# Tudela LA FC G05 white



## JE1212Y (Nov 8, 2022)

Anyone hear about Tudela LA FC G05 White got caught cheating with college players and non league players?  So Cal League took away all their wins and they had to pay a huge fine from what I heard.


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## RedCard (Nov 8, 2022)

JE1212Y said:


> Anyone hear about Tudela LA FC G05 White got caught cheating with college players and non league players?  So Cal League took away all their wins and they had to pay a huge fine from what I heard.


The U17 (06) team got all their wins taken away also.


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## JE1212Y (Nov 8, 2022)

Same coach for both teams.


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## Code (Nov 8, 2022)

RedCard said:


> The U17 (06) team got all their wins taken away also.


That team is actually the Tudela White 2007 team playing up in the 2006 bracket.  They absolutely dominated the 2007 NPL last year, and recently were given access to participate in GA events.  Not a good look for the club or the GA if they continue to give them a special exemption to participate.  Can't help but question thier exceptional record from 2020 and 2021 now.


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## VanMan (Nov 8, 2022)

Looks like 20 forfeits entered across two teams.  Implication is $10k in fines, likely long term suspension or outright ban from SoCal.  Irreparable reputational damage.


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## KJR (Nov 8, 2022)

We believe we know who started and is trying to spread this rumor. It's so absurd it's almost not worth responding, but I feel obligated to say something in defense of the club.

Our 05s and 07s both went undefeated and won their SOCAL Discovery NPL divisions (the 07s played up as 06s.) Neither team used college or non-league players (but the girls are flattered--thanks.) Both qualified for the playoff this weekend, however neither team was going to be available to play in Colorado next July. Our 05s will have graduated high school; some will have jobs, some will be traveling, and some will be preparing for their college preseasons. We have a small team, so losing even a couple of players makes it impractical for us to compete. Our 07s will be in a GA showcase next summer, and it's a financial burden for those families to do two travel events back-to-back. 

We could have just played this weekend, maybe/probably gone through, then pulled out of nationals early next year. But, in an effort to be respectful to the league (and to the other teams in our divisions) we informed Michelle Chesters that we would rather give the second place teams the opportunity to take our spots. Michelle's response was to inform us that we had violated the terms of our commitment to NPL and that she would forfeit all of our games. Shortly after, we saw both of our teams' records flipped. I could post the emails but will refrain for now.

I appreciate that Michelle has a duty to protect her league. For two years, that has been our interest as well. We've done two hour drives to beat teams 11-0 on crap fields with one ref with no complaint. We let SOCAL use our highlights on their socials and have tried to represent the league as well as we could. When our girls went through college recruiting at schools like Notre Dame, Princeton, and TCU, playing in Discovery NPL was something they had to overcome. They had to prove their quality _despite_ the league, because the top college programs just want to see ECNL or GA. But, again, we protected SOCAL.

But we also have a duty to our families—many of whom have very limited financial means—to provide the best possible platform for our players who want to play in college and beyond. Despite its best intentions (and sales pitch) SOCAL Discovery NPL is not a college scout magnet. If our 07s can only take one trip next summer, we _have_ to choose the one that will feature the highest level of competition and exposure. Anything less would be sacrificing our players’ dreams out of loyalty to a league that forfeited some of our games this year when LAUSD canceled all its permits--without giving us a chance to reschedule them.

As I've said here before, we're a small club doing our best to do youth soccer better. We're not perfect, but we try to do things the right way. That's why we reached out to Michelle _before _this weekend, rather than wait until afterwards. Although I guess we could have just gone to Silverlakes and told the girls to tank the game on Saturday. Would that have been a better message? 

Ultimately, our club is fine. We have some extraordinary girls who develop into incredible soccer players. Again, nice to know we can be accused of cheating by teams who lose to us when our Notre Dame and Princeton recruits aren't even playing. So the people who have been punished by this are the girls, who worked hard, played fair, and went undefeated--and don't understand why their records now say the opposite.

But youth soccer is all about the kids, right? 

(@Dominic, if I can prove that this is all bullshit, can we remove this ridiculous, borderline libelous thread?)


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## NorCalUSN (Nov 9, 2022)

KJR said:


> We believe we know who started and is trying to spread this rumor. It's so absurd it's almost not worth responding, but I feel obligated to say something in defense of the club.
> 
> Our 05s and 07s both went undefeated and won their SOCAL Discovery NPL divisions (the 07s played up as 06s.) Neither team used college or non-league players (but the girls are flattered--thanks.) Both qualified for the playoff this weekend, however neither team was going to be available to play in Colorado next July. Our 05s will have graduated high school; some will have jobs, some will be traveling, and some will be preparing for their college preseasons. We have a small team, so losing even a couple of players makes it impractical for us to compete. Our 07s will be in a GA showcase next summer, and it's a financial burden for those families to do two travel events back-to-back.
> 
> ...


KJR,
I've seen a lot of your videos on different social media platforms and I truly believe you and your club are playing on a field that really is stacked against you. I was interested when I saw this message earlier in the day and tried to find more information online.  I am glad you took the time to clear things up on here.  There are a lot of trolls and anonymous posters who love to take down a team.  I salute you and your club I hope for a better outcome for your girls.

Keep doing what you do,"Haters going to Hate" (I so hate trying to share slang words that as a 52 year old man I have no business using but I think it's pretty appropriate.)


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## toucan (Nov 9, 2022)

KJR gives a good explanation, and I don't believe anybody at Tudela cheated.  But let's be clear.  When Tudela signed its teams up for the Discovery League, it knew what commitment was expected.  It knew that there were travel requirements which could be costly.  It knew that some of its players were older or aging out, and perhaps could not conveniently attend all events.  It knew it had smaller rosters, which put it at risk for being unable to compete in some events.  And it knew the consequences of refusing to participate.

KJR's comments - largely devoted to maligning the Discovery League - do not address the Club's own failure to take steps to increase its participation at mandatory events.  For example, the Club could have increased its rosters for its Discovery League teams at any time before or during the gaming season.   And it has about 7 months to find players for the mandatory summer tournament.  The Club has a lot of tryout players.  Its teams regularly play many of their players up from lower-aged teams.  The Club could easily have increased participation by taking additional try-out players and adding them to the roster.  Or, it could have added some of their younger players to the NPL rosters.

I sympathize with Tudela's situation.  The Club desires to play in the ECNL but cannot gain access, so it is stuck in the Discovery League, which it disdains.  But if you are going to play in a league, you need to follow the rules and accept the consequences when you don't.

Here, Tudela gained associate status with the GA at some point *after* it put teams in the Discovery League. Now it is favoring a GA tournament over a Discovery League tournament. I get it; Tudela believes the GA tournament will give it greater exposure. Still, Tudela made a conscious choice to turn its back on a prior commitment.


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## KJR (Nov 9, 2022)

NorCalUSN said:


> KJR,
> I've seen a lot of your videos on different social media platforms and I truly believe you and your club are playing on a field that really is stacked against you. I was interested when I saw this message earlier in the day and tried to find more information online.  I am glad you took the time to clear things up on here.  There are a lot of trolls and anonymous posters who love to take down a team.  I salute you and your club I hope for a better outcome for your girls.
> 
> Keep doing what you do,"Haters going to Hate" (I so hate trying to share slang words that as a 52 year old man I have no business using but I think it's pretty appropriate.)


Thank you for this, and as someone your age may I just add: "word up."


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## RedCard (Nov 9, 2022)

Being able to survive as a small club is very hard to do nowadays. It's just a matter of time before every club has a Surf, Legends, or Slammers crest on their jersey. My daughter was part of a "small club" called SoCal Academy a few years back and us along with Tudela were considered to be a top Non-ECNL and Non-DA clubs out there in Southern California during that time. Then our nice small club got gobbled up by the Surf franchise to become part of LA Surf, which destroyed our once great small club. Now, at least for my daughter's old team, everyone is spread out over different clubs. What could of been, no one will ever know.
I do applaud them for surviving as a small club in a land of giants. 
Don't give into the mega clubs. 
I'm sure this was a very difficult decision for them to make.
Go luck to your players moving on to play college.


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## KJR (Nov 9, 2022)

toucan said:


> KJR gives a good explanation, and I don't believe anybody at Tudela cheated.  But let's be clear.  When Tudela signed its teams up for the Discovery League, it knew what commitment was expected.  It knew that there were travel requirements which could be costly.  It knew that some of its players were older or aging out, and perhaps could not conveniently attend all events.  It knew it had smaller rosters, which put it at risk for being unable to compete in some events.  And it knew the consequences of refusing to participate.
> 
> KJR's comments - largely devoted to maligning the Discovery League - do not address the Club's own failure to take steps to increase its participation at mandatory events.  For example, the Club could have increased its rosters for its Discovery League teams at any time before or during the gaming season.   And it has about 7 months to find players for the mandatory summer tournament.  The Club has a lot of tryout players.  Its teams regularly play many of their players up from lower-aged teams.  The Club could easily have increased participation by taking additional try-out players and adding them to the roster.  Or, it could have added some of their younger players to the NPL rosters.
> 
> ...


I think, ultimately, the blame is with youth soccer: the fragmented, siloed landscape where teams (and kids) are given or withheld opportunities based on where they live/who they know/how much money they have. We're navigating the best way we can for our kids, and sometimes that bumps up against one of the silos.

We absolutely knew what commitment was expected from Discovery. If we won the division, we'd qualify for a playoff. So should we have put our girls in Flight 1 and beaten everyone 10-0 (doing nothing for our own development and making a lot of teams mad) because we _might _win? Okay, so we choose Discovery and we do win. Now it's a financial and family decision. Last year, the 05s qualified for Colorado but also had the opportunity to play in PDA's ECNL event in New Jersey. We could only afford one; we picked the one with sidelines full of coaches and several of our girls got college offers that weekend. (And when I contacted NPL to tell them we were declining the invitation to play, their response was, almost literally, "No worries. We get it.") As a small club going through its first recruitment experience, that was 100% the right decision. Our 07s, on the other hand, stretched their time and budgets almost to a breaking point to go to Colorado and played in front of no one. So where should the 07s, now beginning their own recruiting cycle, spend their time next summer?

I'm glad you think it's easy to just "increase participation at mandatory events." We already had 07s playing up with the 05s for some games this year when our 05s had college commitments (one of those 07s was probably the "college player" who so intimidated the original posters here. She's a 9th grader.) Two issues we've run into: one, if you just add people to your team who can't play your style, you're diluting your style. Why should we pad our roster with girls who shouldn't be on it for the privilege of spending thousands of dollars to go to an event where we won't look or play like ourselves? And second: do you know a lot of high school seniors whose parents want to spend that money so their daughter can guest with girls they don't know for five days in an event no college coach will attend?

Re: the GA. When we moved from Coast (after winning State Cup two years in a row and not losing any games) to SOCAL, it was to improve the competition for our girls. We appreciate the growing pains of a new league and lived through them with no complaint. We also appreciate that SOCAL made adjustments after the first season to improve the league. We don't disdain it; and it's been very good for most of our teams. But we were recommended to the GA, who invited our 05s and 07s to guest in their spring showcase this year. We did well, and those teams were offered event status. If anyone here would have turned that down then you shouldn't be running a club.

Again, our duty is ultimately to our kids. I personally like Michelle; but playing in her league doesn't mean our interests always align. And she had the option to say, "Look, I'm disappointed but I get it. Please pay a fine for skipping the playoff and I'll let the second place team know they can go." Instead she humiliated our girls, taking their achievement away and opening them up to, frankly, the bullshit on this thread. That is the only part of this I disdain.


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## KJR (Nov 9, 2022)

RedCard said:


> Being able to survive as a small club is very hard to do nowadays. It's just a matter of time before every club has a Surf, Legends, or Slammers crest on their jersey. My daughter was part of a "small club" called SoCal Academy a few years back and us along with Tudela were considered to be a top Non-ECNL and Non-DA clubs out there in Southern California during that time. Then our nice small club got gobbled up by the Surf franchise to become part of LA Surf, which destroyed our once great small club. Now, at least for my daughter's old team, everyone is spread out over different clubs. What could of been, no one will ever know.
> I do applaud them for surviving as a small club in a land of giants.
> Don't give into the mega clubs.
> I'm sure this was a very difficult decision for them to make.
> Go luck to your players moving on to play college.


You guys had a terrific team, great families, great coach (who Jacob likes a lot.) Yes, absolutely: you should have been able to stay together as we did. Thanks for the well wishes and all the best to yours, too.


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## Code (Nov 9, 2022)

KJR said:


> We believe we know who started and is trying to spread this rumor. It's so absurd it's almost not worth responding, but I feel obligated to say something in defense of the club.
> 
> Our 05s and 07s both went undefeated and won their SOCAL Discovery NPL divisions (the 07s played up as 06s.) Neither team used college or non-league players (but the girls are flattered--thanks.) Both qualified for the playoff this weekend, however neither team was going to be available to play in Colorado next July. Our 05s will have graduated high school; some will have jobs, some will be traveling, and some will be preparing for their college preseasons. We have a small team, so losing even a couple of players makes it impractical for us to compete. Our 07s will be in a GA showcase next summer, and it's a financial burden for those families to do two travel events back-to-back.
> 
> ...



If this is the reality of what happened, and I do believe this is probably true, I appologize for my hasty assumption that your teams were caught cheating based on rumors without hearing the otherside of the story first.  Your club and team made the right, and honorable decision to let the second place teams countinue on in your place.  Also the right decision for your girls to participate in confliciting GA/ECNL events.  In no way should your teams face any negative reprucusions from SOCAL.  Keeping teams that perform like yours in the NPL should be SOCAL's number 1 priority, if they truly want to compete with the ECNL/GA for top talent teams.  I agree, the thread should be removed.


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Nov 9, 2022)

Were your girls really humiliated by them changing the scores afterward?  It's only us crazy ass parents checking the scoring sites daily.  They will remember their wins and that they were told they won the league.  What happened afterward is paperwork.

And I don't think what you did is wrong whatsoever.  You were promised a league that would attract the attention of scouts.  That side of the agreement was broken, so you needed to break your side.  Seems fair.

I applaud your club and its mission.  Don't let a few anonymous posters here spoil your day.


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## KJR (Nov 9, 2022)

Code said:


> If this is the reality of what happened, and I do believe this is probably true, I appologize for my hasty assumption that your teams were caught cheating based on rumors without hearing the otherside of the story first.  Your club and team made the right, and honorable decision to let the second place teams countinue on in your place.  Also the right decision for your girls to participate in confliciting GA/ECNL events.  In no way should your teams face any negative reprucusions from SOCAL.  Keeping teams that perform like yours in the NPL should be SOCAL's number 1 priority, if they truly want to compete with the ECNL/GA for top talent teams.  I agree, the thread should be removed.


Thank you -- that is really appreciated.


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Nov 9, 2022)

Code said:


> If this is the reality of what happened, and I do believe this is probably true, I appologize for my hasty assumption that your teams were caught cheating based on rumors without hearing the otherside of the story first.  Your club and team made the right, and honorable decision to let the second place teams countinue on in your place.  Also the right decision for your girls to participate in confliciting GA/ECNL events.  In no way should your teams face any negative reprucusions from SOCAL.  Keeping teams that perform like yours in the NPL should be SOCAL's number 1 priority, if they truly want to compete with the ECNL/GA for top talent teams.  I agree, the thread should be removed.


I think if the title can't be changed, then it could be removed.  But I'm loving the truth that is coming out


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## dad4 (Nov 9, 2022)

toucan said:


> KJR gives a good explanation, and I don't believe anybody at Tudela cheated.  But let's be clear.  When Tudela signed its teams up for the Discovery League, it knew what commitment was expected.  It knew that there were travel requirements which could be costly.  It knew that some of its players were older or aging out, and perhaps could not conveniently attend all events.  It knew it had smaller rosters, which put it at risk for being unable to compete in some events.  And it knew the consequences of refusing to participate.
> 
> KJR's comments - largely devoted to maligning the Discovery League - do not address the Club's own failure to take steps to increase its participation at mandatory events.  For example, the Club could have increased its rosters for its Discovery League teams at any time before or during the gaming season.   And it has about 7 months to find players for the mandatory summer tournament.  The Club has a lot of tryout players.  Its teams regularly play many of their players up from lower-aged teams.  The Club could easily have increased participation by taking additional try-out players and adding them to the roster.  Or, it could have added some of their younger players to the NPL rosters.
> 
> ...


I can’t really fault anyone for changing leagues.   Just about every single club down there was willing to ditch cal south when the time was right. 

It would be worse if Tudela kept the NPL commitment by finding replacements.   To read the posts, there is a second place team which deserves the slot.  You can’t just pass them over.


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## KJR (Nov 9, 2022)

Soccer Dad & Ref said:


> Were your girls really humiliated by them changing the scores afterward?  It's only us crazy ass parents checking the scoring sites daily.  They will remember their wins and that they were told they won the league.  What happened afterward is paperwork.
> 
> And I don't think what you did is wrong whatsoever.  You were promised a league that would attract the attention of scouts.  That side of the agreement was broken, so you needed to break your side.  Seems fair.
> 
> I applaud your club and its mission.  Don't let a few anonymous posters here spoil your day.


Thanks for that. And while I agree with you, I tried the "No one can take away what you accomplished" thing... didn't go over well 

I think for the girls who are finishing their club careers, it stings that their legacy has been questioned. My kid is the last of the original group who met up with Jacob in Pan Pacific Park as 8-year-olds; she's proud of what we've/they've accomplished and it bums her out that the record doesn't reflect it anymore. Or that, on or off this board, people may whisper that "something shady" happened. There's also a potential effect from the rankings hit the teams will take. Not a big issue for our girls, but if the 07s enter an event that doesn't know our club (or if a college coach who doesn't know us looks them up) it's now a thing that needs to be explained. Not the biggest issue (and I think it's affecting our parents more than the girls!) but it's more collateral damage from what, to me, was an overly-punitive reaction by SOCAL.


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## toucan (Nov 9, 2022)

Code said:


> Also the right decision for your girls to participate in confliciting GA/ECNL events.  In no way should your teams face any negative reprucusions from SOCAL.  Keeping teams that perform like yours in the NPL should be SOCAL's number 1 priority, if they truly want to compete with the ECNL/GA for top talent teams.


I would go the other way on this.  From the Discovery League's perspective, I would drop Tudela's teams because KJR, who is Tudela's social media voice, suggests it is a crappy league which Tudela is only using until it is accepted into a better platform, and that its event-status with the GA constitutes that better platform.  

Likewise, if I were Tudela, I would drop out of the Discovery League, because it views it as a third-class league behind the ECNL and the GA.  Despite KJR's protests, Tudela *does* disdain the league, and that can be verified by his own comments:

they beat teams 11-0 on crap fields;
they have to prove their quality _despite_ the league, because the top college programs just want to see ECNL or GA;
its not a college scout magnet;
they owe a duty to their players to find a better platform.
KJR says that Tudela strives to always do the right thing.  *Prove it*.  Do the right thing and remove *all* of your teams from the Discovery League. You hate it. You think it is a bad fit. You don't want to follow its rules. And then you complain when the rules are enforced after your non-compliance.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Nov 9, 2022)

KJR said:


> Again, our duty is ultimately to our kids. I personally like Michelle; but playing in her league doesn't mean our interests always align. And she had the option to say, "Look, I'm disappointed but I get it. Please pay a fine for skipping the playoff and I'll let the second place team know they can go." Instead she humiliated our girls, taking their achievement away and opening them up to, frankly, the bullshit on this thread. That is the only part of this I disdain.


It is customary when a team drops that all of the results are set to 0-1 so that the remainder of teams records are trued up.  I'm surprised that this sounds like this is the second year in a row that this happened?  Perhaps some honest communication between the league and club prior to the start of the current season could have helped address this situation.  I do believe that Tudela is a good club overall...probably sounds like GA for all their U13 and older teams would be a better fit.


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Nov 9, 2022)

toucan said:


> I would go the other way on this.  From the Discovery League's perspective, I would drop Tudela's teams because KJR, who is Tudela's social media voice, suggests it is a crappy league which Tudela is only using until it is accepted into a better platform, and that its event-status with the GA constitutes that better platform.
> 
> Likewise, if I were Tudela, I would drop out of the Discovery League, because it views it as a third-class league behind the ECNL and the GA.  Despite KJR's protests, Tudela *does* disdain the league, and that can be verified by his own comments:
> 
> ...


I really hate some of the stuff our country does, so I bitch and moan sometimes.  Regardless of what some backward people say, no, I won't leave it. just because we criticize, doesn't mean we're done with something.


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Nov 9, 2022)

KJR said:


> Thanks for that. And while I agree with you, I tried the "No one can take away what you accomplished" thing... didn't go over well
> 
> I think for the girls who are finishing their club careers, it stings that their legacy has been questioned. My kid is the last of the original group who met up with Jacob in Pan Pacific Park as 8-year-olds; she's proud of what we've/they've accomplished and it bums her out that the record doesn't reflect it anymore. Or that, on or off this board, people may whisper that "something shady" happened. There's also a potential effect from the rankings hit the teams will take. Not a big issue for our girls, but if the 07s enter an event that doesn't know our club (or if a college coach who doesn't know us looks them up) it's now a thing that needs to be explained. Not the biggest issue (and I think it's affecting our parents more than the girls!) but it's more collateral damage from what, to me, was an overly-punitive reaction by SOCAL.


Didn't consider the rankings thing.  Good point.  I think it's worth a fight to get the scores replaced, but the standings could updated instead to show they were losses.  This was not like a forfeit because of illegal players, etc.


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## KJR (Nov 9, 2022)

toucan said:


> I would go the other way on this.  From the Discovery League's perspective, I would drop Tudela's teams because KJR, who is Tudela's social media voice, suggests it is a crappy league which Tudela is only using until it is accepted into a better platform, and that its event-status with the GA constitutes that better platform.
> 
> Likewise, if I were Tudela, I would drop out of the Discovery League, because it views it as a third-class league behind the ECNL and the GA.  Despite KJR's protests, Tudela *does* disdain the league, and that can be verified by his own comments:
> 
> ...


Hi Bob.

I'm the Club President, not its "social media voice." And I think I've been quite candid and balanced re: SOCAL. It's new, it's doing its best, it's a good circuit for most of our teams, it can't provide the competition or exposure that top teams deserve and require. I know you're unfamiliar with what top teams deserve and require. 

Don't worry, though. We no longer have any teams in Discovery. We'll survive; so will Discovery. I hope you will, too.


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## KJR (Nov 9, 2022)

dad4 said:


> I can’t really fault anyone for changing leagues.   Just about every single club down there was willing to ditch cal south when the time was right.
> 
> It would be worse if Tudela kept the NPL commitment by finding replacements.   To read the posts, there is a second place team which deserves the slot.  You can’t just pass them over.


We felt the same way. Our 05s and 07s have opportunities that no other club in SOCAL has; that's just a fact. Playing for an NPL title is an incredible honor, but if we can't do it with our own players then we want one of the good teams in our league, who we respect, to go.


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## toucan (Nov 9, 2022)

KJR said:


> Hi Bob.
> 
> I'm the Club President, not its "social media voice." And I think I've been quite candid and balanced re: SOCAL. It's new, it's doing its best, it's a good circuit for most of our teams, it can't provide the competition or exposure that top teams deserve and require. I know you're unfamiliar with what top teams deserve and require.
> 
> Don't worry, though. We no longer have any teams in Discovery. We'll survive; so will Discovery. I hope you will, too.


Ahh ... now you are raising the stakes to make it personal by naming me and denigrating my teams.[*]  And just a few posts ago you were patting yourself on the back for always trying to do the right thing.

I view your response as juvenile, and it suggests my arguments resonate.  Otherwise you would not stoop to that level of rhetoric.

If your club is really leaving the Discovery League, then that is the right decision, and I applaud your club for taking the step.  I wish your club and your teams all the best in the future.

(*For the record, my current G2009 team is being promoted into the Discovery League next year, having taken 1st place in its Flight 1 bracket.  We don't claim to be the best of all possible teams, but I am very proud of its players and their performance.)


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## lafalafa (Nov 9, 2022)

Change the title to " MC does another small club dirty'" in the Socal league. She is one vindictive person that has done this to others also. 

No wonder their under legal investigation by at least 2 different law firms for other potential dirty dealings.

She and the league should be audited for potential non profit violations, PPP abuse, and other legal irregularities.   Who is taking six figure salaries for there association with entities that participate, Quid pro quo? I dunno let's check those 990 of those tournaments hosts, leagues, etc.

US club Soccer might be interested to find this out since NPL post season is always optional and not forced mandatory, maybe time to look at moving NPL out of the SoCal league to something less partial that doesn't penalizes teams that can't afford to travel.  

Shame really as the SoCal league shows promise only to turn against its own smaller members and continue on that destructive cycle that caused them to switch in the first place.




toucan said:


> I would go the other way on this.  From the Discovery League's perspective, I would drop Tudela's teams because KJR, who is Tudela's social media voice, suggests it is a crappy league which Tudela is only using until it is accepted into a better platform, and that its event-status with the GA constitutes that better platform.
> 
> Likewise, if I were Tudela, I would drop out of the Discovery League, because it views it as a third-class league behind the ECNL and the GA.  Despite KJR's protests, Tudela *does* disdain the league, and that can be verified by his own comments:
> 
> ...


No but nice try on spinning your own version of reality.


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 9, 2022)

No skin in this one but wanted to comment that Tudela has done an amazing job representing themselves online.

Also changing games to forfeits seem heavy handed + possibly vindictive. Leagues might want to take a step back and reevaluate what they're doing + why they're doing it. Frustrating clubs to the point where they leave your league then burning any kind of bridge that might bring them back in the future is not good business. 

Also for every Tudela making a move there's probably 3-4 watching closely to see how how things turn out. What they're seeing is to expect a nasty breakup which in general will make them go all in on decisions vs negotiating.


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## michael91208 (Nov 9, 2022)

toucan said:


> KJR gives a good explanation, and I don't believe anybody at Tudela cheated.  But let's be clear.  When Tudela signed its teams up for the Discovery League, it knew what commitment was expected.  It knew that there were travel requirements which could be costly.  It knew that some of its players were older or aging out, and perhaps could not conveniently attend all events.  It knew it had smaller rosters, which put it at risk for being unable to compete in some events.  And it knew the consequences of refusing to participate.
> 
> KJR's comments - largely devoted to maligning the Discovery League - do not address the Club's own failure to take steps to increase its participation at mandatory events.  For example, the Club could have increased its rosters for its Discovery League teams at any time before or during the gaming season.   And it has about 7 months to find players for the mandatory summer tournament.  The Club has a lot of tryout players.  Its teams regularly play many of their players up from lower-aged teams.  The Club could easily have increased participation by taking additional try-out players and adding them to the roster.  Or, it could have added some of their younger players to the NPL rosters.
> 
> ...


Tudela FC LA received event status before the SoCal registration. All Tudela teams were given this status, but not all teams were ready. It’s not about the labels, it’s about the players. 

The ‘07 team was the only team allowed to move up in age bracket in a sincere effort to compete, we really wanted it to work. In retrospect, we could have applied for the U19 division, but with 2008 players on the roster it would have been probably too much.

Even if discussed earlier, the agreement all NPL teams were compelled to sign for post season play was sent out seven days before the first game, two months after the brackets locked. I know this because I was the one who had to sign it.  Besides, enforcing this last minute “Contract of Adhesion” could be challenging in California . . .


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## KJR (Nov 9, 2022)

In the interest of closure (I hope), the title of this thread is inaccurate. I truly appreciate the support so many of you have shown; I think most people are trying to provide a fun, safe, successful environment for kids to play the game. There are a lot of obstacles, and the real "villain" of the story is a youth sports culture that is often driven more by profit than development.

In SoCal, particularly, it's ridiculous that our U8s drive 3-4 hours for a one-hour game in Bakersfield; and if they can't go the club pays a $500 fine. Not blaming SOCAL, but the way our area has been carved up and walled-off by various leagues makes it incredibly difficult for clubs and families. I've written this here before, but during the Covid shutdown it would have been great for SoCal to do a _Das Reboot _and make our region an equitable, self-sufficient youth soccer powerhouse. But that would have required too many...special interests to give up too much profit. And that's another thread.

So we navigate as best we can, being as transparent as possible. We didn't disrespect our opponents by tanking games to avoid all of this; we didn't disrespect our league by bailing at the last minute with some made-up emergencies. No one would have blinked at the second-place team showing up to play on Saturday, had this been handled discreetly by SOCAL. Instead, we've been accused of stuff that could critically damage a lot of independent clubs. 

I'm glad we've done enough over the years to, I hope, move past this in a morning. I'd still like SOCAL to reconsider their reaction, restore our records, and charge us a fine for dropping out. That would, appropriately, punish the club and not the players. And I'd still like this thread to be deleted; it's an insulting title, and whoever started it should give some thought as to why they did it.


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## ajaxahi (Nov 9, 2022)

Tudela 05 parent here, not an official TFC rep, and looonnnngggg time poster.  Man the haters really came out of the woodwork!  Hey haters, hey JE1212Y and Toucan (ahem), who obviously have an agenda but hide behind keyboards and screen names, NOPE… no cheating, no non-league players, no college players (except for the ones that will be playing in college next year!).  Just 12 amazing field players (no mass substitutions here lol!!!) and two awesome goalies who worked their asses off this Fall (and dealt with missing players due to college trips, illness and injury thanks to the help of our two hero TFC 07s) to WIN the Socal 2005 Discovery NPL North division, playing beautiful, entertaining, distinctive possession soccer, with off the charts levels of skill, IQ, and style. 

For the core of this team, this was the culmination of a journey that started at this club when they were silly 8 year olds, when coach Tudela first started teaching them to do skills moves and play possession while other teams racked up wins booting the ball to their big forward.  This is what Jacob had in mind when it all started.  Hey you incredible 05 TFC young ladies, they can try to take your achievements away in a fit of petty vindictiveness, but as long as this thread, that started with baseless accusations and rumors from jealous grownups (yes grownups!!!), is still up, let everybody see your season for what it was, a beautiful success…


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## toucan (Nov 9, 2022)

ajaxahi said:


> Tudela 05 parent here, not an official TFC rep, and looonnnngggg time poster.  Man the haters really came out of the woodwork!  Hey haters, hey JE1212Y and Toucan (ahem), who obviously have an agenda but hide behind keyboards and screen names,
> 
> Hey you incredible 05 TFC young ladies, they can try to take your achievements away in a fit of petty vindictiveness, but as long as this thread, that started with baseless accusations and rumors from jealous grownups (yes grownups!!!), is still up, let everybody see your season for what it was, a beautiful success…
> 
> View attachment 15029


Obviously you did not read my posts carefully.  For example, I did not accuse Tudela of cheating.  I specifically said I did not believe they cheated at anything.  My point is that if you sign up for a league and disregard the rules, then you should expect consequences and accept them when they come.  That's all.

KJR feels differently.  He admits that the club knew what its obligations were, but it could get more exposure elsewhere.  And this, in KJR's mind, justifies its decision to violate the league's rules.

In KJR's opinion the League was too harsh in forfeiting games previously played by the Tudela squads.  Personally, I agree with him.  But a Club which intentionally violates the league's rules doesn't get to select its punishment.  I don't doubt that Tudela's decision was correct in terms of its own self-interest.  I just think that Tudela ought to accept consequences without complaint.  And also, because KJR - the President of the Club - expressed such disdain for the league, I suggested that the best thing for the Club to do was to leave the league.  It turns out that he agreed on the last point.

KJR then lashed out by identifying me and criticizing my own teams.  That responds to no argument presented by me.  It was juvenile and spiteful.

You suggest I am hiding my identity behind a keyboard.  You are wrong.  I have identified myself many times on this Board, which might be how KJR knows my identity.  My name is Robert Woodbury.  Do you have the same courage?  What is your name?

Finally, I am very familiar with Tudela's teams and many of its players.  I respect them and have nothing negative to say about any one of them.  I wish them the best.


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## MacDre (Nov 9, 2022)

toucan said:


> Obviously you did not read my posts carefully.  For example, I did not accuse Tudela of cheating.  I specifically said I did not believe they cheated at anything.  My point is that if you sign up for a league and disregard the rules, then you should expect consequences and accept them when they come.  That's all.
> 
> KJR feels differently.  He admits that the club knew what its obligations were, but its could get more exposure elsewhere.  And this, in KJR's mind, justifies its decision to violate the league's rules.
> 
> ...


FYI, none of your post have been compelling. You’re coming off as a toxic narrow-minded HATER because your analysis ignores the fact that there was only good will and no evil intent here!


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## Kicker4Life (Nov 9, 2022)

KJR said:


> Thank you for this, and as someone your age may I just add: "word up."


I believe you and the club has more Fans than Haters!  Just that the Haters tend to be the loudest.  
Keep up the good work!


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## ajaxahi (Nov 9, 2022)

toucan said:


> Obviously you did not read my posts carefully.  For example, I did not accuse Tudela of cheating.  I specifically said I did not believe they cheated at anything.  My point is that if you sign up for a league and disregard the rules, then you should expect consequences and accept them when they come.  That's all.
> 
> KJR feels differently.  He admits that the club knew what its obligations were, but its could get more exposure elsewhere.  And this, in KJR's mind, justifies its decision to violate the league's rules.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your courage Bob. I already identified myself as an 05 TFC parent, that should suffice as I have a daughter on the team. I’m sure you understand.  You, however, have yet to identify who you are affiliated with.  Might shed some light on things, hm?

I never said you in particular accused TFC of cheating (that was JE1212Y who started this thread), but you were all too happy to pile on and criticize the club and mischaracterize KJR’s explanations as disdain for the league, rather than just the plain facts they are.


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## toucan (Nov 9, 2022)

ajaxahi said:


> Thanks for your courage Bob. I already identified myself as an 05 TFC parent, that should suffice as I have a daughter on the team. I’m sure you understand.  You, however, have yet to identify who you are affiliated with.  Might shed some light on things, hm?
> 
> I never said you in particular accused TFC of cheating (that was JE1212Y who started this thread), but you were all too happy to pile on and criticize the club and mischaracterize KJR’s explanations as disdain for the league, rather than just the plain facts they are.


G2009 So Cal Blues Pasadena


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## chipmonk (Nov 9, 2022)

toucan said:


> I would go the other way on this.  From the Discovery League's perspective, I would drop Tudela's teams because KJR, who is Tudela's social media voice, suggests it is a crappy league which Tudela is only using until it is accepted into a better platform, and that its event-status with the GA constitutes that better platform.
> 
> Likewise, if I were Tudela, I would drop out of the Discovery League, because it views it as a third-class league behind the ECNL and the GA.  Despite KJR's protests, Tudela *does* disdain the league, and that can be verified by his own comments:
> 
> ...


I am not affiliated with Tudela, we have just played their 07 team many times over the years.

This year, 07 Discovery has been pretty awful. Most games have had a single ref. A couple games have had 2 refs. 0 games have had the full 3. That’s not OK at this age and this competitive level. And yes, some of the fields have been bad.

Last season was fine with all games at silverlakes/oceanside.

Socal has also been vindictive against the clubs that took their NPL teams to E64 so it doesn’t surprise me that they chose the vindictive route with Tudela instead of thanking them for making the league stronger.

The discovery league is worse off without them and the second/third place teams are worse off without stronger competition to play against.


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## RedCard (Nov 9, 2022)

KJR said:


> I think most people are trying to provide a fun, safe, successful environment for kids to play the game. There are a lot of obstacles, and the real "villain" of the story is a youth sports culture that is often driven more by profit than development.


This is the most honest statement ever. Youth soccer is driven more by profit than development, especially with the stupid "stay and play" policies that most tournaments have now (looking at you Surf Sports). I'm just glad this is my last season in which my kids are involved in youth soccer. 

One other statement involving how this topic started. It's easy to say that a team cheated when the league takes all the wins and draws away and changes them all to a 0-1 lost. Most everyone who's been in youth soccer for a long time knows right a way that this is a "forfeit score". The problem I have is that most of the teams we played this season (and last season) used ineligible players all season long and SoCal did nothing about it. Last game, we played a mega club team that brought in players from one of their sister clubs which played that day also. The week before that, the team brought in players from their E64 team. Had a team earlier that brought a couple ECNL players to play the game. Almost every game had write ins on the roster. I'm sure every knows that a coach got suspended for the rest of the season for bring players down to lower level teams then claim that "he didn't know this was against the rules". Hell, the very last game last season (in Silverlakes) that same coach was pulling players (same club) off of the next field to play against us (during the game). And I'm sure Tudela delt with this problem also during the season with other teams.
Tudela was the only team we played this season (and last season) that we knew for a fact this was a team with a legit roster.

SoCal League needs to do a much better job at enforcing the rosters.


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## Brav520 (Nov 9, 2022)

KJR said:


> We felt the same way. Our 05s and 07s have opportunities that no other club in SOCAL has; that's just a fact. Playing for an NPL title is an incredible honor, but if we can't do it with our own players then we want one of the good teams in our league, who we respect, to go.


Ask Simmons to fund the travel expenses , it’s worth a shot


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## michael91208 (Nov 9, 2022)

My 15 year old daughter (Tudela FCLA 2007W) was approached by another player at school today who plays for another club, asking about the 05W team. This girl plays for a club that appears to be where a lot of the speculation is coming from. Had my daughter not heard me talking about this on the phone, she would have been blindsided and potentially humiliated.

It’s bad enough for thoughtless adults to speculate on the lies and rumors, but when it filters down to our kids it’s a whole new level of slime and slander. If we can’t find the source of this crap and snuff it out, we may need a statement from the league and at the very least some kind of public correction. It’s hard to unring this bell. The title of this thread doesn’t help.


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## KJR (Nov 9, 2022)

RedCard said:


> This is the most honest statement ever. Youth soccer is driven more by profit than development, especially with the stupid "stay and play" policies that most tournaments have now (looking at you Surf Sports). I'm just glad this is my last season in which my kids are involved in youth soccer.
> 
> One other statement involving how this topic started. It's easy to say that a team cheated when the league takes all the wins and draws away and changes them all to a 0-1 lost. Most everyone who's been in youth soccer for a long time knows right a way that this is a "forfeit score". The problem I have is that most of the teams we played this season (and last season) used ineligible players all season long and SoCal did nothing about it. Last game, we played a mega club team that brought in players from one of their sister clubs which played that day also. The week before that, the team brought in players from their E64 team. Had a team earlier that brought a couple ECNL players to play the game. Almost every game had write ins on the roster. I'm sure every knows that a coach got suspended for the rest of the season for bring players down to lower level teams then claim that "he didn't know this was against the rules". Hell, the very last game last season (in Silverlakes) that same coach was pulling players (same club) off of the next field to play against us (during the game). And I'm sure Tudela delt with this problem also during the season with other teams.
> Tudela was the only team we played this season (and last season) that we knew for a fact this was a team with a legit roster.
> ...


We ran into this in SOCAL's State Cup last year. A team we were playing in an elimination game brought in a few subs at 20' who seemed... better than the starters. They were from the club's ECNL team. Our girls won anyway, the ECNL girls were frustrated that they couldn't dominate a Discovery game, and the other team's regular players were frustrated that they'd been benched for some "ringers" in a big game.

That team was from the same club that started this thread. But big clubs around here have gotten used to playing by different rules.

Given the questions our kids are now getting about this, I'll be circling back to Michelle and SOCAL tomorrow. @Dominic -- a little help would be appreciated.


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## outside! (Nov 10, 2022)

This entire situation was caused by the creation of ECNL and all the closed leagues that followed. US Soccer allowed this to happen. The old days of USYS and "Earn Your Place" should have continued and been expanded.


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## RedCard (Nov 10, 2022)

KJR said:


> We ran into this in SOCAL's State Cup last year. A team we were playing in an elimination game brought in a few subs at 20' who seemed... better than the starters. They were from the club's ECNL team. Our girls won anyway, the ECNL girls were frustrated that they couldn't dominate a Discovery game, and the other team's regular players were frustrated that they'd been benched for some "ringers" in a big game.
> 
> That team was from the same club that started this thread. But big clubs around here have gotten used to playing by different rules.
> 
> Given the questions our kids are now getting about this, I'll be circling back to Michelle and SOCAL tomorrow. @Dominic -- a little help would be appreciated.


I hope this all gets cleared up for both your 05 and 07 teams. I'll admit that for a couple of hours, I thought (and surprised/shocked) that something "naughty" happened. Again, I was more surprised by this allegation than anything else. I'll glad you came onto the topic and cleared up this wrongful allegation. I for one would like to apologize to you, your parents, and especially to your players for thinking this was true for a couple of hours. A parent from another team within our bracket (who you most likely know) reached out to me to explain what happened with the 05 team before you posted your statement. That's how much respect you and your club have when parents from other clubs come to your defense. Unfortunately, a lot of "hatred and jealousy" do come from others because of your success. Our team gets it also and my daughter's old SoCal Academy team really got it also back in the days. It's just like people hating on the Lakers, Patriots, and Dodgers cause they are/were so successful (Houston Astros do deserve the hate though...).
My daughter has played against your 05 team a total of 6 times, twice with SoCal Academy back a few seasons ago and 4 times with her current team/coach since the comeback from the Covid shutdown. And she always looked forward to these games cause as a keeper, she knew she would get tested all game long by facing many good, hard shots on goal. Games against your team are always learning lessons for all our players cause the game is always 90 minutes of hard play and all players giving 100% on the field.


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## Woodwork (Nov 10, 2022)

outside! said:


> This entire situation was caused by the creation of ECNL and all the closed leagues that followed. US Soccer allowed this to happen. The old days of USYS and "Earn Your Place" should have continued and been expanded.


I don't see a problem with SoCal forfeiting games for a team that effectively drops from NPL participation.  They aren't standing in the way of Tudela participating in the GA event.  I don't believe SoCal folks would be upset about a club taking the opportunity for its top teams to participate in closed leagues when the opportunity knocks.  The clubs that created SCL/SCDSL are the same ones that disinvest in it by placing their top teams in closed leagues.  Disinvestment is implicitly one of the founding principles of the league.

In my opinion, the issue is opacity.  Without clarity on the reasons for forfeits, there is opportunity for speculation to become rumor and for that rumor to become widespread misinformation.  Socal League could footnote the reason for the drop somewhere on the site.


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## focomoso (Nov 10, 2022)

RedCard said:


> It's just like people hating on the Lakers, Patriots, and Dodgers cause they are/were so successful...


"Lakers, Patriots, and Yankees..." Fixed that for ya.

Complete side note, but I saw a truck in the late 90s with a Chicago Bulls, NY Yankees and Dallas Cowboys sticker. That's a guy I don't want to hang out with...


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## KJR (Nov 10, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> I don't see a problem with SoCal forfeiting games for a team that effectively drops from NPL participation.  They aren't standing in the way of Tudela participating in the GA event.  I don't believe SoCal folks would be upset about a club taking the opportunity for its top teams to participate in closed leagues when the opportunity knocks.  The clubs that created SCL/SCDSL are the same ones that disinvest in it by placing their top teams in closed leagues.  Disinvestment is implicitly one of the founding principles of the league.
> 
> In my opinion, the issue is opacity.  Without clarity on the reasons for forfeits, there is opportunity for speculation to become rumor and for that rumor to become widespread misinformation.  Socal League could footnote the reason for the drop somewhere on the site.


According to the SOCAL contract, the sanction for not participating in all the NPL events is _supposed_ to be losing NPL status the following year. Which, fine. We would have taken that hit. Forfeiting the entire season we'd just played was a choice--and, to me, a dangerously short-sighted one because (as you say) it opened the door to speculation.

Our club appreciates the opportunities SOCAL has given us; at the same time, we feel like we've been a pretty good ambassador for the SOCAL brand. We'll have girls playing in top college programs next year; we have girls in national team pools. I don't think the league wants to cast doubt on the integrity of our club, but that's what they've done. We're discussing a remedy.


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## Woodwork (Nov 10, 2022)

KJR said:


> According to the SOCAL contract, the sanction for not participating in all the NPL events is _supposed_ to be losing NPL status the following year. Which, fine. We would have taken that hit. Forfeiting the entire season we'd just played was a choice--and, to me, a dangerously short-sighted one because (as you say) it opened the door to speculation.
> 
> Our club appreciates the opportunities SOCAL has given us; at the same time, we feel like we've been a pretty good ambassador for the SOCAL brand. We'll have girls playing in top college programs next year; we have girls in national team pools. I don't think the league wants to cast doubt on the integrity of our club, but that's what they've done. We're discussing a remedy.


Isn't NPL currently only halfway through the regular season with Spring being the other half?  Will the future games also be forfeited in Spring to, as another poster said, "true it up" because it would otherwise unfairly imbalance the results?

No offense intended to Tudela but it isn't exactly a secret that SCDSL/NPL doesn't provide equivalent college exposure.  The other serious competitor at G07 last year left for Elite 64.  It had to be known Tudela would not have appropriate competition in SCDSL.   I mean, you have to take the GA opportunity when presented, so that's a tough choice that you have to make.  But, I'm not going to Taco Bell and complaining that the nacho cheese is runny.  I chose to eat at Taco Bell and I got Taco Bell.


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## RandomSoccerFan (Nov 10, 2022)

Uninvested party here, but if I were KJR - I'm not even sure I'd worry about getting the games reinstated.  The only rankings system that matters now discounts forfeits entirely, so their teams aren't being penalized ratings-wise - other than not having the wins recorded.  If you look at the tables of what is left, and add the current ratings of all teams, it shows some interesting data.

Here is the 2005 table:



Here is the 2007 table:



Even with their entire SoCal season results erased, their 2007 Girls are still rated higher than every team in the league - all of which are actually 2006.  And with their entire SoCal season results erased, their 2005 Girls remain rated higher than every team in the league save 1.  

Having the league try and punish them by flipping everything to forfeits doesn't really have the effect the league is hoping for.  It's still obvious to all the relative strength of these teams - and they should be wished good luck as they leave the rest of these teams in the rear view.


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## ajaxahi (Nov 10, 2022)

RandomSoccerFan said:


> Uninvested party here, but if I were KJR - I'm not even sure I'd worry about getting the games reinstated.  The only rankings system that matters now discounts forfeits entirely, so their teams aren't being penalized ratings-wise - other than not having the wins recorded.  If you look at the tables of what is left, and add the current ratings of all teams, it shows some interesting data.
> 
> Here is the 2005 table:
> 
> ...


Thanks for this and your point is well taken. However I do want to highlight that at least for the Tudela 05’s, removing their ten fall league Discovery NPL results did make a huge difference in their rankings. Tuesday morning, with all ten actual scores already in the youthsoccerrankings model, the Tudela FC 05’s were ranked #19 in California. By this morning, with those same ten results removed, their CA ranking had dropped from 19 to 85.  Yes they are just rankings and we all take them with a grain of salt, and yes these girls are almost aged out so what does it matter anyway, but people (including college coaches) do look at them and it’s a great accomplishment for our girls to be up there in the rankings with the ECNL teams for the last couple years. They worked hard for it.  Such a shame for it to be taken away just like that.


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## michael91208 (Nov 10, 2022)

ajaxahi said:


> Thanks for this and your point is well taken. However I do want to highlight that at least for the Tudela 05’s, removing their ten fall league Discovery NPL results did make a huge difference in their rankings. Tuesday morning, with all ten actual scores already in the youthsoccerrankings model, the Tudela FC 05’s were ranked #19 in California. By this morning, with those same ten results removed, their CA ranking had dropped from 19 to 85.  Yes they are just rankings and we all take them with a grain of salt, and yes these girls are almost aged out so what does it matter anyway, but people (including college coaches) do look at them and it’s a great accomplishment for our girls to be up there in the rankings with the ECNL teams for the last couple years. They worked hard for it.  Such a shame for it to be taken away just like that.


All good points. I sent a note to Youth Soccer Rankings about the forfeits and he said it would have affected the model so he removed them completely. The problem is that it still dropped the teams about 50 places or so. It was a little frustrating because every time wewon it still dropped our positions because of the team ratings. we will see if at least the original scores can be reported.

I understand a boys team had the same thing happen.


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## RandomSoccerFan (Nov 11, 2022)

ajaxahi said:


> Thanks for this and your point is well taken. However I do want to highlight that at least for the Tudela 05’s, removing their ten fall league Discovery NPL results did make a huge difference in their rankings. Tuesday morning, with all ten actual scores already in the youthsoccerrankings model, the Tudela FC 05’s were ranked #19 in California. By this morning, with those same ten results removed, their CA ranking had dropped from 19 to 85.  Yes they are just rankings and we all take them with a grain of salt, and yes these girls are almost aged out so what does it matter anyway, but people (including college coaches) do look at them and it’s a great accomplishment for our girls to be up there in the rankings with the ECNL teams for the last couple years. They worked hard for it.  Such a shame for it to be taken away just like that.


I certainly get where you're coming from.  If it helps, keep in mind that these rankings are ephemeral anyway, and 7 months after the team plays its last game, the team shows unranked with no rating.  Having the recent games restored for the 05's, and therefore the correct ratings restored, would only be a pretty temporary situation for a team that isn't playing much longer.  The girls know what they accomplished, and will remember that much, much longer than 7 months.  For the 07's - if they are still playing - they will be right back where they belong in the ratings 8-10 games from now.



michael91208 said:


> It was a little frustrating because every time we won it still dropped our positions because of the team ratings. we will see if at least the original scores can be reported.


That's par for the course, in a ratings system that weights team quality by its own performance over time.  A win doesn't mean much if the opponent is significantly inferior.



michael91208 said:


> I understand a boys team had the same thing happen.


I see 3 teams in Discovery (boys) that show similar to what happened to Tudela.

Rangers FC Rangers FC B2009 White NPL Discovery
B08 NPL SD Drop
B08 NPL DROP

All of them show only 0-1 losses.  By the names, it's certainly possible that the last two weren't "real" teams by some point, as all of their opponents were given a 1-0 bye (rather than explicitly saying "forfeit", as with the Rangers).


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## rainbow_unicorn (Nov 11, 2022)

Why do we care about rankings?  I don't think college coaches/scouts care what a team's rank is.


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## Larzby (Nov 11, 2022)

KJR said:


> We believe we know who started and is trying to spread this rumor. It's so absurd it's almost not worth responding, but I feel obligated to say something in defense of the club.
> 
> Our 05s and 07s both went undefeated and won their SOCAL Discovery NPL divisions (the 07s played up as 06s.) Neither team used college or non-league players (but the girls are flattered--thanks.) Both qualified for the playoff this weekend, however neither team was going to be available to play in Colorado next July. Our 05s will have graduated high school; some will have jobs, some will be traveling, and some will be preparing for their college preseasons. We have a small team, so losing even a couple of players makes it impractical for us to compete. Our 07s will be in a GA showcase next summer, and it's a financial burden for those families to do two travel events back-to-back.
> 
> ...


There's no borderline about it. If the above allegations against Tudela are untrue you have a viable case for defamation. It's just crazy how people jump to conclusions based on rumors.


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## Larzby (Nov 11, 2022)

toucan said:


> KJR gives a good explanation, and I don't believe anybody at Tudela cheated.  But let's be clear.  When Tudela signed its teams up for the Discovery League, it knew what commitment was expected.  It knew that there were travel requirements which could be costly.  It knew that some of its players were older or aging out, and perhaps could not conveniently attend all events.  It knew it had smaller rosters, which put it at risk for being unable to compete in some events.  And it knew the consequences of refusing to participate.
> 
> KJR's comments - largely devoted to maligning the Discovery League - do not address the Club's own failure to take steps to increase its participation at mandatory events.  For example, the Club could have increased its rosters for its Discovery League teams at any time before or during the gaming season.   And it has about 7 months to find players for the mandatory summer tournament.  The Club has a lot of tryout players.  Its teams regularly play many of their players up from lower-aged teams.  The Club could easily have increased participation by taking additional try-out players and adding them to the roster.  Or, it could have added some of their younger players to the NPL rosters.
> 
> ...





toucan said:


> KJR gives a good explanation, and I don't believe anybody at Tudela cheated.  But let's be clear.  When Tudela signed its teams up for the Discovery League, it knew what commitment was expected.  It knew that there were travel requirements which could be costly.  It knew that some of its players were older or aging out, and perhaps could not conveniently attend all events.  It knew it had smaller rosters, which put it at risk for being unable to compete in some events.  And it knew the consequences of refusing to participate.
> 
> KJR's comments - largely devoted to maligning the Discovery League - do not address the Club's own failure to take steps to increase its participation at mandatory events.  For example, the Club could have increased its rosters for its Discovery League teams at any time before or during the gaming season.   And it has about 7 months to find players for the mandatory summer tournament.  The Club has a lot of tryout players.  Its teams regularly play many of their players up from lower-aged teams.  The Club could easily have increased participation by taking additional try-out players and adding them to the roster.  Or, it could have added some of their younger players to the NPL rosters.
> 
> ...


Wow, his club (not to mention the children on his teams) were apparently defamed egregiously, and when he posts the truth to correct the record, people blame him for complaining about something that he never would have even brought up except that it became necessary to clear the names of the innocent players on his teams. Tudela - keep fighting the good fight!


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## Larzby (Nov 11, 2022)

toucan said:


> Ahh ... now you are raising the stakes to make it personal by naming me and denigrating my teams.[*]  And just a few posts ago you were patting yourself on the back for always trying to do the right thing.
> 
> I view your response as juvenile, and it suggests my arguments resonate.  Otherwise you would not stoop to that level of rhetoric.
> 
> ...


But you sound like a jerk, to be honest, and the Tudela person sounds reasonable. Maybe take a break from posting for a couple days to cool off.


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## ajaxahi (Nov 11, 2022)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Why do we care about rankings?  I don't think college coaches/scouts care what a team's rank is.


This has already been discussed a lot on the forum over the years, but there’s a bunch of reasons. Rankings are a fun diversion and conversation topic for us parents, and even some of the older players. They can be a useful scouting tool to help size up unfamiliar opponents. And they are used by many tournaments/showcases to seed their brackets. For a small club like Tudela FC that has (until recently) been locked out of the top leagues like ECNL and GA, the rankings are a nice way to measure ourselves against the top teams we might not get to play against. And being highly ranked for a long period of time is a great reward and recognition and lends some legitimacy to our team and club. You might be right about college coaches, but when you are trying to get your kid recruited and they have made the choice to play for a small, lesser known club rather than a ECNL/GA megaclub, trust me, every little bit of legitimacy is huge.


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## RedCard (Nov 11, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> Isn't NPL currently only halfway through the regular season with Spring being the other half?  Will the future games also be forfeited in Spring to, as another poster said, "true it up" because it would otherwise unfairly imbalance the results?
> 
> No offense intended to Tudela but it isn't exactly a secret that SCDSL/NPL doesn't provide equivalent college exposure.  The other serious competitor at G07 last year left for Elite 64.  It had to be known Tudela would not have appropriate competition in SCDSL.   I mean, you have to take the GA opportunity when presented, so that's a tough choice that you have to make.  But, I'm not going to Taco Bell and complaining that the nacho cheese is runny.  I chose to eat at Taco Bell and I got Taco Bell.


No, the older's season has ended with the playoffs this weekend. There is no 2nd half of the season, this is it. After Thanksgiving, the olders break for high school soccer then when that's over, I believe it's the State Cup and tournaments until the end of the school year. Everything basically comes to an end in July for the U19s.


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## Jshwora (Nov 11, 2022)

KJR said:


> In SoCal, particularly, it's ridiculous that our U8s drive 3-4 hours for a one-hour game in Bakersfield; and if they can't go the club pays a $500 fine. Not blaming SOCAL, but the way our area has been carved up and walled-off by various leagues makes it incredibly difficult for clubs and families.


Take it easy on Bakersfield, the travel at ulittles is even more brutal for us   Next time you're up here though hit me up, we've got some good local breweries and a taco spot that I'll put up against anywhere.  Take some of the sting out of the drive.  That being said, I really feel like this whole deal was better when we had pro/rel and everyone played in the same league.  It didn't matter if you were from San Diego, Riverside, Bakersfield, or LA you got to play at the level you had earned.


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## RedCard (Nov 11, 2022)

Jshwora said:


> Take it easy on Bakersfield, the travel at ulittles is even more brutal for us   Next time you're up here though hit me up, we've got some good local breweries and a taco spot that I'll put up against anywhere.  Take some of the sting out of the drive.  That being said, I really feel like this whole deal was better when we had pro/rel and everyone played in the same league.  It didn't matter if you were from San Diego, Riverside, Bakersfield, or LA you got to play at the level you had earned.


You had me at tacos...


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## Woodwork (Nov 11, 2022)

RedCard said:


> No, the older's season has ended with the playoffs this weekend. There is no 2nd half of the season, this is it. After Thanksgiving, the olders break for high school soccer then when that's over, I believe it's the State Cup and tournaments until the end of the school year. Everything basically comes to an end in July for the U19s.


That’s awesome.  Makes me like NPL more.


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## michael91208 (Nov 11, 2022)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Why do we care about rankings?  I don't think college coaches/scouts care what a team's rank is.


It really is important when tournaments assign flights. They don’t have a lot of Tools to work with except their records and the pleadings of coaches. We were good citizens and didn’t play anyone during Covid, lost all of our rankings and points. We were ranked >2500 in the country and Manchester City put us in the second flight. We emailed, called and emailed pleading with them to move us up and only when I DM’d them through Facebook did I get any reply but it was too late. We blew up the bracket and won but all of our girls felt terrible, like we robbed another team of their rightful medals.

You are right. The rankings are fun for us and the girls don’t really participate in the insanity. But in a world where small clubs are begging to play great teams, it’s importent.


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## mlx (Nov 27, 2022)

toucan said:


> I would go the other way on this.  From the Discovery League's perspective, I would drop Tudela's teams because KJR, who is Tudela's social media voice, suggests it is a crappy league which Tudela is only using until it is accepted into a better platform, and that its event-status with the GA constitutes that better platform.
> 
> Likewise, if I were Tudela, I would drop out of the Discovery League, because it views it as a third-class league behind the ECNL and the GA.  Despite KJR's protests, Tudela *does* disdain the league, and that can be verified by his own comments:
> 
> ...


Jesus, Bob, hold off your pitchfork!!! 

You need to understand that no one owes YOU  an explanation. They don’t have to prove anything to you.  They broke the rules, they receive the sanction according to those same rules. That’s it. Between the club and the league. Move on. 

For a Bob, you seriously act as a major Karen.


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