# Champions League Results/Discussion



## NoSouppForYou (Jun 22, 2022)

Day 1 2005 Champions League Analysis: Southwest Division teams went 3-2-1 for the day with wins for Surf, HB Koge, and Beach.  The favorites according to the Upper90rankings.com SRS score's for each team went 15-7, with 6 of 7 favorites that lost predicted to have less than a 1 goal advantage. The only true upset of the day was #56 Florida Krush over #12 MVLA 4-2, where MVLA was a 1.8 goal favorite. The only #1 seed to not win was # 10 Solar SC who tied #18 NC Courage 3.3, with Solar being less than a goal favorite, Group F truly is the toughest group for the 05's. Looking forward to Day 2!! Check out upper90rankings.com for the full bracket.


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## NoSouppForYou (Jun 22, 2022)

Day 1 2006 Champions League Analysis: Similar to the 05's, the favorites according to the SRS score went 15-6, with 4 of the 6 favorites that lost predicted to have less than a 1 goal advantage. Biggest upset of the day happened in the rain in the morning with #44 Tampa Bay beating #7 Colorado Rapids 2-1.  Second Big upset of the day was #8 MVLA losing to #36 Slammers, 6-3.  Not a great day for MVLA 05 and 06's losing. One game was not reported, SLSG vs. Washington Premier. Let's hope for more sunshine tomorrow, looking forward to the 07, 08, and 09 CL games kicking off!


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## Anon9 (Jun 22, 2022)

NoSouppForYou said:


> Day 1 2006 Champions League Analysis: Similar to the 05's, the favorites according to the SRS score went 15-6, with 4 of the 6 favorites that lost predicted to have less than a 1 goal advantage. Biggest upset of the day happened in the rain in the morning with #44 Tampa Bay beating #7 Colorado Rapids 2-1.  Second Big upset of the day was #8 MVLA losing to #36 Slammers, 6-3.  Not a great day for MVLA 05 and 06's losing. One game was not reported, SLSG vs. Washington Premier. Let's hope for more sunshine tomorrow, looking forward to the 07, 08, and 09 CL games kicking off!
> View attachment 13985


Keep up the great work!


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## NoSouppForYou (Jun 25, 2022)

U17 Analysis: 3 Socal teams move onto the round of 16 Monday, Surf, HB Koge, and Beach, with Surf and Koge winning their brackets and Beach earning a wildcard.  SRS Score predicted 12 of the 16 U17 Champions League quarterfinalists! Overall the rankings predicted 42 of the 66 games, with 18 of the 22 “upsets" having less than a goal predicted goal differential. Richmond the only 4 seed to advance, ranked #33 and won Bracket Group H with a win against #40 Kings Hammer.

The round of sixteen has two top 5 teams matching up, #1 Surf vs. #3 Real Colorado, and #2 Beach playing #5 World Class.  Only 1 of the 8 games has a predicted goal differential of more than 1, Solar vs. Penn Fusion with Solar predicted to win by 1.3 goals.


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## NoSouppForYou (Jun 25, 2022)




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## NoSouppForYou (Jun 25, 2022)

U16 CL Analysis: 3 Socal teams move onto the round of 16 Monday, #13 Surf, #9 HB Koge, and #24 Blues, with Surf and Koge winning their brackets and Blues earning a wildcard.  Texas gets two teams in #1 Solar and #3 FC Dallas.  44/66 games predicted and 14 of the 22 “upsets” had less than a goal predicted goal differential.  Similar to the 05s, the Upper90 rankings predicted 12 of the 16 in the round of 16.  

One top 10 matchup in the round of 16 with #9 HB Koge facing #10 Eclipse, 3 games with ~2 goal predicted goal differential.


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## NoSouppForYou (Jun 25, 2022)




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## Sike (Jun 26, 2022)

NoSouppForYou said:


> U16 CL Analysis: 3 Socal teams move onto the round of 16 Monday, #13 Surf, #9 HB Koge, and #24 Blues, with Surf and Koge winning their brackets and Blues earning a wildcard.  Texas gets two teams in #1 Solar and #3 FC Dallas.  44/66 games predicted and 14 of the 22 “upsets” had less than a goal predicted goal differential.  Similar to the 05s, the Upper90 rankings predicted 12 of the 16 in the round of 16.
> 
> One top 10 matchup in the round of 16 with #9 HB Koge facing #10 Eclipse, 3 games with ~2 goal predicted goal differential.
> View attachment 14028


Based upon your table, it looks like Slammers also won their bracket, making 4 teams from SoCal advancing to Round if 16?


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## paytoplayisgood (Jun 26, 2022)

wh


NoSouppForYou said:


> Day 1 2005 Champions League Analysis: Southwest Division teams went 3-2-1 for the day with wins for Surf, HB Koge, and Beach.  The favorites according to the Upper90rankings.com SRS score's for each team went 15-7, with 6 of 7 favorites that lost predicted to have less than a 1 goal advantage. The only true upset of the day was #56 Florida Krush over #12 MVLA 4-2, where MVLA was a 1.8 goal favorite. The only #1 seed to not win was # 10 Solar SC who tied #18 NC Courage 3.3, with Solar being less than a goal favorite, Group F truly is the toughest group for the 05's. Looking forward to Day 2!! Check out upper90rankings.com for the full bracket.  View attachment 13983


what are you doing with your life? spend some time doing things that actually matter in life like spending time with your daughter LOL


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## NoSouppForYou (Jun 26, 2022)

Sike said:


> Based upon your table, it looks like Slammers also won their bracket, making 4 teams from SoCal advancing to Round if 16?


Good catch, late after 2 games yesterday! Impressive run by Slammers to win their bracket on GD at 2-1.


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## NoSouppForYou (Jun 26, 2022)

A


paytoplayisgood said:


> wh
> 
> what are you doing with your life? spend some time doing things that actually matter in life like spending time with your daughter LOL


Appreciate the feedback! With two daughters here in Seattle, have had plenty of time to explore UW, amazing campus and soccer field on the lake, toured SeattleU, beautiful campus and underrated Div1 program. Visited Bain ridge island, pike place, and even got some fly fishing in. Good luck to all the socal girls today!! And I was able to do all this because the backend of upper90rankings.com is all automated. Adding GA, DPL, and boys over the summer.


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## crush (Jun 26, 2022)

NoSouppForYou said:


> A
> 
> Appreciate the feedback! With two daughters here in Seattle, have had plenty of time to explore UW, amazing campus and soccer field on the lake, toured SeattleU, beautiful campus and underrated Div1 program. Visited Bain ridge island, pike place, and even got some fly fishing in. Good luck to all the socal girls today!! And I was able to do all this because the backend of upper90rankings.com is all automated. Adding GA, DPL, and boys over the summer.


Are you guys playing at Five Points?  I took my family up there in 2017 for Far West Regionals and we won it all and earned a trip to Texas the following week where her team won the National Championship. I think it was the last Socal Team to win it all?  By the way, great job and thank you for putting the time in to break down the facts. Slammers is kicking ass is now the #1 club, moo.  Scoreboard is scoreboard. My dd knows many on the older teams and we can;t be more proud of them.  Good luck to all the Socal teams and please bring back the Cup where it rightfully belongs, in Socal


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## paytoplayisgood (Jun 26, 2022)

NoSouppForYou said:


> A
> 
> Appreciate the feedback! With two daughters here in Seattle, have had plenty of time to explore UW, amazing campus and soccer field on the lake, toured SeattleU, beautiful campus and underrated Div1 program. Visited Bain ridge island, pike place, and even got some fly fishing in. Good luck to all the socal girls today!! And I was able to do all this because the backend of upper90rankings.com is all automated. Adding GA, DPL, and boys over the summer.


imagine calculating the results of every girls team and each age. LOL. somebody takes youth soccer too seriously


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## whatithink (Jun 26, 2022)

paytoplayisgood said:


> imagine calculating the results of every girls team and each age. LOL. somebody takes youth soccer too seriously


Imagine, a coaches nightmare, while coaches sell sunshine & rainbows, someone else is putting an empirical model in place that measures them relative to their peers. There's no reason he can't build this up and create a business out of it with a nice little revenue stream for himself. Youth soccer is a business after all, with parents spending billions annually on it.


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## crush (Jun 26, 2022)

whatithink said:


> Imagine, a coaches nightmare, while coaches sell sunshine & rainbows, someone else is putting an empirical model in place that measures them relative to their peers. There's no reason he can't build this up and create a business out of it with a nice little revenue stream for himself. Youth soccer is a business after all, with parents spending billions annually on it.


Part time side hustle and he's done a very nice job. Looks clean and sharp and nothing to debate. His numbers look legit. I would offer a team discount for access to the top 25 in each age group.  Some one needs to make a Champions League Tournament and allow a GA or a DPL or a AYSO Select team upset ECNL team.  MLS LA Galaxy just got spanked by USL. That's why I like soccer.


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## jimlewis (Jun 26, 2022)

crush said:


> Part time side hustle and he's done a very nice job. Looks clean and sharp and nothing to debate. His numbers look legit. I would offer a team discount for access to the top 25 in each age group.  Some one needs to make a Champions League Tournament and allow a GA or a DPL or a AYSO Select team upset ECNL team.  MLS LA Galaxy just got spanked by USL. That's why I like soccer.


thought you left and were done with this forum?


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## crush (Jun 26, 2022)

jimlewis said:


> thought you left and were done with this forum?


Well Jim, if you thought I was done after four years of telling everyone I'm leaving, the joke is on you.....lol! I'm really only addressing three men on here and they know who they are. I have addiction to this place and the PMs got out of control.  This crush is way better and as each day comes, I become a better version of myself. I will keep my post light hearted and few. Each day for me is getting better and I like to put my two cents in and my best pal is going to VA. and I feel I want to honor that and leave the right way.


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## South Bay Baller (Jun 26, 2022)

crush said:


> Part time side hustle and he's done a very nice job. Looks clean and sharp and nothing to debate. His numbers look legit. I would offer a team discount for access to the top 25 in each age group.  Some one needs to make a Champions League Tournament and allow a GA or a DPL or a AYSO Select team upset ECNL team.  MLS LA Galaxy just got spanked by USL. That's why I like soccer.


We all know the ECNL is scared to step up to the other leagues. They love the superioriy myth.


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## espola (Jun 26, 2022)

jimlewis said:


> thought you left and were done with this forum?


...and not for the first time.


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## paytoplayisgood (Jun 27, 2022)

whatithink said:


> Imagine, a coaches nightmare, while coaches sell sunshine & rainbows, someone else is putting an empirical model in place that measures them relative to their peers. There's no reason he can't build this up and create a business out of it with a nice little revenue stream for himself. Youth soccer is a business after all, with parents spending billions annually on it.


he is just a parent. A parent that will make no money from such a stupid invention . LOL


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## whatithink (Jun 28, 2022)

paytoplayisgood said:


> he is just a parent. A parent that will make no money from such a stupid invention . LOL


LOL, and you are "just a coach", or more likely, "just a troll". You certainly have the arrogance of a coach with the "just a parent" comment.


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## crush (Jun 28, 2022)

whatithink said:


> LOL, and you are "just a coach", or more likely, "just a troll". You certainly have the arrogance of a coach with the "just a parent" comment.


Bingo. This Doc wants you to pay to play, stay and pay so he can get kickback money and then do his privates for more play time and ass kissing. Once your bill is paid in full, he will now act on your kids behlaf and find a deal for you and your child.


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## dad4 (Jun 28, 2022)

whatithink said:


> LOL, and you are "just a coach", or more likely, "just a troll". You certainly have the arrogance of a coach with the "just a parent" comment.


My guess is EOTL’s “Golden Gate” alias got banned, so it came back under a new name.


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## crush (Jun 28, 2022)

dad4 said:


> My guess is EOTL’s “Golden Gate” alias got banned, so it came back under a new name.


"And the Survey says?" No, GG is till around becauae I saw his avatar. I pay someone now to monitor the latest on here. Q me this Dad. Can you still login if you get suspened or banned for life?  Dom?


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## paytoplayisgood (Jun 28, 2022)

whatithink said:


> LOL, and you are "just a coach", or more likely, "just a troll". You certainly have the arrogance of a coach with the "just a parent" comment.


I am a club director at a GA club. I know much more than you would ever know about youth soccer


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## paytoplayisgood (Jun 28, 2022)

whatithink said:


> LOL, and you are "just a coach", or more likely, "just a troll". You certainly have the arrogance of a coach with the "just a parent" comment.


Without coaches like me, your puny daughter would only be able to play high school soccer.


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## whatithink (Jun 29, 2022)

paytoplayisgood said:


> I am a club director at a GA club. I know much more than you would ever know about youth soccer


definitely a troll, self validating much!


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## whatithink (Jun 29, 2022)

paytoplayisgood said:


> Without coaches like me, your puny daughter would only be able to play high school soccer.


And now insulting children, and you pretend to be a youth soccer coach/director! Your counter ego certainly defines everything that's wrong with youth soccer in the US, bravo!


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## paytoplayisgood (Jun 29, 2022)

whatithink said:


> And now insulting children, and you pretend to be a youth soccer coach/director! Your counter ego certainly defines everything that's wrong with youth soccer in the US, bravo!


ask crush. he knows I am a doc.


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## espola (Jun 29, 2022)

paytoplayisgood said:


> ask crush. he knows I am a doc.


I was thinking that you and crush are really the same person, wasting everyone's time.

Goodbye.


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## Kicker 2.0 (Jun 29, 2022)

paytoplayisgood said:


> ask crush. he knows I am a doc.


That’s your validation???  You could reference more credible posters if you want to be taken seriously.


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## crush (Jun 29, 2022)

espola said:


> I was thinking that you and crush are really the same person, wasting everyone's time.
> 
> Goodbye.


I was thinking this Doc avatar was you Espola. Baaed on my 11 years of expertise dealing with Docs, this pay to play is good avatar is a Doc and I am not playing him either. @Dominic knows 100% its not me playing double avatar to drum up suspense on the forum.


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Jun 29, 2022)

crush said:


> I was thinking this Doc avatar was you Espola. Baaed on my 11 years of expertise dealing with Docs, this pay to play is good avatar is a Doc and I am not playing him either. @Dominic knows 100% its not me playing double avatar to drum up suspense on the forum.


Didn't you a couple weeks ago you were leaving the forum?


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## crush (Jun 29, 2022)

Soccer Dad & Ref said:


> Didn't you a couple weeks ago you were leaving the forum?


I'm sorry for all the confusion and yes, I said I was gone for good. This is inside joke with me and the Three Amigos and few Docs and a couple dads that hate me because I called them out for BS and cheating and doing the pay to play money dance and that is unfair at best to those who have no money to pay to play.  It was a joke to them only, with a broken promise, so I could gather the information I was in need of. The PMs helped me a ton and a big treasure of information.  I will leave soon though, I promise.


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## NorCalUSN (Jun 29, 2022)

crush said:


> I'm sorry for all the confusion and yes, I said I was gone for good. This is inside joke with me and the Three Amigos and few Docs and a couple dads that hate me because I called them out for BS and cheating and doing the pay to play money dance and that is unfair at best to those who have no money to pay to play.  It was a joke to them only, with a broken promise, so I could gather the information I was in need of. The PMs helped me a ton and a big treasure of information.  I will leave soon though, I promise.


I'm not a longtime member but I think the difference between you and other "posters" here is you actually make posts that are constructive to the site.  Whereas, you don't  at least to me, appear to just try to troll folks, with insults or stupid statements.


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## crush (Jun 29, 2022)

NorCalUSN said:


> I'm not a longtime member but I think the difference between you and other "posters" here is you actually make posts that are constructive to the site.  Whereas, you don't  at least to me, appear to just try to troll folks, with insults or stupid statements.


Thanks man. This is personal between a few socal rich dads, the Docs they pay and a few who just don;t like me and that's ok. July 4th, 2018 was my first time back four years ago. Prior to that the Docs said I was not allowed to post on here or else. I think I will leave July 4th. I will leave when the season is officially over I guess. I do have 11 years of experience and that should count for something. Good luck to you and your player bro   I feel good karma coming to you man.


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## paytoplayisgood (Jun 30, 2022)

Agai


crush said:


> Thanks man. This is personal between a few socal rich dads, the Docs they pay and a few who just don;t like me and that's ok. July 4th, 2018 was my first time back four years ago. Prior to that the Docs said I was not allowed to post on here or else. I think I will leave July 4th. I will leave when the season is officially over I guess. I do have 11 years of experience and that should count for something. Good luck to you and your player bro   I feel good karma coming to you man.


Again, nothing wrong if parents want to pay docs extra. Helps out both parties and the club as a whole. More funding for teams


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## crush (Jul 1, 2022)

paytoplayisgood said:


> Agai
> 
> Again, nothing wrong if parents want to pay docs extra. Helps out both parties and the club as a whole. More funding for teams


I give up and I will give up my hope for free soccer for the kids. SC and UCLA are hopping for greener pasture so it is what it is.  Pay extra for extra play is not going away in the Elite Leagues and you found a niche and you found customers willing to pay doc extra.  Sorry for accusing you of being Golden Gate.  I see your point now and 99% are willing to pay you extra for the extra boost in coaching.


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## paytoplayisgood (Jul 1, 2022)

crush said:


> I give up and I will give up my hope for free soccer for the kids. SC and UCLA are hopping for greener pasture so it is what it is.  Pay extra for extra play is not going away in the Elite Leagues and you found a niche and you found customers willing to pay doc extra.  Sorry for accusing you of being Golden Gate.  I see your point now and 99% are willing to pay you extra for the extra boost in coaching.


Youth soccer is a business. If you are not interested in that, you have AYSO or high school soccer. Thanks to pay to play soccer the USWNT is the best in the world and the USMNT is on the rise and is currently top 10


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## #girldad (Jul 1, 2022)

paytoplayisgood said:


> Youth soccer is a business. If you are not interested in that, you have AYSO or high school soccer. Thanks to pay to play soccer the USWNT is the best in the world and the USMNT is on the rise and is currently top 10


That's the glaring problem with the pay to play system. For as big as the United States is, they should be always be the clear cut #1 team in the world year in and year out. There are many kids out there who can play, but cannot afford to pay.


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## Brav520 (Jul 2, 2022)

Wait pay to play has always been around , but it’s now the reason for the men”s team having success ???


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 2, 2022)

paytoplayisgood said:


> Youth soccer is a business. If you are not interested in that, you have AYSO or high school soccer.


Depending on the neighborhood, high school is pay to play. I pay $600+$250 (fundraiser by asking people you know to donate on your behalf or you pay it) + $50 for spring coach for PE if you do not play another sport + $250 2 week summer camp (unspoken you need to go to make the team) + purchase of coat.


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## espola (Jul 2, 2022)

Keepermom2 said:


> Depending on the neighborhood, high school is pay to play. I pay $600+$250 (fundraiser by asking people you know to donate on your behalf or you pay it) + $50 for spring coach for PE if you do not play another sport + $250 2 week summer camp (unspoken you need to go to make the team) + purchase of coat.


I don't know what high school that is, but if it is a public high school, just don't pay it.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 2, 2022)

espola said:


> I don't know what high school that is, but if it is a public high school, just don't pay it.


It is a public school and not paying it isn't an option.  I will leave it at that on this public forum.


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## espola (Jul 2, 2022)

Keepermom2 said:


> It is a public school and not paying it isn't an option.  I will leave it at that on this public forum.


The offended party won't even have to pay for a lawyer.  There are lawyers who will take up this kind of easy-winner case on a pro bono publico basis.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 2, 2022)

espola said:


> The offended party won't even have to pay for a lawyer.  There are lawyers who will take up this kind of easy-winner case on a pro bono publico basis.


Winning anything of substance against a public school is next to impossible and the fight isn't worth the potential outcome.  Been there done that and got 2 separate and successful office of civil rights findings against the district related to my older daughter with little or no benefit except they are a little tiny bit fearful of me.  Litigation in court is a pipe dream.  To win anything of substance, they have to have done something so horrible that it would hit the news.


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## paytoplayisgood (Jul 3, 2022)

#girldad said:


> That's the glaring problem with the pay to play system. For as big as the United States is, they should be always be the clear cut #1 team in the world year in and year out. There are many kids out there who can play, but cannot afford to pay.


United States can't be the current clear cut #1 team in the world if boys soccer 20 years ago wasn't popular. You fail to realize that there are other sports in our country that are more popular


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## SDMama (Jul 3, 2022)

NoSouppForYou said:


> A
> 
> Appreciate the feedback! With two daughters here in Seattle, have had plenty of time to explore UW, amazing campus and soccer field on the lake, toured SeattleU, beautiful campus and underrated Div1 program. Visited Bain ridge island, pike place, and even got some fly fishing in. Good luck to all the socal girls today!! And I was able to do all this because the backend of upper90rankings.com is all automated. Adding GA, DPL, and boys over the summer.


Did ECNL take down all of its standings info?  The app shows blanks, and it looks like the website shows this past year’s schedules with results, but no standings?


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## #girldad (Jul 3, 2022)

paytoplayisgood said:


> United States can't be the current clear cut #1 team in the world if boys soccer 20 years ago wasn't popular. You fail to realize that there are other sports in our country that are more popular


Other sports shouldn't matter considering the US population (350 million) compared to the top 3 soccer countries. 
1. Brazil (210 M) 2. Argentina (45 M) 3. France (70 M)

The pay to play system significantly reduces the US player selection pool, don't you think?


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## dad4 (Jul 4, 2022)

#girldad said:


> Other sports shouldn't matter considering the US population (350 million) compared to the top 3 soccer countries.
> 1. Brazil (210 M) 2. Argentina (45 M) 3. France (70 M)
> 
> The pay to play system significantly reduces the US player selection pool, don't you think?


I totally agree that the letter league system reduces the player pool.  Overpriced tournaments don’t help, either.

However, you can’t just ignore the popularity of football, baseball, and basketball.  Many of the people who might have been great soccer players are currently wide receivers, short stops, or point guards.  Nothing wrong with that, but it does change our odds of finally getting out of group at the world cup.


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## Yak (Jul 4, 2022)

#girldad said:


> Other sports shouldn't matter considering the US population (350 million) compared to the top 3 soccer countries.
> 1. Brazil (210 M) 2. Argentina (45 M) 3. France (70 M)
> 
> The pay to play system significantly reduces the US player selection pool, don't you think?


There are pathways for boys outside of the pay-to-play system.  Think of the pipeline from clubs like TFA and LAUFA into MLS academies.


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## whatithink (Jul 4, 2022)

#girldad said:


> Other sports shouldn't matter considering the US population (350 million) compared to the top 3 soccer countries.
> 1. Brazil (210 M) 2. Argentina (45 M) 3. France (70 M)
> 
> The pay to play system significantly reduces the US player selection pool, don't you think?


If it was just a question of population then China & India would be able to excel in every sport with 30%+ of the world's population between them. Conversely Belgium wouldn't be #2 in the world with <12M pop., or Denmark wouldn't be in the top 10 with <6M population. 

The last one is a good case in point. Denmark has a smaller population than AZ. Soccer is the most popular sport. It has 3 professional divisions and further divisions below that. In contrast AZ doesn't even have an MLS team - but it does have NFL, NBA, MLS & NHL.

I do agree that pay to play is a significant barrier. The DA program made a lot of sense by attempting to remove that. That said, you can't ignore the fact that soccer is not that popular in the US compared to other pro and college sports. It is way down the list.


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## VanMan (Jul 4, 2022)

dad4 said:


> I totally agree that the letter league system reduces the player pool.  Overpriced tournaments don’t help, either.
> 
> However, you can’t just ignore the popularity of football, baseball, and basketball.  Many of the people who might have been great soccer players are currently wide receivers, short stops, or point guards.  Nothing wrong with that, but it does change our odds of finally getting out of group at the world cup.


It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the long run.  Football and baseball participation rates have been dropping for years.


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## Carlsbad7 (Jul 4, 2022)

What's holding soccer back in the US is that MLS is structured like the NFL. What I mean is that MLS is a league that controls the teams that play in it. Different teams are franchises. Instead of operating as an association of independently owned clubs, MLS is a single entity in which each team is owned by the league and individually operated by the league's investors. What this means is that MLS is more of a show than a competiton between independent entities.

In Europe and other parts of the world soccer clubs are completely independent. When they play each other the results are real. Also from a player perspective theres no such thing as a "salary cap". Imagine how much interest in soccer would change if kids saw top soccer players making 200 million+.

Finally a grey area in America which is legal in other parts of the world is Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players (RSTP). Or a payment from a big club to a smaller club for developing a player. Imagine how different youth soccer clubs would be if they were paid 500k for each big time talent they developed.


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## Brav520 (Jul 4, 2022)

dad4 said:


> I totally agree that the letter league system reduces the player pool.  Overpriced tournaments don’t help, either.
> 
> However, you can’t just ignore the popularity of football, baseball, and basketball.  Many of the people who might have been great soccer players are currently wide receivers, short stops, or point guards.  Nothing wrong with that, but it does change our odds of finally getting out of group at the world cup.


US has been out of the group stage in 3/4 world cups this century


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## dad4 (Jul 4, 2022)

Brav520 said:


> US has been out of the group stage in 3/4 world cups this century


Maybe we can grow into the kind of world dominant power that can consistently beat Trinidad and Tobago.


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## Larzby (Jul 4, 2022)

espola said:


> The offended party won't even have to pay for a lawyer.  There are lawyers who will take up this kind of easy-winner case on a pro bono publico basis.


I'd be interested in hearing the name of these lawyers, because I've had parents ask me this same question and I couldn't find anyone for them who thought this was a viable case.


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## Grace T. (Jul 4, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> What's holding soccer back in the US is that MLS is structured like the NFL. What I mean is that MLS is a league that controls the teams that play in it. Different teams are franchises. Instead of operating as an association of independently owned clubs, MLS is a single entity in which each team is owned by the league and individually operated by the league's investors. What this means is that MLS is more of a show than a competiton between independent entities.
> 
> In Europe and other parts of the world soccer clubs are completely independent. When they play each other the results are real. Also from a player perspective theres no such thing as a "salary cap". Imagine how much interest in soccer would change if kids saw top soccer players making 200 million+.
> 
> Finally a grey area in America which is legal in other parts of the world is Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players (RSTP). Or a payment from a big club to a smaller club for developing a player. Imagine how different youth soccer clubs would be if they were paid 500k for each big time talent they developed.


The mls also caps designated players (who can earn the bigger bucks) at 3 per team.  The result is the salaries aren’t attractive to us home grown players who can earn more by going to college but it is attractive to players from el salvador or Trinidad for which it’s a lot of money.  That time spent playing college (with a limited season and not always the best coaching) is wasted development time during the prime soccer years 


Yak said:


> There are pathways for boys outside of the pay-to-play system.  Think of the pipeline from clubs like TFA and LAUFA into MLS academies.


which means the real pathway for development is sending the kids to Europe to play. But there are significant legal and financial obstacles to making that work and only those with significant resources can do it

there is another path which is playing in Mexico but again it’s risky, banks on ultimately moving to Europe, and college is a much safer option for those considering this.


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## Grace T. (Jul 4, 2022)

Larzby said:


> I'd be interested in hearing the name of these lawyers, because I've had parents ask me this same question and I couldn't find anyone for them who thought this was a viable case.


The hartzell case established the rule in California that you can’t charge for high school sports.  But the problem is the schools don’t have the funds so they try and avoid the rule by charging things like uniform fees or farming out fundraising to the boosters (and the boosters in turn just charge the membership because you can only do so many car washes a year…car washes which generally go to hardship or recruitment scholarships). Many of them get around the most egregious fees by providing income waivers for the poorer kids, but those income waivers have also become a way for the schools to provide scholarships to recruited athletes.

there are a couple of lawsuits by the aclu that are snaking their way through the courts. I can imagine it would be hard to find a private lawyer that would want to take this.  First there’s the question of fees: it would be a lawsuit against the government (which are difficult) and there isn’t likely to be a recovery of attorneys fees against the government.  I slipped and fell on some ice several years back on state land and broke my ankle…if I had slipped in front of the vons or even my neighborhood restaurant there would have been a line of lawyers wanting to take it…but I couldn’t even find a friendly acquaintance willing to take up the bother. Second, it’s politics as the trial bar is heavily aligned with the Democratic Party (which controls many of the local school boards) and no one wants to shake the system which might bring down the entire athletics system at local schools, particularly if the lawyer has any future interest in politics or the bench. Third, if it’s a smaller community the lawyer would be socially ostracized for trying to bring down the local football program. Fourth, because it’s the government, it’s just harder to sue them and takes a bunch of more hours at work for something which may not be that profitable. Fifth, there isn’t a large specialty as a result in suing the government and either the lawyer has to undergo substantial education or if they are government lawyers have much easier and lucrative cases to fry (such as disabled Ed lawsuits). So we’ll have to see the results of the aclu lawsuits, which iiuc got paused during the time the schools were shut down for Covid and some of their clients aged out (leading the govt to argue there’s no ongoing harm and no financial damages to be paid).


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## jojon (Jul 5, 2022)

#girldad said:


> Other sports shouldn't matter considering the US population (350 million) compared to the top 3 soccer countries.
> 1. Brazil (210 M) 2. Argentina (45 M) 3. France (70 M)
> 
> The pay to play system significantly reduces the US player selection pool, don't you think?


Totally Agree. US has very small selection pool for ANY sports due to "pay to play" scheme. The problem is just magnified in soccer due to its popularity in other countries.
I grew up fascinated with Olympic athletes and always wonder how Cuba can produce world record high jumps, Jamaica can produce world record sprints, how on earth Australia is a rival with US swimming (27mil vs 330mil with comparable resources and genetics)?
Being a parent now, the answer is that only 10-15% of households can afford to pay $5000+ for sports. I am talking serious training here, not YMCA level, meaning training 5+/week + tournaments + transportation. Let's not even mention ice skating or gymnastics, I doubt those parents in China spent $10k/year for these gold medalists. If you don't like China, let's compare with Norway with their athletic achievements.


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## Yours in futbol (Jul 8, 2022)

Larzby said:


> I'd be interested in hearing the name of these lawyers, because I've had parents ask me this same question and I couldn't find anyone for them who thought this was a viable case.


I don't think you need a lawyer, there's a statutory process for you to make anonymous complaints for violations to the principal, and if necessary appeal to the Education Department.  (Take a look at Cal. Education Code 49013.). Seems like you could probably do that without a lawyer.


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## espola (Jul 8, 2022)

Yours in futbol said:


> I don't think you need a lawyer, there's a statutory process for you to make anonymous complaints for violations to the principal, and if necessary appeal to the Education Department.  (Take a look at Cal. Education Code 49013.). Seems like you could probably do that without a lawyer.


I guess you could do it yourself, sending a letter or email to the school principal and the school board asking whether they are aware of cases where this question has already been settled.









						Hartzell v. Connell (1984)
					

Hartzell v. Connell (1984), Supreme Court of California




					law.justia.com


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## Kicker 2.0 (Jul 8, 2022)

This thread has been Magoo’d…..-so much for Champions league dialogue


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## Larzby (Jul 9, 2022)

Yours in futbol said:


> I don't think you need a lawyer, there's a statutory process for you to make anonymous complaints for violations to the principal, and if necessary appeal to the Education Department.  (Take a look at Cal. Education Code 49013.). Seems like you could probably do that without a lawyer.


That has been done, with no effect.  Being completely sincere, I would be happy to have the name of a law firm that would handle these cases. It comes up all the time with parents I know.


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