# Not to play State/national cup



## Primetime (Mar 19, 2019)

Anyone have any experience or thoughts on not playing state/national cup ?   Doing another big tournament instead, maybe one of the two other Vegas tournaments, Phoenix Cup or something along those lines.   ?  I know some younger teams had to make that choice this year with state cup and Vegas cup the same weekends.   Was just something I was thinking about for my team next year.


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## jrcaesar (Mar 19, 2019)

Without knowing the ages of the players on your team, do keep in mind from a life-experience standpoint that the preteens especially all wear their State Cup sweatshirts to school for weeks after the event - source of pride and kinship with other kids. (Now from a soccer development standpoint, it might be better to play in a different tournament...don't know.)


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## Primetime (Mar 19, 2019)

jrcaesar said:


> Without knowing the ages of the players on your team, do keep in mind from a life-experience standpoint that the preteens especially all wear their State Cup sweatshirts to school for weeks after the event - source of pride and kinship with other kids. (Now from a soccer development standpoint, it might be better to play in a different tournament...don't know.)


They’re 06’s so most  have played a handful some as many as 5-6 state/national cups.  But my question was general for most age groups.  That’s always been my big argument for teams that don’t play it.    It’s more for an experience and the fact everyone else is playing.


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## Eagle33 (Mar 19, 2019)

Primetime said:


> Anyone have any experience or thoughts on not playing state/national cup ?   Doing another big tournament instead, maybe one of the two other Vegas tournaments, Phoenix Cup or something along those lines.   ?  I know some younger teams had to make that choice this year with state cup and Vegas cup the same weekends.   Was just something I was thinking about for my team next year.


Over the years I did or did not go to State/National Cup with various teams. We either went to Vegas Players Showcase or Phoenix Cup or both instead. Every time NOT playing at State/National was always a better experience for all involved. My take on this matter is unless you have a team with realistic chance of winning State or National Cup, it's better to play somewhere else.


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## espola (Mar 19, 2019)

jrcaesar said:


> Without knowing the ages of the players on your team, do keep in mind from a life-experience standpoint that the preteens especially all wear their State Cup sweatshirts to school for weeks after the event - source of pride and kinship with other kids. (Now from a soccer development standpoint, it might be better to play in a different tournament...don't know.)


Development occurs at practice.  Games (whether league or at tournaments) are the exams.


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## TangoCity (Mar 19, 2019)

espola said:


> Development occurs at practice.  Games (whether league or at tournaments) are the exams.


Development occurs everywhere.  Practices, games... you name it.


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## espola (Mar 19, 2019)

TangoCity said:


> Development occurs everywhere.  Practices, games... you name it.


Most games a large part of the roster is sitting on the bench.   In all the games I have witnessed, there is only one ball on the field, which usually means that most of the players are just getting a good view of the game.


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## OCsoccerdad7777 (Mar 19, 2019)

In National Cup U13 and older, the first 2 rounds if you make it, get 6 games, please another 3-4 if you get to finals. Other tourneys, you would probably get 6 max IF you reach finals.


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## timbuck (Mar 19, 2019)

Sure would make the end of season tryout mess a little bit easier to deal with.


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## jpeter (Mar 19, 2019)

OCsoccerdad7777 said:


> In National Cup U13 and older, the first 2 rounds if you make it, get 6 games, please another 3-4 if you get to finals. Other tourneys, you would probably get 6 max IF you reach finals.


The one game a day is a nice but driving out to SilverLakes or whatever 6x times over 3 weekends or more just to get to the knockout rounds gets old especially mutiple years in a row.  Would rather cut to the chase and have one round pool (instead of 2) play winners advance only and have fewer games but then CS couldn't sell 1st round byes via CRL so doubt they will change what makes them the most $$$.

After state cup or 1st year of Nat cup there are plenty of other tournaments, leagues, cups that teams & clubs opt for in addition or instead of.   National premier leagues, us club national cup xviii,  Dallas Cup #40, Vegas Tournaments, or CAL Cup  if you want to play local, etc.


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## GunninGopher (Mar 19, 2019)

Primetime said:


> Anyone have any experience or thoughts on not playing state/national cup ?   Doing another big tournament instead, maybe one of the two other Vegas tournaments, Phoenix Cup or something along those lines.   ?  I know some younger teams had to make that choice this year with state cup and Vegas cup the same weekends.   Was just something I was thinking about for my team next year.


If you want to do something similar do the US Club Soccer one in the Sacramento area. Feeds right into their National Championship and the games are easier than National Cup. We might do that this year (in addition to Nat Cup)


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## socalkdg (Mar 19, 2019)

Just got knocked out of the U14 State Cup.   Played 6 games vs teams that we had never faced,  saw different styles of play,  made it to the final 8,  played with 15 girls for some games, then played with 12 girls because of sickness.  The kids adjusted each time.   Parents and girls had a blast with the whole experience.   Drive was 90 minutes to Lancaster than to Oceanside.   Wouldn't have traded the experience for anything.


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## OCsoccerdad7777 (Mar 19, 2019)

jpeter said:


> The one game a day is a nice but driving out to SilverLakes or whatever 6x times over 3 weekends or more just to get to the knockout rounds gets old especially mutiple years in a row.  Would rather cut to the chase and have one round pool (instead of 2) play winners advance only and have fewer games but then CS couldn't sell 1st round byes via CRL so doubt they will change what makes them the most $$$.
> 
> After state cup or 1st year of Nat cup there are plenty of other tournaments, leagues, cups that teams & clubs opt for in addition or instead of.   National premier leagues, us club national cup xviii,  Dallas Cup #40, Vegas Tournaments, or CAL Cup  if you want to play local, etc.


Not disagreeing about driving part, but is nice to play against teams you wouldn't see in your league especially if you dont play many tournaments - get to play against SCDSL teams or vice versa - CSL, etc. Bonus is if your team is good too.

I'm greedy and like tourneys and National Cup


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## Overlap (Mar 20, 2019)

Primetime said:


> Anyone have any experience or thoughts on not playing state/national cup ?   Doing another big tournament instead, maybe one of the two other Vegas tournaments, Phoenix Cup or something along those lines.   ?  I know some younger teams had to make that choice this year with state cup and Vegas cup the same weekends.   Was just something I was thinking about for my team next year.


Our daughters G98 team made it to the semi finals in National Cup and along with another team had to forfeit as they couldn't field a team due to Prom. The one's that wanted to play and still attend their prom were pretty upset, we tried to get them to switch game times with the younger teams but, no go, after all that, it really set in...it didn't matter, it's just another game. So, we decided to end our G00's at Las Vegas Player's Showcase this year, it was a great experience, very emotional for everyone, player's & parents, we had a great team dinner, handed out some really cool things for the girls to remember their team and we were lucky enough to play some of the top competition in the age group. The wins/loses didn't matter, what mattered was lacing up their boots one more time together as some of these kids had been together since they were 6 years old. A few are going off to play in college and while both of mine are, it's just not the same, enjoy this time no matter where they play.


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## outside! (Mar 20, 2019)

Overlap said:


> Our daughters G98 team made it to the semi finals in National Cup and along with another team had to forfeit as they couldn't field a team due to Prom. The one's that wanted to play and still attend their prom were pretty upset, we tried to get them to switch game times with the younger teams but, no go, after all that, it really set in...it didn't matter, it's just another game. So, we decided to end our G00's at Las Vegas Player's Showcase this year, it was a great experience, very emotional for everyone, player's & parents, we had a great team dinner, handed out some really cool things for the girls to remember their team and we were lucky enough to play some of the top competition in the age group. The wins/loses didn't matter, what mattered was lacing up their boots one more time together as some of these kids had been together since they were 6 years old. A few are going off to play in college and while both of mine are, it's just not the same, enjoy this time no matter where they play.


Two years ago DD's team played a National Cup game with 9 players because CalSouth routinely schedules olders games late in the day and it conflicted with prom. The coach asked if the team wanted to forfeit but the 9 players wanted to play one last game with the seniors. They dominated the game but ended up losing 3-2. I heard the opposing coach yell to his team "You know they only have 9 players and no keepers right?"


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## Overlap (Mar 20, 2019)

outside! said:


> Two years ago DD's team played a National Cup game with 9 players because CalSouth routinely schedules olders games late in the day and it conflicted with prom. The coach asked if the team wanted to forfeit but the 9 players wanted to play one last game with the seniors. They dominated the game but ended up losing 3-2. I heard the opposing coach yell to his team "You know they only have 9 players and no keepers right?"


you would think Cal South would figure this out however, it looks like they just don't care since it's been going on so long.


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## Eagle33 (Mar 20, 2019)

Overlap said:


> you would think Cal South would figure this out however, it looks like they just don't care since it's been going on so long.


If older teams will stop applying, they will figure out real fast.


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## RedCard (Mar 20, 2019)

This year's National Cup, one of the G05 teams that moved onto the round of 16 forfeited cause they went to the Vegas showcase. Kind of a head scratcher but I guess that's what they agreed on.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Mar 20, 2019)

RedCard said:


> This year's National Cup, one of the G05 teams that moved onto the round of 16 forfeited cause they went to the Vegas showcase. Kind of a head scratcher but I guess that's what they agreed on.


We were surprised that they had entered when our club told us we would not be able to as there were too many conflicts to make it work.  Maybe a tune up before the Vegas showcase?


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## Overlap (Mar 21, 2019)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> We were surprised that they had entered when our club told us we would not be able to as there were too many conflicts to make it work.  Maybe a tune up before the Vegas showcase?


smart move on their part if they have kids that want to play in college, very few college coaches attend the National Cup games until the finals and still much fewer in numbers than the number of coaches at the Las Vegas Player's Showcase, even at the older age groups aging out, you could see the number of coaches on the sidelines...


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## mirage (Mar 21, 2019)

Overlap said:


> Our daughters G98 team made it to the semi finals in National Cup and along with another team had to forfeit as they couldn't field a team due to Prom. The one's that wanted to play and still attend their prom were pretty upset, ......


At the risk of being boo'd, disliked and disagreed, skip the prom!

...but I have boys and not girls.  Probably a non-starter for girls.

I suppose players can arrange to arrive to the prom late by coordinating with their respective schools and do both.   But I know how the whole day goes on the Prom day, filled with hair, makeup, photos, dinner, limo so that too is not acceptable by most.


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## espola (Mar 21, 2019)

mirage said:


> At the risk of being boo'd, disliked and disagreed, skip the prom!
> 
> ...but I have boys and not girls.  Probably a non-starter for girls.
> 
> I suppose players can arrange to arrive to the prom late by coordinating with their respective schools and do both.   But I know how the whole day goes on the Prom day, filled with hair, makeup, photos, dinner, limo so that too is not acceptable by most.


On my older son's Prom night, his limo group decided to go to the CIF baseball finals before they went to the dance.  The D2 game before it went to extra innings, so the D1 game started late.  Then the D1 game went to extra innings, but the Promsters stayed to watch their friends win.  By the time the games were all over, it was too late for Prom.


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## Overlap (Mar 21, 2019)

mirage said:


> At the risk of being boo'd, disliked and disagreed, skip the prom!
> 
> ...but I have boys and not girls.  Probably a non-starter for girls.
> 
> I suppose players can arrange to arrive to the prom late by coordinating with their respective schools and do both.   But I know how the whole day goes on the Prom day, filled with hair, makeup, photos, dinner, limo so that too is not acceptable by most.


 exactly, ... girls are drama! I remember 3-4 of them needed 4 hours to do their freaking hair!


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## outside! (Mar 21, 2019)

mirage said:


> At the risk of being boo'd, disliked and disagreed, skip the prom!
> 
> ...but I have boys and not girls.  Probably a non-starter for girls.
> 
> I suppose players can arrange to arrive to the prom late by coordinating with their respective schools and do both.   But I know how the whole day goes on the Prom day, filled with hair, makeup, photos, dinner, limo so that too is not acceptable by most.


Why on earth would a bunch of players that are already committed to D1 colleges skip senior prom? There are lots of soccer games, there is only one senior prom for most people. Winning National Cup would have been meaningless for this particular team. The real answer is for CalSouth to schedule the U17 and U18 games in the morning.


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## mirage (Mar 21, 2019)

outside! said:


> Why on earth would a bunch of players that are already committed to D1 colleges skip senior prom? There are lots of soccer games, there is only one senior prom for most people. Winning National Cup would have been meaningless for this particular team.....


Are you speaking of this particular team with some inside knowledge or in general?

Generally speaking, any given team playing in National Cup (meaning non-DA/ECNL) do NOT have "bunch" of players committed to D1 (or D2/3) college soccer.  Some, probably but bunch - no - so let's get that notion out of the way.

Frankly, if a team has a real good chance of winning the National Cup to move onto Regionals, and is their last year in youth soccer, then the same arguments can be made.  There are other dances and parties.  It's just where do one put relative value of prom in their lives.

Now if your argument is to say prom is more important to some of these players, then it's an individual by individual choice and it is what it is; hence, I'd med the original comment about just skip prom.


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## timbuck (Mar 21, 2019)

It is a bit nuts that it takes until mid-May for the final game to be played. 
Presidents is done 4 weeks sooner.


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## Speed (Mar 22, 2019)

Overlap said:


> exactly, ... girls are drama! I remember 3-4 of them needed 4 hours to do their freaking hair!


Nope not mine. She can do deoderant, perfume and a quick up do, plus her lipgloss and she’s good to go.


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## Overlap (Mar 24, 2019)

Speed said:


> Nope not mine. She can do deoderant, perfume and a quick up do, plus her lipgloss and she’s good to go.


wait until her last year...


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## outside! (Mar 25, 2019)

mirage said:


> Are you speaking of this particular team with some inside knowledge or in general?
> 
> Generally speaking, any given team playing in National Cup (meaning non-DA/ECNL) do NOT have "bunch" of players committed to D1 (or D2/3) college soccer.  Some, probably but bunch - no - so let's get that notion out of the way.
> 
> ...


Yes, I was speaking of DD's team from the year before GDA started. They had already won the USYS National Championship and almost all the players were committed. That doesn't change the fact that CalSouth should schedule the olders for the morning games.


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