# Switching clubs next year questions...



## mommato2girls (Aug 16, 2016)

It's been about 6 months into the season and we are 90% sure we are going to switch clubs next season for various reasons. We are debating on playing up a year and staying local or trying for a more 'elite' club at her age level. We've had several coaches reach out to us after tournaments and invite us over for practices, to check out the team etc but we are finishing up our year where we started and feel funny doing that early on. What is the protocol here for this type of thing? We've already told our coach our intentions and that we feel like it's just not the right fit for us so it wouldn't be taking him by surprise. Who has done this successfully? I'm hoping to find a great fit for her and not sure how to tackle it since I didn't do a very good job this season!


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## Wez (Aug 16, 2016)

Seems like you're doing things right.  Be open and honest.  We pay big money for clubs, we're the client and can pick and choose where we think our kids are best off.


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## transplant (Aug 16, 2016)

A lot depends on how your current coach reacts.  I highly recommend keeping your commitment to the current team through the end of the season - unless there is some unworkable situation - and voice that commitment to the coach if he is open to hearing it (Some are not......).  Soccer world is small as the kids get older so breaking commitments usually only leads to problems later.

The good news is you have a lot of time to do your research, watch the other potential coaches styles at games & do some training with them. Also time to talk to current and former parents who have been part of the potential target organizations.  To make an informed decision will take a fair amount of work on your part as well as your daughters - beyond the commitments to her current team. 

 Also - highly likely some coaches will pressure you to jump ship early.  This is a red flag for me.  If they can not respect your prior commitments then how will they treat your child later. 

Depending on age and options - local is better if you can do it in my opinion.  Depending on skill level there certainly could be a point where the long commute makes sense for more exposure - but there many factors in that decision.

Good Luck


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## jrcaesar (Aug 16, 2016)

So based on reading your other posts, I'd say that at this age group, the focus should still be on skills improvement and development, not keeping a winning team together by having some kids play up. Give your daughter the opportunity that USYS has handed to her: She now gets to be an OLDER player in her age group.  Find a place that matches her interests and competitiveness level - whether it's a flight 1 team in her year, or something less intense. (We just did the same thing - left one club to be an "older" on a new team in a different club. Big, positive change for my kid!) Keep your drive as short as possible for now, you need the extra hour to adjust to middle school life. Good luck!!!


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## Sped (Aug 16, 2016)

any team that looks at your kids at this point in the season (literally just days after making their final league rosters) sucks and should be avoided.  Wait until after Thanksgiving to have them play with other teams.


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## CaliKlines (Aug 16, 2016)

Your commitment is to your daughter. The commitment to the club doesn't extend beyond the financial commitment. If you feel like she would be better suited in a different environment with different training, you should move as soon as possible. That being said, it doesn't make much since to move now, so close to the start of the new season. You never know what a new season brings...maybe the situation at the current club will improve, maybe the training she is receiving improves...but you usually want to wait until after State/National Cup to see if any changes occur.

As others have said, you have the fall season to evaluate which clubs are options logistically and which have a complimentary playing style.


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## timbuck (Aug 16, 2016)

Be very wary of coaches that approach you/your kid after games to ask you to tryout.  If they're looking for the next best thing now, they'll be doing it next year too.  If they want to pull you into their team this late, it means some kid is getting less playing time. 

What's so bad about the current team?  There'd be 3 reasons I'd look to move my kid ASAP:
1.  Abusive coach
2.  Abusive kids 
3.  Asshole parents
Pretty much anything else, I could handle.


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## mirage (Aug 16, 2016)

Wow, the regular league season schedule is not posted let alone games....  Already one foot out the door.

I guess if you are CSL/Presidio parent, you can pull your kid out Monday after Thanksgiving.  If your are SCDSL, technically, they do not have to release you to another SCDSL club until after the state tournament (if you're going to CSL from SCDSL, they have no power to stop you after Thanksgiving).

For whatever reasons you have to move, I do recommend finishing the league season positively and have the player do the best.  Its too bad you didn't think to do this a month ago.  August 1st is when the players get tied down (CalSouth) to a club.  Before hand, you probably would have lost your fee but still could move without any issue.

Perhaps next time keep your options open longer, in spite of coaches saying commit or else.  If the coach really want the player, he will accept whenever you commit, unless he has reached a roster limit.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 16, 2016)

Thanks for all the responses. We don't plan to leave until next year, we have no intention on jumping ship or teaching that to the kiddo. Her coach is a good guy, he's not in the best situation with a handful of parents that have zero commitment to the team. One girl we haven't seen in over a month, then we have a handful that ride the coach to play their kids in that one position that they favor and another handful that won't run after a ball unless it rolls right to their feet. it's no one persons fault. We were incredibly lucky with our last club before we moved, the girls all had very similar personalities, were all very competitive and became more like family by year end. I still don't know some of our current girls names bc they show up for practices so irregularly. Just a frustrating situation. I appreciate the advice.


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## Surfref (Aug 16, 2016)

Definitely start attend other team's practices in November after the fall season ends.  Attend multiple practices and try to guest play with them during a December tournament.  If the current team is not a good fit, I would leave for another team before the State/National Cup roster freeze date.  May as well get integrated into the new team and play State/National Cup to see if the new team is a good fit.

My DD changed clubs after the fall season during her U14 year due to an abusive coach and ended up with a great coach and a good bunch of girls.  She changed again after U16 after State/National Cup but this time because she wanted to play for a higher level team.  This time it was completely her decision and did not work out as well as she planned and she moved again for her U18 and 19 seasons which worked out wonderful. None of the coaches after the U14 move got upset with her.

The U14 coach was pissed off at her and me.  She did walk out of practice and to the car and told me to take her home because she was not playing for "Coach" anymore.  Evidently she crossed the ball too far across the penalty area.  The coach yelled at her and told her to do 20 push ups.  She said, "No, what are pushups going to teach me."  He said, "Fine, than do 40 pushups so you learn to keep your mouth shut."  She said, "No." and walked off.  I had her at the new team within a week and on their roster within two weeks.  I saw this coming and we were going to wait until after State/National Cup to leave but the coach just pushed the wrong button with her.


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## lancer (Aug 16, 2016)

The OP sounds similar to a parent on my youngest DDs team.  The mom was upset because her kid didnt get on the "A" team and has to play on the "B" team.  I was unfortunate enough to say, "hows it going?' and I got an earful.

Rationalizations aside, her kid isnt that good.  When I mentioned that, mom said her daughter wasnt challenged and blamed the coach.

Few of our little darlings will be amongst the best of the best and that is a bitter pill to swallow.  Youth soccer is about development on and off the field.  Commitment, follow through, stick-to-it-tive-ness and grit are all qualities that develop along side ball handling and sportsmanship.  Looking for another team before the fall season is even posted lacks the character and commitment that I hope my kids will walk off the field with.

good luck...

btw-my dd is on the "B" team


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## timbuck (Aug 16, 2016)

I don't know all of the situations of the kids on the team, but.... It is summer. Lots of families take vacation. Some (gasp!!) even take a break from soccer.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 16, 2016)

Your reply would be funny if true. Ironically the at the club we loved, she was on the 'B' team and here she is on the 'A' team. My only concern is that my kid gets to play the game she loves with kids she can learn from and that motivate her to do her best. It's an unfair situation when half your team is either a no show or half asses it all the time. Like I said I don't blame the coach, it's just not the right fit for us and I have been upfront about our intentions. I just came to ask advice about the best way to go about it. If you want to presume that I am a dillusional parent that thinks my child is the next US Olympic star then go ahead. Whatever floats your boat.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 16, 2016)

timbuck said:


> I don't know all of the situations of the kids on the team, but.... It is summer. Lots of families take vacation. Some (gasp!!) even take a break from soccer.


Which I would have no problem with except that it hardly seems fair that some are rqd to attend and some aren't.


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## timbuck (Aug 16, 2016)

mommato2girls said:


> Which I would have no problem with except that it hardly seems fair that some are rqd to attend and some aren't.


Our team has a kid that played softball all spring and most of summer.  They made a deep run in the state/regional tournament.  They had planned to be at some of our spring soccer practices and games, but couldn't because of softball. 
Some teams take summer very serious.  Some see it as more of a "bonus" season that doesn't require as much of s commitment. 
We had another kid that was having some health issues and took a break. She just decided to skip the fall season. 
We had another kid who had the starring role in a play with a pretty intense practice schedule. 
Hopefully your coach can get those that are goofing off to fall in line a bit.  
And hopefully those that were missing a bit will be fully committed for the Fall season.


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## Laced (Aug 16, 2016)

My advice is to move as soon as you can, as a year is a big chunk of your DD's developmental window. If you get your coach's sympathetic ear and consent, get out now. However, per Calsouth rules, roster freeze period started Aug. 1 and lasts till the end of the season, or end of State/National Cup per SCDSL.


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## socalkdg (Aug 17, 2016)

mommato2girls said:


> Thanks for all the responses. We don't plan to leave until next year, we have no intention on jumping ship or teaching that to the kiddo. Her coach is a good guy, he's not in the best situation with a handful of parents that have zero commitment to the team. One girl we haven't seen in over a month, then we have a handful that ride the coach to play their kids in that one position that they favor and another handful that won't run after a ball unless it rolls right to their feet. it's no one persons fault. We were incredibly lucky with our last club before we moved, the girls all had very similar personalities, were all very competitive and became more like family by year end. I still don't know some of our current girls names bc they show up for practices so irregularly. Just a frustrating situation. I appreciate the advice.


The AYSO team I'm coaching this year sounds better than this club.  How could any person in their right mind even pay to be on a club like this.   Crazy.  The coach needs to step up, put the parents in their place, and motivate the kids to play soccer.   And this is the "A" team?  Hopefully you can find some type of silver lining this year.

 I'm glad I found this site a year ago and almost everyone stated find a coach you like that is good for your daughter and stay with them.  Followed that advice and so far so good.


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## Sped (Aug 17, 2016)

mommato2girls said:


> Thanks for all the responses. We don't plan to leave until next year, we have no intention on jumping ship or teaching that to the kiddo. Her coach is a good guy, he's not in the best situation with a handful of parents that have zero commitment to the team. One girl we haven't seen in over a month, then we have a handful that ride the coach to play their kids in that one position that they favor and another handful that won't run after a ball unless it rolls right to their feet. it's no one persons fault. We were incredibly lucky with our last club before we moved, the girls all had very similar personalities, were all very competitive and became more like family by year end. I still don't know some of our current girls names bc they show up for practices so irregularly. Just a frustrating situation. I appreciate the advice.


This part jumped out at me.  I'm all for kids playing on a team that they like, but are you sure you're not one of the parents you're talking about?  Thinking about leaving in August is not very committed to the team.


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## Zvezdas (Aug 17, 2016)

Out of curiosity, what happens if a team adds another player after August 1st? Can they petition Cal South and add him/her to official roster?


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## mommato2girls (Aug 17, 2016)

The thing is I listened to what the coach said at the tryouts and really liked what he was saying. He talked a lot about development and soccer strategy. My daughter liked him so we went with it. Unfortunately it hasn't panned out :/


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## mommato2girls (Aug 17, 2016)

Sped I think you're just angry for whatever reason and I genuinely hope you have a great day today. I didn't say anything about lvg August. I specifically said next year, as far as commitment, daughter attends 90% of practices  (yes we too have vacation and school events) conditions outside of practice bc the kid likes to run and plays futsal with an indoor league on a drop in basis. She loves soccer, this is my issue. The majority of the other kids don't, their parents might but the kids never want to join is for a run, pick up game, futsal league whatever. They have no desire. I am just wanting to find a team, A, B whatever that fits her personality. A huge part of soccer is the camaraderie that goes along with being part of a team and right now it is pretty much non existent.


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## timbuck (Aug 17, 2016)

How does your daughter feel?  11 years old is where they can start to have some pretty strong opinions.
Does she have friends at other clubs?
I think that us parents really underestimate the value of having solid friendships on sports teams.  For the 5% of the youth population that are "Stone Cold Killers" and want to win, dominate, destroy anything they come across, it's not as big of a deal.  Take those kids and move them to the best team, regardless of who their teammates are.  But for the other 95%, I think we are missing the boat.
The team that my 11 year old is on is very unique.  Everyone has a best friend (or a few) on the team.  There is ZERO drama among the players.  And I don't think there is any drama with the parents.
I'll give you an example.  We have 4 girls that entered 7th grade this year.  And 8 girls at the same school entering 6th grade this year (first year of middle school).  The 7th grade girls planned a day to take the 6th grade girls to school to show them around and decorate their lockers before school started.  And the kids who don't go to that school also showed up because they all wanted to be together.
We played in a Sand Soccer Tournament this summer.  We have a set of twins that weren't going to play.  They asked for the ability to play in the tournament to be their birthday present.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 17, 2016)

Timbuck my daughter is open to moving even though she has friends on the team. She is frustrated as well, she sees the girls not come to practice and play while the girls that come are reprimanded for being late and made to do laps. The truth is though if coach didn't play the girls who were no shows we couldn't field a team. She has friends at many different local clubs bc she played soccer for her school team and plays indoor futsal and meets kids from all over. She also meets many different coaches that way, and we've been approached at futsal from coaches who are interested. Her futsal league is actually ran by a different club. I wish our team had even an inkling of what your team has, I don't even know what school half the kids go to!


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## mommato2girls (Aug 17, 2016)

Sorry for all the weird replies everywhere, I'm still figuring out how to reply correctly!


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## jrcaesar (Aug 17, 2016)

mommato2girls said:


> while the girls that come are reprimanded for being late and made to do laps.


Oooh - this is not a good coach. You don't punish the child for the parents' issue (tardiness), this is not high school where the kids walk to the field after 6th period. Parents need to have a discussion with the coach.


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## espola (Aug 17, 2016)

Zvezdas said:


> Out of curiosity, what happens if a team adds another player after August 1st? Can they petition Cal South and add him/her to official roster?


If they are not already on some other team's roster, it can be done all online at the Cal South website.


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## mirage (Aug 17, 2016)

mommato2girls said:


> Sorry for all the weird replies everywhere, I'm still figuring out how to reply correctly!


Gotta ask you, mommato2girls, why did you start this thread now, instead of in November, if you are committed to stay until the next year, as you've originally said?

Get an early start on people's opinions and what others have to say about it?

Regardless of what you or TCD defending you say, its clear that your heart is in a different place than the team's going forward.  You also say that your kid wants to leave too but often is the case that the child reflect parent's position and feelings.    Isn't all this disingenuous to the team and the rest of the parents.  I'm talking about those parents that care and show up at practices.

If you're just venting, and it is cheaper than seeking therapy, so be it but....


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## Zvezdas (Aug 17, 2016)

espola said:


> If they are not already on some other team's roster, it can be done all online at the Cal South website.


 Yeah the kid is out of state, just moved to So Cal recently...


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## mommato2girls (Aug 17, 2016)

mirage said:


> Gotta ask you, mommato2girls, why did you start this thread now, instead of in November, if you are committed to stay until the next year, as you've originally said?
> 
> Get an early start on people's opinions and what others have to say about it?
> 
> ...


I wanted to ask the question of how to go about finding a new club for my daughter, and I was hoping for input on that. I didn't do a very good job researching and finding the right fit for her so I appreciate any insights. I've also been told to go practice and such before tryouts roll around, as that time is crazy. I'm not sure what to do, just email a coach and say hey we're looking at another team and would like to come out and watch practice? It's really for direction, and I appreciate the responses I have got. I'm kind of surprised that people take it so personally when someone wants to leave a team, if there was a kid on my daughter's team that wanted out and the parents were very upfront about it I would wish them well, why would anyone want someone there that didn't want to be there?


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## mirage (Aug 17, 2016)

mommato2girls said:


> I wanted to ask the question of how to go about finding a new club for my daughter, and I was hoping for input on that.....


Then this is the question that needed to be emphasized.  You added comments about unhappiness and leaving and, unfortunately, most (including myself) have tee offed on that aspect and not about find a new club/team.

You know the cliche, sometimes, less is more....



mommato2girls said:


> ..............I'm kind of surprised that people take it so personally when someone wants to leave a team, if there was a kid on my daughter's team that wanted out and the parents were very upfront about it I would wish them well, why would anyone want someone there that didn't want to be there?


Generally speaking, I agree with you view but many of us also believe in commitment made, commitment kept.  Its part of sportsmanship, its part of life.  The negatives must be dealt with positively and that too is development in life of a child.

Clearly, if someone doesn't want to be there, its usually best that they goto a place where they want to be at.  The rub is the commitment part.  It is always unique situation and generalization cannot be used.  Only you know the actual circumstances so its your challenge to balance teaching a child about commitment versus change in the face of breaking the intent.

In response to finding the right team and club, here are some recommendations:
1) Go watch one or two of the games (tournament is better than league but any game that means something).  This will give you the temperament of the coach and how he uses subs.  Also is the coach so focused on winning that the bench players only get few minutes on the pitch? 

2) Attend practices and see how he runs the training.  Goto at least two, and on the second training session, if there are other teams there, look how other teams in the same club is training.  Compare the sessions.

3) Talk to parents on the perspective team and see where their head is at.  Do you dislike them (don't have to like them but dislike is a problem)?

4) Consider and assess where your kid is at.  Make sure that your kid is in the top half of the talent of the team, and not in the bottom half.  This will avoid worrying about playing time for the most part.  Vast majority of kids like playing and not sitting on the bench.

5) Last, and perhaps most important.  What do you and your kid expect to get out of the relationship with the team?  This can be anything from winning lots to just development to be a better player.  In that spectrum of things, it helps to have realistic objectives for the year for your kid's soccer life.  It does two things, a) keeps focus on what is important to you, and b) a measuring stick to monitor progress toward achieving your goals for the season.

Beyond that, there are things like is the club DA/ECNL club, is the level of league right and roster size and so on.  Coach reputation can be misleading depending on who responds.  But be aware that a really good coach (usually because he wins a lot) that has built a reputation of strong teams may not spend the time to develop players on the bottom half of the roster (because he knows there are more waiting to join the team), and that a development focused coach may have mediocre to poor win-loss record teams, especially at younger.

Thanks for responding to the question.


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## timbuck (Aug 17, 2016)

Since you are planning to stick with the team for the fall season (which I think is the right move) can you try to take an active role in helping the team bond a bit more?
A pool/beach party, sleepover or just an organized lunch after a game can go a long way towards helping team relationships get stronger.  Get the parents to have a beer while the kids to whatever kids do when the coach isn't around.
I'm not sure where you are located at, but attending a Galaxy game or a female soccer game a college near you are also great ways to get everyone together.
Most coaches don't deal with this kind of stuff and expect the team manager to coordinate these things.  If your team manager just wants to deal with tournaments and fund collection, step up and try to make things better.  You might even find that some of the parents will also step up once they see you making an effort.


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## Wez (Aug 17, 2016)

mirage said:


> Isn't all this disingenuous to the team and the rest of the parents.


Please explain to me how asking questions on a soccer forum is "disingenuous"?  Is she expected to get non-conflicted advice from her Coach and Club leadership?  To me, this is the exact right place to air these kinds of thoughts and questions.  That's why it's called a discussion forum.


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## mirage (Aug 17, 2016)

Wez said:


> Please explain to me how asking questions on a soccer forum is "disingenuous"?  Is she expected to get non-conflicted advice from her Coach and Club leadership?  To me, this is the exact right place to air these kinds of thoughts and questions.  That's why it's called a discussion forum.


The comment is regarding to her action and the way she is looking at the whole situation.


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## Wez (Aug 17, 2016)

mirage said:


> The comment is regarding to her action and the way she is looking at the whole situation.


Please describe what about these comments you find "disingenuous".


mommato2girls said:


> It's been about 6 months into the season and we are 90% sure we are going to switch clubs next season for various reasons. We are debating on playing up a year and staying local or trying for a more 'elite' club at her age level. We've had several coaches reach out to us after tournaments and invite us over for practices, to check out the team etc but we are finishing up our year where we started and feel funny doing that early on. What is the protocol here for this type of thing? We've already told our coach our intentions and that we feel like it's just not the right fit for us so it wouldn't be taking him by surprise. Who has done this successfully? I'm hoping to find a great fit for her and not sure how to tackle it since I didn't do a very good job this season!


I see nothing but questions from a parent about her next steps as to what's best for her child.


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## mirage (Aug 17, 2016)

TCD said:


> Mirage, you need to make up your mind how you think the rest of us should write our forum questions. Recently I posted a question about my DD not wanting to play HS soccer this upcoming year and you told me I did not provide enough information...just sayin...


When you posted about your kid not wanting to play HS, it needed more info.  When she stated what the intent of her original post, it was sidetracked/confused with wanting to leave.  In other words, additional information did not clarify the root of her question.  In your case it lacked info to provide a meaningful response (for your benefit).


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## mirage (Aug 17, 2016)

Wez said:


> Please describe what about these comments you find "disingenuous".
> 
> 
> I see nothing but questions from a parent about her next steps as to what's best for her child.


Slow day?  Just want to banter?  Its my opinion and you disagree - done.


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## Wez (Aug 17, 2016)

mirage said:


> Slow day?  Just want to banter?  Its my opinion and you disagree - done.


Not trying to fight; I'm curious what could be construed as "disingenuous" from her comments and questions?  If any discussion of leaving a club is construed as suspect, I'd like to know why someone would feel that way and what that person views as an appropriate way to bring up the topic?


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## Sped (Aug 17, 2016)

TCD said:


> Sped - She didn't say they are thinking about leaving in August. Maybe you should read the second sentence again:  "We don't plan to leave until next year, we have no intention on jumping ship or teaching that to the kiddo."


It's August.  She's discussing how her kid will be leaving.  That's not very loyal to the team.


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## Sped (Aug 17, 2016)

mommato2girls said:


> Sped I think you're just angry for whatever reason and I genuinely hope you have a great day today. I didn't say anything about lvg August. I specifically said next year, as far as commitment, daughter attends 90% of practices  (yes we too have vacation and school events) conditions outside of practice bc the kid likes to run and plays futsal with an indoor league on a drop in basis. She loves soccer, this is my issue. The majority of the other kids don't, their parents might but the kids never want to join is for a run, pick up game, futsal league whatever. They have no desire. I am just wanting to find a team, A, B whatever that fits her personality. A huge part of soccer is the camaraderie that goes along with being part of a team and right now it is pretty much non existent.


I get it, and am not angry.  The season has really barely started.  There's a ton of soccer to play.  Why stress about what you're going to do next January at this stage?


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## mommato2girls (Aug 17, 2016)

We've been together since January. Played a full spring league, and 6 tournaments. I think that's more than enough time to figure out its not a good fit. Tryouts may start January but (and correct me if I'm wrong) it's better to get to know other coaches and clubs prior to tryouts. There's only 4 months of soccer between now and then. That's less than the time we've already spent with the team.


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## Laced (Aug 17, 2016)

Sped said:


> It's August.  She's discussing how her kid will be leaving.  That's not very loyal to the team.


She's shown loyalty to her daughter, commitment to her daughter's best interests. Good soccer mom. Period.


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## jrcaesar (Aug 17, 2016)

mommato2girls said:


> Played a full spring league, and 6 tournaments.


That's a lot of tournament money spent at this age. I'd wonder about that, too.


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## timbuck (Aug 17, 2016)

jrcaesar said:


> That's a lot of tournament money spent at this age. I'd wonder about that, too.


I thought the same thing. If the players aren't showing up and the ones who are aren't very good, why spend the money/travel on 6 tournaments?  
Play some friendlies. Even a few per day if you must.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 17, 2016)

jrcaesar said:


> That's a lot of tournament money spent at this age. I'd wonder about that, too.


Is it? I never thought about it. Our old u11 team played about the same.  About 2 every summer month and then a fall/labor day and a Halloween one.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 17, 2016)

timbuck said:


> I thought the same thing. If the players aren't showing up and the ones who are aren't very good, why spend the money/travel on 6 tournaments?
> Play some friendlies. Even a few per day if you must.


You echoed my husbands sentiments almost word for word!!


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## Wez (Aug 18, 2016)

Sped said:


> It's August.  She's discussing how her kid will be leaving.  That's not very loyal to the team.


So asking questions on a discussion forum about leaving her team next year is being dis-loyal to her team?


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## lancer (Aug 18, 2016)

I wonder if it would be a better fit if thet were winning.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 18, 2016)

Lancer they were actually champions of their last tournament. But I think they just played in the entirely wrong flight. Has nothing to do with it. Winning/losing. There is no development, no camaraderie, inconsistent coaching, rules etc. I don't take pleasure in watching kids blow out other teams bc they aren't playing where they should be. They haven't developed several things playing back to keeper, crossing effectively, passing down field. It's definitely the stronger, bigger, faster girls running down the side and taking shots on the goal until one goes in. Defense kicking the ball out of bounds as soon as there is pressure. No working on getting out of tight passes, communication on the field. All these things I think of as development. I wonder if it's just in the soccer world where parents think the worst of each other? You don't know me at all, I asked for advice and I've been told I'm disloyal, only focus on winning etc, etc.


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## lancer (Aug 18, 2016)

Of course I don't know you.  However, I have been a team manager for more years than I'd like to admit.  When our teams have a winning season we have to turn talented players away, but finish at the bottom of a bracket and parents start looking for a better fit.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 18, 2016)

I never said they weren't winning either  people just assume that bc I'm unhappy. Says a lot more about others. Huge difference between winning and developing.


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## timbuck (Aug 18, 2016)

mommato2girls said:


> Lancer they were actually champions of their last tournament. But I think they just played in the entirely wrong flight. Has nothing to do with it. Winning/losing. There is no development, no camaraderie, inconsistent coaching, rules etc. I don't take pleasure in watching kids blow out other teams bc they aren't playing where they should be. They haven't developed several things playing back to keeper, crossing effectively, passing down field. It's definitely the stronger, bigger, faster girls running down the side and taking shots on the goal until one goes in. Defense kicking the ball out of bounds as soon as there is pressure. No working on getting out of tight passes, communication on the field. All these things I think of as development. I wonder if it's just in the soccer world where parents think the worst of each other? You don't know me at all, I asked for advice and I've been told I'm disloyal, only focus on winning etc, etc.


Good insight on what you are not happy with.  Many of the things you mention should be starting to happen at this age group. But it takes discipline, practice, teammate trust and skill to do it.
1.  Playing back to the keeper -  Is your keeper competent?  Does she communicate? How's' her first touch with her feet?
2.  Crossing effectively -  Are they not crossing at all?  Are they crossing and nobody is there to receive it?  Are they shanking it out of bounds when they try?
3.  Passing downfield - How are they scoring/winning tournaments if they aren't passing forward?  
4. Kicking it out of bounds -  Bad habits are hard to break.  This one is something that lots of u-little coaches teach (because it is effective at stopping an attack).  "When in doubt, kick it out" is something that many 8-9 year olds have heard repeatedly.  It's crap coaching,  but it's out there.  My assistant wanted us to donk it out of bounds at the smallest sign of trouble.  We disagreed.  He's not with me anymore (not because of this).
5.  Communication -  one of the easiest things for a kid to do (they all know how to talk and it doesn't matter if they can sprint fast, smash a ball or dribble through 5 defenders.  They can all talk).  But for some reason, it's hard to get the girls to do it all the time.  I think with girls it's even harder.  They don't want to be seen as "bossy" or as ball hogs.  Have them go and watch a girls college soccer game.   They are constantly talking on the field.

Now -  If your team has several girls who are new to the big field (I think your daughter is an 05, right?), there is some time to adjust.  And if many of them are weaker players, hopefully your coach is trying to work on technical aspects of the game.  If you have kids who are toe poking the ball and can't do a sole roll at pace, there's really no sense in trying to spend an entire practice working to get them to pass the ball backwards to a keeper.  If they receive a ball incorrectly (too big of a touch, too small of a touch, skipping it up in the air), they need to work on the technical aspect of passing and receiving before they can fully work on combination play, switching the field, etc.  Or if on defense they all want to dive in, there's no sense in trying to get them to play out of the back if they don't understand "pressure, cover, balance" concepts.

And if you have a 15 player roster, but haven't had all 15 together at practices all summer, the kids who aren't aware of what the coach "might" be trying to teach will fall back to their old habits.  If little Suzie is playing right back and hasn't been at practice in 5 weeks, telling her to kick it out of bounds when she is in trouble isn't the worst advice (it's not great advice, but it's better than Suzie flubbing it, costing her team a few goals and crushing her confidence).


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 18, 2016)

Sped said:


> It's August.  She's discussing how her kid will be leaving.  That's not very loyal to the team.


Sped, you know a thing or 2 about changing clubs.  Maybe instead of judging her for seeking out advise, you could do something constructive and share in your experience....offer some advice....be helpful.


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## socalkdg (Aug 18, 2016)

People talk about loyalty to a team,  so the question is should that go both ways?    If you are made promises when you sign up and they don't materialize, what should you do?

Lets say you are told 15 max on a team and all kids play and you end up with 18 and 6 ride the bench?   Your promised certain training, but it doesn't happen?  What recourse do you have?  What should you do for your kid?   I"m thankful I"m not in this situation, but I imagine many are, and to lose a whole season would seem to be a terrible thing if your son or daughter were truly unhappy.


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## Sped (Aug 18, 2016)

socalkdg said:


> People talk about loyalty to a team,  so the question is should that go both ways?    If you are made promises when you sign up and they don't materialize, what should you do?
> 
> Lets say you are told 15 max on a team and all kids play and you end up with 18 and 6 ride the bench?   Your promised certain training, but it doesn't happen?  What recourse do you have?  What should you do for your kid?   I"m thankful I"m not in this situation, but I imagine many are, and to lose a whole season would seem to be a terrible thing if your son or daughter were truly unhappy.


There's a full spring and summer to feel that stuff out and split if you were lied to.


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## Sped (Aug 18, 2016)

Wez said:


> So asking questions on a discussion forum about leaving her team next year is being dis-loyal to her team?


oh my.  Her complaint was that other parents weren't loyal to the team and here she is talking about how her kid is leaving next year and asking how soon she can start contacting other teams.  I think the word I'm looking for is hypocrite.


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## Wez (Aug 18, 2016)

Sped said:


> oh my.  Her complaint was that other parents weren't loyal to the team and here she is talking about how her kid is leaving next year and asking how soon she can start contacting other teams.  I think the word I'm looking for is hypocrite.


I did see her mention:


mommato2girls said:


> Her coach is a good guy, he's not in the best situation with a handful of parents that have zero commitment to the team. One girl we haven't seen in over a month, then we have a handful that ride the coach to play their kids in that one position that they favor and another handful that won't run after a ball unless it rolls right to their feet.


...not sure how that makes her a hypocrite because she is seeking information about changing clubs.

So Sped, what is the proper protocol for discussing leaving a team on a discussion board?


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## socalkdg (Aug 18, 2016)

Sped said:


> There's a full spring and summer to feel that stuff out and split if you were lied to.


So up until August 1 you can switch clubs?  Thus play with the club for a few months and make a decision?   When is the earliest that you could leave a club once signed after August 1?  Once again not interested in doing any of this, just wondering what the rules of these things are.


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## Sped (Aug 18, 2016)

socalkdg said:


> So up until August 1 you can switch clubs?  Thus play with the club for a few months and make a decision?   When is the earliest that you could leave a club once signed after August 1?  Once again not interested in doing any of this, just wondering what the rules of these things are.


the day after the league season ends, I guess.  But at that point, not sure what the benefit is to just sticking with it another month or so and then doing tryouts like everyone else.


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## Sped (Aug 18, 2016)

Wez said:


> I did see her mention:
> 
> 
> ...not sure how that makes her a hypocrite because she is seeking information about changing clubs.
> ...


Wait until the league season is over, ask who's taking new players in for practices in advance of tryouts.  Until then, what's the point?  I fail to see how it's anything but hypocritical to complain about parent loyalty when you're on a board discussing next year's move in August.


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## timbuck (Aug 18, 2016)

I think this thread is also a good reminder to make sure that your kid is on a team that is at the right level.  If your kid is a superstar on a Flight 3 team (not saying this is the case with the OP), then they may get frustrated with players that aren't as advanced.  Kinda like having a 3rd grader that reads at a 7th grade level reading books for 3rd graders.  They get bored and can't understand why the rest of the kids are on page 7 when your kid has finished the book.


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## Wez (Aug 18, 2016)

Sped said:


> Wait until the league season is over, ask who's taking new players in for practices in advance of tryouts.  Until then, what's the point?


So despite saying she was going to finish the season with her current team, in your opinion, she shouldn't even discuss her move and how to best go about it?

When does the season end officially, after State Cup?  That could be well into tryout season, so she isn't allowed to ask questions here until well after next tryout season has begun?

Me thinks you dislike the thought of anyone leaving a club for any reason...at least that's how it seems.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 18, 2016)

I hope if anything this helps other parents learn more about the rules about this stuff. I didn't know about the August 1st rule or after Thanksgiving. I never thought to ask as I didn't sign up for the club thinking I wouldn't be happy with it. As for me loyalty and commitment are different. My loyalty lies with my kiddo. However she is committed to playing her best for this team just as I am committed to making sure she is well rested, conditioned, at practice and games to the best of our abilities. I think we're kind of beating a dead horse now. I get you disagree with what I'm asking, your opinion is noted. Thanks everyone for your input.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 18, 2016)

timbuck said:


> I think this thread is also a good reminder to make sure that your kid is on a team that is at the right level.  If your kid is a superstar on a Flight 3 team (not saying this is the case with the OP), then they may get frustrated with players that aren't as advanced.  Kinda like having a 3rd grader that reads at a 7th grade level reading books for 3rd graders.  They get bored and can't understand why the rest of the kids are on page 7 when your kid has finished the book.


Timbuck this! How do you find out a) what level your kid is at? And b) what team plays at that appropriate level? The names and labels are horrible. Her old B team was far more advanced skill set wise than her current A team. Even though one is considered a 'premiere' team. Her coaches call her an 'impact player' or a 'playmaker' but I've seen her beat numerous times against better trained teams. It is crazy to try and navigate this without any knowledge of the area, clubs, coaches and teams.


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## espola (Aug 18, 2016)

socalkdg said:


> So up until August 1 you can switch clubs?  Thus play with the club for a few months and make a decision?   When is the earliest that you could leave a club once signed after August 1?  Once again not interested in doing any of this, just wondering what the rules of these things are.


You can still switch during the Roster Freeze (Aug 1 through Thanksgiving weekend), it just takes more time and paperwork, and the team/club losing the player has an opportunity to deny or delay the transfer.

The rules on transfers seem to swing back and forth over the years, so it is always wise to review the latest edition.  Release and transfer is Rule 1.5, starting on page 8 --

http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/About_Us/08.2013CalSouthRulesandRegulations.pdf?rev=CA0E


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## Laced (Aug 18, 2016)

Sped said:


> There's a full spring and summer to feel that stuff out and split if you were lied to.


In reality, practically all clubs require players to make full payment before Aug. 1 without getting any refund should a player decide to leave before Aug. 1. There's a builtin deterrence for players to leave. There're relative few games in spring and summer. Many coaches do change. A coach's fit with player changes. Practically, all a parent can, and should do, is to constantly look for the best fit for his/her own kid. And worry about his own kid's development.

I find it ironic that most parents who demand loyalty from other players tend to do so only with starters. They don't give a damn if a bench player leaves. Pretty obvious what their priorities are.


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## espola (Aug 19, 2016)

Laced said:


> In reality, practically all clubs require players to make full payment before Aug. 1 without getting any refund should a player decide to leave before Aug. 1. There's a builtin deterrence for players to leave. There're relative few games in spring and summer. Many coaches do change. A coach's fit with player changes. Practically, all a parent can, and should do, is to constantly look for the best fit for his/her own kid. And worry about his own kid's development.
> 
> I find it ironic that most parents who demand loyalty from other players tend to do so only with starters. They don't give a damn if a bench player leaves. Pretty obvious what their priorities are.


In reality, practically all clubs offer payment plans spread over the fall season with a small discount for paying the whole fee early.


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## socalkdg (Aug 19, 2016)

espola said:


> In reality, practically all clubs offer payment plans spread over the fall season with a small discount for paying the whole fee early.


We had to pay $500 over 10 months.  Just put our checks in an envelope with the date we wanted it to be cashed, either one lump sum, $100 x 5, $250 x 2, our choice.  The $500 was less than I pay for one month of my older daughters dance. The moral of the story is to not let your daughter dance competitively.


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## Truth (Aug 19, 2016)

Depends on the club, but I tell parents who are shopping around to keep it to themselves. Many coaches who hear that you are practicing with another team take it as a personal insult. I know this first-hand, years ago. My son's best friend played for another local club and he joined a few practices in a row since he was staying over with the friend while we visited family out of state. When we got back we started getting the stink eye on the sidelines and then suddenly my son who never came out was playing 10 minutes a half. Asked the coach about it and he basically said "I give playing time to kids who are committed." and "You literally spit in my face by going behind my back". I was stunned - it's physically impossible to spit in someone's face if their back is turned to you, but whatever. Somehow I doubt telling him about the practices beforehand would have made his reaction any better. That was followed by a conversation with an aggressive DoC who basically told us to leave the club. 

Point of the story is I would be careful about how you go about looking for another club midseason.


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## Wez (Aug 19, 2016)

Truth said:


> When we got back we started getting the stink eye on the sidelines and then suddenly my son who never came out was playing 10 minutes a half. Asked the coach about it and he basically said "I give playing time to kids who are committed." and "You literally spit in my face by going behind my back". I was stunned - it's physically impossible to spit in someone's face if their back is turned to you, but whatever. Somehow I doubt telling him about the practices beforehand would have made his reaction any better. That was followed by a conversation with an aggressive DoC who basically told us to leave the club.
> 
> Point of the story is I would be careful about how you go about looking for another club midseason.


A clear example of the club forgetting who writes the checks.  If it was a full sponsorship thing I could understand more, but my paying huge money "and" giving tons of my time to help manage my kids teams, in my mind, means I set the rules, not the other way around.  If another team has something of value to offer my kids, you can bet your ass I'm going to explore it.  That doesn't mean I'm going to break any commitments, but nobody here has said that is what they are doing.

Asking questions here is the right thing to be doing and what you do with your child in your time is your business, not anyone else's.

It is all about the kids development, right?


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## timbuck (Aug 19, 2016)

I think telling/not telling is a touchy situation. You need to really judge it by how you think the coach will handle it.  And align what you say with any expectations that the coach / club set early on.
As a parent, you absolutely have the right to do what is ever best for your kid.  If that means leaving a club mid-season, that is up to you.  You also need to decide if you should tell your coach about it.  I don't see it really helping anything. Especially if you say "Hey coach.  We are 90% sure we are going to leave next year."  Does the coach then need to kiss a$$ to try and sway you to stay?  
As a coach, if you are focused on development and you have a parent saying "You've got my kid for 3 months and then I'm going somewhere else", you are in a tough situation.  You want the kids who are planning to stick around to really develop because they will be with you next year.  As a coach, you probably want to feel like all of your kids are going to leave at the end of the season. That way you put in extra effort to make sure that they all love the game, develop and get good playing time.  But if you know someone is DEFINITELY leaving, why give that kid extra minutes?

Here's how I "might" approach it. 
"Hey Coach.  Let me know when you have a few minutes.  I wanted to talk with you about Little Suzie.  What do you think about her?  Her role on the team?  How she will develop playing with this team?"
If the stuff the OP mentioned are obvious, the coach is probably already aware of your concerns.
The coach might have a master plan for Little Suzy. He may realize that she is on the wrong team.  He may even have recommendations for where she would be a better fit.  And he may tell you his plan to keep her engaged and what he will do to push her development on her current team.

I know as a kid, I played for plenty of bad coaches.  I don't ever recall any discussion of being taken off of the team to move to something else.  I sucked at baseball and played on a really good team.  I barely played.  I hated it.  But there was NEVER a thought to bail out.  I was 11 years old.  And the first year I played tackle football, I was terrible  Many of the kids had already been playing for a few year.  I didn't HATE it, but the coaches saw me as a 3rd string nobody as a 6th grader.  I never missed a practice.  I never missed a game (even though I barely played).  And I'm pretty sure I liked it.


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 19, 2016)

Sped said:


> Wait until the league season is over, ask who's taking new players in for practices in advance of tryouts.  Until then, what's the point?  I fail to see how it's anything but hypocritical to complain about parent loyalty when you're on a board discussing next year's move in August.


Once again you are mincing words...the "loyalty" in question would be better served using the word "commitment".  It would appear based on her account that the other parents lack the commitment to the team.  She plans to keep her commitment to the team by showing up, practicing and remaining with the team thru the season.  How is that hypocritical???  If you lease a car and it just isn't running right, are you disloyal to the car manufacturer if you look at other cars before your lease is up?

Here you are attacking individuals again for things you perceive to be wrong, thought you learned from the last time....from everything I've read, she is trying to go about this in the best way possible and with as little disruption to their current situation as possible and you find the need to troll her for it....why?  What is more hypocritical, someone who has stated they will honor their commitment or someone bashing that person even though they themselves have  done the same thing (switched teams at the end of the season that is)?  

What time in the season did you start looking at other clubs last year?  Did you wait till after it was all over to start reaching out to people about certain coaches and/or teams?

Lighten up on the people looking for help!


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## Laced (Aug 19, 2016)

espola said:


> In reality, practically all clubs offer payment plans spread over the fall season with a small discount for paying the whole fee early.


Your reality is outdated.


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## espola (Aug 19, 2016)

Laced said:


> Your reality is outdated.


Perhaps your reality has limited scope.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 19, 2016)

It hasn't been my experience either that you have time to pay until fall either, but my reality is limited as we are only 3 years into this. The pattern seems to be you pay uniform and club fee first, then get a breakdown of tourneys and whatever other moneys due for the year and we pay that in payments but for us it was due within the first 3 months. So we had tryouts in Jan, paid dues/uniform in Feb, started spring season, had one big fundraiser and then paid the rest of the years fees either in one chunk or in 3 payments. Last year was pretty much the same except the parents opted out of fundraising and we just paid the whole thing out of pocket. But on the bright side we are done paying for the year, except hotel costs for out of town tournaments.


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 19, 2016)

espola said:


> In reality, practically all clubs offer payment plans spread over the fall season with a small discount for paying the whole fee early.


This is true with most average to larger clubs.  It is the case for both my DD's club but uniform as and Team Fees are separate.


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## jrcaesar (Aug 19, 2016)

*Loyalty: *I'm going to do everything I can promote the club because I am an invested partner or I'm sure that we will be part of this club for the next 7 years! Nothing is going to change that, because I love my club so much! Even if the coach leaves or other players come onto my team or my player's situation changes! Heck, I don't even check to see if the monthly direct-deductions from my checking account are correct! 

*Commitment: *I'm going to make sure my child is at practices and games, and do my best to support this team. The coach and club will be recruiting new players after this season, just like they do every year, and my child is free to check out other opportunities as well. 

IMHO, loyalty only applies to coaches who are vested financially in a club. Otherwise it's all a series of short commitments.


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## SCS Fan (Aug 19, 2016)

To others who might be considering this type of move - at all times when dealing with anyone only provide information on a need to know basis and November is around the time you contact other teams to practice with them to see if you like the team and coach and vice versa.
The hard part comes when the new team wants you for State cup and you might feel committed or loyal to the previous team to paly State cup with them, in most cases your best off going with the new team as you're looking to the future and moving on.  The main reason for this is because tryouts for the next season take place before State cup and new teams need the player commitment.  It sucks, but that is the way it is.  And if the current coach is pressuring you in December to commit to the next season they don't necessarily deserve an honest answer.  All is fair in love and war and club soccer.  Again that is just the way it is.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 19, 2016)

So if you try out and make a new team you are expected to play State Cup with your new team? Not your old team? I thought there was a roster freeze date for State Cup early on? Can you guest with your new team for State Cup? For example, my daughter plays 04 but is an 05. If she tries out and makes an 05 team could she not guest with them while still playing with her old team and fulfilling that commitment? This stuff is confusing!


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## mirage (Aug 19, 2016)

Well this thread certainly has evoked various perspectives and emotions from our community about changing teams and when.  One of the things that make the subject so difficult is that we all have our own kid's vested interest.

If one removes the child and look at it purely as business relationship, then the following couple of things stand out:

1) One enters a contract for a season (as defined in each respective contract) and the termination clause are articulated within the contract (e.g., no refunds, may not be released to play for others and so on...).  The contract implies that both parties will honor the terms.  This include the signed players will not be dropped during the contract period, in favor of new/better player by the team/club side, and parents will not take the player out of the contract in favor of another team.  It also typically includes that the club soccer is the priority sports for the player.  There are things that change, like moving out of the area, player wants to quit playing, and so on. But for the most part, its a two-way agreement that is supposed to be honored by both sides.

2) Since its a business relationship, one has to look after the best interest of own benefit.  Problems occur usually as results from the other party not living up to the expectations, implicit or explicit, when the agreement was signed.  Once the failure to meet exceptions is established, there are various remedies that include corrective actions to get back on track to ending the relationship.  The range is large and the remedy is different case by case (including the personality of the coach and the parents).  If departure is selected during the contract period, CalSouth (governing body) will arbitrate and most often will force the club to release the player.

Like anything in business, ethics and integrity is a paramount - by both sides.  Which now brings the discussion back to this thread.  There is no simply if this, then that type of response that fits every situation, I believe.  It is highly case-by-case situation.

Most club contracts stipulates the season as from the time of signing to the end of the State tournament.  It is typically April~March for Younger and June~May for Olders.  The notion of leaving your current team to go play State Cup with the new team, my sense, is a mistake.  Because most teams want to sign you for the new upcoming season while the majority of the current team players have not renewed their contract.  One has no idea if all, most, half or few players are coming back.  This include the coach.  Most coaches are on annual renewal and they change clubs just as players do for a better deal.  I've seen a coach sign players up then move to a new club.  It may or may not workout with the new coach the club assigns or if you've paid and want to follow the coach, its money lost in the transaction.

If you know that the new team is willing to have you kid just "guest" during the State tournament, and you move before the roster freeze date, maybe....

So, there you go....

Btw, the best way to get onto a new, good team is by skipping the official "Tryout" date and workout with the team prior to the official date.  When I moved my then U12 kid years ago, I had him workout in January and secured a spot (verbal commitment only) with the new team while finishing State Cup with the old team.  At the end of the tournament, we left and moved onto the new club.  He attended one practice a week with the new team, while finishing with the old.


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## Laced (Aug 19, 2016)

mommato2girls said:


> So if you try out and make a new team you are expected to play State Cup with your new team? Not your old team? I thought there was a roster freeze date for State Cup early on? Can you guest with your new team for State Cup? For example, my daughter plays 04 but is an 05. If she tries out and makes an 05 team could she not guest with them while still playing with her old team and fulfilling that commitment? This stuff is confusing!


There're two sets of rules in play: CalSouth's and each individual league's. CalSouth allows players to move the first Monday after Thanksgiving. Some leagues have more restrictive rules, and I'm only familiar with SCDSL rules. SCDSL allows transfer only after State/National Cup. The more restrictive rules govern. If the outgoing DOC approves the transfer and releases you, these rules don't apply.

On the other hand, there no rules restricting clubs from getting new players who just moved from outside CalSouth's or league's jurisdiction. It's a one-sided restriction. Clubs are not restricted to keep the roster size the same, and are free to change coaches anytime, but players cannot move around even when the coach or club no longer fits his/her development and you've made full payment.

Guesting is a whole different topic.


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## mirage (Aug 19, 2016)

Wez, its always ok to talk about what to do and when to do it on the forum, as you've suggested - I agree that this is an open forum for anyone to discuss matters that concerns or interests them.

The problem appears when we all get tangled up on "what's the right thing to do" kind of thinking.  Everyone, including you and me, have our own bias and options about the subject.

So, when are you leaving your team and how soon?

We've moved our kids from one large club to two different clubs for the new season.  We did it at the end of National Cup at the field for the older kid.  We already had a team to go for the older kid.  Worked on forming a new team with the coach and parents for over 6 months prior to leaving.  Its a team made up of mostly ex-DA players who all wants to play high school from all over SoCal.  I guess we started the idea up in September last year with some of the parents so not that far off from the OP.  Just didn't discuss it with anyone outside of the core (new) team.  

The younger kid's coach got a promotion (his day job) and could not continue so we found a new team in late May.  So far worked out great but the coach we signed with is changing his role within the club so we'll have a new coach starting in September.  The new coach sounds great on paper (just coming over from UK and was the ManU youth academy coach there, starting a new life in CA with his family) so we'll see.


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## Wez (Aug 19, 2016)

mirage said:


> Wez, its always ok to talk about what to do and when to do it on the forum, as you've suggested - I agree that this is an open forum for anyone to discuss matters that concerns or interests them.


It's not only "ok", it's literally the type of thing this forum is designed for.  Calling someone a hypocrite for asking questions on a discussion forum, in advance of an already stated goal of finishing the current season, is nonsense.


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## SCS Fan (Aug 19, 2016)

mommato2girls said:


> So if you try out and make a new team you are expected to play State Cup with your new team? Not your old team? I thought there was a roster freeze date for State Cup early on? Can you guest with your new team for State Cup? For example, my daughter plays 04 but is an 05. If she tries out and makes an 05 team could she not guest with them while still playing with her old team and fulfilling that commitment? This stuff is confusing!


The roster freeze dates for State cup will allow you to play for your old team or new team, you can check the Cal South website State Tournament Sections for roster freeze dates.  I believe it actually is considered "Guesting" when you play State Cup with the new team, but you effectively leave your old team and start training with the new team, at least I can't imagine a coach having you play state cup with them when you are not practicing with them.  Whether you play for the new team or the old team is a case by case situation.  Some new teams want and need players and some don't.  I think new teams will respect players wanting to honor commitment to old team, but again if they need players they will press to have you join with them.  You need to be mindful that coaches (like players/parents) have self-interests and have their eye on next season.  Coaches want to make sure they have full teams with the players they want and players/parents want to be in the best situation for the next season.  It's tricky because it all overlaps.


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## mirage (Aug 19, 2016)

Wez said:


> It's not only "ok", it's literally the type of thing this forum is designed for.  Calling someone a hypocrite for asking questions on a discussion forum, in advance of an already stated goal of finishing the current season, is nonsense.


The action or the intent is being called hypocrite (don't recall who said it) because it is being interpreted by that person as such.  You can disagree just as the poster who expressed his opinion about it see it differently.  It is as you say, "it's literally the type of thing this forum is designed for."  It is an open forum.

Don't confuse the expression of  personal opinion with act of posting itself.  The fact that you or I, do or do not agree with the poster is irrelevant in the context of the forum.  Its just another opinion.


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## Sped (Aug 19, 2016)

Wez said:


> It's not only "ok", it's literally the type of thing this forum is designed for.  Calling someone a hypocrite for asking questions on a discussion forum, in advance of an already stated goal of finishing the current season, is nonsense.


actually I called her a hypocrite for complaining about parents on the team who weren't loyal while she's on the board talking about how they're bolting the team.  I have no problem with kids leaving teams.  I just think it's funny that disloyal parents were one of her problems.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 19, 2016)

Sped you are confusing my complaint with lack of commitment and loyalty. I didn't complain about loyalty. I complained about commitment. Not being comitted to bringing the girls to practice, games. Not making sure they're getting conditioning or being well rested. That is what I mean by being committed. I may not be loyal to our club in your eyes bc I am looking for something different for my kid but I can tell you my daughter is one of the most committed on the team. She is there to help her team win, and wether they do or not she will play her hardest, practice her hardest and condition outside of practice. She takes pride in her effort, her soccer game no matter where she plays. We clearly disagree, not sure why this part of this post needs to be rehashed time and time again.


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## jrcaesar (Aug 19, 2016)

mommato2girls said:


> I may not be loyal to our club in your eyes bc I am looking for something different for my kid but I can tell you my daughter is one of the most committed on the team.


I agree with you. *Loyalty *is what a club/employer/organization buys when *they pay you. *


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## Laced (Aug 19, 2016)

mirage said:


> Well this thread certainly has evoked various perspectives and emotions from our community about changing teams and when.  One of the things that make the subject so difficult is that we all have our own kid's vested interest.
> 
> If one removes the child and look at it purely as business relationship, then the following couple of things stand out:
> 
> ...


When you talk about contract, you're talking about a legally binding relationship. I don't know how to put it politely, but that's a very lame, laughable legal analysis by a layman.


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## mirage (Aug 20, 2016)

Laced said:


> When you talk about contract, you're talking about a legally binding relationship. I don't know how to put it politely, but that's a very lame, laughable legal analysis by a layman.


LOL, I agree.  Its not meant as a legal analysis.  You're probably a lawyer. 

It was simply what a part of contract used by many clubs when they commit a player - for parents to sign it.  And typical reasons why things go wrong - mismatch of expectations.


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## Sped (Aug 20, 2016)

mommato2girls said:


> Sped you are confusing my complaint with lack of commitment and loyalty. I didn't complain about loyalty. I complained about commitment. Not being comitted to bringing the girls to practice, games. Not making sure they're getting conditioning or being well rested. That is what I mean by being committed. I may not be loyal to our club in your eyes bc I am looking for something different for my kid but I can tell you my daughter is one of the most committed on the team. She is there to help her team win, and wether they do or not she will play her hardest, practice her hardest and condition outside of practice. She takes pride in her effort, her soccer game no matter where she plays. We clearly disagree, not sure why this part of this post needs to be rehashed time and time again.


Fair enough.  But even then, is it the team or the club?  Will next year's team be the same?  My thought is that teams can be good or bad by season, but clubs tend to be pretty consistent one way or another.  My kid left a club because of the club, not her team.  In fact, she left the club despite her team.


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## Laced (Aug 20, 2016)

mirage said:


> LOL, I agree.  Its not meant as a legal analysis.  You're probably a lawyer.
> 
> It was simply what a part of contract used by many clubs when they commit a player - for parents to sign it.  And typical reasons why things go wrong - mismatch of expectations.


You're a good sport.

It would be clearer and more constructive to talk about a legal or business relationship in terms of "meeting of the minds" or contractual duty or obligations. A party's expectation is just that without a meeting of the minds or a clearly-stated and mutually-agreed-to contractual duty. When parents sign their kids up for a club, they know they have a duty to pay club dues in return for proper coaching, but most if not all of them don't expect losing the ability to move their kids around if the club no longer fits their kids developmental needs or if the club fails to live up to its end of the bargain. Therefore, there's no "meeting of the minds." The duty to stay with the same club as a contractual duty is unilaterally imposed by CalSouth and clubs. How do we know that there's no meeting of the minds on the specific issue of player movement? Just look at the number of parents who're surprised that they can't move.


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## espola (Aug 20, 2016)

Laced said:


> The duty to stay with the same club as a contractual duty is unilaterally imposed by CalSouth and clubs.


No, it's not.  Cal South recognizes the possibility of players changing clubs and manages it in an orderly way for minimal cost ($25 the last time I looked).


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## Laced (Aug 20, 2016)

espola said:


> No, it's not.  Cal South recognizes the possibility of players changing clubs and manages it in an orderly way for minimal cost ($25 the last time I looked).


As usual, you just babble with out any accurate information or relevance.

CalSouth's transfer rules

_If your release and transfer will occur during the Fall Roster Freeze period between August 1 and the first Monday after Thanksgiving, the following will apply:_

• The Fall Season roster freeze period is from August 1st through the 1st Monday after Thanksgiving

• A Release and Transfer is only allowed during this time period when initiated online by the parent and uncontested by both the releasing and incoming club

- There is a maximum of 7 days for the releasing registrar to contest the transfer request online, otherwise the request is deemed approved

• If contested, the parent may appeal. The parent must initiate the appeal process within 3 days and pay the $100 appeal fee (refundable if transfer is granted on appeal). Otherwise, the transfer is denied


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## espola (Aug 20, 2016)

Laced said:


> As usual, you just babble with out any accurate information or relevance.
> 
> CalSouth's transfer rules
> 
> ...



The overwhelming majority of transfers requested during the roster freeze period are granted without being contested.  In those cases that were successfully contested (I assume you know of some, otherwise your response is pointless), what was the reason for not granting the transfer?


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## espola (Aug 20, 2016)

Laced said:


> As usual, you just babble with out any accurate information or relevance.


For example???


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## RoguePortero (Aug 23, 2016)

How would one assess a situation that results in three different coaches since March with last one being placed just after the August 1st deadline? Not trying to hijack that s thread but I think this is part of why this thread is so active. I think parents are concerned with the volatility of coaching staffs and the lack of consistency of coaching style and "development" vs. "win at all costs" philosophies, and the lack of personality management on teams.


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## RuffRef (Oct 29, 2019)

Ha ha..ha..   My kid played this last year with 6 teams , on 4 Clubs in 6 months.  it was an expiriment in creating relationships, and play soccer in different competitive atmospheres.   TOTAL SUCCESS... different age groups, different skill levels,  different game intensity..    Initially the club he signed and played with (late july 2018)  was a championship team in the division and made it to state cup finals,,(it dragged on many weeks). This was our first year in club,,i didnt know how the process worked.  Our DOC decided he'd keep charging me additional fee monthly well beyond the payment window. (i was blind) I noticed he start acting funny,,,  and tried to pacify me with hats and t=shirts..... As state cup passed 75% of the team jumped ship for other teams keen to parlay on the success. My son was the one of two "loyal" guys still bailing water out the boat. The age group going into a new format needed 8-9 players.  so there were no games  or scrimages for 6 weeks , player shortages ,  and at times 4 kids at practice.  We ask to play as a guest for another team,  the coach refused,,, said he'd never let "my player" play elsewhere.    Thats when i called CalSouth and found out the rules, roster freezes etc..  of being a guest player and Summer pass player card.   My son ended up playing 28 games plus many practices/scrimmages  over spring / summer with other teams.  and those coaches were  happy to have him even thou he was not going to commit for the 2019 season. My kid made Tons of friends , played every weekend for free,  or paid  tourney fee.  developed 3-5 xtimes over,   whats great is there is an open door for him to come again and guest with some of the teams he played with.  And in my opinion the development you get in spring /summer is greater than during the season when coaches are concentrating on winning games. 
Leave,,,,, just leave on good terms, and always keep the communication line tight as you move forward. You never know where that coach or admin person will be in the future.  Be good to people,,,they  will be good to you
i currently ask to play in games and tournaments i know they wont allow my kid to play in,,,, just to let them know "were still interested"!!  knowing the rules is half the battle.


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