# ECNL Refunds



## SoccerFan4Life (Jun 11, 2020)

Curios to see if clubs are refunding 50% or close to this amount given that half of the ECNL season was cancelled.


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## AstroWorld (Jun 11, 2020)

I dont think refunds are happening  Clubs are desperate.......






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## myself (Jun 11, 2020)

I would be absolutely shocked if there were any refunds for the 2019-20 season. How about the clubs' plans for adjusting fees for the delayed/maybe-wont-happen 2020-21 season? It's "reserve your spot for next year" time. I'm curious to hear what the clubs are saying.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 11, 2020)

myself said:


> I would be absolutely shocked if there were any refunds for the 2019-20 season. How about the clubs' plans for adjusting fees for the delayed/maybe-wont-happen 2020-21 season? It's "reserve your spot for next year" time. I'm curious to hear what the clubs are saying.


Let me tell you from my own experience @myself.  Our club gave over 30% back to my family, which I was very grateful for because we were all in and paid in full for a discount a year ago.  I will do it again because I love my dd coach and he's been there every week teaching the players and helping them through all this.  I told them to hold the refund for our deposit for next year's 2020-2021 season and to reserve my dd seat at the table ((ECNL U17 SW Conference-Bad Ass League)).  We also have no idea who will be on the team except her friend from HS.  We only care about who da coach will be and that is 100% the truth.  We shall find out some day but were just grateful we got invited to next years team.  We don;t know what will happen tomorrow and I refuse to let my brain ((heart or mind)) take me past today.  I swear I just learned this trick a few weeks ago after 53 years thinking about what the future holds for me.  You have to realize when one is deaf when born and has to learn to speak and has a speech.............................well, you know the story, all one has to think about is, "oh sh*t, I have to read out loud.....oh oh!!!"  Then a mean kid will laugh and tell me that I'm stupid and dam fool.  It all depends what tomorrow brings and thank God no one knows what tomorrow will be like.  Peace.  I hope this helps you with your curiosity questions


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## Woobie06 (Jun 11, 2020)

No refunds for base tuition.  Money spent to keep coaches employed and other fixed costs/commitments of the club.  You either get the refund and the club might fall apart or you eat it and keep the club and coaches together.  Most of these clubs have pretty shallow pockets and not too much in reserves.  Depending on where you play, league, etc. keeping the club and coaches intact may carry a different level of importance to you.  Some may care a lot, some not at all, and everywhere in between. Personally, I felt our DD’s club did the best they could during these crazy times and we like our kids coach.  No blueprint and everyone just trying to do their best.  I feel they would have refunded if they could have.  They did refund prepaid travel for the out-of-town showcase that was canceled.


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## futboldad1 (Jun 11, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> No refunds for base tuition.  Money spent to keep coaches employed and other fixed costs/commitments of the club.  You either get the refund and the club might fall apart or you eat it and keep the club and coaches together.  Most of these clubs have pretty shallow pockets and not too much in reserves.  Depending on where you play, league, etc. keeping the club and coaches intact may carry a different level of importance to you.  Some may care a lot, some not at all, and everywhere in between. Personally, I felt our DD’s club did the best they could during these crazy times and we like our kids coach.  No blueprint and everyone just trying to do their best.  I feel they would have refunded if they could have.  They did refund prepaid travel for the out-of-town showcase that was canceled.


Same, obviously......  clubs like many small businesses weren't prepared for Covid...... only the likes of Amazon have enjoyed this period..... my DD just wants her soccer team back together sometime soon.....


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## Danielle (Jul 24, 2020)

myself said:


> I would be absolutely shocked if there were any refunds for the 2019-20 season. How about the clubs' plans for adjusting fees for the delayed/maybe-wont-happen 2020-21 season? It's "reserve your spot for next year" time. I'm curious to hear what the clubs are saying.


Are clubs charging registration fees ? Does anyone know and what clubs aren’t charging fees for registration yet ?


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## El Padre Antonio (Aug 22, 2020)

AstroWorld said:


> I dont think refunds are happening  Clubs are desperate.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Especially with LA Surf, They keep charging and keep promising games. They keep saying there will be a season but no schedule has been announced. Coaches, Staff all of them have no shame and tell everyone what they want to hear. They should just be straight up and say there wont be a season. They are full of desperation right now and are squeezing out all they can from Parents. Shameful and sad.


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## Ellejustus (Aug 22, 2020)

El Padre Antonio said:


> Especially with LA Surf, They keep charging and keep promising games. They keep saying there will be a season but no schedule has been announced. Coaches, Staff all of them have no shame and tell everyone what they want to hear. They should just be straight up and say there wont be a season. They are full of desperation right now and are squeezing out all they can from Parents. Shameful and sad.


That sucks.  I can;t speak for that club but I would imagine all socal clubs are in a tough spot.  I think shortly we will all know are fate.  I cant afford to pluck money down on hope and maybe.  Hang in there man, this soon shall pass


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## Soccer43 (Aug 22, 2020)

El Padre Antonio said:


> Especially with LA Surf, They keep charging and keep promising games. They keep saying there will be a season but no schedule has been announced. Coaches, Staff all of them have no shame and tell everyone what they want to hear. They should just be straight up and say there wont be a season. They are full of desperation right now and are squeezing out all they can from Parents. Shameful and sad.


sounds about right - not surprising.  I doubt clubs had a rainy day account for something like this.


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## Ellejustus (Aug 22, 2020)

Soccer43 said:


> sounds about right - not surprising.  I doubt clubs had a rainy day account for something like this.


My old business partner taught me to have a rainy day fun and that is wise for sure.  No one taught us, "sh*t out of luck fund."


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## Emma (Aug 22, 2020)

El Padre Antonio said:


> Especially with LA Surf, They keep charging and keep promising games. They keep saying there will be a season but no schedule has been announced. Coaches, Staff all of them have no shame and tell everyone what they want to hear. They should just be straight up and say there wont be a season. They are full of desperation right now and are squeezing out all they can from Parents. Shameful and sad.


Although there are some coaches/administrators/parents that will do as you say above, the majority is as hopeful and able to predict the future as the rest of us.  No one has experienced this and everyone is in this together.  The club administrators and coaches want teams to be out playing as much as we want our kids to be out there and just like us, they don't have a car to blast into the the future and come back with this information.  Although, it would be nice to have one of those cars but I would probably use it for lotto numbers and forget about league start days.


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## El Padre Antonio (Aug 22, 2020)

Emma said:


> Although there are some coaches/administrators/parents that will do as you say above, the majority is as hopeful and able to predict the future as the rest of us.  No one has experienced this and everyone is in this together.  The club administrators and coaches want teams to be out playing as much as we want our kids to be out there and just like us, they don't have a car to blast into the the future and come back with this information.  Although, it would be nice to have one of those cars but I would probably use it for lotto numbers and forget about league start days.


Yupp! Lotto numbers for me too! All the rest will magically disappear once those numbers are in my hands. Oh and that reminds me, I have to buy my Lotto tickets!! Always staying hopeful and looking forward to some games. May not be this year but it will happen soon enough.


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## blam (Aug 24, 2020)

As non profit, clubs should explain how the  fees were used this year and refund any remaining. I am sure no one would complain about coaching fees, light fees, general admin fees. If money was used then parents will gladly pay. Parents I am sure are wondering about fees that should be refunded due to cancelled leagues and touenaments. 

What would be interesting is to see if any of these clubs had a big portion sucked up by "admin fees".


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## Not_that_Serious (Aug 29, 2020)

Some clubs have stopped paying coaches. At least the ones they know they can replace. Unfortunately fine print might allow them not to refund anything. Not good as far as customer service goes, but most clubs are arrogant and feel the kids/parents will always be around. Some clubs just trying to get to the survive until the next pay cycle as they feel they can always get new kids. They will end up giving credit for next year to some, giving money to the real aggressive parents  and try to make up the gap by hyper-aggressive recruiting next year. People feel this will change how clubs operate, but only going to bring out more of the worst traits as club fight to sign kids


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## SoccerFan4Life (Aug 29, 2020)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Some clubs have stopped paying coaches. At least the ones they know they can replace. Unfortunately fine print might allow them not to refund anything. Not good as far as customer service goes, but most clubs are arrogant and feel the kids/parents will always be around. Some clubs just trying to get to the survive until the next pay cycle as they feel they can always get new kids. They will end up giving credit for next year to some, giving money to the real aggressive parents  and try to make up the gap by hyper-aggressive recruiting next year. People feel this will change how clubs operate, but only going to bring out more of the worst traits as club fight to sign kids


 I just don’t see schools giving away as many athletic scholarships In the next 2 years.  I don’t think that the cost of ECNL justifies the end result.   Paying $10k a year including travel is basically paying for college by the time you finish 5 years of ECNL.


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## GT45 (Aug 29, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I just don’t see schools giving away as many athletic scholarships In the next 2 years.  I don’t think that the cost of ECNL justifies the end result.   Paying $10k a year including travel is basically paying for college by the time you finish 5 years of ECNL.


You do realize that there is much more to playing ECNL than a financial scholarship offer, right? How about the kid who gets into the school because they are a recruit? The kid may be non-scholarship (see Ivy League) or they may get into USC on a books only scholarship. But because they were recruited they are automatically admitted (when they may not have been without soccer). Being a good soccer player is the ticket to admissions into a lot of top schools. 

If you are paying 10K for ECNL you may want to think about which club you are playing for. Also, colleges are required to offer a certain number of scholarships by their conference and NCAA. So they cannot just drop scholarships arbitrarily.

Lastly, playing ECNL is about competing at the highest level. Not every player goes on to play in college. But they want to challenge themselves against the best. That is where they get their joy from.


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## Not_that_Serious (Aug 30, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I just don’t see schools giving away as many athletic scholarships In the next 2 years.  I don’t think that the cost of ECNL justifies the end result.   Paying $10k a year including travel is basically paying for college by the time you finish 5 years of ECNL.


Yeah, as mentioned above, do not look to ECNL as some type of scholarship path. It has been discussed here previously. Since some clubs got booted from MLS the ECNL have tried to push it as Academy Lite or even equal in the areas no MLS clubs are active in. The college sell has always been pushed, but they sell it harder now. If a kid is good, they don’t need to be in ECNL, CRL, or whatever league. If the child is really talented, seek Good competition (and more importantly a good coach) but always know they that doesn’t necessary mean the leagues mentioned. They will be seen. At $10k a year for 4-5 years...that can pay for a good education without the need of a scholarship


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## futboldad1 (Aug 30, 2020)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Yeah, as mentioned above, do not look to ECNL as some type of scholarship path. It has been discussed here previously. Since some clubs got booted from MLS the ECNL have tried to push it as Academy Lite or even equal in the areas no MLS clubs are active in. The college sell has always been pushed, but they sell it harder now. If a kid is good, they don’t need to be in ECNL, CRL, or whatever league. If the child is really talented, seek Good competition (and more importantly a good coach) but always know they that doesn’t necessary mean the leagues mentioned. They will be seen. At $10k a year for 4-5 years...that can pay for a good education without the need of a scholarship


I think you may have missed the point of the above post.... on the girls side, to be the best means playing both with and against the best so ECNL is a smart choice if your DD has the talent and you can make the logistics work....


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## GT45 (Aug 30, 2020)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Yeah, as mentioned above, do not look to ECNL as some type of scholarship path. It has been discussed here previously. Since some clubs got booted from MLS the ECNL have tried to push it as Academy Lite or even equal in the areas no MLS clubs are active in. The college sell has always been pushed, but they sell it harder now. If a kid is good, they don’t need to be in ECNL, CRL, or whatever league. If the child is really talented, seek Good competition (and more importantly a good coach) but always know they that doesn’t necessary mean the leagues mentioned. They will be seen. At $10k a year for 4-5 years...that can pay for a good education without the need of a scholarship


It is not $10K a year. Not even close. Stop with the false propaganda.


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## Emma (Aug 30, 2020)

GT45 said:


> It is not $10K a year. Not even close. Stop with the false propaganda.


It's pretty close to that with traveling.  It's 7-8 K if your child travels without family and splits costs between teammates but if not, it's at least 10K.


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## Lifeisnotfare (Aug 30, 2020)

Emma said:


> It's pretty close to that with traveling.  It's 7-8 K if your child travels without family and splits costs between teammates but if not, it's at least 10K.


GDA was bank.  ECNL in the old days when Maps was paying was a lot less.  It got crazy when my dd got to 13 and 14.  I would say between $6,000-$20,000 a year, depending on what parents do for a living, that's if they still live in the OC and have a job. This year, I already figured it out.  I can do it for $5000.  We wont be going unless we can drive.  I have a cool spouse tent with a mattress that blows itself up.  I know some spots for free in Vegas and AZ.  We only eat fruits, nuts, vegetables, salads and lot's of juices and other natural foods.  I'm a different person


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## GT45 (Aug 30, 2020)

Emma said:


> It's pretty close to that with traveling.  It's 7-8 K if your child travels without family and splits costs between teammates but if not, it's at least 10K.


First ECNL costs do not include family. So if you choose to take your family on vacation to watch the games that is your choice, and a vacation is what it is. It is not an ECNL expense. ECNL requires players stay together. So they split the cost. $7K is nowhere near 10K. Like I said ... false propaganda. And, even 7K is higher than I pay.


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## Lifeisnotfare (Aug 31, 2020)

GT45 said:


> First ECNL costs do not include family. So if you choose to take your family on vacation to watch the games that is your choice, and a vacation is what it is. It is not an ECNL expense. ECNL requires players stay together. So they split the cost. $7K is nowhere near 10K. Like I said ... false propaganda. And, even 7K is higher than I pay.


I like this example.  Most of us in 2017 hopped over ECNL to the GDA in Socal and never experienced the true costs of ECNL.  We only experienced the cost of GDA and that's why Hope Solo was saying it can cost up to $15,000.00 a year to play and pay in style.  Style is first class just so you know.  First in line and first to get the best of everything.  The rest can get the rest that's left over.  Fly first class baby, stay at the best hotel, get a killer rental car, golf and eat out at nice places and make sure DD get's what you want for her.  I think we all know what that is.


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## Lifeisnotfare (Aug 31, 2020)

Lifeisnotfare said:


> I like this example.  Most of us in 2017 hopped over ECNL to the GDA in Socal and never experienced the true costs of ECNL.  We only experienced the cost of GDA and that's why Hope Solo was saying it can cost up to $15,000.00 a year to play and pay in style.  Style is first class just so you know.  First in line and first to get the best of everything.  The rest can get the rest that's left over.  Fly first class baby, stay at the best hotel, get a killer rental car, golf and eat out at nice places and make sure DD get's what you want for her.  I think we all know what that is.


Plus, 25% of the games your DD will start.  Don;t have to work for that start, it's all guaranteed baby!!!


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## Emma (Aug 31, 2020)

GT45 said:


> First ECNL costs do not include family. So if you choose to take your family on vacation to watch the games that is your choice, and a vacation is what it is. It is not an ECNL expense. ECNL requires players stay together. So they split the cost. $7K is nowhere near 10K. Like I said ... false propaganda. And, even 7K is higher than I pay.


GT45 - not arguing but would like to learn.  It sounds like you are really able to keep costs down.  I know a lot of families that would like to know how you guys do it considering everyone is trying to cut costs and renovate their homes more.   Can you share?  Club fees for our friends and families range from 3200-4200 and then travel/tourney cost ranges from 3500 to10K - depending on how many are traveling and where to. 

Thanks.


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## Emma (Aug 31, 2020)

GT45 said:


> First ECNL costs do not include family. So if you choose to take your family on vacation to watch the games that is your choice, and a vacation is what it is. It is not an ECNL expense. ECNL requires players stay together. So they split the cost. $7K is nowhere near 10K. Like I said ... false propaganda. And, even 7K is higher than I pay.


The good news is, this year, we are saving a lot in travel and our cost is below 4K.


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## SoccerFan6 (Aug 31, 2020)

Last year our expenses were about $6,500.  $3,400 for club dues.  Two trips to AZ and one to LV at about $700 per trip and we're at $5,500.  Adding about $1000 more for misc expenses - gas for socal games, uniforms, other tournaments.  If someone is spending $10k they aren't doing it right.


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## Lifeisnotfare (Aug 31, 2020)

SoccerFan6 said:


> Last year our expenses were about $6,500.  $3,400 for club dues.  Two trips to AZ and one to LV at about $700 per trip and we're at $5,500.  Adding about $1000 more for misc expenses - gas for socal games, uniforms, other tournaments. * If someone is spending $10k they aren't doing it right.*


Or, they have a few more $$$ and go in style. Regardless, if you can stay in a airbandb or a tent and not hang out with other parents, you save a ton of money.


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## lafalafa (Aug 31, 2020)

Emma said:


> GT45 - not arguing but would like to learn.  It sounds like you are really able to keep costs down.  I know a lot of families that would like to know how you guys do it considering everyone is trying to cut costs and renovate their homes more.   Can you share?  Club fees for our friends and families range from 3200-4200 and then travel/tourney cost ranges from 3500 to10K - depending on how many are traveling and where to.
> 
> Thanks.


GT is a coach or has some financial incentive to paint a picture that's ECNL is somehow not costly, college soccer sholarships are still plentiful in the future, and it's has the best competition.

It's been a good competitive league for the girls and now the most expensive around after you add everything up including the showcase, travel, etc.   Just the airfare, hotels, transportation expensives for a player is several thousands not to mention the club and team fees.  Not even considering family travel.

If you're not traveling this year why would it be worth it to play the same teams you could locally without all the extra expenses.

I like the ECNL platform but let's call it what it really is:  a good competitive platform, that's higher priced and closed  that sells it's itself on being able to draw college coaches who in the past could offer sholarship or preferred admissions to some colleges for a limited number of impact players.

Both of those are now in questioned with the payola celebrity scandals and the reduction of money in college sports due to covid19.

Play for the love of game, pay for good coaching & training if that's ECNL so be it but there are other options and offerings that can meet that want also.


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## SoccerFan6 (Aug 31, 2020)

Lifeisnotfare said:


> Or, they have a few more $$$ and go in style. Regardless, if you can stay in a airbandb or a tent and not hang out with other parents, you save a ton of money.


Ha.  I guess you could easily argue the opposite.  If you're spending $10k you *ARE *doing it right!


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## Lifeisnotfare (Aug 31, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> GT is a coach or has some financial incentive to paint a picture that's ECNL is somehow not costly, college soccer sholarships are still plentiful in the future, and it's has the best competition.
> 
> It's been a good competitive league for the girls and now the most expensive around after you add everything up including the showcase, travel, etc.   Just the airfare, hotels, transportation expensives for a player is several thousands not to mention the club and team fees.  Not even considering family travel.
> 
> ...


I've been saying forever that too many dads have their money and say in this game.  It just slants one's perspective.  I dont have the answers and my dd will be long gone but the dads who saw soccer as a means to an end needs to get out of the game.  Let the coaches coach and let the girls play for fun.  If some of them are truly goat players, they will find true Goatville.  I'm super excited to see the 3 x 3 Heartbreakers and be VIP.  I feel so honored.  We won and the dads got so pissed.  The other four goats played ball and we kicked ass, plus we played up like two years i think or maybe it was just one.  It was amazing and the girls had a blast


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## GT45 (Aug 31, 2020)

Emma said:


> GT45 - not arguing but would like to learn.  It sounds like you are really able to keep costs down.  I know a lot of families that would like to know how you guys do it considering everyone is trying to cut costs and renovate their homes more.   Can you share?  Club fees for our friends and families range from 3200-4200 and then travel/tourney cost ranges from 3500 to10K - depending on how many are traveling and where to.
> 
> Thanks.


Anyone paying $4200 for club fees is overpaying significantly compared to other ECNL clubs in the area. $3500, including uniforms. AZ trips (and LV if you choose to go to that one) are drivable. Room costs are divided by 4 players. Parents and siblings are not required to attend. That is a choice expense by a family (i.e. vacation). PDA is expensive for the older age groups, but if you book your flight well in advance you can save a lot. If you cannot afford that trip talk to your coach. Another player would jump at the exposure opportunity.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Aug 31, 2020)

So, $10k is a controversial amount? LOL.  I said $10k including traveling cost and I am aware that fees are around $3,500 or so. 

My point is that the investment and sacrifice is big if you dont have the means to pay for travel or take time off work for travel.  

 There has to be a better way than the current process.  Maybe it's more local games and you travel only for major tournaments.  Maybe it's starting ECNL at age 14 and not 12.   Keep the rosters to 17 and not 22 to allow more playing time for all kids.  This could also help them pull up players from the ECRL team when needed.  

This whole system needs a do over.  I can guarantee you that the economics dont add up. You will now see that scouts will have smaller budgets for travel so they will need to pick fewer tournaments to attend.


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## GT45 (Aug 31, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> So, $10k is a controversial amount? LOL.  I said $10k including traveling cost and I am aware that fees are around $3,500 or so.
> 
> My point is that the investment and sacrifice is big if you dont have the means to pay for travel or take time off work for travel.
> 
> ...


You needing to take off work is not an ECNL issue. That is you wanting to go watch games. Your attendance is unnecessary and not required. I covered that. Your $10,000 figure is way off. That was the point of my response. If you want only local games play SCDSL. There is a league for everyone. ECNL does not need to change for you. In So Cal we are fortunate compared to literally everywhere else in the country. We have the majority of our games played locally. Suck it up butter cup or go play in a league that fits your criteria.

Your last point about scouts attending less events (whether that is true is certainly debatable) makes ECNL that much more important.


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## soccer4us (Sep 1, 2020)

Go ask what Golf and tennis parents pay for a high level athlete. You will feel much better about how much you pay lol Or even volleyball.


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