# SCDSL Flights?



## Allez les Bleus (Aug 2, 2017)

Any idea when they will release who made Champions or Europa this year? I think we already knew at this time last year..

Thanks


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## Box2Box (Aug 2, 2017)

Gotta love how it will be released after roster freeze. Allowing teams advertising a top tier assignment that didn't get approved  to lock in players.


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## Art (Aug 2, 2017)

Tbh I ref in ScDSL and didnt even know that there was a champions and europa sub division . Like they have a imaginary promotion/relegation system? I thought they were just organized geographically.


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## Eagle33 (Aug 3, 2017)

Art said:


> Tbh I ref in ScDSL and didnt even know that there was a champions and europa sub division . Like they have a imaginary promotion/relegation system? I thought they were just organized geographically.


It use to be like this when SCDSL first started. Now they are trying to do promotion/relegation at Flight 1 level to keep up with never ending demand to win from parents.


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## Frank (Aug 3, 2017)

Eagle33 said:


> It use to be like this when SCDSL first started. Now they are trying to do promotion/relegation at Flight 1 level to keep up with never ending demand to win from parents.


What's wrong with wanting to win?  I have always enjoyed trying to win more than the alternative.


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## Art (Aug 3, 2017)

Frank said:


> What's wrong with wanting to win?  I have always enjoyed trying to win more than the alternative.


there's nothing wrong with it, just that over glorifying it like some parents he mentioned do is kinda disgusting.

On top of that this is just an attempt to sell their club better. I doubt kids need any more motivation to win a game, there competitive without the hype being added.

I see parents getting more upset about a foul than a player..thats pathetic.


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## jpeter (Aug 3, 2017)

Around 3rd week in August when the schedules would come out,  at least the first week(s) of the schedule when we played in that league.

Is the start date still 2nd week of Sept? Someone of our HS friends says ends in early Nov which is good in avoiding conflicts with the school schedules


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## Penalty Kicks Stink (Aug 3, 2017)

im sure it will be coming very soon since person in charge of SCDSL is also same person running Surf Cup so she has probably been pretty busy


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## younothat (Aug 3, 2017)

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> im sure it will be coming very soon since person in charge of SCDSL is also same person running Surf Cup so she has probably been pretty busy


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## SocalPapa (Aug 7, 2017)

This doesn't show the Champions divisions, but here is a link to the current Fall 2017 SCDSL flights for those who may have been searching for it.  https://ssl.demosphere.com/scripts/runisa.dll?S7.65966:gp::73496+Elements/Display+E+47116+Team/


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## UCLA BruWins (Aug 7, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> This doesn't show the Champions divisions, but here is a link to the current Fall 2017 SCDSL flights for those who may have been searching for it.  https://ssl.demosphere.com/scripts/runisa.dll?S7.65966:gp::73496+Elements/Display+E+47116+Team/


Thanks for the info.  I wonder why it's not on the SCDSL website.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 7, 2017)

UCLA BruWins said:


> Thanks for the info.  I wonder why it's not on the SCDSL website.


That is the SCDSL website (or their host anyway).  It seems they just haven't updated the main page to link to it.


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## Penalty Kicks Stink (Aug 7, 2017)

Any ideas where the DA2 teams will be playing? not listed on any of the tiers


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## mahrez (Aug 7, 2017)

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> Any ideas where the DA2 teams will be playing? not listed on any of the tiers


They have their own fantasy league, schedule coming from the tooth fairy at DPL soon or check with the flight 3 brackets at your fav tournaments.


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## NoSoupForYou (Aug 8, 2017)

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> Any ideas where the DA2 teams will be playing? not listed on any of the tiers


http://dpleague.org/
Web domain is registered to LAGSD, would send an email and ask their DOC how it's coming along.


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## ChipShot (Aug 9, 2017)

I noticed on the Fall 2017 SCDSL flights page several teams have an * after their name, any idea what that means?


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## GKDad65 (Aug 9, 2017)

"DPL" ?

Just what the market needs, another "We're almost the best" league.
Do they serve Kool-Aid on the sidelines?


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## RedHawk (Aug 9, 2017)

ChipShot said:


> I noticed on the Fall 2017 SCDSL flights page several teams have an * after their name, any idea what that means?


The "*" means absolutely nothing.


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## The Driver (Aug 9, 2017)

Allez les Bleus said:


> Any idea when they will release who made Champions or Europa this year?


 You don't make Champions or Europe...  You are placed in one or the other. League Cup will sort it all out at the end. Don't Believe The Hype


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## SocalPapa (Aug 9, 2017)

I've taken a close look at the G2002 Flight 1 bracket.  My prediction for Champions division (in alphabetical order):

Arsenal FC 02 ECNL 2 (Champions in 2016)
Beach FC - South Bay G02 Torres (Champions in 2016)
CDA Slammers FC - Cerritos G02 Salazar
CDA Slammers FC - HB G02 Elite (Champions in 2016)
CDA Slammers FC - Whittier Troglia (Champions in 2016)
LA Galaxy South Bay Girls 2002 Elite (Champions in 2016)
Legends FC- West G02 FC
Real So Cal - SCV G2002W Mitrovitch (Champions in 2016)
Slammers FC G02 VT
So Cal Blues 2002 Farrell
Westside Breakers 02 Elite

Also perhaps in the running to make Champions:
Beach FC - Long Beach G02 Soler
CDA Slammers FC-Orange G02 Jimenez
LA Galaxy Orange County G02 Premier Woodcock
Legends FC - East Riverside G02 FC
Pateadores - Irvine G2002
San Diego Surf Academy Girls Select 2002
Strikers FC - OC 2002 ECNL Reserves (semi-finalist in last year's SCDSL playoffs)

It's also interesting to see the changes in the number of G02 Flight 1 teams for the various clubs compared to 2016:

Anaheim Surf +1 (added a Ladera Ranch team that looks like more of a Flight 2 team on paper)
Arsenal -1 (only 1 team now, which is their ECNL reserve team)
Beach FC +1 (Tuttle moved up from Flight 2; Beach now has 4 Flight 1 teams, 3 of which look pretty good)
CDA Slammers +3 (all 6 CDA Slammers teams look strong)
DMCV Sharks 0 (new coach)
Encinitas Express 0
LA Galaxy 0 (2 of the 3 teams look strong)
Legends -1 (top Legends teams are gone, apparently replaced by good, but not as great, teams)
Murrieta Surf 0 (has 1 team that probably needs to add some players to be competitive in Flight 1)
Pateadores +2 (added HB and MV teams, which both look more like Flight 2 teams on paper)
Real So Cal 0
San Diego Surf Academy +1 (they seem to have added a 2003 team, and a very good one at that)
Slammers -1
So Cal Blues -1 (So Cal Blues Holley left - I think to play the California Regional League; we'll see if Farrell can step up)
Soccer Life Academy +1 (team moved up from Flight 2; was in SCNPL this spring)
South Slammers 0
Strikers 0 (the mix of the Strikers teams is different, as are some of the coaches; 3 of their 5 teams look promising, especially their ECNL reserve team)
Temecula Valley 0
West Coast -1 (West Coast has slimmed down a team. I expect their 2 remaining teams will be more competitive this season)


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## mirage (Aug 9, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> I've taken a close look at the G2002 Flight 1 bracket.  My prediction for Champions division (in alphabetical order):
> 
> Arsenal FC 02 ECNL 2 (Champions in 2016)
> Beach FC - South Bay G02 Torres (Champions in 2016)
> ...


Just a question.... Aren't all these teams the C team from most of these clubs?

GDA=A, ECNL=A-, DA2=B, Flight 1=C

It seems like there's lot of uncertainties on the girls side this year with significant player movements.  Fortunately, my kids are boys and we've been dealing with DA for long time so nothing new for us.


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## The Driver (Aug 9, 2017)

mirage said:


> Just a question.... Aren't all these teams the C team from most of these clubs?
> 
> GDA=A, ECNL=A-, DA2=B, Flight 1=C
> 
> It seems like there's lot of uncertainties on the girls side this year with significant player movements.  Fortunately, my kids are boys and we've been dealing with DA for long time so nothing new for us.


Wait what?


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## SocalPapa (Aug 9, 2017)

mirage said:


> Just a question.... Aren't all these teams the C team from most of these clubs?
> 
> GDA=A, ECNL=A-, DA2=B, Flight 1=C
> 
> It seems like there's lot of uncertainties on the girls side this year with significant player movements.  Fortunately, my kids are boys and we've been dealing with DA for long time so nothing new for us.


I suppose players might have switched teams, but I don't see a big impact on G02 in terms of the teams.  Consider the following Development Academy Clubs:

Albion SC U-16/17 Not SCDSL (CSL)
Beach Futbol Club U-16/17 Looks like their top Flight 1 team (one of SCDSL's best) went DPL
Eagles Soccer Club U-16/17 Not SCDSL (CSL)
LA Galaxy San Diego U-16/17  Not SCDSL (CSL)
LA Galaxy U-16/17 Looks like their top SCDSL team (LA Galaxy South Bay Girls 2002 Elite) is returning to Flight 1
LAFC Slammers U-16/17 Hard to tell but looks like all Slammers best Flight 1 teams returned.
Legends FC U-16/17 Looks like 2 top Legends teams left Flight 1
Los Angeles Premier Futbol Club U-16/17 Not SCDSL (CSL)
Pateadores U-16/17 Best Flight 1 teams returned
Real So Cal U-16/17 Seems best Flight 1 teams returned 
SC del Sol U-16/17 Arizona team
San Diego Surf U-16/17 Seems best Flight 1 teams returned 
So Cal Blues Soccer Club U-16/17 Lost better of 2 Flight 1 teams; but may have moved some of the better players to the other Flight 1 team.
West Coast Futbol Club U-16/17 Same Flight 1 teams returns

So, in summary, it looks like SCDSL G02 Flight 1 lost one good Beach team, 2 good Legends teams, and one good So Cal Blues team that are Development Academy clubs.  That's 4 out of the 40 flight 1 teams from 2016.  Not exactly the end of the world.  But, of course, it will ultimately depend on player movement more than team movement.


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## mirage (Aug 10, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> I suppose players might have switched teams...
> 
> So, in summary, it looks like SCDSL G02 Flight 1 lost one good Beach team, 2 good Legends teams, and one good So Cal Blues team that are Development Academy clubs.  That's 4 out of the 40 flight 1 teams from 2016.  Not exactly the end of the world.  But, of course, it will ultimately depend on player movement more than team movement.


With all due respect, team name returning is meaningless because the players within those team move on, as you've also noted.

Keep in mind that teams don't make DA, players do.  So the team continues on but players with abilities go to what's best for them.

While there are teams that stay together and ignore all the noise, most do not...


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## Simisoccerfan (Aug 10, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> I suppose players might have switched teams, but I don't see a big impact on G02 in terms of the teams.  Consider the following Development Academy Clubs:
> 
> Albion SC U-16/17 Not SCDSL (CSL)
> Beach Futbol Club U-16/17 Looks like their top Flight 1 team (one of SCDSL's best) went DPL
> ...


Team names might stay the same but remember that doesn't mean they have the same players.  Also:

Beach, Legends, Pateadores, and Real - These teams will not have their second best teams in SCDSL.  They will be in the DPL.
Albion, Eagles, LA Galaxy San Diego, LA Premier - These teams will not have their second best teams in CSL.  They will be in the DPL.
LA Galaxy is not LA Galaxy South Bay. 
Slammers, So Cal Blues, West Coast, and San Diego Surf - These clubs have both DA and ECNL.  This will pull players from the top SCSDL teams.
Del Mar Sharks - New ECNL club will pull players.
The new DA clubs, changes with ECNL, and the new DPL will effect most of the bigger clubs in So Cal.  On top of that you add all of the player movement.   I think this will have a drastic effect on SCSDL and CSL.


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## jpeter (Aug 10, 2017)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Team names might stay the same but remember that doesn't mean they have the same players.  Also:
> 
> Beach, Legends, Pateadores, and Real - These teams will not have their second best teams in SCDSL.  They will be in the DPL.
> Albion, Eagles, LA Galaxy San Diego, LA Premier - These teams will not have their second best teams in CSL.  They will be in the DPL.
> ...


In the same token you can't assume or generalize that 2nd teams will be in DPL either,  3rd or 4th teams in that league in some cases from what I heard from 2 others. 

When the dust settles around next year everyone will have a better idea on what's really what.


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## Simisoccerfan (Aug 10, 2017)

I would be very surprised if any of the clubs are treating DPL as the third or fourth team.  I have first hand knowledge with three of the clubs and secondary information from two more that DPL is the second team (though they may not yet be playing well since many of the girls are new to each other).  What are the specifics you are hearing from others?


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## The Driver (Aug 10, 2017)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Team names might stay the same but remember that doesn't mean they have the same players.  Also:
> 
> Beach, Legends, Pateadores, and Real - These teams will not have their second best teams in SCDSL.  They will be in the DPL.
> Albion, Eagles, LA Galaxy San Diego, LA Premier - These teams will not have their second best teams in CSL.  They will be in the DPL.
> ...


BS


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## Simisoccerfan (Aug 10, 2017)

The Driver said:


> BS


Explain your thoughts


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## The Driver (Aug 10, 2017)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Explain your thoughts


DPL just another league. Parents aren't buying that 1st 2nd 3rd team junk because it's the same hustle from last year... It's just the new and has bells. Can you list the coaches for DPL? Let's start with the 03s and work our way up. Last year was the first year of ECNL for the 03s can you name those coaches and did they switch to DPL or DA? It's the same girls and the same size ball.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Aug 10, 2017)

We don't need to over complicate this.  If your dd is a stud, has her heart set on playing in college &  is willing to treat soccer like a job, she will be playing DA.  DPL/DAII, ECNL, SCDSL Flight 1 will all be competing for the other girls.  If you throw the DPL/DAII, ECNL & SCDSL flight 1 teams into a giant tournament it would probably be pretty even competition overall.  Lots of gaming circuits because people want to control their piece of the pie.  Why would a DPL/DAII or ECNL team even play against anyone else?  If they lost it owed expose it for what it is (a non-DA flight 1 team); club DOCs aren't going to have that.  

The people I feel bad for are the people that think DPL/DAII is something special.   DPL/DAII girls & families will eventually realize that it isn't a path to DA; it is merely a way for the clubs to sell the families on the idea that their kid is on the cusp of DA.  Almost there, almost there, almost there.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 10, 2017)

Good points simisoccerfan, Ive added a few thoughts:

Beach, Legends, Pateadores, and Real - These teams will not have their second best teams in SCDSL.  They will be in the DPL.
I agree as to Beach and Legends.  On paper I'm not sure about Pateadores and Real.  The Pateadores top team from last year (Pateadores - Irvine G2002 - Ickes) is back with the same coach.  They've done reasonably well in summer tournaments so looks like they still have decent talent.  Same for Real So Cal - SCV (Mitrovitch).

Albion, Eagles, LA Galaxy San Diego, LA Premier - These teams will not have their second best teams in CSL.  They will be in the DPL. 
Since this thread is about SCDSL Flight 1, I didn't take time to analyze the CSL, but, if true, I suspect such changes could disproportionately impact the Premier division there.

LA Galaxy is not LA Galaxy South Bay.
The LA Galaxy South Bay website refers to the Academy program as "our LA Galaxy Academy." So they are representing to parents they are the same.  http://www.lagalaxysouthbay.com/Programs/YearRoundTeams/index_E.html In any event, if there were no such connection then there would be LESS of a chance of the Galaxy's DA team negatively impacting SCDSL Flight 1.

Slammers, So Cal Blues, West Coast, and San Diego Surf - These clubs have both DA and ECNL.  This will pull players from the top SCSDL teams.
I acknowledged player movement was a separate issue.  However, I presume DA would draw from all over, not necessarily the specific club the DA team is housed in. DAII (or DPL as they call it) would seem more likely to pull a whole team out of SCDSL or CSL.  That's the mystery right now.

Del Mar Sharks - New ECNL club will pull players.
This is a good point.  Taking a closer look, it appears the Sharks moved their A team up to ECNL and now has their B team in Flight 1 of the SCDSL.  However, I've seen players dual-carded between ECNL and Flight 1 so the Sharks' new Flight 1 team may have some of the club's better talent at its disposal.


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## uburoi (Aug 10, 2017)

My DD's flight 1 team took apart a DPL team recently. No one knew it was a DPL team. We saw it after. Every club and team and coach is different. I have another kid in DA. It's just different but I'm not saying better. Every situation is unique. Do what works for you. Don't believe the hype or elitist parents. They ruin it for everyone.


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## bababooey (Aug 10, 2017)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> We don't need to over complicate this.  If your dd is a stud, has her heart set on playing in college &  is willing to treat soccer like a job, she will be playing DA.  DPL/DAII, ECNL, SCDSL Flight 1 will all be competing for the other girls.  If you throw the DPL/DAII, ECNL & SCDSL flight 1 teams into a giant tournament it would probably be pretty even competition overall.  Lots of gaming circuits because people want to control their piece of the pie.  Why would a DPL/DAII or ECNL team even play against anyone else?  If they lost it owed expose it for what it is (a non-DA flight 1 team); club DOCs aren't going to have that.
> 
> The people I feel bad for are the people that think DPL/DAII is something special.   DPL/DAII girls & families will eventually realize that it isn't a path to DA; it is merely a way for the clubs to sell the families on the idea that their kid is on the cusp of DA.  Almost there, almost there, almost there.


I agree with most of what you say here. As for the studs that have their hearts set on college soccer and are willing to treat soccer like a job, those players may end up with an ECNL team so they can play HS soccer. Probably not many girls in this boat, but there are multiple girls that will take the ECNL path over the full DA path.

But my dd's coach and girls academy director stated that DPL will be something special?!? Now you are making me question our decision. ***This is a joke. I realize the intent of your comment.

As I have stated before and others have as well, the DPL league was created so that the DA clubs (without ECNL) had a place to put their reserve teams while trying to make it seem like an exclusive club (league). It's not elite or exclusive, but rather another way for these clubs to keep more of our money. I don't fault the clubs for doing this. Soccer is a business and they are capitalists.


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## Bubba (Aug 10, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> Good points simisoccerfan, Ive added a few thoughts:
> 
> Beach, Legends, Pateadores, and Real - These teams will not have their second best teams in SCDSL.  They will be in the DPL.
> I agree as to Beach and Legends.  On paper I'm not sure about Pateadores and Real.  The Pateadores top team from last year (Pateadores - Irvine G2002 - Ickes) is back with the same coach.  They've done reasonably well in summer tournaments so looks like they still have decent talent.  Same for Real So Cal - SCV (Mitrovitch).
> ...


If I am not mistaken LA Galaxy San Diego has moved to SCDSL


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## Simisoccerfan (Aug 10, 2017)

Not per their website nor the list of flight teams at SCSDL.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 10, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> I've taken a close look at the G2002 Flight 1 bracket.  My prediction for Champions division (in alphabetical order):
> 
> Arsenal FC 02 ECNL 2 (Champions in 2016)
> Beach FC - South Bay G02 Torres (Champions in 2016)
> ...


I was 10 for 11.  That 2003 team that is playing up (San Diego Soccer Club G2003 Academy Navy) was given a spot instead of Beach FC - South Bay G02 Torres.  Interesting.

https://scdslsoccer.demosphere-secure.com/club-directory/2017-flights/


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## mirage (Aug 10, 2017)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Not per their website nor the list of flight teams at SCSDL.


It depends.  Partially.

http://scdslsoccer.com/_element_display/#/73496/teams/club/87746579.html?dummy=1502402293969


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## Simisoccerfan (Aug 10, 2017)

mirage said:


> It depends.  Partially.
> 
> http://scdslsoccer.com/_element_display/#/73496/teams/club/87746579.html?dummy=1502402293969


Meaning all boys teams except one 2005 girls team.


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## GKDad65 (Aug 10, 2017)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> We don't need to over complicate this.  If your dd is a stud, has her heart set on playing in college &  is willing to treat soccer like a job, she will be playing DA.  DPL/DAII, ECNL, SCDSL Flight 1 will all be competing for the other girls.  If you throw the DPL/DAII, ECNL & SCDSL flight 1 teams into a giant tournament it would probably be pretty even competition overall.  Lots of gaming circuits because people want to control their piece of the pie.  Why would a DPL/DAII or ECNL team even play against anyone else?  If they lost it owed expose it for what it is (a non-DA flight 1 team); club DOCs aren't going to have that.
> 
> The people I feel bad for are the people that think DPL/DAII is something special.   DPL/DAII girls & families will eventually realize that it isn't a path to DA; it is merely a way for the clubs to sell the families on the idea that their kid is on the cusp of DA.  Almost there, almost there, almost there.


I still don't understand this "DPL/DAII" thing.
DPL is just another league put together by a few coaches/clubs to generate interest and INCOME.

What does it have to do with US Soccer?


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## mirage (Aug 10, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> .......... On paper I'm not sure about Pateadores and Real.  The Pateadores top team from last year (Pateadores - Irvine G2002 - Ickes) is back with the same coach.  They've done reasonably well in summer tournaments so looks like they still have decent talent.  Same for Real So Cal - SCV (Mitrovitch)
> 
> LA Galaxy is not LA Galaxy South Bay.
> The LA Galaxy South Bay website refers to the Academy program as "our LA Galaxy Academy." So they are representing to parents they are the same.  http://www.lagalaxysouthbay.com/Programs/YearRoundTeams/index_E.html In any event, if there were no such connection then there would be LESS of a chance of the Galaxy's DA team negatively impacting SCDSL Flight 1.
> ...


So you're still believing that if the team name and the coach is the same, the player roster is the same?

Think of it this way.  The team name is the label and the coach is the label holder.  What the label gets stuck onto can be completely different.  You cannot make the statement (you maybe right, btw) that they are the same until you see the roster.  The actual players playing the games.

LAG is not LAGSB/OC/SD as the latter are all franchise organization with its own 501(C)3 charter and its own board of directors.  They are licensing LAG name for fee.  But LAG (not LAGSB) and LAGSD do have GDAs and they are new so they will draw from everywhere.

Since this thread is going back and forth on this particular aspect, I checked out the SCDSL website for club team listing.  Its clear that the clubs with DPL has far less teams enrolled in SCDSL this season than the last. 

So, speculating this is probably too uncertain to have any validity.  Once season starts, you'll see who's on the field and playing, and will have the ground truth.  Meanwhile, just go with what you believe in....


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## SocalPapa (Aug 10, 2017)

Bubba said:


> If I am not mistaken LA Galaxy San Diego has moved to SCDSL


You're right, I don't see them in CSL for 2017.  I see their boys teams in SCDSL, but for the G02 girls it looks like their Premier team moved to DPL and their other two teams now play in SDDA.


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## mirage (Aug 10, 2017)

GKDad65 said:


> I still don't understand this "DPL/DAII" thing.
> DPL is just another league put together by a few coaches/clubs to generate interest and INCOME.
> 
> What does it have to do with US Soccer?


I think you have it.

Development Players' (DP) are, it used to be and may have changed, allowed 4 games and once 4 games are played, the club had to either release the player from the squad or make the player Full Time player.  The notion is to have a reserve team made up of that would be DP candidates to play onto the DA team.  So the league would sync with DA season and allow the clubs without ECNL (since if they have both, they can pull from ECNL team) be available anytime.  This probably means no high school or national cup either - just guessing.

In other words, more Kool Aide and the potential to the player to play DA (for parents that didn't quite make DA parents roster).


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## LadiesMan217 (Aug 10, 2017)

GKDad65 said:


> I still don't understand this "DPL/DAII" thing.
> DPL is just another league put together by a few coaches/clubs to generate interest and INCOME.
> 
> What does it have to do with US Soccer?


The Development Player League (DPL) is designed to expand the Girls Development Academy (DA) player pool for participating clubs. Why are you associating it with US Soccer? Many of the clubs do not have ECNL as their second team. DPL is just another league - you are correct. Of course it is there to generate interest and income - that is why 99% of the clubs exist duh.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 10, 2017)

mirage said:


> So you're still believing that if the team name and the coach is the same, the player roster is the same?
> 
> Think of it this way.  The team name is the label and the coach is the label holder.  What the label gets stuck onto can be completely different.  You cannot make the statement (you maybe right, btw) that they are the same until you see the roster.  The actual players playing the games.


Excellent point.  I refer you back to my original post on this topic where I said "But, of course, it will ultimately depend on player movement more than team movement." 



mirage said:


> LAG is not LAGSB/OC/SD as the latter are all franchise organization with its own 501(C)3 charter and its own board of directors.  They are licensing LAG name for fee.  But LAG (not LAGSB) and LAGSD do have GDAs and they are new so they will draw from everywhere.


So confirmed then that LAG has not stolen any Flight 1 teams.


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## Simisoccerfan (Aug 10, 2017)

All of the local leagues except DA have nothing to do with US Soccer and every league is trying to generate interest and INCOME.  Nothing is free and everyone needs to get paid.  DA does allow teams to add Development Players during the season but they need to be already playing for another team on the club.  This could be a player from the DPL/SCDSL/CSL or any other league as long as they play for the same club. 

I guess in theory if your on a non-DA team playing in SCDSL you could leave your team and be added as a full time player on a DA team at the one open add period.  The advantage of playing for the same club is that you could be a DP player and get to play up to 6 times with the DA to see if your a fit for the team prior to being added.  The chances of this happening  are very slim if the DA has a full roster of 23.   More likely if they are carrying closer to 18 and injuries occur.

I can't fault the DA teams that don't also have ECNL from forming their own league (DPL) for control and to try and keep more quality players in their club.  Its the same thing that the clubs did when SCDSL was formed.


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## The Driver (Aug 10, 2017)

Don't Believe The Hype


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## Justafan (Aug 11, 2017)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> If you throw the DPL/DAII, ECNL & SCDSL flight 1 teams into a giant tournament it would probably be pretty even competition overall.


That's a fact.  Would also likely be competitive with several lower tier DA teams.


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## galaxydad (Aug 11, 2017)

I agree with justafan. It would be even. Minus the full funded teams but those would be close games too


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## SitByMyself (Aug 11, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> I was 10 for 11.  That 2003 team that is playing up (San Diego Soccer Club G2003 Academy Navy) was given a spot instead of Beach FC - South Bay G02 Torres.  Interesting.
> 
> https://scdslsoccer.demosphere-secure.com/club-directory/2017-flights/


Do you disagree?


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## Dos Equis (Aug 11, 2017)

Justafan said:


> That's a fact.  Would also likely be competitive with several lower tier DA teams.


Actually, that is an opinion at this point in time, and one which the truth of is likely to vary greatly depending on the age group.  

In the ECNL 02 ranks, you have 4 returning ECNL teams with rosters mostly intact, all in the top half of the ECNL standings in 2016-2017 (Blues, Arsenal, Surf, and Strikers).  I would not be going out on a limb to say that not a single DPL/DA2 or SCDSL Flight 1 team will be able to compete with those 4 teams in that age group.  They are also better than many of the 01/02 DA teams (take a look at the Silverlakes Showcase and Surf Cup results in the DA brackets, and goal differential, for an example of the disparity in competition in the DA).  

For '04 and below, the league alphabet soup may have indeed produced parity at next level below DA, but for existing ECNL age groups, I expect ECNL is still a much more competitive bracket than all but DA, and in older age groups, close to parity with DA.

As for SCDSL Flight 1, with the departure of the DA and the DPL teams (and with some second teams now becoming ECNL), I would suggest it is a step below CSL Premier.


----------



## galaxydad (Aug 11, 2017)

Dos Equis said:


> Actually, that is an opinion at this point in time, and one which the truth of is likely to vary greatly depending on the age group.
> 
> In the ECNL 02 ranks, you have 4 returning ECNL teams with rosters mostly intact, all in the top half of the ECNL standings in 2016-2017 (Blues, Arsenal, Surf, and Strikers).  I would not be going out on a limb to say that not a single DPL/DA2 or SCDSL Flight 1 team will be able to compete with those 4 teams in that age group.  They are also better than many of the 01/02 DA teams (take a look at the Silverlakes Showcase and Surf Cup results in the DA brackets, and goal differential, for an example of the disparity in competition in the DA).
> 
> ...


In the older ages the top 2-4 DAs that are fully funded are likely the top talent but I'd argue that the top talent in each of the leagues could and HAVE held their own against these teams when they are given a rare chance to play .


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## SocalPapa (Aug 11, 2017)

SitByMyself said:


> Do you disagree?


Talent-wise I think the '03 team belongs there.  They just won Surf Cup's Girls U15 Super Black division (which included a number of ECNL teams, among other talented teams).  Beach Torres, by contrast, was winless two weeks ago in the Eagles Summer Classic (including losses to teams that played in CSL Silver and Bronze, respectively, last fall).  I don't want to read too much into one bad summer tournament, as Beach may have been playing short, but at first blush it looks like Beach Torres may be one team from a DA club that has suffered the types of roster losses people have been concerned about in this thread.  

That said, I wonder why SCDSL would accept the '03 team in the '02 division in the first place.  It effectively took a Champions spot from some other good team that might have replaced Torres.  But not a huge issue in the long run as the best teams will still have a chance to play in the Champions division for the playoffs.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 11, 2017)

Dos Equis said:


> As for SCDSL Flight 1, with the departure of the DA and the DPL teams (and with some second teams now becoming ECNL), I would suggest it is a step below CSL Premier.


Why do you think CSL Premier would be impacted less?  There are plenty of DA clubs that have had teams playing in CSL Premier.


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## Multi Sport (Aug 11, 2017)

mirage said:


> I think you have it.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, more Kool Aide and the potential to the player to play DA (for parents that didn't quite make DA parents roster).



 hilarious...


----------



## Dos Equis (Aug 11, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> Why do you think CSL Premier would be impacted less?  There are plenty of DA clubs that have had teams playing in CSL Premier.


CSL Premier lost at most 3 teams per bracket.  But LA Premier, Albion and LAGSD (the DA clubs lost) where not always top 3, and the one bracket they were ('99) aged out.  You have 8-10 returning teams in most Premier brackets.  SCDSL lost between 6-10 teams per bracket in flight one champions.  They lost the top 2 teams from Beach, Legends and Pats (now Da and DPL), Slammers 2nd team (now ECNL), Blues second team (now ECNL, in some cases), WCFC second team (now ECNL), Del Mar Sharks first team (now ECNL), La Galaxy SB (these girls went to LA Galaxy DA),  and the second team for RSC (now DPL).    

CSL was impacted, agreed.  But SCDSL flight 1 is a shadow of what it was.  That is not really a surprise.  You may think CSL was so bad that they are now at parity, but my experience was that CSL was only slightly behind SCDSL flight one (on average) and the lost top teams tip the balance heavily in CSL's favor.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 11, 2017)

Dos Equis said:


> CSL Premier lost at most 3 teams per bracket.  But LA Premier, Albion and LAGSD (the DA clubs lost) where not always top 3, and the one bracket they were ('99) aged out.  You have 8-10 returning teams in most Premier brackets.  SCDSL lost between 6-10 teams per bracket in flight one champions.  They lost the top 2 teams from Beach, Legends and Pats (now Da and DPL), Slammers 2nd team (now ECNL), Blues second team (now ECNL, in some cases), WCFC second team (now ECNL), Del Mar Sharks first team (now ECNL), La Galaxy SB (these girls went to LA Galaxy DA),  and the second team for RSC (now DPL).
> 
> CSL was impacted, agreed.  But SCDSL flight 1 is a shadow of what it was.  That is not really a surprise.  You may think CSL was so bad that they are now at parity, but my experience was that CSL was only slightly behind SCDSL flight one (on average) and the lost top teams tip the balance heavily in CSL's favor.


Good analysis, but I think you are talking the best case scenario for CSL.  Again looking at G02, consider the actual CSL Premier teams that had winning records last year:

1. FRAM HOFFMAN - returning; beat a 2017 SCDSL Flight 2 team (yes, Flight 2), CDA Slammers EGSL Larsen, by only 1-0 two weeks ago
2. BYSC CORONA UNITED G02 - returning; lost to a 2017 Flight 1 (Champions) team, So Cal Blues Farrell, 2-3 last month
3. LAGSD G02 ELITE- DRUMMOND - gone
4. ALBION SC G02 ACADEMY - gone
5. FULLERTON RANGERS G02 WHI - returning; beat a 2017 Flight 1 (Champions) team, LAGSB Elite 2-1, last month

So 2 of 5 CSL Premier winning teams are gone with the other 3 having played Flight 1/2 teams to within 1 goal (either way) in recent games.  So I think it's a little early to say the SCDSL Flight 1 is a shadow of its former self or that the balance has been tipped "heavily" in CSL's favor.

Frankly, I hate to see either league gutted.  If you keep pulling out the top teams and players, there's not much to aspire to.


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## Dos Equis (Aug 11, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> Good analysis, but I think you are talking the best case scenario for CSL.  Again looking at G02, consider the actual CSL Premier teams that had winning records last year:
> 
> 1. FRAM HOFFMAN - returning; beat a 2017 SCDSL Flight 2 team (yes, Flight 2), CDA Slammers EGSL Larsen, by only 1-0 two weeks ago
> 2. BYSC CORONA UNITED G02 - returning; lost to a 2017 Flight 1 (Champions) team, So Cal Blues Farrell, 2-3 last month
> ...


I agree with your last point, and think between CRL, SCDSL, DPL and CSL, we have at least one league too many at that level.  

It is unwise to look at the result from one recent game and draw a conclusion, particularly in the summer months.  But maybe SCDSL will flourish with third teams and smaller clubs' top teams making up its top flight, and be the equal of CSL.  I look forward to seeing how the SCDSL/CSL balance works out, and we will get to when they play each other in leagues/circuits that matter like CRL and National Cup. 

However, if I were to do your analysis above for 2016 SCDSL 02 Champions teams, it would be impossible since 8 of the 11 teams that were in it last year are gone to DA, DPL or ECNL.

The argument ... correction, the claimed "fact" that either are even close to the level of ECNL was my primary source of disagreement and amusement.  The rest was my estimation of how things will work out in terms of competitive order.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 11, 2017)

Dos Equis said:


> between CRL, SCDSL, DPL and CSL, we have at least one league too many at that level.


A perfect way to put it!

One question, as you've probably figured out I have a particular interest in G02, so which 8 teams from the G02 2016 Champions division actually left SCDSL?  I had counted 6 of 11 returning (including Beach FC Torres, which was demoted to Europa).  The 5 I thought had left were Beach Academy, Legends Academy 1, Legends Academy II, So Cal Blues Holley (with perhaps some of that roster now moved to Farrell), and I guess Slammers FC (Gordon).  (You mentioned above that LAGSB moved to DA, but someone else in this thread claimed LAGSB is completely separate from LAGDA and it otherwise looks like Champions includes the same LAGSB - Elite team from last year.  Is the roster different?)


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## Dos Equis (Aug 11, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> A perfect way to put it!
> 
> One question, as you've probably figured out I have a particular interest in G02, so which 8 teams from the G02 2016 Champions division actually left SCDSL?  I had counted 6 of 11 returning (including Beach FC Torres, which was demoted to Europa).  The 5 I thought had left were Beach Academy, Legends Academy 1, Legends Academy II, So Cal Blues Holley (with perhaps some of that roster now moved to Farrell), and I guess Slammers FC (Gordon).  (You mentioned above that LAGSB moved to DA, but someone else in this thread claimed LAGSB is completely separate from LAGDA and it otherwise looks like Champions includes the same LAGSB - Elite team from last year.  Is the roster different?)


If G02 is your interest, I copied below the SCDSL standings from Champions league last year, and  the eight teams that will be leaving or substantially different are as follows (1,1,3,4,5,8,10,11).  If you think LAG is separate than LAGSB, I ask you where exactly do you think a late starting and disorganized DA found their roster --  in the South Bay at an affiliate.  The fact that they got their a$$ kicked in the first DA tournament (Surf Cup) is one indication how little they actually cared about their girls DA program up front. They are still actively recruiting.

G02 in Socal is interesting. Blues Baker, Arsenal, and Surf are staying ECNL.  Those are likely the three best teams at 02.  Beach, Legends and Slammers added their 02 girls to Academy, and at 01/02 will be very good in DA.  But at pure '02, after that you have a very solid Strikers team, and perhaps a FRAM and BYSC team playing very good soccer.  

But what do I know. 

1 Beach FC G02 Academy
1 Legends FC G02 Academy I
3 Legends FC G02 Academy II
4 CDA Slammers FC - HB 02 Elite EGSL
5 So Cal Blues 2002 Holley
6 Slammers FC G2002 Reserve
7 CDA Slammers FC - Whittier EGSL Troglia 02
8 LA Galaxy South Bay Girls 2002 Elite
8 Arsenal FC G02 EGSL 1
10 Real So Cal - SCV G2002W - Mitrovitch
11 Beach FC G02 Torres


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## SocalPapa (Aug 12, 2017)

Dos Equis said:


> If G02 is your interest, I copied below the SCDSL standings from Champions league last year, and  the eight teams that will be leaving or substantially different are as follows (1,1,3,4,5,8,10,11).  If you think LAG is separate than LAGSB, I ask you where exactly do you think a late starting and disorganized DA found their roster --  in the South Bay at an affiliate.  The fact that they got their a$$ kicked in the first DA tournament (Surf Cup) is one indication how little they actually cared about their girls DA program up front. They are still actively recruiting.
> 
> G02 in Socal is interesting. Blues Baker, Arsenal, and Surf are staying ECNL.  Those are likely the three best teams at 02.  Beach, Legends and Slammers added their 02 girls to Academy, and at 01/02 will be very good in DA.  But at pure '02, after that you have a very solid Strikers team, and perhaps a FRAM and BYSC team playing very good soccer.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. I was looking at the announced teams for 2017 and didn't have that info about the roster shifts.  

Blues Baker '02 had an incredible season and I think had a chance to do something historic in ECNL throughout their high school years. Bad timing with DA possibly diminishing ECNL.  

And I agree Strikers is one to watch, perhaps both their ECNL and ECNL Reserve (Flight 1) teams.  Same coach (a former Division I head coach) for both teams and some dual-carded players.  The reserve team was a semi-finalist in the 02 Champions playoff last fall and (looking at the SCDSL website) seems to have a lot of good players returning.  I was moderately surprised they didn't get Beach Torres' spot in Champions.


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## SoccerLife75 (Aug 12, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> A perfect way to put it!
> 
> One question, as you've probably figured out I have a particular interest in G02, so which 8 teams from the G02 2016 Champions division actually left SCDSL?  I had counted 6 of 11 returning (including Beach FC Torres, which was demoted to Europa).  The 5 I thought had left were Beach Academy, Legends Academy 1, Legends Academy II, So Cal Blues Holley (with perhaps some of that roster now moved to Farrell), and I guess Slammers FC (Gordon).  (You mentioned above that LAGSB moved to DA, but someone else in this thread claimed LAGSB is completely separate from LAGDA and it otherwise looks like Champions includes the same LAGSB - Elite team from last year.  Is the roster different?)


LAGSB Elite 03 Roster is completely different, wait until rosters are posted and you will see for yourself.  Same can be said for most new flight 1 teams that have an Academy status.  They kept team names but rosters are 99% new players from mostly lower teams.

I believe this will open the doors for clubs with A teams that didn't lose players to Academy to now flip the standings.  Smaller clubs will now dominate in both Scdsl and csl.  Why do you think SDSC Navy 03 is playing up.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 12, 2017)

SoccerLife75 said:


> Smaller clubs will now dominate in both Scdsl and csl.


Serious question:  Why are the Champions brackets still filled with teams from the bigger clubs then?  Old habits?  Undue influence?



SoccerLife75 said:


> Why do you think SDSC Navy 03 is playing up.


My guess is it is because they are a uniquely-talented Flight 1 team for their age group.  They didn't allow a single goal in Surf Cup, defeating 3 ECNL teams and a top (arguably THE top) team from Cal North along their way to this year's championship in the Super Black division.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 14, 2017)

Claims that SCDSL is decimated and now a step below DPL and CSL Premier are perhaps a bit premature.  The top flight of the West Coast Classic this past weekend featured a mix of ECNL, DPL, Flight 1, Flight 2, CSL Premier and CSL Gold teams, so provided a degree of comparison.

Looking at G02, the four pools were won by 3 SCDSL teams and an ECNL team...

Pool A: won by Flight 1 Europa's Strikers FC - South Bay (BYSC Corona, which was undefeated in CSL Premier last fall, finished last, behind 2 Flight 1 Europa teams and a Flight 2 team)
Pool B: won by ECNL's Strikers FC (CSL Premier' Fullerton Rangers G02 White finished 2nd and looks strong)
Pool C: won by Flight 1 Champions' CDA Slammers FC G02 Troglia (West Coast's ECNL team finished 2nd)
Pool D: won by Flight 2's CDA Slammers FC HG G02 Larsen (Liverpool, which will play in CSL Premier this fall, and IE Surf Premier JS, a CSL gold team, finished 2nd and 3rd respectively)

The Strikers ECNL team and CDA Slammers Troglia made the finals where the Strikers won handily (3-0).

Notable from the G03 bracket:

The overall champion was a Flight 1 Champions division team.
The Beach DPL team finished 2nd in their pool to a Flight 1 Europa team.
The Real So Cal DPL team finished 3rd in their pool (behind a Flight 1 Europa team and a Flight 1 Champions team).
So Cal Blues' ECNL team failed to advance out their pool
West Coast's ECNL team advanced, but lost to a Flight 1 Champions team 4-1 in the semifinals.
Granted this is a summer tournament, the DPL teams are new, and the ECNL teams for those two DA clubs might be going through changes, but the results hint that the SCDSL might have some talent left at both 02 and 03.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 14, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> Pool A: won by Flight 1 Europa's Strikers FC - South Bay (BYSC Corona, which was undefeated in CSL Premier last fall, finished last, behind 2 Flight 1 Europa teams and a Flight 2 team)


Correction, the team that finished 2nd in Pool A is Flight 1 Europa as well.  The other Legends team, which finished last in Pool D, is a Flight 2 team.


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## MA0812 (Aug 14, 2017)

Is there a way to petition the flight you were placed in? As a team we moved clubs and from CSL to SCDSL and were placed in a flight that would not be competitive. The teams we've been playing in tournaments are all in Champions and Europa and done well but were placed in a flight 2 bracket. Just looking for some direction on whether or not a process exists to petition a change.


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## mirage (Aug 14, 2017)

MA0812 said:


> Is there a way to petition the flight you were placed in? As a team we moved clubs and from CSL to SCDSL and were placed in a flight that would not be competitive.....


There really is something to be said about promotion and relegation system. 

Since SCDSL flights are determined by YOUR DOC with the competition committee at the league, it is essentially set by the club.  If you were were in Premier at CSL, you're DOC should have placed you into Flight 1.  If you were Silver Elite, you'll most likely be placed in Flight 2.  Gold teams depends on the record in league play, National Cup, CRL, NPL and so on.

The best place to appeal is with your DOC.  Good luck.


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## Victoria Quinn (Aug 14, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> I've taken a close look at the G2002 Flight 1 bracket.  My prediction for Champions division (in alphabetical order):
> 
> Arsenal FC 02 ECNL 2 (Champions in 2016)
> Beach FC - South Bay G02 Torres (Champions in 2016)
> ...



If you click on the team name, it lists where the team was placed. The Champions bracket is listed as well as the Europa Flight. It's all there on the link on the second page.


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## Desert Hound (Aug 14, 2017)

So help me out here. Not from CA. What is the order of importance of the leagues in CA...or at the least So Cal?

SCDSL is the best? 

How do the 2nd and 3rd divisions rate vs the next league down?


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## Monkey (Aug 14, 2017)

Desert Hound said:


> So help me out here. Not from CA. What is the order of importance of the leagues in CA...or at the least So Cal?
> 
> SCDSL is the best?
> 
> How do the 2nd and 3rd divisions rate vs the next league down?


Now you've opened a can of worms.  If you are just talking about SCDSL, CSL and Presidio you'll get one answer but if you throw in DA, DPL, CRL, SDDA, ECNL, EGSL it is a mess, as well as age specific, especially for this year of dillution on the girls side.  For example I would assume that ECNL will be stronger at the oldest age group because those players are looking for college exposure and want to play high school as opposed to DA on the boys side and at the middle school age for girls.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 15, 2017)

Victoria Quinn said:


> If you click on the team name, it lists where the team was placed. The Champions bracket is listed as well as the Europa Flight. It's all there on the link on the second page.


Thanks.  I wrote that post before the flights had been released.


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## MWN (Aug 15, 2017)

Desert Hound said:


> So help me out here. Not from CA. What is the order of importance of the leagues in CA...or at the least So Cal?
> SCDSL is the best?
> How do the 2nd and 3rd divisions rate vs the next league down?


CSL and SCDSL are competitive leagues.  Each league has its own tiers (CSL = Premier, Gold, Silver Elite, Silver and Bronze and SCDSL = Flight 1 Champions, Flight 1 Europa, Flight 2 and Flight 3).  Presidio is generally regarded has the ugly step sister and namely a San Diego County League, but some of its highest level teams in Presidio's SDDA can compete with the highest level teams from CSL and SCDSL.  Then you throw the DA, ECNL, DPL, NPL, etc. into the mix which pull from Premier and Flight 1 brackets.

Don't get hung up on leagues, its really the clubs.


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## Lambchop (Aug 15, 2017)

Monkey said:


> Now you've opened a can of worms.  If you are just talking about SCDSL, CSL and Presidio you'll get one answer but if you throw in DA, DPL, CRL, SDDA, ECNL, EGSL it is a mess, as well as age specific, especially for this year of dillution on the girls side.  For example I would assume that ECNL will be stronger at the oldest age group because those players are looking for college exposure and want to play high school as opposed to DA on the boys side and at the middle school age for girls.


For the girls, DA, ECNL, CRL.  are where the college coaches will be focusing in that order.


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## mirage (Aug 15, 2017)

Desert Hound said:


> So help me out here. Not from CA. What is the order of importance of the leagues in CA...or at the least So Cal?
> 
> SCDSL is the best?
> 
> How do the 2nd and 3rd divisions rate vs the next league down?


If you look at it from USYSoccer (CalSouth) perspective, its:

NL > CRL > SCDSL/CSL > SDDA > Presidio > independent leagues
You can easily tell/verify by looking at the path to the National Finals via Regionals.  NL pool winners go straight to the Finals, CRL winner goes to Regionals and all other leagues have to compete and win in the SoCal National Cup round to advance to Regionals.

If you look at it from USClub Soccer perspective, its:
Boys: ENPL > ECNL Boys/NPL
Girls: ECNL > EGSL > NPL
Both: National Cup (separate from USYSoccer) via Regionals
USClub Soccer has smaller footprint than USYSoccer in SoCal but its different in other parts of the country (even NoCal, where they run their State Cup that feeds into Regionals)

If you look at it from USSDA perspective, there is no hierarchy.  Its just Development Academy.  So called DPL (Development Players League) is a local thing for girls side only and really created by DA clubs that don't have ECNL.

So if you look at it the national perspective, its clearly USSDA is the top league, as demonstrated by their actions (i.e., 99% of national team players come from DA teams).  While ECNL is very popular, within 2~3 yrs, it will definitely be a step below DA, in terms of importance as the best players will migrate to it, just as it happened on the boys side, I'm guessing.

In terms of absolute competitiveness of the teams, its different from age to age and certainly between the boys and the girls.  League wise, your bigger clubs that have DA and ECNL tends to be in SCDSL for their lower teams, while smaller clubs with very strong teams tend to be in CSL.  There are exceptions but mostly so.

Other than speculating what might happen in the girls DA side, I've left out my personal views on whats better than another.  To pick one over the other is like arguing Ford vs Chevy in (old) NASCAR country and there is no right answer.


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## JackZ (Aug 15, 2017)

Solid post @mirage , FAQ worthy! There's a national champion for each as well, right? USYSoccer, USClub, and DA.


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## mirage (Aug 16, 2017)

JackZ said:


> Solid post @mirage , FAQ worthy! There's a national champion for each as well, right? USYSoccer, USClub, and DA.


Thanks, yes for DA (for olders) and USYSoccer.

Yes for USClub Soccer but not straight forward because they run parallel programs between NPL and National Cup.  Unless they've changed from this year to next, along with the intro of Elite NPL (ENPL), both ladders have its own national champion.  They do not compete in a combined final.


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## transplant (Aug 16, 2017)

mirage said:


> If you look at it from USYSoccer (CalSouth) perspective, its:
> 
> NL > CRL > SCDSL/CSL > SDDA > Presidio > independent leagues
> You can easily tell/verify by looking at the path to the National Finals via Regionals.  NL pool winners go straight to the Finals, CRL winner goes to Regionals and all other leagues have to compete and win in the SoCal National Cup round to advance to Regionals.
> ...


This is a great post.  If you wanted to take it to the next level you can explain to situations where a team can play in multiple leagues - i.e. a girls team can do SCDSL as well as NPL or CRL in the same season.  Permutation may get a little complex - but hey - that's club soccer!


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## SocalPapa (Aug 16, 2017)

transplant said:


> This is a great post.  If you wanted to take it to the next level you can explain to situations where a team can play in multiple leagues - i.e. a girls team can do SCDSL as well as NPL or CRL in the same season.  Permutation may get a little complex - but hey - that's club soccer!


In my view, many of the "leagues" mirage mentions are really better thought of as tournaments  - mainly for the reason your post implies, which is that teams can play in them even thought they play in a different fall league.

If you look at the '02 CRL league teams for this fall, for example, you will see a mix of DPL, CSL Premier and SCDSL Flight 1 (Champions) teams.  See photo below.  Teams are selected by way of a play-in tournament.  "League" play is before the fall DPL/CSL/SCDSL seasons and there is also a showcase event.  The top CRL teams earn automatic placement in the National League (NL).  Some of CRL teams in the photo have already earned their place in the NL for 2017-18

The NL is also independent of the fall league.  For example, that '03 San Diego Soccer Club Academy-Navy team that is playing up in G02 for the fall SCDSL season is in the NL for 2017-18.  The NL "season" consists of playing in two of three showcase events (held in Nov, Jan and March).   And there is a "National Championship" match held in July.

ECNL is a separate fall league in which teams can qualify to advance to an ECNL national championship tournament (historically the closest thing to a true national championship for girls in my view).  The teams that don't do as well in ECNL fall league play in lower-level ECNL post-season tournaments.

EGSL has consisted of ECNL sister teams and includes a spring "league" (i.e., extended spring tournament), a playoff and a showcase tournament.  As with the NL/CRL, EGSL teams play in other fall leagues.

The Southern California NPL is another spring "league" that invites good non-EGSL teams to play.  You have to be a member of  CSL, SCDSL or Presidio to apply, but the team and players must separately register for USClub Soccer (as mirage pointed out, it's not CalSouth).  NPL also has a winter showcase and "national championship."

I'm not sure there is a clear hierarchy between EGSL and NPL.  More like parallel tournaments, in my view, both with some pretty good teams and some average teams.   EGSL just happens to consist of ECNL sister teams.

So, to get back to transplant's question:

The true fall leagues for girls (which are mutually exclusive of each other) are:  ECNL, CSL, SCDSL, SDDA and Presidio (and this fall DA and DPL)
The tournament-ish "leagues" (which are not mutually exclusive with the true fall leagues) are NL, CRL, EGSL and NPL
ECNL teams have their own national championship and, unlike teams from the other true fall leagues, wouldn't play in NL/CRL/EGSL/NPL.


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## GKDad65 (Aug 16, 2017)

Desert Hound said:


> So help me out here. Not from CA. What is the order of importance of the leagues in CA...or at the least So Cal?
> 
> SCDSL is the best?
> 
> How do the 2nd and 3rd divisions rate vs the next league down?


You're asking for it now, be ready to...


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## mirage (Aug 16, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> In my view, many of the "leagues" mirage mentions are really better thought of as tournaments  - mainly for the reason your post implies, which is that teams can play in them even thought they play in a different fall league....


Its worth noting that, in USYSoccer programs, one cannot just sign up for the upper tier leagues.  Teams must qualify by winning lower tier or play-in tournaments (i.e., SoCal National Cup and CRL Play-in) or be invited based on the previous season's performance.

We, often discuss how winning is not important and that development is paramount. Yes its true and its true for the Youngers.  However, as the players transition to olders at U14+, to be on the winning team is very important from exposure perspective.

To be accepted into high profile tournaments, one has to have a great winning track record for the most part.  There are handful of top tier tournaments that just about EVERY college coach attend.

Surf Cup, Disney Showcase, and Dallas Cup

You get there by making NL, or National Finals, or be on one of the DA teams that participates that these three venues.

ECNL showcases perform the same function as DA playoffs/showcases.  Both of these have taken the leg work away from the college coaches.  By attending these, you have the top 1% and its all filtered for you by the local clubs.  Coaches can focus on which players meet the needs, rather than finding where the players are.

So if you are a coach and you're looking at your travel budget for recruiting, just how and where are you going to spend your money.  By the time you goto the DA/ECNL playoffs/showcases, couple major tournaments, there isn't a lot of money left over other than just covering the local events.  Its not rocket science, if you look at it from their perspective.

That's why winning matters for college aspiring players in youth sports and which league gives you the best exposure opportunities....


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## Multi Sport (Aug 18, 2017)

mirage said:


> Its worth noting that, in USYSoccer programs, one cannot just sign up for the upper tier leagues.  Teams must qualify by winning lower tier or play-in tournaments (i.e., SoCal National Cup and CRL Play-in) or be invited based on the previous season's performance.
> 
> We, often discuss how winning is not important and that development is paramount. Yes its true and its true for the Youngers.  However, as the players transition to olders at U14+, to be on the winning team is very important from exposure perspective.
> 
> ...


Well put Mirage...


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## SoccerFan4Life (Aug 18, 2017)

Regarding Flight 1, do the bottom 2 teams from the previous year get dropped to flight 2?


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## mirage (Aug 18, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Regarding Flight 1, do the bottom 2 teams from the previous year get dropped to flight 2?


No relegation in SCDSL, unfortunately.

The closest thing maybe being dropped from Champions, then onto Europa.


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## timbuck (Aug 18, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Regarding Flight 1, do the bottom 2 teams from the previous year get dropped to flight 2?


No. But the parents all freak out and leave for a new team.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 21, 2017)

mirage said:


> Just a question.... Aren't all these teams the C team from most of these clubs?
> 
> GDA=A, ECNL=A-, DA2=B, Flight 1=C





Dos Equis said:


> As for SCDSL Flight 1, with the departure of the DA and the DPL teams (and with some second teams now becoming ECNL), I would suggest it is a step below CSL Premier.


No bragging rights earned in the first weekend of G02 play in the 2017 CRL Premier League season as between DPL, Flight 1 (Champions) and CSL Premier.  The results (W-T-L) were :

DPL vs SCDSL (1-1-1)
DPL vs CSL (1-0-1)
CSL vs SCDSL (0-1-0)


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## mirage (Aug 22, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> No bragging rights earned in the first weekend of G02 play in the 2017 CRL Premier League season as between DPL, Flight 1 (Champions) and CSL Premier.  The results (W-T-L) were :
> 
> DPL vs SCDSL (1-1-1)
> DPL vs CSL (1-0-1)
> CSL vs SCDSL (0-1-0)


We clearly get that you are a parent of G02 Flight 1 SCDSL player.

The statements made by Dos Eq and myself were overall general statements and not a particular small set of teams in a particular age group.  Rather, for the older age groups in general. 

For the group your interested in, you may very well be right but need to keep the examples in context.

Also worth mentioning that there were 2 games played this past weekend - the first two in the season for olders.  Statistically, its insignificant because the sampling is too limited.  After this coming weekend, there will be 4 games played out of 10, then there should be enough sampling to get a trend.  Also, keep in mind that there are better and worse teams in any given league.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 22, 2017)

mirage said:


> We clearly get that you are a parent of G02 Flight 1 SCDSL player.
> 
> The statements made by Dos Eq and myself were overall general statements and not a particular small set of teams in a particular age group.  Rather, for the older age groups in general.


My daughter has played in both CSL and SCDSL.  Other close relatives have both played and coached in CSL.  We've had great experiences in both leagues and, as I've said before, I'd like see both continue to field outstanding teams.

You and Dos Equis have made sweeping general statements about the order of talent for girls now being DPL>CSL Premier>SCDSL Flight 1, so I'm using what I'm seeing on the pitch (and on the scoreboard) to see if your broad claims are playing out in reality.  This is the time to do it.  The teams are formed and are now playing each other in these various pre-season tournaments.  In a couple weeks they will segregate into their respective fall leagues.  I use G02 in my analysis because, yes, that is the age group that I know and the games I watch. 

Further, in the last 2 months I've watched and researched many DPL/CSL/SCDSL matchups beyond those in the CRL (some of which I've posted about above), and at this point I've seen no pattern emerge that would support your and Dos Equis' overarching hypothesis.  Yes, there's one more weekend of inter-league matches we can add to the data set before the fall leagues start, but I doubt that will change my perception.  Nevertheless, if you and your boys have been attending the girls games and have noticed a different trend I'd certainly be interested to know about it. (So would, it seems, many other parents - this thread has been read by 293 registered users and is fast approaching 12,000 views.)


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## SocalPapa (Sep 6, 2017)

Dos Equis said:


> If G02 is your interest, I copied below the SCDSL standings from Champions league last year, and  the eight teams that will be leaving or substantially different are as follows (1,1,3,4,5,8,10,11).  If you think LAG is separate than LAGSB, I ask you where exactly do you think a late starting and disorganized DA found their roster --  in the South Bay at an affiliate.  The fact that they got their a$$ kicked in the first DA tournament (Surf Cup) is one indication how little they actually cared about their girls DA program up front. They are still actively recruiting.
> 
> G02 in Socal is interesting. Blues Baker, Arsenal, and Surf are staying ECNL.  Those are likely the three best teams at 02.  Beach, Legends and Slammers added their 02 girls to Academy, and at 01/02 will be very good in DA.  But at pure '02, after that you have a very solid Strikers team, and perhaps a FRAM and BYSC team playing very good soccer.
> 
> ...


The rosters for 01/02 LAG DA and LA Galaxy South Bay Girls 2002 Elite are public now.  9 of the girls who played on LA Galaxy South Bay Girls 2002 Elite in Champions last fall are still on the roster.  Of those who left, I don't see any on the 01/02 LAG DA roster.  Maybe some are on the the LAG DPL team.

I think your G02 ranking is pretty much spot on.  Except I'm not sure where I'd place BYSC.  I love the way they are coached.  Their midfielder runs are very hard to defend against.  But their talent is not as deep as I think it needs to be to be ranked that high.  They haven't made much of a splash in the bigger tournaments and lost to the Strikers ECNL Reserve team recently.  I'd put my money on Fullerton Rangers to finish ahead of them in CSL Premier this fall.


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## soccermama213 (Sep 6, 2017)

Whats up with all these teams naming themselves ECNL, ECNL 2, etc when they aren't even ACNL clubs or teams? Id that the new name for EGSL teams?


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## SocalPapa (Sep 8, 2017)

soccermama213 said:


> Whats up with all these teams naming themselves ECNL, ECNL 2, etc when they aren't even ACNL clubs or teams? Id that the new name for EGSL teams?


To my knowledge, all teams named ECNL are, in fact, in ECNL.  "ECNL 2" or "ECNL Reserve" teams are typically B teams (aka "sister teams") to the ECNL team.   Some of the players may be dual rostered between the ECNL team and the ECNL Reserve team.  Previously many of those sister teams were called "EGSL" because they played together in the spring EGSL league.  Some teams have dropped EGSL in favor of the ECNL 2 or ECNL Reserve moniker, but I'm not sure if that means they don't intend to participate in EGSL this spring or it is just a matter of branding.

Where it gets really confusing for me is where a team from a club like Real So Cal, which dropped out of ECNL this season, is still using EGSL.   Perhaps EGSL intends to allow teams that are no longer sister teams to an ECNL team to play in the league this spring?


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## Deadpoolscores! (Sep 8, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> To my knowledge, all teams named ECNL are, in fact, in ECNL.  "ECNL 2" or "ECNL Reserve" teams are typically B teams (aka "sister teams") to the ECNL team.   Some of the players may be dual rostered between the ECNL team and the ECNL Reserve team.  Previously many of those sister teams were called "EGSL" because they played together in the spring EGSL league.  Some teams have dropped EGSL in favor of the ECNL 2 or ECNL Reserve moniker, but I'm not sure if that means they don't intend to participate in EGSL this spring or it is just a matter of branding.
> 
> Where it gets really confusing for me is where a team from a club like Real So Cal, which dropped out of ECNL this season, is still using EGSL.   Perhaps EGSL intends to allow teams that are no longer sister teams to an ECNL team to play in the league this spring?


They might as well open ECNL to other clubs that could hang with the present teams or allow more teams in EGSL since more teams would like to play in a spring league.


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## SocalPapa (Sep 25, 2017)

Dos Equis said:


> G02 in Socal is interesting. Blues Baker, Arsenal, and Surf are staying ECNL.  Those are likely the three best teams at 02.  Beach, Legends and Slammers added their 02 girls to Academy, and at 01/02 will be very good in DA.  But at pure '02, after that you have a very solid Strikers team, and perhaps a FRAM and BYSC team playing very good soccer.





SocalPapa said:


> I think your G02 ranking is pretty much spot on.  Except I'm not sure where I'd place BYSC.  I love the way they are coached.  Their midfielder runs are very hard to defend against.  But their talent is not as deep as I think it needs to be to be ranked that high.  They haven't made much of a splash in the bigger tournaments and lost to the Strikers ECNL Reserve team recently.  I'd put my money on Fullerton Rangers to finish ahead of them in CSL Premier this fall.


If only Vegas actually allowed wagering on girls club soccer...


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