# GA, ECRL is there a difference??



## Soccerdog99 (Sep 4, 2021)

If there is already a thread about this I apologize, please show me the thread. I am curious if there is a big difference between GA and ECRL.... I notice that a lot of RL teams are overflowing with players and GA teams aren't or at least the ones I have seen. I don't want to start an argument with RL vs GA, but I am genuinely curious if there is a huge difference in regards to talent. I am still baffled by how a few clubs/teams continue to stay  in the ECNL but that's a whole other thread.
 My gut feeling is one top league and everyone else play Coast, or So Cal or whatever..... but what do I know


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## ToonArmy (Sep 4, 2021)

In So Cal ECRL is the B teams of the A clubs, GA is A teams of B clubs. Some of that is opinion. GA league is national and has its own showcases nationally as well as a playoff and good college attendance. ECRL is regional only as of now I believe. They have expanded to regions other than SW but I don't think you play anything outside of your region yet.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 4, 2021)

ToonArmy said:


> In So Cal ECRL is the B teams of the A clubs, GA is A teams of B clubs. Some of that is opinion. GA league is national and has its own showcases nationally as well as a playoff and good college attendance. ECRL is regional only as of now I believe. They have expanded to regions other than SW but I don't think you play anything outside of your region yet.


This is a good take. Except ECRL now offers a couple National showcases for this season and beyond



Soccerdog99 said:


> If there is already a thread about this I apologize, please show me the thread. I am curious if there is a big difference between GA and ECRL.... I notice that a lot of RL teams are overflowing with players and GA teams aren't or at least the ones I have seen. I don't want to start an argument with RL vs GA, but I am genuinely curious if there is a huge difference in regards to talent. I am still baffled by how a few clubs/teams continue to stay  in the ECNL but that's a whole other thread.
> My gut feeling is one top league and everyone else play Coast, or So Cal or whatever..... but what do I know


I think GAL is a little bit stronger than RL  with regards to competition but there are obviously exceptions......and I do have GA ahead with regard to events too vs RL

I not sure what the bit about how few clubs continue to stay in ECNL means..... nobody is leaving it's up to 17 in the SW and 13 in SoCali where almost all the top talent has aggregated (other than Sharks who are weak finishing last or second last across all age groups)......so there basically IS one top league, GA and RL give additional options that are still superior to Coast/So Cal leagues...........


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## Soccerdog99 (Sep 4, 2021)

futboldad1 said:


> This is a good take. Except ECRL now offers a couple National showcases for this season and beyond
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're right, I forget to look outside the box of age specific teams so although certain age groups are very weak, overall the club may be strong. 

Not too many clubs in the GA SW... it will be interesting to see what happens

I do know while our ECNL sat last season the GA played... so they get points there 

Anyhow whatever letter or non letter league your kid plays in good luck this season to all on the board...


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 4, 2021)

Southwest ECRL = Many very good teams/clubs. A couple of not as good ones.

Southwest GA = A couple of very good teams/clubs. Many not as good ones.

Both are "B" level leagues. (Whatever that means)

The advantage of ECRL is you might get a shot at ECNL play.

The advantage of GA is you can be a superstar without having to play the top level. (Until Nationals)

Both are expensive.


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## lafalafa (Sep 5, 2021)

GA seems to stepping up or offering additional events like showcase, champions leagues, playoffs that ECRL doesn't really match so that could be a advantage for teams doing well or players looks for a bit more exposure.

The travel might be more costly with GA due to above or that's it's more than just regional play sometimes.

For HS players some want a less demanding schedule of games and practices for the time their playing HS or during senior year and have other things going on.  Not sure which league helps more with that but ECRL teams have the ability to potentially move more players around since there part of the clubs ECxx platform and can share USclub players.


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 9, 2021)

Which do you think is the Stronger Southwest League?

GA Southwest
1. SDSC Surf
2. ALBION SC San Diego
3. City SC
4. LA Surf Soccer Club
5. West Coast F.C.
6. Murrieta Soccer Academy

ECNL Southwest
1. Arizona Arsenal
2. Arsenal FC
3. Del Mar Sharks
4. Eagles SC
5. Heat FC
6. LA Breakers FC
7. Phoenix Rising FC
8. Real So Cal
9. Rebels SC
10. San Diego Surf
11. Slammers FC
12. Slammers FC HB
13. So Cal Blues SC
14 Strikers FC


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## futboldad1 (Sep 9, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Which do you think is the Stronger Southwest League?
> 
> GA Southwest
> 1. SDSC Surf
> ...


You forgot Beach, Legends and Royals…

But TBF the OP is asking about GA and ECRL…..that is a fair question…..


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 9, 2021)

Which do you think is the Stronger Southwest League? (updated because I forgot to add a couple of ECNL clubs) 

GA Southwest
1. SDSC Surf
2. ALBION SC San Diego
3. City SC
4. LA Surf Soccer Club
5. West Coast F.C.
6. Murrieta Soccer Academy

ECNL Southwest
1. Arizona Arsenal
2. Arsenal FC
3. Del Mar Sharks
4. Eagles SC
5. Heat FC
6. LA Breakers FC
7. Phoenix Rising FC
8. Real So Cal
9. Rebels SC
10. San Diego Surf
11. Slammers FC
12. Slammers FC HB
13. So Cal Blues SC
14 Strikers FC 
15. Beach 
16. Legends
17. Royals


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## FernandoFromNationalCity (Sep 9, 2021)

With out a doubt ecrl


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 9, 2021)

I could have added SDSC for the ECNL list because they have boys teams


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## Sike (Sep 9, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Which do you think is the Stronger Southwest League? (updated because I forgot to add a couple of ECNL clubs)
> 
> GA Southwest
> 1. SDSC Surf
> ...


I'd guess ecrl is stronger than ga this year, but hard to say for sure until we see which players decided to exit ga this year (I think many of the better players did).  Last year, I would've probably said ga was a better place to be than ecrl, but I suspect ga took a big step back in overall quality this year.


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 9, 2021)

Sike said:


> I'd guess ecrl is stronger than ga this year, but hard to say for sure until we see which players decided to exit ga this year (I think many of the better players did).  Last year, I would've probably said ga was a better place to be than ecrl, but I suspect ga took a big step back in overall quality this year.


Didn't the 2009 Albion GA team just go over the Sharks to play ECNL? Need any additional datapoints?


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## Eagle33 (Sep 9, 2021)

Soccerdog99 said:


> If there is already a thread about this I apologize, please show me the thread. I am curious if there is a big difference between GA and ECRL.... I notice that a lot of RL teams are overflowing with players and GA teams aren't or at least the ones I have seen. I don't want to start an argument with RL vs GA, but I am genuinely curious if there is a huge difference in regards to talent. I am still baffled by how a few clubs/teams continue to stay  in the ECNL but that's a whole other thread.
> My gut feeling is one top league and everyone else play Coast, or So Cal or whatever..... but what do I know


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## VegasParent (Sep 9, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Didn't the 2009 Albion GA team just go over the Sharks to play ECNL? Need any additional datapoints?


Didn't they go because they were following a coach and not because of a league?


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## soccerchaffeur (Sep 9, 2021)

I'm going to say it...at this point, I'd choose Discovery over GA.


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 9, 2021)

VegasParent said:


> Didn't they go because they were following a coach and not because of a league?


Maybe, I'm sure everyone has their own reasons.

But what about Beach, Eagles, and Legends switching from GA to ECNL?


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## Sike (Sep 9, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Didn't the 2009 Albion GA team just go over the Sharks to play ECNL? Need any additional datapoints?


Uh yeah, not sure one 2009 team potentially  moving is really enough data for me to make an informed decision.    

Like I said, I suspect ecrl is better now.  We do know some girls who have moved from ga to ecnl this year, and a few who have moved from ecrl to ga.  Ecrl still only has a couple of national events and one of them is right in the middle of high school season, which is a misstep if you ask me.


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## VegasParent (Sep 9, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Maybe, I'm sure everyone has their own reasons.
> 
> But what about Beach, Eagles, and Legends switching from GA to ECNL?


Eagles were never in GA. Beach and Legends wanted to be in ECNL from the beginning so them leaving was never in question. But this thread was comparing GA to ECRL. I don't think anyone is questioning that ECNL is the better league.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Sep 9, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Which do you think is the Stronger Southwest League? (updated because I forgot to add a couple of ECNL clubs)
> 
> GA Southwest
> 1. SDSC Surf
> ...


ECNL, hands down.  I am sure there are some good GA teams, but
1 - SDSC will lose their best players to Surf, Rebels and Sharks
2 - Albion - same as SDSC 
3 - City - same as SDSC but far enough north they will also lose some players to Blues, Slammers, Strikers, et al
4 - Do not know enough about this club
5 - West Coast - will lose players to all the great park practicing ECNL teams,
6 - Murrieta - will lose players to SD and OC ECNL teams + Legends

If you are comparing GA to ECRL it will be more of a team by team comparison and it will change year by year.  
There are a lot of good kids, playing quality soccer at each level. And for a variety of reasons.  Best of luck and an injury free season to everyone.


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## With Pace (Sep 9, 2021)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> ECNL, hands down.  I am sure there are some good GA teams, but
> 1 - SDSC will lose their best players to Surf, Rebels and Sharks
> 2 - Albion - same as SDSC
> 3 - City - same as SDSC but far enough north they will also lose some players to Blues, Slammers, Strikers, et al
> ...


At this point, I don't think there is any debate on if encl is the strongest girls league in SoCal and nationally.

As far as ecrl vs ga, I agree with a previous post that would've given the edge to ga last year.  However, ecrl is probably a better option now with the reduction of ga clubs in SoCal combined with several of the top ga players leaving for ecnl or even ecrl this year.  Ga teams in SoCal will still get some quality games in at their national events, but the league games should be stronger overall in ecrl.  However, there are probably still some circumstances that would lead me to prefer a ga team over an ecrl team for my dd.  For example, I could see choosing a Doug Swanson coached west coast ga team over many (most?) ecrl teams.


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## Goforgoal (Sep 9, 2021)

With Pace said:


> At this point, I don't think there is any debate on if encl is the strongest girls league in SoCal and nationally.
> 
> For example, I could see choosing a Doug Swanson coached west coast ga team over many (most?) ecrl teams.


You hit on a key point here in my opinion. I think it's important to consider that you're getting 2nd team coaches with ECRL, which aren't always the greatest depending on the club. With GA your often looking at a club's top coaches, with names like Swanson at West Coast, Lalor at Albion and Walker at City for example. Not to mention more of a club's attention and resources. Coach, team, league, club, in that order.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 9, 2021)

Goforgoal said:


> You hit on a key point here in my opinion. I think it's important to consider that you're getting 2nd team coaches with ECRL, which aren't always the greatest depending on the club. With GA your often looking at a club's top coaches, with names like Swanson at West Coast, Lalor at Albion and Walker at City for example. Not to mention more of a club's attention and resources. Coach, team, league, club, in that order.


1. ECNL 
2. Top tier ECRL teams 
3. GA
4. Bottom tier ECRL/discovery teams/ all other semi academy programs.


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 9, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> 1. ECNL
> 2. Top tier ECRL teams
> 3. GA
> 4. Bottom tier ECRL/discovery teams/ all other semi academy programs.


So you're saying that all GA teams can beat bottom tier ECRL teams. Sorry this is not the case. There might be a couple of "good" GA teams in the Southwest division but theres a larger number of poor GA teams. Also all GA teams are going to get picked over by ECNL clubs year over year.


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## With Pace (Sep 9, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> 1. ECNL
> 2. Top tier ECRL teams
> 3. GA
> 4. Bottom tier ECRL/discovery teams/ all other semi academy programs.


Maybe, but it still probably depends on age group and coaches for me.  I should also say that I don't think being on the ecrl team is a real advantage to making that club's ecnl team.  The ecnl coach will take the best player if they have a spot to fill next year, regardless of what club they play for this year.


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## Sike (Sep 9, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> So you're saying that all GA teams can beat bottom tier ECRL teams. Sorry this is not the case. There might be a couple of "good" GA teams in the Southwest division but theres a larger number of poor GA teams. Also all GA teams are going to get picked over by ECNL clubs year over year.


Well, in southwest, there aren't a "large number" of ga teams period.  Don't kid yourself, many of those ecrl teams are bad and have even worse coaches. And similar to ga getting picked over by ecnl, so will ecrl...both leagues are going to have a problem keeping top players in SoCal.


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 9, 2021)

Sike said:


> Well, in southwest, there aren't a "large number" of ga teams period.  Don't kid yourself, many of those ecrl teams are bad and have even worse coaches. And similar to ga getting picked over by ecnl, so will ecrl...both leagues are going to have a problem keeping top players in SoCal.


I agree with everything that you've stated. However getting picked to play on a ECNL team when you're ECRL should be a goal when you're playing ECRL. Also ECNL changed the rules this year and ECRL players can play ECNL games any time of year. GA players would have to register as Discovery if they wanted to do ECNL/RL and theres only 4 per age group.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 9, 2021)

Sike said:


> Well, in southwest, there aren't a "large number" of ga teams period.  Don't kid yourself, many of those ecrl teams are bad and have even worse coaches. And similar to ga getting picked over by ecnl, so will ecrl...both leagues are going to have a problem keeping top players in SoCal.


Plenty of ECRL teams (especially for girls) that are just money making machines for the club.  The talent is not as good as some discovery teams.    It’s very tough for an ECRL player to make it to ECNL.   ECNL teams will recruit from other ECNL or GA teams before they go to ECRL.    I know of many situations where clubs had to get an ECRL team added regardless  of the talent.


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## Sike (Sep 9, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I agree with everything that you've stated. However getting picked to play on a ECNL team when you're ECRL should be a goal when you're playing ECRL. Also ECNL changed the rules this year and ECRL players can play ECNL games any time of year. GA players would have to register as Discovery if they wanted to do ECNL/RL and theres only 4 per age group.


It would be interesting to see some stats at the end of the year on the number of ecrl players who got any meaningful minutes in ecnl this year.  I am sure there will be some, but think it will be pretty rare.


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## Sike (Sep 9, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Plenty of ECRL teams (especially for girls) that are just money making machines for the club.  The talent is not as good as some discovery teams.


That would surprise me on the girls side.


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## N00B (Sep 9, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Didn't the 2009 Albion GA team just go over the Sharks to play ECNL? Need any additional datapoints?


Yes, ecRL vs GA.  The question was never ecNL vs GA.


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## tjinaz (Sep 10, 2021)

N00B said:


> Yes, ecRL vs GA.  The question was never ecNL vs GA.


I think it depends on the club and the area.  If you are ECRL you are second team with all that comes with.  You do not get the best the club has to offer and are treated as very replaceable.   If you are GA you do get the very best coaches and resources the club has to offer and are treated very well.  Development wise I would pick GA over ECRL for those reasons.    In Vegas LVSA appears to be the strongest club and they are GA.  Their teams would be competitive in SW ECNL.


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## Squishy (Sep 10, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> I think it depends on the club and the area.  If you are ECRL you are second team with all that comes with.  You do not get the best the club has to offer and are treated as very replaceable.   If you are GA you do get the very best coaches and resources the club has to offer and are treated very well.  Development wise I would pick GA over ECRL for those reasons.    In Vegas LVSA appears to be the strongest club and they are GA.  Their teams would be competitive in SW ECNL.


So in the 2009 age group Las Vegas Surf has a GA team and a Discovery team?  I believe the Discovery team just won the Blues Cup beating the Blues 09 ECNL team.


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## VegasParent (Sep 10, 2021)

Squishy said:


> So in the 2009 age group Las Vegas Surf has a GA team and a Discovery team?  I believe the Discovery team just won the Blues Cup beating the Blues 09 ECNL team.


LV Surf is not in GA, DPL, ECNL, or ECRL.


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## VegasParent (Sep 10, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> I think it depends on the club and the area.  If you are ECRL you are second team with all that comes with.  You do not get the best the club has to offer and are treated as very replaceable.   If you are GA you do get the very best coaches and resources the club has to offer and are treated very well.  Development wise I would pick GA over ECRL for those reasons.    *In Vegas LVSA appears to be the strongest club and they are GA.*  Their teams would be competitive in SW ECNL.


On the girls side LVSA is strong in only one age group right now, 03/04. The 07's were good but the top 2 players are now playing full time for a SW ECNL team. The rest of the age groups are average or less and definitely not the strongest in Vegas.


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## tjinaz (Sep 10, 2021)

VegasParent said:


> On the girls side LVSA is strong in only one age group right now, 03/04. The 07's were good but the top 2 players are now playing full time for a SW ECNL team. The rest of the age groups are average or less and definitely not the strongest in Vegas.


I just remember last year LVSA absolutely destroying teams in DPL.  They got GA this year and figured they would do the same.  According to YSR they are top in most Girls age groups for this year.  Guess we will see.


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## silverback (Sep 10, 2021)

VegasParent said:


> Didn't they go because they were following a coach and not because of a league?


One of the main reasons the coach left was ECNL/RL > GA


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## Sike (Sep 10, 2021)

silverback said:


> One of the main reasons the coach left was ECNL/RL > GA


Wasn't it more ECNL>GA?


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## N00B (Sep 10, 2021)

Sike said:


> Wasn't it more ECNL>GA?


Wasn’t it more $


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## Goforgoal (Sep 10, 2021)

N00B said:


> Wasn’t it more $


I don't know much about the circumstances, but I'm confident that it was not about the $. DA folding and more say in/control over club/team decisions seems far more likely.


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 10, 2021)

Goforgoal said:


> I don't know much about the circumstances, but I'm confident that it was not about the $. DA folding and more say in/control over club/team decisions seems far more likely.


Before bringing on Mike W Sharks leadership (Shannon M + others) was at a crossroads. Rumor is that ECNL told the club to stop sucking so much or you're out. If this is true Mike held all the cards in the negotiation because if they didn't bring someone like him on leadership was screwed. I'm sure $$$ and control were provided as part of the deal. For Mike as long as he has enough control there's no downside. He's proven that he's able to produce winning teams at multiple clubs. He gets to play at the highest level and can control his own destiny. If you look at the situation objectively DMCV Sharks have always been a diamond in the rough. ECNL, central SD location, surrounded by parents with $$$. What's held them back is poor coaching and leadership. With Mike W as the Girls DOC both will be addressed over time. 

I'm sure a large number of players jumped from Albion to Sharks following their coach. But I'm also fairly certain it was because of the opportunities an ECNL club offers.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 10, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> I just remember last year LVSA absolutely destroying teams in DPL.  They got GA this year and figured they would do the same.  According to YSR they are top in most Girls age groups for this year.  Guess we will see.


The reason they are top ranked on YSR is precisely because they blew out very poor dpl opposition…..ysr rewards blowouts and wins of any nature so after U-13 it becomes increasingly unreliable as strength of schedule for say Heat ECNL is way tougher to get wins and blowouts………

Also the above post about sharks being warned about being so bad so get better or they lose ecnl is true……


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## silverback (Sep 11, 2021)

N00B said:


> Wasn’t it more $


No


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## Desert Hound (Sep 11, 2021)

futboldad1 said:


> Also the above post about sharks being warned about being so bad so get better or they lose ecnl is true


I felt sorry for them last yr when we played them. It was at the end of the yr. No subs, etc.

Played them today again. They barely got past midfield all game. Zero subs. Beat them 6-0. Starters mainly took a break 2nd half.

Saw another of their teams on the next field. Don't know the outcome. I just noticed they had 2 subs.


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## MicPaPa (Sep 11, 2021)

Desert Hound said:


> I felt sorry for them last yr when we played them. It was at the end of the yr. No subs, etc.
> 
> Played them today again. They barely got past midfield all game. Zero subs. Beat them 6-0. Starters mainly took a break 2nd half.
> 
> Saw another of their teams on the next field. Don't know the outcome. I just noticed they had 2 subs.


If you don't mind me asking, what age group?


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 11, 2021)

MicPaPa said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what age group?


It doesnt matter Mike cant make meaningful changes to teams until next season.


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## MicPaPa (Sep 11, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> It doesnt matter Mike cant make meaningful changes to teams until next season.


 Ok?, but not what or who I was asking.


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## Desert Hound (Sep 11, 2021)

MicPaPa said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what age group?


Well here are the age groups posted so far from today.

Their 18/19 lost 6-0
Their u17 lost 2-0
Their u16 lost 4-0
Their u14 lost 3-0


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## futboldad1 (Sep 12, 2021)

Every club can have a bad weekend with the level of ecnl being so tough…. or a certain team or two at a club can have a bad weekend…..but when it’s every team at the club every weekend every season its not good…..and how are the Sharks rosters short handed when all other club ecnl teams is carrying 18-22?!?!

Death, taxes and DMCV losing……


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## jimlewis (Sep 12, 2021)

The Sharks will never be a competitive ECNL or ECRL club.  Their name is synonymous with losing now, and will be forever.  Hire whomever you want, the culture will remain the same.  A club with no fields will never compete.  They will be kicked from ECNL by 2024.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 12, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Maybe, I'm sure everyone has their own reasons.
> 
> But what about Beach, Eagles, and Legends switching from GA to ECNL?


Beach put their GA team in ECRL not ECNL.


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## dad4 (Sep 12, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Beach put their GA team in ECRL not ECNL.


I thought Beach and Legends put the top teams in ECRL, beat the snot out of everyone, and moved up to ECNL.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 12, 2021)

dad4 said:


> I thought Beach and Legends put the top teams in ECRL, beat the snot out of everyone, and moved up to ECNL.


Yes that’s what he’s saying


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 12, 2021)

dad4 said:


> I thought Beach and Legends put the top teams in ECRL, beat the snot out of everyone, and moved up to ECNL.


In 2020/21 season, that’s essentially what they where “asked” to do. In the current season once those Clubs were accepting into ECNL, they moved those teams that were in ECRL up to ECNL and the GA team over to ECRL.


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## Chelseafc (Sep 14, 2021)

VegasParent said:


> Didn't they go because they were following a coach and not because of a league?


Or did the coach leave because of the league?


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## Footy30 (Sep 21, 2021)

I'm still confused about West Coast Girls side going all in GA but the boys having ECNL...


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## futboldad1 (Sep 21, 2021)

Footy30 said:


> I'm still confused about West Coast Girls side going all in GA but the boys having ECNL...


Boys and girls ECNL are treated totally independently.....WCFC are too weak on the girls side to be admitted to the ECNL......like Albion they had some promise when they had DA but that promise is long gone.......


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 21, 2021)

Footy30 said:


> I'm still confused about West Coast Girls side going all in GA but the boys having ECNL...


Well, they put their best team in GA last season and did not get the results.  I believe they have now put their best team in ECRL, they win it then they have a case for ECNL.


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## Footy30 (Sep 21, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Well, they put their best team in GA last season and did not get the results.  I believe they have now put their best team in ECRL, they win it then they have a case for ECNL.


I think they went all in GA (girls) correct me if I'm wrong...  I don't think they have a girls team in the ECRL which is odd because I thought they were stronger than the Pats but I don't know besides a few age groups if that is true.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 21, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Well, they put their best team in GA last season and did not get the results.  I believe they have now put their best team in ECRL, they win it then they have a case for ECNL.


I don't think that every club that dominates ECRL will get ECNL, certainly not after just one season.....they'd need to do it at least consecutive seasons and I just don't think West Coast have the horses to do that.......Beach and Legends were clearly a special case / politics......both belonged in the ECNL and it was an open secret they'd get it......

But yes Footy30 is right that they are not in the ECRL anymore.....just Pats still trying which I really don't see happening either but it might as there's room fro one more to make 18 I guess......


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## ToonArmy (Sep 21, 2021)

Correct they went all in GA this year. Last year showed they care more about GA when they also had ECRL. Pats is out of GA this year all in ECRL


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## Sike (Sep 21, 2021)

I actually think pats will get ecnl next year or the year after based upon the change they made in leadership.  Wcfc was a stronger girls club than pats, but lost many of their best players from last year when they decided to go all in with ga.  They even lost one of their better coaches to pats when they went ga.


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## Bruce (Sep 28, 2021)

This is my first post and most likely my last.

I've learned a lot about perspective on this site. Many a good people have shared their knowledge and am very grateful for that. Like most, some things are best left unsaid; and what is discussed privately between families, friends, and coaches will not be shared for various reasons.

I will not write about speculation or rumor but I will write as if I am speaking to you in person.

This thread has misinformation. I don't necessarily know where certain parents get their information but I am not here to judge them. 

Whether or not you choose to put your kid in ECNL/ECRL, GA, or another league it should be a family decision. What I can share with you is that playing your kid with other kids who share the same mindset, who truly love the sport, and likes to compete will benefit anywhere they play. It's funny because we hear and read this all the time. Some parents initially just don't get it because it's not just about wins or getting that athletic scholarship...it's also about character development.

I can't tell you which league is better ECRL or GA. ECNL, as of now has many of the good players, but not all.
Go with a good coach that your kid responds to because if that is what makes your kid happy, they will improve. Don't force your kid to leave a coach & their friends just because you think they are missing out on being in that top club or national/regional league.
If your kid thrives in a competitive environment then put them in ECNL for now because "iron does sharpen iron". There really isn't a substitute for that "game speed" play.

Usually what happens in games, from what i have seen, is that kids will revert back to their old habits albeit good or bad when under pressure. Both my kids have played club soccer at the highest level. Regardless of what league your kid plays, i do hope he/she continues to play and enjoy the sport throughout their life. 

By the way, DS at WCFC isn't the only good coach they have there; another excellent one is JS.

Thank you for reading, and wish everyone the very best.


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 28, 2021)

One thing I haven't seen discussed is amout of travel + distance you'll need to go to play against a high level of competition in GA.

With GA in the Southwest Division the best teams will likely be City and maybe Murrietta? West Coast? Albion players are following Mike W to Sharks and SDSC players generally move to Surf whenever they're able. What this means is you're going to need to travel $$$$ to either Colorado, Texas, or the East Coast for high level of competition. In general top ECNL teams will not scrimmage against GA teams and although it hasn't been officially stated ECNL sponsored tournaments will not generally allow GA teams to play in them. Of course there will always be exceptions. For GA sponsored tournaments top ECNL teams simply wont attend.

If couple more of the big GA clubs (Tophat, etc) move to ECNL (which is very likely to happen) it will be even more difficult to find a high level of competition in GA.


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## Chelsea dad g09 (Sep 28, 2021)

What's an ecnl or a ga sponsored tournament?


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 28, 2021)

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> What's an ecnl or a ga sponsored tournament?


I should have stated a Club sponsored tournament. Like Surf Cup, Albion Cup, etc.


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## Chelsea dad g09 (Sep 28, 2021)

Can only comment on a few age groups but blues, strikers were at albion. Eagles, lafc socal were at west coast. Everyone was at surf and they placed most ecrl in lower brackets than most ga teams since that's what the thread is about. Again, van only comment on a few age groups.


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 28, 2021)

I've been to GA club tournaments and ECNL club tournaments. At GA club tournaments theres more GA clubs attending. At ECNL tournaments theres more ECNL clubs attending. This has been my view from the highest level + it makes sense. Clubs tend to associate more with the clubs that they're more closely aligned to. Also I'm sure theres all kinds of discounts + other items/agreements (you attend my tournament and I'll attend yours) that occur between clubs that know each other well.


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## LouSag (Sep 28, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Maybe, I'm sure everyone has their own reasons.
> 
> But what about Beach, Eagles, and Legends switching from GA to ECNL?


Your point about teams moving from GA to ECNL is well taken; however, Beach and Legends moved from ECRL to ECNL after serving their “year of detention” in ECRL.  Soccer politics at its finest.


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## Sike (Sep 28, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> One thing I haven't seen discussed is amout of travel + distance you'll need to go to play against a high level of competition in GA.
> 
> With GA in the Southwest Division the best teams will likely be City and maybe Murrietta? West Coast? Albion players are following Mike W to Sharks and SDSC players generally move to Surf whenever they're able. What this means is you're going to need to travel $$$$ to either Colorado, Texas, or the East Coast for high level of competition. In general top ECNL teams will not scrimmage against GA teams and although it hasn't been officially stated ECNL sponsored tournaments will not generally allow GA teams to play in them. Of course there will always be exceptions. For GA sponsored tournaments top ECNL teams simply wont attend.
> 
> If couple more of the big GA clubs (Tophat, etc) move to ECNL (which is very likely to happen) it will be even more difficult to find a high level of competition in GA.


I don't think there is that much difference in travel between ecnl/ecrl and ga.  Sure, you will get better local completion in ecnl/ecrl, but overall the out of town trips are fairly equal for socal clubs.  The bigger difference might be the number of games.  Compare southwest ecnl/ecrl league schedule to a ga league schedule and you will find the ga teams are playing a lot less games.


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 28, 2021)

Sike said:


> I don't think there is that much difference in travel between ecnl/ecrl and ga.  Sure, you will get better local completion in ecnl/ecrl, but overall the out of town trips are fairly equal for socal clubs.  The bigger difference might be the number of games.  Compare southwest ecnl/ecrl league schedule to a ga league schedule and you will find the ga teams are playing a lot less games.


So with GA...
- Lower level of competition than ECNL in the Southwest (more on par with ECRL)
- The same amount of travel as ECNL/RL (this is debatable)
- Less games than Southwest ECNL/RL
- Higher levels of GA competition will require travel to other parts of the country
- There's a good chance GA Clubs will jump to ECNL if given the chance
- Same price as ECNL/RL

The overall benefit of GA from what I can see is if you have a good player + want to control a team it would be fairly easy to do. 

Also if you didn't really care about the competition level but like spending $$$$ it would be easy to control a team. (privates, donations, etc)

By "control a team" I mean parents dictate positions played, minutes, who gets on the team, fields to play on, etc.


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## Emma (Sep 28, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> The overall benefit of GA from what I can see is if you have a good player + want to control a team it would be fairly easy to do.
> 
> Also if you didn't really care about the competition level but like spending $$$$ it would be easy to control a team. (privates, donations, etc)
> 
> By "control a team" I mean parents dictate positions played, minutes, who gets on the team, fields to play on, etc.


Funny.  I think this applies to all leagues including ECNL. The name of the league doesn't change this impact.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 28, 2021)

Emma said:


> Funny.  I think this applies to all leagues including ECNL. The name of the league doesn't change this impact.


Nowhere close to the same extent......with the overwhelming number of top players in ecnl and the sheer number of kids at tryouts it's rare to see a one girl team or couple families running the show like what happens at the lower levels where dopey coaches have to keep them happy......


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## Emma (Sep 28, 2021)

futboldad1 said:


> Nowhere close to the same extent......with the overwhelming number of top players in ecnl and the sheer number of kids at tryouts it's rare to see a one girl team or couple families running the show like what happens at the lower levels where dopey coaches have to keep them happy......


It's the same extent and it's influence is just as bad because you will see that position being exploited by quality teams easily.  What should be a top 1-2 team ends up being middle of the pack because the parents influence their player's position, what minutes their player gets and which player makes the team (the ones they like or their kid likes). Seen it a lot over the years.  Both my kids play high level and we've seen and heard through friends at high level teams.

Money is just as green in ECNL and MLS NEXT.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 29, 2021)

My 09 kid had a chance to play on a few ecrl games and honestly I was not impressed with the talent pool.    I think there’s some very good discovery teams that can beat most ecrl teams.   I am still a believer that ECRL is just a check box for clubs to make money.  They should  Merge ECNL and GA.   The rest of the ecrl and DPL teams should merge with discovery and make it a promo/relegation from discovery down to flight 1.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 29, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> My 09 kid had a chance to play on a few ecrl games and honestly I was not impressed with the talent pool.    I think there’s some very good discovery teams that can beat most ecrl teams.   I am still a believer that ECRL is just a check box for clubs to make money.  They should  Merge ECNL and GA.   The rest of the ecrl and DPL teams should merge with discovery and make it a promo/relegation from discovery down to flight 1.


Lol….as a parent who hates the politics I agree with your sentiment amd some points but ECRL and ecnl are very different……ga doesn’t have any top teams in so cal and would only dilute things here…the rest of the country has a couple….

Ask your coach to play some ecnl teams over winter break….the gap is huge and increases as our kids get older…..my dd was DA but her and 99% of her buddies moved over to ecnl when it collapsed last year so any weaker players got pushed out from ecnl rosters


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## Sike (Sep 30, 2021)

futboldad1 said:


> Lol….as a parent who hates the politics I agree with your sentiment amd some points but ECRL and ecnl are very different……ga doesn’t have any top teams in so cal and would only dilute things here…the rest of the country has a couple….
> 
> Ask your coach to play some ecnl teams over winter break….the gap is huge and increases as our kids get older…..my dd was DA but her and 99% of her buddies moved over to ecnl when it collapsed last year so any weaker players got pushed out from ecnl rosters


In Southwest divisions, I agree that the top of ECNL is significantly better than you will find in any other league and the gap is significant.  However, there are plenty of bad teams/players still in Southwest ECNL.  Top 2-3 teams in Southwest ECRL are better than the bottom 2-3 teams in southwest ECNL and can compete with the middle of the pack in ECNL.  As of this year, I would say that the top of ECRL here is better than the top of GA, and I continue to wonder how long GA will survive.


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## what-happened (Sep 30, 2021)

Sike said:


> As of this year, I would say that the top of ECRL here is better than the top of GA, *and I continue to wonder how long GA will survive.*


How do we go about testing the theory that ECRL is better than GA teams in CA?  I would guess it's a question many parents would like to know when deciding on where to play.  Will ECRL give them the same exposure as the GA?  I know travel is a concern for the GA in the SW.  There are only so many roster slots available in the powerhouse CA ECNL clubs.  I suppose the GA needs to expand more in CA to alleviate travel.  

Do you think that the GA's days are numbered in CA or nationa wide?  They seem pretty healthy nation wide and do provide a good product.  I don't know if anyone is claiming that the GA is "better" than ECNL.  Maybe they are but that would be foolish. The GA has  proven itself so far to be a well run league with deep connections to college coaches and YNT staff.  These are check the block items for many parents. 

I suppose this will be debated until either the GA doesn't survive or becomes established as good alternative to ECNL that provides opportunity for players that don't have access to ECNL.  Seems like a win for DDs everywhere.


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## timbuck (Sep 30, 2021)

There are a few ECNL-RL teams participating in the SoCalLeague State Cup this year.  We'll get to test the theory if ECNL-RL and Discovery are close..
4+ goal wins means it's not close.
A 1 goal differential (even if ECNL-RL team wins) means it's pretty close.


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## GT45 (Sep 30, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> My 09 kid had a chance to play on a few ecrl games and honestly I was not impressed with the talent pool.    I think there’s some very good discovery teams that can beat most ecrl teams.   I am still a believer that ECRL is just a check box for clubs to make money.  They should  Merge ECNL and GA.   The rest of the ecrl and DPL teams should merge with discovery and make it a promo/relegation from discovery down to flight 1.


09's are pretty young still. College is not on their radar yet. Their is a significant difference at the older ages, and as ECRL becomes more established (it is only year 2), it will become even stronger.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Sep 30, 2021)

what-happened said:


> I suppose this will be debated until either the GA doesn't survive or becomes established as good alternative to ECNL that provides opportunity for players that don't have access to ECNL.  Seems like a win for DDs everywhere.


The debate is not going to end.  As my kid gets ready to age out we have seen ECNL only (leaving out the other leagues) to ECNL and DA to ECNL and GA and now ENCL/GA/ECNLR.  Some clubs will get stronger, some will get weaker, some will disappear all together, some will rebrand multiple times (Lighting/Wave - Carlsbad United - LAGSD - City SC, just to name one).  Coaches will move, some kids will follow.  DOCs will be on a rotating basis (rhymes with Murph).  Leagues will come and go.  How about another age change back to school year instead of birth year? The only constant has been change.  

Find a coach that believes in your kid.  Is supportive.  Understands mistakes happen as it is part of the process, commits to playing quality soccer in spite of the results and is a good human being (Alex Walker @ City for example), and enjoy the ride as it ends a lot quicker than you think. IMO.


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## what-happened (Sep 30, 2021)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> The debate is not going to end.  As my kid gets ready to age out we have seen ECNL only (leaving out the other leagues) to ECNL and DA to ECNL and GA and now ENCL/GA/ECNLR.  Some clubs will get stronger, some will get weaker, some will disappear all together, some will rebrand multiple times (Lighting/Wave - Carlsbad United - LAGSD - City SC, just to name one).  Coaches will move, some kids will follow.  DOCs will be on a rotating basis (rhymes with Murph).  Leagues will come and go.  How about another age change back to school year instead of birth year? The only constant has been change.
> 
> Find a coach that believes in your kid.  Is supportive.  Understands mistakes happen as it is part of the process, commits to playing quality soccer in spite of the results and is a good human being (Alex Walker @ City for example), and enjoy the ride as it ends a lot quicker than you think. IMO.


Leagues are more important to parents.  Everything you mention is 100% true.  In the grand scheme of things there is room for two "top" leagues, the evidence is right in front of us.  Which one is better? Depends on who you ask, what's important to them, and where you live.


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## Carlsbad7 (Sep 30, 2021)

what-happened said:


> Leagues are more important to parents.  Everything you mention is 100% true.  In the grand scheme of things there is room for two "top" leagues, the evidence is right in front of us.  Which one is better? Depends on who you ask, what's important to them, and where you live.


I would argue that many parents don't know what they're getting into regarding the different leagues and why or if one is shinier than another.


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## timbuck (Sep 30, 2021)

I see quite a few players that are dual (or even triple) rostered on ECNL, ECRL and SoCal League teams. And a couple dual rostered on DPL and SoCal League teams


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## futboldad1 (Sep 30, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I see quite a few players that are dual (or even triple) rostered on ECNL, ECRL and SoCal League teams. And a couple dual rostered on DPL and SoCal League teams


what is your opinion on that?

As a parent it's her ride not mine so I'm pretty go with flow when it comes to my dd and soccer but if lost minutes to a kid who wasn't even on the team she'd be none too happy and so neither would I be......


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## timbuck (Sep 30, 2021)

futboldad1 said:


> what is your opinion on that?
> 
> As a parent it's her ride not mine so I'm pretty go with flow when it comes to my dd and soccer but if lost minutes to a kid who wasn't even on the team she'd be none too happy and so neither would I be......


If a kid is on a RL team-  I think it's cool that they get to have opportunities to play on the ECNL (non-rl) team.
If a kid is on an ECNL team but not getting much playing time, I think it's cool that she gets an opportunity to get in games on the RL team.

I think its "not" so cool if a kid is being moved around to help a lower team win games at the expense of a player on that team not getting playing time.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 30, 2021)

timbuck said:


> If a kid is on a RL team-  I think it's cool that they get to have opportunities to play on the ECNL (non-rl) team.
> If a kid is on an ECNL team but not getting much playing time, I think it's cool that she gets an opportunity to get in games on the RL team.
> 
> I think its "not" so cool if a kid is being moved around to help a lower team win games at the expense of a player on that team not getting playing time.


Agree with the above.......but what I've seen is kids from unaffiliated clubs listed as discovery kids at certain totally different big clubs.......crazy and as usual paying parents get screwed.......


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## timbuck (Sep 30, 2021)

futboldad1 said:


> Agree with the above.......but what I've seen is kids from unaffiliated clubs listed as discovery kids at certain totally different big clubs.......crazy and as usual paying parents get screwed.......


I'll also say that this year is still funky due to covid.  Lot of teams have smaller than ideal rosters so they are supplementing however they can.  I think next year, we'll see a bit of a "reckoning" (even more than this year)


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## lafalafa (Sep 30, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I'll also say that this year is still funky due to covid.  Lot of teams have smaller than ideal rosters so they are supplementing however they can.  I think next year, we'll see a bit of a "reckoning" (even more than this year)


Reckoning there's just not enough paying customers that want to travel crazy amounts every weekend to play the same teams so unless things are scaled back or reorganized not sure?

Peak 2019 numbers not sure will see those again for some time.  ~ 25-33% off this year but for 22-23'? What's you guess from peak 18-19'?


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## timbuck (Sep 30, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Reckoning there's just not enough paying customers that want to travel crazy amounts every weekend to play the same teams so unless things are scaled back or reorganized not sure?
> 
> Peak 2019 numbers not sure will see those again for some time.  ~ 25-33% off this year but for 22-23'? What's you guess from peak 18-19'?


I think it all depends on what the u-littles look like this year.  For anything 2007/2006 and older-  the numbers will be way low.  Blood in the water for mega-clubs to absorb lots of players without even having to purchase entire clubs.


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## Footy30 (Sep 30, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I think it all depends on what the u-littles look like this year.  For anything 2007/2006 and older-  the numbers will be way low.  Blood in the water for mega-clubs to absorb lots of players without even having to purchase entire clubs.


You're talking about non letter league 06-07 being low correct? because if you look at ECNL, RL, and even GA rosters they're all at around 18-20 some even more than that which is crazy.... yeah yeah injury and all that but still crazy


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## timbuck (Oct 1, 2021)

Footy30 said:


> You're talking about non letter league 06-07 being low correct? because if you look at ECNL, RL, and even GA rosters they're all at around 18-20 some even more than that which is crazy.... yeah yeah injury and all that but still crazy


I think it's across the board.  I haven't looked at every team in ECNL-  But a few 03/04 and 05 teams have players spread across 2 or 3 rosters.
So for an ECNL, ECNL-RL and a Discovery/F1 Team -  They have about 50 players total.
For clubs that don't have ECNL status - They had 2 team in an age group last year.  Now they only have 1.  It may have a decent sized roster (18+), but in 2019 that same player pool would be about 30 deep and spread over 2 teams.


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## Footy30 (Oct 1, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I think it's across the board.  I haven't looked at every team in ECNL-  But a few 03/04 and 05 teams have players spread across 2 or 3 rosters.
> So for an ECNL, ECNL-RL and a Discovery/F1 Team -  They have about 50 players total.
> For clubs that don't have ECNL status - They had 2 team in an age group last year.  Now they only have 1.  It may have a decent sized roster (18+), but in 2019 that same player pool would be about 30 deep and spread over 2 teams.


Oh okay I see what you're saying, as usual I just skimmed through before I responded* (doh!) my bad... *


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## Larzby (Oct 1, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Reckoning there's just not enough paying customers that want to travel crazy amounts every weekend to play the same teams so unless things are scaled back or reorganized not sure?
> 
> Peak 2019 numbers not sure will see those again for some time.  ~ 25-33% off this year but for 22-23'? What's you guess from peak 18-19'?


Lafalafa: I was wondering what the impact of COVID was on the total


lafalafa said:


> Reckoning there's just not enough paying customers that want to travel crazy amounts every weekend to play the same teams so unless things are scaled back or reorganized not sure?
> 
> Peak 2019 numbers not sure will see those again for some time.  ~ 25-33% off this year but for 22-23'? What's you guess from peak 18-19'?


Lafalafa: can you point me to where you get those numbers?
numbers.  Where do you get that data? I would like to dig deeper into those.


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## Larzby (Oct 1, 2021)

This is all very helpful info for new club parents like me... thanks everyone for your opinions!


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## notintheface (Oct 4, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I think it all depends on what the u-littles look like this year.  For anything 2007/2006 and older-  the numbers will be way low.  Blood in the water for mega-clubs to absorb lots of players without even having to purchase entire clubs.


AYSO numbers are down across the board. The pipeline has shrunk for 2012s 2013s and 2014s who you would expect to graduate from AYSO to local clubs. Expectation is currently that 2022 fall may look brighter once the ulittles have their shots in arms, so then you would expect club pipelines to pick up in 2023 spring.


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## Simisoccerfan (Oct 12, 2021)

I use to get caught up in this endless silly argument over which league, club, and team was stronger or better.  I just scanned this thread for old times sake.  I can tell you that eventually it will not matter.  Everyone should be focused instead on whether your kid is happy.  Do they enjoy soccer, their team and teammates?  As a parent are you having fun watching your kid and being involved?  For the few that can really aspire to playing college ball are they getting better?  Are the getting visibility by coaches?  Nothing else matters.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 19, 2021)

notintheface said:


> AYSO numbers are down across the board. The pipeline has shrunk for 2012s 2013s and 2014s who you would expect to graduate from AYSO to local clubs. Expectation is currently that 2022 fall may look brighter once the ulittles have their shots in arms, so then you would expect club pipelines to pick up in 2023 spring.


Interesting data from Colorado. 15% drop in current participation.








						Youth sports in Colorado reach inflection point amid COVID
					

Youth sports have been upended amid the pandemic but they’re starting to make a comeback, particularly in places like Colorado.




					www.axios.com


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