# Presidio/SDDA League new spectator rule should shut up crazy parents



## Surfref (Aug 29, 2019)

Presidio/SDDA will implement a new sideline behavior rule that should hopefully stop the crazy parents from yelling at the referees and players from the other team. The actual rule (copy and pasted) from the Presidio website is below.  In a nutshell, if a spectator/parent is ejected from the sideline they will not be allowed to attend the next two games and no spectators for that team allowed at the next game.  So that crazy dad or mom that likes to yell at the referee and gets ejected, will cause all of the teams spectators to miss the next game.  Hopefully this will cause the good parents to peer pressure the crap out the crazy parents into shutting up.  Last fall I ejected no coaches, but ejected three parents for yelling at me, yelling at a youth referee, and using profanity toward a player from the other team. I hope this new rule is successful and adopted by all Cal South leagues and tournaments.

*Parent/Sideline Ejection Rule 2019:* Starting this fall 2019 Season Presidio Soccer League has instituted a Parent/Sideline Ejection Rule, the rule is as written; If a parent is ejected from a game, he or she must leave the field area immediately (be out of sight and sound) and will automatically be suspended for a minimum of 2 additional games. 
In addition, the entire sideline will also be suspended for the team’s next game, due to the parent being ejected from the game. The only individuals that are allowed on the sideline other than the team’s players will be the coach and team manager, unless the team manager was the offending party. 
If the manager was the offending party the club will appoint another pre-determined administrator or parent to act as the team manager for the game, prior to next game.


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## timbuck (Aug 29, 2019)

I can see it now.  Everyone is out scrambling to buy “spirit wear” of their rivals.  They can either pretend to be with them during a game.  Or once the get kicked out of their own game-  they’ll show up dressed up for the other team.  

Are we at a point where we need “spectator cards” for parents that will be collected by the ref before the game.


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## greekgirl (Aug 30, 2019)

Surfref said:


> Presidio/SDDA will implement a new sideline behavior rule that should hopefully stop the crazy parents from yelling at the referees and players from the other team. The actual rule (copy and pasted) from the Presidio website is below.  In a nutshell, if a spectator/parent is ejected from the sideline they will not be allowed to attend the next two games and no spectators for that team allowed at the next game.  So that crazy dad or mom that likes to yell at the referee and gets ejected, will cause all of the teams spectators to miss the next game.  Hopefully this will cause the good parents to peer pressure the crap out the crazy parents into shutting up.  Last fall I ejected no coaches, but ejected three parents for yelling at me, yelling at a youth referee, and using profanity toward a player from the other team. I hope this new rule is successful and adopted by all Cal South leagues and tournaments.
> 
> *Parent/Sideline Ejection Rule 2019:* Starting this fall 2019 Season Presidio Soccer League has instituted a Parent/Sideline Ejection Rule, the rule is as written; If a parent is ejected from a game, he or she must leave the field area immediately (be out of sight and sound) and will automatically be suspended for a minimum of 2 additional games.
> In addition, the entire sideline will also be suspended for the team’s next game, due to the parent being ejected from the game. The only individuals that are allowed on the sideline other than the team’s players will be the coach and team manager, unless the team manager was the offending party.
> If the manager was the offending party the club will appoint another pre-determined administrator or parent to act as the team manager for the game, prior to next game.


The presidio folks came to one of our referee meetings earlier this summer and warned us that they would not be tolerating that kind of behavior from parents or coaches this year. I hope it works. I'm tired of dealing with parents/coaches yelling at youth referees especially. I don't want to be refereeing into my 60's we need these youth referees to come in and take our places.


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## watfly (Aug 30, 2019)

Surfref said:


> Presidio/SDDA will implement a new sideline behavior rule that should hopefully stop the crazy parents from yelling at the referees and players from the other team. The actual rule (copy and pasted) from the Presidio website is below.  In a nutshell, if a spectator/parent is ejected from the sideline they will not be allowed to attend the next two games and no spectators for that team allowed at the next game.  So that crazy dad or mom that likes to yell at the referee and gets ejected, will cause all of the teams spectators to miss the next game.  Hopefully this will cause the good parents to peer pressure the crap out the crazy parents into shutting up.  Last fall I ejected no coaches, but ejected three parents for yelling at me, yelling at a youth referee, and using profanity toward a player from the other team. I hope this new rule is successful and adopted by all Cal South leagues and tournaments.
> 
> *Parent/Sideline Ejection Rule 2019:* Starting this fall 2019 Season Presidio Soccer League has instituted a Parent/Sideline Ejection Rule, the rule is as written; If a parent is ejected from a game, he or she must leave the field area immediately (be out of sight and sound) and will automatically be suspended for a minimum of 2 additional games.
> In addition, the entire sideline will also be suspended for the team’s next game, due to the parent being ejected from the game. The only individuals that are allowed on the sideline other than the team’s players will be the coach and team manager, unless the team manager was the offending party.
> If the manager was the offending party the club will appoint another pre-determined administrator or parent to act as the team manager for the game, prior to next game.


I hope it works.  Does Presidio define the grounds for ejection?  I know they define discipline, is it the same definition for ejection?


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## Surfref (Aug 30, 2019)

watfly said:


> I hope it works.  Does Presidio define the grounds for ejection?  I know they define discipline, is it the same definition for ejection?


The only guidance I could find in their rules is below.  It is vague and basically says irresponsible behavior and derogatory words or actions toward players, coaches, sidelines(spectators) or referees will not be tolerated. It leaves a lot of interpretation up to the referee.  One referee may not care that they are being yelled at and the next referee has almost no tolerance.  If there is a youth referee on my crew, I give one warning and the next time someone yells they are getting ejected.  We were instructed to issue spectators, the entire half of the sideline, a yellow card. If the bad behavior continues, we are to have the coach remove the offending spectator and getting their name from the manager after the game. We were told that if the manager or coach does not provide the name there will be additional sanctions against the team and parents.

*SIDELINE BEHAVIOR:* Coaches are responsible for their sideline and all actions thereon. Coaches are expected to coach their teams in a positive and respectful manner. Presidio/SDDA Soccer League encourages referees to discipline any coach for irresponsible behavior if the coach, player, parent or spectator uses derogatory words or actions aimed at their players, the opposing team’s players, coach, sideline or any of the referees. We take sideline behavior seriously, and will take actions against players, coaches, spectators, and entire sidelines.


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## Toch (Aug 31, 2019)

Suspending the whole sideline for a game is great. Holding them accountable for monitoring themselves. Many times there’s the one parent that acts up and the others just encourage the behavior. Many coaches lack the balls to shut their own parents up for fear of them getting their kid and leaving.


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## RedCard (Sep 1, 2019)

I like it but it can be confusing when there are 2 sets of team parents on each half of the field; the team currently playing and the team that plays next. During the Man City Cup this past summer, my dd's team was playing a Surf team (not saying which of the many, but it wasn't a San Diego one) the referee ejected the entire Surf sideline. One dad said "I'm not with that team", and if it wasn't for her dd yelling "Dad, just leave!!", he would of gotten away with it. Like you said @Surfref, different veteran referees have different levels of tolerance. But when there's a youth referee involved, there should be no tolerance at all.


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## Surfref (Sep 1, 2019)

RedCard said:


> I like it but it can be confusing when there are 2 sets of team parents on each half of the field; the team currently playing and the team that plays next. During the Man City Cup this past summer, my dd's team was playing a Surf team (not saying which of the many, but it wasn't a San Diego one) the referee ejected the entire Surf sideline. One dad said "I'm not with that team", and if it wasn't for her dd yelling "Dad, just leave!!", he would of gotten away with it. Like you said @Surfref, different veteran referees have different levels of tolerance. But when there's a youth referee involved, there should be no tolerance at all.


With Presidio/SDDA the parents sit on the same sideline as the team and teams are on different sidelines.  So, it is fairly easy to tell which team a spectator is with.


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## Supermodel56 (Sep 2, 2019)

greekgirl said:


> I don't want to be refereeing into my 60's we need these youth referees to come in and take our places.


If you don’t enjoy it, why are you doing it?!? Isn’t that what we talk about for the players?

First off, there are a lot of great refs out there,  and I agree, referee abuse is not acceptable. But I wonder if that’s part of the problem, parents see how hard their kids train to prepare for this game and yet, so often, refs just show up to the game, totally unprepared, and clearly showing they couldn’t care less.

These kids are busting their butts 10-15 hours a week in team practice + privates to prepare for these games, wouldn’t you agree that the least  refs could do is prepare, know the rules, be engaged, and call a good match? For many, even the youngers, it’s more than just a game to them.

admittedly, I have no idea what goes into reffing these games. But I gotta wonder, how much work are refs putting into preparing for these soccer matches so they make sure 1) they fully know the rules. 2) are aware of what’s going on while they’re at work, and 3) develop the awareness to make the right calls?

Saw some very good refs this weekend, but also some that really didn’t give a crap and clearly didn’t want to be there. One ref clearly didn’t know the rules.

Our entire sideline has always been pretty quiet so in many ways, this policy will help us in terms of annoying parents on the other side... But I do wonder sometimes, given how much work our girls put into this only to have their game called by a ref who’s barely 12-13 yrs old, not even paying attention... - shouldn’t there be some accountability?


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## coachrefparent (Sep 2, 2019)

Surfref said:


> With Presidio/SDDA the parents sit on the same sideline as the team and teams are on different sidelines.  So, it is fairly easy to tell which team a spectator is with.


Except when they don't, as often occurs. 

Coach: "He's not with us." 
Referee: "You have to get his information for us to report to Bob Turner."
Coach: "He's not with us." 
Referee: "Now your whole club is going to be sanctioned."
Coach: "He's not with us." 
Referee: "Sorry coach, you got  a red card."
Coach: "He's not with us. . ." 

Wow, this is going to be fun.


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## timbuck (Sep 2, 2019)

Time for all spectators to have their own “player card”.  And you can have write-ins the day of if needed.


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## Surfref (Sep 3, 2019)

coachrefparent said:


> Except when they don't, as often occurs.
> 
> Coach: "He's not with us."
> Referee: "You have to get his information for us to report to Bob Turner."
> ...


Why would some random person show up on a sideline of a youth game and start yelling at the referee?  They don’t. If someone is on the sideline, they have some type (relative, friend, coworker, etc.) of relationship with one of the players or family. We were instructed not to eject the coach for the actions of the spectators. If an adult on the coach’s sideline gets ejected and the coach and manager don’t know or won’t supply a name, then the referee puts it in the report and Presidio figures out what to do.


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## espola (Sep 3, 2019)

Surfref said:


> Why would some random person show up on a sideline of a youth game and start yelling at the referee?  They don’t. If someone is on the sideline, they have some type (relative, friend, coworker, etc.) of relationship with one of the players or family. We were instructed not to eject the coach for the actions of the spectators. If an adult on the coach’s sideline gets ejected and the coach and manager don’t know or won’t supply a name, then the referee puts it in the report and Presidio figures out what to do.


Maybe someone waiting because their kid's team will be playing in the next game on that field?


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## Banana Hammock (Sep 4, 2019)

Supermodel56 said:


> If you don’t enjoy it, why are you doing it?!? Isn’t that what we talk about for the players?
> 
> First off, there are a lot of great refs out there,  and I agree, referee abuse is not acceptable. But I wonder if that’s part of the problem, parents see how hard their kids train to prepare for this game and yet, so often, refs just show up to the game, totally unprepared, and clearly showing they couldn’t care less.
> 
> ...


I can appreciate that point of view, but having a kid as a player and a ref, that's not the reality of the situation.  There is a shortage of refs and every week it is a scramble to cover all the games, often right up to midnight of the day before the game.  So I don't like saying that you are lucky to get three refs to show up to your game, but you are lucky to get three refs.  If everyone wants to go to two refs like high school, then maybe there wont be a problem.  With the amount of abuse that the refs get every week, I am surprised that they keep showing up.  Its definitely not worth it for money unless your a kids who normally makes no money.  For the adults that do it, I am very appreciative that they show up.  

You can say that you expect professionals for the money that you are paying them, but were just lucky to have any.  Look back at some of the other threads about refs.  I used to have two kids that reffed, now only one will do it,  because of the sidelines.  The one who still does it have been playing 9 years and reffing 3 years.  He is a good ref and makes very few mistakes and has thick skin.  

These new rules are probably a way to retain those younger refs that will have to fill the shoes of all the old refs.  OK, seasoned.


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## greekgirl (Sep 4, 2019)

Supermodel56 said:


> If you don’t enjoy it, why are you doing it?!? Isn’t that what we talk about for the players?
> 
> First off, there are a lot of great refs out there,  and I agree, referee abuse is not acceptable. But I wonder if that’s part of the problem, parents see how hard their kids train to prepare for this game and yet, so often, refs just show up to the game, totally unprepared, and clearly showing they couldn’t care less.
> 
> ...


I do enjoy refereeing, love the kids, and most of the time enjoy the coaches and parents too. I'm also the parent of two dd's who play soccer and I do know how much effort the kids put in. My younger dd is also a ref and helps pay for her tournament fees with the money she earns refereeing. I wouldn't be a referee if it wasn't for my younger dd - she got me into it. 

What I was trying to convey was that when I'm older and no longer as able-bodied I want to be able to hand over the whistle to the younger generation to take it from there.


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## coachrefparent (Sep 4, 2019)

Supermodel56 said:


> If you don’t enjoy it, why are you doing it?!? Isn’t that what we talk about for the players?
> 
> First off, there are a lot of great refs out there,  and I agree, referee abuse is not acceptable. But I wonder if that’s part of the problem, parents see how hard their kids train to prepare for this game and yet, so often, refs just show up to the game, totally unprepared, and clearly showing they couldn’t care less.
> 
> ...


Your sentiment seems reasoned, but read more closely, it basically says, we can abuse refs that are not up to "our" standards, despite most understanding very little about the laws of the game.

Whether the referees are truly (objectively) piss poor or not, allowing a mob of people (many which are blatant fools) to decide whether the referees are worthy of abuse or not is the pinnacle of stupidity. Many of these idiots think it's ok to yell and berate teenage referees, almost all of which are youth soccer players themselves. 

Sorry, but the only solution is to require those on the sidelines (errr, touchlines) to keep their mouths shut.


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## coachrefparent (Sep 4, 2019)

Surfref said:


> Why would some random person show up on a sideline of a youth game and start yelling at the referee?  They don’t. If someone is on the sideline, they have some type (relative, friend, coworker, etc.) of relationship with one of the players or family. We were instructed not to eject the coach for the actions of the spectators. If an adult on the coach’s sideline gets ejected and the coach and manager don’t know or won’t supply a name, then the referee puts it in the report and Presidio figures out what to do.


There are lots of reasons why an idiot is ranting and raving on a side (touch)line but not directly under control of the team. Your assumption that "If someone is on the sideline, they have some type (relative, friend, coworker, etc.) of relationship with one of the players or family," is simply false. Most Likely true not not always.  Also, many of these cretins like to move around and criticize the referees regardless of affiliation.


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Sep 6, 2019)

@coachrefparent As a coach, you are responsible for your sideline, regardless of who is on it. Spectators at a youth game are a privilege, not a right.

Whenever a parent gets too rowdy and I want to kick them out, I go to the coach and tell them to remove a parent. When he asks me which one, I honestly don't know because I pay as much attention to parents as grass. I tell the coach, "I'm not picky, choose a parent... And choose wisely or I'll probably be back here to kick another parent". It takes the decision off me and puts the responsibility on him. All you have to do is wait for a parent to be kicked. For some reason they refuse to play the game without me blowing my whistle. Just don't start the game. You don't have to card the coach. No parent ejection, no play. Eventually the desire to play will outweigh the coaches stubbornness, and at that point even a kid will speak up and say "that's Johnny's cousin!"


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## Surf Zombie (Sep 7, 2019)

coachrefparent said:


> There are lots of reasons why an idiot is ranting and raving on a side (touch)line but not directly under control of the team. Your assumption that "If someone is on the sideline, they have some type (relative, friend, coworker, etc.) of relationship with one of the players or family," is simply false. Most Likely true not not always.  Also, many of these cretins like to move around and criticize the referees regardless of affiliation.


We traveled out of state a couple years ago for a tournament my 2007 DD was playing in.  A few minutes after our game kicked off against the host club's team a woman and her DD from another team in the tournament stopped by our sideline and chatted up a few of our parents, me included.  We were out of state, but her kid's team regularly played the host team we were currently playing.  Took her about 30 seconds to go on a tirade about how she hated the team, coach, parents, club and one player in particular based upon something that had happened in another game a few weeks earlier. She stood on our sideline for a good ten minutes yelling at the kids on the other team, yelling at the referee to "card" a certain kid and shouting down the sideline at the other team's parents.  Most of us slowly distanced ourselves from her, but she just kept going.  Finally her kid convinced her that they had someplace else to be and they left.  

Agree that 95% of the time the crazy parent is affiliated with one of the teams playing, but not always.


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## HappyBeast (Sep 7, 2019)

Recently before a game an AR shouted to the parents on his sideline, "I want to make sure I can count on you to let me know if I make a bad call. Make sure you are loud. I love hearing it. The players love hearing it. Everyone seated next to you loves to hear it. Thanks for having my back. Have a good game parents." It made everyone laugh. It set a great tone for the game.


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## watfly (Sep 7, 2019)

HappyBeast said:


> Recently before a game an AR shouted to the parents on his sideline, "I want to make sure I can count on you to let me know if I make a bad call. Make sure you are loud. I love hearing it. The players love hearing it. Everyone seated next to you loves to hear it. Thanks for having my back. Have a good game parents." It made everyone laugh. It set a great tone for the game.


Smart ref.  Unfortunately, it's a shame that more refs don't do this, it would make their life easier during the game.  A quick ice breaker, a smile and a sense of humor goes a long way to build rapport with parents.  Does it always work?  Nope, but I've seen it be very effective.

Much more effective than the ref last week that told the coach and the team manager before the game that he would "let the kids play", but if he heard anything from parents he would "call everything, and slow the game way down."  He kept stopping the game to tell coaches and players that he was "the man".


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## Surfref (Sep 7, 2019)

God, I love this new sideline rule. I worked 5 games today, B15 AR, G18 CR, B12 x2 CR, G12 CR. And for 99 percent of the time no one yelled at me or my ARs. All of the managers told me they had warned all of their spectators about the new rule. We had a couple jack-wagons that yelled a couple comments to me and my youth ARs. The coach, who I did not know, stood next to me as I showed the group of dads a yellow card then the coach told them they were embarrassing their kids.  No problems after that.  What a nice day of soccer without the parents yelling.  I think I am going to like refereeing this fall.  I sure hope Cal South makes this policy standard for all leagues and tournaments.


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## coachrefparent (Sep 7, 2019)

Surfref said:


> God, I love this new sideline rule. I worked 5 games today, B15 AR, G18 CR, B12 x2 CR, G12 CR. And for 99 percent of the time no one yelled at me or my ARs. All of the managers told me they had warned all of their spectators about the new rule. We had a couple jack-wagons that yelled a couple comments to me and my youth ARs. The coach, who I did not know, stood next to me as I showed the group of dads a yellow card then the coach told them they were embarrassing their kids.  No problems after that.  What a nice day of soccer without the parents yelling.  I think I am going to like refereeing this fall.  I sure hope Cal South makes this policy standard for all leagues and tournaments.


Sounds like those Silent Saturdays that AYSO used to do. It was a bit eery with no noise.


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## MWN (Sep 9, 2019)

Supermodel56 said:


> If you don’t enjoy it, why are you doing it?!? Isn’t that what we talk about for the players?
> 
> First off, there are a lot of great refs out there,  and I agree, referee abuse is not acceptable. But I wonder if that’s part of the problem, parents see how hard their kids train to prepare for this game and yet, so often, refs just show up to the game, totally unprepared, and clearly showing they couldn’t care less....


I will share my daughters experience.  My daughter is now 19, college sophomore and referee'd for about 5 years, until she quit.  This weekend while watching her brother (2003) play she commented that she might go back and referee, but probably won't because she doesn't need the abuse.  I asked her what kind of abuse, her comment was "Dad, I don't mind the stupid parents yelling because they don't understand the laws, but the dumb coaches that don't know certain laws have changed is really frustrating.  Last year, at Surf Cup she had multiple coaches insult her because she held down her flag when a player was offside, waiting for the player to "become actively involved in the play."  She would properly wait for active involvement and then raise the flag, which caused the coaches to complain that she didn't know what she was doing because these coaches hadn't taken the time to update themselves on laws/rules that changed years ago.  Her biggest pet peeve however were the Dads who made rude remarks and leered at her while she was doing her job on the sideline.

My son (2003) who has also stopped refereeing was called into a higher level game (2001's) because of a shortage a few years ago.  The center referee was one of the better referees in the Association and believed my son could do it.  I drove him to the park (at the time he was 14 and these kids were 16), and stood behind the parents of the same club he played for at the time.  Watching him and the game because again these were older from the same club he played for.  At some point, a close call occured where a player was either even or "offside" and he didn't raise his flag.  The player scored against his home club.  Well the parents for this club were not happy because from their poor angle it was offside and admittedly the attacker had his arm outstretched pointing where he wanted the ball played.  One dad started yelling and complaining, and yelled down at my 14 year old "Hey, AR, learn the rules.  He was offside if ANY PART OF HIS BODY is across the line.  ANY PART ... [blah, blah, blah]."  This A-Hole then caused a few more dads to start in and there was a chorus of "Ya AR, any part ... you cost us a goal."  I walked down to the touchline and stood behind him and asked "Do you think they are right?"  He said, "I don't think so, but now I don't know."  I reinforced the correct rule, which he got right ... "_Offside must be parts of the body that can play the ball_."  Told him "_Don't listen to the parents they are dumbasses._"  I then turned around and in my biggest and loudest from the chest voice said:  "*Hawks parents!  Hawks parents! [Looking directly at the instigator Dad]  I have 2 things to say: 1:  Offside IS NOT ANY PART OF THE BODY hands and arms don't count, so your parent is wrong [pointing to the idiot].  2: DO NOT ADDRESS or abuse the sideline referee anymore, its against the SCDSL rules and I will not tolerate it.*"  I then went over to the idiot instigator and stood right behind him (10 feet away), watching him on his phone trying to look up the rule.  I even told him to "_Search for IFAB Law 11 for the rule._"  In the ensuing minutes after, I dealt with a few parents that wanted me to leave, I refused; some apologized for their bad behavior, some apologized for the Dads telling me they are always like this, and one or two were generally taken aback that an adult had the balls to call them out on their bad behavior and thought my presence would escallate things further.  The boy quit refereeing about 6 months later, telling me he didn't want to do it anymore because he just didn't need to hear the  stupid parents.

So what we have now are parents and coaches that drive out of the game our younger referees that are not as emotionally jaded as us older folks, leaving younger and younger kids to pick up the voids.

I have no f'ing sympathy for you or your kids and the hours of practice and privates and whatever you go through for your little one.  None whatsoever.  While you may be able to keep your mouth shut, your job is also to tell your wayward dumbass parents to keep their mouths shut.  You don't like the skill level of the referees ... too young ... too slow ... too whatever?  Stand up, look around at your sideline and you will find your answer.  Its because of the parents that abuse the referees AND the fact that the other parents lack the fortitude to stop it and shut down the idiots on your sideline.  YOU PARENTS and your dumbass coaches are why we are forced to throw inexperienced kids into the game.

Finally, how these inexperienced kids get experience is working the youngers, 9v9 games as a sideline referee with older centers.


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## coachrefparent (Sep 9, 2019)

MWN said:


> I will share my daughters experience.  My daughter is now 19, college sophomore and referee'd for about 5 years, until she quit.  This weekend while watching her brother (2003) play she commented that she might go back and referee, but probably won't because she doesn't need the abuse.  I asked her what kind of abuse, her comment was "Dad, I don't mind the stupid parents yelling because they don't understand the laws, but the dumb coaches that don't know certain laws have changed is really frustrating.  Last year, at Surf Cup she had multiple coaches insult her because she held down her flag when a player was offside, waiting for the player to "become actively involved in the play."  She would properly wait for active involvement and then raise the flag, which caused the coaches to complain that she didn't know what she was doing because these coaches hadn't taken the time to update themselves on laws/rules that changed years ago.  Her biggest pet peeve however were the Dads who made rude remarks and leered at her while she was doing her job on the sideline.
> 
> My son (2003) who has also stopped refereeing was called into a higher level game (2001's) because of a shortage a few years ago.  The center referee was one of the better referees in the Association and believed my son could do it.  I drove him to the park (at the time he was 14 and these kids were 16), and stood behind the parents of the same club he played for at the time.  Watching him and the game because again these were older from the same club he played for.  At some point, a close call occured where a player was either even or "offside" and he didn't raise his flag.  The player scored against his home club.  Well the parents for this club were not happy because from their poor angle it was offside and admittedly the attacker had his arm outstretched pointing where he wanted the ball played.  One dad started yelling and complaining, and yelled down at my 14 year old "Hey, AR, learn the rules.  He was offside if ANY PART OF HIS BODY is across the line.  ANY PART ... [blah, blah, blah]."  This A-Hole then caused a few more dads to start in and there was a chorus of "Ya AR, any part ... you cost us a goal."  I walked down to the touchline and stood behind him and asked "Do you think they are right?"  He said, "I don't think so, but now I don't know."  I reinforced the correct rule, which he got right ... "_Offside must be parts of the body that can play the ball_."  Told him "_Don't listen to the parents they are dumbasses._"  I then turned around and in my biggest and loudest from the chest voice said:  "*Hawks parents!  Hawks parents! [Looking directly at the instigator Dad]  I have 2 things to say: 1:  Offside IS NOT ANY PART OF THE BODY hands and arms don't count, so your parent is wrong [pointing to the idiot].  2: DO NOT ADDRESS or abuse the sideline referee anymore, its against the SCDSL rules and I will not tolerate it.*"  I then went over to the idiot instigator and stood right behind him (10 feet away), watching him on his phone trying to look up the rule.  I even told him to "_Search for IFAB Law 11 for the rule._"  In the ensuing minutes after, I dealt with a few parents that wanted me to leave, I refused; some apologized for their bad behavior, some apologized for the Dads telling me they are always like this, and one or two were generally taken aback that an adult had the balls to call them out on their bad behavior and thought my presence would escallate things further.  The boy quit refereeing about 6 months later, telling me he didn't want to do it anymore because he just didn't need to hear the  stupid parents.
> 
> ...


Is is possible he quit because you went to his games and made a scene confronting parents on the sideline, instead of allowing him to learn to deal with the aholes himself? Nothing a teenager hates more than a parent making a scene.   Maybe something to do with it? Possibly?

My son is the same age, and I know the abuse is hard for them, as it is for referees of all ages. But if they want to continue refereeing they need to learn for themselves to  ignore it, or have the parents ejected. It's the only thing that works for these scumbags, who will always be there.


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## watfly (Sep 9, 2019)

MWN said:


> I asked her what kind of abuse, her comment was "Dad, I don't mind the stupid parents yelling because they don't understand the laws, but the dumb coaches that don't know certain laws have changed is really frustrating.  Last year, at Surf Cup she had multiple coaches insult her because she held down her flag when a player was offside, waiting for the player to "become actively involved in the play."  She would properly wait for active involvement and then raise the flag, which caused the coaches to complain that she didn't know what she was doing because these coaches hadn't taken the time to update themselves on laws/rules that changed years ago.


I think the gaming associations should require coaches to take a 1 hour rules change course every year (refresher too if changes are limited).  It could be administered by the Club to save time and money for the coaches, if necessary.  Until a proof of attendance is provided, say to Calsouth in our case,  the coach is not allowed to coach a league game (it would be nice for tourney's but they don't usually enforce new rules until league play).  Clubs, and coaches on their own accord, should be doing this anyway, but I know it's not happening.


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## Emma (Sep 9, 2019)

watfly said:


> I think the gaming associations should require coaches to take a 1 hour rules change course every year (refresher too if changes are limited).  It could be administered by the Club to save time and money for the coaches, if necessary.  Until a proof of attendance is provided, say to Calsouth in our case,  the coach is not allowed to coach a league game (it would be nice for tourney's but they don't usually enforce new rules until league play).  Clubs, and coaches on their own accord, should be doing this anyway, but I know it's not happening.


Maybe we should have parents, coaches, and players take *in person and self pay *courses if they receive yellow or red cards.  Yellow cards 2 hour course and reds are 6 hours. They have to take a test at the end and pass it too.  If they don't finish it by their next eligible game, they don't get to join in the festivities.  I can't be responsible for other parents on my sideline, they're adults, but they'll probably hold themselves more accountable if they have to drive somewhere and listen to a lecture about being decent to other people.  You'll probably see parents & coaches not encourage so many fouls either if kids have to spend time at lectures rather than practice,.  This may reduce a lot of injuries too.


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## MWN (Sep 9, 2019)

coachrefparent said:


> Is is possible he quit because you went to his games and made a scene confronting parents on the sideline, instead of allowing him to learn to deal with the aholes himself? Nothing a teenager hates more than a parent making a scene.   Maybe something to do with it? Possibly?
> 
> My son is the same age, and I know the abuse is hard for them, as it is for referees of all ages. But if they want to continue refereeing they need to learn for themselves to  ignore it, or have the parents ejected. It's the only thing that works for these scumbags, who will always be there.


That was actually an exception.  There were many times that I was the center and he was the AR and/or he was just the AR working with other centers.  He gave it up after working a few CSL games last year.  He came home and told me he was done.  He had worked 4 games that day, all CSL teams with a high Hispanic population on the sideline that were taking the games way too seriously.  Every game was a challenge with parents and coaches challenging the referee crew.  The final straw was while walking off the field with the crew one of the parents and players confronted the referee crew and told them they were shit and the worst referee crew, yada yada yada, the rest of the parents laughed and were saying stuff in spanish and laughing and just generally having a good time with the abuse.  He came home that day said he was done.


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## Grace T. (Sep 9, 2019)

MWN said:


> That was actually an exception.  There were many times that I was the center and he was the AR and/or he was just the AR working with other centers.  He gave it up after working a few CSL games last year.  He came home and told me he was done.  He had worked 4 games that day, all CSL teams with a high Hispanic population on the sideline that were taking the games way too seriously.  Every game was a challenge with parents and coaches challenging the referee crew.  The final straw was while walking off the field with the crew one of the parents and players confronted the referee crew and told them they were shit and the worst referee crew, yada yada yada, the rest of the parents laughed and were saying stuff in spanish and laughing and just generally having a good time with the abuse.  He came home that day said he was done.


I guess I can say it because I'm Hispanic myself, but there is a cultural element to referee abuse...soccer isn't the best behaved game in Latin America (hey wars have been sparked over it....they were stupid, but still wars nonetheless)....the impression I get is that US Soccer has been reluctant to too overtly tackle this for fear of further dividing off the community (like with all the controversies over the goalkick slurs).

This weekend I found myself yelled at for the not raising the flag until the ball is played thing.  I may be wrapping it up too.  Without AYSO volunteer requirements, and with my son's middle school applications looming, I find myself taking fewer and fewer assignments (just enough so I can keep up to speed with what's going on out there so I can stay on the ground for my writing, but no more).  Don't need the money and it's just not fun.


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## MWN (Sep 9, 2019)

watfly said:


> I think the gaming associations should require coaches to take a 1 hour rules change course every year (refresher too if changes are limited).  It could be administered by the Club to save time and money for the coaches, if necessary.  Until a proof of attendance is provided, say to Calsouth in our case,  the coach is not allowed to coach a league game (it would be nice for tourney's but they don't usually enforce new rules until league play).  Clubs, and coaches on their own accord, should be doing this anyway, but I know it's not happening.


Yes, but the problem is not the rules per se, but perspective.  This is club soccer.  We are not talking about the professional leagues, but soccer played by minors for recreational purposes.  Parents and coaches need to shift their perspective.  Their player will make mistakes, the coach will make mistakes and the referee crew will make mistakes.  What happens when a mistake is make is one of perspective.  We calmly address the mistake and discuss it, don't f'ing yell about it, don't shout stupid stuff from the sideline and just roll with it.

This weekend I had the wonderful privilege of attending a game in downtown freaking LA (live in Temecula).  The referee crew didn't fully understand the offside rule that requires the offside player to "actively play" or "actively impact play" before calling an offiside.  Multiple times, the flag went up and the center was quick with a whistle before seeing whether the offside player could play the ball.  The field was very fast and frequently the ball rolled to the GK without any danger of being played by the offside player (these were 18 and 19 year olds ... fast pace).  At half, I walked over to the crew, very politely introduced myself telling them who I was, etc.  I then asked "If the offside rule changed, because I was under the impression that the player had to be actively involved in the play or impact the defenders as a result of his position."  One of the referees believed I was wrong and that offside is when the player "attempts to play, whether he has a chance or not."  We had a little discussion where I explained that "attempting" to play is not the standard because players instinctively run towards the ball but then peel off or disengage after a few steps or simply have no chance at getting to the ball before an onside player or defender does, and "we" referees should not immediately whistle play dead until the player "actively plays" or a threat of a "GK/attacker" collision, etc.  I gave a few examples, thanked them for listening and as I was about to walk away one of the referees said "Sir, thank you for talking to us the way you did, we want to do our best" in his broken English.  

My point is even with relatively experienced crews these guys are going to get stuff wrong.  Don't get up on arms about it.  No big deal.  Take an opportunity (assuming you know the Laws of the Game) and politely discuss it at half or after the game.  Treat the crew with respect, they want to do their best.

BTW - the 2nd half the crew corrected their mistake.


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## foreveryoung (Sep 9, 2019)

Emma said:


> Maybe we should have parents, coaches, and players take *in person and self pay *courses if they receive yellow or red cards.  Yellow cards 2 hour course and reds are 6 hours. They have to take a test at the end and pass it too.  If they don't finish it by their next eligible game, they don't get to join in the festivities.  I can't be responsible for other parents on my sideline, they're adults, but they'll probably hold themselves more accountable if they have to drive somewhere and listen to a lecture about being decent to other people.  You'll probably see parents & coaches not encourage so many fouls either if kids have to spend time at lectures rather than practice,.  This may reduce a lot of injuries too.


Anyone know what does happen if a coach gets a yellow card?  It happened this weekend and I wondered if there is any consequence to it other than a 2nd one in the match would have resulted in his ejection.


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## Emma (Sep 9, 2019)

foreveryoung said:


> Anyone know what does happen if a coach gets a yellow card?  It happened this weekend and I wondered if there is any consequence to it other than a 2nd one in the match would have resulted in his ejection.


Specific league rules defines the consequence. You should check on the league website to find out what the consequence is.  It's probably no consequence, just a warning.


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## MWN (Sep 9, 2019)

foreveryoung said:


> Anyone know what does happen if a coach gets a yellow card?  It happened this weekend and I wondered if there is any consequence to it other than a 2nd one in the match would have resulted in his ejection.


First of all, carding the coaches and spectators is a League Rule, the Laws of the Game don't address/allow carding non-players.  When leagues allow it, its generally just for effect.  Coaches are warned to stop whatever their behavior is through a visual public display.  Second, as @Emma states, you have to check the league rules in CSL it means nothing.  Its only when the Coach is actually kicked out of the game that consequences follow (2 game suspension, etc.).


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## Tea and Busquets (Sep 9, 2019)

MWN said:


> First of all, carding the coaches and spectators is a League Rule, the *Laws of the Game don't address/allow carding non-players.*  When leagues allow it, its generally just for effect.  Coaches are warned to stop whatever their behavior is through a visual public display.  Second, as @Emma states, you have to check the league rules in CSL it means nothing.  Its only when the Coach is actually kicked out of the game that consequences follow (2 game suspension, etc.).


No longer true. As of this year, coaches can now be shown cards. Just FYI


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## MWN (Sep 9, 2019)

Tea and Busquets said:


> No longer true. As of this year, coaches can now be shown cards. Just FYI


Thanks for the correction.  Perfect example of a semi-experienced referee (me) not knowing/appreciating a rule change.  I guess this makes me a bad guy that shouldn't referee games now?


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Sep 9, 2019)

*5 REASONS TO NOT YELL AT A REFEREE EVEN WHEN HE IS CLEARLY WRONG:*

*1: *It teaches your kids a lack of respect for authority. You think your kids will always have great bosses? Why don't you just teach your kid "If you have a bad boss, screw him, and tell it to his face". It does not matter if authority is wielding its power ineffectively, Authority is authority, and you will not get far in life if you throw a temper tantrum every time you think you could have done something better than your boss.

*2:* It teaches your children to "tilt" when faced with adversity. Harassing the referee just takes your kids focus off soccer. Instead of trying to win, some kids become more obsessed with counting how many fouls the ref calls against them. I see it all the time. You think they can mentally stew on referees mistakes and then be able to track the man he is supposed to be marking from his peripheral vision while making a heads up counterattack? No.

*3*: The bad referee is just going to view himself as a martyr and become further set in his ways. If a referee is ever going to be told he did a bad job, it will most likely be by one of his peers and it most certainly will* not* be said in public. The last person a referee will ever have an "aha" moment from is a pissed off parent.

*4:* It detracts from being able to enjoy potentially good game. Self explanatory.

*5:* It makes you look like a child. No seriously. Search "bad referee" or any other derivation in YouTube and find me a video where the parents comes off as looking better than the referee. There isn't one. Even when the referee completely missed an obvious call, somehow the parents always come off looking entitled and whiny.


The last reason is that you scare off youth referee's. That argument is true, but most parents don't care about the big picture or about others in the heat of the game. All of these reasons are the personal negatives of yelling, because I know those types of parents only care about themselves anyway.


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## watfly (Sep 9, 2019)

MWN said:


> Yes, but the problem is not the rules per se, but perspective.  This is club soccer.  We are not talking about the professional leagues, but soccer played by minors for recreational purposes.  Parents and coaches need to shift their perspective.  Their player will make mistakes, the coach will make mistakes and the referee crew will make mistakes.  What happens when a mistake is make is one of perspective.  We calmly address the mistake and discuss it, don't f'ing yell about it, don't shout stupid stuff from the sideline and just roll with it.


I agree, and I'm not pretending this would be the magic pill (in fact, it probably won't put a dent in coach abuse of refs), but its better for refs, players and parents if the coach is up to date on the latest rules.  If a new rule will impact the way my son needs to play I will give him a cursory heads up (and what the potential impact may be), but tell him that ultimately he needs to pay attention to his coach and refs' instructions.  So for this year I mentioned the new handball and goal kick rules.  Didn't mention the substitution rule because I suspect it will be handled a number of ways at refs' discretion and doesn't really impact how the game is played.  Nor did I mention the drop ball rule and wall rule since that's easy enough for the ref to handle when the situation occurs.


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## Surfref (Sep 9, 2019)

MWN said:


> First of all, carding the coaches and spectators is a League Rule, the Laws of the Game don't address/allow carding non-players.  When leagues allow it, its generally just for effect.  Coaches are warned to stop whatever their behavior is through a visual public display.  Second, as @Emma states, you have to check the league rules in CSL it means nothing.  Its only when the Coach is actually kicked out of the game that consequences follow (2 game suspension, etc.).


You are incorrect. LOTG 2019/2020 clearly states in Law 5 (bottom of page 66) that the Referee takes action against team officials who fail to act in a responsible manner and warns or shows a yellow card for a caution or a red card for a sending-off from the field of play and its immediate surrounds, including the technical area; if the offender cannot be identified, the senior coach present in the technical area will receive the sanction. 

As for what happens if a coach is Cautioned. It all depends on what the referee reports to the league. If it is a youth referee that cautions a coach for continued inappropriate comments toward the referee, I have known of coaches that received everything from a strong warning to a suspension. I know of a youth referee that wrote a report about a coach he cautioned and in the report the 14 year old referee wrote that he was too afraid to red card the coach because it would end the game (no assistant coach) and he did not want to be yelled at by the coach and parents.  There is never a reason to yell inappropriate comments, suggestions or other remarks toward a youth referee.  Even comments as tame as “that was offside” may have a negative impact on that youth referee.  When I am working with youth referees as I did this past weekend, it is my job as the adult on the crew to protect them.


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## greekgirl (Sep 9, 2019)

> As for what happens if a coach is Cautioned. It all depends on what the referee reports to the league. If it is a youth referee that cautions a coach for continued inappropriate comments toward the referee, I have known of coaches that received everything from a strong warning to a suspension. I know of a youth referee that wrote a report about a coach he cautioned and in the report the 14 year old referee wrote that he was too afraid to red card the coach because it would end the game (no assistant coach) and he did not want to be yelled at by the coach and parents.  There is never a reason to yell inappropriate comments, suggestions or other remarks toward a youth referee.  Even comments as tame as “that was offside” may have a negative impact on that youth referee.  When I am working with youth referees as I did this past weekend, it is my job as the adult on the crew to protect them.


It's not just youth referees who are scared - last year I was afraid to give a red card at a game too. I had two youth (teen) referees as AR's and it was a single field location. The irate coach stormed onto the field yelling in my face and all I could think at that point was I have to calm this man down because I've got two teens here with me and no way to get out of here without going through the parents to the parking lot. This was the only time I have been scared on a soccer field. I wrote in my match report to the league that I should have issued a red card to the coach and why. The next day I got an email from my assignor showing me the league had contacted the DOC at the club asking what had happened. The coach and several other coaches from the same club proceeded to write up horrible things about myself and the two teens (one of the teens had centered an earlier game) really childish stuff.  Not sure what the league did about it though. I will say I haven't seen that coach since then on or off the field.

We are short of referees - on Saturday I had two games where I had to ask someone to play club linesman because we didn't have enough referees to cover all the spots.


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## TangoCity (Sep 9, 2019)

Might be an unpopular opinion but I think the rule is dumb and probably nearly impossible to enforce.  Just suspend the offending person(s).


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## sweeperkeeper (Sep 9, 2019)

This is the best thing to happen in a long time.....I saw this as a parent.  You can tell the difference between last year and this year.


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## Surfref (Sep 14, 2019)

I had a game today with an AYSO Matrix team.  Two weekends in a row the only sidelines that yelled at me or my ARs were AYSO Matrix coaches and spectators.  Message to Matrix parents...your team is no longer a rec team and club games are more physical, so just shut up and cheer for your players.  It seemed like every time there was contact between players or a Matrix player fell down the crazy parents were yelling for a foul or yellow card. And, don’t get me started on the dad coaches.


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## Toch (Sep 15, 2019)

MWN said:


> I will share my daughters experience.  My daughter is now 19, college sophomore and referee'd for about 5 years, until she quit.  This weekend while watching her brother (2003) play she commented that she might go back and referee, but probably won't because she doesn't need the abuse.  I asked her what kind of abuse, her comment was "Dad, I don't mind the stupid parents yelling because they don't understand the laws, but the dumb coaches that don't know certain laws have changed is really frustrating.  Last year, at Surf Cup she had multiple coaches insult her because she held down her flag when a player was offside, waiting for the player to "become actively involved in the play."  She would properly wait for active involvement and then raise the flag, which caused the coaches to complain that she didn't know what she was doing because these coaches hadn't taken the time to update themselves on laws/rules that changed years ago.  Her biggest pet peeve however were the Dads who made rude remarks and leered at her while she was doing her job on the sideline.
> 
> My son (2003) who has also stopped refereeing was called into a higher level game (2001's) because of a shortage a few years ago.  The center referee was one of the better referees in the Association and believed my son could do it.  I drove him to the park (at the time he was 14 and these kids were 16), and stood behind the parents of the same club he played for at the time.  Watching him and the game because again these were older from the same club he played for.  At some point, a close call occured where a player was either even or "offside" and he didn't raise his flag.  The player scored against his home club.  Well the parents for this club were not happy because from their poor angle it was offside and admittedly the attacker had his arm outstretched pointing where he wanted the ball played.  One dad started yelling and complaining, and yelled down at my 14 year old "Hey, AR, learn the rules.  He was offside if ANY PART OF HIS BODY is across the line.  ANY PART ... [blah, blah, blah]."  This A-Hole then caused a few more dads to start in and there was a chorus of "Ya AR, any part ... you cost us a goal."  I walked down to the touchline and stood behind him and asked "Do you think they are right?"  He said, "I don't think so, but now I don't know."  I reinforced the correct rule, which he got right ... "_Offside must be parts of the body that can play the ball_."  Told him "_Don't listen to the parents they are dumbasses._"  I then turned around and in my biggest and loudest from the chest voice said:  "*Hawks parents!  Hawks parents! [Looking directly at the instigator Dad]  I have 2 things to say: 1:  Offside IS NOT ANY PART OF THE BODY hands and arms don't count, so your parent is wrong [pointing to the idiot].  2: DO NOT ADDRESS or abuse the sideline referee anymore, its against the SCDSL rules and I will not tolerate it.*"  I then went over to the idiot instigator and stood right behind him (10 feet away), watching him on his phone trying to look up the rule.  I even told him to "_Search for IFAB Law 11 for the rule._"  In the ensuing minutes after, I dealt with a few parents that wanted me to leave, I refused; some apologized for their bad behavior, some apologized for the Dads telling me they are always like this, and one or two were generally taken aback that an adult had the balls to call them out on their bad behavior and thought my presence would escallate things further.  The boy quit refereeing about 6 months later, telling me he didn't want to do it anymore because he just didn't need to hear the  stupid parents.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you are part of the problem


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## Poconos (Sep 16, 2019)

Toch said:


> Suspending the whole sideline for a game is great. Holding them accountable for monitoring themselves. Many times there’s the one parent that acts up and the others just encourage the behavior. Many coaches lack the balls to shut their own parents up for fear of them getting their kid and leaving.


i wonder if the players would be happier with or without their fans sometimes


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## Poconos (Sep 16, 2019)

RedCard said:


> One dad said "I'm not with that team", and if it wasn't for her dd yelling "Dad, just leave!!", he would of gotten away with it.


poor kid


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## timbuck (Sep 17, 2019)

Surfref said:


> I had a game today with an AYSO Matrix team.  Two weekends in a row the only sidelines that yelled at me or my ARs were AYSO Matrix coaches and spectators.  Message to Matrix parents...your team is no longer a rec team and club games are more physical, so just shut up and cheer for your players.  It seemed like every time there was contact between players or a Matrix player fell down the crazy parents were yelling for a foul or yellow card. And, don’t get me started on the dad coaches.


Was this a Southbay Matrix team?   3 coaches on the bench. Parents sitting along the entire sideline screaming all game.


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## Socal United (Sep 17, 2019)

I run one of the local rec leagues for our club and one of my favorite stories has to deal with the very thing surfref is talking about.  It seems in rec that parents want a foul every time there is contact.  One day one of my refs decided to prove a point as we had an age group that was especially vocal about fouling, etc.  As soon as the game started, every time two girls made contact, he called a foul.  He had told me ahead of time he was going to do it so I stood in the corner to watch.  It was honestly the most hilarious 10 minutes I had ever seen.  The poor parents, who seemed to come to the game ready to go crazy, had no idea what to say or do.  Finally, one of our long time coaches that was coaching one of the teams started smiling as he knew exactly what was happening.  He turned around to his parents and said "you want this or you want to let them play?"  The ref then decided to call the game like normal and all was good.  We didn't have a single complaint in the age group the rest of the season and that story still circulates as a lot of the families are still involved.  Sometimes drastic measures have to be taken sadly to make a point about behavior on the sideline.


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## Surfref (Sep 17, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Was this a Southbay Matrix team?   3 coaches on the bench. Parents sitting along the entire sideline screaming all game.


Dang, you must have mad Jedi Force skills. This past weekend was a Southbay team.  The yelling did not last long still nice I put a quick stop to it.  The coach was helpful and had already yelled at the parents twice to be quiet. I finally had to tell the parents to stop the yelling and the coach backed me up by saying that he would throw out the next parent that yelled.  I actually had more problems with the Matrix team from north county the prior weekend. Once again the coach was helpful and unlike the manager that wanted to complain to me after the game.  I politely and professionally ignored her and walked away to check in the teams for the next game.  I am sure during her ride home she bitched about the refs, blamed the loss on the refs, and called me an a-hole.


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## baldref (Sep 17, 2019)

Surfref said:


> Dang, you must have mad Jedi Force skills. This past weekend was a Southbay team.  The yelling did not last long still nice I put a quick stop to it.  The coach was helpful and had already yelled at the parents twice to be quiet. I finally had to tell the parents to stop the yelling and the coach backed me up by saying that he would throw out the next parent that yelled.  I actually had more problems with the Matrix team from north county the prior weekend. Once again the coach was helpful and unlike the manager that wanted to complain to me after the game.  I politely and professionally ignored her and walked away to check in the teams for the next game.  I am sure during her ride home she bitched about the refs, blamed the loss on the refs, and called me an a-hole.


you are an a-hole. no wait, that's me. My bad.....


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## MWN (Sep 18, 2019)

Surfref said:


> I had a game today with an AYSO Matrix team.  Two weekends in a row the only sidelines that yelled at me or my ARs were AYSO Matrix coaches and spectators.  Message to Matrix parents...your team is no longer a rec team and club games are more physical, so just shut up and cheer for your players.  It seemed like every time there was contact between players or a Matrix player fell down the crazy parents were yelling for a foul or yellow card. And, don’t get me started on the dad coaches.


AYSO parents (not so much the players) experience a culture shock moving from the warm protective blanket of AYSO to Cal South club soccer.  I once watched an entire sideline of AYSO Matrix parents going ballistic because their player went down to the ground with a leg injury (knee or ankle ... not head) in mid field.  The Center allowed play to continue (advantage) while the player writhed on the ground holder her knee.   Aside from the more comical shout outs "EVERYBODY TAKE A KNEE!!!!" from a few parents, there were a chorus of parents shouting to "REF, STOP PLAY, STOP PLAY!!!"  The Center stopped play when the ball went out and dealt with the injured player.  The sideline was apoplectic that the Ref did not stop play immediately and had such callous disregard for the injury to their player.


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## timbuck (Sep 18, 2019)

MWN said:


> AYSO parents (not so much the players) experience a culture shock moving from the warm protective blanket of AYSO to Cal South club soccer.  I once watched an entire sideline of AYSO Matrix parents going ballistic because their player went down to the ground with a leg injury (knee or ankle ... not head) in mid field.  The Center allowed play to continue (advantage) while the player writhed on the ground holder her knee.   Aside from the more comical shout outs "EVERYBODY TAKE A KNEE!!!!" from a few parents, there were a chorus of parents shouting to "REF, STOP PLAY, STOP PLAY!!!"  The Center stopped play when the ball went out and dealt with the injured player.  The sideline was apoplectic that the Ref did not stop play immediately and had such callous disregard for the injury to their player.


I’ve seen plenty of non AYSO sidelines do this.


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## coachrefparent (Sep 18, 2019)

timbuck said:


> I’ve seen plenty of non AYSO sidelines do this.


Especially when the other team scored (or was threatening to).  Never when the injured team did the same.


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## Grace T. (Sep 19, 2019)

MWN said:


> AYSO parents (not so much the players) experience a culture shock moving from the warm protective blanket of AYSO to Cal South club soccer.


The AYSO players experience the culture shock too...they just adapt to it quicker since they are younger and more flexible, and also since they are in the middle of it (when the lightbulb goes off and they discover they can be physical too is especially fun to watch).  My son's United team, which ultimately won their bracket, struggled at first during the summer tournaments and the coaches even had to hold sessions regarding body checks.  AYSO's referee training puts a lot more emphasis on making sure the kids are safe and having fun (in that order) which is in part where the mentality comes from...another is the level of competition they've been exposed to (even in All Stars and Extras).  Finally, because of a lot of AYSO teams are made up of strikers because of the exams they have in place to select the teams, AYSO teams have a tendency to play a run and shoot game (YMMV)...against teams that seek to break up that fast play by grinding them down, they can get frustrated.

But as to the parents, since most kids starts in AYSO anyways, the same is pretty much true for any first year parents (except for those maybe coming out of Latino leagues).


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