# Youth Soccer Rankings



## Surf Zombie (Sep 1, 2017)

Love that site. Curious if tournament directors use it as s tool to slot teams into the various brackets?


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## labanLB (Sep 1, 2017)

Doubt it


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## StylinAndProfilin (Sep 1, 2017)

I don't know any tournament directors, but anecdotally last season's G2006 State Cup the top ranked teams at the time were kept away from each other, and bracket assignment roughly correlated with YSR's rankings. It's more accurate than GotSoccer, that's for sure.


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## forsomuch (Sep 1, 2017)

StylinAndProfilin said:


> I don't know any tournament directors, but anecdotally I know that for last season's G2006 State Cup the top ranked teams at the time were kept away from each other, and bracket assignment roughly correlated with YSR's rankings. It's more accurate than GotSoccer, that's for sure.


Cal South State/National cup bracketing/seeding is outlined in the rules, definitely do not use it.  

I doubt any tournament director would admit to using it even if they looked at it for reference.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 1, 2017)

GotSoccer is useless.


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## StylinAndProfilin (Sep 1, 2017)

forsomuch said:


> Cal South State/National cup bracketing/seeding is outlined in the rules, definitely do not use it.
> 
> I doubt any tournament director would admit to using it even if they looked at it for reference.


Link? I'd love to read the rules.


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## Bubba (Sep 1, 2017)

StylinAndProfilin said:


> Link? I'd love to read the rules.


https://youthsoccerrankings.us/rankings/National/All/Both/

Hope I did this right


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## futboldad1 (Sep 1, 2017)

StylinAndProfilin said:


> Link? I'd love to read the rules.


I believe this is what you're asking for.

http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/State_Tournaments/2017/2017CSNationalCupV17100816.pdf?rev=114F

On the original question, yes I think some tournaments use it. It's very good apart from when there's glitches. ie. right now CRL results are not showing even though they were previously.


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## Surf Zombie (Sep 1, 2017)

futboldad1 said:


> I believe this is what you're asking for.
> 
> http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/State_Tournaments/2017/2017CSNationalCupV17100816.pdf?rev=114F
> 
> On the original question, yes I think some tournaments use it. It's very good apart from when there's glitches. ie. right now CRL results are not showing even though they were previously.


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## Surf Zombie (Sep 1, 2017)

That's actually what got me thinking in the first place. There is a glitch for my daughter's 07 team where it is picking up results from both her team and the 08 team from out club. I tried to do the manual fix but it didn't work.


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## TangoCity (Sep 1, 2017)

YSR would be accurate if they were able to correctly place teams in the correct age group, didn't have the same team listed multiple times in the same age group and didn't miss a lot of game results.  Their algorithm is solid but everything else is not good.  YSR is a one man crew and obviously way overwhelming of a job (understandably) for him.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 1, 2017)

TangoCity said:


> YSR would be accurate if they were able to correctly place teams in the correct age group, didn't have the same team listed multiple times in the same age group and didn't miss a lot of game results.  Their algorithm is solid but everything else is not good.  YSR is a one man crew and obviously way overwhelming of a job (understandably) for him.


I too see errors, but he seems to correct them along the way. And if you email him he will adjust.


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## TangoCity (Sep 1, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I too see errors, but he seems to correct them along the way. And if you email him he will adjust.


I emailed him stuff 2 or 3 months ago.  Still not fixed.  He use to fix things.  But after he quit the site and then came back there are a ton of errors.  Teams from younger and older age group in the same rankings with games for those teams interchanged.  It is too big of a project for a one person (non paid) show.


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## GunninGopher (Sep 1, 2017)

TangoCity said:


> YSR would be accurate if they were able to correctly place teams in the correct age group, didn't have the same team listed multiple times in the same age group and didn't miss a lot of game results.  Their algorithm is solid but everything else is not good.  YSR is a one man crew and obviously way overwhelming of a job (understandably) for him.


Are you trying to correct the mistakes yourself? The system is in place for it. I've used it now and then and usually works. I'm sure you've seen the "Report errors" button on the right.


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## TangoCity (Sep 1, 2017)

GunninGopher said:


> Are you trying to correct the mistakes yourself? The system is in place for it. I've used it now and then and usually works. I'm sure you've seen the "Report errors" button on the right.


I have emailed the owner of the site directly.  2+ years ago the change would be made in less than 72 hours.  All the changes I've requested in the past 6 months never got changed.  So I don't request anymore.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 1, 2017)

TangoCity said:


> I have emailed the owner of the site directly.  2+ years ago the change would be made in less than 72 hours.  All the changes I've requested in the past 6 months never got changed.  So I don't request anymore.


Wow! That's all I can say.


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## sdb (Sep 2, 2017)

Have emailed about mistakes using the report button, and seen changes made reasonably quickly. It's the best thing out there that I've found to look at relative rankings, even with mistakes.


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## GunninGopher (Sep 3, 2017)

TangoCity said:


> I have emailed the owner of the site directly.  2+ years ago the change would be made in less than 72 hours.  All the changes I've requested in the past 6 months never got changed.  So I don't request anymore.


I agree that he used to be very responsive. Then he built in the self service error reporting and hasn't had to be so hands-on. If you haven't tried it, I suggest you do. It has worked when I've used it.


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## socalkdg (Sep 4, 2017)

TangoCity said:


> I have emailed the owner of the site directly.  2+ years ago the change would be made in less than 72 hours.  All the changes I've requested in the past 6 months never got changed.  So I don't request anymore.


Some of the changes have worked for me. Others when I have to include my email don't work as I get a message stating the email address is a problem.

Tango's rankings were really good.


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## Surf Zombie (Sep 5, 2017)

I'm surprised someone else hasn't volunteered to take it over/help out. 

It's a very cool concept. Too bad things are not up to date.


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## soccerobserver (Sep 5, 2017)

SZ, he shut down the site last year and everybody freaked out. He said it was too overwhelming and he was doing it for free and for fun. Some posters reported that they had offered to help or even "buy in" but I dont recall what happened to those offers or if they were even true. So after the public outcry he started it back up. But my guess is it's still an overwhelmingly task to maintain. Maybe someone can volunteer to help him invest in a staff ?? It's a great service he provides.


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## Brian (Sep 12, 2017)

Does the site update throughout the season, or only at the end?


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 12, 2017)

Brian said:


> Does the site update throughout the season, or only at the end?


It usually updates by Tuesday or Wednesday after the previous weekends games. But as some have mentioned there are errors.


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## rocket_file (Sep 12, 2017)

It is a great resource and shows how irrelevant gotsoccer rankings are. The predictive power of YSR is uncanny, although there are some assumptions such as boys v girls and age v age that I think are inaccurate. 

I am sure it is an overwhelming task.

There have certainly been offers to help or get involved from posters here and probably elsewhere.

I'm guessing the guy who runs it is either integrating some of those offers or forging ahead solo and that is why the site has been a little more spotty than normal.

But big cheers to him regardless!


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## Deadpoolscores! (Sep 12, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> It usually updates by Tuesday or Wednesday after the previous weekends games. But as some have mentioned there are errors.


Think they will include the 09 when they update it? Seems like the lowest age group is 08.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 12, 2017)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> Think they will include the 09 when they update it? Seems like the lowest age group is 08.


Over the years he has added age groups. But I'd say no. More than likely it has to do with first establishing a team and at that age group they are building their resume.


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## Coach_JimmyZ (Sep 12, 2017)

I noticed today that the application for Surf Cup asks for team info from youth soccer rankings site


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## Deadpoolscores! (Sep 13, 2017)

Coach_JimmyZ said:


> I noticed today that the application for Surf Cup asks for team info from youth soccer rankings site


That's new...so basically if some teams don't participate in the higher ranking tournaments chances of getting the necessary points to have a go ranking stance will not give teams opportunities. Yet at the same time this will be great for the higher ranking tournaments and more money for them as well. Just a theory for making more money perhaps for those clubs that have higher ranking tournaments.


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## Frank (Sep 13, 2017)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> That's new...so basically if some teams don't participate in the higher ranking tournaments chances of getting the necessary points to have a go ranking stance will not give teams opportunities. Yet at the same time this will be great for the higher ranking tournaments and more money for them as well. Just a theory for making more money perhaps for those clubs that have higher ranking tournaments.


I am not sure it is the tournament specific as it is more just playing and results versus higher competition. get you higher ranked.  The Surf application also asked for the 5 results against higher level competition.  That was new.


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## Bubba (Sep 13, 2017)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> That's new...so basically if some teams don't participate in the higher ranking tournaments chances of getting the necessary points to have a go ranking stance will not give teams opportunities. Yet at the same time this will be great for the higher ranking tournaments and more money for them as well. Just a theory for making more money perhaps for those clubs that have higher ranking tournaments.


Youth Soccer rankings does not go by tournaments even though it list them. He goes by head to head competition against a opponent, he's  got a algorithm which figures either you should win or lose ,and your rating goes up and down even within the same tournament. I think our team has barely won a game and our ranking score has goes down because the algorithm calculates you should have defeated the team by a bigger margin


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## Mackerel Sam (Sep 13, 2017)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> ...so basically if some teams don't participate in the higher ranking tournaments chances of getting the necessary points to have a go ranking stance will not give teams opportunities.


Actually, this is precisely what Youth Soccer Rankings did not do, and why I like that site so much and wish it had the resources to get current. 

It is not a point based ranking system like GotSoccer. Instead it is a form of power ranking that only takes game results into account. It doesn't care whether those results are from a regular season game, or a tournament, or what kind of tournament. It simply looks at the game score and the ranking of the opponent. By having a giant database of recent games, it can look at results between common opponents, and common opponents of opponents, etc,  to build a mathematical power ranking that is more accurate than the point based system you mention and which is used by GotSoccer.

The point value assigned to teams by Youth Soccer Rankings  is not a reflection of how many tournaments the team entered, or the perceived quality of those tournaments. Instead, the point value assigned to the team is a power ranking value that can be used to predict how two teams will fare head-to-head. Simply subtract the  value for the two teams and that predicts by how many goals one team would beat the other.

I discovered it last year and followed it for the teams in our regular season bracket, as well as the tournaments we entered and I was quite surprised and impressed how good its predictive value was.

p.s. I am not associated with the site in any way. I am just a fan who thinks highly of concept and the implementation.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Sep 13, 2017)

Mackerel Sam said:


> Actually, this is precisely what Youth Soccer Rankings did not do, and why I like that site so much and wish it had the resources to get current.
> 
> It is not a point based ranking system like GotSoccer. Instead it is a form of power ranking that only takes game results into account. It doesn't care whether those results are from a regular season game, or a tournament, or what kind of tournament. It simply looks at the game score and the ranking of the opponent. By having a giant database of recent games, it can look at results between common opponents, and common opponents of opponents, etc,  to build a mathematical power ranking that is more accurate than the point based system you mention and which is used by GotSoccer.
> 
> ...


Sounds good to me.


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## Surf Zombie (Sep 13, 2017)

I wish there was a way to get some of the errors fixed. I see that you can manually fix some of easier issues such as team name or age, but as an example my daughter's 2007 team won a big tournament over Labor Day (3W & 1D) but the site confused the results with our club's 2008 team which was playing up in age (1D & 2L). So my daughter's 2007 team dropped down 10 spots into the teens and the 2008 team jumped way up to the top of the Region. It's also thrown a bunch of other teams results out of whack because it looks like they beat a very strong 2007 team or lost to a weaker 2008 team, while the opposite is actually true.


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## coachrefparent (Sep 13, 2017)

Surf Zombie said:


> I wish there was a way to get some of the errors fixed. I see that you can manually fix some of easier issues such as team name or age, but as an example my daughter's 2007 team won a big tournament over Labor Day (3W & 1D) but the site confused the results with our club's 2008 team which was playing up in age (1D & 2L). So my daughter's 2007 team dropped down 10 spots into the teens and the 2008 team jumped way up to the top of the Region. It's also thrown a bunch of other teams results out of whack because it looks like they beat a very strong 2007 team or lost to a weaker 2008 team, while the opposite is actually true.


You can fix this automatically. Go to correct team then remove games played by another team. And vice versa, do report missing competition. Wait a few days for changes.


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## Surf Zombie (Sep 13, 2017)

I actually tried that but it only shows games played by my D's team.  When that happened in the past it was an easy fix, just like you suggest.


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## jrcaesar (Sep 13, 2017)

The new site manager, Ryan, has been sending notes back about fixes that I suggested (some of Coast Soccer league games were duplicated into different age groups), so he's working on things. The problem I noticed was just fixed.


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## Surf Zombie (Sep 13, 2017)

jrcaesar said:


> The new site manager, Ryan, has been sending notes back about fixes that I suggested (some of Coast Soccer league games were duplicated into different age groups), so he's working on things. The problem I noticed was just fixed.


Is there an email address to send correction to other than: mark@usyouthsoccerrankings.com


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## Brian (Sep 13, 2017)

I was able to remove some games that were posted to us but played by another team in our club, as well as add some tournament games from Labor Day.  The changes we enacted by the following day.


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## tylerdurden (Sep 14, 2017)

rocket_file said:


> It is a great resource and shows how irrelevant gotsoccer rankings are. The predictive power of YSR is uncanny, although there are some assumptions such as boys v girls and age v age that I think are inaccurate.
> 
> I am sure it is an overwhelming task.
> 
> ...


I've emailed him a couple times about some problems and he's always been pretty responsive. The one thing I'd like to see them do is break out the USSDA teams into their own category. DA and non-DA never get to play each other, so in my opinion, putting them in together muddies up the rankings. They emailed me back recently and said they were looking into doing it, which is great news.


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## mirage (Sep 14, 2017)

A question.  Why is the ranking so important?

Just think about it beyond the obvious for moment.  Does it really matter?


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## Surf Zombie (Sep 14, 2017)

My only concern with it is Tournament acceptance and placement. As someone mentioned above, Surf Cup asks for it on its application. MyD's team does 10 tournaments a year and it's always nice to have the top seeds appropriately spread out over the different brackets.  Not saying YSR is the end all be all of figuring that out but I suspect it plays into the equation when you are playing in an unfamiliar event.


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## Frank (Sep 14, 2017)

mirage said:


> A question.  Why is the ranking so important?
> 
> Just think about it beyond the obvious for moment.  Does it really matter?


Very simple; Tournaments use it and others to determine if you are accepted.  it is sort of a way to ensure quality teams and competitive balance


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## jrcaesar (Sep 14, 2017)

Surf Zombie said:


> Is there an email address to send correction to other than: mark@usyouthsoccerrankings.com


@Surf Zombie - I saw your post but didn't have the info at the time. The Mark address is still valid, but Ryan is the one running it. The reply address I see from Ryan is wonky because he's using a customer messaging platform (Intercom, _good sign that he's serious). _I'd stick with the mark@ address from the How to Report An Error block.


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## Surf Zombie (Sep 14, 2017)

jrcaesar said:


> @Surf Zombie - I saw your post but didn't have the info at the time. The Mark address is still valid, but Ryan is the one running it. The reply address I see from Ryan is wonky because he's using a customer messaging platform (Intercom, _good sign that he's serious). _I'd stick with the mark@ address from the How to Report An Error block.


Thanks!


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## mirage (Sep 14, 2017)

The high-end tournaments use gotsoccer rankings along with reputation and club recognition.  Not the ranking we're discussing herein.  You've clearly notice that these high end tournaments (e.g., Surf, Dallas, etc) are all top gotsoccer points awards, right?

I hope you guys don't believe its all based on "ranking" to get into some of these tournaments.  Its a very small community at the upper-end of youth soccer.  Year-after-year, same set of clubs send their top teams to these tournaments, not based on rankings/points alone.

Since many top tournaments (Surf, Disney, etc) are running "qualifier" tournaments, doing well there is perhaps more important than ranking itself, unless you are in top 10 in the nation for more than a moment, if you want to rely strictly on results.

So with all that said, why is the ranking still so important, now that we've discussed the obvious....


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## TangoCity (Sep 14, 2017)

Shouldn't a good tournament director be able to tell the levels of each team?  Most of the tournaments that we've played in have had teams placed in the appropriate brackets except for the Las Vegas tournament that obviously went strictly by GotSoccer points.


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## tylerdurden (Sep 14, 2017)

TangoCity said:


> Shouldn't a good tournament director be able to tell the levels of each team?  Most of the tournaments that we've played in have had teams placed in the appropriate brackets except for the Las Vegas tournament that obviously went strictly by GotSoccer points.


Unless this has changed, one of the things that I've found that makes GotSoccer less accurate is that they don't poll games from SCDSL, only Coast (not sure about Presidio). The Coast teams are weighted higher as a result.


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## Bananacorner (Sep 14, 2017)

TangoCity said:


> Shouldn't a good tournament director be able to tell the levels of each team?  Most of the tournaments that we've played in have had teams placed in the appropriate brackets except for the Las Vegas tournament that obviously went strictly by GotSoccer points.


You would think -- but I know a very reputable tournament that didn't appear to look at rankings or past performance, they just went by what the team asked for.  In this instance, the team wanted to sandbag, win the lower bracket and accumulate Got Soccer points, so they asked to be placed in the lower bracket.  The tournament director obliged, even though they play at a higher level and have more Gotsoccer points (and YSL ranking) than 75% of the teams in the higher bracket.


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## coachrefparent (Sep 14, 2017)

Bananacorner said:


> You would think -- but I know a very reputable tournament that didn't appear to look at rankings or past performance, they just went by what the team asked for.  In this instance, the team wanted to sandbag, win the lower bracket and accumulate Got Soccer points, so they asked to be placed in the lower bracket.  The tournament director obliged, even though they play at a higher level and have more Gotsoccer points (and YSL ranking) than 75% of the teams in the higher bracket.


What team was that?


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## Surf Zombie (Sep 14, 2017)

TangoCity said:


> Shouldn't a good tournament director be able to tell the levels of each team?  Most of the tournaments that we've played in have had teams placed in the appropriate brackets except for the Las Vegas tournament that obviously went strictly by GotSoccer points.


I think that holds true more so with the older teams, especially when the majority of the teams are local known commodities. My daughter plays for a club in the Boston area and we do all of the big east coast tournaments from New England to Florida, so we see a lot of unfamiliar competition. 

As an example we did a tournament in PA in late August. Our U12-U14 teams were all appropriately placed in the top brackets for their ages. However, my daughter's U11 (2007) team couldn't crack the top bracket (which had 12 teams) despite being one of the strongest 2007 teams in the tournament. Their YSR was all messed up from picking up games from another team.  It got sorted out last minute and they went on to make the semis in the top bracket, getting beaten by the eventual champs.  

Is it a coincidence the tournament director tried to place them lower with that messed up YSR? Not sure.


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## Bananacorner (Sep 14, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> What team was that?


I'm not going to call them out publicly, but this is the third time I've noticed they have done this.  In 2 of the cases I alerted the Tournament director to the issue.  The first time the Tournament Director was pissed off and dropped the team from the tournament -it was still early enough.  The second time I caught it too late and schedules were already out, so the Tournament director just played dumb, kept the team as is, and let them sweep the division with no problem.

That is one of the main reason I hate the GotSoccer rankings -- it encourages sandbagging behavior for some who are just looking for rankings.

Oh, and also this club will have their teams drop out of a tournament if they see the competition is tougher than they thought.  They wait as long as possible to see who signs up, then they go for a lower bracket, but if another higher-level team sneaks in at the last minute, they just drop out of the tournament.


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## coachrefparent (Sep 14, 2017)

Bananacorner said:


> I'm not going to call them out publicly, but this is the third time I've noticed they have done this.  In 2 of the cases I alerted the Tournament director to the issue.  The first time the Tournament Director was pissed off and dropped the team from the tournament -it was still early enough.  The second time I caught it too late and schedules were already out, so the Tournament director just played dumb, kept the team as is, and let them sweep the division with no problem.
> 
> That is one of the main reason I hate the GotSoccer rankings -- it encourages sandbagging behavior for some who are just looking for rankings.
> 
> Oh, and also this club will have their teams drop out of a tournament if they see the competition is tougher than they thought.  They wait as long as possible to see who signs up, then they go for a lower bracket, but if another higher-level team sneaks in at the last minute, they just drop out of the tournament.


Wow. Now I really want to know. Dirtbags should be called out, assuming its true.


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## TangoCity (Sep 14, 2017)

There is nothing to gain by having a lot GotSoccer points.  If someone is trying to win the GotSoccer points race then they probably aren't the brightest bunch.


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## Surf Zombie (Sep 15, 2017)

I agree that Got Soccer Rankings are useless. That said, I wonder if some clubs try to rack up Got Soccer Points in order to tout their program to those who aren't in the know? 

Ironically, the #1 ranked 2007 Got Soccer team in the country at the moment is NEFC Central Elite Red. In reality, they are probably a top 50-60 team nationally. My daughter's team beat them in the final of the FC Stars Labor Day tournament earlier this month and the Got Soccer points went to another team from our club by mistake!  Looks like Got Soccer isn't all that accurate either!


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## chargerfan (Sep 15, 2017)

Surf Zombie said:


> I agree that Got Soccer Rankings are useless. That said, I wonder if some clubs try to rack up Got Soccer Points in order to tout their program to those who aren't in the know?
> 
> Ironically, the #1 ranked 2007 Got Soccer team in the country at the moment is NEFC Central Elite Red. In reality, they are probably a top 50-60 team nationally. My daughter's team beat them in the final of the FC Stars Labor Day tournament earlier this month and the Got Soccer points went to another team from our club by mistake!  Looks like Got Soccer isn't all that accurate either!


There are a few teams that have racked up points playing flight 2 in lower level tournaments this summer. Got Soccer is a joke.


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## mirage (Sep 15, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> There are a few teams that have racked up points playing flight 2 in lower level tournaments this summer. Got Soccer is a joke.


Question on your statement.  Gotsoccer awards almost no points for flight 2/lower tier bracket.  If they do we're talking about few hundreds.  By simply beating team with higher ranking gets you more points, regardless of the flight.  If just winning a game vs lower ranked team gets you nothing or 50 pints.

How do you rack up points by playing in flight 2 bracket or lower tiered tournaments for that matter?


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## futboldad1 (Sep 15, 2017)

mirage said:


> Question on your statement.  Gotsoccer awards almost no points for flight 2/lower tier bracket.  If they do we're talking about few hundreds.  By simply beating team with higher ranking gets you more points, regardless of the flight.  If just winning a game vs lower ranked team gets you nothing or 50 pints.
> 
> How do you rack up points by playing in flight 2 bracket or lower tiered tournaments for that matter?


Usually you'd be correct saying this but look at the ridiculously high points girls teams got for winning flight two "blue" at Blues Cup this past week. They were all third tier teams yet they got rewarded like it was a flight one tourney! It really adds even more weight to the argument that GotSoccer rankings are meaningless. 

YSR may have its glitches but it's pretty darned accurate and shames the other "systems".


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## NumberTen (Sep 15, 2017)

mirage said:


> Question on your statement.  Gotsoccer awards almost no points for flight 2/lower tier bracket.  If they do we're talking about few hundreds.  By simply beating team with higher ranking gets you more points, regardless of the flight.  If just winning a game vs lower ranked team gets you nothing or 50 pints.
> 
> How do you rack up points by playing in flight 2 bracket or lower tiered tournaments for that matter?


This is what happened to our team this year.  Last year our team had a very poor showing and this year there was a lot of changes to the roster and the team got drastically better.  Every tournament that we played this summer we were assigned to flight two and finished 1 or 2 in most.  After the first two or three we had to many points and often received 0 points for 1st or 2nd.  If your points are to high relative to the available points for the flight, your calculated points are often negative.


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## chargerfan (Sep 15, 2017)

mirage said:


> Question on your statement.  Gotsoccer awards almost no points for flight 2/lower tier bracket.  If they do we're talking about few hundreds.  By simply beating team with higher ranking gets you more points, regardless of the flight.  If just winning a game vs lower ranked team gets you nothing or 50 pints.
> 
> How do you rack up points by playing in flight 2 bracket or lower tiered tournaments for that matter?


In the 04 age group, Rebels got approximately 300 more points for winning the united cup against flight 2 teams than surf got for being a semi-finalist at surf cup in the DA bracket.  This is just one example. Got soccer is a joke.


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## 1dad2boys (Sep 15, 2017)

My understanding is that you can use GotSoccer points at Starbucks. We were pushing the kids because with just a few more wins, all the parents and coaches get a free latte.


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## mirage (Sep 15, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> In the 04 age group, Rebels got approximately 300 more points for winning the united cup against flight 2 teams than surf got for being a semi-finalist at surf cup in the DA bracket.  This is just one example. Got soccer is a joke.


Not a good example, because everyone knows that DA teams can only participate in handful of tournaments so the points don't reflect meaningful values.  You can only compare DA teams to each other and not to the age group as a whole.  For that just use USSDA standings. It would be a better comparison to see what was awarded in Surf Cup Black (or White, depending on age and gender) bracket than DA bracket.

United Cup does have higher points and its by design (read that however you want). Higher points attracts more teams, which leads to more revenue for the club.  No secret.  Just a simple math.

Regardless if one wins versus flight 2/Silver Elite team, points are based on the bracket and not the team you play against.

As "number ten" stated, what happened there is common.  few years ago, our older kid's team won a local tournament in flight 1 and got zero points.  At the same time, some of the points expired and the net result was losing several spots in ranking.

While Mark's ranking maybe better reflecting how team is ranked, its not used for anything other than by parents to kibitz like we're doing.  I don't know of a single tournament that uses YSR for acceptance or placement.


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## Surf Zombie (Sep 15, 2017)

From s couple pages back:

*Coach_JimmyZPremier Member*
I noticed today that the application for Surf Cup asks for team info from youth soccer rankings


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## dawson (Sep 21, 2017)

Last year youth soccer rankings recorded results from SCDSL and CSL . This year the results from league play  have not been  reflected in the rankings .


Anyone  know why  ?


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## Frank (Sep 21, 2017)

dawson said:


> Last year youth soccer rankings recorded results from SCDSL and CSL . This year the results from league play  have not been  reflected in the rankings .
> 
> 
> Anyone  know why  ?


They post after the season completes.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 22, 2017)

mirage said:


> United Cup does have higher points and its by design (read that however you want). Higher points attracts more teams, which leads to more revenue for the club.  No secret.  Just a simple math.


This is one of the reasons GOT Soccer is a joke in terms of rankings (excellent Tournament Software) but by no means gives an accurate picture of the quality of a team. Especially with the growth of TGS as a software (which has got to be the worst Tournment software).


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## rocket_file (Sep 22, 2017)

Frank said:


> They post after the season completes.


No. Not the case.

They used to update daily, including all CSL and SCDSL games.

They haven't yet this year. Something is going on either with the team or the algorithm. 

I am hopeful it will be for the best and we will be back to having very current updates soon.


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## SocalPapa (Sep 22, 2017)

rocket_file said:


> No. Not the case.
> 
> They used to update daily, including all CSL and SCDSL games.
> 
> ...


I looked at a fall league in another part of the country and all their games are added, but I also noticed that league uses the Gotsoccer software.  Maybe youthsoccerrankings is only adding games as Gotsoccer is updated.


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## GunninGopher (Sep 22, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> I looked at a fall league in another part of the country and all their games are added, but I also noticed that league uses the Gotsoccer software.  Maybe youthsoccerrankings is only adding games as Gotsoccer is updated.


I doubt Got Soccer will add the games before the season ends for leagues that aren't using their software.

Presidio and SDDA are updating in Youth Soccer Rankings (YSR) as the season progresses. Presidio uses Affinity, which is the same as State/National cup. 

YSR must be having problems syncing with Coast and SCDSL. I suspect YSR doesn't have an automatic way to pull SportsEngine standings, at least to post the results. 

If you look at the bottom of a team's YSR page, you'll see where the data came from. 

By the way, I was able to merge 2 team pages into 1 using the automated error correction system. At some point, YSR had split all my daughter's team's Got Soccer games onto a separate team from all of their other games.


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## tylerdurden (Sep 22, 2017)

GunninGopher said:


> YSR must be having problems syncing with Coast and SCDSL. I suspect YSR doesn't have an automatic way to pull SportsEngine standings, at least to post the results.


I think YSR has developed custom crawlers to pull most of this data. They clearly pull from league sites that don't have APIs that would support doing this the right way. I was very surprised when I saw they were pulling from an Oxnard Spring League this past year.

Unless this is one of those times where the admin is bogged down and wants to walk away, I'm pretty confident that they'll get this worked as both leagues are pretty important metric-wise.


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## dawson (Sep 28, 2017)

tylerdurden said:


> I think YSR has developed custom crawlers to pull most of this data. They clearly pull from league sites that don't have APIs that would support doing this the right way. I was very surprised when I saw they were pulling from an Oxnard Spring League this past year.
> 
> Unless this is one of those times where the admin is bogged down and wants to walk away, I'm pretty confident that they'll get this worked as both leagues are pretty important metric-wise.


If you look at YSR National rankings for all age groups both girls and boys , its clear that Cal South is one of the more dominate regions in the nation.
In prior years YSR has pulled the results from SCDSL and CSL games several days after the games were played . Evidently there were no technical problems.
This year September is almost over and no games from these leagues have been recorded  . Basicly Cal South results for rankings are frozen.

Interestingly , Presideo and Cal North league games are being recorded . It just seems peculiar that *both* of the top leagues in Cal South are not being updated for league games. 

Anyone have any comments or insights ?


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## coachrefparent (Sep 28, 2017)

There are obviously issues behind the scenes. I know of teams that have submitted their gaming results to YSR (in Presidio/SDDA) and those are not being updated. I wish the owners would reach out here, as  I know many who would contribute with skills and money to help the site.


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## Surf Zombie (Sep 29, 2017)

To that point, does anyone know who built/runs the website? At this point it appears to be on autopilot and errors are not being corrected, with the exception of the ones that can be manually fixed.


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## tylerdurden (Sep 29, 2017)

Surf Zombie said:


> To that point, does anyone know who built/runs the website? At this point it appears to be on autopilot and errors are not being corrected, with the exception of the ones that can be manually fixed.


IIRC, it's privately owned and operated by a guy named Ryan Sherry. He's walked away from it a couple times, due to the time constraints (it's a volunteer thing) and come back. If it isn't pulling the right leagues, it's pretty much useless. Until he gets Coast and SCDSL plugged in, the metrics are wrong and it's not worth looking at.


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## SocalPapa (Sep 29, 2017)

Many pay attention to these rankings.  This recent Beach FC feature even lists the national YSR rankings of all the opponents one of their teams had vanquished at Surf (as if winning the highest bracket in Surf wasn't noteworthy enough):  https://beachfutbolclub.com/perez05surf/  Hope he gets Coast and SCDSL plugged in soon!


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## Sons of Pitches (Sep 29, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> There are obviously issues behind the scenes. I know of teams that have submitted their gaming results to YSR (in Presidio/SDDA) and those are not being updated. I wish the owners would reach out here, as  I know many who would contribute with skills and money to help the site.


I wish they would put a pay pal button up, or a link to a go fund me page with a minimum goal to keep the site up to date.


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## LBCTrojan (Sep 29, 2017)

rocket_file said:


> No. Not the case.
> 
> They used to update daily, including all CSL and SCDSL games.
> 
> ...


I emailed Ryan Sherry and asked him about the SCSDL & CSL scores not updating. His reply, "We have several issues with the loaders that we are working on fixing. It may take us a little while but Mark should have them fixed soon and then this should be resolved. Thank you for your feedback!"


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## Zdrone (Oct 2, 2017)

LBCTrojan said:


> I emailed Ryan Sherry and asked him about the SCSDL & CSL scores not updating. His reply, "We have several issues with the loaders that we are working on fixing. It may take us a little while but Mark should have them fixed soon and then this should be resolved. Thank you for your feedback!"


I shot them an email a couple weeks ago regarding a tournament that didn't get show up.  I received the following today:



> Hello,
> 
> Thank you for reaching out.
> 
> ...


Sounds consistent with what you heard.


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## Brian (Oct 6, 2017)

YSR now has CSL fall results included.


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## Zdrone (Oct 6, 2017)

Brian said:


> YSR now has CSL fall results included.


Thanks Brian,

Is there an issue with SCDSL schedule?


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## SocalPapa (Oct 9, 2017)

Zdrone said:


> I shot them an email a couple weeks ago regarding a tournament that didn't get show up.  I received the following today:
> Hello,
> 
> Thank you for reaching out.
> ...


Their problem picking up total global sports competitions seems to have been solved!  Results from ECNL and other TGS competitions (like Players Cup) now up too.


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## SocalPapa (Oct 11, 2017)

Zdrone said:


> Thanks Brian,
> 
> Is there an issue with SCDSL schedule?


SCDSL results now included.  But with poor linking to teams.  Hopefully people will use the automatic correction feature to fix their team's rankings.  It updates pretty quick and makes all the results more accurate.


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## Canicas (Oct 12, 2017)

Do season play wins, losses or ties impact these rankings?


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## GunninGopher (Oct 13, 2017)

Canicas said:


> Do season play wins, losses or ties impact these rankings?


I believe that every match impacts a team's rankings. Even those of other teams.


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## BeepBeep Boop (Oct 14, 2017)

Canicas said:


> Do season play wins, losses or ties impact these rankings?


From observation the site updates about 2-3 times per day and the rankings are recalculated every time. Every game, whether season or tournament, factors into the ranking.


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## rocket_file (Oct 26, 2017)

My optimism that YSR would get its act together has faded. The rankings have gone from uncannily accurate last year to almost completely irrelevant this year. I understand it is a massive undertaking, but whatever changes took place several months ago when the site almost shut down have been for the worse.


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## Zdrone (Oct 26, 2017)

rocket_file said:


> My optimism that YSR would get its act together has faded. The rankings have gone from uncannily accurate last year to almost completely irrelevant this year. I understand it is a massive undertaking, but whatever changes took place several months ago when the site almost shut down have been for the worse.


What are you seeing?  After the fix for scdsl it’s been working for our team


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## rocket_file (Oct 26, 2017)

I would give you some specific examples but YSR appears to be down currently.

Off the top of my head, many teams have only this years league matches and nothing from tournaments or last Fall or last Spring. Others have only tournaments.


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## etc1217 (Oct 26, 2017)

rocket_file said:


> I would give you some specific examples but YSR appears to be down currently.
> 
> Off the top of my head, many teams have only this years league matches and nothing from tournaments or last Fall or last Spring. Others have only tournaments.


What I have noticed is that some teams have two separate rankings for the same team.  Where one would have the tournaments and past games  while the other just had their league games.  Our team did and I just emailed YSR and had them combined the two.  I think the reason was, it is looking for the exact name of the team and if it can't find it, it creates a new ranking (i.e. Strikers Southbay G01 vs Strikers FC Southbay G01)


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## Coach_JimmyZ (Oct 26, 2017)

rocket_file said:


> I would give you some specific examples but YSR appears to be down currently.
> 
> Off the top of my head, many teams have only this years league matches and nothing from tournaments or last Fall or last Spring. Others have only tournaments.


fix the teams that have those errors. if you know for the there is an error,  just click on the team then click on report errors. if there are multiple accounts for the same team, it'll let you merge the accounts together. you can add missing tournaments by providing a link to the results page of the tournament. most changes are updated by the next day. 

just be sure to search the age group for multiple entries for a team. search by club and coach's last name too. then request to merge accounts.


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## Zdrone (Oct 26, 2017)

Coach_JimmyZ said:


> fix the teams that have those errors. if you know for the there is an error,  just click on the team then click on report errors. if there are multiple accounts for the same team, it'll let you merge the accounts together. you can add missing tournaments by providing a link to the results page of the tournament. most changes are updated by the next day.
> 
> just be sure to search the age group for multiple entries for a team. search by club and coach's last name too. then request to merge accounts.


I had to do this for our team as well. We had 3 team names to merge then remove a similarly named (different age bracket) team. Took a few hours and it showed the proper games. 

Each tournament and/or league seems to list us differently.


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## BeepBeep Boop (Oct 27, 2017)

In the 2006 age group somebody got a little you aggressive with merges and merged San Diego Surf's B and C team, which happen to be coached by the same guy.


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## Brian (Oct 27, 2017)

YSL has been working very well and accurately for our team since they corrected the missing CSL fall season.


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## SocalPapa (Oct 27, 2017)

BeepBeep Boop said:


> In the 2006 age group somebody got a little you aggressive with merges and merged San Diego Surf's B and C team, which happen to be coached by the same guy.


You can fix that.  There is an automatic unmerge option too.


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## timmyh (Oct 27, 2017)

I wish there was a way to upload non - gotsoccer events. There are parts of the country that are data less.


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## Surf Zombie (Feb 7, 2018)

Looks like the YSR site hasn’t been updated since 1/27.  What’s the dilly yo?


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## coachrefparent (Feb 7, 2018)

SocalPapa said:


> You can fix that.  There is an automatic unmerge option too.


Its not as easy as you think. For example if the team has some games from a gaming circuit (SDDA, etc), and only wants to remove some of those games/seasons/flights that are in error you can't do that. It's all or nothing.


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## RichMan (Feb 7, 2018)

Surf Zombie said:


> Looks like the YSR site hasn’t been updated since 1/27.  What’s the dilly yo?


Agreed.   Still awaiting CRL scores to post from as far back as 1/15.


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