# Girls DPL?



## Soccerreccos

Has anyone heard anything about girls DPL/ DAII or whatever they are calling it this week?  We haven't seen a schedule for the fall and haven't seen any "DPL" teams come up in any showcases or tournaments all summer.


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## Carpediem

I don't have any info about DA 2 however it appears to me that there was a bunch of those teams playing at the Silverlakes Showcase this past weekend.  

https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=401


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## Eagle33

Soccerreccos said:


> Has anyone heard anything about girls DPL/ DAII or whatever they are calling it this week?  We haven't seen a schedule for the fall and haven't seen any "DPL" teams come up in any showcases or tournaments all summer.


I heard that DA II will be playing in their own league and schedule will depend on DA schedule. For example if DA playing on Sat, DA II will be playing on Sun. We just have to wait and see.


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## bababooey

Yes, we will have to wait for the schedule.

Here is a suggestion I would like to see with the DA Reserve teams.......decide on a uniform naming protocol for these teams. I have seen the DA "B" team go by, "DA Reserve", "DA II" or "DA DPL". It cannot be that difficult.


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## Monkey

bababooey said:


> Yes, we will have to wait for the schedule.
> 
> Here is a suggestion I would like to see with the DA Reserve teams.......decide on a uniform naming protocol for these teams. I have seen the DA "B" team go by, "DA Reserve", "DA II" or "DA DPL". It cannot be that difficult.


It is DPL. DA did not want them using their name.

More info will have to wait.  There will be more movement on the DA teams, which you will see happen right after Surf Cup.  Thereafter, some DA players will be bumped to the DPL team and it will be time to get the popcorn out and enjoy the show.


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## SoccerLife75

Monkey said:


> It is DPL. DA did not want them using their name.
> 
> More info will have to wait.  There will be more movement on the DA teams, which you will see happen right after Surf Cup.  Thereafter, some DA players will be bumped to the DPL team and it will be time to get the popcorn out and enjoy the show.



Will they really bump girls that have been told they are DA and some fully funded, to the DPL team?  

Also when will they tell girls that are on a DPL team if they will be DP Players or was that a big hoax too?


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## Monkey

SoccerLife75 said:


> Will they really bump girls that have been told they are DA and some fully funded, to the DPL team?
> 
> Also when will they tell girls that are on a DPL team if they will be DP Players or was that a big hoax too?


Yes why would they not bump kids on DA if a better player comes along?  However, they can only do that before rosters are due and then once mid-season.  I doubt they would bump fully funded kids because they would not scholarship them if they were bubble players.

DP players are a joke.  Think about it.  Subs are limited in the game so there are going to be plenty of bench warmers on DA teams.  Why would they then add another bench warmer unless they are smart enough to see that the natives are getting restless and do it to appease some parents.  Then again, DP players are limited to something like 6 games a year and not during the playoffs.

If you think the "D" in DA and DPL stands for development you have serious denial issues.


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## Eagle33

Monkey said:


> Yes why would they not bump kids on DA if a better player comes along?  However, they can only do that before rosters are due and then once mid-season.  I doubt they would bump fully funded kids because they would not scholarship them if they were bubble players.
> 
> DP players are a joke.  Think about it.  Subs are limited in the game so there are going to be plenty of bench warmers on DA teams.  Why would they then add another bench warmer unless they are smart enough to see that the natives are getting restless and do it to appease some parents.  Then again, DP players are limited to something like 6 games a year and not during the playoffs.
> 
> If you think the "D" in DA and DPL stands for development you have serious denial issues.


You missing very important part - DP players can play somewhere else while being DP. They can play DPL, Flight 1, HS or whatever else.


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## jpeter

Eagle33 said:


> You missing very important part - DP players can play somewhere else while being DP. They can play DPL, Flight 1, HS or whatever else.


DP's are limited use in DA,  0-3 per team and fewer as the ages go up, historically.

Between the Oct- April windows DP's can be added with the expectation they have been regularly training with the DA team and are ready to play.

Once you start with DA even as a DP after the start of HS you can't go back and forth and play until the HS is over if you're trying to do both & a club is accommodating


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## Simisoccerfan

I think it all depends on how the club is treating their bubble players.  Did they roster a full 23 players with their bubble players on the DA team or do they have a roster of 19-21 and put the bubble players on their second team for more playing time?  If the DA has a full roster of 23 I agree that chances are slim to none that a DP gets any time at the DA level.  If the roster is 19 or 20 and there are any injuries I believe it is very likely DP players will be used with the chance of being moved full time into the DA.


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## SoccerLife75

Some DA teams only have at most 15 players.  This weekend there were multiple 03 DA teams with 15 or less players. I still don't see how they are going to get to 20-23 players, when there isn't enough kids to fill all the spots at each level.


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## LadiesMan217

SoccerLife75 said:


> Some DA teams only have at most 15 players.  This weekend there were multiple 03 DA teams with 15 or less players. I still don't see how they are going to get to 20-23 players, when there isn't enough kids to fill all the spots at each level.


20-23???? Why 20-23? The three teams I know coaches personally capped their roster at 18 and another has 23 because they are all about money and girls wanted on team.


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## gkrent

Does anyone know when the DPL schedule is coming out?  I wonder who's in charge of that...


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## jpeter

gkrent said:


> Does anyone know when the DPL schedule is coming out?  I wonder who's in charge of that...


All these new DA teams with 30+ games in the 4 age groups each with upfront scheduling is making field assisgments tougher to come by.

Hopefully things get sorted and they don't pull a Cal South and put most games out at Norco, San Bernardino, Galloway, etc.


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## Simisoccerfan

Heard the schedule should be out any day.  Suppose to be home and away games lining up with what teams the DA is playing as much as possible.


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## bababooey

Now that the OC Great Park is opening up more fields this weekend, does anyone know if they will host more league games (ECNL, DA, SCDSL, etc.)? This location is so much better than San Bernardino, Silverlakes or Gallway Downs.


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## Kicker4Life

bababooey said:


> Now that the OC Great Park is opening up more fields this weekend, does anyone know if they will host more league games (ECNL, DA, SCDSL, etc.)? This location is so much better than San Bernardino, Silverlakes or Gallway Downs.


Especially if you live right there.


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## Soccerreccos

Anything?  We heard we would get a schedule by yesterday at the latest but still nothing. Doesn't the season start in a few weeks??  This is ridiculous!


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## Kicker4Life

Soccerreccos said:


> Anything?  We heard we would get a schedule by yesterday at the latest but still nothing. Doesn't the season start in a few weeks??  This is ridiculous!


SCDSL doesn't have their schedules out yet either. Not sure about CSL but this is par for the course with SoCal leagues.   It isn't just a DPL thing.


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## jpeter

Mad scramble to secure field permits, DA given priority and most are still working on completing those.   CSL, DSL, and others are picking up most of the rest so don't be surprised if DPL goes CS and plays at Galaway, Norco, or the like.


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## GoWest

ECNL schedules not out yet either. Though GDA schedule is up it lacks times and fields last I looked. I'm sure schedules for all leagues will be posted in the near future.


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## Desert Hound

ECNL schedule should be up any day. 

We have been given dates....just not the actual club, time, field.


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## uburoi

The more we pay the slower they work on the schedules !


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## SoccerLife75

I heard games will start Labor Day weekend any one else can confirm.


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## Kicknit22

SoccerLife75 said:


> I heard games will start Labor Day weekend any one else can confirm.


I saw that the DA schedule was adjusted recently to start the following weekend, so my guess would be the same for DPL.


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## younothat

Kicknit22 said:


> I saw that the DA schedule was adjusted recently to start the following weekend, so my guess would be the same for DPL.


Nope;  Saturday, September 2 2017 is the start of GDA

Legends FC  hosting at SilverLakes Sports Complex
So Cal Blues at Oceanside
Beach Futbol Club at Toyota Sports Complex
LA Galaxy at StubHub Center
San Diego Surf at Surf Sports Park


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## bababooey

Kicker4Life said:


> Especially if you live right there.


Sorry, I did not see your response until now.

The reason I suggested OCGP over Silverlakes, Gallway Downs or San Bernardino Complex is weather related. At the OCGP, you don't have to worry about the intense heat or high winds. Plus the fields are just nicer.


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## Kicker4Life

bababooey said:


> Sorry, I did not see your response until now.
> 
> The reason I suggested OCGP over Silverlakes, Gallway Downs or San Bernardino Complex is weather related. At the OCGP, you don't have to worry about the intense heat or high winds. Plus the fields are just nicer.


Wasn't debating it.....it's the closest venue to me of those you listed, has free parking and lots of food and activities very close by.


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## Kicknit22

younothat said:


> Nope;  Saturday, September 2 2017 is the start of GDA
> 
> Legends FC  hosting at SilverLakes Sports Complex
> So Cal Blues at Oceanside
> Beach Futbol Club at Toyota Sports Complex
> LA Galaxy at StubHub Center
> San Diego Surf at Surf Sports Park


My bad!  I guess I should have looked beyond one team, lol!


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## Soccerreccos

Still no word on a schedule.... anyone heard anything?  Are these kids going to play this season or what?


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## Monkey

Ask the tracksuit wearing used cars salesmen:
 Mike Duggan 619/994-6440
Noah Ginns 619/279-2812


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## Simisoccerfan

I have seen the schedule with teams and dates but no times or fields yet


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## Striker17

Monkey said:


> Ask the tracksuit wearing used cars salesmen:
> Mike Duggan 619/994-6440
> Noah Ginns 619/279-2812


What's your hang up with Noah and Mike? 
So many axes to grind around here with fake screen names and aliases.


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## Soccerreccos

If these clubs would communicate openly and honestly with families, I don't think there would be any hang ups. Some families feel that clubs over promised and have under delivered and really are making zero effort to make things right. 

Ideally, the leadership at these clubs would be proactive or minimally react by responding to inquiries and would give it to families straight. If this was happening, this post would not be here and we would not be left wondering what has happened with our investment in this year of club soccer.


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## Striker17

I am all for transparency believe me. Not a slam on a curious parent at all. 
The thing I find distasteful is when coaches from other clubs come on here acting like they are parents when they are attempting to slander another club. That is not cool. Be careful not to fall into a trap around here. There have been plenty of people "upset with a league" who are ECNL club coaches. 
I am not accusing Monkey of that behavior but there are five well known other posters who play that game. No not calling them out so don't ask


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## Striker17

Soccerreccos said:


> If these clubs would communicate openly and honestly with families, I don't think there would be any hang ups. Some families feel that clubs over promised and have under delivered and really are making zero effort to make things right.
> 
> Ideally, the leadership at these clubs would be proactive or minimally react by responding to inquiries and would give it to families straight. If this was happening, this post would not be here and we would not be left wondering what has happened with
> our investment in this year of club soccer.


On a side note I have never heard Gins or Dugan accused of not being straight forward. To the contrary I have heard that they are too straight and hurt parents feelings...so I would encourage you to email and call those numbers.


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## jpeter

Simisoccerfan said:


> I have seen the schedule with teams and dates but no times or fields yet


With all the local field space issues with all the other leagues that have prority I won't be surprised if they are at Norco or shared complexs.   Some clubs are getting fined for not having the field permits like they promised in the other leagues.  

Wishfull thinking league , let's hope teams have real home games.


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## Monkey

Soccerreccos said:


> If these clubs would communicate openly and honestly with families, I don't think there would be any hang ups. Some families feel that clubs over promised and have under delivered and really are making zero effort to make things right.
> 
> Ideally, the leadership at these clubs would be proactive or minimally react by responding to inquiries and would give it to families straight. If this was happening, this post would not be here and we would not be left wondering what has happened with our investment in this year of club soccer.


I agree with you completely.  I am not a coach and don't have an axe to grind.  I would just like to see someone be held accountable.  

Ginns is going around claiming he is the one that put together this new league and the website is registered in Duggan's name.  If they are going to claim that they are doing great things for kids with DPL, they should be held accoutable and respond.  Both clubs have plenty of coaches and DPL parents that frequent this site and I am sure several parents have asked their coaches and managers but now it is claimed that they don't have contol over the schedules.  Geeze even Presidio has their schedules out yet DPL parents can't even get an answer as to which weekend it starts.  Some people do like to make plans for Labor Day weekend if their team is not playing.


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## mirage

jpeter said:


> With all the local field space issues with all the other leagues that have prority I won't be surprised if they are at Norco or shared complexs.....


They may end up playing at a single venue (i.e., CSL Premier games), as you say but consider the following:

- Fields are allocated to clubs, not leagues or teams normally, with few exceptions
- Priority is set by each city and rec programs have the highest priority as you probably know
- DPL website states that they'll often play at the same venue as the DA games

So most likely outcome is that some of the games will be at the same venue as DA games and others where the home club normally plays their teams.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Monkey said:


> I agree with you completely.  I am not a coach and don't have an axe to grind.  I would just like to see someone be held accountable.
> 
> Ginns is going around claiming he is the one that put together this new league and the website is registered in Duggan's name.  If they are going to claim that they are doing great things for kids with DPL, they should be held accoutable and respond.  Both clubs have plenty of coaches and DPL parents that frequent this site and I am sure several parents have asked their coaches and managers but now it is claimed that they don't have contol over the schedules.  Geeze even Presidio has their schedules out yet DPL parents can't even get an answer as to which weekend it starts.  Some people do like to make plans for Labor Day weekend if their team is not playing.


I am pretty sure that he, along with the other DOC you reference, are the ones that created the league  (whether it was necessary is a different argument/conversation).  
Actually the DAII website is registered to someone else (happens to be an employee of a club here in Carlsbad).
The LAGSD slide show from the 2/6/2017 DA/DAII presentation laid out a lot of what the tentative plan was.
I am sure that field time will be an issue in Carlsbad; there are a LOT of competitive & rec teams and limited space.
I agree with you about Labor Day.  It is always nice to know the schedule in advance. 
If we are going to give the club DOCs a hard time for over selling DAII, I would ask you this:  If the DAII players & parents are happy, isn't that enough?


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## Monkey

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> I am pretty sure that he, along with the other DOC you reference, are the ones that created the league  (whether it was necessary is a different argument/conversation).
> Actually the DAII website is registered to someone else (happens to be an employee of a club here in Carlsbad).
> The LAGSD slide show from the 2/6/2017 DA/DAII presentation laid out a lot of what the tentative plan was.
> I am sure that field time will be an issue in Carlsbad; there are a LOT of competitive & rec teams and limited space.
> I agree with you about Labor Day.  It is always nice to know the schedule in advance.
> If we are going to give the club DOCs a hard time for over selling DAII, I would ask you this:  If the DAII players & parents are happy, isn't that enough?


It would be enough if DAII players and parents are happy, but aren't the parents on here and in the age specific threads complaining about not knowing the schedule?  Stop complaining if you are happy and wait for schedules like all the other leagues.


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## Desert Hound

Well I am sure they have having fun with scheduling. These DA2 teams will play in a CA league. So they have to wait and look at those schedules. Then do not forget that AZ has a DPL team too. So AZ just posted their league info. So now however is running the DPL has to consider both the CA league schedule and the AZ league schedule and then look to see when teams can play. That is a lot of juggling. Some may say a pain 

And in AZ from what I hear...the parents at del Sol are wondering about scheduling, etc. and not terribly pleased at this point about the lack of info.


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## gkrent

This isn't anything different from SCDSL LOL  Why is everyone so surprised there is no schedule yet?


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## jpeter

mirage said:


> They may end up playing at a single venue (i.e., CSL Premier games), as you say but consider the following:
> 
> - Fields are allocated to clubs, not leagues or teams normally, with few exceptions
> - Priority is set by each city and rec programs have the highest priority as you probably know
> - DPL website states that they'll often play at the same venue as the DA games
> 
> So most likely outcome is that some of the games will be at the same venue as DA games and others where the home club normally plays their teams.


Sounds logical but in reality has not happened.  Leagues require teams provide field space and permits by certain dates.  Some clubs are in 3-4 leagues so who is getting priority? DA, ECNL, DSL, CSL, Presidio and then everybody else? 

DA is a much higher priority yet some clubs are still struggling just to get enough space and get those games scheduled.   Longshot at this point to think there is room to squeeze another set of teams in with them.


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## mirage

jpeter said:


> Sounds logical but in reality has not happened.  Leagues require teams provide field space and permits by certain dates.  Some clubs are in 3-4 leagues so who is getting priority? ...


League requires the club to provide fields, not teams (unless its an independent single team, in which case will not qualify for SCDSL (5 team min) and CSL has a basket to catch independent team under a single imaginary club for administrative purposes).

How it gets prioritized is up to the club, not the league or teams.  If a club is struggling to get fields, it won't matter what or how many leagues they are playing.


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## Kicker4Life

Desert Hound said:


> Well I am sure they have having fun with scheduling. These DA2 teams will play in a CA league. So they have to wait and look at those schedules. Then do not forget that AZ has a DPL team too. So AZ just posted their league info. So now however is running the DPL has to consider both the CA league schedule and the AZ league schedule and then look to see when teams can play. That is a lot of juggling. Some may say a pain
> 
> And in AZ from what I hear...the parents at del Sol are wondering about scheduling, etc. and not terribly pleased at this point about the lack of info.


DAII teams will only play in DPL from what I'm told.


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## Desert Hound

Kicker4Life said:


> DAII teams will only play in DPL from what I'm told.


Actually that is not the case. If you look at the AZ schedule you will see the del Sol DAII team is playing games in that league. Maybe CA is different.


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## Lightning Red

jpeter said:


> Sounds logical but in reality has not happened.  Leagues require teams provide field space and permits by certain dates.  Some clubs are in 3-4 leagues so who is getting priority? DA, ECNL, DSL, CSL, Presidio and then everybody else?
> 
> DA is a much higher priority yet some clubs are still struggling just to get enough space and get those games scheduled.   Longshot at this point to think there is room to squeeze another set of teams in with them.


Spot on. For instance,  looks like Blues doesn't know where the DA teams will be playing. Lots of TBD's on those schedules.


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## Kicker4Life

Desert Hound said:


> Actually that is not the case. If you look at the AZ schedule you will see the del Sol DAII team is playing games in that league. Maybe CA is different.


Yes, I meant SoCal.  But I don't know that all DA2 teams in SoCal will participate.


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## Monkey

Desert Hound said:


> Actually that is not the case. If you look at the AZ schedule you will see the del Sol DAII team is playing games in that league. Maybe CA is different.


If you mean they are playing in an Arizona league then good for them.  The travel for DA is ridiculous especially on top of the 4 days a week training.  Not so bad in SoCal since we have so many teams, but looking at the NorCal teams they are traveling everywhere from Washington to San Diego quiet often just as the Arizona team is coming out to SoCal.  Now for a DA II team to do this travel is a joke so I really hope that it is limited to SoCal and not include the Arizona team (other than for showcases).  Their time would be better spent training than traveling and I don't believe any of their DAII teams with the exception of Beach could match top SCDSL and CSL teams.


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## Simisoccerfan

http://primetimesportz.bonzidev.com/schedules

Schedules are up.  Looks like some the games are to be played at the same time and complex as DA games.  SC del Sol only needs to travel out to So Cal 3 times.  Finally where in the heck is St Jeanne?  LA Galaxy's home field?


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## jpeter

Simisoccerfan said:


> http://primetimesportz.bonzidev.com/schedules
> 
> Schedules are up.  Looks like some the games are to be played at the same time and complex as DA games.  SC del Sol only needs to travel out to So Cal 3 times.  Finally where in the heck is St Jeanne?  LA Galaxy's home field?


Catholic School in Santa Ana.

Some strange venues:  Pine Park, Poinsetta Park,  St Jeanne, UC high school, Rose Mofford, etc.

Very few games at da venues besides Silverlakes & Grande, don't appear to be at most of the venues da plays at? Maybe Pierce college?

Grande sport world is really nice so that should be a fun trip to AZ.

Does the season go past mid November?


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## Simisoccerfan

Pleasant Valley is a DA site.  So is Toyota Complex.


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## Lightning Red

jpeter said:


> Catholic School in Santa Ana.
> 
> Some strange venues:  Pine Park, Poinsetta Park,  St Jeanne, UC high school, Rose Mofford, etc.
> 
> Very few games at da venues besides Silverlakes & Grande, don't appear to be at most of the venues da plays at? Maybe Pierce college?
> 
> Grande sport world is really nice so that should be a fun trip to AZ.
> 
> Does the season go past mid November?



Pine Avenue Park & Poinsettia Park are both in Carlsbad (turf for both)  The LAGSD girls DA teams all practice at Poinsettia Park.  Both very nice complexes.


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## Kicker4Life

Simisoccerfan said:


> Pleasant Valley is a DA site.  So is Toyota Complex.


As is El Camino CC.


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## CopaMundial

Lightning Red said:


> Pine Avenue Park & Poinsettia Park are both in Carlsbad (turf for both)  The LAGSD girls DA teams all practice at Poinsettia Park.  Both very nice complexes.


Pine doesn't have stands or bleachers, but it is brand new turf as of this summer. Not sure about Poinsettia. Last I was at Poinsettia, it showed some signs of use. Has it been updated lately? Haven't been there in a few years. 

In regards to previous posts and comments, does that mean that DPL teams are playing the same weekend as teams in DA, but not necessarily at the same location? Guess I'm not sure what this DPL league is trying to accomplish. But more importantly, is it confirmed that all DPL teams will play the same weekend as the DA showcases and at the same venue? That's the money ticket right there! If any of you were in Illinois for ECNL playoffs, you would know what it looks like to be the sad step sister for the ECNL. If you weren't in Champions League, you got the hose. Fields off to the back or even off site. No coaches. Or very few. Not sure it's worth it for lower level teams to even travel for some of these showcases.


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## Lightning Red

CopaMundial said:


> Pine doesn't have stands or bleachers, but it is brand new turf as of this summer. Not sure about Poinsettia. Last I was at Poinsettia, it showed some signs of use. Has it been updated lately? Haven't been there in a few years.
> 
> In regards to previous posts and comments, does that mean that DPL teams are playing the same weekend as teams in DA, but not necessarily at the same location? Guess I'm not sure what this DPL league is trying to accomplish. But more importantly, is it confirmed that all DPL teams will play the same weekend as the DA showcases and at the same venue? That's the money ticket right there! If any of you were in Illinois for ECNL playoffs, you would know what it looks like to be the sad step sister for the ECNL. If you weren't in Champions League, you got the hose. Fields off to the back or even off site. No coaches. Or very few. Not sure it's worth it for lower level teams to even travel for some of these showcases.


Poinsettia had new turf laid prior to the start of last season.


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## Simisoccerfan

Eagles has 4/9 games at the same date and Complex as DA on fields side by side


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## CopaMundial

Simisoccerfan said:


> Eagles has 4/9 games at the same date and Complex as DA on fields side by side


That's great, but honestly, it's the showcases that count. You are more likely to have college coaches at your practices to see certain players and YNT kids, than you are to see coaches at many league games. I can't believe DA is going to change anything that ECNL hasn't already seen. It's all about showcases and Playoffs. Now will those be played at the same venue and same dates?


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## Simisoccerfan

I don't believe so. DA is run by USSDA and DPL is not.  DPL is guaranteed Silverlakes Showcase in November and Players Showcase in Vegas so no worries about having to get in to those events.   Don't expect to see DA teams there since they are in league.  Also the DA showcases and playoffs are on different dates then those showcases so no conflicts for coaches other than Surf Cup.  I don't think the ECNL showcases conflict with either also.   The bottom line though is both DA and ECNL showcases draw more coaches than any other showcase.


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## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> I don't believe so. DA is run by USSDA and DPL is not.  DPL is guaranteed Silverlakes Showcase in November and Players Showcase in Vegas so no worries about having to get in to those events.   Don't expect to see DA teams there since they are in league.  Also the DA showcases and playoffs are on different dates then those showcases so no conflicts for coaches other than Surf Cup.  I don't think the ECNL showcases conflict with either also.   The bottom line though is both DA and ECNL showcases draw more coaches than any other showcase.


Are they guaranteed in those showcases as their own flight or will
they be placed according to their true ablity?


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## Simisoccerfan

Fact said:


> Are they guaranteed in those showcases as their own flight or will
> they be placed according to their true ablity?


Don't know and don't care.  At the older age groups those events are about individual exposure not team wins.  I believe most DPL teams will compete in National Cup.  You can wait till then if you desire to measure teams.


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## CopaMundial

Simisoccerfan said:


> Don't know and don't care.  At the older age groups those events are about individual exposure not team wins.  I believe most DPL teams will compete in National Cup.  You can wait till then if you desire to measure teams.


So does that mean that DPL will feed into National cup like CRL did? Just wondering how far we are asking college coaches and scouts to spread? Only so much money and time. Maybe these so called "useless" camps and "showcases" might be the better choice for the mid tier player. Coaches of late have expressed their approval. Any thoughts?


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## jpeter

CopaMundial said:


> So does that mean that DPL will feed into National cup like CRL did? Just wondering how far we are asking college coaches and scouts to spread? Only so much money and time. Maybe these so called "useless" camps and "showcases" might be the better choice for the mid tier player. Coaches of late have expressed their approval. Any thoughts?


Dpl is a Cal South league, teams can pay $$ & play in the national cup tournament just like they do for all the leagues, CSL, DSL, etc.

This league is just like the others is far as scouting goes, rarely will you see college coaches at league games unless they coach one of teams playing.

DA has there own scouting network paid by ussda that evaluation players, teams at least 6x a year.  They will be at the regular league games and showcases. They have no reasons & relationship to look at DPL or other league players.

The 9 games in the fall part of league is about 6 fewer compared to DA or CSL during that same time frame for example so hopefully more games are scheduled.


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## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> Don't know and don't care.  At the older age groups those events are about individual exposure not team wins.  I believe most DPL teams will compete in National Cup.  You can wait till then if you desire to measure teams.


If you are going to say how great it is that DPL teams automatically get in these showcases, you should know and care what flight they will be playing in.  Most of the time the bottom flights don't even play at the same fields in Vegas and thus I suspect ZERO coaches will make the effort to go and see one or two players when their time is better spent watching the top players who are all at the same field.

I can't compete with the Kool-Aide that has already gone to your head.  Wait for National Cup.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Fact said:


> If you are going to say how great it is that DPL teams automatically get in these showcases, you should know and care what flight they will be playing in.  Most of the time the bottom flights don't even play at the same fields in Vegas and thus I suspect ZERO coaches will make the effort to go and see one or two players when their time is better spent watching the top players who are all at the same field.
> 
> I can't compete with the Kool-Aide that has already gone to your head.  Wait for National Cup.


No Kool Aide drinking here. At Silverlakes in the summer the DPL teams were in the top flight with several other non DA teams.  It remains to be seen where they will be in the next showcases.  Likely top flight for November showcases and near the top at Vegas.  

Our situation is a bit unique living in Ventura County.  After the two DA the next best teams up here are in DPL.  The drive to other DA teams is insane.  Even more insane to OC for ECNL.  The top flight SCSDL and CSL teams have all changed players or folded.  What remains here is weaker than DPL.  Its about picking the best option for your kid.


----------



## Kicker4Life

ECNL has eliminated their presence in LA and Ventura Counties only to increase their presence in SD County.


----------



## RU4REAL

Kicker4Life said:


> ECNL has eliminated their presence in LA and Ventura Counties only to increase their presence in SD County.


Which is kinda backwards thinking.  Why increase a presence in a county heavily saturated with other ENCL and multiple DA programs.  Go for the bang for your buck and look and higher populated and underrepresented areas to build and improve your brand.  Just saying.


----------



## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> The top flight SCSDL and CSL teams have all changed players or folded.  What remains here is weaker than DPL.  Its about picking the best option for your kid.


Are ypu speaking of Ventura County?


----------



## Justafan

"you"


----------



## Kicker4Life

RU4REAL said:


> Which is kinda backwards thinking.  Why increase a presence in a county heavily saturated with other ENCL and multiple DA programs.  Go for the bang for your buck and look and higher populated and underrepresented areas to build and improve your brand.  Just saying.


Agreed....as it's been said before, ECNL's big misstep was not having Enough presence in LA county.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Yes


----------



## equipo

My DD missed the cut for a DA2 team earlier this year.  She happily stayed with her F1 team.  Then early July the DA2 team called her back.  And though she guest-played with them, by early July she was getting involved with HS sports.  To join the DA2 team meant she would have to train 3-4 times a week and that type of schedule wouldn't allow her to continue in HS sports.  So she decided to stick with her F1 team and HS sports.  I thought it was the wrong decision but it was her decision and I fully support her.

So once the DPL schedule posted I took an eager look feeling like my DD would be missing out on this 'exclusive DA type league'.  I was under the impression DA2 would mirror DA.  But the schedules of both leagues tell a different story.  DA schedule runs Sep'17-Jun'18 with 29 games & DPL schedule runs Sep'17-Nov'17 with 9 games.  The DPL schedule mirrors more with what we see in SCDSL and CSL, not the DA.  Maybe more games will be posted for DPL later?  I also see several DA2 teams are in CRL.  But they're middle of the pack and not necessarily having the success I thought a DA2 team would against F1 type teams.  Maybe DA2 rosters are still being worked out?

The DA2 team gave my DD an invitation to join any time.  So I encouraged her to keep that option open but with all I mention above now I'm not too sure.  I'm interested in the thoughts and opinions of DA2 parents.  Are you satisfied with the delivery of what you've seen thus far?  What are your opinions on the DPL schedule?  Other than schedule, are you seeing the DA2 program mirror the DA?  How are the higher club fees being justified to you?  What is the good stuff with DA2 I can relay to my DD for consideration?


----------



## TangoCity

Simisoccerfan said:


> No Kool Aide drinking here. At Silverlakes in the summer the DPL teams were in the top flight with several other non DA teams.  It remains to be seen where they will be in the next showcases.  Likely top flight for November showcases and near the top at Vegas.
> 
> Our situation is a bit unique living in Ventura County.  After the two DA the next best teams up here are in DPL.  The drive to other DA teams is insane.  Even more insane to OC for ECNL.  The top flight SCSDL and CSL teams have all changed players or folded.  What remains here is weaker than DPL.  Its about picking the best option for your kid.


Depends on the age group.  There are non DA/DPL teams better than DPL in your area (depending on age group).


----------



## Desert Hound

equipo said:


> My DD missed the cut for a DA2 team earlier this year.  She happily stayed with her F1 team.  Then early July the DA2 team called her back.  And though she guest-played with them, by early July she was getting involved with HS sports.  To join the DA2 team meant she would have to train 3-4 times a week and that type of schedule wouldn't allow her to continue in HS sports.  So she decided to stick with her F1 team and HS sports.  I thought it was the wrong decision but it was her decision and I fully support her.
> 
> So once the DPL schedule posted I took an eager look feeling like my DD would be missing out on this 'exclusive DA type league'.  I was under the impression DA2 would mirror DA.  But the schedules of both leagues tell a different story.  DA schedule runs Sep'17-Jun'18 with 29 games & DPL schedule runs Sep'17-Nov'17 with 9 games.  The DPL schedule mirrors more with what we see in SCDSL and CSL, not the DA.  Maybe more games will be posted for DPL later?  I also see several DA2 teams are in CRL.  But they're middle of the pack and not necessarily having the success I thought a DA2 team would against F1 type teams.  Maybe DA2 rosters are still being worked out?
> 
> The DA2 team gave my DD an invitation to join any time.  So I encouraged her to keep that option open but with all I mention above now I'm not too sure.  I'm interested in the thoughts and opinions of DA2 parents.  Are you satisfied with the delivery of what you've seen thus far?  What are your opinions on the DPL schedule?  Other than schedule, are you seeing the DA2 program mirror the DA?  How are the higher club fees being justified to you?  What is the good stuff with DA2 I can relay to my DD for consideration?


For a different perspective from AZ...

In AZ we have a DA team, and ECNL team and DA2. 

I kind of rank them in that order. It is not to say the DA2 team will end up this year being 3rd best in AZ....but being on that team offers something AZ doesn't have. So that ranking is more related to opportunity. It offers 9 games vs So Cal teams that on average should be better vs your typical AZ team. So if my DD was not on a DA or ECNL team I would strongly consider the DA2 team simply because she would be exposed for (9 games) tougher competition vs what we see here. 

Granted in So Cal the soccer situation is VASTLY different vs AZ and as such it may turn out that DA2 is not one of your top 3 opportunities.


----------



## CopaMundial

jpeter said:


> Dpl is a Cal South league, teams can pay $$ & play in the national cup tournament just like they do for all the leagues, CSL, DSL, etc.
> 
> This league is just like the others is far as scouting goes, rarely will you see college coaches at league games unless they coach one of teams playing.
> 
> DA has there own scouting network paid by ussda that evaluation players, teams at least 6x a year.  They will be at the regular league games and showcases. They have no reasons & relationship to look at DPL or other league players.
> 
> The 9 games in the fall part of league is about 6 fewer compared to DA or CSL during that same time frame for example so hopefully more games are scheduled.


So you're telling that college coaches will get everything they need from the DA and won't even bother scouting ECNL showcases or national playoffs? Ha! I've seen some ECNL vs. DA scrimmages lately, and 2 ended in ties and third was a blowout, in favor of ECNL. The 01 and 02 age group talent wise, seems to be spread out. Haven't seen any DPL teams, so can't comment, but I would think scouts are going to have to divide time between DA and ECNL, specifically.


----------



## jpeter

CopaMundial said:


> So you're telling that college coaches will get everything they need from the DA and won't even bother scouting ECNL showcases or national playoffs? Ha! I've seen some ECNL vs. DA scrimmages lately, and 2 ended in ties and third was a blowout, in favor of ECNL. The 01 and 02 age group talent wise, seems to be spread out. Haven't seen any DPL teams, so can't comment, but I would think scouts are going to have to divide time between DA and ECNL, specifically.


Nope you missed understood, ECNL will continue to be a good place for college scouting at the showcases, playoffs, and the occasional league games.

The Cal South leagues like CSL, DSL DPL, etc will be like they have been,  very few scouts at those game unless they happen to have some coaching or other reasons to be there.

The DA scouting that regularly goes on is not for college per say,  youth national team pools and teams is the primary aim. Limited numbers of college personnel do show up at the DA showcase, playoffs, tournaments regularly but not normally at league games.


----------



## bababooey

equipo said:


> My DD missed the cut for a DA2 team earlier this year.  She happily stayed with her F1 team.  Then early July the DA2 team called her back.  And though she guest-played with them, by early July she was getting involved with HS sports.  To join the DA2 team meant she would have to train 3-4 times a week and that type of schedule wouldn't allow her to continue in HS sports.  So she decided to stick with her F1 team and HS sports.  I thought it was the wrong decision but it was her decision and I fully support her.
> 
> So once the DPL schedule posted I took an eager look feeling like my DD would be missing out on this 'exclusive DA type league'.  I was under the impression DA2 would mirror DA.  But the schedules of both leagues tell a different story.  DA schedule runs Sep'17-Jun'18 with 29 games & DPL schedule runs Sep'17-Nov'17 with 9 games.  The DPL schedule mirrors more with what we see in SCDSL and CSL, not the DA.  Maybe more games will be posted for DPL later?  I also see several DA2 teams are in CRL.  But they're middle of the pack and not necessarily having the success I thought a DA2 team would against F1 type teams.  Maybe DA2 rosters are still being worked out?
> 
> The DA2 team gave my DD an invitation to join any time.  So I encouraged her to keep that option open but with all I mention above now I'm not too sure.  I'm interested in the thoughts and opinions of DA2 parents.  Are you satisfied with the delivery of what you've seen thus far?  What are your opinions on the DPL schedule?  Other than schedule, are you seeing the DA2 program mirror the DA?  How are the higher club fees being justified to you?  What is the good stuff with DA2 I can relay to my DD for consideration?


equipo, my dd is on an 03 DA II (or DPL) team. We are with Pateadores and they told us that the players on the DA II team would be able to play HS soccer. This was a big factor in our decision. I am curious what DA II organization your dd is in contact with saying that she cannot play HS sports. There are multiple DA teams that say no HS sports, but the DA II teams are not supposed to be subject to the same restriction on HS sports (from what I understand). I think that is why you see the DA II schedule ending before Thanksgiving, so the players can go off to the HS soccer team when it is time.

9 league games seems low, but it doesn't really matter to me. As for my overall thoughts of DA II, I have no complaints. My dd does not want to train 4x per week and make soccer her full time non-school activity. For certain players and parents, this commitment is just fine. Not for my family. Will that change in time for my dd, maybe, but it will be her decision and not mine.

As for higher fees, I am paying the same total I paid the last two years when my dd played for an OC team that played in SCDSL flight 1.

At the end of the day, your dd should play for a team that she wants to play for, with players she likes, with a coach she likes and she should be one of the players who gets the bulk of the minutes in games. It doesn't matter what league she plays for.


----------



## Mackerel Sam

bababooey said:


> equipo, my dd is on an 03 DA II (or DPL) team. We are with Pateadores and they told us that the players on the DA II team would be able to play HS soccer. This was a big factor in our decision.


Same experience on a different club. My DD is on a DPL team and a number of her teammates are not on the DA team primarily because they want to play HS soccer. I am curious how prevalent that is. Playing HS is a big deal for a lot of girls including my DD. It will be interesting to see what that means for the DPL pool; I don't think it will be as clear cut as "those players who didn't make the DA team".


----------



## RU4REAL

Mackerel Sam said:


> Same experience on a different club. My DD is on a DPL team and a number of her teammates are not on the DA team primarily because they want to play HS soccer. I am curious how prevalent that is. Playing HS is a big deal for a lot of girls including my DD. It will be interesting to see what that means for the DPL pool; I don't think it will be as clear cut as "those players who didn't make the DA team".


Is it that your club doesn't offer ECNL?  I'm in disbelief that your club has better players on a DA2 team than DA1 unless they are 02s or higher.   You have almost no chance of showcasing her in front of colleges in DA2.   ECNL allows for high school and is a proven soccer circuit so why play in a league that has nothing to offer at this point?  Do you really believe that you have time and things will work out for this league to find a place among all the proven leagues?  Your post implies she has the talent to play DA and if the restrictions are not to her liking then ECNL might be a better fit in the long run.


----------



## Soccerreccos

Hindsight is 20/20. DA is not the right fit for my DD for many reasons but DPL is turning out to be a joke. She would have been better off in Flight 1. ECNL not an option within reasonable driving distance.


----------



## soccer661

Mackerel Sam said:


> Same experience on a different club. My DD is on a DPL team and a number of her teammates are not on the DA team primarily because they want to play HS soccer. I am curious how prevalent that is. Playing HS is a big deal for a lot of girls including my DD. It will be interesting to see what that means for the DPL pool; I don't think it will be as clear cut as "those players who didn't make the DA team".


I think playing HS soccer really comes down to the individual kid & the geographic location.
Out in Ventura County-- where Eagles and Real mostly reside-- we lost ECNL-- so DA is what those teams are transitioning right into OR DA2 if your daughter really wants to play HS or was on ECNL composite/2nd team...some really good HS soccer programs (Moorpark, Westlake, Newbury Park, etc) had bunches/mostly ECNL girls on those varsity teams...MOST (if not all the girls we know) are moving to the DA teams within Eagles or Real now since no ECNL...those HS soccer programs will be drastically different this year. A bit sad for the seniors that won't play HS their last year, but I think the thought process was (along with my own senior) that since they were all moving to DA out here-- none of her old teammates/friends would be playing HS either!! And honestly--the DA competition games going all the way into summer will help her be more prepared leading up to going straight into her college program right after...
But again, we are in a different situation in Ventura County..


----------



## bababooey

RU4REAL said:


> Is it that your club doesn't offer ECNL?  I'm in disbelief that your club has better players on a DA2 team than DA1 unless they are 02s or higher.   You have almost no chance of showcasing her in front of colleges in DA2.   ECNL allows for high school and is a proven soccer circuit so why play in a league that has nothing to offer at this point?  Do you really believe that you have time and things will work out for this league to find a place among all the proven leagues?  Your post implies she has the talent to play DA and if the restrictions are not to her liking then ECNL might be a better fit in the long run.


I hear what you are saying about the difference between ECNL and DPL. ECNL is proven and has been the best feeder system for college soccer players. Over the next 5 years, it will be interesting to see if they put as many ECNL players into college soccer with GDA out there.

However, you are missing a crucial point in my eyes. The coaches in GDA versus ECNL. Here in Orange County, the teams that maintained ECNL along with GDA (Blues, Surf, Slammers and West Coast) have moved their best 03 coaches to GDA and now the ECNL teams are coached by lesser coaches. You could say okay, what about Strikers......well, AR is the likely the worst coach I have ever come across face to face. RB at Arsenal is a joke, so that's not an option either. One thing is certain with the GDA.....they hold their coaches to a much higher standard than ECNL.

I have said it before and I still believe this to be true.....DPL is an unnecessary league. It offers nothing different from CSL, Presidio, SDDA or SCDSL. Then add in the fact that it is a closed league and you have strike 2. The majority of the DPL organizations are still in SCDSL, why not have the DPL teams play there?


----------



## Mackerel Sam

RU4REAL said:


> Is it that your club doesn't offer ECNL?


None of the clubs in the DPL offer ECNL. In fact, if you look at the list of ECNL clubs in Southern California (http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/southwest-conference/) you will see that there are several million people in Los Angeles county and north for whom ECNL is not really a viable option.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

RU4REAL said:


> Is it that your club doesn't offer ECNL?  I'm in disbelief that your club has better players on a DA2 team than DA1 unless they are 02s or higher.   You have almost no chance of showcasing her in front of colleges in DA2.   ECNL allows for high school and is a proven soccer circuit so why play in a league that has nothing to offer at this point?  Do you really believe that you have time and things will work out for this league to find a place among all the proven leagues?  Your post implies she has the talent to play DA and if the restrictions are not to her liking then ECNL might be a better fit in the long run.


I completely disagree with your comment that kids have "no chance of showcasing in front of colleges in DA2".   None of the fall leagues will have much of a chance of showcase in front of colleges during league.  That includes DA/ECNL/DPL/CRL/SCDSL/CSL etc.   College soccer is in season and coaches are focused on their own teams right now.  After that clearly ECNL has done a tremendous job at attracting coaches to their showcases.  I expect the same from DA.  Most of their national events are on different dates except for their Spring Showcase.  Also remember that ECNL is no longer in LA or Ventura County.

Regarding DPL/CSL/SCDSL all  of them are competing for entry into showcases such as Players College Showcase, Surf, Silverlakes, and National Cup etc.   Those events are held on dates when the college season is over and also they do not conflict with the DA or ECNL events.  So coaches will be at those events like they have been in the past.  Whether you agree with it or not all DPL teams have been guaranteed entry into Silverlakes and Players Showcase.  While it is not the same opportunity as ECNL, for their girls that want to play high school and live in an area not serviced by ECNL it is still a very good option.


----------



## pewpew

My daughter and I recently went to watch a few games for G03 DA and DPL teams at Silverlakes over the past month or two with the intention of seeing if there was anything to learn. Not impressed to say the least. These are the same girls she's played against in the last year or so. Of course there are standout players and faces you recognize as being skilled players. I was expecting to see some very polished players. Saw two girls from our old club. One who played F2 with us last year and couldn't quite cut it on the F1 team (occasional guest) is now on a DA team. Another who was on the F1 team is now on a DPL team with another club. I think one club is being a little more realistic while the other is trying to fill slots. LA Premier, Legends, WCFC, and a few NorCal teams were but a few of the teams we saw. Some obviously belong there. Some would be better off staying F1 in SCDSL or Premier in CSL without shelling out all that money to say you're on a DA or DPL team. My .02


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## SocalPapa

Mackerel Sam said:


> None of the clubs in the DPL offer ECNL. In fact, if you look at the list of ECNL clubs in Southern California (http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/southwest-conference/) you will see that there are several million people in Los Angeles county and north for whom ECNL is not really a viable option.


You kind of have that backwards.  Understand that DPL is unique to SoCal Girls DA Clubs.  Further, the DA Clubs that are in ECNL didn't join DPL because they already have ECNL.  

Presumably the non-ECNL DA clubs hope their DPL teams will be considered on the same level as ECNL some day, but for now they are on a bit of an island without the structure to compete with ECNL.  The dual DA/ECNL clubs I think recognize that both can have their place.  

I agree with bababooey that DPL seems an unnecessary league.  It only makes sense as a rival to ECNL and right now it's not even a clear rival to SCDSL Champions or CSL Premier.


----------



## GoWest

SocalPapa said:


> ....but for now they are on a bit of an island without the structure to compete with ECNL....


Good point. The national footprint of ECNL will be difficult to compete with as well. DPL is a neat idea for the SW DA teams not members of ECNL. In this inaugural DPL season, the small DPL division has a lot to prove.


----------



## SocalPapa

bababooey said:


> However, you are missing a crucial point in my eyes. The coaches in GDA versus ECNL. Here in Orange County, the teams that maintained ECNL along with GDA (Blues, Surf, Slammers and West Coast) have moved their best 03 coaches to GDA and now the ECNL teams are coached by lesser coaches. You could say okay, what about Strikers......well, AR is the likely the worst coach I have ever come across face to face. RB at Arsenal is a joke, so that's not an option either. One thing is certain with the GDA.....they hold their coaches to a much higher standard than ECNL.


How exactly is GDA holding its coaches to this higher standard?   GDA says its "future goal is for each Academy coach to hold a minimum of a USSF B license".   Each of the Strikers' three ECNL coaches has USSF A licenses and either professional or Division I women's head coaching experience.  West Coast FC's 03 ECNL coach has an A license and was the 2015 Cal South Developmental Girls Older's Coach Of The Year.  (I'm also pretty sure the Baker brothers are coaching both DA and ECNL at Blues.)  I understand that there may be individual coaches people don't like but I'm curious for the basis of the "much higher standard" comment.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

pewpew said:


> My daughter and I recently went to watch a few games for G03 DA and DPL teams at Silverlakes over the past month or two with the intention of seeing if there was anything to learn. Not impressed to say the least. These are the same girls she's played against in the last year or so. Of course there are standout players and faces you recognize as being skilled players. I was expecting to see some very polished players. Saw two girls from our old club. One who played F2 with us last year and couldn't quite cut it on the F1 team (occasional guest) is now on a DA team. Another who was on the F1 team is now on a DPL team with another club. I think one club is being a little more realistic while the other is trying to fill slots. LA Premier, Legends, WCFC, and a few NorCal teams were but a few of the teams we saw. Some obviously belong there. Some would be better off staying F1 in SCDSL or Premier in CSL without shelling out all that money to say you're on a DA or DPL team. My .02


So what team did your DD stay with?  How much do you pay and do you know what they charge?  For us DPL is $2300.   Front what I have seen that is a reasonable price.  On many big clubs you pay more and your in SCDSL or CSL.  If you club does not pay much to their coaches you likely pay less.


----------



## jpeter

SocalPapa said:


> You kind of have that backwards.  Understand that DPL is unique to SoCal Girls DA Clubs.  Further, the DA Clubs that are in ECNL didn't join DPL because they already have ECNL.
> 
> Presumably the non-ECNL DA clubs hope their DPL teams will be considered on the same level as ECNL some day, but for now they are on a bit of an island without the structure to compete with ECNL.  The dual DA/ECNL clubs I think recognize that both can have their place.
> 
> I agree with bababooey that DPL seems an unnecessary league.  It only makes sense as a rival to ECNL and right now it's not even a clear rival to SCDSL Champions or CSL Premier.


Yep feel the same way.

Our daughter is now a junior and wants to continue to play on her HS team.  ECNL is able to accommodate her again but she wanted to check out DA and maybe DPL also.   But skipped the DPL thing because she thought it didn't make any sense even over regular flight 1 or gold/premier teams.

The DPL premise is almost a illusion:

Does DPL expand the GDA pool?
Nope not related or sanctioned by ussda

Does DPL provide a path for a player to make the Jump to DA?
Possible but no more than any any flight 1, Gold, Premier, or other league team does

Does DPL players have a oppourunity to be call up as a ussda DP?
Possible but same as any other Cal South League such as CSL, DSL, Presido, etc.
Player must be regularly training with the DA team, have to sperately register, pay and meet all the requirements, tests, fees, etc.

Does DPL provide for greater exposure to college scouting?
Nope same as any Cal South teams that enter's the college showcase events

Does DPL mimic DA?
Nope only trains 2-3 days a week,  7-9 game fall season, plays at the dissimilar venues, only local teams, on a closed circuit, etc.

She couldn't find or fiqure out any of the advantages of DPL so my player opted not even to take a future look

DA acutally can work with HS play if you get a wavier before hand and club agrees to letting player go during the 3 months. Have to file for reinstatment after HS season is over.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

It's funny how parents of kids not in DA or DPL are the ones that are always posting negative comments here.   This is exactly what happened here back when SCSDL was formed.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion but ultimately if the parent's and kids in DA and DPL are happy with their leagues that is all that matters.


----------



## Overtime

Simisoccerfan said:


> It's funny how parents of kids not in DA or DPL are the ones that are always posting negative comments here.   This is exactly what happened here back when SCSDL was formed.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion but ultimately if the parent's and kids in DA and DPL are happy with their leagues that is all that matters.


For families based in the LA area DPL is the next best choice after DA as ECNL is not a local option.  In the 2003 age group for example there are only a couple of really solid teams in CSL Premier and SCDSL FL 1Champions and neither are in the LA area.   Many of these teams failed to qualify for CRL...losing out to DPL teams.  If ECNL were a local option in LA the conversation would be different and more similar to the OC narrative.


----------



## mirage

Overtime said:


> ......If ECNL were a local option in LA the conversation would be different and more similar to the OC narrative.


Someone had posted a link to the SW list of clubs in an earlier post and I'd looked at it, bit puzzled.

Why is that?  Wasn't RSC once an ECNL club and how about the Eagles in Ventura area? 

I don't know the history or know all the good clubs in LA/Ventura Cos but its odd that there isn't a club with ECNL program.

I get that USClub Soccer wants to limit the number of clubs and spread them across the country but OC appear to have heavy concentration in a very small radius, compared to the rest of the southland.

Just curious....


----------



## equipo

bababooey said:


> equipo, my dd is on an 03 DA II (or DPL) team. We are with Pateadores and they told us that the players on the DA II team would be able to play HS soccer. This was a big factor in our decision. I am curious what DA II organization your dd is in contact with saying that she cannot play HS sports. There are multiple DA teams that say no HS sports, but the DA II teams are not supposed to be subject to the same restriction on HS sports (from what I understand). I think that is why you see the DA II schedule ending before Thanksgiving, so the players can go off to the HS soccer team when it is time.
> 
> 9 league games seems low, but it doesn't really matter to me. As for my overall thoughts of DA II, I have no complaints. My dd does not want to train 4x per week and make soccer her full time non-school activity. For certain players and parents, this commitment is just fine. Not for my family. Will that change in time for my dd, maybe, but it will be her decision and not mine.
> 
> As for higher fees, I am paying the same total I paid the last two years when my dd played for an OC team that played in SCDSL flight 1.
> 
> At the end of the day, your dd should play for a team that she wants to play for, with players she likes, with a coach she likes and she should be one of the players who gets the bulk of the minutes in games. It doesn't matter what league she plays for.



Bababooey, good stuff, thanks for sharing and I appreciate the advice, it is well taken!  The DA2 club that gave my DD an open invitation allows HS sports for their players.  I may have not explained that correctly in my post.  My DD is in HS sports right now and practicing 5x week.  Joining DA2 that trains 3-4x week on top of HS sports 5x week was just too step.  So she chose to pass joining DA2 in favor of HS sports and F1 soccer.  It’s still a steep schedule, but manageable.  Without her knowing, I felt she made the wrong choice and was going to miss out by playing in SCDSL vs DPL.  To be honest I still kind of feel that way because what I see is most, if not all, DA clubs without ECNL are fielding their 2nd teams in DPL not SCDSL.  So that tells me DPL is geared to be more of a competitive league.  But the choice is hers and I’ll always support her choices.  The good news is my DD was asked to guest play with her clubs DA2 in DPL this opening weekend.  So maybe I just need to keep my mouth shut and appreciate that she’s getting to experience a little bit of everything for the moment.  Best of luck to your DD and Pats DA2 this season!


----------



## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> It's funny how parents of kids not in DA or DPL are the ones that are always posting negative comments here.   This is exactly what happened here back when SCSDL was formed.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion but ultimately if the parent's and kids in DA and DPL are happy with their leagues that is all that matters.


I hope you aren't taking criticism of the decision of certain clubs to form DPL as criticism of the families who chose to participate in it.  From what you've described, I'm sure my family would have made the same decision yours did.

I hope you also understand that non-DA/DPL parents have a legitimate interest in what's going on here.  I think the common goal for most of us is that our girls get quality training with similarly-talented girls and the opportunity to regularly play similarly-talented teams.  The more diluted the talent pool gets, the more closed leagues that are formed, the less likely that will happen.  As a casual observer here, it seems the formation of the DPL is more about a battle between ECNL and non-ECNL clubs in SoCal than about truly improving the soccer landscape for girls here.


----------



## Fact

Mackerel Sam said:


> Same experience on a different club. My DD is on a DPL team and a number of her teammates are not on the DA team primarily because they want to play HS soccer. I am curious how prevalent that is. Playing HS is a big deal for a lot of girls including my DD. It will be interesting to see what that means for the DPL pool; I don't think it will be as clear cut as "those players who didn't make the DA team".


My understanding, and I may be  wrong,  but isn't there a DA requirement that a club's top players must play on the DA team?  I wonder how they would enforce that one.


----------



## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> I completely disagree with your comment that kids have "no chance of showcasing in front of colleges in DA2".   None of the fall leagues will have much of a chance of showcase in front of colleges during league.  That includes DA/ECNL/DPL/CRL/SCDSL/CSL etc.   College soccer is in season and coaches are focused on their own teams right now.  After that clearly ECNL has done a tremendous job at attracting coaches to their showcases.  I expect the same from DA.  Most of their national events are on different dates except for their Spring Showcase.  Also remember that ECNL is no longer in LA or Ventura County.
> 
> Regarding DPL/CSL/SCDSL all  of them are competing for entry into showcases such as Players College Showcase, Surf, Silverlakes, and National Cup etc.   Those events are held on dates when the college season is over and also they do not conflict with the DA or ECNL events.  So coaches will be at those events like they have been in the past.  Whether you agree with it or not all DPL teams have been guaranteed entry into Silverlakes and Players Showcase.  While it is not the same opportunity as ECNL, for their girls that want to play high school and live in an area not serviced by ECNL it is still a very good option.


They may be guaranteed entry into the tournaments but not that coaches will show up to watch your games.  Don't count on any coaches if you are not in a top flight.


----------



## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> It's funny how parents of kids not in DA or DPL are the ones that are always posting negative comments here.   This is exactly what happened here back when SCSDL was formed.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion but ultimately if the parent's and kids in DA and DPL are happy with their leagues that is all that matters.


I guess Soccerreccos does not count as a DPL parent that has a negative comment about it?


----------



## gkrent

Fact said:


> My understanding, and I may be  wrong,  but isn't there a DA requirement that a club's top players must play on the DA team?  I wonder how they would enforce that one.


No, there is not.


----------



## MarkM

gkrent said:


> No, there is not.


I'm not claiming that clubs are following the rule, but it does appear to be a requirement.

From the DA application:  "Development Academy clubs will be required to field teams that consist of the top players
from the club's entire player pool. Clubs have the flexibility to register any age combination of players across all 3 age groups, provided they do not exceed 69 full-time players"

https://ussoccer.app.box.com/v/girlsacademyapplication


----------



## soccerobserver

Fact said:


> They may be guctaranteed entry into the tournaments but not that coaches will show up to watch your games.  Don't count on any coaches if you are not in a top flight.


Hello Fact, your statement is simply not true. There are many many many ways to be seen by college coaches. My family has  been through this and I have seen how it works with my own eyes.  When my kids started started this process I was intimidated by blowhard statements like yours which are misleading to the point of being  flagrantly irresponsible.

My DD has played in the top brackets in Surf Cup and Davis Cup and Jefferson Cup and she has played in lower brackets in Vegas and even at Nomads. Colleges come to all of these tournaments if the kids write to the coaches and can demonstrate that they are worth seeing. Also, some D1 schools skip the best brackets to find players who are not yet committed. These are not the Top D1 schools  but they offer the kids D1 experience nonetheless. Then there are the D3 schools which have some of the best students in the country. They go to where the student athletes are and they don't care about the bracket.


----------



## Fact

soccerobserver said:


> Hello Fact, your statement is simply not true. There are many many many ways to be seen by college coaches. My family has  been through this and I have seen how it works with my own eyes.  When my kids started started this process I was intimidated by blowhard statements like yours which are misleading to the point of being  flagrantly irresponsible.
> 
> My DD has played in the top brackets in Surf Cup and Davis Cup and Jefferson Cup and she has played in lower brackets in Vegas and even at Nomads. Colleges come to all of these tournaments if the kids write to the coaches and can demonstrate that they are worth seeing. Also, some D1 schools skip the best brackets to find players who are not yet committed. These are not the Top D1 schools  but they offer the kids D1 experience nonetheless. Then there are the D3 schools which have some of the best students in the country. They go to where the student athletes are and they don't care about the bracket.


My point is that just because they are in a tournament does not guarantee that the coaches will watch their team.   They have to have quality players that initiate contact. If their team sucks no coaches are going to watch unless they have heard about a player.  If you read earlier responses from this poster they think that just because they are on DPL, that they will get looks.  Simply not true.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Fact said:


> They may be guaranteed entry into the tournaments but not that coaches will show up to watch your games.  Don't count on any coaches if you are not in a top flight.


The previous team we were on (different club and that team fell apart this year) was not in the top flight of several showcases we attended and though we did not have the same number of coaches on the sidelines we still had an impressive turnout.  Though being in the top flight is great, you wrong if you think coaches don't attend other games too.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Fact said:


> My point is that just because they are in a tournament does not guarantee that the coaches will watch their team.   They have to have quality players that initiate contact. If their team sucks no coaches are going to watch unless they have heard about a player.  If you read earlier responses from this poster they think that just because they are on DPL, that they will get looks.  Simply not true.


And if you are referring to me, get your "Facts" straight.  No where have I said just because a team is DPL they will get looks.  I said DPL teams are guaranteed entry to several showcases.   The teams still need to have girls worth being seen and they need to do all of the contact work.


----------



## Justafan

Fact said:


> My point is that just because they are in a tournament does not guarantee that the coaches will watch their team.   They have to have quality players that initiate contact. If their team sucks no coaches are going to watch unless they have heard about a player.  If you read earlier responses from this poster they think that just because they are on DPL, that they will get looks.  Simply not true.





soccerobserver said:


> My DD has played in the top brackets in Surf Cup and Davis Cup and Jefferson Cup and she has played in lower brackets in Vegas and even at Nomads. Colleges come to all of these tournaments if the kids write to the coaches and can demonstrate that they are worth seeing. Also, some D1 schools skip the best brackets to find players who are not yet committed. These are not the Top D1 schools  but they offer the kids D1 experience nonetheless. Then there are the D3 schools which have some of the best students in the country. They go to where the student athletes are and they don't care about the bracket.


You guys just said the same thing.


----------



## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> The teams still need to have girls worth being seen and they need to do all of the contact work.


Same thing.


----------



## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> It's funny how parents of kids not in DA or DPL are the ones that are always posting negative comments here.   This is exactly what happened here back when SCSDL was formed.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion but ultimately if the parent's and kids in DA and DPL are happy with their leagues that is all that matters.


I think what people are posting here are their own personal experiences with DPL. Some are positive, like yours, and others are negative.  I agree with you that if it's the right fit for you, then so be it.  However, I think the problem people are having is that you seem to imply  that DPL is a superior league.  See below.



Simisoccerfan said:


> For us DPL is $2300.   Front what I have seen that is a reasonable price.  On many big clubs you pay more and your in SCDSL or CSL.


For the record, I think DPL is unnecessary.  I believe the consolidation of talent (steel sharpening steel) and leagues is better than expansion.  The only advantage of DPL that I see is the automatic entries into showcases.  That does beat having to cross your fingers (for teams on the bubble) and hoping you get in.


----------



## Justafan

Overtime said:


> For families based in the LA area DPL is the next best choice after DA as ECNL is not a local option.  In the 2003 age group for example there are only a couple of really solid teams in CSL Premier and SCDSL FL 1Champions and neither are in the LA area.   Many of these teams failed to qualify for CRL...losing out to DPL teams.  If ECNL were a local option in LA the conversation would be different and more similar to the OC narrative.


What part of LA are you talking about?  The DPL team you chose might be the best option in your case, but it is too great of a generalization to say that the next best option is DPL if ECNL is not available in your area.  There may be better SCDSL flight 1 or CSL teams.  Look at the '03 CRL standings, non DPL teams seem to be doing just fine.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Justafan said:


> I think what people are posting here are their own personal experiences with DPL. Some are positive, like yours, and others are negative.  I agree with you that if it's the right fit for you, then so be it.  However, I think the problem people are having is that you seem to imply  that DPL is a superior league.  See below.
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, I think DPL is unnecessary.  I believe the consolidation of talent (steel sharpening steel) and leagues is better than expansion.  The only advantage of DPL that I see is the automatic entries into showcases.  That does beat having to cross your fingers (for teams on the bubble) and hoping you get in.



My point was that most of the negative posts are not from people with DD playing in DPL.  I did not mean to imply that it was a superior league either.  Just that the cost is similar to CSL and SCDSL when some were implying that the costs were higher.  We still have National Cup and other events outside of league where "steel can sharpen steel".


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Justafan said:


> What part of LA are you talking about?  The DPL team you chose might be the best option in your case, but it is too great of a generalization to say that the next best option is DPL if ECNL is not available in your area.  There may be better SCDSL flight 1 or CSL teams.  Look at the '03 CRL standings, non DPL teams seem to be doing just fine.


He is talking about all of LA and Ventura County.  Let's stay with the 2003 age group.  In SCDSL Champions bracket you have Beach's 3rd team, CZ Elite, Real So Cal Santa Clarita Valley, and Westside Breakers.  That's 4 teams only in LA and none in Ventura County.  In CSL Premier you have Santa Monica and Fram in LA and Simi Valley in Ventura.  These are supposedly the options you would be considering against the DPL teams for Camarillo Eagles, Real So Cal, LA Premier, LA Galaxy, and Beach.  If you are not willing to drive to Orange County and you don't make a DA team, these would be your choices of the teams at the top level.


----------



## Overtime

Overtime said:


> For families based in the LA area DPL is the next best choice after DA as ECNL is not a local option.  In the 2003 age group for example there are only a couple of really solid teams in CSL Premier and SCDSL FL 1Champions and neither are in the LA area.   Many of these teams failed to qualify for CRL...losing out to DPL teams.  If ECNL were a local option in LA the conversation would be different and more similar to the OC narrative.





Simisoccerfan said:


> He is talking about all of LA and Ventura County.  Let's stay with the 2003 age group.  In SCDSL Champions bracket you have Beach's 3rd team, CZ Elite, Real So Cal Santa Clarita Valley, and Westside Breakers.  That's 4 teams only in LA and none in Ventura County.  In CSL Premier you have Santa Monica and Fram in LA and Simi Valley in Ventura.  These are supposedly the options you would be considering against the DPL teams for Camarillo Eagles, Real So Cal, LA Premier, LA Galaxy, and Beach.  If you are not willing to drive to Orange County and you don't make a DA team, these would be your choices of the teams at the top level.


Correct...none of those teams in LA or Ventura are considered to be strong and many of them failed to qualify for CRL against DPL teams.  There are some strong teams in CRL that are not DPL like IE Surf...again none in LA or Ventura.


----------



## Victoria Quinn

RU4REAL said:


> Is it that your club doesn't offer ECNL?  I'm in disbelief that your club has better players on a DA2 team than DA1 unless they are 02s or higher.   You have almost no chance of showcasing her in front of colleges in DA2.   ECNL allows for high school and is a proven soccer circuit so why play in a league that has nothing to offer at this point?  Do you really believe that you have time and things will work out for this league to find a place among all the proven leagues?  Your post implies she has the talent to play DA and if the restrictions are not to her liking then ECNL might be a better fit in the long run.


Disagree that D2/DPL will not be showcased.

My DD DPL, received several letters from College Coaches at Surf Cup this past summer. Silverlakes and Vegas should allow for more opportunity. I guess only time will tell!


----------



## Soccerreccos

Fact said:


> I guess Soccerreccos does not count as a DPL parent that has a negative comment about it?


 my thoughts exactly. Many of the families on the DA team aren't happy either. DA is a very big commitment when your child is not starting and/or *gasp* has other interests outside soccer like, I don't know, school (academics, I mean).   I don't know how these kids can be successful academically when hey are out of the house every night of the week. Most of the families drive at least an hour round trip, so this is three hours per night minimum.


----------



## Desert Hound

Soccerreccos said:


> my thoughts exactly. Many of the families on the DA team aren't happy either. DA is a very big commitment when your child is not starting and/or *gasp* has other interests outside soccer like, I don't know, school (academics, I mean).   I don't know how these kids can be successful academically when hey are out of the house every night of the week. Most of the families drive at least an hour round trip, so this is three hours per night minimum.


I think many of the parents on DA who are not happy didn't do any research before jumping into it. 

If people had read about DA they would have known that there are 4 practices per week. They would have known HS sports and other outside interests will be limited due to the commitment to DA. They would have known that if you are not a starter playing time could be an issue, etc. 

The info was/is out there.


----------



## chargerfan

Desert Hound said:


> I think many of the parents on DA who are not happy didn't do any research before jumping into it.
> 
> If people had read about DA they would have known that there are 4 practices per week. They would have known HS sports and other outside interests will be limited due to the commitment to DA. They would have known that if you are not a starter playing time could be an issue, etc.
> 
> The info was/is out there.


But sometimes things don't sound so bad in theory, but in practice...


----------



## bababooey

Desert Hound said:


> I think many of the parents on DA who are not happy didn't do any research before jumping into it.
> 
> If people had read about DA they would have known that there are 4 practices per week. They would have known HS sports and other outside interests will be limited due to the commitment to DA. They would have known that if you are not a starter playing time could be an issue, etc.
> 
> The info was/is out there.


I think the results of GDA will be very similar to ECNL. The parents of the core players will likely find GDA just fine for their dd. If their dd is not a regular starter, then they will look elsewhere.

I would not be surprised that at the conclusion of this GDA season there is a lot of roster turnover before next season.


----------



## push_up

bababooey said:


> I would not be surprised that at the conclusion of this GDA season there is a lot of roster turnover before next season.


I would not be surprised to find some turnover on the day high school tryouts start.


----------



## LadiesMan217

Soccerreccos said:


> my thoughts exactly. Many of the families on the DA team aren't happy either. DA is a very big commitment when your child is not starting and/or *gasp* has other interests outside soccer like, I don't know, school (academics, I mean).   I don't know how these kids can be successful academically when hey are out of the house every night of the week. Most of the families drive at least an hour round trip, so this is three hours per night minimum.


What club/team has unhappy DA parents?


----------



## chargerfan

LadiesMan217 said:


> What club/team has unhappy DA parents?


Nobody is going to honestly answer this with with all the coaches and board members on this forum.


----------



## Kicker4Life

push_up said:


> I would not be surprised to find some turnover on the day high school tryouts start.


 How so? Please elaborate. Every girl knew they can't play high school soccer going into DA so why would they change their mind  once HS season starts ?


----------



## Nutmeg

chargerfan said:


> Nobody is going to honestly answer this with with all the coaches and board members on this forum.


Soccer parents have two catagories of emotions. Happy or Unhappy.  If you are Happy then just wait until after your next game. And you will then switch places with the unhappy parents.


----------



## LadiesMan217

chargerfan said:


> Nobody is going to honestly answer this with with all the coaches and board members on this forum.


I have heard nothing but positive from many of the non-ECNL DA clubs especially from ex-Blues, Slammers, and West Coast players parents. I think these parents have finally seen what training is rather than the best girls joining a team and the coach watching them scrimmage all practice.


----------



## MarkM

Kicker4Life said:


> How so? Please elaborate. Every girl knew they can't play high school soccer going into DA so why would they change their mind  once HS season starts ?


Every girl that starts high school this fall can play high school soccer.  DA season stops before Thanksgiving and starts again in late January.  You basically won't be able to play DA during February if you play high school soccer in So Cal.  You'll also probably miss the DA winter showcase.  That's the rule for U-15 and up.


----------



## Soccerreccos

Kicker4Life said:


> How so? Please elaborate. Every girl knew they can't play high school soccer going into DA so why would they change their mind  once HS season starts ?


If they are not getting playing time, not enjoying the rigor, regretting the move, then I can see this.


MarkM said:


> Every girl that starts high school this fall can play high school soccer.  DA season stops before Thanksgiving and starts again in late January.  You basically won't be able to play DA during February if you play high school soccer in So Cal.  You'll also probably miss the DA winter showcase.  That's the rule for U-15 and up.


So the DA team would play without the players who chose to play high school for 6-ish games. They will also likely miss DA practices. I don't see that going over well with the DA coaches. Do you?

If the players are at the top end of the DA roster then the team won't want to play without them. If they are at the bottom end, then they risk being cut from the team in favor of a more eager DPL player. I don't see players taking a break from their DA team to play HS   (at least not expecting a welcome return).


----------



## Striker17

High school girls can't play DA. That's not a recommendation


----------



## Striker17

LadiesMan217 said:


> I have heard nothing but positive from many of the non-ECNL DA clubs especially from ex-Blues, Slammers, and West Coast players parents. I think these parents have finally seen what training is rather than the best girls joining a team and the coach watching them scrimmage all practice.


This is where I have also seen the happiest parents - the Legends and other former non ECNL crowd.
I do have to say kudos to them for embracing this. I have been highly impressed with the social media etc it's been very cool


----------



## bababooey

Soccerreccos said:


> If they are not getting playing time, not enjoying the rigor, regretting the move, then I can see this.
> 
> So the DA team would play without the players who chose to play high school for 6-ish games. They will also likely miss DA practices. I don't see that going over well with the DA coaches. Do you?
> 
> If the players are at the top end of the DA roster then the team won't want to play without them. If they are at the bottom end, then they risk being cut from the team in favor of a more eager DPL player. I don't see players taking a break from their DA team to play HS   (at least not expecting a welcome return).


It looks like GDA changed their position on HS soccer. This is from the GDA FAQ link (U.S. Soccer Development Academy):

*The Academy provides the appropriate game to rest ratio and players will not be allowed to play simultaneously in the Academy and in outside competition, e.g. scholastic soccer. The Academy will maintain a 10-month program schedule to provide players with the optimal everyday environment.*

I am not a lawyer, but it appears that HS soccer (i.e scholastic soccer) is no longer allowed.


----------



## younothat

bababooey said:


> It looks like GDA changed their position on HS soccer. This is from the GDA FAQ link (U.S. Soccer Development Academy):
> 
> *The Academy provides the appropriate game to rest ratio and players will not be allowed to play simultaneously in the Academy and in outside competition, e.g. scholastic soccer. The Academy will maintain a 10-month program schedule to provide players with the optimal everyday environment.*
> 
> I am not a lawyer, but it appears that HS soccer (i.e scholastic soccer) is no longer allowed.


That has always been the ussda position however you can get a wavier and apply to play in HS but just not simultaneously.    If granted and your club agrees after HS season is over players apply for reinstatement.  

The leave occurs prior to the start of the HS league and continues until that season is over.


----------



## MarkM

bababooey said:


> It looks like GDA changed their position on HS soccer. This is from the GDA FAQ link (U.S. Soccer Development Academy):
> 
> *The Academy provides the appropriate game to rest ratio and players will not be allowed to play simultaneously in the Academy and in outside competition, e.g. scholastic soccer. The Academy will maintain a 10-month program schedule to provide players with the optimal everyday environment.*
> 
> I am not a lawyer, but it appears that HS soccer (i.e scholastic soccer) is no longer allowed.


"With the permission of their Academy club, the program will initially allow players that have begun high school in 2017-
18 or prior to the start of the Girls’ Development Academy, to complete the remainder of their high school career if they so choose.  If a player chooses to play high school soccer she will not be allowed to play with a Girls’ Development Academy club during *that portion *of the Academy’s 10-month season.  U.S. Soccer expects that clubs manage a player’s desire to
participate in high school soccer on a case by case basis based on what’s best for the development of that player.

Beginning with the 2021-22 season, participation in high school soccer will not be permitted."

https://ussoccer.app.box.com/v/girlsacademyapplication


----------



## Kicking it

MarkM said:


> "With the permission of their Academy club, the program will initially allow players that have begun high school in 2017-
> 18 or prior to the start of the Girls’ Development Academy, to complete the remainder of their high school career if they so choose.  If a player chooses to play high school soccer she will not be allowed to play with a Girls’ Development Academy club during *that portion *of the Academy’s 10-month season.  U.S. Soccer expects that clubs manage a player’s desire to
> participate in high school soccer on a case by case basis based on what’s best for the development of that player.
> 
> Beginning with the 2021-22 season, participation in high school soccer will not be permitted."
> 
> https://ussoccer.app.box.com/v/girlsacademyapplication


I feel like that was a little unclear from the get go. My DD decided not to even tryout for DA because she wants to play in high school and we kept hearing that it would not be allowed if she played DA. Oh well, live and learn!


----------



## Soccerreccos

MarkM said:


> "With the permission of their Academy club, the program will initially allow players that have begun high school in 2017-
> 18 or prior to the start of the Girls’ Development Academy, to complete the remainder of their high school career if they so choose.  If a player chooses to play high school soccer she will not be allowed to play with a Girls’ Development Academy club during *that portion *of the Academy’s 10-month season.  U.S. Soccer expects that clubs manage a player’s desire to
> participate in high school soccer on a case by case basis based on what’s best for the development of that player.
> 
> Beginning with the 2021-22 season, participation in high school soccer will not be permitted."
> 
> https://ussoccer.app.box.com/v/girlsacademyapplication


And you can see the clubs granting this permission?


----------



## Josep

I haven't heard of one DA player even attempting to play HS.  Most don't want it, and the others know it likely wouldn't be wise.


----------



## turftoe9

Victoria Quinn said:


> Disagree that D2/DPL will not be showcased.
> 
> My DD DPL, received several letters from College Coaches at Surf Cup this past summer. Silverlakes and Vegas should allow for more opportunity. I guess only time will tell!


You're DD received letters from college coaches? Is your DD an 03?


----------



## turftoe9

turftoe9 said:


> Your DD received letters from college coaches? Is your DD an 03?


----------



## MarkM

Soccerreccos said:


> And you can see the clubs granting this permission?


Yes, some clubs.  

I'm not sure why it would be so controversial.  Clubs have developmental players in ECNL that play on occasion that may never practice with the team.  Clubs will have developmental players in DA.  In this case, it will just be rostered players that are out of DA for about a month of league games.  Clubs seem to always make accommodations for kids that they want.


----------



## Real Deal

Nutmeg said:


> Soccer parents have two catagories of emotions. Happy or Unhappy.  If you are Happy then just wait until after your next game. And you will then switch places with the unhappy parents.


This is so true


----------



## MakeAPlay

@push_up is an SC Del Sol parent that is on the Arizona Megan's law website beware if you are playing SC Del Sol.


----------



## Nutmeg

MakeAPlay said:


> @push_up is an SC Del Sol parent that is on the Arizona Megan's law website beware if you are playing SC Del Sol.


MAP you are next level. I sometimes think I'm on that level but then you just do some old school mafia type stuff that makes me think I'm close but I really really need to apply myself and one day hopefully  I get there also.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MakeAPlay said:


> @push_up is an SC Del Sol parent that is on the Arizona Megan's law website beware if you are playing SC Del Sol.


Played them this past weekend.  Good thing I was close by and the game was recorded!  Lol


----------



## Fact

Josep said:


> I haven't heard of one DA player even attempting to play HS.  Most don't want it, and the others know it likely wouldn't be wise.


High school soccer does not start til November so obviously you have not seen a girls DA player attempt to play HS.  Boys in DA have found ways around the rule.


----------



## Lambchop

LadiesMan217 said:


> I have heard nothing but positive from many of the non-ECNL DA clubs especially from ex-Blues, Slammers, and West Coast players parents. I think these parents have finally seen what training is rather than the best girls joining a team and the coach watching them scrimmage all practice.


What will also be very interesting is that the fully funded clubs will not hesitate to cut girls at the end of the season, there is a long list of girls who would love to play for free!  What also will be interesting is that next year the 04's  will become the U15 DA teams and the current 03's will move into the U16/17 bracket.  If DA does not become single age specific as the group moves up in age, many of those girls will not make the cut because there will be fewer spots and will be back in ECNL pushing a lot of those current players out.  So everybody enjoy this year, next year will be even more interesting.


----------



## MWN

Lambchop said:


> What will also be very interesting is that the fully funded clubs will not hesitate to cut girls at the end of the season, there is a long list of girls who would love to play for free!  What also will be interesting is that next year the 04's  will become the U15 DA teams and the current 03's will move into the U16/17 bracket.  If DA does not become single age specific as the group moves up in age, many of those girls will not make the cut because there will be fewer spots and will be back in ECNL pushing a lot of those current players out.  So everybody enjoy this year, next year will be even more interesting.


On the boys side when single year DA teams hit the composite age groups, they typically move those players that can play with the older age group up, and then take the younger team and enter them into the top level of whatever league they are associated with (CSL Premiere or SCDSL Flight 1 - Champions) for the off year, some attempted to join Cal South's CRL, but a few of those teams were denied play-in opportunities probably because CRL knew they were only 1 season teams.  I imagine the ECNL will take the team for a year, knowing it will lose that team.


----------



## beachbum

younothat said:


> That has always been the ussda position however you can get a wavier and apply to play in HS but just not simultaneously.    If granted and your club agrees after HS season is over players apply for reinstatement.
> 
> The leave occurs prior to the start of the HS league and continues until that season is over.


https://ussoccer.app.box.com/s/pshiqv8vittgn5z5auffkhazp5ek9eeq


----------



## LadiesMan217

beachbum said:


> https://ussoccer.app.box.com/s/pshiqv8vittgn5z5auffkhazp5ek9eeq


The only part that sux is the fact that minimum USSF B license coaches are not required until 2021. We need to rid the landscape of the pretenders TODAY. I guess they are giving many of the 'top' club coaches the opportunity to go learn the game and become actual soccer coaches rather than kool-aid distributers.


----------



## Kicknit22

Lambchop said:


> What will also be very interesting is that the fully funded clubs will not hesitate to cut girls at the end of the season, there is a long list of girls who would love to play for free!  What also will be interesting is that next year the 04's  will become the U15 DA teams and the current 03's will move into the U16/17 bracket.  If DA does not become single age specific as the group moves up in age, many of those girls will not make the cut because there will be fewer spots and will be back in ECNL pushing a lot of those current players out.  So everybody enjoy this year, next year will be even more interesting.


Next year all DA teams go age specific.  U15,U16,U17,U18.


----------



## Lambchop

Kicknit22 said:


> Next year all DA teams go age specific.  U15,U16,U17,U18.


Really?  Good to know.


----------



## Gokicksomegrass

LadiesMan217 said:


> The only part that sux is the fact that minimum USSF B license coaches are not required until 2021. We need to rid the landscape of the pretenders TODAY. I guess they are giving many of the 'top' club coaches the opportunity to go learn the game and become actual soccer coaches rather than kool-aid distributers.


Developmental saboteurs, especially at the top clubs. Easier to gather advanced players rather than develop them. 
The misleading and tragic place to be is your dd being in the middle to lower of the pack with 3-4 ringers on the team.
False sense of development and overconfidence by the parents. 3-4 times a week of warm ups, passing drills, and scrimmages equals
development. Oh, make sure to watch some pro soccer matches to increase your soccer IQ. Until the club brings in studs who happened to
be developed at the lesser\"not as good as our club" homers would say to replace your dd. By then, it is too late and your dd has nowhere to go.

Not saying all clubs or teams are this way, but be aware of what is going on and do your homework. 
Don't be a low soccer IQ parent. Some clubs rely on this to keep the engine running and collect big paychecks.
Couple things that worked well for my dd. 
Joined training with all boys with rondo, rondo, rondo, and some more rondo. Faster, stronger, and more creative play. 
Joined a small group of highly motivated girls from different clubs and highly motivated (non club) coaches who loves soccer and teaching. 
No freaking looking at the phone ever during teaching. 
Wall work everyday. At school. At home. 10 minutes here. 5 minutes there. Touches add up quickly.
Good luck. Focus on your kid b/c nobody else will.


----------



## Fact

So I noticed that even though some of the DA teams have large rosters, a lot of girls are listed as "Not Rostered" for games leaving less that 15 players per game. I understand that some girls are hurt or have other soccer commitments but it appears to be more missing that the norm. Is this by design to maximize playing time per player to get them fit asap (i.e. U14s are going from 60 minute games last year to 80 minute games) or are that many girls unavailable for games?  Might this actually leave opportunities for DPL players?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Gokicksomegrass said:


> Developmental saboteurs, especially at the top clubs. Easier to gather advanced players rather than develop them.
> The misleading and tragic place to be is your dd being in the middle to lower of the pack with 3-4 ringers on the team.
> False sense of development and overconfidence by the parents. 3-4 times a week of warm ups, passing drills, and scrimmages equals
> development. Oh, make sure to watch some pro soccer matches to increase your soccer IQ. Until the club brings in studs who happened to
> be developed at the lesser\"not as good as our club" homers would say to replace your dd. By then, it is too late and your dd has nowhere to go.
> 
> Not saying all clubs or teams are this way, but be aware of what is going on and do your homework.
> Don't be a low soccer IQ parent. Some clubs rely on this to keep the engine running and collect big paychecks.
> Couple things that worked well for my dd.
> Joined training with all boys with rondo, rondo, rondo, and some more rondo. Faster, stronger, and more creative play.
> Joined a small group of highly motivated girls from different clubs and highly motivated (non club) coaches who loves soccer and teaching.
> No freaking looking at the phone ever during teaching.
> Wall work everyday. At school. At home. 10 minutes here. 5 minutes there. Touches add up quickly.
> Good luck. Focus on your kid b/c nobody else will.


You clearly are the parent of a Uolder player.  You are 100% spot on.  Too many kool aid drinkers.  Not enough thinkers.  Focus on your player and they will benefit and succeed.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Fact said:


> So I noticed that even though some of the DA teams have large rosters, a lot of girls are listed as "Not Rostered" for games leaving less that 15 players per game. I understand that some girls are hurt or have other soccer commitments but it appears to be more missing that the norm. Is this by design to maximize playing time per player to get them fit asap (i.e. U14s are going from 60 minute games last year to 80 minute games) or are that many girls unavailable for games?  Might this actually leave opportunities for DPL players?


DA at the older ages only can make 5 substitutions.  What I have heard is that instead of giving the 17th and 18th girl hope that they will get into that game some teams are only having 16 girls rostered.   DPL players or any others can't be used as a DP until after October 3rd or so.   I also think DP is a long shot.  Maybe a few clubs will use one or two at the most.


----------



## bababooey

Fact said:


> So I noticed that even though some of the DA teams have large rosters, a lot of girls are listed as "Not Rostered" for games leaving less that 15 players per game. I understand that some girls are hurt or have other soccer commitments but it appears to be more missing that the norm. Is this by design to maximize playing time per player to get them fit asap (i.e. U14s are going from 60 minute games last year to 80 minute games) or are that many girls unavailable for games?  Might this actually leave opportunities for DPL players?


Might it have something to do with the substitution rules? I don't know how many subs per age group, but if they are following international rules, there will be a maximum of 3 subs per game. Thus, you don't need a roster larger than 14-15 per game day. Once a player is subbed and done for the game must be a dose of cold water for some parents.

As for the DPL player opportunities, with a few of the game reports I have seen, it looks like the coaches are giving the younger age group DA players a chance to play up versus pulling from the DPL team(s). I am speaking specifically of the 03 game reports. I have not reviewed the older age groups.


----------



## bababooey

MakeAPlay said:


> You clearly are the parent of a Uolder player.  You are 100% spot on.  Too many kool aid drinkers.  Not enough thinkers.  Focus on your player and they will benefit and succeed.


So you're telling me the herd mentality is not wise for my player??? (sarcasm)


----------



## younothat

bababooey said:


> Might it have something to do with the substitution rules? I don't know how many subs per age group, but if they are following international rules, there will be a maximum of 3 subs per game. Thus, you don't need a roster larger than 14-15 per game day. Once a player is subbed and done for the game must be a dose of cold water for some parents.
> 
> As for the DPL player opportunities, with a few of the game reports I have seen, it looks like the coaches are giving the younger age group DA players a chance to play up versus pulling from the DPL team(s). I am speaking specifically of the 03 game reports. I have not reviewed the older age groups.


For DA @  U15+ 5 subs across three "moment's” so only 16 can play each game even if you roster the max 18 game day.

U13&U14 7 Subs, across three "moment's”

Both my kids know several girls planing on playing HS in addition to DA this year.


----------



## SoccerLife75

Simisoccerfan said:


> DA at the older ages only can make 5 substitutions.  What I have heard is that instead of giving the 17th and 18th girl hope that they will get into that game some teams are only having 16 girls rostered.   DPL players or any others can't be used as a DP until after October 3rd or so.   I also think DP is a long shot.  Maybe a few clubs will use one or two at the most.



DPL Rosters are also very low from what I have seen on multiple DPL teams.  I think the reason DPL girls will not be used for DA,  is that the small roster DPL teams will be done without 2-3 girls if they are moved up to DA.  It would be nice if they could play Saturday with DPL and Sunday with DA, but with all the rules I doubt that is allowed.


----------



## MakeAPlay

And it begins...


----------



## Simisoccerfan

bababooey said:


> Might it have something to do with the substitution rules? I don't know how many subs per age group, but if they are following international rules, there will be a maximum of 3 subs per game. Thus, you don't need a roster larger than 14-15 per game day. Once a player is subbed and done for the game must be a dose of cold water for some parents.
> 
> As for the DPL player opportunities, with a few of the game reports I have seen, it looks like the coaches are giving the younger age group DA players a chance to play up versus pulling from the DPL team(s). I am speaking specifically of the 03 game reports. I have not reviewed the older age groups.


A player cannot be added as a DP until after October 3rd.   So no DPL or other players could have been pulled up yet.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

SoccerLife75 said:


> DPL Rosters are also very low from what I have seen on multiple DPL teams.  I think the reason DPL girls will not be used for DA,  is that the small roster DPL teams will be done without 2-3 girls if they are moved up to DA.  It would be nice if they could play Saturday with DPL and Sunday with DA, but with all the rules I doubt that is allowed.


DA won't care about what it does to the DPL roster.  Also they can't be pulled up until after 10/3 which is more than half way through the DPL season.   Then DP's can only play in 6 games.  The rules don't mention anything about playing a DA game as a DP then playing the next day or week with their normal team so I think that would be allowed.  I really don't think it will be used much at all.  Unless a team is hit with injuries and needs to pull up a player to fill a void or if they simply have not had the time to truly evaluate a player and the DPL player is actually better than the depth chart on the DA for their position it won't happen.  The rules also say a player should not be used as a DP unless they will get playing time.

https://ussoccer.app.box.com/s/q7yzwj6a5m86gensd1g3itbs1yyb2rhf


----------



## genesis

DA III...then you can say your kid plays


----------



## Fact

younothat said:


> For DA @  U15+ 5 subs across three "moment's” so only 16 can play each game even if you roster the max 18 game day.
> 
> U13&U14 7 Subs, across three "moment's”
> 
> Both my kids know several girls planing on playing HS in addition to DA this year.


From the looks of the game reports, it looks like the U14s are not even fostering their 11+7subs.  And at all ages subs look like they are only being used after a game is under control.  For example the U15 Surf v Albion game used very few subs probably since the game was  close, both teams kept their best players in.  Can we throw out the "D" in DA now. As has always been the case, most coaches care about wins not development.


----------



## Fact

genesis said:


> DA III...then you can say your kid plays


Well they say third time's a charm.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Fact said:


> From the looks of the game reports, it looks like the U14s are not even fostering their 11+7subs.  And at all ages subs look like they are only being used after a game is under control.  For example the U15 Surf v Albion game used very few subs probably since the game was  close, both teams kept their best players in.  Can we throw out the "D" in DA now. As has always been the case, most coaches care about wins not development.


Give your agenda a rest.  The season just started and teams have only played 1 or 2 games.   The sub rules are different in this league.  Once you sub a player out they are done for the game.  In this scenario it is hard to imagine you will see much subbing in the first half of the game unless there is an injury.  In fact, subs will likely be limited and see limited time in any game.  A better indicator will be are they rotating starting players.   So after 5-10 games look to see if all girls are getting multiple starts more than the minimum 25%.  If it is the same 11 every week and with the remainder getting the 25% minimum that will tell the tale.


----------



## Striker17

Simisoccerfan said:


> Give your agenda a rest.  The season just started and teams have only played 1 or 2 games.   The sub rules are different in this league.  Once you sub a player out they are done for the game.  In this scenario it is hard to imagine you will see much subbing in the first half of the game unless there is an injury.  In fact, subs will likely be limited and see limited time in any game.  A better indicator will be are they rotating starting players.   So after 5-10 games look to see if all girls are getting multiple starts more than the minimum 25%.  If it is the same 11 every week and with the remainder getting the 25% minimum that will tell the tale.


It's clear people don't know these teams and why people were sitting vs not. It also doesn't say positions. I agree with your post wholeheartedly. 
Too early yet. It's chess not checkers


----------



## glen_dandy

Kicknit22 said:


> Next year all DA teams go age specific.  U15,U16,U17,U18.


Any chance you have a concrete source for this, Kicknit22?  I've been wondering about this and would love to have it confirmed.


----------



## Lambchop

MWN said:


> On the boys side when single year DA teams hit the composite age groups, they typically move those players that can play with the older age group up, and then take the younger team and enter them into the top level of whatever league they are associated with (CSL Premiere or SCDSL Flight 1 - Champions) for the off year, some attempted to join Cal South's CRL, but a few of those teams were denied play-in opportunities probably because CRL knew they were only 1 season teams.  I imagine the ECNL will take the team for a year, knowing it will lose that team.


So, maybe there will be an ECNL 1 team and an ECNL 2 team.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Fact said:


> From the looks of the game reports, it looks like the U14s are not even fostering their 11+7subs.  And at all ages subs look like they are only being used after a game is under control.  For example the U15 Surf v Albion game used very few subs probably since the game was  close, both teams kept their best players in.  Can we throw out the "D" in DA now. As has always been the case, most coaches care about wins not development.


So you got all this from reading the match reports.  Damn your good


----------



## Kicker4Life

Lambchop said:


> So, maybe there will be an ECNL 1 team and an ECNL 2 team.


There already is a few ECNL 2 teams!


----------



## Kicker4Life

I'm being honest...

http://scdslsoccer.com/_element_display/#/73496/teams/87694651/88277691-87694769/TEAM.html?dummy=1505267270029


----------



## Kicknit22

glen_dandy said:


> Any chance you have a concrete source for this, Kicknit22?  I've been wondering about this and would love to have it confirmed.


Its a fact.  I not only heard it in discussion with DA staff, but I'm pretty certain it's been written about as well.  I heard it straight from US Soccer Technicla Advisor as too.  So, I feel pretty confident about it.


----------



## Mystery Train

It took me a while, but I did find an actual link that shows DPL game results.  It's pretty well buried and I only found it by clicking on a link found on a blog.  Anyway, they have results and standings, but not rosters, which I was more interested in.  I wonder if it is a hindrance to college recruiting that these teams are playing in a closed circuit without any database of who is on the teams?   http://dpleague.org/#


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Mystery Train said:


> It took me a while, but I did find an actual link that shows DPL game results.  It's pretty well buried and I only found it by clicking on a link found on a blog.  Anyway, they have results and standings, but not rosters, which I was more interested in.  I wonder if it is a hindrance to college recruiting that these teams are playing in a closed circuit without any database of who is on the teams?   http://dpleague.org/#


Doesn't matter.  No coaches are coming out to league games anyway especially during the college season.  Eventually as these teams play tournaments their rosters will be on Got Soccer.


----------



## younothat

Kicknit22 said:


> Its a fact.  I not only heard it in discussion with DA staff, but I'm pretty certain it's been written about as well.  I heard it straight from US Soccer Technicla Advisor as too.  So, I feel pretty confident about it.


Yes heard similar info,  the application's for next season 18-19' are coming out soon,maybe next week and they will have the final info.    

The only twist for the boys I heard that was being considered was composite U18/19 only.   The current U18/19 is for and 00's & 99's so if U18 is the last AG in 18-19' those 00's won't have a AG to play in since U18 is 2001's for 18-19.


----------



## Mystery Train

Simisoccerfan said:


> Doesn't matter.  No coaches are coming out to league games anyway especially during the college season.  Eventually as these teams play tournaments their rosters will be on Got Soccer.


Eventually, yes.  But that's a ways off.  I've been trying to track down a couple of really good players who I saw play last year on other teams and I suspect they're on DPL teams because I can't find them on any ECNL, DA, SCDSL, or CSL teams, but I don't know because there are no rosters posted anywhere.  Seems like a simple enough thing to have a roster posted.  If I were a parent of a kid on a DPL team, I'd want that info out there and available to see.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> Doesn't matter.  No coaches are coming out to league games anyway especially during the college season.  Eventually as these teams play tournaments their rosters will be on Got Soccer.


I have seen local coaches come out during the fall.  Especially if they only have one game that weekend.  My player's coaching staff came to several league games before and after she committed.  Coaches want to see a player in their normal team environment.  A ton can be learned about the player, her interactions with her teammates, coaches and you can glean info on the parents.  National rankings are nice but any good coach likes to see if a player passes the eye test.  That's how you find diamonds!!


----------



## outside!

Mystery Train said:


> Eventually, yes.  But that's a ways off.  I've been trying to track down a couple of really good players who I saw play last year on other teams and I suspect they're on DPL teams because I can't find them on any ECNL, DA, SCDSL, or CSL teams, but I don't know because there are no rosters posted anywhere.  Seems like a simple enough thing to have a roster posted.  If I were a parent of a kid on a DPL team, I'd want that info out there and available to see.


The game reports have rosters.
http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standings/ss/view_game_report.php?eventId=4143168&teamId=3929963


----------



## MakeAPlay

outside! said:


> The game reports have rosters.
> http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standings/ss/view_game_report.php?eventId=4143168&teamId=3929963


It looks like they played 6 subs.  That is pretty good for a no reentry game.  Not much different than in any other high level competitive game.  Jeff's a good coach though.


----------



## SocalPapa

outside! said:


> The game reports have rosters.
> http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standings/ss/view_game_report.php?eventId=4143168&teamId=3929963


@Mystery Train was referring to DPL, not DA.  DPL hasn't published their rosters.


----------



## Mystery Train

outside! said:


> The game reports have rosters.
> http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standings/ss/view_game_report.php?eventId=4143168&teamId=3929963


The DA teams have rosters (some teams didn't post them until the first weekend), but seems odd that DPL teams (which are the DA II teams) don't.  



SocalPapa said:


> @Mystery Train was referring to DPL, not DA.  DPL hasn't published their rosters.


Yep.  
ECNL, ECNL 2, EGSL, DA, DAII, DPL . . .
 As if club soccer needed more confusion.


----------



## SocalPapa

Perhaps the hidden rosters/closed circuit is the only way DPL clubs can keep up their pretense that DPL is on par with ECNL.
[/QUOTE]


----------



## bababooey

The DA Game Reports are really cool. I love how they list the roster (FT versus DP; rostered versus non-rostered; starter versus reserve), the substitution times and the positions (not all teams list the player positions). I do have a question for the forum......when a player receives a yellow card, it lists a code for the offense. Where do you get the legend to those infractions? Here is a link to a game report with a yellow card listed: http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standings/ss/view_game_report.php?eventId=4143765&teamId=4005180

As for the DPL teams/rosters....the DPL website is quite poor (dpleague.org) and has very little information. There are no rosters or game reports, but it looks like the same website service company (not sure what to call them), Bonzi handles the DA and DPL sites. The other item I would like from the DPL site is the coaching staff. Just curious how other organizations are handling their DA/DPL rosters. As an example, Pats 03 DA/DPL teams are both head coached by DR. Just curious if other DA organizations are using the same structure.


----------



## Striker17

As with most things in life there are always exceptions. 04 there is little to no difference. 03 I would assume there is and the ECNL teams will remain competitive. 01 and 02 the Bakers have made sure that ECNL is King over and DPL and arguably a DA who knows. We are beating a dead horse- two years before any full shake out noted and by that time who know what additiobal surprises their will be.


----------



## bababooey

SocalPapa said:


> Perhaps the hidden rosters/closed circuit is the only way DPL clubs can keep up their pretense that DPL is on par with ECNL.
> View attachment 1432


[/QUOTE]

I think it would be cool if here in So Cal, the DPL teams played the ECNL teams. I think the ECNL teams would be stronger top to bottom, but without playing it out on the field, it's all conjecture.


----------



## Lambchop

bababooey said:


> The DA Game Reports are really cool. I love how they list the roster (FT versus DP; rostered versus non-rostered; starter versus reserve), the substitution times and the positions (not all teams list the player positions). I do have a question for the forum......when a player receives a yellow card, it lists a code for the offense. Where do you get the legend to those infractions? Here is a link to a game report with a yellow card listed: http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standings/ss/view_game_report.php?eventId=4143765&teamId=4005180
> 
> As for the DPL teams/rosters....the DPL website is quite poor (dpleague.org) and has very little information. There are no rosters or game reports, but it looks like the same website service company (not sure what to call them), Bonzi handles the DA and DPL sites. The other item I would like from the DPL site is the coaching staff. Just curious how other organizations are handling their DA/DPL rosters. As an example, Pats 03 DA/DPL teams are both head coached by DR. Just curious if other DA organizations are using the same structure.


It is really interesting to see which DA clubs are consistent in receiving a yellow cards even at this early stage.  No surprises there.


----------



## Mystery Train

bababooey said:


> The DA Game Reports are really cool. I love how they list the roster (FT versus DP; rostered versus non-rostered; starter versus reserve), the substitution times and the positions (not all teams list the player positions). I do have a question for the forum......when a player receives a yellow card, it lists a code for the offense. Where do you get the legend to those infractions? Here is a link to a game report with a yellow card listed: http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standings/ss/view_game_report.php?eventId=4143765&teamId=4005180.


UB is for Unsporting Behavior.  
https://www.ussoccer.com/~/media/files/referees/2016/160425_cautionable_and_sending_off_offenses.pdf?la=en
https://www.ussoccer.com/~/media/files/referees/2016/160425_cautionable_and_sending_off_offenses.pdf?la=en


----------



## Mystery Train

SocalPapa said:


> Perhaps the hidden rosters/closed circuit is the only way DPL clubs can keep up their pretense that DPL is on par with ECNL.
> View attachment 1432


Wow.  That graphic is . . . uh, "aspirational," as my CEO would say.


----------



## SoccerLife75

Simisoccerfan said:


> Doesn't matter.  No coaches are coming out to league games anyway especially during the college season.  Eventually as these teams play tournaments their rosters will be on Got Soccer.



I think  these teams are not playing tournaments, most are being forced to do SilverLakes Showcases and National Cup.  I think Vegas Players Cup might be the only real tournament they enter.


----------



## SocalPapa

Striker17 said:


> We are beating a dead horse- two years before any full shake out noted and by that time who know what additiobal surprises their will be.


I agree that time will tell, but the issue is that these DPL clubs (at least some of them) aren't waiting for time to tell.  They are already claiming parity with ECNL.  To make such a boast for a newly-formed local league obviously draws scrutiny.  And the fact that they've hidden their rosters only draws more suspicion.  Heck, even CSL bronze teams publish their rosters.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

SocalPapa said:


> I agree that time will tell, but the issue is that these DPL clubs (at least some of them) aren't waiting for time to tell.  They are already claiming parity with ECNL.  To make such a boast for a newly-formed local league obviously draws scrutiny.  And the fact that they've hidden their rosters only draws more suspicion.  Heck, even CSL bronze teams publish their rosters.


Its a new league.  Give them a break.  You are reading too much into things.  My viewpoint is that for some DA programs, ECNL is their second team (maybe not the case for the Blues).  For those without ECNL it is DPL.  Maybe this was what LA Premier meant when they developed a diagram (why don't you seek them at and ask them?).  Until all of these teams play a lot more games including against each other there is no way to know which second team program is better locally.  Clearly the established ECNL clubs without DA are far superior to DPL and likely at least on par with DA for now.   And I don't believe there is any intention to hide rosters.  Probably more a function that it is a brand new league with limited resources and they just have not gotten to that level of detail yet.


----------



## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> Its a new league.  Give them a break.  You are reading too much into things.  My viewpoint is that for some DA programs, ECNL is their second team (maybe not the case for the Blues).  For those without ECNL it is DPL.  Maybe this was what LA Premier meant when they developed a diagram (why don't you seek them at and ask them?).  Until all of these teams play a lot more games including against each other there is no way to know which second team program is better locally.  Clearly the established ECNL clubs without DA are far superior to DPL and likely at least on par with DA for now.   And I don't believe there is any intention to hide rosters.  Probably more a function that it is a brand new league with limited resources and they just have not gotten to that level of detail yet.


I may very well be reading too much into it, but I highly doubt that the real issue is those 10 major clubs simply lacked the financial and administrative wherewithal to post team rosters to a website.  Further, by my count there are 69 ECNL-only clubs nationwide and only 10 that are dual DA-ECNL.  So if LA Premier's intent was to convey that ECNL teams are generally B teams then that would be even more misleading.


----------



## Lambchop

Simisoccerfan said:


> Its a new league.  Give them a break.  You are reading too much into things.  My viewpoint is that for some DA programs, ECNL is their second team (maybe not the case for the Blues).  For those without ECNL it is DPL.  Maybe this was what LA Premier meant when they developed a diagram (why don't you seek them at and ask them?).  Until all of these teams play a lot more games including against each other there is no way to know which second team program is better locally.  Clearly the established ECNL clubs without DA are far superior to DPL and likely at least on par with DA for now.   And I don't believe there is any intention to hide rosters.  Probably more a function that it is a brand new league with limited resources and they just have not gotten to that level of detail yet.


Not all ECNL Clubs across the country were at the same level, therefore not all ECNL only clubs are on par with the DA  teams and/or DA/ECNL current clubs.


----------



## bababooey

I agree with Simisoccerfan about the lack of rosters on the DPL site. I think there are a couple of factors at work. First, new league and probably limited resources to the league and website. Second, it seems like many of the clubs wait until the last minute to publish their rosters (and some not at all - SCDSL).

Leading up to the start of the season, there were many DA and ECNL rosters that were non-existent or partially completed. Both ECNL and US Soccer mandate that the rosters be published at some given date, with DPL, who is the authority to mandate these things?


----------



## Fact

Kicker4Life said:


> So you got all this from reading the match reports.  Damn your good


Actually the game reports are great.  You can see which players where rostered, who started, how long each player played, when the were subbed in and out and when goals were score.  Pretty simple actually, does not take a rocket science degree.


----------



## SocalPapa

bababooey said:


> I agree with Simisoccerfan about the lack of rosters on the DPL site. I think there are a couple of factors at work. First, new league and probably limited resources to the league and website. Second, it seems like many of the clubs wait until the last minute to publish their rosters (and some not at all - SCDSL).
> 
> Leading up to the start of the season, there were many DA and ECNL rosters that were non-existent or partially completed. Both ECNL and US Soccer mandate that the rosters be published at some given date, with DPL, who is the authority to mandate these things?


Though "Founded on the ideology of the full DA program" DPL is actually sanctioned by USYSoccer (CalSouth) and I'm not aware they have any such mandate.  In any event, are you saying this is just a glitch and the DPL rosters will actually be up in a few days or what?


----------



## jpeter

SocalPapa said:


> Though "Founded on the ideology of the full DA program" DPL is actually sanctioned by USYSoccer (CalSouth) and I'm not aware they have any such mandate.  In any event, are you saying this is just a glitch and the DPL rosters will actually be up in a few days or what?


The DPL roster and game reports are not turned on for public/open access.   It's all there and the bonzi system can show it all if they wanted to, it's not a glitch rather a choice to hide the info.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Fact said:


> Actually the game reports are great.  You can see which players where rostered, who started, how long each player played, when the were subbed in and out and when goals were score.  Pretty simple actually, does not take a rocket science degree.


Do they tell you who has been working hard and performing well in practice?  Do they tell you who is coming off injury and needs their minutes managed?  Do they tell you which girls are being brought on while making changes to the formation?  Do they tell you how girls are being moved into new positions to see how they react in game?  NO

 It is obvious you have Zero idea what the coaches are doing or thinking, the state of the game, conditions at game time, and health or conditioning of the girls subbed in or out, when making the subs.  Yet you look at a snapshot on paper as a basis for a pretty ignorant comment (throwbout the "D" in DA, etc).

Well done!


----------



## bababooey

Kicker4Life said:


> Do they tell you who has been working hard and performing well in practice?  Do they tell you who is coming off injury and needs their minutes managed?  Do they tell you which girls are being brought on while making changes to the formation?  Do they tell you how girls are being moved into new positions to see how they react in game?  NO
> 
> It is obvious you have Zero idea what the coaches are doing or thinking, the state of the game, conditions at game time, and health or conditioning of the girls subbed in or out, when making the subs.  Yet you look at a snapshot on paper as a basis for a pretty ignorant comment (throwbout the "D" in DA, etc).
> 
> Well done!


Kicker4Life........well, you didn't hold back. Bravo sir!


----------



## Victoria Quinn

turftoe9 said:


> You're DD received letters from college coaches? Is your DD an 03?


No my DD is an 02.


----------



## splinter

Fact said:


> Actually the game reports are great.  You can see which players where rostered, who started, how long each player played, when the were subbed in and out and when goals were score.  Pretty simple actually, does not take a rocket science degree.


Just an FYI....I have already seen game reports that are wrong.  Players listed playing the entire game but coming out in the 50 th minute as well as players listed playing only 10 min but getting 30.


----------



## Kicker4Life

splinter said:


> Just an FYI....I have already seen game reports that are wrong.  Players listed playing the entire game but coming out in the 50 th minute as well as players listed playing only 10 min but getting 30.


I've also seen goals credited to the wrong players.....


----------



## Fact

splinter said:


> Just an FYI....I have already seen game reports that are wrong.  Players listed playing the entire game but coming out in the 50 th minute as well as players listed playing only 10 min but getting 30.


I would hope they fix this asap as aren't teams penalized if they don't follow the rules.  For example, each player has to start 25% of the time. I would assume that the easiest way for USsoccer to audit teams to make sure they are compliant is to look at the game reports and if they are wrong that is not good.

For the teams that I have been following, coaches have been starting their 12-18th players in the games they believe are easier.  The parents that I have been speaking too are not all that happy when their starter has to travel far and sit on the bench most of the time to allow what they perceive as a "lesser" player getting their required time in.  They would rather have the coach tell them to stay home.  Despite having played ECNL with the same coaches, they looks at DA much differently.  Not sure why when especially given that they have only played a few games other than that during the summer tournaments, the best players played a lot more and started.


----------



## Justafan

SocalPapa said:


> Perhaps the hidden rosters/closed circuit is the only way DPL clubs can keep up their pretense that DPL is on par with ECNL.
> View attachment 1432


[/QUOTE]

I know the conversation started with DPL v. ECNL, but subconsciously the propaganda is already working.  After this post everybody here is talking about which one of those 2 leagues is superior, as if it is now assumed that both of those are superior to SCDSL Flight 1 or CSL Gold. 

STOP IT!

Speaking specifically for the 04 age group, and quite likely the 03's (and 05's next year), the top teams from all the non-DA leagues are very evenly matched.  Which league has the most depth, it's still to be determined, but L.A. Premiere has some balls putting DPL over SCDSL flight 1 and CSL Gold.  Their 04 DPL team is marginally a Silver/Flight 2 team.  No, I haven't seen them play, but their results at the summer showcase and league tell me that. 

Sorry for the rant, but I'm not going to sit idly by and let the narrative (ECNL v. DPL) be repeated so often that we then assume they are both better than Flight 1 and Gold.  With respect to individual teams, they are not.  With respect to exposure to college recruiters, that's a whole different topic.  

Although on that front I will say this, and this may be more relevant to the 05 group, if you have a very good team (flight 1, gold, silver elite) and you stick together (I know it's hard to do in SoCal), your team will be on par with many ECNL and DPL teams (and actually some DA teams).  Why is this important? It's important because if the goal is college exposure, you will be invited to play in the top flight of important showcases and tournaments.  

DA teams will have their own showcases and so these showcases and tournaments need the next best teams.  You'll get to play ECNL teams and have college exposure without having to uproot to go to a DA team (or ECNL or DPL for that matter).  Look at the 03 SDSC Navy team.  They are arguably the top non-DA team (and I'm sure they can give a few of them a run for their money) and they will be a coveted team for any non-DA showcase or tournament. I don't think they will have any problem attracting college coaches.  Coaches will soon figure out that even DA (13 teams) is watered down from last year's ECNL (8 teams).


----------



## Mystery Train

Justafan said:


> if you have a very good team (flight 1, gold, silver elite) and you stick together (I know it's hard to do in SoCal), your team will be on par with many ECNL and DPL teams (and actually some DA teams).


I have seen this play out dramatically in the 02 age group.  That age group has had to endure the most turmoil at the most critical point in gaining college exposure. From the age group change as they went into the U15 season, to the DA & DPL leagues being established, which on top of the usual off-season free agency craziness, means that almost no teams in the top 50 in SoCal stayed intact from U14 to U16.    A couple that did in Flight 1 and CSL Gold (mixes of '03 and '02's that 'played up' in U14) look like well oiled machines in games.  I've watched some of the DA teams play this summer and a few ECNL teams whose rosters have been shuffled because of the DA, and though they still have top notch athletes, the games are pretty ragged compared to what I saw in years past at the same age groups.  Every year there is movement on all teams, but some of the rosters are almost unrecognizable and it does affect quality of play, even if you have great players.


----------



## Justafan

And just to top off my rant, what we are blessed with here in SoCal is tremendous depth.  If you took our top 50 teams in any age group and put them against any other state's top 50, I think our worst record would be 35-15.  We would go 50-0 against many states and only suffer single digit losses against most.  SoCal team number 35 would be a top 5-10 team almost anywhere else.  On a scale of elite, excellent, very good, good, average, . . .we have a ton of very good.  That's where we crush the competition.  

On average, you probably have about 5 elite teams, followed by about 10 excellent teams, then about 30 very good teams.  The difference within each group is minimal imo.  At least in the 04 age group, I believe ECNL, Flight 1, DPL, and CSL gold are filled with mostly very good teams (maybe a couple of excellent teams). Thus, the difference between the top teams in these leagues is minimal imo.


----------



## ADPSOCCER

SocalPapa said:


> Perhaps the hidden rosters/closed circuit is the only way DPL clubs can keep up their pretense that DPL is on par with ECNL.
> View attachment 1432


[/QUOTE]

*WOW!*

To be clear, the pyramid explains "INDIVIDUAL PLAYER PATHWAYS" @ LA Premier. And is used to educate parents on the levels a player may be placed into if they have interest in the LA Premier Program. Nothing to do with any other club or a statement on other league levels. However, LA Premier believes DA will be the highest level of play in the country.

Here is the verbiage that accompanies the pyramid... pretty simple stuff.

*"These pyramids represent an insight into how our DA staff process initial requests to join our Academy structure and are designed to be a guideline to the selection process and not a rule. 

Exceptions are made for players that possess a Defining Quality that the coach believes the squad is in need of, at any specific age group. More information can be sought by discussing your child directly with a member of our LA Premier Academy Staff. "*

LA Premier doesn't have ECNL, some clubs have both DA and ECNL.

EACH Clubs pyramid may be different...

There are a few more graphics on the same page, with more information that clearly defines ECNL as a prominent National League.
http://www.lapremierfc.com/football/girlsacademy


----------



## SocalPapa

ADPSOCCER said:


> *WOW!*
> 
> To be clear, the pyramid explains "INDIVIDUAL PLAYER PATHWAYS" @ LA Premier. And is used to educate parents on the levels a player may be placed into if they have interest in the LA Premier Program. Nothing to do with any other club or a statement on other league levels. However, LA Premier believes DA will be the highest level of play in the country.
> 
> Here is the verbiage that accompanies the pyramid... pretty simple stuff.
> 
> *"These pyramids represent an insight into how our DA staff process initial requests to join our Academy structure and are designed to be a guideline to the selection process and not a rule.
> 
> Exceptions are made for players that possess a Defining Quality that the coach believes the squad is in need of, at any specific age group. More information can be sought by discussing your child directly with a member of our LA Premier Academy Staff. "*
> 
> LA Premier doesn't have ECNL, some clubs have both DA and ECNL.
> 
> EACH Clubs pyramid may be different...
> 
> There are a few more graphics on the same page, with more information that clearly defines ECNL as a prominent National League.
> http://www.lapremierfc.com/football/girlsacademy


Hey everybody, sorry for posting a graphic directly from the LA Premier website showing DPL and ECNL on the same level of a talent pyramid.  It turns out DPL wouldn't for a minute want us to believe that their teams/players are on par with ECNL.  It's entirely our fault for believing they could possibly be trying to communicate something like that with this image.

I further apologize for jumping to the irrational conclusion that a graphic entitled "LA Premier FC Pyramid vs Non DA Clubs" could in any way be interpreted as a statement or commentary on other clubs or leagues.


----------



## Nutmeg

Spend more time on soccer and less time on graphics of soccer pyramids and trolling soccer forums.


----------



## Mackerel Sam

ADPSOCCER said:


> Here is the verbiage that accompanies the pyramid... pretty simple stuff.
> 
> *"These pyramids represent an insight into how our DA staff process initial requests to join our Academy structure and are designed to be a guideline to the selection process and not a rule.
> 
> Exceptions are made for players that possess a Defining Quality that the coach believes the squad is in need of, at any specific age group. More information can be sought by discussing your child directly with a member of our LA Premier Academy Staff. "*


Are you implying you expect people to read complete sentences instead of just looking at a picture? Not just any sentences too, but ones so long that they can't be tweeted or texted. Ridiculous.


----------



## Kevin Redding

Any idea how far in the future they put out the schedules?


----------



## GKDad65

I would've preferred a circle rather than pyramid.....


----------



## ultimate20

Kicknit22 said:


> Next year all DA teams go age specific.  U15,U16,U17,U18.


Is this posted somewhere on the USSDA site?  Thanks.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

↑
Perhaps the hidden rosters/closed circuit is the only way DPL clubs can keep up their pretense that DPL is on par with ECNL.
View attachment 1432
[/QUOTE]

I know the conversation started with DPL v. ECNL, but subconsciously the propaganda is already working. After this post everybody here is talking about which one of those 2 leagues is superior, as if it is now assumed that both of those are superior to SCDSL Flight 1 or CSL Gold. 

Well I don't know much about the teams at the younger ages your referring to but I suggest you focus less on who is better than who. You are mostly talking about middle school age girls.  By the time puberty is over and they reach their Sophomore year a lot of them will no longer even be playing soccer.  Some girls will stop progressing and others will suddenly get a lot better.  Teams will fall apart and maybe even leagues too.  Cars, jobs, boys, and parental pressure will drive a lot of girls out of soccer.  Plus no coaches are looking at your ages yet unless you are in Texas or a national team player.  So focus on keeping the game fun for your daughter and make sure she is getting better. 

At the older ages it's a different story.  ECNL has clearly been far superior to SCDSL or CSL.  I suspect this is still the case.  DA is new but is set up to be at least equal if not better.  You are kidding yourself if you think any other league can even come close to those two leagues. Certainly DPL at the older ages is at least on par with the top tiers of CSL or SCDSL.  Every 02/01/00 DPL team would have been either top flight or premier if DPL was not formed.  That is where these teams came from.  Maybe it's different at the younger ages.  There are still great teams in SCDSL and CSL, just less of them.


----------



## chargerfan

Simisoccerfan said:


> ↑
> Perhaps the hidden rosters/closed circuit is the only way DPL clubs can keep up their pretense that DPL is on par with ECNL.
> View attachment 1432


I know the conversation started with DPL v. ECNL, but subconsciously the propaganda is already working. After this post everybody here is talking about which one of those 2 leagues is superior, as if it is now assumed that both of those are superior to SCDSL Flight 1 or CSL Gold.

Well I don't know much about the teams at the younger ages your referring to but I suggest you focus less on who is better than who. You are mostly talking about middle school age girls.  By the time puberty is over and they reach their Sophomore year a lot of them will no longer even be playing soccer.  Some girls will stop progressing and others will suddenly get a lot better.  Teams will fall apart and maybe even leagues too.  Cars, jobs, boys, and parental pressure will drive a lot of girls out of soccer.  Plus no coaches are looking at your ages yet unless you are in Texas or a national team player.  So focus on keeping the game fun for your daughter and make sure she is getting better.

At the older ages it's a different story.  ECNL has clearly been far superior to SCDSL or CSL.  I suspect this is still the case.  DA is new but is set up to be at least equal if not better.  You are kidding yourself if you think any other league can even come close to those two leagues. Certainly DPL at the older ages is at least on par with the top tiers of CSL or SCDSL.  Every 02/01/00 DPL team would have been either top flight or premier if DPL was not formed.  That is where these teams came from.  Maybe it's different at the younger ages.  There are still great teams in SCDSL and CSL, just less of them.[/QUOTE]

Although by the time many of our kids are sophomores, US soccer will have changed things up again somehow. It's year by year (month by month maybe)  right now, waiting to see what new leagues or rules will be announced to throw yet another wrench into parents and players plans. It's getting harder to just stay focused on your player and their development.


----------



## Kicknit22

ultimate20 said:


> Is this posted somewhere on the USSDA site?  Thanks.


Not certain on that, but I have heard it from US Soccer Technical Advisor as well.


----------



## SFV818-SoccerDad

IS THE DPL EXPANDING??? Inquiring minds want to know..

The DPL website is showing new teams added in each age group or is this for tournaments?  See the attached screen shot.


----------



## Soccer43

Well, after two days at Silverlakes here are the numbers of ECNL vs DPL - They seem pretty evenly matched from the results that are posted

There were 5 ECNL clubs:  Sereno, Slammers, West Coast, San Juan, Solar
                     6 DPL clubs:  Beach, Legends, Real So Cal, LA Premier, Eagles, Pateadores 

18 match ups between ECNL vs DPL (across all of the 5 ages groups)

There were 6 ECNL wins:  Sereno, Slammers, West Coast, Solar
                     5 DPL wins:  Legends, Beach
                     7 ties: 5 DPL clubs (Real So Cal, Beach, Eagles, Pateadores, LA Premier)-3 ECNL clubs (West Coast, Sereno, Slammers,)

Here are the scores for each game:
99/00
Slammers ECNL U18/19  1:2  Legends 99/00 DPL 
Beach DPL 99  0:1  Slammers ECNL U18/19 Composite
Legends 99/00 DPL  2:3  Solar ECNL U18/19     
Sereno ECNL  U18/19  0:3  Beach DPL 99 

2001
Sereno ECNL U17  4:0 Beach 01 DPL  
Legends 01 DPL 0:3 Slammers ECNL U17  
West Coast ECNL U17  1:1  Real So Cal 01 DPL 
San Juan ECNL  U17  1:3  Legend 01 DPL 
Beach 01 DPL  3:3  West Coast ECNL U17
Real So Cal 01 DPL 1:2  Sereno ECNL U17

2002
Sereno ECNL U16  1:1  Beach 02 DPL 
Slammers ECNL U16  1:1  Real So Cal  02 DPL 
LA Premier 02 DPL  1:5  West Coast ECNL U16 

2003
Eagles 03 DPL 0:0 Sereno ECNL U15 
West Coast ECNL U15 1:1 Pateadores 03 DPL
Legends 03 DPL 1:0 Slammers ECNL U15 
LA Premier 03 DPL 1:1  West Coast ECNL U15

2004
West Coast ECNL U14  0:1 Legends 04 DPL


----------



## Josep

I have seen several ecnl and dpl teams play. It is fairly even.  But most clubs aren’t in both DA and ecnl, so you’re talking some 1st teams against 2 teams.  

I’ve also seen SCDSL. It’s definitely a few shades lower.


----------



## Gmiller part deux

Some corrections to scores will have to be made.  Slammers ECNL u15 vs legends dpl was 1-0 in favor of slammers


----------



## SocalPapa

Soccer43 said:


> Well, after two days at Silverlakes here are the numbers of ECNL vs DPL - They seem pretty evenly matched from the results that are posted


If you take a closer look, while DPL didn't do poorly, it is a stretch to say the scores show the leagues to be "evenly matched."

Ignoring 99/00, which includes composite teams and other anomalies (and correcting the Slammers/Legends U15 score), DPL has only a single win against an ECNL team so far.  Legends, the top DPL U17 team with a +25 goal differential beat San Juan, a weaker ECNL team from Northern California.  Notably, when that same Legends team played a decent ECNL team from SoCal (Slammers), they lost 3-0.

DPL's overall record vs ECNL so far in U15, U16 and U17 is 1-5-7.  The 7 ties is not bad (and better than I expected), but again, if you take a closer look, you can see the ties were mostly the better DPL teams playing the weaker ECNL teams.  I added the current ranking and goal differential for all the teams so you can see the relative level of the teams.

2001
Sereno ECNL U17 (7th, -5) 4:0 Beach 01 DPL (4th, +11)
Legends 01 DPL (1st, +25) 0:3 Slammers ECNL U17 (3rd, +6)
West Coast ECNL U17 (6th, -6) 1:1 Real So Cal 01 DPL (3rd, +10)
* San Juan ECNL U17 (4th of 6, Bay Area ECNL, -3) 1:3 Legends 01 DPL (1st, +25) *
Beach 01 DPL (4th, +11) 3:3 West Coast ECNL U17 (6th, -6)
Real So Cal 01 DPL (3rd, +10) 1:2 Sereno ECNL U17 (7th, -5)

2002
Sereno ECNL U16 (7th, -14) 1:1 Beach 02 DPL (5th, +1)
Slammers ECNL U16 (3rd, +1) 1:1 Real So Cal 02 DPL (2nd, +19)
LA Premier 02 DPL (9, -21) 1:5 West Coast ECNL U16 (6th, -11)

2003
Eagles 03 DPL (2nd, +5) 0:0 Sereno ECNL U15 (9th, -26)
West Coast ECNL U15 (6th, -10) 1:1 Pateadores 03 DPL (7th, +2)
Legends 03 DPL (6th, +5) 0:1 Slammers ECNL U15 (3rd, +11)
LA Premier 03 DPL (4, +0) 1:1 West Coast ECNL U15 (7th, -10)


----------



## Justafan

Josep said:


> I’ve also seen SCDSL. It’s definitely a few shades lower.


04's SCDSL/CSL v. DPL (SoCal) - 6 wins, 1 loss, 2 ties.  No games against ECNL teams.

03's SCDSL/CSL v. DPL (SoCal) - 5 wins, 4 losses, 2 ties. 1 win, 2 losses v. ECNL teams.  

I'm sure your probably speaking to the older age groups, but just shedding some light on the younger age groups.


----------



## Josep

I’m not a great defender of DPL.  I’ve seen DPL teams play.  But the truth is, they are B teams. It’s not out of the ordinary to lose as a B team to another club’s A team, whether they are ecnl or DA or not.  

When you look at where most of the talented teams are, it lines up on DA and ecnl.   

And there are some fourth teams out there at some clubs that play SCDSL that will beat other clubs A teams.   Slammers comes to mind.


----------



## zags77

DPL = EGSL


----------



## DefndrDad

The top teams in scdsl and csl seem to be on par, those leagues are just not as deep this year in the 03 group.


----------



## LadiesMan217

zags77 said:


> DPL = EGSL


Let me correct that: DPL = EGSL = ECNL = SCDSL


----------



## Shaggie96

SocalPapa said:


> If you take a closer look, while DPL didn't do poorly, it is a stretch to say the scores show the leagues to be "evenly matched."
> 
> Ignoring 99/00, which includes composite teams and other anomalies (and correcting the Slammers/Legends U15 score), DPL has only a single win against an ECNL team so far.  Legends, the top DPL U17 team with a +25 goal differential beat San Juan, a weaker ECNL team from Northern California.  Notably, when that same Legends team played a decent ECNL team from SoCal (Slammers), they lost 3-0.


This is an interesting discussion from the perspective of someone coming from out of state for SilverLakes. To be fair in regards to your statement above, Slammers only beat the same San Juan team 1-0 where Legends beat them 3-1. Sometimes it's a horses for courses situation.

Unfortunately, we didn't play an ECNL team. We played two DPL teams and one SCDSL Champions division team. There was no comparison, the SCDSL team was the best of the three and the only one that beat us. We dominated the Friday game against a DPL team near the top of the league standings. The interesting thing to me was that the DPL teams seemed to have better results on Saturday and Sunday. On Saturday the team we played on Sunday tied the team we blew out on Friday, so I expected another fairly easy win. The Sunday game was a lot tougher even though we still won. Along with that the team that we dominated on Friday tied the SCDSL team that beat us. Almost made me wonder if the DPL teams were bringing in DA players for Saturday and Sunday even though I'm sure they aren't supposed to do that.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Shaggie96 said:


> Almost made me wonder if the DPL teams were bringing in DA players for Saturday and Sunday even though I'm sure they aren't supposed to do that.


That’s where your head goes?


----------



## DefndrDad

Interesting to get an out of state opinion.


----------



## Shaggie96

Kicker4Life said:


> That’s where your head goes?


Well no, not normally, but when the combined goal differential of games featuring DPL vs. non-DPL teams (in our bracket) goes from -11 on Friday to +5 on Saturday and 0 on Sunday I struggle to come up with a logical explanation for something that seems very unlikely in my experience of many years of closely analyzing a lot of youth soccer scores. I'd love to hear alternative theories.


----------



## Soccer43

With everyday of soccer the same teams can have good games and bad games.  It doesn't always have to be something nefarious


----------



## Kicker4Life

Soccer43 said:


> With everyday of soccer the same teams can have good games and bad games.  It doesn't always have to be something nefarious


And let’s not forget that Holiday that was the day before Friday!  I personally know 3 kids who travelled 7+ hours on Friday to make it to their games and several that missed Friday but were there Sat and Sun (again due to travel).

Factor in that is is a College Showcase so Coaches get the rosters of the games they want to watch and there is no Trophy, so what is there to gain?  It is simply not worth the risk.


----------



## jpeter

Our daughter played at Silverlakes vs a DSL team, the same DPL team in league, and a ECNL team and did well on the scorelines for all three games.  Overall for her she felt it was more like scrimmages than a tournament and missed some for the competitveness of playoffs after you win the bracket or all three games.

These different leagues are really marketing gimmicks and getting parents to compare "results" and who is Superior or not based on game scores is part of con that keeps the $ rolling in.  If your on a team that's near the top or bottom of the standings there a illusion of perception sometimes that team results are directly related to individual Player Development and that is not case trust me on this one.

Everyone has a theory about the best way to develop players but it's clear to me many players need more help in improving technical skills, we need to teach them earlier, have specific specialized technical training and try to improve individual players better,. In the usa we focus too much on teams or on too few "star" or "stud" players and overall we just seem to be chasing the next "elite" league like sheep's or something?

All these rankings and who's better is silly, there are at least 10 other factors to consider that are not really quantifiable such as tactics the coach use,  the focus on winning over the development,  some injuries on the team,  the formation they played with and so forth.

Winning games has been the purpose of youth soccer in the usa for too long and we need to change to players first before team and start collaborating instead of dividing or creating more leagues.


----------



## Shaggie96

Kicker4Life said:


> Factor in that is is a College Showcase so Coaches get the rosters of the games they want to watch and there is no Trophy, so what is there to gain?  It is simply not worth the risk.


This thread would be evidence that in the eyes of the clubs sponsoring the DPL there may be something to gain in terms of reputation. If the DPL is trying to establish itself as on par with ECNL, they probably would've been a bit discouraged by the results on Friday. Even if it wasn't DA players, could've been players from other teams in the club, I don't know. As I said in my original comment, I was just considering possible options to explain some very unexpected results. I'm not accusing anybody of anything.


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## SocalPapa

Shaggie96 said:


> Almost made me wonder if the DPL teams were bringing in DA players for Saturday and Sunday even though I'm sure they aren't supposed to do that.


My daughter played in Surf College Cup this weekend and saw similar anomalies (including from her own team).  In her team's case the coach gave various bench players more playing time than typical in one game or another because it was a showcase tournament. If the same thing was happening in Silverlakes, that might explain the difference (and also make my earlier attempt to analyze the results somewhat pointless).


----------



## jose

Unfortunately, we didn't play an ECNL team. We played two DPL teams and one SCDSL Champions division team. There was no comparison, the SCDSL team was the best of the three and the only one that beat us. We dominated the Friday game against a DPL team near the top of the league standings. The interesting thing to me was that the DPL teams seemed to have better results on Saturday and Sunday. On Saturday the team we played on Sunday tied the team we blew out on Friday, so I expected another fairly easy win. The Sunday game was a lot tougher even though we still won. Along with that the team that we dominated on Friday tied the SCDSL team that beat us. Almost made me wonder if the DPL teams were bringing in DA players for Saturday and Sunday even though I'm sure they aren't supposed to do that.[/QUOTE]

Well as a friend of mine would say sometimes its just not your day. Were all the players at your friday game?  maybe the kids don't play well onfriday after traveling? Or maybe that they are kids and as it is in every single sport at every level some days you just get your ass handed to you.  My DD team will beat a top team like surf 1-0 and then lose to a less talented  team 5-0. It happens all the time. i wouldn't look to far into it than that.


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## Shaggie96

Well as a friend of mine would say sometimes its just not your day. Were all the players at your friday game?  maybe the kids don't play well onfriday after traveling? Or maybe that they are kids and as it is in every single sport at every level some days you just get your ass handed to you.  My DD team will beat a top team like surf 1-0 and then lose to a less talented  team 5-0. It happens all the time. i wouldn't look to far into it than that.[/QUOTE]

I get it, but these are older girls and generally the older the kids get the more predictable the results. I have rarely seen swings as large as the ones we saw this weekend, but it's possible as SoCalPapa said that teams were giving subs more playing time. I don't put much stock in travel being an issue as we had to travel as far as just about any team in the tournament and Friday was our best day. Add to that the fact that our girls haven't played a competitive game outdoors since HS ended almost two months ago and I would've expected us to get better, not the local teams who've been playing consistently.


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## jose

"development over winning". Blah Blah Blah. Winning is developing too . You need to learn and know how to win. You cannot win all the time without being talented nobody is that lucky.  So what if the other team is bigger and kicks the ball around if you have talent and desire then you win those balls. They will suck later and you will win the bigger prize. If you are losing because of that than it should motivate you to win more or else its just an excuse. When you get tired of losing then you will grow. Just like Ho' Solo cried about losing to Sweden because they played they way they did stop crying and get better.


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## Shaggie96

jose said:


> "development over winning". Blah Blah Blah. Winning is developing too . You need to learn and know how to win. You cannot win all the time without being talented nobody is that lucky.  So what if the other team is bigger and kicks the ball around if you have talent and desire then you win those balls. They will suck later and you will win the bigger prize. If you are losing because of that than it should motivate you to win more or else its just an excuse. When you get tired of losing then you will grow. Just like Ho' Solo cried about losing to Sweden because they played they way they did stop crying and get better.


I'll admit this idea is something of a mystery to me as well. I don't care what sport you're playing, athleticism can only take you so far. At some point you have to master the fundamentals of the sport if you want to play at a high level. You never hear the 'development over winning" mantra thrown around in any other youth sport as much as you do in soccer. If winning becomes a focus to the point that the game is no longer fun, to me that's a problem, but in my life it has always been more fun to win and play well.


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## Mystery Train

SFV818-SoccerDad said:


> IS THE DPL EXPANDING??? Inquiring minds want to know..
> 
> The DPL website is showing new teams added in each age group or is this for tournaments?  See the attached screen shot.


Nobody answered this earlier, and I saw this as well.  The DPL 'standings' show a ton of new teams just added, most from out of state, but notably Slammers HB EGSL, and Slammers ECNL, as well as WCFC ECNL.  I know that Slammers HB team was in SCDSL Champions div this season, not sure if the two "ECNL" teams were  the ECNL 2 (EGSL) teams or the regular ECNL teams.   All of these new clubs look like clubs in the DA and ECNL.  Maybe DPL is opening up the league to ECNL clubs too?  Anyone connected to those teams care to confirm if this is for real?  If so, DPL just got slightly more interesting.  

http://primetimesportz.bonzidev.com/sam/standings/ss/schedule.php?v=3&divisionID=MTU4MTMx


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## Shaggie96

These were teams from SilverLakes. No idea why they were added in. I assumed maybe they use the same software platform or something.


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## Mystery Train

Shaggie96 said:


> These were teams from SilverLakes. No idea why they were added in. I assumed maybe they use the same software platform or something.


Ah, thanks.  Interesting...


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## Overtime

DPL turned out to be what most realistic people thought.  The idea of "mirroring" the DA program with a closed league, game films and guaranteed entry in showcase events was a good idea with poor execution.  The schedule included 9 games with some teams having a 3+ week gap in games, we have received a total of 5 game films of 9 games (5 from our team).  Some teams used professional services others had a camcorder on a stick(RSC).  The quality of teams and style of play was about what we expected and the showcases were good. In 2018 So Cal club soccer would be better served to have these teams play in SCDSL flight 1.


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## LadiesMan217

Overtime said:


> DPL turned out to be what most realistic people thought.  The idea of "mirroring" the DA program with a closed league, game films and guaranteed entry in showcase events was a good idea with poor execution.  The schedule included 9 games with some teams having a 3+ week gap in games, we have received a total of 5 game films of 9 games (5 from our team).  Some teams used professional services others had a camcorder on a stick(RSC).  The quality of teams and style of play was about what we expected and the showcases were good. In 2018 So Cal club soccer would be better served to have these teams play in SCDSL flight 1.


What was poorly executed? Was the late September gap really an issue? How closed is it really (CDA Slammers, Slammers, Surf, Blues, etc. can all have teams if they want)? How many films did the SCDSL teams make? How is SoCal better served with teams playing in a SCDSL Flight 1? Interested in your thoughts although I have no skin in the game (not being troll)...


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## Simisoccerfan

We played the second place SCDSL Champions Division team to a draw and in my opinion we had better chances to win than them.  I know most will not like hearing this but for 2001's DPL is more competitive that the Champions division.  I think DPL is on the right track.


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## Lambchop

Mystery Train said:


> I have seen this play out dramatically in the 02 age group.  That age group has had to endure the most turmoil at the most critical point in gaining college exposure. From the age group change as they went into the U15 season, to the DA & DPL leagues being established, which on top of the usual off-season free agency craziness, means that almost no teams in the top 50 in SoCal stayed intact from U14 to U16.    A couple that did in Flight 1 and CSL Gold (mixes of '03 and '02's that 'played up' in U14) look like well oiled machines in games.  I've watched some of the DA teams play this summer and a few ECNL teams whose rosters have been shuffled because of the DA, and though they still have top notch athletes, the games are pretty ragged compared to what I saw in years past at the same age groups.  Every year there is movement on all teams, but some of the rosters are almost unrecognizable and it does affect quality of play, even if you have great players.


It is easier to "look like a well oiled machines" when you play less skilled teams.


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## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> We played the second place SCDSL Champions Division team to a draw and in my opinion we had better chances to win than them.  I know most will not like hearing this but for 2001's DPL is more competitive that the Champions division.  I think DPL is on the right track.


Wrong again, SCDSL v. DPL record was 1- win, 0-losses, and 4 ties.  The FACTS don't back you up.  You point to ONE game and claim a moral victory with a tie.  And for the record, I am not saying one league is better than the other, in fact I think the top teams in DPL, SCDSL, and ECNL (in the younger age groups) are all pretty evenly matched.  YOU are saying DPL is better than SCDSL.  Looking at the DPL standings, it looks like you have one real good team at the top, two real bad teams at the bottom, and everyone else pretty even.  Sounds like your typical league distribution to me.  And just with most second teams, the stronger clubs have the stronger second teams.  Don't forget your record against ECNL, which wasn't very good.


----------



## Fact

Justafan said:


> Wrong again, SCDSL v. DPL record was 1- win, 0-losses, and 4 ties.  The FACTS don't back you up.  You point to ONE game and claim a moral victory with a tie.  And for the record, I am not saying one league is better than the other, in fact I think the top teams in DPL, SCDSL, and ECNL (in the younger age groups) are all pretty evenly matched.  YOU are saying DPL is better than SCDSL.  Looking at the DPL standings, it looks like you have one real good team at the top, two real bad teams at the bottom, and everyone else pretty even.  Sounds like your typical league distribution to me.  And just with most second teams, the stronger clubs have the stronger second teams.  Don't forget your record against ECNL, which wasn't very good.


How dare you be rational and provide facts!  Gotta love the spin.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Justafan said:


> Wrong again, SCDSL v. DPL record was 1- win, 0-losses, and 4 ties.  The FACTS don't back you up.  You point to ONE game and claim a moral victory with a tie.  And for the record, I am not saying one league is better than the other, in fact I think the top teams in DPL, SCDSL, and ECNL (in the younger age groups) are all pretty evenly matched.  YOU are saying DPL is better than SCDSL.  Looking at the DPL standings, it looks like you have one real good team at the top, two real bad teams at the bottom, and everyone else pretty even.  Sounds like your typical league distribution to me.  And just with most second teams, the stronger clubs have the stronger second teams.  Don't forget your record against ECNL, which wasn't very good.


You can quote all the stats you want.  They don't tell the story.  Did you watch any of those games?   I did.  I believe that DPL is as good as Champions if not more consistent.  I make no reference to ECNL.  Also remember that only three of the better SCDSL teams were in this bracket.  Certainly not the weaker teams of Champions.


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## Dummy

Simisoccerfan said:


> You can quote all the stats you want.  They don't tell the story.  Did you watch any of those games?   I did.  I believe that DPL is as good as Champions if not more consistent.  I make no reference to ECNL.  Also remember that only three of the better SCDSL teams were in this bracket.  Certainly not the weaker teams of Champions.


CRL results seem to suggest that SCDSL and CSL teams are competive against DPL teams.  If DPL teams are a better fit for some players and families, fine.  SCDSL and CSL clubs and teams still have plenty to offer other players and families.


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## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> You can quote all the stats you want.  They don't tell the story.  Did you watch any of those games?   I did.  I believe that DPL is as good as Champions if not more consistent.  I make no reference to ECNL.  Also remember that only three of the better SCDSL teams were in this bracket.  Certainly not the weaker teams of Champions.


Wrong again Simi, you're trying WAY too hard to distinguish DPL from the other leagues and its just not working.  If you had just left out the "if not more consistent," you would have been fine with me, but you had to throw that line in there just to give DPL a slight edge.  

Here are the facts: 

South Slammers FC (7th place in champions) crushed Pats, the 7th place DPL team 5-2.  They tied the 2nd place DPL team LA Premiere 1-1.

CDA Slammers FC HB Elite (2nd place Champions) tied 5th place DPL SC Del Sol 3-3 and tied 8th place Eagles 1-1.

Legends South (2nd place Europa West, arguably in SCDSL's 11-15 range, and I'm not counting the 2 last place teams in Champions) tied 9th place LA Galaxy Del Sol 1-1.  

No I didn't watch, but I don't know what you were watching to make the call as "more consistent."  Again, all I'm saying is that both these leagues are very evenly matched and for one to assume superiority over the other is flat out wrong.  That's what I'm calling you out on.  And my core argument is that there was no need to create this league.


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## Justafan

Dummy said:


> CRL results seem to suggest that SCDSL and CSL teams are competive against DPL teams.  If DPL teams are a better fit for some players and families, fine.  SCDSL and CSL clubs and teams still have plenty to offer other players and families.


This is exactly what I'm talking about.  Look at the way you consciously or subconsciously word your first sentence when you say "SCDSL and CSL teams are competitive against DPL teams," as if to assume that DPL teams are the standard, and that SCDSL and CSL teams have proven themselves enough to be up to that standard.  Again, you guys are trying too hard too distinguish DPL as somehow better, even if slight, than the other leagues.  That's just not going to fly here.


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## Dummy

Justafan said:


> This is exactly what I'm talking about.  Look at the way you consciously or subconsciously word your first sentence when you say "SCDSL and CSL teams are competitive against DPL teams," as if to assume that DPL teams are the standard, and that SCDSL and CSL teams have proven themselves enough to be up to that standard.  Again, you guys are trying too hard too distinguish DPL as somehow better, even if slight, than the other leagues.  That's just not going to fly here.


You are right in your critique about how I worded my response.  I am not trying to distinguish DPL as better.  I am just trying to gently encourage those that are to look at standings like this with an open mind.

http://2017crlleagueseason.sportsaffinity.com/Tour/public/info/schedule_results2.asp?sessionguid=&flightguid=D18DB01D-87A9-4D9E-B4A5-53B34EA63233&tournamentguid=D388082C-745C-4D0B-B45D-8D225EAC7B94


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Justafan, I know don't like my opinion.  I know you and many others are in the wishful thinking group thinking DPL should not exist.  But that ship has sailed.   I have seen a lot of club soccer with three kids playing for a decade now.  I have seen most of the better 01 teams play through years.   It is my opinion based on observations that DPL is at least as good as the top of flight 1 or gold and certainly not inferior to it.  You can't just look at scores but you need to watch actual games.  I know you don't agree.  That's fine with me.  But I can say playing DPL was the right decision for my dd.


----------



## Dummy

Simisoccerfan said:


> Justafan, I know don't like my opinion.  I know you and many others are in the wishful thinking group thinking DPL should not exist.  But that ship has sailed.   I have seen a lot of club soccer with three kids playing for a decade now.  I have seen most of the better 01 teams play through years.   It is my opinion based on observations that DPL is at least as good as the top of flight 1 or gold and certainly not inferior to it.  You can't just look at scores but you need to watch actual games.  I know you don't agree.  That's fine with me.  But I can say playing DPL was the right decision for my dd.


DPL is a fine choice for players and parents to make.  Each family knows what is best for them given what is available where they live.  However, in my opinion, justafan is right that the creation of DPL has diminished club soccer in Southern California.  Our team misses playing the “DPL” teams that it used to play when they were in SoCal leagues.  I do not see the benefit to DPL teams to playing in a closed circuit.  What it looks like me when I look at the league standings is that all the teams at the top of each league (CSL, DPL and SCDSL) are in want of stronger local competition.

I have no doubt that your family has made the right decision for your player, but that does not mean that the people that run DA/DPL have done the same.  Please respect that there are players, families, teams and clubs that seem to play soccer at the highest level without validation from US Soccer.

http://events.gotsport.com/events/schedule.aspx?eventid=61178&FieldID=0&applicationID=4351249&action=Go


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## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> It is my opinion based on observations that DPL is at least as good as the top of flight 1 or gold and certainly not inferior to it.


WE AGREE!  Remember, I never said that SCDSL or CSL was better than DPL, in fact I think they are comparable.  What I have a problem with is the insinuation or assumption that DPL is better than the others.  

As I've said before, generally speaking, there are about 3-5 elite teams in each age group, followed by about 8-10 excellent teams, followed by about 20-30 very good teams.  At least in the older age groups, DA and ECNL take up most (perhaps not all) of the top 15 spots and the next 20-30 very good teams are dispersed pretty evenly between the other leagues.  

I never had, nor will I ever have, a problem with anyone finding the right fit with a team that happens to be a DPL team.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Justafan said:


> WE AGREE!  Remember, I never said that SCDSL or CSL was better than DPL, in fact I think they are comparable.  What I have a problem with is the insinuation or assumption that DPL is better than the others.
> 
> As I've said before, generally speaking, there are about 3-5 elite teams in each age group, followed by about 8-10 excellent teams, followed by about 20-30 very good teams.  At least in the older age groups, DA and ECNL take up most (perhaps not all) of the top 15 spots and the next 20-30 very good teams are dispersed pretty evenly between the other leagues.
> 
> I never had, nor will I ever have, a problem with anyone finding the right fit with a team that happens to be a DPL team.


I agree completely with your post!  It's an exciting week for us since we are heading to Florida.  I am going too to check it out.  Should be interesting.


----------



## DefndrDad

Dummy said:


> You are right in your critique about how I worded my response.  I am not trying to distinguish DPL as better.  I am just trying to gently encourage those that are to look at standings like this with an open mind.
> 
> http://2017crlleagueseason.sportsaffinity.com/Tour/public/info/schedule_results2.asp?sessionguid=&flightguid=D18DB01D-87A9-4D9E-B4A5-53B34EA63233&tournamentguid=D388082C-745C-4D0B-B45D-8D225EAC7B94


Another thing to consider in this discussion is the results/experiences are different depending on what age group you are discussing.  The link you posted was for 2001’s.  The results and discussions can vary as you move from 2001 to 2000 to 2003‘s.  The age year change, along with DA and Dpl affected these groups definitely.


----------



## Dummy

DefndrDad said:


> Another thing to consider in this discussion is the results/experiences are different depending on what age group you are discussing.  The link you posted was for 2001’s.  The results and discussions can vary as you move from 2001 to 2000 to 2003‘s.  The age year change, along with DA and Dpl affected these groups definitely.


You are correct, but the reason that I posted links about 2001’s was because I joined in a conversation about 2001’s.  I am interested to hear the experiences that players and families have had in these other age groups.


----------



## SocalPapa

My impression for a while now has been that the best SCDSL Champions teams and best DPL teams are both very good.  Nothing I've seen recently has changed that impression.

The issue in my view isn't which league is "better" now.  The issue is how the split has affected these top teams.  To try to measure the impact, I computed the spread in average goal differential between the top 3 teams and the worst 3 teams both before and after the split.  

I found that, on average, the spread increased about half a goal per game for the 2004-2001 age groups combined.  This means that the best teams were half a goal better per game than the worst teams in league play than they were prior to the split.  The difference was most pronounced in the 2004 age group and also more pronounced in DPL than in SCDSL (meaning that the best DPL teams were more negatively impacted by the split than the best SCDSL teams).

The analysis is not perfect because some of the DPL teams came from CSL, but the results seem to confirm that the formation of DPL has hurt the best players and teams by reducing the number of similarly good players and teams they face week to week in league play.  So it's not just a matter of us parents choosing which league works better for our daughters.  Everyone is affected by the split and therefore everyone has an interest in what happens going forward.


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## DefndrDad

Dummy said:


> You are correct, but the reason that I posted links about 2001’s was because I joined in a conversation about 2001’s.  I am interested to hear the experiences that players and families have had in these other age groups.


My dd is on a 2003 Csl team. The team composition was not affected by the new leagues, but more the level of competition faced. Overall, the competition within league play was lower.


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## Simisoccerfan

SocalPapa said:


> My impression for a while now has been that the best SCDSL Champions teams and best DPL teams are both very good.  Nothing I've seen recently has changed that impression.
> 
> The issue in my view isn't which league is "better" now.  The issue is how the split has affected these top teams.  To try to measure the impact, I computed the spread in average goal differential between the top 3 teams and the worst 3 teams both before and after the split.
> 
> I found that, on average, the spread increased about half a goal per game for the 2004-2001 age groups combined.  This means that the best teams were half a goal better per game than the worst teams in league play than they were prior to the split.  The difference was most pronounced in the 2004 age group and also more pronounced in DPL than in SCDSL (meaning that the best DPL teams were more negatively impacted by the split than the best SCDSL teams).
> 
> The analysis is not perfect because some of the DPL teams came from CSL, but the results seem to confirm that the formation of DPL has hurt the best players and teams by reducing the number of similarly good players and teams they face week to week in league play.  So it's not just a matter of us parents choosing which league works better for our daughters.  Everyone is affected by the split and therefore everyone has an interest in what happens going forward.
> 
> View attachment 1768


I think you have provided some very interesting data.  Certainly holes can be poked in the specifics.  For example there has been a ton of player movement so its hard to compare one year to another.  Still I agree that the introduction of DA and new ECNL teams has diluted the talent for the lower leagues.  The introduction of DPL has also diluted the level of teams in the remaining SCDSL and CSL.  The same could be said for how SCDSL hurt CSL when it was formed several years ago.  At the end of the day though the fall leagues are only about 10 out of the 40 plus games that these teams play in a year.  So there is still plenty of opportunity to play against each other.   National Cup will also bring these three leagues together.


----------



## DefndrDad

Simisoccerfan said:


> I think you have provided some very interesting data.  Certainly holes can be poked in the specifics.  For example there has been a ton of player movement so its hard to compare one year to another.  Still I agree that the introduction of DA and new ECNL teams has diluted the talent for the lower leagues.  The introduction of DPL has also diluted the level of teams in the remaining SCDSL and CSL.  The same could be said for how SCDSL hurt CSL when it was formed several years ago.  At the end of the day though the fall leagues are only about 10 out of the 40 plus games that these teams play in a year.  So there is still plenty of opportunity to play against each other.   National Cup will also bring these three leagues together.


 Which is why tournaments and showcases make it more interesting for us the viewers. The cross league/region/state play give us lots to talk about .


----------



## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> I think you have provided some very interesting data.  Certainly holes can be poked in the specifics.  For example there has been a ton of player movement so its hard to compare one year to another.  Still I agree that the introduction of DA and new ECNL teams has diluted the talent for the lower leagues.  The introduction of DPL has also diluted the level of teams in the remaining SCDSL and CSL.  The same could be said for how SCDSL hurt CSL when it was formed several years ago.  At the end of the day though the fall leagues are only about 10 out of the 40 plus games that these teams play in a year.  So there is still plenty of opportunity to play against each other.   National Cup will also bring these three leagues together.


You can slice the numbers in different ways but they point in one direction.  You are right about the impact of DA though, particularly on ECNL.  The top SW ECNL teams are still very good (as evidenced from the results in Silverlakes and Surf College Cup), but I'm seeing some poor results at the bottom.  I suspect with the same analysis you'd see an even greater hit to the goal differential gap in the Southwest division over the past year.  In any event, this is yet another argument for why the formation of DA on the girls side is not necessary a good thing for overall player development in the US.

Further, this a discussion about leagues so the fact that there may be playing opportunities outside of the leagues is somewhat beside the point.  And the National Cup matchups are very fluky.  Not a good example of having other guaranteed opportunities for a consistent/equal level of competition.  Moreover, the fact that a decision adverse to player development may have been made in the past doesn't mean we should repeat it.

P.S.  I sincerely hope none of the families on your daughter's team are affected by the fires.  And may God bless everyone who is impacted.


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## zags77

I watched several of the '01 DPL teams play at Silverlakes Thanksgiving showcase.  The games were similar and on par with any SCDSL or CSL game.  In my honest opinion the hierarchy goes DA, ECNL and then all 3 SCDSL, DPL, CSL are equal, anyone can beat anyone on any given day.

My biggest complaint is that the tournament stacked the deck so several good teams did not get the opportunity to play DPL teams at the 01 age group.  The biggest issue I have with these DPL teams being put in the top flight is that they haven't earned the right to be there.  Similarly to CRL all the DPL teams did not earn the right to play in CRL this season, they got a free pass because their top teams last year competed in CRL and performed well.  All these large clubs with DA were able to keep their CRL place holders and pass it on their second teams.  

There is cross competition currently going on and the DPL teams are not performing.  They should be given passes to CRL or top flights of showcases (automatic entry is fine but put them at an appropriate level).  6 of the 10 DPL teams finished in the bottom 12 of Silverlakes thanksgiving showcase with a record of 0-5-13, yes that's right not one win!

Simi, I assumed you moved to Eagles DPL with your former coach, I watched the Eagles vs. Del Sol DPL match and it was an absolute snooze fest.  It is nice to hear that your DD is getting the opportunity to play with the DA team this weekend in Florida and that to me is the reason if any to play DPL.  Id be curious to hear how many other DPL players are getting the opportunity or chance to play with the DA teams.


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## Simisoccerfan

Zags,

 You started out fine with your post but then you felt the need to take a cheap shot with your snooze fest comment.  I think that is uncalled for.  

The other issue I have with your post is the comment "they haven't earned the right to be there".  Yes DPL is new but you seem to forget that if DPL did not exist every one of these teams would have been Premier or Flight 1.  I don't know what team your with but some of the Premier and Flight 1 teams would be at a lower level if DPL did not exist. 

Our team is a a mix of players from 4 teams (1 ECNL team and 3 teams that would have been Premier).  Besides having to play a DPL team (which I wish we did not) we tied a top team from Texas and the 2nd place team from Champions Flight 1 so I think we did well. 

I agree with you that the real reason to play DPL was the opportunity to get pulled into the DA.  If you look at match reports on the DA website you can see the numbers.  Each club can use up to 6 DP's at an age group.  Most have used 2-3 so far.  After the 6 games you can play the club needs to determine whether they want to offer a full time slot or its back to your old team.


----------



## zags77

Simisoccerfan said:


> Zags,
> 
> The other issue I have with your post is the comment "they haven't earned the right to be there".  Yes DPL is new but you seem to forget that if DPL did not exist every one of these teams would have been Premier or Flight 1.  I don't know what team your with but some of the Premier and Flight 1 teams would be at a lower level if DPL did not exist.  .


False, you have made this argument several times and it's  wrong.  LA Galaxy's San Diego top team would be in Premier and playing CRL, the DPL team would be in Silver Elite and not playing CRL.  Beach top team would be in Champions League SCDSL and the DPL team would be a Tier 1 team.  Albion's top team would be in Premier and the DPL team would be in Gold.   So essentially the DPL team you joined at eagles would have been their 0-14 Gold team from 2016.  Had the DA not happened you likely would have stayed with Simi Valley.......

I think you get the point.  As I stated in my previous post the DPL teams have not earned the right to play in the top flight of anything until they win something.   I also think all DPL teams should be required to "play in" to CRL if they don't finish in the top 4 of the CRL standings for 2017-2018.

Sorry about the snooze fest comment, I actually fell asleep,  maybe it was from the beers I had at the clubhouse at lunch!  Good luck in FLA!


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Just a minor correction to your post.  The eagles team we joined was their Premier team not their gold team.  There DA team is essentially there ECNL team from last year.  Their gold team was demoted to Silver Elite.


----------



## Lambchop

zags77 said:


> I watched several of the '01 DPL teams play at Silverlakes Thanksgiving showcase.  The games were similar and on par with any SCDSL or CSL game.  In my honest opinion the hierarchy goes DA, ECNL and then all 3 SCDSL, DPL, CSL are equal, anyone can beat anyone on any given day.
> 
> My biggest complaint is that the tournament stacked the deck so several good teams did not get the opportunity to play DPL teams at the 01 age group.  The biggest issue I have with these DPL teams being put in the top flight is that they haven't earned the right to be there.  Similarly to CRL all the DPL teams did not earn the right to play in CRL this season, they got a free pass because their top teams last year competed in CRL and performed well.  All these large clubs with DA were able to keep their CRL place holders and pass it on their second teams.
> A little off topic, good luck to all the southern California girls heading to Florida today!  What
> There is cross competition currently going on and the DPL teams are not performing.  They should be given passes to CRL or top flights of showcases (automatic entry is fine but put them at an appropriate level).  6 of the 10 DPL teams finished in the bottom 12 of Silverlakes thanksgiving showcase with a record of 0-5-13, yes that's right not one win!
> 
> Simi, I assumed you moved to Eagles DPL with your former coach, I watched the Eagles vs. Del Sol DPL match and it was an absolute snooze fest.  It is nice to hear that your DD is getting the opportunity to play with the DA team this weekend in Florida and that to me is the reason if any to play DPL.  Id be curious to hear how many other DPL players are getting the opportunity or chance to play with the DA teams.



A little off topic, but good luck to all the Southern California girls heading to Florida today!  What a fun memory!


----------



## Dummy

DefndrDad said:


> My dd is on a 2003 Csl team. The team composition was not affected by the new leagues, but more the level of competition faced. Overall, the competition within league play was lower.


That too has been mine’s experience in SCDSL and CRL.


Simisoccerfan said:


> Zags,
> 
> You started out fine with your post but then you felt the need to take a cheap shot with your snooze fest comment.  I think that is uncalled for.
> 
> The other issue I have with your post is the comment "they haven't earned the right to be there".  Yes DPL is new but you seem to forget that if DPL did not exist every one of these teams would have been Premier or Flight 1.  I don't know what team your with but some of the Premier and Flight 1 teams would be at a lower level if DPL did not exist.
> 
> Our team is a a mix of players from 4 teams (1 ECNL team and 3 teams that would have been Premier).  Besides having to play a DPL team (which I wish we did not) we tied a top team from Texas and the 2nd place team from Champions Flight 1 so I think we did well.
> 
> I agree with you that the real reason to play DPL was the opportunity to get pulled into the DA.  If you look at match reports on the DA website you can see the numbers.  Each club can use up to 6 DP's at an age group.  Most have used 2-3 so far.  After the 6 games you can play the club needs to determine whether they want to offer a full time slot or its back to your old team.


Are there other So Cal DA clubs taking DPL players to Florida?  What does it cost for DPL players to participate?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

No cost difference.


----------



## Mystery Train

Lambchop said:


> It is easier to "look like a well oiled machines" when you play less skilled teams.


True, but I don't know that anyone can assess the skill gap (if it exists) between the Flight 1 and the CSL Premier teams I'm thinking of, vs. various new DPL & DA squads and the depleted ECNL teams because of the closed circuits.  Both of them waxed high-level teams at Surf College Cup, including an ECNL club . . . and both still looked like well-oiled machines to me.   I'd love to see some of these teams meet up in National Cup play.  

My original point was that teams that stick together over long periods of time can compete with hastily formed all-star teams because of the consistency of play and coaching.  Over time, I would expect that if those new DPL and DA teams stay together, they would benefit from that same factor and should rise to the top, but the quality of play in the early stages has looked pretty ragged to this observer.


----------



## Desert Hound

So for those who had kids in the DPL...how has it been so far? Worth it?


----------



## Soccerreccos

So many factors go into happiness with a soccer season.... dynamics of the girls on the team, coaches, team manager, weather, you name it. We, as parents, were not happy with this DPL season. As a separate issue, our daughter was not happy. I can point to many reasons but the disorganization of DPL and the messaging to DPL players by the club were some (not all) of the contributing factors.


----------



## Desert Hound

Soccerreccos said:


> So many factors go into happiness with a soccer season.... dynamics of the girls on the team, coaches, team manager, weather, you name it. We, as parents, were not happy with this DPL season. As a separate issue, our daughter was not happy. I can point to many reasons but the disorganization of DPL and the messaging to DPL players by the club were some (not all) of the contributing factors.


Was it an issue of selling something that was not? IE hey this is just south of DA...but the reality was not? 

And you are right...lots of factors contribute to whether or not a team works out.


----------



## Soccerreccos

Desert Hound said:


> Was it an issue of selling something that was not? IE hey this is just south of DA...but the reality was not?
> 
> And you are right...lots of factors contribute to whether or not a team works out.


Unfulfilled promises. A league that was thrown together. Not enough games before the season began. Bad communication all the way around. My daughter did not develop under this program. She had perhaps the least development this year than in all her other years playing soccer (at the highest cost, mind you).  Again, lots of factors with DPL being one of them.  And DPL is not “just south” of DA. Second class citizens (at least in my experience).


----------



## Fact

Soccerreccos said:


> Unfulfilled promises. A league that was thrown together. Not enough games before the season began. Bad communication all the way around. My daughter did not develop under this program. She had perhaps the least development this year than in all her other years playing soccer (at the highest cost, mind you).  Again, lots of factors with DPL being one of them.  And DPL is not “just south” of DA. Second class citizens (at least in my experience).


Did the DPL team cost more than another team (say a boys team that is the same age and that players at the same level)in club?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Our experience was the opposite.  We played 9 games or so in league which was only slightly less than other leagues.  We did play a number of tournaments and showcases pre and post season.  We found the fields we played on to be in excellent shape and the refs were decent.   The water stations, canopies and game filming (once it started) were nice touches.   Except for the dual DA/ECNL clubs we were playing the second teams at these big clubs so the competition was good.   We had the DA coaches at a number of our games and talking to the teams after games.   I liked that we had no early games.   Training 3 days a week was nice and our fields were excellent (likely more a function of the club than the league).   Clearly DA was treated as the top but it should be.  

With being a parent of 3 different club players over 10 years in various leagues and teams and levels of play I have found that there is always kids and/or parents that are unhappy no matter what the league, team, age, or level is being played (I have been one of them before).   For us DPL had a very positive outcome.  I know others that did not feel this way.   But I can say I did not see any greater degree of unhappiness with DPL than I have seen elsewhere.


----------



## SoccerLife75

I guess DPL experiences depended on club.  Some clubs fulfilled promises and others didn’t.    I believe the clubs with the most success are fulfilling Development while others are just trying to survive with what they have.


----------



## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> Except for the dual DA/ECNL clubs we were playing the second teams at these big clubs so the competition was good.


This is what I don't understand - what does DPL being a closed/independent league have to do with your playing opportunities at tournament/showcases?  If you are the B team for a big DA club, wouldn't you still get a spot at these tournaments (just like your opposition did) with or without the league?  I still don't see why the DPL teams couldn't have stayed in CSL and SCDSL.


----------



## Porkchop

My daughter  play's in the DPL- she recently played in a scrimmage for a different team  (she loves to play) this was the coaches feed back:"
Your  daughter has improved a lot since I last saw her play. I love how composed she is with the ball at her feet. Even at the center back position, she stayed calm and was able to connect a pass with someone’s feet.  Her ball skill is exceptional for a defender,she should keep doing what she’s doing. " so I could say the DPL has worked for her.


----------



## TangoCity

Porkchop said:


> My daughter  play's in the DPL- she recently played in a scrimmage for a different team  (she loves to play) this was the coaches feed back:"
> Your  daughter has improved a lot since I last saw her play. I love how composed she is with the ball at her feet. Even at the center back position, she stayed calm and was able to connect a pass with someone’s feet.  Her ball skill is exceptional for a defender,she should keep doing what she’s doing. " so I could say the DPL has worked for her.


Knowing who your daughter is ... I would say it is her hard work ethic and desire to improve that has worked for her.  
Keep up the good work!


----------



## chargerfan

Porkchop said:


> My daughter  play's in the DPL- she recently played in a scrimmage for a different team  (she loves to play) this was the coaches feed back:"
> Your  daughter has improved a lot since I last saw her play. I love how composed she is with the ball at her feet. Even at the center back position, she stayed calm and was able to connect a pass with someone’s feet.  Her ball skill is exceptional for a defender,she should keep doing what she’s doing. " so I could say the DPL has worked for her.


This is more likely a product of good coaching and just plain old time and physical/mental growth and maturity, rather than league.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

SocalPapa said:


> This is what I don't understand - what does DPL being a closed/independent league have to do with your playing opportunities at tournament/showcases?  If you are the B team for a big DA club, wouldn't you still get a spot at these tournaments (just like your opposition did) with or without the league?  I still don't see why the DPL teams couldn't have stayed in CSL and SCDSL.


I don't see way SCDSL teams could not have stayed in CSL.


----------



## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> I don't see way SCDSL teams could not have stayed in CSL.


I know you are just a parent like me, but you've been the chief advocate for DPL on this forum for a while now and your need to address my question with "whataboutism" is telling.

Plus your statement is incorrect.  It wasn't SCDSL "teams" that left CSL, it was "clubs."  By contrast, the DPL clubs that were playing for SCDSL and CSL are still there.  They are just keeping their B teams out of league play, having them play a reduced number of fall games in a round robin format and calling it a "league."  The situations are not parallel.

Most of the DPL benefits you've cited appear to be benefits that come along with being a B team in a large club (good training, the chance to perhaps be promoted to the club's A team some day, playing in good tournaments, getting games videotaped, etc.).  Other benefits (being able to play at Silver Lakes each week) seem like detriments (there are no home/local games so there is increased travel).

The only clear benefit I see to clubs from playing in DPL specifically is that the lesser DPL teams are guaranteed the right to play against the good DPL teams and lose to their hearts content without the threat of demotion.  While wins/losses shouldn't necessarily be the top priority, our girls should be playing similarly-talented competition to the extent possible, especially at these older groups.  This is why the vast majority of club soccer leagues in this country allow less talented teams to be moved to a lower division, or promoted, as warranted.  But the structure of DPL doesn't permit that to happen.  There are some really good teams in DPL, but they are stuck, now and forever, playing whatever the other DPL clubs are able to throw at them.

If there is anything that ends up breaking DPL apart, my guess is it will be that.  At some point, for example, Legends might get tired of blowing out other DPL clubs all the time and will seek an arrangement that will give them a chance at more consistently strong competition.


----------



## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> I don't see way SCDSL teams could not have stayed in CSL.


Two wrongs dont make a right Simi.  Ideally all the strong teams should be in one league, that’s why the creation of DPL, when we already had TOO many leagues was completely unnecessary.  That’s the point.  The point is not that things have turned out ok with most teams in DPL, because they would have been just as fine in SCDSL, CSL, etc.  

I recall reading posts when CSL was the only league and the premiere division was stud team after stud team after stud team.  With promotion and relegation, I can only imagine how frk’n competitive that league must have been.


----------



## Ghostwriter

SocalPapa said:


> I know you are just a parent like me, but you've been the chief advocate for DPL on this forum for a while now and your need to address my question with "whataboutism" is telling.
> 
> Plus your statement is incorrect.  It wasn't SCDSL "teams" that left CSL, it was "clubs."  By contrast, the DPL clubs that were playing for SCDSL and CSL are still there.  They are just keeping their B teams out of league play, having them play a reduced number of fall games in a round robin format and calling it a "league."  The situations are not parallel.
> 
> Most of the DPL benefits you've cited appear to be benefits that come along with being a B team in a large club (good training, the chance to perhaps be promoted to the club's A team some day, playing in good tournaments, getting games videotaped, etc.).  Other benefits (being able to play at Silver Lakes each week) seem like detriments (there are no home/local games so there is increased travel).
> 
> The only clear benefit I see to clubs from playing in DPL specifically is that the lesser DPL teams are guaranteed the right to play against the good DPL teams and lose to their hearts content without the threat of demotion.  While wins/losses shouldn't necessarily be the top priority, our girls should be playing similarly-talented competition to the extent possible, especially at these older groups.  This is why the vast majority of club soccer leagues in this country allow less talented teams to be moved to a lower division, or promoted, as warranted.  But the structure of DPL doesn't permit that to happen.  There are some really good teams in DPL, but they are stuck, now and forever, playing whatever the other DPL clubs are able to throw at them.
> 
> If there is anything that ends up breaking DPL apart, my guess is it will be that.  At some point, for example, Legends might get tired of blowing out other DPL clubs all the time and will seek an arrangement that will give them a chance at more consistently strong competition.


DPL was designed as an answer to clubs that don't have both DA and ECNL team's. This offers players that didn't make a DA squad an alternative market that would offer the benefits you mentioned in your above post and be able to feel good staying with that club.  You can debate the success or lack of success of DPL's first year, but that is why it was formed.  DA is the top team in every club that has DA teams with the exception of one outliner. The start of this season ECNL clubs which had the top teams prior to this year had a distinct advantage in putting together their DA squads and selling those who didn't make it on a proven product ECNL.  Those DA clubs that didn't have ECNL to promote or offer had to come up with a product that would offer kids more than just CSL or SCDSL offers in hopes of retaining quality players in the DPL ranks.  This is the first year of DPL and some parents seem unhappy and others seem happy with the DPL product, I think in all fairness it will take several seasons to see how it works out.  Club soccer is a business and it sells a product you are the consumer find the product that works best for your daughter and hopefully you have created memories that will last a lifetime.


----------



## Justafan

Ghostwriter said:


> DPL was designed as an answer to clubs that don't have both DA and ECNL team's. This offers players that didn't make a DA squad an alternative market that would offer the benefits you mentioned in your above post and be able to feel good staying with that club.  You can debate the success or lack of success of DPL's first year, but that is why it was formed.  DA is the top team in every club that has DA teams with the exception of one outliner. The start of this season ECNL clubs which had the top teams prior to this year had a distinct advantage in putting together their DA squads and selling those who didn't make it on a proven product ECNL.  Those DA clubs that didn't have ECNL to promote or offer had to come up with a product that would offer kids more than just CSL or SCDSL offers in hopes of retaining quality players in the DPL ranks.  This is the first year of DPL and some parents seem unhappy and others seem happy with the DPL product, I think in all fairness it will take several seasons to see how it works out.  Club soccer is a business and it sells a product you are the consumer find the product that works best for your daughter and hopefully you have created memories that will last a lifetime.


Exactly, at least you admit that it was for business purposes and not for development.


----------



## Ghostwriter

Justafan said:


> Exactly, at least you admit that it was for business purposes and not for development.


DA, ECNL, DPL, SCDSL, CSL, Presidio, HS soccer, Rec Soccer, it's all a business.  As for development that is up to the paying customer to decide in all of those leagues.  Club soccer is a lot of things and each experience is unique to the player and family.  Just because DPL was created to offer a viable alternative for non ECNL DA clubs to retain quality players doesn't mean those players didn't develop.


----------



## GoWest

Ghostwriter said:


> DA, ECNL, DPL, SCDSL, CSL, Presidio, HS soccer, Rec Soccer, it's all a business.


Super Y League will be added to that list before long.

https://www.soccerwire.com/notes/super-y-league-announces-southern-california-expansion/


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I don't believe I need to address any of your concerns or comments.  I don't need to defend the formation of DPL.  I had nothing to do with it.  I have no control over whether DPL exists or doesn't.   And neither do any of you.   We can't control what has occurred in the past and its a waste of time even reading the endless comments about why DPL doesn't need to exist.  All each of us can do is make individual decisions on what is best for our own kids.   My only mission here is to share our personal experience with DPL in light of all the negativity.   If that makes me chief advocate, so be it.

My dd's previous team had blown up and we needed to make a decision on where to play.   Of the various options that were available for us to make (and DA was not one of them since she did not initially make a DA team) it was the one we chose.  I was concerned early on partially do to all of the negativity posted here.  I can only share our experience since which has been very positive.   The league was well run.  Game day was good with excellent fields, decent refs, good competition, good water stations and game filming (though that did not start until mid season).  Training was good and we had exposure to the DA coaches.   I saw our players develop and the end results were great for my kid.  

Yes, this all could have occurred in one league under Premier if it was 2009.  But it is 2018 and times change.  You need to change with them.


----------



## Justafan

Ghostwriter said:


> DA, ECNL, DPL, SCDSL, CSL, Presidio, HS soccer, Rec Soccer, it's all a business.  As for development that is up to the paying customer to decide in all of those leagues.  Club soccer is a lot of things and each experience is unique to the player and family.  Just because DPL was created to offer a viable alternative for non ECNL DA clubs to retain quality players doesn't mean those players didn't develop.


All true, just don’t sell it as development or as a unique league that is somehow going to work some magic with your kid that no other league can.  Most experienced posters here saw right through the sales pitch.  And yes it’s a business and clubs can make any sales pitch they want, I could care less, just don’t try to justify its formation.


----------



## glen_dandy

Simisoccerfan said:


> I don't believe I need to address any of your concerns or comments.  I don't need to defend the formation of DPL.  I had nothing to do with it.  I have no control over whether DPL exists or doesn't.   And neither do any of you.   We can't control what has occurred in the past and its a waste of time even reading the endless comments about why DPL doesn't need to exist.  All each of us can do is make individual decisions on what is best for our own kids.   My only mission here is to share our personal experience with DPL in light of all the negativity.   If that makes me chief advocate, so be it.
> 
> My dd's previous team had blown up and we needed to make a decision on where to play.   Of the various options that were available for us to make (and DA was not one of them since she did not initially make a DA team) it was the one we chose.  I was concerned early on partially do to all of the negativity posted here.  I can only share our experience since which has been very positive.   The league was well run.  Game day was good with excellent fields, decent refs, good competition, good water stations and game filming (though that did not start until mid season).  Training was good and we had exposure to the DA coaches.   I saw our players develop and the end results were great for my kid.
> 
> Yes, this all could have occurred in one league under Premier if it was 2009.  But it is 2018 and times change.  You need to change with them.


This echoes my daughter's experience with the DPL.  She got good coaching, played a lot, competition was the same as when she played in SCDSL, and if we had asked, she could have practiced with the DA team (alas, she wants to play in high school and has no college soccer aspirations).  We chose a club and a coach, not a league.


----------



## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> I don't believe I need to address any of your concerns or comments.  I don't need to defend the formation of DPL.  I had nothing to do with it.


Ecplicitly or implicitly, you have consistently defended its FORMATION, which is the only issue most of us have with DPL.  So that is the point.  I don’t doubt for a second any of the other ways DPL has been good for you and your family.  But like others have said, I bet it’s more of a function of the club, coach, team, and parents/kids than the league.  And that’s true regardless of the “league.”


----------



## Ghostwriter

Justafan said:


> All true, just don’t sell it as development or as a unique league that is somehow going to work some magic with your kid that no other league can.  Most experienced posters here saw right through the sales pitch.  And yes it’s a business and clubs can make any sales pitch they want, I could care less, just don’t try to justify its formation.


I haven't sold DPL to anyone,  I am curious though what would you have done if you were a DA club competing against a DA/ECNL club?


----------



## Justafan

Ghostwriter said:


> I haven't sold DPL to anyone,  I am curious though what would you have done if you were a DA club competing against a DA/ECNL club?


When ECNL was formed where were all the 2nd teams placed?  Didn’t they stay in the leagues they were already in?  For developments sake (i.e. strong teams playing against strong teams) stay where you’re at to avoid further dilution.


----------



## Ghostwriter

Justafan said:


> When ECNL was formed where were all the 2nd teams placed?  Didn’t they stay in the leagues they were already in?  For developments sake (i.e. strong teams playing against strong teams) stay where you’re at to avoid further dilution.


This is a different scenario the joint DA/ECNL clubs had a distinct advantage going into the first year of Academy over the DA clubs that were Non-Ecnl.  Doing nothing would have made those teams future less competitive as players would have sought ECNL team's over SCDSL or CSL team's.  This was a way in which those clubs could offer a product not on the same level of ECNL but on a level higher than the existing alternative.  DA with the combined age groups can lead to a lot of player movement and I imagine DPL was their answer to this potential problem.  I am not a defender of one league over another and hopefully each player finds their niche and enjoys their soccer experience.


----------



## Justafan

Ghostwriter said:


> This is a different scenario the joint DA/ECNL clubs had a distinct advantage going into the first year of Academy over the DA clubs that were Non-Ecnl.  Doing nothing would have made those teams future less competitive as players would have sought ECNL team's over SCDSL or CSL team's.  This was a way in which those clubs could offer a product. . .


Everything you just said here was is business related, i.e. trying to retain market share.  I don’t have a problem with it as long as you call it what it is.  

So no problem with anything you’ve said so far.


----------



## Justafan

Ghostwriter said:


> This was a way in which those clubs could offer a product not on the same level of ECNL but on a level higher than the existing alternative.


This is the problem.  You say you’re not a defender of any league but you just stated DPL is better than SCDSL, CSL, etc. with this statement.  Not only is that not factually true, it corroborates my argument that DPL apologists have bought into the sales pitch that DPL is somehow better than the other leagues.  And for the record, I believe SCDSL, CSL, and DPL  are all pretty comparable.  Thus, there was no need to create another comparable league.


----------



## Ghostwriter

Justafan said:


> This is the problem.  You say you’re not a defender of any league but you just stated DPL is better than SCDSL, CSL, etc. with this statement.  Not only is that not factually true, it corroborates my argument that DPL apologists have bought into the sales pitch that DPL is somehow better than the other leagues.  And for the record, I believe SCDSL, CSL, and DPL  are all pretty comparable.  Thus, there was no need to create another comparable league.


What I said was this was a way DA clubs without ECNL could offer a product to keep players in house that didn't make the DA team especially since DA has combined age groups.  I stated their intentions were to create a league and a platform to offer players an alternative to ECNL.  I guess I am a bit confused why this league is so upsetting to you?  The clubs that formed it saw a need to compete with an existing product ECNL that was superior to the status quo CSL and SCDSL and this was their answer. Just merely staying in CSL or SCDSL was obviously not the right direction for these clubs to compete against a proven ECNL product.  You can argue the reality of where that competition is and so on but your question was why form this league and that I answered.  Just for the record my daughter doesn't play in the DPL league.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Ghostwriter said:


> What I said was this was a way DA clubs without ECNL could offer a product to keep players in house that didn't make the DA team especially since DA has combined age groups.  I stated their intentions were to create a league and a platform to offer players an alternative to ECNL.  I guess I am a bit confused why this league is so upsetting to you?  The clubs that formed it saw a need to compete with an existing product ECNL that was superior to the status quo CSL and SCDSL and this was their answer. Just merely staying in CSL or SCDSL was obviously not the right direction for these clubs to compete against a proven ECNL product.  You can argue the reality of where that competition is and so on but your question was why form this league and that I answered.  Just for the record my daughter doesn't play in the DPL league.


Ghostwriter, I agree with you that as a business decision it made sense for the non-ENCL clubs to create something to compete with ECNL.  The problem that I personally have with the league is that is yet another closed league.  Closed leagues IMO don't help the game. I am sure people can and will argue that SCDSL was not needed as CSL was fine.  As a late comer to the party I only know what is happening now.  I would like to see more girls have a chance to play each other.


----------



## Striker17

Might all be moot. Rumor has been around awhile now that ECNL will make DA clubs choose as they are tired of an inferior product. 
Makes sense to me.


----------



## Ghostwriter

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Ghostwriter, I agree with you that as a business decision it made sense for the non-ENCL clubs to create something to compete with ECNL.  The problem that I personally have with the league is that is yet another closed league.  Closed leagues IMO don't help the game. I am sure people can and will argue that SCDSL was not needed as CSL was fine.  As a late comer to the party I only know what is happening now.  I would like to see more girls have a chance to play each other.


Yes as a closed league during season the DPL team's compete among themselves.  This allows them to control the game environment from filming the matches, site in which they play, etc. At tournaments or showcases they compete among everyone I believe just like ECNL which during season plays in a closed league as well.  I get you would prefer an open league where the best teams could fight it out regardless of the club or title. Unfortunately that league doesn't exist as nothing out there could compete with ECNL so that is why these clubs created DPL. Look at the marketing over the years before Girls DA or DPL you had ECNL, ECNL Reserve, EGSL, some clubs even named some of their flight 1 SCDSL team's College world tour team etc.  In many cases these were the club's 3rd or 4th teams in an age group. This is the reality we live in so parents and players can feel good about the title of their team. Marketing keeping parents happy and players happy is part of the paid experience. Club soccer had moved in this direction long before the creation of DPL.  In the end when you navigate through all the options as a player and parent it comes down to finding a good coach, a team that fits your daughters level, an environment she can grow in and develop as a player.


----------



## Justafan

Ghostwriter said:


> This is the reality we live in so parents and players can feel good about the title of their team. Marketing keeping parents happy and players happy is part of the paid experience. Club soccer had moved in this direction long before the creation of DPL.


Yes, this is the real reason it was created.


----------



## Justafan

Ghostwriter said:


> The clubs that formed it saw a need to compete with an existing product ECNL that was superior to the status quo CSL and SCDSL and this was their answer. Just merely staying in CSL or SCDSL was obviously not the right direction for these clubs to compete against a proven ECNL product.


But it was sold as this.  The problem is that people are buying this and talking as if it is assumed that DPL is superior to these other leagues.  Just because you repeat it 100 times doesn't make it true.  I'm just calling it out every time I see it.


----------



## Striker17

And if ECNL makes clubs choose then all the B teams (minus the Bakers) are then placed in either the DPL league or yet another league of the powers that be and the clubs like Sharks will stay ECNL


----------



## Striker17

Justafan said:


> But it was sold as this.  The problem is that people are buying this and talking as if it is assumed that DPL is superior to these other leagues.  Just because you repeat it 100 times doesn't make it true.  I'm just calling it out every time I see it.


And neither was ECNL after DA came with exception of Bakers which is why ECNL is apparently forcing the clubs hands now. 
They are not thrilled with their product. 
Time will tell though


----------



## SocalPapa

Ghostwriter said:


> What I said was this was a way DA clubs without ECNL could offer a product to keep players in house that didn't make the DA team especially since DA has combined age groups.  I stated their intentions were to create a league and a platform to offer players an alternative to ECNL.  I guess I am a bit confused why this league is so upsetting to you?  The clubs that formed it saw a need to compete with an existing product ECNL that was superior to the status quo CSL and SCDSL and this was their answer. Just merely staying in CSL or SCDSL was obviously not the right direction for these clubs to compete against a proven ECNL product.  You can argue the reality of where that competition is and so on but your question was why form this league and that I answered.  Just for the record my daughter doesn't play in the DPL league.


It seems you are saying the intention of the 9 So Cal DA/DPL clubs in forming DPL was to help put a better DA product on the field.  If that's true, then DPL doesn't seem to have served its purpose.  Based on the goal differential analysis I did earlier (in a separate thread), the median DA ranking of the 4 DA/ECNL clubs in So Cal is 15.5 (out of 69 DA clubs nationally).  By comparison the median DA ranking of the 9 So Cal DA/DPL clubs is 44 (49 if you take out Legends and Beach).  Further, there are 46 DA clubs in the country that have neither ECNL nor DPL teams, including 3 of the top 10.  So it is not like it was impossible for the DA/DPL clubs to operate or succeed without placing their B teams in a closed league.

This is not a matter of just picking which league works best for my daughter's situation.  Imagine if your cable company (the only one that serviced your area) suddenly informed you they would be splitting their channel line up into two different packages (one with the odd numbered channels and the other with the even number channels).  And imagine if they forced you to pick one or the other (you couldn't chose both).  Wouldn't you be upset that you no longer had access to all your favorite channels?  Maybe one package would be somewhat better or worse for your situation, but you are still worse overall. 

This is why, as a consumer of club soccer services, the formation of DPL upsets me so much (and why it should upset the parents of the DPL clubs too).

Of course, this wouldn't be as much of a problem if all the best non-DA/ECNL players suddenly moved to DPL.  But I see no indication that happened or has any prospect of happening.  

As others have pointed out, this is a business.  It appears the So Cal clubs that were lucky enough to be granted a DA franchise rushed to gain the maximum competitive advantage from that fortuitous development and decided (wrongly in my view) that colluding to form DPL was the best way to do that.  They were also likely enticed by the fact that there are so many DA clubs in such close proximity here in So Cal that is was actually possible to do something like this.

As a business executive myself, I would have taken a different tact.  I would have focused on giving my customers the best product possible to suit their needs.  And I would have done that first and foremost by making the quality of my new flagship product (DA) as high as possible.  I would also offer a range of complementary products (teams) that fit the specific needs of a range of other customers.  And in so doing I'd want each of those teams (B, C, etc.) to be placed at the optimal level of competitive play for my customers.   Further, I would have recognized that locking my secondary product (team) into a given set of opponents would be a detriment to my customers and, ultimately, a competitive disadvantage.

When you think about ECNL and DA, they are closed leagues but they actually have a promotion and demotion feature because clubs can be added or cut from the league depending on performance.  But with DPL presumably there is no way to add or cut teams unless something happens with that club's DA teams (different teams in a different league).

This may be a business, but in my view the clubs are not being managed as a good business should be.  As a customer, I hope for something better.


----------



## Ghostwriter

SocalPapa said:


> It seems you are saying the intention of the 9 So Cal DA/DPL clubs in forming DPL was to help put a better DA product on the field.  If that's true, then DPL doesn't seem to have served its purpose.  Based on the goal differential analysis I did earlier (in a separate thread), the median DA ranking of the 4 DA/ECNL clubs in So Cal is 15.5 (out of 69 DA clubs nationally).  By comparison the median DA ranking of the 9 So Cal DA/DPL clubs is 44 (49 if you take out Legends and Beach).  Further, there are 46 DA clubs in the country that have neither ECNL nor DPL teams, including 3 of the top 10.  So it is not like it was impossible for the DA/DPL clubs to operate or succeed without placing their B teams in a closed league.
> 
> This is not a matter of just picking which league works best for my daughter's situation.  Imagine if your cable company (the only one that serviced your area) suddenly informed you they would be splitting their channel line up into two different packages (one with the odd numbered channels and the other with the even number channels).  And imagine if they forced you to pick one or the other (you couldn't chose both).  Wouldn't you be upset that you no longer had access to all your favorite channels?  Maybe one package would be somewhat better or worse for your situation, but you are still worse overall.
> 
> This is why, as a consumer of club soccer services, the formation of DPL upsets me so much (and why it should upset the parents of the DPL clubs too).
> 
> Of course, this wouldn't be as much of a problem if all the best non-DA/ECNL players suddenly moved to DPL.  But I see no indication that happened or has any prospect of happening.
> 
> As others have pointed out, this is a business.  It appears the So Cal clubs that were lucky enough to be granted a DA franchise rushed to gain the maximum competitive advantage from that fortuitous development and decided (wrongly in my view) that colluding to form DPL was the best way to do that.  They were also likely enticed by the fact that there are so many DA clubs in such close proximity here in So Cal that is was actually possible to do something like this.
> 
> As a business executive myself, I would have taken a different tact.  I would have focused on giving my customers the best product possible to suit their needs.  And I would have done that first and foremost by making the quality of my new flagship product (DA) as high as possible.  I would also offer a range of complementary products (teams) that fit the specific needs of a range of other customers.  And in so doing I'd want each of those teams (B, C, etc.) to be placed at the optimal level of competitive play for my customers.   Further, I would have recognized that locking my secondary product (team) into a given set of opponents would be a detriment to my customers and, ultimately, a competitive disadvantage.
> 
> When you think about ECNL and DA, they are closed leagues but they actually have a promotion and demotion feature because clubs can be added or cut from the league depending on performance.  But with DPL presumably there is no way to add or cut teams unless something happens with that club's DA teams (different teams in a different league).
> 
> This may be a business, but in my view the clubs are not being managed as a good business should be.  As a customer, I hope for something better.


I agree that DPL isn t equal to ECNL this year.  I agree that DA/ECNL clubs had a huge advantage this year over DA/DPL clubs.  That was expected for almost a generation ECNL has been the standard bearer in Girls Club Soccer.  So all the ECNL team's had depth beyond that of any other Non-Ecnl club.  Beach and Legends were the closes to the ECNL clubs.  I don't look at DPL as a failed program after one fall season in contrary the mere fact people are talking about it is a win.  I think it will take years to see how this all plays out.  Entering this past season DA and ECNL were looked at as equals but in reality DA has moved ahead of ECNL.  ECNL is clearly above DPL but DPL has seperated themselves from SCDSL and CSL. If you look at a DA/ECNL club their A team is DA, their B team is ECNL, and their C team is their top team in SCDSL. If DA didn't come up with DPL they would be competing and selling their B team competing against DA/ECNL clubs C team.  From a competitive stance that would be counterproductive to try and close the gap that naturally existed coming into this year.


----------



## Dummy

Ghostwriter said:


> I agree that DPL isn t equal to ECNL this year.  I agree that DA/ECNL clubs had a huge advantage this year over DA/DPL clubs.  That was expected for almost a generation ECNL has been the standard bearer in Girls Club Soccer.  So all the ECNL team's had depth beyond that of any other Non-Ecnl club.  Beach and Legends were the closes to the ECNL clubs.  I don't look at DPL as a failed program after one fall season in contrary the mere fact people are talking about it is a win.  I think it will take years to see how this all plays out.  Entering this past season DA and ECNL were looked at as equals but in reality DA has moved ahead of ECNL.  ECNL is clearly above DPL but DPL has seperated themselves from SCDSL and CSL. If you look at a DA/ECNL club their A team is DA, their B team is ECNL, and their C team is their top team in SCDSL. If DA didn't come up with DPL they would be competing and selling their B team competing against DA/ECNL clubs C team.  From a competitive stance that would be counterproductive to try and close the gap that naturally existed coming into this year.


What about teams from clubs that are not in DA or ECNL?  There are enough age groups in the California Regional League where teams from these clubs seem to be consistently beating DPL teams.  My guess is that the better DPL clubs will continue to seek out this competition.  People tend to argue the most about the things that matter least, which is why this SCDSL v. DPL v. CSL continues to generate posts (there is no big difference in level of play).


----------



## SocalPapa

Ghostwriter said:


> I agree that DPL isn t equal to ECNL this year.  I agree that DA/ECNL clubs had a huge advantage this year over DA/DPL clubs.  That was expected for almost a generation ECNL has been the standard bearer in Girls Club Soccer.  So all the ECNL team's had depth beyond that of any other Non-Ecnl club.  Beach and Legends were the closes to the ECNL clubs.  I don't look at DPL as a failed program after one fall season in contrary the mere fact people are talking about it is a win.  I think it will take years to see how this all plays out.  Entering this past season DA and ECNL were looked at as equals but in reality DA has moved ahead of ECNL.  ECNL is clearly above DPL but DPL has seperated themselves from SCDSL and CSL. If you look at a DA/ECNL club their A team is DA, their B team is ECNL, and their C team is their top team in SCDSL. If DA didn't come up with DPL they would be competing and selling their B team competing against DA/ECNL clubs C team.  From a competitive stance that would be counterproductive to try and close the gap that naturally existed coming into this year.


Three DA/DPL clubs were in ECNL the season prior to this year.  They have been average so far in DA (much less competitive than even Beach or Legends).  So ECNL experience, by itself, doesn't seem to give a club that big of a competitive advantage.

On the other hand the 4 So Cal DA/ECNL clubs were not just in ECNL last year, they had consistently been among the top clubs in ECNL nationally.  They were good then and they are good now (and were good before ECNL was formed in 2009).

Further, there are no DA/ECNL clubs in CSL, so if the CSL clubs moved their B teams back to CSL (and they made Premier) they would face a slate of DA club B teams and other clubs' A teams.  

On the other hand, it's true that the dual DA/ECNL clubs (Slammers, So Cal Blues, and Surf/WC) have C teams in SCDSL.  So a DA club's B team playing SCDSL might have up to 4 of its 10 league games against DA/ECNL "C" teams.  I'm not sure that carries the ignominy you attribute to it.  But failing to make Champions might.

P.S. DA didn't come up with DPL.  The DPL member clubs did.  It has no affiliation with DA.


----------



## Monkey

SocalPapa said:


> Three DA/DPL clubs were in ECNL the season prior to this year.  They have been average so far in DA (much less competitive than even Beach or Legends).  So ECNL experience, by itself, doesn't seem to give a club that big of a competitive advantage.
> 
> On the other hand the 4 So Cal DA/ECNL clubs were not just in ECNL last year, they had consistently been among the top clubs in ECNL nationally.  They were good then and they are good now (and were good before ECNL was formed in 2009).
> 
> Further, there are no DA/ECNL clubs in CSL, so if the CSL clubs moved their B teams back to CSL (and they made Premier) they would face a slate of DA club B teams and other clubs' A teams.
> 
> On the other hand, it's true that the dual DA/ECNL clubs (Slammers, So Cal Blues, and Surf/WC) have C teams in SCDSL.  So a DA club's B team playing SCDSL might have up to 4 of its 10 league games against DA/ECNL "C" teams.  I'm not sure that carries the ignominy you attribute to it.  But failing to make Champions might.
> 
> P.S. DA didn't come up with DPL.  The DPL member clubs did.  It has no affiliation with DA.


I just wish the DPL players and parents stop calling it DA.  It is nauseating to have to continually explain to parents that they bought a load of crap.


----------



## Justafan

Ghostwriter said:


> ECNL is clearly above DPL but DPL has seperated themselves from SCDSL and CSL


There you go again, you have to slip in one of these lines in every post.  It’s not going to work.  As pointed out above, the FACTS simply don’t back you up. Your attempt at logic, i.e.  “well if C teams play in SCDSL they can’t possibly be better than B teams in DPL,. . . .” doesn’t work because you fail to take into account all the variables.  

Ghost, seriously, how long have you been around?  My dd’s play in SCDSL (after playing CSL last year) and I would not argue that that SCDSL is better than DPL or CSL.  It’s pretty much all the same sh*#%t.  

The way I see it, you have about 2-4 elite teams in each age group (definitely DA teams here) followed by 10-15 excellent teams (mostly rest of DA, mid to top ECNL, and maybe a top DPL, CSL, or SCDSL), followed by about 20-25 very good teams (lowest DA, mid to low ECNL, & top DPL, SCDSL, CSL).  

The difference between the groups, up or down, is not much and on any given day a lower group team can beat a higher one (almost impossible to beat a team two levels higher).  

The difference within the groups is minimal, that’s why I think it’s useless to try and argue which league is better.  For the most part, the top teams from DPL, SCDSL, and CSL are in the “very good” team category.  Pretty much the same or similar level imo.


----------



## Ghostwriter

Honestly I can care less about DPL, ECNL, SCDSL, CSL, DA, CRL. My perspective wasn't who had better team's it was about club marketing and the existing hierarchy in Girls Club Soccer.  When I referenced the hierarchy of DA, ECNL, DPL, SCDSL, and CSL it wasn't on individual team's, age groups, or who's team is better. It was purely on a marketing level and perception. None of this matters and obvisouly there is some deep seeded angst by some posters in regards to this topic. I tried turning on a light bulb in a dark room only to find out the light switch doesn't work.


----------



## Justafan

Then why didn’t you say so.  If you had said, “DPL has separated themselves, perception wise, from SCDSL and CSL” we wouldn’t be having this conversation.  I can’t control people’s perception.  They can perceive what they want to perceive.

However, you didn’t qualify your statement, you said it as if it was a fact.  That’s the one and only issue I have.  Just because clubs and parents say it is so doesn’t make it so.


----------



## Justafan

Ghostwriter said:


> When I referenced the hierarchy of DA, ECNL, DPL, SCDSL, and CSL it. . . was purely on a marketing level and perception.


This is the quote I am referring to.


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## broshark

To Striker's point, I've heard of clubs not currently ECNL members suggesting that they hope to be joining the league next year (2019).  

I'd imagine that if ECNL boots clubs that also have DA, those clubs will move their 2nd team to DPL as well (so in SD, Surf ECNL becomes Surf DPL, while Sharks and perhaps a new club or two are ECNL).


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I think all of you are arguing over a topic that is silly.  Each and every league has the same right to exist.  None of us had anything to do with the formation of any of these leagues.   We are only arguing over who plays who in 9 or 10 games when most teams play 40 to 50 games in a year or more.  If DPL didn't exist some of the CSL parents would be complaining why they are not Premier.  Some of the SCDSL parents would be complaining why they would not be Flight #1 (oops I meant in the Champions Division since almost any team can be flight 1).   And yes this includes some of the DPL teams that would not be in Premier or Champions League.   While the very best teams are no longer beating each other up over the short league schedule, the side benefit is that more teams have had a chance to move up to their top of their leagues and play better competition.   All three leagues will get a chance to prove themselves when they play each other in National Cup anyway.

I can also tell you that while I never had the chance to witness ECNL in the past, the quality of play I have seen in my limited exposure to the DA so far beyond anything in DPL, SCDSL or CSL.


----------



## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> I think all of you are arguing over a topic that is silly.


It only started when posters started claiming, ecplicitly or implicitly, that DPL was a superior league.  Your issue should be with them.


----------



## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> I can also tell you that while I never had the chance to witness ECNL in the past, the quality of play I have seen in my limited exposure to the DA so far beyond anything in DPL, SCDSL or CSL.


As expected. Nobody in their right mind can argue that.


----------



## Striker17

Monkey said:


> I just wish the DPL players and parents stop calling it DA.  It is nauseating to have to continually explain to parents that they bought a load of crap.


Now the newly minted DP to DA crowd is especially how shall we say "cocky"
Do these people not know we see their league?!


----------



## Fact

Striker17 said:


> And if ECNL makes clubs choose then all the B teams (minus the Bakers) are then placed in either the DPL league or yet another league of the powers that be and the clubs like Sharks will stay ECNL


When does ECNL announce new clubs?  I assume that IF they were going to make a club choose, they would do it prior to deciding how many and where new clubs are needed.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Justafan said:


> It only started when posters started claiming, ecplicitly or implicitly, that DPL was a superior league.  Your issue should be with them.


Please learn how to spell "explicitly" (lol).  Also you seem to have forgotten how this topic started.   This thread started as a good discussion about schedules and then usual agitators started dumping on DPL.


----------



## Striker17

See I am hearing such different takes. I know there is something within the week.


----------



## Fact

Striker17 said:


> Now the newly minted DP to DA crowd is especially how shall we say "cocky"
> Do these people not know we see their league?!


Please explain. Not sure what you are saying.


----------



## Fact

Striker17 said:


> See I am hearing such different takes. I know there is something within the week.


???? I think you had too much to drink at lunch.  I am losing you man.


----------



## Striker17

Meeting- there is a meeting. 
I think this time they are serious about making clubs choose because the team quality has gone down so much. I know of only two clubs in SD that applied apparently. I am sure they would be more. 
All hypothetical. For every person who claims someone in Richmond said no more DA and ECNL some alt club guy gets in here and says no no no. 
Also the DA has supposedly yet to fully decide about the 03 age pure. It was dual band except the frontier division and now suddenly it may be age pure. If they do that DA retains control anyway.


----------



## Fact

Striker17 said:


> Meeting- there is a meeting.
> I think this time they are serious about making clubs choose because the team quality has gone down so much. I know of only two clubs in SD that applied apparently. I am sure they would be more.
> All hypothetical. For every person who claims someone in Richmond said no more DA and ECNL some alt club guy gets in here and says no no no.
> Also the DA has supposedly yet to fully decide about the 03 age pure. It was dual band except the frontier division and now suddenly it may be age pure. If they do that DA retains control anyway.


Thanks.  I had just looked up the meeting date. You are right.


----------



## Striker17

Yep- if US Soccer decides to bend on the Age pure 03 then anything ECNL does wont matter anyway. 
Right now I think they feel slightly empowered because of the bulk of 03 talent not having a home unless they wanted to stay in DPL. Let's face it ECNL much more attractive! 
If US soccer says ha ha just joking ECNL loses
For everyone not following:
http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2017/09/07/ecnl-coaching-symposium-announced-for-2018-in-san-diego/


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## Simisoccerfan

ECNL is only more attractive than DPL, SDCSL, or CSL if you happen to live in the limited area they serve.  Otherwise its not a sane option.


----------



## chargerfan

Simisoccerfan said:


> ECNL is only more attractive than DPL, SDCSL, or CSL if you happen to live in the limited area they serve.  Otherwise its not a sane option.


ECNL is more attractive than the other options any way you slice it


----------



## Striker17

Simisoccerfan said:


> ECNL is only more attractive than DPL, SDCSL, or CSL if you happen to live in the limited area they serve.  Otherwise its not a sane option.


I think it will change- I think you have to be getting yours soon. It's getting a little silly at this point!


----------



## chargerfan

chargerfan said:


> ECNL is more attractive than the other options any way you slice it


Let me modify my statement. This is only if your DDs goal is to play college soccer. Which girls get more looks from college coaches, DPL or ECNL players?


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## Simisoccerfan

Agree.  ECNL should place a club in the San Gabriel Valley, one on the West Side and one North of Downtown LA.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

chargerfan said:


> Let me modify my statement. This is only if your DDs goal is to play college soccer. Which girls get more looks from college coaches, DPL or ECNL players?


I agree that ECNL is a much better platform for college exposure.  My comment was obviously about drive time eliminating the ECNL option for a huge section of Southern California.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> I can also tell you that while I never had the chance to witness ECNL in the past, the quality of play I have seen in my limited exposure to the DA so far beyond anything in DPL, SCDSL or CSL.


I have witnessed many ECNL games when it was the only closed national league and from the couple GDA games that I have witnessed the current version is just watered down.  Now instead of 8 teams (plus Beach and Carlsbad) that are dividing up the top talent you now have almost twice that amount.  In the prior incarnation of ECNL you would see maybe one or two weaker teams in the Southwest region and those teams still had a few elite players on them.  Now there are a couple of teams with a higher number of elite players on it and most have only a couple of elite players on them.

The number of elite players hasn't changed significantly.  The number of "elite" teams has only multiplied.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Justafan said:


> As expected. Nobody in their right mind can argue that.


SCDSL was a league created for the "B" through "Z" teams of the ECNL clubs.  CSL has been a hollow shell since the ECNL clubs pulled out.  I would expect GDA to be better than that.  What the heck is DPL?


----------



## chargerfan

Simisoccerfan said:


> I agree that ECNL is a much better platform for college exposure.  My comment was obviously about drive time eliminating the ECNL option for a huge section of Southern California.


I somehow missed your obvious point. My brain is fried from all of GoldenFjord’s memes. You’re right about ecnl needing to expand in that area.


----------



## Kicker4Life

chargerfan said:


> ECNL is more attractive than the other options any way you slice it


Easy to say coming from an area saturated with ECNL options.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

MAP, DPL is similar to SCDSL.  Whether it is needed or not it was created as a league for the B teams of the DA clubs that do not also offer ECNL.


----------



## Ghostwriter

ECNL loss the war with DA but they could survive as the best 2nd tier league in the nation and market it as an alternative to DA for kids who want to play HS sports.  If I were ECNL I would offer ECNL to all DA clubs and hope DA stays with combined age groups. This way ECNL would always be strong on the younger year of the DA combined age groups.  This would eliminate the need for DPL and you could offer the top players and those willing to sacarfice 4 nights a week DA and the very good players who are on the younger side of the combined DA age groups and those that want to play HS sports ECNL. Could be a win win situation.


----------



## Monkey

Is the Y league the league in Northern California?  What happens if and when those leagues try to expand here?


----------



## Monkey

Simisoccerfan said:


> MAP, DPL is similar to SCDSL.  Whether it is needed or not it was created as a league for the B teams of the DA clubs that do not also offer ECNL.


Wrong it was created so that players that do not make the DA team can be manipulated into thinking they are special too and have just as many college opportunities as DA players.  Marketing!


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Justafan, and just to prove my point about agitators Monkey goes and opens his big mouth.  Lol


----------



## Monkey

Simisoccerfan said:


> Justafan, and just to prove my point about agitators Monkey goes and opens his big mouth.  Lol


2 of the 3 DOCs that started DPL are in San Diego.  At their DA meetings DA 2 was all the rage.  They said it was part of the DA program and provided a pathway for all players to DA since they were going to get the same training, special showcases etc.  Great if all the DPL teams got into the Players Showcase (I have not checked) but that does not mean the D1 coaches that are watching  the DA teams will be watching.  However, a lot of DPL parents and players have been sold that this is the case. They go around claiming that they are in DA and don't understand when I tell them otherwise because they have been sold this crap and want to believe it is true.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Monkey said:


> 2 of the 3 DOCs that started DPL are in San Diego.  At their DA meetings DA 2 was all the rage.  They said it was part of the DA program and provided a pathway for all players to DA since they were going to get the same training, special showcases etc.  Great if all the DPL teams got into the Players Showcase (I have not checked) but that does not mean the D1 coaches that are watching  the DA teams will be watching.  However, a lot of DPL parents and players have been sold that this is the case. They go around claiming that they are in DA and don't understand when I tell them otherwise because they have been sold this crap and want to believe it is true.


Understand but that’s not me.  I live in Ventura Co where besides DA, DPL was the next best option since there is no ECNL nor strong teams in other leagues.  No one is under the illusion that we are part of the DA even though the DA coaches are also the DPL coaches. I do think that many of the DPL players will find a home at D2 schools and below.  The same as CSL and SCDSL players.  Our DPL team was lucky to attract a dozen coaches a game (a few were D1) but our DA games were getting well over 50 coaches a game (90%D1).  The difference in attention is insane.  

The one thing it did for my dd was create a path to the DA as it did for a couple other girls in our club.  I know you will say that the same path would have existed without DPL if we were in the club.  But the reality is we probably would not have joined the club.   So the creation of DPL did create the opportunity for her talent to get noticed.


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## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> I think all of you are arguing over a topic that is silly.  Each and every league has the same right to exist.  None of us had anything to do with the formation of any of these leagues.   We are only arguing over who plays who in 9 or 10 games when most teams play 40 to 50 games in a year or more.


I think you unintentionally hit the nail on the head there Simi.  You are right.  DPL's fall league games are indistinguishable from its other games.  That is because DPL is really just a tournament and not a true league.  Spots are just guaranteed in the DPL tournament for a certain set of teams based solely on the status of their sister teams.

They have every right to set things up that way.  And it's not that unique when it comes to spring "leagues" like EGSL.  But in doing so DPL shouldn't claim to be an actual league.

In my mind what separates a true league from a tournament is a commitment among the participating clubs to organize teams (every season) according to their level so, as players grow up in the club soccer system, they can consistently compete against like-talented players/teams (steel sharpening steel or bronze sharpening bronze, as the case may be).  Tournaments may fortuitously end with some good matchups from time to time but they serve a very different function than leagues.

To be fair, DPL is a natural (if extreme) extension of the trend started with ECNL.  ECNL isn't a true league either.  While it has promotion/relegation, all ECNL age group teams for a club are relegated or promoted together, not individual teams.  But that was tolerated because ECNL was formed as the top-level national league so there was still pretty good matching of talent.

But now we have DA too.  So there is a second top-level national league (made up mostly of what had been 2nd tier clubs).  But again people were willing to accept it because it was what US Soccer wanted and was supposed to have higher level coaching and better training than ECNL.

But that wasn't enough I guess.  Here in So Cal we've had a third non-league foisted upon us.  DPL has all the flaws of DA/ECNL, plus: 1) it has no relegation or promotion _whatsoever _based on the quality of the teams that actually play in the league, 2) it's not a national league, and 3) it has no claim to having any top teams.

I think people were tolerant of closed leagues for teams that had a legitimate claim to be top teams (ECNL and then DA), but DPL teams fully admit they are not the top (they are 100% reserve teams for their DA teams).  So there is no clear reason to give DPL a pass on this.

You can say, what about ECNL?  Aren't the ECNL teams second teams now?  Well, some are.  14 of the 84 ECNL clubs are also DA clubs and most (but not all) of those clubs try to put their better talent on their DA teams.   But it sounds like those few exceptions may change very soon as dual clubs may no longer be allowed.

I understand the prior desire to allow dual clubs and keep the strongest clubs in ECNL.  But it's hard to hold yourself out as a parallel top national league if those same clubs are ranking ECNL as inferior to DA.

In my view ECNL is better off letting the dual clubs go.  It will be painful in the short term, but over the long term I think it's their best opportunity to draw the talent necessary to sustain themselves as a parallel top league with different rules (as opposed to a JV league).

And if ECNL does end up jettisoning the dual clubs, other changes would surely follow.  Perhaps quite good ones:

One option would be for the remaining So Cal ECNL clubs to band together to play in CSL Premier, similar to what was proposed before the CSL/SCDSL schism.  The ECNL teams might play their regular ECNL games against each other (with CSL crediting those games as if they had been CSL Premier league games).  Then the ECNL teams would play additional games, as needed, against any non-ECNL teams (e.g., Fullerton Rangers or BYSC) that happen to make CSL Premier as well.  That might be enough to convince Legends and Eagles to take their DA reserve teams out of DPL and return to Premier.  Better to be in a league with a mix of ECNL and other exceptional teams than all reserve teams.

Then what happens to SCDSL?   Would the four former dual club's ECNL rosters really want to jump to DPL?   Probably not, especially with CSL's Premier division gaining newfound prestige.  The SCDSL clubs might worry their league as a whole would start to be considered inferior to CSL.

Perhaps best then to move everyone to SCDSL Champions/Flight 1.  Voila, ECNL survives, CSL and SCDSL become stronger, and we get better matchups up and down all the talent levels.  DA remains an outlier, serving as a special opportunity for exceptionally talented girls who want to dedicate themselves to soccer above all else.

In any event, as you can see, this is more than a matter of scheduling a few games out of the year or figuring out how many leagues there should be.  It goes to the issue of how our girls are going to be developed here and how the top tiers of teams will be matched up.

We have a precious commodity here in So Cal - a large concentration of talented and well-trained players who live within a reasonable driving distance of each other.  It would be a shame if we squandered that by continuing to let the clubs Balkanize things.  One more closed league and our girls might as well be playing for a local club in Nebraska.


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## Simisoccerfan

SocalPapa,

First of all huge praise to you for the single longest post I can remember seeing. Also your proposed ideal league structure sounds great but too bad it will never happen.  It’s much more likely to see more new leagues.  Also nice job with creating your own definition of a league though by any common definition DPL is a league not a tournament.


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## Zvezdas

Socal Papa please refrain from using the term "balkanize" out of respect to all ex-Yugoslav members of this board! Thanks


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## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> SocalPapa,
> 
> First of all huge praise to you for the single longest post I can remember seeing. Also your proposed ideal league structure sounds great but too bad it will never happen.  It’s much more likely to see more new leagues.  Also nice job with creating your own definition of a league though by any common definition DPL is a league not a tournament.


I didn't create any definitions.  

Club soccer in the US has traditionally followed the so-called "league system".  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_league   A league system allows promotion or relegation among a hierarchy of competitiveness (divisions). 

As I explained, DA and ECNL do not follow the league system.  They follow a closed model with the same teams playing each year (similar to most of the top US professional sports leagues).  But both DA and ECNL are also both top-level national, year-round circuits, so the fact that they are closed is accepted without much complaint.

DPL is an outlier.  It doesn't follow the league system (promotion/relegation), yet is local with a limited amount of games over a limited time period.  Further, qualification to participate in DPL is not based on the team itself, but on the status of a sister team.  In that respect it seems indistinguishable to me from spring tournaments such as EGSL.

In any event, no matter whether we call it a "local closed league" or "tournament", the point is DPL in not just another league.  It is structurally (and fundamentally) different from other existing club soccer leagues in Southern California.  

SCDSL and CSL may have differences in how teams are relegated or promoted, but both accept that team relegation and promotion are important to player development.  DPL's innovation, if any, is its determination that as of U14 the traditional league system is wholly unnecessary for player development, even for players that are not on top teams.  Maybe that's the case.  Personally, I don't believe so.  But there are many many people who are smarter and more experienced than me involved in these decisions, so we will see how it shakes out.


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## Kicker4Life

SocalPapa said:


> I didn't create any definitions.
> 
> Club soccer in the US has traditionally followed the so-called "league system".  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_league   A league system allows promotion or relegation among a hierarchy of competitiveness (divisions).
> 
> As I explained, DA and ECNL do not follow the league system.  They follow a closed model with the same teams playing each year (similar to most of the top US professional sports leagues).  But both DA and ECNL are also both top-level national, year-round circuits, so the fact that they are closed is accepted without much complaint.
> 
> DPL is an outlier.  It doesn't follow the league system (promotion/relegation), yet is local with a limited amount of games over a limited time period.  Further, qualification to participate in DPL is not based on the team itself, but on the status of a sister team.  In that respect it seems indistinguishable to me from spring tournaments such as EGSL.
> 
> In any event, no matter whether we call it a "local closed league" or "tournament", the point is DPL in not just another league.  It is structurally (and fundamentally) different from other existing club soccer leagues in Southern California.
> 
> SCDSL and CSL may have differences in how teams are relegated or promoted, but both accept that team relegation and promotion are important to player development.  DPL's innovation, if any, is its determination that as of U14 the traditional league system is wholly unnecessary for player development, even for players that are not on top teams.  Maybe that's the case.  Personally, I don't believe so.  But there are many many people who are smarter and more experienced than me involved in these decisions, so we will see how it shakes out.


There is no relegation or promotion in SCDSL. Each season the DOC’s apply for the level of play don’t they?


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## SocalPapa

Kicker4Life said:


> There is no relegation or promotion in SCDSL. Each season the DOC’s apply for the level of play don’t they?


There is promotion and relegation in both CSL and SCDSL.  The difference is that in promoting and relegating teams CSL relies first (but not solely) on placement in league standings the prior year, while SCDSL relies first (but not solely) on the recommendations of each club's DOC.

Specifically, the CSL rules state:

"It is the intent of the CSL Board of Directors to promote all first (1st) place bracket winners and to consider relegating two (2) teams out of each bracket from the prior season. However, the CSL Board may, in its sole discretion, refuse to promote or relegate teams out of a particular bracket if, in the opinion of the CSL Board, such promotion or relegation will not provide the best competition or meet the objectives of the gaming circuit."

(The CSL rules also allow the Board to promote or relegate teams other than the 1st place team (or last two placed teams) and to move teams more than 1 bracket in a single year.)

SCDSL rules state:

"Team placement will be made by recommendation of Club Director of Coaching and reviewed by the Flight Review Committee comprised of the Technical Committee and various other volunteer representatives from SCDSL member clubs. Clubs found to be mis-flighting teams from season to season will be subject to review by the Technical Committee and measures may be taken by said Committee to manage and/or approve the flighting of the teams of the violating club for future seasons."

(The SCDSL rules further provide that Champions is to be made up of the "top 11 teams in the birth year".)

DPL has no promotion or relegation whatsoever as it has only one bracket.


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## Simisoccerfan

There is no promotion or relagation in the NFL (National Football *League*) which is also closed and does allow anyone to just join.  No one argues it should be called the NFT.


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## Kicker4Life

SocalPapa said:


> SCDSL rules state:
> 
> "Team placement will be made by recommendation of Club Director of Coaching and reviewed by the Flight Review Committee comprised of the Technical Committee and various other volunteer representatives from SCDSL member clubs. Clubs found to be mis-flighting teams from season to season will be subject to review by the Technical Committee and measures may be taken by said Committee to manage and/or approve the flighting of the teams of the violating club for future seasons."
> 
> (The SCDSL rules further provide that Champions is to be made up of the "top 11 teams in the birth year".)
> 
> DPL has no promotion or relegation whatsoever as it has only one bracket.


How is that Promotion/Relegation?  Your point on Champions Division is well taken but that is all within a single Flight and only u13 and above. 

I’m not defending DPL, I actually agree with you there!


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## Kicker4Life

Simisoccerfan said:


> There is no promotion or relagation in the NFL (National Football *League*) which is also closed and does allow anyone to just join.  No one argues it should be called the NFT.


Or NBA, NHL, MLS, MLB etc....


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## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> There is no promotion or relagation in the NFL (National Football *League*) which is also closed and does allow anyone to just join.  No one argues it should be called the NFT.


Of course.  And I specifically mentioned that in my post.  I said that a closed model with the same teams playing each other is *"similar to most of the top US professional sports leagues"* and then explained that DA and ECNL follow that model too, which is accepted because they are the top teams (with presumably no need for re-flighting year to year) and play a year-round season in a nation-wide league.  The truth remains, a lower level set of teams playing a limited set of games against each other without any promotion or relegation (re-flighting) from year to year is indistinguishable from a club soccer tournament.  But if you want to call it a league, just like EGSL calls their spring tournament a league, go ahead.


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## SocalPapa

Kicker4Life said:


> How is that Promotion/Relegation?  Your point on Champions Division is well taken but that is all within a single Flight and only u13 and above.
> 
> I’m not defending DPL, I actually agree with you there!


SCDSL has promotion and relegation because teams are re-flighted each year.  And performance in league play counts even though the DOCs generally gets to pick the flight.  As the rules I quoted state, any club found to be mis-flighting its teams (which finding would be based on league play) will have their teams re-flighted for them the next season.  Conversely, CSL rules allow the board to ignore league standings where necessary to "provide the best competition."  The point is both leagues use re-flighting (taking prior-year league performance into account to at least some degree) in order to provide the best matchups season to season.

And talking about misnomers, Champions and Europa may be in the same "flight" but that is in name only as they are different levels of competition that don't actually play each other.


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## fotos4u2

So looking at the Vegas schedule posted this morning, I noticed some DPL teams are conspicously absent.  Weren't they supposed to get an automatic entry into Vegas?  I remember that that was part of the sales pitch.


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## Justafan

fotos4u2 said:


> So looking at the Vegas schedule posted this morning, I noticed some DPL teams are conspicously absent.  Weren't they supposed to get an automatic entry into Vegas?  I remember that that was part of the sales pitch.


Another interesting side note, in the 04 age group, they put the top 2 DPL teams (beach & legends) in the top bracket and put the 3rd place ECNL team (Blues Kale) in the next lower bracket.


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## davin

Justafan said:


> Another interesting side note, in the 04 age group, they put the top 2 DPL teams (beach & legends) in the top bracket and put the 3rd place ECNL team (Blues Kale) in the next lower bracket.


That is not the "top bracket". The USYS National League, which Beach and Legends are part of,  uses this showcase as one of their national events, and has their own bracket in the tournament. All of these USYS games have been scheduled since the beginning of the year.
http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2017-18-National-League/Schedule/14U-Girls/Division+1/


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## Justafan

davin said:


> That is not the "top bracket". The USYS National League, which Beach and Legends are part of,  uses this showcase as one of their national events, and has their own bracket in the tournament. All of these USYS games have been scheduled since the beginning of the year.
> http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2017-18-National-League/Schedule/14U-Girls/Division+1/


Got it. I remember when I first saw the list I was dumbfounded to see so many teams from non traditional states that we usually see in Vegas.


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## Josep

Points for using “foisted”.  Well done poster.


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## IntheknowSoccer

D


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## SocalPapa

Josep said:


> Points for using “foisted”.  Well done poster.


Points for making it all the way to the 6th paragraph of my babble.


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## Chris Knight

[QUOTE="But now we have DA too.  So there is a second top-level national league (made up mostly of *what had been 2nd tier clubs*).  But again people were willing to accept it because it was what US Soccer wanted and was supposed to have higher level coaching and better training than ECNL.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm ... ?  Aren't all of the historically and recently dominant ECNL clubs among those that accepted GDA invites?  Ya know ... Hawks, Blues, Eclipse, PDA, Tophat, Solar, FC Dallas, FC Stars, Slammers, Real CO, Surf, Crossfire among others.  And from what we've seen at the Showcase, and in the GDA/ECNL standings, all of which (outside of maybe 1 in your SoCal bubble) are generally playing their top talent in the GDA.


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## SocalPapa

Chris Knight said:


> [QUOTE="_But now we have DA too.  So there is a second top-level national league (made up mostly of *what had been 2nd tier clubs*).  But again people were willing to accept it because it was what US Soccer wanted and was supposed to have higher level coaching and better training than ECNL._"
> 
> Hmmm ... ?  Aren't all of the historically and recently dominant ECNL clubs among those that accepted GDA invites?  Ya know ... Hawks, Blues, Eclipse, PDA, Tophat, Solar, FC Dallas, FC Stars, Slammers, Real CO, Surf, Crossfire among others.  And from what we've seen at the Showcase, and in the GDA/ECNL standings, all of which (outside of maybe 1 in your SoCal bubble) are generally playing their top talent in the GDA.


That is an accurate statement, but doesn't necessarily refute the poster's argument.

Most of the historically and recently dominant ECNL clubs are in GDA and are playing their top talent in that league.  This minority of clubs dominates GDA as they dominated ECNL.  Almost all of the top 20 GDA clubs fit in this category.  (Notable exceptions include Legends and Beach, which have had outstanding GDA seasons despite a lack of ECNL experience.)  However, a super-majority of the remaining 49 (now 48) GDA teams had been 2nd tier clubs and remain so (per the GDA results so far).

If all GDA clubs claim to offer their players equal access to this superior US Soccer training then the distinction between the formally dominant ECNL clubs should have melted away.  But there is no sign of that having happened (at least in this first season).  So it seems unlikely, on a national level, that the GDA system has made all of those second-tier clubs better than (or even equal to) the top clubs that have remained in ECNL (including dual DA/ECNL clubs).  And if it failed to accomplish that then it is not unreasonable to conclude that US Soccer made some false promises about what the league really had to offer.


----------



## Desert Hound

SocalPapa said:


> That is an accurate statement, but doesn't necessarily refute the poster's argument.
> 
> Most of the historically and recently dominant ECNL clubs are in GDA and are playing their top talent in that league.  This minority of clubs dominates GDA as they dominated ECNL.  Almost all of the top 20 GDA clubs fit in this category.  (Notable exceptions include Legends and Beach, which have had outstanding GDA seasons despite a lack of ECNL experience.)  However, a super-majority of the remaining 49 (now 48) GDA teams had been 2nd tier clubs and remain so (per the GDA results so far).
> 
> If all GDA clubs claim to offer their players equal access to this superior US Soccer training then the distinction between the formally dominant ECNL clubs should have melted away.  But there is no sign of that having happened (at least in this first season).  So it seems unlikely, on a national level, that the GDA system has made all of those second-tier clubs better than (or even equal to) the top clubs that have remained in ECNL (including dual DA/ECNL clubs).  And if it failed to accomplish that then it is not unreasonable to conclude that US Soccer made some false promises about what the league really had to offer.


I think skill wise there is some overlap between GDA and ECNL. In the SW the top ECNL teams are NOT going to beat the top GDA teams...but probably become competitive midway through the table. 

Not sure if that is true in the rest of the US however...since I do not pay a lot of attention to teams outside our area/region.


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## Chris Knight

SocalPapa said:


> That is an accurate statement, but doesn't necessarily refute the poster's argument.
> 
> Most of the historically and recently dominant ECNL clubs are in GDA and are playing their top talent in that league.  This minority of clubs dominates GDA as they dominated ECNL.  Almost all of the top 20 GDA clubs fit in this category.  (Notable exceptions include Legends and Beach, which have had outstanding GDA seasons despite a lack of ECNL experience.)  However, a super-majority of the remaining 49 (now 48) GDA teams had been 2nd tier clubs and remain so (per the GDA results so far).
> 
> If all GDA clubs claim to offer their players equal access to this superior US Soccer training then the distinction between the formally dominant ECNL clubs should have melted away.  But there is no sign of that having happened (at least in this first season).  So it seems unlikely, on a national level, that the GDA system has made all of those second-tier clubs better than (or even equal to) the top clubs that have remained in ECNL (including dual DA/ECNL clubs).  And if it failed to accomplish that then it is not unreasonable to conclude that US Soccer made some false promises about what the league really had to offer.


Winner?

It's been 6 months.  Sheish.


----------



## mbeach

SocalPapa said:


> That is an accurate statement, but doesn't necessarily refute the poster's argument.
> 
> Most of the historically and recently dominant ECNL clubs are in GDA and are playing their top talent in that league.  This minority of clubs dominates GDA as they dominated ECNL.  Almost all of the top 20 GDA clubs fit in this category.  (Notable exceptions include Legends and Beach, which have had outstanding GDA seasons despite a lack of ECNL experience.)  However, a super-majority of the remaining 49 (now 48) GDA teams had been 2nd tier clubs and remain so (per the GDA results so far).
> 
> If all GDA clubs claim to offer their players equal access to this superior US Soccer training then the distinction between the formally dominant ECNL clubs should have melted away.  But there is no sign of that having happened (at least in this first season).  So it seems unlikely, on a national level, that the GDA system has made all of those second-tier clubs better than (or even equal to) the top clubs that have remained in ECNL (including dual DA/ECNL clubs).  And if it failed to accomplish that then it is not unreasonable to conclude that US Soccer made some false promises about what the league really had to offer.


Hi, can you provide a link to the "false promises" of US Soccer? As far as I can remember the goal of the DA program was to improve soccer development by enforcing on club members things like a minimum number of practices per week, coaching licenses/education, maximum number of games, a gaming circuit, etc. I do not remember a promise about making club members the "top clubs" (whatever that means) overnight. Please provide a link to the false promises, otherwise your comment may be taken as an invention that, by being repeated multiple times, is hoped to stick.


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## MakeAPlay

Chris Knight said:


> Hmmm ... ?  Aren't all of the historically and recently dominant ECNL clubs among those that accepted GDA invites?  Ya know ... Hawks, Blues, Eclipse, PDA, Tophat, Solar, FC Dallas, FC Stars, Slammers, Real CO, Surf, Crossfire among others.  And from what we've seen at the Showcase, and in the GDA/ECNL standings, all of which (outside of maybe 1 in your SoCal bubble) are generally playing their top talent in the GDA.


At the end of the day the top players play where their parents put them.  This argument is very circular.   If we are being 100% honest there are only between 25-35 elite kids in any particular birth year in SoCal and only 4-5 of them are unicorns.  The funniest part is it's pretty hard to tell which ones are the unicorns until about 16/17.  Focusing on a club versus a coach is ludicrous and a great way to waste potential.


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## MakeAPlay

MakeAPlay said:


> At the end of the day the top players play where their parents put them.  This argument is very circular.   If we are being 100% honest there are only between 25-35 elite kids in any particular birth year in SoCal and only 4-5 of them are unicorns.  The funniest part is it's pretty hard to tell which ones are the unicorns until about 16/17.  Focusing on a club versus a coach is ludicrous and a great way to waste potential.


I also would like to add that every girl that is willing to work hard enough and gets enough support and assistance can play some level of college soccer.  In a pool as big as what we have in SoCal, Southern Nevada and the Phoenix area plenty of those players will go on to do big things in soccer and beyond.  

The easiest way for them to get there is with support and a focus on what is best for them.  Getting committed to a school is only the beginning.  Making sure that it is a positive experience for your player is the key.  Good luck to all of the players still chasing their dreams.


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## LadiesMan217

SocalPapa said:


> That is an accurate statement, but doesn't necessarily refute the poster's argument.
> 
> Most of the historically and recently dominant ECNL clubs are in GDA and are playing their top talent in that league.  This minority of clubs dominates GDA as they dominated ECNL.  Almost all of the top 20 GDA clubs fit in this category.  (Notable exceptions include Legends and Beach, which have had outstanding GDA seasons despite a lack of ECNL experience.)  However, a super-majority of the remaining 49 (now 48) GDA teams had been 2nd tier clubs and remain so (per the GDA results so far).
> 
> If all GDA clubs claim to offer their players equal access to this superior US Soccer training then the distinction between the formally dominant ECNL clubs should have melted away.  But there is no sign of that having happened (at least in this first season).  So it seems unlikely, on a national level, that the GDA system has made all of those second-tier clubs better than (or even equal to) the top clubs that have remained in ECNL (including dual DA/ECNL clubs).  And if it failed to accomplish that then it is not unreasonable to conclude that US Soccer made some false promises about what the league really had to offer.


This is the dumbest thing I have read in a while and the parent mentality behind this post is part of why soccer in the US is hosed and these clubs succeed. Yeah the Blues U16/17 went undefeated last season and lost in the final yet they are in 9th place this season. The only reason teams are good in DA is most of the better ECNL players stayed with their clubs. My kid played at the top level for best club in the west and they were taught next to nothing by the coach who will not be coaching DA in 2 years because US Soccer won't allow it. I attended so many practice sessions and wondered what I was paying for. Just a bunch of good/athletic players all flocking to the same 'winning successful' club. And, many of those second-tier clubs  you are dissing have the best training programs/coaches and US Soccer knows it - just not the best players (yet).


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## SocalPapa

LadiesMan217 said:


> This is the dumbest thing I have read in a while and the parent mentality behind this post is part of why soccer in the US is hosed and these clubs succeed. Yeah the Blues U16/17 went undefeated last season and lost in the final yet they are in 9th place this season. The only reason teams are good in DA is most of the better ECNL players stayed with their clubs. My kid played at the top level for best club in the west and they were taught next to nothing by the coach who will not be coaching DA in 2 years because US Soccer won't allow it. I attended so many practice sessions and wondered what I was paying for. Just a bunch of good/athletic players all flocking to the same 'winning successful' club. And, many of those second-tier clubs  you are dissing have the best training programs/coaches and US Soccer knows it - just not the best players (yet).


If you want to prove how much more knowledgeable you are about club soccer, your chosen example is a poor one.  The Blues 2002 ECNL team (which won the national U15 championship last spring) stayed largely in tact this season.  (They are, in fact, the most notable exception to the dual clubs putting their top players on their GDA team.)  Further, their U16/U17 GDA roster largely consists of girls that played on their 2002 SCDSL Flight 1 team last season (which finished 5th place in Champions and lost in the quarterfinals of the SCDSL playoffs).  Despite that the Blues, overall, are still in the top 20 performing GDA clubs nationally.  I posted all the club standings on another thread, but here's the top 20 (as of Feb. 16th):

*Rank Club (W-T-L) Points per game average* [3 per W, 1 per T]
1 NTH Tophat (50-8-2) 2.63
2 Penn Fusion Soccer Academy (39-4-10) 2.28
3 FC Dallas (41-7-9) 2.28
4 Legends FC (52-10-11) 2.27
5 Solar Soccer Club (39-10-8) 2.23
6 Crossfire Premier (33-8-8) 2.18
7 Sky Blue - PDA (42-7-12) 2.18
8 Real Colorado (33-10-7) 2.18
9 New York City FC (39-5-15) 2.07
10 San Diego Surf (39-14-12) 2.02
11 Michigan Hawks (33-11-11) 2.00
12 NC Courage (29-11-9) 2.00
13 Cincinnati Development Academy (29-7-12) 1.96
14 FC Fury NY (37-3-19) 1.93
15 LAFC Slammers (38-7-18) 1.92
16 Concorde Fire (35-12-14) 1.92
17 FC Virginia (37-5-19) 1.90
18 Beach Futbol Club (42-10-21) 1.86
19 Eclipse Select Soccer Club (27-5-15) 1.83
20 So Cal Blues Soccer Club (41-13-23) 1.77


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## LadiesMan217

SocalPapa said:


> If you want to prove how much more knowledgeable you are about club soccer, your chosen example is a poor one.  The Blues 2002 ECNL team (which won the national U15 championship last spring) stayed largely in tact this season.  (They are, in fact, the most notable exception to the dual clubs putting their top players on their GDA team.)  Further, their U16/U17 GDA roster largely consists of girls that played on their 2002 SCDSL Flight 1 team last season (which finished 5th place in Champions and lost in the quarterfinals of the SCDSL playoffs).  Despite that the Blues, overall, are still in the top 20 performing GDA clubs nationally.  I posted all the club standings on another thread, but here's the top 20 (as of Feb. 16th):
> 
> *Rank Club (W-T-L) Points per game average* [3 per W, 1 per T]
> 1 NTH Tophat (50-8-2) 2.63
> 2 Penn Fusion Soccer Academy (39-4-10) 2.28
> 3 FC Dallas (41-7-9) 2.28
> 4 Legends FC (52-10-11) 2.27
> 5 Solar Soccer Club (39-10-8) 2.23
> 6 Crossfire Premier (33-8-8) 2.18
> 7 Sky Blue - PDA (42-7-12) 2.18
> 8 Real Colorado (33-10-7) 2.18
> 9 New York City FC (39-5-15) 2.07
> 10 San Diego Surf (39-14-12) 2.02
> 11 Michigan Hawks (33-11-11) 2.00
> 12 NC Courage (29-11-9) 2.00
> 13 Cincinnati Development Academy (29-7-12) 1.96
> 14 FC Fury NY (37-3-19) 1.93
> 15 LAFC Slammers (38-7-18) 1.92
> 16 Concorde Fire (35-12-14) 1.92
> 17 FC Virginia (37-5-19) 1.90
> 18 Beach Futbol Club (42-10-21) 1.86
> 19 Eclipse Select Soccer Club (27-5-15) 1.83
> 20 So Cal Blues Soccer Club (41-13-23) 1.77


So you made my point for me and proved my example is spot on. Did you understand anything I wrote?


----------



## SocalPapa

LadiesMan217 said:


> So you made my point for me and proved my example is spot on. Did you understand anything I wrote?


How did I make your point for you?  Blues kept their top 2002 team in ECNL and their GDA coach took an average 2002 Champions roster and has them playing .500 soccer in GDA against girls who are mostly 1 year older with ECNL experience.  This is not a coach they brought in for GDA.  It's the same coach that had developed the ECNL team.

Your proof that all these second tier clubs in GDA have more effective training consists of a misstatement about the Blues' 2002 team's experience and your expectation that the second-tier clubs will get better once more talented players trained by other clubs start playing with them.  How is this proof that their training methods are better?

I'm not arguing that drawing the best talent doesn't make a difference.  It certainly does.  But you've provided no support for your declaration that the dozens of second-tier clubs that were invited to join GDA have been hiding their superior training methods from the good players all these years.


----------



## C.A.M.

SocalPapa said:


> If you want to prove how much more knowledgeable you are about club soccer, your chosen example is a poor one.  The Blues 2002 ECNL team (which won the national U15 championship last spring) stayed largely in tact this season.  (They are, in fact, the most notable exception to the dual clubs putting their top players on their GDA team.)  Further, their U16/U17 GDA roster largely consists of girls that played on their 2002 SCDSL Flight 1 team last season (which finished 5th place in Champions and lost in the quarterfinals of the SCDSL playoffs).  Despite that the Blues, overall, are still in the top 20 performing GDA clubs nationally.  I posted all the club standings on another thread, but here's the top 20 (as of Feb. 16th):
> 
> *Rank Club (W-T-L) Points per game average* [3 per W, 1 per T]
> 1 NTH Tophat (50-8-2) 2.63
> 2 Penn Fusion Soccer Academy (39-4-10) 2.28
> 3 FC Dallas (41-7-9) 2.28
> 4 Legends FC (52-10-11) 2.27
> 5 Solar Soccer Club (39-10-8) 2.23
> 6 Crossfire Premier (33-8-8) 2.18
> 7 Sky Blue - PDA (42-7-12) 2.18
> 8 Real Colorado (33-10-7) 2.18
> 9 New York City FC (39-5-15) 2.07
> 10 San Diego Surf (39-14-12) 2.02
> 11 Michigan Hawks (33-11-11) 2.00
> 12 NC Courage (29-11-9) 2.00
> 13 Cincinnati Development Academy (29-7-12) 1.96
> 14 FC Fury NY (37-3-19) 1.93
> 15 LAFC Slammers (38-7-18) 1.92
> 16 Concorde Fire (35-12-14) 1.92
> 17 FC Virginia (37-5-19) 1.90
> 18 Beach Futbol Club (42-10-21) 1.86
> 19 Eclipse Select Soccer Club (27-5-15) 1.83
> 20 So Cal Blues Soccer Club (41-13-23) 1.77



5 of the top 20 in the country from our region.  This place is a murderers row of youth ladies futbol.  I respect what the other regions have to do travel wise and tip my hat to them.  With that said, it's just not the same as playing the top level competition we have here weekly.  Thanks for the information.


----------



## MakeAPlay

C.A.M. said:


> 5 of the top 20 in the country from our region.  This place is a murderers row of youth ladies futbol.  I respect what the other regions have to do travel wise and tip my hat to them.  With that said, it's just not the same as playing the top level competition we have here weekly.  Thanks for the information.


Coaches recruit players not teams.  It would be wise not to forget that.  The US has also become a big destination for foreign YNT talent that can pass the TOEFL.  In my daughter's graduating class there are only 2 players from the team that was top her senior year that are currently starting in college and only one of them is on a top 25 college team.  There are several that come off the bench but only 2 of 20 something players are college starters.

My point is that it's all about the player not the team.  Get your player good coaching and be supportive and everything else will work itself out.


----------



## C.A.M.

MakeAPlay said:


> Coaches recruit players not teams.  It would be wise not to forget that.  The US has also become a big destination for foreign YNT talent that can pass the TOEFL.  In my daughter's graduating class there are only 2 players from the team that was top her senior year that are currently starting in college and only one of them is on a top 25 college team.  There are several that come off the bench but only 2 of 20 something players are college starters.
> 
> My point is that it's all about the player not the team.  Get your player good coaching and be supportive and everything else will work itself out.


I hear you loud and clear.  The Florida showcase made that point to us as the interest from multiple top 10 programs came in for our girl.  It has really galvanized her resolve to show up and perform no matter what her teammates are doing good or bad.

You made me look up what the TOEFL exam is.

Seeing my kids on wonderful and woeful teams has taught us coaching (includes personnel/team management) is a main ingredient for their development. The environment the coach sets is so important. I'm not so into them being on the best team as I'm into them being on the best team for them. 

Having talented, dedicated, focused players with great attitudes surrounding them doesn't hurt either.


----------



## Paddingtonsoccer

I heard—granted, third hand through a player who heard through another player who heard from a coach—that ECNL teams that have DA teams are going to become DPL teams.  Does anyone know if this is the case?


----------



## C.A.M.

Paddingtonsoccer said:


> I heard—granted, third hand through a player who heard through another player who heard from a coach—that ECNL teams that have DA teams are going to become DPL teams.  Does anyone know if this is the case?


If what you are saying is the ECNL teams will be the DPL teams I think that is what US Soccer wants.  I would be really surprised if it happened.  The ECNL business model seems pretty strong. I don't know a damn thing though.


----------



## SocalPapa

Three different U14 DPL teams failed to secure a single team point in their National Cup games.  Only 1 (Beach) with three wins. An inauspicious start to National Cup competition for the league. https://cysa.affinitysoccer.com/tour/public/info/schedule_results2.asp?sessionguid=&flightguid=4A69B3C3-F3B8-4A87-8AEF-80B67E6E3EE9&tournamentguid=8F336501-E4EB-43DD-8288-B1577107F046


----------



## Simisoccerfan

SocalPapa said:


> Three different U14 DPL teams failed to secure a single team point in their National Cup games.  Only 1 (Beach) with three wins. An inauspicious start to National Cup competition for the league. https://cysa.affinitysoccer.com/tour/public/info/schedule_results2.asp?sessionguid=&flightguid=4A69B3C3-F3B8-4A87-8AEF-80B67E6E3EE9&tournamentguid=8F336501-E4EB-43DD-8288-B1577107F046


You need to take another look at the standings you missed the DPL teams that don’t use DPL in their name.


----------



## Monkey

Simisoccerfan said:


> You need to take another look at the standings you missed the DPL teams that don’t use DPL in their name.


Would you like to share this information?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Why, it’s obvious.


----------



## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> You need to take another look at the standings you missed the DPL teams that don’t use DPL in their name.


I don't see any other 3-game winning DPL teams.  Pretty sure the Group A and C winners are Legends and Real So Cal's SCDSL teams (their DPL teams are in Groups E and G).  I count 4 total DPL teams that advanced (2 as wild cards).

For the 16 teams that advanced, I count:

SCDSL 10 (5 Champions, 3 Europa, 1 Flight 2, 1 Flight 3*)
DPL 4
CSL 2 (1 Gold, 1 Silver Elite)

*Not sure what that Arsenal ECNL team is.  Perhaps they had some ECNL players guesting with their Flight 3 team?


----------



## Kicker4Life

SocalPapa said:


> I don't see any other 3-game winning DPL teams.  Pretty sure the Group A and C winners are Legends and Real So Cal's SCDSL teams (their DPL teams are in Groups E and G).  I count 4 total DPL teams that advanced (2 as wild cards).
> 
> For the 16 teams that advanced, I count:
> 
> SCDSL 10 (5 Champions, 3 Europa, 1 Flight 2, 1 Flight 3*)
> DPL 4
> CSL 2 (1 Gold, 1 Silver Elite)
> 
> *Not sure what that Arsenal ECNL team is.  Perhaps they had some ECNL players guesting with their Flight 3 team?


Group A and C teams are flt 1 teams from Regional Satellites (Riverside and San Gabriel Valley respectively), so in essence it is that Clubs Top team.


----------



## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> Why, it’s obvious.


Only obvious to a delusional Kool Aide drinking pansy.

You don't even have a kid in this age group and Kicker does.  Not sure about Papa but neither see another DPL team.  So no not obvious. Prove it, list the teams.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Long and short, I think it’s much ado about nothing for the ‘04’s. Teams who were in the hunt last year remain in the hunt this year regardless of the league and whether or not they changed/added some title to their name.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Fact said:


> Only obvious to a delusional Kool Aide drinking pansy.
> 
> You don't even have a kid in this age group and Kicker does.  Not sure about Papa but neither see another DPL team.  So no not obvious. Prove it, list the teams.


Easy to call me names online. Name the place and I will let you try the same to my face.


----------



## Monkey

Monkey said:


> Would you like to share this information?





Simisoccerfan said:


> Why, it’s obvious.





SocalPapa said:


> I don't see any other 3-game winning DPL teams.  Pretty sure the Group A and C winners are Legends and Real So Cal's SCDSL teams (their DPL teams are in Groups E and G).  I count 4 total DPL teams that advanced (2 as wild cards).
> 
> For the 16 teams that advanced, I count:
> 
> SCDSL 10 (5 Champions, 3 Europa, 1 Flight 2, 1 Flight 3*)
> DPL 4
> CSL 2 (1 Gold, 1 Silver Elite)?





Fact said:


> Only obvious to a delusional Kool Aide drinking pansy.  So no not obvious. Prove it, list the teams.





Simisoccerfan said:


> Fact go away, I am trying to be a tough guy.  You know how wonderful DPL is for my ego.  I can't wait until they give parents DPL patches too.  Until then I like daisies not pansies.  Name the place .


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Monkey

From your history here I knew you were a jerk but you just confirmed it by creating a fake post in my name.  That’s low. 

No I am not trying to be a tough guy.  It’s just people post nasty things about others that they never would say to their face.


----------



## GoldenFjord

Simisoccerfan said:


> The internet is serious business and you have insulted this great family. I am a Soccerfan as my father was before me and his before him. I will not stand for this injustice.


She’s still learning how to keep it light give her time.


----------



## GoldenFjord

Fact said:


> Only obvious to a delusional Kool Aide drinking pansy.


Speaking of drinking, how ya doin buddy? Seem to be lashing out, is there something you want to talk about? Where is the pain? Who hurt you?


----------



## espola

Simisoccerfan said:


> Easy to call me names online. Name the place and I will let you try the same to my face.


Post it here so we can come watch.


----------



## espola

GoldenFjord said:


> She’s still learning how to keep it light give her time.


Which one?


----------



## Monkey

Simisoccerfan said:


> You need to take another look at the standings you missed the DPL teams that don’t use DPL in their name.


Everyone on this forum has opinions and we can agree to disagree on them.  But when you come on here to claim a fact not an opinion to further your DPL agenda of course I am going to call you out to prove it.


----------



## GoldenFjord

espola said:


> Which one?


Lil Monkey. 
I have been waiting for a good sideline soccer rumble for years though so maybe we ought to support this. It’s about time we catch up to Midwest Teeball.


----------



## Monkey

Monkey said:


> Would you like to share this information?





Simisoccerfan said:


> Why, it’s obvious.


But instead of admitting you are wrong you are rude and deflect.


----------



## Monkey

Fact said:


> Only obvious to a delusional Kool Aide drinking pansy.
> 
> You don't even have a kid in this age group and Kicker does.  Not sure about Papa but neither see another DPL team.  So no not obvious. Prove it, list the teams.





Simisoccerfan said:


> Monkey
> 
> From your history here I knew you were a jerk but you just confirmed it by creating a fake post in my name.  That’s low.
> 
> No I am not trying to be a tough guy.  It’s just people post nasty things about others that they never would say to their face.


People have been called far worse than pansy on this site.  Stop deflecting, stop threatening people and just answer the damn question or admit that you were wrong.


----------



## Monkey

Simisoccerfan said:


> Monkey
> 
> From your history here I knew you were a jerk but you just confirmed it by creating a fake post in my name.  That’s low.
> 
> No I am not trying to be a tough guy.  It’s just people post nasty things about others that they never would say to their face.


Look in the mirror.  Get a life, no one believes my post is real you pansy.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Monkey said:


> But instead of admitting you are wrong you are rude and deflect.


I was wrong about the three wins.  I miss read his post.  When I posted it’s obvious I meant the teams that were in DPL that don’t use DPL in their name.  I am certainly not rude like you creating fake posts


----------



## Monkey

Simisoccerfan said:


> I was wrong about the three wins.  I miss read his post.  When I posted it’s obvious I meant the teams that were in DPL that don’t use DPL in their name.  I am certainly not rude like you creating fake posts


Thank you for admitting it.  I'll let GoldenFjord and Fact work on the rude part.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

And no I am not going fight Fact or anyone else. If everyone here is in Vegas though I suggest we meet up. It’s way too easy to insult people online when you don’t know them


----------



## Monkey

Simisoccerfan said:


> And no I am not going fight Fact or anyone else because I have been told that I am a pansy.  If everyone here is in Vegas though I suggest we meet up. It’s way too easy to insult people AND MAKE UP LIES to push the DPL agenda online when you don’t know them


----------



## Monkey

Keep up your cheerleading.  Have a good day.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Nice to see you stay true to yourself even when I admit I was wrong and try to reach out.


----------



## GoldenFjord

It’s not even 10:00 and it’s this heated. What a day


----------



## C.A.M.

Hey if it isn't going to end like this, let's just cut out the antics and stick to the topic at hand. 

https://twitter.com/TripleSixGod/status/971261507660107777?s=09


----------



## Kicker4Life

Monkey said:


> Keep up your cheerleading.  Have a good day.


I don’t think that’s a fair assessment. Simi doesn’t go out of the way to promote DPL half as much as people go out of their way to bash it.   His DD has obviously had a good experience and been promoted to the DA team for at least the Florida event. 

We’ve got to acknowledge that some of us have an opinion based on our own experiences and those opinions can’t be extrapolated across the general population as gospel, positive or negative.


----------



## SocalPapa

Kicker4Life said:


> I don’t think that’s a fair assessment. Simi doesn’t go out of the way to promote DPL half as much as people go out of their way to bash it.   His DD has obviously had a good experience and been promoted to the DA team for at least the Florida event.
> 
> We’ve got to acknowledge that some of us have an opinion based on our own experiences and those opinions can’t be extrapolated across the general population as gospel, positive or negative.


Agreed.  Though my conclusions are often different from his, I value @Simisoccerfan's opinions and personal insights.  I hope he'll keep sharing them.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

No worries.  Thanks for the support.  The reason why I have been a DPL supporter is that the experience has been great for my dd and it worked out perfectly for us.  I recognize that we might be 1 in a 100.


----------



## Fact

GoldenFjord said:


> Speaking of drinking, how ya doin buddy? Seem to be lashing out, is there something you want to talk about? Where is the pain? Who hurt you?


Too much work, too little time to knock some sense into pansies.


----------



## SoccerLife75

Getting back to DPL.  Has anyone heard rumors of DPL growing more teams being added next year from where?  Is this true?   Also for the 03's are most current Academy players in 03 going to get pushed down to DPL since Academey will be 02/03 next year.  Does that also mean existing DPL team will get pushed down to SCDSL or CSL.


----------



## Desert Hound

SoccerLife75 said:


> Getting back to DPL.  Has anyone heard rumors of DPL growing more teams being added next year from where?  Is this true?   Also for the 03's are most current Academy players in 03 going to get pushed down to DPL since Academey will be 02/03 next year.  Does that also mean existing DPL team will get pushed down to SCDSL or CSL.


You would have to assume that those 03 girls that don't make the dual age band team will be pushed down to DPL...thereby pushing some of the existing DPL players to some other team...that then needs to make room...etc.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I have heard nothing about DPL for next year yet.  My dd is moving out of DPL after Vegas but I will get a chance to talk to various people there and if I hear anything I will pass it on.


----------



## SoccerLife75

When you say you are moving out of DPL, you are going to Academy right for the remainder of the season?  What about next season what is Academy promising these players if Academy will be 02/03.  I assume most 03's will be placed in DPL.


----------



## Monkey

Kicker4Life said:


> I don’t think that’s a fair assessment. Simi doesn’t go out of the way to promote DPL half as much as people go out of their way to bash it.   His DD has obviously had a good experience and been promoted to the DA team for at least the Florida event.
> 
> We’ve got to acknowledge that some of us have an opinion based on our own experiences and those opinions can’t be extrapolated across the general population as gospel, positive or negative.


Opinions are great but the false information spread by Simi and crew is not appreciated. She should have admittedly she was wrong as opposed to becoming defensive and if you go back to the early pages of this thread, all DA II teams were superior to teams in all leagues with the exception of DA.  As Kicker said a  change in team name or league this year is irrelevant to the discussion of quality.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Monkey said:


> Opinions are great but the false information spread by Simi and crew is not appreciated. She should have admittedly she was wrong as opposed to becoming defensive and if you go back to the early pages of this thread, all DA II teams were superior to teams in all leagues with the exception of DA.  As Kicker said a  change in team name or league this year is irrelevant to the discussion of quality.


First of all regardless of Fact trying to call me a Pansy I am a dude not a she!   Secondly you are the King of false information on this website with your fake posts and spreading your agenda.  If you ever took the time to actually read and understand my position I have consistently stated that ECNL is a better option than DPL but it does not exist in the area that I live.  There are many good teams in CSL and Flight 1 just not many good options in Ventura County.   That was my point that I made way back here.  I have admitted my error about the three win teams in the 04 age group earlier.  

I can only speak for myself but what I don't appreciate is you twisting what others say to further your agenda and even going so far as creating fake posts.   The intent of this forum in my opinion is for people to share their information and opinions.  It appears that your intent is to try and belittle other people and any opinion you don't agree with.   Keep it up.  Eventually you will only be talking with yourself.   I assume you actually have kids playing soccer.  I hope you set a better example for them in the real world.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

SoccerLife75 said:


> When you say you are moving out of DPL, you are going to Academy right for the remainder of the season?  What about next season what is Academy promising these players if Academy will be 02/03.  I assume most 03's will be placed in DPL.


Yes DA.  My dd is an 01 so she will just slide into next years 00/01 age group.


----------



## Soccer43

more DPL vs ..... For '04 teams in National cup - several DPL teams did not win one game in their bracket.  Only two advanced to round of 16 and only 1 still left in the running in quarterfinals.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Soccer43 said:


> more DPL vs ..... For '04 teams in National cup - several DPL teams did not win one game in their bracket.  Only two advanced to round of 16 and only 1 still left in the running in quarterfinals.


Your information is wrong. If your going to troll DPL teams at least get the information correct....especially when it’s already been discussed on this very thread.


----------



## Soccer43

Oh that's right - I forgot everyone has been discussing this - what info is wrong?  Is there more than one DPL in the quarterfinals?


----------



## Soccer43

BTW - was not trolling DPL t.eams, I was looking at National Cup results from round of 32 yesterday


----------



## Kicker4Life

Soccer43 said:


> Oh that's right - I forgot everyone has been discussing this - what info is wrong?  Is there more than one DPL in the quarterfinals?


1) 4 DPL Teams made it to the round of 16, not 2 (BEACH, LAGSD, REAL SOCAL & LEGENDS).
2) 2 DPL Teams made it to the Quarters (REAL & LEGENDS) not 1. 

The framework of your post was very “troll’ish”.


----------



## Soccer43

Kicker4Life said:


> 1) 4 DPL Teams made it to the round of 16, not 2 (BEACH, LAGSD, REAL SOCAL & LEGENDS).
> 2) 2 DPL Teams made it to the Quarters (REAL & LEGENDS) not 1.
> 
> The framework of your post was very “troll’ish”.


In the effort to not appear troll'ish in the future, what does that entail?  Just want to make sure I stay out of trouble and not annoy anyone


----------



## Kicker4Life

Soccer43 said:


> In the effort to not appear troll'ish in the future, what does that entail?  Just want to make sure I stay out of trouble and not annoy anyone


If genuinely concerned, go back and read the post objectively.  Otherwise, don’t sweat it, all good.


----------



## SocalPapa

Kicker4Life said:


> 1) 4 DPL Teams made it to the round of 16, not 2 (BEACH, LAGSD, REAL SOCAL & LEGENDS).
> 2) 2 DPL Teams made it to the Quarters (REAL & LEGENDS) not 1.


And now zero DPL teams have made the semis.  The final four teams are:

Legends FC East-Riverside G04 (SCDSL Champions 3rd Place)
vs.
CDA FC Slammers - HB G04 Melendez EGSL (SCDSL Champions 6th Place)

Arsenal FC G04 ECNL (ECNL 8th Place) [Is this their actual ECNL roster?]
vs.
Fullerton Rangers G04 White (CSL Gold 1st Place)

There was an unfortunate draw for DPL in that their two top U14 teams (Beach and Legends) ended up playing each other in the round of 16.  The winner of that game (Legends) then faced the top CSL Team (Fullerton) in the quarters and lost.  Real (DPL #6) lost their quarterfinal game on PKs.  Pateadores (DPL #3) had finished 2nd in their Natl Cup pool (with 2 wins), but failed to advance as a wild card.


----------



## Kicker4Life

SocalPapa said:


> And now zero DPL teams have made the semis.  The final four teams are:
> 
> Legends FC East-Riverside G04 (SCDSL Champions 3rd Place)
> vs.
> CDA FC Slammers - HB G04 Melendez EGSL (SCDSL Champions 6th Place)
> 
> Arsenal FC G04 ECNL (ECNL 8th Place) [Is this their actual ECNL roster?]
> vs.
> Fullerton Rangers G04 White (CSL Gold 1st Place)
> 
> There was an unfortunate draw for DPL in that their two top U14 teams (Beach and Legends) ended up playing each other in the round of 16.  The winner of that game (Legends) then faced the top CSL Team (Fullerton) in the quarters and lost.  Real (DPL #6) lost their quarterfinal game on PKs.  Pateadores (DPL #3) had finished 2nd in their Natl Cup pool (with 2 wins), but failed to advance as a wild card.


Congrats to all!


----------



## Overtime

Hearing talk that DPL clubs are considering a DA style format for 2003’s only which includes no high school soccer.  Anyone else?


----------



## jose

Overtime said:


> Hearing talk that DPL clubs are considering a DA style format for 2003’s only which includes no high school soccer.  Anyone else?


IDK but that sucks.


----------



## Desert Hound

Overtime said:


> Hearing talk that DPL clubs are considering a DA style format for 2003’s only which includes no high school soccer.  Anyone else?


Anyone hear about any changes for the upcoming year?


----------



## gkrent

Desert Hound said:


> Anyone hear about any changes for the upcoming year?


I also heard rumblings of no high school but am awaiting official word.


----------



## jose

why are these leagues against girls playing high school?


----------



## Josep

gkrent said:


> I also heard rumblings of no high school but am awaiting official word.


There’s miles of posts about this in the DA thread. 

SoCal 03 pilot league mirrors DA, is called DPL and no high school.  Same weekends and game day as other DA teams.  Will Play in winter and college showcases.


----------



## Justafan

gkrent said:


> I also heard rumblings of no high school but am awaiting official word.


Three big clubs pull out of DA because of no high school, lots of olders choosing ECNL over DA because of no high school, and now this? Dumbest idea yet.  The one advantage a DA2 player had over DA was that they at least had the option of playing high school and now it’s taken away.  I feel for these kids because they may have another tough decision to make.


----------



## Paddingtonsoccer

Who are the three big clubs that have pulled out of DA?  Sorry if I have missed the post.


----------



## Chris Knight

Paddingtonsoccer said:


> Who are the three big clubs that have pulled out of DA?  Sorry if I have missed the post.


Michigan Hawks, PDA, FC Stars


----------



## Desert Hound

So the rumor/word is DPL is going to be an actual league next year? More than just the 9 games they played. Home and away type league. 

Anyone else here that? 

That would seem to coincide with the 03DPL band. They must be playing more than 9 or so games this coming year.


----------



## Josep

Desert Hound said:


> So the rumor/word is DPL is going to be an actual league next year? More than just the 9 games they played. Home and away type league.
> 
> Anyone else here that?
> 
> That would seem to coincide with the 03DPL band. They must be playing more than 9 or so games this coming year.



They will play the exact same schedule as the DA age groups, with the exception of Playoffs.  There will be no standings for this league.  So not just a 9 game exhibition, but not quite DA.


----------



## Desert Hound

Josep said:


> They will play the exact same schedule as the DA age groups, with the exception of Playoffs.  There will be no standings for this league.  So not just a 9 game exhibition, but not quite DA.


I believe there will be standings. They have a website  that says standings. If it is on the internet it must be true.....


----------



## Josep

Desert Hound said:


> I believe there will be standings. They have a website  that says standings. If it is on the internet it must be true.....



The pilot this year doesn’t have standings and we were told no standings.  Hopefully that’s bad info.


----------



## cerebro de fútbol

If the DPL pilot program for the 03's limits outside competition, does that mean that the 03's will only be allowed to play in two showcases the entire year?

If so, the Pilot program limits the 03's exposure to college coaches during their sophomore year of high school.  Given the recent NCAA recruiting changes, seems to me that the 03's in the Pilot Program will miss out on a lot of exposure to college coaches during arguably their most important year for recruiting.

The Pilot Program should increase exposure to college coaches - not limit it.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

cerebro de fútbol said:


> If the DPL pilot program for the 03's limits outside competition, does that mean that the 03's will only be allowed to play in two showcases the entire year?
> 
> If so, the Pilot program limits the 03's exposure to college coaches during their sophomore year of high school.  Given the recent NCAA recruiting changes, seems to me that the 03's in the Pilot Program will miss out on a lot of exposure to college coaches during arguably their most important year for recruiting.
> 
> The Pilot Program should increase exposure to college coaches - not limit it.


If the pilot teams get the same level of attention as the other DA teams they will likely get more attention from coaches in those two events then other teams (excluding ECNL) get in an entire year of other events. I have also seen college coaches attending DA league games.  Never saw that elsewhere.


----------



## Pitch pop

Simisoccerfan said:


> If the pilot teams get the same level of attention as the other DA teams they will likely get more attention from coaches in those two events then other teams (excluding ECNL) get in an entire year of other events. I have also seen college coaches attending DA league games.  Never saw that elsewhere.


Probably won’t get the same level of attention with the best players playing on the 02/03 team.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Pitch pop said:


> Probably won’t get the same level of attention with the best players playing on the 02/03 team.


Coaches recruit players not teams so if the DPL teams are playing in the same big DA showcase, those players become more accessible to those Coaches. So in theory it would benefit a player to play in an environment that draws more Coaches.  IMHO they rank:

ECNL/DA
DPL/USYSL
SCDSL
CSL


----------



## Josep

Ecnl at this age group is awful.  You have two strong teams and one mediocre team.  

AR’s Strikers/Blues squad and Slammers Ecnl. 

Arsenal is still good but considering how much they lost to legends DA.  

The rest is very weak.  Why do people still rate ecnl especially at 03 level?


----------



## Overtime

Simisoccerfan said:


> If the pilot teams get the same level of attention as the other DA teams they will likely get more attention from coaches in those two events then other teams (excluding ECNL) get in an entire year of other events. I have also seen college coaches attending DA league games.  Never saw that elsewhere.


That is the question...will they get the same attention or will they be the guests in the far corner? Just remember these teams are not US Soccer sanctioned and not part of the DA.   DPL Pilot is asking girls to give up CRL, National Cup, High School, outside showcases/tournaments and to play in a league with no standings or playoffs.  In return they are guests at 2 DA showcases.  Each family will have to decide if the trade offs are worth it.


----------



## SOCCERMINION

Josep said:


> Ecnl at this age group is awful.  You have two strong teams and one mediocre team.
> 
> AR’s Strikers/Blues squad and Slammers Ecnl.
> 
> Arsenal is still good but considering how much they lost to legends DA.
> 
> The rest is very weak.  Why do people still rate ecnl especially at 03 level?


Both leagues have dilution: you have a few good teams then a  drop of from there. Look at Goal Differentials (GD) to give you a better idea of who are the Stronger teams in both leagues. both leagues are awful, you shouldn't have huge disparity top to bottom.


----------



## Desert Hound

Here is the latest DPL news out of AZ. See link. 
https://www.serenosoccer.com/page/show/4136199-development-players-leagues


----------



## Pitch pop

Josep said:


> Ecnl at this age group is awful.  You have two strong teams and one mediocre team.
> 
> AR’s Strikers/Blues squad and Slammers Ecnl.
> 
> Arsenal is still good but considering how much they lost to legends DA.
> 
> The rest is very weak.  Why do people still rate ecnl especially at 03 level?


The dilution at the ‘03 group and SoCal is the big problem. The talent pool is spread too thin. Period.  The problem isn’t isolated to any one league (ECNL/DA).  Watching that the Blues/Galaxy game, I wouldn’t say that what the DA has to offer over ECNL is any better at this point.  Definately not worth all the concessions in my opinion.  Considering that those are two of the better teams in terms of standings was shocking. The gap between the good and bad teams in both leagues is way too large.  My prediction is that neither socal league (ECNL/DA) will do well in their respective playoffs later this summer.


----------



## LadiesMan217

SOCCERMINION said:


> Both leagues have dilution: you have a few good teams then a  drop of from there. Look at Goal Differentials (GD) to give you a better idea of who are the Stronger teams in both leagues. both leagues are awful, you shouldn't have huge disparity top to bottom.View attachment 2456 View attachment 2457


I think his point was rating ECNL -vs- DA (SoCal) teams - not team standings within the league.


----------



## Justafan

LadiesMan217 said:


> I think his point was rating ECNL -vs- DA (SoCal) teams - not team standings within the league.


I took it as a statement regarding dilution within each league, not ecnl v da.


----------



## Overtime

Desert Hound said:


> Here is the latest DPL news out of AZ. See link.
> https://www.serenosoccer.com/page/show/4136199-development-players-leagues


The DPL pilot counters the stated philosophy of the DPL as described in the opening paragraph. 
You can’t have it both ways and pitch both as the same philosophy. 
Do parents really buy the better pathway to the DA over the traditional DPL?  It is a way to keep the 2003s hanging around...looks and acts like DA but it is not DA.


----------



## chiefs

Josep said:


> Ecnl at this age group is awful.  You have two strong teams and one mediocre team.
> 
> AR’s Strikers/Blues squad and Slammers Ecnl.
> 
> Arsenal is still good but considering how much they lost to legends DA.
> 
> The rest is very weak.  Why do people still rate ecnl especially at 03 level?


The truth does hurt, but that's how alot of people assessed ECNL at this age group.


----------



## SocalPapa

Pitch pop said:


> My prediction is that neither socal league (ECNL/DA) will do well in their respective playoffs later this summer.


I expect the better teams from So Cal to do well, as always.  On another thread I posted the RPI for each of the U15 GDA teams.  5 of the top 11 teams were from So Cal.  And the Strikers 03 ECNL team is a legit national title contender.


----------



## Hdyldemapples

I’m sorry if this has already been answered.
Is the DA 03 Pilot the same as 03 DPL just a new name, but now they will have practices 4 days a week and no more high school soccer?  Or is the 2003 DA Pilot separate from the DPL?


----------



## cerebro de fútbol

Hdyldemapples said:


> I’m sorry if this has already been answered.
> Is the DA 03 Pilot the same as 03 DPL just a new name, but now they will have practices 4 days a week and no more high school soccer?  Or is the 2003 DA Pilot separate from the DPL?


I believe the actual DA 03 Pilot is only in the Frontier Division.  The DPL 03 Pilot is meant to mirror that program in the Southwest Division.  Perhaps that's why the announcement says that the DPL 03 Pilot Teams will play as "guest teams" in two DA showcases "to compete against  U-16 DA Pilot Program teams from the Frontier Division."   No need to be a guest team if DPL was actually DA.


----------



## Mackerel Sam

Hdyldemapples said:


> I’m sorry if this has already been answered.
> Is the DA 03 Pilot the same as 03 DPL just a new name, but now they will have practices 4 days a week and no more high school soccer?  Or is the 2003 DA Pilot separate from the DPL?


The official communciation feels fuzzy on this and the communication from our club has been lacking on this specific issue (and all other issues, truth be told). However, based on tenuous wisps of information gathered here and there, I personally believe that the DPL 03 pilot is an additional team to the existing DPL 03 team. The existing team will continue with the previous rules (HS soccer included) and the new pilot 03 team will play under the DA rules.


----------



## timmyh

Texas jumps on the DPL bandwagon... 
https://www.lonestar-sc.com/news/post/us-youth-soccer-announces-frontier-development-league-fdl-within-the-usys-national-league-frontier-conference-for-girls

I assume these will be the club's that Socal DPL teams will play in showcases.


----------



## Real Deal

Mackerel Sam said:


> The official communciation feels fuzzy on this and the communication from our club has been lacking on this specific issue (and all other issues, truth be told). However, based on tenuous wisps of information gathered here and there, I personally believe that the DPL 03 pilot is an additional team to the existing DPL 03 team. The existing team will continue with the previous rules (HS soccer included) and the new pilot 03 team will play under the DA rules.


But is anyone clear on whether this 03 DPL Pilot group will play in the DA _league_?  Or are they just playing in the DPL with a couple of DA showcases.


----------



## Hdyldemapples

Real Deal said:


> But is anyone clear on whether this 03 DPL Pilot group will play in the DA _league_?  Or are they just playing in the DPL with a couple of DA showcases.


ECNL is sounding better and better.  This is ridiculous.  

To USSDA:
Just name it 03 DA (not “DA 03 Pilot” or “DPL 03 Pilot” or “DPL 03 with same structure as DA, but not the 03 DPL that practices 2 days a week and can play high school soccer” and now  “FDL in Frontier”) and be done with it already!!


----------



## Mackerel Sam

Real Deal said:


> But is anyone clear on whether this 03 DPL Pilot group will play in the DA _league_?  Or are they just playing in the DPL with a couple of DA showcases.


Well - I'm not sure what that really means. Whether you call it part of the DA or not, who would they play besides each other?


----------



## Real Deal

Mackerel Sam said:


> Well - I'm not sure what that really means. Whether you call it part of the DA or not, who would they play besides each other?


Well of course, when you play in a league, you play with the other teams in the league.  For example:  The 04 GDA in SoCal plays _each othe_r in the Southwest Region USSDA LEAGUE.  Will the 03 Pilot group play each other in the Southwest Region USSDA LEAGUE,  or in the CALSOUTH run DPL LEAGUE?  That's my question


----------



## Hired Gun

Real Deal said:


> Well of course, when you play in a league, you play with the other teams in the league.  For example:  The 04 GDA in SoCal plays _each othe_r in the Southwest Region USSDA LEAGUE.  Will the 03 Pilot group play each other in the Southwest Region USSDA LEAGUE,  or in the CALSOUTH run DPL LEAGUE?  That's my question


03 Pilot is test group in the Southwest and Frontier Region.  Basically USSDA is looking to test a single age 03 division similar to the 04 single age division.  They are a bit different than DPL - can't play high school and only plays other Pilot teams.  In Showcases they probably will play the Frontier Division.  There is still a 02-03 division next year as well.  The better 03's will play the 02-03 division the other 90 percent will play 03 pilot.  The remaining DPL.  Good chance the following year they remove the Pilot term and have 05, 04, 03, 01-02 together....


----------



## Lambchop

Overtime said:


> That is the question...will they get the same attention or will they be the guests in the far corner? Just remember these teams are not US Soccer sanctioned and not part of the DA.   DPL Pilot is asking girls to give up CRL, National Cup, High School, outside showcases/tournaments and to play in a league with no standings or playoffs.  In return they are guests at 2 DA showcases.  Each family will have to decide if the trade offs are worth it.


The 03 DA Pilot program is only in the Frontier and Southwest and it is US sanctioned. Do not confuse it with the DPL program.


----------



## jpeter

Lambchop said:


> The 03 DA Pilot program is only in the Frontier and Southwest and it is US sanctioned. Do not confuse it with the DPL program.


Really? Is there something official from ussda on that? Haven't seen anything on their site about any sanctioning or any mention of this at all.

Our 2002 daughter plays DA and next year her age group in a combination 02/03 and the only pure age group teams will be playing in different leagues according to what our club told us.  The affiliated clubs are the ones planning on doing the Cal South DPL again.


----------



## Fact

jpeter said:


> Really? Is there something official from ussda on that? Haven't seen anything on their site about any sanctioning or any mention of this at all.
> 
> Our 2002 daughter plays DA and next year her age group in a combination 02/03 and the only pure age group teams will be playing in different leagues according to what our club told us.  The affiliated clubs are the ones planning on doing the Cal South DPL again.


You are correct the 03 DPL pilot in the Southwest is not sanctioned by USSDA but that is what the tracksuit wearing used car salesmen want you to believe. Originally the DPL site originally included the USSoccer logo on the announcement but has since taken that down.

Please call US Soccer if you do not believe me, it is not sanctioned.


----------



## Soccer

All you need to know:

http://dpleague.org/docs/pilot_program_release.pdf


----------



## MWN

Take a step back, let me explain:

When the DA was formed for the girls, they created "composite" age groups for the HS girls (U16/U17 and U18/U19), which is consistent with the pyramid structure.  But they didn't mirror the current boys DA structure, they shortened it by excluding U12 and U13.  Thus, the girls side goes U14, U15 and narrows up to the HS age groups.

*DA's U13 Pilot Program*
Now, the various clubs said, whoaaaa, we have a some youngers that we would like in the DA.  The DA said, no, our National Team doesn't even start until U15, but we will create a SINGLE pilot program within the DA structure to see if its worthwhile.  They picked the "Frontier" Division, which is Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, etc., and the USSF created a *U13 pilot program*.

*The DA's U13 Pilot program IS NOT the same as the DPL's U16 Pilot program*.  The U13 Frontier Pilot is a USSDA league, anything DPL and NPL is not.

But...but...but what about the DPL press release?  Hang on, I'll get to that.

*DPL, FPL, etc.*

Appreciate that the DA clubs have got a problem, they have no U12-U13 teams (yet, but let's see how that Frontier Pilot program works out), they have U14 and U15 parents/players that are sold on the DA, but when it comes to the composite age U16/U17, they are going to lose half their money ... err ... players.

_What to do?  What do do?  _
The Solution: These SoCal DA Clubs created the DPL and expanded the age groups to U13 and made each year a single age group through U17 with U18/U19 being the only composite age group, which serves 2 purposes.  First, it lets them add U13 and park their composite youngers U16 and allows them to send parents a "DA II ... but not DA ... but DA II ... wink, wink) sales pitch (DPL is our DA player pool).  Parents loved it, sign my daughter up.

The DPL concept is now being embraced by some other parts of the world and US Youth Soccer is willing to sanction these DPL teams under its umbrella.  The Frontier Players League (Texas/Colorado version of the DA) is being embraced and sanctioned by USYS as an actual National League conference.  Will the DPL move to the National League?  Stay tuned, my money is on "yes."

*DPL's U16 Pilot Program*
The DPL released this: http://dpleague.org/docs/pilot_program_release.pdf

Which states in relevant part:
_As part of the programming for the *DPL U16* age group, those teams will *participate as guest teams* in the U.S. Soccer Development Academy *Winter Showcase and Summer Showcases*, to compete against *U-16 DA Pilot Program teams from the Frontier Division*._​
What we can conclude/infer is that the DPL is going to make this years U16 teams (i.e. 2003s) adhere to the same restrictions as the DA 2003/2002 Composite team and they will not only play in the U16 DPL, but will play two DA showcases as guests against the yet to be publicly acknowledge U-16 DA Pilot Program.

The problem and confusion here is the USSDA has yet to announce any U16 Pilot program for the Frontier Division or the Southwestern Division.  The DPL's announcement makes it very clear that their *DPL Pilot Program is not, however, sanctioned by the DA*, only that these clubs will play as guests in a showcase (further evidence it IS NOT a DA sanctioned league).

*In Conclusion*

The US DA U13 - Frontier division is an actual DA sanctioned gaming circuit.
The US DA U16 - Frontier division MAY SOON EXIST, but has not been announced.  Other than the DPL press release, I have found nothing on this.
The DPL is not a DA sanctioned gaming circuit, rather, its sanctioned by US Youth Soccer / Cal South.
The DPL U16 Pilot Program is going to follow the same restrictions as the DA imposes and play in two showcases, but will continue to play in the USYS/Cal South sanctioned leagues (National League, CRL, DPL)
The Frontier Players League (FPL) is not a DA sanctioned gaming circuit, rather, it is sanctioned by US Youth Soccer / Texas


----------



## Fact

^what he said.

But to be absolutely clear the DPL 03 pilot is not part of DA.


----------



## El Clasico

I dunno...Lambchoppy is so much more credible and if she says the DPL '03 pilot program is DA, then it must be DA.  She's a straight shooter without any obvious bias.


----------



## Fact

El Clasico said:


> I dunno...Lambchoppy is so much more credible and if she says the DPL '03 pilot program is DA, then it must be DA.  She's a straight shooter without any obvious bias.


You are right. Otherwise it would not be fair.


----------



## Desert Hound

Well I have been going back and forth on these forums looking for mere scraps of information that could possibly point my DD in the right direction.

I think now the only piece of the puzzle missing is the following. Does DPL have a patch? ECNL does and GDA does. Without a patch I think DPL may be at a disadvantage as we consider where the DD should pursue her soccer dreams.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Desert Hound said:


> Well I have been going back and forth on these forums looking for mere scraps of information that could possibly point my DD in the right direction.
> 
> I think now the only piece of the puzzle missing is the following. Does DPL have a patch? ECNL does and GDA does. Without a patch I think DPL may be at a disadvantage as we consider where the DD should pursue her soccer dreams.


DPL has a patch!


----------



## Desert Hound

Simisoccerfan said:


> DPL has a patch!


That is fantastic news! As a parent one must always pay attention to the things that really matter.


----------



## Mackerel Sam

Simisoccerfan said:


> DPL has a patch!


Not only does it have a patch. It uses the same font as the DA. In fact, I'd swear it looks almost DA approved....


----------



## Sons of Pitches

Where can you get a good mint jelly?  I always like mint jelly with my roasted lamb.


----------



## zags77

https://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/six-girls-da-clubs-expand-to-compete-in-frontier-development-league/

_"The FDL program will follow the same curriculum, guidelines and high level training environment as the full DA program; however, it will also allow players the freedom to play high school soccer, participate in extracurricular activities, re-enter matches after substitution, as well as compete in State Cup. Additionally, the FDL will offer players the most sought after college exposure opportunities by coordinating match schedules with the DA."_


----------



## Mackerel Sam

zags77 said:


> https://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/six-girls-da-clubs-expand-to-compete-in-frontier-development-league/
> 
> _"The FDL program will follow the same curriculum, guidelines and high level training environment as the full DA program; however, it will also allow players the freedom to play high school soccer, participate in extracurricular activities, re-enter matches after substitution, as well as compete in State Cup. Additionally, the FDL will offer players the most sought after college exposure opportunities by coordinating match schedules with the DA."_


Apparently they have common sense in Texas.


----------



## MWN

Lambchop said:


> The 03 DA Pilot program is only in the Frontier and Southwest and it is US sanctioned. Do not confuse it with the DPL program.


I have yet to find any confirmation or other information that the DA has created a pilot program for the 2003 age group.  The DPL press release clearly states the 03 pilot program is a DPL initiative, but infers there is a 2003 DA pilot program in the Frontier division.  Is there any documentation out there that confirms your belief?


----------



## Josep

How many ways can we skin a cat?

Does it matter if it’s DA sanctioned, whether you can play HS, whether it is or isn’t the DPL from last year.  Everyone knows from their club what it is and nobody is being held at gunpoint to play it. 

Don’t play the pilot if you don’t want.  Or play it. 

Are people that hesitant to play next year?  If you fall in this age group, your kid needs to play regardless of where you land.

There were DA 03s, ECNL 03s and probably some flight 1/premier kids who committed.  

Its what you make of your situation.


----------



## SoccerFan

MWN said:


> I have yet to find any confirmation or other information that the DA has created a pilot program for the 2003 age group.  The DPL press release clearly states the 03 pilot program is a DPL initiative, but infers there is a 2003 DA pilot program in the Frontier division.  Is there any documentation out there that confirms your belief?


The offer our club made clearly states “2003 Pilot Academy Team”


----------



## Fact

SoccerFan said:


> The offer our club made clearly states “2003 Pilot Academy Team”


When will you people learn. The 03 Pilot in the Southwest is not sanctioned nor part of US Soccer/DA. I know this for a fact.  Call US Soccer.  While I agree that you should have your dd play on the most appropriate team regardless of title, it should make you wonder why all the smoke and mirrors to give you the impression that it is part of DA.


----------



## Chris Knight

MWN said:


> I have yet to find any confirmation or other information that the DA has created a pilot program for the 2003 age group.  The DPL press release clearly states the 03 pilot program is a DPL initiative, but infers there is a 2003 DA pilot program in the Frontier division.  Is there any documentation out there that confirms your belief?


Frontier has a U16 ('02) pilot this year.  Same thing next year for the '03s ...
Nothing new.


----------



## Desert Hound

Fact said:


> When will you people learn. The 03 Pilot in the Southwest is not sanctioned nor part of US Soccer/DA. I know this for a fact.  Call US Soccer.  While I agree that you should have your dd play on the most appropriate team regardless of title, it should make you wonder why all the smoke and mirrors to give you the impression that it is part of DA.


In the end it doesn't matter if Frontier division is sanctioned by US Soccer and the DPL 03 pilot is not.

It is a difference without a distinction. The 03 pilot in Frontier is playing just the the other Frontier 03 pilot teams. In the DPL those 03 teams are playing the other 03 teams.

Both leagues can send those 03 teams to some showcases to play other 03 teams.

This pilot 03 age group sanctioned or not is simply a place to park kids who are not good enough to make the 03/02 team.

The end result is the same.


----------



## SoccerFan

Desert Hound said:


> In the end it doesn't matter if Frontier division is sanctioned by US Soccer and the DPL 03 pilot is not.
> 
> It is a difference without a distinction. The 03 pilot in Frontier is playing just the the other Frontier 03 pilot teams. In the DPL those 03 teams are playing the other 03 teams.
> 
> Both leagues can send those 03 teams to some showcases to play other 03 teams.
> 
> This pilot 03 age group sanctioned or not is simply a place to park kids who are not good enough to make the 03/02 team.
> 
> The end result is the same.


Or simply continue developing these same kids that will eventually make the 2003 DA team a year from now!


----------



## Fact

Desert Hound said:


> In the end it doesn't matter if Frontier division is sanctioned by US Soccer and the DPL 03 pilot is not.
> 
> It is a difference without a distinction. The 03 pilot in Frontier is playing just the the other Frontier 03 pilot teams. In the DPL those 03 teams are playing the other 03 teams.
> 
> Both leagues can send those 03 teams to some showcases to play other 03 teams.
> 
> This pilot 03 age group sanctioned or not is simply a place to park kids who are not good enough to make the 03/02 team.
> 
> The end result is the same.


The disctinction is that many like Lampchop are being mislead into believing it is sanctioned and possibly paying more for a false
name and false bragging rights.


----------



## LadiesMan217

Fact said:


> The disctinction is that many like Lampchop are being mislead into believing it is sanctioned and possibly paying more for a false
> name and false bragging rights.


False name and bragging rights are much better than what most people are paying for


----------



## Fact

LadiesMan217 said:


> False name and bragging rights are much better than what most people are paying for


Now I have heard it all. Just  sad.


----------



## Desert Hound

SoccerFan said:


> Or simply continue developing these same kids that will eventually make the 2003 DA team a year from now!


I agree with that. Just saying sanctioned or not fdl or dpl do the same thing


----------



## jose

DPL plays fewer games. They are not a 'reserve' team Clubs are bringing up 05 and 06 players instead of worthy DPL players.  So this is just a tier 1/ tier 2, gold/ silver, ECNL /EGSL or main team/sister team system.  Renaming it doesn't maki anything other than an old system


----------



## Simisoccerfan

jose said:


> DPL plays fewer games. They are not a 'reserve' team Clubs are bringing up 05 and 06 players instead of worthy DPL players.  So this is just a tier 1/ tier 2, gold/ silver, ECNL /EGSL or main team/sister team system.  Renaming it doesn't maki anything other than an old system


Multiple DPL players have moved up at our club.


----------



## G03_SD

Simisoccerfan said:


> Multiple DPL players have moved up at our club.


What age group? Are spots opening up on DA team because kids quit DA?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

G03_SD said:


> What age group? Are spots opening up on DA team because kids quit DA?


01/02.  It’s a combination of things as far as I can tell. One or two girls left earlier in the year and some injuries.  The original team is basically the ECNL girls.  The DPL girls that have moved full time probably should have made the team from the beginning since they are all playing a lot and are doing well.


----------



## LadiesMan217

G03_SD said:


> What age group? Are spots opening up on DA team because kids quit DA?


TMK - Only 1 kid has quit DA at our club and she quit because of pressure from other players (she didn't belong). Another 4 were replaced with DPL players and offered DPL but I am sure they tell others they 'quit'. 3 moved to ECNL teams, 1 DPL, and other ???. Only one stayed with the club.


----------



## Fact

LadiesMan217 said:


> TMK - Only 1 kid has quit DA at our club and she quit because of pressure from other players (she didn't belong).


Well isn’t that special. Players doing the coach’s job to make another player feel so unwelcome that she quits; and all because they have decided that she does not belong.  You must be so proud.

People like you are what ruins sports for kids.


----------



## LadiesMan217

Fact said:


> Well isn’t that special. Players doing the coach’s job to make another player feel so unwelcome that she quits; and all because they have decided that she does not belong.  You must be so proud.
> 
> People like you are what ruins sports for kids.


The kid sucked and the other players were tired of it. Was it your kid?

BTW - she quit just before getting the boot. Coach probably happy.


----------



## meatsweats

LadiesMan217 said:


> The kid sucked and the other players were tired of it. Was it your kid?
> 
> BTW - she quit just before getting the boot. Coach probably happy.


All for players telling teammates they need to step it up. But to alienate a teammate and force her out. Wrong! On all levels. No matter if she sucks or not. Agree with Fact. Nobody should be proud of this outcome. There are players on my DD's team that aren't super strong and get minimal time, but they are still part of the team and very encouraging kids and they deserve respect. Off and ON the field. Let the season play out and if they don't make DA, so be it. Give them the opportunity to prove themselves or not. That's the coaches job to decide.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Fact said:


> Now I have heard it all. Just  sad.


Only cause you have a particular distain for A few of the “track suits” that started the league


----------



## LadiesMan217

meatsweats said:


> All for players telling teammates they need to step it up. But to alienate a teammate and force her out. Wrong! On all levels. No matter if she sucks or not. Agree with Fact. Nobody should be proud of this outcome. There are players on my DD's team that aren't super strong and get minimal time, but they are still part of the team and very encouraging kids and they deserve respect. Off and ON the field. Let the season play out and if they don't make DA, so be it. Give them the opportunity to prove themselves or not. That's the coaches job to decide.


Who alienated  a player and forced her out? Stop making up stories like a snowflake. Some kids go to the sidelines and cry when asked to step it up by their peers. It is up to the coach or the player to decide. In this case the player decided and made the right decision.


----------



## El Clasico

LadiesMan217 said:


> The kid sucked and the other players were tired of it. Was it your kid?
> 
> BTW - she quit just before getting the boot. Coach probably happy.


If I were the coach, I would be happy too. After all, I am here to win, not teach. Development? Not my problem, that's someone else's job? Why the hell would you sign up for the Delusion Academy if you weren't WNT quality?


----------



## MarkM

El Clasico said:


> If I were the coach, I would be happy too. After all, I am here to win, not teach. Development? Not my problem, that's someone else's job? Why the hell would you sign up for the Delusion Academy if you weren't WNT quality?


What's the alternative in SoCal?  With the exception of a few teams, ECNL is pretty bad this year.  Mine has to give up the option to play HS soccer to play with better competition.  Mine would ask, why the hell would you choose to play against inferior competition?  

Good luck with that chip on your shoulder.  It tastes salty.


----------



## Pollo Elastico

So back to DPL stuff. This coming year it appears that the DPL clubs will offer a full schedule of games...ie home and away vs a rather limited schedule this year. 

Does that make DPL attractive in comparison to ECNL in the SW area?


----------



## Fact

Kicker4Life said:


> Only cause you have a particular distain for A few of the “track suits” that started the league





LadiesMan217 said:


> False name and bragging rights are much better than what most people are paying for





Fact said:


> Now I have heard it all. Just  sad.


@Kicker my comment was directed at this lame comment.  Based on his other comments, I don't feel he made this statement jokingly.
I have no problem with DPL other than it is another league that waters down teams and causes more travel. I would have been happy if there was only Presidio and CSL. To make more money and maintain control, adults are using kids.
You are right thou that I do not like the tracksuit wearing used car salesmen.  Although Duggan had a hand in creating DPL,  I believe that LAGSD is trying to do the right thing, i.e. develop players.  They have moved up DPL players and a lot of their teams have always been homegrown. On their website they call the DPL Pilot "DPL Pilot."
However Ginns is a crook.  He also had a hand in creating DPL and is the one that was using the name DA 2 until US Soccer put a end to it.  Now he is calling the DPL Pilot "DA-DPL."  Based on my conversations with coaches and parents, Albion is the one that is actively telling DPL players that they are part of US Soccer's DA program.   This is just plain dishonest


----------



## Fact

LadiesMan217 said:


> Who alienated  a player and forced her out?





LadiesMan217 said:


> TMK - Only 1 kid has quit DA at our club and she quit because of pressure from other players (she didn't belong).


I believe you said she was forced out by her teammates snowflake.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Pollo Elastico said:


> So back to DPL stuff. This coming year it appears that the DPL clubs will offer a full schedule of games...ie home and away vs a rather limited schedule this year.
> 
> Does that make DPL attractive in comparison to ECNL in the SW area?


I would say my answer is a qualified no.   The vast majority of DPL players will not get a chance to move to the DA.   So for those girls if they can make an ECNL team it would be a much better option.   For the very few girls that realistically have a chance to get moved to the DA, then if playing DA is their goal the DPL offers a better path for moving up within a season.   But this is a very small minority.


----------



## Mystery Train

Simisoccerfan said:


> I would say my answer is a qualified no.   The vast majority of DPL players will not get a chance to move to the DA.   So for those girls if they can make an ECNL team it would be a much better option.   For the very few girls that realistically have a chance to get moved to the DA, then if playing DA is their goal the DPL offers a better path for moving up within a season.   But this is a very small minority.


Simi, did your player get moved up to DA this year?


----------



## meatsweats

LadiesMan217 said:


> Who alienated  a player and forced her out? Stop making up stories like a snowflake. Some kids go to the sidelines and cry when asked to step it up by their peers. It is up to the coach or the player to decide. In this case the player decided and made the right decision.


Are you mental? YOU were the one that said the kids forced her out. My kid isn't looking to move anywhere, but I'd love to know who your DD plays for, so I could avoid at all costs and warn others. And I'm ok with being called a snowflake. Was that supposed to insult me? 

In case you need help remembering what you wrote, see below.... 

LadiesMan217 said: ↑
TMK - Only 1 kid has quit DA at our club and she quit because of pressure from other players (she didn't belong).

LadiesMan217 said: ↑
The kid sucked and the other players were tired of it. Was it your kid?

BTW - she quit just before getting the boot. Coach probably happy.


----------



## Fact

meatsweats said:


> Are you mental? YOU were the one that said the kids forced her out. My kid isn't looking to move anywhere, but I'd love to know who your DD plays for, so I could avoid at all costs and warn others. And I'm ok with being called a snowflake. Was that supposed to insult me?
> 
> In case you need help remembering what you wrote, see below....
> 
> LadiesMan217 said: ↑
> TMK - Only 1 kid has quit DA at our club and she quit because of pressure from other players (she didn't belong).
> 
> LadiesMan217 said: ↑
> The kid sucked and the other players were tired of it. Was it your kid?
> 
> BTW - she quit just before getting the boot. Coach probably happy.


Count me as 1 vote for mental and arrogant.


----------



## Gokicksomegrass

meatsweats said:


> Are you mental? YOU were the one that said the kids forced her out. My kid isn't looking to move anywhere, but I'd love to know who your DD plays for, so I could avoid at all costs and warn others. And I'm ok with being called a snowflake. Was that supposed to insult me?
> 
> In case you need help remembering what you wrote, see below....
> 
> LadiesMan217 said: ↑
> TMK - Only 1 kid has quit DA at our club and she quit because of pressure from other players (she didn't belong).
> 
> LadiesMan217 said: ↑
> The kid sucked and the other players were tired of it. Was it your kid?
> 
> BTW - she quit just before getting the boot. Coach probably happy.


Nah, man. You don't understand. He is preparing his DD to go hard for the mean streets of Santa Clara U, you know the
Jesuits, ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ hard core. Broncos 4 Life, bro.


----------



## Soccer

Pollo Elastico said:


> So back to DPL stuff. This coming year it appears that the DPL clubs will offer a full schedule of games...ie home and away vs a rather limited schedule this year.
> 
> Does that make DPL attractive in comparison to ECNL in the SW area?


Yes I hear DPL, will be more of a league this year.  Fall and Spring, no National Cup.   They will play some other DPL conferences in National Final.  I hear Texas for sure will
have a DPL of some sort.  

Anyone else hear this?


----------



## Pollo Elastico

Soccer said:


> Yes I hear DPL, will be more of a league this year.  Fall and Spring, no National Cup.   They will play some other DPL conferences in National Final.  I hear Texas for sure will
> have a DPL of some sort.
> 
> Anyone else hear this?


Yes. 

Here is a club in AZ talking about it. 
https://www.rsl-az.com/page/show/4154415-girls-dpl


----------



## SocalPapa

Soccer said:


> Yes I hear DPL, will be more of a league this year.  Fall and Spring, no National Cup.   They will play some other DPL conferences in National Final.  I hear Texas for sure will
> have a DPL of some sort.
> 
> Anyone else hear this?


There are some very good teams in DPL, but if my DD were on one of those teams, I wouldn't be happy about this.  Only 14 of the 36 2003-2000 So Cal DPL teams made the Round of 16 in National Cup this year.  Now it seems the 14 good DPL teams will have to give up playing other good teams in National Cup (and other tournaments) in exchange for playing the 21 weak DPL teams twice.

@Simisoccerfan, I recall you saying the imbalance in DPL didn't matter because it was only a few games out of the season.  What's your view on this change?


----------



## Soccer

Maybe the teams will become stronger now?

Just talking out loud.

All of these 2nd tier  leagues have good ideas, bad implementation.  Hope this is not the case.


----------



## Lambchop

Fact said:


> The disctinction is that many like Lampchop are being mislead into believing it is sanctioned and possibly paying more for a false
> name and false bragging rights.


How are  they paying more?  Dumb.  Where did you get that idea?  Except for the "freebies", they are paying no matter what league they are in.


----------



## Speed

Can someone tell me, I am sure it's here somewhere but it's a very long thread, what a DPL season looks like in southern Ca? Months of play, number games, location of games last year? If you play DPL I assume you don't play SCDSL? Just the basics please


----------



## sdb

Schedule from DPL site:

http://primetimesportz.bonzidev.com/schedules

Looks like 9 games in the Fall last year


----------



## Speed

sdb said:


> Schedule from DPL site:
> 
> http://primetimesportz.bonzidev.com/schedules
> 
> Looks like 9 games in the Fall last year


Thank you! I couldn't find it!,


----------



## Fact

Fact said:


> The disctinction is that many like Lampchop are being mislead into believing it is sanctioned and possibly paying more for a false
> name and false bragging rights.





Lambchop said:


> How are  they paying more?  Dumb.  Where did you get that idea?  Except for the "freebies", they are paying no matter what league they are in.


If you look what I said, I used the phrase "Possibly paying more."  I don't know what your club charges but this season I looked into the cost of DPL vs the 3rd team at Albion. Despite the same number of hours of training per week and same season length, DPL teams paid a few hundred more than the 3rd teams.  Plus they had to travel to Arizona for 1 league game.  Two of their DPL teams would have been fine playing in Presidio and two could have played in CSL. So tell me what the extra $ was for, the patch?


----------



## outside!

Fact said:


> So tell me what the extra $ was for, the patch?


NG?


----------



## Fact

outside! said:


> NG?


That's right. It paid for his office on Prospect Street.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Mystery Train said:


> Simi, did your player get moved up to DA this year?


Yes. She had the offer to go full time just before HS or play HS.  She is a junior and she chose to play HS knowing she won’t get to play next year.  She now appears to be one of the 5-6 players that consistently goes the full 90 minutes.  It’s been an amazing year so far.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

SocalPapa said:


> There are some very good teams in DPL, but if my DD were on one of those teams, I wouldn't be happy about this.  Only 14 of the 36 2003-2000 So Cal DPL teams made the Round of 16 in National Cup this year.  Now it seems the 14 good DPL teams will have to give up playing other good teams in National Cup (and other tournaments) in exchange for playing the 21 weak DPL teams twice.
> 
> @Simisoccerfan, I recall you saying the imbalance in DPL didn't matter because it was only a few games out of the season.  What's your view on this change?


We are no longer playing DPL but I think having a full DPL season mimicking the DA season is a good thing.  I would be in favor of not playing National Cup and much fewer tournaments for DPL teams as long as they can attract college coaches when they play.  After about the age of 14, I am a big fan of fewer games.  There is no way girls at this age can play two games a day and still play at 100%.  In fact I much prefer just one game a weekend.  Kids need to be in an environment where they practice hard every practice and fight for the right for playing time on the weekend.  Playing time needs to be earned when they get older and play at the higher levels.


----------



## 3JMommy

"Kids need to be in an environment where they practice hard every practice and fight for the right for playing time on the weekend."

I would agree with this for the top 1%-5% of players from ages 15 up. Kids that are extremely self driven, and passionate about their sport will thrive in that environment and that's where the DA makes sense.  The majority of kids at age 12 up will enjoy being in a competitive environment, an environment where they will be challenged and rewarded by growth and development (that should also translate to playing time). That is different from a pressure filled environment where every practice performance is scrutinized and measured by people who have no investment in them as a person. Most of theses girls will be done playing soccer after high school. Some will play in college. Almost none will go any further. The DA should be for players who have that high intensity drive and desire for soccer- that top 1%-5%. Everyone else should be playing on a team commensurate with their skill level and desire. There is no need (IMHO) to add 2-3 other leagues to fill some non-existent gap in player development. It just further dilutes the quality of coaching, and of play for the other 95%--which makes attendance a tougher sell to those college coaches if that is what your player is after.


----------



## Mystery Train

Simisoccerfan said:


> Yes. She had the offer to go full time just before HS or play HS.  She is a junior and she chose to play HS knowing she won’t get to play next year.  She now appears to be one of the 5-6 players that consistently goes the full 90 minutes.  It’s been an amazing year so far.


Sounds like the DPL system worked perfectly for your player.  Congrats and good luck to her!  

In your opinion, do you think she should have been rostered on the DA team from the start, or did she need to do some work / step up her game in order to get to the level needed?


----------



## jpeter

27 pages of discussion for a 9 game fringe league.  Not really sure how those games really make any difference compared to just about any thing else.

These closed leagues are not benefiting very many players so why have a self serving platform that really is just a gimmick for the clubs?

The boys seem to do fine without another league and there are plenty to choose anyway including local leagues like players seasonal psslu which offer good comp at the young ages.

This dpl offering reminds me of "new" coke a product nobody really asked for or liked but was pushed down commericaly in a attempt to bring in more $ since the parent was losing market share.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Mystery Train said:


> Sounds like the DPL system worked perfectly for your player.  Congrats and good luck to her!
> 
> In your opinion, do you think she should have been rostered on the DA team from the start, or did she need to do some work / step up her game in order to get to the level needed?


It is hard to answer this question objectively without parental bias but I will try.  I think it is a bit of both.  She is definitely a better player than last year and the DA training environment has really allowed her to grow as a player but this all occurred after she started practicing with the DA and playing with them as a DP.  She tried out for two DA teams last June but we were a bit late to the tryout process when our previous team suddenly fell apart.  Both clubs essentially moved their entire ECNL teams over to the DA and they both had pretty full rosters before considering any new players.   We were also moving clubs and had not previously played ECNL.  I felt she belonged from Day 1 but I was aware that could just have been my parental bias working.   So we took a gamble with DPL and trusted that if she was talented enough, eventually it would work out.


----------



## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> We played the second place SCDSL Champions Division team to a draw and in my opinion we had better chances to win than them.  I know most will not like hearing this but for 2001's DPL is more competitive that the Champions division.  I think DPL is on the right track.


For 2001s, National Cup seems to have played out just about as I would have predicted.  6 Champions teams in the Sweet 16 and 5 DPL teams.  I still consider it a shame that the formation of DPL made it impossible for all or most of those 11 teams to play in the same league this season.  This is what dilution looks like.

*SCDSL Champions
League Rank..Team..League Points..National Cup So Far *
1 Crescenta Valley SC G01..23..*Sweet 16 *
2 CDA Slammers FC - HB G01 Elite..20..*Sweet 16 *
3 SGV Surf G01 SB/HH..20..*Sweet 16 *
4 So Cal Rush G01..19..2nd place group K, rd 1 (but failed to advance as wild card)
5 FC Premier 2001 - Coerver Elite..16..2nd place group J, rd 1 (but failed to advance as wild card)
6 CDA Slammers FC - Cerritos G01 Martinez..15..*Sweet 16 *
7 South Slammers FC Elite G01..15..*Sweet 16 *
8 CDA Slammers FC - HB G01 EGSL..10..*Sweet 16 *
9 San Diego Soccer Club G2001 Academy Navy..8..3rd place group D, rd 1
10 Anaheim Surf Soccer Club G2001 Carrillo..7..Had a #1 rd 1 seed but forfeited
11 LA Galaxy South Bay Girls 2001 Elite..0..4th place group K

*DPL*
1 Legends FC DPL 2001..24..*Sweet 16 *
2 LA Premier FC DPL 2001..18..*Sweet 16 *
2 Real So Cal DPL 2001..16..*Sweet 16 *
4 Beach FC DPL 2001..13..*Sweet 16 *
5 SC del Sol DPL 2001..12..Did not compete
6 LA Galaxy DPL 2001..12..Had a bye, 3rd in group B, rd 2
7 Pateadores DPL 2001..11..*Sweet 16 *(managed to advance even though they earned only 3 points in the 2nd round)
8 Eagles SC DPL 2001..10..4th place group E, rd 1
9 LA Galaxy San Diego DPL 2001..5..Had a bye but forfeited
10 Albion SC DPL 2001..4..Had a bye, finished 4th in group E, rd 2


----------



## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> We are no longer playing DPL but I think having a full DPL season mimicking the DA season is a good thing.  I would be in favor of not playing National Cup and much fewer tournaments for DPL teams as long as they can attract college coaches when they play.  After about the age of 14, I am a big fan of fewer games.  There is no way girls at this age can play two games a day and still play at 100%.  In fact I much prefer just one game a weekend.  Kids need to be in an environment where they practice hard every practice and fight for the right for playing time on the weekend.  Playing time needs to be earned when they get older and play at the higher levels.


I agree with that sentiment and appreciate your taking the time to respond, but I wasn't asking about playing more or fewer games.  I was asking about playing more games against DPL teams in exchange for the games you used to play against quality opponents in major tournaments.  In other words, and considering the numbers above, if your DD were on Legends' DPL team would you rather play your way to a potential championship in National Cup (and at least get to play some of those top SCDSL teams once) or give that up so you can play a second league game against Albion and LAGSD?


----------



## Josep

jpeter said:


> 27 pages of discussion for a 9 game fringe league.  Not really sure how those games really make any difference compared to just about any thing else.
> 
> These closed leagues are not benefiting very many players so why have a self serving platform that really is just a gimmick for the clubs?
> 
> The boys seem to do fine without another league and there are plenty to choose anyway including local leagues like players seasonal psslu which offer good comp at the young ages.
> 
> This dpl offering reminds me of "new" coke a product nobody really asked for or liked but was pushed down commericaly in a attempt to bring in more $ since the parent was losing market share.



I think the confusion comes on between the 9 game dpl league from this season and what the 03 pilot league will be next season, which is very different.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

SocalPapa said:


> I agree with that sentiment and appreciate your taking the time to respond, but I wasn't asking about playing more or fewer games.  I was asking about playing more games against DPL teams in exchange for the games you used to play against quality opponents in major tournaments.  In other words, and considering the numbers above, if your DD were on Legends' DPL team would you rather play your way to a potential championship in National Cup (and at least get to play some of those top SCDSL teams once) or give that up so you can play a second league game against Albion and LAGSD?


I think my answer was clear.  I would rather play less games and a league schedule that continues into the Spring then play National Cup and various other spring tournaments.   DA and ECNL don't play National Cup and I don't see why DPL should need to play it either.   I know most everyone here wants DPL to play SCDSL and CSL teams so that the can figure out who is best but if development is the focus that really shouldn't matter.  Now I would have a big issue if the DPL teams don't get exposure to college coaches but except for the round of 16 and later there are not many coaches around.


----------



## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> I know most everyone here wants DPL to play SCDSL and CSL teams so that the can figure out who is best but if development is the focus that really shouldn't matter.


Wrong Pansy. People don't want more leagues that water down teams and don't want more travel.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Fact said:


> Wrong Pansy. People don't want more leagues that water down teams and don't want more travel.


  Fiction, every single post you make here shows your true colors. It’s amazing that you continue to post since you don’t even have kids playing soccer. I have lost hope that you ever contribute even one positive, thoughtful post that adds value to this site.


----------



## Josep

SocalPapa said:


> I agree with that sentiment and appreciate your taking the time to respond, but I wasn't asking about playing more or fewer games.  I was asking about playing more games against DPL teams in exchange for the games you used to play against quality opponents in major tournaments.  In other words, and considering the numbers above, if your DD were on Legends' DPL team would you rather play your way to a potential championship in National Cup (and at least get to play some of those top SCDSL teams once) or give that up so you can play a second league game against Albion and LAGSD?



There’s no championship in National Cup. It’s a farce.  There are more than a dozen top teams that don’t even play.   This has been the case since the ecnl/egsl days and now within DA and the pilot, the 03 national cup next year will even be worse.  

But everyone picks where they go and they can be satisfied with their decision.


----------



## gkrent

Josep said:


> There’s no championship in National Cup. It’s a farce.  There are more than a dozen top teams that don’t even play.   This has been the case since the ecnl/egsl days and now within DA and the pilot, the 03 national cup next year will even be worse.
> 
> But everyone picks where they go and they can be satisfied with their decision.


Its not a farce if college coaches are still attending the semis/finals and or regionals.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

gkrent said:


> Its not a farce if college coaches are still attending the semis/finals and or regionals.


So out of 60-80 teams competing per age group its okay if only 4 teams get in front of any coaches?  That is a waste of time for most teams.


----------



## Fact

Josep said:


> There’s no championship in National Cup. It’s a farce.  There are more than a dozen top teams that don’t even play.   This has been the case since the ecnl/egsl days and now within DA and the pilot, the 03 national cup next year will even be worse.
> 
> But everyone picks where they go and they can be satisfied with their decision.


Irregardless of level it is still a Championship.


----------



## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> Fiction, every single post you make here shows your true colors. It’s amazing that you continue to post since you don’t even have kids playing soccer. I have lost hope that you ever contribute even one positive, thoughtful post that adds value to this site.


Why don't you tell me what my true colors are Pansy?

You are wrong is you think the reason people want to DPL to play SCDSL/CSL is so that they can compare who is better.  Most parents and players just want a larger pool of teams so that they can play closer to home. That is in the best interest of everyone.


----------



## gkrent

Simisoccerfan said:


> So out of 60-80 teams competing per age group its okay if only 4 teams get in front of any coaches?  That is a waste of time for most teams.


Well obviously its not a college showcase, but the coaches must think there is some talent to look at in later rounds.


----------



## Josep

A question i would have about DPL is will there be video access of the 03 pilot.  College coaches told me that DA video was instrumental in their scouting or recruiting. 

They can attend a single game but if a kid goes off, was it a fluke or a consistent thing. Same with a poor game.  

We’ve had college coaches at many of our regular season games - not showcases, just our Saturday games.  

If the pilot has that access, it is likely worth it, if that’s what you’re looking for.


----------



## Justafan

Simi, since day one you've been trying to justify DPL's creation and attempting to distinguish it from all the other leagues and in essence claiming DPL as superior in status.  Look at your own words, you're basically saying DPL is "too good" to do what the other leagues do and should follow what the elite leagues do.   



Simisoccerfan said:


> DA and ECNL don't play National Cup and I don't see why DPL should need to play it either.


Is that not smug and arrogant?



Simisoccerfan said:


> I know most everyone here wants DPL to play SCDSL and CSL teams so that the can figure out who is best


You have it backwards Simi, you and all the other DPL defenders began to refer to DPL as inherently superior to all the other leagues.  Some of us knew exactly what DPL was from the get go.   There was no need to play each other because other than adding DPL to the end of the team name, these were the same teams and coaches we all played before.




Simisoccerfan said:


> but if development is the focus that really shouldn't matter.


Oh, so now you're all about development?  If it's all about development, you should have been against DPL's creation in the first place.  And for the record, if this new "Discovery" league waters down the competition I will be against it.  There's no need for it.


----------



## 3JMommy

Justafan said:


> Simi, since day one you've been trying to justify DPL's creation and attempting to distinguish it from all the other leagues and in essence claiming DPL as superior in status.  Look at your own words, you're basically saying DPL is "too good" to do what the other leagues do and should follow what the elite leagues do.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that not smug and arrogant?
> 
> 
> 
> You have it backwards Simi, you and all the other DPL defenders began to refer to DPL as inherently superior to all the other leagues.  Some of us knew exactly what DPL was from the get go.   There was no need to play each other because other than adding DPL to the end of the team name, these were the same teams and coaches we all played before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, so now you're all about development?  If it's all about development, you should have been against DPL's creation in the first place.  And for the record, if this new "Discovery" league waters down the competition I will be against it.  There's no need for it.





Fact said:


> Why don't you tell me what my true colors are Pansy?
> 
> You are wrong is you think the reason people want to DPL to play SCDSL/CSL is so that they can compare who is better.  Most parents and players just want a larger pool of teams so that they can play closer to home. That is in the best interest of everyone.


I don't care as much about closer to home, but the dilution of talent amongst the teams. Every single team in the age group is impacted every time they try to slice a new piece of the pie.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Justafan said:


> Simi, since day one you've been trying to justify DPL's creation and attempting to distinguish it from all the other leagues and in essence claiming DPL as superior in status.  Look at your own words, you're basically saying DPL is "too good" to do what the other leagues do and should follow what the elite leagues do.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that not smug and arrogant?
> 
> 
> 
> You have it backwards Simi, you and all the other DPL defenders began to refer to DPL as inherently superior to all the other leagues.  Some of us knew exactly what DPL was from the get go.   There was no need to play each other because other than adding DPL to the end of the team name, these were the same teams and coaches we all played before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, so now you're all about development?  If it's all about development, you should have been against DPL's creation in the first place.  And for the record, if this new "Discovery" league waters down the competition I will be against it.  There's no need for it.


Actually since Day 1 there has been a very strong bias against DPL on this site.  I am sure I could pull up those posts.  Since my dd participated in DPL unlike many of those against it all I have done is try and share our experience with it.  I have never said that DPL is superior to SCDSL or CSL regardless of what you think my words mean.   I have not said that DPL is too good to do what other leagues are doing.  Your trying to twist my words to feed your own agenda.  

Once again let me be very clear with my opinion.  DPL is the 2nd teams for those clubs that are DA and don't have ECNL.  ECNL is a far better option than DPL unless a girl really wants to make a DA team and is one of the very few DPL girls that stands the chance of getting moved up.  It's a toss up on whether DA or ECNL overall is better and this is in flux with all of the changes occurring.   I have said before that there are number of SCDSL and CSL teams that are as good or better than the top DPL teams.   Overall its my opinion that the depth of DPL is a bit better than CSL Premier or Flight 1 but I know many of you want agree.  

Finally, my opinion about not playing National Cup is not because I think DPL is better than other leagues.  I just think National cup has been diluted through the years and now is a waste of time.  I think DPL, CSL, and SCDSL should all be playing league games during the spring instead and only attending top showcase events that attract coaches.  Also my view on development is that it occurs mostly during practice and all of these top teams need to stop playing so many games (including two or more in a day) so that every game is meaningful.


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## Simisoccerfan

Fact said:


> Why don't you tell me what my true colors are Pansy?
> 
> You are wrong is you think the reason people want to DPL to play SCDSL/CSL is so that they can compare who is better.  Most parents and players just want a larger pool of teams so that they can play closer to home. That is in the best interest of everyone.


Fiction, your reason makes no sense.  Whether you play a DPL team in National Cup or some other team your still traveling to the same place.   SCDSL does a good job with their regional brackets.  Champions bracket and Premier have teams all over So Cal the same as DPL so the travel for league would be no different.  So either its back to wanting bragging rights or you think that many of the DPL teams are good and you wish you were playing these teams instead of some other teams.   I still don't understand why you care or even spend the time to post here (other than it fills some void you have) since you don't even have kids playing.


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## gkrent

3JMommy said:


> I don't care as much about closer to home, but the dilution of talent amongst the teams. Every single team in the age group is impacted every time they try to slice a new piece of the pie.


Proof is the three-way tie in the Round 2 Pool A of the 2001 girls group


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## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> Fiction, your reason makes no sense.  Whether you play a DPL team in National Cup or some other team your still traveling to the same place.   SCDSL does a good job with their regional brackets.  Champions bracket and Premier have teams all over So Cal the same as DPL so the travel for league would be no different.  So either its back to wanting bragging rights or you think that many of the DPL teams are good and you wish you were playing these teams instead of some other teams.   I still don't understand why you care or even spend the time to post here (other than it fills some void you have) since you don't even have kids playing.


So Pansy, I guess DPL teams did not go to Arizona for a league game?


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## Simisoccerfan

Fact said:


> So Pansy, I guess DPL teams did not go to Arizona for a league game?


We didn’t.  Only about 1/2 the teams went.  Next year it appears the trip will be for two games on a weekend.


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## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> We didn’t.  Only about 1/2 the teams went.  Next year it appears the trip will be for two games on a weekend.


And that makes it all worth it.LOL


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## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> Actually since Day 1 there has been a very strong bias against DPL on this site.  I am sure I could pull up those posts.  Since my dd participated in DPL unlike many of those against it all I have done is try and share our experience with it.  I have never said that DPL is superior to SCDSL or CSL regardless of what you think my words mean.   I have not said that DPL is too good to do what other leagues are doing.  Your trying to twist my words to feed your own agenda.[/QUOUTE]
> 
> Those were your words I quoted and your response here is exactly what I've been saying.  Your silence as to whether DPL was necessary in the first place means you condone its formation.  Or at least your constant defense of it based on your positive experiences gives the impression that you condone it.  Was DPL Necessary?  This has always been my biggest pet peeve.  My second pet peeve is that people automatically put it above other leagues in terms of hierarchy.


I have said before that there are number of SCDSL and CSL teams that are as good or better than the top DPL teams.   Overall its my opinion that the depth of DPL is a bit better than CSL Premier or Flight 1 but I know many of you want agree.  [/QUOTE]

Read these two sentences to yourself and tell me anyone who reads them is not going to assume DPL is the top league?  Simi, you try hard to appear diplomatic, but you can't help yourself, you always have to throw in a "DPL" is superior dig.  These are your words my friend.  As to what is reality regarding overall depth, let's not leave it up to opinion, let a numbers person figure it out.


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## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> Actually since Day 1 there has been a very strong bias against DPL on this site.  I am sure I could pull up those posts.  Since my dd participated in DPL unlike many of those against it all I have done is try and share our experience with it.  I have never said that DPL is superior to SCDSL or CSL regardless of what you think my words mean.   I have not said that DPL is too good to do what other leagues are doing.  Your trying to twist my words to feed your own agenda.


Those were your words I quoted and your response here is exactly what I've been saying.  Your silence as to whether DPL was necessary in the first place means you condone its formation.  Or at least your constant defense of it based on your positive experiences gives the impression that you condone it.  Was DPL Necessary?  This has always been my biggest pet peeve.  My second pet peeve is that people automatically put it above other leagues in terms of hierarchy.


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## SocalPapa

I always appreciate your willingness to weigh in @Simisoccerfan.  My response:

61% of the 2003-2000 DPL teams that registered for National Cup this year failed to advance to the round of 16.  So if National Cup is "diluted and a waste of time" then surely the same could be said of DPL itself (doubly so next season as the good teams will be forced to play the weak teams twice).

The idea of teams just playing each other in league over and over (except for a few showcases) sounds terrible to me.  Yes, training is important, but that doesn't mean that games are wholly unimportant.  DA and ECNL start out with much better competition to begin with and then allow better teams to play each other at the end of the year.  You are proposing essentially a year's worth of scrimmages for lesser teams of far more varying quality.

I think you know my view at this point, which is that development requires playing teams of similar talent.  My DD spent a short stint on lower level club some years ago, and while the 10-0 victories were fun for some parents, it did nothing for her development.   Similarly, we have a friend whose daughter had been a star who could take any opponent 1 on 1 (or even 1 on 3).  But now that she's facing improved competition she has become a liability for her team because she repeatedly holds on to the ball too long and turns it over.  She's a great athlete, but her bad habits are so ingrained I don't know if she'll ever be able to adjust at this point.  Yes, part of the blame goes to her coaches for not forcing a change earlier.  But I don't see her picking up those bad habits if she had played better competition earlier.

In any event, if the good DPL and SCDSL players hope to beat the odds and join a college roster after playing in those leagues, I don't see how spending more and more of the year playing weak teams helps them achieve that goal.


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## Simisoccerfan

Justafan said:


> Those were your words I quoted and your response here is exactly what I've been saying.  Your silence as to whether DPL was necessary in the first place means you condone its formation.  Or at least your constant defense of it based on your positive experiences gives the impression that you condone it.  Was DPL Necessary?  This has always been my biggest pet peeve.  My second pet peeve is that people automatically put it above other leagues in terms of hierarchy.


Justafan,  just because it is my opinion that DPL’s depth is better doesn’t mean I think it is superior.  Those are two different things in my mind.  Flight 1 has way more teams with a greater spread of talent from top to bottom in my opinion.  Also the Rebels is likely the best team among these leagues.  I think it’s on par with Champions and Premier.   I do condone DPL based on my dd’s actual experience in it.  Regarding whether it is necessary I had nothing to do with it’s formation.  Obviously the clubs that formed it though it was necessary.  For us it was a means to and end and it worked as advertised for us.


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## Dummy

Simisoccerfan said:


> ...SCDSL does a good job with their regional brackets.  Champions bracket and Premier have teams all over So Cal the same as DPL so the travel for league would be no different.  So either its back to wanting bragging rights or you think that many of the DPL teams are good and you wish you were playing these teams instead of some other teams.


I wish my daughter’s SCDSL team was still playing fall league with some of the big club DPL teams.  From what I see at National Cup, the big club DPL teams have many of the same second team players that we had been playing for years, so my guess is that the games would be just as competitive now as they always were - with or without the DPL patch.

We now are forced to drive past these clubs to play less competitive teams who have been promoted to fill the vacancies created by their DPL teams’ departures.  Fortunately, we have it better than some of the big club DPL teams that have to drive Phoenix to play games.  In either case, this is an unnecessary waste of time and money.

Beach, Legends and Real So Cal, please come home!


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## 3JMommy

gkrent said:


> Proof is the three-way tie in the Round 2 Pool A of the 2001 girls group


Yes--and most of the leagues cut exactly the same--the top 20% win 80-90% of the games --seems that way for DA, DPL, ECNL, CSL, and top couple flights of SCDSL. There are not enough premium players to form this many premium teams. Would look so much better to have 1/2 or 1/3 of these teams and get some good even competition among the girls. There was a post that suggested a true pool of players for DA, where week in week out the roster could be changed with different players from the pool. I love this idea for those kids who are really committed and driven in regard to soccer. That could leave the rest of the teams to play in a league structured similar to SCDSL or Coast and participate in tournaments that college coaches could attend (sounds so pie in the sky, I know...).


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## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> I do condone DPL based on my dd’s actual experience in it.  Regarding whether it is necessary I had nothing to do with it’s formation.


I didn't ask whether you had anything to do with its creation.  I am asking you whether you believe (your opinion) there was a need to create this league?


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## Simisoccerfan

SocalPapa said:


> I always appreciate your willingness to weigh in @Simisoccerfan.  My response:
> 
> 61% of the 2003-2000 DPL teams that registered for National Cup this year failed to advance to the round of 16.  So if National Cup is "diluted and a waste of time" then surely the same could be said of DPL itself (doubly so next season as the good teams will be forced to play the weak teams twice).
> 
> The idea of teams just playing each other in league over and over (except for a few showcases) sounds terrible to me.  Yes, training is important, but that doesn't mean that games are wholly unimportant.  DA and ECNL start out with much better competition to begin with and then allow better teams to play each other at the end of the year.  You are proposing essentially a year's worth of scrimmages for lesser teams of far more varying quality.
> 
> I think you know my view at this point, which is that development requires playing teams of similar talent.  My DD spent a short stint on lower level club some years ago, and while the 10-0 victories were fun for some parents, it did nothing for her development.   Similarly, we have a friend whose daughter had been a star who could take any opponent 1 on 1 (or even 1 on 3).  But now that she's facing improved competition she has become a liability for her team because she repeatedly holds on to the ball too long and turns it over.  She's a great athlete, but her bad habits are so ingrained I don't know if she'll ever be able to adjust at this point.  Yes, part of the blame goes to her coaches for not forcing a change earlier.  But I don't see her picking up those bad habits if she had played better competition earlier.
> 
> In any event, if the good DPL and SCDSL players hope to beat the odds and join a college roster after playing in those leagues, I don't see how spending more and more of the year playing weak teams helps them achieve that goal.


There is always a danger in numbers since you can use them without understanding the full picture.  I took a look at the National Cup results to see what is going on.  You can't include the 2000's for DPL since almost all of these teams are actually 1999 teams and most of those teams have stopped playing.  So if you look at the 2001-2003 age groups there were 190 teams entered (this includes 26 DPL teams).   5 out of the 8 DPL teams for the 2001 age group advanced to the round of 16 (one forfeited).  5 out of the 9 DPL teams for the 2002 age group advanced.  3 out of the 9 DPL teams for the 2003 age group advanced to the round of 16.  So this means 13 out of the 26 teams have advanced to the round of 16 which is 50%.   There are only 48 teams in these age groups in the round of 16 so with 190 teams entered only 25% of the teams advance.  So DPL has advanced to the round of 16 at Twice the normal rate.  Another way of looking at this is 13/26 DPL teams advanced (50%) and only 35/164 of the other teams advanced (21%).   

Now I looked specifically at the Champions bracket of SCDSL and 15 out of the 30 teams entered advanced for the same 50% advancement rate.  Looking at CSL Premier 6 out of the 27 teams advanced for a 22% advancement rate.  So this data would seem to indicate the DPL and Champions League are similar to each other but both are far better than CSL Premier and the rest of Flight 1.   The funny thing is that CSL teams are probably favored to win 2 of these age groups.


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## Simisoccerfan

Justafan said:


> I didn't ask whether you had anything to do with its creation.  I am asking you whether you believe (your opinion) there was a need to create this league?


No and I am on the record stating there was no need to create SCDSL either.  But we deal with the hand we are dealt.  No use complaining about it.


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