# DA...ECNL...where?



## Desert Hound

So now that the season has started...where have the players ended up? 

Did most go to DA clubs?

How has ECNL been affected? Substantially different in terms of quality this coming year? 

And I suspect on the older end less incentive to move?

In AZ it didn't make too much of a difference. We had 2 ECNL teams and now we have 1 DA and 1 ECNL. On the older end there was not that much movement from Sereno to del Sol. 

At the 04 end del Sol was aggressive in recruiting and got some good players. This year Sereno has new leadership and made a concerted push and I think their 04 team will end up better vs years past. I have not seen the 04 del Sol team play but would have to assume their 04 team is better vs 04 Sereno. 

The DA2 teams out here seem average. It would SEEM that if a kid didn't get on the DA team most opted not to go del Sol DA2.


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## Mystery Train

My impression:  
In the younger ages, DA has taken a large number of kids out of ECNL teams, basically shifting the balance from ECNL to DA.  In the older ages, seems like the impact has been to water down both sides.  The DA teams (the ones I'm familiar with anyway) have added some of the players they wanted but have a bunch that they still aren't sure about and the ECNL teams had to scramble and bring up players from their EGSL teams or undergo major turn-over.  If what I read on another thread is true, the older Blues teams will now certainly dominate ECNL (even more) because they took the approach of making their second teams the DA teams and keeping their top teams ECNL in the olders.  With the other ECNL teams weakened by DA defections, look for some ugly scores in the Blues 02 games.  Not that it was particularly close last year anyway.


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## Dos Equis

Mystery Train said:


> My impression:
> In the younger ages, DA has taken a large number of kids out of ECNL teams, basically shifting the balance from ECNL to DA.  In the older ages, seems like the impact has been to water down both sides.  The DA teams (the ones I'm familiar with anyway) have added some of the players they wanted but have a bunch that they still aren't sure about and the ECNL teams had to scramble and bring up players from their EGSL teams or undergo major turn-over.  If what I read on another thread is true, the older Blues teams will now certainly dominate ECNL (even more) because they took the approach of making their second teams the DA teams and keeping their top teams ECNL in the olders.  With the other ECNL teams weakened by DA defections, look for some ugly scores in the Blues 02 games.  Not that it was particularly close last year anyway.


There will be some lopsided scores in both DA and ECNL, but you might want to lo0k at the scores of the Blues '02 ECNL games so far (and in the past) before making too many predictions about this year being more lopsided.  In '02 ECNL, Blues, Arsenal, Strikers and Surf (so I have heard) had very few players "defect" to DA, and some rosters may have improved. For girls who are committed or deep in the process, the appeal of moving to DA is often overshadowed by other factors, including having time for academics so you actually remain eligibile for admission (and are prepared for success) at that highly ranked school you want to attend.


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## Mystery Train

Dos Equis said:


> There will be some lopsided scores in both DA and ECNL, but you might want to lo0k at the scores of the Blues '02 ECNL games so far (and in the past) before making too many predictions about this year being more lopsided.  In '02 ECNL, Blues, Arsenal, Strikers and Surf (so I have heard) had very few players "defect" to DA, and some rosters may have improved. For girls who are committed or deep in the process, the appeal of moving to DA is often overshadowed by other factors, including having time for academics so you actually remain eligibile for admission (and are prepared for success) at that highly ranked school you want to attend.


I did notice a slip late in the tournament season, that showed signs that others were closing the gap, so I hope you're right.


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## Outlier

At least three girls on our ECNL team were actively recruited by DA coaches and truly offered spots. They turned down the offers to participate in more than one sport, play for school teams or to have more control over the "fourth day" of practice, scheduling privates, etc., when it works for them. Time will tell if this affects their college prospects. It will be interesting to see what happens when the current middle schoolers on DA teams hit high school - will they still love the game enough to accept the time commitment and potentially limited playing time of DA (for girls 12-18) when school becomes more demanding and life becomes more complex? Or will ECNL start to look more appealing. (True national team-level  prospects not withstanding.)


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## El Clasico

It is unfortunate that in this day and age, parents don't have enough common sense to guide their children in the right direction. The sheer number of DA teams in the So Cal region demonstrates that.  How many DA teams? How many on each roster?  How many elite players is that? I don't see it. Since a large percentage of girls playing DA won't even be playing college ball, it is incredulous that parents push their kids in that direction.(love when full of sh*t parents post - their choice, not mine) Some of these parents don't really understand the trade-off that they are making for their kids. Play in DA so the parents can brag to EVERYONE about it while costing their child ALL the benefits of playing for their home town team and school. Now, on the plus side for everyone else, it just got a lot easier for your child to get into an elite school since their grades haven't suffered due to all the extra training days, travel days, far away showcases, etc.


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## beachbum

El Clasico said:


> It is unfortunate that in this day and age, parents don't have enough common sense to guide their children in the right direction. The sheer number of DA teams in the So Cal region demonstrates that.  How many DA teams? How many on each roster?  How many elite players is that? I don't see it. Since a large percentage of girls playing DA won't even be playing college ball, it is incredulous that parents push their kids in that direction.(love when full of sh*t parents post - their choice, not mine) Some of these parents don't really understand the trade-off that they are making for their kids. Play in DA so the parents can brag to EVERYONE about it while costing their child ALL the benefits of playing for their home town team and school. Now, on the plus side for everyone else, it just got a lot easier for your child to get into an elite school since their grades haven't suffered due to all the extra training days, travel days, far away showcases, etc.


I agree with most of what you are saying except a large portion of the DA players will play in college.  If you look at the statistics of how many from the ECNL played college and now plug that into the DA, the numbers will be high.  There are after all something like 4300 Div 1 scholarships= + D2, D3.
The fact of the matter is, that there will be maybe a total of 2 or 3 girls from each age group in the entire country that will ever make the WNT.  As it stands now there are 75 DA clubs with 1200 girls per age group.  So yes get a grip, let them have fun.


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## Kicker4Life

Lots of Hater-Aide and Generalizations....{face palm}


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## SocalPapa

Dos Equis said:


> There will be some lopsided scores in both DA and ECNL, but you might want to lo0k at the scores of the Blues '02 ECNL games so far (and in the past) before making too many predictions about this year being more lopsided.  In '02 ECNL, Blues, Arsenal, Strikers and Surf (so I have heard) had very few players "defect" to DA, and some rosters may have improved. For girls who are committed or deep in the process, the appeal of moving to DA is often overshadowed by other factors, including having time for academics so you actually remain eligibile for admission (and are prepared for success) at that highly ranked school you want to attend.


Yes, seems to be a minimal impact on '02 ECNL.  Of the DA roster's I've looked at:

1) Legends 01/02:   Only three 2002 birth year players on the roster.  Transferred from: Legends FC G02 Academy I (flight 1 team), Arsenal FC ECNL, and Legends FC G01 Academy (playing up flight 1)

2) Beach 01/02: seven '02 players; all 7 had previously played on their Beach FC G02 Academy team (SCDSL flight 1).

3) West Coast FC's 01/02:  have three 02 players on their Academy team; all 3 came over from their ECNL team.

4) Socal Blues 01/02: Mostly '02s, but most from the disbanded So Cal Blues Holley 02 Flight 1 team.  There are also 5 former WCFC 02 ECNL players though.

5) Pateadores 01/02: have three '02 players, from 1) Slammers ECNL, 2) CDA Slammers FC - HB 02 Elite EGSL (Flight 1), and 3) a girl that seems to have been playing up with a Chelsea SC 2000 team.

6) LA Galaxy 01/02: have two '02 players, from 1) Beach FC G02 Academy team (flight 1), 2) one girl who played Arsenal ECNL

7) Legends FC 01/02: have four '02 players, two from Legends FC G02 Academy I (flight 1) and 1 each from Arsenal FC ECNL and Legends FC G01 Academy (flight 1)


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## bababooey

El Clasico said:


> It is unfortunate that in this day and age, parents don't have enough common sense to guide their children in the right direction. The sheer number of DA teams in the So Cal region demonstrates that.  How many DA teams? How many on each roster?  How many elite players is that? I don't see it. Since a large percentage of girls playing DA won't even be playing college ball, it is incredulous that parents push their kids in that direction.(love when full of sh*t parents post - their choice, not mine) Some of these parents don't really understand the trade-off that they are making for their kids. Play in DA so the parents can brag to EVERYONE about it while costing their child ALL the benefits of playing for their home town team and school. Now, on the plus side for everyone else, it just got a lot easier for your child to get into an elite school since their grades haven't suffered due to all the extra training days, travel days, far away showcases, etc.


El Clasico, I think you are making a few too many generalizations about the GDA. Yes, I do believe some parents were quick to jump at the DA chance for their dd not totally recognizing the commitment needed time-wise or the reality that once their dd is subbed out of the game, she is done for the game. I also agree that there are too many DA teams in So Cal (and there are/were too many ECNL teams in So Cal), but these elite leagues are always filled with parents willing to pay the fees, so I cannot really blame the clubs or governing bodies.

I disagree with your point about college soccer. First off, since we are in the first year of GDA, there is no way to gauge your statement. However, I think you will see a much higher percentage of GDA and ECNL players playing in college versus SCDSL, Presidio, CSL, etc. players.

I have stated before that the commitment to GDA was too much for my dd (her opinion and mine). She is in her first year of high school and we both agree that academics is more important that soccer at least for this year. We can reassess next year and see if pursuing a DA spot is right for her. Although I don't think she will give up HS soccer for GDA.

Lastly, I think there are plenty of GDA players who can commit to the extra soccer along with maintaining great grades that would get them into an elite school. Different strokes for different folks.


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## casper

DA, ECNL, DPL, ECNL Reserve, SCDSL, CSL, Presidio, and any other league that anyone's dd plays for good luck and have fun.  I don't post much anymore despite having two daughters still in the game.  I find reading through a majority of the posts they tend to be emotionally driven, either positive or negative based on the experience of the poster. Generalizations are also the theme, unless its kid specific to that poster.  It's hard to draw any specific conclusions on the success or failure of the DA based on a few weeks. Also with the combined 01/02 age groups it's hard to measure the impact DA had on the 02 ECNL team's as only 54 players or roughly 24% of the DA 01/02 Southwest conference is made up of 02s.  You would get a better idea at the 03 and 04 levels for that comparison.  I have learned over the years that even parents and players on the same team can have two completely different experiences, so generalizations don't work when it comes to club soccer.  My best advice would be to enjoy the little things and the family time you get to spend with your dd on this journey. Let your dd carve her own path on the pitch and regardless where that takes her support her.    There is enough to worry about in their teen years than worrying about playing time, which league is the best, which team is the best, or which program deserves what.  It all comes to an end one day for all our dds. All the trophies, medals, are meaningless, to the life lessons learned, friendships, travel, and their memories they will cherish.  One day they might be a parent and pass down their love and passion for the game to their kids.  If we are blessed we will be around to watch them play, a little wiser, and a lot older hopefully (lol).  Good luck out on the pitch this season and I hope all your dd's have a great year.


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## Mystery Train

casper said:


> DA, ECNL, DPL, ECNL Reserve, SCDSL, CSL, Presidio, and any other league that anyone's dd plays for good luck and have fun.  I don't post much anymore despite having two daughters still in the game.  I find reading through a majority of the posts they tend to be emotionally driven, either positive or negative based on the experience of the poster. Generalizations are also the theme, unless its kid specific to that poster.  It's hard to draw any specific conclusions on the success or failure of the DA based on a few weeks. Also with the combined 01/02 age groups it's hard to measure the impact DA had on the 02 ECNL team's as only 54 players or roughly 24% of the DA 01/02 Southwest conference is made up of 02s.  You would get a better idea at the 03 and 04 levels for that comparison.  I have learned over the years that even parents and players on the same team can have two completely different experiences, so generalizations don't work when it comes to club soccer.  My best advice would be to enjoy the little things and the family time you get to spend with your dd on this journey. Let your dd carve her own path on the pitch and regardless where that takes her support her.    There is enough to worry about in their teen years than worrying about playing time, which league is the best, which team is the best, or which program deserves what.  It all comes to an end one day for all our dds. All the trophies, medals, are meaningless, to the life lessons learned, friendships, travel, and their memories they will cherish.  One day they might be a parent and pass down their love and passion for the game to their kids.  If we are blessed we will be around to watch them play, a little wiser, and a lot older hopefully (lol).  Good luck out on the pitch this season and I hope all your dd's have a great year.


With that kind of contribution, please post more often!


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## Simisoccerfan

Dos Equis said:


> There will be some lopsided scores in both DA and ECNL, but you might want to lo0k at the scores of the Blues '02 ECNL games so far (and in the past) before making too many predictions about this year being more lopsided.  In '02 ECNL, Blues, Arsenal, Strikers and Surf (so I have heard) had very few players "defect" to DA, and some rosters may have improved. For girls who are committed or deep in the process, the appeal of moving to DA is often overshadowed by other factors, including having time for academics so you actually remain eligibile for admission (and are prepared for success) at that highly ranked school you want to attend.


Very few 02 girls "defected" because they are on the younger side of the 01/02 age group and most of those DA players are 01's.  I know a number of girls already committed that are still playing DA.  If you ask their future college coaches they likely want them playing at the highest level to get ready for college.


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## Kicker4Life

casper said:


> DA, ECNL, DPL, ECNL Reserve, SCDSL, CSL, Presidio, and any other league that anyone's dd plays for good luck and have fun.  I don't post much anymore despite having two daughters still in the game.  I find reading through a majority of the posts they tend to be emotionally driven, either positive or negative based on the experience of the poster. Generalizations are also the theme, unless its kid specific to that poster.  It's hard to draw any specific conclusions on the success or failure of the DA based on a few weeks. Also with the combined 01/02 age groups it's hard to measure the impact DA had on the 02 ECNL team's as only 54 players or roughly 24% of the DA 01/02 Southwest conference is made up of 02s.  You would get a better idea at the 03 and 04 levels for that comparison.  I have learned over the years that even parents and players on the same team can have two completely different experiences, so generalizations don't work when it comes to club soccer.  My best advice would be to enjoy the little things and the family time you get to spend with your dd on this journey. Let your dd carve her own path on the pitch and regardless where that takes her support her.    There is enough to worry about in their teen years than worrying about playing time, which league is the best, which team is the best, or which program deserves what.  It all comes to an end one day for all our dds. All the trophies, medals, are meaningless, to the life lessons learned, friendships, travel, and their memories they will cherish.  One day they might be a parent and pass down their love and passion for the game to their kids.  If we are blessed we will be around to watch them play, a little wiser, and a lot older hopefully (lol).  Good luck out on the pitch this season and I hope all your dd's have a great year.


Welcome back @casper, it's been a while.  Hope all is well.


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## splinter

As a parent of 2 / 2004's I can tell you it was a pretty easy decision in the first year to give DA a try.  Fully funded, still have one more year till high school and being able to continue with a large group of girls that have become good friends over the last 4 years made the decision easier.  Next year will be the tough decision as school loads get tougher and playing with their high school friends and the chance to play other sports become a bigger factor.  For now we are enjoying the extra practices they get along with the first class treatment academy affords.  Great fields, water stations, easy ups, trainers and video taping are all part of experience.  If my girls decide to change next year I have no problem with taking them to ecnl.  It is a proven entity and is not going anywhere.  ECNL also allows the girls a chance to play in some more tournaments as well.


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## timbuck

I was talking with  an parent of an kid on an 04 DA team.  He said that the kid really liked it and was thriving.  But he felt that 4 days a week of mandatory practice with driving back and forth to the Great Park was a bit too much.  And he wasn't looking forward to a 10 month season with no real breaks.
He said he would be leaving future decisions up to her, but he was secretly hoping for a different route in the future.


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## jose

TCD said:


> I don't have any insight to DA2 teams so can't speak to that. I do know that the switch to DA will impact some of our local HS teams. I think my daughter's HS team had at least 6 players that won't be returning bc of DA.


The DA will allow HS soccer this year. Going forward they are going to reevaluate


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## Simisoccerfan

What I have heard is individual DA programs are telling girls no HS.  Which makes sense since DA games start back up on January 20th right in the middle of HS season.  HS does not allow outside play.  Do you really think DA is going to allow their teams to be weaker for 2 months waiting for HS to end?


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## jose

Simisoccerfan said:


> What I have heard is individual DA programs are telling girls no HS.  Which makes sense since DA games start back up on January 20th right in the middle of HS season.  HS does not allow outside play.  Do you really think DA is going to allow their teams to be weaker for 2 months waiting for HS to end?


i emailed US soccer that is what they replied to me. i would believe individuals are definitely saying that. they are just selfish. if my kid had to make that choice i would encourage HS. if a kid is talented enough they will let her play after school season is over


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## Kicker4Life

timbuck said:


> I was talking with  an parent of an kid on an 04 DA team.  He said that the kid really liked it and was thriving.  But he felt that 4 days a week of mandatory practice with driving back and forth to the Great Park was a bit too much.  And he wasn't looking forward to a 10 month season with no real breaks.
> He said he would be leaving future decisions up to her, but he was secretly hoping for a different route in the future.


Funny....many that I know in the '03 and '04 age range went DA or DPL so they would NOT have to travel so far to play ECNL.  Just proves that every case is different and who are we to say what is best for someone else.


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## SocalPapa

I think a lot of us are just trying to understand how the landscape has changed.  It has changed a lot, especially in Southern California (with our TWO new closed leagues).  So I have really appreciated the insights people with knowledge on the topic have been sharing on this site.

In the hope of adding something of value to the conversation, I did some research to try to get a sense of how the national landscape has changed this year.  Here's what I found out (I don't guaranty the following is 100% accurate, but it should be pretty close):

*1) What happened to last season's ECNL clubs?*

Last season there were 84 ECNL clubs nationally.  Of those, 66 are still in ECNL.  Of the 66 that came back, 14 are dual DA-ECNL.  It appears all 18 that left ECNL are now DA-only clubs.  At quick glance the 14 dual DA-ECNL seem by and large to have been among the most successful clubs in ECNL's history.  The 18 that left to become DA-only, perhaps less successful.  (But I'll reserve final judgment on that.)

The change from 2016-17 in the Southwest ECNL Conference was as follows:

Now Dual DA-ECNL:
So Cal Blues
Slammers FC
San Diego Surf
West Coast FC

Still ECNL-Only:
Strikers FC
Arsenal FC
Heat FC
Sereno SC

Left ECNL and Now DA-Only:
SC del Sol
Eagles SC
Real So Cal

So 8 of 11 teams in So Cal's regional ECNL conference are back.  (There is a separate issue as to how rosters might have changed.   The roster impact likely varied by age group, as others have noted above.)

*2) What teams joined ECNL?*

Though 18 clubs left ECNL, they were replaced by only 14 (to bring the total back up to 80 nationwide).  In the Southwest Conference the *Del Mar Sharks* were the only new club invited to join (meaning our area conference is down 2 teams).

*3) Where did the rest of the DA clubs come from?*

There are 69 total DA clubs.  As indicated above, 31 DA clubs were in ECNL last year (14 still are).  That means there are 38 clubs that, for whatever reason, did not participate in ECNL previously and are now DA.  Though they are without ECNL experience these 38  clubs now claim they can offer a more elite soccer experience than has ever existed for girls before.

In the case of So Cal, that could theoretically be possible.  The non-ECNL clubs that joined DA are pretty good.  They include:

Albion SC
Beach Futbol Club
LA Galaxy FC
LA Galaxy San Diego
Legends FC
Los Angeles Premier Futbol Club
Pateadores

*4) What are the odds of DA players earning a spot on the USWNT?*

Not high enough to give any serious thought to.  There are 23 or so roster spots on the USWNT.  Current players range in age from 19 to 32 (spanning 14 different age groups).  Assuming DA rosters average 20 players, the 69 DA clubs might have 27,000 or more players over 14 different age groups.  So the odds would probably less than one in a thousand, even if you assumed all future USWNT players will come out of DA.

*5) My daughter plays for ECNL (or DA).  How big will her college scholarship be?*

I estimate there's fewer than 4,000 Division I and Division II partial women's soccer scholarships handed out to each graduating high school class.  ECNL was very good at placing players on college teams.  But there used to be 84 ECNL teams and are now 149 DA and ECNL teams each year combined (ignoring the dual age years).  Nevertheless, the odds of earning a partial scholarship still look pretty good.   ECNL and DA would seemingly graduate only about 3,000 players a year who might be the first to compete for those 4,000 scholarships.  (And that's not accounting for other levels of college soccer that some ECNL and DA players might choose to play, including none at all.)

That said, the average Div I women's soccer scholarship is $17,121.  For Div. II it's $7,756.  If you are looking for financial help for your daughter to attend college, a much smarter investment would be to hire a tutor and have her study year-round for the PSAT.  If she makes National Merit Finalist she'd get an automatic 1/2 tuition scholarship at USC (worth about $26,000 annually).  A side benefit is your child's odds of actually getting into USC would be much better too!

*6) Where does the Development Player League (DPL) Fit In?
*
Personally, I don't know.  The 10 DPL clubs in our region are the only DA teams in the country that decided to form a second closed league like this.  I've heard the DPL clubs argue that it is needed because they don't have an ECNL team.  But that seams pretty weak given that there are 69 DA clubs nationally and only 14 are dual DA-ECNL.  Given the success the dual clubs had in ECNL, you can see why they stuck with it.  It doesn't otherwise seem like there is a compelling reason to have a second team participating in a closed league.  And given that DPL is not national, a closed league would seem to limit opportunities, if anything.  The only purpose I can imagine is as a marketing tool to try to draw more top players to their clubs, which is part of the reason I've been so critical of DPL in my other posts, including of their decision to hide their rosters this fall.  But I recognize others may have a different view, especially DPL parents and those directly involved in the league's founding.

*7) Is DA a good thing?*

That's both subjective and to be determined.  If this becomes simply a fight for market share between DA and ECNL clubs (which it has kind of started out to be given that most clubs joining DA were non-ECNL clubs), then I think it could be harmful and destabilizing.  However, if it results in an increased investment in top coaches and facilities beyond what exists in ECNL and area leagues, it could be quite positive.


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## Desert Hound

SocalPapa said:


> I think a lot of us are just trying to understand how the landscape has changed.  It has changed a lot, especially in Southern California (with our TWO new closed leagues).  So I have really appreciated the insights people with knowledge on the topic have been sharing on this site.
> 
> In the hope of adding something of value to the conversation, I did some research to try to get a sense of how the national landscape has changed this year.  Here's what I found out (I don't guaranty the following is 100% accurate, but it should be pretty close):
> 
> *1) What happened to last season's ECNL clubs?*
> 
> Last season there were 84 ECNL clubs nationally.  Of those, 66 are still in ECNL.  Of the 66 that came back, 14 are dual DA-ECNL.  It appears all 18 that left ECNL are now DA-only clubs.  At quick glance the 14 dual DA-ECNL seem by and large to have been among the most successful clubs in ECNL's history.  The 18 that left to become DA-only, perhaps less successful.  (But I'll reserve final judgment on that.)
> 
> The change from 2016-17 in the Southwest ECNL Conference was as follows:
> 
> Now Dual DA-ECNL:
> So Cal Blues
> Slammers FC
> San Diego Surf
> West Coast FC
> 
> Still ECNL-Only:
> Strikers FC
> Arsenal FC
> Heat FC
> Sereno SC
> 
> Left ECNL and Now DA-Only:
> SC del Sol
> Eagles SC
> Real So Cal
> 
> So 8 of 11 teams in So Cal's regional ECNL conference are back.  (There is a separate issue as to how rosters might have changed.   The roster impact likely varied by age group, as others have noted above.)
> 
> *2) What teams joined ECNL?*
> 
> Though 18 clubs left ECNL, they were replaced by only 14 (to bring the total back up to 80 nationwide).  In the Southwest Conference the *Del Mar Sharks* were the only new club invited to join (meaning our area conference is down 2 teams).
> 
> *3) Where did the rest of the DA clubs come from?*
> 
> There are 69 total DA clubs.  As indicated above, 31 DA clubs were in ECNL last year (14 still are).  That means there are 38 clubs that, for whatever reason, did not participate in ECNL previously and are now DA.  Though they are without ECNL experience these 38  clubs now claim they can offer a more elite soccer experience than has ever existed for girls before.
> 
> In the case of So Cal, that could theoretically be possible.  The non-ECNL clubs that joined DA are pretty good.  They include:
> 
> Albion SC
> Beach Futbol Club
> LA Galaxy FC
> LA Galaxy San Diego
> Legends FC
> Los Angeles Premier Futbol Club
> Pateadores
> 
> *4) What are the odds of DA players earning a spot on the USWNT?*
> 
> Not high enough to give any serious thought to.  There are 23 or so roster spots on the USWNT.  Current players range in age from 19 to 32 (spanning 14 different age groups).  Assuming DA rosters average 20 players, the 69 DA clubs might have 27,000 or more players over 14 different age groups.  So the odds would probably less than one in a thousand, even if you assumed all future USWNT players will come out of DA.
> 
> *5) My daughter plays for ECNL (or DA).  How big will her college scholarship be?*
> 
> I estimate there's fewer than 4,000 Division I and Division II partial women's soccer scholarships handed out to each graduating high school class.  ECNL was very good at placing players on college teams.  But there used to be 84 ECNL teams and are now 149 DA and ECNL teams each year combined (ignoring the dual age years).  Nevertheless, the odds of earning a partial scholarship still look pretty good.   ECNL and DA would seemingly graduate only about 3,000 players a year who might be the first to compete for those 4,000 scholarships.  (And that's not accounting for other levels of college soccer that some ECNL and DA players might choose to play, including none at all.)
> 
> That said, the average Div I women's soccer scholarship is $17,121.  For Div. II it's $7,756.  If you are looking for financial help for your daughter to attend college, a much smarter investment would be to hire a tutor and have her study year-round for the PSAT.  If she makes National Merit Finalist she'd get an automatic 1/2 tuition scholarship at USC (worth about $26,000 annually).  A side benefit is your child's odds of actually getting into USC would be much better too!
> 
> *6) Where does the Development Player League (DPL) Fit In?
> *
> Personally, I don't know.  The 10 DPL clubs in our region are the only DA teams in the country that decided to form a second closed league like this.  I've heard the DPL clubs argue that it is needed because they don't have an ECNL team.  But that seams pretty weak given that there are 69 DA clubs nationally and only 14 are dual DA-ECNL.  Given the success the dual clubs had in ECNL, you can see why they stuck with it.  It doesn't otherwise seem like there is a compelling reason to have a second team participating in a closed league.  And given that DPL is not national, a closed league would seem to limit opportunities, if anything.  The only purpose I can imagine is as a marketing tool to try to draw more top players to their clubs, which is part of the reason I've been so critical of DPL in my other posts, including of their decision to hide their rosters this fall.  But I recognize others may have a different view, especially DPL parents and those directly involved in the league's founding.
> 
> *7) Is DA a good thing?*
> 
> That's both subjective and to be determined.  If this becomes simply a fight for market share between DA and ECNL clubs (which it has kind of started out to be given that most clubs joining DA were non-ECNL clubs), then I think it could be harmful and destabilizing.  However, if it results in an increased investment in top coaches and facilities beyond what exists in ECNL and area leagues, it could be quite positive.


Good post!


----------



## bababooey

SocalPapa said:


> *6) Where does the Development Player League (DPL) Fit In?*
> Personally, I don't know.  The 10 DPL clubs in our region are the only DA teams in the country that decided to form a second closed league like this.  I've heard the DPL clubs argue that it is needed because they don't have an ECNL team.  But that seams pretty weak given that there are 69 DA clubs nationally and only 14 are dual DA-ECNL.  Given the success the dual clubs had in ECNL, you can see why they stuck with it.  It doesn't otherwise seem like there is a compelling reason to have a second team participating in a closed league.  And given that DPL is not national, a closed league would seem to limit opportunities, if anything.  The only purpose I can imagine is as a marketing tool to try to draw more top players to their clubs, which is part of the reason I've been so critical of DPL in my other posts, including of their decision to hide their rosters this fall.  But I recognize others may have a different view, especially DPL parents and those directly involved in the league's founding.


Very good post and thank you for the information. As for DPL fitting in......this is not a joke. Some of the distinguishing factors for DPL versus CSL, SCDSL, etc. are the following:
1. Trainer at every game.
2. Pop up tents at every game.
3. Water jugs (gatorade/powerade) at every game.

So as you can see, the other leagues (besides ECNL and DA) pale in comparison to DPL (sarcasm).

The DPL is no different that EGSL was. These are the "sister or B teams" for the full DA or ECNL teams. The thought is that when the full DA or ECNL team has a need for another player, they would promote from within. That happens sometimes, but more frequently the coaches of these DA or ECNL teams would rather poach players from their competitors than promote from within.


----------



## gkrent

bababooey said:


> Very good post and thank you for the information. As for DPL fitting in......this is not a joke. Some of the distinguishing factors for DPL versus CSL, SCDSL, etc. are the following:
> 1. Trainer at every game.
> 2. Pop up tents at every game.
> 3. Water jugs (gatorade/powerade) at every game.
> 
> So as you can see, the other leagues (besides ECNL and DA) pale in comparison to DPL (sarcasm).
> 
> The DPL is no different that EGSL was. These are the "sister or B teams" for the full DA or ECNL teams. The thought is that when the full DA or ECNL team has a need for another player, they would promote from within. That happens sometimes, but more frequently the coaches of these DA or ECNL teams would rather poach players from their competitors than promote from within.


I've already seen Pats promote from within.


----------



## MakeAPlay

SocalPapa said:


> *5) My daughter plays for ECNL (or DA).  How big will her college scholarship be?*
> 
> I estimate there's fewer than 4,000 Division I and Division II partial women's soccer scholarships handed out to each graduating high school class.  ECNL was very good at placing players on college teams.  But there used to be 84 ECNL teams and are now 149 DA and ECNL teams each year combined (ignoring the dual age years).  Nevertheless, the odds of earning a partial scholarship still look pretty good.   ECNL and DA would seemingly graduate only about 3,000 players a year who might be the first to compete for those 4,000 scholarships.  (And that's not accounting for other levels of college soccer that some ECNL and DA players might choose to play, including none at all.)
> 
> That said, the average Div I women's soccer scholarship is $17,121.  For Div. II it's $7,756.  If you are looking for financial help for your daughter to attend college, a much smarter investment would be to hire a tutor and have her study year-round for the PSAT.  If she makes National Merit Finalist she'd get an automatic 1/2 tuition scholarship at USC (worth about $26,000 annually).  A side benefit is your child's odds of actually getting into USC would be much better too!


I want to focus on this number because for women's soccer on average the number is lower.  Now if you have a unicorn it is often higher but I believe the true average number for a women's soccer scholarship is like $9-$10k a year.  Also although you are correct that tuition and fees at $C are $52k once you add books, housing and a mealplan you are at abotu $70k!  Even a unicorn with a 75%+ scholarship is paying $18k a year at Stanford or $C and those are the facts (trust me on this one..).  Even a UC is going to run $28-$30k a year out the door.  However a 75%+ scholarship at a UC means that you are paying $7500 or less a year which is a little more budget friendly.  That number is even less for some of the CSU schools (San Diego St., CSUF, CSUN etc.).  

I also want to mention that a player's scholarship size has nothing to do with what club or team that they play for.  It has everything to do with how good that individual is and how the coach sees them fitting in.  A bigger scholarship means a larger expected role although I know some talented players with big roles that didn't necessarily get a large amount of money and vice versa.  Just some food for thought.


----------



## El Clasico

bababooey said:


> Very good post and thank you for the information. As for DPL fitting in......this is not a joke. Some of the distinguishing factors for DPL versus CSL, SCDSL, etc. are the following:
> 1. Trainer at every game.
> 2. Pop up tents at every game.
> 3. Water jugs (gatorade/powerade) at every game.
> 
> So as you can see, the other leagues (besides ECNL and DA) pale in comparison to DPL (sarcasm).
> 
> The DPL is no different that EGSL was. These are the "sister or B teams" for the full DA or ECNL teams. The thought is that when the full DA or ECNL team has a need for another player, they would promote from within. That happens sometimes, but more frequently the coaches of these DA or ECNL teams would rather poach players from their competitors than promote from within.


I see the analogy between the DPL and EGSL quite often and I am not sure why.  With the exception of the marketing aspect, the two have NOTHING in common. 

Speaking of FALL league play....
1. DPL is a closed league.  It is a concept adopted by the DA clubs to manipulate (for the most part as I realize some have eyes wide open...like bababooey) PARENTS into staying with the club by believing that DPL would be a stepping stone for their daughter to be promoted to the real DA team (yes Einsteins , I am generalizing, and yes, there may be that one exception of a girl that probably should have been on the DA team to begin with, not because she "developed" in this new league to get promoted). EGSL is not a league at all.
2. DPL is limited to certain age groups that are aligned with the DA age groups. EGSL is open to any age group. ECNL teams starting at U14 but there are U8 EGSL teams.
3. DPL is limited to DA Clubs. EGSL is open to ECNL clubs and anyone remotely associated with them...Clubs, affiliates, friends, family, etc. Think Slammers FC being ECNL but the CDA poser franchises are/were filled with EGSL teams.
4. For FALL league play, DPL clubs can camouflage their level of play because it is a closed league and they won't be measured by outside competition. EGSL teams play in regular league play (normally flight 1), any tournaments, state cup, etc. which makes it very difficult to hide their competitive level.


----------



## SocalPapa

El Clasico said:


> 2. DPL is limited to certain age groups that are aligned with the DA age groups.


Except for U16 and U17, which are combined in DA but separate in DPL.


----------



## Fact

bababooey said:


> Very good post and thank you for the information. As for DPL fitting in......this is not a joke. Some of the distinguishing factors for DPL versus CSL, SCDSL, etc. are the following:
> 1. Trainer at every game.
> 2. Pop up tents at every game.
> 3. Water jugs (gatorade/powerade) at every game.
> 
> So as you can see, the other leagues (besides ECNL and DA) pale in comparison to DPL (sarcasm).
> 
> The DPL is no different that EGSL was. These are the "sister or B teams" for the full DA or ECNL teams. The thought is that when the full DA or ECNL team has a need for another player, they would promote from within. That happens sometimes, but more frequently the coaches of these DA or ECNL teams would rather poach players from their competitors than promote from within.


@Babbbooey - From all your posts, you appear to have a good understanding of soccer politics, can see thru all the BS marketing and your daughter is on a DPL team for all the right reasons, (good coach, time commitment, etc).  My issue is with parents that think it is the next great thing and cheerlead way too much. Geeze there was not even half the hype for EGSL.  My other issue is that it creates another closed league when there is plenty of competition for this group in Socal.  Fine they want to have showcases, go ahead.  But don't make everyone else travel farther to play when CSL, SCDSL and maybe SDDA have enough competition.   Wishing your daughter all the success she wants in soccer and life, she sounds like a kid with her priorities straight.


----------



## SimpleSoccer

bababooey said:


> Very good post and thank you for the information. As for DPL fitting in......this is not a joke. Some of the distinguishing factors for DPL versus CSL, SCDSL, etc. are the following:
> 1. Trainer at every game.
> 2. Pop up tents at every game.
> 3. Water jugs (gatorade/powerade) at every game.
> 
> So as you can see, the other leagues (besides ECNL and DA) pale in comparison to DPL (sarcasm).
> 
> The DPL is no different that EGSL was. These are the "sister or B teams" for the full DA or ECNL teams. The thought is that when the full DA or ECNL team has a need for another player, they would promote from within. That happens sometimes, but more frequently the coaches of these DA or ECNL teams would rather poach players from their competitors than promote from within.


Agree that a bit of fluff like tents and gatorade at games is neither here nor there but having a trainer at every game sounds like a step in the right direction for any league/gaming circuit. Bit like why everyone  is willing to pay more for the "bigger/better" tournaments in the summer who play out of only 1 or 2 locations like Surf and Blues Cup so trainers are at the fields unlike ones that are spread out all over the place.

I'd be more interested to hear if DA coaches are actually present at DPL games? I thought the whole selling point of the league was that the reserve/B team players would have opportunities to be seen by the DA coaches as they controlled the schedule? Was this just a bit of lip service by the clubs that then isn't followed through on or can any parents confirm if their clubs DA staff go to the games and watch/help coach? Do the DA coaches ever train the DPL teams as well or was that just another sales pitch?

I can see it being hard for the sister team players in ECNL/SCDSL/CSL to get watched by the DA coaches as they are at the mercy of the leagues schedulers but there really isn't any excuse with DPL.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Once again haters hate and spout the same old negatives mostly from the outside.  Whether you agree or not with the formation of DPL the league is seeming to be working well so far and is likely here to stay.  So far the fields have been nice, good refs (can't believe I wrote this), water stations present, and 45 minute halves for 2001's is a plus.  The no re-entry in the same half takes some getting use to.  It is also nice to play at the same time every week.  No early games!     

The 10 clubs that formed DPL are big clubs and the intent is that their second teams will play in it.   So playing for the 2nd team for Beach, Legends, etc.. is not a bad place to be.   Most of these are new teams so I expect the level of play to continue to get better as these teams gel.  These teams will play National Cup, allow High School play, and are free to attend tournaments so they will get to play other non DPL teams.  So those that feel the need to rank teams will eventually get the information they crave. 

So far I have seen our DA coaches at DPL games as their schedules permit and I have even seen them talking with the teams after games to give them feedback.   I have seen them observing DPL practices.  Some of our DPL games are against the same club the DA is playing at the same complex which helps.  Some DPL girls have been invited to individual DA training sessions and some on an ongoing basis.   A few will likely get a chance to be a DP.  Still a long shot to be added full time to the DA.  Finally, I believe we did not pay anymore than the average of what other clubs with paid coaches charge and ECNL is not an option anymore is LA or Ventura Counties.


----------



## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> Once again haters hate and spout the same old negatives mostly from the outside.  Whether you agree or not with the formation of DPL the league is seeming to be working well so far and is likely here to stay.  So far the fields have been nice, good refs (can't believe I wrote this), water stations present, and 45 minute halves for 2001's is a plus.  The no re-entry in the same half takes some getting use to.  It is also nice to play at the same time every week.  No early games!
> 
> The 10 clubs that formed DPL are big clubs and the intent is that their second teams will play in it.   So playing for the 2nd team for Beach, Legends, etc.. is not a bad place to be.   Most of these are new teams so I expect the level of play to continue to get better as these teams gel.  These teams will play National Cup, allow High School play, and are free to attend tournaments so they will get to play other non DPL teams.  So those that feel the need to rank teams will eventually get the information they crave.
> 
> So far I have seen our DA coaches at DPL games as their schedules permit and I have even seen them talking with the teams after games to give them feedback.   I have seen them observing DPL practices.  Some of our DPL games are against the same club the DA is playing at the same complex which helps.  Some DPL girls have been invited to individual DA training sessions and some on an ongoing basis.   A few will likely get a chance to be a DP.  Still a long shot to be added full time to the DA.  Finally, I believe we did not pay anymore than the average of what other clubs with paid coaches charge and ECNL is not an option anymore is LA or Ventura Counties.


Apples and oranges.  Let me ask you this, do you think it was necessary to form this new league?


----------



## Justafan

Justafan said:


> Apples and oranges.  Let me ask you this, do you think it was necessary to form this new league?


And let me give you my answer.  I beleive it was absolutely unnecessary and is actually counterproductive to "soccer development."  What you want is a concentration of talent playing each other (steel sharpening steel).  By forming a new league you are not allowing your good teams to play other similarly talented teams in the the league they would have been in.  With more leagues and teams, everything get watered down.  Look at the 2 last place teams in the 04 division, they are clearly not at the level of the other teams, so what benefit do the better teams get out of playing those teams?


----------



## Real Deal

Justafan said:


> Apples and oranges.  Let me ask you this, do you think it was necessary to form this new league?


Like, really, is anything "necessary" besides some players, a ball, and a goal???  But as for the DPL,  one can pretty much assume a huge reason why it became a reality is because of this:



Simisoccerfan said:


> _*...ECNL is not an option anymore in LA or Ventura Counties.*_


----------



## Fact

Real Deal said:


> Like, really, is anything "necessary" besides some players, a ball, and a goal???  But as for the DPL,  one can pretty much assume a huge reason why it became a reality is because of this:


So what if  LA and Ventura don't have ECNL anymore.  How many of those ECNL girls purposely choose DPL over DA?  I would guess none.  LA and Ventura just switched from one top league to the new top league.

DPL was only created for the lining of the pockets of tracksuit wearing used car salesmen.


----------



## younothat

News Flash...new league forming better jump on the chance to get involved with the new "elite academy league"  sweeping the nation the PEAL  or short for pets elite academy league.

You can PEAL all your worries away while watching your pets play full time, no worries.  If your pet is truly elite you will find food sponsor's lined up  and the chance to appear in a "National" commercial with the PEAL national team.

Headers are allowed and no handball's so don't bother with that no-sense shouting.   Our Boston is loving the 4 day a week training, see you on the pitch.


----------



## timbuck

younothat said:


> News Flash...new league forming better jump on the chance to get involved with the new "elite academy league"  sweeping the nation the PEAL  or short for pets elite academy league.
> 
> You can PEAL all your worries away while watching your pets play full time, no worries.  If your pet is truly elite you will find food sponsor's lined up  and the chance to appear in a "National" commercial with the PEAL national team.
> 
> Headers are allowed and no handball's so don't bother with that no-sense shouting.   Our Boston is loving the 4 day a week training, see you on the pitch.


Will there be ez ups and Gatorade at all games?


----------



## younothat

timbuck said:


> Will there be ez ups and Gatorade at all games?


No but the uniforms can double as a sweater

Forget to mention there are no referees in PEAL only attendant's that you pay to "pick up" after your pet,  $1 a pop or poop.  Please don't yell at your player if they have a "accident" during the course of play, holding back can take the "fun" out of the game for the player(s), so please no shouting.

If your player(S) want to increase there chances to go national they will may have to sniff a lot of butt but please no licking.






The lab training to be a keeper


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## LadiesMan217

Fact said:


> So what if  LA and Ventura don't have ECNL anymore.  How many of those ECNL girls purposely choose DPL over DA?  I would guess none.  LA and Ventura just switched from one top league to the new top league.
> 
> DPL was only created for the lining of the pockets of tracksuit wearing used car salesmen.


As were all the other leagues. It is a free market here.


----------



## Lightning Red

What do you mean no refs?  My guy is ready!


----------



## SahaNC

Fact said:


> From all your posts, you appear to have a good understanding of soccer politics, can see thru all the BS marketing and your daughter is on a DPL team for all the right reasons, (good coach, time commitment, etc). My issue is with parents that think it is the next great thing and cheerlead way too much. Geeze there was not even half the hype for EGSL. My other issue is that it creates another closed league when there is plenty of competition for this group in Socal. Fine they want to have showcases, go ahead. But don't make everyone else travel farther to play when CSL, SCDSL and maybe SDDA have enough competition. Wishing your daughter all the success she wants in soccer and life, she sounds like a kid with her priorities straight.



Agree, I have a real issue with the excessive amount of needles travel. Some of our local leagues provide high enough level of competition. My son only played during his junior year at a top club and it was in my opinion a waste of time. He grew up mainly playing in a community soccer league. He was recently offered a partial scholarship at a Cal State school. In my opinion it was only possible because of persistence, hard work, a positive environment, and luck.  It's unrealistic to think that being at a top club traveling to faraway lands guarantees anything. I see how much money is injected into these top programs and it makes me sad for some of the families.


----------



## Victoria Quinn

SocalPapa said:


> I think a lot of us are just trying to understand how the landscape has changed.  It has changed a lot, especially in Southern California (with our TWO new closed leagues).  So I have really appreciated the insights people with knowledge on the topic have been sharing on this site.
> 
> In the hope of adding something of value to the conversation, I did some research to try to get a sense of how the national landscape has changed this year.  Here's what I found out (I don't guaranty the following is 100% accurate, but it should be pretty close):
> 
> *1) What happened to last season's ECNL clubs?*
> 
> Last season there were 84 ECNL clubs nationally.  Of those, 66 are still in ECNL.  Of the 66 that came back, 14 are dual DA-ECNL.  It appears all 18 that left ECNL are now DA-only clubs.  At quick glance the 14 dual DA-ECNL seem by and large to have been among the most successful clubs in ECNL's history.  The 18 that left to become DA-only, perhaps less successful.  (But I'll reserve final judgment on that.)
> 
> The change from 2016-17 in the Southwest ECNL Conference was as follows:
> 
> Now Dual DA-ECNL:
> So Cal Blues
> Slammers FC
> San Diego Surf
> West Coast FC
> 
> Still ECNL-Only:
> Strikers FC
> Arsenal FC
> Heat FC
> Sereno SC
> 
> Left ECNL and Now DA-Only:
> SC del Sol
> Eagles SC
> Real So Cal
> 
> So 8 of 11 teams in So Cal's regional ECNL conference are back.  (There is a separate issue as to how rosters might have changed.   The roster impact likely varied by age group, as others have noted above.)
> 
> *2) What teams joined ECNL?*
> 
> Though 18 clubs left ECNL, they were replaced by only 14 (to bring the total back up to 80 nationwide).  In the Southwest Conference the *Del Mar Sharks* were the only new club invited to join (meaning our area conference is down 2 teams).
> 
> *3) Where did the rest of the DA clubs come from?*
> 
> There are 69 total DA clubs.  As indicated above, 31 DA clubs were in ECNL last year (14 still are).  That means there are 38 clubs that, for whatever reason, did not participate in ECNL previously and are now DA.  Though they are without ECNL experience these 38  clubs now claim they can offer a more elite soccer experience than has ever existed for girls before.
> 
> In the case of So Cal, that could theoretically be possible.  The non-ECNL clubs that joined DA are pretty good.  They include:
> 
> Albion SC
> Beach Futbol Club
> LA Galaxy FC
> LA Galaxy San Diego
> Legends FC
> Los Angeles Premier Futbol Club
> Pateadores
> 
> *4) What are the odds of DA players earning a spot on the USWNT?*
> 
> Not high enough to give any serious thought to.  There are 23 or so roster spots on the USWNT.  Current players range in age from 19 to 32 (spanning 14 different age groups).  Assuming DA rosters average 20 players, the 69 DA clubs might have 27,000 or more players over 14 different age groups.  So the odds would probably less than one in a thousand, even if you assumed all future USWNT players will come out of DA.
> 
> *5) My daughter plays for ECNL (or DA).  How big will her college scholarship be?*
> 
> I estimate there's fewer than 4,000 Division I and Division II partial women's soccer scholarships handed out to each graduating high school class.  ECNL was very good at placing players on college teams.  But there used to be 84 ECNL teams and are now 149 DA and ECNL teams each year combined (ignoring the dual age years).  Nevertheless, the odds of earning a partial scholarship still look pretty good.   ECNL and DA would seemingly graduate only about 3,000 players a year who might be the first to compete for those 4,000 scholarships.  (And that's not accounting for other levels of college soccer that some ECNL and DA players might choose to play, including none at all.)
> 
> That said, the average Div I women's soccer scholarship is $17,121.  For Div. II it's $7,756.  If you are looking for financial help for your daughter to attend college, a much smarter investment would be to hire a tutor and have her study year-round for the PSAT.  If she makes National Merit Finalist she'd get an automatic 1/2 tuition scholarship at USC (worth about $26,000 annually).  A side benefit is your child's odds of actually getting into USC would be much better too!
> 
> *6) Where does the Development Player League (DPL) Fit In?
> *
> Personally, I don't know.  The 10 DPL clubs in our region are the only DA teams in the country that decided to form a second closed league like this.  I've heard the DPL clubs argue that it is needed because they don't have an ECNL team.  But that seams pretty weak given that there are 69 DA clubs nationally and only 14 are dual DA-ECNL.  Given the success the dual clubs had in ECNL, you can see why they stuck with it.  It doesn't otherwise seem like there is a compelling reason to have a second team participating in a closed league.  And given that DPL is not national, a closed league would seem to limit opportunities, if anything.  The only purpose I can imagine is as a marketing tool to try to draw more top players to their clubs, which is part of the reason I've been so critical of DPL in my other posts, including of their decision to hide their rosters this fall.  But I recognize others may have a different view, especially DPL parents and those directly involved in the league's founding.
> 
> *7) Is DA a good thing?*
> 
> That's both subjective and to be determined.  If this becomes simply a fight for market share between DA and ECNL clubs (which it has kind of started out to be given that most clubs joining DA were non-ECNL clubs), then I think it could be harmful and destabilizing.  However, if it results in an increased investment in top coaches and facilities beyond what exists in ECNL and area leagues, it could be quite positive.





With repsect to DPL I feel a lot of the DPL clubs in the SW region felt shut out by ECNL for many years and had to find aleternative ways to showcase talented players in their clubs, i.e. National League in the past. Forming a new league (second teams), which is exactly what ECNL is for the four remaining clubs in SW that are dual  DA/ECNL, DPL is a league for these non dual clubs to continue to complete for high level players, to play in a league that is strong, with limited travel. An excellent option for a lot of players and their parents. As far as the numbers are concerned, DPL, as of now, would only add approx 170-180 players per age group. With automatic acceptance into Showcases like Vegas and Silverlakes,  I would say the likelihood that many DPL players will have the opportunity to play in college,  shoukd they choose to play at the next level, is pretty good.  If not in a D1 program,  then a strong  possibility at a D2 D3 or NAIA peogram. Which is still an incredible experience for many girls!!!!


----------



## Justafan

Victoria Quinn said:


> With repsect to DPL I feel a lot of the DPL clubs in the SW region felt shut out by ECNL for many years and had to find aleternative ways to showcase talented players in their clubs, i.e. National League in the past. Forming a new league (second teams), which is exactly what ECNL is for the four remaining clubs in SW that are dual  DA/ECNL, DPL is a league for these non dual clubs to continue to complete for high level players, to play in a league that is strong, with limited travel. An excellent option for a lot of players and their parents. As far as the numbers are concerned, DPL, as of now, would only add approx 170-180 players per age group. With automatic acceptance into Showcases like Vegas and Silverlakes,  I would say the likelihood that many DPL players will have the opportunity to play in college,  shoukd they choose to play at the next level, is pretty good.  If not in a D1 program,  then a strong  possibility at a D2 D3 or NAIA peogram. Which is still an incredible experience for many girls!!!!


You could do the exact same things being on a strong Flight 1 or CSL Gold team (and probably SDDA).  The only thing DPL has over these leagues is the automatic acceptance into the showcases you mentioned.  However, because DA has their own showcases, most strong flight 1 and CSL gold teams will be accepted into these showcases anyway, so any perceived advantage is minimal if at all.


----------



## Victoria Quinn

Justafan said:


> You could do the exact same things being on a strong Flight 1 or CSL Gold team (and probably SDDA).  The only thing DPL has over these leagues is the automatic acceptance into the showcases you mentioned.  However, because DA has their own showcases, most strong flight 1 and CSL gold teams will be accepted into these showcases anyway, so any perceived advantage is minimal if at all.



Still much better to have guaranteed acceptance into several high level showcases to be seen by College Coaches in my opinion, them crossing your fingers and hoping that the tournament director deems your CSL, SCSDL
Flight 1 team worthy or good enough to be accepted into the very same Showcases!


----------



## Justafan

Victoria Quinn said:


> Still much better to have guaranteed acceptance into several high level showcases to be seen by College Coaches in my opinion, them crossing your fingers and hoping that the tournament director deems your CSL, SCSDL
> Flight 1 team worthy or good enough to be accepted into the very same Showcases!


It's a much higher likelihood than just crossing your fingers.  While I'm at it let me give you a real world example.  If you look at the 04's (a division I know very well) you have Eagles and LA Premeiere that are clearly not on the same level as your other teams, so what benefit do you get from playing them other than a glorified scrimmage.  

I have also seen other posters say there are no options in the San Fernando Valley/Ventura areas.  Let me ask you this, which team is better, the DPL team or RSC Salvadorri?  I haven't seen the DPL team play, but I'd comfortably put my money on Salvadorri.


----------



## Victoria Quinn

Justafan said:


> It's a much higher likelihood than just crossing your fingers.  While I'm at it let me give you a real world example.  If you look at the 04's (a division I know very well) you have Eagles and LA Premeiere that are clearly not on the same level as your other teams, so what benefit do you get from playing them other than a glorified scrimmage.
> 
> I have also seen other posters say there are no options in the San Fernando Valley/Ventura areas.  Let me ask you this, which team is better, the DPL team or RSC Salvadorri?  I haven't seen the DPL team play, but I'd comfortably put my money on Salvadorri.



We can agree to disagree. I don't know much about the 04's. I will tell you from past experience with an older daughter who played on a CSL Premier team that switched over to a top SCSDL Flight 1.  (At a time when only ECNL existed, no DA) and was on a first team, of a now top DA club, her team was shut out her junior AND senior year from Vegas, Surf and even the Blues Cup at the time. NOT ACCEPTED.  Fortunately the team WAS accepted into Davis and Pleasanton both years, she ended up with offers from a D2 and several D3's and several NAIA schools. (a few lower level D1's interested in her, later in the Spring of her Senior year, but she had already committed to the D3 school at the time) so she ended  up at D3. Where the school came up with Grants and Academic money that she earned. (GPA 3.5) And she ended up with a 70% non athletic scholarship on a D3 team that ended up going to Final Four NCAA  National Championship her Freshman Year. Her D3 team qualified for the NCAA tournament 3 out of the 4 years she played. Like I said earlier, an incredible experience! One that I would not change. However with my younger, I'm taking that guaranteed exceptance, not hoping for it or wishing for it, based on our experience from the past!


----------



## Fact

Victoria Quinn said:


> Still much better to have guaranteed acceptance into several high level showcases to be seen by College Coaches in my opinion, them crossing your fingers and hoping that the tournament director deems your CSL, SCSDL
> Flight 1 team worthy or good enough to be accepted into the very same Showcases!


High level tournaments also have low level brackets . . . Will coaches venture out to a lone field to see a low level team when plenty of mid-tier teams have great unknown and uncommitted players that would be perfect for DII, III and NAIA and are all playing at the same field?  I guess we will have to wait and see where these DPL teams are actually placed in tournaments.

However, if I had a high school aged dd and she was not playing on a DA team, I would find the next best team for her to play on (assuming good coaching).  One stud on a low team is not going to be able to put forth her best show for college coaches if no one on her team can connect passes, give and go, etc.


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## Justafan

Victoria Quinn said:


> We can agree to disagree. I don't know much about the 04's. I will tell you from past experience with an older daughter who played on a CSL Premier team that switched over to a top SCSDL Flight 1.  (At a time when only ECNL existed, no DA) and was on a first team, of a now top DA club, her team was shut out her junior AND senior year from Vegas, Surf and even the Blues Cup at the time. NOT ACCEPTED.  Fortunately the team WAS accepted into Davis and Pleasanton both years, she ended up with offers from a D2 and several D3's and several NAIA schools. (a few lower level D1's interested in her, later in the Spring of her Senior year, but she had already committed to the D3 school at the time) so she ended  up at D3. Where the school came up with Grants and Academic money that she earned. (GPA 3.5) And she ended up with a 70% non athletic scholarship on a D3 team that ended up going to Final Four NCAA  National Championship her Freshman Year. Her D3 team qualified for the NCAA tournament 3 out of the 4 years she played. Like I said earlier, an incredible experience! One that I would not change. However with my younger, I'm taking that guaranteed exceptance, not hoping for it or wishing for it, based on our experience from the past!


Your right, other teams don't have automatic acceptance, but chances are very high of getting in with DA doing their own thing.  Our team (SGV Surf 04) got into Surf, WCFC, and Blues Cup this year when we didn't last year.  The opportunities are there.  Plus, there are other ways to get your player noticed, you could have your player guest with a team that is going to those showcases for example.


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## soccerobserver

Victoria Quinn said:


> Still much better to have guaranteed acceptance into several high level showcases to be seen by College Coaches in my opinion, them crossing your fingers and hoping that the tournament director deems your CSL, SCSDL
> Flight 1 team worthy or good enough to be accepted into the very same Showcases!


VQ the good/great coaches in Csl and scdsl  usually have a long track record of getting their teams into the top showcases. I might argue that Being with a great coach is better than having an "unearned" priviledge of guaranteed entry if the coaching is not excellent. Just my 2 cents.


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## Simisoccerfan

Justafan said:


> It's a much higher likelihood than just crossing your fingers.  While I'm at it let me give you a real world example.  If you look at the 04's (a division I know very well) you have Eagles and LA Premeiere that are clearly not on the same level as your other teams, so what benefit do you get from playing them other than a glorified scrimmage.
> 
> I have also seen other posters say there are no options in the San Fernando Valley/Ventura areas.  Let me ask you this, which team is better, the DPL team or RSC Salvadorri?  I haven't seen the DPL team play, but I'd comfortably put my money on Salvadorri.


The no other options in the SF/Ventura area comments are really direct at the 02's and above.   Your 04's are what in 8th grade?   I personally don't think there should be the DA/ECNL/or DPL for 8th graders.   Heck more than half of the 8th grader girls soccer players I know where not even playing soccer any more by their junior year.  Plus unless your kid is the second coming no one is looking at them at showcases yet (nor should they be).  When your kid is in 8th grade it should be all about their development and making sure soccer is still fun.   That they have a passion for it.   Otherwise when they get older and start making their own decisions they will no longer be playing.


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## Victoria Quinn

soccerobserver said:


> VQ the good/great coaches in Csl and scdsl  usually have a long track record of getting their teams into the top showcases. I might argue that Being with a great coach is better than having an "unearned" priviledge of guaranteed entry if the coaching is not excellent. Just my 2 cents.



Can speak for all DPL programs. The program that my daughter is on amazing has an Coach, great Coaching staff (multiple A licenses and present at most DPL games) we have 3-4 DA Coaches at many games on our bench. Director often there and speaks at half time and after the game. We were low level Bracket at Surf and Davis. Still had multiple College Coaches on sidelines for multiple games and several letters after Surf to my daughter from Coaches. So they did venture out to the non top bracket fields, they did watch our players. So right now, I am very happy my daughter is on a DPL team that practices 20 minutes from my house


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## timbuck

Simisoccerfan said:


> The no other options in the SF/Ventura area comments are really direct at the 02's and above.   Your 04's are what in 8th grade?   I personally don't think there should be the DA/ECNL/or DPL for 8th graders.   Heck more than half of the 8th grader girls soccer players I know where not even playing soccer any more by their junior year.  Plus unless your kid is the second coming no one is looking at them at showcases yet (nor should they be).  When your kid is in 8th grade it should be all about their development and making sure soccer is still fun.   That they have a passion for it.   Otherwise when they get older and start making their own decisions they will no longer be playing.


But then current 05 teams couldn't call themselves "Pre-Academy".  Actually, they probably still would.


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## Victoria Quinn

Victoria Quinn said:


> Can speak for all DPL programs. The program that my daughter is on has an amazing Coach, great Coaching staff (multiple A licenses and present at most DPL games) we have 3-4 DA Coaches at many games on our bench. Director often there and speaks at half time and after the game. We were low level Bracket at Surf and Davis. Still had multiple College Coaches on sidelines for multiple games and several letters after Surf to my daughter from Coaches. So they did venture out to the non top bracket fields, they did watch our players. So right now, I am very happy my daughter is on a DPL team that practices 20 minutes from my house


Oh and by the way...has Deveopled tremendously under the DPL.


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## LadiesMan217

Victoria Quinn said:


> Can speak for all DPL programs. The program that my daughter is on has an amazing Coach, great Coaching staff (multiple A licenses and present at most DPL games) we have 3-4 DA Coaches at many games on our bench. Director often there and speaks at half time and after the game. We were low level Bracket at Surf and Davis. Still had multiple College Coaches on sidelines for multiple games and several letters after Surf to my daughter from Coaches. So they did venture out to the non top bracket fields, they did watch our players. So right now, I am very happy my daughter is on a DPL team that practices 20 minutes from my house
> 
> Oh and by the way...has Deveopled tremendously under the DPL.


Well that narrows down the team to 1 club. Great choice for your DD even if they don't have the best players and win many games - they will improve. Don't let standings change your choice of clubs - your DD is getting some of the best training she will receive in SoCal.


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## Justafan

Victoria Quinn said:


> Can speak for all DPL programs. The program that my daughter is on amazing has an Coach, great Coaching staff (multiple A licenses and present at most DPL games) we have 3-4 DA Coaches at many games on our bench. Director often there and speaks at half time and after the game. We were low level Bracket at Surf and Davis. Still had multiple College Coaches on sidelines for multiple games and several letters after Surf to my daughter from Coaches. So they did venture out to the non top bracket fields, they did watch our players. So right now, I am very happy my daughter is on a DPL team that practices 20 minutes from my house


So you played non DPL teams at both these tournaments right? So those same college coaches and letters you received were available to all the non DPL players and teams correct?  That's my point, you didn't need DPL to do all the same things.


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## Justafan

Victoria Quinn said:


> Oh and by the way...has Deveopled tremendously under the DPL.


DPL hasn't been around that long.  So what kind of development was going on before?  Were you with the same club and coach?  A good coach is a good coach regardless of title.  The DA and DPL coaches should have been doing the same "great" coaching before DA or DPL.  Like they say when coaches lose or win based on the level of talent on their team, the coach did not all of a sudden become a genius (in a win), or dumb (in a loss).


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## Victoria Quinn

Justafan said:


> You could do the exact same things being on a strong Flight 1 or CSL Gold team (and probably SDDA).  The only thing DPL has over these leagues is the automatic acceptance into the showcases you mentioned.  However, because DA has their own showcases, most strong flight 1 and CSL gold teams will be accepted into these showcases anyway, so any perceived advantage is minimal if at all.


I am not so sure about that. My DD has several friends that play Flight 1 SCSDL
(Champion bracket last year that were NOT accepted into Surf this year) so once again...she going to stick with the automatic acceptance for now


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## Fact

Victoria Quinn said:


> I am not so sure about that. My DD has several friends that play Flight 1 SCSDL
> (Champion bracket last year that were NOT accepted into Surf this year) so once again...she going to stick with the automatic acceptance for now


Surf does not guarantee DPL teams either.


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## Mystery Train

Lots of talk about college coaches at "top" tournaments and difficulty being accepted into said tournaments.  Thanks to doing a ton of guest playing (advantage GK) my DD has played in every one of these tournaments/showcases listed but never been on an ECNL or DA team (until recently, none in our geography).  Last year she did Vegas with a team two age groups higher but in a lower level bracket.  This was a Flight 2 SCDSL team, and not even a particularly strong one.  By emailing coaches before hand (several players on the team targeted the same coaches/schools to maximize interest) and the club coach who also reached out to the college coaches, they had really good turnout and two of the girls had offers this year from coaches they reached out to.  The idea that you must get your kid to get on a "X" team in "Y" league in order to get a college soccer scholarship is part of the entire myth of the club soccer pyramid to begin with.  Like @soccerobserver said, focus on finding the coach and team that is capable of raising and maximizing your kid's potential.  If that team happens to be a DPL team or a DA team or ECNL, then good for you, you may have about 10% less work to do.  If your kid is a power 5 D1 starter level player then she's already been ID'd one way or another by her sophomore year . . . so it doesn't matter what league you're in because you're one of the 1%.  For the other 99%, it's going to be up to the parent and kid to get on a particular school's radar, so ironically, it _*also*_ doesn't really matter what league you're in.  Having said all that, I'm not criticizing anyone for being pumped about having a kid on a DA or DPL team.  It will be another line to add on the resume.  Just don't expect the coaches to come knocking because of that alone.  You're still going to have to do the work.


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## SocalPapa

Victoria Quinn said:


> With repsect to DPL I feel a lot of the DPL clubs in the SW region felt shut out by ECNL for many years and had to find aleternative ways to showcase talented players in their clubs, i.e. National League in the past. Forming a new league (second teams), which is exactly what ECNL is for the four remaining clubs in SW that are dual  DA/ECNL, DPL is a league for these non dual clubs to continue to complete for high level players, to play in a league that is strong, with limited travel. An excellent option for a lot of players and their parents.


As laid out in my post, DA is pretty much just a rival league to ECNL made up mostly of non-ECNL clubs.  There are some seemingly weaker ECNL clubs that decided to switch from ECNL to DA.  And there were a select few that had illustrious histories with ECNL that decided to take on both DA and ECNL.  But it is only in the SW region where a group of DA-only clubs seemed to believe forming the rival DA league wasn't enough to challenge ECNL so decided to try to put their B teams into a closed league.  But that league is nothing like ECNL and has only hurt the top divisions of our two main local clubs (CSL and SCDSL), and conversely, the DPL teams themselves. 

Competitiveness has been debated by others previously.  Let me just say that at the '02 level, which I'm most familiar with, there is no indication that a majority of the DPL teams would be particularly competitive in the Champions level of SCDSL. For example,

- Beach FC has a winning record in DPL, but lost 1-0 to Legends FC West in the California Regional League back in August.  Legends FC West, in turn, has a losing SCDSL record (currently in 8th place).

- Real So Cal DPL is undefeated after its first five DPL games with a +13 goal differential, but lost 3-1 in California Regional League back in August to CSL Premier's Fullerton Rangers White.  That Rangers team, in turn, tied its CRL game with CDA Slammers FC - HB G02 Elite, which is currently in 5th place of the Champions division. 

And so on.  You get the idea.  If DPL were anything close to ECNL the weakest of them should be able to crush Flight 1 and CSL Premier teams.  My daughter has played against ECNL teams and the ECNL teams by and large have been at a completely different level than the Flight 1 and CSL Premier teams she's played against.  That includes the former '02 So Cal Blues Holley Flight 1 team whose roster now makes up the bulk of the Blues 01/02 DA team (and which team currently has a winning record in DA ).

It's great that sometimes DA coaches come and watch DPL games.  But at the '02 level, I've seen ECNL head coaches (e.g., Strikers and Arsenal) that are also the full time head coaches of the ECNL Reserve teams.  It's the same coach and the same system.  The structure of DA/DPL makes that overlap harder, not easier, to ever pull off.

And I'm delighted that your daughter is having a good experience DPL and is getting good training.  But so are girls on Flight 1 teams.   There are a lot of good soccer clubs outside of Southern California.  If there were a compelling developmental reason for DA clubs to form secondary closed leagues others would have done it. 

My impression is that DPL has only been a detriment so far.  But again, if there were some evidence that DPL clubs are investing MORE resources in coaching and facilities than they traditionally had invested in CSL Premier and Flight 1, then I'd be sold.  Right now all I see is a new shiny logo, hidden rosters, and a disadvantageous change to scheduling.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

SocalPapa said:


> As laid out in my post, DA is pretty much just a rival league to ECNL made up mostly of non-ECNL clubs.  There are some seemingly weaker ECNL clubs that decided to switch from ECNL to DA.  And there were a select few that had illustrious histories with ECNL that decided to take on both DA and ECNL.  But it is only in the SW region where a group of DA-only clubs seemed to believe forming the rival DA league wasn't enough to challenge ECNL so decided to try to put their B teams into a closed league.  But that league is nothing like ECNL and has only hurt the top divisions of our two main local clubs (CSL and SCDSL), and conversely, the DPL teams themselves.
> 
> Competitiveness has been debated by others previously.  Let me just say that at the '02 level, which I'm most familiar with, there is no indication that a majority of the DPL teams would be particularly competitive in the Champions level of SCDSL. For example,
> 
> - Beach FC has a winning record in DPL, but lost 1-0 to Legends FC West in the California Regional League back in August.  Legends FC West, in turn, has a losing SCDSL record (currently in 8th place).
> 
> - Real So Cal DPL is undefeated after its first five DPL games with a +13 goal differential, but lost 3-1 in California Regional League back in August to CSL Premier's Fullerton Rangers White.  That Rangers team, in turn, tied its CRL game with CDA Slammers FC - HB G02 Elite, which is currently in 5th place of the Champions division.
> 
> And so on.  You get the idea.  If DPL were anything close to ECNL the weakest of them should be able to crush Flight 1 and CSL Premier teams.  My daughter has played against ECNL teams and the ECNL teams by and large have been at a completely different level than the Flight 1 and CSL Premier teams she's played against.  That includes the former '02 So Cal Blues Holley Flight 1 team whose roster now makes up the bulk of the Blues 01/02 DA team (and which team currently has a winning record in DA ).
> 
> It's great that sometimes DA coaches come and watch DPL games.  But at the '02 level, I've seen ECNL head coaches (e.g., Strikers and Arsenal) that are also the full time head coaches of the ECNL Reserve teams.  It's the same coach and the same system.  The structure of DA/DPL makes that overlap harder, not easier, to ever pull off.
> 
> And I'm delighted that your daughter is having a good experience DPL and is getting good training.  But so are girls on Flight 1 teams.   There are a lot of good soccer clubs outside of Southern California.  If there were a compelling developmental reason for DA clubs to form secondary closed leagues others would have done it.
> 
> My impression is that DPL has only been a detriment so far.  But again, if there were some evidence that DPL clubs are investing MORE resources in coaching and facilities than they traditionally had invested in CSL Premier and Flight 1, then I'd be sold.  Right now all I see is a new shiny logo, hidden rosters, and a disadvantageous change to scheduling.


Your like a government official or the media.  Picking the data that tells your story without looking at all of the data.   Go to Youth Soccer Rankings and look at the games the 02 DPL teams have played since last spring.   Your conclusions are flawed.   On one hand you state that not having the DPL teams has hurt the top brackets of SCDSL and CSL and that DPL has only been a detriment but then you seem to say that these teams would not be competitive with the same top brackets they are hurting.   Which is it?  

You mention that Real DPL lost to Fullerton Rangers who tied the 5th place SCDSL team.   You fail to mention that this is the same Real team that tied Fram just one week later (who is tied at the top of Premier with Fullerton).  They also beat Real SCV (3rd in champions) 3-0.   This team also lost twice to So Cal Blues ECNL this summer only be one goal!  They also beat the 2nd place SCDSL team CDA Slammers in the CRL play in.

Now let's look at Beach.  You mention they lost to a 8th place team.  You also failed to mention they tied the Champions league 3rd place team just one week later.  Eagles and Legends have solid track records also.   Albion who is tied for 7th place beat Fram (tied for 1st place in Premier with Fullerton) 1-0 in the same CRL event you were quoting above.   Pateadores who are in 9th place beat Slammers ECNL this past summer.

My point is not that the DPL 02 teams are superior nor should they be compared to ECNL.  Just that your comment "there is no indication that a majority of the DPL teams would be particularly competitive in the Champions level of SCDSL" is flawed and is based just on the select games you picked to support your premise.   I can just as easily pick select games the SCDSL Champions league teams played and make the same case that many of these teams would not be competitive in DPL.


----------



## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> Your like a government official or the media.  Picking the data that tells your story without looking at all of the data.   Go to Youth Soccer Rankings and look at the games the 02 DPL teams have played since last spring.   Your conclusions are flawed.   On one hand you state that not having the DPL teams has hurt the top brackets of SCDSL and CSL and that DPL has only been a detriment but then you seem to say that these teams would not be competitive with the same top brackets they are hurting.   Which is it?
> 
> You mention that Real DPL lost to Fullerton Rangers who tied the 5th place SCDSL team.   You fail to mention that this is the same Real team that tied Fram just one week later (who is tied at the top of Premier with Fullerton).  They also beat Real SCV (3rd in champions) 3-0.   This team also lost twice to So Cal Blues ECNL this summer only be one goal!  They also beat the 2nd place SCDSL team CDA Slammers in the CRL play in.
> 
> Now let's look at Beach.  You mention they lost to a 8th place team.  You also failed to mention they tied the Champions league 3rd place team just one week later.  Eagles and Legends have solid track records also.   Albion who is tied for 7th place beat Fram (tied for 1st place in Premier with Fullerton) 1-0 in the same CRL event you were quoting above.   Pateadores who are in 9th place beat Slammers ECNL this past summer.
> 
> My point is not that the DPL 02 teams are superior nor should they be compared to ECNL.  Just that your comment "there is no indication that a majority of the DPL teams would be particularly competitive in the Champions level of SCDSL" is flawed and is based just on the select games you picked to support your premise.   I can just as easily pick select games the SCDSL Champions league teams played and make the same case that many of these teams would not be competitive in DPL.


I didn't sort through every match.  Those poor results alone were significant on their own.  Further, I didn't say the BEST DPL teams couldn't compete in Champions.  I said there is no indication that a MAJORITY of the DPL teams would be particularly competitive in Champions.  Your additional game summaries do not refute that statement.

As you clarify, the top DPL team, Real DPL, is 1-1 vs Champions teams, managed a tie vs a CSL Premier team, and lost twice to an ECNL team.  Let's assume this proves Real would be competitive (if not dominant) in Champions.  Well, Real DPL has CRUSHED some of the other DPL teams with wins of 7-0 and 5-0.  What does that say about those weaker DPL teams?

Further, Albion did manage a tight 1-0 win over a good CSL Premier team.  But FRAM isn't in Champions so I'm not sure how far that gets you by itself.  (Also, Albion has had a tough schedule.  Odds are good that they'll still finish in the top half of the DPL standings when all is said and done.)

I agree Eagles and Legends '02 are quality teams and I would expect them to finish in the top half of DPL.

As for Beach, I wouldn't consider a tie vs the 3rd place Champions team and a loss to the 8th place team indicates they would be particularly competitive in Champions.  But in any event, they could also end up within the top half of the final standings.

Finally, Pateadores DPL has never played, let alone beaten, the Slammers ECNL team.  I imagine you looked at Youthsoccerrankings for that result, but that site is not correct.  The team that Pats DPL beat (1-0) was the Slammers ECNL RESERVE team (currently in 7th place in Champions).  Pats DPL was eliminated in the quarterfinals of that tournament, which featured a Champions team and an SCDSL Flight 2 team in the championship match.  http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=57647&Gender=Girls&Age=16


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## Dos Equis

You can analyze the age groups and teams, cherry pick some game results, and try to make almost any case you want, at least at this point.  

I do not think, however, a convincing argument has been made why the DPL was necessary for the purposes of either development or competition here in Socal.  Not on these forums, and not on the field.   

A trend that started with ECNL, exploded with DA, DPL and the competing summer and fall Norco showcases.  Too many clubs here in Socal seem dedicated to creating closed leagues and controlling tournaments resulting in the same clubs and teams playing each other repeatedly. 

Our talented players will likely be going down separate paths though their teen years, perhaps to meet once again on the field in college.  

I look forward to better understanding what has been gained but, as a father of a much older player, I know what has been lost.


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## Simisoccerfan

You are still missing the point.  Your Champions League teams top to bottom are no better than the Premier teams top to bottom and the same goes for the DPL teams.  If you look at the results for the teams in these three leagues/brackets over the past few months they all blend together.  Almost everyone has good wins and bad losses.   For example San Diego has CRUSHED many of your Champions League teams with scores of 8-0, 5-0 and 4-0.  What does that say about your weaker Champion's teams?   If you think the majority of the DPL teams would not be competitive then you shouldn't care that these teams left, since they are no competition for your Champions team.  For the most part SCSDL Champions league is home for a bunch of second and third teams (or in Slammers case 4th and 5th?) for big clubs along with several very good top teams from smaller clubs.  Sounds a lot like the level of teams in DPL and CSL Premier.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Dos Equis said:


> You can analyze the age groups and teams, cherry pick some game results, and try to make almost any case you want, at least at this point.
> 
> I do not think, however, a convincing argument has been made why the DPL was necessary for the purposes of either development or competition here in Socal.  Not on these forums, and not on the field.
> 
> A trend that started with ECNL, exploded with DA, DPL and the competing summer and fall Norco showcases.  Too many clubs here in Socal seem dedicated to creating closed leagues and controlling tournaments resulting in the same clubs and teams playing each other repeatedly.
> 
> Our talented players will likely be going down separate paths though their teen years, perhaps to meet once again on the field in college.
> 
> I look forward to better understanding what has been gained but, as a father of a much older player, I know what has been lost.



I am still waiting on that convincing argument on why SCDSL was necessary for the purposes of development or competition!


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## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> You are still missing the point.  Your Champions League teams top to bottom are no better than the Premier teams top to bottom and the same goes for the DPL teams.  If you look at the results for the teams in these three leagues/brackets over the past few months they all blend together.  Almost everyone has good wins and bad losses.   For example San Diego has CRUSHED many of your Champions League teams with scores of 8-0, 5-0 and 4-0.  What does that say about your weaker Champion's teams?   If you think the majority of the DPL teams would not be competitive then you shouldn't care that these teams left, since they are no competition for your Champions team.  For the most part SCSDL Champions league is home for a bunch of second and third teams (or in Slammers case 4th and 5th?) for big clubs along with several very good top teams from smaller clubs.  Sounds a lot like the level of teams in DPL and CSL Premier.


I agree Champions has some weak teams this season.  My point is that the best Champions teams and best DPL teams (the ones that would be "particularly competitive" in Champions) should be playing each other and not separated/forced to play weaker league opponents for half their games.  

As for that San Diego team, I've commented on them before.  They are a uniquely talented '03 team playing up.  They won the Super Black division of Surf Cup this summer without conceding a single goal, beating several ECNL teams along the way.  They really should be in ECNL or DA but their club isn't strong enough overall to participate in either.


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## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> I am still waiting on that convincing argument on why SCDSL was necessary for the purposes of development or competition!


You may find this Goal Nation article from when SCDSL was founded to be of interest.  http://goalnation.com/southern-california-developmental-soccer-league-update/  The focus was indeed development and technical training, particularly at the U8-U12 level.  The main issue with Coast Soccer League was that it required teams to win to advance to higher competitive levels, but the SCDSL structure allows clubs to focus on player development and simply place players/teams at the appropriate competitive level irrespective of their team's results the prior season.  The founders also emphasize in the article how SCDSL is an open league.  DPL, as a closed league with only older-aged teams (that have immediately tried to claim a competitive superiority), is a pretty different animal.


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## Goforgoal

SocalPapa said:


> As for that San Diego team, I've commented on them before.  They are a uniquely talented '03 team playing up.  They won the Super Black division of Surf Cup this summer without conceding a single goal, beating several ECNL teams along the way.  They really should be in ECNL or DA but their club isn't strong enough overall to participate in either.


Which is a shame really. It takes a bit of luck, some work and a special team/coach to keep a core like that together I'd have to think, when you have two (as of this year) ECNL clubs in town and now two DA clubs. I can't help but wonder how any club that aspires to participate in the higher level leagues can manage to break the cycle. I have u-Littles though so I really don't know anything about this stuff, but I like to follow along and try to learn what I can.

Anyhoo, that team's answer to find competition beyond playing up in SCDSL was the US Youth Soccer National League. https://www.soccernation.com/san-diego-soccer-clubs-g2003/


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## Mystery Train

Goforgoal said:


> Which is a shame really. It takes a bit of luck, some work and a special team/coach to keep a core like that together I'd have to think, when you have two (as of this year) ECNL clubs in town and now two DA clubs. I can't help but wonder how any club that aspires to participate in the higher level leagues can manage to break the cycle. I have u-Littles though so I really don't know anything about this stuff, but I like to follow along and try to learn what I can.
> 
> Anyhoo, that team's answer to find competition beyond playing up in SCDSL was the US Youth Soccer National League. https://www.soccernation.com/san-diego-soccer-clubs-g2003/


I think it's a great example of how chemistry can elevate a team's performance.  Not that they aren't amazing individual athletes as well I'm sure, but I guarantee that the years of playing together is paying off big time.  I wish more teams were able to do that.  I see a lot of disjointed play in the older levels due to all the shake-ups and changes over the past few years like DA shuffle this season and the age-group change last year.  @SocalPapa : Do you know if that team is all '03 top to bottom, or are they mostly 03's with some 02's sprinkled in for league play?


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## SocalPapa

Mystery Train said:


> I think it's a great example of how chemistry can elevate a team's performance.  Not that they aren't amazing individual athletes as well I'm sure, but I guarantee that the years of playing together is paying off big time.  I wish more teams were able to do that.  I see a lot of disjointed play in the older levels due to all the shake-ups and changes over the past few years like DA shuffle this season and the age-group change last year.  @SocalPapa : Do you know if that team is all '03 top to bottom, or are they mostly 03's with some 02's sprinkled in for league play?


All '03 top to bottom.  I haven't seen them play yet, but their stats do seem to confirm excellent team chemistry.  20 goals in 6 games scored by at least 6 different players.  And at least 6 different players with assists.


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## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> I am still waiting on that convincing argument on why SCDSL was necessary for the purposes of development or competition!


SCDSL was not necessary.  It was created as means for clubs to line their pockets because CSL limited the number of teams a club could have in each age group and gave the clubs control.  Hum sounds familiar to DPL.


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## Simisoccerfan

Fact said:


> SCDSL was not necessary.  It was created as means for clubs to line their pockets because CSL limited the number of teams a club could have in each age group and gave the clubs control.  Hum sounds familiar to DPL.


I finally agree with you on something!  Please don't buy into the multi year propaganda that SCDSL's formation was all about development as Socal Papa references above.   I find it hypocritical here when SCDSL parents are so critical of DPL when SCDSL was founded on similar motivations.


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## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> I finally agree with you on something!  Please don't buy into the multi year propaganda that SCDSL's formation was all about development as Socal Papa references above.   I find it hypocritical here when SCDSL parents are so critical of DPL when SCDSL was founded on similar motivations.


SCDSL's foundation was made necessary by Gary Sparks (God rest his soul) not wanting to allow the ECNL teams to  count their ECNL games as Premier games.  In addition, the ECNL teams wanted their top teams to have guaranteed placement in the Premier bracket (an invitation only bracket).  Sparks refused that and an ECNL compromise that was offered that would not have the ECNL clubs' top teams play in Premier.  This was unacceptable to Mr. Sparks (because how could you say CSL Premier is the top league in the country if the top teams in SoCal didn't play in it) and he told the ECNL teams that all of the clubs' teams would be barred from competing if the top teams did not play.  That was his major miscalculation.  The ECNL clubs formed a league for their other teams and most of the top clubs came along for two reasons.  #1 they wanted to have the ability to play against the clubs that were consistently the strongest in the region.  #2 (a happy side effect) they no longer had the CSL restriction of 3 teams per age group.  Reason #2 (the side effect) had the unfortunate consequence that anyone that could afford to write a check could get their kid on a brand named club (thus watering down said brand and the overall competition level in SoCal).

This all was a series of unfortunate events that unfolded over the course of my player's club career.  Prior to the breakdown all the best teams in SoCal (on the girls side) other than Surf and Carlsbad Lightning (and to a lesser extent PQ Premier) played in CSL.  Surf would have played their too but they were banned for some political reason.

Those are the facts....


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## Simisoccerfan

MakeAPlay said:


> SCDSL's foundation was made necessary by Gary Sparks (God rest his soul) not wanting to allow the ECNL teams to  count their ECNL games as Premier games.  In addition, the ECNL teams wanted their top teams to have guaranteed placement in the Premier bracket (an invitation only bracket).  Sparks refused that and an ECNL compromise that was offered that would not have the ECNL clubs' top teams play in Premier.  This was unacceptable to Mr. Sparks (because how could you say CSL Premier is the top league in the country if the top teams in SoCal didn't play in it) and he told the ECNL teams that all of the clubs' teams would be barred from competing if the top teams did not play.  That was his major miscalculation.  The ECNL clubs formed a league for their other teams and most of the top clubs came along for two reasons.  #1 they wanted to have the ability to play against the clubs that were consistently the strongest in the region.  #2 (a happy side effect) they no longer had the CSL restriction of 3 teams per age group.  Reason #2 (the side effect) had the unfortunate consequence that anyone that could afford to write a check could get their kid on a brand named club (thus watering down said brand and the overall competition level in SoCal).
> 
> This all was a series of unfortunate events that unfolded over the course of my player's club career.  Prior to the breakdown all the best teams in SoCal (on the girls side) other than Surf and Carlsbad Lightning (and to a lesser extent PQ Premier) played in CSL.  Surf would have played their too but they were banned for some political reason.
> 
> Those are the facts....



I agree with you MAP.   SCDSL was not formed to create a better developmental environment for players.  It was over a turf war.  I also understand (not sure if this is an urban legend or not)  that around that time a bunch of European clubs wanted to set up academies that would have been free for players in SoCal but the big clubs squeezed them out of the market by preventing them from participating in the local leagues.


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## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> I agree with you MAP.   SCDSL was not formed to create a better developmental environment for players.  It was over a turf war.  I also understand (not sure if this is an urban legend or not)  that around that time a bunch of European clubs wanted to set up academies that would have been free for players in SoCal but the big clubs squeezed them out of the market by preventing them from participating in the local leagues.


I don't know about the European academy thing but it certainly would not surprise me.  I wish that it was formed for development but I can't honestly say that.  My kid was developed by her coaches, her parents and playing in the ECNL, ODP, YNT and not the SCDSL.  I think that she only played in 3 or 4 SCDSL games.  All were critical parts of her development but the biggest part was her desire to improve and play at the highest level.  Without the kid's own desire being the driving force, nothing will develop a player.


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## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> I agree with you MAP.   SCDSL was not formed to create a better developmental environment for players.  It was over a turf war.  I also understand (not sure if this is an urban legend or not)  that around that time a bunch of European clubs wanted to set up academies that would have been free for players in SoCal but the big clubs squeezed them out of the market by preventing them from participating in the local leagues.


Based on @MakeAPlay's description, it sounds like CSL wouldn't accommodate clubs who chose to have teams participate in ECNL.  That's not so much a turf war (a two-way battle) as it was CSL forcing these clubs to leave CSL if they wanted to give their players the opportunity to participate in this new, unique national league.  The new local league they formed was an open league, so the league's top teams (whether from ECNL clubs or not) were able to play each other. 

That's not quite parallel with DPL.  The SW DA-only clubs could have had all their non-DA teams continue to play in SCDSL (or CSL) if they wanted.  Instead those ten clubs unilaterally chose to form a local league closed to all but their own teams.  The consequence is weakened top brackets in both CSL and SCDSL as well as weakened league competition for the players on the better DPL teams.  Whereas the ECNL clubs seem to have formed SCDSL in order to allow their top players to gain access to a unique level of competition, DPL seems to have been formed irrespective of the competitive impact.

My daughter is not YNT level like @MakeAPlay's.  If your objective is similar to mine, we both want our players to get high quality training and to have consistent competition against well-trained like-quality opponents.  Whether our daughters choose to play in DPL, SCDSL or CSL, it seems we are farther away from that objective than we were a year ago.  That's a big part of why I'm so critical of DPL.


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## shortBUTslow

MakeAPlay said:


> SCDSL's foundation was made necessary by Gary Sparks (God rest his soul) not wanting to allow the ECNL teams to  count their ECNL games as Premier games.  In addition, the ECNL teams wanted their top teams to have guaranteed placement in the Premier bracket (an invitation only bracket).  Sparks refused that and an ECNL compromise that was offered that would not have the ECNL clubs' top teams play in Premier.  This was unacceptable to Mr. Sparks (because how could you say CSL Premier is the top league in the country if the top teams in SoCal didn't play in it) and he told the ECNL teams that all of the clubs' teams would be barred from competing if the top teams did not play.  That was his major miscalculation.  The ECNL clubs formed a league for their other teams and most of the top clubs came along for two reasons.  #1 they wanted to have the ability to play against the clubs that were consistently the strongest in the region.  #2 (a happy side effect) they no longer had the CSL restriction of 3 teams per age group.  Reason #2 (the side effect) had the unfortunate consequence that anyone that could afford to write a check could get their kid on a brand named club (thus watering down said brand and the overall competition level in SoCal).
> 
> This all was a series of unfortunate events that unfolded over the course of my player's club career.  Prior to the breakdown all the best teams in SoCal (on the girls side) other than Surf and Carlsbad Lightning (and to a lesser extent PQ Premier) played in CSL.  Surf would have played their too but they were banned for some political reason.
> 
> Those are the facts....


And just to color some further background and irony...

RSC led the SCDSL charge (look at who was the original president and current VP).. As the card carrying club of the 'we love ECNL' society.. were more than happy to extend a middle finger to CSL in how they recruited the smaller clubs to join in those first 2 years.    It is true that Sparks blew it, but he deserves credit for the original structure that gave us CSL Premier - which, given the current landscape, should be remembered with great nostalgia, and maybe a bit of reverence.  

In any case, fast forward to last year when the girls DA clubs were being announced.  Lo and behold RSC was left out of the initial announcements.  I can only image the panic behind the scene, as RSC lobbied its way into the girls DA, only to be dropped 5 mins later by the ECNL like a bad habit.  Business is business, and no one will care in the long run - but the idea that the big clubs are loyal to anything other than the bottom line is hopelessly misplaced.

What exists now is a mess.... (and considerably less fun).  The good news is the SoCal soccer landscape is a lot like the weather in Dallas. It is ok if you don't like it, because it is guaranteed to change.


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