# Are GotSoccer.com and youthsoccerrankings.us rankings worth anything?



## JE1212Y (Jul 31, 2019)

What are your thoughts on GotSoccer.com and youthsoccerrankings.us rankings?


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## LASTMAN14 (Jul 31, 2019)

GS point ranking system is a POS. YSR gives you each teams record and uses a algorithm to weigh the quality of a teams opponent. In the end it gives you decent idea of who you are playing.


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## Mystery Train (Jul 31, 2019)

JE1212Y said:


> What are your thoughts on GotSoccer.com and youthsoccerrankings.us rankings?


In my experience, the Youthsoccerrankings.com information has been fairly accurate in predicting how competitive matches will be between teams.  There's always exceptions, and because club teams so often change and add players or suddenly merge with other teams, it's hard for any system of predicting outcomes to be really great.  Because the DA team information usually isn't captured on these systems, you have to take the "rank" of each team with a grain of salt.  But if you want something that gives you an idea of how evenly matched teams are, YSR does a pretty good job.  GS is worthless in both regards.


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## Multi Sport (Jul 31, 2019)

JE1212Y said:


> What are your thoughts on GotSoccer.com and youthsoccerrankings.us rankings?


Depends on what software the tournament you are trying to enter uses for rankings..


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## socalkdg (Jul 31, 2019)

Mystery Train said:


> In my experience, the Youthsoccerrankings.com information has been fairly accurate in predicting how competitive matches will be between teams.  There's always exceptions, and because club teams so often change and add players or suddenly merge with other teams, it's hard for any system of predicting outcomes to be really great.  Because the DA team information usually isn't captured on these systems, you have to take the "rank" of each team with a grain of salt.  But if you want something that gives you an idea of how evenly matched teams are, YSR does a pretty good job.  GS is worthless in both regards.


YSR does get DA scores.  4 of the top 5 teams for 05 girls are DA


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## TangoCity (Jul 31, 2019)

JE1212Y said:


> What are your thoughts on GotSoccer.com and youthsoccerrankings.us rankings?


Rankings are worthless.  Only good thing is to see results from (most) their games.


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## timmyh (Jul 31, 2019)

socalkdg said:


> YSR does get DA scores.  4 of the top 5 teams for 05 girls are DA


YSR doesn't really do a good job with DA teams.  Because DA is a closed league with very few games against non - DA teams, the algorithm doesn't have enough good data points. It works pretty well in comparing the DA clubs amongst each other, but not all that well in comparing them to the other non-DA teams in an age group.

ECNL (and all other teams  for that matter) teams play many more games against teams outside of their league so there are a lot of data points to smooth out the noise and YSR works quite well in comparing them with the caveat that it is backwards looking and obviously can't account for roster turnover or injuries.

It is vastly superior to any other ranking system out there. Those guys do a great job.


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## Surf Zombie (Aug 1, 2019)

A couple seasons ago, my daughters 2007  team  was the #1 Got Soccer ranked team in the known universe. 



We had played in a ton of tournaments (9 or 10 if I recall)  and they had a really good run. While they were a great little team, in reality they were not even the top team in Region 1, never mind nation wide. Two region one teams, Clarkstown & PDA Heat were inarguably stronger teams and our girls lost to both of them down the road. Interestingly both Clarkstown & PDA Heat remain top 12 YSR teams nationwide to this day.  While YSR has its issues, it’s light years better than Got Soccer for figuring out how strong any particular team really is. Got Soccer is really just about which teams have gobbled up the most points from winning tournaments that they are affiliated with.


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## BigSoccer (Aug 1, 2019)

They are fun to look and see who you played and the team you are playing played and if you beat that team and the other team lost to that team you feel you should win.  
YSR is better but in the end some regions are stronger or leagues are stronger.

I have seen the we are #1 in the country facebook posts and always think if they played anyone else in the top 10.


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## ReVolted (Aug 1, 2019)

YSR is light years ahead of Got Soccer in terms of accuracy as if you play a Tourney that does not use the GotSoccer software for the standings in a given tournament then those games will not show up in the rankings.  YSR on the other hand provides a great insight on trends of teams based on their game history by capturing results from tournaments, league games, showcases... etc.  

The YSRs can provide current trends for teams vs RECENT higher and/or lower ranked teams to give yourself a gauge as to what to expect if playing an upcoming game vs a specific team.  For example, if a team with a rank "Score" of 39 plays a couple of recent games vs teams with a 37 "Score" but barely beats those lower teams you can expect that the 39 team is trending down.  Whereas teams that are playing teams with a higher rank/score are beating or tying those higher teams you can expect a team that is playing at the top of their game.  I know of a local team that recently BEAT AND tied the currently ranked #1 team in the nation that is sitting at rank #27 Nationally.  

The recent National ENPL Playoffs in Chicago AND the Finals in Denver have not been added to the YSR because the ENPL has not provided the connection/licensing to their game tracking tournament software. 

NOTE:  Teams must have around 10 games in their recent history in order to qualify to be ranked on YSR.


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## dawson (Aug 1, 2019)

YSR gives a fairly complete history of most teams including DA and ECNL . 
If you are at all interested in whether you are playing a strong or weak team you can get a pretty a quick indication using YSR . 

There are hundreds of teams playing in each age group including olders . If your not interested in who you are playing then I guess it's obsolete .


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## RedCard (Aug 1, 2019)

The way I see it is:
Gotsoccer rankings is only from tournaments that are listed on their website.
Youth Soccer Rankings is from most/many more tournaments and from most leagues. 
Therefore YSR is more accurate.


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## jrcaesar (Aug 1, 2019)

*Yes, and.....*YSR makes it very easy to link and unlink records for teams, so if you click on *REPORT ERRORS* and take 3 minutes to clean up your kid's teams' schedules and opponents on YSR (for instance, if you see an opponent's league games are missing), that will improve the system for everyone else. Even if you just know the team you're on now and the team you used to be on, that helps everyone. 

The YSR system seems to have a tough time sorting out SD/Presidio League teams and games beyond the current season, but does a good job with CSL and SCDSL. Where it needs parents/coaches to override is when a coach/team all moves to another club.


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## Woodwork (Aug 1, 2019)

YSR is obviously better.   The two big issues it has are:

1.  Sometimes it confuses teams and puts results from Team A for Team B and vice versa.
2.  Its ranking isn't actually based on who beat who.  It is based on goal differential between teams.  So, if your team beat a team ranked 300, which has a score of 20, by 19 points, YSR would think your team should have 39 points.  (YSR goes on averages, so this would actually occur if you play the bottom 10 teams and beat them by an average of 19 points).  So, it can kind of reward teams for racking up points in a less competitive schedule.

Ultimately, if a team plays an equal number of teams better than it and teams worse than it, it will even out, but that is not always the case.  Also, the second point above highlights a lesser issue, which is that YSR can be fairly accurate as far as general ranking, but not as to the point-spread predictions.  A team with two points higher will, at the younger ages, usually beat the lower team by 4-5 points.

As an aside, I would let the site's webmaster know that they could save a lot of time by not using U-## designations instead of just birth year.  They could have saved a lot of time and effort by using the birth year as the only identifier because currently they have to move everything around when u15 becomes u16. (They have been transitioning recently, and it is screwy.)


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## mccorn (Aug 1, 2019)

The better system is one that has our team ranked higher 

YSR has a better concept in my opinion. Both systems have their flaws.


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## Simisoccerfan (Aug 1, 2019)

The only one that cares about rankings is parents.   As your player gets older the ranking become more inaccurate and are really meaningless.   Actual game results are the only thing that matters and that is not absolute due to a  variety factors including who is rostered that day, injuries, travel etc.


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## Woodwork (Aug 1, 2019)

Simisoccerfan said:


> The only one that cares about rankings is parents.   As your player gets older the ranking become more inaccurate and are really meaningless.   Actual game results are the only thing that matters and that is not absolute due to a  variety factors including who is rostered that day, injuries, travel etc.


I don't know that most parents care about these much more than players.  I don't think I have seen anyone on the forum get excited that their team was "top 5" in YSR or something like that versus top 10, though it can be shorthand for about how good a team is.  Posters here seem mostly to care about season and tournament flights/results.

At the end of the day, if someone wants information on a team's game history to get a sense of what level the team plays at or what events it participates in, YSR is a great resource.  It helps in sizing up the opponent and managing expectations or in choosing a new team.  The ranking itself need not be perfectly accurate to be useful.


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## timbuck (Aug 1, 2019)

Agreed on the above.  It's helpful to see who else a team has a played or when their most recent game was played.
But summer and winter tournaments don't really give a clear picture due to guests and/or missing players.
But I think they are both accurate within about 30 places either direction.  A team ranked 70th, 100th or 130th on either site will likely have a decent matchup between a team ranked between 70th and 130th.


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## whatithink (Aug 1, 2019)

ReVolted said:


> NOTE:  Teams must have around 10 games in their recent history in order to qualify to be ranked on YSR.


I agree YSR is better, but the 10 game min is factually incorrect. We created a couple of scratch teams last season across for two tournaments. Both teams played 6/7 games total, ever. They are both listed in YSR (still). They will never existing again.

YSR is still better though ...


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## espola (Aug 1, 2019)

Back when I cared about this stuff, Gotsoccer didn't even use league games in their calculations.

Their open forum was my first intro to youth soccer discussions online, until Gavin shut it down because it was too rowdy.  It wasn't as good as this one, however, in any of its incarnations.


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## BigSoccer (Aug 1, 2019)

I have seen coaches post that they are #1 in the state or country and wear it like a nice Christmas sweater.  They will put there "be it live it own it.." statements next to the picture.


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## OCsoccerdad7777 (Aug 1, 2019)

"1. Sometimes it confuses teams and puts results from Team A for Team B and vice versa."

And also a lot of times during tourneys, the coaches who normally put their last name as part of the team entry take it off so only shows the club name.

So that also may affect true rankings. 

If they end up sucking, won't mess up their actual ranking. 

The parents who actually have teams in Top 10/20 Cal South, etc are very knowledgeable and do care from what I've seen. They do love talking about it lol


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## Josep (Aug 1, 2019)

No. They falsely feed insane parents looking to brag on Facebook.  

Skip and enjoy the games on the field.


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## lastkid (Aug 6, 2019)

You can accumulate a bunch of gotsoccer points playing in bronze level tournaments that use their software.  You end up with a very high ranking as a tier 3 team.  A good flight 1 team can have a low ranking because they don't do many gotsoccer tournaments.  The only benefit is to look at the opponents to see how they did against teams you know.


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## forsomuch (Aug 7, 2019)

Are they worth anything? Duh, they're worth about $3,000 in annual club dues from upper middle-class parents!


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 7, 2019)

Josep said:


> No. They falsely feed insane parents looking to brag on Facebook.
> 
> Skip and enjoy the games on the field.


Heard a lot of bragging on the sidelines this last weekend. Very obnoxious. Facebook not needed when you have a sideline from the other team to hear what ranking your team is at, how good ones kid is, and that they made ODP.


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## SplitSoccerFamMom (Aug 7, 2019)

Multi Sport said:


> Depends on what software the tournament you are trying to enter uses for rankings..


Surf Cup rankings thru GOTSOCCER were worthless in determing quality this past weekend


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## Multi Sport (Aug 8, 2019)

SplitSoccerFamMom said:


> Surf Cup rankings thru GOTSOCCER were worthless in determing quality this past weekend


I never said anything about quality. They are just rankings based on points you earn playing in certain tournaments. The teams thst play in the most tournaments will generally be ranked higher but that is no indication of how good they are.


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## Desert Hound (Aug 8, 2019)

RedCard said:


> The way I see it is:
> Gotsoccer rankings is only from tournaments that are listed on their website.
> Youth Soccer Rankings is from most/many more tournaments and from most leagues.
> Therefore YSR is more accurate.


In AZ at least gotsoccer.com awards points for how you place in a league. Now maybe that has changed recently. My DD hasnt been on a team that plays in any AZ league now for some time.

I do recall one glaring example of how bad gotsoccer.com rankings are from a few years ago. Our team played in a small tournament and we were in the top bracket...and the top bracket was very weak. 2 teams from the states top league and the rest from lower divisions. The team that won the tournament got more points for that tournament vs what gotsoccer awarded the team who won the top league in the state that year and also gave more points vs the team who actually won the state tournament that year.

Never liked gotsoccer. YSR is much better.


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## espola (Aug 8, 2019)

Desert Hound said:


> In AZ at least gotsoccer.com awards points for how you place in a league. Now maybe that has changed recently. My DD hasnt been on a team that plays in any AZ league now for some time.
> 
> I do recall one glaring example of how bad gotsoccer.com rankings are from a few years ago. Our team played in a small tournament and we were in the top bracket...and the top bracket was very weak. 2 teams from the states top league and the rest from lower divisions. The team that won the tournament got more points for that tournament vs what gotsoccer awarded the team who won the top league in the state that year and also gave more points vs the team who actually won the state tournament that year.
> 
> Never liked gotsoccer. YSR is much better.


My son's team had a good summer where they won 4 local tournaments in a row, some of them by PKs in the final.  They were ranked someting like #6 in California accordin to TS.  Then reality set in and they faded from sight by Labor Day.


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## keepermom2then1 (Aug 8, 2019)

I am really Keepermom2.  For some reason I can't get into my account and I can't get a password reset.

Any way, I have never paid attention to soccer rankings until the recent months.  I started looking because we are on a new team with over half the team being new and the stars seemed to align such that we are a pretty good team.  The base team was Flight 2 last year but I have spent enough time in this crazy soccer world to know that we are a flight 1 team.  I have never cared about flight level and I especially don't care about being on a winning team because being on a winning team doesn't serve my goalkeeper well for development.  We have only lost 2 games in the last 5 months 19 games with one of those being lost in Pk's.  If we aren't losing, then we aren't playing strong enough competition is my view.  Before each tournament, I look at our competition ranking to anticipate what kind of game it is going to be.

On YSR we are ranked 66 and on Gotsoccer, we are ranked 41.  It appears to me Gotsoccer puts more emphasis on what has been done lately which makes sense for us with such a significant change in our team makeup.  Having said that, it also puts us above our ECNL team by a couple of spots and that is not accurate and appears to be because our ECNL team has not played any tournaments since January.  

On YSR, we are ranked behind some teams we have beat by as much as 23 spots so that doesn't make sense either.

On YSR, teams get hit hard in the scoring if they lose against us because we are ranked so much lower than what we really are so I don't think that is fair either.

I have surmised that Youth Soccer Rankings is better for DA and ECNL teams and Got Soccer for the rest since Got Soccer puts more emphasis on recent performance in tournaments and the rest of us play more tournaments and have more changes in team makeup from year to year thus putting emphasis on recent performance makes more sense for the rest of us.  (Of course ignoring the DA and ECNL rankings in Got Soccer as inaccurate) 

Both systems could be improved with certain tweeks in the algorithms.


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## timbuck (Sep 2, 2019)

Got soccer observations from my perspective.
Our team had a decent tournament run last year -  Mostly playing in lowest bracket allowed.  Moved us to into the "Top 90" in our age group.
This year, we played in slightly more challenging tournaments (Not quite Surf Cup level) and played in the top flight when it was available.  We only play 1 tournament a month.  Not the best way to accumulate lots of points.
And since points reset every year, we took a steep drop a few weeks ago.
Our team is essentially the same roster as a year ago.  And we rarely bring in ringers as guests.

Doesn't really matter-  Looking forward to the season starting next week.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 2, 2019)

Got soccer is not good.  
YSR is much better based on the following: 
- Teams move up in score  if they beat teams that are ranked higher than them. 
- Good teams that beat bad teams don't get hardly any jump in score
- If you lose by 3 goals or more, you will drop in points
- Teams that haven't played more than 4 or 5 games don't get ranked.

The down side that is that often times you will see two sets of data for the same team and it's up to the team manager or coach to tell YSR to merge the records. 


Generally speaking, I think it's fairly accurate  with a  +/-  5 team separation.  Meaning if you are ranked 20, you could be 15 or you could be 25.  


Just remember, millions have been poured into better ranking organizations such as BCS college football ranking and every year there's drama.   You should expect this to be somewhat incorrect as well.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 2, 2019)

keepermom2then1 said:


> I am really Keepermom2.  For some reason I can't get into my account and I can't get a password reset.
> 
> Any way, I have never paid attention to soccer rankings until the recent months.  I started looking because we are on a new team with over half the team being new and the stars seemed to align such that we are a pretty good team.  The base team was Flight 2 last year but I have spent enough time in this crazy soccer world to know that we are a flight 1 team.  I have never cared about flight level and I especially don't care about being on a winning team because being on a winning team doesn't serve my goalkeeper well for development.  We have only lost 2 games in the last 5 months 19 games with one of those being lost in Pk's.  If we aren't losing, then we aren't playing strong enough competition is my view.  Before each tournament, I look at our competition ranking to anticipate what kind of game it is going to be.
> 
> ...


GotSoccer is useless by just about every metric. YSR collates all results, certain errors aside it's pretty darn good


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## socalkdg (Sep 2, 2019)

I know we had a couple tournaments recently that used the rankings for assigning brackets.   GotSoccer is better than it used to be by allowing league play to get included.  YSR is still a bit better.   Neither system will ever be perfect based on the turnover some teams have or the tourney stacking they might do.


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## timbuck (Sep 2, 2019)

I also noticed today that the DPL league is using got soccer for schedules.


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## jrcaesar (Sep 2, 2019)

People might be missing the benefit of YSR: The *ratings *(not the _rankings_) that tell you whether your team is >1 goal better or >1 goal worse than the team you are about to play. This rating, in my experience, accurately forecasts the relative strength of the two teams. Teams within a 1 goal rating (e.g., Team A is 34.05 and Team B is 34.95) are roughly even, in my viewings of games.


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