# Desperate coach or caring coach?



## Deadpoolscores! (Mar 22, 2017)

I came across my friend recently that spotted a very talented player on a rec team and has a lot of potential. A lot of coaches were trying to recruit her for club but the parents felt that it would be too much for her. My friend emphasize how much natural ability and love the game their DD had. He explained that she can learn more and would hate to see her obtaining bad habits from rec and fall behind if she continues to play rec once they felt that she should play club. Also he emphasized that he has seen players in rec in the past with great talent lose passion for the game over time and were surpass by players that made the jump. Still the father had reservations because of the price as well, but my friend told him that he would remove the majority of the coaching fee if finances were an issue.

Does he come across desperate or a coach that cares for the player that can has a lot of potential. He doesn’t care much for the money because he has a good paying job. His team is coming together since it’s a new team.


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## Grace T. (Mar 22, 2017)

"remove the majority of the coaching fee if finances were an issue".  That's always tricky.  It will probably eventually come out to the other parents on the team that the fee has been waived (and life being what it is, it usually happens at the worst possible time).  They will naturally ask themselves why does my kid have to pay-to-play but that kid doesn't.  Unless it's very obvious the rec kid is a scholarship/hardship case (and the same hardships don't exist for other families...e.g. it's a poor family in a rich neighborhood), or that the rec kid is going to be far and away the star player for the team (and that's just the price to recruit them and there aren't any other stars), the disparate treatment is going to rub families the wrong way.  In our club there's even been some grumbling that keeper training is free, but the field players need to pay for their friday academy options.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Mar 22, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> "remove the majority of the coaching fee if finances were an issue".  That's always tricky.  It will probably eventually come out to the other parents on the team that the fee has been waived (and life being what it is, it usually happens at the worst possible time).  They will naturally ask themselves why does my kid have to pay-to-play but that kid doesn't.  Unless it's very obvious the rec kid is a scholarship/hardship case (and the same hardships don't exist for other families...e.g. it's a poor family in a rich neighborhood), or that the rec kid is going to be far and away the star player for the team (and that's just the price to recruit them and there aren't any other stars), the disparate treatment is going to rub families the wrong way.  In our club there's even been some grumbling that keeper training is free, but the field players need to pay for their friday academy options.


I believe you nail it when it came to poor family in a rich neighborhood.


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## Grace T. (Mar 22, 2017)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> I believe you nail it when it came to poor family in a rich neighborhood.


Well, my only note is that it at least gives the coach a justification he can defend, but it doesn't necessarily spare him the drama.  You don't know what the circumstances are of the other families-- sometimes people spend over their means for their kids education, or even just to keep up with the Joneses, and a health incident or divorce could strain family finances.  If the poor family is a minority and the rest of the families aren't, there might be some not-so-nice people in that mix that will want to make something of it, particularly once it becomes known the kid is a scholarship case.  And if the kid either doesn't work hard or live up to their potential, the not so nice members of the group might question "why are we carrying this kid", perhaps erroneously believing they've picked up an additional share of the costs.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Mar 22, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Well, my only note is that it at least gives the coach a justification he can defend, but it doesn't necessarily spare him the drama.  You don't know what the circumstances are of the other families-- sometimes people spend over their means for their kids education, or even just to keep up with the Joneses, and a health incident or divorce could strain family finances.  If the poor family is a minority and the rest of the families aren't, there might be some not-so-nice people in that mix that will want to make something of it, particularly once it becomes known the kid is a scholarship case.  And if the kid either doesn't work hard or live up to their potential, the not so nice members of the group might question "why are we carrying this kid", perhaps erroneously believing they've picked up an additional share of the costs.


I believe he's basically taking a pay cut in order to reduce to price and not pass it on to the other parents.


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## younothat (Mar 22, 2017)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> I believe he's basically taking a pay cut in order to reduce to price and not pass it on to the other parents.


How does a coach take a pay cut by the club not charging one player full price?  Are coaches authorized to offer financial assistance without going through a formal process?

Don't clubs have financially assistance program where players apply, parents finances are reviewed and assistance can be granted without taking it out on fellow parents or coaches?


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## espola (Mar 22, 2017)

younothat said:


> How does a coach take a pay cut by the club not charging one player full price?  Are coaches authorized to offer financial assistance without going through a formal process?
> 
> Don't clubs have financially assistance program where players apply, parents finances are reviewed and assistance can be granted without taking it out on fellow parents or coaches?


I have seen coaches and mangers that paid a player's fees out of their own money.  There is nothing illegal or unethical about it.


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## younothat (Mar 22, 2017)

espola said:


> I have seen coaches and mangers that paid a player's fees out of their own money.  There is nothing illegal or unethical about it.


Yeah taken  part in a lot of fundraising, charity stuff but that's not what I would consider a pay cut.   Good for them, those that are helping out.

Do clubs not have policies for financial assistance? are coaches really authorized to handle and offer players financial invective's as part of recruiting?


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## timbuck (Mar 22, 2017)

What age and how big is the roster?
My understanding is that after a certain point on a roster, that all money is essentially profit.
I think for an 11v11 team, that after 14 players, the rest of the money is almost all extra.  Whether that goes to the coach, the club or for scholarships, I don't know.


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## espola (Mar 22, 2017)

younothat said:


> Yeah taken  part in a lot of fundraising, charity stuff but that's not what I would consider a pay cut.   Good for them, those that are helping out.
> 
> Do clubs not have policies for financial assistance? are coaches really authorized to handle and offer players financial invective's as part of recruiting?


I can only speak for the few clubs I have been on the inside of.  A coach or manager paying a player's fees, or providing travel assistance, is not a problem for me or any club I have been associated with.  I have also seen some clubs in other sports (basketball, baseball, indoor soccer) where the coach paid all the fees, I suspect so that no one could complain about recruits and cuts.


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## Grace T. (Mar 22, 2017)

younothat said:


> Yeah taken  part in a lot of fundraising, charity stuff but that's not what I would consider a pay cut.   Good for them, those that are helping out.
> 
> Do clubs not have policies for financial assistance? are coaches really authorized to handle and offer players financial invective's as part of recruiting?


 I'm surprised too if there aren't rules for this.  In football, for example, youth tournie teams have often been accused of paying ringers to play (e.g. downpayments on new cars and paying rent).  Led to a crackdown a few years back on recruiting and a bunch of teams in red states getting suspended.  While the motivation here might be to help, in football's case the excuses used also was hardship and helping out.  You'd think they'd want oversight over this to avoid repeating the mistakes of football.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Mar 22, 2017)

I wouldn't call it desperate or caring.  The coach just wants to win.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Mar 22, 2017)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> I wouldn't call it desperate or caring.  The coach just wants to win.


Please explain how it's considered that he just wants to win lol. Explain your rational.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Mar 22, 2017)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> Please explain how it's considered that he just wants to win lol. Explain your rational.


Isn't it obvious?  Caring would be a coach going out and raising money/giving scholarships for families in need regardless of how good the players are.  And I wouldn't call it desperate because it's natural for coaches to want to have good players on their team...nothing wrong with that.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Mar 22, 2017)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Isn't it obvious?  Caring would be a coach going out and raising money/giving scholarships for families in need regardless of how good the players are.  And I wouldn't call it desperate because it's natural for coaches to want to have good players on their team...nothing wrong with that.


I like your rational...now I can go make fun of him lol.


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## HBE (Mar 22, 2017)

He's recruiting lol what coach goes out to A-SO games to watch unless he's there to recruit....


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## Deadpoolscores! (Mar 23, 2017)

HBE said:


> He's recruiting lol what coach goes out to A-SO games to watch unless he's there to recruit....


sometimes they go to watch family members lol.


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## HBE (Mar 23, 2017)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> sometimes they go to watch family members lol.


Lol, he says he's watching family members but his real reason is to recruit!


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## socalkdg (Mar 24, 2017)

HBE said:


> Lol, he says he's watching family members but his real reason is to recruit!


That is funny, one of our coaches is going to come watch one of my daughters games but is there to recruit one girl.

Hadn't really ran into recruiting much until this year, interesting to watch, even more to be a part of it as a parent.

My daughter is guest playing with a spring select AYSO team for the fall.  Gets her playing time on the field since she plays keeper for club.    Our complete club roster is coming back next year, 16 girls, and the coaches don't believe in dropping any of the girls as long as they have been putting in the effort.  We have one space open, and there is a girl on the select team that would be a great(I mean really great) addition to our club team.  She is a big fast strong aggressive monster of a player on defense that doesn't mind contact, just needs more touches, better ball control, etc.   

So the select team is planning on going to Extra next year, but this girl would be better off jumping up a couple levels and playing club.  I've refereed with the Dad, and plan on approaching him about club.  The problem is I like the two coaches on the select team as well.  One of our coaches is going to come watch our game and sit with us, but also plans on watching the player.   Feel torn on whether we should help the recruiting process.   I may just talk the to dad about our club experience and let him know what other choices are out there.   I have joked with the two coaches that I was going to recruit their players.  I think giving a player options is in the best interest of all parties.


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## Grace T. (Mar 24, 2017)

socalkdg said:


> That is funny, one of our coaches is going to come watch one of my daughters games but is there to recruit one girl.
> 
> Hadn't really ran into recruiting much until this year, interesting to watch, even more to be a part of it as a parent.
> 
> ...



Isn't EXTRAs supposed to be a blind merit based tryout, or is that just our region?  Taking an entire select team into EXTRAs would be a big no no here according to the rules, but as I've witnessed, the entire blind merit based tryout thing is mostly just for show and as with most things, at the end of the day, politics rule. My point is if you do have a blind EXTRAS tryout out, at least on the face of it, the team has no implied obligation to the player, and the player has no implied obligation to the team, according to the rules at least.


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## jrcaesar (Mar 24, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Isn't EXTRAs supposed to be a blind merit based tryout, or is that just our region?


Yes, it is supposed to be for all AYSO Extra leagues and teams. But it mostly isn't.


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## socalkdg (Mar 28, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Isn't EXTRAs supposed to be a blind merit based tryout, or is that just our region?  Taking an entire select team into EXTRAs would be a big no no here according to the rules, but as I've witnessed, the entire blind merit based tryout thing is mostly just for show and as with most things, at the end of the day, politics rule. My point is if you do have a blind EXTRAS tryout out, at least on the face of it, the team has no implied obligation to the player, and the player has no implied obligation to the team, according to the rules at least.


Using my daughter to buddy up with potential recruits is a good or bad thing?   

The select girls receive extra training, were some of the better players to start off with, thus have a major head start over many of the others that tryout so I can understand a number of them making the team.   It then comes down to the amount of pull that the Extra coach might have to get the players they want.     We always comment on teams that just grab the big and fast girl, but speed and quickness seem to be more difficult to teach then foot skills.  The Extra tryouts don't take speed into account enough, in my opinion, while a club coach sees the fastest girl out there on the field and figures they can teach soccer skills to that girl.


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