# Club soccer and other teams



## S00CER1 (Feb 25, 2017)

Just curious if most stop having their kids play on other teams such as select or extra after beginning club and at what age. My DD has been on a select team for the past several years and we decided to join a club team last year. She played on both last year as she really wanted to play with friends, but questioning it this select season as I see some bad advice being given.


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## soccerobserver (Feb 25, 2017)

S1, what age group?


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## timbuck (Feb 25, 2017)

What kind of "bad advice?"


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## S00CER1 (Feb 26, 2017)

She's a ulittle - 06. The coach essentially wants to make their daughter the star.  Teaching kids to funnel everything to their daughter who plays center forward.  Nothing about taking space and finding open teammates. It's the opposite of what she's been taught and I have to remind her she is doing it correctly even though she is corrected at her select practice.


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## NoGoal (Feb 26, 2017)

S00CER1 said:


> She's a ulittle - 06. The coach essentially wants to make their daughter the star.  Teaching kids to funnel everything to their daughter who plays center forward.  Nothing about taking space and finding open teammates. It's the opposite of what she's been taught and I have to remind her she is doing it correctly even though she is corrected at her select practice.


I always hated when my DD played for daddy coaches.  It's always about their DDs playing the most and the offense revolving around their kid even when their DD wasn't the best at that position.


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## LASTMAN14 (Feb 26, 2017)

S00CER1 said:


> She's a ulittle - 06. The coach essentially wants to make their daughter the star.  Teaching kids to funnel everything to their daughter who plays center forward.  Nothing about taking space and finding open teammates. It's the opposite of what she's been taught and I have to remind her she is doing it correctly even though she is corrected at her select practice.


Per your scenario I would have your daughter play club and give up Select/Extra. As you mentioned it's becoming counter intuitive. Must like your experience we had a very same situation with our 06 daughter. She wanted to play one more year of AYSO while playing club. So we played her up (at the time she was U8 and played her at U10). The assistant coach dictated that all the girls play the ball to his daughter. Couldn't wait to move on. Our daughter was done with it as well.


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## timbuck (Feb 26, 2017)

Conflicting advice can be a bit confusing, but kids are smarter than we give them credit for.  They can usually adjust based on what that particular coach/team asks them to do. 
If your daughter likes the team because "it's fun and she gets to play with friends", I don't see a lot of harm in letting a 10 year old do this. 
Sucks that the dad runs it all through his daughter, but a lot of teams (club and rec) have a core player or 2 they try to run things through. If this player wasn't the coaches daughter would you feel the same way?


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## Yolinda (Feb 26, 2017)

I would move her to another team.  You need a coach that isn't going to play favorites.


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## Bdobyns (Feb 26, 2017)

I would put her on a club swim team to build up her overall strength and cardiovascular endurance.  You want your kid to show up in a Ferrari not a Yugo to the race. If you have the money, get her on a competitive club team that has a tradition for getting kids into college (and not one of the local satellite clubs that just rent the club’s name.  You can always leave the club at a later date but it might be hard to get into the door as a u-older.  I want to say, sadly, gone are the days where smaller clubs could be competitive with the larger ones.


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## soccerobserver (Feb 26, 2017)

S1, the transition from AYSOSelect/Extra into club is very common. Most in our area had to navigate the same transition. To me this is where being dad is so important... She is too young to see all of the issues. It seems like you are a great dad and doing a great job of seeing the situation and realizing you may need to guide her to a better path. Bdob is 100% correct.

Friends are on AYSO/Extra. If they are truly her friends then she can still be friends with them outside of soccer.

Coach is also daddy of the "star" player. I do not see how this benefits your daughter in any way. The whole set up is designed to serve the interests of the coach's family not your daughter. If your daughter is a decent player then they might try to guilt you and your kid into serving them longer. When you are not around, they could be making little comments to your daughter to keep her feeling obligated to them. No Bueno.

As club improves your daughter's skills and vision she will get bored with AYSO/Extra down the road.


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## socalkdg (Feb 27, 2017)

My 2005 daughter still plays both.   She is actively sought out for guesting with select and extra teams.   But she only plays the field, mid or forward, while guesting.   Because she mostly plays keeper for club, has a high engine that keeps here playing outside every day no matter what(mostly basketball on her off days), it makes sense for her to guest play.   

We make sure all her coaches know what is going on, and that when a conflict may arise, club always comes first.  I will say there are a good many select/extra teams that are better than many of the tier 3 / bronze club teams.  

I think every kids situation is different and we as parents must identify if playing with two clubs is good or bad.   If it allows your kid to grow as a player, learn new positions, and have fun without them appearing tired, then go for it.   I've started to notice a lot of boys and girls that still do both.


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## S00CER1 (Feb 27, 2017)

She is starting to see the light and asked why the coach's daughter automatically makes the team, but likes playing with her friends.  This is going to be her last year doing both. Having parent coaches creates too much drama especially as I start to see bigger differences in talent amongst girls at her age. Having daddy coaches trying to keep their daughters the star when there are clearly more talented players is disheartening to the players and parents who can see what is going on.  
Just curious I thought to guest for select or extra the player had to play at least 75% of the regular ayso league games.


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## younothat (Feb 27, 2017)

Some kids love playing so much they can't get enough soccer but its good to mix things up,   Instead of playing on a 2nd teams for somebody they went with futsal at a very young age and still play during the season breaks or pick up when they don't have games the next day.

For fun try futsal, you can play with friends and you don't need a coach necessarily.   My kids teams never did,  until about U10 they had a parent helping with the subs but after that they could mange but themselves, helps with communication and leadership skills development.  

Repetition use and over playing can happen even if the kids appear to have the energy to play at these young age so playing & practicing with 2 teams can be a risk.  IMO better to spend the time playing a 2nd sport or something different, kids normally have more fun & tune in better that way anyway.


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## socalkdg (Feb 27, 2017)

S00CER1 said:


> Just curious I thought to guest for select or extra the player had to play at least 75% of the regular ayso league games.


 I think it is 50%.   I did coach her on a core team in the fall to get her some field time since I knew she would be playing keeper, so she is eligible.   Possibly one of the reasons they want her since she is eligible.   If you do choose to play two teams, trying a new position is a great way to go.


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## Eagle33 (Feb 27, 2017)

S00CER1 said:


> She is starting to see the light and asked why the coach's daughter automatically makes the team, but likes playing with her friends.  This is going to be her last year doing both. Having parent coaches creates too much drama especially as I start to see bigger differences in talent amongst girls at her age. Having daddy coaches trying to keep their daughters the star when there are clearly more talented players is disheartening to the players and parents who can see what is going on.
> Just curious I thought to guest for select or extra the player had to play at least 75% of the regular ayso league games.


Be careful, in club you have plenty of same "daddy" coaches who brought their teams from Select or Extra.


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## Bdobyns (Feb 27, 2017)

My daughter played under two “daddy” coaches, and both were doing the best they could and tried to help every kid on the team.  Once we graduated to “club” coaches, I noticed that the team manager had an awful lot of pull when it came time to making decisions, so it may not always be the daddy coach.  I have also heard many rumors of club coaches, the professionals, that have no problem accepting a little extra help along the way which results in some kids getting more time on the field.  Let your imagination take that, and yes, it has happened.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Mar 1, 2017)

Eagle33 said:


> Be careful, in club you have plenty of same "daddy" coaches who brought their teams from Select or Extra.


Sounds like posting about Legends West except the coaches were from JUSA.


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## Grace T. (Mar 2, 2017)

Can someone answer a noob question about Extra's please.  AYSO makes a big deal that the tryouts are supposed to be blind.  In SoCal tryouts are even supposed to be with plain white shirts so that the evaluators can't tell who played on club or prior Extras teams.   But I've heard on the download from other parents that they still try and keep the teams from the prior year together, so you still have a better shot if you were on the team before...particularly if it was a winning team...true, or untrue?  

Also I'm in the same boat as some of the other keeper parents here.  My son is too darn good playing at keeper in club and the coach really needs him at that position.  He's only U9, however, and I worry about him being pigeon holed.  How do other folks manage timewise (practices/conflicting games) to do both AYSO (as a field player) and club (as a keeper)?  I can't imagine how someone can swing that (DS has practice 2x a week, a private trainer, and keeper practice 1x as it is, not to mention games).   I don't see how that's even possible.


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## S00CER1 (Mar 2, 2017)

Our experience has been with Select and Extra generally once you are on you are on. They usually have several openings due to attrition or move to a club team. Not sure that tryouts whether select/extra or club are that blinded. Most coaches have already decided on their players and go through tryouts as a formality unless a baby Messi shows up. 
We did both ayso and club this last year so she could play with her friends on select. We made her ayso coach and her select coach know that club takes priority. We tried our best with practices but in reality only made it to 1 ayso per week some weeks none and tried our best to make games. We disagreed with how the coach used our DD during ayso games especially when she had club games afterwards ( asked that she sit out at least a quarter and try defense, her weakness ), but instead played her at forward and mid to win games.  This year we are giving up ayso and finishing her commitment to select this spring - the whole reason we went through all the extra commitment in the fall.


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## mirage (Mar 2, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Can someone answer a noob question about Extra's please. ...true, or untrue?


True.  Extra teams can be very political for parents and much harder to break into, if you're are an outsider.  I'm not a fan of Extra, Select, Signature and alike.  We did just club and no rec/sudo-rec soccer once we transitioned to competitive club soccer.



Grace T. said:


> ...He's only U9, however, and I worry about him being pigeon holed.  How do other folks manage timewise (practices/conflicting games)......I don't see how that's even possible.


I would be worried too at that age. Even if your son likes playing GK, insist on him playing 1/2 the game on the field (e.g., 1st half GK, 2nd field player, preferably a Forward or attacking mid - most successful goalies were Forwards prior to committing as GK).  Ok to specialize by U13 or thereabout, as each position becomes quite tactical at high level. 

As for time, we didn't do rec and club soccer together but we did do travel baseball and club soccer together year around.  Many weekends doing both tournaments and overlapping 2 practices a night (1 each) on some nights. 

You cannot get overwhelmed by the schedule.  Don't think about it and just do it, as long as your kid wants to.  Doing this has made my son extremely skilled at time management.  I never have to get on him for school work. He just does it and gets it done.  He's a HS senior w/only 1 B since 6th grade. The rest all A's.  Lots of AP classes too.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Mar 2, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Can someone answer a noob question about Extra's please.  AYSO makes a big deal that the tryouts are supposed to be blind.  In SoCal tryouts are even supposed to be with plain white shirts so that the evaluators can't tell who played on club or prior Extras teams.   But I've heard on the download from other parents that they still try and keep the teams from the prior year together, so you still have a better shot if you were on the team before...particularly if it was a winning team...true, or untrue?
> 
> Also I'm in the same boat as some of the other keeper parents here.  My son is too darn good playing at keeper in club and the coach really needs him at that position.  He's only U9, however, and I worry about him being pigeon holed.  How do other folks manage timewise (practices/conflicting games) to do both AYSO (as a field player) and club (as a keeper)?  I can't imagine how someone can swing that (DS has practice 2x a week, a private trainer, and keeper practice 1x as it is, not to mention games).   I don't see how that's even possible.


AYSO Extra are never blind because the coach has a good idea who they are going to pick before the tryout. They have been scouting ahead of time, also for fairness purposes of course they are going to say that it's blind. The reality is this for Extra, parents that have kids trying out will have their Spring select or club jersey on to show they were elite or they are special. As for club, it would be the same but the difference is the coach will see who the player use to be affiliate to. For example if a player say, from Arsenal ECNL is at a Legends tryout wouldn't that player standout? Even more if they have their patch on, or a player that has a CRL patch? The coach will most likely look at them more closely than other players. The coaches will not turn away the player if they had their jersey on, which on contrary they will be glad to see those players trying out for their team.


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## Grace T. (Mar 2, 2017)

mirage said:


> I would be worried too at that age. Even if your son likes playing GK, insist on him playing 1/2 the game on the field (e.g., 1st half GK, 2nd field player, preferably a Forward or attacking mid - most successful goalies were Forwards prior to committing as GK).  Ok to specialize by U13 or thereabout, as each position becomes quite tactical at high level.
> 
> .


Well, the added problem is that it's U9 so his squad has 12 kids 7 on field at time.  As a keeper, he's a starter.  As a field player, he usually plays winger and is a middling player for his middling club.  It's u9 so it's early and he's gone from being an AYSO player ranked 1.5/5 his first year at U6, to a 3.5/5 at U7, to 5/5 at u8, to a rookie club year, so there's a lot of upside potential.  But right now, he's a natural at keeper, though only meh on the field which makes it difficult to demand playing time with the other benchers competing for the 6 non-keeper slots as well.


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## Grace T. (Mar 2, 2017)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> AYSO Extra are never blind because the coach has a good idea who they are going to pick before the tryout. They have been scouting ahead of time, also for fairness purposes of course they are going to say that it's blind. The reality is this for Extra, parents that have kids trying out will have their Spring select or club jersey on to show they were elite or they are special. A.


At least for EXTRAS, in the regions surrounding our home region the kids are required to wear plain white shirts without any club or select markings.  The evaluators who are checking them out are different from the coaches who will coach the team.  The rules say that the players with the highest points are supposed to win the slots, but 1) I can't see how that would work (you'd have a team of all fowards, and no keepers) and 2) I've been told by other parents in the know that it really doesn't work out that way and the coaches do have an influence, particularly if they are trying to keep a squad together.


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## MWN (Mar 2, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Can someone answer a noob question about Extra's please.  AYSO makes a big deal that the tryouts are supposed to be blind.  In SoCal tryouts are even supposed to be with plain white shirts so that the evaluators can't tell who played on club or prior Extras teams.   But I've heard on the download from other parents that they still try and keep the teams from the prior year together, so you still have a better shot if you were on the team before...particularly if it was a winning team...true, or untrue?
> 
> Also I'm in the same boat as some of the other keeper parents here.  My son is too darn good playing at keeper in club and the coach really needs him at that position.  He's only U9, however, and I worry about him being pigeon holed.  How do other folks manage timewise (practices/conflicting games) to do both AYSO (as a field player) and club (as a keeper)?  I can't imagine how someone can swing that (DS has practice 2x a week, a private trainer, and keeper practice 1x as it is, not to mention games).   I don't see how that's even possible.


I don't know anything about AYSO, but I do know about keepers.  My 03 Keeper will be playing up next season on a Flight 2 02' team.  Now, at age 13 or 14 to be successful, the technical skills needed for the position require a certain level of dedication.  That said, a U9 SHOULD NOT be sitting between the sticks all game.  Your club should have at least 2 keepers and a backup.  1/2 the game for one the other half for the other.  The kid is in the field when not between the sticks.

I have seen otherwise decent soccer players lose interest in the game and/or watch it pass them by because they were stuck as a keeper at an early age.  Some kids just stop growing and what was a successful U10 keeper is no longer a viable option at U14 because mom's 5'4" genes are dominant.

As far as playing Rec in the field and club as keeper there is another practical problem and that is most Rec kids simply don't have the ball skills and the game is basically kick ball.  Assuming your son has a good soccer IQ and decent club level skills, Rec may be actually stunt his growth.

My advise is to find a coach that understands U9 players need to be moved around the field (even the keepers) and learn the game from all facets, at this age it is about development and not winning (so sayeth US Soccer).


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## Grace T. (Mar 2, 2017)

MWN said:


> Your club should have at least 2 keepers and a backup.  1/2 the game for one the other half for the other.


They do.  DS, though, is the starting keeper but doesn't play the entire time in goal.



MWN said:


> My advise is to find a coach that understands U9 players need to be moved around the field (even the keepers) and learn the game from all facets, at this age it is about development and not winning (so sayeth US Soccer).


It's his rookie year in club, and I have been assured that he will get some field playing time at winger, but I'm a little nervous about this because it is a squad of 12 for 6 field positions + keeper.  If he's already playing 1/2 the game at keeper, it doesn't leave a whole lot of room.  I suppose I could look for a smaller squad, but around our area I'm not aware of any that have less than 10 players.  If it doesn't work out, and his skills continue to progress, I do intend to move him (at least I'll have a good answer now to the where did your player formerly play question), but I do want to continue his growth on the field.  I'd worry less if he were both a superstar on field and goal, but the jump from AYSO to Club is vast, and most of his teammates have a year of club already while he still has a ways to go.


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## MWN (Mar 2, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> They do.  DS, though, is the starting keeper but doesn't play the entire time in goal.
> 
> It's his rookie year in club, and I have been assured that he will get some field playing time at winger, but I'm a little nervous about this because it is a squad of 12 for 6 field positions + keeper.  If he's already playing 1/2 the game at keeper, it doesn't leave a whole lot of room.  I suppose I could look for a smaller squad, but around our area I'm not aware of any that have less than 10 players.  If it doesn't work out, and his skills continue to progress, I do intend to move him (at least I'll have a good answer now to the where did your player formerly play question), but I do want to continue his growth on the field.  I'd worry less if he were both a superstar on field and goal, but the jump from AYSO to Club is vast, and most of his teammates have a year of club already while he still has a ways to go.


@Grace T. - Based on your response, I suggest you take a step back and let things proceed in the natural course.   A lot of parents place far too much importance on "the game."  The game is just a 1 hour fun thing every weekend.  The real development takes place in practice.  Small sided games, some drills, more small sided games, drills, fitness, skills and more small sided games.   The fundamental problem with youth soccer over the years has been placing too much importance on winning.  This is changing with the new small sided mandate, prohibiting competitive soccer at the younger levels, etc.  If the boy is having fun at practice and in the games, gaining new skills and facing stiffer competition (at practice and the games) then he is right where he needs to be.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Mar 3, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> ...But right now, he's a natural at keeper, though only meh on the field...


If your kid is a natural at keeper, AND likes playing keeper, let him player keeper.  To work on his field skills have him play futsal and/or street soccer.  IMO, futsal & street soccer are  excellent ways for your kid to go out and work on their footwork without having to worry about the score or playing keeper.  My daughter is a FT keeper and has played street soccer & futsal this last year; she had a lot of fun, and got to work on her foot skills.  And it had the added bonus of making her a better keeper.   My $0.o2.


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## socalkdg (Mar 3, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Also I'm in the same boat as some of the other keeper parents here.  My son is too darn good playing at keeper in club and the coach really needs him at that position.  He's only U9, however, and I worry about him being pigeon holed.  How do other folks manage timewise (practices/conflicting games) to do both AYSO (as a field player) and club (as a keeper)?  I can't imagine how someone can swing that (DS has practice 2x a week, a private trainer, and keeper practice 1x as it is, not to mention games).   I don't see how that's even possible.


I coached so I could control the practice times.  Once or twice there was a game conflict.


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