# Surf Cup 2021 - Older Schedules up



## El Soccer Loco (Jul 7, 2021)

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						2021 Surf Cup - Olders
					






					2021surfcupolders.surfcupsports.com


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## keeprunning (Jul 11, 2021)

ECNL/RL event. I'm sure plenty of good teams got left out due to 4 letters.


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## RedCard (Jul 11, 2021)

keeprunning said:


> ECNL/RL event. I'm sure plenty of good teams got left out due to 4 letters.


My DD's team is a flight 1 team and we got in. But it's true that it's mostly ECNL/RL teams at least in the 05 brackets. And the brackets/groups seem more even compared to the Man City Cup last month.


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## oh canada (Jul 13, 2021)

Why are they still having them play 3-5 games in a weekend at the olders level?  Seems reckless to me (injuries).  Don't others feel similarly?


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 13, 2021)

oh canada said:


> Why are they still having them play 3-5 games in a weekend at the olders level?  Seems reckless to me (injuries).  Don't others feel similarly?


I think a large majority of us agree!


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## NorCalUSN (Jul 13, 2021)

I'm so excited for this tournament.  Especially my daughter's bracket.  It's gonna be so great.  I want to promote it and I'm thinking about getting some T-shirts made possible slogans 
"Super White is all right"
"If you're not Super White you aint nothing"
"Super White Power (Backside) ful feelings of joy"
.
.
.
Ok, if you didn't get it, that was meant to be a joke, sarcasm, whatever you want to call it.  Seriously though, Surf cup you couldn't come up with better bracket names?


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## Technician72 (Jul 13, 2021)

NorCalUSN said:


> I'm so excited for this tournament.  Especially my daughter's bracket.  It's gonna be so great.  I want to promote it and I'm thinking about getting some T-shirts made possible slogans
> "Super White is all right"
> "If you're not Super White you aint nothing"
> "Super White Power (Backside) ful feelings of joy"
> ...


What could go wrong for someone wearing those shirts, absolutely nothing.


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## oh canada (Jul 13, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> I think a large majority of us agree!


The clubs need to get together and tell Surf Cup that our olders families don't need another trophy or medal.  They just want good health for their kid and a couple games of good competition in front of a few college scouts.  They are happy to pay the same $75-$100 per player to play two games (Friday/Sunday or Saturday/Monday) instead of 5, especially those in SoCal who will sleep at home. 

Maybe they lose some out of state clubs, but I'm guessing most would still come for a couple good games and an extra couple days in sunny San Diego.

It's time for Surf Cup to start leading, and doing something that's fresh and right for a change.  Our kids' are too important.  If they make the change, others will follow.


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## sdb (Jul 13, 2021)

oh canada said:


> The clubs need to get together and tell Surf Cup that our olders families don't need another trophy or medal.  They just want good health for their kid and a couple games of good competition in front of a few college scouts.  They are happy to pay the same $75-$100 per player to play two games (Friday/Sunday or Saturday/Monday) instead of 5, especially those in SoCal who will sleep at home.
> 
> Maybe they lose some out of state clubs, but I'm guessing most would still come for a couple good games and an extra couple days in sunny San Diego.
> 
> It's time for Surf Cup to start leading, and doing something that's fresh and right for a change.  Our kids' are too important.  If they make the change, others will follow.


I know that not everyone agrees with this sentiment, but for those that are concerned about their player's health in this situation, how do you approach it with your coach and player? Do you say anything or place any limits? Or just do all you can to mitigate the load, foster recovery and hope for the best?


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## Messi>CR7 (Jul 13, 2021)

sdb said:


> I know that not everyone agrees with this sentiment, but for those that are concerned about their player's health in this situation, how do you approach it with your coach and player? Do you say anything or place any limits? Or just do all you can to mitigate the load, foster recovery and hope for the best?


The latter.  My kids will never go to the coach and ask to limit their minutes* IF* they are healthy.  I suspect that's the case for most (if not all) of the kids as well.


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## Technician72 (Jul 13, 2021)

Messi>CR7 said:


> The latter.  My kids will never go to the coach and ask to limit their minutes* IF* they are healthy.  I suspect that's the case for most (if not all) of the kids as well.


Do they not have that conversation because there isn't a forum for it or because they want to play the most amount of minutes possible?


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## Technician72 (Jul 13, 2021)

sdb said:


> I know that not everyone agrees with this sentiment, but for those that are concerned about their player's health in this situation, how do you approach it with your coach and player? Do you say anything or place any limits? Or just do all you can to mitigate the load, foster recovery and hope for the best?


It depends on the foundation set early on with the staff / club about several things. If you're lucky, a club / staff relays that information to players / families to set expectations going into a new team / season and there is a clear understanding of how time is managed against competitive play vs load management.

In almost every situation my players have been in this has not been clearly addressed ahead of time, and at best is discussed going into a tournament or weekend of.

My DD is very transparent with her coaches / teachers with the complicated web that is the life of a teenager and she gives advance notice and reminders to all about her schedule and stresses / highlights her recovery time with them. She does incorporate a prioritization on her own and will miss lower priorities to not over exert herself on a given day / week.

But in the case of games / tournaments where the format doesn't "allow" for that, she will make that determination beforehand based on "If she's healthy..." If she goes into the weekend feeling good she'll go with the flow and hope for the best, and at any point she feels the need to let the coach know something doesn't feel right, she will.

We have stressed to her to listen to her body and put her long term health ahead of the immediate moment. We have tried to convey the context that these games aren't a World Cup or High Level Championship. Does she want to compete? Absolutely, but some perspective is really valuable so they know the meaning of actually being in a "Jordan Flu Game" moment versus a 1st round group game at Surf Cup.


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## Technician72 (Jul 13, 2021)

I will openly admit that when the kids were in the "youngers" we took for granted that we were "fortunate" with no injuries, and did not emphasis load management as much. Lucky enough to course correct that before anything of significance happened but something we would have done differently.


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## Brav520 (Jul 13, 2021)

I know sometimes Im guilty of complaining that we never worried about load management back in the day. 

but 20-25 years ago you didn't play in tournaments nearly every weekend of the summer . There seems to be way more game nowadays at the higher levels. 

back in the day your summer consisted of state cup , regionals ( 1 team from SO Cal unless a state didn't have a rep), and nationals( 4 teams total across the US per age ) then Surf Cup. But if a team happened to make nationals they usually wouldn't even play in Surf Cup. 

I have a little one who is in 5 tournaments this summer( all local), I thought that was a lot , but then I see the same teams in tournaments every weekend 

seems a little out of control if you ask me.


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## futboldad1 (Jul 13, 2021)

Crazy that olders is not showcase stile with just three games…5 or even 4 in four days is insanity…… our team is 06 so jus turned u16 and her team is healthy but she has a good friend on a nearby u17 team who is playing best of the best and missing half their starting lineup through injury……scary scary scary……here’s praying all or daughters stay healthy but i do not like this format…….surf olders should be nothing more than a chance to be seen and a way to sharpen up ahead of ecnl league play imho…..


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## futboldad1 (Jul 13, 2021)

RedCard said:


> My DD's team is a flight 1 team and we got in. But it's true that it's mostly ECNL/RL teams at least in the 05 brackets. And the brackets/groups seem more even compared to the Man City Cup last month.


Yah brackets seem well chosen…..


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## lafalafa (Jul 13, 2021)

Enjoy the tour


futboldad1 said:


> Crazy that olders is not showcase stile with just three games…5 or even 4 in four days is insanity…… our team is 06 so jus turned u16 and her team is healthy but she has a good friend on a nearby u17 team who is playing best of the best and missing half their starting lineup through injury……scary scary scary……here’s praying all or daughters stay healthy but i do not like this format…….surf olders should be nothing more than a chance to be seen and a way to sharpen up ahead of ecnl league play imho…..


Plenty of participants complained about paying the big bucks for a 3 game showcase without "something" to play for.

Typically only the surf College "showcases"  had those formats.

Regular Surf cup is normally the 3 game min up to 6 max.  5 games is lot no doubt and larger rosters and guest players are one way that's addressed.

At least it's San Diego and the games are not in the Texas, Florida, NW, CO heat and humidity where there is/was close to 100 degree days and some events where 5-7days long if you made the knockout rounds.  Conditioning really comes info play and sometimes the teams with better fitness programs and large play pools do better.

Never really been a fan of consecutive days of games or double game days without proper rest and recover but it's the money $$$ machine that drives these tournaments to get in the most play in the short time frames.


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## oh canada (Jul 14, 2021)

This is where CalSouth or US Youth Soccer or one of the governing bodies needs to step in and make a rule...for example, for U14's and up, no playing consecutive days and no more than 3 games in a week.  DA had some type of rule restricting play and it was one of the few good rules they had.  

Not having a rule restricting soccer play is akin to Little League not restricting pitch counts.

I would love to hear from a parent who WANTS their 16 year old son or daughter playing 3 or 4 games in 3 days.  Please enlighten us why this is a good idea.  

Surf Cup representative?  Please help us parents understand why we are wrong about this issue?


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 14, 2021)

oh canada said:


> This is where CalSouth or US Youth Soccer or one of the governing bodies needs to step in and make a rule...for example, for U14's and up, no playing consecutive days and no more than 3 games in a week.  DA had some type of rule restricting play and it was one of the few good rules they had.
> 
> Not having a rule restricting soccer play is akin to Little League not restricting pitch counts.
> 
> ...


This was one thing the GDA got right, was game volume management.


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## espola (Jul 14, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> This was one thing the GDA got right, was game volume management.


When my son's team played at Gothia Cup in 2007, we had 5 games in 5 days (Sunday friendly against a local club at their grounds out in the countryside located between a brick factory and a horse farm, 3 pool games, and an elimination game draw and PK loss 8 AM Thursday).  If we had continued all the way, we would have had a second playdown game Thursday, then Friday and Saturday games.  The only injury we had was when one player ran into a door in the hotel.


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## outside! (Jul 14, 2021)

oh canada said:


> This is where CalSouth or US Youth Soccer or one of the governing bodies needs to step in and make a rule...for example, for U14's and up, no playing consecutive days and no more than 3 games in a week.


Do not expect USYS to make the health of the players more important than the member clubs making money.


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## whatithink (Jul 14, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Enjoy the tour
> 
> 
> Plenty of participants complained about paying the big bucks for a 3 game showcase without "something" to play for.
> ...


My kids have played quite a few Surf Cups, and coming from AZ, its always been no more than a pre-season event, with great competition, fantastic weather, and a new season gelling event. If they went deep, great, if not, so what. 

We entered, knowing the format, number of potential games and $tay to play rules. Complaints from people who know all that because it doesn't suit them gets a "meh" from me.

You're on the money with roster size / guest players. Basically, you entered, now plan accordingly. If you think you're a contender, then make sure your roster size will cope and know that your coach will rotate appropriately. If not, then you don't need to worry about 5-6 games, just enjoy SoCal in July.

From the rules - $urf are more than generous, so if you have a short roster and are concerned about 5-6 games, its on you.

ROSTERS: U15 (2009) – U19 (2003) age groups can roster up to 26 players but only 18 players may be in uniform and participate in each game. U13 (2009) – U14 (2008) age groups can roster up to 26 players but only 18 players may be in uniform and participate in each game. U11 and U12 (2010 and 2011) age groups can roster up to 16 players and play 16 players per game U8 – U10 (2012, 2013 and 2014) age groups can roster, and play up to 14 players per game. 

GUEST PLAYERS: Teams may use an unlimited amount of guest players as long as they are sanctioned under the same association as the rest of the team (USYS or US Club), but are still subject to the maximum roster size rules above. Meaning – guest players must have the same type of player card as the team they are guest playing for. If a team is using USYS player cards (from any state) then the guest player MUST have a USYS player card (and it can be from any state). If a team is using US Club player cards then the guest player must also have a US Club player card (US Club cards also include boys and/or girls ECNL player cards).


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Jul 14, 2021)

oh canada said:


> This is where CalSouth or US Youth Soccer or one of the governing bodies needs to step in and make a rule...for example, for U14's and up, no playing consecutive days and no more than 3 games in a week.  DA had some type of rule restricting play and it was one of the few good rules they had.
> 
> Not having a rule restricting soccer play is akin to Little League not restricting pitch counts.
> 
> ...


Instead of a governing body mandating what other kids can or can't do, how about those parents that do not want their kids playing that many games stay home?  I understand the role of rest and recovery, and the concern about overuse injuries but I don't understand taking away the option for those who want to do it.  

You are "wrong" because you want to impose your preferences on others.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 14, 2021)

ECNL was able to pull off a 5 games in 6 days event.  Not saying cutting the Tournament format for a Showcase format. Rather better to add days if they want to keep a tournament format which is in the best interest of the health of our kids


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## whatithink (Jul 14, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> ECNL was able to pull off a 5 games in 6 days event.  Not saying cutting the Tournament format for a Showcase format. Rather better to add days if they want to keep a tournament format which is in the best interest of the health of our kids


I think the whole "best interest of the health of our kids" line is very melodramatic. If you are doing it every weekend, then sure that's not healthy. But if you are doing it every weekend, then that's your choice, not the tournament providers choice. 

If you prefer the showcase format, then only enter showcases. There's loads of choice. You have a choice. You have the "power" to do it or not.

All this whining ...

And I can't believe I'm actually defending $urf. I'm must have entered the twilight zone and hadn't realized it


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 14, 2021)

whatithink said:


> I think the whole "best interest of the health of our kids" line is very melodramatic. If you are doing it every weekend, then sure that's not healthy. But if you are doing it every weekend, then that's your choice, not the tournament providers choice.
> 
> If you prefer the showcase format, then only enter showcases. There's loads of choice. You have a choice. You have the "power" to do it or not.
> 
> ...


It was for effect for sure….not really whining as much as suggesting that there are formats that are done tournament style without having to play 2 games in a single day, after playing 3 days in a row.

We are 100% accountable for our own actions and teams such as ours will navigate the conditions just like everyone else.


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## Emma (Jul 14, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> It was for effect for sure….not really whining as much as suggesting that there are formats that are done tournament style without having to play 2 games in a single day, after playing 3 days in a row.
> 
> We are 100% accountable for our own actions and teams such as ours will navigate the conditions just like everyone else.


How long are the Surf tournament games?  I thought they shortened them to prevent injuries because they have multiple games.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 14, 2021)

Emma said:


> How long are the Surf tournament games?  I thought they shortened them to prevent injuries because they have multiple games.


I’m actually not sure.


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## Technician72 (Jul 14, 2021)

Emma said:


> How long are the Surf tournament games?  I thought they shortened them to prevent injuries because they have multiple games.


07s through 03 / 04s = 40 minute halves (prelims) and 35 minute halves (semifinals / final)

*Rules*


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## lafalafa (Jul 14, 2021)

Emma said:


> How long are the Surf tournament games?  I thought they shortened them to prevent injuries because they have multiple games.


For normal tournaments game are shortened a bit to get more in overall.

The single game a day,  only 2 consecutive, one day rest in between is what could be followed but it would cost a lot more.  MLS-NEXT attempted this format, so 5 games over 7 days.  

For normal tournaments that is not really feasible due to the economics.

One season my son's team had 6 straight tourneys over a 5 month span@ 4-5 games per.  Add in spring season + high school and was a ridiculous amount of games but his/their choices.  Some suffering went down but few actual injuries, fatigue yes but I don't think he would trade those experiences to rest or prevent anything.


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## Emma (Jul 15, 2021)

Technician72 said:


> 07s through 03 / 04s = 40 minute halves (prelims) and 35 minute halves (semifinals / final)
> 
> *Rules*


I thought it was truncated more.  Semi and Finals should only be 30 minute halves since winners have to move on to finals in the same day.  It would be nice to see the best teams win not the one with the deeper benches and hogging all the talented players to sit on their bench.  We should encourage this in order to develop youth players on the field rather than have them spend time on the bench.  The talented players should go out to other teams and stop sitting on long benches. Short benches are fine.


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