# ECNL Records



## youthsportsuggghhhhgghh (Mar 20, 2022)

Just looking at the ECNL records for the Northwest Division  (Bay Area) and the records listed don't seem to be the same as the games listed. The wins/losses/draws are not what is listed in the games played.
Thoughts?


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## LVB (Mar 20, 2022)

Great point bruh! LV. Surf Select 2010 G have more ecnl wins than half the actual 09 teams in the nation after this weekend. Keep paying uo on that ecnl cost morons.


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## myself (Mar 21, 2022)

youthsportsuggghhhhgghh said:


> Just looking at the ECNL records for the Northwest Division  (Bay Area) and the records listed don't seem to be the same as the games listed. The wins/losses/draws are not what is listed in the games played.
> Thoughts?


In the team schedule view the overall record includes showcase games, but the showcase games aren't shown, only conference games.


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## dad4 (Mar 21, 2022)

LVB said:


> Great point bruh! LV. Surf Select 2010 G have more ecnl wins than half the actual 09 teams in the nation after this weekend. Keep paying uo on that ecnl cost morons.


Agree the system is stupid, but I don’t quite see the point in blaming the parents.


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## youthsportsuggghhhhgghh (Mar 21, 2022)

myself said:


> In the team schedule view the overall record includes showcase games, but the showcase games aren't shown, only conference games.


Interesting in that when you open some teams they show showcase games and in others they don't. For us they showed the showcase games, but the wins and losses total didn't add up.


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## myself (Mar 21, 2022)

dad4 said:


> Agree the system is stupid, but I don’t quite see the point in blaming the parents.


This all depends on what you see the point of ECNL being. ECNL will tell you that they put the best teams/players together with the goal of showcasing the players for college scouts.

My kid has been with an ECNL team since the first year they introduced U13 (7th graders), which is/was purely a cash grab. It may have made sense under the old way of doing things when schools were (foolishly) verbally committing 8th graders. Nowadays they can't even talk to kids until after 10th grade (U16), so the college angle is null and void. The benefit would be playing against good competition, and more importantly, "securing your spot" for the older ages, since it can be harder to crack an established team's lineup at the older ages. But is it worth all the money and time to do so? That's for each family to decide.

As far as this comment goes



> LV. Surf Select 2010 G have more ecnl wins than half the actual 09 teams in the nation after this weekend.


So you're talking about U12s? Allow me to share some wisdom that I've learned here from the forums and am witnessing in real time myself; BEING A GOOD U12 PLAYER HAS LITTLE TO NO CORRELATION WITH BEING A GOOD U16 PLAYER. Take a look at your team. In 4 years only two or three players from your team will be impact players. 50% will have moved on to lower quality teams or quit the game all together. So sure, enjoy your U-little victories now, but THEY DON'T MEAN JACK.


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## LVB (Mar 21, 2022)

myself said:


> This all depends on what you see the point of ECNL being. ECNL will tell you that they put the best teams/players together with the goal of showcasing the players for college scouts.
> 
> My kid has been with an ECNL team since the first year they introduced U13 (7th graders), which is/was purely a cash grab. It may have made sense under the old way of doing things when schools were (foolishly) verbally committing 8th graders. Nowadays they can't even talk to kids until after 10th grade (U16), so the college angle is null and void. The benefit would be playing against good competition, and more importantly, "securing your spot" for the older ages, since it can be harder to crack an established team's lineup at the older ages. But is it worth all the money and time to do so? That's for each family to decide.
> 
> ...


Dayumm!!!! Lol. I mean you said it, Complete cash grab at the younger ages. and people are paying to secure Jonny’s roster spot later! So that means a kid that wasn’t good enough when they were 12 to make a ecnl squad but has developed into a a ecnl quality player by the time they are 16 cant play on an ecnl team because they didn’t pay ecnl fees for the previous 4 years! That’s the way I take that. Here's my take on it. It’s very unfortunate club driven leagues like ECNL do not allow for fair competition between teams of the same level at the younger ages. I really wish ECNL would have a relegation process allowing smaller clubs that are ranked high to join the RL league. I would be all for supporting that. Winners from each RL league would move up to ecnl and last place from ecnl move down to RL if that makes sense. Will never happen. They just know the bigger clubs will poach the good up and coming players and ecnl will eventually get them all. That's what I dislike so much about ECNL for the youngers. They do not have the best teams. Seems like top 3 in each conference are good top elite teams but the rest below them are RL/Discovery level teams. Of course the comp level will be better as they get older as kids are basically forced to move to an ecnl club if that’s the college path they decide to take. I’m certainty not saying our kids won’t ever go to ecnl and even would now if it was a perfect scenario. My kids like to have fun and compete and win. If they were on an ecnl team right now getting blasted every game they would be done and quit. I want to keep them having fun and and follow the coaching and when they are older and can actually tell me what ecnl stands for then we will start a discussion. And if they get shut out because we haven’t been paying ecnl fees leading up to it so be it. Have a great week.


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## dad4 (Mar 21, 2022)

myself said:


> So you're talking about U12s? Allow me to share some wisdom that I've learned here from the forums and am witnessing in real time myself; BEING A GOOD U12 PLAYER HAS LITTLE TO NO CORRELATION WITH BEING A GOOD U16 PLAYER. Take a look at your team. In 4 years only two or three players from your team will be impact players. 50% will have moved on to lower quality teams or quit the game all together. So sure, enjoy your U-little victories now, but THEY DON'T MEAN JACK.


Uh, we're talking girls soccer here.  None of the victories mean jack.  

Thanks for the wisdom, though.


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## myself (Mar 21, 2022)

LVB said:


> Dayumm!!!! Lol. I mean you said it, Complete cash grab at the younger ages. and people are paying to secure Jonny’s roster spot later! So that means a kid that wasn’t good enough when they were 12 to make a ecnl squad but has developed into a a ecnl quality player by the time they are 16 cant play on an ecnl team because they didn’t pay ecnl fees for the previous 4 years! That’s the way I take that. Here's my take on it. It’s very unfortunate club driven leagues like ECNL do not allow for fair competition between teams of the same level at the younger ages. I really wish ECNL would have a relegation process allowing smaller clubs that are ranked high to join the RL league. I would be all for supporting that. Winners from each RL league would move up to ecnl and last place from ecnl move down to RL if that makes sense. Will never happen. They just know the bigger clubs will poach the good up and coming players and ecnl will eventually get them all. That's what I dislike so much about ECNL for the youngers. They do not have the best teams. Seems like top 3 in each conference are good top elite teams but the rest below them are RL/Discovery level teams. Of course the comp level will be better as they get older as kids are basically forced to move to an ecnl club if that’s the college path they decide to take. I’m certainty not saying our kids won’t ever go to ecnl and even would now if it was a perfect scenario. My kids like to have fun and compete and win. If they were on an ecnl team right now getting blasted every game they would be done and quit. I want to keep them having fun and and follow the coaching and when they are older and can actually tell me what ecnl stands for then we will start a discussion. And if they get shut out because we haven’t been paying ecnl fees leading up to it so be it. Have a great week.


I think it's less about "not paying fees" and more about not wanting to rock the boat and cutting a known entity for a player that is at the same level or not that much better. Seen it with my own eyes. Coaches tend to find room for someone who is obviously better than their current option. 


dad4 said:


> Uh, we're talking girls soccer here.  None of the victories mean jack.
> 
> Thanks for the wisdom, though.


Wasn't directed to you, but you're welcome. 

I'd argue that wins for olders do matter because, at least in ecnl, the better your team does, the better showcase matches you get, and a higher number of scouts attend those games, aka "exposure". Apart from that, I agree with you.


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## VegasParent (Mar 21, 2022)

myself said:


> I think it's less about "not paying fees" and more about not wanting to rock the boat and* cutting a known entity for a player that is at the same level or not that much better*. Seen it with my own eyes. Coaches tend to find room for someone who is obviously better than their current option.


This is the key. If the playing coming in is clearly better, teams will make a spot. But many will be loyal to a current player if the talent level is close to being the same unless the player and/or the parents are an issue.


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## timmyh (Mar 21, 2022)

myself said:


> BEING A GOOD U12 PLAYER HAS LITTLE TO NO CORRELATION WITH BEING A GOOD U16 PLAYER. Take a look at your team. In 4 years only two or three players from your team will be impact players. 50% will have moved on to lower quality teams or quit the game all together. So sure, enjoy your U-little victories now, but THEY DON'T MEAN JACK.


U-Little Victories indeed don't mean jack.

However, the best predictor - by far - of who will be a good soccer player at age 16 is to see who the best players are at age 12. To say those things aren't correlated is just entirely incorrect.

That certainly does NOT mean that every strong U12 will become a star at U16. But the truth is that it is pretty rare to find a star U16 player on a top level team that wasn't also at least a pretty good player at U12.


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## Goforgoal (Mar 21, 2022)

timmyh said:


> U-Little Victories indeed don't mean jack.
> 
> However, the best predictor - by far - of who will be a good soccer player at age 16 is to see who the best players are at age 12. To say those things aren't correlated is just entirely incorrect.
> 
> That certainly does NOT mean that every strong U12 will become a star at U16. But the truth is that it is pretty rare to find a star U16 player on a top level team that wasn't also at least a pretty good player at U12.


Can't disagree with this. There are always exceptions in both directions but what you say is more the base case.


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## kickingandscreaming (Mar 21, 2022)

youthsportsuggghhhhgghh said:


> Just looking at the ECNL records for the Northwest Division  (Bay Area) and the records listed don't seem to be the same as the games listed. The wins/losses/draws are not what is listed in the games played.
> Thoughts?


It's interesting how they "count" games. For playoff qualifications, only conference games count. Conferences that multiple divisions use all games within the conference, not just a team's division. Showcases are not used for playoff qualification. However, once they determine the teams that qualify, they use all games including showcases for seeding.


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## Carlsbad7 (Mar 21, 2022)

kickingandscreaming said:


> It's interesting how they "count" games. For playoff qualifications, only conference games count. Conferences that multiple divisions use all games within the conference, not just a team's division. Showcases are not used for playoff qualification. However, once they determine the teams that qualify, they use all games including showcases for seeding.


Welcome to the the wonderful world of chasing trophies + the people that know that you're chasing trophies + are keeping them just out of reach.


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## youthsportsuggghhhhgghh (Mar 22, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Welcome to the the wonderful world of chasing trophies + the people that know that you're chasing trophies + are keeping them just out of reach.


I am a data person and not a trophies person -- what is showing is inconsistent from team to team and within the teams themselves. I couldn't care less about the records themselves other than curiosity, but get the data consistent.


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## kickingandscreaming (Mar 22, 2022)

youthsportsuggghhhhgghh said:


> I am a data person and not a trophies person -- what is showing is inconsistent from team to team and within the teams themselves. I couldn't care less about the records themselves other than curiosity, but get the data consistent.


I agree that it is presented in a confusing fashion in the Champions League Standings - certainly inconsistent with how the teams were seeded last year. Last year in U17 the 32 teams that qualified for the Champions League playoffs were correctly identified in those standings. However, the order they were shown (purely in points per game in conference games only) was not the actual the seeding. The actual seeding wasn't arbitrary, they just didn't show enough information to get to the final seeding.


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## Carlsbad7 (Mar 22, 2022)

youthsportsuggghhhhgghh said:


> I am a data person and not a trophies person -- what is showing is inconsistent from team to team and within the teams themselves. I couldn't care less about the records themselves other than curiosity, but get the data consistent.


I get it + agree with you reguarding numbers. The problem/issue with soccer is that there's no consistency in how winners/losers are defined. 

People that that have control over XYZ exploit this to define winners and losers.


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