# SAT/ACT



## Dubs (Apr 21, 2020)

Anybody have any idea how the "getting rid of SAT/ACT" requirements will effect 2020s and 2021 commits?  Will 2021s be able to just submit their application with their HS transcript and that's it?  Appreciate any info if folks out there have knowledge.


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## Ellejustus (Apr 21, 2020)

Dubs said:


> Will 2021s be able to just submit their application with their HS transcript and that's it?  Appreciate any info if folks out there have knowledge.


That's it bro from what I'm hearing from my inside HS connection.  Online classes are way easier for my dd too.  4.0 now dude.  Group study together on zoom as well.  I hear Math might be changed for those who will never need it.  Answer 2+2=4 and a few other important things on how to save for a virus and prepare for the worst


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## Fact (Apr 21, 2020)

Dubs said:


> Anybody have any idea how the "getting rid of SAT/ACT" requirements will effect 2020s and 2021 commits?  Will 2021s be able to just submit their application with their HS transcript and that's it?  Appreciate any info if folks out there have knowledge.


Different schools are going to handle it differently so I would speak directly to the coach.  Not sure how some schools would calculate $ without test scores.
Also if for some reason the commitment falls thru having test scores give you more options. I know most colleges have said that not having test scores won’t hurt you, but if you can score well it will definitely help you and as Ella just acknowledged online classes are easier so there will be less differentiation without test scores.  So I guess I am saying take it if you can do well so that you keep all your options.  You never know if your kiddo will decide to go to a school closer to home after all of this. Good luck.


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## Keepermom (Apr 22, 2020)

NCAA is still requiring the SAT/ACT. So even if your school doesnt require it for admissions, it's still required for NCAA eligibility.


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## Dubs (Apr 22, 2020)

Keepermom said:


> NCAA is still requiring the SAT/ACT. So even if your school doesnt require it for admissions, it's still required for NCAA eligibility.


I'm sure the NCAA will have to back off of this if testing isn't possible within the application timeframe.  The schools and NCAA need to be in concert.


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## MacDre (Apr 22, 2020)

Dubs said:


> Anybody have any idea how the "getting rid of SAT/ACT" requirements will effect 2020s and 2021 commits?  Will 2021s be able to just submit their application with their HS transcript and that's it?  Appreciate any info if folks out there have knowledge.


Yes.  I think the lack of SAT/ACT will hurt students that were borderline or have low GPA’s.  For this group, a good test score could have markedly improved their application profile and chances of admissions to top schools.


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## Dubs (Apr 22, 2020)

Fact said:


> Different schools are going to handle it differently so I would speak directly to the coach.  Not sure how some schools would calculate $ without test scores.
> Also if for some reason the commitment falls thru having test scores give you more options. I know most colleges have said that not having test scores won’t hurt you, but if you can score well it will definitely help you and as Ella just acknowledged online classes are easier so there will be less differentiation without test scores.  So I guess I am saying take it if you can do well so that you keep all your options.  You never know if your kiddo will decide to go to a school closer to home after all of this. Good luck.


My DD is already committed, so you're correct.  This will need to be a discussion with her coaches.  It is a UC, so all the UCs are on same page, in terms of not requiring it.  I'm pretty most schools will follow suit.


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## Dubs (Apr 22, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Yes.  I think the lack of SAT/ACT will hurt students that were borderline or have low GPA’s.  For this group, a good test score could have markedly improved their application profile and chances of admissions to top schools.


Agreed, but my question is more selfish, in terms of the committed player.  Does this make things easier for them as far as satisfying the requirements for a recruit?


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## Dubs (Apr 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> That's it bro from what I'm hearing from my inside HS connection.  Online classes are way easier for my dd too.  4.0 now dude.  Group study together on zoom as well.  I hear Math might be changed for those who will never need it.  Answer 2+2=4 and a few other important things on how to save for a virus and prepare for the worst


It's crazy because our school district just adopted Credit/No Credit for the Spring semester.  No grades.  Get a 69% or above and you get Credit.  Unprecedented times!


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## MacDre (Apr 22, 2020)

Dubs said:


> Agreed, but my question is more selfish, in terms of the committed player.  Does this make things easier for them as far as satisfying the requirements for a recruit?


I think it depends on the school.  I would say no for HYS; in fact, the above analysis applies.  I would say yes for SDSU, FSU, and Penn State or similar schools.


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## dad4 (Apr 22, 2020)

There is some value to knowing your SAT/ACT just to pick a school that’s a good match.  Harvard might accept a kid with a 1150 SAT for their hockey team, but that doesn’t mean they know how to educate him.

You want to be more in the middle.  

(Even if testing locations are shut, you can find out your rough SAT just by buying an old test and administering it at home. )


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## MacDre (Apr 22, 2020)

dad4 said:


> There is some value to knowing your SAT/ACT just to pick a school that’s a good match.  Harvard might accept a kid with a 1150 SAT for their hockey team, but that doesn’t mean they know how to educate him.
> 
> You want to be more in the middle.
> 
> (Even if testing locations are shut, you can find out your rough SAT just by buying an old test and administering it at home. )


Great point.  I’ll add that folks should really pay attention to the school culture.  For example, I think the UC system is competitive and cutthroat and has a sink or swim culture.  I think Stanford and USC have a more collaborative and supportive culture; I have very smart friends from both of these schools that wouldn’t have done well in the UC system because they perceive it as a toxic environment.


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## Dubs (Apr 22, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Great point.  I’ll add that folks should really pay attention to the school culture.  For example, I think the UC system is competitive and cutthroat and has a sink or swim culture.  I think Stanford and USC have a more collaborative and supportive culture; I have very smart friends from both of these schools that wouldn’t have done well in the UC system because they perceive it as a toxic environment.


That's probably true.  However, we're talking about student athletes here.  Their experience is going to be entirely different from the normal student population.


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## dad4 (Apr 22, 2020)

Dubs said:


> That's probably true.  However, we're talking about student athletes here.  Their experience is going to be entirely different from the normal student population.


Might help you in Am. Stud, but I dont think anyone changes Organic Chemistry to help out the athletes.


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## Dubs (Apr 22, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Might help you in Am. Stud, but I dont think anyone changes Organic Chemistry to help out the athletes.


Don't take my response out of context.  Whether you are an Organic Chem major or Finance major, your overall college experience is going to be differnent and offer advantages/disadvantages if you're a student athelete.  Does it take away from the rigor and difficulty...?  No, but the experience as a whole will be totally different.  In many cases, it will be more difficult for the student athelete because of schedule demands.  Just making the point.


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## NorCal (Apr 22, 2020)

I’m a HS Counselor, PM me if you have any specific academic/testing/ncaa eligibility questions you have for your kiddos. I’d be more than happy to help.


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## gotothebushes (Apr 22, 2020)

NorCal said:


> I’m a HS Counselor, PM me if you have any specific academic/testing/ncaa eligibility questions you have for your kiddos. I’d be more than happy to help.


That's very nice of you to help these students and parents.


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## Dubs (Apr 22, 2020)

NorCal said:


> I’m a HS Counselor, PM me if you have any specific academic/testing/ncaa eligibility questions you have for your kiddos. I’d be more than happy to help.


Do you know if there are discussions happening between the California systems (CSU and UC) with the NCAA regarding eligibility in light of the pandemic?  What are you telling your college bound student athletes?


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## MacDre (Apr 22, 2020)

Dubs said:


> That's probably true.  However, we're talking about student athletes here.  Their experience is going to be entirely different from the normal student population.


The fact that you’re an athlete doesn’t negate the culture and expectations at certain schools.  I’m personally aware of several athletes that felt unsupported academically at major universities.  If your goal is to just go to college to enter the draft, I agree with you.  However, if your goal is to graduate with a degree it’s essential to factor the academic culture of the school and how your kid learns best.


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## Dubs (Apr 22, 2020)

MacDre said:


> The fact that you’re an athlete doesn’t negate the culture and expectations at certain schools.  I’m personally aware of several athletes that felt unsupported academically at major universities.  If your goal is to just go to college to enter the draft, I agree with you.  However, if your goal is to graduate with a degree it’s essential to factor the academic culture of the school and how your kid learns best.


No doubt.


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## NorCal (Apr 22, 2020)

Dubs said:


> Do you know if there are discussions happening between the California systems (CSU and UC) with the NCAA regarding eligibility in light of the pandemic?  What are you telling your college bound student athletes?



The NCAA has modified their initial eligibility requirement for the class of 2020 (seniors), instead of 16 core courses, then only need 10 courses and no SAT/ACT score.

For the class of 2021+
The SAT has cancelled the June test so we are in a wait and see period. I have told my students to keep grinding, stay plugged in to their distance learning opportunities and keep using the SAT/ACT practice tools. I take the calm approach to situations, kids are stressed enough.


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## NorCal (Apr 22, 2020)

From the CSU System regarding class of 2020:

The entire California State University system is taking all the necessary steps to mitigate the disruptions caused by COVID-19 while ensuring the health and safety for our students, faculty, staff and communities.

Please be assured that all CSU campuses are prepared to be as flexible as possible when working with fall 2020 applicants on meeting admission requirements and selection. This flexibility will vary by campus and potentially by major applied due to impaction. Although there has been disruption, as campuses transition to some or all staff working remotely, processing of applications and communications is still taking place. We would encourage fall 2020 applicants to continue to check their email and campus portals regularly.


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## Dubs (Apr 22, 2020)

NorCal said:


> The NCAA has modified their initial eligibility requirement for the class of 2020 (seniors), instead of 16 core courses, then only need 10 courses and no SAT/ACT score.
> 
> For the class of 2021+
> The SAT has cancelled the June test so we are in a wait and see period. I have told my students to keep grinding, stay plugged in to their distance learning opportunities and keep using the SAT/ACT practice tools. I take the calm approach to situations, kids are stressed enough.


Thanks for that.  I'm wondering if November early signing is going to be possible with all this.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


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## NorCal (Apr 25, 2020)

The SAT has added a new test date due to the cancellation of the spring test.

Saturday September 26 (Reasoning only, NO Subject Test) .


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## Dubs (Apr 27, 2020)

NorCal said:


> The SAT has added a new test date due to the cancellation of the spring test.
> 
> Saturday September 26 (Reasoning only, NO Subject Test) .


If DD wants to sign in November, when do they go ahead and apply?  If it's in Aug, then it's probably a situation where she submits without taking the test.  Any idea?


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## NorCal (Apr 27, 2020)

Dubs said:


> If DD wants to sign in November, when do they go ahead and apply?  If it's in Aug, then it's probably a situation where she submits without taking the test.  Any idea?


A student can apply to college without a SAT/ACT score in hand. The CSU and UC system have a application deadline of November 30th every year. They all will accept the December SAT/ACT test. You will just need to let them know (on the application) that you are taking that test, then send your scores to the school(s) when they come in. That way the college(s) will know another piece of information is still coming.

in general - I guide all my juniors to take the spring/summer test. Go over your results in the summer, work on your weaknesses then retake in the fall. And retake on December if necessary. For the high achievers (advanced math courses, etc) can take the tests sophomore year. PSAT (practice) is given to all sophomores and juniors at my school.
Hope this helps


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## NorCal (Apr 27, 2020)

Signing a LOI binds you to team. You will still need to apply to the college (the coach usually lets admission know you are a LOI student-athlete, in case they need to make some concessions with your entrance requirements....a lot of my college teammates wouldn’t have been accepted if they were just students).


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## espola (Apr 28, 2020)

NorCal said:


> Signing a LOI binds you to team. You will still need to apply to the college (the coach usually lets admission know you are a LOI student-athlete, in case they need to make some concessions with your entrance requirements....a lot of my college teammates wouldn’t have been accepted if they were just students).


"Binds" in a loose sense.  The school is obligated to provide the financial aid agreed upon (or better), and all other NCAA schools must stop recruiting efforts aimed at the student, but the student can back up all the way until the first day of classes, and the school may retract the offer if the student is found to be ineligible for admission.


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## Dubs (Apr 28, 2020)

NorCal said:


> Signing a LOI binds you to team. You will still need to apply to the college (the coach usually lets admission know you are a LOI student-athlete, in case they need to make some concessions with your entrance requirements....a lot of my college teammates wouldn’t have been accepted if they were just students).


The application process starts in Sept. and signing happens in November.  As it stands, she was set to take SAT in June, which has been cancelled.  Earliest she can take it now is in Sept., so that puts us in the situation you mention above.  However, we were told SAT for her school is optional and the school will put all emphasis on transcript and essay if we submit without SAT.  All the more reason to have gotten good grades all the way through.  With this timeline she can early sign in November.


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## NorCal (Apr 28, 2020)

Dubs said:


> The application process starts in Sept. and signing happens in November.  As it stands, she was set to take SAT in June, which has been cancelled.  Earliest she can take it now is in Sept., so that puts us in the situation you mention above.  However, we were told SAT for her school is optional and the school will put all emphasis on transcript and essay if we submit without SAT.  All the more reason to have gotten good grades all the way through.  With this timeline she can early sign in November.


what school will she be attending (I understand if you don’t fee comfortable saying) - I’m assuming Private or out-of-state if the application opens up in September. The CSU application window is Oct-Nov and the UC is the month of November (you can view the application and wringing prompts in October but can’t submit until Nov).

as of now, still need the SAT/ACT for ncaa eligibility but you can take that anytime in the winter/spring.

for the parents of underclassmen, make sure that 4 year plan is solid. Need to have 16 ncaa core courses plus the specific college entrance requirements (A-G for CSU/UC) done. As well as the testing. If you have any specific questions send me a DM, I can look up your schools NCAA core course list and let you know if your on track.


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## Dubs (Apr 28, 2020)

NorCal said:


> what school will she be attending (I understand if you don’t fee comfortable saying) - I’m assuming Private or out-of-state if the application opens up in September. The CSU application window is Oct-Nov and the UC is the month of November (you can view the application and wringing prompts in October but can’t submit until Nov).
> 
> as of now, still need the SAT/ACT for ncaa eligibility but you can take that anytime in the winter/spring.
> 
> for the parents of underclassmen, make sure that 4 year plan is solid. Need to have 16 ncaa core courses plus the specific college entrance requirements (A-G for CSU/UC) done. As well as the testing. If you have any specific questions send me a DM, I can look up your schools NCAA core course list and let you know if your on track.


Prefer not to say, but it is a UC.  Sept is what i've been told by the coach, so maybe they moved up the application process?


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## NorCal (Apr 28, 2020)

Dubs said:


> Prefer not to say, but it is a UC.  Sept is what i've been told by the coach, so maybe they moved up the application process?


UC’s are always in November but you can access it earlier. Either way she can have it done by signing period. Congrats! She’ll walk a way with a great education.


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## vegasguy (Apr 28, 2020)

What about ACT.  Is June still on for testing dates?


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## Copa9 (Apr 28, 2020)

NorCal said:


> The NCAA has modified their initial eligibility requirement for the class of 2020 (seniors), instead of 16 core courses, then only need 10 courses and no SAT/ACT score.
> 
> For the class of 2021+
> The SAT has cancelled the June test so we are in a wait and see period. I have told my students to keep grinding, stay plugged in to their distance learning opportunities and keep using the SAT/ACT practice tools. I take the calm approach to situations, kids are stressed enough.


Interesting, haven't most of the 2020 class already applied to college by April of 2020 for fall admissions?


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## WildcatToad (Apr 28, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Interesting, haven't most of the 2020 class already applied to college by April of 2020 for fall admissions?


I can only guess that some applicants are still trying to earn a qualifying SAT/ACT score to be admitted.


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## NorCal (Apr 28, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Interesting, haven't most of the 2020 class already applied to college by April of 2020 for fall admissions?


Yes. All general students in the class of 2020 have already applied (during fall 2019) and most have received they acceptance letters. The last step is to submit your final transcript. Unfortunately, I’ve seen several students who were accepted, slacked off (senioritus) in the spring and gotten a letter over the summer basically saying sorry, you were accepted on the condition that you were going to continue your trend of “success”.

it’s the same with the NCAA; you can sign a LOI in the fall...but it’s not really official until you meet the entire initial eligibility requirement for that NCAA or NAIA division. So basically the NCAA is saying, for the class of 2020, we will waive the SAT/ACT portion of the requirement and scale back the # of core courses you need...because the nation is not unified in how they are teaching right now. Online school, distance learning, Pass/Fail, etc...

The real question, is how is this going to effect the 2021, 2022 & 2023 classes.


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## NorCal (Apr 28, 2020)

vegasguy said:


> What about ACT.  Is June still on for testing dates?


As of now, yes. The ACT is still planning on administering the test on June 13th. Those of you that signed up for the April test, they should have notified you and pushed your fees over to the June one. 

I highly doubt this will happen though. I couldn’t imagine a facility that could accommodate the ACT test with all the safety measures of social distancing etc. 

Keep those kids working though. There are a ton of online resources and practice tests for them to study with.


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## NorCal (Apr 28, 2020)

NorCal said:


> As of now, yes. The ACT is still planning on administering the test on June 13th. Those of you that signed up for the April test, they should have notified you and pushed your fees over to the June one.
> 
> I highly doubt this will happen though. I couldn’t imagine a facility that could accommodate the ACT test with all the safety measures of social distancing etc.
> 
> Keep those kids working though. There are a ton of online resources and practice tests for them to study with.


Last day to register for the June 13th ACT test (w/o late fee) is May 8th.


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## NorCal (May 12, 2020)

CSU (all 23 campuses) announced that they will go online for the Fall Semester.

The CCAA (D2) conference has suspended all competition for the Fall season.


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## Dubs (May 13, 2020)

NorCal said:


> CSU (all 23 campuses) announced that they will go online for the Fall Semester.
> 
> The CCAA (D2) conference has suspended all competition for the Fall season.


So much money involved for D1 sports.. Especially for the Power 5 conference schools.  I'm sure they'll hold out as long as possible before making the same determination.


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## vegasguy (May 15, 2020)

NorCal said:


> I highly doubt this will happen though. I couldn’t imagine a facility that could accommodate the ACT test with all the safety measures of social distancing etc.


We registered for the June 13th date.   so far no issue.


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## Dubs (May 15, 2020)

vegasguy said:


> We registered for the June 13th date.   so far no issue.


For ACT or SAT?  June SAT cancelled.


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## NorCal (May 15, 2020)

The ACT is still on.....but I highly doubt this test will be administered. I would assume they would wait for everyone to have access to this test since some parts of the country are still on lock down. 

We are having a Virtual Graduation right now for our seniors; it’s over 6 days and students are put into time slots (very small groups), kept at a acceptable social distance, allowed 2 guests, walk the stage, get their name called out, have several photo opportunities set up, big screen with teachers on zoom congratulating them, etc.


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## Dubs (May 15, 2020)

NorCal said:


> The ACT is still on.....but I highly doubt this test will be administered. I would assume they would wait for everyone to have access to this test since some parts of the country are still on lock down.
> 
> We are having a Virtual Graduation right now for our seniors; it’s over 6 days and students are put into time slots (very small groups), kept at a acceptable social distance, allowed 2 guests, walk the stage, get their name called out, have several photo opportunities set up, big screen with teachers on zoom congratulating them, etc.


Well that's a little good news.  I feel so bad for 2020 grads.


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## NorCal (May 15, 2020)

We usually go real big for our graduations (class size usually just under 500)....large stage in the middle of our school makes a great setting, 2 large jumbo-from screens so everyone can see, large catwalk so the kids get their 30 seconds of glory and an occasional surprise or two.





Surprise Guest

For this year, we are just trying our best to give the class of 2020 something.


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## oh canada (May 22, 2020)

U of C system eliminating the ACT/SAT sounds like an equitable effort, but this is another bad decision by the PC obsessed Board of Trustees.  Yes, the standardized tests have their biases, but the bottom line is that they are reliably predictive of preparedness and success in college (that is different than success or capability in one's job/career, of course).

Everyone in education knows high school grade inflation is proliferating, especially at the higher income schools where parents complain and threaten at the whiff of a C+ (just as they do at their local soccer club).  So, GPA is far from a reliable predictor.  Nor are essays, which are often written/edited by parents or Rick Singer-like services.

U/C says it will develop its own test, but that will never happen.  There would be hundreds of meetings and opinions about each and every question put on the test.  The solution is to use the ACT as one data point and evaluate it acknowledging that biases do exist for certain application segments.









						University of California eliminates SAT/ACT requirement
					

The vote comes after decades of opposition to standardized testing from civil rights groups and education experts.




					www.politico.com


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## Ellejustus (May 22, 2020)

oh canada said:


> U of C system eliminating the ACT/SAT sounds like an equitable effort, but this is another bad decision by the PC obsessed Board of Trustees.  Yes, the standardized tests have their biases, but the bottom line is that they are reliably predictive of preparedness and success in college (that is different than success or capability in one's job/career, of course).
> 
> Everyone in education knows high school grade inflation is proliferating, especially at the higher income schools where parents complain and threaten at the whiff of a C+ (just as they do at their local soccer club).  So, GPA is far from a reliable predictor.  Nor are essays, which are often written/edited by parents or Rick Singer-like services.
> 
> ...


Hallelujah!!!!  My dd has a 4.0 now too!!!  This semester only


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## outside! (May 22, 2020)

oh canada said:


> Everyone in education knows high school grade inflation is proliferating, especially at the higher income schools where parents complain and threaten at the whiff of a C+ (just as they do at their local soccer club).  So, GPA is far from a reliable predictor.  Nor are essays, which are often written/edited by parents or Rick Singer-like services.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agree. Grade inflation is happening in college also.


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## Copa9 (May 22, 2020)

oh canada said:


> U of C system eliminating the ACT/SAT sounds like an equitable effort, but this is another bad decision by the PC obsessed Board of Trustees.  Yes, the standardized tests have their biases, but the bottom line is that they are reliably predictive of preparedness and success in college (that is different than success or capability in one's job/career, of course).
> 
> Everyone in education knows high school grade inflation is proliferating, especially at the higher income schools where parents complain and threaten at the whiff of a C+ (just as they do at their local soccer club).  So, GPA is far from a reliable predictor.  Nor are essays, which are often written/edited by parents or Rick Singer-like services.
> 
> ...


Maybe a better way to evaluate a student's preparedness for college would be based on the workload of the student.  Straight A's in easy classes or B's and A's in AP classes and honors classes. Look at the student's AP scores. Even if some schools inflate grades you can't inflate AP test scores.  I over heard a friend of my player who attends a well known private school in our area say that their teacher in ____ class would let them retake their tests in the class until they got an A. Just one example how inflated grades work. ACT/SAT tests are a snapshot of one morning in a student's school career and can be influenced by many factors. AP tests cover in depth course content.


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## outside! (May 22, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> ACT/SAT tests are a snapshot of one morning in a student's school career and can be influenced by many factors. AP tests cover in depth course content.


My son recently took the AP history test. He said t was not a history test. It was a test to see who can read quickly, type quickly and write an acceptable paper. It did not test any knowledge of history at all.


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## oh canada (May 22, 2020)

The politically-minded Board of Regents also overruled the faculty committee's recommendation to at least keep the ACT/SAT in place till the new UC test is complete.  But no, can't do that either, and let's not listen to the professors.  The pencil-pushers and political class know better.  Meanwhile university administration staffs and costs keep ballooning while faculty #s remain constant:

_(From the NY Times OpEd linked below).  Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase. _










						Opinion | The Real Reason College Tuition Costs So Much  (Published 2015)
					

It’s not because states have cut funding for higher education.




					www.nytimes.com


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## Copa9 (May 23, 2020)

outside! said:


> Agree. Grade inflation is happening in college also.


Maybe the written portion of the SAT/ACT should be mandatory.  At least then evaluators would know parents wouldn't be doing the work of the student and they could see who actually can write.  Writing is a huge component of almost all college course work at least in the GE requirements.


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## espola (May 23, 2020)

outside! said:


> My son recently took the AP history test. He said t was not a history test. It was a test to see who can read quickly, type quickly and write an acceptable paper. It did not test any knowledge of history at all.





			https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/ap/pdf/ap-us-history-2019-ced-scoring-guidelines.pdf


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## hugyourkids (May 25, 2020)

outside! said:


> My son recently took the AP history test. He said t was not a history test. It was a test to see who can read quickly, type quickly and write an acceptable paper. It did not test any knowledge of history at all.


This is just this year’s modified online test that did not include the multiple choice section. In its usual format it does require comprehensive knowledge of US History.


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