# SCDSL - playing same teams 3 times in one season?



## whatever (Aug 29, 2018)

My dd's team has 6 teams in her Flight 1, South II division. They are playing 12 games. Against 5 teams. So they'll play 3 of those teams twice and 2 of those teams 3 times each. There are 7 teams in the South I division. Any idea why they didn't just make a South division and play each team once?


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## mirage (Aug 29, 2018)

Probably because of the age group and parents complaining about the driving distances...

Just as the thread discusses in this section earlier.

So if one doesn't want to drive far, then one plays the same teams more...


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## Eagle33 (Aug 29, 2018)

whatever said:


> My dd's team has 6 teams in her Flight 1, South II division. They are playing 12 games. Against 5 teams. So they'll play 3 of those teams twice and 2 of those teams 3 times each. There are 7 teams in the South I division. Any idea why they didn't just make a South division and play each team once?


SCDSL works in mysterious ways......


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## whatever (Aug 29, 2018)

mirage said:


> Probably because of the age group and parents complaining about the driving distances...
> 
> Just as the thread discusses in this section earlier.
> 
> So if one doesn't want to drive far, then one plays the same teams more...



I'm not going to lose any sleep over this/just curious why they have them broken into such small divisions. And I don't think it has anything to do with driving distances...here are the teams:

South I
DMCV Sharks G2005 EGSL - Favor 
LA Galaxy Orange County G05 Premier Gonzales
Laguna United FC G05 Blue 
Pateadores RSM/LH G2005
San Diego Soccer Club G2005 Academy Navy
Slammers FC G05 RR
So Cal Blues 2005 Vaught

South II
GPS-Orange County G2005 Red San Diego
LA Galaxy Orange County G05 Premier Silva
OC Surf G05 Filipovic
San Diego Force FC Academy G2005- A. Ocampo
Slammers FC G05 Reserve
So Cal Blues 2005 Kale


http://elements.demosphere.com/73496/teams/91742887/92486511-91743002/TEAM.html


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## timbuck (Aug 29, 2018)

Seems that about 2 years ago, someone at SCDSL decided that playing a team 2 or 3 times a season was better than having 1 big bracket and just playing each team once.


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## Eagle33 (Aug 29, 2018)

whatever said:


> I'm not going to lose any sleep over this/just curious why they have them broken into such small divisions. And I don't think it has anything to do with driving distances...here are the teams:
> 
> South I
> DMCV Sharks G2005 EGSL - Favor
> ...


Look at the bright side - you don't have 4 Slammers and 5 Pats teams in your bracket


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## broshark (Aug 29, 2018)

whatever said:


> I'm not going to lose any sleep over this/just curious why they have them broken into such small divisions. And I don't think it has anything to do with driving distances...here are the teams:
> 
> South I
> DMCV Sharks G2005 EGSL - Favor
> ...


 They don't want Blues, LAGOC or Slammers teams playing each other so they split them up.

Since I'm a betting man, and since I don't have a kid in this group, I pick SDSC in South 1 and Force or GPS in South 2.  You're welcome.


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## CaliKlines (Aug 29, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Seems that about 2 years ago, someone at SCDSL decided that playing a team 2 or 3 times a season was better than having 1 big bracket and just playing each team once.


Sometimes, it is beneficial to play teams twice in a season, so that you can better measure development over a period of time.


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## OCsoccerdad7777 (Aug 29, 2018)

whatever said:


> I'm not going to lose any sleep over this/just curious why they have them broken into such small divisions. And I don't think it has anything to do with driving distances...here are the teams:
> 
> South I
> DMCV Sharks G2005 EGSL - Favor
> ...


Would it be that the South 1 is the supposedly higher level F1 and South 2 is the lower level or teams that are new to F1?


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## Eagle33 (Aug 30, 2018)

OCsoccerdad7777 said:


> Would it be that the South 1 is the supposedly higher level F1 and South 2 is the lower level or teams that are new to F1?


You must be new


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## Josep (Aug 30, 2018)

You now get home and homes with your fierce rivals.  Rejoice at the fairness.


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## ToonArmy (Aug 30, 2018)

OCsoccerdad7777 said:


> Would it be that the South 1 is the supposedly higher level F1 and South 2 is the lower level or teams that are new to F1?


I think all but maybe 4 of those teams are new to F1 and scattered in both South 1 and South 2 and some of those returning teams are new'ish teams with a lot of roster changes


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## broshark (Aug 30, 2018)

OCsoccerdad7777 said:


> Would it be that the South 1 is the supposedly higher level F1 and South 2 is the lower level or teams that are new to F1?


No.  Better teams look to be in South 2.


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## MWN (Aug 30, 2018)

whatever said:


> My dd's team has 6 teams in her Flight 1, South II division. They are playing 12 games. Against 5 teams. So they'll play 3 of those teams twice and 2 of those teams 3 times each. There are 7 teams in the South I division. Any idea why they didn't just make a South division and play each team once?


Read everybody's comments ... [SIGH] (<-- big sigh).  The reason the brackets are smaller is because of the limited playoff format for this age group.  Only the top 3 teams go to the playoffs, thus, in order to have playoffs for this age group (across the flight levels and genders) you need to send a minimum number of teams, therefore, its required to break the Flight up sufficiently so more teams get to punch their ticket.

With small brackets and a guaranteed 12 games (its 10 at the older groups with expanded playoffs - FYI), you are going to have situations where teams play the same team multiple times.

That is why.


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## Josep (Aug 30, 2018)

Could it be that there are way too many teams in club soccer?  Could it be that there are too many teams pushing for flight 1, which makes no sense.  Given that flight 1 is about the 7th tier of club soccer now?  

I believe even within flight 1 are three tiers.  

The whole thing is ridiculous.


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## timbuck (Aug 30, 2018)

Crazy part is how worked up we all get over a 10 game season. (Myself included)


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## broshark (Aug 30, 2018)

Josep said:


> Could it be that there are way too many teams in club soccer?  Could it be that there are too many teams pushing for flight 1, which makes no sense.  Given that flight 1 is about the 7th tier of club soccer now?
> 
> I believe even within flight 1 are three tiers.
> 
> The whole thing is ridiculous.


OK, which teams should we get rid of first?  Probably just nix all of Tier 3 and the bottom half of Tier 2?  Those kids can all play rec because kids who aren't really good don't need to play year round even if they love it.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Aug 30, 2018)

broshark said:


> Those kids can all play rec because kids who aren't really good don't need to play year round even if they love it.


Oh know what about the coaches pay  , does that mean they have to coach for free? LOL


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## Josep (Aug 30, 2018)

broshark said:


> OK, which teams should we get rid of first?  Probably just nix all of Tier 3 and the bottom half of Tier 2?  Those kids can all play rec because kids who aren't really good don't need to play year round even if they love it.



The beast has already been created.  There’s really no need, and not enough talent, to have more than 2 teams per age group within a club. 

So there are DA  and ECNL.  Let’s push those aside.

Now you have flight 1.  There are still too many clubs, but OK.  Why can’t the top team at each club exist there?   You can still have a champions league for the top teams and the Europa for the others.

But that’s it.   Move everything else into a secondary flight.  If this is truly about player development, move them to the top team. 

This is not 2010 and the SCDSL isn’t new anymore.   It started cleaner with the parent clubs, somewhat like CSL had.  

We are in the land of disposable income,
So there’s no stopping it now.  It’s ugly as it lies.  

I’d say for any team looking to strengthen their games and schedules, they can play in some of these additional formats like CRL and NPL and WTF.


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## zebrafish (Aug 30, 2018)

I think my kid's team plays a couple of the same teams twice.
Personally, I'd rather do that than drive 3 hours to play a new team.
With all the tournament play, there is plenty of opportunity to play against other teams.
IMHO, it can be good to play a team multiple times. I think it gives an opportunity to focus on different things than perhaps playing against a complete unknown. Maybe the defender is strong or weak that is going up against your kid. Maybe they have a really talented offensive player going against your kid-- it maybe allows them to focus on something more specific.
I think it also allows one to learn the local landscape better. What coaches you may like/dislike. What players your kid may end up potentially playing with.
At the end of the day, we all get a little more weekend. That is a good thing.


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## mirage (Aug 30, 2018)

Josep said:


> ....We are in the land of disposable income,
> So there’s no stopping it now.  It’s ugly as it lies.
> 
> I’d say for any team looking to strengthen their games and schedules, they can play in some of these additional formats like CRL and NPL and WTF.


When, not if, a recession happens, youth club soccer will likely get decimated.  Ruins of clubs and we'll look back at today and say, remember the good ol' days....

Just hope that your kids are well into college or have aged out by the time that happens.

BTW, I like the sound of WTF league.  Where do they play?  BFE?  They must compete for the BFD Championship...


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## Not_that_Serious (Aug 30, 2018)

zebrafish said:


> I think my kid's team plays a couple of the same teams twice.
> Personally, I'd rather do that than drive 3 hours to play a new team.
> With all the tournament play, there is plenty of opportunity to play against other teams.
> IMHO, it can be good to play a team multiple times. I think it gives an opportunity to focus on different things than perhaps playing against a complete unknown. Maybe the defender is strong or weak that is going up against your kid. Maybe they have a really talented offensive player going against your kid-- it maybe allows them to focus on something more specific.
> ...


yep small divisions are better. got my oldest's schedule that has only 2 divisions where teams only play each other once and that gets some far away games. 2hrs to drive, 2 hours in between and 2 hours back already kills 6hrs.  almost okay if the games are 8am on a Sat, but they arent. Almost noon on a Sunday - bogus. Its worse for the team we are visiting as they have to travel further more often for their away games. #silverlining


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## broshark (Aug 31, 2018)

Josep said:


> The beast has already been created.  There’s really no need, and not enough talent, to have more than 2 teams per age group within a club.


Kids who love soccer but may not be good enough to play on the top 2 teams don't "need" a place to play?  I see.


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## Josep (Aug 31, 2018)

broshark said:


> Kids who love soccer but may not be good enough to play on the top 2 teams don't "need" a place to play?  I see.



Yeah. Im not good to play in the EPL or the MLS.   I play in a Sunday AM beer league.  

If you aren’t on a top 2 team within a single age group at a club, you either need a new club or rethink paying for club soccer period.  But as long as mommy and daddy can write the check, there will always be a home for kids. 

And I get it; it doesn’t look as good on wifey’s Facebook to say that Lil Johnny or Lil Debbie play AYSO.  So parents keep paying way too much to win bogus trophies, and play bad soccer, and not develop, because they can afford it.   But they can post those photos of third and fourth tier tourney “championship wins.”   

I saw a popular club’s post on Instagram recently that its 4th team at a specific age group won its 4th? summer tourney and was the “Best Team yagain” at the West Coast tournament.  

What that club failed to mention was that it was competing in either the 2nd or third flight of the tourney, and that team would have been destroyed by any of the other teams in the higher flight.   

It’s not just bad marketing, it’s borderline fraud. 

But those parents on the team probably believe it, and the uninformed parents at other clubs who are looking for a good home will believe it.  

That’s a problem in my eyes.


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## FourFourTwo (Aug 31, 2018)

broshark said:


> Kids who love soccer but may not be good enough to play on the top 2 teams don't "need" a place to play?  I see.


AYSO.....


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## RedCard (Aug 31, 2018)

Josep said:


> I saw a popular club’s post on Instagram recently that its 4th team at a specific age group won its 4th? summer tourney and was the “Best Team yagain” at the West Coast tournament.
> 
> What that club failed to mention was that it was competing in either the 2nd or third flight of the tourney, and that team would have been destroyed by any of the other teams in the higher flight.
> 
> ...


Well said. This quote is on point.


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## timbuck (Aug 31, 2018)

Josep said:


> Yeah. Im not good to play in the EPL or the MLS.   I play in a Sunday AM beer league.
> 
> If you aren’t on a top 2 team within a single age group at a club, you either need a new club or rethink paying for club soccer period.  But as long as mommy and daddy can write the check, there will always be a home for kids.
> 
> ...


As long as the team is playing in the proper flight, then I've got no issue with them posting they won the tournament.
What I do have issue with is when a team plays down a level to win a trophy.  IE - Team is playing Flight 1 in the Fall season, but plays in the 2nd or 3rd flight of a tournament.  Or if a F2 team wins the 2nd flight of a tournament, but brought along half of the team from their F1/ECNL team to help them win.


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## Josep (Aug 31, 2018)

timbuck said:


> As long as the team is playing in the proper flight, then I've got no issue with them posting they won the tournament.
> What I do have issue with is when a team plays down a level to win a trophy.  IE - Team is playing Flight 1 in the Fall season, but plays in the 2nd or 3rd flight of a tournament.  Or if a F2 team wins the 2nd flight of a tournament, but brought along half of the team from their F1/ECNL team to help them win.



I think you miss the point. It’s not that they won’t the tourney.  It’s that they represent winning an age group.   

As for bringing guest players, again, you play to win. Don’t whine about the players in your way to that trophy.  Defeat them.   I have no problem with guest players regardless of where they come from.  

ECNL or DA players aren’t unicorns.  They may be better trained or have a better IQ, but they alone may not shine being a guest on a team of 15.   Typically you need a roster of those kids to reap the benefits.   

I think people forget what winning a trophy or a championship is about outcompeting 
 the other teams, who have good players and are giving their best.   

These same people who complaint about guests are often the same ones who brag about the “rankings” - which is a complete joke in and of itself.


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## broshark (Aug 31, 2018)

FourFourTwo said:


> AYSO.....


For sure.  Why should kids who just play for fun and not national titles be allowed to play all year?


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## broshark (Aug 31, 2018)

Josep said:


> I think you miss the point. It’s not that they won’t the tourney.  It’s that they represent winning an age group.
> 
> As for bringing guest players, again, you play to win. Don’t whine about the players in your way to that trophy.  Defeat them.   I have no problem with guest players regardless of where they come from.
> 
> ...


What's the point of a team winning if they're always pulling kids not on the team in to do it?  And while parents may think it's great, kids playing in easier brackets don't get any big thrill out of beating lesser competition.  What kids should want - and the best usually DO want - is to beat the best competition around.  Parents who think beating lesser players/teams is what it's all about should be smacked.


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## Josep (Aug 31, 2018)

broshark said:


> What's the point of a team winning if they're always pulling kids not on the team in to do it?  And while parents may think it's great, kids playing in easier brackets don't get any big thrill out of beating lesser competition.  What kids should want - and the best usually DO want - is to beat the best competition around.  Parents who think beating lesser players/teams is what it's all about should be smacked.



That’s an easy answer: marketing.   Clubs use those tourney wins as a lure for the uneducated.  I’ve seen it for more than a decade. Coaches tell new parents they won X the year before and that they will enter lots of tourneys leading up to state cup.   What they neglect to tell is how training works, and what the development process is.  They also don’t talk about pathways for kids to elevate teams within a club.  Now you see OC Blammersaxy preaching pathway to DA, and we all know nobody there in being considered for a DA spot in either of the Galaxy programs.  

The same argument used against guest players (which i agree with) counters the whining of the teams playing against guest players.  

Why not eliminate brackets altogether and just throw every age group team into a tourney?  Luck of the draw.  

This is hilarious.  I also saw on social recently a parent saying their team did well in the second of a flight 2 of a tourney and they lost to a really good DPL team.  LOL.  What does that even mean?   DPL teams have reputations?  They are second or third string at some clubs. 

The insanity continues.


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## broshark (Sep 4, 2018)

Josep said:


> That’s an easy answer: marketing.   Clubs use those tourney wins as a lure for the uneducated.  I’ve seen it for more than a decade. Coaches tell new parents they won X the year before and that they will enter lots of tourneys leading up to state cup.   What they neglect to tell is how training works, and what the development process is.  They also don’t talk about pathways for kids to elevate teams within a club.  Now you see OC Blammersaxy preaching pathway to DA, and we all know nobody there in being considered for a DA spot in either of the Galaxy programs.
> 
> The same argument used against guest players (which i agree with) counters the whining of the teams playing against guest players.
> 
> ...


Are you serious?  Do you think there are tons of parents out there being "tricked" into playing for a club because their 4th team won a tier 2 tournament and they put it on facebook?  Lulz.


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## timbuck (Sep 4, 2018)

I started following a lot of the local clubs on Instagram recently.  I wonder how many people that don't play for those clubs are following their pages.  You can tell which one's have put somebody in charge of social media recently.


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## Messi>CR7 (Sep 4, 2018)

Josep said:


> I saw a popular club’s post on Instagram recently that its 4th team at a specific age group won its 4th? summer tourney and was the “Best Team yagain” at the West Coast tournament.
> 
> What that club failed to mention was that it was competing in either the 2nd or third flight of the tourney, and that team would have been destroyed by any of the other teams in the higher flight.
> 
> ...


You're being overly dramatic and creating something out of nothing.  Every single parent on a flight 3 team knows there are better flight 2 and flight 1 teams.  Every parent on a flight 2 team knows there are better flight 1 teams.  Most of us do club soccer because our kids love to play, and we have disposable income.  We're not stupid enough to think some XYZ team is the best in an age group because they won some XYZ tournament in the summer.

Who cares what these clubs post on their FB or Instagram anyway?  Do you really think they should add a disclaimer to the photo so people know they did not win the most difficult flight?  I'm pretty sure if you go to UC-Irvine's website, it probably claims it's a world-class university.  Should they add a disclaimer to let people know "but Berkely and UCLA are generally considered superior to UC-Irvine within the UC system"?


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## Josep (Sep 4, 2018)

broshark said:


> Are you serious?  Do you think there are tons of parents out there being "tricked" into playing for a club because their 4th team won a tier 2 tournament and they put it on facebook?  Lulz.


Yes.  I hear coaches laugh about it somewhat frequently.  90% of the coaches at club at very good used car salesmen.


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## Josep (Sep 4, 2018)

Messi>CR7 said:


> You're being overly dramatic and creating something out of nothing.  Every single parent on a flight 3 team knows there are better flight 2 and flight 1 teams.  Every parent on a flight 2 team knows there are better flight 1 teams.  Most of us do club soccer because our kids love to play, and we have disposable income.  We're not stupid enough to think some XYZ team is the best in an age group because they won some XYZ tournament in the summer.
> 
> Who cares what these clubs post on their FB or Instagram anyway?  Do you really think they should add a disclaimer to the photo so people know they did not win the most difficult flight?  I'm pretty sure if you go to UC-Irvine's website, it probably claims it's a world-class university.  Should they add a disclaimer to let people know "but Berkely and UCLA are generally considered superior to UC-Irvine within the UC system"?



If you are honest about your approach, great.  Yes, you have disposable income. I think I said that in my response.  

As for UCI, they are going to tout numbers that they possess that are better than Berkeley. They can’t compete in all areas with Cal.  It’s not even close.   But I’m sure there are some fields where the compete or excel over Cal.  It’s being creative with the stasticts or using third party articles to support the claims. 

I’ve heard a lot of parents talk about or ask questions about claims made by coaches.   I’ve heard many B team coaches swear they are better than their club’s A team.  

I’ve gained a lot of value out of this board in the last dozen or so years.  I offer my opinion based in my experiences and conversations with parents of kids at all levels.  

Nobody has to agree with it.


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