# GU16 National Team



## Dominic (Jun 12, 2019)

*GOALKEEPERS (2):* Nona Reason (San Diego Surf; San Clemente; Calif.), Teagan Wy (West Coast FC; Rancho Santa Margarita, Calif.)  

*DEFENDERS (6):* Elise Evans (San Jose Earthquakes; Redwood City, Calif.), Kayleigh Herr (NC Courage; Cary, NC),  Elle Piper (San Jose Earthquakes; San Jose, Calif.), Evelyn Shores (Tophat; Atlanta, Ga.), Maggie Taitano (San Diego Surf; Carlsbad, Calif.), Gisele Thompson (Real So Cal; Studio City, Calif.)  

*MIDFIELDERS (5):* Sydney Becerra (Solar SC; Lewisville, Tx.),  Danielle Davis (FC Fury NY; Port Washington), Juliauna Hayward (Real Colorado; Thornton, Colo.), Peyton Marcisz (San Jose Earthquakes; San Jose), Olivia Moultrie (Portland Thorns FC; Portland, Ore.)

*FORWARDS (7):* Ella Eggleston (Lonestar Academy; Austin, Tx.), Mia Minestrella (Beach FC; Redondo Beach, Calif.),  Katherine Rader (Weston FC; Stuart, Fla.), Julia Saunicheva (San Jose Earthquakes; Santa Clara, Calif.), Jaedyn Shaw (FC Dallas; Frisco, Tex.), Alyssa Thompson (Real So Cal; Studio City, Calif.), Alivia Uribe (Reign Academy; Seattle, Wash.)


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## Dominic (Jun 12, 2019)

Earthquakes have 4 players listed.


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## GTS (Jun 12, 2019)

I believe West Coast FC  is now OC Surf.


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## Soccer43 (Jun 12, 2019)

Curious pick in the coach that was selected


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## Technician72 (Jun 12, 2019)

Dominic said:


> Earthquakes have 4 players listed.


Very talented team overall, kuddos to them and best of luck!


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## oh canada (Jun 12, 2019)

All DA clubs?  So, not the most talented players in the country, just the most talented DA players.  Still a tremendous accomplishment for these girls but that point needs to be made given the current fragmented youth landscape.  Jerseys should not read USA, but USADA


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## cheaper2keeper (Jun 12, 2019)

oh canada said:


> All DA clubs?  So, not the most talented players in the country, just the most talented DA players.  Still a tremendous accomplishment for these girls but that point needs to be made given the current fragmented youth landscape.  Jerseys should not read USA, but USADA


Kind of like Most US National teams. Not the most talented, just the most talented they’re aware of.


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## Soccer43 (Jun 12, 2019)

cheaper2keeper said:


> Kind of like Most US National teams. Not the most talented, just the most talented they’re aware of.


Or the most talented that they like or are friends with or know the parents of....


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## GTS (Jun 12, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Or the most talented that they like or are friends with or know the parents of....


Please let me know who I need to kiss a to so I can get my kid invited to a camp, if it's that easy.

Can't believe some people can't accept good thing and put a negative loop on what these kids have accomplished.


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## Sidekick (Jun 13, 2019)

cheaper2keeper said:


> Kind of like Most US National teams. Not the most talented, just the most talented they’re aware of.


I thought OM went pro so isn’t she too good to play with these girls??? Shouldn’t she be on the field now with the pros @ WC???  Or, is she where she should actually be, with her age group and equally talented peers?


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## espola (Jun 13, 2019)

GTS said:


> Please let me know who I need to kiss a to so I can get my kid invited to a camp, if it's that easy.
> 
> Can't believe some people can't accept good thing and put a negative loop on what these kids have accomplished.


If your club coach doesn't know who to contact, or doesn't contact him, you're not going anywhere unless you become a diamond in the rough of high school play.


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## GTS (Jun 13, 2019)

espola said:


> If your club coach doesn't know who to contact, or doesn't contact him, you're not going anywhere unless you become a diamond in the rough of high school play.



Right.

I'll make sure the coach contacts the President of US Soccer and to let him know that my kid should be invited to one of the camps.

If fact, all parents should do the same so their kid can be on the National Team.


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## TangoCity (Jun 13, 2019)

The US could probably field half a dozen GU16 National teams and beat each other on any given day.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Jun 13, 2019)

TangoCity said:


> The US could probably field half a dozen GU16 National teams and beat each other on any given day.


Yes but can they beat the other countries. That's what really matters


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## outside! (Jun 13, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Yes but can they beat the other countries. That's what really matters


If the team was a regional team that practiced together regularly.


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## vegasguy (Jun 13, 2019)

Seems short sighted on US Soccer's part to only select DA players but again it is their brand not Our Country's National Team that is important.


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## Dubs (Jun 14, 2019)

oh canada said:


> All DA clubs?  So, not the most talented players in the country, just the most talented DA players.  Still a tremendous accomplishment for these girls but that point needs to be made given the current fragmented youth landscape.  Jerseys should not read USA, but USADA


It's not even the most talented DA players


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## Sunil Illuminati (Jun 14, 2019)

Dubs said:


> It's not even the most talented DA players


Do you think coaches should pick teams based on "Talent?"


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## Dubs (Jun 14, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Do you think coaches should pick teams based on "Talent?"


No, but when you're looking at or developing the next generation, I would think you want the most talented kids at every position.


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## GTS (Jun 14, 2019)

Dubs said:


> It's not even the most talented DA players


How do you know that these are not the most talented in DA.  

Are you a scout?
A Coach?
A Talent Expert? Or is that just your own implusive option.


I hate stupid comments which people are just pretending to know it all.


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## Kicker4Life (Jun 14, 2019)

Dubs said:


> It's not even the most talented DA players


Based on what factors?


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## Sunil Illuminati (Jun 14, 2019)

Dubs said:


> No, but when you're looking at or developing the next generation, I would think you want the most talented kids at every position.


No. I think you'd select the players that are most equipped to deal with the next level. Talent is only a small part of that profile


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## Ellejustus (Jun 14, 2019)

Dominic said:


> *GOALKEEPERS (2):* Nona Reason (San Diego Surf; San Clemente; Calif.), Teagan Wy (West Coast FC; Rancho Santa Margarita, Calif.)
> 
> *DEFENDERS (6):* Elise Evans (San Jose Earthquakes; Redwood City, Calif.), Kayleigh Herr (NC Courage; Cary, NC),  Elle Piper (San Jose Earthquakes; San Jose, Calif.), Evelyn Shores (Tophat; Atlanta, Ga.), Maggie Taitano (San Diego Surf; Carlsbad, Calif.), Gisele Thompson (Real So Cal; Studio City, Calif.)
> 
> ...


My dd has played with or against all 6 socal players.  I can personally say all of them deserve this because their great soccer players and have made personal sacrifices to be best they can be.  DA/US Soccer are looking for those who will be committed and work their ass off.  Let's be positive for their accomplishments.  I will say if you want to be invited it's obvious you better play in the DA and we all know only a very few will get picked.


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## vegasguy (Jun 14, 2019)

Are we to assume they are the best because they come from a DA club?


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## Ellejustus (Jun 14, 2019)

Ellejustus said:


> My dd has played with or against all 6 socal players.  I can personally say all of them deserve this because their great soccer players and have made personal sacrifices to be best they can be.  DA/US Soccer are looking for those who will be committed and work their ass off.  Let's be positive for their accomplishments.  I will say if you want to be invited it's obvious you better play in the DA and we all know only a very few will get picked.





vegasguy said:


> Are we to assume they are the best because they come from a DA club?


In Socal, yes.  Earthquake players are studs too.  I can't speak on the rest of the country.  IMO, if Socal told DA to stick it then their is no league


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## Sunil Illuminati (Jun 14, 2019)

vegasguy said:


> Are we to assume they are the best because they come from a DA club?


Best is always subjective. They're representing the US. Get behind them.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 14, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> Based on what factors?


Congrats Brah!!!!


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## Ellejustus (Jun 14, 2019)

Ellejustus said:


> Congrats Brah!!!!


Gotta love having a GOAT make it.  Super stoked for you and so is my dd


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## Real Deal (Jun 14, 2019)

How are they doing?  Have they played any games yet?  Go USA!


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## Kicker4Life (Jun 14, 2019)

2-2 v Netherlands 

We won 5-3 in pK’s


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## GTS (Jun 14, 2019)

vegasguy said:


> Are we to assume they are the best because they come from a DA club?


These player got invited to this camp because of their ability to standout from the rest and perform at a national team level.  They are the best not because they are DA players, instead they have accomplished the criteria needed to be able to potentially compete at international stage.


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## Kicker4Life (Jun 14, 2019)

Ellejustus said:


> Gotta love having a GOAT make it.  Super stoked for you and so is my dd


Thank you!


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## GeekKid (Jun 14, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> Thank you!


Kicker, where do you get the updates on their games.  The Solar girl on the roster if from my DDs team and would like to get updates to her.


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## Surf Zombie (Jun 14, 2019)

Don’t have a player in this age group and don’t know any of the girls on the list. I’m sure each and every one of them is incredibly talented.
That said,  Slammers, PDA, Michigan Hawks, Eclipse Select, FC Stars, Crossfire and the other 70 plus ECNL clubs don’t have a single kid as deserving as the 20 who made it?

If the pissing contest has gotten to the point that all ECNL players are going to be excluded from YNT pools then they’ve reached a whole other level of pettiness. What a mess.


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## Blank95661 (Jun 14, 2019)

GTS said:


> Please let me know who I need to kiss a to so I can get my kid invited to a camp, if it's that easy.
> 
> Can't believe some people can't accept good thing and put a negative loop on what these kids have accomplished.


It's a great honor, but to call it a National Team is a stretch when you only select players from one league.  This is more like a National All Star team from the DA that will represent the USA.  No knock on the players and I'd be proud as hell if I was one of them, but lets just call it what it is.  There are no DA teams in about 1/2 to 1/3 of the states, so should we assume there is no talent there?  It's a tough job for US Soccer, but excluding ECNL players is more about winning the pissing match with the ECNL than it is about fielding the best National team, in my opinion.


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## vegasguy (Jun 14, 2019)

All I am saying is.   Are the players invited only DA?  There are no other players in any league nationwide competing at the level that it takes to play YNT?  
I behind All Teams Stars and Stripes but I also think as a country we need to broaden our view of players or we will continue to stagnate.


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## MacDre (Jun 14, 2019)

Ellejustus said:


> My dd has played with or against all 6 socal players.  I can personally say all of them deserve this because their great soccer players and have made personal sacrifices to be best they can be.  DA/US Soccer are looking for those who will be committed and work their ass off.  Let's be positive for their accomplishments.  I will say if you want to be invited it's obvious you better play in the DA and we all know only a very few will get picked.


Based on my limited personal experience, I am 100% certain that US Soccer is considering kids that don’t play in the GDA.  My player has never played club and will be called into camp in the near future.  She also had the opportunity to play up 2-3 years for Deza at the Earthquakes but US Soccer is fine with her staying where she is.  Please stop all the speculation and conjecture.


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## MarkM (Jun 14, 2019)

GTS said:


> How do you know that these are not the most talented in DA.
> 
> Are you a scout?
> A Coach?
> ...


I have no opinion on this list.  I'm sure all the girls are terrific.  But if any of these kids are on your kid's team, you see these kids play a ton more than US soccer.  So when you see a kid get a call up once or multiple times, but you see other kids on the team or club being passed up that are clearly better, it's easy to question US soccer.  After watching kids play 30 plus games in 10 months, you don't have to be a scout, coach or talent expert.  You just need a brain.  It's not rocket science.


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## MarkM (Jun 14, 2019)

Blank95661 said:


> It's a great honor, but to call it a National Team is a stretch when you only select players from one league.  This is more like a National All Star team from the DA that will represent the USA.  No knock on the players and I'd be proud as hell if I was one of them, but lets just call it what it is.  There are no DA teams in about 1/2 to 1/3 of the states, so should we assume there is no talent there?  It's a tough job for US Soccer, but excluding ECNL players is more about winning the pissing match with the ECNL than it is about fielding the best National team, in my opinion.


Spot on my friend.  Unlike ECNL, US Soccer has fiduciary responsibility to field the best national teams.   As the national governing body, Congress has essentially granted US Soccer (cough, cough, Nike) an unfettered monopoly over the sport in the US.  But instead of complaining about US Soccer, we should be lobbying Congress to take away its designation.


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## Dubs (Jun 16, 2019)

GTS said:


> How do you know that these are not the most talented in DA.
> 
> Are you a scout?
> A Coach?
> ...


It is my opinion.  That is all.  You can think it's stupid..., but this is a forum and opinions are stated here all the time.  Not sure why you're all bent out of shape.


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## Dubs (Jun 16, 2019)

Surf Zombie said:


> Don’t have a player in this age group and don’t know any of the girls on the list. I’m sure each and every one of them is incredibly talented.
> That said,  Slammers, PDA, Michigan Hawks, Eclipse Select, FC Stars, Crossfire and the other 70 plus ECNL clubs don’t have a single kid as deserving as the 20 who made it?
> 
> If the pissing contest has gotten to the point that all ECNL players are going to be excluded from YNT pools then they’ve reached a whole other level of pettiness. What a mess.


That is my contention and also reason for saying what I said.  The whole thing is wack!  Agree completely with your statement.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 16, 2019)

Dubs said:


> That is my contention and also reason for saying what I said.  The whole thing is wack!  Agree completely with your statement.


Just call it for what it is for this age group.  The U16 Girls 04 DA National Team.  Maybe us 2nd tier folks in ECNL can come up with a National Team too and then battle it out once a year.  Now that would be something to watch


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## GTS (Jun 16, 2019)

Please read this link.

May answer some questions regarding call up from ECNL, DA, and other clubs.

https://www.soccerwire.com/blog-posts/nearly-400-players-earn-u-s-gnt-wnt-call-ups-in-2018/


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## Soccer43 (Jun 16, 2019)

The article comes across as a bit deceiving to say over 400 call-ups.  They are combining all age groups to make it sound like a bigger pool.  They are including the WNT call-ups, pro and college age with the YNT teams.  While that might be a correct label of "national team" call-ups I find it a bit deceptive if you are looking at Youth players verses college/Pro/WNT rosters.  If you pull out all the college, pro, and WNT call-ups  you have about 240 players over a span of 7 years.  That averages out to about 34 players per birth year.


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## Kicker4Life (Jun 16, 2019)

1-0 USA over the Dutch.


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## Emma (Jun 16, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> The article comes across as a bit deceiving to say over 400 call-ups.  They are combining all age groups to make it sound like a bigger pool.  They are including the WNT call-ups, pro and college age with the YNT teams.  While that might be a correct label of "national team" call-ups I find it a bit deceptive if you are looking at Youth players verses college/Pro/WNT rosters.  If you pull out all the college, pro, and WNT call-ups  you have about 240 players over a span of 7 years.  That averages out to about 34 players per birth year.


The article is not deceptive - "GNT/WNT".  We understand you don't like the DA, my child is not in DA nor a DA club either but this article is stating facts without any bias. 

"Over 400 *players *received call-ups to one or more *U.S. Girls and Women’s* National Team events so far in 2018, from the U-14 age group up to the senior level. Continue to the next page for a look at the entire U.S. Girls and Women’s National Team player pool for 2018."  That's pretty much the entire article.  No where does it claim to be including only youth teams or youth players.


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## Soccer43 (Jun 16, 2019)

I said:   “While that might be a correct label of "national team" call-ups I find it a bit deceptive *IF *you are looking at Youth players verses college/Pro/WNT rosters”. I also said nothing about DA or ECNL.

This thread is about the YNT - not all call-ups, that’s why I was curious about the stats for the YNT and not so much about the college and pro level.  To me, it looks like the older call-ups run a different path than the youth teams.


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## pewpew (Jun 16, 2019)

Ellejustus said:


> Just call it for what it is for this age group.  The U16 Girls 04 DA National Team.  Maybe us 2nd tier folks in ECNL can come up with a National Team too and then battle it out once a year.  Now that would be something to watch


You beat me to it.
What would US Soccer do then if the ECNL All-Stars beat the DA All-Stars???


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## shales1002 (Jun 16, 2019)

pewpew said:


> You beat me to it.
> What would US Soccer do then if the ECNL All-Stars beat the DA All-Stars???


Isn’t that what the ICC tournament is setting up this December ... U15 ECNL and U15 GDA Allstar teams?


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## MarkM (Jun 16, 2019)

shales1002 said:


> Isn’t that what the ICC tournament is setting up this December ... U15 ECNL and U15 GDA Allstar teams?


My guess is that it will just be some local kids from both leagues.


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## girlsrule7 (Jun 17, 2019)

MarkM said:


> My guess is that it will just be some local kids from both leagues.


From how I read it it will be one actual U15 DA team (assume they choose a successful team?) vs. a U15 ECNL "all star" team made from kids from all over.


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## MacDre (Jun 20, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Based on my limited personal experience, I am 100% certain that US Soccer is considering kids that don’t play in the GDA.  My player has never played club and will be called into camp in the near future.  She also had the opportunity to play up 2-3 years for Deza at the Earthquakes but US Soccer is fine with her staying where she is.  Please stop all the speculation and conjecture.


This article appears accurate to me.  My kid doesn’t play club or GDA.  However, my kid trains with a Mexican professional academy.
https://www.soccernation.com/scouting


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## FernandoFromNationalCity (Jun 20, 2019)

MacDre said:


> This article appears accurate to me.  My kid doesn’t play club or GDA.  However, my kid trains with a Mexican professional academy.
> https://www.soccernation.com/scouting


Good article.. 2 years ago my daughter got invited to one of those Id training camps in Del Mar right before her age group had any da teams.. she went once a month for like 7 months.. the training was great but it just stop for us and we never got invited back.. i got kinda curious why we wouldn’t get any emails to return..So i spoke to my daughters coach about that and apparently they where only going to invite back players that where going into da.. and at time Rebels highest competition level was the coast league.. it was kinda a bummer because there wasn’t really any close teams with da and to be honest my daughter was happy being with the Rebels..


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## Dubs (Jun 21, 2019)

MacDre said:


> This article appears accurate to me.  My kid doesn’t play club or GDA.  However, my kid trains with a Mexican professional academy.
> https://www.soccernation.com/scouting


Thanks for sharing.  This article is very telling and validates the fact that they are only looking at kids in DA, which is completely lame.  The funny thing is that all of this stuff is ultimately in the hands of the club and though they paint it like DA teams have some kind of synergy, in terms of coaching/training environment, they don't.  The only consistent thing is the frequency of training, # of games played and DA rules.  The pissing match between DA & ECNL continues and deserving kids get overlooked.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 21, 2019)

FernandoFromNationalCity said:


> Good article.. 2 years ago my daughter got invited to one of those Id training camps in Del Mar right before her age group had any da teams.. she went once a month for like 7 months.. the training was great but it just stop for us and we never got invited back.. i got kinda curious why we wouldn’t get any emails to return..So i spoke to my daughters coach about that and apparently they where only going to invite back players that where going into da.. and at time Rebels highest competition level was the coast league.. it was kinda a bummer because there wasn’t really any close teams with da and to be honest my daughter was happy being with the Rebels..


"This year’s U-16s are in the first year of their two-year cycle. All of players on the roster play in the U.S. Soccer Development Academy."


Dubs said:


> Thanks for sharing.  This article is very telling and validates the fact that they are only looking at kids in DA, which is completely lame.  The funny thing is that all of this stuff is ultimately in the hands of the club and though they paint it like DA teams have some kind of synergy, in terms of coaching/training environment, they don't.  The only consistent thing is the frequency of training, # of games played and DA rules.  The pissing match between DA & ECNL continues and deserving kids get overlooked.


So sad on the girls side.  I get it for the boys.  Boys sacrifice HS Soccer and social life for a nice pay day.  ROI baby.  Girls are not boys.  99.5% of the girls are playing for college.  ECNL fits that model  

From National Team site: "This year’s U-16s are in the first year of their two-year cycle. All of players on the roster play in the U.S. Soccer Development Academy."  
Any girl 04' or younger who wants to get the call up to YNT or Camps better play DA or be very very good and play far away from any DA club within 2 hours.....lol!  Seriously this is wrong on so many fronts.  Oh well........


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## Kicker4Life (Jun 21, 2019)

Dubs said:


> Thanks for sharing.  This article is very telling and validates the fact that they are only looking at kids in DA, which is completely lame.  The funny thing is that all of this stuff is ultimately in the hands of the club and though they paint it like DA teams have some kind of synergy, in terms of coaching/training environment, they don't.  The only consistent thing is the frequency of training, # of games played and DA rules.  The pissing match between DA & ECNL continues and deserving kids get overlooked.


It is very unfortunate!


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## Dubs (Jun 21, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> It is very unfortunate!


Tough pill to swallow.  I just tell my DD that her time will come in college when it really matters.  The YNT call ups are a good experience for these girls and helps their recruiting profile, but that's about it.  College is the place where there will be, at least, a much greater amount of meritocrisy and ability to separate the cream.


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## Kicker4Life (Jun 21, 2019)

Dubs said:


> Tough pill to swallow.  I just tell my DD that her time will come in college when it really matters.  The YNT call ups are a good experience for these girls and helps their recruiting profile, but that's about it.  College is the place where there will be, at least, a much greater amount of meritocrisy and ability to separate the cream.


true.


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## vegasguy (Jun 21, 2019)

I know this is a girls forum but the article mentions Danny Leyva.  His is an amazing player and definitely in that 5% and not the norm.  Vegas is a tough market with a lot of talent split among a few clubs.  We have had boys move onto MLS DA (Like Danny) with RSL, LA Galaxy, Sounders, Minnesota United and a couple others.  We have had players turn down FC Dallas, Timbers, Sounders and RSL as well.  You say sacrifice and at 14yrs old you are asking child to sacrifice his life and comforts for a 5% dream.   It isn't an easy decision to leave Vegas at 14 or 15, go to a new school in a new state and live with a host family in most cases.   Those that do we all wish the the best as it makes our little soccer community proud.  Those that stay also sacrifice there time in training as even though they didn't leave their dream still exists. 
The point is US Soccer's narrow perspective on where they see national team players coming from is hurting our country.  There are other Danny Leyva's in Vegas that the US is just not willing to look at or invest in.  This goes for girls as well.  We have a talented, dedicated, smart, athletic female players here also.  Again, DA is a US Soccer brand and US Soccer will promote that first as it is a revenue stream.


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## Woobie06 (Jun 21, 2019)

US Soccer has made it very clear what the preferred path to the YNT is...their house, their rules.  This is more about trying to marginalize the ECNL and driving top players from ECNL to DA.  We have spoken to a few D1 Coaches about the DA / ECNL debate and they are well aware of what is going on.  Based on the feedback they are looking for the best kids that fit their program and university...they don't care if the player comes from DA or ECNL.  Today they scout both.  I guess it depends what the goal is for your player, and what that journey will look like, and whats important to you, your kid, and family.  If you want a shot at the YNT, and FIFA esque rules go DA, if you want High School, more college esque rules go ECNL.  If you live in an area where you have one or zero options, that's very unfortunate.  The choice is up to you based on what the goal is, stay put, go DA, go ECNL, make a long drive 4+ days a week, or move if it that important.  Choice is yours.  There is not a one-size fits all platform at this point, both leagues have merit, pros and cons.

Is it fair, no...but life is not fair.  They have made the rules pretty clear, and if a chance for a call-up is in the cards for your player, it's pretty clear you better move them to a DA Club.  I am 100% sure there are ECNL players capable of playing for this team, I don't think anyone would debate it.  At the end of the day it is great honor for these young ladies, and they have worked hard to get where they are and have sacrificed a lot as have their families to support them along the way.  They would not be there otherwise.  I hope they all represent our country well and make the most of the opportunity.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 21, 2019)

Dubs said:


> Thanks for sharing.  This article is very telling and validates the fact that they are only looking at kids in DA, which is completely lame.  The funny thing is that all of this stuff is ultimately in the hands of the club and though they paint it like DA teams have some kind of synergy, in terms of coaching/training environment, they don't.  The only consistent thing is the frequency of training, # of games played and DA rules.  The pissing match between DA & ECNL continues and deserving kids get overlooked.





Woobie06 said:


> US Soccer has made it very clear what the preferred path to the YNT is...their house, their rules.  This is more about trying to marginalize the ECNL and driving top players from ECNL to DA.  We have spoken to a few D1 Coaches about the DA / ECNL debate and they are well aware of what is going on.  Based on the feedback they are looking for the best kids that fit their program and university...they don't care if the player comes from DA or ECNL.  Today they scout both.  I guess it depends what the goal is for your player, and what that journey will look like, and whats important to you, your kid, and family.  If you want a shot at the YNT, and FIFA esque rules go DA, if you want High School, more college esque rules go ECNL.  If you live in an area where you have one or zero options, that's very unfortunate.  The choice is up to you based on what the goal is, stay put, go DA, go ECNL, make a long drive 4+ days a week, or move if it that important.  Choice is yours.  There is not a one-size fits all platform at this point, both leagues have merit, pros and cons.
> 
> Is it fair, no...but life is not fair.  They have made the rules pretty clear, and if a chance for a call-up is in the cards for your player, it's pretty clear you better move them to a DA Club.  I am 100% sure there are ECNL players capable of playing for this team, I don't think anyone would debate it.  At the end of the day it is great honor for these young ladies, and they have worked hard to get where they are and have sacrificed a lot as have their families to support them along the way.  They would not be there otherwise.  I hope they all represent our country well and make the most of the opportunity.


Great points.  It is what it is.  If US Soccer made one little concession then they could put a fork in ECNL.  Let the girls who want to play HS soccer play.  Maybe tell those girls your won't get called into Camp.  That would be fair.  Also, maybe have only 4 or 5 players on a roster of 23.  None of this private school waiver crap.  That's to appease the elites in SoCal.


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## Fact (Jun 21, 2019)

Ellejustus said:


> "This year’s U-16s are in the first year of their two-year cycle. All of players on the roster play in the U.S. Soccer Development Academy."
> 
> So sad on the girls side.  I get it for the boys.  Boys sacrifice HS Soccer and social life for a nice pay day.  ROI baby.  Girls are not boys.  99.5% of the girls are playing for college.  ECNL fits that model
> 
> ...


I would agree with you but for your statement that “ECNL fits that model” implying that only they can match DA players.   I am sure there are a few girls out there that don’t play DA or ECNL or maybe not even club at all that deserve a shot too. But due to distance, coach conflicts, finances, family situations, etc. they don’t get any love even when a coach advocates for them.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 21, 2019)

Ellejustus said:


> DA could kill ECNL with one small concession:  Allow HS Soccer for player kids who have  not get called up to any YNT Camp (Training center doesn't count)
> 
> Great points.  It is what it is.  If US Soccer made one little concession then they could put a fork in ECNL.  Let the girls who want to play HS soccer play.  Maybe tell those girls your won't get called into Camp.  That would be fair.  Also, maybe have only 4 or 5 players on a roster of 23.  None of this private school waiver crap.  That's to appease the elites in SoCal.





Fact said:


> I would agree with you but for your statement that “ECNL fits that model” implying that only they can match DA players.   I am sure there are a few girls out there that don’t play DA or ECNL or maybe not even club at all that deserve a shot too. But due to distance, coach conflicts, finances, family situations, etc. they don’t get any love even when a coach advocates for them.


So true.  The cream will rise to the top when it counts.


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## RocketFile (Jun 21, 2019)

Just a prediction (recommendation?) here...

1. MLS pulls out of DA by Summer 2020 and only runs "academy" programs for boys U17 and U19. MLS U17 would be filled with the top 16 and 17 year olds but also the very top 15 year old and even a few 14 year olds.

2. US Soccer, with the support of NWSL (and MLS cooperation), creates a similar academy program on the girls side for U17 and U19, focused on the National Team and developing US women's professional soccer/NWSL.

3. MLS solidarity payments and transfer payments policies regarding intl transfers are further established within these MLS/NWSL academy systems.

4. US Soccer DA becomes the de facto pre-professional development platform - U13 through U19 and expands to include 50 to 100 more clubs nationwide. DA feeds its top players into MLS/NWSL academies.

5. ECNL comes under pressure, and either in drips or in one fell swoop, becomes part of the DA system.

6. A Training Compensation payments policy is established between DA and MLS/NWSL academies, which promotes moving top young players up the pyramid to the MLS/NWSL academies.

7. US Soccer manages YNT call ups and team selection in conjunction with the DA and MLS/NWSL academies.

You don't actually think the landscape has finished evolving do you?

This is just for fun, please do not take offense.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Jun 21, 2019)

There is a  way for ECNL to win this war and that's to convince the remaining big So Cal DA Clubs to join ECNL. The challenge they face is that ECNL also previously blocked a number of those groups from joining them before DA rolled out and I'm sure those clubs remember that.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 21, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> There is a  way for ECNL to win this war and that's to convince the remaining big So Cal DA Clubs to join ECNL. The challenge they face is that ECNL also previously blocked a number of those groups from joining them before DA rolled out and I'm sure those clubs remember that.


Bingo!!!!


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## rainbow_unicorn (Jun 22, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> There is a  way for ECNL to win this war and that's to convince the remaining big So Cal DA Clubs to join ECNL. The challenge they face is that ECNL also previously blocked a number of those groups from joining them before DA rolled out and I'm sure those clubs remember that.


There is no way for ECNL to win this war.  ECNL should wave the white flag and work with US Soccer on becoming a development league for markets not covered by DA and second-tier (DPL level) teams in DA markets.


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## Soccer43 (Jun 22, 2019)

ECNL doesn’t have to win a war.  They have demonstrated that they can thrive despite the initial threat of US Soccer’s attempt to unravel ECNL.  It is US Soccer that is trying to win a war.  Initially I thought the DA would be the demise of ECNL when it first started but as things have played out it no longer looks that way.  I would suspect that both will continue and top players will make a choice on what is a better fit based on their personal goals.


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## vegasguy (Jun 22, 2019)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> There is no way for ECNL to win this war.  ECNL should wave the white flag and work with US Soccer on becoming a development league for markets not covered by DA and second-tier (DPL level) teams in DA markets.


Both leagues are good leagues there is no doubt and the top 6 or so of each league would make a good league and the bottom of both would make a good development or second tier.  Promotion and relegation would be fun but tryouts would be crazy.  Let's do a Netflix reality show about this.

For anyone to make a definitive statement that ECNL should just quit is silly.  The league is thriving on the girls side and growing on the boys.  MLS leaves DA and works with USL and DA boys becomes just another league with a patch.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Jun 22, 2019)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> There is no way for ECNL to win this war.  ECNL should wave the white flag and work with US Soccer on becoming a development league for markets not covered by DA and second-tier (DPL level) teams in DA markets.


Respectfully disagree. USSDA loses Surf and a few others then there is no DA. The domino effect would be massive and strategically ECNL could eliminate some of the other DA clubs by not accepting them. Those that are currently free would probably be most at threat


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## ToonArmy (Jun 22, 2019)

I think ECNL already tried that by forcing them to go all in didn't they? And they chose DA


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## Sunil Illuminati (Jun 22, 2019)

ToonArmy said:


> I think ECNL already tried that by forcing them to go all in didn't they? And they chose DA


Some did. Some didn't. At some point the clubs might decide to do what's best for them and not what's best for US Soccer. Now there's a novel idea.


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## softwaretest (Jun 22, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Respectfully disagree. USSDA loses Surf and a few others then there is no DA. The domino effect would be massive and strategically ECNL could eliminate some of the other DA clubs by not accepting them. Those that are currently free would probably be most at threat


Except that Surf just added another DA program. Don't think they'll be dropping out anytime soon.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jun 22, 2019)

softwaretest said:


> Except that Surf just added another DA program. Don't think they'll be dropping out anytime soon.


Stop making sense.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jun 22, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Some did. Some didn't. At some point the clubs might decide to do what's best for them and not what's best for US Soccer. Now there's a novel idea.


Whatever happened to the real SG?


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## timmyh (Jun 22, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Some did. Some didn't. At some point the clubs might decide to do what's best for them and not what's best for US Soccer. Now there's a novel idea.


Seems like the most all the clubs who did go all in for ECNL and dropped DA did it for the money (getting a 2nd ECNL team or other local monopoly concessions). The teams who weren't so politically connected and simply had to choose one or the other (recently Tophat, FC Dallas, Real Colorado, for example) all chose DA.


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## soccer4us (Jun 23, 2019)

This is really GDA's last power play left since they are not bending rules on HS soccer play. The top end clubs this will scare who produce national team players and likely stay with GDA at least in the short term. Is it petty? sure, but it's their choice. I predict both leagues will be around for awhile and we'll continue asking all the same questions. It seem like down here the clubs are spread out in terms of who got the spots for this roster. In Nor Cal to have 4 from the quakes but 0 from MVLA 04 for example is mind boggling but like all of you said, it's all about being DA or not.


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## Kicker4Life (Jun 23, 2019)

I predict this discussion will go round and round for days LOL


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## shales1002 (Jun 23, 2019)

timmyh said:


> Seems like the most all the clubs who did go all in for ECNL and dropped DA did it for the money (getting a 2nd ECNL team or other local monopoly concessions). The teams who weren't so politically connected and simply had to choose one or the other (recently Tophat, FC Dallas, Real Colorado, for example) all chose DA.


What have you been reading? ECNL cut them . ECNL made the choice for them. Last summer weren’t we on here talking about how Surf’ ECNL teams were being sold on the DPL after they were unexpectedly cut? Hell Real Colorado’s Director just had a recent article no less than two months about they would choose ECNL IF they would give them two teams. The concessions were given last summer for those teams that made the switch.

This pissing match only hurts the girls. Who gives a sh*t what league you play in. The NATIONAL team should be just that! The best of the best kinda how Surf Cup used to be. Our DD can’t control their geography or their parents finances. It sucks when you tell your kid to be the best and work hard. Colleges know who the best players are, and that’s what this should all be about. Putting together a national team comprised of the best.


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## oh canada (Jun 23, 2019)

Both leagues will operate successfully in the same territories as long as each is offering a different "product".  If only one league is offered in an area, then there is no decision to be made---best players to go that league/club.  But in geographic areas where both leagues have clubs, ECNL and DA offer different "flavors".  So they compete for players, but not really because players who want to play high school, and want more flexibility with their time for other sports/activities/school/vacations, are choosing ECNL (we know several starters at top DA clubs who are making the move to ECNL for this reason).  Those players and families with a more narrow or funneled focus on club soccer at 13/14yrs are choosing DA.  If your kid has limited interests beyond soccer (not saying they shouldn't), then DA is an easy choice.  But if they love soccer AND also enjoy playing the violin and volleyball, and spending time after school with Math Club, then ECNL gives them that option.  Not all girls who love soccer want to narrow their career paths to being a soccer player, coach. or physical therapist from their first year of high school.  A bit of hyperbole, I admit, but there is some truth to that as the girls in college now all had more flexibility with their high school time than the DA is now requiring.  

Good players in both leagues will play at the same colleges.  Players from both leagues will eventually get call ups to the senior USWNT.  The only thing at this point ECNL players miss out on is a slim chance at making a young national team that gets together a few times a year for training/tournaments.  Worth it?  Depends on your kids' interests beyond soccer.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 23, 2019)

shales1002 said:


> What have you been reading? ECNL cut them . ECNL made the choice for them. Last summer weren’t we on here talking about how Surf’ ECNL teams were being sold on the DPL after they were unexpectedly cut? Hell Real Colorado’s Director just had a recent article no less than two months about they would choose ECNL IF they would give them two teams. The concessions were given last summer for those teams that made the switch.
> 
> This pissing match only hurts the girls. Who gives a sh*t what league you play in. The NATIONAL team should be just that! The best of the best kinda how Surf Cup used to be. Our DD can’t control their geography or their parents finances. It sucks when you tell your kid to be the best and work hard. Colleges know who the best players are, and that’s what this should all be about. Putting together a national team comprised of the best.


$omething is very wrong and I $mell $omething rotten with $oCal $occer/US $occer.  I have personally dealt with this with my 04' dd in $ocal.  Two clubs have very $trong ties to U$ $occer.  $urf & Legend$.  Why? $urf has a 5 year contract with US $occer.  Klingsman is financially involved with Silver Lakes.  I'm pissed because my dd loves playing soccer and would like to compete against the best of the best.  She is also very social and where she goes to HS it's cool and fun to play HS soccer.


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## ToonArmy (Jun 23, 2019)

What I got out of that article was that ecnl didn't want dual clubs to place their B teams in ecnl so they made those clubs choose 1 or the other. If they chose DA sure I guess you can claim they got cut by ecnl just as someone else can say they dropped ecnl cause they could have kept it if they chose to.

 Colorado club said they would choose ecnl if they got 2 ecnl teams if not then they would choose DA. Since they are now all in DA we could assume ecnl didn't give them 2 teams like they did Slammers.


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## shales1002 (Jun 23, 2019)

ToonArmy said:


> What I got out of that article was that ecnl didn't want dual clubs to place their B teams in ecnl so they made those clubs choose 1 or the other. If they chose DA sure I guess you can claim they got cut by ecnl just as someone else can say they dropped ecnl cause they could have kept it if they chose to.
> 
> Colorado club said they would choose ecnl if they got 2 ecnl teams if not then they would choose DA. Since they are now all in DA we could assume ecnl didn't give them 2 teams like they did Slammers.


Think about that for a second....all ECNL had to do was allow two teams for those clubs. The clubs were willing to come back if they did so. ECNL gave them that offer after the first year of GDA.  Everyone that returned after year two GDA got one team only. The way it looks you all will have a league with just Texas and SoCal, and as a result the USYNT will be from SoCal, Earthquake, Tophat, and Texas.  In doing so does how does that hold more weight for those selected? I personally think it diminishes their accomplishments. 

 I also think it tarnishes the reputation of U.S. because everyone else in the world is picking the best AND watching the World Cup shows that the U.S. has a lot of talent playing for different countries.


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## timbuck (Jun 23, 2019)

Don’t confuse the youth national teams with the senior national team. 
Senior teams won’t look at whether they played DA or not.  College, pro, semi pro performance will be what matters.  

Do any of the youth national teams get paid?  I’m assuming the u15-u19 players do not. I assume their camp call ups, travel and training costs are covered. Do the u20 and u23 players make any money from playing in the national team?


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## shales1002 (Jun 23, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Don’t confuse the youth national teams with the senior national team.
> Senior teams won’t look at whether they played DA or not.  College, pro, semi pro performance will be what matters.
> 
> Do any of the youth national teams get paid?  I’m assuming the u15-u19 players do not. I assume their camp call ups, travel and training costs are covered. Do the u20 and u23 players make any money from playing in the national team?


I’m not confusing it at all. My point is that some of the most talented  young ladies playing in the World Cup are U.S. citizens playing for other countries. There’s no need for me to make a list. Most senior national teams don’t care which league you played with the exception of ours whether it’s the DA or NWSL. They care.

Of course the YNT don’t get paid. Doing so would make them ineligible to compete in the NCAA. However, having YNT experiences on your soccer resume makes the college recruiting process a lot easier.


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## StylinAndProfilin (Jun 23, 2019)

shales1002 said:


> I’m not confusing it at all. My point is that some of the most talented  young ladies playing in the World Cup are U.S. citizens playing for other countries. There’s no need for me to make a list. Most senior national teams don’t care which league you played with the exception of ours whether it’s the DA or NWSL. They care.
> 
> Of course the YNT don’t get paid. Doing so would make them ineligible to compete in the NCAA. However, having YNT experiences on your soccer resume makes the college recruiting process a lot easier.


Imagine a scenario in which a player is eligible to play for another country in addition to the United States, but plays in ECNL and doesn't get called into the U.S.team. Imagine this player then goes and represents another country, loves it, becomes a world class player, and decides to represent that country on the senior team.

"Hey Jane Doe plays for Mexico/Canada/England/Brazil, but grew up in SoCal. Why doesn't she play for USA?"


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## FernandoFromNationalCity (Jun 23, 2019)

StylinAndProfilin said:


> Imagine a scenario in which a player is eligible to play for another country in addition to the United States, but plays in ECNL and doesn't get called into the U.S.team. Imagine this player then goes and represents another country, loves it, becomes a world class player, and decides to represent that country on the senior team.
> 
> "Hey Jane Doe plays for Mexico/Canada/England/Brazil, but grew up in SoCal. Why doesn't she play for USA?"


Example: Alex Alaca who plays in Northern California I think.. doesn’t really fit the American mold being big and physical but the kid is small for his age but has so much skill and can read the field who now has played for the Mexican u-15 team..


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## Ellejustus (Jun 23, 2019)

shales1002 said:


> Think about that for a second....all ECNL had to do was allow two teams for those clubs. The clubs were willing to come back if they did so. ECNL gave them that offer after the first year of GDA.  Everyone that returned after year two GDA got one team only. The way it looks you all will have a league with just Texas and SoCal, and as a result the USYNT will be from SoCal, Earthquake, Tophat, and Texas.  In doing so does how does that hold more weight for those selected? I personally think it diminishes their accomplishments.
> 
> I also think it tarnishes the reputation of U.S. because everyone else in the world is picking the best AND watching the World Cup shows that the U.S. has a lot of talent playing for different countries.





StylinAndProfilin said:


> Imagine a scenario in which a player is eligible to play for another country in addition to the United States, but plays in ECNL and doesn't get called into the U.S.team. Imagine this player then goes and represents another country, loves it, becomes a world class player, and decides to represent that country on the senior team.
> 
> "Hey Jane Doe plays for Mexico/Canada/England/Brazil, but grew up in SoCal. Why doesn't she play for USA?"


Next world cup you might see a stud from ECNL playing for another country.....no esta bien   My dd would never play for another country if given the chance.  BTW, does anyone know if Guatemala has a YNT?


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## Dubs (Jun 23, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Both leagues will operate successfully in the same territories as long as each is offering a different "product".  If only one league is offered in an area, then there is no decision to be made---best players to go that league/club.  But in geographic areas where both leagues have clubs, ECNL and DA offer different "flavors".  So they compete for players, but not really because players who want to play high school, and want more flexibility with their time for other sports/activities/school/vacations, are choosing ECNL (we know several starters at top DA clubs who are making the move to ECNL for this reason).  Those players and families with a more narrow or funneled focus on club soccer at 13/14yrs are choosing DA.  If your kid has limited interests beyond soccer (not saying they shouldn't), then DA is an easy choice.  But if they love soccer AND also enjoy playing the violin and volleyball, and spending time after school with Math Club, then ECNL gives them that option.  Not all girls who love soccer want to narrow their career paths to being a soccer player, coach. or physical therapist from their first year of high school.  A bit of hyperbole, I admit, but there is some truth to that as the girls in college now all had more flexibility with their high school time than the DA is now requiring.
> 
> Good players in both leagues will play at the same colleges.  Players from both leagues will eventually get call ups to the senior USWNT.  The only thing at this point ECNL players miss out on is a slim chance at making a young national team that gets together a few times a year for training/tournaments.  Worth it?  Depends on your kids' interests beyond soccer.


You make it seem like ECNL gives you all this time and flexibility.... Like it's some league for kids with other interests?  What are you talking about?  It requires a similar amount of time/effort as DA, but it also offers HS soccer and doesn't have same rules.  I my DD's case, there is not time for other sports, activities and or vacations.  Not sure why you made that statement.


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## Jose has returned (Jun 23, 2019)

National team will take the best players.  If they have 20 studs that were ECNL but played for top college programs they will get invited.  Then it is up to them to make it.  Players always slip through the cracks.  Tom Brady pick 199 mike trout 25 th pick it happens a lot.  There are players that never made it either that we never heard of.   you have to work hard have talent and have some luck on your side.


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## Fact (Jun 23, 2019)

This thread is making me sick. You have the parent whose kid made the team on one side, a parent of a kid that should have made the team but for geography and a parent whose kid picked a path that is now making them wonder what if.

All this proves is how biased and f's up US Soccer is and that clubs and people in power (control of fields) only care about themselves, their kids and their pocket book.  Hell, I've heard that a kid on a very gifted team is not even close to being the best player on their team but made the YNT because their parents are well connected to US Soccer and the coaches.  

I am not sure all of the sources of funding US Soccer receives to fund these youth teams; are they potentially exposing themselves to a class action lawsuit, especially from kids that don't live in DA territory?

Everyone's whose kids make the team should be proud of their accomplishments, but it just feels like half the competition in the foot race was cut off at the knees and how can anyone feel happy about that?


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## Ellejustus (Jun 23, 2019)

Fact said:


> This thread is making me sick. You have the parent whose kid made the team on one side, a parent of a kid that should have made the team but for geography and a parent whose kid picked a path that is now making them wonder what if.
> 
> All this proves is how biased and f's up US Soccer is and that clubs and people in power (control of fields) only care about themselves, their kids and their pocket book.  Hell, I've heard that a kid on a very gifted team is not even close to being the best player on their team but made the YNT because their parents are well connected to US Soccer and the coaches.
> 
> ...


It helps with college too.


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## timmyh (Jun 23, 2019)

shales1002 said:


> What have you been reading? ECNL cut them . ECNL made the choice for them. Last summer weren’t we on here talking about how Surf’ ECNL teams were being sold on the DPL after they were unexpectedly cut? Hell Real Colorado’s Director just had a recent article no less than two months about they would choose ECNL IF they would give them two teams. The concessions were given last summer for those teams that made the switch.
> 
> This pissing match only hurts the girls. Who gives a sh*t what league you play in. The NATIONAL team should be just that! The best of the best kinda how Surf Cup used to be. Our DD can’t control their geography or their parents finances. It sucks when you tell your kid to be the best and work hard. Colleges know who the best players are, and that’s what this should all be about. Putting together a national team comprised of the best.



No. FC Dallas, Tophat, Real Colorado, etc. were not cut. They were told you can no longer put your B team in ECNL and to choose one or the other. They chose DA.

Some other clubs that had members on the ECNL board or close ties were able to finagle either two teams or promises of a local monopoly if they chose ECNL.
For a multitude of reasons (like 36 player slots instead of 18, not having to staff year round training, etc.), having two ECNL teams instead of just one DA team has been wildly profitable for clubs like Sting, Hawks, etc.

But let's not pretend that decision doesn't come at an expense. Namely that US Soccer believes those ECNL clubs will be producing players that are less likely to reach their full potential than players training and playing in a DA environment (and thus less likely to be able to contribute at the highest levels of play). US Soccer outright said as much in the article linked above.


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## StylinAndProfilin (Jun 23, 2019)

timmyh said:


> No. FC Dallas, Tophat, Real Colorado, etc. were not cut. They were told you can no longer put your B team in ECNL and to choose one or the other. They chose DA.
> 
> Some other clubs that had members on the ECNL board or close ties were able to finagle either two teams or promises of a local monopoly if they chose ECNL.
> For a multitude of reasons (like 36 player slots instead of 18, not having to staff year round training, etc.), having two ECNL teams instead of just one DA team has been wildly profitable for clubs like Sting, Hawks, etc.
> ...


Idk if I buy "much less likely", but for arguments sake I'll agree. Can we agree that worthy players CAN be produced outside of the system? So what we're discussing is the alleged, intentional passing over of qualified players because by choice or by circumstance do not participate in GDA. IMO, if true, it's a shortsighted strategy.


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## MarkM (Jun 23, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Respectfully disagree. USSDA loses Surf and a few others then there is no DA. The domino effect would be massive and strategically ECNL could eliminate some of the other DA clubs by not accepting them. Those that are currently free would probably be most at threat


ECNL already lost Surf to DA.  ECNL should have gone after Blues, but Blues is now tied to FC Golden State.  The affiliation keeps the Blues stable and likely keeps Blues in DA.  There are no other targets left for ECNL in SoCal.


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## MarkM (Jun 23, 2019)

Dubs said:


> You make it seem like ECNL gives you all this time and flexibility.... Like it's some league for kids with other interests?  What are you talking about?  It requires a similar amount of time/effort as DA, but it also offers HS soccer and doesn't have same rules.  I my DD's case, there is not time for other sports, activities and or vacations.  Not sure why you made that statement.


There are DA kids playing other sports; some at a very high level.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jun 23, 2019)

MarkM said:


> There are DA kids playing other sports; some at a very high level.


Yup, I have two friends whose kids are top notch runners.


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## timmyh (Jun 23, 2019)

StylinAndProfilin said:


> Idk if I buy "much less likely", but for arguments sake I'll agree. Can we agree that worthy players CAN be produced outside of the system? So what we're discussing is the alleged, intentional passing over of qualified players because by choice or by circumstance do not participate in GDA. IMO, if true, it's a shortsighted strategy.


For sure I agree that it can happen. And to be clear, I am not staying my opinion, but simply what appears to the obvious opinion of US Soccer.  They clearly  believe that they have found that boys players who are most capable of reaching their fullest potential and are most able to compete at an international level are almost exclusively at developed in a DA environment (or at  an international youth academy).  

They believe the same will be true eventually with the girls. 

As for my own opinion, I happen to probably agree that girls who train and play in a DA environment year round will better reach their fullest potential than those that don't.  (Just like it has been proven true with the boys.) I think that will become apparent in which girls ultimately are able to be most impactful bot which both college and at an international level.  (Just like had been proven with the boys)  However, I also think the sacrifice to play within those DA restrictions are generally not worth it.   The professional payoff  that exists for men but generally not women isn't worth the opportunity cost of giving up playing high school or other sports for the vast, vast majority of girls.


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## soccer4us (Jun 23, 2019)

timmyh said:


> For sure I agree that it can happen. And to be clear, I am not staying my opinion, but simply what appears to the obvious opinion of US Soccer.  They clearly  believe that they have found that boys players who are most capable of reaching their fullest potential and are most able to compete at an international level are almost exclusively at developed in a DA environment (or at  an international youth academy).
> 
> They believe the same will be true eventually with the girls.
> 
> As for my own opinion, I happen to probably agree that girls who train and play in a DA environment year round will better reach their fullest potential than those that don't.  (Just like it has been proven true with the boys.) I think that will become apparent in which girls ultimately are able to be most impactful bot which both college and at an international level.  (Just like had been proven with the boys)  However, I also think the sacrifice to play within those DA restrictions are generally not worth it.   The professional payoff  that exists for men but generally not women isn't worth the opportunity cost of giving up playing high school or other sports for the vast, vast majority of girls.


Spot on. The main difference is men can earn a good living in this country and especially many others. Women find it very very difficult. If you're not part of the full national team, you're making peanuts basically. Until that changes, it's harder for GDA to say my way or the highway. Unfortunately, I'm not sure clubs in the states will ever make enough money to pay the woman real money. Until then, we can all keep arguing about DA and ECNL


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## Dubs (Jun 24, 2019)

MarkM said:


> There are DA kids playing other sports; some at a very high level.


I'm sure there are.  My only point was that ECNL and DA require pretty much same dedication (depending on how your club operates).


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## MacDre (Jun 24, 2019)

Discuss!

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/82731/us-soccers-mirelle-van-rijbroek-on-da-vs-ecnl.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headline&utm_campaign=21698&hashid=um1et2bfMwBNz_YkSjuv2YGfzpE


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## soccer4us (Jun 24, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Discuss!
> 
> https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/82731/us-soccers-mirelle-van-rijbroek-on-da-vs-ecnl.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headline&utm_campaign=21698&hashid=um1et2bfMwBNz_YkSjuv2YGfzpE


Good article. I this it's very clear it's going to be US soccer way or the highway. They will not compromise on any of their beliefs. All they care about is the top 1 percent and that won't change. I personally think US soccer should try to help elevate college soccer instead of not caring one bit about it. This would help the overall product especially that late bloomers like a Hallie Mace type. 

Another big factor that would help grow the woman's game in America is not paying non national team players like their working in jail. I believe 16k or so is the average which is a joke. I know it's not on US soccer to care about someone not in their program but until the pay is at least reasonable for everyone who is a pro player in America, it's difficult to mandate everything and have everyone just say yes. ECNL has it's place and will be here to stay for awhile I predict. Also I think they need to get more top coaches into the US soccer program. I've heard from many some of them are just OK when it's supposed to be some of the best in reality. 

Thanks for sharing the insightful article.


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## timmyh (Jun 24, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Discuss!
> 
> https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/82731/us-soccers-mirelle-van-rijbroek-on-da-vs-ecnl.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headline&utm_campaign=21698&hashid=um1et2bfMwBNz_YkSjuv2YGfzpE


I think the most interesting and relevant quote in the article that sheds light on the DA vs ECNL tug of war was this:
"ECNL is a league, while the DA is a program designed to produce world-class players."


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## Ellejustus (Jun 24, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Discuss!
> 
> https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/82731/us-soccers-mirelle-van-rijbroek-on-da-vs-ecnl.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headline&utm_campaign=21698&hashid=um1et2bfMwBNz_YkSjuv2YGfzpE


This makes me sick.....What if  the US Basketball Federation started a new league to compete with AAU and tell everyone no HS Hoops allowed?  They would lose hands down.  No offense, why is she in charge?


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## myself (Jun 24, 2019)

*SA: Can you address a complaint I've heard a lot, which is that U.S. Soccer scouts favor players who are on Development Academy clubs. Specifically, ECNL coaches have accused U.S. Soccer of not picking worthy ECNL players simply because they don't play in the DA.*

*MIRELLE VAN RIJBROEK*: We select the best players and the ones we believe have the most potential. The way we look at players, and monitor and examine their development, is based on the six key qualities.

Our mission and philosophy are our framework. Our mission is: Identify players with the potential to play for youth national teams. Our objectives are: We want to identify top talents nationwide. But we also want members and clubs to set up talent identification in their own community.

We have a player-centered scouting approach. We monitor the development of players over a longer period. This means that we follow a big group of players. We scout games, we scout showcases. Every club and coach has the possibility to recommend talented players. We have a formal platform for this. We also have a proactive way of working. This season we have sent every ECNL, National League and DA club the online recommendation form. Via e-mail on our website talented players can be submitted.

The first step is always that we want a description of the qualities of the player within the moments of the game. We would also like to receive video of games of the player. Based on the information we receive we decide if we are going to watch live games.

Our talent identification managers have contact with different clubs -- from the DA, U.S. Club, U.S. Youth -- and coaches. After every YNT ID Center we do a follow-up to coaches/clubs. It’s a post-communication form in which we inform the coaches on what we have done at the YNT ID Center.

We also try to work together with our members. I have contact with *Tricia Taliaferro, *who is the head of id2, the identification program of U.S. Club. We receive information on the best players. We do the same with U.S. Youth Soccer, ODP. Both U.S. Club and U.S. Youth have their identification program. It makes perfect sense that they share information on their top talents, at YNT level, with us. We have a shared responsibility. It’s impossible in this country to be everywhere. That’s why we work together.

From id2 we had Tricia and *Gerry McKeown* in our Talent Scout License courses and from ODP we had *Chris Duke*.

Furthermore, we share knowledge with clubs and members -- give presentations, etc. -- our mission, philosophy, key qualities, what we are looking for in players, framework on TID, how we monitor and rate players, etc.

------------------------------

This lady sounds like a politician; answering the question without answering the question.


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## vegasguy (Jun 24, 2019)

timmyh said:


> I think the most interesting and relevant quote in the article that sheds light on the DA vs ECNL tug of war was this:
> "ECNL is a league, while the DA is a program designed to produce world-class players."


Why is it relevant.  There are many DA squads doing their own thing and not following a common philosophy or the program.  They are out there to win and not develop.  Sitting on the bench is not development of the game and sitting on the bench does not improve game understanding and vision.  
There are good and great DA squads who are elite and there are really bad DA squads that are not elite.  The same could be said for ECNL.   It can also be said of DA coaches and ECNL coaches across the country.  
Both leagues produce good and average players and both will survive long term and the discussion will roll on.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 24, 2019)

myself said:


> *SA: Can you address a complaint I've heard a lot, which is that U.S. Soccer scouts favor players who are on Development Academy clubs. Specifically, ECNL coaches have accused U.S. Soccer of not picking worthy ECNL players simply because they don't play in the DA.*
> 
> *MIRELLE VAN RIJBROEK*: We select the best players and the ones we believe have the most potential. The way we look at players, and monitor and examine their development, is based on the six key qualities.
> 
> ...


I said the same thing.  The girls over there don't play HS Soccer or college soccer.  99% of the girls here play for college folks.  I'm shocked at what I'm reading.  If we lost today, this thing would get blown up.  No wonder were in this mess.


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## timmyh (Jun 24, 2019)

vegasguy said:


> Why is it relevant.  There are many DA squads doing their own thing and not following a common philosophy or the program.  They are out there to win and not develop.  Sitting on the bench is not development of the game and sitting on the bench does not improve game understanding and vision.
> There are good and great DA squads who are elite and there are really bad DA squads that are not elite.  The same could be said for ECNL.   It can also be said of DA coaches and ECNL coaches across the country.
> Both leagues produce good and average players and both will survive long term and the discussion will roll on.


They are different things, at least in theory and in the eyes of US Soccer. Rightly or wrongly, per the article...

One, ECNL, is a gaming league designed specifically to provide a bunch of traditionally good soccer clubs relatively similar competition and hosts events that historically made it easier for college coaches to see lots of prospects.

The other, DA, is a program designed specifically to maximize the development of the fullest potential of players who choose to participate.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jun 24, 2019)

I don't have any interest on either front but to me it seems like US Soccer wants to make it easy for themselves to scout the best players and looking at academy teams for the best players.  They are basically saying "make it easy on us and just put your best players in the academy teams"

If my daughter was  an excellent player, it seems like both options (DA or ECNL) could work but DA will give her a better chance at playing for the US youth and national teams.   

Personally the goal should be getting girls to get scholarships for college and the US National call up would be just extra special.  There is no financial gain in this country for either boys or girls to play pro in the USA.   

You basically need to make $100k or more a year to make it worth while to have your child pursue a career as a professional soccer player.     This is just purely from a financial point of view.


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## timmyh (Jun 24, 2019)

timmyh said:


> They are different things, at least in theory and in the eyes of US Soccer. Rightly or wrongly, per the article...
> 
> One, ECNL, is a gaming league designed specifically to provide a bunch of traditionally good soccer clubs relatively similar competition and hosts events that historically made it easier for college coaches to see lots of prospects.
> 
> The other, DA, is a program designed specifically to maximize the development of the fullest potential of players who choose to participate.


...and I think it is interesting that she doesn't say that 2 MUST be exclusive of 1.  That is at least an opening that provides some hope for them getting along for the benefit of players and families in the future.


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## myself (Jun 24, 2019)

Ellejustus said:


> I said the same thing.  The girls over there don't play HS Soccer or college soccer.  99% of the girls here play for college folks.  I'm shocked at what I'm reading.  If we lost today, this thing would get blown up.  No wonder were in this mess.


The message I got from her was that moving forward the goal of DA is to produce professional/international players. That's it. To the exclusion of everything else. Your daughter wants to go to college so that she has something to fall back on instead of that lucrative $40k NWSL contract? Too bad!

I'm not sure if it's bad people skills or arrogance, but it seems strange to come in an declare "my way or the highway" to people who feel they have a stake in the current success of the WNT (colleges and ECNL). On the men's side there is no track record of success, so heavy handed tactics on that side are more likely to go unchallenged or unquestioned.


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## timbuck (Jun 24, 2019)

Will be interesting to see how the women’s game evolves over the next few years.  European clubs are starting to recognize and pump money into women’s leagues.  
To her point in the article-  the college game likely won’t prepare players for the level that is coming.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 24, 2019)

myself said:


> The message I got from her was that moving forward the goal of DA is to produce professional/international players. That's it. To the exclusion of everything else. Your daughter wants to go to college so that she has something to fall back on instead of that lucrative $40k NWSL contract? Too bad!
> 
> I'm not sure if it's bad people skills or arrogance, but it seems strange to come in an declare "my way or the highway" to people who feel they have a stake in the current success of the WNT (colleges and ECNL). On the men's side there is no track record of success, so heavy handed tactics on that side are more likely to go unchallenged or unquestioned.[/QUOT





timbuck said:


> Will be interesting to see how the women’s game evolves over the next few years.  European clubs are starting to recognize and pump money into women’s leagues.
> To her point in the article-  the college game likely won’t prepare players for the level that is coming.


Show the girls the money and I'm sure many would go for it


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## wc_baller (Jun 24, 2019)

Sacrifice a chance at a college degree for the possibility to play professional soccer and earn less than than a Starbucks barista, and maybe just maybe have a long distance shot at making the full US National team. Where do I sign my pride and joy up for this (NOT)?


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## timbuck (Jun 24, 2019)

That’s the state of the game today.  Within the next World Cup cycle or 2-  there will be other leagues that pay women more.  Or the NWSL will need to pay more to compete. 
Maybe not Ronaldo money.  But I’m guessing we’ll see pro women across the world earning low 6 figure incomes. 
Add in a few Hulu commercials and it’s a good living that might outweigh a college degreee.


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## timmyh (Jun 24, 2019)

myself said:


> The message I got from her was that moving forward the goal of DA is to produce professional/international players.


A minor quibble as I think it is a fine but important distinction...The goal of DA programming is not, as you say, to produce "professional" players. The goal of DA programming is to create a platform that maximizes the development of the players who choose to participate.

It shouldn't need to also be pointed out, but US Soccer believes (as does every other soccer-playing country in the world) that creating an environment for the sole purpose of increasing the likelihood that players reach their fullest soccer potential also is more likely to spit out world class players.

It also shouldn't need to be pointed out that making the personal sacrifices required to participate in such a program isn't for everyone.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 24, 2019)

timbuck said:


> That’s the state of the game today.  Within the next World Cup cycle or 2-  there will be other leagues that pay women more.  Or the NWSL will need to pay more to compete.
> Maybe not Ronaldo money.  But I’m guessing we’ll see pro women across the world earning low 6 figure incomes.
> Add in a few Hulu commercials and it’s a good living that might outweigh a college degreee.





timmyh said:


> A minor quibble as I think it is a fine but important distinction...The goal of DA programming is not, as you say, to produce "professional" players. The goal of DA programming is to create a platform that maximizes the development of the players who choose to participate.
> 
> It shouldn't need to also be pointed out, but US Soccer believes (as does every other soccer-playing country in the world) that creating an environment for the sole purpose of increasing the likelihood that players reach their fullest soccer potential also is more likely to spit out world class players.
> 
> It also shouldn't need to be pointed out that making the personal sacrifices required to participate in such a program isn't for everyone.


In Socal this is a joke.  It's so watered down.  The best are not playing the best.  Too many teams as many have said.  Don't forget little Sally has to start 25% of the time.  That's a huge problem. Way too many Sally's in SoCal.  It's simple IMO.  US Soccer can partner with Surf (SD, OC and LA) and then give Legends the I.E.  4 teams (sorry Beach and Real SoCal).  Now you have something.  Best of the best.  Fully funded by both club and US Soccer.  Little Sally will be no longer.  You will have true battles at practice and the international rules will make more sense.  This league (development program) in SoCal is for da birds.


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## myself (Jun 24, 2019)

timmyh said:


> A minor quibble as I think it is a fine but important distinction...The goal of DA programming is not, as you say, to produce "professional" players. The goal of DA programming is to create a platform that maximizes the development of the players who choose to participate.
> 
> It shouldn't need to also be pointed out, but US Soccer believes (as does every other soccer-playing country in the world) that creating an environment for the sole purpose of increasing the likelihood that players reach their fullest soccer potential also is more likely to spit out world class players.
> 
> It also shouldn't need to be pointed out that making the personal sacrifices required to participate in such a program isn't for everyone.


I agree with your statement. The major complaint over the last few pages was that qualified ECNL girls were being passed over in favor of DA girls. So I suppose it depends on what US Soccer sees as the purpose of the USYNT? Is it to pick the best players regardless of platform? Or is it to pick the best players that have chosen to participate in their "program"? And if it's the latter, why are they deliberately and willfully choosing to ignore players that develop outside of the program? How does that help the program as a whole?

I have no experience with this, does US Soccer reach out to top ECNL players to play DA? In the article she says that they accept player recommendations from other programs. If they identify someone they think is truly a 1%'er and not just roster filler, what efforts are taken to bring that player into the program?


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## Woobie06 (Jun 24, 2019)

Ellejustus said:


> In Socal this is a joke.  It's so watered down.  The best are not playing the best.  Too many teams as many have said.  Don't forget little Sally has to start 25% of the time.  That's a huge problem. Way too many Sally's in SoCal.  It's simple IMO.  US Soccer can partner with Surf (SD, OC and LA) and then give Legends the I.E.  4 teams (sorry Beach and Real SoCal).  Now you have something.  Best of the best.  Fully funded by both club and US Soccer.  Little Sally will be no longer.  You will have true battles at practice and the international rules will make more sense.  This league (development program) in SoCal is for da birds.


I don’t have kids in any of those clubs, but both clubs - RSC and Beach have kids in training camps, National Pool, and YNT (and are local products) at various levels   As does most every current DA Club...I don’t know where you live, but eliminating teams/geography would make it impossible to get some of the deserving kids to training unless you had a helicopter or jet-pack...try getting from Woodland Hills to Pasadena for training at 6PM...just saying...I agree with you that less is more and fully funded by US Soccer would be optimal if it can be worked out, but my opinion is you would have to offer a residence program otherwise getting kids to training would be near impossible based on the density of So Cal if consolidation was the goal.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 24, 2019)

Woobie06 said:


> I don’t have kids in any of those clubs, but both clubs - RSC and Beach have kids in training camps, National Pool, and YNT (and are local products) at various levels   As does most every current DA Club...I don’t know where you live, but eliminating teams/geography would make it impossible to get some of the deserving kids to training unless you had a helicopter or jet-pack...try getting from Woodland Hills to Pasadena for training at 6PM...just saying...I agree with you that less is more and fully funded by US Soccer would be optimal if it can be worked out, but my opinion is you would have to offer a residence program otherwise getting kids to training would be near impossible based on the density of So Cal if consolidation was the goal.


It was with much sarcasm my friend......4 teams only.


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## Dubs (Jun 24, 2019)

timmyh said:


> They are different things, at least in theory and in the eyes of US Soccer. Rightly or wrongly, per the article...
> 
> One, ECNL, is a gaming league designed specifically to provide a bunch of traditionally good soccer clubs relatively similar competition and hosts events that historically made it easier for college coaches to see lots of prospects.
> 
> The other, DA, is a program designed specifically to maximize the development of the fullest potential of players who choose to participate.


There in lies the rub.  US Soccer doesn't do jack S@#t when it comes to a streamlined curriculum that is consistent and enforced among its clubs.   Bottom line is clubs do things their way and DA is again just a label with some rules different from ECNL that "differentiate" it from ECNL.  The DA is "designed" for US Soccer to control the club soccer landscape.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 24, 2019)

Dubs said:


> There in lies the rub.  US Soccer doesn't do jack S@#t when it comes to a streamlined curriculum that is consistent and enforced among its clubs.   Bottom line is clubs do things their way and DA is again just a label with some rules different from ECNL that "differentiate" it from ECNL.  The DA is "designed" for US Soccer to control the club soccer landscape.


I find her comments condescending


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## Dubs (Jun 24, 2019)

Ellejustus said:


> I find her comments condescending


My comments or Mirelle's?  If Mirelle's I completely agree.  I hate that they count on their constituents just eating their shit.  It is 100% condescending.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 24, 2019)

Dubs said:


> My comments or Mirelle's?  If Mirelle's I completely agree.  I hate that they count on their constituents just eating their shit.  It is 100% condescending.


Her


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## Ellejustus (Jun 24, 2019)

Ellejustus said:


> Her


Pioneer coaches=old school and don't know poop like the Euros do.  Please........We need better everything but don't take over a freaking league so you can make our SoCal girls Euro players............What about fun, beach, sun, surfing, sking........oh, you want all the girls to do Euro style.  I'm sorry but this is getting so lame.


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## timmyh (Jun 24, 2019)

Ellejustus said:


> We need better everything but don't take over a freaking league so you can make our SoCal girls Euro players............What about fun, beach, sun, surfing, sking........oh, you want all the girls to do Euro style.  I'm sorry but this is getting so lame.


I think you are missing the point that US Soccer is making.  Again, rightly or wrongly they are saying...

There are plenty of leagues for girls who want sun, skiing, and surfing. Some of them consist of really good players (like ECNL). Nobody is taking any of that away from them. Such platforms will always exist. Such platforms will always produce college players. Such platforms will generally require additional outside influence (such as private training) in order for a player to maximize their potential. However even then the lack of playing with/against the very best who are on a different Developmental platform will lead to stilted speed-of-play.

However there is now a platform for girls who would instead prefer to spend those hours maximizing how good of a soccer player they can possibly become. That didn't exist before in the US and it was clear that the places in the world where it did exist were "catching us." Thus they have created the DA and is requirements and specific programming.

At least, that appears to be the US Soccer THEORY that has proven to be generally true on the boys side and in many places internationally.

I agree with the above poster who questions whether or not the utopian DA platform is actually being implemented and indeed whether or not it is really possible to fully implement for girls. However I think we are separating the way things actually are vs the way US Soccer wants things to be.  Their statements and actions are telling us what they want it to be, and the logic behind it is sound albeit possibly unrealistic.

I feel like I have been the DA mouthpiece here lately, and nothing is further from the truth. I am not really a fan.  However I do feel I have a pretty good idea of US Soccer's position on these things and purple seen to be mischaracterizing it, often purposefully. It really isn't hard to figure out.


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## Soccer43 (Jun 24, 2019)

Having personal experience in the DA I can tell you that her "theory" and DA "philosophy" is not consistently applied in all DA clubs/teams.  What she is saying is not really happening in several club environments.  I also think there is a cultural issue here - US Soccer is now being run almost exclusively by foreign nationals and often do not seem to understand American culture and values.  College and education is valued and available in US.  This is not the case in other countries so they do not think college has any value or purpose.  I think that is a shame.


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## timbuck (Jun 24, 2019)

As other countries start to develop better female players-  will college scouts start looking overseas for players to gobble up those coveted partial scholarships?


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## Soccer43 (Jun 24, 2019)

timbuck said:


> As other countries start to develop better female players-  will college scouts start looking overseas for players to gobble up those coveted partial scholarships?


They already do - have you looked at the new recruits alone for 2019 at the top college programs?  If college is crap and useless for soccer then why are so many foreign players jumping at the chance to come to America and play in college - from Japan, China, Sweden, England, Sweden, etc - the list goes on.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Jun 24, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> They already do - have you looked at the new recruits alone for 2019 at the top college programs?  If college is crap and useless for soccer then why are so many foreign players jumping at the chance to come to America and play in college - from Japan, China, Sweden, England, Sweden, etc - the list goes on.


Free Education and the Opportunity to study abroad?


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## soccer4us (Jun 24, 2019)

timbuck said:


> As other countries start to develop better female players-  will college scouts start looking overseas for players to gobble up those coveted partial scholarships?


Check out Florida State's roster. National champs and always handful of foreign players. This isn't uncommon but becoming more frequent. Believe or not USSF, some players actually care about getting a degree. Maybe that degree will get someone paid more than 20k a year?


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## Surf Zombie (Jun 25, 2019)

soccer4us said:


> Check out Florida State's roster. National champs and always handful of foreign players. This isn't uncommon but becoming more frequent. Believe or not USSF, some players actually care about getting a degree. Maybe that degree will get someone paid more than 20k a year?


FSU grad here. We were just in Tallahassee last summer.  Soccer facility is insane.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jun 25, 2019)

Let’s also keep in mind that if we want to follow the European way of soccer, this may not work for our kids.  Just look at the best academies in Europe, their  youth players need to leave their homes and live and breadth soccer most of the year.    These kids have to sacrifice school and college.   Most end up playing soccer in Eastern Europe with very small salaries. 

I don’t think that most parents in the USA would be willing to do this.  Most girls will not sacrifice this.  We do live in a country that everyone wants to move into.  We have way too many opportunities and freedom that allows our kids (even great  players) to give up soccer so they can pursue college or other sports.   That’s not the case in most of the world.


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## NJSoccer (Jun 25, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Discuss!
> 
> https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/82731/us-soccers-mirelle-van-rijbroek-on-da-vs-ecnl.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headline&utm_campaign=21698&hashid=um1et2bfMwBNz_YkSjuv2YGfzpE



Couple of quotes that were not used so far in the discussion, which provide a hint that US Soccer will next do something at college level:
-- college question 1:

If you want to compete internationally with your national team you have to know and understand what happens internationally and you have to make sure that the development of your top players and the programs you offer are better than any other nation in the world.

For example, if international players from France or Spain at the U-17, U-19, and U-20 level train and play at the highest senior women’s level with the best and against the best, year-around, every day with the ball, 6-8 times a week, play 40 good and competitive games in a season, etc. Compare this for example with the length of the program our players have at college in the same age.
---

--- college question 2

So, for the top 2% players in the United States I could imagine a hybrid model. A year-around performance program that prepares players for international soccer but also helps you to get a degree. This could be in collaboration with college. Or it could also be a different pathway.

College soccer has been very good for the system for many years. It was good in an era when it was advanced compared to soccer programs in the rest of the world. Other countries didn’t have this sort of program and equal opportunities. This has changed and continues to change. Nowadays, to play and compete on the elite international level the college program is not enough anymore. It’s too short. The competition in three months is too many games in a short period. It impacts the physical health of the player. For the top 2% of the players. college soccer will not be good enough anymore in the future
---


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## timbuck (Jun 25, 2019)

Isn't that what the LA Galaxy Boys academy did with high school?  Don't they have some sort of arrangement with Cal State Dominguez Hills where their players get their high school degree while playing full time soccer?  Is that still going on?


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## MacDre (Jun 25, 2019)

NJSoccer said:


> Couple of quotes that were not used so far in the discussion, which provide a hint that US Soccer will next do something at college level:
> -- college question 1:
> 
> If you want to compete internationally with your national team you have to know and understand what happens internationally and you have to make sure that the development of your top players and the programs you offer are better than any other nation in the world.
> ...


My kid started getting attention from Div 1 schools and foreign soccer academies when she was 10 years old.  Believe it or not my experience dealing with US Soccer and the academies have been great.
However, the NCAA is the problem.  I think most of the kids that this article is applicable to could enroll in a dual enrollment program and finish college early.  The NCAA is not in favor of dual enrollment for athletes and have told me that if I enroll my kid full time her “eligibility clock” will start ticking.  I was advised for her to take 11 units or less to give her time to grow.
I don’t see the NCAA and US Soccer collaborating on this issue anytime soon.


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## Janie270 (Jun 25, 2019)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Let’s also keep in mind that if we want to follow the European way of soccer, this may not work for our kids.  Just look at the best academies in Europe, their  youth players need to leave their homes and live and breadth soccer most of the year.    These kids have to sacrifice school and college.   Most end up playing soccer in Eastern Europe with very small salaries.
> 
> I don’t think that most parents in the USA would be willing to do this.  Most girls will not sacrifice this.  We do live in a country that everyone wants to move into.  We have way too many opportunities and freedom that allows our kids (even great  players) to give up soccer so they can pursue college or other sports.   That’s not the case in most of the world.


Have you visited Europe? The level of freedom in Spain, France, Germany, England, etc is the same as the US as are the opportunities.  The whole idea that America is better than everywhere else is just a fallacy.  The difference there is there are a ton of great academies, many within driving distance or a short train ride so you don't completely leave your family behind.  You are implying that those kids don't do school and are only playing soccer and it's simply not true.  In fact, many of them come to the US for school as it allows them to keep playing soccer while getting an education.

I do agree that most parents in the USA wouldn't send their kids away, but the reality, at least on the boys side, is becoming that if you want to play at a high level you have to go to a full time MLS academy.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jun 25, 2019)

Janie270 said:


> Have you visited Europe? The level of freedom in Spain, France, Germany, England, etc is the same as the US as are the opportunities.  The whole idea that America is better than everywhere else is just a fallacy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MakeAPlay (Jun 26, 2019)

Europe has a bunch of small countries with no where near the scale that we have hear.  She makes a lot of assumptions about a culture that is foreign to her.

The US WNT has such a huge pool to draw from that if they got a good coach and unified club, college and professional soccer we will continue to dominate.  Try to do it Euro style with American values will lead to a decline.  My kid loves soccer but she will make more money long term than those national team players with her JD and great connections.


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## Soccer43 (Jun 26, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Europe has a bunch of small countries with no where near the scale that we have hear.  She makes a lot of assumptions about a culture that is foreign to her.
> 
> The US WNT has such a huge pool to draw from that if they got a good coach and unified club, college and professional soccer we will continue to dominate.  Try to do it Euro style with American values will lead to a decline.  My kid loves soccer but she will make more money long term than those national team players with her JD and great connections.


100% correct!!!


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## Ellejustus (Jun 26, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Europe has a bunch of small countries with no where near the scale that we have hear.  She makes a lot of assumptions about a culture that is foreign to her.
> 
> The US WNT has such a huge pool to draw from that if they got a good coach and unified club, college and professional soccer we will continue to dominate.  Try to do it Euro style with American values will lead to a decline.  My kid loves soccer but she will make more money long term than those national team players with her JD and great connections.


How are the college coaches feeling about her comments?  Club soccer is a business in USA and the customers want a scholarship into a great university.  I know some girls who have 4.5 gpa and are good soccer players (sometimes start or come off the bench) getting full rides into major universities.  That's pretty cool.  What is she actually offering our dds?  I don't know anyone getting a pro deal except OM.  Good for her.  But she's giving up a lot too.  What about 18 year olds getting big contracts before college?


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## MacDre (Jun 26, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Europe has a bunch of small countries with no where near the scale that we have hear.  She makes a lot of assumptions about a culture that is foreign to her.
> 
> The US WNT has such a huge pool to draw from that if they got a good coach and unified club, college and professional soccer we will continue to dominate.  Try to do it Euro style with American values will lead to a decline.  My kid loves soccer but she will make more money long term than those national team players with her JD and great connections.


Who would be some potential good coaches?  How would college look under this unified scheme?


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## oh canada (Jul 9, 2019)

I missed the below quote from SoccerNation when it came out last October, but worth posting in this thread as it sheds more light on her philosophy.  My biggest issue with the DA and all-encompassing requirements/dedication is its simply a couple years too early.  Especially now since college coaches can have NO contact before summer going into junior year, asking 13 year olds to make a decision about complete dedication to soccer vs. other sports/activities is premature.  Both my sons and daughter were just starting to discover their interests at 12/13.  Better for DA to start sophomore year in HS, 15yrs.  Especially since the science, yes science, shows that soccer talent/ability really doesn't start to show until 15yrs old, when most players are mature or close to it.  That's science and logic, the below is not...   

*Mirelle van Rijbroek* is the Director of Talent Identification for US Soccer. I asked her to explain US Soccer’s decision to not allow DA players to play for their high school teams.

“Imagine you get into Harvard.  You go to Harvard, and you’re in a very high-level environment. There are big group projects to work on that are crucial to your education. Those projects are going to help you learn how to handle huge stressful situations later in life. But then you want to take a few months off to go to a different school for a while. Think Harvard will be OK with that? You think that’s going to be beneficial to your Harvard education? Furthermore, you’ll be leaving the members of your group without an important member of the team, while you take a few months to go do something else. It’s not fair to the group left behind. Additionally, it’s not going to be good for your own education. You can’t just leave for a few months.”


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## Dubs (Jul 9, 2019)

oh canada said:


> I missed the below quote from SoccerNation when it came out last October, but worth posting in this thread as it sheds more light on her philosophy.  My biggest issue with the DA and all-encompassing requirements/dedication is its simply a couple years too early.  Especially now since college coaches can have NO contact before summer going into junior year, asking 13 year olds to make a decision about complete dedication to soccer vs. other sports/activities is premature.  Both my sons and daughter were just starting to discover their interests at 12/13.  Better for DA to start sophomore year in HS, 15yrs.  Especially since the science, yes science, shows that soccer talent/ability really doesn't start to show until 15yrs old, when most players are mature or close to it.  That's science and logic, the below is not...
> 
> *Mirelle van Rijbroek* is the Director of Talent Identification for US Soccer. I asked her to explain US Soccer’s decision to not allow DA players to play for their high school teams.
> 
> “Imagine you get into Harvard.  You go to Harvard, and you’re in a very high-level environment. There are big group projects to work on that are crucial to your education. Those projects are going to help you learn how to handle huge stressful situations later in life. But then you want to take a few months off to go to a different school for a while. Think Harvard will be OK with that? You think that’s going to be beneficial to your Harvard education? Furthermore, you’ll be leaving the members of your group without an important member of the team, while you take a few months to go do something else. It’s not fair to the group left behind. Additionally, it’s not going to be good for your own education. You can’t just leave for a few months.”


That quote is the stupidest analogy/shit I ever heard... Again, these people espouse whatever BS they want in order to push their agenda and expect everyone to just eat it and follow.  The arrogance is astounding.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2019)

“Imagine you get into Harvard.  You go to Harvard, and you’re in a very high-level environment. There are big group projects to work on that are crucial to your education. Those projects are going to help you learn how to handle huge stressful situations later in life. But then you want to take a few months off to go to a different school for a while. Think Harvard will be OK with that? You think that’s going to be beneficial to your Harvard education? Furthermore, you’ll be leaving the members of your group without an important member of the team, while you take a few months to go do something else. It’s not fair to the group left behind. Additionally, it’s not going to be good for your own education. You can’t just leave for a few months.”[/QUOTE]

I was confused by her comments but I think I decoded it.

"Imagine you dd works hard to be the best she can be.  Plays for a top SoCal team, a high-level environment.  There are big DA Showcases on the horizon that is crucial to your dd education. These games are going to help her learn how to handle huge stressful situations later in life.  But then your dd decided to take a few months off to play HS Soccer.  You think the the DA will be ok with that?  You think your dd is going to be scouted by my scouts?  Furthermore, you'll be leaving your team to go play a horrible game of HS soccer with friends while your true friends play 4 days a week, 10 months out of the year.   Additionally, you will never set foot on a YNT if you don't choose the DA.  You can't play high school soccer for a few months, period!!! 
P.S if you have lot's of $$$ for private school you can do both....wink wink "


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## offtopic (Jul 13, 2019)

I'm new here (my dd plays DA but I really don't care about organizational badges - give me a great coach with connections regardless of that) but would like to chime in from the perspective of organizational practices. While I can't speak to the exact reasons no ECNL players were selected (I believe they were for other age groups?), I could see why, as an organization that follows specific processes, selection would be stacked against non-DA players. Why is that? Well, we can talk about ego (and that typically comes into play for most organizations) but the reality is that DA has structured themselves to control the development and resources of their own players. They can 'ensure' the resources and quality of coaches for the players within the system and as the player moves forward. For example, if you have two relatively similar 04 players - one from DA and one from another organization - US Soccer knows they have a level of control over the development and environment for the DA player but not the other. For all they know or have visibility on, the non-DA player might be assigned a non-certified coach next year on a crappy field, only practice twice a week and play with crappy amateur refs. US Soccer would have no say over that. While the two players are equal now, moving forward they know the development framework for one but the other is a wildcard. So, from these two relatively equal players they will always select the one they have some control/visibility over. If some club they don't control ruins the development of a player going forward toward senior teams then that is a wasted pick. A U-15 YNT selection probably isn't seen only as a reward by them but also a player they can invest in going forward within a developmental framework they have confidence in.

Again, not saying it is right or wrong as that sort of how one interprets what it means to be picked for a YNT, but from an organizational point of view they want some control on the future development of their players. They can't keep track of all non-DA organizations so they can't ensure what happens there. I know last year my dd DA club was audited by DA both in terms of club processes, resources and quality of play. There are DA reps at many league games and these games are review sessions not just for the players but also the club, the coaches, the refs, the fields and so on. All things being relatively equal an organization (of any sort) will always pick what they control. As they move forward my guess is that a non-DA player would just have to be obviously significantly better than their competition to get a spot.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 13, 2019)

Off topic’s opinion makes sense.  It’s like the MLB and their minor league system.   Most players come from this system but they do recruit a standout Cuban, Dominican, Japanese, player outside of this system.


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## Jose has returned (Jul 13, 2019)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Off topic’s opinion makes sense.  It’s like the MLB and their minor league system.   Most players come from this system but they do recruit a standout Cuban, Dominican, Japanese, player outside of this system.


if you have talent they will hear about it and check you out


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