# USMNT - Turning Point?



## MWN (Sep 4, 2019)

The anticipated line up for the US MNT game against Mexico this Friday (9/6/2019) looks like this (Name, (International or MLS), current Transfer Market Value): 

Steffen (I) $5.7M

Dest (I) $684k --- Long (M) $1.71M --- Brooks (I) $17.1M --- Lima (M) $969K

McKennie (I) $22M --- Morales (I) $2.85M

Boyd (I) $1.71M --- Pomykal (M) $912k --- Pulisic (I) $68.4M

Zardes (M) $3.99M​
I'm feeling good that we are now at a turning point.  7 International players v. 4 MLS players.  

We may actually be competitive against Mexico.


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## jpeter (Sep 4, 2019)

MWN said:


> The anticipated line up for the US MNT game against Mexico this Friday (9/6/2019) looks like this (Name, (International or MLS), current Transfer Market Value):
> 
> Steffen (I) $5.7M
> 
> ...


$225million in wages for that crew, I dunno?

My son would tell you he could do a lot better with that kind of money or less FIFA style on the trade market. 

Nice to see some young guns and new blood on the USA let's see how those players develop.


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## MWN (Sep 4, 2019)

The $225M is the Transfer Market Value, not necessarily what the players receive in salary.  Think of it like an estimate of the fair market value of the player.  Some players are making their FMV in wage and some are underpaid and some are overpaid.


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## espola (Sep 4, 2019)

MWN said:


> The $225M is the Transfer Market Value, not necessarily what the players receive in salary.  Think of it like an estimate of the fair market value of the player.  Some players are making their FMV in wage and some are underpaid and some are overpaid.


Who makes that estimate?


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## MWN (Sep 4, 2019)

[QUOTE="espola, post: 285942, member: 3"]Who makes that estimate?[/QUOTE]
I used this, which is crowd-sourced, but surprisingly accurate: https://www.transfermarkt.us/
The transfer value is only estimated and until there is a transfer, nobody knows the current value.  Pulisic's value of 68.4M is actually under the last transaction value of $73.1M, but over the previous $63M offer.


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## jpeter (Sep 4, 2019)

MWN said:


> "espola, post: 285942, member: 3"]Who makes that estimate?
> I used this, which is crowd-sourced, but surprisingly accurate: https://www.transfermarkt.us/
> The transfer value is only estimated and until there is a transfer, nobody knows the current value.  Pulisic's value of 68.4M is actually under the last transaction value of $73.1M, but over the previous $63M offer.


Considering the entire MLS payroll is around $290million for 2019 the trade value of the 7 players mentioned is not a good deal.


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## MWN (Sep 4, 2019)

@jpeter,
Keep in mind that these numbers are only the estimated market value of the players on the US Squad.  If we look at Trinidad-Tobago the market value will be lower, if we look at England, the market value will dwarf the US team.   US Soccer isn't paying this, these guys are showing up because 'Merica and a small paycheck.  National teams don't select players purely on market value, rather, its the coach's philosophy.  This is the first time that I can remember where the International players are more prominent than the MLS wannabes.  Things are looking up.


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## jpeter (Sep 4, 2019)

MWN said:


> @jpeter,
> Keep in mind that these numbers are only the estimated market value of the players on the US Squad.  If we look at Trinidad-Tobago the market value will be lower, if we look at England, the market value will dwarf the US team.   US Soccer isn't paying this, these guys are showing up because 'Merica and a small paycheck.  National teams don't select players purely on market value, rather, its the coach's philosophy.  This is the first time that I can remember where the International players are more prominent than the MLS wannabes.  Things are looking up.


Yeah but the us is still spending a bunch of $$ for not even qualifying. How much does ussf spend on the men's programing each year? 

LAFC the leagues top team has a $14 million dollar payroll and they are likely better vs the national team so we're either not selecting the correct players or spending too much for what we get.  Time to either blow up the program and start over or start producing.


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## texanincali (Sep 6, 2019)

And some say our soccer culture and understanding is improving...

So much I want to type right now, but I am just going to let it go.


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## coachrefparent (Sep 6, 2019)

3-0


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## justneededaname (Sep 7, 2019)

Does Pep Guardiola cry every time he watches Zach Steffen distribute the ball? "I can't believe I bought that guy!"


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## jojosoccer (Sep 7, 2019)

If Mexico would have lost 3-0, the coach would be fired the next day.
Get rid of Berhalter, the sooner the better.
He’s horrible.


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## jpeter (Sep 7, 2019)

What is the USA doing?
https://www-starsandstripesfc-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.starsandstripesfc.com/platform/amp/2019/9/6/20853619/2019-september-friendly-recap-usa-0-3-mexico-if-sisyphus-was-about-a-soccer-team?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ==#aoh=15678712464727&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2019/9/6/20853619/2019-september-friendly-recap-usa-0-3-mexico-if-sisyphus-was-about-a-soccer-team

"It’s just a friendly though, which does raise some questions, I’m sure Wil Trapp was up for this and Gyasi Zardes absolutely was the right call at striker and that I’d have chosen to watch what transpired even if I wasn’t obligated to so I could write this recap. Who wouldn’t want to see two players from the 4th worst team in MLS this year start against Mexico? Of course, the last time these sides met, Gregg Berhalter was out-coached by Tata Martino and did things like use his last sub while down a goal on Daniel Lovitz, so this seems pretty inline with what’s happened before"

USMNT fans’ hopes and dreams were realized when Daniel Lovitz checked into the game for Dest. Perhaps more promising though, (except it wouldn’t be) Zardes was pulled for Sargent in the 67th minute.

Despite playing out of the back not doing much to get the attack going, the US kept at it. Having grown comfortable with the fact that the American attack wasn’t leading to much of anything, Mexico even stepped back a bit. Still, they managed a coup de grace when a backpass left Steffen with the option to send it long or play it out of his goal and, despite the team being way too disorganized for that to be the right choice, that’s what he did. Erick Gutierrez pounced on Steffen’s bad pass and made the game 2-0."

" The game ended as the US lost 3-0 to Mexico in the House that Mark Sanchez built. It was an overall exasperating game - from the lineup to the team’s inability to adjust to what Mexico was doing to the team repeatedly making the same mistakes throughout the game. A process is one thing, but stubbornly clinging to something that is failing won’t help the team get to where it needs to be"


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## Kicknit22 (Sep 7, 2019)

Time to scrap the whole thing!  Nobody is watching anyway.  They suck.  Nothing to get excited about whatsoever.


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## watfly (Sep 7, 2019)

Well that was certainly a turn in the wrong direction.  Worst result against Mexico in 10 years.  I think you have to give Berhalter some more time, but there aren't a whole lot of reasons to be optimistic.  While I think the idea of having more European trained players is good in theory I'm not sure its what is going to turn this program around (I'm not claiming that MLS players are the better option, I'm just saying that the league may not matter).  Klinsmann pushed that concept for 5 years and it didn't bear any fruit.   His European, dual citizen, golden child was Julian Green who turned out to pretty much be a bust.  Something is fundamentally wrong with how US Soccer is developing the men's national team.  I don't know what it is, but I know US Soccer's arrogance is not helping the situation.


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## jojosoccer (Sep 7, 2019)

Klinsmann did bear fruit.
Beat Portugal  in Confederation Cup and played in the finals.
Played in WC in Brazil.
Got out of pool play in Brazil
and played OT to Belgium when Wondoloski missed a sitter to move on to the next round. 
We were much, much further with Klinsmann.


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## watfly (Sep 7, 2019)

jojosoccer said:


> Klinsmann did bear fruit.
> Beat Portugal  in Confederation Cup and played in the finals.
> Played in WC in Brazil.
> Got out of pool play in Brazil
> ...


For fruit I was thinking a big ole pineapple, not a little kumquat.  I'm fairly confident that it was Spain they beat in the Confederations Cup and that Bradley was the coach.  Klinsmann's teams are probably better than what we have know but that's a pretty low bar.


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## Kicknit22 (Sep 7, 2019)

watfly said:


> I don't know what it is, but I know US Soccer's arrogance is not helping the situation.


What have we ever done to be arrogant about? If you were talking about the women’s side, sure. Plenty to warrant some arrogance. But the men’s side?  Head scratcher!


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## watfly (Sep 7, 2019)

Kicknit22 said:


> What have we ever done to be arrogant about? If you were talking about the women’s side, sure. Plenty to warrant some arrogance. But the men’s side?  Head scratcher!


Not the teams, US Soccer as an organization, or I should say its management.


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## Kicknit22 (Sep 8, 2019)

watfly said:


> Not the teams, US Soccer as an organization, or I should say its management.


Oh, okay. I get where you’re coming from.  The arrogance of having an organization that is making tons of money, regardless of the success of the product they produce.  Simple minded people, coming from a biz point of view.  Thought and investment into better development of the product is not priority.


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## espola (Sep 8, 2019)

Kicknit22 said:


> Oh, okay. I get where you’re coming from.  The arrogance of having an organization that is making tons of money, regardless of the success of the product they produce.  Simple minded people, coming from a biz point of view.  Thought and investment into better development of the product is not priority.


They are not just a commercial business.  They are a non-profit organization with national goals, supposedly.


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## Kicknit22 (Sep 8, 2019)

espola said:


> They are not just a commercial business.  They are a non-profit organization with national goals, supposedly.


Yep. SUPPOSEDLY.  LOL!


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## Grace T. (Sep 10, 2019)

We really need a decent striker up top.  It makes or breaks the team.  Zardes isn't it.


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## Grace T. (Sep 10, 2019)

p.s. I have no idea what they were doing with Steffen out there.  He was really high which left him vulnerable to a chip but when the error occurred on the back pass or on the 3rd shot he just held there instead of trying to smother the ball.  If you are going to play that high, you have to do it like Neuer does and play sweeper keeper.  Steffen usually plays classically tight against the line.  I can only think it's the US goalkeeper coaches that told him they wanted him there, maybe to support the backpass.  It's not Steffen's style...if you are going to hold there in no man's land you need a keeper like De Gea that's really good with his footblocks.  I haven't seen too much of him but Steffen strikes me as a hands keeper.  Now they are sending him home early???  WTF are they doing back there.


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## jojosoccer (Sep 10, 2019)

I miss strikers like Dempsey and Donovan. Fast and relentless, we are definitely missing a good striker up top.


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## watfly (Sep 10, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> We really need a decent striker up top.


Says 90% of the teams in the world including pro, college and youth teams.   But yes, I agree.


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## Grace T. (Sep 10, 2019)

watfly said:


> Says 90% of the teams in the world including pro, college and youth teams.   But yes, I agree.


Not sure that's accurate.  I'd _like _a great striker up there.  But we _need_ a decent one.


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## Dominic (Oct 15, 2019)

bottom


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## Calisoccer11 (Oct 15, 2019)

Dominic said:


> bottom


That was a very hard game to watch.  My 14 year old predicted that the US would lose 2-0 and he LOVES this team.  The US seemed out of sync, out of sorts, and I'm out of excuses.  I think it's time for the coach to go and maybe it's time for the US to do better at scouting players.  Something has got to change!!!!


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## ToonArmy (Oct 15, 2019)

Maybe we should hire Blues Baker as head coach and go back to putting our biggest and best athletes out there and play long ball and defend and stop trying to play like the rest of the world does when obviously we aren't very good at it. I'm no soccer tactician that's probably a stupid idea.


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## jpeter (Oct 16, 2019)

Another dark day, took 34 years to get this low, when your keeper has the highest rating  you know you have problems:
https://mlsmultiplex.com/2019/10/16/usmnt-vs-canada-player-ratings-another-dark-day/

Can things be fixed in time with the current manager and players he's selecting?


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## baldref (Oct 16, 2019)

It looked like the players won't play for Berhalter. Not buying the system, and he has no intensity. change the coach now, or suffer with this crap for years.


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## Justus (Oct 16, 2019)

ToonArmy said:


> Maybe we should hire Blues Baker as head coach and go back to putting our biggest and best athletes out there and play long ball and defend and stop trying to play like the rest of the world does when obviously we aren't very good at it. I'm no soccer tactician that's probably a stupid idea.


Great insight


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## espola (Oct 16, 2019)

jpeter said:


> Another dark day, took 34 years to get this low, when your keeper has the highest rating  you know you have problems:
> https://mlsmultiplex.com/2019/10/16/usmnt-vs-canada-player-ratings-another-dark-day/
> 
> Can things be fixed in time with the current manager and players he's selecting?


Don't worry.  USSF has a new Player Devlopment program that will produce a world-class USMNT in 10 years or so.


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## oh canada (Oct 16, 2019)

Is it ok to gloat a little?  Soccer fans back home are beaming!

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/usa-vs-canada-score-usmnt-loses-to-canadians-for-first-time-in-34-years-suffers-nations-cup-setback/live/


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## Dos Equis (Oct 16, 2019)

The players did not respect the process that selected him, nor the final selection of Berhalter.  That the role is beyond his abilities has been obvious in nearly every game they have played under him.  The idea that there are not a group of US players capable of playing his style is laughable, given we can all name a lineup of 11 US players who are playing a possession or counterattacking style right now on their club teams.  

So let's look at some questionable lineup calls in this game  -- Roldan, Lovitz, Bradley, Ream -- all turned out to be complete busts making predictable mistakes, and expose Berhalter's lack of soccer intelligence as a coach.  Roldan should have seen the red card in the first half and should be a substitute getting experience, not a starter. Bradley still turns over the ball consistently in our half, something he has done his whole career.  Lovitz would not start on a top MLS team and cannot defend at this level.  Ream has always been smart but too slow to be a world-class center back, not just in speed, but in speed of play.  Did Berhalter not look at Canada's roster before he made his selections, because the mismatches were obvious.  

McKennie was all over the field trying his best to find the ball (when he can control his temper), but Sargent was clearly lost in the system.  Pulisic is proving Lampard correct with his pouty attitude and AYSO-like strategy of trying to dribble past their entire team in the midfield and not passing.  I would still say Long and Morris played well (as well as Steffen). 

They can either bring back Bob Bradley, or find a foreign coach with international experience to take over.  Berhalter has lost this team.


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## jpeter (Oct 16, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Is it ok to gloat a little?  Soccer fans back home are beaming!
> 
> https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/usa-vs-canada-score-usmnt-loses-to-canadians-for-first-time-in-34-years-suffers-nations-cup-setback/live/


Good for them, they played inspired and clearly more motivated.  Nice to see a program evolving, playing the young guys and getting better.


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## jpeter (Oct 16, 2019)

Dos Equis said:


> The players did not respect the process that selected him, nor the final selection of Berhalter.  That the role is beyond his abilities has been obvious in nearly every game they have played under him.  The idea that there are not a group of US players capable of playing his style is laughable, given we can all name a lineup of 11 US players who are playing a possession or counterattacking style right now on their club teams.
> 
> So let's look at some questionable lineup calls in this game  -- Roldan, Lovitz, Bradley, Ream -- all turned out to be complete busts making predictable mistakes, and expose Berhalter's lack of soccer intelligence as a coach.  Roldan should have seen the red card in the first half and should be a substitute getting experience, not a starter. Bradley still turns over the ball consistently in our half, something he has done his whole career.  Lovitz would not start on a top MLS team and cannot defend at this level.  Ream has always been smart but too slow to be a world-class center back, not just in speed, but in speed of play.  Did Berhalter not look at Canada's roster before he made his selections, because the mismatches were obvious.
> 
> ...


Good insight. 

To me several of these players have no business being on the national team.  Why we keep giving these players like Bradley, Ream, Yedlin, Zardes, and the like so many chances when they have failed soo many time to perform is nuts.   If you been capped so many times yet can't perform why keep calling them back? 

How many chances are too many, 10x or more?   Hold the players accountable and expand the player pool by at least 2x. Go with the players doing well in the present not some past there prime or non performers.  Cut & fill will some players who want it more not some causals like we have now.


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## oh canada (Oct 16, 2019)

jpeter said:


> Good for them, they played inspired and clearly more motivated.  Nice to see a program evolving, playing the young guys and getting better.


Thank you.


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## Kicker4Life (Oct 16, 2019)

Dos Equis said:


> ....Berhalter has lost this team.


Did he ever really have it to lose?


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## espola (Oct 16, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> Did he ever really have it to loose?


Did you mean "too loose" or "to lose"?


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## Grace T. (Oct 16, 2019)

Great article here explaining why this is happening.  Berhalter is enamored with his pressing/possession based soccer approach.  But the key problems: 1) the players he's selected don't play this system (the MLS is much more direct and those that know his system like Zardes aren't up to the level of international competition) and 2) the team doesn't have enough time to learn all the set pieces since team practice time is limited (unlike say Spanish tiki-taka teams that all grew up playing with each other in the academies, our players are from the a wide range of clubs and training purposes).  I'd also add that unlike the Spanish US players don't grow up learning this style of play...I still see most youth teams I've observed in Socal reverting to much more direct soccer once the build-out-line gets removed and that's not going to get fixed without major adjustments by US Soccer (not arguing whether possession soccer is a good thing or not or that US Soccer should make such changes....just that the players don't and won't have the background to execute it given the current tendencies in US youth soccer).

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/usmnt-canada-gregg-berhalter


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## Dos Equis (Oct 16, 2019)

jpeter said:


> Good insight.
> 
> To me several of these players have no business being on the national team.  Why we keep giving these players like Bradley, Ream, Yedlin, Zardes, and the like so many chances when they have failed soo many time to perform is nuts.   If you been capped so many times yet can't perform why keep calling them back?
> 
> How many chances are too many, 10x or more?   Hold the players accountable and expand the player pool by at least 2x. Go with the players doing well in the present not some past there prime or non performers.  Cut & fill will some players who want it more not some causals like we have now.


Agreed, though keep Yedlin but play him outside midfield, not on the back line.  His speed, and his ability to get to the line and deliver a cross is an asset.  His tendency to be caught upfield, or on the wrong side of his attacker, makes him a liability at outside back in the absence of two strong center backs.  I do not mind a mix of experience with youth, but that experience should  be players still at the top of their games. 

The two best field players for the US, who showed the most desire, fight and ability, were products of club, high school and college soccer (Long and Morris).  Exactly what kind of player is the USSDA trying to produce?  Show me the results.  We produced better players 15-25 years ago.  They definitely had more heart and will to win back then.


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## Gooolazo (Oct 16, 2019)

The USMNT should pick up coach Matias Almeyda SJ Quakes.


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## Dos Equis (Oct 16, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/usmnt-canada-gregg-berhalter


Great article, but how do you explain a Canada team, with more MLS players and supposedly less overall talent, and facing the same challenges, being able to build from the back, connect through our midfield, and play some excellent attacking soccer? 

Plain and simple -- better coaching and a better team culture.  

They talked trash before the game, and lived up to it.  

They lost one of their best players in the first 10 minutes in Kaye, and their substitute, with 19 MLS caps to his name over 2 seasons and no senior international experience, played better than any of our midfielders.


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## oh canada (Oct 16, 2019)

First the Raptors, then Andreescu beats Serena Williams in the US Open Final, now soccer...we're on a roll 

Btw, the kid who scored Canada's first goal, Davies, plays for Bayern Munich.  18 years old.

Rematch mid November in Orlando.  That game will finally have some meaning.


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## eastbaysoccer (Oct 16, 2019)

The results at in .  The DA has failed.  GDA will fail.  All needs to be blown up and reset button pushed to include termination of ALL staff.   If the new regime feels any of the old staff can contribute then they can be rehired.  

We need to take many steps backwards to move forward at this point.


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## pulguita (Oct 16, 2019)

Dos Equis said:


> Great article, but how do you explain a Canada team, with more MLS players and supposedly less overall talent, and facing the same challenges, being able to build from the back, connect through our midfield, and play some excellent attacking soccer?
> 
> Plain and simple -- better coaching and a better team culture.
> 
> ...


Thank you!  California has more people than the entire country of Canada. Yet they can put a quality team together.  Quality coaching.   But then again Map and I have been saying for years just build the Nat teams out of CA kids with some excellent coaches and we will make some progress.  US Soccer is too PC with their east coast bias and geographically inclusive selections.  If you want to be geographically pc put teams together from all 4 regions, have them play and then select the best.  Oh wait that was ODP and Cal South always spanked everyone.  And  get some flippin coaches that know what the hell they are doing.


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## eastbaysoccer (Oct 16, 2019)

Perhaps two squads that are coached in two different philosophies:

1) the big fast kids that play direct
And
2) the quick, high soccer IQ ones that play possession.


If Iceland can field a good team w a population of 500k,  this could work with 400 million people in the USA.


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## oh canada (Oct 16, 2019)

Son, go play soccer.  I don't care that...

The national team sucks and has no role models.

The professional league pays jack.

The college game will slowly be eliminated because schools will not be able to afford it with the new $$ laws.

You will have to move to Europe as a child if you are any good and have any interest in a soccer "future".

The DA requires you to practice 4x/week and prevents you from playing any other high school sports

What else am I missing?


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## espola (Oct 16, 2019)

oh canada said:


> The college game will slowly be eliminated because schools will not be able to afford it with the new $$ laws.


I don't know what that means.


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## Justus (Oct 17, 2019)

eastbaysoccer said:


> Perhaps two squads that are coached in two different philosophies:
> 
> 1) the big fast kids that play direct
> And
> ...





eastbaysoccer said:


> The results at in .  The DA has failed.  GDA will fail.  All needs to be blown up and reset button pushed to include termination of ALL staff.   If the new regime feels any of the old staff can contribute then they can be rehired.
> 
> We need to take many steps backwards to move forward at this point.


 
 Grant Wahl 

*✔* @GrantWahl  

"The man who will make the decision on Gregg Berhalter’s future as USMNT coach (Earnie Stewart) is very likely to soon report to ... Jay Berhalter, Gregg’s brother."  

It's not what you know or how you play soccer in America, it's pay to play and rubbing elbows contest   Why has MB been CM for so long?  We have so many good soccer players being told DA or else.  Look at the leadership at the top of US Soccer.  Look at the leadership at all the Big DA Clubs.  Look at the Leadership of the coaches.  Look at parents behavior.  This is the most divisive sport in America.  We talk about TEAM, ya right....


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## soccerobserver (Oct 17, 2019)

This writer says Berhalter is trying to implement a system more like American football where you have plays and passes mapped out ahead of time. The reason the players looked so unsure and hesitant is because they do not know his system and are never going to have enough time to learn the “plays”. So when they play they revert to tendencies that Mexico and now  Canada can foresee. Here is the article in case anyone is interested:   https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soccer/why-gregg-berhalter-is-doomed-to-fail-as-the-head-coach-of-the-usmnt/ar-AAISg2Y


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## jpeter (Oct 17, 2019)

soccerobserver said:


> This writer says Berhalter is trying to implement a system more like American football where you have plays and passes mapped out ahead of time. The reason the players looked so unsure and hesitant is because they do not know his system and are never going to have enough time to learn the “plays”. So when they play they revert to tendencies that Mexico and now  Canada can foresee. Here is the article in case anyone is interested:   https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soccer/why-gregg-berhalter-is-doomed-to-fail-as-the-head-coach-of-the-usmnt/ar-AAISg2Y


Berhalter is talking out of both sides, one minute he says we (MNT)  don't develop players the clubs do yet he's banking on his system they don't teach. 

He doesn't have a real system or style because he's depending on players to "learn" on the fly some ideas he has but few real understand or buy into.  Can anyone including him tell us what his system, identity, or style of play really is for the USA?


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## Justus (Oct 17, 2019)

soccerobserver said:


> This writer says Berhalter is trying to implement a system more like American football where you have plays and passes mapped out ahead of time. The reason the players looked so unsure and hesitant is because they do not know his system and are never going to have enough time to learn the “plays”. So when they play they revert to tendencies that Mexico and now  Canada can foresee. Here is the article in case anyone is interested:   https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soccer/why-gregg-berhalter-is-doomed-to-fail-as-the-head-coach-of-the-usmnt/ar-AAISg2Y


This is like all the TC drills and all the videos you see of kids all by themselves looking like Pele.  No crazy ass defenders attacking with Speed, Strength, Skill, Tactical and Developmental and intense IQ coming at you with a "ardiente deseo de ganar" A great place to start with the blowing up and then the re-build is to hire some Latinos up at the top and maybe look at hiring a really good Latino coach    The girls have made a huge gamble going Euro model. Now  No HS Sports, 100% allegiance to everything DA and no outside distractions for teenage girls if you know what I mean.


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## baldref (Oct 17, 2019)

espola said:


> I don't know what that means.


you don't know what day it is or how to tie your shoes anymore either.


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## espola (Oct 17, 2019)

baldref said:


> you don't know what day it is or how to tie your shoes anymore either.


Does that mean you can explain it?


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## oh canada (Oct 17, 2019)

espola said:


> Does that mean you can explain it?


there's an entire thread on it and i believe you were part of it:

http://socalsoccer.com/threads/ca-college-athletes-can-now-get-paid.17981/


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## espola (Oct 17, 2019)

oh canada said:


> there's an entire thread on it and i believe you were part of it:
> 
> http://socalsoccer.com/threads/ca-college-athletes-can-now-get-paid.17981/


Nothing in the new California law requires any college to spend more money.


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## soccerobserver (Oct 21, 2019)

Here is yesterday's article from the San Diego Tribune that sums up the politics behind the USMNT:   https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sports-columnists/story/2019-10-20/zeigler-soccer-federation-president-carlos-cordeiro-mls-canada-gregg-jay-berhalter-national-team

They also give a nod to Justus' concern about the lack of any idea of diversity in scouting and management coaching etc.


----------



## watfly (Oct 21, 2019)

soccerobserver said:


> Here is yesterday's article from the San Diego Tribune that sums up the politics behind the USMNT:   https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sports-columnists/story/2019-10-20/zeigler-soccer-federation-president-carlos-cordeiro-mls-canada-gregg-jay-berhalter-national-team


Pretty difficult to disagree with anything in that article. The arrogant incompetence of US Soccer is pretty astonishing.


----------



## jpeter (Oct 21, 2019)

watfly said:


> Pretty difficult to disagree with anything in that article. The arrogant incompetence of US Soccer is pretty astonishing.


Great piece of writing, nails us soccer


----------



## espola (Oct 21, 2019)

watfly said:


> Pretty difficult to disagree with anything in that article. The arrogant incompetence of US Soccer is pretty astonishing.


It reaches down to the local levels where organizations supposedly empowered with strengthening the game instead occupy their time finding reasons why players and teams should not play.


----------



## Justus (Oct 21, 2019)

watfly said:


> Pretty difficult to disagree with anything in that article. The arrogant incompetence of US Soccer is pretty astonishing.


Time for a re-boot.  Headquarters in Chicago is having some issues.  Dirty pay to play system=Disqualifications to participate in the game we all love to play and watch.  We need some Red Cards handed out like, yesterday.  This sport is dirty folks.  Sorry to say but it is   We just had three rich parents from SoCal confess and plead guilty to paying "Mr Middle Man Dude" $500,000, $400,00 and $400,000 respectfully to just get Kiddos admitted to top schools.  That is a lot of coin to pay to look good I tell ya.  College is so important and valuable to some I guess...


----------



## Dos Equis (Oct 22, 2019)

soccerobserver said:


> Here is yesterday's article from the San Diego Tribune that sums up the politics behind the USMNT:   https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sports-columnists/story/2019-10-20/zeigler-soccer-federation-president-carlos-cordeiro-mls-canada-gregg-jay-berhalter-national-team
> 
> They also give a nod to Justus' concern about the lack of any idea of diversity in scouting and management coaching etc.


Another great article.   Hard to defend the mess that is US Soccer.  

In the end, diversity does not come down to a committee or some token scouting/coaching appointments, it starts with making and keeping youth soccer affordable and enjoyable for as long as possible.  See the correlation between the age kids quit and the age club starts to become a real factor (between age 9 and 10) and soccer becomes less affordable?   Keeping participation levels high should not be at odds with US Soccer's goals of producing world class players, but they have convinced themselves and most parents that it is.  Join a club early, go to the USSDA teams at U12, do not play pick-up, high school, or college, just keep pouring money into unnecessary travel and mediocre training, playing games among a decreasing pool of talented players in some anonymous place in front of no one, until you realize there is no World Cup in your future (even if you make the USMNT).   

The roster of the team most likely to win the MLS Cup this year is mostly foreign players. When will US Soccer realize that the MLS interests and theirs are not the same?


----------



## soccerobserver (Oct 22, 2019)

Dos Equis said:


> Another great article.   Hard to defend the mess that is US Soccer.
> 
> In the end, diversity does not come down to a committee or some token scouting/coaching appointments, it starts with making and keeping youth soccer affordable and enjoyable for as long as possible.  See the correlation between the age kids quit and the age club starts to become a real factor (between age 9 and 10) and soccer becomes less affordable?   Keeping participation levels high should not be at odds with US Soccer's goals of producing world class players, but they have convinced themselves and most parents that it is.  Join a club early, go to the USSDA teams at U12, do not play pick-up, high school, or college, just keep pouring money into unnecessary travel and mediocre training, playing games among a decreasing pool of talented players in some anonymous place in front of no one, until you realize there is no World Cup in your future (even if you make the USMNT).
> 
> The roster of the team most likely to win the MLS Cup this year is mostly foreign players. When will US Soccer realize that the MLS interests and theirs are not the same?


@Dos Equis you make a great but subtle point about the critical importance and impact of integrating soccer into high school and into the culture. On Saturday I went to a large high school football game in Socal and it was quite a spectacle - a carnival even- led by a literal army of a few hundred band members, flag bearers, drill team members, cheer leaders and carloads of parents to cheer and support the non-football player participants. Football's genius is that it has tied many communities into it that would otherwise not care a whit about football. The USSF could learn something here...


----------



## outside! (Oct 22, 2019)

soccerobserver said:


> @Dos Equis you make a great but subtle point about the critical importance and impact of integrating soccer into high school and into the culture. On Saturday I went to a large high school football game in Socal and it was quite a spectacle - a carnival even- led by a literal army of a few hundred band members, flag bearers, drill team members, cheer leaders and carloads of parents to cheer and support the non-football player participants. Football's genius is that it has tied many communities into it that would otherwise not care a whit about football. The USSF could learn something here...


Then again, name a high school that has ever made an effort to send the band to any sporting event other than football and basketball. The outsized support that HS football gets from school administrators seems like a Title IX violation.


----------



## Soccer43 (Oct 22, 2019)

soccerobserver said:


> @Dos Equis you make a great but subtle point about the critical importance and impact of integrating soccer into high school and into the culture. On Saturday I went to a large high school football game in Socal and it was quite a spectacle - a carnival even- led by a literal army of a few hundred band members, flag bearers, drill team members, cheer leaders and carloads of parents to cheer and support the non-football player participants. Football's genius is that it has tied many communities into it that would otherwise not care a whit about football. The USSF could learn something here...


Oh, but high school soccer is horrible and dangerous .  We can’t encourage that


----------



## Lambchop (Oct 22, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Son, go play soccer.  I don't care that...
> 
> The national team sucks and has no role models.
> 
> ...


DA does not, I repeat, does not prevent you from playing other high school sports.


----------



## outside! (Oct 22, 2019)

Lambchop said:


> DA does not, I repeat, does not prevent you from playing other high school sports.


The single most important thing that would improve our NT perfomances would be if soccer became much more popular. Preventing the best players from playing high school hinders that. US Soccer should be trying to work with the high school soccer system instead of ignoring all that existing infrastructure.


----------



## Soccer43 (Oct 22, 2019)

Lambchop said:


> DA does not, I repeat, does not prevent you from playing other high school sports.


The DA may not but some clubs in the DA do have rules against players being involved in any high school sport.


----------



## espola (Oct 22, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> The DA may not but some clubs in the DA do have rules against players being involved in any high school sport.


And the DA practice and game schedules interfere with any serious effort in another HS sport.


----------



## Justus (Oct 22, 2019)

Lambchop said:


> DA does not, I repeat, does not prevent you from playing other high school sports.


Lambchops, let me help you out a little.  If you're a Full Ride recruit (impact player) on a DA team, then 100% the ynt scouts and the big club doc will say, "no way Susie, you are 100% ours."  Now if your dd is 25% starter (non impact player at this time) and paying thousands of dollars to be on the DA team, then yes, your club doc will say it's ok as long as the $$$$ keep coming   Plus, when I say HS Sports, were talking Varsity sports.  Good luck being a stud impact soccer player full time in the DA 4 days a week, 10 months program and travel all over the USA and play varsity sports and btw, get 4.0.  Oh, and stay out of trouble because the World is Watching!!!


----------



## Dos Equis (Oct 22, 2019)

Lambchop said:


> DA does not, I repeat, does not prevent you from playing other high school sports.


Most sports have become year round, and the ability to participate in other activities is a sacrifice you make willingly.  The USSDA is not unique in this expectation. However, other sports do let their players participate in that chosen sport in HS.  The USSDA effectively does not.

We have two valuable and unique assets in the US -- high school and college education systems that provide the infrastructure and resources to help advance athletics as well.  US Soccer openly opposes participation in athletics in either, and I cannot name another major federation/governing body of another team sport in this country that does this.

There is no evidence US Soccer and its USSDA system has done anything to improve the level of soccer in the US on a relative or an absolute basis in the last 10 years, and plenty of examples of how our game has gone downhill in the same period. Whatever one may argue players have gained in technical/tactical ability has not been implemented on the field, and has been offset by a loss of attitude, heart, teamwork and will to win. The later they tend to teach pretty well in high school and college.  Unfortunately, the results are in.


----------



## Glen (Oct 22, 2019)

outside! said:


> The single most important thing that would improve our NT perfomances would be if soccer became much more popular. Preventing the best players from playing high school hinders that. US Soccer should be trying to work with the high school soccer system instead of ignoring all that existing infrastructure.


Removing the NCAA's arbitrary limitation on men's soccer college scholarships would do more good for soccer in the US than changing any high school or US soccer policy.  That said, I would support the NCAA limiting scholarships for foreign athletes.


----------



## MarkM (Oct 22, 2019)

espola said:


> And the DA practice and game schedules interfere with any serious effort in another HS sport.


If you don't know something, you shouldn't just make it up.


----------



## outside! (Oct 22, 2019)

Glen said:


> Removing the NCAA's arbitrary limitation on men's soccer college scholarships would do more good for soccer in the US than changing any high school or US soccer policy.  That said, I would support the NCAA limiting scholarships for foreign athletes.


While I agree that the NCAA's limit on soccer scholarships is a problem, more kids play high school soccer. I am arguing that increasing soccer's popularity in the US should be job one of US Soccer and high school soccer impacts more players that can grow up to become fans. NCAA soccer problems are a separate discussion unfortunately.


----------



## outside! (Oct 22, 2019)

MarkM said:


> If you don't know something, you shouldn't just make it up.


As a parent of a student that played DA soccer, I agree with Espola.


----------



## Glen (Oct 22, 2019)

Dos Equis said:


> Most sports have become year round, and the ability to participate in other activities is a sacrifice you make willingly.  The USSDA is not unique in this expectation. However, other sports do let their players participate in that chosen sport in HS.  The USSDA effectively does not.
> 
> We have two valuable and unique assets in the US -- high school and college education systems that provide the infrastructure and resources to help advance athletics as well.  US Soccer openly opposes participation in athletics in either, and I cannot name another major federation/governing body of another team sport in this country that does this.
> 
> There is no evidence US Soccer and its USSDA system has done anything to improve the level of soccer in the US on a relative or an absolute basis in the last 10 years, and plenty of examples of how our game has gone downhill in the same period. Whatever one may argue players have gained in technical/tactical ability has not been implemented on the field, and has been offset by a loss of attitude, heart, teamwork and will to win. The later they tend to teach pretty well in high school and college.  Unfortunately, the results are in.


I would hardly characterize those as "unique assets."  Using our educational systems to subsidize sports is one of countries greatest flaws. The best educational systems in the world keep academics and athletics separate.  In my opinion, anything we do to make high schools sports less important, the better.


----------



## MarkM (Oct 22, 2019)

outside! said:


> As a parent of a student that played DA soccer, I agree with Espola.


Here's a good DA player.  State champ in track as a sophomore.  Going to Oregon.  I would call that a serious effort in another HS sport, wouldn't you?    https://www.dailybulletin.com/2019/05/28/sun-bulletin-girls-athlete-of-the-week-jacqueline-duarte-chino-hills/


----------



## outside! (Oct 22, 2019)

MarkM said:


> Here's a good DA player.  State champ in track as a sophomore.  Going to Oregon.  I would call that a serious effort in another HS sport, wouldn't you?    https://www.dailybulletin.com/2019/05/28/sun-bulletin-girls-athlete-of-the-week-jacqueline-duarte-chino-hills/


I didn't say it couldn't be done, but my player said she did not want to play any other high school sports because high level soccer took too much time. She was interested in track, but once she transitioned to DA, she said is was even more demanding. On the upside, it did prepare her for the time demands of college.


----------



## outside! (Oct 22, 2019)

Glen said:


> I would hardly characterize those as "unique assets."  Using our educational systems to subsidize sports is one of countries greatest flaws. The best educational systems in the world keep academics and athletics separate.  In my opinion, anything we do to make high schools sports less important, the better.


Did you participate in sports or other non-academic classes in high school? There is more to life than the 3R's.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Oct 22, 2019)

outside! said:


> As a parent of a student that played DA soccer, I agree with Espola.


Rule of thumb never publicly acknowledge you think E is right.


----------



## espola (Oct 22, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Rule of thumb never publicly acknowledge you think E is right.


But I'm always right.


----------



## Justus (Oct 22, 2019)

MarkM said:


> Here's a good DA player.  State champ in track as a sophomore.  Going to Oregon.  I would call that a serious effort in another HS sport, wouldn't you?    https://www.dailybulletin.com/2019/05/28/sun-bulletin-girls-athlete-of-the-week-jacqueline-duarte-chino-hills/


Horrible example Mark.  Would you like me to tell you why sir?


----------



## Glen (Oct 22, 2019)

outside! said:


> Did you participate in sports or other non-academic classes in high school? There is more to life than the 3R's.


Yes, I did.  I'm not advocating that kids stop doing other non-academic activities.  I'm advocating that it be kept separate from academics.  The only plausible justification for HS sports is to foster a sense of community.  I've never seen evidence to actually support the argument, but there is a plausibility to it.  Regardless, communities all over the world do perfectly fine without HS sports.  They just have other ways to foster community without corrupting the educational system.


----------



## MarkM (Oct 22, 2019)

Justus said:


> Horrible example Mark.  Would you like me to tell you why sir?


No.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 22, 2019)

Justus said:


> Horrible example Mark.  Would you like me to tell you why sir?


Oh...please do


----------



## Justus (Oct 22, 2019)

MarkM said:


> No.


Mark, I'll PM you and you can let the DA Boys, Kickster and Lasty in on the Intel.  Please keep PM private though.  Is that possible????  This is good info bro and it might change your thinking.  First hand knowledge of the scoop.  Let me know if that explains things a little better.  If that still confuses you three, then you call Coach Woodcock and he can tell you why it's a horrible example.  Or better yet, look at who she's playing for and that might help you out too dude......


----------



## sdb (Oct 24, 2019)

Worth a watch if you haven't seen it already:  Jesse Marsch's halftime talk vs. Liverpool

https://twitter.com/grantwahl/status/1180104467708022784?lang=en


----------



## Justus (Oct 24, 2019)

sdb said:


> Worth a watch if you haven't seen it already:  Jesse Marsch's halftime talk vs. Liverpool
> 
> https://twitter.com/grantwahl/status/1180104467708022784?lang=en


Dude, that was awesome!!!  That's called passion and Ganas.  What I heard was, "show some balls and get aggressive.  This is champions league."  I didn't hear him say, "we need to play more tactical and show all the development we worked on all summer."  he said, "Play the F ing game with heart and soul!!!!"  "You need to Care you wimps!!!!!"


----------



## ToonArmy (Oct 29, 2019)

https://scuffed.simplecast.com/episodes/episode-107-a-primer-on-some-of-us-soccers-dysfunction-including-its-problem-with-latinos-from-mike-woitalla


----------



## oh canada (Nov 14, 2019)

Rematch with Canada tomorrow (Friday).  Pulisic out, but US Soccer bringing in another young kid developed on foreign soil--Sergino Dest.  Kid is a legit player thanks to Ajax, not the USDA.






						'Some of them didn't like it' - Dest gets mixed Ajax reaction to USMNT commitment | Goal.com
					

Sergino Dest admits his decision to commit to playing for the United States rather the Netherlands has drawn a mixed reaction from his Ajax teammates.




					www.goal.com


----------



## Kicker4Life (Nov 14, 2019)

I always thought Coaches developed players?  Leagues just provide the gaming format.


----------



## newwavedave (Nov 14, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Rematch with Canada tomorrow (Friday).  Pulisic out, but US Soccer bringing in another young kid developed on foreign soil--Sergino Dest.  Kid is a legit player thanks to Ajax, not the USDA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe great players in any sport make other great players better.  Phil Jackson took a few GOATs, gave them some books to read and won.


----------



## espola (Nov 14, 2019)

newwavedave said:


> I believe great players in any sport make other great players better.  Phil Jackson took a few GOATs, gave them some books to read and won.


I thought GOAT meant Greatest Of All Time.  Wouldn't any coach succeed with that?


----------



## espola (Nov 14, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> I always thought Coaches developed players?  Leagues just provide the gaming format.


Many years ago in this forum, someone claimed that CSL devloped the best players.  I asked for specific examples of how CSL was doing that, and I think people got the idea that the league just stands to one side while clubs and coaches do the actual development work.  Since then, several newcomer leagues (ECNL, SCDSL, DA, Presidio's SDDA, etc) have arisen to prove the point.


----------



## oh canada (Nov 14, 2019)

my point re Dest is simply that he is another player now on the USMNT that did not get developed in the US home system (USDA).  If we're serious about competing on the World stage, we need to admit that any 12-14 year old with potential needs to live/play in Europe or Mexico for multiple years.  Staying here will not cut it.  The same is happening with Canadian kids.


----------



## newwavedave (Nov 15, 2019)

Despite the criticism of the team and its recent results, Berhalter believes in his players.

*"It's a group that's developing," *he said on Thursday. "I think it's a resilient, brave group. From Day 1, the players have been focused on every single thing we've asked of them. And for me that mindset is amazing. We're embracing [the pressure]. When you look at the history of U.S. soccer, we've been in situations like this before. This is what builds the team, this is what makes the team strong. We need events like this to help the team grow." 

Listen everyone and I'm not trying to be a smartass either.  He needs to say, "It's a group that's WINNING."  I'm so SICK of this stupid word, "developing."  It's trick word because we are not winning.


----------



## espola (Nov 15, 2019)

newwavedave said:


> Despite the criticism of the team and its recent results, Berhalter believes in his players.
> 
> *"It's a group that's developing," *he said on Thursday. "I think it's a resilient, brave group. From Day 1, the players have been focused on every single thing we've asked of them. And for me that mindset is amazing. We're embracing [the pressure]. When you look at the history of U.S. soccer, we've been in situations like this before. This is what builds the team, this is what makes the team strong. We need events like this to help the team grow."
> 
> Listen everyone and I'm not trying to be a smartass either.  He needs to say, "It's a group that's WINNING."  I'm so SICK of this stupid word, "developing."  It's trick word because we are not winning.


I think he is saying that the graduates of the Development Academy still need to be developed.


----------



## oh canada (Nov 15, 2019)

Haven't been this excited for a Canada men's soccer game for a long time.  Very interested to see how this plays out at 4pm on ESPN2.

Watch the game (or at least half) if you want to have any credibility attached to your post-game opinions, btw.  

It would be great to see both teams play beautiful soccer, a tight match and begin to develop another rivalry like USA/Canada hockey.


----------



## newwavedave (Nov 15, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Haven't been this excited for a Canada men's soccer game for a long time.  Very interested to see how this plays out at 4pm on ESPN2.
> 
> Watch the game (or at least half) if you want to have any credibility attached to your post-game opinions, btw.
> 
> It would be great to see both teams play beautiful soccer, a tight match and begin to develop another rivalry like USA/Canada hockey.


I'm watching.  I want to see Ganas and a big fat "W" and nothing else.  The Outlaws agree with me too


----------



## newwavedave (Nov 15, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Haven't been this excited for a Canada men's soccer game for a long time.  Very interested to see how this plays out at 4pm on ESPN2.
> 
> Watch the game (or at least half) if you want to have any credibility attached to your post-game opinions, btw.
> 
> It would be great to see both teams play beautiful soccer, a tight match and begin to develop another rivalry like USA/Canada hockey.


Daily wager is on right now.  Let's see what odds he's giving the Yankees tonight.


----------



## oh canada (Nov 15, 2019)

OMG, the arena is empty!  less than 10K i'm guessing.  wow, sad.


----------



## Grace T. (Nov 15, 2019)

OMG that lineup....Zardes again?  Hope I'm wrong but not gonna bother.


----------



## newwavedave (Nov 15, 2019)

Up 1-0 bro.  Go USA!!!!!  Great start


----------



## newwavedave (Nov 15, 2019)

oh canada said:


> OMG, the arena is empty!  less than 10K i'm guessing.  wow, sad.


Where are the fans????  Gees, The Outlaws are pissed off and so are the rest of us who take winning very serious.  Go America!!!


----------



## newwavedave (Nov 15, 2019)

2-0!!!  All is well and the development is finally working now


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Nov 15, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> OMG that lineup....Zardes again?  Hope I'm wrong but not gonna bother.


Zardes is not an issue but Brooks is thus far in the game.


----------



## watfly (Nov 15, 2019)

How ironic is it that the 3 goals have come from players that have gone through the US college soccer system?


----------



## oh canada (Nov 15, 2019)

Very disappointing from Canada - coach starts off with defensive lineup, players come out flat and give up defensible goals.  Bummer.

 I want to see the US get a goal from the run of play, not a set piece, and connect a few passes.  Canada with a lot more possession but US on the counters and getting set pieces off of them.  Lletget the star of the first half.  McKennie doesn't look like he belongs.


----------



## younothat (Nov 12, 2020)

Well nice to see the young players on the MNT but the 0-0 draw vs wales was kind of underwhelming after what 10 months?

First #USMNT game in almost a year and we just played 75 minutes of it with 0 strikers despite having 4 on the bench and instead played a 28-year-old slightly above average MLS player  We’re back baby  


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1327001215000076289


----------



## ToonArmy (Nov 12, 2020)

I actually found it to be the most enjoyable of a game I seen the usa men's play in many years.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Nov 12, 2020)

Listened to the game driving to AZ. The youth of the team was moderately impressive with their tactical execution. And, as mentioned without a true striker limited the opportunities.


----------



## notintheface (Nov 12, 2020)

Dest is the real deal. The more experience McKennie can get with Juventus the better. Adams looks good but needs to move to a better club. Gio Reyna could be great and needs to get more time at Dortmund. The very first hex game Musah needs to start for his cap to keep him away from Gareth Southgate. Weah needs to get on a better club. I could see Weah playing side by side with Sargent.

I'd run a 4-4-2 extra wide with this squad. Dest Brooks Ream Robinson / Reyna McKennie Pulisic Adams / Sargent Weah. You have solid buildup play and Pulisic has the skill and pace to run a super-wide game, and join Sargent and Weah in the box. Dest and Robinson can both whip the ball in low-- you won't win aerial battles with this team against guys like Araujo. It's exciting for sure, these kids are only going to get better and most of them are in the environment to improve their skills quickly.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Nov 12, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Dest is the real deal. The more experience McKennie can get with Juventus the better. Adams looks good but needs to move to a better club. Gio Reyna could be great and needs to get more time at Dortmund. The very first hex game Musah needs to start for his cap to keep him away from Gareth Southgate. Weah needs to get on a better club. I could see Weah playing side by side with Sargent.
> 
> I'd run a 4-4-2 extra wide with this squad. Dest Brooks Ream Robinson / Reyna McKennie Pulisic Adams / Sargent Weah. You have solid buildup play and Pulisic has the skill and pace to run a super-wide game, and join Sargent and Weah in the box. Dest and Robinson can both whip the ball in low-- you won't win aerial battles with this team against guys like Araujo. It's exciting for sure, these kids are only going to get better and most of them are in the environment to improve their skills quickly.


I also thought they looked like a team that wanted to prove something but just weren’t in sync with one another.  I agree 100% with you about Musah, he was arguably the best player in the files today. 

Maybe we can talk who the best true 9 for this group would be over that dinner?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Nov 13, 2020)

The good: 
- we were the attacking team for once. 
- great technical skills from Dest,McKennie, others. 
- handled the ball well in tight spaces
- Dest was very impressive.
The bad:
- couldn’t get too many shots on goal 
- whales looked very dangerous on the counterattack 
- we looked a bit slow 
- we don’t have a Striker to compliment our midfield.

They need to find a striker and stick with one or two options to get some experience.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Nov 13, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> They need to find a striker and stick with one or two options to get some experience.


One NOT named Altidore or Zardes!!!!


----------



## notintheface (Nov 13, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> They need to find a striker and stick with one or two options to get some experience.


Sargent and Weah can be those guys. They need a little bit of time and to be on teams where they will get service. Half the reason why Haland is doing so well is because he has Sancho and Brandt and Hazard and Reyna in support. Put Sargent and Weah into environments where they'll get looks at goal and they will only get better.


----------



## ToonArmy (Nov 13, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Sargent and Weah can be those guys. They need a little bit of time and to be on teams where they will get service. Half the reason why Haland is doing so well is because he has Sancho and Brandt and Hazard and Reyna in support. Put Sargent and Weah into environments where they'll get looks at goal and they will only get better.


Was Sargent not allowed to travel out of Germany? Reyna obviously did or is Sargent injured? I agree he might be that pure striker we were missing


----------



## Kicker4Life (Nov 13, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Sargent and Weah can be those guys. They need a little bit of time and to be on teams where they will get service. Half the reason why Haland is doing so well is because he has Sancho and Brandt and Hazard and Reyna in support. Put Sargent and Weah into environments where they'll get looks at goal and they will only get better.


Sargent is a good call.  I think Morris could also play that role and eventually Conrad.


----------



## lafalafa (Nov 13, 2020)

ToonArmy said:


> Was Sargent not allowed to travel out of Germany? Reyna obviously did or is Sargent injured? I agree he might be that pure striker we were missing


Sargent was covid travel restrictioned by his club








						Werder Bremen will not release Sargent for USMNT duty - SBI Soccer
					

Josh Sargent was set to join Gregg Berhalter's U.S. Men's National Team squad for November friendlies, but now looks ready to stay with Werder Bremen.



					sbisoccer.com
				




The USMNT is a work in progress, lots of work ahead. Getting a consistent team with a consistency set of players getting accustomed to each other is going to be key going forward.

The haphazard methods in the past where players are thrown together for a few month or weeks, leave, change, etc is like a circle jerk that hasn't seen results so let's hope the coaching staff implements a style of play and system with players that aren't coming and going every competition.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Nov 13, 2020)

ToonArmy said:


> Was Sargent not allowed to travel out of Germany? Reyna obviously did or is Sargent injured? I agree he might be that pure striker we were missing


Werder Bremen had a team mandate of no traveling and wanting players to quarantine. They therefore did not release him.

Addendum:
Oops, just saw the previous reply.


----------



## notintheface (Nov 13, 2020)

I should also add -- if Taylor Twellman or whoever is saying "the US needs a pure-bred number 9 striker kind of guy" then they aren't really paying attention to the global game. The past few years everything is about pace and winning tackles that cause immediate transition into a counterattack. You look at how Mou has gotten Kane to switch from a dude who just kinds of hangs out at the top of the box hoping for service, into an assist machine on the counterattack. You look at how my boy Jack Grealish just carves through defenses at a full run. You look at basically every Bundesliga game these days. A "pure number 9" is more expected to be doing long run counters all game long. This is where Sargent and Weah can shine. Pulisic has pace, Reyna has pace, Sargent and Weah need to learn how to work with that pace and you'll see the US start playing ball like Wolves or Villa or similar.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Nov 13, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Sargent and Weah need to learn how to work with that pace and you'll see the US start playing ball like Wolves or Villa or similar.


I have followed Sargent over the past year.  He is great at creating chances for others but he doesn’t score. I think he’s had 1 goal this season and not that many last season.  He is young so that’s the upside but still plenty of work in progress for him.   Can you image if we had Clint Dempsey at his prime with this team?   We need a new Dempsey and in my opinion we don’t have anyone yet to measure up to his caliber.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Nov 14, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I have followed Sargent over the past year.  He is great at creating chances for others but he doesn’t score. I think he’s had 1 goal this season and not that many last season.  He is young so that’s the upside but still plenty of work in progress for him.   Can you image if we had Clint Dempsey at his prime with this team?   We need a new Dempsey and in my opinion we don’t have anyone yet to measure up to his caliber.


The 9 isn’t just a goal scoring machine (Firminio is a great example).  They need to be able to hold, press, distribute and score.  It’s more about the movement and decision making. Kane’s evolution is another prime example.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Nov 16, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> The 9 isn’t just a goal scoring machine (Firminio is a great example).  They need to be able to hold, press, distribute and score.  It’s more about the movement and decision making. Kane’s evolution is another prime example.


Agreed but the problem is that we have no young top level 9 player that can either be a goal scorer or a hybrid.  Maybe Sargent is that hybrid  but he has yet to prove himself.  He is starting more often now but we need to see more assist and goals.  So far in 7 games for his club team he has 1 assist and 1 goal with 11 shots on goal.  

I would like to see Ully Llanez more in the next game.  I loved that he immediately took a shot on goal within the first 2 minutes on the field.


----------



## younothat (Nov 16, 2020)

Much better today 6-2 over Panama 








						United States vs. Panama - Football Match Report - November 16, 2020 - ESPN
					

Get a report of the United States vs. Panama 2020 International Friendly football match.




					www.espn.com
				




Found our #9 with Gioacchini or Soto or just to early to tell ? playing Panama who gave up several open looks in the box with the header fest.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Nov 16, 2020)

younothat said:


> Much better today 6-2 over Panama
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very true!  Gioacchini did everything well except for a horrible penalty shot.  Soto!!! That 2nd goal was very smart if he intended to do that!    We need better competition to see what they can do.   McKennie was a boss today!  Dest is doing very well.    If only Pulisic could stay healthy but that's a huge question mark given his injuries over the past 2 years


----------



## electrichead72 (Nov 16, 2020)

Miazga and Ream with the arm up for the offside call and dropped their game. Play to the whistle, they should know that by now.

They lost the runner for the first goal too.

The young players looked good, but these veterans are stuck in their old ways perhaps. I'm liking the younger guys playing more often.

I don't always agree with Lalas, but I agree that the coach has to pick his squad and stick with them. Changes will come up, but he needs to pick a core group and stay on course.

Let's see them play against a top team and hopefully, they'll still look good.


----------



## notintheface (Nov 19, 2020)

To be fair, a U9 boys or girls team could have put one or two past that Panama defense.


----------



## Desert Hound (Nov 20, 2020)

Here is a stat from Sports Illustrated.

_Here’s a statistic to ponder. Let it provide some context for all the conversation, hype and footballing fantasies now taking root. Since the World Cup expanded to 32 teams in 1998, the eventual tournament champion has won an average of six matches. That’s six victories in one month. The U.S. men’s national team has won six World Cup games combined in the past 70 years. That’s six victories across 18 tournaments.









						Just How Bright Can This USMNT's Future Be?
					

To think about breaking the U.S. men's national team's glass ceiling, you must first understand how high it stands.




					www.si.com
				



_


----------



## Desert Hound (Nov 20, 2020)

Interesting write up of the various players.









						USMNT's Top 25 under 23: Pulisic, Reyna, McKennie among list of youngsters to be excited about
					

Optimism is growing among USMNT supporters, due largely to a new generation of young stars. Here are 25 players to take the team to new heights.




					www.espn.com


----------



## Kicker4Life (Nov 20, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Interesting write up of the various players.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Still feel our future is brighter than ever....we have more players playing in the Champions League than ever before and not just in the roster.  Players like Reyna,  Pulisic, McKinney are all making an impact at high caliber clubs.  Most importantly, I don’t see Bradley making it back into the line up.  That in itself is a huge plus!


----------



## Desert Hound (Nov 21, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Still feel our future is brighter than ever....we have more players playing in the Champions League than ever before and not just in the roster.  Players like Reyna,  Pulisic, McKinney are all making an impact at high caliber clubs.  Most importantly, I don’t see Bradley making it back into the line up.  That in itself is a huge plus!


I agree, the future does look brighter vs what we have seen. I hope that pans out.

And actually the post you replied to, I thought the article was rather positive towards the type of players we are currently using.


----------



## Grace T. (Dec 9, 2020)

Very nice play by the USMNT tonight (also speaks to the idiotic depths the LA Galaxy has fallen that they can't do better with their talent).


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Dec 10, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Very nice play by the USMNT tonight (also speaks to the idiotic depths the LA Galaxy has fallen that they can't do better with their talent).


Ive never seen that Chris Mueller kid play but he looked great.  Granted it was against non WC level of competition.    I would like to see what he can do against better competition.    I didnt understand why Lleget played again.  I like him but it woud have been good to see new talent.     We still need to find our top striker.  I am hoping Soto can move up to a better league to see if he can compete as our top striker.


----------



## EOTL (Feb 21, 2021)

I wonder if anyone is going to boycott the WNT for supporting racial equality? Or is it only ok to treat gay people like s**t?


----------



## tjinaz (Feb 22, 2021)

EOTL said:


> I wonder if anyone is going to boycott the WNT for supporting racial equality? Or is it only ok to treat gay people like s**t?
> 
> View attachment 10182


Actually.... now they are standing for the Anthem again I may renew AO membership.

Protest whatever you want but if you wear the flag you better stand for the anthem.

USWNT now standing for the Anthem again


----------



## texanincali (Feb 22, 2021)

EOTL said:


> I wonder if anyone is going to boycott the WNT for supporting racial equality? Or is it only ok to treat gay people like s**t?
> 
> View attachment 10182


Seriously, what the fuck are you on about?  We've had our differences, but for the life of me, I don't understand why you feel the need to come into a thread that doesn't have a hint of political bs and do your best to turn it into an absolute dumpster fire.  There are specific threads for your incessant whining and crying.  Is it too much to ask for you to not try and ruin every thread on this entire board?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Feb 22, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Actually.... now they are standing for the Anthem again I may renew AO membership.
> 
> Protest whatever you want but if you wear the flag you better stand for the anthem.
> 
> USWNT now standing for the Anthem again


Valid point. If you are going to represent your country , you have to respect the flag and stand up.


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## outside! (Feb 22, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Valid point. If you are going to represent your country , you have to respect the flag and stand up.


Take to the off topic threads.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Feb 22, 2021)

The game v Brazil was bout our ladies best, but we weathered the storm and survived. 

Argentina gave Canada fits and we’re unlucky not to grab a point.  Wednesday’s games will be interesting.


----------



## tjinaz (Feb 23, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> The game v Brazil was bout our ladies best, but we weathered the storm and survived.
> 
> Argentina gave Canada fits and we’re unlucky not to grab a point.  Wednesday’s games will be interesting.


Have to say that Brasil team was good.  dynamic, skilled they are going to be a contender for years to come.  I think Canada surprised us we had problems with them when we shouldn't.  guess we will see, think the ARG game will be a blow out, we should put the smackdown on them.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Feb 23, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Have to say that Brasil team was good.  dynamic, skilled they are going to be a contender for years to come.  I think Canada surprised us we had problems with them when we shouldn't.  guess we will see, think the ARG game will be a blow out, we should put the smackdown on them.


I’ll drink to that!


----------



## outside! (Feb 23, 2021)

For the Canada game, the US squad just looked like they were all having a bad day until the subs came in. I have never seen Macario have so many poor touches. Sauerbrunn had at least two 15 yard first touches/passes to the other team that looked like they came off her shin guards. I don't think it was indicative of the team, they just looked rusty and like the planets were not in alignment or something.

The US team looked better against Brazil. I am glad Macario did not play against Brazil. No need to add that dynamic to a friendly.


----------



## whatithink (Mar 27, 2021)

So are the US genuine contenders for the World Cup in 2026? This article builds a case that they are heading in the right direction, and sees the DA as the catalyst for that ...

World Cup 2026: Are USA building towards success on home soil in 2026? - BBC Sport


----------



## Desert Hound (Mar 27, 2021)

whatithink said:


> So are the US genuine contenders for the World Cup in 2026? This article builds a case that they are heading in the right direction, and sees the DA as the catalyst for that ...
> 
> World Cup 2026: Are USA building towards success on home soil in 2026? - BBC Sport


I have always believed you would start to see the benefits of boys DA around now.  Ie a long term thing. Lots of people expect immediate results.

You need groups of kids going through all the years of youth academy and then get some pro experience.

And now we are starting to see increasing numbers of players who are good enough to play in Europe.

Good article


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Mar 27, 2021)

whatithink said:


> So are the US genuine contenders for the World Cup in 2026? This article builds a case that they are heading in the right direction, and sees the DA as the catalyst for that ...
> 
> World Cup 2026: Are USA building towards success on home soil in 2026? - BBC Sport


We still need  a world class Strikers and a world class center back.    
I’d say we can get to the top 16 and maybe final 8 if we get an easy draw.


----------



## espola (Mar 27, 2021)

Desert Hound said:


> I have always believed you would start to see the benefits of boys DA around now.  Ie a long term thing. Lots of people expect immediate results.
> 
> You need groups of kids going through all the years of youth academy and then get some pro experience.
> 
> ...


This could be an issue --

"teaching scouts to identify specific players that fit their desired profile.  "


----------



## eastbaysoccer (Mar 28, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> We still need  a world class Strikers and a world class center back.
> I’d say we can get to the top 16 and maybe final 8 if we get an easy draw.


We will never be good as long as we have our BEST athletes playing american sports like football and basketball.


----------



## eastbaysoccer (Mar 28, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> We still need  a world class Strikers and a world class center back.
> I’d say we can get to the top 16 and maybe final 8 if we get an easy draw.


 2026?  Are u kidding.  We didn’t even make the cut to be invited for the last WC


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Mar 28, 2021)

USMNT lost to Honduras. US will not be represented in the Olympics this year.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/us-fails-qualify-for-olympic-games-in-mens-soccer-after-loss-to-honduras/ar-BB1f3V4F


----------



## Grace T. (Mar 28, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> USMNT lost to Honduras. US will not be represented in the Olympics this year.
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/us-fails-qualify-for-olympic-games-in-mens-soccer-after-loss-to-honduras/ar-BB1f3V4F


the key difference between the Olympic squad and the first team is that the first team is heavy with players in Europe. The Olympic team lost out on some players who were otherwise occupied with the first team. But it does go to show for all the talk of da and up and comers, our bench isn’t very deep (I’d argue because we still don’t have enough people playing in Europe).

The other issue is the backpass. Sorry but the way us coaching is structured it’s very much on mistake avoidance.  Players get yelled at for mistakes instead of creative play being encouraged.  So when players like the gk are put in this situation they haven’t trained and don’t know what to do with it. And it’s not just practice....practice is different than a game and then same frantic energy just can’t be replicated in inter team or inter club scrimmages. They have to see situations like that in high level highly competitive games and weve seen even high level European goalkeepers mess it up.

but for the backpass error tie


----------



## EOTL (Mar 28, 2021)

whatithink said:


> So are the US genuine contenders for the World Cup in 2026? This article builds a case that they are heading in the right direction, and sees the DA as the catalyst for that ...
> 
> World Cup 2026: Are USA building towards success on home soil in 2026? - BBC Sport


No. The DA made the US men’s team even worse than it was before. The one thing that makes a country great at soccer is more people play it, more often, for a longer span of years. The DA took a very small group of mostly middling kiddie athletes (but super cute circus jugglers) to move forward, while relegating 99% of pre pubescent boys to second class training, competition, and training until completely running them out of the sport by age 13-14. Even with those chosen few mediocre athletes, it limited how much they can even have fun playing their sport. This is the worst possible way to create a great national team. So the US is now stuck with one itty bitty guy who can play a little at Chelsea so long as he’s surrounded by real athletes, plus mostly a bunch of crap that dumb Americans wistfully claim have “potential” because occasionally they get the privilege of carrying water for real players like Haaland and Ronaldo. 

The new crop of players have never even won a real NT soccer game before. Not one. Speculating they can win the WC is crazy talk.


----------



## eastbaysoccer (Mar 28, 2021)

EOTL said:


> No. The DA made the US men’s team even worse than it was before. The one thing that makes a country great at soccer is more people play it, more often, for a longer span of years. The DA took a very small group of mostly middling kiddie athletes (but super cute circus jugglers) to move forward, while relegating 99% of pre pubescent boys to second class training, competition, and training until completely running them out of the sport by age 13-14. Even with those chosen few mediocre athletes, it limited how much they can even have fun playing their sport. This is the worst possible way to create a great national team. So the US is now stuck with one itty bitty guy who can play a little at Chelsea so long as he’s surrounded by real athletes, plus mostly a bunch of crap that dumb Americans wistfully claim have “potential” because occasionally they get the privilege of carrying water for real players like Haaland and Ronaldo.
> 
> The new crop of players have never even won a real NT soccer game before. Not one. Speculating they can win the WC is crazy talk.


Mens soccer in the US is bad, that's why all our best players are overseas.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Mar 29, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> 2026?  Are u kidding.  We didn’t even make the cut to be invited for the last WC


 We are the host nation so we are in regardless.    Host nations historically make it past the group stage.   I still believe we can make the round of 16.  We’ve done it before with less talented teams.


----------



## happy9 (Mar 29, 2021)

EOTL said:


> No. The DA made the US men’s team even worse than it was before. The one thing that makes a country great at soccer is more people play it, more often, for a longer span of years. The DA took a very small group of mostly middling kiddie athletes (but super cute circus jugglers) to move forward, while relegating 99% of pre pubescent boys to second class training, competition, and training until completely running them out of the sport by age 13-14. Even with those chosen few mediocre athletes, it limited how much they can even have fun playing their sport. This is the worst possible way to create a great national team. So the US is now stuck with one itty bitty guy who can play a little at Chelsea so long as he’s surrounded by real athletes, plus mostly a bunch of crap that dumb Americans wistfully claim have “potential” because occasionally they get the privilege of carrying water for real players like Haaland and Ronaldo.
> 
> The new crop of players have never even won a real NT soccer game before. Not one. Speculating they can win the WC is crazy talk.


We are bad at men's soccer.  Trying to rationalize why we are bad is senseless. 

Maybe hire Calipari and Saban as consultants.  They'll be able to find talent.

At the end of the day, a small portion of the US sports viewing population cares about soccer.  Some don't even know it's  an Olympic sport.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Mar 29, 2021)

happy9 said:


> We are bad at men's soccer.  Trying to rationalize why we are bad is senseless.
> 
> Maybe hire Calipari and Saban as consultants.  They'll be able to find talent.
> 
> At the end of the day, a small portion of the US sports viewing population cares about soccer.  Some don't even know it's  an Olympic sport.


Try explaining to people why 4+ of our best u23 players are in Europe playing a friendly rather than in Mexico helping us qualify for the Olympics.


----------



## happy9 (Mar 29, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Try explaining to people why 4+ of our best u23 players are in Europe playing a friendly rather than in Mexico helping us qualify for the Olympics.


Yep, it's as if they didn't want to qualify.  Maybe those players just couldn't be bothered?  Disfunction to say the least.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Mar 29, 2021)

happy9 said:


> Yep, it's as if they didn't want to qualify.  Maybe those players just couldn't be bothered?  Disfunction to say the least.


No....their Club teams wouldn’t release them for Olympic Qualifying.


----------



## MacDre (Mar 29, 2021)

The tale of 2 Christian’s...is Christian Pulisic overrated like Christian Laettner?


----------



## outside! (Mar 29, 2021)

EOTL said:


> No. The DA made the US men’s team even worse than it was before. The one thing that makes a country great at soccer is more people play it, more often, for a longer span of years. The DA took a very small group of mostly middling kiddie athletes (but super cute circus jugglers) to move forward, while relegating 99% of pre pubescent boys to second class training, competition, and training until completely running them out of the sport by age 13-14. Even with those chosen few mediocre athletes, it limited how much they can even have fun playing their sport. This is the worst possible way to create a great national team. So the US is now stuck with one itty bitty guy who can play a little at Chelsea so long as he’s surrounded by real athletes, plus mostly a bunch of crap that dumb Americans wistfully claim have “potential” because occasionally they get the privilege of carrying water for real players like Haaland and Ronaldo.
> 
> The new crop of players have never even won a real NT soccer game before. Not one. Speculating they can win the WC is crazy talk.


I agree. IThe same can be said for ECNL.


----------



## espola (Mar 29, 2021)

happy9 said:


> Yep, it's as if they didn't want to qualify.  Maybe those players just couldn't be bothered?  Disfunction to say the least.


FIFA wouldn't release them.  Perhaps they see the Olympics as a distraction from their business.


----------



## happy9 (Mar 29, 2021)

espola said:


> FIFA wouldn't release them.  Perhaps they see the Olympics as a distraction from their business.


Well, it kinda is..


----------



## whatithink (Mar 29, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Try explaining to people why 4+ of our best u23 players are in Europe playing a friendly rather than in Mexico helping us qualify for the Olympics.


For the Olympics (soccer) the clubs can refuse to release the players (unlike senior FIFA competitions when they have to release them). So it may be that clubs said "no way" to releasing players to travel to Mexico to play. IDK but it seems more likely than not IMO.


----------



## whatithink (Mar 29, 2021)

EOTL said:


> No. The DA made the US men’s team even worse than it was before. The one thing that makes a country great at soccer is more people play it, more often, for a longer span of years. The DA took a very small group of mostly middling kiddie athletes (but super cute circus jugglers) to move forward, while relegating 99% of pre pubescent boys to second class training, competition, and training until completely running them out of the sport by age 13-14. Even with those chosen few mediocre athletes, it limited how much they can even have fun playing their sport. This is the worst possible way to create a great national team. So the US is now stuck with one itty bitty guy who can play a little at Chelsea so long as he’s surrounded by real athletes, plus mostly a bunch of crap that dumb Americans wistfully claim have “potential” because occasionally they get the privilege of carrying water for real players like Haaland and Ronaldo.
> 
> The new crop of players have never even won a real NT soccer game before. Not one. Speculating they can win the WC is crazy talk.


Anyone who makes the team at any of the examples in the article is doing it on merit. None of the professional European clubs are charities and none of them are picking US players for altruistic reasons. The professional teams could care less wrt the nationality of the players, aside from any national federation restrictions (on foreign) players or legal visa requirements. 

The premise of the DA/MLS Next leagues makes sense and replicates what happens everywhere else. That should be the cream and the quantity is irrelevant if you don't isolate and develop the cream. It should also be constantly changing. I can see that in AZ where for some clubs, the "elite" teams change as different kids hit puberty, starting to level out at U16/17. Mind you, the v best will have been offered a real MLS academy prior (most likely).


----------



## BIGD (Mar 29, 2021)

whatithink said:


> For the Olympics (soccer) the clubs can refuse to release the players (unlike senior FIFA competitions when they have to release them). So it may be that clubs said "no way" to releasing players to travel to Mexico to play. IDK but it seems more likely than not IMO.


It really shouldn't matter.  With the amount of soccer being played in the US and our population size, the fact we can't put together a team (even without those 4 players) to beat a tiny country like Honduras speaks volumes.


----------



## BIGD (Mar 29, 2021)

whatithink said:


> The professional teams could care less wrt the nationality of the players, aside from any national federation restrictions (on foreign) players or legal visa requirements.


I think this is a bit short-sighted.  The US is essentially an untapped market for international soccer.  Really the only one.  There are some additional incentives for European teams to produce a US soccer star.


----------



## younothat (Mar 29, 2021)

Well it was nice to see them do better  vs Northern Ireland

Missing the third straight Olympics after Honduras loss not so much. Turing Point for that lets hope so. 

No more excuses the other country's found a way and we didn't, plan and simple. The lack of leadership and stability on the US side continues on.


----------



## crush (Mar 29, 2021)

EOTL said:


> No. The DA made the US men’s team even worse than it was before. The one thing that makes a country great at soccer is more people play it, more often, for a longer span of years. The DA took a very small group of mostly middling kiddie athletes (but super cute circus jugglers) to move forward, while relegating 99% of pre pubescent boys to second class training, competition, and training until completely running them out of the sport by age 13-14. Even with those chosen few mediocre athletes, it limited how much they can even have fun playing their sport. This is the worst possible way to create a great national team. So the US is now stuck with one itty bitty guy who can play a little at Chelsea so long as he’s surrounded by real athletes, plus mostly a bunch of crap that dumb Americans wistfully claim have “potential” because occasionally they get the privilege of carrying water for real players like Haaland and Ronaldo.
> 
> The new crop of players have never even won a real NT soccer game before. Not one. Speculating they can win the WC is crazy talk.


EOTL coming on strong today.  So far bro, best post today.  Keep it to soccer and you might make a come back


----------



## whatithink (Mar 29, 2021)

BIGD said:


> I think this is a bit short-sighted.  The US is essentially an untapped market for international soccer.  Really the only one.  There are some additional incentives for European teams to produce a US soccer star.


I don't agree. The big teams come and play in their pre-season. Their games are being broadcast. They have their faux affiliations at the youth soccer level. They don't need a "flagship" US player on their roster to tap the US market. 

They do want access to US investors mind, which is happening in multiple leagues.

BTW, Asia is the market they all want to dominate - vastly more people and soccer is far more popular.


----------



## whatithink (Mar 29, 2021)

BIGD said:


> It really shouldn't matter.  With the amount of soccer being played in the US and our population size, the fact we can't put together a team (even without those 4 players) to beat a tiny country like Honduras speaks volumes.


Agree to the general point, but the whole "big country should beat small country" is a silly argument/stance. 

Belgium is the #1 ranked team in the world. Honduras has a similar population.

You can compare the investment, infrastructure, level of coaching, budget etc. and no way the US should lose ... but just the "we have more people" thing has no merit.


----------



## sdb (Mar 31, 2021)

whatithink said:


> Agree to the general point, but the whole "big country should beat small country" is a silly argument/stance.
> 
> Belgium is the #1 ranked team in the world. Honduras has a similar population.
> 
> You can compare the investment, infrastructure, level of coaching, budget etc. and no way the US should lose ... but just the "we have more people" thing has no merit.


I seem to recall that the book Soccernomics correlated country success based on population, time playing the game and GDP. It’s an interesting read, lots of cool insights, like don’t sign a 29 year old striker coming off a successful World Cup campaign.


----------



## Grace T. (Apr 27, 2021)

Anyone catch Real Madrid v. Chelsea?  Pulisic is emerging as a true first tier player, if not on par (yet?) with the legends, certainly as good as other starters currently playing in the Champions.


----------



## tjinaz (Apr 27, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> Anyone catch Real Madrid v. Chelsea?  Pulisic is emerging as a true first tier player, if not on par (yet?) with the legends, certainly as good as other starters currently playing in the Champions.


Honestly I was worried about Pulisic, Lampard did not seem to like him and when Tuchel took over I thought he was on the outs but now it seems he has played his way back into the good graces of the coach.  How is it Werner gets every chance in the world and Pulisic plays a bad game and he is benched?  If Pulisic can stay healthy the sky is the limit for him.


----------



## younothat (Apr 29, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> Anyone catch Real Madrid v. Chelsea?  Pulisic is emerging as a true first tier player, if not on par (yet?) with the legends, certainly as good as other starters currently playing in the Champions.


Has loads of potential, like him but yet to be consistent. 

Either hot or cold and needs to find a way to stay heathy and get more playing time.

Chelsa's away goal could be huge in the 2nd leg.    Last year of the away goals in Champions League so should be interesting.


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## electrichead72 (May 2, 2021)

If he can stay healthy, then maybe we'll get to see what he can do.

As soon as he starts to get some steady playing time and starts to shine, he gets hurt. He could be a big asset to Chelsea and the USMNT, so let's hope that he can keep healthy.


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## Grace T. (May 5, 2021)

Pulisic even though he came off the bench was awesome and that assist was both unselfish and lovely.  Perhaps an American in a Champions League final.

Also it's an all English final.  The top of the premiere league is really pulling away from the rest of the world (and the rest of the EPL), and with the failure of the Superleague, that's only going to continue particularly given the financial difficulty the Spanish and Italian clubs find themselves in (I don't know the financial condition of PSG and Bayern)


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## whatithink (May 5, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> Pulisic even though he came off the bench was awesome and that assist was both unselfish and lovely.  Perhaps an American in a Champions League final.
> 
> Also it's an all English final.  The top of the premiere league is really pulling away from the rest of the world (and the rest of the EPL), and with the failure of the Superleague, that's only going to continue particularly given the financial difficulty the Spanish and Italian clubs find themselves in (I don't know the financial condition of PSG and Bayern)


Pulisic was excellent when he came on, scared RM to death and a critical assist so coolly taken.

My 0.02 worth

The EPL does look like it could pull away. Its the second time in 3 years that it's an all English final, and its two different teams. The Europa league final could also be an all English affair with Man Utd all but in and Arsenal needing to turn around the first leg. And that's two different clubs again.

Add in that Leicester look likely to qualify for Champions league next season, that's a demonstration of a very strong league.

PSG are loaded, with basically billions behind them if needed. Even with that they may not win the French league. They got very petulant yesterday and were basically outplayed by Man City for 3 of the 4 halves.

Bayern are also dominant financially in Germany with Adidas, Audi & Alliance (insurance) owning a 25% stake between them ... no shortage of money and guaranteed champions league every year.

Real M and Barca need to rebuild, but that's expensive and the latter may not be able to afford it and stay competitive outside Spain in the short term. Real were shown up to be old, IMV, today. The Italian league is generally weak. There are quite a few players that couldn't quite hack in the EPL going there and tearing it up ... that should tell you everything. Again, it gets highlighted in the Euro comps when they meet top class opposition.


City are a pretty good "case study" on building a team versus the galacticos approach favored by Real M, Barca & PSG. The City team vs PSG cost a cool $1B approx. (below in GBP stolen from elsewhere). There were no "huge" buys, just lots of good (expensive) "buys", and while they obviously pay crazy well, there's no $1M a week net of taxes salaries etc. It means that they can take a hit when someone is out, because they have someone else nearly as good. They also play a system, with some exceptional talent obvs, so you can slot players in VS "get the ball to Messi/Neymer/Mbappe/Ronaldo".
Starting XI:
Ederson-£35m; Walker-£50m; Stones-£50m; Dias-£62m; Zinchenko-£2m (anomaly); Mahrez-£60m; Fernandinho-£35m; Gundogan-£20m; De Bruyne-£55m; Silva-£44m; Foden-acadmey.
Subs:
Ake-£41m; Sterling-£50m; Jesus-£27m; Aguero-£35m; Laporte-£57m; Rodri-£63m; Torres-£21m; Mendy-£52m; Cancelo-£27.5m; Steffen-£5m.
So that's a starting XI costing approx £413m and another £378.5m waiting on the bench. A total match day squad of approx £791.5.

Oh yeah ... the EPL roster size is 25 players I believe, so they have more players again in the roster - crazy & scary all at the same time.


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## Grace T. (May 5, 2021)

The top 7 EPL teams + maybe Arsenal are all better than Sevilla FC (I say this as a supporter of Sevilla since my 20s) and Krasnodar


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## Grace T. (May 5, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> The top 7 EPL teams + maybe Arsenal are all better than Sevilla FC (I say this as a supporter of Sevilla since my 20s) and Krasnodar


Also interesting that it’s still Real Madrid Barcelona juventus and inter that are holding out from repudiating the super league. The epl clubs folded like a wet blanket


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## electrichead72 (May 9, 2021)

I think they may hold out hope for the money.

Those Spanish and Italian clubs really need the money. It looks like they may have no money to spend this year unless they can get someone dirt cheap or sell some of their players. That could lead to another year of not doing too well in Europe.

Since the rest of their league are not really doing too well either, they all still end up in Champions's League.

UEFA may be trying to ban them for the Superleague thing, which I think is dumb, but if that goes through, they're going to take another financial hit.


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## Desert Hound (May 10, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> Pulisic even though he came off the bench was awesome and that assist was both unselfish and lovely. Perhaps an American in a Champions League final.


Just noticed last night that the goalie for Austin FC is Pulisic. He is a cousin of the well known Pulisic.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jun 6, 2021)

Tonight’s game was fun to watch and exciting.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jun 6, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Tonight’s game was fun to watch and exciting.


Kudos to Horvath coming off the bench for Steffen and just not making the save of the game but key saves in the second half.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jun 7, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Kudos to Horvath coming off the bench for Steffen and just not making the save of the game but key saves in the second half.


Pulisic was irrelevant for the first 45 minutes.   The 2nd half he did make a huge difference.  Strange game for pulisic.  I was also surprised Aaronson didn’t play.


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## Carlsbad7 (Jun 7, 2021)

Amazing game. Back and forth the whole time. Madness in the stands. If seating wasn’t limited by covid there would have been a riot. The Ref was forced to play a role in the game but was fair without being a factor in the outcome. Seriously that ref kept things from getting crazy. Even the players sensed it but nether team was going to back down.


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## Brav520 (Aug 1, 2021)

Yeah!


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## Desert Hound (Aug 2, 2021)

That wasn't the A team out there. 

It seems the US has some good young players with more in the pipeline.


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## Brav520 (Aug 2, 2021)

Desert Hound said:


> That wasn't the A team out there.
> 
> It seems the US has some good young players with more in the pipeline.


1 starter ( Acosta)that started the Nations Cup final in June .. and probable he wouldn’t have started in June had Adams been healthy

Mexico has 7 starters in this GC final that started in June

couple this loss with arguably getting outplayed by Canada in 2H in semis ( without David or Davies ) and this is a terrible result for Mexico

None of this may matter if they start breezing through qualifying next month

I’d do whatever it takes to get Vela back with this team, and if Jimenez is healthy that would be a big plus


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## eastbaysoccer (Aug 2, 2021)

USA looked fast and athletic but technical skills were lower than Mexico.  The better team lost yesterday. Good win for USA.


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## Desert Hound (Aug 2, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> USA looked fast and athletic but technical skills were lower than Mexico.  The better team lost yesterday. Good win for USA.


That was the Mex A team. 

My point being our pool is becoming deeper. Not that long ago there is no chance our B or C team would have even gotten this far.


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## outside! (Aug 2, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> USA looked fast and athletic but technical skills were lower than Mexico.  The better team lost yesterday. Good win for USA.


If I only saw the first half, I would agree with you. Towards the end of the second half Mexico's ball skills (particularly first touch) started to degrade. Once in overtime Mexico occasionally showed some skills, but for the most part were outplayed all over the field. I don't think they were the better team.


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## tjinaz (Aug 2, 2021)

outside! said:


> If I only saw the first half, I would agree with you. Towards the end of the second half Mexico's ball skills (particularly first touch) started to degrade. Once in overtime Mexico occasionally showed some skills, but for the most part were outplayed all over the field. I don't think they were the better team.


I think Berhalter out coached them.  He seemed to know when to add our super subs and that turned the tide.  For much of the first half I thought we were barely hanging on but in the second the tide seemed to turn where by the end we were starting to dominate.


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## eastbaysoccer (Aug 3, 2021)

Turning point?  the US team did not look like the better team.  If you played a 7 game series mexico would win that.  If the US can get to the KO round and do something then I would call that a turning point.


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## timbuck (Aug 3, 2021)

Playing "Better" soccer matters when talking about developing youth players.  
Playing "winning" soccer matters when it's senior national or club team.  The US win on Sunday was a bit sloppy.  Both teams were sloppy-  Not just their finishing.  
I dont think the US will ever produce a Messi-  Heck, Argentina only pumps out a player like that every generation or so.  Our soccer roots are scrappy players that play with a ton of heart.  And good goal keeping.  We didn't have that the last World Cup qualifying cycle.  It looks like we are getting back to that. And our players are getting better.  We have that scrappiness and we have depth.

I don't see us winning a World Cup anytime soon (or consistently beating Top 10 teams)-  But we are looking like we can compete.


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## outside! (Aug 3, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> Turning point?  the US team did not look like the better team.  If you played a 7 game series mexico would win that.  If the US can get to the KO round and do something then I would call that a turning point.


In overtime, Mexico did not look like the better team. The US did look sloppy, but they also put together some nice passes (compared to normal US teams). The momentum in overtime was clearly with the US in my opinion. During halftime I was predicting a US loss by at least 2 goals.


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## Tyler Durden (Aug 3, 2021)

Pretty simple from my perspective.  The US finally embraced the youth movement.

The US team is not as skilled and didn't execute as well as the Mexican team overall.  The players being younger than the usual US team were more athletic and were able to create pressured gamed play and make executing difficult which ultimately held Mexico off.  The past US teams were unable to do this because older players did not have athleticism and stamina to execute like this.  

Late in the 2nd half the Mexican team tired and was unable to keep up.   In overtime Mexico's possession and defense was breaking down which ultimately led up to the winning goal.  The US is not a point where the are equal technically to Mexico or any of the top teams.  They do have a deeper pool of athletic players, that can wear teams down that choose to play a high tempo game.


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## timbuck (Aug 3, 2021)

Tyler Durden said:


> Pretty simple from my perspective.  The US finally embraced the youth movement.
> 
> The US team is not as skilled and didn't execute as well as the Mexican team overall.  The players being younger than the usual US team were more athletic and were able to create pressured gamed play and make executing difficult which ultimately held Mexico off.  The past US teams were unable to do this because older players did not have athleticism and stamina to execute like this.
> 
> Late in the 2nd half the Mexican team tired and was unable to keep up.   In overtime Mexico's possession and defense was breaking down which ultimately led up to the winning goal.  The US is not a point where the are equal technically to Mexico or any of the top teams.  They do have a deeper pool of athletic players, that can wear teams down that choose to play a high tempo game.


What you said above is true.  And the exact opposite of our current Womens National Team. (well the young and athletic part at least)


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## lafalafa (Aug 3, 2021)

Good to see the young player's getting some opportunities and coming through. 

Now if we could figure out how to put together more consistent Olympic teams especially on the men's side that would help soccer popularity in the USA.

On to qualifing which we shouldn't have a problem with.  Getting into the world cup would be the turning point.  Getting to the round of 8 in the WC would be even better and a accomplishment that we should be able to build on.


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 3, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> Turning point?  the US team did not look like the better team.  If you played a 7 game series mexico would win that.  If the US can get to the KO round and do something then I would call that a turning point.


We must have been watching different games.  Mexico only dominated a majority of the 1st half.  The rest was simply gritty and the US out gritted them. If we are playing “what if’s” then in that 7 game series, can we play our A team instead of the B team we rostered in the Gold Cup?


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 3, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> We must have been watching different games.  Mexico only dominated a majority of the 1st half.  The rest was simply gritty and the US out gritted them. If we are playing “what if’s” then in that 7 game series, can we play our A team instead of the B team we rostered in the Gold Cup?


Agreed. The entire conversation should really be about this specific US team without implying the one that was not rostered. Two separate teams. The one that was not rostered has an entirely different skill set.


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## eastbaysoccer (Aug 3, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> We must have been watching different games.  Mexico only dominated a majority of the 1st half.  The rest was simply gritty and the US out gritted them. If we are playing “what if’s” then in that 7 game series, can we play our A team instead of the B team we rostered in the Gold Cup?


I watched the game where mexico out shot the US 22 to 11 and doubled us up on corner kicks. That sure sounds like Mexico was better Can you back up your statement with stats other than the 1-0 final score?


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## eastbaysoccer (Aug 3, 2021)

The US kids did great!  Not taking anything away from them.


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 3, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> I watched the game where mexico out shot the US 22 to 11 and doubled us up on corner kicks. That sure sounds like Mexico was better Can you back up your statement with stats other than the 1-0 final score?


Does any other stat matter?


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 3, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Does any other stat matter?


Interpretation of those stats through observations made throughout the game also will dictate another perspective not yet mentioned.


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## eastbaysoccer (Aug 3, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Does any other stat matter?


yes they do.  does the 1-0 score matter?  Do stats matter in baseball?  how about football?  how about basketball?  yes they do.  they talk about this all the time on espn.  +/- for basketball.  percentages in baseball.  Shit they use these stats to make decisions in game!!!!!  GM's in all sports make million dollar decisions based on stats.  How do you think they calculate your life insurance, auto, etc. premiums.  Using stats.

The US won.  Mexico has 22 shots and 11 corners to USA's 11 shots and 6 corners.  They were better team but on that given day the US got them.  and that really is my point.  If anyone thinks this is turning point you are nuts.  4 years ago we didn't even make WC!!!!


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 3, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> yes they do.  does the 1-0 score matter?  Do stats matter in baseball?  how about football?  how about basketball?  yes they do.  they talk about this all the time on espn.  +/- for basketball.  percentages in baseball.  Shit they use these stats to make decisions in game!!!!!  GM's in all sports make million dollar decisions based on stats.  How do you think they calculate your life insurance, auto, etc. premiums.  Using stats.
> 
> The US won.  Mexico has 22 shots and 11 corners to USA's 11 shots and 6 corners.  They were better team but on that given day the US got them.  and that really is my point.  If anyone thinks this is turning point you are nuts.  4 years ago we didn't even make WC!!!!


So Mexico won because they had 22 shots which only five on target?

Does a shot really matter if it’s not on target?

As has already been said, dig a little deeper and the story begins to balance itself out.


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 4, 2021)

This is a key point to the debate. Berhalter is using this tournament as a way to create a player pool with experience. There are players with little national experience and some who have not played in a few years (essentially dropped by the predecessor).  To say there is no growth is not true. This was a chance to see players  that could possibly bolster the starting lineup as well as offer a stronger group of players to chose from.

What the US showed was progression against a team that should have beat them. The US showed it can beat Mexico despite fielding an inferior team. It showed with expanding its pool they just became stronger by finding new players they may have excluded  from being called in. It showed commitment throughout the game to keep playing and to break down their opponent. 

A lot was gained during this event and much learned.


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## outside! (Aug 4, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> yes they do.  does the 1-0 score matter?  Do stats matter in baseball?  how about football?  how about basketball?  yes they do.  they talk about this all the time on espn.  +/- for basketball.  percentages in baseball.  Shit they use these stats to make decisions in game!!!!!  GM's in all sports make million dollar decisions based on stats.  How do you think they calculate your life insurance, auto, etc. premiums.  Using stats.
> 
> The US won.  Mexico has 22 shots and 11 corners to USA's 11 shots and 6 corners.  They were better team but on that given day the US got them.  and that really is my point.  If anyone thinks this is turning point you are nuts.  4 years ago we didn't even make WC!!!!


If you take out the first half, what are the stats? What about if you only look at OT?


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## El Clasico (Aug 4, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> This is a key point to the debate. Berhalter is using this tournament as a way to create a player pool with experience. There are players with little national experience and some who have not played in a few years (essentially dropped by the predecessor).  To say there is no growth is not true. This was a chance to see players  that could possibly bolster the starting lineup as well as offer a stronger group of players to chose from.
> 
> What the US showed was progression against a team that should have beat them. The US showed it can beat Mexico despite fielding an inferior team. It showed with expanding its pool they just became stronger by finding new players they may have excluded  from being called in. It showed commitment throughout the game to keep playing and to break down their opponent.
> 
> A lot was gained during this event and much learned.


This is a post that I can wholeheartedly agree on. What I can't agree on is that we have turned a big enough corner that we could make a round of 8. I personally believe that we are far, far away from that. I just don't see the it. And don't even get me started on the WNT, but you are welcome to go back and review 10 years of my posts reflecting both the MNT and the WNT.  Then again, you have been around for most of them.


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 4, 2021)

El Clasico said:


> This is a post that I can wholeheartedly agree on. What I can't agree on is that we have turned a big enough corner that we could make a round of 8. I personally believe that we are far, far away from that. I just don't see the it. And don't even get me started on the WNT, but you are welcome to go back and review 10 years of my posts reflecting both the MNT and the WNT.  Then again, you have been around for most of them.


-I am optimistic Berhalter has a player pool to make run at the final 8. Though it will comedown to execution when it matters by both the players and the coaching staff to get there. We are definitely many steps away from making the top 4 and possibly what would the end result be after playing in the final 8. 
-The WNT needs a change of player personnel right now. No doubt. 
-Both programs have had issues, especially the MNT. 
-Yes, I've been here a bit (8 years). Though I wish we could retrieve the posts from original forum prior to collapsing. There was a great thread of posts about soccer mom's driving Range Rovers that I would love to read again.


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## Desert Hound (Aug 4, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> This is a key point to the debate. Berhalter is using this tournament as a way to create a player pool with experience.


THIS^^^^

We are starting to see a lot more younger players play. 

Also if you look at our pool, more and more are playing in the top leagues in Europe. This was NOT the case 10 yrs or so ago.


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 4, 2021)

Desert Hound said:


> THIS^^^^
> 
> We are starting to see a lot more younger players play.
> 
> Also if you look at our pool, more and more are playing in the top leagues in Europe. This was NOT the case 10 yrs or so ago.


The number of young players at top clubs has never been this great in numbers. If these players continue to grow and become the players we hope they will become could be impactful for a number of years.


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## Tyler Durden (Aug 4, 2021)

One thing I can say is that I like the diversity on the team.  I think this is a good reflection doing a better job of opening the pool and looking at all the players that potentially could be capped for the US team.  I think players with backgrounds that are African, Latin and African American communities are playing soccer more and are seeing the US National team as a viable option.

At this point without being as technical as the top teams, the US must continue to balance athleticism with the players that are technical.  There is still a lot of needed growth, but it is encouraging.


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## outside! (Aug 4, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> -Yes, I've been here a bit (8 years). Though I wish we could retrieve the posts from original forum prior to collapsing. There was a great thread of posts about soccer mom's driving Range Rovers that I would love to read again.


Remember the soccer mom video and the quote "Don't do that"?


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## eastbaysoccer (Aug 4, 2021)

????  The US will not make the top 8 World Cup.  I hope they do.   Let’s try to qualify first


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## Desert Hound (Aug 4, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> ????  The US will not make the top 8 World Cup.  I hope they do.   Let’s try to qualify first


I don't think anyone is necessarily predicting a deep run in the WC. 

More of they are looking better and they seem to have some good young players who can help make the team stronger and more competitive. 

Winning in CONCACAF is a long way away from doing well in the WC.


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 4, 2021)

outside! said:


> Remember the soccer mom video and the quote "Don't do that"?


No! Man I missed that!


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## tjinaz (Aug 4, 2021)

Tyler Durden said:


> One thing I can say is that I like the diversity on the team.  I think this is a good reflection doing a better job of opening the pool and looking at all the players that potentially could be capped for the US team.  I think players with backgrounds that are African, Latin and African American communities are playing soccer more and are seeing the US National team as a viable option.
> 
> At this point without being as technical as the top teams, the US must continue to balance athleticism with the players that are technical.  There is still a lot of needed growth, but it is encouraging.


This...

When we were doing well under Klinsmann he simply went out to the European leagues and found players that could, within the rules, play for us.  We never really developed much of a pool.  The teams under Berhalter are from all over and there are a lot of them.  Develop a big pool and let the best rise to the top.

I do have one concern though.  Berhalter seems to coach well against CONCACAF teams but no so much against Euros or South American teams.  Time will tell but that is a hurdle we must overcome if we are to become successful.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Aug 4, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> I watched the game where mexico out shot the US 22 to 11 and doubled us up on corner kicks. That sure sounds like Mexico was better Can you back up your statement with stats other than the 1-0 final score?


Mexico outplayed the USA until about the 70th minute.  The USA team was the better team for those final 25 minutes.   I can’t remember the overtime part.    
If they play that game 10 times, mexico will win 7 of those games.  Honestly l thought Mexico was going to win 4-1 against our C team.     I am glad that I was wrong on my prediction.


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