# What would you do?



## Desert619 (Sep 10, 2018)

I like the advice I get on here and i have another “what would you do question?” 

DD is age 10, she was at the same club for 4 years playing flight 2. One of the top players on the team. She was having fun and very comfortable.

This  year a flight 1 team from another club wanted her. I mean they really tried hard to recruit her. So we made the jump. She wasn’t getting the same opportunity to play up at her club of 4 Years. So we figured let’s try it and see what she can do. I knew this would take her out of her comfort level and challenge her. 

Things are great. It’s a lot more competitive. The tournaments we play are really good tournaments like Blues, Manchester etc. I see her doing good and she seems happy, but then again she’s always happy. She can make the worst situation into a positive one. 

So what’s the problem? The coach! He’s mean, negative and never  has anything nice to say. He loses his shit at every practice and game. It takes everything in me not to get up and pull her out and never go back. Plus I see him trying to build a strong team and not focus on individual Player development. He doesn’t encourage dribbling, skills and creative play. It’s “pass, pass,pass!!” All day long. My DD trains outside of practice a lot.
It sucks that she’s not encouraged to use her skills. 

So what would you do? 

Stick it out and hope they change the coach or go back to her old club and play a lower flight? Btw her old club is all about player devolpment. They encourage skills, dribbling and creative play.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 10, 2018)

do you have only 1 or the other option and nothing else?


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## Desert619 (Sep 10, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> do you have only 1 or the other option and nothing else?


I’m sure we can take her somewhere else but I’d rather stick with these two clubs. I’m not interested in going anywhere else. 

I should say the coach was pretty tolerable this past weekend. I’m hoping that’s a change we will continue to see moving forward.


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## timbuck (Sep 10, 2018)

What does your daughter say?
You may only hear the negative stuff that the coach yells out.  But -Is he positive in team talks or individual conversations?
How many on the current team have been there for more than a season or 2?  What is the sideline like during games?  Do the parents feel the same way?  Or do they love this style for their kid?
Has he coached with this club for a while?  (If so, the chances of the club swapping him out next year aren't as likely).


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## mirage (Sep 10, 2018)

Conflicted between the parent's value propositions.

1)wants kid on a winning competitive team
2)wants kid to develop for the future

Common dilemma.  The decision to do anything is yours based on the particular situation and your value system.

Nobody, other than the player and the family, cars how many games and tournaments they win at 10 yrs old.  That focus should be placed at older ages (U14 and above) so that the team can be accepted into high profile tournaments (or make DA/ECNL team) and visibility to college coaches.

A player needs to know when to dribble and when to pass.  Its all part of developing soccer IQ and becoming a complete player.  If doing privates help continuing development path, perhaps pass oriented team may actually help learn different aspects of the game.  There's nothing that prevents a player from dribbling in the games as long as the ball is not turned over.

Example I see too often is when a player doesn't know when to take the space and keep the ball.  By keeping the ball, a player draws defenders toward the ball; hence, opening up options for others.  The other end of the spectrum is a player keeping the ball when one touch pass is the appropriate action (no space, asymmetrical alignment against you).

So you can see a player needs to know both.  So with that as a background, back to you....


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## Desert619 (Sep 10, 2018)

mirage said:


> Conflicted between the parent's value propositions.
> 
> 1)wants kid on a winning competitive team
> 2)wants kid to develop for the future
> ...



I love this response! You opened up my eyes and mind. I’m not at all about winning. I just want to see my dd develop and have fun. 

She is learning the game and becoming a better all around player.


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## Multi Sport (Sep 10, 2018)

Desert619 said:


> She is learning the game and becoming a better all around player.


There's your answer...


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## texanincali (Sep 10, 2018)

There are a couple of ways to look at this.  Just because the coach yells and is hard on the girls doesn't mean that she isn't improving.  The environment that you have her in is every bit as important as the individual coach.  If the other girls on the team are good players and therefore your daughter is being pushed - she will improve, regardless of what the coach is like.  

We don't give these kids enough credit at the younger ages.  It is quite possible that the coaches actions are bothering you way more than they are bothering her - she will tell if you if she isn't having fun.  If your young daughter continues to be a good player, she will have many different coaches during her career.  They will all be different and have positives and negatives - she has to be able to deal with them all.  In the end, it isn't about the screaming and yelling, it is about your daughters progress as a player.

That being said, it is important for a parent to be able to tell the difference between a difficult environment and a toxic environment.  You will know right away if it is toxic.


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## Desert619 (Sep 10, 2018)

timbuck said:


> What does your daughter say?
> You may only hear the negative stuff that the coach yells out.  But -Is he positive in team talks or individual conversations?
> How many on the current team have been there for more than a season or 2?  What is the sideline like during games?  Do the parents feel the same way?  Or do they love this style for their kid?
> Has he coached with this club for a while?  (If so, the chances of the club swapping him out next year aren't as likely).



She’s very positive. She says he yells a lot but it doesn’t bother her. They seem pretty happy but notice some negative behavior and say that’s just the way he is and look past it. He’s a good coach just seems upset all the time and Comes across angry.


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## younothat (Sep 10, 2018)

Coaches are role models,  the behavior you see when there under stress is normally who they are, not likely to change.

At age 10 I would be more concerned with my kids love of the game vs what flight or tournament they may play in.

Remember this is not a Sprint but a Marathon if you want to have kids who love the game enough to continue on to college age or beyond.

The drop out rate for youth sports continues to climb each year so lets your player drive what they want, we all have exceptions but those can cloud your good intentions.

All kids will eventually find there level  and need good parental support to reach those goals.  The journey in youth sports is often more important than the destination.

A good open positive relationship with coaches goes along way, I have always encouraged my players to talk to the coach and work everything out directly, some kids are too shy or young to say much but its good practice to at least try with them even if you have to stand beyond or "hold" the hands in the process.  Let them express there feeling even if you have to Q&A with them to get it all out.

At this point at the start of the season, we always get these buyer remorse type posts so that's normal but until the next transfer window (thanksgiving) teaching kids to honor there commitments and work things out is normally would be the advice unless things are toxic and beyond repair which doesn't sound like the case.


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## outside! (Sep 10, 2018)

texanincali said:


> That being said, it is important for a parent to be able to tell the difference between a difficult environment and a toxic environment.  You will know right away if it is toxic.


A coach that is tough, but has respect for the players can work out. There is no way I would pay money to someone that showed disrespect to my kids however. I do not want to teach my children that it is OK for people in positions of authority to treat them like crap. They can get plenty of practice with how to deal with a shitty boss at school.


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## Hired Gun (Sep 10, 2018)

Even though it's too late you should do your "homework" before you make jumps...Go to practice and games before deciding.  That first "scheduled" practice the coach will usually bite their tough... Normally in bigger club situations the coach normally passes on the team in a couple years.  I think you just don't limit your scope to just 1-2 clubs - only if geographically this is the case.  Always hard to find the perfect fit...  But you are the consumer, shop and talk -- development is the most important thing at this age.... Good Luck.


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## Messi>CR7 (Sep 10, 2018)

Adding my two cents:
-If your DD is "clearly" the top two or three players on a flight 2 team, I would tend to challenge her to play a higher flight.  This is assuming coaches are equal between the two teams you're considering.
-At age 10, one of the main goals and a question you should ask yourself is does my DD love soccer more now compared to a year ago?  If she is doing a rain dance every time before going to a practice, then you know :-(  If she doesn't love playing, she won't get better.
-It sounds like the coach is loud and tough, but not at the level of abusive from your description.  If your DD is enjoying soccer and you as a family don't consider the coach abusive, I would finish up the season.  U-little tryout are only 8 weeks away 

Good luck.


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## Desert619 (Sep 10, 2018)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Adding my two cents:
> -If your DD is "clearly" the top two or three players on a flight 2 team, I would tend to challenge her to play a higher flight.  This is assuming coaches are equal between the two teams you're considering.
> -At age 10, one of the main goals and a question you should ask yourself is does my DD love soccer more now compared to a year ago?  If she is doing a rain dance every time before going to a practice, then you know :-(  If she doesn't love playing, she won't get better.
> -It sounds like the coach is loud and tough, but not at the level of abusive from your description.  If your DD is enjoying soccer and you as a family don't consider the coach abusive, I would finish up the season.  U-little tryout are only 8 weeks away
> ...



No he isn’t abusive at all. I guess I have to learn to not take it so personal. She’s in a good spot. I just need to learn to develop thick skin. If it doesn’t bother her it shouldn’t bother me, I suppose.


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## Josep (Sep 10, 2018)

I’m not in favor of abusive coaches.  I will just say, she won’t be able to control how a coach or boss treats her in life. 

If she’s not bothered, let it go.  The main thing kids need besides the skills is confidence.  A winning kid can go join any team and be a leader.  That’s what you look for, confidence building.  

If he’s tearing her down, leave after this year.


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## coachsamy (Sep 10, 2018)

What was the problem with the older club? What was so great and enticing on the new club that made you take your DD away from what I'm gathering was a good situation for her?


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## outside! (Sep 10, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> What was the problem with the older club? What was so great and enticing on the new club that made you take your DD away from what I'm gathering was a good situation for her?


Higher level of play.


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## coachrefparent (Sep 10, 2018)

Passing and receiving are the most important "skills" in soccer.  If every player can do these 2 things very well, they will school other teams.  If you can't do this consistently you cannot play possession soccer (not very well anyway.)  Watch any premier league game and you will will see the players doing this perfectly 90% of a game.  Dribbling (and other youtube moves) are a specialty that don't necessarily hurt, but the above are for more important and should be the foundation of any player, especially a 10 year old.


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## coachsamy (Sep 10, 2018)

outside! said:


> Higher level of play.


Mmmm... Define that higher level of play at 10yrs. old.


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## outside! (Sep 10, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> Mmmm... Define that higher level of play at 10yrs. old.


Better, faster players. One of the reasons that DD switched teams back in the day was to play with players that would cross the ball instead of shooting it every single time, over and over again.


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## coachsamy (Sep 10, 2018)

outside! said:


> Better, faster players. One of the reasons that DD switched teams back in the day was to play with players that would cross the ball instead of shooting it every single time, over and over again.


Oops. I saw that the OP DD's wasn't getting a fair shake to move up to the A team. 

@Desert619 good on you taking your DD away from that club which builts from weakening their opposition.


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## Dominic (Sep 10, 2018)

My son learned the most from a verbally abusive coach (pressure) . This coach still has top players (D1/National)  doing private training with him, and I would not hesitate to take my son back to him if he hadn't aged out.


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## Oski (Sep 10, 2018)

If it's a fit in terms of skill level, team personality, location, etc., and if your daughter is getting better and is happy with the team, I'd let it ride.  Your DD is only 10, so odds are she'll have another club coach (or two) plus a high school coach (or two) before she's done anyway (e.g. coach leaves, club merges, recruited to a new team, etc.).

As my kids got to age 12-13, I let them get more and more involved in decisions like this.  Our process went kind of like this: (1) we (the parents) would decide how far we were willing to drive, and how much we were willing to pay; (2) the kids would test out and guest with the teams within our geographic and financial range to get a feel for the options (if we didn't know the team already); (3) we'd all discuss the pros and cons, focusing on whether their skill level was a good fit for the team, and whether they would have fun playing on the team; and (4) the kids would then make the final call.  Ultimately, if they're not having fun -- particularly as they get to high school age -- they're not going to keep playing, so if you have a rooting interest in keeping them playing, that means a major priority will be ensuring they're having fun (and the best way to do this is to ask them and listen to the answer).

For us, one current coach is a yeller, but the kid on his team really likes the team and is having fun and says the yelling doesn't bother her -- when she tells me she's no longer having fun, then we'll reconsider.


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## Dr. Richard Hurtz (Sep 10, 2018)

Pass pass pass isn’t such a bad thing. Tiki Taka and doing Rondos and she can learn a lot. Stick it out for the season. When you watch La Liga or EPL dribbling is only done maybe 1 v 1 striker and defender or when the player is jammed in and there’s no way out. Passing and building out of the back is good. If the coach is working on thru balls and having player making those run in behind the defenses line then your daughters team could get interesting. Stick out I say.


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## Surfref (Sep 10, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> Mmmm... Define that higher level of play at 10yrs. old.


There are definitely higher and lower levels of play for B/G10 teams.  I have refereed B/G10 games that moved the ball better then a lot of B/G13 teams.


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## socalkdg (Sep 11, 2018)

Dr. Richard Hurtz said:


> Pass pass pass isn’t such a bad thing. Tiki Taka and doing Rondos and she can learn a lot. Stick it out for the season. When you watch La Liga or EPL dribbling is only done maybe 1 v 1 striker and defender or when the player is jammed in and there’s no way out. Passing and building out of the back is good. If the coach is working on thru balls and having player making those run in behind the defenses line then your daughters team could get interesting. Stick out I say.


The last 5-6 months of practice seems to be non-stop rondos,  from 4 person stationary to 12 person movement.   A bit more boring to watch during practice, but really has made a huge difference during our last tournament and our first league game.   Like night and day watching the team play compared to last year.   I'd stay with the new team, plus continue individual training if she likes it.


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## Primetime (Sep 11, 2018)

IMHO A topic parents often undervalue when evaluating to move teams is stability.   Stability gets mistaken with complacency or comfortability which can be viewed as a bad thing.    Most parents strive for a stable home and school life but when it comes to soccer or sports they tend to throw that value out the window.   When it comes to soccer and choosing clubs or teams my advice is choose a club or program to call home.  Not necessarily a team or coach but a program that offers growth and stability with in the club.  Coaches and teams/players will come and go but if your in a good program there should be opportunity in both directions.   Not just the next best team to move too but maybe the opportunity to be an impact player on what some might view to be a lesser team.  At 8- 13 years old the quality of the team should be completely irrelevant.   Find a club that has a collective group of coaches in and around your kids age that you wouldn't mind having your kid play for any of them.  Find a club that has proven pathways and proven track record of player development.  While creativity should be promoted your not gonna find it encouraged as much on a "high level" team that's trying to win games.  They're gonna promote the right play to win the game and get "results".   If your really looking for your kid to have those opportunities to take players on at will and make her moves she's working on she'll need to be confident and confidence is hard to come by if being pushed to the highest level possible.   I see it a lot in my own players.   I have girls that play up and when they guest play for our younger teams their age group the confidence and willingness to make moves and take charge a little more is much more than it is on our normal team where things are a little tougher.   
    The big risk parents take in moving kids to another team or club is the one your facing.  What if it's actually not better?  So now what ? Now your looking to move again and if that doesn't pan out either you'll be looking for a 3rd or 4th team in as many years.  Imagine changing your kids school that much and expecting success.   Its a tall order.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 11, 2018)

Primetime said:


> IMHO A topic parents often undervalue when evaluating to move teams is stability.   Stability gets mistaken with complacency or comfortability which can be viewed as a bad thing.    Most parents strive for a stable home and school life but when it comes to soccer or sports they tend to throw that value out the window.   When it comes to soccer and choosing clubs or teams my advice is choose a club or program to call home.  Not necessarily a team or coach but a program that offers growth and stability with in the club.  Coaches and teams/players will come and go but if your in a good program there should be opportunity in both directions.   Not just the next best team to move too but maybe the opportunity to be an impact player on what some might view to be a lesser team.  At 8- 13 years old the quality of the team should be completely irrelevant.   Find a club that has a collective group of coaches in and around your kids age that you wouldn't mind having your kid play for any of them.  Find a club that has proven pathways and proven track record of player development.  While creativity should be promoted your not gonna find it encouraged as much on a "high level" team that's trying to win games.  They're gonna promote the right play to win the game and get "results".   If your really looking for your kid to have those opportunities to take players on at will and make her moves she's working on she'll need to be confident and confidence is hard to come by if being pushed to the highest level possible.   I see it a lot in my own players.   I have girls that play up and when they guest play for our younger teams their age group the confidence and willingness to make moves and take charge a little more is much more than it is on our normal team where things are a little tougher.
> The big risk parents take in moving kids to another team or club is the one your facing.  What if it's actually not better?  So now what ? Now your looking to move again and if that doesn't pan out either you'll be looking for a 3rd or 4th team in as many years.  Imagine changing your kids school that much and expecting success.   Its a tall order.


Do you happen to know the name of this wonderful club?


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## Threeyardsback (Sep 11, 2018)

Primetime said:


> IMHO A topic parents often undervalue when evaluating to move teams is stability.   Stability gets mistaken with complacency or comfortability which can be viewed as a bad thing.    Most parents strive for a stable home and school life but when it comes to soccer or sports they tend to throw that value out the window.   When it comes to soccer and choosing clubs or teams my advice is choose a club or program to call home.  Not necessarily a team or coach but a program that offers growth and stability with in the club.  Coaches and teams/players will come and go but if your in a good program there should be opportunity in both directions.   Not just the next best team to move too but maybe the opportunity to be an impact player on what some might view to be a lesser team.  At 8- 13 years old the quality of the team should be completely irrelevant.   Find a club that has a collective group of coaches in and around your kids age that you wouldn't mind having your kid play for any of them.  Find a club that has proven pathways and proven track record of player development.  While creativity should be promoted your not gonna find it encouraged as much on a "high level" team that's trying to win games.  They're gonna promote the right play to win the game and get "results".   If your really looking for your kid to have those opportunities to take players on at will and make her moves she's working on she'll need to be confident and confidence is hard to come by if being pushed to the highest level possible.   I see it a lot in my own players.   I have girls that play up and when they guest play for our younger teams their age group the confidence and willingness to make moves and take charge a little more is much more than it is on our normal team where things are a little tougher.
> The big risk parents take in moving kids to another team or club is the one your facing.  What if it's actually not better?  So now what ? Now your looking to move again and if that doesn't pan out either you'll be looking for a 3rd or 4th team in as many years.  Imagine changing your kids school that much and expecting success.   Its a tall order.


I think that this while logical on it’s merit, oversimplifies the process as well as the value of stability.  From your writings it sounds like you are perhaps a coach or someone well informed of the game.  Most don’t have such credentials to make an informed decision the first time out.  The average parent of a youth soccer player doesn't necessarily have the knowledge base described above to properly assess or evaluate a program when they first enter club level.  In my case proximity, cost, and the temperament of the coach were the factors that led us to our first club.  I didn’t possess the ability to determine if the club had a "proven pathway and track record of player development".  I could see wins, losses, and the energy of the coach.  My DD did get tons of playing time and had a great time with the team.  She wanted more.  Privates, futsal, guesting ensued and the understanding of “player development” grew within all of  us.  It continues to evolve as she does.  Our first club was a wonderful experience and facilitated her love of the game, it did not however contribute much to her understanding of the game.  She played up and guested with much older teams of the club, but with the same undisciplined tactical methodology.  This was helping her speed and physicality, but she was not growing into the game.  When she would guest outside of the club the tactical deficiencies were readily apparent and she began to desire the tactics and skills that were being developed by others.  Together we were now able to exercise the vetting that you describe above and selected a new club that has the attributes that can help her achieve the level of play she desires.


When we first entered the club scene, we knew very little and I suppose we still have lots to learn.  Both she and I are happy that we made what was an emotional move to leave her first team and find one that provided her with what we didn’t even know she needed.  Stability wasn’t as important as finding a better learning environment.  Stability sounds nice and I suppose it was, but it doesn’t outweigh the betterment of environment and teaching.  As to the analogy of changing schools, if I felt that my child was receiving a substandard education and a good one was available to me, you bet I would upset the apple cart and move.  Stability while a good thing would not be a priority over a successful education.


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## outside! (Sep 11, 2018)

Maybe we have been fortunate, but every time our players have changed teams it has been a positive move. In my opinion, the coach and the players are much more important than the club since more than 90% of the time is spent with the team. DD changed teams and clubs 3 times (and had 7 coaches) before heading off to play in college. Each team and coach helped her development. My son has changed teams 5 times now, clubs 4 times (back to the original club) and is now with a great coach and team. In our experience, a good trainer for private lessons is just as important as the coach and team. To the OP, while it is important to gain confidence in dribbling, do not let it take precedence over learning to see the field and make a good pass. Too many kids that start off as great dribblers mature into ball hogs that cannot connect a decent pass, which just encourages them to keep the ball until they are dispossessed.


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## Mystery Train (Sep 11, 2018)

Primetime said:


> Find a club that has proven pathways and proven track record of player development.


This line has Director of Coaching-speak written all over it.   Not trying to yank your chain here.  I am genuinely curious about that statement.

Can you define what a track record of player development would look like?  I've had lots of experience with clubs that tout such things.  They generally post their college commits every year on their website, and keep a running tally of all the great players who have gone on to play college over the years.  Funny thing is, that when you dig deeper on each individual player, almost all of them played significant years of their early youth career for different clubs.  It's more rare to find a college player who has done their entire club career with just one club.  And the other question is the chicken-or-egg argument.  If naturally gifted and driven athletes flock together at the same club, is it the club or the players that are creating the "track record?"

"Pathways" and "development" to me are myths.  I would love to be wrong about that, but I haven't seen any club that can prove they provide these services.  What I have seen is that clubs can provide coaching.  Sometimes the coaching is very good and sometimes the coaching is very bad, and very often just ok.  And I don't see that any club has a monopoly on either bad or good or just ok coaches.  I do know clubs who, from the very top down, try their best to collect good coaches and encourage a certain brand of soccer.  But even at those places, they will poach a top player from another club in a heart beat and make no apologies for bragging about their on-field results later.

You make a case for "stability" and argue that parents are the ones disrupting the developmental process by moving clubs.  Yet, in the same breath, you say "coaches and players come and go" and it's the "program" that's important to call home.  That's DOC speak for, "We're going to shuffle our coaches every year, fire people and hire new ones, so don't pack up your wallet and leave when we fire the one coach you liked, because it's all about the PROGRAM/PATHWAY." In my experience, the smaller clubs generally have a few strong coaches that start with a group of kids usually around U12-13, and coach them year after year until they age out.  At the big clubs, the coaching carousel is non-stop.  Every year, it's a different coach and some of these guys must have a different colored tracksuit for every day of the week, they've been re-cycled through so many clubs.  That's why, my default advice to every parent on this forum is always: Find a good _*coach*_ first and foremost, and league/level is secondary.  But when making these decisions, the _*club*_ means absolute zero in the equation.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 11, 2018)

outside! said:


> *In my opinion, the coach and the players are much more important than the club since more than 90% of the time is spent with the team.*.


This, a million times. Don't fall for the "this club..." line. Clubs nearly all have good and bad teams, good and bad coaches, and a whole bunch in the middle.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 11, 2018)

Mystery Train said:


> This line has Director of Coaching-speak written all over it.   Not trying to yank your chain here.  I am genuinely curious about that statement.
> 
> Can you define what a track record of player development would look like?  I've had lots of experience with clubs that tout such things.  They generally post their college commits every year on their website, and keep a running tally of all the great players who have gone on to play college over the years.  Funny thing is, that when you dig deeper on each individual player, almost all of them played significant years of their early youth career for different clubs.  It's more rare to find a college player who has done their entire club career with just one club.  And the other question is the chicken-or-egg argument.  If naturally gifted and driven athletes flock together at the same club, is it the club or the players that are creating the "track record?"
> 
> ...


Wonderful post. So good I wanted to quote it in case anyone missed it!


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## El Clasico (Sep 11, 2018)

Primetime said:


> Find a club that has proven pathways and proven track record of player development.


I agree!! With 3 already in college and one more a couple of years out, I still have no f'ing idea what that line of bullsh*t means.  It must be in the Club Soccer marketing manual because I see it used a lot. I guess if you are new to the racket and don't know better, it would seem to make sense...which is why it is so commonly said to parents of the youngers.


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## timbuck (Sep 11, 2018)

Pathway, pathway, pathway, development. 
Development, development, development, pathway. 
Player first, player first, player first, possession. 
Professional coaching, professional coaching, scholarship. 
That’s all I see when I read club marketing materials.


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## Messi>CR7 (Sep 11, 2018)

outside! said:


> Maybe we have been fortunate, but every time our players have changed teams it has been a positive move. In my opinion, the coach and the players are much more important than the club since more than 90% of the time is spent with the team. DD changed teams and clubs 3 times (and had 7 coaches) before heading off to play in college. Each team and coach helped her development. My son has changed teams 5 times now, clubs 4 times (back to the original club) and is now with a great coach and team. In our experience, a good trainer for private lessons is just as important as the coach and team. To the OP, while it is important to gain confidence in dribbling, do not let it take precedence over learning to see the field and make a good pass. Too many kids that start off as great dribblers mature into ball hogs that cannot connect a decent pass, which just encourages them to keep the ball until they are dispossessed.


This is spot on.  To the OP, the following paragraph is stated in La Masia's (FC Barcelona's academy) website:

_"Possession of the ball is a great force for the blaugrana teams and passing it around is the greatest tribute one can pay to the game of football."_


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## atvahc (Sep 11, 2018)

I would say that if your DD interprets the coach's yelling as pressure to play her best and compete for playing time, then she can absolutely develop from that situation.  She will undoubtedly run into coaches in her career that can be harsh and even nasty, so if this helps her grow a thicker skin, that can help as well. However, if the effect is that she is losing confidence and playing with fear - ie: if I make a mistake, I will get in trouble/get subbed/get demeaned, etc, then I would say to get away from that environment.  Players need to learn how to read the game and feel empowered to express themselves on the field.  This will lead to mistakes sometimes, but it will also lead to them seeing that the things they practice can work in game situations.  If all we do is train our players to play scared and play "not to lose" instead of playing with confidence and creativity, then we have a problem.  Just my 2 cents...


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## Primetime (Sep 12, 2018)

Mystery Train said:


> This line has Director of Coaching-speak written all over it.   Not trying to yank your chain here.  I am genuinely curious about that statement.
> 
> Can you define what a track record of player development would look like?  I've had lots of experience with clubs that tout such things.  They generally post their college commits every year on their website, and keep a running tally of all the great players who have gone on to play college over the years.  Funny thing is, that when you dig deeper on each individual player, almost all of them played significant years of their early youth career for different clubs.  It's more rare to find a college player who has done their entire club career with just one club.  And the other question is the chicken-or-egg argument.  If naturally gifted and driven athletes flock together at the same club, is it the club or the players that are creating the "track record?"
> 
> ...


       Part of my point is similar to your last statements.   100% agree a coach is a priority but with so much movement on their side too what happens when you go to a club for a coach and he/she leaves after a year ?  Right or wrong it happens for a million different reasons.   That's why I said look around within the club at what other options they have at your kids age.   You might go there for that coach but if they have 3-4 other reallly good coaches at that age you wouldn't mind playing for then that to me would be a really good option.  I'd much rather change teams within a club than change clubs all together.   Especially because if clubs are doing a god job then their teams and age groups should be working together to begin with so there's some familiarity should that unfortunate situation occur.


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## Primetime (Sep 12, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> Do you happen to know the name of this wonderful club?


There's


Eagle33 said:


> Do you happen to know the name of this wonderful club?


There's plenty.  Not one is right for all, never is.   Depends on all the factors each parent/player has to evaluate when choosing where to play.  Too many different factors for everyone so it's not a one size fits all.


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## younothat (Sep 12, 2018)

Mystery Train said:


> This line has Director of Coaching-speak written all over it.   Not trying to yank your chain here.  I am genuinely curious about that statement.
> 
> Can you define what a track record of player development would look like?  I've had lots of experience with clubs that tout such things.  They generally post their college commits every year on their website, and keep a running tally of all the great players who have gone on to play college over the years.  Funny thing is, that when you dig deeper on each individual player, almost all of them played significant years of their early youth career for different clubs.  It's more rare to find a college player who has done their entire club career with just one club.  And the other question is the chicken-or-egg argument.  If naturally gifted and driven athletes flock together at the same club, is it the club or the players that are creating the "track record?"
> 
> ...


What is a club in the united states anyway?  A street address?   Hey I live on 1st street or I play for the 1st street club.   Really just a fictitious name to do business (DBA).  The dba can actually be in a different name vs the  actually club name as we seen with the with the tax filings.

So what does a "club" in the US mean?  Right now, it doesn't mean much.  There should be a culture formed around being a club member.  But that's not the case here, with the affiliate explosion that's has just been getting farther away from a consistent culture.

In other countries  being a club member means so much more; they own facilities,  have club hosted activities, parties, gyms, they have partnerships and integration with real schools, they often times have multiple sports programs, they are connected to the neighborhoods, etc.  and members have voting rights on what they want out of the club.  They teach a consistent methodology, style of play, have a clear "pathway" to promote or be let go.

Being part of a club should really means something, right?

For example if you wanted to play some pick up games …the club has some open field access available for members who can play whenever.

How about discounted private math tutoring? the club could make that available to all member.

How about a futsal program or quick access to sports medicine. nutrition, or the like rather than hey just do this or pay this other  person or separate corporation if you're interested, so everyone is doing there own thing in different directions.

Wait but my club does these "friday night" skills session. where a couple of coaches heard a bunch of people together do run drills?   Beyond most 10 yr old most are bored to death with this kind of stuff or don't attend.

Being part of a club should really mean something! Right now not sure means much besides your street address or the jersey worn.


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## Primetime (Sep 12, 2018)

Primetime said:


> Find a club that has proven pathways and proven track record of player development.


Couple things HELP define those topics.   First Does the club even have higher level teams or programs ? I.e. DA, ECNL, EGSL, CRL, EPL, Discovery, Premier, etc.   If the Clubs highest level team at your kids age is Silver, Silver Elite 
 Or Flight 2 then obviously there's very little room for growth or a vey short pathway for them to travel going forward should they outgrow the other players on the team.   Second,  if they do indeed have those pathways to higher levels is there a history of players moving up the ranks within the club ? Example Can you see players that started perhaps on a flight 2 team in the club now are on the ECNL team.  That would suggest player development.   Is the club hosting internal player ID camps and practices or as someone mentioned are they just recruiting top players from outside?  Obviously there's gonna be a percentage of both but to what extent.   What's the opportunity for your player ?  Is there an attainable goal or higher level team within their reach?.   How did the higher level teams get there ? Were they built mostly within the club or a core of a team that's moved up together ? That would be a proven track record.    Every club sells the Bull$#it of its top achievements which is for the very small select few.   But the reality is and should be in a similar direction just on a smaller scale.   Part of it is club size.  Right or wrong it's what's happened to the landscape.   when going to a club that might only have 1 team at an age group the opportunities for kids on that team are gonna be very limited.  In both directions.  Should that 1 team have a great coach and stay together and grow to achieve alot there will absolutely be players along the way that aren't capable of keeping up.  Where do they go ? Opportunities for players means both ways.  Not just up.   And vice verse for the players that may out grow the team.   Someone mentioned clubs that post about all the college commits.  Yes there are clubs that place a lot of kids in college, that would also help define a proven track record or pathway.   Now they could be right in that many kids may not have started there but at the end of the day they obviously ended up there, very likely for that specific reason of helping get into college.   So I would argue that while yes they may not have been there all along (which may very well be impossible these days anyways, lol)  players who are there earlier on share the same opportunities.   

Obviously everything depends on goals and aspirations for every player and they're all different.   Some kids goals are to make the varsity team at the local high school in which case the smaller community programs might serve great as that tool.  And obviously I'm talking about slightly older 11v11 age groups.  If we're talking about 7-10 year olds then relax.  sit back and enjoy the fun years while they last.  Keep em where they're at as long as it's a fun,safe and healthy Environment.   If they need to improve get em a little training on the side.  #imoutofhotair


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## Eagle33 (Sep 12, 2018)

Primetime said:


> Couple things HELP define those topics.   First Does the club even have higher level teams or programs ? I.e. DA, ECNL, EGSL, CRL, EPL, Discovery, Premier, etc.   If the Clubs highest level team at your kids age is Silver, Silver Elite
> Or Flight 2 then obviously there's very little room for growth or a vey short pathway for them to travel going forward should they outgrow the other players on the team.   Second,  if they do indeed have those pathways to higher levels is there a history of players moving up the ranks within the club ? Example Can you see players that started perhaps on a flight 2 team in the club now are on the ECNL team.  That would suggest player development.   Is the club hosting internal player ID camps and practices or as someone mentioned are they just recruiting top players from outside?  Obviously there's gonna be a percentage of both but to what extent.   What's the opportunity for your player ?  Is there an attainable goal or higher level team within their reach?.   How did the higher level teams get there ? Were they built mostly within the club or a core of a team that's moved up together ? That would be a proven track record.    Every club sells the Bull$#it of its top achievements which is for the very small select few.   But the reality is and should be in a similar direction just on a smaller scale.   Part of it is club size.  Right or wrong it's what's happened to the landscape.   when going to a club that might only have 1 team at an age group the opportunities for kids on that team are gonna be very limited.  In both directions.  Should that 1 team have a great coach and stay together and grow to achieve alot there will absolutely be players along the way that aren't capable of keeping up.  Where do they go ? Opportunities for players means both ways.  Not just up.   And vice verse for the players that may out grow the team.   Someone mentioned clubs that post about all the college commits.  Yes there are clubs that place a lot of kids in college, that would also help define a proven track record or pathway.   Now they could be right in that many kids may not have started there but at the end of the day they obviously ended up there, very likely for that specific reason of helping get into college.   So I would argue that while yes they may not have been there all along (which may very well be impossible these days anyways, lol)  players who are there earlier on share the same opportunities.
> 
> Obviously everything depends on goals and aspirations for every player and they're all different.   Some kids goals are to make the varsity team at the local high school in which case the smaller community programs might serve great as that tool.  And obviously I'm talking about slightly older 11v11 age groups.  If we're talking about 7-10 year olds then relax.  sit back and enjoy the fun years while they last.  Keep em where they're at as long as it's a fun,safe and healthy Environment.   If they need to improve get em a little training on the side.  #imoutofhotair


You lost me at: "if they do indeed have those pathways to higher levels..." and I felt into sleep, sorry. What was this all about?


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## coachsamy (Sep 12, 2018)

younothat said:


> So what does a "club" in the US mean?


The perceived club "prestige" is one of the main drivers in the Ulittle scene. It's all part of having that social status in which I can tell [with swagger] my "friends" that my kid plays  for the biggest Kool-Aid brand there is and if you are not part of it, you are missing out on the biggest thing happening now! 

A "club" in the US is a socioeconomical robbery conducted by tracksuits wearing used car salesmen that gives parents a false sense of great self worth.


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Sep 12, 2018)

Desert619 said:


> I like the advice I get on here and i have another “what would you do question?”
> 
> DD is age 10, she was at the same club for 4 years playing flight 2. One of the top players on the team. She was having fun and very comfortable.
> 
> ...


Yelling hurts some players, helps others. It's all about knowing your child and what will light a fight under her vs burn her out. Remember that you shouldn't try too hard to put yourself in her shoes, she will be different from you. It sounds like she doesn't mind it and doesn't take it personally.

If you just want to have fun, then being the best player on a team does that. But if you want to improve: neither be the best, nor worst player on the team. Seen a lot of wasted potential because the "best" player just enjoys being relied upon and styling on the other team instead of learning the game.

Creative play is overrated. Look at the last World Cup. The Latin American countries pride themselves in having better foot skills than other countries, and they do (*cough* Croatia). However, not a single one made it into the semi-finals. Passing, high press, strength, set pieces, and headers are the game now.
I've also seen many younger undisciplined teams stomp their opponents at the younger age levels, and that same team blows up and never wins as they get older. My younger brother just reffed a team that won a U8 7v7 final with 4 right forwards (because none of the kids wanted to play left forward and the coach caved. Don't get me started on their "defense")(Obviously, an extreme example, but it serves my point via microcosm). These kids were all skilled creative players, but I think unless they change clubs fast, they will put a ceiling on their soccer career.

Meanwhile the more disciplined teams learning to properly pass and play out of the back when they are little; they constantly lose because of the inevitable mistakes (to coaches that abuse the build out line rules), but then they start winning as they get older because they have started learning the system sooner. Every new thing will have growing pains, and the disciplined team can get through them and bear the losses for longer term benefits.

That all being said, creative play is not bad in itself, she should continue to train on her own, it will giver her a leg up in the future. But she needs the team play "pass, pass" not for a leg up, but just to be on the same starting line as the other girls.


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## focomoso (Sep 13, 2018)

Desert619 said:


> He doesn’t encourage dribbling, skills and creative play. It’s “pass, pass,pass!!” All day long.


Watch any high level team play. Watch the DA's practice. What do they do all day? "Pass, pass, pass." Because 45% of soccer is passing (with another 45% being defending and 5% for dribbling and another 5% for finishing). It used to be that defenders defended, midfielders passed and strikers/wingers finished, but that's not the game anymore. Now everyone (including center backs and goalies and strikers) has to be able to pass. Great passing is what makes players great.


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## GKDad65 (Sep 13, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> The perceived club "prestige" is one of the main drivers in the Ulittle scene. It's all part of having that social status in which I can tell [with swagger] my "friends" that my kid plays  for the biggest Kool-Aid brand there is and if you are not part of it, you are missing out on the biggest thing happening now!
> 
> A "club" in the US is a socioeconomical robbery conducted by tracksuits wearing used car salesmen that gives parents a false sense of great self worth.




My club is the "best" because they told me so!!

...and they use words like, "Academy", and "Elite", and "PDA", and "ABC", "DEF",...........


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