# U15/05 Girls Academy/ECNL WNT Pool



## gotothebushes

What's going on with the 05 age group? There's no chatter on how the season is going for any teams. 05's can't be that boring! Curious to get a pulse on both leagues how teams are looking this season. Question regarding U15 National Team pool- Do they normally select players heavily from DA or ECNL? I'm hearing in Socal to get a sniff at a national camp call up you should been in a DA program. Is there any truth to that. Seems wrong to me if that's the case.

Also- is there any U15 National Team invite camps scheduled for this upcoming weekend in San Diego. I've heard a few girls from Norcal got invited up to San Diego for a camp invite.


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## silverback

gotothebushes said:


> What's going on with the 05 age group? There's no chatter on how the season is going for any teams. 05's can't be that boring! Curious to get a pulse on both leagues how teams are looking this season. Question regarding U15 National Team pool- Do they normally select players heavily from DA or ECNL? I'm hearing in Socal to get a sniff at a national camp call up you should been in a DA program. Is there any truth to that. Seems wrong to me if that's the case.
> 
> Also- is there any U15 National Team invite camps scheduled for this upcoming weekend in San Diego. I've heard a few girls from Norcal got invited up to San Diego for a camp invite.


FWIW there were a decent number of girls from ECNL at the recent U14 YNT regional camp.


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## Soccerhelper

silverback said:


> FWIW there were a decent number of girls from ECNL at the recent U14 YNT regional camp.


It's great to see 60 girls invited.  That's a good number by the way nice of them to bring some ECNL goats to the camp. Let's just make sure no inside recruiting is goin on like last year.  Rumor Rumor Rumor  Tip for those who are paying attention. Look to see where the ECNL players are playing next year


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## ToonArmy

LAFC Slammers is 11-0-0 I don't think they lost a game all of last year until the ECNL national title game. It's unfortunate they arent in DA would be good competion great games with them and Surf, Galaxy, Beach, Legends, Blues


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## gotothebushes

ToonArmy said:


> LAFC Slammers is 11-0-0 I don't think they lost a game all of last year until the ECNL national title game. It's unfortunate they arent in DA would be good competion great games with them and Surf, Galaxy, Beach, Legends, Blues


I would throw that Thorns team in the mix with Socal teams. Doesn't matter if in DA or ECNL just the players get recognized. Throw in Quakes, Placer and Mustangs. All are good teams. Wonder how they select these players from DA if not having any scouts at games. Doesn't make any sense.


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## Soccerfan2

There are ‘05 ECNL players in the U15 NTC pool as well as in the U15 YNT pool. There are more DA players than ECNL, but ECNL is certainly still represented. Scouts do watch some games in person, and they watch some film when they can’t physically be at games.

The U14 camp in Chula Vista was a regional camp. It already happened in the beginning of February and yes there were several NorCal girls invited.


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## futboldad1

ToonArmy said:


> LAFC Slammers is 11-0-0 I don't think they lost a game all of last year until the ECNL national title game. It's unfortunate they arent in DA would be good competion great games with them and Surf, Galaxy, Beach, Legends, Blues


Lol out of that group you listed only Surf my DDs old team.....and maybe on one of their good days Galaxy.....would be able to give LAFC a game.....they are loaded with young goats.....


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## gotothebushes

futboldad1 said:


> Lol out of that group you listed only Surf my DDs old team.....and maybe on one of their good days Galaxy.....would be able to give LAFC a game.....they are loaded with young goats.....


Surf and Galaxy are good team but give Norcal a little credit here. I saw LAFC Slammers play in Florida and the team is solid but not unbeatable. We have some young goats here in DA too.


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## futboldad1

gotothebushes said:


> Surf and Galaxy are good team but give Norcal a little credit here. I saw LAFC Slammers play in Florida and the team is solid but not unbeatable. We have some young goats here in DA too.


I was referring only to the list of teams given in that post.....NorCal has some great teams no doubt......but to call LAFC only solid is a bit tough.....but true they are beatable as pda and Barcelona proved.....


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## ToonArmy

And Heat beat them in Vegas cup and Rush Hawaii in regionals both in 2018 yes they are barely beatable was never trying to say they wouldn't be on top of DA just saying it would be hard a lot tougher and a bigger challenge to keep going unbeaten through the grind of a season against that competion and would be fun to see


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## gotothebushes

futboldad1 said:


> I was referring only to the list of teams given in that post.....NorCal has some great teams no doubt......but to call LAFC only solid is a bit tough.....but true they are beatable as pda and Barcelona proved.....


Ahh Gotcha! That pda didn’t really impress me for some reason. I can’t point at one thing but it’s just something about that team that doesn’t sit well to me. That Barcelona team was pretty good. I water the champion game and there first goal as they built out the back and the mid overlap straight to goal was unreal. You really don’t see that type of movement at that age group.


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## ToonArmy

gotothebushes said:


> I would throw that Thorns team in the mix with Socal teams. Doesn't matter if in DA or ECNL just the players get recognized. Throw in Quakes, Placer and Mustangs. All are good teams. Wonder how they select these players from DA if not having any scouts at games. Doesn't make any sense.


Love that Thorns team beautiful soccer


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## gotothebushes

ToonArmy said:


> Love that Thorns team beautiful soccer


Beautiful soccer can only take you so far though! LOL


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## girlsrule7

U15 YNT camp will be in California next week.  Imagine roster will be public soon, this is the next camp after the 60 person camp in October.  Decent number of ECNL girls will be there


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## Soccerhelper

ToonArmy said:


> And Heat beat them in Vegas cup and Rush Hawaii in regionals both in 2018 yes they are barely beatable was never trying to say they wouldn't be on top of DA just saying it would be hard a lot tougher and a bigger challenge to keep going unbeaten through the grind of a season against that competion and would be fun to see


If LAFC played in the Pac 12 they would have a few loses is what your trying to say.  I do like how they play.  Both LAFC 04 and 05 teams are solid.  MLVA is my favorite team to watch 04.


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## ToonArmy

Soccerhelper said:


> If LAFC played in the Pac 12 they would have a few loses is what your trying to say.  I do like how they play.  Both LAFC 04 and 05 teams are solid.  MLVA is my favorite team to watch 04.


Ha maybe. One of their goats was freshman at Troy hs scoring many goals was ocvaristy athlete of the week one week

Just saying those teams I listed as well as Surf soon to be ecnl for a day then dpl were the top finishing 8 teams in national cup the last time 05s played national cup and LAFC doesn't get to play any of them since then.


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## Swoosh

Reality is one group of kids train year round, the other group of kids play high school soccer.


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## oh canada

gotothebushes said:


> Wonder how they select these players from DA if not having any scouts at games. Doesn't make any sense.


Coach recommendation so parent politics can get involved.

As others have stated, a sprinkle of ecnl players invited, but heavily skewed DA.  Then the US Soccer folks suggest to the ecnl players they should think about moving to DA clubs.


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## Soccerhelper

oh canada said:


> Coach recommendation so parent politics can get involved.
> 
> As others have stated, a sprinkle of ecnl players invited, but heavily skewed DA.  Then the US Soccer folks suggest to the ecnl players they should think about moving to DA clubs.


Coach and then Doc with a final recommendation.  At least with ODP all 50 sates had a a team to try and beat the Goliath.  The top 100 would then play and the YNT Coaches picked the best goats of that day.  You have to bring it that day when all eyes are watching. There is no way the top 100 players in this country today are getting a looksey.  Also, all the poor girls are locked out.


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## Yousername

Girls U-15 National Team Camp roster was announced today. Only 3 girls from the So Cal region.








						U-15 Girls’ National Team to Hold First Training Camp of 2020
					

34 Players Born in 2005 Come to U.S. Soccer National Training Center in Carson, Calif.




					www.ussoccer.com


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## Soccerfan2

4 from NorCal!

SoCal also has 3 U15 age players playing up. One is with the U17’s and two are with the U16’s.


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## futboldad1

Congrats to the talented DDs on this list....and this is not meant to take away at all from their AWESOME recognition.......5 So'Cal '05 made the YNT....that is O.K. but I would like to know U.S. Soccers justification for how zero of these 5 play for the LAFC Slammers G'05 team....once these goats get to college they will dominate and show how political this KIDS game has gotten to be when they get the call to THE BIG TEAM......


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## Woobie06

futboldad1 said:


> Congrats to the talented DDs on this list....and this is not meant to take away at all from their AWESOME recognition.......5 So'Cal '05 made the YNT....that is O.K. but I would like to know U.S. Soccers justification for how zero of these 5 play for the LAFC Slammers G'05 team....once these goats get to college they will dominate and show how political this KIDS game has gotten to be when they get the call to THE BIG TEAM......


They don’t play DA...not saying it is right, but what it looks like.


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## Kicker4Life

Woobie06 said:


> They don’t play DA...not saying it is right, but what it looks like.


There are several non DA players in that list.


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## tjinaz

Kicker4Life said:


> There are several non DA players in that list.


of the 2 from AZ one is DA the other ECNL.


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## timbuck

futboldad1 said:


> Congrats to the talented DDs on this list....and this is not meant to take away at all from their AWESOME recognition.......5 So'Cal '05 made the YNT....that is O.K. but I would like to know U.S. Soccers justification for how zero of these 5 play for the LAFC Slammers G'05 team....once these goats get to college they will dominate and show how political this KIDS game has gotten to be when they get the call to THE BIG TEAM......


I was wondering the same thing. I wonder if it’s because they play so well as a team (many of them have been together for quite a while) that they don’t stand out individually. 
Are they too tactical and not technical enough? 
Or too technical and not tactical enough?
Are they just athletes with no soccer IQ?  
Or are they not physical enough for what US Soccer wants?
Do they play a different system that what US Soccer wants to see?  
Does someone at Us Soccer have a grudge against their coach or against Slammers?


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## Soccerhelper

timbuck said:


> I was wondering the same thing. I wonder if it’s because they play so well as a team (many of them have been together for quite a while) that they don’t stand out individually.
> Are they too tactical and not technical enough?
> Or too technical and not tactical enough?
> Are they just athletes with no soccer IQ?
> Or are they not physical enough for what US Soccer wants?
> Do they play a different system that what US Soccer wants to see?
> Does someone at Us Soccer have a grudge against their coach or against Slammers?


LAFC/Slammers made their move two years ago and as of today, I think it's the best move for the girls in OC.  I've seen both 04 and 05 teams play and to not have at least one out of the two teams is cruel.  Also, the Slammers girl that did make it last year is now hanging at the Beach and on YNT. Strikers is awesome too and have a healthy plan for girls not wanting the DA Way.  DA is not too happy with Slammers and it shows.  OC is where the epicenter is.  The parents right here could help make a shift but I don;t think it will happen this year.  Next year maybe.


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## Soccerhelper

These Lists are kind of funny to me today.  We all know their is about 8-10 super studits at each age.  If a coach or scout passes up on one of these goats they will get fired.  It's the other 60-80 kids and where they fit in the pecking order that has most of us confused.  When my dd went to her first ODP tryout, I saw one girl who I had never seen before run past everyone.  Needed some work with the ball, (don't they all) but was fast as lightning.  I told everyone, "she's a lock."  A few more stood out and then it was a hope and a prayer for the final 14 or so.  That's where things get a little sticky. I'm not trying to run for Cal South parent board position at all. I'm just pointing out 100 kids on a list from socal playing for bragging rights is better than 5 picks from a staff from the DA.  I think it's time we start talking about these YNT teams taking on those in the ECNL to push them.  For those outside of ECNL who feel they wants a looksy, accommodations will be made for a coach to see you play.  We can raise fundraising money at these games to help the poor kids play in the GDA too for free. It makes all the sense in the world.  It's time for the games to begin.  We see the three teams picked for 2020 in U15, U16 and U17 age group.  I already have sponsorship's available and private donations so all kids selected to play will not have to pay a dime.   Plus it will help the Nations Best take on a few other players who might think otherwise.  It would be a good test, to test the best, and something everyone is dying to see   Is this just wishful thinking?


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## timbuck

Here's an interesting thought-
What if the LAFC Slammers 05 team skipped practice one day and attended the DA tryouts at Blues, Pats or West Coast/OC Surf.  If their roster was interested in DA, how many of them would get offers?  How many girls from the current DA teams would be told "Sorry, we are filling your spot.  You can play on the DPL team if you want."


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## LASTMAN14

Kicker4Life said:


> There are several non DA players in that list.


There is another 05 training on 3/18. That list includes 3 ECNL players (2 LAFC and 1 Rebels). It also includes the 3 DA So Cal players attending the 3/2-3/8 training.


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## LASTMAN14

timbuck said:


> Here's an interesting thought-
> What if the LAFC Slammers 05 team skipped practice one day and attended the DA tryouts at Blues, Pats or West Coast/OC Surf.  If their roster was interested in DA, how many of them would get offers?  How many girls from the current DA teams would be told "Sorry, we are filling your spot.  You can play on the DPL team if you want."


You'd be surprised that many would not. All coaches are subjective having their own preferences.


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## Soccerhelper

LASTMAN14 said:


> There is another 05 training on 3/18. That list includes 3 ECNL players (2 LAFC and 1 Rebels). It also includes the 3 DA So Cal players attending the 3/2-3/8 training.


Only one list counts lastman.  The one's in England bro and this last U15 list.  These Lists filter over to social marketing for potential revenue eyes.  It seems odd to me that not one studit from Slammers made the final cut?  Maybe next time.


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## shales1002

Kicker4Life said:


> There are several non DA players in that list.


All I can say is that press releases don’t put how many hail from the GDA. However, it is greatly skewed in GDA’s favor. Maybe one day the federation will get back to picking the best of the best.


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## Soccerhelper

shales1002 said:


> All I can say is that press releases don’t put how many hail from the GDA. However, it is greatly skewed in GDA’s favor. Maybe one day the federation will get back to picking the best of the best.


Well, we know right now who the top 24 in the country are in the 05s, 04s and with 03s.  So now the rest can take on the best of the best of 2020


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## LASTMAN14

Soccerhelper said:


> Only one list counts lastman.  The one's in England bro and this last U15 list.  These Lists filter over to social marketing for potential revenue eyes.  It seems odd to me that not one studit from Slammers made the final cut?  Maybe next time.


Your right and it has not been produced.


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## Kicker4Life

Soccerhelper said:


> Only one list counts lastman.  The one's in England bro and this last U15 list.  These Lists filter over to social marketing for potential revenue eyes.  It seems odd to me that not one studit from Slammers made the final cut?  Maybe next time.


They are u16, not u15......that list will likely change for the next event.  If my DD isn’t on it, can I borrow your tin foil hat and cry foul too?


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## Soccerhelper

Kicker4Life said:


> They are u16, not u15......that list will likely change for the next event.  If my DD isn’t on it, can I borrow your tin foil hat and cry foul too?


I have no tin foil and you of all people have no reason to cry foul Kicker if your goat misses this next event. I do have one ask though?


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## gotothebushes

LASTMAN14 said:


> There is another 05 training on 3/18. That list includes 3 ECNL players (2 LAFC and 1 Rebels). It also includes the 3 DA So Cal players attending the 3/2-3/8 training.


There's another 05 training on 3/11 for Norcal that includes 5/6 ENCL players which are well deserved. Its so strange how they are holding a National Camp event 3/2-3/8 before when having US training for Norcal/Socal a week after. Either way this is great for the girls and I wish them all the success.


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## gotothebushes

gotothebushes said:


> There's another 05 training on 3/11 for Norcal that includes 5/6 ENCL players which are well deserved. Its so strange how they are holding a National Camp event 3/2-3/8 before when having US training for Norcal/Socal a week after. Either way this is great for the girls and I wish them all the success.
> 
> My mistake! Out of 23 Norcal training pool players for 3/11, out of 23 players there's 10 ECNL players. So its pretty balanced here.


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## Soccerfan2

It’s worth noting that of the 10 ‘05 ECNL players that are invited to the NorCal NTC on 3/10, 2 are players that have been in the YNT pool for a couple years already. 3 more of those have been attending NTC’s for a long time.

I’ve been able to watch this group closely over the past 4 years and the NorCal NTC’s have always had a good number of ECNL players. Additionally, there are always a few new faces in there. A large number of the strong players in the area have been able to attend NTC at least once.


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## Woobie06

Kicker4Life said:


> There are several non DA players in that list.


That is very true.  I was being a bit snarky...but I do agree with another poster that there seems to be a bit of a DA bias.


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## gotothebushes

Soccerfan2 said:


> It’s worth noting that of the 10 ‘05 ECNL players that are invited to the NorCal NTC on 3/10, 2 are players that have been in the YNT pool for a couple years already. 3 more of those have been attending NTC’s for a long time.
> 
> I’ve been able to watch this group closely over the past 4 years and the NorCal NTC’s have always had a good number of ECNL players. Additionally, there are always a few new faces in there. A large number of the strong players in the area have been able to attend NTC at least once.


Yeah it’s strange how things work with DA and ECNL. Both great clubs I might add but I think US soccer tends to all give ECNL players enough recognition because there DOC wouldn’t get on board and sign there club in DA. US soccer is slapping these ECNL clubs hand and not allowing players to NT training camps. I could be wrong but it totally seems that way. Some DA clubs should reconsider some of these players chosen to the pool. If they truly have US soccer scout really watching these games and this is the selection pool there choosing - then it’s totally political with the DA clubs. I even hear in Socal some DA coaches recruit kids to there club saying if you join I can get you an opportunity with then NTC. Not right! Not right at all!


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## Soccerfan2

gotothebushes said:


> Yeah it’s strange how things work with DA and ECNL. Both great clubs I might add but I think US soccer tends to all give ECNL players enough recognition because there DOC wouldn’t get on board and sign there club in DA. US soccer is slapping these ECNL clubs hand and not allowing players to NT training camps. I could be wrong but it totally seems that way. Some DA clubs should reconsider some of these players chosen to the pool. If they truly have US soccer scout really watching these games and this is the selection pool there choosing - then it’s totally political with the DA clubs. I even hear in Socal some DA coaches recruit kids to there club saying if you join I can get you an opportunity with then NTC. Not right! Not right at all!


We might have different perspectives on this one.


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## gotothebushes

Soccerfan2 said:


> We might have different perspectives on this one.


 @Soccerfan2- I have no facts to back this up. Its just my opinion and things I've heard over the years. I could be totally wrong and I hope I am. Both clubs should have the best girls representing there clubs. These girls work to hard not to get an invite because we all know 70% of players on these list won't be around at U19/U20. So let these girls enjoy these little opportunities and hopefully the experience will turn these women into great college students. That should be there end goal.


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## timmyh

The most likely reason for any perceived bias towards the DA is because the selection criteria isn't primarily about identifying and developing "who is the best player today" but rather "who has the most potential to become a full YNT player."

US Soccer knows a U15 girl who is slated to train 4 days a week for 10 months a year at a high level (DA) for each of the next four years is going to better fulfill their potential than a girl slated to train 3 days a week for 7 months a year at a high level (ECNL) plus another 3 months of high school soccer for each of the next 4 years.

Common sense tells you the first environment is much more likely to maximize a player's development, and the last decade of experience with the boys has proven that very few elite players come up through the high school pathway anymore when such a large number of others are following the more intensive DA pathway.


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## timmyh

timmyh said:


> The most likely reason for any perceived bias towards the DA is because the selection criteria isn't primarily about identifying and developing "who is the best player today" but rather "who has the most potential to become a full YNT player."
> 
> US Soccer knows a U15 girl who is slated to train 4 days a week for 10 months a year at a high level (DA) for each of the next four years is going to better fulfill their potential than a girl slated to train 3 days a week for 7 months a year at a high level (ECNL) plus another 3 months of high school soccer for each of the next 4 years.
> 
> Common sense tells you the first environment is much more likely to maximize a player's development, and the last decade of experience with the boys has proven that very few elite players come up through the high school pathway anymore when such a large number of others are following the more intensive DA pathway.


It is also true that there much greater opportunities for boys that can justify the sacrifices demanded by the DA pathway (such as no HS soccer), both in terms of the number of professional opportunities and the quality of them (I.e. $$$).  For girls, it's the same sacrifice but without the same sized rewards at the end. There's far fewer pro opportunities and obviously much less money to be made for all but genuine unicorns.

The powers that be don't care about that as they're   required to 1) try and produce winning YNT teams, and 2) not get sued because should they support a pathway for boys and not girls.


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## Soccerfan2

futboldad1 said:


> Congrats to the talented DDs on this list....and this is not meant to take away at all from their AWESOME recognition.......5 So'Cal '05 made the YNT....that is O.K. but I would like to know U.S. Soccers justification for how zero of these 5 play for the LAFC Slammers G'05 team....once these goats get to college they will dominate and show how political this KIDS game has gotten to be when they get the call to THE BIG TEAM......


I notice that there are no LAFC Slammers players on the 2020 id2 roster either. Does it make sense to expect that players that aren’t sorted to the top of the ECNL group (where they don’t even have to compete w DA players) should expect to go through to YNT?


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## davin

Soccerfan2 said:


> I notice that there are no LAFC Slammers players on the 2020 id2 roster either. Does it make sense to expect that players that aren’t sorted to the top of the ECNL group (where they don’t even have to compete w DA players) should expect to go through to YNT?


Where do you get the mistaken idea that the top players in ECNL go to id2?


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## Soccerfan2

davin said:


> Where do you get the mistaken idea that the top players in ECNL go to id2?


It must be US Soccer and the DA preventing it...


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## davin

Soccerfan2 said:


> It must be US Soccer and the DA preventing it...


Obviously you can't/won't answer the question, but nice strawman there and to attempt to deflect. Keep drinking the kool aid.


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## Kicker4Life

timmyh said:


> The most likely reason for any perceived bias towards the DA is because the selection criteria isn't primarily about identifying and developing "who is the best player today" but rather "who has the most potential to become a full YNT player."
> 
> US Soccer knows a U15 girl who is slated to train 4 days a week for 10 months a year at a high level (DA) for each of the next four years is going to better fulfill their potential than a girl slated to train 3 days a week for 7 months a year at a high level (ECNL) plus another 3 months of high school soccer for each of the next 4 years.
> 
> Common sense tells you the first environment is much more likely to maximize a player's development, and the last decade of experience with the boys has proven that very few elite players come up through the high school pathway anymore when such a large number of others are following the more intensive DA pathway.


To expand on that, there is an entirely new staff that has only been in place for a few months....they have to start somewhere


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## timmyh

Kicker4Life said:


> To expand on that, there is an entirely new staff that has only been in place for a few months....they have to start somewhere


Sure. But I think if playing on a YNT is a player's primary goal, the pathway that will likely maximize the possibility is quite clear. There are very valid reasons not to choose it (and for many unfortunately the DA isn't even an option).  But for the most part, I do think people should limit the whining about the impact their own personal decisions are having on themselves when the pros and cons of that decision are perfectly obvious.


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## Soccerfan2

davin said:


> Obviously you can't/won't answer the question, but nice strawman there and to attempt to deflect. Keep drinking the kool aid.


My point is just that there is always selection bias in any system. If there were some obvious standout players that got passed over  on YNT due to politics or whatever, why don’t those players show up elsewhere? I see just 4 players from that team in ODP and none in id2. Are they opting out? I do remember one player from that team from ODP when the girls were younger. Mine is mostly an outsider’s perspective as I don’t know the SoCal player pool well enough. Maybe there is valid answer to this question. 
I can tell you that having had a close up view of the process in NorCal, the two obvious standout players in this age group were picked out early (one before she even played DA and the other was ECNL). After that, it’s not so obvious, and certainly the DA selection bias is going to effect choices from that less than obvious group.


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## Soccerhelper

gotothebushes said:


> Yeah it’s strange how things work with DA and ECNL. Both great clubs I might add but I think US soccer tends to all give ECNL players enough recognition because there DOC wouldn’t get on board and sign there club in DA. US soccer is slapping these ECNL clubs hand and not allowing players to NT training camps. I could be wrong but it totally seems that way. Some DA clubs should reconsider some of these players chosen to the pool. If they truly have US soccer scout really watching these games and this is the selection pool there choosing - then it’s totally political with the DA clubs. I even hear in Socal some DA coaches recruit kids to there club saying if you join I can get you an opportunity with then NTC. Not right! Not right at all!


What?


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## Soccerhelper

timmyh said:


> The most likely reason for any perceived bias towards the DA is because the selection criteria isn't primarily about identifying and developing "who is the best player today" but rather "who has the most potential to become a full YNT player."
> 
> US Soccer knows a U15 girl who is slated to train 4 days a week for 10 months a year at a high level (DA) for each of the next four years is going to better fulfill their potential than a girl slated to train 3 days a week for 7 months a year at a high level (ECNL) plus another 3 months of high school soccer for each of the next 4 years.
> 
> Common sense tells you the first environment is much more likely to maximize a player's development, and the last decade of experience with the boys has proven that very few elite players come up through the high school pathway anymore when such a large number of others are following the more intensive DA pathway.


BC!!!  I don;t like your common sense at all Timmyh.  Who determines "who will be the best player" of the future that has potential?  There are some big time HS School soccer boys out of Texas that have done very well for themselves in the pros.  They can;t afford private school so their locked out of the DA as well. HS Soccer is important to some of us.  Ramos is down there now too.  The men SUCK if you haven;t heard, so any reference to their debacle as any success of DA is bad imo.  What has the DA produced for the men sir? I can;t watch MLS for obvious reasons. The woman are proven winners and I believe regardless of DA or ECNL players, they will win with the olders.   It;s funny to hear you share how one player is different than the other. My dd has done both DA and ECNL.  The top top players who are hard core and actually have a slight chance to be world-class soccer players will always be good.  Plus, 4 days week is a joke and most are not really doing it.  Trust me!!!  The only ones are the ones on the list. My dd does two days week with ECNL, plus privates, (Jason SDA) and the great Von Ronham out of Denmark and then a personal speed and nutritionist specialist that my dd sees once a week to watch what shes eating and make sure she keeps her speed.  On top of that, she runs and dribbles on the beach with her soccer ball three times a week.  And to think she came from being a Part Time Player in the DA all the way to a starter on ECNL.  I'm proud of how hard she has worked and blossomed into the player she is today.  Coach Ronham believes with continued hard work she might finally get her call up to the training center and get another try......lol


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## gotothebushes

Soccerhelper said:


> BC!!!  I don;t like your common sense at all Timmyh.  Who determines "who will be the best player" of the future that has potential?  There are some big time HS School soccer boys out of Texas that have done very well for themselves in the pros.  They can;t afford private school so their locked out of the DA as well. HS Soccer is important to some of us.  Ramos is down there now too.  The men SUCK if you haven;t heard, so any reference to their debacle as any success of DA is bad imo.  What has the DA produced for the men sir? I can;t watch MLS for obvious reasons. The woman are proven winners and I believe regardless of DA or ECNL players, they will win with the olders.   It;s funny to hear you share how one player is different than the other. My dd has done both DA and ECNL.  The top top players who are hard core and actually have a slight chance to be world-class soccer players will always be good.  Plus, 4 days week is a joke and most are not really doing it.  Trust me!!!  The only ones are the ones on the list. My dd does two days week with ECNL, plus privates, (Jason SDA) and the great Von Ronham out of Denmark and then a personal speed and nutritionist specialist that my dd sees once a week to watch what shes eating and make sure she keeps her speed.  On top of that, she runs and dribbles on the beach with her soccer ball three times a week.  And to think she came from being a Part Time Player in the DA all the way to a starter on ECNL.  I'm proud of how hard she has worked and blossomed into the player she is today.  Coach Ronham believes with continued hard work she might finally get her call up to the training center and get another try......lol


Wait? Your dd does two days week with ECNL, plus privates, (Jason SDA) and then finds time for a personal speed and nutritionist specialist once a week to watch what shes eating and make sure she keeps her speed. On top of that, she runs and dribbles on the beach with her soccer ball three times a week? Sounds like 4 days a week to me and then some! Becareful not to over train. Glad she’s found a home.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Soccerfan2 said:


> My point is just that there is always selection bias in any system. If there were some obvious standout players that got passed over  on YNT due to politics or whatever, why don’t those players show up elsewhere? I see just 4 players from that team in ODP and none in id2. Are they opting out? I do remember one player from that team from ODP when the girls were younger. Mine is mostly an outsider’s perspective as I don’t know the SoCal player pool well enough. Maybe there is valid answer to this question.
> I can tell you that having had a close up view of the process in NorCal, the two obvious standout players in this age group were picked out early (one before she even played DA and the other was ECNL). After that, it’s not so obvious, and certainly the DA selection bias is going to effect choices from that less than obvious group.


Yes, this is pretty much my perspective. US soccer has a strong incentive to select their players from their DA program.


----------



## oh canada

timmyh said:


> The most likely reason for any perceived bias towards the DA is because the selection criteria isn't primarily about identifying and developing "who is the best player today" but rather "who has the most potential to become a full YNT player."
> 
> US Soccer knows a U15 girl who is slated to train 4 days a week for 10 months a year at a high level (DA) for each of the next four years is going to better fulfill their potential than a girl slated to train 3 days a week for 7 months a year at a high level (ECNL) plus another 3 months of high school soccer for each of the next 4 years.
> 
> Common sense tells you the first environment is much more likely to maximize a player's development, and the last decade of experience with the boys has proven that very few elite players come up through the high school pathway anymore when such a large number of others are following the more intensive DA pathway.


Maybe DA's sense, but certainly not common sense outside their world.  There's no hard data, studies, evidence etc. that the more restrictive DA training structure and league format produces better girls/women players.  Just US Soccer saying so.  In fact, there is proof to suggest that a long-term environment with a little less soccer or a longer break each year reduces burnout and improves injury-risk rates.  Burnout especially in SoCal where we have year-round weather and are not forced by Mother Nature into alternative programming like indoor or futsal or cancelled weeks due to snow, etc.  Also, factor in that many sports experts are of the opinion that a multisport athlete will be better longer term at soccer (eg, a high school soccer player who also plays basketball, hockey, runs track).  Last, consider that all the women on the USWNT to date have made it to their level (better than all the other players in the World) without the current DA program, by playing multiple sports, and with some freedom of personal choice through their teens.  

The boys side has a bigger disparity of team quality between DA and ECNL, so I would agree with your past 10 years statement for the boys.  But that is beginning to change as well.

ECNL and DA girls are comparable leagues--both having strong teams and weak teams.  Both play about an equal number of games throughout the year.  Both have college showcases to be recruited into the same programs at the next level.  One gives its players a couple more months of freedom away from its league.  For girls, that annual personal choice is a value-add in my book.  Maybe you disagree, and that's fine, but neither of us can say definitively that one league is or will produce better players than the other.  That's marketing hype, which is always easy to fall victim to in our hyper-competitive youth sports scene.  

PS - Don't forget to wash your hands


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## Soccerhelper

davin said:


> Where do you get the mistaken idea that the top players in ECNL go to id2?


All this is so easy to figure out. The non competitive dads who never really fought for a spot on a team, try and bring in really stupid arguments.  Like others have said, we will all look back and see how and who the scouts picked.  Crap, my dd chose HS Soccer and is no longer developable. She went to one TC Camp back in 2016 and was never invited back from the TC Camp Director and US National team staff member ,plus he was the head Doc at the DA Girls Academy in San Diego.


----------



## futboldad1

oh canada said:


> Maybe DA's sense, but certainly not common sense outside their world.  There's no hard data, studies, evidence etc. that the more restrictive DA training structure and league format produces better girls/women players.  Just US Soccer saying so.  In fact, there is proof to suggest that a long-term environment with a little less soccer or a longer break each year reduces burnout and improves injury-risk rates.  Burnout especially in SoCal where we have year-round weather and are not forced by Mother Nature into alternative programming like indoor or futsal or cancelled weeks due to snow, etc.  Also, factor in that many sports experts are of the opinion that a multisport athlete will be better longer term at soccer (eg, a high school soccer player who also plays basketball, hockey, runs track).  Last, consider that all the women on the USWNT to date have made it to their level (better than all the other players in the World) without the current DA program, by playing multiple sports, and with some freedom of personal choice through their teens.
> 
> The boys side has a bigger disparity of team quality between DA and ECNL, so I would agree with your past 10 years statement for the boys.  But that is beginning to change as well.
> 
> ECNL and DA girls are comparable leagues--both having strong teams and weak teams.  Both play about an equal number of games throughout the year.  Both have college showcases to be recruited into the same programs at the next level.  One gives its players a couple more months of freedom away from its league.  For girls, that annual personal choice is a value-add in my book.  Maybe you disagree, and that's fine, but neither of us can say definitively that one league is or will produce better players than the other.  That's marketing hype, which is always easy to fall victim to in our hyper-competitive youth sports scene.
> 
> PS - Don't forget to wash your hands


Great post.....one point to add about the boys, the DA has not made them world class or even close to it as of yet....they're better than than the BoysECNL teams as they have much better prospects and players, hs is not as valued socially, plus there is a pathway to play in the MLS or beyond.....so many differences with girls and boys routes to the top it's hard to compare.....


----------



## Soccerfan2

oh canada said:


> Maybe DA's sense, but certainly not common sense outside their world.  There's no hard data, studies, evidence etc. that the more restrictive DA training structure and league format produces better girls/women players.  Just US Soccer saying so.  In fact, there is proof to suggest that a long-term environment with a little less soccer or a longer break each year reduces burnout and improves injury-risk rates.  Burnout especially in SoCal where we have year-round weather and are not forced by Mother Nature into alternative programming like indoor or futsal or cancelled weeks due to snow, etc.  Also, factor in that many sports experts are of the opinion that a multisport athlete will be better longer term at soccer (eg, a high school soccer player who also plays basketball, hockey, runs track).  Last, consider that all the women on the USWNT to date have made it to their level (better than all the other players in the World) without the current DA program, by playing multiple sports, and with some freedom of personal choice through their teens.
> 
> The boys side has a bigger disparity of team quality between DA and ECNL, so I would agree with your past 10 years statement for the boys.  But that is beginning to change as well.
> 
> ECNL and DA girls are comparable leagues--both having strong teams and weak teams.  Both play about an equal number of games throughout the year.  Both have college showcases to be recruited into the same programs at the next level.  One gives its players a couple more months of freedom away from its league.  For girls, that annual personal choice is a value-add in my book.  Maybe you disagree, and that's fine, but neither of us can say definitively that one league is or will produce better players than the other.  That's marketing hype, which is always easy to fall victim to in our hyper-competitive youth sports scene.
> 
> PS - Don't forget to wash your hands


I agree that neither league is an inherently better development environment. ECNL hyped up the high school option after DA emerged to give itself a competitive advantage. DA hyped up it’s own system. Both environments might or might not be superior development environments based on a number or other outside factors (coaching, individual player motivation, what the kid does outside of club, etc, etc).
If a kid is so obviously head and shoulders above everyone else, YNT will pick them out. They’re not going to turn them away because they play ECNL.
If a kid is a top player, very comparable to many other top players, Timmy is right! Playing in the DA is going to give them a big advantage for YNT selection in the short term both because they are more easily seen by US Soccer scouts at DA games and events and because US soccer has invested in a system that they want to succeed.
YNT always does and will continue to miss some outstanding players, and some will emerge on the college scene and show up in the YNT pool later. But, I think what you will continue to see happen over the next few years is that the powerhouse colleges will primarily keep selecting players from YNT for their starting rosters. The reason for this is not because the US soccer DA machine is keeping other players out - it’s because there are a lot of really great players out there and most of them are interchangeable. If the YNT/WNT pool has a ton of turnover at college age level because all these exceptional ECNL players got the shaft when they were younger, I’ll eat my words.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Soccerfan2 said:


> I agree that neither league is an inherently better development environment. ECNL hyped up the high school option after DA emerged to give itself a competitive advantage. DA hyped up it’s own system. Both environments might or might not be superior development environments based on a number or other outside factors (coaching, individual player motivation, what the kid does outside of club, etc, etc).
> If a kid is so obviously head and shoulders above everyone else, YNT will pick them out. They’re not going to turn them away because they play ECNL.
> If a kid is a top player, very comparable to many other top players, Timmy is right! Playing in the DA is going to give them a big advantage for YNT selection in the short term both because they are more easily seen by US Soccer scouts at DA games and events and because US soccer has invested in a system that they want to succeed.
> YNT always does and will continue to miss some outstanding players, and some will emerge on the college scene and show up in the YNT pool later. But, I think what you will continue to see happen over the next few years is that the powerhouse colleges will primarily keep selecting players from YNT for their starting rosters. The reason for this is not because the US soccer DA machine is keeping other players out - it’s because there are a lot of really great players out there and most of them are interchangeable. If the YNT/WNT pool has a ton of turnover at college age level because all these exceptional ECNL players got the shaft when they were younger, I’ll eat my words.


Great stuff.  When the 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023s all are balling in college, we can all look back and do a social experience and see how it's all going.  That's why Friday the 13th will be it for me until June 15th. Nothing much more to say until then. We see how the ynt picks are now made and I except that as a paying customer.  It sucks. It's time to put up or shut up


----------



## shales1002

Soccerfan2 said:


> I agree that neither league is an inherently better development environment. ECNL hyped up the high school option after DA emerged to give itself a competitive advantage. DA hyped up it’s own system. Both environments might or might not be superior development environments based on a number or other outside factors (coaching, individual player motivation, what the kid does outside of club, etc, etc).
> If a kid is so obviously head and shoulders above everyone else, YNT will pick them out. They’re not going to turn them away because they play ECNL.
> If a kid is a top player, very comparable to many other top players, Timmy is right! Playing in the DA is going to give them a big advantage for YNT selection in the short term both because they are more easily seen by US Soccer scouts at DA games and events and because US soccer has invested in a system that they want to succeed.
> YNT always does and will continue to miss some outstanding players, and some will emerge on the college scene and show up in the YNT pool later. But, I think what you will continue to see happen over the next few years is that the powerhouse colleges will primarily keep selecting players from YNT for their starting rosters. The reason for this is not because the US soccer DA machine is keeping other players out - it’s because there are a lot of really great players out there and most of them are interchangeable. If the YNT/WNT pool has a ton of turnover at college age level because all these exceptional ECNL players got the shaft when they were younger, I’ll eat my words.


Unfortunately, you will be eating your words.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerfan2 said:


> I agree that neither league is an inherently better development environment. ECNL hyped up the high school option after DA emerged to give itself a competitive advantage. DA hyped up it’s own system. Both environments might or might not be superior development environments based on a number or other outside factors (coaching, individual player motivation, what the kid does outside of club, etc, etc).
> If a kid is so obviously head and shoulders above everyone else, YNT will pick them out. They’re not going to turn them away because they play ECNL.
> If a kid is a top player, very comparable to many other top players, Timmy is right! Playing in the DA is going to give them a big advantage for YNT selection in the short term both because they are more easily seen by US Soccer scouts at DA games and events and because US soccer has invested in a system that they want to succeed.
> YNT always does and will continue to miss some outstanding players, and some will emerge on the college scene and show up in the YNT pool later. But, I think what you will continue to see happen over the next few years is that the powerhouse colleges will primarily keep selecting players from YNT for their starting rosters. The reason for this is not because the US soccer DA machine is keeping other players out - it’s because there are a lot of really great players out there and most of them are interchangeable. If the YNT/WNT pool has a ton of turnover at college age level because all these exceptional ECNL players got the shaft when they were younger, I’ll eat my words.


Leagues don't develop players.  Coaches develop players.  The letters on one's jersey don't matter.  The reason that so many players emerge in college and so many disappear is because in an open league (NCAA D1 soccer) the coaches jobs are dependant upon them putting together the best team to win over a short (4 month ) season.  In that kind of a scenario the kids that get it done play and the ones that aren't able sit on the bench.  At the top schools (Stanford, UCLA, North Carolina, Virginia, Florida State, Penn State) there are plenty of players with YNT experience that sit the bench......


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## MakeAPlay

shales1002 said:


> Unfortunately, you will be eating your words.


I agree.


----------



## Soccerhelper

MakeAPlay said:


> Leagues don't develop players.  Coaches develop players.  The letters on one's jersey don't matter.  The reason that so many players emerge in college and so many disappear is because in an open league (NCAA D1 soccer) the coaches jobs are dependant upon them putting together the best team to win over a short (4 month ) season.  In that kind of a scenario the kids that get it done play and the ones that aren't able sit on the bench.  At the top schools (Stanford, UCLA, North Carolina, Virginia, Florida State, Penn State) there are plenty of players with YNT experience that sit the bench......


Nothing wrong with that either for some kids.  Their happy to be at that school and I'm happy for them as well


----------



## Soccerfan2

MakeAPlay said:


> Leagues don't develop players.  Coaches develop players.  The letters on one's jersey don't matter.  The reason that so many players emerge in college and so many disappear is because in an open league (NCAA D1 soccer) the coaches jobs are dependant upon them putting together the best team to win over a short (4 month ) season.  In that kind of a scenario the kids that get it done play and the ones that aren't able sit on the bench.  At the top schools (Stanford, UCLA, North Carolina, Virginia, Florida State, Penn State) there are plenty of players with YNT experience that sit the bench......


I agree with all that. But that’s not the point I was making. How many of the impact players  at those schools have YNT experience prior to coming into college? Maybe someone with more time than me today can count.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerfan2 said:


> I agree with all that. But that’s not the point I was making. How many of the impact players  at those schools have YNT experience prior to coming into college? Maybe someone with more time than me today can count.


28 out 32 players on my daughter's college roster from the 2019 have either YNT or Full National team experience so that isn't a very predictive stat.  The numbers are similar for the other schools that I mentioned.  YNT is just a label that means very little when everyone around you has the same label.  Only 15 players on my kid's team PLAYED in at least half the games and only 12 started half the games or more.  Only 4 players started every game.  The cream rises to the top in the competitive cauldron of college soccer.  The US YNT's don't actually get real competition until the make it to the U20 or U17 WWC and we have done exceptionally bad at those since our last good teams in 2012.


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## LASTMAN14

MakeAPlay said:


> The US YNT's don't actually get real competition until the make it to the U20 or U17 WWC and we have done exceptionally bad at those since our last good teams in 2012.


This is the time and age where a lot has to be said about the roster selections on those two groups. I hope LH is the one to get things headed in the right direction for the U20's.


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## MakeAPlay

Soccerhelper said:


> Nothing wrong with that either for some kids.  Their happy to be at that school and I'm happy for them as well


I didn't say that there was a problem.  I just pointed out that at the top schools it is more unique to have a player that isn't a former YNT player than one that is.  I will say out of the 4 freshman that played the most on her team this season, 2 are YNT players, 1 plays for the full Australian WNT and their YNT and the other (who played the 2nd most minutes FYI) had no YNT experience at all.

It isn't about the resume it's about the player.


----------



## Soccerfan2

MakeAPlay said:


> 28 out 32 players on my daughter's college roster from the 2019 have either YNT or Full National team experience so that isn't a very predictive stat.  The numbers are similar for the other schools that I mentioned.  YNT is just a label that means very little when everyone around you has the same label.  Only 15 players on my kid's team PLAYED in at least half the games and only 12 started half the games or more.  Only 4 players started every game.  The cream rises to the top in the competitive cauldron of college soccer.  The US YNT's don't actually get real competition until the make it to the U20 or U17 WWC and we have done exceptionally bad at those since our last good teams in 2012.


28 of 32. That indicates that obviously there is  agreement between colleges and YNT about who the top players are. If there wasn’t, top college rosters would not be made up of mostly YNT players. That is my point. 

That does NOT mean just because you have YNT experience you are going to be on or a starter on a top team - I agree with you completely there. One reason YNT players sit the bench in college is because there are more YNT roster spots throughout all the camps and birth years than there are starting spots on top college rosters. Another reason is that players don’t develop on a straight line trajectory - many factors influence development (and commitment) over time.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerfan2 said:


> 28 of 32. That indicates that obviously there is  agreement between colleges and YNT about who the top players are. If there wasn’t, top college rosters would not be made up of mostly YNT players. That is my point.
> 
> That does NOT mean just because you have YNT experience you are going to be on or a starter on a top team - I agree with you completely there. One reason YNT players sit the bench in college is because there are more YNT roster spots throughout all the camps and birth years than there are starting spots on top college rosters. Another reason is that players don’t develop on a straight line trajectory - many factors influence development (and commitment) over time.



A lot of the recruitment of YNT players has to do with trusting other people's opinions.  Not to mention that those YNT players tend to congregate on the same teams (Or US Soccer favors certain teams/clubs) and great teams can hide players actual deficiencies (think Jamarcus Russell at LSU).  Once you are in fall camp your resume doesn't matter.  Those that can get the job done will play whether that number is 11 or 20.  Those that have been relying on their resume either improve, sit the bench or transfer.


----------



## timmyh

I agree with you guys on a lot of points being made regarding things like the importance of coaching and other factors, but I think you're missing the one thing that is a fundamental change.

All other things being equal, the kid that's playing 10 months a year in the more intensive environment is going to end up being a better player than the kid playing in a slightly less intensive environment and also swapping 1/3 of that time for a much lesser environment.  That doesn't mean there won't be exceptions, but the DA is simply going to produce players that have more fully maximized their potential.  

I really don't see how that's arguable.  Sure people may choose not to do the more intensive program for valid reasons (avoid burnout, have other interests, play with other teams or teammates, etc), but all of those reasons come with a tradeoff that is pretty specifically detrimental to fully realizing soccer potential.   

If there are two identical twin gymnasts who are both equally world class at age 14, the gymnast who trains 4 hours a day through high school is likely going to be better than her identical twin who practices 3 hours a day (with one of those hours being spent tumbling with lesser skilled friends just for fun).  It *is* common sense.  Now, perhaps the first one is missing out on things that are important that aren't worth the sacrifice to the second one (or are simply deemed to be critical to a balanced or more fun lifestyle), but each has their own pathway and choices and priorities.  If the only goal is to make the Olympic gymnastic team, obviously the first one is who you'd put your money on to succeed.  

Many people here seem to be arguing that the extra hour of not practicing is going to somehow make the 2nd twin a better gymnast than her sister or that it just doesn't matter or that Olympic coaches must be biased to invest their energy and time into the first sister instead of both.  Of course it matters.  Of course the first twin is going to be better than the second at gymnastics.  And of course that sacrifice may or may not be worthwhile to the things that are truly important.


----------



## timmyh

timmyh said:


> I agree with you guys on a lot of points being made regarding things like the importance of coaching and other factors, but I think you're missing the one thing that is a fundamental change.
> 
> All other things being equal, the kid that's playing 10 months a year in the more intensive environment is going to end up being a better player than the kid playing in a slightly less intensive environment and also swapping 1/3 of that time for a much lesser environment.  That doesn't mean there won't be exceptions, but the DA is simply going to produce players that have more fully maximized their potential.
> 
> I really don't see how that's arguable.  Sure people may choose not to do the more intensive program for valid reasons (avoid burnout, have other interests, play with other teams or teammates, etc), but all of those reasons come with a tradeoff that is pretty specifically detrimental to fully realizing soccer potential.
> 
> If there are two identical twin gymnasts who are both equally world class at age 14, the gymnast who trains 4 hours a day through high school is likely going to be better than her identical twin who practices 3 hours a day (with one of those hours being spent tumbling with lesser skilled friends just for fun).  It *is* common sense.  Now, perhaps the first one is missing out on things that are important that aren't worth the sacrifice to the second one (or are simply deemed to be critical to a balanced or more fun lifestyle), but each has their own pathway and choices and priorities.  If the only goal is to make the Olympic gymnastic team *or be an impact gymnast at the college level,* obviously the first one is who you'd put your money on to succeed.
> 
> Many people here seem to be arguing that the extra hour of not practicing is going to somehow make the 2nd twin a better gymnast than her sister or that it just doesn't matter or that Olympic coaches must be biased to invest their energy and time into the first sister instead of both.  Of course it matters.  Of course the first twin is going to be better than the second at gymnastics.  And of course that sacrifice may or may not be worthwhile to the things that are truly important.


fixed one part to be more relevant


----------



## Soccerfan2

MakeAPlay said:


> A lot of the recruitment of YNT players has to do with trusting other people's opinions.  Not to mention that those YNT players tend to congregate on the same teams (Or US Soccer favors certain teams/clubs) and great teams can hide players actual deficiencies (think Jamarcus Russell at LSU).  Once you are in fall camp your resume doesn't matter.  Those that can get the job done will play whether that number is 11 or 20.  Those that have been relying on their resume either improve, sit the bench or transfer.


It seems to me that players that emerge at the very highest level in college that were never identified prior are the small exception rather than the rule. That means the YNT selection process is generally a reliable predictor. Your own data from UCLA supports this point. I don’t see the ECNL/DA split changing this dynamic despite the perception that YNT is unreasonably biased to DA. I do think YNT is DA biased, but I don’t think it matters because it is not so biased that it ignores the very top players that really differentiate themselves.

Timmy - I don’t necessarily disagree with your logic. But, my daughter trained just as much prior to DA as she does now playing DA. Also, many of her ECNL peers work in private training or on their own enough to compensate for the fewer team training days. I’m not sure they are developing less.


----------



## Dubs

MakeAPlay said:


> A lot of the recruitment of YNT players has to do with trusting other people's opinions.  Not to mention that those YNT players tend to congregate on the same teams (Or US Soccer favors certain teams/clubs) and great teams can hide players actual deficiencies (think Jamarcus Russell at LSU).  Once you are in fall camp your resume doesn't matter.  Those that can get the job done will play whether that number is 11 or 20.  Those that have been relying on their resume either improve, sit the bench or transfer.


Stop making so much sense MAP!


----------



## Soccerhelper

Soccerfan2 said:


> It seems to me that players that emerge at the very highest level in college that were never identified prior are the small exception rather than the rule. That means the YNT selection process is generally a reliable predictor. Your own data from UCLA supports this point. I don’t see the ECNL/DA split changing this dynamic despite the perception that YNT is unreasonably biased to DA. I do think YNT is DA biased, but I don’t think it matters because it is not so biased that it ignores the very top players that really differentiate themselves.
> 
> Timmy - I don’t necessarily disagree with your logic. But, my daughter trained just as much prior to DA as she does now playing DA. Also, many of her ECNL peers work in private training or on their own enough to compensate for the fewer team training days. I’m not sure they are developing less.


The old ODP WAY of getting the Nations Top 100 from the four regions, yes, the cream will be there and the top schools will get their first choice sips of that cream.  This is a new, DA Way to make the cream rise to the top without the same ingredients.  I personally think it taste a little sour and bitter but that's just my whinny self being me.  We shall all see someday.  To all those who have fallen from Grace..... That is a complete lie.  No such thing.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Soccerhelper said:


> The old ODP WAY of getting the Nations Top 100 from the four regions, yes, the cream will be there and the top schools will get their first choice sips of that cream.  This is a new, DA Way to make the cream rise to the top without the same ingredients.  I personally think it taste a little sour and bitter but that's just my whinny self being me.  We shall all see someday.  To all those who have fallen from Grace..... That is a complete lie.  No such thing.


You don’t think the ODP selection was bias?  You must be joking!


----------



## oh canada

timmyh said:


> I agree with you guys on a lot of points being made regarding things like the importance of coaching and other factors, but I think you're missing the one thing that is a fundamental change.
> 
> All other things being equal, the kid that's playing 10 months a year in the more intensive environment is going to end up being a better player than the kid playing in a slightly less intensive environment and also swapping 1/3 of that time for a much lesser environment.  That doesn't mean there won't be exceptions, but the DA is simply going to produce players that have more fully maximized their potential.
> 
> I really don't see how that's arguable.  Sure people may choose not to do the more intensive program for valid reasons (avoid burnout, have other interests, play with other teams or teammates, etc), but all of those reasons come with a tradeoff that is pretty specifically detrimental to fully realizing soccer potential.
> 
> If there are two identical twin gymnasts who are both equally world class at age 14, the gymnast who trains 4 hours a day through high school is likely going to be better than her identical twin who practices 3 hours a day (with one of those hours being spent tumbling with lesser skilled friends just for fun).  It *is* common sense.  Now, perhaps the first one is missing out on things that are important that aren't worth the sacrifice to the second one (or are simply deemed to be critical to a balanced or more fun lifestyle), but each has their own pathway and choices and priorities.  If the only goal is to make the Olympic gymnastic team, obviously the first one is who you'd put your money on to succeed.
> 
> Many people here seem to be arguing that the extra hour of not practicing is going to somehow make the 2nd twin a better gymnast than her sister or that it just doesn't matter or that Olympic coaches must be biased to invest their energy and time into the first sister instead of both.  Of course it matters.  Of course the first twin is going to be better than the second at gymnastics.  And of course that sacrifice may or may not be worthwhile to the things that are truly important.


Enjoying the debate.  With respect, above is flawed logic because performance increases are not linear over time.  Yes, at the young ages there is a good correlation between time spent training and an increase in performance.  But as time goes on, the law of diminishing returns kicks in.  Deliberate practice hours predict 26% of the skill variation in games such as chess, 21% for music, and 18% for sports.   

Gladwell's 10,000-hour theory sold a lot of books (and a lot of private training sessions), but is complete garbage in reality.    









						The Great Practice Myth: Debunking the 10,000 Hour Rule
					

The 10,000 Hour Rule: It's a popular rule of thumb, but it isn't based on solid science. Here are practical, research-backed tips on practice.




					www.6seconds.org
				












						Why Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 Hour Rule Doesn't Actually Hold Up
					

Practice doesn't necessarily make perfect.




					money.com


----------



## Dubs

Why is there the assumption that DA has more training than ECNL?  It depends on the club/team!  Nobody should assume that playing ECNL means less of anything.  I feel like I'm repeating myself, but development is solely in the hands of the club and NOT US Soccer, the DA or ECNL for that matter.  These are just platforms... nothing more.  One thing we DO know is that there is clear and outright bias in terms of picking DA players for YNT.  It has been said by US Soccer themselves.


----------



## timmyh

oh canada said:


> Enjoying the debate.  With respect, above is flawed logic because performance increases are not linear over time.  Yes, at the young ages there is a good correlation between time spent training and an increase in performance.  But as time goes on, the law of diminishing returns kicks in.  Deliberate practice hours predict 26% of the skill variation in games such as chess, 21% for music, and 18% for sports.
> 
> Gladwell's 10,000-hour theory sold a lot of books (and a lot of private training sessions), but is complete garbage in reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Great Practice Myth: Debunking the 10,000 Hour Rule
> 
> 
> The 10,000 Hour Rule: It's a popular rule of thumb, but it isn't based on solid science. Here are practical, research-backed tips on practice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.6seconds.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 Hour Rule Doesn't Actually Hold Up
> 
> 
> Practice doesn't necessarily make perfect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> money.com


Great post. Very interesting.
If soccer is in the 18% category, then perhaps that possibly supports a notion that further deliberate practice can make the sort of minor differences we are talking about when sorting between the top 1% of players in an age group and determining who is most likely to continue to separate themselves. Or, at least that appears to be US Soccer's belief.


----------



## timmyh

Dubs said:


> Why is there the assumption that DA has more training than ECNL?  It depends on the club/team!  Nobody should assume that playing ECNL means less of anything.  I feel like I'm repeating myself, but development is solely in the hands of the club and NOT US Soccer, the DA or ECNL for that matter.  These are just platforms... nothing more.  One thing we DO know is that there is clear and outright bias in terms of picking DA players for YNT.  It has been said by US Soccer themselves.


Seems true with every DA/ECNL club I am aware of. Can you share which ECNL clubs train more than 3 days a week and don't drastically scale down for several months during HS season?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerfan2 said:


> It seems to me that players that emerge at the very highest level in college that were never identified prior are the small exception rather than the rule. That means the YNT selection process is generally a reliable predictor. Your own data from UCLA supports this point. I don’t see the ECNL/DA split changing this dynamic despite the perception that YNT is unreasonably biased to DA. I do think YNT is DA biased, but I don’t think it matters because it is not so biased that it ignores the very top players that really differentiate themselves.
> 
> Timmy - I don’t necessarily disagree with your logic. But, my daughter trained just as much prior to DA as she does now playing DA. Also, many of her ECNL peers work in private training or on their own enough to compensate for the fewer team training days. I’m not sure they are developing less.


I can think of at least 3 players that were not YNT players that went to UCLA and beat out YNT players and one who was the 2nd pick in the NWSL draft.  2 of those players have been called into the YNT and full WNT since then but they weren't invited prior to their time in college.

Yes the YNT selection is generally reliable but only in the sense that you are going to know that some of the players are going to be great, some are going to be average and some are going to disappear. It's completely up to the player.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Doesn’t it also depend on who is doing the picking?  As I alluded to earlier there is an entirely new staff that was hired within the last 3 months. I’m sure there is some degree of preference towards DA players but I believe that is inherent in structure and resource allocation.


----------



## Soccerfan2

MakeAPlay said:


> I can think of at least 3 players that were not YNT players that went to UCLA and beat out YNT players and one who was the 2nd pick in the NWSL draft.  2 of those players have been called into the YNT and full WNT since then but they weren't invited prior to their time in college.
> 
> Yes the YNT selection is generally reliable but only in the sense that you are going to know that some of the players are going to be great, some are going to be average and some are going to disappear. It's completely up to the player.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


So using UCLA as a case study, YNT successfully ID’s about 75% of the top players before college.

25% peak later or were not visible or were passed over for some reason in the youth ages.

I think if we checked the rosters of other top schools we’d see about the same ratio.

If that 25% increases over the next few years, that could be validation that DA bias negatively skewed the YNT system. I’ll still bet against that outcome, but some of you other smart people passionately disagree. Arguing with data is a little more fun for me though.

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard for sure. No argument whatsoever about it being up to the player.


----------



## Soccer43

MakeAPlay said:


> I can think of at least 3 players that were not YNT players that went to UCLA and beat out YNT players and one who was the 2nd pick in the NWSL draft.  2 of those players have been called into the YNT and full WNT since then but they weren't invited prior to their time in college.
> 
> Yes the YNT selection is generally reliable but only in the sense that you are going to know that some of the players are going to be great, some are going to be average and some are going to disappear. It's completely up to the player.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


speaking the truth MAP - nice to have you back.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Dubs said:


> Why is there the assumption that DA has more training than ECNL?  It depends on the club/team!  Nobody should assume that playing ECNL means less of anything.  I feel like I'm repeating myself, but development is solely in the hands of the club and NOT US Soccer, the DA or ECNL for that matter.  These are just platforms... nothing more.  One thing we DO know is that there is clear and outright bias in terms of picking DA players for YNT.  It has been said by US Soccer themselves.


Every single club in the DA has committed 100% to developing world-class players or they will get their membership taken away.  Look how they developed Sophie Smith. She is the first official DA player developed by one of the DA camps and now drafted in the pros.  Go DA!!! 

Sophia Smith Becomes First Girls' Academy Alum Drafted Into NWSL


----------



## oh canada

timmyh said:


> Great post. Very interesting.
> If soccer is in the 18% category, then perhaps that possibly supports a notion that further deliberate practice can make the sort of minor differences we are talking about when sorting between the top 1% of players in an age group and determining who is most likely to continue to separate themselves. Or, at least that appears to be US Soccer's belief.


Not quite, because you have to look at the inverse also---Based on the 18%, that means that other stuff (not deliberate practice) is responsible for 82% of skill variation.  That could be genetics, taking time off, playing other sports, healthier lifestyles (sleep, food, etc.), and/or an entire list of other variables.


----------



## dad4

Soccerfan2 said:


> So using UCLA as a case study, YNT successfully ID’s about 75% of the top players before college.
> 
> 25% peak later or were not visible or were passed over for some reason in the youth ages.
> 
> I think if we checked the rosters of other top schools we’d see about the same ratio.
> 
> If that 25% increases over the next few years, that could be validation that DA bias negatively skewed the YNT system. I’ll still bet against that outcome, but some of you other smart people passionately disagree. Arguing with data is a little more fun for me though.
> 
> Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard for sure. No argument whatsoever about it being up to the player.


Can't use the 2019 UCLA team to measure the post-DA YNT selection process.  Most of those call ups were from before DA began to influence the process.

Current selection is a DA all star team, supplemented with any obvious ECNL unicorns.  Not a bad team, but not without bias, either.


----------



## Soccerfan2

dad4 said:


> Can't use the 2019 UCLA team to measure the post-DA YNT selection process.  Most of those call ups were from before DA began to influence the process.
> 
> Current selection is a DA all star team, supplemented with any obvious ECNL unicorns.  Not a bad team, but not without bias, either.


I agree. And I repeat, “If that 25% increases over the next few years, that could be validation that DA bias negatively skewed the YNT system.”


----------



## Dof3

My DD plays ECNL.  Early days for her.  This break is my favorite part of ECNL.  She trains at least 5 days a week.  2 days with her ECNL team.  1 day with a skills coach on skills.  Some days on video review and soccer IQ  But what she has done on the other two days during this break is work with a track coach on speed, explosive speed, strength and speed endurance.  Different muscles.  Different demands on her body.  And her track work has helped her be a much better soccer player because she has developed the interval speed stamina she needs to be comparatively better later in games.   I think it is hard to say that two more days of team soccer practice, as a matter of logic, necessarily yields better results than one day of private training and two days of work on stamina and explosive speed.  All that same muscle work will, for too many, result in severe knee injury and rehab.  I don’t know that the incidence of ACL injury is greater in DA than it is in ECNL, but I will be interested in that data over time.  I do know that better schools require better grades, and better grades sometimes requires the flexibility to reschedule private training.  And I also know that it is a false assumption to think that ECNL kids are all playing crappy high school soccer or rehearsing for drama club while DA kids are training on a soccer field.  Mine has been making herself a better athlete, and a smarter, faster soccer player with more stamina.  Unclear what it will mean for her long term.  Unknowable for a hundred reasons.  But she enjoys what she is doing, chooses it for herself, likes her team and her coach, and I can’t say that the DA options in OC offer anything better or even as good.


----------



## Messi>CR7

timmyh said:


> Great post. Very interesting.
> If soccer is in the 18% category, then perhaps that possibly supports a notion that further deliberate practice can make the sort of minor differences we are talking about when sorting between the top 1% of players in an age group and determining who is most likely to continue to separate themselves. Or, at least that appears to be US Soccer's belief.


If your kid has a choice between training 2-3x/week at Borussia Dortmund vs 4x/week at an MLS academy, which one would you choose?


----------



## Soccerhelper

Dof3 said:


> My DD plays ECNL.  Early days for her.  This break is my favorite part of ECNL.  She trains at least 5 days a week.  2 days with her ECNL team.  1 day with a skills coach on skills.  Some days on video review and soccer IQ  But what she has done on the other two days during this break is work with a track coach on speed, explosive speed, strength and speed endurance.  Different muscles.  Different demands on her body.  And her track work has helped her be a much better soccer player because she has developed the interval speed stamina she needs to be comparatively better later in games.   I think it is hard to say that two more days of team soccer practice, as a matter of logic, necessarily yields better results than one day of private training and two days of work on stamina and explosive speed.  All that same muscle work will, for too many, result in severe knee injury and rehab.  I don’t know that the incidence of ACL injury is greater in DA than it is in ECNL, but I will be interested in that data over time.  I do know that better schools require better grades, and better grades sometimes requires the flexibility to reschedule private training.  And I also know that it is a false assumption to think that ECNL kids are all playing crappy high school soccer or rehearsing for drama club while DA kids are training on a soccer field.  Mine has been making herself a better athlete, and a smarter, faster soccer player with more stamina.  Unclear what it will mean for her long term.  Unknowable for a hundred reasons.  But she enjoys what she is doing, chooses it for herself, likes her team and her coach, and I can’t say that the DA options in OC offer anything better or even as good.


Excellent takes dad of 3.  I almost became a dad of 4 btw, but I got two dogs instead and decided on just two kids after my dd was born.  She's a handful, let me tell you.  It's funny to read all the takes on DA and ECNL.  My dd did the DA for 1 year and 6 months for first year and half of the DA Way.  Not a good experience to be honest. My dd played the first year and it was so confusing with rumors that kept changing depending on what one club wanted.  My dd is now entering her 2nd year of ECNL.  The DA say's they train 4 days a week but that's not true for all the players, trust me.  It's all the same, just more confusing for all of us today.  The real problem is two groups are fighting for market share.  

Group 1- DA is a service that says their developing world class players through their 4 days a week, 10 month "world class training program." Once the product is developed from the coaches in the club through the DA world class formula, the club that did all the developing will market that product on their social media platform so they can get more sign ups.  They announce tryouts and start signing kids up at 4. These customers are clueless and won't understand all this BS until their goat is 9 and someone informs them of reality and directs them over to us at SoCal Soccer Forum.  

Group #2  ECNL is services to help parents and their dd get into college.  

Two choices to choose from today for the highest level of soccer in SoCal.  Choose wisely  

"The mission of the DA program is to have a direct impact on the everyday club environment by providing clubs with the education, resources and support to *develop world-class male and female players.*  This model focuses on the *developing the individual player* within the club environment setting a standard nationwide that will positively impact thousands of youth players."

No more teams, it's all about the individual. I know a player at Legends in my dd age.  Top CM since she was 7 and still is.  My dd teams played her teams and we always won.  However, everyone knew she was one of if not the top CM in Socal.  All the top 04s were free agents when DA was announced.  Legends picked up all the top players including AL.  The issue I have in all this is how a club can take all the credit for the development when it didn;t matter where the player went, she was real good and still is.  I don;t believe in all this world class development mumbo jumbo.  The point I'm trying to make is she was already world class and so was AT and the others.  Sure, a coach can help but to say the club developed her is false and misleading imho.


----------



## Soccerhelper

@Soccerfan2 I think making these YNT pools and YNT really helps the individual and the DA Club that developed that individual. No one else benefits. This was not happening a few years ago in SoCal.  Ask Map, he was here way before any of us.  Data won;t lie so let's check on all this in two years. The mass marketing in our area is huge and everyday.  I get news feeds from all the top DA clubs everyday.

"look over here; Ya, you."
"We are #1 club in the country."
"pss, hey, don;t look at the club.  They play kickball.  Come over here.  We developed three YNT players and we can develop you too."

This is all about recruiting and stealing goats from other clubs and nothing else.  The on;y developing going on is in the back office.  Just wait when all the news comes out before May 31st.  We shall see about all this development and how true it really is.

Don't get me wrong, its a great way to reach moms and dads with 5 year olds on social media.  I came from Yellow Page marketing and this kind of marketing is way above my pay grade.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerhelper said:


> Excellent takes dad of 3.  I almost became a dad of 4 btw, but I got two dogs instead and decided on just two kids after my dd was born.  She's a handful, let me tell you.  It's funny to read all the takes on DA and ECNL.  My dd did the DA for 1 year and 6 months for first year and half of the DA Way.  Not a good experience to be honest. My dd played the first year and it was so confusing with rumors that kept changing depending on what one club wanted.  My dd is now entering her 2nd year of ECNL.  The DA say's they train 4 days a week but that's not true for all the players, trust me.  It's all the same, just more confusing for all of us today.  The real problem is two groups are fighting for market share.
> 
> Group 1- DA is a service that says their developing world class players through their 4 days a week, 10 month "world class training program." Once the product is developed from the coaches in the club through the DA world class formula, the club that did all the developing will market that product on their social media platform so they can get more sign ups.  They announce tryouts and start signing kids up at 4. These customers are clueless and won't understand all this BS until their goat is 9 and someone informs them of reality and directs them over to us at SoCal Soccer Forum.
> 
> Group #2  ECNL is services to help parents and their dd get into college.
> 
> Two choices to choose from today for the highest level of soccer in SoCal.  Choose wisely
> 
> "The mission of the DA program is to have a direct impact on the everyday club environment by providing clubs with the education, resources and support to *develop world-class male and female players.*  This model focuses on the *developing the individual player* within the club environment setting a standard nationwide that will positively impact thousands of youth players."
> 
> No more teams, it's all about the individual. I know a player at Legends in my dd age.  Top CM since she was 7 and still is.  My dd teams played her teams and we always won.  However, everyone knew she was one of if not the top CM in Socal.  All the top 04s were free agents when DA was announced.  Legends picked up all the top players including AL.  The issue I have in all this is how a club can take all the credit for the development when it didn;t matter where the player went, she was real good and still is.  I don;t believe in all this world class development mumbo jumbo.  The point I'm trying to make is she was already world class and so was AT and the others.  Sure, a coach can help but to say the club developed her is false and misleading imho.


Very true.  Ashley Sanchez and Catarina Macario have been the top to '99 birth year players in SoCal (and the country) since they were 12 years old.  One went from Legends to Blues and one went from Brazil to Surf.  I will say that without the hard work put in by those players, they wouldn't have continued to be at the top and I guarantee that they both credit the coaches that they have had for helping to continue their development.  Not one would say a particular league did anything other than to put them in a place where they could compete against other great players and teams.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Leagues don’t develop players, Coaches and Players families do!


----------



## Dubs

timmyh said:


> Seems true with every DA/ECNL club I am aware of. Can you share which ECNL clubs train more than 3 days a week and don't drastically scale down for several months during HS season?


I can only speak to my kid's club.  They have 3 practices + 1 technique focused day.  They do break for HS soccer, but for those girls that decide not to play HS, training continues 3-4 times per week.  There is no scale down.


----------



## shales1002

timmyh said:


> Seems true with every DA/ECNL club I am aware of. Can you share which ECNL clubs train more than 3 days a week and don't drastically scale down for several months during HS season?


Heat FC. The high school season is in the Fall and runs the same time as the fall southwest conference. There is no break other than a few weeks in December.


----------



## Dubs

Soccerhelper said:


> Every single club in the DA has committed 100% to developing world-class players or they will get their membership taken away.  Look how they developed Sophie Smith. She is the first official DA player developed by one of the DA camps and now drafted in the pros.  Go DA!!!
> 
> Sophia Smith Becomes First Girls' Academy Alum Drafted Into NWSL


It is not the DA that develops world class players nor is it ECNL.  As you have heard from many others on this thread, it is the club coach or other coaches + DD + family that does the development.


----------



## Desert Hound

shales1002 said:


> Heat FC. The high school season is in the Fall and runs the same time as the fall southwest conference. There is no break other than a few weeks in December.


You made the trip to Phx last weekend correct? Your daughter made some great saves during the Sat game. See you guys on Sunday. Rising is the Sat game. 

So in NV kids can play HS at the same time they are in club? AZ does not allow HS players to play club during HS season. The HS season just ended last week.


----------



## davin

timmyh said:


> Seems true with every DA/ECNL club I am aware of. Can you share which ECNL clubs train more than 3 days a week and don't drastically scale down for several months during HS season?


My kid's ECNL club has 3 mandatory practices at the older age groups and one optional small group clinic per week. During the high school break, the club offered optional training sessions(no extra fees for these) 3-5 times per week for all of the ECNL girls who were interested. The high school rules in our area allow for high school kids to train with their club as long as they are not playing 11 v 11, so many of the kids playing high school attended these sessions when they could. The ones who skipped high school attended most of the optional sessions during the break, and these sessions included many college and professional players who trained/competed with the club girls so that they could keep in shape during their off season. The kids have the choice to scale down, but many don't. All up to the kid and the family, as it should be.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Desert Hound said:


> You made the trip to Phx last weekend correct? Your daughter made some great saves during the Sat game. See you guys on Sunday. Rising is the Sat game.
> 
> So in NV kids can play HS at the same time they are in club? AZ does not allow HS players to play club during HS season. The HS season just ended last week.


Rising is a dangerous team


----------



## Soccerhelper

Kicker4Life said:


> Leagues don’t develop players, Coaches and Players families do!


I understand that and I appreciate how all the Docs and coaches develop the true goats.  The ads I read say something else on social media.  It's face that they say come join our family so we can develope you probably.  That is BS!!!  Also, I think most of these top top players are born to play and just need help.  They will develop themselves with hard work, not a club.


----------



## Soccerhelper

*SD SURF U.S. SOCCER CALL-INS*
*Our mission is to create the best of the best opportunities and experiences for our players and this month the opportunities were HUGE for our players! TWENTY-ONE of our players were selected for U.S. Soccer Youth National Teams and Camps. These are definitely experiences they will never forget and we are so proud to have been part of their development journey and see them excel at the national level!*


----------



## Soccerhelper

Beach Futbol Club *recruits* and *develops* the best soccer talent in Southern California, with hundreds of alums in college, the pros, and international teams. Schedule your tryout today!


----------



## LASTMAN14

Soccerhelper said:


> I understand that and I appreciate how all the Docs and coaches develop the true goats.  The ads I read say something else on social media.  It's face that they say come join our family so we can develope you probably.  That is BS!!!  Also, I think most of these top top players are born to play and just need help.  They will develop themselves with hard work, not a club.


Here is an example using my girls 05 and 06 teams. Prior to DA I think our club program did a good job of developing players as well as maintaining its player pool with few additions until DA. When looking at those teams now in DA the 05 team has 21 05's (split between 05 and 04). Of those 14 came from the club program. The 06's have 17 full time players. And 10 of those came from the club program. All of these players originating from the club program (not DA) were with the team for at least 3 years minimum. Some like my two girls have started from the original group at U8.


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## Soccerhelper

LASTMAN14 said:


> Here is an example using my girls 05 and 06 teams. Prior to DA I think our club program did a good job of developing players as well as maintaining its player pool with few additions until DA. When looking at those teams now in DA the 05 team has 21 05's (split between 05 and 04). Of those 14 came from the club program. The 06's have 17 full time players. And 10 of those came from the club program. All of these players originating from the club program (not DA) were with the team for at least 3 years minimum. Some like my two girls have started from the original group at U8.


That is super cool to hear and congrats


----------



## socalkdg

Dubs said:


> I can only speak to my kid's club.  They have 3 practices + 1 technique focused day.  They do break for HS soccer, but for those girls that decide not to play HS, training continues 3-4 times per week.  There is no scale down.


So DA or ECNL may be giving your kid 6-8 hours per week based on 1.5-2.0 hours for practice 3-4 times per week? 

Current daughter, freshman, puts in 10 hours per week for track at the school, 5 hours a week with the basketball team doing some conditioning and drills,  4 hours with soccer team,  1.5 hours with keeper trainer.   So she puts in about 20+ hours per week of various exercise, drills, and conditioning, not counting games on the weekends.   Not bad for a keeper.  

I imagine all the top players, no matter where they play, put in extra hours.   5 for a club or 8 for ECNL/DA isn't going to make that huge of a difference.   Putting in another 5-10 hours on your own will.   No matter what club,  there will be some players that do what is required, and others that put in the extra effort.


----------



## futboldad1

socalkdg said:


> So DA or ECNL may be giving your kid 6-8 hours per week based on 1.5-2.0 hours for practice 3-4 times per week?
> 
> Current daughter, freshman, puts in 10 hours per week for track at the school, 5 hours a week with the basketball team doing some conditioning and drills,  4 hours with soccer team,  1.5 hours with keeper trainer.   So she puts in about 20+ hours per week of various exercise, drills, and conditioning, not counting games on the weekends.   Not bad for a keeper.
> 
> I imagine all the top players, no matter where they play, put in extra hours.   5 for a club or 8 for ECNL/DA isn't going to make that huge of a difference.   Putting in another 5-10 hours on your own will.   No matter what club,  there will be some players that do what is required, and others that put in the extra effort.


development of our DDs is down to a number of factors...... I would say these are the top 5.....

1....Natural ability of the DD in question....skill, coordination, speed....
2.... Work ethic of the DD.....does she embrace the grind and like tough challenges....
3....Parents willingness and ability to support the above.....can you drive the to practices and games, feed them good food, role model humility.....
4....A coach who believes in the kid and guides and pushes them....does the coach work hard, will he help your DD at college time.....
5.....Playing with AND against a sufficient level of player and team....hard to be the best of your never exposed to the best hence DA and ECNL....


----------



## Dubs

socalkdg said:


> So DA or ECNL may be giving your kid 6-8 hours per week based on 1.5-2.0 hours for practice 3-4 times per week?
> 
> Current daughter, freshman, puts in 10 hours per week for track at the school, 5 hours a week with the basketball team doing some conditioning and drills,  4 hours with soccer team,  1.5 hours with keeper trainer.   So she puts in about 20+ hours per week of various exercise, drills, and conditioning, not counting games on the weekends.   Not bad for a keeper.
> 
> I imagine all the top players, no matter where they play, put in extra hours.   5 for a club or 8 for ECNL/DA isn't going to make that huge of a difference.   Putting in another 5-10 hours on your own will.   No matter what club,  there will be some players that do what is required, and others that put in the extra effort.


100% correct.


----------



## 310soccer

This news has just come to my attention and it’s crazy to believe. San Jose Quakes have decided to dissolve their girls DA program because of finances despite being a pay to play model. Obviously such a  surprising move will only hurt their reputation as a professional club. Apparently costs were swelling partially because of the DOC’s salary which I was told ranged north of $250K. The new initiatives that MLS has set on the boy’s academy programs is also a huge factor in this decision. SJQ DOC also just recently reached out to both ECNL and DA clubs. The hope here is to start a league of their own and for the SJQ DOC to start a new club. Those clubs that were contacted declined this offer. SJQ teams are currently looking for homes. Apparently several teams are negotiating with MVLA. Feel sorry for those players and their families.


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## Soccerhelper

310soccer said:


> This news has just come to my attention and it’s crazy to believe. San Jose Quakes have decided to dissolve their girls DA program because of finances despite being a pay to play model. Obviously such a  surprising move will only hurt their reputation as a professional club. Apparently costs were swelling partially because of the DOC’s salary which I was told ranged north of $250K. The new initiatives that MLS has set on the boy’s academy programs is also a huge factor in this decision. SJQ DOC also just recently reached out to both ECNL and DA clubs. The hope here is to start a league of their own and for the SJQ DOC to start a new club. Those clubs that were contacted declined this offer. SJQ teams are currently looking for homes. Apparently several teams are negotiating with MVLA. Feel sorry for those players and their families.


Is this for reals?


----------



## El Clasico

timmyh said:


> The most likely reason for any perceived bias towards the DA is because the selection criteria isn't primarily about identifying and developing "who is the best player today" but rather "who has the most potential to become a full YNT player."
> 
> US Soccer knows a U15 girl who is slated to train 4 days a week for 10 months a year at a high level (DA) for each of the next four years is going to better fulfill their potential than a girl slated to train 3 days a week for 7 months a year at a high level (ECNL) plus another 3 months of high school soccer for each of the next 4 years.
> 
> Common sense tells you the first environment is much more likely to maximize a player's development, and the last decade of experience with the boys has proven that very few elite players come up through the high school pathway anymore when such a large number of others are following the more intensive DA pathway.


Not sure if this is supposed to be a sarcastic comment??? Not sure of your experience on the boys side but from our own personal experience, and statistically speaking, I am not sure that statement is very accurate.  If anything, the last 11 years of boys DA have shown what a total disaster and failure the DA has been on the boys side.  You should probably clarify which pathway you are referring to.  The pathway to nowhere? Thus far, any sane or reasonable (objective) person can see that these clubs are not producing consistent, quality talent, with the exception of FC Dallas and maybe NY Red Bulls. However, those two clubs can/would produce talent regardless of DA status. Both clubs, particularly FC Dallas identify kids in their youth program, with promising potential, and look to help them find a true development environment generally in Mexico or Germany. Now with one of their top coaches getting the coaching job over at 1st team Xolos, it is likely that more kids will be encouraged to leave the US for better opportunities.  Does USSSF like that FC Dallas does this? Not one bit but FC Dallas is the biggest fish in the DA pool. Can a DA system work?  Of course. Not suggesting that it can't. Just saying that it is not working now and even a blind man should be able to see that. The reason that FC Dallas has been consistent at producing talent is that they are true to their core mission of development.  And they have proven that they can do that and still make real money.

Their not so secret keys to producing talent lies in their tier system. Everybody knows and understands their role.

Ballers - Key players who, as soon as coaching staff feels they are ready, looks for opportunities abroad to develop further.

Chumps - Important role to keep system working. They complete the roster. Some will get lucky and play at a higher level, some will go to college but most will be pumping gas or flipping burgers by the age of 25

Fluffers - Just like in the movies, these players ride the bench and whose primary role is to support the team and make sure they are ready for the show. Parents put these kids on the team to boast at cocktail parties to people that don't know better.


----------



## 310soccer

El Clasico said:


> Not sure if this is supposed to be a sarcastic comment??? Not sure of your experience on the boys side but from our own personal experience, and statistically speaking, I am not sure that statement is very accurate.  If anything, the last 11 years of boys DA have shown what a total disaster and failure the DA has been on the boys side.  You should probably clarify which pathway you are referring to.  The pathway to nowhere? Thus far, any sane or reasonable (objective) person can see that these clubs are not producing consistent, quality talent, with the exception of FC Dallas and maybe NY Red Bulls. However, those two clubs can/would produce talent regardless of DA status. Both clubs, particularly FC Dallas identify kids in their youth program, with promising potential, and look to help them find a true development environment generally in Mexico or Germany. Now with one of their top coaches getting the coaching job over at 1st team Xolos, it is likely that more kids will be encouraged to leave the US for better opportunities.  Does USSSF like that FC Dallas does this? Not one bit but FC Dallas is the biggest fish in the DA pool. Can a DA system work?  Of course. Not suggesting that it can't. Just saying that it is not working now and even a blind man should be able to see that. The reason that FC Dallas has been consistent at producing talent is that they are true to their core mission of development.  And they have proven that they can do that and still make real money.
> 
> Their not so secret keys to producing talent lies in their tier system. Everybody knows and understands their role.
> 
> Ballers - Key players who, as soon as coaching staff feels they are ready, looks for opportunities abroad to develop further.
> 
> Chumps - Important role to keep system working. They complete the roster. Some will get lucky and play at a higher level, some will go to college but most will be pumping gas or flipping burgers by the age of 25
> 
> Fluffers - Just like in the movies, these players ride the bench and whose primary role is to support the team and make sure they are ready for the show. Parents put these kids on the team to boast at cocktail parties to people that don't know better.


I’m only speaking about the  Girls DA program just to be clear.


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## Dubs

310soccer said:


> I’m only speaking about the  Girls DA program just to be clear.


Wow!  Is this confirmed?


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## Soccerhelper

We need TMZ. I have comfirmed that I cant confirm 100% this is rumor or true. I'm going to wait until a written announcement


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## 310soccer

Doesn’t sound like any other rumor to me. Sound like this has legs.


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## gotothebushes

This is way above my pay grade! This topic has been crickets all day. No one wants to touch this topic. lol


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## Soccerhelper

gotothebushes said:


> This is way above my pay grade! This topic has been crickets all day. No one wants to touch this topic. lol


I do.  It's false rumor with lies again right again?  "What's going on" up in NoCal?  When Blues spanked them 7-0, I knew something was up.  I bet some of those girls also want to play hs soccer? I would predict that MLVA is going to be a very stronger team?  Are they all staying to finish the season?


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## 310soccer

Apparently Deza is desperately trying to find someone in the area to start a new club with him. Problem is - he’s burned so many bridges here in the Bay Area and know one wants to work with him or fund it for him. He’s not the easiest person to get along with is what I’m hearing. Wonder what his #1 04 team is thinking!


Soccerhelper said:


> I do.  It's false rumor with lies again right again?  "What's going on" up in NoCal?  When Blues spanked them 7-0, I knew something was up.  I bet some of those girls also want to play hs soccer? I would predict that MLVA is going to be a very stronger team?  Are they all staying to finish the season?


Could be all lies if that’s your take. Nothing on this board is ever true right?

Apparently Deza is desperately trying to find someone in the area to start a new club with him. Problem is - he’s burned so many bridges here in the Bay Area and know one wants to work with him or fund it for him. He’s not the easiest person to get along with is what I’m hearing. Wonder what his #1 04 team is thinking!


----------



## futboldad1

plz keep this information coming 310 because there is a good chance my job takes me and my DDs (my son is a little older so I got to figure that out) to Nor Cal full-time over the coming months......trying to learn what I can about the soccer scene there.......their forum not as active


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## Kicker4Life

310soccer said:


> Apparently Deza is desperately trying to find someone in the area to start a new club with him. Problem is - he’s burned so many bridges here in the Bay Area and know one wants to work with him or fund it for him. He’s not the easiest person to get along with is what I’m hearing. Wonder what his #1 04 team is thinking!
> 
> Could be all lies if that’s your take. Nothing on this board is ever true right?
> 
> Apparently Deza is desperately trying to find someone in the area to start a new club with him. Problem is - he’s burned so many bridges here in the Bay Area and know one wants to work with him or fund it for him. He’s not the easiest person to get along with is what I’m hearing. Wonder what his #1 04 team is thinking!


From everything I’m hearing, it is more of a Financial breakup than a “get out of DA” move.  But that is all hearsay.


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## Kicker4Life

futboldad1 said:


> plz keep this information coming 310 because there is a good chance my job takes me and my DDs (my son is a little older so I got to figure that out) to Nor Cal full-time over the coming months......trying to learn what I can about the soccer scene there.......their forum not as active


Start with MVLA if they are geographically desirable for the area you may be in.


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## davin

futboldad1 said:


> plz keep this information coming 310 because there is a good chance my job takes me and my DDs (my son is a little older so I got to figure that out) to Nor Cal full-time over the coming months......trying to learn what I can about the soccer scene there.......their forum not as active


Where in NorCal might you be relocating to? And what age group is your daughter?


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## Soccerhelper

310soccer said:


> Apparently Deza is desperately trying to find someone in the area to start a new club with him. Problem is - he’s burned so many bridges here in the Bay Area and know one wants to work with him or fund it for him. He’s not the easiest person to get along with is what I’m hearing. Wonder what his #1 04 team is thinking!


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## futboldad1

davin said:


> Where in NorCal might you be relocating to? And what age group is your daughter?


Walnut Creek area......2006......thank you


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## davin

futboldad1 said:


> Walnut Creek area......2006......thank you


The closest GDA or ECNL club to Walnut Creek is Lamorinda, which plays in GDA. I don't know too much about them, but they seem to play the right way, based off of the few games I've seen.  I don't think they've been too successful in the GDA so far, but I have heard good things in the past about their DOC and how they develop players.
The next closest would be Mustang SC, which plays in ECNL. They are one of the best clubs in NorCal. They have a great record of placing their players at the next level, and usually have very well coached teams.
The only other club that I would consider to be within driving range would be Pleasanton Rage, which also plays in ECNL. They haven't been too successful recently, but they seem to be improving, so that is another option.
If you're willing to commute more than an hour, there are other options, but those are your best bets close by. I would recommend looking at Mustang first.


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## Zen

futboldad1 said:


> Walnut Creek area......2006......thank you
> 
> I agree with Davin.  I recommend Mustang SC as the best bet for local and national competition and reputation, exposure, and daily proximity.  The Norcal ECNL and NPL league format enables a LOT of games and variety of great local competition.   I recommend looking at the game schedules of both Mustang (Norcal NPL link - the other half of ECNL club schedules) and Lamorinda for the last year and determine the best fit.


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## dad4

futboldad1 said:


> Walnut Creek area......2006......thank you


For Alameda county, Mustang, Rage, Lamorinda.
San Juan or Davis Legacy if you end up commuting from Sacramento Area.  (People do it, but I dont recommend it.)

MVLA, Earthquakes, PSV, Thorns are all Santa Clara County.  Hard commute from Walnut Creek.  ( PSV also has a reputation as an injury factory.  Not sure about their DA status either.)

All this assumes you need DA/ECNL.  Many more options if you are looking a step or two below that.


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## Soccerfan2

Zen gave excellent advice


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## MacDre

Soccerhelper said:


> I do.  It's false rumor with lies again right again?  "What's going on" up in NoCal?  When Blues spanked them 7-0, I knew something was up.  I bet some of those girls also want to play hs soccer? I would predict that MLVA is going to be a very stronger team?  Are they all staying to finish the season?


Maybe it’s the commute.  When I looked into the quakes many families were commuting from Salinas.  I was looking at a 11/2-2 hour commute each way from Berkeley.


----------



## davin

Zen said:


> I agree with Davin. I recommend Mustang SC as the best bet for local and national competition and reputation, exposure, and daily proximity. The Norcal ECNL and NPL league format enables a LOT of games and variety of great local competition. I recommend looking at the game schedules of both Mustang (Norcal NPL link - the other half of ECNL club schedules) and Lamorinda for the last year and determine the best fit.


Agree with you about the value of NorCal ECNL and NPL.

@futboldad1  - In NorCal, ECNL teams usually play in two leagues, ECNL and NPL, so our ECNL teams here play in a lot of games. Being in the both leagues is great for development. Coaches use NPL game to try new things - players at different positions, formations, etc. There is less pressure to win these games, so players who don't play as much during ECNL games can get more playing time in ECNL, and because there is less pressure they can play more freely, try new things, and not afraid to make mistakes.


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## futboldad1

HUGE thank you to the nor-cal crew.....this is priceless input and information to go over with the family.....gives me a sense of the areas and clubs.....I had no idea about nil,  sounds great as my DD wants to keep playing top level ball and want high school ball too so will be joining an ECNL Club.....great community you have up in nor-cal I can see......thank you again @davin, @dad4, @Zen, @Soccerfan2


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## gotothebushes

futboldad1 said:


> plz keep this information coming 310 because there is a good chance my job takes me and my DDs (my son is a little older so I got to figure that out) to Nor Cal full-time over the coming months......trying to learn what I can about the soccer scene there.......their forum not as active


What team is your daughter currently on Socal. How far do you drive to practice? That can give us a better gauge to place your kids.


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## MacDre

futboldad1 said:


> HUGE thank you to the nor-cal crew.....this is priceless input and information to go over with the family.....gives me a sense of the areas and clubs.....I had no idea about nil,  sounds great as my DD wants to keep playing top level ball and want high school ball too so will be joining an ECNL Club.....great community you have up in nor-cal I can see......thank you again @davin, @dad4, @Zen, @Soccerfan2


Pat Uriz at Mustang SC has been very helpful and accessible.


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## MacDre

futboldad1 said:


> plz keep this information coming 310 because there is a good chance my job takes me and my DDs (my son is a little older so I got to figure that out) to Nor Cal full-time over the coming months......trying to learn what I can about the soccer scene there.......their forum not as active


What city are you thinking of moving too?


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## futboldad1

gotothebushes said:


> What team is your daughter currently on Socal. How far do you drive to practice? That can give us a better gauge to place your kids.


Real....our commute now is fast only 30 minutes but we are willing to drive up to one hour.....maybe a little bit more especially if there is less traffic and it is faster leaving practice.....



MacDre said:


> What city are you thinking of moving too?


Walnut Creek area or Stockton.........


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## MacDre

MacDre said:


> Pat Uriz at Mustang SC has been very helpful and accessible.


You should also consider your kids preferred style of play.  I think Mustang SC is very different from Lamorinda in how they approach the game.


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## MacDre

futboldad1 said:


> Real....our commute now is fast only 30 minutes but we are willing to drive up to one hour.....maybe a little bit more especially if there is less traffic and it is faster leaving practice.....
> 
> 
> 
> Walnut Creek area or Stockton.........


Walnut Creek is close to me.  Mustang and Lamorinda are basically equidistant from Walnut Creek.  So go to Lamorinda if you want a more possession style.  Go to Mustang if you want a more physical and direct style.  Depending on traffic 15-45 minutes commute to either from WC.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

futboldad1 said:


> Walnut Creek area......2006......thank you


Look at MVLA and Mustang.  Everyone else is... everyone else.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

futboldad1 said:


> Real....our commute now is fast only 30 minutes but we are willing to drive up to one hour.....maybe a little bit more especially if there is less traffic and it is faster leaving practice.....
> 
> 
> 
> Walnut Creek area or Stockton.........


Do NOT move to Stockton.  That's like saying "Encino or Compton."  Stockton is an absolute cesspool with 2 nice areas the locals are terrified to leave.


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## davin

futboldad1 said:


> Real....our commute now is fast only 30 minutes but we are willing to drive up to one hour.....maybe a little bit more especially if there is less traffic and it is faster leaving practice.....
> 
> 
> 
> Walnut Creek area or Stockton.........


If you're out in Stockton, there are no ECNL or GDA clubs close by. From Stockton to Mustang or Rage is about an hour depending on the traffic. It's worse going back home - probably an hour and half.

Another choice if you're living in Stockton would be San Juan, which is also one of the best clubs in NorCal. It would take an hour or more each way, depending on the traffic.

Since soccer seems to be a big part of you and your daughter's life and she wants to play at a high level, I would take this into consideration when choosing between Walnut Creek and Stockton.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> Walnut Creek is close to me.  Mustang and Lamorinda are basically equidistant from Walnut Creek.  So go to Lamorinda if you want a more possession style.  Go to Mustang if you want a more physical and direct style.  Depending on traffic 15-45 minutes commute to either from WC.


Walnut Creek is close to you... and your daughter in Tijuana?


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## davin

davin said:


> If you're out in Stockton, there are no ECNL or GDA clubs close by. From Stockton to Mustang or Rage is about an hour depending on the traffic. It's worse going back home - probably an hour and half.
> 
> Another choice if you're living in Stockton would be San Juan, which is also one of the best clubs in NorCal. It would take an hour or more each way, depending on the traffic.
> 
> Since soccer seems to be a big part of you and your daughter's life and she wants to play at a high level, I would take this into consideration when choosing between Walnut Creek and Stockton.


And, since a few people mentioned MVLA and Thorns, that would be a monster commute from Walnut Creek or Stockton. Consider that only if you're willing to spend 3 or 4 hours in your car each day.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

davin said:


> And, since a few people mentioned MVLA and Thorns, that would be a monster commute from Walnut Creek or Stockton. Consider that only if you're willing to spend 3 or 4 hours in your car each day.


Agreed.  If you're in WC, I think Mustang in Danville is the obvious choice.  I don't know enough about Lamo but I don't consider them equal clubs. Lamo doesn't have the reputation of moving girls onto college like Mustang does.  Even Pleasanton Rage is sliding the wrong direction.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Soccerhelper said:


> I do.  It's false rumor with lies again right again?  "What's going on" up in NoCal?  When Blues spanked them 7-0, I knew something was up.  I bet some of those girls also want to play hs soccer? I would predict that MLVA is going to be a very stronger team?  Are they all staying to finish the season?


Spanked them 7-0?  When and what age group?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

310soccer said:


> Apparently Deza is desperately trying to find someone in the area to start a new club with him. Problem is - he’s burned so many bridges here in the Bay Area and know one wants to work with him or fund it for him. He’s not the easiest person to get along with is what I’m hearing. Wonder what his #1 04 team is thinking!
> 
> Could be all lies if that’s your take. Nothing on this board is ever true right?
> 
> Apparently Deza is desperately trying to find someone in the area to start a new club with him. Problem is - he’s burned so many bridges here in the Bay Area and know one wants to work with him or fund it for him. He’s not the easiest person to get along with is what I’m hearing. Wonder what his #1 04 team is thinking!


4 of them are verbal to UCLA.  Others to Stanford, Duke, etc.  Already in pretty good shape.


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## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> Walnut Creek is close to you... and your daughter in Tijuana?


My home is in the Bay Area.  My kid attends an International school’s in TJ.


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## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> Do NOT move to Stockton.  That's like saying "Encino or Compton."  Stockton is an absolute cesspool with 2 nice areas the locals are terrified to leave.


Probably worse.  Stockton is a cesspool.  Lot’s of problems there homie...any neighborhood you’re considering drive by at night before you commit!


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## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> Agreed.  If you're in WC, I think Mustang in Danville is the obvious choice.  I don't know enough about Lamo but I don't consider them equal clubs. Lamo doesn't have the reputation of moving girls onto college like Mustang does.  Even Pleasanton Rage is sliding the wrong direction.


Lamo is a smaller club and their director is reputed to be as talented as Deza.
The good thing that I hear about LaMo is that they are very dedicated to their players as long as you’re willing to work.
I also don’t think Mo has problems putting his kids on YNT either.
I almost went there out of convenience and Mustang SC style is too direct for my liking.  

The determining factor between those 2 clubs should be based on your kids preferred style of play.
I ended up not going to LaMo because the coach I was talking to got caught in a sex sting with a minor girl.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> Look at MVLA and Mustang.  Everyone else is... everyone else.


MVLA is a great club, but the commute from WC is a nightmare.


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## Surfing10

310soccer said:


> This news has just come to my attention and it’s crazy to believe. San Jose Quakes have decided to dissolve their girls DA program because of finances despite being a pay to play model. Obviously such a  surprising move will only hurt their reputation as a professional club. Apparently costs were swelling partially because of the DOC’s salary which I was told ranged north of $250K. The new initiatives that MLS has set on the boy’s academy programs is also a huge factor in this decision. SJQ DOC also just recently reached out to both ECNL and DA clubs. The hope here is to start a league of their own and for the SJQ DOC to start a new club. Those clubs that were contacted declined this offer. SJQ teams are currently looking for homes. Apparently several teams are negotiating with MVLA. Feel sorry for those players and their families.


I‘m being told this is completely fabricated. I personally know several of the families from my DD YNT camps and trips. Their families are saying coaches and the organization laughed at the comments. They said Rumors like these start every year prior to tryouts. Usually propaganda started by local clubs. Apparently it’s quite the opposite. The Quakes organization is actually putting even more resources into the girls program.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Surfing10 said:


> I‘m being told this is completely fabricated. I personally know several of the families from my DD YNT camps and trips. Their families are saying coaches and the organization laughed at the comments. They said Rumors like these start every year prior to tryouts. Usually propaganda started by local clubs. Apparently it’s quite the opposite. The Quakes organization is actually putting even more resources into the girls program.


That's good to hear for the girls... but if Deza is making $250k+ per year, I'd be taking a hard look at that.


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## Justherefortheride

The Outlaw said:


> That's good to hear for the girls... but if Deza is making $250k+ per year, I'd be taking a hard look at that.


I don't live in the San Francisco area but wouldn't that be the entry level income needed to afford a house and a middle class life within a commutable drive?


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## davin

Surfing10 said:


> I‘m being told this is completely fabricated. I personally know several of the families from my DD YNT camps and trips. Their families are saying coaches and the organization laughed at the comments. They said Rumors like these start every year prior to tryouts. Usually propaganda started by local clubs. Apparently it’s quite the opposite. The Quakes organization is actually putting even more resources into the girls program.


I have no personal knowledge if that rumor is true, nor do I really care. But I do remember you from a couple of years ago, when there was a discussion about a tournament final game in NorCal which a Quakes team lost, and you made up that story about seeing a video that showed that the Quakes outplayed the other team and deserved to win. When people who saw the game live said the flow of the game was completely opposite of what you described from the "video" and the deserving team won, and asked you to send a link, you completely ran away. Now you're back again 2 years later, with only 3 posts to your name in all that time, and every post defending the same organization and accusing someone of spreading propoganda. LOL.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Justherefortheride said:


> I don't live in the San Francisco area but wouldn't that be the entry level income needed to afford a house and a middle class life within a commutable drive?


Not based on what I know about my friends in that area but that's an admittedly small sample size.  My friends are mostly living hand to mouth and often times have 1 vehicle.  And we're talking about both being college educated and well into their careers.  That said, a soccer DOC?  I could see $150k... but you're a damned soccer club director.  Just seems excessive to me.


----------



## 310soccer

Surfing10 said:


> I‘m being told this is completely fabricated. I personally know several of the families from my DD YNT camps and trips. Their families are saying coaches and the organization laughed at the comments. They said Rumors like these start every year prior to tryouts. Usually propaganda started by local clubs. Apparently it’s quite the opposite. The Quakes organization is actually putting even more resources into the girls program.


Heard Quakes sent out a letter saying they wont be in DA next year.  Cleverly left out the part that the club is cutting the girls! Don’t know what families you know but can’t be that close. Congrats to your YNT camp friends! Don’t know why that was important!


----------



## 310soccer

S


davin said:


> I have no personal knowledge if that rumor is true, nor do I really care. But I do remember you from a couple of years ago, when there was a discussion about a tournament final game in NorCal which a Quakes team lost, and you made up that story about seeing a video that showed that the Quakes outplayed the other team and deserved to win. When people who saw the game live said the flow of the game was completely opposite of what you described from the "video" and the deserving team won, and asked you to send a link, you completely ran away. Now you're back again 2 years later, with only 3 posts to your name in all that time, and every post defending the same organization and accusing someone of spreading propoganda. LOL.


Ding Ding! Looks like someone just got exposed! Nice work Davin!!


----------



## Soccerfan2

The Outlaw said:


> Spanked them 7-0?  When and what age group?


U17.


310soccer said:


> Heard Quakes sent out a letter saying they wont be in DA next year.  Cleverly left out the part that the club is cutting the girls! Don’t know what families you know but can’t be that close. Congrats to your YNT camp friends! Don’t know why that was important!


Can you post the letter?


----------



## Ellejustus

310soccer said:


> S
> 
> Ding Ding! Looks like someone just got exposed! Nice work Davin!!


You guys are really good.  Great job


----------



## Zen

310soccer said:


> Heard Quakes sent out a letter saying they wont be in DA next year.  Cleverly left out the part that the club is cutting the girls! Don’t know what families you know but can’t be that close. Congrats to your YNT camp friends! Don’t know why that was important!


Sounds like deja vu for Deza's followers.  Not their first rodeo, they have been with him from Bay Area Barcelona to De Anza Force, to SJ EQ.  He rewarded the loyal ones and made their dreams come true, but leaves the masses in disarray.  So sad.  

I think you're spot on.  Surfing10 can call it spin by local clubs.  I call it a pattern and spin from within.


----------



## davin

310soccer said:


> S
> 
> Ding Ding! Looks like someone just got exposed! Nice work Davin!!


Google is awesome! Found it... see the responses. LOL.  https://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/girls-04-da.2395/page-2#post-106649

That dude @Surfing10 is a poser.


----------



## Zen

davin said:


> Google is awesome! Found it... see the responses. LOL.  https://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/girls-04-da.2395/page-2#post-106649
> 
> That dude @Surfing10 is a poser.


Lol - can't believe you found that!  No receipts and no response...once again


----------

