# OC practice paused



## SoccerGuru (Jul 11, 2020)

All of OC has been told that they should not be practicing, I know some still are (cough, cough, blues). I have talked to a few coaches and they have said that this is a short pause just so the state can give clear guidelines for practice and should only last 1-2 weeks. Has anyone heard if that is true? I am thinking it might be since LA teams are still going to practice next week.


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## Sportsx2 (Jul 11, 2020)

My daughter plays for Blues, we received an email stating that all practice is paused until further notice.


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## lafalafa (Jul 12, 2020)

California Department of Public Health Office of Public Affairs claims that youth sports were never allowed to reopen under the stay at home order.

“Youth sports and recreational team sports have not been allowed at any point under California’s stay-at-home order, which was issued on March 19 and continues to be in effect,”. “No guidance has been issued for these activities and they are therefore still not allowed.”

guidance on day camps, gyms and childcare centers doesn't include youth  team sports and are not permitted to the extent that they require coaches and athletes who are not from the same household or living unit to be in close proximity,”

The California Department of Public Health has indicated that youth sports guidance would be released in the future.


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## dean (Jul 12, 2020)

We've still been practicing (Santa Clara County), but wouldn't be surprised if we're shut down, too. 

When I observe the practices, though (from my car) - these girls are spaced so far apart, in giant boxes marked by cones. They never come near another player. How can this not be safe, but putting them back in classrooms is?


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## GT45 (Jul 12, 2020)

SoccerGuru said:


> All of OC has been told that they should not be practicing, I know some still are (cough, cough, blues). I have talked to a few coaches and they have said that this is a short pause just so the state can give clear guidelines for practice and should only last 1-2 weeks. Has anyone heard if that is true? I am thinking it might be since LA teams are still going to practice next week.


The Blues are not practicing. Just stop with the lies. We all received a notice saying that we are on a temporary suspension until the state gives further notice.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 12, 2020)

GT45 said:


> The Blues are not practicing. Just stop with the lies. We all received a notice saying that we are on a temporary suspension until the state gives further notice.


Watch out for the Blues Envy Virus 45, it's freaking dangerous and can ruin your life.  Well, the old life.  The Blues have the #1 girls soccer program in Socal.  Its the truth.  I wish all the Blues parents and kids great success this season.  I know their be ready to play.  Same goes with all the other healthy soccer players that are willing to play.  Please please please please, do not come out to the fields if you have a health issue.  Please do not send your child anyways because you dont want to miss out.  Healthy kids can play soccer with zero risk.  Healthy parents can watch too, with a mask and 6 ft away from the other healthy parents.  Everyone has 6-8 weeks to get healthy.  I'm working on my own chubs and I'm super motivated


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## gkmom (Jul 12, 2020)

dean said:


> We've still been practicing (Santa Clara County), but wouldn't be surprised if we're shut down, too.
> 
> When I observe the practices, though (from my car) - these girls are spaced so far apart, in giant boxes marked by cones. They never come near another player. How can this not be safe, but putting them back in classrooms is?


If all of the clubs practiced this kind of safety it wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately many aren't. My son's club has been doing full 11v11 scrimmages, goalies and all. And from what I've seen, they aren't the only one.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 12, 2020)

gkmom said:


> If all of the clubs practiced this kind of safety it wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately many aren't. My son's club has been doing full 11v11 scrimmages, goalies and all. And from what I've seen, they aren't the only one.


Go to the beach today and walk around and take some pics and put them on here.  Close all the beaches, now!!!


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## Ellejustus (Jul 12, 2020)

Poor life guards.......


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 12, 2020)

I’ve seen baseball team practicing, tons of people on boats, outdoor restaurant  patios full, gyms full, yet 6 feet apart soccer kids can’t practice?    It’s a shame that we have different standards for youth sports.   Personally it’s more essential for a kid to get out and get exercise than it is for adults to go to the gym or Home Depot.  Contractors yes, everyone else no.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 12, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I’ve seen baseball team practicing, tons of people on boats, outdoor restaurant  patios full, gyms full, yet 6 feet apart soccer kids can’t practice?    It’s a shame that we have different standards for youth sports.   Personally it’s more essential for a kid to get out and get exercise than it is for adults to go to the gym or Home Depot.  Contractors yes, everyone else no.


I was at home depot today and it was packed with people in the garden section and home improvement section.  I did see many rules breakers less than 6 ft but everyone had mask on.  The beach is insane.  Welcome to fantasy Island everyone.  Come to the beach.  Everything else is closed. Smiles everyone, smiles!!!  I think we all need our own private island to escape the evil virus that only comes out at the soccer fields.  Never will it come out during protests, riots or the beach.  All AC technicians have to work today too.  No beach for you and if your dd plays soccer, too bad, you get your ass in our houses and fix our unit.  Plumber, same to you too.  Essential workers on work detail.  Who decides again what is essential?  AC dude has three kids and his wife is a nurse.  What do parents do like this when school starts?  Please, share wise ones....


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## Chalklines (Jul 12, 2020)

so youth soccer canceled again but masks are not required in OC?


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## paytoplay (Jul 12, 2020)

Don’t worry everyone. It’s just like the flu. Like every year about this time we reach ICU capacity. It’s very normal. No big deal.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 12, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Don’t worry everyone. It’s just like the flu. Like every year about this time we reach ICU capacity. It’s very normal. No big deal.


Please dont talk like that.  This is a killer and it kills unhealthy people.  I was not connecting the dotes before and I am now.  50% of America is unhealthy.  We need to go inside and re think  how we work, who can work, who can teach school, who can play sports and can go out for social life. I'm dead serious.  Sorry for painting with a broad brush.  It all hit this morning like a brick in the face.  I have so many teachers I call friends and they come in all sizes and all have different life challenges as well as health challenges.  If everyone could work together and do good for all and not a one size fit all, we could make this work.  Election is making things very difficult, unless you think only one side is right.


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## SoccerGuru (Jul 12, 2020)

GT45 said:


> The Blues are not practicing. Just stop with the lies. We all received a notice saying that we are on a temporary suspension until the state gives further notice.


Sorry, didn't mean ALL of blues, just a few.


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## SoccerGuru (Jul 12, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Watch out for the Blues Envy Virus 45, it's freaking dangerous and can ruin your life.  Well, the old life.  The Blues have the #1 girls soccer program in Socal.  Its the truth.  I wish all the Blues parents and kids great success this season.  I know their be ready to play.  Same goes with all the other healthy soccer players that are willing to play.  Please please please please, do not come out to the fields if you have a health issue.  Please do not send your child anyways because you dont want to miss out.  Healthy kids can play soccer with zero risk.  Healthy parents can watch too, with a mask and 6 ft away from the other healthy parents.  Everyone has 6-8 weeks to get healthy.  I'm working on my own chubs and I'm super motivated


I will do that if you just stop speaking on here in general, feel free not to comment on this post.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 12, 2020)

SoccerGuru said:


> Sorry, didn't mean ALL of blues, just a few.


That is way better.  Good job Guru


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## Sheriff Joe (Jul 12, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Don’t worry everyone. It’s just like the flu. Like every year about this time we reach ICU capacity. It’s very normal. No big deal.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 12, 2020)

SoccerGuru said:


> I will do that if you just stop speaking on here in general, feel free not to comment on this post.


So only Guru can give out information?


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## GT45 (Jul 12, 2020)

SoccerGuru said:


> Sorry, didn't mean ALL of blues, just a few.


Your jealously is telling. You don't know a few blues teams that are training because the Blues have told their coaches and players it is a no go. If you know teams doing it say so, otherwise stop with the false rumor mongering. Personal training a few players is not Blues training either.


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## timbuck (Jul 12, 2020)

Plenty of teams out there (not just soccer) holding “unofficial” practices this coming week. 
Anyone know the penalty for violating the order?


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## Mosafie (Jul 12, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Plenty of teams out there (not just soccer) holding “unofficial” practices this coming week.
> Anyone know the penalty for violating the order?


Sure. Someone gets sick. Ends up in the hospital or worse and whatever coach, parents, or club organized the practice gets blamed and loses everything. The liability is much worse than any health department penalty.

You would have to be pretty dumb to organized practices in this mess. Official or not.

What is to be gained specially since there probably wont be any games in the fall.


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## timbuck (Jul 12, 2020)

Mosafie said:


> Sure. Someone gets sick. Ends up in the hospital or worse and whatever coach, parents, or club organized the practice gets blamed and loses everything. The liability is much worse than any health department penalty.
> 
> You would have to be pretty dumb to organized practices in this mess. Official or not.
> 
> What is to be gained specially since there probably wont be any games in the fall.


I think the “gain” is that clubs can justify the cost for “club soccer”. 
It will be very interesting to watch this unfold.


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## Mosafie (Jul 12, 2020)

Youth sports were never allowed by state under day camp guidelines.

Here is the letter from the OC.



			https://1ccaxf2hhhbh1jcwiktlicz7-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/20-18A-OPAD-Summer-Sports-Programs-CORRECTED.pdf
		


There wont be youth sports until the California Department of public health releases direct guidelines for youth sports. Even then some sports such as football are considered high risk and still wont be allowed.

New York has only recently started allowed low risk sports to start training. Soccer is probably considered moderately high risk compared to sports like tennis or golf.


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## GT45 (Jul 13, 2020)

Some states are full on playing with tournaments and all. There is a huge spectrum of what the different states are doing.


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Jul 13, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Plenty of teams out there (not just soccer) holding “unofficial” practices this coming week.
> Anyone know the penalty for violating the order?


How will they penalize clubs that are caught to many to even keep count. Can south doesn’t even know what’s going on.  cites are allowing to have “camps” and not abiding by state law. And those that are having camp or unofficial practices are having parents sign waivers to not hold the city or club/team liable. So what’s their to really do


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Jul 13, 2020)

Mosafie said:


> Youth sports were never allowed by state under day camp guidelines.
> 
> Here is the letter from the OC.
> 
> ...


I keep seeing letters from OC but what about LA county I haven’t seen anything published. I know all cities are not permitted but nothing on paper  maybe that what they need to stop


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## Timan (Jul 13, 2020)

I am in NorCal. Our county order effective today spells "modified version of contact sports are allowed". The practice with 6' distance seems OK in NorCal.

"Some recreational sports such as tennis, bowling, running, or archery, during which you can maintain six feet of distance. Only modified versions of contact sports are allowed to maintain distance — such as shooting hoops on a basketball court, but not playing competitively."


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## lafalafa (Jul 13, 2020)

Futbol2dmaxxx said:


> I keep seeing letters from OC but what about LA county I haven’t seen anything published. I know all cities are not permitted but nothing on paper  maybe that what they need to stop


There where very limited outfoor facilities permitting youth sports camps in the County, several had plans to reopen but those where derailed last week when Ventura, San Bernardino, and now OC all got the same clarification for the state dept of health. 

Camps go for another couple weeks and school starts up so that gig has just about run it's course so to move forward we all need the youth sports guidance from the state one way or the other if we want anything but drills 6 feet apart.


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## lafalafa (Jul 13, 2020)

Timan said:


> I am in NorCal. Our county order effective today spells "modified version of contact sports are allowed". The practice with 6' distance seems OK in NorCal.
> 
> "Some recreational sports such as tennis, bowling, running, or archery, during which you can maintain six feet of distance. Only modified versions of contact sports are allowed to maintain distance — such as shooting hoops on a basketball court, but not playing competitively."


Can you expand on that or provide some documents or link to what actually this is?

Football and soccer specific. Thanks


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## Timan (Jul 13, 2020)

Here’s what can reopen in Santa Clara County starting Monday
					

Indoor gatherings are off the “yes” list after a last-minute county decision Friday, but a slew of other businesses and activities can start up again.



					www.mercurynews.com
				




Sorry, my previous post was a summerly from news, but look at the original county order, the team practice with distance is still gray in NorCal as well. No order updated for "organized children's athletic activity."


"This Directive does not apply to organized children’s recreational and athletic businesses and activities, including but not limited to children’s camps, classes, programs, practices, and competitions.

_*Recreational and Athletic Activities*_


_Recreational and Athletic Activities that Involve Close Contact are Prohibited_
Participating in sports or recreational activities that involve *physical contact* *or* *close physical proximity (within 6 feet)* to people outside your household is not allowed because of the risk that such activities could spread COVID-19. These activities include, but are not limited to, football, rugby, basketball, baseball, soccer, boxing and martial arts, partner and team dance, water polo, hockey, lacrosse, and ultimate frisbee.
However, these sports and activities are allowed to the extent people can engage in a *modified version*of the activity while maintaining 6 feet of social distance at all times.
*Example: *A recreational facility opens its outdoor basketball court to its members.  Members are not allowed to play a competitive basketball game, but are allowed to shoot baskets and dribble around the court as long as they do not come within 6 feet of one another.  The facility must also comply with all other requirements of the Order issued July 2 and this Directive."








						Mandatory Directive for Recreational and Athletic Activities and Facilities - Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) - County of Santa Clara
					






					www.sccgov.org


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## Mosafie (Jul 13, 2020)

LA unified announced they wont open so this fall so that basically means no to field permits at any LA school.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 13, 2020)

Mosafie said:


> LA unified announced they wont open so this fall so that basically means no to field permits at any LA school.


Unless the county relaxes it’s youth sports policy.  They would continue to loose a lot of money if they can’t issue permits for field rental.

my heart goes out to all the families with 2 working parents and young kids who will have to figure out a way to educated their kids remotely while balancing their work schedules.


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## lafalafa (Jul 13, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Unless the county relaxes it’s youth sports policy.  They would continue to loose a lot of money if they can’t issue permits for field rental.
> 
> my heart goes out to all the families with 2 working parents and young kids who will have to figure out a way to educated their kids remotely while balancing their work schedules.


Yeah that's ruff on families.

We asked the LA school district about field rentals possiblites if schools where not open in the fall session.  Besides telling us soccer has to come after football there answer was...we  have no plans to even take applications for permits if the schools are not open.


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## Mosafie (Jul 13, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Yeah that's ruff on families.
> 
> We asked the LA school district about field rentals possiblites if schools where not open in the fall session.  Besides telling us soccer has to come after football there answer was...we  have no plans to even take applications for permits if the schools are not open.


They will probably furlough a bunch of maintenance workers. There will be no need to maintain grounds if there are no inschool sport activities. There will be massive cost cutting everywhere.


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## SoccerGuru (Jul 13, 2020)

GT45 said:


> Your jealously is telling. You don't know a few blues teams that are training because the Blues have told their coaches and players it is a no go. If you know teams doing it say so, otherwise stop with the false rumor mongering. Personal training a few players is not Blues training either.


I can promise you it's not a rumor, but seeing how defensive you got about it is kind of telling that you know as well.


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## GT45 (Jul 13, 2020)

SoccerGuru said:


> I can promise you it's not a rumor, but seeing how defensive you got about it is kind of telling that you know as well.


I am defensive because you are spreading b.s. You love to attack the Blues. I have seen the email from their leadership. NO Training. Period. It is also on their social media. You want to spread this general allegation, yet are too cowardly to put a team behind this. I am amazed at how juvenile adults act on these boards. I thought we were all out of junior high school.


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## SoccerGuru (Jul 15, 2020)

GT45 said:


> I am defensive because you are spreading b.s. You love to attack the Blues. I have seen the email from their leadership. NO Training. Period. It is also on their social media. You want to spread this general allegation, yet are too cowardly to put a team behind this. I am amazed at how juvenile adults act on these boards. I thought we were all out of junior high school.


Ok you just confirmed you are on that team, eventually you guys will get caught. Also, you are right...an email has always stopped people from breaking the rules.


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## ginga (Jul 15, 2020)

SoccerGuru said:


> Ok you just confirmed you are on that team, eventually you guys will get caught. Also, you are right...an email has always stopped people from breaking the rules.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> many are not following the rules from teams practicing on the DL to strength and agility training to coaches charging their own players for “private sessions”.  The last one is the one that gets me. Sounds very unethical to me. Sad part is parents go along with it for fear that their kids will fall behind.


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## ginga (Jul 15, 2020)

many are not following the rules from teams practicing on the DL to strength and agility training to coaches charging their own players for “private sessions”. The last one is the one that gets me. Sounds very unethical to me. Sad part is parents go along with it for fear that their kids will fall behind.


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## timbuck (Jul 15, 2020)

Any OC teams trying to practice in San Diego?  (Hint-  yes.)


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## GT45 (Jul 15, 2020)

SoccerGuru said:


> Ok you just confirmed you are on that team, eventually you guys will get caught. Also, you are right...an email has always stopped people from breaking the rules.


Jackass my kid is not on that team. And, I have not heard a single team in the club training. If you want to spread rumors be man enough to name the team. Otherwise, you are just a coward trying to smear a club with no facts. Your envy of the Blues is hilarious.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)




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## Hugh Jasol (Jul 15, 2020)

ginga said:


> many are not following the rules from teams practicing on the DL to strength and agility training to coaches charging their own players for “private sessions”. The last one is the one that gets me. Sounds very unethical to me. Sad part is parents go along with it for fear that their kids will fall behind.


Are the players required to go the private sessions?  Which club is this coach from or is this common practice amongst many clubs/coaches?


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## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)

Hugh Jasol said:


> Are the players required to go the private sessions?  Which club is this coach from or is this common practice amongst many clubs/coaches?


I hear its cut throat now days.  I'm hearing from the rumor mill that some teams are looking outside of OC to practice.  Serious commitment and I might say some dads are Jonesing. 

Coach:  Where were you
Player:  Shelter in place
Coach:  Off the team.  Go get your things and never come back


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## futboldad1 (Jul 15, 2020)

Hugh Jasol said:


> Are the players required to go the private sessions?  Which club is this coach from or is this common practice amongst many clubs/coaches?


A coach charging his own team members for privates is a disgrace..... in a pandemic no less so kids feeling pressure to do them parents pressure to pay....... name and shame.... even worse if coaching is not the only source of income for whichever scumbag this is..... too many coaches just want money and don’t care about the kids well being at all....


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Jul 15, 2020)

So what’s the rules with beach practices? I notice teams practicing at the beach a lot lately


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## Sokrplayer75 (Jul 16, 2020)

Futbol2dmaxxx said:


> So what’s the rules with beach practices? I notice teams practicing at the beach a lot lately


Its the 'Wild West' out here in socal!


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## chiefs (Jul 16, 2020)

Mosafie said:


> Youth sports were never allowed by state under day camp guidelines.
> 
> Here is the letter from the OC.
> 
> ...


Nobody will "police" this crazy over the top freak control of government policies. Just name them here if you got the guts....


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## ginga (Jul 16, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Nobody will "police" this crazy over the top freak control of government policies. Just name them here if you got the guts....


no secret said it before Esteban lasc/strikers coach. Use to have venmo set up for payment but called him out in other post and stopped venmo.


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## paytoplay (Jul 16, 2020)

ginga said:


> no secret said it before Esteban lasc/strikers coach. Use to have venmo set up for payment but called him out in other post and stopped venmo.


Pay to play, the American way.


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## timbuck (Jul 16, 2020)

Futbol2dmaxxx said:


> So what’s the rules with beach practices? I notice teams practicing at the beach a lot lately


As long as you don't wear a club jersey you can do whatever you want (according to pretty much everyone)


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## ToonArmy (Jul 16, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Any OC teams trying to practice in San Diego?  (Hint-  yes.)


Are these San Diego practices going to be with less covid regulations than what they had at Great Park? It's a long drive to just stand in your own 6x6 square and juggle.


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Jul 16, 2020)

timbuck said:


> As long as you don't wear a club jersey you can do whatever you want (according to pretty much everyone)


That what I seen lately masses of teams or a small groups of 6/8 players.


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## chiefs (Jul 16, 2020)

Futbol2dmaxxx said:


> That what I seen lately masses of teams or a small groups of 6/8 players.


Parents taking charge of their kids life with little to zero risk with Covid and since nobody in government has the will to police kids actions.  And if a problem does arise, just video tape the bureaucrat hack and forward to Fox for a profit.


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## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Any OC teams trying to practice in San Diego?  (Hint-  yes.)


I'm in SD and I'm glad my son is practicing, but soccer is just not THAT important to him, or I, that we'd travel to another county for practice.  Maybe if I thought the season was going to start anytime soon, I'd think differently.  Our first game is scheduled for Sep 12 but that's just a pipe dream in my mind.



ToonArmy said:


> Are these San Diego practices going to be with less covid regulations than what they had at Great Park? It's a long drive to just stand in your own 6x6 square and juggle.


Technically they're still supposed to be full social distanced etc, but what is being done can differ dramatically.  I know Clubs that have strict rules about players staying in their individual zones and teams that are having internal scrimmages.  I'm not aware of any Clubs or teams that are practicing on the DL in non-club gear, but I wouldn't be surprised if its happening.


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## timbuck (Jul 16, 2020)

Ask yourself this- Why are coaches sneaking around having practices?  Or having a parent run a practice with kids in RVCA t-shirts?
Is it for the kids?
Is it to prepare for the season?
Is it to justify the club dues that are being paid?


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## futboldad1 (Jul 16, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Ask yourself this- Why are coaches sneaking around having practices?  Or having a parent run a practice with kids in RVCA t-shirts?
> Is it for the kids?
> Is it to prepare for the season?
> Is it to justify the club dues that are being paid?


Our DDs need to see their friends and exercise...... if that can be done safely, and it can with social distancing, then it should be done.... shame on coaches running contact sessions or charging their team on the side......


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## SoccerGuru (Jul 16, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Ask yourself this- Why are coaches sneaking around having practices?  Or having a parent run a practice with kids in RVCA t-shirts?
> Is it for the kids?
> Is it to prepare for the season?
> Is it to justify the club dues that are being paid?


Careful, certain parents will call you a jackass and tell you their club sent an email and that none of their coaches break the rules. 
Sorry that was a dig at GT45 who is on one of the teams that is still scrimmaging and training.

but to address your question, I understand not wanting to fork over money for less than what was promised, many of us are in the same situation. But we are in a tough spot and so are clubs. We could look out for ourselves and not pay the clubs but then they would most likely go under and where would the kids play post covid? Or do you think the clubs could survive? I am really not sure the answer to all these which is why your questions are extremely valid but  I don't see a perfect answer. We don't like getting less for our money but our kids need the clubs and their coaches. What do you think?


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## Fact (Jul 16, 2020)

ToonArmy said:


> Are these San Diego practices going to be with less covid regulations than what they had at Great Park? It's a long drive to just stand in your own 6x6 square and juggle.





watfly said:


> I'm in SD and I'm glad my son is practicing, but soccer is just not THAT important to him, or I, that we'd travel to another county for practice.


I am out of state so have not been following the latest.  I thought SD, OC and LA are on the same naughty list and practices could not continue under the day camp loophole. What am I missing? I thought the OC with their Board, they would be ahead of the liberal leaning SD.


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## dean (Jul 16, 2020)

Seems like we're still in the clear to continue training in NorCal. Girls still spread really far apart, lots of rules, coaches in masks, no contact, etc. Updated rules sent out this week emphasizing masks to be worn to/from car to field. Also, something about the players have to be 10 yards apart at all times. But other than that, our trainings continue. I hope, at the very least, this kind of training remains. It's safer than the classroom. Exercise, plus seeing their friends, etc. So important for their physical and mental health.


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## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

Fact said:


> I am out of state so have not been following the latest.  I thought SD, OC and LA are on the same naughty list and practices could not continue under the day camp loophole. What am I missing? I thought the OC with their Board, they would be ahead of the liberal leaning SD.


Good question, and I don't have an answer for you.  Here are some possibilities.

1) SD County is just giving Newsom the middle finger (my preferred answer, but unlikely)
2) SD County has not been notified directly by Sacto that there is no youth sports allowed under the Day Camp allowance, and SD is just playing dumb
3) The fact that youth sports is practicing in SD County hasn't come to the attention of Newsom (we are at the bottom of the state you know).

What I really think is happening is that SD has been very proactive regarding youth sports.  The SD County supervisors approved youth sports under the Day Camp allowance, including approval from the counties Public Health Officer.  And so far Newsom hasn't messed with SD's youth sports.  I don't know that other counties went through that internal approval process and clubs and teams just assumed they could play under the Day Camp allowance.  I also think Newsom has it out for the OC.

At the end of the day, none of this makes sense, and my post certainly has not made anything any clearer.


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## Fact (Jul 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> Good question, and I don't have an answer for you.  Here are some possibilities.
> 
> 1) SD County is just giving Newsom the middle finger (my preferred answer, but unlikely)
> 2) SD County has not been notified directly by Sacto that there is no youth sports allowed under the Day Camp allowance, and SD is just playing dumb
> ...


I would guess it is #3, being at the bottom of the state. Unfortunately i have a feeling tho it is political and the children in the OC are pawns.


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## jpeter (Jul 16, 2020)

timbuck said:


> As long as you don't wear a club jersey you can do whatever you want (according to pretty much everyone)


Bunch of my sons friends wear club clothing, favorite team, random stuff,  they don't match or look like a team or anything and there a


timbuck said:


> Ask yourself this- Why are coaches sneaking around having practices?  Or having a parent run a practice with kids in RVCA t-shirts?
> Is it for the kids?
> Is it to prepare for the season?
> Is it to justify the club dues that are being paid?


My son gets back from the beach the other day and tells two former pro players where down there "training" "tiny" kids in his words.. 

There where 5 chp type police people on quads with hemets roaming the sand.  They approached the former pros, he was thinking they would tell them to move along.  Nope they stopped for pictures and a talk instead no masks from them or the pros, went on there way kids continued, he says everyone is doing there thing at the beach just like they always have.  Some beach cities  have fines for non mask compliance but yet to see or hear about any enforcement going on and few kids seems to concerned with them.


----------



## dean (Jul 16, 2020)

Are teams around Sacto still training? I thought many of them were.


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Jul 16, 2020)

dean said:


> Are teams around Sacto still training? I thought many of them were.


Yes. Same rules. Masks from car to field and back, hand sanitizer, no contact/players spread apart, coaches wear masks at all times.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> Good question, and I don't have an answer for you.  Here are some possibilities.
> 
> 1) SD County is just giving Newsom the middle finger (my preferred answer, but unlikely)
> 2) SD County has not been notified directly by Sacto that there is no youth sports allowed under the Day Camp allowance, and SD is just playing dumb
> ...


I think you are right.  The San Diego health director is also probably between a rock and a hard place.  Technically, no practices are authorized ANYWHERE in California right now.  State law trumps local law, though because it's a directive it's on weird ground.

The way it played out in Ventura County was a clarification issued by the county health director.  Unlike San Diego, there wasn't in VC an explicit buy in by the Supervisors.  Since San Diego health has 2 reports (to the state and to the Supervisors), it puts them in a horrible place.

But if what is rumored to happen with California schools happens tomorrow from the governor, it's only a matter of time before San Diego gets shut down as well.  With San Fran now shuttering schools, I can't imagine any practices there go on much further.  In VC we got another week than did the lower 3 counties, but it's just a matter of the shoe dropping now (if the Governor does make the announcement).  No way the governor can tell people youth sports are "safe", but the schools (including the private ones and home school cooperatives) must remain shuttered.  Not only politically not feasible but it could subject him to a law suit.  I wouldn't be surprised if even the remaining real day camps go bye bye for August.


----------



## lafalafa (Jul 16, 2020)

dean said:


> Seems like we're still in the clear to continue training in NorCal. Girls still spread really far apart, lots of rules, coaches in masks, no contact, etc. Updated rules sent out this week emphasizing masks to be worn to/from car to field. Also, something about the players have to be 10 yards apart at all times. But other than that, our trainings continue. I hope, at the very least, this kind of training remains. It's safer than the classroom. Exercise, plus seeing their friends, etc. So important for their physical and mental health.


Camps are kind of sacred and nobody really wants to take those away from the kids which they shouldn't.  Our college daughter has been a virtual and in-person counselor,  she and the kids have been loving it.

Summer camps are just about over in couple weeks so soccer under camps is going to find another way.  Those counties that have asked for clarification have gotten them from the state, the don't ask dont tell tactic that some other are still using has been somewhat ignored but additional variances have been denied and some backlash or denials have happen for those going there own way it's seems.  Youth sports guidance from SD was sent to governor a month ago and he didn't act on that request and he brought up cousins saying a soccer ball saying that is not a good idea.


----------



## Fact (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I think you are right.  The San Diego health director is also probably between a rock and a hard place.  Technically, no practices are authorized ANYWHERE in California right now.  State law trumps local law, though because it's a directive it's on weird ground.
> 
> The way it played out in Ventura County was a clarification issued by the county health director.  Unlike San Diego, there wasn't in VC an explicit buy in by the Supervisors.  Since San Diego health has 2 reports (to the state and to the Supervisors), it puts them in a horrible place.
> 
> But if what is rumored to happen with California schools happens tomorrow from the governor, it's only a matter of time before San Diego gets shut down as well.  With San Fran now shuttering schools, I can't imagine any practices there go on much further.  In VC we got another week than did the lower 3 counties, but it's just a matter of the shoe dropping now (if the Governor does make the announcement).  No way the governor can tell people youth sports are "safe", but the schools (including the private ones and home school cooperatives) must remain shuttered.  Not only politically not feasible but it could subject him to a law suit.  I wouldn't be surprised if even the remaining real day camps go bye bye for August.


I guess it would be too sensible to say soccer practice is ok since it is outside.  Probably no hope for any games once the other shoe drops tomorrow.  Obviously he is getting pressure from the Teacher's union since he said a few weeks ago that he was going to leave each county decide whether to reopen schools.


----------



## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

Fact said:


> I am out of state so have not been following the latest.  I thought SD, OC and LA are on the same naughty list and practices could not continue under the day camp loophole. What am I missing? I thought the OC with their Board, they would be ahead of the liberal leaning SD.


The San Diego County Board of Supervisors has been notoriously non-liberal for as long as I can remember.


----------



## gkmom (Jul 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> Good question, and I don't have an answer for you.  Here are some possibilities.
> 
> 1) SD County is just giving Newsom the middle finger (my preferred answer, but unlikely)
> 2) SD County has not been notified directly by Sacto that there is no youth sports allowed under the Day Camp allowance, and SD is just playing dumb
> ...


My guess is #2


----------



## Fact (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> The San Diego County Board of Supervisors has been notoriously non-liberal for as long as I can remember.


Since when? You might want to tell Jim and Kristin who have been the only voices of reason during this whole mess.


----------



## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

Fact said:


> Since when? You might want to tell Jim and Kristin who have been the only voices of reason during this whole mess.


But not Greg and Dianne?


----------



## Fact (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> But not Greg and Dianne?


I go by voting record not party affiliation. I worked with Greg when he was mayor in CV and even then I thought he was a wolf in sheep’s clothing.


----------



## notintheface (Jul 16, 2020)

Fact said:


> I would guess it is #3, being at the bottom of the state. Unfortunately i have a feeling tho it is political and the children in the OC are pawns.


I mean, break up those idiotic MAGA Huntington Beach protests and you get soccer training back, that's a pretty good deal, I'd sure take it. Fewer dummy cultists ranting about their oxygen levels, and my kid gets to be out on the field? Where do I sign up?


----------



## Soccer Bum 06 (Jul 16, 2020)

Fact said:


> I guess it would be too sensible to say soccer practice is ok since it is outside.  Probably no hope for any games once the other shoe drops tomorrow.  Obviously he is getting pressure from the Teacher's union since he said a few weeks ago that he was going to leave each county decide whether to reopen schools.


This is the same governor who just a couple months ago talked about opening schools early due to the loss of learning. Now since Trump has said he wants schools open he does a 180. I understand most of this state leans democratic but this is so transparently political you can’t deny it.


----------



## SoccerGuru (Jul 16, 2020)

Almost made it to page 5 with soccer being the main topic on a soccer forum. So close.


----------



## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

SoccerGuru said:


> Almost made it to page 5 with soccer being the main topic on a soccer forum. So close.


It didn't make it past page 1.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 16, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Pay to play, the American way.


That’s where we live.


----------



## Mic Nificent (Jul 16, 2020)

I’m in SD. Kids play for different clubs and both practice 2x per week in full club gear with social distancing measures in place along with mask and temp check before practice. Neither club seems to be hiding anything....


----------



## Fact (Jul 16, 2020)

Mic Nificent said:


> I’m in SD. Kids play for different clubs and both practice 2x per week in full club gear with social distancing measures in place along with mask and temp check before practice. Neither club seems to be hiding anything....


Just curious, do they practice at parks or schools?  If the City is giving permits for parks that could be a good sign.


----------



## Fact (Jul 16, 2020)

A


Fact said:


> Just curious, do they practice at parks or schools?  If the City is giving permits for parks that could be a good sign.


Also are all kiddos on the team practicing or are some parents holding them out for their safety or the safety of a family member at home?


----------



## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

Fact said:


> Just curious, do they practice at parks or schools?  If the City is giving permits for parks that could be a good sign.


We practice in full club practice gear at a public park (with city approval), a city school field and a city owned property that the club leases and has exclusive use (although the club is reseeding the field).  Nothing on the DL.



Fact said:


> Also are all kiddos on the team practicing or are some parents holding them out for their safety or the safety of a family member at home?


All kids are participating with the exception of one kid who lost an aunt to Covid; however, there is some debate as to why the kid isn't at practice.


----------



## Mic Nificent (Jul 16, 2020)

One kid at a park and the other at a high school. Ive seen all teammates at practice at one time or another. Some kids miss practice here and there


----------



## Fact (Jul 16, 2020)

Mic Nificent said:


> One kid at a park and the other at a high school. Ive seen all teammates at practice at one time or another. Some kids miss practice here and there


Interesting, I thought all school sites were closed.


----------



## surfertwins (Jul 18, 2020)

LAFC and Slammers scrimmaging this weekend?


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 18, 2020)

surfertwins said:


> LAFC and Slammers scrimmaging this weekend?


What age group(s)?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 18, 2020)

surfertwins said:


> LAFC and Slammers scrimmaging this weekend?


Follow the Governors rules is our family motto.  EOTL said I was a dam fool for taking free soccer and now I'm efing an idiot because I have an opinion. It's just opinion and I'm not breaking the rules like some are.  We all wear mask in the fearsome foursome.  No cheating!!!  My dd will not scrimmage although she would like too.  Her last scrimmage was the first week of March.  BTW, IMO that no one will die from these secret soccer games and I actually love the fact their going out to play.


----------



## Fact (Jul 18, 2020)

surfertwins said:


> LAFC and Slammers scrimmaging this weekend?


Why nark?  You should be happy that your kiddos are practicing in San Diego while the OC suffers because their leaders took a stand against the idiot’s beach ban.


----------



## Jose has returned (Jul 18, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> That’s where we live.


been like this for years.  why do people act like this is new?  show me the list of coaches that are willing to work for free?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 18, 2020)

Fact said:


> Why nark?  You should be happy that your kiddos are practicing in San Diego while the OC suffers because their leaders took a stand against the idiot’s beach ban.


OC got in trouble when some morons decided to send death threats to a mom with kids.

Dont like it?   Stop holding parties "for just a few friends" and wear your damn mask.


----------



## lafalafa (Jul 18, 2020)

surfertwins said:


> LAFC and Slammers scrimmaging this weekend?


Not the boys must be a interclub type of deal for girls.


----------



## timbuck (Jul 18, 2020)

surfertwins said:


> LAFC and Slammers scrimmaging this weekend?


Gotta use those Capelli uniform sometime.


----------



## BarcaLover (Jul 18, 2020)

surfertwins said:


> LAFC and Slammers scrimmaging this weekend?


Negative Ghostrider


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 18, 2020)

Jose has returned said:


> been like this for years.  why do people act like this is new?  show me the list of coaches that are willing to work for free?


You know how commies are.


----------



## timbuck (Jul 18, 2020)

Oc teams renting fields in Oceanside.  No need to follow the rules if you can make up your own.
Imagine driving an hour for social distanced practice on a weekend with no games for a while


----------



## keeprunning (Jul 18, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Oc teams renting fields in Oceanside.  No need to follow the rules if you can make up your own.
> Imagine driving an hour for social distanced practice on a weekend with no games for a whole.


This is a great idea. Great job West Coast.


----------



## Frank (Jul 18, 2020)

keeprunning said:


> This is a great idea. Great job West Coast.


So is SD not under Comrade Newsoms shutdown?  I thought all counties were.


----------



## Fact (Jul 18, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Oc teams renting fields in Oceanside.  No need to follow the rules if you can make up your own.
> Imagine driving an hour for social distanced practice on a weekend with no games for a while


I think this is great. They are following the rules and kiddos need to be outdoors, exercise and socialize with their friends.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jul 18, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Gotta use those Capelli uniform sometime.


Do your kids have a pair?


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 19, 2020)

dad4 said:


> OC got in trouble when some morons decided to send death threats to a mom with kids.
> 
> Dont like it?   Stop holding parties "for just a few friends" and wear your damn mask.


I heard some additional info on that situation and Voice of OC called the OC supervisors out on it in a press conference....basically the whole Board of supervisors were mocking this woman in board meetings.  So it is more than the famous idiot that all of the Karen's love Peggy Hall which was the big leader on the anti-mask movement in OC that lead to the death threats.  That is baffling to me....at what point did people think listening to a yoga expert for legal analysis and medical knowledge was a good idea?  I guess we can now see how people get caught up in cults.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 19, 2020)

The State created this situation of teams going "rogue" with at times less protocols and even some dangerous ones.  One coach has even suggested practicing indoors.   I know that for fact.   I am guessing that is to hide given the mandates.

Our kids should be allowed some semblance of normalcy doing an activity OUTDOORS and socially distanced since all of the experts have determined that to be a low risk activity including the CDC.   I would drive an hour to give my kid that right now.  I don't think there is enough information yet about playing games but we are watching a live experiment this month with the woman's national league playing and MLS  playing in Florida of all places.


----------



## lafalafa (Jul 19, 2020)

Driving across County lines for drills?, Don't think my player would bother.  

School starts up in a couple weeks, online or not ours requires live attendance during the day so early evening or night practicing will be the only options going forward for my player.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 19, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I hear its cut throat now days.  I'm hearing from the rumor mill that some teams are looking outside of OC to practice.  Serious commitment and I might say some dads are Jonesing.
> 
> Coach:  Where were you
> Player:  Shelter in place
> Coach:  Off the team.  Go get your things and never come back


I’m calling b.s.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 19, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I’m calling b.s.


So you and ESPY thinks that's BS lie?


----------



## GT45 (Jul 19, 2020)

These clubs (WCFC and Slammers) are putting themselves at significant legal liability. The Governors order covers the entire state. 

I read an article about a 21 year old who ignored his mom's advice on going out. He went out with friends, caught the virus, gave it to his entire family, dad is in the hospital, and was put on a ventilator. WCFC posting their intentions to think outside the box to outmaneuver the governor is a lawyers dream. Idiots.


----------



## Not_that_Serious (Jul 19, 2020)

GT45 said:


> These clubs (WCFC and Slammers) are putting themselves at significant legal liability. The Governors order covers the entire state.
> 
> I read an article about a 21 year old who ignored his mom's advice on going out. He went out with friends, caught the virus, gave it to his entire family, dad is in the hospital, and was put on a ventilator. WCFC posting their intentions to think outside the box to outmaneuver the governor is a lawyers dream. Idiots.


 Good Ol Liverpool had soccer camps all week in OC. Always at the forefront of figuring out how to keep the money flowing.


----------



## timbuck (Jul 19, 2020)

I think not practicing sucks.  I think we should all be out there. 
Governor has given orders for no team sports. Yet tons of soccer, softball, baseball and volleyball teams are coming up with “creative” ways around these orders. 
Either we all say “screw it. We’re gonna practice.  Take whatever field you can get on (with or without a permit).  Kids can show up if they/their parents feel it is safe”
Or-  we all listen.  And the state, cal south, us soccer and any other governing body needs to come down with harsh penalties for those that don’t listen. 
Right now -  what are we teaching our kids?  If you don’t like the rules, it’s cool to break them.


----------



## Fact (Jul 19, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I think not practicing sucks.  I think we should all be out there.
> Governor has given orders for no team sports. Yet tons of soccer, softball, baseball and volleyball teams are coming up with “creative” ways around these orders.
> Either we all say “screw it. We’re gonna practice.  Take whatever field you can get on (with or without a permit).  Kids can show up if they/their parents feel it is safe”
> Or-  we all listen.  And the state, cal south, us soccer and any other governing body needs to come down with harsh penalties for those that don’t listen.
> Right now -  what are we teaching our kids?  If you don’t like the rules, it’s cool to break them.


Or just call it a peaceful protest.


----------



## jimlewis (Jul 19, 2020)

Just curious, has anyone heard of any of the numerous soccer tournaments being played around the country right now being "super spreader" events?


----------



## SoccerFnatic (Jul 19, 2020)

surfertwins said:


> LAFC and Slammers scrimmaging this weekend?


Confirmed regarding Slammers. They are reaching out to players from other clubs to participate as well.


----------



## timbuck (Jul 19, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> Just curious, has anyone heard of any of the numerous soccer tournaments being played around the country right now being "super spreader" events?


This is from last week in St Louis.








						Youth sports a driver of COVID-19 infections in St. Louis area
					

"Schools aren't even in session and we're seeing this increase," a St. Louis County health department spokesman said.




					www.stltoday.com


----------



## keeprunning (Jul 19, 2020)

GT45 said:


> These clubs (WCFC and Slammers) are putting themselves at significant legal liability. The Governors order covers the entire state.
> 
> I read an article about a 21 year old who ignored his mom's advice on going out. He went out with friends, caught the virus, gave it to his entire family, dad is in the hospital, and was put on a ventilator. WCFC posting their intentions to think outside the box to outmaneuver the governor is a lawyers dream. Idiots.


I believe clubs all over LA and SD never stopped training camps. Just OC. Can someone in LA of SD confirm this?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 19, 2020)

keeprunning said:


> I believe clubs all over LA and SD never stopped training camps. Just OC. Can someone in LA of SD confirm this?


Norcal here.  Six feet apart, own ball, not even 1v1.  

Backpacks are lined up 10 feet apart on the sidelines.

Not many fields available for rent, so many only get camp one or two days a week.


----------



## pokergod (Jul 19, 2020)

GT45 said:


> These clubs (WCFC and Slammers) are putting themselves at significant legal liability. The Governors order covers the entire state.
> 
> I read an article about a 21 year old who ignored his mom's advice on going out. He went out with friends, caught the virus, gave it to his entire family, dad is in the hospital, and was put on a ventilator. WCFC posting their intentions to think outside the box to outmaneuver the governor is a lawyers dream. Idiots.


I hear a bunch of the clubs have changed the "practice" to a "day camp" to get around the OC shut down.   I drove past a huge baseball kid camp the other day at a park, quite shocking to see that many kids playing in close quarters.


----------



## Mic Nificent (Jul 19, 2020)

SD still training.....


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 19, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Norcal here.  Six feet apart, own ball, not even 1v1.
> 
> Backpacks are lined up 10 feet apart on the sidelines.
> 
> Not many fields available for rent, so many only get camp one or two days a week.


Yep, same for us in NorCal


----------



## timbuck (Jul 19, 2020)

pokergod said:


> I hear a bunch of the clubs have changed the "practice" to a "day camp" to get around the OC shut down.   I drove past a huge baseball kid camp the other day at a park, quite shocking to see that many kids playing in close quarters.


Not quite the same as a soccer “camp” but interesting news.  I think most of the states that are mentioned in the article are also allowing sports in full swing.









						Summer Camps Have Become a New Hotbed for COVID-19 Spread
					

COVID-19 outbreaks at day camps and sleepaway camps are throwing yet another wrench in summer plans across the U.S.




					www.vice.com


----------



## chiefs (Jul 19, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Not quite the same as a soccer “camp” but interesting news.  I think most of the states that are mentioned in the article are also allowing sports in full swing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is total fake news.  Gullible people don’t research authors of articles.  Stop posting crap here.








						Vice Hires Katie Way, Reporter Who Wrote Aziz Ansari Misconduct Story
					

"I’m gonna be a staff writer for the Life section of @VICE !! Very grateful and beyond excited to get at it."




					www.mediaite.com


----------



## timbuck (Jul 19, 2020)

Is a fox business article acceptable journalism?  Google “covid kids camp” and several articles from several news outlets come up.








						Coronavirus forces summer camps across America to close
					

Summer camps throughout the country have canceled sessions or closed because of COVID-19 outbreaks.




					www.google.com


----------



## Futbol2dmaxxx (Jul 19, 2020)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Good Ol Liverpool had soccer camps all week in OC. Always at the forefront of figuring out how to keep the money flowing.


Well they advertise almost everyday , now imagine if they don’t bring in that $$$$ they would fold. Looks like there vamos don’t require coaches to wear mask  ....


----------



## Futbol2dmaxxx (Jul 19, 2020)

keeprunning said:


> I believe clubs all over LA and SD never stopped training camps. Just OC. Can someone in LA of SD confirm this?


I can confirm that *LA camps.


----------



## espola (Jul 19, 2020)

chiefs said:


> This is total fake news.  Gullible people don’t research authors of articles.  Stop posting crap here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Marked for future reference.


----------



## espola (Jul 19, 2020)

chiefs said:


> This is total fake news.  Gullible people don’t research authors of articles.  Stop posting crap here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The "total fake news" included links to a dozen or so news reports from various news sources scattered around the country.  Were they total fake also?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 20, 2020)

There is a difference betwwen fake and unwelcome.

I also wanted to believe that kids don’t spread covid.  Looks like it is les true than we’d like it to be.


----------



## chiefs (Jul 20, 2020)

dad4 said:


> There is a difference betwwen fake and unwelcome.
> 
> I also wanted to believe that kids don’t spread covid.  Looks like it is les true than we’d like it to be.











						Lockdown 'could kill 200,000 people' with hospital delays & recession
					

AN official government report warned more than 200,000 could die from the impact of the coronavirus lockdown as a result of hospital delays and a severe economic downturn. In the report, published …




					www.google.com
				




Lockdown kills people and it might be more. There’s two sides that need to be accurately told. Kids will be much more effected by lockdown than the virus. No youth sports is plain dumb and almost criminal.


----------



## espola (Jul 20, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Lockdown 'could kill 200,000 people' with hospital delays & recession
> 
> 
> AN official government report warned more than 200,000 could die from the impact of the coronavirus lockdown as a result of hospital delays and a severe economic downturn. In the report, published …
> ...


The quoted article is from an English news source discussing the situation in UK.  It states that lockdown may cause 200,000 deaths there due to various causes, and also states that the lockdown there saved 500,000 lives.

Don't you read what you post?


----------



## Futbol30 (Jul 20, 2020)

keeprunning said:


> I believe clubs all over LA and SD never stopped training camps. Just OC. Can someone in LA of SD confirm this?


Most LA Clubs ceased all training except zoom. Most San Bernardino county clubs did as well. (zoom only)


----------



## chiefs (Jul 20, 2020)

espola said:


> The quoted article is from an English news source discussing the situation in UK.  It states that lockdown may cause 200,000 deaths there due to various causes, and also states that the lockdown there saved 500,000 lives.
> 
> Don't you read what you post?


Media doesn’t report kids deaths by lockdown.  You can extrapolate America deaths caused by lockdown Conditions. Hint  It will be much higher than U.K. and kids will more likely die over a lockdown than the China virus.


----------



## messy (Jul 20, 2020)

chiefs said:


> This is total fake news.  Gullible people don’t research authors of articles.  Stop posting crap here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You just got owned, "chief." But you're  too stupid to recognize how stupid you are.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 20, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Kids will be much more effected by lockdown than the virus. No youth sports is plain dumb and almost criminal.


It's not as simple as slogans.

DD is miserable because she cant play.  She's also super close to her grandmother, who is 78 and has multiple pre-existing conditions.  She'd also be miserable if grandma were on a ventilator.

That's the conflict.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

I know a few kids and dads who are holding out hope soccer will come back.  After my dd run in 2017 for the natty, she stopped training 4 days a week, every week after the first year of GDA.  Some of her Friends kept that rigorous training schedule up until Corona.   i know many of these girls were deeply committed to achieving the 4.5 and 1400 SAT, plus soccer four days a week and now you have none of that and no school this fall to boot.  Some kids were getting ready for football.  Tough on some kids and freedom for others.  For my dd, she has freedom unlike any time in her life and she is stoked and making the most of all this.  The adults are going to have to answer for all this later.  Were way down the rabbit hole and all that stuff.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 20, 2020)

dad4 said:


> It's not as simple as slogans.
> 
> DD is miserable because she cant play.  She's also super close to her grandmother, who is 78 and has multiple pre-existing conditions.  She'd also be miserable if grandma were on a ventilator.
> 
> That's the conflict.


I think the financial pressure is making folks irrational.  My kid is focusing on board sports until we return.  We are having a blast at the skatepark Mon- Fri and surfing on the weekends.  And hopefully we can do some snowboarding this upcoming winter.

It’s time to make lemonade out of the COVID lemons folks.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I think the financial pressure is making folks irrational.  My kid is focusing on board sports until we return.  We are having a blast at the skatepark Mon- Fri and *surfing on the weekends*.  And hopefully we can do some snowboarding this upcoming winter.
> 
> It’s time to make lemonade out of the COVID lemons folks.


Really?  I thought my dd and I were going to give your family some surf lessons when your down in the OC?  Nocal is cold too.  What beach?  I'm a little jealous but I'm glad she's learning other things to do besides soccer.  My dd went on a 6 mile endurance hike with some friends and kicked ass yesterday. A couple stud dudes told my dd and her friend that they couldn't hang and handle the workout and would turn around and go back.  I met up with guys afterwards and they told me they have never seen a girl hang like my dd did.  I got goose bumps like when she scores a game winner in soccer.  It was cool


----------



## pokergod (Jul 20, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Lockdown 'could kill 200,000 people' with hospital delays & recession
> 
> 
> AN official government report warned more than 200,000 could die from the impact of the coronavirus lockdown as a result of hospital delays and a severe economic downturn. In the report, published …
> ...


and another thread is ruined.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Really?  I thought my dd and I were going to give your family some surf lessons when your down in the OC?  Nocal is cold too.  What beach?  I'm a little jealous but I'm glad she's learning other things to do besides soccer.  My dd went on a 6 mile endurance hike with some friends and kicked ass yesterday. A couple stud dudes told my dd and her friend that they couldn't hang and handle the workout and would turn around and go back.  I met up with guys afterwards and they told me they have never seen a girl hang like my dd did.  I got goose bumps like when she scores a game winner in soccer.  It was cool


Well, we’ve been focused on the skate park and she’s picking it up fast.  Yesterday she came over to the bench that I was sitting on and said “dad, that dude keeps snaking me.”  I’m still trying to figure what she meant but I think she‘s picking up on skater slang.

We haven’t started surfing yet.  I’m thinking Linda Mar in Pacifa.  I thought my buddy was going to give us lessons but he doesn’t want to lose “cool points” at the beach with me.  I guess its not cool to surf with a 5mm wetsuit, hood, gloves, booties, and heated rash guard.

I may have to wait until I see you for the lessons.  Is my surf gear that lame or is my buddy being a diva?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Well, we’ve been focused on the skate park and she’s picking it up fast.  Yesterday she came over to the bench that I was sitting on and said “dad, that dude keeps snaking me.”  I’m still trying to figure what she meant but I think she‘s picking up on skater slang.
> 
> We haven’t started surfing yet.  I’m thinking Linda Mar in Pacifa.  I thought my buddy was going to give us lessons but he doesn’t want to lose “cool points” at the beach with me.  I guess its not cool to surf with a 5mm wetsuit, hood, gloves, booties, and heated rash guard.
> 
> I may have to wait until I see you for the lessons. * Is my surf gear that lame or is my buddy being a diva?*


No, warm is key.  "Don;t hop me" is what I said


----------



## notintheface (Jul 20, 2020)

dad4 said:


> DD is miserable because she cant play.  She's also super close to her grandmother, who is 78 and has multiple pre-existing conditions.  She'd also be miserable if grandma were on a ventilator.


The thought occurred to me that this is really the first real, meaningful shared sacrifice that the US -- and really the world -- has gone through since WW2. Everyone does their part, keep calm and carry on, Rosie-the-Riveter kind of thing, only it's the entire planet vs. the virus. It sounds silly but it's worth talking with your kid about playing their part in this truly global battle. (It didn't make my kid feel much better but at least they understand the significance)


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 20, 2020)

Where there’s a will there’s a way. Blues are not training They’ve stopped for a couple weeks but it’s not stopping my daughter from training, LA Galaxy has camps every week. They own their fields and have very safe social distancing guidelines. That’s where my daughter is this week. We’ve been fortunate to find some sort of training every week since March and if all else fails what they gonna say to me when I show up at the park by myself with her. Ohh we are going to catch covid like that?  Governor Nazi Newsom can kiss my ass. He can’t tell us what to do. California is a shit hole state.


----------



## espola (Jul 20, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Where there’s a will there’s a way. Blues are not training They’ve stopped for a couple weeks but it’s not stopping my daughter from training, LA Galaxy has camps every week. They own their fields and have very safe social distancing guidelines. That’s where my daughter is this week. We’ve been fortunate to find some sort of training every week since March and if all else fails what they gonna say to me when I show up at the park by myself with her.


...you were doing so well, and then ---



> Ohh we are going to catch covid like that?  Governor Nazi Newsom can kiss my ass. He can’t tell us what to do. California is a shit hole state.


Never mind.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 20, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Where there’s a will there’s a way. Blues are not training They’ve stopped for a couple weeks but it’s not stopping my daughter from training, LA Galaxy has camps every week. They own their fields and have very safe social distancing guidelines. That’s where my daughter is this week. We’ve been fortunate to find some sort of training every week since March and if all else fails what they gonna say to me when I show up at the park by myself with her. Ohh we are going to catch covid like that?  Governor Nazi Newsom can kiss my ass. He can’t tell us what to do. California is a shit hole state.


Covid sucks.  Good luck to your daughter.   Hope she can find ways to be happy until things open up again. 

Also have a 2010 here.  Tough age for no playdates.


----------



## Chalklines (Jul 20, 2020)

What's the deal with these organized scrimmage games in LA? Is that Galaxy hosting "camps"?


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 20, 2020)

espola said:


> ...you were doing so well, and then ---
> 
> 
> 
> Never mind.


ahh you can tell I don’t like the way our governor is handling things. I’m not happy with him. It’s quite frustrating living in CA right now. I can understand them shutting down youth sports and club practice. That’s out of my hands. But my point is that he can’t stop my daughter and I from training in an empty park all to ourselves. That is ridiculous. That’s all I have to say.


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 20, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> What's the deal with these organized scrimmage games in LA? Is that Galaxy hosting "camps"?


there are parents organizing games on their own account. But LA Galaxy is having camps in their private fields. We were there today and I was quite impressed with their social distancing protocols. Very safe.


----------



## jpeter (Jul 20, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> What's the deal with these organized scrimmage games in LA? Is that Galaxy hosting "camps"?


Galaxy is/has been doing youth camps in Glendale, Diginity, and other places in LA. 

This is not youth sports teams under camp guidance, rather just "camps" that don't include youth teams just individuals.

LAUSD is back to school in two weeks so camps end aroung August 10th or so either way.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> there are parents organizing games on their own account. But LA Galaxy is having camps in their private fields. We were there today and I was quite impressed with their social distancing protocols. Very safe.


Welcome back Luis.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 20, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Where there’s a will there’s a way. Blues are not training They’ve stopped for a couple weeks but it’s not stopping my daughter from training, LA Galaxy has camps every week. They own their fields and have very safe social distancing guidelines. That’s where my daughter is this week. We’ve been fortunate to find some sort of training every week since March and if all else fails what they gonna say to me when I show up at the park by myself with her. Ohh we are going to catch covid like that?  Governor Nazi Newsom can kiss my ass. He can’t tell us what to do. California is a shit hole state.


Then leave, please, please, please if that is what you believe.


----------



## chiefs (Jul 20, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Then leave, please, please, please if that is what you believe.


That’s what we’re trying to do to Marxist, please leave.  I actually offered to pay for several one way tickets to Venezuela.  Please accept.


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 20, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Then leave, please, please, please if that is what you believe.


thinking about Texas a lot lately. California will fall so behind in soccer. Mark my words


----------



## watfly (Jul 20, 2020)

GT45 said:


> These clubs (WCFC and Slammers) are putting themselves at significant legal liability. The Governors order covers the entire state.
> 
> I read an article about a 21 year old who ignored his mom's advice on going out. He went out with friends, caught the virus, gave it to his entire family, dad is in the hospital, and was put on a ventilator. WCFC posting their intentions to think outside the box to outmaneuver the governor is a lawyers dream. Idiots.


While I can't really disagree with anything you said, I think that any parents that drive their kids to this practice and then sue because their kid got Covid are even bigger idiots.  You assume that risk when you allow your child to attend that practice.  Unfortunately, our legal system eliminates any need for individual accountability...it's always someone else's fault.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> thinking about Texas a lot lately. California will fall so behind in soccer. Mark my words


And?


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Covid sucks.  Good luck to your daughter.   Hope she can find ways to be happy until things open up again.
> 
> Also have a 2010 here.  Tough age for no playdates.


Definitely different from a 2010 to a 2004.  At 10 yrs. old I could probably get my dd's on board to do anything I suggested.  At 16, quite a different story.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Definitely different from a 2010 to a 2004.  At 10 yrs. old I could probably get my dd's on board to do anything I suggested.  At 16, quite a different story.


You can say that again.  Oh sweet 16, what a year


----------



## SoccerFan6 (Jul 20, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> thinking about Texas a lot lately. California will fall so behind in soccer. Mark my words


This board is more exciting with Luis posting.  Thanks for coming back - we can all use a little entertainment in out lives here.  And, I disagree... I don't see a few months extra practice (maybe?) for those in Texas being a gamechanger.  SoCal will always be at or near the top of the youth soccer landscape.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 20, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> What's the deal with these organized scrimmage games in LA? Is that Galaxy hosting "camps"?


Just to clarify, it is LA Galaxy the MLS club hosting these camps.


----------



## notintheface (Jul 20, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> thinking about Texas a lot lately. California will fall so behind in soccer. Mark my words


I don't understand this statement at all. Achievement isn't a zero sum game; Texas players getting better doesn't mean that all of a sudden there aren't any good kids from California. The USA's number one player is from Pennsylvania-- are you going to move there?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

notintheface said:


> I don't understand this statement at all. Achievement isn't a zero sum game; Texas players getting better doesn't mean that all of a sudden there aren't any good kids from California. The USA's number one player is from Pennsylvania-- are you going to move there?


I think I'm with Luis on this one.  So many people are leaving California and moving to Texas and their taking their goats with them and that will make them top of the food chain.  They already have some of the best players and now with others and possibly #2, Texas will be #1.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I think I'm with Luis on this one.  So many people are leaving California and moving to Texas and their taking their goats with them and that will make them top of the food chain.  They already have some of the best players and now with others and possibly #2, Texas will be #1.


For real?  You know several people moving out of state, into an area in the middle of an outbreak, just to play ball?


----------



## notintheface (Jul 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I think I'm with Luis on this one.  So many people are leaving California and moving to Texas and their taking their goats with them and that will make them top of the food chain.  They already have some of the best players and now with others and possibly #2, Texas will be #1.


Number one in what exactly? Population, maybe, but there's a long way to go. In overall talent pool, again, achievement is not a zero sum game. Location means nothing. Should parents take their seven-year-old kids to Rosario Argentina? This whole line of "all these people are moving and therefore the talent pool will be gone" makes no sense, especially in a country that hasn't fully embraced the sport to its fullest training and athletic potential.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

dad4 said:


> For real?  You know several people moving out of state, into an area in the middle of an outbreak, just to play ball?


No, no one would one move out of Cali to just go play ball.  Their leaving to get their kids in a school and not have so much drama and have some sports and not have so many spies watching their every move.  Woobie's in Dallas right now and he's from there.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Number one in what exactly? Population, maybe, but there's a long way to go. In overall talent pool, again, achievement is not a zero sum game. Location means nothing. Should parents take their seven-year-old kids to Rosario Argentina? This whole line of "all these people are moving and therefore the talent pool will be gone" makes no sense, especially in a country that hasn't fully embraced the sport to its fullest training and athletic potential.


Have you seen #2 play?  She's the real deal and has dreams and goals.  Texas does things right.  I love that place.  I'm in doors anyways now a days and the beach is a zoo so maybe me wife and I will settle their some day too.  Her grandma lives in San Antonio,


----------



## MacDre (Jul 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> No, no one would one move out of Cali to just go play ball.  Their leaving to get their kids in a school and not have so much drama and have some sports and not have so many spies watching their every move.  Woobie's in Dallas right now and he's from there.


Texas?


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 20, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> thinking about Texas a lot lately. California will fall so behind in soccer. Mark my words


Texans play a very physical, rugby style soccer, if that is what you want, go for it. You can also try, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Georgia.  Florida would be good for you too, they play a better style of soccer than Texas.


----------



## chiefs (Jul 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I think I'm with Luis on this one.  So many people are leaving California and moving to Texas and their taking their goats with them and that will make them top of the food chain.  They already have some of the best players and now with others and possibly #2, Texas will be #1.


I know one of the top RE Brokers in the nation.  He said city of LA has had the biggest migration of people he has seen in the last 45 years including businesses.  Moving out of the city to other counties, and out of state.


----------



## SoccerGuru (Jul 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I think I'm with Luis on this one.  So many people are leaving California and moving to Texas and their taking their goats with them and that will make them top of the food chain.  They already have some of the best players and now with others and possibly #2, Texas will be #1.


Luis, don’t know you but if this guy is agreeing with you......you might want to rethink it.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 20, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Then leave, please, please, please if that is what you believe.


You are part of the problem, go back to whatever shit hole you came from.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 20, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Texas?


That's twice you've posted links to real music.  You feeling ok?


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 20, 2020)

I was exaggerating about Texas but man every time I look at my IG and see all these teams playing I get sad. They have 5 times the covid infection rate and they are playing on like the cowboys that they are over there. I haven’t heard 1 story of covid19 and kids ending up in hospitals over there. Especially athletes that are healthy. I was so excited in the middle of June and once the mask wars started it all went downhill here in CA. A true smack in the face from our greasy Governor Newsom. There is no way we are having tournaments in August. We couldn’t get past the 6ft separation practices cause the cowboys here did not wanna to put on their masks. I hate the masks as well but for the sake of club soccer. I’d wear one all day.


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 20, 2020)

Concerns arise as some receive positive COVID-19 results but never got tested
		


I have a friend who tested positive for covid. But only after making an appointment and never showing up for the test. 5 days later he gets an email saying he tested positive for covid. After hearing this stuff, I’m sitting here scratching my head not knowing what to make of this but realizing that we are truly living in the twilight zone.


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 20, 2020)




----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> You are part of the problem, go back to whatever shit hole you came from.


He came from Texas.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> View attachment 8210


You’re about 2 months late, we already covered all of this. I won. Just ask Outlaw, Sheriff Joe, MicPapa, Desert Hound, Watfly, Mars.  Sorry I may have missed a few.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Have you seen #2 play?  She's the real deal and has dreams and goals.  Texas does things right.  I love that place.  I'm in doors anyways now a days and the beach is a zoo so maybe me wife and I will settle their some day too.  Her grandma lives in San Antonio,


Well as long as your still here EJ, Cali is #1.


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> You’re about 2 months late, we already covered all of this. I won. Just ask Outlaw, Sheriff Joe, MicPapa, Desert Hound, Watfly, Mars.  Sorry I may have missed a few.


lots of strange things going on.And that’s why I don’t trust our governor or mayor anymore. I got a ton of stuff on them that just does not  add up and why Texas keeps looking better and better every day.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> lots of strange things going on.And that’s why I don’t trust our governor or mayor anymore. I got a ton of stuff on them that just does not  add up and why Texas keeps looking better and better every day.


We’re all suffering, but who knows what’s going to go down in Texas with all their numbers rising.


----------



## Kante (Jul 20, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Well, we’ve been focused on the skate park and she’s picking it up fast.  Yesterday she came over to the bench that I was sitting on and said “dad, that dude keeps snaking me.”  I’m still trying to figure what she meant but I think she‘s picking up on skater slang.
> 
> We haven’t started surfing yet.  I’m thinking Linda Mar in Pacifa.  I thought my buddy was going to give us lessons but he doesn’t want to lose “cool points” at the beach with me.  I guess its not cool to surf with a 5mm wetsuit, hood, gloves, booties, and heated rash guard.
> 
> I may have to wait until I see you for the lessons.  Is my surf gear that lame or is my buddy being a diva?


Can't tell if you're being serious (going for the whole Eskimo waddle if serious...), but Lindamar's running right now at mid to high 50's, so 4/3 + booties max. To be fair, hot chocolate in a thermos waiting in the truck is probably warranted. Btw, the south end of of the bay is best to learn. Generally slighter better shape. South of the Taco Bell.


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Welcome back Luis.


hey big guy how are you doing? It’s been A while.


Here listening to the song needles by System of a Down. A song written 20 years ago and it describes 2020 to the tea. These guys were ahead of their time.

“I'm just sitting in my room
I'm just sitting in my room
With a needle in my hand
Just waiting for the tomb
Of some old dying man
Sitting in my room
With a needle in my hand
Just waiting for the tomb
Of some old dying man?
Cause you
My tapeworm tells me what to do
You My tapeworm tells me where to go
Pull the tapeworm out of your ass, hey”


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> We’re all suffering, but who knows what’s going to go down in Texas with all their numbers rising.


I believe wearing a mask and social distancing helps reduce R0, but, alone, it's won't put it under 1. Get enough people with immunity and then you have a shot with mask and distancing. Now isn't a great time in TX, AZ or FL. However, it looks like AZ might be turning the corner. Get enough people with immunity due to exposure and a mask and social distancing can be enough. I wouldn't be surprised to see AZ look pretty good come September and then through the fall. I haven't followed the trends in TX and FL so I can't tell where they are in the curve, but it seems like they aren't far behind AZ. The places I worry about in the fall are those that haven't had much exposure yet.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 21, 2020)

Justafan said:


> He came from Texas.


Must be south Texas.
You people fuck up everything.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 21, 2020)

Justafan said:


> You’re about 2 months late, we already covered all of this. I won. Just ask Outlaw, Sheriff Joe, MicPapa, Desert Hound, Watfly, Mars.  Sorry I may have missed a few.


What did you win?


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 21, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Concerns arise as some receive positive COVID-19 results but never got tested
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did your friend also blow up a gas station when using his cell phone while pumping gas?

"As Florida reported the largest single-day increase in positive coronavirus cases anywhere in the United States since the beginning of the pandemic, social media began buzzing with people who claim they left a coronavirus test site because of a long line, but they still received a positive test result."

While this scenario sounds scary, there is no proof to back it up."









						‘That scenario is nonsense.' No proof exists for rumors about positive COVID results with no actual tests
					

Rumors abound about people who claiming they left COVID test sites because of long lines and then received positive test results. But labs are saying this is highly unlikely.




					www.sun-sentinel.com


----------



## Footy30 (Jul 21, 2020)

Getting back to the OP.... did I miss something?? Did the state put out guidelines for youth sports in the last day or so?? These "camps" (outside of SD) were specifically stated to not include youth team sports were they not? 

**** No need to bash Newsom or give me any political BS on anything it's just a legitimate question ***
Thanks


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 21, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> Getting back to the OP.... did I miss something?? Did the state put out guidelines for youth sports in the last day or so?? These "camps" (outside of SD) were specifically stated to not include youth team sports were they not?
> 
> **** No need to bash Newsom or give me any political BS on anything it's just a legitimate question ***
> Thanks


I'm so confused.  Some are playing soccer and some are following the rules.  My family will follow the rules from the Federal Government, State, County and City.


----------



## Woobie06 (Jul 21, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Then leave, please, please, please if that is what you believe.


Your giving the same weak sauce comments on this thread too....good to know.  You can still pick me up at the airport and take my bags when we get back.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 21, 2020)

dad4 said:


> That's twice you've posted links to real music.  You feeling ok?


My behavior has been erratic.  I’m gonna get tested for COVID today.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 21, 2020)

Justafan said:


> You’re about 2 months late, we already covered all of this. I won. Just ask Outlaw, Sheriff Joe, MicPapa, Desert Hound, Watfly, Mars.  Sorry I may have missed a few.


You keep telling yourself you won.  You're like the guy that gets knocked out in a bar fight, wakes up after everyone else is gone and tells his co-workers he whipped some ass over the weekend.  Fucking moron.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 21, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> Getting back to the OP.... did I miss something?? Did the state put out guidelines for youth sports in the last day or so?? These "camps" (outside of SD) were specifically stated to not include youth team sports were they not?
> 
> **** No need to bash Newsom or give me any political BS on anything it's just a legitimate question ***
> Thanks


Not that I am aware of.  I find it hard to believe that parents are willing to put their families health at risk for soccer.  Maybe it’s the clubs or folks that profit from soccer that are promoting this foolishness.

My kids club has a financial incentive to keep my kid safe because they are focused on developing her to maximize her potential as opposed to collecting fees.  I suspect my kid will be one of the first youth players that resume practice in a legitimate fashion and that has not happened yet.  Nor do I expect it to happen anytime soon.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 21, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Not that I am aware of.  I find it hard to believe that parents are willing to put their families health at risk for soccer.  Maybe it’s the clubs or folks that profit from soccer that are promoting this foolishness.
> 
> My kids club has a financial incentive to keep my kid safe because they are focused on developing her to maximize her potential as opposed to collecting fees.  I suspect my kid will be one of the first youth players that resume practice in a legitimate fashion and that has not happened yet.  Nor do I expect it to happen anytime soon.


Families are at risk everyday.  I've yet to see data that supports a virus that's anymore dangerous to kids than crossing the street in front of their schools.  Do you?  And whatever that risk may be, is it more or less destructive than the alternative?  The virus isn't going away.  How long do we shelter in place while the economy and education die a slow death?


----------



## Footy30 (Jul 21, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Not that I am aware of.  I find it hard to believe that parents are willing to put their families health at risk for soccer.  Maybe it’s the clubs or folks that profit from soccer that are promoting this foolishness.
> 
> My kids club has a financial incentive to keep my kid safe because they are focused on developing her to maximize her potential as opposed to collecting fees.  I suspect my kid will be one of the first youth players that resume practice in a legitimate fashion and that has not happened yet.  Nor do I expect it to happen anytime soon.


@MacDre Agreed....  I don't get it...
@The Outlaw regarding your comment... I understand where you're coming from, I think what concerns me is that these clubs and families might screw it up for the rest of the clubs following the rules in the end. (regarding when we are officially "allowed" to return to practice)


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 21, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Families are at risk everyday.  I've yet to see data that supports a virus that's anymore dangerous to kids than crossing the street in front of their schools.  Do you?  And whatever that risk may be, is it more or less destructive than the alternative?  The virus isn't going away.  How long do we shelter in place while the economy and education die a slow death?


It all depends. If T looses in Nov, we will be back in no time. If he wins, we will be sheltering in place for another 4 years


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 21, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> @MacDre Agreed....  I don't get it...
> @The Outlaw regarding your comment... I understand where you're coming from, I think what concerns me is that these clubs and families might screw it up for the rest of the clubs following the rules in the end. (regarding when we are officially "allowed" to return to practice)


Well, you're kind of saying what I'm trying to say.  No matter what we do, there will be people that screw it up.  Whether it's on a beach... on a rioting run or on a soccer field.  I don't think there's any point in trying to mass quarantine because all you'll do is delay the inevitable.  More and more I'm starting to warm to the idea of Covid parties.  Come what may.  I think there's an argument to be had there.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 21, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> It all depends. If T looses in Nov, we will be back in no time. If he wins, we will be sheltering in place for another 4 years


I don’t think the whole thing is a fake.  Our government can’t build a bridge in less than 8 years.  And you think they managed to fake an international virus pandemic?  

We may be hitting a downward trend in cases, though.  AZ seems to have peaked.  FL and GA may be peaking as well.  Hope it is true more broadly.

My guess is that a 20% infection rate + masks + distancing is enough to make the numbers decline.  The more consistent we are about masks and distance, the lower that percentage gets.


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 21, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I don’t think the whole thing is a fake.  Our government can’t build a bridge in less than 8 years.  And you think they managed to fake an international virus pandemic?
> 
> We may be hitting a downward trend in cases, though.  AZ seems to have peaked.  FL and GA may be peaking as well.  Hope it is true more broadly.
> 
> My guess is that a 20% infection rate + masks + distancing is enough to make the numbers decline.  The more consistent we are about masks and distance, the lower that percentage gets.


by no means I think it's fake. However I do believe, it's blown out of proportions a lot.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 21, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Families are at risk everyday.  I've yet to see data that supports a virus that's anymore dangerous to kids than crossing the street in front of their schools.  Do you?  And whatever that risk may be, is it more or less destructive than the alternative?  The virus isn't going away.  How long do we shelter in place while the economy and education die a slow death?


All good questions that I don’t have a good answer to.  I think all of the options suck so it becomes a matter of choosing the lesser of the evils.  The loss of life is permanent.  A lost business can be rebuilt.  I’d rather chance loosing businesses than lives because it’s the lesser of the two evils.


----------



## watfly (Jul 21, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> What did you win?


Gold medal in mental gymnastics.  Actually I'd only give Justafan a bronze, because on occasion he doesn't seem to be afraid of an opinion that is different from his.  He also seems capable of debate while avoiding name calling for the most part.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 21, 2020)

MacDre said:


> All good questions that I don’t have a good answer to.  I think all of the options suck so it becomes a matter of choosing the lesser of the evils.  The loss of life is permanent.  A lost business can be rebuilt.  I’d rather chance loosing businesses than lives because it’s the lesser of the two evils.


A business can be rebuilt, Dre, but that's a livelihood that isn't easily rebuilt.  What do people do, in the interim?  There's been 1 "stimulus" payment since this began.  Yet again they're "thinking... pondering... considering... taking a look at..."  And if they do come up with another $1,200, how long will that last?  Unemployment checks are taking 3-4 months and some still have not been paid.  What are those people supposed to do?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 21, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Families are at risk everyday.  I've yet to see data that supports a virus that's anymore dangerous to kids than crossing the street in front of their schools.  Do you?  And whatever that risk may be, is it more or less destructive than the alternative?  The virus isn't going away.  How long do we shelter in place while the economy and education die a slow death?


You’re asking the wrong question when you ask whether the virus is dangerous to kids.  The question is the degree to which a kid gathering is dangerous to grown ups.  

How long and severely we shelter is a valid question.   

I can’t think of a single good argument for not wearing masks, though.  The anti-mask folks are just making it worse for all of us.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 21, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You’re asking the wrong question when you ask whether the virus is dangerous to kids.  The question is the degree to which a kid gathering is dangerous to grown ups.
> 
> How long and severely we shelter is a valid question.
> 
> I can’t think of a single good argument for not wearing masks, though.  The anti-mask folks are just making it worse for all of us.


I can't either... but everywhere I go, I see people not wearing them.  That's never going to change.  Even places that require them will not enforce that rule.  I see people removing them in stores... at the gym... restaurants.  So if you're going to have people refuse to comply, and you won't do anything to them for it, we're wasting our time playing this game.  We deliberately keep our kids away from elderly people... and that's fairly easy, but unless there's some end game for a vaccine, I think it's time to consider opening up and parents carpe diem.  Any one of us can die tomorrow.  Why are we acting like there's some guarantee?


----------



## Fact (Jul 21, 2020)

MacDre said:


> My behavior has been erratic.  I’m gonna get tested for COVID today.


Make sure they also check to see if you have a heart.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 21, 2020)

Fact said:


> Make sure they also check to see if you have a heart.


Dre has a heart.  It's the backbone that's suspect.


----------



## watfly (Jul 21, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You’re asking the wrong question when you ask whether the virus is dangerous to kids.  The question is the degree to which a kid gathering is dangerous to grown ups.


Fair point.  I've not seen any material evidence of serious or fatal spread from children to adults.  There might be some anecdotal evidence out there, IDK.   Those adults that have vulnerable health conditions should already be quarantining from exposure to others.

The American Academy of Pediatrics, the National Academy of Medicine, and many other medical professionals have published their unequivocal opinion that kids need to be back at school, because the other risks of not returning to school are far greater than the Covid risks.  Your mantra has always been are "you an Epidemiologist?".  Well the NY Times surveyed epidemiologists and 70% said that they would have their children return to school this summer or fall. (I'm sure you'll disparage the article because it was from June, but the reality is that the only thing that has changed from then and now are the hotspots).

I'm not saying that every kid should be required to go back to school, all I'm asking for is a choice.   My son's school district announced that parents would have a choice of 100% online, 100% in school (capacity permitting), or 50/50.  Unfortunately, our Governor ignored the science, under pressure from the teacher's union that is pushing a political agenda, and took that choice away.  

At this point I couldn't care less about youth sports, I just want my kids, and other kids who so choose, to be back in school in the fall.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 21, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> A business can be rebuilt, Dre, but that's a livelihood that isn't easily rebuilt.  What do people do, in the interim?  There's been 1 "stimulus" payment since this began.  Yet again they're "thinking... pondering... considering... taking a look at..."  And if they do come up with another $1,200, how long will that last?  Unemployment checks are taking 3-4 months and some still have not been paid.  What are those people supposed to do?


It’s bad out there and unfortunately I think it’s going to get worse before it gets better.  I have moved 2 separate families into my house (my neighbors are pissed) since the beginning of COVID.  I think we are all in for some tough times in the near future.


----------



## SoccerLocker (Jul 21, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I don’t think the whole thing is a fake.  Our government can’t build a bridge in less than 8 years.  And you think they managed to fake an international virus pandemic?
> 
> We may be hitting a downward trend in cases, though.  AZ seems to have peaked.  FL and GA may be peaking as well.  Hope it is true more broadly.
> 
> My guess is that a 20% infection rate + masks + distancing is enough to make the numbers decline.  The more consistent we are about masks and distance, the lower that percentage gets.


You're going to have to accept a ton of deaths to reach a 20% infection rate.  Sweden hasn't managed to reach 10% yet by keeping society pretty wide open:

"Regardless of whether herd immunity is a goal or a side effect of the Swedish strategy, how has it worked out? Not so well, according to the agency’s own test results. The proportion of Swedes carrying antibodies is estimated to be under 10%, thus nowhere near herd immunity. And yet, the Swedish death rate is unnerving. Sweden has a death toll greater than the United States: 556 deaths per million inhabitants, compared with 425, as of July 20.

Sweden also has a death toll more than four and a half times greater than that of the other four Nordic countries combined — more than seven times greater per million inhabitants. For a number of weeks, Sweden has been among the top in the world when it comes to current reported deaths per capita. And despite this, the strategy in essence remains the same."

Sweden hoped herd immunity would curb COVID-19. Don't do what we did. It's not working.

If we can extrapolate to 1,000 per million deaths (roughly 556 * 2) to get to 20% infection in USA, that's 330,000 dead.


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## MacDre (Jul 21, 2020)

watfly said:


> Fair point.  I've not seen any material evidence of serious or fatal spread from children to adults.  There might be some anecdotal evidence out there, IDK.   Those adults that have vulnerable health conditions should already be quarantining from exposure to others.
> 
> The American Academy of Pediatrics, the National Academy of Medicine, and many other medical professionals have published their unequivocal opinion that kids need to be back at school, because the other risks of not returning to school are far greater than the Covid risks.  Your mantra has always been are "you an Epidemiologist?".  Well the NY Times surveyed epidemiologists and 70% said that they would have their children return to school this summer or fall. (I'm sure you'll disparage the article because it was from June, but the reality is that the only thing that has changed from then and now are the hotspots).
> 
> ...


Not overall general arguments but could you give us specific reasons as to why it is important to you that your kids go back to school in the fall?


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## Ellejustus (Jul 21, 2020)

MacDre said:


> It’s bad out there and unfortunately I think it’s going to get worse before it gets better.  I have moved 2 separate families into my house (my neighbors are pissed) since the beginning of COVID.  *I think we are all in for some tough times in the near future*.


I sure hope you're wrong but my wife say's the same thing.  I will always be the the guy that says the glass is half full and will try and keep a smile.  Peace to all the peace makers!!!!


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## MacDre (Jul 21, 2020)

Fact said:


> Make sure they also check to see if you have a heart.


Ouch!  That hurt.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 21, 2020)

SoccerLocker said:


> You're going to have to accept a ton of deaths to reach a 20% infection rate.  Sweden hasn't managed to reach 10% yet by keeping society pretty wide open:
> 
> "Regardless of whether herd immunity is a goal or a side effect of the Swedish strategy, how has it worked out? Not so well, according to the agency’s own test results. The proportion of Swedes carrying antibodies is estimated to be under 10%, thus nowhere near herd immunity. And yet, the Swedish death rate is unnerving. Sweden has a death toll greater than the United States: 556 deaths per million inhabitants, compared with 425, as of July 20.
> 
> ...


Interesting you brought up Sweden... I just saw this but haven't yet read all of it.









						Swedish epidemiology boss says questioned COVID-19 strategy seems to be working
					

Sweden's top epidemiologist said on Tuesday a rapid decline in new critical COVID-19 cases alongside slowing death rates indicated that Sweden's strategy for slowing the epidemic, which has been widely questioned abroad, was working.




					www.reuters.com


----------



## watfly (Jul 21, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Not overall general arguments but could you give us specific reasons as to why it is important to you that your kids go back to school in the fall?


1. My kids want to go back to school
2. In person learning has been proven to be superior to online learning particularly for kids
3. My kids public schools' idea of online learning is assigning homework, not actual teaching
4. Real time feedback is very critical to the learning process.  Substantive feedback is very difficult in an online environment.  In fact one of my daughters teachers told her during online school this past spring, "don't bother me unless it is an emergency"
5. Many teachers (and obviously kids for that matter) don't take online learning seriously
6. My kids have very high educational aspirations and they, as well as my wife and I, believe that online learning will set back their education.  In particular, they will be less challenged by online learning
7. Social interaction, not necessarily with friends, but learning how to work with other kids and exposures to other kids from different backgrounds.  Maybe social problem solving is a better term.

These are the reasons that come off the top of my head, and yes I realize that many of them are interrelated.  Now in the spirit of full disclosure, my kids will do fine with online learning.  They won't thrive, but they will survive.  My bigger concern is for the overall education of everyone's child.  Many families don't have the resources to make online learning even a viable option.  Many kids didn't even bother to, or couldn't, login in to online learning this past spring.   We can't as a community afford to have underprivileged kids fall farther behind.   Online learning will also prevent some parents from returning to work or in the alternative will leave kids unsupervised to possible roam the neighborhood.  In person learning also allows some kids a safe place away from home.  In that regard, educators are a significant reporter of child abuse, but without in-person learning it will be extremely difficult to identify those situations.

We have to think of the bigger picture and take the Covid only goggles off.


----------



## whatithink (Jul 21, 2020)

watfly said:


> Fair point.  I've not seen any material evidence of serious or fatal spread from children to adults.  There might be some anecdotal evidence out there, IDK.   Those adults that have vulnerable health conditions should already be quarantining from exposure to others.
> 
> The American Academy of Pediatrics, the National Academy of Medicine, and many other medical professionals have published their unequivocal opinion that kids need to be back at school, because the other risks of not returning to school are far greater than the Covid risks.  Your mantra has always been are "you an Epidemiologist?".  Well the NY Times surveyed epidemiologists and 70% said that they would have their children return to school this summer or fall. (I'm sure you'll disparage the article because it was from June, but the reality is that the only thing that has changed from then and now are the hotspots).
> 
> ...


I posted this on another thread

From the article

_"The team monitored nearly 65,000 patients for about 10 days after a coronavirus infection was detected.

They found that a total of 11.8 percent of household contacts of these “index patients” had COVID-19 infection. In households with patients between 10 and 19 years old, nearly 19 percent of household contacts had infection."_ 









						Coronavirus transmission higher among older school children, study finds
					

A study out of South Korea found higher rates of COVID-19 transmission among older school-aged children.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## watfly (Jul 21, 2020)

whatithink said:


> I posted this on another thread
> 
> From the article
> 
> ...


I'm well aware that 10-19 age group is more likely to contract and spread Covid relative to 0-10 year olds.  You know who else is aware of that fact? American Academy of Pediatrics, the National Academy of Medicine and many epidemiologists and other medical professionals that still believe kids should be back at school.  Again we can't look at reopening schools through only a Covid lens.


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## dad4 (Jul 21, 2020)

SoccerLocker said:


> You're going to have to accept a ton of deaths to reach a 20% infection rate.  Sweden hasn't managed to reach 10% yet by keeping society pretty wide open:
> 
> "Regardless of whether herd immunity is a goal or a side effect of the Swedish strategy, how has it worked out? Not so well, according to the agency’s own test results. The proportion of Swedes carrying antibodies is estimated to be under 10%, thus nowhere near herd immunity. And yet, the Swedish death rate is unnerving. Sweden has a death toll greater than the United States: 556 deaths per million inhabitants, compared with 425, as of July 20.
> 
> ...


I think the bigger catch is that it all falls apart if we think it’s over and go back to 2019 behavior.  If we do that, 20% is not enough.  

If actual cases are 10X confirmed cases, AZ is already at 20%.  (along with NY, NJ, Louisiana).  That won’t help much if they throw the masks away and open it all up again.  But it may decline the next few weeks if they keep the masks and distance rules.


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## whatithink (Jul 21, 2020)

watfly said:


> I'm well aware that 10-19 age group is more likely to contract and spread Covid relative to 0-10 year olds.  You know who else is aware of that fact? American Academy of Pediatrics, the National Academy of Medicine and many epidemiologists and other medical professionals that still believe kids should be back at school.  Again we can't look at reopening schools through only a Covid lens.


I just posted in reply to your "haven't seen a study" comment. I want my kids back in school and playing soccer for that matter. If the price of getting the economy back on track is that they miss both for a few more months, then I'm ok with that - not my preferred stance though.

If getting kids in school is critical to getting the economy up and running, then I look forward to Congress and the President's next COVID19 give away which will therefore, surely, be crammed full of funds to ensure that schools can be as safe as possible ... for the adults who are critical to making school happen. I also look forward to their plan to get all that spent and implemented in the next few weeks!


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## dad4 (Jul 21, 2020)

watfly said:


> Fair point.  I've not seen any material evidence of serious or fatal spread from children to adults.  There might be some anecdotal evidence out there, IDK.   Those adults that have vulnerable health conditions should already be quarantining from exposure to others.
> 
> The American Academy of Pediatrics, the National Academy of Medicine, and many other medical professionals have published their unequivocal opinion that kids need to be back at school, because the other risks of not returning to school are far greater than the Covid risks.  Your mantra has always been are "you an Epidemiologist?".  Well the NY Times surveyed epidemiologists and 70% said that they would have their children return to school this summer or fall. (I'm sure you'll disparage the article because it was from June, but the reality is that the only thing that has changed from then and now are the hotspots).
> 
> ...


The South Korea study from last week showed teenagers are roughly as contagious as adults.

Before that, I assumed teenagers were significantly lass contagious than 20-39 year olds.


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## Luis Andres (Jul 21, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Not that I am aware of.  I find it hard to believe that parents are willing to put their families health at risk for soccer.  Maybe it’s the clubs or folks that profit from soccer that are promoting this foolishness.
> 
> My kids club has a financial incentive to keep my kid safe because they are focused on developing her to maximize her potential as opposed to collecting fees.  I suspect my kid will be one of the first youth players that resume practice in a legitimate fashion and that has not happened yet.  Nor do I expect it to happen anytime soon.


and I was under the impression that you had a goat. Here everything is closed but the Hispanic boy leagues. And that’s where we are playing. They ain’t gonna stop playing soccer cause of some virus that is not even effecting kids. The kids in Florida, Texas are playing and you ain’t hearing any stories of these kids getting sick & ending up at the hospital. If you ain’t training and or playing this year you will fall behind for sure to the ones that are putting in the extra work. I’m seeing it first hand. It’s not rocket science what you put in you get back. And if you ain’t putting in now you ain’t growing. It’s not about profiting but it’s about not living your life in fear and being brain washed by this socialist government in California.


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## Luis Andres (Jul 21, 2020)

Was just thinking about this  #foodforthought

Orange County population 3 million
Riverside population 2.4 million
San Diego population 1.4 million
La county population 10 million
San Bernardino county 2.1 million

Orange County where the Cali cowboys live, no one wears masks and they seem to ignore 6ft social distancing guidelines, seen it first hand. Shouldn’t they have at least twice the amount of cases than the rest of the top counties given that they have more people living in the county not wearing the masks and not social distancing ? Things don’t add up. Not saying to not wear a mask but just things don’t add up. Cause the rest of these counties wear masks.


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## Luis Andres (Jul 21, 2020)

Here is the reality folks. If governor Newsom all of a sudden morphed into Governor De Santis from Florida and yelled “Let the Games Begin” everyone would be out there social distancing with masks at these games making it work like they are doing in Florida. I’m certain we would have 90% of the youth soccer world back out there in tournaments and parents following the rules and guidelines of course and we would be just fine like they are doing in Texas and Florida . But because the carnival barker tells us that we can’t even go to the park by ourselves, everyone is hiding under a rock and it’s the 10% that are out there still training following masks and social distancing guidelines and staying away from 90% of the brain washed mob that are making progress and getting ahead. Parks are empty and you can now come out from under neath the Newsom rock, but stay away from the cowboys and the sheeple mob and you’ll be doing just fine and making progress in 2020

, w


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## MacDre (Jul 21, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> and I was under the impression that you had a goat. Here everything is closed but the Hispanic boy leagues. And that’s where we are playing. They ain’t gonna stop playing soccer cause of some virus that is not even effecting kids. The kids in Florida, Texas are playing and you ain’t hearing any stories of these kids getting sick & ending up at the hospital. If you ain’t training and or playing this year you will fall behind for sure to the ones that are putting in the extra work. I’m seeing it first hand. It’s not rocket science what you put in you get back. And if you ain’t putting in now you ain’t growing. It’s not about profiting but it’s about not living your life in fear and being brain washed by this socialist government in California.


Cream rises homie.  If you have to practice to the point where you life has no balance, then you’ll never go “platinum.”  One more thing, if you kid is not capable of excelling in multiple sports they really don’t have a chance of playing any sport at a higher level.  Shot out to  the “all American athletes” out there and to hell with these over specialized one-trick-ponies.


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## Luis Andres (Jul 21, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Cream rises homie.  If you have to practice to the point where you life has no balance, then you’ll never go “platinum.”  One more thing, if you kid is not capable of excelling in multiple sports they really don’t have a chance of playing any sport at a higher level.  Shot out to  the “all American athletes” out there and to hell with these over specialized one-trick-ponies.


who says it’s just about playing one sport. It’s good to play multiple I agree. But soccer is a sport that requires mastery of technicals skills. If you just got speed you might get somewhere in the sport but if you got both you will dominate. Slow feet don’t eat. Gotta train those feet daily and there is always time to do the other things that keeps them sane during these times. No excuse homie.


----------



## notintheface (Jul 21, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Here is the reality folks. If governor Newsom all of a sudden morphed into Governor De Santis from Florida and yelled “Let the Games Begin” everyone would be out there social distancing with masks at these games making it work like they are doing in Florida.


Uh - except Florida is outpacing California in number of cases with a little over half the population. That isn't "making it work".


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## watfly (Jul 21, 2020)

whatithink said:


> If getting kids in school is critical to getting the economy up and running, then I look forward to Congress and the President's next COVID19 give away which will therefore, surely, be crammed full of funds to ensure that schools can be as safe as possible ... for the adults who are critical to making school happen. I also look forward to their plan to get all that spent and implemented in the next few weeks!


I agree 100% for the school funding.  Is the $70 billion offered by the President not sufficient.? If its not, then talk to the leftist legislators that want to incentivize not working or writing checks to illegals.    What I don't want to happen is that we act like opening schools is so complicated.  The CDC has step-by-step guidelines for schools that aren't too onerous and has been out for weeks.  I also don't want the school money to be abused by the unions or schools, there needs to be some accountability, which hasn't happened with the PPP money.

If schools are just now working on their reopening plans that is shameful.  As a matter of note, we've been able to open our youth clubhouses, that serve dozens if not hundreds, with common sense protections without significant cost.  I know it can be done since I've seen it in live action.


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## Luis Andres (Jul 21, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Uh - except Florida is outpacing California in number of cases with a little over half the population. That isn't "making it work".


where are the stories of the healthy soccer community over there ending up in hospitals with covid. No reports of kids or parents. I’m following it closely and they can serve as our guinea pigs.


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## GT45 (Jul 21, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Uh - except Florida is outpacing California in number of cases with a little over half the population. That isn't "making it work".


Yeah not sure how this poster can use Texas and Florida as model examples when they are two of the hardest hit states right now.


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## Chalklines (Jul 21, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> and I was under the impression that you had a goat. Here everything is closed but the Hispanic boy leagues. And that’s where we are playing. They ain’t gonna stop playing soccer cause of some virus that is not even effecting kids. The kids in Florida, Texas are playing and you ain’t hearing any stories of these kids getting sick & ending up at the hospital. If you ain’t training and or playing this year you will fall behind for sure to the ones that are putting in the extra work. I’m seeing it first hand. It’s not rocket science what you put in you get back. And if you ain’t putting in now you ain’t growing. It’s not about profiting but it’s about not living your life in fear and being brain washed by this socialist government in California.


Only problem I see is if anyone playing is still having team practices who's showing up to play. If that's the case it's 100% selfish becuse that entire club runs the risk of shutting down if one of those kids shows up and plays with the virus and passes it on. Honestly as a parent right now I would want to know if any of the girls on my daughter's team was frolicking in LAs Corona hot bed playing a pick up in a Mexican soccer league.


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## notintheface (Jul 21, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> where are the stories of the healthy soccer community over there ending up in hospitals with covid. No reports of kids or parents. I’m following it closely and they can serve as our guinea pigs.


I'll give you a pass since you've been away from the forums, but you're entering into a circular argument.

First you say, "kids aren't getting it and if they do they aren't getting hit hard".

Then anyone else is going to say, "yeah, but you do know how a virus works, right?"

Then you'll say "okay but only keep the potentially hard-hit people home".

Then someone else is going to say "that's what we are doing and people are choosing to stay home".

Then you'll say "okay but now you're being sheeple".

Then the non sequiturs start flying.

Instead, I'll ask one simple question: what would it take for you to change your mind about the potential danger of the virus?


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## Sheriff Joe (Jul 21, 2020)

It will all be over on the second Tuesday in November, one way or another.


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## Luis Andres (Jul 21, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> Only problem I see is if anyone playing is still having team practices who's showing up to play. If that's the case it's 100% selfish becuse that entire club runs the risk of shutting down if one of those kids shows up and plays with the virus and passes it on. Honestly as a parent right now I would want to know if any of the girls on my daughter's team was frolicking in LAs Corona hot bed playing a pick up in a Mexican soccer league.


I should rephrase it to that’s where we will be playing. We haven’t started that league yet as I’m putting together a road team as a back up plan but we have been doing technical trainings that meet social distancing requirements. If all tournaments are cancelled next month and there is no season, which we will know sometime next month then at that point,  we’ll play in the Hispanic league for the rest of the year. I don’t see a way for tournaments to happen with 100’s of people attending unless we can test for covid prior to starting the tournament.


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## MacDre (Jul 21, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> who says it’s just about playing one sport. It’s good to play multiple I agree. But soccer is a sport that requires mastery of technicals skills. If you just got speed you might get somewhere in the sport but if you got both you will dominate. Slow feet don’t eat. Gotta train those feet daily and there is always time to do the other things that keeps them sane during these times. No excuse homie.


Can’t train speed.  You can work by yourself with a ball and a wall.  Playing others sports and learning other movements also helps to reduce injuries.


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## Luis Andres (Jul 21, 2020)

notintheface said:


> I'll give you a pass since you've been away from the forums, but you're entering into a circular argument.
> 
> First you say, "kids aren't getting it and if they do they aren't getting hit hard".
> 
> ...


My proposition to Newsom:
If we protect people that are 65 and over and anyone with underlying conditions from 50-65  range and the rest of this group with n95 masks. Have the 65+ (retired) Quarantine and wait for the vaccine. While the rest of us the healthy population build herd immunity. Covid becomes the flu after removing the population most at risk = Ages 50+ It approaches the flu when we further realize the fact we are not even considering  the undetected cases out there that are not part of the total number of cases discovered greater than 40% asymptomatic. And not considering if you take the additional step to further quarantine obesity (43%) and people with underlying conditions from the 0-49 age group. Then you are dealing with the flu at 0.1% death rate. 30% of the population needs to be in quarantine and more than 1/2 of this group is already retired. We need logical solutions that come with options. We can’t take the communist approach. Of everybody locked down. ‍♂

COVID-19 Data from COVID19 CA GOV site as of 7/16/2020

(Click the bars to see the specific numbers)

Positive Cases Ages 0-17 = 29,945
Deaths ages 0-17 = 0
Percentage of Deaths with Cases = 0%

Positive Cases Ages 18-49 = 213,083
Deaths Ages 18-49 = 477
Percentage of Deaths with Cases = 0.22%
(Mask)

Positive Cases Ages 50-64 = 69,998
Deaths Ages 50-64 = 1,238
Percentage of Deaths with Cases = 1.76%
(Quarantine or n95 mask)

Positive Cases 65 & Older = 42,748
Deaths Ages 65 & Older = 5,568
Percentage of Deaths 65 & Older = 13.02% (Quarantine)

Percentage of Deaths by Ages
0-17 = 0%
18-49 = 7% wear masks
50-64 = 17% wear masks n95 or quarantine
65 & Older = 77% Quarantine

Percentage of CA Population by Ages
0-17 years old = 23% of CA population
18-49 years old = 44% of CA population
50-64 years old = 18% of CA population
65 years & older = 16% of CA population









						COVID-19 Cases Dashboard
					





					public.tableau.com


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## Luis Andres (Jul 21, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Can’t train speed.  You can work by yourself with a ball and a wall.  Playing others sports and learning other movements also helps to reduce injuries.


I don’t disagree with you there. You can’t make someone who is slow fast but you can improve someone who’s fast with training for speed. Playing other sports is a plus to make a well rounded athlete.


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## MacDre (Jul 21, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> I don’t disagree with you there. You can’t make someone who is slow fast but you can improve someone who’s fast with training for speed. Playing other sports is a plus to make a well rounded athlete.


Accordingly, all youth soccer players should forgo the spring soccer season and run track instead.


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## Luis Andres (Jul 21, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Accordingly, all youth soccer players should forgo the spring soccer season and run track instead.


Track seems feasible especially during covid. I’m actually looking for track teams near my area. After watching my daughter hang with a current track star on her soccer team, I’ve convinced her to start track this year. She may not have a shot at the 100m vs the top ones out there but she has potential to run the 400 and the 800. She’s got great soccer speed and I’m really curious to see how her speed fairs against the track star goats out there in 2020


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## timbuck (Jul 21, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> My proposition to Newsom:
> If we protect people that are 65 and over and anyone with underlying conditions from 50-65  range and the rest of this group with n95 masks. Have the 65+ (retired) Quarantine and wait for the vaccine. While the rest of us the healthy population build herd immunity. Covid becomes the flu after removing the population most at risk = Ages 50+ It approaches the flu when we further realize the fact we are not even considering  the undetected cases out there that are not part of the total number of cases discovered greater than 40% asymptomatic. And not considering if you take the additional step to further quarantine obesity (43%) and people with underlying conditions from the 0-49 age group. Then you are dealing with the flu at 0.1% death rate. 30% of the population needs to be in quarantine and more than 1/2 of this group is already retired. We need logical solutions that come with options. We can’t take the communist approach. Of everybody locked down. ‍♂
> 
> COVID-19 Data from COVID19 CA GOV site as of 7/16/2020
> ...


Lot of coaches over 55 out there.  Looks like we need a changing of the guard this year.  Referees too.


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 21, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Lot of coaches over 55 out there.  Looks like we need a changing of the guard this year.  Referees too.


They need to wear the n95 masks and come out coaching like this.

The problem of covid19 stems from the asymptomatic cases from fit and healthy people that can transmit without knowing. That’s where the danger lies. The logical solution is this.


“The reason why the fittest population needs to build herd immunity first is to eliminate them from becoming vectors later that can potentially infect the population at risk if it’s re-introduced back from Quarantine through the phases.” #crux They desperately need the vaccine to come back from quarantine.


----------



## Penalty Kicks Stink (Jul 24, 2020)

Saw an email that Slammers had over 600 kids at their " CAMP" in Newport last weekend.  Training also going on today and this weekend, hope no ones dd gets the virus.  Those parks in Newport are pretty small to social distance on.  Must be a hell of a waiver the parents signed since Cal South and ECNL wont cover them


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 24, 2020)

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> Saw an email that Slammers had over 600 kids at their " CAMP" in Newport last weekend.  Training also going on today and this weekend, hope no ones dd gets the virus.  Those parks in Newport are pretty small to social distance on.  Must be a hell of a waiver the parents signed since Cal South and ECNL wont cover them


Lot's of rumor mill going on out there.  I would like to see a club challenge the rules set out by our Governor and maybe this is the way to do it?  I know some don't like that and want everyone to follow the same set of rules the rest of us are obeying.  My buddy lives in HB and their doing a recall down there and not a lot folks wearing a Mask.  We should be all watching for the DMs in HB and all the soccer junkies breaking some rules set out by the health pros.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 24, 2020)

My son's GK trainer has been kicked off now from 2 fields (one in LA County and one in VC county in the last 2 weeks.  My son's field trainer has been kicked off of 3.  When they were shutting him down, I stopped to chat up the parks and rec guy (after putting on a mask).  Guy was wearing a mask in a completely empty field....really insane....told me while normally they just wink and a nod with PT, they have strict instructions now in the 2 counties to shut it down.  Even at the height of the lockdowns DYS had his once weekly goalkeeper training.  This is so much worse for him than the initial lockdown....he's very close right now to cracking (a lot of regression in his behavior....moderate signs of depression).  So glad we are getting out (older will have a pool to lap practice).  Assuming I get medical clearance this Monday, we'll be in the great state of Utah before the end of the week.


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 24, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> My son's GK trainer has been kicked off now from 2 fields (one in LA County and one in VC county in the last 2 weeks.  My son's field trainer has been kicked off of 3.  When they were shutting him down, I stopped to chat up the parks and rec guy (after putting on a mask).  Guy was wearing a mask in a completely empty field....really insane....told me while normally they just wink and a nod with PT, they have strict instructions now in the 2 counties to shut it down.  Even at the height of the lockdowns DYS had his once weekly goalkeeper training.  This is so much worse for him than the initial lockdown....he's very close right now to cracking (a lot of regression in his behavior....moderate signs of depression).  So glad we are getting out (older will have a pool to lap practice).  Assuming I get medical clearance this Monday, we'll be in the great state of Utah before the end of the week.


insane, guy wearing a mask in a complete empty field. Just like the dude I saw the other day driving with a mask inside his car by himself with the windows up and ac on. ‍


----------



## Socal United (Jul 24, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> It will all be over on the second Tuesday in November, one way or another.


I wish that was true but even you can't honestly believe that.  Brutal political bias aside you know that isn't correct, right?  I need it for my own edification...


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 24, 2020)

Socal United said:


> I wish that was true but even you can't honestly believe that.  Brutal political bias aside you know that isn't correct, right?  I need it for my own edification...


Let’s just say the alarmists will be much more quiet after the election.


----------



## STX (Jul 24, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Uh - except Florida is outpacing California in number of cases with a little over half the population. That isn't "making it work".


We are playing and training normally here in Texas, and have been for months. Tournaments started a few weeks ago and are continuing every weekend. ECNL schedules are out (but not publicly published). Kids are playing, but spectator numbers are severely limited and there are firm rules for players to mask up and socially distance when not active on the pitch. 

Two facts.

One, we are doing a terrible job as a community of slowing the spread of the virus in Texas. 

Two, not a single case of Covid has been transmitted on the soccer field in the past several months while hundreds of teams have been training and scrimmaging together. Zero cases of player to player transmission. Not. A. Single. One.

Outdoor soccer has so far proven to not be a serious risk. There simply isn't the 15+ minutes of continuous close, poorly ventilated contact that the research shows is fueling the contagion.

There are lots of dumb things people are doing here in Texas that are risky and are fueling the spread (bars, church, overnight camps, restaurants, probably schools, etc). But the kids are getting to play soccer because the only reason not to do so is because it might make some Karen feel better about their false opinion that preventing outdoor soccer might be a significant contributor to ending the spread of the virus.

Current status is the parent's field access is severely limited with social distancing and mask restrictions (for game) or simply being confined to their cars (for training or scrimmages) and I don't see that changing soon. Good. It's a small price to pay for the kids getting safely play.


----------



## timbuck (Jul 24, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> My son's GK trainer has been kicked off now from 2 fields (one in LA County and one in VC county in the last 2 weeks.  My son's field trainer has been kicked off of 3.  When they were shutting him down, I stopped to chat up the parks and rec guy (after putting on a mask).  Guy was wearing a mask in a completely empty field....really insane....told me while normally they just wink and a nod with PT, they have strict instructions now in the 2 counties to shut it down.  Even at the height of the lockdowns DYS had his once weekly goalkeeper training.  This is so much worse for him than the initial lockdown....he's very close right now to cracking (a lot of regression in his behavior....moderate signs of depression).  So glad we are getting out (older will have a pool to lap practice).  Assuming I get medical clearance this Monday, we'll be in the great state of Utah before the end of the week.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 24, 2020)

dad4 said:


> The South Korea study from last week showed teenagers are roughly as contagious as adults.
> 
> Before that, I assumed teenagers were significantly lass contagious than 20-39 year olds.


The study they produced also was from schools that followed "strict" protocols. Temperatures taken of every student before stepping on school grounds, then again before entering classroom,  physical distancing in class, masks all day, all staff temperature checked and tested frequently, hand washing several times a day. Fast testing and tracing. Stringent sanitizing of all surfaces in the school. Imagine our schools now and the non compliance of students and lack of self discipline. Sadly the results would not be the same.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 24, 2020)

STX said:


> We are playing and training normally here in Texas, and have been for months. Tournaments started a few weeks ago and are continuing every weekend. ECNL schedules are out (but not publicly published). Kids are playing, but spectator numbers are severely limited and there are firm rules for players to mask up and socially distance when not active on the pitch.
> 
> Two facts.
> 
> ...


?
Question, how frequently are all the players and coaches tested? After each practice, after each scrimmage, or once a week, once every two weeks?  Since children, particularly young children can have covid but be asymptomatic, how do you know they haven't transmitted it to someone in the community or someone in their family who is also asymptomatic, then they pass it on to someone outside the family.  If the players and coaches are tested on a regular basis, who pays for it, the club or the family?  Or is no one being tested?


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 24, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Was just thinking about this  #foodforthought
> 
> Orange County population 3 million
> Riverside population 2.4 million
> ...


Hmmm, interesting, I see a lot of masks being worn in everyday in the OC.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 24, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> where are the stories of the healthy soccer community over there ending up in hospitals with covid. No reports of kids or parents. I’m following it closely and they can serve as our guinea pigs.


You don't have to wind up in the hospital to have the virus and pass it on.  Many, many people are asymptomatic.


----------



## watfly (Jul 24, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> ?
> Question, how frequently are all the players and coaches tested? After each practice, after each scrimmage, or once a week, once every two weeks?  Since children, particularly young children can have covid but be asymptomatic, how do you know they haven't transmitted it to someone in the community or someone in their family who is also asymptomatic, then they pass it on to someone outside the family.  If the players and coaches are tested on a regular basis, who pays for it, the club or the family?  Or is no one being tested?


Those aren't the testing guidelines recommended by the State of California or the CDC even for schools.  In San Diego where youth practices are allowed you can't get a test unless you are showing symptoms or have significant evidence of exposure to a infected individual.  It would be irresponsible of any individual that has contact with others to get a test on a whim without symptoms.  The processing is already overwhelmed as it is and should be saved for those with actual symptoms.  Going on 6 weeks of youth practices in San Diego with no evidence of infection or transmission from these activities.  Your fear is unjustified.


----------



## STX (Jul 24, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> ?
> Question, how frequently are all the players and coaches tested? After each practice, after each scrimmage, or once a week, once every two weeks?  Since children, particularly young children can have covid but be asymptomatic, how do you know they haven't transmitted it to someone in the community or someone in their family who is also asymptomatic, then they pass it on to someone outside the family.  If the players and coaches are tested on a regular basis, who pays for it, the club or the family?  Or is no one being tested?


Nobody is being tested unless there is a suspicion of sickness. But everyone is supposed to do a symptom and temperature check prior to leaving the house for any session and if suspected of any exposure in their life must quarantine.

There have been zero documented, suspected, or rumored player to player transmissions between the thousands of players at the thousands of practices that have happened these past few months in a community that isn't doing a great job of containing the virus.

One team I know of last week had a player who was possibly exposed at a day camp, so the whole team pulled out of a tournament as a precaution. So it isn't being transmitted in the community via contact on an outdoor soccer field.

It looks like schools are wisely going to be closed here with remote learning until at least October at the earliest. Good. That's smart. Indoor continuous contact is what is fueling the spread of Covid.

But as long as people and clubs are responsible and err on the side of caution like that team I just mentioned, and as long as outdoor intermittent contact via the game of soccer remains an extremely unlikely method of transmission, I see no reason why soccer won't continue to be played.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 24, 2020)

watfly said:


> Those aren't the testing guidelines recommended by the State of California or the CDC even for schools.  In San Diego where youth practices are allowed you can't get a test unless you are showing symptoms or have significant evidence of exposure to a infected individual.  It would be irresponsible of any individual that has contact with others to get a test on a whim without symptoms.  The processing is already overwhelmed as it is and should be saved for those with actual symptoms.  Going on 6 weeks of youth practices in San Diego with no evidence of infection or transmission from these activities.  Your fear is unjustified.


Distanced or contact in SD?


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 24, 2020)

STX said:


> It looks like schools are wisely going to be closed here with remote learning until at least October at the earliest. Good. That's smart. Indoor continuous contact is what is fueling the spread of Covid.


Several public schools in the burbs and our private school had plans to move classes outside when weather permitted.  The privates may still be granted waivers under footnote 2.  But right now even those plans are scuttled.


----------



## watfly (Jul 24, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Distanced or contact in SD?


The guidelines are for distanced.


----------



## Footy30 (Jul 24, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> My son's GK trainer has been kicked off now from 2 fields (one in LA County and one in VC county in the last 2 weeks.  My son's field trainer has been kicked off of 3.  When they were shutting him down, I stopped to chat up the parks and rec guy (after putting on a mask).  Guy was wearing a mask in a completely empty field....really insane....told me while normally they just wink and a nod with PT, they have strict instructions now in the 2 counties to shut it down.  Even at the height of the lockdowns DYS had his once weekly goalkeeper training.  This is so much worse for him than the initial lockdown....he's very close right now to cracking (a lot of regression in his behavior....moderate signs of depression).  So glad we are getting out (older will have a pool to lap practice).  Assuming I get medical clearance this Monday, we'll be in the great state of Utah before the end of the week.


Yet OC teams are training out in the open *in the OC*???? I don't get it I really don't...


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 24, 2020)

STX said:


> Nobody is being tested unless there is a suspicion of sickness. But everyone is supposed to do a symptom and temperature check prior to leaving the house for any session and if suspected of any exposure in their life must quarantine.
> 
> There have been zero documented, suspected, or rumored player to player transmissions between the thousands of players at the thousands of practices that have happened these past few months in a community that isn't doing a great job of containing the virus.
> 
> ...


This is good news and, as you state, given the relatively high rate of the virus at this point in Texas, it gives credence to the notion that outdoor sports is not a high risk activity. One question. Are you doing normal trainings or are they modified to ensure social distance?


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 24, 2020)

*








						REBUILD CALIFORNIA
					

Unaffordable housing. Record homelessness. Rising crime. Failing schools. Locked down population while the prisons are emptied. Governor Newsom has failed!




					recallgavin2020.com
				



*
Let’s help bring youth soccer back. Let’s recall Gavin Newsom. He needs to open the parks in CA. Sign...


----------



## STX (Jul 24, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> This is good news and, as you state, given the relatively high rate of the virus at this point in Texas, it gives credence to the notion that outdoor sports is not a high risk activity. One question. Are you doing normal trainings or are they modified to ensure social distance?


When we picked back up in May they were socially distanced sessions. June and July have been normal training sessions and scrimmages (but with common sense restrictions for off-the-pitch social distancing when players are on the bench or getting water or arriving /departing, plus the limitations on any spectators).


----------



## Socal United (Jul 25, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Distanced or contact in SD?


Supposed to be distanced but some clubs with their own facilities are doing things like there was never Covid.  It is a mixed bag in SD.


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## timbuck (Jul 25, 2020)

Socal United said:


> Supposed to be distanced but some clubs with their own facilities are doing things like there was never Covid.  It is a mixed bag in SD.


It’s just a “clinic” in Oceanside.  Maybe they are keeping their distance. 
I like the quote about what to do when “no one is watching”. Like today at their clinic. Nobody is allowed to watch.

Serious question-  if your club is following the rules, would you move to a club like this so your kid could play?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 25, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Serious question-  if your club is following the rules, would you move to a club like this so your kid could play?


I would not, but that probably surprises no one.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 25, 2020)

timbuck said:


> It’s just a “clinic” in Oceanside.  Maybe they are keeping their distance.
> I like the quote about what to do when “no one is watching”. Like today at their clinic. Nobody is allowed to watch.
> 
> Serious question-  if your club is following the rules, would you move to a club like this so your kid could play?oach


The picture on the right is in reference to a new coach at the club.  Do not combine it with something unrelated. The club was highlighting her career and her many accomplishments and this post by her was  to inspire players to give their most even when practicing alone, running or where ever or when ever you train to be the best possible player that you can be. Don't just give 100%, give 110%!  Don't misconstrue the purpose of the post.


----------



## timbuck (Jul 25, 2020)

Of course the 2 pictures aren’t really related. But I thought it was funny/ironic.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 25, 2020)

timbuck said:


> It’s just a “clinic” in Oceanside.  Maybe they are keeping their distance.
> I like the quote about what to do when “no one is watching”. Like today at their clinic. Nobody is allowed to watch.
> 
> Serious question-  if your club is following the rules, would you move to a club like this so your kid could play?


To a club breaking the rules? No. However, I am willing to go to a place where the rules allow it assuming that I deem it safe. I'm guessing places like TX and AZ will reach Cuomo's "Sun on the other side" level of immunity in the next month or so. Assuming that happens, I'd definitely have her play there assuming we are still shut down.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 25, 2020)

STX said:


> Nobody is being tested unless there is a suspicion of sickness. But everyone is supposed to do a symptom and temperature check prior to leaving the house for any session and if suspected of any exposure in their life must quarantine.
> 
> There have been zero documented, suspected, or rumored player to player transmissions between the thousands of players at the thousands of practices that have happened these past few months in a community that isn't doing a great job of containing the virus.
> 
> ...


That's good that no one has had symptoms, just concerned with those who might have it with zero symptoms.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 25, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hate to break it to you, but the Titanic has already crashed and your blaming the 1st officer because you don’t like they way he’s handing out the life rafts.

What happened to the captain?


----------



## Justafan (Jul 25, 2020)

STX said:


> It looks like schools are wisely going to be closed here with remote learning until at least October at the earliest. Good. That's smart. Indoor continuous contact is what is fueling the spread of Covid.


You and I know that it's all about viral exposure over an extended period of time in places (usually inside) with limited air exchange/ventilation. However, have you ever seen the the president's corona task force explain this to the American people? i.e.  https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

I don't thing the average American knows this.  If they did, I think most Americans would voluntarily wear masks in the "danger" zones (i.e. gatherings indoors).  I think this would have gone a long way in limiting the new outbreaks in Fl., Tx., & Az.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 25, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> insane, guy wearing a mask in a complete empty field. Just like the dude I saw the other day driving with a mask inside his car by himself with the windows up and ac on. ‍♂


A guy put on a mask when he approached an anti-vaxxer who completely disregards social distancing ordinances? What’s weird about that? And do you think maybe the guy wearing a mask in the car just forgot to take it off since they really aren’t an imposition and don’t cause people to die of CO2 poisoning?  

What is wrong with all of you? You whine about your kids not being able go to school or practice soccer when you’re the problem.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 25, 2020)

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> Saw an email that Slammers had over 600 kids at their " CAMP" in Newport last weekend.  Training also going on today and this weekend, hope no ones dd gets the virus.  Those parks in Newport are pretty small to social distance on.  Must be a hell of a waiver the parents signed since Cal South and ECNL wont cover them


You couldn't social distance 600 kids on 2 football fields.


----------



## STX (Jul 25, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> That's good that no one has had symptoms, just concerned with those who might have it with zero symptoms.


I was concerned about that, too. But apparently it is really, really hard to spread the virus on a soccer field doing normal soccer activities.

I assume that's because it doesn't satisfy many of the main criteria that are proven to be high risk for delivering a communicable load of the virus (close, continous contact of more than 15 minutes in a poorly ventilated space).

Those same reasons make me assume that while local training and games will continue here in Texas, overnight travel soccer isn't happening soon and nor should it.  It's not that the soccer is any more risky at home or in the road, but it's the other things that accompany a normal soccer night in a team hotel. 

Pretty much all of team travel outside of the games is about extended close indoor contact. That's a big risk for asymptomatic transmission.

ECNL and GA tentative schedules are now released for Texas, and for the near future it looks like all day trips or local games.


----------



## STX (Jul 25, 2020)

STX said:


> I was concerned about that, too. But apparently it is really, really hard to spread the virus on a soccer field doing normal soccer activities.
> 
> I assume that's because it doesn't satisfy many of the main criteria that are proven to be high risk for delivering a communicable load of the virus (close, continous contact of more than 15 minutes in a poorly ventilated space).
> 
> ...


I should have said "mostly" day trips and local games that last sentence. "All" may not quite be true.


----------



## SoccerGuru (Jul 25, 2020)

STX said:


> I was concerned about that, too. But apparently it is really, really hard to spread the virus on a soccer field doing normal soccer activities.
> 
> I assume that's because it doesn't satisfy many of the main criteria that are proven to be high risk for delivering a communicable load of the virus (close, continous contact of more than 15 minutes in a poorly ventilated space).
> 
> ...


Could you share what the schedule looks like as far as dates?


----------



## Footy30 (Jul 25, 2020)

*What is wrong with all of you? You whine about your kids not being able go to school or practice soccer when you’re the problem.*
[/QUOTE]

@EOTL  YES!!! This is exactly right!! I have friends and idiots in my own family who are not listening to the rules, co-mingling with various people every weekend yet are bitching about schools not opening, sports, etc. and  I know some of these family members will be the first ones crying and grabbing their xanax and rosary if they infect their elderly family members whom they interact daily with... did I mention they're idiots???


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 25, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> insane, guy wearing a mask in a complete empty field. Just like the dude I saw the other day driving with a mask inside his car by himself with the windows up and ac on. ‍♂


Nunya


----------



## ginga (Jul 25, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> You couldn't social distance 600 kids on 2 football fields.


people say stupid sh*t and people believe it. smh


----------



## STX (Jul 25, 2020)

SoccerGuru said:


> Could you share what the schedule looks like as far as dates?


Local tournaments and friendlies through August.

First weekend of ECNL and GA games is Sept 5th.

Games most every weekend until early December.

Pause for high school (if high school soccer happens normally this year, in Texas it normally runs from January through early April).

Club games pick back up in late April.

Lots of sensible restrictions on the games and procedures until the Covid situation changes. No handshakes, no passing around player cards, limits on number of masked family members allowed to attend, etc.


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Jul 25, 2020)

STX said:


> I was concerned about that, too. But apparently it is really, really hard to spread the virus on a soccer field doing normal soccer activities.
> 
> I assume that's because it doesn't satisfy many of the main criteria that are proven to be high risk for delivering a communicable load of the virus (close, continous contact of more than 15 minutes in a poorly ventilated space).
> 
> ...


That sounds like a really reasonable solution. I wish we were doing the same thing here.


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 25, 2020)

Funny to see all the left wing Demo rats come out  and voice their concerns. You guys can quarantine til 2022. Let the healthy fit population go on with everyday life. That’s what should have been done from the get go. Strategic social distancing like Sweden’s Anyone that’s under that population at risk should stay home and wait for the vaccine. For the rest of us it’s just the flu. CA took the socialist approach/


----------



## espola (Jul 25, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Funny to see all the left wing Demo rats come out  and voice their concerns. You guys can quarantine til 2022. Let the healthy fit population go on with everyday life. That’s what should have been done from the get go. Strategic social distancing like Sweden’s Anyone that’s under that population at risk should stay home and wait for the vaccine. For the rest of us it’s just the flu. CA took the socialist approach/


Sweden is having a much worse result than neighboring countries who imposed stricter measures.


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 25, 2020)

espola said:


> Sweden is having a much worse result than neighboring countries who imposed stricter measures.



Let’s look at Sweden folks where there was never a Quarantine or lockdown and where the politics don’t exist to manipulate #COVID19 numbers for political reasons. They are approaching #herdimmunity numbers don’t lie. They have advocated for strategic social distancing from the get go. Covid should be over after November   #myprection and I don’t have to be a fortune teller to tell you this  Once again not saying this virus is not real but here in the USA there are too many things happening with the reporting of things. Click on the link









						Sweden COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
					

Sweden Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.




					www.worldometers.info


----------



## dad4 (Jul 25, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Funny to see all the left wing Demo rats come out  and voice their concerns. You guys can quarantine til 2022. Let the healthy fit population go on with everyday life. That’s what should have been done from the get go. Strategic social distancing like Sweden’s Anyone that’s under that population at risk should stay home and wait for the vaccine. For the rest of us it’s just the flu. CA took the socialist approach/


Trouble is, if half of us quarantine and half of us party, the disease spreads, and we all end up like Florida.  Disease is a team sport, and the Republicans and the Democrats are on the same team, whether we like it or not.


----------



## espola (Jul 25, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Let’s look at Sweden folks where there was never a Quarantine or lockdown and where the politics don’t exist to manipulate #COVID19 numbers for political reasons. They are approaching #herdimmunity numbers don’t lie. They have advocated for strategic social distancing from the get go. Covid should be over after November   #myprection and I don’t have to be a fortune teller to tell you this  Once again not saying this virus is not real but here in the USA there are too many things happening with the reporting of things. Click on the link
> 
> 
> 
> ...











						Covid Trends
					

Visualizing the exponential growth of COVID-19 across the world.




					aatishb.com


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 25, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Trouble is, if half of us quarantine and half of us party, the disease spreads, and we all end up like Florida.  Disease is a team sport, and the Republicans and the Democrats are on the same team, whether we like it or not.


The key is strategical social distancing and quarantine like Sweden did. I would even add that we separate the population at risk from the rest of everyone else until we build herd immunity. The population at risk can wait for the vaccine. Or if they need to come out have them sign a Covid waiver and we’ll give them a special red colored n95 mask If they wish to take the risk. That way we all know to stay away from them. Look at Sweden. They did it right.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 25, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Funny to see all the left wing Demo rats come out  and voice their concerns. You guys can quarantine til 2022. Let the healthy fit population go on with everyday life. That’s what should have been done from the get go. Strategic social distancing like Sweden’s Anyone that’s under that population at risk should stay home and wait for the vaccine. For the rest of us it’s just the flu. CA took the socialist approach/


Now, now Luis, let's not be calling folks names.  I did have a few dear friends here call me dam fool, idiot, a t supporter although I never vote, moocher, looking for handouts, club hopper, look in the mirror Jack, and now my favorite of all, a man crush with the Master Jedi wizard coach, the Great Tad   I always liked you Luis.  Welcome back.  How's the camp looking for Monday?


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 25, 2020)

espola said:


> Covid Trends
> 
> 
> Visualizing the exponential growth of COVID-19 across the world.
> ...


exactly. Declining deaths


----------



## espola (Jul 25, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> The key is strategical social distancing and quarantine like Sweden did. I would even add that we separate the population at risk from the rest of everyone else until we build herd immunity. The population at risk can wait for the vaccine. Or if they need to come out have them sign a Covid waiver and we’ll give them a special red colored n95 mask If they wish to take the risk. That way we all know to stay away from them. Look at Sweden. They did it right.
> 
> View attachment 8294View attachment 8295
> View attachment 8296


What do you think "herd immunity" means?


----------



## espola (Jul 25, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> exactly. Declining deaths


After many unnecessary deaths.


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 25, 2020)

espola said:


> What do you think "herd immunity" means?


Collateral damage. It’s like we have x numbers of fatalities from car accidents a year but we don’t stop everyone from driving and getting around  under 6000 deaths for Sweden is not bad. Try searching for how many people die of heart disease. Let’s ban junk food


----------



## espola (Jul 25, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Collateral damage. It’s like we have x numbers of fatalities from car accidents a year but we don’t stop everyone from driving and getting around  under 6000 deaths for Sweden is not bad. Try searching for how many people die of heart disease. Let’s ban junk food


That's not even close.  Where did you learn that?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 25, 2020)

@Luis Andres only and for no one else.  Stay the course my brother.  I will go back to me wife and get all cozy and snugly with some hot coco and watch the real Coo Coo bird swarm around.   BTW, I hear #2 is making some noise.  The world is changing bro and #2 is primed for the feature of being a great girls goat youth soccer player.  They should have u12 and under playing right now.  I hope The Governor will show more Mercy to the youth.  I will stay home and we have not visited grandma & grandpa since Jan


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 25, 2020)

espola said:


> That's not even close.  Where did you learn that?


Is


----------



## Luis Andres (Jul 25, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> @Luis Andres only and for no one else.  Stay the course my brother.  I will go back to me wife and get all cozy and snugly with some hot coco and watch the real Coo Coo bird swarm around.   BTW, I hear #2 is making some noise.  The world is changing bro and #2 is primed for the feature of being a great girls goat youth soccer player.  They should have u12 and under playing right now.  I hope The Governor will show more Mercy to the youth.  I will stay home and we have not visited grandma & grandpa since Jan


Newsom is just playing the Trump Games. But there is new hope with this new home testing for Covid


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 25, 2020)

espola said:


> After many unnecessary deaths.


Do they make up for it with the Volvo? It's a really safe car.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 25, 2020)

Sweden has more deaths per population than we do, despite socialized medicine.  564 per million instead of 451 per million.

If we are going to copy a European country, why not try to do what Germany did?  They also have declining cases, but only had to suffer 110 deaths per million.


----------



## espola (Jul 26, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> View attachment 8297Is


 Did you intend that response to make sense?


----------



## espola (Jul 26, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Newsom is just playing the Trump Games. But there is new hope with this new home testing for CovidView attachment 8298


Thank you for revealing the depth of your thinking on this important matter.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 26, 2020)

Gavin Newsom’s $3.7 Million Estate Was Gifted to Him in 2019; 3 Months Later He Got a $2.7 Million Tax Free Cash-Out
Posted at 5:00 pm on July 25, 2020 by Jennifer Van Laar
  Share    Tweet


Gavin Newsom’s $3.7 million, 12,000 square foot mansion, on 8+ acres along the American River in Sacramento, was the area’s most expensive home sale in 2018
The gated estate consists of a 6 bedroom/10 bath home, a guest house, a pool, a tennis court, and a wine cave
An LLC registered to Newsom’s cousin, long-time business partner, and Co-President of PlumpJack, Jeremy Scherer, paid cash for the estate in December 2018
Newsom’s spox, though, claimed in Jan 2019 that it was Newsom who’d paid cash for the home – puzzling, since Newsom still carried a $3.2 million mortgage on his prior home
In Oct 2019 the LLC gifted the home to the Newsoms free and clear, claiming Newsom was a member of the LLC to avoid a $4,000 Transfer Tax
In January 2020 the Newsoms received $2.7 million tax-free when they obtained a cash-out refinance
Newsom’s financial disclosure forms don’t mention the LLC or the gifts, which far exceed the $500 limit
In 2003, Newsom was cited for failing to disclose $11 million in real estate and business loans
One thing that’s become extraordinarily clear to Californians in 2020 is that there’s one set of rules for Gov. Gavin Newsom, and there’s another set of rules for the rest of us. He preaches that we’re all in this together and that we have to sacrifice to “meet this moment,” yet he’s not missing a paycheck.

As California businesses struggle, he sends a $1 billion contract for masks to a Chinese company. When he shut down wineries throughout 80 percent of California, he kept his open.

While the dream of owning a home is increasingly out of reach for California’s families, it appears that Newsom received a $3.7 million estate from an LLC owned by his cousin then, a few months later took out a $2.695 million (tax-free) cash-out mortgage on it — and didn’t report the gift on any of his financial disclosure forms.

Yes, it’s clear that Gavin Newsom doesn’t live by the same rules the rest of us do. It’s good to be king.

During the eight years that Gavin Newsom served as California’s Lieutenant Governor, he and his family still lived a few hours from Sacramento, in their $4.5 million Bay Area compound. Throughout the 2018 gubernatorial campaign, he wouldn’t commit to moving his family to the capital. Days before his January 7, 2019 swearing-in ceremony, Newsom announced that the family would be moving into the Governor’s Mansion — which wasn’t true at all. Unbeknownst to the public, an LLC owned by Newsom’s cousin had already purchased an estate in Fair Oaks on December 21, 2018, for the Governor’s family to live in, for $3.7 million cash.








						Gavin Newsom's $3.7 Million Estate Was Gifted to Him in 2019; 3 Months Later He Got a $2.7 Million Tax Free Cash-Out
					

It's good to be king.




					www.redstate.com


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Collateral damage. It’s like we have x numbers of fatalities from car accidents a year but we don’t stop everyone from driving and getting around  under 6000 deaths for Sweden is not bad. Try searching for how many people die of heart disease. Let’s ban junk food


Let me help you out with the numbers....according to the Insurance for Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), in 2018 there were 33,564 fatal motor vehicle accidents in the U.S., causing 36,560 deaths.  Obviously COVID has already significantly passed that number.  What has been implemented to prevent traffic fatalities is we ticket people who drive over the speed limit, don't stop at stop signs, drive recklessly, and don't head the temporary mandates so to speak (i.e. "slow to 25 miles an hour men at work" etc.).  We basically stop them from having freedom to make dumb choices.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Let me help you out with the numbers....according to the Insurance for Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), in 2018 there were 33,564 fatal motor vehicle accidents in the U.S., causing 36,560 deaths.  Obviously COVID has already significantly passed that number.  What has been implemented to prevent traffic fatalities is we ticket people who drive over the speed limit, don't stop at stop signs, drive recklessly, and don't head the temporary mandates so to speak (i.e. "slow to 25 miles an hour men at work" etc.).  We basically stop them from having freedom to make dumb choices.


Slight quibble. The relevant comparison isn’t the no of car deaths per year.  The relevant comparison is the no of deaths over the existence of Covid (whenever years hence the thing finally fades) v no of deaths over the existence of the car. 

According to the studies done now on the efficacies of lockdowns, as well as Los Angeles own experience when before lockdowns the r0 had dropped, the measures you describe are the equivalent of social distancing.  The hard measures being bandied about by the lockdown til vaccine school would be the equivalent of dropping the speed limit to 35 or 25 mph (depending on severity of lockdown), banning more than 1 passenger, alcohol sensors on every car and banning teenaged drivers. 

Hearing more complications re the vaccine. May not be 100% effective particularly with elderly. 20% hard no’s Saying they won’t take it. Will likely require at least 2 injections to be effective at all. Will likely require boosters several times to remain effective.  Children’s testing is running far behind and they won’t be in first groups and pediatric doses for small ones delayed.  Faucis date is already slipping too.  For those in perpetual lockdown and schoolS shut until the vaccine, it’s not the panacea you think it is...at least for a while....see the Atlantic article among others.


----------



## espola (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Let me help you out with the numbers....according to the Insurance for Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), in 2018 there were 33,564 fatal motor vehicle accidents in the U.S., causing 36,560 deaths.  Obviously COVID has already significantly passed that number.  What has been implemented to prevent traffic fatalities is we ticket people who drive over the speed limit, don't stop at stop signs, drive recklessly, and don't head the temporary mandates so to speak (i.e. "slow to 25 miles an hour men at work" etc.).  We basically stop them from having freedom to make dumb choices.


I like what you have posted here, but you missed the point that none of that has anything to do with "herd immunity" as Luis seems to be claiming.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Collateral damage. It’s like we have x numbers of fatalities from car accidents a year but we don’t stop everyone from driving and getting around  under 6000 deaths for Sweden is not bad. Try searching for how many people die of heart disease. Let’s ban junk food


As far as how many people die of heart disease....the people that die from heart disease are not dying because of the choices made by other people so the analogy makes 0 sense.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Slight quibble. The relevant comparison isn’t the no of car deaths per year.  The relevant comparison is the no of deaths over the existence of Covid (whenever years hence the thing finally fades) v no of deaths over the existence of the car.
> 
> According to the studies done now on the efficacies of lockdowns, as well as Los Angeles own experience when before lockdowns the r0 had dropped, the measures you describe are the equivalent of social distancing.  The hard measures being bandied about by the lockdown til vaccine school would be the equivalent of dropping the speed limit to 35 or 25 mph (depending on severity of lockdown), banning more than 1 passenger, alcohol sensors on every car and banning teenaged drivers.
> 
> Hearing more complications re the vaccine. May not be 100% effective particularly with elderly. 20% hard no’s Saying they won’t take it. Will likely require at least 2 injections to be effective at all. Will likely require boosters several times to remain effective.  Children’s testing is running far behind and they won’t be in first groups and pediatric doses for small ones delayed.  Faucis date is already slipping too.  For those in perpetual lockdown and schoolS shut until the vaccine, it’s not the panacea you think it is...at least for a while....see the Atlantic article among others.


Please share the studies and support for your comments.  It is about hospitalization capacity!  Obviously various levels of shut down work because the recent mandates on no indoor dining etc. reduced the increases we have been seeing in hospitalizations starting this last week.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Slight quibble. The relevant comparison isn’t the no of car deaths per year.  The relevant comparison is the no of deaths over the existence of Covid (whenever years hence the thing finally fades) v no of deaths over the existence of the car.
> 
> According to the studies done now on the efficacies of lockdowns, as well as Los Angeles own experience when before lockdowns the r0 had dropped, the measures you describe are the equivalent of social distancing.  The hard measures being bandied about by the lockdown til vaccine school would be the equivalent of dropping the speed limit to 35 or 25 mph (depending on severity of lockdown), banning more than 1 passenger, alcohol sensors on every car and banning teenaged drivers.
> 
> Hearing more complications re the vaccine. May not be 100% effective particularly with elderly. 20% hard no’s Saying they won’t take it. Will likely require at least 2 injections to be effective at all. Will likely require boosters several times to remain effective.  Children’s testing is running far behind and they won’t be in first groups and pediatric doses for small ones delayed.  Faucis date is already slipping too.  For those in perpetual lockdown and schoolS shut until the vaccine, it’s not the panacea you think it is...at least for a while....see the Atlantic article among others.


By the way...just because there is a study doesn't mean it is valid.  There are many studies out there that aren't "peer reviewed".  I stop reading at the point I see "not peer reviewed" because there are many studies reported that are crap.  There is one study out there that says Hydrogen Peroxide cures cancer.  Obviously the notation of being peer reviewed is not included.

I believe one of the studies you are referring to isn't peer reviewed and in fact includes 16 people.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

espola said:


> I like what you have posted here, but you missed the point that none of that has anything to do with "herd immunity" as Luis seems to be claiming.


Oh...I scan through many comments and if they haven't articulated a position in a succinct fashion then I miss it.  I did see something about herd immunity but that argument is sooo old and debunked I don't even deal with it.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Please share the studies and support for your comments.  It is about hospitalization capacity!  Obviously various levels of shut down work because the recent mandates on no indoor dining etc. reduced the increases we have been seeing in hospitalizations starting this last week.


There’s been a few. But I agree it’s about hospital capacity and the studies have focused on the r0 not hospital capacity. It also points then to lockdowns should be used only when an epidemic threatens that capacity. Not a National lockdown when some regions were ok

We don’t know why the curves are projecting downward either since those haven’t been studied. Ive argued it’s because the waves are mathematical and they’ll do that regardless of what govts do. Could also be because people get more cautious as things get worse. Also Mexico’s imports have begun to ease off as well.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> By the way...just because there is a study doesn't mean it is valid.  There are many studies out there that aren't "peer reviewed".  I stop reading at the point I see "not peer reviewed" because there are many studies reported that are crap.  There is one study out there that says Hydrogen Peroxide cures cancer.  Obviously the notation of being peer reviewed is not included.
> 
> I believe one of the studies you are referring to isn't peer reviewed and in fact includes 16 people.


The Key to Defeating COVID-19 Already Exists. We Need to Start Using It | Opinion

BY HARVEY A. RISCH, MD, PHD ON 7/23/20 AT 7:00 AM EDT
SHARE
OPINION CORONAVIRUS HEALTH AND MEDICINE MEDICINE FDA
As professor of epidemiology at Yale School of Public Health, I have authored over 300 peer-reviewed publications and currently hold senior positions on the editorial boards of several leading journals. I am usually accustomed to advocating for positions within the mainstream of medicine, so have been flummoxed to find that, in the midst of a crisis, I am fighting for a treatment that the data fully support but which, for reasons having nothing to do with a correct understanding of the science, has been pushed to the sidelines. As a result, tens of thousands of patients with COVID-19 are dying unnecessarily. Fortunately, the situation can be reversed easily and quickly.


I am referring, of course, to the medication hydroxychloroquine. When this inexpensive oral medication is given very early in the course of illness, before the virus has had time to multiply beyond control, it has shown to be highly effective, especially when given in combination with the antibiotics azithromycin or doxycycline and the nutritional supplement zinc.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> There’s been a few. But I agree it’s about hospital capacity and the studies have focused on the r0 not hospital capacity. It also points then to lockdowns should be used only when an epidemic threatens that capacity. Not a National lockdown when some regions were ok
> 
> We don’t know why the curves are projecting downward either since those haven’t been studied. Ive argued it’s because the waves are mathematical and they’ll do that regardless of what govts do. Could also be because people get more cautious as things get worse. Also Mexico’s imports have begun to ease off as well.


Logic....we have been increasing hospitalizations for COVID in OC every week since the pandemic started.  There was never 1 week that there was a decrease.  We got to a point of increasing hospitalizations by greater than 30% per week for 3 weeks at the time Newsom pulled back on openings. 

We started seeing small decreases in the weekly increase within 2 weeks after the mandates to this last week we saw a weekly decrease for the first time since the Pandemic began.  OC Health already attributed many outbreaks to restaurants. 

If you look at the science, the primary means of transmission is through respiratory droplets and while you can get it from surfaces, the major spread comes from person to person contact so the Mexico notation is highly unlikely for such significant changes in a matter of weeks in most counties suffering from large increases in the prior weeks.

Your mathmatical theory falls apart when you look at Arizona, Florida, and Texas who didn't pull back until hospital capacity was already reached or almost reached and now that they did implement some pull backs, they are seeing some relief though not enough because they did it too late.


----------



## espola (Jul 26, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> The Key to Defeating COVID-19 Already Exists. We Need to Start Using It | Opinion
> 
> BY HARVEY A. RISCH, MD, PHD ON 7/23/20 AT 7:00 AM EDT
> SHARE
> ...


That paper (and others by the same author) refer to using HCQ alone or in combination with other established antibiotics on patients who are already sick enough to seek treatment.  It has little or no effect on the spread of covid-19 among the general population since it is not intended to be used in place of a proper vaccine.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Logic....we have been increasing hospitalizations for COVID in OC every week since the pandemic started.  There was never 1 week that there was a decrease.


You've committed the causation logical fallacy.  And undermined your own argument by saying there was never 1 week that there was a decrease despite govt policies.  Not looking to get into a big back and forth with you since I'm busy packing, and I know your heart is in the right place and it would require a deep dive into the Mexico and Mexico border counties numbers.  I'll just leave it that while you have several great points, you've overreached on the conclusions.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Logic....we have been increasing hospitalizations for COVID in OC every week since the pandemic started.  There was never 1 week that there was a decrease.  We got to a point of increasing hospitalizations by greater than 30% per week for 3 weeks at the time Newsom pulled back on openings.
> 
> We started seeing small decreases in the weekly increase within 2 weeks after the mandates to this last week we saw a weekly decrease for the first time since the Pandemic began.  OC Health already attributed many outbreaks to restaurants.
> 
> ...


Phoenix has had a mask requirement since mid June, before their hospitals got really full and they had to import nurses.

Not clear how seriously they take it, but it is there.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 26, 2020)

I hear announcement coming soon for the OC and youth sports


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 26, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Phoenix has had a mask requirement since mid June, before their hospitals got really full and they had to import nurses.
> 
> Not clear how seriously they take it, but it is there.


I believe they pulled back bars and gyms on June 29. In general, it appears that if there is at least some semblance of social distancing and avoiding large groups inside, the case load can be handled by hospitals. Also, in AZ, TX and FL they are likely approaching the level of immunity that the states in the NE have due to their initial wave. That helps.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> You've committed the causation logical fallacy.  And undermined your own argument by saying there was never 1 week that there was a decrease despite govt policies.  Not looking to get into a big back and forth with you since I'm busy packing, and I know your heart is in the right place and it would require a deep dive into the Mexico and Mexico border counties numbers.  I'll just leave it that while you have several great points, you've overreached on the conclusions.


Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words....


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 26, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Hate to break it to you, but the Titanic has already crashed and your blaming the 1st officer because you don’t like they way he’s handing out the life rafts.
> 
> What happened to the captain?





Luis Andres said:


> exactly. Declining deaths





Luis Andres said:


> Newsom is just playing the Trump Games. But there is new hope with this new home testing for CovidView attachment 8298


Actually you might have a point, but send it to Trump.  The latest studies do show stool samples can and do contain covid.  Just a few days ago it was announced that a study of the waste water at Yosemite showed a high level of covid.  Someone should develop a test for stool samples.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 26, 2020)

espola said:


> I like what you have posted here, but you missed the point that none of that has anything to do with "herd immunity" as Luis seems to be claiming.


The more I look at the data the more I realize it best not to get too worked up about the percent needed for herd immunity: (1 - 1/R0). R0 is very tricky to calculate with accuracy and even if it is possible, it is likely that it will overestimate the percent needed for herd immunity given that we know that infections are driven by "super spreaders". It also doesn't help that R0 is not constant and depends on human behavior and the environment.


----------



## lafalafa (Jul 26, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I hear announcement coming soon for the OC and youth sports


Weekend camps or clinics?

Reciieved notice today some cities are going to start permitting on August 1st outdoor youth sport camps on weekends only, but not during the week.

Not sure why the weekend only thing but have notices about openings starting Aug 1st for the weekends only Saturday or Sunday for the month of August only.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> You've committed the causation logical fallacy.  And undermined your own argument by saying there was never 1 week that there was a decrease despite govt policies.  Not looking to get into a big back and forth with you since I'm busy packing, and I know your heart is in the right place and it would require a deep dive into the Mexico and Mexico border counties numbers.  I'll just leave it that while you have several great points, you've overreached on the conclusions.


Any discussion about mathematical equations related to herd immunity at this point in the pandemic is premature.

"Let’s say the R0 for COVID-19 is 2.5, meaning each infected person infects, on average, two and a half other people (a common estimate). In that case, the herd immunity threshold for COVID-19 is 0.6, or 60%. That means the virus will spread at an accelerating rate until, on average across different places, 60% of the population becomes immune."









						The Tricky Math of Herd Immunity for COVID-19
					

Herd immunity differs from place to place, and many factors influence how it’s calculated.




					www.quantamagazine.org


----------



## espola (Jul 26, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> The more I look at the data the more I realize it best not to get too worked up about the percent needed for herd immunity: (1 - 1/R0). R0 is very tricky to calculate with accuracy and even if it is possible, it is likely that it will overestimate the percent needed for herd immunity given that we know that infections are driven by "super spreaders". It also doesn't help that R0 is not constant and depends on human behavior and the environment.


In the classical biological sense, herd immunity is achieved when sufficient members of the herd carry antibodies to the pathogen in question (either by having the disease and surviving it or by having the antibodies passed on by their birth mother) so that a new wave of infection from outside the herd has little effect.  The level of post-infection survival needed to achieve herd immunity depends on the disease.  I have noticed that a lot of people bring up "herd immunity" in the same kind of tone that they use with "First Amendment', which is meaningless without context.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 26, 2020)

espola said:


> In the classical biological sense, herd immunity is achieved when sufficient members of the herd carry antibodies to the pathogen in question (either by having the disease and surviving it or by having the antibodies passed on by their birth mother) so that a new wave of infection from outside the herd has little effect.  The level of post-infection survival needed to achieve herd immunity depends on the disease.


Yes, I'll add that there's also the "wild card" of how long immunity lasts.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Any discussion about mathematical equations related to herd immunity at this point in the pandemic is premature.
> 
> "Let’s say the R0 for COVID-19 is 2.5, meaning each infected person infects, on average, two and a half other people (a common estimate). In that case, the herd immunity threshold for COVID-19 is 0.6, or 60%. That means the virus will spread at an accelerating rate until, on average across different places, 60% of the population becomes immune."
> 
> ...


Excellent article. It gets beyond the basic example you show and then explains why some experts expect it to be less than 60% - some significantly so. Not sure which ones were already peer reviewed.

It addressed the idea that some people are more susceptible than others. However, I was disappointed they didn't address the "super spreader" idea that is out there and whether these folks are just at the wrong place at the wrong time (random) or if there is a strong correlation to behavior and being a super spreader. It is not much of a stretch to believe that a "super spreader" is also much more likely to get the virus as the behaviors to spread to others would match the behaviors to get the virus. If super spreaders exist and are more likely to catch the virus, that would definitely lead to a more significant early spike in cases and then a considerably lower "herd immunity" percentage than initially estimated as "super spreaders" catch the virus at a rate higher than the lower spreaders.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Excellent article. It gets beyond the basic example you show and then explains why some experts expect it to be less than 60% - some significantly so. Not sure which ones were already peer reviewed.
> 
> It addressed the idea that some people are more susceptible than others. However, I was disappointed they didn't address the "super spreader" idea that is out there and whether these folks are just at the wrong place at the wrong time (random) or if there is a strong correlation to behavior and being a super spreader. It is not much of a stretch to believe that a "super spreader" is also much more likely to get the virus as the behaviors to spread to others would match the behaviors to get the virus. If super spreaders exist and are more likely to catch the virus, that would definitely lead to a more significant early spike in cases and then a considerably lower "herd immunity" percentage than initially estimated as "super spreaders" catch the virus at a rate higher than the lower spreaders.


The basic premise is that we don't have enough information yet.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> The basic premise is that we don't have enough information yet.


They'll have a better idea once it's all over ;-). For now, the rate of positive tests and hospital occupancy rates are enough to know what direction things are going.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Any discussion about mathematical equations related to herd immunity at this point in the pandemic is premature.
> 
> "Let’s say the R0 for COVID-19 is 2.5, meaning each infected person infects, on average, two and a half other people (a common estimate). In that case, the herd immunity threshold for COVID-19 is 0.6, or 60%. That means the virus will spread at an accelerating rate until, on average across different places, 60% of the population becomes immune."
> 
> ...


Herd immunity isn’t really the correct term. At a 20% refusal rate the vaccine isn’t going to get us to herd immunity. One thing is clear though. At about 15-20% penetration the thing does slow down. We don’t know yet why...is it because people freak out and ultra distance, some cross or T cell immunity, weather. We really don’t know. I’m skeptical it’s just because the governor shut indoor dining. 

Was at 4 parks this weekend. 1 in moorpark had full blown adult and kids baseball game complete with uniforms. 1 soccer in Camarillo and 1 Agoura has teams scrimmaging with their full uniforms on (1 shut down and resumed when cops left). But van nuys was nuttiest. Several soccer pickup games, basketball and playground with the tape torn down, a full blown kids baseball game.  Several bbqs.  Cops standing their starring. Of course since exercising no masks...more dangerous than protests....social distancing is dead. Doubt governors puny measures are doing very much at this point.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 26, 2020)

espola said:


> Sweden is having a much worse result than neighboring countries who imposed stricter measures.


Jury is still out, libtard.  But you keep drumming up that fear.  We're not even CLOSE to November yet.









						Did Sweden's coronavirus strategy succeed or fail?
					

Despite global criticism, Sweden has seen a drop in serious Covid cases without ever having a lockdown.



					www.bbc.com


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 26, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Now, now Luis, let's not be calling folks names.  I did have a few dear friends here call me dam fool, idiot, a t supporter although I never vote, moocher, looking for handouts, club hopper, look in the mirror Jack, and now my favorite of all, a man crush with the Master Jedi wizard coach, the Great Tad   I always liked you Luis.  Welcome back.  How's the camp looking for Monday?


Spicoli, how many clubs in how many years?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 26, 2020)

espola said:


> After many unnecessary deaths.


Unnecessary deaths happen every day, Ebola.  Should we stop getting out of bed or just until the election?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 26, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Gavin Newsom’s $3.7 Million Estate Was Gifted to Him in 2019; 3 Months Later He Got a $2.7 Million Tax Free Cash-Out
> Posted at 5:00 pm on July 25, 2020 by Jennifer Van Laar
> Share    Tweet
> 
> ...


There's a happy ending, though, Joe.  Now Gavin has upgraded.  Moving to VERY conservative El Dorado Hills.  $ 5.5M on a hill, in a gated community, so he doesn't have to deal with the homeless mess he built.  Protesters can't look at him through the gate anymore, either.  Just like the phony Hollywood PRETEND liberals that have private security and live behind 8 foot walls.  They need the poor sheep to pay for their movies and Gavin needs the sheep votes.  At the end of the day, he doesn't have to live with them, he just needs to pander.









						Gavin Newsom Update: He's Moving to an exclusive community in El Dorado County - That Happens to NOT be on the Shutdown List
					

Western El Dorado County has similar demographics to South Placer and Northeast Sacramento County.  As you know from reading the Right on Daily Blog - Gavin Newsom's children's school costs 25K a month per kid and was still open as of his edict this morning 7-17-2020.    It is well known in th




					rightondaily.com


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## Copa9 (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Any discussion about mathematical equations related to herd immunity at this point in the pandemic is premature.
> 
> "Let’s say the R0 for COVID-19 is 2.5, meaning each infected person infects, on average, two and a half other people (a common estimate). In that case, the herd immunity threshold for COVID-19 is 0.6, or 60%. That means the virus will spread at an accelerating rate until, on average across different places, 60% of the population becomes immune."
> 
> ...


Latest studies seem to suggest that a person's antibodies for covid-19 last about 3 months.  So there you go. We need a vaccine before any real "herd immunity" can happen. Then just like the seasonal flu, a covid vaccine shot every year.


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## kickingandscreaming (Jul 26, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Latest studies seem to suggest that a person's antibodies for covid-19 last about 3 months.  So there you go. We need a vaccine before any real "herd immunity" can happen. Then just like the seasonal flu, a covid vaccine shot every year.


Antibodies aren't the be-all, end-all.









						T cell tests aim for broader picture of COVID-19 immunity
					

While the COVID-19 testing conversation has centered on assays for antiviral antibodies or the virus itself, at least two companies think T cell tests coul...




					www.biocentury.com
				




But antibody _levels_ are only part of the immunity story. While antibodies may wane past the limit of detection, that doesn’t mean they go away entirely. And even a very low level could be protective. “What‘s important when you’ve been exposed to the virus is how quickly you can _ramp up_ those antibodies,” Permar says. That involves a whole army of cells, which store knowledge of each new pathogen they encounter. There are B cells, which help coax those virus-specific antibodies into existence, plus killer T cells, which can learn to obliterate infected cells. Helper T cells help orchestrate the whole process. “You have multiple arms of the immune response,” says Donna Farber, an immunologist at Columbia University who studies respiratory viruses. “It’s like the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force.” If one branch stands down, the body hasn’t necessarily lost its germ-fighting capacity.


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## Luis Andres (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Let me help you out with the numbers....according to the Insurance for Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), in 2018 there were 33,564 fatal motor vehicle accidents in the U.S., causing 36,560 deaths.  Obviously COVID has already significantly passed that number.  What has been implemented to prevent traffic fatalities is we ticket people who drive over the speed limit, don't stop at stop signs, drive recklessly, and don't head the temporary mandates so to speak (i.e. "slow to 25 miles an hour men at work" etc.).  We basically stop them from having freedom to make dumb choices.


Ok so your argument is because you say that there are way more covid deaths, it does not qualify for an example in comparison. I’ll give you that. But how about you go research the number of people that die in the US cause of heart disease. 647,000. 300,000 due to obesity alone. Should we ban all the processed junk food that is creating obesity at enormous rates that we have never seen? My argument is that the population that’s at risk should be identified and protected. They need to quarantine and wait for the vaccine while the rest of us soldiers fight it and create herd immunity. We may get mildly sick, some may even get the flu but when the population at risk returns we are no longer vectors. They can wait for the vaccine or sign a Covid waiver and risk coming out but wearing a red mask so we know to stay away from them to protect them. Common sense: Like done in Sweden. But no we decided to take the communist approach in CA.


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## Luis Andres (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Oh...I scan through many comments and if they haven't articulated a position in a succinct fashion then I miss it.  I did see something about herd immunity but that argument is sooo old and debunked I don't even deal with it.


look at Sweden. Where Numbers don’t lie and Politics don’t fly. Where it’s just about covid. Read whatever article you want to read. But the numbers don’t lie. Their approach worked at a cost of 5600 deaths. Only 50 people in the ICU and they have a population the size of LA county, 10,000 million. Facts, numbers matter. They tell us the true story. Anyone can write a propaganda article. To convince emotional people who only use their emotions to make decisions and come up with non-sequitur conclusions. They are all starting to go back 
to normal life we we all here sit at home wishing we were at soccer tournaments.


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## Chalklines (Jul 26, 2020)

@Luis Andres Look at the demographics compared to LA County 









						Sweden Demographics Profile
					





					www.indexmundi.com
				




They dont have a huge Hispanic population living on top of one another and they also dont have a huge african american population that has underlying health conditions. Black/Hispanic have been the hardest hit in California. 

The fast spread of the virus in places such as california,texas and florida is due to over population and an un healthy community. You just cant control it. Too many people.

Sweden has so much more then we do working in their favor that naturally brings the numbers down.


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## Sheriff Joe (Jul 26, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> @Luis Andres Look at the demographics compared to LA County
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You make way too much sense, just stop.


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## Zen (Jul 26, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> look at Sweden. Where Numbers don’t lie and Politics don’t fly. Where it’s just about covid. Read whatever article you want to read. But the numbers don’t lie. Their approach worked at a cost of 5600 deaths. Only 50 people in the ICU and they have a population the size of LA county, 10,000 million. Facts, numbers matter. They tell us the true story. Anyone can write a propaganda article. To convince emotional people who only use their emotions to make decisions and come up with non-sequitur conclusions. They are all starting to go back
> to normal life we we all here sit at home wishing we were at soccer tournaments.


LA County has 39X higher population density than Sweden.  There are many other factors to consider to understand the 'true story'.   

Sweden's is 64 ppl per square mile vs. LA County is 2,489 ppl per square mile, and city of LA is 8,449 ppl per sq. mile
Way more single head of households living alone in Sweden compared to US make-up as well

Only thing clear is people in the US are going to do whatever they 'feel' regardless of any data.  They also only accept cuts of data that serve and support what they feel like doing anyways.  These are complex times, with a lot of data points to consider. Yes, there are real trade-offs people are going to have to learn to live with for a while for any semblance of normalcy. 

It will look different for everyone, but Sweden is not an example of a success story and James Franco sounds like an idiot.  Obesity isn't a contagious virus you can't see coming, and have no way to combat.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> look at Sweden. Where Numbers don’t lie and Politics don’t fly. Where it’s just about covid. Read whatever article you want to read. But the numbers don’t lie. Their approach worked at a cost of 5600 deaths. Only 50 people in the ICU and they have a population the size of LA county, 10,000 million. Facts, numbers matter. They tell us the true story. Anyone can write a propaganda article. To convince emotional people who only use their emotions to make decisions and come up with non-sequitur conclusions. They are all starting to go back
> to normal life we we all here sit at home wishing we were at soccer tournaments.
> 
> View attachment 8309View attachment 8306View attachment 8307View attachment 8308


You might want to learn how to make pictures smaller before posting.  The Sweden experiment was defined  a failure.  Done.  Next


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> You might want to learn how to make pictures smaller before posting.  The Sweden experiment was defined  a failure.  Done.  Next


No, not really.  









						Did Sweden's coronavirus strategy succeed or fail?
					

Despite global criticism, Sweden has seen a drop in serious Covid cases without ever having a lockdown.



					www.bbc.com


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Ok so your argument is because you say that there are way more covid deaths, it does not qualify for an example in comparison. I’ll give you that. But how about you go research the number of people that die in the US cause of heart disease. 647,000. 300,000 due to obesity alone. Should we ban all the processed junk food that is creating obesity at enormous rates that we have never seen? My argument is that the population that’s at risk should be identified and protected. They need to quarantine and wait for the vaccine while the rest of us soldiers fight it and create herd immunity. We may get mildly sick, some may even get the flu but when the population at risk returns we are no longer vectors. They can wait for the vaccine or sign a Covid waiver and risk coming out but wearing a red mask so we know to stay away from them to protect them. Common sense: Like done in Sweden. But no we decided to take the communist approach in CA. View attachment 8304View attachment 8304


No offense but your arguments tend to not make sense a nd you reference what my argument is that is not true.  I see a rabbit hole that I am not going down.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Herd immunity isn’t really the correct term. At a 20% refusal rate the vaccine isn’t going to get us to herd immunity. One thing is clear though. At about 15-20% penetration the thing does slow down. We don’t know yet why...is it because people freak out and ultra distance, some cross or T cell immunity, weather. We really don’t know. I’m skeptical it’s just because the governor shut indoor dining.
> 
> Was at 4 parks this weekend. 1 in moorpark had full blown adult and kids baseball game complete with uniforms. 1 soccer in Camarillo and 1 Agoura has teams scrimmaging with their full uniforms on (1 shut down and resumed when cops left). But van nuys was nuttiest. Several soccer pickup games, basketball and playground with the tape torn down, a full blown kids baseball game.  Several bbqs.  Cops standing their starring. Of course since exercising no masks...more dangerous than protests....social distancing is dead. Doubt governors puny measures are doing very much at this point.


You constantly speak as an authority in COVID yet I rarely if ever see you present evidence for the absolutes you present.  Therefore, I can't even contemplate what you are saying because they are just words with no meaning.

I was just at the grocery store in Anaheim and had to wait for my groceries for 15 minutes.  In that time, I noted approximately 75 people come and go and noted only 1 person without a mask and 1 person with it below their nose.  My brother went to the store yesterday and noted all people wore a mask.  Prior to the mandate, there were several people I would see without a mask in the store.  There were several items noted in the pull back and one of them was mandatory masks.


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## kickingandscreaming (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> You might want to learn how to make pictures smaller before posting.  The Sweden experiment was defined  a failure.  Done.  Next


I hope you are correct. That will mean none of the other countries with lower rates of deaths/cases will have new surges in the fall and early next year. Unfortunately, this thing isn't close to being over. When it is, we'll have plenty of time to assess successes and failures. The obvious failure is that Sweden and to a greater extent, NYC, definitely messed up with their nursing homes.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> No offense but your arguments tend to not make sense a nd you reference what my argument is that is not true.  I see a rabbit hole that I am not going down.


A better way to say it is it takes me too long to decipher what your point is and I lose patience.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> I hope you are correct. That will mean none of the other countries with lower rates of deaths/cases will have new surges in the fall and early next year. Unfortunately, this thing isn't close to being over. When it is, we'll have plenty of time to assess successes and failures. The obvious failure is that Sweden and to a greater extent, NYC, definitely messed up with their nursing homes.


I am not sure the connection you are trying to make between new surges in the fall and early next year and Sweden.  The countries with lower rates of deaths/cases have implemented various levels of interventions and monitoring.


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## kickingandscreaming (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> One thing is clear though. At about 15-20% penetration the thing does slow down. We don’t know yet why...is it because people freak out and ultra distance, some cross or T cell immunity, weather. We really don’t know. I’m skeptical it’s just because the governor shut indoor dining.


Yes, something is going on. In Sweden, this article estimates R = 0.6 and the testing indicates 17.6% of the 140,000 tested has antibodies. It appears to be some combination of immunity and social distancing.









						Is Sweden’s coronavirus strategy working after all?
					

Infections, hospitalisations and deaths have dropped, but immunity remains a puzzle.




					www.euronews.com


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Herd immunity isn’t really the correct term. At a 20% refusal rate the vaccine isn’t going to get us to herd immunity. One thing is clear though. At about 15-20% penetration the thing does slow down. We don’t know yet why...is it because people freak out and ultra distance, some cross or T cell immunity, weather. We really don’t know. I’m skeptical it’s just because the governor shut indoor dining.
> 
> Was at 4 parks this weekend. 1 in moorpark had full blown adult and kids baseball game complete with uniforms. 1 soccer in Camarillo and 1 Agoura has teams scrimmaging with their full uniforms on (1 shut down and resumed when cops left). But van nuys was nuttiest. Several soccer pickup games, basketball and playground with the tape torn down, a full blown kids baseball game.  Several bbqs.  Cops standing their starring. Of course since exercising no masks...more dangerous than protests....social distancing is dead. Doubt governors puny measures are doing very much at this point.


Apparently I am not the only one to make the link....if you go to the link and click on each line it will show you what order was put in place.









						Home - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
					

Johns Hopkins experts in global public health, infectious disease, and emergency preparedness have been at the forefront of the international response to COVID-19.




					coronavirus.jhu.edu


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## kickingandscreaming (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I am not sure the connection you are trying to make between new surges in the fall and early next year and Sweden.  The countries with lower rates of deaths/cases have implemented various levels of interventions and monitoring.


R is not constant, but you know that. I won't bore you with the details.

Places that had the virus under control recently, are struggling to keep their current outbreak at a low level. In the winter with people inside in heated buildings and not getting sunshine it will be that much more difficult to control. Sweden may be protected by the immunity they have.









						America's Covid response is flawed. But even the gold standard nations are seeing big outbreaks
					

Even countries lauded for their fast and effective responses to COVID-19 are seeing large outbreaks and resurgences of the infection.




					www.wdrb.com


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## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> You constantly speak as an authority in COVID yet I rarely if ever see you present evidence for the absolutes you present.  Therefore, I can't even contemplate what you are saying because they are just words with no meaning.
> 
> I was just at the grocery store in Anaheim and had to wait for my groceries for 15 minutes.  In that time, I noted approximately 75 people come and go and noted only 1 person without a mask and 1 person with it below their nose.  My brother went to the store yesterday and noted all people wore a mask.  Prior to the mandate, there were several people I would see without a mask in the store.  There were several items noted in the pull back and one of them was mandatory masks.


What's so hard to understand? I don't have time to survey the world for you.  But it's clear that at 15-20% something happens and it slows down.  We see it repeatedly in New York, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Belgium.  I'm not presenting an absolute explanation as to why: I've told you my theory....it's math.  But the truth is we don't really know.  There's also no proof that government measures in California are causing the bend in the curve because you are now committing the correlation logical fallacy: correlation is not proof.  It's possible government interventions are helping to ease the curve.  It's also possible that government interventions are just a coincidental timing in response to things getting worse.  Lack of government intervention also doesn't cause an acceleration because Norway and Denmark have no mask mandates but have not had an explosion in cases. You are well versed in the data, but where you struggle is the application of the data (maybe you never took a logic or reasoning course...don't know why you have the blind spot).  

If the mask mandate was effective enough to eliminate things, by your own chart things in Los Angeles would have been under control weeks ago and there wouldn't have been a second outbreak in Japan or the Phillipines.  They may help on the margins, but it's not enough to stop things.  The studies on a marginal basis have been mixed, and those pro assume ideal usage.  My own opinion is they probably help, should be part of the tool kit, but in and of themselves are not enough to bend the curve.  In the park today I saw a bunch of people sitting under trees by themselves wearing a mask....seriously people if you are by yourself and isolated it's not going to help you at all.

If you want to do anecdotes, from my sons' peers experience I'd say about a 1/3 right now are disregarding all social distancing limitations (full blown get togethers even sleepovers, scrimmage games, physical contact including making out), about a 1/3 right now are being cautious (distanced picnics, small limited 1 on one contact), a 1/3 are still hard distancing.  I'm still inclined given what I've seen of the parks, the protests, the beaches, and the kids mingling, the governors order restricting haircuts, restaurants and bars is doing little.  Even at the pub down my own street, it was jammed last night again with 1/3 of the neighborhood very little social distancing going on and everyone having a party.  But I'm also open to the idea it's possible that in combination with mask usage, people being a little more freaked out, the protests dying off a little, and the reclosures of businesses it's helped.  In Florida, Texas and Arizona their restrictions aren't even as severe as ours and they are seeing a similar bend....why....we just aren't sure at this point (but no where in the US outside of maybe NYC is the hellscape that SoCal is right now).


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## Luis Andres (Jul 26, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> @Luis Andres Look at the demographics compared to LA County
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good point. lol. That is an issue in LA. But I’m all for the strategic approach not the hands all one taken. We have enough knowledge now to make better decisions. Hopefully things get reconsidered and safer measures and standards are put into place.


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## dad4 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> What's so hard to understand? I don't have time to survey the world for you.  But it's clear that at 15-20% something happens and it slows down.  We see it repeatedly in New York, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Belgium.  I'm not presenting an absolute explanation as to why: I've told you my theory....it's math.  But the truth is we don't really know.  There's also no proof that government measures in California are causing the bend in the curve because you are now committing the correlation logical fallacy: correlation is not proof.  It's possible government interventions are helping to ease the curve.  It's also possible that government interventions are just a coincidental timing in response to things getting worse.  Lack of government intervention also doesn't cause an acceleration because Norway and Denmark have no mask mandates but have not had an explosion in cases. You are well versed in the data, but where you struggle is the application of the data (maybe you never took a logic or reasoning course...don't know why you have the blind spot).
> 
> If the mask mandate was effective enough to eliminate things, by your own chart things in Los Angeles would have been under control weeks ago and there wouldn't have been a second outbreak in Japan or the Phillipines.  They may help on the margins, but it's not enough to stop things.  The studies on a marginal basis have been mixed, and those pro assume ideal usage.  My own opinion is they probably help, should be part of the tool kit, but in and of themselves are not enough to bend the curve.  In the park today I saw a bunch of people sitting under trees by themselves wearing a mask....seriously people if you are by yourself and isolated it's not going to help you at all.
> 
> If you want to do anecdotes, from my sons' peers experience I'd say about a 1/3 right now are disregarding all social distancing limitations (full blown get togethers even sleepovers, scrimmage games, physical contact including making out), about a 1/3 right now are being cautious (distanced picnics, small limited 1 on one contact), a 1/3 are still hard distancing.  I'm still inclined given what I've seen of the parks, the protests, the beaches, and the kids mingling, the governors order restricting haircuts, restaurants and bars is doing little.  Even at the pub down my own street, it was jammed last night again with 1/3 of the neighborhood very little social distancing going on and everyone having a party.  But I'm also open to the idea it's possible that in combination with mask usage, people being a little more freaked out, the protests dying off a little, and the reclosures of businesses it's helped.


Why is your theory math instead of masks?

Once you get to 15%, a larger percentage of highly connected people are infected.  (Math)

Once you get to 15%, the probability of knowing a severe case goes up.   (Masks)

The two seem to go hand in hand.


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## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Why is your theory math instead of masks?
> 
> Once you get to 15%, a larger percentage of highly connected people are infected.  (Math)
> 
> ...



Because then you'd see the waves bend.  They haven't.  They can all be calculated by a wave function.  It's just a guess on my part, but here's where I diverge with the reports saying the lockdowns are useless: I think they may have an impact on the initial shape of the wave (what they are going to look like) but once in motion the thing is pretty rigid.  Lockdowns would thus be effective if imposed at the beginning of an outbreak in a particular region, but if imposed before the outbreak the only thing they do is push the wave back in time.

If what you say is correct, then by this point California should be more freaked out and locked up.  But it doesn't appear to be (and that's where keepermom and I fall into our war of anecdotes).  From what I'm seeing in the park, people are less freaked out (or at least stable) not more and certainly less freaked out than they were in the initial lockdowns.  A certain segment of the population (even as you see on these boards) is simply over it.  from what I'm hearing anecdotally Arizona, Texas and Florida too, which means they shouldn't decline...but we'll see in a few weeks.  In the end draconian Socal and red states AZ, TX and FL may look similar, but we'll see ....it's too early to tell.


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## blam (Jul 26, 2020)

Honestly, I’m not wearing a mask to protect myself. I do not interact with enough people to warrant it. I wear it to protect the worker serving me.


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## espola (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Because then you'd see the waves bend.  They haven't.  They can all be calculated by a wave function.  It's just a guess on my part, but here's where I diverge with the reports saying the lockdowns are useless: I think they may have an impact on the initial shape of the wave (what they are going to look like) but once in motion the thing is pretty rigid.  Lockdowns would thus be effective if imposed at the beginning of an outbreak in a particular region, but if imposed before the outbreak the only thing they do is push the wave back in time.
> 
> If what you say is correct, then by this point California should be more freaked out and locked up.  But it doesn't appear to be (and that's where keepermom and I fall into our war of anecdotes).  From what I'm seeing in the park, people are less freaked out (or at least stable) not more and certainly less freaked out than they were in the initial lockdowns.  A certain segment of the population (even as you see on these boards) is simply over it.  from what I'm hearing anecdotally Arizona, Texas and Florida too, which means they shouldn't decline...but we'll see in a few weeks.  In the end draconian Socal and red states AZ, TX and FL may look similar, but we'll see ....it's too early to tell.


Tell us more about wave functions.


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## blam (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> If what you say is correct, then by this point California should be more freaked out and locked up.



I have to disagree with this. My example: I was more freaked when it started because never been in this situation. Today, I am not as freaked out because:

1. I have stopped following the news which sounds like a broken record now.
2. I have no control over many of the situation. 
3. I have distracted myself with other interests.

I can just take precautions. If I know someone has Covid, I will still not go within 30 feet of him. 

Is the situation worse today than it started? I know the number of cases will go up over time, but is the number of active cases up? 

Maybe. But even if you tell me they had gone up, there is nothing much I could do. My only avenue is to leave the state but I have not found a good place to go to. Every private school outside the USA still costs an arm and a leg. 

The good thing is my stock portfolio has gone up since the pandemic. We have mastered this. My latest stock insight is that, "Even if one had bought stocks at the height of the 1929 prior to the start of the great depression, with the right balancing, that person would have still made a fortune today."


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## dad4 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Because then you'd see the waves bend.  They haven't.  They can all be calculated by a wave function.  It's just a guess on my part, but here's where I diverge with the reports saying the lockdowns are useless: I think they may have an impact on the initial shape of the wave (what they are going to look like) but once in motion the thing is pretty rigid.  Lockdowns would thus be effective if imposed at the beginning of an outbreak in a particular region, but if imposed before the outbreak the only thing they do is push the wave back in time.
> 
> If what you say is correct, then by this point California should be more freaked out and locked up.  But it doesn't appear to be (and that's where keepermom and I fall into our war of anecdotes).  From what I'm seeing in the park, people are less freaked out (or at least stable) not more and certainly less freaked out than they were in the initial lockdowns.  A certain segment of the population (even as you see on these boards) is simply over it.  from what I'm hearing anecdotally Arizona, Texas and Florida too, which means they shouldn't decline...but we'll see in a few weeks.  In the end draconian Socal and red states AZ, TX and FL may look similar, but we'll see ....it's too early to tell.


I don’t follow you on waves.   I can follow the math if you have it.  Waves make me think Fourier, but I’m sure that isn’t what you mean.

If you mean the shape of the curve, I think you have it backwards.  The shape of the curve seems to be more variable in later months, not earlier.  Some places had a quick run up, then a quick run down.  Some places had a quick run up, then a long slow decay.  Early shapes matched, but later shapes were quite different.   (larger role for behavioral differences between countries.)

If it were all about reaching 20% infection rates, then all countries with mature outbreaks would have similar infection rates.  There is quite a bit of variability.  The Asian countries have mature outbreaks and are nowhere near 20% infection rates.  That ponts to a very large behavioral element.

Both point to masks/distancing instead of covid fatalism.


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## SoccerGuru (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Because then you'd see the waves bend.  They haven't.  They can all be calculated by a wave function.


Hilarious that you tried to use complex mathematics into a soccer forum about politics. I applaud your effort but I would say this is a case where you need to know your audience a little better but I do generally like your posts.


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## Justafan (Jul 26, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Ok so your argument is because you say that there are way more covid deaths, it does not qualify for an example in comparison. I’ll give you that. But how about you go research the number of people that die in the US cause of heart disease. 647,000. 300,000 due to obesity alone. Should we ban all the processed junk food that is creating obesity at enormous rates that we have never seen? My argument is that the population that’s at risk should be identified and protected. They need to quarantine and wait for the vaccine while the rest of us soldiers fight it and create herd immunity. We may get mildly sick, some may even get the flu but when the population at risk returns we are no longer vectors. They can wait for the vaccine or sign a Covid waiver and risk coming out but wearing a red mask so we know to stay away from them to protect them. Common sense: Like done in Sweden. But no we decided to take the communist approach in CA. View attachment 8304View attachment 8304


You see, at least this sounds like a plan. By the way, have you found the captain yet, or is he in a bunker. Maybe he should have followed your plan. Maybe he should have followed my plan. Maybe he shouldn’t have been a pussy and been the 1st one to abandon ship.

Sorry brother, I won’t allow you to pin this on DemoRats or communists in Cali.  None of you have been able to own the fact that this is the biggest and costliest presidential debacle of our lifetime.

like I said the Titanic already hit the iceberg.  Now, it’s only a matter of how this catastrophe will measure in the history books.


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## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

[


dad4 said:


> If it were all about reaching 20% infection rates, then all countries with mature outbreaks would have similar infection rates.  There is quite a bit of variability.  The Asian countries have mature outbreaks and are nowhere near 20% infection rates.  That ponts to a very large behavioral element.
> 
> Both point to masks/distancing instead of covid fatalism.


If you look at the Asian countries, though, they've all had repeated outbreaks (except for Taiwan, which sealed themselves off, and China/Vietnam, which used the extreme tactics) precisely because they aren't at 15-20%.  Japan had a second wave despite masks (if masks work, they wouldn't have...mask might still have a marginal utility but not enough macro utility to stop a Japanese outbreak).  South Korea has an ongoing slow burn (despite the most sophisticated T&T and enforced quarantines).  Hong Kong is in its third wave.  Singapore is in its second again despite its vaunted T&T.  The Philippines has one of the most robust mask requirements in the world yet is still ongoing.  Sweden though does not (and does some real stupid stuff) and it's receded now....why?


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> What's so hard to understand? I don't have time to survey the world for you.  But it's clear that at 15-20% something happens and it slows down.  We see it repeatedly in New York, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Belgium.  I'm not presenting an absolute explanation as to why: I've told you my theory....it's math.  But the truth is we don't really know.  There's also no proof that government measures in California are causing the bend in the curve because you are now committing the correlation logical fallacy: correlation is not proof.  It's possible government interventions are helping to ease the curve.  It's also possible that government interventions are just a coincidental timing in response to things getting worse.  Lack of government intervention also doesn't cause an acceleration because Norway and Denmark have no mask mandates but have not had an explosion in cases. You are well versed in the data, but where you struggle is the application of the data (maybe you never took a logic or reasoning course...don't know why you have the blind spot).
> 
> If the mask mandate was effective enough to eliminate things, by your own chart things in Los Angeles would have been under control weeks ago and there wouldn't have been a second outbreak in Japan or the Phillipines.  They may help on the margins, but it's not enough to stop things.  The studies on a marginal basis have been mixed, and those pro assume ideal usage.  My own opinion is they probably help, should be part of the tool kit, but in and of themselves are not enough to bend the curve.  In the park today I saw a bunch of people sitting under trees by themselves wearing a mask....seriously people if you are by yourself and isolated it's not going to help you at all.
> 
> If you want to do anecdotes, from my sons' peers experience I'd say about a 1/3 right now are disregarding all social distancing limitations (full blown get togethers even sleepovers, scrimmage games, physical contact including making out), about a 1/3 right now are being cautious (distanced picnics, small limited 1 on one contact), a 1/3 are still hard distancing.  I'm still inclined given what I've seen of the parks, the protests, the beaches, and the kids mingling, the governors order restricting haircuts, restaurants and bars is doing little.  Even at the pub down my own street, it was jammed last night again with 1/3 of the neighborhood very little social distancing going on and everyone having a party.  But I'm also open to the idea it's possible that in combination with mask usage, people being a little more freaked out, the protests dying off a little, and the reclosures of businesses it's helped.  In Florida, Texas and Arizona their restrictions aren't even as severe as ours and they are seeing a similar bend....why....we just aren't sure at this point (but no where in the US outside of maybe NYC is the hellscape that SoCal is right now).


I can tell you have done a lot of thinking on this subject.  I am looking for evidence that supports your assertions.  Please provide.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

SoccerGuru said:


> Hilarious that you tried to use complex mathematics into a soccer forum about politics. I applaud your effort but I would say this is a case where you need to know your audience a little better but I do generally like your posts.


Yeah.  I know.  Some people clutch onto that blue pill real hard.  Most people are not ready to be unplugged.


----------



## timbuck (Jul 26, 2020)

Can we get back to talking about kids playing soccer in OC?  Or San Diego?  Or some guys backyard where nobody can see?  Or if dads can organize pickup games but still pay coaches?


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I can tell you have done a lot of thinking on this subject.  I am looking for evidence that supports your assertions.  Please provide.


Which assertion.  The 15-20%? I told you go look at the curve of every country.  It's what happens.  It's a fact.  I don't have the time to do it for you, and frankly if you were really interested you'd go out and do it yourselves. To compile it would take a few days and blow up this forum...not worth the effort to pursuade you since your mind is blue pilled anyways....you'll fight anything that tries to unplug you.

The fact that it's mathematical? Don't have any.  It's a guess.  I think it might also be weather dependent, or a combination of both.  We don't know.  We do know there's some kind of dark matter.  Might be government policy as well, but given the different responses in Socal v. Fl/Tx/Az unlikely.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> You constantly speak as an authority in COVID yet I rarely if ever see you present evidence for the absolutes you present.  Therefore, I can't even contemplate what you are saying because they are just words with no meaning.
> 
> I was just at the grocery store in Anaheim and had to wait for my groceries for 15 minutes.  In that time, I noted approximately 75 people come and go and noted only 1 person without a mask and 1 person with it below their nose.  My brother went to the store yesterday and noted all people wore a mask.  Prior to the mandate, there were several people I would see without a mask in the store.  There were several items noted in the pull back and one of them was mandatory masks.


That’s because she’s a doctor, a lawyer, a research scientist, an executive, an educator, a lab technician, a manufacturer......

In other words jack of all trades master of none.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 26, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> You make way too much sense, just stop.


Where’s that pussy Stephen Miller? Tell him that if he had any balls he would’ve rounded up all the illegal aliens working at every meat packing plant and agricultural field across the nation. They’ve been the only ones working full time since March.

He still has time to do it, please tell him, I really want to see what happens.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 26, 2020)

SoccerGuru said:


> Hilarious that you tried to use complex mathematics into a soccer forum about politics. I applaud your effort but I would say this is a case where you need to know your audience a little better but I do generally like your posts.


Then you’re impressed too easily my friend.  You need to see through bull shit and somebody trying WAY too hard to sound like she’s an expert.  Sounds like somebody has a complex of some kind to try that hard.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Then you’re impressed too easily my friend.  You need to see through bull shit and somebody trying WAY too hard to sound like she’s an expert.  Sounds like somebody has a complex of some kind to try that hard.



Hey I don't know if I'll get everything right, and I'm certainly NOT an expert (and in this case sort of happy I'm not....you've missed the point that if I were an expert I'd be far less effective because part of their problem is not being able to see the forest through the trees).  I do have a rare ability to see the larger picture of things and to process information quickly (I won't tell you my IQ but that also most certainly helps).  But again, I stand by my track record in all this....it certainly is better than many so-called experts including Fauci.

I frankly don't care who I impress...I grew out of that a long time ago...that's not my motivating factor which you've also fundamentally misunderstood.  It's that I'm fighting the hysteria which is so prevailing and is directly damaging our kids in irreparable ways.  If it weren't for the kids, frankly I wouldn't give a damn.  But here's something to blow your mind...who has the bigger complex: the one trying too hard, or the one that seems so compelled to point out the first person is trying too hard.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 26, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Where’s that pussy Stephen Miller? Tell him that if he had any balls he would’ve rounded up all the illegal aliens working at every meat packing plant and agricultural field across the nation. They’ve been the only ones working full time since March.
> 
> He still has time to do it, please tell him, I really want to see what happens.


Just think of all the money we would have if all the illegals were not here?
Just imagine how much smarter our kids would be if teachers didn’t have to teach illegals English before they can teach them math.
Just imagine what getting rid of all the illegals and their families would do to the obesity epidemic.
Just imagine getting seen at the ER without having to wait behind Jose and Maria who’s healthcare I am funding.
What a wonderful world.


----------



## espola (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Which assertion.  The 15-20%? I told you go look at the curve of every country.  It's what happens.  It's a fact.  I don't have the time to do it for you, and frankly if you were really interested you'd go out and do it yourselves. To compile it would take a few days and blow up this forum...not worth the effort to pursuade you since your mind is blue pilled anyways....you'll fight anything that tries to unplug you.
> 
> The fact that it's mathematical? Don't have any.  It's a guess.  I think it might also be weather dependent, or a combination of both.  We don't know.  We do know there's some kind of dark matter.  Might be government policy as well, but given the different responses in Socal v. Fl/Tx/Az unlikely.


Nonsense.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 26, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Just think of all the money we would have if all the illegals were not here?
> Just imagine how much smarter our kids would be if teachers didn’t have to teach illegals English before they can teach them math.
> Just imagine what getting rid of all the illegals and their families would do to the obesity epidemic.
> Just imagine getting seen at the ER without having to wait behind Jose and Maria who’s healthcare I am funding.
> What a wonderful world.


No brother, you’d be hungry.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I think it might also be weather dependent


Yes, this makes a lot of sense to me as a significant factor. I believe NYC got hit with the perfect storm of unfortunate decision making and "perfect" weather for the virus. I have to wonder if the urban areas of Oregon and Washington are going to enter a bad time for the virus come November - February. If you look at Oregon's excess deaths, you'd never know anything was going on. Washington had a bit of a bump, but really looked about equivalent to the flu season of 2017. If you look at the states that have been going through a tough time now (AZ, TX, FL), everyone there has been inside in AC for at least 2 months.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Hey I don't know if I'll get everything right, and I'm certainly NOT an expert (and in this case sort of happy I'm not....you've missed the point that if I were an expert I'd be far less effective because part of their problem is not being able to see the forest through the trees).  I do have a rare ability to see the larger picture of things and to process information quickly (I won't tell you my IQ but that also most certainly helps).  But again, I stand by my track record in all this....it certainly is better than many so-called experts including Fauci.
> 
> I frankly don't care who I impress...I grew out of that a long time ago...that's not my motivating factor which you've also fundamentally misunderstood.  It's that I'm fighting the hysteria which is so prevailing and is directly damaging our kids in irreparable ways.  If it weren't for the kids, frankly I wouldn't give a damn.  But here's something to blow your mind...who has the bigger complex: the one trying too hard, or the one that seems so compelled to point out the first person is trying too hard.


No, I think you’re trying too hard. You try to come off very authoritative on too many subjects. Put it this way, why did you try to impress the lawyer, EOTL, with the legal term “summary judgment.” You we’re trying to impress him were you not? The question is why? Do you know how dumb that sounds to a lawyer?

And I was right, you do have some inferiority complex, anybody who counters using their alleged “IQ” is weak. Stick to substance.

Marginal utility, macro utility, slow burn, give me a break.  You’re track record v. Fauci’s, in terms of what? Narcissistic  personality disorder, that’s my diagnosis.  I took a psychology class once,I should know.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Which assertion.  The 15-20%? I told you go look at the curve of every country.  It's what happens.  It's a fact.  I don't have the time to do it for you, and frankly if you were really interested you'd go out and do it yourselves. To compile it would take a few days and blow up this forum...not worth the effort to pursuade you since your mind is blue pilled anyways....you'll fight anything that tries to unplug you.
> 
> The fact that it's mathematical? Don't have any.  It's a guess.  I think it might also be weather dependent, or a combination of both.  We don't know.  We do know there's some kind of dark matter.  Might be government policy as well, but given the different responses in Socal v. Fl/Tx/Az unlikely.


You have not provided the causal link between the 15-20% and the drop off.   If there is evidence to support that, please provide.   Just because the rooster crows in the morning doesn't mean it causes the sunrise.


----------



## espola (Jul 26, 2020)

Justafan said:


> No, I think you’re trying too hard. You try to come off very authoritative on too many subjects. Put it this way, why did you try to impress the lawyer, EOTL, with the legal term “summary judgment.” You we’re trying to impress him were you not? The question is why? Do you know how dumb that sounds to a lawyer?
> 
> And I was right, you do have some inferiority complex, anybody who counters using their alleged “IQ” is weak. Stick to substance.
> 
> Marginal utility, macro utility, slow burn, give me a break.  You’re track record v. Fauci’s, in terms of what? Narcissistic  personality disorder, that’s my diagnosis.  I took a psychology class once,I should know.


Time to make a batch of popcorn.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

Justafan said:


> No, I think you’re trying too hard. You try to come off very authoritative on too many subjects. Put it this way, why did you try to impress the lawyer, EOTL, with the legal term “summary judgment.” You we’re trying to impress him were you not? The question is why? Do you know how dumb that sounds to a lawyer?
> 
> And I was right, you do have some inferiority complex, anybody who counters using their alleged “IQ” is weak. Stick to substance.
> 
> Marginal utility, macro utility, slow burn, give me a break.  You’re track record v. Fauci’s, in terms of what? Narcissistic  personality disorder, that’s my diagnosis.  I took a psychology class once,I should know.


He he. Thanks for this.  You gave me a good laugh to end my night.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> You have not provided the causal link between the 15-20% and the drop off.   If there is evidence to support that, please provide.   Just because the rooster crows in the morning doesn't mean it causes the sunrise.


I'm not trying to prove a causal link.  I'm only saying it exists.  We don't know why and I even conceded that point.  My theory is only a guess.

So why does it bother you too much?  Again, I think it's the blue pill, which is strange coming from the parent as a goalkeeper.  Being the parent of a goalkeeper means exposing our children to danger (much more so than field players) and not just only physical but also emotional danger and the dangers of being toyed with at that position.  I opposed my kid's pick of the goalkeeper slot....it's why I'm such an unlikely warrior for my position....looking at me and my history you'd think I would take the position that we should all be locked away until a vaccine.  We are such contradiction, you and I.

Funny you are raising this argument when it's the same thing you did with government intervention ----> drop off.  I have made no such assertion of causation.  I only say when we hit 15-20% there is a drop off and then I ask why.  From the pro-lockdown side, I have yet to hear an explanation why Sweden (despite its boneheaded policy) has resolved to where it is today...it shouldn't if unlimited exponential growth were a fact.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Yeah.  I know.  Some people clutch onto that blue pill real hard.  Most people are not ready to be unplugged.


You know the Matrix is just a movie?


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I'm not trying to prove a causal link.  I'm only saying it exists.  We don't know why and I even conceded that point.  My theory is only a guess.
> 
> So why does it bother you too much?  Again, I think it's the blue pill, which is strange coming from the parent as a goalkeeper.  Being the parent of a goalkeeper means exposing our children to danger (much more so than field players) and not just only physical but also emotional danger and the dangers of being toyed with at that position.  I opposed my kid's pick of the goalkeeper slot....it's why I'm such an unlikely warrior for my position....looking at me and my history you'd think I would take the position that we should all be locked away until a vaccine.  We are such contradiction, you and I.
> 
> Funny you are raising this argument when it's the same thing you did with government intervention ----> drop off.  I have made no such assertion of causation.  I only say when we hit 15-20% there is a drop off and then I ask why.  From the pro-lockdown side, I have yet to hear an explanation why Sweden (despite its boneheaded policy) has resolved to where it is today...it shouldn't if unlimited exponential growth were a fact.


Bother me?  No....just wanting to hear support for your guesses.  Since you don't have any, the discussion is complete.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> You know the Matrix is just a movie?


It's a great one, though, and an insightful one about human nature.  Plus Keanu was in his hey day then....he was a cutie!

Why does this bother you so much?


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Bother me?  No....just wanting to hear support for your guesses.  Since you don't have any, the discussion is complete.


Clearly it does, or you wouldn't have thrown the Matrix crack.    

And again, for the parent of a goalkeeper it's surprising.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Which assertion.  The 15-20%? I told you go look at the curve of every country.  It's what happens.  It's a fact.  I don't have the time to do it for you, and frankly if you were really interested you'd go out and do it yourselves. To compile it would take a few days and blow up this forum...not worth the effort to pursuade you since your mind is blue pilled anyways....you'll fight anything that tries to unplug you.
> 
> The fact that it's mathematical? Don't have any.  It's a guess.  I think it might also be weather dependent, or a combination of both.  We don't know.  We do know there's some kind of dark matter.  Might be government policy as well, but given the different responses in Socal v. Fl/Tx/Az unlikely.


So, it is always 15-20%, except for China, Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Norway, Germany, Finland, and any other country that doesn‘t fit your narrative?  What you have is a partial pattern, but that is all.  there are dozens of countries who got the virus under control well before 15%.

The fatalism argument is not just false.  It is also dangerous.  Why wear a mask, distance, or wash your hands if the magic 15% is going to happen no matter what?

It is much more accurate to say that infections rise until the disease can‘t reach enough new victims.  In some countries, that happens at 15-20%.  In other countries, it happens at 1-2% because they actually fight the disease: mask, distance, test, and trace.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 26, 2020)

Justafan said:


> No brother, you’d be hungry.


You DO know the immigrants waiting in line can work those same fields, right?  And they wouldn't have to do it for $5 per day.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 26, 2020)

Justafan said:


> You see, at least this sounds like a plan. By the way, have you found the captain yet, or is he in a bunker. Maybe he should have followed your plan. Maybe he should have followed my plan. Maybe he shouldn’t have been a pussy and been the 1st one to abandon ship.
> 
> Sorry brother, I won’t allow you to pin this on DemoRats or communists in Cali.  None of you have been able to own the fact that this is the biggest and costliest presidential debacle of our lifetime.
> 
> like I said the Titanic already hit the iceberg.  Now, it’s only a matter of how this catastrophe will measure in the history books.


That's because it wasn't.  Record high economy and employment.  Only you fucking libtards blame Trump for a worldwide pandemic.  Nothing else has worked.  You can't possibly embarrass yourselves any worse after Mueller's investigation.  Fucking go for it.  There's no dignity left to damage.

Our kids aren't playing soccer because you losers don't have any Stormys left in your basement.  Just one demented pedo.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 26, 2020)

espola said:


> Time to make a batch of popcorn.


Whip yourself up a Massengill and water, too.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 26, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> You DO know the immigrants waiting in line can work those same fields, right?  And they wouldn't have to do it for $5 per day.


Hey dumbass, there’s never been a line to do America’s dirty work. Never!


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 26, 2020)

dad4 said:


> So, it is always 15-20%, except for China, Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Norway, Germany, Finland, and any other country that doesn‘t fit your narrative?  What you have is a partial pattern, but that is all.  there are dozens of countries who got the virus under control well before 15%.
> 
> The fatalism argument is not just false.  It is also dangerous.  Why wear a mask, distance, or wash your hands if the magic 15% is going to happen no matter what?
> 
> It is much more accurate to say that infections rise until the disease can‘t reach enough new victims.  In some countries, that happens at 15-20%.  In aother countries, it happens at 1-2% because they actually fight the disease: mask, distance, test, and trace.


Another films: "I grow tired of asking this so it will be the last time".  The other countries you cite have not hit their 15-20% threshold.  Therefore you don't see it at work.   Taking them each at a time:

China: Surely you don't advocate the harsh measures undertaken by China?  In Hong Kong, where there are limits still on the ability of China to use its techniques, and where western press still has a presence, they are on their 3 wave.  This despite a universal mask requirement, test and trace, and severe limitations.  That said...they may have hit the 20% marker in Wuhan...we simply don't know due to the Chinese government's propensity to falsify information.  But, few people (outside of yourself) have said a Chinese style system should be adopted here.

Japan: Universal mask usage has been unable to contain the virus and they are now in their second wave and second round of lockdowns.  Mind you, I think masks helps, but the Phillipinnes also shows the limits of mask usage.

Korea: Actually shows the limits of test and trace.  Despite one of the best test and trace systems, not to mention enforced quarantines, they haven't been able to contain the virus and have periodic outbreaks...like a fire you have to constantly try to smother out but are unable to.

New Zealand: Island...got lucky no superspreader event early....didn't have very many tests per capita but deployed what they had early wisely.  Sealed themselves off from the rest of the world and as an island they are able to effectively do that (our southern outbreak is partially fueled by the southern border).

Finland and Norway: Have no mask requirement and the lowest levels of mask usage in the western world. 

Germany is probably the most interesting case.  If my lockdown theory is correct, they just timed it perfectly.  They got lucky with their lack of superspreader events.  Weather may be a factor.  They have less testing capacity than the US and face mask usage is certainly less compliant than SoCal.  Even so, it's experts in the last couple days have warned that like France, they are seeing indications of a second wave, particularly in the east which is less densely populated and wasn't hit as hard the first time round.

Spain: toughest lockdown in the western world and universal mask usage (and no stupid bandanas or cloth masks allowed like here).  It's actually the best case against the 15-20%.  The rebuttal is that the outbreak is currently mostly in the Catalonia area where the initial wave wasn't as severe.  But if Spain accelerates again it will effectively kill the idea there's a breaker at 15-20% (which leaves only weather as a likely indicator, given the Swedish experience, but it would also explain what's happening in Germany, Finland and Norway).  Either way, Spain stands as a testament that short of a perpetual lockdown, there's not much anyone can do....because if it's out there Spain has done it.

Now this is just opinion but I actually think clinging to false hope is more dangerous.  It leads us to do truly stupid stuff.....like when at least 1/3 of our population has decided social distancing is over and they're not going to do it anymore and completely fill up various parks this weekend with full contact, punishing kids (and not businesses like Downtown Disney or Knotts) by taking their sports and schooling away.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 26, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> That's because it wasn't.  Record high economy and employment.  Only you fucking libtards blame Trump for a worldwide pandemic.  Nothing else has worked.  You can't possibly embarrass yourselves any worse after Mueller's investigation.  Fucking go for it.  There's no dignity left to damage.
> 
> Our kids aren't playing soccer because you losers don't have any Stormys left in your basement.  Just one demented pedo.


Another example of failing to look in the mirror. No, we don’t blame him for the pandemic, just the miserable aftermath, you know, the one we’re all in.

“Nothing else has worked, what the F**k does that mean?

Hey, I’m still waiting for those 3 innocent White toddlers.  Tik Tok.....Tik Tok......Tik Tok.....


----------



## Calisoccer11 (Jul 27, 2020)

Thank you to @Grace T. and @Keepermom2 for the interesting and spirited discussions.  I enjoy reading your posts and opinions as they are some of the more intelligent posts on this forum lately.  Best of luck and best wishes!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 27, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Another example of failing to look in the mirror. No, we don’t blame him for the pandemic, just the miserable aftermath, you know, the one we’re all in.
> 
> “Nothing else has worked, what the F**k does that mean?
> 
> Hey, I’m still waiting for those 3 innocent White toddlers.  Tik Tok.....Tik Tok......Tik Tok.....


"Just the miserable aftermath."  You mean the marching in streets?  Rioting?  Looting?  All taking place in liberal run cities?  You losers calling Trump a "dictator" when he takes charge and a "pussy" when he gave the power to governors?  And my how your libtard governors have fucked it up.  

What does it mean?  It means you sorry motherfuckers tried everything to get rid of Trump and nothing worked.  Not Stormy... not Mueller... not Stormy 2.0... not Russia... not all the books from fired employees... nothing.  Now you clowns are down to a worldwide pandemic and out of time.  And you think America is stupid enough to believe it's Trump's fault.  That the economy and jobs dropping are because of him and not the Kung Flu.

And yeah, Justapuss... still waiting for names of all those innocent black people killed by police.  You have any?  Tick tock, douchebag.


----------



## Chalklines (Jul 27, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> [
> 
> 
> If you look at the Asian countries, though, they've all had repeated outbreaks (except for Taiwan, which sealed themselves off, and China/Vietnam, which used the extreme tactics) precisely because they aren't at 15-20%.  Japan had a second wave despite masks (if masks work, they wouldn't have...mask might still have a marginal utility but not enough macro utility to stop a Japanese outbreak).  South Korea has an ongoing slow burn (despite the most sophisticated T&T and enforced quarantines).  Hong Kong is in its third wave.  Singapore is in its second again despite its vaunted T&T.  The Philippines has one of the most robust mask requirements in the world yet is still ongoing.  Sweden though does not (and does some real stupid stuff) and it's receded now....why?


But kids don't party hard in Asia like we do in the states.


Sheriff Joe said:


> Just think of all the money we would have if all the illegals were not here?
> Just imagine how much smarter our kids would be if teachers didn’t have to teach illegals English before they can teach them math.
> Just imagine what getting rid of all the illegals and their families would do to the obesity epidemic.
> Just imagine getting seen at the ER without having to wait behind Jose and Maria who’s healthcare I am funding.
> What a wonderful world.


Welcome to north Texas


----------



## dad4 (Jul 27, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Another films: "I grow tired of asking this so it will be the last time".  The other countries you cite have not hit their 15-20% threshold.  Therefore you don't see it at work.   Taking them each at a time:
> 
> China: Surely you don't advocate the harsh measures undertaken by China?  In Hong Kong, where there are limits still on the ability of China to use its techniques, and where western press still has a presence, they are on their 3 wave.  This despite a universal mask requirement, test and trace, and severe limitations.  That said...they may have hit the 20% marker in Wuhan...we simply don't know due to the Chinese government's propensity to falsify information.  But, few people (outside of yourself) have said a Chinese style system should be adopted here.
> 
> ...


When you have a list of exceptions this long, maybe your universal 15% isn’t as universal as you think?

Your exceptions are mostly accurate, but they could be accurate here, too.  WE could do massive contact tracing like Korea.  WE could have a high rate of mask usage like Japan or Spain.  WE could enforce distancing like Germany.  

Instead, we argue over whether it is ok for Walmart to enforce masks.  By now, Walmart should be handing out free N-95 masks as you enter the store, and my tax dollars should be paying for them to be made in Minnesota.

You won’t find me in favor of opening casinos and amusement parks while closing t-ball and skate parks.  I agree with you that we have gone way overboard in opening up high density, high cost venues.


----------



## espola (Jul 27, 2020)

Calisoccer11 said:


> Thank you to @Grace T. and @Keepermom2 for the interesting and spirited discussions.  I enjoy reading your posts and opinions as they are some of the more intelligent posts on this forum lately.  Best of luck and best wishes!


I have been reading them also.  I find one factually impressive, and the other grammatically correct.


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## Grace T. (Jul 27, 2020)

dad4 said:


> When you have a list of exceptions this long, maybe your universal 15% isn’t as universal as you think?
> 
> Your exceptions are mostly accurate, but they could be accurate here, too.  WE could do massive contact tracing like Korea.  WE could have a high rate of mask usage like Japan or Spain.  WE could enforce distancing like Germany.
> 
> ...


Well, we don't know simply because those other areas haven't hit 15%.  I made the best argument against the 15%: Spain....if in the coming weeks Spain accelerates past 15% we will know that breaker isn't very strong and there's something else causing the slow down (maybe the TB vaccine, maybe weather....we don't know).  Right now the outbreak in Spain is centered on areas that don't have 15% penetration.  Further, Italy with a very similar weather pattern and a south where things didn't get too bad isn't following the same pattern.

You and I actually probably see eye to eye on a lot of what we should be doing....I just disagree that it will have the effect you think it will....it will help (masks helped in Japan) but it's not enough to stop what's going on or keep anyone safe and if we are going to listen to the experts, it's not an excuse to keep kids out of school or distanced sports.


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## Grace T. (Jul 27, 2020)

espola said:


> I have been reading them also.  I find one factually impressive, and the other grammatically correct.


nonsense


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## kickingandscreaming (Jul 27, 2020)

dad4 said:


> When you have a list of exceptions this long, maybe your universal 15% isn’t as universal as you think?
> 
> Your exceptions are mostly accurate, but they could be accurate here, too.  WE could do massive contact tracing like Korea.  WE could have a high rate of mask usage like Japan or Spain.  WE could enforce distancing like Germany.


This would take an overwhelming consensus and I don't understand why anyone believes that consensus is something that would occur in the US. Structurally, there are states right. Even during WW II and there was a significant portion of the population that didn't want to get involved. According to one recent poll, over 50% (assuming no overlap) of the people believe executives should be FIRED for supporting either Trump (31%) or Biden (22%). It is my belief that if aliens invaded, 20% wouldn't believe it and at least that percent would side with the aliens.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 27, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Yes, this makes a lot of sense to me as a significant factor. I believe NYC got hit with the perfect storm of unfortunate decision making and "perfect" weather for the virus. I have to wonder if the urban areas of Oregon and Washington are going to enter a bad time for the virus come November - February. If you look at Oregon's excess deaths, you'd never know anything was going on. Washington had a bit of a bump, but really looked about equivalent to the flu season of 2017. If you look at the states that have been going through a tough time now (AZ, TX, FL), everyone there has been inside in AC for at least 2 months.


When looking for a causal link, you have to look at the totality of the variables not just isolate the ones that make sense to your opinion ignoring all other variables.  I have provided the link to John Hopkins site that shows the State case maps that includes the dates of State orders since the Pandemic began.  To ignore that and the scientific evidence regarding the weather impact is to ignore significant variables and makes any hypothesis that doesn't include them mute.


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## kickingandscreaming (Jul 27, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> When looking for a causal link, you have to look at the totality of the variables not just isolate the ones that make sense to your opinion ignoring all other variables.


Understood, but there are some things going on in terms of virus transmission that aren't explained or predicted well. I am only suggesting that it may be a larger factor and explain some of the "unexplained" realities.


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## dad4 (Jul 27, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Well, we don't know simply because those other areas haven't hit 15%.  I made the best argument against the 15%: Spain....if in the coming weeks Spain accelerates past 15% we will know that breaker isn't very strong and there's something else causing the slow down (maybe the TB vaccine, maybe weather....we don't know).  Right now the outbreak in Spain is centered on areas that don't have 15% penetration.  Further, Italy with a very similar weather pattern and a south where things didn't get too bad isn't following the same pattern.
> 
> You and I actually probably see eye to eye on a lot of what we should be doing....I just disagree that it will have the effect you think it will....it will help (masks helped in Japan) but it's not enough to stop what's going on or keep anyone safe and if we are going to listen to the experts, it's not an excuse to keep kids out of school or distanced sports.


To be fair, the 15-20% line may only work because people get scared.  Give them time to forget their fear, the masks go back on the chin and rates may go right past 15% and settle at a higher level.

Spain isn’t the only place that will tell us.  AZ, TX, and FL are also in a spot to peak, dip, relax behavior, and push past 15% this fall.  Italy, Sweden, and France could do it, too.

I don’t think distancing and universal masks would eradicate the disease.   But proper behavior could get us back to where San Jose was in April.  5-10 daily cases per million residents and a 2% positive test rate.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 27, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Understood, but there are some things going on in terms of virus transmission that aren't explained or predicted well. I am only suggesting that it may be a larger factor and explain some of the "unexplained" realities.


At the beginning of the Pandemic everyone was analyzing a moving target.  As time has progressed and historical data is available worldwide, the peer reviewed scientific data by non governmental agencies is adding up in great quantities.  The "unexplained" realities is becoming less every day.


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## Justafan (Jul 27, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> "Just the miserable aftermath."  You mean the marching in streets?  Rioting?  Looting?  All taking place in liberal run cities?  You losers calling Trump a "dictator" when he takes charge and a "pussy" when he gave the power to governors?  And my how your libtard governors have fucked it up.
> 
> What does it mean?  It means you sorry motherfuckers tried everything to get rid of Trump and nothing worked.  Not Stormy... not Mueller... not Stormy 2.0... not Russia... not all the books from fired employees... nothing.  Now you clowns are down to a worldwide pandemic and out of time.  And you think America is stupid enough to believe it's Trump's fault.  That the economy and jobs dropping are because of him and not the Kung Flu.
> 
> And yeah, Justapuss... still waiting for names of all those innocent black people killed by police.  You have any?  Tick tock, douchebag.


Yep, another miserable day for you.  Thank your captain.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 27, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Yep, another miserable day for you.  Thank your captain.


Good comeback.  Well thought out and really kicked my teeth in, Justapuss.


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## blam (Jul 27, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> That said...they may have hit the 20% marker in Wuhan...we simply don't know due to the Chinese government's propensity to falsify information


I found this to be the opposite. The media and the US government is at present engaged in a propaganda war against China. Very likely the numbers coming from China is correct. Most of the time, the China government facts while it is slow, has turned out to be correct. We can start with the Tiananmen Massacre which the media reported deaths of thousands. Turns out nobody died there on that morning. Deaths were from street protests, not from the clearing of the square. Lately, there have been reports of Uigur concentration camps. See, it has been debunked:


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## Sheriff Joe (Jul 27, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> But kids don't party hard in Asia like we do in the states.
> 
> Welcome to north Texas


North? I did not know that, south for sure, sad. Frisco is a cool place.


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## espola (Jul 27, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> nonsense


I was being kind to you, since "I don't have the time"* to itemize all your factual errors and logical fallacies.

*Who am I quoting here?


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## dad4 (Jul 27, 2020)

blam said:


> I found this to be the opposite. The media and the US government is at present engaged in a propaganda war against China. Very likely the numbers coming from China is correct. Most of the time, the China government facts while it is slow, has turned out to be correct. We can start with the Tiananmen Massacre which the media reported deaths of thousands. Turns out nobody died there on that morning. Deaths were from street protests, not from the clearing of the square. Lately, there have been reports of Uigur concentration camps. See, it has been debunked:


Where are you from, blam?


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## ToonArmy (Jul 27, 2020)

Orange County soccer mom trying to make it to Oceanside practice on time


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## Sheriff Joe (Jul 27, 2020)

ToonArmy said:


> Orange County soccer mom trying to make it to Oceanside practice on time


Asian?


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## rainbow_unicorn (Aug 1, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Asian?


Old man?


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