# Tryout for Flight 2 team only?



## Gee (Mar 29, 2018)

If you're coming from a Flight 2 team and trying to go to a new club and get accepted on Flight 1 is this possible? 

From our (my child and I) experience it looks like the popular clubs have only one Flight 1 team and perhaps two Flight 2 teams and to get on the Flight 1 team you either:

1. Need to have been playing on the Flight 2 team one or more years at the same club.
2. Are coming from another club where you were on the Flight 1 team.
3. Know some coach or and team manager from the Flight 1 team that refers your child.
4. Have been recommended from your Flight 2 coach to move onto the Flight 1 team.

I've seen super skilled kids get asked to practice and scrimmage with Flight 2 teams is this about filling the roster and money with some of these clubs because there's no openings on the Flight 1 team roster?

But now what if you don't get on the Flight 1 team but are Flight 1 quality should you continue to play at a Flight 2 level where your child is saying it's too easy and feels bored with the slow paced tempo?

In my experience and this is sad for me to say but I've seen really talented kids that I thought were beyond real with skills that played at a very fast tempo stay on these Flight 2 teams and then a year or so later I see them play and they have lost all the talent that I saw in the previous years and are now playing as defenders or some other position that I would have never imagined to see them play.

And on the other hand I've seen kids on the Flight 1 team look like Flight 3 quality so I'm confused...


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## mirage (Mar 29, 2018)

Gee said:


> ..........to get on the Flight 1 team you either:
> 
> 1. Need to have been playing on the Flight 2 team one or more years at the same club.
> 2. Are coming from another club where you were on the Flight 1 team.
> ...


You forgot 5. Have real talent and abilities.

I have never seen a coach turn away real top tier level talent away.  Been at club soccer, two kids, for 10 years.  I have seen a coach not take a real talented kid because the parent's reputation preceded the player (as well as dropping a kid because of the parents).

Are there politics and favoritism - yes, but that's life.


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## jrcaesar (Mar 29, 2018)

Without knowing your child's age or where you are talking about, then #5 above is the answer. 

Really talented kids play defender, by the way.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Mar 29, 2018)

The known versus the unknown.  The flight 1 team has kids, and parents, and the coach knows what to expect.  What do you and your kid bring to the table?  Something markably better than what the coach already has?  I tell my daughter all of the time, that since she wasn't identified early she will have to work twice as hard for 1/2 the credit.  Be the grinder.  Show up early.  Stay late.  Work on weaknesses.  Be the kid that the coach HAS to take; they will make room - for the right kid (and parent).  Good luck.


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## Mystery Train (Mar 29, 2018)

mirage said:


> I have never seen a coach turn away real top tier level talent away.


I've seen it on occasion.  Sometimes a player just doesn't fit the physical profile for a certain coach.  Not all coaches define "top tier" talent in the same way.  One of my kid's former teammates was a willowy, toothpick legged dynamo, but the coach didn't think she was physical enough.  She found a coach who didn't care about that and played at a very high level.   What I've seen more frequently than that is this:  you have a b-team player who is just as capable as an incumbent a-teamer at his/her position, but not obviously _better.  _In that scenario, there's no incentive for the coach to bring up the b-teamer because it's going to cut into playing time for the incumbent a-teamer and piss off the parents.  So that b-teamer might have to find another club/coach that has a need at that position with their top flight team in order to get their shot at being on a top-tier team. 

As for these . . .


Gee said:


> 1. Need to have been playing on the Flight 2 team one or more years at the same club.
> 2. Are coming from another club where you were on the Flight 1 team.
> 3. Know some coach or and team manager from the Flight 1 team that refers your child.
> 4. Have been recommended from your Flight 2 coach to move onto the Flight 1 team.


#1. I've only ever seen this happen once.  Clubs don't operate this way.  If they want to add talent to their top tier team, they will recruit away from a rival before promoting from within.  Every day.  All day.  And twice on Sunday if the club has the word "development" prominently displayed on their website.
#2. & #3. Sure, that does happen. 
#4. LOL.  The A team coach gives zero f#*ks what the B team coach recommends.  Always.


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## Surf Zombie (Mar 29, 2018)

“I see them play and they have lost all the talent that I saw in the previous years and are now playing as defenders or some other position that I would have never imagined to see them play.”

The good players should only striker and center mid?  Show me a team that doesn’t have strong players on defense and I’ll show you a team that is likely getting rocked week after week. 

You can hide weak kids on the wing, not in the back.


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## Gee (Mar 29, 2018)

Mystery Train said:


> I've seen it on occasion.  Sometimes a player just doesn't fit the physical profile for a certain coach.  Not all coaches define "top tier" talent in the same way.  One of my kid's former teammates was a willowy, toothpick legged dynamo, but the coach didn't think she was physical enough.  She found a coach who didn't care about that and played at a very high level.   What I've seen more frequently than that is this:  you have a b-team player who is just as capable as an incumbent a-teamer at his/her position, but not obviously _better.  _In that scenario, there's no incentive for the coach to bring up the b-teamer because it's going to cut into playing time for the incumbent a-teamer and piss off the parents.  So that b-teamer might have to find another club/coach that has a need at that position with their top flight team in order to get their shot at being on a top-tier team.
> 
> As for these . . .
> 
> ...


Yep same thing I really don’t like seeing the b-teamer situation when I see this I feel sad for the child and realize the greed and politics that must be happening. Another thing is these clubs are not doing the right thing there’s never going to be any team chemistry amongst the players just a revolving door and rich parents gossiping on the field about all the players.. Good grief!


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## Gee (Mar 29, 2018)

Surf Zombie said:


> “I see them play and they have lost all the talent that I saw in the previous years and are now playing as defenders or some other position that I would have never imagined to see them play.”
> 
> The good players should only striker and center mid?  Show me a team that doesn’t have strong players on defense and I’ll show you a team that is likely getting rocked week after week.
> 
> You can hide weak kids on the wing, not in the back.


I wasn’t saying anything directly negative about being a defensive player and sorry some have taken me the wrong way what I meant to say is I’ve seen kids with fast feet, strong legs and fast on the wing doing all the right things and their hard work goes unnoticed as wingers hard work usually does and as result they will repeat Flight 2 but this time in a different position that’s not helping their progress as a player.


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## jrcaesar (Mar 29, 2018)

Four of my favorite posters have made good comments above. Can't hammer home the point any more ...


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## bruinblue14 (Mar 29, 2018)

Gotta remember too that some kids that look like superstars in Flt 2 sometimes don’t look the same when put up against Flt 1 players. But I do agree, unless you’re a unicorn, it’s hard to break in from the outside from a Flt 2 team and that coaches would rather go with the known than the unknown for the middle of the pack players.


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## Multi Sport (Mar 29, 2018)

jrcaesar said:


> Without knowing your child's age or where you are talking about, then #5 above is the answer.
> 
> Really talented kids play defender, by the way.


Too funny. One of my original post on the old forum was just that. You build a team from the backline up.


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## Multi Sport (Mar 29, 2018)

Gee said:


> If you're coming from a Flight 2 team and trying to go to a new club and get accepted on Flight 1 is this possible?
> 
> From our (my child and I) experience it looks like the popular clubs have only one Flight 1 team and perhaps two Flight 2 teams and to get on the Flight 1 team you either:
> 
> ...


Hey Gee... I've read a bunch of your post and they all seem to have the same message/questions. Don't overthink this, seriously. If you do you can drive yourself crazy. 

You have been given plenty of solid advice. In the end do whats best for your kid. You can never go wrong with that..


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## Tomnchar (Mar 30, 2018)

A strong coach can take a strong flight 2 player and develop them into a flight 1 player. I have watched our coach do it from both inside and outside of the club.


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## Sheriff Joe (Mar 30, 2018)

bruinblue14 said:


> Gotta remember too that some kids that look like superstars in Flt 2 sometimes don’t look the same when put up against Flt 1 players. But I do agree, unless you’re a unicorn, it’s hard to break in from the outside from a Flt 2 team and that coaches would rather go with the known than the unknown for the middle of the pack players.


The difference between top flight 1 teams/players and bottom flight 1 teams/players is pretty significant.


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## timbuck (Mar 30, 2018)

I’ve seen a few teams promise kids/parents “we’ll be Flight 1” and then have a terrible season.


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## Keepermom2 (Mar 30, 2018)

I don't know what age your child is but my DD is 11 and I determined that all Flight 1 and Flight 2 team's development are not created equal.   Just look at State and National cup results.  Some call themselves Flight 1 or Flight 2 and they were demolished early on or they played down a level and didn't make it very far.  That tells me who is truly a Flight 1 or Flight 2 team or a Flight 3 team.  For me I am less concerned about what Flight my DD plays on and more concerned about her development and her enjoyment of that development.  My daughter surprisingly cares less about the social aspect and more about feeling achievement.  From what you wrote, your daughter sounds similar.  Of course my daughter is a Goalkeeper so playing on the winning team at this age is not her motivation as it equates to less action for her.   Who she plays against is the most important for her development.  My friend who's daughter played ECNL all years and was recruited by some top Colleges and told me when my daughter was a baby that she was going to be athletic (how did he know..LOL), told me to just have my daughter play at a local club that doesn't cost a fortune and focus on good private training for now because you can't rely on development from clubs.  I guess that would be a good idea for your DD too because the more she stands out, the higher chance she will be recruited by a stronger team that she will be happy with the challenge.  I recently surmised that the whole "Club" scenario doesn't make sense so the less we expect from it, the better off we are.  My recommendation for what it is worth is to try and find a team where your daughter will be happy rather than what Flight she is on.  If she needs challenge to be happy than focus on the top Flight 2 teams as well as Flight 1 teams.  It takes time to find that fit.  Good luck!  I feel your frustration for what it is worth!


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## Bananacorner (Mar 30, 2018)

Mystery Train said:


> I've seen it on occasion.  Sometimes a player just doesn't fit the physical profile for a certain coach.  Not all coaches define "top tier" talent in the same way.  One of my kid's former teammates was a willowy, toothpick legged dynamo, but the coach didn't think she was physical enough.  She found a coach who didn't care about that and played at a very high level.


I have seen this quite a few times.  Top tier teams that play a certain style aren't interested in a smaller, and/or not as fast, and/or less aggressive or physical player that does have excellent skill, passing, and IQ.  But then that player shouldn't be considering this team probably anyway -- it isn't a good fit for anyone.  OR another team with a certain style isn't as interested in the talented (fast, aggressive) forward who rams it into the middle over and over and loses the ball even when their team mates are making runs and getting open.  You could argue this is coachable, and I agree, but I have seen kids rejected for their style of play, even when they show some talent.  

BUT, if they are a unicorn, then no coach will reject them, no matter how "off style" they are...


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## True love (Mar 30, 2018)

Forget about the flight 1 and flight 2 teams, as long has your kids is playing and having fun, that’s what matter, because is not going to get any easier, is still a long long way to go, especially the Development Academy, just take it step by step slowly, you will be there in time.


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## Gee (Mar 30, 2018)

[QUOTE=" My recommendation for what it is worth is to try and find a team where your daughter will be happy rather than what Flight she is on.  If she needs challenge to be happy than focus on the top Flight 2 teams as well as Flight 1 teams.  It takes time to find that fit.  Good luck!  I feel your frustration for what it is worth![/QUOTE]

True that! My kid is 10 and I know that she does not want to be on the team where the kids are chit chatting and playing with their hair and not looking like they want to be there at all, play at a super slow tempo, and so far all the Flight 2 teams we have either trained with or seen and heard about are like this and sorry for making generalization but this has been our experience... Finding a team.. that's what we have been doing and yes it's taking lots of time but we are learning a lot about the way things are set up and why things are the way they are on many of these clubs. What I'm starting to realize is if your kid has the skill sets and can play at the Flight 1 level very well but is "unknown" and regardless that your kid might be a shiny unicorn then perhaps maybe best to wait until late in the process like tryout when team is desperately looking like May or June is the time when these teams get nervous if they do not have a full roster even the parents on these teams start to feel strange because they see other girls from the other teams coming to help out the team that does not have enough players on the roster.  As for now we are playing Academy Futsal and pick up games and lots of privates which to us is the time to sharpen up skills and progression. Thanks for all the advice and feedback here!


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## Gee (Mar 30, 2018)

Bananacorner said:


> I have seen this quite a few times.  Top tier teams that play a certain style aren't interested in a smaller, and/or not as fast, and/or less aggressive or physical player that does have excellent skill, passing, and IQ.  But then that player shouldn't be considering this team probably anyway -- it isn't a good fit for anyone.  OR another team with a certain style isn't as interested in the talented (fast, aggressive) forward who rams it into the middle over and over and loses the ball even when their team mates are making runs and getting open.  You could argue this is coachable, and I agree, but I have seen kids rejected for their style of play, even when they show some talent.
> 
> BUT, if they are a unicorn, then no coach will reject them, no matter how "off style" they are...


The "unicorn" is in the eye of the beholder and even if your kid is that shiny unicorn you might still be asked to play down at the Flight 2 level based on the Flight 1 roster being already full and parents do not want their kid to be benched so some unicorn unknown kid can grab up the fame. That's the reality of this USA soccer club culture it's mostly just greed and money and parents running the monkey show trying to be Team Managers so they can have an upper hand on the club and be closer with the control freak coaches and what not.


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## Mystery Train (Mar 30, 2018)

Gee said:


> The "unicorn" is in the eye of the beholder and even if your kid is that shiny unicorn you might still be asked to play down at the Flight 2 level based on the Flight 1 roster being already full and parents do not want their kid to be benched so some unicorn unknown kid can grab up the fame. That's the reality of this USA soccer club culture it's mostly just greed and money and parents running the monkey show trying to be Team Managers so they can have an upper hand on the club and be closer with the control freak coaches and what not.


I don't think you've ever seen what Bananacorner (and many posters here) refer to as a "unicorn."  We're talking about a true one-percenter.  That kid that _dominates_ the field and often dominates players one or two age groups up.  Nobody turns that kid down and bumps them to the flight 2 team.  Do good players who are capable of playing flight 1 or ECNL or DA get overlooked?  Yes.  Especially late bloomer kids at younger ages who will one day physically surpass some of the early puberty beneficiaries.   But that's not a unicorn.  There are thousands of kids in your kids' age group in SoCal alone that fit that description = capable of playing flight 1.  You probably need to reset your expectations for you child.  It's unhealthy and detrimental to her development if you think she's a unicorn.  EVEN IF SHE IS A UNICORN, THAT SORT OF MENTALITY FROM YOU WON'T HELP HER.  

Look, I get it.  I've been there.  My kid's been rejected or ignored by coaches before.  I'm as cynical as anyone on this board about club soccer and the greed and politics and sleazy DoC's.  Yes, it can be a degrading experience sometimes.  But, dude, seriously.  Put the axe and the grinder away.  Find yourself a good coach that your kid wants to play for and who wants your kid.  Stop worrying about the flight level.  If she isn't challenged, have her play up a year on an older flight 2 team.  My kid did that for a year and then ended up as a starter on a great flight 1 team and coach.  There are good coaches out there at every level.  You just have to get out there and find them.  

And let your kid dictate what _she _wants.  It's her trip, not yours.  Otherwise, you might become a control fre- . . .  uh, nevermind.


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## Gee (Mar 30, 2018)

Mystery Train said:


> I don't think you've ever seen what Bananacorner (and many posters here) refer to as a "unicorn."  We're talking about a true one-percenter.  That kid that _dominates_ the field and often dominates players one or two age groups up.  Nobody turns that kid down and bumps them to the flight 2 team.  Do good players who are capable of playing flight 1 or ECNL or DA get overlooked?  Yes.  Especially late bloomer kids at younger ages who will one day physically surpass some of the early puberty beneficiaries.   But that's not a unicorn.  There are thousands of kids in your kids' age group in SoCal alone that fit that description = capable of playing flight 1.  You probably need to reset your expectations for you child.  It's unhealthy and detrimental to her development if you think she's a unicorn.  EVEN IF SHE IS A UNICORN, THAT SORT OF MENTALITY FROM YOU WON'T HELP HER.
> 
> Look, I get it.  I've been there.  My kid's been rejected or ignored by coaches before.  I'm as cynical as anyone on this board about club soccer and the greed and politics and sleazy DoC's.  Yes, it can be a degrading experience sometimes.  But, dude, seriously.  Put the axe and the grinder away.  Find yourself a good coach that your kid wants to play for and who wants your kid.  Stop worrying about the flight level.  If she isn't challenged, have her play up a year on an older flight 2 team.  My kid did that for a year and then ended up as a starter on a great flight 1 team and coach.  There are good coaches out there at every level.  You just have to get out there and find them.
> 
> And let your kid dictate what _she _wants.  It's her trip, not yours.  Otherwise, you might become a control fre- . . .  uh, nevermind.



This unicorn is beginning to sound like some very rare Pokémon! Honestly I have seen some kids that attract attention by doing crazy juggling tricks and have great first touch and can shoot but this dominates thing I would have to see an example video of as I’m not sure what is exactly meant by this..?


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## Mystery Train (Mar 30, 2018)

Gee said:


> This unicorn is beginning to sound like some very rare Pokémon! Honestly I have seen some kids that attract attention by doing crazy juggling tricks and have great first touch and can shoot but this dominates thing I would have to see an example video of as I’m not sure what is exactly meant by this..?


Yeah, it's called Goalazoroar. It's the evolved form of Goalodon.  It does maximum damage to opponents in every phase of the game.

But seriously, you will know it when you see it.  Even people who don't know soccer can recognize it.  I assume you know the definition of "dominate" and have also watched some sporting competition on TV at some point in life, right?  Dominance looks the same at every level of sport.

Look up old YouTube videos from youth games of current college players like Fleming, DeMelo, Ashley Sanchez, or the like.  I got to watch Sanchez at a tournament once several years ago.  I didn't know her number or what she looked like, I'd just heard about her, I think this was u16.  I showed up and watched for five minutes and was like, "Oh, there she is." Ever see a defender who locks down the other team's best player for the whole game and then takes the ball at the end of the game for a 50 yard dribbling exhibition and scores the winner?  That's dominating. I've seen one unicorn in person at the u littles level.  A GK in a U11 game who was so dominant that I looked up her team roster just to know her name.  She's now a U16 who just committed to a PAC 12 powerhouse.  

The term unicorn just indicates a rare player who has exceptional skill, speed, AND size/strength.  I suggest you take your daughter to the top flight games of some of the most highly ranked teams in an age group a few years up.  Go to an ECNL or DA game.  You'll surely see a unicorn or two.  But you'll also see some players that you think, "My kid could do that one day."  And then see if she's inspired to work even harder.  

Good luck to you and your players.


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## Keepermom2 (Mar 30, 2018)

Mystery Train said:


> You'll surely see a unicorn or two. But you'll also see some players that you think, "My kid could do that one day." And then see if she's inspired to work even harder.


Such good advice!  Just going to games where the Keepers were considered the best for my daughter's age group totally motivated my DD and boosted her confidence.


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## outside! (Mar 30, 2018)

Mystery Train said:


> Look up old YouTube videos from youth games of current college players like Fleming, DeMelo, Ashley Sanchez, or the like.


Add Caterina Macario to the search and you will find videos like this.


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## El Clasico (Mar 30, 2018)

Is it just me or is she playing what you guys call "daddy ball"?


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## focomoso (Apr 3, 2018)

bruinblue14 said:


> Gotta remember too that some kids that look like superstars in Flt 2 sometimes don’t look the same when put up against Flt 1 players.


This was my first thought as well. It's hard to evaluate talent in isolation. Some kids who may seem like world beaters against slower opponents just can't keep up as the speed of the game increases. The only way to compare is to put them on the field at the same time and see what happens. Not saying that this is necessarily the case here, but it may be.


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## Primetime (Apr 3, 2018)

Gee said:


> If you're coming from a Flight 2 team and trying to go to a new club and get accepted on Flight 1 is this possible?
> 
> From our (my child and I) experience it looks like the popular clubs have only one Flight 1 team and perhaps two Flight 2 teams and to get on the Flight 1 team you either:
> 
> ...


A big problem is that every parent/player that's been on a Flight 2 team longer than 6 months now automatically thinks they're a Flight 1 player.   They think it's like school, just finish 4th grade and you go right to 5th, then 6th and before you know it your playing in college.   It doesn't work that way.   There's hundreds of kids playing at every level that just won't be capable of playing at the next level, whatever that might be, and there's nothing wrong with that.   Not every kid who plays for 3,4,5,6 Years ends up a Flight 1 or top level player.    Doesn't mean they should stop or be discouraged or anything.   When looking for options for you kid to play decide on some where that they can love the game whatever level that is.   They need to be challenged yes but not surrounded by 10-12 kids that are all better than yours.   Parents think that well if my kid plays with the best they'll be the best,  that argument partially holds water but no one on here would think "well gee let me move my kid from 4th grade straight to 7th grade and they'll be more advanced learning with smarter kids".   But yet that's how ridiculous it sounds trying to make an argument for some kids to to be on certain teams.   You forget they'd miss valuable lessons in 5th,and 6th grade that they'll need for 7th.  Same applies for soccer.   Play level/title doesn't mean crap.   Find a team where your kid fits in and can enjoy a great sport.   If they're talented they'll get there one way or another.


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## MWN (Apr 3, 2018)

Gee said:


> If you're coming from a Flight 2 team and trying to go to a new club and get accepted on Flight 1 is this possible?


Absolutely.  A good program will have many levels of play and use the top team as a carrot.  But getting on that Flight 1 team can be difficult if there are well entrenched players that are "known" quantities.  Many coaches are also a bit territorial and don't want to lose their talented kids.

Best bet is to find a program with a Flight 1 team and a Flight 2 team coached by the same coach.  This coach will be much more likely to move players up and down based on skill and need.



Gee said:


> From our (my child and I) experience it looks like the popular clubs have only one Flight 1 team and perhaps two Flight 2 teams and to get on the Flight 1 team you either:
> 
> 1. Need to have been playing on the Flight 2 team one or more years at the same club.
> 2. Are coming from another club where you were on the Flight 1 team.
> ...


You and the kid need to look at it with open eyes and have open dialog with the coach.  Is the kid developing "all facets" of their game?  Can they play defender, mid, striker, wing and depending on age and size sit between the sticks?  Are they only a 1 trick pony?

One of the things Flight 1 and beyond coaches look at is the psychological maturity of the player and their understanding of the game.  Many youth players don't take the time to understand the other positions.  Flight 1 physical talent with Flight 2 tactical understanding is still a Flight 2 player.

As a coach, if I have a spot open the position goes to the kid that fills a need.  My first choice is the kid that can play multiple positions well.  My second choice is the one trick pony (assuming I have a need).  Obviously, if I have a need on the defensive line, and a defensively weak "striker" that can't break my starting lineup, I'm passing.



Gee said:


> In my experience and this is sad for me to say but *I've seen really talented kids that I thought were beyond real with skills that played at a very fast tempo stay on these Flight 2 teams and then a year or so later I see them play and they have lost all the talent that I saw in the previous years and are now playing as defenders *or some other position that I would have never imagined to see them play.
> 
> And on the other hand I've seen kids on the Flight 1 team look like Flight 3 quality so I'm confused...


Like the others, I cringed when I read the above.  I've seen your follow up posts backing away from the "defender" comment.  Let me add this.

Youth soccer players are kids.  What this means is that every year is a new year for many of these kids.  Puberty can be a cruel, cruel, cruel thing to many ... especially girls.  That super-talented, quick 10 year old becomes a slow, meandering reserve player after puberty.  That overweight slow player becomes an elite college bound athlete after puberty.  On the boys side its a little less pronounced because the changes often add to athletic prowess instead of get in the way, like it does with girls.  That said, I have witnessed the fastest boy on the field become one of the slowest boys on the field, because puberty kicked in for his teammates, but not him.

You need to look at this through the eyes of a coach, not a parent and based on your comment above and develop a more sophisticated understanding of "talent."  What is perceived by many as "talent" is actually just selfish play that disrupts what a good coach is trying to accomplish.  Unfortunately, most parents don't understand this and place too high a value on the kid that scores the goal versus the kid that stopped the attack through proper defensive technique.

That kid that is super quick, has 1-1 moves that break ankles and scores 3-4 goals a game at U10 is a major liability at U15/16 Flight 1.  The real talent are the kids that understand the game, have excellent defensive skills, don't lose the ball on the attack and don't put themselves in positions where they have to beat 3 players to get out of trouble.  They make themselves available, hustle, work "smart" on the field and play unselfishly. 

Next time you look at a team at the youth level, look at it through the eyes of the coach:

*Best and Smartest Athletes*: Positions in the center of the field (Stopper, Sweeper, Defensive Mid, Attacking Mid, Striker and most importantly Goalkeeper).  Those kids will also rotate between the back, middle and top of the field in practice and in youth games.

*Strong Athletes*: Defenders and Outside Mids.

*Weakest Talent*: Winger/Forwards.  This is where the one-trick ponies go.  That fast kid that can't defend, is selfish but great 1-1 moves, poor decision making but a strong leg.  The funny thing is most parents don't appreciate that coaches hide their less talented kids up top under the philosophy that the kid may not help us, but they are not going to hurt us.

Obviously, at Flight 3 there is more weak talent than Flight 1 and programs like ECNL and DA don't really have Weak Talent.

In sum, the best opportunity for exists in programs where the coaching staff has no vested interest in keeping a kid on the Flight 2 team.  Those are generally programs with a strong DOC that mandates coaches rotate kids up and down based on team need, which will generally be found in programs where the Flight 1 coach also coaches or has a strong interest in the lower level teams.


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## MWN (Apr 3, 2018)

@Gee,
I forgot to add that you should also find a club with teams in the Flight 2 and Flight 1 range in your age group and that have Flight 3 and Flight 2 teams in the next age group up.

My son has Flight 1 talent at GK, but plays up an age group with the Flight 2 team because that is where the opportunity is.  When he plays with his age group his comments are that the shots are so much slower and weaker.  This year he was the only freshman to be called up to the varsity team.  For his position (GK), playing and practicing with the older kids on a weaker team means he gets many more shots than if he was on the Flight 1 team.


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## Mystery Train (Apr 3, 2018)

MWN said:


> Absolutely.  A good program will have many levels of play and use the top team as a carrot.  But getting on that Flight 1 team can be difficult if there are well entrenched players that are "known" quantities.  Many coaches are also a bit territorial and don't want to lose their talented kids.
> 
> Best bet is to find a program with a Flight 1 team and a Flight 2 team coached by the same coach.  This coach will be much more likely to move players up and down based on skill and need.
> 
> ...


This is the kind of clear logic and detailed explanation that parents (especially new ones) are often starved for in the club soccer world.    Sign me up coach!


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## Lurker (Apr 3, 2018)

MWN said:


> Ab
> 
> In sum, the best opportunity for exists in programs where the coaching staff has no vested interest in keeping a kid on the Flight 2 team.  Those are generally programs with a strong DOC that mandates coaches rotate kids up and down based on team need, which will generally be found in programs where the Flight 1 coach also coaches or has a strong interest in the lower level teams.


I really found this post informative.  Legit question here...not trying to stir things up...when woul a DOC not have a vested interest in the Flight 2 team...if they take away the best players on Flight 2 then the Flight 2 team can lose players because they start to lose more games which means the club loses money. Also, losing teams don’t attract players.   The DOC’s motivation is the  numbers.   What am I missing?


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## mirage (Apr 4, 2018)

MWN said:


> ..........Next time you look at a team at the youth level, look at it through the eyes of the coach:
> 
> *Best and Smartest Athletes*: Positions in the center of the field...
> 
> ...


So this is a very defensive minded perspective.  In terms of generalization, I find comments like these to do more disservice than good, since it the game is played to win, and not to a draw.

If one place the weakest talent as attacking players, the team cannot score.  If you cannot score, you cannot win.  You can certainly draw at best, but not win.

While the comments about putting the best and smartest athletes in the middle may sound intuitive, in practice, the game will become very one-dimensional, if done so as stated.  A good coach will create asymmetry against the opponent's strengths and weaknesses, and exploit them by placing smart and best players accordingly.

As for weakest talent not defending and placed as wingers so they cannot hurt the team, well, my sense is that at a higher levels, if a player doesn't know how to defend, the player will not  be on the field.  Defedning starts with the top line (forwards) and on the opponents 1/3.  As an example, if a team plays 4-3-3, the winger must defend against attacking wing-backs step for step.  If you place a non-defending player on outside, that's a horrible mismatch that a coach cannot take.

Last, one cannot forget ideal and real life.  Like all things in life, there are politics and nothing is equal.  There are plenty of weak talent on the DA and ECNL rosters.  In other words, there are plenty of Flight 1/Premier players that are better than those on DA/ECNL rosters.  Choices made by both clubs and players for various reasons to do so.


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## MA0812 (Apr 4, 2018)

I have rarely ever seen a coach turn away top talent unless as someone mentioned above the parent's reputation is one that nobody wants to have to deal with or manage. There are plenty of solid flight 2 teams that do well and still get to showcases if the goal is exposure. There is a difference however in the physical play, skills, and speed of play, and the speed at which players can execute those skills between top flight 1 and top flight 2 teams. Its easy to watch a flight one game with two good teams and say my flight 2 player is as good or better because both teams are at the same level and ability so the level often times is noticeable but there is a difference on the field. If the current club's flight 1 roster is full and the player truly does need to move then seeking out other opportunities may be the best decision for everyone. Guesting is a way to get exposure to other teams as well as a feel for the level of play. There is no shortage of teams to choose from in SoCal.


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## MA0812 (Apr 4, 2018)

Primetime said:


> A big problem is that every parent/player that's been on a Flight 2 team longer than 6 months now automatically thinks they're a Flight 1 player.   They think it's like school, just finish 4th grade and you go right to 5th, then 6th and before you know it your playing in college.   It doesn't work that way.   There's hundreds of kids playing at every level that just won't be capable of playing at the next level, whatever that might be, and there's nothing wrong with that.   Not every kid who plays for 3,4,5,6 Years ends up a Flight 1 or top level player.    Doesn't mean they should stop or be discouraged or anything.   When looking for options for you kid to play decide on some where that they can love the game whatever level that is.   They need to be challenged yes but not surrounded by 10-12 kids that are all better than yours.   Parents think that well if my kid plays with the best they'll be the best,  that argument partially holds water but no one on here would think "well gee let me move my kid from 4th grade straight to 7th grade and they'll be more advanced learning with smarter kids".   But yet that's how ridiculous it sounds trying to make an argument for some kids to to be on certain teams.   You forget they'd miss valuable lessons in 5th,and 6th grade that they'll need for 7th.  Same applies for soccer.   Play level/title doesn't mean crap.   Find a team where your kid fits in and can enjoy a great sport.   If they're talented they'll get there one way or another.


Nice analogy! Cal South which is arguable one of the biggest talent pools in the country has roughly 12,000 girls for the 2004 birth year. To say there is competition to play at the higher level is an understatement.


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## MWN (Apr 4, 2018)

Lurker said:


> I really found this post informative.  Legit question here...not trying to stir things up...when woul[d] a DOC not have a vested interest in the Flight 2 team...if they take away the best players on Flight 2 then the Flight 2 team can lose players because they start to lose more games which means the club loses money. Also, losing teams don’t attract players.   The DOC’s motivation is the  numbers.   What am I missing?


Good question Lurker.  We can restate the issue/questions as how the business of youth soccer screws up the business of developing players and how parents (and some of our posters) misplace being on a winning over development.

*7v7, 9v9 and 11 v 11 - Have Different Considerations*
Taking a step back, the OP divulged her kid is 10 so she has a U10/U11 player (7v7 or 9v9). This is a development level (so sayeth US Soccer) and the singular goal of the club and the parents should be development of the players (at this level) and educating parents as to why we are putting development over wins.  This is why we don't have standings at this level.

We also know that since the question references "Flight 1" v. "Flight 2" we are in the SCDSL and not CSL, thus, we have the unrestricted luxury of moving players up and down to support development.  For anybody that has watched (in my case ref'ed about 30 games) of 9v9 soccer last year, we also appreciate the the skills gap (its really a skills gap and not so much a talent gap) for the youngers can be striking between the various flights because many Flight 2 teams are filled with varying degrees of skill level and many of the kids on those team are there because there parents are living their sporting lives through the kids.

So when @mirage and @Runuts disagrees, just know that they are most likely forgetting the context of the question which is a U10/U11 player.  Showcases don't have relevance at this age group and we are still a few years off.  Politics, on the other hand, always have relevance and puberty is just about getting ready to kick in for the girls, with some starting and most still a few years off.

*There are basically 2 Different Club/Docs operating in SoCal*
To your point, on the surface the DOC should have an interest in all teams, but depending on the Club and structure of the various teams you will see varying levels control from the DOC.  The larger clubs may have multiple DOCs, with each assigned to a region/program.  

The Architect - These DOCs run the club according to a program and have all the teams follow the same blueprint because the master plan dictates that the top level team is for the top talent.  The DOC is engaged with all the teams and is seen at practices and at games.  Typically these are the clubs with ECNL and DA teams.  These programs tend to have a more holistic approach and "buy in" to US Soccer's mandate of focusing on developing player versus winning games.  The coaches tend to stay with the programs longer.

The Collective - Other DOCs basically provide a structure which allows a bunch of independent operators to run their own little businesses.  They are hands off and the term DOC is more of an honorary title because the don't really direct anything.  These teams are competitive within the program and you will sometimes two teams compete in the same flight (and A and B) with different coaches.  Both styles have their advantages and disadvantages  The good, is often you find some very good coaches that simply chaff at The Architect's program, the bad is you find some horrible coaches purely in it for the money.

To make matter confusing, various clubs will have "franchises" and "company stores."  The franchises will be operating in a Collective like manner and the company stores operated by The Architect.  

*Understand the purpose of the flights at the U-Little level*
In an ideal world at the 7v7 and 9v9 level (again the context of the OP's question) they are all focused on development of the individual player and fielding a "winning" team is merely a byproduct:

Bronze/Flight 3 is purely development where the goal should be to move players to Flight 2 when they are ready.  Playing time should supersede the drive to win and every player should play at least 50% of the game.

Silver/Flight 2 should also be focused primarily on development, but winning the game is more important, but still in the backseat.  Playing time will get out of balance, 60/40 for the starters and reserve players.  Compared to U15 where the reserves are playing about 20% to 25% of the game.

Flight 1 - Fielding a competitive team is the primary goal, playing time becomes more limited, but we are still strongly emphasizing development and playing correctly.  Playing time is now 70/30 for the starters v. reserve players.  Compared that to U15 you may have some reserve players that don't play but 5% to 10% of the game, if at all.

*How does a DOC make the numbers?*
The DOC makes his/her numbers because they offer a development path and/or program for all.  Appreciate that there are many different types of soccer players and parents.  Some are hyper focused on winning and exposure and will chase the DA path, whereas others are there because its fun and good exercise and are happy as clams to be playing on a Bronze/Flight 3 team that is competitive, and the rest fall somewhere between the two.  The DOC pitches are varied to the parents depending on the program, local competition and talent pool.

As we all know, many parents are unrealistic saps that view soccer as a path to a college education.  Others know full well their kid doesn't have the talent to play for the National Team, let alone the NCAA, but are happy to fork over the fees because the kid is having "fun," getting good exercise, and limiting "screen time" while on the pitch.

A good DOC/program has something for everybody, but at the end of the day, if the program is focusing on developing the players, winning is just a natural extension of that goal and the parents/customers will come.


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## MWN (Apr 4, 2018)

mirage said:


> So this is a very defensive minded perspective.  In terms of generalization, I find comments like these to do more disservice than good, since it the game is played to win, and not to a draw.
> 
> If one place the weakest talent as attacking players, the team cannot score.  If you cannot score, you cannot win.  You can certainly draw at best, but not win.
> 
> ...


Your comment has most relevance at the older level (11v11) Flight 1/Premier/NPL/CRL/ECNL/DA, but the context of the OP's question is at the 7v7 and 9v9 age group.  This is a development level and at this level the "game IS [NOT] played to win," rather, its played to "have fun" and learn, which is why US Soccer mandates that this age group not keep standings and only play in tournaments in a showcase format (i.e. no winner).  Individual player development is the primary goal.

That said, the best teams will have good talent and no weak players and be able to switch style of play and personnel to throw off their opponent and exploit weaknesses.  Run a 4-4-2 then switch it up to a 3-4-3 or 3-4-2-1 or 3-5-2 or whatever formation will dictate success.  Press the right side then switch to the left because they are weak and easily exploited.

Alas, at the 7v7 and 9v9 level we are more focused on skill/individual development because without technique there are no tactics.


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## 46n2 (Apr 4, 2018)

Id go to practice and see where my kid(s) fit in, and let them prove themselves on the field.* Unknown or not*  Coaches will see how your DD/BB compare to current roster.  If the kid(s) are good and theres room for one more then you have a good chance of making the F1 team this time of year, if its late in the year and theres no room, and your options are slim due to timing then play F2. 

Its April and IMO teams are pretty much set beside the crazy parents that like to shop , you see plenty of them , their the ones that jump team to team but have 30 excuses as to why their kid(s) play on a different team each year.

One of my kids is F1, one of my kids isnt, no big deal.....we are all having alot of fun and enjoying the game--*Most important aspect is --PLAYING TIME--your child will not get better by sitting on the bench .
*
Unicorn or not, whatever that may be.......you rarely see a good soccer player not where they need to be , back to the parent being the problem and shopping around for sponsorship or what not......

Take Maggie or Johnny out , have them play as hard as they can , and have fun.  

Short answer-Yes you can go from Flight 2 to Flight 1 in a new club, happens all the time.


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## Keepermom2 (Apr 4, 2018)

Primetime said:


> A big problem is that every parent/player that's been on a Flight 2 team longer than 6 months now automatically thinks they're a Flight 1 player.


Funny...this is what big business is faced with today (i.e. college grad starts work and 6 months later they think they should advance.  Imagine what this does to their bosses who are Baby Boomers or the beginning of Generation X.  And by the way, they also expect a trophy (i.e. spot bonus) just for doing their job!)


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## Keepermom2 (Apr 4, 2018)

MWN said:


> how parents (and some of our posters) misplace being on a winning over development.
> 
> Flight 1 - Fielding a competitive team is the primary goal, playing time becomes more limited, but we are still strongly emphasizing development and playing correctly.  Playing time is now 70/30 for the starters v. reserve players.  Compared that to U15 you may have some reserve players that don't play but 5% to 10% of the game, if at all.


Finding quality development on a consistent basis is hard to find both in a club and private training for a goalkeeper.  For my U13 player in fall, we found a team with great training both for her development on the field and in the goal (which I thought I could only get one or the other).  I feel like it is the holy grail of development for my daughter and what she needs for development right now.  I asked my daughter if she sat on the bench at games would that be a problem and she said no because she loved the training she was getting.  I figure if she gets quality training and enjoys what she is doing for 3 or 4 days a week at the age of 11/12, I don't care if she gets to play in a game for now.  Who knows, it could ignite a desire to work hard to earn a spot like we did in the old days and teach her a work ethic.  LOL  I like to present the worst case scenario to her to make sure she can accept that and she said she can and was enthusiastic about that answer.   I feel like it is better to train with a quality team even if that means you don't get play time than it is to train with a lesser team with more play time in a game for now at this age.  Of course her end goal is to play soccer in college and she loves training more than games right now anyway!


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## mirage (Apr 4, 2018)

MWN said:


> Your comment has most relevance at the older level (11v11) Flight 1/Premier/NPL/CRL/ECNL/DA, but the context of the OP's question is at the 7v7 and 9v9 age group.  This is a development level and at this level the "game IS [NOT] played to win," rather, its played to "have fun" and learn, which is why US Soccer mandates that this age group not keep standings and only play in tournaments in a showcase format (i.e. no winner).  Individual player development is the primary goal.
> 
> That said, the best teams will have good talent and no weak players and be able to switch style of play and personnel to throw off their opponent and exploit weaknesses.  Run a 4-4-2 then switch it up to a 3-4-3 or 3-4-2-1 or 3-5-2 or whatever formation will dictate success.  Press the right side then switch to the left because they are weak and easily exploited.
> 
> Alas, at the 7v7 and 9v9 level we are more focused on skill/individual development because without technique there are no tactics.


I don't understand your reply.  Learning to perform under pressure and learning to win are very vital components of personal development.

My kids are older now that they started playing 11v11 at U12.  It was 8v8 at U10, so the new format of keeping smaller field until older is not something I can comment on.  That said, there are some good coaches out there teaching basic tactics to kids at U8 on.  These kids, by the time they reach U12 are head and shoulder above those that have not been exposed to tactical knowledge.  The basic tactical knowledge is above and beyond the technical skills.  Fundamentally, its always about individual development at any age.  

All that said, my original reply is still valid for younger.  Your perspective is very defensive biased and hiding the weakest players outside is doing that player disservice.  Since its all about development, teach them how to play rather than hiding them on the field so that they just get their playing time.  Give them opportunity at different positions, especially when they are younger.  At older, they do need to specialize as there are so many nuance and intricacy to playing different positions.

As 46n2 noted, gotta play on the field.  Completely agree with that statement.  One of the key things we've done with our kids is to put them always in a situation to succeed on the field.  We never cared what tier our kids played at.  We just cared that our kids are in the top 1/3 to 1/2 of the squad on the team to ensure minutes on the field.   It just so happened that our older kid was DA caliber player now playing in college, and the younger started off by playing in Flight 3.  The younger is playing Flight 1 at U16 now, but was Flight 2 for two years prior and flight 3 before that.  With more playing time, he improved and gained soccer IQ as well as puberty helping him grow. The younger kid has no interest in playing in college and just enjoys playing soccer.


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