# Stop the Madness!!!  Tryouts November 12th?



## timbuck (Nov 1, 2018)

I saw a posting on Instagram for Pateadores 07 and 08 "Pre-Academy" Tryouts being held on Monday, November 12th.
What the hell?

The SCDSL 07 season still has games being played until November 18th.

I thought December tryouts was crazy enough.  But having tryouts while the season isn't even finished? 

Is anyone advocating for the kids out there?  How about a little bit of a break for a 10 year old (08) player before the pressure of trying out for a "Pre"-academy team.


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## espola (Nov 1, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I saw a posting on Instagram for Pateadores 07 and 08 "Pre-Academy" Tryouts being held on Monday, November 12th.
> What the hell?
> 
> The SCDSL 07 season still has games being played until November 18th.
> ...


If someone is ready to bite on "Pre-Academy" as if it were something to be desired, attending an illogically-timed tryout won't matter much.


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## Sokrplayer75 (Nov 1, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I saw a posting on Instagram for Pateadores 07 and 08 "Pre-Academy" Tryouts being held on Monday, November 12th.
> What the hell?
> 
> The SCDSL 07 season still has games being played until November 18th.
> ...


Yep, these clubs are starting earlier and earlier. Last year we signed early November for this season, not to mention we had other players showing up  to our practices a month before....crazy!


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## mirage (Nov 1, 2018)

I can see it now.  There will be "Pre-Academy Development League".

Kids selected will have maximum prep-school and college exposure.  The kids will have 10 months season and they will have to give up their LL, NJB and whatever else sports in the off season. 

The parents must commit to buy complete training gear and supporter's package.  It will be reasonable though, it should only cost between 4500~5000 per season....


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## timbuck (Nov 1, 2018)

Clubs will start handing out flyers in the maternity ward.


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## Surfref (Nov 1, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I saw a posting on Instagram for Pateadores 07 and 08 "Pre-Academy" Tryouts being held on Monday, November 12th.
> What the hell?
> 
> The SCDSL 07 season still has games being played until November 18th.
> ...


It should be regulated like club volleyball.  V-ball has a set time frame that tryouts can be held.  I always thought that tryouts were a little ridiculous for club soccer.  Every time after G12 my daughter wanted to move teams we contacted the coaches for the teams she was interested in and let them know when and where she was playing and sometimes sent video/link.  ALL of the coaches saw at least a half of her games and would contact us by email or phone and ask her to come out to practice with the team.  This was easier than driving her all over SD county going to tryouts.


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## jpeter (Nov 1, 2018)

mirage said:


> I can see it now.  There will be "Pre-Academy Development League".
> 
> Kids selected will have maximum prep-school and college exposure.  The kids will have 10 months season and they will have to give up their LL, NJB and whatever else sports in the off season.
> 
> The parents must commit to buy complete training gear and supporter's package.  It will be reasonable though, it should only cost between 4500~5000 per season....


Preschool soccer for tots is getting popular I've heard with the Galaxy and others getting into the ''little , Lil, or Jr. " scene.


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## espola (Nov 1, 2018)

Surfref said:


> It should be regulated like club volleyball.  V-ball has a set time frame that tryouts can be held.  I always thought that tryouts were a little ridiculous for club soccer.  Every time after G12 my daughter wanted to move teams we contacted the coaches for the teams she was interested in and let them know when and where she was playing and sometimes sent video/link.  ALL of the coaches saw at least a half of her games and would contact us by email or phone and ask her to come out to practice with the team.  This was easier than driving her all over SD county going to tryouts.


After my second son had played up a couple of years on a team with his older brother, I let him decide if he wanted to play his own age at U9.  So we went to 2 tryouts, one for the local club's U9 team and one for a neighboring club whose President was a family friend.  We got phone calls from 4 different coaches or board members offering him a spot (he went with the local U9 team, to my relief).  I joked with him about his 200% success ratio, until a couple of years later - my daughter had dropped club soccer in favor of lacrosse.  Then she got a call from the coach organizing a B team at U10 for the local club, and we knew the coach (mother of another player on my older son's team), so she took the spot without a tryout.


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## Eagle33 (Nov 1, 2018)

There are a lot of unhappy players looking to switch teams asap. Since transfer window open at Thanksgiving, its very possible to have tryouts in November.


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## Surf Zombie (Nov 1, 2018)

My three year old (he was still two in this picture) is in a “tots soccer” program at the club where my older kids play.  Insanity at its finest.


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## timbuck (Nov 1, 2018)

Tots programs are great.  No different than a tumbling class or music class that many toddlers attend.
Where it would be weird is if the various competing Tots/Lils programs started recruiting from other programs.  With Pre/Academy/Elite etc in their names.


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## BananaKick (Nov 1, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Tots programs are great.  No different than a tumbling class or music class that many toddler attend.
> Where it would be weird is if the various competing Tots/Lils programs started recruiting from other programs.  With Pre/Academy/Elite etc in their names.


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCipeifDd2qxd3K2erOUE__jqKoVHe6KL8rt3aAwq07XDANmJUDQ


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## Not_that_Serious (Nov 1, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Clubs will start handing out flyers in the maternity ward.


Happyfeet is big at preschools and starts at 2. They feed into nomads. Seen galaxy tots. All fine to get kids moving but real  recruiting start at 5 years of age. Nuts


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## USA_SOCCER_1 (Nov 1, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Tots programs are great.  No different than a tumbling class or music class that many toddlers attend.
> Where it would be weird is if the various competing Tots/Lils programs started recruiting from other programs.  With Pre/Academy/Elite etc in their names.


I am going to be starting an elite pre-pre academy (tm) program for fetuses. Moms will have to sign a liability waiver though because these little guys (and girls) are going to kick hard!!  Just wait until I get them training on bicycle kicks!!


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## GKDad65 (Nov 1, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I saw a posting on Instagram for Pateadores 07 and 08 "Pre-Academy" Tryouts being held on Monday, November 12th.
> What the hell?
> 
> The SCDSL 07 season still has games being played until November 18th.
> ...







Grab the cash before they spend it on other things like Christmas, rent/mortgage, food,........


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## Keepers_Keeper (Nov 1, 2018)

USA_SOCCER_1 said:


> I am going to be starting an elite pre-pre academy (tm) program for fetuses. Moms will have to sign a liability waiver though because these little guys (and girls) are going to kick hard!!  Just wait until I get them training on bicycle kicks!!


I knew my DD was going to be a goalkeeper the way she dove from side to side while en utero.  Just kidding   Thanks for the laugh tho - it is totally ridiculous how intense it is getting for little players.  Let them have fun!


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## Paul Spacey (Nov 1, 2018)

After Thanksgiving (at the earliest) means that CSL and SCDSL are over and many kids/parents have had at least one weekend off from soccer. We were naive when we setup our club initially and did open tryouts in Feb/Mar, only to realize many kids committed to clubs in Jan (some even earlier). Lesson learned. We usually have kids come out to practice with our teams once or twice and play in a scrimmage but not until December at least (and mostly not until the new year). 

None of our existing players lose their spots on the roster until after State Cup so we don't often make changes before then anyway; the only way anyone leaves before Feb is if they choose to join another club (and that scenario hasn't happened to us before State Cup in the 3 years we've been formed). The only way any new players come in before Feb is if we already have an open spot. We carry a maximum of 16 players on our rosters and with a couple of teams having 15 this season, we do have one or two spots open for players that could essentially join from Dec onwards. I know many clubs carry more than that (and some carry less) but for me it's a playing time issue. Getting 5 subs playing time is tough enough; any more than that and it becomes a bit of a nightmare.

The tryout season and madness of it all is equal parts laughable and shocking. I understand kids and parents being unhappy with their situation and wanting to leave but for me there should be an element of making a commitment to a team and your teammates, then seeing that through (on the part of both club and player). Of course, if there are extreme circumstances (such as a crazy coach or the team not being able to raise enough players for games), it makes sense that you would want to move ASAP and break any commitment. 

Tryouts get earlier every year and the whole tryout process seems to get messier every year. I don't know what the solution is, I'll be honest.


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## ToonArmy (Nov 1, 2018)

So if tryouts are this early does that then mean clubs are making their offers to its current players and asking them to pay now and sign on the dotted line for next year? 

My daughter has had a rough year on a new team, it started out fine in spring then summer started to play a new position which took some time to get use to then a 2 month injury kept her out of all but 2 fall league games very little minutes in those games so yeah we aren't extremely happy about the current situation but how will i really know if she needs to find a new team/coach until the full soccer calendar year is over 

I guess it wouldn't be the biggest deal if it weren't so damn expensive but why make it more stressful of a decision by making us make that decision in November


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## GunninGopher (Nov 1, 2018)

I thought that the winter camps were the 'early try-outs'.


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## jpeter (Nov 1, 2018)




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## timbuck (Nov 1, 2018)

Surfref said:


> It should be regulated like club volleyball.  V-ball has a set time frame that tryouts can be held.  I always thought that tryouts were a little ridiculous for club soccer.  Every time after G12 my daughter wanted to move teams we contacted the coaches for the teams she was interested in and let them know when and where she was playing and sometimes sent video/link.  ALL of the coaches saw at least a half of her games and would contact us by email or phone and ask her to come out to practice with the team.  This was easier than driving her all over SD county going to tryouts.


Volleyball at least tries to do it right.  They still have “camps” which act as tryouts. And there’s still some back room dealings to get certain kids on certain teams. But the tryout and offer window is great.  
My understanding is that guest players and club passes are not allowed.  You play with the team you sign with. No filling in for injuries.  No grabbing players from flight 1 teams to play on flight 3 teams in tournaments.


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## espola (Nov 1, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Volleyball at least tries to do it right.  They still have “camps” which act as tryouts. And there’s still some back room dealings to get certain kids on certain teams. But the tryout and offer window is great.
> My understanding is that guest players and club passes are not allowed.  You play with the team you sign with. No filling in for injuries.  No grabbing players from flight 1 teams to play on flight 3 teams in tournaments.


One of my son's HS friends was a very tall girl who played on both basketball and volleyball teams until she settled on VB.  When I asked her why, she said that when you collide with someone on a volleyball court, it's one of your friends.


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## Messi>CR7 (Nov 2, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> After Thanksgiving (at the earliest) means that CSL and SCDSL are over and many kids/parents have had at least one weekend off from soccer. We were naive when we setup our club initially and did open tryouts in Feb/Mar, only to realize many kids committed to clubs in Jan (some even earlier). Lesson learned. We usually have kids come out to practice with our teams once or twice and play in a scrimmage but not until December at least (and mostly not until the new year).
> 
> None of our existing players lose their spots on the roster until after State Cup so we don't often make changes before then anyway; the only way anyone leaves before Feb is if they choose to join another club (and that scenario hasn't happened to us before State Cup in the 3 years we've been formed). The only way any new players come in before Feb is if we already have an open spot. We carry a maximum of 16 players on our rosters and with a couple of teams having 15 this season, we do have one or two spots open for players that could essentially join from Dec onwards. I know many clubs carry more than that (and some carry less) but for me it's a playing time issue. Getting 5 subs playing time is tough enough; any more than that and it becomes a bit of a nightmare.
> 
> ...


Everything you said make sense, especially about the roster size.  However, I prefer we just get rid of the whole State Cup thing or play it right after the league season concludes.  It just doesn't make sense to wait two or three months after the last league game to play one more tournament.  Winning or doing well in the league should mean something and should be the most important goal for a team.


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## Eagle33 (Nov 2, 2018)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Everything you said make sense, especially about the roster size.  However, I prefer we just get rid of the whole State Cup thing or play it right after the league season concludes.  It just doesn't make sense to wait two or three months after the last league game to play one more tournament.  Winning or doing well in the league should mean something and should be the most important goal for a team.


Last time I checked playing State or National Cup is NOT mandatory.


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## timbuck (Nov 2, 2018)

For u14 (05) and younger, StateCup should be played between Thanksgiving and Christmas. 

And for older-  High School soccer season is done Feb 1.  Why is state cup not played until March 30?

I don’t think you need 60 days to get ready for a tournament.


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## espola (Nov 2, 2018)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Everything you said make sense, especially about the roster size.  However, I prefer we just get rid of the whole State Cup thing or play it right after the league season concludes.  It just doesn't make sense to wait two or three months after the last league game to play one more tournament.  Winning or doing well in the league should mean something and should be the most important goal for a team.


I thought it was, but maybe that was only in the days of promotion and relegation.  Now with coaches and DOCs (and parents, too, right?) able to choose their own competition levels, maybe not so much.


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## espola (Nov 2, 2018)

timbuck said:


> For u14 (05) and younger, StateCup should be played between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
> 
> And for older-  High School soccer season is done Feb 1.  Why is state cup not played until March 30?
> 
> I don’t think you need 60 days to get ready for a tournament.


Last scheduled game for the two closest local high schools (rivalry game where they play each other) is Feb 8.  Almost half the teams will be playing as much as a couple weeks more in Section playoffs, followed by a week of half-state championships which for this upcoming season ends Mar 2.


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## Dargle (Nov 2, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> After Thanksgiving (at the earliest) means that CSL and SCDSL are over and many kids/parents have had at least one weekend off from soccer. We were naive when we setup our club initially and did open tryouts in Feb/Mar, only to realize many kids committed to clubs in Jan (some even earlier). Lesson learned. We usually have kids come out to practice with our teams once or twice and play in a scrimmage but not until December at least (and mostly not until the new year).
> 
> None of our existing players lose their spots on the roster until after State Cup so we don't often make changes before then anyway; the only way anyone leaves before Feb is if they choose to join another club (and that scenario hasn't happened to us before State Cup in the 3 years we've been formed). The only way any new players come in before Feb is if we already have an open spot. We carry a maximum of 16 players on our rosters and with a couple of teams having 15 this season, we do have one or two spots open for players that could essentially join from Dec onwards. I know many clubs carry more than that (and some carry less) but for me it's a playing time issue. Getting 5 subs playing time is tough enough; any more than that and it becomes a bit of a nightmare.
> 
> ...


I've learned that there are micro-markets in club soccer when it comes to tryouts.  What Paul is describing is accurate and works in West LA, where his club is located.  While it's true that some kids commit in January, there are still big clubs on the westside that have Feb/March open tryouts (post-State Cup) and all start letting kids come to practices in December/January.  Moreover, all westside clubs, as far as I know, keep kids on through State Cup and most don't require existing players to commit for next year until around March-April.

It's really the OC/San Diego clubs that have been moving open tryouts earlier and earlier and have been pressuring early sign-ups etc.  My sense is that this is because there is much more competition for players with more clubs and a wider range of options, travel-wise.  On the westside, there's only about 4-5 clubs that might even have open tryouts (plus a few very small ones that don't even have a team in all age groups/genders).  A few players could leave to go to South Bay, Valley, or downtown clubs, but that's typically only for DA or unique circumstances.


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## Paul Spacey (Nov 2, 2018)

Dargle said:


> I've learned that there are micro-markets in club soccer when it comes to tryouts.  What Paul is describing is accurate and works in West LA, where his club is located.  While it's true that some kids commit in January, there are still big clubs on the westside that have Feb/March open tryouts (post-State Cup) and all start letting kids come to practices in December/January.  Moreover, all westside clubs, as far as I know, keep kids on through State Cup and most don't require existing players to commit for next year until around March-April.
> 
> It's really the OC/San Diego clubs that have been moving open tryouts earlier and earlier and have been pressuring early sign-ups etc.  My sense is that this is because there is much more competition for players with more clubs and a wider range of options, travel-wise.  On the westside, there's only about 4-5 clubs that might even have open tryouts (plus a few very small ones that don't even have a team in all age groups/genders).  A few players could leave to go to South Bay, Valley, or downtown clubs, but that's typically only for DA or unique circumstances.


This is informative. I do sense that your 'big clubs' and 'very small ones without a team in all age groups' comments mean that you are affiliated with a so-called 'big' club (whatever that means in youth soccer). I may be wrong if you're just an informed observer.

The main point of my post was that IMO clubs should take on a player and keep that player for the season to 'develop' them (regardless of their 'micro-market'), without the risk of being cut or replaced just 3 or 4 months into the season. Now, that's an alien concept to many clubs, I appreciate that. Recruitment to win supersedes actual development for way too many clubs and coaches in youth soccer but whatever, good luck to them. 

The extra competition between clubs in OC/San Diego is obviously a factor like you suggest but does that mean everyone should just throw their morals out of the window and make it a race against time to snap up as many players as possible, as early as possible while cutting others to make room for them?

Forget it, what the hell am I talking about. I'll stop typing and just knock my head against my apartment wall a few hundred times; nothing is going to change is it.


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## timbuck (Nov 2, 2018)

Blame the clubs or blame the parents?

Parents sign on with a club with the expectation that they will start with the new club once state cup ends.  They may sign anytime from November until the start of the Fall season.
But as soon as they sign on and they see the new team play their first game, they start looking around for next year.  Their kid didn't play enough.  The team got killed.  Their kid played in a new position.  There was a parent on the sideline that rubbed them the wrong way.  The coach is too loud. The coach is too quiet.
Parents of players that are of similar strength start having sidebar conversations about trying to keep these top players together by all going to the same tryouts and trying to find a stronger team.  

Clubs start the tryout process early to get ahead of any surprises on who is leaving.  Most clubs would prefer to keep their team as-is through State Cup.  But if they wait until the end of February, most players have already made a decision to leave.  If a club has a full roster and 2 kids that are complete studs show up, it's bad news for the bottom 2 players on the roster.  It's actually bad news for everyone on the roster because these 2 star players knock everyone down a notch.  (Some would argue this is good for the team -  It's pushing existing players to improve.)

Coaches start shopping for new options around this time of year too.  A variety of reasons:

Their existing club didn't support the coach with players (IE - they didn't help recruit. They took the 2 best players from the B team and put them on the A team.  So now the B team lost every game and the 13 remaining players are all looking around).  
Their existing club didn't pay them properly (late payments, short payment, required them to be at the field more than was originally expected).
Their existing club hired someone new to be a director or take on a the A team, when it was promised to this coach before.
A new club offered them more money or a higher level position.
And now that clubs are able to field 5+ teams in an age group, it's rare that a player doesn't get offered a spot with the club.  They may wind up on the A or the E team, but the club will offer a spot.  So they sign on.  And then a month before the season starts, the team they are on only has 12 players.


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## watfly (Nov 2, 2018)

The "show up at another team's practice" tryouts have already begun.  I won't say that showing up at open tryouts (without prior exposure to the club) is worthless but it's not very effective.  I can't speak for OC or LA, but San Diego is a pretty small soccer community.  On the boys side (probably U11 and above), it seems that the top tier kids are known by at least a few clubs.  It's rare that an unknown commodity, unless they've moved in from out-of-town, makes a top team.  For the most part it seems to be just more of shuffling the same pool of kids between Surf, Albion, Rebels, LAGSD and SDSC.


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## Paul Spacey (Nov 2, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Blame the clubs or blame the parents?
> 
> Parents sign on with a club with the expectation that they will start with the new club once state cup ends.  They may sign anytime from November until the start of the Fall season.
> But as soon as they sign on and they see the new team play their first game, they start looking around for next year.  Their kid didn't play enough.  The team got killed.  Their kid played in a new position.  There was a parent on the sideline that rubbed them the wrong way.  The coach is too loud. The coach is too quiet.
> ...


Great points; blame both. Or just blame Trump.


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## Not_that_Serious (Nov 2, 2018)

get cups done in December, exception probably being HS ages. Seasons end around the 12-18th. Playoffs for a couple weeks. Cups right after. Release players Dec31 or first week of Jan. Wont have real time to have tryouts, some might, but most will be busy. Sometimes people who make rules arent the most logical or bow to those feeding the $$$$


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## USA_SOCCER_1 (Nov 2, 2018)

Keepers_Keeper said:


> I knew my DD was going to be a goalkeeper the way she dove from side to side while en utero.  Just kidding   Thanks for the laugh tho - it is totally ridiculous how intense it is getting for little players.  Let them have fun!


Glad you got a laugh out of my post.  My wife didn’t tell me anything in particular about my son in the womb, but I do know that when he came out, he almost always had some kind of ball in his hand.  I thought from a young age he would be an athlete- I thought a quarterback at first- but fairly soon, it became apparent that he loved soccer (and goalkeeping) so he just gravitated in that direction.  I wouldn’t change anything about that decision, and with him now going into his junior year of high school and 3rd year of varsity, it has been a fun journey to be on with him.


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## Surfref (Nov 2, 2018)

timbuck said:


> For u14 (05) and younger, StateCup should be played between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
> 
> And for older-  High School soccer season is done Feb 1.  Why is state cup not played until March 30?
> 
> I don’t think you need 60 days to get ready for a tournament.


HS season runs through the beginning of March unless your HS team does not make the playoffs, then it ends mid-February.


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## jpeter (Nov 2, 2018)

Tryouts for what the parents?  Let try to see if we can try to get more $$$ eariler.

Do real tryouts even exist anymore? past the small sided ages when they are starting.

U9 is the last time I recall either of our kids attending a tryout even through changes in clubs, teams, leagues, da, ecnl, etc almost everyone seems to be known before hand at certain levels without any tryout unless your new to the scene/area.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Nov 2, 2018)

The only one  that loses are the kids.  They basically get no breaks because once November comes around, it's tryouts in December and January, state Cup January/February for youngers. Then it's soccer practice with the new or old team.   It would be great if Calsouth had a mandatory break in December, May and June to give these kids a break. 

By the time they get to high school a lot of boys drop out to check out other sports.  Happened to both of my boys.


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## timbuck (Nov 2, 2018)

Sometimes it’s soccer practice with the new AND the old team. 
Don’t want to leave them hanging for state cup but they new coach wants you to become part of the team ASAP.


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## MWN (Nov 3, 2018)

timbuck said:


> For u14 (05) and younger, StateCup should be played between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
> 
> And for older-  High School soccer season is done Feb 1.  Why is state cup not played until March 30?
> 
> I don’t think you need 60 days to get ready for a tournament.


Here in SoCal, State and National Cup for youngers (U14 and earlier) takes just under 3 months to complete.  Heck, just getting the kids off to a start (Jan 19 - Feb 23) takes 5 weeks for the youngers when you consider Mayors, Governors, Presidents and National Cup teams.  We could do it in 3 to 4 weeks as you suggest IF there were 2x more sports complexes, double the Cal South staff and parents were OK with playing games during the middle of the week and right up until Xmas.  We would also need to petition God or whoever controls the weather to make sure it doesn't rain during that extremely short window.


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## carla hinkle (Nov 3, 2018)

I do find the San Diego big clubs’ practice of new teams being put together before State Cup can create some pretty awkward team dynamics with the old team. 

Just out of curiosity I checked the Cal North website, it looks like their youngers play State Cup in December. I wonder why Cal South doesn’t do that? Do we have many more teams?


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## espola (Nov 3, 2018)

carla hinkle said:


> I do find the San Diego big clubs’ practice of new teams being put together before State Cup can create some pretty awkward team dynamics with the old team.
> 
> Just out of curiosity I checked the Cal North website, it looks like their youngers play State Cup in December. I wonder why Cal South doesn’t do that? Do we have many more teams?


Yes.  The combined divisions (National, President, Governor, and Mayor) are the largest youth soccer tournament in the world.


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## SPChamp1 (Nov 5, 2018)

Personally, I think that tryouts for all CalSouth associated clubs should be held within a specific time period and that teams should not be able to offer a spot to any player not already with the club until after the try out period has concluded.

For example, all CalSouth Clubs can hold tryouts from Jan 1-Feb 28. Beginning Mar 1, Clubs can contact any player they wish to formally offer a roster spot. During this tryout period, potential “targets” will be allowed to train with new teams to see what they think about the coach, players, parents, etc..., but no official offers can be made until after March 1.

I do agree with State and National Cups being held so far past the end of the season as well. Not to mention that it falls right into this Club Soccer Silly season.


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## jpeter (Nov 5, 2018)

SPChamp1 said:


> Personally, I think that tryouts for all CalSouth associated clubs should be held within a specific time period and that teams should not be able to offer a spot to any player not already with the club until after the try out period has concluded.
> 
> For example, all CalSouth Clubs can hold tryouts from Jan 1-Feb 28. Beginning Mar 1, Clubs can contact any player they wish to formally offer a roster spot. During this tryout period, potential “targets” will be allowed to train with new teams to see what they think about the coach, players, parents, etc..., but no official offers can be made until after March 1.
> 
> I do agree with State and National Cups being held so far past the end of the season as well. Not to mention that it falls right into this Club Soccer Silly season.


Cal south has good marketing calling a regional tournament something it's not and they don't want to mess with their $cash$ cow  since it's a huge source of their revenue.

CS has very few check & balances and they let teams play down in the cups,. Allow players from other mutiple other leagues to be dual or or tripled rostered,.  They sanaction leagues who have all different kinds of rules, subbing, very little consistently and there 80's registration system in easiely taken advantage of,  copies of birth certs are a joke and you can buy them on this site  but they don't seem to care much.  some regional commissioners or lawyers will just step in to save face when clubs/team don't follow the rules.

Clubs go along with CS because they can  charge more for a 9 month program even though you play just fall and some cups maybe if you pay another $800 plus fees.  For the olders yes with high school there should be a break but for the youngers it's a ploy for more $$ IMO.

Usclub and the new leagues like
https://www.upslsoccer.com/youth are going to offer some more alternatives for the older groups, youngers don't see much on the horizon just yet.


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## Messi>CR7 (Nov 5, 2018)

I have a tryout related question and just want to get some opinions from folks who might have gone through this particular decision.  What's more important?
1-Being on the best team possible (but not over her head) so DD is practicing and playing with like minded kids everyday, or
2-Best coach possible (based on my own judgment) even if it's for an obviously lesser team compared to #1
Age in question is U11 going to U12.

I always believe getting the best coach is most important.  But I also see big improvement from kids who play on teams where like minded kids push each other to get better day in and day out regardless who the coach is.  Thanks.


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## Paul Spacey (Nov 5, 2018)

Messi>CR7 said:


> I have a tryout related question and just want to get some opinions from folks who might have gone through this particular decision.  What's more important?
> 1-Being on the best team possible (but not over her head) so DD is practicing and playing with like minded kids everyday, or
> 2-Best coach possible (based on my own judgment) even if it's for an obviously lesser team compared to #1
> Age in question is U11 going to U12.
> ...


There is no right or wrong answer as it's situation specific.

Having a good coach is hugely important but if your kid is on a team where the other players are not at a similar level (it depends how big the difference is) then they won't be pushed in practice and they need that for sure. If they are on a team with like-minded kids who push each other to improve but the coach is not great, this could impact your kid and affect her enjoyment and passion for the game. I've seen and heard this plenty of times.

You've got to try and find a balance between the two and given the number of clubs/coaches available in most areas, you should be able to find something that works for your daughter. Attending a few practices (even if just to watch) and seeing a game usually helps with gauging what the coach is like and how the team play etc. If you do your homework, look at a few options and be patient, you should have no problem finding the right fit.


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## focomoso (Nov 5, 2018)

Messi>CR7 said:


> I have a tryout related question and just want to get some opinions from folks who might have gone through this particular decision.  What's more important?
> 1-Being on the best team possible (but not over her head) so DD is practicing and playing with like minded kids everyday, or
> 2-Best coach possible (based on my own judgment) even if it's for an obviously lesser team compared to #1
> Age in question is U11 going to U12.
> ...


I struggle with this all the time and have in the past always picked the better team over coach. However, recent experiences in the DA are causing me to rethink this. We're thinking now that a better coach of a lessor team may be the right choice. At least that's what we're going to try this year.


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## toucan (Nov 5, 2018)

Messi>CR7 said:


> I have a tryout related question and just want to get some opinions from folks who might have gone through this particular decision.  What's more important?
> 1-Being on the best team possible (but not over her head) so DD is practicing and playing with like minded kids everyday, or
> 2-Best coach possible (based on my own judgment) even if it's for an obviously lesser team compared to #1


If you find a team where your daughter is playing hard with and against other talented girls every practice, then that is the place to go.  Those teams don't just magically appear.  Those teams also have good coaches creating that atmosphere.  Good coaches do more than just train; heck, training is the easiest thing a coach does.  Good coaches scout and recruit talented players, which has the effect of raising the level of skill and intensity at practices, which makes it easy for your daughter to improve, because she is just doing what all her teammates are doing.  In effect, each girl on the team mentors the other, and each girl challenges the other.


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## timbuck (Nov 5, 2018)

I think the other deciding factor, at 12 and older, is "Where does my kid want to play?"


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## Frank (Nov 5, 2018)

Messi>CR7 said:


> I have a tryout related question and just want to get some opinions from folks who might have gone through this particular decision.  What's more important?
> 1-Being on the best team possible (but not over her head) so DD is practicing and playing with like minded kids everyday, or
> 2-Best coach possible (based on my own judgment) even if it's for an obviously lesser team compared to #1
> Age in question is U11 going to U12.
> ...


To me at this age it is coaching. After 15 it is team. A great coach on a bronze team at 15might be nice but your kid will never be seen at the right events unless the team is good enough to be in those events. College coaches rarely see low level teams.


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## Sidekick (Nov 5, 2018)

toucan said:


> If you find a team where your daughter is playing hard with and against other talented girls every practice, then that is the place to go.  Those teams don't just magically appear.  Those teams also have good coaches creating that atmosphere.  Good coaches do more than just train; heck, training is the easiest thing a coach does.  Good coaches scout and recruit talented players, which has the effect of raising the level of skill and intensity at practices, which makes it easy for your daughter to improve, because she is just doing what all her teammates are doing.  In effect, each girl on the team mentors the other, and each girl challenges the other.



This sounds exactly like the Blues Baker 01/02 philosophy. He’s known for recruiting most of his best players sprinkled in with a few that wanted to be on a better team which pushes them to be a better player. Those teams practice/scrimmage against one another which has made those girls very competitive. Like them or hate them. 5 players that I know of have made the National Camp Rosters and you have many National Championships between both teams. Some of the best mentors they’ve had were either former Baker players or their own teammates. It’s obvious that most of the players have one common character trait and that is they strive to be the best and will do whatever they can to get there with CrossFit and extra training on the side. In addition, be willing to get an academic tutor if needed to assist your player with their schoolwork.  It’s not the average player that can put up with those Coaching antics!! Not recommending the Blues in any way, just recommend your player find a very competitive group of players that they find are high achievers, both in academics and athletics! There must be a balance that paves a path for success!! Good luck to your player in finding the right fit!!


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## GeurieFC (Nov 5, 2018)

This might not be the right thread, apologies, dont mean to derail this thread, mods feel free to move.

As an outsider looking in Im very surprised at the short season you guys play. The Sydney (Australia) regular youth season runs for 25 weeks, finals are on top of that and add another 3 weeks to the finalists season. Why is your season so short? Is it to accommodate other, perhaps more established sports? Is it to accommodate the High School season which is more formalised than here? Is football (soccer) the priority sport there?

FYI, the Sydney season finished for most on September 1, and all teams trial on October 14 (pre-trials leading into the official trial day) with training starting generally a  week or three later, teams are in 2 night a week training mode now and 3 nights/week from mid January after an xmas/new year break.

Cheers


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## MWN (Nov 5, 2018)

GeurieFC said:


> This might not be the right thread, apologies, dont mean to derail this thread, mods feel free to move.
> 
> As an outsider looking in Im very surprised at the short season you guys play. The Sydney (Australia) regular youth season runs for 25 weeks, finals are on top of that and add another 3 weeks to the finalists season. Why is your season so short? Is it to accommodate other, perhaps more established sports? Is it to accommodate the High School season which is more formalised than here? Is football (soccer) the priority sport there?
> 
> ...


@GeurieFC,

Here in Southern California, the season for all but the DA clubs basically goes like this:

May/June - Teams are finalized/formed.
July - August - Summer Tournament Season - Teams are playing a 4 to 6 tournaments and figuring things out.
September to Mid-November - League play - Team play about 10 to 12 games in the respective leagues.
Late November to January - Dark, little play, but practices for youngers.  Olders (U15+) are playing High School.
Cal South State Cup (Tournament by State Association) - Late January begins for the youngers.  Olders are still in HS soccer.
March - Youngers are finishing State Cup, Older begin late March to early April.
May - State Cup finishes
June - Begin again

Soccer basically has 3 seasons: Summer Tournaments (June - Aug), League Play (Sept - November), State Cup (Jan - May) with HS (Nov - Feb) for olders.


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## Chalklines (Nov 6, 2018)

When it's time to leave its time to leave.

Having try outs this early just gives players and parents more options and leverage.


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## watfly (Nov 6, 2018)

Messi>CR7 said:


> I have a tryout related question and just want to get some opinions from folks who might have gone through this particular decision.  What's more important?
> 1-Being on the best team possible (but not over her head) so DD is practicing and playing with like minded kids everyday, or
> 2-Best coach possible (based on my own judgment) even if it's for an obviously lesser team compared to #1
> Age in question is U11 going to U12.
> ...


Like others have said it depends, there are too many variables for each child for a right or wrong answer.  I tend to fall in the camp that the "game is the best teacher" so I lean towards having my son play with the best players.  He also thrives developmentally in the high intensity environment where every practice is a battle with your teammates.  Now I wouldn't have him play on a great team with a terrible coach, nor would he want to.  He would also get frustrated, even if he had a great coach, if he was playing with teammates that weren't up to his level.  Everyone has to decide what's best for their child.


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## futboldad1 (Nov 7, 2018)

Clubs need to stop with this BS, and also the sleazy recruitment calls and parking lot approaches to rostered players during the season. Now, my experience is on the parental side so my guide would be this: 

1. Does your DD like their current coach? (are they a good influence...)
2. Has your current coach improved your DD?
3. Is her current coach hardworking with regards to scheduling? (good indicator as to whether they'll make calls come pre-college age)
4. Are the players currently on her team as good or better than her? 
5. Has her current team developed over the past year? 
6. Does her current team play good soccer? (not bootball to one fast kid) 

If the all the answers to the above questions is yes then don't be a club-hopper and stay where you are. Also, send me a PM so I can get my 06 there as teams with a good coach (knowledge and personality) and roster (talented and hardworking) are few and far between. 

If one or more of these is a "no," then by all means find a better situation for your daughter when the current season is over (or right now if the coach is abusive). But remember, ask your DD their thoughts....it's their journey not yours and you should merely be a guide for them not something equivalent to a drone pilot.


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## Grace T. (Nov 7, 2018)

MWN said:


> @GeurieFC,
> 
> Here in Southern California, the season for all but the DA clubs basically goes like this:
> 
> ...


He does have a point that our season is awful short in comparison to other countries.  And it can't just be the weather in the North that's to blame.  High school might be part of the answer.  But I've got to think that the answer goes back to the 60s/70s when AYSO was being launched and the basketball season.  Summer was impractical with kids away in camp or on vacations.  Winter had the problem with weather, plus the youth basketball season.  That left spring (against baseball/softball) and fall (against football)...given that soccer started as largely a girl's sport in the US, it would have made sense to have chosen football (where girls don't play) instead of softball (which they do).  In SoCal, for example, why does League play wrap up around Thanksgiving instead of going the additional 3 weeks up to the Christmas holidays...at least here the weather is still o.k.?


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## ItsCalledSoccer (Nov 9, 2018)

I think it's more of a society issue. Loyalty is dead now. If anyone has the slightest problem with anything, we change it. Insurance, jobs, phones, cars, partners etc. I fear that these kids are being taught disloyalty. 

Kids try out for dozens of teams, yet when they're asked what the issues are with their current teams, they don't say much is wrong. Most things can be fixed through professional conversations between parents and coaches. It's a strange environment that has been created here, teams blowing up left, right and center.

Is your kid happy on the team?
Is the coach a good role model?
Does the coach offer good training?
Is your kid getting enough game time?

If yes then stay. The lure of DA has sadly pushed people to try and leave their team every season and promote their kid up the 'pyramid', when I have seen kids playing Silver making DA over kids in Silver-Elite/Gold levels.


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## Chalklines (Nov 9, 2018)

ItsCalledSoccer said:


> I think it's more of a society issue. Loyalty is dead now. If anyone has the slightest problem with anything, we change it. Insurance, jobs, phones, cars, partners etc. I fear that these kids are being taught disloyalty.


Your asking us to put a shitty youth soccer program above all........come on

Im loyal to my kids and their happiness. PERIOD. Nothing else matters but them. Am I wrong here?


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## ItsCalledSoccer (Nov 9, 2018)

Chalklines said:


> Your asking us to put a shitty youth soccer program above all........come on
> 
> Im loyal to my kids and their happiness. PERIOD. Nothing else matters but them. Am I wrong here?


No I understand there are lots of legitimate reasons for families to move clubs. I'm saying that there are kids who have had a successful and happy experience yet are being pushed around to other tryouts because the new team won 1 more game than their current team. Or if there is a small issue that can be solved with a simple conversation with the coach. I don't think it's a positive thing if my child has played for 6 different clubs in 8 years for example. Loyalty is an important thing to teach our kids in my opinion.


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## Thunderstruck (Dec 14, 2018)

Messi>CR7 said:


> I have a tryout related question and just want to get some opinions from folks who might have gone through this particular decision.  What's more important?
> 1-Being on the best team possible (but not over her head) so DD is practicing and playing with like minded kids everyday, or
> 2-Best coach possible (based on my own judgment) even if it's for an obviously lesser team compared to #1
> Age in question is U11 going to U12.
> ...


This is a great question and something I am just now having to consider myself. Finding the best coach possible has always been my priority and I am now realizing that finding the best team possible, which to me means a team where the players are all at roughly the same level as my son, needs to play a much bigger factor.  

Ironically, we are also U11 going to U12. It hasn't really been until now that I am just noticing that while my son loves his current team and all of the players, he is starting to get frustrated. Luckily, you don't necessarily have to sacrifice one for the other and you can find both if you do a little legwork and trust both your and your players instincts about what feels right.


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## Grace T. (Dec 14, 2018)

It goes both ways.....


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## Soccermom4 (Dec 15, 2018)

The tryouts have been starting earlier every year.  It seems to be the trend, at least since 2015.


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## younothat (Dec 15, 2018)

Soccermom4 said:


> The tryouts have been starting earlier every year.  It seems to be the trend, at least since 2015.


Times have changed or do they just what the $$$ sooner now?

Many moons ago /w youngest club started at u9 ( 1-2  u8's playing up)  Tryouts in Feb/March near the end of state cup.

If you're team was still playing during tryouts (Round of 8 in St Cup for example) then your team was set/good for the next season.  The Timing of the tryouts always seemed odd to me since we were always still playing  & didn't attended those. 

New players had the best chance if they attended multiple tryouts, as the ages went up more players for fewer spots , for example 45 going  for 2 "A" team openings so there could be a lot of competition to get on a team.


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## MijoPlumber (Dec 17, 2018)

Grace T. said:


> It goes both ways.....
> 
> 
> View attachment 3639 View attachment 3640


Mija, hahaha so there is a reason the New Club or Impact Player is “out of focus” or looks best from behind like Newport madam !!!!! Hahahaha


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## Multi Sport (Dec 17, 2018)

So having tryouts so early is not ideal but neither is having all seven clubs in your area holding tryouts on the same nights.


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## timbuck (Dec 17, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> So having tryouts so early is not ideal but neither is having all seven clubs in your area holding tryouts on the same nights.


All the clubs are trying to beat each other to the punch.  If they are all on the same night, you’ll know which of your current players might not come back.


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## Multi Sport (Dec 17, 2018)

timbuck said:


> All the clubs are trying to beat each other to the punch.  If they are all on the same night, you’ll know which of your current players might not come back.


How does that help the players? You can only attend one tryout a night...


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## jpeter (Dec 17, 2018)

Tryouts for initial academy year teams often times go early to get a jump on the comp.

Always some drama when many players from so many different clubs show up. Sometimes the word gets around so quickly current coaches are known to be texting parents ...15 mins into it... I recall from some surprised parents


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## timbuck (Dec 17, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> How does that help the players? You can only attend one tryout a night...


It doesn’t help the players at all. It helps the clubs.


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## Multi Sport (Dec 17, 2018)

timbuck said:


> It doesn’t help the players at all. It helps the clubs.


So having tryouts early should be a benefit for the players..


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