# Clubs moving Leagues



## ultimate20 (Mar 19, 2018)

I see SCDSL has some new Clubs like FRAM on the Club directory, and a few clubs are not on the list any longer.  Was this a choice on their part to move to CSL, or were they dropped from SCDSL?


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## MWN (Mar 19, 2018)

As a general rule, moving leagues is the choice of the club.  Rarely are clubs dropped from a league.  The main reasons a club would be dropped is habitual refusal to abide by the league rules, such as, failure to secure adequate gaming facilities.  As long as clubs are trying to do the right thing, the leagues support their customer (clubs) with the few bad apple coaches that exist.


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## Kicker4Life (Mar 19, 2018)

Interesting as FRAM left CSL a few years ago for SCDSL only to move back to CSL a year or 2 after. Guess they are coming back!


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 19, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> Interesting as FRAM left CSL a few years ago for SCDSL only to move back to CSL a year or 2 after. Guess they are coming back!


Oh! Wow!


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## Eagle33 (Mar 19, 2018)

MWN said:


> As a general rule, moving leagues is the choice of the club.  Rarely are clubs dropped from a league.  The main reasons a club would be dropped is habitual refusal to abide by the league rules, such as, failure to secure adequate gaming facilities.  As long as clubs are trying to do the right thing, the leagues support their customer (clubs) with the few bad apple coaches that exist.


There is a word Ladera Ranch Surf was dropped from SCDSL.


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 19, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> Interesting as FRAM left CSL a few years ago for SCDSL only to move back to CSL a year or 2 after. Guess they are coming back!


You think this move is another reason why JH is not at FRAM?


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## Soccer (Mar 19, 2018)

There were 10 or so clubs kicked out of SCDSL this year.  At the DOC meeting it was announced that they would be doing this. 

Ladera Ranch Surf did not get accepted is what I heard.  They were under Anaheim Surf Last year and had issues.


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## Raggamufin (Mar 19, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> You think this move is another reason why JH is not at FRAM?


Maybe because they got in the Super Y League .


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## Kicker4Life (Mar 19, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> You think this move is another reason why JH is not at FRAM?


I honestly don’t know, but I doubt it. He left and went to Beach which is an SCDSL club.


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## timbuck (Mar 19, 2018)

Soccer said:


> There were 10 or so clubs kicked out of SCDSL this year.  At the DOC meeting it was announced that they would be doing this.
> 
> Ladera Ranch Surf did not get accepted is what I heard.  They were under Anaheim Surf Last year and had issues.


What kind of issues?


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## MWN (Mar 19, 2018)

Raggamufin said:


> Maybe because they got in the Super Y League .


I thought Super-Y was only going to be top level team, could be wrong though.


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## Soccer (Mar 19, 2018)

timbuck said:


> What kind of issues?


Fields and forfeits from what I was told.
I guess they will apply to CSL, are there any CSL clubs left in south OC?


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## Speed (Mar 19, 2018)

Soccer said:


> There were 10 or so clubs kicked out of SCDSL this year.  At the DOC meeting it was announced that they would be doing this.
> 
> Ladera Ranch Surf did not get accepted is what I heard.  They were under Anaheim Surf Last year and had issues.


What clubs were dropped?


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## Soccer (Mar 20, 2018)

Speed said:


> What clubs were dropped?


Let me see if I can find a link of last years club directory.  To compare. 

From what I heard they were mostly small clubs out of LA area on boys side.


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## Slammerdad (Mar 20, 2018)

I don't know why the Ladera Surf got dropped but I can tell you that the group is a bit of a  fragmented mess.  Initially they started as a signature group of teams competing with AYSO in Ladera (a very big pool of perspective players).  Field space in Ladera Ranch and surrounding areas is extremely competitive and at one point, three different groups (AYSO, ESL-a small signature competitor of AYSO out of Aliso Niguel, and the Ladera soccer league all were competing for field space and permits).  Eventually, the Ladera league aligned itself with the strikers and had a few AYSO club teams come over under that label.  Eventually they re-aligned themselves with the Surf, but the same problems exist.  The teams don't really compete on the club levels so the talented girls gravitate to the other clubs who maintain a presence in the area (Blues, Slammers, formely West Coast, Pats).  As a result, lack of player pipeline, and lack of field space is what will continue to dog this club.


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## MWN (Mar 20, 2018)

If you all remember the hang-wringing and consternation many of you had last summer waiting for the SCDSL schedule to come out, I think we can assume that these 10 clubs were part of that issue.


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## Soccer (Mar 20, 2018)

Slammerdad said:


> I don't know why the Ladera Surf got dropped but I can tell you that the group is a bit of a  fragmented mess.  Initially they started as a signature group of teams competing with AYSO in Ladera (a very big pool of perspective players).  Field space in Ladera Ranch and surrounding areas is extremely competitive and at one point, three different groups (AYSO, ESL-a small signature competitor of AYSO out of Aliso Niguel, and the Ladera soccer league all were competing for field space and permits).  Eventually, the Ladera league aligned itself with the strikers and had a few AYSO club teams come over under that label.  Eventually they re-aligned themselves with the Surf, but the same problems exist.  The teams don't really compete on the club levels so the talented girls gravitate to the other clubs who maintain a presence in the area (Blues, Slammers, formely West Coast, Pats).  As a result, lack of player pipeline, and lack of field space is what will continue to dog this club.


Ladera Surf was never Technically part of the SCDSL.  They were in the league under Strikers MV 2 years ago, then A Surf last year.  This year they had to apply, cause what I heard A Surf  doesn’t want them under them this year.  

So they were not kicked out just not accepted.


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## timbuck (Mar 20, 2018)

Soccer said:


> Ladera Surf was never Technically part of the SCDSL.  They were in the league under Strikers MV 2 years ago, then A Surf last year.  This year they had to apply, cause what I heard A Surf  doesn’t want them under them this year.
> 
> So they were not kicked out just not accepted.


Isn’t Anaheim Surf now considered OC Surf?


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## Josep (Mar 20, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Isn’t Anaheim Surf now considered OC Surf?


Not the OC Surf you want to be on.  That’s the other OC Surf.


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## ItsCalledSoccer (Mar 20, 2018)

Slammerdad said:


> I don't know why the Ladera Surf got dropped but I can tell you that the group is a bit of a  fragmented mess.  Initially they started as a signature group of teams competing with AYSO in Ladera (a very big pool of perspective players).  Field space in Ladera Ranch and surrounding areas is extremely competitive and at one point, three different groups (AYSO, ESL-a small signature competitor of AYSO out of Aliso Niguel, and the Ladera soccer league all were competing for field space and permits).  Eventually, the Ladera league aligned itself with the strikers and had a few AYSO club teams come over under that label.  Eventually they re-aligned themselves with the Surf, but the same problems exist.  The teams don't really compete on the club levels so the talented girls gravitate to the other clubs who maintain a presence in the area (Blues, Slammers, formely West Coast, Pats).  As a result, lack of player pipeline, and lack of field space is what will continue to dog this club.


Yes I know people at that club are desperate to poach any players and are present at pretty much every AYSO game in Ladera. Having played a few of their teams, they didn't seem to be at a good standard and probably were players that should have remained within the AYSO Extra program.


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## RedCard (Mar 20, 2018)

Looks like Crown City and SoCal Academy are also moving from the CSL to SCDSL.


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 20, 2018)

Whose next? Eagles? That's a solid exodus with those 3 clubs.


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## El Clasico (Mar 20, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Whose next? Eagles? That's a solid exodus with those 3 clubs.


Which 3?

Are Crown City and SoCal Academy no longer the same club?


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 20, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> Which 3?
> 
> Are Crown City and SoCal Academy no longer the same club?


They are 2 separate clubs. And FRAM would make 3.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Mar 20, 2018)

Josep said:


> Not the OC Surf you want to be on.  That’s the other OC Surf.


Are there 2 OC Surfs?


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## Josep (Mar 20, 2018)

ItsJustSoccer said:


> Are there 2 OC Surfs?



Yes.  Anaheim Surf and West Coast.


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## Dummy (Mar 21, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> They are 2 separate clubs. And FRAM would make 3.


Crown City and So Cal Academy appear to be the same club.  They have the same board of directors, they practice on the same fields, they appear to have applied to SCDSL as a single organization because they are listed as a single club on the SCDSL website.  What would make them separate clubs?


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 21, 2018)

Dummy said:


> Crown City and So Cal Academy appear to be the same club.  They have the same board of directors, they practice on the same fields, they appear to have applied to SCDSL as a single organization because they are listed as a single club on the SCDSL website.  What would make them separate clubs?


Yes and no. Looks like until now they were separate clubs. They have two separate websites. Separate teams and different coaching staff. If you look at CSL they are listed as separate clubs. As SCDSL does require a specific number of teams to join, it appears because they literally are in each other’s backyards makes sense to now become one club.


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## Zdrone (Mar 21, 2018)

Is there a comprehensive list of clubs dropped/added to SCDSL this year?  More curiosity than anything.
It looks like Sherman Oaks Extreme and FC Valencia are no longer listed with SCDSL.  Both had very good teams at the B04 level (Valencia SWAP).


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 21, 2018)

Zdrone said:


> Is there a comprehensive list of clubs dropped/added to SCDSL this year?  More curiosity than anything.
> It looks like Sherman Oaks Extreme and FC Valencia are no longer listed with SCDSL.  Both had very good teams at the B04 level (Valencia SWAP).


Looks like they are adding them one at a time. FRAM is listed but if CC and SoCal Academy are now merging they have not yet been listed. At least as of yesterday.


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## timbuck (Mar 21, 2018)

Anyone know the process that scdsl follows for updating their site and accepting/denying teams?
Seems there is still going to be quite a bit of movement and updating the "Club Directory" page seems to be a moving target.


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## Dummy (Mar 21, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Looks like they are adding them one at a time. FRAM is listed but if CC and SoCal Academy are now merging they have not yet been listed. At least as of yesterday.


It’s there.  “Crown City United/So Cal Academy”.


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## El Clasico (Mar 21, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Yes and no. Looks like until now they were separate clubs. They have two separate websites. Separate teams and different coaching staff. If you look at CSL they are listed as separate clubs. As SCDSL does require a specific number of teams to join, it appears because they literally are in each other’s backyards makes sense to now become one club.


As far as I know, they were always the same club. They started as CC, then added the SCA name to apply to their better teams so that the higher level teams would play for the Academy brand and the lower level teams played Crown City.  I would have been surprised to hear that they separated and became two clubs as that would have made no sense since they are run by the same people.


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## ultimate20 (Mar 21, 2018)

What will happen to teams like FC Valencia 04 SWAP when they move to CSL?  They would have likely moved up to flight 1 in SCDSL as a second place team, will they be placed in Silver, silver elite...?  They have an 03 team that finished 2nd as well in Flight 2.


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## RedCard (Mar 21, 2018)

Dummy said:


> Crown City and So Cal Academy appear to be the same club.  They have the same board of directors, they practice on the same fields, they appear to have applied to SCDSL as a single organization because they are listed as a single club on the SCDSL website.  What would make them separate clubs?


Crown City will be the boys side and SoCal Academy will be the girls side. Any Crown City girl teams left will be renamed SoCal Academy


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## Dummy (Mar 21, 2018)

RedCard said:


> Looks like Crown City and SoCal Academy are also moving from the CSL to SCDSL.


Cool - so one club with “Crown City United”=“Boys” and “SoCal Academy”=“Girls”. Probably simpler just to have one name and boys and girls divisions like other clubs.


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## Eagle33 (Mar 21, 2018)

Dummy said:


> Cool - so one club with “Crown City United”=“Boys” and “SoCal Academy”=“Girls”. Probably simpler just to have one name and boys and girls divisions like other clubs.


Anything with the word "academy" in it brings more revenue. Don't you understand?


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 21, 2018)

Dummy said:


> It’s there.  “Crown City United/So Cal Academy”.


That was quick.


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 21, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> As far as I know, they were always the same club. They started as CC, then added the SCA name to apply to their better teams so that the higher level teams would play for the Academy brand and the lower level teams played Crown City.  I would have been surprised to hear that they separated and became two clubs as that would have made no sense since they are run by the same people.


Thinking about it now I do recall a mention of them merging. But I also remember them being separate, but all of it is a bit fuzzy. Hell, I don't know. Man, time moves. What I don't get is why they present themselves as two separate entities. From having two different names (club), separate websites, all the way to two different uniform kits, etc.


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 21, 2018)

RedCard said:


> Crown City will be the boys side and SoCal Academy will be the girls side. Any Crown City girl teams left will be renamed SoCal Academy


Now this makes sense as to having two different names.


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## silverstreak (Mar 21, 2018)

Raggamufin said:


> Maybe because they got in the Super Y League .




Isnt the super y-league like a 5 x fail ?? I mean the clubs I see posted joining aren't even relevant in most age groups when you talk about high-quality or even coaches in particular clubs that cannot develop soccer.  Nothing super about it unless that is you feed your parents a bunch of mumbo jumbo.


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## Sheriff Joe (Mar 21, 2018)

ultimate20 said:


> I see SCDSL has some new Clubs like FRAM on the Club directory, and a few clubs are not on the list any longer.  Was this a choice on their part to move to CSL, or were they dropped from SCDSL?


There were fram teams in CSL last year.


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## jrcaesar (Mar 21, 2018)

ultimate20 said:


> What will happen to teams like FC Valencia 04 SWAP when they move to CSL? They would have likely moved up to flight 1 in SCDSL as a second place team, will they be placed in Silver, silver elite...? They have an 03 team that finished 2nd as well in Flight 2.


SCDSL doesn't advance or relegate teams - that's up to the club's DOC. However, the CSL bylaws allow for placing "_new teams_" or "_a premier team from another gaming circuit ... defined as a “Premier, Gold or Silver Elite” level team_" in different brackets for competitive balance. So short answer: It depends.


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## Dos Equis (Mar 21, 2018)

silverstreak said:


> Isnt the super y-league like a 5 x fail ?? I mean the clubs I see posted joining aren't even relevant in most age groups when you talk about high-quality or even coaches in particular clubs that cannot develop soccer.  Nothing super about it unless that is you feed your parents a bunch of mumbo jumbo.


Could you clarify the failure of this league? I am not familiar with the league, and a review of  the website seems to imply this is just a two-month series of games over the summer, with some hope of USL exposure in December? Given the declining and uncertain nature of competition in most Socal summer tournaments, knowing who you are playing, and having a carrot at the end, seems a reaonable choice. Perhaps not a major coup, but what is the downside?


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## TangoCity (Mar 21, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> There were fram teams in CSL last year.


Yes -- some good ones.  With FRAM and SoCal Academy leaving CSL that could open up some slots in the upper divisions of certain age groups.  I know a few other clubs I'd like to see leave CSL too.


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## CaliKlines (Mar 21, 2018)

toucan said:


> So it seems to me that Socal Academy is still a "club within a club," in that it manages its own teams separately, but is merged with CCU for registration and administrative outsourcing.


Brings new meaning to the phrase "Mes Que Un Club".


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## USC (Mar 21, 2018)

TangoCity said:


> Yes -- some good ones.  With FRAM and SoCal Academy leaving CSL that could open up some slots in the upper divisions of certain age groups.  I know a few other clubs I'd like to see leave CSL too.


Which ones?


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## Slammerdad (Mar 22, 2018)

USC said:


> Which ones?


Not sure who has gravitated over but it looks like one of their better coaches for G03 and other girl teams (Treena Bozart) has moved her team(s) over to the CDA Slammers.  Maybe it was due to disagreement with the FRAM club or maybe to play in the SCDSL over CSL.  Before anyone attacks me, I am going on pure speculation and have no inside knowledge.


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 22, 2018)

Slammerdad said:


> Not sure who has gravitated over but it looks like one of their better coaches for G03 and other girl teams (Treena Bozart) has moved her team(s) over to the CDA Slammers.  Maybe it was due to disagreement with the FRAM club or maybe to play in the SCDSL over CSL.  Before anyone attacks me, I am going on pure speculation and have no inside knowledge.


FRAM in the last two months has had two other coaches leave. One also to CDA Slammers SB and another to Beach SB.


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## MWN (Mar 22, 2018)

Slammerdad said:


> Not sure who has gravitated over but it looks like one of their better coaches for G03 and other girl teams (Treena Bozart) has moved her team(s) over to the CDA Slammers.  Maybe it was due to disagreement with the FRAM club or maybe to play in the SCDSL over CSL.  Before anyone attacks me, I am going on pure speculation and have no inside knowledge.


Unlikely it has anything to do with SCDSL because CDA Slammers FC plays in SCDSL, although maybe some teams play in CSL, like South Bay.


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## Overtime (Mar 22, 2018)

Slammerdad said:


> Not sure who has gravitated over but it looks like one of their better coaches for G03 and other girl teams (Treena Bozart) has moved her team(s) over to the CDA Slammers.  Maybe it was due to disagreement with the FRAM club or maybe to play in the SCDSL over CSL.  Before anyone attacks me, I am going on pure speculation and have no inside knowledge.


It was due to inequality of pay between male and female coaches at Fram.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Mar 22, 2018)

silverstreak said:


> Isnt the super y-league like a 5 x fail ?? I mean the clubs I see posted joining aren't even relevant in most age groups when you talk about high-quality or even coaches in particular clubs that cannot develop soccer.  Nothing super about it unless that is you feed your parents a bunch of mumbo jumbo.



With 5 teams currently. Shouldn't it be called the Super Y Round-Robin?


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## TangoCity (Mar 22, 2018)

USC said:


> Which ones?


G04 Fram won one of the Silver-Elite divisions with a nice record.  They would have been bumped to Gold or even Premier if that division opens up.  G04 SoCal Academy played Gold and won League Cup.  They would be bumped to Premier next year if that division opens up.  Two good G04 teams lost in CSL right there.  I hate to see the good teams go but there are a few of the dirty ones I would like to see go too.


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## No Shin Guards (Mar 22, 2018)

Please, someone, tell me why any club will sign up for the "Y" me league, some of the clubs with older players will not go to the Surf tournament or any other high profile tournaments where very good college scouting occurs, because they will be playing at the Y league or will not have the budget to do both. My personal opinion it will not help on the girl's side but on the boy's side is a different story they will have the Usl to look forward if education is not the main focus.


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## MWN (Mar 23, 2018)

No Shin Guards said:


> Please, someone, tell me why any club will sign up for the "Y" me league, some of the clubs with older players will not go to the Surf tournament or any other high profile tournaments where very good college scouting occurs, because they will be playing at the Y league or will not have the budget to do both. My personal opinion it will not help on the girl's side but on the boy's side is a different story they will have the Usl to look forward if education is not the main focus.


I disagree that it won't help girls.  Here is why:

First, the Super-Y league is not an all-inclusive league on the same level of Presidio, SCDSL or CSL.  It is intended to be similar to leagues such as, ECNL, CRL, NPL, DPL, EGSL, etc.  Clubs joining the Super-Y league simply have another venue for some of their top talent (players on the "elite" path) to play in.  Those same teams may play in CSL-Premier or SCDSL Champions (3 months Sept-Nov), Super-Y (2 months June-July), NPL (Mar-May) etc.  If you really want to view it through a good lens, then think of the Super-Y league as a summer National Tournament Series, with the top teams being invited to play in the December "Super Y National Championship" in Florida each year.

Second, it helps with identification on both the boys and girls side because it is limited to only the "top" teams.  

With regard to "girls" the play is simply getting your elite girls in front of additional college coaches in December and being on a Super Y team (just like a CRL, ECNL team is resume bling).  From a club perspective it also provide a safety net for top talent.  If a team doesn't make the CRL, they continue to have opportunities in SuperY.  (list of college coaches from last year's finals - https://www.sylsoccer.com/2017-finals-scouts)

With regard to boys, the play is even better because Super Y (y stands for Youth) is the youth program for the USL's amateur and professional tiers (PDL --> USL Div. 3 --> USL Div. 2).  Boys registered in the SuperY league are in a baby DA type league (attached to USL).  You will see clubs with Academy programs consider putting their off-year DA teams and/or their Academy II teams in NPL (spring) and then SuperY (summer).  Its a carrot for these players to stick with the club.  For those clubs without a DA program (like the founding 5), it gives them a sales pitch that let's parents know they boys are in a league within a professional path and USL scouts and coaches will be watching the development of these players.

Finally, the only losers with the announcement of the Super Y are those tournaments that seek to bring in some of the better teams, which may be conflicted out.  It should not impact tournaments in August (Surf Cup) because its easy to schedule around that weekend.  With 5 teams (today ... there will likely be more before June), you have 8 games if they play each team twice and 26 play dates (13 weekends) to figure it out, which makes it easy to schedule around CRL play dates and Surf Cup.


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## Tomnchar (Mar 23, 2018)

There may be some benefit for the boys in SYL, but I have to agree with No Shin Guards that there is no benefit for the girls. The college coach list for SYL has 18 coaches. I'd rather spend my money going to tournaments like Surf and showcases like Legends that offer 300-400 coaches without the cost of having to travel to Florida. SYL may be intending to be at the caliber of some of the leagues you mentiom, but unfortunately several of those teams are not at that level, just look at where they placed in league and National Cup. I'd much rather be spending my time and money scrimmaging some of the ECNL teams and other top teams at our age then participating in SYL. It would have been nice if our club had asked us our opinion before committing us to this.


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## Toch (Mar 26, 2018)

The creation of SCDSL was good for CSL to stop being complacent. The problem that this created was a watered down product. SCDSL has slowly been morphing into s*C*d*SL*. It is going in favor of everything they said they didn’t like about Coast. In CSL light you have promotion and relegations into the champions bracket (premier)


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## Toch (Mar 26, 2018)

The creation of SCDSL was good for CSL to stop being complacent. The problem that this created was a watered down product. SCDSL has slowly been morphing into s*C*d*SL*.


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