# Average Teams That Overrate Themselves



## Woodwork (Jun 22, 2022)

Is this the true worst kind of team?

I am talking about the team that is average, middle of Discovery or Premier at best, but puts everyone out to go to stay-and-play events up to 3000 miles away costing each player's parent's thousands in money and travel time (and sometimes at the cost of other things like grades).  These teams would be ranked 80th or 90th if YSR was still around (it had a value at least as a reality check).

I am talking about teams that suck players/parents into thinking they are getting similar exposure to ECNL but are holding its best players back.  Even if a recruiter showed to watch this team bomb out of group play at these events, the player would have to stand out while losing 0-5 because the other players on the field are below average.

I think ECNL doesn't really justify its cost either, in a cost benefit sense, for those not standing out in the lower end teams.  But the coaches of teams finishing in the middle of what is effectively a third-tier, but having the team go across the country to bomb out, these coaches are the real snake-oil salesmen.  Just stop it.  Compete locally and look for better competition once you actually win something.  Otherwise, let your best players know that they may be better off somewhere else.


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## timbuck (Jun 23, 2022)

Sometimes it's not the coaches fault.  Sometimes the parents demand it.  They are happy with the local club they play on.  It's probably a grand or so cheaper than the "mega club" down the street.
Sometimes the players say "We want to travel to a tournament."


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## tabletop (Jun 23, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> Is this the true worst kind of team?
> 
> I am talking about the team that is average, middle of Discovery or Premier at best, but puts everyone out to go to stay-and-play events up to 3000 miles away costing each player's parent's thousands in money and travel time (and sometimes at the cost of other things like grades).  These teams would be ranked 80th or 90th if YSR was still around (it had a value at least as a reality check).
> 
> ...


Your hypothetical is likely based on actual events and in today's landscape it probably would make more sense to compete in local showcases rather than travel 3000 miles away for similar exposure.


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## Grace T. (Jun 23, 2022)

On the older boys end, almost any of the higher teams that are not an MLS Academy or the handful of teams that can keep up with them (e.g. some of the MLS Strikers teams) is an "average team that overrate themselves".


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## Yak (Jun 23, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> On the older boys end, almost any of the higher teams that are not an MLS Academy or the handful of teams that can keep up with them (e.g. some of the MLS Strikers teams) is an "average team that overrate themselves".


That may be true if the only objective is to play in a top professional league but many boys from non-MLS teams are playing in college, including D1.  Recruitment at tournaments is more geared towards college than pro teams.


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## Woodwork (Jun 23, 2022)

timbuck said:


> Sometimes it's not the coaches fault.  Sometimes the parents demand it.  They are happy with the local club they play on.  It's probably a grand or so cheaper than the "mega club" down the street.
> Sometimes the players say "We want to travel to a tournament."


To which the coach should say:

"Ha ha.  Oh wait, you're serious?  You know we are not a very good team, right?"

"Absolutely.  Las Vegas or Oceanside?  Because the same teams will be there."

"I know high school grades don't seem important to you now, but that's the weekend before finals.  Even if you somehow managed that, it would be irresponsible to plan something for that weekend, especially for the other players who have no hope of playing soccer to get into college."

"You know, I think it would be good for you to be exposed to a national event with a competitive team.  Let me reach out to some other coaches to set you up with a guest spot on a team going to a showcase in Las Vegas."

"Let's do it.  Give me a couple months to get some guest players to replace you."

"Let me save you some time.  Give me $2,500 and I'll let you watch me flush it down the toilet behind concessions."

"I'm sorry about what I did to you and I'm sorry that it's probably too late now to fix it."


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## Grace T. (Jun 23, 2022)

Yak said:


> That may be true if the only objective is to play in a top professional league but many boys from non-MLS teams are playing in college, including D1.  Recruitment at tournaments is more geared towards college than pro teams.


OK but the overwhelming number of players from LAFC and LA Galaxy academy do not make the "top professional league".  You can count the number of homegrown players for the La Galaxy first team on one hand...for Los Dos it's more but I'm not sure Los Dos would be considered top professional. I was more addressing the title the OP put up, which on the boys end applies to pretty much all of the second tier MLS teams and below.


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## golazo7 (Jun 23, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> On the older boys end, almost any of the higher teams that are not an MLS Academy or the handful of teams that can keep up with them (e.g. some of the MLS Strikers teams) is an "average team that overrate themselves".


Sorry for the tangent, but are you singling out the Strikers teams based on their record or personal experience or both? Also wondering what their style of play is like if you’ve seen them play


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## Grace T. (Jun 23, 2022)

golazo7 said:


> Sorry for the tangent, but are you singling out the Strikers teams based on their record or personal experience or both? Also wondering what their style of play is like if you’ve seen them play


Both.  Have seen a couple of their teams go up against Real Salt Lake, LAFC, and the Galaxy and win.  If you look at the standings, they are regularly at the top of their brackets.  There are other teams that can hold their own against the academy teams too, but that club in particular seems to be able to build them.  

My impression is most (not all) of the MLS Academy teams in that age group on the upper end of the brackets have a similar style of play: it's neither pure possession, nor run/long ball (like the system which TFA so famously used to destroy Manchester at MIC).  While they all have a different emphasis here and there (such as whether the GK will punt and how often), it's probably best described as the "American academy style" which has become somewhat possession oriented.  You get more variation at the lower and younger levels because the back aren't strong enough to maintain a possession game, and therefore coaches are forced to use techniques to hide their players weaknesses.


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Jun 24, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> OK but the overwhelming number of players from LAFC and LA Galaxy academy do not make the "top professional league".


I remember reading that only 0.5% of academy players in Europe make ANY money playing ANY level of professional soccer. (We are talking all the way down to tier 4, 5 and below...)

And in England, only 180 of 1.5 MILLION boys who play organized youth soccer today will ever get on a Premier League roster. (That's 0.012%)

I assume most MLS youth academy players face the same fate here in the US.
You've got to be head and shoulders above your teammates while playing up 1-2 years to have any shot at making an MLS team.


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## dad4 (Jun 27, 2022)

It’s just the way we are.   Each of us remembers his day in the sun and see that as the real self.  

The real me is the athletic kid who hit two home runs in one game.  I’m certainly not that guy with a .140 batting average overall.  

My daughter’s soccer team?  Top notch.  They made a serious run at state cup 3 years ago and would have won it all if not for that bad offside call in semi-finals.   

My son?  Straight A student in 8th grade.  But you know, college isn’t for everyone, and the lawyer tells us that the arrest was pure entrapment.  That boy is gonna do amazing things, just like his old man.

Given all that, are you surprised that thirty teams see themselves as in the top ten?


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## socalkdg (Jun 27, 2022)

We had a choice of going to Surf Cup or playing at Silverlakes for the Summer Showcase.   Most parents live in Corona.   Daughter already committed so we would do whatever the team wanted.   Surf Cup is Surf Cup,  but they wanted 10 rooms reserved.  So total for the team including team fees but not including gas was going to be about $750 per family.   The Summer Showcase will run $150 per family and no cost for gas.  Big negative is the heat.   

I'd put us at the top of Premier or Discover, similar to an average ECRL team, but can't see more than 3-4 girls playing college.   I imagine these same type of parents you describe probably over estimate how good their player is as well.  Probably the toughest thing is to evaluate how good your kid is.


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Jun 27, 2022)

dad4 said:


> It’s just the way we are.   Each of us remembers his day in the sun and see that as the real self.
> 
> The real me is the athletic kid who hit two home runs in one game.  I’m certainly not that guy with a .140 batting average overall.
> 
> ...


Still reliving that bad offside call from 3 years ago? lol.  they would have won if they hadn't shanked those two other open goal opportunities.  And i don't even know you or that game, but I can just imagine...  My daughter's team would have won their first game this weekend if they could have just found the back of the goal.  And yeah, i'm a ref, so i'm biased for refs.


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## dad4 (Jun 27, 2022)

Soccer Dad & Ref said:


> Still reliving that bad offside call from 3 years ago? lol.  they would have won if they hadn't shanked those two other open goal opportunities.  And i don't even know you or that game, but I can just imagine...  My daughter's team would have won their first game this weekend if they could have just found the back of the goal.  And yeah, i'm a ref, so i'm biased for refs.


If you’re going to believe everything I wrote in that post, then the least you could do is wish my son luck at his court hearing.


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Jun 27, 2022)

dad4 said:


> If you’re going to believe everything I wrote in that post, then the least you could do is wish my son luck at his court hearing.


I read the rest of your post, and was wondering about that, then just assumed you had some personal issues at home i shouldn't comment on, lol.


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## Simisoccerfan (Jun 27, 2022)

On the girl's side the reality is very few players ever make it to play in college.  Even less in D1.  A strong ECNL team which is the best of the best is lucky to end up with half of the girls playing D1 (though more will play at D2 etc.)  Most D1 teams have 30+ players with only maybe 20-22 traveling and maybe 3-4 subs getting meaningful minutes.   Only 14 full scholarships to share if fully funded.  So the path from an above average younger youth team to meaningful D1 minutes is very difficult and you are kid is not likely going to make it there from an average premier of discovery team.   Anyone that is selling you on spending the money on these level of teams with the idea it will lead there is just trying to make money off of you.  Get your daughter on a ECNL or a GDA team.  If they can hang there then spend the money.


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## Woodwork (Jun 27, 2022)

socalkdg said:


> We had a choice of going to Surf Cup or playing at Silverlakes for the Summer Showcase.   Most parents live in Corona.   Daughter already committed so we would do whatever the team wanted.   Surf Cup is Surf Cup,  but they wanted 10 rooms reserved.  So total for the team including team fees but not including gas was going to be about $750 per family.   The Summer Showcase will run $150 per family and no cost for gas.  Big negative is the heat.
> 
> I'd put us at the top of Premier or Discover, similar to an average ECRL team, but can't see more than 3-4 girls playing college.   I imagine these same type of parents you describe probably over estimate how good their player is as well.  Probably the toughest thing is to evaluate how good your kid is.


The type of team I am thinking of didn't get in to Surf Cup or Silverlakes but are asked to pony up for plane tickets.


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## Woodwork (Jun 27, 2022)

dad4 said:


> It’s just the way we are.   Each of us remembers his day in the sun and see that as the real self.
> ...
> 
> Given all that, are you surprised that thirty teams see themselves as in the top ten?


All good cons exploit the egos of their victims. Parents and players may have responsibility to not let their egos get the best of them, sure, but the coaches know better.  I feel sorry for the parents and players that fall for the con.


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Jun 29, 2022)

socalkdg said:


> Surf Cup is Surf Cup,  but they wanted 10 rooms reserved.  So total for the team including team fees but not including gas was going to be about $750 per family.


A lot of teams from LA/OC get stay to play waived. Maybe it's for clubs entering a lot of teams? Not sure. 
If they need one more team in the bracket or something, I can't imagine them not working with you to waive that... 
Commuting from Corona wouldn't be so terrible - down the 15 to the 76 should take just over an hour with no traffic (no guarantees with traffic...)



socalkdg said:


> Big negative is the heat.


The heat in Silverlakes is unbearable. 
But so is $750/family... -_-


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## Mosafie (Jul 1, 2022)

I know a couple of real good soccer players that turned down playing college soccer when they came to the realization that it would be difficult to major in a rigorous STEM subject while playing soccer in college. It's tough to make that choice they have played it for so many years.


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## CR11 (Oct 5, 2022)

Is this worse, or better, than a team that was at highest level last year, keeps the same roster, dropped down 2 levels, and now wins 14-0, 9-0, 8-0. Yet on their website, they still claim the team is at the top level. How is this good for anyone?


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## Grace T. (Oct 5, 2022)

CR11 said:


> Is this worse, or better, than a team that was at highest level last year, keeps the same roster, dropped down 2 levels, and now wins 14-0, 9-0, 8-0. Yet on their website, they still claim the team is at the top level. How is this good for anyone?


If its olders, "highest level" for the girls is an ECNL team, and for the boys is either an MLS Next or ECNL team, how'd the team possibly drop out of those leagues without the club losing its spot???  If it's Coast, they usually won't let them do that.  If it's Socal, I can see a team dropping NPL because of the costs and the commutes.  It would have to be a youngers in SoCal, and if so, the danger in dropping from NPL to flight 2, or flight 1 to flight 3, is you'll lose all the players wanting to go to a higher level, particularly since if the team played at the highest level, the players are easy recruits from ECNL/MLS Teams as they get older.  Doesn't seem very realistic...unless they are the very youngest, did this really happen?  It seems like a sure fire way to lose the best in your squad.


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## Woodwork (Oct 6, 2022)

CR11 said:


> Is this worse, or better, than a team that was at highest level last year, keeps the same roster, dropped down 2 levels, and now wins 14-0, 9-0, 8-0. Yet on their website, they still claim the team is at the top level. How is this good for anyone?


It is worse because of cost, time, stress, and because of deceit (college recruitment etc).  In your scenario, the parents from players on the same roster know what is going on and can change teams if they want college exposure.  In my scenario, they put money, time, hopes, and trust into a coach that tells them they are going to get exposure at some high level event and they fall for it (and, yes, parents have some blame but so does every "sucker" in a con).


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## Coach_JimmyZ (Oct 6, 2022)

definitely catches your attention when a team in a SoCal Flight 3 bracket has half their roster with E64 patches on their sleeve


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## CR11 (Oct 6, 2022)

Coach_JimmyZ said:


> definitely catches your attention when a team in a SoCal Flight 3 bracket has half their roster with E64 patches on their sleeve


yes it does. and when their roster is almost exactly the same as last year's "NPL" team, same coach,  and SoCAL GotSoccer ranking is pretty high, and the ranking page calls them a NPL team last year. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, as there must be a reason why they are now i F2/3, but a little odd.


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## Grace T. (Oct 6, 2022)

Coach_JimmyZ said:


> definitely catches your attention when a team in a SoCal Flight 3 bracket has half their roster with E64 patches on their sleeve


Is it due to the schedule?  Because of the small amount of teams and distances involved, some of the E64 teams aren't getting games every weekend.  Clubs shuffling them around so they can get some play/practice time on downweekends and to fill out rosters of lower level teams?


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## Coach_JimmyZ (Oct 6, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> Is it due to the schedule?  Because of the small amount of teams and distances involved, some of the E64 teams aren't getting games every weekend.  Clubs shuffling them around so they can get some play/practice time on downweekends and to fill out rosters of lower level teams?


yeah that's all good for getting players extra playing time. i just didn't expect that in a flight 3 game. i'd figure players with patches on their sleeves would be playing Flight 1 or Flight 2. at the end of the day, i'll just chalk it up to a learning experience for my team.


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## Code (Oct 8, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> Is this the true worst kind of team?
> 
> I am talking about the team that is average, middle of Discovery or Premier at best, but puts everyone out to go to stay-and-play events up to 3000 miles away costing each player's parent's thousands in money and travel time (and sometimes at the cost of other things like grades).  These teams would be ranked 80th or 90th if YSR was still around (it had a value at least as a reality check).
> 
> ...



YSR still exists, it an app now instead of a website.  The app is called Soccer Rankings.  It does need some help sorting out teams though; many of the franchise clubs are all mixed up or not properly identified.  Aside from the few mix ups, the predictions have been surprising accurate so far this season


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## Keeperkat (Oct 9, 2022)

Code said:


> YSR still exists, it an app now instead of a website.  The app is called Soccer Rankings.  It does need some help sorting out teams though; many of the franchise clubs are all mixed up or not properly identified.  Aside from the few mix ups, the predictions have been surprising accurate so far this season


The app is great and as I heard, is created by the same guy as YSR.  In order to sort out any issues with your team, you have to have a paid membership ($10 a year) then it is pretty damn cool and better than the old one.  I would love to talk to the guy about his algorithms because the app is pretty accurate when all sources are appropriately applied and even given certain teams with new players added.


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## lafalafa (Oct 9, 2022)

Youth soccer has so many different tournaments, leagues, flights, levels, showcase, post season events to make people happy about winning but it's really about the players getting experience and having some fun learning.

If only the top tier teams played tournaments, clubs would lose $$ and the other 2/3rd of the players wouldn't want to pay those high fees.

Self over rate? Yeah maybe but showing positive improvement or over achievement at a tournament is always a possibility so that's why some play the game


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## Woodwork (Oct 9, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> Youth soccer has so many different tournaments, leagues, flights, levels, showcase, post season events to make people happy about winning but it's really about the players getting experience and having some fun learning.
> 
> If only the top tier teams played tournaments, clubs would lose $$ and the other 2/3rd of the players wouldn't want to pay those high fees.
> 
> Self over rate? Yeah maybe but showing positive improvement or over achievement at a tournament is always a possibility so that's why some play the game


The word "possibility" overstates the averageness of certain teams.  Playing the lowest ECNL team 100 times, they would lose 100 times.  So their coach politics his way to get entry into competitions where great non-ECNL teams try to stand out.  Not earned.  Taking advantage of the disarray at Cal South.

The well-documented result of this (videos available at Vimeo) show kids giving up on the field.  Kicking the ball out of bounds instead of passing.  Walking, walking, walking instead of taking two steps one way or another to open up.  There was no fun to be seen.

Parents flushing away money that could be used for college.  Players flushing away the most important development and scouting time of their lives.


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## lafalafa (Oct 10, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> The word "possibility" overstates the averageness of certain teams.  Playing the lowest ECNL team 100 times, they would lose 100 times.  So their coach politics his way to get entry into competitions where great non-ECNL teams try to stand out.  Not earned.  Taking advantage of the disarray at Cal South.
> 
> The well-documented result of this (videos available at Vimeo) show kids giving up on the field.  Kicking the ball out of bounds instead of passing.  Walking, walking, walking instead of taking two steps one way or another to open up.  There was no fun to be seen.
> 
> Parents flushing away money that could be used for college.  Players flushing away the most important development and scouting time of their lives.


Yeah the big majority of teams don't win tournaments so they all should skip them?  

Small % of students are honor or APs so should all the rest not strive to get better, improve, tutor and improve to get to that level?

Youth soccer is all about the possibilities, yeah some are well over matched or over stated but that's same as the real world.

Almost everybody likes a underdog and seen many of teams overcome adversity, step up, get better, learn and have fun doing that.

It's almost always more rewarding for the player and teams to do well or beat higher ranked teams vs the other way around.  The motivation factor and competition brings it out with some.

Do some spend too much, travel, or enter too many tournaments yeah maybe they do but then again some people pay thousands for school tutors, services, private training, etc..

The tournament that have selective acceptance can be better for the higher level teams.

This is funny 'Playing the lowest ECNL team 100 times, they would lose 100 times"

Talk about overrating, youth soccer is full of surprises but you have to wonder why some so called higher level teams enter tournaments that don't have the competition level their playing now.

ECNL teams playing non ones, 1-4 of those vs the other 100 teams in the tournament. Some would say that's sand bagging and they should stick with the higher levels ones like surf, Jefferson, Dallas, etc so it really goes both ways.


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## Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr (Oct 10, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> The word "possibility" overstates the averageness of certain teams.  *Playing the lowest ECNL team 100 times, they would lose 100 times.  *So their coach politics his way to get entry into competitions where great non-ECNL teams try to stand out.  Not earned.  Taking advantage of the disarray at Cal South.
> 
> The well-documented result of this (videos available at Vimeo) show kids giving up on the field.  Kicking the ball out of bounds instead of passing.  Walking, walking, walking instead of taking two steps one way or another to open up.  There was no fun to be seen.
> 
> Parents flushing away money that could be used for college.  Players flushing away the most important development and scouting time of their lives.


With respect to your statement in bold, don't be so sure. There are some low ECNL (boys/girls)/MLS Next/GA teams that would definitely lose more often than not to "lower league" teams that are even middle of the pack. The reality is that there are very few good teams with good coaches and committed players even at what we all perceive as the highest leagues. That's why the work a player does outside of their club team is essential.


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## Woodwork (Oct 10, 2022)

Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr said:


> With respect to your statement in bold, don't be so sure. There are some low ECNL (boys/girls)/MLS Next/GA teams that would definitely lose more often than not to "lower league" teams that are even middle of the pack. The reality is that there are very few good teams with good coaches and committed players even at what we all perceive as the highest leagues. That's why the work a player does outside of their club team is essential.


I'm well aware of the bottom of the ECNL pack.  The average team I am describing would lose to the bottom ECNL team every time.


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## Woodwork (Oct 10, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> Yeah the big majority of teams don't win tournaments so they all should skip them?
> 
> Small % of students are honor or APs so should all the rest not strive to get better, improve, tutor and improve to get to that level?
> 
> ...


They don't have to fly 3000 miles to get blown out by 7 non-ECNL, non-ECRL, non-GA teams.

You don't get recruited by walking around on the field with your head down as the other team passes around you and scores 8 goals, and that is repeated 7 times against unremarkable teams.

I'm sorry, are you defending a coach who convinces (or requires) a team to do these things?

Hello coach.


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## lafalafa (Oct 10, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> They don't have to fly 3000 miles to get blown out by 7 non-ECNL, non-ECRL, non-GA teams.
> 
> You don't get recruited by walking around on the field with your head down as the other team passes around you and scores 8 goals, and that is repeated 7 times against unremarkable teams.
> ``
> ...


What are you talking about something in your head? 

My players are both in college, one plays and the other is a soon to be graduating medical student. 

Every players on both there teams where recruited regardless of flying cross country ot blowing out other teams. 

Youth sports is a 20 billion dollars industry, parents have some disposable income and they spend but 100% agree some get left out due to economics 









						The multibillion-dollar youth sports industry is leaving lots of kids on the sidelines
					

In "Take Back the Game," Linda Flanagan looks at how the growing youth sports industry has become a recipe for haves and have-nots.



					www.marketplace.org
				




I guess you have/had  some prior experience on travel and tournaments you don't think are worth it.    Fine to share and others may feel the same way. 

The chip on your shoulder is big don't let it cloud your opinions on how others want to educate or spend on youth sports entertainment.


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## Woodwork (Oct 10, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> What are you talking about something in your head?
> 
> My players are both in college, one plays and the other is a soon to be graduating medical student.
> 
> ...


There's a sucker born every minute, right coach?  Let the suckers spend the money how they want, and heaven forbid calling these coaches out on selling a bill of goods but not delivering on a forum.

Don't worry about my judgment.  Fully funded elite athletes don't worry about these things for themselves.


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## lafalafa (Oct 10, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> There's a sucker born every minute, right coach?  Let the suckers spend the money how they want, and heaven forbid calling these coaches out on selling a bill of goods but not delivering on a forum.
> 
> Don't worry about my judgment.  Fully funded elite athletes don't worry about these things for themselves.


Your living in a fantasy island my poster.

Take a break and refocus.

I've been here for many years as a parent posting in case your just realizing your way off..going to the deep end


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## Woodwork (Oct 10, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> Your living in a fantasy island my poster.
> 
> Take a break and refocus.
> 
> I've been here for many years as a parent posting in case your just realizing your way off..going to the deep end


Yet you can't stop responding.

I am a guy typing stuff on the internet expressing the opinion that some coaches are selling snake oil.  Someone call the looney bin!


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## lafalafa (Oct 10, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> Yet you can't stop responding.
> 
> I am a guy typing stuff on the internet expressing the opinion that some coaches are selling snake oil.  Someone call the looney bin!


Ok at least it's a simple point that's nobody's arguing with.   Yes that happens and you really feel burned about some past experiences.  

Good luck with therapy or whatever you need to get over it with on the forums.


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## Woodwork (Oct 10, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> Ok at least it's a simple point that's nobody's arguing with.   Yes that happens and you really feel burned about some past experiences.
> 
> Good luck with therapy or whatever you need to get over it with on the forums.


You can’t stop posting.
Seek help.
Or brag about your kid in med school like that impresses me


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## lafalafa (Oct 10, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> You can’t stop posting.
> Seek help.
> Or brag about your kid in med school like that impresses me


Kettle....I think so somebody is calling out your thread...what a title


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## Woodwork (Oct 10, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> Kettle....someone doesn't care


You can’t stop 
Seek help


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## lafalafa (Oct 10, 2022)

So to summarize the wood

"some coaches are selling snake oil"

thanks for your revelation, none of us would have ever guessed that a OP could post so many time over 3 pages with a title like that before making a point but yeah no body arguing the soccer traveling is a buyer beware kind of thing.


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## SuperSoccerStar (Oct 10, 2022)

I’m so glad this website is back!!!! Love it!!!


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## Woodwork (Oct 11, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> So to summarize the wood
> 
> "some coaches are selling snake oil"
> 
> thanks for your revelation, none of us would have ever guessed that a OP could post so many time over 3 pages with a title like that before making a point but yeah no body arguing the soccer traveling is a buyer beware kind of thing.


It is my thread, and thus I am engaged in the conversation.  I find it interesting enough to respond.  You say you don't, but yet here you are, posting over and over.  Amazing how this gets under your skin.  Seek help.

Welcome to this site.  1/2 the threads are some variation of parents encountering some instance of their experience not matching what the club or coach is/was selling.  If you don't like that, maybe respond to another thread or get a life instead of personally attacking posters.

Welcome to the internet.  People are going to post opinions and post about experiences that are different from yours, but no less valid.  Their world isn't fantasy.  Your experience and theirs are equally valid.  If that upsets you, ask yourself why.

I fully expect you to respond, again, with absolutely nothing of value except to attack me.  You are blocked, so I won't notice.  You will feel like you have the last word, so your psychosis should hopefully be satisfied.

And, for the record, not my kid's team I am complaining about, but one that has completely screwed some quality players she knows who likely would have had better opportunities that are mostly gone.  The direct video evidence of what happened was viewed by me and the indirect evidence of the outcomes is relayed to me.  Yes, that bugs me enough to post about it.  Again, why post?  Because that's why forums exist.  To express ourselves.

Crazy to me that you don't seem to have any kids in club but this is how you spend your time, as a professional internet troll.


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## lafalafa (Oct 11, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> It is my thread, and thus I am engaged in the conversation.  I find it interesting enough to respond.  You say you don't, but yet here you are, posting over and over.  Amazing how this gets under your skin.  Seek help.
> 
> Welcome to this site.  1/2 the threads are some variation of parents encountering some instance of their experience not matching what the club or coach is/was selling.  If you don't like that, maybe respond to another thread or get a life instead of personally attacking posters.
> 
> ...


You responded when I mentioned "possibilities" are some of reasons why people play  tournaments.   You couldn't leave my opinion alone an went on  some rant about the so called "suckers" traveling cross country to get blown out.

All you other non sense is amusing but off base just like this whinny post about nothing going on 4 pages but continue on maybe you can  discover another point besides the obvious that everyone knows about.


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## LouSag (Oct 11, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> It is worse because of cost, time, stress, and because of deceit (college recruitment etc).  In your scenario, the parents from players on the same roster know what is going on and can change teams if they want college exposure.  In my scenario, they put money, time, hopes, and trust into a coach that tells them they are going to get exposure at some high level event and they fall for it (and, yes, parents have some blame but so does every "sucker" in a con).


This has been going on in Temecula and Murrieta for years.  First at Legends South (name change to Temecula Valley Legends) and now at Murrieta Soccer Academy (formerly Murrieta Surf).  Snake oil salesmen (and women) at both clubs for sure.  Combine that with clueless parents that have no idea what a Flight 1 team means, DPL, ECRL promises, etc…They have truly taken been taken advantage of.  The smart parents, and best players left a long time ago.


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## Woodwork (Oct 11, 2022)

LouSag said:


> This has been going on in Temecula and Murrieta for years.  First at Legends South (name change to Temecula Valley Legends) and now at Murrieta Soccer Academy (formerly Murrieta Surf).  Snake oil salesmen (and women) at both clubs for sure.  Combine that with clueless parents that have no idea what a Flight 1 team means, DPL, ECRL promises, etc…They have truly taken been taken advantage of.  The smart parents, and best players left a long time ago.


That's unfortunate.  I think it is hard for even smart parents to see it sometimes because, especially as they get older when it matters most, you don't have head to head competition with the actual top teams to see where you really stand.  The talent exodus to ECNL or other truly competitive can be gradual, so you don't notice the playing quality drop.  But the coaches mostly know what is really going on, so yeah I hold them accountable.


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## MacDre (Oct 11, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> That's unfortunate.  I think it is hard for even smart parents to see it sometimes because, especially as they get older when it matters most, you don't have head to head competition with the actual top teams to see where you really stand.  The talent exodus to ECNL or other truly competitive can be gradual, so you don't notice the playing quality drop.  But the coaches mostly know what is really going on, so yeah I hold them accountable.


It doesn’t matter because it’s essentially a distinction without a difference.  I can almost guarantee you that the vast majority of players on both teams lack technique and have not mastered passing and receiving.

The snake oil is when they tell you they play a “transitional” game in attempt to hide the players bad technique.  The league doesn’t matter since almost all females lack proper technique.


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