# Discovery League- "We've created a monster!!!"



## timbuck (Jul 19, 2021)

Looks like SoCal League (SCDSL) has posted preliminary team assignments for the Fall season.






						Socal Soccer League | Standings
					






					www.socalsoccerleague.org
				




Starting with the 06 age group and older-  It appears that everyone thinks they belong in the Discovery Division.

Just my 2 cents-  But I think the league needs to tell clubs "you can only 1 have team per age group play Discovery.  Decide which one it is. The other can play Flight 1."

I'm sure there will be some movement before the fall season kicks off.


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## Caltek (Jul 19, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Looks like SoCal League (SCDSL) has posted preliminary team assignments for the Fall season.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I saw 32 teams in 06b age group in discovery . No way their are 32 top level teams . It’s pretty ridiculous everyone gets a trophy or say they play top flight .


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## Speed (Jul 19, 2021)

oh my.....what is discovery NPL? no teams are listed there


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## Speed (Jul 19, 2021)

Speed said:


> oh my.....what is discovery NPL? no teams are listed there


NVM I see them


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## pokergod (Jul 19, 2021)

Speed said:


> oh my.....what is discovery NPL? no teams are listed there


Why are teams listed in discovery that have never beaten a flight one team and were average at flight two the year before?  Very strange.


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## Speed (Jul 19, 2021)

pokergod said:


> Why are teams listed in discovery that have never beaten a flight one team and were average at flight two the year before?  Very strange.


Its an error/work in progress. They have no schedules up for the flights. There will be movement I am sure


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## timbuck (Jul 19, 2021)

It's also shocking how many more boys teams there are than girls teams on that list (not necessarily discovery-  Just in general)


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## Curious (Jul 19, 2021)

I wonder if the majority of the teams listed as Discovery will actually play in the Champions Division.


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## timbuck (Jul 19, 2021)

Curious said:


> I wonder if the majority of the teams listed as Discovery will actually play in the Champions Division.


Which begs the question - Why are there multiple levels of "Flight 1"  -  Just rename them Flight 1,2,3.  Take the lipstick off of the pig and call it what it is.


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## dad4 (Jul 20, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Which begs the question - Why are there multiple levels of "Flight 1"  -  Just rename them Flight 1,2,3.  Take the lipstick off of the pig and call it what it is.


So the 10,000th best soccer player in socal can finally make it to flight 1.


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## dreamz (Jul 20, 2021)

Caltek said:


> Yes I saw 32 teams in 06b age group in discovery . No way their are 32 top level teams . It’s pretty ridiculous everyone gets a trophy or say they play top flight .


Kind of like all those clubs and teams playing in other leagues like ECNL, GA, ECRL, DPL, MLS Next that are in those leagues just to say they play in a top league. Coming out of COVID how is anyone supposed to know how their teams will fare during the season so why not take a chance? The majority of those teams would be lower level ECNL, most ECRL, most DPL, most of the EA and some of the MLS Next teams. Just because the don't have a fancy league title to claim being a part of doesn't mean that the teams can't beat those others so why not give it a try post-COVID and let it be decided on the field rather than in a board room?


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## dreamz (Jul 20, 2021)

dad4 said:


> So the 10,000th best soccer player in socal can finally make it to flight 1.


Just like many of the players (even lower than the 10,000the best player) that don't belong playing in all of those other leagues. So they can finally say they made it to one of the ABC leagues. What does it matter? At least the players will be out playing again and we can all enjoy being at their games again. People lose site so easily of what really matters.


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## Caltek (Jul 20, 2021)

dreamz said:


> Kind of like all those clubs and teams playing in other leagues like ECNL, GA, ECRL, DPL, MLS Next that are in those leagues just to say they play in a top league. Coming out of COVID how is anyone supposed to know how their teams will fare during the season so why not take a chance? The majority of those teams would be lower level ECNL, most ECRL, most DPL, most of the EA and some of the MLS Next teams. Just because the don't have a fancy league title to claim being a part of doesn't mean that the teams can't beat those others so why not give it a try post-COVID and let it be decided on the field rather than in a board room?



problem is at least in coast you have to earn your promotion you can’t just say hey I belong here .


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## outside! (Jul 20, 2021)

Caltek said:


> problem is at least in coast you have to earn your promotion you can’t just say hey I belong here .


At one time the only game in town was  USYS National Championships and National League that was open to anyone that could earn the spot.


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## Emma (Jul 20, 2021)

Caltek said:


> problem is at least in coast you have to earn your promotion you can’t just say hey I belong here .


Yes, but parents will blame the league if their child quits because their team isn't promoted.  We live in a culture that tries to pretend every child is equivalent on all levels rather than accepting and being proud of their differences and qualities.  Club DOCs use this to make money with their 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th teams at older age groups in big clubs.   If your child is in the 3rd team after U14, very little chance the child will get a college scholarship no matter what the DOC or coach says.  If they are playing for exercise, that's awesome and stop worrying about what flight they are playing in.


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## dreamz (Jul 20, 2021)

Caltek said:


> problem is at least in coast you have to earn your promotion you can’t just say hey I belong here .


You realize that the Discovery NPL has promotion and relegation too right?


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## Caltek (Jul 20, 2021)

dreamz said:


> You realize that the Discovery NPL has promotion and relegation too right?


So you are saying all the 32 teams were promoted in the 06 b division because I know for a fact that there are teams that were middle of the pack gold team not premiere who are discovery teams now that they moved over leagues and also 3rd or 4th place teams flight one that got promoted to discovery .


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## Primetime (Jul 20, 2021)

Couple thoughts/things on this topic.   The first being that Discovery is a promotion/relegation Division but because of covid and the unusual schedule they decided not to relegate anyone down from last season so that's 4-5 extra teams that are being allowed to stay in.   On that same note because of covid they obviously felt it a little harder to decide/decipher who deserves to move up considering many teams records and play schedules were gonna vary so much.   i.e a 2021 state/national cup deep run isn't quite worth the value it was in past years and same for many other usually renown tourneys.   Throw in the fact that the league just added close to 40 new clubs so trying to sift through all those teams and leagues would create some issues trying to compare.   To me they're taking the fair and rational approach which is pretty simple, if you think you belong have at it and were gonna relegate as many as half of you after this season if need be.  It also came with a caveat of a threat which was if you sign up and get smashed cause you don't belong it wont be taken lightly.   The balance will be right in the universe when this dust settles you'll see whos who.


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## lafalafa (Jul 20, 2021)

All about the $$$ and selling to parents.

Discover that buying a spot into discovery is what went down.

The premium fees for the bracket might be worth as long you don't mind all road games at Silverlakes or the Oside venue.  Lots of paid parking fees, driving ever week if your not local to those places but that's "travel" soccer for you.

Maybe in the following years discovery npl will be more selective or have a committee look at the applications, for now it's DOC submitted,  pay more $ to get in and see what happens.  Could call it flight 1 and it would be same but "flight 1" just doesn't sell like it used to.


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## Primetime (Jul 20, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Which begs the question - Why are there multiple levels of "Flight 1"  -  Just rename them Flight 1,2,3.  Take the lipstick off of the pig and call it what it is.


Just had this debate the other day.   I don't think its quite that simple.   Example If you took the top handful of what i guess would be Discovery teams and put them against or compared to the bottom handful of Flight 2 teams (that's assuming we just throw all of Flight 3 back into Rec) I think there's about a 20 Goal differential and more than 1 level in between those 2 groups which is what would be separating them in your plan.


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## Brav520 (Jul 20, 2021)

Speed said:


> Its an error/work in progress. They have no schedules up for the flights. There will be movement I am sure


I think our coach said they have until mid august to give the league their requested flight ( date could be off )


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## timbuck (Jul 21, 2021)

Primetime said:


> Just had this debate the other day.   I don't think its quite that simple.   Example If you took the top handful of what i guess would be Discovery teams and put them against or compared to the bottom handful of Flight 2 teams (that's assuming we just throw all of Flight 3 back into Rec) I think there's about a 20 Goal differential and more than 1 level in between those 2 groups which is what would be separating them in your plan.


With a flight 1,2,3 model you wouldn't have discovery level teams playing bottom Flight 2 teams.
Right now, SoCal League lists 104 teams in the 2004 age group.
Set it up like this:
28 Teams in Flight 1 (Set up 2 divisions - North and South with 14 teams each)
50 Teams in Flight 2 (Set up 4 divisions by geography - LA, OC, IE, San Diego) 
26 Teams in Flight 3 (Set up 2 divisions - North and South)
The math doesn't quite work perfectly for an equal number of games - But you get my point.  And that point is that most teams are really Flight 2.


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## Brav520 (Jul 21, 2021)

shouldn't in the older age groups the coaches/teams should know by now if they are a F1 or F2 team? 



I see the issue more at the Youngers, 2012 and up but even then if you are playing in summer tournaments you should get a pretty good idea if you can compete with F1 teams or not .


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## timbuck (Jul 21, 2021)

Brav520 said:


> shouldn't in the older age groups the coaches/teams should know by now if they are a F1 or F2 team?
> 
> 
> 
> I see the issue more at the Youngers, 2012 and up but even then if you are playing in summer tournaments you should get a pretty good idea if you can compete with F1 teams or not .


Some times coaches know.  But sometimes, their DOC place them higher because it's a bigger draw for players/parents.


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## Primetime (Jul 21, 2021)

timbuck said:


> With a flight 1,2,3 model you wouldn't have discovery level teams playing bottom Flight 2 teams.
> Right now, SoCal League lists 104 teams in the 2004 age group.
> Set it up like this:
> 28 Teams in Flight 1 (Set up 2 divisions - North and South with 14 teams each)
> ...


I see your point I just think there's more disparity amongst even those groups and numbers to create a competitive environment.   Good example was few years ago I had a Flight 2 team go undefeated in league 12-0, rather easily.   So Naturally we moved up to Flight 1 (same squad) and we didn't win a game 0-11-1.   That's a pretty big gap in levels in my opinion.    Agree the top of flight 2 should still be the bottom of flight 1 and so on but there's a flights difference there.   Everyone wants to look at the idea of entitlement or status as the barometer, its not that complicated.   Even with the 19 Flights and play levels we have now look at the scores and you'll see a very wide range in records and goal differentials at each one which is what should really determine how many levels there are for each age.   

The only argument that holds water is some kids should stay in Rec but even then its not a status thing like oh my kid plays club.  Its an organizational thing.   Why put my mediocre kid in rec where I don't know the practice schedule,


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## Primetime (Jul 21, 2021)

timbuck said:


> With a flight 1,2,3 model you wouldn't have discovery level teams playing bottom Flight 2 teams.
> Right now, SoCal League lists 104 teams in the 2004 age group.
> Set it up like this:
> 28 Teams in Flight 1 (Set up 2 divisions - North and South with 14 teams each)
> ...


I see your point I just think there's more disparity amongst even those groups and numbers to create a competitive environment.   Good example was few years ago I had a Flight 2 team go undefeated in league 12-0, rather easily.   So Naturally we moved up to Flight 1 (same squad) and we didn't win a game 0-11-1.   That's a pretty big gap in levels in my opinion.    Agree the top of flight 2 should still be the bottom of flight 1 and so on but there's a flights difference there.   Everyone wants to look at the idea of entitlement or status as the barometer, its not that complicated.   Even with the 19 Flights and play levels we have now look at the scores and you'll see a very wide range in records and goal differentials at each one which is what should really determine how many levels there are for each age.  

The only argument that holds water is more kids should stay in Rec but even then its not a status thing like oh my kid plays club.  Its an organizational thing.   Why put my mediocre kid in rec where I don't know the practice schedule (were all busy with multiple kids), don't know the coach (in many cases the Rec coach knows zero about soccer), and the environment is not conducive to learning at faster rate.   For a few more bucks I get to hand pick the coach, practice time and location, i get to see the team before hand, its a more competitive environment and they play more games including tournaments vs 1 game on Saturdays.  Doesn't seem like that hard of a choice if you have the time and means.  I'd rather my kid play flight 8 than Rec just because of those few reasons.   At least outside of the initial starter year or two.


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## timbuck (Jul 21, 2021)

Primetime said:


> I see your point I just think there's more disparity amongst even those groups and numbers to create a competitive environment.   Good example was few years ago I had a Flight 2 team go undefeated in league 12-0, rather easily.   So Naturally we moved up to Flight 1 (same squad) and we didn't win a game 0-11-1.   That's a pretty big gap in levels in my opinion.    Agree the top of flight 2 should still be the bottom of flight 1 and so on but there's a flights difference there.   Everyone wants to look at the idea of entitlement or status as the barometer, its not that complicated.   Even with the 19 Flights and play levels we have now look at the scores and you'll see a very wide range in records and goal differentials at each one which is what should really determine how many levels there are for each age.
> 
> The only argument that holds water is more kids should stay in Rec but even then its not a status thing like oh my kid plays club.  Its an organizational thing.   Why put my mediocre kid in rec where I don't know the practice schedule (were all busy with multiple kids), don't know the coach (in many cases the Rec coach knows zero about soccer), and the environment is not conducive to learning at faster rate.   For a few more bucks I get to hand pick the coach, practice time and location, i get to see the team before hand, its a more competitive environment and they play more games including tournaments vs 1 game on Saturdays.  Doesn't seem like that hard of a choice if you have the time and means.  I'd rather my kid play flight 8 than Rec just because of those few reasons.   At least outside of the initial starter year or two.


What happened to that squad that moved from F2 to F1?  I'd be willing to bet if they stuck in F1 again the following year, they'd see an improvement (maybe not win the league, but be more competitive than 0-11-1).  Speed of play takes some time to adjust to and the higher the flight, usually the faster the speed of play.  But in many cases, the moment a team has a losing record, players jump ship to the shiny team that was top 3 in the league-  vs sticking it out with teammates and trying to improve as a team.

The Fall season is only 10-12 games.  Teams should be looking for tournaments, spring and summer play (league or scrimmages) to get used to the next level.  I know a  lot of coaches who will only set up scrimmages against teams they are pretty sure they can beat, where they really should be either testing things against tougher teams or experimenting with tactical adjustments against equal or weaker teams.  But the moment they get scored on by a weaker team, they go into "MUST WIN NOW" mode and the team doesn't learn a new way to try and play.


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## lafalafa (Jul 21, 2021)

timbuck said:


> What happened to that squad that moved from F2 to F1?  I'd be willing to be if they stuck in F1 again the following year, they'd see an improvement (maybe not win the league, but be more competitive than 0-11-1).  Speed of play takes some time to adjust to and the higher the flight, usually the faster the speed of play.  But in many cases, the moment a team has a losing record, players jump ship to the shiny team that was top 3 in the league-  vs sticking it out with teammates and trying to improve as a team.
> 
> The Fall season is only 10-12 games.  Teams should be looking for tournaments, spring and summer play (league or scrimmages) to get used to the next level.  I know a  lot of coaches who will only set up scrimmages against teams they are pretty sure they can beat, where they really should be either testing things against tougher teams or experimenting with tactical adjustments against equal or weaker teams.  But the moment they get scored on by a weaker team, they go into "MUST WIN NOW" mode and the team doesn't learn a new way to try and play.


Flight 1 just doesn't inspire or sound like anything from a marketing standpoint

Discovery,  National,  Premier,. Blah that's instagram-able and parents don't mind paying a premium for status.

All clubs pretty much what a piece of the premium bracket pie so they put in teams ready or not.


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## Brav520 (Jul 21, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Some times coaches know.  But sometimes, their DOC place them higher because it's a bigger draw for players/parents.


I’ve been out of the club soccer scene for 20 years , so I guess I’m a little uneducated on the current scene .

So you promise F1 to players and parents , then they get demolished every game . Isn’t that going piss off parents even more?

I’m not arguing with you btw , just trying to understand . Are there really a good portion of parents out there that are ok with losing , sometimes losing badly as long as they can say their kid plays in the top division?


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## timbuck (Jul 21, 2021)

Brav520 said:


> I’ve been out of the club soccer scene for 20 years , so I guess I’m a little uneducated on the current scene .
> 
> So you promise F1 to players and parents , then they get demolished every game . Isn’t that going piss off parents even more?
> 
> I’m not arguing with you btw , just trying to understand . Are there really a good portion of parents out there that are ok with losing , sometimes losing badly as long as they can say their kid plays in the top division?


You'd be shocked.  Especially when a player is  leaving a decent/ok team in Flight 2.  First words out of their mouth "Well, they are a flight 1 team."  (Before realizing that this team has 3 players left from the prior year and is bringing in 9 players from 3 other flight 2 teams.)


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## RedCard (Jul 22, 2021)

Brav520 said:


> I’ve been out of the club soccer scene for 20 years , so I guess I’m a little uneducated on the current scene .
> 
> So you promise F1 to players and parents , then they get demolished every game . Isn’t that going piss off parents even more?
> 
> I’m not arguing with you btw , just trying to understand . Are there really a good portion of parents out there that are ok with losing , sometimes losing badly as long as they can say their kid plays in the top division?


Yes...parents do get pissed off when their kid's team lose. Saw it first hand at the Man City Cup back in May. A girls team lost their 3 games 4-0, 4-0, and 2-0. At the end of the 2nd game, one of the dads of that team just yelled out "Why the Hell are we in this tournament?? This is embarrassing!!" while storming away. 

Fun fact...That team is in the "new" 05 Discovery/NPL bracket along with both teams that beat them 4-0. Should be an interesting season...


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## Curious (Jul 23, 2021)

Does anyone know if when forming the different levels/flights if they only look at league records?  I’m asking as it seems to me a lot more older teams at tournaments have had guest player ( jerseys without numbers, tape to alter numbers or slightly different jerseys) than I’ve ever noticed before and wondered if teams might be trying to increase their raking at YSR to get the flight they want.  I realize in most cases guest players are allowed and this can be a good way for a team to tryout a new player and vice versa, but when used to simply stack a team it makes the rankings valueless.  My guess is that with the covid shakeup of teams and the number of new teams at Socal, that this fall there will be some misplaced teams, but hopefully it will get straightened out by the following season.


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## Carlsbad7 (Jul 23, 2021)

Curious said:


> Does anyone know if when forming the different levels/flights if they only look at league records?  I’m asking as it seems to me a lot more older teams at tournaments have had guest player ( jerseys without numbers, tape to alter numbers or slightly different jerseys) than I’ve ever noticed before and wondered if teams might be trying to increase their raking at YSR to get the flight they want.  I realize in most cases guest players are allowed and this can be a good way for a team to tryout a new player and vice versa, but when used to simply stack a team it makes the rankings valueless.  My guess is that with the covid shakeup of teams and the number of new teams at Socal, that this fall there will be some misplaced teams, but hopefully it will get straightened out by the following season.


Reguarding all the guesting its more likely that because of Covid this summer is the first time players have had an opportunity to check out other teams.

Also players are excited to just have fun again playing games.


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## Caltek (Jul 23, 2021)

Curious said:


> Does anyone know if when forming the different levels/flights if they only look at league records?  I’m asking as it seems to me a lot more older teams at tournaments have had guest player ( jerseys without numbers, tape to alter numbers or slightly different jerseys) than I’ve ever noticed before and wondered if teams might be trying to increase their raking at YSR to get the flight they want.  I realize in most cases guest players are allowed and this can be a good way for a team to tryout a new player and vice versa, but when used to simply stack a team it makes the rankings valueless.  My guess is that with the covid shakeup of teams and the number of new teams at Socal, that this fall there will be some misplaced teams, but hopefully it will get straightened out by the following season.


Thing is they don’t have to justify anything …the doc says I want these teams in this flight and that’s it


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## timbuck (Jul 23, 2021)

Curious said:


> Does anyone know if when forming the different levels/flights if they only look at league records?  I’m asking as it seems to me a lot more older teams at tournaments have had guest player ( jerseys without numbers, tape to alter numbers or slightly different jerseys) than I’ve ever noticed before and wondered if teams might be trying to increase their raking at YSR to get the flight they want.  I realize in most cases guest players are allowed and this can be a good way for a team to tryout a new player and vice versa, but when used to simply stack a team it makes the rankings valueless.  My guess is that with the covid shakeup of teams and the number of new teams at Socal, that this fall there will be some misplaced teams, but hopefully it will get straightened out by the following season.


I dont think this summer will be a great indicator of what 05 and older teams will ultimately look like.  Maybe as we get closer to mid-August.
A LOT of carnage among older teams.  A few teams will have big rosters (17+) and many will scrape by with 13 (or less).
It will take until next year (if we don't have any further lockdowns) to get things sorted out.

I think we will see a similar fallout across high school teams this year too.  I know quite a few kids who will seniors that have hung up their cleats.


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## mlx (Jul 27, 2021)

Caltek said:


> Thing is they don’t have to justify anything …the doc says I want these teams in this flight and that’s it


And I don't see this as something wrong...

These are not pro squads who we know will stay together. 

Maybe a team in F3 destroyed the competition but half of the team left, would the league do any good if they place this team in F2? if the DOC says it should remains in F3 it should.

The opposite case can happen, a middle of the table F2 maybe got new players and by the end, they formed a killer team that deserves to be in F1 or maybe Discovery. Do the results in the league reflect this? of course not. Their coach and their DOC know.

I know some DOCs would place some F3 teams on F1 just to keep parents happy or whatnot, but I believe that's not the norm.


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## Primetime (Jul 29, 2021)

timbuck said:


> What happened to that squad that moved from F2 to F1?  I'd be willing to bet if they stuck in F1 again the following year, they'd see an improvement (maybe not win the league, but be more competitive than 0-11-1).  Speed of play takes some time to adjust to and the higher the flight, usually the faster the speed of play.  But in many cases, the moment a team has a losing record, players jump ship to the shiny team that was top 3 in the league-  vs sticking it out with teammates and trying to improve as a team.
> 
> The Fall season is only 10-12 games.  Teams should be looking for tournaments, spring and summer play (league or scrimmages) to get used to the next level.  I know a  lot of coaches who will only set up scrimmages against teams they are pretty sure they can beat, where they really should be either testing things against tougher teams or experimenting with tactical adjustments against equal or weaker teams.  But the moment they get scored on by a weaker team, they go into "MUST WIN NOW" mode and the team doesn't learn a new way to try and play.


We’ll they’re playing Discovery now of course,  isn’t everyone, lol.   So yes they improved.  Took time but also took constantly playing teams out of our league.   I’m not the coach that schedules lower teams for any games or events, I’m the coach that schedules us to get our buts kicked and constantly pushing forward.   Which parents and players don’t always appreciate cause we don’t always get hardware.   But I’m all about can we compete at “X” Level not can we win or dominate.    When you watch a game does it look like we belong there.  The score is sometimes secondary baring it’s close of course.   I’d rather be competitive and lose at Flight 1 than win league or be undefeated at Flight 2.   When teams are older what matters most anyways is the college showcases and their not handing out trophies on Sunday at those events.  

   Back to my original point which is as a parent, coach, DOC , fan, ect  I could really care less how many levels there are as long as the games are as competitive as possible.   My kids play a lot of other sports like Cross country, volleyball among a few and I feel like there’s so many play levels in all of those as well.    I don’t feel like it makes a difference to me as a parent which they play as long as it looks like they belong there.


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## Primetime (Jul 29, 2021)

mlx said:


> And I don't see this as something wrong...
> 
> These are not pro squads who we know will stay together.
> 
> ...


Very good points.   To be honest I actually feel like I have to push my coaches to play up more than anything.    Most of my coaches are always worried about taking too many loses and having a mutiny on their hand so they’d rather stay in a comfortable flight that they know they’ll have guaranteed  success.  Just a month ago had a coach go undefeated in flight 2 and wanted to stay there again, same squad.    His reasoning was “well when we play flight 1 teams we always lose”.  He doesn’t realize that’s the process, lol.    I’d say every league season on average I have about 1 coach who wants to put his team at too high a level where they don’t belong and I have about 3-4 trying to stay at too low a level.  Everyone else is in the ball park.   That’s why I make sure I personally watch all of our teams play a lot and I check every score of every game so when these situations come up I know I can have valid input to be able to place them where they belong.   But agree that isn’t always the case at other clubs In a few of these situations.


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## Soccer (Aug 15, 2021)

Discovery NPL schedule is posted.






						Socal Soccer League | SOCAL 2021-2022 LEAGUE SCHEDULE
					






					www.socalsoccerleague.org


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## Curious (Aug 15, 2021)

Soccer said:


> Discovery NPL schedule is posted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Okay this is crazy, when I saw that original list of teams for Discovery Division I thought it must just be a list of teams that had applied for the Discovery division.  Well I was wrong and they all seam to be in the Discovery Division.  Many of those teams are very good and have a legitimate claim on playing Discovery, but for the age I looked closely at, I would say close to 25% shouldn’t be in that division.  I’m now left wondering if the league has a plan to deal with this, maybe there won’t be a Champions division this year and the lower half of the Discovery teams will be Champions next year.  I’m sure very soon I’ll be proven wrong yet again, but in the mean time it is entertaining to try to guess what the plan is.


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## Soccer (Aug 15, 2021)

Curious said:


> Okay this is crazy, when I saw that original list of teams for Discovery Division I thought it must just be a list of teams that had applied for the Discovery division.  Well I was wrong and they all seam to be in the Discovery Division.  Many of those teams are very good and have a legitimate claim on playing Discovery, but for the age I looked closely at, I would say close to 25% shouldn’t be in that division.  I’m now left wondering if the league has a plan to deal with this, maybe there won’t be a Champions division this year and the lower half of the Discovery teams will be Champions next year.  I’m sure very soon I’ll be proven wrong yet again, but in the mean time it is entertaining to try to guess what the plan is.


what is going to be difficult to explain by their coaches. Is when they are relegated as to why that is so.  SoCal Allowed everyone in who applied, due to COVID.  But next year there will only be a maximum of 15 teams in the north and 15 teams in the south. So there will be a lot of relegation.  And it does not mean if you finish in the top 15 you necessarily will be automatically in discovery next year. There may be a champions team that will take your spot.


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## lafalafa (Aug 15, 2021)

Soccer said:


> what is going to be difficult to explain by their coaches. Is when they are relegated as to why that is so.  SoCal Allowed everyone in who applied, due to COVID.  But next year there will only be a maximum of 15 teams in the north and 15 teams in the south. So there will be a lot of relegation.  And it does not mean if you finish in the top 15 you necessarily will be automatically in discovery next year. There may be a champions team that will take your spot.


Doubtful, there is always talk about bunch of relegation but in the end doesn't happen.  There are some clubs with multiples per age group in disco so maybe those or some others will realize it's too much but I won't be surprised to see 45 teams again in that division next go around.

The draw of the extra $$ fees for the league  and status for the clubs with Doc's willing to put in teams in to draw players in is something thats likely to continue.  When there is a will and $$ at stake there is a way. Have to keep up with the Joneses from those other league(s)


----------



## RedCard (Aug 15, 2021)

12 games at Silverlakes and 2 games in Oceanside for a total of approx. $164 in parking ($12 @ Silverlakes and $10 @ Oceanside). Guess I'll start saving up now...


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## lafalafa (Aug 15, 2021)

RedCard said:


> 12 games at Silverlakes and 2 games in Oceanside for a total of approx. $164 in parking ($12 @ Silverlakes and $10 @ Oceanside). Guess I'll start saving up now...


+ $4 a gallon gas x 16 players, as a team you soon realize plus the the time spent each games, things  really adds up and you want good competitive  games to make it worth the while.

Somebody from my son old team figured each longer distance away game was costing at least 1k per for the team as a whole with 16 players if you added up the gas ($20 per)  transportation costs + parking ($12-15 per)  + ref fees for each game.

The beer and wine, snacks, food at Silverlakes is not too pricey but just another spend item..

For the LA county teams that have to travel to Silverlakes and Oside weekly that's some mileage. Having no home games limits fan or some other people that might attend if it was local.


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## Keepermom2 (Aug 16, 2021)

RedCard said:


> 12 games at Silverlakes and 2 games in Oceanside for a total of approx. $164 in parking ($12 @ Silverlakes and $10 @ Oceanside). Guess I'll start saving up now...


Right?!  And all to change the name from Flight 1 to Discovery.


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## Soccer (Aug 16, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Doubtful, there is always talk about bunch of relegation but in the end doesn't happen.  There are some clubs with multiples per age group in disco so maybe those or some others will realize it's too much but I won't be surprised to see 45 teams again in that division next go around.
> 
> The draw of the extra $$ fees for the league  and status for the clubs with Doc's willing to put in teams in to draw players in is something thats likely to continue.  When there is a will and $$ at stake there is a way. Have to keep up with the Joneses from those other league(s)


1. All of the Discovery teams know they play at one venue. This isn't a surprise.
2. The league covers the referee fees.
3. Discovery is not a money making venture for the league.  This is fact. 
4. How much did teams pay for travel to tournaments during COVID? Or pay for parking during summer tournaments? Or for State Cup under Cal South?
5. Or that it saves clubs money on field rentals when most clubs have trouble getting fields to begin with.

Discovery will be 15 teams in North and 15 south.  Next year.


----------



## lafalafa (Aug 16, 2021)

Soccer said:


> 1. All of the Discovery teams know they play at one venue. This isn't a surprise.
> 2. The league covers the referee fees.
> 3. Discovery is not a money making venture for the league.  This is fact.
> 4. How much did teams pay for travel to tournaments during COVID? Or pay for parking during summer tournaments? Or for State Cup under Cal South?
> ...


I don't know if you're naive or you just don't know,  there making $$.

What's the fees to play in the disco league again? 1500?  x 45 teams =~ 70k x 12  = $840,000.  Yeah right there not making any money.

They are getting a cut on the parking venue on top of that at least at Silverlakes and other things.

The clubs are making more by charging higher fees for teams in certain leagues like this one.

And no there will be a lot more teams in each next year, down from 45 per perhaps but no way limited to 15.

Dream on if you think there clubs are saving money by traveling for every game and paying 3x normal league fees. No parents are saving any money in this arrangement, costing them more when you add up transportation expensive, parking, extra time on the road.  There club fees are not going down because they play in this league.


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## Soccer (Aug 17, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> I don't know if you're naive or you just don't know,  there making $$.
> 
> What's the fees to play in the disco league again? 1500?  x 45 teams =~ 70k x 12  = $840,000.  Yeah right there not making any money.
> 
> ...


They great thing about a soccer forum is you can hide behind a scream name.  The not so great thing is you can hide behind a screen name.

That being said I know what I speak of and I will leave it that.

Discovery is a break even venture for SoCal once you figure in cost of fields, refs, admin cost  and other misc costs.

SoCal does not make a cent off of parking off of the venues. Plus there is no discount for field rental.  The league pays Discovery fiend rental. 

As far as the club side fir parents.  Not privy.  So I do not assume I know if it costs more or less for a parent.   On the club side it has to cost less, unless they force parents to pay ref fees on top of dues as a team.

As to why I know it will drop to 15 in north and 15 in the South max next year. Is because it has to from the league side to make the model work. That’s all I will share.

You can think I am wrong or naive. But as I said anonimity on a soccer forum is what it is.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 17, 2021)

Soccer said:


> They great thing about a soccer forum is you can hide behind a scream name.  The not so great thing is you can hide behind a screen name.
> 
> That being said I know what I speak of and I will leave it that.
> 
> ...


I dont think the "league" is making additional money.  (And I dont think leagues necessarily exist to "make money".  Sure- people get paid to work for the league.  And if the league grows, they should get paid more. Or they hire more people and spread the money around. That's for another discussion).
I also don't think anyone is getting rich from youth soccer.  Sure, you've got some guys earning mid 6 figure incomes -  But they've grown their clubs to the point where they likely deserve it.  I don't have the full research on this -  But I'm pretty sure that some of the people that run silverlakes are also involved in the SoCalLeague board.  And I'm pretty sure that some clubs were granted Discovery League status due to their relationships with the SoCalLeague powers-that-be.  And the people selling canopies and other field equipment are likely connected as well.

My kid is on a team that will play in Discovery this year.  Our prices didn't go up or down because of this.  If the club saves money from Discovery, I dont think we'll see a reduction in our fees in the future.


----------



## Eagle33 (Aug 17, 2021)

Soccer said:


> They great thing about a soccer forum is you can hide behind a scream name.  The not so great thing is you can hide behind a screen name.
> 
> That being said I know what I speak of and I will leave it that.
> 
> ...


Thanks Michelle!


----------



## lafalafa (Aug 17, 2021)

Soccer said:


> They great thing about a soccer forum is you can hide behind a scream name.  The not so great thing is you can hide behind a screen name.
> 
> That being said I know what I speak of and I will leave it that.
> 
> ...


Ha ok anonymous soccer user name.  Who are you then if you're not a parent?

Been on this forum for a lot longer vs your anonymous account, why are you hiding?

You have posted things that may be your opinion but not necessarily true since you're obviously guessing, hiding, or haven't seen the the financials or the agreements.

Yes they are making money on the parking at Silverlakes for one, do you know how?    Tell us this past season who received kickbacks from the parking if you think you know?

Premium priced leagues are not brake even, if you seen the financials they tell a different story not your opinion or guessing.

There are already disco divisions with only 15 teams or 30 total this year.   Looks at the girls or some of the other age brackets.   Supply and demand driven by the clubs,. Docs.  If they want 45 teams next year there will be 45 teams.

Come clean or just concede it's your personal opinions,  everyone has one no biggie.

Youth soccer is not generally run to loose money, there are potential surpluses,  Who would cover the losses if there where any?

Those $$$ in the bank, stock market, other assets where achieved how again?  Nobody is getting rich but it's not a zero sum either even with "no-profit" status. Some clubs loose money but the league is not and neither are the the premium price leagues and I've seen the numbers to back up my personal opinions.


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## sascbreakaway83 (Aug 17, 2021)

I just noticed in the 2009 boys bracket has a team that he’s never played a game before? How does that qualify you for Discovery? Also a team that jumped from F3 to Discovery? What the….lol


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## dreamz (Aug 17, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> I don't know if you're naive or you just don't know,  there making $$.
> 
> What's the fees to play in the disco league again? 1500?  x 45 teams =~ 70k x 12  = $840,000.  Yeah right there not making any money.
> 
> ...


Discovery fee is $1000 per team.
Do the math on referee fees alone at $1.75 per minute. For a 90 minute game that's $157.50 per game which is about $78.75 each team (even though the league pays the ref fees I'm using this as an example). Each team plays 14 games so just in referee fees alone, per team, it's $1102.50. That doesn't include field rentals or setup. Based on Basic Math for Idiots 101, there is no many being made in the Discovery division by the league.


----------



## dreamz (Aug 17, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I dont think the "league" is making additional money.  (And I dont think leagues necessarily exist to "make money".  Sure- people get paid to work for the league.  And if the league grows, they should get paid more. Or they hire more people and spread the money around. That's for another discussion).
> I also don't think anyone is getting rich from youth soccer.  Sure, you've got some guys earning mid 6 figure incomes -  But they've grown their clubs to the point where they likely deserve it.  I don't have the full research on this -  But I'm pretty sure that some of the people that run silverlakes are also involved in the SoCalLeague board.  And I'm pretty sure that some clubs were granted Discovery League status due to their relationships with the SoCalLeague powers-that-be.  And the people selling canopies and other field equipment are likely connected as well.
> 
> My kid is on a team that will play in Discovery this year.  Our prices didn't go up or down because of this.  If the club saves money from Discovery, I dont think we'll see a reduction in our fees in the future.


JH from Silverlakes is not on the SoCal league board. He is a Technical Committee member with no financial influence or decision making ability at the board level. No one from Legends, or Silverlakes, is on the SoCal board which can be verified on their website. 
Coming out of COVID, and this is public knowledge too, any team that applied for Discovery is in Discovery so that the competition can play itself out on the field and not have the decision made by anyone that hasn't seen the teams play in over a year. Again, public knowledge. It didn't have anything to do with clubs granted Discovery status due to relationships with anyone. But like SOCCER said, teams in Discovery that have no business there will have a tough season and an even tougher future for being in the wrong group.
Haters are always going to hate but at least hate on the facts and not on speculation or assumptions.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 17, 2021)

dreamz said:


> Discovery fee is $1000 per team.
> Do the math on referee fees alone at $1.75 per minute. For a 90 minute game that's $157.50 per game which is about $78.75 each team (even though the league pays the ref fees I'm using this as an example). Each team plays 14 games so just in referee fees alone, per team, it's $1102.50. That doesn't include field rentals or setup. Based on Basic Math for Idiots 101, there is no many being made in the Discovery division by the league.


Basic business 101.  Elite race cars make no money but bring in buyers for the manufacturers other cars.  Loss leaders etc.  

Basic business 102.  The league doesn't have to make money.  The clubs have to make money.  The league is just an intermediary corporation that sets out a formal relationship between the clubs and combines resources for some common management tasks and expenses.  The money can all be made at the club level (where, again, it can all be paid out in wages and bonuses and show no profits).

SCDSL or whatever you call it was created to allow more control by Mega clubs and keep them expanding.  Every time a new Surf affiliate is created an angel dies.


----------



## dreamz (Aug 17, 2021)

I


lafalafa said:


> I don't know if you're naive or you just don't know,  there making $$.
> 
> What's the fees to play in the disco league again? 1500?  x 45 teams =~ 70k x 12  = $840,000.  Yeah right there not making any money.
> 
> ...


I'll use your equation to simplify it (plus your own math was even wrong. Based on your calculations, the total would be $810k, not $840 but let's clean it up and make it accurate.

$1000 (actual fee per team) x 45 teams = $45k x 12 = $540,000
45 teams x 12 divisions = 540 teams
540 teams x 14 games = 7560 games divided by two because there are 2 teams per game = 3780 games
For the sake of this discussion let's use 80-minute games because some games are 70 and some are 90-minutes so we'll use 80 as the average.
3780 games x 80 = 302,400 minutes of games
302,400 minutes of games x $1.75 per minute = $529.200 
That's JUST in referee fees.
Add in athletic trainers, field rentals and setup and it's clear this is no money making venture but it's the right thing to do for the game.
Oh - and let's not forget the FREE college showcase that the Discovery teams get to participate in. 

Now that you know the facts, based on public information and not your misinformation, please explain where all of the money comes with Discovery? 

I'll wait.


----------



## dreamz (Aug 17, 2021)

Woodwork said:


> Basic business 101.  Elite race cars make no money but bring in buyers for the manufacturers other cars.  Loss leaders etc.
> 
> Basic business 102.  The league doesn't have to make money.  The clubs have to make money.  The league is just an intermediary corporation that sets out a formal relationship between the clubs and combines resources for some common management tasks and expenses.  The money can all be made at the club level (where, again, it can all be paid out in wages and bonuses and show no profits).
> 
> SCDSL or whatever you call it was created to allow more control by Mega clubs and keep them expanding.  Every time a new Surf affiliate is created an angel dies.


Clubs and leagues are non-profits. They should all have reserves to get them through situations like COVID but none of them are for-profit.

Small, independent clubs still exist and thrive in their communities but some have decided that affiliating with another club brings them something they need. Affiliations aren't done just at the big club level, there are small clubs affiliating with other small clubs too. 

You also haven't read the mission statement of SCDSL and why it was created. "to give control to the clubs to decide what is in the best interest of their teams". CSL wouldn't allow the clubs to pull their ECNL teams out of the league. Boys DA teams were already gone. They made is easy for a new league to be created because they were so dug with forcing clubs to play teams that didn't want to play. 

It had nothing to do with mega clubs expansion. I would argue that many of the founding clubs have not grown in size and some no longer exist but like every business, survival of the fittest applies to youth soccer too. Good leadership, a business plan and some level of success is what every business needs in order to remain successful.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 17, 2021)

dreamz said:


> Clubs and leagues are non-profits. They should all have reserves to get them through situations like COVID but none of them are for-profit.
> 
> Small, independent clubs still exist and thrive in their communities but some have decided that affiliating with another club brings them something they need. Affiliations aren't done just at the big club level, there are small clubs affiliating with other small clubs too.
> 
> ...


Nothing you are saying refutes anything I said.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 17, 2021)

Wow looking at discovery for one groups there are some serious questions.  I predict some lopsided results.


----------



## Primetime (Aug 17, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> I don't know if you're naive or you just don't know,  there making $$.
> 
> What's the fees to play in the disco league again? 1500?  x 45 teams =~ 70k x 12  = $840,000.  Yeah right there not making any money.
> 
> ...


Silverlakes is making money but the league isn’t. In fact it’s costing money. All the DOCs approved the extra expenditures out of a surplus the league had from the first couple seasons. Discovery is $800 for 14 games. The Ref fees for that many games at Flight 1, 2 or 3 is about $750 alone. So add on to that the price to rent the field at Silverlakes ($125 per game x 14 games). Your looking at $1,750 for fields. So that’s clearly way more than the registration fee covers.    Again the league is eating the cost and I know this because I voted on it along with 80 other DOCs. Discovery was set up and designed to be a loss of money and a way for the league to give back. 
     But you gotta love the people who don’t know what their talking about with all their “it’s all about the money , it’s all about the money”.  Meanwhile basic math and the slightest of insights prevail.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 17, 2021)

Primetime said:


> Silverlakes is making money but the league isn’t. In fact it’s costing money. All the DOCs approved the extra expenditures out of a surplus the league had from the first couple seasons. Discovery is $800 for 14 games. The Ref fees for that many games at Flight 1, 2 or 3 is about $750 alone. So add on to that the price to rent the field at Silverlakes ($125 per game x 14 games). Your looking at $1,750 for fields. So that’s clearly way more than the registration fee covers.    Again the league is eating the cost and I know this because I voted on it along with 80 other DOCs. Discovery was set up and designed to be a loss of money and a way for the league to give back.
> But you gotta love the people who don’t know what their talking about with all their “it’s all about the money , it’s all about the money”.  Meanwhile basic math and the slightest of insights prevail.


I am also on the inside but can't reveal myself, but trust me I know an angel dies when another Surf affiliate forms.


----------



## watfly (Aug 17, 2021)

sascbreakaway83 said:


> I just noticed in the 2009 boys bracket has a team that he’s never played a game before? How does that qualify you for Discovery? Also a team that jumped from F3 to Discovery? What the….lol


I took a look at Discovery for the boys, most are 3rd and 4th tier teams.  I feel sorry for the 1st tier teams from small clubs that have to travel a distance to play a 4th tier team.  My buddy's son's team is a very competitive team from a small club that has to play the 4th team from a larger club four times during the season.  The teams are in each others backyards but have to travel to Oceanside for one team to destroy the other.

According to my buddy they were lead to believe that there would be some cross play between North and South since they would be playing at the same venues for the most part.  That would make sense, but instead they get to play the same crappy teams 3-4 times during the season.


----------



## Curious (Aug 17, 2021)

It seems that there are many knowledgeable people on this thread so I’d like to ask how the Champions division will be formed this season?  Is it the same as Discovery and any team that applied to play Champions division will, or will the teams be looked at independently and those considered the best qualified will be put in that group? Thanks


----------



## dreamz (Aug 17, 2021)

watfly said:


> I took a look at Discovery for the boys, most are 3rd and 4th tier teams.  I feel sorry for the 1st tier teams from small clubs that have to travel a distance to play a 4th tier team.  My buddy's son's team is a very competitive team from a small club that has to play the 4th team from a larger club four times during the season.  The teams are in each others backyards but have to travel to Oceanside for one team to destroy the other.
> 
> According to my buddy they were lead to believe that there would be some cross play between North and South since they would be playing at the same venues for the most part.  That would make sense, but instead they get to play the same crappy teams 3-4 times during the season.


That's what State Cup and Showcases are - cross play.


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## watfly (Aug 17, 2021)

dreamz said:


> That's what State Cup and Showcases are - cross play.


State Cup is irrelevant except at the youngest ages.  The year we played SCDSL flight 1 we had plenty of south north play and everyone had to travel to the  opposition's fields.  With central field locations cross play makes even more sense.  Seems a lot more attractive to have cross play with similar level teams than to play a team 2-3 levels below you 4 times just because they're in your geographical region which is irrelevant when you're playing in a central location. Seems like cross play would be a good option that Discovery could offer.


----------



## Soccer (Aug 17, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I don't have the full research on this -  But I'm pretty sure that some of the people that run silverlakes are also involved in the SoCalLeague board.  And I'm pretty sure that some clubs were granted Discovery League status due to their relationships with the SoCalLeague powers-that-be.  And the people selling canopies and other field equipment are likely connected as well.


Josh is on the technical committee.  He runs Silverlakes.  Does he have say in soccer programming, yes he has a vote.  Does he ideas sway the league to Silverlakes?  NO. 

The league has no special treatment at Silverlakes.  Or OSide or Del Mar.  The league rents fie


lafalafa said:


> Come clean or just concede it's your personal opinions,  everyone has one no biggie.


Don't need to that is the point of a forum.  But one thing is for sure you are not a DOC/ Board Member or work for SOCAL.

So how you think you know it all..........

Hope you have a great season.


----------



## lafalafa (Aug 17, 2021)

Primetime said:


> Silverlakes is making money but the league isn’t. In fact it’s costing money. All the DOCs approved the extra expenditures out of a surplus the league had from the first couple seasons. Discovery is $800 for 14 games. The Ref fees for that many games at Flight 1, 2 or 3 is about $750 alone. So add on to that the price to rent the field at Silverlakes ($125 per game x 14 games). Your looking at $1,750 for fields. So that’s clearly way more than the registration fee covers.    Again the league is eating the cost and I know this because I voted on it along with 80 other DOCs. Discovery was set up and designed to be a loss of money and a way for the league to give back.
> But you gotta love the people who don’t know what their talking about with all their “it’s all about the money , it’s all about the money”.  Meanwhile basic math and the slightest of insights prevail.


Interesting spin and memories you seem to have.

According to this thread discovery was created and cost $1400





__





						SCDSL adding Discovery Division
					

Interesting new development for club soccer in socal.  http://goalnation.com/improving-youth-soccer-scdsl-kicks-off-new-discovery-division/




					www.socalsoccer.com
				




you Gotha love people who try to spin things and talk out of both sides.  According to soccer.com it's break even but now you say no there losing money, which is it?

If money is really being lost how's that covered?  Side deals with the parking that reduces field costs, video hustles, showcases or just overcharging for other things?

The shell games played are amusing if not borderline shady.

Club Youth soccer demographics are still segregated for the most part and costs continue to climb. Parents are playing more to pay in this league division in the long run that's the bottom line.  Parking fees, transportation costs, time, coaches travel expenses for the high majority of teams getting no home games with fewer people coming to spectate.

Cubs may save a few dollars on registration compared to Cal South but is that passed down to parents?  What clubs pay league fees out of club dues and which ones state that's only covered by team fees?  What's included in team fees?  Are those being reduced this season or increased?

If you want to paint a realistic picture you can take selective broad strokes or you can go into the finer ones to get something that looks better.  Right now I would say you might want to do the ladder and think outside of your narrow or selective view to consider the overall picture.


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## lafalafa (Aug 17, 2021)

Soccer said:


> Josh is on the technical committee.  He runs Silverlakes.  Does he have say in soccer programming, yes he has a vote.  Does he ideas sway the league to Silverlakes?  NO.
> 
> The league has no special treatment at Silverlakes.  Or OSide or Del Mar.  The league rents fie
> 
> ...


Parent like I have stated anytime anybody has asked!

How about you again? What's your affiliation to this Division or League?

How many members of this committee have a financial stake at the venues or anything that the league spends money on or enters agreements with?

Do you think it's appropriate to excuse oneself in voting due to possible conflicts of financial interest?


----------



## RedCard (Aug 17, 2021)

watfly said:


> I took a look at Discovery for the boys, most are 3rd and 4th tier teams.  I feel sorry for the 1st tier teams from small clubs that have to travel a distance to play a 4th tier team.  My buddy's son's team is a very competitive team from a small club that has to play the 4th team from a larger club four times during the season.  The teams are in each others backyards but have to travel to Oceanside for one team to destroy the other.
> 
> According to my buddy they were lead to believe that there would be some cross play between North and South since they would be playing at the same venues for the most part.  That would make sense, but instead they get to play the same crappy teams 3-4 times during the season.


Yeah, that really sucks when you play teams that don't belong in the top bracket. I remember during the 2018season, my DD's 05 team was in the Flight 1 bracket and they were the only true "A-Team" for their club. It was a small club so we had no DA or ECNL teams, but that team was always in the top 7 of the youth soccer rankings for that year. We had 2 teams in that bracket from the same club, but that club had a DA and a DPL team, so they were actually the C and D teams. We played both teams twice and won all 4 games with the scores 8-1, 8-1, 9-0, and 8-1. All the games were over by halftime.


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## Soccer (Aug 17, 2021)

Parent like I have stated anytime anybody has asked!  - Don’t care.  

How about you again? What's your affiliation to this Division or League?  No concern of yours.  Just trying to keep things truthful.  Not Michele (Eagle 33)

How many members of this committee have a financial stake at the venues or anything that the league spends money on or enters agreements with? One.  He is a paid employee by Silverlakes.  Employee

Do you think it's appropriate to excuse oneself in voting due to possible conflicts of financial interest?  He does, when applicable.  

Dreamz posted the numbers.  Still believe SoCal is making the the big bucks over having more teams in Discovery.  

All I am saying is the number of teams in Discovery is based on the DOC’s decision to allow self bracketing due to COVID. Does it suck DOC’s took advantage, absolutely. Who wants to play a dog team that is mid flighted. The best is when a DOC puts a team in Discovery then they drop the team all together. Tells me you were trying to sell some BS that did not work. 

it will get back to 15 in North and 15 in south next year. With 15 that belong.  All I ever stated until LAFA disagreed.

I do agree, parents are the losers in all of this.  But as long as they pay the clubs will take advantage.  The league is driven by the DOC’s of the league who all get one vote.


----------



## Emma (Aug 18, 2021)

Soccer said:


> Parent like I have stated anytime anybody has asked!  - Don’t care.
> 
> How about you again? What's your affiliation to this Division or League?  No concern of yours.  Just trying to keep things truthful.  Not Michele (Eagle 33)
> 
> ...


Does it have to be 15 in the north and 15 in the south?  Shouldn't discovery be based on skills?  There are teams that should not be in it who are currently in it and most of them are from big brand name clubs trying to please their 3 and 4th teams.  If there are only 15 teams total, all games should rotate between great park, silverlakes, oceandside, and del mar.


----------



## lafalafa (Aug 18, 2021)

Soccer said:


> Parent like I have stated anytime anybody has asked!  - Don’t care.
> 
> How about you again? What's your affiliation to this Division or League?  No concern of yours.  Just trying to keep things truthful.  Not Michele (Eagle 33)
> 
> ...


Well at least you're becoming more reasonable and understanding.   But no I said there are bigger $$ in premium Leagues and I haven't seen one that's  brake even yet.   How many teams will be in the divisions next season remains to be seen.

According to you... dreamz says the clubs are the one making the $$, primetime say no it's the venue making the $$,  you say no it's not the league making anything.    Basically they all have a hand in the parents pockets and are colluding together according to dreamz.   That sounds just peachy for the people paying for all this.

What other venues where voted on besides the 2-3 ones that thousand of players must commute to now?

Was silverlakes selected partly due to contact obligations since that calls for x amount of customers, parking revenue, and field usage.  The coincidence seems obviously but you're the insider who doesn't want to reveal their conflict of interest so who knows?





						SCDSL loses Silverlakes Norco...
					

Apparently SCDSL did not get there field permits for SilverLakes Norco for the 19-20' season due to a contract expirations or other issues according to communicate sent out recently.  Lawyer are knee deep in this one so might be some resolutions but the league folks are informing clubs they will...




					www.socalsoccer.com
				




Don't you think it's kind of ironic to call this a Socal Discovery League where you can only be discovery out in Norco or down south in San Diego county.  Meanwhile thousands of players and hundreds of teams are passes by on the commute.   Centralized league  play may be good for the league, club, venues but does little to nothing to attract new players, fans, etc  while driving up costs for the paying customers.


----------



## watfly (Aug 18, 2021)

What's happening in Discovery is just illustrative of the current structural problems were having in youth soccer.  Small clubs are being left behind.  Small clubs will often have a team or two that are very competitive, but can't get comparable competition in league because the club is not strong enough overall to be a member of an acronym league.   As a result, they end up playing the big clubs 3rd and 4th teams which often are just glorified rec teams.  Things have been a scramble with the demise of the DA and the pandemic.  I'm hoping that once the dust settles there will be some consolidation of league play, but I'm concerned that the small clubs, which can have a lot to offer, will continue to be consumed by the big clubs.  Thus eliminating options for the customer and player.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 18, 2021)

watfly said:


> What's happening in Discovery is just illustrative of the current structural problems were having in youth soccer.  Small clubs are being left behind.  Small clubs will often have a team or two that are very competitive, but can't get comparable competition in league because the club is not strong enough overall to be a member of an acronym league.   As a result, they end up playing the big clubs 3rd and 4th teams which often are just glorified rec teams.  Things have been a scramble with the demise of the DA and the pandemic.  I'm hoping that once the dust settles there will be some consolidation of league play, but I'm concerned that the small clubs, which can have a lot to offer, will continue to be consumed by the big clubs.  Thus eliminating options for the customer and player.


Also seems to me that clubs with ECNL would rather dilute the ECNL and ECRL pools than play the team in an appropriate league and level.  Teams getting creamed 10-0 don't develop from it, and ECNL isn't a developmental league - its a competitive one.  Yet, these clubs implicitly but affirmatively devalue the  "developmental" league they themselves created by taking appropriate competition out of the league and improperly bracketing their C and D teams.  

Cue some DOC saying that their mission statement fixes all this.  "Trust Mega Club DOC," they say.  "Mega Club loves you."


----------



## timbuck (Aug 18, 2021)

Is Las Vegas Surf 2007 really going to come to So Cal every weekend for Discovery League games?


			http://socalsoccerleague.org/_element_display/#%2F74965%2Fteams%2F101056088%2F102617250-101746167%2FTEAM.html%3Frnd%3D1629325093473
		


Anyone know the guy/girl that sold this to them?  I've got an open spot on my sales team and I'm sure they would do really well.

Also - In the 07 age group you have 23 teams.  15 in the north division.  8 in the south division.
Looks like "south" teams play in Oceanside or Del Mar and North teams play mostly at Silverlakes.
The San Diego teams (Cardiff, Carlsbad, Encinitas, Rebels) will have nice easy drives.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 18, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Is Las Vegas Surf 2007 really going to come to So Cal every weekend for Discovery League games?
> 
> 
> http://socalsoccerleague.org/_element_display/#%2F74965%2Fteams%2F101056088%2F102617250-101746167%2FTEAM.html%3Frnd%3D1629325093473
> ...


Only one name listed for the 5 teams.  Looks like he took some of the Players SC teams.  I hear that NV competition is not that great but I could argue it was fine from where those teams sat, especially when you take into account all the LV tourneys/showcases.  Thought I know one of those teams is appropriate for Discovery at least.


----------



## Venantsyo (Aug 18, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Is Las Vegas Surf 2007 really going to come to So Cal every weekend for Discovery League games?
> 
> 
> http://socalsoccerleague.org/_element_display/#%2F74965%2Fteams%2F101056088%2F102617250-101746167%2FTEAM.html%3Frnd%3D1629325093473
> ...


LV Surf is in G2009 Discovery as well.


----------



## Primetime (Aug 18, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Well at least you're becoming more reasonable and understanding.   But no I said there are bigger $$ in premium Leagues and I haven't seen one that's  brake even yet.   How many teams will be in the divisions next season remains to be seen.
> 
> According to you... dreamz says the clubs are the one making the $$, primetime say no it's the venue making the $$,  you say no it's not the league making anything.    Basically they all have a hand in the parents pockets and are colluding together according to dreamz.   That sounds just peachy for the people paying for all this.
> 
> ...


One of The Ideas behind Discovery was to have all the top teams at one location and create a showcase type of event/atmosphere making it easier for college coaches ect.   So not too many places that can accommodate that.


----------



## Primetime (Aug 18, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Interesting spin and memories you seem to have.
> 
> According to this thread discovery was created and cost $1400
> 
> ...


Discovery used to be $1,000 now it’s was lowered to $800.   Regular league fees also have gone down the past two years.  People may have been referencing a $1500 cost but that includes the $700 state cup fee.    The loss in funds that Discovery  cost is covered by the other league fees.  You know all that giant fortune everyone claims is being pocketed.   The reason both fees have gone down is the league isn’t designed to run a profit so after analyzing cost they decided to lower fees.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Aug 18, 2021)

Primetime said:


> One of The Ideas behind Discovery was to have all the top teams at one location and create a showcase type of event/atmosphere making it easier for college coaches ect.   So not too many places that can accommodate that.


Discovery is a good idea for older age groups.  I don’t understand why they have it for 7th graders.  
ECNL should be a league on their own. ECRL and flight 1 discovery should be combined as a discovery starting in 8th grade/9th grade.  
I don’t understand people complaining about parking fees $20 or less.   These are the same people that spend $100 a week in Starbucks and don’t think it’s expensive.


----------



## watfly (Aug 19, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Discovery is a good idea for older age groups.  I don’t understand why they have it for 7th graders.
> ECNL should be a league on their own. ECRL and flight 1 discovery should be combined as a discovery starting in 8th grade/9th grade.
> I don’t understand people complaining about parking fees $20 or less.   These are the same people that spend $100 a week in Starbucks and don’t think it’s expensive.


Those that complain about club, league and parking fees don't have a kid in competitive dance.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 19, 2021)

watfly said:


> Those that complain about club, league and parking fees don't have a kid in competitive dance.







You mean like this?  Doesn't look too expensive.  Aside from the pleather parachute pants


----------



## Primetime (Aug 19, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Discovery is a good idea for older age groups.  I don’t understand why they have it for 7th graders.
> ECNL should be a league on their own. ECRL and flight 1 discovery should be combined as a discovery starting in 8th grade/9th grade.
> I don’t understand people complaining about parking fees $20 or less.   These are the same people that spend $100 a week in Starbucks and don’t think it’s expensive.


Can’t argue much with that.   Totally true about the Starbucks thing, lol.    I used to think soccer was expensive till my daughter started playing club volleyball, FLM.   To start with Every club charges for tryouts (imagine how that would fly on here )  then your looking at an average of about $5,000+ for the year, not including uniforms or travel of course.   And forget about $12 parking,  your talking about $15-$20 at every single venue, not just the 2-3 we have in soccer.  Then there’s an entry fee of anywhere from $7-$15 again at Every venue.   So a family of 5 is in the hole $65 just to get in the door with watch one kid play.   Then of course add on your there all day and no outside food allowed so your stuck eating the expensive food there and the way VB tournaments work you don’t have time to leave and eat.  So ya I don’t have too many complaints about the cost of soccer in comparison.


----------



## Chelsea dad g09 (Aug 19, 2021)

watfly said:


> Those that complain about club, league and parking fees don't have a kid in competitive dance.


My wife danced for 20 years, I can honestly say I was happy when my daughter hated it after her first and only competition.


----------



## watfly (Aug 19, 2021)

timbuck said:


> You mean like this?  Doesn't look too expensive.  Aside from the pleather parachute pants


Those outfits are pre-rhinestone.  Come talk to me when they've been rhinestoned.

I may actually get a raise when my child goes to college, even out of state. (of course, a 529 doesn't cover competitive dance)



Chelsea dad g09 said:


> My wife danced for 20 years, I can honestly say I was happy when my daughter hated it after her first and only competition.


You dodged a bullet financially.  I can't really complain because my daughter loves it and although there aren't any material dance scholarships for college, if the dance team is under the athletic department she will get most of the perks and swag that Div 1 college athletes get.


----------



## lafalafa (Aug 19, 2021)

Primetime said:


> One of The Ideas behind Discovery was to have all the top teams at one location and create a showcase type of event/atmosphere making it easier for college coaches ect.   So not too many places that can accommodate that.


Another myth and/or marketing gimmick.  Top teams in disco and college coaches going out of there way to attend league games to places like Norco during their busy play season.     

The state cup gimmick is another funny one, let's have a league cup charge $700 and call that a state cup. 

Club sports are a bubble, very few people where I'm from are going to drive 100+  miles to Norco RT or Oside, spend 5-6 hours, pay for gas, parking, etc for a single game and repeat that 14x.   

The only players being discovered are the ones already in club soccer, the rest can't afford the folly of a the discovery League two counties past where they reside. 

At least the league fee was reduced but if that includes a mandatory +700 for league cup not so much. Overcharging the rest of the league divisions to subsidized Discovery may not be too cool for those people if they knew.

Switching to usclub is a good move although all the other us leagues had more localized play, home games, and ways to enter the regionals and earn or compete for the playoffs already.


----------



## MacDre (Aug 19, 2021)

watfly said:


> Those outfits are pre-rhinestone.  Come talk to me when they've been rhinestoned.
> 
> I may actually get a raise when my child goes to college, even out of state. (of course, a 529 doesn't cover competitive dance)
> 
> ...


You got it.  Soccer dads are weak.  Those dudes no absolutely nothing about being the only dad filling in during a hair, makeup, or fitting session either.


----------



## Chelsea dad g09 (Aug 19, 2021)

watfly said:


> Those outfits are pre-rhinestone.  Come talk to me when they've been rhinestoned.
> 
> I may actually get a raise when my child goes to college, even out of state. (of course, a 529 doesn't cover competitive dance)
> 
> ...


That I did. How do you deal with the insane amount of glitter? I feel like I'm still finding that stuff everywhere and it's been six years!


----------



## crush (Aug 19, 2021)

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> My wife danced for 20 years, I can honestly say I was happy when my daughter hated it after her first and only competition.


My dd did the dancing bear and was 100% a no after her one and only dance off.


----------



## MacDre (Aug 19, 2021)

crush said:


> My dd did the dancing bear and was 100% a no after her one and only dance off.


Funny thing is that soccer team tactics are super easy for my kid because she’s been on a dance team since she was 5.  Transference, I guess.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 19, 2021)

Serious question for parents -  Was anyone asking for something like Discovery league?  What was wrong with 1/2 home and 1/2 away games?  What was wrong with flight 1,2,3?  Are we putting out solutions for problems that don't really exist?  Is this supposed to be a way for players that don't play for an ECNL club to get exposure?  If that is the case- Why do ECNL clubs get to enter their 3rd/4th tier teams in this league?


----------



## crush (Aug 19, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Funny thing is that soccer team tactics are super easy for my kid because she’s been on a dance team since she was 5.  Transference, I guess.


My wife and I loved watching her dance and she look so cute.  However, she did not like it at all.  It was the moms that got to her Dre.


----------



## watfly (Aug 19, 2021)

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> That I did. How do you deal with the insane amount of glitter? I feel like I'm still finding that stuff everywhere and it's been six years!


Not a ton a glitter at my daughter's studio, more about the rhinestone's and those are like having quarter's laying around...they get picked up quickly.



MacDre said:


> You got it.  Soccer dads are weak.  Those dudes no absolutely nothing about being the only dad filling in during a hair, makeup, or fitting session either.


Major respect for you MacDre.   Our family is divide an conquer.  My wife does dance with my daughter and I do soccer with my son.  Regardless, there is no way my wife and daughter would allow me to get anywhere near my daughter's hair and makeup.  My only responsibility is getting her Dance Duffel (aka garment rack in bag) down from the attic before competitions.


----------



## tabletop (Aug 19, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Another myth and/or marketing gimmick.  Top teams in disco and college coaches going out of there way to attend league games to places like Norco during their busy play season.
> 
> The state cup gimmick is another funny one, let's have a league cup charge $700 and call that a state cup.


Spot on.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Aug 19, 2021)

tabletop said:


> Spot on.


does that even happen with ECNL games?  I was told by a former ECNL coach that it was rare to see college scouts at regular league games.


----------



## Emma (Aug 19, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Serious question for parents -  Was anyone asking for something like Discovery league?  What was wrong with 1/2 home and 1/2 away games?  What was wrong with flight 1,2,3?  Are we putting out solutions for problems that don't really exist?  Is this supposed to be a way for players that don't play for an ECNL club to get exposure?  If that is the case- Why do ECNL clubs get to enter their 3rd/4th tier teams in this league?


Discovery was intended for small clubs that aren't able to get into MLS NEXT or ECNL to have a top league for college scouting.  Like all  intended good things, the big clubs come in with their 3rd and 4th teams to ruin it for the small clubs. Then they are forcing it on younger groups like 6/7/8th graders now too because Big Clubs want to sell it to the parents of the 3rd teams that they have been developing their flight 3 teams and they are no longer JUST flight 1/2/3.  2008 and 2009s playing Discovery is not worth the drive.  Discovery should not allow teams in unless they are playing successfully in flight 1 summer tournaments.  Hopefully, all this talk of consolidating down to good teams only for next season will happen for the small clubs.  If not, the jump back to CSL and other leagues will happen.   Centralization was intended to allow college scouts to come and see these smaller clubs with great teams.  They also need to rotate locations in order to make the drive easier for teams and local college scouts.  

As for state cup, it's not a requirement.  The additional $700 for state cup is not a requirement. Teams can choose to join state cup or not.


----------



## SoccerSanDiego (Aug 19, 2021)

Emma said:


> Discovery was intended for small clubs that aren't able to get into MLS NEXT or ECNL to have a top league for college scouting.  Like all  intended good things, the big clubs come in with their 3rd and 4th teams to ruin it for the small clubs. Then they are forcing it on younger groups like 6/7/8th graders now too because Big Clubs want to sell it to the parents of the 3rd teams that they have been developing their flight 3 teams and they are no longer JUST flight 1/2/3.  2008 and 2009s playing Discovery is not worth the drive.  Discovery should not allow teams in unless they are playing successfully in flight 1 summer tournaments.  Hopefully, all this talk of consolidating down to good teams only for next season will happen for the small clubs.  If not, the jump back to CSL and other leagues will happen.   Centralization was intended to allow college scouts to come and see these smaller clubs with great teams.  They also need to rotate locations in order to make the drive easier for teams and local college scouts.
> 
> As for state cup, it's not a requirement.  The additional $700 for state cup is not a requirement. Teams can choose to join state cup or not.


This is 100% true.  There are 3rd teams in discovery that don't even belong in Flight 1.   The big clubs don't really develop players, they recruit them...more parents need to understand that and stop chasing a dream with the 3rd and 4th teams...its a mirage.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 19, 2021)

Emma said:


> Discovery was intended for small clubs that aren't able to get into MLS NEXT or ECNL to have a top league for college scouting.  Like all  intended good things, the big clubs come in with their 3rd and 4th teams to ruin it for the small clubs. Then they are forcing it on younger groups like 6/7/8th graders now too because Big Clubs want to sell it to the parents of the 3rd teams that they have been developing their flight 3 teams and they are no longer JUST flight 1/2/3.  2008 and 2009s playing Discovery is not worth the drive.  Discovery should not allow teams in unless they are playing successfully in flight 1 summer tournaments.  Hopefully, all this talk of consolidating down to good teams only for next season will happen for the small clubs.  If not, the jump back to CSL and other leagues will happen.   Centralization was intended to allow college scouts to come and see these smaller clubs with great teams.  They also need to rotate locations in order to make the drive easier for teams and local college scouts.
> 
> As for state cup, it's not a requirement.  The additional $700 for state cup is not a requirement. Teams can choose to join state cup or not.


One of the requirements to apply for Discovery *SHOULD BE* (Edited from my original post) is that your team applies to play in the top flight of any tournaments they enter.  You don't necessarily need to win or even do all that well.  But if your team is going to sandbag in the 2nd (or lower) tier of a tournament-  your team shouldn't be applying for the top division in this league.


----------



## Emma (Aug 19, 2021)

timbuck said:


> One of the requirements to apply for Discovery is that your team applies to play in the top flight of any tournaments they enter.  You don't necessarily need to win or even do all that well.  But if your team is going to sandbag in the 2nd (or lower) tier of a tournament-  your team shouldn't be applying for the top division in this league.


It appears the league is not enforcing such rule regarding top flight. 
Where should the teams sandbagging 2nd tiers be playing? (a real question, not mocking)


----------



## crush (Aug 19, 2021)

watfly said:


> Not a ton a glitter at my daughter's studio, more about the rhinestone's and those are like having quarter's laying around...they get picked up quickly.
> 
> 
> Major respect for you MacDre.   Our family is divide an conquer.  My wife does dance with my daughter and I do soccer with my son.  Regardless, there is no way my wife and daughter would allow me to get anywhere near my daughter's hair and makeup.  My only responsibility is getting her Dance Duffel (aka garment rack in bag) down from the attic before competitions.


The good life you got bro.  My son hated the coaches that yelled and was turned off at early age from soccer and baseball.  HS football he loved and was first team all league.


----------



## SoccerSanDiego (Aug 19, 2021)

timbuck said:


> One of the requirements to apply for Discovery is that your team applies to play in the top flight of any tournaments they enter.  You don't necessarily need to win or even do all that well.  But if your team is going to sandbag in the 2nd (or lower) tier of a tournament-  your team shouldn't be applying for the top division in this league.


This absolutely isn't happening...


----------



## timbuck (Aug 19, 2021)

SoccerSanDiego said:


> This absolutely isn't happening...


Meant to say that "one of the requirements SHOULD be...."


----------



## SoccerSanDiego (Aug 19, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Meant to say that "one of the requirements SHOULD be...."


What's the point in applying for Discovery and then playing in the lowest flight of a tournament?  I'll tell you, it’s ALL marketing..the big club gets to say:  "look at all the tournaments we win and we play at the highest league level too".  Many parents aren't educated in the marketing games that are played...its a very confusing process with no guidance...


----------



## socalkdg (Aug 19, 2021)

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> That I did. How do you deal with the insane amount of glitter? I feel like I'm still finding that stuff everywhere and it's been six years!


I blinged dresses for my older daughter for 6 years and coached AYSO for the younger one for 2.    Oldest is done with dance but still finding ways to spend my money, while I just film for the younger one now that she has keeper coaches and head coaches.


----------



## pokergod (Aug 19, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Is Las Vegas Surf 2007 really going to come to So Cal every weekend for Discovery League games?
> 
> 
> http://socalsoccerleague.org/_element_display/#%2F74965%2Fteams%2F101056088%2F102617250-101746167%2FTEAM.html%3Frnd%3D1629325093473
> ...


Sells itself.  Fly or drive every weekend to play beach flight ii teams.


----------



## crush (Aug 19, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Is Las Vegas Surf 2007 really going to come to So Cal every weekend for Discovery League games?
> 
> 
> http://socalsoccerleague.org/_element_display/#%2F74965%2Fteams%2F101056088%2F102617250-101746167%2FTEAM.html%3Frnd%3D1629325093473
> ...


Brah, no offer to Crush for sales team opportunity?  I'm so desperate I'll look at any sales gig.  I want to stay in California so let me know if you have spot for me.  Thanks man


----------



## Larzby (Aug 19, 2021)

Anyone have thoughts on DPL for 09's?  Along the lines of the discussion above, I noticed at least DPL has 1/2 home games, and most of the teams seem pretty strong from what little info I can find on some of the teams.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Aug 26, 2021)

The new Socal League already exceed my expectation.  When you go to their website, there is actually a chat function with real people answering live.  I had a question about the number of games in the fall league for the youngers, and a nice lady named Haley promptly answered all of my questions in real time.

It was definitely a pleasant surprise.


----------



## Soccermaverick (Aug 26, 2021)

Norco..every weekend … oh my god… why!!!  Thank god we don’t have to do that


----------



## lafalafa (Aug 26, 2021)

Soccermaverick said:


> Norco..every weekend … oh my god… why!!!  Thank god we don’t have to do that


Well at least "riverside" county doesn't yet have 48hr COVID-19 testing requirements for youth sports...  soccer players.



Messi>CR7 said:


> The new Socal League already exceed my expectation.  When you go to their website, there is actually a chat function with real people answering live.  I had a question about the number of games in the fall league for the youngers, and a nice lady named Haley promptly answered all of my questions in real time.
> 
> It was definitely a pleasant surprise.


Spoke regular English?  If so that's impressive.


----------



## notintheface (Aug 30, 2021)

Vegas teams traveling in a non-ECNL league has to be one of the biggest swindles of the year.


----------



## Speed (Sep 1, 2021)

I don't understand the leagues and where the teams are........if not playing discovery where are they playing? I know all on this board are saying that all teams are in discovery but I am not seeing it.


----------



## SoccerSanDiego (Sep 1, 2021)

Speed said:


> I don't understand the leagues and where the teams are........if not playing discovery where are they playing? I know all on this board are saying that all teams are in discovery but I am not seeing it.


There are 3 flights...discovery is a subsection of Flight 1


----------



## Speed (Sep 1, 2021)

SoccerSanDiego said:


> There are 3 flights...discovery is a subsection of Flight 1


where can you see the teams? When i look at socal all I see is the discovery teams


----------



## SoccerSanDiego (Sep 1, 2021)

Speed said:


> where can you see the teams? When i look at socal all I see is the discovery teams


Click on "Club Directory", that displays all clubs, then select your club, then select the team on the club specific page.  

Only discovery schedules are available which is why you only see them on the page you are on.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Sep 1, 2021)

SoccerSanDiego said:


> Click on "Club Directory", that displays all clubs, then select your club, then select the team on the club specific page.
> 
> Only discovery schedules are available which is why you only see them on the page you are on.


Schedule is expected to come out on Sep 4.


----------



## lafalafa (Sep 12, 2021)

So how was the first weekend of competition?  

Players excited to have a fall season with a regular set of consecutive weekend game?


----------



## Venantsyo (Sep 12, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> So how was the first weekend of competition?


Brutally hot.  Fields however were in perfect shape.


----------



## RedCard (Sep 12, 2021)

Venantsyo said:


> Brutally hot.  Fields however were in perfect shape.


True Dat....
Lucky, we had the 4pm game. Got there at 3pm and it was 99 degrees out but it cool down a little for the game and had a little breeze. Fields were in good shape. We were in the back on the grass fields. Just sucks sitting on the eastside of the field while the sun was setting in the west. The girls were happy to be back in league play. Started off on the right foot with a 6-0 win.


----------



## timbuck (Sep 13, 2021)

The drive to Oceanside and Del Mar every weekend is going to suck!!  
Took 1.5 hours to get to SoCal Sports complex (from South OC) for a Saturday afternoon game.  Then about 45 minutes to get home.
I hate spending more time in the car than the length of the actual game.

Fields were good. Competition was good. Referees were solid.  But I might trade one of these for being able to play at a local middle school for half of our games.


----------



## dreamz (Sep 13, 2021)

timbuck said:


> The drive to Oceanside and Del Mar every weekend is going to suck!!
> Took 1.5 hours to get to SoCal Sports complex (from South OC) for a Saturday afternoon game.  Then about 45 minutes to get home.
> I hate spending more time in the car than the length of the actual game.
> 
> Fields were good. Competition was good. Referees were solid.  But I might trade one of these for being able to play at a local middle school for half of our games.


The drive anywhere in southern california on the weekend sucks. Try getting to Santa Monica or LA for a game. Even if you live in LA it takes over an hour. There is no place easy to get to in southern california on the weekends.


----------



## lafalafa (Sep 13, 2021)

timbuck said:


> The drive to Oceanside and Del Mar every weekend is going to suck!!
> Took 1.5 hours to get to SoCal Sports complex (from South OC) for a Saturday afternoon game.  Then about 45 minutes to get home.
> I hate spending more time in the car than the length of the actual game.
> 
> Fields were good. Competition was good. Referees were solid.  But I might trade one of these for being able to play at a local middle school for half of our games.


Well at least you didn't play in the 100 degree heat of Norco.

Time spent: 1.5 drive out + 1.5 game time + 45 warm up + 45 return drive is almost 5 hours just for a single game not to mention the transportation and parking expensives.

Do that 14x times x 16-18 players and it gets expensive and it's cheaper overall to play @  home.

We have really good fields @ 5 high schools + 3 college fields plus dignity sports parks and others like the Toyota fields all within a 15-20 min drive or bike from our place.  Driving out 100 miles from LA County to any of those complexes and it would suck if the games where not great and the competition really worth it.


----------



## SoccerSanDiego (Sep 13, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Well at least you didn't play in the 100 degree heat of Norco.
> 
> Time spent: 1.5 drive out + 1.5 game time + 45 warm up + 45 return drive is almost 5 hours just for a single game not to mention the transportation and parking expensives.
> 
> ...


And then for competition after our 1.5 hour drive we get 3 boys SD Surf teams (07, 08, 09) that lost by a combined 24-0... Surf is just a ponzi marketing scheme designed to get the paying recruits..these teams have no right to play at this level.


----------



## timbuck (Sep 13, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Well at least you didn't play in the 100 degree heat of Norco.
> 
> Time spent: 1.5 drive out + 1.5 game time + 45 warm up + 45 return drive is almost 5 hours just for a single game not to mention the transportation and parking expensives.
> 
> ...


You are really hosed if you have multiple kids playing on the same day.  And if they are both in "Discovery" but one has their games in Norco and the other in Oceanside every week.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 13, 2021)

timbuck said:


> You are really hosed if you have multiple kids playing on the same day.  And if they are both in "Discovery" but one has their games in Norco and the other in Oceanside every week.


As you get older you realize how dumb it is to spend 4 hours on traffic for some youth sport game on a weekend.    I could have played a great round of good in that time.    These parents that don’t have their kids in sports are smarter than we think.


----------



## watfly (Sep 13, 2021)

SoccerSanDiego said:


> And then for competition after our 1.5 hour drive we get 3 boys SD Surf teams (07, 08, 09) that lost by a combined 24-0... Surf is just a ponzi marketing scheme designed to get the paying recruits..these teams have no right to play at this level.


Discovery is a joke on the boys side.  Most games this weekend were blowouts.  Only one game at 08 had less than a 3 goal differential including a 9-0 .  My buddy's kid plays in that league and they're livid about the lack of decent teams.


----------



## timbuck (Sep 13, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> As you get older you realize how dumb it is to spend 4 hours on traffic for some youth sport game on a weekend.    I could have played a great round of good in that time.    These parents that don’t have their kids in sports are smarter than we think.


If my college team was in town playing USC/UCLA, it's not likely I'd drive 2 hours to go watch them play 1 time per year.
But I do it every weekend for a kid to play who will probably be done playing by the time she's 17.


----------



## Dargle (Sep 13, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> As you get older you realize how dumb it is to spend 4 hours on traffic for some youth sport game on a weekend.    I could have played a great round of good in that time.    These parents that don’t have their kids in sports are smarter than we think.


Or, looked at differently, as you get older you realize how dumb it was to spend 4 hours playing golf when you could have spent that time with your kids while they were still young (even if much of it was driving them to and from soccer games).  Before you know it, they've grown up and left the house and you have as much time as you want for golf or whatever else you like to do on your own.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 13, 2021)

Dargle said:


> Or, looked at differently, as you get older you realize how dumb it was to spend 4 hours playing golf when you could have spent that time with your kids while they were still young (even if much of it was driving them to and from soccer games).  Before you know it, they've grown up and left the house and you have as much time as you want for golf or whatever else you like to do on your own.


Or how dumb it is to drive 4 hours in the car splitting up the family to take kids to different games.  My boys are done playing and they told me that they hated the long drives.   My little girl still has ways to go but i will not miss it when she quits.  This youth soccer obsession is just insane.  Playing soccer at 100 degree weather stuck in traffic for 2 hours.  
Only in this country do we all chase the youth alphabet soccer.   The rest of the world is simple, you are either elite and will commit to play at the top level.   Everyone else is fine playing local sports.


----------



## timbuck (Sep 13, 2021)

In the 05 discovery group- there are 2 teams from the same club.  They were scheduled to play each other in Oceanside on Sunday.  I don't see a score posted yet.
I really hope these teams are playing today or tomorrow at practice instead of driving 90 minutes to play the team they likely share a field with 2 or 3 times per week.


----------



## lafalafa (Sep 13, 2021)

timbuck said:


> If my college team was in town playing USC/UCLA, it's not likely I'd drive 2 hours to go watch them play 1 time per year.
> But I do it every weekend for a kid to play who will probably be done playing by the time she's 17.


Thing is hardly anybody fan wise beside a hardcore ish parent wants or will drive 2hrs to see a single youth sports game.  Grandmother is not sitting outside in 100 degree weather 2 hours away.

College games at least when local you can have a nice size crowd, friends and fellow students cheering so some sort of culture or fun atmosphere that is often lacking # some random out of County game at a remote complex.

Teaching players to drive by 16 worked for us, personally after watching 1k+ games between the 3 of them  I happy watching video highlights of regular league games.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 13, 2021)

timbuck said:


> In the 05 discovery group- there are 2 teams from the same club.  They were scheduled to play each other in Oceanside on Sunday.  I don't see a score posted yet.
> I really hope these teams are playing today or tomorrow at practice instead of driving 90 minutes to play the team they likely share a field with 2 or 3 times per week.


Why do you guys do it that way?

Up by us, the home team supplies the field.  Might be full of gophers, but it's usually pretty close for at least one team.


----------



## timbuck (Sep 13, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Why do you guys do it that way?
> 
> Up by us, the home team supplies the field.  Might be full of gophers, but it's usually pretty close for at least one team.


It's the "Discovery League"
I "discovered" that driving in traffic on weekends makes me angry.
I "discovered" that a lot of teams think they are better than they are and opted into this league.
The league "discovered" that they can make money by convincing parents that this new league will get them college exposure.  I can guarantee that unless a college coach lives within 4 miles of silverlakes, oceanside or del mar-   aint no coaching making that journey.


----------



## lafalafa (Sep 13, 2021)

Dargle said:


> Or, looked at differently, as you get older you realize how dumb it was to spend 4 hours playing golf when you could have spent that time with your kids while they were still young (even if much of it was driving them to and from soccer games).  Before you know it, they've grown up and left the house and you have as much time as you want for golf or whatever else you like to do on your own.


Quality time playing golf or tennis with ours is something they still both enjoy. 

When younger they tended to enjoy the longer rides and talks more.   Older not so much, more into their music, phones, socal apps, mates, etc.

Over the weekend son came by the house and wanted to play some tennis and I was like let's go to the courts.  Went down flames in 3,  too fast & strong for the old guy but was fun to be humbled.


----------



## Speed (Sep 13, 2021)

watfly said:


> Discovery is a joke on the boys side.  Most games this weekend were blowouts.  Only one game at 08 had less than a 3 goal differential including a 9-0 .  My buddy's kid plays in that league and they're livid about the lack of decent teams.


in the 05 we had a great game that went 3-2


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## Speed (Sep 13, 2021)

SoccerSanDiego said:


> And then for competition after our 1.5 hour drive we get 3 boys SD Surf teams (07, 08, 09) that lost by a combined 24-0... Surf is just a ponzi marketing scheme designed to get the paying recruits..these teams have no right to play at this level.


uh ya I looked quite a few of imbalanced games


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## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 13, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Quality time playing golf or tennis with ours is something they still both enjoy.
> 
> When younger they tended to enjoy the longer rides and talks more.   Older not so much, more into their music, phones, socal apps, mates, etc.
> 
> Over the weekend son came by the house and wanted to play some tennis and I was like let's go to the courts.  Went down flames in 3,  too fast & strong for the old guy but was fun to be humbled.


100%.  Boys quit sports by junior year. They got into playing guitars and playing golf with the old man.    They are in college now and they come home to play guitar and sing rock n roll songs. I am just watching them jam and drinking a beer.    They bring up old youth sports stories.  Their overall assessment on youth sports: coaches yell too much, parents are idiots when their kids don’t play well, and all of their friends playing soccer  got minimal to no scholarships.  They are loving college life and I have a new perspective on youth sports.


----------



## Curious (Sep 14, 2021)

I just saw that in the 03/04B Discovery there was a 10-0 game Xolos vs Albion SD.  That game couldn’t have been beneficial let alone enjoyable for anyone.  I would be livid if I had a player in such a lopsided division.


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## SoccerSanDiego (Sep 14, 2021)

Curious said:


> I just saw that in the 03/04B Discovery there was a 10-0 game Xolos vs Albion SD.  That game couldn’t have been beneficial let alone enjoyable for anyone.  I would be livid if I had a player in such a lopsided division.


Perhaps you missed my above post where sd surf lost 3 games by a 24-0 margin...they pull this bs all the time for marketing...play down in tournaments and up in leagues..guess they aren't alone.   There should be a rule that if you lose by more than 7 goals, you dont get to play in that league again for 2 years


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## Venantsyo (Sep 14, 2021)

I saw some 6-0, 7-0, 8-2 in ECNL as well and I only quickly checked a couple age groups on the girls side. Considering for some of those games travel by flight was probably needed, I don’t know what’s more ridiculous..


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## RedCard (Sep 14, 2021)

Curious said:


> I just saw that in the 03/04B Discovery there was a 10-0 game Xolos vs Albion SD.  That game couldn’t have been beneficial let alone enjoyable for anyone.  I would be livid if I had a player in such a lopsided division.


Well, there are 46 total teams in the Boys 03/04 Discovery bracket which is wayyyyyyyy to many teams in my opinion. With that many teams, there are going to be a few teams that really don't belong in the Discovery bracket.


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## Larzby (Sep 14, 2021)

I've never seen a league yet that doesn't have at least a few blowouts each weekend.  But maybe I've not been around as long as you all. Is that something that actually exists?  A youth soccer league where most every game is competitive?  Even in AYSO where there is an actual rule that requires balanced teams - it NEVER happens


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## Woodwork (Sep 15, 2021)

Larzby said:


> I've never seen a league yet that doesn't have at least a few blowouts each weekend.  But maybe I've not been around as long as you all. Is that something that actually exists?  A youth soccer league where most every game is competitive?  Even in AYSO where there is an actual rule that requires balanced teams - it NEVER happens


Had a season last year at the top level of CSL where there was one blowout in the first weekend but that team quickly corrected.  The rest of the season there was never more than a 2 goal differential for any team.   Very impressive.  Teams often figure out how to step it up if the results matter.

This season may be different because it appears CSL was more accommodating to some teams due to the fear of losing out to SCDSL.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 16, 2021)

For someone to say that blowout means a team don't belong in this or that league is an idiotic statement from someone who never played sport.
Blowouts happen all the time in lowest and highest leagues in the world in ALL sports. Sometimes, because one team is having a great day and the other team don't, or a team have their star players injured, or it could be a bad call that changes the game. There are a lot of reasons that this can happen. Arsenal lost 0:5, so does this mean they don't belong in Premier league? Some may say it's a true statement though


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## dad4 (Sep 16, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> For someone to say that blowout means a team don't belong in this or that league is an idiotic statement from someone who never played sport.
> Blowouts happen all the time in lowest and highest leagues in the world in ALL sports. Sometimes, because one team is having a great day and the other team don't, or a team have their star players injured, or it could be a bad call that changes the game. There are a lot of reasons that this can happen. Arsenal lost 0:5, so does this mean they don't belong in Premier league? Some may say it's a true statement though


If Arsenal loses _*all*_ their games 0:5, they won’t be in the Premier League.

Perhaps we should be talking about Norwich, so it would be more realistic.


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## watfly (Sep 16, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> For someone to say that blowout means a team don't belong in this or that league is an idiotic statement from someone who never played sport.
> Blowouts happen all the time in lowest and highest leagues in the world in ALL sports. Sometimes, because one team is having a great day and the other team don't, or a team have their star players injured, or it could be a bad call that changes the game. There are a lot of reasons that this can happen. Arsenal lost 0:5, so does this mean they don't belong in Premier league? Some may say it's a true statement though


Its not the blowouts don't happen, it's the number of blowouts.  Some Discovery age groups had a significant number of blowouts which were entirely predictable before the season began.  To your point, yes the wheels can fall off of any good team, that's the exception rather than the rule.  Hopefully, the teams that were blown out the 1st week can improve and make the leagues more competitive.


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## Emma (Sep 16, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> For someone to say that blowout means a team don't belong in this or that league is an idiotic statement from someone who never played sport.
> Blowouts happen all the time in lowest and highest leagues in the world in ALL sports. Sometimes, because one team is having a great day and the other team don't, or a team have their star players injured, or it could be a bad call that changes the game. There are a lot of reasons that this can happen. Arsenal lost 0:5, so does this mean they don't belong in Premier league? Some may say it's a true statement though


One blowout doesn't mean much but 3 blowouts at 3 different age groups?  It's an indication Surf's coach and club is (1) unrealistic about their team's ability or (2) sold a level of play to keep players paying.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 16, 2021)

dad4 said:


> If Arsenal loses _*all*_ their games 0:5, they won’t be in the Premier League.
> 
> Perhaps we should be talking about Norwich, so it would be more realistic.


lol 

It is week two of the various league seasons.....it will suck if families are driving all the way to oceanside or Silverlakes and paying for parking to win (or lose) by 6 or 7 goals......but as @watfly said give the kids a few more weeks to see if they figure it out......maybe way too many teams were allowed in Discovery or maybe not......while i do hate to see a 6-0, 7-0, 8-0 or 9-0 score in youth soccer it has happened to Southampton, Manchester City and Arsenal.....the key is to not let sixes and sevens in every league game......good luck to all and lets watch this space.........


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## Emma (Sep 16, 2021)

futboldad1 said:


> lol
> 
> It is week two of the various league seasons.....it will suck if families are driving all the way to oceanside or Silverlakes and paying for parking to win (or lose) by 6 or 7 goals......but as @watfly said give the kids a few more weeks to see if they figure it out......maybe way too many teams were allowed in Discovery or maybe not......while i do hate to see a 6-0, 7-0, 8-0 or 9-0 score in youth soccer it has happened to Southampton, Manchester City and Arsenal.....the key is to not let sixes and sevens in every league game......good luck to all and lets watch this space.........


Yes, adjustments will be made - teams that lost by that many goals will  (1) drop a lot of player to play defense and then start booting the ball forward hoping for some luck or (2) they will bring down players from higher teams.  Either way, the players on the existing team loses out on development for a whole season.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 16, 2021)

Emma said:


> Yes, adjustments will be made - teams that lost by that many goals will  (1) drop a lot of player to play defense and then start booting the ball forward hoping for some luck or (2) they will bring down players from higher teams.  Either way, the players on the existing team loses out on development for a whole season.


maybe.....I think it will vary by team.....


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## Woodwork (Sep 16, 2021)

Emma said:


> Yes, adjustments will be made - teams that lost by that many goals will  (1) drop a lot of player to play defense and then start booting the ball forward hoping for some luck or (2) they will bring down players from higher teams.  Either way, the players on the existing team loses out on development for a whole season.


You mean they will start doing what the other teams do?

I get development at u12, but Discovery is probably it for most of these kids.  This is the age where they should be reaping the rewards of all that "development" and learning to play to win.  This is the premier league for them.  Let them win a game or two for the love of all that is good and holy, development be damned. 

In any event, learning to bunker and counter isn't contrary to soccer development.  When players go to college or major leagues they aren't always on teams that control possession and they aren't always playing against teams that do level 1 press.  Effort, physicality, grinding, scoring on a "better" team against the run of play all build character.  At the end of the day, if you want to put the ball in the goal, you have to find a way to put the ball in the goal.


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## lafalafa (Sep 16, 2021)

__
		http://instagr.am/p/CT5mMp_gd9e/


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## timbuck (Sep 17, 2021)

RedCard said:


> Well, there are 46 total teams in the Boys 03/04 Discovery bracket which is wayyyyyyyy to many teams in my opinion. With that many teams, there are going to be a few teams that really don't belong in the Discovery bracket.


There are 116 total teams in the 03/04 age bracket.
They are set up:
50 - Discovery Teams
37 -Flight 1 Teams
21 -Flight 2 Teams
8 - Flight 4 Teams(not sure why they skip flight 3, but whatever).

I took statistics in college and barely remember it.  But I think the curve should probably look like:
29 - Discovery Teams (really should just be named Flight 1)
56- Flight 1 Teams (Really should just be named Flight 2)
29 - Flight 2 Teams (Really should just be named Flight 3)

But this lipstick covered pig is going to be hard to unwind.


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## dad4 (Sep 17, 2021)

timbuck said:


> There are 116 total teams in the 03/04 age bracket.
> They are set up:
> 50 - Discovery Teams
> 37 -Flight 1 Teams
> ...


Kids quit over time.  You slowly lose teams.

If you downgrade teams each year to keep the ratios right, kids will feel like all the work is pointless.  So you’ll lose kids even faster.

Not an issue for the TM of a top team.  But it creates a real problem for the lower ranked teams.

Norcal uses the grade inflation solution, too.  A medium skill team finally gets upgraded to “gold” right about the same time the top teams start premier.  No one is fooled.  But the kids are still happy to hear that they moved up.


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## Venantsyo (Sep 17, 2021)

For what is worth, in G09 there are:

8 teams in Discovery
28 teams in Flight 1
57 teams in Flight 2
60 teams in Flight 3

It appears a bit more balanced.


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## Woodwork (Sep 17, 2021)

dad4 said:


> No one is fooled.  But the kids are still happy to hear that they moved up.


Kind of like the city telling you they are improving your neighborhood, but then they just change street signs.  We live on Rodeo drive now!  Movin' up!


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## futboldad1 (Sep 17, 2021)

timbuck said:


> There are 116 total teams in the 03/04 age bracket.
> They are set up:
> 50 - Discovery Teams
> 37 -Flight 1 Teams
> ...


Agree, but the renaming of flights could be even more accurate/tough truth than you suggest above given MLS Next and ECNL.....after U12 there isn't really a flight 1 at all.......


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## lafalafa (Sep 17, 2021)

Self flight placement is what it is,  part wishful thinking,  part marketing, and partly only matters unless you value labels or results.

So who's getting some $45 hoodies and socal fan gear for their kids.

The plain socal ones not bad if not overpriced considering the "free" advertising.





__





						SOCAL State Cup - STATE CUP FAN SHOP - Capelli Sport
					






					teams.capellisport.com


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## dad4 (Sep 17, 2021)

Woodwork said:


> Kind of like the city telling you they are improving your neighborhood, but then they just change street signs.  We live on Rodeo drive now!  Movin' up!


Sort of.  But the street is still the same street.  The kid actually is getting better over time.  Nothing wrong will telling him so.


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## Woodwork (Sep 17, 2021)

dad4 said:


> The kid actually is getting better over time.  Nothing wrong will telling him so.


I do that all the time.  Kid doesn't need a flight label to know that.  Needs to see it in individual games. 

My kid isn't an idiot.  She understands that she is better at 16 than she was at 15, but so is everyone else and advancement is relative in direct competition.  If her team gets promoted even though they finished dead last, she doesn't think they got any better relative to other teams.  I would have to explain to her not to worry because all the teams got promoted and it is the same as last year.  She doesn't believe in the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus, so I am pretty much done lying to her.


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## pokergod (Sep 17, 2021)

Woodwork said:


> I do that all the time.  Kid doesn't need a flight label to know that.  Needs to see it in individual games.
> 
> My kid isn't an idiot.  She understands that she is better at 16 than she was at 15, but so is everyone else and advancement is relative in direct competition.  If her team gets promoted even though they finished dead last, she doesn't think they got any better relative to other teams.  I would have to explain to her not to worry because all the teams got promoted and it is the same as last year.  She doesn't believe in the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus, so I am pretty much done lying to her.


you are lucky.  my kid isn't that sharp.  he is flight iii but i have him convinced he is playing mls next.  he lives in a happy false bubble.  may not be great for his long term development but short term has been pleasant.


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## galaxydad (Sep 17, 2021)

ECNL, MLS Next are today’s premier teams- only a few Discovery teams can play with them on a regular basic. Clubs with RL/ MLS equivalent etc are the second teams (old gold). Clubs that have the above are playing their 3rd team in Discovery (old silver)


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## Messi>CR7 (Sep 17, 2021)

timbuck said:


> There are 116 total teams in the 03/04 age bracket.
> They are set up:
> 50 - Discovery Teams
> 37 -Flight 1 Teams
> ...


There is no need to be overly critical on how we label the flights.  In UK they don't call the second division Flight 2 either.  They call it "Championship".  LOL.


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## lafalafa (Sep 18, 2021)

Messi>CR7 said:


> There is no need to be overly critical on how we label the flights.  In UK they don't call the second division Flight 2 either.  They call it "Championship".  LOL.


They also have the pub league so using adult monikers for youth doesn't really translate.

No reason to be misleading or gloss up the different brackets, kids know what's up.  They don't need labels 

A,B,D, 1-4 Call them what they really are,. Hiding behind some marketing terms like discovery is just for the parents or clubs.


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## lafalafa (Sep 22, 2021)

Socal league could be two tiers:. Competitive and Recreational.    

Competitive could travel but starts @ 11v11 only. High school team players would fit in this tier and games scheduled appropriately.

Recreational is everyone else flight x to 4.   Local play in the same county home & away.  All 9v9 or youngers +  other 11v11 teams that don't fit or earn there ways into competitive by winning tournaments, leagues, etc. 

League cup for rec at the end of the fall season before winter break. 

Of course those names won't sell so you get "discovery", flight 4, super elite, blah,  blah


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## dad4 (Sep 22, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Socal league could be two tiers:. Competitive and Recreational.
> 
> Competitive could travel but starts @ 11v11 only. High school team players would fit in this tier and games scheduled appropriately.
> 
> ...


So, the top 9v9 players in socal would all play rec?

That would pretty much ruin the game for normal rec players.  Why bother learning to dribble?  Just kick the ball to mini-Marta.  She’ll score.  But next week we play the team with mini-Becky.  The whole team will enjoy watching those two play.


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## espola (Sep 22, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Socal league could be two tiers:. Competitive and Recreational.
> 
> Competitive could travel but starts @ 11v11 only. High school team players would fit in this tier and games scheduled appropriately.
> 
> ...


How about rec leagues setting their fees so that there is enough left over to pay for free entry to the post-season tournament for the highest finishers in the league?


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## Woodwork (Sep 22, 2021)

dad4 said:


> So, the top 9v9 players in socal would all play rec?
> 
> That would pretty much ruin the game for normal rec players.  Why bother learning to dribble?  Just kick the ball to mini-Marta.  She’ll score.  But next week we play the team with mini-Becky.  The whole team will enjoy watching those two play.


I for one want to watch mini-Marta and mini-Becky!


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## lafalafa (Sep 22, 2021)

dad4 said:


> So, the top 9v9 players in socal would all play rec?
> 
> That would pretty much ruin the game for normal rec players.  Why bother learning to dribble?  Just kick the ball to mini-Marta.  She’ll score.  But next week we play the team with mini-Becky.  The whole team will enjoy watching those two play.


Nope more competitive 9v9 can play for vs other "Top" teams but locally or in the same county/region.   it's called recreation since that's what it is. 

Rec can have different flights but without the 6 hours to travel to play another so called top team. Plenty of travel tournaments for that and many years at 11v11.


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## dad4 (Sep 22, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Nope more competitive 9v9 can play for vs other "Top" teams but locally or in the same county/region.   it's called recreation since that's what it is.
> 
> Rec can have different flights but without the 6 hours to travel to play another so called top team. Plenty of travel tournaments for that and many years at 11v11.


I like the plan to keep it local.   Even 11v11, 6 hours for a league game is crazy.

You use the word “rec” differently than I do.   To me, it means local leagues with no tryouts.  Also a good thing, but completely different from what you mean.


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## dad4 (Sep 22, 2021)

Woodwork said:


> I for one want to watch mini-Marta and mini-Becky!


They play near the polo fields in August every year.


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## timbuck (Nov 9, 2021)

If you played in Discovery this year (and your team was in the top half of the standings), will you try to have your kid play discovery again next year?
(Assuming no major changes to the structure around game locations, etc. And assuming your kid is not going to move "up" to ECNL).


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## GT45 (Nov 9, 2021)

timbuck said:


> If you played in Discovery this year (and your team was in the top half of the standings), will you try to have your kid play discovery again next year?
> (Assuming no major changes to the structure around game locations, etc. And assuming your kid is not going to move "up" to ECNL).


Candidly, after all of the driving and no home games, I would look to get my kid on an ECRL team (if not able to make an ECNL team). That way half of our games are in Orange County. 4.5-5 hours (2 hour game, arrive an hour early, and drive both ways) for every game on a Saturday and/or Sunday is ridiculous.

I think the intent of the division is very good. But the execution creates burnout for players and parents (especially the older players who have other things they want to do on the weekends).


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## timbuck (Nov 9, 2021)

GT45 said:


> Candidly, after all of the driving and no home games, I would look to* get my kid on an ECRL team* (if not able to make an ECNL team). That way half of our games are in Orange County. 4.5-5 hours (2 hour game, arrive an hour early, and drive both ways) for every game on a Saturday and/or Sunday is ridiculous.
> 
> I think the intent of the division is very good. But the execution creates burnout for players and parents (especially the older players who have other things they want to do on the weekends).


Why not "just" flight 1?


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## Venantsyo (Nov 9, 2021)

timbuck said:


> If you played in Discovery this year (and your team was in the top half of the standings), will you try to have your kid play discovery again next year?
> (Assuming no major changes to the structure around game locations, etc. And assuming your kid is not going to move "up" to ECNL).


Yes, possibly for both kids. For us drive to Silverlakes is not too bad and facilities are good.
Not interested in the drive required for ECNL/ECRL (assuming kids would be good enough, which they are probably not)

EDIT: much different story if we get sent to Oceanside. That would be a no no


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## sascbreakaway83 (Nov 9, 2021)

timbuck said:


> If you played in Discovery this year (and your team was in the top half of the standings), will you try to have your kid play discovery again next year?
> (Assuming no major changes to the structure around game locations, etc. And assuming your kid is not going to move "up" to ECNL).


ECRL for the 09 boys is equivalent to flight 2. It’s pretty awful…it’s either Discovery or ECNL. I am sure next year you will see the best ECNL players migrate  MLS next.


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## Speed (Nov 9, 2021)

Venantsyo said:


> Yes, possibly for both kids. For us drive to Silverlakes is not too bad and facilities are good.
> Not interested in the drive required for ECNL/ECRL (assuming kids would be good enough, which they are probably not)
> 
> EDIT: much different story if we get sent to Oceanside. That would be a no no


we play ECRL and have gone out of the area 2x


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## lafalafa (Nov 9, 2021)

Survey says travel sports are just getting more expensive.

The transportation costs alone are getting to be too much and when you work weekends forget about it.

More local play in the long run will save $$, time, and be better for many things. Not having fans, friends, family members at games cheering the players is kind of a bummer for everyone. 

Should just reconsider,  instead of 400 teams traveling distance ever weekend to play at complexes make that just 100 or so.  Top 12 teams each age group or something like that, everyone else home and away local.   The self flighting thing is kind of joke, earned it in some other way either through a play in tournament or some other standardized way.

The rat system chasing cheese (dubs) is just a marketing ploy, talk with your club management and demand change.


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## graciesdad (Nov 12, 2021)

We are SoCal Flight 2 team and scrimmage a Discovery team all the time. Matches are dead even. Found our happy place in Fight 2. Good competition and limited travel. Just quit drinking the acronym Kool Aid.


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## Speed (Nov 13, 2021)

graciesdad said:


> We are SoCal Flight 2 team and scrimmage a Discovery team all the time. Matches are dead even. Found our happy place in Fight 2. Good competition and limited travel. Just quit drinking the acronym Kool Aid.


girls team?


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## graciesdad (Nov 13, 2021)

Speed said:


> girls team?


Yep


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## Speed (Nov 14, 2021)

graciesdad said:


> Yep


I have a DS and DD players I can see what you're saying on the girls side but no way on boys.


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## chipmonk (Nov 15, 2021)

timbuck said:


> If you played in Discovery this year (and your team was in the top half of the standings), will you try to have your kid play discovery again next year?
> (Assuming no major changes to the structure around game locations, etc. And assuming your kid is not going to move "up" to ECNL).


Yes. It’s the best balance local practices, good game competition with 1 hour travel to silverlakes being worth it for the field quality vs random and usually not so local, 2nd rate fields. Fight 1 travel for games doesn’t seem much better in a lot of cases even when averaging in 1/2 home games. 

I’d love to see a real pyramid with equal opportunity regardless of club name replace the mess, but US sports just aren’t structured that way.


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## paytoplay (Nov 15, 2021)

chipmonk said:


> Yes. It’s the best balance local practices, good game competition with 1 hour travel to silverlakes being worth it for the field quality vs random and usually not so local, 2nd rate fields. Fight 1 travel for games doesn’t seem much better in a lot of cases even when averaging in 1/2 home games.
> 
> I’d love to see a real pyramid with equal opportunity regardless of club name replace the mess, but US sports just aren’t structured that way.


I think GA has the advantage over Discovery in ideal field quality and playing conditions. Perusing GAL and DPL venues I see mostly HS and College Stadiums, Great Park, Surf Park, along with 1/2 home games and the location not being extreme-heat silverlakes, but rather many coastal areas. Add to that the video monitoring that comes with the league and higher average competitive level.


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## espola (Nov 15, 2021)

chipmonk said:


> Yes. It’s the best balance local practices, good game competition with 1 hour travel to silverlakes being worth it for the field quality vs random and usually not so local, 2nd rate fields. Fight 1 travel for games doesn’t seem much better in a lot of cases even when averaging in 1/2 home games.
> 
> I’d love to see a real pyramid with equal opportunity regardless of club name replace the mess, but US sports just aren’t structured that way.


US sports (at least in regards to soccer) cannot afford that.


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## timbuck (Nov 15, 2021)

I never thought I'd wish for games to be played in Norco.  The drive to Oceanside or Del Mar has been awful on Saturday and Sunday this year.
It really the entire day.  If you have multiple kids playing soccer (or other activities) there is really no chance you can catch more than 1 game per day, unless you have a night game.
If Discovery games were full of college scouts (i think this was one of the things discovery was promoting), then it could be worth the sacrifice.  But that has not been our experience this year (Our discovery player isn't looking to play in college- so a moot point for us- But for her teammates we'd be great helping to support them)


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## chipmonk (Nov 15, 2021)

paytoplay said:


> I think GA has the advantage over Discovery in ideal field quality and playing conditions. Perusing GAL and DPL venues I see mostly HS and College Stadiums, Great Park, Surf Park, along with 1/2 home games and the location not being extreme-heat silverlakes, but rather many coastal areas. Add to that the video monitoring that comes with the league and higher average competitive level.


DPL is significantly lower competitive level vs. the top 8 Discovery (at least in our age group). GAL wouldn’t be local practices. It would be nice not to have to do our own video, sure. Not trying to change anyone else’s mind, the weights and balances are pretty nuanced.

I do have another kid in CSL and travels the equivalent (maybe more) as what we would see in DPL/GAL/Flight 1

Besides, driving to Norco and singing some classic rock is the perfect way to make sure she wants to move out on her own when the time comes.


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## paytoplay (Nov 16, 2021)

chipmonk said:


> DPL is significantly lower competitive level vs. the top 8 Discovery (at least in our age group). GAL wouldn’t be local practices. It would be nice not to have to do our own video, sure. Not trying to change anyone else’s mind, the weights and balances are pretty nuanced.
> 
> I do have another kid in CSL and travels the equivalent (maybe more) as what we would see in DPL/GAL/Flight 1
> 
> Besides, driving to Norco and singing some classic rock is the perfect way to make sure she wants to move out on her own when the time comes.


Age group and location are important to the discussion. For the Orange County teams for girls 06, for example, what are the top discovery programs? This year, Liverpool left discovery for DPL. Strikers, Slammers and Blues play in ECNL/RL. If you’re in OC and go to a Blues discovery team, that’s third or fourth best team in the club at the age group. Looking at discovery SoCal standings and youthsportsrankings it’s hard to see any top OC-based discovery teams. In fact, looks like a lot of LA teams feasting on some lower level teams. If you are in OC, competitive level seems to go ECNL—ECRL—GA—DPL—Discovery. I guess we’ll see after the season if they relegate and sort out discovery, will there even be any OC teams?


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## chipmonk (Nov 16, 2021)

paytoplay said:


> Age group and location are important to the discussion. For the Orange County teams for girls 06, for example, what are the top discovery programs? This year, Liverpool left discovery for DPL. Strikers, Slammers and Blues play in ECNL/RL. If you’re in OC and go to a Blues discovery team, that’s third or fourth best team in the club at the age group. Looking at discovery SoCal standings and youthsportsrankings it’s hard to see any top OC-based discovery teams. In fact, looks like a lot of LA teams feasting on some lower level teams. If you are in OC, competitive level seems to go ECNL—ECRL—GA—DPL—Discovery. I guess we’ll see after the season if they relegate and sort out discovery, will there even be any OC teams?


07. Not in OC. Socal State Cup has the top 2 ECRL teams in with the NPL / Flight 1 teams + a few more ECRL teams. It looks like only one of the ECRL teams is bringing in ECNL players (8 rostered!). I expect the top ECRL teams to have competitive matches with the top Disco teams. The 3rd place DPL team wouldn't have been promoted from Flight 1 before they switched to DPL. You'd probably have a really good league if you took the top 2 from ECRL, GA, DPL, Discovery in the 07s, but since that won't happen it's probably a toss up between the top 8 between ECRL and Discovery.

For travel purposes, ECRL would be 1/2 home games, 1/4 long drives, 1/4 way too long drives with roughly similar level of play. Since you like YSR, the average ranking gives +.02 to Discovery (the median ECRL ranking is +.16). So roughly similar level of play.

DPL is -.95
ECNL is +2.6

If you take just the top 6 of ECRL, Discovery, GA it's ECRL +.4 over Discovery which is +.4 over GA.


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