# How is the MLS league different from DA?



## gkmom (May 15, 2020)

Will there be any major differences, or more of the same?


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## Giesbock (May 15, 2020)

The first obvious difference is they left out half or more of young elite players in this country! The girls.

In MLS’s carefully crafted announcement letter, the author talked about including the entire soccer family... whoops...

But I get it. Economics are completely different.

Would be cool to see leaders in the women’s game take the reins of girls clubs...Mia, Abby, Carly, Megan, Tobin, Alex.


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## Ellejustus (May 15, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> The first obvious difference is they left out half or more of young elite players in this country! The girls.
> 
> In MLS’s carefully crafted announcement letter, the author talked about including the entire soccer family... whoops...
> 
> ...


Brother Giesbock, this has always been my argument.  The girls get left out bro.  There just girls and boys come first. When LA Galaxy announced a Girls DA, fully funded girls program and equal treatment and all that cool stuff, I was sold and so happy. "Finally" I said.  "The girls will be treated equally" I said to myself in my little brain.  Fully funded too bro.  Yes sir, that was 100% being sold in 2016 for the new 2017-2018 GDA league that I heard MLS was going to support with $$$$.  So the first ones let go are the girls? Of course, what else is new.  Just read about how my dd was treated when she was 12 bro.  Foreign Docs lying numerous times through their teeth to her face!!!!  Coaches screaming at little 11 and 12 year olds.  This had to get shut down to fix all the wrongs.  The cool thing brother, my dd still loves and wants to play soccer.  She is enjoying surfing right now and is starting to rip some cool off the lips and tube rides   Maybe a pro surfer instead?  I could have gone pro but I was way into Jah back then and surfed for the peace brah and not with a dog leash and all those NSSA contests.


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## Desert Hound (May 15, 2020)

I would think the difference is as follows. 

In theory the idea behind DA was to get/create a pipeline for the various national teams (adult/youth). 
In theory to have a consistent training methodology so US Soccer could "plug and play" players from various areas into their teams. 

MLS? MLS is concerned about creating a pipeline into the pro leagues. 
I would think that the MLS academies are the important clubs in this new league as well. 

We just had in DA the oldest age group split between basically the MLS clubs and the rest. 
I would think that will happen in the MLS league at some point as well. If the MLS clubs were unhappy their youth had to play inferior opponents in DA, why would including those same clubs into a new MLS suddenly become better. 

I personally think that as the MLS academies age and get better and more widespread, the MLS starts to get better. And as the MLS gets better, US Soccer has a better pool to pick from.


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## EOTL (May 15, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Brother Giesbock, this has always been my argument.  The girls get left out bro.  There just girls and boys come first. When LA Galaxy announced a Girls DA, fully funded girls program and equal treatment and all that cool stuff, I was sold and so happy. "Finally" I said.  "The girls will be treated equally" I said to myself in my little brain.  Fully funded too bro.  Yes sir, that was 100% being sold in 2016 for the new 2017-2018 GDA league that I heard MLS was going to support with $$$$.  So the first ones let go are the girls? Of course, what else is new.  Just read about how my dd was treated when she was 12 bro.  Foreign Docs lying numerous times through their teeth to her face!!!!  Coaches screaming at little 11 and 12 year olds.  This had to get shut down to fix all the wrongs.  The cool thing brother, my dd still loves and wants to play soccer.  She is enjoying surfing right now and is starting to rip some cool off the lips and tube rides   Maybe a pro surfer instead?  I could have gone pro but I was way into Jah back then and surfed for the peace brah and not with a dog leash and all those NSSA contests.


Yes, your daughter should become a pro surfer.  That sounds like a much better idea than pro soccer player and, with a father who “could have gone pro” as a coach, she won’t have to worry about any more coaches with delusions of grandeur.


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## Ellejustus (May 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Yes, your daughter should become a pro surfer.  That sounds like a much better idea than pro soccer player and, with a father who “could have gone pro” as a coach, she won’t have to worry about any more coaches with delusions of grandeur.


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## watfly (May 15, 2020)

gkmom said:


> Will there be any major differences, or more of the same?


Way too early to tell.  But my suspicion is that it will be just another league like DA was.  I hope I'm wrong.


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## outside! (May 15, 2020)

Being a pro surfer would be WAY better than being a pro soccer player. The work locations are better (a beach versus some pitch somewhere). You would almost never work at night. I doubt fans would ever make racists chants or throw things at the athletes. It would be fairly easy to make sure you never have to work when frozen water is falling from the sky.

If the MLS League teams in California ever use publicly funded facilities, an argument could be made they are in violation of AB2404 by not providing equal opportunities for girls.


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## MacDre (May 15, 2020)

gkmom said:


> Will there be any major differences, or more of the same?


They will have a better patch, the coaches will have nicer track suits, and the Kool-Aid will be gluten free.


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## timbuck (May 15, 2020)

Even an amateur surfer gets free clothing.  And sponsors can pay for entry fees.


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## gkmom (May 15, 2020)

Why didn't San Diego Surf join? Very surprised to see that.


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## watfly (May 15, 2020)

gkmom said:


> Why didn't San Diego Surf join? Very surprised to see that.


They jumped ship early to ECNL.  I suspect because of the importance of the girls sided and likely because they could exert more influence over the ECNL than the MLS league.  Plus they probably didn't want to play second fiddle (on the boys side) to the better MLS clubs.


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## jpeter (May 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> Way too early to tell.  But my suspicion is that it will be just another league like DA was.  I hope I'm wrong.


This, will need at least a full season to compare.

I don't think it will be just another league for the MLS units.  For Non-MLS yes until they get some training solidarity payments.  For MLS they need to have a better return in the investments. If they don't see it eventually it will go they way da did.


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## GoolRonaldo7 (May 15, 2020)

To be honest, I think this "MLS Elite" league is all a smokescreen, MLS league? I don't think so, I've heard it will have different categories, one for MLS clubs and then a separate category for those "elite" clubs. Why not have both regular club teams and MLS play against each other?


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## Ellejustus (May 15, 2020)

I'm starting a new "Elite Surfing Club." Basically, I teach you how to become an elite surfer.  More news to come if @Dominic is ok with me sharing this new concept that also has beach soccer tied to it?  I don;t want to break the rules like some do on here


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## R2564952 (May 15, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> The first obvious difference is they left out half or more of young elite players in this country! The girls.
> 
> In MLS’s carefully crafted announcement letter, the author talked about including the entire soccer family... whoops...
> 
> ...





Giesbock said:


> The first obvious difference is they left out half or more of young elite players in this country! The girls.
> 
> In MLS’s carefully crafted announcement letter, the author talked about including the entire soccer family... whoops...
> 
> ...


 Girls are not MLS responsibility, 
Parents of girls should complain to NWSL and ask them to start a league and invest in the players they will ultimately profit from. They’ve done a great job at putting the cost on everyone else yet support equal pay. #equalinvestment


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## Giesbock (May 17, 2020)

R2564952 said:


> Girls are not MLS responsibility,
> Parents of girls should complain to NWSL and ask them to start a league and invest in the players they will ultimately profit from. They’ve done a great job at putting the cost on everyone else yet support equal pay. #equalinvestment


I understand that MLS has no responsibility for the girl’s game, since this new version will be a pathway for boys to go pro.

But, MLS could benefit by continuing to build the broad, general interest in the game from a fan base perspective. Viewership. Team apparel sales. Moms who love the Seattle Sounders like moms love the Philadelphia Eagles or Boston Red Socks...

I don’t have stats to support this, but anecdotally, parents spend more on their daughters than on sons, irregardless of whether there’s a pathway to becoming a well paid pro or not.

It may not be a completely fair comparison, but many of the major men’s teams abroad also help support a girls /women’s counterpart. I guess Galaxy was tinkering with that but no one has figured out a business model that works. 

I agree, time for leaders of the women’s game and NWSL to step up and support girl’s youth soccer either financially or through active leadership on team and league boards.  Would be awesome to see.


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## Messi>CR7 (May 17, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> I understand that MLS has no responsibility for the girl’s game, since this new version will be a pathway for boys to go pro.
> 
> But, MLS could benefit by continuing to build the broad, general interest in the game from a fan base perspective. Viewership. Team apparel sales. Moms who love the Seattle Sounders like moms love the Philadelphia Eagles or Boston Red Socks...
> 
> ...


The problem is, as you said, the benefits to the club are only there anecdotally.  Eagles and Red Soxs are not investing in women' football league or softball.

I believe a professional league needs to stand on its own.  It's an entertainment.  We all make fun of greedy people making money from soccer on this website.  But that also means if there is money to be made in soccer, someone will put together a business plan to do it.  If not, the ROI is not there.

Lastly, the problem with a subsidized league is that the payroll will always be limited, and its survival will always be on shaky ground.  Spanish Primera Division's women had a strike last year just to ask for a meager €20K per year.


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## Banana Hammock (May 18, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> I understand that MLS has no responsibility for the girl’s game, since this new version will be a pathway for boys to go pro.
> 
> But, MLS could benefit by continuing to build the broad, general interest in the game from a fan base perspective. Viewership. Team apparel sales. Moms who love the Seattle Sounders like moms love the Philadelphia Eagles or Boston Red Socks...
> 
> ...


Here is the reasons that the NWSL will not sponsor a league for the girls like the MLS for the boys.
1.  None of them make a profit.
2.  ENCL/clubs do all the development and then Title 9 takes care of development in college, why spend money when most of the work is already done.  Just stand back and offer the dreamers a pittance to keep playing.
3.  The success of the USWNT will eventually draw enough people that they make a profit without investing more than they have to.


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## Giesbock (May 18, 2020)

Banana Hammock said:


> Here is the reasons that the NWSL will not sponsor a league for the girls like the MLS for the boys.
> 1.  None of them make a profit.
> 2.  ENCL/clubs do all the development and then Title 9 takes care of development in college, why spend money when most of the work is already done.  Just stand back and offer the dreamers a pittance to keep playing.
> 3.  The success of the USWNT will eventually draw enough people that they make a profit without investing more than they have to.


This explanation makes sense. Thanks.


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## Ellejustus (May 18, 2020)

Banana Hammock said:


> Here is the reasons that the NWSL will not sponsor a league for the girls like the MLS for the boys.
> 1.  None of them make a profit.
> 2.  ENCL/clubs do all the development and then Title 9 takes care of development in college, why spend money when most of the work is already done.  Just stand back and offer the dreamers a pittance to keep playing.
> 3.  The success of the USWNT will eventually draw enough people that they make a profit without investing more than they have to.


Such a bummer that in order for your dd to play in America after college you have to pay for her to be a pro.  No thanks!!!


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## dreamz (May 18, 2020)

GoolRonaldo7 said:


> To be honest, I think this "MLS Elite" league is all a smokescreen, MLS league? I don't think so, I've heard it will have different categories, one for MLS clubs and then a separate category for those "elite" clubs. Why not have both regular club teams and MLS play against each other?


The non-MLS are only involved for filler games and for MLS reserves to get their games in. I’m not sure the parents understand that yet. They will be shit on, taken advantage of, will travel more and they will be the bottom of the food chain. MLS clubs don’t want to play non-MLS but they need the filler games. Attached is the competitive format (shhhh, it’s top secret) and as you can see the MLS teams are only committing to 20% of their games being played against non-MLS in specific age groups and everything else is TBD. 

I think this was the inevitable next step for MLS. It’s years in the making so they can do what they want and not be under the control of US Soccer but the better move for the non-MLS was boys ECNL which just gained legitimacy on the boys side because of the clubs that jumped in on that. I’m guessing that the clubs that got in to this MLS league weren’t accepted in to ECNL so they had to have some flavor of kool-aid for their families to drink. I doubt anyone would turn down the established ECNL platform for a new and unproven league just because MLS is backing it.


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## watfly (May 18, 2020)

dreamz said:


> The non-MLS are only involved for filler games and for MLS reserves to get their games in. I’m not sure the parents understand that yet. They will be shit on, taken advantage of, will travel more and they will be the bottom of the food chain. MLS clubs don’t want to play non-MLS but they need the filler games. Attached is the competitive format (shhhh, it’s top secret) and as you can see the MLS teams are only committing to 20% of their games being played against non-MLS in specific age groups and everything else is TBD.
> 
> I think this was the inevitable next step for MLS. It’s years in the making so they can do what they want and not be under the control of US Soccer but the better move for the non-MLS was boys ECNL which just gained legitimacy on the boys side because of the clubs that jumped in on that. I’m guessing that the clubs that got in to this MLS league weren’t accepted in to ECNL so they had to have some flavor of kool-aid for their families to drink. I doubt anyone would turn down the established ECNL platform for a new and unproven league just because MLS is backing it.


We're a non-MLS team in the MLS league and our DOC had said that we'd be play non-MLS teams more than MLS teams due to competitive differences.  It makes sense to me.  IDK what Koolaid other DOC's are selling.  I'm still skeptical about the MLS league until play begins, but the support of USYS is very significant to the viability of the league.  At the end of the day, DA, MLS, ECNL are just leagues nothing more, nothing less.  If someone tells you otherwise they're drinking the Koolaid.


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## Messi>CR7 (May 18, 2020)

dreamz said:


> The non-MLS are only involved for filler games and for MLS reserves to get their games in. I’m not sure the parents understand that yet. They will be shit on, taken advantage of, will travel more and they will be the bottom of the food chain. MLS clubs don’t want to play non-MLS but they need the filler games. Attached is the competitive format (shhhh, it’s top secret) and as you can see the MLS teams are only committing to 20% of their games being played against non-MLS in specific age groups and everything else is TBD.
> 
> I think this was the inevitable next step for MLS. It’s years in the making so they can do what they want and not be under the control of US Soccer but the better move for the non-MLS was boys ECNL which just gained legitimacy on the boys side because of the clubs that jumped in on that. I’m guessing that the clubs that got in to this MLS league weren’t accepted in to ECNL so they had to have some flavor of kool-aid for their families to drink. I doubt anyone would turn down the established ECNL platform for a new and unproven league just because MLS is backing it.


I like the fact that they actually spelled out the 80% vs 20% (assuming your attachment is public information).  As long as it's transparent, it's up to each player to decide what works for him.


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## watfly (May 18, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> I like the fact that they actually spelled out the 80% vs 20% (assuming your attachment is public information).  As long as it's transparent, it's up to each player to decide what works for him.


Someone else can do the math, but that's probably the ratio of MLS to non-MLS teams in the league anyway.


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## dreamz (May 18, 2020)

watfly said:


> We're a non-MLS team in the MLS league and our DOC had said that we'd be play non-MLS teams more than MLS teams due to competitive differences.  It makes sense to me.  IDK what Koolaid other DOC's are selling.  I'm still skeptical about the MLS league until play begins, but the support of USYS is very significant to the viability of the league.  At the end of the day, DA, MLS, ECNL are just leagues nothing more, nothing less.  If someone tells you otherwise they're drinking the Koolaid.


In reading the USYS announcement their “collaboration‘ is more with the MLS directly. Here is the only thing they mention about this league “_USYS also looks forward to collaborating with the new MLS elite youth competition platform which will include more than 8,000 players throughout the U.S. and Canada and will consist of elite year- round competition, as well as player identification initiatives, coaching education opportunities, and additional programming to create the premier player development environment.’_

Which Is basically what USYS offers every member anyways. Player ID initiatives = ODP, Coaching Education = because that’s where they make their money and additional programming to create player development environments = vague statement meaning nothing at this time since no details are provided.

The MLS league originally stated they were going to be sanctioned through USSSA, this could also be a move by USYS to keep those 8,000 players worth of registration dollars. If they still sanction through USSSA then the collaboration is truly only at the MLS level. The issue will be if USYS tries to put their foot into this pond they are going to stir the muddy waters because of the USYS philosophy of being ”all inclusive” instead of “Exclusive”. This league should only be one of all of the numerous leagues they sanction, not one that is elevated above the numerous leagues they sanction. This makes your statement Watfly on point. ”At the end of the day DA, MLS, ECNL are just leagues, nothing more, nothing less”. What koolaid flavor everyone likes to drink is up to them.


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## dreamz (May 18, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> I like the fact that they actually spelled out the 80% vs 20% (assuming your attachment is public information).  As long as it's transparent, it's up to each player to decide what works for him.


That document isn’t public info. It was part of the contract signed by the non-MLS clubs that are part of this league. Whether or not the clubs share this information with the parents is another story. They should be transparent about it. Whether they are or aren’t is another story.


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## BIGD (May 19, 2020)

dreamz said:


> The non-MLS are only involved for filler games and for MLS reserves to get their games in. I’m not sure the parents understand that yet. They will be shit on, taken advantage of, will travel more and they will be the bottom of the food chain. MLS clubs don’t want to play non-MLS but they need the filler games. Attached is the competitive format (shhhh, it’s top secret) and as you can see the MLS teams are only committing to 20% of their games being played against non-MLS in specific age groups and everything else is TBD.
> 
> I think this was the inevitable next step for MLS. It’s years in the making so they can do what they want and not be under the control of US Soccer but the better move for the non-MLS was boys ECNL which just gained legitimacy on the boys side because of the clubs that jumped in on that. I’m guessing that the clubs that got in to this MLS league weren’t accepted in to ECNL so they had to have some flavor of kool-aid for their families to drink. I doubt anyone would turn down the established ECNL platform for a new and unproven league just because MLS is backing it.


I think you have plenty of former DA parents that would be okay in the Elite pathway with the "chance" of the Pro Pathway, regardless of how many games they play the MLS clubs, than not in consideration at all (ECNL).  That's basically what the DA offered to some extent.  Potential ID for national team/MLS clubs.  Agree, it's ALL koolaid drinking but we have lots of thirsty grown ups.


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## Ellejustus (May 19, 2020)

BIGD said:


> I think you have plenty of former DA parents that would be okay in the Elite pathway with the "chance" of the Pro Pathway, regardless of how many games they play the MLS clubs, than not in consideration at all (ECNL).  That's basically what the DA offered to some extent.  Potential ID for national team/MLS clubs.  Agree, it's ALL koolaid drinking but we have lots of thirsty grown ups.


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## Dargle (May 19, 2020)

dreamz said:


> The non-MLS are only involved for filler games and for MLS reserves to get their games in. I’m not sure the parents understand that yet. They will be shit on, taken advantage of, will travel more and they will be the bottom of the food chain. MLS clubs don’t want to play non-MLS but they need the filler games. Attached is the competitive format (shhhh, it’s top secret) and as you can see the MLS teams are only committing to 20% of their games being played against non-MLS in specific age groups and everything else is TBD.
> 
> I think this was the inevitable next step for MLS. It’s years in the making so they can do what they want and not be under the control of US Soccer but the better move for the non-MLS was boys ECNL which just gained legitimacy on the boys side because of the clubs that jumped in on that. I’m guessing that the clubs that got in to this MLS league weren’t accepted in to ECNL so they had to have some flavor of kool-aid for their families to drink. I doubt anyone would turn down the established ECNL platform for a new and unproven league just because MLS is backing it.


If that attachment is accurate, it sounds like the non-MLS teams in U15 in Socal will get MORE games against MLS Academy teams than they did when they were in DA.  In DA at U14, they got 4 games against Galaxy and LAFC (two each) out of 28 games (assuming they played no MLS teams in the showcase).  In other words, they only got a little over 14% of their games against MLS teams.  Now they get 20% against MLS Academy teams according to the right side of the table in the attachment, or 8 out of 40.  The rest of their games are against former DA teams that are not affiliated with an MLS team, which is the same as they had in DA.  

Even if we assume the former DA clubs in Boys ECNL negotiated a similar 80/20 split so they could mostly play the other former DA teams (and I don't know if that is true), that still leaves them playing 20% of their games against the pre-existing Boys ECNL teams, many of whom in Socal were not even competitive against CSL Gold teams and SCDSL Flt 1 Championship teams.  

So, it seems like both groups of non-MLS former DA teams may continue to mostly play other non-MLS DA teams for the majority of their games, but the ones in the MLS league play stronger teams for the rest of their games and the one in Boys ECNL play weaker teams for the rest of their games.


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## BIGD (May 20, 2020)

Dargle said:


> If that attachment is accurate, it sounds like the non-MLS teams in U15 in Socal will get MORE games against MLS Academy teams than they did when they were in DA.  In DA at U14, they got 4 games against Galaxy and LAFC (two each) out of 28 games (assuming they played no MLS teams in the showcase).  In other words, they only got a little over 14% of their games against MLS teams.  Now they get 20% against MLS Academy teams according to the right side of the table in the attachment, or 8 out of 40.  The rest of their games are against former DA teams that are not affiliated with an MLS team, which is the same as they had in DA.
> 
> Even if we assume the former DA clubs in Boys ECNL negotiated a similar 80/20 split so they could mostly play the other former DA teams (and I don't know if that is true), that still leaves them playing 20% of their games against the pre-existing Boys ECNL teams, many of whom in Socal were not even competitive against CSL Gold teams and SCDSL Flt 1 Championship teams.
> 
> So, it seems like both groups of non-MLS former DA teams may continue to mostly play other non-MLS DA teams for the majority of their games, but the ones in the MLS league play stronger teams for the rest of their games and the one in Boys ECNL play weaker teams for the rest of their games.


So how long until those former DA clubs in ECNL are negotiating to switch to the MLS League?


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## vegasguy (May 20, 2020)

BIGD said:


> That's basically what the DA offered to some extent. Potential ID for national team/MLS clubs.


That is probably true especially on the YNT ID but many Boys ECNL Players and other Club players have been targeted by the MLS and accepted into their academies across America.


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## vegasguy (May 20, 2020)

BIGD said:


> So how long until those former DA clubs in ECNL are negotiating to switch to the MLS League?


And we are back to which is the stronger league.  I could say that the Non-MLS teams will still be trying to get into boys ECNL.  It is a set-up in place with showcases over 4 dates throughout the country and close enough to limit travel.  Are Nomads and City going to get tired of playing Albion over and over.   I think right now the Southwest is where there are great players in both leagues and it will be interesting to see where they all land.


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## BIGD (May 20, 2020)

vegasguy said:


> And we are back to which is the stronger league.  I could say that the Non-MLS teams will still be trying to get into boys ECNL.  It is a set-up in place with showcases over 4 dates throughout the country and close enough to limit travel.  Are Nomads and City going to get tired of playing Albion over and over.   I think right now the Southwest is where there are great players in both leagues and it will be interesting to see where they all land.


I think it's more of which is the league that is _perceived_ to offer what the thirsty parents are after.  Playing MLS clubs seems to be a big draw.  Give it a year of MLS and if they seem to have it together, clubs like Surf will likely attempt the one foot in each league approach with their boys teams that they did on the girls side with ECNL/DA, if not just make the switch entirely.


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## Cibo (May 20, 2020)

I think it's pretty simple, MLS will have a stronger Boys league now and into the future and ECNL will continue  to have the stronger Girls league. With the DA shut down, the only real change is that ECNL will have even more of the top girls than before. Most of the top boy players whos clubs that moved to ECNL will eventually move to a nearby MLS league club.


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## vegasguy (May 20, 2020)

Cibo said:


> I think it's pretty simple, MLS will have a stronger Boys league now and into the future and ECNL will continue  to have the stronger Girls league. With the DA shut down, the only real change is that ECNL will have even more of the top girls than before. Most of the top boy players whos clubs that moved to ECNL will eventually move to a nearby MLS league club.


I think you discount the fact that across the country many strong former DA clubs moved into boys DA and really is playing LA Galaxy and LAFC twice the biggest draw in the southwest?  Or is it that one road trip to SLC the draw.  MLS only brought in the other non-MLS clubs to limit their travel expense.      I do not doubt the the MLS teams are stronger but the rest of the non-MLS teams across America are on par with Boys ECNL.  Coming into your last few years you are looking for exposure and I think Boys ECNL will have that in their showcases.   I hope for a inter-league showcase at some point but we are governed by two differing bodies  USClub and USYS.


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## Sokrplayer75 (May 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I'm starting a new "Elite Surfing Club." Basically, I teach you how to become an elite surfer.  More news to come if @Dominic is ok with me sharing this new concept that also has beach soccer tied to it?  I don;t want to break the rules like some do on here


Here is where the true GOATS surf...…..your lessons can start here


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## Cibo (May 20, 2020)

vegasguy said:


> I think you discount the fact that across the country many strong former DA clubs moved into boys DA and really is playing LA Galaxy and LAFC twice the biggest draw in the southwest?  Or is it that one road trip to SLC the draw.  MLS only brought in the other non-MLS clubs to limit their travel expense.      I do not doubt the the MLS teams are stronger but the rest of the non-MLS teams across America are on par with Boys ECNL.  Coming into your last few years you are looking for exposure and I think Boys ECNL will have that in their showcases.   I hope for a inter-league showcase at some point but we are governed by two differing bodies  USClub and USYS.


Inter-league showcase would be great but not gonna happen for reason you pointed out. I disagree that the non-mls clubs are on par with Boys ECNL. The bottom DA teams were on par with the top boy's ECNL teams last year. Now ECNL did pick-up some quality clubs like Crossfire. But I do believe the top Boy's ECNL players where possible will gravitate to an MLS League Club. The difference between the leagues is closer I will say on the boy's side than the girls side where ECNL now clearly has the best pathway for the girls if it wasn't already clear before.


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## vegasguy (May 20, 2020)

Cibo said:


> But I do believe the top Boy's ECNL players where possible will gravitate to an MLS League Club


Yeah in areas with MLS teams.  But what about the non MLS locations.. Is a player at Chula Vista going to drive to LA to play?  I know players at some of these teams have been knocking on the ECNL door already.  MLS' League is still undefined where ECNL is already working on schedules and showcases for 20/21.    ECNL sends players to MLS Academies all the time so the pathway argument is thin.  Again, there are a ton great players in both leagues.  I just think ECNL wins this year.  There is no proof bottom last year non-mls teams are better than the majority of ECNL as they never played because of DA rules.


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## Ellejustus (May 20, 2020)

Start them with a raft at the Wedge.....lol!!!


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## Sokrplayer75 (May 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Start them with a raft at the Wedge.....lol!!!
> 
> View attachment 7254


LOL, early takeoff for a raft! GOAT ISLAND on the East side of Oahu, barreling left was pic. Your Elite soccer league can get some waves and few games in on the beach, as long as they avoid that shallow reef!


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## Ellejustus (May 20, 2020)

Sokrplayer75 said:


> LOL, early takeoff for a raft! GOAT ISLAND on the East side of Oahu, barreling left was pic. Your Elite soccer league can get some waves and few games in on the beach, as long as they avoid that shallow reef!


This is something that could work.  Make it a beach cleat too.  Can you imagine the showcases I could put on?  Teaching all the girls and boys how to become a world class surfer dude like Kelly, Booth, Buttons, Mark Richards, Shawn Thompson and my boy Parsons.  Socal Elite Surfing Academy, SESA brah!!!  If soccer can make world class players, I can make world class surfers.  My practice fields are free too,  HB pier 4 days a week, 10 months out of the year.  You get the point.......


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## dreamz (May 20, 2020)

vegasguy said:


> And we are back to which is the stronger league.  I could say that the Non-MLS teams will still be trying to get into boys ECNL.  It is a set-up in place with showcases over 4 dates throughout the country and close enough to limit travel.  Are Nomads and City going to get tired of playing Albion over and over.   I think right now the Southwest is where there are great players in both leagues and it will be interesting to see where they all land.


High school may end up playing a bigger part in this too. The girls all got high school back and boys ECNL allows for HS so only the MLS league doesn’t allow for it and it’s a 10-month season. Those non-MLS teams may not like the no HS Component when they are just filler games. The boys DA players haven’t played HS in a long time. Now that this isn’t a US Soccer DA system and it’s just an MLS league, high school could become something players are interested in again. 
I guess we will see.


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## Sokrplayer75 (May 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> This is something that could work.  Make it a beach cleat too.  Can you imagine the showcases I could put on?  Teaching all the girls and boys how to become a world class surfer dude like Kelly, Booth, Buttons, Mark Richards, Shawn Thompson and my boy Parsons.  Socal Elite Surfing Academy, SESA brah!!!  If soccer can make world class players, I can make world class surfers.  My practice fields are free too,  HB pier 4 days a week, 10 months out of the year.  You get the point.......
> 
> View attachment 7255


Like it, you can recruit all the HB junior lifeguards kids while your at it, I'm sure they would rather surf and play some beach soccer. Shaved Ice within arms reach!

Oh man, I have an old Mike Parsons 6'1 Timmy Patterson...…..I'll donate it maybe


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## Ellejustus (May 20, 2020)

Sokrplayer75 said:


> Like it, you can recruit all the HB junior lifeguards kids while your at it, I'm sure they would rather surf and play some beach soccer. Shaved Ice within arms reach!
> 
> Oh man, I have an old Mike Parsons 6'1 Timmy Patterson...…..I'll donate it maybe


I bought his first Stewart off him for $100.  He was sponsored early by Bill.  When we were young surfers and surfing lowers, he would tell me I had potential if I would take the sport more serious.  My pride said it was too cool to surf in competitions back then and he went all in pro.  He worked his ass off and surfed the Cortez Banks and Mavricks.  I was a crazy too as a young grom but Parsons took it to a level that was too gnarly even for this surfer dude.  Toeing oneself into a 60 foot wave is insane.  Here he is at Cortez Bank off Dana Point.


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## Bubba (May 20, 2020)

I have a question, In girls ECNL is top league and cost is high most clubs are out in the Suburbs upper middle class league. Is ECNL boys going to be less expensive that girls ? Will it be mostly upper middle class due to cost and travel. I know of a top team that left ECNL club due to cost a couple of years ago. I have no dog in this fight my last son ages out this year.


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## jpeter (May 20, 2020)

Bubba said:


> I have a question, In girls ECNL is top league and cost is high most clubs are out in the Suburbs upper middle class league. Is ECNL boys going to be less expensive that girls ? Will it be mostly upper middle class due to cost and travel. I know of a top team that left ECNL club due to cost a couple of years ago. I have no dog in this fight my last son ages out this year.


Yes the number of training days, coaches, games, travel, field time, etc needed add up to more expensive vs a regular club team

Without the ussda kick in and travel scholarships the cost of club soccer can, has or might increase for most clubs moving.


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## vegasguy (May 21, 2020)

Bubba said:


> I have a question, In girls ECNL is top league and cost is high most clubs are out in the Suburbs upper middle class league. Is ECNL boys going to be less expensive that girls ? Will it be mostly upper middle class due to cost and travel. I know of a top team that left ECNL club due to cost a couple of years ago. I have no dog in this fight my last son ages out this year.



Club dues vary from club to club for sure.  I know SoCal clubs in general not just ECNL pay more than NV clubs in general.  Our club dues and coaching fees are the same for the teams in the same age groups.   The true expense does come in travel for NV clubs as 50% of our games are in other states.


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## MWN (May 21, 2020)

outside! said:


> If the MLS League teams in California ever use publicly funded facilities, an argument could be made they are in violation of AB2404 by not providing equal opportunities for girls.


I don't believe there is a prohibition against girls playing for an MLS League (youth team) .  At the International play level FIFA expressly prohibits women from playing on men's teams to accommodate the countries that are theocracies.  I'm not aware if the MLS would allow it at the over 18 level, but girls were allowed to be on boy's teams during the days of the DA.


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## outside! (May 21, 2020)

MWN said:


> I don't believe there is a prohibition against girls playing for an MLS League (youth team) .  At the International play level FIFA expressly prohibits women from playing on men's teams to accommodate the countries that are theocracies.  I'm not aware if the MLS would allow it at the over 18 level, but girls were allowed to be on boy's teams during the days of the DA.


That is quite different than "Equal Opportunities".


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## GoolRonaldo7 (May 23, 2020)

So do MLS Elite clubs know what age groups they will have? I have seen MANY clubs with the coaches and ages they will be a part of on their websites.


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## Husky13 (May 24, 2020)

It will be interesting to see if enough non/MLS clubs form U16 teams to have a viable U16 division.


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## Dargle (May 24, 2020)

GoolRonaldo7 said:


> So do MLS Elite clubs know what age groups they will have? I have seen MANY clubs with the coaches and ages they will be a part of on their websites.


I haven't seen every club report it, but according to @jpeter, I think, the clubs had the ability to include the age groups they wanted.  In fact, that may have been one of the attractive features for clubs like TFA, Santa Barbara, VC Fusion, Chula Vista, LAUFA, LA Surf, San Diego SC, etc that did not have the full complement of age groups in DA from the beginning and had to grovel/lobby USSDA to get the next age group each year.  They may not have wanted to do them all this year so they could remain competitive in the age groups they entered, but that was a complaint with the old US Soccer-run DA that none of the clubs that left had to worry about.


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## Timan (May 29, 2020)

Dargle said:


> If that attachment is accurate, it sounds like the non-MLS teams in U15 in Socal will get MORE games against MLS Academy teams than they did when they were in DA.  In DA at U14, they got 4 games against Galaxy and LAFC (two each) out of 28 games (assuming they played no MLS teams in the showcase).  In other words, they only got a little over 14% of their games against MLS teams.  Now they get 20% against MLS Academy teams according to the right side of the table in the attachment, or 8 out of 40.  The rest of their games are against former DA teams that are not affiliated with an MLS team, which is the same as they had in DA.
> 
> Even if we assume the former DA clubs in Boys ECNL negotiated a similar 80/20 split so they could mostly play the other former DA teams (and I don't know if that is true), that still leaves them playing 20% of their games against the pre-existing Boys ECNL teams, many of whom in Socal were not even competitive against CSL Gold teams and SCDSL Flt 1 Championship teams.
> 
> So, it seems like both groups of non-MLS former DA teams may continue to mostly play other non-MLS DA teams for the majority of their games, but the ones in the MLS league play stronger teams for the rest of their games and the one in Boys ECNL play weaker teams for the rest of their games.


80%-20% rule seems like the math trick MLS made.
Be careful, it doesn't say no MLS can play 20% with MLS, but MLS will play 20% with non MLS. If MLS has 30 games in a year, each MLS team plays 30x0.2=6 games with non-MLS. Total 30 MLSs x 6 = 180 MLS vs non MLS games will be scheduled. As there are 65 non MLS, each non MLS will play 180 / 65= 2.7 games with MLS. It will be less than 10%. Besides,  MLS always complain meaningless games against weaker non MLS, so probably good non MLS will play more than average of 2.7, as the result, weaker non MLS might not have chance to play with MLS.


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## Dargle (May 29, 2020)

Timan said:


> 80%-20% rule seems like the math trick MLS made.
> Be careful, it doesn't say no MLS can play 20% with MLS, but MLS will play 20% with non MLS. If MLS has 30 games in a year, each MLS team plays 30x0.2=6 games with non-MLS. Total 30 MLSs x 6 = 180 MLS vs non MLS games will be scheduled. As there are 65 non MLS, each non MLS will play 180 / 65= 2.7 games with MLS. It will be less than 10%. Besides,  MLS always complain meaningless games against weaker non MLS, so probably good non MLS will play more than average of 2.7, as the result, weaker non MLS might not have chance to play with MLS.


If you look at the right-hand side of the attachment (labeled Elite Youth Player Pathway), it says that teams in that pathway (i.e., non-MLS teams) at U15 would play 20% of their games v. MLS Pro Player Pathway Teams (i.e., MLS teams). So, it DOES actually say that non-MLS teams would play 20% against MLS teams.  I do think it's mathematically possible for both to be true (you assume 30 games rather than the 40 in the graphic and you assume all 65 clubs will field teams at U15, which some people on this board have reported is not the case for clubs that they know).  Still, it's also possible that this won't actually happen and non-MLS teams will only get 4 games, rather than 8 (30 MLS teams x 8 games v. non-MLS teams [40 games x .2] = 240 games total/65 non-MLS teams = 3.7, which would be about the same number of games they got against MLS teams last year in DA at U14 (not including tournaments).  I think most would probably be OK with that, rather than playing the extra games against some of the Boys ECNL teams leftover from last year, but it's reasonable to not oversell the MLS "exposure" you might get from this league.


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## Husky13 (May 29, 2020)

I think you are reading this MLS document too literally.  Do you really think the league organizer is going to get out his/her calculator to make sure each non-MLS team’s percentage of games vs MLS is at or above 20.00%?  How many soccer people do you know who are remotely good at basic math?  

Think of these as guidelines, not rules to be followed to the nth decimal point.


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## Dargle (May 29, 2020)

Timan said:


> Besides,  MLS always complain meaningless games against weaker non MLS, so probably good non MLS will play more than average of 2.7, as the result, weaker non MLS might not have chance to play with MLS.


I should add that you are absolutely correct that it is possible that the 20% number is an aggregate, rather than individual team, number, and that top non-MLS clubs could play more than 20% of their games v. MLS clubs and weaker teams would then play less than 20% (and less than 10%) to arrive at 20% as a percentage of the overal number of games played by non-MLS teams.  If they reached that number as an aggregate, though, I would bet that geography would matter too.  Some non-MLS teams don't have many MLS teams nearby and some MLS teams have no non-MLS teams nearby (the entire Pacific NW, for example).   Southern California teams are going to do better on that score simply because there are two MLS teams in the area and the MLS teams want to reduce travel costs.


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## OliveGroveHarrier (May 30, 2020)

I’m surely not the only parent trying to help their son decide between non-MLS and ECNL and time is running out. Seems a key difference is at the top - are you hoping to be noticed by an MLS club and go pro? Then play non-MLS, rock those 10-20% MLS Academy games, and get “mentioned” as a kid to watch. Are you hoping to play in college? Then do ECNL/NPL and get the showcases and organized infrastructure. I understand the travel and HS differences, because those are stated, but I’m trying to understand the unspoken side of it. Am I generally on point or way off? San Diego area. U16. Thank you. And yes, I do worry about him making the committment to non-MLS just to become a tackle dummy for MLS teams located far away and a minuscule shot at being noticed. Kinda leaning toward ECNL For the slightly higher chance at college (good student). I welcome any thoughts on 3rd options for post-HS play, like USL paths?


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## messy (May 30, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I'm starting a new "Elite Surfing Club." Basically, I teach you how to become an elite surfer.  More news to come if @Dominic is ok with me sharing this new concept that also has beach soccer tied to it?  I don;t want to break the rules like some do on here


Kooks can always share the ocean, but they can't share the soccer pitch. So your exclusivity idea doesn't work in surfing...but it does in soccer.


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## messy (May 30, 2020)

OliveGroveHarrier said:


> I’m surely not the only parent trying to help their son decide between non-MLS and ECNL and time is running out. Seems a key difference is at the top - are you hoping to be noticed by an MLS club and go pro? Then play non-MLS, rock those 10-20% MLS Academy games, and get “mentioned” as a kid to watch. Are you hoping to play in college? Then do ECNL/NPL and get the showcases and organized infrastructure. I understand the travel and HS differences, because those are stated, but I’m trying to understand the unspoken side of it. Am I generally on point or way off? San Diego area. U16. Thank you. And yes, I do worry about him making the committment to non-MLS just to become a tackle dummy for MLS teams located far away and a minuscule shot at being noticed. Kinda leaning toward ECNL For the slightly higher chance at college (good student). I welcome any thoughts on 3rd options for post-HS play, like USL paths?


I think that's a pretty good analysis. The kids i have known over the years (been observing as a club/academy dad for over 10 years) who have played Ivy League soccer or other excellent schools with programs (Tufts, Wash U, etc.) come out of the "next tier down" all the time. More well-rounded opportunities and you take the "go pro" (or maybe no Duke or Notre Dame or big D1 programs like that) out of the equation, but everything else stays on the table, as you suggest.


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## Ellejustus (May 30, 2020)

messy said:


> Kooks can always share the ocean, but they can't share the soccer pitch. So your exclusivity idea doesn't work in surfing...but it does in soccer.


It all depends where you surf Messy.  Many kooks at all the public beaches.....lol!!!  Soccer kooks? No comment but any kook is dangerous, regardless of their sport of choice.  I had a kook I played basketball against at Main Beach back in the 80s.  Crazy Dom was his name I think.  Body builder with long blond hair surfer "looking kook" and one crazy ass man who ruined games every week.  A true kook in every sense of the word.  Lets also understand the true meaning of the word kook in surfing Messy.

What is a kook in surfing?
A *kook* is a pre-beginner *surfer*, an aspiring wave rider, a nerd, or someone who tries - and fails - to mimic the *surfing* lifestyle. *Kooks* are careless, dangerous and can hurt true surfers, odd, exotic, and ridiculous. They disrespect the nobility of *surfing*.


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## Ellejustus (May 30, 2020)

To all the Kooks in all sports!!!


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## gkmom (May 30, 2020)

I am a little unclear on the amount of travel for the elite academy teams. I understand there will be games between San Diego, OC and LA teams. But what about more nation wide travel? Does anyone know the details on that? Specifically for U15 and up.


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## Dargle (May 30, 2020)

OliveGroveHarrier said:


> I’m surely not the only parent trying to help their son decide between non-MLS and ECNL and time is running out. Seems a key difference is at the top - are you hoping to be noticed by an MLS club and go pro? Then play non-MLS, rock those 10-20% MLS Academy games, and get “mentioned” as a kid to watch. Are you hoping to play in college? Then do ECNL/NPL and get the showcases and organized infrastructure. I understand the travel and HS differences, because those are stated, but I’m trying to understand the unspoken side of it. Am I generally on point or way off? San Diego area. U16. Thank you. And yes, I do worry about him making the committment to non-MLS just to become a tackle dummy for MLS teams located far away and a minuscule shot at being noticed. Kinda leaning toward ECNL For the slightly higher chance at college (good student). I welcome any thoughts on 3rd options for post-HS play, like USL paths?


You're definitely not the only one. We're in a similar position. Getting information about whether and to what extent the MLS league will have showcases or similar events that college scouts attend would be useful.  Although it's not the orientation of the league, D1 colleges are likely going to assume many of the best players are playing with the MLS academies and the vast majority of them are not actually going to get an offer to go pro.  So, it's hard to imagine colleges would ignore the league as long as there are some centralized opportunities to scout.  Then the question is whether non-MLS teams will have a chance to compete at those events.


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## GoolRonaldo7 (Jun 4, 2020)

Quick question, I have been hearing from parents from various clubs that the clubs will know what age groups they will have and be part of with this new MLS Elite league next week. Has anyone else heard something similar, or is it all speculations/rumors.


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## jpeter (Jun 4, 2020)

GoolRonaldo7 said:


> Quick question, I have been hearing from parents from various clubs that the clubs will know what age groups they will have and be part of with this new MLS Elite league next week. Has anyone else heard something similar, or is it all speculations/rumors.


No but sounds possible.

With the new agreement in place and tournament play in FL maybe MLS can have a season afterall? although losses have been estimated to over $1B even if they do.  Least we can watch on ESPN or whatever.
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/06/04/mls-clubs-set-return-full-team-training-after-moratorium-lifted


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## OliveGroveHarrier (Jun 15, 2020)

Husky13 said:


> It will be interesting to see if enough non/MLS clubs form U16 teams to have a viable U16 division.


I believe U16 is not an age group at the academy level at LAFC, RSL, or LAG, so I am not sure how a non MLS team gets 20 percent of their games against MLS teams unless they are flying a lot or playing against San Jose 9 times a year. If non MLS U16 doesn't play out of league it looks like a large burden for missing HS and not even getting MLS competiton. Maybe it needs to be viewed as an investment in the following year.


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## lafalafa (Jun 15, 2020)

OliveGroveHarrier said:


> I believe U16 is not an age group at the academy level at LAFC, RSL, or LAG, so I am not sure how a non MLS team gets 20 percent of their games against MLS teams unless they are flying a lot or playing against San Jose 9 times a year. If non MLS U16 doesn't play out of league it looks like a large burden for missing HS and not even getting MLS competiton. Maybe it needs to be viewed as an investment in the following year.


There is another local league besides MLS-EYDP that teams can play in that's all calendar year besides the combo u18/19.  NPLwest is offering u16 calendar year.


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