# Le Tour



## espola (Jul 9, 2019)

Why is Lance Armstrong being interviewed on the TdF live show?  And it's not about his truly unique expertise in avoiding detection, either.


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## espola (Jul 9, 2019)

toucan said:


> My guess is that he is being interviewed because he is arguably the greatest rider in the history of the event.  And yes, I know about his usage of PEDs, but don't see that as a knock against his knowledge of the sport or his ability to to comment upon it.  Nor, for that matter, do I see his usage of PEDs as immoral or unfair, especially in a sport where everybody else was using them as well.


You don't see that as a knock?  Shame on you.


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## espola (Jul 9, 2019)

toucan said:


> I don't feel shamed.  Lance Armstrong knows a lot about the Tour de France.  I accept him as an expert on the subject.


He knows more than anyone ever suspected.


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## pewpew (Jul 9, 2019)

What was your point in starting this thread? To knock Armstrong and piss on everyone that doesn’t agree with you? He took PEDs. He got caught. Yes it is cheating. I think we can all agree to that.  Doesn’t change the fact he’s an expert on the subject as a whole. Plenty of riders out there doping. Plenty of athletes as a whole. They know what they’re doing when they start to cycle and the pros and cons of it. I won’t judge anyone for using. They have to face their own demons at some point for deciding to use PEDs. 
Lots of baseball players out there end up having children with all sorts of problems. Ironic isn’t it? I doubt it’s because they all drank from the same water fountain at the stadium.
Do you no longer watch baseball out of protest for their use of PEDs? No need to answer. It was a rhetorical question.


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## espola (Jul 9, 2019)

pewpew said:


> What was your point in starting this thread? To knock Armstrong and piss on everyone that doesn’t agree with you? He took PEDs. He got caught. Yes it is cheating. I think we can all agree to that.  Doesn’t change the fact he’s an expert on the subject as a whole. Plenty of riders out there doping. Plenty of athletes as a whole. They know what they’re doing when they start to cycle and the pros and cons of it. I won’t judge anyone for using. They have to face their own demons at some point for deciding to use PEDs.
> Lots of baseball players out there end up having children with all sorts of problems. Ironic isn’t it? I doubt it’s because they all drank from the same water fountain at the stadium.
> Do you no longer watch baseball out of protest for their use of PEDs? No need to answer. It was a rhetorical question.


Is baseball still allowing the use of PEDs?  No need to answer.  It was a rhetorical question.


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## baldref (Jul 9, 2019)

i used to laugh at you. but you're so pathetic anymore, i feel sorry for you. no one can have an opinion other than yours or you fumble through attempts at degrading them. this is what is wrong with you and your kind. sad sad little man.


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## espola (Jul 9, 2019)

baldref said:


> i used to laugh at you. but you're so pathetic anymore, i feel sorry for you. no one can have an opinion other than yours or you fumble through attempts at degrading them. this is what is wrong with you and your kind. sad sad little man.


Do you feel better getting that off your chest?

Are you still a Lance Fan?


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## focused1 (Jul 9, 2019)

NBCSN just aired a lengthy new interview with Lance that was released today, I think. Phil and Bob had him on today because the network probably forced it on them...promotion for the interview which aired right after the coverage of the stage ended. Don't expect it'll be an everyday thing...


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## Speed (Jul 16, 2019)

If you knew anything about cycling you would know that lance is not the first, nor the last, to dope in the tour. But this is a soccer forum so no need to discuss it. That should be on the socal cycling forum


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## Multi Sport (Jul 16, 2019)

Speed said:


> If you knew anything about cycling you would know that lance is not the first, nor the last, to dope in the tour. But this is a soccer forum so no need to discuss it. That should be on the socal cycling forum


E knows nothing about cycling.... he'll prove it in his next post.


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## outside! (Jul 17, 2019)

While it is true that a lot of the riders in the Tour (and a lot of athletes in general) have used PED's, it is the fact that Lance was such an asshole to so many people that bothers me. They should have interviewed Greg Lemond instead.


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## espola (Jul 18, 2019)

I had a discussion with my Doctor during my physical exam last week about Le Tour, when he asked why I was getting up so early in the morning.  I told him it wouldn't really be interesting until they got into the mountains.  So today I have three different tabs open -- "news", "stageprofile", and "map".


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## outside! (Jul 18, 2019)

I record all the live coverage. We will watch it tonight after our night ride.


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## azsnowrider (Jul 18, 2019)

outside! said:


> While it is true that a lot of the riders in the Tour (and a lot of athletes in general) have used PED's, it is the fact that Lance was such an asshole to so many people that bothers me. They should have interviewed Greg Lemond instead.


Lemond is just as much of a jerk as well, If they interviewed him he would spend the whole time bashing on Lance. Lemond still cant get over Lance wining more TOF's so he did everything he could to help bring the guy down. But the reality in cycling is all those guys doped, you should see the amateur ranks and how many suddenly develop asthma so they can get a TUE.   Bringing Lance in is how they ease him back into the cycling world, and If Sherwin was still alive this would never have happened.


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## Multi Sport (Jul 18, 2019)

outside! said:


> I record all the live coverage. We will watch it tonight after our night ride.


Road or Mtn?


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## Multi Sport (Jul 18, 2019)

azsnowrider said:


> Lemond is just as much of a jerk as well, If they interviewed him he would spend the whole time bashing on Lance. Lemond still cant get over Lance wining more TOF's so he did everything he could to help bring the guy down. But the reality in cycling is all those guys doped, you should see the amateur ranks and how many suddenly develop asthma so they can get a TUE.   Bringing Lance in is how they ease him back into the cycling world, and If Sherwin was still alive this would never have happened.


Paul was great and I agree he would not have agreed to have Lance on. I don't think Greg is as bitter against Lance as he is about his business ventures. His bike brand never really took off ( kinda like Tomacs) and the ill will towards LA is probably a lot to do with Lances success off the bike.  

Before Floyd was a stripped TDF Champion he was a Jr Mtn Bike Champion. He was a wrench for my first 24 hour race. Dude could flat out shred on the dirt but there is not enough money in it hence the move to road.


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## azsnowrider (Jul 18, 2019)

Multi Sport said:


> Paul was great and I agree he would not have agreed to have Lance on. I don't think Greg is as bitter against Lance as he is about his business ventures. His bike brand never really took off ( kinda like Tomacs) and the ill will towards LA is probably a lot to do with Lances success off the bike.
> 
> Before Floyd was a stripped TDF Champion he was a Jr Mtn Bike Champion. He was a wrench for my first 24 hour race. Dude could flat out shred on the dirt but there is not enough money in it hence the move to road.


If I remember right Trek had a lot to do with the failure of his bikes as well, which of course was in bed with Lance.  Floyd used to come race the Cactus Cup here in AZ in the late 90's, yes the dude was insanely fast and seemed like a genuinely nice guy. It's a bit ironic now the guy was telling the truth all along and Lance and company shut him down pretty much. He got his pay back though LOL.


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## outside! (Jul 18, 2019)

Multi Sport said:


> Road or Mtn?


MTB of course. You can wreck and lay on the ground as long as you want without getting run over by a bus. Riding again tonight, but hope to stay rubber side down.


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## outside! (Jul 18, 2019)

azsnowrider said:


> Lemond is just as much of a jerk as well, If they interviewed him he would spend the whole time bashing on Lance. Lemond still cant get over Lance wining more TOF's so he did everything he could to help bring the guy down. But the reality in cycling is all those guys doped, you should see the amateur ranks and how many suddenly develop asthma so they can get a TUE.   Bringing Lance in is how they ease him back into the cycling world, and If Sherwin was still alive this would never have happened.


I would bet Betsy Andreu would rate Armstrong as much more of a jerk than Lemond. I personally do not want to see Lance involved in cycling again.


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## azsnowrider (Jul 18, 2019)

outside! said:


> I would bet Betsy Andreu would rate Armstrong as much more of a jerk than Lemond. I personally do not want to see Lance involved in cycling again.


I would have to agree on Betsy, the one lady Lance is terrified of. I am not a fan of him being interviewed either, it's painful to watch but so is Horner. More Jens Voight I say.


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## outside! (Jul 19, 2019)

azsnowrider said:


> I would have to agree on Betsy, the one lady Lance is terrified of. I am not a fan of him being interviewed either, it's painful to watch but so is Horner. More Jens Voight I say.


Jens Voight is great and should be feature more, but Chris Horner is actually growing on me. He explains tactics very well and is not afraid to call riders out for mistakes.


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## MacDre (Jul 19, 2019)

I don’t know much about cycling or Lance.  I think it’s unfair however that one of my daughters besties fathers accomplishments are questioned now because he was on the US National team and Tour de France with Lance.

This guy is one of the nicest guys I’ve ever met. I find it hard to believe that he doped.  The football players that I know that doped all have serious mood swings.


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## espola (Jul 19, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I don’t know much about cycling or Lance.  I think it’s unfair however that one of my daughters besties fathers accomplishments are questioned now because he was on the US National team and Tour de France with Lance.
> 
> This guy is one of the nicest guys I’ve ever met. I find it hard to believe that he doped.  The football players that I know that doped all have serious mood swings.


The cyclists who doped had to keep the levels of contamination down where hey could just barely not be detected, unlike professional football and baseball players who did it as a part of their daily diet.  Lance was the master of the just-not-detectable doping.


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## MacDre (Jul 19, 2019)

So, how did Lance get caught?  I don’t think my daughters friends dad Fast Freddie Rodríguez was ever caught.  I think he’s just guilty by association.


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## espola (Jul 19, 2019)

MacDre said:


> So, how did Lance get caught?  I don’t think my daughters friends dad Fast Freddie Rodríguez was ever caught.  I think he’s just guilty by association.


As I recall it, former teammates told stories, and then other evidence that had been originally judged to be inconclusive were found to support the stories.  I was a full-on Lance supporter at least until his comeback appearance in the Amgen Tour of California (2009, I think) when my daughter and I went to watch the finish in Escondido.  The setting was not friendly to the casual viewer - the last few blocks were bracketed by VIP and high-value party zones - it's a much better TV show.  Because of that day, we came away with a little souvenir hand fan marked "Lance fan", which I found the last time I sorted out my box of old junk.


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## azsnowrider (Jul 19, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I think he’s just guilty by association.


This is the problem with cycling, doping was so rampant and so many people were getting caught it was as if everyone was doing it. A lot of Lances's teammates testified against him and others to get themselves out of trouble, he was the big fish they wanted. A lot of these guys on the teams also felt pressured to get on the "program" also because they needed results, they needed to keep there spots on the teams and doping gave them that advantage. Cycling at the World tour level those guys are probably the most tested athletes in any sport and they can do spot tests at any time.  It's funny I raced for a long time in the amateur ranks, every once in a while USA cycling would show up and randomly test people. People would get popped for something, and this is the Amateur ranks. Keep in mind all we were racing for is maybe some gift cards or bragging rights, if it was for money it was barely enough to cover race fees. But, guys would still dope to just win so its given the sport a stigma.


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## espola (Jul 19, 2019)

azsnowrider said:


> This is the problem with cycling, doping was so rampant and so many people were getting caught it was as if everyone was doing it. A lot of Lances's teammates testified against him and others to get themselves out of trouble, he was the big fish they wanted. A lot of these guys on the teams also felt pressured to get on the "program" also because they needed results, they needed to keep there spots on the teams and doping gave them that advantage. Cycling at the World tour level those guys are probably the most tested athletes in any sport and they can do spot tests at any time.  It's funny I raced for a long time in the amateur ranks, every once in a while USA cycling would show up and randomly test people. People would get popped for something, and this is the Amateur ranks. Keep in mind all we were racing for is maybe some gift cards or bragging rights, if it was for money it was barely enough to cover race fees. But, guys would still dope to just win so its given the sport a stigma.


In the amateur ranks, people hope to show they have the ability (either racing or doping - whichever ability is important) to make it to the pros.

One of our kids' friends, who was the shortest player one year on one of their teams, was taken by his parents to a doctor who administered regular doses of human growth hormone.  That is completely acceptable from a legal, medical, or ethical standpoint, but it might cause an issue in organized sports with strict doping rules and the means to enforce them. He grew "up" to be a linebacker on his high school football team.  The last time I saw him (and he had to introduce himself because I didn't recognize him) he was running laps on a high school track trying to get in shape for a walk-on tryout at the small college he was attending.  He was happy to be bigger and he was complaining that his hips were giving him problems that his doctor had told him were probably a side-effect of the treatments.


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## MacDre (Jul 19, 2019)

azsnowrider said:


> This is the problem with cycling, doping was so rampant and so many people were getting caught it was as if everyone was doing it. A lot of Lances's teammates testified against him and others to get themselves out of trouble, he was the big fish they wanted. A lot of these guys on the teams also felt pressured to get on the "program" also because they needed results, they needed to keep there spots on the teams and doping gave them that advantage. Cycling at the World tour level those guys are probably the most tested athletes in any sport and they can do spot tests at any time.  It's funny I raced for a long time in the amateur ranks, every once in a while USA cycling would show up and randomly test people. People would get popped for something, and this is the Amateur ranks. Keep in mind all we were racing for is maybe some gift cards or bragging rights, if it was for money it was barely enough to cover race fees. But, guys would still dope to just win so its given the sport a stigma.


Yeah and I can see how the more money that’s at stake the more people are gonna dope.  Freddie made a lot of money and I’m sure Lance made more.  I had no idea cycling paid so well at any level.


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## Multi Sport (Jul 19, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Yeah and I can see how the more money that’s at stake the more people are gonna dope.  Freddie made a lot of money and I’m sure Lance made more.  I had no idea cycling paid so well at any level.


Only at the top of top. Trying to work your way up through the junior ranks and then the pro ranks is not very profitable.


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## Multi Sport (Jul 19, 2019)

azsnowrider said:


> This is the problem with cycling, doping was so rampant and so many people were getting caught it was as if everyone was doing it. A lot of Lances's teammates testified against him and others to get themselves out of trouble, he was the big fish they wanted. A lot of these guys on the teams also felt pressured to get on the "program" also because they needed results, they needed to keep there spots on the teams and doping gave them that advantage. Cycling at the World tour level those guys are probably the most tested athletes in any sport and they can do spot tests at any time.  It's funny I raced for a long time in the amateur ranks, every once in a while USA cycling would show up and randomly test people. People would get popped for something, and this is the Amateur ranks. Keep in mind all we were racing for is maybe some gift cards or bragging rights, if it was for money it was barely enough to cover race fees. But, guys would still dope to just win so its given the sport a stigma.


I've seen guys want to throw down in the middle of a race. The guy who was at the center of it was taking a Testosterone booster... 

Some racers are fortunate enough to land a bike sponsor and get a 7k bike handed to them, some get race fees paid others might get more but you're not gonna pay the bills...


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## espola (Jul 20, 2019)

Today's race TV show included many ads for Hyland's Leg Cramps.  Since we have a family history of dealing with leg cramps, I looked it up.

It's homeopathic.

Never mind.


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## Zdrone (Jul 20, 2019)

I’m sure it’s been mentioned here before and most have probably seen it but since cycling is being discussed, i highly recommend watching the documentary Icarus on Netflix.
Original scope is doping in cycling but it goes sideways about a third of the way through.  Seriously sideways


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## espola (Jul 21, 2019)

I had so many tabs open this morning that it crashed my computer.  By the time it restarted, today's race was over.


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## outside! (Jul 22, 2019)

espola said:


> Today's race TV show included many ads for Hyland's Leg Cramps.  Since we have a family history of dealing with leg cramps, I looked it up.
> 
> It's homeopathic.
> 
> Never mind.


Hyland's is the same company who's homeopathic teething medicine for toddlers was recalled for having potentially toxic levels of belladonna. That's some good quality control there!
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/hylands-homeopathic-teething-tablets-questions-and-answers


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## espola (Jul 22, 2019)

outside! said:


> Hyland's is the same company who's homeopathic teething medicine for toddlers was recalled for having potentially toxic levels of belladonna. That's some good quality control there!
> https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/hylands-homeopathic-teething-tablets-questions-and-answers


I'm surprised that a homeopathic medicine would have detectable levels of anything.  Isn't that the whole point of homeopathy?


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## Multi Sport (Jul 26, 2019)

I think E must have been napping and missed stage 19... well at least the part they completed.


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## espola (Jul 26, 2019)

Multi Sport said:


> I think E must have been napping and missed stage 19... well at least the part they completed.


Why would you think that?

My TV flipped over to Channel 41 ar 4:30 AM as programmed.  In a way, I was hoping they would try to ride through the hail, until I saw them trying to drain the flooding from the road.  That was too much.


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## Multi Sport (Jul 26, 2019)

espola said:


> Why would you think that?
> 
> My TV flipped over to Channel 41 ar 4:30 AM as programmed.  In a way, I was hoping they would try to ride through the hail, until I saw them trying to drain the flooding from the road.  That was too much.


Because if you had seen it live you would have jumped on the forum to post about first thing in the morning ...


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## espola (Jul 26, 2019)

Multi Sport said:


> Because if you had seen it live you would have jumped on the forum to post about first thing in the morning ...


Is that something more you know about me that I don't?


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## Multi Sport (Jul 26, 2019)

espola said:


> Is that something more you know about me that I don't?


Absolutely!


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## espola (Jul 28, 2019)

Yesterday's run was shortened so much that they are showing it again today.


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