# High School Soccer



## SOCCERMINION (Aug 17, 2016)

I really don't get all the negative banter about HS soccer. For all the countless hours and hardwork of club training and highly competative games my daugher has attended, where is the harm in her playing for fun on a less competative team. My DD's abiliy to now play the sport she loves for her high school is one of the biggest rewards my DD is looking forward to. How could I not support my DD when she wants to show her abilities on the pitch at her HS and play with friends she grew up with. Sure my Daughter loves playing at Surf Cup with her club team and playing some of the best teams in the country. But IMHO I believe its her love of the game that is nurtured by playing with her friends that is most important. Isn't there still room for her to play just for her love of the game. For me I'm still glad its still up to her regaurdless of what any coach may say. It seams dumb to me that GDA would try to take any choice like that away and try to dictate whats best for your child.  Even if your DD was the Next Mallary Pugh, and she wanted to play for her HS. I'd say,"let her play".


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## younothat (Aug 17, 2016)

SOCCERMINION said:


> I really don't get all the negative banter about HS soccer. For all the countless hours and hardwork of club training and highly competative games my daugher has attended, where is the harm in her playing for fun on a less competative team. My DD's abiliy to now play the sport she loves for her high school is one of the biggest rewards my DD is looking forward to. How could I not support my DD when she wants to show her abilities on the pitch at her HS and play with friends she grew up with. Sure my Daughter loves playing at Surf Cup with her club team and playing some of the best teams in the country. But IMHO I believe its her love of the game that is nurtured by playing with her friends that is most important. Isn't there still room for her to play just for her love of the game. For me I'm still glad its still up to her regaurdless of what any coach may say. It seams dumb to me that GDA would try to take any choice like that away and try to dictate whats best for your child.  Even if your DD was the Next Mallary Pugh, and she wanted to play for her HS. I'd say,"let her play".


Each individual is different, my daughter couldn't wait to represent her HS and played her freshmen and sophomore years.   Really enjoyed the experience, playoff run last year, etc

The competitive gap between most HS teams and say ENCL is pretty big so eventually she decided to focus on ENCL and getting ready for college rather than continue to play HS.  She is still friends with almost all the HS players and supports them when she can at games and whatnot.

One thing I can tell you for sure there is a bigger risk for injury in HS games due to techniques, they way the game is played, and officiating to a limited intent.  Some think the risk outweighs the reward.  I don't think that's the case but your player has to find their own way, what suites them the best?

GDA is a different story, with the ages grouping fewer players will be in that league and it won't start until 2018. There are a bunch of other restrictions on who, when, and where you play, have to sign the academy wavier.  No HS soccer for example.


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## GKDad65 (Aug 17, 2016)

Play High School soccer enjoy yourself this opportunity only comes by a few times while you're young and then it's over.


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## SoccerDad77 (Aug 17, 2016)

GKDad65 said:


> Play High School soccer enjoy yourself this opportunity only comes by a few times while you're young and then it's over.


So does getting a college scholarship/playing college soccer... No offense, but if your child is really serious about their sport and wants to be the best player they can be, taking a 3-month vacation every year for 4 straight years isn't the way to go... Fields, level of competition, level/amount of training are all far inferior to playing club competitively year round... Like others say, it's a choice every player makes individually, but you can't have it both ways.


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## pulguita (Aug 17, 2016)

SoccerDad77 said:


> So does getting a college scholarship/playing college soccer... No offense, but if your child is really serious about their sport and wants to be the best player they can be, taking a 3-month vacation every year for 4 straight years isn't the way to go... Fields, level of competition, level/amount of training are all far inferior to playing club competitively year round... Like others say, it's a choice every player makes individually, but you can't have it both ways.


I guess I am a little salty now that the club career is over but I just can't help myself.  I know a kid that has trained or played 6 days a week since she was 11.  She has watched 2-3 professional soccer games every week (Barca of course - live or taped).  She's won 3 ODP National Championships, She's been to 2 State Cup Finals and a National Cup Final and lost.  She's won 3 National Cups in a Row.  She has been to the last 3 consecutive National Championships.  Won one, lost one in the finals and lost in pool play.  She has received numerous personal awards Academic and Athletic.  She received the first ever at her high school both Scholar Athlete and Athlete of the Year.  She was up for County Athlete of the Year but lost to another outstanding lady that has a similar story of setbacks and achievements and will be her crosstown rival in the Pac 12 this year.  Oh yeah she has played 4 years Varsity soccer won a total of 8 games her first three years versus a club team that didn't lose a game for 18 months in their National Championship year.  Her senior year they won league, lost in the CIF semis and State Semis had the time of their lives.  She is also in the U18 NT pool.  Please tell me that she didn't have it both ways.  She had it in spades and so have others.  Did I mention she has had a substantial scholarship in her hands since April of her sophomore year and is currently having a blast in sunny LA.


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## SoccerDad77 (Aug 18, 2016)

pulguita said:


> I guess I am a little salty now that the club career is over but I just can't help myself.  I know a kid that has trained or played 6 days a week since she was 11.  She has watched 2-3 professional soccer games every week (Barca of course - live or taped).  She's won 3 ODP National Championships, She's been to 2 State Cup Finals and a National Cup Final and lost.  She's won 3 National Cups in a Row.  She has been to the last 3 consecutive National Championships.  Won one, lost one in the finals and lost in pool play.  She has received numerous personal awards Academic and Athletic.  She received the first ever at her high school both Scholar Athlete and Athlete of the Year.  She was up for County Athlete of the Year but lost to another outstanding lady that has a similar story of setbacks and achievements and will be her crosstown rival in the Pac 12 this year.  Oh yeah she has played 4 years Varsity soccer won a total of 8 games her first three years versus a club team that didn't lose a game for 18 months in their National Championship year.  Her senior year they won league, lost in the CIF semis and State Semis had the time of their lives.  She is also in the U18 NT pool.  Please tell me that she didn't have it both ways.  She had it in spades and so have others.  Did I mention she has had a substantial scholarship in her hands since April of her sophomore year and is currently having a blast in sunny LA.


Imagine how good of a player she could have been if she didn't spend 12 months of her youth career playing bad soccer?... Obviously US soccer imagines this, as they changed the rules for the best players.


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## SOCCERMINION (Aug 18, 2016)

SoccerDad77 said:


> Imagine how good of a player she could have been if she didn't spend 12 months of her youth career playing bad soccer?... Obviously US soccer imagines this, as they changed the rules for the best players.


Imagine where she would be if she was homeschooled since she was 9 so she could spend 24/7 training. Imagine if her parents controlled her diet since she was 9 and she did weight training, speed training and had private coaching daily.  Imaging if she spent every weekend of her teenage years traveling and playing on youth national teams!!!!!!! What would happen, how good would she be?,....I believe it is called the Marinovich effect.


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## espola (Aug 18, 2016)

SOCCERMINION said:


> Imagine where she would be if she was homeschooled since she was 9 so she could spend 24/7 training. Imagine if her parents controlled her diet since she was 9 and she did weight training, speed training and had private coaching daily.  Imaging if she spent every weekend of her teenage years traveling and playing on youth national teams!!!!!!! What would happen, how good would she be?,....I believe it is called the Marinovich effect.


Don't forget that it is legal for a doctor to administer human growth hormone to any child with parental permission, and medically ethical as long as it causes no harm to the child.  The rule of thumb I heard years ago was to continue treatments until your child reached the size you desired.


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## bababooey (Aug 18, 2016)

I think Minion's OP hit the nail on the head here. My dd will be a freshman next year, so we have not experienced HS soccer, but she is very excited to tryout for the HS team and hopefully play all four years. I think it is well known that HS soccer is less technical than club soccer, but my dd just wants to play when possible. I am excited to see her play against older girls to see how she handles that adversity.

Also, thank you to Pulguita for his post.


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## MakeAPlay (Aug 18, 2016)

pulguita said:


> I guess I am a little salty now that the club career is over but I just can't help myself.  I know a kid that has trained or played 6 days a week since she was 11.  She has watched 2-3 professional soccer games every week (Barca of course - live or taped).  She's won 3 ODP National Championships, She's been to 2 State Cup Finals and a National Cup Final and lost.  She's won 3 National Cups in a Row.  She has been to the last 3 consecutive National Championships.  Won one, lost one in the finals and lost in pool play.  She has received numerous personal awards Academic and Athletic.  She received the first ever at her high school both Scholar Athlete and Athlete of the Year.  She was up for County Athlete of the Year but lost to another outstanding lady that has a similar story of setbacks and achievements and will be her crosstown rival in the Pac 12 this year.  Oh yeah she has played 4 years Varsity soccer won a total of 8 games her first three years versus a club team that didn't lose a game for 18 months in their National Championship year.  Her senior year they won league, lost in the CIF semis and State Semis had the time of their lives.  She is also in the U18 NT pool.  Please tell me that she didn't have it both ways.  She had it in spades and so have others.  Did I mention she has had a substantial scholarship in her hands since April of her sophomore year and is currently having a blast in sunny LA.


She had one hell of a career and it was fun to watch it unfold.  I agree you can have it both and my player would never have given up high school soccer either and probably had the most fun playing for her high school.  Your player isn't a normal player by the way.  She has been so focused since she was 9 and honestly her path has been very unconventional (and amazing) due to this focus.

Good job dad!!


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## MakeAPlay (Aug 18, 2016)

SoccerDad77 said:


> Imagine how good of a player she could have been if she didn't spend 12 months of her youth career playing bad soccer?... Obviously US soccer imagines this, as they changed the rules for the best players.


Umm we are talking about girls right?  With all due respect girls aren't boys and even the best need a break.  I seem to remember his player being on many teams that were below her caliber but helped make her a better player.  She carried her high school team for the first 3 years and honestly I think it probably taught her almost as much as her being on all of those ODP national championship teams.  US soccer is wrong on this one.  Not the first time.

Just so you know I hate high school soccer.  I just know that most of the girls love it.


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## Glen (Aug 18, 2016)

Some people are wealthy enough to take on the risk of injury, others are not.  In 20 years, a kid won't give a hoot about their HS soccer glory.  They will care about their student loans.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/09/for-college-scholarship-athletes-injury-can-spell-financial-disaster/

Maybe the risk is way overblown.  Four years of HS soccer must have given everyone posting a pretty good perspective on the risk of injury.  Were there no serious injuries on your teams over those four years?  

I don't really buy the argument that my DD needs it for her popularity at school.  That falls pretty low on the priority list.


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## zebrafish (Aug 18, 2016)

Having played HS soccer, HS tennis on a state championship team, and college tennis on a nationally-ranked team (but not for a scholarship...), I can say 20+ years later that I have fond memories of the camaraderie of both sports, even though I was better at tennis. I don't have better memories of the sport I was "better" at. What I have fond memories about is the experiences as a team and with my friends/teammates. I certainly remember the wins, but they are less important.

I can also say that I ended up enjoying soccer more and for a longer period (I played soccer for 15 years after college graduation) than tennis (I haven't played a serious game since my last college match).

I'd argue that the best course of action is to take into account what your child wants to do. If your child feels like they "have" to avoid HS soccer and they feel pressure to get a scholarship, then that is unfortunate, because I'd worry that that will impact the enjoyment factor. Yes, I had student loans, but I paid them off... Eventually.


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## MakeAPlay (Aug 18, 2016)

Glen said:


> Some people are wealthy enough to take on the risk of injury, others are not.  In 20 years, a kid won't give a hoot about their HS soccer glory.  They will care about their student loans.
> 
> http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/09/for-college-scholarship-athletes-injury-can-spell-financial-disaster/
> 
> ...


Not one serious injury on her team in 4 years.  She played 4 years and only had turf burn.  Injuries are a part of sports.  I don't know one successful athlete that plays scared.  Also if she is just playing for the scholarship then she either won't get one or will quit when it gets tough in college.  And it will get tough.


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## Glen (Aug 18, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> Not one serious injury on her team in 4 years.  She played 4 years and only had turf burn.  Injuries are a part of sports.  I don't know one successful athlete that plays scared.  Also if she is just playing for the scholarship then she either won't get one or will quit when it gets tough in college.  And it will get tough.


Have you heard of the NBA?  They have some pretty successful athletes.  The very best NBA players declined to play in Rio at the Olympics.  Most of them declined because they were concerned about injuries.  Now you know some successful athletes that "play scared" by calculating risk vs. reward.  Or, consider LeBron James and Blake Griffin quitting high school football (even though they were unbelievable) because they were concerned about injury.  Two more successful athletes that apparently played scared.

The majority of college football and basketball players need the scholarship.  They don't quit.  You all must have some deep pocket books, which is an enviable luxury.  To better your circumstances in this country, the less fortunate have to make additional sacrifices to get ahead.  This is no different.

zebrafish - Where did you play in college?  I don't know how long ago you really played, but HS tennis is a far worse quality than HS soccer.  And no serious tennis player plays two sports by the time they reach high school.  With few exceptions, dual sports usually ends for tennis players by middle school.  If they play HS tennis, they don't even go to HS practice.


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## MakeAPlay (Aug 18, 2016)

Glen said:


> Have you heard of the NBA?  They have some pretty successful athletes.  The very best NBA players declined to play in Rio at the Olympics.  Most of them declined because they were concerned about injuries.  Now you know some successful athletes that "play scared" by calculating risk vs. reward.  Or, consider LeBron James and Blake Griffin quitting high school football (even though they were unbelievable) because they were concerned about injury.  Two more successful athletes that apparently played scared.
> 
> The majority of college football and basketball players need the scholarship.  They don't quit.  You all must have some deep pocket books, which is an enviable luxury.  To better your circumstances in this country, the less fortunate have to make additional sacrifices to get ahead.  This is no different.
> 
> zebrafish - Where did you play in college?  I don't know how long ago you really played, but HS tennis is a far worse quality than HS soccer.  And no serious tennis player plays two sports by the time they reach high school.  With few exceptions, dual sports usually ends for tennis players by middle school.  If they play HS tennis, they don't even go to HS practice.



So Kevin Durant isn't one of the 2 best basketball players on the planet?  I knew a college football player who's parents lived next door to Will Smith before he married Jada.  Lebron didn't play because of the long playoff series.  I never heard of him saying that he didn't play because of a fear of injury.  He was national player of the year as a high school junior and would have been the first pick in the draft that year if it was allowed.  If he was afraid of injury why did he come back and play another year of high school basketball and risk it?  I know that he had a Lloyd's of London policy that would have paid 8 figures had he gotten hurt permanently.  Speculation is fine.  Making stuff up isn't.


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## zebrafish (Aug 18, 2016)

Glen said:


> zebrafish - Where did you play in college?  I don't know how long ago you really played, but HS tennis is a far worse quality than HS soccer.  And no serious tennis player plays two sports by the time they reach high school.  With few exceptions, dual sports usually ends for tennis players by middle school.  If they play HS tennis, they don't even go to HS practice.


I'll freely admit I don't have a kid old enough to play HS sports yet, so I could be completely clueless.

Maybe I'm just old-- certainly things may have changed in terms of athletic participation in HS sports. But I think it depends on the school and the sport.

I didn't grow up in SoCal, and I didn't go to public school (insert deep pockets dig here). There were awful HS tennis teams and very good ones both public and private. But kids from my HS tennis team played varsity tennis at quality D1 schools-- Harvard, Notre Dame, Kansas, Brown. And you're probably right-- those kids just played one sport and I played 2-- so it probably cost me achievement in a single sport. I went to a D3 college that was top 10 nationally ranked in tennis where I knew I'd play the entire time, and I did. I had to temporarily give up soccer at that point. If HS sports are now as bad as people describe, that is truly sad.


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## Glen (Aug 18, 2016)

Don't be silly.  You made a foolish statement and are trying to walk it back with sarcasm.

You are totally wrong about LeBron.  He broke his wrist in AAU during the summer.  That's why he didn't play football his senior year - he could have played the season even with the wrist, but didn't think it was a good idea.  Don't know what a long playoff series comes into play.   Again, all he was doing was avoiding unnecessary risk.  Geez - you even note his insurance policy, which he got after he quit football.  He used that to protect him for basketball his senior year - not football.  Avoiding risk (or playing scared to use your negative spin) was exactly what he was doing.  We all do it.  You are misusing the term "playing scared" to cut down people's reasonable opinions.  "Playing scared" doesn't apply to an off the field/court decision - you aren't playing.  

LeBron and Curry are the best players in the world.  Durant hasn't been at their level for a few years. . . since he got injured.  That's not even really debatable.  At any rate, you duck the fact that very successful athletes skipped the Olympics - the freakin' Olympics - to avoid injury.  It makes your statement look foolish.


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## MakeAPlay (Aug 18, 2016)

Glen said:


> Don't be silly.  You made a foolish statement and are trying to walk it back with sarcasm.
> 
> You are totally wrong about LeBron.  He broke his wrist in AAU during the summer.  That's why he didn't play football his senior year - he could have played the season even with the wrist, but didn't think it was a good idea.  Don't know what a long playoff series comes into play.   Again, all he was doing was avoiding unnecessary risk.  Geez - you even note his insurance policy, which he got after he quit football.  He used that to protect him for basketball his senior year - not football.  Avoiding risk (or playing scared to use your negative spin) was exactly what he was doing.  We all do it.  You are misusing the term "playing scared" to cut down people's reasonable opinions.  "Playing scared" doesn't apply to an off the field/court decision - you aren't playing.
> 
> LeBron and Curry are the best players in the world.  Durant hasn't been at their level for a few years. . . since he got injured.  That's not even really debatable.  At any rate, you duck the fact that very successful athletes skipped the Olympics - the freakin' Olympics - to avoid injury.  It makes your statement look foolish.



Talking about foolish you must having reading comprehension issues.  I was talking about Lebron playing basketball as a HS senior and skipping THIS Olympics!

You have no idea about who is the best players in the NBA if you put Curry over Durant.  Durant is a mismatch for any player!


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## Glen (Aug 18, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> You have no idea about who is the best players in the NBA if you put Curry over Durant.  Durant is a mismatch for any player!


Last year, Curry was the first ever unanimous MVP - unanimous.


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## SoccerLife12 (Aug 18, 2016)

SoccerDad77 said:


> Imagine how good of a player she could have been if she didn't spend 12 months of her youth career playing bad soccer?... Obviously US soccer imagines this, as they changed the rules for the best players.


I know of a girl who plays on an ECNL team; has been home-schooled most, if not all of her life;  trains a ridiculous amount of hours a day since she was little;   is really pretty good, but only played on an ODP team a few years;  and never made a NT roster.  I'm not sure,  but don't think she every played high school. So with all that training,  what did she get over girls that did play high school?  I've  seen girls who played at Cathedral, Torrey Pines, Westview, and a few other schools who are on youth national teams who,  after playing with their HS for 4 years are still national team worthy. It just depends on the kid.


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## Lion Eyes (Aug 19, 2016)

High School soccer is college prep.
Not because of skill level, but because of the physicality of the game.
Just like high school, in college, you will at times have (sometimes large) gaps in skills. Many make up for lesser skills with physical play.
The physical game is the biggest adjustment most will have going from club & high school to the college level.
Good luck to all.
Play good soccer!


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## Zoro (Aug 19, 2016)

Mine did HS two years.  Freshman on the field, sophomore in goal.  The HS coaching was such that she was not allowed to do her GK stuff (set wall, position defenders) and she instead got into student government 11, 12th.   She was amazed at all the things outside of soccer.  That changed her from "soccer is my life", to soccer is something to do and use it for college.  I lost a few soccer bragging rights that got replaced by career success bragging rights.  
HS soccer is fun, but so are other things.


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## Zerodenero (Aug 19, 2016)

SOCCERMINION said:


> Imagine where she would be if she was homeschooled since she was 9 so she could spend 24/7 training. Imagine if her parents controlled her diet since she was 9 and she did weight training, speed training and had private coaching daily.  Imaging if she spent every weekend of her teenage years traveling and playing on youth national teams!!!!!!! What would happen, how good would she be?,....I believe it is called the Marinovich effect.


Soccermin - Marinovich....great example!

S-pop77 - if you don't know the marinovich story....highly suggest u look it up


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## Zoro (Aug 19, 2016)

Well I am a fan of Marv and his training methods, that are now quite copied.  I think what happened with Todd was an example of a kid gone wrong, who now, while much was lost is not so wrong anymore.

We did and do put everything into our kids, but a bit more balanced (not just a sport).  I did Marv X2 - two kids.  I don't see an issue with it.  Gives me something to do.


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## Zerodenero (Aug 19, 2016)

Zoro said:


> Well I am a fan of Marv and his training methods, that are now quite copied.  I think what happened with Todd was an example of a kid gone wrong, who now, while much was lost is not so wrong anymore.
> 
> We did and do put everything into our kids, but a bit more balanced (not just a sport).  I did Marv X2 - two kids.  I don't see an issue with it.  Gives me something to do.


Marvs As a trainer - prolific.... Marv as a father - not so much.

Z- Although you're a bit more hands on than I (based on your posts), there's no way you're a marv x2.

I know several guys who played ball w/his kid, all share a similar sentiment. That is.....he waaaaay over helicopter-popped his kid. And when "what you do" becomes the identity/defines/self view of  "who you are".....at some point, he and most people under that pressure will at some point will crack.

Goes back to teaching your kids to have perspective....especially during the HS years.


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## Zoro (Aug 20, 2016)

I'm not Marv.  Tods roommate was a buddy at Starbucks I talked with for years.
I guess x2 met I had two kids.  That was written poorly.  The wine does that.
My family does define who I am.  Not in total, but in much. I think that to be a good thing.

Edit Add:
For every Tod ruined (which I don't believe) by an over zealous dad there are as many more* as doing similar to Tod, from dad-less parenting.  It would be good to error on the Marv side.

*Quotes without source abound on the Internet.  So I'll ref one.  I think the "one study" was by Pew Research.  I can't find it and didn't look too hard but here is one from a quick search.
_"According to one study, about 90% of the change in crime rates between 1973 and 1995 had been accounted for by children born into single-family setups and those that had been born outside of marriage."_


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## espola (Aug 20, 2016)

Zoro said:


> I'm not Marv.  Tods roommate was a buddy at Starbucks I talked with for years.
> I guess x2 met I had two kids.  That was written poorly.  The wine does that.
> My family does define who I am.  Not in total, but in much. I think that to be a good thing.
> 
> ...


Was this your source for that?

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t403781-2/


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## Zoro (Aug 20, 2016)

espola said:


> Was this your source for that?
> 
> https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t403781-2/


This is one - that quotes another.  https://singleparentingarticles.wordpress.com/2013/04/08/single-parents-and-crime-rates-among-children/

Although you are linking to a white pride site, the stat holds pretty true regardless of race.  Kids born to unwed parents of either race have about the same chances of success, which is far less than those born to married parents that stay together.  

Similar:
_"Cut to its core, the evidence shows that children are less likely to commit violent crime if they have responsible adults in their lives. Even impoverished kids living in crime-ravaged neighborhoods tend to make it if they have an adult parent, teacher, coach or clergy to protect and guide them."
https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/stop-crime-where-it-starts/

"...Children lucky enough to have strong parents are more likely to succeed at all the critical life stages..."
https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-parenting-gap/_

_





http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/09/marriage-america-s-greatest-weapon-against-child-poverty
_


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## espola (Aug 20, 2016)

Zoro said:


> This is one - that quotes another.  https://singleparentingarticles.wordpress.com/2013/04/08/single-parents-and-crime-rates-among-children/
> 
> Although you are linking to a white pride site, the stat holds pretty true regardless of race.  Kids born to unwed parents of either race have about the same chances of success, which is far less than those born to married parents that stay together.
> 
> ...


The wordpress article repeats your willingness to quote unknown sources.  The two Brookings Institute articles do not criticize single parenting, but stress the good qualities of "strong parenting", with the possibility of that being a single parent.  The heritage.org article includes as a source "author's calculations".

Getting back on topic - when Todd M started getting off the track by hitting up weed every morning before high school, his parents had divorced and he was living in a rental apartment with his dad.


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## Zoro (Aug 20, 2016)

espola said:


> ...
> Getting back on topic - when Todd M started getting off the track by hitting up weed every morning before high school, his parents had divorced and he was living in a rental apartment with his dad.


So Marv is not  good test case at all.
The topic started Post #7 http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/high-school-soccer.337/#post-6371

I'm not seeing real evidence that going all-in on a kid for a sport is a bad thing.  I do see some correlation to success/popularity and Todd like behavior.


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## Zerodenero (Aug 20, 2016)

Zoro said:


> For every Tod ruined (which I don't believe) by an over zealous dad there are as many more* as doing similar to Tod, from dad-less parenting.  It would be good to error on the Marv side_."_


Yes....but there is a tipping point (ref - Malcolm Gladwell)


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## Zoro (Aug 20, 2016)

I don't know where it is.  I have not seen SoCal soccer families go over that limit of involvement.  Maybe the parents that ruined their kids by being too involved in their lives just don't post here.  Todd is just one data point.  And as a kid of a single parent (later), falls into that other big group.  As you said, I am not Marv.  But in demanding a lot of kids setting them up also allows them to do harder things.

Choosing clubs and coaches, choosing high schools, choosing colleges, getting passports, getting medical reviews, applying to college, financial aid is all stuff a parent can do better and know more than a kid (usually).

*Proverbs 22:6 *
Start children off on the way they should go, and even when they are old they will not turn from it.


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## Zerodenero (Aug 22, 2016)

SOCCERMINION said:


> Imagine where she would be if she was homeschooled since she was 9 so she could spend 24/7 training. Imagine if her parents controlled her diet since she was 9 and she did weight training, speed training and had private coaching daily.  Imaging if she spent every weekend of her teenage years traveling and playing on youth national teams!!!!!!! What would happen, how good would she be?,....I believe it is called the Marinovich effect.


And the marinovich story continues: http://m.ocregister.com/articles/marinovich-726612-possession-quarterback.html


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## soccermama213 (Sep 2, 2016)

My dd is going to be a sophomore and started her HS season last year coming off a concussion. I was scared to death she would get hurt playing varsity as a freshman. However, she LOVED HS soccer and actually was sad when it was over. She was able to shine a lot since we play in a weaker HS league and was able to just enjoy the game, use a lot of her cool moves on less skilled players and made new friends that are now her core group of friends at school. She loves her club team and all that comes with it, but it made HS so much more fun for her. She didn't get hurt thankfully (because she was faster than most defenders twice her size coming after her) and I agree that HS injury sometimes an be a huge factor due to the lack of skilled players and horrible reffing. I cant say though that I don't worry every game but all the girls seem to love it


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## Laced (Sep 2, 2016)

What puzzles me is that CIF doesn't allow outside competition during HS season, i.e., no club practice or games. I wonder the rationale is. Allowing HS players to club practice and outside competition would only elevate the level of play. What's the harm?

No wonder USSDA doesn't allow its players to play HS. It could be the result of a pissing contest between HS soccer and USSDA.


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## Truth (Sep 2, 2016)

pulguita said:


> I guess I am a little salty now that the club career is over but I just can't help myself.  I know a kid that has trained or played 6 days a week since she was 11.  She has watched 2-3 professional soccer games every week (Barca of course - live or taped).  She's won 3 ODP National Championships, She's been to 2 State Cup Finals and a National Cup Final and lost.  She's won 3 National Cups in a Row.  She has been to the last 3 consecutive National Championships.  Won one, lost one in the finals and lost in pool play.  She has received numerous personal awards Academic and Athletic.  She received the first ever at her high school both Scholar Athlete and Athlete of the Year.  She was up for County Athlete of the Year but lost to another outstanding lady that has a similar story of setbacks and achievements and will be her crosstown rival in the Pac 12 this year.  Oh yeah she has played 4 years Varsity soccer won a total of 8 games her first three years versus a club team that didn't lose a game for 18 months in their National Championship year.  Her senior year they won league, lost in the CIF semis and State Semis had the time of their lives.  She is also in the U18 NT pool.  Please tell me that she didn't have it both ways.  She had it in spades and so have others.  Did I mention she has had a substantial scholarship in her hands since April of her sophomore year and is currently having a blast in sunny LA.


National Championships? Was this pre-ECNL?


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## MakeAPlay (Sep 3, 2016)

Truth said:


> National Championships? Was this pre-ECNL?


Nope.  His daughter won 3 ODP championships (one playing up) and a USYS National Championship.  Although she did DP occasionally with a few ECNL teams (and was asked by most to join) she played primarily in the USYS gaming circuit.  She is an outstanding player that will continue  do big things on and off the field.


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## gauchosean (Sep 6, 2016)

Laced said:


> What puzzles me is that CIF doesn't allow outside competition during HS season, i.e., no club practice or games. I wonder the rationale is. Allowing HS players to club practice and outside competition would only elevate the level of play. What's the harm?
> 
> No wonder USSDA doesn't allow its players to play HS. It could be the result of a pissing contest between HS soccer and USSDA.


The precedes USSDA by many many years. It was this way back in the 80s when I was in HS. 

They are trying to protect the kids form too much practice and it is there to prevent HS coaches from circumventing the maximum practice hours by setting up outside teams for their players to play on during the season. I believe maximum practice hours is 18 per week.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 6, 2016)

Laced said:


> What puzzles me is that CIF doesn't allow outside competition during HS season, i.e., no club practice or games. I wonder the rationale is. Allowing HS players to club practice and outside competition would only elevate the level of play. What's the harm?
> 
> No wonder USSDA doesn't allow its players to play HS. It could be the result of a pissing contest between HS soccer and USSDA.


As far as I know during HS season kids practice 5 days a week and have games on Saturdays during December, and 2 games a week during Jan/Feb.
Can you find the time to practice somewhere else besides that and homework? 
BTW CIF does not allow playing outside HS, but they do allow training and futsal, and so is college ID camps.


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## Laced (Sep 6, 2016)

Eagle33 said:


> As far as I know during HS season kids practice 5 days a week and have games on Saturdays during December, and 2 games a week during Jan/Feb.
> Can you find the time to practice somewhere else besides that and homework?
> BTW CIF does not allow playing outside HS, but they do allow training and futsal, and so is college ID camps.


I believe CIF allows outside training. Various sections have more restrictive rules. Some sections don't allow outside practice.


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## mirage (Sep 6, 2016)

What I recall is that CIF/SS allows external practices and ID/Training Camps, but CIF/SD has stricter rules (based on posts from those in that area).  CIF/LA section has its own so depending on where you are, its best to check with the local CIF Assistant Commissioner of your sports.

In CIF/SS, last season, my kid did a December and January ID camps and we had to clear it with his HS AD and HC, after getting an email back from the assist commish for soccer saying ok but to coordinate w/those two people.


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## espola (Sep 6, 2016)

mirage said:


> What I recall is that CIF/SS allows external practices and ID/Training Camps, but CIF/SD has stricter rules (based on posts from those in that area).  CIF/LA section has its own so depending on where you are, its best to check with the local CIF Assistant Commissioner of your sports.
> 
> In CIF/SS, last season, my kid did a December and January ID camps and we had to clear it with his HS AD and HC, after getting an email back from the assist commish for soccer saying ok but to coordinate w/those two people.


CIF SD relaxed its rules a bit over the last few years, allowing 6v6 indoor soccer (formerly limited to 5v5) and permitting players to participate in full-sided games at college ID camps (sometimes, with prior approval, limited time and repetitions, etc, ad nauseum).


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## Vin (Sep 9, 2016)

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/70309/high-school-coaches-rise-up.html


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## SOCAL soocer parent (Feb 3, 2017)

GKDad65 said:


> Play High School soccer enjoy yourself this opportunity only comes by a few times while you're young and then it's over.


I am with you, unfortunately, my son attends a local so cal HS the coach does not like club players, started punishing those who went to Nationals - he is a bully!  My son is loved by his club coaches he is a team player and just wants to play for his High School but because this guy has been around for 20 plus years the school doesn't care. The rest of the high school is our HS league embrace their club players and do not have any respect for this guy.8 plus other boys from my son's team play in our league for other High schools and love their soccer programs. Beyond frustrated, there is a large group of parents from years past and this year who are tired of this guys behavior, it's really all about him during games etc. Wish there was something I could do, next year is my sons last year.  He really wants to be on his HS team!!


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## outside! (Feb 3, 2017)

SOCAL soocer parent said:


> I am with you, unfortunately, my son attends a local so cal HS the coach does not like club players, started punishing those who went to Nationals - he is a bully!  My son is loved by his club coaches he is a team player and just wants to play for his High School but because this guy has been around for 20 plus years the school doesn't care. The rest of the high school is our HS league embrace their club players and do not have any respect for this guy.8 plus other boys from my son's team play in our league for other High schools and love their soccer programs. Beyond frustrated, there is a large group of parents from years past and this year who are tired of this guys behavior, it's really all about him during games etc. Wish there was something I could do, next year is my sons last year.  He really wants to be on his HS team!!


Sounds like a crappy situation. Out of curiosity however, how does the team do against other HS teams with club players?


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## jojosoccer (Feb 4, 2017)

Sounds like the south Orange County coach who has never changed his ways.
Too bad, he is clueless. Yes, it is frustrating..... that's HS soccer.
Stick with your club team, it's less stressful.


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## MakeAPlay (Feb 4, 2017)

SOCCERMINION said:


> I really don't get all the negative banter about HS soccer. For all the countless hours and hardwork of club training and highly competative games my daugher has attended, where is the harm in her playing for fun on a less competative team. My DD's abiliy to now play the sport she loves for her high school is one of the biggest rewards my DD is looking forward to. How could I not support my DD when she wants to show her abilities on the pitch at her HS and play with friends she grew up with. Sure my Daughter loves playing at Surf Cup with her club team and playing some of the best teams in the country. But IMHO I believe its her love of the game that is nurtured by playing with her friends that is most important. Isn't there still room for her to play just for her love of the game. For me I'm still glad its still up to her regaurdless of what any coach may say. It seams dumb to me that GDA would try to take any choice like that away and try to dictate whats best for your child.  Even if your DD was the Next Mallary Pugh, and she wanted to play for her HS. I'd say,"let her play".


This is a great post and very true.  For most girls, soccer is a very social activity.  Being able to show off their abilities on the pitch to their friends and classmates is huge for them.  They get their names mentioned in the school and local paper in addition to getting a built in peer group at a time that they are working out who they are. There are a ton of benefits even if it is usually bad soccer.


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## NoGoal (Feb 4, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> This is a great post and very true.  For most girls, soccer is a very social activity.  Being able to show off their abilities on the pitch to their friends and classmates is huge for them.  They get their names mentioned in the school and local paper in addition to getting a built in peer group at a time that they are working out who they are. There are a ton of benefits even if it is usually bad soccer.


Every Girl DA player will not be recruited to play college soccer.  Yet, they are prevented from playing HS Soccer and if their college of choice doesn't have interest in them.  They will lose their only opportunity to play HS soccer.


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## Overlap (Feb 7, 2017)

SOCCERMINION said:


> Imagine where she would be if she was homeschooled since she was 9 so she could spend 24/7 training. Imagine if her parents controlled her diet since she was 9 and she did weight training, speed training and had private coaching daily.  Imaging if she spent every weekend of her teenage years traveling and playing on youth national teams!!!!!!! What would happen, how good would she be?,....I believe it is called the Marinovich effect.


they didn't have a laughing emoji....good one!


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## Lambchop (Feb 7, 2017)

Overlap said:


> they didn't have a laughing emoji....good one!


This is what they are doing in China.


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## Multi Sport (Feb 7, 2017)

Only negative to HS Soccer is the chance of injury. But can happen in club as well.

As far as over training? Tell your kid to take it easy a few days during the week if you feel they are getting over trained.  They can tell the coach that they don't feel 100%.

But play and have fun. And I mean have fun as a parent too. Sit back and watch all the other crazy soccer parents and just pray you never turn into them.

Four years goes so fast.


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## Bdobyns (Feb 8, 2017)

Esperanza vs Foothill will be a do or die for Esperanza.  Foothill already has one of the head to head (3-0).  Curiously, neither one made the OC top 10 but Maxpreps has Esperanza as a higher seed.  Who will win league this year?


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## GKDad65 (Feb 8, 2017)

How about the quality of coaching in HS vs. Club?  Unfortunately, IMHO the HS coaches fall short, although there are exceptions either way.


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## outside! (Feb 8, 2017)

Many HS coaches are also club coaches. It just comes down to who you get.


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## CaliKlines (Feb 8, 2017)

Bdobyns said:


> Esperanza vs Foothill will be a do or die for Esperanza.  Foothill already has one of the head to head (3-0).  Curiously, neither one made the OC top 10 but Maxpreps has Esperanza as a higher seed.  Who will win league this year?


Esperanza.


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## Bdobyns (Feb 9, 2017)

CaliKlines said:


> Esperanza.


Congrats to the girls!!!  Any of them moving on to college ball next year?


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## f1nfutbol fan (Feb 9, 2017)

HS soccer has been a good thing for my DD.

club burned her out & she lost interest, so she quit.

she took over a year off, made the freshman team & is having a great time. The girls have scored over 120 goals so far.

yeah, the girls play some nice ball when they face good competition, but their level of quality quickly deteriorates with the play of the other team.... it's funny, they see boom ball, then they play down in style... it's noticeable in club as well. I'm just glad that all play has been clean.

As with club soccer, if the girls like the coach & the coach connects with them, positive results happen.


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## socalkdg (Feb 9, 2017)

f1nfutbol fan said:


> HS soccer has been a good thing for my DD.
> 
> club burned her out & she lost interest, so she quit.
> 
> ...


My daughter guest played with a U12 Extra team and we noticed the same thing.  First two games she played down to her teammates and the other team.   Next two games saw a nice change as she played her game and the rest of the team played up.   Even professionals have been know to do the same thing.  Guess it is human nature.


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## It won't matter later (Feb 9, 2017)

Bdobyns said:


> Esperanza vs Foothill will be a do or die for Esperanza.  Foothill already has one of the head to head (3-0).  Curiously, neither one made the OC top 10 but Maxpreps has Esperanza as a higher seed.  Who will win league this year?



I missed the game last night.  Congrats to Esperanza and good luck to both in CIF.  My poor kid is still out....


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## NoGoal (Feb 9, 2017)

In case some parents are wondering and I'm not sure if this is new regarding CIF divisional playoffs.  A school could be playing a D1 league schedule and because of their previous 2 yr results bracketed in the D2 playoffs.

Here is the CIF HS girls power rankings prior to the season.
http://cifss.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Girls-Soccer-Power-Ranking-as-of-10-27-16.pdf


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## Bdobyns (Feb 9, 2017)

It won't matter later said:


> I missed the game last night.  Congrats to Esperanza and good luck to both in CIF.  My poor kid is still out....


As is mine.  This is the first (and hopefully the last) time that she has been directed by a doctor to stay off the field.  Seems like just yesterday that my girl was freshman.


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## Bdobyns (Feb 12, 2017)

Just trying to take a look at the final results for local high school soccer leagues.  So, looking at the Sunset League, I go to CIFSS.ORG to get some info, you know, the official site, and it is linked to http://www.maxpreps.com/league/tRZmBd078UWRYpUTd_wN0Q/standings-sunset.htm so that is cool.  HBHS and FVHS both played 11 games this year in league!!!  That can't be right.  So I go to http://www.ocvarsity.com/sections/standings/?sportID=1&gender=G to see if the Orange County Register, the newspaper, has the league standings.  Both those same teams only played 9 games.  So, here is the thing, who is in charge of keeping information up to date?  I think that maybe this is a sign of how people view women's high school soccer--it doesn't really matter, unless you are a parent of the player.  I bet that men's football and basketball information is updated.  I follow one of the LA Times high school sports guys on twitter, and what comes through his feed--football, basketball, baseball with a few things from women's basketball and an occasional mention of boy's soccer (usually servite) and nothing of women's soccer.  As with most of twitter, it is almost always about retweets, meaning, that which is most interesting is most tweeted and soccer, especially women's soccer, has an extremely low interest and following.


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## LadiesMan217 (Feb 12, 2017)

Bdobyns said:


> Just trying to take a look at the final results for local high school soccer leagues.  So, looking at the Sunset League, I go to CIFSS.ORG to get some info, you know, the official site, and it is linked to http://www.maxpreps.com/league/tRZmBd078UWRYpUTd_wN0Q/standings-sunset.htm so that is cool.  HBHS and FVHS both played 11 games this year in league!!!  That can't be right.  So I go to http://www.ocvarsity.com/sections/standings/?sportID=1&gender=G to see if the Orange County Register, the newspaper, has the league standings.  Both those same teams only played 9 games.  So, here is the thing, who is in charge of keeping information up to date?  I think that maybe this is a sign of how people view women's high school soccer--it doesn't really matter, unless you are a parent of the player.  I bet that men's football and basketball information is updated.  I follow one of the LA Times high school sports guys on twitter, and what comes through his feed--football, basketball, baseball with a few things from women's basketball and an occasional mention of boy's soccer (usually servite) and nothing of women's soccer.  As with most of twitter, it is almost always about retweets, meaning, that which is most interesting is most tweeted and soccer, especially women's soccer, has an extremely low interest and following.


Coaches keep that information up to date.


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## Bdobyns (Feb 12, 2017)

LadiesMan217 said:


> Coaches keep that information up to date.


So why is it that some coaches don't update maxpreps?  My kid's school updates maxpreps often, including rosters, pics and stats as well as use instagram, twitter and facebook, https://twitter.com/GirlWarriors.  The kids, parents, families, friends, staff, perspective coaches like stuff like that.  On the other hand, where I work, nothing is done to highlight the girls, which can be done even if they lose.  Now, the football team, tons of promotion, pics, tweets, highlights,etc... Believe me, the same lackadaisical approach of some of the high school coaches also is evident in many coaches and clubs too.  You only get to ride this train once, just want it to be the best experience possible.  I am very fortunate.


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## MakeAPlay (Feb 12, 2017)

Bdobyns said:


> So why is it that some coaches don't update maxpreps?  My kid's school updates maxpreps often, including rosters, pics and stats as well as use instagram, twitter and facebook, https://twitter.com/GirlWarriors.  The kids, parents, families, friends, staff, perspective coaches like stuff like that.  On the other hand, where I work, nothing is done to highlight the girls, which can be done even if they lose.  Now, the football team, tons of promotion, pics, tweets, highlights,etc... Believe me, the same lackadaisical approach of some of the high school coaches also is evident in many coaches and clubs too.  You only get to ride this train once, just want it to be the best experience possible.  I am very fortunate.


Football is king and makes money.  Basketball is second.  Girls sports are and always have been in the US about Title IX.  Nonetheless they are entertaining.  It's his loss.  With girls it's always about playing well, getting good grades and having fun.

Good luck to you and yours.


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## LadiesMan217 (Feb 12, 2017)

Bdobyns said:


> So why is it that some coaches don't update maxpreps?  My kid's school updates maxpreps often, including rosters, pics and stats as well as use instagram, twitter and facebook, https://twitter.com/GirlWarriors.  The kids, parents, families, friends, staff, perspective coaches like stuff like that.  On the other hand, where I work, nothing is done to highlight the girls, which can be done even if they lose.  Now, the football team, tons of promotion, pics, tweets, highlights,etc... Believe me, the same lackadaisical approach of some of the high school coaches also is evident in many coaches and clubs too.  You only get to ride this train once, just want it to be the best experience possible.  I am very fortunate.


Some coaches just don't care or even report win/losses in a timely manner when they are responsible for the scorekeeping. Glad my DD does not have one of those coaches either...


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