# Club soccer stuff that drive you nuts...



## soccerchaffeur (May 3, 2021)

When managers or coaches go on social media recruiting for or looking for scrimmages for 'high level' flight 3.
I can't think of a bigger oxymoron.

When parents sit on the wrong half of the field.  I swear...most of them do it to be confrontational.

Refs who fail to card the younger players for egregious penalties. These kids are a lot more savvy than these refs give them credit for.


----------



## Eagle33 (May 3, 2021)

soccerchaffeur said:


> When managers or coaches go on social media recruiting for or looking for scrimmages for 'high level' flight 3.
> I can't think of a bigger oxymoron.
> 
> When parents sit on the wrong half of the field.  I swear...most of them do it to be confrontational.
> ...


parents on soccer forum worry about someone else or paying attention to things they shouldn't.


----------



## Woodwork (May 3, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> parents on soccer forum worry about someone else or paying attention to things they shouldn't.


Ironic.

This board is really boring lately and could use more parents venting about stupid stuff.


----------



## Glitterhater (May 3, 2021)

I'll play. Why the hell not?

Clubs being so damn secretive surrounding coaching slates and tryout days/times until the 11th hour.


----------



## crush (May 3, 2021)

Glitterhater said:


> I'll play. Why the hell not?
> 
> Clubs being so damn secretive surrounding coaching slates and tryout days/times until the 11th hour.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 3, 2021)

coaches recruiting parents from the other team in the middle of the game with no shame.


----------



## NorCalUSN (May 3, 2021)

I never realized there was some rule about where you sit during the game. I go where I want, I'm not trying to be confrontational I'm just trying to see my daughter('s) play from a better perspective defensive or offensive. I guess it would be a problem if I was screaming at the kids but I'm pretty much silent just cheering my girl on.  Didn't realize there was some "DMZ/neutral zone" at half field where we weren't supposed to cross under penalty of ... My thinking as long as I'm not obstructing a parent's view when I do it, I'm good.


----------



## Venantsyo (May 3, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> coaches recruiting parents from the other team in the middle of the game with no shame.


I guess you played Slammers lately...


----------



## Cruzer (May 3, 2021)

NorCalUSN said:


> I never realized there was some rule about where you sit during the game. I go where I want, I'm not trying to be confrontational I'm just trying to see my daughter('s) play from a better perspective defensive or offensive. I guess it would be a problem if I was screaming at the kids but I'm pretty much silent just cheering my girl on.  Didn't realize there was some "DMZ/neutral zone" at half field where we weren't supposed to cross under penalty of ... My thinking as long as I'm not obstructing a parent's view when I do it, I'm good.


I normally like sitting with my team parents, but last weekend we were coming in right on time and did not want to miss anything so we sat in the nearest opening we found. AAAND it was next to my DD's position (right winger). We were kindly reminded by the ref that our side was on the opposite side of the field. BLAH! All we did was clap when she did well (scored and had an assist in the first 8-10 mins). Parents gave us a snear so we bounced (wife did not want any static). WHATEVER MAN! Dueces...


----------



## Cruzer (May 3, 2021)

When parents argue a call with the center ref.


----------



## crush (May 3, 2021)

Cruzer said:


> I normally like sitting with my team parents, but last weekend we were coming in right on time and did not want to miss anything so we sat in the nearest opening we found. AAAND it was next to my DD's position (right winger). We were kindly reminded by the ref that our side was on the opposite side of the field. BLAH! All we did was clap when she did well (scored and had an assist in the first 8-10 mins). Parents gave us a snear so we bounced (wife did not want any static). WHATEVER MAN! Dueces...


Cruzer, you sound like me when my goat was a baby goat.  I got the worst sneer ever from LA mama bear and I ran over to the other side before ref told me to get my ass back to my side.


----------



## crush (May 3, 2021)

Cruzer said:


> When parents argue a call with the center ref.


Guilty as charged, well kind of.  I was turning over a new leaf this year until HSS started.  I will say I was NOT arguing a call though.  I was yelling at CR to make calls to warn ((yellow)) players who are playing rugby and ((red)) for those who refuse to stop playing rugby


----------



## Cruzer (May 3, 2021)

crush said:


> Guilty as charged, well kind of.  I was turning over a new leaf this year until HSS started.  I will say I was NOT arguing a call though.  I was yelling at CR to make calls to warn ((yellow)) players who are playing rugby and ((red)) for those who refuse to stop playing rugby


I am assuming the coach said nothing? I would be irate, too. But I would give the coach a chance to protect his players. If not, I will.


----------



## mlx (May 3, 2021)

NorCalUSN said:


> I never realized there was some rule about where you sit during the game. I go where I want, I'm not trying to be confrontational I'm just trying to see my daughter('s) play from a better perspective defensive or offensive. I guess it would be a problem if I was screaming at the kids but I'm pretty much silent just cheering my girl on.  Didn't realize there was some "DMZ/neutral zone" at half field where we weren't supposed to cross under penalty of ... My thinking as long as I'm not obstructing a parent's view when I do it, I'm good.


Yeah, that is the rule. It’s lame when both sets of parents ate civilized. But it helps when there are jerks on either side.


----------



## tjinaz (May 4, 2021)

Clubs all scheduling the tryouts for the same age groups at the exact same times.


----------



## MamaBear5 (May 4, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Clubs all scheduling the tryouts for the same age groups at the exact same times.


I'll add to that...this year clubs scheduling tryout at the same time high school games are going on.


----------



## Soccermom18 (May 4, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Clubs all scheduling the tryouts for the same age groups at the exact same times.


Or club tryouts when the season isn't quite over yet...


----------



## espola (May 4, 2021)

Soccermom18 said:


> Or club tryouts when the season isn't quite over yet...


Coach's nightmare -- you have already had tryouts and decided which players you are going to keep.  The next weekend the team gets eliminated from National Cup.  After the after-game team meeting, you have to hold 2 or 3 players back to tell them they are being cut.


----------



## Soccermom18 (May 4, 2021)

espola said:


> Coach's nightmare -- you have already had tryouts and decided which players you are going to keep.  The next weekend the team gets eliminated from National Cup.  After the after-game team meeting, you have to hold 2 or 3 players back to tell them they are being cut.


That indeed is a nightmare!  So many nightmare scenarios for everyone during tryouts.  

Coaches cutting kids after the season.  Those parents are completely blindsided because they didn't try out anywhere else. 

Players went to tryouts at other clubs, leave club after the season and coach is blindsided. 

I know it all works out in the end.  

Parents: There will always be a club for your child.  
Coaches: There will always be another player for your team.


----------



## MamaBear5 (May 4, 2021)

Soccermom18 said:


> That indeed is a nightmare!  So many nightmare scenarios for everyone during tryouts.
> 
> Coaches cutting kids after the season.  Those parents are completely blindsided because they didn't try out anywhere else.
> 
> ...


In a perfect world the coach would give the kids he is cutting a heads up so they can start trying out. I hate this time of year as I wait to see the fate of my kiddo for the next season. Most of the time I wish we never started down this path.


----------



## Soccermom18 (May 4, 2021)

MamaBear5 said:


> In a perfect world the coach would give the kids he is cutting a heads up so they can start trying out. I hate this time of year as I wait to see the fate of my kiddo for the next season. Most of the time I wish we never started down this path.


I agree.  I wish it were more transparent and I hate this time of the year because all the parents are stressed out and there’s a lot of whispering going in.  But for the rest of the season, it’s great.  I love watching my child improve every year and form bonds with his teammates.  

I guess you have to take the good with the bad.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (May 4, 2021)

What I hate is when parents try to clique up in an attempt to make their kids tighter on the field + exclude others.

You may get some temp benefits from this type of behaviour. However it doesnt work in the long run. Eventually the clique will fall apart when one of the kids leave the team and you'll be surrounded by people you previously tried to exclude that dont like you.

Instead of playing the dinnerparty/sleepover game you'd be better off taking your kid to the park and shooting on goal.


----------



## Technician72 (May 4, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> What I hate is when parents try to clique up in an attempt to make their kids tighter on the field + exclude others.


This...this right here. Reminds me of "kid birthday parties" when they turn 1 or 2 where there's more alcohol than kids. The parents round up and form their posse and could care less about what's going on with the kids. I was sucked into that vortex when my kids first started club and realized real quickly that it would be better to watch practice from the car and show up right before kickoff and sit corner flag, even if it means being the dad that is "stuck up".

Don't get me wrong there are some good sensible parents to befriend that may be "life long" friends but the amount of crud you have to sift through to get to them sometimes isn't worth the risk.

The exception of course being Goats FC, where the criteria to be "selected" was that the parents got along and the parents were in on the joke.


----------



## crush (May 4, 2021)

When some Club Docs and some Club Coaches tell soccer players that HSS sucks.  This was last week upset of the week and OC Register was their filming live. The back story is NBH beat the Breakers bad at their place 4-0.  Breakers needed this win to qualify for CIF and they pulled off the upset in OT.  It was senior night and what a way to go out by making CIF playoffs and a good chance to win league.


----------



## BIGD (May 4, 2021)

Technician72 said:


> This...this right here. Reminds me of "kid birthday parties" when they turn 1 or 2 where there's more alcohol than kids. The parents round up and form their posse and could care less about what's going on with the kids. I was sucked into that vortex when my kids first started club and realized real quickly that it would be better to watch practice from the car and show up right before kickoff and sit corner flag, even if it means being the dad that is "stuck up".
> 
> Don't get me wrong there are some good sensible parents to befriend that may be "life long" friends but the amount of crud you have to sift through to get to them sometimes isn't worth the risk.
> 
> The exception of course being Goats FC, where the criteria to be "selected" was that the parents got along and the parents were in on the joke.


Agree, one of the worst parts of club soccer, other parents.  Suck all the fun out of it.

After 8 years of club soccer, my list of things that drive me nuts is much too long to post.   Definitely ready to move on.  The downsides have seemed to finally eclipsed the upsides. Just waiting to see if my player will make the call before I have to for him.

Will be interesting to see what the club soccer landscape looks like in 10 years.  If you look at Gen Y/Millennial consumer and parenting trends thus far, I’m not convinced they will be drinking the pay to play competitive sports kool-aid at the same rate as the Gen X parents did/do.  Clubs may need to rethink their strategies for the next generation in the near future.


----------



## RedCard (May 4, 2021)

1 - When parents AND coaches don't read up on the yearly changes in The Laws of the Game.
2 -Advertising tryouts as "#3 ranked team in SoCal" this year when there is really no true ranking system this season due to COVID and not enough games played to be ranked.
3 - $12 parking at Silverlakes when we go twice a weekend.
4 - During practice, when your kid's soccer ball goes to another part of the field where a different club is practicing and they won't return the ball.
5 - Too many Initials leagues (ECNL, GA, ECRL, EA, DPL...)


----------



## Technician72 (May 4, 2021)

BIGD said:


> Agree, one of the worst parts of club soccer, other parents.  Suck all the fun out of it.
> 
> After 8 years of club soccer, my list of things that drive me nuts is much too long to post.   Definitely ready to move on.  The downsides have seemed to finally eclipsed the upsides. Just waiting to see if my player will make the call before I have to for him.
> 
> Will be interesting to see what the club soccer landscape looks like in 10 years.  If you look at Gen Y/Millennial consumer and parenting trends thus far, I’m not convinced they will be drinking the pay to play competitive sports kool-aid at the same rate as the Gen X parents did/do.  Clubs may need to rethink their strategies for the next generation in the near future.


Same boat, glad my oldest is “fingers crossed” moving on after next year. Conversation are progressing nicely and her hard work should pay dividends this final season.


----------



## Frank (May 4, 2021)

Why w


crush said:


> Guilty as charged, well kind of.  I was turning over a new leaf this year until HSS started.  I will say I was NOT arguing a call though.  I was yelling at CR to make calls to warn ((yellow)) players who are playing rugby and ((red)) for those who refuse to stop playing rugby


Why would the CR ever take your suggestion/instruction?


----------



## Frank (May 4, 2021)

I got one for you.  Coaching your goalkeeper son during the entire match standing next to the goal.  We didn't complain as the wasn't competitive.


----------



## Frank (May 4, 2021)

I got one for you.  Coaching your goalkeeper son during the entire match standing next to the goal.  We didn't complain as the wasn't competitive.View attachment 10693


----------



## Technician72 (May 4, 2021)

Frank said:


> I got one for you.  Coaching your goalkeeper son during the entire match standing next to the goal.  We didn't complain as the wasn't competitive.View attachment 10693


I’ve seen the keeper parent by the corner flag or sometimes behind the goal at a distance that can be misleading, but that picture is awesome. Might as well get in goal with them!


----------



## kickingandscreaming (May 4, 2021)

Soccermom18 said:


> Or club tryouts when the season isn't quite over yet...


How about before playoffs


----------



## crush (May 5, 2021)

kickingandscreaming said:


> How about before playoffs


How about write before big time showcase your kid gets the, "well, are you going to play HSS or go for U14 National Team?"  "Well, were waiting?"  Too funny and I'm still SMFH that I had deal with Mr. Prick who thought he could buy his way into the game.  He almost pulled it off......lol!!!


----------



## crush (May 5, 2021)

Frank said:


> Why w
> 
> Why would the CR ever take your suggestion/instruction?


Why?  Why not Frank?  Let me be frank with you Frank.  I was at a game where our top YNT player and soon to be UCLA star was getting mugged and beaten by hackers and the CR had his whistle stuck in his mouth.  I yelled as loud as I could, "Make a call ref.  Safety first, safety first."  1 minute later he called a yellow on the hacker.  It works Frank.


----------



## Grace T. (May 5, 2021)

Frank said:


> I got one for you.  Coaching your goalkeeper son during the entire match standing next to the goal.  We didn't complain as the wasn't competitive.View attachment 10693


Did he at least know what he was doing?  The problem is that many coaches think they do (because maybe even they played the position once when they were 12 for a season), but don’t and so tell them things which are wrong.  Even some gk coaches can be hacks. 

If it match wasn’t competitive what was he coaching? The backpass and positioning?


----------



## MamaBear5 (May 5, 2021)

Frank said:


> I got one for you.  Coaching your goalkeeper son during the entire match standing next to the goal.  We didn't complain as the wasn't competitive.View attachment 10693


I think my kiddo would be done with my husband if he ever did that. We learned to stay as far from the goal as possible. Does drive me nuts when other parents get behind my keepers goal (think the forwards dad trying to get good pictures.... and then yelling instructions to the kid).


----------



## Carlsbad7 (May 5, 2021)

MamaBear5 said:


> I think my kiddo would be done with my husband if he ever did that. We learned to stay as far from the goal as possible. Does drive me nuts when other parents get behind my keepers goal (think the forwards dad trying to get good pictures.... and then yelling instructions to the kid).


Wait until college when parents from the other team fly in from a different state and get seats behind your kid/goalie to yell insults at them the entire game.

Personally I'm double/triple nice to all goalies + goalie parents. It's a very hard position to play and often kids get pressured into playing it.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 5, 2021)

When parents make comments like, "The other team was not very good. They just had and passed the ball around us the entire game." (Memorial Cup 2017)


----------



## MamaBear5 (May 5, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Wait until college when parents from the other team fly in from a different state and get seats behind your kid/goalie to yell insults at them the entire game.
> 
> Personally I'm double/triple nice to all goalies + goalie parents. It's a very hard position to play and often kids get pressured into playing it.


My keeper is for sure a stronger person than I am. I was gifted noise cancelling headphones a year ago on mothers day and I now wear them to every game to drown out the parents on both sides who make comments about the kiddo.


----------



## VegasParent (May 5, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> When parents make comments like, "The other team was not very good. They just had and passed the ball around us the entire game." (Memorial Cup 2017)


Heard a parent from the opposing team in the parking lot say "Those were lucky goals" after my kid scored a hat trick. We beat them 3-0


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper (May 5, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Personally I'm double/triple nice to all goalies + goalie parents.


It is best to remember that the only people worse than goalies are parents of goalies.  . I say this mostly joking; goalies and their parents have to hear how every dad played goalie as a kid and wants to offer advice (not interested).  Over time that seems to go away, but annoying when they are young.  If you really want to support goalies, tell your kid to listen and do what the goalies are saying; they aren't talking just to talk.


----------



## outside! (May 5, 2021)

Frank said:


> I got one for you.  Coaching your goalkeeper son during the entire match standing next to the goal.  We didn't complain as the wasn't competitive.


I saw this once at a NL game in NC. Team from NY had a keeper dad that loudly complained about every little thing his DD did. I almost said something, but figured it would only make things worse and I am not sure I wouldn't have punched him. I still kind of wish I did.


----------



## Yousername (May 5, 2021)

MamaBear5 said:


> I'll add to that...this year clubs scheduling tryout at the same time high school games are going on.


LA county club mandating that current players have to come out to tryouts on the same day as an away game in San Diego.


----------



## soccerchaffeur (May 5, 2021)

realized real quickly that it would be better to watch practice from the car and show up right before kickoff and sit corner flag, even if it means being the dad that is "stuck up".




[/QUOTE]

I've become exactly this guy!


----------



## BIGD (May 5, 2021)

MamaBear5 said:


> My keeper is for sure a stronger person than I am. I was gifted noise cancelling headphones a year ago on mothers day and I now wear them to every game to drown out the parents on both sides who make comments about the kiddo.


One of the several reasons I think it's time for us to move on.  When the parents are bullies, what hope is there for the kids?  How is behavior from adults that would not be allowed in schools or even the workplace okay in the youth sports environment.


----------



## BIGD (May 5, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Personally I'm double/triple nice to all goalies + goalie parents. It's a very hard position to play and often kids get pressured into playing it.


Pressured because they generally aren't as good at 9 years old on the field so they are offered keeper to stay on the team.  I know a keeper that pre-puberty wasn't as "athletic" (aka not as "fit") as the other u-littles and so was offered the position of keeper to remain on the team.  Also a "scholarship" situation so they would be turning down the ability to play at the club level as well.   Post puberty, his entire physique changed and he's now one of the more physically athletic players on the team.  While this is great for him in the keeper position, he would LOVE to play as a field player.  But alas, all those missed years of development he's behind his teammates in those skills.  I would guess within a year he could catch up.  But I don't see the club being willing to offer that.  Another example of where club soccer fails the kids it's supposed to serve; placing kids in positions at an early age, especially keeper.  I don't think we should allow designated keepers until U13.


----------



## MamaBear5 (May 5, 2021)

BIGD said:


> Pressured because they generally aren't as good at 9 years old on the field so they are offered keeper to stay on the team.  I know a keeper that pre-puberty wasn't as "athletic" (aka not as "fit") as the other u-littles and so was offered the position of keeper to remain on the team.  Also a "scholarship" situation so they would be turning down the ability to play at the club level as well.   Post puberty, his entire physique changed and he's now one of the more physically athletic players on the team.  While this is great for him in the keeper position, he would LOVE to play as a field player.  But alas, all those missed years of development he's behind his teammates in those skills.  I would guess within a year he could catch up.  But I don't see the club being willing to offer that.  Another example of where club soccer fails the kids it's supposed to serve; placing kids in positions at an early age, especially keeper.  I don't think we should allow designated keepers until U13.


Wow...have you watched high level club soccer recently? Keepers are now playing with their feet almost as much if not more than their hands. At practice you could not pick out the keepers from the field players in keep away, passing drills or sprints. Most top level keepers I know could easily play in the forward position but choose to play keeper. Who would stay in that position if they didn't love it. Getting verbally abused by parents, sometimes teammates and having 1 if not 2 extra trainings a week on top of regular team trainings - not something for the "least athletically fit" player on the team. Comments like these are why I keep my headphones in.....I take it too personally and as an insult to my kiddo.


----------



## BIGD (May 5, 2021)

MamaBear5 said:


> Wow...have you watched high level club soccer recently? Keepers are now playing with their feet almost as much if not more than their hands. At practice you could not pick out the keepers from the field players in keep away, passing drills or sprints. Most top level keepers I know could easily play in the forward position but choose to play keeper. Who would stay in that position if they didn't love it. Getting verbally abused by parents, sometimes teammates and having 1 if not 2 extra trainings a week on top of regular team trainings - not something for the "least athletically fit" player on the team. Comments like these are why I keep my headphones in.....I take it too personally and as an insult to my kiddo.


This is what happened in this case.  It wasn't meant to be the story of all keepers.  I was sharing an specific experience and in my eyes was not fair to the kid in this position.  I absolutely agree that it was wrong.  And he is good with his feet and I think he could play on the field, I feel it is wrong that the club likely won't allow it  The point was he was pigeonholed too early and they won't be flexible for him now.

I do also have experience with keepers who love their position.  I was just describing an experience where that's not the case.


----------



## notintheface (May 5, 2021)

MamaBear5 said:


> In a perfect world the coach would give the kids he is cutting a heads up so they can start trying out. I hate this time of year as I wait to see the fate of my kiddo for the next season. Most of the time I wish we never started down this path.


Whoa. Get your kid to play down a flight. They will start games and get way more minutes and will be way happier and you won't have to worry about whether or not they have a spot. Fighting for the 15th spot on a roster when you're only going to get a few minutes per game (if that) isn't fun.


----------



## Grace T. (May 5, 2021)

BIGD said:


> This is what happened in this case.  It wasn't meant to be the story of all keepers.  I was sharing an specific experience and in my eyes was not fair to the kid in this position.  I absolutely agree that it was wrong.  And he is good with his feet and I think he could play on the field, I feel it is wrong that the club likely won't allow it  The point was he was pigeonholed too early and they won't be flexible for him now.
> 
> I do also have experience with keepers who love their position.  I was just describing an experience where that's not the case.


I’ve seen it too particularly at the lower bronze boys level since at that age you only need to big kid to block the goal as much as possible. The problem is the higher level keepers like my son start intensive training when they are 9 or 10.  A super athletic kid can catch up but there’s just a ton of things to learn...I started to count all the skills that need to be mastered the other day...I hit over 100 before I just stopped. Also by the time he hits 12 and needs to cover the full goal if he’s overweight and slow he won’t be able to jump to do the extension dives he needs to cover the entire goal. And as mentioned by 12 the higher level keepers are playing as much with their feet as the field players.  The kid you mention (unless puberty changes him) will be dropped as the team moves up in the rankings, eventually recruiting a player who is fit and trained the position.


----------



## Piccc (May 5, 2021)

How about the coaches helping the kids via their network to find the best placement for development for this player without being an ego issue 
I am sick and tired or having to hide or feel guilty for looking out for the best of my kid


----------



## GLangevinito (May 7, 2021)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> It is best to remember that the only people worse than goalies are parents of goalies.  . I say this mostly joking; goalies and their parents have to hear how every dad played goalie as a kid and wants to offer advice (not interested).  Over time that seems to go away, but annoying when they are young.  If you really want to support goalies, tell your kid to listen and do what the goalies are saying; they aren't talking just to talk.


That has been my experience, as well. The GK parents tend to be the most over the top parents. Not sure why


----------



## Grace T. (May 7, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> That has been my experience, as well. The GK parents tend to be the most over the top parents. Not sure why


It's pretty easy to understand....only the most over the top parents, and sturdiest of mental kids, will survive in the position.  It's a position which: a. the coaches rarely know how to coach if they even bother to coach (since coaches even if they know something about GK [most don't but think they do] will tend to focus on skills first, the offense second and defensive line next and then conditioning before getting to the GK), b. the GK is blamed for every mistake while the field player can get away with multiple mistakes and "it's unlucky", and c. for which the skill set is vastly different and for which training is required on top of the usual soccer training.  If either the kid or the parent isn't "all in" they won't survive in the position long.


----------



## Grace T. (May 7, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> It's pretty easy to understand....only the most over the top parents, and sturdiest of mental kids, will survive in the position.  It's a position which: a. the coaches rarely know how to coach if they even bother to coach (since coaches even if they know something about GK [most don't but think they do] will tend to focus on skills first, the offense second and defensive line next and then conditioning before getting to the GK), b. the GK is blamed for every mistake while the field player can get away with multiple mistakes and "it's unlucky", and c. for which the skill set is vastly different and for which training is required on top of the usual soccer training.  If either the kid or the parent isn't "all in" they won't survive in the position long.


p.s. my son recently took a promotion leaving a team he dearly loved and had a lot of friends on.  His replacement had played GK too, and has a lot of natural talent.  He's even done better in a few games than my son could, given the particular shots given.  Even though the kid is all in, the parents aren't, hence the team needs to find a new GK.


----------



## crush (May 7, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> p.s. my son recently took a promotion leaving a team he dearly loved and had a lot of friends on.  His replacement had played GK too, and has a lot of natural talent.  He's even done better in a few games than my son could, given the particular shots given.  Even though the kid is all in, the parents aren't, hence the team needs to find a new GK.


Grace, I was able to play the great game of soccer for 7 years in AYSO as GK.  Club was not around in the 70s so AYSO was tier 1, just so you know.  Anyway, if I gave up a goal once in a blue moon, sometimes the older defenders would yell at me because I made a save but it went off my gloves and into the net for a, GOAL!!!!!!.  I had one guy get all pissed at me when I let one slip through my fingers and I got so mad back at him.  I told him if he was faster, then the defender wouldn't go around you so easily and have a direct shot at my face from 5 feet away.  No respect I tell ya with that position   I will say most of the articles in the local paper had glowing things to say about each of my games.  I real reporter with the Daily Pilot would come and take pics and write up a quick take on the each game.


----------



## Grace T. (May 7, 2021)

crush said:


> Grace, I was able to play the great game of soccer for 7 years in AYSO as GK.  Club was not around in the 70s so AYSO was tier 1, just so you know.  Anyway, if I gave up a goal once in a blue moon, sometimes the older defenders would yell at me because I made a save but it went off my gloves and into the net for a, GOAL!!!!!!.  I had one guy get all pissed at me when I let one slip through my fingers and I got so mad back at him.  I told him if he was faster, then the defender wouldn't go around you so easily and have a direct shot at my face from 5 feet away.  No respect I tell ya with that position   I will say most of the articles in the local paper had glowing things to say about each of my games.  I real reporter with the Daily Pilot would come and take pics and write up a quick take on the each game.


Club ball did exist in the 1970s.  That's when it was just starting to take off....most of our local clubs were founded in that decade.  It was just reserved for the really really good players that had money.  Everyone else played AYSO.  No B/C/D teams.  It was also mostly a girl's game back then....boys thought it was a sport for weaklings.


----------



## outside! (May 7, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> Club ball did exist in the 1970s.  That's when it was just starting to take off....most of our local clubs were founded in that decade.  It was just reserved for the really really good players that had money.  Everyone else played AYSO.  No B/C/D teams.  It was also mostly a girl's game back then....boys thought it was a sport for weaklings.


Many areas of the country had little or no soccer in the 1970's, club, AYSO or rec.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 7, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> Club ball did exist in the 1970s.  That's when it was just starting to take off....most of our local clubs were founded in that decade.  It was just reserved for the really really good players that had money.  Everyone else played AYSO.  No B/C/D teams.  It was also mostly a girl's game back then....boys thought it was a sport for weaklings.


Club was limited and is dependent on location. I grew up in the SGV (Pasadena) and club soccer did not attract the best players. And did not really take off till the early 80's in regards to being a known entity. I and a few of my friends/teammates eventually played at the college level and not one of them played club. Those that did were typically the weaker players. I know its weird, but that's who it attracted. Though that changed in the 90's.
Clubs I knew of and started in the 70's are: Claremont Stars, Santa Anita Soccer Club, NHB, and LaCanada Flyers (no longer exist and may have been merged with what is now or where LA Surf/LA Premier/Chelsea.


----------



## espola (May 7, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> Club ball did exist in the 1970s.  That's when it was just starting to take off....most of our local clubs were founded in that decade.  It was just reserved for the really really good players that had money.  Everyone else played AYSO.  No B/C/D teams.  It was also mostly a girl's game back then....boys thought it was a sport for weaklings.


I coached rec teams in San Diego area for a few years in the '70s (I was in the Navy then and they would let me leave work early and skip Saturday duty in the interest of supporting community affairs).  Most of the teams were boys or coed.  None of them were AYSO.  There was a County Cup tournament organized by the new Presidio league for regular season teams, plus weekend All-Star Team tournaments organized by local clubs.


----------



## Grace T. (May 7, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Club was limited and is dependent on location. I grew up in the SGV (Pasadena) and club soccer did not attract the best players. And did not really take off till the early 80's in regards to being a known entity. I and a few of my friends/teammates eventually played at the college level and not one of them played club. Those that did were typically the weaker players. I know its weird, but that's who it attracted. Though that changed in the 90's.
> Clubs I knew of and started in the 70's are: Claremont Stars, Santa Anita Soccer Club, NHB, and LaCanada Flyers (no longer exist and may have been merged with what is now or where LA Surf/LA Premier/Chelsea.



I played AYSO in the 70s early 80s.  It was entirely a girl affair and the boys wouldn't be caught dead there.  My brothers resisted fiercely, even though they'd play kicking the ball around in Catholic school with the other Latino kids.  It's why my dad went in hard with the grandkids to get them into soccer (a move he now seemingly regrets given the club soccer nonsense). It was a struggle sometimes for the boy teams to organize enough players.  There was also Latino sunday leagues (my dad played on those) so the Latino boys that knew how to play usually played on the jr. teams there.  The girls would have a great time of it and the names were really cute...The Bumble Bees/the unicorns/the starlights.  It was also all about the flair in your hair and the colors of the AYSO uniforms were cool too.  My dad thought it was funny Americans let girls play soccer considering that didn't happen in the old country.

Only the (white) boys played the club ball, and yeah you are right, they didn't tend to be the most athletic in our area either because those boys were generally playing basketball and gridiron football.  Our local clubs, though are still around (though one of them briefly changed to the La Galaxy name and one of them suspended  for a while after the 2008 financial crisis).


----------



## forsomuch (May 7, 2021)

Staying with the same team but the club changes names thus generating the incessant need to buy multiple top of the line uniforms every year!


----------



## espola (May 7, 2021)

outside! said:


> Many areas of the country had little or no soccer in the 1970's, club, AYSO or rec.


In the late '50s, high school principals in Vermont (The Vermont Headmaster's Association) proposed soccer as a fall sport for schools too small to be able to afford a football team (fall baseball had been the previous choice).  My father was one of those principals and was appointed to be the Commissioner at the first state high school championship game, played on the field at Middlebury College.  My brother and I were recruited to be ballboys.  The game was memorable because it ended in a scoreless tie and the trophy was given to the team who had taken the most corner kicks - the only tie-breaker rule they had at the time.


----------



## crush (May 7, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> *Club ball did exist in the 1970s*.  That's when it was just starting to take off....most of our local clubs were founded in that decade.  It was just reserved for the really really good players that had money.  Everyone else played AYSO.  No B/C/D teams.  It was also mostly a girl's game back then....*boys thought it was a sport for weaklings.*


Not in my town.  But yes, it did get it's roots in the 70s.  We all played A SO and it was awesome.


----------



## crush (May 7, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> *I played AYSO in the 70s early 80s.  It was entirely a girl affair and the boys wouldn't be caught dead there*.


Not the boys I played with.  When I get home I will share my newspaper articles from the local newspaper.  Grace, you're wrong on this take, MOO!!!


----------



## espola (May 7, 2021)

espola said:


> In the late '50s, high school principals in Vermont (The Vermont Headmaster's Association) proposed soccer as a fall sport for schools too small to be able to afford a football team (fall baseball had been the previous choice).  My father was one of those principals and was appointed to be the Commissioner at the first state high school championship game, played on the field at Middlebury College.  My brother and I were recruited to be ballboys.  The game was memorable because it ended in a scoreless tie and the trophy was given to the team who had taken the most corner kicks - the only tie-breaker rule they had at the time.


I found an interview online with my high school coach in those days.   reThatminded me that most schools didn't have nets on their goals in those days and that a goal from the field was worth 2 points, a penalty kick 1 point.  I remembered on my own that there was only 1 referee and most of them didn't have a clue about calling offside.


----------



## focomoso (May 8, 2021)

VegasParent said:


> Heard a parent from the opposing team in the parking lot say "Those were lucky goals" after my kid scored a hat trick. We beat them 3-0


Son's team was playing a scrimmage at U12 or 13. Our striker put in a banger from outside the box. The opposing coach yelled to his kids, "It's ok, anyone can get lucky!" 

I pulled the coach aside after the game to point out that maybe he shouldn't comment on the play of individual players on the opposing team. He didn't take it well.


----------



## outside! (May 10, 2021)

After a game the opposing coach was arguing with the ref. She screamed "and the first goal was offside!". DD was standing right there. She scored that first goal (and was not offside). DD vowed to never, ever play for that club, which cost that club the opportunity to have a local player who went on to play D1 soccer.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 10, 2021)

Coaches taunting other coaches on the sideline and even challenging them to a fight!  Some people just dont grow up!


----------



## SFR (May 10, 2021)

outside! said:


> After a game the opposing coach was arguing with the ref. She screamed "and the first goal was offside!". DD was standing right there. She scored that first goal (and was not offside). DD vowed to never, ever play for that club, which cost that club the opportunity to have a local player who went on to play D1 soccer.


Wait, are you saying that a club lost opportunity to have your daughter to play for them? Did they offer your daughter to join them or you're saying if they WOULD offer then she would say no?


----------



## VegasParent (May 10, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Coaches taunting other coaches on the sideline and even challenging them to a fight!  Some people just dont grow up!


Hate to admit that my kid played for a coach like this for a year and a half. He would get in to it with coaches, refs and other team parents. But my kid loved her teammates and didn't want to leave. I talked to the club director (I found out later that other parents did too) because it was getting worse every game and practice and I wanted to leave the team. Eventually the club had enough of him and he was fired. He then started taunting our team (coaches, parents and players) on social media and showing up to our games. He's since been fired from another club. Somehow he still manages to get another job and players to follow him.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (May 10, 2021)

SFR said:


> Wait, are you saying that a club lost opportunity to have your daughter to play for them? Did they offer your daughter to join them or you're saying if they WOULD offer then she would say no?


Why does it matter? Poor sportsmanship + unprofessional actions from an individual in a leadership position made up the parents mind to never play for that club. Probably 4-5 other parents were thinking the same thing.


----------



## outside! (May 10, 2021)

SFR said:


> Wait, are you saying that a club lost opportunity to have your daughter to play for them? Did they offer your daughter to join them or you're saying if they WOULD offer then she would say no?


We knew several players of that clubs top team. DD refused to play for that club and instead played for a different club's top team. Both teams played against each other many times. When parent's asked why she never tried out for their team, I let them know it was because of that one coach's unprofessional behavior. I have no doubt she could have made the team if she had wanted to. In the end, it worked out for the best.


----------



## Chelsea dad g09 (May 11, 2021)

Parents that get butthurt when your kid leaves a team.


----------



## Woodwork (May 11, 2021)

outside! said:


> We knew several players of that clubs top team. DD refused to play for that club and instead played for a different club's top team. Both teams played against each other many times. When parent's asked why she never tried out for their team, I let them know it was because of that one coach's unprofessional behavior. I have no doubt she could have made the team if she had wanted to. In the end, it worked out for the best.


Every soccer club in the world for has coaches that misjudge an offside in their team's favor.  Seems harsh


----------



## Soccermom18 (May 11, 2021)

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> Parents that get butthurt when your kid leaves a team.


They are probably a reason why you/your kid is leaving.

Some coaches also take it personally when you leave.


----------



## crush (May 11, 2021)

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> Parents that get butthurt when your kid leaves a team.


I left a church one time and I was told if I leave I'm going to hell, no joke.  In soccer, it can be worse then being sentenced to hell by some fake Pastor who was just after 10% of my income and my time.  Seriously, soccer parents and coaches who get all mad because a 13 year old leaves for greener pasture is silly and lame all in one.  It's just soccer.  I had a Doc get so butthurt he threaten me with being blacklisted because he said he knew everyone in the game.  One rich dad who had all the power told me coaches don;t like club hoppers and it's best not to leave the family ((The Firm)) if you want things to go your dd way.  He was talking to the wrong dad to F with.  Look, this was me running away as fast as I could


----------



## MamaBear5 (May 11, 2021)

Walked around the great park last night. Guess it was slammers tryouts. The huddled masses of whispering parents....the alliences - I'm leaving. You going to come with me? Who is leaving? Who is staying?


----------



## outside! (May 11, 2021)

Woodwork said:


> Every soccer club in the world for has coaches that misjudge an offside in their team's favor.  Seems harsh


That particular coach had exhibited poor behavior all game. After the game she ran out onto the field and started screaming at the ref just yards from DD. Then she proceeded to insult DD's goal (she was 12 at the time). Going forward, DD never wanted to be in a position where that coach might be her coach. We supported her decision.


----------



## Soccermom18 (May 11, 2021)

MamaBear5 said:


> Walked around the great park last night. Guess it was slammers tryouts. The huddled masses of whispering parents....the alliences - I'm leaving. You going to come with me? Who is leaving? Who is staying?


The worst time of the year.  The worst of the sports parent comes out during this time.


----------



## N00B (May 11, 2021)

Soccermom18 said:


> The worst time of the year.  The worst of the sports parent comes out during this time.


----------



## Soccermom18 (May 11, 2021)

N00B said:


>


HAHA 100% accurate!


----------



## foreveryoung (May 11, 2021)

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> Parents that get butthurt when your kid leaves a team.


But also, parents that leave teams in alliances so you lose 2-5 players at once right before tournament season or when they tell other parents they are considering leaving to create great drama and be begged to stay.  

I have no problem with players deciding to move clubs, just do it with integrity.


----------



## outside! (May 11, 2021)

foreveryoung said:


> But also, parents that leave teams in alliances so you lose 2-5 players at once right before tournament season or when they tell other parents they are considering leaving to create great drama and be begged to stay.
> 
> I have no problem with players deciding to move clubs, just do it with integrity.


Look out for what is best for your player, no one else will. We never talked to anyone about whether or not we were looking at other clubs. Don't lie, but shop around all you want. When you have made a decision, inform the coach.


----------



## lafalafa (May 11, 2021)

foreveryoung said:


> But also, parents that leave teams in alliances so you lose 2-5 players at once right before tournament season or when they tell other parents they are considering leaving to create great drama and be begged to stay.
> 
> I have no problem with players deciding to move clubs, just do it with integrity.


Our youngest son has had some what he thought was close friends abruptly leave teams just right before some major Tournaments, postseason, etc.

When he found out by surprised after they don't show he of course reached out to them.   Every time the player wanted to stay but the parents where not happy about something so they pulled there player.

He had one teammate that missed the first 5 games of state cup with the "flu"  showed up in the knockout round one game by surprised.  Coach didn't play him since he hadn't been to practice and the parents where really upset.   He sees them talking to the opposing coach after the game so he talks to him the next day.  His parents want him to join that team and not return but he wants to go back to practice. 

In the end it was parents that over ruled the player, he was never happy with that other team even tough they did well.  They hung out after there last HS rival game and where laughing about everything but  both commented how more fun it could have been if they could have played together more. That player ended up bouncing around on a few teams but  never even qualifed for the post season, won Tournaments, etc but at least they are both moving on to play in college.

Nothing really bugged me about club, surprised yes but it was fun for the kids and they enjoyed the journeys and all the competition.

Lack of fulfilling commitments from players parents, coaches, directors is something that could be worked on but it's just a individual thing so not sure how to improve that?


----------



## Simisoccerfan (May 11, 2021)

crush said:


> Not in my town.  But yes, it did get it's roots in the 70s.  We all played A SO and it was awesome.


Hey I grew up in the OC in the 70's.  I played on a club team out of Lake Forest in 1978.  Our league was in Santa Ana and everything was in Spanish.  Stopped playing a few years later and instead played Water Polo.


----------



## crush (May 11, 2021)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Hey I grew up in the OC in the 70's.  I played on a club team out of Lake Forest in 1978.  Our league was in Santa Ana and everything was in Spanish.  Stopped playing a few years later and instead played Water Polo.


Ok ok, I was just testing to see because I played all sports bro.  I had no time for full-time soccer soccer soccer soccer 4 days a week, 365 24/7.  I played Little Legue too, Volleyball, Surf contests, flag football.  I heard OC maybe  had two clubs.  My wife's father coached the likes of Jim Edmonds out of Diamond Bar.  That dude was a super athlete and I heard was really good soccer baller.  Lake Forest was awesome back in the day.  It was truly a Forest.  O'Neil Park was awesome


----------



## crush (May 11, 2021)

crush said:


> Ok ok, I was just testing to see because I played all sports bro.  I had no time for full-time soccer soccer soccer soccer 4 days a week, 365 24/7.  I played Little Legue too, Volleyball, Surf contests, flag football.  I heard OC maybe  had two clubs.  My wife's father coached the likes of Jim Edmonds out of Diamond Bar.  That dude was a super athlete and I heard was really good soccer baller.  Lake Forest was awesome back in the day.  It was truly a Forest.  O'Neil Park was awesome


Hey Simi, did you roller skate out at the skate rink off Eo Toro?


----------



## mlx (May 11, 2021)

MamaBear5 said:


> Walked around the great park last night. Guess it was slammers tryouts. The huddled masses of whispering parents....the alliences - I'm leaving. You going to come with me? Who is leaving? Who is staying?


I have said this before and i’ll say it again. Slammers parents are the trashiest parents. Any slammers denomination. Witnessed this once again this past weekend.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 11, 2021)

mlx said:


> I have said this before and i’ll say it again. Slammers parents are the trashiest parents. Any slammers denomination. Witnessed this once again this past weekend.


So your calling me trashy?


----------



## mlx (May 11, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> So your calling me trashy?


I’m sure there are exceptions. You tell us.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 11, 2021)

mlx said:


> I’m sure there are exceptions. You tell us.


Hmmm...you accuse me of being trashy, but I now have to prove it.


----------



## mlx (May 11, 2021)

I have one: Team admins gaining so much power with the coach (for some reason I can’t understand) and deciding which kids play more based on alliances, not on skills/performance.


----------



## mlx (May 11, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Hmmm...you accuse me of being trashy, but I now have to prove it.


You don’t have to. But if the suit fits, wear it.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 11, 2021)

mlx said:


> You don’t have to. But if the suit fits, wear it.


So, whose stepping in the wrong direction. It’s not me. Maybe, try expressing your issue in a manner and wording that does not blanket everyone.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 11, 2021)

mlx said:


> I have one: Team admins gaining so much power with the coach (for some reason I can’t understand) and deciding which kids play more based on alliances, not on skills/performance.


That’s a Slammers issue or one that happens along any club? I’d have to say the latter.


----------



## mlx (May 11, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> That’s a Slammers issue or one that happens along any club? I’d have to say the latter.


Any club, of course.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 11, 2021)

mlx said:


> I have one: Team admins gaining so much power with the coach (for some reason I can’t understand) and deciding which kids play more based on alliances, not on skills/performance.


Sounds like your kid needs a lower level flight to get more playing minutes.  Any kid that is a questionable start means they are good but not great.  Don’t let them set on the bench for top long or they will stop playing soccer.


----------



## N00B (May 11, 2021)

mlx said:


> I have one: Team admins gaining so much power with the coach (for some reason I can’t understand) and deciding which kids play more based on alliances, not on skills/performance.


Based on the ‘likes’ maybe that is a thing.  Clear sign of a weak coach, unless it’s more perception than fact.


----------



## mlx (May 11, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Sounds like your kid needs a lower level flight to get more playing minutes.  Any kid that is a questionable start means they are good but not great.  Don’t let them set on the bench for top long or they will stop playing soccer.


Dude, I know you are being condescending. My kids are starters. Go try to put down someone else.


----------



## lafalafa (May 12, 2021)

Fill in the blank club parent are.....

I dunno if I prescribe to that but the kids are the one playing.... the game speaks for its self... sidelines commentary not really needed unless it's just cheering or encouragement


----------



## Kicker4Life (May 12, 2021)

mlx said:


> Dude, I know you are being condescending. My kids are starters. Go try to put down someone else.


Sounds like someone doesn’t like it when broad assumptions are made about them.  You know, like:



mlx said:


> I have said this before and i’ll say it again. Slammers parents are the trashiest parents. Any slammers denomination.


I know I certainly don’t like it.


----------



## crush (May 12, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Sounds like someone doesn’t like it when broad assumptions are made about them.  You know, like:
> 
> 
> 
> I know I certainly don’t like it.


Ya bro, I can go back and find some trash from a few on here about my kid.  Losers I tell you.  The names EJ was called was so sad.  I went back and I'm shocked at the things some did to me on here.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 12, 2021)

mlx said:


> Dude, I know you are being condescending. My kids are starters. Go try to put down someone else.


You mean like you putting every slammers parent down?  I know some great slammers families.  
Why bring up this broad statement and then get your but hurt when I say that maybe your kids need to play in another team to get more minutes.  
If you can’t take the heat then don’t make broad statements.


----------



## Soccermom18 (May 12, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Fill in the blank club parent are.....
> 
> I dunno if I prescribe to that but the kids are the one playing.... the game speaks for its self... sidelines commentary not really needed unless it's just cheering or encouragement


If only parents would stick to cheering and encouragement...

I actually sit by myself a lot because:
1. Parental coaching from the sidelines.
2. Parents getting into arguments with the ref/other parents/the coach 
3. Parents mumbling about wanting more playing time for their kid and I don’t want to hear it.  Obviously, the coach made their decision as to why your child only gets the minutes they get.


----------



## crush (May 12, 2021)

I'm so woke now.  I was blind but now I see   Let's all take a step back and be honest with ourselves.  The last 14 months has been so hard on the kids.  Let's put generalities like, "everyone, always, never and the like" in the tool box.  Let's put our differences behind us and stop throwing our trash at each other. We all can get a little trashy, right?  Now I will say it's good to let all your trash out and throw it away once & for all, just don;t throw your dirty diapers at us, ok?  It might be time for a purging of sorts though and I am super down with that.  I have to admit I had problems with "some" TMs in the past.  I will never say "all TMs are."  I think if MIX switches a word here and there we can understand his pain. Others on here need to get honest and then we can engage.  I actually have a two dads who are big dudes who have already challenged me to a dual or have warned me not only to turn my cheek, but to turn around and not come towards him if I see him at Silver Lakes.  This is gnarly dad control sport guys and that sucks, MOO!!!  P.S.  I am super down to come up with a beer summit with ALL the dads so we can be nice to each other and put all this crap behind us so the kids can play without all this drama from the parents.


----------



## crush (May 12, 2021)

Soccermom18 said:


> If only parents would stick to cheering and encouragement...
> 
> I actually sit by myself a lot because:
> 1. Parental coaching from the sidelines.
> ...


This is one area my dear family has asked me to change and to be super honest, I have failed to live up to what I know I can better.  I told them I will 100% beginning at tonights CIF game   I love second chances.  Tonight is the night and I will make that change.  I love this song btw.  We all need to make that change.  I mean it.  I will stop engaging the refs and SMFM and just sit back and enjoy the match.  Thanks 100% for this.


----------



## El Clasico (May 12, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> So your calling me trashy?


Are you just giving that guy a hard time or did you actually cross over to the dark side? Something must have gone seriously wrong for you to make that jump.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 12, 2021)

El Clasico said:


> Are you just giving that guy a hard time or did you actually cross over to the dark side? Something must have gone seriously wrong for you to make that jump.


You know I didn’t. Their comment was disparaging to an entire group of people. It was a question that required a moments thought. Because they don’t know what club I am with. Therefore required a re-think.


----------



## espola (May 12, 2021)

Back when we got started in the weekly club soccer experience, there was one dad who would bring a thick book and sit quietly in a folding chair in the sun.  He read his book and more or less ignored the games, even when his son was on the ball.

We needed more like him.


----------



## outside! (May 12, 2021)

mlx said:


> I have said this before and i’ll say it again. Slammers parents are the trashiest parents. Any slammers denomination. Witnessed this once again this past weekend.


There are *&#hole parents at every club and this sounds like you are just trying to stir the pot. I do however have a humorous Slammers parents story. Long ago at Surf Turkey, the parking lots were a muddy mess. One of DD's teammates was with her father in their Prius. Dad had just gotten in and was in the process of closing his door when a car with a Slammers sticker in the rear window hit his driver's side door from behind and opened it all the way to the front fender and then stopped. Dad could not get out of the car since the Slammers car was in the way, so his very petite (relevant to the story) DD got out of the car on the passenger side to talk to the other driver. Before she could take more than a few steps, the other driver sped away. The other driver later told the police that he felt intimidated and unsafe, so he drove all the way home to wherever he was from. While this particular player is great player and a force to be reckoned with on the field, most would not call her intimidating off the field.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 12, 2021)

outside! said:


> There are *&#hole parents at every club. I do however have a humorous Slammers parents story. Long ago at Surf Turkey, the parking lots were a muddy mess. One of DD's teammates was with her father in their Prius. Dad had just gotten in and was in the process of closing his door when a car with a Slammers sticker in the rear window hit his driver's side door from behind and opened it all the way to the front fender and then stopped. Dad could not get out of the car since the Slammers car was in the way, so his very petite (relevant to the story) DD got out of the car on the passenger side to talk to the other driver. The other driver then sped away. The other driver later told the police that he felt intimidated and unsafe, so he drove all the way home to wherever he was from. While this particular player is great player and a force to be reckoned with on the field, most would not call her intimidating off the field.


Funny I think I know what player. If so, not intimidating at all.


----------



## timbuck (May 12, 2021)

Back to the original question - What drives you nuts...
This Spring in particular-  Cramming a spring season in, then going right into tryouts and then everyone scrambling to play a tournament by memorial day weekend.
The ONLY people this is good for is those that make money from youth soccer.  Your kids need a break.


----------



## watfly (May 12, 2021)

Some great anecdotes in this thread.

Lets be honest, how many things about Club soccer that drive us nuts are self inflicted by us parents?  I don't condone some of the crap pulled by DOC's, Clubs and Coaches, particularly the lack of communication and any concept of customer service, but we mostly have ourselves to blame for the problems...of course, some more than others.

Best of luck on everyone's soccer journey, enjoy it, and let's do our best to have a little sense of humor about it.


----------



## mlx (May 12, 2021)

outside! said:


> There are *&#hole parents at every club and this sounds like you are just trying to stir the pot. I do however have a humorous Slammers parents story. Long ago at Surf Turkey, the parking lots were a muddy mess. One of DD's teammates was with her father in their Prius. Dad had just gotten in and was in the process of closing his door when a car with a Slammers sticker in the rear window hit his driver's side door from behind and opened it all the way to the front fender and then stopped. Dad could not get out of the car since the Slammers car was in the way, so his very petite (relevant to the story) DD got out of the car on the passenger side to talk to the other driver. Before she could take more than a few steps, the other driver sped away. The other driver later told the police that he felt intimidated and unsafe, so he drove all the way home to wherever he was from. While this particular player is great player and a force to be reckoned with on the field, most would not call her intimidating off the field.


Good example. If you had said "Guess what club this person's kid belong to..." and then tell the story. My very first guess would've been "Slammers". 

I'm sorry some of you are getting their panties in a bunch, and I'm sure there are great Slammer families (even nicer people than me); but my experience in 4 years has been that, 100% of the times there's a Slammers team in the field (and I don't mean playing against my kids team, they could be on the field right next), there's some kind of drama caused by a or a group of slammers parents. This past weekend I witness one more episode.


----------



## Technician72 (May 12, 2021)

mlx said:


> I'm sorry some of you are getting their panties in a bunch, and I'm sure there are great Slammer families (even nicer people than me); but my experience in 4 years has been that, 100% of the times there's a Slammers team in the field (and I don't mean playing against my kids team, they could be on the field right next), there's some kind of drama caused by a or a group of slammers parents. This past weekend I witness one more episode.


With the Slammers expansion over the years would you say this applies to Slammers "Proper" or the affiliates?


----------



## SoccerFan6 (May 12, 2021)

Technician72 said:


> With the Slammers expansion over the years would you say this applies to Slammers "Proper" or the affiliates?


Exactly what is was going to ask.  I've had similar experiences with some of the affiliates that will remain nameless, but Newport Slammers have been some of the best behaved parents I've seen.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 12, 2021)

mlx said:


> Good example. If you had said "Guess what club this person's kid belong to..." and then tell the story. My very first guess would've been "Slammers".
> 
> I'm sorry some of you are getting their panties in a bunch, and I'm sure there are great Slammer families (even nicer people than me); but my experience in 4 years has been that, 100% of the times there's a Slammers team in the field (and I don't mean playing against my kids team, they could be on the field right next), there's some kind of drama caused by a or a group of slammers parents. This past weekend I witness one more episode.


It would help if you are specific on the team age or coach.   Nobody wants to join a team with a bunch of crazies.


----------



## crush (May 12, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> It would help if you are specific on the team age or coach.   *Nobody wants to join a team with a bunch of crazies.*


This is right here is the take of the year.  I think were all nuts and any club team is full of crazies parents.  Now, crazy people can change and I am 100% an example of someone who was crazy sucker parent but now I'm just chill soccer parent.  I learned my lesson


----------



## outside! (May 12, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> It would help if you are specific on the team age or coach.   Nobody wants to join a team with a bunch of crazies.


Before joining a team, you should anonymously watch at least one game from the other sideline if possible.


----------



## crush (May 12, 2021)

outside! said:


> Before joining a team, you should anonymously watch at least one game from the other sideline if possible.


Excellent sage advice Outside   I will be sitting with my wife with tape over my mouth and taking in the last year of 12 years of club soccer if you see me next year


----------



## soccerchaffeur (May 12, 2021)

Slammers is like Starbucks...they're on every corner. On top of that, (and forgive the wording)none of them are the same. CDA Slammers BFE is not Slammers Newport.


----------



## Woodwork (May 12, 2021)

Any team that forces you to a massive club-wide tryout event rather than allowing the player to slot into a training.


----------



## timbuck (May 12, 2021)

soccerchaffeur said:


> Slammers is like Starbucks...they're on every corner. On top of that, (and forgive the wording)none of them are the same. CDA Slammers BFE is not Slammers Newport.


We are pretty close to there being a seperate league for each mega club
Slammers
Surf
Legends
Pats
Blues
West Coast


----------



## Messi>CR7 (May 12, 2021)

Woodwork said:


> Any team that forces you to a massive club-wide tryout event rather than allowing the player to slot into a training.


There is actually a very good reason why some of them do this.  They don't want to constantly disrupt the current teams' practices since many tryouts are taking place weeks (or even months) before the season is over.  So the clubs do a massive tryout first, then invite just a few back for a more dedicated session.

You can certainly argue tryouts should not take place until after the season is over, but I think we're already too late for that conversation.


----------



## pokergod (May 12, 2021)

Messi>CR7 said:


> There is actually a very good reason why some of them do this.  They don't want to constantly disrupt the current teams' practices since many tryouts are taking place weeks (or even months) before the season is over.  So the clubs do a massive tryout first, then invite just a few back for a more dedicated session.
> 
> You can certainly argue tryouts should not take place until after the season is over, but I think we're already too late for that conversation.


By the way, after 2-3 years of club soccer, who goes to tryouts other than ayso players and existing players that are staying?  If you are leaving, then you know which teams you like and attend some practices.  Every player that has joined our team for a few years has come to practice based on coaches rep and team success.  After a practice or two they get offer or recommendation for other team.


----------



## Woodwork (May 12, 2021)

pokergod said:


> By the way, after 2-3 years of club soccer, who goes to tryouts other than ayso players and existing players that are staying?  If you are leaving, then you know which teams you like and attend some practices.  Every player that has joined our team for a few years has come to practice based on coaches rep and team success.  After a practice or two they get offer or recommendation for other team.


Very few kids ever stand out at cattle calls.  Even then, it tells me 0 about your team.  It just shows me that the coach has no problem wasting hours of my time at a one-side, limited value event.


----------



## GT45 (May 14, 2021)

Woodwork said:


> Any team that forces you to a massive club-wide tryout event rather than allowing the player to slot into a training.


In some cases there are way too many kids who want to come tryout. At some point the coach wants to coach their team. It is disruptive always having a new player(s) in a training session. What if the coach wants to work on set pieces and finishing today? Nope. Can't do it because we got to give another kid a look today. It disrupts your team.


----------



## timbuck (May 14, 2021)

GT45 said:


> In some cases there are way too many kids who want to come tryout. At some point the coach wants to coach their team. It is disruptive always having a new player(s) in a training session. What if the coach wants to work on set pieces and finishing today? Nope. Can't do it because we got to give another kid a look today. It disrupts your team.


That's why we need to have a better defined tryout period.  You shouldn't have random kids showing up if you are preparing for a season game or tournament.  But it happens all the time.
Is the coach going to focus more on what the team needs to be successful on the weekend or on impressing a new player/parent with an amazing array of cones and equipment.


----------



## Woodwork (May 14, 2021)

timbuck said:


> That's why we need to have a better defined tryout period.  You shouldn't have random kids showing up if you are preparing for a season game or tournament.  But it happens all the time.
> Is the coach going to focus more on what the team needs to be successful on the weekend or on impressing a new player/parent with an amazing array of cones and equipment.


It really isn't that hard to tell inquiring players to come to a practice in a down week.  I'm not advocating an open door policy.  Just that the Club-Wide cattle calls are a waste of time for the players and parent.  For coaches, they might see the rare player that stands out at one of these things... but then they ALWAYS want to see them at an actual practice.  These cattle calls are extremely limited value for coaches and basically no value for players/parents.


----------



## outside! (May 14, 2021)

Woodwork said:


> It really isn't that hard to tell inquiring players to come to a practice in a down week.  I'm not advocating an open door policy.  Just that the Club-Wide cattle calls are a waste of time for the players and parent.  For coaches, they might see the rare player that stands out at one of these things... but then they ALWAYS want to see them at an actual practice.  These cattle calls are extremely limited value for coaches and basically no value for players/parents.


Cattle call tryouts are actually great for filling the rosters of the lower level teams. Parents should still ask for an individual tryout with the team before signing the check.


----------



## outside! (May 14, 2021)

The number one thing about club soccer that drives me nuts is the multiple different leagues that claim to be top level. Top level teams should rarely have to leave Southern California for games. Lower level teams should never leave the state for games.


----------



## Grace T. (May 14, 2021)

The end of the mask wars will be a nasty as the beginning as people find themselves on flipped sides.  Those that support the new Biden white house position will be the ones saying they are pro science where before they were labeled the Karens for ranting in public about not wearing the masks.  Those that oppose the new policy will be labelled antiscience and now find themselves on the ranting end of things. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1393304549675393033


----------



## Grace T. (May 14, 2021)

p.s. if airplanes are so dangerous that they are the main exception to the mask rules, does that mean all the studies they hired to try to  prove airplanes were safe for travel because of the filtration systems were just bunk????


----------



## Grace T. (May 14, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> p.s. if airplanes are so dangerous that they are the main exception to the mask rules, does that mean all the studies they hired to try to  prove airplanes were safe for travel because of the filtration systems were just bunk????


sorry again wrong thread!  apologies


----------



## crush (May 14, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> The end of the mask wars will be a nasty as the beginning as people find themselves on flipped sides.  Those that support the new Biden white house position will be the ones saying they are pro science where before they were labeled the Karens for ranting in public about not wearing the masks.  Those that oppose the new policy will be labelled antiscience and now find themselves on the ranting end of things.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1393304549675393033


Oh my.  Gee, I wonder why I hated school so much.  I saw this earlier and had to breath slow for one hour before I came back.  School needs a big redo as well.


----------



## crush (May 14, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> sorry again wrong thread!  apologies


Teachers are like life coaches and she needs to go


----------



## mlx (May 15, 2021)

This drives me nuts. Team admins not updating scores, and SCDSL not caring nor making them do it for some reason... Scores remain blank for weeks and some times never get updated. Can't freaking determine if son's team is first, second or third....


----------



## Giesbock (May 26, 2021)

Turning this what drives me nuts thread around for a sec...

My daughter’s team scrimmaged a younger boys team the other day. Swift, skilled players, and saavy parents cheering for BOTH teams, recognizing standout moments from all the players and gently heckling the boys when one of the girls got the best of them.  Final score:
4-1 with a dose of fun, mutual respect and comraderie.  

Low leverage situation makes for the opposite of wound-to-tight club games!


----------



## Grace T. (May 26, 2021)

Giesbock said:


> Turning this what drives me nuts thread around for a sec...
> 
> My daughter’s team scrimmaged a younger boys team the other day. Swift, skilled players, and saavy parents cheering for BOTH teams, recognizing standout moments from all the players and gently heckling the boys when one of the girls got the best of them.  Final score:
> 4-1 with a dose of fun, mutual respect and comraderie.
> ...


So don't leave us in suspense...who won?

(yeah, I realize there's a hidden meaning to my question).


----------



## Giesbock (May 26, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> So don't leave us in suspense...who won?
> 
> (yeah, I realize there's a hidden meaning to my question).


Boys won.. .


----------



## Grace T. (May 26, 2021)

Giesbock said:


> Boys won.. .


Starting at U10 or U11 that's more often than not the case unless there's at least 2 years and/or levels (whatever combination) between them. YMMV


----------



## N00B (May 26, 2021)

Giesbock said:


> Turning this what drives me nuts thread around for a sec...
> 
> My daughter’s team scrimmaged a younger boys team the other day. Swift, skilled players, and saavy parents cheering for BOTH teams, recognizing standout moments from all the players and gently heckling the boys when one of the girls got the best of them.  Final score:
> 4-1 with a dose of fun, mutual respect and comraderie.
> ...


Was this in a community based club? (Loaded question also)

My assumption is that it was or there would have been other scrimmage pairing availability.

That said, you either have a great community or intra-club dynamic that promotes respect.  Kudos!


----------



## Giesbock (May 27, 2021)

N00B said:


> Was this in a community based club? (Loaded question also)
> 
> My assumption is that it was or there would have been other scrimmage pairing availability.
> 
> That said, you either have a great community or intra-club dynamic that promotes respect.  Kudos!


I don’t know much about how the scrimmage was arranged other than linkage between coaches. Girls side a GA squad. Boys were a team from Anaheim.


----------



## focomoso (May 28, 2021)

Giesbock said:


> Turning this what drives me nuts thread around for a sec...
> 
> My daughter’s team scrimmaged a younger boys team the other day. Swift, skilled players, and saavy parents cheering for BOTH teams, recognizing standout moments from all the players and gently heckling the boys when one of the girls got the best of them.  Final score:
> 4-1 with a dose of fun, mutual respect and comraderie.
> ...


Were they from the same club? We do that occasionally and it's usually pretty low-pressure / fun for all.


----------



## Keepermom2 (May 30, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> That has been my experience, as well. The GK parents tend to be the most over the top parents. Not sure why


LOL.  As a parent of a goalkeeper let me explain...you sit there as a parent cheering your child for making an incredible save that involved them putting their face in front of kicking feet while scared to death they will soon have to replace teeth, and/or get a concussion, and/or a permanent scar on their face or worse.     You know the ball that went in the goal was from the mistake that the defender left the back bar at the last second on a corner kick yet it is highly unlikely any other parent knows what happened.  You know every technical aspect of the position from sitting at hours of trainings for years so you know what was just a good ball in the goal, what just requires more experience, or you know your kid made a mistake while other people that don't understand the position think every goal in is a goalkeeper mistake.   You can tell by your kid's body language they are beating themselves up for it and all you want to do is yell that you are human and young, mistakes are part of learning,  and if you keep focusing on the one that got past you are going to miss the next one.  You also want to yell at that ignorant coach that fails to recognize the position requires mental grit like no other position so saying stupid shit prior to a penalty kick or after a mistake while in a game  is best done at practice .....yet you can't do any of that for obvious reasons.

Over the years I have become calmer mostly because I stopped drinking caffeine before games and my daughter finally has a coach that gets it mostly because he was a goalkeeper.   None the less I kick the imaginary ball while sitting in my chair, coach my daughter to myself (yes I talk to myself), and try to film her only to get videos of the grass at my feet.  Fortunately I have some mental blackout when she is pummeled by the other team so by the time I am able to process what has occurred, it is too late to yell at anyone.

Most importantly....it takes a nut job to love the position enough to sacrifice themselves to the level they do so it would stand to reason their parents are most likely nut jobs as well!


----------



## crush (May 30, 2021)

Keepermom2 said:


> LOL.  As a parent of a goalkeeper let me explain...you sit there as a parent cheering your child for making an incredible save that involved them putting their face in front of kicking feet while scared to death they will soon have to replace teeth, and/or get a concussion, and/or a permanent scar on their face or worse.     You know the ball that went in the goal was from the mistake that the defender left the back bar at the last second on a corner kick yet it is highly unlikely any other parent knows what happened.  You know every technical aspect of the position from sitting at hours of trainings for years so you know what was just a good ball in the goal, what just requires more experience, or you know your kid made a mistake while other people that don't understand the position think every goal in is a goalkeeper mistake.   You can tell by your kid's body language they are beating themselves up for it and all you want to do is yell that you are human and young, mistakes are part of learning,  and if you keep focusing on the one that got past you are going to miss the next one.  You also want to yell at that ignorant coach that fails to recognize the position requires mental grit like no other position so saying stupid shit prior to a penalty kick or after a mistake while in a game  is best done at practice .....yet you can't do any of that for obvious reasons.
> 
> Over the years I have become calmer mostly because I stopped drinking caffeine before games and my daughter finally has a coach that gets it mostly because he was a goalkeeper.   None the less I kick the imaginary ball while sitting in my chair, coach my daughter to myself (yes I talk to myself), and try to film her only to get videos of the grass at my feet.  Fortunately I have some mental blackout when she is pummeled by the other team so by the time I am able to process what has occurred, it is too late to yell at anyone.
> 
> Most importantly....it takes a nut job to love the position enough to sacrifice themselves to the level they do so it would stand to reason their parents are most likely nut jobs as well!


Hahahahahaha, I love this and it made my day.  I was GK back in the day and I would give up my body to save the day for my mates.  One game, it got real chippie.  I one crazy kid back in the day and it makes sense why I played the position.  My adopted mommy was nuts too for adopting and foster caring for 8 kids.  I forgot to mention she ran a rest home for older people whose kids didn;t like so my mom helped them instead.


----------



## Grace T. (May 30, 2021)

Keepermom2 said:


> LOL.  As a parent of a goalkeeper let me explain...you sit there as a parent cheering your child for making an incredible save that involved them putting their face in front of kicking feet while scared to death they will soon have to replace teeth, and/or get a concussion, and/or a permanent scar on their face or worse.     You know the ball that went in the goal was from the mistake that the defender left the back bar at the last second on a corner kick yet it is highly unlikely any other parent knows what happened.  You know every technical aspect of the position from sitting at hours of trainings for years so you know what was just a good ball in the goal, what just requires more experience, or you know your kid made a mistake while other people that don't understand the position think every goal in is a goalkeeper mistake.   You can tell by your kid's body language they are beating themselves up for it and all you want to do is yell that you are human and young, mistakes are part of learning,  and if you keep focusing on the one that got past you are going to miss the next one.  You also want to yell at that ignorant coach that fails to recognize the position requires mental grit like no other position so saying stupid shit prior to a penalty kick or after a mistake while in a game  is best done at practice .....yet you can't do any of that for obvious reasons.
> 
> Over the years I have become calmer mostly because I stopped drinking caffeine before games and my daughter finally has a coach that gets it mostly because he was a goalkeeper.   None the less I kick the imaginary ball while sitting in my chair, coach my daughter to myself (yes I talk to myself), and try to film her only to get videos of the grass at my feet.  Fortunately I have some mental blackout when she is pummeled by the other team so by the time I am able to process what has occurred, it is too late to yell at anyone.
> 
> Most importantly....it takes a nut job to love the position enough to sacrifice themselves to the level they do so it would stand to reason their parents are most likely nut jobs as well!


In addition to the good ball and experience sometimes it’s just height as they are growing. The first couple years in the big goal are painful.   Even the tallest of boy keepers can’t yet cover the corners and a favorite tactic of coaches at that age is smack it over the keeper instead of on the ground. But when the keeper fills in the goal 3 years later those strikers are in for a nasty surprise that they do know how to hit ground shots to the corner and the keepers just tip it over


----------



## mlx (May 31, 2021)

Oh, I have another one, maybe this is just OCD. Why would teams have their coaches last name in their "official" name?

e.g. "LA Buttfaces B05 "Gomez""

That bothers me to no end. Clubs should have naming standards if they have more than one team in the same age group.

For example:
"LA Buttfaces B05 Gold"
"LA Buttfaces B05 Silver"

Or
"LA Buttfaces B05 Premier"
"LA Buttfaces B05 Elite"

Or something. But having the freaking last name is annoying.


----------



## Soccermom18 (May 31, 2021)

mlx said:


> Oh, I have another one, maybe this is just OCD. Why would teams have their coaches last name in their "official" name?
> 
> e.g. "LA Buttfaces B05 "Gomez""
> 
> ...


I would like to add that I would prefer it to just say
B05 Academy
B05 Flight 1
B05 Flight 2

The colors vary so much from club to club that one clubs blue academy is another clubs flight 3.


----------



## pokergod (May 31, 2021)

Soccermom18 said:


> I would like to add that I would prefer it to just say
> B05 Academy
> B05 Flight 1
> B05 Flight 2
> ...


I think we need more transparency.  I propose:
B05 Really good players and team.
B05 Farm system-- possibilities and potential.
B05 We are stealing your money and you should be playing AYSO and this so called development coach is on probation for something really bad that happened last year so was stuck with this crap team.


----------



## Yousername (May 31, 2021)

I think the LA Buttfaces is a totally reasonable name on their own merit, and I really hope this club takes off. Will their logo contain the poop emoji?



mlx said:


> Oh, I have another one, maybe this is just OCD. Why would teams have their coaches last name in their "official" name?
> 
> e.g. "LA Buttfaces B05 "Gomez""
> 
> ...


----------



## Soccermom18 (May 31, 2021)

pokergod said:


> I think we need more transparency.  I propose:
> B05 Really good players and team.
> B05 Farm system-- possibilities and potential.
> B05 We are stealing your money and you should be playing AYSO and this so called development coach is on probation for something really bad that happened last year so was stuck with this crap team.


I would agree that this system is accurate!!


----------



## Chelsea dad g09 (Jun 8, 2021)

Have another one...teams that get mad when other teams try to sign their players when at the same time, trying to get players from another team. The hypocrisy is amazing.


----------



## focomoso (Jun 9, 2021)

Soccermom18 said:


> I would like to add that I would prefer it to just say
> B05 Academy
> B05 Flight 1
> B05 Flight 2
> ...


This would work for academy or ECNL, but the flights and colors (gold, silver, ...) change from year to year, so this might get confusing. Some clubs may have two teams in the same bracket as well.


----------



## Woodwork (Jun 9, 2021)

focomoso said:


> This would work for academy or ECNL, but the flights and colors (gold, silver, ...) change from year to year, so this might get confusing. Some clubs may have two teams in the same bracket as well.


How about when they name their team B05 Gold (plays in bronze).


----------



## GLangevinito (Jun 9, 2021)

By far the most annoying thing for me with club soccer are the parents who treat a U11 league match like it's the Champion's League final and feel like they have the right to scream at a 13 year old AR because they think he got the throw-in call wrong. Fucking chill, people. My son started reffing at 12 only to quit during his first season because a rec coach screamed in his face. These were 8 year olds wearing colored Hanes T-shirts playing on a gopher infested middle school field. Had I been there I would have picked up a charge.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jun 9, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> By far the most annoying thing for me with club soccer are the parents who treat a U11 league match like it's the Champion's League final and feel like they have the right to scream at a 13 year old AR because they think he got the throw-in call wrong. Fucking chill, people. My son started reffing at 12 only to quit during his first season because a rec coach screamed in his face. These were 8 year olds wearing colored Hanes T-shirts playing on a gopher infested middle school field. Had I been there I would have picked up a charge.


100% agree with this.   Horrible parent behavior ruins the game and experience for the kids


----------



## NewUser27 (Jun 9, 2021)

Parents that use the youth soccer ranking in conversation


----------



## pokergod (Jun 10, 2021)

NewUser27 said:


> Parents that use the youth soccer ranking in conversation


But then how are we supposed to let strangers know if we are good parents or not?


----------



## NewUser27 (Jun 10, 2021)

I see this alot in the 2009-2012 group right now


----------



## OrangeCountyDad (Jun 14, 2021)

NorCalUSN said:


> I never realized there was some rule about where you sit during the game.


I recall seeing it from CalSouth in the past, in writing where to sit, but I can't find it now.  some tournaments very specifically list where spectators can sit, usually across from the bench, and some very specifically paint a DMZ at the center line.

i've been in the situation tho of sitting away from toxic people or in the shade, regardless of what side I'm on, and as long as i'm quiet most referees/coaches/other parents don't care.


----------



## OrangeCountyDad (Jun 14, 2021)

it drives me crazy when club soccer killed my daughter's passion and enthusiasm for the game.  she went from living and dying for every game, strongly considering playing in college. to just wanting to be done with club and declining to play state cup because the team was just awful to her and the coach didn't care.


----------



## MamaBear5 (Jun 14, 2021)

OrangeCountyDad said:


> it drives me crazy when club soccer killed my daughter's passion and enthusiasm for the game.  she went from living and dying for every game, strongly considering playing in college. to just wanting to be done with club and declining to play state cup because the team was just awful to her and the coach didn't care.


So sorry to hear this. Hopefully you can convince her to try another team where the culture will be better. I used to think that a better culture didn't exist but we finally found a team last year - now that there are the usual changes taking place I really hope the culture doesn't change.

My latest thing that I laugh at is all the teams advertising a "pathway to ... (ecnl, mls next, ga etc) . Very few players will get promoted in club in my experience.


----------



## OrangeCountyDad (Jun 14, 2021)

MamaBear5 said:


> So sorry to hear this. Hopefully you can convince her to try another team where the culture will be better.


after 2020, and then a 2021 that wasn't fun, and we'd already paid all the fees, it was mostly a life lesson of tolerating people who don't deserve it.  Just like going to work every day.  She's off to college in 2 months and is looking forward to finding a intermural team on campus or a local adult team.


----------



## Technician72 (Jun 14, 2021)

OrangeCountyDad said:


> it drives me crazy when club soccer killed my daughter's passion and enthusiasm for the game.  she went from living and dying for every game, strongly considering playing in college. to just wanting to be done with club and declining to play state cup because the team was just awful to her and the coach didn't care.


This one hits close to home. My DD called it quits last season after COVID hit.

DD spent nearly 7 seasons with the same coach / trainer who mentally broke her down the last two seasons she played ECNL. We pulled her and threw a hail mary transferring to a new club looking for a change in culture. It didn't work out as the new team was still too "close to" the situation and it didn't really amount to a fresh start. There was resentment from coach / parents who proactively reached out to her new teammates families to ensure her nightmare continued.

There are so many aspect of what happened that makes me realize that some adults really have not experienced adversity or consequences for their actions in life. As an adult who has had his share of a$$ whoopings growing up, you learn real fast that once you cross certain lines, there are consequences that will come your way, and to see adults cross those lines nonchalantly with no remorse was truly eye opening.

My favorite (sarcasm) was her ex-coach / trainer texting one of the parents on the new team to get updates and give orders on how to make things difficult for my DD. It definitely did not surprise me that the ex-coach did this but the parent who was on the new team certainly gave me something to remember.

Lesson learned all around, and onward and upwards. My wife and I are fully invested in making this a teachable moment for our DD and have embraced her desire to start fresh in other sports / activities.


----------



## crush (Jun 14, 2021)

OrangeCountyDad said:


> after 2020, and then a 2021 that wasn't fun, and we'd already paid all the fees, it was mostly a life lesson of tolerating people who don't deserve it.  Just like going to work every day.  She's off to college in 2 months and is looking forward to finding a intermural team on campus or a local adult team.


So many girls are burned out by all the lies and misinformation the last few years.  Truly sad what some men will do to make money off the hard work of females.  These girls will be moms someday and I bet most will stay clear of what some of them had to endure unless sweeping changes happen asap. My dd is going to give it one more try because she loves to play the game and have fun with other girls playing soccer.  If her team is booted from the so-called top league, well then she will go play with the tier 2 players.  At this point, my advice is to find a team for 12 months and hope all goes well and the lying is limited to just a little white lie and not a big fat lie.  One of the head honcho Docheads back in the day told her if she left his club she will be black listed so college might not in the cards for her.  She's find and is surfing as I speak.  The good in all this she never had to live in a girls home for girls soccer players or play 12 months out of the year and I didnt have to spend $15,000 traveling all of the country.  This is insane!!!


----------



## crush (Jun 14, 2021)

Technician72 said:


> This one hits close to home. My DD called it quits last season after COVID hit.
> 
> DD spent nearly 7 seasons with the same coach / trainer who mentally broke her down the last two seasons she played ECNL. We pulled her and threw a hail mary transferring to a new club looking for a change in culture. It didn't work out as the new team was still too "close to" the situation and it didn't really amount to a fresh start. There was resentment from coach / parents who proactively reached out to her new teammates families to ensure her nightmare continued.
> 
> ...


That sucks bro!!!  I'm truly sorry to hear that.  My dd had spies after her watching her ever social media post, all before high school.  Had one top coach tell me he knows everything my dd is doing.  He told me he had spies, no joke.  I'm telling you all, you can;t treat girls like boys, end of story.  Karma be coming soon!!!  Anyway, we ALL learned from this Tech.  I truly love you man


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jun 14, 2021)

crush said:


> That sucks bro!!!  I'm truly sorry to hear that.  My dd had spies after her watching her ever social media post, all before high school.  Had one top coach tell me he knows everything my dd is doing.  He told me he had spies, no joke.  I'm telling you all, you can;t treat girls like boys, end of story.  Karma be coming soon!!!  Anyway, we ALL learned from this Tech.  I truly love you man


 Since this is round 2 for me (older boys just graduated and dropped soccer when they got to HS).  

My motto with my little girl is to enjoy her playing soccer regardless of the level.  Push her to get private training  but only if she wants to do it on that given week.   Finally, expect her to quit any month  and be ready to embrace any of her new sports or other activities.


----------



## crush (Jun 14, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Since this is round 2 for me (older boys just graduated and dropped soccer when they got to HS).
> 
> My motto with my little girl is to enjoy her playing soccer regardless of the level.  Push her to get private training  but only if she wants to do it on that given week.   Finally, expect her to quit any month  and be ready to embrace any of her new sports or other activities.


My motto was spoken to my baby girl back in 8th grade.  She was told a by Mr. Boza Dochead that if she left his league that she will be giving up her chance at this and that.  I'm not here anymore to bring up the obvious.  it's a fact Jack, many 2021s and 2022 and some 2023s have had it very difficult these last 15 months.  I'm super serious.  Transfer portal for college is through the roof.  All that means is the coaches have more to look at for next season.  Plus all girls can come back for another season.  Grad students as well.  These are very very times.


----------



## Reggie (Jun 14, 2021)

OrangeCountyDad said:


> I recall seeing it from CalSouth in the past, in writing where to sit, but I can't find it now.  some tournaments very specifically list where spectators can sit, usually across from the bench, and some very specifically paint a DMZ at the center line.
> 
> i've been in the situation tho of sitting away from toxic people or in the shade, regardless of what side I'm on, and as long as i'm quiet most referees/coaches/other parents don't care.


Leagues have, in the past, specified where parents sit; CSL posted rules had the team and parents sitting on the same side of the field with the centerline separating them; SCDSL rule was both teams on one side of the field with the centerline separating them, with the parents across the field facing their team.
If you played a tournament hosted by an SCDSL club, the rules reflected that set-up and the same for CSL hosted tournaments.
After 12 years as a club soccer parent, I'm still not sure if one is better than the other!


----------



## Chelsea dad g09 (Jun 15, 2021)

Technician72 said:


> This one hits close to home. My DD called it quits last season after COVID hit.
> 
> DD spent nearly 7 seasons with the same coach / trainer who mentally broke her down the last two seasons she played ECNL. We pulled her and threw a hail mary transferring to a new club looking for a change in culture. It didn't work out as the new team was still too "close to" the situation and it didn't really amount to a fresh start. There was resentment from coach / parents who proactively reached out to her new teammates families to ensure her nightmare continued.
> 
> ...


Dude your dd's situation honestly sucks and its horrible that there are so many relatable stories involved with youth soccer. I've been accused of a lot of things with my dd's last team and definitely understand the frustration involved with parents who obviously had no consequences for their actions when they were younger. Just have to believe that karma's a bitch and the bridges that those parents are burning now are not going to be there later when they need to cross them.


----------



## OrangeCountyDad (Jun 15, 2021)

Reggie said:


> Leagues have, in the past, specified where parents sit; CSL posted rules had the team and parents sitting on the same side of the field with the centerline separating them; SCDSL rule was both teams on one side of the field with the centerline separating them, with the parents across the field facing their team.
> If you played a tournament hosted by an SCDSL club, the rules reflected that set-up and the same for CSL hosted tournaments.
> After 12 years as a club soccer parent, I'm still not sure if one is better than the other!


You're right, it was SCDSL that had the rule, not CalSouth.


----------



## outside! (Jun 15, 2021)

Technician72 said:


> This one hits close to home. My DD called it quits last season after COVID hit.
> 
> DD spent nearly 7 seasons with the same coach / trainer who mentally broke her down the last two seasons she played ECNL. We pulled her and threw a hail mary transferring to a new club looking for a change in culture. It didn't work out as the new team was still too "close to" the situation and it didn't really amount to a fresh start. There was resentment from coach / parents who proactively reached out to her new teammates families to ensure her nightmare continued.
> 
> ...


That honestly sucks and I am very sorry to hear that happened to your daughter. Having said that, what are you doing to make sure there are consequences for this coach? Would it be possible to name and shame them on the forum by saying something non-commital about how your daughter had a bad experience with this coach/team/club? Did you get a screen shot of the text? If so, did you report the coach to that club's DOC and board? Heck, I would post it on the club's social media feed as a comment.


----------



## watfly (Jun 15, 2021)

outside! said:


> That honestly sucks and I am very sorry to hear that happened to your daughter. Having said that, what are you doing to make sure there are consequences for this coach? Would it be possible to name and shame them on the forum by saying something non-commital about how your daughter had a bad experience with this coach/team/club? Did you get a screen shot of the text? If so, did you report the coach to that club's DOC and board? Heck, I would post it on the club's social media feed as a comment.


The details are not important, but my son had a DA coach a few years ago who was a complete a-hole and destroyed my son's passion for soccer.  I reported him to the club president with specific examples of his behavior.   Other families with the exception of one, who were onboard with reporting him backed out for fear of retribution to their kid.  The club did nothing, despite ample evidence from the two families and the annual coaches survey from other families (they claimed since the surveys were anonymous they couldn't follow up on complaints...WTF) .   We left the club, but my kid was cut anyway and we weren't going to reward the club with fees for playing with a lower team.   He is in a great spot now and has finally regained his passion for the game, but it took a couple years.   I'm not a fan of publicly shaming clubs or coaches, or anyone you have a dispute with.  I just think its in poor taste.  I think you should deal with the individuals directly and move on.  Interestingly, the co-coach with the a-hole just recently offered my son a spot to play up on his ECNL team.   You never want to burn bridges, particularly in youth soccer, since clubs and coaches are always changing.


----------



## outside! (Jun 15, 2021)

watfly said:


> The details are not important, but my son had a DA coach a few years ago who was a complete a-hole and destroyed my son's passion for soccer.  I reported him to the club president with specific examples of his behavior.   Other families with the exception of one, who were onboard with reporting him backed out for fear of retribution to their kid.  The club did nothing, despite ample evidence from the two families and the annual coaches survey from other families (they claimed since the surveys were anonymous they couldn't follow up on complaints...WTF) .   We left the club, but my kid was cut anyway and we weren't going to reward the club with fees for playing with a lower team.   He is in a great spot now and has finally regained his passion for the game, but it took a couple years.   I'm not a fan of publicly shaming clubs or coaches, or anyone you have a dispute with.  I just think its in poor taste.  I think you should deal with the individuals directly and move on.  Interestingly, the co-coach with the a-hole just recently offered my son a spot to play up on his ECNL team.   You never want to burn bridges, particularly in youth soccer, since clubs and coaches are always changing.


I can respect your position, but if you get to a point where you are done with soccer, sharing information via these forums is the only power we parents have. That is why I freely vent on coaches that in my opinion do not treat children with respect (Baker, Ocampo, Lemay) on this forum.


----------



## watfly (Jun 15, 2021)

outside! said:


> I can respect your position, but if you get to a point where you are done with soccer, sharing information via these forums is the only power we parents have. That is why I freely vent on coaches that in my opinion do not treat children with respect (Baker, Ocampo, Lemay) on this forum.


I get it and I should clarify, I'm happy to let anyone know who the coach or club is if they ask privately.  I just don't put it on public broadcast.  I know some of the names you mention are already well known publicly for their antics, seems they've earned that "honor".

I'm 100% in favor of parents taking back the power.  Unfortunately, some problem parents with their whining have made it difficult for other parents to ask legitimate questions and have Coach/Club take the questions seriously (particularly when Coach/Club think parents are the problem, and not the customer, in youth soccer)


----------



## pokergod (Jun 15, 2021)

watfly said:


> The details are not important, but my son had a DA coach a few years ago who was a complete a-hole and destroyed my son's passion for soccer.  I reported him to the club president with specific examples of his behavior.   Other families with the exception of one, who were onboard with reporting him backed out for fear of retribution to their kid.  The club did nothing, despite ample evidence from the two families and the annual coaches survey from other families (they claimed since the surveys were anonymous they couldn't follow up on complaints...WTF) .   We left the club, but my kid was cut anyway and we weren't going to reward the club with fees for playing with a lower team.   He is in a great spot now and has finally regained his passion for the game, but it took a couple years.   I'm not a fan of publicly shaming clubs or coaches, or anyone you have a dispute with.  I just think its in poor taste.  I think you should deal with the individuals directly and move on.  Interestingly, the co-coach with the a-hole just recently offered my son a spot to play up on his ECNL team.   You never want to burn bridges, particularly in youth soccer, since clubs and coaches are always changing.


I think the concern, and I'm guilty too, is that we all post ambiguous posts about certain negative issues/people with the clubs.  But, if we didn't, then we could warn others of the bad actors.  I guess everyone who has a kid graduating could drop the names and issues without fear of retribution???
It is awful reading these posts and what some of these kids/families have been through.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jun 15, 2021)

pokergod said:


> I think the concern, and I'm guilty too, is that we all post ambiguous posts about certain negative issues/people with the clubs.  But, if we didn't, then we could warn others of the bad actors.  I guess everyone who has a kid graduating could drop the names and issues without fear of retribution???
> It is awful reading these posts and what some of these kids/families have been through.


I think part of the knowledge share should be to focus on what to watch out for as we all look for a team for our kids.  For example watch out for: 
- screaming coach during games 
- parents that don’t talk to each other 
- team keeps having many players quit the team 
- bad behavior on the sidelines from coaches or parents 
- how many players get promoted to the higher teams.   

It’s probably not enough but it’s a start.   I made a mistake 7 years ago to get my boys to join a team where the coach had a high performing team but never went to see his games.  The coach was a screamer and would often get red carded.


----------



## GLangevinito (Jun 15, 2021)

crush said:


> My motto was spoken to my baby girl back in 8th grade.  She was told a by Mr. Boza Dochead that if she left his league that she will be giving up her chance at this and that.  I'm not here anymore to bring up the obvious.  it's a fact Jack, many 2021s and 2022 and some 2023s have had it very difficult these last 15 months.  I'm super serious.  Transfer portal for college is through the roof.  All that means is the coaches have more to look at for next season.  Plus all girls can come back for another season.  Grad students as well.  These are very very times.


People are just beginning to grasp how tough it will be for 2022, 2023, and 2024 players. That extra year of eligibility for all athletes effectively means that 5 years of players are competing for 4 years of scholarships. For 4 years, coaches won't know for certain how many scholarships they have because they don't know how many seniors will elect to play 5 years. And while they COULD tell those players they don't have a scholarship for them, most coaches will not do that for a player who has given them 4 years. 

Hit hardest are those programs who over-recruit and count on players who don't get playtime transferring out. UCLA, UNC - these programs bring in 10+ kids every year. You do the math. 

It puts Div 2 and T2 Div 1 coaches in an interesting spot. Good players are being squeezed for scholarship dollars and playtime, and may be receptive to hearing from these coaches who can provide that. Might be an equalizer and we might see good D1 talent dropping down a level in the next 4 years.


----------



## Alphaomega (Jun 15, 2021)

Things that drive me nuts......

1-parents who constantly talk about how great of a soccer player their child is to other parents
2- parents who constantly yell the whole game  especially at showcases how great their child did,example (insert name after every compliment) great kick , good pass, good move, good throw in etc.. 
3-parents who do nothing for their child but expect other parents on the team to take their child to every practice, games even out of state while they sit at home or are out doing things for themselves. But what drives me even more nuts are the suckers who fall for the lies
4- parents who keep their child on a team with 22 rostered and play scrap minutes just so they can say their child is on an “Elite”team
5- coaches who play favoritism
6- when new players come to a team and the existing players refuse the pass the new players the ball or they are not welcoming to the new players
7- when coaches are influenced by a manager or parent
8- when refs fail to control a game and players get injured.
9- when parents say tasteless comments to opposing players
10- when a parent asks for a scholarship but is out taking vacations and walking around with expensive name brand stuff 
11- cocky coaches 
12- parents who sit on opposing side and cheer loudly
13- players who take cheap shots at other players during the game and post it online. 14- the proud parents who record those moments and condone their child posting it


----------



## Eagle33 (Jun 18, 2021)

crush said:


> So many girls are burned out by all the lies and misinformation the last few years.  Truly sad what some men will do to make money off the hard work of females.  These girls will be moms someday and I bet most will stay clear of what some of them had to endure unless sweeping changes happen asap. My dd is going to give it one more try because she loves to play the game and have fun with other girls playing soccer.  If her team is booted from the so-called top league, well then she will go play with the tier 2 players.  At this point, my advice is to find a team for 12 months and hope all goes well and the lying is limited to just a little white lie and not a big fat lie.  One of the head honcho Docheads back in the day told her if she left his club she will be black listed so college might not in the cards for her.  She's find and is surfing as I speak.  The good in all this she never had to live in a girls home for girls soccer players or play 12 months out of the year and I didnt have to spend $15,000 traveling all of the country.  This is insane!!!


Hey I'm putting together girls 04 team, she is welcome


----------



## Chalklines (Jun 18, 2021)

Alphaomega said:


> Things that drive me nuts......
> 
> 1-parents who constantly talk about how great of a soccer player their child is to other parents
> 2- parents who constantly yell the whole game  especially at showcases how great their child did,example (insert name after every compliment) great kick , good pass, good move, good throw in etc..
> ...


6&7


----------



## outside! (Jun 21, 2021)

Chalklines said:


> 6&7


How about at ODP or ID camps, when one club has five players there, other clubs have just one. Guess who never gets passed to?


----------



## crush (Jun 21, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> Hey I'm putting together girls 04 team, she is welcome


All is good Eagle.  This is it.  The last year of youth soccer is going to be epic, just like when she was 12.  So many things to be grateful for and one is just being a father.  Peace out brah!!!


----------



## Woodwork (Jun 22, 2021)

When a tournament schedules two teams in your team's bracket for one game Friday and one game Saturday.  The other teams?  Oh they play two games  3 1/2 hours apart on Saturday.  Seems fair.


----------



## outside! (Jun 22, 2021)

When a clubs tournament schedules out of town teams for the first early AM game, but their own club teams for the 9:00 AM game. The next day, guess who gets the last time slot of group play?


----------



## USAALLTHEWAY (Jun 23, 2021)

BAIT AND SWITCH!  Certain Club notoriously sell one product and deliver a different product. Often forgetting  who is keeping them afloat. The majority of the customers won’t speak up. IMO they are worried they will be pushed out of the crew.


----------



## crush (Jun 23, 2021)

USAALLTHEWAY said:


> *BAIT AND SWITCH! * Certain Club notoriously sell one product and deliver a different product. Often forgetting  who is keeping them afloat. The majority of the customers won’t speak up. IMO they are worried they will be pushed out of the crew.


----------



## Patandpats (Jun 23, 2021)

What drives me nuts is having to fly to Dallas for MLS playoffs and there still not being a link for a schedule to a game that is supposed to be played sometime on Friday.


----------



## lafalafa (Jun 23, 2021)

Patandpats said:


> What drives me nuts is having to fly to Dallas for MLS playoffs and there still not being a link for a schedule to a game that is supposed to be played sometime on Friday.


Somewhere in the Dallas metro area named Toyota or MoneyGram unless they use Richland.   

Just pick one of the other teams it's Single elimination so who knows about the other days, showcase for some after?


----------



## Patandpats (Jun 23, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Somewhere in the Dallas metro area named Toyota or MoneyGram unless they use Richland.
> 
> Just pick one of the other teams it's Single elimination so who knows about the other days, showcase for some after?


In general my u16 has had an amazing experience in this league, but their website and general sharing of information is a joke. But we did get a webinar to learn how to increase our social media presence at the tournament.


----------



## lafalafa (Jun 23, 2021)

Patandpats said:


> In general my u16 has had an amazing experience in this league, but their website and general sharing of information is a joke. But we did get a webinar to learn how to increase our social media presence at the tournament.


Yeah my son's flight leaves tomorrow and they don't have the schedule either.   Going to be hot that's for sure so packing the frog tog, electrolyte supplements, and other hot weather items.

Good luck to your squad and player, at u19 this is the last go around for him and mates before they go off in separate directions to colleges.


----------



## Dargle (Jun 23, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Yeah my son's flight leaves tomorrow and they don't have the schedule either.   Going to be hot that's for sure so packing the frog tog, electrolyte supplements, and other hot weather items.
> 
> Good luck to your squad and player, at u19 this is the last go around for him and mates before they go off in separate directions to colleges.


They haven't posted a schedule on the website, but Tuesday they distributed the schedules to the coaches for the younger age groups that start playoff games on Friday. Not sure if that's the case for showcase games or older age groups.


----------



## Patandpats (Jun 23, 2021)

Dargle said:


> They haven't posted a schedule on the website, but Tuesday they distributed the schedules to the coaches for the younger age groups that start playoff games on Friday. Not sure if that's the case for showcase games or older age groups.


We know who we are playing, but not the field location.  Only 48 hours from kickoff so what do I expect???


----------



## Dargle (Jun 23, 2021)

Patandpats said:


> We know who we are playing, but not the field location.  Only 48 hours from kickoff so what do I expect???


We have field location and number.


----------



## Patandpats (Jun 23, 2021)

Dargle said:


> We have field location and number.


Congrats! Really shocking. Almost like someone is playing a game to see how close they can get to kickoff without publishing anything. Sure would like to know where/when our second game might be so I can make plans with relatives


----------



## Dargle (Jun 23, 2021)

Patandpats said:


> Congrats! Really shocking. Almost like someone is playing a game to see how close they can get to kickoff without publishing anything. Sure would like to know where/when our second game might be so I can make plans with relatives


Are you in playoffs or showcase?  With playoffs, we were informed when and where we play first game and second game if we win (unless there were changes to the schedule since then), but I have no idea where and when we would play if we lost.  I believe you then drop into games against the loser of another playoff game (rather than playing in the showcase with teams that didn’t qualify for playoffs), but that’s just based on the webinar info from Sunday.

It seems that the Modular 11 site is down, so perhaps that is the cause of the delay.


----------



## Patandpats (Jun 24, 2021)

Dargle said:


> Are you in playoffs or showcase?  With playoffs, we were informed when and where we play first game and second game if we win (unless there were changes to the schedule since then), but I have no idea where and when we would play if we lost.  I believe you then drop into games against the loser of another playoff game (rather than playing in the showcase with teams that didn’t qualify for playoffs), but that’s just based on the webinar info from Sunday.
> 
> It seems that the Modular 11 site is down, so perhaps that is the cause of the delay.


Playoffs.  It's starting to post now at least, but sure made reaching out to college coaches a challenge. Also no idea what will happen if they lose the first game.


----------



## Patandpats (Jun 24, 2021)

Dargle said:


> Are you in playoffs or showcase?  With playoffs, we were informed when and where we play first game and second game if we win (unless there were changes to the schedule since then), but I have no idea where and when we would play if we lost.  I believe you then drop into games against the loser of another playoff game (rather than playing in the showcase with teams that didn’t qualify for playoffs), but that’s just based on the webinar info from Sunday.
> 
> It seems that the Modular 11 site is down, so perhaps that is the cause of the delay.


Yes, would be nice to know what happens if you lose.  Also, glad I'm not u16 Albion/Nomads.  They are playing each other first playoff game.  How dumb is that? Even if it's a playoff, just move one of them up or down a line.  SoCal teams shouldn't play each other until the quarters at earliest.


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Jun 24, 2021)

It's a small thing compared to issues affecting the physical/mental health of the kids....but.....

a peev is when the ordering of games in group play at tourneys ends up being such that in the final game two teams can play a phone it in draw so they both advance.  Strategic perhaps, but not sporting.


----------



## Soccermom18 (Jun 24, 2021)

When a club sends the same age group teams to a small tournament and everyone ends up being the same bracket and they make up majority of the bracket and the lower level team gets slaughtered and the higher up team gets praised over social media for being the Champions.


----------



## outside! (Jun 25, 2021)

EvilGoalie 21 said:


> It's a small thing compared to issues affecting the physical/mental health of the kids....but.....
> 
> a peev is when the ordering of games in group play at tourneys ends up being such that in the final game two teams can play a phone it in draw so they both advance.  Strategic perhaps, but not sporting.


I personally witnessed a case where the young women on the field decided the last game of group play was not worth getting injured for (there was an injury in the first few minutes of the game). After the restart they just passed the ball around and ended in a draw. It made national news thanks to some dimwad sports writer blowing it up. No mention of the close to 100 degree temps/100 perscent humidity. No mention of the artificially compressed tournament schedule that these players had endured for years. No mention of the fact these young women would be reporting to college in a few weeks. There are times when strategic and player welfare is much more important than sporting.


----------



## GLangevinito (Jun 25, 2021)

outside! said:


> I personally witnessed a case where the young women on the field decided the last game of group play was not worth getting injured for (there was an injury in the first few minutes of the game). After the restart they just passed the ball around and ended in a draw. It made national news thanks to some dimwad sports writer blowing it up. No mention of the close to 100 degree temps/100 perscent humidity. No mention of the artificially compressed tournament schedule that these players had endured for years. No mention of the fact these young women would be reporting to college in a few weeks. There are times when strategic and player welfare is much more important than sporting.


This has happened at every level. I remember the Lightning/LAGSD/CitySC match that made it to ESPN because the teams spent 90 minutes passing it around to ensure a tie and ensure that both teams moved on. Same thing happened this last Surf Cup with 11 year old boys between TFA and Dallas Texans. 

You can always come up with a justification for cheating. Always. The other team is cheating. The games were scheduled too close together. It's hot. 

The problem is, every team when they register for the tournament is committing to play by the rules of the tournament, and to give their best to compete. To take advantage of a schedule that allows you to profit from prior match results from your group to give two teams a day off is wrong. It's cheating. The other teams didn't get a rest day on their last match. 

The simple fact is that the teams that cheated wanted to win, and didn't think that the rules should apply to them. If there are times when strategic and player welfare is more important than upholding the concepts of sportsmanship and competition, then that team shouldn't have entered that tournament.


----------



## espola (Jun 25, 2021)

outside! said:


> I personally witnessed a case where the young women on the field decided the last game of group play was not worth getting injured for (there was an injury in the first few minutes of the game). After the restart they just passed the ball around and ended in a draw. It made national news thanks to some dimwad sports writer blowing it up. No mention of the close to 100 degree temps/100 perscent humidity. No mention of the artificially compressed tournament schedule that these players had endured for years. No mention of the fact these young women would be reporting to college in a few weeks. There are times when strategic and player welfare is much more important than sporting.





GLangevinito said:


> This has happened at every level. I remember the Lightning/LAGSD/CitySC match that made it to ESPN because the teams spent 90 minutes passing it around to ensure a tie and ensure that both teams moved on. Same thing happened this last Surf Cup with 11 year old boys between TFA and Dallas Texans.
> 
> You can always come up with a justification for cheating. Always. The other team is cheating. The games were scheduled too close together. It's hot.
> 
> ...


Those two situations are not the same.


----------



## GLangevinito (Jun 25, 2021)

espola said:


> Those two situations are not the same.


We're talking about the same incident.


----------



## outside! (Jun 25, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> This has happened at every level. I remember the Lightning/LAGSD/CitySC match that made it to ESPN because the teams spent 90 minutes passing it around to ensure a tie and ensure that both teams moved on. Same thing happened this last Surf Cup with 11 year old boys between TFA and Dallas Texans.
> 
> You can always come up with a justification for cheating. Always. The other team is cheating. The games were scheduled too close together. It's hot.
> 
> ...


I was at the LAGSD game since I was at that tournament with a different team. LAGSD would have moved on even if they lost that game. The other team would have moved on unless they lost by more than 6 or 7 goals (I can't remember). They did not spend 90 minutes passing it around, they spent roughly 80 minutes. After one of the players went off with a knee injury, both teams realized that the game just did not matter. They were in that position becuase they had domitated their previous two games. This was a decision made on the field by the players. Most of the players were weeks away from reporting to college. These players had jumped through all of the hoops set up by this crazy system. The adults blew this way out of proportion and you are perpetuating it. ESPN should not have publicized this. The only reason they even had footage is because parent's of the team that had lost a previous game 6 or 7 to 0 were hoping LAGSD would stomp the other team worse so thier DD's could move on sent it to them. Those same parent raised quite a stink on the sideline and threatened the players. You weren't there and you definitely were not one of the ones hauling their butts up and down the field and enduring the threats from very poorly behaved adults. Keep you pontificating to yourself.


----------



## GLangevinito (Jun 25, 2021)

outside! said:


> I was at the LAGSD game since I was at that tournament with a different team. LAGSD would have moved on even if they lost that game. The other team would have moved on unless they lost by more than 6 or 7 goals (I can't remember). They did not spend 90 minutes passing it around, they spent roughly 80 minutes. After one of the players went off with a knee injury, both teams realized that the game just did not matter. They were in that position becuase they had domitated their previous two games. This was a decision made on the field by the players. Most of the players were weeks away from reporting to college. These players had jumped through all of the hoops set up by this crazy system. The adults blew this way out of proportion and you are perpetuating it. ESPN should not have publicized this. The only reason they even had footage is because parent's of the team that had lost a previous game 6 or 7 to 0 were hoping LAGSD would stomp the other team worse so thier DD's could move on sent it to them. Those same parent raised quite a stink on the sideline and threatened the players. You weren't there and you definitely were not one of the ones hauling their butts up and down the field and enduring the threats from very poorly behaved adults. Keep you pontificating to yourself.


This past Thursday during, the final game of the group stages of the Girls U18 US Youth Soccer National Championships in Frisco, Texas, it appears that two teams, Carlsbad Elite (CA-S) and Ambassadors FC (OH-N), may have colluded to finish the match in the draw so that both teams can advance.  Top Drawer Soccer’s Will Parchman reported on the game and supplied video showing both teams making zero effort to score, or even play the game.  The video shows defenders simply passing the ball back and forth for several minutes with no opponents within 20 yards.  The defenders then played the ball to the other end of the field where their teammates openly move out of the ball’s path until the opposing defenders collect it and begin their passing game between them with no pressure from their opponent.  It was clear that neither team made an effort to attempt to win game, being as they needed only a draw to advance to Saturday’s semi-finals. 

Ambassadors’ coach Caleb Fortune, in a statement, says the lack luster performance was due to the extreme heat in the Texas sun, which exceeded 100 degrees most of the week.  However, from the video it can be clearly be seen that, regardless of the heat, there was a concerted effort by both teams to not attempt to actually play the game in a competitive manner.  US Youth Soccer seems to have immediately picked up on the severity of the issue and actually made the game footage of the match unavailable online, the only match not available.  The National Championship Series Committee found the teams were “disrespectful to the game, the competition and US Youth Soccer,” and unspecified disciplinary action and monetary fines were issued to the teams.  However, both teams were allowed to advance to the semi-finals, with Carlsbad advancing to the National Final on Sunday. 

This behavior is representative of the problems plaguing youth sports today, and not just soccer.  The ‘win at all costs’ culture has lost the value that sports used to play in the development of children.  Competition and the drive to win are key components to sports and the life lessons taught to players.  However, the competitive drive needs to be one of fair play and respect for the game.   Playing the game with no intention of winning is an insult to the sport as well as the other teams in the competition.


----------



## GLangevinito (Jun 25, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> This past Thursday during, the final game of the group stages of the Girls U18 US Youth Soccer National Championships in Frisco, Texas, it appears that two teams, Carlsbad Elite (CA-S) and Ambassadors FC (OH-N), may have colluded to finish the match in the draw so that both teams can advance.  Top Drawer Soccer’s Will Parchman reported on the game and supplied video showing both teams making zero effort to score, or even play the game.  The video shows defenders simply passing the ball back and forth for several minutes with no opponents within 20 yards.  The defenders then played the ball to the other end of the field where their teammates openly move out of the ball’s path until the opposing defenders collect it and begin their passing game between them with no pressure from their opponent.  It was clear that neither team made an effort to attempt to win game, being as they needed only a draw to advance to Saturday’s semi-finals.
> 
> Ambassadors’ coach Caleb Fortune, in a statement, says the lack luster performance was due to the extreme heat in the Texas sun, which exceeded 100 degrees most of the week.  However, from the video it can be clearly be seen that, regardless of the heat, there was a concerted effort by both teams to not attempt to actually play the game in a competitive manner.  US Youth Soccer seems to have immediately picked up on the severity of the issue and actually made the game footage of the match unavailable online, the only match not available.  The National Championship Series Committee found the teams were “disrespectful to the game, the competition and US Youth Soccer,” and unspecified disciplinary action and monetary fines were issued to the teams.  However, both teams were allowed to advance to the semi-finals, with Carlsbad advancing to the National Final on Sunday.
> 
> This behavior is representative of the problems plaguing youth sports today, and not just soccer.  The ‘win at all costs’ culture has lost the value that sports used to play in the development of children.  Competition and the drive to win are key components to sports and the life lessons taught to players.  However, the competitive drive needs to be one of fair play and respect for the game.   Playing the game with no intention of winning is an insult to the sport as well as the other teams in the competition.


Lots of excuses from the Carlsbad parents. It's VERY unlikely that the "players decided on their own" to pass the ball around and not play defense for 80 minutes. Players are there to play, no matter if they are hot, or tired, or a bench player. The video showed 64 consecutive passes completed by one side with no pressure before kicking it to the other team. 

No matter what the competitive situation was, both coaches made the decision to not play and rob another team of an opportunity to advance, no matter how slim the chances were. It's shameful, and I would bet you that 100% of the girls who were on the field that day regret it. I blame the coaches.


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Jun 26, 2021)

outside! said:


> There are times when strategic and player welfare is much more important than sporting.


Simple.  Then don't do the tourney.


----------



## mlx (Jun 27, 2021)

Parents not knowing the "shoulder to shoulder"rule. It's really annoying.

*Yesterday:  *
Our defender goes shoulder to shoulder against their forward, and steals the ball.
Ignorant parent: "COME ON, REF!!!!!! THAT'S A CARD!!!!! ARRRRHHHH!!!!! BLAHBLAH BLAHBLAH...."

Next play:
Our center mid is carrying the ball. Their center mid comes and kicks him on the ankles. The ref calls a fault right away.
Ignorant parent: "ARE YOU SERIOUS?????? YOU DID SEE THAT ONE?????? YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME!!!!!!"


----------



## mlx (Jun 27, 2021)

Parents raising loser brats.

*Yesterday:*
Same game, our team is winning 8-0 and one bratty player tries to make fun of one of our players doing EXACTLY this 
Our players around them look at each other like thinking "seriously? you are this loser?", and then they just erupt in laughter at their player and they just remind him there are 8 goals in difference.


----------



## Footy30 (Jun 28, 2021)

mlx said:


> Parents raising loser brats.
> 
> *Yesterday:*
> Same game, our team is winning 8-0 and one bratty player tries to make fun of one of our players doing EXACTLY this
> Our players around them look at each other like thinking "seriously? you are this loser?", and then they just erupt in laughter at their player and they just remind him there are 8 goals in difference.


*Parents raising loser brats.    *I think you nailed it right here.... not only when they're losing either,  parents raising kids to be brats in general....


----------



## Chalklines (Jun 28, 2021)

Footy30 said:


> *Parents raising loser brats.    *I think you nailed it right here.... not only when they're losing either,  parents raising kids to be brats in general....


My experience in California so far is Club soccer is a privileged sport. The parents with money feel entitled on and off the field to have things go a certain way their child. Spoiled Brats come with the territory more often then not.


----------



## crush (Jun 28, 2021)

Chalklines said:


> My experience in California so far is Club soccer is a privileged sport. The parents with money feel entitled on and off the field to have things go a certain way their child. Spoiled Brats come with the territory more often then not.


I got my old original avatar name suspended by Dom three years ago all because I coined a new league called, "Elite Parents Soccer League."  EPSL is all about pay for access and then pay some more to play.  I made a fake ad three years ago for the heck of it and I got whacked and attacked.  You saw it bro.  I'm coming up on my three year welcome back date.  The hate I got for telling the truth has been insane.  Anyway, I will soon leave for good and have two big reasons why I want and need to leave ASAP!!!.  The heat is getting so hot I'm starting to feel the burn on my face.  I already have knives in my back from dadhats.  This three year clean up job has taken it's toll on my soul.


----------



## outside! (Jun 28, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> Lots of excuses from the Carlsbad parents. It's VERY unlikely that the "players decided on their own" to pass the ball around and not play defense for 80 minutes. Players are there to play, no matter if they are hot, or tired, or a bench player. The video showed 64 consecutive passes completed by one side with no pressure before kicking it to the other team.
> 
> No matter what the competitive situation was, both coaches made the decision to not play and rob another team of an opportunity to advance, no matter how slim the chances were. It's shameful, and I would bet you that 100% of the girls who were on the field that day regret it. I blame the coaches.


Were either of you there? I reported what I saw with my own eyes, not what I read on the internet. Yes they did deny the NY team that lost a previous game 7-0. It was a NY parent that provided the video to TDS. You talk so much about "respect for the game", but no mention of how the current system has so little respect for the players with the fragmentation of leagues and the unneccasary travel caused by that fragmentation. Was what the players did the best response, probably not. It was however the response of a bunch of players that were tired of being used as pawns. You weren't there. Don't make assumptions about how those WOMEN (not girls, show some respect) feel about that game. You weren't on that field and you didn't go through the meet grinder of youth soccer like they did. They had just seen one of their peers taken off the field in tears for a game that did not matter.


----------



## GLangevinito (Jun 28, 2021)

outside! said:


> Were either of you there? I reported what I saw with my own eyes, not what I read on the internet. Yes they did deny the NY team that lost a previous game 7-0. It was a NY parent that provided the video to TDS. You talk so much about "respect for the game", but no mention of how the current system has so little respect for the players with the fragmentation of leagues and the unneccasary travel caused by that fragmentation. Was what the players did the best response, probably not. It was however the response of a bunch of players that were tired of being used as pawns. You weren't there. Don't make assumptions about how those WOMEN (not girls, show some respect) feel about that game. You weren't on that field and you didn't go through the meet grinder of youth soccer like they did. They had just seen one of their peers taken off the field in tears for a game that did not matter.


I watched the whole video, as did tens of thousands of people. It was embarrassing. The only people who saw nothing wrong live in 92008. 

If the tournament was unfair, and a meat grinder, the team could have chosen to skip it and head off to college refreshed. And you act like the Carlsbad team was the only one subject to the heat, and the grind, and the travel. EVERY TEAM had to deal with the same thing. It's no excuse for what both teams did - at least the other coach had the decency to act sheepish about it. 

I think Courtney agreed to the match fix when the other coach used all the same excuses you trotted out, and probably regretted it midway through when the optics looked terrible. But I lay the blame squarely at her feet, and anyone else who was involved in the decision. I don't blame the players at all. You know they didn't want to do that. You know they felt dumb not-playing for 80 minutes. 

I've had kids with plenty of group stage matches that didn't matter to the team. They could lose and still advance. But guess what? They still chose to play the game, risking injury, risking fatigue. Because that's what they signed up for - to play the game to the best of their ability.


----------



## mlx (Jun 28, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> I watched the whole video, as did tens of thousands of people. It was embarrassing. The only people who saw nothing wrong live in 92008.
> 
> If the tournament was unfair, and a meat grinder, the team could have chosen to skip it and head off to college refreshed. And you act like the Carlsbad team was the only one subject to the heat, and the grind, and the travel. EVERY TEAM had to deal with the same thing. It's no excuse for what both teams did - at least the other coach had the decency to act sheepish about it.
> 
> ...


Feel free to discuss further in here:

Thread


----------



## Emma (Jun 28, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> I watched the whole video, as did tens of thousands of people. It was embarrassing. The only people who saw nothing wrong live in 92008.
> 
> If the tournament was unfair, and a meat grinder, the team could have chosen to skip it and head off to college refreshed. And you act like the Carlsbad team was the only one subject to the heat, and the grind, and the travel. EVERY TEAM had to deal with the same thing. It's no excuse for what both teams did - at least the other coach had the decency to act sheepish about it.
> 
> ...


Carlsbad didn't need to win.  They opted for a safe strategy to prevent injuries during a heatwave.  I'd take that type of a coach anytime - Thinking about my kid's safety over blowing up the scoreboard.

Are you saying as a coach you would tell your players to go give it their all even though the game is meaningless to them and there is a high risk of injury?  Wouldn't you strategize to keep your players in good shape for the next game - I would.  A bunch of young woman are very capable of reading game results in tournaments and knowing whether the game is meaningless or not and protect themselves for the important game. 

It's people who are so obsessed over things like this that is ruining the fun in youth soccer/sports.  It's just a kid's game and when it's too hot and you don't need to score to move on, you don't make an effort.  It makes perfect sense.  If they decided to play hard, which is not smart of them, I'd support them too.

The other parent that submitted the video is a sore loser - entitled as heck.  Thinking they have a right to force a bunch of girls to play the way they want them to because their poor daughters didn't do enough to control their own destiny in the tourney.


----------



## GLangevinito (Jun 28, 2021)

Emma said:


> Carlsbad didn't need to win.  They opted for a safe strategy to prevent injuries during a heatwave.  I'd take that type of a coach anytime - Thinking about my kid's safety over blowing up the scoreboard.


Carlsbad didn't need to win. So why did they collude to throw the match? It wasn't about preventing injuries. Courtney could have played subs. She could have told them to lay back defensively. She could have told them to take their time and slow the pace of the game down. All acceptable. They did none of those things. They chose not to compete at all. Did you watch the video?

The only reason USYS did not disqualify both teams (as they should have), is that both coaches stuck to their lie that they did not collude, despite the video proving their statements false. 



> Are you saying as a coach you would tell your players to go give it their all even though the game is meaningless to them and there is a high risk of injury?  Wouldn't you strategize to keep your players in good shape for the next game - I would.  A bunch of young woman are very capable of reading game results in tournaments and knowing whether the game is meaningless or not and protect themselves for the important game.


How is there a "high" risk of injury? More than any other match? And yes, if I were in Courtney's place on that day, I would have played all my subs, told them to save their strength and not kill themselves, but I would have TOLD THEM TO PLAY. Not sit back for an entire game without a defensive challenge. 



> It's people who are so obsessed over things like this that is ruining the fun in youth soccer/sports.  It's just a kid's game and when it's too hot and you don't need to score to move on, you don't make an effort.  It makes perfect sense.  If they decided to play hard, which is not smart of them, I'd support them too.


They didn't make a subpar effort, THEY MADE NO EFFORT. And by doing so they robbed that other team of the bargain they made when they entered the competition - that every team will compete. They did not compete that day. 



> The other parent that submitted the video is a sore loser - entitled as heck.  Thinking they have a right to force a bunch of girls to play the way they want them to because their poor daughters didn't do enough to control their own destiny in the tourney.


You are confusing a team failing to play in a style that they would have preferred to NOT PLAYING AT ALL. 

Frankly, you are what is wrong with youth sports today. Win at all costs. Who cares about ethics? Do what you need to advance, screw everyone else.


----------



## mlx (Jun 28, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> Frankly, you are what is wrong with youth sports today. Win at all costs. Who cares about ethics? Do what you need to advance, screw everyone else.


Geez! I guess you are a parent of one of the teams that didn't qualify?

Emma made a very good point: Did the coaches or players talk to each other to fix the game? If so, it's cheating. If they didn't and just decided to kick the ball around, that's just tactics for the game/tournament.


----------



## Emma (Jun 28, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> Carlsbad didn't need to win. So why did they collude to throw the match? It wasn't about preventing injuries. Courtney could have played subs. She could have told them to lay back defensively. She could have told them to take their time and slow the pace of the game down. All acceptable. They did none of those things. They chose not to compete at all. Did you watch the video?
> 
> The only reason USYS did not disqualify both teams (as they should have), is that both coaches stuck to their lie that they did not collude, despite the video proving their statements false.
> 
> ...


 I could care less about which team made it to the next round or wins - that's the difference. I'll let the players and the coach decide how to strategize a tournament and not criticize them based on a video and an article, rather than listen to those who experienced the climate.  I'm sorry that you feel everyone has to make the decisions you would have made during a game.  I agree with Courtney.  Why would I let my subs get injured in an unnecessary game in extreme heat?  I need them for the elimination game too if it's going to be hot again, which it most likely will be.  Some teams need to win and will have to play differently because they didn't play well enough to *earn* the right to have a choice not to play much.

The parent that sent in the video was angry because their kid didn't make it to the next round, blaming others and expecting others to make decisions that will benefit their child.  It's not rec soccer.  Those parents cared so much about winning and making it to the next round, they tried to humiliate a bunch of soccer players/coaches and demean their choice.  The players and coaches get to make the decision on how they play the game, not parents on other teams hoping for a windfall.  Don't send a video out to the public to bully coaches and kids because your kids can't control their destiny. It's lame and ruins the game.  What should have been a fun time for girls that have worked hard to get there, turned into a negative event because parents had to blame others for their team's shortcomings.

Soccer is not just physical, soccer IQ includes knowing when to save your energy and when to play your hardest.  Some games sharpen your skills, some games sharpen your mind and some games allow you to rest your body for the elimination round.


----------



## Surf Zombie (Jun 28, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> Lots of excuses from the Carlsbad parents. It's VERY unlikely that the "players decided on their own" to pass the ball around and not play defense for 80 minutes. Players are there to play, no matter if they are hot, or tired, or a bench player. The video showed 64 consecutive passes completed by one side with no pressure before kicking it to the other team.
> 
> No matter what the competitive situation was, both coaches made the decision to not play and rob another team of an opportunity to advance, no matter how slim the chances were. It's shameful, and I would bet you that 100% of the girls who were on the field that day regret it. I blame the coaches.


I just googled the video out of curiosity.









						2 youth girls soccer teams fixed match, and it’s unwatchable
					

Two teams in the U.S. Youth Soccer National Championships in Frisco, Texas have been suspected of match fixing to ensure their survival in the tournament. Carlsbad Elite and Ambassadors FC entered …




					nypost.com
				




I’d pull my kids off the field mid game if they were doing this.


----------



## GLangevinito (Jun 28, 2021)

Emma said:


> I could care less about which team made it to the next round or wins - that's the difference. I'll let the players and the coach decide how to strategize a tournament and not criticize them based on a video and an article, rather than listen to those who experienced the climate.  I'm sorry that you feel everyone has to make the decisions you would have made during a game.  I agree with Courtney.  Why would I let my subs get injured in an unnecessary game in extreme heat?  I need them for the elimination game too if it's going to be hot again, which it most likely will be.  Some teams need to win and will have to play differently because they didn't play well enough to *earn* the right to have a choice not to play much.
> 
> The parent that sent in the video was angry because their kid didn't make it to the next round, blaming others and expecting others to make decisions that will benefit their child.  It's not rec soccer.  Those parents cared so much about winning and making it to the next round, they tried to humiliate a bunch of soccer players/coaches and demean their choice.  The players and coaches get to make the decision on how they play the game, not parents on other teams hoping for a windfall.  Don't send a video out to the public to bully coaches and kids because your kids can't control their destiny. It's lame and ruins the game.  What should have been a fun time for girls that have worked hard to get there, turned into a negative event because parents had to blame others for their team's shortcomings.
> 
> Soccer is not just physical, soccer IQ includes knowing when to save your energy and when to play your hardest.  Some games sharpen your skills, some games sharpen your mind and some games allow you to rest your body for the elimination round.


In sports, "saving your energy" is not the same as what those teams did. Zero shots. 64 consecutive passes completed. Intentional turnovers. No defense. 

There is no excuse for cheating and match fixing, no matter how good of an excuse you have. It violates the integrity of the sport. 

Courtney should have just called in a forfeit if the playing conditions were so dangerous like you imply. It would have saved us all the embarrassment of watching that unethical pantomime, which is going to follow those players and those coaches around forever now. It's 5 years later and we are still talking about it.


----------



## MacDre (Jun 28, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> I just googled the video out of curiosity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What’s your rationale?


----------



## Emma (Jun 28, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> In sports, "saving your energy" is not the same as what those teams did. Zero shots. 64 consecutive passes completed. Intentional turnovers. No defense.
> 
> There is no excuse for cheating and match fixing, no matter how good of an excuse you have. It violates the integrity of the sport.
> 
> Courtney should have just called in a forfeit if the playing conditions were so dangerous like you imply. It would have saved us all the embarrassment of watching that unethical pantomime, which is going to follow those players and those coaches around forever now. It's 5 years later and we are still talking about it.


Why? Courtney's team would move on regardless.  They earned the right to play the way they want to.  Those were the rules of the tournament.  You win big enough in the previous games compared to your other group teams, you EARN the right to suck or put no effort in the last game. 

After 5 years, I'm still fine with Courtney's decision and I'm proud that those SoCal girls did so well out there during that tournament.


----------



## what-happened (Jun 28, 2021)

MacDre said:


> What’s your rationale?


It's obvious.  What a waste of everyone's time.


----------



## Grace T. (Jun 28, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> I just googled the video out of curiosity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love how the cr is still running back and forth into position taking the responsibility seriously even though it’s self evident this has stopped resembling a real soccer game. That’s some dedication right there. I would have just parked myself at the center spot and maybe even sat down in the grass.


----------



## mlx (Jun 28, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> I love how the cr is still running back and forth into position taking the responsibility seriously even though it’s self evident this has stopped resembling a real soccer game. That’s some dedication right there. I would have just parked myself at the center spot and maybe even sat down in the grass.


Does the ref have the authority to call the game before time? why waste 45 mins when after 10 it is clear they won't attack each other?


----------



## Grace T. (Jun 28, 2021)

mlx said:


> Does the ref have the authority to call the game before time? why waste 45 mins when after 10 it is clear they won't attack each other?


Technically the ref has it within their authority to start handing out yellows for unsporting conduct (disrespect for the game)


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Jun 28, 2021)

Well, I wasn't going to come back on this but the soccer IQ thing swiveled me.  To be clear, I have no idea what game people are going on about here.  The thread is (was?) pet peeves-phoning it in for game three of the group stages if you can get away with it and move on is one of mine.  The most recent example that I'm aware of is from the boys U17 side of far western regionals-two otherwise good teams making a spectacle of themselves trying not to score. One hopes the college scouts the players hoped to attract did not choose to watch that one. My personal view is that it is embarrassment for an otherwise strong program and not sporting.  Others obviously feel that the strategic/tactical advantages that accrue with such a philosophy of play provide a sufficient rationale for this, that and the other reason.  They are entitled to their views.

The thing I wanted to say was that I do not believe that the "skill" involved in going through the motions because a game seems "pointless" cannot be, or at least should not be, considered part of what is generally thought of as soccer IQ.  To me, soccer IQ has to do with the ability for a player to read a game and execute within a system of play, not to avoid the game and not execute.  The issue has to do more with an underlying philosophy of play, or to not play if you can get away with it, as the case may be.  YMMV.


----------



## espola (Jun 28, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> Technically the ref has it within their authority to start handing out yellows for unsporting conduct (disrespect for the game)


Nonsense.


----------



## Surf Zombie (Jun 29, 2021)

MacDre said:


> What’s your rationale?


My rationale is that it is embarrassing, it’s not fair the other teams in the bracket and it’s contrary to everything I hope my kids learn from playing sports. On top of that, I’m 100% willing to pay $, travel and give up my weekends to watch my kids compete. No way am I standing around in the heat to watch that display. 

If winning some little tournament is the objective why not go big? Just sand bag it and put them in a much lower bracket than they belong in and destroy everyone. Am I right?


----------



## Grace T. (Jun 29, 2021)

espola said:


> Nonsense.


youre usual marvelous contribution

law 12 section 3 cautions final bullet.


----------



## espola (Jun 29, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> youre usual marvelous contribution
> 
> law 12 section 3 cautions final bullet.


I have seen referees issue cautions for shirts not tucked in, so I admit it can happen.  It's still nonsense.

Technical question - who gets the card?


----------



## MacDre (Jun 29, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> My rationale is that it is embarrassing, it’s not fair the other teams in the bracket and it’s contrary to everything I hope my kids learn from playing sports. On top of that, I’m 100% willing to pay $, travel and give up my weekends to watch my kids compete. No way am I standing around in the heat to watch that display.
> 
> If winning some little tournament is the objective why not go big? Just sand bag it and put them in a much lower bracket than they belong in and destroy everyone. Am I right?


I think it’s smart and it took teamwork to accomplish the game strategy.  Frankly, I don’t see how it’s embarrassing, unfair, or contrary to what kids learn from playing sports.

Life is unfair and sports are a palatable way of teaching kids that.  I also agree that hard work is good but I think smart work is better.  Decision making is of utmost importance in soccer.  I thinks it’s dumb to risk injury or death playing under adverse conditions to live up to imaginary ideals especially when one has the option not to.  So, I’d be proud if my kid had the inner strength to make an unpopular decision because it was arguably the best decision under the circumstances.

My kid is in soccer to be developed in 4 areas:  technical, tactical, physical, and mental.  I’d argue that the strategy used falls under tactical and mental development.  All the kids involved in the tournament now have a new tactical tool in their toolbox and have therefore experienced development.  Others are developing mentally by learning to accept that life isn’t fair and that there’s “more than one way to skin a cat.”

Dude, do you realize that by your own admission you want these kids to run around in the heat and risk injury but you are not willing to stand in the heat and watch your kid outwit their opponent...isn’t this a double standard?

Why are y’all so anti-development?


----------



## Grace T. (Jun 29, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I think it’s smart and it took teamwork to accomplish the game strategy.  Frankly, I don’t see how it’s embarrassing, unfair, or contrary to what kids learn from playing sports.
> 
> Life is unfair and sports are a palatable way of teaching kids that.  I also agree that hard work is good but I think smart work is better.  Decision making is of utmost importance in soccer.  I thinks it’s dumb to risk injury or death playing under adverse conditions to live up to imaginary ideals especially when one has the option not to.  So, I’d be proud if my kid had the inner strength to make an unpopular decision because it was arguably the best decision under the circumstances.
> 
> ...


agree with a lot that you say but I don’t think they are learning anything tactical. They can’t apply that to another game without the coach’s instruction and permission. The only thing tactically they are learning is how to obey a coach’s instructions which presumably at this level they already know how to do

As for the heat, more of the fault of the tournament for scheduling in the hottest part of the day, or if unavoidable, the teams for putting their players in such conditions in the first place.  The assumption (by all parties including the ref btw who in the clip is still running his ass off) is that a game is playable

as for injury it’s also always a risk whenever the players play


----------



## Grace T. (Jun 29, 2021)

espola said:


> I have seen referees issue cautions for shirts not tucked in, so I admit it can happen.  It's still nonsense.
> 
> Technical question - who gets the card?


Arbitrary. But it’s also why a ref wouldn’t do it. Once he issues the first card the other parties have 2 choices: they can play and it’s over, or they push back (whether playing more vigorously but still pretending to play or out right challenging the ref verbally). The options in the latter have the potential to move the game out of the refs control so it’s unlikely a ref would risk it.


----------



## GLangevinito (Jun 29, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I think it’s smart and it took teamwork to accomplish the game strategy.  Frankly, I don’t see how it’s embarrassing, unfair, or contrary to what kids learn from playing sports.
> 
> Life is unfair and sports are a palatable way of teaching kids that.  I also agree that hard work is good but I think smart work is better.  Decision making is of utmost importance in soccer.  I thinks it’s dumb to risk injury or death playing under adverse conditions to live up to imaginary ideals especially when one has the option not to.  So, I’d be proud if my kid had the inner strength to make an unpopular decision because it was arguably the best decision under the circumstances.
> 
> ...


It was match fixing. Which is cheating. Which everyone agrees is wrong, except, apparently, a few posters on this board who see nothing wrong with it. 

What we don't know is WHY Carlsbad would agree to this. To risk expulsion from the event and loss of reputation just to get a day off seems like an odd decision. You most often see this match fixing scenario when both teams are at risk of not advancing, but go through with a draw, like the TFA/Texans game at Surf Cup. Ambassadors could have parked the bus, Carlsbad could give low-effort to avoid injury, and we wouldn't be talking about it 5 years later. So, they came to an agreement that Carlsbad and Ambassadors go to the semifinals, and New York does not. Cheating. Which to you, MacDre, is "development". LOL


----------



## MacDre (Jun 29, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> It was match fixing. Which is cheating. Which everyone agrees is wrong, except, apparently, a few posters on this board who see nothing wrong with it.
> 
> What we don't know is WHY Carlsbad would agree to this. To risk expulsion from the event and loss of reputation just to get a day off seems like an odd decision. You most often see this match fixing scenario when both teams are at risk of not advancing, but go through with a draw, like the TFA/Texans game at Surf Cup. Ambassadors could have parked the bus, Carlsbad could give low-effort to avoid injury, and we wouldn't be talking about it 5 years later. So, they came to an agreement that Carlsbad and Ambassadors go to the semifinals, and New York does not. Cheating. Which to you, MacDre, is "development". LOL


What is your definition of match fixing?  I associate match fixing with gambling and throwing matches for financial gain none of which was present here.


----------



## watfly (Jun 29, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> It was match fixing. Which is cheating. Which everyone agrees is wrong, except, apparently, a few posters on this board who see nothing wrong with it.
> 
> What we don't know is WHY Carlsbad would agree to this. To risk expulsion from the event and loss of reputation just to get a day off seems like an odd decision. You most often see this match fixing scenario when both teams are at risk of not advancing, but go through with a draw, like the TFA/Texans game at Surf Cup. Ambassadors could have parked the bus, Carlsbad could give low-effort to avoid injury, and we wouldn't be talking about it 5 years later. So, they came to an agreement that Carlsbad and Ambassadors go to the semifinals, and New York does not. Cheating. Which to you, MacDre, is "development". LOL


While I think its kinda lame the manner in which the teams "played" the game, those two teams earned the right to play for a tie based on their performance in previous games.   Both teams had control of their own destiny.   Unless Vegas had a line on this game, I agree with MacDre that I don't see how this equates to match fixing.

Would I be bummed if my kid's team did this? Yes.  Would I be bummed if two other teams did this and kept my kid's team out of a final? Yes.  Would I make a scene and post a video on Youtube? No. Those teams earned that right.  Not to justify it, but it is not that rare for this to happen, but its usually done in a more discrete manner.


----------



## outside! (Jun 29, 2021)

To all of those that watched the video, did the video include the beginning of the game and the injury? Were any of you there? I was there. I saw the beginning of the game, I saw the injury, I saw the effect it had on the players. At the restart the players had already decided to slow the game down, both sides. Within a minute of the restart, both teams dialed it back completely. They were under no obligation to please any of you. USYS did not sanction either team, even though the NY parents made sure the tournament directors were on the sideline. One of the negative things about all of the media coverage was the derogatory comments by adults directed at the younger Carlsbad teams.


----------



## outside! (Jun 29, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> If winning some little tournament is the objective why not go big? Just sand bag it and put them in a much lower bracket than they belong in and destroy everyone. Am I right?


Do you even know what tournament this was and the context in which it was played? From you comment, I don't think you know what you are talking about. There were no lower brackets. There was no bigger tournament. It was the USYS National Championships, before GDA. It was played at in Frisco, Texas in July.


----------



## mlx (Jun 29, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> Am I right?


No. You guys just don't get futbol. That's all.


----------



## El Clasico (Jul 4, 2021)

mlx said:


> No. You guys just don't get futbol. That's all.


That is pretty bold.


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Jul 4, 2021)

El Clasico said:


> That is pretty bold.


Bold, yes, but interesting too (insert Irish Spring whistle).  Interesting in that the "not getting futbol" post was accompanied by a separate thread to compare/contrast/discuss the whole situation.  If the statement had been "You guys just don't get club soccer" I would have said you are probably right. At the beginning of "Inverting the Pyramid" Jonathan Wilson writes "In the beginning, there was chaos and soccer was without form".  The cynic in me wants to have the second sentence be "Then parents created something called club soccer so they could compete against one another using their children as proxies".  But clearly that is just a part of it.  

Getting ready for his senior year of high school and contemplating what's next, my son is like soccer needs to be part of it.  Back in Ulittle I used to think the answers to "what's development" and "what are we developing all these kids for" would basically just involve positive life lessons, blah blah blah.  But it turns out to be more visceral than that.  And having not played the game myself growing up it is possible I will never be able to truly "get futbol".  Perhaps "getting fubol" does involve developing an appreciation of how some games can be simply meaningless, deserving of being played with non-effort to achieve a non-result for strategic reasons to advance in a tournament.  But I suspect getting fubol is a deeper dive than that.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 4, 2021)

EvilGoalie 21 said:


> Bold, yes, but interesting too (insert Irish Spring whistle).  Interesting in that the "not getting futbol" post was accompanied by a separate thread to compare/contrast/discuss the whole situation.  If the statement had been "You guys just don't get club soccer" I would have said you are probably right. At the beginning of "Inverting the Pyramid" Jonathan Wilson writes "In the beginning, there was chaos and soccer was without form".  The cynic in me wants to have the second sentence be "Then parents created something called club soccer so they could compete against one another using their children as proxies".  But clearly that is just a part of it.
> 
> Getting ready for his senior year of high school and contemplating what's next, my son is like soccer needs to be part of it.  Back in Ulittle I used to think the answers to "what's development" and "what are we developing all these kids for" would basically just involve positive life lessons, blah blah blah.  But it turns out to be more visceral than that.  And having not played the game myself growing up it is possible I will never be able to truly "get futbol".  Perhaps "getting fubol" does involve developing an appreciation of how some games can be simply meaningless, deserving of being played with non-effort to achieve a non-result for strategic reasons to advance in a tournament.  But I suspect getting fubol is a deeper dive than that.


“getting futbol” is difficult for Americans to understand because less than lacrosse, water polo, or even futsal, it’s not really a game about scoring. It’s a game about mistakes and punishing mistakes when your opponent has made them. It has tactically more in common with speed chess than gridiron football. The ideal soccer game is a zero zero draw with no mistakes made...what’s weird about this scenario is it’s an artificial way of creating that because neither side is really trying hence mistakes can’t happen. Tactically smart chess but makes for a boring match.


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Jul 4, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> Tactically smart chess but makes for a boring match.


Disagree with the first clause, agree with the second.


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Jul 4, 2021)

Or perhaps I should say disagree with the first part in the context of a philosophy of play.  Having a 0-0 draw as a hard fought outcome is different than purposefully trying to achieve it as a non-result.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 4, 2021)

EvilGoalie 21 said:


> Or perhaps I should say disagree with the first part in the context of a philosophy of play.  Having a 0-0 draw as a hard fought outcome is different than purposefully trying to achieve it as a non-result.


A 4-4-2 formation is “different” from a 4-3–3 formation.  The fact that the tactics are different doesn’t matter.  What matters is that it is an additional tactical tool.  Why limit the tools in the toolbox?


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Jul 4, 2021)

I don't think anybody is saying a 0-0 draw cannot be entertaining, fascinating, etc.  And given its July 4, I don't think having a dim view of a 0-0 draw achieved because two teams find the game meaningless is just an ugly-Americanism.  Its just ugly.


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Jul 4, 2021)

MacDre said:


> A 4-4-2 formation is “different” from a 4-3–3 formation.  The fact that the tactics are different doesn’t matter.  What matters is that it is an additional tactical tool.  Why limit the tools in the toolbox?


Again, whatever lineup a team chooses to play reflects their system to play.  And good teams can switch between more defensive or offensive systems as the situation dictates.  Choosing NOT to meaningfully play as a tactic is, in my view, something qualitatively separate from that.  It reflects a difference in how a team philosophically approaches the matches in which they play.  Obviously, YMMV.


----------



## mlx (Jul 4, 2021)

EvilGoalie 21 said:


> Or perhaps I should say disagree with the first part in the context of a philosophy of play.  Having a 0-0 draw as a hard fought outcome is different than purposefully trying to achieve it as a non-result.


Mexico vs Brazil. World Cup 2014. One of the greatest games out there. Score? 0-0. The objective for Mexico was to advance to the next round. Not to be annihilated by Brazil at their own home by trying to score. The tactic was to hold and invalidate Brazil's advances and then, if they made mistakes, counterattack. Brazil didn't make any defensive mistakes.

That's how you play a tournament. Knowing the context, the opposite team, their strengths, the other teams' chances in your same bracket, etc.That's futbol.


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Jul 4, 2021)

mlx said:


> Mexico vs Brazil. World Cup 2014. One of the greatest games out there. Score? 0-0. The objective for Mexico was to advance to the next round. Not to be annihilated by Brazil at their own home by trying to score. The tactic was to hold and invalidate Brazil's advances and then, if they made mistakes, counterattack. Brazil didn't make any defensive mistakes.
> 
> That's how you play a tournament. Knowing the context, the opposite team, their strengths, the other teams' chances in your same bracket, etc.That's futbol.


Brazil was trying to win, yes?  Or did both teams just kick the ball back and forth?


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Jul 4, 2021)

I mean Ochoa after that game was compared to Gordan Banks, right?  Mexico executed a defensive game plan to thwart the offensive threat of Brazil, like you say.  Sure that's great fubol.  But it is not analogous (IMO) to the situation we are talking about here, in which case Brazil and Mexico would have both advanced by Brazil choosing to lumber aimlessly around the pitch and Ochoa needing to be woken up to come off the field at the half. Ochoa's play in last year's CCL semifinal might be another interesting topic, albeit one leading in a different direction.


----------



## soccerchaffeur (Jul 12, 2021)

Parents who talk to/criticize opposing players.
This is unacceptable. Sit down, Karen and put another cheeseburger in your fat face.


----------



## whatithink (Jul 12, 2021)

EvilGoalie 21 said:


> Or did both teams just kick the ball back and forth?


Germany vs Austria World Cup 1982

In the 1982 World Cup, West Germany and Austria played a match that should've been an all time great, and instead led to complaints of collusion, and barely resembled the sport. Whether you call it football or soccer, just call this one The Worst.


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Jul 12, 2021)

whatithink said:


> Germany vs Austria World Cup 1982
> 
> Whether you call it football or soccer, just call this one The Worst.


Que se besen


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Jul 12, 2021)

soccerchaffeur said:


> Parents who talk to/criticize opposing players.
> This is unacceptable. Sit down, Karen and put another cheeseburger in your fat face.


Thanks for the Karen/cheeseburger image.  Also, parents who trash talk junior refs on the sidelines because they think they can intimidate them.  "I don't care if  my grandkids play safe".  Reffing is a great way for a kid to pick up good spending money.  Asked my kid once how he felt when parents yelled at him when he was a ref. He said basically-they're only parents, you just ignore them.  I have no doubt the double-entendre was intentional.


----------



## RedCard (Jul 13, 2021)

EvilGoalie 21 said:


> Asked my kid once how he felt when parents yelled at him when he was a ref. He said basically-they're only parents, you just ignore them.  I have no doubt the double-entendre was intentional.


My kids would be great at this cause they both just tune me and their mom out....lol
Been while, this is how adults referees train


----------



## soccerchaffeur (Jul 14, 2021)

This 'complaint' is completely superficial, but does anyone else find the Capelli kits nasty? I already felt they ruined the Slammers kits last season, but seeing the Albion kits this past weekend confirmed it for me. They're ugly af. Must be paying some good coin to draw the clubs in.


----------



## justneededaname (Jul 14, 2021)

soccerchaffeur said:


> This 'complaint' is completely superficial, but does anyone else find the Capelli kits nasty? I already felt they ruined the Slammers kits last season, but seeing the Albion kits this past weekend confirmed it for me. They're ugly af. Must be paying some good coin to draw the clubs in.


Yes they are bad. But the new Nike kits the Surf kids are wearing are worse. When we saw the pictures the jersey looked really nice, When we got it, it still looked pretty good holding it up and looking at it. Seeing a team wearing them, they look terrible. And the shorts, they are cut strange and the fabric feels cheap. I feel like I picked up a pair of early 80s dolphin shorts.

Maybe we are just in a bad year for the fashion industry. Too many factories closing and designers working from their homes and only able to bounce ideas off each other on Zoom.


----------



## mlx (Jul 20, 2021)

soccerchaffeur said:


> This 'complaint' is completely superficial, but does anyone else find the Capelli kits nasty? I already felt they ruined the Slammers kits last season, but seeing the Albion kits this past weekend confirmed it for me. They're ugly af. Must be paying some good coin to draw the clubs in.


Is it this one? It doesn't look that bad in the pic. But I have to say they lose a little identity without the red and white stripes.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379511201361633286

On the other hand, the Real SoCal Uniforms have been ugly AF for years. The partnership with LAFC, by just getting new uniforms, is completely worth it even if it doesn't give the club anything else.


----------



## cerebro de fútbol (Aug 15, 2021)

Maybe it's just me but....I hate it when So Cal Blues re-announce commitments for girls who were already committed before they joined So Cal Blues. Then again SD Surf re-announced a commitment for a girl who committed while she was at So Cal Blues. So much for "developed here."


----------



## GT45 (Aug 15, 2021)

The commitment posts celebrate the players accomplishments. Do you want clubs to ignore certain players? You sound jealous.


----------



## cerebro de fútbol (Aug 15, 2021)

GT45 said:


> The commitment posts celebrate the players accomplishments. Do you want clubs to ignore certain players? You sound jealous.


Not jealous. My daughter has her D1 spot at a name brand school..I’m against false advertising. I am also against big clubs using our DD as pawns to line their own pockets. If a girl commits 2 years ago from one club how does So Cal Blues and SD Surf claim credit.? again, what happened to”developed here”? If you’re ok with this then you’re drinking the cool aid. “Come to XYZ club and you will be committed and make the WNT.”  The clubs should tell the truth. Then again at $3k plus per kid, there’s no incentive to tell the truth. For the clubs it’s not about development it’s about the $$$$$$$&$$$.


----------



## El Clasico (Aug 15, 2021)

cerebro de fútbol said:


> Not jealous. My daughter has her D1 spot at a name brand school..I’m against false advertising. I am also against big clubs using our DD as pawns to line their own pockets. If a girl commits 2 years ago from one club how does So Cal Blues and SD Surf claim credit.? again, what happened to”developed here”? If you’re ok with this then you’re drinking the cool aid. “Come to XYZ club and you will be committed and make the WNT.”  The clubs should tell the truth. Then again at $3k plus per kid, there’s no incentive to tell the truth. For the clubs it’s not about development it’s about the $$$$$$$&$$$.


I have a family member that sent a letter to a very well known club and instructed them to take down their post implying that they helped my niece get a scholarship to a solid D1 program.  For some of us that have been down the path, it really is a bit offensive when someone takes credit for your players hard work and the parents efforts.  If there was help from a program, then that is different but that has not been my experience. The way I see it, please don't take credit for my child's hard work and if you want to use them to promote/market your program, then pay them for their help in marketing your program. Just my opinion, for all I know, they may already be paying those players through discounts or free rides.


----------



## GT45 (Aug 15, 2021)

Who is taking credit for their accomplishments? You are making accusations that are not there. The Blues posts on their Instagram just congratulate the player on the players commitment.  Surf has some captions on some of their posts that mention the particular player's time in their club, but I presume those to be truthful.

Both Surf and Blues have sent more than enough players that have developed over the years in their clubs to top programs. Their credibility is established.


----------



## supercell (Aug 16, 2021)

Touchy subject at our club. There is some frustration with the level of support from coaches and TD with regard to recruiting, so when they post commitments, even if the language appears to be just congratulatory, the implication is that they are taking some credit for it ... i.e. 'if you come here, this might happen to you'.  Most folks appreciate the fanfare, but the kids really did all the work.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 16, 2021)

I'm surprised parents allow clubs to advertise on their kids likeness without being compensated. 

I'm also surprised that top youth players dont have agents with the recent NCAA changes around players owning their likeness. (Agents would be going after clubs for compensation)









						NCAA Name Image Likeness Rule | College Sports
					

Learn more about the new NCAA rules regarding the for-profit use of a student-athlete’s name, image and likeness for endorsements or promotions.




					www.ncsasports.org


----------



## crush (Aug 16, 2021)

supercell said:


> Touchy subject at our club. There is some frustration with the level of support from coaches and TD with regard to recruiting, so when they post commitments, even if the language appears to be just congratulatory, the implication is that they are taking some credit for it ... i.e. 'if you come here, this might happen to you'.  Most folks appreciate the fanfare, but the kids really did all the work.


I will tread lightly on this subject.  I don't want to piss anyone off....lol!  I have 11 years of experience watching socal youth soccer.  Some on here are going through their 2nd or even 3rd soccer player.  First off, the sport and the game is awesome.  I played on the pitch from 1972-1979.  I still remember going to bed on a Friday night and putting my GK shirt at the end of my bed and I would dream about stopping all the shots and then being asked with 1 minute left in the match to go coast to coast for the game winner.  I don't like how some clubs, docs and individual gurus think their the one's doing all the developing and hard work making the DD something special.  I can say from my soccer perch that the top players had that something special when they were born with it.  Yes, coaches can help DD love the game or hate the game.  Too much credit to club and doc and not enough credit going to the kid who works their ass off to be the best.  I also don;t like the power broker mindset that some have in the middle of all this.  I know one girl/guy that goes around a with a list of all the players that she/he has made into this or other countries WNT player or this college's super star.  I know everyone in the game and as long as you do privates with me and STFU, all will go well.  I can say today, it's not like it used to be back in the day.


----------



## GT45 (Aug 16, 2021)

Crush I agree with you. The elite players are born with special athleticism and they put in the work to develop their game. A coach can help manage  the development by putting the player in competitive environments at training and competition. But, at the end of the day, elite players are who they are because of their natural abilities.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Aug 16, 2021)

GT45 said:


> Crush I agree with you. The elite players are born with special athleticism and they put in the work to develop their game. A coach can help manage  the development by putting the player in competitive environments at training and competition. But, at the end of the day, elite players are who they are because of their natural abilities.


Yes…and sometimes that natural ability is an unrelenting work ethic.


----------



## crush (Aug 16, 2021)

GT45 said:


> Crush I agree with you. The elite players are born with special athleticism and they put in the work to develop their game. A coach can help manage  the development by putting the player in competitive environments at training and competition. But, at the end of the day, elite players are who they are because of their natural abilities.


I will also say if your big, strong & fast but dont learn how to pass, collect and all the other goodies with soccer you wont get far.  A good technical director or coach can help in this arena.  Good stuff 45


----------



## Goforgoal (Aug 16, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Yes…and sometimes that natural ability is an unrelenting work ethic.


This is so true. The funny thing about soccer (and what defines it as "the beautiful game" in my opinion) is that it depends on so many qualities that just can't be coached or taught. It applies in other sports as well, but none as much as soccer, due to the open and free flowing nature of the game.


----------



## lafalafa (Aug 16, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I'm surprised parents allow clubs to advertise on their kids likeness without being compensated.
> 
> I'm also surprised that top youth players dont have agents with the recent NCAA changes around players owning their likeness. (Agents would be going after clubs for compensation)
> 
> ...


Some football or basketball NCCA players might be high profile enough to earn something out of their "likeness" but NCCA soccer not so much.   The 30+ ncca waivers and regulations that players have to sign limits some of that also including social media posting.

Professional starting wages in MLS or the women's league is often less than college grads in higher demand fields and those clubs sell tickets and jerseys and the players don't get a cut so not sure there is anything to leverage on the whole likeness deal.


----------



## soccerchaffeur (Aug 26, 2021)

Dads that go on every social media site to let us know their superstars are available to guest this weekend. It's even better when they start listing their strengths and better yet...stats! I guess there are enough trophy chasing coaches who pander to that crowd.


----------



## Yousername (Aug 26, 2021)

soccerchaffeur said:


> Dads that go on every social media site to let us know their superstars are available to guest this weekend. It's even better when they start listing their strengths and better yet...stats! I guess there are enough trophy chasing coaches who pander to that crowd.


Or who refer to their teenagers as GOATs. Really?!?! I love my kid as much as the next person, and I think the world of her, but it’s just obnoxious when it’s used every damn time to refer to your kid.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 26, 2021)

soccerchaffeur said:


> Dads that go on every social media site to let us know their superstars are available to guest this weekend. It's even better when they start listing their strengths and better yet...stats! I guess there are enough trophy chasing coaches who pander to that crowd.


I see that quite a bit.  Give your kid a break. Take them to the beach or something.  If they really want to play bad, let them organize a pick up game in the neighborhood.


----------



## lafalafa (Aug 26, 2021)

soccerchaffeur said:


> Dads that go on every social media site to let us know their superstars are available to guest this weekend. It's even better when they start listing their strengths and better yet...stats! I guess there are enough trophy chasing coaches who pander to that crowd.


Dang selling out your own kid, wow that's too much.


----------



## Footy30 (Aug 26, 2021)

Yousername said:


> Or who refer to their teenagers as GOATs. Really?!?! I love my kid as much as the next person, and I think the world of her, but it’s just obnoxious when it’s used every damn time to refer to your kid.


You know what's worse than this? Is often times the way these "GOATS" act. (way to go parents)  don't get me wrong I know plenty of humble ballers but those kids usually don't have parents running around telling everyone what a GOAT they are... the kid's game and work ethic, etc. speaks for themselves.


----------



## pokergod (Aug 26, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I see that quite a bit.  Give your kid a break. Take them to the beach or something.  If they really want to play bad, let them organize a pick up game in the neighborhood.


Will the neighborhood game be considered a showcase?  If so, my goat is available to guest.


----------



## Soccermom18 (Aug 26, 2021)

soccerchaffeur said:


> Dads that go on every social media site to let us know their superstars are available to guest this weekend. It's even better when they start listing their strengths and better yet...stats! I guess there are enough trophy chasing coaches who pander to that crowd.


Been seeing a lot of this… the worst would be getting injured guesting for another a team. Aren’t parents afraid of burning their kids out?  On a top flight team, the kids are already practicing 3+ times a week with their team… private sessions with a different coach and games/tournaments on the weekends.


----------



## 46n2 (Aug 26, 2021)

IMO a parent that does this has had their kid play on multiple team in a short period, Ive seen it start at age 11-15 most , seems like those four years, when a player should be having the best time of their lives with their teammates and growing before the real stuff happens at 16 and up...but instead dad, and sometimes mommy is so delusional that their kid has 6 different backpacks by the time they start driving......


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 27, 2021)

46n2 said:


> IMO a parent that does this has had their kid play on multiple team in a short period, Ive seen it start at age 11-15 most , seems like those four years, when a player should be having the best time of their lives with their teammates and growing before the real stuff happens at 16 and up...but instead dad, and sometimes mommy is so delusional that their kid has 6 different backpacks by the time they start driving......


How would you feel about "6 different backpacks" if coaches were calling you asking if you're kid would want to guest in XYZ tournament (almost weekly) and when you relay to you kid they say yes every time? I don't know about the parents that hype their kids on social media (because I don't do any of that). But, I can say with a player that's done soccer since 3yrs old and competitive since 5yrs old that at age 10 "6 different backpacks" is about right.

Not saying that you're wrong. Sometimes crazy Parents are pushing players. However sometimes they aren't.


----------



## crush (Aug 27, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> How would you feel about "6 different backpacks" if coaches were calling you asking if you're kid would want to guest in XYZ tournament (almost weekly) and when you relay to you kid they say yes every time? I don't know about the parents that hype their kids on social media (because I don't do any of that). But, I can say with a player that's done soccer since 3yrs old and competitive since 5yrs old that at age 10 "6 different backpacks" is about right.
> 
> Not saying that you're wrong. Sometimes crazy Parents are pushing players. However sometimes they aren't.


MOO FYY, sometimes Docs lie so much and behave so poorly ((lie some more and other naughty things)) that kid has to leave backpack and find a new backpack.  It happens and you can;t paint a broad brush on all families with 5 or 6 packs.  My dd was asked "to guest" a few times as baby player ((I dont want to offend any of the Elitist and say "my goat.")) and it was fun.  Coach Bobak was 100% for kids playing matches as long as it didnt interfear with the team and all you have to do is ask.  A confident coach has nothing to worry about.  Jealousy is thick in this sport.  TMs causing cancer with gossip.  "Look at her, another backpack."  Losers!!!


----------



## 46n2 (Aug 27, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> How would you feel about "6 different backpacks" if coaches were calling you asking if you're kid would want to guest in XYZ tournament (almost weekly) and when you relay to you kid they say yes every time? I don't know about the parents that hype their kids on social media (because I don't do any of that). *But, I can say with a player that's done soccer since 3yrs old and competitive since 5yrs old *that at age 10 "6 different backpacks" is about right.
> 
> Not saying that you're wrong. Sometimes crazy Parents are pushing players. However sometimes they aren't.


you had me at competitive soccer at 5yrs old, haha oh fuck......this is exactly what Im talking about ....I swear everyone south of 73 thinks bb or dd is pro by the age of 9.


----------



## Alika M (Aug 27, 2021)

46n2 said:


> you had me at competitive soccer at 5yrs old, haha oh fuck......this is exactly what Im talking about ....I swear everyone south of 73 thinks bb or dd is pro by the age of 9.


so spot on... hahah!!


----------



## timbuck (Aug 27, 2021)

Footy30 said:


> You know what's worse than this? Is often times the way these "GOATS" act. (way to go parents)  don't get me wrong I know plenty of humble ballers but those kids usually don't have parents running around telling everyone what a GOAT they are... the kid's game and work ethic, etc. speaks for themselves.


Whenever my kid has guested or whenever our team has had a guest - It's always been someone that is a friend.  I couldn't imagine just showing up on Saturday morning as a hired gun to play with some kids you don't really know.
But maybe that's why my kid isn't a goat.


----------



## Yousername (Aug 27, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Whenever my kid has guested or whenever our team has had a guest - It's always been someone that is a friend.  I couldn't imagine just showing up on Saturday morning as a hired gun to play with some kids you don't really know.
> But maybe that's why my kid isn't a goat.


I agree. I do think that the keeper position *might* be the one exception where being a “hired gun” to play with kids you don’t know is necessary, because not all teams carry 2 keepers or more. So sometimes they do have to grab from wherever they can.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 27, 2021)

46n2 said:


> you had me at competitive soccer at 5yrs old, haha oh fuck......this is exactly what Im talking about ....I swear everyone south of 73 thinks bb or dd is pro by the age of 9.


We had no idea what we were getting into. All we knew is that our daughter liked playing soccer + it seemed like a logical progression. 

Competitive at 5 was purely a money grab. Easy to see in the rearview.

I never said she was going pro or even if she has plans to play after club. She just likes to play


----------



## espola (Aug 27, 2021)

Footy30 said:


> You know what's worse than this? Is often times the way these "GOATS" act. (way to go parents)  don't get me wrong I know plenty of humble ballers but those kids usually don't have parents running around telling everyone what a GOAT they are... the kid's game and work ethic, etc. speaks for themselves.


I agree.  At the field, before, during, or after the game, let the kid make statements of his/her ability by demonstration.  

The place for parents to promote the kid's abilities is in the college coach's office when discussing a possible offer.  "He's the best uncommitted player left in the county" or something like that.


----------



## MacDre (Aug 27, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I see that quite a bit.  Give your kid a break. Take them to the beach or something.  If they really want to play bad, let them organize a pick up game in the neighborhood.


Well said coach.  I have been thinking about the guesting vs. playing pick up issue lately.  I have decided pick up is


Footy30 said:


> You know what's worse than this? Is often times the way these "GOATS" act. (way to go parents)  don't get me wrong I know plenty of humble ballers but those kids usually don't have parents running around telling everyone what a GOAT they are... the kid's game and work ethic, etc. speaks for themselves.


As part of my kids “mental development,” she’s taking ng a sports psychology class.  Yesterday, she had a reading assignment that focused on GRIT and included all these studies comparing parents that consistently complimented their kids telling them they were great vs. parents that only complimented effort and a kids willingness to undertake task where they could be publicly embarrassed by failure.

The kids that received constant praise were not resilient and hesitant to undertake any task where they didn’t know they be successful.  Whereas the kids that were praised for their efforts worked harder and sought out challenging opportunities where they would fail as part of their maturation process.

So, the takeaway message is to praise effort and courage not current ability.


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Aug 27, 2021)

Yousername said:


> I do think that the keeper position *might* be the one exception where being a “hired gun” to play with kids you don’t know is necessary


Rather than guesting over on a friends team, it can also be an inter-club thing.  Like this weekend one team in a larger organization we just got branded with is out some kids due to SAT. So that coach puts out the call and our coach is like some of you guys want games this weekend.  Ugly soccer parenting is one thing, but it can also just be helping out.


----------



## lafalafa (Aug 27, 2021)

EvilGoalie 21 said:


> Rather than guesting over on a friends team, it can also be an inter-club thing.  Like this weekend one team in a larger organization we just got branded with is out some kids due to SAT. So that coach puts out the call and our coach is like some of you guys want games this weekend.  Ugly soccer parenting is one thing, but it can also just be helping out.


Guesting or loaning for inter-club teams is common and can give players valuable experience.

Guesting for another club is when things can get a bit dicey if it's beyond the school,  neighborhood, or friends connections.

Playing down guesting well don't think that's a good policy, sandbagging to get some $5 metals are normally just for the parents or the thirsty club(s).

If a player wants to guest or gets a opportunity they will let parents know, no reason to "advertise" a players out that I know of.  Coaches communication and they should be the ones giving suggestions or recommendations on additional play.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 27, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Guesting or loaning for inter-club teams is common and can give players valuable experience.
> 
> Guesting for another club is when things can get a bit dicey if it's beyond the school,  neighborhood, or friends connections.
> 
> ...


One exception to the "hired gun" approach.  If you are travelling a bit of distance for 1 of your kids to play in a tournament and you are dragging another kid with you-  May as well try to get them on the field at the same tournament.


----------



## lafalafa (Aug 27, 2021)

timbuck said:


> One exception to the "hired gun" approach.  If you are travelling a bit of distance for 1 of your kids to play in a tournament and you are dragging another kid with you-  May as well try to get them on the field at the same tournament.


Yeah for sure if you're out of town or area and just want to play is another one.

On vacation to Hawaii, San Diego, etc visiting relatives in another state and your team is on break  player wants to get in some work while there instead of sitting on the beach for another 3 days or whatever, should be coming from the player(s) not the parents seeking them out or advertising. 

Indoor guesting or pickup yeah that's fine also and can help development.


----------



## met61 (Aug 27, 2021)

1. Stacked Goat teams/parents screwing up tourneys.

2. See above.


----------



## mlx (Aug 29, 2021)

The trashy, angry, cry baby, ignorant of the rules, set of parents EVERY single Slammers teams have. Yesterday, another game against another Slammers, and this specimen showed up.

I have said it many times and I will continue.

So far,  in 5 years of club soccer, 100% of the times there’s an slammers team, a set of their parents looks like this.

We beat them, so their crying was even louder.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 29, 2021)

This seems to be a recent occurrence-  Having an ECNL team play "up" an age division and destroying their SoCal League opponents.  I've seen this at least the past 3 weekends.
You'd think that "playing up" would level things out a bit-  But the reality is that the players on that "closed" league probably have a birthday that is early in the year-  So they aren't that far off from the younger player on the non-closed league team. And they are probably more physically mature than other girls their own age.

I think ECNL (for the most part) is great.  It puts the best players in a league against each other.  But if you are going to play in an all-star league-  Keep your competition against other all star teams.

My DD's team was up against this last weekend.  I hope our club decides to not play in any tournaments associated with clubs that consistently do this (Looking at you slammers and West Coast).


----------



## Venantsyo (Aug 29, 2021)

mlx said:


> The trashy, angry, cry baby, ignorant of the rules, set of parents EVERY single Slammers teams have. Yesterday, another game against another Slammers, and this specimen showed up.
> 
> I have said it many times and I will continue.
> 
> ...


We have a couple of those up here in North OC..


----------



## espola (Aug 29, 2021)

One of our kids' teams was blessed with a parent who would sit about 5 yards behind the coach and team bench and criticize everything the coach did, especially when he subbed his kid out.


----------



## notintheface (Aug 30, 2021)

espola said:


> One of our kids' teams was blessed with a parent who would sit about 5 yards behind the coach and team bench and criticize everything the coach did, especially when he subbed his kid out.


That kid doesn't start matches and plays a max of 10 minutes, preferably once the opponent has made their rest subs.


----------



## espola (Aug 30, 2021)

notintheface said:


> That kid doesn't start matches and plays a max of 10 minutes, preferably once the opponent has made their rest subs.


The kid was a strong athlete (state wrestling tournament finalist a few years later), a solid defender, and our backup goalkeeper.  The coach never said it directly, but I fear he may have allowed the parent's attitude to influence his playing time decisions.

And the parent was no dummy --he had an engineering doctorate and hired himself out as a consultant for a living,


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 30, 2021)

mlx said:


> The trashy, angry, cry baby, ignorant of the rules, set of parents EVERY single Slammers teams have. Yesterday, another game against another Slammers, and this specimen showed up.
> 
> I have said it many times and I will continue.
> 
> ...


Posts like this are classless and broad. I know you have posted similar comments like this. I am sure our teams have never met. Therefore your already wrong.. Would love to know what your club your with as I am sure I could easily accuse them of poor behavior. All clubs are culpable of poor behavior, please don't act like your free from it. And, I wont post a picture of you based on what I can imagine you may look like when playing a Slammers team.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 30, 2021)

timbuck said:


> This seems to be a recent occurrence-  Having an ECNL team play "up" an age division and destroying their SoCal League opponents.  I've seen this at least the past 3 weekends.
> You'd think that "playing up" would level things out a bit-  But the reality is that the players on that "closed" league probably have a birthday that is early in the year-  So they aren't that far off from the younger player on the non-closed league team. And they are probably more physically mature than other girls their own age.
> 
> I think ECNL (for the most part) is great.  It puts the best players in a league against each other.  But if you are going to play in an all-star league-  Keep your competition against other all star teams.
> ...


So, my daughters team played up at the 03/04 age group in tourneys the last two weekends. Coach wanted to get games in to prepare for league play. Our girls were 15 months or more younger on average. And were dramatically smaller  in height and weight.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 31, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> So, my daughters team played up at the 03/04 age group in tourneys the last two weekends. Coach wanted to get games in to prepare for league play. Our girls were 15 months or more younger on average. And were dramatically smaller  in height and weight.


Assuming your team is 05?  That's juniors and sophomores playing against seniors/juniors (maybe even a kid who recently graduated).
When you have a skilled (but smaller) younger team that is outplaying an older/bigger team -  It's a recipe for injury.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 31, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Assuming your team is 05?  That's juniors and sophomores playing against seniors/juniors (maybe even a kid who recently graduated).
> When you have a skilled (but smaller) younger team that is outplaying an older/bigger team -  It's a recipe for injury.


Yes, 05. The vast majority of the players on my DD's team are June of 05 or later. They are very young juniors or older sophomores. One of the teams they played are from a club near where we live. I know most of the girls and there all seniors. No injuries'.


----------



## mlx (Sep 1, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Posts like this are classless and broad. I know you have posted similar comments like this. I am sure our teams have never met. Therefore your already wrong.. Would love to know what your club your with as I am sure I could easily accuse them of poor behavior. All clubs are culpable of poor behavior, please don't act like your free from it. And, I wont post a picture of you based on what I can imagine you may look like when playing a Slammers team.


Wah wah wah! Typical.


----------



## Soccer43 (Sep 1, 2021)

Who hurt you?


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 1, 2021)

mlx said:


> Wah wah wah! Typical.


If this response is what we can expect from you as typical then great.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 1, 2021)

timbuck said:


> This seems to be a recent occurrence-  Having an ECNL team play "up" an age division and destroying their SoCal League opponents.  I've seen this at least the past 3 weekends.
> You'd think that "playing up" would level things out a bit-  But the reality is that the players on that "closed" league probably have a birthday that is early in the year-  So they aren't that far off from the younger player on the non-closed league team. And they are probably more physically mature than other girls their own age.
> 
> I think ECNL (for the most part) is great.  It puts the best players in a league against each other.  But if you are going to play in an all-star league-  Keep your competition against other all star teams.
> ...


The top teams in any region have a hard time finding good games.

If they play only top teams, the travel cost is immense.  By definition, the top 20 teams are few and far between.

If they play up, they risk injuries and still get lopsided scores.

I don't support sending a top team to ruin a lower ranked bracket, but the scheduler for strong teams does have a problem to work around.


----------



## Woodwork (Sep 1, 2021)

dad4 said:


> The top teams in any region have a hard time finding good games.
> 
> If they play only top teams, the travel cost is immense.  By definition, the top 20 teams are few and far between.
> 
> ...


I agree.  After about 12, a lower flight team is a lower flight team.  The age difference doesn't make enough difference to justify playing a tournament that is below the team's skill level.


----------



## notintheface (Sep 2, 2021)

Woodwork said:


> I agree. After about 12, a lower flight team is a lower flight team. The age difference doesn't make enough difference to justify playing a tournament that is below the team's skill level.


Bingo. A flight-1 group of club freshmen have a better-than-average shot at beating a high school varsity team irregardless of skill level. Playing up a year is meaningless if you're entering a tournament that would normally be way beneath you, even if you justify it as "getting ready for season" because let's face it, you're trophy hunting.


----------



## futboldad1 (Sep 2, 2021)

notintheface said:


> Bingo. A flight-1 group of club freshmen have a better-than-average shot at beating a high school varsity team irregardless of skill level. Playing up a year is meaningless if you're entering a tournament that would normally be way beneath you, even if you justify it as "getting ready for season" because let's face it, you're trophy hunting.


Yes I think scrimmages are better for improved competition, less risk of over used injury and more affordable for us parents…..low level tournaments for higher ranked older teams are not my preference……… but each to their own


----------



## lafalafa (Sep 2, 2021)

notintheface said:


> Bingo. A flight-1 group of club freshmen have a better-than-average shot at beating a high school varsity team irregardless of skill level. Playing up a year is meaningless if you're entering a tournament that would normally be way beneath you, even if you justify it as "getting ready for season" because let's face it, you're trophy hunting.


I dunno what HS boys teams are in your area but almost all the ones in ours are packed with club players already.  Flight one freshman are mostly on JV.

All tournaments are trophy hunting, playing up at the better ones can help  development in the long term. 

So many tournaments going on the competition can be really thin depending on who's playing what?


----------



## Soccermom18 (Sep 3, 2021)

Parents constantly caring about playing time.   This is a team sport, if your kid is not playing their best, they should be subbed out.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 7, 2021)

Soccermom18 said:


> Parents constantly caring about playing time.   This is a team sport, if your kid is not playing their best, they should be subbed out.


That’s a bunch of bs. 

I know of many parents that believe this.   However, once their star kids (never had issues with playing minutes) get to college and are bench players, the sky begins to fall.   They are now concerned with playing minutes.


----------



## Footy30 (Sep 7, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> I dunno what HS boys teams are in your area but almost all the ones in ours are packed with club players already.  Flight one freshman are mostly on JV.
> 
> All tournaments are trophy hunting, playing up at the better ones can help  development in the long term.
> 
> So many tournaments going on the competition can be really thin depending on who's playing what?


I was looking a the tournaments, including the ones my ECNL kids played in and the competition wasn't evenly matched I don't care if the teams were playing a year up... if a team is beating every team by 4-0 or more (usually more) then it's not beneficial to the stronger team..  So I agree with you on one hand about competition being thin but also not always is it beneficial to development in the long run (for the weaker team yes, but not the strong team beating up on everyone) 

Just my opinion


----------



## lafalafa (Sep 7, 2021)

Footy30 said:


> I was looking a the tournaments, including the ones my ECNL kids played in and the competition wasn't evenly matched I don't care if the teams were playing a year up... if a team is beating every team by 4-0 or more (usually more) then it's not beneficial to the stronger team..  So I agree with you on one hand about competition being thin but also not always is it beneficial to development in the long run (for the weaker team yes, but not the strong team beating up on everyone)
> 
> Just my opinion


Yeah entering tournaments beside the major ones is a bit like gambling, sometimes hard to tell what you might get in terms of competition.  Roll of the dice, during group play there can blowouts.   

Even in national playoffs there where 4-0/1 games during the semis I recall but at that point your just happy to keep playing and getting some rest for the starters.


----------



## soccerchaffeur (Sep 8, 2021)

Clubs with cheesy mottos that are nothing but lip service. This past weekend, my daughter faced a team whose club states 'Developing Good People to Become Good Soccer players'. Well...after they were shown 7 yellow cards and 1 straight red in just that one match, I don't believe them. Their actions and verbal bullying were disgusting.


----------



## bubster (Sep 10, 2021)

How about this for annoying...belonging to a league (SoCal to be exact) that refuses to reschedule a game even when both teams are in agreement.

We are down 4 players this past 2 weeks due to injury, defection to other clubs and players being held hostage by club directors. 

We need more time to address this and the answer is to reschedule, not be forced into a forfeit or playing an 11v11 game with 9 kids.


----------



## SoccerSanDiego (Sep 10, 2021)

bubster said:


> How about this for annoying...belonging to a league (SoCal to be exact) that refuses to reschedule a game even when both teams are in agreement.
> 
> We are down 4 players this past 2 weeks due to injury, defection to other clubs and players being held hostage by club directors.
> 
> We need more time to address this and the answer is to reschedule, not be forced into a forfeit or playing an 11v11 game with 9 kids.


Which clubs are holding players hostage?


----------



## notintheface (Sep 12, 2021)

bubster said:


> players being held hostage by club directors.


It's September. What were you doing before the roster freeze?


----------



## soccerchaffeur (Mar 9, 2022)

This complaint falls under misleading recruiting.
I see it a lot! A manager or coach goes on social media recruiting players and lists tournament wins, or in the case that irked me today as 'State Cup Champions'. When you dig a little deeper, you see they won the bronze/flight 3 cups/tournaments. While it's technically true they brought home some hardware, it comes off disingenuous to me. At that level, you're probably not even a top 100 team in your age group..


----------



## Jar!23 (Mar 9, 2022)

soccerchaffeur said:


> This complaint falls under misleading recruiting.
> I see it a lot! A manager or coach goes on social media recruiting players and lists tournament wins, or in the case that irked me today as 'State Cup Champions'. When you dig a little deeper, you see they won the bronze/flight 3 cups/tournaments. While it's technically true they brought home some hardware, it comes off disingenuous to me. At that level, you're probably not even a top 100 team in your age group..


This season, Norcal Premier asked clubs to state the actual bracket when posting about state cup wins on social media.


----------



## Jamisfoes (Mar 11, 2022)

Strikers having tryouts at Great park. Making it seem like that's their home field. When in reality, they have to share fields with Liverpool and Pats and everybody else for their practices. And could only use small goals because the field is too cramped.


----------



## Soccermom18 (Mar 11, 2022)

Jamisfoes said:


> Strikers having tryouts at Great park. Making it seem like that's their home field. When in reality, they have to share fields with Liverpool and Pats and everybody else for their practices. And could only use small goals because the field is too cramped.


That would be the same for Pats/Liverpool/slammers/west coast/blues as well.


----------



## soccerchaffeur (Aug 8, 2022)

My 2012, twin sons were in a tournament final this weekend. We've run into the opposing teams coach a few times over the past couple seasons, and this guy is always a huge douche bag...like next level douche. Yesterday, when one of our boys went down near his sideline, the coach quietly told him 'you're a flopper like Neymar and you're a terrible soccer player'. The kid broke down in tears after. My son heard him and told him to shut up. Mind you, my son is 9. Coach then got in a verbal confrontation with my boy! Why is this POS talking to our boys?!


----------



## Code (Aug 8, 2022)

soccerchaffeur said:


> My 2012, twin sons were in a tournament final this weekend. We've run into the opposing teams coach a few times over the past couple seasons, and this guy is always a huge douche bag...like next level douche. Yesterday, when one of our boys went down near his sideline, the coach quietly told him 'you're a flopper like Neymar and you're a terrible soccer player'. The kid broke down in tears after. My son heard him and told him to shut up. Mind you, my son is 9. Coach then got in a verbal confrontation with my boy! Why is this POS talking to our boys?!


Because no one calls him out to the community.  He is allowed to exist in anonymity, without anyone becoming wise to his behavior.  Let us know; what coach, what club, what team.  B2012 is way too vague.


----------



## soccerchaffeur (Aug 8, 2022)

Code said:


> Because no one calls him out to the community.  He is allowed to exist in anonymity, without anyone becoming wise to his behavior.  Let us know; what coach, what club, what team.  B2012 is way too vague.


Andy Barrero, Laguna United


----------



## mlx (Aug 8, 2022)

soccerchaffeur said:


> Andy Barrero, Laguna United


Report this coach to his club and to the league. 

Also, there’s a person in this forum who loses his shit when someone dares to call out a coach. He will threaten you about ending your son’s club “career” by telling all teams you are a trouble maker. Do not let that person intimidate you. He has no power whatsoever.


----------



## The Big Lewandowski (Aug 8, 2022)

mlx said:


> Report this coach to his club and to the league.


Andy is well known. The club is well aware


----------



## Kicker 2.0 (Aug 8, 2022)

soccerchaffeur said:


> Andy Barrero, Laguna United


Pretty sure he’s the same coach who had a team kicked out of State Cup for rostering a player from another team that lost earlier in State Cup. 

Quality guy!


----------



## NewUser27 (Aug 9, 2022)

here's some things that drive me nuts

parents coaching their kids from sidelines
parents sitting on wrong side 
parents that pay for privates from coach


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 9, 2022)

NewUser27 said:


> here's some things that drive me nuts
> 
> parents coaching their kids from sidelines
> parents sitting on wrong side
> parents that pay for privates from coach


Why does "parents that pay for privates from coach" bother you? What on earth could go wrong? Besides everything!


----------



## Chalklines (Aug 9, 2022)

My favorite's the parent who talks to the coach before during and after every practice and game. You know, the one who also picks up the coaches bar tab at tournaments and slips a little extra something in with the coaches gift when the seasons over for never taking their kid out of the game.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 9, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> My favorite's the parent who talks to the coach before during and after every practice and game. You know, the one who also picks up the coaches bar tab at tournaments and slips a little extra something in with the coaches gift when the seasons over for never taking their kid out of the game.


I'm guilty of giving the coaches a couple of $$$'s in a card after the season is over thanking them for working with my kid.


----------



## jojon (Aug 9, 2022)

The Big Lewandowski said:


> Andy is well known. The club is well aware


I watched his game last year, same coach but I believe the boys are 2013s. The parents and coach yelled at the ref the whole game and followed the ref into the parking lot trying to pick a fight. Real class act, the ref is at least 65 yr old. Parents and coaches are supporting each other. I think the kids will pick up the behavior soon.
I blame the tournament organizer and league officials for allowing this behavior with no punishment. They should at least disqualify them for the final.


----------



## NorCalUSN (Aug 9, 2022)

Sitting on the wrong side. Uggh.  
I think this a dumb rule, written or unwritten. 
The only place I shouldn't be allowed to sit/stand is near the bench so the coach can do his job, with no distractions. 
If parent is annoying and loud, yelling at their kid's play for 80-90 minutes, I could see it being a problem to the opposing team's parents, BUT, I wouldn't want that parent near me either, no matter who's team his kid plays for. 
You are there to watch your child play. 
Cheer them when they do well console them if they think they didn't. 
It's for them not you.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 9, 2022)

jojon said:


> I watched his game last year, same coach but I believe the boys are 2013s. The parents and coach yelled at the ref the whole game and followed the ref into the parking lot trying to pick a fight. Real class act, the ref is at least 65 yr old. Parents and coaches are supporting each other. I think the kids will pick up the behavior soon.
> I blame the tournament organizer and league officials for allowing this behavior with no punishment. They should at least disqualify them for the final.


I dont know this coach personally-  but watch a game that their director is the coach of (SN).  I think he mostly coaches older boys teams these days.  This will show you where the lessons in being a chirping d-bag come from.
But people must like it- this club seems to have grown over the years without having ECNL or similar higher level access.


----------



## MacDre (Aug 9, 2022)

NorCalUSN said:


> Sitting on the wrong side. Uggh.
> I think this a dumb rule, written or unwritten.
> The only place I shouldn't be allowed to sit/stand is near the bench so the coach can do his job, with no distractions.
> If parent is annoying and loud, yelling at their kid's play for 80-90 minutes, I could see it being a problem to the opposing team's parents, BUT, I wouldn't want that parent near me either, no matter who's team his kid plays for.
> ...


Spot on.  I go to games to support my kid, but I also go to games to stay connected with and support the youth in my community.  Oftentimes, I root for others kids more than I root for mine.  Any rule that mandates that parents can only sit with their team is lame, hostile, and hurts community!


----------



## Brav520 (Aug 9, 2022)

NorCalUSN said:


> Sitting on the wrong side. Uggh.
> I think this a dumb rule, written or unwritten.
> The only place I shouldn't be allowed to sit/stand is near the bench so the coach can do his job, with no distractions.
> If parent is annoying and loud, yelling at their kid's play for 80-90 minutes, I could see it being a problem to the opposing team's parents, BUT, I wouldn't want that parent near me either, no matter who's team his kid plays for.
> ...


I believe you will see this rule in tournaments 

so cal league may also have it


----------



## Brav520 (Aug 9, 2022)

MacDre said:


> Spot on.  I go to games to support my kid, but I also go to games to stay connected with and support the youth in my community.  Oftentimes, I root for others kids more than I root for mine.  Any rule that mandates that parents can only sit with their team is lame, hostile, and hurts community!


my guess is you would be in the minority, so that is why this rule is in place 

seems to me any time an opposing parent is on our side , they are almost always an asshole


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 9, 2022)

NewUser27 said:


> here's some things that drive me nuts
> 
> parents coaching their kids from sidelines
> parents sitting on wrong side
> parents that pay for privates from coach


I'm with you on the wrong side and on the paying for privates from coach (most of the time it feels like a side deal and most of the time they'd be better off getting privates from someone else anyway).  But, I've actually come around on coaching my own kid a little from the sidelines WITH THE CAVEATS that it is a short instruction, spoken and not yelled, that it isn't something we can work on outside the game context, AND I know what I am talking about.  

An example of that recently is that my kid was playing a less familiar 9 position and I explained onside diagonal runs quickly when they were out of possession.  8 years of club soccer and no coach ever explained it to her, yet it complete changed the game.  Her learning curve was much shorter when she was able to apply it immediately in-game.  I think coaches are dealing with so much during a game that they either can't notice or can't allocate time to individual positional pointers for all 11 players.


----------



## paytoplay (Aug 9, 2022)

Parents coaching from the sideline… We must not be paying to play enough for actual coaching, so we need dumbass parents coaching from the sideline? Another success of the pay-the-club system.


----------



## soccerchaffeur (Aug 9, 2022)

Brav520 said:


> my guess is you would be in the minority, so that is why this rule is in place
> 
> seems to me any time an opposing parent is on our side , they are almost always an asshole


This is a no-brainer. While we'd all love a 'everyone get along, let's be a big community!' world...this isn't reality. You stay on your side and we'll stay on ours. Parents are emotional...some WAYYYYYYYY more than others. Draw a line in the sand and keep it as civil as possible.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 9, 2022)

soccerchaffeur said:


> This is a no-brainer. While we'd all love a 'everyone get along, let's be a big community!' world...this isn't reality. You stay on your side and we'll stay on ours. Parents are emotional...some WAYYYYYYYY more than others. Draw a line in the sand and keep it as civil as possible.


Everyone is well behaved until they think someone wronged their kid (hard tackle, talking smack, making fun of their glasses or a parent saying something like "Dont let the fat kid beat you.  You are faster")

Then the only thing left to do is fight.


----------



## soccerchaffeur (Aug 9, 2022)

timbuck said:


> Everyone is well behaved until they think someone wronged their kid (hard tackle, talking smack, making fun of their glasses or a parent saying something like "Dont let the fat kid beat you.  You are faster")
> 
> Then the only thing left to do is fight.


I never give people, especially soccer parents, the benefit of the doubt. I've been around a little. Two daughters(06 & 08)and two boys(twins 12's). People are horrible! I was the rec/signature coach. Then I became a team manager(worst job I've ever had and never got paid for). I've seen it from all angles. Now, I'm just dad and try my best to make sure my kids are happy.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 9, 2022)

paytoplay said:


> Parents coaching from the sideline… We must not be paying to play enough for actual coaching, so we need dumbass parents coaching from the sideline? Another success of the pay-the-club system.


I am my child's personal coach, sports psychologist, nutritionist, agility and strength trainer, and sports agent.  The club coach can't do all those things and he/she lacks the wholistic vision to understand what my kid needs to play at her best in any given moment.  In addition, a coach often has competing or conflicting interests.  For me, the club just needs to provide opportunity and not provide a coach that is a jackass. 

I played and coached soccer for over 20 years and have been a fan of soccer when not playing or coaching.  If you look at elite players, how many of them have a parent behind them who was an athlete at a decent level as well?  It really looks like quite a few.


----------



## NorCalDad (Aug 9, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> I am my child's personal coach, sports psychologist, nutritionist, agility and strength trainer, and sports agent.  The club coach can't do all those things and he/she lacks the wholistic vision to understand what my kid needs to play at her best in any given moment.  In addition, a coach often has competing or conflicting interests.  For me, the club just needs to provide opportunity and not provide a coach that is a jackass.
> 
> I played and coached soccer for over 20 years and have been a fan of soccer when not playing or coaching.  If you look at elite players, how many of them have a parent behind them who was an athlete at a decent level as well?  It really looks like quite a few.


You're exactly the kind of parent I wouldn't want to sit next to.  In the end you probably don't know what you're talking about.  You should take on a coaching role if you want to coach.  Kids need to hear from one coach -- not a parent trying to live vicariously through them.  Just go enjoy watching your kids play the game.


----------



## JabroniBeater805 (Aug 9, 2022)

Brav520 said:


> my guess is you would be in the minority, so that is why this rule is in place
> 
> seems to me any time an opposing parent is on our side , they are almost always an asshole


Same- from my experience if an opposition parent is on our sideline during the game, they are yelling at their child and/or the referee in a harsh or aggressive manner. 

There is the occasional opposition parent who will come over mid-game and compliment your team but that is few and far between. Most of that interaction happens after the game.


----------



## Grace T. (Aug 9, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> You're exactly the kind of parent I wouldn't want to sit next to.  In the end you probably don't know what you're talking about.  You should take on a coaching role if you want to coach.  Kids need to hear from one coach -- not a parent trying to live vicariously through them.  Just go enjoy watching your kids play the game.


Both things can be simultaneously true: the coaches don't have time to focus on all 11 kids and their knowledge as to the particular position may be more limited than the parents & the kids need to hear from one coach and if all 11 parents shout out contradictory information which may not conform to the tactics and vision the coach has set out (e.g. play it long, play it short; pass it, shoot it) it causes chaos.  It's one of the major problems we have in American soccer: we are paying all this money and a lot of the education the kids are getting simply isn't good.

There's no good solution to this for the current generation.  There is a dearth of soccer knowledge out there even among very highly licensed coaches, and even to the extent there isn't, some of them well just don't know how to teach.  European tiered rec overcomes this because the coaches have mostly played the game their entire lives and religiously follow the sport and commentary (which is ubiquitous in Europe).  The next generation will have it better.  It's also one of the reasons, BTW, why AYSO rec fell apart: too many volunteer coaches who had never played and don't know what they are doing.  I've also generally found that the younger coaches out there seem to have a better understanding of the game, though it is not uniformly true.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 9, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> You're exactly the kind of parent I wouldn't want to sit next to.  In the end you probably don't know what you're talking about.  You should take on a coaching role if you want to coach.  Kids need to hear from one coach -- not a parent trying to live vicariously through them.  Just go enjoy watching your kids play the game.


You make a lot of assumptions based on the fact that I said I recently took about 5 seconds to explain diagonal runs to my daughter who didn't usually play forward in a game, and that it was something I only recently came around to.

Otherwise, I am talking about the fact that 90% of my daughter's preparation is with me and not in a game.

Most of my posts here are about not buying into the club kool aid and making sure kids focus on academics.

Please tell me more about me, though.


----------



## Soccer Dad & Ref (Aug 9, 2022)

Parents/coaches that speak to the opposing team's players in a disparaging way.  As a referee, I can't believe the stuff I hear adults say to little kids.

And yeah, you're paying way too much to the club to allow a dipshit parent to coach from the sidelines.

And also, yeah, sit in the same area as the other parents, no need to wander outside that area during the game unless you can be 100% mute (which i doubt, because you're already so wound up you can't sit still for 70-90 minutes)


----------



## timbuck (Aug 9, 2022)

The problem parents on the sidelines usually have a player that is a GK or a striker.

I've seen the following:  Parent says to his little super-striker "Takes shots.  This goalkeeper isn't as good as the one in the first half.  (or ive heard "this keeper sucks.)  This is said on the wrong sideline because striker dad feels the need to run along side of her/him while they are going to goal.
Keeper dad says "Shut you f*cking mouth or I'll shut it for you."

Anger ensues.

Or striker is going to goal and center back takes her out.  Striker dad wants a foul, a red card, a police investigation and revenge.  And they let everyone know it.


----------



## NorCalDad (Aug 9, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> Both things can be simultaneously true: the coaches don't have time to focus on all 11 kids and their knowledge as to the particular position may be more limited than the parents & the kids need to hear from one coach and if all 11 parents shout out contradictory information which may not conform to the tactics and vision the coach has set out (e.g. play it long, play it short; pass it, shoot it) it causes chaos.  It's one of the major problems we have in American soccer: we are paying all this money and a lot of the education the kids are getting simply isn't good.
> 
> There's no good solution to this for the current generation.  There is a dearth of soccer knowledge out there even among very highly licensed coaches, and even to the extent there isn't, some of them well just don't know how to teach.  European tiered rec overcomes this because the coaches have mostly played the game their entire lives and religiously follow the sport and commentary (which is ubiquitous in Europe).  The next generation will have it better.  It's also one of the reasons, BTW, why AYSO rec fell apart: too many volunteer coaches who had never played and don't know what they are doing.  I've also generally found that the younger coaches out there seem to have a better understanding of the game, though it is not uniformly true.


Definitely agree that coaching quality is pretty low in the US.  Pretty sure posts I've made elsewhere emphasize this.  I honestly think unless we're talking U10 and younger, there should be very little talking on both sidelines.  Coaches should coach pregame, halftime, postgame, and most importantly during training sessions (which should be more intense physically and mentally than games).   I also think veo/tracer systems are an excellent way for parents that are more involved to sit with their kids and talk about game.  I completely understand the situation where you don't agree with a coach's tactics or inability to focus on 11 players at the same time, but keeping quiet is absolutely the best approach for everyone involved.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 9, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> I completely understand the situation where you don't agree with a coach's tactics or inability to focus on 11 players at the same time, but keeping quiet is absolutely the best approach for everyone involved.


Not saying that I sit there and scream instructions at my kid like you imagine.

But, I am saying that there can be limited, opportune moments when a player can get a small piece of information in a live game situation and then get an immense benefit by applying it in that situation.  Game tape is one thing, but players learn a ton from trying new things in games and they don't always remember the game tape from two weeks ago.

A good coach will do that.  I've not seen that coach often.  If your kid isn't getting it at all from the coach, ever, absolute silence isn't the answer.  I'd advocate giving your kid that little bit of key information just before going back to coach at half time, if convenient.

Example could be if he plays centerback and is holding a high line flat-footed when the other centerback steps up to make a tackle.  At half time whistle-blow I wouldn't be against saying, quietly and privately, hey, when your other centerback steps up to make tackles, you have to be ready to drop and reform your line with the fullbacks in case the tackle is missed and the CAM makes a pass through that open space.

Crap coach will let 5 goals come through that way.  3 seconds with your kid in-game and they become better centerbacks for life.


----------



## NorCalDad (Aug 9, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> Not saying that I sit there and scream instructions at my kid like you imagine.
> 
> But, I am saying that there can be limited, opportune moments when a player can get a small piece of information in a live game situation and then get an immense benefit by applying it in that situation.  Game tape is one thing, but players learn a ton from trying new things in games and they don't always remember the game tape from two weeks ago.
> 
> ...


Kids need to learn at their own pace.  If your kid was in a play at school and they weren't hitting the notes right, would you say something mid play (even if quietly)?  I've also found that when I'm watching the game in real time my observations aren't always 100% correct.  That's where film comes in.  I've had moments where I've gone "Oh, that's what they were seeing and that's why they did that".  I totally get the frustration around coaches that aren't great (or just flat out bad).  We've all experienced them.  That's when I go to the DoC and give my feedback.  That said, kids need to learn to listen to their coach (obviously, unless they harming them).  The other thing I've seen is parents "quietly" coaching their kids on the sideline, yet 2-3 other players look over when it happens.  It's just distracting for everyone.  My recommendation is to reach out to the coach (at least 24 hours after a game) and share your observations.


----------



## Grace T. (Aug 9, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> My recommendation is to reach out to the coach (at least 24 hours after a game) and share your observations.


Depends on the coach but that rarely goes well.  Firstly, you better have the credential or have played yourself in college.  Secondly, many of them are so insecure (knowing they have limited knowledge and it might not be going well) and thin skinned that you won't make yourself a favorite if you "share your observations".  Third, it requires building a relationship of trust which goes two ways between coach and parent because usually it will read to the coach "let me share with you my observations about how you are screwing up".  Fourth, it's a tactic that should only be used sparingly for some obvious problem or you'll make a nuisance of yourself.   I say this as someone who has much better knowledge of my son's position and with a higher credential than most of the coach's my son has taken with, and who made quite a few mistakes early on in his career.

The issue with film is that until they hit a certain age, the brain just simply isn't wired to learn that way.  The issue with talking to them after is that at first they are wound up and don't need a lecture from the parent of everything they've done wrong, and then afterwards they've moved on and already thrown the memory into the garbage bin.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 9, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> Kids need to learn at their own pace.  If your kid was in a play at school and they weren't hitting the notes right, would you say something mid play (even if quietly)?  I've also found that when I'm watching the game in real time my observations aren't always 100% correct.  That's where film comes in.  I've had moments where I've gone "Oh, that's what they were seeing and that's why they did that".  I totally get the frustration around coaches that aren't great (or just flat out bad).  We've all experienced them.  That's when I go to the DoC and give my feedback.  That said, kids need to learn to listen to their coach (obviously, unless they harming them).  The other thing I've seen is parents "quietly" coaching their kids on the sideline, yet 2-3 other players look over when it happens.  It's just distracting for everyone.  My recommendation is to reach out to the coach (at least 24 hours after a game) and share your observations.


LOL at the coach that sucks at coaching and the parent going to the coach sharing observations.  LOL at going to the DOC.

You seem to have a real fairytale version of the maturity levels of coaches. DOCs and coaches see you talking to them as a nuisance at best and an assault on them personally at worst.  I envy your world view.

From 3 years old to 18, my kid has one consistent soccer trainer.  That's me.  These coaches and clubs will come and go.  In terms of how other parents view me whispering to my kid for 3 seconds at half time, I could care less.  My kid wouldn't put up with me yelling at her in a game and is old enough to give me the stink eye if she thinks the other kids are side-eyeing it. She's captained ECNL and played high-level long enough to know what got her there.


----------



## crush (Aug 9, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> I am my child's personal coach, sports psychologist, nutritionist, agility and strength trainer, and sports agent.  The club coach can't do all those things and he/she lacks the wholistic vision to understand what my kid needs to play at her best in any given moment.  In addition, a coach often has competing or conflicting interests.  For me, the club just needs to provide opportunity and not provide a coach that is a jackass.
> 
> I played and coached soccer for over 20 years and have been a fan of soccer when not playing or coaching.  If you look at elite players, how many of them have a parent behind them who was an athlete at a decent level as well?  It really looks like quite a few.


I am coach dad in all area's as well bro and I will coach when needed to help my baby girl win soccer games or games that life throws at her.  One time, the score was 1-1 and we had to win to advance to the QFs. 5 minutes left on my buddies stop watch. My kid had that look of a miracle and I just yelled at her, "Hey girl, triple scoop at Thrifty's if you can get the goal or assist." Yes, Nocal types dad gave me that look of, "dude, no coaching from sidelines." Anyway, she scored and we won the whole tournament. As a coach dad, you need to know when to motivate. I never used negative crap like another dad I knew. This guy took his dd phone away for missing a PK. I only use positive reinforcement. I also had to tell her a few times, "don;t listen to that jacko coach going off screaming at you. Tune that fool out and go ball."


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 9, 2022)

How about this for something that drives me nuts:

I have never seen a coach give my kid a heads up when he is going to put her in an unfamiliar position next game.

IN WHAT WORLD IS THIS AN ACCEPTABLE COACHING  STRATEGY.  Bullcrap forces me to coach in-game.


----------



## NorCalDad (Aug 9, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> Depends on the coach but that rarely goes well.  Firstly, you better have the credential or have played yourself in college.  Secondly, many of them are so insecure (knowing they have limited knowledge and it might not be going well) and thin skinned that you won't make yourself a favorite if you "share your observations".  Third, it requires building a relationship of trust which goes two ways between coach and parent because usually it will read to the coach "let me share with you my observations about how you are screwing up".  Fourth, it's a tactic that should only be used sparingly for some obvious problem or you'll make a nuisance of yourself.   I say this as someone who has much better knowledge of my son's position and with a higher credential than most of the coach's my son has taken with, and who made quite a few mistakes early on in his career.
> 
> The issue with film is that until they hit a certain age, the brain just simply isn't wired to learn that way.  The issue with talking to them after is that at first they are wound up and don't need a lecture from the parent of everything they've done wrong, and then afterwards they've moved on and already thrown the memory into the garbage bin.


I think out of the 20+ coaches we've experienced in this journey, only one wasn't open to feedback/dialog and was pretty arrogant.  Keep in mind the feedback isn't "Hey you need to do X,Y, and Z".  It's "Hey I noticed my player is doing X, what are your thoughts on that?".  You have to make it collaborative.  It's not unlike how I work with my kids teachers.  

My kids watch the film on their own and talk about it later.  They enjoy that part of it.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 9, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> I think out of the 20+ coaches we've experienced in this journey, only one wasn't open to feedback/dialog and was pretty arrogant.  Keep in mind the feedback isn't "Hey you need to do X,Y, and Z".  It's "Hey I noticed my player is doing X, what are your thoughts on that?".  You have to make it collaborative.  It's not unlike how I work with my kids teachers.
> 
> My kids watch the film on their own and talk about it later.  They enjoy that part of it.


I think people in NorCal are generally a bit better about communication.  SoCal is very combative.  Count yourself fortunate.

After watching game video once on a new team, I noticed that the backline cleared the ball every time and completed 0 passes to my daughter at CDM in a game.  I sent a very middle of the road email to the coach asking if this was something they were working on because she likes to connect from the back.  My first time with anything resembling criticism.

He told me to stay in my lane and if I couldn't do that he could release her.  I did stay in my lane, which was finding a non-combative coach on a new team.  That coach no longer coaches.


----------



## NorCalDad (Aug 9, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> How about this for something that drives me nuts:
> 
> I have never seen a coach give my kid a heads up when he is going to put her in an unfamiliar position next game.
> 
> IN WHAT WORLD IS THIS AN ACCEPTABLE COACHING  STRATEGY.  Bullcrap forces me to coach in-game.


I actually love this -- kids should have familiarity with every position.  It will benefit them greatly as they go to ID camps, etc.  The only problem I have with it is the parents on the sidelines caring more about results than development.  They all get twisted into knots as if it's a world cup game.  One of our kids coaches did this and now he can play pretty much any position (of course he has his home positions).  Admittedly it's nerve wracking as you just want your kid to contribute in a positive way regardless of where they play, but it's definitely worth it.  The coach should most certainly communicate this philosophy early on in the season.


----------



## NorCalDad (Aug 9, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> I think people in NorCal are generally a bit better about communication.  SoCal is very combative.  Count yourself fortunate.
> 
> After watching game video once on a new team, I noticed that the backline cleared the ball every time and completed 0 passes to my daughter at CDM in a game.  I sent a very middle of the road email to the coach asking if this was something they were working on because she likes to connect from the back.  My first time with anything resembling criticism.
> 
> He told me to stay in my lane and if I couldn't do that he could release her.  I did stay in my lane, which was finding a non-combative coach on a new team.  That coach no longer coaches.


Coaches not advocating for building out of the back is probably one of my biggest frustrations (it's so rampant on the girls side).  So I get where you're coming from.  I've had to bite my lip many times over.  The worst is when a club doesn't have consistent tactics between age groups.  I chalk it all up to "this is life -- it's never perfect".   I then work with my kid on the things that could help their own game regardless of the coaches tactics.  We're not club hoppers, but if it was the first year for the coach to have the team and I knew they'd be with the team for 2 or more years, we'd be shopping around immediately.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 9, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> I actually love this -- kids should have familiarity with every position.  It will benefit them greatly as they go to ID camps, etc.  The only problem I have with it is the parents on the sidelines caring more about results than development.  They all get twisted into knots as if it's a world cup game.  One of our kids coaches did this and now he can play pretty much any position (of course he has his home positions).  Admittedly it's nerve wracking as you just want your kid to contribute in a positive way regardless of where they play, but it's definitely worth it.  The coach should most certainly communicate this philosophy early on in the season.


My kid can play every position.  If this was AYSO, then whatever.  But my daughter wants to show well and contribute to team play, not run around uselessly.

If she hasn't played central attacking mid for 6 months she wants to do a specialized training a day or two before to shake off some rust.

One f'ing text message, she would appreciate.  It's called common courtesy. I don't know why you wouldn't want this.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 9, 2022)

In addition to pop-up positioning, how about if coaches actually had a discussion with your kid about why they are starting some other kid over him.

It's not crazy.  In professional soccer, you have to manage the psychology. There would be a discussion if a player needed to show something different to start, and the coach would break the news in advance to the player.


----------



## VanMan (Aug 9, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> In addition to pop-up positioning, how about if coaches actually had a discussion with your kid about why they are starting some other kid over him.
> 
> It's not crazy.  In professional soccer, you have to manage the psychology. There would be a discussion if a player needed to show something different to start, and the coach would break the news in advance to the player.


I think the general theme is "Coaches who don't communicate."

Coaches should have direct conversations with each player on what they need to work on to get better, at every level, and then give ongoing feedback on how they're progressing.  Managing expectations on the regular leads to less awkward/awful surprises for everyone.

Too few do this.


----------



## focomoso (Aug 9, 2022)

Brav520 said:


> seems to me any time an opposing parent is on our side , they are almost always an asshole


Hear, hear! They're either clueless (don't know the rules) or trolling.


----------



## Jar!23 (Aug 9, 2022)

Some things I’ve observed from last season:
 Maybe it’s not that big of a deal where I am but parents seem to sit wherever they want.  Most of the time, they are set up and settled before the team goes to their side of the field.  With fields being booked back to back, there isn’t a lot of time for the team to set up.  On hot days most people go find shade wherever that may be.  
It’s annoying to get the end of week emails from coaches asking parents/players to respond as to whether they are going to the weekend games.  How hard is to to say yes or no on the app?  I get that some parents have work schedules that don’t get scheduled until later in the week but it seems pretty routine on my kid’s team to have several players who don’t respond.
Parents who talk to their players during the game, walk over to the team bench during half time, or chat with the coach consistently before, during and after practices don’t realize how they look, how their kid wishes they would stop and how much the coach hates them.
Parents who get hung up on their kid playing a particular position or not playing a particular position ultimately hurt the team.  I watched a guardian yank his player off the field before the game when he saw that the coach out him in goal.  

My younger kid just finished his rec season.  It was so much fun watching kids be kids.  If I had to start over, I don’t know if I would have started my older one in club soccer.


----------



## dad4 (Aug 10, 2022)

MacDre said:


> Spot on.  I go to games to support my kid, but I also go to games to stay connected with and support the youth in my community.  Oftentimes, I root for others kids more than I root for mine.  Any rule that mandates that parents can only sit with their team is lame, hostile, and hurts community!


The rule wasn't created for supportive parents who cheer for both teams.  

It was created to keep the hot heads away from each other, so they don't ruin a kids' game with an adult fight.

If you're walking the sidelines saying nice things about both sides, I doubt you get much flak.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 10, 2022)

dad4 said:


> The rule wasn't created for supportive parents who cheer for both teams.
> 
> It was created to keep the hot heads away from each other, so they don't ruin a kids' game with an adult fight.
> 
> If you're walking the sidelines saying nice things about both sides, I doubt you get much flak.


Once you start getting to the higher levels + ages of youth soccer all the parents pretty much know each other in one way or other. This is when you start seeing parents from different teams hanging out on the sidelines.

When you've been going to the same tournaments with the sameish people for 10+ years usually the topic discussed is how annoying youth soccer can be. But, you keep doing it because its something your kid loves.

Generally the ones that want to fight are at the younger and lower levels. This is because soccer when the games are close can they be 60+ minutes of tension. Americans parents used to this type of action + can get frustrated and lash out. Over time soccer will grind even the craziest parents desire to fight out of them. Sometimes it just takes a while for this to occur.


----------



## crush (Aug 10, 2022)

I had one dad tell me I better not show my face at Silverlake's and if I did happen to be walking towards him, it would best for me to turn around. I also had a very rich dad grab me by the back of the neck because???  I have it all on why they did this to me. Happy Whacky Wednesday frens.


----------



## Grace T. (Aug 10, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Once you start getting to the higher levels + ages of youth soccer all the parents pretty much know each other in one way or other. This is when you start seeing parents from different teams hanging out on the sidelines.
> 
> When you've been going to the same tournaments with the sameish people for 10+ years usually the topic discussed is how annoying youth soccer can be. But, you keep doing it because its something your kid loves.
> 
> Generally the ones that want to fight are at the younger and lower levels. This is because soccer when the games are close can they be 60+ minutes of tension. Americans parents used to this type of action + can get frustrated and lash out. Over time soccer will grind even the craziest parents desire to fight out of them. Sometimes it just takes a while for this to occur.


As they get older and at higher levels, a bunch of things start to even out as well: the kids who could overpower a team and win it just by running the ball and running up the score 12-0 can't do it anymore, the keepers begin to become competent and big enough they can cover the goals and not just have balls banged over them every single time, everyone gets to be a similar size so it's harder to just bang players off the ball.

The biggest risk, particularly among the boys as they become full blown men, is fighting.  The boys fight and then the parents intervene and that leads to more fighting.  And that usually happens because the ref has usually lost control early in the game by not calling a handful of egregious fouls, a really bad injury threatening the health of a player occurs, and everyone loses their s.  It's what you see in the fight videos in the papers and online.


----------



## VanMan (Aug 10, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Once you start getting to the higher levels + ages of youth soccer all the parents pretty much know each other in one way or other. This is when you start seeing parents from different teams hanging out on the sidelines.
> 
> When you've been going to the same tournaments with the sameish people for 10+ years usually the topic discussed is how annoying youth soccer can be. But, you keep doing it because its something your kid loves.
> 
> Generally the ones that want to fight are at the younger and lower levels. This is because soccer when the games are close can they be 60+ minutes of tension. Americans parents used to this type of action + can get frustrated and lash out. Over time soccer will grind even the craziest parents desire to fight out of them. Sometimes it just takes a while for this to occur.


The rule really is about the "exceptional" people that just can't control themselves.  They exist at all levels, but are certainly easier to find in the  younger/lower levels.  That being said, teams that are struggling to keep up with the competition or teams that are used to winning getting shocked seems to bring out the crazy too. 

It's too bad the rule can't just be "if you're going to be an a$$hole you need to stay on your team's sideline" so everyone else didn't have to suffer.


----------



## socalkdg (Aug 10, 2022)

Head coaches don't get goalkeepers.  Play out of the back, so she does.  Defense makes bad touch and lose the ball, then she gets yelled out. How about teach better touches.  Stay on your line,  no, cover your 6, sorry meant the whole 18, oh wait, I mean our half of the field.   Your in charge of how many in the wall, then they yell 4 in the wall. 

Looking forward to college where her head coach is a former goalkeeper and she will have a full time goalkeeper coach talking to her constantly.  Had a chance at camp for her to train and play with the current keepers and you can see the excitement for the game in her eyes again.


----------



## Mystery Train (Aug 10, 2022)

socalkdg said:


> Head coaches don't get goalkeepers.  Play out of the back, so she does.  Defense makes bad touch and lose the ball, then she gets yelled out. How about teach better touches.  Stay on your line,  no, cover your 6, sorry meant the whole 18, oh wait, I mean our half of the field.   Your in charge of how many in the wall, then they yell 4 in the wall.
> 
> Looking forward to college where her head coach is a former goalkeeper and she will have a full time goalkeeper coach talking to her constantly.  Had a chance at camp for her to train and play with the current keepers and you can see the excitement for the game in her eyes again.


I can attest to all of this above.  Add to that all the unrealistic "shooting drills" they do in practice, with two or three lines of attacking players alternating uncontested shots inside the 18 every 4 seconds and counting that as GK training.  They might as well put a monkey in goal for all the good that does anyone.  

So lucky your kid has a former GK as head coach!  My daughter's best youth coach was a former GK as well.  Makes all the difference.


----------



## MacDre (Aug 10, 2022)

socalkdg said:


> Head coaches don't get goalkeepers.  Play out of the back, so she does.  Defense makes bad touch and lose the ball, then she gets yelled out. How about teach better touches.  Stay on your line,  no, cover your 6, sorry meant the whole 18, oh wait, I mean our half of the field.   Your in charge of how many in the wall, then they yell 4 in the wall.
> 
> Looking forward to college where her head coach is a former goalkeeper and she will have a full time goalkeeper coach talking to her constantly.  Had a chance at camp for her to train and play with the current keepers and you can see the excitement for the game in her eyes again.


Why do you think the problem is limited to keepers?  Coming from an American Football (AF) background, I think clubs and colleges (maybe pros too) are understaffed because a head coach is trying to monitor and teach approximately 20 or more players in different positions simultaneously.  In AF, practice is often broken down into positions with position specific coaches; offensive line, running backs, wide receivers, DB’s etc.

When I look at college rosters they look understaffed and I don’t see position specific coaches either!

Can someone please explain why soccer teams don’t have position specific coaches?


----------



## Grace T. (Aug 10, 2022)

MacDre said:


> Why do you think the problem is limited to keepers?  Coming from an American Football (AF) background, I think clubs and colleges (maybe pros too) are understaffed because a head coach is trying to monitor and teach approximately 20 or more players in different positions simultaneously.  In AF, practice is often broken down into positions with position specific coaches; offensive line, running backs, wide receivers, DB’s etc.
> 
> When I look at college rosters they look understaffed and I don’t see position specific coaches either!
> 
> Can someone please explain why soccer teams don’t have position specific coaches?


1. $.  Soccer doesn't have gridiron's football.  The top flight 1 European clubs do....even going so far as to hire throw in specialists or corner/DFK specialists.
2. Unlike gridiron football, it's not easily broken up into defensive, offensive and special teams.
3. There is a position with a special coach: goalkeepers.  But on anything less than the academy level, the goalkeeper coach rarely is in regular communication with the team head coach, doesn't usually attend team practices where some of the actual drills (such as corner/dfk/sweeping practice) is being done, and rarely ever attends games.
4. Soccer even in Europe is organized more hierarchical.  The head coach is responsible for all strategy (even if he may be weaker in defense than offense, for example), and there aren't the time outs where specialist coaches can help and consult the coach.  So if the throw in coach is telling the player to throw it backwards, but the head coach wants it down the line, it's a problem.  American gridiron football is slower paced which lends it, like baseball, to more of a coaching team.


----------



## Mystery Train (Aug 10, 2022)

MacDre said:


> Why do you think the problem is limited to keepers?  Coming from an American Football (AF) background, I think clubs and colleges (maybe pros too) are understaffed because a head coach is trying to monitor and teach approximately 20 or more players in different positions simultaneously.  In AF, practice is often broken down into positions with position specific coaches; offensive line, running backs, wide receivers, DB’s etc.
> 
> When I look at college rosters they look understaffed and I don’t see position specific coaches either!
> 
> Can someone please explain why soccer teams don’t have position specific coaches?


Your observation that they are understaffed is totally accurate.  Grace is right that the budget is the big difference.  Even at high level colleges with "elite" soccer programs, the attention paid to GK's is laughable compared to American Football as you described.  I think it's partly a thing with soccer culture as well that will eventually evolve.  The European pro leagues took a long time coming around to recognizing the importance of specialized, position specific training for keepers, and it's starting to trickle down to youth soccer.  My DD's college coach who has been at the college level for more than a decade, just now implemented a separate fitness test for GK's for the first time ever, which is something I've been soapboxing about ever since my kid started playing keeper.  Why coaches make GK's do long distance running and 800's to the same standard as a field player never made a damn bit of sense to me.  I can't believe more programs don't do the same.


----------



## Jamisfoes (Aug 10, 2022)

Snowflake kids that skip practice because the coach yelled at them in the last practice.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 10, 2022)

Jamisfoes said:


> Snowflake kids that skip practice because the coach yelled at them in the last practice.


What's the issue with this?

Easy way to define who goes to the next level + who doesnt.


----------



## Jar!23 (Aug 10, 2022)

Jamisfoes said:


> Snowflake kids that skip practice because the coach yelled at them in the last practice.


Why does a coach need to yell at all?


----------



## Soccer Dad & Ref (Aug 10, 2022)

Jar!23 said:


> Why does a coach need to yell at all?


because they’re 100% convinced the louder they are at practices and games, the higher their retention rate will be.


----------



## Jamisfoes (Aug 11, 2022)

Jar!23 said:


> Why does a coach need to yell at all?


Some kids deserved it?


----------



## dad4 (Aug 11, 2022)

Jamisfoes said:


> Some kids deserved it?


If you yell at kids because they deserve it, don’t turn around and complain that they didn’t show up to be yelled at the next day.

What did you think would happen?  If you make people feel miserable, they’ll find better things to do with their time.


----------



## Jar!23 (Aug 11, 2022)

I guess it's just my personal viewpoint and personality.  In my personal and professional life, I've never really had to yell at people and especially not at kids.  Anger is such a turn off.  Coaches and parents who yell at players and refs goes on top of my club soccer stuff that drives my nuts list.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 11, 2022)

MacDre said:


> Why do you think the problem is limited to keepers?  Coming from an American Football (AF) background, I think clubs and colleges (maybe pros too) are understaffed because a head coach is trying to monitor and teach approximately 20 or more players in different positions simultaneously.  In AF, practice is often broken down into positions with position specific coaches; offensive line, running backs, wide receivers, DB’s etc.
> 
> When I look at college rosters they look understaffed and I don’t see position specific coaches either!
> 
> Can someone please explain why soccer teams don’t have position specific coaches?


I dont know the details of how American Football coaches are paid at the HS level-  I "think" that a lot of the position coaches are paid very minimally.
The reason you dont see many club soccer teams with more than 1 coach is because that head coach is not willing to give up any of the money that they make.  And the clubs can't charge enough to pay for more than 1 coach (heck - most coaches are coaching 3-4 teams).


----------



## Jamisfoes (Aug 11, 2022)

dad4 said:


> If you yell at kids because they deserve it, don’t turn around and complain that they didn’t show up to be yelled at the next day.
> 
> What did you think would happen?  If you make people feel miserable, they’ll find better things to do with their time.


If a kid continues to screw up after repeated warning not to do it, I don't have a problem with the coach raising his voice.


----------



## VanMan (Aug 11, 2022)

Jamisfoes said:


> If a kid continues to screw up after repeated warning not to do it, I don't have a problem with the coach raising his voice.


Guess it depends on what prompted the yelling or what you consider to be "screwing up".  Is it goofing off or other behavior making it difficult for the coach to get their job done?  That can be understandable, to a point.

Is it that the kid keeps missing a read, is out of position or taking bad touches?   That's a different animal altogether.  Now you're into teaching/learning and I've never seen a kid learn more by yelling at them, but I have seen them get upset, frustrated and want to quit whatever the activity is.

Also depends on what the content is of the yelling... "Push up!" or "open up!"  are a lot different than "are you stupid?" or "what's wrong with you?"
If a kid or parent wants some time to consider whether they want to play for a coach who says/yells stuff like that, it's all good by me.


----------



## Cruzer (Aug 11, 2022)

A new item that drives me nuts came up a few weeks ago: At a tournament, when the 2nd place parents (I won't say team since the kids do not normally have a say) don't have good sportsmanship to come together after the game during the medal ceremony.
We were all looking around and saw the parents about 40 feet away ignoring us while the kids were looking over. We waved them over and the parents declined while the kids started to walk over, and were stopped by the parents. Classless and teaches your kids the same.


----------



## NewUser27 (Aug 11, 2022)

timbuck said:


> I dont know the details of how American Football coaches are paid at the HS level-  I "think" that a lot of the position coaches are paid very minimally.
> The reason you dont see many club soccer teams with more than 1 coach is because that head coach is not willing to give up any of the money that they make.  And the clubs can't charge enough to pay for more than 1 coach (heck - most coaches are coaching 3-4 teams).


This could be true but you need to look at this from two view points
Professional MLS clubs have 5 coaches on the field, coaching paid for by academy.
Smaller local clubs have one coach , lets say two max (assistant or older kid helping)
Smaller local club charges 3k per kid, meaning 54k a year from that team with 18 rostered
Obviously field rent take alot of that , but its not uncommon for a coach to be paid 11-1400 per team a month at club level.
so a coach can make 4k a month with 4 teams, is that far off from the truth????


----------



## espola (Aug 11, 2022)

NewUser27 said:


> This could be true but you need to look at this from two view points
> Professional MLS clubs have 5 coaches on the field, coaching paid for by academy.
> Smaller local clubs have one coach , lets say two max (assistant or older kid helping)
> Smaller local club charges 3k per kid, meaning 54k a year from that team with 18 rostered
> ...


I would run away from any coach who had 4 teams.


----------



## Chalklines (Aug 11, 2022)

Cruzer said:


> A new item that drives me nuts came up a few weeks ago: At a tournament, when the 2nd place parents (I won't say team since the kids do not normally have a say) don't have good sportsmanship to come together after the game during the medal ceremony.
> We were all looking around and saw the parents about 40 feet away ignoring us while the kids were looking over. We waved them over and the parents declined while the kids started to walk over, and were stopped by the parents. Classless and teaches your kids the same.


Do we really need a second place medal ceremony past U9?

But.....

Yes, its 2022 and its always snowing these days so it wouldn't surprise me if professional sports started to adopt a second place trophy ceremony and city parade


----------



## espola (Aug 11, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> Do we really need a second place medal ceremony past U9?
> 
> But.....
> 
> Yes, its 2022 and its always snowing these days so it wouldn't surprise me if professional sports started to adopt a second place trophy ceremony and city parade


Some adult championships have 3rd place playoffs.  I don't know if the 4th-place team gets anything.


----------



## Chalklines (Aug 11, 2022)

espola said:


> Some adult championships have 3rd place playoffs.  I don't know if the 4th-place team gets anything.


Maybe in Fantasy Football when there's a 3rd place pay-out


----------



## mlx (Aug 11, 2022)

Cruzer said:


> A new item that drives me nuts came up a few weeks ago: At a tournament, when the 2nd place parents (I won't say team since the kids do not normally have a say) don't have good sportsmanship to come together after the game during the medal ceremony.
> We were all looking around and saw the parents about 40 feet away ignoring us while the kids were looking over. We waved them over and the parents declined while the kids started to walk over, and were stopped by the parents. Classless and teaches your kids the same.


I'm going to make a wild guess here. Was the team any of the Slammers?


----------



## VanMan (Aug 11, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> Do we really need a second place medal ceremony past U9?
> 
> But.....
> 
> Yes, its 2022 and its always snowing these days so it wouldn't surprise me if professional sports started to adopt a second place trophy ceremony and city parade


Pretty sure the medals are presented to the runner up in just about every soccer tournament, from kiddie to the World Cup(s).


----------



## Mystery Train (Aug 11, 2022)

Jamisfoes said:


> If a kid continues to screw up after repeated warning not to do it, I don't have a problem with the coach raising his voice.


I've been thinking about this discussion and while I definitely don't like screamers/yellers as a general rule, I thought back to some of my daughter's best coaches and recognized that they definitely yelled from time to time.  But, I realized that it's the content of the communication, not the volume of it that really matters.  A coach can whisper sh*tty things to a player and it could be abusive.  My DD had one coach who was yelling so much (in Spanish) at other players in her first practice that she almost walked off the field, she was so intimidated.  However, that guy turned out to be the most caring, supportive, and long lasting coaching relationship of her youth career.  He yelled, but he never yelled demeaning things.  He would also make sure to yell his praise even louder than his displeasure, and always ended practice by shaking hands of every single player and thanking them for coming.  He could yell and be loud, but he was never disrespectful, just intense and passionate.  

I once heard an interview with Tony Dungy where he talked about how counterproductive yelling is as a teaching and motivational technique.  I do think it can be useful for good coaches who care and are able to demonstrate that care, but if you have coaches who yell AND don't give a sh*t about how their players feel, that's a baaaad combo.


----------



## espola (Aug 11, 2022)

Mystery Train said:


> I've been thinking about this discussion and while I definitely don't like screamers/yellers as a general rule, I thought back to some of my daughter's best coaches and recognized that they definitely yelled from time to time.  But, I realized that it's the content of the communication, not the volume of it that really matters.  A coach can whisper sh*tty things to a player and it could be abusive.  My DD had one coach who was yelling so much (in Spanish) at other players in her first practice that she almost walked off the field, she was so intimidated.  However, that guy turned out to be the most caring, supportive, and long lasting coaching relationship of her youth career.  He yelled, but he never yelled demeaning things.  He would also make sure to yell his praise even louder than his displeasure, and always ended practice by shaking hands of every single player and thanking them for coming.  He could yell and be loud, but he was never disrespectful, just intense and passionate.
> 
> I once heard an interview with Tony Dungy where he talked about how counterproductive yelling is as a teaching and motivational technique.  I do think it can be useful for good coaches who care and are able to demonstrate that care, but if you have coaches who yell AND don't give a sh*t about how their players feel, that's a baaaad combo.


There is a difference between yelling and talking really loud.


----------



## Jamisfoes (Aug 11, 2022)

I would definitely put the said coach in the intese, passionate, no nonsense category. He treats everyone fairly. This coach sometimes stays 30min overtime to let the kids finish scrimmage. Afterwards sits the group down to go over what they learned that day.


----------



## Cruzer (Aug 11, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> Do we really need a second place medal ceremony past U9?


Talk about missing the whole point...
But yes, runner-ups get a medal, too. It's been like that for the last 3 years that I have been part of tournaments.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 11, 2022)

Cruzer said:


> Talk about missing the whole point...
> But yes, runner-ups get a medal, too. It's been like that for the last 3 years that I have been part of tournaments.


We don't need any of it.  You celebrate while the other team cries, you hear the lamentations of their parents, and make them soak in defeat on the way home.  Better than any stupid trophy.


----------



## mlx (Aug 11, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> We don't need any of it.  You celebrate while the other team cries, you hear the lamentations of their parents, and make them soak in defeat on the way home.  Better than any stupid trophy.


As a staunch and typical republican, you are missing the point completely.


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Aug 11, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Once you start getting to the higher levels + ages of youth soccer all the parents pretty much know each other in one way or other. This is when you start seeing parents from different teams hanging out on the sidelines.


This was generally our experience.  Of course, there were occasional exceptions.  And, for the guys olders, the exceptions could devolve into situations that got spectacularly bad.  There was a funny one, however.  A brown paper bag dad on the sideline yelling smack.  Ref does the card the Dad thing, tells him game is stopped until he leaves. People start to get hot.  Then the kid on the field goes "Dad if you don't shut up and get out of here I'm going to come over there and kick your ass". Everybody laughs, Dad leaves, game keeps going without real further incident.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 11, 2022)

mlx said:


> As a staunch and typical republican, you are missing the point completely.


As a stauncher and devouter republican, I want a trophy as long as the other team pays for it.


----------



## SuperSoccerFan619 (Aug 12, 2022)

What drive’s me crazy about club soccer are the crazy parents who like to point fingers at other kids weaknesses and suggesting ideas on how and where they should go to improve. Ok, coach.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 12, 2022)

SuperSoccerFan619 said:


> What drive’s me crazy about club soccer are the crazy parents who like to point fingers at other kids weaknesses and suggesting ideas on how and where they should go to improve. Ok, coach.


Respond with "Thank you for your assessment. I'm so glad you provided an opinion regarding where my kid can improve. Theres so many parents on the team that have wanted to provide their feedback on where your kid isnt doing very well but we weren't sure how to approach you about it." ;-)


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 12, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Respond with "Thank you for your assessment. I'm so glad you provided an opinion regarding where my kid can improve. Theres so many parents on the team that have wanted to provide their feedback on where your kid isnt doing very well but we weren't sure how to approach you about it." ;-)


Its always stuff we are already doing, so no biggie.  I usually ask for things in their area of expertise, like if they have any pointers for how my daughter can put on some weight around the hips and mid-section.


----------



## whatithink (Aug 12, 2022)

MacDre said:


> Why do you think the problem is limited to keepers?  Coming from an American Football (AF) background, I think clubs and colleges (maybe pros too) are understaffed because a head coach is trying to monitor and teach approximately 20 or more players in different positions simultaneously.  In AF, practice is often broken down into positions with position specific coaches; offensive line, running backs, wide receivers, DB’s etc.
> 
> When I look at college rosters they look understaffed and I don’t see position specific coaches either!
> 
> Can someone please explain why soccer teams don’t have position specific coaches?


Its about attention to detail at the highest level, e.g.

Liverpool throw-in coach confirms new contract into 5th season - Liverpool FC - This Is Anfield


----------



## Soccermom18 (Aug 12, 2022)

Parents who used to play soccer 20+ years ago that remind everyone they used to play.  No one cares.  Not even your kid.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Aug 13, 2022)

Parents that think they are experts in soccer (even though they have never played a game in their life) and yell ridiculous things


----------



## EvilGoalie 21 (Aug 13, 2022)

whatithink said:


> Its about attention to detail at the highest level, e.g.
> 
> Liverpool throw-in coach confirms new contract into 5th season - Liverpool FC - This Is Anfield


Fewer 50-50 throw-ins makes sense.  But if he got Alexander-Arnold to start doing flip throws than I'd really be a believer.


----------



## NewUser27 (Aug 14, 2022)

Parents that yell off sides while sitting in the beach chair 
Parents that dont say hi to other parents on their team 
Parents that dont say hi to your kid out of spite too.


----------



## crush (Aug 14, 2022)

Parents who yell, "go" "run" "kick it" "don't stop"
Parents who snub their nose at you and have so much money they can buy a position, starts and unlimited play time
Parents who think their life is better because they have more $$$ to spend on play time then you do


----------



## justneededaname (Aug 14, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> Do we really need a second place medal ceremony past U9?


I don't know about U9, but certainly by the time they are high school age, the kids who lost in the finals should just get to go home. They don't want to be sitting there as much as the parents don't want to be standing there.


----------



## Soccermom18 (Aug 14, 2022)

NewUser27 said:


> Parents that dont say hi to your kid out of spite too.


It’s just out of jealousy.  They probably think your kid  stole playing time from theirs or took their child’s starting position.


----------



## Larzby (Aug 14, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> You're exactly the kind of parent I wouldn't want to sit next to.  In the end you probably don't know what you're talking about.  You should take on a coaching role if you want to coach.  Kids need to hear from one coach -- not a parent trying to live vicariously through them.  Just go enjoy watching your kids play the game.


Sounds like he does!


----------



## Larzby (Aug 14, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Once you start getting to the higher levels + ages of youth soccer all the parents pretty much know each other in one way or other. This is when you start seeing parents from different teams hanging out on the sidelines.
> 
> When you've been going to the same tournaments with the sameish people for 10+ years usually the topic discussed is how annoying youth soccer can be. But, you keep doing it because its something your kid loves.
> 
> Generally the ones that want to fight are at the younger and lower levels. This is because soccer when the games are close can they be 60+ minutes of tension. Americans parents used to this type of action + can get frustrated and lash out. Over time soccer will grind even the craziest parents desire to fight out of them. Sometimes it just takes a while for this to occur.


Absolutely, AYSO has proven that the lower the level of soccer equals worse parent behavior. Just check it out almost any weekend and you will get a huge laugh!


----------



## COSMOS (Aug 14, 2022)

Parents that crowd under your tent setup, but then vanish when it's time take them shits down and haul it to the parking lot.


----------



## mlx (Aug 15, 2022)

Parents registering their kids to teams, but not showing up at tournaments. And not even paying their share.


----------



## Surf Zombie (Aug 15, 2022)

My wife when she is at the game and I’m home. She spends the whole game chatting with everyone and has no idea who is winning, who is losing  or what is going on.

Example:

Me (around halftime)  How’s the game going?
Her: (15 minutes later). Good

Me: Any score?
Her: I think we scored.

Me: The other team score?
Her: Not sure. 

Me: How is (insert kid 1, 2 or 3 name) playing?
Her: Good.

Me: (At end of game) What was the final score?
Her: I think we tied.

Me texting my kid- What was the score?
My kid: We won 3-0.

Now, if I’m not at the game, the dads just text each other and keep the wives out of the conversation.


----------



## Mystery Train (Aug 15, 2022)

Surf Zombie said:


> My wife when she is at the game and I’m home. She spends the whole game chatting with everyone and has no idea who is winning, who is losing  or what is going on.
> 
> Example:
> 
> ...



Ohmygod, I feel this one in my SOUL.


----------



## focomoso (Aug 18, 2022)

SuperSoccerFan619 said:


> What drive’s me crazy about club soccer are the crazy parents who like to point fingers at other kids weaknesses and suggesting ideas on how and where they should go to improve. Ok, coach.


This! I hate it when I hear parents talking trash about kids. It makes them seem petty and small.


----------



## zebrafish (Aug 18, 2022)

Other parents who feel the need to coach *my* kid from the sideline. STFU!
Worst thing is that they're telling things that are just wrong.
That one blows my mind.


----------



## outside! (Aug 20, 2022)

zebrafish said:


> Other parents who feel the need to coach *my* kid from the sideline. STFU!
> Worst thing is that they're telling things that are just wrong.
> That one blows my mind.


Had a dad like this on DD's first club team. Another player got in trouble for telling him to shut up. I told my player she had permission to tell him to shut up.


----------



## pewpew (Aug 21, 2022)

My G03 was a full-time GK. One coach we played with got her to start guesting with a few teams that he was friends with the coaches and they needed help due to either an injured GK or their regular GK was unavailable. Turned into quite a side gig when word got out and she helped quite a few teams out if her team wasn't playing. 

When you are either new to the team..or there to guest..and a parent finds out you are the GK parent and they tell you.......
"My kid plays GK too"
I honestly feel like saying.."Bitch please..if your kid was a GK we wouldn't be here"


----------



## Chalklines (Aug 21, 2022)

zebrafish said:


> Other parents who feel the need to coach *my* kid from the sideline. STFU!
> Worst thing is that they're telling things that are just wrong.
> That one blows my mind.


Unless your kid that one who doesn't pass the ball because they listen to you and not the coach


----------



## Footy30 (Aug 21, 2022)

Parents who know *NOTHING* about the GK position... chiming in on what the gk should've done or deciding on how good or bad a gk is.
Honestly it's one of the most frustrating things to hear. Parents have no idea how mentally taxing being a gk is. so please for the love of god...SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.... worry about your own kid.


----------



## MamaBear5 (Aug 22, 2022)

Footy30 said:


> Parents who know *NOTHING* about the GK position... chiming in on what the gk should've done or deciding on how good or bad a gk is.
> Honestly it's one of the most frustrating things to hear. Parents have no idea how mentally taxing being a gk is. so please for the love of god...SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.... worry about your own kid.


Keepers parent best tool is a pair of noise canceling headphones. It is seriously the only way I can watch my kiddo play. This way I can't hear the rude comments.


----------



## Jar!23 (Aug 22, 2022)

Players (really their parents since I have a U14) who say they will be going to a game and then change their minds the morning of the game or don't show up.  This irks me probably more than most people because I used to be a TM and hated not knowing whether the coach could accurately rely on the number of players showing up or not.  This past weekend we had a game being played during 90 degree weather and two players just didn't show up to the game when they said they would.  It seems most people don't think its a big deal but then the same people will complain if the coach calls in more players and their kid doesn't start or play the whole game.  Also annoying - parents whose thought process is "if my kid doesn't start or play the whole game, then its not worth it to show up."


----------



## OrangeCountyDad (Aug 22, 2022)

When your kid changes clubs and your old coach bad-mouths the new coach to the local soccer parents so bad that your new team can't find players and is forced to fold after playing 1-sub/no-subs all season.


----------



## Soccermom18 (Aug 22, 2022)

Jar!23 said:


> Also annoying - parents whose thought process is "if my kid doesn't start or play the whole game, then its not worth it to show up."


I’ve seen parents start/stop the timer so they know exactly how many minutes their players have played for so they can confront the coach after.


----------



## dad4 (Aug 22, 2022)

Soccermom18 said:


> I’ve seen parents start/stop the timer so they know exactly how many minutes their players have played for so they can confront the coach after.


That entirely depends on what the coach initially said about his playing time policy.

If the coach said he plays everybody, but then some kids are only in for five minutes, parents have every right to point out the discrepancy.  

If the coach said he plays the top players because he plays to win, then there is nothing to complain about.  He’s doing exactly what he promised.


----------



## paytoplay (Aug 22, 2022)

Kiss ass parents that suck up to the coach or the doc. Bunch o brown nosers!


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 22, 2022)

Soccermom18 said:


> I’ve seen parents start/stop the timer so they know exactly how many minutes their players have played for so they can confront the coach after.


This isn't bad actually because time flies when your kid is in and lags when the kid is on the bench.  It may dispel what their emotions are telling them.


----------



## michelleP (Aug 23, 2022)

Arrogant parent rivalries from different teams.


----------



## Chalklines (Aug 23, 2022)

paytoplay said:


> Kiss ass parents that suck up to the coach or the doc. Bunch o brown nosers!


its pay to play. some just pay more for minutes


----------



## crush (Aug 23, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> its pay to play. some just pay more for minutes


Pay, play, pay & stay and pay a little "extra" for guarantee of starts/minutes and first choice of preferred position as well. The good coaches my dd had and like her Grandpa when he coached the likes of Jim Edmonds in the late 70s, they would let all the parents who thought they could buy minutes that is over at AYSO and please leave. Straight up old school bro. You paid and volunteered your $$$ and time in order to get play time guaranteed at A-SO. The gr8t coaches of the old days would tell the parents at the get go that "they coach to win and play the players where they see fit and not what dad or mom say. If you don;t like that, then you need to leave now!!!"


----------



## crush (Aug 23, 2022)

paytoplay said:


> Kiss ass parents that suck up to the coach or the doc. Bunch o brown nosers!


----------



## crush (Aug 23, 2022)

paytoplay said:


> Kiss ass parents that suck up to the coach or the doc. Bunch o brown nosers!


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 23, 2022)

The only difference between kissing ass and brown nosing is depth perception.


----------



## crush (Aug 23, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> The only difference between kissing ass and brown nosing is depth perception.


----------



## crush (Aug 23, 2022)

More from the Brown Nosers


----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 23, 2022)

crush said:


> More from the Brown Nosers
> 
> View attachment 14655


You have proven over the course of many years that you are confusing basic civility with "brown nosing".  Seriously, in your meme you are denigrating people doing nothing more than saying something nice and being polite.


----------



## Soccer Dad & Ref (Aug 23, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> You have proven over the course of many years that you are confusing basic civility with "brown nosing".  Seriously, in your meme you are denigrating people doing nothing more than saying something nice and being polite.


You're denigrating Boomer’s desire to copy and paste memes.


----------



## NorCalDad (Aug 23, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> You have proven over the course of many years that you are confusing basic civility with "brown nosing".  Seriously, in your meme you are denigrating people doing nothing more than saying something nice and being polite.


I find that people who call out brown nosers or ass kissers are generally incredible awkward people in social situations.  Not all the time, but I'd make money in Vegas if I could bet on it.  Obviously there are people that go too far for sure....but having a conversation with coach doesn't really mean anything other than someone having a conversation with a coach.


----------



## DropBall (Aug 23, 2022)

After reading the last page, I am curious about "pay to play".  I have always just paid club fees and let coach determine position and play time.  My boys get plenty of minutes, so for me, all is well.

But, what do these pay to play parents do? Slip coach a $20 before each game? Buy coach an expensive bottle of scotch?  I don't want to hear about the single moms... Anyone care to share some anecdotes?


----------



## OrangeCountyDad (Aug 23, 2022)

DropBall said:


> But, what do these pay to play parents do? Slip coach a $20 before each game? Buy coach an expensive bottle of scotch?  I don't want to hear about the single moms... Anyone care to share some anecdotes?


We had a coach who ran 'extra training' sessions on non-practice days, for a fee of course.  It wasn't required, but the coach told the kids more than once "I don't like it when you don't come to extra training."  and it was pretty clear insinuation if you didn't come to extra training, you didn't play/play as much.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 23, 2022)

DropBall said:


> After reading the last page, I am curious about "pay to play".  I have always just paid club fees and let coach determine position and play time.  My boys get plenty of minutes, so for me, all is well.
> 
> But, what do these pay to play parents do? Slip coach a $20 before each game? Buy coach an expensive bottle of scotch?  I don't want to hear about the single moms... Anyone care to share some anecdotes?


You've described the most common ways parents get to coaches. Another popular way is to do private instruction aka "privates" with the coach.

Private's usually cost $50-$100 per hour + parents that want to influence the coach do 2-3 hours a week.


----------



## NorCalDad (Aug 23, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> You've described the most common ways parents get to coaches. Another popular way is to do private instruction aka "privates" with the coach.
> 
> Private's usually cost $50-$100 per hour + parents that want to influence the coach do 2-3 hours a week.


You can tell when a coach has good ethics when they refuse to do privates for players on their club team.  The optics alone are horrible.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 23, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> You can tell when a coach has good ethics when they refuse to do privates for players on their club team.  The optics alone are horrible.


You'd think but often privates become recruitment tools for players outside of the club. Why introduce a new player to your team at club practice when you can do it at privates?

Also, coaches can use privates to pick winners and losers meaning maybe only the top players (whos parents cough up $$$) are invited. This is how you keep the best players + signal to everyone else get better or your off the team without even saying anything + the coach makes cash on the side.

The whole cycle works as long as the coach is winning.


----------



## NorCalDad (Aug 23, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> You'd think but often privates become recruitment tools for players outside of the club. Why introduce a new player to your team at club practice when you can do it at privates?
> 
> Also, coaches can use privates to pick winners and losers meaning maybe only the top players (whos parents cough up $$$) are invited. This is how you keep the best players + signal to everyone else get better or your off the team without even saying anything + the coach makes cash on the side.
> 
> The whole cycle works as long as the coach is winning.


There's all kinds of messiness in the side training business for sure.  Another gem is when you have a single coach side training 20 kids and charging $50+/head.  We've had to filter through a lot of side trainers to get to the good ones.  They exist.


----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 23, 2022)

DropBall said:


> After reading the last page, I am curious about "pay to play".  I have always just paid club fees and let coach determine position and play time.  My boys get plenty of minutes, so for me, all is well.
> 
> But, what do these pay to play parents do? Slip coach a $20 before each game? Buy coach an expensive bottle of scotch?  I don't want to hear about the single moms... Anyone care to share some anecdotes?


No, when they refer to "pay for play", they are lamenting that they must pay anything for their daughter to play soccer.  They don't want to pay club dues, they don't want to pay for the coach, they don't want to pay for the field costs, or for travel to play other comparable teams.  They want all of those things, and they want the best of them, but they just don't want to pay what they cost. Of course, not a single one of them can articulate how it could work, other than spewing nonsense about how Kevin DeBruyne is a really good soccer player, so therefore youth soccer clubs in the U.S. should "do what they do in Belgium" and similarly spend millions upon millions on 12 year old girls, although there is a zero percent chance of recouping those costs.  They seem to live in a fantasyland in which they believe that their 12 year old princess's soccer skills have tremendous financial value if only other people would just "invest" in her so they don't have to.

If their kid were into piano, they'd lament the lessons and the piano weren't free, or the training and the thoroughbred if they were into equestrian. They're the same people who constantly complain how free public education is terrible but can't seem to connect the incredibly obvious dots that you get what you pay for, and they'd have an even worse problem if their kiddie soccer were free because at least taxpayers pay for public education. And to your point about giving coaches scotch or other bribes, they're almost always the ones spouting ridiculous conspiracy theories to rationalize why their kid is on the bench, because they aren't ready to admit that it's happening because the better players are on the field.


----------



## espola (Aug 23, 2022)

DropBall said:


> After reading the last page, I am curious about "pay to play".  I have always just paid club fees and let coach determine position and play time.  My boys get plenty of minutes, so for me, all is well.
> 
> But, what do these pay to play parents do? Slip coach a $20 before each game? Buy coach an expensive bottle of scotch?  I don't want to hear about the single moms... Anyone care to share some anecdotes?


I have some stories about single moms (and some not-yet single moms) but I am not going to share them here.


----------



## paytoplay (Aug 23, 2022)

DropBall said:


> After reading the last page, I am curious about "pay to play".  I have always just paid club fees and let coach determine position and play time.  My boys get plenty of minutes, so for me, all is well.
> 
> But, what do these pay to play parents do? Slip coach a $20 before each game? Buy coach an expensive bottle of scotch?  I don't want to hear about the single moms... Anyone care to share some anecdotes?


Docs and the docs-in-training (coaches) are salesmen, always on the lookout for a trade or exchange. They can be pretty creative with the quid pro quo. They’re like Radar on MASH getting the stuff off the black market. Or was it Klinger?


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 23, 2022)

paytoplay said:


> Docs and the docs-in-training (coaches) are salesmen, always on the lookout for a trade or exchange. They can be pretty creative with the quid pro quo. They’re like Radar on MASH getting the stuff off the black market. Or was it Klinger?


At the ECNL level, I have seen players make the squad or parents have more pull when they have multiple kids with the club.


----------



## jojon (Aug 23, 2022)

Woodwork said:


> At the ECNL level, I have seen players make the squad or parents have more pull when they have multiple kids with the club.


Hearing all these arguments, I think the the youth soccer club scene is in chaos because clubs try to listen to their customers (parents). I thought coaches are under pressure to win at all costs thus we have stories about kickball, bringing in ineligible guest players, teach players to cheat, poaching players, etc. At the same time, the coaches are accused for taking "bribes" for extra playing time, this contradicts "winning at all costs" because fielding the rich kids that are not qualified will make the team weaker.


----------



## Woodwork (Aug 23, 2022)

jojon said:


> Hearing all these arguments, I think the the youth soccer club scene is in chaos because clubs try to listen to their customers (parents). I thought coaches are under pressure to win at all costs thus we have stories about kickball, bringing in ineligible guest players, teach players to cheat, poaching players, etc. At the same time, the coaches are accused for taking "bribes" for extra playing time, this contradicts "winning at all costs" because fielding the rich kids that are not qualified will make the team weaker.


The pressure first is always for the club's bottom line, which isn't profits so much as survival.  However, ECNL is a strange animal because you can put 10 on the bench to fund the team and scholarship half the starters. That being said, what I saw from the inside was extremely unsettling.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 23, 2022)

jojon said:


> Hearing all these arguments, I think the the youth soccer club scene is in chaos because clubs try to listen to their customers (parents). I thought coaches are under pressure to win at all costs thus we have stories about kickball, bringing in ineligible guest players, teach players to cheat, poaching players, etc. At the same time, the coaches are accused for taking "bribes" for extra playing time, this contradicts "winning at all costs" because fielding the rich kids that are not qualified will make the team weaker.


Nope, that's not how it works. 

If you have a top level winning team parents will find you + many will literally throw cash at coaches for positions, playing time. etc on that team. There's more players looking for a super team to play on than super teams.

It's not just the lower level players offering $$$. Often top level coaches setup an unofficial expectation that all players good or poor need to be floating $$$.

Believe it or not but parents of top talent are just as worried about their kid not being on XYZ super team as the ones that aren't very good.

This is why some coaches have a win at all costs mentality. Wins directly affect their "under the table" pocketbook.


----------



## socalkdg (Aug 23, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> Obviously there are people that go too far for sure....but having a conversation with coach doesn't really mean anything other than someone having a conversation with a coach.


Been talking to my daughters coaches for the past 7 years.  After the game on the way to the car (somehow my daughter is always the last one to leave), maybe before a practice.   Only keeper on the team during that time.  3 head coaches.  Same assistant.   Helped fund raise for others on the team, always ahead on payments, our family helped with transportation.  Chatting soccer, college, etc.   Only thing I ever told the coaches (yes told, not asked), at age 11 (she is now 16) was that I wanted her to take all her goal kicks.    Yes she made some mistakes, but her leg and accuracy improved because of this.   Didn't always agree with some of the things they said to her, but if she had an issue she could say something.


----------



## Chalklines (Aug 24, 2022)

Face it. 

These are the same parents bribing coaches who are sending their kids to private schools who pay for grades with "teachers gifts" and hire out for when SAT's come around. We have created a nasty system that has trickled down into youth sports. $$$$$$ now means opertunity.


----------



## toucan (Aug 24, 2022)

I have coached soccer for over 30 years with a fair number of high-level teams included.  Many of the families I have coached are wealthy.  All parents want their kids to play.  I have never - not even once - been offered money or any other form of inducement to give a player more playing time.  Many parents have phoned me to talk about how much time their daughters receive, or what they can do better to earn more time.  But no parent has ever offered a bribe for any reason.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 24, 2022)

toucan said:


> I have coached soccer for over 30 years with a fair number of high-level teams included.  Many of the families I have coached are wealthy.  All parents want their kids to play.  I have never - not even once - been offered money or any other form of inducement to give a player more playing time.  Many parents have phoned me to talk about how much time their daughters receive, or what they can do better to earn more time.  But no parent has ever offered a bribe for any reason.


I know of 3 top level youth coaches that don't have your ethics. Operation Varsity Blues just happened at the college level + was directly about bribes and using $$$ to get ahead.

It is what it is. For me we just avoid those kinds of situations. Over time ethics matter.


----------



## Venantsyo (Aug 24, 2022)

Club soccer stuff that drives you nuts…

 “exposure”.


----------



## crush (Aug 24, 2022)

toucan said:


> I have coached soccer for over 30 years with a fair number of high-level teams included.  Many of the families I have coached are wealthy.  All parents want their kids to play.  I have never - not even once - been offered money or any other form of inducement to give a player more playing time.  Many parents have phoned me to talk about how much time their daughters receive, or what they can do better to earn more time.  But no parent has ever offered a bribe for any reason.


Great job coach. My wife tried to give a pumpkin pie to one of my dd old Docs and he would not take it. We took up a xmas collection and he would not take it. He wanted nothing that would look bad. I know another Doc that did privates and was 100% Middle Man Max and you best better do his privates to win his approval and recommendations to all the coaches.


----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 24, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I know of 3 top level youth coaches that don't have your ethics. Operation Varsity Blues just happened at the college level + was directly about bribes and using $$$ to get ahead.
> 
> It is what it is. For me we just avoid those kinds of situations. Over time ethics matter.


Yes, a non-soccer parent paying $450,000 to someone to get their kid into Yale is definitely proof that rich soccer parents routinely bribe youth soccer coaches and high school teachers.  Instead of self-pitying conspiracy theories, maybe consider taking responsibility for the actual reasons your kid is not doing as well as you hoped.  It has nothing to do with "rich people", even if that is your go-to excuse for all of your problems.  Rich people sometimes bribe people. Poor people also sometimes hold up liquor stores.  None of these things in any way show any sort of propensity among rich or poor people to behave improperly.


----------



## watfly (Aug 24, 2022)

espola said:


> I have some stories about single moms (and some not-yet single moms) but I am not going to share them here.


Those stories have already been written.






						Amazon.com: Desperate Soccer Moms (and Dads): Lies, success, deceit, euphoria, sex, fame, failure. All within the explosion of youth soccer in America.: 9780984135301: Illingworth, Jeff: Books
					

Amazon.com: Desperate Soccer Moms (and Dads): Lies, success, deceit, euphoria, sex, fame, failure. All within the explosion of youth soccer in America.: 9780984135301: Illingworth, Jeff: Books



					www.amazon.com


----------



## Orangeteam (Aug 24, 2022)

DOCs/Coaches that keep problem kids or families, or dont address the issues enough becuase they are afraid to lose player.   
I find that usually when you remove the problem the resulting collapse never happens.   In fact, I've seen some teams shine brighter without the player


----------



## Soccer Cat (Aug 28, 2022)

Tournaments schedules being posted only days before it starts…

Speaking of that..anyone know when Blues Cup schedule will be up?!


----------



## Mello (Aug 29, 2022)

paytoplay said:


> Kiss ass parents that suck up to the coach or the doc. Bunch o brown nosers!


This happens so much of the time that it's disturbing. What's worse is the coach/DOC/Director sucks up that "brown" stuff. Don't they realize how bad it looks?


----------



## Soccer Dad & Ref (Aug 29, 2022)

Soccer Cat said:


> Tournaments schedules being posted only days before it starts…
> 
> Speaking of that..anyone know when Blues Cup schedule will be up?!


They just released the schedule.


----------



## zebrafish (Aug 29, 2022)

Soccer Dad & Ref said:


> They just released the schedule.


And then took it down. Add that to the list.....


----------



## Code (Aug 30, 2022)

Pretending DPL is a top tier league; placing DPL teams in the top brackets at competitive tournaments.  (exception for SD Force; they should drop DPL, the league is holding them back)


----------



## SDMama (Aug 30, 2022)

Code said:


> Pretending DPL is a top tier league; placing DPL teams in the top brackets at competitive tournaments.  (exception for SD Force; they should drop DPL, the league is holding them back)


SD Force has nowhere to go. SDSC won’t let them into GAL (Force beats them in pretty much every olders age group), and ECNL won’t put a 3rd club in the same 5-mile radius. (They also beat Sharks across the board before the latest push to finally be competitive with MW and shedding all the old Sharks coaches and players.)


----------



## Code (Aug 30, 2022)

SDMama said:


> SD Force has nowhere to go. SDSC won’t let them into GAL (Force beats them in pretty much every olders age group), and ECNL won’t put a 3rd club in the same 5-mile radius. (They also beat Sharks across the board before the latest push to finally be competitive with MW and shedding all the old Sharks coaches and players.)


They should do like Tudela FC and play their teams up a year in NPL, while pushing to gain access to GA events.  They have Tier 1 teams, but are stuck in a Tier 3 league year after year.  ECNL should expand another club into the San Diego region.  There is plenty of Tier 1 talent in San Diego to fill out another competitive roster.


----------



## VanMan (Aug 30, 2022)

SDMama said:


> SD Force has nowhere to go. SDSC won’t let them into GAL (Force beats them in pretty much every olders age group), and ECNL won’t put a 3rd club in the same 5-mile radius. (They also beat Sharks across the board before the latest push to finally be competitive with MW and shedding all the old Sharks coaches and players.)


I have a hard time believing that SDSC has enough reach with GA to keep Force out.  

Your comment about not having another ECNL club so close certainly makes intuitive sense,  but considering that SDSC is an ECNL member on the boys' side I'm not so sure ECNL is all that concerned about the geography.

I believe last season was SDF's first in DPL.  Maybe they wanted to get settled in before moving their top teams up to GA.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 1, 2022)

Hey who was it around here that recommended the book "Desperate Soccer Moms" by Coach Illingworth? Really great suggestion so thanks.  Just finished.  The criticism around the "Desperate Soccer Moms" and "Desperate Soccer Dads" is right on.  It's a great read.

The funny thing, is, though, that while he recognizes he made some mistakes as a coach, he's kind of oblivious that many of the things he preached in his career are exactly at the heart of what's wrong with coaching in this US including: a) a win at all cost mentality going so far as to recruit starters from Bakersfield to play in San Diego that NEVER practice with the team, b) a focus on recruiting instead of developing the players he had, c) conflicts of interest with parents, and while he doesn't engage in them, relationships by his peers which are wholly inappropriate, d) bullying and abuse of players, e) bullying and abuse of referees (including a minor) e) the development of the old physical and direct soccer US style, and f) while I get play time should be merit based, particularly at the highest and older levels, 0 play time for an 8 year old is wholly in appropriate.  The end result is a book that admits he made mistakes because he failed to play politics, and emphasized winning too much, not because of what he did was counterproductive to US soccer and the kids themselves.

At the same time, he deserves a whole lot of credit for building a system in the 80s and 90s when there wasn't a lot around.  You get to see in the book why the pay or play system arose and what needs it answered.  Part of the problem was that it was also built by English coaches, which at the time England was undergoing its own growing pains (and it's not like the cream of the crop came here).  I can't help but think what a different system we would have had those early innovators been Continental European or Mexican, both for the good and bad.


----------



## soccerchaffeur (Sep 1, 2022)

Parents pimping their kids out to guest play on Facebook message boards.


----------

