# MLS youth league



## Zvezdas

Major League Soccer launches new elite competition for youth academies | MLSSoccer.com
					

MLS launches new elite competition for youth academies




					www.mlssoccer.com
				




Maybe those former DA clubs prematurely jumped the ship? MLS announced that their new youth league will feature non-mls clubs too!


----------



## jpeter

Zvezdas said:


> Major League Soccer launches new elite competition for youth academies | MLSSoccer.com
> 
> 
> MLS launches new elite competition for youth academies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mlssoccer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe those former DA clubs prematurely jumped the ship? MLS announced that their new youth league will feature non-mls clubs too!


Yeah finally, should have been done years ago.

The DA restrictions and sub rules won't be used either from what we were  told last night by one of the MLS academy directors.

ECNL might be the most expensive pay to play league around after the this.  Without the da subsidies (20-30k per team is what I heard mutiple times) or traveler scholarships clubs are going to have to come up with another ~20-30k per  team, and what about those mandatory showcases that are out of state?

What's interesting is how this might effect USL?   MLS has there 2  teams in that league and recently signed players in Feb & Match from the DA.  This has been promoted as the path way to the first team, will that change now?


----------



## DosEquisGuy

Nomads in San Diego has announced that they are a part of the MLS league


----------



## 46n2

Nobody knows anything but then they know everything , all speculation as of know . MLS league and ENCL , why have the two different leagues again , if you play in the MLS league , who pays for travel ? Who and why would non mls teams be part of a MLS league? Make no sense ,  There’s only a few professional teams in our backyard , should be interesting to hear from all of the experts on this forum


----------



## jpeter

46n2 said:


> Nobody knows anything but then they know everything , all speculation as of know . MLS league and ENCL , why have the two different leagues again , if you play in the MLS league , who pays for travel ? Who and why would non mls teams be part of a MLS league? Make no sense ,  There’s only a few professional teams in our backyard , should be interesting to hear from all of the experts on this forum


Socal MLS academies are funded they cover travel at least they have up until now.  Need teams to play, there are only 2MLS around so yeah sure 100% there will be other teams that are non MLS  including MX.

U17 and above is what has been talked about so far, still need those other leagues


----------



## jpeter

DosEquisGuy said:


> Nomads in San Diego has announced that they are a part of the MLS league


City Carlsbad or whatever there name is now is a possibility also I would guess. Who else from SD country?


----------



## 46n2

Exactly just like how DA originally started they worked with 16 and up ( I think) about 10 - 12 years ago and no girls , they don’t care about 12-14yrs . Speaking from first hand knowledge too , too early to tell or get excited or bummed , sure makes for interesting times


----------



## 46n2

San Diego division of DA was a joke , they can have all them teams


----------



## jpeter

46n2 said:


> Exactly just like how DA originally started they worked with 16 and up ( I think) about 10 - 12 years ago and no girls , they don’t care about 12-14yrs . Speaking from first hand knowledge too , too early to tell or get excited or bummed , sure makes for interesting times


I dunno but my player is excited about the possibilities however it shakes out.   At least he was on the initial pitch.  See how it goes need to get over these c19 restrictions first.


----------



## Zvezdas

Heard rumors that TFA and LAUFA joined MLS league, can anyone confirm that?


----------



## jpeter

Zvezdas said:


> Heard rumors that TFA and LAUFA joined MLS league, can anyone confirm that?


That would be interesting but since they have been previously focused on youngers have to wonder about what age groups now?

2500 'elite' players and 250 top coaches can't be all olders can they?  come to think about it thats about what 125 teams.    If all MLS  clubs put two teams in U17-19 that about 60 teams so going to be interesting what age groups will be included intially.


----------



## justneededaname

jpeter said:


> City Carlsbad or whatever there name is now is a possibility also I would guess. Who else from SD country?


Albion says they are in.


----------



## 46n2

Best of luck to everyone and yes MLS pays for the players to travel-players only , personally tell me any of the local MLS clubs that remotely care for what the parents think .... I know as much as you guys or gals do.  Personally I’d love to have Kante slice and dice and do his magic on what a MLS league would look like . California teams travel itineraries, do they stay just west coast , divide it into territories , and once again what’s and why is it a MLS league if TFA and Nomads , because they have good teams , sure , but again Who knows , personally I’m just cranky because there’s no sports to watch sorry for bad attitude


----------



## watfly

DosEquisGuy said:


> Nomads in San Diego has announced that they are a part of the MLS league


Huh.  They've implied it but have you seen an official announcement?


----------



## jpeter

Wow this looks like the real deal:
US Youth Soccer Leads Development of New Elite Soccer Platform http://bit.ly/3cmSwAJ

Time for a new forum Dom?

April 15, 2020
To: All US Soccer Federation Members, Clubs and Staff
From: Dr. Pete Zopfi – USYS Chair
Skip Gilbert – USYS CEO

Re: US Youth Soccer Leads Development of New Elite Soccer Platform
Given today’s U.S. Soccer Federation (USSF) and Major League Soccer (MLS) announcements, US Youth Socceraffirms that it has been actively working with leadership, member clubs and outside partnerr organizationso enhance our existing programming to meet the needs of our partners. Through our elite
youth soccer competitions and Olympic Development Program, we have elevated the playing environmentf forclub teams and players. We are more confident than ever that we have the leadership, vision, staff and soccereco-system to collaborate with all US Soccer members as well as any future MLS competitivep platform

For those USSF DA Clubs who are now disenfranchised, we are excited to invite you to join the conversation Please contact us to learn more about how you can play a role in developing a new unified and comprehensive structure that develops world-class players through an elite competitive pathway.
For any USSF staff impacted by today’s announcements, we invite you to talk with us to learn more about
US Youth Soccer and our organization. Many of you may know us from the past, but we encourage you to
get to know us for the future.
US Youth Soccer has the leadership, organization, financial strength and flexibility to collaborate, design
and execute national programming that will set the standard for elite youth play and allow young athletes
to reach their full potential. Because of our extensive relationships with leading thinkers and partners we
have actively developed plans to integrate with others to meet the needs of developing players through
high quality coaching, professionalized environments, enhanced player identification, and competitions
created specifically to address the development of players with professional aspirations.
“US Youth Soccer is the largest youth organization in the world and keeping the best players in the same
environment keeps our National team healthy”, said Dr. Robert Contiguglia, former President of the US
Soccer Federation (1998-2006) and past President of US Youth Soccer.
We are excited to engage with the entire US soccer community given the extensive changes in the
American youth soccer landscape. We hope you join us and help drive forward the game we all love. We
are a family committed to helping every player reach their full potential. We Are Youth Soccer!


----------



## DosEquisGuy

watfly said:


> Huh. They've implied it but have you seen an official announcement?


----------



## MWN

I just wrote a lengthy post addressing some of these questions in the USMNT / USWNT / World Cup section.



Zvezdas said:


> Major League Soccer launches new elite competition for youth academies | MLSSoccer.com
> 
> 
> MLS launches new elite competition for youth academies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mlssoccer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe those former DA clubs prematurely jumped the ship? MLS announced that their new youth league will feature non-mls clubs too!


No, there were going to be relegated to the DA 2 division anyway and were not going to get an invite to the MLS.



jpeter said:


> Yeah finally, should have been done years ago.


Yes and no, until the MLS made an about-face on RSTP the financial incentive was absent.


----------



## watfly

Could be propaganda but MLS appears committed to including non-MLS DA clubs.  Time will tell.









						MLS youth league reaches out to DA colleagues: “It's not time to exclude, it’s time to include” | MLSSoccer.com
					

What could the new MLS youth league entail? Fred Lipka explains




					www.mlssoccer.com


----------



## jpeter

watfly said:


> Could be propaganda but MLS appears committed to including non-MLS DA clubs.  Time will tell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MLS youth league reaches out to DA colleagues: “It's not time to exclude, it’s time to include” | MLSSoccer.com
> 
> 
> What could the new MLS youth league entail? Fred Lipka explains
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mlssoccer.com


Yeah now if clubs want to participate that's another story, once bitten twice shy type of deal.    They really need to take care of some past grievances & problems regarding DA if they want this to work better.

Hopefully this new league gets some cross play from others that just won't join due to various reasons.   

If USYS are the ones running the league like ussf did: making the rules, overseeing, etc  may have a better chance vs MLS doing that for any of the non-mls ones considering.

Much too early to tell but hope and wish everyone the best.


----------



## SDadAZ

jpeter said:


> Yeah now if clubs want to participate that's another story, once bitten twice shy type of deal.    They really need to take care of some past grievances & problems regarding DA if they want this to work better.
> 
> Hopefully this new league gets some cross play from others that just won't join due to various reasons.
> 
> If USYS are the ones running the league like ussf did: making the rules, overseeing, etc  may have a better chance vs MLS doing that for any of the non-mls ones considering.
> 
> Much too early to tell but hope and wish everyone the best.


MLS clubs are certainly committed to non-MLS clubs but the non-MLS clubs' entrance into the MLS Youth League will most certainly be invitation-only and just enough clubs needed to effectively run this league on a regional basis and still have competitive parity.  Both the LA and San Diego divisions of DA League had far too many clubs.  Half of the clubs or maybe even a little less is my guess.  Would be interesting to see the analysis on which non-MLS clubs stayed in competitive reach of the top clubs in the DA league.


----------



## lafalafa

SDadAZ said:


> MLS clubs are certainly committed to non-MLS clubs but the non-MLS clubs' entrance into the MLS Youth League will most certainly be invitation-only and just enough clubs needed to effectively run this league on a regional basis and still have competitive parity.  Both the LA and San Diego divisions of DA League had far too many clubs.  Half of the clubs or maybe even a little less is my guess.  Would be interesting to see the analysis on which non-MLS clubs stayed in competitive reach of the top clubs in the DA league.


Both the articles posting and the one on the MLS site say they're welcoming ALL former ussda clubs.

Besides those could see a invite or application requirement like most leagues.  Going to cost and MLS hasn't been doing anything but cutting those so will be interested to see what they come up,  the financing to start something up new given the current situation


----------



## 3leches

Galaxy will no longer have younger team and only a selected few of 06’s will stay on. So it looks like the older teams will be in the mls league.


----------



## TroisPommes

3leches said:


> Galaxy will no longer have younger team and only a selected few of 06’s will stay on. So it looks like the older teams will be in the mls league.


I heard they will keep all the age groups and the younger ones play more local. Is this not the case?


----------



## LukeIAmYourFather

Hi. New account. Came to learn and help my B05. I read many threads but didnt find anything on the new, expanded MLS Youth League permitting HS or not. I know ECNL does and DA did not. Anyone have certainty on which it will be? Ty.


----------



## lafalafa

3leches said:


> Galaxy will no longer have younger team and only a selected few of 06’s will stay on. So it looks like the older teams will be in the mls league.


That's a curious development, the one MLS spokespersons in the article said they're looking at three age groups possibly for 20-21'

U15 (06), u17(04), and TBA

So either U15 is no longer under consideration and the MLS part will start at u16(05) or galaxy will be looking for new 06's.



TroisPommes said:


> I heard they will keep all the age groups and the younger ones play more local. Is this not the case?


Not for the MLS components, 3 age groups olders.

USYS may be offering youngers a new "elite" league but nothing but a reach out and please contact if your interested feeler so far.



LukeIAmYourFather said:


> Hi. New account. Came to learn and help my B05. I read many threads but didnt find anything on the new, expanded MLS Youth League permitting HS or not. I know ECNL does and DA did not. Anyone have certainty on which it will be? Ty.


Discuss with the clubs you're interested in, no league wide statement about ban of HS for public schools like DA had but some club doc/coaches have early told prospective players that high school play doesn't fit into their programs.

This is very preliminary information so might want to give it some time and see how it all shakes out.


----------



## messy

TroisPommes said:


> I heard they will keep all the age groups and the younger ones play more local. Is this not the case?


That would be my guess. I don't see them sending the 12s and 13s packing...


----------



## jpeter

messy said:


> That would be my guess. I don't see them sending the 12s and 13s packing...


$$$ and zero mention of anything <U15 so far regarding younger.

Might be a different league although NPLwest has become redundant now with  majority of those in ECNL.


----------



## Kante

so this just surfaced...


----------



## messy

USL/MLS. Still no pro/rel?


----------



## jpeter

Kante said:


> so this just surfaced...
> 
> View attachment 6907


Where did that come from? USL championship or semi-pro teams?  

Obviously old...starts in March runs in the summer follows the MLS schedule.

Some of those don't sound like youth teams:  Cal United strikers, San Diego loyal, orange county those are USL or NISA teams.


----------



## Husky13

No Vancouver Whitecaps ….

I wonder if this is something different than the youth league that is planned.  Perhaps the new USL/MLS high school academy league that was rumored?  This obviously doesn't include any of the former DA clubs that we have heard are in the league.  I know multiple parents of players from non-MLS DA clubs that heard directly from their clubs that they are in the new league.  This (above) doesn't square with that at all.


----------



## jpeter

Husky13 said:


> No Vancouver Whitecaps ….
> 
> I wonder if this is something different than the youth league that is planned.  Perhaps the new USL/MLS high school academy league that was rumored?  This obviously doesn't include any of the former DA clubs that we have heard are in the league.  I know multiple parents of players from non-MLS DA clubs that heard directly from their clubs that they are in the new league.  This (above) doesn't square with that at all.


Nah this is most likely something different with adult teams, the one listed are USL or NISA affiliated teams or will be.  For next march 2021 if I'm reading the somewhat blurry image correctly?

The USL A eague has a different set of teams listed starting in Fall 2020.


----------



## lafalafa

jpeter said:


> Nah this is most likely something different with adult teams, the one listed are USL or NISA affiliated teams or will be.  For next march 2021 if I'm reading the somewhat blurry image correctly?
> 
> The USL A eague has a different set of teams listed starting in Fall 2020.


Some youngers dad reposter on Twitter making stuff up is my guess.  Start next year and call it pda yeah very doubtful


----------



## jpeter

Yeah enough of the #fakenews Twitter stuff

National league for former U.S. Soccer Development Academy (DA) clubs.








						US Youth Soccer announces new National League program structure
					

US Youth Soccer has announced a new structure for the National League.




					www.soccerwire.com
				




"As a part of this new club-based league structure, the USYS Conferences can now include a competition platform for all former U.S. Soccer Development Academy (DA) clubs. With input from club directors, USYS Conferences can now provide both regional and national connectivity for clubs looking for a development pathway for their top tier team(s). More information about this opportunity will be available in the coming weeks.


----------



## Kante

jpeter said:


> Yeah enough of the #fakenews Twitter stuff
> 
> National league for former U.S. Soccer Development Academy (DA) clubs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US Youth Soccer announces new National League program structure
> 
> 
> US Youth Soccer has announced a new structure for the National League.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soccerwire.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "As a part of this new club-based league structure, the USYS Conferences can now include a competition platform for all former U.S. Soccer Development Academy (DA) clubs. With input from club directors, USYS Conferences can now provide both regional and national connectivity for clubs looking for a development pathway for their top tier team(s). More information about this opportunity will be available in the coming weeks.


Jpeter, lots of multisyllabic words and/or don't have enough background to understand what this means. can you translate and/or boil down what the boots-on-the ground impact is of this?


----------



## jpeter

Kante said:


> Jpeter, lots of multisyllabic words and/or don't have enough background to understand what this means. can you translate and/or boil down what the boots-on-the ground impact is of this?


United States youth soccer association will sanction the new to be named MLS youth soccer league and create a new conference for them on regional and national levels.   

Just like they do for Cal South and this will include some sort of ALL NEW USYS National Showcases and playoffs and or national championship.


----------



## messy

jpeter said:


> United States youth soccer association will sanction the new to be named MLS youth soccer league and create a new conference for them on regional and national levels.
> 
> Just like they do for Cal South and this will include some sort of ALL NEW USYS National Showcases and playoffs and or national championship.


I guess now we know what TFA was waiting for and why he didn't jump on that ECNL announcement.


----------



## watfly

jpeter said:


> United States youth soccer association will sanction the new to be named MLS youth soccer league and create a new conference for them on regional and national levels.
> 
> Just like they do for Cal South and this will include some sort of ALL NEW USYS National Showcases and playoffs and or national championship.


You likely know more than I do, but I didn't get a strong impression from the letter that this was going to necessarily be the framework for the MLS league.  To me is sounded like USYS is offering an option to DA teams. "USYS Conferences can now include a competition platform for all former U.S. Soccer Development Academy (DA) clubs".  "Can" doesn't sound as affirmative as "is" or "will".


----------



## jpeter

watfly said:


> You likely know more than I do, but I didn't get a strong impression from the letter that this was going to necessarily be the framework for the MLS league.  To me is sounded like USYS is offering an option to DA teams. "USYS Conferences can now include a competition platform for all former U.S. Soccer Development Academy (DA) clubs".  "Can" doesn't sound as affirmative as "is" or "will".


Well of course it's up the MLS and non to participate in a new Academy conference or what ever it' will be called for that to become a reality.

Just like how Cal south runs there leagues or the CRL Pacific conference. 

Very early stages and this wasn't planned at all.  The collaboration with USYS will likely be just be part of overall platform at least that's what I've been told. 

International teams from MX, coaching educational programs, player IDs , and other tournaments are part of the approach they are taking into consideration.

Might be months before they work out the details and they don't seem to be in a rush so nobody really knows. Spending money and investing in something new is not a really priority for MLS right now.


----------



## Kante

Here's a great interview with US Soccer Scout Josh Hill about where things are at and what's next. 

TopDrawerSoccer is similar to SoccerAmerica in that it's a key pub that's really benefited youth soccer in this country, and that they likely will have some tough times ahead. Give the interview a read and subscribe.









						US Soccer Scout talks about DA | Club Soccer | Youth Soccer
					

The loss of the Development Academy is going to have ripple effects throughout the soccer landscape for years to come but one of the immediate consequences will be in scouting. TDS chats with a US Soccer Scout about the next steps.




					www.topdrawersoccer.com


----------



## vegasguy

Lights FC does not have the organization set up for a youth team.  At least, they have not announced it.   Brett Lashbrook said it was not in their model when he started the club.


----------



## Kante

Just heard from a solid source that at least some phone calls are going out this week to non-MLS/non-ECNL DA clubs about participating in "something new". Don't have a lot of details more than that. Does this jibe with what other folks are getting a whiff of?


----------



## Kante

First non-MLS club that's announced on 4/23 that it will be part of the MLS league in 2020-21... Any other announcements?


----------



## watfly

Kante said:


> First non-MLS club that's announced on 4/23 that it will be part of the MLS league in 2020-21... Any other announcements?
> View attachment 6954


Nomads made that claim last week.

I saw this article and was hoping it would have some good info re: who is playing in the MLS league.  Unfortunately it just listed the MLS clubs as playing in the MLS league, no non-MLS DA teams. https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/85490/sa-boys-club-directory-whos-headed-where-in-2020.html

The article does imply that the USYS National League is something separate from the MLS league.  There has been conjecture that MLS and USYS were joining forces, I'm skeptical that that is going to happen.


----------



## lafalafa

watfly said:


> Nomads made that claim last week.
> 
> I saw this article and was hoping it would have some good info re: who is playing in the MLS league.  Unfortunately it just listed the MLS clubs as playing in the MLS league, no non-MLS DA teams. https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/85490/sa-boys-club-directory-whos-headed-where-in-2020.html
> 
> The article does imply that the USYS National League is something separate from the MLS league.  There has been conjecture that MLS and USYS were joining forces, I'm skeptical that that is going to happen.


National League consists of various conferences,. USYS has offered regional and national conferences to them.   At certain tournaments & Showcases National league conference  play each other.

What MLS makes of this is to be determined but they are interested at least.


----------



## mid10

*Mapping out a new MLS development league*








						Mapping out a new MLS development league | Club Soccer | Youth Soccer
					

A new MLS youth development league is coming. But what will it look like? TDS speculates on some options.




					www.topdrawersoccer.com


----------



## jpeter

mid10 said:


> *Mapping out a new MLS development league*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mapping out a new MLS development league | Club Soccer | Youth Soccer
> 
> 
> A new MLS youth development league is coming. But what will it look like? TDS speculates on some options.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.topdrawersoccer.com


Is there a none of the above option for that completely speculative outline?

USL academy collaboration does make sense but that already exists so why would MLS announce a new league? MWM already let us know that MLS was offering something different vs that. 

Local Non MlS clubs have confirmed they have been asked to join this new league none of which is Incorporated in those outlines.

USYS has come out with at least 2 releases indicating they are offering some type of programming for this new league.

I don't really get this article but maybe someone else can shed some light.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kante said:


> Here's a great interview with US Soccer Scout Josh Hill about where things are at and what's next.
> 
> TopDrawerSoccer is similar to SoccerAmerica in that it's a key pub that's really benefited youth soccer in this country, and that they likely will have some tough times ahead. Give the interview a read and subscribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> US Soccer Scout talks about DA | Club Soccer | Youth Soccer
> 
> 
> The loss of the Development Academy is going to have ripple effects throughout the soccer landscape for years to come but one of the immediate consequences will be in scouting. TDS chats with a US Soccer Scout about the next steps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.topdrawersoccer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 6924


I paid bro


----------



## mid10

jpeter said:


> Is there a none of the above option for that completely speculative outline?
> 
> USL academy collaboration does make sense but that already exists so why would MLS announce a new league? MWM already let us know that MLS was offering something different vs that.
> 
> Local Non MlS clubs have confirmed they have been asked to join this new league none of which is Incorporated in those outlines.
> 
> USYS has come out with at least 2 releases indicating they are offering some type of programming for this new league.
> 
> I don't really get this article but maybe someone else can shed some light.


----------



## jpeter

mid10 said:


> View attachment 6961


Now that sounds plausable so much for that TD piece and the limited two age groups and rest of the that speculation. 

Hope they get back to training and playing soon so they can actually afford to move this forward. 









						Luchi Gonzalez: Development Academy deserves credit, but laments "micromanaging" | MLSSoccer.com
					

Long-time academy boss Luchi Gonzalez credits DA, but laments "micromanaging"




					www.mlssoccer.com


----------



## SocalWestDad

Hello People,

 NPL West is gone for Youngers and no longer exists. It will now be called ECNL Juniors with the same teams from before FC Golden St, Strikers, Pats, Real so Cal, Arsenal, Surf and others to be announced. No news on what the younger MLS Academies are going to do since that was their only league to compete in.


----------



## foreveryoung

SocalWestDad said:


> Hello People,
> 
> NPL West is gone for Youngers and no longer exists. It will now be called ECNL Juniors with the same teams from before FC Golden St, Strikers, Pats, Real so Cal, Arsenal, Surf and others to be announced. No news on what the younger MLS Academies are going to do since that was their only league to compete in.


Hopefully go back to their local league so 9 and 10 year olds aren’t driving all over SoCal to play league matches.


----------



## focomoso

foreveryoung said:


> Hopefully go back to their local league so 9 and 10 year olds aren’t driving all over SoCal to play league matches.


For us, there was way more traveling in Coast than when we went to the DA. SCDSL seems to be somewhere in the middle with all the trips to Sliverlakes.


----------



## Kante

really interesting interview w/ Rocky Delgadillo about LAUFA and how they been adjusting to DA going away. Great get by SoccerAmerica. Would be really interested to see if what Delgadillo says synchs w/ what LAUFA families are seeing. Not saying it doesn't, just interested in folks' feedback.

(and btw, not affiliated w/ SA in any way except for appreciating really good work) 









						Rocky Delgadillo on Central Los Angeles club LAUFA's future without the Development Academy
					

Rocky Delgadillo, the former City Attorney of Los Angeles (2001-2009), is the founder and president of Los Angeles United Futbal Academy, a youth club serving over 500 players based in Central Los Angeles.




					www.socceramerica.com


----------



## messy

Kante said:


> really interesting interview w/ Rocky Delgadillo about LAUFA and how they been adjusting to DA going away. Great get by SoccerAmerica. Would be really interested to see if what Delgadillo says synchs w/ what LAUFA families are seeing. Not saying it doesn't, just interested in folks' feedback.
> 
> (and btw, not affiliated w/ SA in any way except for appreciating really good work)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocky Delgadillo on Central Los Angeles club LAUFA's future without the Development Academy
> 
> 
> Rocky Delgadillo, the former City Attorney of Los Angeles (2001-2009), is the founder and president of Los Angeles United Futbal Academy, a youth club serving over 500 players based in Central Los Angeles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.socceramerica.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 6988


Good for him, but they interviewed the wrong guy. Paul Walker of TFA has an incredible funded program and puts a muuuuuch better product on the field.


----------



## Kante

messy said:


> Good for him, but they interviewed the wrong guy. Paul Walker of TFA has an incredible funded program and puts a muuuuuch better product on the field.


good point on PW. would be fascinated to hear from him on everything that's going on.


----------



## messy

Kante said:


> good point on PW. would be fascinated to hear from him on everything that's going on.


Same here. The establishment doesn't like him much...


----------



## lafalafa

messy said:


> Good for him, but they interviewed the wrong guy. Paul Walker of TFA has an incredible funded program and puts a muuuuuch better product on the field.


RD is a well spoken politician who tells people what they want to hear even if reality is sometimes vastly different.

PW tells like it is without as much filter, he might be a good business planner but maybe doesn't interview as well.


----------



## younothat

Peter Vermes on what MLS needs to get right with new youth program and what's on front-burner for season's re-start








						Peter Vermes on what MLS needs to get right with new youth program and what's on front-burner for season's re-start
					

Sporting KCs head coach and sporting director says MLS must step carefully following the Development Academy's demise.




					www.socceramerica.com
				




My player will be in college but for those that will still be around if MLS gets this new youth league off the ground this year.   MLS and the CA teams look like there going to have a more difficult time with the Stage 4 restrictions outlined by the state government.

"The first step of U.S. Soccer announcing they won’t be a leader in that space is an important one," he said on a media conference call on Wednesday, "because nobody is investing more money into player development than MLS. For us to lead that space, it only makes sense. I also think that we have to be very careful. There were some really good things that came out of the DA, and there were also some things that were done poorly. Hopefully, we can learn from the things that were done poorly and expand upon them."

Vermes says the new league can't be just about the MLS academies.

"It’s about the non-MLS academies and standalone youth clubs," he said. "They also need guidance and assistance, not that they don’t have good directors in their clubs, but I think our country is due for a good leader in this space who works with all of the groups in a very collaborative manner. I don’t think that’s taken place in the way that it should have. There’s been too much dictation and at times unrealistic terms or standards set. It’s hard to expect certain clubs to pay for everything. It’s just not feasible. They have to generate too much revenue, which is not part of their model. There has to be a different way of laying this out."

Like others involved in player development around MLS, Vermes says international competition will be an important part of the youth programs the clubs adopt.

"I also think that MLS academies have to make sure that we continue to have challenging competitions that optimize the potential that we have within our clubs," he said. "That would also include international competition for some of your younger groups. I think it’s feasible, absolutely, but I also think MLS doesn’t have to be the fastest to the table with a plan. We have to be the group that comes to the table with the best plan. I don’t think we have to be quick in putting something together. It’s about quality and high-level competition for all of the groups, not just MLS academies."

Vermes believes MLS will come out stronger following the financial hit it will take because of the COVID-19 outbreak.

"We all know that this situation has affected the global economy," he said. "Sporting Kansas City and MLS are not immune to that. We do have something that we can at least hang our hat on. We have incredibly stable ownership groups in this league. I don’t think any of them ever got in for the short term. I think all of them got in for the long term. It’s like the stock market. If you look at the stock market over its history, there’s been times of downturn. But it always overcome that, surpass that and get stronger over time. I feel the same thing will happen with MLS. Regarding players, I think they are as motivated—if not more motivated—in that they want to get back on the field as soon as possible. I know there are negotiations between the league and players, but I’m not privy to those. I’m very confident we will navigate this environment, and I truly believe that at some point we’ll be stronger than ever."

Vermes says MLS is formulating plans for the resumption of training -- individual workouts, then small group trainings and eventually full-team training sessions -- and has discussed the idea of playing league games in a tournament format.

"There are some cities that are a lot more open than others," he said, "and some cities that will become open a lot more quickly than others. If you had to wait for all 26 cities to open up, you could be waiting for a long time. We’ve talked about the possibility of having [up to] four locations where you could aggregate a number of teams in each of those locations and then play games that would count towards league play. It would be more a tournament style, and as you’re doing that over a certain number of weeks, as other cities open up, you could start to go back to your home cities. It’s definitely something that’s on the front-burner at the moment and something that has a lot of legs about possible implementation. You also have to realize that you’d be moving mountains to make that happen. There would be a lot of logistics, so there are a lot of people behind the scenes looking to see if that could actually happen. I’d like to think it could."


----------



## Son

Is FC Dallas going to field ECNL teams as well as teams for the new  MLS/USYS league?  Without arguably the strongest boys club, the new league seem bare in that part of the country.


----------



## jpeter

Son said:


> Is FC Dallas going to field ECNL teams as well as teams for the new  MLS/USYS league?  Without arguably the strongest boys club, the new league seem bare in that part of the country.


Yes there are multiple clubs/organizations planning on playing in various league concurrently.   

In some cases ECNL will not be the first team like DA was or MLS/USYS may not be the first team either.  USL and other leagues will be involved and players will have options.    

If MLS gets back to playing & collecting some revenue in the summer  league might happen for the fall.  If they don't get back until fall well anybody's guess.


----------



## watfly

Briefly saw a list ot teams. 16 in southwest division.  No surprise, DA teams minus ECNL teams plus new Liverpool.  Supposedly MLS is going to make announcement Monday.


----------



## messy

watfly said:


> Briefly saw a list ot teams. 16 in southwest division.  No surprise, DA teams minus ECNL teams plus new Liverpool.  Supposedly MLS is going to make announcement Monday.


Were age groups listed?


----------



## WuTang

watfly said:


> Briefly saw a list ot teams. 16 in southwest division.  No surprise, DA teams minus ECNL teams plus new Liverpool.  Supposedly MLS is going to make announcement Monday.


Do you have link?


----------



## watfly

messy said:


> Were age groups listed?


Yes, U12 through I didn't notice, sorry, but U16 was a single age group.



WuTang said:


> Do you have link?


Nope, I saw it on a zoom meeting and it was just on the screen briefly.


----------



## SocalWestDad

@messy My son just got paperwork to play ECNL and he's u12. He played in the NPL West u11 and u12 last year, which no longer exist for the youngers. As for age groups, u12,u13,u14,u15,u16,17,u18-19.


----------



## Husky13

SocalWestDad said:


> @messy My son just got paperwork to play ECNL and he's u12. He played in the NPL West u11 and u12 last year, which no longer exist for the youngers. As for age groups, u12,u13,u14,u15,u16,17,u18-19.


To clarify, regarding these age groups, are you referring to the new MLS league?


----------



## SocalWestDad

Husky13 said:


> To clarify, regarding these age groups, are you referring to the new MLS league?


 I am referring to ECNL. The MLS league is just talk right now,. MLS teams will have no substantial income to fund their academy teams and I don't know whats going to happen with the academy teams. I saw the La Galaxy and San Jose terminated their Girls DA program.


----------



## watfly

SocalWestDad said:


> I am referring to ECNL. The MLS league is just talk right now,. MLS teams will have no substantial income to fund their academy teams and I don't know whats going to happen with the academy teams. I saw the La Galaxy and San Jose terminated their Girls DA program.


From what I saw it was significantly more than just talk, but yes the pissing match of which league will be better has already begun in earnest.  There is some high quality BS being spewed by the DOCs from both leagues and the Eskimos are buying the ice.  Time will tell, ECNL certainly has a head start, but i suspect both leagues will have something to offer.


----------



## messy

watfly said:


> From what I saw it was significantly more than just talk, but yes the pissing match of which league will be better has already begun in earnest.  There is some high quality BS being spewed by the DOCs from both leagues and the Eskimos are buying the ice.  Time will tell, ECNL certainly has a head start, but i suspect both leagues will have something to offer.


I don't think it will be much of a pissing match. If the MLS league still has funded teams, that will be much better than ECNL.


----------



## NumberTen

watfly said:


> From what I saw it was significantly more than just talk, but yes the pissing match of which league will be better has already begun in earnest.  There is some high quality BS being spewed by the DOCs from both leagues and the Eskimos are buying the ice.  Time will tell, ECNL certainly has a head start, but i suspect both leagues will have something to offer.


Its hard to imagine where the non-MLS clubs are going to play any meaningful number of games.  For example, in San Diego three clubs may be in this new league (Albion, City, Rebels), What MLS teams are they going to play?  LA is the closest and then what, play the other non-mls teams?  Not really a step up in competition, with a lot of the other DA teams playing ECNL.  I would say that there will be significant travel involved.


----------



## NumberTen

messy said:


> I don't think it will be much of a pissing match. If the MLS league still has funded teams, that will be much better than ECNL.


I don't believe that any of the San Diego DA teams were fully funded.  They definitely wont be now.


----------



## Kante

watfly said:


> From what I saw it was significantly more than just talk, but yes the pissing match of which league will be better has already begun in earnest.  There is some high quality BS being spewed by the DOCs from both leagues and the Eskimos are buying the ice.  Time will tell, ECNL certainly has a head start, but i suspect both leagues will have something to offer.


Thx for this. From memory, do you have an idea of what teams will be included that you can share?


----------



## Kante

Kante said:


> Thx for this. From memory, do you have an idea of what teams will be included that you can share?


Here's list of SoCal DA teams so far (?) not affiliated w/ ECNL: 1. SDSC, 2. Albion, 3. Chula Vista, 4. Murrieta, 5. Nomads, 6. Rebels, 7. TFA, 8. LAUFA, 9.Ventura Fusion, 10. Santa Barbara SC, 11. LAG, 12. LAFC, 13. Barca


----------



## jpeter

Kante said:


> Here's list of SoCal DA teams so far (?) not affiliated w/ ECNL: 1. SDSC, 2. Albion, 3. Chula Vista, 4. Murrieta, 5. Nomads, 6. Rebels, 7. TFA, 8. LAUFA, 9.Ventura Fusion, 10. Santa Barbara SC, 11. LAG, 12. LAFC, 13. Barca


Some of those where not listed on the draft slide I saw last week and there was some other surprises including clubs that weren't in DA previously.   Not my place to share the details and I didn't capture the screens.  Was told they where still adding or confirming some so let's see what the next official release will be which I was told will be out around May 15th.

In any case for the olders I have a hunch that there will be a shake/mashup of player movement so it really much too early to tell what teams will consist of when play resumes.

USL two cancelled the summer league and USL academy A now will start in spring 2021so these will be a factor in some plans as MLS/USYS looks to partner up with them in some manner.








						USL Academy League Offers New Model, Broader Opportunity for Collaboration
					

Legion FC’s Heaps praises new plan, opportunity to nurture talent across city and region




					www.uslsoccer.com


----------



## NumberTen

Kante said:


> Here's list of SoCal DA teams so far (?) not affiliated w/ ECNL: 1. SDSC, 2. Albion, 3. Chula Vista, 4. Murrieta, 5. Nomads, 6. Rebels, 7. TFA, 8. LAUFA, 9.Ventura Fusion, 10. Santa Barbara SC, 11. LAG, 12. LAFC, 13. Barca


SDSC is now boys ECNL and ECRL.


----------



## Messi>CR7

Kante said:


> Here's list of SoCal DA teams so far (?) not affiliated w/ ECNL: 1. SDSC, 2. Albion, 3. Chula Vista, 4. Murrieta, 5. Nomads, 6. Rebels, 7. TFA, 8. LAUFA, 9.Ventura Fusion, 10. Santa Barbara SC, 11. LAG, 12. LAFC, 13. Barca


SDSC joined ECNL at the end of April.








						San Diego SC Joins ECNL Southwest Conference for 2020-2021
					

RICHMOND, VA (April 30, 2020) – The ECNL Boys is excited to announce that San Diego Soccer Club has joined the recently-expanded Southwest Conference for the 2020-2021 season. The addition of SDSC marks the seventh club to join the Conference since mid-April, joining Pateadores, Strikers FC...




					www.boysecnl.com


----------



## watfly

Kante said:


> Here's list of SoCal DA teams so far (?) not affiliated w/ ECNL: 1. SDSC, 2. Albion, 3. Chula Vista, 4. Murrieta, 5. Nomads, 6. Rebels, 7. TFA, 8. LAUFA, 9.Ventura Fusion, 10. Santa Barbara SC, 11. LAG, 12. LAFC, 13. Barca


My short term memory sucks so take this with a grain of salt although I know for certain SDSC is in ECNL (although they were actually on the MLS list)

To the best of my recollection these teams I remember being in: Albion, CV, Nomads, TFA, LAUFA, Fusion, LAG, LAFC

Can't recall about Barca or Santa Barbara.  I looked specifically for Rebels but didn't see them, but the list scrolled by pretty quickly.  RSL Arizona and Del Sol were listed as well.  Since SDSC was on the list, I assume it was a proposed list and not a confirmed list.

Here are some other things we were told but I can't vouch for its accuracy and please don't shoot the messenger.  10 week season with 40-50 games (which seems like an excessive # of games).  It was claimed that ECNL's season is only 5 weeks.  It was also implied that high school soccer may be prohibited.  It was claimed that there would be an attempt to match up teams based on ability for games.  Not for every game, but most games.  I.e.  LAG would probably play LAFC more than say CV would play LAFC, but CV would play City, Nomads etc than LAG would.


----------



## Kante

watfly said:


> My short term memory sucks so take this with a grain of salt although I know for certain SDSC is in ECNL (although they were actually on the MLS list)
> 
> To the best of my recollection these teams I remember being in: Albion, CV, Nomads, TFA, LAUFA, Fusion, LAG, LAFC
> 
> Can't recall about Barca or Santa Barbara.  I looked specifically for Rebels but didn't see them, but the list scrolled by pretty quickly.  RSL Arizona and Del Sol were listed as well.  Since SDSC was on the list, I assume it was a proposed list and not a confirmed list.
> 
> Here are some other things we were told but I can't vouch for its accuracy and please don't shoot the messenger.  10 week season with 40-50 games (which seems like an excessive # of games).  It was claimed that ECNL's season is only 5 weeks.  It was also implied that high school soccer may be prohibited.  It was claimed that there would be an attempt to match up teams based on ability for games.  Not for every game, but most games.  I.e.  LAG would probably play LAFC more than say CV would play LAFC, but CV would play City, Nomads etc than LAG would.


got it. very helpful. thanks!


----------



## jpeter

watfly said:


> My short term memory sucks so take this with a grain of salt although I know for certain SDSC is in ECNL (although they were actually on the MLS list)
> 
> To the best of my recollection these teams I remember being in: Albion, CV, Nomads, TFA, LAUFA, Fusion, LAG, LAFC
> 
> Can't recall about Barca or Santa Barbara.  I looked specifically for Rebels but didn't see them, but the list scrolled by pretty quickly.  RSL Arizona and Del Sol were listed as well.  Since SDSC was on the list, I assume it was a proposed list and not a confirmed list.
> 
> Here are some other things we were told but I can't vouch for its accuracy and please don't shoot the messenger.  10 week season with 40-50 games (which seems like an excessive # of games).  It was claimed that ECNL's season is only 5 weeks.  It was also implied that high school soccer may be prohibited.  It was claimed that there would be an attempt to match up teams based on ability for games.  Not for every game, but most games.  I.e.  LAG would probably play LAFC more than say CV would play LAFC, but CV would play City, Nomads etc than LAG would.


RSL-AZ is in ECNL and has been from the beginning. The only had u12-13 in DA

RSL-Utah is u15-u18/19 in Utah.

I don't know what actually are the intentions for U15 or less are as I've only seen stuff that reference U15+ so far but that's all I'm interested in so maybe I just didn't tune in on time or noticed.


----------



## watfly

The other thing that was specifically mentioned was that FC Dallas would be in the MLS.  Which is either untrue, or FC Dallas is going to field teams in both ECNL (which FC Dallas announced) and MLS.  I would think for political reasons if FC Dallas was playing in both leagues that they would put their first team in the MLS.  I know RSL AZ had a DA and ECNL team last year with first team in DA.  I can't imagine they would flip flop the teams and make ECNL the first team for the coming year, but I guess anything is possible.


----------



## watfly

jpeter said:


> RSL-AZ is in ECNL and has been from the beginning. The only had u12-13 in DA
> 
> RSL-Utah is u15-u18/19 in Utah.
> 
> I don't know what actually are the intentions for U15 or less are as I've only seen stuff that reference U15+ so far but that's all I'm interested in so maybe I just didn't tune in on time or noticed.


Looks like I was typing while you posted.  Yeah, don't know the story is with RSL-AZ, I swear I saw them on the MLS "list" but could be wrong, or again it was the proposed but not confirmed list.  I assume RSL-UT is playing in the MLS league?


----------



## jpeter

watfly said:


> The other thing that was specifically mentioned was that FC Dallas would be in the MLS.  Which is either untrue, or FC Dallas is going to field teams in both ECNL (which FC Dallas announced) and MLS.  I would think for political reasons if FC Dallas was playing in both leagues that they would put their first team in the MLS.  I know RSL AZ had a DA and ECNL team last year with first team in DA.  I can't imagine they would flip flop the teams and make ECNL the first team for the coming year, but I guess anything is possible.


Yes there will be clubs in both leagues, Dallas not the only ones as RSL was already in both and Solar also.   Mashup/movement like I mentioned previously.


----------



## jpeter

watfly said:


> Looks like I was typing while you posted.  Yeah, don't know the story is with RSL-AZ, I swear I saw them on the MLS "list" but could be wrong, or again it was the proposed but not confirmed list.  I assume RSL-UT is playing in the MLS league?


No worries it's all drafts and eventually it will be published on what's what.  Like a moving target


----------



## Dargle

jpeter said:


> Yes there will be clubs in both leagues, Dallas not the only ones as RSL was already in both and Solar also.   Mashup/movement like I mentioned previously.


There's a certain amount of logic in having a foot in both doors to see how things go, at least at the beginning.  It will take a little while before Boys ECNL is established enough that it can push the "All In" position it was pushing with the girls when there were clubs with both ECNL and GDA.


----------



## clsafe

Dallas and Houston Youth Academy's are in ECNL.


----------



## TheKopp

Or MLS league starts at an older age so their youngers need another league? ‍


----------



## clsafe

clsafe said:


> Dallas and Houston Youth Academy's are in ECNL.


I should add Youth Academy is different than MLS academy.  Youth Academy is almost like their affiliate club, but more integrated than that... but similar to the old LA Galaxy - San Diego.


----------



## full90

FWIW a friend of a friend recently joined an mls organization (rapids if it matters) and said the mls academy plan is a mess and there’s very little motivation and organization to make it happen. He said it will be a mess this year (maybe up and running by January. Maybe). If they play this fall it won’t be a league just games and showcase weekends with only mls teams. Not motivated to go play a league that will have teams that were bottom feeder DA teams and/or weren’t even DA.

This is third hand and from a guy who just joined rapids organization. So take it fwiw.


----------



## Husky13

full90 said:


> FWIW a friend of a friend recently joined an mls organization (rapids if it matters) and said the mls academy plan is a mess and there’s very little motivation and organization to make it happen. He said it will be a mess this year (maybe up and running by January. Maybe). If they play this fall it won’t be a league just games and showcase weekends with only mls teams. Not motivated to go play a league that will have teams that were bottom feeder DA teams and/or weren’t even DA.
> 
> This is third hand and from a guy who just joined rapids organization. So take it fwiw.


I won't be surprised if this is how things end up going in terms of timing of league play.  But, the MLS clubs have enough control over things now to ensure their teams can play the teams they want them to play.  I also find it hard to believe that the people in the MLS academies aren't motivated to make this happen - they not only want to keep their jobs, they also like games (just like the players) and won't want to just supervise trainings for the next 6 months.

So, are we supposedly still waiting for some kind of an announcement from MLS on the academy league today?


----------



## jpeter

Husky13 said:


> I won't be surprised if this is how things end up going in terms of timing of league play.  But, the MLS clubs have enough control over things now to ensure their teams can play the teams they want them to play.  I also find it hard to believe that the people in the MLS academies aren't motivated to make this happen - they not only want to keep their jobs, they also like games (just like the players) and won't want to just supervise trainings for the next 6 months.
> 
> So, are we supposedly still waiting for some kind of an announcement from MLS on the academy league today?


This week around or before May 15th was told there will be some updates coming.

I have a hunch there are trying to time things in accordance with possible  opening for group training.  If MLS confirms the June 8th  date for that perhaps the youth teams can get back in some limited forms also.

Salvaging some of the season and working with some models without fans  that make economic sense is their big priority now.  If that can be accomplished youth play in a formal league might begin in fall.  If not spring 2021 is more likely and what USL decided on.


----------



## watfly

Husky13 said:


> So, are we supposedly still waiting for some kind of an announcement from MLS on the academy league today?


That's what we were told but I'm not holding my breath for today or the 15th.


----------



## galaxydad

I just don’t see how the non fully funded clubs are going to compete. They will be worse off than the Non MLS DA teams defecting to ECNL. They could not keep up with cash being thrown their way from the MLS. Even TFA only has a team or two that can play with the big boys( the 05 team is legit). They should just play Coast or SCDSL


----------



## Dargle

galaxydad said:


> I just don’t see how the non fully funded clubs are going to compete. They will be worse off than the Non MLS DA teams defecting to ECNL. They could not keep up with cash being thrown their way from the MLS. Even TFA only has a team or two that can play with the big boys( the 05 team is legit). They should just play Coast or SCDSL


As with everything else, the question is which league will be perceived as #1 by players/parents. My guess is that the theory for non-MLS teams is that if the best players go to the MLS academies and players want to play against the best players, even if only to get a chance to be scouted by those MLS academy coaches or by the D1 coaches who scout the games in the MLS league, then they'll be willing to play for the non-MLS teams in that league.  

ECNL is probably better for the clubs in terms of league organization and stability, being able to determine your club's own fate (since clubs have a seat at the table and there won't be MLS teams that run the league to benefit themselves) and making it easier to keep your own players.  Whether that translates to benefits for the players is not as clear.  HS play is less of a draw for boys than girls, but it might help with some kids if the MLS league doesn't allow it or plays through it.  There might be more organized college showcases for ECNL teams too since MLS is less likely to care about that (although MLS does still place a lot of players in D1 schools every year and they retain their rights and sometimes sign them as homegrown players).  

The real question will be how the MLS league treats the non-MLS teams.  If the non-MLS teams only get limited games against the MLS teams to provide local scrimmages and otherwise just play against themselves, that will probably get old fast.  Even then, for players the tie to the MLS academies may be enough to differentiate the league from ECNL and other local options.


----------



## lafalafa

Dargle said:


> As with everything else, the question is which league will be perceived as #1 by players/parents. My guess is that the theory for non-MLS teams is that if the best players go to the MLS academies and players want to play against the best players, even if only to get a chance to be scouted by those MLS academy coaches or by the D1 coaches who scout the games in the MLS league, then they'll be willing to play for the non-MLS teams in that league.
> 
> ECNL is probably better for the clubs in terms of league organization and stability, being able to determine your club's own fate (since clubs have a seat at the table and there won't be MLS teams that run the league to benefit themselves) and making it easier to keep your own players.  Whether that translates to benefits for the players is not as clear.  HS play is less of a draw for boys than girls, but it might help with some kids if the MLS league doesn't allow it or plays through it.  There might be more organized college showcases for ECNL teams too since MLS is less likely to care about that (although MLS does still place a lot of players in D1 schools every year and they retain their rights and sometimes sign them as homegrown players).
> 
> The real question will be how the MLS league treats the non-MLS teams.  If the non-MLS teams only get limited games against the MLS teams to provide local scrimmages and otherwise just play against themselves, that will probably get old fast.  Even then, for players the tie to the MLS academies may be enough to differentiate the league from ECNL and other local options.


Alot of this comes down to resources and money.  With ussda out of the picture those club subsidies and travel scholarships are not going to be forthcoming anymore. 

Will MLS clubs propely fund this new league to make it successful? I doubt they will spend like what they did on the DA side given their current financial situation.  At what point will they even have funds to allocate? Right now that's not the case.

On the clubside Ecnl has traditionally been a very expensive League to be a member of with parents footing the bill.  That bill could be getting larger, club don't have the da subsidies any longer and with their income off they will likely not be offering handouts at previous levels.   Some parents & players are going to be priced out and will stick with local leagues.


----------



## watfly

Maybe wrong forum, but is ECNL planning on increasing the number of games they play?  It looks like they play 18-20 games per regular season and DA was in the neighborhood of 30, and I've heard claimed that MLS will play more.


----------



## Banana Hammock

watfly said:


> Maybe wrong forum, but is ECNL planning on increasing the number of games they play?  It looks like they play 18-20 games per regular season and DA was in the neighborhood of 30, and I've heard claimed that MLS will play more.


our club said 26 game league season


----------



## Son

full90 said:


> FWIW a friend of a friend recently joined an mls organization (rapids if it matters) and said the mls academy plan is a mess and there’s very little motivation and organization to make it happen. He said it will be a mess this year (maybe up and running by January. Maybe). If they play this fall it won’t be a league just games and showcase weekends with only mls teams. Not motivated to go play a league that will have teams that were bottom feeder DA teams and/or weren’t even DA.
> 
> This is third hand and from a guy who just joined rapids organization. So take it fwiw.



I heard same from coach friend in a non-MLS club.  They are not getting a lot of communications and it is currently very disorganized.  He is not sure where their club will fit in in the new league and whether they are in a lower tier than the one for MLS teams.


----------



## gkmom

So, still no announcement from MLS on the academy league?


----------



## Raakjoer

Twitter seems to be getting rumors, etc. so i imagine an announcement is forthcoming in the next 24-48 hours. But, who knows.


----------



## Son

This interview with Kutney suggests that ECNL participants (including FC Dallas) are expected to play their stronger teams in ECNL. 

An interview with ECNL Boys Commissioner, Jason Kutney

*With the end of the DA, many non-MLS DA clubs have been searching for new homes. The ECNL has been flooded with requests to join the league.

ECNL applicants must demonstrate a top-level training system and assert that they will be sending their top teams to the ECNL. FC Dallas, for example, is expected to have their top teams in the ECNL.*


----------



## texanincali

Lots of rumors flying at the moment, but I am hearing that this league isn't coming together as easy as everyone thought.  

Just some of the things I've heard.

Limited amount of games
League will not let players participate in any other league (can't play in an ECNL weekend game if no MLS league game in on the schedule that week)
MLS wants to hold rights of all players participating in league
Tournament restrictions that have to be approved by MLS
All of this is just talk at the moment, but it looks like instead of trying to fix what was broken with USSDA, they want to carry on with some of the restrictions that people didn't like.


----------



## messy

texanincali said:


> Lots of rumors flying at the moment, but I am hearing that this league isn't coming together as easy as everyone thought.
> 
> Just some of the things I've heard.
> 
> Limited amount of games
> League will not let players participate in any other league (can't play in an ECNL weekend game if no MLS league game in on the schedule that week)
> MLS wants to hold rights of all players participating in league
> Tournament restrictions that have to be approved by MLS
> All of this is just talk at the moment, but it looks like instead of trying to fix what was broken with USSDA, they want to carry on with some of the restrictions that people didn't like.


Isn't that how MLS always handled their academies? No outside competition, you're a "homegrown" and, as of last year, there's reciprocity. Sounds the same.


----------



## texanincali

messy said:


> Isn't that how MLS always handled their academies? No outside competition, you're a "homegrown" and, as of last year, there's reciprocity. Sounds the same.


That's how USSF handled outside competition, MLS just followed the rules as did the non-MLS clubs.  It would make sense for a league that is just forming to allow some discretion by the clubs.  It is a perfect opportunity to fix what was broken in USSDA.

For example, if 4 kids didn't get any playing time in their Saturday MLS League game, what is the harm of letting them roster and play with the ECNL team on Sunday?  What is the harm of letting San Diego Surf play in any tournament of their choosing when there is a 2-3 week break in MLS League action?


----------



## Cibo

texanincali said:


> That's how USSF handled outside competition, MLS just followed the rules as did the non-MLS clubs.  It would make sense for a league that is just forming to allow some discretion by the clubs.  It is a perfect opportunity to fix what was broken in USSDA.
> 
> For example, if 4 kids didn't get any playing time in their Saturday MLS League game, what is the harm of letting them roster and play with the ECNL team on Sunday?  What is the harm of letting San Diego Surf play in any tournament of their choosing when there is a 2-3 week break in MLS League action?


These MLS rules are similar to DA and reasonable. Limited amount of games, no participation in any other league and tournament restrictions are all part of the development training to games ratio. If allowed, its tough to regulate clubs that will wear out their top players just to win matches in outside competitions, but not impossible. Players not roster for a match or that play less than 25% of a match should be eligible to play another match on the same weekend. Why not just create a simple reporting system to track outside competition? Instead of requesting permission to attend a tournament when there is a 2-3 week break, just add the players to the tracking system to keep clubs honest. 

Now the interesting point is holding the rights to all players in the league. If this holds true, I'd expect the MLS would need to provide some financial support either direct to clubs or through scholarships for non-MLS academies.


----------



## texanincali

Cibo said:


> These MLS rules are similar to DA and reasonable. Limited amount of games, no participation in any other league and tournament restrictions are all part of the development training to games ratio. If allowed, its tough to regulate clubs that will wear out their top players just to win matches in outside competitions, but not impossible. Players not roster for a match or that play less than 25% of a match should be eligible to play another match on the same weekend. Why not just create a simple reporting system to track outside competition? Instead of requesting permission to attend a tournament when there is a 2-3 week break, just add the players to the tracking system to keep clubs honest.
> 
> Now the interesting point is holding the rights to all players in the league. If this holds true, I'd expect the MLS would need to provide some financial support either direct to clubs or through scholarships for non-MLS academies.


That is a great idea and one that wouldn't be too difficult to pull off.  There has to be something in place to keep clubs from running their top players into the ground, but there should also be an outlet for the players that don't always get a lot of match time in MLS League.


----------



## Kante

For LA-based teams, average cost of one trip to play other MLS teams will likely be about $6,000 per trip per age group team.

conservatively assumes 20 people traveling per one u17 team, from LA to Chicago (middle of country) w/ $2200 in total airfare, $1100 in total hotel (assumes two matches per trip so two hotel nights) $1000 for van rentals and gas, and $1800 for meals).

Assuming 30 regular season games (not including showcases, tournaments or play-offs), with half at home, and one match against the other LA MLS team w/ nominal travel costs, that's, very conservatively (assumes two matches per trip plus only 20 people traveling per team plus the current Covid 19-driven low rates on travel eg, $110 rt airfare LA to Chi per person), about an average of$42,000 in travel costs for regular season away games for one team for one season.

Add-in showcases, tournaments and playoffs and that's close to $70,000 for travel for one MLS academy team per season. Assuming three teams - u15, u17 and u19 - that's - conservatively - an average of +$210,000 in 2020-21 incremental travel costs for each MLS academy.

But, if MLS teams can convince enough local non-MLS clubs to play in the MLS academy league or are willing to play ECNL teams (and vice versa), then those 2020-21 travel costs go way down. 

With US Soccer scholarships and subsidies going away, maybe it's worth it to the MLS clubs to share the love a little bit. Certainly seems cost-effective.


----------



## Kante




----------



## Kante

for reference, here's the map with just MLS teams. Teams east of the Mississippi will probably have travel costs about -50% lower than the other teams if the MLS academy league is just MLS. Maybe the MLS League is two regions, west and east, w/ the west region having non-MLS teams... Be interesting to see if clubs like Barca, TFA, and De Anza will be willing to give up rights to their players. Also, west would need 2-4 more teams (already assuming Sac Republic will be MLS...). Thoughts on which other clubs?


----------



## Raakjoer




----------



## Raakjoer

Would be a surprise to me considering a lot of tweets from MLS academies congratulating 06 players for signing. I assume u15 is still part of the plan or a lot of kids/parents are going to be pretty upset.


----------



## messy

Kante said:


> for reference, here's the map with just MLS teams. Teams east of the Mississippi will probably have travel costs about -50% lower than the other teams if the MLS academy league is just MLS. Maybe the MLS League is two regions, west and east, w/ the west region having non-MLS teams... Be interesting to see if clubs like Barca, TFA, and De Anza will be willing to give up rights to their players. Also, west would need 2-4 more teams (already assuming Sac Republic will be MLS...). Thoughts on which other clubs?
> 
> 
> View attachment 7161


I like your suggestions of TFA and Sac'to and DeAnza. Maybe add Vancouver? Then with Socal you might include such non-MLS clubs as a couple of AZ teams, in addition to Barca.  Santa Cruz Breakers. Crossfire Premier. Real So Cal and Golden State always worthy. Starts to look a lot like the original DA map my oldest played 10 years ago.


----------



## Raakjoer




----------



## messy

Raakjoer said:


> View attachment 7163


The MLS clubs in LA had said they were keeping youngers, but I didn't know specifics until now.


----------



## Raakjoer

From the article:

The sources said that the new league will include Under-13, -14, -15, -17 and -19 age groups. MLS teams will be required to field U-15 and U-17 squads, but it will be up to individual clubs if they want to field teams in the other four age groups. The league is also considering an Under-16 division, though there are no current plans for it to be included in the first season.


----------



## Kante

From the Athletic article, here's the list of non-MLS clubs. SoCal/SoCal Adjacent in blue bold.

"The full list of the 65 non-MLS clubs, known as “founding members,” is below: 

Phoenix Rising FC (USL), RGV FC Toros Academy (USL), Saint Louis FC (USL), San Antonio FC (USL), Tampa Bay United Rowdies (USL), *Barca Residency Academy,* IMG Academy, Shattuck-St. Mary’s, NEFC, SF Glens, *Albion SC*, Ballistic United, Baltimore Armour, Bayside Futebol Club, Beachside of Connecticut, Bethesda FC, Blau Weiss Gottschee, Breakers, Cedar Stars Academy Bergen, Cedar Stars Academy Monmouth, Chargers Soccer Club, Chicago FC United, *Chula Vista FC*, Cincinnati Premier Soccer Club, *City SC*, De Anza Force, Empire United Soccer Academy, FC Delco, FC Greater Boston Bolts, FC Westchester, Florida Rush Soccer Club, Indiana Fire Academy, Internationals, Jacksonville FC, *L.A. United Football Academy*, *LA Surf Soccer Club*, Lanier Soccer Academy, Metropolitan Oval, Miami Rush Kendall SC, Michigan Wolves, *Murrieta Surf Soccer Club*, New York Soccer Club, *Nomads*, Oakwood Soccer Club, PA Classics, Player Development Academy, Real Colorado, RISE Soccer Club, *RSL Arizona*, *Santa Barbara Soccer Club*, *SC Del Sol*, Seacoast United, SF Elite, Silicon Valley SA, Sockers FC Chicago, Solar Soccer Club, South Florida Football Academy, Southern Soccer Academy, *Total Futbol Academy*, TSF Academy, Valeo Futbol Club, VARDAR Soccer Club, *Ventura County Fusion*, West Florida Flames, Weston FC


----------



## Son

So much for more meaningful games.

Some of those clubs were not very competitive when they were DAs a few months ago.


----------



## Kante

messy said:


> The MLS clubs in LA had said they were keeping youngers, but I didn't know specifics until now.


so, u13 and u14 for non-MLS clubs w/ optional u15+ teams where clubs are competitive w/ MLS i.e. Barca and TFA, and maybe LAUFA, Nomads and Albion?

the socal teams listed seem to imply this.


----------



## messy

Kante said:


> so, u13 and u14 for non-MLS clubs w/ optional u15+ teams where clubs are competitive w/ MLS i.e. Barca and TFA, and maybe LAUFA, Nomads and Albion?
> 
> the socal teams listed seem to imply this.


And as Son mentions, several of the teams not very competitive at all.


----------



## Patandpats

Can someone clarify, are the non MLS teams going to play u17 and u19 vs MLS teams?  We were told a month ago that at least by u19 the MLS clubs would have their own league.


----------



## futbol10

__





						MLS & Elite Youth Clubs | MLSSoccer.com
					

MLS & Elite Youth Clubs




					www.mlssoccer.com


----------



## jpeter

Patandpats said:


> Can someone clarify, are the non MLS teams going to play u17 and u19 vs MLS teams?  We were told a month ago that at least by u19 the MLS clubs would have their own league.


All one league:  MLS U15, U17, U19 optional for all other age groups

Non-MLS all age groups optional

All USL clubs that particpate in the MLS led league can also field a team in the upcoming USL academy league that starts in Spring 2021.  Those will be composite teams of each clubs best u15-u19 players.









						Top 94 Domestic Youth Soccer Clubs, 8,000 Players, Join Major League Soccer’s Elite Player Development Platform  | MLSSoccer.com
					

Top 94 Domestic Youth Soccer Clubs Join MLS Competition Platform




					www.mlssoccer.com
				




This is a 8000 player league for players that want the best training, facilities, and competition.


----------



## gkmom

Why no U16?


----------



## Kante

jpeter said:


> All one league:  MLS U15, U17, U19 optional for all other age groups
> 
> Non-MLS all age groups optional
> 
> All USL clubs that particpate in the MLS led league can also field a team in the upcoming USL academy league that starts in Spring 2021.  Those will be composite teams of each clubs best u15-u19 players.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Top 94 Domestic Youth Soccer Clubs, 8,000 Players, Join Major League Soccer’s Elite Player Development Platform  | MLSSoccer.com
> 
> 
> Top 94 Domestic Youth Soccer Clubs Join MLS Competition Platform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mlssoccer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a 8000 player league for players that want the best training, facilities, and competition.


JP, is your understanding that non-MLS clubs can opt-in to play u15, u17 and u19, at their own discretion? (somewhat loaded question... most of the socal clubs listed were only allowed by USSF to field u13 and u14 teams, despite multiple requests to USSF to field older teams)


----------



## SocalWestDad

What are the age groups for the MLS youth league? Are they starting at u12 or are they going to be starting at u15? When does the league start?


----------



## Zvezdas




----------



## Son

MLS teams will have U15, 17 and 19.  The younger teams will be optional for the MLS clubs.


----------



## Kante

Son said:


> MLS teams will have U15, 17 and 19.  The younger teams will be optional for the MLS clubs.


any sense on what the situation is with the non-MLS teams?


----------



## jpeter

Kante said:


> JP, is your understanding that non-MLS clubs can opt-in to play u15, u17 and u19, at their own discretion? (somewhat loaded question... most of the socal clubs listed were only allowed by USSF to field u13 and u14 teams, despite multiple requests to USSF to field older teams)


Yes and the age groups I've heard about so far are:
U13,U14, U15,and U16 for Non-MLS.  Some clubs like Albion, City, TFA will take the option and field U17, U19 teams.

U15, U17,U19 for MLS optional U18 reserve.  

Some MLS clubs may offer U13, U14 but kind of doubt U16.  All this costs so intially may not take some of those options.


----------



## watfly

Not much substance yet.  Who is going to take one for the team and get on the conference call and report back?


----------



## MacDre

gkmom said:


> Why no U16?


After U15, they sign a pro contract, move up to U17 or get cut.  Everyone is not the same age in the pro’s


----------



## Husky13

MacDre said:


> After U15, they sign a pro contract, move up to U17 or get cut.  Everyone is not the same age in the pro’s


I think the point is that kids at 14 and 15 years of age are goijg through huge growth spurts, catching up to and surpassing kids who benefitted from early growth, etc.  A very poor time to whittle the pool.


----------



## Banana Hammock

Where is Rebels Soccer Club (boys)?  I don't see them in the ECNL or MLS.  Do they play some other league?


----------



## MacDre

Husky13 said:


> I think the point is that kids at 14 and 15 years of age are goijg through huge growth spurts, catching up to and surpassing kids who benefitted from early growth, etc.  A very poor time to whittle the pool.


Don’t kill the messenger.  I’m just reporting how it goes at Club Tijuana.  However, I think it’s ridiculous when people push the late bloomer theory because by 14 or 15 it’s kinda obvious who has the athleticism and technical ability.  Are you suggesting that athleticism automatically appears for some around 16 or 17?


----------



## messy

Zvezdas said:


> View attachment 7164View attachment 7164


I'm shocked that SD Surf isn't in here.


----------



## Eagle33

I didn't see new Liverpool on this list or ECNL list.


----------



## Son

messy said:


> I'm shocked that SD Surf isn't in here.



The six So Cal clubs that defected to the ECNL were some of the stronger non MLS DAs.  SD Surf had top ranked boys teams in several age brackets.

Another surprise is  Crossfire.  Crossfire was one of the strongest teams in several age brackets.  There are no teams in the Pacific Northwest outside the three MLS teams (Seattle, Portland, Vancouver).


----------



## Patandpats

I can't imagine the older MLS teams are going to play Murietta Surf, Chula Vista, Santa Barbara SC, etc.  It would be completely pointless unless they had the MLS u17's play the u19 teams of those clubs.


----------



## jpeter

messy said:


> I'm shocked that SD Surf isn't in here.


Part of the reason is they want to WIN championships something they were never able to do in the da boys, same could be said for some of the others that couldn't have or may still but haven't optioned in.  That and the whole economic side of things.


----------



## watfly

Banana Hammock said:


> Where is Rebels Soccer Club (boys)?  I don't see them in the ECNL or MLS.  Do they play some other league?


Still curious myself, based on results they deserve a spot in one of the two.  However, I've heard rumors they're disorganized (which club isnt?), but girls are in ECNL...something isn't adding up for the boys.



messy said:


> I'm shocked that SD Surf isn't in here.


They jumped early to ECNL, I'm sure the girls side had a lot of influence in that regard and my suspicion is they feel they would have more influence in ECNL than MLS.



Eagle33 said:


> I didn't see new Liverpool on this list or ECNL list.


Noticed that too.  So what we were told was either incorrect or it hasn't officially happened.


----------



## Son

Patandpats said:


> I can't imagine the older MLS teams are going to play Murietta Surf, Chula Vista, Santa Barbara SC, etc.  It would be completely pointless unless they had the MLS u17's play the u19 teams of those clubs.



Yes it would be a waste of time for the MLS teams to play some of the teams on that list.

The DA recognized that last year and separated the U19s into a weaker bracket and a stronger bracket.


----------



## jpeter

Patandpats said:


> I can't imagine the older MLS teams are going to play Murietta Surf, Chula Vista, Santa Barbara SC, etc.  It would be completely pointless unless they had the MLS u17's play the u19 teams of those clubs.


Will take some time for things to shake out but those clubs want to play MLS clubs so they will get a chance.


----------



## Husky13

MacDre said:


> Don’t kill the messenger.  I’m just reporting how it goes at Club Tijuana.  However, I think it’s ridiculous when people push the late bloomer theory because by 14 or 15 it’s kinda obvious who has the athleticism and technical ability.  Are you suggesting that athleticism automatically appears for some around 16 or 17?


You start by saying "don't kill the messenger", but then you make clear that this is also your own personal view.  ???

There are NUMEROUS players on the U15 YNT that thrive almost entirely because they hit puberty at age 11 or 12.  A few players who are simply huge and are good at taking up space, but they are expected to be done growing while many others are just hitting growth spurts now.  A few players who have thrived based on speed, but likewise they are done growing and their speed advantage is disappearing because as other kids are growing their strength and stride are increasing.  

I personally grew from 5'7" to 6'3" during my age 15 year, and I don't think that is all that unusual.  My son was barely over 5' last year and is now 5'8" and still has lots of room to grow.  He is 9-10 mos. younger than many of the players on his team (one of the top MLS academies) - having 9-10 mos. left to grow relative to others is a pretty significant growth upside over other players at this age.  

It isn't that "athleticism" magically appears.  Rather, the issue is that many kids look good because they have an early size and/or speed advantage, and when that advantage disappears as other kids grow, then the rankings of players can change pretty dramatically.


----------



## texanincali

watfly said:


> They jumped early to ECNL, I'm sure the girls side had a lot of influence in that regard and my suspicion is they feel they would have more influence in ECNL than MLS.


I think we would be shocked by the number of clubs turning this league down.  If I had to guess, it far outnumbers clubs that the league has turned down.


----------



## Eagle33

Patandpats said:


> I can't imagine the older MLS teams are going to play Murietta Surf, Chula Vista, Santa Barbara SC, etc.  It would be completely pointless unless they had the MLS u17's play the u19 teams of those clubs.


Even then it would be pointless


----------



## watfly

texanincali said:


> I think we would be shocked by the number of clubs turning this league down.  If I had to guess, it far outnumbers clubs that the league has turned down.


Not shocked.  I have no doubt that many teams are joining the MLS league after getting rejected by ECNL.


----------



## Son

If there is limited travel next season, then LAFC and Galaxy will only be challenged the one time or two times they play one another.


----------



## Patandpats

Eagle33 said:


> Even then it would be pointless


Agreed.  Albion 03''s lost to a team of mostly 04's from LAFC 5-0.  If LAFC plays their 04's against them this year then it's just a waste of time. Similar result against Nomads.  

Nobody can state that there is a goal of this league that is in the best interests of the kids from a competition and travel perspective.  By u17 they should have two divisions and let very few, if any, non-MLS clubs in to the top one.  The Albion and City FC's of the world can get their fill of MLS teams in pre-season friendlies.  Taking these boys out of high school competition when most of the non MLS kids won't ever sniff the field in D1 is really a disservice to them in my opinion.  Just like DA, this new league exists for the non-MLS clubs to benefit those in MLS.


----------



## Ozzie

Son said:


> The six So Cal clubs that defected to the ECNL were some of the stronger non MLS DAs.  SD Surf had top ranked boys teams in several age brackets.
> 
> Another surprise is  Crossfire.  Crossfire was one of the strongest teams in several age brackets.  There are no teams in the Pacific Northwest outside the three MLS teams (Seattle, Portland, Vancouver).


Rumor has it that Crossfire was pushed out by Sounders who wanted Seattle to themselves.  Lots of bad blood between the clubs.  It's too bad because Crossfire was very competitive and has a much better resume then many of the other clubs included on this list.


----------



## Eagle33

Patandpats said:


> Agreed.  Albion 03''s lost to a team of mostly 04's from LAFC 5-0.  If LAFC plays their 04's against them this year then it's just a waste of time. Similar result against Nomads.
> 
> Nobody can state that there is a goal of this league that is in the best interests of the kids from a competition and travel perspective.  By u17 they should have two divisions and let very few, if any, non-MLS clubs in to the top one.  The Albion and City FC's of the world can get their fill of MLS teams in pre-season friendlies.  Taking these boys out of high school competition when most of the non MLS kids won't ever sniff the field in D1 is really a disservice to them in my opinion.  Just like DA, this new league exists for the non-MLS clubs to benefit those in MLS.


Well, we don't know yet whether they will not allow HS soccer.


----------



## BIGD

Husky13 said:


> You start by saying "don't kill the messenger", but then you make clear that this is also your own personal view.  ???
> 
> There are NUMEROUS players on the U15 YNT that thrive almost entirely because they hit puberty at age 11 or 12.  A few players who are simply huge and are good at taking up space, but they are expected to be done growing while many others are just hitting growth spurts now.  A few players who have thrived based on speed, but likewise they are done growing and their speed advantage is disappearing because as other kids are growing their strength and stride are increasing.
> 
> I personally grew from 5'7" to 6'3" during my age 15 year, and I don't think that is all that unusual.  My son was barely over 5' last year and is now 5'8" and still has lots of room to grow.  He is 9-10 mos. younger than many of the players on his team (one of the top MLS academies) - having 9-10 mos. left to grow relative to others is a pretty significant growth upside over other players at this age.
> 
> It isn't that "athleticism" magically appears.  Rather, the issue is that many kids look good because they have an early size and/or speed advantage, and when that advantage disappears as other kids grow, then the rankings of players can change pretty dramatically.


I would add that there is plenty of data and stats that prove we are pretty bad at talent identification and predicting career potential at the professional level - across all sports.  You don't have to do much searching to find studies that back that up.  So in general I would say that our talent ID system is broken, and that in particular "bigger faster stronger" plays a huge role in soccer identification in the US.  Hence our inability to compete at the international level.  I saw a U16 ID training camp last year and for the first 15 minutes assumed it was the U19 team I was watching.  With the exception of one player, they all looked much older physically than 16.


----------



## texanincali

watfly said:


> Not shocked.  I have no doubt that many teams are joining the MLS league after getting rejected by ECNL.


I meant it the other way.  I think there are bunches of clubs turning down MLS League to join ECNL.  How can you make a proper decision for your membership to join a league that hasn't announced a structure or many other pertinent pieces of information?


----------



## Kante

jpeter said:


> Yes and the age groups I've heard about so far are:
> U13,U14, U15,and U16 for Non-MLS.  Some clubs like Albion, City, TFA will take the option and field U17, U19 teams.
> 
> U15, U17,U19 for MLS optional U18 reserve.
> 
> Some MLS clubs may offer U13, U14 but kind of doubt U16.  All this costs so intially may not take some of those options.


apologies for pedantic nature of question, but want to be clear. 

in your understanding, former DA non-mls clubs that were only allowed u13 and u14 by USSDA will now be allowed to field u15 and u16 teams - but not u17 or u19 - by the new mls academy league? so for example, chula vista fc will now be able to field teams from u13 thru u16?

great opportunity for those non-mls clubs.


----------



## MacDre

BIGD said:


> I would add that there is plenty of data and stats that prove we are pretty bad at talent identification and predicting career potential at the professional level - across all sports.  You don't have to do much searching to find studies that back that up.  So in general I would say that our talent ID system is broken, and that in particular "bigger faster stronger" plays a huge role in soccer identification in the US.  Hence our inability to compete at the international level.  I saw a U16 ID training camp last year and for the first 15 minutes assumed it was the U19 team I was watching.  With the exception of one player, they all looked much older physically than 16.


I agree with much of what you’re saying, I just don’t subscribe to the late bloomer theory.  Can you name one world class late bloomer in any sport?  To be clear, I’m not talking about talented athletes like Jordan and Brady that “peaked” late but were great athletes before they peaked.


----------



## Kante

MacDre said:


> I agree with much of what you’re saying, I just don’t subscribe to the late bloomer theory.  Can you name one world class late bloomer in any sport?  To be clear, I’m not talking about talented athletes like Jordan and Brady that “peaked” late but were great athletes before they peaked.


Mbappe
Kante


----------



## Patandpats

MacDre said:


> I agree with much of what you’re saying, I just don’t subscribe to the late bloomer theory.  Can you name one world class late bloomer in any sport?  To be clear, I’m not talking about talented athletes like Jordan and Brady that “peaked” late but were great athletes before they peaked.


Jamie Vardy, Miroslav Klose, Orbie Peralta, Luca Toni.  That's four in soccer.  Anthony Davis, Scottie Pippen in basketball come to mind right away, Damian Lillard might be one, Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, Rodman. Tons in basketball.  In baseball Jose Bautista didn't do shit until he was 29, plenty others like him as well as many pitchers who went to D3 or NAIA schools because they didn't develop yet.  Randy Johnson sucked until he was 29.  NFL has Kurt Warner, James Harrison, lots of other undrafted free agents that made it big.

Shit, Drogba only scored three goals at age 24 in France. Chris Wondolowski scored seven times in his first 5 MLS seasons.

Could go on and on.


----------



## Husky13

MacDre said:


> I agree with much of what you’re saying, I just don’t subscribe to the late bloomer theory.  Can you name one world class late bloomer in any sport?  To be clear, I’m not talking about talented athletes like Jordan and Brady that “peaked” late but were great athletes before they peaked.


This almost misses the point.  It is partly a "late bloomer" theory, but it is also in part a "catching up" theory.  Jeez, the number of kids that we watch coaches and scouts salivate over at age 14 or 15 because they are stronger or faster than kids they are playing against, but who don't have the technical skills, decision-making and other skills, is quite high.  But, those deficiencies are hidden for a while because of their early growth advantage.  Meanwhile, a kid who has similar athletic potential but isn't as filled out yet (but will be within a year or two), and also has those other qualities, gets glossed over.  

I often wonder why a scout or coach thinks they are adding any value if all they are doing is spotting kids who filled out early.  A MONKEY could do that.


----------



## MacDre

Husky13 said:


> This almost misses the point.  It is partly a "late bloomer" theory, but it is also in part a "catching up" theory.  Jeez, the number of kids that we watch coaches and scouts salivate over at age 14 or 15 because they are stronger or faster than kids they are playing against, but who don't have the technical skills, decision-making and other skills, is quite high.  But, those deficiencies are hidden for a while because of their early growth advantage.  Meanwhile, a kid who has similar athletic potential but isn't as filled out yet (but will be within a year or two), and also has those other qualities, gets glossed over.
> 
> I often wonder why a scout or coach thinks they are adding any value if all they are doing is spotting kids who filled out early.  A MONKEY could do that.


I agree.  My kid and I would also fit your description of late bloomers. I think all the players mentioned above were all talented athletes when they were young.  Maybe they hadn’t peaked but they were still in the top 10% of all players when young.
If so many late bloomers are being overlooked, why aren’t any great players coming from college programs?


----------



## Husky13

MacDre said:


> I agree.  My kid and I would also fit your description of late bloomers. I think all the players mentioned above were all talented athletes when they were young.  Maybe they hadn’t peaked but they were still in the top 10% of all players when young.
> If so many late bloomers are being overlooked, why aren’t any great players coming from college programs?


I believe the topic was whether there is a benefit in a separate U16 age group.  So, we are talking about 14 and 15 year old kids.  There is a bit of a difference between that and kids who are 20+ years old in college.  Surely you aren't equating the two when it comes to physical development?  I would argue that physically developing at 15 isn't "late", so the term "late bloomer" isn't accurate.  

And, there are all sorts of reasons why there aren't a high volume of great players coming out of college programs.  Many will point to the lack of development in college because of the short season and terrible schedule (2 games/week).  College soccer also reminds me a lot of high school soccer in terms of the style of play that college coaches seem to go for.


----------



## texanincali

Husky13 said:


> Jeez, the number of kids that we watch coaches and scouts salivate over at age 14 or 15 because they are stronger or faster than kids they are playing against, but who don't have the technical skills, decision-making and other skills, is quite high.


This is a scouting/coaching issue, not an issue with who develops when.  If a scout or coach can’t see a kid is never going to be a good player when others catch up physically, or a smaller kid is going to be a good player when he catches up physically, they suck.  Having a U16 age group isn’t going to solve that.  Until scouts and coaches know what they are looking at it will be status quo.


----------



## Husky13

texanincali said:


> This is a scouting/coaching issue, not an issue with who develops when.  If a scout or coach can’t see a kid is never going to be a good player when others catch up physically, or a smaller kid is going to be a good player when he catches up physically, they suck.  Having a U16 age group isn’t going to solve that.  Until scouts and coaches know what they are looking at it will be status quo.


I agree that this is primarily a scouting/coaching issue, but a separate U16 age group can help mitigate that by keeping kids who have recently grown and "caught up" physically (or are still in the process of doing so) in the mix and in sight of these scouts and coaches who cannot otherwise seem to project ahead and can only see what is right in front of them.


----------



## MacDre

Husky13 said:


> I believe the topic was whether there is a benefit in a separate U16 age group.  So, we are talking about 14 and 15 year old kids.  There is a bit of a difference between that and kids who are 20+ years old in college.  Surely you aren't equating the two when it comes to physical development?  I would argue that physically developing at 15 isn't "late", so the term "late bloomer" isn't accurate.
> 
> And, there are all sorts of reasons why there aren't a high volume of great players coming out of college programs.  Many will point to the lack of development in college because of the short season and terrible schedule (2 games/week).  College soccer also reminds me a lot of high school soccer in terms of the style of play that college coaches seem to go for.


No, I’m saying that if so many talented undersized kids are being overlooked at 14 and 15, then it would seem likely that by time they are in college they would be physically mature and world class but it’s not happening.

I agree that college soccer isn’t good for development.  But the problem with development starts before college.


----------



## MacDre

P


Husky13 said:


> I agree that this is primarily a scouting/coaching issue, but a separate U16 age group can help mitigate that by keeping kids who have recently grown and "caught up" physically (or are still in the process of doing so) in the mix and in sight of these scouts and coaches who cannot otherwise seem to project ahead and can only see what is right in front of them.


Pressure makes diamonds.  Nowhere else in the world are boys being coddled and given false hope.  In Mexico only the top 10% of the 2008 birth year will enter academy next fall.  At 12 the funnel starts to narrow and I think this is best.  Others can play for fun.


----------



## texanincali

Husky13 said:


> I agree that this is primarily a scouting/coaching issue, but a separate U16 age group can help mitigate that by keeping kids who have recently grown and "caught up" physically (or are still in the process of doing so) in the mix and in sight of these scouts and coaches who cannot otherwise seem to project ahead and can only see what is right in front of them.


I get what you are saying, but it really should be a non issue.  My biggest issue with a stand alone U16 team is I think it would allow clubs to play U16 players in their own age group when they should be playing in the U17 age group.  You are taking a pool of 25 players and creating one that’s 50 players.  That waters it down.  

If a U16 kid can’t make a U17 team, I doubt he is going to end up being a superstar.  That said, there are examples of kids that drastically improved after U15.  I would rather a coach be able to identify a kid or a couple of kids that have potential, let them train with the U17 team and play in a local league at the weekend.  I would much rather have that than create another age group for the 2/3 late developers per team that could exist.


----------



## vegasguy

MacDre said:


> I agree with much of what you’re saying, I just don’t subscribe to the late bloomer theory.  Can you name one world class late bloomer in any sport?  To be clear, I’m not talking about talented athletes like Jordan and Brady that “peaked” late but were great athletes before they peaked.


Scottie Pippen and the Worm


----------



## vegasguy

MacDre said:


> P
> 
> Pressure makes diamonds.  Nowhere else in the world are boys being coddled and given false hope.  In Mexico only the top 10% of the 2008 birth year will enter academy next fall.  At 12 the funnel starts to narrow and I think this is best.  Others can play for fun.


But they come here and lose to our MLS teams and non-MLS teams.  By the numbering on their jerseys they are not sending c teams.  Mx academies are not any better than MLS academies.


----------



## MacDre

vegasguy said:


> But they come here and lose to our MLS teams and non-MLS teams.  By the numbering on their jerseys they are not sending c teams.  Mx academies are not any better than MLS academies.


Coach, sometimes the teams lose because the priority is development and not just winning another trophy.  How often does a MLS team beat a Liga MX team?  








						Garber: Liga MX better than MLS for now
					

Commissioner Don Garber said that Major League Soccer can be one of the best leagues in the world, but still lags behind Liga MX.




					www.espn.com


----------



## WuTang

MacDre said:


> P
> 
> Pressure makes diamonds.  Nowhere else in the world are boys being coddled and given false hope.  In Mexico only the top 10% of the 2008 birth year will enter academy next fall.  At 12 the funnel starts to narrow and I think this is best.  Others can play for fun.


I am assuming you are saying 10% is a good number of kids who should be academy.
Well, if all 95 clubs have an 08 team next year, that would be a little over 1600 08’s in academy. I know that is way less then 10% of all American 08 soccer players. So, if anything the US even narrows fewer kids down.


----------



## Husky13

texanincali said:


> I get what you are saying, but it really should be a non issue.  My biggest issue with a stand alone U16 team is I think it would allow clubs to play U16 players in their own age group when they should be playing in the U17 age group.  You are taking a pool of 25 players and creating one that’s 50 players.  That waters it down.
> 
> If a U16 kid can’t make a U17 team, I doubt he is going to end up being a superstar.  That said, there are examples of kids that drastically improved after U15.  I would rather a coach be able to identify a kid or a couple of kids that have potential, let them train with the U17 team and play in a local league at the weekend.  I would much rather have that than create another age group for the 2/3 late developers per team that could exist.


First of all, 2-3 late bloomers who turn into something off a U16 team would be a great success ….

Personally, I see pros and cons to a 2-year, U17 age group for my own (05) son.  He will very likely make the U17 squad, but do I think that is best for his development?  If the emphasis on our teams was true possession/quick passing/decision-making, then playing at U17 can help.  Of my own son's strengths and weaknesses, quick passing/decision-making are strengths and he has done well playing up a year in friendlies already.  But, how many truly creative players does the U.S. develop?  The issue I see with the two year age group at this U17 level is that there are HUGE physical differences between kids who have already sprouted/filled out and kids who are just starting that process.  You see more emphasis on just getting rid of the ball quickly before you get squashed.  Playing on age, the game has more dimensions - the element of creative 1v1 dribbling in addition to passing becomes more realistic.  We should want to keep developing that quality.  We aren't developing many of those types of players in the U.S.


----------



## MacDre

WuTang said:


> I am assuming you are saying 10% is a good number of kids who should be academy.
> Well, if all 95 clubs have an 08 team next year, that would be a little over 1600 08’s in academy. I know that is way less then 10% of all American 08 soccer players. So, if anything the US even narrows fewer kids down.


I was just approximating.  The numbers may be lower than 10%.  I have a 2007 girl that has played on a 2008 boys team since she was 5.  Most of the boys she grew up playing with did not get selected for academy.   Their soccer career is over.  And for those that like rooting for the underdogs, 2 of my favorite 2008’s were selected-one is the smallest kid in Baja California and the other is an overweight kid that’s very entertaining.  I think the selection process was fair but I’m sure 1 or 2 kids were overlooked.


----------



## vegasguy

MacDre said:


> Coach, sometimes the teams lose because the priority is development and not just winning another trophy.  How often does a MLS team beat a Liga MX team?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Garber: Liga MX better than MLS for now
> 
> 
> Commissioner Don Garber said that Major League Soccer can be one of the best leagues in the world, but still lags behind Liga MX.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.espn.com


You know that article is from 2016.  In the last 3years US has sent more under 20s to UK than MX.  Seattle has developed Danny Leyva and you once said Xolos come here to win but you could not prove it.  In terms of development the two countries are closer than you think.


----------



## MacDre

vegasguy said:


> You know that article is from 2016.  In the last 3years US has sent more under 20s to UK than MX.  Seattle has developed Danny Leyva and you once said Xolos come here to win but you could not prove it.  In terms of development the two countries are closer than you think.


I think the US is at least 20 years behind Mexico.  Mexico has a soccer culture and the US doesn’t.  The US is making progress but has a long way to go.  I think if MLS and Liga MX combined North America would have the best league in the world though.


----------



## messy

MacDre said:


> I think the US is at least 20 years behind Mexico.  Mexico has a soccer culture and the US doesn’t.  The US is making progress but has a long way to go.  I think if MLS and Liga MX combined North America would have the best league in the world though.


No you don't really think that. Is there one player in either league who could start on Man City or Liverpool or Barca or Athletico, etc etc?


----------



## MacDre

messy said:


> No you don't really think that. Is there one player in either league who could start on Man City or Liverpool or Barca or Athletico, etc etc?


You misunderstand me.  I’m saying a huge part of the development problem in the US is the lack of soccer culture.
The Rayados played well against Liverpool.









						Monterrey dreaming of monumental Liverpool upset
					

Monterrey will be huge underdogs when they take on Liverpool at the Club World Cup on Wednesday. There is, however, hope for Antonio Mohamed's team.



					www.google.com


----------



## messy

MacDre said:


> You misunderstand me.  I’m saying a huge part of the development problem in the US is the lack of soccer culture.
> The Rayados played well against Liverpool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monterrey dreaming of monumental Liverpool upset
> 
> 
> Monterrey will be huge underdogs when they take on Liverpool at the Club World Cup on Wednesday. There is, however, hope for Antonio Mohamed's team.
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


I agree about our culture...but combining  the MLS and Liga MX personnel into one league...maybe the league would fit somewhere between the Portuguese league and the Belgian league?


----------



## MacDre

messy said:


> I agree about our culture...but combining  the MLS and Liga MX personnel into one league...maybe the league would fit somewhere between the Portuguese league and the Belgian league?


Not merely combining personnel but pooling resources to create a superior environment to Europe.  Mexico has the culture and the know how and the US has the resources.  We would produce more and better players.  We could also compete financially with the big European clubs for the best players in the world.


----------



## vegasguy

I agree with you on culture but that has always been a given.   But it is growing in places like Atlanta, Seattle, Portland and Socal very fast.  

20yrs behind in development is way dramatic and I think our youth development especially Sounders and FCDallas are producing players who are getting opportunities abroad at 18.  Heck Jesse Gonzales made his one time switch back to USA and youth like Leyva chose Stars and Stripes although Leyva can still make a one time switch but I do not think he will in the long run.

I think LigaMX us run poorly and could use the structure of the MLS.  They already stopped pro-rel which I hate but seems an obvious move to begin the first 3 country league.  Next step is the improvement of pay structure on both sides and FMF USSoccer changing the roster structures.


----------



## texanincali

Husky13 said:


> First of all, 2-3 late bloomers who turn into something off a U16 team would be a great success ….
> 
> Personally, I see pros and cons to a 2-year, U17 age group for my own (05) son.  He will very likely make the U17 squad, but do I think that is best for his development?  If the emphasis on our teams was true possession/quick passing/decision-making, then playing at U17 can help.  Of my own son's strengths and weaknesses, quick passing/decision-making are strengths and he has done well playing up a year in friendlies already.  But, how many truly creative players does the U.S. develop?  The issue I see with the two year age group at this U17 level is that there are HUGE physical differences between kids who have already sprouted/filled out and kids who are just starting that process.  You see more emphasis on just getting rid of the ball quickly before you get squashed.  Playing on age, the game has more dimensions - the element of creative 1v1 dribbling in addition to passing becomes more realistic.  We should want to keep developing that quality.  We aren't developing many of those types of players in the U.S.


All fair points.  However, there are HUGE physical differences in every age group starting at U11 and going up to professionals.

I really do understand your point, but I just don’t think we are missing out on quality professional players because of a dual age group.  If kids are changing the way they play because of the size of opponents, their game wasn’t top class to begin with.  The issue here is the conflicting end game of development.  I will concede to you that it is probably better for a kid that wants to earn a scholarship to play his own age group and be one of the better players.  It is not the way to develop top class professional players that will help build MLS and players to be sold to Europe to build our USMNT.


----------



## MacDre

vegasguy said:


> I agree with you on culture but that has always been a given.   But it is growing in places like Atlanta, Seattle, Portland and Socal very fast.
> 
> 20yrs behind in development is way dramatic and I think our youth development especially Sounders and FCDallas are producing players who are getting opportunities abroad at 18.  Heck Jesse Gonzales made his one time switch back to USA and youth like Leyva chose Stars and Stripes although Leyva can still make a one time switch but I do not think he will in the long run.
> 
> I think LigaMX us run poorly and could use the structure of the MLS.  They already stopped pro-rel which I hate but seems an obvious move to begin the first 3 country league.  Next step is the improvement of pay structure on both sides and FMF USSoccer changing the roster structures.


It’s gonna be a good day Coach because it’s early in the morning and I agree with you.

In terms of development, I think it’ll be at least 20 years before environments like FCD and Sounders are commonplace though.


----------



## MacDre

Husky13 said:


> First of all, 2-3 late bloomers who turn into something off a U16 team would be a great success ….
> 
> Personally, I see pros and cons to a 2-year, U17 age group for my own (05) son.  He will very likely make the U17 squad, but do I think that is best for his development?  If the emphasis on our teams was true possession/quick passing/decision-making, then playing at U17 can help.  Of my own son's strengths and weaknesses, quick passing/decision-making are strengths and he has done well playing up a year in friendlies already.  But, how many truly creative players does the U.S. develop?  The issue I see with the two year age group at this U17 level is that there are HUGE physical differences between kids who have already sprouted/filled out and kids who are just starting that process.  You see more emphasis on just getting rid of the ball quickly before you get squashed.  Playing on age, the game has more dimensions - the element of creative 1v1 dribbling in addition to passing becomes more realistic.  We should want to keep developing that quality.  We aren't developing many of those types of players in the U.S.


I agree with you.  I understand the problem.  I have even felt at times the strategy to contain my kid was to put her on her ass.  Clean her clock so to speak.  I was just fortunate for my kid to have the option of playing in Mexico.

My daughter is 12 and on the U15 team.  They practice, travel, and play with the U17’s and the Xolo’s first team.  My kid hates playing with kids her age because the game is too slow and simple.  She holds her own against the bigger girls but she’s slower and weaker which is forcing her to develop creative solutions quickly under immense pressure.  She’s also getting more time to develop at center mid because she’s too damn slow to be a winger with the older girls.  I was concerned that she was going to get hurt but she’s already moving up on the roster at least she was before Covid.

I know it’s not realistic for all but I think your kid needs another environment. Keeping him in his comfort zone is going to kill his career because he’s not developing the “grit” to be successful at the highest levels. I think I recall reading an article about the problems Griezmann’s dad had finding a suitable environment for his undersized player. 
Do you have any other development options?


----------



## Husky13

texanincali said:


> All fair points.  However, there are HUGE physical differences in every age group starting at U11 and going up to professionals.
> 
> I really do understand your point, but I just don’t think we are missing out on quality professional players because of a dual age group.  If kids are changing the way they play because of the size of opponents, their game wasn’t top class to begin with.  The issue here is the conflicting end game of development.  I will concede to you that it is probably better for a kid that wants to earn a scholarship to play his own age group and be one of the better players.  It is not the way to develop top class professional players that will help build MLS and players to be sold to Europe to build our USMNT.


I'll boil it down to this:  Many, many people complain that the U.S. keeps producing big/fast/strong athlete-types, but our best club teams and national teams still cannot compete and are left chasing the ball all game against top sides from Europe.  While I hear the occasional argument that "other countries don't have basketball and football to suck away the best athletes", in general I don't hear (nor do I feel myself) that our problem is a lack of athleticism.  Rather, we don't seem to produce players that keep their opponents off balance (defenders are forced to give creative dribblers a few feet of space so they don't get beat), ability to keep possession in tighter spaces in the attacking third, and break down opposing defenses with creative dribbling and passing.

Why don't we produce players with these qualities?  I am not about to claim that the absence of a U16 single age group is the root cause!  But, our funnel favors players who are physically advanced earlier than others - because of how U.S. coaches look at things, those earlier physically developed players are better able to "survive" against players that are a year older at an age where a year can make a supersized difference.  What is one thing that can help mitigate against this?  A single-year age group that changes the focus from having grown enough early on to physically match up (which is a short-term factor) to a much wider variety of factors.


----------



## jayjay

isn't this the Boys DA thread ?  Maybe now MLS?  Newsflash....Girls development is way different than Boys development.


----------



## Husky13

MacDre said:


> I agree with you.  I understand the problem.  I have even felt at times the strategy to contain my kid was to put her on her ass.  Clean her clock so to speak.  I was just fortunate for my kid to have the option of playing in Mexico.
> 
> My daughter is 12 and on the U15 team.  They practice, travel, and play with the U17’s and the Xolo’s first team.  My kid hates playing with kids her age because the game is too slow and simple.  She holds her own against the bigger girls but she’s slower and weaker which is forcing her to develop creative solutions quickly under immense pressure.  She’s also getting more time to develop at center mid because she’s too damn slow to be a winger with the older girls.  I was concerned that she was going to get hurt but she’s already moving up on the roster at least she was before Covid.
> 
> I know it’s not realistic for all but I think your kid needs another environment. Keeping him in his comfort zone is going to kill his career because he’s not developing the “grit” to be successful at the highest levels. I think I recall reading an article about the problems Griezmann’s dad had finding a suitable environment for his undersized player.
> Do you have any other development options?


I am actually not taking this view about a U16 age group solely out of personal interest.  As I said, there are pros and cons for my own kid in playing U17.  My biggest issue with the playing environment - not at our club but in the U.S. in general - is that coaches/scouts seem to gravitate towards kids who can bully past (or through) others because they grew earlier.  We have a few of those players at our club (very highly regarded) who have or are flattening out now because their physical growth has stopped and other players (with other qualities) are catching up to them physically.

Because my kid didn't fit the mold of the favored (older, bigger) players at his club coming in, he had to swim against the tide (so to speak) - this has helped develop grit and forced him to overcome obstacles.  So, in that sense, the environment has been very good for him.  This past year, he also grew more than 6 inches, and now coaches started seeing his other qualities because increased size made it easier to display those.  (He is still 10 months behind in overall physical growth, so until kids stop growing at age 17 or so, he won't completely catch up.)  My beef is that a great coach/scout should be able to see those qualities and project ahead, it shouldn't be "wow, this player looks better than I thought" (because he predictably grew, because …. duh …. he was younger than other kids).


----------



## MacDre

jayjay said:


> isn't this the Boys DA thread ?  Maybe now MLS?  Newsflash....Girls development is way different than Boys development.


I get that girls are different from boys-patna, you’re merely stating the obvious.  I stated earlier my girl has played with 2008 boys in Mexico since she was 5.  2008 boys are entering the academy in Mexico.  All of my experience is with boys soccer.  My daughter has only played with girls for approximately 3 months.  Moreover, I’ve observed boys academy teams train daily for the past 7 years at Club Tijuana so I’m actually more familiar with boys than girls.


----------



## MacDre

Husky13 said:


> I am actually not taking this view about a U16 age group solely out of personal interest.  As I said, there are pros and cons for my own kid in playing U17.  My biggest issue with the playing environment - not at our club but in the U.S. in general - is that coaches/scouts seem to gravitate towards kids who can bully past (or through) others because they grew earlier.  We have a few of those players at our club (very highly regarded) who have or are flattening out now because their physical growth has stopped and other players (with other qualities) are catching up to them physically.
> 
> Because my kid didn't fit the mold of the favored (older, bigger) players at his club coming in, he had to swim against the tide (so to speak) - this has helped develop grit and forced him to overcome obstacles.  So, in that sense, the environment has been very good for him.  This past year, he also grew more than 6 inches, and now coaches started seeing his other qualities because increased size made it easier to display those.  (He is still 10 months behind in overall physical growth, so until kids stop growing at age 17 or so, he won't completely catch up.)  My beef is that a great coach/scout should be able to see those qualities and project ahead, it shouldn't be "wow, this player looks better than I thought" (because he predictably grew, because …. duh …. he was younger than other kids).


I feel your pain brotha.  I have an undersized kid with a December birthday.


----------



## SocalWestDad

Some teams in ECNL have a team in the new MLS youth league. How is that possible? Can a non-mls team and a MLS academy team field both an ecnl team and a team in the MLS youth league?


----------



## Son

Husky13 said:


> I am actually not taking this view about a U16 age group solely out of personal interest.  As I said, there are pros and cons for my own kid in playing U17.  My biggest issue with the playing environment - not at our club but in the U.S. in general - is that coaches/scouts seem to gravitate towards kids who can bully past (or through) others because they grew earlier.  We have a few of those players at our club (very highly regarded) who have or are flattening out now because their physical growth has stopped and other players (with other qualities) are catching up to them physically.
> 
> Because my kid didn't fit the mold of the favored (older, bigger) players at his club coming in, he had to swim against the tide (so to speak) - this has helped develop grit and forced him to overcome obstacles.  So, in that sense, the environment has been very good for him.  This past year, he also grew more than 6 inches, and now coaches started seeing his other qualities because increased size made it easier to display those.  (He is still 10 months behind in overall physical growth, so until kids stop growing at age 17 or so, he won't completely catch up.)  My beef is that a great coach/scout should be able to see those qualities and project ahead, it shouldn't be "wow, this player looks better than I thought" (because he predictably grew, because …. duh …. he was younger than other kids).


US Soccer was trying to take early physical growth into consideration.  At the three U14 regional camps last year, each kid was measured for peak height velocity to see where they were in terms of physical growth.  When the kids went back to their teams, the teams administered the same peak height velocity testing.  

I am not sure what US Soccer or the teams did with that data.  Presumably they took into consideration boys who may not have hit their growth spurts yet.  But looking at the selections for the next U14 camps and then the single U15 camp before the shutdown, it was clear the US YNT still favored more mature and physically dominant kids.


----------



## WuTang

SocalWestDad said:


> Some teams in ECNL have a team in the new MLS youth league. How is that possible? Can a non-mls team and a MLS academy team field both an ecnl team and a team in the MLS youth league?


This was done before by some of the larger clubs. Usually, the first team is in the Academy and the 2nd team is in the ECNL. At our club that is the plan.


----------



## Kante

Son said:


> US Soccer was trying to take early physical growth into consideration.  At the three U14 regional camps last year, each kid was measured for peak height velocity to see where they were in terms of physical growth.  When the kids went back to their teams, the teams administered the same peak height velocity testing.
> 
> I am not sure what US Soccer or the teams did with that data.  Presumably they took into consideration boys who may not have hit their growth spurts yet.  But looking at the selections for the next U14 camps and then the single U15 camp before the shutdown, it was clear the US YNT still favored more mature and physically dominant kids.


the challenge is that US Soccer was taking the data in as a method to discount players who had early developer advantages, but didn't have a plan for how to systematically ID and support promising late dob/late developers at scale.

France has probably been the NT leader in supporting late developers in recent years. Mbappe has a 12/20 dob, for example.

And some teams in the EPL were doing things to ID and support late developers. However, in general, the whole system globally is skewed towards early dob/early developers. Just human nature to favor those players/students who respond the best early on to lessons.

But there's also a huge, obvious inefficiency/arbitrage oppty to be exploited by a country with a pop the size of the US.

This is the piece that's crazy making. The USMNT, by insisting on playing by the same rules/competing on the same terms as every other country, is just falling behind less slowly. If we want to get ahead, then we have to compete differently, leverage our unique strengths and not just copy what country "x" has done.

One of the biggest accomplishments, imo, of the USSDA, was the significant increase in Latino players in the upper ranks of the top DA teams. (But, with USSDA going away, that progress is being put at risk.)

The second biggest oppty next up is supporting the vast number of promising late dob/late developers to continue playing at high levels thru u17/u18.

How this is done? Not sure, but the MLS league and the ECNL, both look like - right now - big steps backward.


----------



## Cibo

WuTang said:


> This was done before by some of the larger clubs. Usually, the first team is in the Academy and the 2nd team is in the ECNL. At our club that is the plan.


I agree, but there hasn't been any announcements from clubs like FC Dallas and De Anza Force. Like you I assume they would put their first team in MLS and second team in ECNL. FC Dallas as an MLS Club is a no brainer but how does a club like De Anza go back and tell ECNL the first team will be MLS and will ECNL kick them out again?


----------



## MacDre

Son said:


> US Soccer was trying to take early physical growth into consideration.  At the three U14 regional camps last year, each kid was measured for peak height velocity to see where they were in terms of physical growth.  When the kids went back to their teams, the teams administered the same peak height velocity testing.
> 
> I am not sure what US Soccer or the teams did with that data.  Presumably they took into consideration boys who may not have hit their growth spurts yet.  But looking at the selections for the next U14 camps and then the single U15 camp before the shutdown, it was clear the US YNT still favored more mature and physically dominant kids.


Based on my limited personal experience, I’m not sure this is all US Soccer’s fault.  I’m not sure if the Quakes academy is indicative of a typical development academy in the US, but if it is, the problem is skill and game IQ.  The boys at the Quakes are substantially behind the boys at Xolo’s technically.


----------



## vegasguy

@MacDre   So you are saying Weston McKinnie, Danny Leyva, Dante Sealy, and Chris Richards are 20yrs behind LigaMX?   You have a daughter and not a son so I am assure you are not aware of the men players moving from MLS to Bundesliga and other leagues at a young age before they sign the homegrown or pro contract.   MLS to Europe is a greater pipeline right now.

Quakes are not typical or the pinnacle of MLS development.

Freaking brothers every way like M.J.
I can't believe, today was a good day


----------



## MacDre

vegasguy said:


> @MacDre   So you are saying Weston McKinnie, Danny Leyva, Dante Sealy, and Chris Richards are 20yrs behind LigaMX?   You have a daughter and not a son so I am assure you are not aware of the men players moving from MLS to Bundesliga and other leagues at a young age before they sign the homegrown or pro contract.   MLS to Europe is a greater pipeline right now.
> 
> Quakes are not typical or the pinnacle of MLS development.
> 
> Freaking brothers every way like M.J.
> I can't believe, today was a good day


No, I’m saying that it’ll take 20 years or more until there is a FCD type academy in Vegas and similar ignored areas.  It’s also going to take some time for weaker programs like the Quakes to come up to speed.

So is the Quakes academy middle of the road or bottom of the barrel?  They looked really bad!


----------



## Son

Did anyone listen in on the conference call?

They are still hammering out the details, but it appears MLS teams only have to carry U15 and U17 teams.  U19 might be optional even for the MLS teams.  That is not ideal.  If that is the case, players will have to find different clubs to play for during their HS senior year.


----------



## MacDre

Son said:


> Did anyone listen in on the conference call?
> 
> They are still hammering out the details, but it appears MLS teams only have to carry U15 and U17 teams.  U19 might be optional even for the MLS teams.  That is not ideal.  If that is the case, players will have to find different clubs to play for during their HS senior year.


Maybe or Maybe not.  If a kid signs a pro contract by 16, it’s all good.  However, I do see how it could be problematic for a kid that gets cut.


----------



## watfly

Husky13 said:


> I'll boil it down to this:  Many, many people complain that the U.S. keeps producing big/fast/strong athlete-types, but our best club teams and national teams still cannot compete and are left chasing the ball all game against top sides from Europe.  While I hear the occasional argument that "other countries don't have basketball and football to suck away the best athletes", in general I don't hear (nor do I feel myself) that our problem is a lack of athleticism.  Rather, we don't seem to produce players that keep their opponents off balance (defenders are forced to give creative dribblers a few feet of space so they don't get beat), ability to keep possession in tighter spaces in the attacking third, and break down opposing defenses with creative dribbling and passing.


I agree there is no shortgage of great atheletes playing in the US.  We have more youth playing soccer than any other nation, the only other nation remotely close is Germany I believe.  I'm going to divert a little bit from your opinion, but yes we focus too much on size and raw athleticism.  I also believe coaches in the US favors the 1v1 player and creative dribbler too much, at the expense of other skills.  What US coaches don't seem to understand is that the ball can travel much faster than one can run and that one can dribble.  Soccer is primarily a decision making sport (aka Soccer IQ) and speed of play is critical.  We're very poor at decision making, particularly at speed.  Its a tremendous skill to be a creative dribbler but it has to be combined with Soccer IQ other wise you're just slowing down the game.  It seems we make our decisions after we receive the ball and were not proactive, ie we lack field vison and awareness, or the technicall term is "scanning".








						'Football vision' as important as ball skills, experts reveal: Young footballers would benefit from more time learning to read the field -- and less on ball skills
					

Learning to read the game is as important to young footballers as kicking a ball. A new study, which highlighted Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard as stars who incorporated the technique into their gameplay, calls on coaches to spend more time training young players to scan the field and less on...



					www.sciencedaily.com
				




I also believe we've distorted what it means to be a great 1v1 player.  Its now been boiled down to someone that can beat someone on the dribble...actually its evolved into someone that can sometimes win a 1v2, 1v3, 1v4.  In my mind, a 1v1 player is one that can defend the dribble, win 50/50 or less balls, can out position or outsmart their opponent to receive the ball, etc.  These "new age" 1v1 players that take on two or more players are not only slowing the game down but they are also not taking advantage of their teams numerical advantage that has been created.  That's something else I don't see very often is coaches teaching the importance of gaining a numerical advantage where play is occuring.  Coaching of movement off the ball is improving but we still have a lot of room to improve.

I guess my conclusion is that coaches don't seem to favor Soccer IQ, whereas I don't think Soccer IQ can be overrated.  Maybe coaches think they can teach Soccer IQ to the physically dominant players...I just havent seen much of that occuring.


----------



## Kante

Son said:


> Did anyone listen in on the conference call?
> 
> They are still hammering out the details, but it appears MLS teams only have to carry U15 and U17 teams.  U19 might be optional even for the MLS teams.  That is not ideal.  If that is the case, players will have to find different clubs to play for during their HS senior year.


for the non-mls clubs, sounds like many will be still stuck at u13/u14. likely not Barca or TFA, maybe not LAUFA, but the rest. 

for those u13/u14 non-MLS clubs, new MLS league seems like window dressing. better, more honest option for those clubs' families would have been to play in leagues where there would be pro/rel now, which is what their option will be at u15.


----------



## Son

Kante said:


> for the non-mls clubs, sounds like many will be still stuck at u13/u14. likely not Barca or TFA, maybe not LAUFA, but the rest.
> 
> for those u13/u14 non-MLS clubs, new MLS league seems like window dressing. better, more honest option for those clubs' families would have been to play in leagues where there would be pro/rel now, which is what their option will be at u15.


Sounds like the same deal as the old USSDA.


----------



## Son

MacDre said:


> Maybe or Maybe not.  If a kid signs a pro contract by 16, it’s all good.  However, I do see how it could be problematic for a kid that gets cut.



Yeah that would be fantastic if a kid can sign a MLS homegrown contract or play in Europe by 16.  There are only a small handful of those though.


----------



## MacDre

watfly said:


> I agree there is no shortgage of great atheletes playing in the US.  We have more youth playing soccer than any other nation, the only other nation remotely close is Germany I believe.  I'm going to divert a little bit from your opinion, but yes we focus too much on size and raw athleticism.  I also believe coaches in the US favors the 1v1 player and creative dribbler too much, at the expense of other skills.  What US coaches don't seem to understand is that the ball can travel much faster than one can run and that one can dribble.  Soccer is primarily a decision making sport (aka Soccer IQ) and speed of play is critical.  We're very poor at decision making, particularly at speed.  Its a tremendous skill to be a creative dribbler but it has to be combined with Soccer IQ other wise you're just slowing down the game.  It seems we make our decisions after we receive the ball and were not proactive, ie we lack field vison and awareness, or the technicall term is "scanning".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Football vision' as important as ball skills, experts reveal: Young footballers would benefit from more time learning to read the field -- and less on ball skills
> 
> 
> Learning to read the game is as important to young footballers as kicking a ball. A new study, which highlighted Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard as stars who incorporated the technique into their gameplay, calls on coaches to spend more time training young players to scan the field and less on...
> 
> 
> 
> www.sciencedaily.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also believe we've distorted what it means to be a great 1v1 player.  Its now been boiled down to someone that can beat someone on the dribble...actually its evolved into someone that can sometimes win a 1v2, 1v3, 1v4.  In my mind, a 1v1 player is one that can defend the dribble, win 50/50 or less balls, can out position or outsmart their opponent to receive the ball, etc.  These "new age" 1v1 players that take on two or more players are not only slowing the game down but they are also not taking advantage of their teams numerical advantage that has been created.  That's something else I don't see very often is coaches teaching the importance of gaining a numerical advantage where play is occuring.  Coaching of movement off the ball is improving but we still have a lot of room to improve.
> 
> I guess my conclusion is that coaches don't seem to favor Soccer IQ, whereas I don't think Soccer IQ can be overrated.  Maybe coaches think they can teach Soccer IQ to the physically dominant players...I just havent seen much of that occuring.


I 100% agree with your assessment but my experience is limited to the Quakes academy. @vegasguy seems to think the Quakes aren’t a top club and the US soccer landscape is full of great talent going to Germany for a promising future.  How prevalent is this lack of soccer IQ that you and I speak of in the US soccer landscape?


----------



## watfly

MacDre said:


> I 100% agree with your assessment but my experience is limited to the Quakes academy. @vegasguy seems to think the Quakes aren’t a top club and the US soccer landscape is full of great talent going to Germany for a promising future.  How prevalent is this lack of soccer IQ that you and I speak of in the US soccer landscape?


This is what someone said about the U17 women's performance at the 2018 World Cup and the author seems to apply to all the YNT's.  Whether the author was applying it to the boys IDK, but based on what I have seen it does apply.

_"It does seem apparent that YNT coaches have emphasized finding players who are quick, have good feet, and look first to attack 1v1—and that these selectors have cared less about on a player’s awareness, off-ball movement, or willingness to pass cleanly into pressure and receive and return cleanly under pressure. And it also seems apparent that the YNT coaching staff has struggled mightily to fit the players they do find into a coherent, mutually supportive tactical structure.

The result? Failure. Repeated, consistent, failure."_









						Why it matters that the U17 women’s national team lost again
					

This is just the latest in a string of failures by US Soccer’s youth program.




					www.starsandstripesfc.com


----------



## whatithink

Kante said:


> The second biggest oppty next up is supporting the vast number of promising late dob/late developers to continue playing at high levels thru u17/u18.
> 
> How this is done? Not sure, but the MLS league and the ECNL, both look like - right now - big steps backward.


IMO, you change the age grouping back to the pre-calendar year one. You have the Aug-Jul date range with the Aug-Dec playing with the Jan-Jul. Generally, they are then same grade & peer group, which is positive. The Jan-Jul kids are being challenged vs older kids - which has always helped when being selected based on the FIFA rule (calendar) and the Aug-Dec kids who are late developers have a shot. Today the top teams are dominated with Jan-Jul birth dates. 

There was a study I read, and this was youth sports, not just soccer, and it had something like 75% or more of elite players in youth sports were Jan-Jun and only 25% or less Jul-Dec. There was an extended finding that something like 30% of the Jan-Jun played elite after while 80% of the Jul-Dec did. Basically, early developers always get the nod. Big, strong, fast & athletic always trumps technique, brains etc. in a push - its like buying IBM back in the day from a coach perspective. The clubs & coaches will never change this.


----------



## whatithink

watfly said:


> I guess my conclusion is that coaches don't seem to favor Soccer IQ, whereas I don't think Soccer IQ can be overrated.  Maybe coaches think they can teach Soccer IQ to the physically dominant players...I just havent seen much of that occuring.


From what I've seen I can only agree. I've heard coaches saying some really dumb stuff and reject players with clearly superior IQ, awareness and ability to execute for athleticism because they can teach the athletes the rest.

Take some players who never were 1v1 specialists or "athletic" or fast and think what could/would have happened to them in some of the top US clubs/academies, like Iniesta or Xavi or Pirlo ... would they have made it? I'd hope so, but ...


----------



## Kante

whatithink said:


> IMO, you change the age grouping back to the pre-calendar year one. You have the Aug-Jul date range with the Aug-Dec playing with the Jan-Jul. Generally, they are then same grade & peer group, which is positive. The Jan-Jul kids are being challenged vs older kids - which has always helped when being selected based on the FIFA rule (calendar) and the Aug-Dec kids who are late developers have a shot. Today the top teams are dominated with Jan-Jul birth dates.
> 
> There was a study I read, and this was youth sports, not just soccer, and it had something like 75% or more of elite players in youth sports were Jan-Jun and only 25% or less Jul-Dec. There was an extended finding that something like 30% of the Jan-Jun played elite after while 80% of the Jul-Dec did. Basically, early developers always get the nod. Big, strong, fast & athletic always trumps technique, brains etc. in a push - its like buying IBM back in the day from a coach perspective. The clubs & coaches will never change this.


yup, usa had two cycles - the school year for domestic play and then the calendar year for international play. 

was an advantage we had that we gave away. 

brilliant.


----------



## vegasguy

MacDre said:


> I 100% agree with your assessment but my experience is limited to the Quakes academy. @vegasguy seems to think the Quakes aren’t a top club and the US soccer landscape is full of great talent going to Germany for a promising future. How prevalent is this lack of soccer IQ that you and I speak of in the US soccer landscape?



The Quakes are not Top Quality and others are.. NYCFC is becoming top quality.. but maybe Columbus FC is not.  Xolos maybe but Tiburones may not be.   We do have a ton of talent moving abroad.  That is not to say our IQ is lacking but we thirst to jump to more competition and honestly we skip Mx to go to EU.   MX and US development is on the same curve line.  It isn't 20yrs.. it is 2yrs and we are pushing to Europe as Mex stays pat.   As Bobby Brown said, That's My Prerogative.

Again @MacDre  look at the players.   They want US not Mex.  Men and Women at apples and oranges but the game evolves too..   Look how it is played.. look at pace and style..   There will always be a Marta, a Messi, a Ronaldino but the game evolves and they move within it.  Even the Triangle has gone away.


----------



## vegasguy

Kante said:


> yup, usa had two cycles - the school year for domestic play and then the calendar year for international play.
> 
> was an advantage we had that we gave away.
> 
> brilliant.


We all agree DA did not meet the objective.   But within the scope, there were great successes.


----------



## MacDre

whatithink said:


> From what I've seen I can only agree. I've heard coaches saying some really dumb stuff and reject players with clearly superior IQ, awareness and ability to execute for athleticism because they can teach the athletes the rest.
> 
> Take some players who never were 1v1 specialists or "athletic" or fast and think what could/would have happened to them in some of the top US clubs/academies, like Iniesta or Xavi or Pirlo ... would they have made it? I'd hope so, but ...


NYCFC's Andrea *Pirlo*: *MLS* has too much running, too little play. Former Italy midfielder Andrea *Pirlo said* that U.S. players are not taught technical skills at an early age and that ultimately affects the quality of play in *Major League Soccer*. ... "It's a very hard league to play in.


----------



## watfly

MacDre said:


> NYCFC's Andrea *Pirlo*: *MLS* has too much running, too little play. Former Italy midfielder Andrea *Pirlo said* that U.S. players are not taught technical skills at an early age and that ultimately affects the quality of play in *Major League Soccer*. ... "It's a very hard league to play in.


IDK if its so much that our youth are not taught technical skills, its that they aren't learning how to use the appropriate skill for a particular in game decision.


----------



## texanincali

watfly said:


> IDK if its so much that our youth are not taught technical skills, its that they aren't learning how to use the appropriate skill for a particular in game decision.


"Skills" is such an overused term in today's soccer.  To 90% of people, having skills has turned into doing stupid tricks.  In reality it is such a broad term and encompasses many parts of the game.  Very few of our youth know how to strike a ball properly, with the correct weight.  That is a skill.  I don't see many being able to turn with the ball into space.  That is a skill.  I don't see many being able to find that extra half yard of space to receive the ball.  That is a skill.  I do think the US youth league probably lead the world in step overs performed in a match, but we can't do the other things well.


----------



## Dargle

Kante said:


> for the non-mls clubs, sounds like many will be still stuck at u13/u14. likely not Barca or TFA, maybe not LAUFA, but the rest.
> 
> for those u13/u14 non-MLS clubs, new MLS league seems like window dressing. better, more honest option for those clubs' families would have been to play in leagues where there would be pro/rel now, which is what their option will be at u15.


I'm not sure "stuck at" is the right term.  In DA, they were out of the league at the higher age groups.  In the MLS league it sounds like they will still be in the league, but they will just have fewer opportunities to play the MLS teams (but still some, especially in SoCal, where there are two teams and they want to get lower cost games).

And, I'm not sure "honest" pro rel actually exists in Socal youth soccer.  ECNL doesn't even pretend to have it.  There's a reason why "club" is in the name.  Definitely not SCDSL, which mostly doesn't have it and where the big clubs influence what they do have because they run the league.  Coast says it has it, but SCDSL's presence has put pressure to limit it over the years and Premier is by application and isn't automatic.


----------



## watfly

texanincali said:


> "Skills" is such an overused term in today's soccer.  To 90% of people, having skills has turned into doing stupid tricks.  In reality it is such a broad term and encompasses many parts of the game.  Very few of our youth know how to strike a ball properly, with the correct weight.  That is a skill.  I don't see many being able to turn with the ball into space.  That is a skill.  I don't see many being able to find that extra half yard of space to receive the ball.  That is a skill.  I do think the US youth league probably lead the world in step overs performed in a match, but we can't do the other things well.


My pet peeve...coaches that teach that you have to shoot with your instep.  How many shots do we see well within the box that are sprayed wide because the kid powered it with their instep instead of simply "passing" into the goal with the side of their foot.


----------



## Husky13

Son said:


> US Soccer was trying to take early physical growth into consideration.  At the three U14 regional camps last year, each kid was measured for peak height velocity to see where they were in terms of physical growth.  When the kids went back to their teams, the teams administered the same peak height velocity testing.
> 
> I am not sure what US Soccer or the teams did with that data.  Presumably they took into consideration boys who may not have hit their growth spurts yet.  But looking at the selections for the next U14 camps and then the single U15 camp before the shutdown, it was clear the US YNT still favored more mature and physically dominant kids.


This is exactly right.  They talked the talk.  (I even spoke with one of the leaders, who seemed very in tune with these issues without me even raising them.)  But, when it came to player selections for Poland, even positioning/playing time at the camps, it was clear they weren't walking the walk and were just reverting to the physical eye test.  One coach even gave my son feedback that his biggest weakness is beating players 1v1.  My son has weaknesses as a player, no doubt, but this feedback was laughable and showed me that he favors someone who can run past others with pure speed as opposed to players who can dribble and keep p


watfly said:


> I agree there is no shortgage of great atheletes playing in the US.  We have more youth playing soccer than any other nation, the only other nation remotely close is Germany I believe.  I'm going to divert a little bit from your opinion, but yes we focus too much on size and raw athleticism.  I also believe coaches in the US favors the 1v1 player and creative dribbler too much, at the expense of other skills.  What US coaches don't seem to understand is that the ball can travel much faster than one can run and that one can dribble.  Soccer is primarily a decision making sport (aka Soccer IQ) and speed of play is critical.  We're very poor at decision making, particularly at speed.  Its a tremendous skill to be a creative dribbler but it has to be combined with Soccer IQ other wise you're just slowing down the game.  It seems we make our decisions after we receive the ball and were not proactive, ie we lack field vison and awareness, or the technicall term is "scanning".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Football vision' as important as ball skills, experts reveal: Young footballers would benefit from more time learning to read the field -- and less on ball skills
> 
> 
> Learning to read the game is as important to young footballers as kicking a ball. A new study, which highlighted Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard as stars who incorporated the technique into their gameplay, calls on coaches to spend more time training young players to scan the field and less on...
> 
> 
> 
> www.sciencedaily.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also believe we've distorted what it means to be a great 1v1 player.  Its now been boiled down to someone that can beat someone on the dribble...actually its evolved into someone that can sometimes win a 1v2, 1v3, 1v4.  In my mind, a 1v1 player is one that can defend the dribble, win 50/50 or less balls, can out position or outsmart their opponent to receive the ball, etc.  These "new age" 1v1 players that take on two or more players are not only slowing the game down but they are also not taking advantage of their teams numerical advantage that has been created.  That's something else I don't see very often is coaches teaching the importance of gaining a numerical advantage where play is occuring.  Coaching of movement off the ball is improving but we still have a lot of room to improve.
> 
> I guess my conclusion is that coaches don't seem to favor Soccer IQ, whereas I don't think Soccer IQ can be overrated.  Maybe coaches think they can teach Soccer IQ to the physically dominant players...I just havent seen much of that occuring.


Couldn't agree more.  

By the way, it is amazing how WRONG some coaches and scouts get "soccer IQ".  I have seen scouts/rankings praise highly ranked players for tremendous soccer IQ, when the players who play with those players will tell you that they have a hard time playing with those players because they never make the pass on time, telegraph what they are going to do, put the receiving player in a tough spot with the pass, etc.  Is that high "soccer IQ"?  Some of these same players are known for receiving the ball and then taking a few dribbles to figure out what they are going to do with the ball.  That is not going to be unlearned at the high school ages.  Yet, those players get promoted upward ….


----------



## Kante

Dargle said:


> I'm not sure "stuck at" is the right term.  In DA, they were out of the league at the higher age groups.  In the MLS league it sounds like they will still be in the league, but they will just have fewer opportunities to play the MLS teams (but still some, especially in SoCal, where there are two teams and they want to get lower cost games).
> 
> And, I'm not sure "honest" pro rel actually exists in Socal youth soccer.  ECNL doesn't even pretend to have it.  There's a reason why "club" is in the name.  Definitely not SCDSL, which mostly doesn't have it and where the big clubs influence what they do have because they run the league.  Coast says it has it, but SCDSL's presence has put pressure to limit it over the years and Premier is by application and isn't automatic.


Was thinking of CSL re: pro/rel but am taking that at face value.

(so for example, you're saying that DTLA South Bay who finished 1st in Gold South in Fall 2019 is not a lock on getting promoted up to prem? Don't have experience here so honestly don't know). 

The word am getting from a couple of different DA clubs is that former u13 and u14-only DA clubs will stay u13 and u14. It's possible to apply for more but ... (same as before essentially). 

System benefits the MLS clubs, which is fine since it's an MLS league (and better than when US Soccer did same but represented something else...) but non-MLS clubs shouldn't represent any different to families...


----------



## BIGD

No one wants to hear this but you have to be willing to lose games, at least at first, to teach soccer IQ.  It takes patience and time and I don't think the coaches feel that they have that luxury as the parents put so much value in winning games.  I see our coach really trying to teach soccer IQ and really getting the kids to understand decision making in the game but the parents don't get it, they don't like losing and they question every decision the coach makes and coach their kid to do something different than what the coach is telling them to do.   We need parents to either really learn the game of soccer or give the sport back to their kids and let them play and be coached and not be so controlling over their kids sport experience.


----------



## texanincali

Husky13 said:


> But, when it came to player selections for Poland, even positioning/playing time at the camps, it was clear they weren't walking the walk and were just reverting to the physical eye test.


There is no doubt that it plays a role in selection.  I think its a little unfair to say it played a role for everyone.  In that age group there are 2 kids (Jenkins and Jacobs) I think are viewed as good players now, but I don't see them doing much, if anything as a professional.  Some other bigger(ish) kids but they are also phenomenal soccer players.  Hernandez, Norris and Ramirez with FC Dallas are very small and in that team, as was one of the other midfielders.  

When YNT are put together, especially for a tournament, they are done so to win.  Your son is obviously talented to be in these camps, so I would keep encouraging him to find solutions against these bigger faster kids, especially as a U16.  If he is going to grow, it will come and his talent will show.  Sometimes its just a waiting game and sometimes its unfair who grows early.  I don't think the solution is playing his own age if he is of this talent level.


----------



## Son

Husky13 said:


> This is exactly right.  They talked the talk.  (I even spoke with one of the leaders, who seemed very in tune with these issues without me even raising them.)  But, when it came to player selections for Poland, even positioning/playing time at the camps, it was clear they weren't walking the walk and were just reverting to the physical eye test.  One coach even gave my son feedback that his biggest weakness is beating players 1v1.  My son has weaknesses as a player, no doubt, but this feedback was laughable and showed me that he favors someone who can run past others with pure speed as opposed to players who can dribble and keep p


The coaches are under a lot of pressure to win internationally for this age group as well all the other YNT age groups. It is tough for coaches to get away from the big physical players, especially  if these bigger players were the ones doing well at the camps during the scrimmages.

What I have noticed though some of the physically imposing players that stood out at the U14 camps did not have strong U15 seasons.  So in one year, their physical superiority was already less a factor as other players may have closed the gap physically.


----------



## Husky13

texanincali said:


> There is no doubt that it plays a role in selection.  I think its a little unfair to say it played a role for everyone.  In that age group there are 2 kids (Jenkins and Jacobs) I think are viewed as good players now, but I don't see them doing much, if anything as a professional.  Some other bigger(ish) kids but they are also phenomenal soccer players.  Hernandez, Norris and Ramirez with FC Dallas are very small and in that team, as was one of the other midfielders.
> 
> When YNT are put together, especially for a tournament, they are done so to win.  Your son is obviously talented to be in these camps, so I would keep encouraging him to find solutions against these bigger faster kids, especially as a U16.  If he is going to grow, it will come and his talent will show.  Sometimes its just a waiting game and sometimes its unfair who grows early.  I don't think the solution is playing his own age if he is of this talent level.


To be clear, my statement didn't apply to all players.  My concern goes way beyond who is selected to go on a trip, because if showing well is a factor (which it always is), then constructing a competitive team usually involves choosing some kids with size.  

My concern revolves around certain players who are being propped up at the top - discussed as part of the great youth movement of U.S. youth soccer - who display some of the (in my view fatal) shortcomings that I described in my prior post.  

One of the challenges with soccer is that player evaluation is far more subjective than sports like basketball and baseball.  Soccer is more dependent on scouts and coaches to identify the best players because of this.  When some of the coaches who are responsible for these decisions can't even form a coherent thought in a conversation, it makes it harder to find room for optimism ….


----------



## Dargle

Kante said:


> Was thinking of CSL re: pro/rel but am taking that at face value.
> 
> (so for example, you're saying that DTLA South Bay who finished 1st in Gold South in Fall 2019 is not a lock on getting promoted up to prem? Don't have experience here so honestly don't know).
> 
> The word am getting from a couple of different DA clubs is that former u13 and u14-only DA clubs will stay u13 and u14. It's possible to apply for more but ... (same as before essentially).
> 
> System benefits the MLS clubs, which is fine since it's an MLS league (and better than when US Soccer did same but represented something else...) but non-MLS clubs shouldn't represent any different to families...


Premier is by application only, while first in Silver Elite is automatically promoted to Gold under CSL rules, but I was thinking more about relegation and promotion in the discretionary zone (not first or last, but second or third to each), which can be affected by club influence.

I've heard differently about MLS age groups, but it's possible that what you're hearing just means former DA clubs will promote their existing age group teams and not field totally new teams at the higher age groups that weren't DA previously.  So, a team like Chula Vista that was only U13 last year in DA, might be U13 and U14 in the MLS league this year, but they're not going to scramble and enter teams in the U15 age group until next year when the U14 team moves up.

It's also possible that the tier system starts in U15, so Chula Vista might field a U15 team this year, but it will be in the "Elite teams" tier and not the MLS teams tier (although it sounds like crossover play between MLS and Elite teams will happen), while its U13 and U14 teams would be in the same division as the MLS teams because they don't have a tier system yet.

In any either case, there's no question the MLS league will prioritize players they care about, which doesn't necessarily mean all the current players on a MLS academy team.  If a club enters teams in this league, they have to know the MLS teams will scout and try to cherry pick the other teams' players and the clubs have to accept that since that's part of the league's attraction for the players.  Might even be some kind of "discovery list" since MLS teams were supposedly ending territorial restrictions.


----------



## Kante

Dargle said:


> Premier is by application only ...


Got it. Makes sense. There's several clubs that had u14 last year, got shot down by USSDA on their u15 application this Spring and now will only be fielding u13 and u14 again w/ the MLS league, despite having a graduating u14 team who could be available for u15.

Am sure MLS league is whispering sweet nothings/club DA directors are hearing what they want to hear about the "opportunity" to add age groups later on.... Alas, am cynical about this piece.

In other news, MLS just announced a partnership w/ USYS which sounds promising. Lots of deets tbd (and will withhold opinion until deets follow) but makes a lot of senseon surface.Your thoughts and/or any additional insights? (also, jpeter, any thoughts or insights?)

For example, how does this announcement affect ODP and/or is this ODP but w/ MLS help?

Here's link to announcement: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/05/15/mls-and-usys-announce-strategic-partnership-offer-new-identification-opportunities.

*MLS and USYS Announce Strategic Partnership to Offer New Identification Opportunities for Domestic Players*​May 15, 20209:41AM EDT​MLS Communications​​*MLS and USYS Announce Strategic Partnership to Offer New Identification Opportunities for Domestic Players*​​_MLS partners with largest youth soccer organization in the country to create inclusive and accessible pathway to the professional game_​​_MLS & USYS to collaborate on professional development, coaching education and talent identification resources for members of the USYS soccer community_​
​*NEW YORK *_(May 15, 2020)_ – Major League Soccer today announced a groundbreaking partnership with the United States Youth Soccer Association (USYS), the largest youth sport organization in the country, to collaborate on initiatives that support and engage individual soccer players, as well as soccer communities, throughout the United States.​​The collaboration will support enhancements in player identification and monitoring, coaching and scouting education, competition and fan engagement throughout the USYS community that includes more than 3 million boys and girls soccer players across 55 member State Associations. In addition, the partnership will create a clear pathway for boys and girls to be seen and scouted, regardless of location or financial resources.​​“We are very proud that USYS and its 55 member States Associations have decided to make MLS their league of choice,” said Gordon Bengtson, Senior Director of Player Development. “The State Associations are crucial partners in creating more meaningful connections to the professional levels while supporting the overall growth of the game. This is particularly important in communities that have not historically had access to elite development environments or professional pathways. This is a first step towards our goal of making the size and diversity of our country, our biggest strength.”​
CLICK HERE for photos, logos and graphics around the partnership.
MLS today announced, in partnership with USYS, a new regional competition platform to provide talented young boys and girls players with the ability to participate in regional competitions in front of professional club scouts. This strategic partnership will help build on the foundation provided by MLS’ announcement of the new elite youth development platform.​​By empowering the technical leaders at the local and state levels, players who excel in high school programs, on club teams, or in local soccer leagues throughout the country will be recommended for the regional competition platform.​​MLS will collaborate with the technical leadership of all 55 State Associations as well as the USYS National Office to develop best practices in talent identification in each region. As part of the commitment to enable access and remove barriers for talented players to reach their highest potential, MLS will absorb all expenses for players attending and participating in the regional competitions in select age levels.  Eliminating financial barriers for young players throughout the country is critical to ensure talented players can be seen and scouted during their formative years.​​“This is not a short-term vision, but rather one in which we realize the opportunity to truly connect the whole system of soccer in our country. For too long the professional and youth systems have been working relatively independent of each other and with this MLS partnership, we start down the path of true collaboration. This will not only expand resources to grow the game at the grassroots level, but also reveal to players and families that there is a clear pathway to any level of soccer they want to achieve,” said US Youth Soccer CEO Skip Gilbert.​​“Our goal is to ensure that every player throughout the country has the ability to reach his or her highest potential,” said Fred Lipka, Technical Director of Player Development.  “There are so many young soccer players in this country that do not have the ability to access elite travel soccer programs that offer greater opportunities for talent identification. We want to ensure that every player has a clear pathway to achieve their dream of playing at the collegiate or professional level, regardless of location or financial resources.”​​Additionally, as part of the broader partnership, MLS and USYS are committed to creating educational and development opportunities for USYS parents, coaches and volunteers.​​“It is vital that we continue to eliminate barriers for promising players,” said Alecko Eskandarian, former MLS player and current Director of Player Relations and Competition. “Every player deserves the opportunity to showcase his or her hard work and individual talent in front of top scouts, regardless of club affiliation or location.”​​​


----------



## lafalafa

Kante said:


> Got it. Makes sense. There's several clubs that had u14 last year, got shot down by USSDA on their u15 application this Spring and now will only be fielding u13 and u14 again w/ the MLS league, despite having a graduating u14 team who could be available for u15.
> 
> Am sure MLS league is whispering sweet nothings/club DA directors are hearing what they want to hear about the "opportunity" to add age groups later on.... Alas, am cynical about this piece.
> 
> In other news, MLS just announced a partnership w/ USYS which sounds promising. Lots of deets tbd (and will withhold opinion until deets follow) but makes a lot of senseon surface.Your thoughts and/or any additional insights? (also, jpeter, any thoughts or insights?)
> 
> For example, how does this announcement affect ODP and/or is this ODP but w/ MLS help?
> 
> Here's link to announcement: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020/05/15/mls-and-usys-announce-strategic-partnership-offer-new-identification-opportunities.
> 
> *MLS and USYS Announce Strategic Partnership to Offer New Identification Opportunities for Domestic Players*​May 15, 20209:41AM EDT​MLS Communications​​*MLS and USYS Announce Strategic Partnership to Offer New Identification Opportunities for Domestic Players*​​_MLS partners with largest youth soccer organization in the country to create inclusive and accessible pathway to the professional game_​​_MLS & USYS to collaborate on professional development, coaching education and talent identification resources for members of the USYS soccer community_​
> ​*NEW YORK *_(May 15, 2020)_ – Major League Soccer today announced a groundbreaking partnership with the United States Youth Soccer Association (USYS), the largest youth sport organization in the country, to collaborate on initiatives that support and engage individual soccer players, as well as soccer communities, throughout the United States.​​The collaboration will support enhancements in player identification and monitoring, coaching and scouting education, competition and fan engagement throughout the USYS community that includes more than 3 million boys and girls soccer players across 55 member State Associations. In addition, the partnership will create a clear pathway for boys and girls to be seen and scouted, regardless of location or financial resources.​​“We are very proud that USYS and its 55 member States Associations have decided to make MLS their league of choice,” said Gordon Bengtson, Senior Director of Player Development. “The State Associations are crucial partners in creating more meaningful connections to the professional levels while supporting the overall growth of the game. This is particularly important in communities that have not historically had access to elite development environments or professional pathways. This is a first step towards our goal of making the size and diversity of our country, our biggest strength.”​
> CLICK HERE for photos, logos and graphics around the partnership.
> MLS today announced, in partnership with USYS, a new regional competition platform to provide talented young boys and girls players with the ability to participate in regional competitions in front of professional club scouts. This strategic partnership will help build on the foundation provided by MLS’ announcement of the new elite youth development platform.​​By empowering the technical leaders at the local and state levels, players who excel in high school programs, on club teams, or in local soccer leagues throughout the country will be recommended for the regional competition platform.​​MLS will collaborate with the technical leadership of all 55 State Associations as well as the USYS National Office to develop best practices in talent identification in each region. As part of the commitment to enable access and remove barriers for talented players to reach their highest potential, MLS will absorb all expenses for players attending and participating in the regional competitions in select age levels.  Eliminating financial barriers for young players throughout the country is critical to ensure talented players can be seen and scouted during their formative years.​​“This is not a short-term vision, but rather one in which we realize the opportunity to truly connect the whole system of soccer in our country. For too long the professional and youth systems have been working relatively independent of each other and with this MLS partnership, we start down the path of true collaboration. This will not only expand resources to grow the game at the grassroots level, but also reveal to players and families that there is a clear pathway to any level of soccer they want to achieve,” said US Youth Soccer CEO Skip Gilbert.​​“Our goal is to ensure that every player throughout the country has the ability to reach his or her highest potential,” said Fred Lipka, Technical Director of Player Development.  “There are so many young soccer players in this country that do not have the ability to access elite travel soccer programs that offer greater opportunities for talent identification. We want to ensure that every player has a clear pathway to achieve their dream of playing at the collegiate or professional level, regardless of location or financial resources.”​​Additionally, as part of the broader partnership, MLS and USYS are committed to creating educational and development opportunities for USYS parents, coaches and volunteers.​​“It is vital that we continue to eliminate barriers for promising players,” said Alecko Eskandarian, former MLS player and current Director of Player Relations and Competition. “Every player deserves the opportunity to showcase his or her hard work and individual talent in front of top scouts, regardless of club affiliation or location.”​​​


Yes that was behind the earlier USYS / MLS inclusion announcements, now w/ some of details are being out worked out the national league for MLS-EYDP with have regional tournaments brackets where the regular USYS club teams can also play.  One stop scouting and I'm sure college will turn out also.

Non-MLS clubs can optionally enter teams in other age groups they may have not had in DA if certain conditions are meet, still working out the details but its not a closed/shut type of deal like da was every year.


----------



## numero15

Dargle said:


> Premier is by application only, while first in Silver Elite is automatically promoted to Gold under CSL rules, but I was thinking more about relegation and promotion in the discretionary zone (not first or last, but second or third to each), which can be affected by club influence.
> 
> I've heard differently about MLS age groups, but it's possible that what you're hearing just means former DA clubs will promote their existing age group teams and not field totally new teams at the higher age groups that weren't DA previously.  So, a team like Chula Vista that was only U13 last year in DA, might be U13 and U14 in the MLS league this year, but they're not going to scramble and enter teams in the U15 age group until next year when the U14 team moves up.
> 
> It's also possible that the tier system starts in U15, so Chula Vista might field a U15 team this year, but it will be in the "Elite teams" tier and not the MLS teams tier (although it sounds like crossover play between MLS and Elite teams will happen), while its U13 and U14 teams would be in the same division as the MLS teams because they don't have a tier system yet.
> 
> In any either case, there's no question the MLS league will prioritize players they care about, which doesn't necessarily mean all the current players on a MLS academy team.  If a club enters teams in this league, they have to know the MLS teams will scout and try to cherry pick the other teams' players and the clubs have to accept that since that's part of the league's attraction for the players.  Might even be some kind of "discovery list" since MLS teams were supposedly ending territorial restrictions.


any word/thought about how the tiered structure, if at all, would be at U17?


----------



## jpeter

numero15 said:


> any word/thought about how the tiered structure, if at all, would be at U17?


Still not decided or the amount of games but they are aiming for more games than what da used to be.   

I will take a simple basic assumption if a fall league happens:  MLS teams will match up with other MLS or liked teams more often vs the Non-MLS ones depending on participation.  Teams like TFA, Albion, City, Nomands  play each MLS club once for example while LAFC & Galaxy play each other 2-3x per seasonal split. 

If fall league doesn't go due to economics, C19, or other factors there will be scrimmages, mini tournaments, and some kinds of games or showcases.


----------



## Husky13

jpeter said:


> Still not decided or the amount of games but they are aiming for more games than what da used to be.
> 
> I will take a simple basic assumption if a fall league happens:  MLS teams will match up with other MLS or liked teams more often vs the Non-MLS ones depending on participation.  Teams like TFA, Albion, City, Nomands  play each MLS club once for example while LAFC & Galaxy play each other 2-3x per seasonal split.
> 
> If fall league doesn't go due to economics, C19, or other factors there will be scrimmages, mini tournaments, and some kinds of games or showcases.


Or, perhaps league games in the fall will be confined to games vs. other teams within driving distance, with a plan for more travel next spring?


----------



## Kante

First, this kind of insight is unique, so please subscribe today to SoccerAmerica (again, not at all affiliated w/ SA, just an admirer of their excellent work)

Here's some significant details on the MLS/USYS partnership:


*MLS and U.S. Youth Soccer unveil massive U.S. player identification project*

by Paul Kennedy @pkedit, 7 hours ago

MLS and U.S. Youth Soccer have announced plans to launch one of the ambitious player development projects ever undertaken in the United States.

While the exact details are being worked out, and the COVID-19 pandemic adds a layer of uncertainty about just what the program will entail and when it will take place, there are two key elements to the plan:

*1.* Boys and girls will be invited to regional camps and then have a chance to go to a national event. They will selected by a network of scouts MLS sets up with USYS and its state associations.

*2.* All the costs -- transportation and room and board -- at both the regional and national events will be paid for by MLS.

"This is a large undertaking," *Gordon Bengtson*, MLS's senior director of player development, said in an interview with Soccer America. "but one that we feel is an absolutely necessary. The diversity and size of our country has historically been viewed as our biggest weakness. This makes sense to us that this should be our greatest asset and we have to do what we can do to make it our greatest strength."

What is the size and scope of the program?

With the proviso the details still need to worked out and the pandemic and its economic fall-out might dictate changes in the scope of the program, Bengtson outlined some of the general thinking about the program on the boys' side. (MLS and USYS will be talking with the NWSL and college coaches about the best approach in terms of age groups and location of events on the girls' side).
*
1. Players in the program can come from anywhere.* This is not simply a USYS program, like ODP. Players could play for affiliated or unaffiliated teams, play in adult or youth leagues, play for USYS, U.S. Club Soccer, USSSA, AYSO, SAY or any other youth organization, or they could play for only their high school.

-- The success of the program will depend on the ability of MLS to develop and manage a scouting program that finds players in places where they were overlooked before and indeed identifies the best players.

*2. The age groups will be U-14s and U-16s.* The reason for that is that the national event will be held in conjunction with the Generation adidas Cup for U-15 and U-17 MLS and foreign teams that is held in spring at the FC Dallas complex in Frisco, Texas. This creates an aspirational aspect to the program, giving players the incentive that they could move on next year and play for an MLS academy team at the GA Cup.

-- Rosters for the national event will be in the range of 18-25 players, and the organization of the event will have to flexible to give everyone an opportunity to be seen.

*3. The four regional camps will each include about 250 players.* That's on the order of a thousand players whose costs will be paid for.

This contrasts with the ODP program, a pay-to-play program. Depending on the state association, state ODP fees, regional ODP camp fees and transportation costs can exceed $2,000.

"The ODP program has been adrift for probably the last 10-15 years," said Bengtson. "It used to be the channel for the youth national teams. That changed since the DA came in and they really only scouted in that environment."

Bengtson said the new program will give USYS's youth initiatives "a fresh coat of paint" and a new aligned vision on player development and how to grow the game.

"Most important," he said, "it will afford every player the opportunity, no matter where they are, to have a very clear pathway and remove as many barriers as possible."


----------



## 46n2

*ODP turned into such a money grab over the past 5 years*.  Almost embarrassing, The caliber of kids they were inviting to sessions was questionable at best.


----------



## GoolRonaldo7

I have been hearing from parents from various clubs that the clubs will know what age groups they will have and be part of with this new MLS Elite league next week. Has anyone else heard something similar, or is it all speculations/rumors.


----------



## texanincali

Can anyone confirm that this new MLS Youth League will begin in January 2021 and not in the fall of 2020?  It is a little discomforting that clubs are wanting commitments from players without sharing any information on what the league will look like.


----------



## jpeter

texanincali said:


> Can anyone confirm that this new MLS Youth League will begin in January 2021 and not in the fall of 2020?  It is a little discomforting that clubs are wanting commitments from players without sharing any information on what the league will look like.


Have not heard about fall or January yet. Some earlier talk about spring 2021 being the first tournaments but nothing specific lately.

MLS owners have said they will lose somewhere around $1b this year even with a Florida tournament like what the NBA is moving forward with.

Without the teams back in thier home stadiums playing I would say youth teams are a long shot to get going in a league before they do. Between the economics, restrictions, and aim to align with the first-team this youth league is likely to follow what they do.  In others words when you can attend a LAFC or Galaxy home game the youth league should be going at the same time.

Fall may end up just being training, scrimmages on a smaller scale than what a league  would normally be


----------



## watfly

texanincali said:


> Can anyone confirm that this new MLS Youth League will begin in January 2021 and not in the fall of 2020?  It is a little discomforting that clubs are wanting commitments from players without sharing any information on what the league will look like.


A January start wouldn't surprise me.  In defense of the clubs I don't think they really know what's going on either.   Our club has not asked for any prepayments for next season, nor would I be comfortable making such payments.   However, I know of other clubs that have been requiring payment for next season for a number of weeks.


----------



## messy

The MLS youth academies are mum for the moment.
They’re trying to figure out first teams’ schedules first...


----------



## jpeter

messy said:


> The MLS youth academies are mum for the moment.
> They’re trying to figure out first teams’ schedules first...


Started small group training today.

They decided no home games just a tournament:

That plan is not finalized yet, but is expected to take the form of a tournament in Orlando








						MLS return: Commissioner Don Garber optimistic about potential tournament, remainder of 2020 | MLSSoccer.com
					

MLS return: Commissioner optimistic about potential tournament and beyond




					www.mlssoccer.com


----------



## Desert Hound

messy said:


> The MLS youth academies are mum for the moment.
> They’re trying to figure out first teams’ schedules first...


Rock...hard place. 

Until states, etc open up, planning is shall we say rather difficult.


----------



## jpeter

Well looks like Nplwest is going to be another league involved to supplement or until the MLS-EYSL gets going 



			SoCal Premier - June 2020 News
		


2020-21 NPL West
U11-U19

Clubs committed so far to participate:
LA Galaxy
LAFC
Arsenal FC
Beach SC
City FC Carlsbad
Chula Vista FC
FC Golden State
LA Breakers
LA Surf
LAUFA
Legends SC
Murrietta Surf
Pateadores
Real So Cal
San Diego SC
Slammers FC / CDA
Strikers FC
Surf San Diego
West Coast SC


----------



## messy

jpeter said:


> Well looks like Nplwest is going to be another league involved to supplement or until the MLS-EYSL gets going
> 
> 
> 
> SoCal Premier - June 2020 News
> 
> 
> 
> 2020-21 NPL West
> U11-U19
> 
> Clubs committed so far to participate:
> LA Galaxy
> LAFC
> Arsenal FC
> Beach SC
> City FC Carlsbad
> Chula Vista FC
> FC Golden State
> LA Breakers
> LA Surf
> LAUFA
> Legends SC
> Murrietta Surf
> Pateadores
> Real So Cal
> San Diego SC
> Slammers FC / CDA
> Strikers FC
> Surf San Diego
> West Coast SC


It’s actually amusing at this point. Not judging anyone, but still...


----------



## Zvezdas

jpeter said:


> Well looks like Nplwest is going to be another league involved to supplement or until the MLS-EYSL gets going
> 
> 
> 
> SoCal Premier - June 2020 News
> 
> 
> 
> 2020-21 NPL West
> U11-U19
> 
> Clubs committed so far to participate:
> LA Galaxy
> LAFC
> Arsenal FC
> Beach SC
> City FC Carlsbad
> Chula Vista FC
> FC Golden State
> LA Breakers
> LA Surf
> LAUFA
> Legends SC
> Murrietta Surf
> Pateadores
> Real So Cal
> San Diego SC
> Slammers FC / CDA
> Strikers FC
> Surf San Diego
> West Coast SC


Will this league encompass all age groups or only youngers like u11-13?


----------



## jpeter

messy said:


> It’s actually amusing at this point. Not judging anyone, but still...


Yeah there are age gaps in MLS-EYDP/SL so those clubs need a place for there players.  

Galaxy & LAFC not in the ECxx platform and the others in a variety so might be the only one you actually see cross league type of match ups.  Both USclub leagues so that gives some tournaments and other player movement opportunity,   how it all shakes out? Who knows


----------



## jpeter

Zvezdas said:


> Will this league encompass all age groups or only youngers like u11-13?


u11-u19 according to the latest news yesterday


			SoCal Premier - June 2020 News


----------



## watfly

jpeter said:


> Well looks like Nplwest is going to be another league involved to supplement or until the MLS-EYSL gets going
> 
> 
> 
> SoCal Premier - June 2020 News
> 
> 
> 
> 2020-21 NPL West
> U11-U19
> 
> Clubs committed so far to participate:
> LA Galaxy
> LAFC
> Arsenal FC
> Beach SC
> City FC Carlsbad
> Chula Vista FC
> FC Golden State
> LA Breakers
> LA Surf
> LAUFA
> Legends SC
> Murrietta Surf
> Pateadores
> Real So Cal
> San Diego SC
> Slammers FC / CDA
> Strikers FC
> Surf San Diego
> West Coast SC


What role is NPL West supposed to play in the alleged hierarchy?  It seems that it will be for Flight 2 teams for the MLS league clubs and possibly Flight 3 teams for the ECNL/ECRL (other than at the younger ages where it may be the flight 1 teams for both leagues)?  Or am I just super confused?


----------



## jpeter

watfly said:


> What role is NPL West supposed to play in the alleged hierarchy?  It seems that it will be for Flight 2 teams for the MLS league clubs and possibly Flight 3 teams for the ECNL/ECRL (other than at the younger ages where it may be the flight 1 teams for both leagues)?  Or am I just super confused?


Yeah don't really know how that will shake out

First teams in some cases for the younger in NPL.

There are age gaps in MLS-EYDP/SL so a strict calendar year u16 team might be in NPL while a combo team u16/17 in the MLS.  Some non MLS clubs don't necessarily have the full spectrum of teams ready for a MLS League.

The ECxx groups besides the first team in ECNL not sure RL or NPL won't be a mashup.  Locations, travel, and costs all factor in so a strict hierarchy may not really be realistic just yet.


----------



## Dargle

The Philadelphia Union Academy Director suggests more local and regional play in the new league

https://www.inquirer.com/soccer/youth-soccer-mls-ussf-development-academy-philadelphia-union-tommy-wilson-20200608.html?outputType=amp&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=ios&utm_campaign=app_ios_article&utm_content=QLEL6AB6AZAHLNKH6LR3OGI67M&__twitter_impression=true

*Do you think this new league will have more games against local and regional teams than the Development Academy did?*
Yeah, I think that was part of the work that we [did]. I’m all for, and I really enjoyed the games against, LAFC, etc., and the L.A. Galaxy — apart from when they beat us. But I don’t think that a continental youth league makes sense. The young boys spend too much time on planes and in hotels, and it costs the clubs too much money.


----------



## apples

jpeter said:


> Well looks like Nplwest is going to be another league involved to supplement or until the MLS-EYSL gets going
> 
> 
> 
> SoCal Premier - June 2020 News
> 
> 
> 
> 2020-21 NPL West
> U11-U19
> 
> Clubs committed so far to participate:
> LA Galaxy
> LAFC
> Arsenal FC
> Beach SC
> City FC Carlsbad
> Chula Vista FC
> FC Golden State
> LA Breakers
> LA Surf
> LAUFA
> Legends SC
> Murrietta Surf
> Pateadores
> Real So Cal
> San Diego SC
> Slammers FC / CDA
> Strikers FC
> Surf San Diego
> West Coast SC


NPl will be like a 3rd string level. After ECNL, CRL, MLS elite teams... MLS teams will only participate on the NPL U11 and U12..


----------



## SocalWestDad

apples said:


> NPl will be like a 3rd string level. After ECNL, CRL, MLS elite teams... MLS teams will only participate on the NPL U11 and U12..


Awesome. Thanks Apple. NPL was great last year for u11 and u12. Talk was that some of the NPL teams that went from the DA to ECNL were going to create ECNL Jr. But we will see what happens.


----------



## apples

SocalWestDad said:


> Awesome. Thanks Apple. NPL was great last year for u11 and u12. Talk was that some of the NPL teams that went from the DA to ECNL were going to create ECNL Jr. But we will see what happens.


I think it will be called CRL or CRL2


----------



## RedDevilDad

Anyone hearing anything about when the schedule will be released?  Thanks!


----------



## northeastlafc

watfly said:


> What role is NPL West supposed to play in the alleged hierarchy?  It seems that it will be for Flight 2 teams for the MLS league clubs and possibly Flight 3 teams for the ECNL/ECRL (other than at the younger ages where it may be the flight 1 teams for both leagues)?  Or am I just super confused?


For boys I’m assuming it’s going to be 
1. Boys ECNL
2. NPL West/CRL
3. Coast SL/ SCDSL

I don’t think there’ll be an ECRL for boys I haven’t seen any legitimate news anywhere.


----------



## NumberTen

northeastlafc said:


> For boys I’m assuming it’s going to be
> 1. Boys ECNL
> 2. NPL West/CRL
> 3. Coast SL/ SCDSL
> 
> I don’t think there’ll be an ECRL for boys I haven’t seen any legitimate news anywhere.


I would not place the NPL west and CRL as equivalent.  More likely  SoCal NPL, as they were far superior to NPL west the last few seasons, at least for olders.  

Several teams in SD have boys ECRL teams listed as their second teams.


----------



## northeastlafc

NumberTen said:


> I would not place the NPL west and CRL as equivalent.  More likely  SoCal NPL, as they were far superior to NPL west the last few seasons, at least for olders.
> 
> Several teams in SD have boys ECRL teams listed as their second teams.


I put them in the same tier because they’re both the 2nd tier leagues for their respective associations; NPL West=USCS & CRL=USYS although I may agree since CRL is qualifying teams only


----------



## lafalafa

New season players &  teams with determine if there really is a hierarchy.  Let's see what happens.

MLS-EYDP will make the claim there are top, boys ECNL the same, the NPLs like West, Scnpl, and other will say let's play to determine who's really better and they will get that chance next spring in the usclub Enpl playoffs and finals.   After that maybe people can backup who's really tier whatever. 

Somewhat silly but people love themselves labels and categories but In reality all that maters is how players and teams perform and develop over a season. 

Including supplement leagues like CRL in a hierarchy is like including  the national guard in a law enforcement one.  Just temporary or moment in time like a tournament.  Doesn't matter what you call them or rank them if they get the job done all good.


----------



## Timan

northeastlafc said:


> For boys I’m assuming it’s going to be
> 1. Boys ECNL
> 2. NPL West/CRL
> 3. Coast SL/ SCDSL
> 
> I don’t think there’ll be an ECRL for boys I haven’t seen any legitimate news anywhere.


Boys ECNL has announced SoCal ECRL









						ECNL Boys Regional League - SoCal Announced
					

RICHMOND, VA (June 18, 2020) – The ECNL Boys has announced the launch of its third Regional League for the 2020-2021 season, the ECNL Boys Regional League - SoCal. The brand new league will kick off play this fall with 14 ECNL Boys Member Clubs from the Southwest Conference, servicing the deep...




					www.boysecnl.com
				









 SoCal ECRL


----------



## northeastlafc

Timan said:


> Boys ECNL has announced SoCal ECRL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ECNL Boys Regional League - SoCal Announced
> 
> 
> RICHMOND, VA (June 18, 2020) – The ECNL Boys has announced the launch of its third Regional League for the 2020-2021 season, the ECNL Boys Regional League - SoCal. The brand new league will kick off play this fall with 14 ECNL Boys Member Clubs from the Southwest Conference, servicing the deep...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.boysecnl.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SoCal ECRL


Oh wow


----------



## jpeter

Return to training for MLS/EYDP starting very soon as early as next week in some places.  Gearing up for more details and reports when the local MLS training facilities open up limited capacity,  restrictions and checks implemented for everyone daily.


----------



## SBFDad

jpeter said:


> Return to training for MLS/EYDP starting very soon as early as next week in some places.  Gearing up for more details and reports when the local MLS training facilities open up limited capacity,  restrictions and checks implemented for everyone daily.


Are you hearing that LAFC and LAG are returning to training soon, or are you just referring to clubs who’ve signed up for the MLS youth league?


----------



## jpeter

SBFDad said:


> Are you hearing that LAFC and LAG are returning to training soon, or are you just referring to clubs who’ve signed up for the MLS youth league?


MLS in Socal and other markets.  Sounders and others are already back for example.

Galaxy has camps there trying to get going again and the facilities open which would allow them to use for youth teams also.

LAFC has plans to follow what the pro teams did: daily checks,  limited numbers at first, just training drills, after they get everyone back for a few weeks progress to the next step, etc


----------



## BJ18

jpeter said:


> MLS in Socal and other markets.  Sounders and others are already back for example.
> 
> Galaxy has camps there trying to get going again and the facilities open which would allow them to use for youth teams also.
> 
> LAFC has plans to follow what the pro teams did: daily checks,  limited numbers at first, just training drills, after they get everyone back for a few weeks progress to the next step, etc


LAFC is not returning to training until at least late July, early August.


----------



## lafalafa

BJ18 said:


> LAFC is not returning to training until at least late July, early August.


Who told you that?

Already doing zoom sessions and they where in discussions to start invidual on site training starting up in earlier July  last I heard from one of the coaches.  Has that changed or some new developments are happenings this week?


----------



## BJ18

lafalafa said:


> Who told you that?
> 
> Already doing zoom sessions and they where in discussions to start invidual on site training starting up in earlier July  last I heard from one of the coaches.  Has that changed or some new developments are happenings this week?


Zoom sessions have been ongoing and the last zoom session will be this Thursday until they are back from summer break.   Zoom or physical, in-person training won't resume until the earliest late July.


----------



## Husky13

jpeter said:


> MLS in Socal and other markets.  Sounders and others are already back for example.


sounders are not back yet.  Not sure where you get your info, but that was not accurate.


----------



## RedDevilDad

Is there an article explaining the MLS Youth League structure? I’ve heard tiers. Thanks


----------



## jpeter

Husky13 said:


> sounders are not back yet.  Not sure where you get your info, but that was not accurate.


Ok maybe just some individual training but know players who said they were going back this week when we talked over the weekend.


----------



## clsafe

jpeter said:


> Ok maybe just some individual training but know players who said they were going back this week when we talked over the weekend.


Sounders not back.  Actually off for next 2 weeks, only doing zoom.  They'll be back the 1st week of July.


----------



## jpeter

clsafe said:


> Sounders not back.  Actually off for next 2 weeks, only doing zoom.  They'll be back the 1st week of July.


Ah I see next week, guess I'm off or misunderstood the dates but only know players in the oldest group. 

At least zooming is done at the end of month for most. Can't be much longer to get back on the pitches.

Usclub real league games are starting up and scheduled July 11st at the ie sports complex and Cal south has July play dates so soccer is starting back up it appears




__





						Event Information
					






					events.gotsport.com


----------



## Husky13

Sounders are completely off until July 6, then start Phase 2 type trainings.  At least, that is the current plan, but with new cases rising dramatically and Washington’s new mask order (issued today), who knows what will happen.


----------



## Kante

FYI, Johns Hopkins publishes state by state charts tracking daily positivity rates (new cases per day as a % of new tests per day). 

Washington (immediately) below looks not great in the last 3-4 days but the rise is positivity% per day is likely a function of fewer tests being reported in the last 3-4 days (in the past, negative tests tend to go unreported for a bit in some places). 

If you look at Arizona (second down), they're probably now in the worst shape in the country with a 22% positivity rate even as test volume has doubled over the last two weeks.

California, by contrast, has significantly increasing test volume in the last 45 days but has also maintained a relatively flat positivity rate. (third down)

Thinking about soccer and local businesses, however, would be really helpful if CA counties published this kind of positivity rate data county by county - to have an idea of what makes sense to do when - since positivity rates can vary significantly county by county, and even city by city. 

here's link:https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states/usa


----------



## messy

Disneyland delays reopening until after July.
Soccer remains unclear, I imagine.


----------



## jpeter

messy said:


> Disneyland delays reopening until after July.
> Soccer remains unclear, I imagine.


Tournaments yeah but training & later regular league games should be ok.

I'm optimistic but things are going slow so we'll see what happens next couple weeks


----------



## Traore

9/12 is the target for the first games.  Mostly against local competition in the Fall.


----------



## vegasguy

It is a rolling not spiking number.. each state has a philosophy on how to manage this.  Our Gov. tells us if we do not comply he will restrict further.   Now I am not anyone who believes this is not serious but we have to manage a lag time not the today time.  Those that are positive today are in a 7 to 14 day window (jmo) set the positive graph back two weeks to match testing. Now average and hospitalization numbers and deaths become more prevalent.  this makes the future average a little more predictable is my thought but again not a doctor.   hey @Ellejustus  a little math for today.


----------



## messy

vegasguy said:


> It is a rolling not spiking number.. each state has a philosophy on how to manage this.  Our Gov. tells us if we do not comply he will restrict further.   Now I am not anyone who believes this is not serious but we have to manage a lag time not the today time.  Those that are positive today are in a 7 to 14 day window (jmo) set the positive graph back two weeks to match testing. Now average and hospitalization numbers and deaths become more prevalent.  this makes the future average a little more predictable is my thought but again not a doctor.   hey @Ellejustus  a little math for today.


Of course there should have been a national policy.
Like every other country and like we have done every time before.


----------



## Patandpats

messy said:


> Of course there should have been a national policy.
> Like every other country and like we have done every time before.


100%.  In March Italy was a mess and a warning sign. Yesterday they had less new cases than San Diego.  If we'd get on board with masks we'd be on our way to beating this thing.


----------



## SBFDad

The evidence is starting to point in the same direction...masks work. They suck, but they work. 2 hair stylists in Missouri were infected and worked for several days. Contact traced 140 people from that salon and none of them tested positive. All were wearing masks, along with the stylists. IHME just updated their models last night to include a trend line that accounts for universal mask use.









						IHME | COVID-19 Projections
					

Explore forecasts of COVID-19 cases, deaths, and hospital resource use.




					covid19.healthdata.org
				




Until there is a useful vaccine or treatment, masks are probably our best protection. We should be able to carry on with most parts of daily life while adding a mask to our wardrobe. Not really doable for athletes and even unsafe, especially in summer, so there needs to be some risk acceptance when it comes to sports and exercise (and yes, risk is part of life...so let’s get back to playing). Mask wear for most other times outside our household seems doable.


----------



## jpeter

Update, 3rd week of July is the tentative restart date for training.

Diginity sports park will be back open for soccer starting week of July 20th and so will other facilities in Socal but don't know the details of which ones just yet but chime in if you have any info to share one way or the other.


----------



## messy

jpeter said:


> Update, 3rd week of July is the tentative restart date for training.
> 
> Diginity sports park will be back open for soccer starting week of July 20th and so will other facilities in Socal but don't know the details of which ones just yet but chime in if you have any info to share one way or the other.


Any news re which age groups?


----------



## Timan

Are More clubs moving to the MLS youth league?








						MLS opens applications for youth league | Club Soccer | Youth Soccer
					

Major League Soccer announced the opening of the application process for its newly created elite youth development platform’s inaugural 2020 season.




					www.topdrawersoccer.com


----------



## 3leches

jpeter said:


> Update, 3rd week of July is the tentative restart date for training.
> 
> Diginity sports park will be back open for soccer starting week of July 20th and so will other facilities in Socal but don't know the details of which ones just yet but chime in if you have any info to share one way or the other.


Outside clubs are practicing at Dignity already. Still no word from Galaxy when training will restart.


----------



## messy

LAFC 7/20.


----------



## Dargle

This seems to confirm the prior information that U15 and U17 are the required age groups for MLS Academies.  That doesn't necessarily mean the MLS EYDP league won't have other age groups. It might be a regional thing that depends upon how many MLS and non-MLS club members are fielding teams in those other age groups.  Probably there are enough do it economically in the Southwest, but perhaps not in the Southeast.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1278356782600073218


----------



## merenguemom

Anyone know if Galaxy or LAFC are fielding U19 teams?  Sounders cancelled U19 and released players back into the wild.  Timbers and Whitecaps potentially the same.


----------



## SBFDad

merenguemom said:


> Anyone know if Galaxy or LAFC are fielding U19 teams?  Sounders cancelled U19 and released players back into the wild.  Timbers and Whitecaps potentially the same.


All rumor at this point, but talk is U23s after the current USL season. It would be a reserve league with teams traveling with the first teams. Time will tell.


----------



## Traore

merenguemom said:


> Anyone know if Galaxy or LAFC are fielding U19 teams?  Sounders cancelled U19 and released players back into the wild.  Timbers and Whitecaps potentially the same.


Other MLS clubs are deciding whether to field U19 teams.  They would have to play in the EA league or some non_MLS league.

Minnesota scrapped their academy altogether.


----------



## jpeter

merenguemom said:


> Anyone know if Galaxy or LAFC are fielding U19 teams?  Sounders cancelled U19 and released players back into the wild.  Timbers and Whitecaps potentially the same.


LAFC yes on U19 as far is which league TBA.

Galaxy haven't heard but why won't they?

U19 is really for players that have first team potential.  Maybe not ready for USL contracts just since the are still in school.  Not time for college yet for 03's or younger and most of the 02's are off to college so not a good fit for them.


----------



## jpeter

Traore said:


> Other MLS clubs are deciding whether to field U19 teams.  They would have to play in the EA league or some non_MLS league.
> 
> Minnesota scrapped their academy altogether.


No on the EA league it's Cal South not going to happen, there are USL and possibly MLS-EYDP U19 play & offerings.

Still early and things will eventually get settled in the next 8 weeks or so.  By mid August there should be a clearer picture if covid19 doesn't detail things anymore.


----------



## jpeter

3leches said:


> Outside clubs are practicing at Dignity already. Still no word from Galaxy when training will restart.


Are you referring to  "soccer camps" with drills and distancing?   That's not my idea of practicing but if it's the only way why not?


----------



## Husky13

MLS has instructed academies to hold off on commencing training due to uncertainty/rising CV-19 caseload.


----------



## jpeter

Husky13 said:


> MLS has instructed academies to hold off on commencing training due to uncertainty/rising CV-19 caseload.


In what markets? Any duration noted?

USL is starting games in a couple weeks and been practicing for weeks.

Nothing surprised me anymore as the 3rd week of July restart for around here was the tentative target although I understand that was not universal or a nation wide deal.


----------



## Traore

Our coach has training to resume late July and league games to begin 9/12.


----------



## Husky13

jpeter said:


> In what markets? Any duration noted?
> 
> USL is starting games in a couple weeks and been practicing for weeks.
> 
> Nothing surprised me anymore as the 3rd week of July restart for around here was the tentative target although I understand that was not universal or a nation wide deal.


All we heard is academies are not allowed to begin training next week, with no specific return to play date set.  Actually no reasons provided either, the reason I cited in my last post was speculation on my part.

ECNL clubs around us have been training for weeks.


----------



## Dargle

Husky13 said:


> All we heard is academies are not allowed to begin training next week, with no specific return to play date set.  Actually no reasons provided either, the reason I cited in my last post was speculation on my part.
> 
> ECNL clubs around us have been training for weeks.


non-MLS clubs in the MLS league have also been training for weeks (at least under camp protocols), so perhaps this only applies to the academies of MLS clubs.


----------



## SBFDad

Dargle said:


> non-MLS clubs in the MLS league have also been training for weeks (at least under camp protocols), so perhaps this only applies to the academies of MLS clubs.


Motivation is different for pay to play clubs. Get back to it ASAP so you can justify the fees. MLS academies have the luxury of slow rolling since they have a (mostly) captive audience that can’t complain that they aren’t getting their money’s worth.


----------



## SBFDad

Traore said:


> Our coach has training to resume late July and league games to begin 9/12.


Team?


----------



## Dargle

SBFDad said:


> Motivation is different for pay to play clubs. Get back to it ASAP so you can justify the fees. MLS academies have the luxury of slow rolling since they have a (mostly) captive audience that can’t complain that they aren’t getting their money’s worth.


True, although some of those clubs subsidize fully or partially their top teams. My sense is that the non-MLS clubs' interest in re-opening is mostly about their other teams that are pay-to-play, but for their top teams in the MLS league the benefit is being able to bring in tryout players to at least see them in person.  There are a decent number of players on former DA teams that moved to ECNL who are looking around at teams in the MLS league.


----------



## RedDevilDad

Dargle said:


> There are a decent number of players on former DA teams that moved to ECNL who are looking around at teams in the MLS league.


and ECNL clubs start registering players 7/1 with a season projected start date of 9/12. Surf Cup for youngers registration is 7/12 but MLS clubs aren’t returning till 7/20. Bit of an awkward position for parents and players on the move...


----------



## Traore

Inter Miami got rid of their U19.  I wonder how many MLS clubs will carry a U19.


----------



## lafalafa

Traore said:


> Inter Miami got rid of their U19.  I wonder how many MLS clubs will carry a U19.


Miami or any of the recent expansion teams don't have have much invested in training players for many years and seeing them walk away.  However, the others would like to see a return on the investments and need a bridge between the Academy, USL, and the the first team.

U19 which is really mainly u18 since most 2002 are college age will be used by some to play u17 up also. These are the players that have potential beyond the academy leagues.

I expect some of the MLS U19 teams to play in the USL leagues in spring, vs international teams, and the MLS homegrown league in the fall to start.  The Non-MLS have u19 also so should be teams to play locally and that was always going to be the case with only 2 MLS.


----------



## Traore

I don’t understand the rationale for focusing on U15 and U17 only.  How can clubs be so certain which kids are deserving of homegrown contracts by age 16?

Most kids playing U19 will be 17 year olds.  Move 17 year olds up to play USL?  USL championship, USL 1 and USL 2 are not the strongest leagues but they are filled with international players, former MLS players and former college players.  Very few 17 year old DA kids can effectively compete against adults in the USL.


----------



## MacDre

Traore said:


> Very few 17 year old DA kids can effectively compete against adults in the USL.


I think the rationale is that if the kid has not stood out by 17 it’s highly unlikely that it will ever happen.  The “very few 17 year old’s” are the only kids the teams care about because they are the only ones with professional potential.


----------



## lafalafa

Traore said:


> I don’t understand the rationale for focusing on U15 and U17 only.  How can clubs be so certain which kids are deserving of homegrown contracts by age 16?
> 
> Most kids playing U19 will be 17 year olds.  Move 17 year olds up to play USL?  USL championship, USL 1 and USL 2 are not the strongest leagues but they are filled with international players, former MLS players and former college players.  Very few 17 year old DA kids can effectively compete against adults in the USL.


USL A league starts in Spring 2021.

If you haven't stood out already MLS not going to continue investing or is interested in a u19 that's hasn't.


----------



## Traore

Seems harsh. So kids have until 16 to show they have pro quality. If they have it by 16, there may be a viable future for professional soccer.  If they do not show this by 16, then they better have a Plan B.


----------



## lafalafa

Traore said:


> Seems harsh. So kids have until 16 to show they have pro quality. If they have it by 16, there may be a viable future for professional soccer.  If they do not show this by 16, then they better have a Plan B.


Always pretty much been that way, nothing really new.

There are two tracks, play club soccer move  to college ball as the goal and priority.

Play in the best league you can find, hopefully get noticed by some of the professional organizations;  get on a team, perform,  get promoted or not. At 16-17  plan b for those is to get accepted to a good college and continue to play,  move on to college ball as the next step.

If college play is yours players goal Non-MLS or one  leagues that cater to college showcases are likely a better fit.

Even with the inhouse academy HS substitute programs most of the players leave to college and maybe 2-3 per class go the USL or pro route instead of college.  The odds are long to be one of very few that continue on even after your a u19.


----------



## Husky13

lafalafa said:


> Always pretty much been that way, nothing really new.
> 
> There are two tracks, play club soccer move  to college ball as the goal and priority.
> 
> Play in the best league you can find, hopefully get noticed by some of the professional organizations;  get on a team, perform,  get promoted or not. At 16-17  plan b for those is to get accepted to a good college and continue to play,  move
> 
> There are two tracks, play club soccer move  to college ball as the goal and priority.
> 
> If college play is yours players goal Non-MLS or one  leagues that cater to college showcases are likely a better fit.
> If college play is yours players goal Non-MLS or one  leagues that cater to college showcases are likely a better fit.
> 
> Even with the inhouse academy HS substitute programs most of the players leave to college and maybe 2-3 per class go the USL or pro route instead of college.  The odds are long to be one of very few that continue on even after your a u19.


----------



## Husky13

lafalafa said:


> Always pretty much been that way, nothing really new.
> 
> There are two tracks, play club soccer move  to college ball as the goal and priority.
> 
> Play in the best league you can find, hopefully get noticed by some of the professional organizations;  get on a team, perform,  get promoted or not. At 16-17  plan b for those is to get accepted to a good college and continue to play,  move on to college ball as the next step.
> 
> If college play is yours players goal Non-MLS or one  leagues that cater to college showcases are likely a better fit.
> 
> Even with the inhouse academy HS substitute programs most of the players leave to college and maybe 2-3 per class go the USL or pro route instead of college.  The odds are long to be one of very few that continue on even after your a u19.


I mostly agree, except the path to the top college programs has also been the MLS academies over the past several years. Now with the U19 teams being dropped, how does that pathway change? Some kids will have college scholarship commitments by the end of U17, but many won’t (particularly since boys recruiting is later than girls).

I don’t think the elimination of MLS U19 teams means that going to a local non-MLS ECNL club is now a better path to college.  There will still be a perception that the better players are with MLS academies (through U17).

it may be hard for U17 MLS academy “graduates” to find a home at ECNL clubs for their last 1-2 years.  Won’t those ECNL clubs favor kids who have been paying customers over the years?


----------



## MacDre

Husky13 said:


> I mostly agree, except the path to the top college programs has also been the MLS academies over the past several years. Now with the U19 teams being dropped, how does that pathway change? Some kids will have college scholarship commitments by the end of U17, but many won’t (particularly since boys recruiting is later than girls).
> 
> I don’t think the elimination of MLS U19 teams means that going to a local non-MLS ECNL club is now a better path to college.  There will still be a perception that the better players are with MLS academies (through U17).
> 
> it may be hard for U17 MLS academy “graduates” to find a home at ECNL clubs for their last 1-2 years.  Won’t those ECNL clubs favor kids who have been paying customers over the years?


I doubt it.  Clubs will favor the kids that will bring them the most publicity.  If I were a college coach, I’d be most interested in the demographic that almost made it in the MLS academy because they “should” be the highest rated recruits.
No loyalty in this game patna.  You’ve got to “get in where you fit in.”


----------



## mid10

Boston Bolts director: New MLS youth league eyes mid-September start
					

The tentative date would mark the official start of Major League Soccer’s new youth platform, which formally emerged in mid-May.




					www.nesoccerjournal.com


----------



## lafalafa

Husky13 said:


> I mostly agree, except the path to the top college programs has also been the MLS academies over the past several years. Now with the U19 teams being dropped, how does that pathway change? Some kids will have college scholarship commitments by the end of U17, but many won’t (particularly since boys recruiting is later than girls).
> 
> I don’t think the elimination of MLS U19 teams means that going to a local non-MLS ECNL club is now a better path to college.  There will still be a perception that the better players are with MLS academies (through U17).
> 
> it may be hard for U17 MLS academy “graduates” to find a home at ECNL clubs for their last 1-2 years.  Won’t those ECNL clubs favor kids who have been paying customers over the years?


There is only a very limited number of MLS academies, only two in all of SoCal for the hundreds of players that end up going on to play college from the area.  MLS is not in the youth academy business to develop college players, so it's not a focus for them.

Out the 40 odd players that eventually graduation out of u19 from those academies college opportunities are there if they have the grades. For the hundreds of other players  u18/19 they need something else.

During u17 year players should get good indicators if they have potential to keep going on the MLS pathway, are they playing up? Training center invites, training with the 1st  or 2nd teams etc.   If not they can decide which way might fit them the best?

No one size fits all or the best path it's all relative but like you said if you can stick one with club instead of bouncing around that could be beneficial in some cases.


----------



## MacDre

lafalafa said:


> There is only a very limited number of MLS academies, only two in all of SoCal for the hundreds of players that end up going on to play college from the area.  MLS is not in the youth academy business to develop college players, so it's not a focus for them.
> 
> Out the 40 odd players that eventually graduation out of u19 from those academies college opportunities are there if they have the grades. For the hundreds of other players  u18/19 they need something else.
> 
> During u17 year players should get good indicators if they have potential to keep going on the MLS pathway, are they playing up? Training center invites, training with the 1st  or 2nd teams etc.   If not they can decide which way might fit them the best?
> 
> No one size fits all or the best path it's all relative but like you said if you can stick one with club instead of bouncing around that could be beneficial in some cases.


I actually think the process is a little more cutthroat than your comment suggest.  At my kids club they are evaluating which 2008 boys will make the academy.  If you don’t make the U15 squad your chances are also slim of breaking into the academy at U17.  So I think the funnel will narrow substantially at ages 13-14.


----------



## lafalafa

MacDre said:


> I actually think the process is a little more cutthroat than your comment suggest.  At my kids club they are evaluating which 2008 boys will make the academy.  If you don’t make the U15 squad your chances are also slim of breaking into the academy at U17.  So I think the funnel will narrow substantially at ages 13-14.


Yeah agree I wasn't referring to breaking in at u17 only being evaluated at u17 once your already on one of the squad's


----------



## Copa9

46n2 said:


> San Diego division of DA was a joke , they can have all them teams


Someone sounds bitter.


----------



## younothat

If you're on the MLS track or thinking beyond college in today's Liverpool Premiere match:

Jones is a 2001 19 year old that scored
Elliot is a 2003 17 yr old
Williams is another 2001 19 year old that was on the roster.

If the MLS doesn't starting giving more opportunities to younger players why spend the millions on their academies?


----------



## messy

younothat said:


> If you're on the MLS track or thinking beyond college in today's Liverpool Premiere match:
> 
> Jones is a 2001 19 year old that scored
> Elliot is a 2003 17 yr old
> Williams is another 2001 19 year old that was on the roster.
> 
> If the MLS doesn't starting giving more opportunities to younger players why spend the millions on their academies?


I know a 15-yr-old that I expect will take the field at some point during the July tournament in Orlando. 
At least one club is doing it.


----------



## Husky13

They sign these kids to contracts, with kits of fanfare, and then the kids barely play.  How is that good for them and for the long-term growth of the league?  Developing homegrown stars would generate far more interest in MLS among fans.

Part of the problem is our MLS academies choose the wrong kids, and when they reach this age they are exposed and can’t win playing time.  Our genius academy coaches latch onto kids at age 12 who reach puberty first, but they predictably flatten out.  One of the rising star prospects in our YNT circuit, who plays midfield, can’t even head check and has no idea what he is going to do with the ball when he receives it.  But, coaches liked his performance when he was young (based largely on size and reasonable - but not great - technical skills), and they are now invested to prove their decision was right.


----------



## messy

Husky13 said:


> They sign these kids to contracts, with kits of fanfare, and then the kids barely play.  How is that good for them and for the long-term growth of the league?  Developing homegrown stars would generate far more interest in MLS among fans.
> 
> Part of the problem is our MLS academies choose the wrong kids, and when they reach this age they are exposed and can’t win playing time.  Our genius academy coaches latch onto kids at age 12 who reach puberty first, but they predictably flatten out.  One of the rising star prospects in our YNT circuit, who plays midfield, can’t even head check and has no idea what he is going to do with the ball when he receives it.  But, coaches liked his performance when he was young (based largely on size and reasonable - but not great - technical skills), and they are now invested to prove their decision was right.


That’s a big mistake I notice too often. Someone will say “he’s only an 06 and he plays up and blah blah blah” and you see a kid with hair on his legs and full muscle tone and pretty much have to say “Next. By 16-17 he won’t keep up.” But they lock in and ignore the little underdeveloped really good players (eg Messi or Griesemann, etc).


----------



## Kante

Per the Athletic, Ivy League set to announce all Fall sports moving to Spring 2021. 









						Ivy League’s impending decision could be a ‘big domino’ for college football
					

As concern grows about the viability of the season starting on schedule, this week could help set a precedent.




					theathletic.com


----------



## lafalafa

Kante said:


> Per the Athletic, Ivy League set to announce all Fall sports moving to Spring 2021.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ivy League’s impending decision could be a ‘big domino’ for college football
> 
> 
> As concern grows about the viability of the season starting on schedule, this week could help set a precedent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theathletic.com


At our LA county high school same times of thing has been in discussion.   Football practicing not starting yet so there going to make a determination to push back or reschedule next couple weeks.

Instead of being a winter sport HS soccer moved to Spring was talked about but I dunno how that would work if football is in the spring also now, winter pushback for football was the earier discussion.

Whatever happens to HS soccer will be determined somewhat by what goes for football so guess we will have to wait to see?


----------



## watfly

We were told today that our first MLS League game is scheduled for September 12.


----------



## gkmom

watfly said:


> We were told today that our first MLS League game is scheduled for September 12.


Do you know if there is a published schedule?


----------



## jpeter

gkmom said:


> Do you know if there is a published schedule?


No there is not

I won't be surprised if the first level MLS teams start up league play next spring which has been discussed as a option. There really trying to align with the first teams as best as possible.

For Non-MLS fall,  the latest tentative start form two weeks ago was Sept 12 that one of the spokespersons talked about it was quoted in a article.


----------



## Traore

Clubs have their schedules with opponents penciled in, but nothing published so far.  The MLS teams are mixed with non MLS teams, as far as I can tell.


----------



## jpeter

Now you know why spring 2021 was in the conversation, wish it were different but:


----------



## SBFDad

jpeter said:


> Now you know why spring 2021 was in the conversation, wish it were different but:


This feels like a new restriction, but I don’t think it is. I see this as the state asserting its authority on previous guidance (or lack of). This “camp” approach was a loophole OC used. Looks like they got their hand slapped. I wish it would’ve stuck, but the governor has been threatening enforcement lately and here it is. Unfortunate, but now all of SoCal has to wait for state level guidance specific to youth sports. Still hopeful, but a little less so each day that passes with no plan.


----------



## Ellejustus

SBFDad said:


> This feels like a new restriction, but I don’t think it is. I see this as the state asserting its authority on previous guidance (or lack of). This “camp” approach was a loophole OC used. Looks like they got their *hand slapped.* I wish it would’ve stuck, but the governor has been threatening enforcement lately and here it is. Unfortunate, but now all of SoCal has to wait for state level guidance specific to youth sports. Still hopeful, but a little less so each day that passes with no plan.


More like this.....bitch!!!!


----------



## jpeter

SBFDad said:


> This feels like a new restriction, but I don’t think it is. I see this as the state asserting its authority on previous guidance (or lack of). This “camp” approach was a loophole OC used. Looks like they got their hand slapped. I wish it would’ve stuck, but the governor has been threatening enforcement lately and here it is. Unfortunate, but now all of SoCal has to wait for state level guidance specific to youth sports. Still hopeful, but a little less so each day that passes with no plan.


The MLS clubs where adapt enough not to jump the gun so they obviously have been considering other options, plan b, etc so I have hope they will figure somethings out. What, when, where are the questions now? 

The MLS "is back" tournament started day so I'm optimistic, going to be different whatever happens.


----------



## watfly

SBFDad said:


> This feels like a new restriction, but I don’t think it is. I see this as the state asserting its authority on previous guidance (or lack of). This “camp” approach was a loophole OC used. Looks like they got their hand slapped. I wish it would’ve stuck, but the governor has been threatening enforcement lately and here it is. Unfortunate, but now all of SoCal has to wait for state level guidance specific to youth sports. Still hopeful, but a little less so each day that passes with no plan.


It's a slap on the hand to the individual Counties' leadership, but a backhand to the face of our youth.  Practices under day camp guidance have been operating for a month now with the implied consent of the State with zero evidence of spread or breakouts.  "Here kid, here is a piece of candy.  Yum, doesn't that taste good? NOW SPIT IT OUT!"  Meanwhile, drinking establishments have been proven sources of the spread, but Newsom's winery remains open.  Please spare me the argument that Napa Valley is doing well and that's why he hasn't closed his winery.  He exerts his closure power over the whole state and every county while usurping the authority of County leadership whenever he finds it convenient.   The good news is that San Diego is holding firm right now with youth practice under Day Camp guidance...we will see how long that lasts.

In response to the questions regarding the start of the MLS league, I don't know anything other than that's when it supposed to start.  I'm not holding my breath but at some point the league had to post a starting date.


----------



## Ellejustus

watfly said:


> It's a slap on the hand to the individual Counties' leadership, but a backhand to the face of our youth.  Practices under day camp guidance have been operating for a month now with the implied consent of the State with zero evidence of spread or breakouts.  "Here kid, here is a piece of candy.  Yum, doesn't that taste good? NOW SPIT IT OUT!"  Meanwhile, drinking establishments have been proven sources of the spread, but Newsom's winery remains open.  Please spare me the argument that Napa Valley is doing well and that's why he hasn't closed his winery.  He exerts his closure power over the whole state and every county while usurping the authority of County leadership whenever he finds it convenient.   The good news is that San Diego is holding firm right now with youth practice under Day Camp guidance...we will see how long that lasts.
> 
> In response to the questions regarding the start of the MLS league, I don't know anything other than that's when it supposed to start.  I'm not holding my breath but at some point the league had to post a starting date.


This is wear we r at.  Someone with balls needs to test this BS!!  Let's go San Diego.  Let's have a all star game played in 4 weeks.


----------



## jpeter

Next week's tentative restart for MLS practice has been pushed back to TBA in Socal.

Please Update if you have info to share or if the other markets are doing things differently?


----------



## clsafe

jpeter said:


> Next week's tentative restart for MLS practice has been pushed back to TBA in Socal.
> 
> Please Update if you have info to share or if the other markets are doing things differently?


Sounders also don't have an official start date for in person training.


----------



## RedDevilDad

jpeter said:


> Next week's tentative restart for MLS practice has been pushed back to TBA in Socal.
> 
> Please Update if you have info to share or if the other markets are doing things differently?


Now pushed back to 8/3.  Deciding on in-person or virtual at a later date.


----------



## texanincali

I’m am hearing direct from some non MLS clubs that they have had no communication with MLS about the league.  Some have gone as far as scheduling 10-15 friendlies in the fall just so their teams can get some game time.  They are tired of waiting around for MLS so they are taking matters into their own hands.


----------



## Deadpool Soccer

texanincali said:


> I’m am hearing direct from some non MLS clubs that they have had no communication with MLS about the league.  Some have gone as far as scheduling 10-15 friendlies in the fall just so their teams can get some game time.  They are tired of waiting around for MLS so they are taking matters into their own hands.


Interviews via Zoom with MLS happened last week for new clubs who applied. Rejection emails began going out this week.


----------



## jpeter

Deadpool Soccer said:


> Interviews via Zoom with MLS happened last week for new clubs who applied. Rejection emails began going out this week.


How many additional clubs applied?

 In socal those would have to be in other leagues also I would think?


----------



## full90

So what boys clubs in San Diego and Orange County are training? Camps or not whatever they are calling it, who is training?


----------



## watfly

full90 said:


> So what boys clubs in San Diego and Orange County are training? Camps or not whatever they are calling it, who is training?


Every MLS League or ECNL club is practicing in San Diego.  No clue about the OC.


----------



## messy

watfly said:


> Every MLS League or ECNL club is practicing in San Diego.  No clue about the OC.


The MLS teams here ain’t talking yet...was to be late July but pushed indefinitely.


----------



## jpeter

If the MLS clubs play home games in the fall the youth league is likely to follow permitting restrictions.  

If not late Feb/Spring will be the start of league along with USL A and HS.

Neither of the local MLS youth sides have been group in person training, besides some more virtual stuff staring up when school does there are only TBA dates so far.

US soccer federation came out with the final return to play calling for 7-12weeks before competition starts back up.  Assuming that is followed which I think it will be by October is the best case for start of play.


----------



## jpeter

messy said:


> The MLS teams here ain’t talking yet...was to be late July but pushed indefinitely.


5 clubs or whatever doing drills in another county doesn't really do anything to move the process along.  

We need youth sports guidance from the state to keep moving forward and open more facilities open.  Most local public owned facilities just won't open unless the counties, local authorities give there blessings.


----------



## watfly

watfly said:


> Every MLS League or ECNL club is practicing in San Diego.  No clue about the OC.


I should note that SD teams are practicing with the approval of the County health director.  The teams are not going rouge.


----------



## Banana Hammock

Even SD teams that use public school fields are getting their permits.


----------



## messy

jpeter said:


> If the MLS clubs play home games in the fall the youth league is likely to follow permitting restrictions.
> 
> If not late Feb/Spring will be the start of league along with USL A and HS.
> 
> Neither of the local MLS youth sides have been group in person training, besides some more virtual stuff staring up when school does there are only TBA dates so far.
> 
> US soccer federation came out with the final return to play calling for 7-12weeks before competition starts back up.  Assuming that is followed which I think it will be by October is the best case for start of play.


that would be great. just some definite time frame, please...
that would mean starting practice in september, which is only a month away.


----------



## watfly

Banana Hammock said:


> Even SD teams that use public school fields are getting their permits.


We've just had to sign a lot of waivers to do so, which I'm 100% OK with.  I mentioned this before, but were at public school, public park and city property with exclusive lease.  At least for now.


----------



## Deadpool Soccer

Got a message the Diablo Valley Heritage Wolves (Norcal) was declined. Any others?


----------



## Deadpool Soccer

Hello Club Directors

First and foremost, thank you for your interest in the Elite Youth Development Platform. We appreciate the effort that you and your staff spent to prepare your application and the energy you brought to our discussions. 

A quick update that as of 7 pm ET this evening, we have completed the expansion club interviews. The MLS Player Development Department will review all of the applications over the next few days. During our evaluation process, we may need to reach out to you for additional information. Our goal is to communicate final admissions decisions for the upcoming season by mid to late next week.

Thank you for your interest in the EYDP and we will be in touch very soon.

Player Development
Major League Soccer
www.MLSsoccer.com


----------



## RedDevilDad

MNUFC parents told they should know more league details this week....  
for what that's worth.


----------



## jpeter

Yikes and my son is friends with one of the players (negative so far)









						Galaxy suspend training as 11 from USL team test positive for coronavirus
					

The Galaxy have suspended training and increased COVID-19 testing after 11 members of its USL Championship affiliate tested positive for the virus.




					www.yahoo.com
				




Sacramento, San Diego, and Orange County have also suspended games or practice in the meantime.


----------



## WuTang

Has anyone seen a list of the new Clubs that are being added? I heard it is suppose to be coming out soon.


----------



## VegasParent

WuTang said:


> Has anyone seen a list of the new Clubs that are being added? I heard it is suppose to be coming out soon.


Just released








						Major League Soccer adds 19 clubs to elite player development platform | MLSSoccer.com
					

MLS elite youth development platform expands to 113 clubs




					www.mlssoccer.com


----------



## Traore

Not exactly powerhouse boys programs.  I wonder what is the criteria.


----------



## Dargle

Traore said:


> Not exactly powerhouse boys programs.  I wonder what is the criteria.


Seems to be focused on geography.  Most center around areas where there are MLS teams and the local playing circuit could be beefed up.  Northern California, Houston, DC area, New York/New Jersey/New England, Michigan (within reach of both Chicago and Columbus), Atlanta/Louisville/Florida.

As for quality, I think there is an "if we build it they will come" attitude.  You already hear about this in Southern California with players from some of the former DA teams that went to Boys ECNL reportedly trying out for teams in the MLS league.  They also mentioned reaching under-served communities, which makes it sound like one or more of these clubs specifically serve that purpose.


----------



## 3leches

Traore said:


> Not exactly powerhouse boys programs.  I wonder what is the criteria.


I agree


----------



## lafalafa

So who has any updates on this league or how training is going?

Our non MLS club is back training but what about the MLS sides that are local?  

Is LAFC back at virtual training? 

What about Galaxy?  In person training going on or planned in the near future for either MLS club?


----------



## NOVA.Dad

Does the MLS Elite Development League have an official website?  I can't seem to find one.

Thanks


----------



## RedDevilDad

lafalafa said:


> Is LAFC back at virtual training?


No league-wide updates.  LAFC is confirmed virtual for remainder of August. 



NOVA.Dad said:


> Does the MLS Elite Development League have an official website?


There does not appear to be an official web site outside of some MLS site hosted blog posts about applications, etc.


----------



## messy

RedDevilDad said:


> No league-wide updates.  LAFC is confirmed virtual for remainder of August.
> 
> 
> There does not appear to be an official web site outside of some MLS site hosted blog posts about applications, etc.


At this point, I'm afraid that I wouldn't expect the LA MLS academies to be competing in 2020 at all.


----------



## Dargle

Here’s a little news about a central office hire for the MLS youth league


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1294741743552860166


----------



## jpeter

messy said:


> At this point, I'm afraid that I wouldn't expect the LA MLS academies to be competing in 2020 at all.


Let's hope for some competitions for the fall.

In the Southwest league maybe not start until 2021 unless guidance is changed soon but perhaps in other parts league will get going sooner?

The CA guidance will likely need to be updated or changed before the high profile MLS locals get back to in person group training. they really don't have much of an incentive to do distant training in person with masks.

Seeing how Sept is the earliest that MLS sides are even considering a return to training, competition is 8 weeks out+ if the the Ussf guidelines are followed the prospect of a fall season are dimming for those sides.  Starting the league in the SW without the MLS sides is possible but doubtful.

The Galaxy has been very quiet with little to no info release and some have been grumbling that there interests with the youth market or this league in not great.   Anybody's have a opinion on that?  They were stung a bit with the outbreak with the 2 team and might be bit reluctant now to proceed until things settle down more.

Hopefully the Non-MLS participants can get together to have some sort of events if the league part doesn't starts until 2021.


----------



## Dargle

jpeter said:


> Let's hope for some competitions for the fall.
> 
> In the Southwest league maybe not start until 2021 unless guidance is changed soon but perhaps in other parts league will get going sooner?
> 
> The CA guidance will likely need to be updated or changed before the high profile MLS locals get back to in person group training. they really don't have much of an incentive to do distant training in person with masks.
> 
> Seeing how Sept is the earliest that MLS sides are even considering a return to training, competition is 8 weeks out+ if the the Ussf guidelines are followed the prospect of a fall season are dimming for those sides.  Starting the league in the SW without the MLS sides is possible but doubtful.
> 
> The Galaxy has been very quiet with little to no info release and some have been grumbling that there interests with the youth market or this league in not great.   Anybody's have a opinion on that?  They were stung a bit with the outbreak with the 2 team and might be bit reluctant now to proceed until things settle down more.
> 
> Hopefully the Non-MLS participants can get together to have some sort of events if the league part doesn't starts until 2021.


If scrimmages or games are permitted for anyone in Southern California during the fall, I have no doubt that the MLS League teams not affiliated with MLS clubs will schedule things. They have basically all been up and running socially distanced practices for awhile and many are starting to finalize rosters.


----------



## Dargle

Traore said:


> Not exactly powerhouse boys programs.  I wonder what is the criteria.


Here is an article about Sheriff's FC and why it was invited to participate in the MLS League at U13 and U14.  They are clearly trying to widen the net beyond the "powerhouse" programs as a way to improve scouting and access.  Pretty smart.  There are probably too many kingmaker clubs as it is.









						How two Northern California clubs are looking to change the conversation on youth development | Charles Boehm | MLSSoccer.com
					

Two clubs changing the youth narrative




					www.mlssoccer.com


----------



## 3leches

Galaxy is not interested in the youth league, imo.
They have started school an age group earlier. this year but also have slashed the rosters across all age groups by at least 30 kids in total and have given out virtual soccer assignments. There is no rush for them to get back to training because they can retain all their players unlike non-MLS clubs plus the competition is not great , ECNL looks like a stronger league.
It is no secret that Galaxy has been struggling for a while financially and with no real MLS income, the kids are on the back burner.


----------



## watfly

3leches said:


> Galaxy is not interested in the youth league, imo.
> They have started school an age group earlier. this year but also have slashed the rosters across all age groups by at least 30 kids in total and have given out virtual soccer assignments. There is no rush for them to get back to training because they can retain all their players unlike non-MLS clubs plus the competition is not great , ECNL looks like a stronger league.
> It is no secret that Galaxy has been struggling for a while financially and with no real MLS income, the kids are on the back burner.


Galaxy has had very little success with developing homegrown players and I don't know how much effort they've put into it, but I believe it is significantly less (based upon what I've seen) than teams like RSL and Philly (and I assume FC Dallas) which have very successful youth programs.  The academic schools associated with RSL, and particularly Philly, are much higher quality than the online education that LA Galaxy offers.


----------



## Emilio Castro

3leches said:


> Galaxy is not interested in the youth league, imo.
> They have started school an age group earlier. this year but also have slashed the rosters across all age groups by at least 30 kids in total and have given out virtual soccer assignments. There is no rush for them to get back to training because they can retain all their players unlike non-MLS clubs plus the competition is not great , ECNL looks like a stronger league.
> It is no secret that Galaxy has been struggling for a while financially and with no real MLS income, the kids are on the back burner.


I wonder why parents/players specially from FCGS, RSC & Pats, are cramming out the try out lists from LAUFA & TFA
Look at the Glendale Complex and be ready for a big surprise.


----------



## 3leches

Emilio Castro said:


> I wonder why parents/players specially from FCGS, RSC & Pats, are cramming out the try out lists from LAUFA & TFA
> Look at the Glendale Complex and be ready for a big surprise.


What this in reference to the ECNL comment?
Well, we all know the answer the name" MLS" league which is supposed to make it superior to other leagues. Look my kid is at an mls academy and I can tell you we know nothing and they would rather practice than play a non mls squad. The theory that it would make scouting easier is non sense, you don't need a league for that they need to hire more scouts,


----------



## Advantage

lots of former tfa parents wanting to come back 
MLS League should have the best competition


----------



## messy

Advantage said:


> lots of former tfa parents wanting to come back
> MLS League should have the best competition


Come hell or high water, TFA always delivers a top-quality program for the kids.


----------



## lafalafa

Emilio Castro said:


> I wonder why parents/players specially from FCGS, RSC & Pats, are cramming out the try out lists from LAUFA & TFA
> Look at the Glendale Complex and be ready for a big surprise.


Have to limit the number of players out each session for sure so invite only at this point but yeah lots of Interest even if it's pretty late.  Golden State was out there also up into recently,.they moved out to Chino I was told.


----------



## full90

So who from so cal is going to the Barca friendlies in Arizona over Labor Day weekend?


----------



## Traore

Emilio Castro said:


> I wonder why parents/players specially from FCGS, RSC & Pats, are cramming out the try out lists from LAUFA & TFA
> Look at the Glendale Complex and be ready for a big surprise.


TFA and LAUFA have up to U14 only, like when they were in the DA?


----------



## funkedrumma

Traore said:


> TFA and LAUFA have up to U14 only, like when they were in the DA?


No they will have U15 and U16 and I saw U17 out there Saturday


----------



## lafalafa

funkedrumma said:


> No they will have U15 and U16 and I saw U17 out there Saturday


Both clubs have u13-u19 teams planned for MLS-EYDP


----------



## Dargle

lafalafa said:


> Both clubs have u13-u19 teams planned for MLS-EYDP


I believe LA Surf has at least U13-U17 for MLS_EYDP as well, perhaps with authorization to grow to U19 next year too.  Only returning DA clubs where I have seen specific limits are Santa Barbara (U13-U14 - not sure they applied for older age groups) and some of the new expansion clubs that weren't previously in DA.


----------



## Husky13

Sounders Academy has started training.


----------



## 3leches

how much are non MLS team charging to play in this league ? I thought the fee was $ 500 but a friend told me non MLS team is charging $ 1900.00


----------



## lafalafa

Husky13 said:


> Sounders Academy has started training.


Good to hear and word on when your game play or scheduling will be released or start? 



3leches said:


> how much are non MLS team charging to play in this league ? I thought the fee was $ 500 but a friend told me non MLS team is charging $ 1900.00


If you're talking about club+ team fees it's thousands for the SD teams according to my sons friends.   The league fees are around 2k we where told.

How many teams or players have actually register with MLS-EYDP and not just Cal South since they don't sanction this league but do for the other offshoot the EA league which hasn't released any info or scheduling either.

We are training weekly but still very little info about scheduling or games in the near future.  

How about the local MLS teams, any updates? Still virtual or are there plans for on person for Sept?    Galaxy school on-line but not in person? What about training? 

Kind of use our local MLS clubs as a gauge when there back in person think we're closer to having something for the fall.


----------



## watfly

lafalafa said:


> Good to hear and word on when your game play or scheduling will be released or start?
> 
> 
> 
> If you're talking about club+ team fees it's thousands for the SD teams according to my sons friends.   The league fees are around 2k we where told.
> 
> How many teams or players have actually register with MLS-EYDP and not just Cal South since they don't sanction this league but do for the other offshoot the EA league which hasn't released any info or scheduling either.
> 
> We are training weekly but still very little info about scheduling or games in the near future.
> 
> How about the local MLS teams, any updates? Still virtual or are there plans for on person for Sept?    Galaxy school on-line but not in person? What about training?
> 
> Kind of use our local MLS clubs as a gauge when there back in person think we're closer to having something for the fall.


Supposedly we're still scheduled for Sept 12 start in SD, but I don't think any of our coaches or DOC think it will happen.  We were told that for the first phase of the season that we would be playing the other SD MLS clubs plus Murrieta Surf, which would make sense.  As far as I know, all the SD MLS clubs are actively practicing in person.  We just moved from 4 1/2 hours of training a week to 8 hours apparently in anticipation that we might be playing in the next couple months.  I think that's wishful thinking, particularly in light of last Friday's event.  I just don't see any game play starting before 2021, but wouldn't be surprised to see some "rogue" scrimmages before then.


----------



## 3leches

We haven't started practicing yet not sure why and no other information has been released. Friends at LAFC received training gear but I haven't heard anything about actually practicing yet.  Old GS friend that plays for Surf now said they signed a Cal South form. I really don't think there will be league play until 2021.


----------



## watfly

For what its worth, our coach said our first game is November 14.  The usual caveats apply.


----------



## RedDevilDad

3leches said:


> We haven't started practicing yet not sure why and no other information has been released. Friends at LAFC received training gear but I haven't heard anything about actually practicing yet.  Old GS friend that plays for Surf now said they signed a Cal South form. I really don't think there will be league play until 2021.


LAFC starts Saturday in smaller cohorts, 2-3 cohorts per team.


----------



## RedDevilDad

youtube.com/watch?v=7RyG_z…Not sure what this means, but it's more interesting than the 100 and stupid degree temperatures...

RT: @SSAEliteSoccer
@MLS Elite Youth League ANNOUNCEMENT: Southern Soccer Academy is excited to join @mls tomorrow and share the launch of their NEW Elite Youth League! ⠀ Please use the link in our Bio and the launch party on Monday, SEP 7th at 3 PM ET


----------



## Dargle

RedDevilDad said:


> youtube.com/watch?v=7RyG_z…Not sure what this means, but it's more interesting than the 100 and stupid degree temperatures...
> RT: @SSAEliteSoccer
> @MLS Elite Youth League ANNOUNCEMENT: Southern Soccer Academy is excited to join @mls tomorrow and share the launch of their NEW Elite Youth League! ⠀ Please use the link in our Bio and the launch party on Monday, SEP 7th at 3 PM ET
> 
> 
> View attachment 8946


There are a few other other youth clubs in the MLS league promoting this on social media (none in SoCal), but not as many as you would expect given the big guns MLS is bringing out to speak on the program (Garner, Berhalter, Tyler Adams, Jordan Morris etc).  Not sure what to make of it.


----------



## watfly

RedDevilDad said:


> youtube.com/watch?v=7RyG_z…Not sure what this means, but it's more interesting than the 100 and stupid degree temperatures...
> RT: @SSAEliteSoccer
> @MLS Elite Youth League ANNOUNCEMENT: Southern Soccer Academy is excited to join @mls tomorrow and share the launch of their NEW Elite Youth League! ⠀ Please use the link in our Bio and the launch party on Monday, SEP 7th at 3 PM ET
> 
> 
> View attachment 8946


Nice production but low on substance.  I like the MLS Next branding.  Seems that MLS is serious about supporting it...cautiously optimistic.


----------



## jpeter

watfly said:


> Nice production but low on substance.  I like the MLS Next branding.  Seems that MLS is serious about supporting it...cautiously optimistic.


Marketing....pretty soon or maybe already your going to start to see stuff like..

Are you the next one...join us

The next big thing....join us

Next....fill in the blanks....come to tryouts

Anyway let's hope one of these days Socal youth can actually properly train as a team.

Nice to get new kits but hope my player actually gets to use them, see the whole team again at training and play without getting together privately in small numbers...that to me would be the real NEXT...


----------



## Desert Hound

watfly said:


> Seems that MLS is serious about supporting it...cautiously optimistic.


I bet you they do a better job vs US Soccer. 

MLS has a financial incentive..

-Get a good pipeline of players
- Expand the nationwide interest in soccer (more fans/tv revenue)
- etc. 

Hope it works.


----------



## watfly

Looks like over 50 teams from at least 16 states will be starting their MLS League play this weekend.


----------



## 3leches

Is there an online schedule?


----------



## Kante

3leches said:


> Is there an online schedule?





			https://league-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/elfinderimages/MLSNEXT/MLS-NEXT-Week1Schedule.pdf
		


Pretty big challenge for CA to not allow matches...


----------



## Dargle

watfly said:


> Looks like over 50 teams from at least 16 states will be starting their MLS League play this weekend.


Also, there's pretty clearly no line between MLS Academies and non-MLS clubs in terms of the opening weekend schedule.  Every single MLS team at the U15 and U17 age groups is playing a non-MLS club.  That may be a product of the pandemic and local travel being prioritized, but it certainly counters the narrative that the non-MLS clubs are playing in their own separate league in some age groups.


----------



## watfly

Dargle said:


> Also, there's pretty clearly no line between MLS Academies and non-MLS clubs in terms of the opening weekend schedule.  Every single MLS team at the U15 and U17 age groups is playing a non-MLS club.  That may be a product of the pandemic and local travel being prioritized, but it certainly counters the narrative that the non-MLS clubs are playing in their own separate league in some age groups.


My suspicion is that it has more to do with limiting travel given the pandemic.  Although even under normal circumstances its going to be tough to play MLS v. MLS on a consistent basis.  What little I've heard from our Club is that they will try to match up the better non-MLS with the MLS teams on a more regular basis.  The less competitive non-MLS teams may still play a MLS team just not as often as the better teams.


----------



## Kante

decent paper. three researchers from the Department of Public Health - Sport Science, Aarhus University in Denmark looked at potential Covid exposure modeled from 14 high level soccer matches.

Short version on their conclusion was that - if there was one infected player on the field for the length of the game - the other players would be exposed, on average, less than 90 seconds over the course of the match.

the caveats are that 1) presumably, if two infected players were on the field, the likely exposure would go up exponentially 2) depending on what position the infected player was playing, exposure time could be as high as close to five minutes.



			https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.26.20080614v1.full.pdf


----------



## messy

Kante said:


> https://league-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/elfinderimages/MLSNEXT/MLS-NEXT-Week1Schedule.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty big challenge for CA to not allow matches...


Matches? They're not yet even allowing contact training in the LA region. No scrimmaging, etc.


----------



## lafalafa

messy said:


> Matches? They're not yet even allowing contact training in the LA region. No scrimmaging, etc.


Reports of galaxy and LAFC training in orange county at irvine city college and other  places so I dunno maybe they will continue on outside of LA county? 

Can anyone confirm or share about what's going with the socal  MLS clubs training?

Now that we know the league with be called *MLS NEXT *and wearing the patches & logo let's hope for some movement on to the next phases.


----------



## BJ18

L


lafalafa said:


> Reports of galaxy and LAFC training in orange county at irvine city college and other  places so I dunno maybe they will continue on outside of LA county?
> 
> Can anyone confirm or share about what's going with the socal  MLS clubs training?
> 
> Now that we know the league with be called *MLS NEXT *and wearing the patches & logo let's hope for some movement on to the next phases.


LAFC has not trained in Orange County or anywhere besides Zoom.


----------



## watfly

messy said:


> Matches? They're not yet even allowing contact training in the LA region. No scrimmaging, etc.


SD County and some inland counties maybe by January.  LA County probably not  at least until after spring for matches since your not even allowed to have non-household members at your house indoors or outdoors.


----------



## RedDevilDad

BJ18 said:


> LAFC has not trained in Orange County or anywhere besides Zoom.


LAFC's first in-person training will be this Saturday 9/12. 

Also, re: where's schedule?
I'm assuming that will be in www.mlsplayerdevelopment.com portal through GotSoccer.


----------



## watfly

RedDevilDad said:


> LAFC's first in-person training will be this Saturday 9/12.
> 
> Also, re: where's schedule?
> I'm assuming that will be in www.mlsplayerdevelopment.com portal through GotSoccer.


Click on schedule https://www.mlssoccer.com/mlsnext/competitions

Actual PDF https://league-mp7static.mlsdigital.net/elfinderimages/MLSNEXT/MLS-NEXT-Week1Schedule.pdf


----------



## lafalafa

RedDevilDad said:


> LAFC's first in-person training will be this Saturday 9/12.
> 
> Also, re: where's schedule?
> I'm assuming that will be in www.mlsplayerdevelopment.com portal through GotSoccer.


Individual training for the MLS clubs but no group training yet is what I've heard some of which have been working out with different coaches or trainers as seen outside.

The air quality might be a hang up for this weekend but good to see at least a limited number of returners will get some group work in beyond the individual stuff.

There is a shake up or rethinking going on with the local MLS academies it appears so I wonder what direction they will go given the restrictions?  Some players are not waiting around it seems and there going to be less spend on these teams overall so wonder what that impact will be?


----------



## Kante

lafalafa said:


> Individual training for the MLS clubs but no group training yet is what I've heard some of which have been working out with different coaches or trainers as seen outside.
> 
> The air quality might be a hang up for this weekend but good to see at least a limited number of returners will get some group work in beyond the individual stuff.
> 
> There is a shake up or rethinking going on with the local MLS academies it appears so I wonder what direction they will go given the restrictions?  Some players are not waiting around it seems and there going to be less spend on these teams overall so wonder what that impact will be?


have heard a couple of the LAG 04s have been picked up by LAFC, and RSL 05s have added a fair number of significant players (spurred by recruitment efforts by the former Surf coach who went to RSL)

With LAG MLS 1 roster showing well recently with mostly CA players, and LAG 2 doing decent, and LAFC MLS starting to roster some of their 04s, seems like the dots could be connected for a payoff on DA investment (and not even counting the BK kids who went to DE)


----------



## 3leches

Given the lack of attention to certain age groups at Galaxy, one could assume they are focusing on 07/08's age group and I just don't see the development and promotion. (03's-06's)

04/03: are out the door at Galaxy and if your kid is not playing at least with Los Dos by now, he's headed straight to college if that is what you are looking for, if not defeats the purpose.
05's: Most have hit puberty and now they have an idea of who they want to promote.
06's- there are 3-4 kids that will make it to at least Los Dos

I think the above age groups will get overlooked the short end of the stick and the 07/08' will benefit in the future.


----------



## Kante

question to the group: any word on if MLS Next in general will stream the matches like what CO Rapids is doing here and/or if there will be match reports available per what USSDA did?

here's the stream link to the CO Rapids vs Real CO: https://www.coloradorapids.com/match-streams


----------



## JDROD10

3leches said:


> Given the lack of attention to certain age groups at Galaxy, one could assume they are focusing on 07/08's age group and I just don't see the development and promotion. (03's-06's)
> 
> 04/03: are out the door at Galaxy and if your kid is not playing at least with Los Dos by now, he's headed straight to college if that is what you are looking for, if not defeats the purpose.
> 05's: Most have hit puberty and now they have an idea of who they want to promote.
> 06's- there are 3-4 kids that will make it to at least Los Dos
> 
> I think the above age groups will get overlooked the short end of the stick and the 07/08' will benefit in the future.


Interesting take.


----------



## SBFDad

3leches said:


> Given the lack of attention to certain age groups at Galaxy, one could assume they are focusing on 07/08's age group and I just don't see the development and promotion. (03's-06's)
> 
> 04/03: are out the door at Galaxy and if your kid is not playing at least with Los Dos by now, he's headed straight to college if that is what you are looking for, if not defeats the purpose.
> 05's: Most have hit puberty and now they have an idea of who they want to promote.
> 06's- there are 3-4 kids that will make it to at least Los Dos
> 
> I think the above age groups will get overlooked the short end of the stick and the 07/08' will benefit in the future.


Yep, I think you’re on to something here. There were several years of a lack leadership and direction at LAG that lead to a pretty big gap in development. The 03s are a special year group there in spite of the environment. The 04s-06s fell thru the cracks. The youngest kids there will benefit if the leadership get their act together. Time will tell.


----------



## RedDevilDad

lafalafa said:


> Individual training for the MLS clubs but no group training yet is what I've heard some of which have been working out with different coaches or trainers as seen outside.
> 
> The air quality might be a hang up for this weekend but good to see at least a limited number of returners will get some group work in beyond the individual stuff.
> 
> There is a shake up or rethinking going on with the local MLS academies it appears so I wonder what direction they will go given the restrictions?  Some players are not waiting around it seems and there going to be less spend on these teams overall so wonder what that impact will be?


Air quality cancelled this weekend's activities.  LAFC's initial return will be in cohorts.  Basically each team is divided into 2 groups and then 2 age groups of GKs.  Initially, only cohorts train together.  Staggered arrival times and different entrances/fields per cohort. Gear sanitized between cohorts.


----------



## RedDevilDad

Kante said:


> question to the group: any word on if MLS Next in general will stream the matches like what CO Rapids is doing here and/or if there will be match reports available per what USSDA did?
> 
> here's the stream link to the CO Rapids vs Real CO: https://www.coloradorapids.com/match-streams


Rumors are that the next to-be-negotiated TV deal will include MLS Next games.  That and $3 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.


----------



## Kante

RedDevilDad said:


> Rumors are that the next to-be-negotiated TV deal will include MLS Next games.  That and $3 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.


feel like you're being sarcastic.


----------



## RedDevilDad

Kante said:


> feel like you're being sarcastic.


Yeah, safe bet that I'm sarcastic and skeptical of anything related to youth soccer. lol.  
I'm just saying that I heard the rumor that the new TV deal is to include MLS Next games... then my Starbucks comment insinuated the value of that rumor... to be close to nil. lol.


----------



## Emma

Starbucks Menu Prices

FoodSizePriceFreshly Brewed CoffeeTall*$1.85*Freshly Brewed CoffeeGrande*$2.10*Freshly Brewed CoffeeVenti$2.45


----------



## RedDevilDad

Emma said:


> Starbucks Menu Prices
> 
> FoodSizePriceFreshly Brewed CoffeeTall*$1.85*Freshly Brewed CoffeeGrande*$2.10*Freshly Brewed CoffeeVenti$2.45


I am a generous tipper. lol.


----------



## Kante

be interesting to see. lots of benefit in making MLS next game video widely available.

biggest would be that players and coaches outside of mls next could see what the level was, and learn and grow accordingly i.e. reaching that level, once it's de-mystified/becomes knowable, becomes possible.

obvious benies also accrue for scouting (pro, club, college, ynt) etc.

general rule about information/data is that it follows the network effect, that it becomes exponentially more valuable/useful the more people have access to it.

translation: if mls next starts a youtube channel, coffees are on me.


----------



## Dargle

Kante said:


> be interesting to see. lots of benefit in making MLS next game video widely available.
> 
> biggest would be that players and coaches outside of mls next could see what the level was, and learn and grow accordingly i.e. reaching that level, once it's de-mystified/becomes knowable, becomes possible.
> 
> obvious benies also accrue for scouting (pro, club, college, ynt) etc.
> 
> general rule about information/data is that it follows the network effect, that it becomes exponentially more valuable/useful the more people have access to it.
> 
> translation: if mls next starts a youtube channel, coffees are on me.


I have no doubt that they would attempt to include MLS Next games as part of an MLS media package.  Some of these streaming networks need content and there is enough niche demand for HS age games that it would drive some people, on the margins, to add the subscription to their streaming network just to see the youth games. Doubt it would be for just any game, though, because video quality would vary so much as to be unwatchable in some cases. It would probably be for the showcases/playoffs etc where they could bring people in to do all the video work at a single site.  That's what they did for the Generation Adidas Cup, which was on Twitch in 2019, but only for the finals









						2019 Generation adidas Cup Streaming Schedule
					

April 20, 2019   Saturday Match Watch on    1:30 PM ET U-15 Final: Toronto vs Guadalajara twitch.tv/mls   5:30 PM ET Premier Division Final: Tijuana vs Midtjylland twitch.tv/mls   7:00 PM ET Champions Division Final: Seattle vs Valencia twitch.tv/mls




					www.mlssoccer.com


----------



## Not A Player

Anyone see published rules/regulations for the MLS league?  They must exist, with all those games played last weekend in other parts of the country.


----------



## jpeter

Not A Player said:


> Anyone see published rules/regulations for the MLS league?  They must exist, with all those games played last weekend in other parts of the country.


There is a .pdf thats been given to clubs regarding the rules & regs but not posted on-line yet.

I haven't read it yet but was given you a summary as it was explained to me;  follows the previous DA rules but with some modifications:

U16-U19 45s minute halves. U15-U15 40 minute halves, U13 35 minute halves

U14 to U19 “unlimited substitutions over three (3) moments in the game, plus half time with no re-entry after exiting the match.: U13 “Unlimited substitutions over three (3) moments per half, plus half time, with no re-entry per half.”

players “are _recommended _but not required to start in at least 25% of their Club’s MLS NEXT Games during the season. Additionally, we recommend that U-13, U-14 and U-15 players participate in 50% of the minutes played each season in their age group.”

For U-13 through U-19 MLS NEXT Games, only 18 Players from the Roster will be eligible to participate in each Game, and these Players must be placed on the Game Day Roster”

Clubs will have one period during the MLS NEXT Season (September 1, 2020 through April 2, 2021) at which time Players may be added as full-time.

Club Players must agree to forgo participating simultaneously in both (1) MLS NEXT and (2) high school or middle school soccer.” Exceptions for soccer school scholarship players.

Outside competition with permission and only in events that follow “the MLS NEXT Technical Framework and are in compliance with the standards outlined in the MLS NEXT Outside Competition Standards.”

No Club has exclusive territory rights. Clubs may recruit players for participation on Clubs from any geographic region.”


----------



## Patandpats

jpeter said:


> U14 to U19 “unlimited substitutions over three (3) moments in the game, plus half time with no re-entry after exiting the match.: U13 “Unlimited substitutions over three (3) moments per half, plus half time, with no re-entry per half.”
> 
> 
> 
> Club Players must agree to forgo participating simultaneously in both (1) MLS NEXT and (2) high school or middle school soccer.” Exceptions for soccer school scholarship players.


I thought one thing clubs didn't like about DA was the sub rules. No re-entry makes no sense to me. Most of these kids aren't being developed for anything beyond HS.  Makes sense for MLS clubs, but not the LAUFA, Albion, City FC's etc of the world.  I can't imagine being the parent of a kid who drives three hours for a game or goes to AZ only to play the last five minutes or not at all.

What is the rationale that HS soccer is good for GA players, but bad for MLS league players?  There is only one which is that the MLS teams need teams to play.  So just like the DA, the non MLS teams exist to serve the MLS teams.  I wish all of these teams would have to be required to list "where are they now" for the four years after the players are done with club soccer. I'd bet most DA/MLSNext teams that aren't affiliated with MLS clubs have most of their players done with competitive soccer within two years of graduating HS.


----------



## watfly

Patandpats said:


> I thought one thing clubs didn't like about DA was the sub rules. No re-entry makes no sense to me. Most of these kids aren't being developed for anything beyond HS.  Makes sense for MLS clubs, but not the LAUFA, Albion, City FC's etc of the world.  I can't imagine being the parent of a kid who drives three hours for a game or goes to AZ only to play the last five minutes or not at all.


Hadn't thought much about the no re-entry rule, but I think your spot on.  That is going to be particularly troublesome for my son's team given there is a precipitous drop off from starters to bench.  I have to believe that our coach didn't think that one through when he added players that aren't currently ready for this level of competition, but thought he could develop.  That's going to be difficult to manage...there will always be unhappy parents but this has the potential to magnify the situation.


----------



## lafalafa

Patandpats said:


> I thought one thing clubs didn't like about DA was the sub rules. No re-entry makes no sense to me. Most of these kids aren't being developed for anything beyond HS.  Makes sense for MLS clubs, but not the LAUFA, Albion, City FC's etc of the world.  I can't imagine being the parent of a kid who drives three hours for a game or goes to AZ only to play the last five minutes or not at all.
> 
> What is the rationale that HS soccer is good for GA players, but bad for MLS league players?  There is only one which is that the MLS teams need teams to play.  So just like the DA, the non MLS teams exist to serve the MLS teams.  I wish all of these teams would have to be required to list "where are they now" for the four years after the players are done with club soccer. I'd bet most DA/MLSNext teams that aren't affiliated with MLS clubs have most of their players done with competitive soccer within two years of graduating HS.


I'm with one of those clubs and the sub rules are improved over DA since the are now unlimited instead of a fixed and it's possible to now get all 18 on the game day roster into a game.   Half time is when to sub if you want reentry later.   This is the same as other usclub leagues like ECXX.

High school this year not going to work well with spring club concurrent and high school playing at the same  time no matter what league.   From a practical view point concurrent play is always tricky and the way it's been handled in the past is through scheduling workarounds but this year not so much.

The wording is there is no ban on return prohibition for high or middle school soccer like DA only that concurrent play is not allowed unless you have a waiver.  In other words when your HS sesson is over you can return to play MLS NEXT or until you start HS play NEXT is OK.  Some improvements over the former DA rules.

This is a boys only league so what girls leagues are doing is really not on the radar.


----------



## Dargle

Patandpats said:


> I thought one thing clubs didn't like about DA was the sub rules. No re-entry makes no sense to me. Most of these kids aren't being developed for anything beyond HS.  Makes sense for MLS clubs, but not the LAUFA, Albion, City FC's etc of the world.  I can't imagine being the parent of a kid who drives three hours for a game or goes to AZ only to play the last five minutes or not at all.
> 
> What is the rationale that HS soccer is good for GA players, but bad for MLS league players?  There is only one which is that the MLS teams need teams to play.  So just like the DA, the non MLS teams exist to serve the MLS teams.  I wish all of these teams would have to be required to list "where are they now" for the four years after the players are done with club soccer. I'd bet most DA/MLSNext teams that aren't affiliated with MLS clubs have most of their players done with competitive soccer within two years of graduating HS.


I'm not sure the rationale for the sub rules, but the actual documents do state that they will be inspecting game reports for general observance of the 50% play "recommendation" for U13-U15, which makes it sound more like a strong recommendation.  My sense is that if that recommendation is taken seriously, then the no re-entry rules would prioritize choosing which games kids play in rather than how many minutes they get in each game. You might play your best players most of the game in the tough games, but give other kids the full game in the games against lesser opponents.  I guess playing the full 70 or 80 minutes every third game and maybe a few minutes in the other games could be better for a kid than playing 10-12 minutes each half in every game, at least if there is some transparency about it each week.

As for HS play, that seems to be a much higher priority for girls (hence the GA rule, which is a league unrelated to MLS Next).  Maybe some boys who live in OC/SD/VC or in certain school districts care about it, but I haven't heard boys from LA complain about access to HS Soccer. Apart from Loyola HS, there are very few strong programs and there is generally little sense of school pride or community spirit around boys soccer in LA. In the City Section it's pretty much a mess for a really short season with few boys teams (or their coaches) taking it really seriously except perhaps in the west SFV.


----------



## Dargle

watfly said:


> Hadn't thought much about the no re-entry rule, but I think your spot on.  That is going to be particularly troublesome for my son's team given there is a precipitous drop off from starters to bench.  I have to believe that our coach didn't think that one through when he added players that aren't currently ready for this level of competition, but thought he could develop.  That's going to be difficult to manage...there will always be unhappy parents but this has the potential to magnify the situation.


Is it possible your coach is going to roster those players as "Future Players" (the old Developmental Player) under the rule, rather than fully rostered players?  That would allow them to get minutes in another team in the club. I think you can have a really large number of those players, enough for everyone who isn't a starter.


----------



## watfly

jpeter said:


> There is a .pdf thats been given to clubs regarding the rules & regs but not posted on-line yet.
> 
> I haven't read it yet but was given you a summary as it was explained to me;  follows the previous DA rules but with some modifications:
> 
> U16-U19 45s minute halves. U15-U15 40 minute halves, U13 35 minute halves
> 
> U14 to U19 “unlimited substitutions over three (3) moments in the game, plus half time with no re-entry after exiting the match.: U13 “Unlimited substitutions over three (3) moments per half, plus half time, with no re-entry per half.”
> 
> players “are _recommended _but not required to start in at least 25% of their Club’s MLS NEXT Games during the season. Additionally, we recommend that U-13, U-14 and U-15 players participate in 50% of the minutes played each season in their age group.”
> 
> For U-13 through U-19 MLS NEXT Games, only 18 Players from the Roster will be eligible to participate in each Game, and these Players must be placed on the Game Day Roster”
> 
> Clubs will have one period during the MLS NEXT Season (September 1, 2020 through April 2, 2021) at which time Players may be added as full-time.
> 
> Club Players must agree to forgo participating simultaneously in both (1) MLS NEXT and (2) high school or middle school soccer.” Exceptions for soccer school scholarship players.
> 
> Outside competition with permission and only in events that follow “the MLS NEXT Technical Framework and are in compliance with the standards outlined in the MLS NEXT Outside Competition Standards.”
> 
> No Club has exclusive territory rights. Clubs may recruit players for participation on Clubs from any geographic region.”


Do you happen to know if there is going to be a full time vs. part time distinction whereby the part time wouldn't be subject to the 25% start and 50% play guideline and could only play in a certain number of games?


----------



## watfly

Dargle said:


> Is it possible your coach is going to roster those players as "Future Players" (the old Developmental Player) under the rule, rather than fully rostered players?  That would allow them to get minutes in another team in the club. I think you can have a really large number of those players, enough for everyone who isn't a starter.


Our thoughts must have crossed in space.  In his conversations with me, he termed them development contract players but we don't have a lower team for them to play on.   He's a great coach tactically but often doesn't think things through logistically.


----------



## Patandpats

Dargle said:


> I'm not sure the rationale for the sub rules, but the actual documents do state that they will be inspecting game reports for general observance of the 50% play "recommendation" for U13-U15, which makes it sound more like a strong recommendation.  My sense is that if that recommendation is taken seriously, then the no re-entry rules would prioritize choosing which games kids play in rather than how many minutes they get in each game. You might play your best players most of the game in the tough games, but give other kids the full game in the games against lesser opponents.  I guess playing the full 70 or 80 minutes every third game and maybe a few minutes in the other games could be better for a kid than playing 10-12 minutes each half in every game, at least if there is some transparency about it each week.
> 
> As for HS play, that seems to be a much higher priority for girls (hence the GA rule, which is a league unrelated to MLS Next).  Maybe some boys who live in OC/SD/VC or in certain school districts care about it, but I haven't heard boys from LA complain about access to HS Soccer. Apart from Loyola HS, there are very few strong programs and there is generally little sense of school pride or community spirit around boys soccer in LA. In the City Section it's pretty much a mess for a really short season with few boys teams (or their coaches) taking it really seriously except perhaps in the west SFV.


You make good points. When it comes to HS, I personally think that they take it away because they are trying to sell the college/pro dream, but the reality is that most boys don't play past HS and there are way more opportunities for women than men in college and beyond.


----------



## Dargle

watfly said:


> Our thoughts must have crossed in space.  In his conversations with me, he termed them development contract players but we don't have a lower team for them to play on.   He's a great coach tactically but often doesn't think things through logistically.


The new Future Player is basically the same as the old Developmental or Part-Time player.  Practice with the MLS Next team at least 1x/week and play in no more than 12 or 13 games I think.  The players’ other games can be with another team in the club or in an “affiliated” club.  I don’t think they are subject to the 25/50% recommendation since their status assumes they play elsewhere too.


----------



## Kante

Dargle said:


> The new Future Player is basically the same as the old Developmental or Part-Time player.  Practice with the MLS Next team at least 1x/week and play in no more than 12 or 13 games I think.  The players’ other games can be with another team in the club or in an “affiliated” club.  I don’t think they are subject to the 25/50% recommendation since their status assumes they play elsewhere too.


Any sense on what - if anything - they're doing with "late developers" being able to play a year down? same as DA or different or not at all?


----------



## Dargle

Kante said:


> Any sense on what - if anything - they're doing with "late developers" being able to play a year down? same as DA or different or not at all?


I don't think they saying anything about playing down, but they do allow playing up with the ability to play two games in a day if the total minutes isn't more than the total minutes of one game for your regular team.


----------



## Kante

Dargle said:


> I don't think they saying anything about playing down, but they do allow playing up with the ability to play two games in a day if the total minutes isn't more than the total minutes of one game for your regular team.


alas. got it. thx.
_____

Editorial for the day:

Headline: RAE goes by the wayside again. 

Would like to take this opportunity to highlight that the first US Soccer Camp Brendan Aronson, Paxton Aronson, Alex Mendez, Frankie Amaya, Chris Gloster and yes, Sebastian Berhalter, were called up to was the US Soccer Futures Camp, a camp dedicated to late developing players. 

All these players had been passed over by the traditional US Soccer YNT age groups camps up to that point. 

Running the numbers, attending a US Soccer Futures Camp was more highly correlated to a player later being called up to the US u20 YNT than any other single, preceding YNT camp (eg, u14, u15 u16 etc)

The Futures Camp was first held by US Soccer in 2015, and then again in 2017, but was killed with nary a whimper in 2019. RIP.

and now back to business as usual.

Meanwhile, little known, obscure soccer countries like France and England are actively cultivating late developers, but they don't know anything...


----------



## watfly

Kante said:


> Any sense on what - if anything - they're doing with "late developers" being able to play a year down? same as DA or different or not at all?


RAE was a misguided experiment by US Soccer that was doomed to fail.  RAE is not going to make any difference until US coaches change their whole mentality of picking size over skill at the youth level.  Why change the game by playing down when we need to change our mentality. Coaches think they can teach a big kid touch, but aren't willing to invest in the shorter more skilled, oftentimes smarter, kid over the long run.  Size has a short term benefit for winning, but not much significance relative to skill and IQ in the long run.

Before Cruyff, Barcelona had a sign on the coaches door that "If your offering us a youth player shorter than 1.8 meters (5'10"), turn around and go home".  Obviously, we know what happened after Cruyff took over.  We need the same mindset change in the US.


----------



## Emma

watfly said:


> RAE was a misguided experiment by US Soccer that was doomed to fail.  RAE is not going to make any difference until US coaches change their whole mentality of picking size over skill at the youth level.  Why change the game by playing down when we need to change our mentality. Coaches think they can teach a big kid touch, but aren't willing to invest in the shorter more skilled, oftentimes smarter, kid over the long run.  Size has a short term benefit for winning, but not much significance relative to skill and IQ in the long run.
> 
> Before Cruyff, Barcelona had a sign on the coaches door that "If your offering us a youth player shorter than 1.8 meters (5'10"), turn around and go home".  Obviously, we know what happened after Cruyff took over.  We need the same mindset change in the US.


That's a tough decision for a coach to make, choosing between an athletic kid capable of handling the current level or choose a skilled kid currently being knocked off the ball all the time.  How will he know what the future holds?  What if the big athletic kid puts in the work to learn the game and become skillful?  What if the small one never grows and always has beautiful touches but can't keep up with speed and strength?

Playing down or on the second team is a great solution for smaller players but parents are too prideful to put our small skilled player in the B team until they're fully developed and can handle the physicality of the A team.


----------



## watfly

Emma said:


> That's a tough decision for a coach to make, choosing between an athletic kid capable of handling the current level or choose a skilled kid currently being knocked off the ball all the time.  How will he know what the future holds?  What if the big athletic kid puts in the work to learn the game and become skillful?  What if the small one never grows and always has beautiful touches but can't keep up with speed and strength?
> 
> Playing down or on the second team is a great solution for smaller players but parents are too prideful to put our small skilled player in the B team until they're fully developed and can handle the physicality of the A team.


RAE really does nothing to solve the "what ifs" in your first paragraph.   RAE would really just prolong the inevitable.  I'm also not saying just always take the small kid if he is more skilled, but there needs to be better balance.

100% in favor of playing on the 2nd team which makes way more sense than RAE.  Unfortunately, an issue with playing on the 2nd team is it can "stigmatize" (in the eyes of other coaches) that player as a second team player.  How many times have you heard "Oh yeah he plays for (insert uber club name here)" with the response "Oh but he plays on the second team".  That's a mentality that needs to change.  Unfortunately, there are many SoCal coaches that do a poor job of talent identification.


----------



## soccerpops

*"No Club has exclusive territory rights. Clubs may recruit players for participation on Clubs from any geographic region.” *

Does this mean that any player from any area is now able to play for any MLS team? I know prior to this announcement, there was always the territory rule for the MLS academies.


----------



## Kante

soccerpops said:


> *"No Club has exclusive territory rights. Clubs may recruit players for participation on Clubs from any geographic region.” *
> 
> Does this mean that any player from any area is now able to play for any MLS team? I know prior to this announcement, there was always the territory rule for the MLS academies.


Yes.


----------



## Raakjoer

Not sure if this has already been posted, but seems like an official schedule/results page.





						GotSport
					






					system.gotsport.com


----------



## messy

Raakjoer said:


> Not sure if this has already been posted, but seems like an official schedule/results page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GotSport
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> system.gotsport.com


Where’s San Diego Surf? And Golden State and Pats?


----------



## Raakjoer

messy said:


> Where’s San Diego Surf? And Golden State and Pats?


Work in progress i guess....


----------



## watfly

messy said:


> Where’s San Diego Surf? And Golden State and Pats?


ECNL


----------



## Kante

Raakjoer said:


> Not sure if this has already been posted, but seems like an official schedule/results page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GotSport
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> system.gotsport.com


just did a little dance.

(probably oversharing)

thanks!


----------



## Dargle

messy said:


> Where’s San Diego Surf? And Golden State and Pats?


Those clubs moved to ECNL before MLS announced it was forming a youth league, although some of the players from those clubs migrated to clubs with MLS teams (and a few vice versa).

What's noteworthy is that at least this season (which is influenced by Covid factors tending toward more local play) there is a Southern California division and a Southwest division. The former is the LA clubs, plus Murrieta Surf, VC Fusion, and Santa Barbara.  The latter is the AZ clubs plus the San Diego clubs.  Not sure where the Nevada teams are placed. Perhaps they aren't because of Covid travel restrictions.

This means that the Southern California division plays the two MLS Academy teams, while the others don't, at least in league play.


----------



## Raakjoer

Kante said:


> just did a little dance.
> 
> (probably oversharing)
> 
> thanks!


Yeah, its at least something to look at... Not much news these days so anything new posted in this thread is fun. I've tried using that gotsport eventid to track down any rosters, etc. but nothing yet. I saw Sounders released their roster the other day, so hopefully more and more teams follow suit asap.


----------



## messy

Dargle said:


> Those clubs moved to ECNL before MLS announced it was forming a youth league, although some of the players from those clubs migrated to clubs with MLS teams (and a few vice versa).
> 
> What's noteworthy is that at least this season (which is influenced by Covid factors tending toward more local play) there is a Southern California division and a Southwest division. The former is the LA clubs, plus Murrieta Surf, VC Fusion, and Santa Barbara.  The latter is the AZ clubs plus the San Diego clubs.  Not sure where the Nevada teams are placed. Perhaps they aren't because of Covid travel restrictions.
> 
> This means that the Southern California division plays the two MLS Academy teams, while the others don't, at least in league play.


Not to be a wet blanket, but the early-mid-October start date ain’t bloody likely in LA County.


----------



## lafalafa

messy said:


> Not to be a wet blanket, but the early-mid-October start date ain’t bloody likely in LA County.


The socal bracket teams are painting into a corner but for those in the southwest brackets could play out of state.

LA Galaxy apparently vdecided not to enter u19 so U17 is there oldest in SoCal U17 but with only 4 other teams to play in that bracket not sure if that is going to work all that well or get players motivated to play the same teams 4x or whatever


----------



## Kante

messy said:


> Not to be a wet blanket, but the early-mid-October start date ain’t bloody likely in LA County.


Gonna go glass half full...

Couple of different vectors are converging on 10/5 as a key day for things to start to shift. Will see. 

Key is what sectors - youth sports, Disneyland, pac 10 football, hair salons etc???? - are priorities for Newsom.


----------



## Kante

lafalafa said:


> The socal bracket teams are painting into a corner but for those in the southwest brackets could play out of state.
> 
> LA Galaxy apparently vdecided not to enter u19 so U17 is there oldest in SoCal U17 but with only 4 other teams to play in that bracket not sure if that is going to work all that well or get players motivated to play the same teams 4x or whatever


Would assume LAFC and LAG - across age groups - have plans for lots of games outside MLS Next, yes?


----------



## watfly

messy said:


> Not to be a wet blanket, but the early-mid-October start date ain’t bloody likely in LA County.


Not bloody likely in SD County and we're technically ahead of LA.  MLS Next has zero control over when we play our first games.

I like Kante's optimism though.


----------



## jpeter

watfly said:


> Not bloody likely in SD County and we're technically ahead of LA.  MLS Next has zero control over when we play our first games.
> 
> I like Kante's optimism though.


Hard to see start of games before November since we still haven't even started practicing in the small groups yet.   Going to be at least October before we even see the whole team together.

Son is going to miss playing there rival since the don't even have a team any longer in our bracket.

USL academy starts in spring but it's only 1 combination team per club but it's a big $$$ investment so will see.   MLS still needs to address a plan for u18-23 players besides just seeing them walk to college, USL is costly and doesn't have a lot of depth so maybe the spring academy will help but likely only to about u19.

The college gap are prime years but only playing 3 months out of a year is not going to get it done to develop players.


----------



## Emma

watfly said:


> RAE really does nothing to solve the "what ifs" in your first paragraph.   RAE would really just prolong the inevitable.  I'm also not saying just always take the small kid if he is more skilled, but there needs to be better balance.
> 
> 100% in favor of playing on the 2nd team which makes way more sense than RAE.  Unfortunately, an issue with playing on the 2nd team is it can "stigmatize" (in the eyes of other coaches) that player as a second team player.  How many times have you heard "Oh yeah he plays for (insert uber club name here)" with the response "Oh but he plays on the second team".  That's a mentality that needs to change.  Unfortunately, there are many SoCal coaches that do a poor job of talent identification.


I rarely see coaches care what team a player is from, unless they're trying to weaken a competing team.   If the player can compete with the existing players or appears better, coaches don't care.  I see a lot of B team players get moved up to the A teams after developing for a year or two.   

I do see A LOT of parents get very upset and even offended about their kids being moved down to the B team or placed on the B team.

Coaches that look into a player's previous team is lazy and not confident in his/her own ability to develop or scout and we should stay clear of those coaches regardless of what club team they are coaching.


----------



## BIGD

Are we really all okay with these organizations creating all these separate leagues completely for their own benefit that requires out of state league play when there is plenty of competition in our own areas?  Are we really okay with subbing rules that don't foster development?  No re-entry?  The coaches aren't capable of managing their own subbing?  

None of these leagues/rules are about the kids.  Apparently I need to stop expecting youth organizations to serve the youth.


----------



## espola

BIGD said:


> Are we really all okay with these organizations creating all these separate leagues completely for their own benefit that requires out of state league play when there is plenty of competition in our own areas?  Are we really okay with subbing rules that don't foster development?  No re-entry?  The coaches aren't capable of managing their own subbing?
> 
> None of these leagues/rules are about the kids.  Apparently I need to stop expecting youth organizations to serve the youth.


I agree - make them come here.  What is missing in So Cal is a really big tournament, something that lasts a week or 9 days in the Spring or Summer and is not confined to one field complex.  Cal South's National Cup almost does it, except that they only play on weekends and out of staters are excluded.  Look at Dallas Cup, Gothia Cup, or Disney's holiday tournaments as examples.


----------



## watfly

BIGD said:


> Are we really all okay with these organizations creating all these separate leagues completely for their own benefit that requires out of state league play when there is plenty of competition in our own areas?  Are we really okay with subbing rules that don't foster development?  No re-entry?  The coaches aren't capable of managing their own subbing?
> 
> None of these leagues/rules are about the kids.  Apparently I need to stop expecting youth organizations to serve the youth.


It's over the top with all the different leagues.  The creation of new leagues the last few years has been insane.  My hope is that we will see some consolidation of gaming circuits as clubs realize this is unmanageable...but I'm not holding my breath.  The flip side is you have choice and you can choose to travel or not.  For our family, we have great memories of the road trips we have taken whether for soccer or BMX racing.  Do we remember the games or the races, rarely, but we remember the good times on the road, seeing new places and hanging out with teammates and their parents. 

When adults are involved its rarely about the youth, just like public schools controlled by teachers's unions and the politicians that have put a disproportionate burden on our children during Covid.  It's awesome when you find an organization that truly puts kids first.


----------



## BIGD

watfly said:


> It's over the top with all the different leagues.  The creation of new leagues the last few years has been insane.  My hope is that we will see some consolidation of gaming circuits as clubs realize this is unmanageable...but I'm not holding my breath.  The flip side is you have choice and you can choose to travel or not.  For our family, we have great memories of the road trips we have taken whether for soccer or BMX racing.  Do we remember the games or the races, rarely, but we remember the good times on the road, seeing new places and hanging out with teammates and their parents.
> 
> When adults are involved its rarely about the youth, just like public schools controlled by teachers's unions and the politicians that have put a disproportionate burden on our children during Covid.  It's awesome when you find an organization that truly puts kids first.


I'm good with tournament travel and even league travel within SoCal.    Out of state league travel on top of tournament travel is over the top.  Our family also likes to travel for non sports reasons and time is a limited resource.

The problem is, there aren't too many options if you have a competitive kid that likes high level training and play.   But we may end up opting out anyway.


----------



## watfly

BIGD said:


> I'm good with tournament travel and even league travel within SoCal.    Out of state league travel on top of tournament travel is over the top.  Our family also likes to travel for non sports reasons and time is a limited resource.
> 
> The problem is, there aren't too many options if you have a competitive kid that likes high level training and play.   But we may end up opting out anyway.


The split between ECNL and MLS on the boys side is obviously not helpful.  I think for some clubs that went to ECNL it was a question of which league would they have more influence and some may have just jumped the gun due to warranted skepticism re: the MLS league.  Both leagues have their pluses and minus.

Best of luck,  after 2 years of DA that we're taking things a lot less seriously while still competing at the highest level.  Maybe not a good long term strategy, but it is working and my son seems more engaged.


----------



## 3leches

No U16 or U 19 for Galaxy, if I'm reading correctly.  Wonder what is the plan for the 2005s. Maybe they will play them up since they cut so many 04's and the 06's will play up with the 05's.


----------



## SFR

BIGD said:


> Are we really all okay with these organizations creating all these separate leagues completely for their own benefit that requires out of state league play when there is plenty of competition in our own areas?  Are we really okay with subbing rules that don't foster development?  No re-entry?  The coaches aren't capable of managing their own subbing?
> 
> None of these leagues/rules are about the kids.  Apparently I need to stop expecting youth organizations to serve the youth.


I am not sure I can agree with you on "rules are NOT about the kids." In general, if you bring new rules that you think it's beneficial for kids then you always find folks who would say opposite, because it's just matter of the opinion. For example, a few years ago, Nor-Cal introduced an additional line for U9-10 age that would allow team to do goal kick without extra pressure from opposing team. Lot's of coaches didn't like it and were saying it's not helping but producing opposite results. Same thing for subbing rule. I could come up with arguments for No re-entry. For one, Re-entry with unlimited subbing (I suppose) will slow the game and coaches will be using it for purposely delaying game as they used do it before.  How is that for youth development. The 2nd argument against would be if coach can put starting player back on the field it will reduce the playing time for those players who usually don't see a lot of minutes to start from. Again, it's just the matter of opinion what is good and what is not.


----------



## Dargle

3leches said:


> No U16 or U 19 for Galaxy, if I'm reading correctly.  Wonder what is the plan for the 2005s. Maybe they will play them up since they cut so many 04's and the 06's will play up with the 05's.


There never was a U16 age group in DA.  Theory was that it was a moment to winnow down the players (after most have gone through their major growth spurts) and only keep the ones strong enough to play a year up or at least compete in practice for a year to be ready for the U17 team.  MLS only requires its teams offer U15 and U17 age groups, so the addition of a U16 age group is really an accommodation by the league for the clubs that want it.


----------



## SFR

Dargle said:


> There never was a U16 age group in DA. Theory was that it was a moment to winnow down the players (after most have gone through their major growth spurts) and only keep the ones strong enough to play a year up or at least compete in practice for a year to be ready for the U17 team. MLS only requires its teams offer U15 and U17 age groups, so the addition of a U16 age group is really an accommodation by the league for the clubs that want it.


From practical point of view it makes sense. If I run the academy I'd only concern about end up with the best of the best players and I would start filtering out players after U-15 age.
If I am a parent of 15 years old player who is not going to make U17 next year I would definitely argue for U16 and U19 academy teams.
( disclosure: my son is not on MLS academy team)


----------



## lafalafa

Kante said:


> Would assume LAFC and LAG - across age groups - have plans for lots of games outside MLS Next, yes?


In prior years yes, going forward not sure.

LAFC would scrimmage or friendly teams regularly but only travel to the majors. Galaxy a bunch of friendlies with large travel budget, international comps.   With the budget squeezes MLS travel $ likely reduced for youth not to mention the medical risks.

Hopefully they brackets are somewhat figurehead vs strick league only match ups.   Cross play the other bracket: SW (2x per for 8 games) v SoCal for example 1x per (8 games).   16 game 1st part of the schedule


----------



## espola

SFR said:


> I am not sure I can agree with you on "rules are NOT about the kids." In general, if you bring new rules that you think it's beneficial for kids then you always find folks who would say opposite, because it's just matter of the opinion. For example, a few years ago, Nor-Cal introduced an additional line for U9-10 age that would allow team to do goal kick without extra pressure from opposing team. Lot's of coaches didn't like it and were saying it's not helping but producing opposite results. Same thing for subbing rule. I could come up with arguments for No re-entry. For one, Re-entry with unlimited subbing (I suppose) will slow the game and coaches will be using it for purposely delaying game as they used do it before.  How is that for youth development. The 2nd argument against would be if coach can put starting player back on the field it will reduce the playing time for those players who usually don't see a lot of minutes to start from. Again, it's just the matter of opinion what is good and what is not.


You have cited examples of bad coaching in rebuttal to a suggestion to change the rules to allow for good coaching.


----------



## SFR

espola said:


> You have cited examples of bad coaching in rebuttal to a suggestion to change the rules to allow for good coaching.


Not necessarily, I was trying to say that there is always presence of differences in opinions. I am pretty sure that who ever was running former DA or any current league came out with procedures and rules for the benefit of kids development. In your opinion some specific rules are not beneficial but in someone else opinion is. That's all I wanted to say. The examples I came up with might not be the best but I can come up with more like those to argue for not allow re-entry.
I am curios why do you think re-entry is beneficial in youth?


----------



## espola

SFR said:


> Not necessarily, I was trying to say that there is always presence of differences in opinions. I am pretty sure that who ever was running former DA or any current league came out with procedures and rules for the benefit of kids development. In your opinion some specific rules are not beneficial but in someone else opinion is. That's all I wanted to say. The examples I came up with might not be the best but I can come up with more like those to argue for not allow re-entry.
> I am curios why do you think re-entry is beneficial in youth?


Sometimes a player just needs a breather, a treatment for a minor injury or a short discussion with a coach to help with decision making.  Youth players are not just mini-pros, and hey should not be treated as such. Even NCAA rules, which are midway between "youth" and FIFA, allow for reasonable re-entry.


----------



## SFR

espola said:


> Sometimes a player just needs a breather, a treatment for a minor injury or a short discussion with a coach to help with decision making. Youth players are not just mini-pros, and hey should not be treated as such. Even NCAA rules, which are midway between "youth" and FIFA, allow for reasonable re-entry.


With all due respect what about that player who will be used as temp sub, in and out. What about that player development?


----------



## dad4

SFR said:


> With all due respect what about that player who will be used as temp sub, in and out. What about that player development?


I would assume the same as ought to happen in younger games.  You leave the temp sub in for a while, and sometimes it costs you the game 

We are talking HS kids here, not EPL.  Dont ask them to come if you dont want them in the game.


----------



## MacDre

dad4 said:


> I would assume the same as ought to happen in younger games.  You leave the temp sub in for a while, and sometimes it costs you the game
> 
> We are talking HS kids here, not EPL.  Dont ask them to come if you dont want them in the game.


Unfortunately in academies the vast majority of kids are only “training cones” to help develop the 3-5 elite players in each age group.  I don’t think academies give much thought to how the average kid/training cone develops or feels.  Some of the elite players may start getting pro minutes and contracts as early as 15 though.


----------



## SFR

dad4 said:


> I would assume the same as ought to happen in younger games.  You leave the temp sub in for a while, and sometimes it costs you the game
> 
> We are talking HS kids here, not EPL.  Dont ask them to come if you dont want them in the game.


I get that we are talking about HS age players. And I get that on the team there is a core and players whose roles are subs. But It looks to me that the original post was complaining about rules that are not beneficial to youth development. And I have a feeling that that concern about development was towards only those core/elite players.
I know it's useless argue about rule that league is established but again I am OK with no re-entry as if an elite player is out of breath then sub him and make sure that athlete start working harder on his agility.  Or if there is a minor injury that requires to take player from the field then sub him and don't let by any chance to make it worse by putting player back on the field. Or,  if you are not happy with player's decisions then sub him and talk after the game (preferably next day). Yes, you might not get the win if you sub one of your key players but it's the development after all that's important and not the a single game result. Again, I am not a coach and it's my opinion.


----------



## espola

SFR said:


> I get that we are talking about HS age players. And I get that on the team there is a core and players whose roles are subs. But It looks to me that the original post was complaining about rules that are not beneficial to youth development. And I have a feeling that that concern about development was towards only those core/elite players.
> I know it's useless argue about rule that league is established but again I am OK with no re-entry as if an elite player is out of breath then sub him and make sure that athlete start working harder on his agility.  Or if there is a minor injury that requires to take player from the field then sub him and don't let by any chance to make it worse by putting player back on the field. Or,  if you are not happy with player's decisions then sub him and talk after the game (preferably next day). Yes, you might not get the win if you sub one of your key players but it's the development after all that's important and not the a single game result. Again, I am not a coach and it's my opinion.


That was an interesting twist.

Most of the higher-level youth leagues claim "player development" as part of their agenda, even to the point of risking losing games.  On the other hand, they set up competitions and regulations that seem to place heavy emphasis on winning and inhibit good coaching practices as if they feel the players are already adequately developed as is.


----------



## SFR

espola said:


> That was an interesting twist.
> 
> Most of the higher-level youth leagues claim "player development" as part of their agenda, even to the point of risking losing games.  On the other hand, they set up competitions and regulations that seem to place heavy emphasis on winning and inhibit good coaching practices as if they feel the players are already adequately developed as is.


Well, can't argue with that.


----------



## dad4

espola said:


> That was an interesting twist.
> 
> Most of the higher-level youth leagues claim "player development" as part of their agenda, even to the point of risking losing games.  On the other hand, they set up competitions and regulations that seem to place heavy emphasis on winning and inhibit good coaching practices as if they feel the players are already adequately developed as is.


It’s because parents look at wins and the players on the field when picking clubs.

If we visited a game and noticed how much time the bench got to play, we might make different decisions.

At least for MLS, they are upfront about the purpose of their league- to take 20 excellent players and produce 2 or 3 worth hiring.


----------



## espola

dad4 said:


> It’s because parents look at wins and the players on the field when picking clubs.
> 
> If we visited a game and noticed how much time the bench got to play, we might make different decisions.
> 
> At least for MLS, they are upfront about the purpose of their league- to take 20 excellent players and produce 2 or 3 worth hiring.


And, since it is (delayed) Tour de France time, the rest are domestiques.


----------



## watfly

espola said:


> And, since it is (delayed) Tour de France time, the rest are domestiques.


That's a great way to describe it.  IMO the no-reentry does not serve the domestiques very well.  My concern is they don't get in until late in the game and possibly only get garbage minutes.  I feel like no-entry in the same half is way better than no-reentry the remainder of the game.

Clubs need to be more upfront with parents and kids about what they can expect in terms of playing time and where their kids are in the pecking order (since parents are incapable of seeing that for themselves).  Our coach was very upfront in our first parent meeting that there were 5-6 players that were identified as players that are going to be groomed to play with the club long term and that the others would have to show significant development to be part of that group.  I'm not sure that the parents of the non-anointed fully comprehended what that meant and the coach didn't go into any real detail.


----------



## SFR

watfly said:


> Clubs need to be more upfront with parents and kids about what they can expect in terms of playing time and where their kids are in the pecking order (since parents are incapable of seeing that for themselves).  Our coach was very upfront in our first parent meeting that there were 5-6 players that were identified as players that are going to be groomed to play with the club long term and that the others would have to show significant development to be part of that group.  I'm not sure that the parents of the non-anointed fully comprehended what that meant and the coach didn't go into any real detail.


I agree on this 101%.


----------



## messy

watfly said:


> That's a great way to describe it.  IMO the no-reentry does not serve the domestiques very well.  My concern is they don't get in until late in the game and possibly only get garbage minutes.  I feel like no-entry in the same half is way better than no-reentry the remainder of the game.
> 
> Clubs need to be more upfront with parents and kids about what they can expect in terms of playing time and where their kids are in the pecking order (since parents are incapable of seeing that for themselves).  Our coach was very upfront in our first parent meeting that there were 5-6 players that were identified as players that are going to be groomed to play with the club long term and that the others would have to show significant development to be part of that group.  I'm not sure that the parents of the non-anointed fully comprehended what that meant and the coach didn't go into any real detail.


Soccer coaches, God love ‘em and they devote their lives to these kids at very little pay, are the worst communicators ever. A parent has to be adept at reading the tea leaves and ask the kid if s/he wants to keep fighting for the spot, just be happy to be there or to move on. Never easy and the coach never provides clear guidance.


----------



## watfly

messy said:


> Soccer coaches, God love ‘em and they devote their lives to these kids at very little pay, are the worst communicators ever. A parent has to be adept at reading the tea leaves and ask the kid if s/he wants to keep fighting for the spot, just be happy to be there or to move on. Never easy and the coach never provides clear guidance.


I know parents can be a pain in the ass and its probably the worst part of a coaches job, but coaches don't make their job any easier by not communicating and managing expectations.


----------



## Dargle

Kante said:


> Any sense on what - if anything - they're doing with "late developers" being able to play a year down? same as DA or different or not at all?


I just saw this interview and thought about your question.  Fred Lipka, who has basically been MLS' point person for getting the MLS Next league off the ground, speaks positively about bio-banding, which is one way to address the "late developer" issue and can be done through showcases of selected players rather than playing players down.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306600825947664384


----------



## RedDevilDad

Hearing non-MLS teams saying no league till 2021. Anyone hearing anything from LAG or LAFC?


----------



## lafalafa

RedDevilDad said:


> Hearing non-MLS teams saying no league till 2021. Anyone hearing anything from LAG or LAFC?


Yes about the same. Thing is that MLS youth wants to align with the first team play which will end soon and pickup in March.  

The big news is there will be USL academy in the spring and the new u23 reserve league also









						MLS to launch reserves league beginning play in 2021, sources say
					

The new U-23 league will have big impacts on the USL and will consolidate MLS's role in its clubs' player development pathways




					theathletic.com


----------



## Dargle

Outside of CA, MLS Next league games are in full swing, including in Arizona where they’ve played 4 League games thus far.  CA teams other than LAG and LAFC have played scrimmages in AZ against AZ and CA MLS Next teams and I expect they’ll continue with the scrimmages until CA opens up for games


----------



## RedDevilDad

San Jose Earthquakes got this: 
Here is the body of an email that went out to west coast MLS Next teams:

The MLS NEXT Fall schedule for West Coast clubs, we agreed to wait for one month to see if the public health positions in WA-OR-CA-BC will change to allow more organized activity. 

Given the current positions of your state and local governments, we will postpone the start to any official MLS NEXT League matches in WA-OR-CA-BC for another month. Again, we will be ready to adjust should conditions change and we will plan to revisit the situation in early November.


----------



## RedDevilDad

lafalafa said:


> Yes about the same. Thing is that MLS youth wants to align with the first team play which will end soon and pickup in March.


LAG will end soon but LAFC will continue a bit longer.  
lol...


----------



## vegasguy

I heard clubs are already either being removed or are dropping out.  Any truth?


----------



## RedDevilDad

vegasguy said:


> I heard clubs are already either being removed or are dropping out.  Any truth?


Not hearing that at all...  LAFC and San Jose both said they were waiting to reassess in November. That is consistent with the email that was allegedly sent to all MLS Next clubs. Atlanta United started its own "tournament" over several months.


----------



## vegasguy

cool.  I was asking because I heard a few east coast squads and west coast squads non-mls affiliated did not meet whatever requirements there are.


----------



## lafalafa

vegasguy said:


> I heard clubs are already either being removed or are dropping out.  Any truth?


Next is new it just came out so it's going to be a while before it's really established.

After the initial marketing blitz the enthusiasm has kind of died off a little bit around here partly due to the restrictions.

Some teams or clubs have decided not to wait and they moved players around,  entered other leagues,  going out of state for tournaments, scrimmages or setting up a schedule of some sorts where they play scrimmages in non club gear at private places or facilities that are open.

When the rules (no concurrent HS play) and brackets came up where there is mostly intra play with the same teams they always play with a possiblity of a MLS game here or there is wasn't well received by some players especially the olders. With some clubs like Galaxy not even fielding a u19 team the support for college exposure doesn't seem to be there that much.

With USL academy a starting up in spring 2021 and the reported u23 reserve league next seems destined for a focus on U17 and below for the most part.


----------



## watfly

lafalafa said:


> With USL academy a starting up in spring 2021 and the reported u23 reserve league next seems destined for a focus on U17 and below for the most part.


Is anyone hearing anything about USL Clubs forming youth teams at this point?  I'd be curious to know what SD Loyal is doing.


----------



## RedDevilDad

This thread is mildly helpful too: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/2020-21-academy-season.2111347/.


----------



## lafalafa

Several non MLS socal teams apparently not waiting for "next" months update and have been either traveling out of state or to places like the SB complex that was reported packed with teams scrimmaging in pinnies last couple weekends. At least they check everyone including spectators with temp guns before they let cars in.  Some players have decided to wear masks while playing, mostly defenders it seemed.

Teams have also been playing in Sunday leagues at different look the other way facilities in parts of cities and counties locally.

So what's going on with the local MLS clubs have they moved past the conditioning in small groups to have teams together and actually playing something?


----------



## jpeter

LAFC has canceled all in-person activities at its Performance Center








						LAFC confirms two additional players have tested positive for coronavirus
					

LAFC has two more players test positive for coronavirus, bringing the total this week to three. The club is scheduled to face the San Jose Earthquakes, Sunday




					www.dailynews.com
				




Dang just when I thought we might get back to next phase in training now I'm not sure.


----------



## Desert Hound

jpeter said:


> LAFC has canceled all in-person activities at its Performance Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LAFC confirms two additional players have tested positive for coronavirus
> 
> 
> LAFC has two more players test positive for coronavirus, bringing the total this week to three. The club is scheduled to face the San Jose Earthquakes, Sunday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailynews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dang just when I thought we might get back to next phase in training now I'm not sure.


The press never circles back around after 2 weeks to say...hey nobody actually had an issue. If we were actually concerned about the health of the people testing positive on these sports teams, the articles would I don't know mention that. 

Instead the concern is a delay of games and how that affects playoffs.


----------



## jpeter

Desert Hound said:


> The press never circles back around after 2 weeks to say...hey nobody actually had an issue. If we were actually concerned about the health of the people testing positive on these sports teams, the articles would I don't know mention that.
> 
> Instead the concern is a delay of games and how that affects playoffs.


The concern for youth players is moving out of the conditioning phase to scrimmages and playing at our home facilities.   So far that hasn't happen and now our performance training facilitiy is closed also while they do a  through "cleaning" and test more.


----------

