# Rebels Cup 2017



## NumberTen (Jun 7, 2017)

Well the schedule for the Rebels cup is up.  It appears that there are less teams.  Is the tournament getting smaller?


----------



## Striker17 (Jun 7, 2017)

No lot of people have tired of that sideline scene the Rebels take with them wherever they go. 
Seriously scary parents.
05 girls at another club having a Dad go after a Girl two weekends ago. Yes this happened. 
Last weekend an 06 boys team also having their coach and parents almost ejected.
Pathetic. Let them stay in South Bag and pretend they are XOLOS.


----------



## NumberTen (Jun 7, 2017)

I have witnessed this with a lot of the boys that also play in the City Heights leagues.


----------



## SocalSoccerMom (Jun 7, 2017)

Terrible referees!


----------



## NumberTen (Jun 7, 2017)

I don't think the problem is the refs. All the local tournaments are refed by the same associations.  Maybe it is a statement on the general state of the referee quality in general.


----------



## baldref (Jun 7, 2017)

SocalSoccerMom said:


> Terrible referees!




Terrible referees at rebels cup? That hurts..... 

Actually we're the same association that does surf cup, manchester cup, albion cup, etc. cup, etc. cup..............


----------



## NumberTen (Jun 7, 2017)

I think that blaming a ref is useless.  If you don't have a ref, then you don't play. If you have any ref then you play. Nobody does reffing as a full time job,


----------



## SocalSoccerMom (Jun 7, 2017)

baldref said:


> Terrible referees at rebels cup? That hurts.....
> 
> Actually we're the same association that does surf cup, manchester cup, albion cup, etc. cup, etc. cup..............


Sorry, I'm sure the refs here are great. However, the championship match at Manchester Cup for U14 the center ref was terrible. Rarely, this was agreed by both teams


----------



## MWN (Jun 7, 2017)

DOCs and Coaches make the decisions as to which tournament to play in.  DOCs that belong to clubs with tournaments will commit X number of teams to the Rebels Tournament if the Rebels commit X number of teams that tournament via a reciprocity agreement (handshake deal).  In other cases, the DOC lets the Coaches decide.  Relationships, competition, and price weigh significantly, but for those coaches with multiple teams ... conflict avoidance is a huge consideration.  With regard to conflict avoidance, Tournaments spread out over 4 public parks, 2 high schools and 1 elementary school v. those held in a single complex (Del Mar Polo Fields, So Cal, Galway Downs, Silverlakes, San Bernardino, etc.) can often make or break a tournament.  I know about 3 coaches that won't look at multi venue tournaments if a single venue that offers good competition is available.  Price isn't really an issue for the DOCs and Coaches because that gets passed on to the tournaments.

I can tell you that Referee have zero impact on the decision from a DOC and Coaching perspective.  That said, the less expensive tournaments tend to pay about 1.40/minute whereas the more expensive tournaments pay about 1.65/minute.  So the better referees will often times commit to the higher paying tournaments, whereas, the less experienced referees will go to the lower paying tournaments if tournament conflicts arise.  For referees there are two sure fire ways to get the better refs: (1) 1.60+/minute for the crew and (2) cash on the field.

The Rebel tournament has a few things going against it.  First, its a multi-venue tournament played on 19 venues and teams have to travel between venues to play their 1st and 2nd game (that sucks).  Second, its not really a college showcase if you are putting your U14 to U17 (8th graders to sophomores on 3 to 4 separate venues).  Sure they have their U18's (at Southwestern College (mostly seniors and some juniors) ... great, put the kids already committed in front of the recruiters.  Most college recruiters are watching kids starting highschool, not finishing it.  Third, and final this "college showcase" is following the Silverlakes which is a single venue showcase and that is precisely where college coaches want to be.


----------



## Round (Jun 7, 2017)

NumberTen said:


> Well the schedule for the Rebels cup is up.  It appears that there are less teams.  Is the tournament getting smaller?


What everyone said.  All tournaments are struggling.  Things are changing fast, two years we won't recognize much.  From my time dealing with Rebels, 
-The refs are bad.  These are not the same people that ref most games. Some times big English issue.
-They don't treat managers well.  No bling
-fields are bad
- can play the same teams in a club arranged round robin.  All the same clubs.


----------



## Fact (Jun 7, 2017)

Round said:


> What everyone said.  All tournaments are struggling.  Things are changing fast, two years we won't recognize much.  From my time dealing with Rebels,
> -The refs are bad.  These are not the same people that ref most games. Some times big English issue.
> -They don't treat managers well.  No bling
> -fields are bad
> - can play the same teams in a club arranged round robin.  All the same clubs.


I agree with Round about the English issue; seems to have been more prevelant in the old days when clubs could pick refs but it is still an issue from my limited experience lately.

Rebels have nothing now that Gabe left and along with their intergrity.  All the great footwork he instilled will vanish from this club shortly.


----------



## baldref (Jun 8, 2017)

SocalSoccerMom said:


> Sorry, I'm sure the refs here are great. However, the championship match at Manchester Cup for U14 the center ref was terrible. Rarely, this was agreed by both teams


ouch again. I had a 14 final at Manchester. But of course, I did not suck.


----------



## baldref (Jun 8, 2017)

MWN said:


> DOCs and Coaches make the decisions as to which tournament to play in.  DOCs that belong to clubs with tournaments will commit X number of teams to the Rebels Tournament if the Rebels commit X number of teams that tournament via a reciprocity agreement (handshake deal).  In other cases, the DOC lets the Coaches decide.  Relationships, competition, and price weigh significantly, but for those coaches with multiple teams ... conflict avoidance is a huge consideration.  With regard to conflict avoidance, Tournaments spread out over 4 public parks, 2 high schools and 1 elementary school v. those held in a single complex (Del Mar Polo Fields, So Cal, Galway Downs, Silverlakes, San Bernardino, etc.) can often make or break a tournament.  I know about 3 coaches that won't look at multi venue tournaments if a single venue that offers good competition is available.  Price isn't really an issue for the DOCs and Coaches because that gets passed on to the tournaments.
> 
> I can tell you that Referee have zero impact on the decision from a DOC and Coaching perspective.  That said, the less expensive tournaments tend to pay about 1.40/minute whereas the more expensive tournaments pay about 1.65/minute.  So the better referees will often times commit to the higher paying tournaments, whereas, the less experienced referees will go to the lower paying tournaments if tournament conflicts arise.  For referees there are two sure fire ways to get the better refs: (1) 1.60+/minute for the crew and (2) cash on the field.
> 
> The Rebel tournament has a few things going against it.  First, its a multi-venue tournament played on 19 venues and teams have to travel between venues to play their 1st and 2nd game (that sucks).  Second, its not really a college showcase if you are putting your U14 to U17 (8th graders to sophomores on 3 to 4 separate venues).  Sure they have their U18's (at Southwestern College (mostly seniors and some juniors) ... great, put the kids already committed in front of the recruiters.  Most college recruiters are watching kids starting highschool, not finishing it.  Third, and final this "college showcase" is following the Silverlakes which is a single venue showcase and that is precisely where college coaches want to be.



I don't know about this statement about wages...... I don't think the higher level tournaments pay any more than the "other" tournaments, unless you're talking about ECNL or DA. "better" referees take games based on higher level of play, or proximity to their homes, or allegiance to certain assignors or associations. Some people like cash on the field and some like saving up tournament monies in their ref pay accounts. Personally, I like the higher level games, even if it means a longer drive.


----------



## Surfref (Jun 8, 2017)

baldref said:


> Terrible referees at rebels cup? That hurts.....
> 
> Actually we're the same association that does surf cup, manchester cup, albion cup, etc. cup, etc. cup..............


Don't forget that Rebels backed out last year and used refs from down south that were much cheaper.  Heard from a friend who had a kid playing in the tournament that the refs were horrible.  Said he saw two teenage boys show up that were given yellow ref shirts and had badges with the wrong year.  They were the AR's for all games on that field and basically only called the ball in and out of play.  He said the CR ever ran once.


----------



## Surfref (Jun 8, 2017)

*never ran


----------



## baldref (Jun 8, 2017)

Surfref said:


> Don't forget that Rebels backed out last year and used refs from down south that were much cheaper.  Heard from a friend who had a kid playing in the tournament that the refs were horrible.  Said he saw two teenage boys show up that were given yellow ref shirts and had badges with the wrong year.  They were the AR's for all games on that field and basically only called the ball in and out of play.  He said the CR ever ran once.


i swear it wasn't me.


----------



## NumberTen (Jun 8, 2017)

I know that the association that we are a part of has a new ref mentoring program for the Rebels cup.  So hopefully they are using legit refes.


----------



## Surfref (Jun 8, 2017)

NumberTen said:


> I know that the association that we are a part of has a new ref mentoring program for the Rebels cup.  So hopefully they are using legit refes.


SDCSRA runs a very good and effective entry level referee mentoring program.


----------



## SocalSoccerMom (Jun 8, 2017)

Surfref said:


> Don't forget that Rebels backed out last year and used refs from down south that were much cheaper.  Heard from a friend who had a kid playing in the tournament that the refs were horrible.  Said he saw two teenage boys show up that were given yellow ref shirts and had badges with the wrong year.  They were the AR's for all games on that field and basically only called the ball in and out of play.  He said the CR ever ran once.


See I was not making things up


----------



## MWN (Jun 8, 2017)

baldref said:


> I don't know about this statement about wages...... I don't think the higher level tournaments pay any more than the "other" tournaments, unless you're talking about ECNL or DA. "better" referees take games based on higher level of play, or proximity to their homes, or allegiance to certain assignors or associations. Some people like cash on the field and some like saving up tournament monies in their ref pay accounts. Personally, I like the higher level games, even if it means a longer drive.


I see the lower end tournament wanting to pay about 1.40/minute and the better tournaments paying 1.60+ per minute.  Because the better referees often belong to multiple associations, they tend to go where the money is.  I know a few who won't touch the 1.40 per minute tournaments and leagues (i.e. Signature and Presidio) and some that will only work CSL Premier (1.70) or SCDSL (1.60) because they have other opportunities given their experience and relationship with certain politically connected assignors.


----------



## baldref (Jun 8, 2017)

MWN said:


> I see the lower end tournament wanting to pay about 1.40/minute and the better tournaments paying 1.60+ per minute.  Because the better referees often belong to multiple associations, they tend to go where the money is.  I know a few who won't touch the 1.40 per minute tournaments and leagues (i.e. Signature and Presidio) and some that will only work CSL Premier (1.70) or SCDSL (1.60) because they have other opportunities given their experience and relationship with certain politically connected assignors.


you're talking circuits, not tournaments. if i'm not mistaken, surf cup pays the same if not less than any other tournament i've done, other than an ecnl event. of course, i'm often mistaken.


----------



## baldref (Jun 8, 2017)

and like i stated before, i know of no referees that ever told me they would choose one tournament over another because of $.20 a minute. and i know a few referees. we want great games.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 8, 2017)

Not to mention many clubs/teams go on Break during the month of June.


----------

