# Bladed cleats on turf



## Surf Zombie (Feb 17, 2020)

During an indoor game last night my daughter was playing left back. Offensive player was running at her full speed trying to prevent her from clearing a ball. The offensive player snapped her lower leg or ankle as she tried to block the ball. No contact between the players. Looked like her plant foot stuck to the turf and twisted.

Pretty sure the girl who got hurt was wearing bladed cleats playing on indoor turf. Not sure if that was a factor, but can’t imagine it’s a good idea to wear anything but turf shoes on turf. Anyone else forbid their kids from wearing blades on turf? I see it all the time here in the winter.


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## sdb (Feb 17, 2020)

I will not let my DD play in bladed cleats on any surface. And when I buy any cleat with any pattern I take a grinder to them before she plays in them. I’d rather her slip than catch in the grass or turf. Nike has made a stud pattern called AG for artificial grass that I really like.  Unfortunately it’s offered on only a few models or has to be done via NikeID. Adidas Copas are also rounded.


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## timbuck (Feb 17, 2020)

Nike and Adidas (and probably puma and all of the others) are doing a real disservice to the majority of youth soccer players with the cleat pattern that they have on 80% of their model.  Bladed cleats are for the thick, manicured grass of the Premier league.  Maybe some youth teams in more northern areas have similar grass.  But I'm guessing they get pretty worn out from overuse like we get down here.
In So Cal, you are playing on one or more of the following:
Longer, newer Turf (Silverlakes turf fields)
Short, older turf (J Serra side fields)
Short Green Grass (Great Park nearly year round)
Longish green grass (San Bernardino is very playable)
Short brown grass (Galway in the winter)
Hard dirt with a little bit of grass (most middle school playground fields)

99% of your games will be played on a dry field.

No need for a bladed cleat for any of those surfaces.


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## Dof3 (Feb 17, 2020)

Completely agree.  My DD has firm ground "blade" cleats for grass and multi-ground cleats for turf.  She likes the blade cleats better because they are lighter, so I end up buying two pair at every size jump.  My unsupported perspective is that blade cleats - especially on turf - contribute to lower leg injuries.


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## pewpew (Feb 19, 2020)

Adidas Ace 15.1  Best stud pattern ever..on any surface. I don't know why they got rid of it. Copas are a distant second but still another good option. Good traction on any surface. No blades anywhere to be found on either of these boots. My .02


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## Giesbock (Feb 19, 2020)

This is great info. Thanks. Need to re-assess the Nike Merc my daughter prefers.


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## Paul Spacey (Feb 19, 2020)

I  don't know why there seems to be such resistance or ignorance of actual turf shoes (like Adidas Copa Mundial or Nike Tiempo TF). I've always worn Copa's on turf surfaces and never had any slipping issues or problems with getting caught in the turf (plus they are way more comfortable than cleats in general). When I talk to players about it, their response is usually "No, I need to wear cleats."

Like other posters have mentioned, the setup of cleats is not conducive to many of the turf or rock hard grass surfaces here in SoCal. IMO bladed cleats are the worst possible footwear (from an injury risk perspective) for turf and hard surfaces. Marketing and bullshit allows the big companies to sell these with seemingly little to no interest in the safety of players....but a lot of interest in $'s of course.


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## outside! (Feb 19, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> I  don't know why there seems to be such resistance or ignorance of actual turf shoes (like Adidas Copa Mundial or Nike Tiempo TF). I've always worn Copa's on turf surfaces and never had any slipping issues or problems with getting caught in the turf (plus they are way more comfortable than cleats in general). When I talk to players about it, their response is usually "No, I need to wear cleats."
> 
> Like other posters have mentioned, the setup of cleats is not conducive to many of the turf or rock hard grass surfaces here in SoCal. IMO bladed cleats are the worst possible footwear (from an injury risk perspective) for turf and hard surfaces. Marketing and bullshit allows the big companies to sell these with seemingly little to no interest in the safety of players....but a lot of interest in $'s of course.


I wonder if there are any studies showing a connection between bladed cleats and ACL tears?


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## Surf Zombie (Feb 19, 2020)

outside! said:


> I wonder if there are any studies showing a connection between bladed cleats and ACL tears?


Someone posted on here a while back (Surf Ref maybe?) about his experience as a referee and witnessing a lot of knee/leg injuries with blades on turf.


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## timbuck (Feb 19, 2020)

If a shoe company released a cleat with “proven to reduce acl injuries” they would fly off of the shelves.


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## Messi>CR7 (Feb 19, 2020)

Good info on this thread as I'm learning something new and useful.  Would you guys consider this a bladed cleat?  It's my boy's cleat and it has a mixture of the v-shaped studs and conical studs.


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## sdb (Feb 19, 2020)

My $0.02 is that this is not a bladed cleat. Our club wants the girls wearing Adidas so the shoe that fit her best has this pattern. Maybe I’m crazy, but I also used a grinder to make the front studs less of a triangle by sanding down the edges. As I said above I also took the out of the box length down. She wears these on grass primarily or on newer  turf fields that have a high “grass.” She wears a turf shoe on everything else.


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## timbuck (Feb 19, 2020)

Your club wants you to wear Adidas cleats?  Unless your player is getting free shoes, free uniforms and/or free soccer-  You should be able to wear whatever soccer shoe you want to wear.
Not all shoes fit all feet.  
I hate Nike shoes.  They don't fit me well and I feel their quality is crap.  I'm not gonna sacrifice potential injury by wearing a brand that doesn't fit me right.  Or maybe they have 1 shoe in their line that will fit -   but is 2x the price and the colors are ugly.


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## timbuck (Feb 19, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> I  don't know why there seems to be such resistance or ignorance of actual turf shoes (like Adidas Copa Mundial or Nike Tiempo TF). I've always worn Copa's on turf surfaces and never had any slipping issues or problems with getting caught in the turf (plus they are way more comfortable than cleats in general). When I talk to players about it, their response is usually "No, I need to wear cleats."
> 
> Like other posters have mentioned, the setup of cleats is not conducive to many of the turf or rock hard grass surfaces here in SoCal. IMO bladed cleats are the worst possible footwear (from an injury risk perspective) for turf and hard surfaces. Marketing and bullshit allows the big companies to sell these with seemingly little to no interest in the safety of players....but a lot of interest in $'s of course.


Maybe it's because of our age-  But Turf shoes are soooooo much more comfortable. I play in the Copa Mundials in my old man league (fake turf and short so-cal grass/dirt surfaces. Never had any issues with traction.  But maybe that's because my added weight forces them into the ground more than an 80 pound 13 year old would).  I cannot wear "normal" cleats any more.  Too much foot pain.


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## socalkdg (Feb 19, 2020)

Have you seen my daughter shoe shop?   She will try 10 things on and none will feel comfortable nor have the right look.   The kid is a pain to shop for.   Plus finding a store that has as many women shoes as men is impossible.   I don't even look at the cleat pattern on the bottom.   First shoe she says she wants, boom, I'm buying it.   Who has the biggest selection for women's soccer shoes?


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## outside! (Feb 19, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Your club wants you to wear Adidas cleats?  Unless your player is getting free shoes, free uniforms and/or free soccer-  You should be able to wear whatever soccer shoe you want to wear.
> Not all shoes fit all feet.
> I hate Nike shoes.  They don't fit me well and I feel their quality is crap.  I'm not gonna sacrifice potential injury by wearing a brand that doesn't fit me right.  Or maybe they have 1 shoe in their line that will fit -   but is 2x the price and the colors are ugly.


My players have wide feet. New Balance are the only cleats that fit them. Before New Balance offered soccer cleats DD was going through cleats faster than a pair a month.


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## outside! (Feb 19, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Have you seen my daughter shoe shop?   She will try 10 things on and none will feel comfortable nor have the right look.   The kid is a pain to shop for.   Plus finding a store that has as many women shoes as men is impossible.   I don't even look at the cleat pattern on the bottom.   First shoe she says she wants, boom, I'm buying it.   Who has the biggest selection for women's soccer shoes?


How old is she? DD has been wearing men's sizes since U13.


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## sdb (Feb 19, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Have you seen my daughter shoe shop?   She will try 10 things on and none will feel comfortable nor have the right look.   The kid is a pain to shop for.   Plus finding a store that has as many women shoes as men is impossible.   I don't even look at the cleat pattern on the bottom.   First shoe she says she wants, boom, I'm buying it.   Who has the biggest selection for women's soccer shoes?


When my kid was young we used Zappos a lot. Free shipping both ways. 4 boxes would show up at a time with different shoes and sizes. Shoe store at home...


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## sdb (Feb 19, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Your club wants you to wear Adidas cleats?  Unless your player is getting free shoes, free uniforms and/or free soccer-  You should be able to wear whatever soccer shoe you want to wear.
> Not all shoes fit all feet.
> I hate Nike shoes.  They don't fit me well and I feel their quality is crap.  I'm not gonna sacrifice potential injury by wearing a brand that doesn't fit me right.  Or maybe they have 1 shoe in their line that will fit -   but is 2x the price and the colors are ugly.


She is getting all 3 for free this year, so the club strongly encourages Adidas shoes.


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## jpeter (Feb 19, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Nike and Adidas (and probably puma and all of the others) are doing a real disservice to the majority of youth soccer players with the cleat pattern that they have on 80% of their model.  Bladed cleats are for the thick, manicured grass of the Premier league.  Maybe some youth teams in more northern areas have similar grass.  But I'm guessing they get pretty worn out from overuse like we get down here.
> In So Cal, you are playing on one or more of the following:
> Longer, newer Turf (Silverlakes turf fields)
> Short, older turf (J Serra side fields)
> ...


Yes those so-called speed boots like the Mercurials in specific, not kidding but seen at least a half dozen ankle stuck in injuries just during turf practice with those boots  (+2x teams on the fields)  one season on turf until the coaches pretty much banned bladed cleats at that field.


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## sdb (Feb 19, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> This is great info. Thanks. Need to re-assess the Nike Merc my daughter prefers.


If you daughter likes the Mercurials, you can get the Academy version ($110) from Nike.com and use NikeID to customize them. As part of the customization, you can pick the traction. If you select AG, you get a cleat with an all rounded stud pattern. You can also do a ton more customization which is fun. This will set you back $110 but you’ll have the Mercurial that you want. Here is a photo of the AG traction:


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## JV6 (Feb 19, 2020)

Lots of good info on this thread. Thanks everyone


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## Messi>CR7 (Feb 19, 2020)

outside! said:


> My players have wide feet. New Balance are the only cleats that fit them. Before New Balance offered soccer cleats DD was going through cleats faster than a pair a month.


Is New Balance the only brand that makes them in "wide" width?


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## msoccerm (Feb 20, 2020)

Nike Tiempos are great! Round studs.


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## outside! (Feb 20, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Is New Balance the only brand that makes them in "wide" width?


ASICS did at one time but I don't know if they still do. Those tended to have narrow heels however and for us required some creative stretching involving wood clamps.

My preference is for leather uppers and round studs.


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## Fact (Feb 20, 2020)

outside! said:


> My preference is for leather uppers and round studs.


I have not bought a pair of cleats in awhile.  What is the current state of the ban on kangaroo leather in Cali?
If your kiddo has a wide foot, even with a wide shoe, I would still suggest leather over synthetic which provides a lot more give in the toe box.


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## outside! (Feb 20, 2020)

Fact said:


> I have not bought a pair of cleats in awhile.  What is the current state of the ban on kangaroo leather in Cali?
> If your kiddo has a wide foot, even with a wide shoe, I would still suggest leather over synthetic which provides a lot more give in the toe box.


The kangaroo ban is still in effect as far as I know. Regular old cowhide seems to stretch enough to mold to my players' feet though. Luckily some of the wide New Balance cleats fit well even with synthetic uppers. Unfortunately since the cleats are always changing models over time, we always need to try-on multiple styles when it is time for new cleats. Soccerloco used to carry a selection of New Balance cleats, not sure if they do. With one player in college that does not have time to get to Soccerloco, we have to order on-line now.


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## mccorn (Feb 20, 2020)

As mentioned on this thread there is a real risk of injury wearing a stud pattern that is too aggressive for the surface. Also, the major brands will typically void their warranty when boots are worn on surfaces that they are not designed for (if they can prove it). 
Multi-Ground (MG) or Artificial-Ground (AG) cleats tend to have some small design elements that will make them more durable against the harsh surfaces that artificial grass offers.
The brands are doing our kids a disservice by offering a limited line of MG or AG options in the US, typically only available in the 2nd or 3rd take down models. The Nike Academy line is the only option in the brand at the moment offering MG options, and while they're not horrible, they're not the best quality either. 
Nike does have a good warranty, for up to 2 years from manufacture date. I used it a few times and have parlayed a single pair of boots into three through their warranty program. Most of the premature wear has been sole separation.


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## sdb (Feb 20, 2020)

mccorn said:


> As mentioned on this thread there is a real risk of injury wearing a stud pattern that is too aggressive for the surface. Also, the major brands will typically void their warranty when boots are worn on surfaces that they are not designed for (if they can prove it).
> Multi-Ground (MG) or Artificial-Ground (AG) cleats tend to have some small design elements that will make them more durable against the harsh surfaces that artificial grass offers.
> The brands are doing our kids a disservice by offering a limited line of MG or AG options in the US, typically only available in the 2nd or 3rd take down models. The Nike Academy line is the only option in the brand at the moment offering MG options, and while they're not horrible, they're not the best quality either.
> Nike does have a good warranty, for up to 2 years from manufacture date. I used it a few times and have parlayed a single pair of boots into three through their warranty program. Most of the premature wear has been sole separation.


Couldn’t agree more that the MG pattern is not the best but is better than many, and that it’s a shame AG isn’t offered on more models of Nikes out of the box. Like you I’ve also parlayed the warranty into new shoes or significant discounts, as Nike has always been pretty responsive to complaints. I think they know about their quality issues so don’t push back very much.


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## timbuck (Mar 1, 2020)

Following up on those comments about shoe separation-  
Parents, please keep an eye on your kids shoes and replace immediately if they are falling apart. 
And no-  duct tape is not a good idea.


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## outside! (Mar 2, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Following up on those comments about shoe separation-
> Parents, please keep an eye on your kids shoes and replace immediately if they are falling apart.
> And no-  duct tape is not a good idea.


Electrical tape works much better, it has some stretch. When DD was going through a pair more than once/month, she kept a roll in her backpack just in case. I used it to get her through a game once. Just don't make it too tight. We drove straight to Soccerloco right after that game.


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## espola (Mar 2, 2020)

outside! said:


> Electrical tape works much better, it has some stretch. When DD was going through a pair more than once/month, she kept a roll in her backpack just in case. I used it to get her through a game once. Just don't make it too tight. We drove straight to Soccerloco right after that game.


And colored electrical tape can be used on perfectly good cleats so that the best striker's feet show up well in a crowd.


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## sdb (Sep 28, 2020)

Reposting this in a shoe-specific thread; sorry about the duplicate posts.

Article from The Athletic re: NFL and turf-related injuries. NFL also tested specific cleat patterns and ranked from best to worst in terms of releasing when loaded. You can compare these to soccer cleat patterns.


*
*


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## lafalafa (Sep 28, 2020)




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## Sheriff Joe (Sep 28, 2020)

sdb said:


> Couldn’t agree more that the MG pattern is not the best but is better than many, and that it’s a shame AG isn’t offered on more models of Nikes out of the box. Like you I’ve also parlayed the warranty into new shoes or significant discounts, as Nike has always been pretty responsive to complaints. I think they know about their quality issues so don’t push back very much.


They have a great warranty, 2 years no matter where you buy them.
Nike Tiempos are great on turf and you can find them on EBay.


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## Surfref (Sep 28, 2020)

sdb said:


> I will not let my DD play in bladed cleats on any surface. And when I buy any cleat with any pattern I take a grinder to them before she plays in them. I’d rather her slip than catch in the grass or turf. Nike has made a stud pattern called AG for artificial grass that I really like.  Unfortunately it’s offered on only a few models or has to be done via NikeID. Adidas Copas are also rounded.


Addidas Copas are garbage and horrible for your feet.  When my DD was 13 she was having foot, leg and back pain and our Doctor referred us to a podiatrist.  The podiatrist had her bring in her cleats, Addidas Copas.  He said to throw them out and gave us a list of recommended soccer cleats.  He said the Copas are 30 years out of date, provide absolutely no support for the foot, and can cause foot, ankle, leg, hip and back pain.  He said even with inserts they are not recommended since there are so many better choice.


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## Surfref (Sep 28, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> They have a great warranty, 2 years no matter where you buy them.
> Nike Tiempos are great on turf and you can find them on EBay.


My daughter has used Tiempos for years.  Most of the college fields she played on were artificial turf and the Tiempos worked great.  They also held up really well.


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## mlx (Sep 28, 2020)

Nike Phantom Vision Elite in kids version have the MG pattern. They are wide, comfy and they are not takedowns.

They have been discontinued so there might be good deals online soon.






						Nike Kids Phantom VSN II Elite DF FG - White/Black/Laser Crimson - Firm Ground - Junior Soccer Cleats
					






					www.prodirectsoccer.com
				




BTW, they are not lacesess, so don't freak out about that.


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## outside! (Sep 29, 2020)

mlx said:


> Nike Phantom Vision Elite in kids version have the MG pattern. They are wide, comfy and they are not takedowns.
> 
> They have been discontinued so there might be good deals online soon.
> 
> ...


For players that actually need wide cleats, don't bother with Nike. New Balance makes the only somewhat readily available cleats in wide widths. Most of the cleats are shaped as polygons. I would prefer rounded studs, but you get what you get.


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## msoccerm (Sep 29, 2020)

Surfref said:


> My daughter has used Tiempos for years.  Most of the college fields she played on were artificial turf and the Tiempos worked great.  They also held up really well.


Thanks for that - did she wear Firm Ground (FG) or Artificial Grass (AG) Tiempos on the artificial turf?  It's so hard to find AG Tiempos. My daughter likes the Tiempos because of the rounded studs.


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## dad4 (Sep 30, 2020)

For artificial turf, any advice on rounded studs versus rubber sole with a deep pattern?


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## sdb (Sep 30, 2020)

dad4 said:


> For artificial turf, any advice on rounded studs versus rubber sole with a deep pattern?


For us, the answer depends on the quality of the turf. For newer, taller bladed AG fields, we tend to go with the round studs of the AG pattern offered by Nike. For older, short bladed or worn AG fields, then rubber soles with a deep pattern, either Nike or Adidas.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 30, 2020)

Surfref said:


> Addidas Copas are garbage and horrible for your feet.  When my DD was 13 she was having foot, leg and back pain and our Doctor referred us to a podiatrist.  The podiatrist had her bring in her cleats, Addidas Copas.  He said to throw them out and gave us a list of recommended soccer cleats.  He said the Copas are 30 years out of date, provide absolutely no support for the foot, and can cause foot, ankle, leg, hip and back pain.  He said even with inserts they are not recommended since there are so many better choice.


Just because Copas didn't work out for your daughter, it's not the right thing to say they are garbage. There is a reason why Copas have been on a market for so many years.


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## warrior49 (Sep 30, 2020)

Copas are like wearing a can of beer on each foot. Fortunately technology has progressed past 1979.


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## lancer (Oct 2, 2020)

bladed cleats are bad on most surfaces.  My DD detached her ACL with blades on firm ground grass at Lancaster.  I broke my fibula playing indoor with too much traction, tried to get a ball that crossed to the left with my right and snap.  If I had been wearing my turf shoes I would be slipping but I wouldn't  have had to drive home with a broken left leg in a truck that had a manual tranny!


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## Surfref (Oct 2, 2020)

msoccerm said:


> Thanks for that - did she wear Firm Ground (FG) or Artificial Grass (AG) Tiempos on the artificial turf?  It's so hard to find AG Tiempos. My daughter likes the Tiempos because of the rounded studs.


FG


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## Surfref (Oct 2, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Just because Copas didn't work out for your daughter, it's not the right thing to say they are garbage. There is a reason why Copas have been on a market for so many years.


I didn’t say they were garbage, but am repeating what a board certified podiatrist that worked with SD Chargers and SDSU sports said.  He was correct for my daughter and two other players we know that switched from Copas to another model.


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