# Do DOC/Club Presidents care about how coaches act on the sidelines?



## timbuck (Jun 17, 2018)

Does getting tossed from a game make club directors upset?  Or do they like the “passion”?
Do they care about coaches screaming like freaks at little kids?
Or do they only care if it impacts returning player$$ in the next sign up season?


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## Frank (Jun 17, 2018)

I’m sure all have different expectations, much like any boss would. Although, like any boss not all employees are treated the same. Those that produce get way more latitude than those that do not.


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## Fact (Jun 17, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Does getting tossed from a game make club directors upset?  Or do they like the “passion”?
> Do they care about coaches screaming like freaks at little kids?
> Or do they only care if it impacts returning player$$ in the next sign up season?


Replace "passion" with stupidity.  Getting ejected proves nothing and does not change how the refs call the game.


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## coachrefparent (Jun 17, 2018)

Obviously the DOCs of the idiot coaches either don't care or like what they are doing.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jun 17, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Does getting tossed from a game make club directors upset?  Or do they like the “passion”?
> Do they care about coaches screaming like freaks at little kids?
> Or do they only care if it impacts returning player$$ in the next sign up season?[/
> 
> ...


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## MWN (Jun 17, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Does getting tossed from a game make club directors upset?  Or do they like the “passion”?
> Do they care about coaches screaming like freaks at little kids?
> Or do they only care if it impacts returning player$$ in the next sign up season?


The DOCs I know do care.  They all have their own coaching style, but having been on the sideline as a parent and on the pitch as a Referee, I can say that the DOCs I have encountered all attempt to conduct themselves with proper sideline decorum and demand the same of their coaches.  Now, there are going to be coaches that say stuff and get frustrated and lose it from time to time.  There are coaches with "joystick" styles and coaches that that sit quietly and coaches in between.

I've seen some great coaches with styles that are wholly wrong for little kids (u12), but excel with U16+.  I've seen parents who leave teams because of the joystick coach and parents that think its the only true method of coaching.

With that said:
_Does getting tossed from a game make club directors upset? Or do they like the “passion”?_
Yes, especially if its league.  Leagues punish clubs and the DOCs and Directors have to deal with paperwork when coaches step over the line.

_Do they care about coaches screaming like freaks at little kids?_
Yes, see below.

_Or do they only care if it impacts returning player$$ in the next sign up season?_
Yes, money talks and B.S. walks.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jun 17, 2018)

MWN said:


> The DOCs I know do care.  They all have their own coaching style, but having been on the sideline as a parent and on the pitch as a Referee, I can say that the DOCs I have encountered all attempt to conduct themselves with proper sideline decorum and demand the same of their coaches.  Now, there are going to be coaches that say stuff and get frustrated and lose it from time to time.  There are coaches with "joystick" styles and coaches that that sit quietly and coaches in between.
> 
> I've seen some great coaches with styles that are wholly wrong for little kids (u12), but excel with U16+.  I've seen parents who leave teams because of the joystick coach and parents that think its the only true method of coaching.
> 
> ...


Dam, your lightening quick!


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## ajaffe (Jun 18, 2018)

Of course they care, but this is such a loaded question.

I've been tossed three times. One time was because I didn't understand Spanish so when he told me that if I spoke again he'd toss me, I spoke again and he tossed me. I can truthfully say all I did was repeat the question, "is sliding in with the bottom of your foot up not a foul?" Nothing too egregious.

He also kicked out the other coach and their manager. We watched the rest game together on a hill. It was nice.

One of the DOCs told me to learn Spanish so I've been doing so.


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## Monkey (Jun 18, 2018)

ajaffe said:


> Of course they care, but this is such a loaded question.


So then why does your DOC tolerate Joe?


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## coachrefparent (Jun 18, 2018)

ajaffe said:


> I can truthfully say all I did was repeat the question, "is sliding in with the bottom of your foot up not a foul?" Nothing too egregious.


Hopefully he answered your question, "No, not necessarily."


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## ajaffe (Jun 18, 2018)

Monkey said:


> So then why does your DOC tolerate Joe?


He teaches me Spanish.



coachrefparent said:


> Hopefully he answered your question, "No, not necessarily."


Eh, I don't really need to justify anything, but generally when I ask questions it is usually warranted. The player in question had her sole plate go through my player's calf on a slide tackle early on, and did it again into another's ankle. The other coach buttered him up a few minutes before and made him stop the game to yell at him, so I didn't do myself any favors by being the next one to say anything.


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## Monkey (Jun 18, 2018)

ajaffe said:


> He teaches me Spanish.
> .


You rated my post as a winner. So I cannot tell whether you are being serious or not?  You are a very well liked coach both in club and high school. Joe is not. So why does SDSC keep him around? Have you heard the screaming and poor sportsmanship or seen the aggressive and dangerous  kick ball he encourages?


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## coachrefparent (Jun 18, 2018)

ajaffe said:


> Eh, I don't really need to justify anything, but generally when I ask questions it is usually warranted. The player in question had her sole plate go through my player's calf on a slide tackle early on, and did it again into another's ankle. The other coach buttered him up a few minutes before and made him stop the game to yell at him, so I didn't do myself any favors by being the next one to say anything.


Oh, that's a totally different description than the post I responded to. Are these little children or teens?


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## ajaffe (Jun 18, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> Oh, that's a totally different description than the post I responded to. Are these little children or teens?


I'm trying to be vague on purpose, but the player knew what they were doing. It was a club game and the AR vouched for me in a way by letting the tournament director know I didn't say or do anything out of line. I guess the whole point of my story is that it is really easy to get tossed if someone is having a bad day, or they don't like the way you look, or if it's hot outside, etcetera. So I can see where it'd be tough for a DOC to come down too harsh on someone, unless there is a repeated pattern.



Monkey said:


> You rated my post as a winner. So I cannot tell whether you are being serious or not?  You are a very well liked coach both in club and high school. Joe is not. So why does SDSC keep him around? Have you heard the screaming and poor sportsmanship or seen the aggressive and dangerous  kick ball he encourages?


I really appreciate the kind words. Thank you!

I tend to focus on my deficiencies to try and fix my own shortcomings. I have a lot of them so it keeps me busy. Sorry I can't be of more help.


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## Fact (Jun 19, 2018)

ajaffe said:


> I'm trying to be vague on purpose, but the player knew what they were doing. It was a club game and the AR vouched for me in a way by letting the tournament director know I didn't say or do anything out of line. I guess the whole point of my story is that it is really easy to get tossed if someone is having a bad day, or they don't like the way you look, or if it's hot outside, etcetera. So I can see where it'd be tough for a DOC to come down too harsh on someone, unless there is a repeated pattern.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are too politically correct.  But what you are not saying says it all.

I agree with M that you are one of the more respected coaches around and that is for a good reason.  One obvious difference between you and Joe is that you care that you were tossed out while Joe claims that is shows passion.


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## Surfref (Jun 19, 2018)

ajaffe said:


> Of course they care, but this is such a loaded question.
> 
> I've been tossed three times. One time was because I didn't understand Spanish so when he told me that if I spoke again he'd toss me, I spoke again and he tossed me. I can truthfully say all I did was repeat the question, "is sliding in with the bottom of your foot up not a foul?" Nothing too egregious.
> 
> ...


We know it wasn't me because I only speak food and profanity Spanish.  If I was there, I would have joined you on the hill in the shade and called the game from there 

When I have done your games you have always been calm, so when you have yelled something at me it made me actually reevaluate what I called or didn't call.  When I have done Joe's games he does not say much to me only to his players.  I have heard complaints from other referees about Brian and Raffi, but I have never had problems with them yelling at me.  I have found that the majority of SDSC coaches are respectful to the referees.  IMO coaches that are constantly on the referee do themselves a disservice, since when they do need to say something of importance to the referee the referee is probably going to continue to tune them out.


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## Socal United (Jun 19, 2018)

Surfref said:


> We know it wasn't me because I only speak food and profanity Spanish.  If I was there, I would have joined you on the hill in the shade and called the game from there
> 
> When I have done your games you have always been calm, so when you have yelled something at me it made me actually reevaluate what I called or didn't call.  When I have done Joe's games he does not say much to me only to his players.  I have heard complaints from other referees about Brian and Raffi, but I have never had problems with them yelling at me.  I have found that the majority of SDSC coaches are respectful to the referees.  IMO coaches that are constantly on the referee do themselves a disservice, since when they do need to say something of importance to the referee the referee is probably going to continue to tune them out.


Let's be honest, yelling at the referees and kids is just too tiring.  Plus, you don't really get the desired effect.  I had been thrown out enough in the past that my wife decided to get her license, just in case she was needed.  I can say that 100% of my red cards have been because I can be a smart ass, it is a character flaw of mine.  I am proud that is has probably been 7-8 years since my last one, I am getting too old to expend that energy as I only coach the ulittles and they require all of my energy just to keep them focused on the game on not fortnite dancing.  Floss=laps....  

As for your issue Monkey with JM, everyone is not for everyone.  Some want that, some don't care, and some do care and those need to move on.  For every coach that yells, there is a coach that doesn't yell enough(I hear that a lot from parent complaints).  I think we all get that you don't like him but to ask why you have to go to the top.  I am speaking only as myself, maybe results over demeanor?  If this wasn't a results based business, maybe things would be different.  You and I both know it is, and that to me is the worst part about all of this.  

Surfref, have you ever thrown Brian out?  I have coached his kids, he has coached mine, and somehow the man gets away with what would get me tossed in an instant.  I assume it is the accent..   He is a genius at getting to that point of and then relenting.


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## Surfref (Jun 19, 2018)

Socal United said:


> ....Surfref, have you ever thrown Brian out?  I have coached his kids, he has coached mine, and somehow the man gets away with what would get me tossed in an instant.  I assume it is the accent..   He is a genius at getting to that point of and then relenting.


No, he has never even gotten close to me even having to talk to him during a game.  He has filled in for another coach that lost his mind and I had to ask him to leave.  Brian took over and the game resumed with no further problems.  I did laugh at one of his comments a few years ago.  He yelled at his HS players something along the lines of, "Girls stop fouling.  You are making it to easy for the ref to call fouls on you.  I want him to have to work for his money."


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## baldref (Jun 19, 2018)

Surfref said:


> No, he has never even gotten close to me even having to talk to him during a game.  He has filled in for another coach that lost his mind and I had to ask him to leave.  Brian took over and the game resumed with no further problems.  I did laugh at one of his comments a few years ago.  He yelled at his HS players something along the lines of, "Girls stop fouling.  You are making it to easy for the ref to call fouls on you.  I want him to have to work for his money."


The man is hilarious when I can understand what he’s saying


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## Socal United (Jun 19, 2018)

baldref said:


> The man is hilarious when I can understand what he’s saying


That is why he gets away with what he does....


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## baldref (Jun 19, 2018)

Socal United said:


> That is why he gets away with what he does....


I’ve never seen him be abusive or cross the line. Sarcastic, a little whiney, condescending, yeah. I don’t toss coaches  very often and it’s always for abuse. Or berating an AR. Complaining is usually ok especially if it’s done creatively. 
Of course, I’m really really good so they don’t have much to complain about


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## timbuck (Jun 19, 2018)

Do refs keep a "blacklist" of worst offenders?  And/or - do you try to take or avoid games when you know if a coach has a "reputation"?


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## MWN (Jun 20, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Do refs keep a "blacklist" of worst offenders?  And/or - do you try to take or avoid games when you know if a coach has a "reputation"?


Not a blacklist per se, but if there is a known problem or previous issue with a coach (_i.e. super high maintenance, whiny Pre-Maddona (generally with an English/Irish/Scottish accent_)) coordinators try to put Referees that can handle the guy, but sometimes the Coordinator just doesn't know who the coach will be for teams.  The worse offenders have reputations that do precede them.

What happens in pregame is the Referees sit down and discuss expectations, which includes known issues with players and coaches/administrators.  If there is a coach with tendencies to display poor behaviors, we will even talk to the coaches before hand and let them know indirectly they are on a short leash.  But at the end of the day, we all understand that stepping over the line with a little passion is part of the game, just don't do it in a manner that exacerbates poor behavior on the field.


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## Surfref (Jun 20, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Do refs keep a "blacklist" of worst offenders?  And/or - do you try to take or avoid games when you know if a coach has a "reputation"?


Not really a blacklist.  Coach are different with different refs.  One coach may be an a-hole in the morning game to Baldref and nice to me in the afternoon game or vice versa.  I have worked with referees that have told me in the pregame that a coach is a jerk, but during the game I have no problem with them.  The coaches that know me know that I will not tolerate getting yelled at and will address the yelling at the referee crew very early in the game.  Those coaches just don't yell at me or if they do yell something it is not constant, repetitive or disrespectful.  There are a few coaches that when I see that I have their team I know I must address their yelling early or it will persist and get louder.  The last thing any referee wants to do is eject a coach.  We have to fill out a report and it usually impacts the players.  Profanity from a coach toward a coach, player, spectator or referee is an instant ejection.  Profanity from a coach during a youth game will not be tolerated.

As for the trying to avoid games with a certain coach.  That is usually not possible for club games since the assigner send us multiple game assignments usually before the tournament schedule is even posted.  For fall league, I have requested a couple times to have my game assignments changed to avoid a coach that I ejected recently.  The assigners understood and moved me.


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## watfly (Jun 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> _whiny Pre-Maddona (generally with an English/Irish/Scottish accent_))


There are coaches that act like Cher with a foreign accent?  That's truly troubling.  Sorry MWN I couldn't resist being a smart ass.


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## espola (Jun 20, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Do refs keep a "blacklist" of worst offenders?  And/or - do you try to take or avoid games when you know if a coach has a "reputation"?


High school coaches are allowed to black-ball refs they really don't like.


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## Surfref (Jun 20, 2018)

espola said:


> High school coaches are allowed to black-ball refs they really don't like.


 And HS referees are allowed to block three teams and three locations, so those blocks can be used to block a specific coach.  I use all six of my blocks.  Most of my blocks are used to avoid a conflict of interest but I do have one block in place because to avoid a specific coach.  And, don't ask who it is because I will not tell you.


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## espola (Jun 20, 2018)

Surfref said:


> And HS referees are allowed to block three teams and three locations, so those blocks can be used to block a specific coach.  I use all six of my blocks.  Most of my blocks are used to avoid a conflict of interest but I do have one block in place because to avoid a specific coach.  And, don't ask who it is because I will not tell you.


Because of my overlapping roles as parent, club official, and high school volunteer, I sometimes interact with coaches in one arena who have upset me in another.  I once had a HS coach apologize to me while I was gathering rosters before a game - but he apologized for the issue where I just laughed at him, not the one where he pissed me off.


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## Fact (Jun 28, 2018)

Fact said:


> You are too politically correct.  But what you are not saying says it all.
> 
> I agree with M that you are one of the more respected coaches around and that is for a good reason.  One obvious difference between you and Joe is that you care that you were tossed out while Joe claims that is shows passion.


Why would Joe bother to keep this thread going by disliking this post today?  Makes me wonder if he is all there.


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## Multi Sport (Jun 28, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Does getting tossed from a game make club directors upset?  Or do they like the “passion”?
> Do they care about coaches screaming like freaks at little kids?
> Or do they only care if it impacts returning player$$ in the next sign up season?


Only if someone complains about the coach...


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