# Your Club Soccer Dues ARE going way up next year



## oh canada (Sep 12, 2019)

Thank the CA legislature's latest brilliant idea with passing AB 5 and about to be signed by the governor.  Lawyers on this board please chime in, but I'm fairly certain that most soccer club coaches are now independent contractors.  And, after Jan 1, as I interpret the bill, clubs will have to classify all as employees, paying them a minimum wage, benefits, workers comp, health insurance, unemployment, etc.  Yes, all coaches will have to be employees of their respective club.  I don't see an exception carved out for sports clubs/teams.  Maybe coaches will be told to set up their own LLC's to avoid it? 

If accurate, that additional cost will certainly be passed through to the paying customer in the form of higher fees/dues.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Senate-passes-AB5-gig-work-bill-turning-14430204.php


----------



## foreveryoung (Sep 12, 2019)

From what I know, most clubs transitioned their coaches to employees several years ago.  Coaches would not currently classify as independent contractors under existing employment laws.  There may be some smaller clubs not following those laws but I would bet the larger clubs are already compliant as there's too much at stake.  I'm open to the idea I might be wrong though.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Sep 12, 2019)

Our club made the transition this past year and already passed on the cost to us.


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 12, 2019)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Our club made the transition this past year and already passed on the cost to us.


What is the difference in numbers?


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Sep 13, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> What is the difference in numbers?


Hard to say.  There has been increase in fees over the past few years so hard to say how much was attributed to the actual change of coaches transitioning to W2.


----------



## Socal United (Sep 13, 2019)

The change in fees has a lot to do with fields more than anything else.  In SD, field costs have skyrocketed and some of the school districts have quadrupled their cost to rent fields.  The problem is, the city, county, schools, etc know they have you and there is no way to cap what they can charge.


----------



## espola (Sep 13, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Thank the CA legislature's latest brilliant idea with passing AB 5 and about to be signed by the governor.  Lawyers on this board please chime in, but I'm fairly certain that most soccer club coaches are now independent contractors.  And, after Jan 1, as I interpret the bill, clubs will have to classify all as employees, paying them a minimum wage, benefits, workers comp, health insurance, unemployment, etc.  Yes, all coaches will have to be employees of their respective club.  I don't see an exception carved out for sports clubs/teams.  Maybe coaches will be told to set up their own LLC's to avoid it?
> 
> If accurate, that additional cost will certainly be passed through to the paying customer in the form of higher fees/dues.
> 
> https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Senate-passes-AB5-gig-work-bill-turning-14430204.php


The coaches's salaries I knew about were already well above minimum wage, and the requirements for benefits, etc, generally don't apply to part-time employees with the same force as to full-time employees.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Sep 13, 2019)

RIP 30% of clubs.


----------



## davin (Sep 13, 2019)

My kid’s club switched to this model, where all club coaches are employees of the club, a few years ago. There was no significant change is club fees after they made this switch. As someone mentioned above, most coaches are part time employees and are not entitled to benefits. No need to panic.


----------



## MWN (Sep 13, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Thank the CA legislature's latest brilliant idea with passing AB 5 and about to be signed by the governor.  Lawyers on this board please chime in, but I'm fairly certain that most soccer club coaches are now independent contractors.  And, after Jan 1, as I interpret the bill, clubs will have to classify all as employees, paying them a minimum wage, benefits, workers comp, health insurance, unemployment, etc.  Yes, all coaches will have to be employees of their respective club.  I don't see an exception carved out for sports clubs/teams.  Maybe coaches will be told to set up their own LLC's to avoid it?
> 
> If accurate, that additional cost will certainly be passed through to the paying customer in the form of higher fees/dues.
> 
> https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Senate-passes-AB5-gig-work-bill-turning-14430204.php


Virtually all of the "major" clubs have treated their coaches as W-2 employees for the last few years.  The only clubs that may be impacted are the smaller inner-city clubs that don't follow most of the employment laws as it stands and their coaches are parents who basically volunteer, which would make them exempt.  This law won't have much of an impact because coaches have never really been the target of the gig economy.

In addition, all clubs are 501(c)(3) non-profits.  Nothing stopping a guy from "volunteering" his time to the non-profit and the non-profit from paying a per diem or other compensation/reimbursement.  So, no, clubs fees are not going up because of this.  Non-issue for youth soccer clubs.


----------



## espola (Sep 13, 2019)

davin said:


> My kid’s club switched to this model, where all club coaches are employees of the club, a few years ago. There was no significant change is club fees after they made this switch. As someone mentioned above, most coaches are part time employees and are not entitled to benefits. No need to panic.


The big change in Federal law on hiring consultants instead of employees as it applied to people in the tech industries where I was working happened in the mid-80's.  We suddenly "hired" a few employees who had been working for us as contractors for years.  I straddled the line myself for a few years around the year 2000, where I jumped back and forth between no-benefits contractor and full-benefits employee more than once, depending on how the accountants and lawyers in HR ruled each year.   That company's criterion was that if I worked more than 1000 hours in a calendar year my status was subject to review.  Depending on how one valued the benefits package vs. higher hourly pay, I got a pay raise on every transition.


----------



## Surfref (Sep 13, 2019)

Any idea if this will have any affect on referees that are considered independent contractors?


----------



## softwaretest (Sep 13, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> What is the difference in numbers?


I'm not an accountant or a tax attorney, but I'd estimate at least 15% of their pay.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Sep 14, 2019)

There is some impact for a club switching their coaches from 1099 to W-2.  Employer FICA tax rates need to be considered (7.65%) that the club has to pay.  This is a benefit for the coaches since (in theory) they would be paying the full 15.3% as self-employed 1099 workers.  Not sure whether clubs will try to recoup the cost from coaches by paying them less after a W-2 switch.


----------



## Justus (Sep 15, 2019)

espola said:


> The big change in Federal law on hiring consultants instead of employees as it applied to people in the tech industries where I was working happened in the mid-80's.  We suddenly "hired" a few employees who had been working for us as contractors for years.  I straddled the line myself for a few years around the year 2000, where I jumped back and forth between no-benefits contractor and full-benefits employee more than once, depending on how the accountants and lawyers in HR ruled each year.   That company's criterion was that if I worked more than 1000 hours in a calendar year my status was subject to review.  Depending on how one valued the benefits package vs. higher hourly pay, I got a pay raise on every transition.


The burden is on the Employer to classify properly.  If your wearing their shirt, have a biz card for the club with club email and they tell you want to do, meaning your not free to do what you want, then 100% employee.  If coach on his own time does privates, then he is independent contractor and he has his own part time gig after hours.


----------



## Justus (Sep 15, 2019)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> There is some impact for a club switching their coaches from 1099 to W-2.  Employer FICA tax rates need to be considered (7.65%) that the club has to pay.  This is a benefit for the coaches since (in theory) they would be paying the full 15.3% as self-employed 1099 workers.  Not sure whether clubs will try to recoup the cost from coaches by paying them less after a W-2 switch.


State of CA wants a piece of the action and they should in this case.


----------



## Justus (Sep 15, 2019)

Justus said:


> State of CA wants a piece of the action and they should in this case.


But the club will most likely 100% pass the cost to us.  So instead of spending $50,000 over 5 years, it will now cost $60,000.  With CA killing us on gas tax every freaking year, it's best to do your best to get to AZ before you pump up in Blythe.  I was wondering why I would see all these tow truck with gas cans helping poor soccer parents in their vini vans on the side of the dessert road on empty


----------



## Justus (Sep 15, 2019)

gCoat stories need to be shared.  It's not fair to bash them all.  My "greatest COACH of all time" goes to my dd HS Varsity Track Coach.  He's one of those coaches that teach kids valuable listens early in life.  I will love to one day share our only email exchanges.  He has team rules like coach Wooden.  We all remember the Bill Walton story and his desire to have facial hair, right?  Well, this coach had rules too.  Right before CIF, my little goat broke one of his rules.  She was suspended for the rest of the season (CIF Pre something) for breaking one freaking rule.  I emailed that guy and told him everyone deserves a second chance and for what she did deserved one.  He said, "no."  Well, I emailed him back and shared how this could make her look bad.  He said she needs to learn this lesson now.  I looked at the crime she committed and thought it was petty.  My only analogy would be if DEA agents ran a sting in a park in Colorado and arrested an 18 year old dude smoking some grass.  Then the van shows up and hauls his ass off to that Federal Prison in NY where that dude was that killed himself, allegedly.  But you know what, it was the best thing that ever happened to her and when I see and actually meet him for the first time I will give him a Big Hug!!!!


----------



## Soccer43 (Sep 15, 2019)

SB5 changes what has been in place before regarding independent contractors.  If the individual performs work that is within the realm of the usual course of business by the hiring entity then they cannot be hired as an independent contractor.  There are very very few businesses and professions that are allowed exceptions. It was based on a law suit by independent contractors of Dynamex Operations West, Inc_.  
_


----------



## Justus (Sep 15, 2019)

Justus said:


> gCoat stories need to be shared.  It's not fair to bash them all.  My "greatest COACH of all time" goes to my dd HS Varsity Track Coach.  He's one of those coaches that teach kids valuable listens early in life.  I will love to one day share our only email exchanges.  He has team rules like coach Wooden.  We all remember the Bill Walton story and his desire to have facial hair, right?  Well, this coach had rules too.  Right before CIF, my little goat broke one of his rules.  She was suspended for the rest of the season (CIF Pre something) for breaking one freaking rule.  I emailed that guy and told him everyone deserves a second chance and for what she did deserved one.  He said, "no."  Well, I emailed him back and shared how this could make her look bad.  He said she needs to learn this lesson now.  I looked at the crime she committed and thought it was petty.  My only analogy would be if DEA agents ran a sting in a park in Colorado and arrested an 18 year old dude smoking some grass.  Then the van shows up and hauls his ass off to that Federal Prison in NY where that dude was that killed himself, allegedly.  But you know what, it was the best thing that ever happened to her and when I see and actually meet him for the first time I will give him a Big Hug!!!!


Keep in mine my little goat never been to public school before.  Went to charter (Prep, no outside influence if you know what I mean), mandatory uniforms for all (saved me a lot of money) and 100% all about getting into college.  70 kids in your whole 2022 class and 10 students in a classroom with a computer and all that stuff.  Her classes now have 36 per room, plus they HAVE to take math for three years.  This is a problem and I love math but not that subject.  When I went to High School, it was one and done and it did not have to be Algebra.  Just one  freaking year in the 80s.  Now 3?  We need this fixed quickly imho.  I don't see the rules changing anytime soon.  However, I do have one idea. Take the smartest 12 and the weaker 12 and put 3 groups of 12 together.  Let the smart one lead the group and then they all get a group grade.  Geometry to many girls & boys is discouraging and depressing.  I have to now go pay for a tutor for something she will never , ever use in her life.  How about a class on Accounting.  How to manage and use money as a tool in life.  Money always get's bad rap.  Someone once said, "money is the root of all evil."  Money is not evil, it's usually the root where the evil is.  Money get's blamed for everything and its not fair to all the money.  Thank God money doesn't have any feelings    It's not their fault their called "Money."  Money is NOT EVIL!!!!!


----------



## Justus (Sep 15, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> SB5 changes what has been in place before regarding independent contractors.  If the individual performs work that is within the realm of the usual course of business by the hiring entity then they cannot be hired as an independent contractor.  There are very very few businesses and professions that are allowed exceptions. It was based on a law suit by independent contractors of Dynamex Operations West, Inc_.  _


Bingo!!!


----------



## twoclubpapa (Sep 15, 2019)

MWN said:


> ..... In addition, all clubs are 501(c)(3) non-profits.  Nothing stopping a guy from "volunteering" his time to the non-profit and the non-profit from paying a per diem or other compensation/reimbursement.  So, no, clubs fees are not going up because of this.  Non-issue for youth soccer clubs.


I suggest a consultation with an attorney familiar with the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) and IRS guidance before paying "volunteers" anything.   It's an easy way to turn a "volunteer" into an employee.


----------



## espola (Sep 16, 2019)

twoclubpapa said:


> I suggest a consultation with an attorney familiar with the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) and IRS guidance before paying "volunteers" anything.   It's an easy way to turn a "volunteer" into an employee.


If you have receipts (or even handwritten mileage records) then it is just reimbursement of expenses.  If it is for time, it's salary.

I asked our club President (a lawyer and CPA) once if I could get expenses reimbursed for travel to Lancaster to support our club's teams in State Cup, since I was VP of the club's BOD at the time.  He laughed at me and said "Only if you go when your kids aren't playing".


----------

