# Turning Pro at 13



## sdb (Feb 25, 2019)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/25/sports/olivia-moultrie-us-soccer.html


----------



## espola (Feb 25, 2019)

sdb said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/25/sports/olivia-moultrie-us-soccer.html


Marinovich syndrome.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Feb 25, 2019)

espola said:


> Marinovich syndrome.


Stop making me agree with you.


----------



## LadiesMan217 (Feb 25, 2019)

espola said:


> Marinovich syndrome.


This is going to be interesting to watch play out over the years.


----------



## electrichead72 (Feb 25, 2019)

Seems like a huge mistake to me. One bad injury and all that more than likely goes away. Even a small, nagging one can cause enough problems to lose that.

With FIFA rules she can't play in Europe anyway. Doesn't seem like a smart decision to me.


----------



## Paul Spacey (Feb 25, 2019)

When you read the word "phenom" in an article about a young athlete, they often don't make it nearly as far as expected (partly because the path to the top is so rocky with too many variables to call it with any certainty at 18, nevermind 13!)

Good luck to her though; I hope it works out.


----------



## Soccer43 (Feb 25, 2019)

What is wrong with her parents?


----------



## Surf Zombie (Feb 26, 2019)

So where does she play for next few years?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Feb 26, 2019)

Wishing her nothing but good fortune.


----------



## espola (Feb 26, 2019)

Surf Zombie said:


> So where does she play for next few years?


High school?


----------



## 2soccerplayersmom (Feb 26, 2019)

https://www.oregonlive.com//portland-thorns/2019/02/13-year-old-phenom-olivia-moultrie-to-move-to-portland-to-join-thorns-developmental-academy.html


----------



## jose (Feb 26, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> What is wrong with her parents?


it seems like they cant wait for greatness to happen. She is better than every kid her age and a year or two older but going against grown women who depend on soccer for their living things might get real.(if that is how this works)   I hope she has a Tiger Woods type career and not a Freddy Adu


----------



## MarkM (Feb 26, 2019)

jose said:


> it seems like they cant wait for greatness to happen. She is better than every kid her age and a year or two older but going against grown women who depend on soccer for their living things might get real.(if that is how this works)   I hope she has a Tiger Woods type career and not a Freddy Adu


I'm sure she is spectacular for her age, but I've never seen her really stand out in DA games at u16/u17.  Maybe a half dozen players on her own team look as good or better.  The comparison is a little unfair because she is so young, but  I think that shows why this is so vastly premature.  

I think these arrangements with Nike create a lot of conflicts of interest with US Soccer.  Nike dumps a lot of money into women's soccer, which is great.  But Nike's marketing team shouldn't dictate national team players, which this type of thing tacitly does.


----------



## MarkM (Feb 26, 2019)

2soccerplayersmom said:


> https://www.oregonlive.com//portland-thorns/2019/02/13-year-old-phenom-olivia-moultrie-to-move-to-portland-to-join-thorns-developmental-academy.html


Nike!


----------



## futboldad1 (Feb 26, 2019)

Exciting for the kid! I wish her well and hope it all works out!


----------



## socalkdg (Feb 26, 2019)

MarkM said:


> I'm sure she is spectacular for her age, but I've never seen her really stand out in DA games at u16/u17.  Maybe a half dozen players on her own team look as good or better.  The comparison is a little unfair because she is so young, but  I think that shows why this is so vastly premature.
> 
> I think these arrangements with Nike create a lot of conflicts of interest with US Soccer.  Nike dumps a lot of money into women's soccer, which is great.  But Nike's marketing team shouldn't dictate national team players, which this type of thing tacitly does.


Playing on that team at age of 13.   If you can play 3 years up on a DA team and still be good you are light years ahead of the competition.  Looking at the stats she had a 3 goal game, and a number of 1 goal games.   Plus people want to pay her 200K per year now.   Figure she pockets at least a half a million worst case scenario.   Best case she makes  a million before she is 18.


----------



## SoccerMom05 (Feb 26, 2019)

Wishing Olivia all the best. She is a sweet and humble kid from my interactions with her at our club. An inspiration to all young girls..


----------



## timbuck (Feb 26, 2019)

I hope this works out for her and everyone else involved.
I'm a little confused-  She is joining the Portland Thorns Development Academy but she has a sponsorship deal with Nike?  Can youth/amateur players have a corporate sponsor?  Is she turning "pro" or is she playing in the DA?
At the age of 13, she might be able to play at this level. My fear would be the maturity level of a 7th grader playing with high school or older aged players.  The locker room talk.  The things that 17 year girls experience is much different than what a 7th/8th grade girl deals with. The way they train.  The muscle development.  Their interest in boys, music, etc is very different.
This isn't Tiger Woods or Serena and Venus Williams playing in a mostly individual sport where they can be somewhat isolated from the world of older teenagers/young adults.
I would also worry about these possible health/safety issues:
1.  Overzealous parents of competitors -  This girl will have a target on her back at every game she plays from now on.
2.  Overzealous coaches of competitors -  Not that they would try to hurt her.  But she'll probably find herself being double and triple teamed in many games.
3.  Overuse Injury -  Training to be a pro at 13 years old can put a lot of demand on a young body. I don't know where shes at on the puberty scale, but lots of things happen around this age.  And shes also go to live up to her sponsorship commitment.  What if  she needs to take a month off, but is pressured to return in 3 weeks because Nike will be filming at a showcase?


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Feb 26, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> What is wrong with her parents?


That was my first reaction as well.  Then again, if she continue her education, and a few years from now is able to get accepted to her college of choice by her own academic merit, why not?  It seems she will make more than enough from this Nike deal to pay for any undergraduate and even graduate school if she chooses to.

I'm sure her parents know what's best for her than we do.  If my kids have a chance to make a million dollars before turning 18, and are not dropping out of school to do so, and is their (not my) choice to do so, I'm all for it.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Feb 26, 2019)

socalkdg said:


> Plus people want to pay her 200K per year now.   Figure she pockets at least a half a million worst case scenario.   Best case she makes  a million before she is 18.


I'm guessing the parents put a pretty low value on their kid getting to have a life as a kid.  I think they've made good moves all the way up until this point.  But trying to go pro this early is premature.


----------



## Chalklines (Feb 26, 2019)

even if she doesn't make it and flames out shes well ahead in life financially .

for shits and giggles lets say her deal is for $400k . She puts all of that in a pathetic savings account that yields 3% interest for 6 years until shes 18. Shes making $12k year on interest primarily focusing on soccer, while a normal kid would need to work 800 hrs at $15hr just to make $12k. The girls going to be just fine and have nice nest egg to start life after sports.


----------



## outside! (Feb 26, 2019)

The NYT article contains an error.

"Just two members of the current United States women’s national team, for instance, have walked away from college scholarship offers for professional opportunities. Mallory Pugh was 19 when she did it two years ago, joining the N.W.S.L.’s Washington Spirit before ever suiting up for U.C.L.A."

I saw Mallory Pugh play with MAP's daughter for UCLA against UNLV in a friendly in January of 2016 (I think the year is correct). She was definitely wearing the UCLA kit and was amazing.


----------



## socalkdg (Feb 26, 2019)

Imagine Sanchez, Pugh and Mace on the pitch together.   Wow.  Oh well.


----------



## Dos Equis (Feb 26, 2019)

It is not for lack of talent that so many child prodigies/stars crash and burn --  it is being thrust into adult situations without the maturity, life experience, or foresight to make good choices.  

I wish her good fortune.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Feb 26, 2019)

I'm a little confused.  She isn't a consistent starter on the U15 GNT.  How has it been determined that she is capable of being a pro?  I'm 100% certain that she wouldn't see minutes on my kid's college team and might not even be able to keep up in practice.  Am I missing something?  Now I admit that I haven't seen film of her but with the physicality of the women's D1 game (let alone the pro game) how do they expect a 13 year old to compete?  I doubt that she could keep up with the speed of play (the speed of play in U18 GDA games isn't even sufficient to keep up with the top 25 D1 teams).  This is either a hoax, some marketing scam or some serious overhyped fake news.  My reading of Anson's statement makes me think that he isn't sure if the money is sufficient.  The NY Times is clearly making an assumption about what the details of the contract are so I am curious as to what it truly entails.  I guess that we will see when a commercial comes out. 

Please post it if you have seen a commercial specifically for her.  That little clip at the end of the Nike commercial is cute but amounts to nothing.


----------



## Dos Equis (Feb 26, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> I'm a little confused.  She isn't a consistent starter on the U15 GNT.  How has it been determined that she is capable of being a pro?  I'm 100% certain that she wouldn't see minutes on my kid's college team and might not even be able to keep up in practice.  Am I missing something?  Now I admit that I haven't seen film of her but with the physicality of the women's D1 game (let alone the pro game) how do they expect a 13 year old to compete?  I doubt that she could keep up with the speed of play (the speed of play in U18 GDA games isn't even sufficient to keep up with the top 25 D1 teams).  This is either a hoax, some marketing scam or some serious overhyped fake news.  My reading of Anson's statement makes me think that he isn't sure if the money is sufficient.  The NY Times is clearly making an assumption about what the details of the contract are so I am curious as to what it truly entails.  I guess that we will see when a commercial comes out.
> 
> Please post it if you have seen a commercial specifically for her.  That little clip at the end of the Nike commercial is cute but amounts to nothing.


Far better soccer minds than ours (including Dorrance) have deemed her a phenom, so why not stipulate it is so, grant that she is uber-talented, a possible future GOAT.   Perhaps she can handle the pressure of those expectations, most cannot. That is my concern, not her level of talent.

Here is a Nike video


----------



## timbuck (Feb 26, 2019)

Anyone know what her parents story is?  Genetics can have a very big role in how a person changes from a kid to an adult.
If mom and dad were both high level athletes, she's got a better chance.
If mom and/or dad are 5'5", and weighs either 110 lbs or 300 lbs -  probably less of a chance.


----------



## texanincali (Feb 26, 2019)

I don't necessarily think it has to be one or the other.  

Here are the facts as I see them.  She has an insatiable work ethic that is unmatched by any kids this age.  Anything she gets at this point can be mostly attributed to that work ethic.  She is also very talented and sees the game well.  

That said, there is undoubtedly some PR smoke to all of this.  If she hadn't had a father that spent all his time for her on social media, she would probably be viewed as "a great player" like many others across the country.  It also helps that she has the financial means to have her own field, her own coach and parents able to homeschool her.  

Over the next few years, other girls will close that gap on her, but in the end she very well maybe still ahead.  

Personally, I wish her the best, mainly because I have fallen victim to her social media PR campaign and am very impressed at the work she puts into the game.  Do I think she will be a future Balon D'Or winner, probably not -  but let her and her parents enjoy this ride.   I admire what she has accomplished so far, but also realize there has been a lot of PR that contributes to her success.


----------



## jpeter (Feb 26, 2019)

Good for her:  living the dream, best of luck on her journey to be a professional.

She has insane footwork, works hard, has a good support system, trainer, and is humble so why not now? 

Maybe she got all she could out of da, beach fc, etc and it was time for some new challenges, adventures, might as well strike while the iron is hot. 

Don't have the link handy but she was featured in a Nike commercial and been in several so from a marketing standpoint seems like a good deal especially if she takes off.. signature.boots coming soon or something like that ?


----------



## MarkM (Feb 26, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> I'm a little confused.  She isn't a consistent starter on the U15 GNT.  How has it been determined that she is capable of being a pro?  I'm 100% certain that she wouldn't see minutes on my kid's college team and might not even be able to keep up in practice.  Am I missing something?  Now I admit that I haven't seen film of her but with the physicality of the women's D1 game (let alone the pro game) how do they expect a 13 year old to compete?  I doubt that she could keep up with the speed of play (the speed of play in U18 GDA games isn't even sufficient to keep up with the top 25 D1 teams).  This is either a hoax, some marketing scam or some serious overhyped fake news.  My reading of Anson's statement makes me think that he isn't sure if the money is sufficient.  The NY Times is clearly making an assumption about what the details of the contract are so I am curious as to what it truly entails.  I guess that we will see when a commercial comes out.
> 
> Please post it if you have seen a commercial specifically for her.  That little clip at the end of the Nike commercial is cute but amounts to nothing.


She isn't going to play on a professional team - at least not in the near term.  I believe they consider her professional simply because she took the marketing money from Nike.  I wish her and her family the best.


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Feb 26, 2019)

As Dorrance said, she’s growing the women’s game. We all want more and bigger options for our girls down the road. Good for her for helping blaze the trail and for having a trainer and parents that believe in her potential. She’s not the first 13 year old to sacrifice big for soccer - she’s just the first visible US female. I’ll be rooting for her all the way!


----------



## Chalklines (Feb 26, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Anyone know what her parents story is?  Genetics can have a very big role in how a person changes from a kid to an adult.
> If mom and dad were both high level athletes, she's got a better chance.
> If mom and/or dad are 5'5", and weighs either 110 lbs or 300 lbs -  probably less of a chance.


From one of her videos the mother looks like the gene pool winner and the dad looks like a bridge troll.


----------



## Dubs (Feb 26, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> I'm a little confused.  She isn't a consistent starter on the U15 GNT.  How has it been determined that she is capable of being a pro?  I'm 100% certain that she wouldn't see minutes on my kid's college team and might not even be able to keep up in practice.  Am I missing something?  Now I admit that I haven't seen film of her but with the physicality of the women's D1 game (let alone the pro game) how do they expect a 13 year old to compete?  I doubt that she could keep up with the speed of play (the speed of play in U18 GDA games isn't even sufficient to keep up with the top 25 D1 teams).  This is either a hoax, some marketing scam or some serious overhyped fake news.  My reading of Anson's statement makes me think that he isn't sure if the money is sufficient.  The NY Times is clearly making an assumption about what the details of the contract are so I am curious as to what it truly entails.  I guess that we will see when a commercial comes out.
> 
> Please post it if you have seen a commercial specifically for her.  That little clip at the end of the Nike commercial is cute but amounts to nothing.


MAP, agree with what you're saying.  I watched the CONCACAF games she played in some months back and wasn't really impressed.  She's obviously a creative player with great skills, but there are plenty with same or better ability and athleticism in the 03/04/05 age groups.  I'm not getting the hype honestly.  That said, all the best to her and hope she gets what she's trying to achieve.


----------



## oh canada (Feb 26, 2019)

Nike driving her "bus" now, not Dad and Mom.  That could be a good thing given Dad's over-eagerness since the age of 8yrs--"my daughter will be the best soccer player in the World."  Playing with the boys, much older girls, European clubs, etc. were all moves to make her "unique" from a marketing angle, not necessarily a better player.  That's clear.  It worked.  Move to Portland puts her in Nike backyard.  Guessing she will get top level soccer training and an internship at HQ in Beaverton.  Look for A LOT more social media content from her too--she will be this generation's social media girls soccer representative posting all sorts of soccer related content and make money from that too.   In that sense I don't see her as being any different than any of the young social media "stars" currently making good coin on Youtube, etc.  So, good for her.

As someone mentioned above, the sponsorship all but guarantees her a shot on the USWNT at some point.  Imo, some of the women on that team are only still there because of Nike sponsorship.  But they are probably the one's who are most miffed/mystified by this deal---can you imagine if an unproven 13yr old gets a deal worth similar $$ as xyz (insert your Nike sponsored USWNT player other than highly paid Alex Morgan here).  Not sure if she's still eligible as pro to play on the GNTs?  In all objectivity, I didn't think she stood out on the GNTu15 last Fall.  Good but similar to her teammates.  Not "phenom"-level.

All of that said, I think good move for her to take the Nike deal now.  The only new thing that she gives up is college sports eligibility -- and aren't the top college girls playing to hopefully make pro or USWNT anyway? -- she's already got that door open with this deal.    And can always go to UNC or another 4-year college for her education if that's what she wants to do.  But, since all of her eggs are in the soccer basket, if it doesn't work out, she will likely coach or do something in soccer anyway because her career path was already chosen/narrowed by her parents at 6yrs. 

If Pulisic can do it, why not her?  Granted, his Nike deal didn't come at 13.  Drop in the financial bucket for Nike.  No downside for them.

Maybe Nike will now start making some good quality soccer shoes for kids


----------



## vivamexico (Feb 26, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> even if she doesn't make it and flames out shes well ahead in life financially .
> 
> for shits and giggles lets say her deal is for $400k . She puts all of that in a pathetic savings account that yields 3% interest for 6 years until shes 18. Shes making $12k year on interest primarily focusing on soccer, while a normal kid would need to work 800 hrs at $15hr just to make $12k. The girls going to be just fine and have nice nest egg to start life after sports.


I agree with this and I think it's cool that the family gave it a shot. The changes any kid goes through between ages 13-16 are profound and makes any deal for a 13 year old a gamble. Every kid is a different person, and player, during that period of time.


----------



## Dos Equis (Feb 26, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Nike driving her "bus" now, not Dad and Mom.  That could be a good thing given Dad's over-eagerness since the age of 8yrs--"my daughter will be the best soccer player in the World."  Playing with the boys, much older girls, European clubs, etc. were all moves to make her "unique" from a marketing angle, not necessarily a better player.  That's clear.  It worked.  Move to Portland puts her in Nike backyard.  Guessing she will get top level soccer training and an internship at HQ in Beaverton.  Look for A LOT more social media content from her too--she will be this generation's social media girls soccer representative posting all sorts of soccer related content and make money from that too.   In that sense I don't see her as being any different than any of the young social media "stars" currently making good coin on Youtube, etc.  So, good for her.
> 
> As someone mentioned above, the sponsorship all but guarantees her a shot on the USWNT at some point.  Imo, some of the women on that team are only still there because of Nike sponsorship.  But they are probably the one's who are most miffed/mystified by this deal---can you imagine if an unproven 13yr old gets a deal worth similar $$ as xyz (insert your Nike sponsored USWNT player other than highly paid Alex Morgan here).  Not sure if she's still eligible as pro to play on the GNTs?  In all objectivity, I didn't think she stood out on the GNTu15 last Fall.  Good but similar to her teammates.  Not "phenom"-level.
> 
> ...


Lots of good points.  The level of possible resentment from girls/women on the WNT who did not get this deal is a concern.  Those feelings are pretty common in the short history of the USWNT. 

But I do disagree on one point.  Do not think a lot of women (even top players on most teams) playing in the NCAA are there for a shot at USWNT.  Nice perk if it comes, but not in the top 3 reasons for most players.  Most know the system does not work that way.


----------



## jose (Feb 26, 2019)

MarkM said:


> I'm sure she is spectacular for her age, but I've never seen her really stand out in DA games at u16/u17.  Maybe a half dozen players on her own team look as good or better.  The comparison is a little unfair because she is so young, but  I think that shows why this is so vastly premature.
> 
> I think these arrangements with Nike create a lot of conflicts of interest with US Soccer.  Nike dumps a lot of money into women's soccer, which is great.  But Nike's marketing team shouldn't dictate national team players, which this type of thing tacitly does.


This is like the shoe deals they do in youth basketball.  they just throw a bunch at the wall and iff one or two make it they are ahead.  I haven't seen her lately but when i have she's the real deal...at this age. I can only wish her well and hope this is what she wants and won't be sour later on for what she's missing out as a kid.  It is a different life now its not for fun its a business


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Feb 26, 2019)

electrichead72 said:


> Seems like a huge mistake to me. One bad injury and all that more than likely goes away. Even a small, nagging one can cause enough problems to lose that.
> 
> With FIFA rules she can't play in Europe anyway. Doesn't seem like a smart decision to me.


You don't think College Coaches take scholarship offers away for injuries?


----------



## OCsoccerdad7777 (Feb 26, 2019)

So many haters on here. She has a dream opportunity and took it. If she fails, then so be it. To never try it now when injuries, etc can always prevent the opportunity later on in life, good for her and will make some decent money. Can always go back and get a degree. She's earned the chance to do what every kid dreams for by putting in the work. Be happy for her.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Feb 26, 2019)

Not to mention she probably has an insurance policy now in place in the event she gets injured.


----------



## oh canada (Feb 26, 2019)

Dos Equis said:


> Lots of good points.  The level of possible resentment from girls/women on the WNT who did not get this deal is a concern.  Those feelings are pretty common in the short history of the USWNT.
> 
> But I do disagree on one point.  Do not think a lot of women (even top players on most teams) playing in the NCAA are there for a shot at USWNT.  Nice perk if it comes, but not in the top 3 reasons for most players.  Most know the system does not work that way.


agree D.E. - that's why I wrote "top".  If you ask the top 50 college girls if one of their goals is to play pro or make the uswnt, I bet you'd get a "yes" from 90% of them, certainly 60% of them.


----------



## forsomuch (Feb 26, 2019)

Good for her, take the money and run very little chance she would ever make that much money going the traditional women's soccer route. 

But remember she is getting paid to wear Nike shoes and make commercials not play soccer. Nike is betting on her being the next big thing nobody gave her a contract to play for their team yet.


----------



## 46n2 (Feb 26, 2019)

OCsoccerdad7777 said:


> So many haters on here. She has a dream opportunity and took it. If she fails, then so be it. To never try it now when injuries, etc can always prevent the opportunity later on in life, good for her and will make some decent money. Can always go back and get a degree. She's earned the chance to do what every kid dreams for by putting in the work. Be happy for her.


Exactly! You go girl, go kick some a$$!  If anyones kid on here got this deal they'd take it, period!


----------



## Soccer43 (Feb 26, 2019)

Most posters are making numerous assumptions:
1.  all are assuming the dollar amount of the contract is huge
2.  everyone has forgotten about the federal and state income taxes on this money.  She is not exempt from paying income taxes and if she does break six figures, the under 14 kiddie tax does not apply.
3.  since she has given up her NCAA eligibility, people are assuming that she will have the numbers (GPA, AP classes, SAT/ACT scores) to get admission to a top 50  university later on should she choose to get a degree,
4.  her desire to continue to play when she has to turn her fun sport into a workload job at the age of 13.
5.  what type of changes her body will go through during the next 5 years and how it will affect her abilities.


We also watched the GNT game, I believe it was against Mexico.  Was quite surprised as she didn't seem to know where to be on the field and kept losing the ball.  Just because you have amazing footwork doesn't mean you can perform in a game under pressure with players charging at you and tackling the ball.   Have also seen her play with her club team and because she was much smaller than other players on the team she kept getting knocked down.  I wish her well in pursuing her dreams but not sure we can say at this time that this is a smart move.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Feb 26, 2019)

Watch the Nike advert. She's a living embodiment of the message. "...a woman running a marathon was crazy. A woman boxing was crazy. A woman dunking, crazy. Coaching an NBA team, crazy. A woman competing in a hijab; changing her sport; landing a double-cork 1080; or winning 23 grand slams, having a baby, and then coming back for more, crazy, crazy, crazy, and crazy, Go get em OM. Be crazy and change the game for future generations.


----------



## Real Deal (Feb 26, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Watch the Nike advert. She's a living embodiment of the message. "...a woman running a marathon was crazy. A woman boxing was crazy. A woman dunking, crazy. Coaching an NBA team, crazy. A woman competing in a hijab; changing her sport; landing a double-cork 1080; or winning 23 grand slams, having a baby, and then coming back for more, crazy, crazy, crazy, and crazy, Go get em OM. Be crazy and change the game for future generations.


I have nothing but love for this kid with an amazing zinger shot. So for me, it is all love for a local girl with an amazing opportunity and the chance to pursue HER dream.


----------



## Soccer43 (Feb 26, 2019)

I thought it was about being the best at soccer, not acting??


----------



## Soccer43 (Feb 26, 2019)

I would be on board and giving her a pat on the back if the end goal was a multi million $ paycheck.  If you search for the highest paid female soccer player it comes up at $300,000-$400,000 salary with maybe a $1 mil endorsement deal - that is just not a huge amount of money


----------



## Real Deal (Feb 26, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> I thought it was about being the best at soccer, not acting??


Yes, you are right, but that would be a future plan that - it seems- would not require giving up NCAA eligibility to hire an agent and accept a Nike contract, right?  The article says she can't play pro or overseas until she is 18. So... am I missing something?


----------



## timbuck (Feb 26, 2019)

What’s her connection to Nike?  And Wasserman? Does she a a family connection in the sports agency business?


----------



## messy (Feb 26, 2019)

timbuck said:


> What’s her connection to Nike?  And Wasserman? Does she a a family connection in the sports agency business?


I think the family was dedicated to her career and had her play everywhere in So Cal. You knew when she was 8 that she would be a historic women’s US soccer player. Getting an agent was easy. The Nike move and the family getting to move to Portland seems good for all of them. She sacrifices playing in college...big deal. She can still go to college if she wants.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Feb 26, 2019)

messy said:


> You knew when she was 8 that she would be a historic women’s US soccer player.


A LOT of people think their kid will be a USWNT player when their kid is 8.


----------



## Soccer43 (Feb 26, 2019)

Real Deal said:


> Yes, you are right, but that would be a future plan that - it seems- would not require giving up NCAA eligibility to hire an agent and accept a Nike contract, right?  The article says she can't play pro or overseas until she is 18. So... am I missing something?


I was agreeing with you that her path now really doesn't have to do with soccer but is as a spokeswoman and how ridiculous this is because it doesn't have to do with her playing soccer.  She is a media personality at this point.  I have seen many a young player that was "amazing" at 9, 10, 11 years old to drop off or actually quit soccer, even girls that were called up to YNT have now quit soccer in high school.


----------



## messy (Feb 27, 2019)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> A LOT of people think their kid will be a USWNT player when their kid is 8.


I know. I see those deluded parents all the time. But as I said, with Olivia it's always been different. Go watch her play.


----------



## Soccer43 (Feb 27, 2019)

messy said:


> I know. I see those deluded parents all the time. But as I said, with Olivia it's always been different. Go watch her play.


Have watched her play - both with GNT and in person in league games and tournaments - nice footwork but not necessarily game time soccer IQ and decision making in pressure.  There are many girls that beat her on the field or tackle the ball away.  Don't fall prey to professionally edited clips that are posted on social media.  Like I said, wish her all the best in her dreams and she has certainly worked hard but she is not on the WNT yet - time will tell.


----------



## beachbum (Feb 27, 2019)

It's irresponsible for someone to give a pro contract to any female athlete that hasn't reached puberty.  Girls change into woman which can dramatically change their bodies not to mention new hormones and attitudes.  They can go from the fastest most athletic girl in the country to average or below average in a matter of 2 years, I and i'm sure many of you have seen this with many club girls.  But i guess it's not my money so spend away. And for the parents, are they capitalizing on their daughters current fame, if they are it's shameful.  I put her long term success at less than 10% to make the full national squad.  I really do wish her luck but she needs to be a kid and young adult and have some fun at her young age.


----------



## messy (Feb 27, 2019)

beachbum said:


> It's irresponsible for someone to give a pro contract to any female athlete that hasn't reached puberty.  Girls change into woman which can dramatically change their bodies not to mention new hormones and attitudes.  They can go from the fastest most athletic girl in the country to average or below average in a matter of 2 years, I and i'm sure many of you have seen this with many club girls.  But i guess it's not my money so spend away. And for the parents, are they capitalizing on their daughters current fame, if they are it's shameful.  I put her long term success at less than 10% to make the full national squad.  I really do wish her luck but she needs to be a kid and young adult and have some fun at her young age.


Nike generally makes good decisions, if I'm not mistaken. The already grown 14-yr-old Freddie Adu being an exception that proves the rule.


----------



## Dos Equis (Feb 27, 2019)

messy said:


> Nike generally makes good decisions, if I'm not mistaken. The already grown 14-yr-old Freddie Adu being an exception that proves the rule.


Nike's decisions are about sales and marketing, and sometimes about social messaging/virtue signaling -- which may be their current focus  in this sponsorship, given the campaign this young lady has already been part of.  I respect Nike's judgment when it comes to athletic potential . . . but that is not always the basis for their sponsorships. 

My daughter has played on the same pitch as this very talented young lady. Her potential is undeniable. Her level of skill is rare, not singular.  Her path in youth soccer has been very unique.  It is not a path I would support for most players, as I expect they would not be able to endure it, but I do hope it continues to works out for her.


----------



## timbuck (Feb 27, 2019)

I guess it's no different than a kid who wants to be on Nickelodeon or other child singers/actors.  Being in So Cal, I'm sure we all know at least one family that has a dream to be in commercials, TV shows, movies, have a hit record.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Feb 27, 2019)

Dos Equis said:


> Far better soccer minds than ours (including Dorrance) have deemed her a phenom, so why not stipulate it is so, grant that she is uber-talented, a possible future GOAT.   Perhaps she can handle the pressure of those expectations, most cannot. That is my concern, not her level of talent.
> 
> Here is a Nike video


Nice video.  Seen cone drills plenty of times.  I've seen the fanciest of footwork actually executed in games against full national team competition.  Any game film?  I can't stipulate to anything that I haven't seen.  I am just a little confused.  I guess that we will see what happens.  And I thought that the world wasn't crazy enough.  Now we have a 13 year old "pro" female soccer player with no league to compete in.  Next up is the first 13 year old to skip high school to be a pro video gamer.

I'm glad I only have one more year of this madness.  I never thought it could get much crazier then when the ECNL clubs pulling out of CSL and completely fragmenting high level club soccer in SoCal.  I don't even no what to call this next phase other than peculiar.


----------



## socalkdg (Feb 27, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Have watched her play - both with GNT and in person in league games and tournaments - nice footwork but not necessarily game time soccer IQ and decision making in pressure.  There are many girls that beat her on the field or tackle the ball away.  Don't fall prey to professionally edited clips that are posted on social media.  Like I said, wish her all the best in her dreams and she has certainly worked hard but she is not on the WNT yet - time will tell.


She plays Beach FC DA 16/17 age group as a 13 year old, team is 2nd in their division,  she leads the team in scoring while playing the least amount of games as a midfielder.  Good luck finding a 13 or 14 year old playing better than she is.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Feb 27, 2019)

Dos Equis said:


> Lots of good points.  The level of possible resentment from girls/women on the WNT who did not get this deal is a concern.  Those feelings are pretty common in the short history of the USWNT.
> 
> But I do disagree on one point.  Do not think a lot of women (even top players on most teams) playing in the NCAA are there for a shot at USWNT.  Nice perk if it comes, but not in the top 3 reasons for most players.  Most know the system does not work that way.


I agree as I know of players that can play pro that choose not to due to better opportunities outside of soccer.  I wish her well.  I just think that it is odd.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Feb 27, 2019)

oh canada said:


> agree D.E. - that's why I wrote "top".  If you ask the top 50 college girls if one of their goals is to play pro or make the uswnt, I bet you'd get a "yes" from 90% of them, certainly 60% of them.


The smart ones no that there is very little money in pro soccer.  Heck my daughter's old roommate is on the full Canadian National team and could have gone pro last year but is still working hard on her engineering degree.  Most of these kids come from upper middle class or better families and know the value of an education.  Some absolutely do not care about pro soccer.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Feb 27, 2019)

socalkdg said:


> She plays Beach FC DA 16/17 age group as a 13 year old, team is 2nd in their division,  she leads the team in scoring while playing the least amount of games as a midfielder.  Good luck finding a 13 or 14 year old playing better than she is.


Most club soccer games are a pretty bad level of play.  She may well be the best 13 year old in SoCal.  The U15 GNT had several players of the same age and based upon the boxscores from the CONCACAAF U15 championships I don't see the impact that you speak of.  I would expect a pro caliber player to stand out even in a YNT setting.  Jessie Fleming stood out at 16 playing with pro players.  That is my bar for a phenom.  I wish her well and Anson usually has a good eye for talent.


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Most club soccer games are a pretty bad level of play.  She may well be the best 13 year old in SoCal.  The U15 GNT had several players of the same age and based upon the boxscores from the CONCACAAF U15 championships I don't see the impact that you speak of.  I would expect a pro caliber player to stand out even in a YNT setting.  Jessie Fleming stood out at 16 playing with pro players.  That is my bar for a phenom.  I wish her well and Anson usually has a good eye for talent.


----------



## socalkdg (Feb 27, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Most club soccer games are a pretty bad level of play.  She may well be the best 13 year old in SoCal.  The U15 GNT had several players of the same age and based upon the boxscores from the CONCACAAF U15 championships I don't see the impact that you speak of.  I would expect a pro caliber player to stand out even in a YNT setting.  Jessie Fleming stood out at 16 playing with pro players.  That is my bar for a phenom.  I wish her well and Anson usually has a good eye for talent.


Only age 12 for that game.   By the time she hits 16 we should know if she is Fleming or if she should go get her degree.   Can she still play CONCACAAF if she accepts money?


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Most club soccer games are a pretty bad level of play.  She may well be the best 13 year old in SoCal.  The U15 GNT had several players of the same age and based upon the boxscores from the CONCACAAF U15 championships I don't see the impact that you speak of.  I would expect a pro caliber player to stand out even in a YNT setting.  Jessie Fleming stood out at 16 playing with pro players.  That is my bar for a phenom.  I wish her well and Anson usually has a good eye for talent.


Thanks for your insight.  I have a daughter that is approximately 2.5 years younger and is the same boat as Olivia in terms of attention from professional clubs and universities.  My goal is to keep her in a kid friendly environment as long as possible.  However, I am somewhat sympathetic to their position because I do not think it is about the money.  Currently, my problem is finding a training environment where my daughter can continue to develop and I suspect that Olivia and her parents are having the same problem.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Feb 27, 2019)

socalkdg said:


> Good luck finding a 13 or 14 year old playing better than she is.


That #2 girl is a pretty darn good little 2005 player...not sure if you can say who is better but she looks to be on same level.


----------



## socalkdg (Feb 27, 2019)

For Mexico, right?  She is.  I wasn't impressed with any of the US girls in general from this team.  How much time do the girls practice together compared to how much time the Mexico team practices together?


----------



## cheaper2keeper (Feb 27, 2019)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> That #2 girl is a pretty darn good little 2005 player...not sure if you can say who is better but she looks to be on same level.


Agree. She is also playing DA @ u16/17 age group and is tied for second most goals scored in half the games as a defender. Her sister is amazing as well. (#9 in that same Mexico game, a 2004)


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

socalkdg said:


> For Mexico, right?  She is.  I wasn't impressed with any of the US girls in general from this team.  How much time do the girls practice together compared to how much time the Mexico team practices together?


My daughter plays in Mexico and it is less organized with less funding.  The advantage to playing in Mexico, is the soccer culture where kids get treated like "rock stars" and are having fun.


----------



## socalkdg (Feb 27, 2019)

socalkdg said:


> For Mexico, right?  She is.  I wasn't impressed with any of the US girls in general from this team.  How much time do the girls practice together compared to how much time the Mexico team practices together?


I sounded a bit harsh on the US girls and I shouldn't.   They have skills, but looked like they need to play together more.


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

socalkdg said:


> I sounded a bit harsh on the US girls and I shouldn't.   They have skills, but looked like they need to play together more.


I thought your statement was accurate.  We can't fix a problem that we do not acknowledge.  US Soccer is in serious trouble if we can't start talking openly and honestly about our deficits.


----------



## espola (Feb 27, 2019)

socalkdg said:


> Only age 12 for that game.   By the time she hits 16 we should know if she is Fleming or if she should go get her degree.   Can she still play CONCACAAF if she accepts money?


From what I have seen, she has not accepted any money for actually playing soccer, only for modeling and/or endorsing soccer gear.  That used to be a violation of amateur status in the Avery Brundage days, but I don't think it is anymore.


----------



## jose (Feb 27, 2019)

As someone mentioned above, the sponsorship all but guarantees her a shot on the USWNT at some point.  Imo, some of the women on that team are only still there because of Nike sponsorship.  But they are probably the one's who are most miffed/mystified by this deal---can you imagine if an unproven 13yr old gets a deal worth similar $$ as xyz (insert your Nike sponsored USWNT player other than highly paid Alex Morgan here).  Not sure if she's still eligible as pro to play on the GNTs?  In all objectivity, I didn't think she stood out on the GNTu15 last Fall.  Good but similar to her teammates.  Not "phenom"-level.

Greg norman was asked about Tiger Woods getting the big money when he was just starting.  Some guys were jealous but he took it as if he gets X amount then i should get a little more too.  IDK but a rising tide lifts all boats.  


Maybe Nike will now start making some good quality soccer shoes for kids [/QUOTE]


----------



## espola (Feb 27, 2019)

socalkdg said:


> I sounded a bit harsh on the US girls and I shouldn't.   They have skills, but looked like they need to play together more.


When Womens World Cup play started up, American women had about a 20-year head start on the rest of the world, founded on Title IX and other cultural differences.  Do you know how long it takes to make up a 20-year head start?  Apparently about 20 years.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Feb 27, 2019)

jose said:


> As someone mentioned above, the sponsorship all but guarantees her a shot on the USWNT at some point.  Imo, some of the women on that team are only still there because of Nike sponsorship.  But they are probably the one's who are most miffed/mystified by this deal---can you imagine if an unproven 13yr old gets a deal worth similar $$ as xyz (insert your Nike sponsored USWNT player other than highly paid Alex Morgan here).  Not sure if she's still eligible as pro to play on the GNTs?  In all objectivity, I didn't think she stood out on the GNTu15 last Fall.  Good but similar to her teammates.  Not "phenom"-level.
> 
> Greg norman was asked about Tiger Woods getting the big money when he was just starting.  Some guys were jealous but he took it as if he gets X amount then i should get a little more too.  IDK but a rising tide lifts all boats.
> 
> ...


They do. Maybe kids just don’t like the good ones. Often they are very simple and lack the aesthetics.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Feb 27, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Have watched her play - both with GNT and in person in league games and tournaments - nice footwork but not necessarily game time soccer IQ and decision making in pressure.  There are many girls that beat her on the field or tackle the ball away.  Don't fall prey to professionally edited clips that are posted on social media.  Like I said, wish her all the best in her dreams and she has certainly worked hard but she is not on the WNT yet - time will tell.


This is where people miss the point. She doesn’t dominate games. Sometimes she touches the ball very few times. The difference is, in those few times she has the ball, she scores, gets a penalty kick or makes an assist and that’s what the masses of spectators don’t see or understand. She changes games. There’s thousands of kids who touch the ball plenty and get to the ball first across the country. Doesn’t matter if she touches the ball 1,000 times or 10. She’s got the ability to change a game. Not many of those players in men’s or women’s soccer.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Feb 27, 2019)

jose said:


> As someone mentioned above, the sponsorship all but guarantees her a shot on the USWNT at some point.  Imo, some of the women on that team are only still there because of Nike sponsorship.  But they are probably the one's who are most miffed/mystified by this deal---can you imagine if an unproven 13yr old gets a deal worth similar $$ as xyz (insert your Nike sponsored USWNT player other than highly paid Alex Morgan here).  Not sure if she's still eligible as pro to play on the GNTs?  In all objectivity, I didn't think she stood out on the GNTu15 last Fall.  Good but similar to her teammates.  Not "phenom"-level.
> 
> Greg norman was asked about Tiger Woods getting the big money when he was just starting.  Some guys were jealous but he took it as if he gets X amount then i should get a little more too.  IDK but a rising tide lifts all boats.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]
Now that they have their basketball shoes perfected maybe they can make soccer shoes worth 250.00.


----------



## Sons of Pitches (Feb 27, 2019)

Now that they have their basketball shoes perfected maybe they can make soccer shoes worth 250.00.[/QUOTE]
Don't worry Nike fired the 8 year kid in vietnam who made Zion Williamson's shoe!


----------



## Kicker4Life (Feb 27, 2019)

Now that they have their basketball shoes perfected maybe they can make soccer shoes worth 250.00.[/QUOTE]
They already do!


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Feb 27, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> Now that they have their basketball shoes perfected maybe they can make soccer shoes worth 250.00.


They already do![/QUOTE]
My daughter will only wear Nike, they have always been top notch and their customer service is terrific, just wish they would stick to selling shoes.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Feb 27, 2019)

Sons of Pitches said:


> Now that they have their basketball shoes perfected maybe they can make soccer shoes worth 250.00.


Don't worry Nike fired the 8 year kid in vietnam who made Zion Williamson's shoe![/QUOTE]
Trump is going to fix that too while he is there.


----------



## futboldad1 (Feb 27, 2019)

[/QUOTE="Kicker4Life"]
They already do![/QUOTE]

He said "worth", not "priced"


----------



## SoccerGeek (Feb 27, 2019)

Stop hating on her! Your kid is not going pro so dont hate on other kids! I have seen her play and she is special. I wish alex morgan had her touch.


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

SoccerGeek said:


> Stop hating on her! Your kid is not going pro so dont hate on other kids! I have seen her play and she is special. I wish alex morgan had her touch.


I am not hating.  my daughter is similarly situated with Olivia.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Feb 27, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I am not hating.  my daughter is similarly situated with Olivia.


You live in Portland too?


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> You live in Portland too?


No, I live in Tijuana and the SF Bay Area.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Feb 27, 2019)

MacDre said:


> No, I live in Tijuana and the SF Bay Area.


Same Same


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Same Same


We represent the struggle.  learn about it hater!


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

MacDre said:


> We represent the struggle.  learn about it hater!


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=e40+wake+shit+up&view=detail&mid=B7A0DCAD653B82C23AE9B7A0DCAD653B82C23AE9&FORM=VIRE

Vallejo patna!


----------



## boomer (Feb 27, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I am not hating.  my daughter is similarly situated with Olivia.


Gee, tell us more about your 10yr old phenom. You know you want to. All ears. SMH


----------



## Soccer43 (Feb 27, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> This is where people miss the point. She doesn’t dominate games. Sometimes she touches the ball very few times. The difference is, in those few times she has the ball, she scores, gets a penalty kick or makes an assist and that’s what the masses of spectators don’t see or understand. She changes games. There’s thousands of kids who touch the ball plenty and get to the ball first across the country. Doesn’t matter if she touches the ball 1,000 times or 10. She’s got the ability to change a game. Not many of those players in men’s or women’s soccer.


Where in the GNT game against Mexico did she do any of that and change the game??  And that was against players about her age - not playing up.


----------



## Soccer43 (Feb 27, 2019)

SoccerGeek said:


> Stop hating on her! Your kid is not going pro so dont hate on other kids! I have seen her play and she is special. I wish alex morgan had her touch.


Not hating on her, have no ill will against her.  She's a kid and that's the point.  Most are commenting on if this is a wise decision and if she is going to continue on an uphill trajectory or take a different direction as she ages.   If she was that special and incredible she should have been able to change the outcome of the GNT Mexico game.


----------



## Zen (Feb 27, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Have watched her play - both with GNT and in person in league games and tournaments - nice footwork but not necessarily game time soccer IQ and decision making in pressure.  There are many girls that beat her on the field or tackle the ball away.  Don't fall prey to professionally edited clips that are posted on social media.  Like I said, wish her all the best in her dreams and she has certainly worked hard but she is not on the WNT yet - time will tell.


She didn't catch my eye in the U15 Concacaf game.  Others did - I think the Thompson sisters, Shaw, are legit (and others on that team), and are way closer to 'phenom' status at her age.   I looked up 2 games from last June's DA playoffs (they are all on youtube) since she may showcase better with her own team.  It looked like her team passed around her at times. Dominant mids win, receive, distribute, and keep the ball...didn't see that.  If it's quality vs quantity of touch (very strange for a midfielder), I didn't see her do much with the ball when she had it, often losing it.  She may better than most 05's, but by far not the best on the field or even her team...granted Beach is a very talented team.  It's clear how she scores a lot - she takes every corner, free kick, and penalty for her team (even if she didn't earn it), and she does have nice technical shooting capability.  I don't see pro-ready now...not that she won't be later.  I wish her the best.

For those that prefer entire game footage - link to DA qtr-final game vs. Dallas:


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Feb 27, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Not hating on her, have no ill will against her.  She's a kid and that's the point.  Most are commenting on if this is a wise decision and if she is going to continue on an uphill trajectory or take a different direction as she ages.   If she was that special and incredible she should have been able to change the outcome of the GNT Mexico game.


Overall  in that game GT from Real and the left winger/forward from FC Dallas were the most impressive players.


----------



## messy (Feb 27, 2019)

MacDre said:


> https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=e40+wake+shit+up&view=detail&mid=B7A0DCAD653B82C23AE9B7A0DCAD653B82C23AE9&FORM=VIRE
> 
> Vallejo patna!


Check out mr multi culti Oaktown Mexi with the daughter who’s kicking ass on the pitch!


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Feb 27, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Where in the GNT game against Mexico did she do any of that and change the game??  And that was against players about her age - not playing up.


Why? Who are you? You don’t have to like her but you’d be a fool to sleep on the kids ability


----------



## Soccer43 (Feb 27, 2019)

don't hate on me, watch the game yourself.  This isn't about me.  I am no one but a parent of a DD that loves the game and have watched thousands of games as a result (and I get to have my own opinions like you).  I agree with Zen above ..... "Dominant mids win, receive, distribute, and keep the ball.."  In 35 min she only touched the ball abut 10 times and was not an impact player.  I have no doubt she is talented and that she works hard.  I have seen the slick edited videos of her doing fancy drills and footwork.  It is impressive that since a young age she has dedicate so much of her time and effort to training.  I am only commenting on the GNT game because many posters have made comments about what a phenom she is and how incredible she is.  I was surprised when I first watched that game to see how much of the game she stood or slowly jogged in the middle of the field not near any other players and not making a play on the ball.  It seemed like she didn't know where to be in the game.  Watch for yourself - maybe you see it differently


----------



## Chalklines (Feb 27, 2019)

boomer said:


> Gee, tell us more about your 10yr old phenom. You know you want to. All ears. SMH


his kid play AYSO in TJ.......just let him live the dream


----------



## cheaper2keeper (Feb 27, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> his kid play AYSO in TJ.......just let him live the dream


That’s MYSO ... MYSO all-stars....


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

boomer said:


> Gee, tell us more about your 10yr old phenom. You know you want to. All ears. SMH


I’m uncomfortable calling her a phenom.  She’s just my baby girl and she just happens to love soccer.  However, she’s not a 1 trick pony and is likes dancing and swimming too.  I don’t want to be a LaVar Ball but I’ll give ya lil’ bit:

1.  
https://www.instagram.com/p/BlOvyKMlD12/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1fslx9rttnvrh


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I’m uncomfortable calling her a phenom.  She’s just my baby girl and she just happens to love soccer.  However, she’s not a 1 trick pony and is likes dancing and swimming too.  I don’t want to be a LaVar Ball but I’ll give ya lil’ bit:
> 
> 1.
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BlOvyKMlD12/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1fslx9rttnvrh


Oh yeah in regards to the issue of genetics:


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Oh yeah in regards to the issue of genetics:





MacDre said:


> Oh yeah in regards to the issue of genetics:


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

cheaper2keeper said:


> That’s MYSO ... MYSO all-stars....


Where does your kid play?


----------



## cheaper2keeper (Feb 27, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Where does your kid play?


At her middle school....she starts though.


----------



## messy (Feb 27, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Oh yeah in regards to the issue of genetics:


Can’t tell if she’s any good at soccer but she’s definitely got a certain je ne sais quos! Star quality.


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

messy said:


> Can’t tell if she’s any good at soccer but she’s definitely got a certain je ne sais quos! Star quality.


I just included a picture with Marshawn Lynch for those that want to question her genetics.  She’ll show you better than I can tell you.


----------



## messy (Feb 27, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I just included a picture with Marshawn Lynch for those that want to question her genetics.  She’ll show you better than I can tell you.


Speaking of Beast Mode...Soccer Beast Mode is in Manhattan Beach. His name is David Copeland-Smith. He develops skills for some of the best women soccer players in the world. Look him up! 

https://beastmodesoccer.com/


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

messy said:


> Speaking of Beast Mode...Soccer Beast Mode is in Manhattan Beach. His name is David Copeland-Smith. He develops skills for some of the best women soccer players in the world. Look him up!
> 
> https://beastmodesoccer.com/


Thanks.  I will.


----------



## OCsoccerdad7777 (Feb 27, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Most posters are making numerous assumptions:
> 1.  all are assuming the dollar amount of the contract is huge
> 2.  everyone has forgotten about the federal and state income taxes on this money.  She is not exempt from paying income taxes and if she does break six figures, the under 14 kiddie tax does not apply.
> 3.  since she has given up her NCAA eligibility, people are assuming that she will have the numbers (GPA, AP classes, SAT/ACT scores) to get admission to a top 50  university later on should she choose to get a degree,
> ...





Soccer43 said:


> don't hate on me, watch the game yourself.  This isn't about me.  I am no one but a parent of a DD that loves the game and have watched thousands of games as a result (and I get to have my own opinions like you).  I agree with Zen above ..... "Dominant mids win, receive, distribute, and keep the ball.."  In 35 min she only touched the ball abut 10 times and was not an impact player.  I have no doubt she is talented and that she works hard.  I have seen the slick edited videos of her doing fancy drills and footwork.  It is impressive that since a young age she has dedicate so much of her time and effort to training.  I am only commenting on the GNT game because many posters have made comments about what a phenom she is and how incredible she is.  I was surprised when I first watched that game to see how much of the game she stood or slowly jogged in the middle of the field not near any other players and not making a play on the ball.  It seemed like she didn't know where to be in the game.  Watch for yourself - maybe you see it differently


I watched it. Remember she's 13 and still has a lot to learn mentally in the game. 
But yes she lost the ball (btw I've seen Messi lose the ball too lol).
But other times she played solid I thought. Had some plays, one should have been a goal had her teammate not shot right at the goalie in the box.  Also had a great shot to the right corner that goalie made a great diving save. I didn't see the team playing her much in the middle either. 
Overall I saw the talent and liked her skill and vision.


----------



## MacDre (Feb 27, 2019)

OCsoccerdad7777 said:


> I watched it. Remember she's 13 and still has a lot to learn mentally in the game.
> But yes she lost the ball (btw I've seen Messi lose the ball too lol).
> But other times she played solid I thought. Had some plays, one should have been a goal had her teammate not shot right at the goalie in the box.  Also had a great shot to the right corner that goalie made a great diving save. I didn't see the team playing her much in the middle either.
> Overall I saw the talent and liked her skill and vision.


I really like her too and thinks she is very talented.  I think most of the deficits that she has come from playing “club” in the US.  I predict that she will grow exponentially when she gets to Portland.
My concern for her is burnout and social isolation.


----------



## espola (Feb 28, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I really like her too and thinks she is very talented.  I think most of the deficits that she has come from playing “club” in the US.  I predict that she will grow exponentially when she gets to Portland.
> My concern for her is burnout and social isolation.


What is special about Portland?


----------



## MacDre (Feb 28, 2019)

espola said:


> What is special about Portland?


It’s a soccer town and she will get treated like a rock star.  I also think her exposure to professionals like Tobin Heath will have great influence on her.
I am basing this on my daughters exposure to professionals and soccer culture in Mexico and Spain.
Here’s the point that I think most are missing:  My kid, Olivia, & Pulisic are able to distinguish themselves because of “connected” parents that were able to put their kids in ideal training environments that most don’t have access to (emphasis added).


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Feb 28, 2019)

Of course this is not a sure thing, and that's what makes this a great story.  A 13-year-old trying to do something that hasn't been done before by a female soccer player.

If this works out soccer wise, awesome.  If it doesn't work out and she made some money as a media sensation, great.  It's about time someone makes some money from girls' club soccer other than the club DOC's 

My preschooler watches a silly 7-year-old review toys on a youtube channel called Ryan's Toys Review, and I just found out that kid makes $22M a year!  I only wish I was smart enough to have come up with that first.

Lastly, which one of you clowns is posing as MacDre just to annoy us?


----------



## Dos Equis (Feb 28, 2019)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Lastly, which one of you clowns is posing as MacDre just to annoy us?


Not me -- I could not have achieved that level of subtlety portraying the self-important soccer parent.


----------



## socalkdg (Feb 28, 2019)

Zen said:


> I looked up 2 games from last June's DA playoffs (they are all on youtube) since she may showcase better with her own team.  It looked like her team passed around her at times. Dominant mids win, receive, distribute, and keep the ball...didn't see that.  If it's quality vs quantity of touch (very strange for a midfielder), I didn't see her do much with the ball when she had it, often losing it.  She may better than most 05's, but by far not the best on the field or even her team...granted Beach is a very talented team.


She would have been 12 last June playing with 14 year olds.  I did notice one thing in Concacaaf.  She got the ball at the 18 and looked like she could have taken a shot with her left.  Instead she tried to make a couple moves to get open with the right and lost the ball.   Surprised me.  I also think we are over thinking the word "turning pro".   She won't be playing with NWSL players like Pugh did.   It really means no college ball,  but money in her pocket and training with a different set of girls.   Everyone is correct on watching highlite reels.   I can make my 05 keeper look better than some of the NWSL keepers.   Watch a complete game and weaknesses start to show.


----------



## Chalklines (Feb 28, 2019)

MacDre said:


> It’s a soccer town and she will get treated like a rock star.  I also think her exposure to professionals like Tobin Heath will have great influence on her.
> I am basing this on my daughters exposure to professionals and soccer culture in Mexico and Spain.
> Here’s the point that I think most are missing:  My kid, Olivia, & Pulisic are able to distinguish themselves because of “connected” parents that were able to put their kids in ideal training environments that most don’t have access to (emphasis added).


I'm so confused but let me play connect the dots. 

Your daughters one of Marshawns fabled Bay Babies (one of 2 to 3 dozen running around Oakland) and his "connections" aka child support puts her in the ideal training environments?


----------



## MacDre (Feb 28, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> I'm so confused but let me play connect the dots.
> 
> Your daughters one of Marshawns fabled Bay Babies (one of 2 to 3 dozen running around Oakland) and his "connections" aka child support puts her in the ideal training environments?


I love haters!


----------



## MacDre (Feb 28, 2019)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Of course this is not a sure thing, and that's what makes this a great story.  A 13-year-old trying to do something that hasn't been done before by a female soccer player.
> 
> If this works out soccer wise, awesome.  If it doesn't work out and she made some money as a media sensation, great.  It's about time someone makes some money from girls' club soccer other than the club DOC's
> 
> ...


I love haters.  Players do what they want and haters do what they can.  I understand.  RIP to the homie MacDre!


----------



## broshark (Feb 28, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Not hating on her, have no ill will against her.  She's a kid and that's the point.  Most are commenting on if this is a wise decision and if she is going to continue on an uphill trajectory or take a different direction as she ages.   If she was that special and incredible she should have been able to change the outcome of the GNT Mexico game.


If she gets hurt or stops improving, would she have played in college still?  

Alternatively, is there any reason she can't be a pro and still go to college?  Lots of kids in other sports do it.  Swimmers do it.  Golfers do it.  Even a random surfer here and there manages a college degree while making money surfing.

I'm all for this girl taking the money.  That's the end goal for all of us, isn't it?  It's why we go to college, work shit jobs etc.  Someone wants to pay my kid $300k to play soccer at age 13, she's all in.


----------



## MacDre (Feb 28, 2019)

broshark said:


> If she gets hurt or stops improving, would she have played in college still?
> 
> Alternatively, is there any reason she can't be a pro and still go to college?  Lots of kids in other sports do it.  Swimmers do it.  Golfers do it.  Even a random surfer here and there manages a college degree while making money surfing.
> 
> I'm all for this girl taking the money.  That's the end goal for all of us, isn't it?  It's why we go to college, work shit jobs etc.  Someone wants to pay my kid $300k to play soccer at age 13, she's all in.


Again, I think it’s the training environment they are after.  After taxes and moving expenses she’s getting paid peanuts.  If she stays in her current environment she will not maximize her potential. 
Sure, this is risky but I think it is a may be a necessary risk if she wants to play at the highest level.


----------



## MarkM (Feb 28, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Again, I think it’s the training environment they are after.  After taxes and moving expenses she’s getting paid peanuts.  If she stays in her current environment she will not maximize her potential.
> Sure, this is risky but I think it is a may be a necessary risk if she wants to play at the highest level.


What training environment are you talking about?  With all the Nike money in the world, Oregon soccer remains the worst on the West Coast.  SoCal, NoCal, and Washington is better - it's not close.


----------



## OCsoccerdad7777 (Feb 28, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I really like her too and thinks she is very talented.  I think most of the deficits that she has come from playing “club” in the US.  I predict that she will grow exponentially when she gets to Portland.
> My concern for her is burnout and social isolation.


I would worry too much on burnout more than I would a rec player kid. Yes she's putting in way more time than the rec kid, but I'm guessing she loves it way more as well. That can happen to anyone. 

Social that will be up to her parents to make sure she gets enough interaction  to make her feel happy outside of soccer. 

Bottom line when she becomes a woman her body will change and maybe she won't be phenom material anymore or maybe she'll be better. We don't know.  She could also get injured and be done for.  But what she has right now is an amazing opportunity that may come only once in a lifetime and she's trying it. 
If I could have my kid to be phenom at a younger age and get all the things shes had so far, sign me up!


----------



## MacDre (Feb 28, 2019)

MarkM said:


> What training environment are you talking about?  With all the Nike money in the world, Oregon soccer remains the worst on the West Coast.  SoCal, NoCal, and Washington is better - it's not close.


I agree.  However, at Portland she has access to train with professionals.  Any professional team even a second division team provides a great training environment for an aspiring professional.
I invision Olivia doing a lot on one on one training with Tobin Heath and similar professionals.


----------



## MacDre (Feb 28, 2019)

OCsoccerdad7777 said:


> I would worry too much on burnout more than I would a rec player kid. Yes she's putting in way more time than the rec kid, but I'm guessing she loves it way more as well. That can happen to anyone.
> 
> Social that will be up to her parents to make sure she gets enough interaction  to make her feel happy outside of soccer.
> 
> ...


Lot of merit to what you are saying.  This is why I’m taking a different approach. 
My daughter will start college this fall.  She will graduate from Cal (Math & Spanish major) around 17 and then we are  off to Spain.
There’s definitely more than one way to skin a cat.
Please do not under estimate the social aspect.  She’s not going to have an opportunity to enjoy here teens years and when your famous with money it’s harder to find genuine friends.
I’m so glad I grew up dirt poor in area where all we had was each other.
I kinda feel sorry for her!


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Feb 28, 2019)

Zen said:


> She didn't catch my eye in the U15 Concacaf game.  Others did - I think the Thompson sisters, Shaw, are legit (and others on that team), and are way closer to 'phenom' status at her age.   I looked up 2 games from last June's DA playoffs (they are all on youtube) since she may showcase better with her own team.  It looked like her team passed around her at times. Dominant mids win, receive, distribute, and keep the ball...didn't see that.  If it's quality vs quantity of touch (very strange for a midfielder), I didn't see her do much with the ball when she had it, often losing it.  She may better than most 05's, but by far not the best on the field or even her team...granted Beach is a very talented team.  It's clear how she scores a lot - she takes every corner, free kick, and penalty for her team (even if she didn't earn it), and she does have nice technical shooting capability.  I don't see pro-ready now...not that she won't be later.  I wish her the best.
> 
> For those that prefer entire game footage - link to DA qtr-final game vs. Dallas:


As I could not remember I had to ask a friend about the FC Dallas player. JS is an 04 and plays up on 00/01 on her club team. That's impressive.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Feb 28, 2019)

Here is an article that I believe has not been posted anywhere on the forum. It gives a different perspective on this situation. Non-the-less it appears there is much about this situation that has not been revealed. 

https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/olivia-moultrie-is-a-sign-of-the-times_aid45892


----------



## broshark (Feb 28, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Lot of merit to what you are saying.  This is why I’m taking a different approach.
> My daughter will start college this fall.  She will graduate from Cal (Math & Spanish major) around 17 and then we are  off to Spain.
> There’s definitely more than one way to skin a cat.
> Please do not under estimate the social aspect.  She’s not going to have an opportunity to enjoy here teens years and when your famous with money it’s harder to find genuine friends.
> ...


Am I reading this right?  Your daughter will graduate from Cal at 17?  What sort of social aspect of college do you expect she'll enjoy at 13?


----------



## End of the Line (Feb 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Here is an article that I believe has not been posted anywhere on the forum. It gives a different perspective on this situation. Non-the-less it appears there is much about this situation that has not been revealed.
> 
> https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/olivia-moultrie-is-a-sign-of-the-times_aid45892


Now that they've monetized their daughter, I wonder if the family business will include above the line deductions for the residential property and soccer field they put into the backyard?  The substantial GDA fees and travel costs?  A European vacation, er, soccer trip?  The daughter's cell phone that she uses to "market" herself via social media?  Health insurance premiums?  Mileage to soccer practice and back?  Shoot, giving up a free ride to UNC might make financial sense even if Nike only gave her a pair of cleats.

On average, there are maybe two girls every birth year in the U.S. for whom "professional soccer player" ends up being a better financial decision than, well, just about any other job.  Miss Moultrie is obviously a very talented 13 year old soccer player but reasonable minds will differ whether she is tracking even now to be one of the two once you get past the Nike and NYT hype.  If giving up a free ride makes sense financially for her and her family, great.  But it does not bode well for the future of girls youth soccer now that sports agents and shoe reps are trolling the U14 sidelines instead of sticking to the AAU basketball games where they belong.


----------



## MacDre (Feb 28, 2019)

broshark said:


> Am I reading this right?  Your daughter will graduate from Cal at 17?  What sort of social aspect of college do you expect she'll enjoy at 13?


Not much.  She’s going to Cal for an academic education not socialization.  Also she’s starting early enough so she can attend college part time and still have enough free time to be a normal teen and do normal teen things.
In terms of socialization my daughters trajectory has been very different from Olivia’s.
First, my kid has not been homeschooled and attended a regular school.  Second she’s also a swimmer and a dancer.  Third, she also has lots of friends from ATDP at Cal.  So, I think we have a much better social foundation.
My daughter has many talents and I do not want her to put all her eggs in one basket.
Marshawn is encouraging her to quit soccer and focus on running his Family’s Fist organization.
I agree with Marshawn but soccer is her dream so, I am reluctantly supporting her in her endeavors.


----------



## Zen (Feb 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> As I could not remember I had to ask a friend about the FC Dallas player. JS is an 04 and plays up on 00/01 on her club team. That's impressive.


JS and AT are 05's and her younger sister is an 06 who also played...their impact is clear at any age group, no excuses for their age needed.  There are other 05's (and 04's) I know that are impact players even if/when they play up, every time they play.  Phenom?  Marketing phenom maybe.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Feb 28, 2019)

Zen said:


> JS and AT are 05's and her younger sister is an 06 who also played...their impact is clear at any age group, no excuses for their age needed.  There are other 05's (and 04's) I know that are impact players even if/when they play up, every time they play.  Phenom?  Marketing phenom maybe.


http://fcdl.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=7422156&player=678680587


----------



## Zen (Feb 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> http://fcdl.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=7422156&player=678680587


Thanks, I assumed 05 vs. young 04.  She's definitely a stand-out and game changer - even for the older age groups.  Her talent is clear and undisputable.


----------



## MacDre (Feb 28, 2019)

End of the Line said:


> Now that they've monetized their daughter, I wonder if the family business will include above the line deductions for the residential property and soccer field they put into the backyard?  The substantial GDA fees and travel costs?  A European vacation, er, soccer trip?  The daughter's cell phone that she uses to "market" herself via social media?  Health insurance premiums?  Mileage to soccer practice and back?  Shoot, giving up a free ride to UNC might make financial sense even if Nike only gave her a pair of cleats.
> 
> On average, there are maybe two girls every birth year in the U.S. for whom "professional soccer player" ends up being a better financial decision than, well, just about any other job.  Miss Moultrie is obviously a very talented 13 year old soccer player but reasonable minds will differ whether she is tracking even now to be one of the two once you get past the Nike and NYT hype.  If giving up a free ride makes sense financially for her and her family, great.  But it does not bode well for the future of girls youth soccer now that sports agents and shoe reps are trolling the U14 sidelines instead of sticking to the AAU basketball games where they belong.


I respectfully disagree with your last sentence.  I think the “new money” is going to make the game attractive to those that have been politically, socially, and economically disenfranchised instead of rich hardworking un athletic Anglo girls.
Soccer in the US is one of the most flagrant examples of de facto segregation and white privilege.
We will start winning when those Americans whose ancestors were selectively bred for performance like pitbuls for centuries have an incentive to enter the game.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Feb 28, 2019)

Zen said:


> Thanks, I assumed 05 vs. young 04.  She's definitely a stand-out and game changer - even for the older age groups.  Her talent is clear and undisputable.


I agree with you on the GT and AT. They have dramatically grown as players. Been watching them for a long time. One of my girls has played against them in various arena's over the years. And remember watching them play with boys as well. They are also plus one year in age. I had to check because I too thought the younger was an 06.


----------



## jose (Feb 28, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I respectfully disagree with your last sentence.  I think the “new money” is going to make the game attractive to those that have been politically, socially, and economically disenfranchised instead of rich hardworking un athletic Anglo girls.
> Soccer in the US is one of the most flagrant examples of de facto segregation and white privilege.
> We will start winning when those Americans whose ancestors were selectively bred for performance like pitbuls for centuries have an incentive to enter the game.


stupidest thing you've said this entire thread.  de facto segregation?  you need a ball to play that is it.  no special equipment no special field or arena use a ball.  but you did get the hardworking anglo part right though.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Feb 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I agree with you on the GT and AT. They have dramatically grown as players. Been watching them for a long time. One of my girls has played against them in various arena's over the years. And remember watching them play with boys as well. They are also plus one year in age. I had to check because I too thought the younger was an 06.


This is why I say it is one thing to be the best at 12/13 and quite another to be the best at 18+.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Feb 28, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> This is why I say it is one thing to be the best at 12/13 and quite another to be the best at 18+.


I agree. Gradual growth.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Feb 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I agree. Gradual growth.


It's not about how fast you paint a masterpiece, what matters is at the end is it actually a masterpiece....


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Feb 28, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> It's not about how fast you paint a masterpiece, what matters is at the end is it actually a masterpiece....


Yes, and if you look at the current WNT (for example) there are a few players who rose through ranks slowly, over time and hitting stride later rather than earlier.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Feb 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Yes, and if you look at the current WNT (for example) there are a few players who rose through ranks slowly, over time and hitting stride later rather than earlier.


And a few that rose fast and had an interesting night last night.


----------



## broshark (Feb 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I agree. Gradual growth.


To what end?


----------



## Chalklines (Feb 28, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I respectfully disagree with your last sentence.  I think the “new money” is going to make the game attractive to those that have been politically, socially, and economically disenfranchised instead of rich hardworking un athletic Anglo girls.
> Soccer in the US is one of the most flagrant examples of de facto segregation and white privilege.
> We will start winning when those Americans whose ancestors were selectively bred for performance like pitbuls for centuries have an incentive to enter the game.


Ohhh here we go. 

So if your really not trolling us which one of Marshawns snake charmers are you? The adult film star?


----------



## MacDre (Feb 28, 2019)

jose said:


> stupidest thing you've said this entire thread.  de facto segregation?  you need a ball to play that is it.  no special equipment no special field or arena use a ball.  but you did get the hardworking anglo part right though.


Hasty conclusion my friend.  If you bring soccer balls to my hood, kids are gonna play basketball or football with them.  These kids have no concept of soccer.  They have never even heard of Messi, Ronaldo, & Newymar.  I am almost embarrassed to admit that I knew absolutely nothing about soccer until my daughter introduced me to the game.  You see, in the US descendants of slaves see basketball, football, and baseball as a way out of the ghetto.  I think this is mostly because basketball, football, and baseball are what kids in the US have been exposed to.
To further illustrate my point lets look at Brazil.  Brazil controlled the slave trade.  Approximately 85% of African-Americans are From Brazil.  After the abolition of slavery Brazil gave the descendants of slaves soccer balls and this is why Brazil is a great soccer nation.  Also, I suspect that if you took a bag of basketballs to a favella in Brazil the kids would play soccer with them because most have no concept of basketball.


jose said:


> stupidest thing you've said this entire thread.  de facto segregation?  you need a ball to play that is it.  no special equipment no special field or arena use a ball.  but you did get the hardworking anglo part right though.


----------



## MacDre (Feb 28, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> Ohhh here we go.
> 
> So if your really not trolling us which one of Marshawns snake charmers are you? The adult film star?


You’re corny


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Feb 28, 2019)

broshark said:


> To what end?


To where ones natural abilities, developed abilities and desires take them.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Feb 28, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> And a few that rose fast and had an interesting night last night.


Recorded it. Going to watch later.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Feb 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Recorded it. Going to watch later.


Be sure to watch all the way through stoppage time.  The last 20 minutes is pretty good.


----------



## End of the Line (Feb 28, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I respectfully disagree with your last sentence.  I think the “new money” is going to make the game attractive to those that have been politically, socially, and economically disenfranchised instead of rich hardworking un athletic Anglo girls.
> Soccer in the US is one of the most flagrant examples of de facto segregation and white privilege.
> We will start winning when those Americans whose ancestors were selectively bred for performance like pitbuls for centuries have an incentive to enter the game.


Yes.  So far, 100% of Nike's "new money" has been given to someone whose parents can afford to buy enough So Cal property upon which to build a soccer field, send their daughter to Europe to train, homeschool her, maximize the tax implications of professionalizing their daughter, move to a new state on a whim, and who have a NYT reporter on speed dial.  I definitely see how Nike making an already affluent kid even richer - and who is now a professional Internet influencer and brand maven helping Nike sell $300 cleats to her other rich friends - is good news for the disenfranchised.

I do appreciate your attempts to stir controversy, though.


----------



## Zen (Feb 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Recorded it. Going to watch later.


It was a great game!  US more athletic but Japan more sophisticated and organized in defense and passing sequences.  Impressive skills on both sides.  I really miss good soccer after a season of high school.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Feb 28, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I respectfully disagree with your last sentence.  I think the “new money” is going to make the game attractive to those that have been politically, socially, and economically disenfranchised instead of rich hardworking un athletic Anglo girls.
> Soccer in the US is one of the most flagrant examples of de facto segregation and white privilege.
> We will start winning when those Americans whose ancestors were selectively bred for performance like pitbuls for centuries have an incentive to enter the game.


What a dope.


----------



## messy (Feb 28, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Hasty conclusion my friend.  If you bring soccer balls to my hood, kids are gonna play basketball or football with them.  These kids have no concept of soccer.  They have never even heard of Messi, Ronaldo, & Newymar.  I am almost embarrassed to admit that I knew absolutely nothing about soccer until my daughter introduced me to the game.  You see, in the US descendants of slaves see basketball, football, and baseball as a way out of the ghetto.  I think this is mostly because basketball, football, and baseball are what kids in the US have been exposed to.
> To further illustrate my point lets look at Brazil.  Brazil controlled the slave trade.  Approximately 85% of African-Americans are From Brazil.  After the abolition of slavery Brazil gave the descendants of slaves soccer balls and this is why Brazil is a great soccer nation.  Also, I suspect that if you took a bag of basketballs to a favella in Brazil the kids would play soccer with them because most have no concept of basketball.


Not enough dough yet in the US. I have been a “soccer guy” for about 10 years and I have repeatedly said that when you go to the hood and see Ronaldo and Neymar and Messi jerseys along with Kobe and MJ and Lebron jerseys, our country will get good at soccer.


----------



## Jack23 (Mar 1, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Lot of merit to what you are saying.  This is why I’m taking a different approach.
> My daughter will start college this fall.  She will graduate from Cal (Math & Spanish major) around 17 and then we are  off to Spain.
> There’s definitely more than one way to skin a cat.
> Please do not under estimate the social aspect.  She’s not going to have an opportunity to enjoy here teens years and when your famous with money it’s harder to find genuine friends.
> ...


How old do you have to be to play college soccer?  Is there an age requirment?


----------



## jose (Mar 1, 2019)

End of the Line said:


> Yes.  So far, 100% of Nike's "new money" has been given to someone whose parents can afford to buy enough So Cal property upon which to build a soccer field, send their daughter to Europe to train, homeschool her, maximize the tax implications of professionalizing their daughter, move to a new state on a whim, and who have a NYT reporter on speed dial.  I definitely see how Nike making an already affluent kid even richer - and who is now a professional Internet influencer and brand maven helping Nike sell $300 cleats to her other rich friends - is good news for the disenfranchised.
> 
> I do appreciate your attempts to stir controversy, though.


they worked hard to afford all those things you seem to be envious of be happy with what you have earned in life


----------



## Justafan (Mar 1, 2019)

MacDre said:


> instead of rich hardworking un athletic Anglo girls.
> 
> We will start winning when those Americans whose ancestors were selectively bred for performance like pitbuls for centuries have an incentive to enter the game.


Now, now, MD, there’s plenty of athletic “Anglo” girls out there.  And don’t make me count them, just as you shouldn’t be asked to count all of the educated successful African-Americans.  Both are very old and disproven stereotypes. 

Don’t get me wrong, I think we all agree that girls soccer, as it currently stands, is mostly white, suburban, and middle class.  Would I like to see more diversity, absolutely, but there is no need to put other people down.


----------



## End of the Line (Mar 1, 2019)

jose said:


> they worked hard to afford all those things you seem to be envious of be happy with what you have earned in life


You're misreading what I'm saying.  I'm a straight-up capitalist.


----------



## mirage (Mar 1, 2019)

Interesting thread that tangentially hijacked by one of our new members.

Like someone mention pages ago herein, one can always go to school but the opportunity clock is ticking away for athletes.  For this 13 yrs old kid, all I can say is "go girl, go"

One of my friend and I were just having a similar conversation about his son.  His son is on 17U Team USA baseball.  Has verbal commitment to D1 school, and is being scouted by MLB.  Maybe its Manny and Bryce $300M+ contacts that disillusions us but we both said if his kid is drafted, and is bringing signing bonus around ~$2M+ he should sign with MLB.

The girl of this subject has nothing close to that figure but is only 13 and ton of uncertainties, other than how marketable she is to Nike's lifestyle social media to other young girls.  But that's good, right?  Because it has a value and someone is willing to pay for it.

I was surprised by some of the reaction on this forum about his kid though.  I too, as someone said earlier, see this as no different than a kid getting paid to do some commercials or acting part. I think many complicates it because they are already they are trading off between college vs professional soccer.  Who cares.  If she wants to become professional soccer player, then she'll have to do what it takes.  If she wants to be a college student, all the exposure will only help her cause to bring value to the school she is applying to.  The fact that she may not be NCAA eligible only matters if she wants to play college sports.  Maybe she'll play pro and attend college during off season.  Or maybe she will have washed out of sports all together by then....


----------



## MacDre (Mar 1, 2019)

End of the Line said:


> Yes.  So far, 100% of Nike's "new money" has been given to someone whose parents can afford to buy enough So Cal property upon which to build a soccer field, send their daughter to Europe to train, homeschool her, maximize the tax implications of professionalizing their daughter, move to a new state on a whim, and who have a NYT reporter on speed dial.  I definitely see how Nike making an already affluent kid even richer - and who is now a professional Internet influencer and brand maven helping Nike sell $300 cleats to her other rich friends - is good news for the disenfranchised.
> 
> I do appreciate your attempts to stir controversy, though.


Yep, so far.  Will see what the future holds


----------



## MacDre (Mar 1, 2019)

messy said:


> Not enough dough yet in the US. I have been a “soccer guy” for about 10 years and I have repeatedly said that when you go to the hood and see Ronaldo and Neymar and Messi jerseys along with Kobe and MJ and Lebron jerseys, our country will get good at soccer.


Hopefully soon.  Good to see good people like you in US Soccer


----------



## MacDre (Mar 1, 2019)

Jack23 said:


> How old do you have to be to play college soccer?  Is there an age requirment?


In terms of soccer IQ, speed of play and technical ability I think my kid is ready.  However, my concern is that she is too small and is going to get hurt.  We are proceeding cautiously until she gets some size on her.

In terms of age I have been told “if they are good enough, then they are old enough.”

I’m hopeful that she’ll be able to compete for a starting position around 14-15 though.


----------



## MacDre (Mar 1, 2019)

Justafan said:


> Now, now, MD, there’s plenty of athletic “Anglo” girls out there.  And don’t make me count them, just as you shouldn’t be asked to count all of the educated successful African-Americans.  Both are very old and disproven stereotypes.
> 
> Don’t get me wrong, I think we all agree that girls soccer, as it currently stands, is mostly white, suburban, and middle class.  Would I like to see more diversity, absolutely, but there is no need to put other people down.


I apologize for not being clear.  There are athletic anglo girls-the USWNT, tennis, and swimming have several. 
I’m talking about the vast majority that are only playing on a competitive teams because there parents are paying.  They have not earned their positions based on ability to play.  Their positions come from their parents ability to pay.
I also think there are un athletic African-American girls but club soccer is not full of them.


----------



## Technician72 (Mar 1, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Here is an article that I believe has not been posted anywhere on the forum. It gives a different perspective on this situation. Non-the-less it appears there is much about this situation that has not been revealed.
> 
> https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/olivia-moultrie-is-a-sign-of-the-times_aid45892


Interesting take when comparing OM to AS. Would have liked for the article to also detail the differences between the parents and their backgrounds to give more back story to how the paths are different / similar. Thanks for the share @LASTMAN14


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Mar 1, 2019)

A good friend actually forwarded that article to me. It appears AS just plays regular old club. And has little fanfare in comparison. But has achieved a great deal.


----------



## Chalklines (Mar 3, 2019)

j


----------



## Chalklines (Mar 3, 2019)

looks like the parents sell snake oil for a living


----------



## espola (Mar 3, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> looks like the parents sell snake oil for a living


Marinovich syndrome.

Oh, wait - I said that already.

They're not out of place, I guess, in a universe where the jersey sponsor of LA Galaxy is a similar oxymoronic (Herbalife Nutrition) pyramid scheme.


----------



## Calisoccer11 (Mar 3, 2019)

Hmmm -I'm thinking this is a good move for Nike and I wouldn't be surprised if this girl becomes the face of the new Nike line geared towards the tweens.  The athleisure wear industry is huge - I'm sure many here on this forum has spent over $100 on lululemon leggings for their 13 year old- I'm not alone, right, right?!!!  Athleta has a line specifically targeted for this age group and while the big names - Nike, Adidas, Under Armour, etc...have gear for this age group, it's not huge...yet.  Good for this girl and I hope this gets her closer to achieving her dreams/goals all while putting cash in the bank!!


----------



## jose (Mar 4, 2019)

MarkM said:


> I'm sure she is spectacular for her age, but I've never seen her really stand out in DA games at u16/u17.  Maybe a half dozen players on her own team look as good or better.  The comparison is a little unfair because she is so young, but  I think that shows why this is so vastly premature.
> 
> I think these arrangements with Nike create a lot of conflicts of interest with US Soccer.  Nike dumps a lot of money into women's soccer, which is great.  But Nike's marketing team shouldn't dictate national team players, which this type of thing tacitly does.


but she is u14. so it takes two/three years older for her to blend that is pretty darn good


----------



## Real Deal (Mar 4, 2019)

Love to see a youngster succeed.  Here are some other impressive young women attempting to break glass ceilings in sports:

https://fox6now.com/2019/03/01/woman-gets-a-college-football-scholarship-to-play-defense-on-mens-team/


----------



## MarkM (Mar 4, 2019)

jose said:


> but she is u14. so it takes two/three years older for her to blend that is pretty darn good


I would say that she is much better than "pretty darn good."  She is a unicorn for her age.  But that's not the question anymore.  She is a pro, so we should compare her against other pros.  How does she stack up against pros?


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Mar 4, 2019)

MarkM said:


> I would say that she is much better than "pretty darn good."  She is a unicorn for her age.  But that's not the question anymore.  She is a pro, so we should compare her against other pros.  How does she stack up against pros?


She's better than Michael Bradley


----------



## oh canada (Mar 4, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> A good friend actually forwarded that article to me. It appears AS just plays regular old club. And has little fanfare in comparison. But has achieved a great deal.


Yes.  As has JH in Canada.  16/17 is a more appropriate age to be making the pro/college decision (Pugh, Horan, etc.).  No need to take options off the table until a decision must be made (H.S. graduation).  That's just sound business advice 101.  Have confidence in your skills and ability.  The money will be there.  Especially if you're going to be "the best in the World."

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/soccer/international-soccer/b-c-teenage-soccer-star-jordyn-huitema-opts-to-forgo-college-and-turn-pro/wcm/1ebdd2c9-8cfb-4ca3-a597-0223c8d4b996


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Mar 4, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Yes.  As has JH in Canada.  16/17 is a more appropriate age to be making the pro/college decision (Pugh, Horan, etc.).  No need to take options off the table until a decision must be made (H.S. graduation).  That's just sound business advice 101.  Have confidence in your skills and ability.  The money will be there.  Especially if you're going to be "the best in the World."
> 
> https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/soccer/international-soccer/b-c-teenage-soccer-star-jordyn-huitema-opts-to-forgo-college-and-turn-pro/wcm/1ebdd2c9-8cfb-4ca3-a597-0223c8d4b996


Didn't even think about Whitecaps having a girls program.  Wonder why they don't play DA similar to the boys side?


----------



## messy (Mar 5, 2019)

jose said:


> but she is u14. so it takes two/three years older for her to blend that is pretty darn good[/QUOTE


----------



## focomoso (Mar 5, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Yes.  As has JH in Canada.  16/17 is a more appropriate age to be making the pro/college decision (Pugh, Horan, etc.).  No need to take options off the table until a decision must be made (H.S. graduation).  That's just sound business advice 101.  Have confidence in your skills and ability.  The money will be there.  Especially if you're going to be "the best in the World."
> 
> https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/soccer/international-soccer/b-c-teenage-soccer-star-jordyn-huitema-opts-to-forgo-college-and-turn-pro/wcm/1ebdd2c9-8cfb-4ca3-a597-0223c8d4b996


How do you know the money will be there? Injuries happen. Abilities fade - especially with puberty. If the question is over taking a little money now and forgoing college, that would be a mistake in my book, but this is not what's happening here. Sound business advice 101 is pretty clear. If you are offered a deal at the age of 13 that pays more than your college tuition, do it. You literally have nothing to lose.


----------



## oh canada (Mar 5, 2019)

focomoso said:


> How do you know the money will be there? Injuries happen. Abilities fade - especially with puberty. If the question is over taking a little money now and forgoing college, that would be a mistake in my book, but this is not what's happening here. Sound business advice 101 is pretty clear. If you are offered a deal at the age of 13 that pays more than your college tuition, do it. You literally have nothing to lose.


Actually, you "literally" are losing something...free college and the ability to play college soccer.  Yes, players can go to college later but it won't be free.  So, in order to come out ahead financially, your deal needs to be worth well more than 4years of college in AFTER tax dollars (subtract 40-50%).  That might be the right choice for some who don't plan to go to college.  I just think most prudent (and rationale) parents put off that decision until it has to be made...at 17/18 years old.  Alex Morgan reportedly earns $3MM/year in endorsement deals from a MULTITUDE of companies, not just Nike.  Coke, McDonald's, Nationwide, etc.  If her Nike deal is worth $500K annually then other USWNT player Nike deals are likely in the $250-300K range.  That means this deal is likely $100-$200K.  After tax that's $70-140K.  Parents are doing this deal not for the money (they look financially secure in their self-promo videos), but for the added clickbait and PR for their child.  Sounds like the kid just wants to play soccer...you go girl.  The parents, however, are motivated by other desires.


----------



## MacDre (Mar 5, 2019)

focomoso said:


> How do you know the money will be there? Injuries happen. Abilities fade - especially with puberty. If the question is over taking a little money now and forgoing college, that would be a mistake in my book, but this is not what's happening here. Sound business advice 101 is pretty clear. If you are offered a deal at the age of 13 that pays more than your college tuition, do it. You literally have nothing to lose.


I do not think it is about the money.  I think it’s about putting her in an environment where she can maximize her potential.
When you look at teams in Europe going pro at this age is common for men and women.  If it worked for Messi, it could work for Olivia too,
Sure, there is a chance that she will fail and not meet her goal.  But I think the probability of her failing by not maximizing her potential in her current environment is higher.
So, in this case 100% worth the risk.


----------



## focomoso (Mar 5, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Actually, you "literally" are losing something...free college and the ability to play college soccer.  Yes, players can go to college later but it won't be free.  So, in order to come out ahead financially, your deal needs to be worth well more than 4years of college in AFTER tax dollars (subtract 40-50%).


All reporting I've seen has said that the deal is worth more than college tuition - which is why I see it as a no brainer.


----------



## focomoso (Mar 5, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I do not think it is about the money.  I think it’s about putting her in an environment where she can maximize her potential.
> When you look at teams in Europe going pro at this age is common for men and women.  If it worked for Messi, it could work for Olivia too,
> Sure, there is a chance that she will fail and not meet her goal.  But I think the probability of her failing by not maximizing her potential in her current environment is higher.
> So, in this case 100% worth the risk.


Except that she isn't "going pro" in the sense of joining a pro team. Her environment isn't changing. She's still playing in a regular DA (though a couple of years up), exactly the same as if she were amateur. She's turning pro in the sense of getting paid by Nike to endorse their products.


----------



## MacDre (Mar 5, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Actually, you "literally" are losing something...free college and the ability to play college soccer.  Yes, players can go to college later but it won't be free.  So, in order to come out ahead financially, your deal needs to be worth well more than 4years of college in AFTER tax dollars (subtract 40-50%).  That might be the right choice for some who don't plan to go to college.  I just think most prudent (and rationale) parents put off that decision until it has to be made...at 17/18 years old.  Alex Morgan reportedly earns $3MM/year in endorsement deals from a MULTITUDE of companies, not just Nike.  Coke, McDonald's, Nationwide, etc.  If her Nike deal is worth $500K annually then other USWNT player Nike deals are likely in the $250-300K range.  That means this deal is likely $100-$200K.  After tax that's $70-140K.  Parents are doing this deal not for the money (they look financially secure in their self-promo videos), but for the added clickbait and PR for their child.  Sounds like the kid just wants to play soccer...you go girl.  The parents, however, are motivated by other desires.


What about development?  How can she get better in an environment where she is the best? It’s the environment they’re after!


----------



## MacDre (Mar 5, 2019)

focomoso said:


> Except that she isn't "going pro" in the sense of joining a pro team. Her environment isn't changing. She's still playing in a regular DA (though a couple of years up), exactly the same as if she were amateur. She's turning pro in the sense of getting paid by Nike to endorse their products.


What about training?  Access to professionals coaches and athletes?  Did anyone see Efraín Álvarez play for the Galaxy the other night?


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Mar 5, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I do not think it is about the money.  I think it’s about putting her in an environment where she can maximize her potential.


I would think that So Cal is a better environment to develop.  Portland Thorns DA does not look very good.


----------



## MacDre (Mar 5, 2019)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> I would think that So Cal is a better environment to develop.  Portland Thorns DA does not look very good.


She will have access to professional athletes and trainers in Portland.  Eventually, I think she’ll get to train with Heath, Horan, & Sonnet?


----------



## Soccer43 (Mar 5, 2019)

MacDre said:


> She will have access to professional athletes and trainers in Portland.  Eventually, I think she’ll get to train with Heath, Horan, & Sonnet?


Maybe


----------



## Dubs (Mar 5, 2019)

Calisoccer11 said:


> Hmmm -I'm thinking this is a good move for Nike and I wouldn't be surprised if this girl becomes the face of the new Nike line geared towards the tweens.  The athleisure wear industry is huge - I'm sure many here on this forum has spent over $100 on lululemon leggings for their 13 year old- I'm not alone, right, right?!!!  Athleta has a line specifically targeted for this age group and while the big names - Nike, Adidas, Under Armour, etc...have gear for this age group, it's not huge...yet.  Good for this girl and I hope this gets her closer to achieving her dreams/goals all while putting cash in the bank!!


Bingo!


----------



## Sidekick (Mar 5, 2019)

SoccerMom05 said:


> Wishing Olivia all the best. She is a sweet and humble kid from my interactions with her at our club. An inspiration to all young girls..


Not very humble when you brag all the time on social media! Be realistic, she hasn’t even reached puberty!


----------



## espola (Mar 5, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Actually, you "literally" are losing something...free college and the ability to play college soccer.  Yes, players can go to college later but it won't be free.  So, in order to come out ahead financially, your deal needs to be worth well more than 4years of college in AFTER tax dollars (subtract 40-50%).  That might be the right choice for some who don't plan to go to college.  I just think most prudent (and rationale) parents put off that decision until it has to be made...at 17/18 years old.  Alex Morgan reportedly earns $3MM/year in endorsement deals from a MULTITUDE of companies, not just Nike.  Coke, McDonald's, Nationwide, etc.  If her Nike deal is worth $500K annually then other USWNT player Nike deals are likely in the $250-300K range.  That means this deal is likely $100-$200K.  After tax that's $70-140K.  Parents are doing this deal not for the money (they look financially secure in their self-promo videos), but for the added clickbait and PR for their child.  Sounds like the kid just wants to play soccer...you go girl.  The parents, however, are motivated by other desires.


Under the Coogan Act (California Family Code Sections 6750–53 and California Labor Code Section 1700.37), 15% of her gross earnings are held in a trust account until she is an adult, paid into the account directly by her employer.  The rest of the money can go to agents, managers, trainers, expenses, etc, at the direction of her parents.


----------



## San Diego (Mar 5, 2019)

focomoso said:


> All reporting I've seen has said that the deal is worth more than college tuition - which is why I see it as a no brainer.


The general rule of thumb for athletes bypassing a college scholarship for a pro contract is that it has to be "life changing money". Heck, even Tiger Woods spent a year at Stanford...


----------



## MarkM (Mar 5, 2019)

espola said:


> Under the Coogan Act (California Family Code Sections 6750–53 and California Labor Code Section 1700.37), 15% of her gross earnings are held in a trust account until she is an adult, paid into the account directly by her employer.  The rest of the money can go to agents, managers, trainers, expenses, etc, at the direction of her parents.


The Coogan Act doesn't apply in Oregon.  Oregon doesn't have an equivalent statute.


----------



## espola (Mar 5, 2019)

MarkM said:


> The Coogan Act doesn't apply in Oregon.  Oregon doesn't have an equivalent statute.


Interesting.


----------



## MarkM (Mar 5, 2019)

focomoso said:


> All reporting I've seen has said that the deal is worth more than college tuition - which is why I see it as a no brainer.


More than what college?  There is huge range that could fall under.  And is it after taxes and agent fees, etc?  For instance, the deal number would need to be north of $500K if she wants to attend USC later in life.  If she got that kind of money, good for her.


----------



## espola (Mar 5, 2019)

MarkM said:


> More than what college?  There is huge range that could fall under.  And is it after taxes and agent fees, etc?  For instance, the deal number would need to be north of $500K if she wants to attend USC later in life.  If she got that kind of money, good for her.


She is already "committed" to UNC - for the academics, right?


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Mar 5, 2019)

espola said:


> She is already "committed" to UNC - for the academics, right?


Are you kidding!?


----------



## messy (Mar 5, 2019)

MarkM said:


> The Coogan Act doesn't apply in Oregon.  Oregon doesn't have an equivalent statute.


She did the deal here.


----------



## Sidekick (Mar 6, 2019)

Daddy and Mommy push the other kids aside and use all their money to push this kid up front. There are many local players way better, however, their parents don’t have all the money to waste on their kids social building! Many talented kids are on the US Soccer radar and make a difference on the field playing at older age levels. This kid lives in the boonies so has a better chance at standing out. Yes, mommy markets her but let’s be realistic... she’ll be 16-17 and wishing she had a normal life. That’s only if her puberty doesn’t hit her so hard that’s she slows down... oh, but mommy will probably make her take birth control pills to control that! Very sad!!  So true that money can help you get to a certain level but staying there takes actual talent... ask Michael Jordan’s son!!


----------



## broshark (Mar 6, 2019)

espola said:


> Under the Coogan Act (California Family Code Sections 6750–53 and California Labor Code Section 1700.37), 15% of her gross earnings are held in a trust account until she is an adult, paid into the account directly by her employer.  The rest of the money can go to agents, managers, trainers, expenses, etc, at the direction of her parents.





messy said:


> She did the deal here.


  Doesn't matter once she moves.


----------



## broshark (Mar 6, 2019)

Sidekick said:


> Daddy and Mommy push the other kids aside and use all their money to push this kid up front. There are many local players way better, however, their parents don’t have all the money to waste on their kids social building! Many talented kids are on the US Soccer radar and make a difference on the field playing at older age levels. This kid lives in the boonies so has a better chance at standing out. Yes, mommy markets her but let’s be realistic... she’ll be 16-17 and wishing she had a normal life. That’s only if her puberty doesn’t hit her so hard that’s she slows down... oh, but mommy will probably make her take birth control pills to control that! Very sad!!  So true that money can help you get to a certain level but staying there takes actual talent... ask Michael Jordan’s son!!


Lulz.


----------



## espola (Mar 6, 2019)

broshark said:


> Doesn't matter once she moves.


Quoting something I heard at work many years ago - "What does the contract say?"


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Mar 6, 2019)

espola said:


> Quoting something I heard at work many years ago - "What does the contract say?"


It states, "Show me the money!"


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Mar 6, 2019)

Sidekick said:


> So true that money can help you get to a certain level but staying there takes actual talent... ask Michael Jordan’s son!!


You think it takes talent to stay at the top - Lol. Good one.


----------



## jose (Mar 6, 2019)

Sidekick said:


> There are many local players way better, however, their parents don’t have all the money to waste on their kids social building! Many talented kids are on the US Soccer radar and make a difference on the field playing at older age levels. This kid lives in the boonies so has a better chance at standing out. Yes, mommy markets her but let’s be realistic... she’ll be 16-17 and wishing she had a normal life. That’s only if her puberty doesn’t hit her so hard that’s she slows down... oh, but mommy will probably make her take birth control pills to control that! Very sad!!  So true that money can help you get to a certain level but staying there takes actual talent... ask Michael Jordan’s son!!


You had me until you said many local players were way better. They aren't better.  They live in the boonies?  they have been driving over 90 miles from the boonies to South OC to play for competitive teams.  she plays up 2 years.  You obviously don't know her.  I wish her the best but i wouldn't encourage my kid to do anything of the sort, then again she doesn't have her talent


----------



## Sidekick (Mar 6, 2019)

jose said:


> You had me until you said many local players were way better. They aren't better.  They live in the boonies?  they have been driving over 90 miles from the boonies to South OC to play for competitive teams.  she plays up 2 years.  You obviously don't know her.  I wish her the best but i wouldn't encourage my kid to do anything of the sort, then again she doesn't have her talent



She played  for Beach.... NOT exactly South OC!


----------



## jose (Mar 6, 2019)

Sidekick said:


> She played  for Beach.... NOT exactly South OC!


She previously played for blues CAN'T exactly get much further South OC!


----------



## Sidekick (Mar 6, 2019)

jose said:


> She previously played for blues CAN'T exactly get much further South OC!


You keep bragging about how far she travels, NOT traveled years ago! Lol


----------



## Soccer43 (Mar 6, 2019)

Everyone keeps talking about her talent but if she was that significantly better than other players (even those her own age) she would have /should have been able to make a difference on the field and stand out during the U15 concacaf games.   She has some mad foot skills but that doesn't necessarily add to your soccer IQ or ability to do something with those skills during actual games and under pressure.


----------



## espola (Mar 6, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Everyone keeps talking about her talent but if she was that significantly better than other players (even those her own age) she would have /should have been able to make a difference on the field and stand out during the U15 concacaf games.   She has some mad foot skills but that doesn't necessarily add to your soccer IQ or ability to do something with those skills during actual games and under pressure.


Are there any videos available on line that show her in game situations (and not just highlights)?


----------



## Soccer43 (Mar 6, 2019)

yes, the link was posted on this thread a few pages back of her playing in the U15 concacaf game against Mexico.

On page 4


----------



## Sidekick (Mar 7, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Everyone keeps talking about her talent but if she was that significantly better than other players (even those her own age) she would have /should have been able to make a difference on the field and stand out during the U15 concacaf games.   She has some mad foot skills but that doesn't necessarily add to your soccer IQ or ability to do something with those skills during actual games and under pressure.


Exactly!! Foot skills yes, game skills NO! Beach was the only club willing to take demands from Mommy/Daddy to play her up! Soccer 43 has it correct... not a game changer with US soccer but that’s why Mommy pushed so hard for other opportunities. No one juggles a ball 1,000 times in a game... Lol!  Good luck!


----------



## Soccer43 (Mar 7, 2019)

Sidekick said:


> Exactly!! Foot skills yes, game skills NO! Beach was the only club willing to take demands from Mommy/Daddy to play her up! Soccer 43 has it correct... not a game changer with US soccer but that’s why Mommy pushed so hard for other opportunities. No one juggles a ball 1,000 times in a game... Lol!  Good luck!


finally, a voice of reason and speaking the truth.  I wish her all the best and as I have said before I wish her nothing but success in her pathway but people have to be reasonable and rational when discussing who the top players are at the youth level and why they are considered the best.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Mar 7, 2019)

Sidekick said:


> Exactly!! Foot skills yes, game skills NO! Beach was the only club willing to take demands from Mommy/Daddy to play her up! Soccer 43 has it correct... not a game changer with US soccer but that’s why Mommy pushed so hard for other opportunities. No one juggles a ball 1,000 times in a game... Lol!  Good luck!


It sounds like you have touched upon a small bit of the truth.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Mar 7, 2019)

I thought there was an unwritten rule about singling out kids on this forum? Man there's some real bitter losers out there. I'd love to see these people react if their kid was under the forum spotlight.


----------



## Soccer43 (Mar 7, 2019)

She is a public figure with a large social media following that has been promoted by her parents and she has signed a contract with Nike as a professional spokesperson- she is hardly just a kid that plays soccer somewhere.  You can’t promote yourself in the public arena and make money off of it and not expect people to have opinions.  I am neither bitter nor a loser just have some opinions like everyone else.  I am extremely proud and happy with where my DD’s are in this world and would not want that life for them.  I also make a point of not parading my DD’s in social media and all over the internet.  Their lives are their own and I honor their privacy


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Mar 7, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> She is a public figure with a large social media following that has been promoted by her parents and she has signed a contract with Nike as a professional spokesperson- she is hardly just a kid that plays soccer somewhere.  You can’t promote yourself in the public arena and make money off of it and not expect people to have opinions.  I am neither bitter nor a loser just have some opinions like everyone else.  I am extremely proud and happy with where my DD’s are in this world and would not want that life for them.  I also make a point of not parading my DD’s in social media and all over the internet.  Their lives are their own and I honor their privacy


You have kids. Maybe act like a parent or at least an adult. She's still a kid. Social media or not.


----------



## Soccer43 (Mar 7, 2019)

What is your agenda?  this is a public forum for adults.  I have a right to express my thoughts and I have not said anything disparaging about her other than I didn’t see her stand out or make a difference in a match which was also posted in a public way on the internet by US Soccer.  I have also made comments only about her parent’s decision and how it wouldn’t be a decision I would make.   Talk to her dad if you are concerned about her public presence and people comenting on her.  I wish only the best for her as I have said time and again in this thread - I am just not buying the sales pitch and media marketing that has been developed and promoted by her own father.    If your statements are being challenged by other posters here don’t turn it into a public attack on me.  You can’t be a public figure and engage in grown up contract to be a highly paid spokesperson and expect that people won’t have thoughts about it.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Mar 7, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Everyone keeps talking about her talent but if she was that significantly better than other players (even those her own age) she would have /should have been able to make a difference on the field and stand out during the U15 concacaf games.   She has some mad foot skills but that doesn't necessarily add to your soccer IQ or ability to do something with those skills during actual games and under pressure.


She was 13 at the time....EVERY player has a spell where they don’t perform at their best especially when they are at that stage in their human development.  We have no idea what she may have been coping with during that time. 

As an FYI, she has a tremendous Soccer IQ.  My only knock would be that she tries to do too much and doesn’t play enough of the team game.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Mar 7, 2019)

“Man there's some real bitter losers out there. I'd love to see these people react if their kid was under the forum spotlight.”

Does not single you out. You engaged. Justify all you want


----------



## Soccer43 (Mar 7, 2019)

Better be careful, SI doesn’t think you should be making those kinds of comments about what she is not doing right.

I agree with your comments.  My reaction to all of this is raising her up on a pedestal above all other elite players that work hard too and already assuming she is on the WNT soon


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Mar 7, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Better be careful, SI doesn’t think you should be making those kinds of comments about what she is not doing right.
> 
> I agree with your comments.  My reaction to all of this is raising her up on a pedestal above all other elite players that work hard too and already assuming she is on the WNT soon


I’d take the same position for any child. Regardless of ability or social presence.


----------



## Soccer43 (Mar 7, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> “Man there's some real bitter losers out there. I'd love to see these people react if their kid was under the forum spotlight.”
> 
> Does not single you out. You engaged. Justify all you want


I don’t have to justify anything - you only made the attack on me when a couple posters agreed with some of my comments and yes you did make it a personal statement about me in your post above.  Are you her dad and the discussion now isn’t fitting with your agenda?  This has been an interesting thread but I think it has run its course for me.  At this point just seem to have to keep repeating  things that have already been said.


----------



## Justafan (Mar 7, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> As an FYI, she has a tremendous Soccer IQ.  My only knock would be that she tries to do too much and doesn’t play enough of the team game.


Never seen her, does she project more as a midfielder or forward?


----------



## MarkM (Mar 7, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> You have kids. Maybe act like a parent or at least an adult. She's still a kid. Social media or not.


Funny.  This is exactly what I think should be told to her parents.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Mar 7, 2019)

Justafan said:


> Never seen her, does she project more as a midfielder or forward?


More of a #10


----------



## GKDad65 (Mar 7, 2019)

15 minutes of fame, and then she'll be 14...

Best of luck, have fun, but all this hype is a joke and will be over soon.


----------



## socalkdg (Mar 7, 2019)

GKDad65 said:


> 15 minutes of fame, and then she'll be 14...
> 
> Best of luck, have fun, but all this hype is a joke and will be over soon.


Sadly this is what everyone said about Kylie Jenner.   Now the youngest billionaire.


----------



## Blank95661 (Mar 7, 2019)

socalkdg said:


> Sadly this is what everyone said about Kylie Jenner.   Now the youngest billionaire.


Actually no one said that about Kylie Jenner, but I digress.  Everyone has the right to try to make a living and do what makes them happy.  If it works out for her great, if it doesn't that's okay too because its her choice.  I just don't understand why so many adults (presumably soccer fans) would be rooting for this kid to fail?  Jealous your precious kid isn't getting the same hype.  Let's grow up people.


----------



## Soccer43 (Mar 7, 2019)

Who is rooting for her to fail?  As a parent I think it was a bad idea but it doesn’t mean I want her to fail .


----------



## messy (Mar 7, 2019)

GKDad65 said:


> 15 minutes of fame, and then she'll be 14...
> 
> Best of luck, have fun, but all this hype is a joke and will be over soon.


This hype is just about over already, for this initial move with Nike and Portland. My guess is she will develop over the next few years (she won't be 14 until September) and, by 16 or so, will be proving to be the next Mia Hamm or Alex Morgan.


----------



## dejong21 (Mar 7, 2019)

MacDre said:


> She will have access to professional athletes and trainers in Portland.  Eventually, I think she’ll get to train with Heath, Horan, & Sonnet?


https://www.oregonlive.com/portland-thorns/2019/03/13-year-old-olivia-moultrie-trains-with-portland-thorns.html


----------



## Chalklines (Mar 7, 2019)

the salt content of this threads great!


----------



## LA_2028 (Apr 30, 2019)

update on the 13 year old:

https://sports.yahoo.com/olivia-moultrie-became-youngest-pro-in-womens-soccer-at-13-but-she-cant-play-for-a-topflight-club-so-whats-next-211506300.html


----------



## Soccer43 (Apr 30, 2019)

Well written article , thanks for sharing - I think her best bet is to go train with the boys and try to get into the MLS


----------



## Sidekick (Apr 30, 2019)

Stupid mistake by her parents! She’s not good enough to handle it all!! She needs to mature emotionally, academically and go through puberty. She wouldn’t be doing this if she didn’t have one heck of a selfish agent trying to get their 15 minutes of their own fame in getting her to appear as if she’s actually playing pro!  A really good agent would’ve set her straight on the path of success, taking steps to get exposure while playing the game and continuing to learn.  She’s very gifted but not more than some girls that are 17-18 in So Cal on top teams.  College provides many different experiences in addition to getting an education. Her parents are fools!! They are only seeing $$$$... so sad and selfish!


----------



## futboldad1 (Apr 30, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Well written article , thanks for sharing - I think her best bet is to go train with the boys and try to get into the MLS


You're kidding, right? Once puberty kicks in for boys girls are not able to play with them. OM is a wonderful talent, but she could not play in the MLS (and the MLS is a million miles from being a top flight league)

I'll reiterate what I said earlier; OM deserves her deal and opportunity and I'm rooting for her to become a world famous force in the women's game.


----------



## timbuck (Apr 30, 2019)

Wow.  Very interesting article.  Is she not allowed to play on Thorns DA teams?  
She is training with the senior team.  Which is probably really cool.
But a 13 year old girl girl hanging around with a bunch of pro women, has to be very interesting.  The next youngest person on the team is 19.  The oldest is 30.
I'm not sure what women's locker rooms are like, but if I was a 13 year old boy hanging around 20-30 year old men-  It would certainly have messed me up.  The things a 13 year old deals with on a daily basis are vastly different from what a 25 year old deals with.


----------



## Soccer43 (Apr 30, 2019)

futboldad1 said:


> You're kidding, right? Once puberty kicks in for boys girls are not able to play with them. OM is a wonderful talent, but she could not play in the MLS (and the MLS is a million miles from being a top flight league)
> 
> I'll reiterate what I said earlier; OM deserves her deal and opportunity and I'm rooting for her to become a world famous force in the women's game.


I was being tongue and cheek -I am not in favor of this pathway for girls - doesn’t matter how amazing you are there is a financial limit and that top end isn’t exciting and like you said women can never compete on the same playing field as men strictly because of genetics and physicality


----------



## Soccer43 (Apr 30, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Wow.  Very interesting article.  Is she not allowed to play on Thorns DA teams?
> She is training with the senior team.  Which is probably really cool.
> But a 13 year old girl girl hanging around with a bunch of pro women, has to be very interesting.  The next youngest person on the team is 19.  The oldest is 30.
> I'm not sure what women's locker rooms are like, but if I was a 13 year old boy hanging around 20-30 year old men-  It would certainly have messed me up.  The things a 13 year old deals with on a daily basis are vastly different from what a 25 year old deals with.


She is on the Thorns DA roster and I believe playing with that 16/17 team. - you can see the match report to see playing times etx


----------



## jpeter (Apr 30, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Wow.  Very interesting article.  Is she not allowed to play on Thorns DA teams?
> She is training with the senior team.  Which is probably really cool.
> But a 13 year old girl girl hanging around with a bunch of pro women, has to be very interesting.  The next youngest person on the team is 19.  The oldest is 30.
> I'm not sure what women's locker rooms are like, but if I was a 13 year old boy hanging around 20-30 year old men-  It would certainly have messed me up.  The things a 13 year old deals with on a daily basis are vastly different from what a 25 year old deals with.


NSWL doesn't have a home grown player rule yet or dibs on players in there academy. 

The is new ground for the league, since most players from colleges,  first minor so the throns are trying to figure out a way to hold onto her rights until she can go pro.  She could walk for free and play in Europe for example like some of the boys DA players have done.


----------



## Dos Equis (Apr 30, 2019)

One path for OM, a better one in my opinion, would have been to get the same level of training (cut a deal with Portland or another NWSL team with an affiliated academy to train with the senior team), while maintaining her eligibility and options to play amateur and in college.  If she really is that good, then such an option should have been available without a Nike contract. So I must conclude this about marketing and money, and not just what is best for a 13 year-old athlete. Perhaps NWSL soccer is now like auto racing. You get the spot if you can bring the  sponsorship.  What a sad thought.  

I wish her happiness and success.  Parsons seems like he understands the risks and challenges --  I hope those who advise her do as well.


----------



## dk_b (Apr 30, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Wow.  Very interesting article.  Is she not allowed to play on Thorns DA teams?
> She is training with the senior team.  Which is probably really cool.
> But a 13 year old girl girl hanging around with a bunch of pro women, has to be very interesting.  The next youngest person on the team is 19.  The oldest is 30.
> I'm not sure what women's locker rooms are like, but if I was a 13 year old boy hanging around 20-30 year old men-  It would certainly have messed me up.  The things a 13 year old deals with on a daily basis are vastly different from what a 25 year old deals with.


This is a great point.  Kids do need their own social peer group and I hope that the parents are doing what they can to make sure she has that.  It is hard enough for freshman HS players playing with 18-year-old seniors.  What the girls are talking about is often (um, perhaps nearly always) unrelated to the pitch.  I'd expect the Thorns would either screen OM or "mascot" her a bit but that carries its own social isolation - she may be with those women but she's not a peer to them even if her soccer IQ is comparable.


----------



## oh canada (Apr 30, 2019)

LA_2028 said:


> update on the 13 year old:
> 
> https://sports.yahoo.com/olivia-moultrie-became-youngest-pro-in-womens-soccer-at-13-but-she-cant-play-for-a-topflight-club-so-whats-next-211506300.html


Yawn.  OM Dad, please stop posting links about your kid.  Time will tell.  Enough said.


----------



## Eagle33 (Apr 30, 2019)

dk_b said:


> This is a great point.  Kids do need their own social peer group and I hope that the parents are doing what they can to make sure she has that.  It is hard enough for freshman HS players playing with 18-year-old seniors.  What the girls are talking about is often (um, perhaps nearly always) unrelated to the pitch.  I'd expect the Thorns would either screen OM or "mascot" her a bit but that carries its own social isolation - she may be with those women but she's not a peer to them even if her soccer IQ is comparable.


Playing with different age players on the same team happens all over the world. 16 year old playing alongside 40 year old.
Here we making a big deal about it and using it as an excuse not to let players do it. If the player is good enough, he/she should be playing up, period.


----------



## dk_b (Apr 30, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> Playing with different age players on the same team happens all over the world. 16 year old playing alongside 40 year old.
> Here we making a big deal about it and using it as an excuse not to let players do it. If the player is good enough, he/she should be playing up, period.


My point is not whether she can hang on the pitch - and I am well aware of this happening everywhere.  In fact, I think one of US Soccer's great failings on the boys' side is that they don't scout adult Sunday leagues in less club-based areas where talented young teens are playing with dads and uncles and other men.  

But my point has to do with social development - all I know about this situation is what has been reported and a 13yo playing with women creates social issues.  Either the child is creating peer relationships with grown women or she's being socially isolated b/c they are not her peers and won't be for a number of years. Either way, it is socially-isolating from similarly-aged peer group (and even the MOST MATURE 13yo is not a grown woman).  

That may not matter under a soccer-focused prism but, as parents of kids (as I assume that most of us on this board are), I'd expect that we'd see the OM situation as having implications that are not just limited to soccer.  If it were "just soccer", then the issue is not that complex - "can she hang now?" (not even can she hang at 16 or 18 or 20 because, like in Europe, the ones who don't make it just become fodder for those who do).  If the answer is "yes", then let her play.  Who cares?  But we do care (as a discussion topic; I assume people who actually know her or her family are not commenting on this board) b/c we don't see it as "just soccer".  We speculate on the impact on the kid, on other kids who might follow the same path, on the motivations of her parents, etc.  If many of us wonder whether it is the right thing for a kid to be committing to college in 7th or 8th grade, those same people probably wonder even more if it is the right thing for a kid to turn pro at the same age and give up not just soccer but so many other aspects of what it means to be a teenager.  Hey, the payoff may be worth it (thus the discussion) but the issues are not simple ones.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Apr 30, 2019)

dk_b said:


> My point is not whether she can hang on the pitch - and I am well aware of this happening everywhere.  In fact, I think one of US Soccer's great failings on the boys' side is that they don't scout adult Sunday leagues in less club-based areas where talented young teens are playing with dads and uncles and other men.
> 
> But my point has to do with social development - all I know about this situation is what has been reported and a 13yo playing with women creates social issues.  Either the child is creating peer relationships with grown women or she's being socially isolated b/c they are not her peers and won't be for a number of years. Either way, it is socially-isolating from similarly-aged peer group (and even the MOST MATURE 13yo is not a grown woman).
> 
> That may not matter under a soccer-focused prism but, as parents of kids (as I assume that most of us on this board are), I'd expect that we'd see the OM situation as having implications that are not just limited to soccer.  If it were "just soccer", then the issue is not that complex - "can she hang now?" (not even can she hang at 16 or 18 or 20 because, like in Europe, the ones who don't make it just become fodder for those who do).  If the answer is "yes", then let her play.  Who cares?  But we do care (as a discussion topic; I assume people who actually know her or her family are not commenting on this board) b/c we don't see it as "just soccer".  We speculate on the impact on the kid, on other kids who might follow the same path, on the motivations of her parents, etc.  If many of us wonder whether it is the right thing for a kid to be committing to college in 7th or 8th grade, those same people probably wonder even more if it is the right thing for a kid to turn pro at the same age and give up not just soccer but so many other aspects of what it means to be a teenager.  Hey, the payoff may be worth it (thus the discussion) but the issues are not simple ones.


This is not a social issue that affects many.  What we have to assume is that her parents (like all of us with our own kids) always have her best interest in mind and made their decisions accordingly.  Social isolation?  Why speculate on such thing without any insight.  No one on this forum knows whether soccer off the pitch is 50% of her life or just 1% of her life.

There was a 11-year old kid in my computer programming class back when I was in college.  Trust me, he turned out just fine (and spectacularly successful).


----------



## dk_b (Apr 30, 2019)

Messi>CR7 said:


> This is not a social issue that affects many.  What we have to assume is that her parents (like all of us with our own kids) always have her best interest in mind and made their decisions accordingly.  Social isolation?  Why speculate on such thing without any insight.  No one on this forum knows whether soccer off the pitch is 50% of her life or just 1% of her life.
> 
> There was a 11-year old kid in my computer programming class back when I was in college.  Trust me, he turned out just fine (and spectacularly successful).


What do we do on this board if it does not involve speculation?  And I don't disagree with any of what you have written - I have to assume her parents have her best interest in mind but her mom's comments in the original profile I read creeped me out a bit.  And while most parents do make decisions under the guise of the "best interests of their kids", they often spectacularly fail in that - the recent admissions schedule is a huge example of that (though I'd argue that they might have thought they were thinking of their kids, they were thinking of themselves and their own fragile egos).  OM's parents have made this a story and by doing that open themselves up for criticism and speculation about their intent and the impact of their decision.

I really do hope it works for her in every way imaginable.  That she looks back on her time as a 13-year-old and sees all that she has received from the experience and considers it far better than what she may have given up (and let's not kid ourselves - every elite athlete makes some sacrifices).  I hope that her parents are allowing her to be a teen - whatever that may mean for her - and she has peers around whom she gets to be 13 rather than feel continuous pressure to show her prodigious Soccer IQ.  I hope she is like that 11 year old you mention and has success beyond her dreams.  But we know there are other precocious 11 year olds who were harmed in similar pursuits (of course we are talking about a tiny fraction of people) and there are a number of young European phenoms on the boys' side who attended European academies but are never heard from because their best years were at 15 or 16 and they never made the first teams or the senior squad for their countries.


----------



## Eagle33 (Apr 30, 2019)

dk_b said:


> What do we do on this board if it does not involve speculation?  And I don't disagree with any of what you have written - I have to assume her parents have her best interest in mind but her mom's comments in the original profile I read creeped me out a bit.  And while most parents do make decisions under the guise of the "best interests of their kids", they often spectacularly fail in that - the recent admissions schedule is a huge example of that (though I'd argue that they might have thought they were thinking of their kids, they were thinking of themselves and their own fragile egos).  OM's parents have made this a story and by doing that open themselves up for criticism and speculation about their intent and the impact of their decision.
> 
> I really do hope it works for her in every way imaginable.  That she looks back on her time as a 13-year-old and sees all that she has received from the experience and considers it far better than what she may have given up (and let's not kid ourselves - every elite athlete makes some sacrifices).  I hope that her parents are allowing her to be a teen - whatever that may mean for her - and she has peers around whom she gets to be 13 rather than feel continuous pressure to show her prodigious Soccer IQ.  I hope she is like that 11 year old you mention and has success beyond her dreams.  But we know there are other precocious 11 year olds who were harmed in similar pursuits (of course we are talking about a tiny fraction of people) and there are a number of young European phenoms on the boys' side who attended European academies but are never heard from because their best years were at 15 or 16 and they never made the first teams or the senior squad for their countries.


One thing you need to understand that in the professional soccer world there is no social differences. All participants live and breathe soccer. It is 99% of their life and daily routine. Players of not only different age, but also of different backgrounds and nationalities.


----------



## dk_b (Apr 30, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> One thing you need to understand that in the professional soccer world there is no social differences. All participants live and breathe soccer. It is 99% of their life and daily routine. Players of not only different age, but also of different backgrounds and nationalities.


Yes, I understand.  We are not discussing JUST the life of a professional athlete.  And you sort of make the point of my concern - do you make that choice for your 13yo daughter?  Is that time to make soccer - or any endeavor - "99% of their life and daily routine"?  Do you want her to be hanging without age group peers?  And all for something that MAY provide a lifetime of income or glory or travel but, at least on the women's side, has little precedent of doing so.

This is noteworthy because it is unusual.  And Thorns, US Soccer, Nike and the girl's family are dealing with new terrain - and only one can count on the girl's interest as primary.  As I said, I wish her the best and all the success in the world.


----------



## timbuck (Apr 30, 2019)

Messi>CR7 said:


> This is not a social issue that affects many.  What we have to assume is that her parents (like all of us with our own kids) always have her best interest in mind and made their decisions accordingly.  Social isolation?  Why speculate on such thing without any insight.  No one on this forum knows whether soccer off the pitch is 50% of her life or just 1% of her life.
> 
> There was a 11-year old kid in my computer programming class back when I was in college.  Trust me, he turned out just fine (and spectacularly successful).


11 year old computer wiz might be a bit different than an athlete.
Computer wiz is heads down in class. Goes home.  Studies. Creates some cool new software.  Creates some more cool new software. Might hit the beach/mall/etc with a few friends.  Might have some group projects with older classmates.  Probably gets stuck doing some of the work for them because he is crazy smart and doesn't have much of a social life, while college classmates hit the bar and/or the bong.

13 year old soccer phenom.  Goes to practice.  Has locker room before practice. And after practice.  Sees teammates walking around in various states of having clothes on.  (I've never been in a female locker room.  But I have seen Porky's a few times).  Maybe they talk about their life outside of soccer.  Maybe it involves men or women in the lives.  Maybe it involves family stuff that 13 year olds are usually sheltered from (divorce, cheating, finances, etc).  Maybe they talk about a team they are playing against and how they hate another player and they are going to try and hurt her. (Not that this could happen.  But adults don't always practice the same sportsmanship that we want our young players to demonstrate).  Im sure that coaches also talk a bit diffent to 25 year old women than they do to 13 year old girls.  (At least I hope so).


----------



## socalkdg (Apr 30, 2019)

So my 13 year old daughter practices once or twice a week with 17 & 18 year old girls who play for 01 and 02 Premier teams.   The two keepers for each team have taken her under their wing, offer tips, give encouragement.  Honestly she looks forward to this more than her practice with her 05 team.   I have to agree.  Getting instruction from one girl that will play college next year and another that may play college is better than any keeper coach or regular coach.  They speak to her as an equal, she faces shots from other 18 year olds, gets compliments when she makes a great play,  gets instruction if she could have taken a slide step before the dive, and is loving every minute of it.   

Now this isn't 25 year olds, no locker room, etc., but maybe this kid is enjoying herself.   Throw in the money and who are we to say if she made the right choice.


----------



## outside! (Apr 30, 2019)

timbuck said:


> (I've never been in a female locker room.  But I have seen Porky's a few times).(At least I hope so).


Wait, you've seen Porky's more than once?


----------



## dk_b (Apr 30, 2019)

socalkdg said:


> So my 13 year old daughter practices once or twice a week with 17 & 18 year old girls who play for 01 and 02 Premier teams.   The two keepers for each team have taken her under their wing, offer tips, give encouragement.  Honestly she looks forward to this more than her practice with her 05 team.   I have to agree.  Getting instruction from one girl that will play college next year and another that may play college is better than any keeper coach or regular coach.  They speak to her as an equal, she faces shots from other 18 year olds, gets compliments when she makes a great play,  gets instruction if she could have taken a slide step before the dive, and is loving every minute of it.
> 
> Now this isn't 25 year olds, no locker room, etc., but maybe this kid is enjoying herself.   Throw in the money and who are we to say if she made the right choice.


I love what you have written - as the parent of a GK as well, my daughter has been that 13yo and is now that 17yo.  Nothing that I wrote is meant to suggest that targeted cross-aged training (even in OM's situation) is wrong.  But in a group setting when the girls looking out for your 13yo are distracted or with their peers, the conversation about partying and sex and this guy or this girl - normal stuff among high schoolers - are a bit vivid for that 13yo.  When my daughter was a freshman, she had HS girls looking out for her and others who really wanted to get her to party with them and the guys on the boys' team.  I doubt a 25yo pro will be discussing her dating life with a 13yo but she may be discussing it with her peer next to them.  It is just hard for everyone to be themselves when the age spread is just so vast.


----------



## focomoso (Apr 30, 2019)

outside! said:


> Wait, you've seen Porky's more than once?


Well, he fast forwarded through most of it after the first time...


----------



## Sidekick (Apr 30, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> Playing with different age players on the same team happens all over the world. 16 year old playing alongside 40 year old.
> Here we making a big deal about it and using it as an excuse not to let players do it. If the player is good enough, he/she should be playing up, period.



If she was good enough, she would’ve made the older US Women’s National Team. They obviously feel she’s not ready. Let’s be real, she’s still a little girl. Is she talented, sure. Can she compete with older, more mature and physically stronger women? NO! Will she get there, only time will tell. However, in my opinion, we won’t even see her name in 5 years!


----------



## MacDre (Apr 30, 2019)

Sidekick said:


> Stupid mistake by her parents! She’s not good enough to handle it all!! She needs to mature emotionally, academically and go through puberty. She wouldn’t be doing this if she didn’t have one heck of a selfish agent trying to get their 15 minutes of their own fame in getting her to appear as if she’s actually playing pro!  A really good agent would’ve set her straight on the path of success, taking steps to get exposure while playing the game and continuing to learn.  She’s very gifted but not more than some girls that are 17-18 in So Cal on top teams.  College provides many different experiences in addition to getting an education. Her parents are fools!! They are only seeing $$$$... so sad and selfish!


I do not think that OM parents are stupid, but I think you lack insight about the true nature of the problem. 
First, I think the move to Portland is about putting her in an environment where she grow.  Currently, the GDA is full of kids that lack talent and are only using soccer to help get into college.  Consequently, the GDA games normally look like some ugly combination of kickball and NFL football.  How the hell is she gonna grow and become world class in this type of environment.
Second, college soccer kinda sucks and doesn’t resemble how the game is played.  College soccer really sucks if you’re playing at UNC for Anson Dorrance; All this guy does is play kickball, sub in players and press the entire game.  I’m at a loss as to how an environment such as UNC could maximize her development. I would also argue that the environment at UNC has hindered the development of their players in the past.  The players from UNC


Sidekick said:


> If she was good enough, she would’ve made the older US Women’s National Team. They obviously feel she’s not ready. Let’s be real, she’s still a little girl. Is she talented, sure. Can she compete with older, more mature and physically stronger women? NO! Will she get there, only time will tell. However, in my opinion, we won’t even see her name in 5 years!


Why do you think we won’t see her name in 5 years?


----------



## Real Deal (Apr 30, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I do not think that OM parents are stupid, but I think you lack insight about the true nature of the problem.
> First, I think the move to Portland is about putting her in an environment where she grow.  Currently, the GDA is full of kids that lack talent and are only using soccer to help get into college.  Consequently, the GDA games normally look like some ugly combination of kickb"all and NFL football.  How the hell is she gonna grow and become world class in this type of environment.
> Second, college soccer kinda sucks and doesn’t resemble how the game is played.  College soccer really sucks if you’re playing at UNC for Anson Dorrance; All this guy does is play kickball, sub in players and press the entire game.  I’m at a loss as to how an environment such as UNC could maximize her development. I would also argue that the environment at UNC has hindered the development of their players in the past.



Wow, no comment on her at all, but this is about what you are saying here.  This statement is incredibly pretentious and offensive to GDA players, college players, and NWSL pro players, who are certainly not there for the purpose of "developing" a youth player even if they are as amazing as she is.


----------



## MacDre (Apr 30, 2019)

Real Deal said:


> Wow, no comment on her at all, but this is about what you are saying here.  This statement is incredibly pretentious and offensive to GDA players, college players, and NWSL pro players, who are certainly not there for the purpose of "developing" a youth
> I’m confused...please, say more.


----------



## MacDre (Apr 30, 2019)

I’m confused...please, say more.


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 1, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I do not think that OM parents are stupid, but I think you lack insight about the true nature of the problem.
> First, I think the move to Portland is about putting her in an environment where she grow.  Currently, the GDA is full of kids that lack talent and are only using soccer to help get into college.  Consequently, the GDA games normally look like some ugly combination of kickball and NFL football.  How the hell is she gonna grow and become world class in this type of environment.
> Second, college soccer kinda sucks and doesn’t resemble how the game is played.  College soccer really sucks if you’re playing at UNC for Anson Dorrance; All this guy does is play kickball, sub in players and press the entire game.  I’m at a loss as to how an environment such as UNC could maximize her development. I would also argue that the environment at UNC has hindered the development of their players in the past.  The players from UNC
> 
> Why do you think we won’t see her name in 5 years?


Have you seen Stanford, UCLA, Penn State or Florida State play?


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 1, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> One thing you need to understand that in the professional soccer world there is no social differences. All participants live and breathe soccer. It is 99% of their life and daily routine. Players of not only different age, but also of different backgrounds and nationalities.


I disagree.  They talk less about soccer than you think.  I know a player who has been on her full national team since she was 15 and she is more interested in her engineering degree than anything.  Her engineer father though will talk soccer with me all day.  The best players have amazingly balanced lives.  They go to concerts, care about social justice and grind it out in school.  I believe only three members of our current WNT don’t have college degrees and most have them from extremely prestigious universities.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 1, 2019)

For females, the interpersonal aspect of soccer and the social relationships are very significant parts of the team.  Grown women have conversations about sex, drugs and alcohol, getting married, having children, financial pressures, buying a house, making big life decisions etc.  that is something a 13 year old is usually not talking about and doesn’t have any experiences to contribute or participate in the conversation.  So someone in that situation is just listening and not really getting all of it, or is being exposed to mature adult issues that she shouldn’t be or is just isolated from all of it and not in a position to developer the relationships with other teammates in a normal way.  Being 13 hanging out with adult women is different than being 16 or 17 hanging out with adult women.

Also, everyone is assuming that because this move has been made that she is of course that good.  As has been said on this thread, time will tell how this plays out.  If one is an impact player that will be seen in every environment where that player plays.  Not sure that is being demonstrated here.  There are many elite players in GDA and ECNL that are amazingly talented- the difference is the media campaign and the skillful marketing of parents to make a splashy presence.  Also, as I have said before- the end goal for females is significantly lower than for males-  Having an education and other career goals has a higher payout down the road than in women’s professional soccer.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> I disagree.  They talk less about soccer than you think.  I know a player who has been on her full national team since she was 15 and she is more interested in her engineering degree than anything.  Her engineer father though will talk soccer with me all day.  The best players have amazingly balanced lives.  They go to concerts, care about social justice and grind it out in school.  I believe only three members of our current WNT don’t have college degrees and most have them from extremely prestigious universities.


So, the best players are all about social justice?
Why does the USWNT have everyone stand for the National Anthem? 
Why isn't kapernick playing in the NFL?

Most Americans don't agree with their issues.


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 1, 2019)

Sheriff Joe said:


> So, the best players are all about social justice?
> Why does the USWNT have everyone stand for the National Anthem?
> Why isn't kapernick playing in the NFL?
> 
> Most Americans don't agree with their issues.


You are a fool and I won’t turn this into a debate about your idiocy.  Small minds and small dicks can stay small.  How’s your player doing?


----------



## MacDre (May 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Have you seen Stanford, UCLA, Penn State or Florida State play?


I have.  My daughter was the youngest kid at the April 19 FSU ID camp (I would love to hear more about your dislike for FSU) I think all of the above mentioned teams attempt to play good possession based soccer.
However, I still think college soccer sucks and is not ideal for development because of the format.  First,  the season is too short with too many games.  Second, even if the above teams are trying to play possession based soccer they can still freely sub in players to avoid fatigue.  Third, I think one of the advantages of possession based soccer is the ability to wear out your opponent by “letting the ball do the work.”  Once your opponent is tired, you attack and beat that ass.  However, with college soccer being dominated by coaches like Anson Dorrance it prevents the above teams from wearing out their opponents and playing true possession soccer.  
So, I see the college game as having little to no benefit to someone aspiring to be world class.


----------



## Dos Equis (May 1, 2019)

Sheriff Joe said:


> So, the best players are all about social justice?
> Why does the USWNT have everyone stand for the National Anthem?
> Why isn't kapernick playing in the NFL?
> 
> Most Americans don't agree with their issues.


Given that the entire WNT has signed on to the lawsuit against US Soccer, I would say the evidence of their interest in social justice is firmly in MAP's corner.  I would also estimate they do not agree on every issue, hence why they likely have conversations.  

You need to let that one go --  most Americans have moved beyond it, including the orange man.


----------



## MacDre (May 1, 2019)

Sheriff Joe said:


> So, the best players are all about social justice?
> Why does the USWNT have everyone stand for the National Anthem?
> Why isn't kapernick playing in the NFL?
> 
> Most Americans don't agree with their issues.


Ignorant!


----------



## Dos Equis (May 1, 2019)

MacDre said:


> So, I see the college game as having little to no benefit to someone aspiring to be world class.


Given the large numbers of foreign national players finding their way onto top NCAA rosters over the past decade, either the "world" disagrees with your conclusion, or these players realize the best use of their soccer abilities is to secure a top education in order to expand their future opportunities in soccer and beyond.

I used to think NCAA Women's soccer pretty awful as well, mostly from watching segments of games on TV, and perhaps my own bias.   Then my children's interests resulted in me attending more games live, watching some training, getting to know their programming, and watching full games on TV.  Frankly, I see less creative soccer these days watching MLS teams.  And I will be generous and say NWSL needs our support, but the style and pace of play is less impressive than top NCAA games I have seen -- it feels like the games do not matter to the players.

The college season needs to change, even the coaches agree.  But until there is a credible better option, you are tearing down the best level of women's soccer (outside of full national team play in major tournaments, not crappy one-sided friendlies) without providing a better alternative.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> You are a fool and I won’t turn this into a debate about your idiocy.  Small minds and small dicks can stay small.  How’s your player doing?


My player is great thank you, how about yours?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 1, 2019)

Dos Equis said:


> Given that the entire WNT has signed on to the lawsuit against US Soccer, I would say the evidence of their interest in social justice is firmly in MAP's corner.  I would also estimate they do not agree on every issue, hence why they likely have conversations.
> 
> You need to let that one go --  most Americans have moved beyond it, including the orange man.


MAP brought it up for some reason, maybe he needs to let it go.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 1, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Ignorant!


That is a well thought out argument.


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 1, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I have.  My daughter was the youngest kid at the April 19 FSU ID camp (I would love to hear more about your dislike for FSU) I think all of the above mentioned teams attempt to play good possession based soccer.
> However, I still think college soccer sucks and is not ideal for development because of the format.  First,  the season is too short with too many games.  Second, even if the above teams are trying to play possession based soccer they can still freely sub in players to avoid fatigue.  Third, I think one of the advantages of possession based soccer is the ability to wear out your opponent by “letting the ball do the work.”  Once your opponent is tired, you attack and beat that ass.  However, with college soccer being dominated by coaches like Anson Dorrance it prevents the above teams from wearing out their opponents and playing true possession soccer.
> So, I see the college game as having little to no benefit to someone aspiring to be world class.


So you said two different things so let me address them both.  First, Florida State is an excellent soccer school and plays a better possession game than any NWSL team.  My beef with them has everything to do with the massive turnover which is directly related to the coach wanting athletes who are students and not student athletes.  From what I hear though he is pretty honest with his players about where they fit in and he helps them move on if that is their wish.  I have no problem with him it just isn’t what I would want for MY daughter.  My kid isn’t normal though and wants to change the actual world not necessarily the soccer world.  And just in case you were wondering one of my daughters good friends who is an ex teammate was a scholarship athlete there and started several games there as a freshman and left after her freshman year.

Regarding college soccer I agree that the length of the season isn’t ideal but you have to remember that we are talking about students not professionals.  If you do a little more digging and talk to more parents of players at the top schools you will find that outside of North Carolina the top teams play about 15-18 players at most and the subbing isn’t Willy nilly.  I can tell you that my player plays 90+ minutes a game unless she is hurt or it is a blowout so I don’t know why you think the subbing rules really matter for the top players because they aren’t coming out anyway.  And her team (and Stanford, Penn State and Florida State) crush teams in the second half of games as they wear down.  Also, as I am sure that you know, the main point of possession isn’t wearing a team down it is stretching and affecting their defensive shape so that the attacking team can take advantage of the overloads and mismatches.

I can only think of two Americans that are world class and didn’t play college soccer.  Now you may not be an American but if you are then your daughter going overseas out of high school  to play is always your prerogative.  My daughter had a teammate that chose that path and she has pretty much disappeared off all radars.  Playing in Europe for some bottom team in those leagues who s worse than playing for a top college.  My daughter’s roommate had offers to play overseas for decent money but she chose to pursue playing in college (against the wishes of her national team coach) and she has only continued to get better.  I would even argue that Pugh’s development has been hampered by not playing college.  When she was playing with my daughter she wasn’t the best player on the pitch by any stretch of the imagination.  She did have two really significant fan though (Jill and BJ).

The bottom line is you have to do what you feel is best for your kids situation.  However you are fooling yourself if you think that professional women’s soccer is on average any different than college women’s soccer.  The Lyon’s, Chelsea’s, PSG’s, Bayern’s and Barcelona’s aside because unless your player is already world class already those aren’t options.  The vast majority of players play for the obscure teams in Scandinavia or other leagues than play on those teams.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 1, 2019)

Sheriff Joe said:


> My player is great thank you, how about yours?


Great to hear!  She is fortunate to have people that love and support her unconditionally.  My player is happy, healthy and excited to graduate and excited to start her internship.  Thank you for asking.


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 1, 2019)

Sheriff Joe said:


> MAP brought it up for some reason, maybe he needs to let it go.


That two words is what you seized upon out of the many that I wrote?  You are the one that needs to let it go.  What human being is against social justice and what sane and non-racist thinks that our society is equal?  My mother had the national guard escort her to school when she was moved to one of the “newly” integrated schools in Georgia in the 60’s something that would never have happened had the fight for social justice not begun.  Everything that we have was built upon the backs of a thirst for social justice (think American Revolution, US Constitution).

You are either a racist or a fool.  Which is it?

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> That two words is what you seized upon out of the many that I wrote?  You are the one that needs to let it go.  What human being is against social justice and what sane and non-racist thinks that our society is equal?  My mother had the national guard escort her to school when she was moved to one of the “newly” integrated schools in Georgia in the 60’s something that would never have happened had the fight for social justice not begun.  Everything that we have was built upon the backs of a thirst for social justice (think American Revolution, US Constitution).
> 
> You are either a racist or a fool.  Which is it?
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


Who said I don't agree with some social justice issues? I know we have issues to deal with and I believe our country is making progress, it is the lies and race baiting that I have issues with.


----------



## MacDre (May 1, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> For females, the interpersonal aspect of soccer and the social relationships are very significant parts of the team.  Grown women have conversations about sex, drugs and alcohol, getting married, having children, financial pressures, buying a house, making big life decisions etc.  that is something a 13 year old is usually not talking about and doesn’t have any experiences to contribute or participate in the conversation.  So someone in that situation is just listening and not really getting all of it, or is being exposed to mature adult issues that she shouldn’t be or is just isolated from all of it and not in a position to developer the relationships with other teammates in a normal way.  Being 13 hanging out with adult women is different than being 16 or 17 hanging out with adult women.
> 
> Also, everyone is assuming that because this move has been made that she is of course that good.  As has been said on this thread, time will tell how this plays out.  If one is an impact player that will be seen in every environment where that player plays.  Not sure that is being demonstrated here.  There are many elite players in GDA and ECNL that are amazingly talented- the difference is the media campaign and the skillful marketing of parents to make a splashy presence.  Also, as I have said before- the end goal for females is significantly lower than for males-  Having an education and other career goals has a higher payout down the road than in women’s professional soccer.





Dos Equis said:


> Given the large numbers of foreign national players finding their way onto top NCAA rosters over the past decade, either the "world" disagrees with your conclusion, or these players realize the best use of their soccer abilities is to secure a top education in order to expand their future opportunities in soccer and beyond.
> 
> I used to think NCAA Women's soccer pretty awful as well, mostly from watching segments of games on TV, and perhaps my own bias.   Then my children's interests resulted in me attending more games live, watching some training, getting to know their programming, and watching full games on TV.  Frankly, I see less creative soccer these days watching MLS teams.  And I will be generous and say NWSL needs our support, but the style and pace of play is less impressive than top NCAA games I have seen -- it feels like the games do not matter to the players.
> 
> The college season needs to change, even the coaches agree.  But until there is a credible better option, you are tearing down the best level of women's soccer (outside of full national team play in major tournaments, not crappy one-sided friendlies) without providing a better alternative.


Thanks for your insight.  I think a reasonable solution would be to spread the season out over both semesters.


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 1, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Thanks for your insight.  I think a reasonable solution would be to spread the season out over both semesters.


You have to remember that they are students first.  My daughter and her boyfriend are both soccer players and they take heavy course loads in the winter and spring.  Imagine if the basketball or football season were spread over multiple terms (some schools are in n semesters some are in quarters).


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 1, 2019)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Who said I don't agree with some social justice issues? I know we have issues to deal with and I believe our country is making progress, it is the lies and race baiting that I have issues with.


It’s easy to call it race baiting when you are a white male in America.  Please spend some time in a brown country or even a brown neighborhood then we can talk about it.  Otherwise you are just another  clueless, white boy opening his mouth about shit he has no idea about.

I could debate this or the merits of zone blitzing in the red zone with you but if you have no idea about either it makes for a pointless debate.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MacDre (May 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> So you said two different things so let me address them both.  First, Florida State is an excellent soccer school and plays a better possession game than any NWSL team.  My beef with them has everything to do with the massive turnover which is directly related to the coach wanting athletes who are students and not student athletes.  From what I hear though he is pretty honest with his players about where they fit in and he helps them move on if that is their wish.  I have no problem with him it just isn’t what I would want for MY daughter.  My kid isn’t normal though and wants to change the actual world not necessarily the soccer world.  And just in case you were wondering one of my daughters good friends who is an ex teammate was a scholarship athlete there and started several games there as a freshman and left after her freshman year.
> 
> Regarding college soccer I agree that the length of the season isn’t ideal but you have to remember that we are talking about students not professionals.  If you do a little more digging and talk to more parents of players at the top schools you will find that outside of North Carolina the top teams play about 15-18 players at most and the subbing isn’t Willy nilly.  I can tell you that my player plays 90+ minutes a game unless she is hurt or it is a blowout so I don’t know why you think the subbing rules really matter for the top players because they aren’t coming out anyway.  And her team (and Stanford, Penn State and Florida State) crush teams in the second half of games as they wear down.  Also, as I am sure that you know, the main point of possession isn’t wearing a team down it is stretching and affecting their defensive shape so that the attacking team can take advantage of the overloads and mismatches.
> 
> ...


Wow!  Thanks for your insight and nuanced analysis.  Please let your daughter know when she starts law school I’ll be looking for her application to the Trial Lawyers College (TLC).


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> It’s easy to call it race baiting when you are a white male in America.  Please spend some time in a brown country or even a brown neighborhood then we can talk about it.  Otherwise you are just another  clueless, white boy opening his mouth about shit he has no idea about.
> 
> I could debate this or the merits of zone blitzing in the red zone with you but if you have no idea about either it makes for a pointless debate.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


You may have a point there.
Please leave my little dick alone, he already has self-esteem issues.


----------



## MacDre (May 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> You have to remember that they are students first.  My daughter and her boyfriend are both soccer players and they take heavy course loads in the winter and spring.  Imagine if the basketball or football season were spread over multiple terms (some schools are in n semesters some are in quarters).


I’m actually kinda on the fence on this issue.  I went through the UC system for undergrad and law school with plans of changing the world.  I made a lot of money but I was miserable.  My goal for my kid is to be happy.


----------



## MacDre (May 1, 2019)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Who said I don't agree with some social justice issues? I know we have issues to deal with and I believe our country is making progress, it is the lies and race baiting that I have issues with.


What lies? What race baiting?


----------



## MacDre (May 1, 2019)

Sheriff Joe said:


> You may have a point there.
> Please leave my little dick alone, he already has self-esteem issues.


I think he’s more of an Archie Bunker than a Sheriff Joe.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 1, 2019)

MacDre said:


> What lies? What race baiting?


I think this is how the movement really got going.

"*Hands up, don't shoot*", or simply "*hands up*", is a slogan and gesture that originated after the August 9, 2014 shooting of Michael Brown. The slogan was adopted at protests against police violence. Witness reports differed as to what Brown was doing with his hands when he was shot to death, with one claiming he had his hands in the air. That witness subsequently recanted his account. A United States Department of Justice investigation, under the leadership of U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, found this claim inconsistent with the physical and forensic evidence and witness testimony.[1]


----------



## beachbum (May 1, 2019)

Sheriff Joe said:


> So, the best players are all about social justice?
> Why does the USWNT have everyone stand for the National Anthem?
> Why isn't kapernick playing in the NFL?
> 
> Most Americans don't agree with their issues.


I believe MAP was just trying to say, the girls are not just about soccer but have many interests and have well rounded lives outside of soccer.  You chose to key on  a couple of words, so this one is on you.  If you want to have a discussion about social issues involved with sports make a new thread.


----------



## MacDre (May 1, 2019)

Are you scared for your life when you see the cops?  I am.
Has anyone in your family been castrated and lynched for dating a white girl (1992)?  My cousin did.
Have you ever experienced busing to integrate schools?  I have.
Has your school bus ever been turned around because skinheads’ were protesting blacks at your high school (1992 Port St. Lucie, FL)?  Mine has.
Have you ever attempted to go downtown with your grandma but couldn’t because the Klan was marching (Greensboro NC/Danville VA late 80’s early 90’s).  I have.
Have you had the cops called on you for going into your house because you look like you don’t belong.  I have and professor Skip Gates at Harvard.
Did you get called boy so much as a kid, that you thought boy was your nickname.  I did.

You gotta do better sheriff.  Any by the way, most African-Americans are biracial to varying degrees.  It’s just the “one drop rule” is still in full effect and we are not accepted.  Have you ever wondered why Obama was not considered a white man?  After all, he was raised by his white mother and grandma.  I would argue he is more culturally white than black because of his upbringing.  However he was “tainted” with African blood so, he can never be a part of your club.
It must be great to stick your head in the sand and reap the benefits of white male privilege.  
My hope for you is that your daughter falls in love with an African American man and that you have African American grandkids.  I bet you’d get it then.


----------



## outside! (May 1, 2019)

I knew there was a reason I had Sheriff on ignore.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 1, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Are you scared for your life when you see the cops?  I am.
> Has anyone in your family been castrated and lynched for dating a white girl (1992)?  My cousin did.
> Have you ever experienced busing to integrate schools?  I have.
> Has your school bus ever been turned around because skinheads’ were protesting blacks at your high school (1992 Port St. Lucie, FL)?  Mine has.
> ...


I am not here to put down or diminish anyone's struggle, but I think there is a right way to go about it and making up stories is not the way.
Like MAP said white boys can't identify and I am ok with that, but I can still have an opinion.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 1, 2019)

outside! said:


> I knew there was a reason I had Sheriff on ignore.


Stay in your safe space.


----------



## MacDre (May 1, 2019)

Sheriff Joe said:


> I am not here to put down or diminish anyone's struggle, but I think there is a right way to go about it and making up stories is not the way.
> Like MAP said white boys can't identify and I am ok with that, but I can still have an opinion.


White boys can identify if they want.  People like you choose ignorance because it’s to your benefit.  I’m asking you to acknowledge the problem and be a patriot and fight for equality and turn our great nation into a meritocracy.
I think you and others are upset about the “kneeling” because it forces you and others to see what you don’t want to see.
Oh yeah, since you don’t agree with kneeling, I’m all ears if you have a better solution.  I’m a veteran and I feel proud every time I see a young athlete kneel because it gives me hope that more privileged white males like you will understand and take action so that my kids and grandchildren aren’t subjected to the same bigotry that I was.
So, if you don’t like the kneeling, get off your ass and fight for equality and miss me with that lame ass game about what a white boy can’t understand.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 1, 2019)

MacDre said:


> White boys can identify if they want.  People like you choose ignorance because it’s to your benefit.  I’m asking you to acknowledge the problem and be a patriot and fight for equality and turn our great nation into a meritocracy.
> I think you and others are upset about the “kneeling” because it forces you and others to see what you don’t want to see.
> Oh yeah, since you don’t agree with kneeling, I’m all ears if you have a better solution.  I’m a veteran and I feel proud every time I see a young athlete kneel because it gives me hope that more privileged white males like you will understand and take action so that my kids and grandchildren aren’t subjected to the same bigotry that I was.
> So, if you don’t like the kneeling, get off your ass and fight for equality and miss me with that lame ass game about what a white boy can’t understand.


I hate to tell you, but most of America agrees with me on the kneeling.
Do you think our country isn't making progress on the racial divide?
What is your opinion on the smolette ordeal?


----------



## MacDre (May 1, 2019)

Sheriff Joe said:


> I hate to tell you, but most of America agrees with me on the kneeling.
> Do you think our country isn't making progress on the racial divide?
> What is your opinion on the smolette ordeal?


I hate to tell you most of America used to consider African Americans 3/5 of a person.  I hate to tell you most of America agreed with the implementation of the “black codes” after the abolition of slavery.  I hate to tell you most of America supported segregation etc. etc.  So, why are we talking about what the majority thinks when we are talking about the complaints of a disenfranchised minority group?  
I’m not talking about a racial divide because there is only one race and that is the human race.  However, I’m talking about equality for all.
I haven’t followed the Smolette ordeal but from the little that I’ve heard, I think he’s an idiot.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 1, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I hate to tell you most of America used to consider African Americans 3/5 of a person.  I hate to tell you most of America agreed with the implementation of the “black codes” after the abolition of slavery.  I hate to tell you most of America supported segregation etc. etc.  So, why are we talking about what the majority thinks when we are talking about the complaints of a disenfranchised minority group?
> I’m not talking about a racial divide because there is only one race and that is the human race.  However, I’m talking about equality for all.
> I haven’t followed the Smolette ordeal but from the little that I’ve heard, I think he’s an idiot.


Cool, so it looks we agree on quite a few issues, our country has issues but has made important progress on race.


----------



## full90 (May 1, 2019)

Back to OM. I played at a decently high level (Pac-12) and had some chances to go overseas after but was ready to hang it up. So my perspective is limited to that scope. As a sports fan and person who is interested in the process, I’m fascinated by her journey and how this will play out. 
She’s certainly extremely talented and motivated. 
All that to say: I’m glad it’s not my kid. 

I think if you have a kid at that level you have to let them shoot their shot. But it doesn’t seem like going pro gives her More than climbing the normal ladder. She could’ve stayed at beach, had friends who were peers and played up for national team and for DA. Is practices with thorns that helpful? Meh? Maybe. Could she have found an equally challenging environment in so cal. Um yep. Go train with Galaxy boys DA. Or LAFC. Is the pressure and limelight of being a pro worth the cost? Doesn’t seem like she’s getting much out of it other than being a unicorn. (I did read in an article she wrote to her younger self that she doesn’t eat junk food or ever sit on the couch and chill. She otherwise seems like a great kid. But that’s crazy. Parents where are you? I’m into health and fitness and all that but that’s nuts. It’s a long way to 20 living like that. And for what? An ice cream run and a Sunday afternoon binging marvel movies won’t derail your career. If they aren’t teaching her that I think that’s insane). 

Who knows. It’s a roll of the dice. And I’m glad it’s not my daughter.


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 2, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I hate to tell you most of America used to consider African Americans 3/5 of a person.  I hate to tell you most of America agreed with the implementation of the “black codes” after the abolition of slavery.  I hate to tell you most of America supported segregation etc. etc.  So, why are we talking about what the majority thinks when we are talking about the complaints of a disenfranchised minority group?
> I’m not talking about a racial divide because there is only one race and that is the human race.  However, I’m talking about equality for all.
> I haven’t followed the Smolette ordeal but from the little that I’ve heard, I think he’s an idiot.


@MacDre I am following you now.  Keep on educating the dull, preaching the sermon and fighting the fight!

Continued good fortune to you and your family!


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 2, 2019)

full90 said:


> Back to OM. I played at a decently high level (Pac-12) and had some chances to go overseas after but was ready to hang it up. So my perspective is limited to that scope. As a sports fan and person who is interested in the process, I’m fascinated by her journey and how this will play out.
> She’s certainly extremely talented and motivated.
> All that to say: I’m glad it’s not my kid.
> 
> ...


You just gave me a Todd Marinovich flashback...  God I hope that she doesn’t end up like he did....


----------



## Chalklines (May 12, 2019)




----------



## Soccer43 (May 12, 2019)

Chalklines said:


>


So, I am confused.  Did all of those females athletes turn pro also?  Are they all getting that 6 figure contract?  There sure are a lot of youth athletes in that commercial.


----------



## timbuck (May 12, 2019)

I saw some clips of OM training on Instagram the other day.  Damn, that kid has some skill. 
I thought I knew some pretty legit 13 year olds, but nothing like the video clips I saw.  
I’ve stated before that this pressure on a kid might not be the best, but she is super talented and this might be the right move for her.


----------



## espola (May 12, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> So, I am confused.  Did all of those females athletes turn pro also?  Are they all getting that 6 figure contract?  There sure are a lot of youth athletes in that commercial.


Getting paid for appearing in a commercial is not what most young soccer players think of when hearing the phrase "turning pro".


----------



## espola (May 12, 2019)

timbuck said:


> I saw some clips of OM training on Instagram the other day.  Damn, that kid has some skill.
> I thought I knew some pretty legit 13 year olds, but nothing like the video clips I saw.
> I’ve stated before that this pressure on a kid might not be the best, but she is super talented and this might be the right move for her.


Do you have links to any video clips of her in a game?


----------



## timbuck (May 12, 2019)

espola said:


> Do you have links to any video clips of her in a game?


I’d like to see some.  I assume that teams scheme to play against her. And if she can’t beat the double/triple team or constant fouling (I assume this happens) I hope she is laying it off to teammates and keeps moving off of the ball to stay involved.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 12, 2019)

Links of her playing in the U15 YNT game has been posted on this thread a few pages back - having great technical skills on an empty field with cones is not the same as being effective in a high pressure game-


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (May 12, 2019)

MacDre said:


> White boys can identify if they want.  People like you choose ignorance because it’s to your benefit.  I’m asking you to acknowledge the problem and be a patriot and fight for equality and turn our great nation into a meritocracy.
> I think you and others are upset about the “kneeling” because it forces you and others to see what you don’t want to see.
> Oh yeah, since you don’t agree with kneeling, I’m all ears if you have a better solution.  I’m a veteran and I feel proud every time I see a young athlete kneel because it gives me hope that more privileged white males like you will understand and take action so that my kids and grandchildren aren’t subjected to the same bigotry that I was.
> So, if you don’t like the kneeling, get off your ass and fight for equality and miss me with that lame ass game about what a white boy can’t understand.


I've read your posts and agree with most of what you wrote, but I have two questions for you.  1.  In 2019, what is the African-American community doing to squash the reality that hip hop and rap music glorify a thug culture?  Because as I try to 'educate' myself on what it's like to live in your world in 2019, and not 1919, I find it a bit hypocritical that drugs, cash, strippers and guns are omnipresent in every single video and song.  2.  In 2019, why does the African-American community continue to support black criminals that were shot and killed by police when A)  They were criminals their entire lives and B)  They refused to comply with police and died because of it.  I also find it hypocritical that a kneeling Colin Kaepernick, having grown up in a moderately affluent, white household in a very diverse community, and a star athlete before his teen years, did nothing to support the black community or use his voice against racism, until he was benched.  As he was on the Super Bowl podium, when his voice was the loudest, I saw him kiss his biceps.  When he lost his job, he became a victim.  And I found nothing indicating he did anything for anybody, but himself, prior to getting benched.  I hope I'm wrong... I'd like to think his cause is sincere, but I don't see it.  So when African-American people and BLM kneel for people like Alton Sterling, Terence Crutcher, Eric Garner, etc, all of whom were career criminals that refused to comply with police, rather than go to jail, I think the "privilege" of being treated like a human being disappears (as a message) to people that you want or need to hear it.  Personally, I think these three things have done more to set back true victims than anything positive that would facilitate change.

Curious to know what your thoughts are on this.


----------



## Glen (May 12, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> I've read your posts and agree with most of what you wrote, but I have two questions for you.  1.  In 2019, what is the African-American community doing to squash the reality that hip hop and rap music glorify a thug culture?  Because as I try to 'educate' myself on what it's like to live in your world in 2019, and not 1919, I find it a bit hypocritical that drugs, cash, strippers and guns are omnipresent in every single video and song.  2.  In 2019, why does the African-American community continue to support black criminals that were shot and killed by police when A)  They were criminals their entire lives and B)  They refused to comply with police and died because of it.  I also find it hypocritical that a kneeling Colin Kaepernick, having grown up in a moderately affluent, white household in a very diverse community, and a star athlete before his teen years, did nothing to support the black community or use his voice against racism, until he was benched.  As he was on the Super Bowl podium, when his voice was the loudest, I saw him kiss his biceps.  When he lost his job, he became a victim.  And I found nothing indicating he did anything for anybody, but himself, prior to getting benched.  I hope I'm wrong... I'd like to think his cause is sincere, but I don't see it.  So when African-American people and BLM kneel for people like Alton Sterling, Terence Crutcher, Eric Garner, etc, all of whom were career criminals that refused to comply with police, rather than go to jail, I think the "privilege" of being treated like a human being disappears (as a message) to people that you want or need to hear it.  Personally, I think these three things have done more to set back true victims than anything positive that would facilitate change.
> 
> Curious to know what your thoughts are on this.


Is this from the Onion?


----------



## Chalklines (May 12, 2019)

whos the player in the surf jersey at the end of the new nike video?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (May 12, 2019)

Glen said:


> Is this from the Onion?


Which part felt satirical to you?


----------



## dk_b (May 13, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> So, I am confused.  Did all of those females athletes turn pro also?  Are they all getting that 6 figure contract?  There sure are a lot of youth athletes in that commercial.


Or are they just actors other than the athletes who are identifiable?


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 13, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> I've read your posts and agree with most of what you wrote, but I have two questions for you.  1.  In 2019, what is the African-American community doing to squash the reality that hip hop and rap music glorify a thug culture?  Because as I try to 'educate' myself on what it's like to live in your world in 2019, and not 1919, I find it a bit hypocritical that drugs, cash, strippers and guns are omnipresent in every single video and song.  2.  In 2019, why does the African-American community continue to support black criminals that were shot and killed by police when A)  They were criminals their entire lives and B)  They refused to comply with police and died because of it.  I also find it hypocritical that a kneeling Colin Kaepernick, having grown up in a moderately affluent, white household in a very diverse community, and a star athlete before his teen years, did nothing to support the black community or use his voice against racism, until he was benched.  As he was on the Super Bowl podium, when his voice was the loudest, I saw him kiss his biceps.  When he lost his job, he became a victim.  And I found nothing indicating he did anything for anybody, but himself, prior to getting benched.  I hope I'm wrong... I'd like to think his cause is sincere, but I don't see it.  So when African-American people and BLM kneel for people like Alton Sterling, Terence Crutcher, Eric Garner, etc, all of whom were career criminals that refused to comply with police, rather than go to jail, I think the "privilege" of being treated like a human being disappears (as a message) to people that you want or need to hear it.  Personally, I think these three things have done more to set back true victims than anything positive that would facilitate change.
> 
> Curious to know what your thoughts are on this.


So people deserve to die for selling cigarettes on the corner?  Maybe kids should be beat to death for having a lemonade stand too.  This post is disgusting and reeks of ignorance.  Have you really watched a rap video recently?  I don’t see the drug culture that you are referring to.

Sickening is all that I can say.  Membership sure has it’s privileges...


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (May 13, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> So people deserve to die for selling cigarettes on the corner?  Maybe kids should be beat to death for having a lemonade stand too.  This post is disgusting and reeks of ignorance.  Have you really watched a rap video recently?  I don’t see the drug culture that you are referring to.
> 
> Sickening is all that I can say.  Membership sure has it’s privileges...



No, they shouldn't die.  They should comply with police, be arrested when caught breaking the law, and be treated in a civil manner.  Seems to me that would go a long way in weeding out dirty cops as we know they exist.  I guess asking people to stop selling illegal cigarettes, when you've been arrested for things like grand larceny, assault, resisting arrest, false impersonation, weed and driving without a license, *over 30 times*, you might try going legit at some point.  Or maybe, if you're severely overweight and suffering from a serious medical condition your daughter also died from years later, you shouldn't keep pushing cop's hands away and force a physical altercation. 

Yes... MAP... I have have seen recent videos.  Smoking weed, flashing cash and pointing guns at the camera, etc.  Are we going to deny RAP and hip hop don't glorify that lifestyle?


----------



## espola (May 13, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> No, they shouldn't die.  They should comply with police, be arrested when caught breaking the law, and be treated in a civil manner.  Seems to me that would go a long way in weeding out dirty cops as we know they exist.  I guess asking people to stop selling illegal cigarettes, when you've been arrested for things like grand larceny, assault, resisting arrest, false impersonation, weed and driving without a license, *over 30 times*, you might try going legit at some point.  Or maybe, if you're severely overweight and suffering from a serious medical condition your daughter also died from years later, you shouldn't keep pushing cop's hands away and force a physical altercation.
> 
> Yes... MAP... I have have seen recent videos.  Smoking weed, flashing cash and pointing guns at the camera, etc.  Are we going to deny RAP and hip hop don't glorify that lifestyle?


Which of those crimes deserves a death sentence?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (May 13, 2019)

espola said:


> Which of those crimes deserves a death sentence?


Who said "deserves" ?


----------



## MacDre (May 13, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> I've read your posts and agree with most of what you wrote, but I have two questions for you.  1.  In 2019, what is the African-American community doing to squash the reality that hip hop and rap music glorify a thug culture?  Because as I try to 'educate' myself on what it's like to live in your world in 2019, and not 1919, I find it a bit hypocritical that drugs, cash, strippers and guns are omnipresent in every single video and song.  2.  In 2019, why does the African-American community continue to support black criminals that were shot and killed by police when A)  They were criminals their entire lives and B)  They refused to comply with police and died because of it.  I also find it hypocritical that a kneeling Colin Kaepernick, having grown up in a moderately affluent, white household in a very diverse community, and a star athlete before his teen years, did nothing to support the black community or use his voice against racism, until he was benched.  As he was on the Super Bowl podium, when his voice was the loudest, I saw him kiss his biceps.  When he lost his job, he became a victim.  And I found nothing indicating he did anything for anybody, but himself, prior to getting benched.  I hope I'm wrong... I'd like to think his cause is sincere, but I don't see it.  So when African-American people and BLM kneel for people like Alton Sterling, Terence Crutcher, Eric Garner, etc, all of whom were career criminals that refused to comply with police, rather than go to jail, I think the "privilege" of being treated like a human being disappears (as a message) to people that you want or need to hear it.  Personally, I think these three things have done more to set back true victims than anything positive that would facilitate change.
> 
> Curious to know what your thoughts are on this.


What’s good outlaw?  First, I want to be clear that I don’t speak for the entire African American community.  I also want to be clear the things I mentioned in my earlier post did not happen in 1919–I’m only 42 years old.

In terms of how you feel about Rap music, are you aware that white folks felt the same way about jazz and rock & roll in the past?  Rap/Hip-Hop are the voice of the disenfranchised youth and should not be silenced.  In terms of civil rights and equality jazz, rock & roll, rap/hip-hop have been instrumental in enlisting white folks to help fight for equality.  Outlaw, did you know that suburban white kids are the number consumers of rap/hip-hop?  Outlaw, are you aware that if you go to a rap/hip-hop concert you will see mostly suburban white kids?
Rap music was created by my generation because we rejected rock & roll.  We rejected rock & roll because Elvis said “all a nigger could do was buy his records and shine his shoes” after learning rock & roll from the African-American community.  Outlaw, what are white folks doing in regards to how sex, drugs, and cash are promoted by rock stars?

As much as things change, they still remain the same.  I do not believe that slavery ever ended in USA.  I think slavery evolved.  After the abolition of slavery there was the implementation of the black codes, segregation, COINTELPRO, war on drugs, and privatization of prisons.
So, when African Americans hear about about a young man with an extensive criminal record I think we tend to not give it much weight because we know that there is an inequitable administration of the law.  We also know that African American men a disproportionately represented prisons and a demonized because prisoners are the only legal form of slavery.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (May 13, 2019)

That's fine, MacDre, and we can disagree on some points.  I respect your opinion and don't post my thoughts for the sake of trivializing the realities of this country or being argumentative... but more to offer some discussion on what can be done on everyone's part.  When Charles Kinsey is shot trying to prevent police from killing a mentally ill man on the ground, I say "that's some bullshit".  Fortunately, Mr. Kinsey is alive and the officer was dealt with.  Hopefully Mr. Kinsey received a nice settlement package.  Compare that to MAP's example, Eric Garner, and I see an entirely different situation.  And in full disclosure, I privately messaged MAP, sometime ago, to ask for some soccer advice and he was articulate, sincere and generous with his time.  He might not be a second time, but he was before!  So I respect him, as well, but don't agree on what happened in that case.  Eric Garner wasn't a black man committing a crime and brutally arrested for it like an animal... he was a habitual, violent criminal that happened to be black and refused to be arrested like a man.  I think there's a big difference.  Sex, drugs and rock-n-roll goes hand in hand... black, white, whomever, but when I see videos of masks and high powered weaponry... it's a different situation.  Elvis may well have been a racist asshole, but I don't remember him glorifying violence and murder.  I think it promotes more, negative imagery and I don't know why it's tolerated and promoted... aside from the $$$.

My main message is THIS... when you defend a criminal that clearly had no respect for laws or law enforcement, nor the amount of chances he received (to even BE selling illegal cigarettes on the street), that 'Charles Kinsey message' of negligent policing now falls upon deaf ears because (I believe) the majority of people base support on actions and not color.  So when you defend Mr. Garner, you lose my support as a "white boy".  Perhaps I'm not being realistic, but I do research these cases to educate myself.  That is not a "white boy choosing ignorance"; that's a white boy trying to understand what is reasonable police action and what isn't.  I have little or no sympathy to lifelong criminals who choose to refuse compliance when confronted by police.  Skin color isn't relevant for me.  If we're to make change and vet dirty cops and dirty cop practices, the first thing we must do is remove the excuses handed to them on a platter.


----------



## espola (May 13, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> That's fine, MacDre, and we can disagree on some points.  I respect your opinion and don't post my thoughts for the sake of trivializing the realities of this country or being argumentative... but more to offer some discussion on what can be done on everyone's part.  When Charles Kinsey is shot trying to prevent police from killing a mentally ill man on the ground, I say "that's some bullshit".  Fortunately, Mr. Kinsey is alive and the officer was dealt with.  Hopefully Mr. Kinsey received a nice settlement package.  Compare that to MAP's example, Eric Garner, and I see an entirely different situation.  And in full disclosure, I privately messaged MAP, sometime ago, to ask for some soccer advice and he was articulate, sincere and generous with his time.  He might not be a second time, but he was before!  So I respect him, as well, but don't agree on what happened in that case.  Eric Garner wasn't a black man committing a crime and brutally arrested for it like an animal... he was a habitual, violent criminal that happened to be black and refused to be arrested like a man.  I think there's a big difference.  Sex, drugs and rock-n-roll goes hand in hand... black, white, whomever, but when I see videos of masks and high powered weaponry... it's a different situation.  Elvis may well have been a racist asshole, but I don't remember him glorifying violence and murder.  I think it promotes more, negative imagery and I don't know why it's tolerated and promoted... aside from the $$$.
> 
> My main message is THIS... when you defend a criminal that clearly had no respect for laws or law enforcement, nor the amount of chances he received (to even BE selling illegal cigarettes on the street), that 'Charles Kinsey message' of negligent policing now falls upon deaf ears because (I believe) the majority of people base support on actions and not color.  So when you defend Mr. Garner, you lose my support as a "white boy".  Perhaps I'm not being realistic, but I do research these cases to educate myself.  That is not a "white boy choosing ignorance"; that's a white boy trying to understand what is reasonable police action and what isn't.  I have little or no sympathy to lifelong criminals who choose to refuse compliance when confronted by police.  Skin color isn't relevant for me.  If we're to make change and vet dirty cops and dirty cop practices, the first thing we must do is remove the excuses handed to them on a platter.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 13, 2019)

Are we still talking about 13 year old’s going pro?


----------



## Glen (May 13, 2019)

espola said:


>


----------



## outside! (May 13, 2019)

espola said:


>


----------



## espola (May 13, 2019)

Glen said:


>


I believe that was from his album recorded at Folsom Prison.


----------



## Dos Equis (May 13, 2019)

MacDre said:


> We rejected rock & roll because Elvis said “all a nigger could do was buy his records and shine his shoes” after learning rock & roll from the African-American community.


While I respect your perspective in this debate, you have gone too far by insulting Elvis.  None other than B.B. King said about Elvis "With Elvis, there was not a single drop of racism in that man. And when I say that, believe me I should know."  

I cannot vouch every word out of Elvis's mouth was acceptable based on today's norms, but most of his contemporaries would agree that the concept of Elvis being a racist is an ironic myth . I am sure the modern SJW would accuse him of cultural appropriation, while these same contemporaries would tell you his interpretations and commitment to soul, gospel, blues and country helped open doors for minority musicians.  

Being dubbed the "King of Rock & Roll" may have made Elvis famous and rich, but he frowned upon the characterization of his music that way.   Reject Rock & Roll because of what the big hair bands did to it in the 80's, not the Elvis was a racist myth.


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 13, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> No, they shouldn't die.  They should comply with police, be arrested when caught breaking the law, and be treated in a civil manner.  Seems to me that would go a long way in weeding out dirty cops as we know they exist.  I guess asking people to stop selling illegal cigarettes, when you've been arrested for things like grand larceny, assault, resisting arrest, false impersonation, weed and driving without a license, *over 30 times*, you might try going legit at some point.  Or maybe, if you're severely overweight and suffering from a serious medical condition your daughter also died from years later, you shouldn't keep pushing cop's hands away and force a physical altercation.
> 
> Yes... MAP... I have have seen recent videos.  Smoking weed, flashing cash and pointing guns at the camera, etc.  Are we going to deny RAP and hip hop don't glorify that lifestyle?


Did you really say smoking weed?  There are dispensaries in every western state except maybe Arizona.  You have to try better than that to hide your ambivalence and racism.  There is soooooo much wrong with your post that I am going to just hope that you go back to your whiteboy castle on the hill and just let us plebs and coloreds stay in our place and obey Mista Charlie.

Is that okay Masta Sir?


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 13, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> No, they shouldn't die.  They should comply with police, be arrested when caught breaking the law, and be treated in a civil manner.  Seems to me that would go a long way in weeding out dirty cops as we know they exist.  I guess asking people to stop selling illegal cigarettes, when you've been arrested for things like grand larceny, assault, resisting arrest, false impersonation, weed and driving without a license, *over 30 times*, you might try going legit at some point.  Or maybe, if you're severely overweight and suffering from a serious medical condition your daughter also died from years later, you shouldn't keep pushing cop's hands away and force a physical altercation.
> 
> Yes... MAP... I have have seen recent videos.  Smoking weed, flashing cash and pointing guns at the camera, etc.  Are we going to deny RAP and hip hop don't glorify that lifestyle?


Damn did you say driving without a license?  You fail to understand the disparities in the application of the law when the subject is white and when the subject is non-white.  Please spend some significant time in a situation where you are 13% or less of the population then give me your opinions.  Until then your opinion means less than nothing.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 13, 2019)

I blame this all on Obama and of course the racist MAGA hat.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (May 13, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Damn did you say driving without a license?  You fail to understand the disparities in the application of the law when the subject is white and when the subject is non-white.  Please spend some significant time in a situation where you are 13% or less of the population then give me your opinions.  Until then your opinion means less than nothing.


Good thing you didn't cherry pick "smoking weed" and "driving without" a license.  For a second there, I thought you might acknowledge the "over 30 arrests for grand larceny, resisting arrest, false impersonation and assault."

You're right... poor man was a saint.  I guess those are black crimes and not white crimes.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 13, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> Good thing you didn't cherry pick "smoking weed" and "driving without" a license.  For a second there, I thought you might acknowledge the "over 30 arrests for grand larceny, resisting arrest, false impersonation and assault."
> 
> You're right... poor man was a saint.  I guess those are black crimes and not white crimes.


These kids are being raised to hate cops, how could Dr Dre and MAPs kids respect police when this  BS is all they here at home?

Personal responsibility.
Listen to the police and do what they say.
I know I have told my white kids that.


----------



## outside! (May 13, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> Good thing you didn't cherry pick "smoking weed" and "driving without" a license.  For a second there, I thought you might acknowledge the "over 30 arrests for grand larceny, resisting arrest, false impersonation and assault."
> 
> You're right... poor man was a saint.  I guess those are black crimes and not white crimes.


There are a lot of racist cops. There are also a lot of good police officers. Unfortunately the two do not seem to mix often enough. People of color tend to use illegal drugs at a slightly lower rate than whites. You would not be able to tell that by looking at the people in prison for drug crimes.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 13, 2019)

outside! said:


> There are a lot of racist cops. There are also a lot of good police officers. Unfortunately the two do not seem to mix often enough. People of color tend to use illegal drugs at a slightly lower rate than whites. You would not be able to tell that by looking at the people in prison for drug crimes.


Fake News.


----------



## full90 (May 13, 2019)

As a white dude I can honestly say outlaw you are on the wrong side here. Of course we’d hope for any person on a pedestal to not push drugs and violence and hating police. BUT we have to lay the same amount of culpability on our society that created that reality for some people. We abolished slavery and then made loitering a crime. We didn’t give home loans or allow black home ownership in huge swaths of society. We didn’t give jobs or education to black people and kids. For decades. Then we scratch our heads and wonder why they are just so upset. And pontificate on here about “how if they would just keep their noses clean and listen to cops all would be well.”
 Would it? Philando Castile was killed 90 seconds after being stopped. If “freeze put your hands up don’t move keep your hands where I can see them” is one sentence what do you do? 

And I’ve walked into stores with black friends and had them stopped by security/followed/ asked to put their bag at the counter. Black friends who make more than I do by the way. 

It’s not as simple as following police orders when they are shooting 90 seconds into the interaction. 

And again society has pinned the black people down into the dirt with one hand for decades and then used the other hand to gesture wildly to one another about how the black man just can’t seem to get his act together. 

If you are so upset about folks complaining about police brutality take that passion right down to your local police department and ask them what they are doing to better train their officers. Or head on over to the local inner city high school and volunteer your time and money to enable those kids to have the same opportunities like the suburban kids.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (May 13, 2019)

1.  Philando Castile was rumored to be a crip gang member.  He carried a gun... it wasn't for white people or cops.
2.  Philando was told, 3 times, to not reach for his gun.  I would not have shot that quickly... but none of us were there.
3.  Philando's girlfriend proved to be a thug... and Philando, himself, had little to no respect for basic laws.  That's documented.  If you don't pay your registration tags, you don't have insurance, you continue to drive on a suspended license, over and over again, as in nearly 50 times, you're going to have problems.  Who do we blame for that?  Cops?  Do traffic laws only apply to certain people?

I think the people who need better training are those who refuse to drop the gun, attempt to drive over police officers in an effort to get away, or will not drop the knife despite being warned 20 times... and that goes for everyone.  I don't have any sympathy for violent, habitual criminals who become martyrs because they backed police into a corner.  For me, that detracts from real victims.  I don't need to donate my money to kids of less opportunity.  That isn't going to make them respect the laws and rights of others.


----------



## timbuck (May 13, 2019)

What in the hell happened to this thread?


----------



## wc_baller (May 14, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> 1.  Philando Castile was rumored to be a crip gang member.  He carried a gun... it wasn't for white people or cops.
> 2.  Philando was told, 3 times, to not reach for his gun.  I would not have shot that quickly... but none of us were there.
> 3.  Philando's girlfriend proved to be a thug... and Philando, himself, had little to no respect for basic laws.  That's documented.  If you don't pay your registration tags, you don't have insurance, you continue to drive on a suspended license, over and over again, as in nearly 50 times, you're going to have problems.  Who do we blame for that?  Cops?  Do traffic laws only apply to certain people?
> 
> I think the people who need better training are those who refuse to drop the gun, attempt to drive over police officers in an effort to get away, or will not drop the knife despite being warned 20 times... and that goes for everyone.  I don't have any sympathy for violent, habitual criminals who become martyrs because they backed police into a corner.  For me, that detracts from real victims.  I don't need to donate my money to kids of less opportunity.  That isn't going to make them respect the laws and rights of others.


This post illustrates exactly why people are kneeling, and why people of color are scared cops. A bunch of excuses for murder by police. Glad you’re not a cop.  People are protesting people like you who do wear that blue uniform.


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 14, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> 1.  Philando Castile was rumored to be a crip gang member.  He carried a gun... it wasn't for white people or cops.
> 2.  Philando was told, 3 times, to not reach for his gun.  I would not have shot that quickly... but none of us were there.
> 3.  Philando's girlfriend proved to be a thug... and Philando, himself, had little to no respect for basic laws.  That's documented.  If you don't pay your registration tags, you don't have insurance, you continue to drive on a suspended license, over and over again, as in nearly 50 times, you're going to have problems.  Who do we blame for that?  Cops?  Do traffic laws only apply to certain people?
> 
> I think the people who need better training are those who refuse to drop the gun, attempt to drive over police officers in an effort to get away, or will not drop the knife despite being warned 20 times... and that goes for everyone.  I don't have any sympathy for violent, habitual criminals who become martyrs because they backed police into a corner.  For me, that detracts from real victims.  I don't need to donate my money to kids of less opportunity.  That isn't going to make them respect the laws and rights of others.


This post makes me weep.  My law abiding, excellent grade having, half-white daughter who’s boyfriend is half Hispanic and from La Jolla has experienced racism from those in authority and you just can’t see past your own narrow experience because you “read about it.” One of my best friends is a police lieutenant and a woman of color and she has experienced harassment from other law enforcement officers throughout her career.  She will be the first to tell you that the prevalence of police misdeeds is much higher than reported.


----------



## Threeyardsback (May 14, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Are we still talking about 13 year old’s going pro?


 Yeah...No


----------



## espola (May 14, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> This post makes me weep.  My law abiding, excellent grade having, half-white daughter who’s boyfriend is half Hispanic and from La Jolla has experienced racism from those in authority and you just can’t see past your own narrow experience because you “read about it.” One of my best friends is a police lieutenant and a woman of color and she has experienced harassment from other law enforcement officers throughout her career.  She will be the first to tell you that the prevalence of police misdeeds is much higher than reported.


My wife is Filipina.  Her sister's high school boyfriend (a Filipino) was hassled by police as he was cleaning out his car after a night out on a date.  The treatment ended when a neighbor (an Asian SDPD officer) came out and vouched for him.  This happened in Mira Mesa, a neighborhood known in San Diego for its relatively high population of Asians, especially Filipino and Vietnamese.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (May 14, 2019)

Yeah, we all have our stories of bad cops and racism.  Unfortunately, that has nothing to do with sympathizing with real criminals.  Violent criminals.  Criminals that made a career out of victimizing innocent people... which was my original point.  If you want to make martyrs out of them, have at it.  I have sympathy for real victims... not professional thugs that lost a fight with cops.

That's it for me on this subject.


----------



## full90 (May 14, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> 1.  Philando Castile was rumored to be a crip gang member.  He carried a gun... it wasn't for white people or cops.
> 2.  Philando was told, 3 times, to not reach for his gun.  I would not have shot that quickly... but none of us were there.
> 3.  Philando's girlfriend proved to be a thug... and Philando, himself, had little to no respect for basic laws.  That's documented.  If you don't pay your registration tags, you don't have insurance, you continue to drive on a suspended license, over and over again, as in nearly 50 times, you're going to have problems.  Who do we blame for that?  Cops?  Do traffic laws only apply to certain people?
> 
> I think the people who need better training are those who refuse to drop the gun, attempt to drive over police officers in an effort to get away, or will not drop the knife despite being warned 20 times... and that goes for everyone.  I don't have any sympathy for violent, habitual criminals who become martyrs because they backed police into a corner.  For me, that detracts from real victims.  I don't need to donate my money to kids of less opportunity.  That isn't going to make them respect the laws and rights of others.



Um nope nope nope nope. 

He was compliant. The officer had a history of volatile behavior.  Ok fine. Bad situation. BUT HE WAS ACQUITTED!!! That's the issue. Bad cops happen. But there is no justice. That's why the kneeling is happening. That's the outrage. It's one more symptom of a larger problem. Bad people are everywhere. Ok. fine. But our justice system isn't giving justice to those wronged by the bad people. 

You might need to read up on this situation: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/us/video-police-shooting-philando-castile-trial.html


----------



## Kicker4Life (May 14, 2019)

Shall we start a new thread to further vet the racial inequalities so we can get back to debating about a 13yr old girl going pro?

Not sure whether to laugh or cry about the statement above.....smh


----------



## outside! (May 14, 2019)

timbuck said:


> What in the hell happened to this thread?


Sorry, fed the trolls. Wonder if they are Russian? There is a reason for the off-topics sub forum (that I never go in).


----------



## focomoso (May 15, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> why does the African-American community continue to support black criminals that were shot and killed by police when A)  They were criminals their entire lives and B)  They refused to comply with police and died because of it.


Because... if a white person does the exact same thing, they are less likely to get shot or killed. A white "thug" is also less likely be confronted by the police in the first place because they are less likely to be assumed to be doing wrong. If you pull over every black man in the country, you're going to find more black criminals. If whites were confronted by police at the same rates as blacks, they would be filling the prisons as well.


----------



## messy (May 15, 2019)

focomoso said:


> Because... if a white person does the exact same thing, they are less likely to get shot or killed. A white "thug" is also less likely be confronted by the police in the first place because they are less likely to be assumed to be doing wrong. If you pull over every black man in the country, you're going to find more black criminals. If whites were confronted by police at the same rates as blacks, they would be filling the prisons as well.


And that, Mr. Focomoso, is a truth so obvious it’s sad you have to explain it.


----------



## Blank95661 (May 15, 2019)

What the hell has this Soccer Blog turned into?  Go to FoxNews if you want to complain and talk about race issues.  What the F*ck is wrong with our country nowadays to hijack a soccer blog and turn it into this.


----------



## sdb (May 15, 2019)




----------



## espola (May 15, 2019)

timbuck said:


> What in the hell happened to this thread?


The real news about a 13-year-old girl giving up any chance at amateur or college soccer so her parents could stroke their egos was over in a week.  This thread then became a dump for people with axes to grind.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 16, 2019)

LOL! Love the RIP picture.   So how is this Olivia Moultrie  doing so far this season at the pro level?   I am wondering if other youth players will follow.  I believe the salaries are close to $19k for the women's league so not sure why one would want to go pro other than love for the game.


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 16, 2019)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> LOL! Love the RIP picture.   So how is this Olivia Moultrie  doing so far this season at the pro level?   I am wondering if other youth players will follow.  I believe the salaries are close to $19k for the women's league so not sure why one would want to go pro other than love for the game.


She isn’t a pro.  She got money to appear in a commercial.  At this point she couldn’t even compete at the D1 level.  This is all a marketing ploy by Nike that is pretty much a Hail Mary.  If she succeeds then great they get some publicity.  If not they didn’t invest much and they generated some buzz.

I hope that she succeeds.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 16, 2019)

She is playing in the DA with the Portland Thorns U16/17 team.  I would think she would at least want to try her hand in the WPSL this season - they don’t have an age restriction as I know 15 and 16 year olds that have been rostered.  It is unfortunate that she gave up her college scholarship and left so Cal to play on a lower ranked team in the DA.  Not sure that provides a better training atmosphere than Beach in the Southwest division


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 16, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> She is playing in the DA with the Portland Thorns U16/17 team.  I would think she would at least want to try her hand in the WPSL this season - they don’t have an age restriction as I know 15 and 16 year olds that have been rostered.  It is unfortunate that she gave up her college scholarship and left so Cal to play on a lower ranked team in the DA.  Not sure that provides a better training atmosphere than Beach in the Southwest division


Marketing.  Beach has some excellent coaches so it is definitely confusing.  It will really suck for her if LAFC gets an NWSL team.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 16, 2019)

Yes, every parent has to guide their child in the way they think is best but for mine, I would never have chosen this path


----------



## espola (May 16, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Yes, every parent has to guide their child in the way they think is best but for mine, I would never have chosen this path


They had enough money to build a practice field in their back yard and hire an every-day personal coach, so what was left?

I hope for the girl's sake that they didn't just do this for publicity to boost their home-based business.


----------



## oh canada (May 16, 2019)

13yr old is old news...i don't care nor need to follow her month to month progress.  Nike will guarantee she gets a shot at the USWNT, even if not deserved by her play.  That book is already written.  Frankly, the kids I know would never consider a home-schooled girl with a private coach on salary since 6yrs old, a $100K practice field in her yard, and parents who promote/manage her full-time, an inspiring role model.  Crystal Dunn/Carli Lloyd she is not.

As for the other topic in this thread.  Despite the awful history of how it became so, USA now at least deserves credit for being the Diversity Experiment of the World.  No other country on this planet (Canada not even close) has such a diverse group of citizens (and non-citizens) living together and progressing together.  And, I do think most Americans are interested in trying to make things better for all.  Since the majority of Americans don't even have a passport, it's unlikely they have personal experience with the homogeny in other countries around the globe.  

In the daily headlines I read about the worst racists in this country, but when I'm sitting on the soccer sideline, I know this is the only place in the world where kids and adults with family lineages from all over the world enjoy playing together and supporting one another.  And that should count for something.


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 16, 2019)

oh canada said:


> 13yr old is old news...i don't care nor need to follow her month to month progress.  Nike will guarantee she gets a shot at the USWNT, even if not deserved by her play.  That book is already written.  Frankly, the kids I know would never consider a home-schooled girl with a private coach on salary since 6yrs old, a $100K practice field in her yard, and parents who promote/manage her full-time, an inspiring role model.  Crystal Dunn/Carli Lloyd she is not.
> 
> As for the other topic in this thread.  Despite the awful history of how it became so, USA now at least deserves credit for being the Diversity Experiment of the World.  No other country on this planet (Canada not even close) has such a diverse group of citizens (and non-citizens) living together and progressing together.  And, I do think most Americans are interested in trying to make things better for all.  Since the majority of Americans don't even have a passport, it's unlikely they have personal experience with the homogeny in other countries around the globe.
> 
> In the daily headlines I read about the worst racists in this country, but when I'm sitting on the soccer sideline, I know this is the only place in the world where kids and adults with family lineages from all over the world enjoy playing together and supporting one another.  And that should count for something.


I have yet to meet a close minded Canadian.  I meet close minded Americans every day.  Most European countries are no cup of tea when it comes to immigration.  Believe it or not a lot of the liberal European democracies are actually Constitutional Monarchies.  I would choose the USA over anywhere (especially Hawaii) but we are far from an idyllic place.  My wife’s grandmother who is 94 has a sign in her guest bathroom that reminds me of that every time I go to her house. 

The sign reads “Coloreds only.”  It is a stark reminder of how far we have come yet how much farther we have yet to go.


----------



## outside! (May 16, 2019)

We have a long way to go, but we are very diverse. Unfortunately we are also very segregated. At least soccer brings kids form different neighborhoods together.


----------



## MakeAPlay (May 16, 2019)

outside! said:


> We have a long way to go, but we are very diverse. Unfortunately we are also very segregated. At least soccer brings kids form different neighborhoods together.


Sports in general bring us together as Americans.  I know that there is very little I agree with @Sheriff Joe on but we can both cheer for the Dodgers/Angels.  

My best friend’s dad used to be the CEO of Matson Shipping my dad was a Marine.  Two very different backgrounds but we were teammates in college and have been best friends since we were both 19.

Sports are awesome for bringing us all together.


----------



## Just A Dad (May 16, 2019)

outside! said:


> We have a long way to go, but we are very diverse. Unfortunately we are also very segregated. At least soccer brings kids form different neighborhoods together.


I think sports in general does that


----------



## Supermodel56 (May 19, 2019)

oh canada said:


> 13yr old is old news...i don't care nor need to follow her month to month progress.  Nike will guarantee she gets a shot at the USWNT, even if not deserved by her play.  That book is already written.  Frankly, the kids I know would never consider a home-schooled girl with a private coach on salary since 6yrs old, a $100K practice field in her yard, and parents who promote/manage her full-time, an inspiring role model.  Crystal Dunn/Carli Lloyd she is not.
> 
> As for the other topic in this thread.  Despite the awful history of how it became so, USA now at least deserves credit for being the Diversity Experiment of the World.  No other country on this planet (Canada not even close) has such a diverse group of citizens (and non-citizens) living together and progressing together.  And, I do think most Americans are interested in trying to make things better for all.  Since the majority of Americans don't even have a passport, it's unlikely they have personal experience with the homogeny in other countries around the globe.
> 
> In the daily headlines I read about the worst racists in this country, but when I'm sitting on the soccer sideline, I know this is the only place in the world where kids and adults with family lineages from all over the world enjoy playing together and supporting one another.  And that should count for something.


Agreed and hoping we can all start to align on our own culture so we can thrive and unify to make progress. The fighting, arguing, name calling, hate, agendas, etc... just tired of it. We need to align on something and there’s going to need to be give and take. Appreciate the post.


----------



## Chalklines (May 24, 2019)

Here's some curve balls for argument sake. 

Are we being more critical because she's not a boy? Why arnt we trashing all the boys in Europe for signing with professional clubs and academys at a young age? 

Personally I think OM path looks screwed up from the outside because here in the states we really don't have a proven blueprint for our male/female players. She's a trailblazer right now just like Pulisic was.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 24, 2019)

Yes, it is different because she is not a boy - the end game for men’s soccer is a multi -million $ contract so that pursuit makes sense.  The end game for women’s soccer is poverty level income


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (May 24, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Yes, it is different because she is not a boy - the end game for men’s soccer is a multi -million $ contract so that pursuit makes sense.  The end game for women’s soccer is poverty level income


I would tend to agree with this, 43, but honestly... I'm not aware of a single soccer player (in the U.S.) that's chasing it for the money.  I think the sport still has some "purity" left in that respect.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 24, 2019)

Yes, of course but to give up a free college education before going pro makes no sense- there is not a financial benefit to that.  You can follow your passion for the game while you get a free college education


----------



## dk_b (May 24, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> Here's some curve balls for argument sake.
> 
> Are we being more critical because she's not a boy? Why arnt we trashing all the boys in Europe for signing with professional clubs and academys at a young age?
> 
> Personally I think OM path looks screwed up from the outside because here in the states we really don't have a proven blueprint for our male/female players. She's a trailblazer right now just like Pulisic was.


I think that is a fair question to ask and one we should all consider.  That said, I think the answer is "no, sort of" because even if we are critical of a 13yo boy signing a pro deal (I can certainly get into my issues with the European academy model), a career as a soccer player is far more possible for that boy than for any 13yo girl.  If a boy is good enough to play professionally even in the 2d or 3d divisions in Europe, he can earn a living (10 years ago (the first article I found in a recent search), 2d to 4th tier English players make, on average:  "£195,750, League One players £67,850 and League Two £49,600"; premier league players averaged more than 3x; my guess is that those #s are higher - considerably? - today).  The top women players can't touch that unless they are in the elite among the elite category, in a WC year (add in a substantial sum if they have the intangibles to ink endorsement deals).

Until the economics change, it seems that the dream that even the best 13yo will be the best 24yo with intangibles for endorsements is still a risky dream and, at 13yo, one gives up a TON to be on those very few players.


----------



## dk_b (May 24, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> I would tend to agree with this, 43, but honestly... I'm not aware of a single soccer player (in the U.S.) that's chasing it for the money.  I think the sport still has some "purity" left in that respect.


that may be true - I'd like to think it is - but it IS b/c of the huge money that US teens are being signed and moved to European academies.  It is not because those academies are interested in the kid's love of the sport - they want to have kids there who can help them lift a Cup or two or many and allow them to make $$$ (directly or through the ensuing transfers).  But for the huge money involved, the monied academies would not be scouting in far flung lands.


----------



## outside! (May 24, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Yes, of course but to give up a free college education before going pro makes no sense- there is not a financial benefit to that.  You can follow your passion for the game while you get a free college education


My understanding is that the Nike deal is for more than enough money to pay for a college.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 24, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> Here's some curve balls for argument sake.
> 
> Are we being more critical because she's not a boy? Why arnt we trashing all the boys in Europe for signing with professional clubs and academys at a young age?
> 
> Personally I think OM path looks screwed up from the outside because here in the states we really don't have a proven blueprint for our male/female players. She's a trailblazer right now just like Pulisic was.


I am not sure she is a trailblazer, that point is debatable. Pulisic became one without really knowing it.


----------



## timbuck (May 24, 2019)

outside! said:


> My understanding is that the Nike deal is for more than enough money to pay for a college.


Unless she gets pregnant 
https://sports.yahoo.com/allyson-felix-denounces-nike-for-failing-to-financially-support-athletes-during-pregnancy-011105472.html


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (May 24, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Unless she gets pregnant
> https://sports.yahoo.com/allyson-felix-denounces-nike-for-failing-to-financially-support-athletes-during-pregnancy-011105472.html


I doubt she worried about Nike's "progressive values" before she signed.  Let's not pretend Phil is a sweetheart of a guy.  But she lost me at “I wanted to set a new standard,” Felix wrote. “If I, one of Nike’s most widely marketed athletes, couldn’t secure these protections, who could?"

Girl, nobody has heard of you.


----------



## dk_b (May 24, 2019)

outside! said:


> My understanding is that the Nike deal is for more than enough money to pay for a college.


I guess I look at as:  is she a soccer player who signed an endorsement deal and that is sufficient to giving up what she no doubt will (and it may be more than sufficient) or is she more like a child actor who can make some money on a sitcom or a movie but still go to college (like Jodie Foster or Fred Savage or numerous others).  She can certainly be both, in a way - right now she's a soccer player but if, say, she falls out of love with it at 17 or 18 or maybe plateaus at 16, she can be more like the child actor.  And maybe not playing in college is worth that risk.

To me, it is not because, w/o knowing more, it seems to interfere with a lot of child development in addition to fixing her into a specific, narrow, athletic path.  That said, I don't know her.  I don't know her folks.  And I wish her well. (I really dislike the new Nike ad because I think it is just so overly simplified - the first 13yo to go pro? - it makes it sound like she is a trailblazer in a path that is reasonable for other girls to consider)


----------



## Supermodel56 (May 24, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I am not sure she is a trailblazer, that point is debatable. Pulisic became one without really knowing it.


Time will tell... in the meantime, who knows how big her endorsement deal is... it’s certainly a risk she chose to take and I say good for her! Why?!? Because it does provide insight for the rest of us on whether or not a pathway can be made for women in professional soccer. Those with daughters playing soccer should be hoping for her success, not knocking the risk she took!


----------



## outside! (May 24, 2019)

I do agree that the headline is a bit misleading. But if I had a 13 year old that could sign a deal that would easily pay for college, we would give it serious consideration.


----------



## espola (May 24, 2019)

dk_b said:


> I guess I look at as:  is she a soccer player who signed an endorsement deal and that is sufficient to giving up what she no doubt will (and it may be more than sufficient) or is she more like a child actor who can make some money on a sitcom or a movie but still go to college (like Jodie Foster or Fred Savage or numerous others).  She can certainly be both, in a way - right now she's a soccer player but if, say, she falls out of love with it at 17 or 18 or maybe plateaus at 16, she can be more like the child actor.  And maybe not playing in college is worth that risk.
> 
> To me, it is not because, w/o knowing more, it seems to interfere with a lot of child development in addition to fixing her into a specific, narrow, athletic path.  That said, I don't know her.  I don't know her folks.  And I wish her well. (I really dislike the new Nike ad because I think it is just so overly simplified - the first 13yo to go pro? - it makes it sound like she is a trailblazer in a path that is reasonable for other girls to consider)


I read/viewed an interview with her mother.  I didn't like her (the mother, that is) after that.  That made me suspicious of the whole process - a child who is best on her beginner team inspires her parents to give her every advantage they can afford (and they can afford a lot) and then try to turn the marketing process back to their own benefit.  One item of suspicion - if they had stayed in California, the young performer would have been protected to sosme degree under the Jackie Coogan Law.  I'm not sure what the situation is in Oregon.


----------



## Real Deal (May 24, 2019)

outside! said:


> I do agree that the headline is a bit misleading. But if I had a 13 year old that could sign a deal that would easily pay for college, we would give it serious consideration.


I think this entirely depends on what college tuition we are talking about the deal covering.  Could it pay USC tuition?  Or Cal State Northridge tuition??


----------



## Supermodel56 (May 24, 2019)

Real Deal said:


> I think this entirely depends on what college tuition we are talking about the deal covering.  Could it pay USC tuition?  Or Cal State Northridge tuition??


It doesn’t matter. At age 13, going pro will give her more work/real life experience than any other high school kid out there by the time she turns 18. Her parents will continue to home school her and so long as she learns the curriculum and scores well on SAT’s, she can always apply to college and for certain she will standout and get in. The only thing she loses is the ability to play college ball - but she could still play for a pro/semi pro team during college if she wanted or just focus on academics.

Her parents also have enough money that athletic scholarship money isn’t going to be a huge decision driver.


----------



## dk_b (May 24, 2019)

Supermodel56 said:


> Time will tell... in the meantime, who knows how big her endorsement deal is... it’s certainly a risk she chose to take and I say good for her! Why?!? Because it does provide insight for the rest of us on whether or not a pathway can be made for women in professional soccer. Those with daughters playing soccer should be hoping for her success, not knocking the risk she took!


I don't think that discussing pros and cons is unfair or out of bounds.  Her parents have made her a public figure and their very public decision is fair game for discussion, praise, criticism, dissection, etc.  To you their decision provides info regarding pro soccer as a pathway for women pros.  Fair enough and but, for me, this provides more information about whether or not one 13yo prodigy (of which there are others) is able to capitalize (I don't mean that in a critical way at all) for a very risky decision.  Because you and I have different takes - some might say we disagree - does not mean that your point is not reasonable nor does it mean that mine is not.  I realize that I often don't internet correctly b/c I don't think views that differ from mine are signs of character flaws as I don't think disagreement, reasonably expressed, is a bad thing.  

I do wish her well but her decision provides little info for me - I'd prefer to look at the young women in college right now as they weigh pro prospects and "real world" jobs after they graduate.  That is a far more likely path for the vast, vast majority of the elite players and the possible path for one of my three daughters.  The players making significant money are not the ones who are simply elite - they are the elite of the elite and marketable in other ways.  How does a 13yo help with that?  Unless the $$$ increases significantly throughout women's soccer, she will remain an outlier (and I just hope it does not end badly with Nike or her agent or her folks exploiting this particular time when she's a unique "earner" - as @espola notes, the Coogan laws did not come from no where.


----------



## espola (May 24, 2019)

dk_b said:


> I don't think that discussing pros and cons is unfair or out of bounds.  Her parents have made her a public figure and their very public decision is fair game for discussion, praise, criticism, dissection, etc.  To you their decision provides info regarding pro soccer as a pathway for women pros.  Fair enough and but, for me, this provides more information about whether or not one 13yo prodigy (of which there are others) is able to capitalize (I don't mean that in a critical way at all) for a very risky decision.  Because you and I have different takes - some might say we disagree - does not mean that your point is not reasonable nor does it mean that mine is not.  I realize that I often don't internet correctly b/c I don't think views that differ from mine are signs of character flaws as I don't think disagreement, reasonably expressed, is a bad thing.
> 
> I do wish her well but her decision provides little info for me - I'd prefer to look at the young women in college right now as they weigh pro prospects and "real world" jobs after they graduate.  That is a far more likely path for the vast, vast majority of the elite players and the possible path for one of my three daughters.  The players making significant money are not the ones who are simply elite - they are the elite of the elite and marketable in other ways.  How does a 13yo help with that?  Unless the $$$ increases significantly throughout women's soccer, she will remain an outlier (and I just hope it does not end badly with Nike or her agent or her folks exploiting this particular time when she's a unique "earner" - as @espola notes, the Coogan laws did not come from no where.


And the Coogan law is not really that restrictive - the parents can do whatever they like with 85% or so of her earnings.  I'm sure they will need a new SUV so they can get to practice on time.

In the videos I have seen of her on the field, I got the impression that she is competent playing with older players (as one would expect after years of private instruction) but not overwhelming.  It cannot yet be determined whether she will grow up to be physically dominant at 18 or 20.


----------



## Supermodel56 (May 24, 2019)

dk_b said:


> I don't think that discussing pros and cons is unfair or out of bounds.  Her parents have made her a public figure and their very public decision is fair game for discussion, praise, criticism, dissection, etc.  To you their decision provides info regarding pro soccer as a pathway for women pros.  Fair enough and but, for me, this provides more information about whether or not one 13yo prodigy (of which there are others) is able to capitalize (I don't mean that in a critical way at all) for a very risky decision.  Because you and I have different takes - some might say we disagree - does not mean that your point is not reasonable nor does it mean that mine is not.  I realize that I often don't internet correctly b/c I don't think views that differ from mine are signs of character flaws as I don't think disagreement, reasonably expressed, is a bad thing.
> 
> I do wish her well but her decision provides little info for me - I'd prefer to look at the young women in college right now as they weigh pro prospects and "real world" jobs after they graduate.  That is a far more likely path for the vast, vast majority of the elite players and the possible path for one of my three daughters.  The players making significant money are not the ones who are simply elite - they are the elite of the elite and marketable in other ways.  How does a 13yo help with that?  Unless the $$$ increases significantly throughout women's soccer, she will remain an outlier (and I just hope it does not end badly with Nike or her agent or her folks exploiting this particular time when she's a unique "earner" - as @espola notes, the Coogan laws did not come from no where.


It’s totally fair to have your own opinion and decide if it’s something you would do... that wasn’t what I meant. And you’re right, usually college is the pathway to the pros.

What I meant to point out was just the risk she took and how we all will benefit from this if she succeeds and from learnings if the experiment fails. The big question for investors right now is can money be made from women’s sports? 

Will people watch? Buy fan gear? Attend games? Is there a large enough audience?

IMHO if we want to see opportunities in pro soccer for our daughters to open up, it’d be in our best interest to encourage these endorsements, help them get eyeballs, buy the gear and help generate positive buzz. If these experiments fail, at some point the big players are going to give up. This is where we need to invest our time and energy and build the house together... just my opinion. 

Would I encourage my daughter to make the same decision... hard to say... Given she is talented and could do really well in other careers, she’d be putting a lot at risk. It really would have to be her decision if she felt she had the talent and passion for it. But I am thankful OM is taking the risk on behalf of all of us, intentionally or not!


----------



## Supermodel56 (May 24, 2019)

Ya know, as I think about it... When men take risks, other men say, that guys a fearless badass (or sometimes a moron). When women take a risk, other women go, who the hell does she think she is?

When I touched on this in the other thread regarding race, etc... people thought I was being racist but my point was we hold ourselves back more than anything else. It wasn’t to justify racism.

When we don’t believe we can, when we’re afraid of failure or think failure is the worst thing possible, that is what holds us back. If you never take the risk, you never change things. And if you really want to change something, you’ve gotta go all in.


----------



## Supermodel56 (May 24, 2019)

There are so many things to invest in. For pro women’s soccer to take off (or anything for that matter) it needs to get to the point where massive numbers of people can’t help themselves but want to tune in to watch. Think about it... football is more than just the touchdowns - which are amazing plays, but you’re also watching because you love seeing the hits and ints on the other side of the ball are entertaining as well. I hate Mayweather and swear off watching his matches every time, but I tune in because I can’t help but want to see him get his ass whooped. (He’s brilliant btw)

Tiger, Jordan, Kobe, Messi. its more than them just being great players, they are/were incredibly fun to watch and you’ll sit there for two hours or more hoping you’ll get to witness something amazing. This is how you sustain a sport or at least launch one. 

Do I think Olivia is enough? Prob not. But that is the hook WPSL and Nike are hoping for. How do we get people engaged and hooked on this sport?


----------



## full90 (May 24, 2019)

She isn't a pro soccer player. She's an actress. Will the endorsement money continue to stream in for the 5 years until she can actually play professional soccer? Maybe. 
And maybe it's at dollar amounts that are life changing. Great. But if it isn't she sacrificed a lot to sit around and wait for 5 years to debut with the Thorns. When she could've had the EXACT same path but in her hometown (training up, homeschool and playing on various teams) and still had the option for college. 

And let's say she goes pro at 18 and is amazing. Will it matter? Maybe.

In a year when she hasn't played a meaningful game in over 12 months time will anyone care about her? Will they keep making commercials about a girl who hasn't done much other than be a really really good youth player and train a lot? 

Maybe. 

A lot of maybes. Curious to see how it all plays out. I think she's exceptional so no hating from me. But again...glad it's not my kid.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 24, 2019)

IMO, the parents are doing it for the hype and maybe not the best interest of the child.   You all know that you cannot make up this youth years once we get old.  She is missing time with her friends, extended family, and just missing out on being a teenager. All for $20k to $40k a year?     I guess she can make it endorsements but again she is just 13.   Even most elite boys at age 13 are not guaranteed star players.  

Here’s an article of her current situation 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/olivia-moultrie-became-youngest-pro-in-womens-soccer-at-13-but-she-cant-play-for-a-topflight-club-so-whats-next-211506300.html


----------



## Soccer43 (May 24, 2019)

I don’t know the details but am fairly confident that it is not a multi-million dollar deal so it just doesn’t make sense.  Again, she did not give up her eligibility to play pro- she gave up her eligibility to be in a Nike commercial - I don’t think that is for the love of the game


----------



## RocketFile (May 24, 2019)

Geez guys not everyone has to follow the same path. So what if she doesn't fit into your preconceived notion of what makes a teenager happy. Maybe this is exactly what she wants. Maybe she fails. So what. Life moves on. 

So college is the end goal? Not for everyone. Her decision doesn't compute in your cost benefit analysis? What an uninspired way of living your life.

Times are changing. Opportunities for women are changing. 

Bravo to her for not taking the safe path and going for it.


----------



## espola (May 24, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> Geez guys not everyone has to follow the same path. So what if she doesn't fit into your preconceived notion of what makes a teenager happy. Maybe this is exactly what she wants. Maybe she fails. So what. Life moves on.
> 
> So college is the end goal? Not for everyone. Her decision doesn't compute in your cost benefit analysis? What an uninspired way of living your life.
> 
> ...


So this young girl built a practice field in the back yard and hired a coach?  Hired an agent?  Decided to sign earlier than anyone before, and then aggressively publicize it?

Interesting perspective.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 24, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> Geez guys not everyone has to follow the same path. So what if she doesn't fit into your preconceived notion of what makes a teenager happy. Maybe this is exactly what she wants. Maybe she fails. So what. Life moves on.
> 
> So college is the end goal? Not for everyone. Her decision doesn't compute in your cost benefit analysis? What an uninspired way of living your life.
> 
> ...


I honestly don’t care what she and her parents decide for her life but how about we stop putting her on a pedestal like she is a brave, innovative, role model for all female players - there is nothing about her path that is interesting or brave  to me and am definitely not looking for how this paves a pathway for women’s soccer going forward.  I’m much more interested in what type of human being my player becomes as an adult and what she will contribute to society.


----------



## Supermodel56 (May 24, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> I honestly don’t care what she and her parents decide for her life but how about we stop putting her on a pedestal like she is a brave, innovative, role model for all female players - there is nothing about her path that is interesting or brave  to me and am definitely not looking for how this paves a pathway for women’s soccer going forward.  I’m much more interested in what type of human being my player becomes as an adult and what she will contribute to society.


And yet, here you are in this thread...


----------



## Real Deal (May 24, 2019)

Supermodel56 said:


> It doesn’t matter. At age 13, going pro will give her more work/real life experience than any other high school kid out there by the time she turns 18. Her parents will continue to home school her and so long as she learns the curriculum and scores well on SAT’s, she can always apply to college and for certain she will standout and get in. The only thing she loses is the ability to play college ball - but she could still play for a pro/semi pro team during college if she wanted or just focus on academics.
> 
> Her parents also have enough money that athletic scholarship money isn’t going to be a huge decision driver.


Hello Supermodel- I was responding jokingly  to Outside’s comment about HIM considering $$ over college for his own family- not criticizing the path of anyone.

I am completely in awe of this for this one girl as she is clearly special in the soccer world. I agree with you and  don’t think it sounds like  it’s about the money for her and family.  It’s her dream.  And I like seeing dreams come true for young people female and male alike!


----------



## Chalklines (May 25, 2019)

Why does everyone assume her parents are wealthy? 

Valencia? Reminds me of Ontario with similar housing prices even if they live back in Stevensons Ranch.

Trainer on salary? Write off since they own their own business. 

Soccer field? Another write off even if they dropped $100k. So the family didn't drop a pool in the back yard that sucks money out of their pockets everytime the filter turns on.

I'm thinking the drive and marketing push is because the family is middle class. People who have never had a taste at wealth are more willing to take chances like this then steer the course of a high school / college / grad school / career.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 25, 2019)

Supermodel56 said:


> Ya know, as I think about it... When men take risks, other men say, that guys a fearless badass (or sometimes a moron). When women take a risk, other women go, who the hell does she think she is?
> 
> When we don’t believe we can, when we’re afraid of failure or think failure is the worst thing possible, that is what holds us back. If you never take the risk, you never change things. And if you really want to change something, you’ve gotta go all in.


You are right there’s somewhat of a double standard. However, the upside has to make sense for anyone.  Her upside doesn’t add up compared to a boy that could make millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars. 

Also I can’t think of any 13 year old boy going pro and succeeding. Other than Freddy Adu and we all know how bad that went.  All others move up the academy ranks and the best will go pro at age 16-17.  13 is way too young. 

Hopefully she continues the love and passion to play soccer if she fails to make the starting team in a few years.


----------



## espola (May 25, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> Why does everyone assume her parents are wealthy?
> 
> Valencia? Reminds me of Ontario with similar housing prices even if they live back in Stevensons Ranch.
> 
> ...


Are you saying they are not wealthy, they are just tax cheats?


----------



## Soccer43 (May 25, 2019)

Supermodel56 said:


> And yet, here you are in this thread...


Yes, because I am curious about human nature and why many are holding her up as a role model or a path to follow.  I am interested in the discussion.  It isn’t logical to me as SoccerFan just stated “Her upside doesn’t add up”


----------



## Supermodel56 (May 25, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Yes, because I am curious about human nature and why many are holding her up as a role model or a path to follow.  I am interested in the discussion.  It isn’t logical to me as SoccerFan just stated “Her upside doesn’t add up”


If she’s already homeschooled, she’s really got nothing to lose except the opportunity to play college ball. So long as she keeps up her academic work, if come 17 and it starts to look like this is no longer an opportunity worth pursuing, she can always decide to go to college and play in a semi-pro league during college instead.

Your argument that there’s no money in women’s soccer today is fair. But this is the best time to challenge that - at a young age when you can still recover. I really see low risk here.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 25, 2019)

there are many other factors to a developing teenage girl than how well they play soccer and what they soccer path is.  the environment, her social world, her intellectual growth and maturity, and her growing identity in this world are a few other important factors.  It is different from boys, to not understand that and take that into consideration is not understanding an adolescent girl.

I am also a realist.  I believe women's professional basketball has been around much longer than pro soccer and there is still a significant difference in money between men and women's pro basketball.  I just don't see the pro women's salaries going up enough to make a difference in the disparity.


----------



## espola (May 25, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> there are many other factors to a developing teenage girl than how well they play soccer and what they soccer path is.  the environment, her social world, her intellectual growth and maturity, and her growing identity in this world are a few other important factors.  It is different from boys, to not understand that and take that into consideration is not understanding an adolescent girl.
> 
> I am also a realist.  I believe women's professional basketball has been around much longer than pro soccer and there is still a significant difference in money between men and women's pro basketball.  I just don't see the pro women's salaries going up enough to make a difference in the disparity.


Women's soccer is more pleasant to watch for a soccer fan than women's basketball is for a basketball fan.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 25, 2019)

I agree with that


----------



## espola (May 25, 2019)

Supermodel56 said:


> If she’s already homeschooled, she’s really got nothing to lose except the opportunity to play college ball. So long as she keeps up her academic work, if come 17 and it starts to look like this is no longer an opportunity worth pursuing, she can always decide to go to college and play in a semi-pro league during college instead.
> 
> Your argument that there’s no money in women’s soccer today is fair. But this is the best time to challenge that - at a young age when you can still recover. I really see low risk here.


Home business, homeschooled - maybe they can start their own soccer league.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (May 25, 2019)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> You are right there’s somewhat of a double standard. However, the upside has to make sense for anyone.  Her upside doesn’t add up compared to a boy that could make millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars.


How do you know this? The women's game is growing quickly. Many of the top teams in Europe now have professional women's teams. You have no idea what the financial rewards might be in 10 years? You can guess but you literally have no idea. Someone always has to be the first to break the mold. There's plenty of players in the MLS making no more than a solid salary in any other business. Are they making a mistake too?


----------



## Soccer43 (May 25, 2019)

I guess time will tell


----------



## oh canada (May 25, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> Why does everyone assume her parents are wealthy?
> 
> Valencia? Reminds me of Ontario with similar housing prices even if they live back in Stevensons Ranch.
> 
> ...


Accounting 101:  In order to have a "writeoff" you need to have more income than it.

PR 101: Perception is more important than reality.  I think what annoys most people about this is the premature crowning of a 13-year old as anything more than one of the best players in her age group.  That's not her fault.  It's Nike's and her publicity hungry parents.  Did I miss a Nike commercial featuring Pulisic 7 years ago?  Messi at 16yrs?  This girl is getting more pub than 13-year old Lebron James Jr.  Because of it, 50% of folks are going to root against her just to say, "Told you so, another Todd Marinovich."  And that's a bummer for her.   

Jennifer Capriati made the French Open semifinal at 14yrs.  There's a 10yr old swimmer currently beating Michael Phelps' records (would you believe his name is Clark Kent  ).  These are examples of impressive and tangible achievements for kids.  So is becoming the National Spelling Bee Champ.  

If you're worried you might not get the cards, early bluffing can still get you the win.  Just need to convince others that you do.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 26, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> How do you know this? The women's game is growing quickly. Many of the top teams in Europe now have professional women's teams. You have no idea what the financial rewards might be in 10 years? You can guess


The question at hand is does it make sense for a 13 year old to skip school and miss out on being a kid to go pro.  Some on this post say “Yes because she is trailblazing and leading the path for a future growth of women’s soccer”.    

That’s not trailblazing nor any type of leadership for any young girl.     

Trailblazing was the US women team of the first World Cup.   Trailblazing is women fighting for the right to get paid more or equal to the men’s soccer team.   There’s a top notch  women professional soccer player in Europe right now that is passing on the chance to player for her country due to political and personal beliefs.   That’s impressive.   

If you want your daughter or future girls to go pro at 13, then you need to check your beliefs.    Even if it was a 13 year old boy, I would say the same thing.  

16 or 17 years of age, ok maybe then.   But at age 13, absolutely not.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 26, 2019)

Excellent post!  Exactly.  This is a personal choice for her and her family but I don’t see this  as a way to change or improve women’s professional soccer.  

On another note, How many child star actors turned out well?  If you treat a child like an adult and emerge them in an adult environment when they are still kids it often isn’t good for them.  There is some basic science involved where their frontal lobes are not developed yet which is the area of their  brain that is needed for complex decision making and planning and analysis.


----------



## MacDre (May 26, 2019)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> The question at hand is does it make sense for a 13 year old to skip school and miss out on being a kid to go pro.  Some on this post say “Yes because she is trailblazing and leading the path for a future growth of women’s soccer”.
> 
> That’s not trailblazing nor any type of leadership for any young girl.
> 
> ...


Let’s not fight over semantics, but I don’t see OM’s situation as much different than Pugh.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-womens-world-cup/story/3858221/get-readyworld-here-comes-mal-pugh?platform=amp
Based on my limited experience with my 11 year old daughter, I think certain kids are gonna have to make a choice earlier.  I don’t think money will be a problem for the few kids that are chosen.

I think OM is being used to put everyone on notice of the evolution of women’s soccer in the
USA.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 26, 2019)

13 year old with a contract to be in a Nike commercially vs 18year old with a contract to play professional soccer.  I don’t see those situations as similar at all


----------



## espola (May 26, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Let’s not fight over semantics, but I don’t see OM’s situation as much different than Pugh.
> https://www.google.com/amp/www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-womens-world-cup/story/3858221/get-readyworld-here-comes-mal-pugh?platform=amp
> Based on my limited experience with my 11 year old daughter, I think certain kids are gonna have to make a choice earlier.  I don’t think money will be a problem for the few kids that are chosen.contracts for players who have yet to
> 
> ...


Does the "evolution" include contracts for players who have yet to prove themselves in any meaningful competition?


----------



## MacDre (May 26, 2019)

espola said:


> Does the "evolution" include contracts for players who have yet to prove themselves in any meaningful competition?


No, that is the advertisement/marketing part to put others on notice as to the direction US Soccer is headed.  According to the article US Soccer identified Pugh at 12 which is similar to OM.


----------



## espola (May 26, 2019)

MacDre said:


> No, that is the advertisement/marketing part to put others on notice as to the direction US Soccer is headed.  According to the article US Soccer identified Pugh at 12 which is similar to OM.


And?


----------



## MacDre (May 26, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> 13 year old with a contract to be in a Nike commercially vs 18year old with a contract to play professional soccer.  I don’t see those situations as similar at all


I frame the issues differently.  I see that US Soccer identified both Pugh and OM around 12.  Both also skipped college.  Both are being put in challenging environments to further their development as well.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 26, 2019)

US soccer “identifies” lots of players at 12 years old.  They invite hundreds of youth players to various YNT events and some pan out and others drop off by the time they are 18.  I know many players that were identified as superstars until 14 when they plateaued out and became average at best or flat out quit soccer because they just weren’t that interested anymore.


----------



## MacDre (May 26, 2019)

espola said:


> And?


I guess what I saying is that from a development perspective, I don’t see much difference between OM & Pugh.  I think the situation is evolving because OM was able to get paid earlier than Pugh.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 26, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I frame the issues differently.  I see that US Soccer identified both Pugh and OM around 12.  Both also skipped college.  Both are being put in challenging environments to further their development as well.


I am not sure what challenging environment she moved to.  She left a top DA team in a highly competitive conference to play for the lowest ranked DA team in an average conference that isn’t playing against the strongest competitors.  She isn’t playing with the Pro Portland Thorns team.


----------



## MacDre (May 26, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> US soccer “identifies” lots of players at 12 years old.  They invite hundreds of youth players to various YNT events and some pan out and others drop off by the time they are 18.  I know many players that were identified as superstars until 14 when they plateaued out and became average at best or flat out quit soccer because they just weren’t that interested anymore.


Maybe.  But according to MAP, Jill and BJ have always had a thing for Pugh.
Also, based on my limited experience with my daughter, I don’t see a lot of superstars.  My players not the biggest or the fastest but she consistently distinguishes herself on the pitch. 
I honestly don’t see how my daughter could get any smaller or slower.  When I hear people make comments about kids that plateau, it makes me think that these kids were selected for their physical attributes and were basically training equipment that no one seriously thought would play at the next level.


----------



## MacDre (May 26, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> I am not sure what challenging environment she moved to.  She left a top DA team in a highly competitive conference to play for the lowest ranked DA team in an average conference that isn’t playing against the strongest competitors.  She isn’t playing with the Pro Portland Thorns team.


I think overall the GDA is watered down and weak in all divisions.  I think too many kids are adversely impacted by bad coaching at the younger ages.  So, I think OM having the opportunity to train with the first team and play pre season games is much better than staying where she was.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 26, 2019)

What makes you think she is training with the first team and will be playing with them in preseason games?  I would think she would want to play in the WPSL for higher level of competition at her age


----------



## MacDre (May 26, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> What makes you think she is training with the first team and will be playing with them in preseason games?


There are several articles that say so.  I also believe she played in the preseason game against the U23 USWNT.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 26, 2019)

Yes, she did play part of the second half in a preseason against the U23 WNT but the Portland Thorns general manager also said “We are pleased to help her pursue her goals by having her register with the Thorns Youth Academy”.  And that she “could” have the opportunity to train alongside the professional team.  I still think it is all a PR stunt by Nike.  She is playing regularly with the DA team- you can check the game reports.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 26, 2019)

The other fact that stands out right now is the U17YNT coach just took two completely different rosters overseas to two different events.  Why was OM not on one of those rosters?


----------



## MacDre (May 26, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> The other fact that stands out right now is the U17YNT coach just took two completely different rosters overseas to two different events.  Why was OM not on one of those rosters?


Good question.


----------



## Soccerfan2 (May 26, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> The other fact that stands out right now is the U17YNT coach just took two completely different rosters overseas to two different events.  Why was OM not on one of those rosters?


She’s in the U14 pool


----------



## Soccer43 (May 26, 2019)

You can call up players from any age to YNT rosters.  There have been several players over the years that have been called up by 2/3 years.  If she is good enough to train and play preseason games with a pro team why isn’t she strong enough to play with 16 year olds?


----------



## full90 (May 26, 2019)

Soccerfan2 said:


> She’s in the U14 pool


That’s what soccer43 means: if she was that amazing she’d be playing up in international events and would at least be in the u17 pool for training camps. That’s telling that she isn’t. 

Some good comments on this thread. 

I just don’t think she gained that much. And where were the advisors telling her “hey you’re sacrificing a lot for a medium payday now. Nike May drop you in a year when the next hot thing comes along. Wait 18 months and see how you feel and where things stand.”


----------



## Soccerfan2 (May 26, 2019)

She’s on the younger end even in the U14 pool. Why isn’t she playing up even further? I don’t know, and I don’t have any interest in making judgements about things I know nothing about. I hope the kid succeeds. I don’t think she necessarily has to be the best female player ever right at this moment to justify picking a path that she feels will accelerate her development.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 29, 2019)

Speaking of going pro, this is a great article on Mallory Pugh 
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/mallory-pugh-united-states-world-cup-reckless-child

Interesting how she decided to go pro after she tried college for a year and she knew that she was good enough to go pro.   Still think she made a mistake but then again she is playing in the World Cup. Lol.


----------



## dk_b (May 29, 2019)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Speaking of going pro, this is a great article on Mallory Pugh
> https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/mallory-pugh-united-states-world-cup-reckless-child
> 
> Interesting how she decided to go pro after she tried college for a year and she knew that she was good enough to go pro.   Still think she made a mistake but then again she is playing in the World Cup. Lol.


(this comment is w/o reading the article - thank you for linking that, @SoccerFan4Life ; I had seen references but will now read it)

Really tough situation for her - and for Tierna Davidson - assuming she (like Tierna) would have been taken to the senior squad even if she were still at UCLA.  Tough because there are few seasons like a WC season to be noticed (notoriety = potential endorsements) and to get WC-level bonuses (still trail the men BUT more than they can earn in a non-WC year).  As a Stanford fan, I'd have loved to see Tierna play another year; as a Pac-12 fan, I'd have loved to see Pugh play college soccer.  But as a realist, if you are good enough to make the senior national team in a WC year, it is hard to tell the player "no" b/c who knows who/what/where she might be in 4 more years.


----------



## dk_b (May 29, 2019)

dk_b said:


> (this comment is w/o reading the article - thank you for linking that, @SoccerFan4Life ; I had seen references but will now read it)
> 
> Really tough situation for her - and for Tierna Davidson - assuming she (like Tierna) would have been taken to the senior squad even if she were still at UCLA.  Tough because there are few seasons like a WC season to be noticed (notoriety = potential endorsements) and to get WC-level bonuses (still trail the men BUT more than they can earn in a non-WC year).  As a Stanford fan, I'd have loved to see Tierna play another year; as a Pac-12 fan, I'd have loved to see Pugh play college soccer.  But as a realist, if you are good enough to make the senior national team in a WC year, it is hard to tell the player "no" b/c who knows who/what/where she might be in 4 more years.


In my younger days, I'd see guys going pro early and I'd think, "oh, they should stay in college.  Pro sports will be there.  The college experience is irreplaceable."  I still agree with that last statement but I don't think that top line pros should stick it out in college and it was Tiger who made me think that way (and I'm about 8 years older than he is so I was in my late 20s around this time - a grown ass adult doing my graduate work).  I worry (in a paternalistic way) about a young person giving up too much to chase a very illusive dream but if you are told you will be a lottery pick in the NBA draft or you can make millions in endorsements and win majors (like Tiger) or, in Pugh's/Davidson's case, have a guaranteed shot at winning a WC . . . if that dream is NOT illusive, who am I to say that they should stay in school (setting aside the exploitive nature of college sports for the revenue sports)?


----------



## dk_b (May 29, 2019)

This just dropped from SI's Chris Ballard:  https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/05/29/olivia-moultrie-pro-us-soccer-nwsl-portland-thorns-nike.


----------



## espola (May 29, 2019)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Speaking of going pro, this is a great article on Mallory Pugh
> https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/mallory-pugh-united-states-world-cup-reckless-child
> 
> Interesting how she decided to go pro after she tried college for a year and she knew that she was good enough to go pro.   Still think she made a mistake but then again she is playing in the World Cup. Lol.


From my limited viewpoint, it was obvious she was good enough to be called out of college to play on the WNT, so why shouldn't she be getting paid for it?


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (May 29, 2019)

So many experts. It's amazing that we're not overrun with the amount of World Class players coming out of So Cal youth soccer every day.


----------



## espola (May 29, 2019)

dk_b said:


> In my younger days, I'd see guys going pro early and I'd think, "oh, they should stay in college.  Pro sports will be there.  The college experience is irreplaceable."  I still agree with that last statement but I don't think that top line pros should stick it out in college and it was Tiger who made me think that way (and I'm about 8 years older than he is so I was in my late 20s around this time - a grown ass adult doing my graduate work).  I worry (in a paternalistic way) about a young person giving up too much to chase a very illusive dream but if you are told you will be a lottery pick in the NBA draft or you can make millions in endorsements and win majors (like Tiger) or, in Pugh's/Davidson's case, have a guaranteed shot at winning a WC . . . if that dream is NOT illusive, who am I to say that they should stay in school (setting aside the exploitive nature of college sports for the revenue sports)?


If playing in college would make a player who desires to be a professional player into a better pro player, then stick with college.  If a player is already good enough to make a National Team or a top-flight pro team, then skip college.


----------



## outside! (May 29, 2019)

espola said:


> If playing in college would make a player who desires to be a professional player into a better pro player, then stick with college.  If a player is already good enough to make a National Team or a top-flight pro team, then skip college.


Or delay college. It will still be there.


----------



## Janie270 (May 29, 2019)

OM is a 2005 playing with 2002's and has 13 goals in 21 games.  In other words, she's doing amazing.  Feels like people are rooting against her succeeding or sad that she doesn't want to join the exploitative NCAA because they are fans of the PAC 12 or whoever.  We should all be rooting for her and recognize that she's doing great.  How many of you have a u14 that is crushing it while playing three years up?


----------



## espola (May 29, 2019)

Janie270 said:


> OM is a 2005 playing with 2002's and has 13 goals in 21 games.  In other words, she's doing amazing.  Feels like people are rooting against her succeeding or sad that she doesn't want to join the exploitative NCAA because they are fans of the PAC 12 or whoever.  We should all be rooting for her and recognize that she's doing great.  How many of you have a u14 that is crushing it while playing three years up?


From another view, that would be like a HS Freshman being a starter on his/her HS team, which is not all that unusual.


----------



## dk_b (May 29, 2019)

Janie270 said:


> OM is a 2005 playing with 2002's and has 13 goals in 21 games.  In other words, she's doing amazing.  Feels like people are rooting against her succeeding or sad that she doesn't want to join the exploitative NCAA because they are fans of the PAC 12 or whoever.  We should all be rooting for her and recognize that she's doing great.  How many of you have a u14 that is crushing it while playing three years up?


Your interpretation is wildly different than mine - and we are reading the same comments.  I see no one rooting against her even while the broad discussion about a 13yo playing with women, giving up college, etc. has been reasonable with a lot of different opinions.  And why would it matter if anyone has a u14 playing similarly?  The entire reason this is something worthy of discussion is because it has been publicized because it is so unique.  Is it out of bounds unless one has a similar kid?


----------



## Just A Dad (May 29, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Excellent post!  Exactly.  This is a personal choice for her and her family but I don’t see this  as a way to change or improve women’s professional soccer.
> 
> On another note, How many child star actors turned out well?  If you treat a child like an adult and emerge them in an adult environment when they are still kids it often isn’t good for them.  There is some basic science involved where their frontal lobes are not developed yet which is the area of their  brain that is needed for complex decision making and planning and analysis.


What about kids who enter college at a real young age?


----------



## outside! (May 29, 2019)

espola said:


> From another view, that would be like a HS Freshman being a starter on his/her HS team, which is not all that unusual.


It is actually quite different. DD started as a freshman and scored 15 goals in the first half of the season (including one against Cathedral). She was an average player on her club team. HS teams have a wide range of player talent when compared to elite club teams.


----------



## Janie270 (May 29, 2019)

espola said:


> From another view, that would be like a HS Freshman being a starter on his/her HS team, which is not all that unusual.


It's not even closely the same because that happens all the time due to the shallow talent pool at most schools.  There are probably five 2005's in the whole country who have gotten playing time on a regular basis with 2002's in DA and none have scored like she has.


----------



## outside! (May 29, 2019)

Janie270 said:


> It's not even closely the same because that happens all the time due to the shallow talent pool at most schools.  There are probably five 2005's in the whole country who have gotten playing time on a regular basis with 2002's in DA and none have scored like she has.


You said it better than I did.


----------



## Kicker4Life (May 29, 2019)

Soccerfan2 said:


> She’s in the U14 pool


She will be a part of the u15’s next Camp


----------



## MacDre (May 29, 2019)

Just A Dad said:


> What about kids who enter college at a real young age?


Exactly.  My kid will be ready to start college at 12.  I recently spoke with the NCAA and was told to make sure my kid only attends college part time.  According to NCAA if she goes to college full time her eligibility clock will start ticking.
Since OM is being homeschooled maybe she’s on a similar academic trajectory as my kid.  If so, I think she could get an academic scholarship, graduate college early, skip college sports, and be ready by 18.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 29, 2019)

https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/05/29/olivia-moultrie-pro-us-soccer-nwsl-portland-thorns-nike
A friend forwarded this to me today.


----------



## dk_b (May 29, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/05/29/olivia-moultrie-pro-us-soccer-nwsl-portland-thorns-nike
> A friend forwarded this to me today.


Yup. I linked that up thread


----------



## Soccerfan2 (May 29, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> She will be a part of the u15’s next Camp


Yes I would assume. Have you seen any camp details?


----------



## Real Deal (May 29, 2019)

Now that brings up a general question:  Are there any international rules regarding a pro playing on a Youth national team? Or is this another uncharted territory.


----------



## MacDre (May 29, 2019)

Real Deal said:


> Now that brings up a general question:  Are there any international rules regarding a pro playing on a Youth national team? Or is this another uncharted territory.


Weah is playing U20 on the men’s side


----------



## Real Deal (May 29, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Weah is playing U20 on the men’s side


Oh, of course!  Well that's good because USA needs players like her on the team


----------



## RocketFile (May 29, 2019)

MacDre said:


> Weah is playing U20 on the men’s side


Every player on the US Men's U20 team is a pro.


----------



## espola (May 29, 2019)

Real Deal said:


> Now that brings up a general question:  Are there any international rules regarding a pro playing on a Youth national team? Or is this another uncharted territory.


Does taking money for appearing on TV make her a "pro" in international soccer rules?


----------



## MacDre (May 29, 2019)

espola said:


> Does taking money for appearing on TV make her a "pro" in international soccer rules?


I get it.  One of my favorite basketball players is very talented but lacks athleticism so, he didn’t do well professionally.  But he’s a YouTube sensation.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (May 29, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> Every player on the US Men's U20 team is a pro.


That's a fun team to watch.


----------



## Janie270 (Jun 3, 2019)

So Olivia has 13 goals in 21 games at u17 as a 2005.  Also noticed that at u12 she scored 10 goals for the TFA boys team.  Here are the top performers for other u17 teams.

Cal Thorns, 11 goals in 28 games. Player is a 2003.
Crossfire, 11 in 22, 2002.
*La Roca, 18 in 27, 2004.*
Lamorinda, 15 in 28, 2003.
Placer, 4 in 15, 2002.
Portland Thorns, 14 in 27, 2002.
Reign, 9 in 27, 2003.
San Jose, 8 in 16, 2002.

Albion, 6 in 25, 2002.
Beach 19 in 32, 2003.
Eagles 8 in 28, 2002.
LA Galaxy, 17 in 29, 2002.
Legends, 14 in 27, 2003.
Premier, 13 in 29, 2002
OC Surf 21 in 31, 2003
Pats, 12 in 33, 2003
RSC, 20 in 34, 2002
*Surf, 24 in 2007, 2003 (and that girl has only started 23 games)
Del Sol, 12 in 12, 2003.*
Blues, 17 in 34, 2003.
Royals, 14 in 32, 2003.

Very few of these totals stand out. I bolded the three that impressed me statistically speaking.  What I found very interesting is that most clubs don't have more than one player with double digit goals.  Not listing all the other clubs, but Solar has a trio with 51, 33 and 31 goals each, all 2003's.  I'm assuming it's bad competition as those three have outscored almost every club in the country by themselves.  Tophat tied Solar and their leading scorer has 25 in 25, also a 2003.  Maybe more of these girls should be playing up like OM.


----------



## dk_b (Jun 3, 2019)

Janie270 said:


> So Olivia has 13 goals in 21 games at u17 as a 2005.  Also noticed that at u12 she scored 10 goals for the TFA boys team.  Here are the top performers for other u17 teams.
> 
> Cal Thorns, 11 goals in 28 games. Player is a 2003.
> Crossfire, 11 in 22, 2002.
> ...


I don't look at youth soccer statistics so is this something readily available or did you compile from game cards or other sources?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 3, 2019)

dk_b said:


> I don't look at youth soccer statistics so is this something readily available or did you compile from game cards or other sources?


Info is readily available on the dA website. But you will have to look team by team or look at the Standings page and follow the links in the Top 15 section to the age groups you’re looking for.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 3, 2019)

I am less impressed by how many goals one has scored and more interested in play making abilities in the field and how challenging the opponent is.  Anyone can score lots of goals with other teammates dishing you the ball or when playing against a lesser quality opponent.  I don’t know that this is the cause for any of the  goals posted on the DA website , just making a point that the top goal scorer is not necessarily the unicorn on the field.


----------



## Janie270 (Jun 4, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> I am less impressed by how many goals one has scored and more interested in play making abilities in the field and how challenging the opponent is.  Anyone can score lots of goals with other teammates dishing you the ball or when playing against a lesser quality opponent.  I don’t know that this is the cause for any of the  goals posted on the DA website , just making a point that the top goal scorer is not necessarily the unicorn on the field.


I don't disagree, but you can also find unicorns in those stats and certainly that is where many national team players get noticed.  Seb Soto had 43 in 25 in his last DA season and of course had 2 today.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 4, 2019)

I had posted previously about how many top scorers there are on the Girls DA lists that have never gotten one call up to a youth camp.  I don’t know how US Soccer explains that because I thought that was the point of the DA- for ID purposes.  But then someone else commented in response that you can’t look at the stats and they don’t really tell the story so can’t have it both ways - either those stats mean something and every top goal scorer in the DA should be at a camp or why keep the stats


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 4, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> I had posted previously about how many top scorers there are on the Girls DA lists that have never gotten one call up to a youth camp.  I don’t know how US Soccer explains that because I thought that was the point of the DA- for ID purposes.  But then someone else commented in response that you can’t look at the stats and they don’t really tell the story so can’t have it both ways - either those stats mean something and every top goal scorer in the DA should be at a camp or why keep the stats


How many are there that didn’t get a call into Camp or into a Training Center?


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 4, 2019)

I am not talking about the “training centers” as those lists are not posted but for the YNT camps:
According to my search - of the top 10 goal scorers
18/19    7 out of  10 no invite
16/17.    3 out of 10 no invite
15.           9 out of 10 no invite


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 4, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> I am not talking about the “training centers” as those lists are not posted but for the YNT camps:
> According to my search - of the top 10 goal scorers
> 18/19    7 out of  10 no invite
> 16/17.    3 out of 10 no invite
> 15.           9 out of 10 no invite


So they do invite some of the Top goal scorers from each age group, they don’t completely ignore those stats. 

Actually, they do email out  the Training Center lists.  They are all over FB right now (check the Beach FB page for one). 

You have access to the invite list for the actual Camps?  For example, do you have the list for the u15 Camp next week, I’d love to see it.  Also,  Your #’s above aren’t accurate either, at least for the 15’s. I don’t have the list but know a few kids on it.


----------



## dk_b (Jun 4, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> So they do invite some of the Top goal scorers from each age group, they don’t completely ignore those stats.
> 
> Actually, they do email out  the Training Center lists.  They are all over FB right now (check the Beach FB page for one).
> 
> You have access to the invite list for the actual Camps?  For example, do you have the list for the u15 Camp next week, I’d love to see it.  Also,  Your #’s above aren’t accurate either, at least for the 15’s. I don’t have the list but know a few kids on it.


Until a camp list is published on US Soccer's website or on Top Drawer, sharing it (at least on a BB like this) would violate the social media policy (based on my read of it anyway, unless it has changed).  And in NorCal, at least when my kid was of Training Center age (I think SoCal may continue at older ages but maybe not), that list was never public except for specific clubs (in the invite letter).  But I don't recall ever seeing any restrictions on that one (I also never recall it ever being shared or people posting about their specific kid)


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 4, 2019)

dk_b said:


> Until a camp list is published on US Soccer's website or on Top Drawer, sharing it (at least on a BB like this) would violate the social media policy (based on my read of it anyway, unless it has changed).  And in NorCal, at least when my kid was of Training Center age (I think SoCal may continue at older ages but maybe not), that list was never public except for specific clubs (in the invite letter).  But I don't recall ever seeing any restrictions on that one (I also never recall it ever being shared or people posting about their specific kid)


That’s kinda my point....you don’t know what you do t know.


----------



## espola (Jun 4, 2019)

dk_b said:


> Until a camp list is published on US Soccer's website or on Top Drawer, sharing it (at least on a BB like this) would violate the social media policy (based on my read of it anyway, unless it has changed).  And in NorCal, at least when my kid was of Training Center age (I think SoCal may continue at older ages but maybe not), that list was never public except for specific clubs (in the invite letter).  But I don't recall ever seeing any restrictions on that one (I also never recall it ever being shared or people posting about their specific kid)


The "social media policy"?  Whose policy is that?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 4, 2019)

espola said:


> The "social media policy"?  Whose policy is that?


US Soccer


----------



## espola (Jun 4, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> US Soccer


Do you have a copy of that?  Or a link to it?


----------



## dk_b (Jun 4, 2019)

espola said:


> The "social media policy"?  Whose policy is that?


Duplicate reply


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 4, 2019)

It is common practice to not post about minors on social media without parents consent.  I can’t cite specific laws but It is not appropriate to just capriciously post private information about others children without parents consent.  The training center lists are not public.  Whether parents chose to post their invite letter or email for bragging rights is on them but that is not a reliable source of information.  

 As I said before a I am not talking about the training centers.  Those are meaningless and a waste of time that goes nowhere.  I am talking strictly about the YNT camps - those lists are posted online on the US Soccer website each time there is a camp and anyone can look that up.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 4, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> It is common practice to not post about minors on social media without parents consent.  I can’t cite specific laws but It is not appropriate to just capriciously post private information about others children without parents consent.  The training center lists are not public.  Whether parents chose to post their invite letter or email for bragging rights is on them but that is not a reliable source of information.
> 
> As I said before a I am not talking about the training centers.  Those are meaningless and a waste of time that goes nowhere.  I am talking strictly about the YNT camps - those lists are posted online on the US Soccer website each time there is a camp and anyone can look that up.


The Training Centers are a waste of time that goes no where?  Is this based on your experience?


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 4, 2019)

Based on our personal experience and the several other players that we know that have participated over the years


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 4, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Based on our personal experience and the several other players that we know that have participated over the years


Times must be changing then......


----------



## dk_b (Jun 4, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Based on our personal experience and the several other players that we know that have participated over the years


I think the framework could be great. And for a while it was really good up our way - not for scouting but for concentrating talent for training on a periodic basis. If US Soccer wanted to implement a national curriculum and reach a broad base (worthwhile since kids develop at different rates), this framework would be ideal.  It would be a way to continue to develop kids who don’t play DA for whatever reason.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 4, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> Times must be changing then......


What are you getting out of it?


----------



## MarkM (Jun 4, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Based on our personal experience and the several other players that we know that have participated over the years


From the training centers, kids are selected to participate in the training center combine.  Kids get camp invites following the combine.  If your kid doesn't perform well in the training centers, then, yes, it goes nowhere because your kid doesn't get invited to the combine.   I'm guessing your kid or the players that you know were not invited to the combine.


----------



## sdb (Jun 4, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> What are you getting out of it?


He's modest


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 4, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> What are you getting out of it?


I’m personally not getting anything out of it.

However, I do know that the things you are saying are just not true.  They may be your opinion but are factually inaccurate.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 4, 2019)

it is true - I do not share details about my player because I like to respect her privacy but we have the experience to back up what I am saying. It doesn’t mean others have the same experience but it is factually correct


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 4, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> it is true - I do not share details about my player because I like to respect her privacy but we have the experience to back up what I am saying. It doesn’t mean others have the same experience but it is factually correct


 I apologize, you are correct.  The facts of your experience are accurate, but to apply those facts as you have in such a broad, definitive manner is what is inaccurate. 

Agree to see things differently.  We can both be right...


----------



## Chalklines (Jun 7, 2019)

Now that shes been paid and labeled a "professional" can the parents take an insurance policy out to protect her potential earnings from injury?


----------



## dk_b (Jun 7, 2019)

Don’t need to be a professional for that - elite college football and basketball players often have them and they are not, cough, pros. 

The question is what would the premium be and what would her future earnings be?  Even if she’s the best player in the world, her income might be a fraction of what one of these baseball 1st round draft picks sign for. Just because she might earn as a pro, it might not be so much as to justify an insurance policy for enormous premium payments.


----------



## oh canada (Jun 10, 2019)

the training centers used to actually be training centers where US coaches would work with all the players on drills etc to help them improve.  players from all clubs were invited.  now they are just an 11v11 scrimmage, with very little input.  and yes, they are the first step in the pipeline for identification for the youth national teams.  but as US soccer prioritizes player choices from DA clubs then those teams become another political pawn at the expense of deserving players.  i.e., players from ECNL clubs who should be considered but are not.  That said, with large % of the players on youth national teams suffering major injuries (eg, torn ACLs), it may be a blessing in disguise for these overlooked players to just focus on their game, school, and development for when it really matters--when they're 18-23yrs old.


----------



## oh canada (Jun 10, 2019)

...and contrast the above with the Canadian EXCEL Centres where u14-u18 players train year round on a regional basis with a national curriculum and from those regional centres, they can be invited to a national centre.  These are not one session for a couple hours once every few months.   They are year-long commitments.  No clubs.


----------



## messy (Jun 10, 2019)

But getting back to the point...an '05 getting 12 goals in 21 games while playing up 3 years(!) (and I know her, she's a midfielder not a forward) is no joke and clearly keeping true to her path of becoming a world-class player. 
Time will tell, as always, but she's on target.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 10, 2019)

People keep saying she is playing up 3 years - she is on a 16/17 team and most of the teams have an equal amount of ‘03’s on those teams so technically she is playing up 2 years not 3 - Like you said, time will tell...

As I have mentioned before, I know several players that were superstars at 12, 13, 14 years old and ended up falling flat or even quitting soccer despite their early success


----------



## sdb (Jun 12, 2019)

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2019/06/us-under16-gnt-kicks-off-new-cycle-with-trip-to-the-netherlands⠀


----------



## sdb (Jun 12, 2019)

For those who don't want to click through:

*U.S. U-16 GNT ROSTER BY POSITION – NETHERLANDS TRAINING CAMP:*
GOALKEEPERS (2): Nona Reason (San Diego Surf; San Clemente; Calif.), Teagan Wy (West Coast FC; Rancho Santa Margarita, Calif.) 

DEFENDERS (6): Elise Evans (San Jose Earthquakes; Redwood City, Calif.), Kayleigh Herr (NC Courage; Cary, NC), Elle Piper (San Jose Earthquakes; San Jose, Calif.), Evelyn Shores (Tophat; Atlanta, Ga.), Maggie Taitano (San Diego Surf; Carlsbad, Calif.), Gisele Thompson (Real So Cal; Studio City, Calif.) 

MIDFIELDERS (5): Sydney Becerra (Solar SC; Lewisville, Tx.), Danielle Davis (FC Fury NY; Port Washington), Juliauna Hayward (Real Colorado; Thornton, Colo.), Peyton Marcisz (San Jose Earthquakes; San Jose), Olivia Moultrie (Portland Thorns FC; Portland, Ore.) 

FORWARDS (7): Ella Eggleston (Lonestar Academy; Austin, Tx.), Mia Minestrella (Beach FC; Redondo Beach, Calif.),  Katherine Rader (Weston FC; Stuart, Fla.), Julia Saunicheva (San Jose Earthquakes; Santa Clara, Calif.), Jaedyn Shaw (FC Dallas; Frisco, Tex.), Alyssa Thompson (Real So Cal; Studio City, Calif.), Alivia Uribe (Reign Academy; Seattle, Wash.)


----------



## MarkM (Jun 12, 2019)

sdb said:


> For those who don't want to click through:
> 
> *U.S. U-16 GNT ROSTER BY POSITION – NETHERLANDS TRAINING CAMP:*
> GOALKEEPERS (2): Nona Reason (San Diego Surf; San Clemente; Calif.), Teagan Wy (West Coast FC; Rancho Santa Margarita, Calif.)
> ...


So not one kid from an ECNL team or non-DA team was selected?  That's lame.


----------



## sdb (Jun 12, 2019)

The article says 20 players were called up, 17 of which are DA.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 12, 2019)

MarkM said:


> So not one kid from an ECNL team or non-DA team was selected?  That's lame.


I’m sure there are some deserving girls on all sides of the Game who didn’t make it, but doesn’t mean the girls that did don’t deserve to be there.


----------



## MarkM (Jun 12, 2019)

sdb said:


> The article says 20 players were called up, 17 of which are DA.


But all the kids listed play for DA clubs.  Though, I admit, the article doesn't appear very accurate - it lists one of the kids as playing for "west coast".


----------



## MarkM (Jun 12, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> I’m sure there are some deserving girls on all sides of the Game who didn’t make it, but doesn’t mean the girls that did don’t deserve to be there.


I'm sure there are a ton of deserving girls.  But when none of the girls come from outside of the DA clubs, that's messed up


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jun 12, 2019)

Why would the program call up girls not in the DA?  Isn't that counterproductive?


----------



## timmyh (Jun 12, 2019)

The goal is to pick the top 20 players.  The coach's jobs depend on it, so I don't think league politics is a primary driver in selections.

To me, it is unsurprising that the kids rising to the top are the ones who are playing and training in a year-round environment and playing against the other teams who are full of players doing the same. That's what happens with the boys and nobody is surprised when rosters are exclusively DA (or foreign) based players.

I realize that some people have ulterior motives for disparaging the rosters, but isn't the ENTIRE purpose of the DA to produce a higher quality player? And isnt the ENTIRE purpose of the YNT program to find and further develop the top players?


----------



## MarkM (Jun 12, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> Why would the program call up girls not in the DA?  Isn't that counterproductive?


Why would it be counterproductive?  Isn't the point of the US National Team to select the best/most talented ladies?  While a vast majority of those ladies play in DA, not all of them are.  Hec, some areas don't have any DA teams.  Seems counterproductive to bypass kids just because they don't play DA, especially when DA is not an option. 

If kids are required to be in DA to make the junior national team, US Soccer should just say so.


----------



## timmyh (Jun 12, 2019)

MarkM said:


> Why would it be counterproductive?  Isn't the point of the US National Team to select the best/most talented ladies?  While a vast majority of those ladies play in DA, not all of them are.  Hec, some areas don't have any DA teams.  Seems counterproductive to bypass kids just because they don't play DA, especially when DA is not an option.
> 
> If kids are required to be in DA to make the junior national team, US Soccer should just say so.


I think it is unfortunately likely that kids not in an area where they can train and play in a DA environment year round are going to fall behind the kids who do have that luxury. At least that is what has increasingly happened on the boys side over the past decade.

Boys aren't being purposefully neglected for YNT selection because they arent in a DA environment, they simply aren't being selected as they aren't reaching as much of their full potential as boys who are. I see no reason the same wont be true on the girls side of things.

I think it's unfortunate in a lot of ways, but it is what it is.


----------



## MarkM (Jun 12, 2019)

timmyh said:


> The goal is to pick the top 20 players.  The coach's jobs depend on it, so I don't think league politics is a primary driver in selections.
> 
> To me, it is unsurprising that the kids rising to the top are the ones who are playing and training in a year-round environment and playing against the other teams who are full of players doing the same. That's what happens with the boys and nobody is surprised when rosters are exclusively DA (or foreign) based players.
> 
> I realize that some people have ulterior motives for disparaging the rosters, but isn't the ENTIRE purpose of the DA to produce a higher quality player? And isnt the ENTIRE purpose of the YNT program to find and further develop the top players?


I'm not disparaging the roster.  I'm disparaging US soccer's selection process.  The purpose of DA is to produce higher quality players, but the results will never be 100%.  There will always be kids outside the system.  If it was 19-1, I would be OK with it.  But 100%?  Come on.  The boy's side is not even 100% DA after more than 10 years, and the boy's side never had to compete with ECNL.


----------



## shales1002 (Jun 12, 2019)

timmyh said:


> The goal is to pick the top 20 players.  The coach's jobs depend on it, so I don't think league politics is a primary driver in selections.
> 
> To me, it is unsurprising that the kids rising to the top are the ones who are playing and training in a year-round environment and playing against the other teams who are full of players doing the same. That's what happens with the boys and nobody is surprised when rosters are exclusively DA (or foreign) based players.
> 
> I realize that some people have ulterior motives for disparaging the rosters, but isn't the ENTIRE purpose of the DA to produce a higher quality player? And isnt the ENTIRE purpose of the YNT program to find and further develop the top players?



This was all about politics. So other elite players don’t train year round? Come on now. Elite players don’t need someone to mandate training.  The powers that be just showed their hand, and gave a lot of players a message.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jun 12, 2019)

MarkM said:


> Why would it be counterproductive?  Isn't the point of the US National Team to select the best/most talented ladies?  While a vast majority of those ladies play in DA, not all of them are.  Hec, some areas don't have any DA teams.  Seems counterproductive to bypass kids just because they don't play DA, especially when DA is not an option.
> 
> If kids are required to be in DA to make the junior national team, US Soccer should just say so.


How does it look if US Soccer creates the DA and then selects a bunch of players from ECNL or a non-acronym league?  You can SAY the job is to pick the best players, but do you think there's a tremendous difference at 15-20?  _"They should just say so..."_ 

Well, that's kind of what they did by creating the DA, no?  Was ECNL broken?


----------



## MarkM (Jun 12, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> How does it look if US Soccer creates the DA and then selects a bunch of players from ECNL or a non-acronym league?  You can SAY the job is to pick the best players, but do you think there's a tremendous difference at 15-20?  _"They should just say so..."_
> 
> Well, that's kind of what they did by creating the DA, no?  Was ECNL broken?


I like DA.  I think a lot of the criticism of DA is ill-founded.  But to answer your question, if US Soccer creates DA, yet they select a players from another league because those players are better, that should tell US Soccer something about DA.  US Soccer shouldn't have to manipulate the results to save face.

I rather US Soccer not "kind of" say something.  If US Soccer is going to make the power move on DA, say it.  ECNL has made it's own BS power moves, so I'm not defending ECNL.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jun 12, 2019)

Fair enough... but the DA has been around for a year.  I think US Soccer will eventually select from the DA exclusively.  Wouldn't you if that was your business?  They can let their girls play high school soccer... but why acquiesce?  You create something and say "this is the path we want you to take... but you don't _really_ have to."  That doesn't make any sense to me.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 12, 2019)

This is the second year of the DA and a I think US Soccer did say they will only call up players from the DA - that’s the message we heard.  I don’t have much confidence in the decisions being made by US Soccer.  Last year They did not do well in the U17 WWC and also ended up with a disappointing result in the U20 WWC.  Yet, they made no changes in the players or the coaches for either age - wondering what everyone will be saying when US gets out of pool play and starts playing against the more competitive teams.  I am looking forward to watching those matches


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 12, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> This is the second year of the DA and a I think US Soccer did say they will only call up players from the DA - that’s the message we heard.  I don’t have much confidence in the decisions being made by US Soccer.  Last year They did not do well in the U17 WWC and also ended up with a disappointing result in the U20 WWC.  Yet, they made no changes in the players or the coaches for either age - wondering what everyone will be saying when US gets out of pool play and starts playing against the more competitive teams.  I am looking forward to watching those matches


Funny, those age groups were in place prior to the DA....


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 12, 2019)

I think DA or not DA and the call ups are all politics, not really about identifying the best players or training them year round- i think it would be more effective if they had longer residential camps with more extensive training and having those groups play in a league together rather than flying around the world playing low level teams -


----------



## oh canada (Jun 12, 2019)

Don't forget that in our little California bubble there are at least two non-DA clubs who have put out top college and world class players through the years.  And as you go east, the number of top clubs playing ECNL outnumber DA clubs.   The boys side is completely different.  There is not a competing league to DA that is just as strong.  I have boys and a girl, so personal experience.

Playing for these teams is US Soccer's last remaining "carrot" for playing girls DA vs. ECNL.  Both leagues have good/bad teams, both leagues attract the same college coaches, both leagues play year round and travel.  As long as they can keep parents thinking that one of these 20 spots is worth giving up high school soccer, futsal leagues, and a more flexible practice schedule, they will fill rosters.  I think parents are beginning to see the charade, however.


----------



## sdb (Jun 12, 2019)

To say that these call-ups are all politics is really doing a disservice to these young athletes. Some of these girls are dominant players playing up 2-3 years, another led the entire DA in scoring in her age group. One keeper is committed to UNC, the other to Cal. Others on the team are committed to Stanford, Duke, UNC. Sure there may be other high quality players who didn't get a call-up for whatever reason, but don't diminish the accomplishments of these girls.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 12, 2019)

I am not diminishing the individual accomplishments of these players- I am talking about the general system and what I have seen over the years - you could make the same statements of a hundred other girls that have just as many accolades,  accomplishments, and commitments to top D1 schools


----------



## sdb (Jun 12, 2019)

You said that "it's all politics." To me that clearly discounts their accomplishments.

I'm curious as what people think is the # of truly elite players in the USA per age group.  Let's take the 72 GDA clubs plus the 94 ECNL clubs. That's 166 clubs playing in the 2 elite leagues. Let's add another 30 clubs not in these leagues who truly have top flight competitive teams. That's 200 clubs. 20 players per team per club. That's 4000 players. Let's add another 500-600 players from miscellaneous. 4500 players. Let's say that the USYNT picks from 2 birth years, so that's about 9,000 players to chose from. How many of these are truly elite? 1%? 5%? I'd say it's closer to 1%, so about 100 truly elite players. USYNT picks 20 from this list of very deserving players. How do they do this? Is there some politics in this? Sure, but any of these 100 merit a spot based on their accomplishments.  I bet all 20 of the players on the list would likely be in the 100 somewhere. I'm also curious as to what people think is the number of athletes in this 100 truly elite player group that have never been seen or scouted.


----------



## shales1002 (Jun 12, 2019)

sdb said:


> To say that these call-ups are all politics is really doing a disservice to these young athletes. Some of these girls are dominant players playing up 2-3 years, another led the entire DA in scoring in her age group. One keeper is committed to UNC, the other to Cal. Others on the team are committed to Stanford, Duke, UNC. Sure there may be other high quality players who didn't get a call-up for whatever reason, but don't diminish the accomplishments of these girls.


No one is diminishing the accomplishments of these players.  They should be proud of what they are achieving.  But it’s pretty obvious the clubs that have been loyal to GDA were rewarded. Not one MVLA player??? Come on now. That’s one of the best teams in the country. Up until this point,  MVLA  consistently has had  at least 2-3 players each camp. The first two keepers committed for this class of 2022, one to USC and the other to UCLA, are both at home and they both play ECNL. This was a message. Period. As one the posters said above, keep it real. It literally affects approximately 60 young ladies.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jun 12, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> This is the second year of the DA and a I think US Soccer did say they will only call up players from the DA - that’s the message we heard.  I don’t have much confidence in the decisions being made by US Soccer.  Last year They did not do well in the U17 WWC and also ended up with a disappointing result in the U20 WWC.  Yet, they made no changes in the players or the coaches for either age - wondering what everyone will be saying when US gets out of pool play and starts playing against the more competitive teams.  I am looking forward to watching those matches


It's the first year... there were no tryouts 2 years ago.


----------



## Justafan (Jun 12, 2019)

sdb said:


> You said that "it's all politics." To me that clearly discounts their accomplishments.
> 
> I'm curious as what people think is the # of truly elite players in the USA per age group.  Let's take the 72 GDA clubs plus the 94 ECNL clubs. That's 166 clubs playing in the 2 elite leagues. Let's add another 30 clubs not in these leagues who truly have top flight competitive teams. That's 200 clubs. 20 players per team per club. That's 4000 players. Let's add another 500-600 players from miscellaneous. 4500 players. Let's say that the USYNT picks from 2 birth years, so that's about 9,000 players to chose from. How many of these are truly elite? 1%? 5%? I'd say it's closer to 1%, so about 100 truly elite players. USYNT picks 20 from this list of very deserving players. How do they do this? Is there some politics in this? Sure, but any of these 100 merit a spot based on their accomplishments.  I bet all 20 of the players on the list would likely be in the 100 somewhere. I'm also curious as to what people think is the number of athletes in this 100 truly elite player group that have never been seen or scouted.


When you know ahead of time that the 20/100 picked will all be DA it’s all politics, not just a little.  If they are transparent about it as someone in a previous post indicated they are, then it’s all good because we are all on notice with respect to making a US national team.  

Now if you’re a regular sports fan with no dd’s in the game and you find out there were a couple of super studs that didn’t get picked because of these politics then you might get pissed off at US Soccer.  But for the rest of us we all know what we’re getting into, just don’t try to convince me there’s nothing rigged with a roulette table that comes up red 100x in a row.


----------



## Justafan (Jun 12, 2019)

And we know the casino hates black.


----------



## Sidekick (Jun 13, 2019)

On point with the whole DA thing not being the only place to find the best players!!!If OM was such a pro, let her try hanging with the big girls at WC and you’ll see she’s right where she belongs, with the younger team!  I truly believe many of the girls are actually more talented than OM that are on the same U16 Girls National Team. She’s talented and would’ve excelled if she stayed with her peers!!


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 13, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> It's the first year... there were no tryouts 2 years ago.


Not sure where you were but my DD was at DA tryouts two years ago before the first season started- where do you think those teams came from?


----------



## DJB (Jun 13, 2019)

Sidekick said:


> On point with the whole DA thing not being the only place to find the best players!!!If OM was such a pro, let her try hanging with the big girls at WC and you’ll see she’s right where she belongs, with the younger team!  I truly believe many of the girls are actually more talented than OM that are on the same U16 Girls National Team. She’s talented and would’ve excelled if she stayed with her peers!!


I am not sure why you are so upset about OM...did she do something directly to you?

I have had the pleasure of watching her train numerous times with top level (D1 college) 99/00 aged girls.  She more than holds her own over the course of a 2 hour practice even though she was giving up 3-5 inches and 20-40 lbs on many of these athletes.  In fact, I would argue she was one of the top 1-3 girls in the training sessions.  She is a very talented player and I am glad they put her on the age appropriate team to get a sense of where she stands.  Why don't we let her continue to develop on the path she and her parents decided is right for her.  For the future of US womens soccer I hope she develops into the best player in the world.


----------



## espola (Jun 13, 2019)

DJB said:


> I am not sure why you are so upset about OM...did she do something directly to you?
> 
> I have had the pleasure of watching her train numerous times with top level (D1 college) 99/00 aged girls.  She more than holds her own over the course of a 2 hour practice even though she was giving up 3-5 inches and 20-40 lbs on many of these athletes.  In fact, I would argue she was one of the top 1-3 girls in the training sessions.  She is a very talented player and I am glad they put her on the age appropriate team to get a sense of where she stands.  Why don't we let her continue to develop on the path she and her parents decided is right for her.  For the future of US womens soccer I hope she develops into the best player in the world.


"...hope..."


----------



## espola (Jun 13, 2019)

I'm sure Nike is happy with how they spent their money, given the unprecedented publicity.  However, consider what could have been done for that money had it been spent to pump up training programs for a team, not just a single player.  Let's say a set of youth teams, loosely based on international age boundaries (U-20 and below), one team for each of the USYSA regions, with all travel, room, and board costs covered for every player (and a fund available for parents who can't afford to support their end).


----------



## MakeAPlay (Jun 13, 2019)

espola said:


> I'm sure Nike is happy with how they spent their money, given the unprecedented publicity.  However, consider what could have been done for that money had it been spent to pump up training programs for a team, not just a single player.  Let's say a set of youth teams, loosely based on international age boundaries (U-20 and below), one team for each of the USYSA regions, with all travel, room, and board costs covered for every player (and a fund available for parents who can't afford to support their end).


Because that would be good for soccer not necessarily Nike.  At the end of the day it will all come out in the wash.  You get everyone excited about Freddy Adu and then the Christian Pulisics and Wes McKinnies come along who actually get there by following the process and grinding.

Who knows she might become Lindsey Horan or she could be Freddy Adu.  Most likely is something in the middle like a Mal Pugh.  A talented player that was pushed onto the national team too early.

I wish her luck.


----------



## RocketFile (Jun 13, 2019)

Justafan said:


> When you know ahead of time that the 20/100 picked will all be DA it’s all politics, not just a little.  If they are transparent about it as someone in a previous post indicated they are, then it’s all good because we are all on notice with respect to making a US national team.
> 
> Now if you’re a regular sports fan with no dd’s in the game and you find out there were a couple of super studs that didn’t get picked because of these politics then you might get pissed off at US Soccer.  But for the rest of us we all know what we’re getting into, just don’t try to convince me there’s nothing rigged with a roulette table that comes up red 100x in a row.


I don't think it is politics as much as strategy.

After 10 years of boys DA, US Soccer is starting to reap the benefits with an historically strong U20 team of 100% soccer professionals who look capable of materially changing the competitiveness of US soccer by the 2026 world cup. Despite the whining and hand wringing about DA over the years, it has fulfilled it's primary purpose which was to develop top players and create a pyramid where US Soccer can efficiently identify those players.

Girls DA was presumably set up with the same objectives in mind. A league like ECNL, while really successful and the home to lots of top girls, acts counter to that objective. ECNL makes identifying the top girls more difficult, not less difficult. Why would US Soccer want to support ECNL if it acts counter to it's mission?

Sure, ECNL has at least a bunch of girls who would rank among the top players today. But by offering those players spots US Soccer is essentially sanctioning ECNL as a top league and creating a less efficient ID mechanism for itself. If DA is successful, and it appears it will be, there will be fewer and fewer top players in ECNL over the next 5 years and there will be much less debate about why US Soccer select only DA players for the national teams, just like there is very little debate on the boys side.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jun 13, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Not sure where you were but my DD was at DA tryouts two years ago before the first season started- where do you think those teams came from?


You're counting this year... which just happened.  The first year those girls were grandfathered in.


----------



## timbuck (Jun 13, 2019)

I think it's pretty clear --  If you have Youth National Team aspirations-  You need to play DA.
The chances of making a YNT are pretty slim.  As stated above, there are probably a few hundred girls in each age group that can play at that level.  Selecting the best 20-30 is not easy.  Politics, luck, etc will have a lot to do with who gets picked.
No proof here, but here's a likely example:
2 players play the same position.  Both are excellent players.  1 of them has been in the DA for 2 years.  Her coach is a loyal US Soccer supporter.  The other played ECNL last year and just joined the DA this year.  Her coach is a known a-hole. And her club gives US Soccer a hard time all the time.
Who do you think they are going to select?


----------



## espola (Jun 13, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> I don't think it is politics as much as strategy.
> 
> After 10 years of boys DA, US Soccer is starting to reap the benefits with an historically strong U20 team of 100% soccer professionals who look capable of materially changing the competitiveness of US soccer by the 2026 world cup. Despite the whining and hand wringing about DA over the years, it has fulfilled it's primary purpose which was to develop top players and create a pyramid where US Soccer can efficiently identify those players.
> 
> ...


It took 10+ years on the boys side to get a good U-20 team.  How good would that U-20 team have been without the DA intrusion?


----------



## MarkM (Jun 13, 2019)

espola said:


> It took 10+ years on the boys side to get a good U-20 team.  How good would that U-20 team have been without the DA intrusion?


Adams and Sargent didn't even suit up.  McKennie and Pulsic are only a few months out of this group.  There are a ton of other young promising players that DA programs have been placing abroad, including those that played with the U20s.   You can keep your head in the sand, but the depth of young American talent has rapidly increased.   You can also argue that DA doesn't work for girls, but DA gives boys a semblance of a professional pipeline that is starting to payoff.


----------



## outside! (Jun 13, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Most likely is something in the middle like a Mal Pugh.  A talented player that was pushed onto the national team too early.


I don't believe she went to the Women's National Team too early. She scored goals in the Olympics and the World Cup. She can play at the level of the WNT and will develop more by playing professionally and on the WNT than she ever would playing in college. UCLA is  a great team, but they are not at the level of the WNT (although they might be close if they played the same competition).


----------



## espola (Jun 13, 2019)

MarkM said:


> Adams and Sargent didn't even suit up.  McKennie and Pulsic are only a few months out of this group.  There are a ton of other young promising players that DA programs have been placing abroad, including those that played with the U20s.   You can keep your head in the sand, but the depth of young American talent has rapidly increased.   You can also argue that DA doesn't work for girls, but DA gives boys a semblance of a professional pipeline that is starting to payoff.


"...DA programs have been placing abroad..."  

 Tell us more.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Jun 13, 2019)

outside! said:


> I don't believe she went to the Women's National Team too early. She scored goals in the Olympics and the World Cup. She can play at the level of the WNT and will develop more by playing professionally and on the WNT than she ever would playing in college. UCLA is  a great team, but they are not at the level of the WNT (although they might be close if they played the same competition).


Has she developed?  I can tell you that Fleming is a better player now than she was 3 years ago post World Cup and Olympics.  Your daughter could have scored against Thailand there striker wasn’t even a regular starter at Cal.  She is only on the team because of marketing.  How many NWSL goals has she scored?  Have you ever asked yourself why she really is on the team?  Look at her stats after two full seasons (and part of a third). The actual numbers will mess with your head.

Hell what has Alex Morgan done recently in the pros.  The US has the advantage that the talent pool is so deep that getting the best players doesn’t matter as long as you get most of them right.


----------



## MarkM (Jun 13, 2019)

espola said:


> "...DA programs have been placing abroad..."
> 
> Tell us more.


The DA is not a professional league - duh.  They are moving to top tier pro teams abroad.  If I said they were all over the MLS, you would have crapped on MLS.  Kids were not having the early success abroad as they are now - certainly not in the numbers were are seeing.  If you want to add some information, please do.  Otherwise, can I borrow your time machine?


----------



## espola (Jun 13, 2019)

MarkM said:


> The DA is not a professional league - duh.  They are moving to top tier pro teams abroad.  If I said they were all over the MLS, you would have crapped on MLS.  Kids were not having the early success abroad as they are now - certainly not in the numbers were are seeing.  If you want to add some information, please do.  Otherwise, can I borrow your time machine?


I was looking for more info on your "placing" inference.


----------



## MarkM (Jun 13, 2019)

espola said:


> I was looking for more info on your "placing" inference.


It wasn't an inference; it was a statement.  Look it up.   And look up the word inference so you know how to use it correctly.


----------



## espola (Jun 13, 2019)

MarkM said:


> It wasn't an inference; it was a statement.  Look it up.   And look up the word inference so you know how to use it correctly.


You posted it.  You look it up.

Swap "inference" for "implication", if you must (although the meaning seems to have gotten across).  Start from there.


----------



## espola (Jun 13, 2019)

timbuck said:


> I think it's pretty clear --  If you have Youth National Team aspirations-  You need to play DA.
> The chances of making a YNT are pretty slim.  As stated above, there are probably a few hundred girls in each age group that can play at that level.  Selecting the best 20-30 is not easy.  Politics, luck, etc will have a lot to do with who gets picked.
> No proof here, but here's a likely example:
> 2 players play the same position.  Both are excellent players.  1 of them has been in the DA for 2 years.  Her coach is a loyal US Soccer supporter.  The other played ECNL last year and just joined the DA this year.  Her coach is a known a-hole. And her club gives US Soccer a hard time all the time.
> Who do you think they are going to select?


How is a kid from Valley Center whose family can't even afford team fees and expenses (all provided by a neighbor teammate's parents who paid for everything, including tournament travel) and who was the best youth GK I ever saw going to get a connection to DA?  Further note - in HS his coach usually had him playing center mid.

DA has limited vision.


----------



## Justafan (Jun 13, 2019)

timbuck said:


> I think it's pretty clear --  If you have Youth National Team aspirations-  You need to play DA.
> The chances of making a YNT are pretty slim.  As stated above, there are probably a few hundred girls in each age group that can play at that level.  Selecting the best 20-30 is not easy.  Politics, luck, etc will have a lot to do with who gets picked.
> No proof here, but here's a likely example:
> 2 players play the same position.  Both are excellent players.  1 of them has been in the DA for 2 years.  Her coach is a loyal US Soccer supporter.  The other played ECNL last year and just joined the DA this year.  Her coach is a known a-hole. And her club gives US Soccer a hard time all the time.
> Who do you think they are going to select?


The DA player.


----------



## RocketFile (Jun 13, 2019)

Here are some very recent American teenagers going from DA to Europe...

Sebastian Soto - Surf/Real to Hanover
Timothy Weah - Red Bulls to PSG/Celtic
Alex Mendez - Galaxy to Freiburg
Uly llanez  - Galaxy to Wolfsburg
Richie Ledezma - Real to PSV Einhoven
Tyler Adams - Red Bulls to RB Leipzig
Josh Sargent - IMG to Weder Bremen
Weston McKennie - FC Dallas to Schalke
Chris Richards - FC Dallas to Bayern


----------



## Justafan (Jun 13, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> I don't think it is politics as much as strategy.
> 
> Girls DA was presumably set up with the same objectives in mind. A league like ECNL, while really successful and the home to lots of top girls, acts counter to that objective. ECNL makes identifying the top girls more difficult, not less difficult. Why would US Soccer want to support ECNL if it acts counter to it's mission?
> 
> Sure, ECNL has at least a bunch of girls who would rank among the top players today. But by offering those players spots US Soccer is essentially sanctioning ECNL as a top league and creating a less efficient ID mechanism for itself.


ALL OF THIS IS POLITICS!!




RocketFile said:


> If DA is successful, and it appears it will be, there will be fewer and fewer top players in ECNL over the next 5 years and there will be much less debate about why US Soccer select only DA players for the national teams, just like there is very little debate on the boys side.


And if my aunt had a package she’d be my uncle!


----------



## espola (Jun 13, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> Here are some very recent American teenagers going from DA to Europe...
> 
> Sebastian Soto - Surf/Real to Hanover
> Timothy Weah - Red Bulls to PSG/Celtic
> ...


Would any of them have gone to Europe without DA's help?  Whatever that is?


----------



## RocketFile (Jun 13, 2019)

Justafan said:


> ALL OF THIS IS POLITICS!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe it makes you feel better to call it politics. I don't really care what you want to call it. 

I'm pointing out that US Soccer's "politics" make sense strategically if they want over the long term to create a talent pyramid where they can develop and identify the top kids - that is what DA is, whether you like it or not. It would be counterproductive for them to promote an alternative to the strategy they have created and are executing, no?

I get that it may be frustrating for ECNL, but hasn't this sort of been obvious ever since girls DA was launched? 

It aint going to change.

And just like on the boys side, DA will be where 90% of the highest quality girls end up. Just give it a few years.


----------



## RocketFile (Jun 13, 2019)

espola said:


> Would any of them have gone to Europe without DA's help?  Whatever that is?


Hard to say. Certainly they are all really talented kids. I would suspect that, despite its many imperfections, DA contributed very meaningfully to their development, progress and success. And I would also guess that this trend is growing and accelerating.


----------



## outside! (Jun 13, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Has she developed?  I can tell you that Fleming is a better player now than she was 3 years ago post World Cup and Olympics.  Your daughter could have scored against Thailand there striker wasn’t even a regular starter at Cal.  She is only on the team because of marketing.  How many NWSL goals has she scored?  Have you ever asked yourself why she really is on the team?  Look at her stats after two full seasons (and part of a third). The actual numbers will mess with your head.
> 
> Hell what has Alex Morgan done recently in the pros.  The US has the advantage that the talent pool is so deep that getting the best players doesn’t matter as long as you get most of them right.


I am just saying that for a player who's ambition is to be a professional soccer player, taking the chance when it is there will provide a better environment to develop than the current US college game. How much they develop is up to the player. College will still be there when the body won't allow soccer anymore. I do agree that Pugh has not quite lived up to the hype, but she is a good player.

I also agree that my daughter could have scored against Thailand, but so could most decent college players. I think Thailand would have a hard time against many D1 teams.


----------



## espola (Jun 13, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> Maybe it makes you feel better to call it politics. I don't really care what you want to call it.
> 
> I'm pointing out that US Soccer's "politics" make sense strategically if they want over the long term to create a talent pyramid where they can develop and identify the top kids - that is what DA is, whether you like it or not. It would be counterproductive for them to promote an alternative to the strategy they have created and are executing, no?
> 
> ...


DA is too narrow and the local clubs who could be their potential feeders for diamonds in the rough don't trust a program which will just take their best players without compensation or recognition.


----------



## RocketFile (Jun 13, 2019)

espola said:


> DA is too narrow and the local clubs who could be their potential feeders for diamonds in the rough don't trust a program which will just take their best players without compensation or recognition.


Not sure what you mean by too narrow, but I agree it is imperfect. Ideally there are more clearly defined pathways up the pyramid so smaller programs with fewer resources can move their best players up the ladder. Seems like we are headed in that direction with solidarity and transfer payment changes. Still a long way to go, but the US in challenging as we are so spread out geographically.


----------



## Justafan (Jun 13, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> Maybe it makes you feel better to call it politics. I don't really care what you want to call it.
> 
> I'm pointing out that US Soccer's "politics" make sense strategically if they want over the long term to create a talent pyramid where they can develop and identify the top kids - that is what DA is, whether you like it or not. It would be counterproductive for them to promote an alternative to the strategy they have created and are executing, no?
> 
> ...


No it’s not about making me feel better, it’s just what it is plain and simple.  I don’t have a problem of any kind whatsoever over what strategy they choose to go after their competitor and what you say about their strategy makes total sense.  Shoot, if I were DA I’d do the same thing.

In fact, I know how they can put the dagger in ECNL.  You pick those 100 top girls and put them in training camps during the high school season and let the rest play high school.  That way, if you are going to miss high school, at least you know you are on a path to the national team.  

I disagree with your 90% figure based on the current landscape.  It seems more DA clubs are going ECNL than vice versa, at least for now.


----------



## espola (Jun 13, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> Not sure what you mean by too narrow, but I agree it is imperfect. Ideally there are more clearly defined pathways up the pyramid so smaller programs with fewer resources can move their best players up the ladder. Seems like we are headed in that direction with solidarity and transfer payment changes. Still a long way to go, but the US in challenging as we are so spread out geographically.


No MLS team in SD to support a free DA program is one place to start.  We can probably add a dozen other cities with credible youth soccer history and no easy access to DA before the day is out.


----------



## RocketFile (Jun 13, 2019)

Justafan said:


> No it’s not about making me feel better, it’s just what it is plain and simple.  I don’t have a problem of any kind whatsoever over what strategy they choose to go after their competitor and what you say about their strategy makes total sense.  Shoot, if I were DA I’d do the same thing.
> 
> In fact, I know how they can put the dagger in ECNL.  You pick those 100 top girls and put them in training camps during the high school season and let the rest play high school.  That way, if you are going to miss high school, at least you know you are on a path to the national team.
> 
> I disagree with your 90% figure based on the current landscape.  It seems more DA clubs are going ECNL than vice versa, at least for now.


Got it. My 90% may take a few years, maybe even five years. This landscape changes fast and every single girl currently in DA and ECNL will have aged out in 5 years.


----------



## RocketFile (Jun 13, 2019)

espola said:


> No MLS team in SD to support a free DA program is one place to start.  We can probably add a dozen other cities with credible youth soccer history and no easy access to DA before the day is out.





espola said:


> No MLS team in SD to support a free DA program is one place to start.  We can probably add a dozen other cities with credible youth soccer history and no easy access to DA before the day is out.


Solidarity and transfer payments will eventually provide liquidity to the US youth soccer market (at least on the boys side) and, while it will likely develop in fits and starts, I think it is also likely that it expands ID into new territories, expands free DA programs and facilitates movement up the pyramid for top players.


----------



## Justafan (Jun 13, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> Got it. My 90% may take a few years, maybe even five years. This landscape changes fast and every single girl currently in DA and ECNL will have aged out in 5 years.


Very well could be. I’m telling you If  DA let those non-100 girls play high school that would be the end of ECNL.  That is the only thing keeping ECNL in the game, especially in areas where high school sports is a community event.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Jun 13, 2019)

There is irony, in that it's actually the clubs who ultimately have the power on the girl's side. If the big 5 or 6 So Cal Clubs pulled out of DA they could literally sink it overnight. The challenge is 1. Do they want to? 2. Do they have the fortitude?


----------



## MarkM (Jun 13, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> Here are some very recent American teenagers going from DA to Europe...
> 
> Sebastian Soto - Surf/Real to Hanover
> Timothy Weah - Red Bulls to PSG/Celtic
> ...


Leaving out Steffen to Man City?  Pulsic to Chelsea? Horvath to Club Brugge?  The list is so freakin' long . . . https://www.goal.com/en-us/lists/usmnt-top-50-americans-in-the-2022-world-cup-player-pool/461pfr5dkbk11snj50dx47jv5#1h0097eisp8as1lzgu1c65g3x0


----------



## timbuck (Jun 13, 2019)

espola said:


> How is a kid from Valley Center whose family can't even afford team fees and expenses (all provided by a neighbor teammate's parents who paid for everything, including tournament travel) and who was the best youth GK I ever saw going to get a connection to DA?  Further note - in HS his coach usually had him playing center mid.
> 
> DA has limited vision.


Unfortunately, proximity is also an important factor.   There might also be a super talented player in North Dakota. But he/she isn’t gonna get a lot of exposure. 
How did 2 siblings from Compton become so dominant at tennis?


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 14, 2019)

The Outlaw said:


> You're counting this year... which just happened.  The first year those girls were grandfathered in.


They were grandfathered in from where?  Yes, some were ECNL teams that moved into being DA teams but there were several new clubs that were not ECNL and there was a lot of movement on rosters of the ECNL clubs as there were other options- there were tryouts and there were teams formed and this is the conclusion of the second year of the DA even if you want to ignore that fact


----------



## oh canada (Jun 14, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> Got it. My 90% may take a few years, maybe even five years. This landscape changes fast and every single girl currently in DA and ECNL will have aged out in 5 years.


nah - women don't have a similar upside as men to justify 4x/week practice requirements and US Soccer controlling parent/student decisions re playing high school soccer, playing other sports, playing futsal, and missing significant amounts of class time.  Unless in your 5 years the women's pro league has transformed into a profitable operation with a TV deal (they lost their last one), and a base salary of $75K-100K.  Or, if girls DA becomes fully funded for many of the girls programs just like on the boys side.  I don't see either of those scenarios occurring anytime soon.

And as far as Pugh, you can read interviews with her and it's clear she is not happy and regrets her decision to forego college.  She'll never say that outright, but you can read between the lines.  Being a pro athlete can be a lonely life, especially for women...especially for 18 year old girls.  Everyone always says, oh you can go back to college any time...true, but do you want to be the female Vince Vaughn version in Old School at UCLA or attend when you are the same age as 95 percent of the student body...especially as a female.

now for some Advil and water as my Raptors victory hangover is intense, but oh so worth it!!!


----------



## timbuck (Jun 14, 2019)

Vince Vaughn seemed to have a really good time in Old School.  Heck-  he got snoop to play at a house party.  And he owned 6 speaker cities.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Jun 14, 2019)

oh canada said:


> nah - women don't have a similar upside as men to justify 4x/week practice requirements and US Soccer controlling parent/student decisions re playing high school soccer, playing other sports, playing futsal, and missing significant amounts of class time.  Unless in your 5 years the women's pro league has transformed into a profitable operation with a TV deal (they lost their last one), and a base salary of $75K-100K.  Or, if girls DA becomes fully funded for many of the girls programs just like on the boys side.  I don't see either of those scenarios occurring anytime soon.
> 
> And as far as Pugh, you can read interviews with her and it's clear she is not happy and regrets her decision to forego college.  She'll never say that outright, but you can read between the lines.  Being a pro athlete can be a lonely life, especially for women...especially for 18 year old girls.  Everyone always says, oh you can go back to college any time...true, but do you want to be the female Vince Vaughn version in Old School at UCLA or attend when you are the same age as 95 percent of the student body...especially as a female.
> 
> now for some Advil and water as my Raptors victory hangover is intense, but oh so worth it!!!


She comes to a lot of the games and tells the girls that she wishes that she had played with them.  The money was there for her and Jill put her in a tough spot.  She is a sweet kid and could have really benefited from playing with Fleming.  The few scrimmages that she played in she really blended well with her and with Sanchez, Rodriguez and Mace it could have been special.  Oh well.


----------



## oh canada (Jun 14, 2019)

Fleming is doing it the right way.  Jordyn Huitema (Canadian 18yt old striker who signed with PSG this year) should have followed her lead.

However, like Fleming, she did play multiple sports through high school, something else that girls here in the US are no longer doing....“Growing up we all played three or four sports until we were 15 or 16, until we had to choose a direction to go with our careers,” Huitema said. “I’d say when I hit about 14 or 15 was when I had to choose between hockey and soccer. I was kind of torn on both, I didn’t know what direction I wanted to go, I loved them both.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Jun 14, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Fleming is doing it the right way.  Jordyn Huitema (Canadian 18yt old striker who signed with PSG this year) should have followed her lead.
> 
> However, like Fleming, she did play multiple sports through high school, something else that girls here in the US are no longer doing....“Growing up we all played three or four sports until we were 15 or 16, until we had to choose a direction to go with our careers,” Huitema said. “I’d say when I hit about 14 or 15 was when I had to choose between hockey and soccer. I was kind of torn on both, I didn’t know what direction I wanted to go, I loved them both.


She is such an all around well balanced and amazing young women with a wonderful and supportive family.  She had her old national team coach trying to pressure her to go pro early but she didn’t care.  She is a special person.


----------



## Dos Equis (Jun 14, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> She is such an all around well balanced and amazing young women with a wonderful and supportive family.  She had her old national team coach trying to pressure her to go pro early but she didn’t care.  She is a special person.


You hit on an important concept here at the core of the dilemma posed by this thread - becoming a well-balanced person.  OM is an amazing soccer player, and may indeed be an amazing kid, but the development challenge she faces personally is a lot greater than the one she faces athletically.  Becoming a well-balanced person who can thrive, with or without soccer, is more important in the long term than making the national team in the next 5 years.  Will her unusual path provide her with an environment that facilitates that type of growth? I really do not know.

I am stunned by many of the amazing young women my daughter plays with. Not by the sacrifices they have made for athletics, but by their character, confidence and their grace. That is the common ground we share — our daughters being a member of that special group.


----------



## Chalklines (Jun 22, 2019)

https://www.espn.com/soccer/club/united-states/660/blog/post/3873263/freddy-adu-exclusive-im-not-ready-to-give-it-up


----------



## Chalklines (Jun 22, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> https://www.espn.com/soccer/club/united-states/660/blog/post/3873263/freddy-adu-exclusive-im-not-ready-to-give-it-up


heres some good takes from the article where OM can learn.

"Still, he couldn't shake the feeling that Adu's efforts were almost exclusively confined to taking the ball and putting it in the net. He turned to Jenkins. "It doesn't bother you that he doesn't work that hard on the field?" he asked. Jenkins shook his head. "He's only working as hard as he has to."

""He was touted before it was deserved, and before he was ready to handle it," said Jason Kreis, who was Adu's teammate and then his manager at Real Salt Lake in 2007, and now coaches the U.S. U-23 team. "He couldn't cope with it. He believed what he was reading. He believed he was worth all the money he was being paid."

The articles a good one. It spoke about how lazy Adu became on and off the field from all the hype generated at a young age. 

One cant forget you need to always work to stay on top.


----------



## espola (Jun 22, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> heres some good takes from the article where OM can learn.
> 
> "Still, he couldn't shake the feeling that Adu's efforts were almost exclusively confined to taking the ball and putting it in the net. He turned to Jenkins. "It doesn't bother you that he doesn't work that hard on the field?" he asked. Jenkins shook his head. "He's only working as hard as he has to."
> 
> ...


I was at the US-Sweden game at USD when Adu got his first cap.  He came in as a late sub and quickly earned a yellow card for a harsh foul.  I don't remember anything more about his performance there.


----------



## full90 (Jun 22, 2019)

I’d argue tho that hard work is not a legitimate knock against OM. She seems to be an extremely hard worker. It actually seems I’d argue the other way. She’s so single minded at the expense of all else and it seems as if no one (parents, coaches, advisors) are helping her by teaching balance and well roundedness. 

If it’s my kid and they are super gifted and other worldly in focus and single mindedness I’d be working extra hard to rein her in. How many examples do we need to see of prodigies in every walk of life whose entire identity is _______ and even if they reach the pinnacle of whatever they are broken and hurting people. That’s my take. They are putting her in this spot so early for what gain? Not that much money and a path to pro that would be open to her anyways. But the parents seem all about it. I’d be fighting hard for normal and as much balance of being a kid with a unicorn ability cuz we all know how fleeting childhood is and how long and painful life is if your foundation is shaky and identity is in something that can end at any moment and will end before you know it.


----------



## Chalklines (Jul 4, 2019)




----------



## R2564952 (Jul 12, 2019)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzoDDB0AgQU/?igshid=1w6mav1vfqn4o
This is a 1.1x fast forward video of Olivia


----------



## Soccer43 (Jul 12, 2019)

More interesting to see how she plays in a game under pressure with opponents in her face pushing and pulling on her and knocking  her off the ball and needing to make decisions in the heat of the moment.


----------



## RocketFile (Jul 13, 2019)

I think she is amazing and has a big future. Nothing but impressed here.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Jul 13, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> I think she is amazing and has a big future. Nothing but impressed here.


I agree. The kid is more than a talent. Her work ethic and drive will be the determining factor in her long term success.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jul 13, 2019)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> I agree. The kid is more than a talent. Her work ethic and drive will be the determining factor in her long term success.


Please elaborate on what you really know about her? Have you seen her train? Or play? I have.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Jul 14, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Please elaborate on what you really know about her? Have you seen her train? Or play? I have.


Why? Who are you?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 14, 2019)

RocketFile said:


> I think she is amazing and has a big future. Nothing but impressed here.


She is the type of player that US Soccer is looking for.  Totally focused on the prize.  100% loyalty to the sport.  My dd played against her for two years during practices at Blues every week when she was 9 and 10.  Very committed, confident and determined player back then.  Props to her and the fam   I just hope US Soccer adds a little "social sugar" to the team........


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Jul 17, 2019)

I got a chuckle out of this when I saw it stuck to all of the car windshields at Albion Cup.


----------



## timbuck (Jul 17, 2019)

Just when you think you've seen it all.


----------



## Dos Equis (Jul 17, 2019)

Watched the Thorns/Pride game with my daughter, who asked after lineups were announced "Where is OM, the 13-year old who turned Pro, I thought she was on the Thorns?"  When I commented that I believe her pro contract is with Nike, and she is not necessarily being paid by or playing with the Thorns, she looked at me like I had two heads and said "What is the point of turning pro if you are not playing in the pros?"

As for the game, it was very exciting, a surprisingly entertaining game to watch in the second half, with some very good football (after a pretty uneven start for Orlando).  I hope OM makes it out there quickly, but the speed of play and often physical nature of the game are a combination a non-fully developed athlete should not be exposed to.  For elite girls, I would expect 16-17 to be the earliest their bodies could be ready for the rigors of the NWSL.


----------



## messy (Jul 17, 2019)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> I got a chuckle out of this when I saw it stuck to all of the car windshields at Albion Cup.
> 
> View attachment 5083


https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2431740/


----------



## Sidekick (Jul 19, 2019)

full90 said:


> I’d argue tho that hard work is not a legitimate knock against OM. She seems to be an extremely hard worker. It actually seems I’d argue the other way. She’s so single minded at the expense of all else and it seems as if no one (parents, coaches, advisors) are helping her by teaching balance and well roundedness.
> 
> If it’s my kid and they are super gifted and other worldly in focus and single mindedness I’d be working extra hard to rein her in. How many examples do we need to see of prodigies in every walk of life whose entire identity is _______ and even if they reach the pinnacle of whatever they are broken and hurting people. That’s my take. They are putting her in this spot so early for what gain? Not that much money and a path to pro that would be open to her anyways. But the parents seem all about it. I’d be fighting hard for normal and as much balance of being a kid with a unicorn ability cuz we all know how fleeting childhood is and how long and painful life is if your foundation is shaky and identity is in something that can end at any moment and will end before you know it.



Her attitude is obvious!! She really believes she’s better than the girls she practices with! Mommy and daddy have made her ego what it is and they need to figure out a way to burst that bubble head of an ego before it’s too late!  I don’t know for a fact but heard the only honesty she got from a coach was at the Blues. Apparently, mommy and daddy disagreed so they took her to another club willing to do what her parents demanded! Very sad!!  So much talent with such little guidance that  benefits her besides the money part!


----------



## Dos Equis (Jul 19, 2019)

Sidekick said:


> Her attitude is obvious!! She really believes she’s better than the girls she practices with! Mommy and daddy have made her ego what it is and they need to figure out a way to burst that bubble head of an ego before it’s too late!  I don’t know for a fact but heard the only honesty she got from a coach was at the Blues. Apparently, mommy and daddy disagreed so they took her to another club willing to do what her parents demanded! Very sad!!  So much talent with such little guidance that  benefits her besides the money part!


If you do not know for a fact, you might consider tempering your words about a 13-year old.  As for her parents, she would not be unique in the world of club soccer having parents who think they know best -- that is more the norm.  Nor would it be the first time a Blues coach (or any other club soccer coach, for that matter) claimed to be the only honest coach in soccer.


----------



## Chalklines (Jul 19, 2019)

Sidekick said:


> Her attitude is obvious!! She really believes she’s better than the girls she practices with! Mommy and daddy have made her ego what it is and they need to figure out a way to burst that bubble head of an ego before it’s too late!  I don’t know for a fact but heard the only honesty she got from a coach was at the Blues. Apparently, mommy and daddy disagreed so they took her to another club willing to do what her parents demanded! Very sad!!  So much talent with such little guidance that  benefits her besides the money part!


Spoken like a true parent waiving their check book at the coach. 

You understand this is youth sports, right? All it takes is a small group of ego bruised parents to complain and threaten to leave when a star shits on their kids playing time. 

It's simple math. Bench the new kid or lose 2-3 core members of the teams success. OM parents I'm sure have had a tremendous time navigating the politics of club soccer. If she's as advertised her parents made a great decision moving into a professional environment.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Jul 19, 2019)

[QUOTE=" I don’t know for a fact but heard the only honesty she got from a coach was at the Blues. Apparently, mommy and daddy disagreed so they took her to another club [/QUOTE]

Lol. What was the wisdom. She needs to be able to kick the ball 70 yds and throw the ball to the back post?


----------



## outside! (Jul 19, 2019)

Dos Equis said:


> Watched the Thorns/Pride game...
> 
> As for the game, it was very exciting, a surprisingly entertaining game to watch in the second half, with some very good football (after a pretty uneven start for Orlando).


I watched it as well. Orlando would have won without the dreadful mistakes by their defense and keeper.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 19, 2019)

Sidekick said:


> Her attitude is obvious!! She really believes she’s better than the girls she practices with! Mommy and daddy have made her ego what it is and they need to figure out a way to burst that bubble head of an ego before it’s too late!  I don’t know for a fact but heard the only honesty she got from a coach was at the Blues. Apparently, mommy and daddy disagreed so they took her to another club willing to do what her parents demanded! Very sad!!  So much talent with such little guidance that  benefits her besides the money part!


I think therefore I am.  This is the attitude of champions.  I tell my player when she’s on the field to “lean back and strut” and never let them see you sweat.  Why do you have a problem with confidence and what are teaching your player?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 19, 2019)

Sidekick said:


> Her attitude is obvious!! She really believes she’s better than the girls she practices with! Mommy and daddy have made her ego what it is and they need to figure out a way to burst that bubble head of an ego before it’s too late!  I don’t know for a fact but heard the only honesty she got from a coach was at the Blues. Apparently, mommy and daddy disagreed so they took her to another club willing to do what her parents demanded! Very sad!!  So much talent with such little guidance that  benefits her besides the money part!


Except she left Blues for a bigger challenge of playing with Boys at TFA, then moved to Beach to play up in age (‘03) in a different system.  

My DD has traveled with her and had nothing but nice things to say about her on and off the field.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jul 19, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I think therefore I am.  This is the attitude of champions.  I tell my player when she’s on the field to “lean back and strut” and never let them see you sweat.  Why do you have a problem with confidence and what are teaching your player?


I don’t know much about her personally but in general terms there is a difference between confidence and grit verses arrogance.  No matter how great a player is it is a bit off putting to others when a dad says his Dd will be the best player in the world at the age of 13.  She may be but I say it is too early to say that.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 19, 2019)

I agree that arrogance is not good.  On the other hand, if you want something in life I’m a firm believer that you have to “name it and claim it.”
I think goals should be specific like my kid is going to be the best in the world.  As opposed to we’re just gonna do our best.

Muhammad Ali once said “if my mind can conceive and my heart can believe it then I can achieve it.”  Ali epitomizes confidence to me.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jul 19, 2019)

MacDre said:


> I agree that arrogance is not good.  On the other hand, if you want something in life I’m a firm believer that you have to “name it and claim it.”
> I think goals should be specific like my kid is going to be the best in the world.  As opposed to we’re just gonna do our best.
> 
> Muhammad Ali once said “if my mind can conceive and my heart can believe it then I can achieve it.”  Ali epitomizes confidence to me.


I agree with you.  You have to see it , name it and claim it but what you have said here is different from the quote I read by her dad


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Jul 20, 2019)

Confidence is talking like this and then going out and scoring a hat trick - https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/07/19/zlatan-ibrahimovic-i-hope-i-motivated-carlos-vela-my-comments.  

Love how he flatly corrects the interviewer that he said "the whole league, not just Vela" .

"I have my confidence and I believe in myself. People call it arrogant, I call it confidence. Ignorant people call it arrogant, intelligent people call it confidence," Ibrahimovic said - https://www.espn.com/soccer/la-galaxy/story/3903033/zlatan-a-mistake-to-compare-me-to-vela.


----------



## Calisoccer11 (Jul 20, 2019)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Confidence is talking like this and then going out and scoring a hat trick - https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/07/19/zlatan-ibrahimovic-i-hope-i-motivated-carlos-vela-my-comments.
> 
> Love how he flatly corrects the interviewer that he said "the whole league, not just Vela" .
> 
> "I have my confidence and I believe in myself. People call it arrogant, I call it confidence. Ignorant people call it arrogant, intelligent people call it confidence," Ibrahimovic said - https://www.espn.com/soccer/la-galaxy/story/3903033/zlatan-a-mistake-to-compare-me-to-vela.


Love this!!


----------



## Justus (Aug 16, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Mom played college soccer. Dad played college basketball. Know both of them. Great people. They have the resources to take that risk and skip college scholarships etc. They are very well off so if things don’t work out she’ll be just fine. But getting to know her and her work ethic that she has is what makes her different. She wants it more than her parents want it for her.


Highest work ethic my dd and I have seen at such a young age (3 years ago).  100% her wanting this, with parents who have the means to help her live her dream.  Live the dream is in the Nike commercial I think.


----------



## redhood (Aug 16, 2019)

The reason Olivia went pro is simple..when you googled her or her parent's names, you'd find out that they sell Essential Oils. If you want the same training Olivia received, you'll be able to have that luxury by selling their pyr...Essential Oils.


----------



## Soccer43 (Aug 16, 2019)

Still hold to my statement - your post above said  "But what he wanted for her is to challenge her even more than what she was already getting in her Beach DA Team. This would be the next step for her development to be challenged at a higher level than what she was getting out of the U17 team. "  She had a challenge playing in the U15 concacaf games and didn't stand out.  That was only 2 years up -  and now she has to play with adult women to get a challenge?    I wish her the best of luck and time will tell how this turns out.

The other significant issue in this discussion has always been the limited payout for professional female soccer players.  It doesn't match the men's salaries and for me that is a no-go with having my DD skip college opportunities and the social-emotional growth that goes along with those experiences.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 16, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> Still hold to my statement - your post above said  "But what he wanted for her is to challenge her even more than what she was already getting in her Beach DA Team. This would be the next step for her development to be challenged at a higher level than what she was getting out of the U17 team. "  She had a challenge playing in the U15 concacaf games and didn't stand out.  That was only 2 years up -  and now she has to play with adult women to get a challenge?    I wish her the best of luck and time will tell how this turns out.
> 
> The other significant issue in this discussion has always been the limited payout for professional female soccer players.  It doesn't match the men's salaries and for me that is a no-go with having my DD skip college opportunities and the social-emotional growth that goes along with those experiences.


Just spoke with a parent whose daughter  also played on that CONCACAF team. For them a college education was the priority.


----------



## MarkM (Aug 16, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Mom played college soccer. Dad played college basketball. Know both of them. Great people. They have the resources to take that risk and skip college scholarships etc. They are very well off so if things don’t work out she’ll be just fine. But getting to know her and her work ethic that she has is what makes her different. She wants it more than her parents want it for her.


"played college basketball".  that's a little bit of an embellishment.  Do you know where he played?


----------



## Avanti (Aug 16, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> ... But he said if they weren’t in their current financial situation then he would not have risked it. But what he wanted for her is to challenge her even more than what she was already getting in her Beach DA Team ...


If her father told you that, it is nonsense. She was so challenged at that level that she was hurting the team. You just have to compare what that team did last year, with what they did this year after she left (and basically playing one year up).  One thing is dribbling towards your goal, ballhogging and losing the ball more often than not because you do not care to defend and whether the team wins or loses (all they cared was to get right two out of ten to make a highlights video), and another thing is playing soccer at the level, physicality and team commitment required to beat teams like Legends, Surf, Blues or Texans (MIA in those games). When the coach positions all other players to make sure that you can get your video, you are allowed to ballhog, and you take every free kick and corner kick even before you start playing in the team, you will score a few goals (and your team will lose games that should not lose)


----------



## Soccer43 (Aug 17, 2019)

So, then you don't really know what you are talking about as you profess all your personal knowledge on this topic?


----------



## espola (Aug 17, 2019)

" Jessica had been a defender for South Carolina and K.C. had played basketball for NAIA Montana State Northern"

https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/05/29/olivia-moultrie-pro-us-soccer-nwsl-portland-thorns-nike


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Aug 17, 2019)

espola said:


> " Jessica had been a defender for South Carolina and K.C. had played basketball for NAIA Montana State Northern"
> 
> https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/05/29/olivia-moultrie-pro-us-soccer-nwsl-portland-thorns-nike


 It’s a great article, exploring many different viewpoints. 
One standout line “The women’s teams of Atlético Madrid and Barcelona drew 60,000 fans for a recent game.”


----------



## espola (Aug 17, 2019)

espola said:


> " Jessica had been a defender for South Carolina and K.C. had played basketball for NAIA Montana State Northern"
> 
> https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/05/29/olivia-moultrie-pro-us-soccer-nwsl-portland-thorns-nike


South Carolina had a lot of Jessicas on their rosters in the 2000 or so era.  Does anyone know her maiden name?


----------



## MarkM (Aug 17, 2019)

espola said:


> " Jessica had been a defender for South Carolina and K.C. had played basketball for NAIA Montana State Northern"
> 
> https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/05/29/olivia-moultrie-pro-us-soccer-nwsl-portland-thorns-nike


https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/9618/kc-moultrie


----------



## espola (Aug 17, 2019)

MarkM said:


> https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/9618/kc-moultrie


He outscored me by 4 points.

Is MJT Montana Tech?


----------



## Hdyldemapples (Aug 17, 2019)

Avanti said:


> If her father told you that, it is nonsense. She was so challenged at that level that she was hurting the team. You just have to compare what that team did last year, with what they did this year after she left (and basically playing one year up).  One thing is dribbling towards your goal, ballhogging and losing the ball more often than not because you do not care to defend and whether the team wins or loses (all they cared was to get right two out of ten to make a highlights video), and another thing is playing soccer at the level, physicality and team commitment required to beat teams like Legends, Surf, Blues or Texans (MIA in those games). When the coach positions all other players to make sure that you can get your video, you are allowed to ballhog, and you take every free kick and corner kick even before you start playing in the team, you will score a few goals (and your team will lose games that should not lose)


So true.  All  of it.


----------



## Soccer43 (Aug 17, 2019)

MarkM said:


> https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/9618/kc-moultrie


So his career stats is one game, 23 min on an NAIA team 18 years ago?  Marketing is so amazing some times


----------



## Soccer43 (Aug 17, 2019)

this quote from the article is one of the reasons I would not be on board with my player going pro at 17 or 18       

_"...... Average NWSL attendance recently surpassed 6,000 for the first time. Still, some teams play in high school stadiums to sparse crowds. Last summer news stories detailed depressing conditions at the New Jersey–based Sky Blue FC. Port-a-potties for locker rooms. Players cleaning their own jerseys. Unreimbursed medical bills. This is the “professional” world Carli Lloyd returned to after her World Cup heroics. " _

Maybe a contract in Europe but not to play in US


----------



## MarkM (Aug 17, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> So his career stats is one game, 23 min on an NAIA team 18 years ago?  Marketing is so amazing some times


I'm not even sure how he got that posted to the ESPN website.  He has got some real juice.


----------



## Justafan (Aug 17, 2019)

espola said:


> He outscored me by 4 points.
> 
> Is MJT Montana Tech?


You almost tied him.


----------



## espola (Aug 17, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> So his career stats is one game, 23 min on an NAIA team 18 years ago?  Marketing is so amazing some times


At least he didn't spend his whole career sitting on the bench.


----------



## espola (Aug 17, 2019)

Justafan said:


> You almost tied him.


The closest I came to college athletics was playing clarinet in the pep band.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Aug 18, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> So his career stats is one game, 23 min on an NAIA team 18 years ago?  Marketing is so amazing some times


Not sure how accurate that is...looks like he played more than one game...and looks like a decent player.


----------



## Justafan (Aug 18, 2019)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Not sure how accurate that is...looks like he played more than one game...and looks like a decent player.


Now we know who rainbow_unicorn is!


----------



## bigroyalbastard (Aug 18, 2019)

Who posts something of himself 21 years ago?  Oh, someone with a lot of juice.  Hilarious.
I can say this for him, he is very good at marketing himself and his dd.


----------



## Justafan (Aug 18, 2019)

Justafan said:


> Now we know who rainbow_unicorn is!


Kind of like when I wore my college jersey at a showcase and sat next to a college coach and pointed out my daughter to him.


----------



## oh canada (Aug 18, 2019)

Justafan said:


> Now we know who rainbow_unicorn is!


guarantee he has more than one account and id on this forum. 

by always playing up, she is insulated somewhat from criticism.  when making mistakes, can always use the excuse, "well, she's playing with girls 3yrs older"


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 18, 2019)

oh canada said:


> guarantee he has more than one account and id on this forum.
> 
> by always playing up, she is insulated somewhat from criticism.  when making mistakes, can always use the excuse, "well, she's playing with girls 3yrs older"


KC use to have a handle on the previous forum. He no longer posts.


----------



## bigroyalbastard (Aug 19, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> KC use to have a handle on the previous forum. He no longer posts.


Oh, I'm sure he still reads and posts when he feels the urge.  Just under new handles.
I am sure he is reading this stuff and loving the free publicity.  Good or bad, it's all publicity and marketing.


----------



## Justafan (Aug 19, 2019)

One thought I don’t think anyone has touched on is that if OM is going to be considered a “phenom,” then she has to be at the top of her sport by the age of 15 or 16.  And by the top of her sport, I mean one of the best players in the world, period.  Think Janet Evans, Tracy Austin, Nadia Comaneci.  She will be there soon, so we’ll see.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 19, 2019)

I think their family is LDS-  does she play on Sunday?


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Nov 27, 2019)

Why are none of us talking about this player. I heard of her a year or so ago and have watched real game footage. Not clips. Her fanfare is low.








						Ally Sentnor Is Our 2019 SportsKid of the Year | SI Kids
					

Soccer phenom Ally Sentnor is the 2019 SportsKid of the Year.




					www.sikids.com


----------



## dk_b (Nov 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Why are none of us talking about this player. I heard of her a year or so ago and have watched real game footage. Not clips. Her fanfare is low.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think I mentioned her upthread (or maybe on another string). My daughter has been with her in camp several times over the years, including an overseas trip, despite being two years older (and I think she attended at least one camp in the run up to the u17 WC when it was primarily 01s with some 02s, so 3 years up).  it is no surprise that AS would get this accolade and I often think of her when I see articles about OM.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Nov 28, 2019)

dk_b said:


> I think I mentioned her upthread (or maybe on another string). My daughter has been with her in camp several times over the years, including an overseas trip, despite being two years older (and I think she attended at least one camp in the run up to the u17 WC when it was primarily 01s with some 02s, so 3 years up).  it is no surprise that AS would get this accolade and I often think of her when I see articles about OM.





dk_b said:


> I think I mentioned her upthread (or maybe on another string). My daughter has been with her in camp several times over the years, including an overseas trip, despite being two years older (and I think she attended at least one camp in the run up to the u17 WC when it was primarily 01s with some 02s, so 3 years up).  it is no surprise that AS would get this accolade and I often think of her when I see articles about OM.


Tech mentioned her. But that conversation was short. Saw this and wanted to put it out there. If you can find that thread you mentioned I’d like to read.


----------



## newwavedave (Nov 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Why are none of us talking about this player. I heard of her a year or so ago and have watched real game footage. Not clips. Her fanfare is low.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This what I call a GOAT.  A few others I'm sure out there in 04 age.  If I had to bet, I would say she will most likely be the one 04 GOAT to make the big squad someday.  Not many spots for the big squad that USSF and DA are trying to squeeze out from the girls playing.  Good luck to all of you with your pursuit to make the National Team someday


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Nov 28, 2019)

newwavedave said:


> This what I call a GOAT.  A few others I'm sure out there in 04 age.  If I had to bet, I would say she will most likely be the one 04 GOAT to make the big squad someday.  Not many spots for the big squad that USSF and DA are trying to squeeze out from the girls playing.  Good luck to all of you with your pursuit to make the National Team someday


I like her chances of making it to the top.


----------



## timmyh (Nov 28, 2019)

newwavedave said:


> This what I call a GOAT.  A few others I'm sure out there in 04 age.  If I had to bet, I would say she will most likely be the one 04 GOAT to make the big squad someday.  Not many spots for the big squad that USSF and DA are trying to squeeze out from the girls playing.  Good luck to all of you with your pursuit to make the National Team someday


i think both Sentnor and Jaedyn Shaw are up there with, or even ahead of, Moultrie. All three are pretty special for their ages.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Nov 28, 2019)

timmyh said:


> i think both Sentnor and Jaedyn Shaw are up there with, or even ahead of, Moultrie. All three are pretty special for their ages.


I agree and would add GT and AT to that list!


----------



## GTS (Dec 1, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> I agree and would add GT and AT to that list!


AS, JS, and OM are top notch for sure.

AS is 04, JS is a 05, and I believe OM is a 06.


Focusing on class 2022, my picks of players that may make the senior team one day are:
 Allyson Sentnor - Forward
Juliauna Hayward - Midfielder
Teagan Wy- Goalie


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Dec 1, 2019)

GTS said:


> AS, JS, and OM are top notch for sure.
> 
> AS is 04, JS is a 05, and I believe OM is a 06.
> 
> ...


OM 05


----------



## SWINGIT!! (Dec 2, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> OM 05


JS 04


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Dec 2, 2019)

SWINGIT!! said:


> JS 04


Yup.


----------



## shales1002 (Dec 2, 2019)

GTS said:


> AS, JS, and OM are top notch for sure.
> 
> AS is 04, JS is a 05, and I believe OM is a 06.
> 
> ...


Focusing on the 2022's, I would agree with ONE of your picks. She's a sweetheart and certainly a game-changer.  I just think the college game will change it all. Hopefully, these girls continue to flourish in college. You only have GDA players listed. Is that intentional?  To be fair that's who they have called.


----------



## shales1002 (Dec 2, 2019)

SWINGIT!! said:


> JS 04


JS is 2023. OM is a 2024.


----------



## Technician72 (Dec 10, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Why are none of us talking about this player. I heard of her a year or so ago and have watched real game footage. Not clips. Her fanfare is low.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





LASTMAN14 said:


> Tech mentioned her. But that conversation was short. Saw this and wanted to put it out there. If you can find that thread you mentioned I’d like to read.


In a thread that was started to discuss OM going pro, I find it pleasing that you brought up AS. I knew I liked you!

AS and OM are both phenomenal talents, but the AS story is the other side of the youth superstar coin. If you compare both of their journeys, background, parents, and lifestyles it really shows that the phenomenal young ladies who are at the top of the game in their respective age groups or playing up can evolve or be formed in very different ways. 

Personally, I'm a big fan of the AS model / story, it has a lot to do with her fanfare being low as you say. Everything I've read and seen from her story says blue-collar. She punches the clock, goes to work and is the epidemy of "what you do when no one is looking".

I wish all these talented young ladies the best in their futures!


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Dec 11, 2019)

Technician72 said:


> In a thread that was started to discuss OM going pro, I find it pleasing that you brought up AS. I knew I liked you!
> 
> AS and OM are both phenomenal talents, but the AS story is the other side of the youth superstar coin. If you compare both of their journeys, background, parents, and lifestyles it really shows that the phenomenal young ladies who are at the top of the game in their respective age groups or playing up can evolve or be formed in very different ways.
> 
> ...


I share the same sentiment.


----------



## SoccerSpoiler (May 6, 2021)

She’s determined to play.









						Portland Thorns’ Olivia Moultrie, 15, files lawsuit for right to play in NWSL
					

A 15-year-old has sued in federal court for the right to play in the National Women’s Soccer League, which doesn’t allow players under 18




					www.google.com


----------



## Giesbock (May 6, 2021)

SoccerSpoiler said:


> She’s determined to play.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Getting entangled in legal battles with her league and team is not a great next step in her career.

Granted, a photo is just an instant captured, but that picture of her on the cover of the article has unhappy, frustrated, angry written all over it.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 6, 2021)

Giesbock said:


> Getting entangled in legal battles with her league and team is not a great next step in her career.
> 
> Granted, a photo is just an instant captured, but that picture of her on the cover of the article has unhappy, frustrated, angry written all over it.


THose parents must be insane!  Granted I get their point to allow under 18 players to play but why ruin a young player's life by pushing soccer so much.   She can make so much more by becoming a doctor, lawyer, or just any other career that can bring happiness to her life.    Let her be a kid (too late for that) and let her go to college (still a chance).


----------



## Carlsbad7 (May 6, 2021)

Giesbock said:


> Getting entangled in legal battles with her league and team is not a great next step in her career.
> 
> Granted, a photo is just an instant captured, but that picture of her on the cover of the article has unhappy, frustrated, angry written all over it.


Not so sure getting legal with the entity that pays you equals a bad thing anymore. Megan Rapinoe did it, made a bunch of $$$, and is now famous for it.


----------



## crush (May 6, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> THose parents must be insane!  Granted I get their point to allow under 18 players to play but why ruin a young player's life by pushing soccer so much.   She can make so much more by becoming a doctor, lawyer, or just any other career that can bring happiness to her life.    Let her be a kid (too late for that) and let her go to college (still a chance).


I love it  Let her go pro whenever she wants is my take. Same for basketball players. I'm still SMFH why any stud ball player can't sign at 16. This BS that they have to wait until 18 and also go to college for one year. Oh Please, #lethemgopro. Who needs college when pro is right around the corner? My dd was able to battle the great OM for two years at practice every week and let me tell you Soccer Fan 4 Life, this player loves to play soccer and is very happy when she plays and my dd says she is one of kind and is all in soccer 24/7. It's called freedom of choice.  The free choice to be whatever the hell you want to be in life.  My dd was approached to go pro as well back when she was 12. Of course I was blushing with dad pride and ego. I heard about dads sending kids to far away places to be a pro in soccer player for the boys ((my dd former All American coach left home at 15 to play in Holland with the flying Dutchman)). However, this new proposal for girls seemed whack if I were to be honest. I thought about her going pro for a few seconds and then it was a big fat, "hell no." I came on here with satire three years ago and so many damn fools thought I was serious about sending my daughter away at 13 to be trained by the "Pros." Ahhhhh, no thank you


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 6, 2021)

SoccerSpoiler said:


> She’s determined to play.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This move is not in her best interests.


----------



## lafalafa (May 6, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> This move is not in her best interests.


Respect for the player who being working on her game hard and has a lot of potential.

The parents on the other hand have their own agenda, manufactured a image, spendt huge sums on a back yard pitch, travel, personal trainers, silver spoon activities, lawyers, etc.

When you don't achieve things soley based on merit, performance, skills, etc and have parents that called the shots, arranged things, sued to get there way there is always going to be question marks and some resentment.

In such a big rush to be the "youngest" they forget to actually let the girl be a normal teen person, play more and develop but would rather say hey we're too good for this and sue while everyone else continues on and has fun playing, feel sorry for the player. The parents on the other hand not so much.


----------



## timbuck (May 6, 2021)

“The truth is that if Olivia Moultrie* was male, she’d already be playing in MLS,*” attorney Max Forer said in a statement. “Further, she’s already eligible to play for the US Women’s National Team but can’t officially play in the league that develops and prepares talent for the National Team, that’s unfair.”

How'd that workout for Freddy Adu?
I wish Olivia luck.  From what I've seen, she can really play.  I don't doubt that she could play in the league right now.
But-  How does a 15 year old travel to games?  Check in to a hotel?  What does she do when her teammates are talking about real adult topics (relationships, money, sex, etc).  
And it's not like NWSL players are making NBA money.
National Women’s Soccer League making significant changes to salary cap structure
*2020 Salary Cap*
The NWSL has increased its salary cap to $650,000, up from $421,500 in 2019. The minimum player salary will rise to $20,000, up from $16,538 in 2019. The maximum salary will rise to $50,000, up from $46,200 in 2019.

I know she has a contract with Nike.  I wonder if Nike and/or her agent are pushing this lawsuit to try and make something of the sponsorship money Nike is giving her.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 6, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Respect for the player who being working on her game hard and has a lot of potential.
> 
> The parents on the other hand have their own agenda, manufactured a image, spendt huge sums on a back yard pitch, travel, personal trainers, silver spoon activities, lawyers, etc.
> 
> ...


Exactly. Your summary rings true.


----------



## foreveryoung (May 6, 2021)

timbuck said:


> “The truth is that if Olivia Moultrie* was male, she’d already be playing in MLS,*” attorney Max Forer said in a statement. “Further, she’s already eligible to play for the US Women’s National Team but can’t officially play in the league that develops and prepares talent for the National Team, that’s unfair.”
> 
> How'd that workout for Freddy Adu?
> I wish Olivia luck.  From what I've seen, she can really play.  I don't doubt that she could play in the league right now.
> ...


I don't disagree with you but how is this any different from child actors?  Aren't professional athletes really just entertainers?  I wouldn't pursue either for my kids but clearly there are lots of people that do and a very lucrative market for it.


----------



## timbuck (May 6, 2021)

foreveryoung said:


> I don't disagree with you but how is this any different from child actors?  Aren't professional athletes really just entertainers?  I wouldn't pursue either for my kids but clearly there are lots of people that do and a very lucrative market for it.


Child actors usually wind up pretty fucked up too  (But they make a ton of money.  For themselves and their parents)


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 6, 2021)

foreveryoung said:


> I don't disagree with you but how is this any different from child actors?  Aren't professional athletes really just entertainers?  I wouldn't pursue either for my kids but clearly there are lots of people that do and a very lucrative market for it.


Sports and acting are vastly two different disciplines. That if you lined up the requirements involved you can see the differences. Though a good point made.


----------



## lafalafa (May 6, 2021)

timbuck said:


> “The truth is that if Olivia Moultrie* was male, she’d already be playing in MLS,*” attorney Max Forer said in a statement. “Further, she’s already eligible to play for the US Women’s National Team but can’t officially play in the league that develops and prepares talent for the National Team, that’s unfair.”
> 
> How'd that workout for Freddy Adu?
> I wish Olivia luck.  From what I've seen, she can really play.  I don't doubt that she could play in the league right now.
> ...


No that's not the truth. 

The truth is that the parents signed her up for the thorns knowing that the senior women's league doesn't allow minors to play.

2 years later and their regretting that decision so instead of taking responsibility they are blaming other and suing.  Class case of entitlement and manufacturing drama.


----------



## foreveryoung (May 6, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> When you don't achieve things soley based on merit, performance, skills, etc and have parents that called the shots, arranged things, sued to get there way there is always going to be question marks and some resentment.


Sounds like the elite university admissions system.  Lots of people "buying" success for their kids.  The  club soccer system is riddled with it.  When the $10k investment in fees and travel doesn't seem to be cutting it they add additional training, private lessons, resident programs, etc.


----------



## GLangevinito (May 6, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> No that's not the truth.
> 
> The truth is that the parents signed her up for the thorns knowing that the senior women's league doesn't allow minors to play.
> 
> 2 years later and their regretting that decision so instead of taking responsibility they are blaming other and suing.  Class case of entitlement and manufacturing drama.


From what I know, this is exactly the case. She was impressive at the youth level, when her extra aggression and overly practiced scissors/stepover combo was all WHOA. There are many of us who have watched her play on Beach before she "went pro". I watched her play for Beach and was ineffective. She was muscled off the ball, she failed to pass, she got frustrated and acted like Neymar when she didn't get the ball. Beach bought into the hype her Dad created, just like Nike did, just like the Thorns did. 

She would not start on most college squads, what makes her Dad she can compete professionally?


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (May 6, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> From what I know, this is exactly the case. She was impressive at the youth level, when her extra aggression and overly practiced scissors/stepover combo was all WHOA. There are many of us who have watched her play on Beach before she "went pro". I watched her play for Beach and was ineffective. She was muscled off the ball, she failed to pass, she got frustrated and acted like Neymar when she didn't get the ball. Beach bought into the hype her Dad created, just like Nike did, just like the Thorns did.
> 
> She would not start on most college squads, what makes her Dad she can compete professionally?


Beach, Nike and Thorns all fooled but not you huh?


----------



## full90 (May 6, 2021)

I’m so torn. 
On one hand I think the rules are in place to help protect these kids from this exact scenario. 18 is a wise age to work up thru the youth ranks and maturity wise be at a spot to work with pros and survive in that environment. So the rules protect kids from their own worst ideas and parents insanity.

but on the other there will be cases like this. This kid is good, and wants the chance to compete. Being allowed to compete for a spot will solve the mystery. She’ll make it or not. She’s good enough or not. Every other country allows kids to join the pro ranks at whatever age and if their good enough they get promoted thru the ranks.
But we see the byproduct of that system with thousands of kids spit out each year. Do we want that in America?

I’ve seen her be magical and I’ve seen her be average. I didn’t agree with their initial decision (could they not see this coming? Geez) and zero people are surprised this is where we are.

they knew when they left LA (with tons of options and opportunities for high level soccer training and much better youth teams than the thorns) what the NWSL rules were. They knew. What did they think would happen?


----------



## espola (May 6, 2021)

GLangevinito said:


> From what I know, this is exactly the case. She was impressive at the youth level, when her extra aggression and overly practiced scissors/stepover combo was all WHOA. There are many of us who have watched her play on Beach before she "went pro". I watched her play for Beach and was ineffective. She was muscled off the ball, she failed to pass, she got frustrated and acted like Neymar when she didn't get the ball. Beach bought into the hype her Dad created, just like Nike did, just like the Thorns did.
> 
> She would not start on most college squads, what makes her Dad she can compete professionally?


After my son's college career was over, I found an old DVD that included his high school highlights.  We watched some of it at a family gathering.

"How come you never made moves like that when you played in college?"

"Those defenders weren't good enough to make a college team."


----------



## notintheface (May 6, 2021)

OM is good, there shouldn't be a debate there.

Her parents are choosing an inexplicably bad path for her. The lawsuit being successful may have some wider repercussions but it will do nothing to advance her career. When she is 30, she will probably look back on this with an extreme amount of regret.


----------



## crush (May 6, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Child actors usually wind up pretty fucked up too  (But they make a ton of money.  For themselves and their parents)


We're all learning ((some keep their heads in the sand)) how f up too.  Sad stuff coming out coach buck.  Buckle up timmy....


----------



## Emma (May 6, 2021)

If your life affords flexibility and your child wants it, why not provide it if it doesn't harm anyone? Every kid has a unique path.  Why not give girls the same options boys have in the MLS? Then let the coaches and individuals/families decide if it's the right path and fit. 

OM's parents have sacrificed a lot of time, energy and money into helping her achieve her goals.  So long as they are letting her guide her own path, why not?  

Professional level Gymnast and ice skaters go down this path too.  

How many of us look back on our lives and say ...I regret going for it all? Most of our regrets come from stopping short of it and if we worked hard and failed, we're still darn proud we tried and didn't just find an excuse to stop.  I cheer anyone on that has the courage and hardwork to pursue something different and new while opening up more doors for girls.  

My children do not want to travel down this path for soccer, but if they did, I would support them as much as I could like OM's parents.


----------



## crush (May 6, 2021)

foreveryoung said:


> Sounds like the elite university admissions system.  Lots of people "buying" success for their kids.  The  club soccer system is riddled with it.  When the $10k investment in fees and travel doesn't seem to be cutting it they add additional training, private lessons, resident programs, etc.


So true.  One higher up prick told me that they were in the process of building full time housing camps for girls.  I'm like, "who the fuck would send their dd to some full-time soccer camp to.live with adult females?"  He told me the men had DA and camps for boys, the girls will have their camps."  Again, I said, "That's whack and lame and 99% of.parenrs would never send dd away."


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 6, 2021)

[


Emma said:


> If your life affords flexibility and your child wants it, why not provide it if it doesn't harm anyone? Every kid has a unique path.  Why not give girls the same options boys have in the MLS? Then let the coaches and individuals/families decide if it's the right path and fit.
> 
> OM's parents have sacrificed a lot of time, energy and money into helping her achieve her goals.  So long as they are letting her guide her own path, why not?
> 
> ...


I can agree with you in theory. However, this situation does not fit this scenario as simply as you have stated. Previous posts have eluded to the truth of the matter.


----------



## espola (May 6, 2021)

Emma said:


> If your life affords flexibility and your child wants it, why not provide it if it doesn't harm anyone? Every kid has a unique path.  Why not give girls the same options boys have in the MLS? Then let the coaches and individuals/families decide if it's the right path and fit.
> 
> OM's parents have sacrificed a lot of time, energy and money into helping her achieve her goals.  So long as they are letting her guide her own path, why not?
> 
> ...


Gymnasts and figure skaters have absolute standards to compare against and experienced professionals to judge their abilities.   Soccer players only have to be better than the opponents of the moment to stand out.  They won't know their full level unless they play against opponents who can test the full range of their ability.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 6, 2021)

crush said:


> So true.  One higher up prick told me that they were in the process of building full time housing camps for girls.  I'm like, "who the fuck would send their dd to some full-time soccer camp to.live with adult females?"  He told me the men had DA and camps for boys, the girls will have their camps."  Again, I said, "That's whack and lame and 99% of.parenrs would never send dd away."


It's not really that different than sending ones child to a boarding school that emphasizes sports (whether coed or not). Or a boarding school for girls only. For example-IMG Academy (Florida), or FCBEscola, or Chatham Hall.


----------



## watfly (May 6, 2021)

Emma said:


> If your life affords flexibility and your child wants it, why not provide it if it doesn't harm anyone? Every kid has a unique path.  Why not give girls the same options boys have in the MLS? Then let the coaches and individuals/families decide if it's the right path and fit.
> 
> OM's parents have sacrificed a lot of time, energy and money into helping her achieve her goals.  So long as they are letting her guide her own path, why not?
> 
> ...


Well said.  If its the kids drive and goals, and not just the parents, I don't have a problem with it (well, actually its none of my business).  There does appear to be some inequities between sports and genders, but some of that may be contact related.

I understand that these scenarios don't work at well for some, but it has for others.  I wish her the best of luck and hope she does everything on her own terms.


----------



## myself (May 6, 2021)

Good luck to the young lady, but I find it difficult to believe she'd make any sort of impact as a high school freshman going against grown women that have gone thru 4 years of college and are trying to earn a living.


----------



## crush (May 6, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> It's not really that different than sending ones child to a boarding school that emphasizes sports (whether coed or not). Or a boarding school for girls only. For example-IMG Academy (Florida), or FCBEscola, or Chatham Hall.


No judgement from me bro.  I can;t imagine sending my dd to some boarding school or soccer house at 12 or 13.  This is crazy ass shit.  I told you years ago that some ((not all!!!!)) Docs were whacked bro.  I'm sorry for beating a dead horse but man, the shit I heard from some were insane.  I know they do this in Europe but not in my house.  I swear if I could have taped the convo I had with this Doc you would be concerned.  Peace to all of you.


----------



## Emma (May 6, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> [
> 
> I can agree with you in theory. However, this situation does not fit this scenario as simply as you have stated. Previous posts have eluded to the truth of the matter.


If her parents are the ones dreaming it and Olivia would prefer to stay local and play with her peers to establish friendships, I hope her parents snap out of it soon.


----------



## crush (May 6, 2021)

Emma said:


> If her parents are the ones dreaming it and Olivia would prefer to stay local and play with her peers to establish friendships, I hope her parents snap out of it soon.


Emma, read the article.  OM is quoted as saying it's her dream, not dads dream.  Parents have their own dreams as well and sometimes dreams co-mingle.  Let the dreamers dream and let's see what happens.  Remember, good always winds out at the end   It's good to see you posting again Emma


----------



## crush (May 6, 2021)

BTW, I'm sorry for some of the F bombs today.  Sometimes I let it out.  I did keep that fucking word in my head from 1988 til July 2019.  That is a long time holding something in.  I like to use it only to make a strong point and that's it.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 6, 2021)

Emma said:


> If her parents are the ones dreaming it and Olivia would prefer to stay local and play with her peers to establish friendships, I hope her parents snap out of it soon.


Me too.


----------



## Yousername (May 6, 2021)

crush said:


> I love it  Let her go pro whenever she wants is my take. Same for basketball players. I'm still SMFH why any stud ball player can't sign at 16. This BS that they have to wait until 18 and also go to college for one year. Oh Please, #lethemgopro. Who needs college when pro is right around the corner? My dd was able to battle the great OM for two years at practice every week and let me tell you Soccer Fan 4 Life, this player loves to play soccer and is very happy when she plays and my dd says she is one of kind and is all in soccer 24/7. It's called freedom of choice.  The free choice to be whatever the hell you want to be in life.  My dd was approached to go pro as well back when she was 12. *Of course I was blushing with dad pride and ego. *I heard about dads sending kids to far away places to be a pro in soccer player for the boys ((my dd former All American coach left home at 15 to play in Holland with the flying Dutchman)). However, this new proposal for girls seemed whack if I were to be honest. I thought about her going pro for a few seconds and then it was a big fat, "hell no." I came on here with satire three years ago and so many damn fools thought I was serious about sending my daughter away at 13 to be trained by the "Pros." Ahhhhh, no thank you


YOU?!!! Shocker!!!


----------



## foreveryoung (May 6, 2021)

Emma said:


> If her parents are the ones dreaming it and Olivia would prefer to stay local and play with her peers to establish friendships, I hope her parents snap out of it soon.


I don't think it's as always as simple as this.  Many kids don't feel like they can speak up about their own desires, or they feel an immense desire/responsibility to please their parents.  That definitely could be in play here.  There are plenty of stories of people in professions that took many years of school that felt completely forced into by their parents.  I also don't think kids really grasp the sacrifices they are making or what's really involved and it shouldn't just be "what the kid wants".   It needs to be a carefully thought through "family" decision.  These kind of sacrifices also impact siblings.   That said I also think that supporting your child's dream is valid.  It's just not as black and white if it's the kid's dream then it's okay.  Kids can be heavily influenced into what their dream should be or what "success" looks like and parents are often not even conscious they are doing it.


----------



## msoccerm (May 6, 2021)

Can't judge OM's situation because I have never watched her play. However, the rest of the world are allowing their young players to play pro and get paid at at least 16. College soccer IN GENERAL is a waste of time if you want to go pro. The season is short and you're required to play 2 games a week which takes a toll on the body and means that practice can't be too intense because you are either recovering from a game or going into a game. And a player can't grow as much in college as they could playing with experienced, older pros. And the coaches aren't necessarily the best fit for an elite player.

That being said the NWSL is known for being a solid comp where every team is very good - unlike the European Leagues where only the top 2 or 3 are very good. This would mean to me that it would be very hard to get on the pitch as a 15 yo in the NWSL as opposed to a team at the bottom of the German League.

*Anyways bravo OM for paving the way for other USWNT hopefuls and helping the US keep up with the rest of the world. *

What a bunch of negative, mean, jealous people on this thread. What do you care what she is doing? You're kid got their little scholarship. Why are you pulling others down that are choosing a different path?


----------



## Yousername (May 6, 2021)

My only take on this has to do with the disparity between men and women in sports. Our family has always operated on the assumption that, while in high school, no matter what accolades our daughter gets, the goal for her is to get to college. Soccer is great, but as a profession, women don’t make what the men are making out there. And if she retires, quits or injures herself, as a woman, there isn’t a solid fall back plan without a college degree. She needs to be able to take care of herself for the rest of her life. She will readily admit she more athlete than student, but she also understands that the academics is where it is to set her up long term. 
Every family has to do what’s right for themselves and their kid. For us, it was making sure that she has short and long term aspirations, both on and off the field.


----------



## Soccerfan2 (May 6, 2021)

msoccerm said:


> Can't judge OM's situation because I have never watched her play. However, the rest of the world are allowing their young players to play pro and get paid at at least 16. College soccer IN GENERAL is a waste of time if you want to go pro. The season is short and you're required to play 2 games a week which takes a toll on the body and means that practice can't be too intense because you are either recovering from a game or going into a game. And a player can't grow as much in college as they could playing with experienced, older pros. And the coaches aren't necessarily the best fit for an elite player.
> 
> That being said the NWSL is known for being a solid comp where every team is very good - unlike the European Leagues where only the top 2 or 3 are very good. This would mean to me that it would be very hard to get on the pitch as a 15 yo in the NWSL as opposed to a team at the bottom of the German League.
> 
> ...


I tend to agree with you. She seems genuinely in love with soccer and she’s going after her goals full on. Her parents don’t seem unreasonable to me. It’s not the path I would choose for my child for many of the reasons others have stated, and I don’t really get the rush, but who am I to judge what they choose or second guess their motivations. She rightly has brought attention the the fact that many others in this sport and other sports can compete professionally at her age. 
I’m not sure the all criticisms are jealousy or meanness. Some people just see the risks as too great. But, we don’t all have to walk the same path and there’s more than one way to experience the world thank goodness.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 6, 2021)

msoccerm said:


> Can't judge OM's situation because I have never watched her play. However, the rest of the world are allowing their young players to play pro and get paid at at least 16. College soccer IN GENERAL is a waste of time if you want to go pro. The season is short and you're required to play 2 games a week which takes a toll on the body and means that practice can't be too intense because you are either recovering from a game or going into a game. And a player can't grow as much in college as they could playing with experienced, older pros. And the coaches aren't necessarily the best fit for an elite player.
> 
> That being said the NWSL is known for being a solid comp where every team is very good - unlike the European Leagues where only the top 2 or 3 are very good. This would mean to me that it would be very hard to get on the pitch as a 15 yo in the NWSL as opposed to a team at the bottom of the German League.
> 
> ...


It's not the path (and hers is not a new one or she is paving the way). It's how the path has been set for her. From your first sentence it appears you do not know much about her other than what has been posted. There is much more to this that a few of us on here know, have seen, and understand.


----------



## Giesbock (May 6, 2021)

msoccerm said:


> Can't judge OM's situation because I have never watched her play. However, the rest of the world are allowing their young players to play pro and get paid at at least 16. College soccer IN GENERAL is a waste of time if you want to go pro. The season is short and you're required to play 2 games a week which takes a toll on the body and means that practice can't be too intense because you are either recovering from a game or going into a game. And a player can't grow as much in college as they could playing with experienced, older pros. And the coaches aren't necessarily the best fit for an elite player.
> 
> That being said the NWSL is known for being a solid comp where every team is very good - unlike the European Leagues where only the top 2 or 3 are very good. This would mean to me that it would be very hard to get on the pitch as a 15 yo in the NWSL as opposed to a team at the bottom of the German League.
> 
> ...


Respect your right to an opinion but to diminish the importance of a college education or belittle a “little” scholarship is dangerous. And even more so on the girls side.  

Throughout Europe where there is no educational “safety net” if you fall short at any level in the climb
to pro, you’re unceremoniously jettisoned from the team and dream... to do what?? 

If my daughter got the attention and opportunities that Ms Moultrie has had put before her, I too would encourage my kid to go for it. But she hasn’t been given those invitations. And I’m willing to bet very very few of your kids have either - Ms Moultrie’s situation is so rare (Heck, it’s actually one of a kind).  

Tough to even think of squashing my daughter’s  dreams and I won’t. But here on this forum, I take the position of a sensible parent.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 6, 2021)

The kid clearly is good and loves soccer.  The parents knew what they were getting into so why now bring up a lawsuit.  The smarter play would be let her grow up and continue to love the sport with competitive soccer locally before getting her stuck in a lose lose situation. It’s not jealousy but more of the lack of missteps from the parents.   Fame and glory looks amazing until it’s not.


----------



## msoccerm (May 6, 2021)

Yousername said:


> e. Soccer is great, but as a profession, women don’t make what the men are making out there. And if she retires, quits or injures herself, as a woman, there isn’t a solid fall back plan without a college degree.


Why can't she play pro AND get a college degree? With universities online these days it's even more possible. Teams don't train all day.


----------



## msoccerm (May 6, 2021)

Giesbock said:


> Respect your right to an opinion but to diminish the importance of a college education or belittle a “little” scholarship is dangerous. And even more so on the girls side.
> 
> Throughout Europe where there is no educational “safety net” if you fall short at any level in the climb
> to pro, you’re unceremoniously jettisoned from the team and dream... to do what??
> ...


In Europe a lot of pro players are getting university degrees while they are getting paid to play. And in most countries the cost of university is low or in some cases free. Of course they have a safety net - it's called family and the government.


----------



## msoccerm (May 6, 2021)

This isn't about the girl. It's about the right to play pro at 16 (15 if parents are with you). This age is set by FIFA. She opening doors for those girls who aren't academic and want to chase their dreams because they can't afford to move to Europe to play.

It's ok to not be academic and not want to go to university. Nothing wrong with getting a trade.


----------



## GT45 (May 6, 2021)

msoccerm said:


> This isn't about the girl. It's about the right to play pro at 16 (15 if parents are with you). This age is set by FIFA. She opening doors for those girls who aren't academic and want to chase their dreams because they can't afford to move to Europe to play.
> 
> It's ok to not be academic and not want to go to university. Nothing wrong with getting a trade.


Do you really believe she decided to sue NWSL? She is 15 years old. She did not make this decision. Her parents and lawyers did. And, they are using her name to do so.


----------



## msoccerm (May 7, 2021)

She wants to play in the NWSL. Other girls her age around the world are getting to play at her age. Her parents are helping her. I'm sure they or their club requested permission to play and the NWSL didn't grant them permission. They appealed and again no such luck. Sueing seems a little over the top,  but maybe they're friends with a lawyer and they are just doing what they need to do to get the rule changed. Isn't California the most litigious state in the USA?

Its already happening with the boys:








						The MLS youth movement continues
					

Major League Soccer doesn't have an entry age for players, with signings skewing younger than the other North American pro sports leagues.




					ussoccerplayers.com
				




I didn't read the article and I never heard of the girl and am not comfortable discussing a minor on a public forum. But I never understood why the NWSL has a 18 yo minimum age. Not that my kid is good enough. It just is odd and I think it's holding really elite American players back.


----------



## crush (May 7, 2021)

Envy?  Jealousy?  It runs so deep in our country.  "Good luck OM" is my take.  What is an academic?  Is that a cool tag line to have on one's resume in life?  "I have two degrees and I'm smarter than you.  No soccer or freedom allowed for girls.  You must go to college to play soccer and be something in life."  The pressure some of you put on kids is insane!!!  Good day natives.  I love you all


----------



## outside! (May 7, 2021)

msoccerm said:


> But I never understood why the NWSL has a 18 yo minimum age.


I have mixed feelings on the minimum age thing. I think most would agree that we need minimum age requirements for many things, after that it just comes down to deciding what is the right age. There should not be any disparity between males and females, but in many cases females are probably more likely to be physically and mentally able to take on adult responsibilities than males at a younger age. Having said all that, I personally would like to see the minimum age for the Olympics raised to at least 16 for all athletes and 16 seems about right for professional sports.


----------



## GT45 (May 7, 2021)

msoccerm said:


> She wants to play in the NWSL. Other girls her age around the world are getting to play at her age. Her parents are helping her. I'm sure they or their club requested permission to play and the NWSL didn't grant them permission. They appealed and again no such luck. Sueing seems a little over the top,  but maybe they're friends with a lawyer and they are just doing what they need to do to get the rule changed. Isn't California the most litigious state in the USA?
> 
> Its already happening with the boys:
> 
> ...


But do we know that this is what SHE wants? I think that is the point some are trying to make on here. I know next to nothing about this girl, other than a few clips on her play. Are her parents driving this for financial reasons, or does the girl want this?


----------



## Chalklines (May 7, 2021)

Supreme Court won't allow Clarett to enter draft
					

The Supreme Court refused Thursday to let 20-year-old Maurice Clarett into the NFL draft this weekend.




					www.espn.com
				












						Clarett Sues NFL Over Draft
					

Ohio State running back, suspended for the season, challenges the three-year rule that makes him ineligible for next year's draft. League vows a fight.




					www.latimes.com


----------



## Soccer43 (May 8, 2021)

msoccerm said:


> This isn't about the girl. It's about the right to play pro at 16 (15 if parents are with you). This age is set by FIFA. She opening doors for those girls who aren't academic and want to chase their dreams because they can't afford to move to Europe to play.
> 
> It's ok to not be academic and not want to go to university. Nothing wrong with getting a trade.


Have no problem with her making her own choices about her path but quit hyping it up as it is such an amazing and better opportunity than getting a scholarship to college.  They are glorifying this as if it is the most amazing opportunity rather than just a different choice.  Both are good, neither one is the moral high road and there is a down side to going pro at an early age so just acknowledge that and quit making it sound like it is the holy grail. Haven't seen things turn out great yet for MP, or AS or even SS.  Maybe it will end up so but hasn't happened yet.  As has been said before, if it were the salaries of male pro sports then all for it.  For $50,000 a year - not the holy grail.


----------



## msoccerm (May 8, 2021)

Soccer43 said:


> and there is a down side to going pro at an early age so just acknowledge that and quit making it sound like it is the holy grail.


There is a downside to everything. It is the holy grail for elite players in Europe and Asia. Why would you train with players your own age that have an average soccer iq when you could train/play with professionals and really grow as a player?  If a player is offered a pro contract at 16 or 18 it would be hard to turn it down. They can go to university at any age.

We're not talking about players that are playing for fun (e.g. an average college player) - we're talking about players that want to play at the highest level.


----------



## pokergod (May 8, 2021)

GT45 said:


> Do you really believe she decided to sue NWSL? She is 15 years old. She did not make this decision. Her parents and lawyers did. And, they are using her name to do so.


I'm sure nike has nothing to with this based on the amount of money they are paying her.  I still thinks she wins the lawsuit and probably should.


----------



## SoccerLocker (May 24, 2021)

Judge issues TRO in favor of OM.  Good for 14 days.


----------



## warrior49 (May 24, 2021)

SoccerLocker said:


> Judge issues TRO in favor of OM.  Good for 14 days.


TRO against who?


----------



## SoccerLocker (May 24, 2021)

Against the plaintiff (NWSL).  They cannot enforce the 18 year min age for the next 14 days, presumably to give them time to change the rule, or some sort of injunction would follow.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 24, 2021)

Anyone else willing to take their daughter away from school and college to become a pro at 16 and make $20k a year?


----------



## dad4 (May 24, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Anyone else willing to take their daughter away from school and college to become a pro at 16 and make $20k a year?


First, you need to assume your child is destined to make 500K per year in WNT endorsements. 

I don't think the parents are doing all this because they think she's got a chance to be a Thorns bench player.

(They're still nuts.  But it's Brazil nuts, not peanuts.)


----------



## Chalklines (May 24, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Anyone else willing to take their daughter away from school and college to become a pro at 16 and make $20k a year?


Whats her payout from the Thorns and Nike? 

All that circulated is her Nike contract was worth north of $300k for 4 years. She making at least $75k a year from them plus what ever the Thorns are paying her. Min salary at $17k. Thats not including any other endorsement deals or when she makes the USWNT which at min is an extra $62k a year.

So for now shes bringing in at least $92k a year and receiving the best training possible at no cost.


----------



## Bethsoccer (May 24, 2021)

Holy Cow !!!  I thought NWSL pay more than this.



*How Much Do NWSL Players Make — 2020 NWSL Compensation Guidelines*

*Salary Cap:* Increased from $421,500 to $650,000
*Maximum Salary:* Increased from $46,200 to $50,000
*Minimum Salary:* Increased from $16,538 to $20,000


----------



## watfly (May 24, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Anyone else willing to take their daughter away from school and college to become a pro at 16 and make $20k a year?


Impossible to answer since none of our kids are OM.


----------



## MR.D (May 24, 2021)

Bethsoccer said:


> Holy Cow !!!  I thought NWSL pay more than this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What's the salary in Europe look like?


----------



## Bethsoccer (May 24, 2021)

Info from sportmob.com.

The female footballers' salary in France is 4,000 euros per month, which is 48,000 euros per year, or USD 53,000, on average. In England, the situation is almost the same, and a top female footballer earns around £35,000 a year (USD 43,000).


----------



## Bethsoccer (May 24, 2021)

Some hope.

*Highest Paid Female Footballers 2021:*

*Carli Lloyd - $518,000*
*Sam Kerr - $500,000*
*Alex Morgan - $450,000*
*Megan Rapinoe - $447,000*
*Julie Ertz - $430,000*
*Ada Hegerberg - $425,000*
*Marta - $400,000*
*Amandine Henry - $394,500*
*Wendie Renard - $392,000*
*Christine Sinclair - $380,000*


----------



## Squishy (May 24, 2021)

Bethsoccer said:


> Some hope.
> 
> *Highest Paid Female Footballers 2021:*
> 
> ...


What are the realistic odds of being on that list?  How long is the average career of a female soccer player?  The median salary for an anesthesiologist in the US is $396,000.  How long is the career of a physician?  I think the academic path is the better, don't you?


----------



## MSK357 (May 24, 2021)

Squishy said:


> What are the realistic odds of being on that list?  How long is the average career of a female soccer player?  The median salary for an anesthesiologist in the US is $396,000.  How long is the career of a physician?  I think the academic path is the better, don't you?


If money is your child's goal in life, then a career in soccer is probably not the best route to go unless they can supplement it.  Either way I am hoping the bulk of my kids wealth isn't generated by an employers salary. In this digital age the path to $$$ is no longer traditional.


----------



## OCsoccerdad7777 (May 24, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Anyone else willing to take their daughter away from school and college to become a pro at 16 and make $20k a year?


If my kid has the potential/drive and I had money to back her, 100% all day.
If I didn't have the money but kid has potential/drive, then probably lean towards college but not for sure.

Every situation/answer is different for each kid/family.


----------



## notintheface (May 24, 2021)

Olivia is good. I don't know if she's good enough to start in the NWSL, but she is good.

She is also, I fear, going to wind up being the answer to a "whatever happened to..." question.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 24, 2021)

Read the article put out by ESPN. Below are the  last two paragraphs. Found them absurd. This is not about fairness between the sexes, but ones own self interests led by a parent. This parental pursuit has also denied OM some basic aspects of life as a child. And, yes she has stated her ambitions, but anyone who has followed and knows this player understands everything they have done is not the right way to do it for her best interests.

“Immergut found Moultrie's argument -- that the *player's career would be damaged if not allowed to play* -- more compelling.”

"Plaintiff has presented persuasive evidence that each day that passes with the Age Rule in place represents a *missed opportunity for her potential professional soccer career.* Accordingly, this Court finds that the merits clearly favor Plaintiff's position and that she will be *irreparably harmed if this Court does not grant the TRO. *Furthermore, the balance of equities and the public interest strongly favor affording girls in the United States the same opportunities as boys."


----------



## Jose has returned (May 24, 2021)

dad4 said:


> First, you need to assume your child is destined to make 500K per year in WNT endorsements.
> 
> I don't think the parents are doing all this because they think she's got a chance to be a Thorns bench player.
> 
> (They're still nuts.  But it's Brazil nuts, not peanuts.)


Deez nuts?


----------



## whatithink (May 24, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Read the article put out by ESPN. Below are the  last two paragraphs. Found them absurd. This is not about fairness between the sexes, but ones own self interests led by a parent. This parental pursuit has also denied OM some basic aspects of life as a child. And, yes she has stated her ambitions, but anyone who has followed and knows this player understands everything they have done is not the right way to do it for her best interests.
> 
> “Immergut found Moultrie's argument -- that the *player's career would be damaged if not allowed to play* -- more compelling.”
> 
> "Plaintiff has presented persuasive evidence that each day that passes with the Age Rule in place represents a *missed opportunity for her potential professional soccer career.* Accordingly, this Court finds that the merits clearly favor Plaintiff's position and that she will be *irreparably harmed if this Court does not grant the TRO. *Furthermore, the balance of equities and the public interest strongly favor affording girls in the United States the same opportunities as boys."


Why do you find them absurd? I read the article below (linked) which gave quite a bit of information (I didn't have/know).

I do think there should be equitable treatment of boys/girls, so if the boys can then why not the girls? Girls mature (physically) earlier than boys, so if boys are making prof debuts at 16 or even 15 in leagues around the world, up to and including the elite leagues, why would a girl not be capable of the same?

The age restriction doesn't actually make sense from a playing or competitive perspective, which is basically what the judge is saying.

It may be moot if the players and league agree to insert it in the collective bargaining agreement, per the article.









						National Women’s Soccer League must let  15-year-old Olivia Moultrie compete, judge rules
					

U.S District Judge Karin J. Immergut Monday granted a temporary restraining order, requiring the National Women's Soccer League to lift its 18-year-old minimum age rule for players while it negotiates a contract with the players association.




					www.oregonlive.com


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 24, 2021)

whatithink said:


> Why do you find them absurd? I read the article below (linked) which gave quite a bit of information (I didn't have/know).
> 
> I do think there should be equitable treatment of boys/girls, so if the boys can then why not the girls? Girls mature (physically) earlier than boys, so if boys are making prof debuts at 16 or even 15 in leagues around the world, up to and including the elite leagues, why would a girl not be capable of the same?
> 
> ...


My point is not about the equity. This case is not about this. It’s just being used as a means. Which I stated. Rather who is driving this and why. A parent.


----------



## whatithink (May 24, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> My point is not about the equity. This case is not about this. It’s just being used as a means. Which I stated. Rather who is driving this and why. A parent.


OK, I don't have any insight into the Parent in this instance, so you may be 100% correct that this is being driven by the Dad, cited as the guardian.

That said, obviously, as a minor, the case has to be driven by an adult / parent / guardian.

Either way, the case does highlight an inequity that seems to exist for no particular reason.

I'm sure the players will be 100% on board with removing this restriction as part of their collective agreement in the name of equity and all that.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 24, 2021)

I don’t know how Nike is giving such a huge endorsement on a player that most have never heard of. Outside of a small circle of youth soccer fanatics, I doubt that her name has a strong following.    
Instagram has her with 130k followers and we all know that IG followers are inflated. Mallory Pugh has over 500k followers as a comparison.


----------



## Soccerfan2 (May 24, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I don’t know how Nike is giving such a huge endorsement on a player that most have never heard of. Outside of a small circle of youth soccer fanatics, I doubt that her name has a strong following.
> Instagram has her with 130k followers and we all know that IG followers are inflated. Mallory Pugh has over 500k followers as a comparison.


This is a few hundred thousand dollars. A small endorsement by Nike standards. She popped up when there was already a lot of conversation about the WNT and women’s soccer in general. Viewed like that it doesn’t seem like such a huge stretch, just a little experiment.


----------



## longbeachstrongbeach (May 24, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I don’t know how Nike is giving such a huge endorsement on a player that most have never heard of. Outside of a small circle of youth soccer fanatics, I doubt that her name has a strong following.
> Instagram has her with 130k followers and we all know that IG followers are inflated. Mallory Pugh has over 500k followers as a comparison.


Maybe she is really good?


----------



## GT45 (May 25, 2021)

Squishy said:


> What are the realistic odds of being on that list?  How long is the average career of a female soccer player?  The median salary for an anesthesiologist in the US is $396,000.  How long is the career of a physician?  I think the academic path is the better, don't you?


If your only goal is money, sure. Some people value quality of life and enjoyment more than the almighty dollar though. So if one wants to pursue their passion, they should.


----------



## MacDre (May 25, 2021)

I respect the hustle of the Moultries.  There were big announcements yesterday at practice for my kids team.  Thanks team OM!

Unfortunately, I think OM is going to have a serious problem getting playing time.  For example, look at how much time my kids friend has played since she was promoted to the first team:  https://www.ligafemenil.mx/cancha/jugador/145616/eyJpZENsdWIiOiAxMTE4MH0=/maria-ximena-santeliz-arvizu

Hopefully OM’s victory will force NWSL to implement a youth division for aspiring professional and college players like she did in liga mx yesterday.  Thanks again OM.









						Liga MX Femenil announces changes
					

The league will allow foreign players, establish a U17 division, and look to increase business partnerships in a bold new vision laid out by President Mikel Arriola.




					www.google.com
				





I


----------



## notintheface (May 25, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Hopefully OM’s victory will force NWSL to implement a youth division for aspiring professional and college players like she did in liga mx yesterday. Thanks again OM.


That's WPSL (or at least should be).


----------



## MacDre (May 25, 2021)

notintheface said:


> That's WPSL (or at least should be).


But isn’t WPSL only a 3 month summer league?  In Liga Mx Femenil the U17’s will essentially be a junior varsity team...why shouldn’t NWSL do the same?


----------



## notintheface (May 25, 2021)

MacDre said:


> But isn’t WPSL only a 3 month summer league?  In Liga Mx Femenil the U17’s will essentially be a junior varsity team...why shouldn’t NWSL do the same?


What do you think the college players are doing the rest of the year?

On edit: sorry, that's too much snark.

WPSL is fine. The overall pipeline isn't big enough for NWSL to need a year-long league 2 when you've got a thousand D1 kids ready to go.


----------



## Dubs (May 26, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I respect the hustle of the Moultries.  There were big announcements yesterday at practice for my kids team.  Thanks team OM!
> 
> Unfortunately, I think OM is going to have a serious problem getting playing time.  For example, look at how much time my kids friend has played since she was promoted to the first team:  https://www.ligafemenil.mx/cancha/jugador/145616/eyJpZENsdWIiOiAxMTE4MH0=/maria-ximena-santeliz-arvizu
> 
> ...


How popular is the women's league in Mexico?  I really have no idea so looking for some insight, as I have none in terms of the women's leagues in other countries.  It's safe to say they don't get nearly the viewership the men do, but I'm curious.  Investement is there, so there must be signs of life there.


----------



## Technician72 (May 26, 2021)

Dubs said:


> How popular is the women's league in Mexico?  I really have no idea so looking for some insight, as I have none in terms of the women's leagues in other countries.  It's safe to say they don't get nearly the viewership the men do, but I'm curious.  Investement is there, so there must be signs of life there.


It's getting there, from a strategy standpoint they're benefitting from being branches of the men's league. From facilities to the fanbase, they're really trying to keep it grounded and build something long term, something Mexico has struggled with in other areas such as the Olympic Teams / Program with their massive population. Now some teams are further along than others but the same can be said on the men's side.

The announcement that will be interesting to watch over the next few years will be the foreign player allotment per team. One of the biggest back and forth arguments in the men's league has been the same issue and how it affects the ability to develop players for the national teams in their own country.


----------



## MacDre (May 26, 2021)

Technician72 said:


> It's getting there, from a strategy standpoint they're benefitting from being branches of the men's league. From facilities to the fanbase, they're really trying to keep it grounded and build something long term, something Mexico has struggled with in other areas such as the Olympic Teams / Program with their massive population. Now some teams are further along than others but the same can be said on the men's side.
> 
> The announcement that will be interesting to watch over the next few years will be the foreign player allotment per team. One of the biggest back and forth arguments in the men's league has been the same issue and how it affects the ability to develop players for the national teams in their own country.


I also think it’s going to be interesting to see how the teams on the US/Mexico border (Xolo’s, Rayados, Tigres, and Juarez) engage with the US market and NWSL teams in the near future.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (May 26, 2021)

[


MacDre said:


> I also think it’s going to be interesting to see how the teams on the US/Mexico border (Xolo’s, Rayados, Tigres, and Juarez) engage with the US market and NWSL teams in the near future.


If the US keeps limiting  academy soccer market to the high income families,  other countries will catch up in 5 years.   Women’s soccer is growing quickly all over the world.


----------



## MacDre (May 26, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> [
> 
> If the US keeps limiting  academy soccer market to the high income families,  other countries will catch up in 5 years.   Women’s soccer is growing quickly all over the world.


Yep.  But I think access is limited AND development is delayed for financial gain.  

By 16 our top girls should be pro, in college, or doing some combination of the two.


----------



## espola (May 26, 2021)

The judge says she can try out and her local team has already said they would hire (it's in the court records).  Will she get into active play in the league?


----------



## MacDre (May 26, 2021)

espola said:


> The judge says she can try out and her local team has already said they would hire (it's in the court records).  Will she get into active play in the league?


Oops, the link I posted upthread about my kids friend doesn’t work.  I’ve attached a screenshot and you can see that she only played 65 minutes.  If you look at other teams, some of teens have more minutes and some have 0 minutes for the entire Clasura tournament.

I don’t think OM is putting Horan on the bench anytime soon.  Maybe she can sub in for Horan at around minute 70 to start and get some minutes during the Olympics.

It’s time to fish or cut bait for OM.  I wish her well.


----------



## Bethsoccer (May 26, 2021)

Has any one had experience with IME / Conade from Mexico?  It's a team based in Orange County that takes Mexican - US born player (Not Hispanic), and then play at the Conade tournament in Mexico.  What I have been told it's similar to junior Olympics.


----------



## focomoso (May 28, 2021)

Bethsoccer said:


> Holy Cow !!!  I thought NWSL pay more than this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was like, "That's not so bad..." then I reread "salary cap" and not "max salary..."


----------



## SoccerLocker (Jun 17, 2021)

Judge grants preliminary injunction against NWSL age rule, in favor of OM.


----------



## Dubs (Jun 18, 2021)

That's all fine and dandy, but is she actually going to take playing time away from the women that are currently on that roster?  I'm honestly curious.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jun 18, 2021)

Dubs said:


> That's all fine and dandy, but is she actually going to take playing time away from the women that are currently on that roster?  I'm honestly curious.


Your key word is "women". For example, the average age on Portland Thorns is 26.5 and the range is between 20-36. Now add the physical and athletic development. You now have a huge discrepancy just on this aspect along. Then add the experience of all these players which includes 7 with USWNT experience(which is vast), all with college and professional. She is years away from being a viable option.


----------



## SoccerLocker (Jun 18, 2021)

Dubs said:


> That's all fine and dandy, but is she actually going to take playing time away from the women that are currently on that roster?  I'm honestly curious.


Hard to tell, but 4 or 5 teams inquired about her availability after the first stay was issued.  I would defer to the market here, which magically appeared after the stay was issued.


----------



## lafalafa (Jun 18, 2021)

Dubs said:


> That's all fine and dandy, but is she actually going to take playing time away from the women that are currently on that roster?  I'm honestly curious.


Women 2nd leagues are in the works and USL W is going to start up again








						Home | uslwleague.com
					

View information about USL W League.




					www.uslwleague.com
				




Thorns not in it so far but for young player's bridging the Gap and getting experience playing in games this could be a option for some just like it is for 16-19 men's in the various USL offers.


----------



## MacDre (Jun 18, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Women 2nd leagues are in the works and USL W is going to start up again
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I initially got excited when I saw this.  Not so excited now that it looks like this will be a summer league in direct competition with WPSL. 

 Am I missing something?


----------



## Dubs (Jun 18, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Your key word is "women". For example, the average age on Portland Thorns is 26.5 and the range is between 20-36. Now add the physical and athletic development. You now have a huge discrepancy just on this aspect along. Then add the experience of all these players which includes 7 with USWNT experience(which is vast), all with college and professional. She is years away from being a viable option.


That was my thought exactly.


----------



## MacDre (Jun 18, 2021)

Dubs said:


> That was my thought exactly.


I have never seen OM play in person but I am familiar with a few of the Mexican girls that she played against in the 2018 U15 CONCACAF championship.  I think several of those Mexican girls have a comparable skillset (although Jaedyn Shaw is probably a little better) to OM.  Those Mexican girls are struggling to get minutes in a supposedly inferior league ( Liga MX Femenil) and I have been informed that inferior/lower leagues are being established to correct the problem.

So if the Mexican girls can’t get minutes, how the hell is OM going to get meaningful minutes in the supposedly best women’s league in the world?


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jun 18, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I have never seen OM play in person but I am familiar with a few of the Mexican girls that she played against in the 2018 U15 CONCACAF championship.  I think several of those Mexican girls have a comparable skillset (although Jaedyn Shaw is probably a little better) to OM.  Those Mexican girls are struggling to get minutes in a supposedly inferior league ( Liga MX Femenil) and I have been informed that inferior/lower leagues are being established to correct the problem.
> 
> So if the Mexican girls can’t get minutes, how the hell is OM going to get meaningful minutes in the supposedly best women’s league in the world?


Exactly! Going back to that game against Mexico. She was a invisible. They pulled her and in the second put in SC. Changed the game.


----------



## GT45 (Jun 18, 2021)

I suspect she will get some play time for marketing purposes. The club and league will get a lot of media attention if/when she plays.


----------



## espola (Jun 18, 2021)

GT45 said:


> I suspect she will get some play time for marketing purposes. The club and league will get a lot of media attention if/when she plays.


Not if she does badly.


----------



## pokergod (Jun 18, 2021)

espola said:


> Not if she does badly.


I have met OM and her dad a couple of times and seen her play a few times at the DA level down south.  They were both quite pleasant.  I'm rooting for her.  She has incredible skills.  However, how she deals with the speed and size at these higher levels is going to be really interesting to watch.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jun 18, 2021)

pokergod said:


> I have met OM and her dad a couple of times and seen her play a few times at the DA level down south.  They were both quite pleasant.  I'm rooting for her.  She has incredible skills.  However, how she deals with the speed and size at these higher levels is going to be really interesting to watch.


There is another side to KC.


----------



## GT45 (Jun 18, 2021)

espola said:


> Not if she does badly.


They would still get a lot of attention if she does badly. Sure her play will be limited regardless because I doubt she is ready. But if they give her minutes one time it will get a lot of attention.


----------



## MacDre (Jun 18, 2021)

pokergod said:


> I have met OM and her dad a couple of times and seen her play a few times at the DA level down south.  They were both quite pleasant.  I'm rooting for her.  She has incredible skills.  However, how she deals with the speed and size at these higher levels is going to be really interesting to watch.


I am rooting for her too.  Game recognizes game.  My concern is that there are others just as good or better that are not being given equal opportunity.  Why?


----------



## ToonArmy (Jun 18, 2021)

pokergod said:


> I have met OM and her dad a couple of times and seen her play a few times at the DA level down south.  They were both quite pleasant.  I'm rooting for her.  She has incredible skills.  However, how she deals with the speed and size at these higher levels is going to be really interesting to watch.


I saw her play in person when she was very young she is the same age as my daughter and she was on another level. Since then I have only seen highlights and I agree it looks like she still has incredible skill but I also am wondering and maybe even doubting if athletically she is still on another level in terms of speed quickness and stength when it comes to the higher and top adult levels


----------



## pokergod (Jun 18, 2021)

ToonArmy said:


> I saw her play in person when she was very young she is the same age as my daughter and she was on another level. Since then I have only seen highlights and I agree it looks like she still has incredible skill but I also am wondering and maybe even doubting if athletically she is still on another level in terms of speed quickness and stength when it comes to the higher and top adult levels


I think that is the strange component of this story for everyone who has kids playing high level youth sports.  For a parent to make future plans for a kid before they are fully developed is strange.  The fact that Nike and a pro club made that decision is shocking.  Especially for women youth sports-- the best players at 11/12 are not the best at 15/16.  To go further, at the club level we have seen the very best of the best leave for a pac-10 school and then disappear.  Rarely to play.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jun 18, 2021)

ToonArmy said:


> I saw her play in person when she was very young she is the same age as my daughter and she was on another level. Since then I have only seen highlights and I agree it looks like she still has incredible skill but I also am wondering and maybe even doubting if athletically she is still on another level in terms of speed quickness and stength when it comes to the higher and top adult levels


She is not.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jun 18, 2021)

Sandypk said:


> Money, social media hype, politics, manipulation of video clips, use of people and teams for their benefit, playing the “marketing“ game.  If anything, KC is good at selling a product.  OM is his merchandise.  I hope she does well, for her sake.


Thank you.


----------



## Husky13 (Jun 19, 2021)

Many of the comments above mirror what we see on the boys’ side.  Scouts lock into players at age 11-12.  Player gets propped up for years, almost regardless of performance (I am not saying this is all true of OM).  Player gets signed to first team at 16, even though clearly not ready and can’t even perform or contribute at USL level.  Meanwhile, other kids have advanced and become better, but are second fiddle.  Combination of “scouts/organization have locked in and need to prove themselves right” and marketing.  Evaluation of performance in games is so subjective in soccer that they can get away with it for a while.


----------



## crush (Jun 19, 2021)

Husky13 said:


> Many of the comments above mirror what we see on the boys’ side.  Scouts lock into players at age 11-12.  Player gets propped up for years, almost regardless of performance (I am not saying this is all true of OM).  Player gets signed to first team at 16, even though clearly not ready and can’t even perform or contribute at USL level.  Meanwhile, other kids have advanced and become better, but are second fiddle.  Combination of “scouts/organization have locked in and need to prove themselves right” and marketing.  Evaluation of performance in games is so subjective in soccer that they can get away with it for a while.


Girls are not boys either physically and their body was also made to have babies and will change.  This was my big rub back when my girl was 12. Grown men telling dads that if your dd plays 24/7 soccer 365 days out of the year they to could be pro, just like those boys....lol!!!!  A true coach for girls will say, "I don't know the true physical ability of a female until their 17.  Get back to me when goat has "physically developed."  Why?  If you have a girl that has gone from 11 to 17, you will figure it out.


----------



## Giesbock (Jun 19, 2021)

ToonArmy said:


> I saw her play in person when she was very young she is the same age as my daughter and she was on another level. Since then I have only seen highlights and I agree it looks like she still has incredible skill but I also am wondering and maybe even doubting if athletically she is still on another level in terms of speed quickness and stength when it comes to the higher and top adult levels


The speed quickness and strength gap closes at top levels of any sport. Swimmers miss the US National team over .05 second differential in a 400 M race. That’s being out touched by 1/4 inch. When my player was young, she’d run the field and score. Again and again. Not a magical soccer protege. Just faster and could run and kick the ball. Today? Yeah she’s still fast but so are all the other players on the field.  Gap closed.
A guy who has seen Olivia play and train a lot told me that she clearly has superior technical skills than many of the pros she’s up against. It’s gonna come down to all the other stuff cause hard to deploy that perfect helicopter move when two defenders are there to shut it down.  But hey, she’s creating an opportunity to play up, learn from and compete with the best and see how she stacks up rather than settle in.  With her Nike deal does she even get to go head to head with players her own age anymore?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 19, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I am rooting for her too.  Game recognizes game.  My concern is that there are others just as good or better that are not being given equal opportunity.  Why?


It’s not so much about opportunity as it is how hard your parents are willing/able to push boundaries.


----------



## SoccerLocker (Jun 19, 2021)

Husky13 said:


> Many of the comments above mirror what we see on the boys’ side.  Scouts lock into players at age 11-12.  Player gets propped up for years, almost regardless of performance (I am not saying this is all true of OM).  Player gets signed to first team at 16, even though clearly not ready and can’t even perform or contribute at USL level.  Meanwhile, other kids have advanced and become better, but are second fiddle.  Combination of “scouts/organization have locked in and need to prove themselves right” and marketing.  Evaluation of performance in games is so subjective in soccer that they can get away with it for a while.


This is exactly the point.  As more money comes into women's soccer, it's inevitable.  It's really moot if she is a generational talent or not (Freddy Add anyone?), more that she is advancing the opportunities for girls behind her.


----------



## MacDre (Jun 19, 2021)

Sandypk said:


> Money, social media hype, politics, manipulation of video clips, use of people and teams for their benefit, playing the “marketing“ game.  If anything, KC is good at selling a product.  OM is his merchandise.  I hope she does well, for her sake.


Thanks for sharing because I was starting to think that I am biased because of my personal situation.


----------



## MacDre (Jun 19, 2021)

pokergod said:


> * The fact that Nike and a pro club made that decision is shocking*.


I am relatively certain the marketing is a complete farce according to my research:
1.  Heather Paulson is a Nike VP and owner of the Portland Thorns/Timbers;
2.  Anson Dorrance’s UNC team is sponsored by Nike; and
3.  All of OM’s “professional trials” were set up by her well connected agent.

I’ve heard about KC, but it seems to me that the Paulsons and Dorrance are the biggest liars.


----------



## crush (Jun 19, 2021)

Giesbock said:


> *The speed quickness and strength gap closes at top levels of any sport*. Swimmers miss the US National team over .05 second differential in a 400 M race. That’s being out touched by 1/4 inch. When my player was young, she’d run the field and score. Again and again. Not a magical soccer protege. Just faster and could run and kick the ball. Today? Yeah she’s still fast but so are all the other players on the field.  Gap closed.
> A guy who has seen Olivia play and train a lot told me that she clearly has superior technical skills than many of the pros she’s up against. It’s gonna come down to all the other stuff cause hard to deploy that perfect helicopter move when two defenders are there to shut it down.  But hey, she’s creating an opportunity to play up, learn from and compete with the best and see how she stacks up rather than settle in.  With her Nike deal does she even get to go head to head with players her own age anymore?


Excellent take.  I will just lay it out for you guys.  She does not have the speed, quickness or ganas to play right now at the highest pro level and I dont see it every happening, MOO!  Skills with thrills is awesome until someone who is faster and stronger comes along and disrupts your skills program and knocks you on your ass...lol!  Any player with skills has to use brain and quickness to get out of a physical attack.  If your not known to pass the rock to others, well then you will be left alone to get out of impossible soccer situation.  Only the triangle and give and go works, MOO! Like so many have said, she is very talented and I wish her the best.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 19, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I’ve heard about KC, but it seems to me that the Paulsons and Dorrance are the biggest liars.


Interesting take, how so?


----------



## MacDre (Jun 19, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Interesting take, how so?


The way that I see it is that Heather Paulson runs shit at Nike because she’s a VP and at Thorns because she is an owner.  I also think Mrs. Paulson is using her access to resources at Nike to get around the NWSL salary cap so she can stack her team with talent while remaining within the rules.  I wonder how many of the teams that put in a discovery request for OM are sponsored by Nike?

I feel like Dorrance is saying and doing whatever Heather Paulson wants to keep the Nike money flowing to UNC.


----------



## crush (Jun 19, 2021)

MacDre said:


> The way that I see it is that Heather Paulson runs shit at Nike because she’s a VP and at Thorns because she is an owner.  I also think Mrs. Paulson is using her access to resources at Nike to get around the NWSL salary cap so she can stack her team with talent while remaining within the rules.  I wonder how many of the teams that put in a discovery request for OM are sponsored by Nike?
> 
> I feel like Dorrance is saying and doing whatever Heather Paulson wants to keep the Nike money flowing to UNC.


I feel like were all playing, "Connect the dots."  My head is spinning with this new information I knew nothing about....lol........jk.  I remember many top 05s and 04s were being approached with pro back in 2016.  I hope by now Dre you know my writing style and you know 100% I was never going to let my goat go pro and let her move up to the Northwest for soccer residency with grown woman.  Like I said so many other times, I did approach my dd with the idea of soccer boarding school and she was 100% a no for that life style and actually told me to never bring up that stupid idea ever again.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jun 19, 2021)

It will be interesting to see how many 15 to 17 year old girls will make it to the pro’s in the next 5 Years. This ruling is definitely viewed as equal opportunity for women.  I just don’t think you will see too many players/parents  willing to make that jump to pros at such a young age.  The money doesn’t make sense, injuries will happen, and you miss out on being a teenager and/or going to college.


----------



## Yousername (Jun 19, 2021)

A lot of talk about OM matching physicality with older players, but there’s also the mental maturity to factor in as well. She’s been the best on every pitch all this time, but when she’s no longer the best, does she have the mental fortitude to press on, or will that get under her skin and make her lose her mental toughness. 
My daughter guested for a coach once- players we’re all college age and older. She was still a freshman in HS at the time. Playing keeper. While she enjoyed the experience, I remember her saying it was really hard because, as she put it, “it felt like they didn’t want to listen to some dumb high schooler telling them what to do from the goalie spot.” Everywhere else she had played, her team would listen to her direction as a keeper. But put her on a team where there was a huge age gap, she started questioning herself and clamming up. 
I wish OM well. I am hopeful that these kinds of moves allow young women to have multiple options to higher level sports- not just through the college system. But in addition to the physical matchup disparities, I wonder how she’s going to fare mentally. Just my $.02.


----------



## espola (Jun 19, 2021)

SoccerLocker said:


> This is exactly the point.  As more money comes into women's soccer, it's inevitable.  It's really moot if she is a generational talent or not (Freddy Add anyone?), more that she is advancing the opportunities for girls behind her.


Freddy Adu wasn't a total bust as his long pro and international career can attest.  But he also wasn't the miracle player that was going to win us the World Cup.

Pointless aside -- I was at Torero Stadium at USD the day he got into his first MNT game in a friendly against Canada, coming in as a late substitution.  He assured his place on the game report by promptly picking up a yellow card.


----------



## Dubs (Jun 19, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I have never seen OM play in person but I am familiar with a few of the Mexican girls that she played against in the 2018 U15 CONCACAF championship.  I think several of those Mexican girls have a comparable skillset (although Jaedyn Shaw is probably a little better) to OM.  Those Mexican girls are struggling to get minutes in a supposedly inferior league ( Liga MX Femenil) and I have been informed that inferior/lower leagues are being established to correct the problem.
> 
> So if the Mexican girls can’t get minutes, how the hell is OM going to get meaningful minutes in the supposedly best women’s league in the world?


Precisely


----------



## suzysoccer1 (Jun 20, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I am rooting for her too.  Game recognizes game.  My concern is that there are others just as good or better that are not being given equal opportunity.  Why?


You know why


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 20, 2021)

suzysoccer1 said:


> You know why


Care to elaborate?


----------



## Anon9 (Jun 30, 2021)

Thorns' Moultrie, 15, youngest to sign NWSL deal
					

Olivia Moultrie, 15, has signed a three-year deal with the Portland Thorns of the National Women's Soccer League, the club announced on Wednesday.




					www.espn.com


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jun 30, 2021)

Anon9 said:


> Thorns' Moultrie, 15, youngest to sign NWSL deal
> 
> 
> Olivia Moultrie, 15, has signed a three-year deal with the Portland Thorns of the National Women's Soccer League, the club announced on Wednesday.
> ...


What happens when they don’t play her? They get taken to court too?


----------



## espola (Jun 30, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> What happens when they don’t play her? They get taken to court too?


Or worse, what if they cut her?


----------



## crush (Jun 30, 2021)

She did it!!  I just looked at ESPN for the first time in over a month and she is front page news.  Trinity R got the game winner the other night.  Luis dd next?  Blues developed both of these girls when the were young players and deserve some compensation as well.  Sharing can go a long way.  My dd had the honor to battle both every week for two years.  Pro is right around the corner now for any female who puts in the hard work.  She did it at 15. Congrats 100%


----------



## myself (Jun 30, 2021)

crush said:


> She did it!!  I just looked at ESPN for the first time in over a month and she is front page news.  Trinity R got the game winner the other night.  Luis dd next?  Blues developed both of these girls when the were young players and deserve some compensation as well.  Sharing can go a long way.  My dd had the honor to battle both every week for two years.  Pro is right around the corner now for any female who puts in the hard work.  She did it at 15. Congrats 100%


If you're paying an arm and a leg for your daughter to potentially make less than a barista at Starbucks (and have less education than the hypothetical barista), then God bless you. Lucky for this young lady her parents have some money, because the worst case scenario is that she washes out of the pros before she's even a legal adult. This isn't similar to a Freddy Adu situation where he bounces out of MLS, but can then go make a living overseas; the money already sucks in women's pro soccer. I'm hoping this young lady succeeds and doesn't become a cautionary tale.


----------



## warrior49 (Jun 30, 2021)

"Don't worry hun, we will litigate you to greatness"


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jun 30, 2021)

warrior49 said:


> "Don't worry hun, we will litigate you to greatness"


that’s the spirit.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jul 3, 2021)

Sooo, curious if anyone watched the debut and if it was as exciting as everyone hoped for?


----------



## espola (Jul 4, 2021)

Soccer43 said:


> Sooo, curious if anyone watched the debut and if it was as exciting as everyone hoped for?


_It was a relatively uneventful debut for the rookie, as late-game debuts often are.

At one point she received a pass and was immediately closed in by two Louisville defenders and she passed it back. Later, she dribbled into the box and slipped a pass to Sophia Smith, who then had a cross blocked. She made a trailing run on a counterattack and was open to get the ball, but the play died before she could._









						15-year-old Olivia Moultrie finally makes NWSL debut as Thorns beat Racing Louisville FC
					

The Thorns won and teenage phenom Olivia Moultrie made her pro debut.




					www.oregonlive.com


----------



## Giesbock (Jul 4, 2021)

Give her a chance. If she were your kid, you (collectively) would be super proud of her.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jul 4, 2021)

I wish her whatever success she can achieve.  What I don’t like is the hype about it all and the idea that she is a trail blazer for all young female soccer players.  That is not the dream for my daughter.  I want my daughter to go to college and play professionally after college.  I don’t see being a professional soccer player at 15 as some big dream.  Why do I want my teenager skipping high school and not having relationships with her peers?  Why would I want my teenage daughter spending all her time with adult women that have adult lives that my teenager is not living?  Why would I want my player to be striving to make the small salary that most professional female soccer players make?  This argument would be 100% different for me if the salary potential  was like men’s professional sports?  all great things require risk but to have the risk of being a 19 or 20 year old with no college degree and a soccer career that didn’t pan out as expected doesn’t appeal to me.  I am most proud of my player choosing college and having that be part of her dream and her future, not chasing a professional contract at this age.  Stop making it like this is the holy grail.  This is a dream for her and her family but it is not the dream for everyone.


----------



## Soccerhelper (Jul 4, 2021)

Soccer43 said:


> *I wish her whatever success she can achieve*.  What I don’t like is the hype about it all and the idea that she is a trail blazer for all young female soccer players.  *That is not the dream for my daughter.  I want my daughter to go to college and play professionally after college.*  I don’t see being a professional soccer player at 15 as some big dream.  Why do I want my teenager skipping high school and not having relationships with her peers?  Why would I want my teenage daughter spending all her time with adult women that have adult lives that my teenager is not living?  Why would I want my player to be striving to make the small salary that most professional female soccer players make?  This argument would be 100% different for me if the salary potential  was like men’s professional sports?  all great things require risk but to have the risk of being a 19 or 20 year old with no college degree and a soccer career that didn’t pan out as expected doesn’t appeal to me.  I am most proud of my player choosing college and having that be part of her dream and her future, not chasing a professional contract at this age.  Stop making it like this is the holy grail.  This is a dream for her and her family but it is not the dream for everyone.


Not everyone thinks like you and your dd.  Let me help you out bro.  First off, freedom of choice is the key here.  Freedom to choose full time soccer and get paid under 18 years old for a female or full time soccer + full time school and no pay=full time soccer in college and full time study for 99.9% of the rest of the girls.  My dd is all in for four years of college and is now looking to set up two more official visits.  Personally, it would be my dream if she skipped college all together and got paid to play soccer.  However, it's her life, not mine   My dd and I have personal experience with OM when she was becoming the best 2023 in the country ((according to some scouts.  I think AT is the best 2023 and 100% could handle pro right now)) at the Blues for two years back in the day.  She LOVES to play soccer and train 24/7.  I'm serious.  She is a trailblazer for all female soccer players under 18 that want to go pro and get some dough.  I have a friend who has a dd who is 13 and home schooled and all she does is soccer soccer and more soccer.  She is so good they are thinking of moving to Spain to train.  Lot's of choices for anyone with a dream.  Happy 4th of July Soccer43.


----------



## OrangeCountyDad (Jul 4, 2021)

you all know that colleges will let you enroll even after you drop out of pro sports?


----------



## suzysoccer1 (Jul 4, 2021)

Soccerhelper said:


> Not everyone thinks like you and your dd.  Let me help you out bro.  First off, freedom of choice is the key here.  Freedom to choose full time soccer and get paid under 18 years old for a female or full time soccer + full time school and no pay=full time soccer in college and full time study for 99.9% of the rest of the girls.  My dd is all in for four years of college and is now looking to set up two more official visits.  Personally, it would be my dream if she skipped college all together and got paid to play soccer.  However, it's her life, not mine   My dd and I have personal experience with OM when she was becoming the best 2023 in the country ((according to some scouts.  I think AT is the best 2023 and 100% could handle pro right now)) at the Blues for two years back in the day.  She LOVES to play soccer and train 24/7.  I'm serious.  She is a trailblazer for all female soccer players under 18 that want to go pro and get some dough.  I have a friend who has a dd who is 13 and home schooled and all she does is soccer soccer and more soccer.  She is so good they are thinking of moving to Spain to train.  Lot's of choices for anyone with a dream.  Happy 4th of July Soccer43.


Being good is a given, in this situation good/talent didn’t really matter did it. What really mattered was money, power and resolve. Her parents have the means to do things most won’t and honestly can’t. Right now there are 10-15 players in the 05-03 age range who could be training and maybe earn a roster spot with a NWSL team. All can’t because in reality they don’t have the power to do so. Wasserman is not going to be their agent, Nike is not behind them, and most parents are not hiring a legal team. Getting an good agent, lawyer, accountant, PR, and team around you costs money. Moving to Spain costs money. FIFA is going to stop you there also.  Even with a EU passport. Training yes maybe, no way you ever play a real game. No club right now risks it. Even if the kid is good. Clubs already have good and most don’t need to import it from America. In the end my point is, good for this girl for getting in the game and doing her thing. But I don’t think this moves the needle at all for other players this season or next, just her. This fight was her fight alone and is less about trail blazing for others and more for her to be first. The next player who try’s is also in for fight as well.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 4, 2021)

suzysoccer1 said:


> Being good is a given, in this situation good/talent didn’t really matter did it. What really mattered was money, power and resolve. Her parents have the means to do things most won’t and honestly can’t. Right now there are 10-15 players in the 05-03 age range who could be training and maybe earn a roster spot with a NWSL team. All can’t because in reality they don’t have the power to do so. Wasserman is not going to be their agent, Nike is not behind them, and most parents are not hiring a legal team. Getting an good agent, lawyer, accountant, PR, and team around you costs money. Moving to Spain costs money. FIFA is going to stop you there also.  Even with a EU passport. Training yes maybe, no way you ever play a real game. No club right now risks it. Even if the kid is good. Clubs already have good and most don’t need to import it from America. In the end my point is, good for this girl for getting in the game and doing her thing. But I don’t think this moves the needle at all for other players this season or next, just her. This fight was her fight alone and is less about trail blazing for others and more for her to be first. The next player who try’s is also in for fight as well.


The court order applies to the NWSL as a whole. They aren't allowed to enforce the age limit against anyone.

But it is moot.  Most parents see more value in a Stanford scholarship or Harvard admission than in an NWSL contract.  

And they are right.  A female soccer player can't make real money without cracking the long term WNT roster.  And, even if you are a top 10 player,  your odds of doing that are less than 10%.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jul 5, 2021)

dad4 said:


> The court order applies to the NWSL as a whole. They aren't allowed to enforce the age limit against anyone.
> 
> But it is moot.  Most parents see more value in a Stanford scholarship or Harvard admission than in an NWSL contract.
> 
> And they are right.  A female soccer player can't make real money without cracking the long term WNT roster.  And, even if you are a top 10 player,  your odds of doing that are less than 10%.


That is exactly my point.  Families and players can choose whatever path they want - I am all about choice.  If a 15 year dreams about playing pro at that age and they have the ability to make it happen I am all for that.  

As I said before, the end game on the revenue for most female professional sports is short.   Even if players go pro at 15 or 16 there are only a few spots on the WNT roster and that is what you have to get to if you want real money.  I would think that AS, SS, and MP would hope to be first in line for those roster spots as they have sacrificed and worked hard as much as OM has.  I don't know that OM will be better than them or others that come along when those spots open up.  MP was a superstar and on the fast track and her path has gotten sidetracked with some lingering injuries and obstacles.  Much can happen along the way.    

What I object to is the glorification of all of this, as this is the dream and should be the dream of all teenage female players and that going pro as early as you can is the holy grail.    Choosing to take a "traditional route" is just as legitimate and worthwhile and a variety of options should be open to young female athletes.  I also look at this from a social-emotional development perspective.  If it were my player I would be a bit sad about my 15-year-old being alone on the road with adult women out living adult lives when they aren't on the field while my 15 year isn't old enough to join in on any of that (drinking, adult sexual relationships, having children, getting married, etc).  What does she have in common with them from a social-emotional stance in terms of having meaningful relationships with her now "peers"?


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 7, 2021)

Simple questions-

If Olivia was born into a middle class family with two working parents, would she be in the same situation?

If any top player from a major club was born into the Moultrie Household, would they have the same outcome?

How many households can afford to build their own turf field in their backyard, a full-time personal trainer and full-time at home schooling?

Do Christian Pulisic and Claudio Reyna share similar/same but different privileges'? 

If any Billionaire gave their 15 year old kid $10m dollars to start a business after going to the best private school and the business was successful, would you be impressed?

Answer these questions on your own and perhaps you will fully understand how hard this is to achieve. It's the players that push through the lack of privileges' and succeed at the highest level that should be celebrated and not kids like Olivia, Christian, and Claudio. It's people like Ronaldo and Mal Pugh who are truly examples of kids that beat the odds.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 7, 2021)

MARsSPEED said:


> It's people like Ronaldo and Mal Pugh who are truly examples of kids that beat the odds.


I recently learned about ronaldinho’s shoe story.  Very sad but very inspirational.   









						"My father said that it was better to play barefoot football to better handle the ball, but the truth was that he had no money to buy me a football shoe, so when I received my first golden ball, I did not cry for joy, I cried for not having my father" Ronaldinho. - Football
					

688 points • 30 comments




					9gag.com


----------



## outside! (Jul 7, 2021)

MARsSPEED said:


> Simple questions-
> 
> If Olivia was born into a middle class family with two working parents, would she be in the same situation?
> 
> ...


While I agree, Olivia's case did open the door for other young women.


----------



## what-happened (Jul 7, 2021)

outside! said:


> While I agree, *Olivia's case did open the door for other young women.*


We tend to forget that she is indeed talented.  She's been punching above her weight class for some time.  At 15, she demonstrates maturity and soccer knowledge beyond her years.  She's always done that.  Good for her.  Who knows what comes of this.  At 13 people were saying by 15 she was going to be a wash. She's 15 now, has grown 7 inches, and can play/practice against pros.  Yes, there are other Academy players that have demonstrated the same qualities.  None this young.

Say whatever you want about the approach the parents are taking.  Someone has to watch out for her - that's what parents are for.  She's no dummy, knows she's in the cross hairs of many.  Hopefully she keeps her head down and continues to do the work.  Anything that elevates the NWSL is a good thing.  Hopefully this young lady doesn't get exploited, doesn't get burnt out, and is able to play on her own terms.


----------



## OrangeCountyDad (Jul 8, 2021)

outside! said:


> While I agree, Olivia's case did open the door for other young women.


this is kind of an important point.  With the prior rule of 'no one under 18' there was no reason for other teams to identify, scout, develop younger players. at least not that young.  If the decision stands where the NWSL can't discriminate against someone under 18, when there are no other reasons to do so, it opens the option for teams to broaden their scope.

I don't know the answer to this, but did the league/teams tend to pick new players primarily from college and college graduates? if so, that alone creates a barrier for many kids who can't afford or don't want to go to college.  Removing that artificially placed barrier expands the pool of players available for selection.  that seems like a win for everyone.


----------



## Patandpats (Jul 8, 2021)

MARsSPEED said:


> Simple questions-
> 
> If Olivia was born into a middle class family with two working parents, would she be in the same situation?
> 
> ...


How about we just root for kids to succeed?  Seems to me that a lot of people here are rooting against Olivia. Yes she had advantages. Gio Reyna and Pulisic had advantages that their parents played and knew what to do.  Danny Leyva signed with the Sounders at 15 and is the son of recent immigrants. Caden Clark has a Dad who trains pro athletes. We are all soon going to know the name Chris Olney Jr.  He's in a great situation with PDA that he wouldn't be in if he grew up in a different state and will be with the Union next year even though he's only 14.  Every story is different, but at the end of the day it's about rooting for kids to succeed.


----------



## what-happened (Jul 8, 2021)

Patandpats said:


> How about we just root for kids to succeed?  Seems to me that a lot of people here are rooting against Olivia. Yes she had advantages. Gio Reyna and Pulisic had advantages that their parents played and knew what to do.  Danny Leyva signed with the Sounders at 15 and is the son of recent immigrants. Caden Clark has a Dad who trains pro athletes. We are all soon going to know the name Chris Olney Jr.  He's in a great situation with PDA that he wouldn't be in if he grew up in a different state and will be with the Union next year even though he's only 14.  Every story is different, but at the end of the day it's about rooting for kids to succeed.


And she's good, just like all of the players you've mentioned in the post.  She's no longer an awkward 13 yr old with really good feet and brains.  She's grown( maybe still growing) into her body.


----------



## Emma (Jul 8, 2021)

Soccer43 said:


> That is exactly my point.  Families and players can choose whatever path they want - I am all about choice.  If a 15 year dreams about playing pro at that age and they have the ability to make it happen I am all for that.
> 
> As I said before, the end game on the revenue for most female professional sports is short.   Even if players go pro at 15 or 16 there are only a few spots on the WNT roster and that is what you have to get to if you want real money.  I would think that AS, SS, and MP would hope to be first in line for those roster spots as they have sacrificed and worked hard as much as OM has.  I don't know that OM will be better than them or others that come along when those spots open up.  MP was a superstar and on the fast track and her path has gotten sidetracked with some lingering injuries and obstacles.  Much can happen along the way.
> 
> What I object to is the glorification of all of this, as this is the dream and should be the dream of all teenage female players and that going pro as early as you can is the holy grail.    Choosing to take a "traditional route" is just as legitimate and worthwhile and a variety of options should be open to young female athletes.  I also look at this from a social-emotional development perspective.  If it were my player I would be a bit sad about my 15-year-old being alone on the road with adult women out living adult lives when they aren't on the field while my 15 year isn't old enough to join in on any of that (drinking, adult sexual relationships, having children, getting married, etc).  What does she have in common with them from a social-emotional stance in terms of having meaningful relationships with her now "peers"?


I'm very supportive of Olivia and think the world of her parents for the support they have given her.  However, I don't think most of us supporters look at her path as the holy grail bc it would not be the route for my children bc they wouldn't want to travel her path.  I appreciate that she didn't let anyone force her to go the route currently available and paved a different path for future players who would like to have the option she is creating.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 8, 2021)

I am happy for OM.  However, I’m not feeling all of the “trailblazer” hype and “opening of doors” hype that’s being promoted.  You see, my daughter wants to take a similar path as OM and I have been told that she’s just as qualified.

But, while Wasserman is responsive to my communications they’ve had me on hold for over six months, nothing from Nike or the NWSL.

So, I am happy OM made her professional debut but please miss me with the BS about her creating a new path because that’s not my kids current reality.


----------



## Jose has returned (Jul 8, 2021)

damn sour grapes.  She has the talent. She won the DNA lottery. Blues had nothing to do with her or TR they were blessed with gifts or else you would see thousands of former Blues player playing professionally. .  They put in the work.  I would bet they were doing stuff on their own without extra coaching.  a lot of parents have their kids in extra training and your daughter is still only average. You got to have talent and work hard.
Who gives a flying F her family put in turf? like turf is going to make them better? GTFOH. They could have gone to the local park and kicked a ball and dribbled all day long.  She did it your kid did not if they did they would have signed a contract or, or, or they don't have her talent  
Many parents work hard so their kids have a chance at better than they had it evidently her parents worked hard and did just that.   Talent and work is the key here.  Nobody's kid here is that good or that hungry no matter what they BS about.  

Good luck young lady good for you.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 8, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I am happy for OM.  However, I’m not feeling all of the “trailblazer” hype and “opening of doors” hype that’s being promoted.  You see, my daughter wants to take a similar path as OM and I have been told that she’s just as qualified.
> 
> But, while Wasserman is responsive to my communications they’ve had me on hold for over six months, nothing from Nike or the NWSL.
> 
> So, I am happy OM made her professional debut but please miss me with the BS about her creating a new path because that’s not my kids current reality.


Just because your kid can't take that path doesn't mean she's not a trailblazer. One day there will be another OM and she will not have to take legal action to go pro, that is trailblazing. It's a path that wasn't an option before her.


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Jul 8, 2021)

For sure Moultrie is the first of more to come, and yes, she opened up an option that wasn’t previously available. She had help along the way from more than just her parents. A lot of people believe in her, for good reason. More options are always good. Different people choose different paths for many different reasons. Wishing her all the best. She is a talented and very dedicated and hard working young girl.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 8, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> Just because your kid can't take that path doesn't mean she's not a trailblazer. One day there will be another OM and she will not have to take legal action to go pro, that is trailblazing. It's a path that wasn't an option before her.


Not no but fuck no.  This whole situation is a sham and a farce.  My kid was doing her thing before OM and continues to do her thing at Club Tijuana.

My point is that OM ain’t made shit happen for my kid and she’s doing it on her own whether that be in Liga MX, NWSL, or Europe.  GTFOH.


----------



## Jose has returned (Jul 8, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Not no but fuck no.  This whole situation is a sham and a farce.  My kid was doing her thing before OM and continues to do her thing at Club Tijuana.
> 
> My point is that OM ain’t made shit happen for my kid and she’s doing it on her own whether that be in Liga MX, NWSL, or Europe.  GTFOH.


you mad bro?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 8, 2021)

Jose has returned said:


> you mad bro?


Nah.  Just not gonna let the “machine” set the dialogue.  The PR message from OM’s camp is always wrong.

This new trailblazer, creating a pathway hype that’s being promoted currently is just as disrespectful as their initial best player in the world message.


----------



## what-happened (Jul 8, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Nah.  Just not gonna let the “machine” set the dialogue.  The PR message from OM’s camp is always wrong.
> 
> This new trailblazer, creating a pathway hype that’s being promoted currently is just as disrespectful as their initial best player in the world message.


Dialogue is set, they were first to the well.  It won't be loved by all but they don't care, and they shouldn't.  Can't please everyone.

With that said, should be just white noise to your DD.  Obviously talented, properly mentored,  and cutting her own path.


----------



## Chalklines (Jul 8, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Not no but fuck no.  This whole situation is a sham and a farce.  My kid was doing her thing before OM and continues to do her thing at Club Tijuana.
> 
> My point is that OM ain’t made shit happen for my kid and she’s doing it on her own whether that be in Liga MX, NWSL, or Europe.  GTFOH.


Is the situation white privilege?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 8, 2021)

Chalklines said:


> Is the situation white privilege?


My kid is anxious to see the standard that she needs to meet to get a Nike endorsement and signed by the Thorns.


----------



## what-happened (Jul 8, 2021)

MacDre said:


> My kid is anxious to see the standard that she needs to meet to get a Nike endorsement and signed by the Thorns.


Adidas and Houston Dash would get my vote.


----------



## STX (Jul 8, 2021)

MacDre said:


> My kid is anxious to see the standard that she needs to meet to get a Nike endorsement and signed by the Thorns.


I'm sure you know this. But Step 1 is to amass 100,000+ Instagram followers.  

There are a couple of players at OM's level in pretty much every every age group from a soccer perspective. From a soccer + marketing perspective, she was a unicorn. Those followers and the attention is what Nike paid for, not just the soccer talent. 

Step 2 is to be incredibly good at soccer. 

Put them together and then a girl just might be capable of influencing tens of thousands of people to go buy something and justify a Nike deal.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 8, 2021)

MacDre said:


> My kid is anxious to see the standard that she needs to meet to get a Nike endorsement and signed by the Thorns.


There are thousands of young girls of all races, colors and shapes thinking the same thing!


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 8, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> There are thousands of young girls of all races, colors and shapes thinking the same thing!


With the new ncaa rulings, the smart money is for kids to finish high school, go to college, get Instagram likes, and go after those advertising dollars.   Worse case scenario you get a degree that pays more than double the salary of the women’s soccer league.


----------



## KingMI (Jul 8, 2021)

OM is cool for young kids to see. The kids need to look at her interviews and see(listen to) the mental commitment this young lady puts into her craft.
Its all about timing sometimes, I do not know of anyone who has tried this until her. The going to college route is most of the time a win-win for the player. Also note: it does not mean that some random 15yr old girl from club soccer who goes to college can not surpass her(OM) down the road.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 8, 2021)

KingMI said:


> OM is cool for young kids to see.


I agree but my kid hasn’t seen anything yet.  My kid has seen lots of marketing.  My kid keeps hearing folks say how good she is.  I remember OM saying “I will show you better than I can tell you” a couple of years ago.

It’s time for y’all to stop saying how good she is and let her actions speak for themselves.

Pressure either burst pipes or makes diamonds-which is it gonna be?


----------



## KingMI (Jul 8, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I agree but my kid hasn’t seen anything yet.  My kid has seen lots of marketing.  My kid keeps hearing folks say how good she is.  I remember OM saying “I will show you better than I can tell you” a couple of years ago.
> 
> It’s time for y’all to stop saying how good she is and let her actions speak for themselves.
> 
> Pressure either burst pipes or makes diamonds-which is it gonna be?


I understand MacDre I have a kid who is talented as well. But I am also not worried about any of this until I see women's soccer take off with more income generation. Sometimes “first will be last and the last will be first”  when its all said and done.


----------



## what-happened (Jul 8, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I agree but my kid hasn’t seen anything yet.  My kid has seen lots of marketing.  My kid keeps hearing folks say how good she is.  I remember OM saying “I will show you better than I can tell you” a couple of years ago.
> 
> It’s time for y’all to stop saying how good she is and let her actions speak for themselves.
> 
> Pressure either burst pipes or makes diamonds-which is it gonna be?


Plenty of video on her.  At 12 she was playing U17.  At 13 she was playing  U18.  I don't get the negative vibe.  She's an excellent player, beyond excellent really.  She wasn't a fringe player, she was an impact player on those teams, making girls 5 years her age look pedestrian.  Imagine being a senior in HS and getting your ankles broken by 7th/8th grader.  There are Thorns practice videos floating around.  From a distance you can't tell she's 15.  

Is her social media/marketing on point - absolutely.  Needs to be.  Forsaking college to go pro is a big risk, especially at that age.  Monetize that kid and make sure she's taken care of down the road.  An athlete's life span is extremely short.  Risky but appears to be calculated risk.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 8, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Nah.  Just not gonna let the “machine” set the dialogue.  The PR message from OM’s camp is always wrong.
> 
> This new trailblazer, creating a pathway hype that’s being promoted currently is just as disrespectful as their initial best player in the world message.


You are mad, at the very least a hater. She's a good player, but more than that she was marketed well by her parents. Get your kid as many followers as she does and she can follow her path, at the very least get some sort of sponsorship deal you crave lol. The fact is she's got more than twice as many followers than some uswnt players. In the end its all business and she's got enough game to not embarrass herself on the field.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 9, 2021)

KingMI said:


> I understand MacDre I have a kid who is talented as well. But I am also not worried about any of this until I see women's soccer take off with more income generation. Sometimes “first will be last and the last will be first”  when its all said and done.


Well said sir.  However for me, this isn’t about being first, second, or third.  Let me clarify my points:

1.  I am responding to all of the hype being promoted regarding OM being a trailblazer and opening a new path from many.  I think between Nike and the Thorns OM is making a “pretty penny” for a 15 y/o.  I was previously informed that OM’s talent was so exceptional and rare that there would always be money for players blessed with such talent.

I responded because my kid has not benefited from this new pathway allegedly created by OM despite me reaching out to folks and trying to make it happen; and

2.  My kid is interested in seeing her play because OM plays one of the same positions as my kid and she is trying to discern if she can compete with OM for that USWNT spot since they are close in age.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 9, 2021)

what-happened said:


> Plenty of video on her.  At 12 she was playing U17.  At 13 she was playing  U18.  I don't get the negative vibe.  She's an excellent player, beyond excellent really.  She wasn't a fringe player, she was an impact player on those teams, making girls 5 years her age look pedestrian.  Imagine being a senior in HS and getting your ankles broken by 7th/8th grader.  There are Thorns practice videos floating around.  From a distance you can't tell she's 15.
> 
> Is her social media/marketing on point - absolutely.  Needs to be.  Forsaking college to go pro is a big risk, especially at that age.  Monetize that kid and make sure she's taken care of down the road.  An athlete's life span is extremely short.  Risky but appears to be calculated risk.


You do realize OM’s dad KC is on record saying “it doesn’t’ matter if she’s the best at 13, if she’s not at 16.”  So, no negative vibe.  I’m simply following along.  My kids want to compete and wants to see OM “show her what it do.”

I have no problem with folks trying to get paid.  I do have a problem with marketing a kid as a perfect athlete.  My life has taught me that development is painful and involves setbacks and mistakes.  I kinda want to mollywop OM’s camp for unnecessarily making her so unlikable.  Hopefully, her camp will soon realize the benefit of showing her vulnerability and share her character building experiences with the public in addition to all the clips of perfection that have been released.

I think it’s irresponsible to promote unattainable perfection to teenage girls for profit.  Any teenage girl contemplating taking a grown woman’s jobs should know that it’s not all fun and it’s gonna hurt like this:


----------



## MacDre (Jul 9, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> You are mad, at the very least a hater. She's a good player, but more than that she was marketed well by her parents. Get your kid as many followers as she does and she can follow her path, at the very least get some sort of sponsorship deal you crave lol. The fact is she's got more than twice as many followers than some uswnt players. In the end its all business and she's got enough game to not embarrass herself on the field.


You are moving the goal post.  I thought we were talking about all the opportunities available to younger soccer players because of OM’s efforts?

Please clarify.  Are you saying now that all my kid has to be is an influencer with followers and she’ll be fine-thanks, I got it.

By the way, what are all those folks following? Sure isn’t soccer!


----------



## Dominic (Jul 9, 2021)

Olivia Moultrie - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Patandpats (Jul 9, 2021)

MacDre said:


> You are moving the goal post.  I thought we were talking about all the opportunities available to younger soccer players because of OM’s efforts?
> 
> Please clarify.  Are you saying now that all my kid has to be is an influencer with followers and she’ll be fine-thanks, I got it.
> 
> By the way, what are all those folks following? Sure isn’t soccer!


When Freddy Adu joined MLS, he was the first young player to do so and had ads as a result. He was 14 years old. Everyone knew who he was. Do you remember the hype when 14 year old Emmanuel Ochoa signed with San Jose? How about Gabriel Slonina with the Fire? Both were 14. Do you remember when Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty signed with Toronto last winter at 15? Have you heard of any of these players?  Probably not because they weren't the first.  OM was the first girl to play DA. Nobody on this site talks the two girls who now play MLS with TFA.  Being first matters to the story. It makes it more interesting and yes, more marketable.

I hope your daughter becomes an all time great, but your posts sound like sour grapes and certainly give off the tone of rooting against OM because your own child hasn't been able to do what she has done yet.  Will say it again, root for kids to succeed. If you are then you won't worry that she's being "marketed as a perfect athlete" or that your kid "has not benefited" despite you reaching out.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 9, 2021)

MacDre said:


> You are moving the goal post.  I thought we were talking about all the opportunities available to younger soccer players because of OM’s efforts?
> 
> Please clarify.  Are you saying now that all my kid has to be is an influencer with followers and she’ll be fine-thanks, I got it.
> 
> By the way, what are all those folks following? Sure isn’t soccer!


Why so negative?   The world has some fantastic soccer to watch, with more than one great player.   This is a good thing.  It would be kind of boring if it were all “Marta versus the little people.”

Good luck to your DD.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 9, 2021)

Patandpats said:


> When Freddy Adu joined MLS, he was the first young player to do so and had ads as a result. He was 14 years old. Everyone knew who he was. Do you remember the hype when 14 year old Emmanuel Ochoa signed with San Jose? How about Gabriel Slonina with the Fire? Both were 14. Do you remember when Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty signed with Toronto last winter at 15? Have you heard of any of these players?  Probably not because they weren't the first.  OM was the first girl to play DA. Nobody on this site talks the two girls who now play MLS with TFA.  Being first matters to the story. It makes it more interesting and yes, more marketable.
> 
> I hope your daughter becomes an all time great, but your posts sound like sour grapes and certainly give off the tone of rooting against OM because your own child hasn't been able to do what she has done yet.  Will say it again, root for kids to succeed. If you are then you won't worry that she's being "marketed as a perfect athlete" or that your kid "has not benefited" despite you reaching out.


I don’t care about my kid being great.  I simply want my kid to have equal opportunity.  

What makes you think my kid hasn’t accomplished what OM has?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 9, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Why so negative?   The world has some fantastic soccer to watch, with more than one great player.   This is a good thing.  It would be kind of boring if it were all “Marta versus the little people.”
> 
> Good luck to your DD.


Not negative; I would call it smart and analytical.  I am simply correcting the record.  No opportunities have been presented to my kid by NWSL so I am at a loss as to why this untruth about increased opportunity is being circulated.  It was reported that multiple teams were interested in signing OM, which means there are a few teams currently with the desire and budget to sign a teen but my phone is not ringing.  What a bogus, sham, farce situation.

I would love to see OM play.  I have nothing against her.


----------



## STX (Jul 9, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I was previously informed that OM’s talent was so exceptional and rare that there would always be money for players blessed with such talent.
> 
> I responded because my kid has not benefited from this new pathway allegedly created by OM despite me reaching out to folks and trying to make it happen.


You sound like Crush. 

Who promised you the first thing, and why did you believe them? Regarding the second, getting a negative answer is almost certainly because she isn't as good at either soccer or as an "influencer" as OM.   No shame in that. I'm unaware of anyone else who has both, which is what is required. 

If Nike or Adidas thought they could make money on your daughter, they would be positively responding to your overtures.  They apparently don't at this time. I don't see where or how anybody really owes you anything.  You seem to mistakenly think the OM story is all about soccer.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 9, 2021)

STX said:


> You sound like Crush.
> 
> Who promised you the first thing, and why did you believe them? Regarding the second, getting a negative answer is almost certainly because she isn't as good at either soccer or as an "influencer" as OM.   No shame in that. I'm unaware of anyone else who has both, which is what is required.
> 
> If Nike or Adidas thought they could make money on your daughter, they would be positively responding to your overtures.  They apparently don't at this time. I don't see where or how anybody really owes you anything.


What are you talking about?  You are making lots of faulty assumptions.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 9, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Not negative; I would call it smart and analytical.  I am simply correcting the record.  No opportunities have been presented to my kid by NWSL so I am at a loss as to why this untruth about increased opportunity is being circulated.  It was reported that multiple teams were interested in signing OM, which means there are a few teams currently with the desire and budget to sign a teen but my phone is not ringing.  What a bogus, sham, farce situation.
> 
> I would love to see OM play.  I have nothing against her.


IF there were multiple NWSL teams interested in OM, it doesn’t mean they are in the market to sign any female teenager.  They were interested in her and all of the visibility that she had amassed already. They weren’t looking to find the some young “phenom” that no one knows and create a marketing opportunity out of her.  Especially when “Project OM” has yet to bear any fruit. 

They say the rising tide raised all boats, but even the tide takes time to fill in.  It appears you interpret people saying that OM is trailblazing and opening opportunities for young women as something that will happen immediately and that simply isn’t the case.  

I have a feeling your DD will do amazing things but will define her own path, not follow one that someone else cut.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 9, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> IF there were multiple NWSL teams interested in OM, it doesn’t mean they are in the market to sign any female teenager.  They were interested in her and all of the visibility that she had amassed already. They weren’t looking to find the some young “phenom” that no one knows and create a marketing opportunity out of her.  Especially when “Project OM” has yet to bear any fruit.
> 
> They say the rising tide raised all boats, but even the tide takes time to fill in.  It appears you interpret people saying that OM is trailblazing and opening opportunities for young women as something that will happen immediately and that simply isn’t the case.
> 
> I have a feeling your DD will do amazing things but will define her own path, not follow one that someone else cut.


Spot on.  I thinks there’s a lot of speculation and conjecture being put out in the world.  Time will tell.


----------



## espola (Jul 9, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Why so negative?   The world has some fantastic soccer to watch, with more than one great player.   This is a good thing.  It would be kind of boring if it were all “Marta versus the little people.”
> 
> Good luck to your DD.


I think the OM story will be interesting, however it turns out.  What turns me off is her parents.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 9, 2021)

One more thing y’all, this ain’t about being an influencer-it’s about EQUAL OPPORTUNITY.

In the words of the learned and honorable Judge Karin J. Immergut
"This Court again finds that the merits clearly favor Plaintiff’s position, that she will be irreparably harmed if it does not grant the preliminary injunction, and that the balance of equities and the public interest strongly favor affording girls in the United States the same opportunities as boys."  (Emphasis Added).

None of the boys that sign MLS contracts or Generation Adidas contracts as teens are required to be influencers and Immergut has opined that girls should be given equal opportunities as boys in the MLS.

I therefore reject the notion that being an influencer should have any bearing on the situation. The analysis should be guided by whether girls in NWSL are given the same opportunities as boys in the MLS.


----------



## outside! (Jul 9, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Not negative; I would call it smart and analytical.  I am simply correcting the record.  No opportunities have been presented to my kid by NWSL so I am at a loss as to why this untruth about increased opportunity is being circulated.


She now has the opportunity to try to play in the NWSL as a minor without NWSL saying it is against their rules. That is the opportunity that the lawsuit opened for other female players, including yours.


----------



## Emma (Jul 9, 2021)

MacDre said:


> One more thing y’all, this ain’t about being an influencer-it’s about EQUAL OPPORTUNITY.
> 
> In the words of the learned and honorable Judge Karin J. Immergut
> "This Court again finds that the merits clearly favor Plaintiff’s position, that she will be irreparably harmed if it does not grant the preliminary injunction, and that the balance of equities and the public interest strongly favor affording girls in the United States the same opportunities as boys."  (Emphasis Added).
> ...


I think you have a case if your daughter tries out for an NWSL team and doesn't make it based solely on her age, which will be hard to prove because soccer is so subjective.  I do agree with you that I hope NWSL will start opening up positions for youngs players like MLS if she desires to play professionally at a young age.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 9, 2021)

outside! said:


> She now has the opportunity to try to play in the NWSL as a minor without NWSL saying it is against their rules. That is the opportunity that the lawsuit opened for other female players, including yours.


I think you have a very narrow interpretation of the opinion.  I interpret it more broadly because to limit or restrict the ruling makes no sense from a social policy perspective.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 9, 2021)

Emma said:


> I think you have a case if your daughter tries out for an NWSL team and doesn't make it based solely on her age, which will be hard to prove because soccer is so subjective.  I do agree with you that I hope NWSL will start opening up positions for youngs players like MLS if she desires to play professionally at a young age.


I think I have a case if my daughter isn’t being given the same opportunities as boys in the MLS.


----------



## Emma (Jul 9, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I think I have a case if my daughter isn’t being given the same opportunities as boys in the MLS.


This - I would like to see.  If there are girls who can play at the MLS level, I hope they try out and get the opportunity to earn as much as their male counterparts because NWSL is not equivalent considering how low their pay is.  MacDre, if your daughter can pave this path for girls, I'd call her a trailblazer and set up an instagram account just to follow her.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 9, 2021)

Emma said:


> This - I would like to see.  If there are girls who can play at the MLS level, I hope they try out and get the opportunity to earn as much as their male counterparts because NWSL is not equivalent considering how low their pay is.  MacDre, if your daughter can pave this path for girls, I'd call her a trailblazer and set up an instagram account just to follow her.


My kid ain’t a trailblazer.  I have no idea how things will turn out with soccer.  However, I do know that a federal judge in the 9th circuit has made it clear that in the United States girls should have the same opportunities as boys.


----------



## outside! (Jul 9, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I think you have a very narrow interpretation of the opinion.  I interpret it more broadly because to limit or restrict the ruling makes no sense from a social policy perspective.


Sorry, not a lawyer and I did not read the ruling. I thought the ruling made it so the NWSL rule that says players must be 18 or older could not be applied anymore.


----------



## Jose has returned (Jul 9, 2021)

STX said:


> You sound like Crush.
> 
> Who promised you the first thing, and why did you believe them? Regarding the second, getting a negative answer is almost certainly because she isn't as good at either soccer or as an "influencer" as OM.   No shame in that. I'm unaware of anyone else who has both, which is what is required.
> 
> If Nike or Adidas thought they could make money on your daughter, they would be positively responding to your overtures.  They apparently don't at this time. I don't see where or how anybody really owes you anything.  You seem to mistakenly think the OM story is all about soccer.


Nailed it!  who is his kid anyway.  I know who Olivia is but not his


----------



## Giesbock (Jul 9, 2021)

With all the attention on OM, her pro contract and Nike deal, just curious how she stacks up against the youth national team players.  Is she the star of that squad?


----------



## STX (Jul 9, 2021)

Giesbock said:


> With all the attention on OM, her pro contract and Nike deal, just curious how she stacks up against the youth national team players.  Is she the star of that squad?


She is quite good. Certainly an impact player at a youth international level and one of the very best US players in her age group (if not the best).  

There are other American youth players in other age groups that are probably as good or perhaps even better for their age, but you wouldn't need more than two hands to count them all.


----------



## pokergod (Jul 9, 2021)

STX said:


> She is quite good. Certainly an impact player at a youth international level and one of the very best US players in her age group (if not the best).
> 
> There are other American youth players in other age groups that are probably as good or perhaps even better for their age, but you wouldn't need more than two hands to count them all.


Good points and good thread.  But, please keep this civil and do not compare anyone to crush.  I'm fairly certain that comparing anyone to crush is grounds for Dominic to get involved and ban you from the website and, we can all agree, for good reason.


----------



## KingMI (Jul 10, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Well said sir.  However for me, this isn’t about being first, second, or third.  Let me clarify my points:
> 
> 1.  I am responding to all of the hype being promoted regarding OM being a trailblazer and opening a new path from many.  I think between Nike and the Thorns OM is making a “pretty penny” for a 15 y/o.  I was previously informed that OM’s talent was so exceptional and rare that there would always be money for players blessed with such talent.
> 
> ...


Sorry for late reply just got back home. I really did not follow OM much on the field, I saw a few games and she looked like a good mid. I have seen many kids as good to much better in the older age groups. Again my kid is younger so my prospective is hope it works for OM. I do see your points and agree with the hype being the main issue. If a kid my daughters age was getting tons of publicity and I knew she(my kid) deserved the same. I would want to get to the bottom of why as well. But again I also feel younger mid's have a better chance to contribute sooner in the pros than a striker or forward.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jul 10, 2021)

I don’t think her contract with Nike was about her soccer skills- it was more about her social media presence and the novelty of what her family was doing with her soccer path- it was about the hype and the expectation that she would attract a lot of interest from young female soccer players and their parents and thus buy a bunch of Nike gear.  I am not sure if she is likeable with her age and younger. I only know parents that are intrigued by what she is doing but no youth players that I know are hyped up about her.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jul 10, 2021)

Soccer43 said:


> I don’t think her contract with Nike was about her soccer skills- it was more about her social media presence and the novelty of what her family was doing with her soccer path- it was about the hype and the expectation that she would attract a lot of interest from young female soccer players and their parents and thus buy a bunch of Nike gear.  I am not sure if she is likeable with her age and younger. I only know parents that are intrigued by what she is doing but no youth players that I know are hyped up about her.


Your last two sentences are poignant.


----------



## Technician72 (Jul 10, 2021)

Soccer43 said:


> I only know parents that are intrigued by what she is doing but no youth players that I know are hyped up about her.





LASTMAN14 said:


> Your last two sentences are poignant.


The amount of Social Media accounts run by parents for their players under the guise that it’s the actual player running it, is astounding. The funniest is when the parents running the accounts give themselves props, posting as their son or daughter. That’s the only tangible thing I’ve seen come from OMs impact, the mirroring by parents for their kids to be next in line…


----------



## espola (Jul 11, 2021)

Technician72 said:


> The amount of Social Media accounts run by parents for their players under the guise that it’s the actual player running it, is astounding. The funniest is when the parents running the accounts give themselves props, posting as their son or daughter. That’s the only tangible thing I’ve seen come from OMs impact, the mirroring by parents for their kids to be next in line…


Do you have some examples to share?


----------



## Chalklines (Jul 11, 2021)

Technician72 said:


> The amount of Social Media accounts run by parents for their players under the guise that it’s the actual player running it, is astounding. The funniest is when the parents running the accounts give themselves props, posting as their son or daughter. That’s the only tangible thing I’ve seen come from OMs impact, the mirroring by parents for their kids to be next in line…


most of these kids getting likes and followers on social media are complete ghosts in games. OM at least lived up to the hype when she was playing club.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jul 11, 2021)

Uhh, not sure about that


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

If OM’s Nike endorsement is due to her being an influencer, then how was she selected for the YNT for older birth years?  How has OM received substantial playing time as the youngest player on her YNT roster if she’s only an influencer?


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 12, 2021)

MacDre said:


> If OM’s Nike endorsement is due to her being an influencer, then how was she selected for the YNT for older birth years?  How has OM received substantial playing time as the youngest player on her YNT roster if she’s only an influencer?


Shes a great player, but being an influencer helped get the nike contract and set the stage to be given an opportunity to turn pro earlier than maybe she should be. Allowing her to be a trailblazer. You may think your daughter is just as good. but nobody really knows her, so nobody cares. so no mls contract, no nike contract makes sense.  Takes more than just talent sometimes.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> Shes a great player, but being an influencer helped get the nike contract and set the stage to be given an opportunity to turn pro earlier than maybe she should be. Allowing her to be a trailblazer. You may think your daughter is just as good. but nobody really knows her, so nobody cares. so no mls contract, no nike contract makes sense.  Takes more than just talent sometimes.


This doesn’t make sense.  Freddy Adu, Jozy Altidore, Demarcus Beasley, Clint Dempsey, Gianluco Busio and many others aren’t influencers yet they signed professional contracts and endorsement deals at a young age.  

Are you suggesting that females can only attain comparable success to males in soccer if they are influencers?

My kid is actually more marketable than OM because she can be promoted in the USA, Mexico, Bahamas and West Indies.  I also have the resources and contacts to immediately turn my kid into an influencer but I rather not.

I don’t think anything about my kids soccer ability.  I love to see her play and to go get ice cream after her games.  Period.  Professional and college coaches have told me that my daughter is good.  I stay in my lane.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 12, 2021)

MacDre said:


> This doesn’t make sense.  Freddy Adu, Jozy Altidore, Demarcus Beasley, Clint Dempsey, Gianluco Busio and many others aren’t influencers yet they signed professional contracts and endorsement deals at a young age.
> 
> Are you suggesting that females can only attain comparable success to males in soccer if they are influencers?
> 
> ...


I may be wrong, but male players signed to professional contracts in the MLS locally can get sold for much more money after a year or 2 to bigger soccer markets.  female players are still struggling to fill seats, much more so than their male counterparts.  And the market to "sell" players is not the same.  The female game is still at the stage of trying to get more fans and viewers.  By getting as many "influencers" with their followers that can play the game will hopefully bring more fans to the game.  I promise you, if you say your daughter is as good as you and your coaches say she is, she can follow OMs path if she can match the followers.  that's the missing piece for your daughter.  Feel free to disagree.  Just my opinion. If Grayson "The Professor" Boucher can get a contract to play in the ABA, a step bellow the NBA at the time, social media and followers can give you a shot you may not deserve. If i remember correctly, he barely walked onto a JC team. Dont underestimate the power of being an influencer with an established fan base lol.


----------



## STX (Jul 12, 2021)

MacDre said:


> If OM’s Nike endorsement is due to her being an influencer, then how was she selected for the YNT for older birth years?  How has OM received substantial playing time as the youngest player on her YNT roster if she’s only an influencer?


I'm pretty sure you know the answers to all of your questions, but I'll humor you... 

She made the YNT teams because she is really good at soccer

She got the Nike deal because she is BOTH really good at soccer and had a massive social media presence that justified a business investment. 

Any girl can do the same as OM if they are elite enough at both things. That door is wide open for your daughter. It's just really hard to walk through (and many, such as yourself, are reasonably not interested in it anyway).


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> I may be wrong, but male players signed to professional contracts in the MLS locally can get sold for much more money after a year or 2 to bigger soccer markets.  female players are still struggling to fill seats, much more so than their male counterparts.  And the market to "sell" players is not the same.  The female game is still at the stage of trying to get more fans and viewers.  By getting as many "influencers" with their followers that can play the game will hopefully bring more fans to the game.  I promise you, if you say your daughter is as good as you and your coaches say she is, she can follow OMs path if she can match the followers.  that's the missing piece for your daughter.  Feel free to disagree.  Just my opinion. If Grayson "The Professor" Boucher can get a contract to play in the ABA, a step bellow the NBA at the time, social media and followers can give you a shot you may not deserve. If i remember correctly, he barely walked onto a JC team. Dont underestimate the power of being an influencer with an established fan base lol.


Yes, you are wrong.








						Generation Adidas - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 12, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Yes, you are wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wrong about what?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

STX said:


> I'm pretty sure you know the answers to all of your questions, but I'll humor you...
> 
> She made the YNT teams because she is really good at soccer
> 
> ...


Sounds sexist and illegal to me.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> wrong about what?


Your assertion.

*Generation Adidas* is a joint venture between Major League Soccer and U.S. Socce*r** aimed at raising the level of young professional soccertalent in the United States*.[2

Doesn’t say aimed at selling players later.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 12, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Your assertion.
> 
> *Generation Adidas* is a joint venture between Major League Soccer and U.S. Socce*r** aimed at raising the level of young professional soccertalent in the United States*.[2
> 
> Doesn’t say aimed at selling players later.


the aim is "allowing MLS to compete with foreign professional clubs without comparable restrictions on player signing."  If they can sign a young prospect early, they have the potential to make more money selling them in the future. Selling players obviously shouldnt be the goal. but we are a smaller market, and its inevitable that a strong player will want to play for a bigger league/club. Disagree all you want, but your example of players have all played overseas when they could.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> the aim is "allowing MLS to compete with foreign professional clubs without comparable restrictions on player signing."  If they can sign a young prospect early, they have the potential to make more money selling them in the future. Selling players obviously shouldnt be the goal. but we are a smaller market, and its inevitable that a strong player will want to play for a bigger league/club. Disagree all you want, but your example of players have all played overseas when they could.


Completely irrelevant.  We are talking about youth development that is available for boys but not girls.  We are not talking about a professional career trajectory because it is outside the scope of youth development.

Why do you think girls should not have the same youth development opportunities as boys?


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 12, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Completely irrelevant.  We are talking about youth development that is available for boys but not girls.  We are not talking about a professional career trajectory because it is outside the scope of youth development.
> 
> Why do you think girls should not have the same youth development opportunities as boys?


Not Irrelevant, just pointing out how that investment can pay off.  

I think girls should have the same youth development opportunities as boys.  Just need to convince the sponsors that they will get a decent return on their investment.  Unless you want to force companies to pay for your daughters development and opportunities, you have to make it worth it for them. At the very least by getting visibility off an influencers name and following.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> Not Irrelevant, just pointing out how that investment can pay off.
> 
> I think girls should have the same youth development opportunities as boys.  Just need to convince the sponsors that they will get a decent return on their investment.  Unless you want to force companies to pay for your daughters development and opportunities, you have to make it worth it for them. At the very least by getting visibility off an influencers name and following.


I’ve known for a long time but Judge Immergut recently pointed out in simple language that “in the United States girls should have the same opportunities as boys.”so what that essentially means is that we probably have a blatant gender discrimination issue here.

I think the girls equal pay claim is better than the WNT because they aren’t represented by a union and haven’t negotiated a CBA.

Unfortunately the girls have only been represented by their dumb ass parents (including me) who have yet to take action to secure their rights. We simply get drunk on the kool-aide.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> the aim is "allowing MLS to compete with foreign professional clubs without comparable restrictions on player signing."  If they can sign a young prospect early, they have the potential to make more money selling them in the future. Selling players obviously shouldnt be the goal. but we are a smaller market, and its inevitable that a strong player will want to play for a bigger league/club. Disagree all you want, but your example of players have all played overseas when they could.


If you note US Soccers involvement along with the initial restrictions to only MNT players it becomes clear that this is a youth development program aimed at developing National Team Players in the underdeveloped US market.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 12, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I’ve known for a long time but Judge Immergut recently pointed out in simple language that “in the United States girls should have the same opportunities as boys.”so what that essentially means is that we probably have a blatant gender discrimination issue here.
> 
> I think the girls equal pay claim is better than the WNT because they aren’t represented by a union and haven’t negotiated a CBA.
> 
> Unfortunately the girls have only been represented by their dumb ass parents (including me) who have yet to take action to secure their rights. We simply get drunk on the kool-aide.


first off, I wouldn't use probably and blatant in the same sentence.

second, I hope you do take action.  Be a trailblazer instead of hating others that blaze the trail first. No Excuses. Be the change you want.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 12, 2021)

MacDre said:


> If you note US Soccers involvement along with the initial restrictions to only MNT players it becomes clear that this is a youth development program aimed at developing National Team Players in the underdeveloped US market.


Not the case anymore, read your link. Also, "Entering into the program automatically classifies a player as professional "


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> first off, I wouldn't use probably and blatant in the same sentence.
> 
> second, I hope you do take action.  Be a trailblazer instead of hating others that blaze the trail first. No Excuses. Be the change you want.


First off, it was intentional because I am not giving definitive legal advice, I’m merely speculating and pontificating.

Second, I’m not interested in blazing imaginary trails. What trailblazer have I hated on?

Why don’t you want equal opportunity for girls?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> Not the case anymore, read your link. Also, "Entering into the program automatically classifies a player as professional "


This is just to cast a wider net to have more potential National Team prospects and US Soccer is still involved for that precise reason.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 12, 2021)

MacDre said:


> First off, it was intentional because I am not giving definitive legal advice, I’m merely speculating and pontificating.
> 
> Second, I’m not interested in blazing imaginary tales.  What trailblazer have I hated on?
> 
> Why don’t you want equal opportunity for girls?


this is fun,

We all know which trailblazer you are hating on. I do want equal opportunity for girls.  Just not sure if forcing leagues and companies to invest in your daughter because you and your coaches think shes talented is the right thing to do.  Get her IG game up and you'll be in.  End of story.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 12, 2021)

MacDre said:


> This is just to cast a wider net to have more potential National Team prospects and US Soccer is still involved for that precise reason.


"Originally intended to improve the U.S. national team player pool, American national team eligibility is no longer required for program entry." You really should read your links before you post them.  This is now a program to allow MLS to get prospects early before other clubs can pick them up.  A good investment when the first contract is peanuts for they could get if the prospect lives up to expectations.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> this is fun,
> 
> We all know which trailblazer you are hating on. I do want equal opportunity for girls.  Just not sure if forcing leagues and companies to invest in your daughter because you and your coaches think shes talented is the right thing to do.  Get her IG game up and you'll be in.  End of story.


Nothing is fun about gender discrimination.
I don’t know of the trailblazer that you are talking about...please elaborate!

Why do you make so many faulty assumptions?  You know absolutely nothing about my camp.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> "Originally intended to improve the U.S. national team player pool, American national team eligibility is no longer required for program entry." You really should read your links before you post them.  This is now a program to allow MLS to get prospects early before other clubs can pick them up.  A good investment when the first contract is peanuts for they could get if the prospect lives up to expectations.


You are either intentionally misconstruing simple non ambiguous language or you have a comprehension problem-which is it?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> "Originally intended to improve the U.S. national team player pool, American national team eligibility is no longer required for program entry." You really should read your links before you post them.  This is now a program to allow MLS to get prospects early before other clubs can pick them up.  A good investment when the first contract is peanuts for they could get if the prospect lives up to expectations.


Excuse me, but I’m on some deep east oakland shit right now.  A special dedication to you.  My promotion.  Stand for something...


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> "Originally intended to improve the U.S. national team player pool, American national team eligibility is no longer required for program entry." You really should read your links before you post them.  This is now a program to allow MLS to get prospects early before other clubs can pick them up.  A good investment when the first contract is peanuts for they could get if the prospect lives up to expectations.


Alright, I’m moving north to Richmond and Vallejo for promotion.  Why are you squaring up fam?  Talk to me, I miss you homie.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 12, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Alright, I’m moving north to Richmond and Vallejo for promotion.  Why are you squaring up fam?  Talk to me, I miss you homie.


You should promote your daughter. she might get that nike contract you want.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> You should promote your daughter. she might get that nike contract you want.


Nah, my kid is a shy, introverted, science nerd. We want the money, fuck the fame-kinda like the boys.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 12, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I responded because my kid has not benefited from this new pathway allegedly created by OM despite me reaching out to folks and trying to make it happen


Sounds like you really wanted that contract and you know who's trailblazing the "new pathway". Quit lying, you sound foolish.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

MSK357 said:


> Sounds like you really wanted that contract and you know who's trailblazing the "new pathway". Quit lying, you sound foolish.


No, that was me testing the waters.  If I had to identify someone in the US Soccer ecosystem that’s a trailblazer it would be the big homie from Hastings Rich Nichols.  If I was mad about something, it would probably be about how the big homie was ousted.

Dude, you are acting hella square.  More Promotion for ya square pants.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 12, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Completely irrelevant.  We are talking about youth development that is available for boys but not girls.  We are not talking about a professional career trajectory because it is outside the scope of youth development.
> 
> Why do you think girls should not have the same youth development opportunities as boys?


Girls do not have the same pre-professional soccer opportunities because the professional women’s soccer market can’t support it.

Don’t like it?   Go support your local wpsl team.  Plenty of good seats available, and they’re playing now.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Girls do not have the same pre-professional soccer opportunities because the professional women’s soccer market can’t support it.
> 
> Don’t like it?   Go support your local wpsl team.  Plenty of good seats available, and they’re playing now.


This is not about market economics.  The objective of the program is preparation for the National team.


----------



## outside! (Jul 13, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Girls do not have the same pre-professional soccer opportunities because the professional women’s soccer market can’t support it.
> 
> Don’t like it?   Go support your local wpsl team.  Plenty of good seats available, and they’re playing now.


The issue is not quite so simple. It is difficult to overcome a century of discrimination.

On the other hand, trying to find out any information on the local WPSL team is almost impossible. I was never able to find a schedule. My daughter practiced with two different semi-pro teams (one WPSL, one some new league thing) this summer and never saw a published schedule.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 13, 2021)

outside! said:


> The issue is not quite so simple. It is difficult to overcome a century of discrimination.
> 
> On the other hand, trying to find out any information on the local WPSL team is almost impossible. I was never able to find a schedule. My daughter practiced with two different semi-pro teams (one WPSL, one some new league thing) this summer and never saw a published schedule.


WPSL schedule for FC Golden State:









						Teams | Women's Premier Soccer League
					

|




					www.wpslsoccer.com
				




Looks like they play at Great Park.  The rest of the schedules are there, too.


----------



## outside! (Jul 13, 2021)

dad4 said:


> WPSL schedule for FC Golden State:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, but that is fairly new. When I searched earlier this summer, I could not find any schedules for San Diego teams. Now that Captain's practices have started, most of the college players are done.


----------



## oh canada (Jul 14, 2021)

If ya'll were hoping for your daughter to make a comfortable career in professional athletics then you signed her up for the wrong sport at 5 years old.  You shoulda invested the time and money in tennis, where the tournament prize money potential is much greater OR a sport that has much more potential to make $ from digital content like skateboarding or snowboarding.  Soccer juggling videos on youtube are not gonna buy the first car.

Just look at what female sports you see on TV -- Tennis, golf, xgames, basketball, softball, beach volleyball, track/field, gymnastics, swimming...all of these get more and better airtime than womens soccer.  Unfortunate, but true.


----------



## Emma (Jul 14, 2021)

oh canada said:


> If ya'll were hoping for your daughter to make a comfortable career in professional athletics then you signed her up for the wrong sport at 5 years old.  You shoulda invested the time and money in tennis, where the tournament prize money potential is much greater OR a sport that has much more potential to make $ from digital content like skateboarding or snowboarding.  Soccer juggling videos on youtube are not gonna buy the first car.
> 
> Just look at what female sports you see on TV -- Tennis, golf, xgames, basketball, softball, beach volleyball, track/field, gymnastics, swimming...all of these get more and better airtime than womens soccer.  Unfortunate, but true.


If we start red carding more fouls and making it easier to score than flop, viewership would be up.  How many people want to watch tactical fouls?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 14, 2021)

oh canada said:


> If ya'll were hoping for your daughter to make a comfortable career in professional athletics then you signed her up for the wrong sport at 5
> 
> Just look at what female sports you see on TV -- Tennis, golf, xgames, basketball, softball, beach volleyball, track/field, gymnastics, swimming...all of these get more and better airtime than womens soccer.  Unfortunate, but true.


Forget sports, get them into technology sales.    Get your daughter to learn how to feel comfortable doing presentations, have a great personality, and good enough to play golf to take customers out.

There’s plenty of mid to high 6 figure salaries selling IT technology to fortune 1000 customers. Sports is just the foundation to work hard, be relentless, and be a team player.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jul 14, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Forget sports, get them into technology sales.    Get your daughter to learn how to feel comfortable doing presentations, have a great personality, and good enough to play golf to take customers out.
> 
> There’s plenty of mid to high 6 figure salaries selling IT technology to fortune 1000 customers. Sports is just the foundation to work hard, be relentless, and be a team player.


Work on their Mandarin too.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 14, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Forget sports, get them into technology sales.    Get your daughter to learn how to feel comfortable doing presentations, have a great personality, and good enough to play golf to take customers out.
> 
> There’s plenty of mid to high 6 figure salaries selling IT technology to fortune 1000 customers. Sports is just the foundation to work hard, be relentless, and be a team player.


Our goal has been a solid sports program with a stronger educational foundation and strong alumni network!


----------



## MacDre (Jul 14, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Work on their Mandarin too.


I tried this but it ain’t really practical because it  ‘s too hard to get conversational practice for the language to stick.  But as a North Americans, all kids should be fluent in English and Spanish.


----------



## outside! (Jul 14, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I tried this but it ain’t really practical because it  ‘s too hard to get conversational practice for the language to stick.  But as a North Americans, all kids should be fluent in English and Spanish.


Yet HS Spanish classes spend most of the time writing verb tenses and almost no conversation because it is easier to test.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jul 14, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I tried this but it ain’t really practical because it  ‘s too hard to get conversational practice for the language to stick.  But as a North Americans, all kids should be fluent in English and Spanish.


All languages are best learned at the earliest stages. We are in California plenty of chances to practice.


----------



## Emma (Jul 14, 2021)

outside! said:


> Yet HS Spanish classes spend most of the time writing verb tenses and almost no conversation because it is easier to test.


I'd sign my kid up for a club soccer team that works on conversational Spanish.


----------



## outside! (Jul 14, 2021)

Emma said:


> I'd sign my kid up for a club soccer team that works on conversational Spanish.


Too late, but would not have worked for DD as there are no top level teams that speak mostly Spanish.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 14, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Work on their Mandarin too.


Have you tried learning to write Mandarin?

This is not an easy language.  If you want to be moderately literate, you are trying to memorize around 6,000 unique characters.  Many of them are homonyms, so each time you write down a word, you need to figure out from context which one you are writing.

example:

ma ma qi ma.
ma man.
ma ma ma ma.

There are five different characters in the above tongue twister, pronounced six different ways.  Four of the pronunciations are different versions of “ma”.

Not a simple thing to inflict on a kid.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jul 14, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Have you tried learning to write Mandarin?
> 
> This is not an easy language.  If you want to be moderately literate, you are trying to memorize around 6,000 unique characters.  Many of them are homonyms, so each time you write down a word, you need to figure out from context which one you are writing.
> 
> ...


See post 857.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 14, 2021)

Emma said:


> I'd sign my kid up for a club soccer team that works on conversational Spanish.


I’ve actually designed a Spanish Immersion Soccer program.  Hopefully, it can be implemented soon.


----------



## Emma (Jul 14, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I’ve actually designed a Spanish Immersion Soccer program.  Hopefully, it can be implemented soon.


Where and how much are you going to try to rip me off? Seriously, this would be a great idea.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 14, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Have you tried learning to write Mandarin?
> 
> This is not an easy language.  If you want to be moderately literate, you are trying to memorize around 6,000 unique characters.  Many of them are homonyms, so each time you write down a word, you need to figure out from context which one you are writing.
> 
> ...


At Esquela Bilingüe Internacional, we introduced the kids to Spanish pre-k to kindergarten with the goal of the kids having native fluency by eight grade.  
Mandarin is introduced in third grade with the goal of being conversational by grade eight.  My kid went to Chinese school since we were in TJ instead.  None of the kids are conversational in Mandarin lol.

There is also a Mandarin charter school in Oakland named Yu Ming and they are not having good results either.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 14, 2021)

Emma said:


> Where and how much are you going to try to rip me off? Seriously, this would be a great idea.


Actually, it will be low to no cost.  I hope the program is implemented everywhere because the concept is simple and will save families money with a better outcome.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Jul 14, 2021)

MacDre said:


> At Esquela Bilingüe Internacional, we introduced the kids to Spanish pre-k to kindergarten with the goal of the kids having native fluency by eight grade.
> Mandarin is introduced in third grade with the goal of being conversational by grade eight.  My kid went to Chinese school since we were in TJ instead.  None of the kids are conversational in Mandarin lol.
> 
> There is also a Mandarin charter school in Oakland named Yu Ming and they are not having good results either.


Tried and true method:
If you want your kid to speak Spanish or Mandarin from an early age, hire a Hispanic or Chinese nanny/babysitter.


----------



## espola (Jul 14, 2021)

Emma said:


> I'd sign my kid up for a club soccer team that works on conversational Spanish.


I learned many Spanish words working with my kids' soccer teams -- arbitro, portero, and a few others that I don't know how to spell.


----------



## Highlander (Jul 14, 2021)

Been catching up on this thread. For some reason it's super interesting to me...sad but true. Here is how I see it. Fact #1 - OM is a super good player, no one can take that from her. Fact #2 - OM's parents played the social media marketing game perfectly. Fact #3 - Nike saw this, they are also all about marketing...perfect partnership. 

Does anyone think they brought her up there without a long term plan in place? I can almost guarantee you this "trailblazer" story or her breaking into NWSL was planned out years ago. To think otherwise with Nike being involved would be naive IMHO. I'll take this one step further, I bet the NWSL is in on it as well. As the old story goes, all publicity is good publicity.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 14, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Actually, it will be low to no cost.  I hope the program is implemented everywhere because the concept is simple and will save families money with a better outcome.


Our local elementary school was one of the first in the state to have a dual immersion program where the students learn everything in Spanish K - 5.


----------



## KingMI (Jul 14, 2021)

Highlander said:


> Been catching up on this thread. For some reason it's super interesting to me...sad but true. Here is how I see it. Fact #1 - OM is a super good player, no one can take that from her. Fact #2 - OM's parents played the social media marketing game perfectly. Fact #3 - Nike saw this, they are also all about marketing...perfect partnership.
> 
> Does anyone think they brought her up there without a long term plan in place? I can almost guarantee you this "trailblazer" story or her breaking into NWSL was planned out years ago. To think otherwise with Nike being involved would be naive IMHO. I'll take this one step further, I bet the NWSL is in on it as well. As the old story goes, all publicity is good publicity.


OM should cut in Beach FC who allowed all of this to happen. Her going to the Thorns Academy was a formality.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 14, 2021)

KingMI said:


> OM should cut in Beach FC who allowed all of this to happen. Her going to the Thorns Academy was a formality.


Interesting, how so?


----------



## espola (Jul 14, 2021)

Highlander said:


> Been catching up on this thread. For some reason it's super interesting to me...sad but true. Here is how I see it. Fact #1 - OM is a super good player, no one can take that from her. Fact #2 - OM's parents played the social media marketing game perfectly. Fact #3 - Nike saw this, they are also all about marketing...perfect partnership.
> 
> Does anyone think they brought her up there without a long term plan in place? I can almost guarantee you this "trailblazer" story or her breaking into NWSL was planned out years ago. To think otherwise with Nike being involved would be naive IMHO. I'll take this one step further, I bet the NWSL is in on it as well. As the old story goes, all publicity is good publicity.


Maybe the Nike OM marketing plan is long range.  This came from the online Nike store --

*We could not find anything for "olivia moultrie".*


----------



## MacDre (Jul 14, 2021)

Highlander said:


> Been catching up on this thread. For some reason it's super interesting to me...sad but true. Here is how I see it. Fact #1 - OM is a super good player, no one can take that from her. Fact #2 - OM's parents played the social media marketing game perfectly. Fact #3 - Nike saw this, they are also all about marketing...perfect partnership.
> 
> Does anyone think they brought her up there without a long term plan in place? I can almost guarantee you this "trailblazer" story or her breaking into NWSL was planned out years ago. To think otherwise with Nike being involved would be naive IMHO. I'll take this one step further, I bet the NWSL is in on it as well. As the old story goes, all publicity is good publicity.


As to Fact #’s 2 & 3, I don’t really think it’s about marketing.  Maybe, so far my promotion is too local.  Small NorCal market.  But, we do our thang in LA too family.


----------



## KingMI (Jul 14, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Interesting, how so?


They gave her the platform for all this to take place. Blues was not interested in doing so.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 14, 2021)

KingMI said:


> They gave her the platform for all this to take place. Blues was not interested in doing so.


Fair enough


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 14, 2021)

espola said:


> Maybe the Nike OM marketing plan is long range.  This came from the online Nike store --
> 
> *We could not find anything for "olivia moultrie".*


They better pick up their marketing because most soccer fans have no clue who she is.   Instagram followers can be bought so  if she has 100k followers it means that close 30k could be fake followers.  
Bottom line this little girl can make her own marketing if she can score a few goals this season or next.   Personally, I think trinity Rodman has more of a brand presence given her skills and her father’s name recognition.


----------



## Highlander (Jul 14, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> They better pick up their marketing because most soccer fans have no clue who she is.   Instagram followers can be bought so  if she has 100k followers it means that close 30k could be fake followers.
> Bottom line this little girl can make her own marketing if she can score a few goals this season or next.   Personally, I think trinity Rodman has more of a brand presence given her skills and her father’s name recognition.


You are probably right. Thought I was on to something though. LOL


----------



## espola (Jul 15, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> They better pick up their marketing because most soccer fans have no clue who she is.   Instagram followers can be bought so  if she has 100k followers it means that close 30k could be fake followers.
> Bottom line this little girl can make her own marketing if she can score a few goals this season or next.   Personally, I think trinity Rodman has more of a brand presence given her skills and her father’s name recognition.


There is OM merch available, but it is from places that produce t-shirts and the like to order.  If it's not OM's parents behind that, they should be hearing from OM's lawyers soon.


----------



## crush (Aug 8, 2021)

15-year-old Olivia Moultrie nets game-winning assist in first pro start as Portland Thorns beat Washington Spirit
					

One month after making her pro debut, the teenage Moultrie got a game-winning assist in her first career start.




					www.oregonlive.com


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 8, 2021)

crush said:


> 15-year-old Olivia Moultrie nets game-winning assist in first pro start as Portland Thorns beat Washington Spirit
> 
> 
> One month after making her pro debut, the teenage Moultrie got a game-winning assist in her first career start.
> ...


Awesome, lead by example. Hopefully the purple haired dinosaurs will read the writing on the wall and retire.


----------



## espola (Aug 8, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Awesome, lead by example. Hopefully the purple haired dinosaurs will read the writing on the wall and retire.


"Child labor laws in Virginia, where the game was played, meant that Moultrie would need to come off the field by 9 p.m., which passed about 15 minutes into the second half, but Moultrie came off at halftime, a decision Parsons said was separate from the legal requirements."





__





						Teens and Employment – Virginia Rules
					






					virginiarules.org


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Aug 8, 2021)

What a great assist! It’s fun to see her contributing already!


----------



## espola (Aug 8, 2021)

Soccerfan2 said:


> What a great assist! It’s fun to see her contributing already!


Is there video somewhere?


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Aug 8, 2021)

espola said:


> Is there video somewhere?


----------



## Kickers99 (Aug 18, 2021)

Moultrie playing on ESPN right now.  Nice first career goal on free kick. Playing well sorry to jealous haters on here lol


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 18, 2021)

Kickers99 said:


> Moultrie playing on ESPN right now.  Nice first career goal on free kick. Playing well sorry to jealous haters on here lol


LOL. This is a linear thought that has nothing to do with the questions raised.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 19, 2021)

A teenage soccer prodigy became the youngest goalscorer in the history of her league
					

Olivia Moultrie - a 15-year-old on the NWSL's Portland Thorns - nailed a free kick to force penalty kicks in the Women's International Champions Cup.




					www.yahoo.com
				




The girl has game + is proving it.

15 years old and a top level womens player. Amazing...


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 19, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> A teenage soccer prodigy became the youngest goalscorer in the history of her league
> 
> 
> Olivia Moultrie - a 15-year-old on the NWSL's Portland Thorns - nailed a free kick to force penalty kicks in the Women's International Champions Cup.
> ...


And it's a quality goal...



			https://twitter.com/iccwomen?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1428214647052660741%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.insider.com%2Fvideo-soccer-youngest-goalscorer-nwsl-2021-8


----------



## espola (Aug 19, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> A teenage soccer prodigy became the youngest goalscorer in the history of her league
> 
> 
> Olivia Moultrie - a 15-year-old on the NWSL's Portland Thorns - nailed a free kick to force penalty kicks in the Women's International Champions Cup.
> ...


The headline is slightly wrong.  It's not a  league game.


----------



## espola (Aug 20, 2021)




----------



## crush (Aug 20, 2021)

espola said:


>


I have watched OM take free kicks since she was probably 9.  She is VERY good at the free kick.  Not sure what the GK was thinking but good shot for her.  Great cross too with a good first touch.  I can also say if you gave some of the top 15-17 year olds 6 months of 24/7 soccer training with pros, they too could do as well or even better playing with all those great pro players, moo.  For example, if I played with Magic, Worthy, Rambis and Kareem, I would look much better then being the stud on my high school hoops team and trying to beat the Long Beach Poly Jack Rabbits.  She had a dream and a goal and from what I can see she is balling at 15 with the pros and no one can take that away from her.  She opened the door for all females who want to go pro before 18


----------



## Goforgoal (Aug 20, 2021)

What struck me was her temperament and composure in the post match interview. That kid has what it takes for sure.


----------



## crush (Aug 20, 2021)

Goforgoal said:


> What struck me was her temperament and composure in the post match interview. That kid has what it takes for sure.


I didnt see the interview but I saw her work very hard at practice for two years.  My dd scrimmaged against OM every week for two years and scrimmaged against Trinity Rodman, Simone Jackson and Reilyn Turner once a month to keep her team humble.  We were #1 in the country, FYI.  What I see today is OM is passing more and playing with studs and is way more confident.  What makes me most happy is she looks happy out there and that is cool to see.  04/05 old age was way too easy for her and we all agree.  She made the boys look silly and played up at Beach FC and that was too easy so she went up North to Portlnad to train with people more like her and is now pro.  I do think some dads here are jealous.  It's cool for me to watch these young greats become great from hard work and dedication.  My dd gave up 18 months to win #10 National Championship at Surf when she was 13 and 14.  In three years my dd played on two teams that were #1 in the country.  It's cool to show my dd these players today.  I also showed her that 11+ players in that Surf vs SJQ marquee game back in 2017, have made YNT Camp so far.


----------



## oh canada (Aug 20, 2021)

Kickers99 said:


> Moultrie playing on ESPN right now.  Nice first career goal on free kick. Playing well sorry to jealous haters on here lol


here's an objective review...

her free kicks and corner kicks are great.  Though the goal was a misread by the goalie - vision blocked by the wall and she was leaning the wrong way while the ball coming over the wall toward the middle of the goal.  Even the spanish-speaking announcers said vision was obstructed.

Her defense is non-existent.  Doesn't try to tackle and her slower running pace was noticeable several times when Dash players dribbled right past her with ease.

She had 3 opportunities to finish balls into the box--one header and two balls on the ground.  Missed all three.

First half she was a ghost -- hardly got any touches and the 4 or 5 that she got she just played the ball back.  Second half had a few more touches and got more open space to dribble but didn't impact the game at all during the run of play.

First half i'd give her 3/10; second half 5/10.  There's definitely potential there but way too early to start crowning her the future of US women's soccer as Nike and her PR hype machine (parents included) want you to believe.

PS - Shea Groom (Tex A/M alum) had the golaso of the game - that's the goal that everyone should be seeing.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Aug 20, 2021)

oh canada said:


> here's an objective review...
> 
> her free kicks and corner kicks are great.  Though the goal was a misread by the goalie - vision blocked by the wall and she was leaning the wrong way while the ball coming over the wall toward the middle of the goal.  Even the spanish-speaking announcers said vision was obstructed.
> 
> ...


SHE'S 15!


----------



## crush (Aug 20, 2021)

oh canada said:


> here's an objective review...
> 
> her free kicks and corner kicks are great.  Though the goal was a misread by the goalie - vision blocked by the wall and she was leaning the wrong way while the ball coming over the wall toward the middle of the goal.  Even the spanish-speaking announcers said vision was obstructed.
> 
> ...


I will admit I only saw the highlights.  You seem like one who calls it like they see it so I will take what you said with a grain of salt.  Anyone else?


----------



## what-happened (Aug 20, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> SHE'S 15!


Ha...you beat me to it.  She's 15.


----------



## Goforgoal (Aug 20, 2021)

crush said:


> I will admit I only saw the highlights.  You seem like one who calls it like they see it so I will take what you said with a grain of salt.  Anyone else?


I only watched the first half but I would mostly concur with what Canada said about being a ghost. I even started to think the camera crew was instructed to intentionally keep her off camera as much as possible (silly I know but the thought did creep into my head). I did see the first miss on a cross from Smith that should be been a fairly easy finish near post and she whiffed. Meh it happens to the best too. That said, yeah she's 15 and I still think it's pretty cool that she's getting some play time.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Aug 20, 2021)

Pro sports at the highest is very transparent.  Either you have it or you don't.  No amount of hype or celebrity is going to help on the field.  Tim Tebow and Anna Kournikova were two such examples.  We will know in a couple of years if Olivia has the goods.  In the meantime, it's great if her story gets more people interested in the NWSL.

In my lifetime the one athlete who truly exceeded his hype/celebrity was Bo Jackson playing baseball.  _"Bo Jackson says hello!"_.  He was THE star among stars.


----------



## Emma (Aug 20, 2021)

what-happened said:


> Ha...you beat me to it.  She's 15.


She's 15 and I fully support her dreams but Canada is correct.  If you play in the pros, you have to play pro level.  If you aren't playing at a pro level, then you're just there for publicity and taking another pro's playing time and spot on the team.


----------



## what-happened (Aug 20, 2021)

Emma said:


> She's 15 and I fully support her dreams but Canada is correct.  If you play in the pros, you have to play pro level.  If you aren't playing at a pro level, then you're just there for publicity and taking another pro's playing time and spot on the team.


So she's not playing pro level?  

Look, I get that she is in the spotlight and that many will be critical.  Appears to me that she is aware of that and handles it with poise and grace.  

And fine, criticize away.  At least Canada's criticism was soccer based, which is a good thing.


----------



## Emma (Aug 20, 2021)

what-happened said:


> So she's not playing pro level?
> 
> Look, I get that she is in the spotlight and that many will be critical.  Appears to me that she is aware of that and handles it with poise and grace.
> 
> And fine, criticize away.  At least Canada's criticism was soccer based, which is a good thing.


I'm fully supportive of her dreams, her path, and her parents sacrifices.  I do hope she plays up to the pro level soon but I agree with Canada's soccer critique.  A 15 year old playing pro should make an impact on a team, not only from a lucky free kick.  She is very poised and I'm proud of her for that.  I don't think she's playing up to the level of the other players on the field during matches, which then indicates she's there for Nike's and Portland's publicity sake and not to improve the women's soccer game.  Here's hoping this will change with a few more games of experience but I've watched some of those YNT games OM participated in and it's very similar to this performance.


----------



## lafalafa (Aug 20, 2021)

Nice freekick, happy for her.  

Hope to see many more.  Good luck to the young lady in the playoffs going forward.


----------



## what-happened (Aug 20, 2021)

Emma said:


> I'm fully supportive of her dreams, her path, and her parents sacrifices.  I do hope she plays up to the pro level soon but I agree with Canada's soccer critique.  A 15 year old playing pro should make an impact on a team, not only from a lucky free kick.  She is very poised and I'm proud of her for that.  I don't think she's playing up to the level of the other players on the field during matches, which then indicates she's there for Nike's and Portland's publicity sake and not to improve the women's soccer game.  Here's hoping this will change with a few more games of experience but I've watched some of those YNT games OM participated in and it's very similar to this performance.


So you think it's a publicity stunt that she's even on the field?  Does a 15 year old need to be an impact player on a pro team?  Is it enough that she's able to play at all?  I don't think the Thorns are relying on her to win games.  

 I have no idea, but how many minutes has she played this year?


----------



## Emma (Aug 20, 2021)

'





what-happened said:


> So you think it's a publicity stunt that she's even on the field?  Does a 15 year old need to be an impact player on a pro team?  Is it enough that she's able to play at all?  I don't think the Thorns are relying on her to win games.
> 
> I have no idea, but how many minutes has she played this year?


It's starting to look like a publicity stunt.  At first, I was hoping it was based on merit but it doesn't appear that way based on her current performances.  All the young boys who come on the field and play in pro leagues, they are always impact players.  They aren't just put in the field because they are young and can hang. When you're young, you lack experience but can make up for it with excessive speed and skills above and beyond other current players on the field.  I'm not seeing it there for OM.  If she was a college freshman, would Portland have chosen to pick her up in the draft?  Or did they only do it for the publicity because she's a 15 year old?


----------



## crush (Aug 20, 2021)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Pro sports at the highest is very transparent.  Either you have it or you don't.  No amount of hype or celebrity is going to help on the field.  Tim Tebow and Anna Kournikova were two such examples.  We will know in a couple of years if Olivia has the goods.  In the meantime, it's great if her story gets more people interested in the NWSL.
> 
> In my lifetime the one athlete who truly exceeded his hype/celebrity was Bo Jackson playing baseball.  _"Bo Jackson says hello!"_.  He was THE star among stars.


Bo was #1.  I do remember Shea Cotton getting GOAT when he balled at Mater Dei.  When he was 15, they called him a man child and the next great one.


----------



## crush (Aug 20, 2021)

what-happened said:


> So you think it's a publicity stunt that she's even on the field?  Does a 15 year old need to be an impact player on a pro team?  Is it enough that she's able to play at all?  I don't think the Thorns are relying on her to win games.
> 
> I have no idea, but how many minutes has she played this year?


This is how you will find out the truth.  Put cash on the line and the coaches job.  Tell the coaches of both teams the following:  Coaches, the winner of this one game will get $500,000 cash bonus.  The loser will get fired.  This will 100% get you the truth.  I asked old dd coach about this very topic when my player balled 24/7 back in the day.  I was super suspicious of moves dude would make.  Anyway, I asked him what his real starting line up would be of the two age groups he was coaching if the winning coach got $25K bonus for each victory and $100,000 bonus for GDA champ.  He told me what the line up would be and my dd made the cut, playing up.  However, because of the pay per play model, he had to make the owners happy and all the parents happy and that in of itself is harder for a coach then just tryin to win the damn game.  Does that make sense?


----------



## crush (Aug 20, 2021)

Emma said:


> I'm fully supportive of her dreams, her path, and her parents sacrifices.  I do hope she plays up to the pro level soon but I agree with Canada's soccer critique.  A 15 year old playing pro should make an impact on a team, not only from a* lucky free kick*.  She is very poised and I'm proud of her for that.  I don't think she's playing up to the level of the other players on the field during matches, which then indicates she's there for Nike's and Portland's publicity sake and not to improve the women's soccer game.  Here's hoping this will change with a few more games of experience but I've watched some of those YNT games OM participated in and it's very similar to this performance.


GK guess wrong and that is not about luck.  For a 15 year old playing with olders, that was a hell of a kick.  It had good spin and it went in.  She had a great cross for assist too.


----------



## what-happened (Aug 20, 2021)

Emma said:


> '
> It's starting to look like a publicity stunt.  At first, I was hoping it was based on merit but it doesn't appear that way based on her current performances.  All the young boys who come on the field and play in pro leagues, they are always impact players.  They aren't just put in the field because they are young and can hang. When you're young, you lack experience but can make up for it with excessive speed and skills above and beyond other current players on the field.  I'm not seeing it there for OM.  If she was a college freshman, would Portland have chosen to pick her up in the draft?  Or did they only do it for the publicity because she's a 15 year old?


I watched LAG play this weekend.  Last 10-15 mins they put in an 18 and 19 yr old.  They each played similarly to OM.  Held their own but showed their physical immaturity from time to time (bodied off the ball, pace not as high, etc). 

All of your points are valid.  We will see how it plays out.


----------



## espola (Aug 20, 2021)

Emma said:


> '
> It's starting to look like a publicity stunt.  At first, I was hoping it was based on merit but it doesn't appear that way based on her current performances.  All the young boys who come on the field and play in pro leagues, they are always impact players.  They aren't just put in the field because they are young and can hang. When you're young, you lack experience but can make up for it with excessive speed and skills above and beyond other current players on the field.  I'm not seeing it there for OM.  If she was a college freshman, would Portland have chosen to pick her up in the draft?  Or did they only do it for the publicity because she's a 15 year old?


The Thorns coaches are obviously comfortable enough with her play that they are letting her take corner kicks and free kicks within goal range.  Do you suppose they had orders (suggestions?) from Nike to do that?  (OM conspiracy theory #27)


----------



## Emma (Aug 20, 2021)

espola said:


> The Thorns coaches are obviously comfortable enough with her play that they are letting her take corner kicks and free kicks within goal range.  Do you suppose they had orders (suggestions?) from Nike to do that?  (OM conspiracy theory #27)


I don't think it's a conspiracy but I do think they are trying to get her involved as much as they can because they chose to bring her on to their team, which I think is great if she develops into an impact player.  I'm still routing for her to continue her development and turn into the player Nike and Thorns are hoping she can become.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Aug 20, 2021)

People get confused about what an elite player is. "Barely touched the ball or wasn't in the game." is said a lot about OM.
What Olivia Moultrie gives you in almost every game in the many times I've seen her, is one or two moments where she either scores a goal or creates a goal and that's something very few players, even at the Pro level can do.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Aug 20, 2021)

OM found her way into the game when they moved her out of the central position.  She was involved in a majority of the offensive build up in the 2nd.  

She’s been given the chance due to injuries and minute mitigation for players returning from Olympic duty.  IMHO, she’s done well and will only continue to improve.  

Too much shade being thrown her way……


----------



## Kickers99 (Aug 20, 2021)

I saw more 2nd half, but agree more with Kicker than Canada. When she received the ball, she made the right choices and played within the game and made nice passes to her teammates to put them in attacking positions. Was she Messi? No. Did she make some mistakes, yes. But she played solid offensively imo. Was a part in 1 goal on corner, scored on free kick, and in pk's coach put her in under tons of possible scrutiny, and she delivered without any question. There were at least 3 free kicks that were blocked to put things in perspective and she was not one of them. Give her some credit at least.


----------



## crush (Aug 20, 2021)

Kickers99 said:


> I*Was she Messi? No.*


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 20, 2021)

what-happened said:


> I watched LAG play this weekend.  Last 10-15 mins they put in an 18 and 19 yr old.  They each played similarly to OM.  Held their own but showed their physical immaturity from time to time (bodied off the ball, pace not as high, etc).
> 
> All of your points are valid.  We will see how it plays out.


An 18 or 19 old. Really. Try again. If we are going to compare male to female counterparts. Is she Rooney, Ronaldo, Mbappe?


----------



## oh canada (Aug 20, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> SHE'S 15!


Yes, that's how the PR machine wants you to review her play and potential.  "She's doing all this at 15, just wait till she's 21!"   It kinda makes an excuse for mediocre play -- oh, but she's only 15.  And when she has a moment of success it's headline grabbing -- 15 year old does this!  

Don't forget, yes she's 15 years of age, but she's had 10 years of the best training and coaching and soccer lifestyle money can buy.  With a childhood dedicated to soccer at the exclusion of everything else, she's likely accrued the same number of soccer training hours as 25 year old women in the league.  Likely, that will limit her upside potential as the years go on.  

Nobody knows how much more improvement she will have, maybe a lot, maybe a little?  But I don't think we should be giving her a pass on poor/mediocre play "because she's 15yrs old."  In "soccer years" she is much older and experienced.


----------



## Emma (Aug 20, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> An 18 or 19 old. Really. Try again. If we are going to compare male to female counterparts. Is she Rooney, Ronaldo, Mbappe?


This is what I'm getting at.  It's not that I think she played terribly for a 15 year old.  She was great for a 15 year old.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Aug 20, 2021)

oh canada said:


> Yes, that's how the PR machine wants you to review her play and potential.  "She's doing all this at 15, just wait till she's 21!"   It kinda makes an excuse for mediocre play -- oh, but she's only 15.  And when she has a moment of success it's headline grabbing -- 15 year old does this!
> 
> Don't forget, yes she's 15 years of age, but she's had 10 years of the best training and coaching and soccer lifestyle money can buy.  With a childhood dedicated to soccer at the exclusion of everything else, she's likely accrued the same number of soccer training hours as 25 year old women in the league.  Likely, that will limit her upside potential as the years go on.
> 
> Nobody knows how much more improvement she will have, maybe a lot, maybe a little?  But I don't think we should be giving her a pass on poor/mediocre play "because she's 15yrs old."  In "soccer years" she is much older and experienced.


So in your opinion a goal and an assist is a poor showing?  Ok, is your expert opinion based on your extensive Coaching career or your long playing career at the collegiate and professional levels?

The overall fanfare is great for the women’s game. Is it a little overblown?  Yah, likely.  

But your overly harsh review of her play makes you loose credibility.


----------



## oh canada (Aug 20, 2021)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> People get confused about what an elite player is. "Barely touched the ball or wasn't in the game." is said a lot about OM.
> What Olivia Moultrie gives you in almost every game in the many times I've seen her, is one or two moments where she either scores a goal or creates a goal and that's something very few players, even at the Pro level can do.


When I see it consistently during the run of play I will happily sing her praises.  Right now all that can be fairly stated is that she has a good set piece/corner kick.


----------



## crush (Aug 20, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> An 18 or 19 old. Really. Try again. If we are going to compare male to female counterparts. Is she Rooney, Ronaldo, Mbappe?


Look at this stud when he was 17.  First 151 minutes was tough and rough.  I havent finished the whole thing yet but he is the real deal.


----------



## crush (Aug 20, 2021)

oh canada said:


> Yes, that's how the PR machine wants you to review her play and potential.  "She's doing all this at 15, just wait till she's 21!"   It kinda makes an excuse for mediocre play -- oh, but she's only 15.  And when she has a moment of success it's headline grabbing -- 15 year old does this!
> 
> Don't forget, yes she's 15 years of age, but she's had 10 years of the best training and coaching and soccer lifestyle money can buy.  With a childhood dedicated to soccer at the exclusion of everything else, she's likely accrued the same number of soccer training hours as 25 year old women in the league.  Likely, that will limit her upside potential as the years go on.
> 
> Nobody knows how much more improvement she will have, maybe a lot, maybe a little?  But I don't think we should be giving her a pass on poor/mediocre play "because she's 15yrs old."  In "soccer years" she is much older and experienced.


She will be on the team and that's all that matters.  She earned it and worked hard for her chance.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 20, 2021)

crush said:


> Look at this stud when he was 17.  First 151 minutes was tough and rough.  I havent finished the whole thing yet but he is the real deal.


I know.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 20, 2021)

oh canada said:


> When I see it consistently during the run of play I will happily sing her praises.  Right now all that can be fairly stated is that she has a good set piece/corner kick.


PM me.


----------



## crush (Aug 20, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> PM me.


It would be cool to have a pinch kicker to come in for free kicks and corners.  She is nails at 15 kicking wise and I would suspect she would be the best at kicking.  I saw the videos and I saw with my eyes back in the day.  She scored at least 3 goals a game and she got tot ake all the free kicks because she was money...lol!  The speed & quickness is what I'm not so sure can hang with.  Messi and Chrsitiano had IT at 15 & 17 respectfully, meaning they had God given speed & quickness.  Plus, they took a beating from the older fellas.  I just dont see her at 21 being the all time greatest.  No way.  She will be on the team that matters and that's ok.


----------



## oh canada (Aug 20, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> So in your opinion a goal and an assist is a poor showing?  Ok, is your expert opinion based on your extensive Coaching career or your long playing career at the collegiate and professional levels?
> 
> The overall fanfare is great for the women’s game. Is it a little overblown?  Yah, likely.
> 
> But your overly harsh review of her play makes you loose credibility.


"overly harsh" ?  c'mon.  i gave her an average rating in the second half and below avg in first.  watch the game and read my post.  did you watch the game?  the first thing i wrote is she had great free kicks.  doesn't take more than an average soccer dad to see that her play was very mediocre but for those.  If you see otherwise then you're biased.

I catch the same heat for giving objective opinions criticizing Nike's other media darling, Alex M.  

When she makes a golaso like Shea Groom's from the game, I will happily celebrate.  (unfortunately, i couldn't even find a link to Groom's goal to post here -- got lost in the hoopla over the 15-year-old's free kick--kinda makes my point)


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Aug 20, 2021)

That's my point. She doesn't have to be consistently involved in the run of play. She has a huge impact in one or two moments in every game. She "consistently" changes games.



oh canada said:


> When I see it consistently during the run of play I will happily sing her praises.  Right now all that can be fairly stated is that she has a good set piece/corner kick.


----------



## what-happened (Aug 20, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> An 18 or 19 old. Really. Try again. If we are going to compare male to female counterparts. Is she Rooney, Ronaldo, Mbappe?





LASTMAN14 said:


> An 18 or 19 old. Really. Try again. If we are going to compare male to female counterparts. Is she Rooney, Ronaldo, Mbappe?


Mbappe


----------



## Kicker4Life (Aug 20, 2021)

oh canada said:


> "overly harsh" ?  c'mon.  i gave her an average rating in the second half and below avg in first.  watch the game and read my post.  did you watch the game?  the first thing i wrote is she had great free kicks.  doesn't take more than an average soccer dad to see that her play was very mediocre but for those.  If you see otherwise then you're biased.
> 
> I catch the same heat for giving objective opinions criticizing Nike's other media darling, Alex M.
> 
> When she makes a golaso like Shea Groom's from the game, I will happily celebrate.  (unfortunately, i couldn't even find a link to Groom's goal to post here -- got lost in the hoopla over the 15-year-old's free kick--kinda makes my point)


“Poor/Mediocre” were your words not mine….


----------



## espola (Aug 20, 2021)

Whole game.  Highlights at about 1:45, just before the kicks --


----------



## espola (Aug 20, 2021)

In English --


----------



## ToonArmy (Aug 21, 2021)

She's on vs Lyon ESPN2


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Aug 21, 2021)

ToonArmy said:


> She's on vs Lyon ESPN2


Good game so far!


----------



## watfly (Aug 22, 2021)

Not sure how I feel about criticizing a minor in a public forum, but she asked to be a professional athlete so unfortunately some of that comes with the territory.

All I know is that I'd be super proud of my daughter even if her defense was allegedly "non-existent".   I wish OM the best of luck and couldn't careless if she is there for purely PR reasons.  How many kids do we know that are on high-level soccer team for reasons unrelated to skill?  Life isn't fair, worry about your own kid.


----------



## Emma (Aug 22, 2021)

watfly said:


> Not sure how I feel about criticizing a minor in a public forum, but she asked to be a professional athlete so unfortunately some of that comes with the territory.
> 
> All I know is that I'd be super proud of my daughter even if her defense was allegedly "non-existent".   I wish OM the best of luck and couldn't careless if she is there for purely PR reasons.  How many kids do we know that are on high-level soccer team for reasons unrelated to skill?  Life isn't fair, worry about your own kid.


The criticism is not towards OM.  She's a great soccer player for a 15 year old.  The criticism is towards the decision by Portland to play her over their existing players.  If you watch the Final OL v Thorns game, you will notice how OM is not ready for this league yet, IMHO (as is with all my opinions). 

It was a great game to watch but not a great game for OM.

OM did a great thing by opening up the NWSL to girls under 18.  I'm very proud of her and grateful for what she did for future girls. 

Watch the game in a foreign language and form your own opinion.





I'm still cheering for her to grow into the game.  She sacrificed a lot and is a hard worker with a lot of talent.  She just isn't ready RIGHT NOW for the  Thorns compared to what they have on their bench.


----------



## oh canada (Aug 22, 2021)

watfly said:


> she asked to be a professional athlete so unfortunately some of that comes with the territory.


Yep, exactly.  If you only want to read fluff opinions about professional soccer players, I suggest sticking to the NY Times and OC Register.  On here, most of us are big boys and girls (and a few nutballs--i don't need to name them) who can have respectful, deeper conversations about players and the game.  It is sexist to treat her any differently, which you seem to want to do.  Sorry it hurts your feelings to read constructive criticism about a PROFESSIONAL athlete who is being promoted as the heir apparent to the USWNT #10 position.  I'm guessing your kid(s) skin is thicker than yours.  Thank goodness.



watfly said:


> couldn't careless if she is there for purely PR reasons.


You are on a lonely island with that opinion.  I understand they had to play her in a high profile game after the legal victory.  But, the more I see her play, the more I think (like @Emma) she's just not ready yet for that level.  The game vs. Lyon is further support for that thesis.  (zero game impact and looked unsure of herself at times throughout the 60' she played)  @Sunil Illuminati and a couple others disagree, and I respect their differing soccer opinion.  Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.  But, nobody is saying she never will be ready and I don't think anyone is rooting against her (what's the point?).  But, there's no need to rush her.  And, there's certainly no reason to shut down voices who agree with that line of thought.  Maybe in the meantime, we uncover a few elite #10s who are now playing in college and end up being better than the "prodigy".

Need a tissue?


----------



## watfly (Aug 22, 2021)

oh canada said:


> Yep, exactly.  If you only want to read fluff opinions about professional soccer players, I suggest sticking to the NY Times and OC Register.  On here, most of us are big boys and girls (and a few nutballs--i don't need to name them) who can have respectful, deeper conversations about players and the game.  It is sexist to treat her any differently, which you seem to want to do.  Sorry it hurts your feelings to read constructive criticism about a PROFESSIONAL athlete who is being promoted as the heir apparent to the USWNT #10 position.  I'm guessing your kid(s) skin is thicker than yours.  Thank goodness.
> 
> 
> You are on a lonely island with that opinion.  I understand they had to play her in a high profile game after the legal victory.  But, the more I see her play, the more I think (like @Emma) she's just not ready yet for that level.  The game vs. Lyon is further support for that thesis.  (zero game impact and looked unsure of herself at times throughout the 60' she played)  @Sunil Illuminati and a couple others disagree, and I respect their differing soccer opinion.  Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.  But, nobody is saying she never will be ready and I don't think anyone is rooting against her (what's the point?).  But, there's no need to rush her.  And, there's certainly no reason to shut down voices who agree with that line of thought.  Maybe in the meantime, we uncover a few elite #10s who are now playing in college and end up being better than the "prodigy".
> ...


Um Ok.  I'm not sure what I said that triggered the ad hominem attacks (irony noted).  I agree that if she wants to play professional soccer that she has to take the criticism that comes with it.  However,  it doesn't change the fact that she is only 15.  I also don't dispute you or Emma's assessment of her performance.  She very well may not be ready; however, the club/coach may believe she puts more butts in seats (IDK, does Portland even allow people to attend events?).  The Thorns first priority is the bottom line, not developing players.  Could that be a short-sighted mistake, maybe, but if you believe the "the game is the best teacher" maybe its best that she's playing.  I'll leave that up to the coach, club, her and her parents to make that decision.


----------



## crush (Aug 22, 2021)

watfly said:


> Um Ok.  I'm not sure what I said that triggered the ad hominem attacks (irony noted).  I agree that if she wants to play professional soccer that she has to take the criticism that comes with it.  However,  it doesn't change the fact that she is only 15.  I also don't dispute you or Emma's assessment of her performance.  She very well may not be ready; however, the club/coach may believe she puts more butts in seats (IDK, does Portland even allow people to attend events?).  The Thorns first priority is the bottom line, not developing players.  Could that be a short-sighted mistake, maybe, but if you believe the "the game is the best teacher" maybe its best that she's playing.  I'll leave that up to the coach, club, her and her parents to make that decision.


Dude is picking on a 15 year old girl....lol.  Whose the loco one now.  Talk about nut jobs.....lol!


----------



## Emma (Aug 22, 2021)

crush said:


> Dude is picking on a 15 year old girl....lol.  Whose the loco one now.  Talk about nut jobs.....lol!


I really don't mind your thoughts and tangents back to your DD because it's entertaining, but for someone who doesn't like name calling and bullies, you sure do throw it out a lot when people disagree with you.


----------



## Emma (Aug 22, 2021)

watfly said:


> Um Ok.  I'm not sure what I said that triggered the ad hominem attacks (irony noted).  I agree that if she wants to play professional soccer that she has to take the criticism that comes with it.  However,  it doesn't change the fact that she is only 15.  I also don't dispute you or Emma's assessment of her performance.  She very well may not be ready; however, the club/coach may believe she puts more butts in seats (IDK, does Portland even allow people to attend events?).  The Thorns first priority is the bottom line, not developing players.  Could that be a short-sighted mistake, maybe, but if you believe the "the game is the best teacher" maybe its best that she's playing.  I'll leave that up to the coach, club, her and her parents to make that decision.


I completely agree with your reason as to why OM was played by the Thorns, publicity and selling tickets.  It's short sighted because people will see through it quickly and not take their daughters to go watch.  It diminishes the value of women's soccer.   Women's PRO soccer should be about skills, not a popularity contest.


----------



## pokergod (Aug 22, 2021)

Emma said:


> I completely agree with your reason as to why OM was played by the Thorns, publicity and selling tickets.  It's short sighted because people will see through it quickly and not take their daughters to go watch.  It diminishes the value of women's soccer.   Women's PRO soccer should be about skills, not a popularity contest.


I watched the game, saw her play a few times at academy level, couple points:  1.  Interesting that the Portland team seems to like her, 2.  her first pass that sent a forward in was terrific, 3.  after that she really did nothing and had some bad touches, 4.  I wonder if this is best for her development or this is the nike machine making decisions, she does not seem ready minus set pieces and passing and 5.  wish her the best and playing Lyon may not be the best litmus test... but I hope someone with the Thorns will do the best for her long term growth.


----------



## crush (Aug 22, 2021)

Emma said:


> I really don't mind your thoughts and tangents back to your DD because it's entertaining, but for someone who doesn't like name calling and bullies, you sure do throw it out a lot when people disagree with you.


I never said I wasn't a nut job either.  He went after Wat Fly for some reason and that was crazy nut job attack, moo.  I just think were all nut jobs if were on here in the first place,  Dude from Canada knows his soccer but he's a nut job too, just like you.  Were crazy soccer nuts


----------



## Emma (Aug 22, 2021)

crush said:


> I never said I wasn't a nut job either.  He went after Wat Fly for some reason and that was crazy nut job attack, moo.  I just think were all nut jobs if were on here in the first place,  Dude from Canada knows his soccer but he's a nut job too, just like you.  Were crazy soccer nuts


Watfly and Canada can handle their own battles.  Agreed we're all a little nutty here.


----------



## crush (Aug 22, 2021)

Emma said:


> Watfly and Canada can handle their own battles.  Agreed we're all a little nutty here.


Funny you said that and Wat Fly agreed.  I see my error.  I suck at this btw.  I have no manners because I feel like time is short and were all getting robbed.  I'll let those two handle things and mine my own business.


----------



## watfly (Aug 22, 2021)

Emma said:


> I completely agree with your reason as to why OM was played by the Thorns, publicity and selling tickets.  It's short sighted because people will see through it quickly and not take their daughters to go watch.  It diminishes the value of women's soccer.   Women's PRO soccer should be about skills, not a popularity contest.


Minor aged prodigies have gotten the benefit of the doubt for a long time.  See Freddy Adu.  I guess the fact that they do doesn't really bother me that much.  Maybe because of my background, Im just not a fan of negative comments about minors.  Being labeled a PR stunt is a tough description to put on a 15 year old. (im not attributing that to you Emma).  Plenty of adult pros have played worse and not be labeled such.

Letting minors play professional sports is a tough balancing act between being a professional and being a kid.  You cannot deny her that opportunity if boys can and she has earned it.  I don't think middle aged, armchair coaches like me should be microanalyzing her play.  Only time will tell if she earned her spot and whether the decision to play, and be played, is a mistake or not.  It's far too early to reach that conclusion.


----------



## watfly (Aug 22, 2021)

crush said:


> Funny you said that and Wat Fly agreed.  I see my error.  I suck at this btw.  I have no manners because I feel like time is short and were all getting robbed.  I'll let those two handle things and mine my own business.


Don't read too much into it, I appreciate your support.  

Like OhCanada said I might be on a lonely island.  You may be stuck there too, but I'd strongly suggest separate palm trees.


----------



## crush (Aug 22, 2021)

watfly said:


> Don't read too much into it, I appreciate your support.
> 
> Like OhCanada said I might be on a lonely island.  You may be stuck there too, but I'd strongly suggest separate palm trees.


*We can each have a palm tree on this lonely Island.  Pick your seven bro.  Remember, were stuck here together so choose wisely.  *


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Aug 22, 2021)

Emma said:


> The criticism is not towards OM.  She's a great soccer player for a 15 year old.  The criticism is towards the decision by Portland to play her over their existing players.  If you watch the Final OL v Thorns game, you will notice how OM is not ready for this league yet, IMHO (as is with all my opinions).
> 
> It was a great game to watch but not a great game for OM.
> 
> ...


I watched the game. Thanks for posting it @Emma. Congrats to the Thorns. They won a hard-fought battle. My impression was that OM's touches were above the average for her team. There were quite a few bad ones and a handful of very bad ones for the Thorns as Lyon pressured well and appeared very athletic - although I don't know if they are pretty typical for women's professional soccer as I don't see much of it. Isn't Lyon considered to be among the top teams in the world? That should probably be taken into consideration when evaluating the play of the Thorns and OM in this game.

I can see the argument that OM can be helpful to the Thorns now. I agree with @Sunil Illuminati in terms of one or two moments a game that can tilt the outcome. Having that special talent for putting the ball exactly where it needs to be is game-changing in soccer. Sure, basketball can come down to the final shot, but there have been many, many shots that go in prior to the last shot. In soccer, there may not be any. It was also apparent that she is not as explosive as any of the better attackers in this game. While she didn't stand out in this game, there was nothing I saw that indicated she didn't belong on her own merits.


----------



## Emma (Aug 23, 2021)

kickingandscreaming said:


> I watched the game. Thanks for posting it @Emma. Congrats to the Thorns. They won a hard-fought battle. My impression was that OM's touches were above the average for her team. There were quite a few bad ones and a handful of very bad ones for the Thorns as Lyon pressured well and appeared very athletic - although I don't know if they are pretty typical for women's professional soccer as I don't see much of it. Isn't Lyon considered to be among the top teams in the world? That should probably be taken into consideration when evaluating the play of the Thorns and OM in this game.
> 
> I can see the argument that OM can be helpful to the Thorns now. I agree with @Sunil Illuminati in terms of one or two moments a game that can tilt the outcome. Having that special talent for putting the ball exactly where it needs to be is game-changing in soccer. Sure, basketball can come down to the final shot, but there have been many, many shots that go in prior to the last shot. In soccer, there may not be any. It was also apparent that she is not as explosive as any of the better attackers in this game. While she didn't stand out in this game, there was nothing I saw that indicated she didn't belong on her own merits.


Every player will have one or two impact moments, as most bench  parents will dwell on these to push for more play time, but a true impact player creates these moments consistently throughout the game.  The one ball that went over the defender for a speed race was tough as her teammate was not in a position to win that foot race and OM had more space and time to move the ball herself to give her teammate time.  OM was unable to retain possession or intercept balls but for maybe 2-3 plays, not counting simple negative passes to defenders.  There were moments I was excited as I thought OM created great plays but in rewinding it, the player was not OM.  Sunil's comments made me  pay more attention to those things.  After OM left the game, the team had more opportunities.  The stats first half were very lopsided because Thorns were backtracking to help her.  The Portland Coach knew it too.  Lyon is a tough team to play against but a 15 year old prodigy that belongs on the Thorns starting line up should be able to handle it because Thorns is a great team too.

I'm a sucker for young players and cheering them on.  Putting young players in a position where they are just floating doesn't help all players succeed.  Watching OM through the years (because my daughter and I are fans), she's the type of player that builds confidence through being on top, not the bottom.  Some players grow more when they are the bottom players or mid players, but some thrive more as the top players. Maybe the Coach realized this and is trying to put her in positions where she can feel this way.  OM thrives on teams where she's a top player.  One soccer mom's observation through the years. 

What an experience for OM, to play in an international Pro championship game at 15, nothing will take that away regardless of why she was given that opportunity.   Still routing her on and hoping she finds her way to be an impact player consistently in the NWSL in the near future because Freddy is not the future our family had envisioned for OM.


----------



## timmyh (Feb 2, 2022)

Reports are out today that high school junior Jaedyn Shaw is in preseason training camp with the Washington Spirit.  Looks likely the OM lawsuit really does mean a new day is dawning with regards to women getting similar professional opportunities as men.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Feb 2, 2022)

timmyh said:


> Reports are out today that high school junior Jaedyn Shaw is in preseason training camp with the Washington Spirit.  Looks likely the OM lawsuit really does mean a new day is dawning with regards to women getting similar professional opportunities as men.


I'm not sure how I feel about HS players going pro. 

It's wrong that there were rules not allowing under 18s to not go professional. But at the same time women professional players earnings is peanuts.

Maybe bringing on younger exciting talent will expand the audience. However I doubt if there's additional revenue that it will trickle down from leadership to players (unless agents get involved).

It would be cool to see the youngest / hottest new players on the field (assuming they earn the position) vs the purple haired dinosaurs.


----------



## LongBall (Feb 2, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I'm not sure how I feel about HS players going pro.
> 
> It's wrong that there were rules not allowing under 18s to not go professional. But at the same time women professional players earnings is peanuts.


The "peanuts" idea is not quite as true today as it was before. 
The minimum salary is now $35k.  Average salary is $54k.

Lets take the minimum, and tack on $15k/yr in soccer sponsorships and soccer side hustles.  That equates to a girl earning $200k over the 4 years she would otherwise be in college.

That $200k is more than enough to pay for 4 years of college if the soccer thing doesn't ultimately work out. It is enough to reasonably justify and offset the foregoing of a soccer scholarship.

For many girls, I gotta think this is now a viable option.


----------



## espola (Feb 2, 2022)

LongBall said:


> The "peanuts" idea is not quite as true today as it was before.
> The minimum salary is now $35k.  Average salary is $54k.
> 
> Lets take the minimum, and tack on $15k/yr in soccer sponsorships and soccer side hustles.  That equates to a girl earning $200k over the 4 years she would otherwise be in college.
> ...


Do you think that after 4 years of living on $50k salary a girl would have $200k in the bank?


----------



## LongBall (Feb 2, 2022)

espola said:


> Do you think that after 4 years of living on $50k salary a girl would have $200k in the bank?


No, and good point. 

But in all likelihood the living costs over those 4 years wouldn't be too far off from the typical out-of-pocket costs of the same girl going to college for those 4 years. And it only matters if the professional career in soccer doesn't work out and the girl wants to go back to college.  If it does work out, then obviously the player is in a much better position than they would have been if they chose college. 

I do concede your point, but the professional situation is much more viable and justifiable now than it ever has been. It isn't like the men and probably never will be, but it's closer.


----------



## Kicker 2.0 (Feb 2, 2022)

timmyh said:


> Reports are out today that high school junior Jaedyn Shaw is in preseason training camp with the Washington Spirit.  Looks likely the OM lawsuit really does mean a new day is dawning with regards to women getting similar professional opportunities as men.


Or she’s just training with them to stay sharp during the ECNL down time (which has been done before as I know someone who went to train in Europe with a pro team’s u20’s). One can only speculate.


----------



## GTS (Feb 3, 2022)

Kicker 2.0 said:


> Or she’s just training with them to stay sharp during the ECNL down time (which has been done before as I know someone who went to train in Europe with a pro team’s u20’s). One can only speculate.



Look at the San Diego Waves Preseason Highlights Video, you will see a YNT player for the OC.


----------



## GTS (Feb 3, 2022)

She is not listed as an invite on the preseason roster.


----------



## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Feb 8, 2022)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> A LOT of people think their kid will be a USWNT player when their kid is 8.


Ah the beauty of a blank canvas. 
Dreams of children are a beautiful thing.  
Haven't had to tell my kid yet that sure it's possible but 0.0000001% is a lot closer to 0 than 1. 
For now, I'll let them dream and I'll dream with them.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Feb 8, 2022)

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> Ah the beauty of a blank canvas.
> Dreams of children are a beautiful thing.
> Haven't had to tell my kid yet that sure it's possible but 0.0000001% is a lot closer to 0 than 1.
> For now, I'll let them dream and I'll dream with them.


----------



## GTS (Feb 8, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> View attachment 12856



The one one the preseason video has more going for her than that percent age.  Look closely and you may be able to spot this youth player.

Very well known in the OC clubs.


----------

