# What would you do? Possible disbanding of team...



## Soccer1Bball5 (Dec 18, 2019)

Most of the starters will not be returning so the coach has left us in limbo regarding National Cup. Either the Club will decide to not send the team or if they send the team another coach will take them.  I'm considering 2 Options:
1: Stay with the team and go to NC with the new coach. Team will disband after that.
2: Go back to his old team from last year.
My son is a top keeper and will be welcomed back by the coach and parents of his old team.  He is the only keeper for his current team.  We have not committed to a team next year, as he has multiple options and we will wait to find a team that will balance with his baseball schedule.


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## mlx (Dec 18, 2019)

#1 then move to a better team (level wise).


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## outside! (Dec 18, 2019)

Option 3: If team does not go to NC, take a break if your player agrees.

If you do option 2, be sure to let the old team know you are guesting. Does his old team have a keeper that would be happy to see another keeper?


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## espola (Dec 18, 2019)

Soccer1Bball5 said:


> Most of the starters will not be returning so the coach has left us in limbo regarding National Cup. Either the Club will decide to not send the team or if they send the team another coach will take them.  I'm considering 2 Options:
> 1: Stay with the team and go to NC with the new coach. Team will disband after that.
> 2: Go back to his old team from last year.
> My son is a top keeper and will be welcomed back by the coach and parents of his old team.  He is the only keeper for his current team.  We have not committed to a team next year, as he has multiple options and we will wait to find a team that will balance with his baseball schedule.


We went through that at U14 level, the youngest of the "older" ages, so it was our first experience with the later National Cup dates.  After the holidays and HS season break in the club schedule the coach called for practices to get ready for NC and only 9 showed up.  Some of the players were going out for HS spring sports (mostly baseball), including the manager's kid.  The team dissolved that week; my son transferred to another team with whom he had been guesting for a couple of tournaments (originally an injury replacement arranged by a friend of a friend, then they kept asking him back).


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## Soccer1Bball5 (Dec 18, 2019)

outside! said:


> Option 3: If team does not go to NC, take a break if your player agrees.
> 
> If you do option 2, be sure to let the old team know you are guesting. Does his old team have a keeper that would be happy to see another keeper?


Not sure about the keeper's feelings. The dad would probably be upset. However, my son's old teammates and their parents want him back.


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## Grace T. (Dec 18, 2019)

Soccer1Bball5 said:


> Not sure about the keeper's feelings. The dad would probably be upset. However, my son's old teammates and their parents want him back.


It sounds like you'll be screwing over (at least in part) the team's current keeper for the sake of your keeper then.  You are taking play time away from that kid (who guided the team through the season) for the sake of your keeper (who made the choice to leave for other pastures).  Only you can decide if that's o.k., but you have to look at their ages and play levels (more acceptable at the higher/older levels) as well as if the kid is a FT keeper or plays other positions and how they'll share play time (your kid gets it all v splitting 50/50).

But if they have a keeper, and you move over just to guest for cup, that might actually be worse for the other kid.  If you tell the kid now you are moving over permanently, he can start looking for a new team, because you will have shattered the team's confidence in that keeper, and I wouldn't want to be around a coach/team that would do that to my kid anyways.


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## Soccer1Bball5 (Dec 18, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> It sounds like you'll be screwing over (at least in part) the team's current keeper for the sake of your keeper then.  You are taking play time away from that kid (who guided the team through the season) for the sake of your keeper (who made the choice to leave for other pastures).  Only you can decide if that's o.k., but you have to look at their ages and play levels (more acceptable at the higher/older levels) as well as if the kid is a FT keeper or plays other positions and how they'll share play time (your kid gets it all v splitting 50/50).
> 
> But if they have a keeper, and you move over just to guest for cup, that might actually be worse for the other kid.  If you tell the kid now you are moving over permanently, he can start looking for a new team, because you will have shattered the team's confidence in that keeper, and I wouldn't want to be around a coach/team that would do that to my kid anyways.


Thank you for this perspective. Although I wouldn't make a final decision based on the feelings of another player, I wouldn't agree with your first sentence. When we guested earlier this year with another top team, we were offered a spot even though the coach had committed to their keeper being the sole keeper. We did not accept. That would have been "screwing over" the keeper. 
We are at the age where there should be 2 keepers and the keeper was told from the beginning that they would look for a 2nd keeper. The team just never found one.  The team was promoted based on their performance last year including going deep into National Cup, of which my son was a major contributor.  Although most of the team stayed in tact, they have not done well and morale is already low. My son tells me the negative comments his old teammates have about their current situation. As far as playing time, I would not ask for full time, they should split time. I hate seeing kids on the bench. Unfortunately, we are also at the age where the top teams have over 18 players and some only get 10-15 minutes of play time.


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## Grace T. (Dec 18, 2019)

Soccer1Bball5 said:


> TAlthough most of the team stayed in tact, they have not done well and morale is already low. My son tells me the negative comments his old teammates have about their current situation. As far as playing time, I would not ask for full time, they should split time. I hate seeing kids on the bench. Unfortunately, we are also at the age where the top teams have over 18 players and some only get 10-15 minutes of play time.


Ah.  It seems then a lot of what you say (age, level, fact other keeper was put on notice, split play time) would mitigate things, but then query why would the kids dad be upset?  Yes, people can always be upset but if the coach has been crystal clear with them, doesn't seem very justified.

Bigger question for you then would be why (unless you have no other better options for a team next season, or you have some recruitment reason you'd need to swallow it for or this is the final season your kid is going to play) you would want to go back into a situation?  Unless the other kid is a disaster and is costing them games because of really basic mistakes, goalkeepers typically don't win games for their teams (they just keep them competitive)....it's the offense that wins the games.....you don't score you don't win.  So your kid's entry is unlikely to turn things around particularly if they are that far gone (and they tend to be when the teammates start mouthing off against their team).

If you guest only or guest with the option to stay on if it goes well, it's possible your kid's entry will delay the day of reckoning for the team, but a goalkeeper can't avoid it, particularly if folks are that unhappy.


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## mlx (Dec 19, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> It sounds like you'll be screwing over (at least in part) the team's current keeper for the sake of your keeper then.  You are taking play time away from that kid...


How is this wrong? This is competitive soccer. The best gets to play. A kid want's to play more? well, be better than the other ones in that position.


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## Eagle33 (Dec 19, 2019)

Soccer1Bball5 said:


> Thank you for this perspective. Although I wouldn't make a final decision based on the feelings of another player, I wouldn't agree with your first sentence. When we guested earlier this year with another top team, we were offered a spot even though the coach had committed to their keeper being the sole keeper. We did not accept. That would have been "screwing over" the keeper.
> We are at the age where there should be 2 keepers and the keeper was told from the beginning that they would look for a 2nd keeper. The team just never found one.  The team was promoted based on their performance last year including going deep into National Cup, of which my son was a major contributor.  Although most of the team stayed in tact, they have not done well and morale is already low. My son tells me the negative comments his old teammates have about their current situation. As far as playing time, I would not ask for full time, they should split time. I hate seeing kids on the bench. Unfortunately, we are also at the age where the top teams have over 18 players and some only get 10-15 minutes of play time.


You want your son, who is a goalkeeper, to split time??? First time I hear this. As a keeper, you want to stay away from teams or coaches splitting time as far as you can in a competitive environment.


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## forsomuch (Dec 19, 2019)

The post HS pre NC breakup dance is performed every year. As a former team manager it was a nightmare. Somebody needs to take control of the situation and poll each player/family to see if you have enough players to get to national cup. In my experience anyone who won't commit 100% is a NO. The number of returnees should be made public and formal decision should be made sooner rather than later. That way players can start transferring and finding new teams rather than put up with the "limbo".


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## timbuck (Dec 19, 2019)

Will your current/old team have enough players for National Cup?  When are the "starters" departing?
The club commitment is from whenever you sign on through the end of State/National Cup.  Try to keep that commitment if possible.
You can look for a new team in the meantime and even practice / play with them.


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## Grace T. (Dec 19, 2019)

mlx said:


> How is this wrong? This is competitive soccer. The best gets to play. A kid want's to play more? well, be better than the other ones in that position.



The higher the level and the higher the age, o.k.  But you know my stance on the entire winning v. development thing, particularly at the younger ages.

There's also a difference between wanting to win and being an A-hole and winning (not saying the OP is doing this, but the thing cutting against it is left the team for an "upgrade" and now when that upgrade doesn't work out wants back on the old team), particularly when we aren't talking about pro academies.  I think competition is great, but I don't happen to believe in win at all cost and think ethics doesn't check out on the foot of the soccer pitch for how you treat people.


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## Soccer1Bball5 (Dec 19, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> You want your son, who is a goalkeeper, to split time??? First time I hear this. As a keeper, you want to stay away from teams or coaches splitting time as far as you can in a competitive environment.


Not "wanting" to split time. More like I'm accepting of the fact that he would split time just until the season is over.


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## Soccer1Bball5 (Dec 19, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> The higher the level and the higher the age, o.k.  But you know my stance on the entire winning v. development thing, particularly at the younger ages.
> 
> There's also a difference between wanting to win and being an A-hole and winning (not saying the OP is doing this, but the thing cutting against it is left the team for an "upgrade" and now when that upgrade doesn't work out wants back on the old team), particularly when we aren't talking about pro academies.  I think competition is great, but I don't happen to believe in win at all cost and think ethics doesn't check out on the foot of the soccer pitch for how you treat people.


Actually we left the team for a "downgrade." Last year he played with a great defense. I decided to challenge my son by going to a flight 1 team that did not finish high in the standings. Not as good a defense meant more shots on goal. And definitely not about wins. Our team had only 3 wins, but only 3 teams had a lower number of goals allowed, which I consider a success to my experiment. At the end of the season, I spoke with the coach and committed through National Cup. He's the one who then decided that he did not think we should go to NC and if they club still let us go he would not coach us.


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## Soccer1Bball5 (Dec 19, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Will your current/old team have enough players for National Cup?  When are the "starters" departing?
> The club commitment is from whenever you sign on through the end of State/National Cup.  Try to keep that commitment if possible.
> You can look for a new team in the meantime and even practice / play with them.


They have enough players. No one was leaving prior to NC. The coach just feels that with 5 starters leaving, they would be "checked out" so he doesn't want to coach the team through NC. He presented us the options of waiting to see if the club will pull the team for NC or if they don't pull the team then go to NC with a temp coach (who's priorities are probably elsewhere).


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## Soccer1Bball5 (Dec 19, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> If you tell the kid now you are moving over permanently, he can start looking for a new team, because you will have shattered the team's confidence in that keeper, and I wouldn't want to be around a coach/team that would do that to my kid anyways.


As I think more, I agree the other keeper should know as soon as possible if we will commit. My main reason for not committing is because we get many requests to guest play and I want my son to have as much experience as possible. By not committing, we would be open to play with other teams in between our baseball schedule. I spoke with the coach and he's agreed to allow us to guest play with other clubs so we will be committing to them. 
I had 3 challenges for my son when we "downgraded" to the new team. 1) Still have an impact on Goals Allowed. 2) Play so phenomenally that the other team's parents come up to you and compliment you. 3) Get invited to ODP for the 3rd consecutive year.  He met the first 2.  We were committed to staying through National Cup to try to achieve the 3rd challenge.  However, with the coach not wanting to take the team to NC, my son won't have that opportunity. Instead, we look forward to the challenge of making an impact on his old team.


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## Grace T. (Dec 19, 2019)

Soccer1Bball5 said:


> Actually we left the team for a "downgrade." Last year he played with a great defense. I decided to challenge my son by going to a flight 1 team that did not finish high in the standings. Not as good a defense meant more shots on goal. And definitely not about wins. Our team had only 3 wins, but only 3 teams had a lower number of goals allowed, which I consider a success to my experiment. At the end of the season, I spoke with the coach and committed through National Cup. He's the one who then decided that he did not think we should go to NC and if they club still let us go he would not coach us.


Smart, but the fate of unsuccessful teams is to fall apart and not go to Cups.  It shouldn't be the case, but that's pretty much par for the course around SoCal Soccer, regardless of level.  With your son leaving that's probably the nail in the coffin, so I get why you were so agonized over the choice.


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## timbuck (Dec 19, 2019)

Dare I ask what age group?  If it's an "olders" team, who cares who the coach is?  If the boys have been playing soccer for 5+ years, they should know their style or play and strengths.  I think a coach is a very important piece.  But for a 3-5 game "tournament", you really just need someone out there to get the team warmed up and manage the subs.  If your coach is bailing, use it as motivation and "Stick it to him" by winning the damn thing.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Dec 19, 2019)

Goalies should be held to higher standards in terms of commitment. Stick with your current team but also give the coach a deadline to find players for national cup or disband the team so all players can find a club.


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## Keepermom2 (Dec 19, 2019)

I agree with SoccerFan4Life.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Dec 20, 2019)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Goalies should be held to higher standards in terms of commitment. Stick with your current team but also give the coach a deadline to find players for national cup or disband the team so all players can find a club.


Goalies should receive  higher level of commitment from the clubs, coaches and teammates, but they don't.  For all the physical attributes required to be a good goalie, the mental part is even more important, yet few clubs/coaches know how to nurture that part of the game.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Dec 20, 2019)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Goalies should receive  higher level of commitment from the clubs, coaches and teammates, but they don't.  For all the physical attributes required to be a good goalie, the mental part is even more important, yet few clubs/coaches know how to nurture that part of the game.


Goalie is the toughest position and I’m glad my kids never wanted to play that position.  My point is if you lose a goalie right before a tournament, you put the entire team at risk.   Now if your child was not treated fairly by the coach or the kids, sure leave if you want.   I am just saying there’s added responsibility on a goalie.   Keep in mind the upside of being a goalie is that they play every minute unless the team has a 2nd goalie.   You can’t say for the rest of the players.


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## MamaBear5 (Dec 20, 2019)

Are you going back to the old team for the next season? Or are you just guesting for NC?


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## outside! (Dec 20, 2019)

I am not a keeper parent and I am not sure of the age group here. But if we are talking olders, almost every high level team will have at least two keepers on the roster in case of injuries or illness. Hopefully they get to split time when traveling to tournaments, but I have seen keepers travel out of state and not play.


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## espola (Dec 20, 2019)

outside! said:


> I am not a keeper parent and I am not sure of the age group here. But if we are talking olders, almost every high level team will have at least two keepers on the roster in case of injuries or illness. Hopefully they get to split time when traveling to tournaments, but I have seen keepers travel out of state and not play.


It works out better if your backup keeper is also a strong enough field player that he can get his minutes that way.


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## Keepermom2 (Dec 20, 2019)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Goalies should receive  higher level of commitment from the clubs, coaches and teammates, but they don't.  For all the physical attributes required to be a good goalie, the mental part is even more important, yet few clubs/coaches know how to nurture that part of the game.


Agree...and not knowing where we were going to play would mess up my daughter.    Like other people said, you have to make decisions in the best interest of your child while considering the commitment aspects.  The reality is, this isn't a major career decision...it is kid's soccer.  I would let your kid drive the decision with some consulting on commitment.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Dec 20, 2019)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Goalie is the toughest position and I’m glad my kids never wanted to play that position.  My point is if you lose a goalie right before a tournament, you put the entire team at risk.   Now if your child was not treated fairly by the coach or the kids, sure leave if you want.   I am just saying there’s added responsibility on a goalie.   Keep in mind the upside of being a goalie is that they play every minute unless the team has a 2nd goalie.   You can’t say for the rest of the players.


50/50 goalie split is usually either lower level team or youngers (in our experience)  
Unless it is a low level team a goalie cannot play on the field at the level as the field players (at least in our experience) 
My DD has finished every season with the club she committed to at tryouts (at the club's election 1 year she moved up an age group to help out a team were the goalie was injured); even when she knew she was moving on after National Cup.  We believe in honoring our commitments, even if clubs don't always reciprocate the commitment.


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## socalkdg (Dec 23, 2019)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Goalies should be held to higher standards in terms of commitment. Stick with your current team but also give the coach a deadline to find players for national cup or disband the team so all players can find a club.


Then pay for my daughters keeper gloves.    103 degree fever,  sneezing, coughing, bruised foot, sore knee, hurt arm, our kids play.  Amazing what our keepers and us parents go through.   Then again playing every single minute for the past 4 years is pretty nice.  Didn't realize how nice until daughter started playing Varsity basketball and sits on the bench 3/4 of the game.


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