# Pulling out of State cup?



## sweeperkeeper (Jan 22, 2019)

Hello everyone,

I'm wondering if any team on this board has pulled out of State cup or any tournament for that matter?  Generally, there is a fine that occurs when this happens and I'm trying to see who pays this.  Is it only the families who pull out or does the team just divide it up?  I can add some context.

Our team is a lower level team.... We were around .500 for most of the season and planned on going to State Cup mostly for the experience.  We figured we would go 1-2 but either way we decided to go knowing that we could have to travel a bit.  Of course we got put in Lancaster which is 3 hours from us.  Adding to it is that our goalie broke his foot and our backup is basically refusing to play goalie.  We have someone who can play but we would prefer it if he didn't as he is a better field player.  As the team stand now, we would probably go 0-3.  The parents are having a hard time justifying the trip only to get crushed.  As of now, there are 3 families that are for sure not going.   

So the goalie's mom was our team parent and I am getting stuck with this mess.  In the mean time, we are looking to pick up some players and might get lucky but as it stands now we are running down to 12 kids, and hopefully no one else decides to skip.  

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.


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## mirage (Jan 22, 2019)

It seems to me that you're in a tough spot but consider the following....

- Team parent's responsibility remains with or without his/her kid being able to play.  The commitment is made by the parent to the entire team.

- Lancaster sucks.  There's no sugar coating it and the fact that the team probably will go 0-3 sucks even more.  That said, what example are the parents displaying to their kids?  Do you all really want to set an example to your kids that when tough gets going, its okay to quit?  Worse, if you don't like it, then simply walk away, even though you've made a commitment to the other players, team and the club?

Not being harsh or lacking empathy for your situation.  If it was my kid and his team, I would tell him to do the best you can and compete.  To the parents of the team, I'd say suck it up and deal with it.  They've all made a commitment to the team for the season.

As for the keeper's parent who happens to be the manager, just give the job back and say its your responsibility and not mine.  Just remind the person that you have no issue helping out but the he/she has to act for the team - not just for their kid.


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## espola (Jan 22, 2019)

mirage said:


> It seems to me that you're in a tough spot but consider the following....
> 
> - Team parent's responsibility remains with or without his/her kid being able to play.  The commitment is made by the parent to the entire team.
> 
> ...


I always looked forward to Lancaster.  It was close enough to be easy to get to, but far enough away to be "away".  And three different times there was a midnight police chase that ended right next to our hotel, or a crime that required lights and sirens police response right next door.


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## RedCard (Jan 22, 2019)

mirage said:


> - Lancaster sucks.  There's no sugar coating it .


Being from LA, Galway Downs isn’t an easy drive either, especially making that left turn and the the parking


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## MWN (Jan 22, 2019)

One of my best memories was taking my son to Lancaster for his first State Cup.  

The Game: We had joined the team after the season ... moved from Rec to Club and he was the 2nd GK.  He got very little playing time and we had to go back to Lancaster the following weekend, he was put in after the No.1 GK felt a bit ill ... going to PKs ... the team lost, if I recall.

The Experience: We stayed in a somewhat seedy hotel (Knights Inn).  The boy and I talked about important stuff (to him) on the drive up, had dinner with the team, watched TV together in the hotel room, joked around, had breakfast, and generally connected.  We bought the obligatory State Cup sweatshirt and have fond memories of that trip.

Tell all your parents that we go to Lancaster not because we think its better than Hawaii, we go knowing that it is a pain in the ass, because its an opportunity to be with our kids.  There will be a time VERY SOON, when your kid holes up in his room playing video games, texting/snapchatting/or whatever the tech of the day is.  He may still play soccer, but after the game he doesn't want a ride back to the house with you ... he is going with his friends to In/Out and Kyle, his teammate is driving.

You and your parents have exactly {......} much time with your kids and {...............................................................................} where you kid will be on his own page as a teenager or all grown up.  Don't waste it.


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## timbuck (Jan 22, 2019)

Lancaster isn’t that bad.  It’s not Del Mar. 
But there’s a yard house and an in n out. 
Just lock your car.


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## Paul Spacey (Jan 22, 2019)

When you are up against it and things look bleak, that is often the best time for young players to develop character and resilience, two things many young people (inside and outside of youth sports) could do with a dose of in this age. 

Every opportunity for building character and resilience should be taken, if it seems like a tough/negative experience initially. If framed correctly, parents can usually turn it into a positive learning experience.


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## ForumParent (Jan 22, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Lancaster isn’t that bad.  It’s not Del Mar.
> But there’s a yard house and an in n out.
> Just lock your car.



There’s also this ridiculously good cupcake store next door in Palmdale:  https://www.nadiacakes.com/our-cupcakes

OP, I’m sorry.  No insight on your actual question about a cost/ penalty but that situation is rough. You all went in to this with the right mindset—going for the experience (including the obligatory State Cup sweatshirt).  If you have enough players to take the field, I hope your team goes.


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## sweeperkeeper (Jan 22, 2019)

I agree that the message to kids is a poor one and more than one family has called out those not wanting to make the trip.  However, there are kids that might be switching clubs so I don't think there is the same level of commitment to the team versus if they knew they were coming back. 

I'm all about the drive and hanging out with our kid for the long car ride.  Hoping that we get a few players in the next 2 weeks.


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## Eagle33 (Jan 23, 2019)

sweeperkeeper said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm wondering if any team on this board has pulled out of State cup or any tournament for that matter?  Generally, there is a fine that occurs when this happens and I'm trying to see who pays this.  Is it only the families who pull out or does the team just divide it up?  I can add some context.
> 
> ...


From State Cup Rules

3.10. Teams wishing to withdraw from the competition after applying to the Tournament must have their head coach or team manager notify the State Cup Program Coordinator at StateCupinfo@calsouth.com in writing (e-mail will suffice) of their desire to withdraw. Teams withdrawing prior to the Draw Date, but after the registration deadline, will be assessed $125.00 administrative fee. Teams withdrawing after the Draw Date shall forfeit their entry fee and be subject to further disciplinary action including a fine up to $500. 

3.11. Teams withdrawing after publication of the game schedule for their division are subject to a $500 fine which shall be invoiced to the affiliate club.


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## Messi>CR7 (Jan 23, 2019)

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/06/photos-soccer-fields-around-the-world/562862/?fbclid=IwAR25esmHgpihQd8cQ_rXp7SqdN_yoBMfgiIrcdPlcZg6Ap-6kJourbZDyx0

Show the team some of the poor conditions that other children play soccer in around the world (courtesy of socalkdg's earlier post)............and tell them to stop whining.  If you don't love or at least enjoy the game, it then becomes a chore and you will always be entrenched in unnecessary club soccer drama.

Frankly, it's better to go knowing the opponents are all slightly better than going for three sure wins.


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## timbuck (Jan 23, 2019)

Lots of teams limp into State Cup with skeleton crews.  Injuries, moving to a new team, coach bailing or lack of interest after the holidays is pretty common.
It's a fun experience for the kids.  Might suck for the parents.  But don't let the kids know that.  
Don't go in thinking you're going to lose your 3 games and be done.  As they say in sports "That's why we play the game."  Maybe your opponents will have the same issues.  Maybe their GK will get stomach flu the morning of the first game and can't take the field.  Maybe your team can prep kids to step in and be a "team player" and play keeper for the weekend.  Maybe the coach will get tossed out of the game and not have a backup.
You play the cards you are dealt and hope for the best.
Get those kids a damn $45 sweatshirt so they can walk around the school / mall / beach and be proud that they are competitors.


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## Messi>CR7 (Jan 23, 2019)

sweeperkeeper said:


> I agree that the message to kids is a poor one and more than one family has called out those not wanting to make the trip.  However, there are kids that might be switching clubs so I don't think there is the same level of commitment to the team versus if they knew they were coming back.
> 
> I'm all about the drive and hanging out with our kid for the long car ride.  Hoping that we get a few players in the next 2 weeks.


Below is what many softball teams do when they go to Lancaster for their version of the State Cup.  Not sure why this never caught on in soccer, but something for your team to consider:
-The team rents a 12-people van and one or two parents drive all the kids the whole weekend (to and back from Lancaster, to and back from each game).  It's a real road trip for the kids.
-Before the trip, the kids all get together and decorate the bus with chalks (with their names, jersey #, etc.)
-Other than the driver parents, you don't need to be there an hour ahead for the match.  You just show up right before game time 
-If you don't like the long drive to Lancaster, Metrolink station is nearby.  You can take the train there and just Uber around town.

Good luck.


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## jrcaesar (Jan 23, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Lots of teams limp into State Cup with skeleton crews. Injuries, moving to a new team, coach bailing or lack of interest after the holidays is pretty common.


Son's U11 season: Maybe half of rostered players are "Club level," but team is strong enough defensively to compete through a 1st weekend. Starting central mid's family decides after schedules are out not to make the drive, oh, and they are already moving to a new club anyway (but not State Cup eligible). Kids and parents find out at the field that he's not coming. That was...odd.


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## sweeperkeeper (Jan 23, 2019)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Below is what many softball teams do when they go to Lancaster for their version of the State Cup.  Not sure why this never caught on in soccer, but something for your team to consider:
> -The team rents a 12-people van and one or two parents drive all the kids the whole weekend (to and back from Lancaster, to and back from each game).  It's a real road trip for the kids.
> -Before the trip, the kids all get together and decorate the bus with chalks (with their names, jersey #, etc.)
> -Other than the driver parents, you don't need to be there an hour ahead for the match.  You just show up right before game time
> ...


This sounds like a great idea! I think if the team was excited to go then I would bring it up.  At this point I just hope to get 14 players to make the trip.  However, I will think about it for my younger.

Tim....  You make a good point that we have no idea what the other team will look like.  I'm sure that teams that have been picking up players for the local tournaments might not have that luxury if most teams are playing that weekend.


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## Paul Spacey (Jan 23, 2019)

jrcaesar said:


> Son's U11 season: Maybe half of rostered players are "Club level," but team is strong enough defensively to compete through a 1st weekend. Starting central mid's family decides after schedules are out not to make the drive, oh, and they are already moving to a new club anyway (but not State Cup eligible). Kids and parents find out at the field that he's not coming. That was...odd.


That kind of thing teaches the kid a really poor lesson about commitment to a team/cause. Unfortunately, it's very common and happens all the time. And we wonder why some kids are not resilient or loyal enough and jump from club to club or new thing to new thing all the time. There you go.


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## outside! (Jan 23, 2019)

jrcaesar said:


> Son's U11 season: Maybe half of rostered players are "Club level," but team is strong enough defensively to compete through a 1st weekend. Starting central mid's family decides after schedules are out not to make the drive, oh, and they are already moving to a new club anyway (but not State Cup eligible). Kids and parents find out at the field that he's not coming. That was...odd.


On the flip side, I remember a starting GK that was moving to a new team, but wanted to honor the commitment to her current Hotspurs team by staying with the team until after State Cup. The family drove all the way to Lancaster, but the coach (Paolo Landini) did not let her play at all that weekend since he questioned her "commitment" to the team. I have always make sure to tell people about what happened when they ask about him.


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## Surfref (Jan 23, 2019)

Go for the experience.  No one hates Lancaster more than me, but we always seemed to have a good time despite the 3 hour drive from San Diego.  We stayed at the Hampton Inn on the north side of Lancaster next to the minor league baseball stadium.  After the girls were done playing almost all of us walked across the street and watched the baseball game.  The girls had a blast, ate too much junk food, and got a bunch of autographs from no-name baseball players.


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## Eagle33 (Jan 23, 2019)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Below is what many softball teams do when they go to Lancaster for their version of the State Cup.  Not sure why this never caught on in soccer, but something for your team to consider:
> -The team rents a 12-people van and one or two parents drive all the kids the whole weekend (to and back from Lancaster, to and back from each game).  It's a real road trip for the kids.
> -Before the trip, the kids all get together and decorate the bus with chalks (with their names, jersey #, etc.)
> -Other than the driver parents, you don't need to be there an hour ahead for the match.  You just show up right before game time
> ...


It may sound like a great idea but it also a huge liability. Specially driving to Lancaster in February with 12 kids in the van.


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## sweeperkeeper (Jan 23, 2019)

outside! said:


> On the flip side, I remember a starting GK that was moving to a new team, but wanted to honor the commitment to her current Hotspurs team by staying with the team until after State Cup. The family drove all the way to Lancaster, but the coach (Paolo Landini) did not let her play at all that weekend since he questioned her "commitment" to the team. I have always make sure to tell people about what happened when they ask about him.


Wow that's some BS right there.


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## Banana Hammock (Jan 23, 2019)

sweeperkeeper said:


> At this point I just hope to get 14 players to make the trip.


10 and 11 person teams are not uncommon at state cup.  Sons team played with 14 the whole season.  14 seems to be a high number to be worrying about.


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## sweeperkeeper (Jan 23, 2019)

Banana Hammock said:


> 10 and 11 person teams are not uncommon at state cup.  Sons team played with 14 the whole season.  14 seems to be a high number to be worrying about.


This is good to know....  It is our first time up there and not sure what to expect.  We had a 14 man roster all year and that felt a little short given injuries, vacations, etc.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Jan 23, 2019)

outside! said:


> On the flip side, I remember a starting GK that was moving to a new team, but wanted to honor the commitment to her current Hotspurs team by staying with the team until after State Cup. The family drove all the way to Lancaster, but the coach (Paolo Landini) did not let her play at all that weekend since he questioned her "commitment" to the team. I have always make sure to tell people about what happened when they ask about him.


Due to the timing of tryouts my daughter knew on 2 occasions that she would be leaving an old team for a new team before national cup.  Both times she stayed with her "old" team through national cup; I wouldn't have it any other way.  1st time the coach asked us to stay and we did, no issues no drama (she was the only keeper). 2nd time I was nervous as the coach had been acting in ways that I was not a fan of and he had another keeper.  I was determined that even if the coach elected not to play her, she would be suited up and ready to play; the other players and parents would know that it was the coach's decision not to play her.  Coach ended up riding her as far as the team could go losing in the elimination game to the team that ended up winning the tournament.  I was very proud of her.  Honor your commitments.


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## socalkdg (Jan 23, 2019)

We are stuck going into State Cup without a keeper, silly daughter of mine broke her hand playing basketball at school.   She will be helping the two girls that will take over at keeper, who are both forwards, and we will be there as well at the games.  As a team we felt we could do really well this year, so it will be difficult.  I feel really bad for the girls and other parents and hope they realize the process is more important then any wins or losses.  There are still many things they can work on even when lacking at certain positions.


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## Messi>CR7 (Jan 23, 2019)

sweeperkeeper said:


> This is good to know....  It is our first time up there and not sure what to expect.  We had a 14 man roster all year and that felt a little short given injuries, vacations, etc.


You can also find available girls to fill the roster if needed .  I don't know what the rule is, but I have seen quite a few girls (and usually they are one of the better players on the team) on younger boys teams over the years.


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## mirage (Jan 23, 2019)

RedCard said:


> Being from LA, Galway Downs isn’t an easy drive either, especially making that left turn and the the parking


Galway is not much better in my mind either. Absolutely horrible parking lot.  Takes several washes to get all the fine grit out of the car.

Over the years, State/National Cups have taken us to Apple Valley and Lancaster. Ventura/Oxnard, Ryan Park in Escondido, Coronado, Oceanside and Silverlakes. And who can forget San Bernardino Blast and Soccer complexes.

Frankly, I don't understand why these tournaments cannot be held at Great Park, Oceanside and Silverlakes.  Between the three, there are more enough soccer fields.  The Ventura/Oxnard complex is nice too.  So include those fields to accommodate LA/Ventura Co teams too.


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## pewpew (Jan 23, 2019)

If you're getting a hotel in Lancaster.. stay away from anything along Sierra Hwy from the top of Lancaster to the bottom of Palmdale. Unless you're looking for hookers and drugs. Then by all means that's the spot. Stay with well-known hotel chains.


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## Grace T. (Jan 23, 2019)

mirage said:


> Frankly, I don't understand why these tournaments cannot be held at Great Park, Oceanside and Silverlakes.  Between the three, there are more enough soccer fields.  The Ventura/Oxnard complex is nice too.  So include those fields to accommodate LA/Ventura Co teams too.


How do they go around picking the venues?  For the second round league cup, they had us in a field which was comical other than be centrally located for the 3 teams playing.  It was in a downtown elementary school.  There was almost no grass on the field, just mud, and a large hole marked with cones on one corner and a baseball cage cutting short another.  The goals were permanently affixed to the ground, but one was larger than the other, and they were misaligned (so the players were constantly on the run in a classic CR's diagonal).  Is it a cost thing?  An availability thing?  A politics thing?


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## jpeter (Jan 23, 2019)

Pulling out rarely works and it gets messy  



Grace T. said:


> How do they go around picking the venues?  For the second round league cup, they had us in a field which was comical other than be centrally located for the 3 teams playing.  It was in a downtown elementary school.  There was almost no grass on the field, just mud, and a large hole marked with cones on one corner and a baseball cage cutting short another.  The goals were permanently affixed to the ground, but one was larger than the other, and they were misaligned (so the players were constantly on the run in a classic CR's diagonal).  Is it a cost thing?  An availability thing?  A politics thing?


Cost and contracts,  CS had/has some deals or ownership with the lancaster complex and apple valley at some point I recall.  The wind & dust storms can be brutal out there but one of my son favor cup memories was playing in the snow in apple valley and advancing to the next round at lancaster.


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## outside! (Jan 24, 2019)

Many parents on the sidelines of other teams can thank a Nat Cup game in Lancaster when the wind was blowing 44 mph for killing the microphone on my camera. Ever since then it almost never picks up sound and has saved many parent's comments from becoming immortal on YouTube.


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## Kicker4Life (Jan 24, 2019)

outside! said:


> On the flip side, I remember a starting GK that was moving to a new team, but wanted to honor the commitment to her current Hotspurs team by staying with the team until after State Cup. The family drove all the way to Lancaster, but the coach (Paolo Landini) did not let her play at all that weekend since he questioned her "commitment" to the team. I have always make sure to tell people about what happened when they ask about him.


What piece of P.O.S that guy must be.


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## Banana Hammock (Jan 24, 2019)

jpeter said:


> Pulling out rarely works and it gets messy


Exactly what I was thinking


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Jan 24, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> What piece of P.O.S that guy must be.


His girls '05 team was very competitive right before the age split.  Then his best players left for Rebels and Albion - that team got decimated


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## outside! (Jan 24, 2019)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> His girls '05 team was very competitive right before the age split.  Then his best players left for Rebels and Albion - that team got decimated


He is good at coaching the game, and will say very nice things to try to recruit you. His true character was shown in the way he treated the keeper I referred to. Treating a preteen player like that is childish. Coaches need to respect when players move to a team that better fits their needs, especially when it is a strong player moving to a higher level team. The facts are that it is difficult to get higher level development and exposure at a small, east SD county club.


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## Red Devil Fan (Jan 24, 2019)

Coaches should make sure they have players signed and committed to the following season before entering State Cup. If not just play a tournament in Jan and continue to train until your contract is up for the season. Clubs should start pulling out of State Cup to put pressure on Cal South to stop allowing clubs from holding tryouts until the end of State Cup like Cal North does.


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## G03_SD (Jan 24, 2019)

sweeperkeeper said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm wondering if any team on this board has pulled out of State cup or any tournament for that matter?  Generally, there is a fine that occurs when this happens and I'm trying to see who pays this.  Is it only the families who pull out or does the team just divide it up?  I can add some context.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't it be better to have the first round for Presidents Division in Lancaster and the elimination rounds for Govt in Silver lakes. It stinks to drive so far for a single game.


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## outside! (Jan 24, 2019)

G03_SD said:


> Wouldn't it be better to have the first round for Presidents Division in Lancaster and the elimination rounds for Govt in Silver lakes. It stinks to drive so far for a single game.


Presidents is a higher level than Governors. In general higher level games tend to get better fields. Having had a player that rose through the ranks, I agree with this policy.


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## G03_SD (Jan 24, 2019)

outside! said:


> Presidents is a higher level than Governors. In general higher level games tend to get better fields. Having had a player that rose through the ranks, I agree with this policy.


I don't think level of play has anything to do with better fields.


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## timbuck (Jan 24, 2019)

Red Devil Fan said:


> Coaches should make sure they have players signed and committed to the following season before entering State Cup. If not just play a tournament in Jan and continue to train until your contract is up for the season. Clubs should start pulling out of State Cup to put pressure on Cal South to stop allowing clubs from holding tryouts until the end of State Cup like Cal North does.


This is a great idea. Right now, State Cup entry for younger teams is due by November 15th.  Which is basically the end of the fall league season.
Teams register. Everyone is on board to play.  Then the next 4 weeks, everyone runs around at tryouts trying to find the next best thing.  Coaches leave for the next best thing.  Practice starts back up again a week later and half of the team has 1 foot out the door, with another half of the team waiting to come in the door.
Cal-South could do one of the following:
1.  Hold off on entry until mid-January and only allow teams to enter that have 80% of their fall team playing.
2.  Mandate that clubs can't have tryouts until State Cup has been completed.


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## espola (Jan 24, 2019)

Red Devil Fan said:


> Coaches should make sure they have players signed and committed to the following season before entering State Cup. If not just play a tournament in Jan and continue to train until your contract is up for the season. Clubs should start pulling out of State Cup to put pressure on Cal South to stop allowing clubs from holding tryouts until the end of State Cup like Cal North does.


Then it gets down to the definition of "tryout".


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## javiecua03 (Jan 24, 2019)

sweeperkeeper said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm wondering if any team on this board has pulled out of State cup or any tournament for that matter?  Generally, there is a fine that occurs when this happens and I'm trying to see who pays this.  Is it only the families who pull out or does the team just divide it up?  I can add some context.
> 
> ...





sweeperkeeper said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm wondering if any team on this board has pulled out of State cup or any tournament for that matter?  Generally, there is a fine that occurs when this happens and I'm trying to see who pays this.  Is it only the families who pull out or does the team just divide it up?  I can add some context.
> 
> ...


what age group my son can play goalie help out / better field player but also can get the goalie job done .


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## focomoso (Jan 25, 2019)

espola said:


> Then it gets down to the definition of "tryout".


I think a better solution (if this is actually a problem) would be to freeze the State Cup rosters earlier. That way, team jumpers would have an incentive to stay at least until after the cup.


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## espola (Jan 25, 2019)

focomoso said:


> I think a better solution (if this is actually a problem) would be to freeze the State Cup rosters earlier. That way, team jumpers would have an incentive to stay at least until after the cup.


For reasons I don 't understand, they got rid of the "cup-tied" concept which seemed to have the purpose of keeping teams intact after the seeding draw but still allowed players whose teams were not going to participate the freedom to transfer to teams in the tournament up to the roster freeze date.  Sometimes things like this that appear to be illogical and/or counter to an entity's best interest (or at least the entity's previously expressed intent) is the threat of a lawsuit.  But I really don't know and I'm not as much in the insider's loop as I used to be.


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## jpeter (Jan 25, 2019)

There is a thread like this every year it seems,  Cal South is part of the problem but they don't seem to care since the CUP's are their #1 money maker

[Some background before this starts]
Yes my player(s) have enjoyed the cups and won them and have made it as  far a the USYS national championships out of state. But at the same time it gets old and they wanted to move on to something else after rather than playing the same teams again at the same places.  My suggestions are based on our experiences,  my kids are either older now or not playing in CS league any longer so just trying to make things better for the next generations.
[end background]

Just as teams are done with the fall season and should be peak form, let's ignore that, allow transfer and then take a 2-5 month break (olders) and try to put the pieces back together.
This is part of the problem and never really works all that well for many teams.

So what could be done instead? Well like what   Nocal does the league(s) can be regional qualifiers  or you can simply have a regional qualifying tournament right after the league instead of all the thanksgiving tournaments before high school starts.

Roster freeze is when the regional starts or the qualifying league(s)

After the regional tournament the younger who qualified could move  on the the area or whatever you want to call it 2nd phase of the tournament in January.   The teams that didn't make it out of the regional could then have conflict free tryouts, those that are still playing would have to wait until they are done playing. 
This method would cut down on the amount of travel since some of the comp could be local but the schedules would be known in advance.

After the area or 2nd phase the teams that qualified say top 8 would move on the the final phase to determine the Cup champions.

Repeat for the older's & don't give preferred seeding to CRL teams simply because the paid some $$$ and in that league.

Don't allow teams to play down (petitions) or bring players in from other leagues.  All players should have to play at least a minimum number of qualifying league games to play in the cup unless they new or club passes or  transfers.  Limit the number of transfers or new players and have a minimum number of players for continuity (say 9 for younger and 11 for the older)  Require the clubs to cross check players so they don't dual register players just for  Cup's play but allow some sort of club pass say 2 players per team.

Yeah these are rough ideas, some holes I'm sure and they would need some refining, somebodies are gong to say no this or that can be done because of xyz.  That's fine but at the same time provide some alternative or solutions rather than saying can't be done lets just continue with the status quo.

If High school can have non-league, leagues, tourneys and playoffs all within a 3 month or so period why can't club?  same with AYSO but they do draw that out some more

Would this cause the cup tournaments to be less popular and CS to lose some $ yes likely they would but there are solutions like what Coast does with there league cup.

CS could also have a regular open tourney without most of the above stuff  and just let club play that don't qualify in the regional s sort of like want they have done with the CRL cup.

Anyway have fun and enjoy the journey


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## timbuck (Jan 25, 2019)

jpeter said:


> There is a thread like this every year it seems,  Cal South is part of the problem but they don't seem to care since the CUP's are their #1 money maker
> 
> [Some background before this starts]
> Yes my player(s) have enjoyed the cups and won them and have made it as  far a the USYS national championships out of state. But at the same time it gets old and they wanted to move on to something else after rather than playing the same teams again at the same places.  My suggestions are based on our experiences,  my kids are either older now or not playing in CS league any longer so just trying to make things better for the next generations.
> ...


Agree with all of the above.
Cal-South has gotta do something. But my kids will probably age out before that happens.


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## El Clasico (Jan 25, 2019)

People...quit your bitchin' and write your checks.
You people act like it's about you, or even worse, about your child...
For those of you that have trouble with basic concepts, this isn't about you, about logic, or any scheduling issues.

IT IS ABOUT MONEY. LOTS OF MONEY. The only things that change are the changes that bring in more money. Either to Calsouth or to the Mega Clubs themselves!!


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## timbuck (Jan 25, 2019)

I’m sure cal-south resources are very, very busy.
The age group changes, player development initiatives/small sided games,  the coaching class changes and the rising of DA and DPL leagues likely has had them scrambling like crazy over the past few years.  Selecting and scheduling ODP and State Cup is probably not a simple task.  Then you have tons of tournaments that they sanction, player registration, insurance, coaching, referees and crazy parents demanding all kinds of stuff from them.  I'm sure the pay over there isn't spectacular for the amount of work that needs to be done, just to keep the lights on. 

BUT -  They have remained (from what I can tell from the outside) very status quo while the landscape around them has had some dramatic shifts.  Maybe they are just trying to stay caught up and don't have time to breathe - Let alone start to make some changes. 

Does anyone know if Cal-South sees these items that we all talk (complain) about as issues?  Or do they think "Everything is fine.  Soccer in So Cal has never been better. "


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## outside! (Jan 25, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Does anyone know if Cal-South sees these items that we all talk (complain) about as issues?  Or do they think "Everything is fine.  Soccer in So Cal has never been better. "


They haven't published any meeting minutes since July of 2018.
https://www.calsouth.com/en/minutes-board/
Other posters know much more than I, but lots of shenanigans over the past few years.


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## Soccer Cat (Jan 25, 2019)

outside! said:


> On the flip side, I remember a starting GK that was moving to a new team, but wanted to honor the commitment to her current Hotspurs team by staying with the team until after State Cup. The family drove all the way to Lancaster, but the coach (Paolo Landini) did not let her play at all that weekend since he questioned her "commitment" to the team. I have always make sure to tell people about what happened when they ask about him.


My daughter played for him in the past, and that’s not at all like the experience we had.  In fact, there were circumstances with the team where he kept it very professional, even when, in my opinion a couple of the players didn’t deserve it.  I can’t help but think there is more to this story.


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## outside! (Jan 28, 2019)

Soccer Cat said:


> My daughter played for him in the past, and that’s not at all like the experience we had.  In fact, there were circumstances with the team where he kept it very professional, even when, in my opinion a couple of the players didn’t deserve it.  I can’t help but think there is more to this story.


I was there, saw it with my own eyes. She went from starting keeper to benched.


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## Nefutous (Jan 28, 2019)

outside! said:


> I was there, saw it with my own eyes. She went from starting keeper to benched.


Seems pretty typical for a Hotspurs coach. Matt Robertson has been on this site making up lies, bullying and swearing about coaches, parents and young players.  And when caught red handed, failed to accept responsibility.  All around a sad club.


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## outside! (Jan 28, 2019)

Nefutous said:


> Seems pretty typical for a Hotspurs coach. Matt Robertson has been on this site making up lies, bullying and swearing about coaches, parents and young players.  And when caught red handed, failed to accept responsibility.  All around a sad club.


I don't know Matt and don't know much else about Hotspurs. I am sure they have good coaches and not so good coaches like any club.


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## Nefutous (Jan 28, 2019)

outside! said:


> I don't know Matt and don't know much else about Hotspurs. I am sure they have good coaches and not so good coaches like any club.


I am sure they do have some decent coaches, but when the DOC knows about his behavior and does NOTHING, it proves that the poor club culture starts at the top.  Geez the guy called little girls names in PMs and stalked a team.

I was asked to keep quiet but realize that nothing will change if parents allow this type of behavior to go unchecked.  And I gave Mr. Robertson multiple chances to apologize, including introducing myself but he continues to lie.


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## Soccer Cat (Jan 28, 2019)

Nefutous said:


> Seems pretty typical for a Hotspurs coach. Matt Robertson has been on this site making up lies, bullying and swearing about coaches, parents and young players.  And when caught red handed, failed to accept responsibility.  All around a sad club.


Funny, I’ve heard nothing but positive feedback about Matt as a coach.  I have several friends whose kids have played for him, and a couple whose currently play for him.  Great feedback as a keeper coach as well.

In all the years my family has been involved in club soccer, one thing that has remained consistent is the parents being on this forum bad mouthing clubs, all of the clubs.  Like a poster said above there’s good and bad coaches at every club, and parents with good and bad experiences.  Having been around some absolutely crazy sports parents over the years, I shouldn’t expect this behavior wouldn’t end up on this forum as well.  It’s the one part of club sports I will not miss when my kids are done.


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## Nefutous (Jan 28, 2019)

Soccer Cat said:


> Funny, I’ve heard nothing but positive feedback about Matt as a coach.  I have several friends whose kids have played for him, and a couple whose currently play for him.  Great feedback as a keeper coach as well.
> 
> In all the years my family has been involved in club soccer, one thing that has remained consistent is the parents being on this forum bad mouthing clubs, all of the clubs.  Like a poster said above there’s good and bad coaches at every club, and parents with good and bad experiences.  Having been around some absolutely crazy sports parents over the years, I shouldn’t expect this behavior wouldn’t end up on this forum as well.  It’s the one part of club sports I will not miss when my kids are done.


This summer I decided to introduce myself to Robertson at the Great Park. Watching his 04 team he yells and joystickss them the entire second half. When my kids were younger we played his team and 3 of his players kicked our down goalie in the head repeatedly until the ref broke it up and gave 1 red card.  Any decent coach would have pulled all 3 girls out and suspended them. No apologies at all.

As for Roberson being on this site, his screen name was Really and he used his real email address and birthdate.  And he was stupid enough to use the password “Soccer”.  Since I have no culpability and cannot remember where I got all my info from, I have no problem posting all my evidence if you want to continue this nonsense?  Since he is such a great guy, why don’t you ask him to accept responsibility for his poor decisions?


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## Nefutous (Jan 28, 2019)

Although I must say Robertson has brought me many laughs.  When he was called out, he tried to quickly delete all his posts and private messages. Too bad everything had been copied before he was tipped off.


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## MWN (Jan 28, 2019)

outside! said:


> They haven't published any meeting minutes since July of 2018.
> https://www.calsouth.com/en/minutes-board/
> Other posters know much more than I, but lots of shenanigans over the past few years.


I imagine one of the reasons that no minutes have been posted is the Secretary resigned around June/July and its unclear how long Cal South had the vacancy.  There was also some issue with a failed computer, according to the previous minutes.

All I know is the Operational Group works hard and long hours to create a State Cup experience that few other State Association members enjoy.  Cal South is the class of the US Youth Soccer Association, and its teams receive substantial subsidies to attend Regionals, Nationals, and ODP, whereas many other state Associations don't subsidize.  Compared to Cal North, Cal South is the best thing since sliced bread. 

Just like almost every other non-profit with a diverse geographic draw, Cal South has its issues and challenges.  Some of its board members dislike the other board members, each have their special interests/projects, etc.  The Board has traditionally been the biggest impediment because the board members want to micro-manage decisions.  Its not really the fault of the Cal South day-to-day employees, but the Districts within Cal South that keep on electing well intentioned soccer loving volunteers with little executive business experience to the positions.

One of the things we all need to understand is Cal South exists as a State Association of U.S. Youth Soccer and operates under the mandates of USYS.  Its members (Affiliate Members) are the Leagues and Clubs, who elect the Commissioners/Directors.  The players/parents are served by Cal South, but don't really have any say on the management of the organization (they are all non-voting members (Associate Members).  If you have a problem with Cal South, you should be looking at your Club and saying "what are you doing about this?"


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## espola (Jan 28, 2019)

MWN said:


> I imagine one of the reasons that no minutes have been posted is the Secretary resigned around June/July and its unclear how long Cal South had the vacancy.  There was also some issue with a failed computer, according to the previous minutes.
> 
> All I know is the Operational Group works hard and long hours to create a State Cup experience that few other State Association members enjoy.  Cal South is the class of the US Youth Soccer Association, and its teams receive substantial subsidies to attend Regionals, Nationals, and ODP, whereas many other state Associations don't subsidize.  Compared to Cal North, Cal South is the best thing since sliced bread.
> 
> ...


Secretary or not, failing to post board minutes may put their non-profit corporation status at risk.  Let me ask a question for which most people already know the answer -- Are there any soccer parent lawyers out there?


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## MWN (Jan 28, 2019)

espola said:


> Secretary or not, failing to post board minutes may put their non-profit corporation status at risk.  Let me ask a question for which most people already know the answer -- Are there any soccer parent lawyers out there?


Failing to post board minutes in not a problem.  Failing to hold board meetings and keep minutes can be.  The concern is maintaining corporate formalities, the failure to do so is grounds for to pierce the corporate veil  and attach "alter ego" liability to the board members and executives.  At the end of the day, we can assume Board minutes are being kept and its just up to the Secretary and President to finalize and certify those minutes.


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## espola (Jan 28, 2019)

MWN said:


> Failing to post board minutes in not a problem.  Failing to hold board meetings and keep minutes can be.  The concern is maintaining corporate formalities, the failure to do so is grounds for to pierce the corporate veil  and attach "alter ego" liability to the board members and executives.  At the end of the day, we can assume Board minutes are being kept and its just up to the Secretary and President to finalize and certify those minutes.


I see it as a problem.


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## jpeter (Jan 28, 2019)

espola said:


> Secretary or not, failing to post board minutes may put their non-profit corporation status at risk.  Let me ask a question for which most people already know the answer -- Are there any soccer parent lawyers out there?


@MWN I have would venture to guess works in the law field to some degree.

Seems like CS has been keeping more & more private over the years.   Closed door decisions,   fewer commissioners influencing certain decisions that have been talking about on the forum.


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## espola (Jan 28, 2019)

jpeter said:


> @MWN I have would venture to guess works in the law field to some degree.
> 
> Seems like CS has been keeping more & more private over the years.   Closed door decisions,   fewer commissioners influencing certain decisions that have been talking about on the forum.


About 10 years or so ago, when I was our club's delegate to the Cal South annual meeting, there was an article up for vote that completely restructured the way discipline hearings and appeals were conducted.  I spoke with the chairman of the hearing committee, and she said that the proposal for the change came from influential coaches and DOCs who didn't like the way some of the hearings had turned out.  We voted against the change, but it carried anyway.


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## MWN (Jan 28, 2019)

@espola, at the end of the day, Cal South is the State Association for the leagues and local clubs.  If the clubs are not happy with Cal South, they turn to U.S. Club Soccer.  Like any quasi-political organization, you have membership that is active and other members that are not.  Sometimes the vocal minority gets their way and larger clubs have the ability to exert more political pressure than the small clubs (through a presence in multiple districts).  Pretty much how it is at all levels in this world.


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## outside! (Jan 28, 2019)

MWN said:


> All I know is the Operational Group works hard and long hours to create a State Cup experience that few other State Association members enjoy.  Cal South is the class of the US Youth Soccer Association, and its teams receive substantial subsidies to attend Regionals, Nationals, and ODP, whereas many other state Associations don't subsidize.  Compared to Cal North, Cal South is the best thing since sliced bread.


I should have been more even handed in my criticisms of CalSouth. They do have many positive attributes, but they have also turned a blind eye towards many unethical practices. My guess is the people on the ground that make things work are not the main problem, it is a small minority at or near the top. In the end, it is all about money.


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## socalkdg (Jan 28, 2019)

Funny I was just hearing complaints from people in other states with the fact that they have 5-6 "State Cups" each year in their State and they wish it was just one.  Considering we have at 750 teams at the 05 age group, multiply that by all the different ages, then compared to other States that only have 1/3 the number of teams,  they do a decent job.   Now where all the money goes that is a different story.  The bigger an organization becomes, the more difficult to keep it ethical.


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## outside! (Jan 28, 2019)

Will CalSouth ever make the move to digital player cards? The days of kids not playing a game because an adult does not have the player cards should be long behind us.


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## timbuck (Jan 28, 2019)

Should we start a new thread on a Cal-South "Wish / Priority" List?


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## RuffRef (May 9, 2019)

From this past State cup ... its a harsh,, but better learning experience  to go O-3 against top competition vs 3-0 against weaker teams.
I think a GREAT tourney experience is to play the toughest comp first... then have that experience against competition thats is not so formidable.
Making young kids be/think realistically goes along way.


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