# Subject: SCDSL Discovery Division parent, coach and player sideline behavior - PLEASE READ AND PASS



## Zdrone (Sep 24, 2018)

Sent out a short time ago:

To all Discovery Division Team Contacts and Club Officials - *URGENT - PLEASE READ AND FORWARD TO ALL PARENTS/COACHES/PLAYERS*

After the 3rd week of Discovery Division games it is time to send an email addressing the inexcussable parental and coach behavior being exibited during Discovery Division games. This past weekend was especially out of control and the time has come to make some decisions about this type of behavior moving forward.

While the SCDSL and the Discovery Division are not the US Soccer Developmental Academy nor ECNL, this does not make it ok for coaches and parents to behave the way they have been. The Discovery Division is the Elite division in the SCDSL. Teams apply for acceptance and earn their way into this Elite division and are invited in to the division. It would be a shame for teams to not be accepted moving forward because parents and coaches can't control themselves which can happen. We have a zero tolerance for parents who can not sit down and enjoy their kids games and for coaches that take the position that referee abuse is the proper example to set for their players.

Therefore, beginning this weekend, any parent issues on the side line, whether it's one parent or multiple parents on the sideline, the whole sideline (for that team) will be instructed to leave and while that may seem harsh, US Soccer and ECNL would be a whole lot more harsh in the consequences they would impose for such behavior.

Coaches that argue with referees, encourage poor behavior by the parents and condone poor sportsmanship from the players will also be instructed to leave and suspensions will be imposed.

*The parents, coaches and players in this division are held to the highest of standards and we simply will not accept intolerable behavior from teams that are "invited" in to this division.*

*Parents* - complaining to the referees and about the referees gets you nowhere. Emailing me complaining about the referees will not get you a response. We have a policy in place regarding this and we have an On-Site Referee Coordinator to deal with referee issues. Attacking referees but verbally and physically, will only get the offender an extended suspension. The same applies to coaches. It does not matter what club you are with or what your name is. This type of behavior WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

*Players *- Remember the suspensions for Violent Conduct and Referee Abuse. It's a minimum of 3-games and, depending on what the offense is, the disciplinary committee can add more. That's for the 1st offense. Another send-off for Violent Conduct or Referee Abuse is 6-games and your season will be over. Red cards also carry over into next season so don't risk the chance of missing the majoirty of this season and some of next. Red cards can not be argues away, rescinded or changed. 

*Club Officials* - you may want to reiterate to the parents, players and coaching staff so that they understand the consequences of improper behavior and the risk they are taking of not getting accepted in to the Division next season. Maybe a reminder from the Club leadership to those in the Discovery Division will assist everyone in understanding the importance of proper behavior on the sideline.

When SCDSL staff and the Referee Site Coordinator have to sit on a sideline and baby-sit the parents for a full game, there is a problem.

When staff have to sit behind a team bench for a whole game, there is a problem.

When players are trying to calm their parents down on the sideline - that's a problem.

When a player who has been sent-off in a game and is sitting on the bench decides to run on the field and join in another fight - that's a problem.

When a parent decides that attacking a referee and putting in him a chokehold is acceptable behavior - that's a crime.

When a coach verbally assaults a minor referee and follows her to not just her chair but to the parking lot - that's a crime.

When a coach has to be held back by a manager and assistant coach to keep him from attacking a referee - that's a problem.

*Please respect the referees* - even the bad ones - and just sit and enjoy the games. We will deal with the referees if they are not up to our standards. We deal with them quicker than any of you realize so let us do what we do and please just enjoy your children and their games. Respect the parents from the opposing teams. Respect all of the players on the field and be a positive example for the players. Don't be the parent(s) that causes a game to be terminated in the 32nd minute because the parents couldn't control themselves so their child's game gets forfeited because of them, not because of anything happening on this field (yes this happened). 

If you are that unhappy with the referees - be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Become a referee. But remember WHY we have the shortage of quality referees. Because they can't handle the constant abuse from the parents and coaches. We lost no less than 5 referees this weekend becuase of situations involving coaches and parents. Take this seriously.

We will be tracking these issues and we will be clearing sidelines and ejecting coaches.

I hate sending emails like this but the reminder was necessary and hopefully will help parents/coaches/players to understand that the Discovery Division is an honor to play in and everyone's behavior goes a long way ensuring the success of this division in the SCDSL moving forward.

Thank you

Michelle


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## forsomuch (Sep 24, 2018)

Wow, sounds like a few sidelines lost their $&*% last weekend.


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## OCsoccerdad7777 (Sep 24, 2018)

Best quote ever lol

*"Please respect the referees* - even the bad ones - and just sit and enjoy the games. "


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## zags77 (Sep 24, 2018)

Now that Michelle has gotten that email out of the way she can now focus her attention to the Thanksgiving Surf Cup applications.......


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## MA0812 (Sep 24, 2018)

zags77 said:


> Now that Michelle has gotten that email out of the way she can now focus her attention to the Thanksgiving Surf Cup applications.......


Hahahaha....... There is should definitely be mutual ownership for those scenarios described. Parents, coaches, and players all have a code of conduct they need to adhere to and that behavior cant be condoned but leagues have to also take ownership of their product which includes venues, refs, etc. No excuse for that stuff but the leagues have to do a better job at grading/rating refs if that's one of the drivers in the email. There is zero recourse for those who invest thousands into the product. Once a kid gets hurt due to a foul or from an altercation its too late to say we are dealing with the refs. Hopefully that level setting isn't just directed to those on one side of that equation but a reflection in the mirror of how to improve the product for all involved. Police yourself before you attempt to police others. Parents be the example! 

Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is watching because it's the right thing to do.


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## jpeter (Sep 24, 2018)

Forget the game day same water or ice,  bring soap it's cheap and leaves a lasting clean impression


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## mlx (Sep 25, 2018)

Does anybody know what happened that trigger that email?


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## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 26, 2018)

You want to eliminate bad behavior.  Just have someone record the bad behavior from parents and coaches  and post it on YouTube and send it to the entire league.   That would be awesome.   

Regarding poor coaches, if they can't get it right in the pro leagues it's worse at this level.  

Finally discovery league is the dumbest idea ever.   Stop creating new tiers just to make money and make parents  feel like they are so exclusive.


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## NickName (Sep 26, 2018)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> You want to eliminate bad behavior.  Just have someone record the bad behavior from parents and coaches  and post it on YouTube and send it to the entire league.   That would be awesome.


I record most of my kids games.  Parents have commented on hearing themselves after the fact.  They are pretty low key now when I’m filming from the parents side.


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## SPChamp1 (Sep 28, 2018)

The same email came out to all non Discovery Legaue SCDSL teams as well.


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## GunninGopher (Sep 28, 2018)

I'm really curious to hear what happened to prompt this. Was it a single or a a small number of major things, or is it a bunch of minor things? Based on the specifics, I have to think that it there were several major things that have happened in the first weeks of league.


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## Surfref (Sep 28, 2018)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> You want to eliminate bad behavior.  Just have someone record the bad behavior from parents and coaches  and post it on YouTube and send it to the entire league.   That would be awesome.
> 
> Regarding poor coaches, if they can't get it right in the pro leagues it's worse at this level.
> 
> Finally discovery league is the dumbest idea ever.   Stop creating new tiers just to make money and make parents  feel like they are so exclusive.


Post those videos to "Offside" on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/youreoffside/


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## MA0812 (Sep 28, 2018)

GunninGopher said:


> I'm really curious to hear what happened to prompt this. Was it a single or a a small number of major things, or is it a bunch of minor things? Based on the specifics, I have to think that it there were several major things that have happened in the first weeks of league.


Multiple games (boys/girls) that had physical altercations of varying degrees between players on the field in addition to the coach/ref/parent issues listed. Some are directly related to those games that had the incidents. Maybe the 100 + degree heat in Norco for most of the games thus far in Discovery is making everyone a bit edgy.


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## timbuck (Sep 28, 2018)

Nah. It’s the drive on the 91, the $10 parking and the bloody Mary’s at the on-site restaurant.


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## INFAMEE (Sep 28, 2018)

Fuck Discovery just another gimmick to bring in the cheddar.

You can smear all the lipstick on this pig you want they're all still scdl flight 1 teams.


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## MijoPlumber (Sep 30, 2018)

Yea Mijo, all the lipstick in TJ ain’t gonna make this more than flight 1 or flight 2.


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## Toch (Oct 1, 2018)

MA0812 said:


> Hahahaha....... There is should definitely be mutual ownership for those scenarios described. Parents, coaches, and players all have a code of conduct they need to adhere to and that behavior cant be condoned but leagues have to also take ownership of their product which includes venues, refs, etc. No excuse for that stuff but the leagues have to do a better job at grading/rating refs if that's one of the drivers in the email. There is zero recourse for those who invest thousands into the product. Once a kid gets hurt due to a foul or from an altercation its too late to say we are dealing with the refs. Hopefully that level setting isn't just directed to those on one side of that equation but a reflection in the mirror of how to improve the product for all involved. Police yourself before you attempt to police others. Parents be the example!
> 
> Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is watching because it's the right thing to do.



Seems like you want to justify some bad behavior. Hopefully the parent who had the ref in a headlock & the coach who harassed the young ref were arrested


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## Toch (Oct 1, 2018)

SPChamp1 said:


> The same email came out to all non Discovery Legaue SCDSL teams as well.


Is Discovery the response to CSLs Premier?
Slowly SCDSL is morphing into CSL


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## Eagle33 (Oct 1, 2018)

Toch said:


> Is Discovery the response to CSLs Premier?
> Slowly SCDSL is morphing into CSL


Right now in CSL Premier there are maybe top 2-3 true Premier teams and the rest would be Silver Elite at best before SCDSL was formed.


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## MWN (Oct 1, 2018)

Toch said:


> Is Discovery the response to CSLs Premier?
> Slowly SCDSL is morphing into CSL


Sort of but not really, Discovery appears to be in response to DPL, NPL, SuperY and some other gaming circuits that have popped up with similar promises.  What we are seeing is that there is a class of clubs/teams that are looking for high level play with more amenities ... better fields, medical at the field, showcases, more experienced referees, etc.  CSL Premier checks most of those boxes, just without the Showcase.

Where SCDSL kicked and missed is the lack of game video as part of the division.  If its was really a true Discovery division then every game would be filmed from 20'-25' in the air to allow the athletes and parents that are sold this "discovery" concept the opportunity to create recruiting videos and there would be no silly rules regarding outside vendors (assuming insurance was in place).  Calling the division the "_SCDSL Kinda-Sorta-Quasi-Discovery Division for College Coaches-With-Spooky-Extra-Sensory-Remote-Viewing-Abilities_" wouldn't fit on the business cards, so "Discovery Division" is it.

The fundamental difference between CSL and SCDSL remains, which is SCDSL's more liberal player passing (both up and down, regardless of roster level), more liberal team placement with SCDSL allowing coaches to move teams up and down (Flight 3 to Flight 1) based on optimistic belief, in this case CSL is much more rigid, SCDSL is also more geographically concentrated.


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## jpeter (Oct 1, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> Right now in CSL Premier there are maybe top 2-3 true Premier teams and the rest would be Silver Elite at best before SCDSL was formed.


Everything is basically watered down, Top 3-4 in DA and then there is a drop off.   Boysecnl,  SCDSL,  CSL all the same almost.  Even CRL in the some ages like the 2003's few of the top teams in those standings are middle of the pack discovery teams.

What you hope for is close & even competition in what every league you play in consistently but that's very hard to find anymore when everything is spread so thin and wide.

The names are silly and really just about marketing Premier, flight 1, discovery, elite, national league, etc.  Labels for parents


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## timbuck (Oct 1, 2018)

MWN said:


> Sort of but not really, Discovery appears to be in response to DPL, NPL, SuperY and some other gaming circuits that have popped up with similar promises.  What we are seeing is that there is a class of clubs/teams that are looking for high level play with more amenities ... better fields, medical at the field, showcases, more experienced referees, etc.  CSL Premier checks most of those boxes, just without the Showcase.
> 
> Where SCDSL kicked and missed is the lack of game video as part of the division.  If its was really a true Discovery division then every game would be filmed from 20'-25' in the air to allow the athletes and parents that are sold this "discovery" concept the opportunity to create recruiting videos and there would be no silly rules regarding outside vendors (assuming insurance was in place).  Calling the division the "_SCDSL Kinda-Sorta-Quasi-Discovery Division for College Coaches-With-Spooky-Extra-Sensory-Remote-Viewing-Abilities_" wouldn't fit on the business cards, so "Discovery Division" is it.
> 
> The fundamental difference between CSL and SCDSL remains, which is SCDSL's more liberal player passing (both up and down, regardless of roster level), more liberal team placement with SCDSL allowing coaches to move teams up and down (Flight 3 to Flight 1) based on optimistic belief, in this case CSL is much more rigid, SCDSL is also more geographically concentrated.


I think where SCDSL really made an impact (you can decide if it was a good or bad impact) was allowing clubs to field as many teams per age group as they can fill.  Coast has a maximum of 5 teams per age group.  SCDSL does not have this.
So now you have "Mega Clubs" that could field their own gaming circuit.
(In Girls 2005 SCDSL - There are 14 versions of Slammers teams.  10 Pateadores teams.  9 teams with Surf in their name.  )


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## Toch (Oct 1, 2018)

FWRL was 50x better than CRL. CRL was only decent the 1st 2yrs and then it dropped off drastically. SCDSL just gave the wackos the power to run the asylum. CSL was ran by Kim Jung Un. 
But I would prefer CSL of promotion and relegation, which SCDSL agrees with (champions flight) 
If you weren’t first you weren’t making out of Bronze. That simple


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## espola (Oct 1, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I think where SCDSL really made an impact (you can decide if it was a good or bad impact) was allowing clubs to field as many teams per age group as they can fill.  Coast has a maximum of 5 teams per age group.  SCDSL does not have this.
> So now you have "Mega Clubs" that could field their own gaming circuit.
> (In Girls 2005 SCDSL - There are 14 versions of Slammers teams.  10 Pateadores teams.  9 teams with Surf in their name.  )


Big club imitation branding is the new "development", which a few years ago replaced "academy" as a club marketing tool.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 1, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> Right now in CSL Premier there are maybe top 2-3 true Premier teams and the rest would be Silver Elite at best before SCDSL was formed.


It really depends on each age group.  For example in rhe 2003 age group, only 6 of the top 30 teams ranked in youthsoccer.com come from SCDSL.  I think it's just 1 of the top 10 as well. 

In this group CSL is by far the better league.  Flight 2 is equivalent to Silver and flight 1 Europa is about a Silver Elite.


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## jpeter (Oct 1, 2018)

Some of our discovery friends told us the league sent out another blast email about having a 4th official at all the games this past weekend for the boys

So what or how did this 4th official work out?  Long Beach association was meantioned.


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## timbuck (Oct 1, 2018)

4th official?  Or security guard?


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## jpeter (Oct 1, 2018)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> It really depends on each age group.  For example in rhe 2003 age group, only 6 of the top 30 teams ranked in youthsoccer.com come from SCDSL.  I think it's just 1 of the top 10 as well.
> 
> In this group CSL is by far the better league.  Flight 2 is equivalent to Silver and flight 1 Europa is about a Silver Elite.


What is this youth soccer.com site your referring to?  Says it's not reachable.  

Season is just a few weeks old and there is a mash of new or reconstructed teams so I'm not sure how you can rank teams just yet?


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## focomoso (Oct 1, 2018)

jpeter said:


> What is this youth soccer.com site your referring to?  Says it's not reachable.
> 
> Season is just a few weeks old and there is a mash of new or reconstructed teams so I'm not sure how you can rank teams just yet?


https://youthsoccerrankings.us/rankings/National/All/Both/


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## jpeter (Oct 1, 2018)

focomoso said:


> https://youthsoccerrankings.us/rankings/National/All/Both/


Ok I looked for the age 2003 mentioned, 4 out of the top 10 teams have basically similar  team names so I don't know what's what?

Guadalajara valley junior 25 never heard of them.  Had one ecnl and one da listed but none of the others so hard to say this site is that accurate when everything is mixed up and it's based on last year's results from whatever?


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## GunninGopher (Oct 1, 2018)

jpeter said:


> Ok I looked for the age 2003 mentioned, 4 out of the top 10 teams have basically similar  team names so I don't know what's what?
> 
> Guadalajara valley junior 25 never heard of them.  Had one ecnl and one da listed but none of the others so hard to say this site is that accurate when everything is mixed up and it's based on last year's results from whatever?


The link was for national rankings. To be of more practical use for most of us, you have to filter it. The message you quoted referred to 2003 and since the message was about So Cal:

2003 Girls:
https://youthsoccerrankings.us/rankings/CAS/16/Girls/

2003 Boys:
https://youthsoccerrankings.us/rankings/CAS/16/Boys/

The ranking system isn't just based upon last year's results. If you click on a team you will see what goes into it. There are some issues. For instance, for G03, IE Surf has 2 entries in the girls and will also probably have a Legends name change problem. The site has a way to ID remedy those problems.


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## focomoso (Oct 1, 2018)

jpeter said:


> Ok I looked for the age 2003 mentioned, 4 out of the top 10 teams have basically similar  team names so I don't know what's what?
> 
> Guadalajara valley junior 25 never heard of them.  Had one ecnl and one da listed but none of the others so hard to say this site is that accurate when everything is mixed up and it's based on last year's results from whatever?


The results are updated weekly, but only with specifically sanctioned games. But DA teams don't do well in those rankings because there's so little interaction between DA and non DA teams. You pretty have to consider the DA separately.


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 1, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> Right now in CSL Premier there are maybe top 2-3 true Premier teams and the rest would be Silver Elite at best before SCDSL was formed.


Premier today definitely not the Premier of a few years ago.
Some of the scores this year are really bad, no competition for the top teams.


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## jpeter (Oct 1, 2018)

focomoso said:


> The results are updated weekly, but only with specifically sanctioned games. But DA teams don't do well in those rankings because there's so little interaction between DA and non DA teams. You pretty have to consider the DA separately.


Weekly for what?

The one ecnl team had updates for this season but the CSl & DSL teams don't have anything from this season.  

Galaxy is #33 or something and hasn't had any updates since 2017.

Unless someone cleans up the data and has consistent regular  updates from all hard to take these rankings seriously.


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## Banana Hammock (Oct 1, 2018)

jpeter said:


> Some of our discovery friends told us the league sent out another blast email about having a 4th official at all the games this past weekend for the boys
> 
> So what or how did this 4th official work out?  Long Beach association was meantioned.


There were four refers at the Discovery games on Sunday. The fourth ref sat a midfield during the game, taking notes.  I noticed that they rotated the position of one game to the next.


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## jpeter (Oct 1, 2018)

GunninGopher said:


> The link was for national rankings. To be of more practical use for most of us, you have to filter it. The message you quoted referred to 2003 and since the message was about So Cal:
> 
> 2003 Girls:
> https://youthsoccerrankings.us/rankings/CAS/16/Girls/
> ...


Yup used the link and again same results 5 out of 10 top teams in boys are same LA... So obviously they don't remedy or track correctly.   

#6 team says Guadalajara valley fc but they are a *bronze 2003* team in CSL that's 6-0. 

#7 team no updates since may.

Spotting data and updates, from some leagues but not others: nothing from DSL, DA, and others.     There have data from CRL and CSL so of course those teams looks better but otherwise not all that usefull.


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## GunninGopher (Oct 1, 2018)

jpeter said:


> Yup used the link and again same results 5 out of 10 top teams in boys are same LA... So obviously they don't remedy or track correctly.
> 
> #6 team says Guadalajara valley fc but they are a *bronze 2003* team in CSL that's 6-0.
> 
> ...


There are some issues with it, no doubt. It is up to the teams to clean up the mess. It starts with managers and registrars using consistent team names.


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## Runuts (Oct 1, 2018)

GunninGopher said:


> There are some issues with it, no doubt. It is up to the teams to clean up the mess. It starts with managers and registrars using consistent team names.


Boca Jr LA,  LA United FA Boca, LA United FA Reserves , LA United Pre Academy . All the same team.


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## forsomuch (Oct 1, 2018)

Another idea would be to report yellow cards for every game on every player. A few years ago SCDSL stopped reporting cautions and only report red cards. Player and team  penalties for accumulation would probably stop some the problems them have.


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## jpeter (Oct 1, 2018)

GunninGopher said:


> There are some issues with it, no doubt. It is up to the teams to clean up the mess. It starts with managers and registrars using consistent team names.


Yeah that may be true but there is a big flaw in how they do rankings when a bronze CSL team is ranked #6 due to beating up the easiest comp around for 6 games, just saying.

That and only taking or loading rankings from certain leagues games and ignoring others does not make for a good comparsion or realistic rankings Imo.  Obviously most of these are hostical rankings cumulative so that is skewed also for new teams like the above example or those that play more or in the events that are tracked regularly (CRl, CSL, Nat cup)


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## MA0812 (Oct 1, 2018)

Toch said:


> Seems like you want to justify some bad behavior. Hopefully the parent who had the ref in a headlock & the coach who harassed the young ref were arrested


Justify?? I don't think so! Everyone needs to take ownership of their actions and that also includes the league. If a parent or coach put hands on anyone that's not acceptable and is a battery charge. Agree with you 100% there. However, if the league isn't ensuring they have the right skill set managing the game, that lands in their hands hence mutual ownership. Control what's yours to control. Neither side is immune. That email was very emotionally one sided. This wasn't an isolated incident to the game your post references. In the game I saw the ref and ar actually stepped as far away as they could from 14 year old girls getting into a hair pulling scuffle and did nothing. Not a word said as it was happening. League officials had to run onto the field the get in the middle of it. It escalated to that point by taking zero action.  Justifying....... Yea I don't think so. 

There is should definitely be _*mutual ownership*_ for those scenarios described. *Parents, coaches, and players all have a code of conduct they need to adhere to and that behavior cant be condoned* but leagues have to also take ownership of their product which includes venues, refs, etc. *No excuse for that stuff* but the leagues have to do a better job at grading/rating refs if that's one of the drivers in the email. There is zero recourse for those who invest thousands into the product. Once a kid gets hurt due to a foul or from an altercation its too late to say we are dealing with the refs. Hopefully that level setting isn't just directed to those on one side of that equation but a reflection in the mirror of how to improve the product for all involved. Police yourself before you attempt to police others. _*Parents be the example!*_


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## GunninGopher (Oct 1, 2018)

The site loads just about everything


jpeter said:


> Yeah that may be true but there is a big flaw in how they do rankings when a bronze CSL team is ranked #6 due to beating up the easiest comp around for 6 games, just saying.
> 
> That and only taking or loading rankings from certain leagues games and ignoring others does not make for a good comparsion or realistic rankings Imo.  Obviously most of these are hostical rankings cumulative so that is skewed also for new teams like the above example or those that play more or in the events that are tracked regularly (CRl, CSL, Nat cup)


As to the team in question, with only 6 games to work with, you can expect a teams rankings to be inaccurate.The main problem in that instance only 2 of their listed opponents have any history out of league this year, and it is likely one or both of them is mis-assigned. If you care about that particular division, do the work to get the teams straightened out. I definitely agree there is a problem there.  As you correctly point out, a B03 State Cup Governor's/CSL Bronze team shouldn't be ranked that high.

While I can't speak for DA and other leagues, the site does bring in most league management systems that a vast majority of the teams play in. Personally, I'm not interested in seeing what some system or algorithm has my kid's team ranked. I just like that it is a convenient way to have an initial impression of an upcoming opponent and is a aggregation of who they've played, where they played and how they did, which is important. The ranking does provide a way to gauge the team's progress from a 10,000' foot level, but a team's quality comes down to who you play, how you play them, and where you finish in major competitions.

I'm not saying the site is perfect, but it is the best thing available and, while it sounds like it is new to you, it has been around for a while. Chris took the site down a year ago and there was a major uproar and groundswell movement to bring it back. Please work to be a part of the solution to the problems that you are concerned with.


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## RedCard (Oct 1, 2018)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> It really depends on each age group.  For example in rhe 2003 age group, only 6 of the top 30 teams ranked in youthsoccer.com come from SCDSL.  I think it's just 1 of the top 10 as well.
> 
> In this group CSL is by far the better league.  Flight 2 is equivalent to Silver and flight 1 Europa is about a Silver Elite.


In checking the Girls 05, looks like they removed all of the DA teams as of today. Not sure if they will put them back. SD Surf Academy was locked in at #1 for a long time (as they should be) but now that team is gone and Slammers LAFC ECNL is on top. But I know the last entry for Surf was the Surf Cup which was in July or August. I know the rankings are just for talk but why remove all DA teams?? Did this happen in the other age groups also??


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## futboldad1 (Oct 1, 2018)

RedCard said:


> In checking the Girls 05, looks like they removed all of the DA teams as of today. Not sure if they will put them back. SD Surf Academy was locked in at #1 for a long time (as they should be) but now that team is gone and Slammers LAFC ECNL is on top. But I know the last entry for Surf was the Surf Cup which was in July or August. I know the rankings are just for talk but why remove all DA teams?? Did this happen in the other age groups also??


That's very odd. Surf was my older DDs old team and it was cool to be able to look in on their scores w/o bothering other parents with text messages. Beach DA and Eagles DA remain but you're right about Surf, Albion, Galaxy and others. Hopefully just a glitch and they'll be back as that site had the most accurate rankings by far.....but wouldn't be surprised if US Soccer sent a threatening email as they don't like their golden geese to be ranked below the riffraff!


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## RedCard (Oct 1, 2018)

futboldad1 said:


> That's very odd. Surf was my older DDs old team and it was cool to be able to look in on their scores w/o bothering other parents with text messages. Beach DA and Eagles DA remain but you're right about Surf, Albion, Galaxy and others. Hopefully just a glitch and they'll be back as that site had the most accurate rankings by far.....but wouldn't be surprised if US Soccer sent a threatening email as they don't like their golden geese to be ranked below the riffraff!


Beach and Eagles were the only two without the “DA”  or “Developmental Academy” attached to their name so whoever looks at this probably thought they were a SCDSL or CSL team.


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## jpeter (Oct 1, 2018)

GunninGopher said:


> The site loads just about everything
> 
> 
> As to the team in question, with only 6 games to work with, you can expect a teams rankings to be inaccurate.The main problem in that instance only 2 of their listed opponents have any history out of league this year, and it is likely one or both of them is mis-assigned. If you care about that particular division, do the work to get the teams straightened out. I definitely agree there is a problem there.  As you correctly point out, a B03 State Cup Governor's/CSL Bronze team shouldn't be ranked that high.
> ...


Plays on combined age group team so calendar year rankings are not something that we normally look at. 

Missing Scdsl, Ussda ~ 2017, and other league games, plus  tournaments not gotsoccer indicates this has limited scope which is fine at least people like it for what it is.

Guess we're going have to see what the new rankings  top drawer soccer comes up with for the combined age groups, da, and others.


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## GunninGopher (Oct 1, 2018)

jpeter said:


> Plays on combined age group team so calendar year rankings are not something that we normally look at.
> 
> Missing Scdsl, Ussda ~ 2017, and other league games, plus  tournaments not gotsoccer indicates this has limited scope which is fine at least people like it for what it is.
> 
> Guess we're going have to see what the new rankings  top drawer soccer comes up with for the combined age groups, da, and others.


Those will be added later. 2017 is accounted for. He has to custom import leagues that use weird systems. SCDSL's is the worst.


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## Surfref (Oct 2, 2018)

MA0812 said:


> .........In the game I saw the ref and ar actually stepped as far away as they could from 14 year old girls getting into a hair pulling scuffle and did nothing. Not a word said as it was happening. League officials had to run onto the field the get in the middle of it. It escalated to that point by taking zero action........


I am only going to reply to a small portion of your post.  By moving/stepping away from the fight/altercation, the referees did exactly what is taught to all referees by US Soccer and the Cal South instructors.  Referees should never lay hands on a youth player and never get in the middle of a fight.  There have been several referees over the past couple years that have been seriously injured, including one traumatic brain injury, because they attempted to get between players fighting and got hit.  My job as a referee is to initially blow the whistle really loud a couple times, back away so I have a good view of the entire scene, and start taking notes.  The AR's will also start taking notes. 99 percent of the time that really loud whistle blown a couple times will either bring the fighting players to their senses or cause teammates to jump in and pull the players apart.  If more players jump into the fight and it is getting out of control, then the coaches can come on and try to break it up.  If four of more players get into a fight then I will issue the Red cards and may abandon the game.  I have never had more than two players get into a fight and it was always broken up quickly by teammates after I blew the whistle a couple times.  I talk to my AR's, Red cards were issued, and coaches and captains warned to control their players.

I am not sure why league (SCDSL) officials would risk the liability to run onto the field and touch youth players.  Let the coaches police their players.


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## jpeter (Oct 2, 2018)

Banana Hammock said:


> There were four refers at the Discovery games on Sunday. The fourth ref sat a midfield during the game, taking notes.  I noticed that they rotated the position of one game to the next.


Ah so the 4th ref was just a note taker and didn't help out the others? such as supervising the subings? Or advising the the crew on decisions where they might have seem something that was missed?

Kind of sounds like they where more of Observers than real 4th assistant.


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## Banana Hammock (Oct 3, 2018)

jpeter said:


> Ah so the 4th ref was just a note taker and didn't help out the others? such as supervising the subings? Or advising the the crew on decisions where they might have seem something that was missed?
> 
> Kind of sounds like they where more of Observers than real 4th assistant.


The fourth ref sat right between the two teams.  I didn't see him have interaction during the game but I did see them discussing his notes with the center ref after the game at their tent.


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## Threeyardsback (Oct 3, 2018)

RedCard said:


> In checking the Girls 05, looks like they removed all of the DA teams as of today. Not sure if they will put them back. SD Surf Academy was locked in at #1 for a long time (as they should be) but now that team is gone and Slammers LAFC ECNL is on top. But I know the last entry for Surf was the Surf Cup which was in July or August. I know the rankings are just for talk but why remove all DA teams?? Did this happen in the other age groups also??


Looks like the DA teams are back now


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## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 3, 2018)

Youthsocceranking is not perfect but it's definitely good enough.   You beat a bad team by 1 goal, you move down in rankings, you lose to a top team by a goal and you move up a little.   
Given that it's free, let's not complain too much because they will shut it down and I will not know what to do since I check that site every week.  

My kids team is ranked in the 60's and they were in the 90's 2 years ago.  We moved up when we lost 2-1 to a top 20 ranked team and we moved down a lot when we won 2-1 against a team ranked in the 180's.  Makes sense to me.


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## futboldad1 (Oct 4, 2018)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Youthsocceranking is not perfect but it's definitely good enough.   You beat a bad team by 1 goal, you move down in rankings, you lose to a top team by a goal and you move up a little.
> Given that it's free, let's not complain too much because they will shut it down and I will not know what to do since I check that site every week.
> 
> My kids team is ranked in the 60's and they were in the 90's 2 years ago.  We moved up when we lost 2-1 to a top 20 ranked team and we moved down a lot when we won 2-1 against a team ranked in the 180's.  Makes sense to me.


Totally agree. Most of those complaining are doing so because their DDs team is not ranked as high as they think should be, you know because YRS is based on comprehensive results over multiple seasons rather than pure parental emotion.


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## focomoso (Oct 4, 2018)

futboldad1 said:


> Totally agree. Most of those complaining are doing so because their DDs team is not ranked as high as they think should be, you know because YRS is based on comprehensive results over multiple seasons rather than pure parental emotion.


Now _that_ would be interesting. You give teams extra points for the number of times parents check their ranking. And you could have a sideline mic to measure how hard the parents cheer.


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Oct 4, 2018)

Banana Hammock said:


> The fourth ref sat right between the two teams.  I didn't see him have interaction during the game but I did see them discussing his notes with the center ref after the game at their tent.


As a 4th, I keep track of all the fouls. I tell the ref at half time how many fouls he called for each team, and if 1 person committed more than one foul. I also record the nature of the foul: push, pull, trip, etc. Most refs find this to be extremely useful information at halftime.

4th officials can also make foul calls, provided that the center makes eye contact with the 4th at regular intervals. Comms help involve the 4th more. I have seen a 4th single handedly issue a red card (without comms.) after he told the center that a player deliberately stepped on a player on the ground after the victim crossed a long ball and fell down. The center was 40 yards away keeping up with play on the other side of the field, AR1 was busy judging offside, and AR2 was 60 yards away on the other side. Only the 4th could have ever made that call.

My personal favorite use of the 4th is when I am center and the coach is getting a little out of control over a call. I will straight up run past him and ignore the coach and then explain my call and reasoning to the 4th official. Then I run back to start play without ever acknowledging the coach and have him debate it out with the 4th.


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## espola (Oct 5, 2018)

Definitelynotanotherref said:


> As a 4th, I keep track of all the fouls. I tell the ref at half time how many fouls he called for each team, and if 1 person committed more than one foul. I also record the nature of the foul: push, pull, trip, etc. Most refs find this to be extremely useful information at halftime.
> 
> 4th officials can also make foul calls, provided that the center makes eye contact with the 4th at regular intervals. Comms help involve the 4th more. I have seen a 4th single handedly issue a red card (without comms.) after he told the center that a player deliberately stepped on a player on the ground after the victim crossed a long ball and fell down. The center was 40 yards away keeping up with play on the other side of the field, AR1 was busy judging offside, and AR2 was 60 yards away on the other side. Only the 4th could have ever made that call.
> 
> My personal favorite use of the 4th is when I am center and the coach is getting a little out of control over a call. I will straight up run past him and ignore the coach and then explain my call and reasoning to the 4th official. Then I run back to start play without ever acknowledging the coach and have him debate it out with the 4th.


Deliberately?


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