# Comparing DA Boys' Options - ECNL vs CSL Premier vs CRL vs SCDSL Flight 1 Champions vs SCDSL Discovery



## Kante (Apr 12, 2020)

How would folks' evaluate/rank these leagues vs one another? What's most competitive and what's best path to college?  Are their other options not mentioned?

Asking for a friend.


----------



## BIGD (Apr 12, 2020)

Whichever one has the least amount travel and similar level of competition.


----------



## Dargle (Apr 12, 2020)

Looking at the perceived ranking pre-Coronavirus won't be all that helpful because (1) it's hard to tell what youth soccer will look like in terms of travel and tournaments for awhile, both due to restrictions and concerns due to the virus and because of the potential shakeout to clubs and player participation rates as a result of the economic slowdown and job loss , and (2) which platform reigns supreme will likely be heavily influenced by where DA clubs and players migrate to if DA is no more, which could include a new local, regional, or national league that doesn't currently exist.   Moreover, it may not make sense to assume college soccer will be unaffected either. Best case, traveling for scouting could be limited for a short period of time, which limits the value of showcases this coming year at a minimum. Worst case, colleges lose football/basketball revenue and start cutting some of the non-revenue sports like soccer altogether (DIII schools would likely come out ahead in this scenario, since they don't have revenue sports or athletic scholarships and sports helps them to attract tuition-paying students).

Having said all of that, you can make some assessments.  The competitiveness of any of the existing leagues and its attractiveness to colleges will depend upon its ability to concentrate talent in one space.  CSL Gold/Premier and SCDSL Championship/Discovery are each structurally unable to do this by virtue of the existence of the other.  The fact that they are geographically separated for the most part reinforces the fact that if DA kids just go back to their area clubs, they will effectively divide up the talent between each league, rather than concentrate them in one. Even if DA kids stay with their DA clubs, but instead become the top team in that club's regular league, the talent will necessarily be divided.  TFA, FC Golden State, and LA Surf, for instance, would be CSL Gold/Premier, while Pateadores, Strikers, and Real Socal would be SCDSL Championship/Discovery.

That might be fine, though, if the best clubs from both leagues enter the same tournaments or do California Regional League (or NPL).  Problem is that this assumes tournaments are even possible this year, at least through the end of 2020.  CRL competition is basically a series of tournament-like weekends too, with one in July, two in August, and a few in the winter. Moreover, the teams that automatically qualified for CRL are already set and they are likely a random selection of teams given the possibility of players dropping out, former DA players being all over, and the absence of a play-in tournament (scheduled for later this month, but which obviously can't played) that would provide enough teams to make CRL work.  Some of the teams that qualified for instance, are really just good teams, rather than good clubs, so there's no assurance they have a decent team in another age group.  So, at least for next year, CRL won't be much of an attraction.

Boys ECNL has the most potential.  Its teams can play in the top tournaments that would attract teams from both leagues and it has showcases on top of it that already attract some college scouts (particularly on the girls side).  This year, however, it's not clear national showcases are going to be possible from a health or financial perspective.  More importantly, absent a coordinated move of DA clubs/teams/players to Boys ECNL, that platform in Southern California was very underwhelming last year.  Many of the Boys ECNL teams did not impress in tournaments or scrimmages last year, often losing to middling CSL Gold or SCDSL Flight 1 teams.  Moreover, a league that requires travel to Vegas and Arizona for 1-2 games and is basically built on a high fee/high expense business model, may be problematic for the immediate future.

Both the CSL/SCDSL or ECNL options theoretically have pathways for individual players to get local, regional, and national attention (ODP through USYSA in the former or Id2 through US Club in the latter), but, once again, the existence of the other means that neither will be able to provide the concentration of talent that would be necessary to elevate one league over the other.

Bottom line is that if you can't get into an MLS Academy (and MLS is going to have difficulties if they can't put on a season this year), no option is likely to be clearly better than another unless the DA clubs/players move in a coordinated fashion to something that becomes the new DA.


----------



## galaxydad (Apr 12, 2020)

Dargle said:


> Looking at the perceived ranking pre-Coronavirus won't be all that helpful because (1) it's hard to tell what youth soccer will look like in terms of travel and tournaments for awhile, both due to restrictions and concerns due to the virus and because of the potential shakeout to clubs and player participation rates as a result of the economic slowdown and job loss , and (2) which platform reigns supreme will likely be heavily influenced by where DA clubs and players migrate to if DA is no more, which could include a new local, regional, or national league that doesn't currently exist.   Moreover, it may not make sense to assume college soccer will be unaffected either. Best case, traveling for scouting could be limited for a short period of time, which limits the value of showcases this coming year at a minimum. Worst case, colleges lose football/basketball revenue and start cutting some of the non-revenue sports like soccer altogether (DIII schools would likely come out ahead in this scenario, since they don't have revenue sports or athletic scholarships and sports helps them to attract tuition-paying students).
> 
> Having said all of that, you can make some assessments.  The competitiveness of any of the existing leagues and its attractiveness to colleges will depend upon its ability to concentrate talent in one space.  CSL Gold/Premier and SCDSL Championship/Discovery are each structurally unable to do this by virtue of the existence of the other.  The fact that they are geographically separated for the most part reinforces the fact that if DA kids just go back to their area clubs, they will effectively divide up the talent between each league, rather than concentrate them in one. Even if DA kids stay with their DA clubs, but instead become the top team in that club's regular league, the talent will necessarily be divided.  TFA, FC Golden State, and LA Surf, for instance, would be CSL Gold/Premier, while Pateadores, Strikers, and Real Socal would be SCDSL Championship/Discovery.
> 
> ...


Great points but it’s highly unlikely that DA players move together. Many DA players and families have already been in contact with coaches from all the leagues you indicated.

I think it depends on what your goal is after HS. If it’s college exposure ECNL is the way to go. Your money point is solid but according to several college coaches I’ve spoken to they can’t afford to recruit a player that cannot pay for a majority of the college tuition. They are very limited on their ability to lower the cost of tuition and that will be even more problematic as the shutdown will impact athletic departments bottom lines.

if it’s to have fun and play against quality competition I’d go to the closest quality club and play in their top tier circuit. Lots if discounts for low income players. 

I do have one point that has really hurt the boys side. It’s middle or high income players still asking to play for a discount or even free. it’s very problematic on the boys side. Families that don’t even want to drop a penny, fund raise anything to support the team. Even if your low income take part in fund raising etc. it’s not cheap to pay for fields, coaching etc. Pay if you can and support either way to the best of your ability.


----------



## jpeter (Apr 12, 2020)

CRL is a supplemental league so not really comparable.

As far as college coaches you would likely get better exposure attending the bigger tournaments: Surf, Dallas, Jefferson, Vegas, Man City, than playing CRL, CSL, DSL.

ECNL has some showcase but the boys turnouts (20 odd coaches) has been way below what you see in some of those tournaments where 70-80 show up so no real advantage in any of those leagues that I've seen or heard about up until now.

USL doesn't really have any plans for college showcases but they will be offering the A league for youth and USL 2 with a bridge to keep playing and getting promoted to USL and MLS.   All the other leagues are pretty much dead ends and the play & participation drops off by the time kids are seniors in high school.

Usclub has there NPL's (West, SoCal, and Southwest) if DA doesn't have a fall league most likely they will try to pick up some of the slack. Less travel & cheaper than ECNL so that should be a option for some.


----------



## Kante (Apr 12, 2020)

Dargle said:


> Looking at the perceived ranking pre-Coronavirus won't be all that helpful because (1) it's hard to tell what youth soccer will look like in terms of travel and tournaments for awhile, both due to restrictions and concerns due to the virus and because of the potential shakeout to clubs and player participation rates as a result of the economic slowdown and job loss , and (2) which platform reigns supreme will likely be heavily influenced by where DA clubs and players migrate to if DA is no more, which could include a new local, regional, or national league that doesn't currently exist.   Moreover, it may not make sense to assume college soccer will be unaffected either. Best case, traveling for scouting could be limited for a short period of time, which limits the value of showcases this coming year at a minimum. Worst case, colleges lose football/basketball revenue and start cutting some of the non-revenue sports like soccer altogether (DIII schools would likely come out ahead in this scenario, since they don't have revenue sports or athletic scholarships and sports helps them to attract tuition-paying students).
> 
> Having said all of that, you can make some assessments.  The competitiveness of any of the existing leagues and its attractiveness to colleges will depend upon its ability to concentrate talent in one space.  CSL Gold/Premier and SCDSL Championship/Discovery are each structurally unable to do this by virtue of the existence of the other.  The fact that they are geographically separated for the most part reinforces the fact that if DA kids just go back to their area clubs, they will effectively divide up the talent between each league, rather than concentrate them in one. Even if DA kids stay with their DA clubs, but instead become the top team in that club's regular league, the talent will necessarily be divided.  TFA, FC Golden State, and LA Surf, for instance, would be CSL Gold/Premier, while Pateadores, Strikers, and Real Socal would be SCDSL Championship/Discovery.
> 
> ...


really good input. thx! So, if you were a men's college coach, what would be your next steps for recruiting in 2020-21? Budget to attend the tournaments you mention? Anything else?


----------



## Kante (Apr 12, 2020)

jpeter said:


> CRL is a supplemental league so not really comparable.
> 
> As far as college coaches you would likely get better exposure attending the bigger tournaments: Surf, Dallas, Jefferson, Vegas, Man City, than playing CRL, CSL, DSL.
> 
> ...


Thx. So, if you were a men's college coach, what would be your next steps for recruiting in 2020-21? Budget to attend the tournaments you mention? Anything else?


----------



## BIGD (Apr 12, 2020)

Dargle said:


> no option is likely to be clearly better than another


Right so like I said, the least amount of travel and similar level of competition, as best as can be determined given the changes you anticipate.

If you live in Socal and your kid is worthy of a scholarship to a D1 school or pro pathway, they will be found.  League wasn't and still isn't really that big of a factor.


----------



## Dargle (Apr 12, 2020)

Kante said:


> really good input. thx! So, if you were a men's college coach, what would be your next steps for recruiting in 2020-21? Budget to attend the tournaments you mention? Anything else?


2020-21 is going to be an odd year given the uncertainty over when current restrictions will be relaxed and whether there will be a resurgence of cases later in the year.  At most, I expect coaches will attend the local and regional tournaments within driving distance if they happen, but I don't think many coaches are booking flights for Surf Cup, Man City Cup (moved to Labor Day) etc.   This period will just further push scouting towards video. One of the benefits of DA is the requirement to video all games, so a coach can watch the entire thing rather than just carefully selected highlights.  That's going to be more important for all of the top divisions of leagues if there is a fall season.


----------



## justneededaname (Apr 12, 2020)

San Diego should be particularly interesting as there is only one Boys ECNL club for the county. 

Today is probably a very happy Easter for the coaches at Sharks as their phones are likely ringing off the hook with parents from Albion, Surf, and City looking to hire the coach to do a socially distanced private lesson for their son in their backyard. Their U14 and U15 coaches are probably especially eager to take those calls.

Some outcomes could be

1. Surf gets invited to play in the MLS league to give the western MLS clubs one more team to play. Surf gets the top talent in San Diego. I don't imagine a scenario where this isn't the case, so I won't address other options below concerning Surf.

2. ECNL grants acceptance to SDSC, Albion, and City. Sharks freak out!

3. ECNL grants the boys to Rebels who already have girls ECNL and are geographically distant from Sharks, so the Sharks club doesn't freak out. Sharks parents still freak out as their roster fills with kids from SDSC and City. Some Albion kids head north, some south depending on where their parents live.

With 2 and 3 Albion and City try to make a go of NPL. Most of their top players leave to Surf (which they would have anyway if the DA kept going), Sharks and Rebels.

No matter how it shakes out, I predict the winners are Surf and Rebels. It is basically neutral for SDSC and Sharks. The losers are City and Albion. Although City might be able to do better if they can properly market their connection to RSL and their "pathway" to an MLS academy.


----------



## surf&donuts (Apr 12, 2020)

I just cannot believe US Soccer is doing this to the 03’s. The covid has already really messed with college recruiting- now to cut the DA program?????  This is just so messed up!!!!


----------



## pokergod (Apr 12, 2020)

surf&donuts said:


> I just cannot believe US Soccer is doing this to the 03’s. The covid has already really messed with college recruiting- now to cut the DA program?????  This is just so messed up!!!!


The worst case scenario is if college football does not take place come fall.  That is the $$$$ maker for all other sports (men's basketball being a distant second).  The athletic budgets at schools will be decimated without football.  The amount of scholarships allocated to non revenue producing sports, which is already small, will shrink even further. The trickle down will effect recruiting budges, travel budget, etc.


----------



## surf&donuts (Apr 12, 2020)

What is happening with the USL league? Is it realistic that they will have their own league by fall?


----------



## jpeter (Apr 12, 2020)

justneededaname said:


> San Diego should be particularly interesting as there is only one Boys ECNL club for the county.
> 
> Today is probably a very happy Easter for the coaches at Sharks as their phones are likely ringing off the hook with parents from Albion, Surf, and City looking to hire the coach to do a socially distanced private lesson for their son in their backyard. Their U14 and U15 coaches are probably especially eager to take those calls.
> 
> ...


None of the above



surf&donuts said:


> What is happening with the USL league? Is it realistic that they will have their own league by fall?


Already had their west & East regionals and they had planned to start the A league in fall.  League 2, 1, and championship already established.

Yes USL A league in the fall, only question is will they expand to more than one team per club now?  originally plan was one team of the best u15-18 per club not single age group teams.


----------



## YaYaTorres (Apr 13, 2020)

justneededaname said:


> San Diego should be particularly interesting as there is only one Boys ECNL club for the county.
> 
> Today is probably a very happy Easter for the coaches at Sharks as their phones are likely ringing off the hook with parents from Albion, Surf, and City looking to hire the coach to do a socially distanced private lesson for their son in their backyard. Their U14 and U15 coaches are probably especially eager to take those calls.
> 
> ...


Can you explain more about #1 above? So, MLS soccer cuts ties with all DA teams except Surf?? 
Also, I would think all DA teams down there suffer.


----------



## galaxydad (Apr 13, 2020)

jpeter said:


> CRL is a supplemental league so not really comparable.
> 
> As far as college coaches you would likely get better exposure attending the bigger tournaments: Surf, Dallas, Jefferson, Vegas, Man City, than playing CRL, CSL, DSL.
> 
> ...


Just for clarification 20/30 coaches were actively sitting and watching every single game not a sign up to attend number

having gone to college showcases in the past you have lots of coaches signed up and will get several to watch a portion of a game but not like I’ve seen at the ECNL events


----------

