# What coaches/clubs really incorporate GK into their practices?



## KeeperOfTheKeeper (Jan 23, 2018)

I’m noticing that there are numerous coaches / clubs that really don’t incorporate GK in their training sesessions. There doesn’t seem to be much being done to help GKs work w their defensive line, setup defensive plays, etc... Also, before the game, anyone helping GK’s warm up or is it always left to the parent?

are there clubs/coaches that really do what’s needed there? Would love to see/hear other’s observations and/recommendations...


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## PossessionSoccer (Jan 23, 2018)

I have heard this same complaint from a few GK parents of kids trying out.

My GK’s run the same session as the field players, generally speaking 1. Skills 2. Small Passing/collecting exercise 3. Large Attacking Pattern starting with the Gk from a built out goal kick or distribution with her hands 4. Positional Rondo including the GK 5. Play

If I substitute a shooting exercise, then the GK would be in the net but generally the GK’s are equally as involved as the field players.  In the style I teach, the ratio of touches in a scrimmage or game is 7:1, feet:hands so I like the GK’s to be very proficient with their feet.

For a 3rd session a week, our GK’s go to GK training to work the position specific technical work, hands, footwork, diving, etc.


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## KeeperOfTheKeeper (Jan 23, 2018)

PossessionSoccer said:


> I have heard this same complaint from a few GK parents of kids trying out.
> 
> My GK’s run the same session as the field players, generally speaking 1. Skills 2. Small Passing/collecting exercise 3. Large Attacking Pattern starting with the Gk from a built out goal kick or distribution with her hands 4. Positional Rondo including the GK 5. Play
> 
> ...


When do you work on setting up defensive plays? Set pieces from defense POV? Passbacks in high pressure situations? Distribution? Or are those the things GK need to pick up in GK training? I ask because what I see a lot in game play, is lack of cohesion. GK screams ‘keeper’ & defender still clears the ball inches away from kepper hands, etc. just curious how those skills are learned/taught to the whole defensive line...


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## PossessionSoccer (Jan 23, 2018)

Defending set pieces are different than your other questions to me.  I don’t spend a lot of time on that, certainly not with any regularity anyway.  The other questions, passbacks and distribution are a very frequent occurrence [every single practice]. Development with those 2 things comes in the attacking pattern(#3 in my original post) and in the positional rondo (#4). Then I want to see it executed in the play (#5).

Most of the time that I choreograph building out, I start with a retreating player which is the trigger for a CB or the GK to command the ball, then they start the build.  That initial ball can also be played back directly to the GK, so she can start the build with her distribution.

Let me know if that helps.


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## themailman (Jan 23, 2018)

This unfortunately happens in D1 soccer as well. From my experience, the keeper coach was usually isolated with the keeper during trainings.


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## JoeBieber (Jan 23, 2018)

KeeperOfTheKeeper said:


> I’m noticing that there are numerous coaches / clubs that really don’t incorporate GK in their training sesessions. There doesn’t seem to be much being done to help GKs work w their defensive line, setup defensive plays, etc... Also, before the game, anyone helping GK’s warm up or is it always left to the parent?
> 
> are there clubs/coaches that really do what’s needed there? Would love to see/hear other’s observations and/recommendations...


My oldest was a keeper, and it's kind of a balancing act. Too much scrimmaging and there's a lot of standing around. Too much 1 on 1 instruction and you're missing actual game situations. We also wanted to be able to play with your feet, so the keeper should be actually playing on the field too sometimes to develop confidence.


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## Grace T. (Jan 23, 2018)

I've written this before.  For my E license, the instructors didn't even hand out a goalkeeper test (even though it was one of the options on their assignment sheet) and none of the exams incorporated the goalkeeper into the defensive exams (I was all disappointed, having brought my GK gloves).  And on my own test which dealt with the cross, I got yelled at for giving the goalkeeper some coaching points (follow the cross in...yell "no shot"...angle towards the shooter).  For the D, it's a very small part of the exam.  And last I heard you can't even get the goalkeeper license until you complete your B.

Having reffed on the youngers side, I can tell you I've seen very few clubs know what to do with the goalkeepers other than as shotstoppers and most seem afraid to let them play with their feet on the backpass, particularly if the squad is a mid to low level talent in the particular league.  Lots of coaches (perhaps due to the lack of continuing education) seem to be teaching old methods of goalkeeping that pre-date the age of Neuer, such as bending your knee down to get a ground pass instead of forward diving on it.  Lot of coaches just want to make it the goalkeeper coach's problem.

That's why I think GK camps should be part of every education.  I'm not a fan of the LA Galaxy camp in Carson for higher level field players, but I really like their goalkeeper camp which also gave my son the chance to play with fieldplayers....their focus was on reading the game and at the last one my son came away with a nice K-Stop technique (which the Galaxy, II, and Academy teams really favor).   Ian Feuer's GK camp is great because he recreates a lot of in game situations with each station dealing with a particular in game situation.  I also hear good things about the One Residential GK camp in the summer, though from what I've heard it's more technically oriented.


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## Woobie06 (Jan 23, 2018)

Couple of thoughts, comments...

My DD is a keeper and she attends a private, and double club training's weekly (her age group and older age group on the same day) so two trainings outside the core team.  At team practice she works the session with the field players which is important and those skills are required for this position now...our coaches (the old one and the new one) both have incorporated keeper play in the session, pass backs, distribution, set-pieces, etc., that was a discussion point about moving to the club, and when we had our meeting with the new coach...For the specialty positions in any sport, unless you make it a requirement/condition to be there, there is a lot of work you need to do and invest on your own...1 to 2 keepers per team 15-17 field players...its numbers...plus most coaches don't know what to do with keepers....just shots?????  It is all about the coach as so many have stated before and will after...the right fit, and being on the same page....one last note, as your keeper is developing find the right team where they will get work in games....I can't tell you how many "top" teams we have played who have weak keepers....they just don't get work during games and lack situational and game experience/awareness...just my two cents.


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## Woobie06 (Jan 23, 2018)

Also, regarding warm-ups....for Warm-up's she has a routine she can instruct anybody to work her through...player, coach, parent, or bystander...it's on the player, not the parent.


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## Keepermom2 (Jan 24, 2018)

PossessionSoccer said:


> Defending set pieces are different than your other questions to me.  I don’t spend a lot of time on that, certainly not with any regularity anyway.  The other questions, passbacks and distribution are a very frequent occurrence [every single practice]. Development with those 2 things comes in the attacking pattern(#3 in my original post) and in the positional rondo (#4). Then I want to see it executed in the play (#5).
> 
> Most of the time that I choreograph building out, I start with a retreating player which is the trigger for a CB or the GK to command the ball, then they start the build.  That initial ball can also be played back directly to the GK, so she can start the build with her distribution.
> 
> Let me know if that helps.


First off...where do you coach and for what age?  All of what you said is what my daughter is missing.  I have tried to get her to do some of what you said on her own but she said she doesn't want to do it on game day because she hasn't practiced it.  There has been one club that we tried out for that expects that but unfortunately she is not confident in doing it and it shows.  Seems logical to teach that but at the younger lower flight levels it seems they just want a body in the goal.


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## PossessionSoccer (Jan 24, 2018)

Keepermom2 said:


> First off...where do you coach and for what age?  All of what you said is what my daughter is missing.  I have tried to get her to do some of what you said on her own but she said she doesn't want to do it on game day because she hasn't practiced it.  There has been one club that we tried out for that expects that but unfortunately she is not confident in doing it and it shows.  Seems logical to teach that but at the younger lower flight levels it seems they just want a body in the goal.


I sent you a Conversation.

Generally speaking, we as coaches need to train to develop, play the way we train (not just to win), facilitate repetition, and be comfortable with mistakes in the back that could cost wins. This all needs to done at younger ages with all levels of play if it has a chance to be executed well at older ages and higher levels.


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## GKMomma (Jan 24, 2018)

My daughter is an older GK.  She has played for a different clubs, higher level, SCDSL Champions bracket, etc. and I can tell you that usually practice includes doing the same thing as field players.  Very rarely does she get any specialized training.  Most clubs say that they offer goalkeeper training, but make sure you check out that training. Are they really teaching them anything?  Or are they just kicking a ball at them? My husband and You tube have been my daughters GK coach since she started playing.  My daughter puts in her own hard work and her own time to make sure that she stays on top of her game.  That is a must.
I have recently found a GK trainer for her that actually knows about goalkeeping.  He is worth the hour and a half drive ( I live far away from everything) I have to take to get her there, and he pushes her to make her a better player.  It sucks that we have to pay extra for a specialized trainer, but it's a specialized position, and it's worth every single penny to me if it makes her smile and helps her improve.  Good luck!


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## KeeperOfTheKeeper (Jan 24, 2018)

GKMomma said:


> My daughter is an older GK.  She has played for a different clubs, higher level, SCDSL Champions bracket, etc. and I can tell you that usually practice includes doing the same thing as field players.  Very rarely does she get any specialized training.  Most clubs say that they offer goalkeeper training, but make sure you check out that training. Are they really teaching them anything?  Or are they just kicking a ball at them? My husband and You tube have been my daughters GK coach since she started playing.  My daughter puts in her own hard work and her own time to make sure that she stays on top of her game.  That is a must.
> I have recently found a GK trainer for her that actually knows about goalkeeping.  He is worth the hour and a half drive ( I live far away from everything) I have to take to get her there, and he pushes her to make her a better player.  It sucks that we have to pay extra for a specialized trainer, but it's a specialized position, and it's worth every single penny to me if it makes her smile and helps her improve.  Good luck!


I’m not concerned with the specialized training. I’ve made peace with what we already spend on that. My question relates more to integrating this specialized training into the team. As I’ve said I see some truly fundamental mistakes that take place in the communication between defensive line & GK. The passbacks that bounce all over, or ball being cleared inches away from GK hands, or walls that are more interested in jumping up/down than listening to GK on where to move...


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## Dargle (Jan 24, 2018)

KeeperOfTheKeeper said:


> I’m not concerned with the specialized training. I’ve made peace with what we already spend on that. My question relates more to integrating this specialized training into the team. As I’ve said I see some truly fundamental mistakes that take place in the communication between defensive line & GK. The passbacks that bounce all over, or ball being cleared inches away from GK hands, or walls that are more interested in jumping up/down than listening to GK on where to move...


I don't see where you mentioned your GK's age.  Much of what you are describing is considered tactical training.  At the younger ages, there isn't a huge amount of tactical training at any position.  For a GK, they need to work on situational decisions, such as when to come out and when to stay back etc., but most of their work is still on the technical side on things like catching techniques, footwork, sliding etc.  Lots of coaches at the younger ages don't spend much time on set plays at all (whether from the offensive or defensive perspective in terms of a wall) even though a little bit of work on that might win them some games.  Coaches are much more focused on basic passing and movement, as well as technique.  Part of the theory is that tactics can come later once the players have the technique and part of the theory is that players aren't developmentally ready to deal with tactical instruction (and how to adjust those tactics on the fly when the other team poses different problems than when they went over it in practice).


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## KeeperOfTheKeeper (Jan 24, 2018)

Dargle said:


> I don't see where you mentioned your GK's age.  Much of what you are describing is considered tactical training.  At the younger ages, there isn't a huge amount of tactical training at any position.  For a GK, they need to work on situational decisions, such as when to come out and when to stay back etc., but most of their work is still on the technical side on things like catching techniques, footwork, sliding etc.  Lots of coaches at the younger ages don't spend much time on set plays at all (whether from the offensive or defensive perspective in terms of a wall) even though a little bit of work on that might win them some games.  Coaches are much more focused on basic passing and movement, as well as technique.  Part of the theory is that tactics can come later once the players have the technique and part of the theory is that players aren't developmentally ready to deal with tactical instruction (and how to adjust those tactics on the fly when the other team poses different problems than when they went over it in practice).


I guess this feeds directly into the mentality that “teams win games & goalies lose them”


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## espola (Jan 24, 2018)

Dargle said:


> I don't see where you mentioned your GK's age.  Much of what you are describing is considered tactical training.  At the younger ages, there isn't a huge amount of tactical training at any position.  For a GK, they need to work on situational decisions, such as when to come out and when to stay back etc., but most of their work is still on the technical side on things like catching techniques, footwork, sliding etc.  Lots of coaches at the younger ages don't spend much time on set plays at all (whether from the offensive or defensive perspective in terms of a wall) even though a little bit of work on that might win them some games.  Coaches are much more focused on basic passing and movement, as well as technique.  Part of the theory is that tactics can come later once the players have the technique and part of the theory is that players aren't developmentally ready to deal with tactical instruction (and how to adjust those tactics on the fly when the other team poses different problems than when they went over it in practice).


That would account for the horrid set play tactics I see on teams all the way up through D1 college.


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## Keepermom2 (Jan 24, 2018)

KeeperOfTheKeeper said:


> I’m not concerned with the specialized training. I’ve made peace with what we already spend on that. My question relates more to integrating this specialized training into the team. As I’ve said I see some truly fundamental mistakes that take place in the communication between defensive line & GK. The passbacks that bounce all over, or ball being cleared inches away from GK hands, or walls that are more interested in jumping up/down than listening to GK on where to move...


LOL...I too made peace just this year with the fact the specialized training is on me.  Unfortunately you have to rely on the coach to make your player a good GK playing the position on the field.  The better the Keeper does at this, the better the team will do so I don't understand why many coaches don't work on that at practice.


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## Mystery Train (Jan 25, 2018)

Every now and then you will find a head coach that played keeper themselves.  My daughter has had two, and they were the only ones I ever saw teach anything GK specific with regards to tactics and situational positioning during a team practice.  The whole thing about teaching mechanics now and tactics later is definitely a belief held by many old-school coaches, but I think that is a gross underestimation of what younger kids can handle and process.  Kids learn situational tactics at an early age playing Xbox and Playstation.  Plus, let's face it, defending a corner isn't rocket science...


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## 3JMommy (Jan 25, 2018)

I have an 03 GK and I agree the support/training that a GK gets in club soccer varies wildly. We live in South OC, and the clubs down here seem to all offer weekly group trainings specific to keepers where they review the tech aspects (diving, punching, punts and kicks etc.). How they are incorporated with their pown team practices depends more on coach. Have had some coaches, who are very enthusiastic about GK involvement in directing defense and being a part of the "field " game in that way, and others who just want them to stop shots, and that's it. The attitude of the coach on this topic will likely carry over to the girls, and impact how they play with the keeper. I had a CB parent tell me once that the defense had been having separate trainings together for a month before the season started so they were "really in sync". She was shocked at my concern that the GK was not included in those sessions.


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## Keepermom2 (Jan 25, 2018)

3JMommy said:


> I have an 03 GK and I agree the support/training that a GK gets in club soccer varies wildly. We live in South OC, and the clubs down here seem to all offer weekly group trainings specific to keepers where they review the tech aspects (diving, punching, punts and kicks etc.). How they are incorporated with their pown team practices depends more on coach. Have had some coaches, who are very enthusiastic about GK involvement in directing defense and being a part of the "field " game in that way, and others who just want them to stop shots, and that's it. The attitude of the coach on this topic will likely carry over to the girls, and impact how they play with the keeper. I had a CB parent tell me once that the defense had been having separate trainings together for a month before the season started so they were "really in sync". She was shocked at my concern that the GK was not included in those sessions.


I find that most Non Keeper parents don't really understand the position.


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## socalkdg (Jan 26, 2018)

Any keeper not included with specific defensive training means that training is missing one of the most important ingredients for the defense, the ability to play back to the keeper from anyplace on the field.  Anyone that watches college and above soccer notice immediately how passes from as far out as the midfield line go back to the keeper.   You don't turn into pressure, you play back to another player, or to your keeper.

One of the dads on the team was a college keeper and we are fortunate to get twice a week training from him at every practice, usually 30-60 minutes.   Balance of practice is done with the team, either in short sides scrimmage, shooting practice, or running some set plays. 

There are some good camps out there for keepers.   Daughter was the only girl at a summer camp playing keeper and the ability to train with the boys and take shots from them during the training makes shots from girls a bit easier.  Once she realizes she can stop a boy from 15 yards out, gives confidence that she can stop anything from a girl(not discounting that there are some girls out there with amazing shots).


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