# Galway Downs To Provide Medical For League Games



## MWN (Aug 28, 2017)

The Galway Downs soccer page (http://www.galwaydowns.com/soccer/) states that Athletic Trainers/EMTs will be provided for all league games (using some of the parking dollars).  I appreciate that this is probably expensive and hard to do with the one off games at some park, but it seems to me that with the new emphasis on concussions, concerns about heat acclimation, this is probably a really good idea and all clubs should be taking care of this.  Are there any other facilities doing this?


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## timbuck (Aug 28, 2017)

I would gladly pay for parking if it meant this was going to be the norm around town.


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## etc1217 (Aug 28, 2017)

They should do this for all Tournaments as well, went to a tournament over the weekend and one of our players got hurt (may have torn a ligament) but no Athletic Trainer available let alone a First Aid Kit.  We pay all this money to tournaments/clubs and they don't provide the bare essentials as First Aid, that's ridiculous.  Especially hearing about the young boy who passed this weekend, there should be some type of medical assistance at these tournaments for these occurrences.


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## MWN (Aug 28, 2017)

@etc1217, absolutely.  I can understand not having medical for the youngers (7v7 and possibly 9v9) who very rarely get seriously injured and with the new no header rule, will rarely get concussions.


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## GKDad65 (Aug 28, 2017)

etc1217 said:


> They should do this for all Tournaments as well, went to a tournament over the weekend and one of our players got hurt (may have torn a ligament) but no Athletic Trainer available let alone a First Aid Kit.  We pay all this money to tournaments/clubs and they don't provide the bare essentials as First Aid, that's ridiculous.  Especially hearing about the young boy who passed this weekend, there should be some type of medical assistance at these tournaments for these occurrences.


What would an AT or First Aid kit have done for a torn ligament?


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## NumberTen (Aug 29, 2017)

A first aid kit and instant ice packs are standard gear for all coaches and managers here.


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## timbuck (Aug 29, 2017)

We've decided to bring a bucket of ice and zip lock bags this year.  Instant ice packs stay cold for about 5 minutes. Better than nothing, but they don't last long enough.


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## El Clasico (Aug 29, 2017)

etc1217 said:


> They should do this for all Tournaments as well, went to a tournament over the weekend and one of our players got hurt (may have torn a ligament) but no Athletic Trainer available let alone a First Aid Kit.  We pay all this money to tournaments/clubs and they don't provide the bare essentials as First Aid, that's ridiculous.  Especially hearing about the young boy who passed this weekend, there should be some type of medical assistance at these tournaments for these occurrences.


At some point, as adults, we have to take a little bit of responsibility for our own actions...or lack thereof.  I have never known a team or been associated with a team that didn't carry around their own first aid kit.  Not sure if they still do this, but CSL use to provide every one of their teams with a team first aid kit free of charge, to have at all of their games so every game should have had at least two first aid kits in addition to any kits the parents already had.


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## MWN (Aug 29, 2017)

US Soccer requires an Athletic Trainer for all Develop Academy games.  Every coach/team manager should have a basic first aid kit to treat bumps, bruises, minor cuts, etc. that's a given.  I understand the basic job of the Athletic Trainer is to conduct an initial assessment of an athlete's injury or illness in order to provide emergency or continued care, and to determine whether they should be referred to physicians for definitive diagnosis and treatment. 

@GKDad65, Its my understanding with ligament damage the treatment is to immobilize and ice.   I've seen EMTs and AT bring out cardboard splints and lots of ice to immobilize the injured leg and then wrap it.  Often times the injury is borderline, and AT's are trained to assess the injury to ascertain whether the player can continue to play after a little ice/rest or needs to leave the game/facility and see a doctor ASAP.

In my mind, having trained medical professionals on the field and available to assess injuries and run through more advanced concussion protocols is just a really good idea.  Especially for the older kids (u13 and up) who tend to have much more catastrophic collisions and injuries.


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## coachrefparent (Aug 29, 2017)

GKDad65 said:


> What would an AT or First Aid kit have done for a torn ligament?


What MWN said.


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## doubled (Aug 29, 2017)

Surf has been providing similar type services for years at the polo fields.  I agree with everyone who mentioned this should be standard operating procedure for all U13 and above matches.


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## futbolmom6 (Aug 29, 2017)

My husband was on the scene where the tragedy occurred this past weekend, but he arrived after the EMTs/paramedics were already there. He's a physician and was shocked they didn't have a defibrillator on site, said it could have saved the boy's life. It's very common to have defibrillators in non-medical settings now, such as grocery stores, banks, etc. Given this, it makes sense to try to have them at all tournaments.


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## Striker17 (Aug 30, 2017)

futbolmom6 said:


> My husband was on the scene where the tragedy occurred this past weekend, but he arrived after the EMTs/paramedics were already there. He's a physician and was shocked they didn't have a defibrillator on site, said it could have saved the boy's life. It's very common to have defibrillators in non-medical settings now, such as grocery stores, banks, etc. Given this, it makes sense to try to have them at all tournaments.


The very last thing anyone should be doing is questioning what did or did not happen from fifty yards out. These kinds of posts are maddening to me. 
I am quite sure that a death has triggered a full incident review. 
I am also quite sure that your husband would not want to be publicly asked about his opinion on what could of or could not have saved a young child's life. This is in poor taste and you do not know what was or was not available at this venue or how close said equipment was to the field


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## futbolmom6 (Aug 30, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> The very last thing anyone should be doing is questioning what did or did not happen from fifty yards out. These kinds of posts are maddening to me.
> I am quite sure that a death has triggered a full incident review.
> I am also quite sure that your husband would not want to be publicly asked about his opinion on what could of or could not have saved a young child's life. This is in poor taste and you do not know what was or was not available at this venue or how close said equipment was to the field


What??  Of course we should be looking at what happened and what can be done in the future to help prevent these kinds of tragedies.  I'm not talking about assigning liability for legal purposes (and you'll note I didn't even suggest anything of the sort), I'm suggesting improvements that can be made in an effort to prevent such tragedies in the future and help ensure no other family has to endure the pain of losing a child on the soccer field.  As for my husband, he would gladly stand to publicly provide his opinion on what could have saved a young child's life - why would you think otherwise?  Your post makes no sense whatsoever. We as a soccer community should be interested in continuing to improve all aspects of the sport, most particularly safety.


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## coachrefparent (Aug 30, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> The very last thing anyone should be doing is questioning what did or did not happen from fifty yards out. These kinds of posts are maddening to me.
> I am quite sure that a death has triggered a full incident review.
> I am also quite sure that your husband would not want to be publicly asked about his opinion on what could of or could not have saved a young child's life. This is in poor taste and you do not know what was or was not available at this venue or how close said equipment was to the field


Right. I doubt the husband said this, as though he knew what caused the collapse, what treatment had been rendered, other pertinent medical factors for diagnosis, all after arriving after the fire department arrived (were they emts or paramedics?) 

Nothing wrong with advocating for AEDs at sports competitions, but making an assertion that it could have saved the boy's life under the guise of a hearsay medical opinion is stupid, and fake facts.


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## Striker17 (Aug 30, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> Right. I doubt the husband said this, as though he knew what caused the collapse, what treatment had been rendered, other pertinent medical factors for diagnosis, all after arriving after the fire department arrived (were they emts or paramedics?)
> 
> Nothing wrong with advocating for AEDs at sports competitions, but making an assertion that it could have saved the boy's life under the guise of a hearsay medical opinion is stupid, and fake facts.


Amen brother. Amen. I am feeling especially charitable today so I will refrain from asking what type of physician he is. I have never met a credible ED or Surgeon/Trauma who would dare say something so stupid in a public forum after a tragedy. 
Yet another soccer moms opinion from her Escalade with no global understanding of Pre hospital medicine or the scene.


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## charlie murphy (Aug 30, 2017)

Talk about throwing your husband into the fire and under the bus! Then doubling down by coming out and saying that he would express his opinion publically. Does he agree with your assertion of HIS opinion? Does his malpractice provider agree with this opinion? He arrived after the EMT's so he has no idea as to what transpired before the emt's.  He likely was not part of the emergency response so his is pure conjecture. Is he  specifically trained in trauma,  currently practiced  in triage, and emergency medicine? AED's are never a bad Idea. Properly used, maybe it's use could have changed this situation . Maybe in the future we will see these devices at all public events. I am sure your husband has a suspicions as to what happened. I would guess your husband would likely hold his opinion until all investigation is complete. I have to agree with striker17 on this. Let's just support the family , the community,  and let the family grieve the loss of their son without casting doubt.


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## coachrefparent (Aug 30, 2017)

futbolmom6 said:


> What??  Of course we should be looking at what happened and what can be done in the future to help prevent these kinds of tragedies.  I'm not talking about assigning liability for legal purposes (and you'll note I didn't even suggest anything of the sort), I'm suggesting improvements that can be made in an effort to prevent such tragedies in the future and help ensure no other family has to endure the pain of losing a child on the soccer field.  As for my husband, he would gladly stand to publicly provide his opinion on what could have saved a young child's life - why would you think otherwise?  Your post makes no sense whatsoever. We as a soccer community should be interested in continuing to improve all aspects of the sport, most particularly safety.


Again, nothing wrong with advocating for more preventative or responsive measures. BUT NONE OF US, including  you and your husband, KNOW WHAT CAUSED THIS CHILD'S DEATH.

Most educated adults, doctors or not, can reasonably conclude what could have happened as such a thing is so rare, but to assert as fact that 1.) "they didn't have a defibrillator on site" (there likely was once your husband arrived as rescue was there), and that 2.) one being at the site prior to rescue arriving "could have saved the boy's life," is not factual, but pure speculation.


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## coachrefparent (Aug 30, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> I have never met a credible ED or Surgeon/Trauma who would dare say something so stupid in a public forum after a tragedy.
> Yet another soccer moms opinion from her Escalade with no global understanding of Pre hospital medicine or the scene.


Yep, give the doc the benefit of the doubt. His wife posted this.


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## Grace T. (Aug 30, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> Again, nothing wrong with advocating for more preventative or responsive measures. BUT NONE OF US, including  you and your husband, KNOW WHAT CAUSED THIS CHILD'S DEATH.
> 
> Most educated adults, doctors or not, can reasonably conclude what could have happened as such a thing is so rare, but to assert as fact that 1.) "they didn't have a defibrillator on site" (there likely was once your husband arrived as rescue was there), and that 2.) one being at the site prior to rescue arriving "could have saved the boy's life," is not factual, but pure speculation.


In fairness to her, she did say "could" rather than "would" and I haven't heard anyone argue here that defibs on site aren't a good idea.  I further point out she posted it in the medical thread, not the condolences thread, which is appropriate.  I further point no one has given any evidence one way or another whether they had a defib on site.  If the statement is inaccurate, that's a bold accusation to be throwing around and the poster shouldn't be doing it without facts.  If it is accurate, then the poster has a bit of a point.  In any case, the question of whether these tournies do have a defib on site, and whether the cost of having one is justified,  are in fact relevant questions, separate and apart from this tragedy.


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## nononono (Aug 30, 2017)

God Bless the young man.
God Bless the young man's family.


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## Lambchop (Aug 30, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> Amen brother. Amen. I am feeling especially charitable today so I will refrain from asking what type of physician he is. I have never met a credible ED or Surgeon/Trauma who would dare say something so stupid in a public forum after a tragedy.
> Yet another soccer moms opinion from her Escalade with no global understanding of Pre hospital medicine or the scene.


And you understand global pre hospital medicine? I didn't know you had a medical degree with years of experience.


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## MWN (Aug 31, 2017)

doubled said:


> Surf has been providing similar type services for years at the polo fields.  I agree with everyone who mentioned this should be standard operating procedure for all U13 and above matches.


I think its fair to say that all the better tournaments provide medical.  From what I have seen, its the clubs and tournaments that have dictated whether the expense of providing medical would be undertaken.  For a facility to mandate medical for all games, including league, is unique to my knowledge.  With the new California Concussion Law and the increased liability to all participants (coaches, clubs, leagues, etc.) I think this should be the norm.  Is medical provided by the Polo Fields (operated by Surf Sports) for regular league play?


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## El Clasico (Aug 31, 2017)

Club Soccer is starting to resemble healthcare.  As we pile on mandates, affordability deteriorates.


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## pewpew (Aug 31, 2017)

AEDs are pretty much everywhere these days. And I'm sure you'll see even more of them on the fields in the near future. It just makes sense and the costs are decreasing so there's no excuse for venues to not have  them. 
Now as far as this sad and unfortunate incident goes..does  ANYONE know whether or not CPR was started by anyone there at the field?
Was he unconscious but breathing when FD arrived? So many variables. 
Prior to FD arrival if he was unconscious but breathing-no CPR/AED.
Did he have a seizure? Did he have this or that?  Because unless anyone knows what really happened out there or if he was in fact in cardiac arrest then it's all hearsay. And if he wasn't in cardiac arrest when paramedics arrived, without knowing any medical history on the boy, unless he was presenting with signs/symptoms of heat stroke there's not a whole lot anyone could do..even if you had 10 AEDs and 100 people trained in CPR. 
Thoughts and prayers for the family. Sure puts life in perspective 
when we sit here trading shots with each other on the Internet. Be thankful you still have your child with you to go out and enjoy watching them play this coming weekend. Be safe out there.


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## Soccersoccersoccer (Aug 31, 2017)

pewpew said:


> AEDs are pretty much everywhere these days. And I'm sure you'll see even more of them on the fields in the near future. It just makes sense and the costs are decreasing so there's no excuse for venues to not have  them.
> Now as far as this sad and unfortunate incident goes..does  ANYONE know whether or not CPR was started by anyone there at the field?
> Was he unconscious but breathing when FD arrived? So many variables.
> Prior to FD arrival if he was unconscious but breathing-no CPR/AED.
> ...


 I know that the the child's mother and the coach's wife attempted to perform CPR on the kid.


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## SocalPapa (Aug 31, 2017)

Many states across the country are starting to pass laws requiring automated external defibrillators (AEDs) at both school sporting events and health studios/gyms.  California has a law urging all State K-12 public schools to implement AED programs.  California also mandates AEDs in all health studios (except hotel gyms).  Perhaps more importantly, California passed a 2015 law making it fairly easy for organizations to obtain immunity from civil liability for anything that might go wrong with their selection, installation, placement or use of AEDs. 

Soccer tournaments are among the largest sporting events around (outside of road races/biking).   So it's kind of surprising to me that there would be no AED standards established for them yet.


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## Fact (Aug 31, 2017)

pewpew said:


> AEDs are pretty much everywhere these days. And I'm sure you'll see even more of them on the fields in the near future. It just makes sense and the costs are decreasing so there's no excuse for venues to not have  them.
> Now as far as this sad and unfortunate incident goes..does  ANYONE know whether or not CPR was started by anyone there at the field?
> Was he unconscious but breathing when FD arrived? So many variables.
> Prior to FD arrival if he was unconscious but breathing-no CPR/AED.
> ...


In an interview with the coach, he said that his wife is a doctor and started CPR.  If you have ever had to perform CPR, it is something that will live with you forever, especially if the person does not survive.  I cannot even imagine what this poor family is going through and everyone that witnessed this sad event. My prays are with them all.


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## coachrefparent (Aug 31, 2017)

Soccersoccersoccer said:


> I know that the the child's mother and the coach's wife attempted to perform CPR on the kid.


The news article cited elsewhere states:


> Felipe, who was playing right back, raised his hand to come out of the game in the second half, saying he was feeling tired, Strikers FC North coach Ron Esparza said by phone Sunday. He was substituted and sat on the bench, but the boy collapsed within about 30 seconds, said Mike Ornelas, who also coaches the team.
> ...
> Esparza’s wife and a physician who happened to be at the event performed CPR on Felipe, Esparza said, but the boy remained unconscious. Paramedics arrived, and Felipe was taken to Orange Coast Memorial Hospital in Fountain Valley, where he was pronounced dead.


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## chargerfan (Aug 31, 2017)

Soccersoccersoccer said:


> I know that the the child's mother and the coach's wife attempted to perform CPR on the kid.


Heartbreaking.


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## Grace T. (Aug 31, 2017)

I point out its not as simple as having an AED on sight.  You have to have a first aid staff certified in using them.  You've also got to establish a field marshal system where the field marshals are trained in what to do in order to get first aid on the field quickly.  At the last 2 tournaments I was a field marshal, I had my hands full basically checking in teams and keeping track of cards.  Just checking in teams and managing the cards was confusing enough for many of the marshals (including the dear lady that replaced me who didn't have a clue of what was going on).  What training I got was basically in checking the teams in, and just call headquarters if something goes wrong like a fight or medical issue.  Many of the field marshals were chatting with their friends or playing with their phones when not checking teams in. Some of the field marshals are teenagers, some of them are older grandparents, all (except the teens) are usually volunteers.  The refs have to be trained in what to do and often times if a player goes down they (unlike AYSO) don't stop the game until a natural stoppage in the flow of the game.  Sometimes multiple issues are going on and head quarters had to deal with multiple calls....sure medical emergency would take priority but that requires training.  Then the headquarters needs to be set up in an area where the AED can quickly be brought onto the farthest field.  So to be effective, it would require quite a bit of planning beyond "have an AED on sight" and would function best if the field marshals were paid employees instead of volunteers and each field had 2 marshals (one to check teams in and one to monitor for fights and medical issues, though that will add a significant cost to the tournament).


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## espola (Aug 31, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> I point out its not as simple as having an AED on sight.  You have to have a first aid staff certified in using them.  You've also got to establish a field marshal system where the field marshals are trained in what to do in order to get first aid on the field quickly.  At the last 2 tournaments I was a field marshal, I had my hands full basically checking in teams and keeping track of cards.  Just checking in teams and managing the cards was confusing enough for many of the marshals (including the dear lady that replaced me who didn't have a clue of what was going on).  What training I got was basically in checking the teams in, and just call headquarters if something goes wrong like a fight or medical issue.  Many of the field marshals were chatting with their friends or playing with their phones when not checking teams in. Some of the field marshals are teenagers, some of them are older grandparents, all (except the teens) are usually volunteers.  The refs have to be trained in what to do and often times if a player goes down they (unlike AYSO) don't stop the game until a natural stoppage in the flow of the game.  Sometimes multiple issues are going on and head quarters had to deal with multiple calls....sure medical emergency would take priority but that requires training.  Then the headquarters needs to be set up in an area where the AED can quickly be brought onto the farthest field.  So to be effective, it would require quite a bit of planning beyond "have an AED on sight" and would function best if the field marshals were paid employees instead of volunteers and each field had 2 marshals (one to check teams in and one to monitor for fights and medical issues, though that will add a significant cost to the tournament).


AEDs are frequently placed at locations where there is not likely to be anyone certified in using them.  The American Heart Association encourages that practice, especially in locations that are at higher risk then normal to be the site of a heart attack, such as on the pool deck of my local senior citizens community center.

As for referees stopping a game to allow treatment of an injured player, a player's parents are the bystanders most likely to be watching the player even when the ball or game action causes the referee crew to direct their attention elsewhere.  Every parent should be prepared to intrude on a game to rescue their child (or other children, for that matter) if they see an obvious injury that needs immediate attention - such as heavy bleeding, a displaced fracture or joint, convulsions, or difficulty breathing.


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## doubled (Aug 31, 2017)

MWN said:


> I think its fair to say that all the better tournaments provide medical.  From what I have seen, its the clubs and tournaments that have dictated whether the expense of providing medical would be undertaken.  For a facility to mandate medical for all games, including league, is unique to my knowledge.  With the new California Concussion Law and the increased liability to all participants (coaches, clubs, leagues, etc.) I think this should be the norm.  Is medical provided by the Polo Fields (operated by Surf Sports) for regular league play?


Every time I've been to the polo fields they have had at least one trainer, including fall & spring league games as well as all tournaments.  The past few years RU (Rehab United) was providing people to work the medical tent or at least the ones I spoke to worked there.  Surf Cup also had an ambulance onsite a few times in the past as I recall but not this year for whatever reason.

Fully agree that most larger facilities do have some type of medical most of the time and should be the norm as you stated.  At Silverlakes last weekend we had to search them out on the other side of the complex but did find a very patient attentive trainer in the end.  On the flip side my DD tore her ACL at OC Great Park in 2015...zero training staff there that day.


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## Grace T. (Aug 31, 2017)

espola said:


> AEDs are frequently placed at locations where there is not likely to be anyone certified in using them.  The American Heart Association encourages that practice, especially in locations that are at higher risk then normal to be the site of a heart attack, such as on the pool deck of my local senior citizens community center.
> 
> As for referees stopping a game to allow treatment of an injured player, a player's parents are the bystanders most likely to be watching the player even when the ball or game action causes the referee crew to direct their attention elsewhere.  Every parent should be prepared to intrude on a game to rescue their child (or other children, for that matter) if they see an obvious injury that needs immediate attention - such as heavy bleeding, a displaced fracture or joint, convulsions, or difficulty breathing.


O.k. basically I agree but unless you have a plan to deploy the AED, just having it there is going to make it less likely of being any use to anyone.  It just becomes a spare-us-litigation, or comply-with-the-law defensive practice.

I agree every parent "should" be prepared to intrude on the game.  The question is "are" they.  I think it's asking a bit much of parents, who we constantly drill into their heads they shouldn't coach from the sidelines (even though they still do) or yell at the refs but it's o.k. if you decide necessary to intrude on the game.  Not everyone is as assertive as you.  The coach?  Forget it....too much fear of being thrown out particularly if there's an allegation the coach stopped a scoring opportunity.  Different people's judgment about when to intrude will also be different (DYS grandmother wants to run out for every little scrape).  Sure, a ref may not see the injury since his/her eye is on the ball (I've been in that position as well).  But the emphasis on the ref training between AYSO and club soccer is very different, even for the U12 set.  In club, the refs err on the side of not stopping the game (and without stopping it is difficult for anyone to assess whats going on with a player that's down).  In AYSO, emphasis is placed on the refs stopping the game if a child goes down and restart with a drop ball if no foul is committed (I have yet to see a drop ball in any of my son's club soccer games and when I called one a few weeks back I was roundly heckled by "come on ref...that's not a foul...play on").  I'm not passing judgment on which approach is right....can see both sides of the story (doesn't make for pretty soccer if the game is always stopped, it's unfair if there's no foul called and a team is on a fast break, how are kids going to learn to play through it and adapt when they get older, it just encourages kids to flop)...but if our emphasis is going to be on making sure the kids are safe, then the refs should be trained to halt the game (if they see it) for potential injuries.


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## Surfref (Sep 1, 2017)

espola said:


> AEDs are frequently placed at locations where there is not likely to be anyone certified in using them.  The American Heart Association encourages that practice, especially in locations that are at higher risk then normal to be the site of a heart attack, such as on the pool deck of my local senior citizens community center.
> 
> As for referees stopping a game to allow treatment of an injured player, a player's parents are the bystanders most likely to be watching the player even when the ball or game action causes the referee crew to direct their attention elsewhere.  Every parent should be prepared to intrude on a game to rescue their child (or other children, for that matter) if they see an obvious injury that needs immediate attention - such as heavy bleeding, a displaced fracture or joint, convulsions, or difficulty breathing.


Today's AED's are so simple to use that even an illiterate person with no experience could use one.  The AED has voice commands that will talk a person through the steps.  I have had to perform CPR several times in my life and one time using a modern AED.  The AED provided the instructions and actually seemed to help calm the situation down because you have to focus on getting the procedures correct. 

I am at a loss as to why coaches are not required to attend a CPR/BLS class.  I recertify my CRP/ALS certification every two years.  The CPR/BLS class takes about 5 hours to complete and could be something that clubs could easily arrange for their coaches to attend at the start of each season.

Referees working youth games should know they need to stop the game immediately when they believe a youth player may be injured more severely than a scrape to the knee.  What really pisses me off is when I stop the game for an injured player and the coach either flat out refuses to come onto the field and check on their player or takes their time slowly walking to the injured player.  I wish I had the power to eject those uncaring coaches.


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## soccermama213 (Sep 1, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> The very last thing anyone should be doing is questioning what did or did not happen from fifty yards out. These kinds of posts are maddening to me.
> I am quite sure that a death has triggered a full incident review.
> I am also quite sure that your husband would not want to be publicly asked about his opinion on what could of or could not have saved a young child's life. This is in poor taste and you do not know what was or was not available at this venue or how close said equipment was to the field


I disagree. We should be trying to figure out what can be done better to further protect all of our children and those still to come. A defibrillator is a life saving device that should  be at ALL sporting events. Its portable and important.


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