# GA departures



## Mic Nificent

With Beach and Legends joining ECNL does anyone have any insight or thoughts on which club should try and fill those open spots in GA?


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## Tim Powell

Mic Nificent said:


> With Beach and Legends joining ECNL does anyone have any insight or thoughts on which club should try and fill those open spots in GA?


...or if GA survives this?


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## Giesbock

Why wouldn’t GA survive two strong teams leaving? They’re expanding and even if they aren’t top dog, they’re bringing in new member revenue.  Porsche sells x units. Lexus sells 100x units.  Which is doing better financially?  
Yes I’m biased and from what I’ve seen this weekend, GA stepped up with some awesome battles despite tough weather.  Robust social media push, well attended live streaming.

How was that ECNL show case in Houston? Oh yeah, they folded up with a few days notice.


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## crush

Giesbock said:


> Why wouldn’t GA survive two strong teams leaving? They’re expanding and even if they aren’t top dog, they’re bringing in new member revenue.  Porsche sells x units. Lexus sells 100x units.  Which is doing better financially?
> Yes I’m biased and from what I’ve seen this weekend, GA stepped up with some awesome battles despite tough weather.  Robust social media push, well attended live streaming.
> 
> How was that ECNL show case in Houston? Oh yeah, they folded up with a few days notice.


Bro, easy on Houston ECNL Showcase.  It was freaking cold as ice and a huge pile up on the freeway.  It was the right decision and applaud them for keeping the kids safe from the Ice and that dreaded flu bug.  GA will be just find.  Look, some clubs get it all right now and its just the way life used to be.  It will all even out some day.  I love you positive attitude


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## Soccerfan2

The instat impact player posts are pretty cool. That’s the most creative and potentially impactful thing GA has brought forward so far IMHO. Would love to see ECNL do something similar.


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## Giesbock

crush said:


> Bro, easy on Houston ECNL Showcase.  It was freaking cold as ice and a huge pile up on the freeway.  It was the right decision and applaud them for keeping the kids safe from the Ice and that dreaded flu bug.  GA will be just find.  Look, some clubs get it all right now and its just the way life used to be.  It will all even out some day.  I love you positive attitude


You’re right. Didn’t mean to be insensitive to that horiffic accident and chance of others.  I take it back.

Austin area super cold but dry roads so far..

I think ECNL doing another showcase in Phoenix area early April?


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## crush

Giesbock said:


> You’re right. Didn’t mean to be insensitive to that horiffic accident and chance of others.  I take it back.
> 
> Austin area super cold but dry roads so far..
> 
> I think ECNL doing another showcase in Phoenix area early April?


I'm impressed with how quick you see the error.  Trust me, I have much to say about many things that are eating my soul and brain.  However, i believe Karma for all is coming.  California is on lock down so you can;t leave the state.  However, if you show Hawaii a negative rona test, you can play on the Island right away, no 10 day staying at the Sheraton before leave for the fun and adventure.  $273 round trip out of LAX.


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## kickingandscreaming

Giesbock said:


> You’re right. Didn’t mean to be insensitive to that horiffic accident and chance of others.  I take it back.
> 
> Austin area super cold but dry roads so far..
> 
> I think ECNL doing another showcase in Phoenix area early April?


Hearing possibilities of the Houston ECNL event being rescheduled in March. Should know in about a week.


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## crush

kickingandscreaming said:


> Hearing possibilities of the Houston ECNL event being rescheduled in March. Should know in about a week.


I heard the same thing.  Can we leave California?  ECNL said no way.  What are the odds we get to leave the state?  The problem is, most teams can;t practice or play.  If we do practice, it's 6 x 6 touch futbol.  A complete joke all this is.  Adult males in OC ball all day and no one does a thing, but girls try and play and it's a big no.  My dd has played in one league game in 12 months.  No tough practices or 3 days a week like others and scrimmage all the time.  I would like the clubs to just start letting the kids get physical and knock each other around.  One month of hard core training would be helpful for us in socal.


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## Speed

kickingandscreaming said:


> Hearing possibilities of the Houston ECNL event being rescheduled in March. Should know in about a week.


won't matter if they continue to ban CA teams


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## dad4

Speed said:


> won't matter if they continue to ban CA teams


What CA team cannot find a decent opponent within CA?

You just need to plan a CA only event for April or May.  No hotels.  No tournament crowds.  Just soccer.

Spread it out over a bunch of fields so it’s within rules.  Post results and game video online.


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## kickingandscreaming

dad4 said:


> What CA team cannot find a decent opponent within CA?
> 
> You just need to plan a CA only event for April or May.  No hotels.  No tournament crowds.  Just soccer.
> 
> Spread it out over a bunch of fields so it’s within rules.  Post results and game video online.


It's been since March 2020 that our club has been allowed to scrimmage in training in your (our) county. Maybe that would be a good first step. It might be nice to be able to train on the city-owned fields as well. Don't get ahead of yourself.


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## dad4

kickingandscreaming said:


> It's been since March 2020 that our club has been allowed to scrimmage in training in your (our) county. Maybe that would be a good first step. It might be nice to be able to train on the city-owned fields as well. Don't get ahead of yourself.


for some reason, current rules allow intra club at the same time as inter club.  Just wear masks and don't travel too far.


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## crush

dad4 said:


> for some reason, current rules allow intra club at the same time as inter club.  Just wear masks and don't travel too far.


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## Dargle

Tim Powell said:


> ...or if GA survives this?


If Beach and Legends had their top teams in ECRL and their second teams in GA, is GA really losing anything from their departure?  I'm sure their second teams were pretty good, but I doubt many players or clubs chose GA because of the quality of those clubs' second team players.  Moreover, if they stayed at or went to a GA club because they thought that Beach and Legends were all in, then the shakeup would have come next year anyway after they learned the reality.  

At least in Socal, my guess is that GA's survival will depend upon whether clubs with Premier/Flight 1 Championship teams decide GA is a better showcase platform than CSL/SCDSL and their associated national tournaments plus trying to get accepted to national-level club tournaments.  In that sense, GA's survival may be more a function of how well Socal's leagues and clubs survive the pandemic.


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## GT45

Would ECNL allow this? Or did they say 'all in ECNL' like they did when DA was around?

Would GA be ok with it? Because allowing a clubs second team in is a statement that it is a second tier league.


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## lafalafa

GT45 said:


> Would ECNL allow this? Or did they say 'all in ECNL' like they did when DA was around?
> 
> Would GA be ok with it? Because allowing a clubs second team in is a statement that it is a second tier league.


ECNL/RL and a 2nd USclub league like SCDSL or one of the NPLs yes.  Plenty of that going on.

Separate sanctioning like GA and Usclub (ECxx, NPL's) might be discouraged or wouldn't make a lot of sense but not sure USclub or GA would or could prevent clubs from doing that.


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## OCSoccerDad3

Looks like several new clubs are leaving their CalSouth leagues and joining SCDSL. Some are ECNL, so apparently no conflict having teams in two US Club leagues.


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## Goforgoal

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> Looks like several new clubs are leaving their CalSouth leagues and joining SCDSL. Some are ECNL, so apparently no conflict having teams in two US Club leagues.


I never thought there would be. ECNL clubs will play their younger teams in SCDSL (SoCal or whatever it is now) or NPL and such, then shift them to ECNL/ECRL in the first eligible year. 3rd and below teams will continue to play in SCDSL. Non-ECNL clubs will do the same but carry on through older age groups in the league or move on to their other respective "Elite or Academy" leagues.

From what it's looking like, Presidio (and maybe CSL) are toast? There seems to be a massive rush for the door going on. I don't know much about how the league circuits and governing bodies operate, but I don't see how CalSouth survives this.


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## GT45

You guys are missing my point. So Cal/SCDSL is a local league that is not in competition with ECNL. It is a developmental league that serves as a feeder for some of their clubs national league teams. ECNL clubs have always had teams in SCDSL.

ECNL did not let clubs compete in both ECNL and DA unless they met certain performance standards (very few did). I do not know if DA had the same policy or not. GA was created as a national league and is essentially direct competition for ECNL. So if ECNL offers Beach and Legends (which they did), I suspect they said all-in ECNL (no GA) or nothing.


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## OCSoccerDad3

This all makes sense. There are dozens of smaller clubs unaccounted for with the SoCal/SCDSL announcement, though nearly all of the bigger clubs have made the move. Maybe there is a market with Presidio and CSL for smaller community/neighborhood clubs that don't care to compete with the bigger players in youth soccer. Time will tell.


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## lafalafa

USclub is fine with clubs in multiple leagues, ECXx, NPL's, SoCal, etc  they have been making inroads vs Cal South now for years and this coming season 21-22 they maybe finally have greater numbers.

CSL is not going away they serve more of the LA and other county market for smaller to medium size clubs.

Presidio will likely downsize and continue on.

Overall Cal South will shrink some but USYS still has plenty of members in Socal. With the MLS Next platform they will still have new members to offset some of the losses to Cal South member leagues like CSL & Presidio.


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## El Clasico

GT45 said:


> You guys are missing my point. So Cal/SCDSL is a local league that is not in competition with ECNL. It is a developmental league that serves as a feeder for some of their clubs national league teams. ECNL clubs have always had teams in SCDSL.
> 
> ECNL did not let clubs compete in both ECNL and DA unless they met certain performance standards (very few did). I do not know if DA had the same policy or not. GA was created as a national league and is essentially direct competition for ECNL. So if ECNL offers Beach and Legends (which they did), I suspect they said all-in ECNL (no GA) or nothing.


You can be sure that both Legends and Beach will have their 2nd teams in ECRL next season. I am sure that it was discussed in length between the league and the clubs prior to them gaining acceptance. It's likely that the only ones that don't know this are the majority of speculators that post on this board these days and the GA league itself. Why cause a rift before the end of season. More likely that GA has been informed and is aware but is not in any hurry to tell it's member clubs so as to not drive away players or teams. If GA lasts more than 3 years, it's only because parents are dumber than I give them credit for.


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## Giesbock

El Clasico said:


> You can be sure that both Legends and Beach will have their 2nd teams in ECRL next season. I am sure that it was discussed in length between the league and the clubs prior to them gaining acceptance. It's likely that the only ones that don't know this are the majority of speculators that post on this board these days and the GA league itself. Why cause a rift before the end of season. More likely that GA has been informed and is aware but is not in any hurry to tell it's member clubs so as to not drive away players or teams. If GA lasts more than 3 years, it's only because parents are dumber than I give them credit for.


That’s a blanket statement- essentially you called me and a few thousand other parents dumb. Nice classic boneheaded comment.


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## crush

Giesbock said:


> That’s a blanket statement- essentially you called me and a few thousand other parents dumb. Nice classic boneheaded comment.


I got called moron a few times by my educated brethren


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## Chelsea dad g09

El Clasico said:


> You can be sure that both Legends and Beach will have their 2nd teams in ECRL next season. I am sure that it was discussed in length between the league and the clubs prior to them gaining acceptance. It's likely that the only ones that don't know this are the majority of speculators that post on this board these days and the GA league itself. Why cause a rift before the end of season. More likely that GA has been informed and is aware but is not in any hurry to tell it's member clubs so as to not drive away players or teams. If GA lasts more than 3 years, it's only because parents are dumber than I give them credit for.


I must be a dumbass for letting my girl play on a solid ga team in which shes shown constant improvement and has grown under her coach than leave for the ecnl team that offered her a spot just because its ecnl. How could I be so stupid?


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## El Clasico

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> I must be a dumbass for letting my girl play on a solid ga team in which shes shown constant improvement and has grown under her coach than leave for the ecnl team that offered her a spot just because its ecnl. How could I be so stupid?


Has it been 3 years already? Man, time flies!!  

I don't think you are a dumbass for letting your girl play on a GA team. But it is possible that you are one for not  understanding my post.


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## Chelsea dad g09

El Clasico said:


> Has it been 3 years already? Man, time flies!!
> 
> I don't think you are a dumbass for letting your girl play on a GA team. But it is possible that you are one for not  understanding my post.


Riiiiight. Guess everyone else misunderstood your post as well? Ok got it.


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## Giesbock

Actually I could care less what e-classic thinks of GA and prospects for long term success. My kid loves her team, learning, improving, scoring goals and tasting some wins.  Having seen first hand the machismo and sexist attitudes that are pervasive in soccer, I’m all in for a League that puts female players first.


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## SoccerFan4Life

El Clasico said:


> You can be sure that both Legends and Beach will have their 2nd teams in ECRL next season. I am sure that it was discussed in length between the league and the clubs prior to them gaining acceptance. It's likely that the only ones that don't know this are the majority of speculators that post on this board these days and the GA league itself. Why cause a rift before the end of season. More likely that GA has been informed and is aware but is not in any hurry to tell it's member clubs so as to not drive away players or teams. If GA lasts more than 3 years, it's only because parents are dumber than I give them credit for.


 I give much respect to those parents that are prioritizing a good coaching environment and friendships over just jumping to the alphabet ranking status.  Our kids well being and development should come first always.   If your kid is great  he/she will get discovered by college scouts as long as your coach and club give them exposure.


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## crush

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I give much respect to those parents that are prioritizing a good coaching environment and friendships over just jumping to the alphabet ranking status.  Our kids well being and development should come first always.   If your kid is great  he/she will get discovered by college scouts as long as your coach and club give them exposure.


To each his own soccer fan 4 life.  No right or wrong, only what is right for the player and family.  I have much respect for parents and kids who get the hell out of dodge ((unhealthy environment for kids)) and find a safe place.  Everyone has a different experience, trust me   It just sucks when some folks say the reason for the hop is to win medals or get scouted by the YNT scouts who said the only place to be seen was at the GDA.  That was sad and not right and we ALL see how wrong that league was because that league was taken out for obvious reasons.


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## Giesbock

crush said:


> To each his own soccer fan 4 life.  No right or wrong, only what is right for the player and family.  I have much respect for parents and kids who get the hell out of dodge ((unhealthy environment for kids)) and find a safe place.  Everyone has a different experience, trust me   It just sucks when some folks say the reason for the hop is to win medals or get scouted by the YNT scouts who said the only place to be seen was at the GDA.  That was sad and not right and we ALL see how wrong that league was because that league was taken out for obvious reasons.


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## Giesbock

My daughter wasn’t even on a club team during that “era” but GA seems to have a different focus than the DA.  I know you know the difference between them - just a reminder not to conflate the two organizations.  

End of day, top players put in the extra work, and maybe with some luck and coach connections, get somewhere.

Can’t remember where I heard that most starters at Long Beach are walk ons.  if true, it might be that recruited players (who likely came from one of letter leagues), let off the gas once school started and lost starting time to tough, hardworking local ballers who didn’t come through the showcase ranks.

Curious if anyone has heard similar?


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## crush

Giesbock said:


> *My daughter wasn’t even on a club team* during that “era” but GA seems to have a different focus than the DA.  I know you know the difference between them -* just a reminder not to conflate the two organizations. *
> 
> End of day, top players put in the extra work, and maybe with some luck and coach connections, get somewhere.
> 
> Can’t remember where I heard that most starters at Long Beach are walk ons.  if true, it might be that recruited players (who likely came from one of letter leagues), let off the gas once school started and lost starting time to tough, hardworking local ballers who didn’t come through the showcase ranks.
> 
> Curious if anyone has heard similar?


Was this directed at me bro?  I think you said your dd came late to the club scene and went through DPL first, worked hard and then got her chance with the call up to the big squad in GDA game and never got sent back to the minors?  She has speed and is scoring goals and that's all that matters to many.  She will be find 100% and I really love the story of hard work bro.  My dd was balling in that "era" and it was done so fast and with no regard to the wellbeing of most of the girls.  It was a power grab.  GA in Socal is not going to work out, MOO!  I'm just being honest with you bro.  I do respect loyalty and staying with a coach youve been with since kid was 8.  I'm telling you for most kids, they get a new coach every year.  Good luck to your player.  P.S.  Go Dirt Bags!!!!


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## Giesbock

No it wasn’t directed at any individual. And yes you’re right. She joined a DPL, guest played a few times with DA. Then that league went poof and we all sorta went into Covid mode!  Dang good that we might get to normal soon!


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## crush

Giesbock said:


> No it wasn’t directed at any individual. And yes you’re right. She joined a DPL, guest played a few times with DA. Then that league went poof and we all sorta went into Covid mode!  Dang good that we might get to normal soon!


"Poof" is a great word on what happen to that league.  I do agree with soccer fan 4 life that if your super happy with your coach and team then no reason to jump ship to play against the best of the best.  My kid would have none of that btw.  She and I come from the same cloth.  She would 100% look to be playing with the best and against the best.  She would leave bro for greener ((more competitive matches)) pasture, I wont lie.


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## happy9

Giesbock said:


> Actually I could care less what e-classic thinks of GA and prospects for long term success. My kid loves her team, learning, improving, scoring goals and tasting some wins.  Having seen first hand the machismo and sexist attitudes that are pervasive in soccer, I’m all in for a League that puts female players first.


Oh don't worry, this debate will continue forever.  You will hear the sales pitch over and over.  Keep your eye on the ball.  Most college coaches will tell you that what's most important is environment , consistency, and grades.  Of course quality of competition matters.  The reality is that a few on this forum (or on any forum) will have players that will play on any YNT or go to a top rated P5 school.  Those schools get pick of the litter.  They get first dibs and roster space is limited (even though they are large rosters).  

Everyone wants to kill the GA, I get it.  They will be challenged to say the least.  They have set the right temperament and priorities.  The current track record clearly shows ECNL fills the rosters of top collegiate teams at a higher rate than anyone else, even when the GDA was around.  And they should, ECNL's footprint is large.  It's good to have choices.  If your player can start for (Surf), be an impact player and be a leader, then go there.  Not everyone on a Surf roster will play at Stanford, most won't.  But if you are that good, Surf is a good place to be (just as an example).  The recruiting process can be stressful, especially if parents and players don't level set expectations.  

Find a coach that has shown success in placing players and has the temperament that you desire, stick with them as long as possible.  Enjoy the ride.


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## crush

happy9 said:


> Oh don't worry, this debate will continue forever.  You will hear the sales pitch over and over. * Keep your eye on the ball.*  Most college coaches will tell you that what's most important is environment , consistency, and grades.  Of course quality of competition matters.  The reality is that a few on this forum (or on any forum) will have players that will play on any YNT or go to a top rated P5 school.  Those schools get pick of the litter.  They get first dibs and roster space is limited (even though they are large rosters).
> 
> Everyone wants to kill the GA, I get it.  They will be challenged to say the least.  They have set the right temperament and priorities.  The current track record clearly shows ECNL fills the rosters of top collegiate teams at a higher rate than anyone else, even when the GDA was around.  And they should, ECNL's footprint is large.  It's good to have choices.  If your player can start for (Surf), be an impact player and be a leader, then go there.  Not everyone on a Surf roster will play at Stanford, most won't.  But if you are that good, Surf is a good place to be (just as an example).  The recruiting process can be stressful, especially if parents and players don't level set expectations.
> 
> Find a coach that has shown success in placing players and has the temperament that you desire, stick with them as long as possible.  Enjoy the ride.


Hey Happy, we all have a different ball(s) to look at.  Some look at college only and that is where their eye is at.  Some want to play against the best and it's just about pure competition balling.  Some want to win championship ball game and will look to make a team so they win too. Some want...........fill in the blank.  I dont want to kill the GA and I hope it stays in business.  The GDA I was not a fan of at all.  I was just being honest with what I could see with my eyes in socal.  Find a coach?  Enjoy the ride of a crazy ass roller coaster and for some, a coaster that goes into the darkness and never stops.  The only way off is to jump off and hope to God you land on a cushion.  Imagine jumping off Space Mountain Happy?


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## happy9

crush said:


> Hey Happy, we all have a different ball(s) to look at.  Some look at college only and that is where their eye is at.  Some want to play against the best and it's just about pure competition balling.  Some want to win championship ball game and will look to make a team so they win too. Some want...........fill in the blank.  I dont want to kill the GA and I hope it stays in business.  The GDA I was not a fan of at all.  I was just being honest with what I could see with my eyes in socal.  Find a coach?  Enjoy the ride of a crazy ass roller coaster and for some, a coaster that goes into the darkness and never stops.  The only way off is to jump off and hope to God you land on a cushion.  Imagine jumping off Space Mountain Happy?


Yep, find a coach, usually a good start.

We've experienced ECNL and GDA.  GDA did soccer better than ECNL.  ECNL ran/runs business better.  We have a coach and environment that is right for us for right now.  It's good to have choices and be in control of when/how to make choices.  Parents just need to be informed.  Kinda like going to the Dr.  Have your list of questions ready and your research done.  Parent temperament also plays an enormous role.  

And yes, roller coaster it is, enjoy the ride - players only get one ride.


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## crush

happy9 said:


> *We've experienced ECNL and GDA.  GDA did soccer better than ECNL.*  ECNL ran/runs business better.  We have a coach and environment that is right for us for right now.  It's good to have choices and be in control of when/how to make choices.  Parents just need to be informed.  Kinda like going to the Dr.  Have your list of questions ready and your research done.  Parent temperament also plays an enormous role.
> 
> And yes, roller coaster it is, enjoy the ride - players only get one ride.


GDA did not do better than ECNL.  That is 100% a crock Happy.  First, no playoffs for U14 kids.  That was so stupid and lame.  Second, no hs soccer allowed unless you had money and a waiver.  Super stupid and probably one of the reasons that league was not better than ECNL and why it failed.  Third, they used the YNT List as a carrot to sucker folks to their league.  That was stupid and not fair to kids who were either far away from the GDA or were forced to make a move and go to another team that had GDA sign in the front window.  I understand loyality but most kids had to transfer teams and then again and again.  The soccer was weak and watered down.  End of story!!!


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## Chelsea dad g09

My daughter still has 2 years until high school, yup I'm choosing a coach/team over the letters in the league.


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## futboldad1

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> My daughter still has 2 years until high school, yup I'm choosing a coach/team over the letters in the league.


With due respect.....with far fewer ECNL roster spots than there is demand....it will be the coaches who choose, not you...


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## Chelsea dad g09

futboldad1 said:


> With due respect.....with far fewer ECNL roster spots than there is demand....it will be the coaches who choose, not you...


Well she already got offered a spot on an ecnl club and declined. If shes good enough when it means something, the slots will still be there. 

I get what you're saying though but it would be foolish to pull her from a place where shes developing and learning to love the game than to jump to an ecnl team for the reason being ecnl vs ga. We all know the coaches will want the talent if shes still good enough.


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## met61

El Clasico said:


> Has it been 3 years already? Man, time flies!!
> 
> I don't think you are a dumbass for letting your girl play on a GA team. But it is possible that you are one for not  understanding my post.


I understand your post, you're the typical "my kid plays on the top team in the top league" parent. It's usually not what's best for your kid, but what's best for your ego.

At the age being discussed, for most kids and parents there are far more important factors than the "top league". In fact, "top league and/or top team" is subjective based on geographical location and available spots.

I have friends who play in SD County, which is a perfect example. SD County has 3 ECNL clubs (Surf, Sharks and Rebels) and 3 GA clubs (Albion, City and SDSC). From my experience, Surf, Albion, City and SDSC all put out solid teams, whereas Rebels and Sharks are weak. So for many, it becomes 3 GA practices a week down the street with friends or ECNL w/o friends 30-60 minutes one way across the county. At this age, keeping soccer fun, convenient, competitive, and most of all with friends is wise and not a bad way to go.

Most kids don't care much about which league, parents are a different story.


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## happy9

crush said:


> GDA did not do better than ECNL.  That is 100% a crock Happy.  First, no playoffs for U14 kids.  That was so stupid and lame.  Second, no hs soccer allowed unless you had money and a waiver.  Super stupid and probably one of the reasons that league was not better than ECNL and why it failed.  Third, they used the YNT List as a carrot to sucker folks to their league.  That was stupid and not fair to kids who were either far away from the GDA or were forced to make a move and go to another team that had GDA sign in the front window.  I understand loyality but most kids had to transfer teams and then again and again.  The soccer was weak and watered down.  End of story!!!


That's right, no playoffs for U14...If you want to win medals, and trophies, and t-shirts, play somewhere else at that age.  U14 is a great age to be exposed to more quality training, less but more quality games, and some exposure to a system style of play.  

GDA didn't fail because it was bad soccer, it failed because of incompetent management.  

The YNT carrot will now be used by ECNL, and why not.

I suppose if U14s weren't winning championships then the soccer was weak and watered down.


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## Soccer43

Incompetent management and some  very bad coaches and destructive DOC's.  You can't make a blanket statement about the DA being good or bad for soccer.  Some of the clubs did a good job and some were a train wreck, took thousands of dollars from hopeful parents and players that were sold a bill of goods with no return on that investment.  Many players were threatened with YNT hopes and changed clubs to be on a DA team.  Those clubs that did a good job with the DA were already solid clubs doing a good job in ECNL before the DA arrived.  The DA was 100% a crap show for some.  Having a good solid coach is important.  But what is most important, if your player wants to play NCAA soccer  is a club coach has connections with college coaches and a solid reputation in terms of recruiting.  It is also crucial that the team be playing in the high competitive level so that college coaches will come to watch the games.  If you go to Vegas cup and your team is a lower level playing on the field out in the boonies away from the action no college coaches will show up; 100% guaranteed on that fact.


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## crush

happy9 said:


> That's right, no playoffs for U14...If you want to win medals, and trophies, and t-shirts, play somewhere else at that age.  U14 is a great age to be exposed to more quality training, less but more quality games, and some exposure to a system style of play.
> 
> GDA didn't fail because it was bad soccer, it failed because of incompetent management.
> 
> The YNT carrot will now be used by ECNL, and why not.
> 
> I suppose if U14s weren't winning championships then the soccer was weak and watered down.


Wrong and more wrong.  Happy, are you in on the inside?  Do you have a stake in the game?  You make zero sense to me.  U14 and no playoffs or any game that matters?  What sugar toast are you eating from?  That is not a good winning forumula.  This MOO and dont get all sad Happy.  Lastman agrees with you as well.  You guys, competition is super important and winning is super important to teach at 14.  I'm still shocked at some of you.  BTW Happy, only the old ODP was the best way.  ECNL has not and will not use The List like GDA did.  That was the only thing they had dude.  Nothing else, trust me.  Come on man......


----------



## crush

Soccer43 said:


> Incompetent management and some  very bad coaches and destructive DOC's.  You can't make a blanket statement about the DA being good or bad for soccer.  Some of the clubs did a good job and some were a train wreck, took thousands of dollars from hopeful parents and players that were sold a bill of goods with no return on that investment.  Many players were threatened with YNT hopes and changed clubs to be on a DA team.  Those clubs that did a good job with the DA were already solid clubs doing a good job in ECNL before the DA arrived.  The DA was 100% a crap show for some.  Having a good solid coach is important.  But what is most important, if your player wants to play NCAA soccer  is a club coach has connections with college coaches and a solid reputation in terms of recruiting.  It is also crucial that the team be playing in the high competitive level so that college coaches will come to watch the games.  If you go to Vegas cup and your team is a lower level playing on the field out in the boonies away from the action no college coaches will show up; 100% guaranteed on that fact.


100% fact bro.  Good job 43.  Lay it out flat out I say.  Speak the truth even when it hurts.....


----------



## happy9

Soccer43 said:


> Incompetent management and some  very bad coaches and destructive DOC's.  You can't make a blanket statement about the DA being good or bad for soccer.  Some of the clubs did a good job and some were a train wreck, took thousands of dollars from hopeful parents and players that were sold a bill of goods with no return on that investment.  Many players were threatened with YNT hopes and changed clubs to be on a DA team.  Those clubs that did a good job with the DA were already solid clubs doing a good job in ECNL before the DA arrived.  The DA was 100% a crap show for some.  Having a good solid coach is important.  But what is most important, if your player wants to play NCAA soccer  is a club coach has connections with college coaches and a solid reputation in terms of recruiting.  It is also crucial that the team be playing in the high competitive level so that college coaches will come to watch the games.  If you go to Vegas cup and your team is a lower level playing on the field out in the boonies away from the action no college coaches will show up; 100% guaranteed on that fact.


Experience will drive bias and opinion.  Every league shares the attributes you just laid out.  Up to the parents to figure it out. No doubt the GDA was disruptive, it was supposed to be.  And you are right, solid DA clubs were already solid clubs, that was the point.

Coaches, connections, environment, and level of competition - you are so right.  I keep saying it's silly for clubs in CA to play in any type of national league, you guys don't need em.


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> Wrong and more wrong.  Happy, are you in on the inside?  Do you have a stake in the game?  You make zero sense to me.  U14 and no playoffs or any game that matters?  What sugar toast are you eating from?  That is not a good winning forumula.  This MOO and dont get all sad Happy.  Lastman agrees with you as well.  You guys, competition is super important and winning is super important to teach at 14.  I'm still shocked at some of you.  BTW Happy, only the old ODP was the best way.  ECNL has not and will not use The List like GDA did.  That was the only thing they had dude.  Nothing else, trust me.  Come on man......


The inside of my house?  yep.  Winning is important, but so is learning how to play.  ECNL is already using "the list", as is the GA, and others.  They've always used the list.  The GDA just had a more direct pathway, that was the intent.  It's why they harvested the best clubs in the country. 

Athletes know the importance of winning way before they are 14.  Its' why they compete.  When you get all the GOATS together, you have to teach them how to win and lose.


----------



## Giesbock

Can someone please clarify-
Legends and Beach are both apparently fulfilling their 1 season commitment to the GA and next season, start with ECNL.

They’re apparently playing their top team in ECRL and second team in GA.

But WCFC is playing top team in GA and second team in ECRL...

I heard WCFC’s ECRL team took a beat down- something like 10-0 from both Beach and Legends.

Do those clubs have flexibility to shift who plays who so they could pit best on best from each club instead of a walkover?


----------



## crush

Giesbock said:


> Can someone please clarify-
> Legends and Beach are both apparently fulfilling their 1 season commitment to the GA and next season, start with ECNL.
> 
> They’re apparently playing their top team in ECRL and second team in GA.
> 
> But WCFC is playing top team in GA and second team in ECRL...
> 
> I heard WCFC’s ECRL team took a beat down- something like 10-0 from both Beach and Legends.
> 
> Do those clubs have flexibility to shift who plays who so they could pit best on best from each club instead of a walkover?


That sucks big apples bro.  Listen, it's about hat trick city bro.  Goals & more goals for the stars.  I think socal is a little lopsided right about now.  You have The Haves, who have it all and then you have The Somes, who have very little.  I could go on and on but I wont.  Heading up for game #3 in a row.  I will let you know how mask are going in silver lakes.


----------



## sdb

Giesbock said:


> Can someone please clarify-
> Legends and Beach are both apparently fulfilling their 1 season commitment to the GA and next season, start with ECNL.
> 
> They’re apparently playing their top team in ECRL and second team in GA.
> 
> But WCFC is playing top team in GA and second team in ECRL...
> 
> I heard WCFC’s ECRL team took a beat down- something like 10-0 from both Beach and Legends.
> 
> Do those clubs have flexibility to shift who plays who so they could pit best on best from each club instead of a walkover?


In 2006 at least WCFC 1st team is GA and 2nd team is ECRL. Not sure about other age groups but think it’s the same.

Beach 1st team is ECRL. The score vs WCFC ECRL wasn’t 10-0. Beach hasn’t moved players between ECRL and GA so far this season. I think they could if they wanted to since each league is run as part of a different parent org. 

I believe that Pats has 1 team playing both GA and ECRL or at least has some players cross-rostered but not sure all players are cross rostered.


----------



## happy9

Giesbock said:


> Can someone please clarify-
> Legends and Beach are both apparently fulfilling their 1 season commitment to the GA and next season, start with ECNL.
> 
> They’re apparently playing their top team in ECRL and second team in GA.
> 
> But WCFC is playing top team in GA and second team in ECRL...
> 
> I heard WCFC’s ECRL team took a beat down- something like 10-0 from both Beach and Legends.
> 
> Do those clubs have flexibility to shift who plays who so they could pit best on best from each club instead of a walkover?


It's kinda like the wild wild west with.  Late summer/early fall the Legends teams traveling to AZ for GA play were the second teams  When they brought teams to AZ for President's Day Tournament, the teams were a mix of ECRL and GA players, mostly ECRL  .. I guess at the end of the day, they are getting their games however and  whenever possible.


----------



## VegasParent

Looks like Colorado Rapids will be in both leagues


----------



## happy9

VegasParent said:


> Looks like Colorado Rapids will be in both leagues


Saw that. Wonder what's driving clubs to place teams into two national platforms.  Not a bad thing I suppose.  I don't really get into which league is better discussion - it's usually which league is better for you and your player..


----------



## VegasParent

happy9 said:


> Saw that. Wonder what's driving clubs to place teams into two national platforms.  Not a bad thing I suppose.  I don't really get into which league is better discussion - *it's usually which league is better for you and your player*..


I agree. It looks like Rapids are doing the same on the boys side with teams in MLS Next and ECNL.


----------



## happy9

VegasParent said:


> I agree. It looks like Rapids are doing the same on the boys side with teams in MLS Next and ECNL.


Good for business I suppose.  Cost seem to be running about the same


----------



## youthsportsugghhh

happy9 said:


> Good for business I suppose.  Cost seem to be running about the same


Top team in ECNL and 2nd in GA affords lots of exposure for more girls?


----------



## Giesbock

I could be wrong but seems like ECNL is playing a lot less, traveling a lot less than GA. Playing = exposure ...?


----------



## Speed

Giesbock said:


> I could be wrong but seems like ECNL is playing a lot less, traveling a lot less than GA. Playing = exposure ...?


I don't know if this is true nationally. But CA for sure.


----------



## happy9

Speed said:


> I don't know if this is true nationally. But CA for sure.


Nationally, both leagues have been playing.  CA ECNL teams are the outliers.


----------



## Speed

happy9 said:


> Nationally, both leagues have been playing.  CA ECNL teams are the outliers.


yep and it sucks and is very irritating.


----------



## Giesbock

As tryouts and team shuffling gets underway, is it confirmed that Beach and Legends are out of GA?  Any other teams moving?

Where are girls Strikers playing?


----------



## GT45

Strikers girls are ECNL. Look at their Instagram. They have their coaching staff and tryouts listed for the ECNL teams for next season.


----------



## crush

Giesbock said:


> As tryouts and team shuffling gets underway, is it confirmed that Beach and Legends are out of GA?  Any other teams moving?
> 
> *Where are girls Strikers playing?*


I believe this weekend @ Great Park bro.  Come on out and check out the matches.  My dd HSS team is traveling to West Covina tonight for first round action of the Ford Focus CIF and if they can pull off the upset, then it will most likely be a Second Round match at home this Friday Night Lights.  The good news in all this mess, the girls are playing soccer.  I know that is the silver lining in all this Gies.  The Naysayers are just want they are.  Look, take everything I say with a grain of salt and a shot of your favorite Tequila.  Whatever floats your boat, just do it.  Rumor mill is so crazy right about now.  For the kids sakes, I hope the adults are honest and transparent so the kids don;t get played again by all the adults looking for what's best for them and their child and not what's best for all the kids.


----------



## timbuck

I know it's not GA - but I think DPL is the 2nd tier for GA teams, right?
I heard that Liverpool (formerly LA Galaxy OC) will have teams in DPL next year.   Will they have GA teams too?


----------



## Speed

timbuck said:


> I know it's not GA - but I think DPL is the 2nd tier for GA teams, right?
> I heard that Liverpool (formerly LA Galaxy OC) will have teams in DPL next year.   Will they have GA teams too?


yes that is correct DPL is second to the GA. make sure there is a good path with that club beyond DPL. We played DPL with LAGOC --but the DPL team in OC was actually out of southbay where the Academy was. SD had its own Academy and DPL. OC didn't. Near the end of our season when all teams were almost filled for the next year we learned that the DPL designation was moving to south bay. It was not handled well and there was only transparency once they were caught and families called them out. We had an amazing team, families and record. LAGOC did not retain one player. Had I understood in the beginning of the structure we would not have gone there because there was no higher level path. There may be now and not sure if your goal is to play GA or DPL I just wanted to share our story if it helps.


----------



## ToonArmy

There were a few clubs let in DPL for this coming year that do not have GA and Liverpool was one of them. Maybe those clubs get GA after a year I am not sure but originally all DPL teams were the B teams to the clubs A teams in DA.


----------



## Desert Hound

timbuck said:


> I know it's not GA - but I think DPL is the 2nd tier for GA teams, right?


Yes. DPL is under GA. For those GA clubs that have DPL, DPL are their 2nd teams.


----------



## VegasParent

Looks like the 2 Vegas teams and Del Sol have been moved to the Mountain West division.






						Members | Girls Academy League
					






					girlsacademyleague.com


----------



## ToonArmy

And no Pats


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

ToonArmy said:


> And no Pats


Socal really should be the trend setter and just make it one league (ECNL + DA).   Add 3 of the 5 remaining clubs based on geography of existing ECNL teams.


----------



## what-happened

VegasParent said:


> Looks like the 2 Vegas teams and Del Sol have been moved to the Mountain West division.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Members | Girls Academy League
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> girlsacademyleague.com


Do you think the GA is abandoning (so to speak) SW conference and building the mountain conference?  Adding teams to the SW conference at a later time?

Interesting move.  From an AZ perspective (and Vegas), this makes travel less convenient, more airplane rides (CO/UT).

We will see how this will be pitched to parents after the fact (tryouts and offers are complete).  I'm pretty sure out of conference games will still be played VS the SW conference.  

Is this a trend that ECNL will follow?  Move AZ and NV into the mountain conference and consolidate the SW conference to just CA teams.  Would make a ton of sense to consolidate.


----------



## what-happened

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Socal really should be the trend setter and just make it one league (ECNL + DA).   Add 3 of the 5 remaining clubs based on geography of existing ECNL teams.


CA really doesn't have a need for an outside league - to your point, CA could create it's own league and still drive the train.  Why travel to AZ and NV when they can play quality games locally.  Have a showcase every now and again - teams from out of state will travel.  The GA has seemed very willing to allow it's teams to compete in out of league games.


----------



## zags77

If you look at the 2nd tier league for GA which is the DPL there seemed to be major expansion this past season.  They added LVSA, Murrieta Surf, FRAM, SM Surf, Santa Barbara , South Valley Surf and Liverpool.  From what I can tell it looks like GA will make an expansion in the SW for the 2022 season.  Looking at the GA map its interesting to see that there is no presence in the OC or south bay/west LA.  Looks like PATS is deciding to play ECRL next season, will be interesting to see if they remain DPL as well.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

zags77 said:


> If you look at the 2nd tier league for GA which is the DPL there seemed to be major expansion this past season.  They added LVSA, Murrieta Surf, FRAM, SM Surf, Santa Barbara , South Valley Surf and Liverpool.  From what I can tell it looks like GA will make an expansion in the SW for the 2022 season.  Looking at the GA map its interesting to see that there is no presence in the OC or south bay/west LA.  Looks like PATS is deciding to play ECRL next season, will be interesting to see if they remain DPL as well.


Personally, I hope they add a North OC team. I know of plenty of great players driving to Irvine to be part of the Slammers/Blues/WC/Strikers.   North OC could also attract players from Anaheim, Norwalk, Cerritos.  Plenty of talented players in this North OC area.


----------



## Goforgoal

Yeah they're clearly looking to reduce travel requirements to and from SoCal. I'd expect to see more SW GA club announcements in the near future. Probably one more club in San Diego (SD Force) and a few LA/Inland Empire/OC clubs. This will also solidify GA as the clear 2nd tier league to ECNL in SoCal (not that it wasn't already). I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, although one has to wonder if a National league is really needed at this level of competition. That said, I do like what GA has been doing as a league and I really hope they grow and see success.


----------



## PracticeWYpreach

Ok so dumb question. Why Couldn't SCDSL Discovery serve this exact same purpose for So Cal. Why does there have to be so many leagues claiming to be the best.


----------



## Desert Hound

GA in the SW looks very weak. Can you run a conference with just 5 teams?


----------



## Messi>CR7

Goforgoal said:


> Yeah they're clearly looking to reduce travel requirements to and from SoCal. I'd expect to see more SW GA club announcements in the near future. Probably one more club in San Diego (SD Force) and a few LA/Inland Empire/OC clubs. This will also solidify GA as the clear 2nd tier league to ECNL in SoCal (not that it wasn't already). I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, although one has to wonder if a National league is really needed at this level of competition. That said, I do like what GA has been doing as a league and I really hope they grow and see success.


They need to have new and existing members sign a 3-year commitment and play the top teams in GA in each age group.  If not, ECNL can easily come in and cherry pick the most successful club(s) again (i.e. Legends, Beach, Utah Royals) if GA starts to have too much momentum.  No GA club would ever turn down an invitation to join ECNL.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Messi>CR7 said:


> They need to have new and existing members sign a 3-year commitment and play the top teams in GA in each age group.  If not, ECNL can easily come in and cherry pick the most successful club(s) again (i.e. Legends, Beach, Utah Royals) if GA starts to have too much momentum.  No GA club would ever turn down an invitation to join ECNL.


The end game for Beach and Legends was always ECNL, even prior to DA.  These 2 clubs were held out by other Member clubs in the area so when US Soccer came around with GDA, it was a no brainer for these clubs.  

ECNL really didn’t cheery pick, rather they honored a commitment they made to Clubs that were willing to make a sacrifice to put their Top Teams in their 2nd Tier League.


----------



## zags77

This seems like a strange one, I know nothing about the program but the GA has added a 6th member for the 2021-2022 for the SW conference, Murrieta Surf.....









						Murrieta Surf Joins the Girls Academy (GA)
					

MURRIETA, CA (7th June, 2021) – Murrieta Surf is proud to announce the invitation into the Girls Academy (GA) beginning for the 2021-22 season.  It is both an honor and a privilege for Murrieta Surf to join the very best clubs from around the nation and participate in the leading youth development




					murrietasurf.com


----------



## Goforgoal

zags77 said:


> This seems like a strange one, I know nothing about the program but the GA has added a 6th member for the 2021-2022 for the SW conference, Murrieta Surf.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murrieta Surf Joins the Girls Academy (GA)
> 
> 
> MURRIETA, CA (7th June, 2021) – Murrieta Surf is proud to announce the invitation into the Girls Academy (GA) beginning for the 2021-22 season.  It is both an honor and a privilege for Murrieta Surf to join the very best clubs from around the nation and participate in the leading youth development
> 
> 
> 
> 
> murrietasurf.com


I'm not sure why you think it's strange. The GA has holes to fill in the SW with the conference reshuffling and I guessed Murrieta Surf would be one of the clubs added. It makes sense geographically. I think SD Force is a likely addition as well, although this would make less geographic sense with SDSC literally sharing the one of their practice facilities. These club announcements likely won't blow anyone's minds but it is what it is at this point.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

Goforgoal said:


> I'm not sure why you think it's strange. The GA has holes to fill in the SW with the conference reshuffling and I guessed Murrieta Surf would be one of the clubs added. It makes sense geographically. I think SD Force is a likely addition as well, although this would make less geographic sense with SDSC literally sharing the one of their practice facilities. These club announcements likely won't blow anyone's minds but it is what it is at this point.



This is a great move for GA.  They have to start somewhere but expansion is critical for them to survive.   That area is growing significantly and they will have a pipeline for kids looking for a challenge.    They need a couple of more clubs in other  areas to fill the geographic gap.  As an example, we see so many kids from North OC driving to the great park to be part of the ECNL program.


----------



## Carlsbad7

SoccerFan4Life said:


> This is a great move for GA.  They have to start somewhere but expansion is critical for them to survive.   That area is growing significantly and they will have a pipeline for kids looking for a challenge.    They need a couple of more clubs in other  areas to fill the geographic gap.  As an example, we see so many kids from North OC driving to the great park to be part of the ECNL program.


I don't know if its "critical" for GA to bring on a bunch of teams to survive. Quantity and Quality you need a mix of both. 

But, I'm sure the GA bean counters prefer Quantity over Quality.


----------



## dad4

Carlsbad7 said:


> I don't know if its "critical" for GA to bring on a bunch of teams to survive. Quantity and Quality you need a mix of both.
> 
> But, I'm sure the GA bean counters prefer Quantity over Quality.


No reason for the snub.  GA looked at things and decided that critical mass and shorter travel are important.  ECNL made the same call.  They're both right.


----------



## Bethsoccer

We have several friends that will be heading the 2021 GA Summer Showcase this month.  

It should be interesting.......


----------



## Giesbock

What happens after the June 29 Quarterfinals?


----------



## what-happened

Giesbock said:


> What happens after the June 29 Quarterfinals?


I believe the next leg is Finals in Seattle - July.


----------



## VegasParent

what-happened said:


> I believe the next leg is Finals in Seattle - July.


Finals were moved to North Carolina


----------



## Calikid

My DD plays in the GA and we have had a very nice expiernece. Florida was fantastic and the girls and the parents had a great time! We moved form ECNL to GA because my daughter wanted to play for a specific coach. Best move we have ever made!


----------



## what-happened

Calikid said:


> My DD plays in the GA and we have had a very nice expiernece. Florida was fantastic and the girls and the parents had a great time! We moved form ECNL to GA because my daughter wanted to play for a specific coach. Best move we have ever made!


Even though the jury is still out on the GA, their first year went as well as it could.  Their hasn't been a disruption in access to NCAA/YNT coaches/scouts for those top clubs that remained in the GA.  The newer clubs will attract talent - not enough room in ECNL for all of the talent to consolidate. The administration of the league has been efficient and their hiring of key corporate positions has been done deliberately and strategically. 

Many parents knowingly took the "risk" and stayed in clubs that were not allowed back into ECNL.  In AZ specifically, arguably the best girl's club, retained  most of their players, even with another club being let back in to ECNL.  We will see what happens in a few years, as players age out and go on about their way. 

In a state like AZ, two leagues and 4 teams are too many and dilutes the talent.  Parents know this and will likely revert to going with coaches with known results VS being attracted to leagues.  Of course, coaches will tout their league as the best league.  ECNL clubs in AZ will leverage their access to CA teams as the reason to join ECNL, which is smart.  The other club will have to rely on their YNT/D1 placement success and known coaching commodities.

The joy of youth soccer.  Pay to play is such a distraction and likely causes a lot of stress and anxiety for those involved.  Great for pharma companies.


----------



## SoccerLocker

what-happened said:


> In AZ specifically, arguably the best girl's club, retained  most of their players, even with another club being let back in to ECNL.  We will see what happens in a few years, as players age out and go on about their way.


Ok, I'll bite.  How did that "arguably best girls club" who's staying in GA, finish this year:

08 9th
07 4th
06 5th
05 3rd
04 4th
03 3rd

How did "another club" who's moving to ECNL finish in GA this year:

08 1st
07 1st
06 6th
05 1st
04 1st
03 2nd

Best of luck to you and your DD, and the extra unnecessary travel next year.  If you think players aren't going to move to ECNL clubs in AZ, I have a dog based coin to sell you...


----------



## what-happened

SoccerLocker said:


> Ok, I'll bite.  How did that "arguably best girls club" who's staying in GA, finish this year:
> 
> 08 9th
> 07 4th
> 06 5th
> 05 3rd
> 04 4th
> 03 3rd
> 
> How did "another club" who's moving to ECNL finish in GA this year:
> 
> 08 1st
> 07 1st
> 06 6th
> 05 1st
> 04 1st
> 03 2nd
> 
> Best of luck to you and your DD, and the extra unnecessary travel next year.  If you think players aren't going to move to ECNL clubs in AZ, I have a dog based coin to sell you...


My DD is aging out, moving on to the next level. My travel will consist of plane rides to home games, hopefully. Plenty of nuance in your post. I get it, based on points.  What's wrong with the dog based coins? I appreciate your wit, it's refreshing. 

08 - way too young to determine what is going on.  
07 - 1 win (for the other club) 2nd game tie
06 -  1 win for arguable club, 1 tie: both games completely dominated by arguable club
05 - 1 tie, one blowout for arguable club
04 - Arguable club's team has been in rehab for 3 yrs
03 - Split the season

5 YNT players on the Arguable 06 team, 1 on the 05 and 1 on the 02/03.  Plenty of girls moving on to P5 schools across the country. Utah Royals have their contingent of YNT and D1 players.

By the way, I'm not casting shade on Utah Royals.  They are a much improved club that deserve their spot in ECNL and earned it by their performance in the GA.  They will be the best AZ team in ECNL.  If you know the history of the "other club" you would know that it's likely they would not have been asked back into ECNL even if their GA season had been perfect  You probably already know this though.  Whatever bridge they burned isn't going to be rebuilt.

Yes, travel is going to be different.  CO and Utah may present transportation problems to some, maybe.  NM and NV will not.  In spite of the conference move, they still managed to pull players from other clubs during the tryout season.  Its' all about the coaches.  You will argue that it's about leagues.  That argument can go on forever.  Adjourn after next season to see how it plays out.


----------



## soccermom74

what-happened said:


> Even though the jury is still out on the GA, their first year went as well as it could.  Their hasn't been a disruption in access to NCAA/YNT coaches/scouts for those top clubs that remained in the GA.  The newer clubs will attract talent - not enough room in ECNL for all of the talent to consolidate. The administration of the league has been efficient and their hiring of key corporate positions has been done deliberately and strategically.
> 
> Many parents knowingly took the "risk" and stayed in clubs that were not allowed back into ECNL.  In AZ specifically, arguably the best girl's club, retained  most of their players, even with another club being let back in to ECNL.  We will see what happens in a few years, as players age out and go on about their way.
> 
> In a state like AZ, two leagues and 4 teams are too many and dilutes the talent.  Parents know this and will likely revert to going with coaches with known results VS being attracted to leagues.  Of course, coaches will tout their league as the best league.  ECNL clubs in AZ will leverage their access to CA teams as the reason to join ECNL, which is smart.  The other club will have to rely on their YNT/D1 placement success and known coaching commodities.
> 
> The joy of youth soccer.  Pay to play is such a distraction and likely causes a lot of stress and anxiety for those involved.  Great for pharma companies.


SC DelSol is definitely not the best club in AZ.  Several years ago they were clearly the best in AZ.  They are still placing players in good programs, but the teams are slipping.  They could not even field a DPL team at the 08 age, and their pre GA teams were mediocre in AZ league play.  Not to mention where their GA teams finished in the standings.


----------



## SoccerLocker

what-happened said:


> Best of luck to your DD.  That is fortunate timing.  For any younger team, it's an issue.
> 
> They have always been a recruitment model, with no youth program to draw from.  So now, they have to convince players to move clubs to travel  UT, NM, NV and CO against what's perceived to be 2nd tier competition.  That's going to be quite a sales job.  They are already at paper thin rosters, with no DPL strength to fall back on.  Current results have been a canary in the coal mine.  Any injuries and you stop winning.  How long will parents want to stick that out?
> 
> P5 commitments have slowed dramatically.  Yes, there were some who committed as freshmen under the old rules, and I don't fault those for sticking around, but it's been largely quiet since.
> 
> They do have 1 team (06) that is arguably the best.  It's a very thin age group, and they will have to keep them together.
> 
> They did have 2 players make the virtual camps for 05s and older, but none made it beyond. Only 3 05s and 2 04s made it beyond, and all at other (ECNL) clubs.
> 
> How long can you lean on: Back in the day one of our coaches who hasn't coached in years trained senior USWNT players when there was no competition to speak of?  We will find out.


----------



## what-happened

soccermom74 said:


> SC DelSol is definitely not the best club in AZ.  Several years ago they were clearly the best in AZ.  They are still placing players in good programs, but the teams are slipping.  They could not even field a DPL team at the 08 age, and their pre GA teams were mediocre in AZ league play.  Not to mention where their GA teams finished in the standings.



I'm no here to argue on behalf of Del Sol.  I'll leave it up to you and others to cast shade on clubs and coaches. Unusual season for all and many teams were injury plagued, which was a common theme across all clubs in AZ.  Del Sol can be polarizing and can generate plenty of hate mail.  

My oldest will age out after a very good run with them and will play at the next level at a P5 program.  My youngest played for them for years and wasn't selected for a DA team.  We moved her to another club and league where she did make the cut.  That team isn't nearly as good as where she came from and struggles at best against lower table teams.

Many parents get caught up in wins/losses at the younger age groups, many don't.  Your points about DPL and AZ league play are valid.  It's not their strength and their model.  Their focus is always on their platform teams and recruiting away from other clubs, finding players where no one else is looking.

I guess I don't understand your downplaying of where they finished in the standings - 4 of the 6 teams finished in the top 5, 2 in the top 3. 

I agree their teams may be slipping a bit, but so are all teams in AZ.  It's a result of too many teams and too many leagues.  It's bound to happen and it doesn't favor our players.  We don't have the population to feed that many teams and leagues.  Money drives the train and parents feed that train with their ego.  It's unfortunate.


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## Desert Hound

SoccerLocker said:


> Ok, I'll bite.  How did that "arguably best girls club" who's staying in GA, finish this year:
> 
> 08 9th
> 07 4th
> 06 5th
> 05 3rd
> 04 4th
> 03 3rd
> 
> How did "another club" who's moving to ECNL finish in GA this year:
> 
> 08 1st
> 07 1st
> 06 6th
> 05 1st
> 04 1st
> 03 2nd
> 
> Best of luck to you and your DD, and the extra unnecessary travel next year.  If you think players aren't going to move to ECNL clubs in AZ, I have a dog based coin to sell you...


You beat me to the punch. Of the 2 clubs in GA in AZ this year, the better club went back to ECNL. To be honest Royals are probably the best club out of the ECNL/GA clubs in AZ. 

del Sol will have issues going forward at the younger ages coming in.

Parents and kids know in the SW ECNL is the stronger option. So they will go to the 3 ECNL clubs first.

del Sol also has the problem that now they are not in the SW playing So Cal teams. They are offering competition vs NM, NV, CO and UT. That competition isn't as good. The other issue? The travel for them got a lot worse considering they now have to fly to games in UT and CO.

All that adds up to them being option 4 out of the 4 clubs offering ECNL or GA.


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## what-happened

SoccerLocker said:


> Best of luck to your DD. That is fortunate timing. For any younger team, it's an issue.
> 
> They have always been a recruitment model, with no youth program to draw from. So now, they have to convince players to move clubs to travel UT, NM, NV and CO against what's perceived to be 2nd tier competition. That's going to be quite a sales job. They are already at paper thin rosters, with no DPL strength to fall back on. Current results have been a canary in the coal mine. Any injuries and you stop winning. How long will parents want to stick that out?
> 
> P5 commitments have slowed dramatically. Yes, there were some who committed as freshmen under the old rules, and I don't fault those for sticking around, but it's been largely quiet since.
> 
> They do have 1 team (06) that is arguably the best. It's a very thin age group, and they will have to keep them together.
> 
> They did have 2 players make the virtual camps for 05s and older, but none made it beyond. Only 3 05s and 2 04s made it beyond, and all at other (ECNL) clubs.
> 
> How long can you lean on: Back in the day one of our coaches who hasn't coached in years trained senior USWNT players when there was no competition to speak of? We will find out.


All valid points.  

They've always driven the recruitment train.  The GA has to prove they are a platform that can place girls, which it appears it's going to do.  They have their pitch ready to go, just like the other clubs do.  They've always ran thin rosters in order to generate playing time and have never relied on DPL/2nd teams as backfill.  They've always relied on moving talented players up from the younger teams.  Sometimes for development, often times to fill holes until they can weather the injury storm.  Parents are fickle.  When injuries occur, complain about not having a bigger roster.  When everyone is healthy, complain about big rosters and less playing time.  15 seems to be the magic number but many parents still complain. 

This year has been an injury explosion for many of the teams (and has been an issue for the other top clubs in AZ).  They've had players that have missed almost all of the season and MAY early next season. Injuries are always the wildcard.  How a club manages them is important to parents.

The 05s will set the stage for future results.  Where they go will help/hurt recruitment.  Talented team but small this year due to injuries.  The best 05 team in the state (in head to head Utah Royals).  Plenty of buzz around them concerning which schools are looking at them and where they will go.  

The 06s are very talented, with 3 YNT players (who went to Chula Vista last FEB) and 2 more who were invited to the virtual camp this year.  They've had their injuries this year and may now be healthy.  Rumor is they are sitting on an 18 player roster after tryouts, with some players coming over from other league teams.  18 players is larger than normal so who knows what the truth really is.

How long can they lean on the past?  As long as other clubs do I guess.  As long as the Bulls can lean on Phil and Michael.  Legacy is a thing.

At the end of the day, go where your player can play and where she is happiest.  Avoid the inevitable youth sports chaos and politics, put your chair by the corner flag and enjoy the time, it passes quickly.


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## what-happened

Desert Hound said:


> You beat me to the punch. Of the 2 clubs in GA in AZ this year, the better club went back to ECNL. To be honest Royals are probably the best club out of the ECNL/GA clubs in AZ.
> 
> del Sol will have issues going forward at the younger ages coming in.
> 
> Parents and kids know in the SW ECNL is the stronger option. So they will go to the 3 ECNL clubs first.
> 
> del Sol also has the problem that now they are not in the SW playing So Cal teams. They are offering competition vs NM, NV, CO and UT. That competition isn't as good. The other issue? The travel for them got a lot worse considering they now have to fly to games in UT and CO.
> 
> All that adds up to them being option 4 out of the 4 clubs offering ECNL or GA.


Let's hope they have their sales pitch together.  Honestly, many are flying now but not having the option to drive is not a good thing.  This new travel didn't deter parents from coming over after tryouts.  It may drive them out once they put it into practice for one season.

Royals are in the best position for sure.


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## Desert Hound

what-happened said:


> It's not their strength and their model. Their focus is always on their platform teams and recruiting away from other clubs, finding players where no one else is


This is what they did. 

When they had ECNL it was just del Sol and Sereno. Sereno had gotten lazy about recruiting. del Sol wasn't. They offered the top league. At the age when kids could start ECNL, the best players moved to del Sol. It was easy pickings for them. They had the best platform. 

So for years they had the best teams in AZ. They got comfy with that arrangement. They on the girls sides don't have a lot of state teams anymore and the ones that they do are not good. They have a very small rec program. 

Things started to change when Sereno became RSL/Royals and merged with Legacy and some other clubs in the Valley. Suddenly not all the best players were going to del Sol. Then when Rising and Arsenal got ECNL things changed. Rising usually has some of the best girls teams at the younger ages. The problem they always had was when those kids were old enough to play in ECNL the best one left for del Sol. With Rising having ECNL that pipeline is gone. With RSL/Royals having ECNL that pipeline is gone. Same with Arsenal. And those 3 clubs are now very actively recruiting non ECNL clubs...ie places where del Sol used to be the only game in town. 


So they have a problem going forward. They wont get the pick of the litter anymore like they used to a few years ago. They now offer a league that parents and players know isn't as good in the SW area as ECNL. Then factor in travel...and they have problems. 

People talk about coaching, etc. If del Sol had never had ECNL/DA/GA in the past, the vast vast majority of the players they had would not have moved over. The reality is that parents/kids prioritize leagues over coaching. We can all agree that a good coach is vital. But the reality is league takes priority for most people. That is simply just a fact. What del Sol is offering vs the other 3 ECNL clubs is not as good of an option marketing wise.


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## crush

Desert Hound said:


> This is what they did.
> 
> When they had ECNL it was just del Sol and Sereno. Sereno had gotten lazy about recruiting. del Sol wasn't. They offered the top league. At the age when kids could start ECNL, the best players moved to del Sol. It was easy pickings for them. They had the best platform.
> 
> So for years they had the best teams in AZ. They got comfy with that arrangement. They on the girls sides don't have a lot of state teams anymore and the ones that they do are not good. They have a very small rec program.
> 
> Things started to change when Sereno became RSL/Royals and merged with Legacy and some other clubs in the Valley. Suddenly not all the best players were going to del Sol. Then when Rising and Arsenal got ECNL things changed. Rising usually has some of the best girls teams at the younger ages. The problem they always had was when those kids were old enough to play in ECNL the best one left for del Sol. With Rising having ECNL that pipeline is gone. With RSL/Royals having ECNL that pipeline is gone. Same with Arsenal. And those 3 clubs are now very actively recruiting non ECNL clubs...ie places where del Sol used to be the only game in town.
> 
> 
> So they have a problem going forward. They wont get the pick of the litter anymore like they used to a few years ago. They now offer a league that parents and players know isn't as good in the SW area as ECNL. Then factor in travel...and they have problems.
> 
> People talk about coaching, etc. If del Sol had never had ECNL/DA/GA in the past, the vast vast majority of the players they had would not have moved over. The reality is that parents/kids prioritize leagues over coaching. We can all agree that a good coach is vital. But the reality is league takes priority for most people. That is simply just a fact. What del Sol is offering vs the other 3 ECNL clubs is not as good of an option marketing wise.


Great AZ takes Hound.  It's not like Docs don't sell parents on the "Elitistness" of their league and why their league is the true and only pathway to greatness.  When my dd was 10, Blackhawks were the top team in AZ, hands down.  They played really good soccer.


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## what-happened

Desert Hound said:


> This is what they did.
> 
> When they had ECNL it was just del Sol and Sereno. Sereno had gotten lazy about recruiting. del Sol wasn't. They offered the top league. At the age when kids could start ECNL, the best players moved to del Sol. It was easy pickings for them. They had the best platform.
> 
> So for years they had the best teams in AZ. They got comfy with that arrangement. They on the girls sides don't have a lot of state teams anymore and the ones that they do are not good. They have a very small rec program.
> 
> Things started to change when Sereno became RSL/Royals and merged with Legacy and some other clubs in the Valley. Suddenly not all the best players were going to del Sol. Then when Rising and Arsenal got ECNL things changed. Rising usually has some of the best girls teams at the younger ages. The problem they always had was when those kids were old enough to play in ECNL the best one left for del Sol. With Rising having ECNL that pipeline is gone. With RSL/Royals having ECNL that pipeline is gone. Same with Arsenal. And those 3 clubs are now very actively recruiting non ECNL clubs...ie places where del Sol used to be the only game in town.
> 
> 
> So they have a problem going forward. They wont get the pick of the litter anymore like they used to a few years ago. They now offer a league that parents and players know isn't as good in the SW area as ECNL. Then factor in travel...and they have problems.
> 
> People talk about coaching, etc. If del Sol had never had ECNL/DA/GA in the past, the vast vast majority of the players they had would not have moved over. The reality is that parents/kids prioritize leagues over coaching. We can all agree that a good coach is vital. But the reality is league takes priority for most people. That is simply just a fact. What del Sol is offering vs the other 3 ECNL clubs is not as good of an option marketing wise.


Thanks for the analysis.  At the end of the day, none of this is good for clubs in AZ but great for club pockets.  I've been around for a while - almost too long and know the story well.  What I do know is that things change in a heart beat.  This year the GA re-aligns conferences based on the desire of one of their top markets.  Next year could happen in ECNL.  The rumblings are getting louder in CA.  Why travel to AZ to play 3 teams, when we have teams down the street.   Allow a few more teams in and ECNL re-aligns as well.  The writing is on the wall.  

Arsenal is in the worst position.  They've lost a top player here and there.  

I do wish them all luck.  It's unfortunate that club/league greed gets in the way of providing a true top platform for our players.


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## what-happened

crush said:


> Great AZ takes Hound.  It's not like Docs don't sell parents on the "Elitistness" of their league and why their league is the true and only pathway to greatness.  When my dd was 10, Blackhawks were the top team in AZ, hands down.  They played really good soccer.


oh come on


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## Desert Hound

what-happened said:


> Arsenal is in the worst position. They've lost a top player here and there.


I think Arsenal is in a spot to be in a good position in the next 10 yrs. Why? The Valley is pushing further and further east. They will benefit from it.

That said out of the 3 clubs in ECNL, they are in the weakest position due to their location now.z

By the way, there are a lot of people that don't like del Sol for whatever reason. I am not one of those people.


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## what-happened

Desert Hound said:


> I think Arsenal is in a spot to be in a good position in the next 10 yrs. Why? The Valley is pushing further and further east. They will benefit from it.
> 
> That said out of the 3 clubs in ECNL, they are in the weakest position due to their location now.z
> 
> By the way, there are a lot of people that don't like del Sol for whatever reason. I am not one of those people.


Sounds like good logic.  Expansion is occurring across the Valley but the east side seems to be a few a few steps ahead.  The northwest valley will expand quickly once the Semi Conductor plant comes to fruition (and all of its supporting entities).

Del Sol isn't liked by many.  A few things come to mind - 1.  attitude of their way is THE way 2.  They stick to their style of play.  It's hard to be consistent in their style at the younger age groups which means they lose more than they win.  3.  They are not afraid of having the tough conversation in regards to the development/talent of your player.   This turns sensitive parents away, attracts others.  They've never changed and I don't think they will.  I can appreciate their approach - don't mind it at all.  Good thing we have choices I suppose.

They have a knack for finding players in corners of the valley that others haven't and then develop them.  Their 05/06 teams are full of those types of players.  I think you stated that other clubs are starting to do the same. Of note, the size of clubs like RSL and Rising also means that talent on 2nd teams get lost in the salad.  As you well know, not much connection between ECRL/DPL teams and top teams.  Del Sol has had success this year tapping into that.  Plenty of talent in RSL, they are enormous.  One or two tryouts for a top team isn't usually enough.  Extended invites to practices seems to be the key to ID talent.


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## Desert Hound

what-happened said:


> As you well know, not much connection between ECRL/DPL teams and top teams.


The clubs rarely pull up from the ECRL/DPL teams. It does happen...but not to the extent the clubs advertise it.

What seems to happen is the other clubs look and pull from those teams. So it is beneficial in the sense that playing on those teams can mean an offer from another club.


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## GT45

I have enjoyed reading your discussion on the AZ club soccer landscape. I am curious where the better Tucson players play? They do not have GA or ECNL, correct?


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## SoccerLocker

They can play with a local team that plays in state league or drive to Phoenix.  Same with Flagstaff/Prescott players.


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## what-happened

GT45 said:


> I have enjoyed reading your discussion on the AZ club soccer landscape. I am curious where the better Tucson players play? They do not have GA or ECNL, correct?


Great question.  I know families that commute 3 times a week to practice in phoenix  from Tucson and Flagstaff.  Don't know any prescott players.

FC Tucson is a great club, well staffed and run.  Some age groups do very well in State League (the 06s come to mind).  I wonder if getting DPL and likely elevation to GA will keep some talent home.  

On a more extreme scale, both Del Sol and RSL routinely had part time players coming in from out of state (NV/NM).  Talented players that were happy to get the opportunity to play at a higher level, gain exposure, etc..  With the GA expanding to ABQ and in Vegas, that pipeline will close - which is great for those communities.


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## what-happened

Desert Hound said:


> The clubs rarely pull up from the ECRL/DPL teams. It does happen...but not to the extent the clubs advertise it.
> 
> What seems to happen is the other clubs look and pull from those teams. So it is beneficial in the sense that playing on those teams can mean an offer from another club.


No doubt.   

Scouting/recruiting the ECRL/DPL teams is definitely happening.  ECRL expansion out west by Rising has identified plenty of talent.  Del Sol has been first to the watering hole this time around.  Maybe Rising figures it out and doesn't let that happen next go around.  It's interesting to say the least.  More girls getting opportunities where there wasn't in the past.  I suppose in a sense, the DPL/ECRL theory can work, just not in house.


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## TucsonKeeperDad

what-happened said:


> Great question.  I know families that commute 3 times a week to practice in phoenix  from Tucson and Flagstaff.  Don't know any prescott players.
> 
> FC Tucson is a great club, well staffed and run.  Some age groups do very well in State League (the 06s come to mind).  I wonder if getting DPL and likely elevation to GA will keep some talent home.
> 
> On a more extreme scale, both Del Sol and RSL routinely had part time players coming in from out of state (NV/NM).  Talented players that were happy to get the opportunity to play at a higher level, gain exposure, etc..  With the GA expanding to ABQ and in Vegas, that pipeline will close - which is great for those communities.


My dd plays for RSL Southern Arizona (Tucson) and the 06 and 08 teams are doing very well. Both won state cup. Like FC Tucson ( who the 06’s beat in the final 3-0) Rsl Tucson is also joining DPL next season. For smaller clubs that don’t have GA or ECNL,  DPL should be an excellent opportunity To showcase their teams. And for Tucson players , maybe they don’t have to hike to the Phoenix area to play on the other letter teams.


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