# Just thinking out loud....



## KONI (Dec 2, 2017)

With the craziness and absurdity that tryouts and this time of year brings to club soccer I started to day dream a little and thought that perhaps this scenario just might work....state cup ends and everyone is free from club agreements....two weeks of tryouts ensue in which all players from a birth year tryout. Coaches from those age groups from every club come to this mass tryout and scout players...kinda like a college combine if you will...coaches have players info and make offers to whomever they want...at the end of two weeks would be a signing week in which all players would then make a decision and commit to the club they would like to play for....just a thought...


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## Josep (Dec 2, 2017)

That would be great however:

1. Players play state cup, they play national cup, and they don't play at all.  It's hard to have a blanket evaluation session as these events play out over the course of weeks and months (Jan-April).   You also have ECNL and DA teams that don't participate in National Cup.  
2. From a coach's perspective, if they are evaluating talent, the last thing they want is that unfound player delivered to every other coach.
3. From a club's perspective, you can't have 12-25 different clubs in one place - that's too much propaganda about how great their club is, how much your kid will benefit, and why you have to sign with them now messaging.  That's a recipe for spontaneous combustion.
4. From a player's perspective, why take your kid to a huge tryout.  Those are a waste of time.  For existing teams, the clubs know which kids they are cutting and which kids they are signing.  Go to a practice, and work in with the team.  It can be a one night trial that lasts into longer.


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## CaliKlines (Dec 3, 2017)

And it’s not just about the player trying out for the club...it is also about the player picking a team/club/coach that plays the way she wants to learn.


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## full90 (Dec 3, 2017)

The tryouts and shifting that happens during state cup/national cup is a shame. Not sure if there is a solution, but it sure stinks.


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## Eagle33 (Dec 4, 2017)

full90 said:


> The tryouts and shifting that happens during state cup/national cup is a shame. Not sure if there is a solution, but it sure stinks.


Why is it a shame? IMO players should be free to leave whenever they want. This is youth soccer. If a player is not happy with current team or just want to leave to a better team, why he/she should continue to play? Whoever came up with transfer window after Thanksgiving is brilliant. Fall season is over - time to move on if needed.


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## MWN (Dec 4, 2017)

KONI said:


> With the craziness and absurdity that tryouts and this time of year brings to club soccer I started to day dream a little and thought that perhaps this scenario just might work....state cup ends and everyone is free from club agreements....two weeks of tryouts ensue in which all players from a birth year tryout. Coaches from those age groups from every club come to this mass tryout and scout players...kinda like a college combine if you will...coaches have players info and make offers to whomever they want...at the end of two weeks would be a signing week in which all players would then make a decision and commit to the club they would like to play for....just a thought...


As was pointed out, your "dream" has a few flaws:

"mass" tryouts require a "massive" complex to accommodate all those kids.  Cal South runs from San Luis Obispo/Bakersfield to the Mexican border, so you would likely need multiple regional massive complexes.  While you can hold tryouts for youngers and olders, you also have a problem with composite age groups.

State Cup ends for various age groups at different times with winning President Cup teams moving on the Regionals and Nationals, finishing up June 17th.  National Cup begins after State Cup with winning teams moving on to the Regionals and National Cup Finals (July 29, 2018).

When it comes to programs and teams, most established clubs are only looking for a few players and tryouts are just a formality for the returning players who are known.  When regard to new teams, coaches maybe looking for a whole new team.

Its may sound like a nice dream from a "customer" point of view, but it would be a logistic nightmare from a club/team point of view.  Giving those teams that advance to National Finals a competitive disadvantage, unless you waited until August to start tryouts.


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## timbuck (Dec 4, 2017)

All of the various dates makes things really complicated.  I think the team shuffle before state cup is terrible.  
Let tryouts happen as they do now. But make it so that clubs can't extend formal offers until March.  And give players a 2 week window to sign.


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## MWN (Dec 4, 2017)

If we can tweak your dream from a mass tryout to a regional COMBINE, we might be getting closer to a more friendly event.  Consider a "combine" where players are put through various drills and performance tests to objectively measure physical (quickness, speed, ball skills, etc.) and mental qualities.  These players would go into a database and be scored/graded.  Clubs would be in a better position at tryouts to compete over players and/or to put players into flights/levels that are commensurate with their grade.  Having a grade to compare against the other players in the region would also help players/parents to understand where their kid ranks against others and how that kid is progressing over the years.  By grading the players through objective tests you create a baseline and allow the clubs/parents to then use subjective standards to form teams based on coaching philosophy, etc.

Tryouts would then be much more meaningful because clubs could enter tryouts knowing a player has certain baseline attributes and parents would know that their "73.5" kid is wasting their time trying out for a team where the average grade is 95.2.


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## 46n2 (Dec 4, 2017)

MWN said:


> If we can tweak your dream from a mass tryout to a regional COMBINE, we might be getting closer to a more friendly event.  Consider a "combine" where players are put through various drills and performance tests to objectively measure physical (quickness, speed, ball skills, etc.) and mental qualities.  These players would go into a database and be scored/graded.  Clubs would be in a better position at tryouts to compete over players and/or to put players into flights/levels that are commensurate with their grade.  Having a grade to compare against the other players in the region would also help players/parents to understand where their kid ranks against others and how that kid is progressing over the years.  By grading the players through objective tests you create a baseline and allow the clubs/parents to then use subjective standards to form teams based on coaching philosophy, etc.
> 
> Tryouts would then be much more meaningful because clubs could enter tryouts knowing a player has certain baseline attributes and parents would know that their "73.5" kid is wasting their time trying out for a team where the average grade is 95.2.


I think you got something here!!


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## Grace T. (Dec 4, 2017)

MWN said:


> If we can tweak your dream from a mass tryout to a regional COMBINE, we might be getting closer to a more friendly event.  Consider a "combine" where players are put through various drills and performance tests to objectively measure physical (quickness, speed, ball skills, etc.) and mental qualities.  These players would go into a database and be scored/graded.  Clubs would be in a better position at tryouts to compete over players and/or to put players into flights/levels that are commensurate with their grade.  Having a grade to compare against the other players in the region would also help players/parents to understand where their kid ranks against others and how that kid is progressing over the years.  By grading the players through objective tests you create a baseline and allow the clubs/parents to then use subjective standards to form teams based on coaching philosophy, etc.
> 
> Tryouts would then be much more meaningful because clubs could enter tryouts knowing a player has certain baseline attributes and parents would know that their "73.5" kid is wasting their time trying out for a team where the average grade is 95.2.


I love this idea, but I don't think it's very practical particularly if you want an overall score.  I point out it would take multiple days and stations to get comprehensive measures.  When people do these (like some AYSO regions, EXTRAs tryouts, or B&G Soccer), given the limited time, it often winds up biasing towards: 1) the striker position, 2) the most athletic athletes (and not necessarily the best soccer players), and 3) factors outside of the test (coaches who ID or had separate tryouts anyway, but regardless of the score, use factors outside of the test to select the team).    Think of the various skills in the various positions and the various different requirements (both physical and mental skills as well as physical attributes....who cares if the striker can high catch, who cares if the goalkeeper can shoot).  The ratings would have to break down by position, and you'd have to either measure all the soccer skills (which is a very long list) or come up with an effective blend for each position if you want an overall score (are running suicides more important than first touch, for example). They used to do this a lot in soccer leagues a lot when I was growing up (my own soccer league did this)...it favored the fastest and biggest kids, but I thought we were trying to get away from that in soccer?


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## MWN (Dec 4, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> I love this idea, but I don't think it's very practical particularly if you want an overall score.  I point out it would take multiple days and stations to get comprehensive measures.  When people do these (like some AYSO regions, EXTRAs tryouts, or B&G Soccer), given the limited time, it often winds up biasing towards: 1) the striker position, 2) the most athletic athletes (and not necessarily the best soccer players), and 3) factors outside of the test (coaches who ID or had separate tryouts anyway, but regardless of the score, use factors outside of the test to select the team).    Think of the various skills in the various positions and the various different requirements (both physical and mental skills as well as physical attributes....who cares if the striker can high catch, who cares if the goalkeeper can shoot).  The ratings would have to break down by position, and you'd have to either measure all the soccer skills (which is a very long list) or come up with an effective blend for each position if you want an overall score (are running suicides more important than first touch, for example). They used to do this a lot in soccer leagues a lot when I was growing up (my own soccer league did this)...it favored the fastest and biggest kids, but I thought we were trying to get away from that in soccer?


The key is to just have some objective tests that form a baseline  10, 20 and 40 times, lateral movement times, etc.  I think the only position where different data set is needed is GK.  Teams/coaches would weight the various times differently depending on the position.  Thus, more emphasis on a striker's straight away speed than a defender or mid, which would emphasize lateral movement and quickness.   The goal here would simply be to help players/parents and clubs/teams lump the various talent into the appropriate bucket so development and the competitive landscape is better fine tuned, thereby making tryouts more productive for all.  Most club tryouts involve many of these same aspects through the subjective lens of the coaching staff/DOC, but are not standardized and the data not shared.

Will it happen?  Not without an edict from US Soccer to the Youth Affiliates (AYSO, USYS, US Club Soccer, etc.), which then makes the edict to the Regional and State Associations (Cal South), which then makes the edict to the Affiliate Clubs, etc.


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## Striker17 (Dec 4, 2017)

Uh I have never been at any club tryout where any of the aforementioned have been used or discussed hence the state of soccer.
Never
Not once.
No sprints
No technical stations 
Nope nope nope

I preface this with this is for girls. As far as hoys I have never not been at any tryout for any sport any of my boys have played without a 40, vertical, etc being tested. Funny how that works


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