# Dear CalSouth, time to implement your  own rules



## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 20, 2017)

I was pleased to see when CalSouth changed the format for the younger age groups to smaller fields and fewer players.   http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/Top_Stories/2016/USSF_SSG_Chart_080416.pdf?rev=32A7

However, after 2 years of watching my young kids play in small fields one week and large fields the next week, I am now extremely disappointed with this rule.   CalSouth, you owe it to the parents and coaches to come up with a deadline to have all clubs meet the field requirements needed to play 7 v 7.       One week I see teams playing great soccer and then the following week they play in large fields and it's back to kickball.        
If anyone has connections with a CalSouth Board Member, please send this over and if you feel the same way, let them know that it's time to make changes.


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## Daniel Miller (Oct 20, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I was pleased to see when CalSouth changed the format for the younger age groups to smaller fields and fewer players.   http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/Top_Stories/2016/USSF_SSG_Chart_080416.pdf?rev=32A7
> 
> However, after 2 years of watching my young kids play in small fields one week and large fields the next week, I am now extremely disappointed with this rule.   CalSouth, you owe it to the parents and coaches to come up with a deadline to have all clubs meet the field requirements needed to play 7 v 7.       One week I see teams playing great soccer and then the following week they play in large fields and it's back to kickball.
> If anyone has connections with a CalSouth Board Member, please send this over and if you feel the same way, let them know that it's time to make changes.


I have to disagree with you on this.  Most fields were too small for the GU9s and GU10s, even before the format changes.  Now they are even smaller, and these small fields are often being used for 9 v. 9 play at the G2007 and G2006 age groups in the current age brackets.  Very few teams at these ages are able to play a controlled game in such tight space; in most games there is only about 20 minutes of actual play because play is constantly stopped for balls going out of bounds or over the end lines.

If you are against kickball on general principles, then I am with you, but in truth, these postage-stamp sized fields greatly increase the effectiveness of kickball, because one big clobber-ball puts you right in front of the opponents' net.  Larger fields give young possession-style teams a chance to spread out and make use of space.  

But on another note, why on this God's Green Earth would you want to insist on monolithic conformity regarding field size?  Conformity kills innovation; it kills imagination.  Variety encourages different styles of play and creativity.  I thought that is what we want to see more of in this country.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 22, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> I have to disagree with you on this.  Most fields were too small for the GU9s and GU10s, even before the format changes.  Now they are even smaller, and these small fields are often being used for 9 v. 9 play at the G2007 and G2006 age groups in the current age brackets.  Very few teams at these ages are able to play a controlled game in such tight space; in most games there is only about 20 minutes of actual play because play is constantly stopped for balls going out of bounds or over the end lines.
> 
> If you are against kickball on general principles, then I am with you, but in truth, these postage-stamp sized fields greatly increase the effectiveness of kickball, because one big clobber-ball puts you right in front of the opponents' net.  Larger fields give young possession-style teams a chance to spread out and make use of space.
> 
> But on another note, why on this God's Green Earth would you want to insist on monolithic conformity regarding field size?  Conformity kills innovation; it kills imagination.  Variety encourages different styles of play and creativity.  I thought that is what we want to see more of in this country.



Daniel Miller, my point is that if CALSouth is making a rule change than enforce it!  What's the point of focusing on more small sided play when they don't enforce the fields.  
Your comments actually prove my point on why smaller fields are better on a 7v7 situation.  You said  "very few teams at these ages are able to play a controlled game in such tight space".        This is exactly the problem with our youth teams.  They need to be placed in situations where their first touch is extremely important and then  make accurate passes  in small fields.  

Look at youth soccer in Spain, Brazil, Argentina, and other countries, they all play mostly in very small fields.  This is why Futsal is so popular outside of the USA.  Small sided game with focus on passing, accuracy, and ball control is exactly what we need.     

If we want to go back to the old rule, that's fine then just allow a 9v9 rather than a 7v7 at the younger age group.


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## MWN (Oct 22, 2017)

@soccer4life ,

I would like to bring a few items that you are not privy too.

First, your cite to the chart in your post above is to last years chart, which had U12's playing 11v11.  The field sizes specified are not accurate as well.  The correct chart is here: http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/PDIs/USSF_SSG_Chart_update51117doc2_2017-2018.pdf?rev=A6A8

Second, under the correct PDI, 7v7 plays on Length 55-65 to Width 35-45, whereas 9v9 plays on Length 70-80 Width 45-55.  There is no overlap for 9v9 to play on a 7v7 field from a length recommendation, BUT many leagues allow clubs to build fields that are 70x45 (minimum 9v9 size and play the 7v7's on that field which represents 5 yards above maximum because of unavailability of resources).

Third, the PDI is initiatives and recommendations that are subject to deviation by the gaming leagues (CSL, Presidio, SCDSL, Recreational leagues, etc.).  Now, these leagues are free to adopt standards that deviate from the Cal South PDI (which is the US Youth Soccer PDI, which is turn is the US Soccer recommendations), but do so at their own risk (especially the safety PDI's (no headers)).  Virtually all Leagues have adopted the Cal South PDI in their gaming rules, so clubs are obligated to adhere to these standards absent a waiver from the league.  This third point means that if one were to go have a conversation with their local commissioner or a Cal South staff member the response would be "Take it up with your club/league, because they control this point."

Finally and I know this final point will probably fall on deaf ears.  We are talking about 7v7 kids.  In the grand scheme it doesn't matter if the field is too small or too big.  Did the kids have fun playing the game?  That is all that matters.  Wins, loses, are for parents.  Indeed, the PDI provides that no standings or scores are to be kept for 7v7 play.


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## espola (Oct 22, 2017)

MWN said:


> @soccer4life ,
> 
> I would like to bring a few items that you are not privy too.
> 
> ...


Where are you getting all those fields?


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## MWN (Oct 22, 2017)

espola said:


> Where are you getting all those fields?


Where?  For league play at Galway Downs I know they have 2 7v7 (40x60), 3 9v9's (55x80), and 10 11v11 (75x115, with a few 70x110).


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## espola (Oct 22, 2017)

MWN said:


> Where?  For league play at Galway Downs I know they have 2 7v7 (40x60), 3 9v9's (55x80), and 10 11v11 (75x115, with a few 70x110).


Not every club (or city) is that wealthy.


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## Daniel Miller (Oct 22, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Daniel Miller, my point is that if CALSouth is making a rule change than enforce it!  What's the point of focusing on more small sided play when they don't enforce the fields.
> Your comments actually prove my point on why smaller fields are better on a 7v7 situation.  You said  "very few teams at these ages are able to play a controlled game in such tight space".        This is exactly the problem with our youth teams.  They need to be placed in situations where their first touch is extremely important and then  make accurate passes  in small fields.
> 
> Look at youth soccer in Spain, Brazil, Argentina, and other countries, they all play mostly in very small fields.  This is why Futsal is so popular outside of the USA.  Small sided game with focus on passing, accuracy, and ball control is exactly what we need.
> ...


SoccerFan4Life:

Yes, I get your point about having "rules" for field size.  But, like the Pirate Code, field-size rules are really more like guidelines ...

Your other argument comes down to this:  playing on tiny fields will improve touch and passing.  To which I respond:  I don't think you have seen as much "tiny-field" soccer as I have, or you would know better.  Tiny fields don't lead to improved touch and better passing except in the minds of soccer Utopians.  Consider some other Utopian ideas:  If you just explain to them why vegetables are good for you, kids will choose vegetables instead of gummy bears.  If you outlaw alcohol, then people will stop drinking.  Tax cuts for the rich will be a boon for the poor.  These are all great ideas, but none of them work.

Instead of theory, look to real life.  Kids who actually play on tiny fields play kickball, because there isn't enough space to move the ball from foot to foot.  So kids resort to the most effective technique available; namely, just kicking the ball as hard as they can in the general direction of the goal.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 22, 2017)

MWN said:


> @soccer4life ,
> 
> I would like to bring a few items that you are not privy too.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the insight. I Didn't realize these were just guidelines.  Maybe these guidelines should just dissapear if not many teams are following them.   

It's all good. I learned something new about calsouth today.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 22, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> SoccerFan4Life:
> 
> Yes, I get your point about having "rules" for field size.  But, like the Pirate Code, field-size rules are really more like guidelines ...
> 
> ...


If the coach allows kickball then it's time to look for a new coach or just go back to rec soccer.    Small sided games are the standard in youth soccer outside of the USA.   Personally they should just have U9's and younger play futsal and not Soccer.   Probably an extreme view but I guarantee you that it's working for other countries that are dominating this sport.


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 22, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> SoccerFan4Life:
> 
> Yes, I get your point about having "rules" for field size.  But, like the Pirate Code, field-size rules are really more like guidelines ...
> 
> Your other argument comes down to this:  playing on tiny fields will improve touch and passing.  To which I respond:  I don't think you have seen as much "tiny-field" soccer as I have, or you would know better.  Tiny fields don't lead to improved touch and better passing except in the minds of soccer Utopians.  Consider some other Utopian ideas:  If you just explain to them why vegetables are good for you, kids will choose vegetables instead of gummy bears.  If you outlaw alcohol, then people will stop drinking.  Tax cuts for the rich will be a boon for the poor.  These are all great ideas, but none of them work.


If only moochelle Obama would have listened to you, but I am sure you didn't bother when she was in power.


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## Daniel Miller (Oct 22, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> If the coach allows kickball then it's time to look for a new coach or just go back to rec soccer.    Small sided games are the standard in youth soccer outside of the USA.   Personally they should just have U9's and younger play futsal and not Soccer.   Probably an extreme view but I guarantee you that it's working for other countries that are dominating this sport.


I agree that if a coach "teaches" kickball to the exclusion of possession, then it's a problem.  But your proposal to "look for a new coach" if some kickball is "allowed" is a bit preposterous.  Every professional team in the world plays some kickball now and then.  Kickball is often a good strategy; most counterattack systems have at least some element of kickball involved.  How about "clearing" a ball?  Would you fire a coach who allowed a kid under pressure to get the ball out of the back with a nice clear?    It sounds like you are one of those guys who believes in senseless possession under any and all circumstances.

As for your argument that "small-sided" games are the "standard" in games outside of the USA, so what?  Small-sided games for youth soccer is the standard here, too.  The issue under debate is not the number of players on the field; it is the size of the field.  You want tiny fields of about 30 X 45 yards, a la futsal.  I want fields of about 50 X 75 yards.  You think youngers should be prohibited from playing actual soccer - and should only be allowed to play futsal.  Good for you.  You have my blessing to adopt that policy for your own kid.    But I think if you want to learn how to play soccer, then most of your training should be on a soccer field, playing with a soccer ball.  And I really, really, really don't want guys like you with your well-intentioned but idiotic notions about soccer training telling me what to do with my kids, or my game.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 22, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> I agree that if a coach "teaches" kickball to the exclusion of possession, then it's a problem.  But your proposal to "look for a new coach" if some kickball is "allowed" is a bit preposterous.  Every professional team in the world plays some kickball now and then.  Kickball is often a good strategy; most counterattack systems have at least some element of kickball involved.  How about "clearing" a ball?  Would you fire a coach who allowed a kid under pressure to get the ball out of the back with a nice clear?    It sounds like you are one of those guys who believes in senseless possession under any and all circumstances.
> 
> As for your argument that "small-sided" games are the "standard" in games outside of the USA, so what?  Small-sided games for youth soccer is the standard here, too.  The issue under debate is not the number of players on the field; it is the size of the field.  You want tiny fields of about 30 X 45 yards, a la futsal.  I want fields of about 50 X 75 yards.  You think youngers should be prohibited from playing actual soccer - and should only be allowed to play futsal.  Good for you.  You have my blessing to adopt that policy for your own kid.    But I think if you want to learn how to play soccer, then most of your training should be on a soccer field, playing with a soccer ball.  And I really, really, really don't want guys like you with your well-intentioned but idiotic notions about soccer training telling me what to do with my kids, or my game.


Dude , I am just responding to the calsouth rule about field size changes. 
I didn't know it was just a guideline and not an actual rule.  Now I know and understand why it's happening. 

 You are the one talking about how kids cannot play well  on small fields.  We agree to disagree.  That's it.


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