# Honest coach feedback



## soccermail2020 (May 15, 2021)

How do you get honest coach feedback on your players strengths/weaknesses if current coach isn’t providing this?  The attempts dd have made with current coach have not resulted in anything we can use for her growth.


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## timbuck (May 15, 2021)

Every players needs:
1. Better  first touch
2. Improve "Weak" foot.
3. Game awareness.


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## Goforgoal (May 15, 2021)

Yeah, good luck with that.


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## notintheface (May 15, 2021)

Sign up for a few private lessons with another coach at the club.


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## pokergod (May 15, 2021)

notintheface said:


> Sign up for a few private lessons with another coach at the club.


Good private coaches will often provide written reports about strengths and weaknesses.  I know some of the good private coaches will come to a game or two a year to see the how the training is working during an actual game.  Can be funny to see "rival" coaches on our sideline watching kids they train.


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## Frank (May 16, 2021)

Her playing time will tell you exactly how your coach feels about her.


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## Soccermom18 (May 16, 2021)

Frank said:


> Her playing time will tell you exactly how your coach feels about her.


I agree.  Are they a starter? Do they play the whole game?  Do they only get subbed in when the team is up or another player is tired?


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## soccermail2020 (May 16, 2021)

Player has approached coach, requested feedback and was told only that she isn’t fast enough.   Playtime has dramatically decreased recently from starting and playing full games to not starting and playing max 30 mins per game.  Is speed alone reason to lose a starting position?  The alternative player has speed with less skill/ball control or soccer iq.


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## Grace T. (May 16, 2021)

soccermail2020 said:


> Player has approached coach, requested feedback and was told only that she isn’t fast enough.   Playtime has dramatically decreased recently from starting and playing full games to not starting and playing max 30 mins per game.  Is speed alone reason to lose a starting position?  The alternative player has speed with less skill/ball control or soccer iq.


Do they play a long ball running game (lots of through balls, punts, long goal kicks, long passing)?  Then yes   If so it may be your dd just isn’t a good match for the play style and the coach just needs people up front that can outrun their opponents.  If that’s the style things like ball control and soccer iq aren’t necessary and you just need really fast kids up front and players with good strong legs in back. It’s a style sometimes played by weaker teams looking to secure a win the quick and easy way, and if the coach is English might also be influenced by the English longball style. Doesn’t say anything about your dds soccer skills just her fit for the particular play style

1. Get her evaluated by one of the better trainers that works with high level athletes. Keep in mind they’ll want to sell you lessons but at least can give you a frank opinion of strengths and weaknesses (the coach won’t do that if it’s a playing style issue because the coach won’t want to fess up to what he’s doing)
2. Your choices are make her into a runner, be satisfied with the playtimes she’s getting, or move perhaps even down 1 level depending on her age.


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## Messi>CR7 (May 17, 2021)

soccermail2020 said:


> Player has approached coach, requested feedback and was told only that she isn’t fast enough.   Playtime has dramatically decreased recently from starting and playing full games to not starting and playing max 30 mins per game.  Is speed alone reason to lose a starting position?  The alternative player has speed with less skill/ball control or soccer iq.


You certainly can get less playing time and/or lose starting job for lack of speed.  Certain positions (winger for example) requires more speed than others.

Have your player ask her coach what specific improvement she can make to get more playing time.  By that I don't mean getting a non-specific answer like "she needs to be faster".  Before puberty my kid was one of the smallest players on the team.  Her coach's feedback was she needs to play everything a bit faster to compensate for her lack of strength.

We had a wonderful coach who played my kid full time at CB even though she was undersized.  We also had an equally wonderful coach who thought my kid was too small to play CB.  Each coach builds the team based on his/her own philosophy.  Find one that values your kid's skill sets.


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## watfly (May 17, 2021)

First, kudos for your kid asking the coach.

Obviously it's hard to tell what your situation is, but as others implied your coach only gave your kid a half answer.  Not fast enough for what?  Chase down through balls, mark a wing player, etc?  Just telling a kid their not fast enough is discouraging because it really doesn't give them much room for improvement (although I'm one of the few that believe you can materially increase someone's speed through proper training and technique. Don't get me started on what poor running mechanics I see that are easily correctable but coaches ignore.  Even getting a half-step quicker is a huge improvement.)

Keep in mind that coaches judge a player first on size and speed, i.e. objective measures.  Most coaches wouldn't recognize soccer IQ if it hit them in the head.   Speed of foot is only part of the equation, there is also speed of mind in decision making.

A trainer will be able to give your kid an honest assessment of their skills and will be able to evaluate foot speed.  However, it will be very difficult for the trainer to evaluate your kid without see them playing in a game situation.  The coaches "your not fast enough" response is likely just lazy, but if your kid does need to improve speed there are some good trainers out there that will do it.  Find one that is a speed specialists first, but understands soccer.  Soccer speed is not just physical, it also relies on technique and speed of mind.


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## Eagle33 (May 17, 2021)

Stay away from any coach/club that don't have Individual Player Development plan in place. It would be a waste of time for your player.


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## timbuck (May 17, 2021)

soccermail2020 said:


> Player has approached coach, requested feedback and was told only that she isn’t fast enough.   Playtime has dramatically decreased recently from starting and playing full games to not starting and playing max 30 mins per game.  Is speed alone reason to lose a starting position?  The alternative player has speed with less skill/ball control or soccer iq.


What age group?  What position does she play?

Speed alone shouldn't be the reason to lose a spot... but consider the following things the coach may be looking at:
1.  The other player has worked really hard to get faster.
2.  Coach thinks he can't teach speed, but he can make the other kid better technically  (Ive heard plenty of coaches over the years say "Give me an athlete, I'll teach her soccer."  But then they just ride the speed/size of that athlete without much overall improvement)
3. Is your player willing to play another  position?  If she was playing on the wing, maybe she'd be better off more central.
4.  "Not fast enough"  - does this mean her "sprint speed" or her speed of play?  Is she not able to outrun a backline or is she losing the ball because she isn't playing fast enough.
5. Puberty can be a real problem for girls.  Some grow tall, some grow wide, some do both and it can happen very quickly.  It can take some time to adjust to a new body.


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## notintheface (May 17, 2021)

soccermail2020 said:


> Player has approached coach, requested feedback and was told only that she isn’t fast enough.   Playtime has dramatically decreased recently from starting and playing full games to not starting and playing max 30 mins per game.  Is speed alone reason to lose a starting position?  The alternative player has speed with less skill/ball control or soccer iq.


What age group / position is your player?

You can absolutely lose playing time if your player has lost a step, is currently in the middle of a growth spurt and trying to figure out his/her feet, or is making slower decisions on the field. Keep up their work on their first touch and their ball control. It is okay for your player to not be the fastest one out there as long as they are reliable in other areas. Pass completion, bravery, movement without the ball, being an option for the player with the ball, all of these are just as important.


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## Woodwork (May 17, 2021)

This is the season to be looking for a new team.

It is 100x easier to find a coach who values the player's attributes.

I do believe that a player should work on speed as well as skill and IQ.  But, I also believe that the player should get as much playing time as possible while working on those things.  Otherwise, she will have to train 3x as hard to make up for missing development in-game.  This is an almost impossible deficit to make-up.

This belongs in the things that drive me crazy thread, but how about coaches who start a player based on one quality, but never train that thing?


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## RayClemence (May 17, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> Do they play a long ball running game (lots of through balls, punts, long goal kicks, long passing)?  Then yes   If so it may be your dd just isn’t a good match for the play style and the coach just needs people up front that can outrun their opponents.  If that’s the style things like ball control and soccer iq aren’t necessary and you just need really fast kids up front and players with good strong legs in back. It’s a style sometimes played by weaker teams looking to secure a win the quick and easy way, and if the coach is English might also be influenced by the English longball style. Doesn’t say anything about your dds soccer skills just her fit for the particular play style
> 
> Grace makes a point that many people miss.  Parents often look for the "best team" or "best coach" but fail to realize that they need to find a team where their child can fit in and do well.  A player who could be a "star" on one team might be a dud on another team playing a different style.  You also need to see if there are players on a team that your child can "play with".  For example, if the coach is looking for speed and plays a long-pass game to exploit the speed of the team's speedy forwards, that team needs to have a "distributor" who can play those passes into spaces for the speedy forwards.  If your DD has skills but not enough speed, is it part of her skill-set to provide those defense-splitting passes?  Does she have the game IQ to see the field and make these passes?  If she has that skill and game IQ, she can reinvent herself on her team and be a center-back or center-mid who can play those passes.  Talk to the coach.  More importantly, this is an example of how speedy forwards on a team with no effective distributors can struggle, but how a slow but skilled distributor can "play with" a speedy forward and good finisher to make BOTH players AND the team better.
> 
> There are too many coaches in this country who blindly look for speed, size and aggression and ignore IQ and skills.  Skills can be taught but game IQ is hard for most girls to acquire because most girls in this country do not watch enough soccer.  Much of the needed game IQs are developed by watching soccer.  So speed alone isn't enough, and there are not enough coaches who appreciate the importance that game IQ and certain skills can bring when complemented with size, speed and aggression.  Don't forget that what makes Messi so special is not his size or speed, but his game IQ and skills.


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## RayClemence (May 17, 2021)

Grace makes a point that many people miss. Parents often look for the "best team" or "best coach" but fail to realize that they need to find a team where their child can fit in and do well. A player who could be a "star" on one team might be a dud on another team playing a different style. You also need to see if there are players on a team that your child can "play with". For example, if the coach is looking for speed and plays a long-pass game to exploit the speed of the team's speedy forwards, that team needs to have a "distributor" who can play those passes into spaces for the speedy forwards. If your DD has skills but not enough speed, is it part of her skill-set to provide those defense-splitting passes? Does she have the game IQ to see the field and make these passes? If she has that skill and game IQ, she can reinvent herself on her team and be a center-back or center-mid who can play those passes. Talk to the coach. More importantly, this is an example of how speedy forwards on a team with no effective distributors can struggle, but how a slow but skilled distributor can "play with" a speedy forward and good finisher to make BOTH players AND the team better.

There are too many coaches in this country who blindly look for speed, size and aggression and ignore IQ and skills. Skills can be taught but game IQ is hard for most girls to acquire because most girls in this country do not watch enough soccer. Much of the needed game IQs are developed by watching soccer. So speed alone isn't enough, and there are not enough coaches who appreciate the importance that game IQ and certain skills can bring when complemented with size, speed and aggression. Don't forget that what makes Messi so special is not his size or speed, but his game IQ and skills.


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## Messi>CR7 (May 18, 2021)

Xavi Hernandez's report card at Barcelona's youth academy when he was 14:
Speed: Average
Shot: Acceptable
Aggression: Average
Control: Excellent
Passes: Very good
Crosses: Good 
Running with the ball: Very good
Dribbles: Good
Positioning: Excellent

He ended up a little better than average.


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## watfly (May 18, 2021)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Xavi Hernandez's report card at Barcelona's youth academy when he was 14:
> Speed: Average
> Shot: Acceptable
> Aggression: Average
> ...


Positioning: Excellent  aka soccer IQ.


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## Emma (May 18, 2021)

Definitely an excellent report card for a midfielder.  Control and positioning are both excellent.


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## timbuck (May 18, 2021)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Xavi Hernandez's report card at Barcelona's youth academy when he was 14:
> Speed: Average
> Shot: Acceptable
> Aggression: Average
> ...


I wonder what kind of evaluation a typical MLS Next player would get from Barca Academy at the age of 14.


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## soccermail2020 (May 18, 2021)

First, thank you all!
The information here is so amazingly valuable and technically sound, I feel like you all should write a book!  
I am hesitant to share more personal details because of the very real (and sad) risk that our players experience when sharing any info about our team/coach. Asking questions is considered a negative mindset. Other parents have been known to report families that look outside the club for advice, info or coaching. 
I have shared this info with my DD and she has committed to working on many of these things (continued soccer IQ from watching her own and other games, sprinting speed specific to soccer, touch, anticipation, ball skills, foot speed) while continuing to grow as a player to reach her goal of playing college soccer in a few years. 
Regardless of where she ends up, we appreciate each of you taking the time to share your knowledge with us to help her on this journey!


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## outside! (May 20, 2021)

soccermail2020 said:


> First, thank you all!
> The information here is so amazingly valuable and technically sound, I feel like you all should write a book!
> I am hesitant to share more personal details because of the very real (and sad) risk that our players experience when sharing any info about our team/coach. Asking questions is considered a negative mindset. Other parents have been known to report families that look outside the club for advice, info or coaching.
> I have shared this info with my DD and she has committed to working on many of these things (continued soccer IQ from watching her own and other games, sprinting speed specific to soccer, touch, anticipation, ball skills, foot speed) while continuing to grow as a player to reach her goal of playing college soccer in a few years.
> Regardless of where she ends up, we appreciate each of you taking the time to share your knowledge with us to help her on this journey!


Your DD should seriously consider finding a new team with a coach who is not an ass.


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## crush (May 20, 2021)

soccermail2020 said:


> *First, thank you all!*
> The i*nformation here is so amazingly valuable and technically sound*, *I feel like you all should write a book! *
> I am hesitant to share more personal details because of the very real (and sad) risk that our players experience when sharing any info about our team/coach. *Asking questions is considered a negative mindset.* *Other parents have been known to report families that look outside the club for advice, info or coaching.*


It's been hard for 90% of us.  I think the "snitch" reporting days will come to an end, at least i hope so.  Monitoring what 13 years olds are doing with their free time and reporting back to higher ups is pure evil!!!  PM me anytime   P.S. I will NEVER share anything you share with me at the fields or PMs you send me.  100% promise.


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## focomoso (May 23, 2021)

soccermail2020 said:


> First, thank you all!
> ...I am hesitant to share more personal details because of the very real (and sad) risk that our players experience when sharing any info about our team/coach. Asking questions is considered a negative mindset. Other parents have been known to report families that look outside the club for advice, info or coaching...


For the love of God, find a better team / coach.


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## SFR (May 25, 2021)

focomoso said:


> For the love of God, find a better team / coach.


Just curios how you find a better team / coach. From my experience with my kids playing for different clubs is that you can ask 11 parents about their opinions on their coach and club and you get if not 11 different opinions but it will be very mixed. Usually, from those parents, whose kids get lot's of playing time you will get positive feedback and from those who getting very little playing time .. you get the idea.
Plus, depending on the age, for older player, it's very hard to find/join a new team as available spots on roster is very limited and usually only very good players are able to move to another team. And what is a good player for one coach is different with another. 
As for a situation when a player getting little playing time while he/she totally deserves more I feel very sorry. I know I've been there with my daughter and it's devastating in so many aspects.


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## Grace T. (May 25, 2021)

SFR said:


> Just curios how you find a better team / coach. From my experience with my kids playing for different clubs is that you can ask 11 parents about their opinions on their coach and club and you get if not 11 different opinions but it will be very mixed. Usually, from those parents, whose kids get lot's of playing time you will get positive feedback and from those who getting very little playing time .. you get the idea.
> Plus, depending on the age, for older player, it's very hard to find/join a new team as available spots on roster is very limited and usually only very good players are able to move to another team. And what is a good player for one coach is different with another.
> As for a situation when a player getting little playing time while he/she totally deserves more I feel very sorry. I know I've been there with my daughter and it's devastating in so many aspects.


a. That's why you have to watch a game before you commit.
b. The roster problem thing is only an issue if your kid is playing below the median line of the level for that particular league.  If they are a decent player for that level, they'll be picked up by any coach who thinks both the family and the player are compatible with the team's philosophy.  
c. If you aren't above that line, then yes it will be a struggle.  But then you have the trade off: do I want to keep playing at this level knowing I'm just a bench player or do I want to go somewhere I can actually get more minutes.  What's important for you.
d. The answer the younger the kid more absolutely becomes that "more minutes".is more important.
5. "deserves".  I'm one of the harshest critics around here about the garbage stuff that goes on with club soccer.  My kid has been put through the ringer by more than 1 coach.  But no one "deserves" playtime....when you sign up with a team, it's important to know how the coach is going to hand out those minutes (and if the coach breaks his or her word move on).  If equal playtime is important, there are those organization (like AYSO United) which believe in distributing minutes (though I've seen some breaches of that philosophy even there).


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## RayClemence (May 25, 2021)

SFR said:


> Just curios how you find a better team / coach. From my experience with my kids playing for different clubs is that you can ask 11 parents about their opinions on their coach and club and you get if not 11 different opinions but it will be very mixed. Usually, from those parents, whose kids get lot's of playing time you will get positive feedback and from those who getting very little playing time .. you get the idea.
> Plus, depending on the age, for older player, it's very hard to find/join a new team as available spots on roster is very limited and usually only very good players are able to move to another team. And what is a good player for one coach is different with another.
> As for a situation when a player getting little playing time while he/she totally deserves more I feel very sorry. I know I've been there with my daughter and it's devastating in so many aspects.


The key is to find a team where your child can "fit in".  But you need to be realistic about your child's actual abilities and have realistic expectations.  Not every child is a GOAT.  You need to know your child's strengths and weaknesses.

At the older age groups, you should not be focusing on "name brand" or "elite leagues" because this is where you will encounter the problems that SFR mentions.  If you are willing to drive a bit further (but not too far) from home to attend practices, there are many teams with smaller clubs that offer many opportunities.  Playing on a silver-elite or gold CSL team where your child is an integral part of the team and is heavily involved in team play is better than riding the bench on a Discovery level SCDSL team.  At the high-school age group, your priority is to play as much as possible, and to collect enough meaningful video highlights that you can send to a college coach.  The "hype" about playing in showcases can be "overhyped" as meaningful videos can be a better recruiting tool if you have a good idea of what colleges you want to play for.


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## RayClemence (May 25, 2021)

In terms of "how to find a better team/coach", just look up all the teams in your age group(s) (e.g., if you are 2005, you can look for both 2004 and 2005), contact the coach, and try to invite yourself to a practice.  Go watch them play (if you can).  Ignore the league (CSL or SCDSL) and the "name brand" (Slammers vs. HomeTown FC).  If you know your child's strengths and weaknesses, you will easily find a team where you know he/she could fit in based on how the coach coaches a game/practice, how the team plays, and the types of players on the team.  See if your child's strengths and weaknesses can complement the other players on the team.  Keep an open mind, and have realistic expectations.

This should be the way that every parent chooses a team for their child, but unfortunately, most decisions are based on one or both of the following: (i) "fame" of the coach/club, and (ii) friends playing together.  Too little emphasis is placed on the factors I mentioned above.  Players end up on teams where they don't fit what the coach is looking for, things go south, then the players jump to another team (again based on one or both of these reasons), and the cycle repeats itself until the player gets burned out.


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## Eagle33 (May 26, 2021)

SFR said:


> Just curios how you find a better team / coach. From my experience with my kids playing for different clubs is that you can ask 11 parents about their opinions on their coach and club and you get if not 11 different opinions but it will be very mixed. Usually, from those parents, whose kids get lot's of playing time you will get positive feedback and from those who getting very little playing time .. you get the idea.
> Plus, depending on the age, for older player, it's very hard to find/join a new team as available spots on roster is very limited and usually only very good players are able to move to another team. And what is a good player for one coach is different with another.
> As for a situation when a player getting little playing time while he/she totally deserves more I feel very sorry. I know I've been there with my daughter and it's devastating in so many aspects.


it's very simple....if you get positive feedback from parents whos players getting very little playing time, you found yourself a good coach.


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## soccermail2020 (May 26, 2021)

We have spent the last two months contacting coaches, going out to practices and watching games of teams where we think it might be a good match. She has trained with teams where she clearly struggled to keep up and teams where she was on the higher end talent wise at the training. 
We have listened to how coaches talk to players, watched how they coach during games vs practices and asked questions of other players and parents about team dynamic. 
One hard aspect to judge is team talent because so much shifting can occur at tryout time.  You cant alway get a gauge on who will remain on the team. Some clubs have had shifts in their programs that caused a shuffling between levels. If a team gives up a program (GA or DPL for example or changes their level of play) you tend to have more movement. 

We continue on this journey to find the right fit for my DD with the main concentration of finding the right coach.


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## socalkdg (May 26, 2021)

SFR said:


> Just curios how you find a better team / coach. From my experience with my kids playing for different clubs is that you can ask 11 parents about their opinions on their coach and club and you get if not 11 different opinions but it will be very mixed. Usually, from those parents, whose kids get lot's of playing time you will get positive feedback and from those who getting very little playing time .. you get the idea.
> Plus, depending on the age, for older player, it's very hard to find/join a new team as available spots on roster is very limited and usually only very good players are able to move to another team. And what is a good player for one coach is different with another.
> As for a situation when a player getting little playing time while he/she totally deserves more I feel very sorry. I know I've been there with my daughter and it's devastating in so many aspects.


If your kid is a field player and there is only one keeper, ask the parent of that keeper.  First off, keepers are badass, their parents are amazing.     Second, there isn't usually a playing time issue thus a better chance of getting a good answer as there won't be any jealousy on playing time.  Third we always know where our kid is during a game so we have more time to watch the other players during the game, plus parents of keepers are just smarter.  

I imagine it can be difficult.   We have been on the same team, with different coaches, trainers, etc.  Finding a team that will let you practice for a few weeks as well as play a scrimmage or game with them is really helpful.  Another thing is don't think just because a team seems set at certain positions doesn't mean your kid can't play at that position.  We just decided to take our really good CB and turn her into a holding mid.  CB position now being manned by someone new.  Good coaches can move girls around to optimize the players they have.


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## focomoso (May 28, 2021)

SFR said:


> Just curios how you find a better team / coach. From my experience with my kids playing for different clubs is that you can ask 11 parents about their opinions on their coach and club and you get if not 11 different opinions but it will be very mixed. Usually, from those parents, whose kids get lot's of playing time you will get positive feedback and from those who getting very little playing time .. you get the idea.
> Plus, depending on the age, for older player, it's very hard to find/join a new team as available spots on roster is very limited and usually only very good players are able to move to another team. And what is a good player for one coach is different with another.
> As for a situation when a player getting little playing time while he/she totally deserves more I feel very sorry. I know I've been there with my daughter and it's devastating in so many aspects.


Yes - it can be hard to judge coaches, especially if you didn't play soccer yourself and every parent will give a different answer to "how do you like the coach", but for me, that's the wrong question. I'd instead ask the coach and parents about how the coach views their role. If a coach is too protective of their players, 'punishing' them for trying out elsewhere, I'd suggest the coach is doing it wrong. They're trying to win games rather than develop players. The best coaches we've encountered so far have all said that it's their job to get the kids to move up off of their team - whether that's DA to MLS DA, ECRL to ECNL or bronze to silver - whatever level they're at, they should encourage their kids to try out at other clubs or move up to the club's higher-level teams. When I hear that from a coach, I have a much better idea that they're in it for the right reasons.


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## soccermail2020 (Jun 13, 2021)

Don’t laugh me off the forums: we sign a contract with a Club each season but it only protects and supports the club.  What would your contract say if you could write your own club agreement that was mutually beneficial? 
Is it really so wrong to expect that our agreement secure the clubs investment in our child for the season? I am not asking for a playing time commitment, just a commitment to coach, teach and grow the player. I think we all know that playtime is a part of that growth process.  With clubs these days always looking for the “next best thing”, the commitment to the player doesn’t seem to exist.


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## Emma (Jun 14, 2021)

soccermail2020 said:


> Don’t laugh me off the forums: we sign a contract with a Club each season but it only protects and supports the club.  What would your contract say if you could write your own club agreement that was mutually beneficial?
> Is it really so wrong to expect that our agreement secure the clubs investment in our child for the season? I am not asking for a playing time commitment, just a commitment to coach, teach and grow the player. I think we all know that playtime is a part of that growth process.  With clubs these days always looking for the “next best thing”, the commitment to the player doesn’t seem to exist.


I think this is something parents should ask themselves and really see if the club is a good fit for them but we have to first ask ourselves: what are the specifics defining a club's commitment to a child? Here's my list, not in order of importance.

1. 80% Consistent practicing schedule
2. Same Coach unless there are extremely extenuating circumstances (with said coach having 3 teams or less)
3. Try to keep costs down and local play to ensure players can afford it
4. Maintain practice fields
5. Ensure proper warm ups to prevent injuries
6. Ensure positive & safe team atmosphere
7. Push players to play better and work hard during practice and outside of practice
8. Discussion of nutrition and fitness maintenance throughout season

I left play time out because I'm old school and believe it should be earned and not given, part of joining a club rather than staying in rec.  Stay in rec if you want equal playing time, and there's nothing wrong with staying in rec.  I'd actually encourage more parents and children to stay in Rec because it is a better place for most of the players I see in club these days but Clubs are just recruiting these players in to pad their pockets with third and fourth teams.


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## outside! (Jun 14, 2021)

Emma said:


> 5. Ensure proper warm ups to prevent injuries


Great stuff. Add warm downs to this line item. Running hard and then getting right into a car to sit in traffic is not good.


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## oh canada (Jun 14, 2021)

With all three of my kids (2boys, 1girl) almost through the club soccer "ferris wheel", I can confidently assure younger parents that it is highly unlikely your coach will be completely candid about your kids' weaknesses.  My kids have played at medium-sized clubs and the most well known. (note, I did not use the word "top"--just bc everyone has heard of McDonalds doesn't mean they make a better burger than The Cut).  Most parents can't handle true constructive criticism about themselves, and especially their soon to be National Team Player--which all of them are at age 12, of course.

This is one of the problems with the pay-for-play-model.  Most clubs don't really care about you and your kid, especially the bigger, corporate-driven, brand-expanders--you know the names.  They do care about your $5,000/year though.   Coaches feel pressure to keep kids and parents happy AND on the team.  Therefore, your fancy individual player pathway reports and semiannual meetings will emphasize the positives and gloss over the negatives.  I practically had to beg coaches to tell my kids how they can improve specifically, reassuring them that we have thick skin and can handle the negatives.  One coach told me that many parents say that but they don't really mean it, and after a day or two of the criticisms sinking in, the parents can't/don't accept it, email about it, argue about it, even make presentations with exhibits to change the coaches' minds.  Then, of course, there are emails and conversations to the coach's superiors...so it's like, why even go there knowing all the drama that will flow thereafter?    

And, how your player is improving isn't really that important anyway, right?  Isn't it all about finding a team with more wins, collecting medals, and posting championship photos on social media?  Even if that means driving an extra 3 hours round trip, homework in the car and eating fast food 3x/week?


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## Messi>CR7 (Jun 14, 2021)

soccermail2020 said:


> Don’t laugh me off the forums: we sign a contract with a Club each season but it only protects and supports the club.  What would your contract say if you could write your own club agreement that was mutually beneficial?
> Is it really so wrong to expect that our agreement secure the clubs investment in our child for the season? I am not asking for a playing time commitment, just a commitment to coach, teach and grow the player. I think we all know that playtime is a part of that growth process.  With clubs these days always looking for the “next best thing”, the commitment to the player doesn’t seem to exist.


In our player's contract, it's specifically spelled out that playing time is not guaranteed at all.

From our own experience, on a team of 18, there could be three field players (usually centerbacks) and GK that play every minute especially if the games are close.  That leaves 14 players to fight for playing time for the remaining 7 spots which means by default each player gets only 50% playing time.  If you do well, you can get 75% but that also means someone else gets 25%.  

If you accept the above math, it's apparent that coach cannot develop all 18 players if you use playing time as a criteria.  At U11 a few years back my kid was on a team where she played every minute the entire season at CB.  Frankly I didn't know if she was developing at the right pace, but I just assumed it was all good since she played every minute.

If your kid is in middle school or older, she needs to have a conversation with the coach (without the parents) to understand what she needs to do to play more.  It's easier for some kids than others to do this.  But as many have said, it's your kid's journey and she needs to deal with the struggles.

Having said that, is your player making an impact against middle-of-the-table competition in whatever league/flight she plays in?  If not and she is not playing much, it could be one of three scenarios:
1. She should not have been offered a spot on the team, and your player should not have accepted it (sorry to be so blunt here).
2. Stylistically she is not a good with her coach/team.
3. She is playing at the right level, but not "obviously" better than her teammates to get significant minutes.  It's up to your player to earn more playing time.

For #1 and #2, it's time for a new team.


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## Woodwork (Jun 15, 2021)

Messi>CR7 said:


> In our player's contract, it's specifically spelled out that playing time is not guaranteed at all.
> 
> From our own experience, on a team of 18, there could be three field players (usually centerbacks) and GK that play every minute especially if the games are close.  That leaves 14 players to fight for playing time for the remaining 7 spots which means by default each player gets only 50% playing time.  If you do well, you can get 75% but that also means someone else gets 25%.
> 
> ...


At the younger ages, just be explicit to the coach that you are looking for a team where your kid will regularly play at least 1/2 of each game.   Ask if the coach sees your kid getting that based on where he/she stands now.  If yes, then the only agreement you can reasonably ask is that, if the coach later determines that your kid isn't good enough to play half games, then the coach will not stand in the way of moving to another team whether that is mid season or whenever.

No kid under 13 should be asked to go a full year without playing in real soccer games.  That is an eternity for a kid.  I wouldn't go more than a season at 1/2 games either.


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## soccermail2020 (Jun 15, 2021)

To clarify: playtime was not the focus of my post.  I believe that everything is earned and playtime should not be expected. 
Although it IS my belief that playtime is essential to the development of a player, that isn’t the reason for my suggestion regarding a contract. The mutually beneficial agreement that I would love to see established was more about a commitment between the coach and player to allow the kid enough time to “prove” themselves before being replaced.  That doesn’t mean that there won’t be other players on the team to share time with but I think it should mean that the coach isn’t recruiting replacements mid season. Kind of like a dead period to recruiting.


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## Woodwork (Jun 15, 2021)

soccermail2020 said:


> To clarify: playtime was not the focus of my post.  I believe that everything is earned and playtime should not be expected.
> Although it IS my belief that playtime is essential to the development of a player, that isn’t the reason for my suggestion regarding a contract. The mutually beneficial agreement that I would love to see established was more about a commitment between the coach and player to allow the kid enough time to “prove” themselves before being replaced.  That doesn’t mean that there won’t be other players on the team to share time with but I think it should mean that the coach isn’t recruiting replacements mid season. Kind of like a dead period to recruiting.


Implicit in what you are saying is that playtime should be expected if it is earned.  But, "earned" means different things to different coaches.  If a coach favors kids (who likely got more playing time) coming from another team, it may tell you something about how the coach thinks a spot is earned.


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## notintheface (Jun 15, 2021)

99% of what your kid is going to learn about the game is going to be learned during training sessions. Before you commit to a new team, watch a couple of sessions and check to see that the coach is providing feedback to all the players, not just yours. For youngers, that means primarily skills, with a bit of shape work thrown in. For olders, it depends on the level of the team but again you would expect mostly shape work and advanced movement.


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