# West Coast Classic 2017-Refs



## lbahn22 (Aug 13, 2017)

I want to make this post regarding the West Coast Classic Tournament this weekend (August 12-13). First off, both our first and second games of the tournament we had the same ref.  The problem was when our team tried to communicate with him about calls or how much time was left, he was unable to answer in English. The next problem was with the game we had today. Ref blew her whistle every second so there was no flow to the game and gave out 5 yellow cards.


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## smellycleats (Aug 13, 2017)

lbahn22 said:


> I want to make this post regarding the West Coast Classic Tournament this weekend (August 12-13). First off, both our first and second games of the tournament we had the same ref.  The problem was when our team tried to communicate with him about calls or how much time was left, he was unable to answer in English. The next problem was with the game we had today. Ref blew her whistle every second so there was no flow to the game and gave out 5 yellow cards.


 Are you the coach or are you a parent?


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## timbuck (Aug 13, 2017)

I wasn't there and I'm sure there were reasons for you to have this reaction. 
What age group?
Were all 5 yellow cards for the same team?
Were they all deserved? Were any of them?
What was the score outcome?
Was the whistle blowing consistent? Or was he letting some fouls go but blowing the whistle for something similar later on?
Did your coach try to adapt to the way the ref was calling the game?
Did you have on a watch with a countdown time?  Or a smart phone? Most tournaments don't allow for added time. I've found that most games end within +/- 30 seconds of the time that it is supposed to. Unless there is an injury or a lengthy stoppage, adding time is very rare.  
Why did you need to hear him speak?  Most calls are signaled using hands / cards / flags.


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## Surfref (Aug 13, 2017)

lbahn22 said:


> I want to make this post regarding the West Coast Classic Tournament this weekend (August 12-13). First off, both our first and second games of the tournament we had the same ref.  The problem was when our team tried to communicate with him about calls or how much time was left, he was unable to answer in English. The next problem was with the game we had today. Ref blew her whistle every second so there was no flow to the game and gave out 5 yellow cards.


Why does the referee need to speak English?  I lived in Japan for three years and refereed.  I spoke very little Japanese and was able to efficiently officiate games.  Whistle and hand/arm signals was all I needed. Why would you need to communicate with the ref about calls?  As for time, just use the stop watch function on your phone or watch.  I highly doubt the referee blew the whistle every 2 seconds.    Do you have any game video or a You Tube link.


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## Penalty Kicks Stink (Aug 13, 2017)

I was there this weekend and for the most part the refs were consistent and called good games.  The only issue I have lately in the last few tournaments is that they say " We are letting the girls play" which i get for the flow of games to stay on time but there were alot of dangerous plays and obvious calls that were not made and im afraid someone is going to get hurt


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## RedHawk (Aug 13, 2017)

Refs sucked this weekend.  I watched youngers games across three age groups and two different venues.  Inconsistent calls on the new header rules, not knowing the rules on the buildout line, inability to recognize what offsides is, etc. etc.  and yes I do feel its important to be able to communicate in a common language.


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## Monkey (Aug 13, 2017)

lbahn22 said:


> I want to make this post regarding the West Coast Classic Tournament this weekend (August 12-13). First off, both our first and second games of the tournament we had the same ref.  The problem was when our team tried to communicate with him about calls or how much time was left, he was unable to answer in English.


Are you sure the ref did not speak English?  Due to the behavior of some parents, I would think it would be easier to pretend not to understand them.  I saw a ref make a call this weekend that upset a few parents.  Because the parents could not get the CRs attention, they walked over to the AR that was on the oppositions side and started to bash the CR to him.  The AR tried to defend the CR and this was definitely the wrong thing to do.  It just encouraged them to argue more.


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## charlie murphy (Aug 13, 2017)

Surfref said:


> Why does the referee need to speak English?  I lived in Japan for three years and refereed.  I spoke very little Japanese and was able to efficiently officiate games.  Whistle and hand/arm signals was all I needed. Why would you need to communicate with the ref about calls?  As for time, just use the stop watch function on your phone or watch.  I highly doubt the referee blew the whistle every 2 seconds.    Do you have any game video or a You Tube link.


what good would video do? The video would only be as good as the editor, if you know what I mean. I there was truly a ref that one had issue with would there be anywhere one could direct the concern with a ref besides this forum .
When a tournament is set up is there any effort to have different  refs within a bracket so a team is not seeing the same center ref game after game. If it were the same team of refs could a team request a change of center ref and AR?


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## smellycleats (Aug 13, 2017)

Monkey said:


> Are you sure the ref did not speak English?  Due to the behavior of some parents, I would think it would be easier to pretend not to understand them.  I saw a ref make a call this weekend that upset a few parents.  Because the parents could not get the CRs attention, they walked over to the AR that was on the oppositions side and started to bash the CR to him.  The AR tried to defend the CR and this was definitely the wrong thing to do.  It just encouraged them to argue more.


Yes, communication between coach and ref is important. There is no reason why there should be communication between parent/spectators and ref unless the ref needs to tell the sidelines to move back or pipe down.


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## timbuck (Aug 13, 2017)

Was Lonzo Ball there?  Did anyone get told to "stay in their lane"?


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## Surfref (Aug 14, 2017)

smellycleats said:


> Yes, communication between coach and ref is important. There is no reason why there should be communication between parent/spectators and ref unless the ref needs to tell the sidelines to move back or pipe down.


What would the reason be for the referee and coach to have a long or short verbal conversation during the game?

I am sure one of the AR's spoke English.  If there really was a need for an in depth conversation between Referee and Coach than they would have figured out how to facilitate it. But, I cannot think of a reason why I would stop the game to have a long conversation with a coach during the game.  I worked with a referee that was deaf during the Disney tournament two years ago.  He had no problem controlling the game or communicating with the coach or players.


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## Justafan (Aug 14, 2017)

RedHawk said:


> and yes I do feel its important to be able to communicate in a common language.


You still didn't answer the question as to why?  The only person who should possibly care about communication with a ref is your coach.  Did your coach complain? A ref has no obligation to talk to parents or explain anything to parents.


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## Striker17 (Aug 14, 2017)

Should not even have refs 2006 and below. If two coaches can't control 8 year old games on a short field and the crazy parent sidelines we have much bigger problems. Waste of money and time for clubs


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## Dargle (Aug 14, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> Should not even have refs 2006 and below. If two coaches can't control 8 year old games on a short field and the crazy parent sidelines we have much bigger problems. Waste of money and time for clubs


2006s are generally 11 years-old (or will turn 11 soon) and starting middle school, but that's not the real issue.  The problem is usually from people who are quite a bit older than the kids playing the game.


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## RedHawk (Aug 14, 2017)

Justafan said:


> You still didn't answer the question as to why?  The only person who should possibly care about communication with a ref is your coach.  Did your coach complain? A ref has no obligation to talk to parents or explain anything to parents.


I'm not the original poster and didn't realize I needed to state my opinion and provide an essay why its my opinion.


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## bababooey (Aug 14, 2017)

My dd will be U15 this year and I want to point a few things out and see what the rest of you think:
1. I really don't care about offsides, hand balls, foul throw-ins, etc. anymore. These calls are usually so subjective, that it tends to even out over the course of the game.
2. I do care about player safety. Maybe I am in the minority here, but I think the referee needs to set the tone of the game early. Some games seem very "sporting" between the two teams and other games seem like "bloodsport" out there. I realize that the referee can do only so much, but don't be afraid to give a yellow card early in the game if a foul warrants it. Don't be afraid to stop play for a minute and explain to a player that a certain style of play will not be allowed. These players are smart, they can figure it out.
3. The more I see parents yelling and screaming at the players (from both teams) and the referees, the more I cannot wait for this to be over. We (parents) are supposed to be the role models for our children and so many times it is the parents that act far more immature during games than the players.
4. Some coaches need to do a better job controlling their sidelines. I realize that they are across the field from the parents, but let the parents know that players will be lose playing time if the parent acts like a fool on the sideline.
5. Parents should NEVER talk to the referee during the game. We as parents are there to watch our child play, not critique the referee calls. Believe it or not, every referee will miss calls during the game.
6. Parents should never try to coach a player from the sideline. Isn't that was we are paying the coach to do?

Just my two cents.


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## MA0812 (Aug 14, 2017)

We had a terrible experience with our refs as well at the YAP field. The ref lost complete control of the game and two kids were hurt as a result. In addition the calls that were made were terrible for both teams and goals were scored as a result which impacted the game. The center ref was physically unable to get up and down the field which is unacceptable when we travel to play in these tournaments. Our ref also refused to acknowledge the coaches for an explanation of any of the calls. All in all poorly managed games which not only led to injuries but impacted the outcomes.


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## Art (Aug 14, 2017)

This is a subjective game. This post was rather unneeded, life isnt fair so we cant expect a game created by humans to be perfect. For the bitching and complaints refs get against the money and hours their physically moving its rather unappreciative from the parents and players.

As a ref, majority of the time these games get out of hands is when the teams are of a lower technical/tactical level. I was at the galaxy cup at UCLA, and the last game I centered was of a game where coaches were poor tactically and their players werent being instructed the right way to play. Now this is where the winning part comes in...these coaches just care about wins.

Surprisingly I heard no complaints from any of the parents in previous games, the understanding was there.

As for players getting hurt...a referee handing out a cautionor red card after a player gets seriously hurt doesnt change the situation of the player being hurt. Sometimes a game goes so well but a sudden moment of madness happens where a player loses it and does something crazy. Hard to fault a ref for that.

Your not gonna get the best refs every game or consistently, this is a part time job that revolved around our daily schedule..so be happy with some refs rather than none.

The parents that are upset about soneone getting hurt are ususlly upset about their team losing tbh, I've noticed the reActions of "its a penalty!!" When they dont even care to address the player getting hurt...how does the penalty make up for player safety?? Now dont get me wrong if its a penalty, its a penalty but the milking of a situation that isn't really a foul by parents is ludicrous.

When I step out on to a field I never have any bias towards players, the only thing I'm worried about is how the "spectators" influence the players! Seen it too many times.


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## MA0812 (Aug 14, 2017)

Art said:


> This is a subjective game. This post was rather unneeded, life isnt fair so we cant expect a game created by humans to be perfect. For the bitching and complaints refs get against the money and hours their physically moving its rather unappreciative from the parents and players.
> 
> As a ref, majority of the time these games get out of hands is when the teams are of a lower technical/tactical level. I was at the galaxy cup at UCLA, and the last game I centered was of a game where coaches were poor tactically and their players werent being instructed the right way to play. Now this is where the winning part comes in...these coaches just care about wins.
> 
> ...


Agree on all levels in a general sense. Tough job, little pay, and will never please most. In this case however, players were hurt as a result of not effectively managing the field and that slowly got more and more out of control eventually leading to injuries. Both teams were skilled but players will push the line. The line wasn't held by the the person tasked with the job and being paid to do the job and kids were hurt. The tone wasn't set. There wasn't a disparity in issues between the winning or losing teams and both were high skilled flight 1 teams. It was collecting money for a job not done in this case and zero ownership. This case was specific and not a generalization. Other games were managed effectively. Respect and credibility are earned through action not a green jersey.


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## Lambchop (Aug 14, 2017)

Art said:


> This is a subjective game. This post was rather unneeded, life isnt fair so we cant expect a game created by humans to be perfect. For the bitching and complaints refs get against the money and hours their physically moving its rather unappreciative from the parents and players.
> 
> As a ref, majority of the time these games get out of hands is when the teams are of a lower technical/tactical level. I was at the galaxy cup at UCLA, and the last game I centered was of a game where coaches were poor tactically and their players werent being instructed the right way to play. Now this is where the winning part comes in...these coaches just care about wins.
> 
> ...


   Agree with most of what you said with the exception of one thing.  Recently at the Surf Cup in  younger team competition, the CR literally did not move out of the center circle for 90% or more of the game.  He was elderly and quite over weight and should not be referring a soccer game.  I realize it is hard to get enough refs, but seriously, in  a tournament that is supposed to be the best of the best, the ref should be able to move  somewhat with the flow of the game.  By the way, I did not have a player in the two games I saw him referring that weekend.


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## Art (Aug 14, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> Agree with most of what you said with the exception of one thing.  Recently at the Surf Cup in  younger team competition, the CR literally did not move out of the center circle for 90% or more of the game.  He was elderly and quite over weight and should not be referring a soccer game.  I realize it is hard to get enough refs, but seriously, in  a tournament that is supposed to be the best of the best, the ref should be able to move  somewhat with the flow of the game.  By the way, I did not have a player in the two games I saw him referring that weekend.


Ive worked with quite a few like that, some do.just fine with minimal movement, because their experienced, but this is a case of not retaining more younger referees, im 21! I've seen older guys get games just because their buds with the assignors, theirs favoritism going on. 

Its a lack of a referee pool, even tho we've been told theres 6500 referees in Calsouth. Just that the tournamentd are poorly compensated and most refs dont do them, some just do the regular season.

I understand the frustration there with the older and heavier refs, but their is a referee retention problem, along with the travel for 60 or more miles only some are willing to do..for surf cup ik referees that go 150 miles for it!! But again its a lack of resources. We just need to be respectful in these situations, we cant turn on each other, especially the referee. You can make your concern known through the tournament coordinator.


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## Multi Sport (Aug 14, 2017)

RedHawk said:


> , inability to recognize what offsides is, etc. etc.  and yes I do feel its important to be able to communicate in a common language.


I believe you mean "offside".

The common language is the refs hand signals.


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## Multi Sport (Aug 14, 2017)

MA0812 said:


> We had a terrible experience with our refs as well at the YAP field. The ref lost complete control of the game and two kids were hurt as a result. In addition the calls that were made were terrible for both teams and goals were scored as a result which impacted the game. The center ref was physically unable to get up and down the field which is unacceptable when we travel to play in these tournaments. Our ref also refused to acknowledge the coaches for an explanation of any of the calls. All in all poorly managed games which not only led to injuries but impacted the outcomes.


Games don't go out of control because of a bad ref. They go out of control because of bad coaches and sidelines. Can a bad ref change the outcome of a game? Yes. Does a bad ref teach a kid to take out another player? No. Can a ref contribute to a game going out of control? Yes. But it starts with the parents and coach.


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## espola (Aug 14, 2017)

Multi Sport said:


> Games don't go out of control because of a bad ref. They go out of control because of bad coaches and sidelines. Can a bad ref change the outcome of a game? Yes. Does a bad ref teach a kid to take out another player? No. Can a ref contribute to a game going out of control? Yes. But it starts with the parents and coach.


An exceptional referee will recognize the signs of a game heading into the toilet and take action to stop it.


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## MA0812 (Aug 14, 2017)

Multi Sport said:


> Games don't go out of control because of a bad ref. They go out of control because of bad coaches and sidelines. Can a bad ref change the outcome of a game? Yes. Does a bad ref teach a kid to take out another player? No. Can a ref contribute to a game going out of control? Yes. But it starts with the parents and coach.


Agree. Few benched players or some yellow/red cards usually tone it down. Wasn't a parent problem. It was just bad all around and not the norm but worth pointing out especially for a quality tournament like West Coast. This particular ref struggled to leave the center circle due to being extremely overweight. Socal problems with so many teams and limited number of refs.


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## Multi Sport (Aug 14, 2017)

espola said:


> An exceptional referee will recognize the signs of a game heading into the toilet and take action to stop it.


Sure he or she will. But they are not the cause of it.


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## MA0812 (Aug 14, 2017)

Police are not the cause of a felon robbing a bank but it is their job to stop it when they see it happen.


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## Justafan (Aug 14, 2017)

RedHawk said:


> I'm not the original poster and didn't realize I needed to state my opinion and provide an essay why its my opinion.


Then your opinion carries little to no weight.  It's like a kid answering "because" to a "why" question.


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## mirage (Aug 14, 2017)

bababooey said:


> My dd will be U15 this year and I want to point a few things out and see what the rest of you think:
> 1. I really don't care about offsides, hand balls, foul throw-ins, etc. anymore. These calls are usually so subjective, that it tends to even out over the course of the game.
> 2. I do care about player safety. Maybe I am in the minority here, but I think the referee needs to set the tone of the game early. Some games seem very "sporting" between the two teams and other games seem like "bloodsport" out there. I realize that the referee can do only so much, but don't be afraid to give a yellow card early in the game if a foul warrants it. Don't be afraid to stop play for a minute and explain to a player that a certain style of play will not be allowed. These players are smart, they can figure it out.
> 3. The more I see parents yelling and screaming at the players (from both teams) and the referees, the more I cannot wait for this to be over. We (parents) are supposed to be the role models for our children and so many times it is the parents that act far more immature during games than the players.
> ...


So a question....

When is it ok to be screaming, yelling totally biased fan? 

While I agree with most of your post (except 1 - it does matter and should not be as bad as it is in most games), when we see the sideline at college football or basketball games, its not exactly supportive or sporting behavior toward the opponents or even our own players, when they make mistakes.  The behavior is amplified in pro games. 

These players are all "children" of some parents and at what point do we hold players more accountable for their own performance and conduct on the field?

Since you've mentioned your kid is U15, it is considered "olders" now and do we flip the switch?

Assuming that we're all talking about competitive sports and not rec, part of the player development is learning to win, lose, handle criticism and complements, unfair/bad calls and most of all deal with crazy (parents) fans on the side line.  I've seen players talk back to other team's parents using 4 letter words and racial slurs....  

Obviously I'm being rhetorical but don't make it sound like its all parents, coaches and ref's that turn a game into a sour situation.  Players have lot to do with it....


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## Multi Sport (Aug 14, 2017)

MA0812 said:


> Police are not the cause of a felon robbing a bank but it is their job to stop it when they see it happen.


Yes... but refs can only give out Yellow and Red cards.


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## Multi Sport (Aug 14, 2017)

mirage said:


> So a question....
> 
> When is it ok to be screaming, yelling totally biased fan?
> 
> ...


Nice post..

Your are right,  players, especially the olders need to be responsible for their actions. Where I was going is more where did they learn it from and who is enforcing it.

And you're also spot on in regards to the players are all someones kid. Even at the highest level, professional sports can be cruel for a parent or relative. Nobody like to hear that their kid/relative sucks. But usually people at youth soccer games are parents/relatives and they should act accordingly.  As should the coaches..


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## smellycleats (Aug 14, 2017)

Surfref said:


> What would the reason be for the referee and coach to have a long or short verbal conversation during the game?
> 
> I am sure one of the AR's spoke English.  If there really was a need for an in depth conversation between Referee and Coach than they would have figured out how to facilitate it. But, I cannot think of a reason why I would stop the game to have a long conversation with a coach during the game.  I worked with a referee that was deaf during the Disney tournament two years ago.  He had no problem controlling the game or communicating with the coach or players.


I never said a long conversation, but sometimes the ref and coach exchange a few words-


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## Dr. Richard Hurtz (Aug 14, 2017)

Blah blah blah...  I know I hate refs too..  from the professional games all the way down to AYSO. My kid is one of the cleanest players out there and he gets fouled 12 times a game., unnecessarily and sometimes ruthlessly. Yes, you may be a volunteer ref. Yes; is a crappy job, yes it may be part time, yes it doesn't pay shit but guess what?? If you're a ref and you chose to be a ref then I don't give a f$&k.. you chose this. So hand out the yellow card, hand out the reds, suspend a few players and get the game under control. Also, learn the offsides rule, learn the laws of the games before you even choose to do this. If I went to work without knowing what the hell i was doing I'd get fired.  This is why I hate refs. You all think you're experts after taking a one hour class or something or read a soccer guide. So I don't care if you don't get paid well or it's a part time job for you or you're a volunteer. Do what you do cause you love the beautiful game. Go educate yourself as much as you can with the laws of the game so you'll actually be good at what you do, become a ref because you love soccer,, not because you love kids and want to volunteer ( that isn't helping if you don't really know squat about soccer)  and throw out a yellow and red card every now and then...  you want to be a ref?  Become a true soccer player first then you'll understand. This goes out too any ref who has not served my son well. My son getting hacked a thousand times a game and you do nothing. Thanks a lot. I as a parent don't give a rats ass about you. Thanks. If you're a true soccer player as well as a ref I'm sorry if I offended.


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## Dr. Richard Hurtz (Aug 14, 2017)

And if anyone says " well then;  we will have a shortage of refs cause no one wants to do it"  Good!!  Let's play with out them and let the kids govern themselves just like we use too when we were kids playing soccer in a dirt patch somewhere. It'll sort itself out. Better to have no ref than a ref that does nothing.


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## Art (Aug 14, 2017)

Im going to assume, Dr richard durtz is a troll....please for the sake of humanity shut your incompetent mouth up pleaseeee. Your the example of the most annoyingly idiotic parent that we see out there on the sidelines. I find it hard to believe a foul doesnt get called for your kid. 

Your an example of why this country has gone downhill in terms of respect and competence. The crap that came out of your mouth reminds me of a neo-nazi...

Your so knowledgeable on the laws of the game? Get out there and do it! Actually if your so scared abour your kid getting hurt maybe take up chess...

This troll said give out yellow and red cards...so what happens? Your sons tesm.gains an advantage on the field? See the type of parent that only cares about the game and not the wellbeing of their child when you mention yellow and red cards...your kid is just as likely to get injured getting out of your van as he could from a slight tug of a shirt...goodbye. Good riddance.


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## Dr. Richard Hurtz (Aug 15, 2017)

Believe it or not Art. I'm one of the coolest parents out there. I'm not yelling or cheering at all. I'm just a parent who video tapes the games. I stand there with my mouth shut. You don't know who I am. My kid plays at one of the higher levels attached to MLS so I have to behave. Sorry to offend you but I thought this was a forum and I'm just putting my opinions about refs. So why am I a troll?  Is it because I don't yell at these matches probably like you perhaps?


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## Dr. Richard Hurtz (Aug 15, 2017)

And I do play chess every day on my phone haha


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## Justafan (Aug 15, 2017)

smellycleats said:


> I never said a long conversation, but sometimes the ref and coach exchange a few words-


Did your coach complain that he or she could not communicate with the ref?


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## Surfref (Aug 15, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> Agree with most of what you said with the exception of one thing.  Recently at the Surf Cup in  younger team competition, the CR literally did not move out of the center circle for 90% or more of the game.  He was elderly and quite over weight and should not be referring a soccer game.  I realize it is hard to get enough refs, but seriously, in  a tournament that is supposed to be the best of the best, the ref should be able to move  somewhat with the flow of the game.  By the way, I did not have a player in the two games I saw him referring that weekend.


If you are referencing the 7v7 games at Surf Cup, those fields were so small that it only took a couple steps to go from midfield to the top of the penalty area.


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## Surfref (Aug 15, 2017)

MA0812 said:


> ...... Our ref also refused to acknowledge the coaches for an explanation of any of the calls.....


Let's clarify something.  The referee is not required to give an explanation of any calls.  No where in the LOTG does it say the referee must tell anyone what the foul call was for, why they didn't call a foul, why they called a PK, or why they decided a direction for a throw-in or goal/corner kick.  I watched the Galaxy game this past weekend and not once did the referee explain a call to the coaches.  What makes you think that a youth coach has special privileges that entitle them to an explanation?


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## Sheriff Joe (Aug 15, 2017)

lbahn22 said:


> I want to make this post regarding the West Coast Classic Tournament this weekend (August 12-13). First off, both our first and second games of the tournament we had the same ref.  The problem was when our team tried to communicate with him about calls or how much time was left, he was unable to answer in English. The next problem was with the game we had today. Ref blew her whistle every second so there was no flow to the game and gave out 5 yellow cards.


Why the hell would you expect someone hired to ref a game in the USA, to speak the language of said country?
WTF is wrong with you?
You are obviously a Trump loving racist.


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## Dr. Richard Hurtz (Aug 15, 2017)

Handing out yellows and reds serve a purpose. It teaches the kids to play more cautiously so you won't miss the next game because of suspensions. I was a hacker too when I was a boy..  then I grew up and surrounded myself with better players and learned more control where there wasn't a need to foul and kick at ankles from behind. Refs aren't needed at this age. I don't keep score. I just want my sons development. Good luck to you Arty Smarty Pants


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## coachrefparent (Aug 15, 2017)

Dr. Richard Hurtz said:


> Handing out yellows and reds serve a purpose. It teaches the kids to play more cautiously so you won't miss the next game because of suspensions. I was a hacker too when I was a boy..  then I grew up and surrounded myself with better players and learned more control where there wasn't a need to foul and kick at ankles from behind. Refs aren't needed at this age. I don't keep score. I just want my sons development. Good luck to you Arty Smarty Pants


I see no one arguing that yellows and reds shouldn't be shown when appropriate. You want them shown "more" but then argue referees are not needed at this age ???

All of the ref bashing posts are the same: claims that the refs sucked with no one able to verify if it is true=worthless arguments.

Last weekend as a spectator  I saw multiple parents and coaches yell and scream and misstate the laws. Even when  confronted that these weren't the rules, they just doubled down and looked and sounded more foolish. BUT THEY ALL *100% KNEW THE REF BLEW THE CALL, AND THEY WERE 100% WRONG. *I've  found thst the most vocal, are the most ignorant.

Yes refs missed some calls, as they always do. Without video, discussion here about the correctness  (or  not) of any call is worthless and circuitous.

*Does your "Richard Hurt" because your kid flops a lot?*


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## Sons of Pitches (Aug 15, 2017)

Dr. Richard Hurtz said:


> Handing out yellows and reds serve a purpose. It teaches the kids to play more cautiously so you won't miss the next game because of suspensions. I was a hacker too when I was a boy..  then I grew up and surrounded myself with better players and learned more control where there wasn't a need to foul and kick at ankles from behind. Refs aren't needed at this age. I don't keep score. I just want my sons development. Good luck to you Arty Smarty Pants


"then i grew up" - with a name like Dick Hurtz - I don't think you ever grew up


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## bababooey (Aug 15, 2017)

mirage said:


> So a question....
> 
> When is it ok to be screaming, yelling totally biased fan? - *I don't think we ever need to be totally biased. We are all naturally biased, but why can't we appreciate that the other team/players are playing well? Sure, I want my dd's team to win and play well, but I don't need to act like a lunatic from the sideline for that to happen.*
> 
> ...


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## Art (Aug 15, 2017)

The pathetic nature of his user name along with the cringy "arty smarty pants" phrase. This one poster contradicts himself crazily. Says no refs but wants cards...was a hacker then complains about his son being hacked. Whats funny is that he talks about what a true soccer player is hahaha, doesnt even know the game well enough to make that claim.


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## chefsilver (Aug 15, 2017)

We played West Coast last weekend my only concern with any tournament is the CR and AR`s should be able to jog. We had a CR call a foul in the box from 35-40 yards out because she was unable to jog at any point durning the game. This is know disrespect to any ref or over weight person, but she was over weight and had two knee braces on. The CR never left the center circle in are game, DD is U13.


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## Justafan (Aug 15, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Why the hell would you expect someone hired to ref a game in the USA, to speak the language of said country?
> WTF is wrong with you?
> You are obviously a Trump loving racist.


All substance here Joe.  Labels are weak.  Still, no one has answered the question whether the coach had ANY problem whatsoever communicating with the ref.  I would bet ALL refs speak enough English to communicate the essentials with a coach, even though it is not required.

If you read between the lines of ibahn's post, it appears he/she was upset at some type of call, asked the ref for an explanation, and didn't get one.  From there, ibahn assumes the ref's failure to respond was because the ref did not speak English.   If this is not what happened, please explain.  No one has. 

Nonetheless, there is some ambiguity in ibahn's post when he/she indicates that the ref didn't answer in English.  So did the ref understand  the question in English, but chose to answer in another language?  Again, no explanation.

You know there is a saying in law, when you have the facts, pound the facts; when you have the law, pound the law; when you have none, pound the table.  Sounds like a lot of table pounding here.


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## MWN (Aug 15, 2017)

chefsilver said:


> We played West Coast last weekend my only concern with any tournament is the CR and AR`s should be able to jog. We had a CR call a foul in the box from 35-40 yards out because she was unable to jog at any point during the game. This is know disrespect to any ref or over weight person, but she was over weight and had two knee braces on. The CR never left the center circle in are game, DD is U13.


I'll mirror the comments of @Art a page or two back, which is that there is a lack of qualified referees in Cal South willing to do "competitive" soccer games.   The vast majority will only work recreational soccer games and are Grade 9 and Grade 8 youth.  The Grade 8-5 and emeritus referees that belong to Referee Associations is only a handful of the approximate 48k referees in the system.

While a Grade 8 can be a center and many do center the typical youth referee (under 17) do not.  That leaves only the adult Grade 8's and the Grade 7-5's to center these higher level games.

For us old guys, I'm good for 1 game at high motor (for me running about 2-3 miles during an olders game).  The second game I'm jogging and not as close to the action, but I'm there.  The 3rd game I'm doing much more walking ... my feet are killing me and strategic positioning.  The 4th game I'm in traction.

The young guys can do 3-4 games without losing a beat.

For this reason, I choose not make myself available for the olders and like the uLittles (U12 and below), smaller fields, less running, crazy ass parents, etc.  I leave the olders to the fitter crowd, but inevitably my assignor is pleading and begging for somebody with "center" experience to take an older game or two during XYZ tournament.

This last weekend there were 9 tournaments in SoCal.  The referee pool was stretched with assignors looking for whoever they could.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Aug 15, 2017)

The problem will get worse as the older refs retire.  I dont see millenials wanting to earn a few bucks a game and deal with all the heckling from parents that called the wrong play on a U-little tournament that means nothing to the soccer world outside of the 20 parents yelling at the ref. 

Guys, it's youth soccer, let's put things into perspective.  Refs will make wrong calls at all levels of soccer.   Personally I think that the parent that yells the most should automatically become a sideline ref for their next game.


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## coachrefparent (Aug 15, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> The problem will get worse as the older refs retire.  I dont see millenials wanting to earn a few bucks a game and deal with all the heckling from parents that called the wrong play on a U-little tournament that means nothing to the soccer world outside of the 20 parents yelling at the ref.
> 
> Guys, it's youth soccer, let's put things into perspective.  Refs will make wrong calls at all levels of soccer.   Personally I think that the parent that yells the most should automatically become a sideline ref for their next game.


$20 an hour is pretty good pay for a high-schooler. Can't get that anywhere else. Many competitive players are realizing this and signing up. But its true that you have to learn how to tune out the crazies, and need support from older referees to get comfortable.


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## Dr. Richard Hurtz (Aug 15, 2017)

You know what?? You all are right. I'm not even on the right forum. What the hell is west coast tournament?  This must have something to do with coast soccer league..  my bad. I'm use to tournaments like Generation Adidas. I apologize. Let me go back to the Development academy forum. But thanks for letting me reminisce those Cal South days haha. Good luck


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## Art (Aug 15, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> $20 an hour is pretty good pay for a high-schooler. Can't get that anywhere else. Many competitive players are realizing this and signing up. But its true that you have to learn how to tune out the crazies, and need support from older referees to get comfortable.


I'm 21 and a millenial as soccerfan4life puts it. The pay is competitive and even more at times than the 20 per hour coachrefparent mentioned. 

However the bigger issue here is the older refs retiring and not enough of a pool left. That could be accounted for by having games scheduled towards evenings at times, because some could do more than 5 games and would fit some others schedules better..but thats a plan B.

What Calsouth and USSf needs to do is set up a strategic plan for retaining and gaining new referees much like how they develop plans for developing youth soccer yada yada. There is plenty of youth taking this up, but not all are cut out to be a ref for various factors that have been mentioned. It takes patience, a good attention span/focus, and most importantly committment! You have to do it consistently and take a liking to it. Do any of your sons and daughters play soccer and DONT like it? I hope not.

Out of all those that are registered today there are about 20-30% that are not active and wont do any games, that would cut out toughly 1/3rd of the referee pool. 

I would suggest plan B/C would be to eliminate the ban on having a 2 man/dual system for a game. If it works out fine for a highschool game it should work well enough for most games at club level. Better pay with it, more focus involved. If you have 2 relatively average referees, you could have them do 5 games with just a lil sweat. But we know that will ruffle a few feathers with the calsouth soccer gods!


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## Sons of Pitches (Aug 15, 2017)

Dr. Richard Hurtz said:


> You know what?? You all are right. I'm not even on the right forum. What the hell is west coast tournament?  This must have something to do with coast soccer league..  my bad. I'm use to tournaments like Generation Adidas. I apologize. Let me go back to the Development academy forum. But thanks for letting me reminisce those Cal South days haha. Good luck


Think you should change your screen name to Butt Hurtz


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## Sheriff Joe (Aug 15, 2017)

Justafan said:


> All substance here Joe.  Labels are weak.  Still, no one has answered the question whether the coach had ANY problem whatsoever communicating with the ref.  I would bet ALL refs speak enough English to communicate the essentials with a coach, even though it is not required.
> 
> If you read between the lines of ibahn's post, it appears he/she was upset at some type of call, asked the ref for an explanation, and didn't get one.  From there, ibahn assumes the ref's failure to respond was because the ref did not speak English.   If this is not what happened, please explain.  No one has.
> 
> ...


You are probably right.


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## outside! (Aug 15, 2017)

Art said:


> I would suggest plan B/C would be to eliminate the ban on having a 2 man/dual system for a game. If it works out fine for a highschool game it should work well enough for most games at club level. Better pay with it, more focus involved. If you have 2 relatively average referees, you could have them do 5 games with just a lil sweat. But we know that will ruffle a few feathers with the calsouth soccer gods!


I am not a fan of the two referee system and do not believe it works well in the high school game. I do not want to see it in the club game. I do agree that the organizations that oversee youth soccer should have a plan to train and retain referees.


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## Art (Aug 15, 2017)

outside! said:


> I am not a fan of the two referee system and do not believe it works well in the high school game. I do not want to see it in the club game. I do agree that the organizations that oversee youth soccer should have a plan to train and retain referees.


I see your into the whole FIFA thing for the youth level..., if its implementation is correct then there would be no conplaints. Reason why you have a oppositon is because you dont see it implemented correctly, but here we have 3 man system DSC and it still has flaws and issues because of certain factors. Nothings perfect. 2 man system just helps having a greater pool of refs available for games.


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## Surfref (Aug 15, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> $20 an hour is pretty good pay for a high-schooler. Can't get that anywhere else. Many competitive players are realizing this and signing up. But its true that you have to learn how to tune out the crazies, and need support from older referees to get comfortable.


My DD has seven 60 minutes game this weekend and will come home with $240 after 6 hours of work. That is an average $34 an hour.  Much easier and better money than the $13 an hour job she was working and she gets some exercise.  Not bad money for a full time soccer playing college student.


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## Surfref (Aug 15, 2017)

Art said:


> I would suggest plan B/C would be to eliminate the ban on having a 2 man/dual system for a game. If it works out fine for a highschool game it should work well enough for most games at club level. Better pay with it, more focus involved. If you have 2 relatively average referees, you could have them do 5 games with just a lil sweat. But we know that will ruffle a few feathers with the calsouth soccer gods!


I like the dual referee idea.  It would work really well for the 7v7 and 9v9 games.  Definitely no dual system in the 11v11 games.  HS games are no where near as fast or competitive as club games.


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## Art (Aug 15, 2017)

Surfref said:


> My DD has seven 60 minutes game this weekend and will come home with $240 after 6 hours of work. That is an average $34 an hour.  Much easier and better money than the $13 an hour job she was working and she gets some exercise.  Not bad money for a full time soccer playing college student.


The pay rate in your area is way better than in Los Angeles region or even tourneys at corona and such...tournaments are roughly 1.30 a minute here, with 3 man system of course...so Idk if our associations are cheaping out or what..do you know your fee schedule per minute?


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## Sparky9 (Aug 15, 2017)

Gu15 games at OCGP were well officiated. One team was out of control in our flight, but was getting carded. They were given  several yellows and a red. 
Lots of injuries at this age piling up so I would like to see a few more yellows flashed early in games if warranted to keep a game clean.


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## Surfref (Aug 16, 2017)

Art said:


> The pay rate in your area is way better than in Los Angeles region or even tourneys at corona and such...tournaments are roughly 1.30 a minute here, with 3 man system of course...so Idk if our associations are cheaping out or what..do you know your fee schedule per minute?


The two San Diego associations pay $1.60 per minute with that going up to $1.70 in January 2018.  The two associations have different breakdowns for CR and AR. SDSRA pays more to the CR than SDCSRA, but if you are working a 3 game set with CR AR AR then it is the same.  Most SD refs get games from both associations.  I make the best money working the military games on base that pay $54 for a 60 minute dual system. I usually get a three game set once a week in the evening.  High school also pays well with $65 for an 80 minute varsity game, dual system.

You definitely need to find out why your pay schedule is so much lower and maybe find another association.  Which association do you work for?

http://www.sdsrarefs.com/referee-fee-schedule/


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## bababooey (Aug 16, 2017)

Sparky9 said:


> Gu15 games at OCGP were well officiated. One team was out of control in our flight, but was getting carded. They were given  several yellows and a red.
> *Lots of injuries at this age piling up so I would like to see a few more yellows flashed early in games if warranted to keep a game clean.*


I could not agree more with the underlined comment. Thanks.


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## espola (Aug 16, 2017)

Surfref said:


> The two San Diego associations pay $1.60 per minute with that going up to $1.70 in January 2018.  The two associations have different breakdowns for CR and AR. SDSRA pays more to the CR than SDCSRA, but if you are working a 3 game set with CR AR AR then it is the same.  Most SD refs get games from both associations.  I make the best money working the military games on base that pay $54 for a 60 minute dual system. I usually get a three game set once a week in the evening.  High school also pays well with $65 for an 80 minute varsity game, dual system.
> 
> You definitely need to find out why your pay schedule is so much lower and maybe find another association.  Which association do you work for?
> 
> http://www.sdsrarefs.com/referee-fee-schedule/


How good are those military games?


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## Art (Aug 16, 2017)

Surfref said:


> The two San Diego associations pay $1.60 per minute with that going up to $1.70 in January 2018.  The two associations have different breakdowns for CR and AR. SDSRA pays more to the CR than SDCSRA, but if you are working a 3 game set with CR AR AR then it is the same.  Most SD refs get games from both associations.  I make the best money working the military games on base that pay $54 for a 60 minute dual system. I usually get a three game set once a week in the evening.  High school also pays well with $65 for an 80 minute varsity game, dual system.
> 
> You definitely need to find out why your pay schedule is so much lower and maybe find another association.  Which association do you work for?
> 
> http://www.sdsrarefs.com/referee-fee-schedule/


Before you told me SDSRA I did some difging and founs the fee schedule on your associations site ahah. I am trying to figure out why the fee schedule up here is so low...looks like tournament games are payin better for you guys down there, better than league as I see it against the minutes. 

I work with Upper Desert, SCSRA, and their usually getting games from Long beach association. So Idk if LB is sellin them short or their just giving a lower rate so they acquire more tournaments. In my area LB is the biggest association and does games everywhere from surf to the UCLA cup and even games in Corona at silverlakes. Find it odd really..contacted George (state referee administrator) and he couldnt give me a straight answer, smells fishy.


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## SoCal GK mom (Aug 16, 2017)

Sparky9 said:


> Gu15 games at OCGP were well officiated. One team was out of control in our flight, but was getting carded. They were given  several yellows and a red.
> Lots of injuries at this age piling up so I would like to see a few more yellows flashed early in games if warranted to keep a game clean.


I second Sparky's comments. I actually saw the best youth soccer reffing I've ever seen on Saturday in GU15 at West Coast. The ref began the game by addressing the parents, acknowledging that they were likely to yell at refs, as if they were yelling at a tv. He offered that after three errors per half, parents were allowed to boo him. By doing this, he got the parents on his side and despite a few small mistaken calls (throw in/ goalkick vs. corner), there was very little complaining from the sidelines. He had great game management and was balanced and fair. And most importantly, the girls played good, safe soccer. Kudos to him and the tournament- I know we'd all love to see more refs like him.


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## coachrefparent (Aug 16, 2017)

SoCal GK mom said:


> I second Sparky's comments. I actually saw the best youth soccer reffing I've ever seen on Saturday in GU15 at West Coast. The ref began the game by addressing the parents, acknowledging that they were likely to yell at refs, as if they were yelling at a tv. He offered that after three errors per half, parents were allowed to boo him. By doing this, he got the parents on his side and despite a few small mistaken calls (throw in/ goalkick vs. corner), there was very little complaining from the sidelines. He had great game management and was balanced and fair. And most importantly, the girls played good, safe soccer. Kudos to him and the tournament- I know we'd all love to see more refs like him.


But who decides if it's an error? If it worked, great. But in my experience, parents would be booing in the first 5 minutes even if there were no real errors.


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## SoCal GK mom (Aug 16, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> But who decides if it's an error? If it worked, great. But in my experience, parents would be booing in the first 5 minutes even if there were no real errors.


He actually acknowledged a few possible missed calls, "ok, that might be one of your three..." It made the relationship human instead of adversarial. Come to think of it, that kind of leadership could really help us on a national level, too.


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## The Driver (Aug 16, 2017)

Coaches that yell don't foul to their defenders + out of shape refs = bad calls

I really don't think they try to blow calls when they do.


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## Surfref (Aug 16, 2017)

Art said:


> The pay rate in your area is way better than in Los Angeles region or even tourneys at corona and such...tournaments are roughly 1.30 a minute here, with 3 man system of course...so Idk if our associations are cheaping out or what..do you know your fee schedule per minute?


Check the link on my other post.  Maybe the assignees are taking a larger cut than our assigners.  Bring it up at your next ref association meeting.  I know my two main associations negotiate have d to get us more pay.


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## Surfref (Aug 16, 2017)

espola said:


> How good are those military games?


They vary greatly.  We have a few players that played on the Albion semi-pro team, ex-college players, ex-club players all the way to players that only played at recess in school.  It is 9v9 and each team must have at least one female on the field or play with 8 players.  There is also a mercy rule, if one team is ahead by 5 goals with 15 minutes remaining in the game than the game is over.  We have a mercy rule game about 25% of the time.  There are only 8 of us refs and the Grades vary from 6 to 8 with one emeritus.  The ref badges are really cool looking.  There are three seasons spring, summer and fall.  Play location varies by the season.  We have teams from ships, shore commands and Marines


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## Lambchop (Aug 17, 2017)

Surfref said:


> If you are referencing the 7v7 games at Surf Cup, those fields were so small that it only took a couple steps to go from midfield to the top of the penalty area.


I have seen these same refs attempting games with older players and it is sad.  Maybe big tournaments need to pay the refs more to get physically fit, experienced refs for the games.  There has to be a way to do that beyond the "set" fees.  I am sure the refs are doing it because they love the game or want to keep busy if they are retired, but at some point you say ok, time to move on.  If there truly are 6,500 refs in Socal, as someone stated, tournament officials should be able to get appropriate refs, unless of course politics are part of it.


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## Art (Aug 17, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> I have seen these same refs attempting games with older players and it is sad.  Maybe big tournaments need to pay the refs more to get physically fit, experienced refs for the games.  There has to be a way to do that beyond the "set" fees.  I am sure the refs are doing it because they love the game or want to keep busy if they are retired, but at some point you say ok, time to move on.  If there truly are 6,500 refs in Socal, as someone stated, tournament officials should be able to get appropriate refs, unless of course politics are part of it.


Politics are part of everything in this world, and made its way into sports from the beginning of said sports inception.

I'd think what you are saying is fine, just there would be some thoughts on what is fit and experienced in some assignors eyes haha. If tournaments want referees by grade and fitness level then they better be ready to reserve certain individual months ahead, on top of that I can say only about maybe 35% or so are actually fit, not gonna estimate anything about experience. That 6,500 number in socal was a number I got from calsouth SRA George, I think I read 8000 on their site..anyway those numbers are not always accurate and we dont know if all certified referees do sanctioned games, you can guess that half of the numbers above is what the actual number is on consistent active referees.

The only solution, logical and in the short term is limiting the needed amount of referees for the u12 and under age categories...maximum 2 man system and implementing 1 man system at 7 v 7 games and certain 9 v 9 games. Especially for tournament games! That way youll have your most competent and fit referees at the most competitive levels of play.

Of course nothing will come from us sitting on our butts and typing on a forum. Along with the fact that we cant put individuals out of work that are willing to actually put in work.


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## Lambchop (Aug 17, 2017)

Art said:


> Politics are part of everything in this world, and made its way into sports from the beginning of said sports inception.
> 
> I'd think what you are saying is fine, just there would be some thoughts on what is fit and experienced in some assignors eyes haha. If tournaments want referees by grade and fitness level then they better be ready to reserve certain individual months ahead, on top of that I can say only about maybe 35% or so are actually fit, not gonna estimate anything about experience. That 6,500 number in socal was a number I got from calsouth SRA George, I think I read 8000 on their site..anyway those numbers are not always accurate and we dont know if all certified referees do sanctioned games, you can guess that half of the numbers above is what the actual number is on consistent active referees.
> 
> ...


  Of course politics, rewards plays into it.  By being fit I meant being able to move with the flow of the game.  Hopefully more than 35% can move with the flow of the game.  If a tournament needs to reserve refs ahead of time than so be it.  Teams pay a lot of money to be in the tournaments and the tournaments generate a lot of cash for who ever is putting it on. I am not questioning the calls of any game but at least give us refs who can move with the game. If they need to pay more than they should.


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## Art (Aug 17, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> Of course politics, rewards plays into it.  By being fit I meant being able to move with the flow of the game.  Hopefully more than 35% can move with the flow of the game.  If a tournament needs to reserve refs ahead of time than so be it.  Teams pay a lot of money to be in the tournaments and the tournaments generate a lot of cash for who ever is putting it on. I am not questioning the calls of any game but at least give us refs who can move with the game. If they need to pay more than they should.


Some tournaments and areas are already paying well according to the fees I've seen in the SDSRA link and its just the tourneys located centrally i.e corona silverlakes, oc area, lancaster and all that arent paying well, along with the valley areas. Refs have to deal with middlemen i.e associations and tournaments in terms of pay so they dont get much of a say in how much would be right. Hopefully sooner or later we'll have a solution in place.

As for my 35% stat, I just figure that usually the crews I work with arent the fittest or most conditioned. Regardless of age, there is youth and elders that are out of shape.


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## Sons of Pitches (Aug 17, 2017)

According to Cal South there are 5,853 Registered Referees for 2017.  Level 9 (6.4% of total pool) being the least trained (Small Sided recreational youth games only) to Level 1 (FIFA  Games/International matches etc...).  (there are level 13,15 and 16 refs too, these are emeritus refs....etc   -  266 such designations registered in cal south)

The overwhelming majority 4,519 out of 5,853 (77.2% are level 8 referees) level 8 referees have met the minimum requirements to referee all youth games and assistant referee in comparable games.

According to the Cal South Website Grade 8 and Grade 9 are considered Entry Level Referees.  That means 83.6% of the referees are considered entry level.  

There are only 442 Level 7 referees, 7.5% of the total pool.  Level 7 - "All amateur youth games and adult games below the top division"

Since the overwhelming majority are Level 8 I imagine it is difficult for any club administrator to weed through the good ones and the bad ones, etc... to arrive at a good crew for a tournament.  Surely there are some great Level 8 referees, that are experienced, have played the game etc... but if you are trying to recruit a bunch of refs for a tournament I imagine it could be very difficult.

Not involved enough to know, but would like it if someone could shed light on what Cal South is doing to encourage qualified refs to move through the ranks from Entry Level 8 to Level 7, and how you could possibly have more of these Qualified Level 7 Refs working youth games?  Or are there different designations within Level 8 that identify experienced refs?  

I looked through the most recent board meeting minutes, this does not seem to be an issue Cal South is discussing.  I find it interesting that there is not referee representative on the Cal South Board of Directors?  There is not even a Referee Sub Committee that I could find?  If the Mission Statement is to Advance and Improve Soccer in Southern California, should this not include the referees?


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## timbuck (Aug 17, 2017)

What about limiting the number of tournaments?  When you have 5 tournaments every weekend, all summer long, some are going to wind up with "lesser" referees.


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## The Driver (Aug 17, 2017)

Same unfit refs with pull will get the pick


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## coachrefparent (Aug 17, 2017)

Sons of Pitches said:


> According to Cal South there are 5,853 Registered Referees for 2017.  Level 9 (6.4% of total pool) being the least trained (Small Sided recreational youth games only) to Level 1 (FIFA  Games/International matches etc...).  (there are level 13,15 and 16 refs too, these are emeritus refs....etc   -  266 such designations registered in cal south)
> 
> The overwhelming majority 4,519 out of 5,853 (77.2% are level 8 referees) level 8 referees have met the minimum requirements to referee all youth games and assistant referee in comparable games.
> 
> ...


Most of the refs doing youth competitive club games are Grade 8, even the really good ones.


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## Frank (Aug 17, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> Most of the refs doing youth competitive club games are Grade 8, even the really good ones.


True, and considering most tournament have one ref association involved the sample size of available refs is much smaller than the 1000's number thrown around here.  I would guess most associations are 350-500 refs of which a % of that would be considered experienced on this site.


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## Art (Aug 18, 2017)

Frank said:


> True, and considering most tournament have one ref association involved the sample size of available refs is much smaller than the 1000's number thrown around here.  I would guess most associations are 350-500 refs of which a % of that would be considered experienced on this site.


You will be surprised that its actually far less than that at associations I've been to. One association im apart of has 100 something in its Arbiter list, doesnt mean 100 are ready to work, out of the 100 I can say 30-40 are consistent and always ready for games. On top of that the majpr associations that have tons of fields are sampling them to other associations to get games covered. Why? Because they dont have the manpower and on top of that they cant cover that farther region, due to gas/mileage and all.

This discussion deserves a thread altogether haha.


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## Art (Aug 18, 2017)

Sons of Pitches said:


> According to Cal South there are 5,853 Registered Referees for 2017.  Level 9 (6.4% of total pool) being the least trained (Small Sided recreational youth games only) to Level 1 (FIFA  Games/International matches etc...).  (there are level 13,15 and 16 refs too, these are emeritus refs....etc   -  266 such designations registered in cal south)
> 
> The overwhelming majority 4,519 out of 5,853 (77.2% are level 8 referees) level 8 referees have met the minimum requirements to referee all youth games and assistant referee in comparable games.
> 
> ...


Great post, great username too! You touched on a lot of good points. I'll answer your questions the best I can and provide some commentary also. First off Calsouth does nothing in trying to get us to advance further, if anything theyve made it a bit longer and dreadful to advance. I went to an RPD tonight, first one ever, easy stuff in terms of physical activity and a simple class session that involves multiple choice questions. It wasnt very creative or really advanced. These were stuff we cover at association meetings.

The issue though is why do we have to wait a year and do 5 sessions once a month to upgrade?? Like if what I saw in one session was nothing, then its not gonna be more difficult next time, theres no progression like they preach in coaching.

As for the grade levels, it wont matter for youth levels, there are some great level 8 refs, there are awful grade 6,7,8 refs. Its all about assignors bring out there and lookin at whose actually doing well and consistently.

Its funny how they mentioned "6500 refs strong" tonight at the rpd session. I'm thinking to myself "please shut your trap." Data and stats can be misleading. Assignors and associations dont have that deep of a pool to choose from. They dont address it because some referees are scared of competition. The state instruction department is lacking too.


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