# Why do club presidents/heads/boards/whatever keep problematic coaches?



## jbarr (Dec 5, 2018)

Why do they do it? They know that coaches are problematic and ignore all the signs and complains and keep the coach in the team despite that kid after kid decides to leave or not even sign up with the club because of the coach's negative traits.

Case in point, FC Valencia B07 Blue. Over the last three years, the coach (Carlos Santiesteban) has caused problems with his decisions and with his bad handling of situations and with his favoritism and yelling without teaching. Kid after kid has left. Parents have complained and Charles Martinez gets all defensive and tells parents to leave if they don't like it. Well, finally, the team exploded and 6 kids left the team in the last two months. Even the two most ferocious moms who protected the coach because their kids were the favorites decided to leave (I guess Carlos started yelling at their kids and couldn't take it while looking how he did the same to other kids over the years).

Charles Martinez is aware and instead of removing the coach from the team, he's keeping him and calling for more tryouts. It's unbelievable.


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## El Clasico (Dec 5, 2018)

jbarr said:


> Why do they do it? They know that coaches are problematic and ignore all the signs and complains and keep the coach in the team despite that kid after kid decides to leave or not even sign up with the club because of the coach's negative traits.
> 
> Case in point, FC Valencia B07 Blue. Over the last three years, the coach (Carlos Santiesteban) has caused problems with his decisions and with his bad handling of situations and with his favoritism and yelling without teaching. Kid after kid has left. Parents have complained and Charles Martinez gets all defensive and tells parents to leave if they don't like it. Well, finally, the team exploded and 6 kids left the team in the last two months. Even the two most ferocious moms who protected the coach because their kids were the favorites decided to leave (I guess Carlos started yelling at their kids and couldn't take it while looking how he did the same to other kids over the years).
> 
> Charles Martinez is aware and instead of removing the coach from the team, he's keeping him and calling for more tryouts. It's unbelievable.


SOP, my friend!!
(standard operation procedure)


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## coachsamy (Dec 5, 2018)

toucan said:


> You just gotta love guys like jbarr, who join the board so they can name-shame a coach while hiding behind a pseudonym themselves.  He could have started a conversation without identifying the coach, but no, that is not "jbarr's" style.  He wants to do it from the shadows and he wants to name names.  He is a coward and deserves no respect on this board or any other.  I hope somebody who knows him posts his true name on the board.
> 
> My best guess is that jbarr is an uninformed loudmouth parent who thinks he knows everything.  I would bet money that jbarr is a cancer on the sidelines, and has alienated many parents himself with all of his griping and second-guessing.  I doubt he has ever had a constructive discussion with the coach he now abuses.
> 
> ...


 Sounds like the Tudela and FCGS guy...


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## Grace T. (Dec 5, 2018)

toucan said:


> Now, as to the coach in question, I don't know him, have never met him, don't coach against him, and never heard of him until reading brave jbarr's post.  .


I've had a run in with the guy as a ref.  I'll just say jbarr's post doesn't really shock me and leave it at that.


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## 1dad2boys (Dec 5, 2018)

Why should this kind of information be private?  We are all trying to do the best for our kids. Avoiding bad coaches, clubs and other situations can only be done when the information is laid bare. Take the power from the clubs and coaches and talk about it.


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## El Clasico (Dec 5, 2018)

1dad2boys said:


> Why should this kind of information be private?  We are all trying to do the best for our kids. Avoiding bad coaches, clubs and other situations can only be done when the information is laid bare. Take the power from the clubs and coaches and talk about it.


Well, if you notice, it is only other coaches that are complaining about the coach being called out.  Reminds me of the Catholic Church protecting the bad priests.  I have found that most soccer coaches are completely lacking in self awareness.  They don't realize that most parents hate their guts, even the ones who come up and chat them up and shake their hands. Been a part of many, many teams over the years and I noticed that most coaches don't have a clue as how disliked they really are.  Sh*tty coaches are disliked and damn good coaches are dislike. Just for different reasons and by different people. Its the nature of the business.

Personally, I love to see people come on the boards and make it interesting!!


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## OCsoccerdad7777 (Dec 5, 2018)

1dad2boys said:


> Why should this kind of information be private?  We are all trying to do the best for our kids. Avoiding bad coaches, clubs and other situations can only be done when the information is laid bare. Take the power from the clubs and coaches and talk about it.


Exactly. Good coaches can overcome a post like this.  Treat people right and don't worry about the rest. It will fix itself if the parent is the problem.  Soccer world is small.


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## outside! (Dec 6, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> Well, if you notice, it is only other coaches that are complaining about the coach being called out.  Reminds me of the Catholic Church protecting the bad priests.  I have found that most soccer coaches are completely lacking in self awareness.  They don't realize that most parents hate their guts, even the ones who come up and chat them up and shake their hands. Been a part of many, many teams over the years and I noticed that most coaches don't have a clue as how disliked they really are.  Sh*tty coaches are disliked and damn good coaches are dislike. Just for different reasons and by different people. Its the nature of the business.
> 
> Personally, I love to see people come on the boards and make it interesting!!


If you hate your kid's coach, maybe you should find a different team.


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## mlx (Dec 6, 2018)

toucan said:


> Please, somebody identify who jbarr really is.  Then we can blackball his kid - not because the kid is bad, but because the kid's father is a cancer.


Jesu! No, his father is not a cancer. People like you are a cancer. You want to destroy his reputation and punish his kid only because he dared complaining about a situation lived in different clubs.

The fact that you went out of your way to research the team and coach and whatnot tells me either you are that coach or his mommy or some coach with the same stupid characteristics than him.

Also, practice what you preach, it is super easy to threaten someone and organize a  linching mob behind a nick name.

What's your real name, Toucan? So that we all avoid whatever team you coach?


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## El Clasico (Dec 6, 2018)

outside! said:


> If you hate your kid's coach, maybe you should find a different team.


You may have misunderstood my post.


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## outside! (Dec 6, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> You may have misunderstood my post.


That was addressed to anyone that hates their kid's coach. I have never been in that position, but if I was, it wouldn't last long.


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## outside! (Dec 6, 2018)

toucan said:


> Why do you want to protect jbarr?  Why is it that you are so gung ho on name-shaming coaches, but believe it is wrong to name the accuser?  Why do you object to even-handed disclosure?  What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.


I have named coaches in the past and remained anonymous. The welfare of children takes precedence over the welfare of coaches. It is a small soccer world on the coaching side of things. If jbarr is blowing smoke, then the coach in question has nothing to worry about.


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## timbuck (Dec 6, 2018)

As long as the coach can fill a team, the club will keep that coach around.  Vote with your wallet and tell your friends why you are leaving.
Or as the great wordsmith Vince Neil has said "Don't go away mad.  Just go away"


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## toucan (Dec 6, 2018)

outside! said:


> I have named coaches in the past and remained anonymous. The welfare of children takes precedence over the welfare of coaches. It is a small soccer world on the coaching side of things. If jbarr is blowing smoke, then the coach in question has nothing to worry about.


I call BS on your reply.  There is no indication that jbarr is thinking of the "welfare" of any children.  The fact that he joined the board to make a single accusatory post, naming the coach, proves the opposite; namely, that he is just hell-bent on destroying a coach's reputation.  If he were really thinking about the "welfare" of his kid, he would just move him to another team and the matter would be closed.  And as far as whether or not the coach has anything to worry about if jbarr is "just blowing smoke," well, why should a coach have to put up with that kind of libel?  Why should a coach be forced to endure jbarr's "smoke?"  

And again, why are you protecting jbarr?  If he is going to name names, then why should his anonymity be protected?  What do you have against even-handed disclosure?


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## outside! (Dec 6, 2018)

toucan said:


> If he is going to name names, then why should his anonymity be protected?  What do you have against even-handed disclosure?


It is not about protecting his anonymity, but the anonymity of his player. Remember, it is supposed to be all about the kids.


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 6, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> Sounds like the Tudela and FCGS guy...


Agreed. The post is certainly going in the same direction. Like the Tudela thread the original poster has seemingly disappeared from further posts.


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## coachsamy (Dec 6, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Agreed. The post is certainly going in the same direction. Like the Tudela thread the original poster has seemingly disappeared from further posts.


I have no problem with venting out, but first build a rep, don't just come first post throwing someone under the bus and walk away... Damn Trolls....


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## OCsoccerdad7777 (Dec 6, 2018)

toucan said:


> If you are going to name-shame a coach, as jbarr did, then he should have the courage to use his own name.  That is what makes him a coward; not the fact that he wants to complain about a coach, but that he does it from the shadows, with no factual backup.  Again, I hope somebody posts jbarr's name on this board.





toucan said:


> How do you "overcome" an anonymous poster who gives no factual basis for his opinions and who takes potshots from behind a wall?  If this were a trial, then at least the coach would be able confront the witnesses against him.  I don't think anybody objects to fair argumentation as to the merits of a coach.  But I object to abusive people who start an argument from behind cover and then run away without ever showing themselves.  jbarr is not somebody who is "trying to do the best for his kids."  He is a coward who just wants to cause problems.
> 
> Please, somebody identify who jbarr really is.  Then we can blackball his kid - not because the kid is bad, but because the kid's father is a cancer.


Think of it kinda like a whistleblower.  Are they always correct? No but can there be truth behind it? Yes.  I wouldn't mind the accuser if completely wrong getting crushed but never their kid. That's why I like the anonymity. Plus if it helps keep coaches in check, all for it. The community always will know the problem parents so it will come around if they are crazy.

If our coach were to very blasted on here by some angry parent,  people know his reputation around soccer so it wouldn't affect him much if at all. In fact I'm sure people will probably end up defending him since he's such a good character and coach.
Grace already even said she wasn't surprised so there COULD be some truth.
I always do my research and check the team/coach out before hand so you can usually tell if it is true or not.

On the flip side, I know coaches who are douche bags and not good at developing yet parents stay on the team so not everyone cares about the truth.


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## El Clasico (Dec 6, 2018)

toucan said:


> I don't want to "destroy his reputation only because he dared complaining."  And there is no "lynch mob."  But if jbarr is going to lob anonymous bombs while naming a coach, then he should have the courage to identify himself.  As far as "punishing his kid," by not taking him on a team, I look at it differently.  I would say it is protecting existing players from having a cancerous presence, like jbarr's, on the sideline.
> 
> Why do you want to protect jbarr?  Why is it that you are so gung ho on name-shaming coaches, but believe it is wrong to name the accuser?  Why do you object to even-handed disclosure?  What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.


Even handed disclosure???  I may be mistaken Bob, but weren't you doing the same thing when people said you got the boot from Hollywood FC and after getting the gig at Boca, you came on disparaging the whole HFC club?  Goose? Gander? So it's ok for a coach to talk smack about another coach or club but the paying customer should just sit down and shut up?

Not picking a fight or seeking an argument, just seeking clarification...


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## socalkdg (Dec 6, 2018)




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## outside! (Dec 6, 2018)

toucan said:


> When you can explain why a parent is allowed to excoriate a coach by name, but remain anonymous  himself, then I will take your post seriously.  If the parent wants to protect his or her own anonymity, then the parent should not name-shame the coach.


Just curious, do you have kids that play?


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## outside! (Dec 6, 2018)

toucan said:


> I do not.  My children are grown up.  If you really want to know who I am and what I do, you can PM me.  Although, if would be pretty hard to not know who I am after the last few posts.


Thanks. I appreciate your honesty. jbarr definitely could have worded things better, and it would have been much better if he had an established reputation here on the forum. I personally would encourage any parent that has problem with a coach to post here anonymously in order to prevent any negative consequences for their player. I would also tell anyone who reads a negative review of a coach to keep it in consideration but do their own research and come to their own conclusion.


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## Not_that_Serious (Dec 6, 2018)

toucan said:


> I do not.  My children are grown up.  If you really want to know who I am and what I do, you can PM me.  Although, if would be pretty hard to not know who I am after the last few posts.


yeah you can pretty much google names thrown up here, look at some negative posts online, plug in some various search terms after gathering more info and you will find all the info you might want...if you are bored or something. =)


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## ultimate20 (Dec 6, 2018)

Jbarr opened a can of worms, and yes, the ability to attack a coach anonymously will cause some to question the motives.  However, as other posters have mentioned, a coach with a solid reputation, history, integrity, etc will allow time and results and often others to speak and the reality  of things becomes clear.   And as others have mentioned, if there is smoke, and you do some background checking you will find fire.  

And to answer the question about why clubs keep problematic coaches... There are too many to list. But suffice it to say eventually problems need to go away and they usually do, one way or the other.  Good luck finding a fit for your kid, and remember as a parent you have some obligations to keep as well.


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## foreveryoung (Dec 6, 2018)

I don’t take much of what’s posted online as fact but definitely not anything posted anonymously.  Ive known some stories posted on here first hand and the posters seriously exaggerated and sometimes partly fabricated what happened.  I’m honestly shocked how intense and resentful people can be on this forum over youth sports.  Move teams, move clubs, move on.  Life is waaayyyy too short.

I don’t even take coach recommendations from other parents.  For every coach you can find 20 parents who think they are terrible and 20 parents that think they are great.  It’s totally based on personal values and expectations. 

Do what others have suggested and go to practices and games and find out for yourself.


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## Paul Spacey (Dec 6, 2018)

I understand whistleblowing and perhaps the occasional need for an 'anonymous' post but I don't get why people don't just use their actual names anyway. Transparency brings an element of credibility, even if you sometimes talk sh*t!


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## jbarr (Dec 7, 2018)

toucan said:


> You just gotta love guys like jbarr, who join the board so they can name-shame a coach while hiding behind a pseudonym themselves.  He could have started a conversation without identifying the coach, but no, that is not "jbarr's" style.  He wants to do it from the shadows and he wants to name names.  He is a coward and deserves no respect on this board or any other.  I hope somebody who knows him posts his true name on the board.
> 
> My best guess is that jbarr is an uninformed loudmouth parent who thinks he knows everything.  I would bet money that jbarr is a cancer on the sidelines, and has alienated many parents himself with all of his griping and second-guessing.  I doubt he has ever had a constructive discussion with the coach he now abuses.
> 
> ...


Wow, Robert Woodbury! are you the defender of awful coaches?


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## espola (Dec 7, 2018)

toucan said:


> Well, it wasn't any secret who I am.  I have identified myself on the board before.  No, I'm not a defender of awful coaches.  I'm a defender of the right to know who accuses a person.  You hide behind your pseudonym and lob bombs.  If you want to play this game, I suppose I can, too.  How long do you think it will take me to find out who you are?  A couple of calls to your FC Valencia coach and a couple of others is all it will take.  Then we can converse on equal terms.


You can request the name from the site owner, and if he won't give it up, get a warrant.


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## Not_that_Serious (Dec 7, 2018)

jbarr said:


> Wow, Robert Woodbury! are you the defender of awful coaches?


that wasnt him on yelp. it was me. master plan to take down youth soccer =)

ps. that wasnt a hard find. dont think he was hiding, to be fair


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## coachrefparent (Dec 7, 2018)

toucan said:


> Well, it wasn't any secret who I am.  I have identified myself on the board before.  No, I'm not a defender of awful coaches.  I'm a defender of the right to know who accuses a person.  You hide behind your pseudonym and lob bombs.  If you want to play this game, I suppose I can, too.  How long do you think it will take me to find out who you are?  A couple of calls to your FC Valencia coach and a couple of others is all it will take.  Then we can converse on equal terms.


_Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. . . . It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation . . . at the hand of an intolerant society. -SCOTUS 1995_


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## espola (Dec 7, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> _Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. . . . It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation . . . at the hand of an intolerant society. -SCOTUS 1995_


People who have been slandered anonymously online have legal options.


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## End of the Line (Dec 7, 2018)

mlx said:


> Jesu! No, his father is not a cancer. People like you are a cancer. You want to destroy his reputation and punish his kid only because he dared complaining about a situation lived in different clubs.
> 
> The fact that you went out of your way to research the team and coach and whatnot tells me either you are that coach or his mommy or some coach with the same stupid characteristics than him.
> 
> ...


Spending some time researching the team and coach seems prudent, and certainly wiser than swallowing whole whatever some anonymous poster says online.  Russian troll farms must really love you.  Not only do you believe whatever people tell you, but you spread it further and even attack anyone who's wise enough to question the motivations of someone who anonymously attacks his kid's U12 soccer coach over such egregious behavior as "favoritism" and "bad handling of situations".



outside! said:


> It is not about protecting his anonymity, but the anonymity of his player. Remember, it is supposed to be all about the kids.


If it's about the kids, everyone should know who is complaining about the coach so they can protect their own kids from this dad trying to blow their team up next.


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## Soccermom4 (Dec 7, 2018)

Sometimes it is the club president that is problematic and creates an environment in which coaches, parents and players flow in an out at high rates.

In both cases I would guess it is about money and ego, instead of providing players with the best service and development.


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## Soccermom4 (Dec 7, 2018)

jbarr said:


> Why do they do it? They know that coaches are problematic and ignore all the signs and complains and keep the coach in the team despite that kid after kid decides to leave or not even sign up with the club because of the coach's negative traits.
> 
> Case in point, FC Valencia B07 Blue. Over the last three years, the coach (Carlos Santiesteban) has caused problems with his decisions and with his bad handling of situations and with his favoritism and yelling without teaching. Kid after kid has left. Parents have complained and Charles Martinez gets all defensive and tells parents to leave if they don't like it. Well, finally, the team exploded and 6 kids left the team in the last two months. Even the two most ferocious moms who protected the coach because their kids were the favorites decided to leave (I guess Carlos started yelling at their kids and couldn't take it while looking how he did the same to other kids over the years).
> 
> Charles Martinez is aware and instead of removing the coach from the team, he's keeping him and calling for more tryouts. It's unbelievable.


Oh, wow didn't realize this was your first post.  Likely not the best way to start posting here.  Looks like you have an axe to grind.  Maybe it would be better to discuss this with the coach and club president.


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## Keepermom2 (Dec 9, 2018)

My 3 years in this counter intuitive club soccer BUSINESS has shown me that you throw away your idea of what it should look like and operate under the way it is or you will drive yourself crazy which impacts your kid who just wants to play the game.   Navigate it to best serve your kid.

I worked at Nordstrom a whole lot of years ago and every time I had to walk the stairs to clock in there was a sign that read:

Rule #1 The customer is always right
Rule #2 When the customer is wrong, refer to rule #1

I have gleaned in this soccer world that they operate under:

Rule #1  The coach is always right
Rule #2  When the coach is wrong, refer to rule #1

So if you don't like the coach or think they are wrong and you want to gain justice, DON'T.  I get why you want to right the wrong that you believe has been done but the whole culture has to change first.  I have learned to look at what my child gets from a club, what I have to put out in time and money and can I get the same or better for less output and we keep learning as we go frustrating as it may be.  Your post won't change it but has the potential of causing you and most importantly your child a whole lot of pain.  I recommend paying the $15 for your account and delete the message. 

Best to you and your child!


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## Desert619 (Dec 9, 2018)

We just left a team and club due to the coach being toxic. He created a very toxic environment. His director and board  are aware of the situation. They think the coach is a unhappy person and can’t explain his anger and mood swings. Their reasoning for keeping him. They have no other coach ready and willing to commit to the team. Their words not mine!

So this coach could get away with being an Ass.  What did I do? We left! I can’t respect a club that allows a coach to behave this way. It’s embarrassing and I’m glad I’m not part of that toxic environment anymore.


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## texanincali (Dec 9, 2018)

The absolute state of this thread


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## str8baller (Dec 12, 2018)

If someone did their homework on FCV they would learn: Been around for 5-6 years.  Club was ousted from SCDSL last year.  It's really 2+ clubs- FC Valencia teams, and SWAP teams, and a mish mash of others.  When moving to CSL they got many "gift" promotions, and at the end of the  year they will get reality relegations... although can you get relegated from Bronze?  Coach Carlos, and most of their FCV coaches have a difficult time getting teams moved up the ladder, but that can be said about many other clubs.  The guy may not be great, but  this way of anonymous criticism isn't the way to go.


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## Poconos (Dec 12, 2018)

toucan said:


> When you can explain why a parent is allowed to excoriate a coach by name, but remain anonymous  himself, then I will take your post seriously.


Because the administrators of this forum _allow _it.  They apparently don't demand that the users never mention other peoples' names.  So I guess you should address your gripes to them.


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## Nagini (Dec 13, 2018)

Desert619 said:


> We just left a team and club due to the coach being toxic. He created a very toxic environment. His director and board  are aware of the situation. They think the coach is a unhappy person and can’t explain his anger and mood swings. Their reasoning for keeping him. They have no other coach ready and willing to commit to the team. Their words not mine!
> 
> So this coach could get away with being an Ass.  What did I do? We left! I can’t respect a club that allows a coach to behave this way. It’s embarrassing and I’m glad I’m not part of that toxic environment anymore.


This sounds like the president at a small south bay club.  But he is the president and coach.  I don't think he has a board. You must be talking about a different club.

If the coach you talk about is as bad as you say, it will catch up to him. The club I mentioned I hear did not get to play presidio and some teams left to other clubs.


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## Not_that_Serious (Dec 13, 2018)

Nagini said:


> This sounds like the president at a small south bay club.  But he is the president and coach.  I don't think he has a board. You must be talking about a different club.
> 
> If the coach you talk about is as bad as you say, it will catch up to him. The club I mentioned I hear did not get to play presidio and some teams left to other clubs.


stuff doesnt catch up too much. how many shady coaches do we see out there? i could spit out two dozen off the top of my head in South OC that been around for over 10 years and bounce around leaving messes. the used car salesman coach and/or director will always find a home - as long as there are clubs who are constructed solely to make money. Sad part is these are the types that end up as DOCs at clubs.


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## coachsamy (Dec 13, 2018)

Nagini said:


> This sounds like the president at a small south bay club.  But he is the president and coach.  I don't think he has a board. You must be talking about a different club.
> 
> If the coach you talk about is as bad as you say, it will catch up to him. The club I mentioned I hear did not get to play presidio and some teams left to other clubs.


Which club??


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## Nagini (Dec 13, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> Which club??


We were not at that club and I don't remember the name.  I remember it was a European team name.  But my husband speaks with parents from a team that left. The word is that the President was a real jerk and cheated by playing kids down.  I guess he got caught.  It left teams scrambling to find new clubs in the middle of summer.  

From the sounds of it, he never bothered to notify the teams and even charged them. I don't remember how they found out, but according to the parents he denied it and told them teams were still being added to the schedule. I think someone finally wised up and called presidio directly to catch him in the lie.

I'll ask my husband, but possibly a coach on the board knows.  I know it was quite the scandal her in Chula Vista.


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## coachsamy (Dec 13, 2018)

Nagini said:


> We were not at that club and I don't remember the name.  I remember it was a European team name.  But my husband speaks with parents from a team that left. The word is that the President was a real jerk and cheated by playing kids down.  I guess he got caught.  It left teams scrambling to find new clubs in the middle of summer.
> 
> From the sounds of it, he never bothered to notify the teams and even charged them. I don't remember how they found out, but according to the parents he denied it and told them teams were still being added to the schedule. I think someone finally wised up and called presidio directly to catch him in the lie.
> 
> I'll ask my husband, but possibly a coach on the board knows.  I know it was quite the scandal her in Chula Vista.


Haven't heard of this scandal in Chula. I'm surprise because most clubs that are not allowed in Presidio as a club, still play there under Atlante.


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## Nagini (Dec 13, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> Haven't heard of this scandal in Chula. I'm surprise because most clubs that are not allowed in Presidio as a club, still play there under Atlante.


I think the club was in Pray or San Ysidro.


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## Soccermom4 (Dec 15, 2018)

Nagini said:


> We were not at that club and I don't remember the name.  I remember it was a European team name.  But my husband speaks with parents from a team that left. The word is that the President was a real jerk and cheated by playing kids down.  I guess he got caught.  It left teams scrambling to find new clubs in the middle of summer.
> 
> From the sounds of it, he never bothered to notify the teams and even charged them. I don't remember how they found out, but according to the parents he denied it and told them teams were still being added to the schedule. I think someone finally wised up and called presidio directly to catch him in the lie.
> 
> I'll ask my husband, but possibly a coach on the board knows.  I know it was quite the scandal her in Chula Vista.


I think I know which club you are referring to and can't imagine why teams continue to attend that club's leagues and todays tournament.  My niece's teammate was almost disqualified from playing because she was listed on two rosters.  Her former club kept her name on the roster and even altered the birth certificate to try to cover it up.  Everyone knows about it.    They just speak in hushed tones.  His brother even came to our club with a full team.  If your own brother leaves, things have gotten bad.


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## espola (Dec 15, 2018)

Soccermom4 said:


> I think I know which club you are referring to and can't imagine why teams continue to attend that club's leagues and todays tournament.  My niece's teammate was almost disqualified from playing because she was listed on two rosters.  Her former club kept her name on the roster and even altered the birth certificate to try to cover it up.  Everyone knows about it.    They just speak in hushed tones.  His brother even came to our club with a full team.  If your own brother leaves, things have gotten bad.


Even some of the best-known clubs have screwed up roster paperwork and then tried to blame the kid or his parents for it.


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## Soccermom4 (Dec 15, 2018)

espola said:


> Even some of the best-known clubs have screwed up roster paperwork and then tried to blame the kid or his parents for it.


I don't believe it is the case.  The complaint by this girl's parents led to the discovery of many former players still on the rosters and when the club records were reviewed they saw their daughter's birth certificate was a Mexican Birth certificate.  All the information was the same but it was a copy of a Mexican certificate. we asked the mom how no body noticed it until October. She explained that a new player number was assigned to her daughter.  That sounds deliberate to me.  from the few times I sat with the moms at games and heard them talk about it I could tell no one was surprised by the discovery.  There were at least 2 or 3 moms that brought their kid from that club and all had stories of catching the president in lies. even the coaches.


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## espola (Dec 15, 2018)

Soccermom4 said:


> I don't believe it is the case.  The complaint by this girl's parents led to the discovery of many former players still on the rosters and when the club records were reviewed they saw their daughter's birth certificate was a Mexican Birth certificate.  All the information was the same but it was a copy of a Mexican certificate. we asked the mom how no body noticed it until October. She explained that a new player number was assigned to her daughter.  That sounds deliberate to me.  from the few times I sat with the moms at games and heard them talk about it I could tell no one was surprised by the discovery.  There were at least 2 or 3 moms that brought their kid from that club and all had stories of catching the president in lies. even the coaches.


We ran into a situation where a player signed up for a club and they put him on two rosters (he was eligible for both, and the teams were registered through different sanctioning organizations, so no problem so far) and didn't tell the player or his parents.  Both teams had the same coach, so the coach and club admin certainly knew what had happened.  He only played and practiced with one team and never saw the other team except when the two teams scrimmaged.  When they were called on it, they blamed the family.


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## Soccermom4 (Dec 15, 2018)

espola said:


> We ran into a situation where a player signed up for a club and they put him on two rosters (he was eligible for both, and the teams were registered through different sanctioning organizations, so no problem so far) and didn't tell the player or his parents.  Both teams had the same coach, so the coach and club admin certainly knew what had happened.  He only played and practiced with one team and never saw the other team except when the two teams scrimmaged.  When they were called on it, they blamed the family.


I am not saying these mistakes don't happen.  I bet it happens more than we know. I heard enough to feel confident that it wasn't the case in this situation.  I can't go in too much detail without breaking some confidences, but I can share what was said in the sidelines with lots of parents listening in.  Both teams were cal south and Presidio teams and it was Presidio that caught the names.  There were about 4 girls still on the roster that stopped playing before the 2017 season. Another mom came forward to say she left the club after she found out her son was not even registered under his real name.  The club was not allowed to play in the 2018 season and from what I hear the President had his license suspended. A quick check on the Calsouth page shows that the club is no longer listed.  I would guess that Presidio shared what they found for that to happen. I know that one team coached by the brother came to our club.  Those parents had nothing good to say about the president and even backed up the claims that he cheated. I know at least one other team left and went to another club in Chula Vista. Both teams are boys.


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## Nagini (Dec 15, 2018)

Soccermom4 said:


> I think I know which club you are referring to and can't imagine why teams continue to attend that club's leagues and todays tournament.  My niece's teammate was almost disqualified from playing because she was listed on two rosters.  Her former club kept her name on the roster and even altered the birth certificate to try to cover it up.  Everyone knows about it.    They just speak in hushed tones.  His brother even came to our club with a full team.  If your own brother leaves, things have gotten bad.


I don't know about all of that.  Everything I heard second hand.  Most of it was about the president's bad character, mainly fighting with parents, screaming at players, inappropriate behavior with the mothers and him wanting to win so bad that he would play players down in friendly games.  we did hear about falsifying ID cards but I though the club only had boys teams all under 15.


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## Soccermom4 (Dec 17, 2018)

Nagini said:


> I don't know about all of that.  Everything I heard second hand.  Most of it was about the president's bad character, mainly fighting with parents, screaming at players, inappropriate behavior with the mothers and him wanting to win so bad that he would play players down in friendly games.  we did hear about falsifying ID cards but I though the club only had boys teams all under 15.


LOL!! (Behavior with the mothers) Now I am certain it is the same club. M? 
I think they had just one girl team.  The club was only a few years old. From what I heard the teams used to play here under Aztecs then they went independent. The club was growing and had a spring and summer league that was getting popular, until the president's behavior got reckless. The parents say he was aggressive and almost got in fist fights with people at games and practices. Aside from the cheating "rumors"  the guy has a bad rep in general.  I have never met a parent that left his club on good terms or has anything nice to say. More so than other clubs. The guy seems like a train wreck. There is something new about him going around every month but he continues to try to keep his club going.  Too much money to give up I would guess.


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## Nagini (Dec 17, 2018)

Soccermom4 said:


> LOL!! (Behavior with the mothers) Now I am certain it is the same club. M?QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Yes.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Dec 17, 2018)

What is this guy's full name and what is the club?


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## jose (Dec 17, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> _Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. . . . It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation . . . at the hand of an intolerant society. -SCOTUS 1995_


Boy does that apply in todays society.....oops sorry back to soccer


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## jose (Dec 17, 2018)

I guarantee he doesn't talk to his superiors (at a job he needs) like that.  
im getting in here late but my take is to ask..... Why do people treat people badly? The answer is because they can.   Everyone has this story somewhere in the club world and I would have loved to have lashed the guy that coached my DD but it was just better to say thank you and go on my way.  He never understood why people left and he never will.  My sister is a volleyball coach and they have a saying "that anything you say can only hurt your kid"  kinda true


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## Nagini (Dec 17, 2018)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> What is this guy's full name and what is the club?


Is that allowed?


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## Soccermom4 (Dec 18, 2018)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> What is this guy's full name and what is the club?





Nagini said:


> Is that allowed?


Since everything said here can be verified by anyone I don't see why not.  I wouldn't want to end up at a club known for these things and get burned in some way just because no on told me.  The club I know of is M City Academy.  I don't know the President's name so I won't put any names out there.


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## timbuck (Dec 18, 2018)

jbarr said:


> Why do they do it? They know that coaches are problematic and ignore all the signs and complains and keep the coach in the team despite that kid after kid decides to leave or not even sign up with the club because of the coach's negative traits.
> 
> Case in point, FC Valencia B07 Blue. Over the last three years, the coach (Carlos Santiesteban) has caused problems with his decisions and with his bad handling of situations and with his favoritism and yelling without teaching. Kid after kid has left. Parents have complained and Charles Martinez gets all defensive and tells parents to leave if they don't like it. Well, finally, the team exploded and 6 kids left the team in the last two months. Even the two most ferocious moms who protected the coach because their kids were the favorites decided to leave (I guess Carlos started yelling at their kids and couldn't take it while looking how he did the same to other kids over the years).
> 
> Charles Martinez is aware and instead of removing the coach from the team, he's keeping him and calling for more tryouts. It's unbelievable.


To answer the original question -  Because the network of soccer coaches runs very deep.  I'd love to see a "Family Tree" of who has worked for who.  Or who has played for who at some point.  Seems that when a coach leaves a club, there is a ton of turmoil.  Lawsuits, payouts, etc.  But if that coach can come back and bring a few teams with him, all of the bad blood is forgotten.
Why aren't there more female coaches that last more than a season or 2?  Yet, you have men who have been coaching for 20+ years.


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## Zdrone (Dec 18, 2018)

timbuck said:


> To answer the original question -  Because the network of soccer coaches runs very deep.  I'd love to see a "Family Tree" of who has worked for who.  Or who has played for who at some point.


Take too much time to untangle that mess...


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 18, 2018)

Zdrone said:


> Take too much time to untangle that mess...


I just got motion sickness.


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## mlx (Dec 19, 2018)

toucan said:


> Please, somebody identify who jbarr really is.  Then we can blackball his kid - not because the kid is bad, but because the kid's father is a cancer.


Hi, "toucan". Any updates organizing your lynch mob for your witch-hunt? Were you able to "blackball his kid" for life with all the soccer club community?


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## Soccermom4 (Dec 19, 2018)

mlx said:


> Hi, "toucan". Any updates organizing your lynch mob for your witch-hunt? Were you able to "blackball his kid" for life with all the soccer club community?


I know this is a jab or joke at Toucan's expense, but I hope no one would ever consider this ok.


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## mlx (Dec 20, 2018)

Soccermom4 said:


> I know this is a jab or joke at Toucan's expense, but I hope no one would ever consider this ok.


Of course it is a joke... It is despicable that Toucan really wants to do that. Hopefully, his threats make people realize how he is and avoid him as a coach for their kids.


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## Nagini (Dec 21, 2018)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> What is this guy's full name and what is the club?


Someone mentioned the club. It is Manchester or M City Academy I think is what they go by now. The coach is the president Coach Pedro Espinoza.  I give his full name so people don't confuse him with his brother who is also a Coach at a different club.


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## timbuck (Dec 21, 2018)

Anyone else find it weird when a club in the US calls itself the name of another City?
Manchester City; Chelsea; Barca; etc?
Do any basketball teams in Europe call themselves the Los Angeles Lakers or Boston Celtics?


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## Nagini (Dec 21, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Anyone else find it weird when a club in the US calls itself the name of another City?
> Manchester City; Chelsea; Barca; etc?
> Do any basketball teams in Europe call themselves the Los Angeles Lakers or Boston Celtics?


Maybe they do it for the name recognition and hoping that people will go because of that.  Or maybe that is the team the founder of the club likes.

It is weird.  I didn't think of it that way before. I hear the teams were good at that club before. 1st and 2nd place for their teams on presidio.


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## coachsamy (Dec 21, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Anyone else find it weird when a club in the US calls itself the name of another City?
> Manchester City; Chelsea; Barca; etc?
> Do any basketball teams in Europe call themselves the Los Angeles Lakers or Boston Celtics?


Cheap Marketing!


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## jpeter (Dec 21, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Anyone else find it weird when a club in the US calls itself the name of another City?
> Manchester City; Chelsea; Barca; etc?
> Do any basketball teams in Europe call themselves the Los Angeles Lakers or Boston Celtics?


No but they name & brand some of there teams after football clubs


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## timbuck (Dec 21, 2018)

Imagine if their best athletes played soccer?


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 21, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Imagine if their best athletes played soccer?


To tall.


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## timbuck (Dec 21, 2018)

Wonder what it’s like to be a decent basketball player but a crappy soccer player in Barcelona?
Do those kids get teased for playing a “sissy” sport?


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 21, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Wonder what it’s like to be a decent basketball player but a crappy soccer player in Barcelona?
> Do those kids get teased for playing a “sissy” sport?


Nah, there is a big following and local fan support.


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## focomoso (Dec 21, 2018)

jpeter said:


> No but they name & brand some of there teams after football clubs


That's FC Barcelona Bàsquet. They're actually owned by FC Barcelona. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Barcelona_Bàsquet


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## toucan (Dec 21, 2018)

mlx said:


> Hi, "toucan". Any updates organizing your lynch mob for your witch-hunt? Were you able to "blackball his kid" for life with all the soccer club community?


Nope.  Nor do I plan to.  However, I did receive a phone call from someone from Valencia who identified the poster, and gave me the entire backstory.


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## Messi>CR7 (Jan 2, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Anyone else find it weird when a club in the US calls itself the name of another City?
> Manchester City; Chelsea; Barca; etc?
> Do any basketball teams in Europe call themselves the Los Angeles Lakers or Boston Celtics?


The most ridiculous one is "Real" Salt Lake of MLS.  I don't remember running into any royal family in Utah.


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## Sheriff Joe (Jan 2, 2019)

Messi>CR7 said:


> The most ridiculous one is "Real" Salt Lake of MLS.  I don't remember running into any royal family in Utah.


It's the Smith Family.


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## espola (Jan 2, 2019)

Messi>CR7 said:


> The most ridiculous one is "Real" Salt Lake of MLS.  I don't remember running into any royal family in Utah.


I joke with my Utah-native neighbor about Salt Lake based "Utah Jazz".


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## OrangeCountyDad (Jan 4, 2019)

Messi>CR7 said:


> The most ridiculous one is "Real" Salt Lake of MLS.  I don't remember running into any royal family in Utah.


I dunno, Sporting KC ...


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## OrangeCountyDad (Jan 4, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Anyone else find it weird when a club in the US calls itself the name of another City?
> Manchester City; Chelsea; Barca; etc?


yes, weird.  but cheap kits and sideline apparel.


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## Nagini (Jan 4, 2019)

OrangeCountyDad said:


> yes, weird.  but cheap kits and sideline apparel.


Or knock offs from China.


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