# Return to Play & Practice



## jpeter (Jun 14, 2020)

Return to Play & Practice

This thread & poll are only to discuss Return to Play & practice dates, if you want to share your frustration, joy, or related info please do so but lets keep politics, covid19,etc to a minimum and use other threads to discuss those topics.

Please let people express their opinions or votes without making judgments, moral, legal, or otherwise just stick to the facts basically, or if you have a specific questions or something of value to add or should be covered or voted on comment on those.  If you are happy or not that's fine to share but let keep things civil, any suggestions to help out others would be greatly appreciated.

For Return to Play under day camp guidance see the following from San Diego County
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/6253e3aa-531b-4342-89f7-c24c1589670a/downloads/DAY CAMP SAFETY PROTOCOL.docx?ver=1591488178914

US Youth Soccer Return to Play
https://www.usyouthsoccer.org/video/return-to-play/

For Cal South Return to Play guidelines:
https://calsouth.com/coronavirus/

Usclub (Ecxx, NPL, etc)
https://www.usclubsoccer.org/coronavirus

The poll is for returns starting *week of 6/15* that your club has informed you about. You can come back later and change your vote, will be open for 35 days. 2 choices since Tournament Play is also included in the poll.  If your club starts with Day camp guidance but later doesn't need to use that anymore please update your vote. 

SD= San Diego County,  LA=LA County,  OC=Orange County, OTH=All other counties (SB, Riverside,Ventura, etc) , 
ALL= All Socal Counties if your in any of those but no Return to play has been communicated to you by  your club or organization.
Tournament or full game play = Your club or team plans on playing a summer tournament (Surf, CRL, West Coast, etc) or some sort of league play during July or August. 

Thank you for sharing and contributing in a positive manner.


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## Mosafie (Jun 14, 2020)

Riverside county announced Wednesday no return for youth or team sports yet. They are not considered day camps by county.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jun 14, 2020)

What’s going on with the great park and south oc?  Are teams beginning to practice during this week of June 15th?


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## paytoplay (Jun 15, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> What’s going on with the great park and south oc?  Are teams beginning to practice during this week of June 15th?


Any word on OC?
Great Park?


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## Messi>CR7 (Jun 15, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Any word on OC?
> Great Park?


Posted by @SoccerFan6 from another thread:
"Irvine has change their tune and is now allowing "modified day camps" starting June 22. I'm sure some clubs will start practicing under that next week."


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## Soccer22 (Jun 15, 2020)

Orange County just approved youth sports to open under camp guidelines this afternoon as San Diego has done so that gives allowance for cities to change their stance. I agree we will start to see teams out there now that city fields will start approving use.


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## jpeter (Jun 23, 2020)

Please vote or update your status so we have a better idea of where we stand as a group of individuals.


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## younothat (Jun 29, 2020)

My player will be attending college and his school is open for workouts

However i heard today the City of Los Angeles has sent out reminders that said no parks or sites that the city operates are open or issuing any permits for any type of organized sports of any kind youth or adults.  No use of parks grounds and no permits for any sports of any kind, no 1-1 training use, no group training, no games, practices, or gatherings of any kind.  If or when  the restrictions are lifted they would let people know.  

This is the hardest line I've seen yet by a city but the sad thing is no timelines where even given. .

LA County also closing beaches this holiday weekend








						LA County Beaches Closed for Fourth of July Weekend
					

All LA County beaches, piers, access points and bike paths were to close for the Fourth of July weekend, county officials announced Monday. Though the LA County Public Health Department did not announce the sweeping step in an early afternoon news conference, despite being asked. The Los Angeles...




					www.nbclosangeles.com


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## Giesbock (Jun 29, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Any word on OC?
> Great Park?


Yes, several teams have started practice at OCGP.  All but one we’re observing very carefully organized spacing between players.  I posted previously that I recall noticing that one team’s practice looked a lot more like a normal practice with players grouped together during water break and gathering around a coach to hear his instruction. 

I caught some heat including being called a little snitch which didn’t make me feel to good.  But everyone’s got a right to their opinion here.


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## Speed (Jun 29, 2020)

I have 2 players playing at OCGP. first got major lecture about whats at risk if rules aren't followed. It was great delivery. The other received very little. This week we received an email from that team that things needed to improve or risk permit being pulled.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 29, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Yes, several teams have started practice at OCGP.  All but one we’re observing very carefully organized spacing between players.  I posted previously that I recall noticing that one team’s practice looked a lot more like a normal practice with players grouped together during water break and gathering around a coach to hear his instruction.
> 
> I caught some heat including being called a little snitch which didn’t make me feel to good.  But everyone’s got a right to their opinion here.


I'm sorry.  I was just frustrated and I feel like everyone is a snitch now.  The news today is just awful and and it's getting worse and it will get even more worse.   LA is closing their beaches again and guess who will be coming to OC beaches?  Maybe OC should close for locals only this July 4th?  Just close it all down and no soccer and no nothing until Nov 4th*.  *I'm done with soccer, I'm serious.  We have bigger issues.  You can have club soccer and college soccer.  All yours.  Enjoy!!!!  I can't speak here anymore I dont think.  PMs are heating up again.  Its weird.


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## Giesbock (Jun 29, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I'm sorry.  I was just frustrated and I feel like everyone is a snitch now.  The news today is just awful and and it's getting worse and it will get even more worse.   LA is closing their beaches again and guess who will be coming to OC beaches?  Maybe OC should close for locals only this July 4th?  Just close it all down and no soccer and no nothing until Nov 4th*.  *I'm done with soccer, I'm serious.  We have bigger issues.  You can have club soccer and college soccer.  All yours.  Enjoy!!!!  I can't speak here anymore I dont think.  PMs are heating up again.  Its weird.


Like I said, I’ll look more closely this week, and will go from there. Maybe I am “misremembering“ what I saw.   @Ellejustus always makes for an interesting conversation so maybe hang in there.  
I for one am leaving the hardcore legalese and completely off topic bigotry to others.  
This is a youth soccer forum after all.  We do have things in common if we get over our righteous selves.


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## Ellejustus (Jun 29, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Like I said, I’ll look more closely this week, and will go from there. Maybe I am “misremembering“ what I saw.   @Ellejustus always makes for an interesting conversation so maybe hang in there.
> I for one am leaving the hardcore legalese and completely off topic bigotry to others.
> This is a youth soccer forum after all.  We do have things in common if we get over our righteous selves.


Amen!!!


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## Kicker4Life (Jun 29, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Like I said, I’ll look more closely this week, and will go from there. Maybe I am “misremembering“ what I saw.   @Ellejustus always makes for an interesting conversation so maybe hang in there.
> I for one am leaving the hardcore legalese and completely off topic bigotry to others.
> This is a youth soccer forum after all.  We do have things in common if we get over our righteous selves.


Well said....sometimes we need a reminder not to proliferate the echo chamber.   Thx


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## espola (Jun 29, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Like I said, I’ll look more closely this week, and will go from there. Maybe I am “misremembering“ what I saw.   @Ellejustus always makes for an interesting conversation so maybe hang in there.
> I for one am leaving the hardcore legalese and completely off topic bigotry to others.
> This is a youth soccer forum after all.  We do have things in common if we get over our righteous selves.


The administrator's malpractice in allowing them to participate can be tempered by use of the ignore function.


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## paytoplay (Jun 29, 2020)

OCGP looked like half capacity. Lots of masks from the players, coaches and parents.


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## lafalafa (Jun 30, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> OCGP looked like half capacity. Lots of masks from the players, coaches and parents.


How are the kids doing? 

6' drills seem ok for awhile but at what point does it become boring or not really interesting?  

Beyond a couple weeks, 4x or more sessions of that some other motivations or training would be nice to keep interest up I would think but how do the kids fell about the "camp" style of distance drill trainings?


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## timbuck (Jun 30, 2020)

All drills and no scrimmage (or any sort of SSG) makes for a bored soccer player.


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## Kicker4Life (Jun 30, 2020)

timbuck said:


> All drills and no scrimmage (or any sort of SSG) makes for a bored soccer player.


Especially olders......Zoom training was cool for a week or so.  Beach started Day Camps yesterday. Did a great job with Drop Off, scanning, 10x10 yd paces for each player and multiple time slots per team.   My DD’s were happy to at least be “distance training” with team mates.

however they are still not yet allowed to pass a ball between players.....which I find difficult to understand the reasoning behind it based on all the science that has come out about surface to human communication.


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## lafalafa (Jun 30, 2020)

timbuck said:


> All drills and no scrimmage (or any sort of SSG) makes for a bored soccer player.


That's what my older players is saying he can do all the drills, shooting, or whatever he wants to without traveling or the hassles.

We have all the equipment and he knows the drills and can practice with a teammate or friends if he wants to at distance.    Until real practicing starts hard to see the value for olders for the camp style training but maybe he's missing something else about it so just wondering?


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## youthsportsugh (Jun 30, 2020)

In NorCal I know some teams have been practicing in groups of 12 for a couple of weeks, others are still working out permits. Those in 12 keep the same groups together with no cross interspersing.


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## Soccerfan2 (Jun 30, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Especially olders......Zoom training was cool for a week or so.  Beach started Day Camps yesterday. Did a great job with Drop Off, scanning, 10x10 yd paces for each player and multiple time slots per team.   My DD’s were happy to at least be “distance training” with team mates.
> 
> however they are still not yet allowed to pass a ball between players.....which I find difficult to understand the reasoning behind it based on all the science that has come out about surface to human communication.


Really? They can’t pass? My girls started no contact skills training too but they can pass when spread out.


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## Kicker4Life (Jun 30, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> Really? They can’t pass? My girls started no contact skills training too but they can pass when spread out.


Nope.
Garcetti thinks it would be sad if little Sally soccer player passed a Covid Ball to her friend and she picks it up and gets Covid.   Despite impossible odds and ALL of the science saying otherwise......but time will tell if they can start passing a ball again.


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## Soccer Bum 06 (Jun 30, 2020)

Rand offers a lot of evidence in his 5 minutes. I want my kid playing soccer and in school come the fall. I believe the science and “experts” agree they are not at risk and are not the ones transmitting COVID.


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## Soccer Bum 06 (Jun 30, 2020)

Soccer Bum 06 said:


> Rand offers a lot of evidence in his 5 minutes. I want my kid playing soccer and in school come the fall. I believe the science and “experts” agree they are not at risk and are not the ones transmitting COVID.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277992212064808962


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## Desert Hound (Jun 30, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> I caught some heat including being called a little snitch which didn’t make me feel to good.


Every authoritarian state needs snitches to help keep the other people in line.


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## gotothebushes (Jun 30, 2020)

youthsportsugh said:


> In NorCal I know some teams have been practicing in groups of 12 for a couple of weeks, others are still working out permits. Those in 12 keep the same groups together with no cross interspersing.


What club is practicing in Norcal?


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## youthsportsugh (Jun 30, 2020)

PSV for 1


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## gotothebushes (Jun 30, 2020)

youthsportsugh said:


> PSV for 1


 OH that's right! Thanks!


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## Soccerfan2 (Jun 30, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Nope.
> Garcetti thinks it would be sad if little Sally soccer player passed a Covid Ball to her friend and she picks it up and gets Covid.   Despite impossible odds and ALL of the science saying otherwise......but time will tell if they can start passing a ball again.


Oh wow. Best of luck for you guys to pass that stage soon!


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## Soccerfan2 (Jun 30, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> What club is practicing in Norcal?


Placer and Davis are. Both Placer and Yolo counties are smaller and in stage 3.


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## Giesbock (Jul 5, 2020)

A few nights ago at OCGP I watched a team working out and ignoring social distance etc.

Guess someone else saw it and made an issue of it. Blues got kicked off.  Not sure for how long. Too bad.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 5, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> A few nights ago at OCGP I watched a team working out and ignoring social distance etc.
> 
> Guess someone else saw it and made an issue of it. Blues got kicked off.  Not sure for how long. Too bad.


it was bound to happen and lets see how this week goes.  I saw a white & blue team and red and black team doing it right.  I thought they had a special permit at first but then my contact told me to just wait.  Is this rumor mill or legit?  I dont want to bug my contact again.


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## GT45 (Jul 5, 2020)

No one got kicked off from the Blues. Just because they chose not to train there does not equate to getting kicked off.


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## Surf Zombie (Jul 5, 2020)

We are in MA. Got hit as hard as anyone. My kids have been practicing for 3 weeks now. 10 kids plus a coach per half field.  Passing, shooting, technical training. State moving into next phase tomorrow. Normal practices, games and tournaments allowed. Both my kids’ clubs will be scrimmaging other clubs within the next two weeks. Biggest tournament of the season in New England is on for Labor Day, so far so good.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 5, 2020)

Surf Zombie said:


> We are in MA. Got hit as hard as anyone. My kids have been practicing for 3 weeks now. 10 kids plus a coach per half field.  Passing, shooting, technical training. State moving into next phase tomorrow. Normal practices, games and tournaments allowed. Both my kids’ clubs will be scrimmaging other clubs within the next two weeks. Biggest tournament of the season in New England is on for Labor Day, so far so good.


Hey, can I my dd guest play if Surf Cup is cancelled?


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## Giesbock (Jul 5, 2020)

We


GT45 said:


> No one got kicked off from the Blues. Just because they chose not to train there does not equate to getting kicked off.


They were there one night and I guess they found a more accommodating place to train.  ?  If you have specific knowledge, do share.


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## GT45 (Jul 6, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> We
> 
> They were there one night and I guess they found a more accommodating place to train.  ?  If you have specific knowledge, do share.


I do have specific knowledge but I do not owe you an explanation for your false rumor posting. They chose not to train there that night. Simple.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 6, 2020)

GT45 said:


> I do have specific knowledge but I do not owe you an explanation for your false rumor posting. They chose not to train there that night. Simple.


Whatever you do, don;t share where.  I never thought in my wildest dreams we would have this hard of time to play soccer again.  Wowza is all I can say!!!


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## timbuck (Jul 6, 2020)

Saw a team last week that had their “social distance” practice on weds. Followed the correct protocols. 
On Thursday, they showed up at a field to play “pick up” soccer. No official coaches so I guess they can touch each other and play full contact. Not sure the virus recognizes the difference.


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## Giesbock (Jul 6, 2020)

GT45 said:


> I do have specific knowledge but I do not owe you an explanation for your false rumor posting. They chose not to train there that night. Simple.


Fair enough


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## lafalafa (Jul 6, 2020)

Clarification on restrictions or cities not going along with the camp guidance anymore?





						July 6, 2020 Update - County of San Bernardino - CountyWire
					

The County Update is now publishing three days a week (Monday, Wednesday and Friday) and also as needed, in order to share important news and resources in our battle against COVID-19 and to keep our economy running. We remain here for you. #SBCountyTogether For latest Statistics and link to our...



					wp.sbcounty.gov
				



"
New Restrictions on Youth Sports

Along with the closing of indoor operations to prevent the spread of COVID-19, youth sports are not allowed under current state guidelines. Many counties, including the County of San Bernardino, were under the impression that youth sports for purposes of conditioning, drills and exercise activities were allowed with social distancing, frequent hand washing and use of masks when closer than six feet or indoors. However, according to the state this is not the case.

At this time recreational team and youth sports of any kind, including purposes of conditioning, drills and exercise activities are *not permitted*. It is unfortunate and we understand that children would like the opportunity to participate in their normal team activities but now is not the time to let our guard down. We will share official guidelines for recreational team and youth sports when they are made available by the state. In the meantime, we encourage you to do your part to prevent the spread of COVID-19.

Apparently Brea and other cities in OC are taking or considering not permitted youth sports of any kind?  Sad if true, but what's the latest?  Practicing still on for this week on the OC?


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## electrichead72 (Jul 6, 2020)

I'm trying to judge, probably incorrectly, how everyone here feels about getting their kid back out there to practice and play. Training is one thing, but once (if) games startup, soccer is a contact sport, so none of these kids are going to be able to "social distance" while playing.

I'm curious if you think your kid is going to catch it and if it's a big deal.

I don't think much will come of it if one of my kids gets it. They're young and healthy and my wife and I will be fine, so I'm not really worried about it, just curious to see what others in this position think about the whole thing without getting political about it. 

I think for the most part everything about this is being blown out of proportion, but that's for another thread.


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## soccer4us (Jul 6, 2020)




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## soccer4us (Jul 6, 2020)

soccer4us said:


> View attachment 8061


VP Spartans, The Orange County Dept of Education, under the recommendation of the Department of Health, is suspending youth & high school sports “until there is specific guidance provided by the California Dept of Public Health regarding...school-based sports.”  Stay positive!


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## watfly (Jul 6, 2020)

electrichead72 said:


> I'm curious if you think your kid is going to catch it and if it's a big deal.


No and big no.  There is no evidence of any material outbreaks in the country from kids playing sports and in some states kids have been playing for awhile.  Some child care has been open the entire time, particularly for essential workers, and there is no evidence of kids contracting and spreading Covid.  Use common sense, certainly temp check kids before play and make parents to physically distance 6ft or wear a mask.  It's pretty simple.


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## Dummy (Jul 6, 2020)

electrichead72 said:


> I'm trying to judge, probably incorrectly, how everyone here feels about getting their kid back out there to practice and play. Training is one thing, but once (if) games startup, soccer is a contact sport, so none of these kids are going to be able to "social distance" while playing.
> 
> I'm curious if you think your kid is going to catch it and if it's a big deal.
> 
> ...


We live around the corner from a nursing home that had approximately 20 deaths a few months ago.  When they cleared the facility, ambulances came in pairs for hours and hours.  We were sheltering in place and watched them all come and go down our street all day long.

My wife and I also work in places that are impacted by COVID-19.  My wife sees the positive test rate going up every week.  I see the impact the the ER and ICU in the hospital where I work.

For a long time, we were waiting for the wave to hit.  It finally did.

We have loved club soccer.  My daughter had a great run, and my son was just hitting his stride in his run.  To me, everything is different now, and soccer is non-essential.

Part of what I consider, is the risk of dying, which may be low.  Other things I consider are the cost of an ICU stay, the cost of hospitalization, and even just the lost wages that come with being COVID-positive.

I always hear concerning statistics about how the number once cause of bankruptcy is medical expenses.  Club soccer is a luxury that won’t survive bankruptcy.

My daughter now plays in college.  My hope is that there won’t be a season, and she will focus on her studies.  We anticipate keeping our son out of club soccer this year.  We paid his fees in full and will not seek a refund because we want to support our coach and club.

One reason we currently keep my son out of training is because as seriously as the club takes infection control, it is not clear to us that every other family at training does, so it is not worth the risk.  Games with strangers in the foreseeable future?  No way.

“Tragedy is when I get a hangnail.  Comedy is when you get run over by a car.”  I do not expect other families to keep my family safe.  My wife and I are willing to take the responsibility to keep our kids from playing in traffic.

The best freely accessible source of information in my opinion comes from CIDRAP at the University of Minnesota.









						Homepage | CIDRAP
					






					www.cidrap.umn.edu
				




The Osterholm Update is an excellent podcast produced by CIDRAP that is well worth listing to weekly.

I am fortunate to have many sources of medical information to choose from, and I keep mentioning this one because it provides the most comprehensive perspective.

Best of luck to all.  Be safe.


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## gkmom (Jul 7, 2020)

Dummy said:


> We live around the corner from a nursing home that had approximately 20 deaths a few months ago.  When they cleared the facility, ambulances came in pairs for hours and hours.  We were sheltering in place and watched them all come and go down our street all day long.
> 
> My wife and I also work in places that are impacted by COVID-19.  My wife sees the positive test rate going up every week.  I see the impact the the ER and ICU in the hospital where I work.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this perspective. It seems that many on here have a different perspective. Which is, there is no risk to kids so let them play. What I think this perspective misses is the risk of spread, not only among players, but parents as well. It's not as simple as wear a mask, stay six feet apart. People come with good intentions, but it's easy to slip up and unfortunately there's always at least one asshole who doesn't follow the rules. Not to mention the players that are in their teens and can get sick and spread the virus. I choose to follow the advice of the medical experts, not the soccer parents who think they know more than them.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

Dummy said:


> *We live around the corner from a nursing home that had approximately 20 deaths a few months ago*.  When they cleared the facility, ambulances came in pairs for hours and hours.  We were sheltering in place and watched them all come and go down our street all day long.
> 
> My wife and I also work in places that are impacted by COVID-19.  My wife sees the positive test rate going up every week.  I see the impact the the ER and ICU in the hospital where I work.
> 
> ...


The moral of the story is to do whatever the heck you can to keep your parents from nursing homes.  So sad to see old people just dropped off at nursing home and then they catch the Corona and die because no one is watching over them ((not all, some good ones but....)).  Anyway, I agree that soccer is non essential and my dd has moved on with other sports and activities.  She and I have a 5% hope she can play one more game.  Stay safe folks!!!


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## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

gkmom said:


> Thank you for this perspective. It seems that many on here have a different perspective. *Which is, there is no risk to kids so let them play*. What I think this perspective misses is the risk of spread, not only among players, but parents as well. It's not as simple as wear a mask, stay six feet apart. People come with good intentions, but it's easy to slip up and unfortunately there's *always at least one asshole who doesn't follow the rules.* Not to mention the players that are in their teens and can get sick and spread the virus. I choose to follow the advice of the medical experts, not the soccer parents who think they know more than them.


No risk is true.  The only risk to our family is Grandpa and Grandma on my wife side.  We have not seen them in 6 months.  That is by choice.  My mom would have 100% stay home so kids can play.  BTW, rule breakers are everywhere and it goes all the way to the top.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 7, 2020)

gkmom said:


> Thank you for this perspective. It seems that many on here have a different perspective. Which is, there is no risk to kids so let them play. What I think this perspective misses is the risk of spread, not only among players, but parents as well. It's not as simple as wear a mask, stay six feet apart. People come with good intentions, but it's easy to slip up and unfortunately there's always at least one asshole who doesn't follow the rules. Not to mention the players that are in their teens and can get sick and spread the virus. I choose to follow the advice of the medical experts, not the soccer parents who think they know more than them.


I have a different perspective. It's very hard for me to follow advise of so called "experts" when they change their advise every day. I have no problem wearing a mask and with having pre-teen kids sitting at home, but good luck with having teens locked up. Long term mental result of this will be devastating.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I have a different perspective. It's very hard for me to follow advise of so called "experts" when they change their advise every day. I have no problem wearing a mask and with having pre-teen kids sitting at home, but good luck with having teens locked up. Long term mental result of this will be devastating.


The teens are out!!!  I know so many stories I just won;t share them here because we have snitches paroling Social Media big time.  I will say the news is really good on the virus but not so good with other teen issues.  Good luck parents and be there to listen to the kids.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)




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## gkmom (Jul 7, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I have a different perspective. It's very hard for me to follow advise of so called "experts" when they change their advise every day. I have no problem wearing a mask and with having pre-teen kids sitting at home, but good luck with having teens locked up. Long term mental result of this will be devastating.


I'm not locking my teen up by any means. Just finding alternative activities. Cycling, hiking, running, tennis, lots of safe outings with friends. Just not contact sports with coronavirus denier parents on the sidelines for us right now. Also, the advice of medical experts seems pretty consistent. Sure, some recommendations have changed as they learn more about this brand new virus.


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## watfly (Jul 7, 2020)

Dummy said:


> We live around the corner from a nursing home that had approximately 20 deaths a few months ago.  When they cleared the facility, ambulances came in pairs for hours and hours.  We were sheltering in place and watched them all come and go down our street all day long.
> 
> My wife and I also work in places that are impacted by COVID-19.  My wife sees the positive test rate going up every week.  I see the impact the the ER and ICU in the hospital where I work.
> 
> ...


What has happened at our nursing homes is horrific and the failure of leadership in some areas for not providing extreme targeted protection is criminal.

Thank you for the CIDRAP link.  I did a search on "youth Covid" on CIDRAP and I didn't see any article regarding youth outbreaks or evidence of youth spread of Covid to older adults.  Other than one mention of a breakout among youth at a detention facility in Louisiana.  In contrast there were a few articles, or links, to articles about the concern for the non-Covid health impacts of "school closings, social distancing, overwhelming numbers of distressing public health messages, and cancelation of non-urgent healthcare visits" for vulnerable or at risk youth (ie low socioeconomic families).

In fact a link to an article from the American Academy of Pedriatrics said this about social distancing, sheltering in place with abusive parents, lack of health treatment for other health issues (including mental).
*"These conditions highlight how morbidity and mortality in vulnerable pediatric populations will likely extend beyond the pandemic itself."*

Please don't listen to me or any other soccer parent regarding the risks to youth of Covid.  But please do your own research and don't just assume youth are at high risk or are spreaders of Covid because your a victim of the fear mongering you hear on TV.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

watfly said:


> What has happened at our nursing homes is horrific and the failure of leadership in some areas for not providing extreme targeted protection is criminal.
> 
> Thank you for the CIDRAP link.  I did a search on "youth Covid" on CIDRAP and I didn't see any article regarding youth outbreaks or evidence of youth spread of Covid to older adults.  Other than one mention of a breakout among youth at a detention facility in Louisiana.  In contrast there were a few articles, or links, to articles about the concern for the non-Covid health impacts of "school closings, social distancing, overwhelming numbers of distressing public health messages, and cancelation of non-urgent healthcare visits" for vulnerable or at risk youth (ie low socioeconomic families).
> 
> ...


The things going on in these abusive homes in so scary, no one is talking about it.  No father to help the boy treat the girls with respect and no respect for adults.  My higher ed friend said many teachers who make the drive to LA are not coming back without school police and safety.  I'm not sure a white teacher at LAUSD is going to be successful or have respect in the class anymore.  A white history teacher should not be even listen too. This is real politics folks and the adults who don;t want to lose power are not going to give up, regardless of what happens to old people, teens or babies that are not born yet.  We ALL get to decide Nov 3rd what direction you want for you, your loved ones and the future generations to come.  I will support whatever happens Nov 3rd.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> The teens are out!!!  I know so many stories I just won;t share them here because we have snitches paroling Social Media big time.  I will say the news is really good on the virus but not so good with other teen issues.  Good luck parents and be there to listen to the kids.


What is the good news on the Virus?


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

gkmom said:


> I'm not locking my teen up by any means. Just finding alternative activities. Cycling, hiking, running, tennis, lots of safe outings with friends. Just not contact sports with coronavirus denier parents on the sidelines for us right now. Also, the advice of medical experts seems pretty consistent. Sure, some recommendations have changed as they learn more about this brand new virus.


Agree totally.  I don't rely only on government medical experts.  Large amounts of highly regarded medical experts are also concluding with similar findings.


----------



## chiefs (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> What is the good news on the Virus?


No good news but at least deaths are at its lowest point for a long time.
209 deaths Sunday, down 23% from last Sunday.  Lowest Sunday since March 28.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I have a different perspective. It's very hard for me to follow advise of so called "experts" when they change their advise every day. I have no problem wearing a mask and with having pre-teen kids sitting at home, but good luck with having teens locked up. Long term mental result of this will be devastating.


Sorry...I laughed when I read your post because it is sooooo over dramatic.  I adopted my oldest daughter from an orphanage when she was 4.5 years old and she suffers from developmental trauma and severe depression moderate recurrent.  In all of my research over the years related to Trauma, never once did I read trauma caused by not being able to play a sport.  I did read about Trauma caused by social isolation but the reality is, social media has helped alleviate that issue.    Also the kids can meet in a park socially distanced, can go for a walk socially distanced, and meet at Starbucks socially distanced.  My daughter is pretty tenacious and has found many alternatives.     Does this suck for them?  Absolutely!  Trauma from it?  Highly unlikely.

What I did read is trauma caused by themselves ending up in the hospital, a parent or other family member ending up in the hospital or dying, or the rest of the obvious abuse and the like.  Like GKMOM said, they have found alternatives.  This is a great opportunity to teach children coping skills and how to look for solutions instead of at the problem.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

chiefs said:


> No good news but at least deaths are at its lowest point for a long time.
> 209 deaths Sunday, down 23% from last Sunday.  Lowest Sunday since March 28.


I have learned you can't look at weekend numbers because they don't have all hospitals reporting.  Tuesday through Friday is generally the most reliable picture (I say that loosely) of what is occurring.  We are experiencing greater than 30% increase in hospitalizations per week and the age o hospitalizations is going down 20 to 49.  I confirmed that info with nurses from a large hospital in OC.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

gkmom said:


> I'm not locking my teen up by any means. Just finding alternative activities. Cycling, hiking, running, tennis, lots of safe outings with friends. Just not contact sports with coronavirus denier parents on the sidelines for us right now. Also, the advice of medical experts seems pretty consistent. Sure, some recommendations have changed as they learn more about this brand new virus.


1. There's no "safe" outing with friends.  If your teen is with friends, you are taking a risk they are exposed to the virus, particularly because so many teens are asymptomatic.  By doing that you are just as guily as the deniers or protestors of spreading the virus.
2. The advice of the so-called experts has been anything but consistent.  No masks, then masks.  1 month lockdown, then more lockdowns.  Gyms open, but not even distanced sports.  BLM protests o.k. but antilock protests spreads the virus.  HDQ works, no it doesn't, yes it does.  There hasn't been anything that's consistent or makes sense, nor should there be because no one really knows what they are doing (as the point out).  The flaw is in the experts making it seem to everyone else like they know what they are doing.  And it doesn't have very much to do about learning more stuff about the virus...we've known the basics of this since the Diamond Princess.  People have a responsibility not just to defer to the experts, but to think for themselves and get critically educated.
3. The CFR (not IFR which is a fixed number) continues to fall on this thing despite the rise in cases.  Yes, it's serious.  Yes, it's more serious than the flu.  But if you look around the world it's increasingly looking like nothing works to contain it...you just have to burn through a certain amount and eventually it settles down.  I don't get the fear porn.  The worst (nationally, not regionally) really is behind us.
4. The way this is going down I'm pretty sure now no fall season (quite possibly for any sport) and even the schools are looking iffy.  I said it a few months ago...get out of Cali if you can.


----------



## Dof3 (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Agree totally.  I don't rely only on government medical experts.  Large amounts of highly regarded medical experts are also concluding with similar findings.


Are any of those medical experts among the 1300 who approved street protests for racial justice issues and denounced street protests of health orders?  One of the big issues now (and I fear is an issue that will long survive this COVID crisis) is that our experts have willfully provided misinformation (Dr. Fauci and the "masks are worthless" of March in order to preserve them for health care workers???  Who made Dr. Fauci a god who gets to decide to put average people at risk based on a statement he knew to be false when he made it?  How many people got sick who may not have had they or others been wearing a mask?  How many of them died?  We can't have it both ways.  Masks are worthless or Dr. Fauci's willful misstatements resulted in people DYING).  These same experts elected to get political about the transmission risk of a highly contagious virus based on what the group of people were discussing and now they are incentivized to spin data to reinforce a narrative they chained themselves to.  People don't trust them.  And it is not just soccer parent deniers (whatever that means).  Who here has a lower opinion of the CDC than they did 1 year ago?  I do.  Who here would have expected medical experts to take positions on protests during a pandemic based on the protests content?  Not me.

So now I want to see the studies.  Where is the data that says children in school are spreading the disease in a serious way?  And how is that lightly studied risk balanced against the known deleterious effects of distance learning?  Against the mental health effects of lockdowns and abnormal isolation?  On the consequences to people's financial security and the long term economic welfare of a country now adding trillions and trillions of dollars to its national debt?  Who pays for the medical care of the 40 million people who have lost their jobs?  What will the long term effect of that be on health care providers?   

Orange County recently (and this may still be the case) prohibited sandcastle building at the beach due to COVID.  Really?  Racial justice protests are OK but no gatherings for the 4th of July by order of the governor??  George Floyd's funerals are fine but nobody else can bury their dead?  Protests are OK but not OK for a father to see his child born?  Or family to visit a dying person in a hospital?  Ok to shop at Target but not Best Buy?  The wild irrationality and too often political nature of these positions has undermined credibility of both public officials and private experts.  That's scary, has killed people and will kill more people.  Americans are not an ungovernable people.  But infantilizing, inconsistent nonsense is poor public policy, as is politicizing a public health issue.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Sorry...I laughed when I read your post because it is* sooooo over dramatic. * I adopted my oldest daughter from an orphanage when she was 4.5 years old and she suffers from developmental trauma and severe depression moderate recurrent.  In all of my research over the years related to Trauma, never once did I read trauma caused by not being able to play a sport.  I did read about Trauma caused by social isolation but the reality is, social media has helped alleviate that issue.    Also the kids can meet in a park socially distanced, can go for a walk socially distanced, and meet at Starbucks socially distanced.  My daughter is pretty tenacious and has found many alternatives.     Does this suck for them?  Absolutely!  Trauma from it?  Highly unlikely.
> 
> What I did read is trauma caused by themselves ending up in the hospital, a parent or other family member ending up in the hospital or dying, or the rest of the obvious abuse and the like.  Like GKMOM said, they have found alternatives.  This is a great opportunity to teach children coping skills and how to look for solutions instead of at the problem.


Do you know anyone who lost someone to suicide?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> What is the good news on the Virus?


The good news is young people are not dying from Corona and they have a better chance of living then the regular flu.  That is good news compared to the bad news on the news and what we knew about Corona in March.  Many unknowns still but what I do know is many on here have made it political, just like some did with soccer. Same folks, different strokes.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> 1. There's no "safe" outing with friends.  If your teen is with friends, you are taking a risk they are exposed to the virus, particularly because so many teens are asymptomatic.  By doing that you are just as guily as the deniers or protestors of spreading the virus.
> 2. The advice of the so-called experts has been anything but consistent.  No masks, then masks.  1 month lockdown, then more lockdowns.  Gyms open, but not even distanced sports.  BLM protests o.k. but antilock protests spreads the virus.  HDQ works, no it doesn't, yes it does.  There hasn't been anything that's consistent or makes sense, nor should there be because no one really knows what they are doing (as the point out).  The flaw is in the experts making it seem to everyone else like they know what they are doing.  And it doesn't have very much to do about learning more stuff about the virus...we've known the basics of this since the Diamond Princess.  People have a responsibility not just to defer to the experts, but to think for themselves and get critically educated.
> 3. The CFR (not IFR which is a fixed number) continues to fall on this thing despite the rise in cases.  Yes, it's serious.  Yes, it's more serious than the flu.  But if you look around the world it's increasingly looking like nothing works to contain it...you just have to burn through a certain amount and eventually it settles down.  I don't get the fear porn.  The worst (nationally, not regionally) really is behind us.
> 4. The way this is going down I'm pretty sure now no fall season (quite possibly for any sport) and even the schools are looking iffy.  I said it a few months ago...get out of Cali if you can.





Ellejustus said:


> The good news is young people are not dying from Corona and they have a better chance of living then the regular flu.  That is good news compared to the bad news on the news and what we knew about Corona in March.  Many unknowns still but what I do know is many on here have made it political, just like you did with soccer. Same folks, different strokes.


Just like I did with soccer?  WTH are you talking about?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Just like I did with soccer?  WTH are you talking about?


Grace or EJ?  Oops, I wrote wrong again.  This was directed only to the true elitists. I was generalizing and I shouldnt have your quote.  I will correct that.  Sorry and I mean that.  Its me not understanding.  Please forgive, TY.  P.S.  The value you get for a platinum membership is you can delete anything you want.  I'm always open to listening where I make mistakes.


----------



## watfly (Jul 7, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Do you know anyone who lost someone to suicide?


Unfortunately, a very good friend lost their son to suicide during the lockdown.  Whether the lockdown impacted his actions, we will likely never know.
I don't know anyone that's a few degrees removed from me that has died of Covid, but I do know a couple other teens in the community that have committed suicide during Covid.  Devastating regardless of the cause.


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Sorry...I laughed when I read your post because it is sooooo over dramatic.  I adopted my oldest daughter from an orphanage when she was 4.5 years old and she suffers from developmental trauma and severe depression moderate recurrent.  In all of my research over the years related to Trauma, never once did I read trauma caused by not being able to play a sport.  I did read about Trauma caused by social isolation but the reality is, social media has helped alleviate that issue.    Also the kids can meet in a park socially distanced, can go for a walk socially distanced, and meet at Starbucks socially distanced.  My daughter is pretty tenacious and has found many alternatives.     Does this suck for them?  Absolutely!  Trauma from it?  Highly unlikely.
> 
> What I did read is trauma caused by themselves ending up in the hospital, a parent or other family member ending up in the hospital or dying, or the rest of the obvious abuse and the like.  Like GKMOM said, they have found alternatives.  This is a great opportunity to teach children coping skills and how to look for solutions instead of at the problem.


Can you please point out to me where in my post anything being mentioned about sports?


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> 1. There's no "safe" outing with friends.  If your teen is with friends, you are taking a risk they are exposed to the virus, particularly because so many teens are asymptomatic.  By doing that you are just as guily as the deniers or protestors of spreading the virus.
> 2. The advice of the so-called experts has been anything but consistent.  No masks, then masks.  1 month lockdown, then more lockdowns.  Gyms open, but not even distanced sports.  BLM protests o.k. but antilock protests spreads the virus.  HDQ works, no it doesn't, yes it does.  There hasn't been anything that's consistent or makes sense, nor should there be because no one really knows what they are doing (as the point out).  The flaw is in the experts making it seem to everyone else like they know what they are doing.  And it doesn't have very much to do about learning more stuff about the virus...we've known the basics of this since the Diamond Princess.  People have a responsibility not just to defer to the experts, but to think for themselves and get critically educated.
> 3. The CFR (not IFR which is a fixed number) continues to fall on this thing despite the rise in cases.  Yes, it's serious.  Yes, it's more serious than the flu.  But if you look around the world it's increasingly looking like nothing works to contain it...you just have to burn through a certain amount and eventually it settles down.  I don't get the fear porn.  The worst (nationally, not regionally) really is behind us.
> 4. The way this is going down I'm pretty sure now no fall season (quite possibly for any sport) and even the schools are looking iffy.  I said it a few months ago...get out of Cali if you can.


I am surprised by your post because you usually have a very fact based response.  If you look around the world you see the countries that have succeeded in diminishing the spread have done some pretty severe things like lock downs and the like or they have learned from experience like South Korea who learned from H1N1 when they didn't have any PPE on hand, and didn't know the importance of contact tracing.  They were shut down for little time because they had recently been through it and learned from their mistakes.  They also wear masks!   Your analysis alludes to herd immunity and that has already been debunked by medical experts.  I point you to what is happening in Sweden.   What countries are you referring to that it just settles down?

There is no 100% safe even in your home with food being delivered.  There doesn't need to be an all or nothing solution and especially given this virus and what we do know today, you can sit 10ft. apart both wearing masks and your likelihood of getting it or giving it is slim.  What we know today is the bigger droplets carry more viral loads and cotton cloth masks are the best option (not better than N95 but better than the others) at stopping those bigger droplets.   My adult daughter wears a mask with a filter and a shield.  Basically you have to manage living with risk keeping it risk of spreading as low as possible.  

I agree with you about no soccer in fall.  Do they have soccer going on in Texas and Arizona?










						Some Countries Have Brought New Cases Down To Nearly Zero. How Did They Do It?
					

It's a diverse mix of places — New Zealand, Vietnam, Germany, Costa Rica. We look at the keys to their success in controlling the coronavirus.




					www.npr.org


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Can you please point out to me where in my post anything being mentioned about sports?


I guess I inferred since you are on a soccer chat.


----------



## Dummy (Jul 7, 2020)

watfly said:


> What has happened at our nursing homes is horrific and the failure of leadership in some areas for not providing extreme targeted protection is criminal.
> 
> Thank you for the CIDRAP link.  I did a search on "youth Covid" on CIDRAP and I didn't see any article regarding youth outbreaks or evidence of youth spread of Covid to older adults.  Other than one mention of a breakout among youth at a detention facility in Louisiana.  In contrast there were a few articles, or links, to articles about the concern for the non-Covid health impacts of "school closings, social distancing, overwhelming numbers of distressing public health messages, and cancelation of non-urgent healthcare visits" for vulnerable or at risk youth (ie low socioeconomic families).
> 
> ...


I am glad that you explored the CIDRAP website.  I think you will like the Osterholm Update because he doesn’t take an all or nothing approach to the public health responses to COVID-19.  He talks about balancing risks and benefits on individual and societal levels based on his review of the most up to date science.  He is thoughtful.

Figuring out what is happening with the kids is difficult because it is incredibly challenging to conduct scientific research on minors.  They are rightly protected by IRBs, which makes prospective research very difficult.  Most kids (hopefully) are protected by parents and out of school, so nobody is able to measure what the risks are, which is making retrospective research difficult too.  My sense is that there won’t be any well done studies to guide timely decision making about what to do with kids until after actual decisions are made.  Future researchers will look back on what we do as parents and draw conclusions.

I share the CIDRAP link (and push the Osterholm Update) so parents can be as informed as possible when making choices for their kids in an uncertain present (which is different in degree but not in kind from youth club soccer!).

Thank you again for checking out CIDRAP and for sharing the summary of the broad scope that it takes when considering the risks of COVID-19 and the impacts of various public health responses.

Best of luck to all.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Grace or EJ?  Oops, I wrote wrong again.  This was directed only to the true elitists. I was generalizing and I shouldnt have your quote.  I will correct that.  Sorry and I mean that.  Its me not understanding.  Please forgive, TY.  P.S.  The value you get for a platinum membership is you can delete anything you want.  I'm always open to listening where I make mistakes.


Awe...I was wondering because I thought Brady Bunch bonded us for life.  LOL  No worries...I was shocked which is why the comment "WTH"....I have stayed away from politics on here.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Do you know anyone who lost someone to suicide?


During COVID, no.  What I do know about Suicide in teens is there is generally an underlying condition such as depression that is different than the kind of depression that people generally deal with.  People that haven't experienced it really struggle with understanding it.  It is so heartbreaking.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I am surprised by your post because you usually have a very fact based response.  If you look around the world you see the countries that have succeeded in diminishing the spread have done some pretty severe things like lock downs and the like or they have learned from experience like South Korea who learned from H1N1 when they didn't have any PPE on hand, and didn't know the importance of contact tracing.  They were shut down for little time because they had recently been through it and learned from their mistakes.  They also wear masks!   Your analysis alludes to herd immunity and that has already been debunked by medical experts.  I point you to what is happening in Sweden.   What countries are you referring to that it just settles down?


p.s. it's a myth that everyone in Europe wears a mask.  Their mask usage is actually about on par as ours and some of the lightest hit countries don't require them.  Germany itself is a mish mosh of mask usage and no mask usage.  They certainly help, but it's becoming evident the surgical masks, bandanas and most cloth masks do very little (like stopping mosquistos with a chain link fence) and if we wanted a solid mask program the government should be handing out at least high quality cloth masks or better grade.  From the early studies, particuarly in Germany, they might help about 40%.  Helpful, not great.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> p.s. it's a myth that everyone in Europe wears a mask.  Their mask usage is actually about on par as ours and some of the lightest hit countries don't require them.  Germany itself is a mish mosh of mask usage and no mask usage.  They certainly help, but it's becoming evident the surgical masks, bandanas and most cloth masks do very little (like stopping mosquistos with a chain link fence) and if we wanted a solid mask program the government should be handing out at least high quality cloth masks or better grade.  From the early studies, particuarly in Germany, they might help about 40%.  Helpful, not great.


I've done very extensive studies of the other countries.  No one is really doing great.  The Northern states hit most likely like Norway and Denmark don't require masks.  South Korea's Test and Trace (which was extreme and involved removing people and forcing them to quarantine in hotels) has had limited success and they've had a second wave and ongoing rolling lockdowns.   Germany has less testing now than the US, it isn't always free, and you can't get it on demand even if you don't have symptoms (like you can in Los Angeles).  The only thing that seems to have worked is after your initial wave your transmission rates drop (we see it in Spain, Italy, the UK, France, New York).  The South and Eastern Europe probably locked down too early....the only thing those lockdowns seem to do is to push back the wave later in time....unless you perpetually lock down the initial wave will happen.  Lockdowns seem to have marginal utility as well (if timed perfectly by holding down the peek of the wave) but no country has broken its wave.  Only China (if you believe them) seems to have had any success but that's with forced testing of its population and welding people shut in their apartments.  Mexico has had a horrible outbreak and at least part of what we are seeing is spillage across the border (from US citizens, white and Latino, retired snowbirds or seasonal workers, going across for medical care).


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> During COVID, no.  What I do know about Suicide in teens is there is generally an* underlying condition such as depression *that is different than the kind of depression that people generally deal with.  *People that haven't experienced it really struggle with understanding it.*  It is so heartbreaking.


Why does a teen kill themselves?  Why does someone get the Corona?  So the facts are that old people with underlying health conditions are dying from the Corona.  Teens are not dying of Corona but are dying in record numbers from suicide.  We need to find out why they are saying goodbye to all of us and not make fun of them.  I dont you think are one, but I have Elitist friend and that's all they say.  "Probably had some depressed teen who had a t supporter as a dad."  I actually heard that come back yesterday.  It's all t's fault.  The oldest among us have lived a long life already.  The one's who drank, smoked, ate whatever the heck they wanted and never exercised are scared of death and want everyone on lock down.  Some said this would have been a great time to get their asses in shape and stop taking all the meds from big pharma and I agree.  Anyway, the Brady Bunch rocks and I wish I was 10 again.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I've done very extensive studies of the other countries.  No one is really doing great.  The Northern states hit most likely like Norway and Denmark don't require masks.  South Korea's Test and Trace (which was extreme and involved removing people and forcing them to quarantine in hotels) has had limited success and they've had a second wave and ongoing rolling lockdowns.   Germany has less testing now than the US, it isn't always free, and you can't get it on demand even if you don't have symptoms (like you can in Los Angeles).  The only thing that seems to have worked is after your initial wave your transmission rates drop (we see it in Spain, Italy, the UK, France, New York).  The South and Eastern Europe probably locked down too early....the only thing those lockdowns seem to do is to push back the wave later in time....unless you perpetually lock down the initial wave will happen.  Lockdowns seem to have marginal utility as well (if timed perfectly by holding down the peek of the wave) but no country has broken its wave.  Only China (if you believe them) seems to have had any success but that's with forced testing of its population and welding people shut in their apartments.


Well you better watch what you say in Cali or they will weld your mouth shut with staples.  Trust me, they tried this on me with soccer.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Why does a teen kill themselves?  Why does someone get the Corona?  So the facts are that old people with underlying health conditions are dying from the Corona.  Teens are not dying of Corona but are dying in record numbers from suicide.  We need to find out why they are saying goodbye to all of us and not make fun of them.  I dont you think are one, but I have Elitist friend and that's all they say.  "Probably had some depressed teen who had a t supporter as a dad."  I actually heard that come back yesterday.  It's all t's fault.  The oldest among us have lived a long life already.  The one's who drank, smoked, ate whatever the heck they wanted and never exercised are scared of death and want everyone on lock down.  Some said this would have been a great time to get their asses in shape and stop taking all the meds from big pharma and I agree.  Anyway, the Brady Bunch rocks and I wish I was 10 again.


Please share where you are getting your information on record numbers of suicide related to teenagers?  I am interested.  I absolutely do not dismiss any suicide.  I know more about it than I am willing to share here.

Having said that, dismissing the oldest on the basis of they have "lived a long life already" is diminishing the value of life itself and placing a value of a person which is a very slippery slope and history has shown us how terrible that can be.  When you have walked the halls with people that are fighting for one more year of life, then talk to me.

By the way, 1 in 10 people with diabetes and COVID will die.  Not all people get diabetes from being out of shape.  Some people get it because of genetics.   A significant amount of people with underlying conditions has nothing to do with being out of shape or not taking care of themselves.

Again....the various levels of lock down has NOTHING to do with number of deaths.  It has to do with the rate of the spread of the illness.  Who is spreading the illness right now?  20 to 49 year olds.  If you don't diminish rate of the spread, you risk an overwhelming of the hospital system.  Take a look at Arizona and Texas who didn't decide to make changes until at 89% capacity.   For the last 3 weeks we have been increasing hospitalizations at least 27% to 36% per week (today was is 27% when compared to last Tuesday).  If we continue at that rate, we reach capacity (not considering surge capacity) at the end of August.  I am not sure the recent mandates will be enough to slow it down and we won't know for about another 14 to 21 days.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I've done very extensive studies of the other countries.  No one is really doing great.  The Northern states hit most likely like Norway and Denmark don't require masks.  South Korea's Test and Trace (which was extreme and involved removing people and forcing them to quarantine in hotels) has had limited success and they've had a second wave and ongoing rolling lockdowns.   Germany has less testing now than the US, it isn't always free, and you can't get it on demand even if you don't have symptoms (like you can in Los Angeles).  The only thing that seems to have worked is after your initial wave your transmission rates drop (we see it in Spain, Italy, the UK, France, New York).  The South and Eastern Europe probably locked down too early....the only thing those lockdowns seem to do is to push back the wave later in time....unless you perpetually lock down the initial wave will happen.  Lockdowns seem to have marginal utility as well (if timed perfectly by holding down the peek of the wave) but no country has broken its wave.  Only China (if you believe them) seems to have had any success but that's with forced testing of its population and welding people shut in their apartments.  Mexico has had a horrible outbreak and at least part of what we are seeing is spillage across the border (from US citizens, white and Latino, retired snowbirds or seasonal workers, going across for medical care).


I was responding to your original post that said "if you look around the world it's increasingly looking like nothing works to contain it...you just have to burn through a certain amount and eventually it settles down.  I don't get the fear porn.  The worst (nationally, not regionally) really is behind us."  It appears what you are saying above does not match up with your original statement.  The worst is behind us?  So how does the 30% increase in hospitalizations per week indicate the worst is behind us?


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## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Please share where you are getting your information on record numbers of suicide related to teenagers?  I am interested.  I absolutely do not dismiss any suicide. * I know more about it than I am willing to share here.*
> 
> Having said that, dismissing the oldest on the basis of they have "lived a long life already" is diminishing the value of life itself and placing a value of a person which is a very slippery slope and history has shown us how terrible that can be.  When you have walked the halls with people that are fighting for one more year of life, then talk to me.
> 
> ...


I'm truly sorry.  My mother in law has diabetes and asthma.  She stays home and that's ok and she's ok with that. My sister in law does all the errands.  I posted an English paper my dd wrote and posted it on here about her friends sister hanging herself from a tree.  I also know of "pressure cooker suicide" that many teens did or are going to do because some felt or feel pressure to perform in our society and how one has to be a perfect student, top soccer player, stay out of trouble, get highest SAT, study, no social life because and coaches who screamed their asses off and blamed some GKs for the loss.  Or, the girl who missed her PK and the team lost and the coach told her to work on her PKs next time so we wont lose.  Look, were just going to go round and round and round.  I personally believe this virus has been over played for obvious reasons, especially for the healthy among us.  I'm not trying to be cocky.  I was born deaf and my birth mother had some other plans for me and my adopted mother talked her out of it.  Because of that decision to keep me for 5 more months in her womb, you and I get to chat online.  Now that is a cool story and its true, unless my mom was mixing up my story with one of the other 8 kids she adopted.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> Are any of those medical experts among the 1300 who approved street protests for racial justice issues and denounced street protests of health orders?  One of the big issues now (and I fear is an issue that will long survive this COVID crisis) is that our experts have willfully provided misinformation (Dr. Fauci and the "masks are worthless" of March in order to preserve them for health care workers???  Who made Dr. Fauci a god who gets to decide to put average people at risk based on a statement he knew to be false when he made it?  How many people got sick who may not have had they or others been wearing a mask?  How many of them died?  We can't have it both ways.  Masks are worthless or Dr. Fauci's willful misstatements resulted in people DYING).  These same experts elected to get political about the transmission risk of a highly contagious virus based on what the group of people were discussing and now they are incentivized to spin data to reinforce a narrative they chained themselves to.  People don't trust them.  And it is not just soccer parent deniers (whatever that means).  Who here has a lower opinion of the CDC than they did 1 year ago?  I do.  Who here would have expected medical experts to take positions on protests during a pandemic based on the protests content?  Not me.
> 
> So now I want to see the studies.  Where is the data that says children in school are spreading the disease in a serious way?  And how is that lightly studied risk balanced against the known deleterious effects of distance learning?  Against the mental health effects of lockdowns and abnormal isolation?  On the consequences to people's financial security and the long term economic welfare of a country now adding trillions and trillions of dollars to its national debt?  Who pays for the medical care of the 40 million people who have lost their jobs?  What will the long term effect of that be on health care providers?
> 
> Orange County recently (and this may still be the case) prohibited sandcastle building at the beach due to COVID.  Really?  Racial justice protests are OK but no gatherings for the 4th of July by order of the governor??  George Floyd's funerals are fine but nobody else can bury their dead?  Protests are OK but not OK for a father to see his child born?  Or family to visit a dying person in a hospital?  Ok to shop at Target but not Best Buy?  The wild irrationality and too often political nature of these positions has undermined credibility of both public officials and private experts.  That's scary, has killed people and will kill more people.  Americans are not an ungovernable people.  But infantilizing, inconsistent nonsense is poor public policy, as is politicizing a public health issue.


I agree with the fact that there is no rhyme or reason with some of the limitations and/or mandates. However....

Again....the various levels of lock down has NOTHING to do with number of deaths.  It has to do with the rate of the spread of the illness.  Who is spreading the illness right now?  20 to 49 year olds.  If you don't diminish rate of the spread, you risk an overwhelming of the hospital system.  Take a look at Arizona and Texas who didn't decide to make changes until at 89% capacity.   For the last 3 weeks we have been increasing hospitalizations at least 27% to 36% per week (today was is 27% when compared to last Tuesday).  If we continue at that rate, we reach capacity (not considering surge capacity) at the end of August.  I am not sure the recent mandates will be enough to slow it down and we won't know for about another 14 to 21 days.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I agree with the fact that there is no rhyme or reason with some of the limitations and/or mandates. However....
> 
> Again....the various levels of lock down has NOTHING to do with number of deaths.  It has to do with the rate of the spread of the illness.  Who is spreading the illness right now?  20 to 49 year olds.  If you don't diminish rate of the spread, you risk an overwhelming of the hospital system.  Take a look at Arizona and Texas who didn't decide to make changes until at 89% capacity.   For the last 3 weeks we have been increasing hospitalizations at least 27% to 36% per week (today was is 27% when compared to last Tuesday).  If we continue at that rate, we reach capacity (not considering surge capacity) at the end of August.  I am not sure the recent mandates will be enough to slow it down and we won't know for about another 14 to 21 days.


Thank you, governor, for your daily update....now back to my bunker


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## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I was responding to your original post that said "if you look around the world it's increasingly looking like nothing works to contain it...you just have to burn through a certain amount and eventually it settles down.  I don't get the fear porn.  The worst (nationally, not regionally) really is behind us."  It appears what you are saying above does not match up with your original statement.  The worst is behind us?  So how does the 30% increase in hospitalizations per week indicate the worst is behind us?


The CFR continues to fall and is now below what we consider epidemic proportions. 

The hospitalization number is a bit off.  What's happening now is that everyone who goes into the hospital is being tested for COVID (our testing in many areas is now that good....they aren't doing that in Germany yet).  So if you are going into delivery and you come back with a positive test, you are put down as hospitalized with COVID.  That's not the number to look at.  The number to look at is ICU capacity.

I predicted several weeks ago that LA will be in a slow burn throughout the summer.  I'm was right about that.  We are at about the half way mark right now in LA is my guess.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I'm truly sorry.  My mother in law has diabetes and asthma.  She stays home and that's ok and she's ok with that. My sister in law does all the errands.  I posted an English paper my dd wrote and posted it on here about her friends sister hanging herself from a tree.  I also know of "pressure cooker suicide" that many teens did because some felt pressure to perform in our society and how one has to be a perfect student, top soccer player, stay out of trouble, get highest SAT, study, no social life because and coaches who screamed their asses off and blamed some GKs for the loss.  Or, the girl who missed her PK and the team lost and the coach told her to work on her PKs next time so we wont lose.  Look, were just going to go round and round and round.  I personally believe this virus has been over played for obvious reasons, especially for the healthy among us.  I'm not trying to be cocky.  I was born deaf and my birth mother had some other plans for me and my adopted mother talked her out of it.  Because of that decision to keep me for 5 more months in her womb, you and I get to chat online.  Now that is a cool story and its true, unless my mom was mixing up my story with one of the other 8 kids she adopted.


Wow...that was a vulnerable share and no one knows the challenges you have faced except you.  You are very tenacious just like my oldest who has suffered because of her early years and the arduous task of not fitting in and being labeled.  I tell her all of the time I am in awe of her and I stand in awe of you.  

Suicide among teens is a horrible problem  for the very reasons you stated but I am not sure COVID is causing the suicides among teenagers and I haven't done any research on it which is why I asked for the specific research related to COVID and teenagers.  I don't like the fact that people (not necessarily you) use it as justification for kids playing soccer.  I think that is a misuse of a very serious issue but I really don't know because I haven't researched it and people throw it around without any facts to support it.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Thank you, governor, for your daily update....now back to my bunker


My update is better than his.  LOL


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## PruritusAniFC (Jul 7, 2020)

timbuck said:


> All drills and no scrimmage (or any sort of SSG) makes for a bored soccer player.


......


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## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Wow...that was a vulnerable share and no one knows the challenges you have faced except you.  You are very tenacious just like my oldest who has suffered because of her early years and the arduous task of not fitting in and being labeled.  I tell her all of the time I am in awe of her and I stand in awe of you.
> 
> Suicide among teens is a horrible problem  for the very reasons you stated but* I am not sure COVID is causing the suicides *among teenagers and I haven't done any research on it which is why I asked for the specific research related to COVID and teenagers.  I don't like the fact that people (not necessarily you) use it as justification for kids playing soccer.  I think that is a misuse of a very serious issue but I really don't know because I haven't researched it and people throw it around without any facts to support it.


Suicide been here for a long time.  Let's not forget Judas.  The thing that has Drs puzzled is so many teens are killing themselves.  More now so i'm thinking Corona just adds another layer that is impossible to peal and they OD on heroin, booze or pain pills they steal from their mom or dad.  Once someone has no purpose on earth ((that's what some Drs think)) they kill themselves.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The CFR continues to fall and is now below what we consider epidemic proportions.
> 
> The hospitalization number is a bit off.  What's happening now is that everyone who goes into the hospital is being tested for COVID (our testing in many areas is now that good....they aren't doing that in Germany yet).  So if you are going into delivery and you come back with a positive test, you are put down as hospitalized with COVID.  That's not the number to look at.  The number to look at is ICU capacity.
> 
> I predicted several weeks ago that LA will be in a slow burn throughout the summer.  I'm was right about that.  We are at about the half way mark right now in LA is my guess.


It doesn't matter if they are in the hospital for a hang nail, the reality is they are in a hospital bed and hospitalizations are going up.  Hospitalizations are one of the key numbers to look at because 1. It has the least amount of variables that can distort the picture and 2. Hospitalizations is what drives decisions (i.e. various lock down levels to diminish over capacity).  When I calculate reaching capacity, I do not even consider people in the hospital without COVID which would make the situation worse.  If you have 6,034 hosptial beds available, and you are increasing the number of beds filled by 27% per week (this is approximately the % increase we have been running per week), you reach 6,000 people in a hospital bed the last week in August that are confirm or suspected without consideration of people that are in the hospital for any other illness.

Tuesday July 7, 2020Tuesday June 30, 2020Week ChangeConfirmedSuspectedTotal People in a Hospital Bed ConfirmedSuspectedTotal# Change% ChangeHospitalizations659​180​839​542​120​662​177​27%​ICU224​26​250​192​20​212​38​18%​


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## dad4 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> p.s. it's a myth that everyone in Europe wears a mask.  Their mask usage is actually about on par as ours and some of the lightest hit countries don't require them.  Germany itself is a mish mosh of mask usage and no mask usage.  They certainly help, but it's becoming evident the surgical masks, bandanas and most cloth masks do very little (like stopping mosquistos with a chain link fence) and if we wanted a solid mask program the government should be handing out at least high quality cloth masks or better grade.  From the early studies, particuarly in Germany, they might help about 40%.  Helpful, not great.


The Jena study was pretty clear that masks slowed the spread considerably.  

A 40% reduction in Rt is huge.   The current surge would not exist at all if our Rt were 40% lower.


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## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> It doesn't matter if they are in the hospital for a hang nail, the reality is they are in a hospital bed and hospitalizations are going up.  Hospitalizations are one of the key numbers to look at because 1. It has the least amount of variables that can distort the picture and 2. Hospitalizations is what drives decisions (i.e. various lock down levels to diminish over capacity).  When I calculate reaching capacity, I do not even consider people in the hospital without COVID which would make the situation worse.  If you have 6,034 hosptial beds available, and you are increasing the number of beds filled by 27% per week (this is approximately the % increase we have been running per week), you reach 6,000 people in a hospital bed the last week in August that are confirm or suspected without consideration of people that are in the hospital for any other illness.
> 
> Tuesday July 7, 2020Tuesday June 30, 2020Week ChangeConfirmedSuspectedTotal People in a Hospital BedConfirmedSuspectedTotal# Change% ChangeHospitalizations659​180​839​542​120​662​177​27%​ICU224​26​250​192​20​212​38​18%​


Here's an La County fun fact.  La County just completed a census of available hospital beds.  It's census showed fewer hospital beds in use than the equivalent time in 2019.  Part of that is hospitals expanded beds in anticipation of COVID.  Another is that people are deferring some procedures out of fear of catching COVID (one of my nurse friends just got laid off of her lypo job for example).  But under that metric, your own figures aren't useful

You are assuming exponential growth that goes on forever.  Even Sweden didn't show that.  And LA isn't Sweden...many businesses are still shut, there's a mask requirement, kids aren't playing soccer (at least not legally).  All the models that predicted the worst were completely wrong....and SoCal and NorCal have had similar patterns and similar shutdown with the same governor, yet there are different results.  What's to account for that?  Well the waves are rigid...they are mathematically....you just have to go through a certain amount and there's very very little anyone can do about it.


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## watfly (Jul 7, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Thank you, governor, for your daily update....now back to my bunker


Wait...I've been out of state for 5 days.  Newsom banned singing in church while I was gone? WTF, I'm agnostic and I think its completely absurd.


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## Edouble (Jul 7, 2020)

Came here for recent info on the topic, ended up reading about teen suicide.... k den


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## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Here's an La County fun fact.  La County just completed a census of available hospital beds.  It's census showed fewer hospital beds in use than the equivalent time in 2019.  Part of that is hospitals expanded beds in anticipation of COVID.  Another is that people are deferring some procedures out of fear of catching COVID* (one of my nurse friends just got laid off of her lypo job for example).*  But under that metric, your own figures aren't useful
> 
> You are assuming exponential growth that goes on forever.  Even Sweden didn't show that.  And LA isn't Sweden...many businesses are still shut, there's a mask requirement, kids aren't playing soccer (at least not legally).  All the models that predicted the worst were completely wrong....and SoCal and NorCal have had similar patterns and similar shutdown with the same governor, yet there are different results.  What's to account for that?  Well the waves are rigid...they are mathematically....you just have to go through a certain amount and there's very very little anyone can do about it.


My friends a nurse.  She told me she has a nurse friend ((go figure)) that just got laid off too.  I think it was dental cosmetics field but it wasnt the ER that's for sure.  She figures it better to stay home with her kids and teach them school.  Her and her husband are moving to Tennessee.  No joke!!! She gets $4100 a month and stays safe.  She said theirs a job opening in LA at one of the hospitals but she would only make $1200 more a month and risk catching the disease and seeing all that suffering was not worth it.  All these front line folks are the big risk takers imo.  The true heros.


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## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

dad4 said:


> The Jena study was pretty clear that masks slowed the spread considerably.
> 
> A 40% reduction in Rt is huge.   The current surge would not exist at all if our Rt were 40% lower.


That's in ideal conditions and 40% is useful, but it's really not great, particularly given we aren't using the right masks, and when we do there are lots of noses peaking out or people taking it off to have a conversation.

Our biggest problem in the US is private gatherings.  Because people don't go to restaurants or out, but still want to socialize, not to mention all the deferred weddings, wakes and worship services, or pre-protest parties, or graduation parties, or the teens we mentioned previously, they are gathering at homes.  People aren't wearing masks at these private gatherings.  Otherwise LA has had a mask order in place how long now?  Yet, per keepermom, the situation is still out of control?  Simple....the main driver is private gatherings.

Swinging back to soccer it means that restrictions on youth sports will be counter productive.  That means the only thing that's going to happen is they'll go underground, without any regulations or restrictions.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 7, 2020)

watfly said:


> Wait...I've been out of state for 5 days.  Newsom banned singing in church while I was gone? WTF, I'm agnostic and I think its completely absurd.


Just do what I did growing up... mouth the words and hope the hour is up soon.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Here's an La County fun fact.  La County just completed a census of available hospital beds.  It's census showed fewer hospital beds in use than the equivalent time in 2019.  Part of that is hospitals expanded beds in anticipation of COVID.  Another is that people are deferring some procedures out of fear of catching COVID (one of my nurse friends just got laid off of her lypo job for example).  But under that metric, your own figures aren't useful
> 
> You are assuming exponential growth that goes on forever.  Even Sweden didn't show that.  And LA isn't Sweden...many businesses are still shut, there's a mask requirement, kids aren't playing soccer (at least not legally).  All the models that predicted the worst were completely wrong....and SoCal and NorCal have had similar patterns and similar shutdown with the same governor, yet there are different results.  What's to account for that?  Well the waves are rigid...they are mathematically....you just have to go through a certain amount and there's very very little anyone can do about it.


COVID has already shown to not operate in flows because it isn't like the flu where it dies off in the summer.  I think Texas and Arizona has already proved that along with Mexico.  3 weeks at 30% or above weekly increase is an indicator that if there is no change in the R factor, than we will have a problem.  I said that if we continued at the rate we were, you would see various levels of shut down be put back in place.  The only way at this point to lower the R factor, is to put various levels of shut down in place.  

SoCal and NorCal does not have similar patterns at all!!!  Look at the graphs on the State website.  Nor Cal just opened up hair salons last week and dining opened later than us as well.

This doesn't look like "slow burn" in LA.  They are at 2004 confirmed hospitalizations and 666 suspected right now.


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## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

dad4 said:


> The Jena study was pretty clear that masks slowed the spread considerably.
> 
> A 40% reduction in Rt is huge.   The current surge would not exist at all if our Rt were 40% lower.


BTW, here's the counter that shows the limited utility of masks: Japan.  Japan has a long history of universal mask wearing.  Unlike our society, they aren't removing them for discussions or wearing them under their nose.  They aren't using bandanas.  Everyone said in June that Japan shows what universal mask wearing can do.  But Japan is undergoing a second mini wave (because their first wasn't very much, and their wave like ours seems to be taking place where previously did not have outbreaks leading credence to the waves are rigid and you just have to go through them theory).  If masks were the magic bullet, the numbers shouldn't be rising in Japan.  But it's getting warm there and people are going indoors and like us aren't always wearing their masks when they around with a friend inside.  So what happens, they get a little mini wave which shouldn't be possible if masks were such a magic bullet. 

Don't get me wrong.  I think masks do mitigate things.  If I were emperor I would put in place a mask program so every American had a mask better than a surgical math, cloth masks, or bandana.  But then I probably wouldn't have done premature lockdowns or sent COVID positive patients back into nursing homes, and I'd probably hard shut the southern border.  Beyond that nothing much has made a material impact.


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## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> The only way at this point to lower the R factor, is to put various levels of shut down in place.


What you've basically said is that nothing we can do will lower the R factor at this point.  We agree on something at least.

The reason why is because restaurants aren't the primary driver of this thing right now.  It's the illicit gatherings taking place (bars are also a factor...I would have shut the bars too if I were the governor, as well as indoor gyms, but I would have let distanced soccer go on for now).  The reason you can't put the genii back in the bottle is because of the protests....the protests basically convinced a lot of young people they should just go out and have at it.  Nothing the governor can do at this point is going to put that genii back in the bottle, so he's left with got to do something let's do stupid things like keep schools partially closed or ban youth sports.  Short of enacting a police state where the police raid and shut down any gatherings of people greater than 2, there's not a whole lot that can be done.  If you don't allow club soccer, it's just going to go underground.

The other major driver is the southern border.  The zip codes along the Mexican border have had a substantial amount of cases more than those outside of it.  Considering the D hostility towards shutting the border, and at this point that the people crossing the border are largely US citizens or people with work permission, there's not much to be done there either.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Just do what I did growing up... mouth the words and hope the hour is up soon.


I;m just trying to have a little fun under these intense circumstances were all under so please dont hate me if your a Mormon. I was and i was forced to go.  They had this song when you brought a friend.  I took a few pals to the Laguna location and no one would come back with me.  By the time I was 15, my sweet mother said the best things ever, "Your old enough now if you dont want to go you dont have to go.  However, you will miss Bobs Big Boy lunch after."  I love the combo with hot fudge cake. So I went once a month until my mom finally was the last one to stop going.  I'm sorry, but no coke and all day church on Sundays was too much.  The people seemed nice. I was scared to death that I would have to go knock on doors for two years.  With my speech problems that was going to be one hell of a adventure I was not willing to endure for Mr Smith and his pal Brigham.  I could sing without stutterring so I think it would have been something like this


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Here's an La County fun fact.  La County just completed a census of available hospital beds.  It's census showed fewer hospital beds in use than the equivalent time in 2019.  Part of that is hospitals expanded beds in anticipation of COVID.  Another is that people are deferring some procedures out of fear of catching COVID (one of my nurse friends just got laid off of her lypo job for example).  But under that metric, your own figures aren't useful
> 
> You are assuming exponential growth that goes on forever.  Even Sweden didn't show that.  And LA isn't Sweden...many businesses are still shut, there's a mask requirement, kids aren't playing soccer (at least not legally).  All the models that predicted the worst were completely wrong....and SoCal and NorCal have had similar patterns and similar shutdown with the same governor, yet there are different results.  What's to account for that?  Well the waves are rigid...they are mathematically....you just have to go through a certain amount and there's very very little anyone can do about it.


Notice the top 5 counties for hospitalizations are all Southern Cal.  Also note, no flows going on and only up up up after the impact from opening so fast started.


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> What you've basically said is that nothing we can do will lower the R factor at this point.  We agree on something at least.
> 
> The reason why is because restaurants aren't the primary driver of this thing right now.  It's the illicit gatherings taking place (bars are also a factor...I would have shut the bars too if I were the governor, as well as indoor gyms, but I would have let distanced soccer go on for now).  The reason you can't put the genii back in the bottle is because of the protests....the protests basically convinced a lot of young people they should just go out and have at it.  Nothing the governor can do at this point is going to put that genii back in the bottle, so he's left with got to do something let's do stupid things like keep schools partially closed or ban youth sports.  Short of enacting a police state where the police raid and shut down any gatherings of people greater than 2, there's not a whole lot that can be done.  If you don't allow club soccer, it's just going to go underground.
> 
> The other major driver is the southern border.  The zip codes along the Mexican border have had a substantial amount of cases more than those outside of it.  Considering the D hostility towards shutting the border, and at this point that the people crossing the border are largely US citizens or people with work permission, there's not much to be done there either.


No I didn't say that.  I said we have to do something to lower the R factor.  The problem is, we do not contact trace so we have no idea what is contributing to the significant increases so we could isolate those activities.  It could be protests, it could be bars open, it could be people not wearing masks, it could be social gatherings, it could be socializing at home etc.  We have no data showing what is causing it and they are shooting in the dark so to speak and waiting to see if there is a change.  Youth sports is easy for them to say no to with no logical reasoning.  I think it is that simple.  

There is no evidence patients from Imperial County have been transported to OC.   

I don't believe the answer is open everything up and do nothing until we are at 90% capacity like Arizona and Texas such that they will have to shut down soon.  I would rather have piece meal shut downs than complete shut down again.  That is better for the economy.


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## watfly (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> COVID has already shown to not operate in flows because it isn't like the flu where it dies off in the summer.  I think Texas and Arizona has already proved that along with Mexico.  3 weeks at 30% or above weekly increase is an indicator that if there is no change in the R factor, than we will have a problem.  I said that if we continued at the rate we were, you would see various levels of shut down be put back in place.  The only way at this point to lower the R factor, is to put various levels of shut down in place.
> 
> SoCal and NorCal does not have similar patterns at all!!!  Look at the graphs on the State website.  Nor Cal just opened up hair salons last week and dining opened later than us as well.
> 
> ...


That's funny because the graph is already off by around 500 beds as of today based on their estimate of most likely value (25% error) and is completely out of the red, which is the wide latitude they've given themselves in their prediction (whoever they are?).


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## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

watfly said:


> That's funny because the graph is already off by around 500 beds as of today based on their estimate of most likely value (25% error) and is completely out of the red, which is the wide latitude they've given themselves in their prediction (whoever they are?).


They are at 2,670 today (confirmed and suspected...they include both because the reality is they are in a hospital bed and most turn out to be confirmed).  They are right where they predicted they would be.  This chart was from LA Health.


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## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> No I didn't say that.  I said we have to do something to lower the R factor.  The problem is, we do not contact trace so we have no idea what is contributing to the significant increases so we could isolate those activities.  It could be protests, it could be bars open, it could be people not wearing masks, it could be social gatherings, it could be socializing at home etc.  We have no data showing what is causing it and they are shooting in the dark so to speak and waiting to see if there is a change.  Youth sports is easy for them to say no to with no logical reasoning.  I think it is that simple.
> 
> There is no evidence patients from Imperial County have been transported to OC.
> 
> I don't believe the answer is open everything up and do nothing until we are at 90% capacity like Arizona and Texas such that they will have to shut down soon.  I would rather have piece meal shut downs than complete shut down again.  That is better for the economy.



Well, re the border some people aren't stopping at imperial or San Diego county but coming up to LA.  We don't know what percentage it is but it isn't insignificant.  The highest confirmed cases over the weekend in San Diego were in the zip codes right along the Mexican border.  Look at the numbers out of Yuma Arizona as well.  It's not the only factor, but we know by this point it is definitely one of them.

I agree with you that the state should be doing more contact tracing to determine this.  But instead we have what contact tracers we do have in the US being given stupid orders like don't ask people if they've attended protests.  It's exactly this which contact tracing is useful for: where are the problem areas.  It's not useful for determining apersons contacts and then if someone was riding on a subway putting 1000s of people into qurantine.  We actually see eye to eye on this and this is actually how we should be constructing our contact tracing.  Instead the left has wanted to immitate South Korea (which is impossible because Americans don't even return their phone call) and the right has said no.  It's why California's contact tracing (in a blue state run by almost all blue politicians) is a disaster just as much as Texas'.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Notice the top 5 counties for hospitalizations are all Southern Cal.  Also note, no flows going on and only up up up after the impact from opening so fast started.
> View attachment 8067


I looked at that char online.  When you hover over the LA “bar” next to the counties it breaks it down:

*LA County:*
Positive Covid Patients - 2,004
Suspected Covid Patients - 666
ICU Positive Covid Patients - 529
ICU Suspected Covid Patients - 103
*ICU Available beds - 1,334

Orange CO*
Positive Covid Patients - 659
Suspected Covid Patients - 180
ICU Positive Covid Patients - 224
ICU Suspected Covid Patients - 26
*ICU Available beds - 406

All counties as a whole*:
ICU positive patients grew by 64 over the past 6 days. Which is a slowing/plateau from the prior 6 days (311).  I also noted how ICU bed availability is virtually flat from where it was on 5/2 (3922) to where it is on 7/6 (3,925).

I get and appreciate the concerns but these numbers don’t support what I’m hearing in the media.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Well, re the border some people aren't stopping at imperial or San Diego county but coming up to LA.  We don't know what percentage it is but it isn't insignificant.  The highest confirmed cases over the weekend in San Diego were in the zip codes right along the Mexican border.  Look at the numbers out of Yuma Arizona as well.  It's not the only factor, but we know by this point it is definitely one of them.
> 
> I agree with you that the state should be doing more contact tracing to determine this.  But instead we have what contact tracers we do have in the US being given stupid orders like don't ask people if they've attended protests.  It's exactly this which contact tracing is useful for: where are the problem areas.  It's not useful for determining apersons contacts and then if someone was riding on a subway putting 1000s of people into qurantine.  We actually see eye to eye on this and this is actually how we should be constructing our contact tracing.  Instead the left has wanted to immitate South Korea (which is impossible because Americans don't even return their phone call) and the right has said no.  It's why California's contact tracing (in a blue state run by almost all blue politicians) is a disaster just as much as Texas'.


I agree with almost everything you said.  I do believe the boarder plays a role but I have seen no evidence that it is "significant" to our numbers or that it plays a role in OC at all.  I will say one thing political....Republicans and Democrats alike are to blame for us not being prepared in any way shape or form which we should have been somewhat prepared given the biological weapon threat, and for States not having proper somewhat updated systems of any kind.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> I looked at that char online.  When you hover over the LA “bar” next to the counties it breaks it down:
> 
> *LA County:*
> Positive Covid Patients - 2,004
> ...


The hospitals have been mandated to increase ICU beds over the last week.  Why are you using 6 days to calculate a weekly average?  Why do you think they closed bars?  Why do you think they closed the beaches for the fourth of July weekend?  I said a couple of weeks ago as you know, if the weekly increases keep occurring, they will start doing something.  What has been said for the State is that we have had 50% increase in hospitalizations over the last 2 weeks.  If you listened to Newsom yesterday, he said something about a decrease over the last few days but that information isn't accurate because over the weekend they only have 97% of hospitals reporting so of course the numbers are distorted.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> The hospitals have been mandated to increase ICU beds over the last week.  Why are you using 6 days to calculate a weekly average?  Why do you think they closed bars?  Why do you think they closed the beaches for the fourth of July weekend?  I said a couple of weeks ago as you know, if the weekly increases keep occurring, they will start doing something.  What has been said for the State is that we have had 50% increase in hospitalizations over the last 2 weeks.  If you listened to Newsom yesterday, he said something about a decrease over the last few days but that information isn't accurate because over the weekend they only have 97% of hospitals reporting so of course the numbers are distorted.


Again, hospitalizations isn't a good number.  If you are delivering, they run a COVID test. You come back positive, you are in a bed, you are counted as COVID hospitalized even if you aren't showing symptoms.  The baby comes down with it, the baby is counted as COVID hospitalized too.  My counsin had a kidney stone, was COVID tested, asymptomatic yet is a COVID hospitalized case (we think he got it at a protest or a preprotest party).  The number is about as useful as total cases.  The ICU numbers are a much better proxy.  It's also a better indication of whether the cases are serious or not.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> The hospitals have been mandated to increase ICU beds over the last week.  Why are you using 6 days to calculate a weekly average?  Why do you think they closed bars?  Why do you think they closed the beaches for the fourth of July weekend?  I said a couple of weeks ago as you know, if the weekly increases keep occurring, they will start doing something.  What has been said for the State is that we have had 50% increase in hospitalizations over the last 2 weeks.  If you listened to Newsom yesterday, he said something about a decrease over the last few days but that information isn't accurate because over the weekend they only have 97% of hospitals reporting so of course the numbers are distorte
> 
> 
> Kicker4Life said:
> ...


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> The hospitals have been mandated to increase ICU beds over the last week.  Why are you using 6 days to calculate a weekly average?  Why do you think they closed bars?  Why do you think they closed the beaches for the fourth of July weekend?  I said a couple of weeks ago as you know, if the weekly increases keep occurring, they will start doing something.  What has been said for the State is that we have had 50% increase in hospitalizations over the last 2 weeks.  If you listened to Newsom yesterday, he said something about a decrease over the last few days but that information isn't accurate because over the weekend they only have 97% of hospitals reporting so of course the numbers are distorted.


It’s not an average.  It is an observation. I’m not debunking your concerns just the media narrative cause the stats don’t match. 


Newsome - ask him why his Winery didn’t have to closewhen everyone else did.  Ask him why he won’t touch the coveted $110B
What I do see are “dramatic” increases in cases and ICU occupancy 12 to 14 days after the massive protests in LA.  But those where will “allowed”????


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Again, hospitalizations isn't a good number.  If you are delivering, they run a COVID test. You come back positive, you are in a bed, you are counted as COVID hospitalized even if you aren't showing symptoms.  The baby comes down with it, the baby is counted as COVID hospitalized too.  My counsin had a kidney stone, was COVID tested, asymptomatic yet is a COVID hospitalized case (we think he got it at a protest or a preprotest party).  The number is about as useful as total cases.  The ICU numbers are a much better proxy.  It's also a better indication of whether the cases are serious or not.


I have already explained it is about the number of people in a hospital bed.  Whether you are tested positive for COVID or not there are a limited number of hospital beds period.  So regardless of whether these people are in a hospital bed for COVID or not, they are still in a hospital bed and if all of the people aren't positive for COVID, we still are running an increase in hospitalizations of 30% per week.  That is exactly why all of the data analysis experts use hospitalizations and ICU hospitalizations as key indicators.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I have already explained it is about the number of people in a hospital bed.  Whether you are tested positive for COVID or not there are a limited number of hospital beds period.  So regardless of whether these people are in a hospital bed for COVID or not, they are still in a hospital bed and if all of the people aren't positive for COVID, we still are running an increase in hospitalizations of 30% per week.  That is exactly why all of the data analysis experts use hospitalizations and ICU hospitalizations as key indicators.


My cousin, though, isn't an increased hospitalization.  He probably would have had the kidney stone regardless of whether there's an epidemic now or not, and if beds are a measure we are doing better than the same time period in 2019 without an epidemic (because of the lower elective procedures).  The only reason you believe it is a problem is because you believe the model showing exponential growth.  The models, though, have been repeatedly shown to be wrong and are only guesses not really backed up by data, just the assumption that what's happening now will go on forever.  That's where I'm critical of the so-called experts.  It could be, but maybe not.  Everyone is just guessing.  If the other patterns hold, my guess is we are in the middle of it.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I have already explained it is about the number of people in a hospital bed.  Whether you are tested positive for COVID or not there are a limited number of hospital beds period.  So regardless of whether these people are in a hospital bed for COVID or not, they are still in a hospital bed and if all of the people aren't positive for COVID, we still are running an increase in hospitalizations of 30% per week.  That is exactly why all of the data analysis experts use hospitalizations and ICU hospitalizations as key indicators.


By the way, OC uses a 3 day average in hospitalizations which I don't use because like I said, weekend numbers aren't complete.  I do calculations on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays if they have 100% hospitals reporting.


----------



## watfly (Jul 7, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> I looked at that char online.  When you hover over the LA “bar” next to the counties it breaks it down:
> 
> *LA County:*
> Positive Covid Patients - 2,004
> ...


There is no significant evidence to suggest that SoCal will run out of ICU beds.

A note on the border, my buddy who is the medical director/chief of staff for very large healthcare organization, indicated that the border patients were mostly impacting the Chula Vista and Imperial Valley hospitals.  I read an article a week or so ago that mentioned some of those Imperial Valley patients are rolling over to San Diego and Orange County.  IDK why they'd come to the OC, but the article mentioned 24 from IV in OC ICU beds (can't find the article so I'm only stating that as an observation).


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> My cousin, though, isn't an increased hospitalization.  He probably would have had the kidney stone regardless of whether there's an epidemic now or not, and if beds are a measure we are doing better than the same time period in 2019 without an epidemic (because of the lower elective procedures).  The only reason you believe it is a problem is because you believe the model showing exponential growth.  The models, though, have been repeatedly shown to be wrong and are only guesses not really backed up by data, just the assumption that what's happening now will go on forever.  That's where I'm critical of the so-called experts.  It could be, but maybe not.  Everyone is just guessing.  If the other patterns hold, my guess is we are in the middle of it.


The models that have been wrong were early on when historical data was not available or not complete enough to be useful.  Apparently the Counties think it is a problem too considering the fact they started closing places again at the end of last week like I predicted would happen 2 weeks ago if we kept running increases.  I also checked on the increases with an in charge nurse at a large hospital in OC.  She confirmed what I calculated.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

watfly said:


> There is no significant evidence to suggest that SoCal will run out of ICU beds.
> 
> A note on the border, my buddy who is the medical director/chief of staff for very large healthcare organization, indicated that the border patients were mostly impacting the Chula Vista and Imperial Valley hospitals.  I read an article a week or so ago that mentioned some of those Imperial Valley patients are rolling over to San Diego and Orange County.  IDK why they'd come to the OC, but the article mentioned 24 from IV in OC ICU beds (can't find the article so I'm only stating that as an observation).


Interesting.  I read some articles too but there didn't appear to be any evidence of numbers etc.  Transparency from our Government would be nice.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> The models that have been wrong were early on when historical data was not available or not complete enough to be useful.  Apparently the Counties think it is a problem too considering the fact they started closing places again at the end of last week like I predicted would happen 2 weeks ago if we kept running increases.  I also checked on the increases with an in charge nurse at a large hospital in OC.  She confirmed what I calculated.


Well we know this because of 1 location: Sweden.  Sweden has been much criticized for doing nothing to slow the spread (it's not really true...they did social distance, but didn't have a hard lock down).  But in the past couple weeks both cases and deaths have fallen despite a new emphasis on the government on testing.  The other major revision was revising their nursing home protocols.  It shouldn't have happened under the models, but it did, which has the so-called experts baffled.  The other hard hit European countries also aren't at herd immunity but have opened faster than we have (my son's little UK GK pen pal was out of school maybe a month and just wrapped up).

I agreed with you on the reclosing.  It's just my opinion they are stupid and won't do very much, because I suspect most of the transmission is taking place at private homes (my neighbors had a kegger 2 weekends ago a big BBQ over the 4th...young 20 somethings).


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

I hope I am wrong and I hope we all of a sudden see a steep decline in hospitalizations.  That would be great.   My point has always been, the lock downs aren't about preventing anyone from dying...it started because of capacity concerns and various levels of shut down continue because of capacity concerns.  I hope the recent mandates changes the picture such that our kids will be allowed to play soccer normally in the fall some time.  We won't know that for another 14 to 21 days.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Well we know this because of 1 location: Sweden.  Sweden has been much criticized for doing nothing to slow the spread (it's not really true...they did social distance, but didn't have a hard lock down).  But in the past couple weeks both cases and deaths have fallen despite a new emphasis on the government on testing.  The other major revision was revising their nursing home protocols.  It shouldn't have happened under the models, but it did, which has the so-called experts baffled.  The other hard hit European countries also aren't at herd immunity but have opened faster than we have (my son's little UK GK pen pal was out of school maybe a month and just wrapped up).
> 
> I agreed with you on the reclosing.  It's just my opinion they are stupid and won't do very much, because I suspect most of the transmission is taking place at private homes (my neighbors had a kegger 2 weekends ago a big BBQ over the 4th...young 20 somethings).


Yeah I saw parties on FB.  Ugh


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I hope I am wrong and I hope we all of a sudden see a steep decline in hospitalizations.  That would be great.   My point has always been, the lock downs aren't about preventing anyone from dying...it started because of capacity concerns and various levels of shut down continue because of capacity concerns.  I hope the recent mandates changes the picture such that our kids will be allowed to play soccer normally in the fall some time.  We won't know that for another 14 to 21 days.


I don't think we'll see a steep decline.  The LA pattern will likely show a peak sometime between now and 3 weeks out followed by a very slow decline).  That's based just on trig and the curves and what ours looks like in relation to the others, on the assumption it's mathematically rigid, and the decline in social distancing which will slow that process down.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I don't think we'll see a steep decline.  The LA pattern will likely show a peak sometime between now and 3 weeks out followed by a very slow decline).  That's based just on trig and the curves and what ours looks like in relation to the others, on the assumption it's mathematically rigid, and the decline in social distancing which will slow that process down.


It is so hard to look at any patterns because the protests and opening up occurred simultaneously.  Yeah I do not see any steep decline coming but the slow decline would be nice but doubtful.  We shall see.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Well we know this because of 1 location: Sweden.  Sweden has been much criticized for doing nothing to slow the spread (it's not really true...they did social distance, but didn't have a hard lock down).  But in the past couple weeks both cases and deaths have fallen despite a new emphasis on the government on testing.  The other major revision was revising their nursing home protocols.  It shouldn't have happened under the models, but it did, which has the so-called experts baffled.  The other hard hit European countries also aren't at herd immunity but have opened faster than we have (my son's little UK GK pen pal was out of school maybe a month and just wrapped up).
> 
> I agreed with you on the reclosing.  It's just my opinion they are stupid and won't do very much, because I suspect most of the transmission is taking place at private homes (my neighbors had a kegger 2 weekends ago a big BBQ over the 4th...young 20 somethings).


Oddly enough, this came up today.  New York times reported it too but I didn't want to pay to read it.  https://www.seattletimes.com/business/sweden-has-become-the-worlds-cautionary-tale/


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Well we know this because of 1 location: Sweden.  Sweden has been much criticized for doing nothing to slow the spread (it's not really true...they did social distance, but didn't have a hard lock down).  But in the past couple weeks both cases and deaths have fallen despite a new emphasis on the government on testing.  The other major revision was revising their nursing home protocols.  It shouldn't have happened under the models, but it did, which has the so-called experts baffled.  The other hard hit European countries also aren't at herd immunity but have opened faster than we have (my son's little UK GK pen pal was out of school maybe a month and just wrapped up).
> 
> I agreed with you on the reclosing.  It's just my opinion they are stupid and won't do very much, because I suspect most of the transmission is taking place at private homes (my neighbors had a kegger 2 weekends ago a big BBQ over the 4th...young 20 somethings).











						Sweden's Covid Experiment is Now a Certified Failure
					

Open Air Failure Sweden captured international attention for its decision to buck the trend on mandated shut-ins.  The results are now in as Sweden Has Become




					www.thestreet.com


----------



## dad4 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> BTW, here's the counter that shows the limited utility of masks: Japan.  Japan has a long history of universal mask wearing.  Unlike our society, they aren't removing them for discussions or wearing them under their nose.  They aren't using bandanas.  Everyone said in June that Japan shows what universal mask wearing can do.  But Japan is undergoing a second mini wave (because their first wasn't very much, and their wave like ours seems to be taking place where previously did not have outbreaks leading credence to the waves are rigid and you just have to go through them theory).  If masks were the magic bullet, the numbers shouldn't be rising in Japan.  But it's getting warm there and people are going indoors and like us aren't always wearing their masks when they around with a friend inside.  So what happens, they get a little mini wave which shouldn't be possible if masks were such a magic bullet.
> 
> Don't get me wrong.  I think masks do mitigate things.  If I were emperor I would put in place a mask program so every American had a mask better than a surgical math, cloth masks, or bandana.  But then I probably wouldn't have done premature lockdowns or sent COVID positive patients back into nursing homes, and I'd probably hard shut the southern border.  Beyond that nothing much has made a material impact.


Japan has had fewer infections in 6 months than Florida has had in 2 days.  

The “mini wave” in Japan is very, very, small.  You’re right that masks are not the only thing we need.  But they sure look like a decent sized step in the right direction.


----------



## Lionel Hutz (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The CFR continues to fall and is now below what we consider epidemic proportions.


Do you have a link to a study or report that shows this -- genuinely would be interested to read up on something that claims what CFR defines an epidemic and where the CFR is currently falling.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Oddly enough, this came up today.  New York times reported it too but I didn't want to pay to read it.  https://www.seattletimes.com/business/sweden-has-become-the-worlds-cautionary-tale/


Well, a lot of the reporting was before Sweden took a turn for the better.  I agree they made a mistake, but the Swedish example hows even if you don't lock down, the initial wave does eventually burn out.


----------



## espola (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Well, a lot of the reporting was before Sweden took a turn for the better.  I agree they made a mistake, but the Swedish example hows even if you don't lock down, the initial wave does eventually burn out.


Nonsense.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

espola said:


> Nonsense.


Nice rebuttal.  Added a lot.  Cool.


----------



## espola (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Nice rebuttal.  Added a lot.  Cool.


I could have said that your body of work on this topic makes you look like you are an advocate for a certain point of view no matter what the facts are, but I didn't want to insult your integrity.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Lionel Hutz said:


> Do you have a link to a study or report that shows this -- genuinely would be interested to read up on something that claims what CFR defines an epidemic and where the CFR is currently falling.


The CFR is the case fatality rate (that's not the IFR which is how deadly the thing is).  The IFR is a fixed number.  The CFR declines the less deadly the thing is.  It's less deadly because it's hitting younger people and other states haven't replicated the disastrous policy of the northeast of putting nursing home residents and workers that test positive back in nursing homes.  It's also declined because we are doing a lot more testing and catching some of those asymptomatic cases.

I'll give you a cite (because I'm lazy and busy and it's the first one I've found), that even while acknowledging what I'm saying (the CFR is falling) makes the opposite case and says things are still bad. It relies on the fact that deaths are a lagging indicator but it doesn't know things will get worse.  I suspect they will in the sunbelt, but not significantly, because almost half of all deaths in the north east were from care facilities and we are doing better in patrolling that (at a minimum by not sending COVID positive patients back or allowing workers that test positive to work there).  So both "sides" will ultimately claim victory: the antipanic group by saying it wasn't as bad as New York, the panic group by saying you see there was a bump.









						A Lower Death Rate Doesn’t Make the U.S. Covid Surge OK
					

Fatalities still stand to rise, and many survivors will suffer lasting health problems.




					www.bloomberg.com


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Sorry...I laughed when I read your post because it is sooooo over dramatic.  I adopted my oldest daughter from an orphanage when she was 4.5 years old and she suffers from developmental trauma and severe depression moderate recurrent.  In all of my research over the years related to Trauma, never once did I read trauma caused by not being able to play a sport.  I did read about Trauma caused by social isolation but the reality is, social media has helped alleviate that issue.    Also the kids can meet in a park socially distanced, can go for a walk socially distanced, and meet at Starbucks socially distanced.  My daughter is pretty tenacious and has found many alternatives.     Does this suck for them?  Absolutely!  Trauma from it?  Highly unlikely.
> 
> What I did read is trauma caused by themselves ending up in the hospital, a parent or other family member ending up in the hospital or dying, or the rest of the obvious abuse and the like.  Like GKMOM said, they have found alternatives.  This is a great opportunity to teach children coping skills and how to look for solutions instead of at the problem.


How about the trauma the Trump victory caused you?
Does that count?


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

espola said:


> I could have said that your body of work on this topic makes you look like you are an advocate for a certain point of view no matter what the facts are, but I didn't want to insult your integrity.


Well, isn't Fauci?  Trump?  Cuomo?  Keepermom?

I've been pretty consistent on this.  Not the flu but I do think we are overreacting and in an irrational panic.  If I were emperor I wouldn't shut down school or youth sports at least for the fall (it's not where the transmission is).  Wouldn't have given the protests a free pass, don't like the large scale gatherings going on in private homes either, didn't think an indoor Trump rally was a good idea either.  I would have done a mask program early on (said Fauci was full of s--- from the beginning) and would have mobilized resources to produce masks that might actually help (not bandanas and stupid surgical masks).  I wouldn't have locked down the South when they did (would have waited several weeks), I would have locked down New York, and though the Constitution doesn't allow it if I were emperor I probably would have shut travel from NY if I were emperor as well as the southern border to even US citizens.  I wouldn't have sent sick people back into nursing homes.  And no, that would have been without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.  

Beyond that there's not much that governments can do.  Some got lucky in their timing and some didn't.  This is going to happen, unfortunately, and there's not a whole lot we can do to control it.  I know that's uncomfortable in our "we must do something" society but there's really not a whole to be done.  Governments, left and right, democratic and authoritarian, have failed around the world at controlling the thing.


----------



## espola (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Well, isn't Fauci?  Trump?  Cuomo?  Keepermom?
> 
> I've been pretty consistent on this.  Not the flu but I do think we are overreacting and in an irrational panic.  If I were emperor I wouldn't shut down school or youth sports at least for the fall (it's not where the transmission is).  Wouldn't have given the protests a free pass, don't like the large scale gatherings going on in private homes either, didn't think an indoor Trump rally was a good idea either.  I would have done a mask program early on (said Fauci was full of s--- from the beginning) and would have mobilized resources to produce masks that might actually help (not bandanas and stupid surgical masks).  I wouldn't have locked down the South when they did (would have waited several weeks), I would have locked down New York, and though the Constitution doesn't allow it if I were emperor I probably would have shut travel from NY if I were emperor as well as the southern border to even US citizens.  I wouldn't have sent sick people back into nursing homes.  And no, that would have been without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
> 
> Beyond that there's not much that governments can do.  Some got lucky in their timing and some didn't.  This is going to happen, unfortunately, and there's not a whole lot we can do to control it.  I know that's uncomfortable in our "we must do something" society but there's really not a whole to be done.  Governments, left and right, democratic and authoritarian, have failed around the world at controlling the thing.


None of that impacts my opinion of your performance.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Well, a lot of the reporting was before Sweden took a turn for the better.  I agree they made a mistake, but the Swedish example hows even if you don't lock down, the initial wave does eventually burn out.


That is not what it shows at all and by the way...this was reported today.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

espola said:


> None of that impacts my opinion of your performance.


Well, you can't win em all I guess.  Your critique is noted.  I let my record though speak for itself: knew how this would play out well back in January (and took steps to prepare personally, in business, and at my son's school), nailed the shutdown almost within the week a month out, nailed the stock market crash to the day (as well as the subsequent so-so recovery), the pattern over the summer in Socal, the IFR to less than .1 of a decimal point (when the WHO was saying 3%), the asymptomatic transmission, and both the current patterns in the US and Europe.  Was wrong about Australia... at least so far.....


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> That is not what it shows at all and by the way...this was reported today.


Look at the Swedish charts (both death and reported).  It's very clear they are on the down slope of their wave.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Well, isn't Fauci?  Trump?  Cuomo?  Keepermom?
> 
> I've been pretty consistent on this.  Not the flu but I do think we are overreacting and in an irrational panic.  If I were emperor I wouldn't shut down school or youth sports at least for the fall (it's not where the transmission is).  Wouldn't have given the protests a free pass, don't like the large scale gatherings going on in private homes either, didn't think an indoor Trump rally was a good idea either.  I would have done a mask program early on (said Fauci was full of s--- from the beginning) and would have mobilized resources to produce masks that might actually help (not bandanas and stupid surgical masks).  I wouldn't have locked down the South when they did (would have waited several weeks), I would have locked down New York, and though the Constitution doesn't allow it if I were emperor I probably would have shut travel from NY if I were emperor as well as the southern border to even US citizens.  I wouldn't have sent sick people back into nursing homes.  And no, that would have been without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
> 
> Beyond that there's not much that governments can do.  Some got lucky in their timing and some didn't.  This is going to happen, unfortunately, and there's not a whole lot we can do to control it.  I know that's uncomfortable in our "we must do something" society but there's really not a whole to be done.  Governments, left and right, democratic and authoritarian, have failed around the world at controlling the thing.





Grace T. said:


> Look at the Swedish charts (both death and reported).  It's very clear they are on the down slope of their wave.


I think you are reaching to make yourself right. I think the headline is clear...Certified Failure.


----------



## Woobie06 (Jul 7, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Newsome - ask him why his Winery didn’t have to closewhen everyone else did.


Exactly


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I think you are reaching to make yourself right. I think the headline is clear...Certified Failure.


Well, I'm in good company then since everyone else has as well.  As with espola, though, I'll let me track record speak for itself.  Can't really argue with you if you refuse to acknowledge the clear numbers.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Well, I'm in good company then since everyone else has as well.  As with espola, though, I'll let me track record speak for itself.  Can't really argue with you if you refuse to acknowledge the clear numbers.











						Sweden COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
					

Sweden Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.




					www.worldometers.info


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Well, I'm in good company then since everyone else has as well.  As with espola, though, I'll let me track record speak for itself.  Can't really argue with you if you refuse to acknowledge the clear numbers.


You have not presented one clear number or anything to back your outlandish claim of it fizzling out.  When clear data was presented to you showing you were wrong on every claim you just went on to another claim touting your superior knowledge with absolutely nothing to back it up.  There is not one country that COVID just fizzles out without some kind of significant strategies.  No matter how badly you want it to be that, you have presented nothing to support it.   Show some facts...


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> You have not presented one clear number or anything to back your outlandish claim of it fizzling out.  When clear data was presented to you showing you were wrong on every claim you just went on to another claim touting your superior knowledge with absolutely nothing to back it up.  There is not one country that COVID just fizzles out without some kind of significant strategies.  No matter how badly you want it to be that, you have presented nothing to support it.   Show some facts...


Look at the chart.  I did the research for you.  The wave in Sweden has crested,both in death and new cases.  I'm not saying the Swedish strategy was the right one.  But the waves (even in much maligned Sweden) do eventually expire.  It's math.


----------



## watfly (Jul 7, 2020)

Back on topic for a second...my son's first game for the MLS league is scheduled for Sept 12.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Sweden's Covid Experiment is Now a Certified Failure
> 
> 
> Open Air Failure Sweden captured international attention for its decision to buck the trend on mandated shut-ins.  The results are now in as Sweden Has Become
> ...


This doesn't look good for Sweden. Sadly, it's not really over for anyone yet. Come September/October, it wouldn't be surprising to see a second wave.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 7, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> This doesn't look good for Sweden. Sadly, it's not really over for anyone yet. Come September/October, it wouldn't be surprising to see a second wave.


The point isn't if it's good for Sweden or not.  The relevant point is that the waves all eventually expire.  The question of the second wave is an open one because we don't know why the waves are expiring on their own (regardless of what governments do, severity of lockdown etc).  Some scientists have argued its because of cross coronavirus immunity or T cell immunity.  Some scientist have argued the virus has mutated.  We just don't know why, but we do know it is happening.  The only region so far though that's had a high second wave after having a high first one is Iran, but their data has is unreliable as is their testing so we just don't really know.  It's also possible that places like Sweden and Spain fare better for having had larger waves but we just don't know.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Look at the chart.  I did the research for you.  The wave in Sweden has crested,both in death and new cases.  I'm not saying the Swedish strategy was the right one.  But the waves (even in much maligned Sweden) do eventually expire.  It's math.


Yeah, this chart is the one you are talking about.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 7, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The point isn't if it's good for Sweden or not.  The relevant point is that the waves all eventually expire.  The question of the second wave is an open one because we don't know why the waves are expiring on their own (regardless of what governments do, severity of lockdown etc).  Some scientists have argued its because of cross coronavirus immunity or T cell immunity.  Some scientist have argued the virus has mutated.  We just don't know why, but we do know it is happening.  The only region so far though that's had a high second wave after having a high first one is Iran, but their data has is unreliable as is their testing so we just don't really know.


Agreed. I was only referring to the "gain" economically vs. the loss in life that they may have been able to mitigate by shutting down. My point was that if we get a second wave this fall, all these "numbers" change again. I hope not, but it appears to be the common belief that there will be some sort of 2nd wave of the virus this fall.

You were spot on with the "slow burn" in California when you posted back in May. I can't say I read anything anywhere else predicting that. Maybe it was out there, but I didn't see it. Well done.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 7, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> You have not presented one clear number or anything to back your outlandish claim of it fizzling out.  When clear data was presented to you showing you were wrong on every claim you just went on to another claim touting your superior knowledge with absolutely nothing to back it up.  There is not one country that COVID just fizzles out without some kind of significant strategies.  No matter how badly you want it to be that, you have presented nothing to support it.   Show some facts...


So, what about that graph isn't "fizzling out"?


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 8, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Look at the chart.  I did the research for you.  The wave in Sweden has crested,both in death and new cases.  I'm not saying the Swedish strategy was the right one.  But the waves (even in much maligned Sweden) do eventually expire.  It's math.


You can say it. The Swedish strategy was obviously the wrong one. As was the Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc...

NY Times:

“Sweden's decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic led to thousands of more people dying than in neighboring countries — and didn't spare its economy, either. “They literally gained nothing,” one researcher said.

Here is one takeaway with potentially universal import: It is simplistic to portray government actions such as quarantines as the cause of economic damage. The real culprit is the virus itself.”


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 8, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Yeah, this chart is the one you are talking about.
> 
> View attachment 8069


The article basically concluded that it was a Failure.  “But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.
Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent.”

Spain is also seeing new hot spots. I can’t think of any leader in the US that could have avoided our current mess. Most could do better than Trump but nobody would have been able to succeed.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 8, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> The article basically concluded that it was a Failure.  “But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.
> Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent.”
> 
> Spain is also seeing new hot spots. I can’t think of any leader in the US that could have avoided our current mess. Most could do better than Trump but nobody would have been able to succeed.


Fear+Politics+Lawsuits is a deadly mix for any business to succeed or for anyone to have a normal life of peace & safety.  I think most want peace.  If you don;t have safety you won't have peace.  No peace=fear=????


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 8, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> The article basically concluded that it was a Failure.  “But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.
> Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent.”
> 
> Spain is also seeing new hot spots. I can’t think of any leader in the US that could have avoided our current mess. Most could do better than Trump but nobody would have been able to succeed.


Again not holding up Sweden as an example that should be followed but an example that even among a near uncontrolled outbreak the wave peters out even without government intervention.  Btw a near majority of Sweden’s deaths were in elder care and retirement living since they made similar mistakes to ny....one can’t say yay Sweden and then boo ny.....one of the reason the cfr is getting better is because other states learned from the mistakes of ny and Europe re these facilities.  The only thing the government intervention might do is hold the peak down if timed properly which is difficult in SoCal since our early lockdown left us with with a slow burn instead of a more common wave so it’s just going to take us longer to go through it.  Add the border, the protests, and the aircon and we are where we are.  Some states that opened before us (d colorado) or countries with no masks (norway Denmark finland) have done better but I suspect not by govt policy but by quirks of luck location and weather.  But I agree that while some might have done better than trump (not sure it’s most since a lot of governors too both d and r have been awful Including our own), none would have succeeded.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 8, 2020)

Return to school & play?  t says you better do your job or else.  Is this a showdown in Cali?  Teachers on here, are you willing to take a risk or is it really too risky?  I'm truly interested.  My nurse friend risk her life everyday and loves the action.


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 8, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Return to school & play?  t says you better do your job or else.  Is this a showdown in Cali?  Teachers on here, are you willing to take a risk or is it really too risky?  I'm truly interested.  My nurse friend risk her life everyday and loves the action.


Just put all teachers in the hazmat suit and open schools!


----------



## messy (Jul 8, 2020)

watfly said:


> Back on topic for a second...my son's first game for the MLS league is scheduled for Sept 12.


What age group? The MLS teams I know aren't talking yet about that.


----------



## Calisoccer11 (Jul 8, 2020)

watfly said:


> Back on topic for a second...my son's first game for the MLS league is scheduled for Sept 12.


that's good news!!  Is the schedule public?  Can you share a link?


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 8, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> The article basically concluded that it was a Failure.  “But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.
> Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent.”
> 
> Spain is also seeing new hot spots. I can’t think of any leader in the US that could have avoided our current mess. Most could do better than Trump but nobody would have been able to succeed.


If not for events, the individual governors, stock market plunge, bad polling, etc., forcing Trump’s hand, the US response would have been like Sweden with 40% more deaths. Except the US has a far more unhealthy population and a primitive healthcare system, and our wave would have crested and taken out the whole beach. Now imagine how much better off we’d be, and closer to reopening youth sports, if Trump had simply said “wear a mask and listen to the doctors!” Instead, he does the opposite of leadership, he looks for any opportunity to exploit the crisis and to cause division and discord. United we stand, divided we fall.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 8, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> The article basically concluded that it was a Failure.  “But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.
> Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent.”


Yeah, that's why my previous post stated, "This doesn't look good for Sweden."


----------



## jpeter (Jul 8, 2020)

messy said:


> What age group? The MLS teams I know aren't talking yet about that.


Generic company line....two weeks ago one of persons involved with the league said the tentative start date is Sept 12th but during these uncertain times we will update you on any changes or details or something like that I recall. 

When real training starts back up and teams can at least scrimmage scheduling details should be coming out I would hope.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 8, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Some states that opened before us (d colorado) or countries with no masks (norway Denmark finland) have done better but I suspect not by govt policy but by *quirks of luck location and weather*.


With the uncertainty around transmission, I am surprised that weather and the associated need to be inside a heated/AC'ed home, doesn't get more consideration. Along with distancing and masks, getting outside seems like a very good idea.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 8, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> I also noted how ICU bed availability is virtually flat from where it was on 5/2 (3922) to where it is on 7/6 (3,925).


keepermom keeps talking about running out of icus. And yet looking at the Cal stats, availability has been flat now for some time.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 8, 2020)

Lionel Hutz said:


> Do you have a link to a study or report that shows this -- genuinely would be interested to read up on something that claims what CFR defines an epidemic and where the CFR is currently falling.


CDC actually has a stat on what level above or below determines if a disease is a pandemic. I was looking at it the other day. Did not save the link. If you dig around I am sure you can find it though.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 8, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> You have not presented one clear number or anything to back your outlandish claim of it fizzling out


You didn't bother to look at the charts regarding Sweden. If you do, you will see it is fizzling out.


----------



## messy (Jul 8, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> You didn't bother to look at the charts regarding Sweden. If you do, you will see it is fizzling out.


*Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale*
Its decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic has yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage — a red flag as the United States and Britain move to lift lockdowns.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 8, 2020)

messy said:


> *Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale*
> Its decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic has yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage — a red flag as the United States and Britain move to lift lockdowns.


And there we have it.  If even the UK isn't safe to open (after their late lockdown and horrible curve), the logic of the panic-drive school is basically perpetual lockdown until a vaccine. No youth sports, no schools until a vaccine (and also, where we started this, no informal get togethers with 'safe' friends).  Stay locked down, stay safe.

Here's a little thought exercise.  We know the flu is more dangerous to the under 12 set.  Yet the under 12 set is being asked to make enormous sacrifice for those that are older, in particular those that are near the end of life.  So, every flu season, shouldn't we be requiring masks of everyone as well?  Yes, we know we have a vaccine and kids die from it, but if masks are a good idea to save the old, shouldn't we also wear masks to save the young, if it is such a small burden on everyone?  If not why are we all asking the young to sacrifice now, if we aren't prepared to sacrifice for them later?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 8, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> And there we have it.  If even the UK isn't safe to open (after their late lockdown and horrible curve), the logic of the panic-drive school is basically perpetual lockdown until a vaccine. No youth sports, no schools until a vaccine (and also, where we started this, no informal get togethers with 'safe' friends).  Stay locked down, stay safe.
> 
> Here's a little thought exercise.  We know the flu is more dangerous to the under 12 set.  Yet the under 12 set is being asked to make enormous sacrifice for those that are older, in particular those that are near the end of life.  So, every flu season, shouldn't we be requiring masks of everyone as well?  Yes, we know we have a vaccine and kids die from it, but if masks are a good idea to save the old, shouldn't we also wear masks to save the young, if it is such a small burden on everyone?  If not why are we all asking the young to sacrifice now, if we aren't prepared to sacrifice for them later?


I dont know about all you older folks older than 50, but my most cherish and valuable times in my life was my youth.  Some are stealing the best times for youths all because.  That is sick!!!


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 8, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> And there we have it.  If even the UK isn't safe to open (after their late lockdown and horrible curve), the logic of the panic-drive school is basically perpetual lockdown until a vaccine. No youth sports, no schools until a vaccine (and also, where we started this, no informal get togethers with 'safe' friends).  Stay locked down, stay safe.
> 
> Here's a little thought exercise.  We know the flu is more dangerous to the under 12 set.  Yet the under 12 set is being asked to make enormous sacrifice for those that are older, in particular those that are near the end of life.  So, every flu season, shouldn't we be requiring masks of everyone as well?  Yes, we know we have a vaccine and kids die from it, but if masks are a good idea to save the old, shouldn't we also wear masks to save the young, if it is such a small burden on everyone?  If not why are we all asking the young to sacrifice now, if we aren't prepared to sacrifice for them later?


Because its the old that are making the rules.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 8, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Look at the chart.  I did the research for you.  The wave in Sweden has crested,both in death and new cases.  I'm not saying the Swedish strategy was the right one.  But the waves (even in much maligned Sweden) do eventually expire.  It's math.


You can't look at deaths in Sweden as an indicator because deaths start to decline the younger the people are that gets it just as has been shown here.  You also can't look at cases just from testing because there are so many variables that could change the picture.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 8, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> You can't look at deaths in Sweden as an indicator because deaths start to decline the younger the people are that gets it just as has been shown here.


You seem to be arguing that early on the young in Sweden were not exposed to the virus, and now they are? And relatedly you seem to be saying it was the old early on getting the virus, and now for some reason they aren't? 

That seems rather unlikely. 

Far more likely as has been said before is that the virus came in strong and is now starting to fizzle out. They are basically done with it it seems.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 8, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I have a different perspective. It's very hard for me to follow advise of so called "experts" when they change their advise every day. I have no problem wearing a mask and with having pre-teen kids sitting at home, but good luck with having teens locked up. Long term mental result of this will be devastating.


The professionals have changed their advice, thank goodness!  No one should keep their head in the sand especially the professionals.  This is a new virus, it is not the "usual" seasonal flu.  I want the professionals to learn as much as possible about covid and make adjustments.   This is not forever, good therapeutics are happening, better treatment and hopefully a vaccine next year.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 8, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> And there we have it.  If even the UK isn't safe to open (after their late lockdown and horrible curve), the logic of the panic-drive school is basically perpetual lockdown until a vaccine. No youth sports, no schools until a vaccine (and also, where we started this, no informal get togethers with 'safe' friends).  Stay locked down, stay safe.
> 
> Here's a little thought exercise.  We know the flu is more dangerous to the under 12 set.  Yet the under 12 set is being asked to make enormous sacrifice for those that are older, in particular those that are near the end of life.  So, every flu season, shouldn't we be requiring masks of everyone as well?  Yes, we know we have a vaccine and kids die from it, but if masks are a good idea to save the old, shouldn't we also wear masks to save the young, if it is such a small burden on everyone?  If not why are we all asking the young to sacrifice now, if we aren't prepared to sacrifice for them later?


Maybe, just maybe, every adult should get a seasonal flu shot!  That is the best way to protect the young who should also get a flu shot!


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 8, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> The professionals have changed their advice, thank goodness!  No one should keep their head in the sand especially the professionals.  This is a new virus, it is not the "usual" seasonal flu.  I want the professionals to learn as much as possible about covid and make adjustments.   This is not forever, good therapeutics are happening, better treatment and hopefully a vaccine next year.



Err...Fauci admitted he basically lied about the masks and we've known about asymptomatic transmissions since the Diamond Princess.  And the "experts" are now talking about mask usage "for years"









						'We'll be living with masks for years': COVID-19 through the eyes of a pandemic expert
					

Since the summer of 2019, I've been speaking with one of the world's leading pandemic experts about what a global outbreak could look like. Now, as the world enters a grim new phase, he says we're in a whole new ball game.




					www.cnet.com


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 8, 2020)

watfly said:


> Unfortunately, a very good friend lost their son to suicide during the lockdown.  Whether the lockdown impacted his actions, we will likely never know.
> I don't know anyone that's a few degrees removed from me that has died of Covid, but I do know a couple other teens in the community that have committed suicide during Covid.  Devastating regardless of the cause.


Horrible tragedy.  I know three teens who committed suicide last fall in our district.  One a neighbor.  Please, please if you suspect your child has a mental illness, seek help either through your school district or the county or a private source.  Even young children resort to suicide.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 8, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Maybe, just maybe, every adult should get a seasonal flu shot!  That is the best way to protect the young who should also get a flu shot!


The flu shot isn't very good.  Some years it's a pretty big bust.  The COVID vaccine might not be very efficient (some experts are saying you may need to get a booster every 3 months).  And if you think the government isn't going to mandate it (at least for govt employees, students, grant recipients and contractors, and large corps) or at a minimum work it so it's excluded from insurance if you don't get it, I have news for you.  A rushed vaccine being injected into children is going to make for a very very ugly fight (full disclaimer: my kids going to get it, even though he might have had it).


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 8, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Err...Fauci admitted he basically lied about the masks and we've known about asymptomatic transmissions since the Diamond Princess.  And the "experts" are now talking about mask usage "for years"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like I said before, if you have half a brain you figured this out in the beginning.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 8, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> You didn't bother to look at the charts regarding Sweden. If you do, you will see it is fizzling out.


I talked about ICU beds a couple of weeks ago noting that if something didn't change, we are going to have a problem.  They started dealing with ICU bed capacity by increasing it through deferral of surgeries etc. and what appears to be converting regular hospital beds to ICU beds.  You can tell this by looking at the availability chart.  When it says they have an increase in ICU patients of 10 yet there was an increase in capacity in one day of about 30, it is pretty obvious.  I do have a contact at a facility that confirmed that is what is being done. 

Once I saw they were doing that, I started talking and looking *ONLY* at overall hospitalizations.  I stated 2 weeks ago if they do nothing it appears we have a problem with capacity.  Guess what, they did something last Wednesday or Thursday and most likely because they saw the same hospitalization capacity concerns and started discussing enforcement of wearing masks.  They closed bars, locked down beaches for the weekend, and closed indoor dining.  I believe we will see some benefit from that in about 14 to 21 days.  Hopefully it is enough to not require further lock downs.  I am still seeing people not wearing masks and stores not enforcing.    I did see a hopeful sign yesterday with the lowest 7 day calculation of increase change or 27% that I have seen (when calculating numbers based on days with 100% facilities reporting) in the last couple of weeks.  All of the days I calculated 7 day change were above 30%.  I am hoping that the same holds true for today and tomorrow and going forward.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 8, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> You seem to be arguing that early on the young in Sweden were not exposed to the virus, and now they are? And relatedly you seem to be saying it was the old early on getting the virus, and now for some reason they aren't?
> 
> That seems rather unlikely.
> 
> Far more likely as has been said before is that the virus came in strong and is now starting to fizzle out. They are basically done with it it seems.


Try reading the article before commenting.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 8, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The flu shot isn't very good.  Some years it's a pretty big bust.  The COVID vaccine might not be very efficient (some experts are saying you may need to get a booster every 3 months).  And if you think the government isn't going to mandate it (at least for govt employees, students, grant recipients and contractors, and large corps) or at a minimum work it so it's excluded from insurance if you don't get it, I have news for you.  A rushed vaccine being injected into children is going to make for a very very ugly fight (full disclaimer: my kids going to get it, even though he might have had it).


The majority of years the flu vaccine is at least 50% - 70% effective and lessons your chance of dying if you do get the flu. I'm sorry, if you can afford to play soccer, go to movies, go out to eat, then you can pay for a flu shot if your insurance doesn't cover it. It's a matter of priorities. As someone else put correctly, health care workers, law enforcement, people with compromised immune systems, the elderly, will probably get the vaccine before children. Most flu shots are only good for about three months, so nothing new there.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 8, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> You seem to be arguing that early on the young in Sweden were not exposed to the virus, and now they are? And relatedly you seem to be saying it was the old early on getting the virus, and now for some reason they aren't?
> 
> That seems rather unlikely.
> 
> Far more likely as has been said before is that the virus came in strong and is now starting to fizzle out. They are basically done with it it seems.


And show anything at all that shows that it fizzles out before overwhelming hospitals and/or causing 40% more deaths.  Why don't you start with Florida, Texas, and Arizona to see the fizzling out theory is working.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 8, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Horrible tragedy.  I know three teens who committed suicide last fall in our district.  One a neighbor.  Please, *please if you suspect your child has a mental illness*, seek help either through your school district or the county or a private source.  Even young children resort to suicide.


Sometimes the parents and the adults dealing with teens are the ones that have all the mental issues and the kid just feels beaten down by them all and all their problems in life, spills onto the teen and they see no purpose to live so they check themselves out too.  Most the parents I've talked to who lost a loved one from suicide were shocked and did not see it coming.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 8, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> And show anything at all that shows that it fizzles out before overwhelming hospitals and/or causing 40% more deaths.  Why don't you start with Florida, Texas, and Arizona to see the fizzling out theory is working.


How about we start with back east. The hardest hit. They assumed they would run out of beds. They didn't. Why do you assume that in Cal it will be different and Cal will run out?


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 8, 2020)

Vaccine? Not happening - not now, not anytime soon. You are too naive if you believe in this. Doctors still don't know shit about COVID-19.


----------



## whatithink (Jul 8, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> How about we start with back east. The hardest hit. They assumed they would run out of beds. They didn't. Why do you assume that in Cal it will be different and Cal will run out?


I thought the concern was running out of ICU beds rather than hospital beds. Seems to be concerning officials in Florida, Arizona & Texas









						Nearly 84% of Florida's ICU beds are filled amid rising coronavirus cases
					

On Tuesday, at least two counties had no more ICU beds available.




					www.cbsnews.com


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 8, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Vaccine? Not happening - not now, not anytime soon. You are too naive if you believe in this. Doctors still don't know shit about COVID-19.


We'll have a vaccine.  It's not very hard to do...the science has been around a very very long time.  Things like the flu/colds are harder because of the multiple viruses that cause the illness.  It just may not be a very good vaccine which is why the chatter in the scientific circles is we may need boosters as often as every 3 months and why they might need to make it mandatory for everyone.  And it could always mutate (more substantially than it has so far) which would further complicate things.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 8, 2020)

whatithink said:


> I thought the concern was running out of ICU beds rather than hospital beds. Seems to be concerning officials in Florida, Arizona & Texas
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*Hospitals Proved Surprisingly Adept at Adding Beds*
When calculating whether hospitals would run out of beds, experts used as their baseline the number of beds in use in each hospital, region and state. That makes sense in normal times because hospitals have to meet stringent rules before they are able to add regular beds or intensive care units.

But in the early weeks of the pandemic, state health departments waived many rules and hospitals responded by increasing their capacity, sometimes dramatically. “Just because you only have six ICU beds doesn’t mean they will only have six ICU beds next week,” Muhlestein said. “They can really ramp that up. That’s one of the things we’re learning.”

Take Northwell Health, a chain of 17 acute-care hospitals in New York. Typically, the system has 4,000 beds, not including maternity beds, neonatal intensive care unit beds and psychiatric beds. The system grew to 6,000 beds within two weeks.

-----

As hospitals found ways to expand, government leaders worked with the Army Corps of Engineers to build dozens of field hospitals across the country, such as the one at the Javits Center. According to an analysis of federal spending by NPR, those efforts cost at least $660 million. “But nearly four months into the pandemic, most of these facilities haven’t treated a single patient,” NPR reported.

-----


*Demand for Non-COVID-19 Care Plummeted More Than Expected*
Hospitals across the country canceled elective surgeries, from hip replacements to kidney transplants. That greatly reduced the number of non-COVID-19 patients they had to treat. “We generated a lot more capacity by getting rid of elective procedures than any of us thought was possible,” Harvard’s Jha said.









						How America’s Hospitals Survived the First Wave of the Coronavirus
					

ProPublica deputy managing editor Charles Ornstein wanted to know why experts were wrong when they said U.S. hospitals would be overwhelmed by COVID-19 patients. Here’s what he learned, including what hospitals can do before the next wave.




					www.propublica.org


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 8, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> How about we start with back east. The hardest hit. They assumed they would run out of beds. They didn't. Why do you assume that in Cal it will be different and Cal will run out?


I don't believe I ever used the term running out of beds.  I have always come at this by saying capacity issues.  I used licensed bed as the basis.  Of course there is the ability to expand the number of beds and FEMA is working on it right now.  There is a 1,000 bed ship parked in San Diego right now and I know Fresno County who is experiencing the same issues is making plans to use their Convention Center.  I have not heard anything from OC Health of what plans they have which now is the time they should be planning for it.  I have watched press conferences with OC health and I am very scared.  The leadership for LA Health is the bomb and is on top of everything.  OC Health....they are a disaster waiting to happen.

Any way, like I said, we reach capacity of licensed beds in August if we keep increasing at the weekly rate we have been increasing for the last few weeks.   The State seemed to realize this too which is why they pulled back on some openings and put enforcement in place.  Hopefully these steps put in place slows the spread down thus slowing down hospitalizations and not requiring further levels of shut downs.

What is the reasonable # of beds that can be added?  IDK because no one is reporting that.  Considering counties from Central Cal on down are experiencing exponential weekly growth in hospitalizations, can we count on other counties and who gets that 1000 bed ship and how fast does it fill up.  If we only get the hospitalization increase rate down to only 20% increase a week instead of 30% or more that we have been running, that gets us a few extra weeks and the reality is OC alone would need an additional 1,200 more beds per week.    New York was able to deal with capacity issues because they completely shut down and New Yorkers were scared.  

The point is, expect additional levels of shut down if we don't flatten the hospital bed increase percentage from week to week.  I am expecting some level of flattening over the coming weeks from the recent mandates but the question remains will it be enough.

Also, as was explained to me from someone from FEMA, you can convert a certain amount of hospital beds to ICU beds if you have the proper equipment and the ICU trained staff.  I see the shortage of ICU trained staff has been the problem in Arizona and Texas.  They have been flying them in but it has still been the struggle.

I have tried every way I know how to explain this to you and a couple of others.  Bottom line, shut downs are not about death rate rather hospitalization capacity.  Expect some additional shut downs if the Hospitalization increase rate from week to week doesn't change.  

I don't care whether you agree or not.  I am done explaining it.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 8, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I don't believe I ever used the term running out of beds.  I have always come at this by saying capacity issues.  I used licensed bed as the basis.  Of course there is the ability to expand the number of beds and FEMA is working on it right now.  There is a 1,000 bed ship parked in San Diego right now and I know Fresno County who is experiencing the same issues is making plans to use their Convention Center.  I have not heard anything from OC Health of what plans they have which now is the time they should be planning for it.  I have watched press conferences with OC health and I am very scared.  The leadership for LA Health is the bomb and is on top of everything.  OC Health....they are a disaster waiting to happen.
> 
> Any way, like I said, we reach capacity of licensed beds in August if we keep increasing at the weekly rate we have been increasing for the last few weeks.   The State seemed to realize this too which is why they pulled back on some openings and put enforcement in place.  Hopefully these steps put in place slows the spread down thus slowing down hospitalizations and not requiring further levels of shut downs.
> 
> ...


... seems like your answer to a perceived bed capacity issue is to follow NY and "completely shut down and be scared." To which I find completely unacceptable and completely unAmerican.

You're welcome to completely stay home and be completely scared... but if it's all the same to you,  I'll go with Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 8, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> ... seems like your answer to perceived bed capacity issue is follow NY "completely shut down and be scared." To which I find completely unacceptable and completely unAmerican.
> 
> You're welcome to completely stay home and be completely scared... but if it's all the same to you,  I'll go with Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.


That is what you got out of what I said?  Wow!!!!!  I will be hiding all of your comments because you clearly have another agenda that is completely not useful.  Goodbye!


----------



## messy (Jul 8, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> ... seems like your answer to a perceived bed capacity issue is to follow NY and "completely shut down and be scared." To which I find completely unacceptable and completely unAmerican.
> 
> You're welcome to completely stay home and be completely scared... but if it's all the same to you,  I'll go with Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.


We band together in crisis. 
That’s what Americans do.
We sacrifice to defeat the enemy. 
Refusal to sacrifice is un-American.
Wear your mask and socially distance.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 8, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> How about we start with back east. The hardest hit. They assumed they would run out of beds. They didn't. Why do you assume that in Cal it will be different and Cal will run out?


Still dont want to talk about your own state?

We dont need to ask whether unrestricted opening is a good idea.  Arizona was kind enough to run the experiment for us.  Cases shot up, followed by hospitalizations and deaths.   AZ is now within 10% of running out of ICU space.  Thanks for the data, but we don't need to copy your plan.

I wish we could try the experiment where 100% of us wash our hands, skip parties, and wear masks.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 8, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I don't believe I ever used the term running out of beds.  I have always come at this by saying capacity issues.  I used licensed bed as the basis.  Of course there is the ability to expand the number of beds and FEMA is working on it right now.  There is a 1,000 bed ship parked in San Diego right now and I know Fresno County who is experiencing the same issues is making plans to use their Convention Center.  I have not heard anything from OC Health of what plans they have which now is the time they should be planning for it.  I have watched press conferences with OC health and I am very scared.  The leadership for LA Health is the bomb and is on top of everything.  OC Health....they are a disaster waiting to happen.
> 
> Any way, like I said, we reach capacity of licensed beds in August if we keep increasing at the weekly rate we have been increasing for the last few weeks.   The State seemed to realize this too which is why they pulled back on some openings and put enforcement in place.  Hopefully these steps put in place slows the spread down thus slowing down hospitalizations and not requiring further levels of shut downs.
> 
> ...


Wife just told me that her hospital is no longer accepting socal patients as of yesterday.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 8, 2020)

messy said:


> We band together in crisis.
> That’s what Americans do.
> We sacrifice to defeat the enemy.
> Refusal to sacrifice is un-American.
> Wear your mask and socially distance.


Sure, if you pretend she didn't say this:

"New York was able to deal with capacity issues because they completely shut down and New Yorkers were scared."

We have an obvious difference of opinion on what Americans do. In fact, based on most posts I've seen of yours, we definitely have a difference of opinion on the exceptionalism of America.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 8, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> That is what you got out of what I said?  Wow!!!!!  I will be hiding all of your comments because you clearly have another agenda that is completely not useful.  Goodbye!


Yes, you said: 

"New York was able to deal with capacity issues because they completely shut down and New Yorkers were scared."

...but okay.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 8, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Wife just told me that her hospital is no longer accepting socal patients as of yesterday.


She's one of the lucky ones. Does she know how much capacity has been lost and workers laid off / furloughed since March?


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 8, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Still dont want to talk about your own state?
> 
> We dont need to ask whether unrestricted opening is a good idea.  Arizona was kind enough to run the experiment for us.  Cases shot up, followed by hospitalizations and deaths.   AZ is now within 10% of running out of ICU space.  Thanks for the data, but we don't need to copy your plan.
> 
> I wish we could try the experiment where 100% of us wash our hands, skip parties, and wear masks.


Despite substantially more cases since we opened up May 11 or so, deaths are only up marginally. Pre open up our highest deaths per day was 28. We have hit 38 as the max now. 

Cal is seeing the same thing. Large spikes in positive cases and yet deaths remain fairly flat. 

What is interesting is how the reporting is happening now. 

Early on the press was counting deaths every day in the country. Deaths have fallen dramatically. So now the talk about #s who have tested positive with very little discussion regarding deaths and the fact that week by week there are fewer and fewer deaths being recorded.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 8, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Still dont want to talk about your own state?
> 
> We dont need to ask whether unrestricted opening is a good idea.  Arizona was kind enough to run the experiment for us.  Cases shot up, followed by hospitalizations and deaths.   AZ is now within 10% of running out of ICU space.  Thanks for the data, but we don't need to copy your plan.
> 
> I wish we could try the experiment where 100% of us wash our hands, skip parties, and wear masks.


Sure masks when necessary, distancing, increased hygiene.  I'm not comfortable experimenting with the mental and physical health of kids...are you?


----------



## whatithink (Jul 8, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> *Hospitals Proved Surprisingly Adept at Adding Beds*
> When calculating whether hospitals would run out of beds, experts used as their baseline the number of beds in use in each hospital, region and state. That makes sense in normal times because hospitals have to meet stringent rules before they are able to add regular beds or intensive care units.
> 
> But in the early weeks of the pandemic, state health departments waived many rules and hospitals responded by increasing their capacity, sometimes dramatically. “Just because you only have six ICU beds doesn’t mean they will only have six ICU beds next week,” Muhlestein said. “They can really ramp that up. That’s one of the things we’re learning.”
> ...


Interesting article, but its not just about beds, i.e. from the article

_"While hospitals were able to add beds more quickly than experts realized they could, some other resources were harder to come by. Masks, gowns and other personal protective equipment were tough to get. So were ventilators. Anesthesia agents and dialysis medications were in short supply. And every additional bed meant the need for more doctors, nurses and respiratory therapists."_

Interesting quote at the end also

_Lynam of Northwell said he's worried about what lies ahead. “You look back on the 1918 Spanish flu and the majority of victims from that died in the second wave. … We don't know what's coming on the second wave. There may be some folks who say you're paranoid, but you've got to be prepared for the worst." _


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 8, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I don't believe I ever used the term running out of beds.  I have always come at this by saying capacity issues.  I used licensed bed as the basis.  Of course there is the ability to expand the number of beds and FEMA is working on it right now.  There is a 1,000 bed ship parked in San Diego right now and I know Fresno County who is experiencing the same issues is making plans to use their Convention Center.  I have not heard anything from OC Health of what plans they have which now is the time they should be planning for it.  I have watched press conferences with OC health and I am very scared.  The leadership for LA Health is the bomb and is on top of everything.  OC Health....they are a disaster waiting to happen.
> 
> Any way, like I said, we reach capacity of licensed beds in August if we keep increasing at the weekly rate we have been increasing for the last few weeks.   The State seemed to realize this too which is why they pulled back on some openings and put enforcement in place.  Hopefully these steps put in place slows the spread down thus slowing down hospitalizations and not requiring further levels of shut downs.
> 
> ...


Any chance your posts can be put on audio book?


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Jul 8, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Despite substantially more cases since we opened up May 11 or so, deaths are only up marginally. Pre open up our highest deaths per day was 28. We have hit 38 as the max now.
> 
> Cal is seeing the same thing. Large spikes in positive cases and yet deaths remain fairly flat.


You call this "fairly flat"?  Most would disagree.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 8, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I don't believe I ever used the term running out of beds.  I have always come at this by saying capacity issues.  I used licensed bed as the basis.  Of course there is the ability to expand the number of beds and FEMA is working on it right now.  There is a 1,000 bed ship parked in San Diego right now and I know Fresno County who is experiencing the same issues is making plans to use their Convention Center.  I have not heard anything from OC Health of what plans they have which now is the time they should be planning for it.  *I have watched press conferences with OC health and I am very scared.  The leadership for LA Health is the bomb and is on top of everything.  OC Health....they are a disaster waiting to happen.*
> 
> Any way, like I said, we reach capacity of licensed beds in August if we keep increasing at the weekly rate we have been increasing for the last few weeks.   The State seemed to realize this too which is why they pulled back on some openings and put enforcement in place.  Hopefully these steps put in place slows the spread down thus slowing down hospitalizations and not requiring further levels of shut downs.
> 
> ...


LA vs OC now?  Please keeper mom, just please........  I know your very scared and are so many like you are scared of death.  Some are scared to get the virus and some are scared that t will win and some are scared of both and because their scared out of their minds, they have blocked the kids from living and others from living, all because their scared and full of fear.  The LA Health group 100% said go protest because it's essential or something like that.  Now you have more cases.  Here's where I'm at.  Either we all go on lock down and lose our jobs together or those who can and want to, go outside and live life.  This sucks!!!!


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 8, 2020)

whatithink said:


> Interesting article, but its not just about beds, i.e. from the article
> 
> _"While hospitals were able to add beds more quickly than experts realized they could, some other resources were harder to come by. Masks, gowns and other personal protective equipment were tough to get. So were ventilators. Anesthesia agents and dialysis medications were in short supply. And every additional bed meant the need for more doctors, nurses and respiratory therapists."_
> 
> ...


Well at the beginning all the countries in the world were scrambling for gear...including the US. Since that time we have ramped up supplies dramatically. 

In terms of 1918 and a 2nd wave. Yep we don't know if there will be a more deadly wave. As such the states and the feds keep stocking supplies. If the argument is we don't know what happens in the future therefore lets lock ourselves up, I am not for that approach.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 8, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> You call this "fairly flat"?  Most would disagree.
> 
> View attachment 8078


It is fairly flat. We were pre open up seeing mid to high 20s deaths per day. Now we are seeing mid 30s to some high 30s deaths. So all of 5-10 more deaths per day than earlier. That in a population of 7 million or so. So yes pretty flat.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 8, 2020)

Speaking of hospital beds in Cal. 

The CDC shows that right now about 45k beds are in use in the state of Cal. 

The state has a hospital bed capacity of 75K.


----------



## espola (Jul 8, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> It is fairly flat. We were pre open up seeing mid to high 20s deaths per day. Now we are seeing mid 30s to some high 30s deaths. So all of 5-10 more deaths per day than earlier. That in a population of 7 million or so. So yes pretty flat.


You might ask Izzy for some help on your math there.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 8, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Wife just told me that her hospital is no longer accepting socal patients as of yesterday.


Sorry if I missed this, but where is her hospital based?


----------



## chiefs (Jul 8, 2020)

Since LA has the vast majority of Calif cases and deaths, has anyone thought of just isolating them in place? Why should anyone in Orange or San Bern or SD county have to be concerned what those loons have done?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 8, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> She's one of the lucky ones. Does she know how much capacity has been lost and workers laid off / furloughed since March?


The hospitals in NorCal were laying folks off.  My wife volunteered to take a month of vacation so others more in need wouldn’t be laid off.
You see, the good thing about growing up poor, is that I don’t trip on material things.  As long as I have my health and can get whatever I lose back.  Man makes money, money doesn’t make the man.

Are you to good to eat beans, rice, & cornbread until things get better.  Or do you want some cheese to go with that WINE?


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 8, 2020)

MacDre said:


> The hospitals in NorCal were laying folks off.  My wife volunteered to take a month of vacation so others more in need wouldn’t be laid off.
> You see, the good thing about growing up poor, is that I don’t trip on material things.  As long as I have my health and can get whatever I lose back.  Man makes money, money doesn’t make the man.
> 
> Are you to good to eat beans, rice, & cornbread until things get better.  Or do you want some cheese to go with that WINE?


I would prefer a good whisky or and IPA instead of wine. Cheese sounds good too : )


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 8, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Since LA has the vast majority of Calif cases and deaths, has anyone thought of just isolating them in place? Why should anyone in Orange or San Bern or SD county have to be concerned what those loons have done?


Then isolate the City of LA, not the county


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 8, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I agree with almost everything you said.  I do believe the boarder plays a role but I have seen no evidence that it is "significant" t"





Keepermom2 said:


> And show anything at all that shows that it fizzles out before overwhelming hospitals and/or causing 40% more deaths.  Why don't you start with Florida, Texas, and Arizona to see the fizzling out theory is working.


So concerned for the daughter of a friend of mine who is finishing her last rotation to become a PA in Arizona.  She is on course to take her boards in the fall.  A lot of hard work for her.  Hope she stays safe.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 8, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Sorry if I missed this, but where is her hospital based?


Northbay Healthcare Fairfield & Vacaville.


----------



## whatithink (Jul 8, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Well at the beginning all the countries in the world were scrambling for gear...including the US. Since that time we have ramped up supplies dramatically.
> 
> In terms of 1918 and a 2nd wave. Yep we don't know if there will be a more deadly wave. As such the states and the feds keep stocking supplies. If the argument is we don't know what happens in the future therefore lets lock ourselves up, I am not for that approach.


I'm not for locking up either. The intent has always been, afaik, to manage capacity as the virus isn't going away, flattening the curve and all that.

Adding beds isn't adding ICU beds with all that entails. Adding ICU beds & equipment isn't adding trained staffed to run the ICUs. So adding 2,000 beds in 2 weeks reads great but that doesn't mean that they are effective for patients who need ICU. The stories out of Italy & Spain from the medical professionals there was of them having to decide who got the ICU, in the knowledge that the other person could die as a result. The goal is to avoid medical professionals from having to make that choice.

Anyway, I think the shut downs are for shit. This isn't going away and we need to get a new temporary norm in place. Masks & distancing help, so everyone should be in on that. Businesses should be allowed to open with sensible restrictions and if they are ignoring those restrictions then shut them down, e.g. the Scottsdale bars. That will stop that shit pretty quick and we can all get back to living. Shutting all bars or gyms etc because of a few bad players is plain stupid IMO. Businesses, employees and consumers shouldn't all suffer because of a few "bad players".


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 8, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Since LA has the vast majority of Calif cases and deaths, has anyone thought of just isolating them in place? Why should anyone in Orange or San Bern or SD county have to be concerned what those loons have done?


Let's isolate every community.  Ladera Ranch started with seven cases, now they are over fifty. Isolate now and stop the spread!  Isolate RSM, Mission Viejo, Lake Forest, Irvine, San Juan Capistrano, Newport Beach, Garden Grove, Costa Mesa, Hungtington Beach. , Tustin, Orange, Oceanside, Santa Ana, Anaheim, oh wait, that's where Disneyland is, people would protest and freak over that!  After all, we now have over 20,000 cases with over a 1,000 new cases every day. Hey and San Diego isn't far beyond at 18,000 cases.


MicPaPa said:


> ... seems like your answer to a perceived bed capacity issue is to follow NY and "completely shut down and be scared." To which I find completely unacceptable and completely unAmerican.
> 
> You're welcome to completely stay home and be completely scared... but if it's all the same to you,  I'll go with Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.


You mean "Home of the Stupid"?


----------



## Justafan (Jul 8, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Since LA has the vast majority of Calif cases and deaths, has anyone thought of just isolating them in place? Why should anyone in Orange or San Bern or SD county have to be concerned what those loons have done?


Sorry, but that's what happens when the father pawns off the greatest responsibility of his lifetime to his 50 children and 1000's of grandchildren.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 8, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> ... seems like your answer to a perceived bed capacity issue is to follow NY and "completely shut down and be scared." To which I find completely unacceptable and completely unAmerican.
> 
> You're welcome to completely stay home and be completely scared... but if it's all the same to you,  I'll go with Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.


OK Mr. Brave Man, I'm still waiting for your response because that "....ultimately we the people" response was sissy like.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 8, 2020)

whatithink said:


> Adding ICU beds & equipment isn't adding trained staffed to run the ICUs. So adding 2,000 beds in 2 weeks reads great but that doesn't mean that they are effective for patients who need ICU.


What will happen is this. I have friends in the medical field here in AZ. In March/April when AZ had nothing going on, they went to NY to help out.

If today certain states need help, I suspect strongly that medical professionals from states past the wave come out here to help. It is what we do.




whatithink said:


> The stories out of Italy & Spain from the medical professionals there was of them having to decide who got the ICU, in the knowledge that the other person could die as a result. The goal is to avoid medical professionals from having to make that choice.


Italy and Spain have socialist health care systems and have far fewer resources available vs the US. Less beds, less equipment, less trained people, etc. So in this case an apples and oranges comparison. 


whatithink said:


> Businesses, employees and consumers shouldn't all suffer because of a few "bad players".


Agreed. Further I dislike the idea that politicians dictate which businesses get to live and which die. Rather arbitrary.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 8, 2020)

MacDre said:


> The hospitals in NorCal were laying folks off.  My wife volunteered to take a month of vacation so others more in need wouldn’t be laid off.
> You see, the good thing about growing up poor, is that I don’t trip on material things.  As long as I have my health and can get whatever I lose back.  Man makes money, money doesn’t make the man.
> 
> Are you to good to eat beans, rice, & cornbread until things get better.  Or do you want some cheese to go with that WINE?


LOL! Once a victim always a victim. Let me guess, you were the kid at the birthday party always crying because others got a bigger piece of cake. Oh wait, too poor for parties...my bad!


----------



## chiefs (Jul 8, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Let's isolate every community.  Ladera Ranch started with seven cases, now they are over fifty. Isolate now and stop the spread!  Isolate RSM, Mission Viejo, Lake Forest, Irvine, San Juan Capistrano, Newport Beach, Garden Grove, Costa Mesa, Hungtington Beach. , Tustin, Orange, Oceanside, Santa Ana, Anaheim, oh wait, that's where Disneyland is, people would protest and freak over that!  After all, we now have over 20,000 cases with over a 1,000 new cases every day. Hey and San Diego isn't far beyond at 18,000 cases.
> 
> You mean "Home of the Stupid"?


Facts are LA is the massive problem; read, study and go right to the root cause.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 8, 2020)

Justafan said:


> OK Mr. Brave Man, I'm still waiting for your response because that "....ultimately we the people" response was sissy like.


Referring to the first three words of the US Constitution as "sissy like" tells me two things about you; First, the original point was way over your head. And second, you believe in the stay home and be scared approach.

My starting point is twofold.

1. Recent protests revealed Government officials and experts remained silent or allowed en masse activities, legally and/or illegally.

2. Important to understand who works for who.

Much can be accomplished from this point.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 8, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Let's isolate every community.  Ladera Ranch started with seven cases, now they are over fifty. Isolate now and stop the spread!  Isolate RSM, Mission Viejo, Lake Forest, Irvine, San Juan Capistrano, Newport Beach, Garden Grove, Costa Mesa, Hungtington Beach. , Tustin, Orange, Oceanside, Santa Ana, Anaheim, oh wait, that's where Disneyland is, people would protest and freak over that!  After all, we now have over 20,000 cases with over a 1,000 new cases every day. Hey and San Diego isn't far beyond at 18,000 cases.
> 
> You mean "Home of the Stupid"?


You made your own point.

...and @Darbfig gave you a facial.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 8, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Despite substantially more cases since we opened up May 11 or so, deaths are only up marginally. Pre open up our highest deaths per day was 28. We have hit 38 as the max now.
> 
> Cal is seeing the same thing. Large spikes in positive cases and yet deaths remain fairly flat.
> 
> ...


How many times do deaths have to double before you stop calling it flat?

Deaths have doubled in AZ since reopening.  When you say “deaths have fallen dramatically”, you only get that result by including


Desert Hound said:


> What will happen is this. I have friends in the medical field here in AZ. In March/April when AZ had nothing going on, they went to NY to help out.
> 
> If today certain states need help, I suspect strongly that medical professionals from states past the wave come out here to help. It is what we do.
> 
> ...


Apparently, your business involves a room full of people breathing the same air but not wearing masks.  

There is no way for you to run that business without people dying as a result.  

In other words, you are asking to be allowed to kill people to make a buck.

And complaining when the rest of us say no.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 8, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> LA vs OC now?  Please keeper mom, just please........  I know your very scared and are so many like you are scared of death.  Some are scared to get the virus and some are scared that t will win and some are scared of both and because their scared out of their minds, they have blocked the kids from living and others from living, all because their scared and full of fear.  The LA Health group 100% said go protest because it's essential or something like that.  Now you have more cases.  Here's where I'm at.  Either we all go on lock down and lose our jobs together or those who can and want to, go outside and live life.  This sucks!!!!


Okay


----------



## whatithink (Jul 8, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Italy and Spain have socialist health care systems and have far fewer resources available vs the US. Less beds, less equipment, less trained people, etc. So in this case an apples and oranges comparison.


They both have higher life expectancies than the US. Every developed country has "socialist" health care systems *except *the US.

Their problem was the surge and not being able to cope with it.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 8, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> You made your own point.
> 
> ...and @Darbfig gave you a facial.


So just a little over a month ago we had about 3,200 cases, now we have 20,000. So at that rate, by mid August we will have how many???


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 8, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> You made your own point.
> 
> ...and @Darbfig gave you a facial.


I was being sarcastic. Isolating whole communities won't work. It is everywhere. Duh!  But the cases are increasing rapidly, just look at OC.


----------



## Dummy (Jul 8, 2020)

I am afraid that people won’t think I am brave. I am going to drop my 6-year old off at soccer practice tonight to prove it.


----------



## sothpaw (Jul 8, 2020)

Dummy said:


> I am afraid that people won’t think I am brave. I am going to drop my 6-year old off at soccer practice tonight to prove it.


The State just shutdown all of youth sports effective immediately.


----------



## Dummy (Jul 8, 2020)

Oh, wait.  COVID-19 is no big deal so there is nothing to worry about.  So maybe dropping him off doesn’t make me brave.


----------



## messy (Jul 8, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Sure, if you pretend she didn't say this:
> 
> "New York was able to deal with capacity issues because they completely shut down and New Yorkers were scared."
> 
> We have an obvious difference of opinion on what Americans do. In fact, based on most posts I've seen of yours, we definitely have a difference of opinion on the exceptionalism of America.


Is that supposed to be responsive to my note about Americans.
Make sacrifices to beat the enemy.
Band together in that job.
That’s American exceptionalism.
Selfishness isn’t.
Listen and learn, son.


----------



## Dummy (Jul 8, 2020)

I am confused.


----------



## Dummy (Jul 8, 2020)

sothpaw said:


> The State just shutdown all of youth sports effective immediately.


Won’t that make me even braver?


----------



## ToonArmy (Jul 8, 2020)

Shutting down


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 8, 2020)

dad4 said:


> How many times do deaths have to double before you stop calling it flat?
> 
> Deaths have doubled in AZ since reopening.  When you say “deaths have fallen dramatically”, you only get that result by including
> 
> ...


Dude...or should I say dad4. You are always the Prophet of Doom. 1 to 2 months ago you assured us all that GA and FL were sending their residents across the Styx. That petered out and you don't mention them much anymore. 

Now you are on to AZ and if I recall correctly TX. 

It is always lag time, etc. you say.  Doom is upon us. And yet in the US deaths drop week by week. 

AZ is not going to turn into another NY/NY/IL. States that didn't get hit at the same time as back east will certainly experience more deaths now vs back in March/April? You say our deaths have doubled. OK...we went from 1k to less than 2k right now. That is since this whole thing started. It certainly does not seem we are going to see anything like what we saw early on back east. And I refer to AZ and the rest of the other states. 

The virus ripped through those eastern states in really just a matter of weeks and since then has gone away.

AZ has been open since May 11 or so. You are always talking lag time between positives and deaths. Our positives have risen steadily and fast since the reopening almost 2 months ago and yet deaths have risen on a per day basis minimally. Again pre opening up we were mid 20 to high 20 deaths per day. After almost 2 months of being open that number is mid 30 to high 30s.


----------



## timbuck (Jul 8, 2020)

ToonArmy said:


> Shutting down


Time for all of these "Players" to start "Scheduling pick up games" with their teammates again.  Remember to not wear anything with your club logo on it.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 8, 2020)

Underground soccer for some of you.  I'm out.  See ya!!!


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 8, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Time for all of these "Players" to start "Scheduling pick up games" with their teammates again.  Remember to not wear anything with your club logo on it.


The spies will find you.  I'm dead serious.  This is serious stuff going on.  I would just lay low and wait this out until Nov 3rd.  We will remember!!!


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 8, 2020)

whatithink said:


> Interesting article, but its not just about beds, i.e. from the article
> 
> _"While hospitals were able to add beds more quickly than experts realized they could, some other resources were harder to come by. Masks, gowns and other personal protective equipment were tough to get. So were ventilators. Anesthesia agents and dialysis medications were in short supply. And every additional bed meant the need for more doctors, nurses and respiratory therapists."_
> 
> ...


Just adding an article that came out 2 hours ago.









						As OC Coronavirus Hospitalizations Soar, Questions Over Ability to Handle Spike Surface
					

As Orange County’s Coronavirus cases continue to spike, worries over a lack of hospital staffing and resources to deal with rising hospitalizations are surfacing.




					voiceofoc.org


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 8, 2020)

ToonArmy said:


> Shutting down


Where did you find this?  I looked on the OC website and I couldn't find it.


----------



## lafalafa (Jul 8, 2020)

The camp workaround was just a hopefully ploy that even Cal south tried to exploit as one of the phases, amazing they jumped on that and announced return to play without clearance from the state.  Now you know how much they really care about players,  fees, CRL $$, scheduling without fields, and took out a huge PPP loan that all of us taxpayers will foot the bill for while there double and triple dipping, what a racket. 

 In accordance with California Department of Public Health direction, youth sports practices are postponed. https://bit.ly/YouthSportsPostponed





						OC Health Care Agency | Orange County California - Health Care Agency
					






					www.ochealthinfo.com


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 8, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Where did you find this?  I looked on the OC website and I couldn't find it.


I did find this article related to schools.  https://voiceofoc.org/2020/07/orange-county-school-districts-suspend-resumption-of-sports-programs/


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 8, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> The camp workaround was just a hopefully ploy that even Cal south tried to exploit as one of the phases, amazing they jumped on that and announced return to play without clearance from the state.  Now you know how much they really care about players,  fees, CRL $$, scheduling without fields, and took out a huge PPP loan that all of us taxpayers will foot the bill for while there double and triple dipping, what a racket.
> 
> In accordance with California Department of Public Health direction, youth sports practices are postponed. https://bit.ly/YouthSportsPostponed
> 
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## gkmom (Jul 8, 2020)

sothpaw said:


> The State just shutdown all of youth sports effective immediately.
> [/QUOTE





ToonArmy said:


> Shutting down


Anyone see anything come through from San Diego? I understand it's state wide, but haven't seen anything from SD yet


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 8, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Just adding an article that came out 2 hours ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm scared now and it has zero to do with getting the virus.  I just got word from another friend who hangs out with business owners that their all shutting their doors.  I mean that 100%.  Just wait Cali.  Love each other, please......Many tried to hang on but the news is not looking good in socal to run a mom or pop small business, bar, restaurant or any business for that matter.  It's literally impossible to run a small business in socal.  If little girls can;t pass a soccer ball, then were all in for a long haul.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 8, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I'm scared now and it has zero to do with getting the virus.  I just got word from another friend who hangs out with business owners that their all shutting their doors.  I mean that 100%.  Just wait Cali.  Love each other, please......Many tried to hang on but the news is not looking good in socal to run a mom or pop small business, bar, restaurant or any business for that matter.  It's literally impossible to run a small business in socal.  If little girls can;t pass a soccer ball, then were all in for a long haul.


Yeah I just got word my eldest's karate studio is shutting down.    Since they had opened gyms for adults, they were really hopeful they'd get clearance to open too and just do limited service with smaller distanced groups.  But it's pretty clear that isn't going to happen now.  Don't get why an adult gym is o.k. but the kid's karate studio isn't.  Seems like the governor just has it in for the kids.  They've been in business 20 years and kept on with zoom classes but it looks like this is it.

On the other hand the pub and sushi restaurant down our street converted to all outdoor seating.  It's nice and gives the niehgobrhood a sense of community. Hope they hang on but the kids aren't hanging out at the pub.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 8, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Don't get why an adult gym is o.k. but the kid's karate studio isn't.  Seems like the governor just has it in for the kids.  They've been in business 20 years and kept on with zoom classes but it looks like this is it.


They don't vote?


----------



## Glitterhater (Jul 8, 2020)

Not sure if this is the place to ask this, but are any of your players ready to quit? Mine used to love practice-never wanted to miss. But with all the new rules, the drama surrounding what clubs can do what, who's tattling on who, etc, she is asking to sit this season out. I'm super bummed for her, she's been playing soccer since she was 5! (She's an 07.) 
I feel lame being sad about it but damn, it all just sucks!


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 8, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Not sure if this is the place to ask this, but are any of your players ready to quit? Mine used to love practice-never wanted to miss. But with all the new rules, the drama surrounding what clubs can do what, who's tattling on who, etc, she is asking to sit this season out. I'm super bummed for her, she's been playing soccer since she was 5! (She's an 07.)
> I feel lame being sad about it but damn, it all just sucks!


They start quitting around 13-14 years old.   This covid thing is converting a youth generation of complacency.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 8, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Northbay Healthcare Fairfield & Vacaville.


Liberal haven.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 8, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Facts are LA is the massive problem; read, study and go right to the root cause.


What is the sanctuary city full of?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 8, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Liberal haven.


Lot’s of conservatives too.  Home of Travis AFB and the Vacaville Penitentiary that housed Manson.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 8, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Lot’s of conservatives too.  Home of Travis AFB and the Vacaville Penitentiary that housed Manson.


OC is now the 3rd highest in terms of covid cases and definitely plenty of conservatives.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 8, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Lot’s of conservatives too.  Home of Travis AFB and the Vacaville Penitentiary that housed Manson.


My best friend lived in Davis and worked in Vacaville, beautiful place.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 8, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> OC is now the 3rd highest in terms of covid cases and definitely plenty of conservatives.


You remember the 2018 election?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 8, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Not sure if this is the place to ask this, but are any of your players ready to quit? Mine used to love practice-never wanted to miss. But with all the new rules, the drama surrounding what clubs can do what, who's tattling on who, etc, she is asking to sit this season out. I'm super bummed for her, she's been playing soccer since she was 5! (She's an 07.)
> I feel lame being sad about it but damn, it all just sucks!


My kid is just doing other fun stuff.  She will miss soccer and will always wonder all the what ifs.  She really loves soccer and will be ready to play some day hopefully.  I was all depressed and i know why.  I loved sports so much as a kid and it literally kept me in school and I just feel sad for the kids.  I also feel sad for all the businesses closing down in Cali.


----------



## chiefs (Jul 8, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Not sure if this is the place to ask this, but are any of your players ready to quit? Mine used to love practice-never wanted to miss. But with all the new rules, the drama surrounding what clubs can do what, who's tattling on who, etc, she is asking to sit this season out. I'm super bummed for her, she's been playing soccer since she was 5! (She's an 07.)
> I feel lame being sad about it but damn, it all just sucks!


Why are we as citizens giving these morons power?  Just live ur life, be happy,


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 8, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Why are we as citizens giving these morons power?  Just live ur life, be happy,


Because people like getting bitch slapped by others........


----------



## chiefs (Jul 8, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Yeah I just got word my eldest's karate studio is shutting down.    Since they had opened gyms for adults, they were really hopeful they'd get clearance to open too and just do limited service with smaller distanced groups.  But it's pretty clear that isn't going to happen now.  Don't get why an adult gym is o.k. but the kid's karate studio isn't.  Seems like the governor just has it in for the kids.  They've been in business 20 years and kept on with zoom classes but it looks like this is it.
> 
> On the other hand the pub and sushi restaurant down our street converted to all outdoor seating.  It's nice and gives the niehgobrhood a sense of community. Hope they hang on but the kids aren't hanging out at the pub.


Feel real bad for small businesses.  
What’s incredible is Newsome and his winery business is left open.  throwing salt in the massive wounds...








						California governor shuts down wineries in 19 counties but his is open
					

California Governor Gavin Newsom on Wednesday ordered 19 counties to shut down their wineries due to the rise in the number of cases of COVID-19, but his own in Napa Valley remains open.




					www.google.com


----------



## espola (Jul 8, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Feel real bad for small businesses.
> What’s incredible is Newsome and his winery business is left open.  throwing salt in the massive wounds...
> 
> 
> ...


Where in Newsom's order does it specifically say that his winery and tasting room were not affected?


----------



## espola (Jul 8, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Not sure if this is the place to ask this, but are any of your players ready to quit? Mine used to love practice-never wanted to miss. But with all the new rules, the drama surrounding what clubs can do what, who's tattling on who, etc, she is asking to sit this season out. I'm super bummed for her, she's been playing soccer since she was 5! (She's an 07.)
> I feel lame being sad about it but damn, it all just sucks!


They don't have to quit.  They can work on those 10,000 hours of skill drills that world-class players need.  Try an hour or so of boring old juggling, and it's not necessary to go for a high count of consecutive juggles, just work on getting the small parts of the motions right.  Most houses have a corner or wall where a player can practice bounce passes to himself, working on getting skillful touches with every portion of the foot and lower leg.  If that is too boring, break out the FIFA 2020 game and work on offensive and defensive strategy.  Another really boring option would be to analyze recorded games and chart out the passes that led to every goal, or the good defensive plays that prevented a goal.


----------



## Dof3 (Jul 8, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Thanks!


In your inquiries into the COVID issues, have you come across any actual data or studies indicating that outdoor youth sports are actually resulting in any increased risk of transmission, whether by or among kids or parents?  We know that this shutdown has not been good for kids.  My kids' teams tonight were so down about things being suspended again.  Their parents were down.  I am not an unreasonable person.  If there is science that shows that these activities are resulting in people getting sick in some disproportionate way, then I can accept that and explain it to my kids.  Absent some empirical support showing that outdoor youth sports are actually a problem, then this feels like more incoherent, reactionary nonsense policy to me.  So, please, share the data on transmissions through youth sports.  Or through kids generally.  I am sorry if I missed it in an earlier post.  If there is none, then why are we allowing this to be done to our kids?  Kids need activity and socialization.  Humans need it.  We all know that.  

When experts are telling us that a vaccine may or may not be available for 12-18 months or ever, life in America is supposed to look like this for how long?  And don't say November 4 because I am trying not to be that cynical.  So, how long?  As a result of a virus that kills less than 1% of the population?


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 9, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> In your inquiries into the COVID issues, have you come across any actual data or studies indicating that outdoor youth sports are actually resulting in any increased risk of transmission, whether by or among kids or parents?  We know that this shutdown has not been good for kids.  My kids' teams tonight were so down about things being suspended again.  Their parents were down.  I am not an unreasonable person.  If there is science that shows that these activities are resulting in people getting sick in some disproportionate way, then I can accept that and explain it to my kids.  Absent some empirical support showing that outdoor youth sports are actually a problem, then this feels like more incoherent, reactionary nonsense policy to me.  So, please, share the data on transmissions through youth sports.  Or through kids generally.  I am sorry if I missed it in an earlier post.  If there is none, then why are we allowing this to be done to our kids?  Kids need activity and socialization.  Humans need it.  We all know that.
> 
> When experts are telling us that a vaccine may or may not be available for 12-18 months or ever, life in America is supposed to look like this for how long?  And don't say November 4 because I am trying not to be that cynical.  So, how long?  As a result of a virus that kills less than 1% of the population?


I have done my own analysis of risk on sports outside which is why I have always believed there was no good reason for soccer to not start as I have stated multiple times.  Tonight after finding out the announcement about no youth sports I looked at the CDC guidance.  All of the protocols put in place for soccer teams made it a "Low Risk" activity.  Soccer teams even put more protocols in place than what the CDC called for to make it low risk.  This action has nothing to do with science.  What it has to do with is some ding dong reporter that decided to do an investigation for no good reason which made the State realize they did not issue guidance.  Each county health approved it so the fact the State health is pulling it so they can issue guidance because they were late to the game is unconscionable given how many kids are impacted by this ludicrous reason.


----------



## espola (Jul 9, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I have done my own analysis of risk on sports outside which is why I have always believed there was no good reason for soccer to not start as I have stated multiple times.  Tonight after finding out the announcement about no youth sports I looked at the CDC guidance.  All of the protocols put in place for soccer teams made it a "Low Risk" activity.  Soccer teams even put more protocols in place than what the CDC called for to make it low risk.  This action has nothing to do with science.  What it has to do with is some ding dong reporter that decided to do an investigation for no good reason which made the State realize they did not issue guidance.  Each county health approved it so the fact the State health is pulling it so they can issue guidance because they were late to the game is unconscionable given how many kids are impacted by this ludicrous reason.


Ding dong reporter?


----------



## Chalklines (Jul 9, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> In your inquiries into the COVID issues, have you come across any actual data or studies indicating that outdoor youth sports are actually resulting in any increased risk of transmission, whether by or among kids or parents?  We know that this shutdown has not been good for kids.  My kids' teams tonight were so down about things being suspended again.  Their parents were down.  I am not an unreasonable person.  If there is science that shows that these activities are resulting in people getting sick in some disproportionate way, then I can accept that and explain it to my kids.  Absent some empirical support showing that outdoor youth sports are actually a problem, then this feels like more incoherent, reactionary nonsense policy to me.  So, please, share the data on transmissions through youth sports.  Or through kids generally.  I am sorry if I missed it in an earlier post.  If there is none, then why are we allowing this to be done to our kids?  Kids need activity and socialization.  Humans need it.  We all know that.
> 
> When experts are telling us that a vaccine may or may not be available for 12-18 months or ever, life in America is supposed to look like this for how long?  And don't say November 4 because I am trying not to be that cynical.  So, how long?  As a result of a virus that kills less than 1% of the population?


Target dates been November 3rd from the start.

Since protests are still allowed why can't clubs start the Let Kids Play Movement? You can protest on public land which opens up the parks. Teams can still continue phase 1 of calsouths requirements of social distancing and the kids can all bring 1 sign to practice. Your basicly kicking the ball around to demonstrate cause. It seems just as logical like opening as a camp. plus the media's already told us the virus magically has no tracers to these gatherings.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

Today will be interesting as just about every new day is full of surprises.  I will say this.  I have many moderate friends who tend to vote for Dems and that is why OC kind of turn blue.  These middle of the road left leaning folks with lots of money are now very pissed.  Just watch folks.  Money talks!!! Oh, another sad business story.  I keep in touch with old clients I used to help.  One guy owned a successful AC biz in the IE.  It's him and three of his techs.  This is the time of year to make money, when it's hot!!!  PPP he got in April is all dried up.  One of his techs got the corona and the other techs are now super afraid and one just quit and got a raise and the other two told boss man they will let him know this morning if they want to risk their lives helping people have cool air. His schedule is booked for the week and I bet he has to call everyone with the bad news.  He's done imo, I can hear it in his voice.  Worked his ass off to save and start his own AC biz a few years ago.  I believe he will shut her down and move.  It was already next to impossible to run a biz in Cali but now it's impossible, for reals!!!  So handyman guy or plumber dude has to go into someone's house where the disease lives and risk their lives and the owner carries all the liability?  Ya, no thanks!!!  This is a complete disaster and folks will be held accountable!!!
BTW, this is not on t.  t has other issues and mistakes but Cali's decisions are all on the leadership of this state and county.  Leaders lead and followers follow.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> Ding dong reporter?


Some reporter up in Sacramento did some digging over the 4th, put the state health authorities on the spot when they had been turning a blind eye with a wink and a nod on sports practices, it got caught up in the politics of what was going on and it caused them to issue “clarifying instructions” shutting down everything.  I noted it back last weekend and someone here was able to find the article and posted it. In other circumstances they would have clarified things but then the rona roared and the schools debate flared up....


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 9, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Today will be interesting as just about every new day is full of surprises.  I will say this.  I have many moderate friends who tend to vote for Dems and that is why OC kind of turn blue.  These middle of the road left leaning folks with lots of money are now very pissed.  Just watch folks.  Money talks!!! Oh, another sad business story.  I keep in touch with old clients I used to help.  One guy owned a successful AC biz in the IE.  It's him and three of his techs.  This is the time of year to make money, when it's hot!!!  PPP he got in April is all dried up.  One of his techs got the corona and the other techs are now super afraid and one just quit and got a raise and the other two told boss man they will let him know this morning if they want to risk their lives helping people have cool air. His schedule is booked for the week and I bet he has to call everyone with the bad news.  He's done imo, I can hear it in his voice.  Worked his ass off to save and start his own AC biz a few years ago.  I believe he will shut her down and move.  It was already next to impossible to run a biz in Cali but now it's impossible, for reals!!!  So handyman guy or plumber dude has to go into someone's house where the disease lives and risk their lives and the owner carries all the liability?  Ya, no thanks!!!  This is a complete disaster and folks will be held accountable!!!
> BTW, this is not on t.  t has other issues and mistakes but Cali's decisions are all on the leadership of this state and county.  Leaders lead and followers follow.


I gotta say I’m noticing this in the vc too.  Lots of left leaning people who hate the t and look down on his supporters but who are livid at newsom and the blues particularly for doing all this while letting the protests go wild.  Lots of people who I never thought would own a gun getting them too.  Even some who lectured me when I took my own kids up to the alisal and they learned how to just do air rifles. 

But the same thing is going on in red states too.  Lots of rs upset at t and their leaders too. The panic v deniers gulf is wide and doesn’t necessarily align with party (though it does a surprising amount).


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 9, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Some reporter up in Sacramento did some digging over the 4th, put the state health authorities on the spot when they had been turning a blind eye with a wink and a nod on sports practices, it got caught up in the politics of what was going on and it caused them to issue “clarifying instructions” shutting down everything.  I noted it back last weekend and someone here was able to find the article and posted it. In other circumstances they would have clarified things but then the rona roared and the schools debate flared up....


Yah Gavi doesn’t really look like the athlete type so it’s probably pretty easy for him to flex his political muscles to keep kids from any sense of normalcy in their life.  But he will pander to the BLM movement and allow anyone supporting it to hold mass demonstrations. They are all of voting age or will be come election time.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 9, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I gotta say I’m noticing this in the vc too.  Lots of left leaning people who hate the t and look down on his supporters but who are livid at newsom and the blues particularly for doing all this while letting the protests go wild.  Lots of people who I never thought would own a gun getting them too.  Even some who lectured me when I took my own kids up to the alisal and they learned how to just do air rifles.
> 
> But the same thing is going on in red states too.  Lots of rs upset at t and their leaders too. The panic v deniers gulf is wide and doesn’t necessarily align with party (though it does a surprising amount).


Ideal times for a 3rd party to rise up.....to bad it will never happen.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> Ding dong reporter?


This is what started the whole thing.  I really don't understand why she was investigating this....I believe the State would have been none the wiser if she didn't start questioning them.








						CBS Sacramento - Breaking News, Sports, Weather & Community Journalism
					

Latest breaking news from CBS Sacramento.




					sacramento.cbslocal.com


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Jul 9, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> This is what started the whole thing.  I really don't understand why she was investigating this....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because a parent/coach from an opposing club called in to report that another club was practicing indoors and took a picture of players congregated outside the front entrance. That club in fact was not actually violating any rules and was operating within the guidance they’d received from the county, but the local news did a story that including running the picture and interviewing the person that called the media.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> This is what started the whole thing.  I really don't understand why she was investigating this....I believe the State would have been none the wiser if she didn't start questioning them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fear tactics is what started all this!!!


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 9, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> This is what started the whole thing.  I really don't understand why she was investigating this....I believe the State would have been none the wiser if she didn't start questioning them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Karen won!


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Karen won!


Snitch hotline:  411, whats your gossip

Karen: I'm walking with my mask on over at Great Park.  I see kids playing and and and their not wearing a mask and I actually saw one of them 4 ft away and not doing 6 feet.  I need help now!!!

Snitch hotline:  Thank you so much. We will be there in 3 minutes.  Thank you for calling 

Karen: Oh good, we can;t have this virus spread to my parents.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Ideal times for a 3rd party to rise up.....to bad it will never happen.


t seems like a 3rd party to me.  He was a Dem money wise and then he switched to the R side because he saw all the candidates and took a chance and kicked their asses.  Joe will do whatever he is told to do.  t does not do that and that is why I see him as a true 3rd party candidate.  A  true disrupter and chief and let me say this, he is hated by both Dems and Repubs.  DC hates him too.....We all can see how the career politician does not like t at all.


----------



## Glitterhater (Jul 9, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> Because a parent/coach from an opposing club called in to report that another club was practicing indoors and took a picture of players congregated outside the front entrance. That club in fact was not actually violating any rules and was operating within the guidance they’d received from the county, but the local news did a story that including running the picture and interviewing the person that called the media.


Yes, exactly this. This happened in my area and what they didn't show was that each girl was more than 6 ft apart and they had large, double doors rolled up. Plus they were not the only club doing it, it was 100% personal and political.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

@Grace T and only for Grace T.  I wrote this over in the off topic section in response to Messy thinking t is a spy for Russia.  Disregard that part.  Can you help me if it's true that as a parent in Cali for 2020-2021 school year I can't get money to home school or Charter school?  Thanks

So Vlad wants us to have freedom of choice in what schools our kids can go too and what is being taught to them? Vlad wants all of our schools open this fall and make sure sports are being played? Check this out. I called my other pal who teaches special needs in the IE. His wife has home schooled all three of their children from birth. Yes, they're Christian based curriculum and all that but that is their choice. They get $2800 a kid to teach them each year. They use that money for books, dance and many things they deem helpful in kiddos education. Field trips with mom and all that. The dad saw all the brainwashing early on in his career and wanted a balance education with a Christian theme and not just the big bang or how white people are the devil and this country is evil and basically since your a mix of white and asian kid, your evil too because your papa is white and probably married your mother because he is a racist and wants full control of his asian wife. Their oldest dd just graduated and got a full ride in dance at Biloa btw. Back to the reason why I called him the other day. If online is all we get for my dd Jr year, I wanted that $2800 and we will do the teaching ourselves. I asked him how I can get that dough and he said, "you cant." I asked, why? He said Governor added a little something something three weeks ago in the rule book that keeps all the money in each district now from the previous year. Meaning, I can home school or even go charter, but no money follows me. Nothing like adding to the rules mid season before election. I don;t like it one bit. Anyone else find this odd?


----------



## lafalafa (Jul 9, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Yes, exactly this. This happened in my area and what they didn't show was that each girl was more than 6 ft apart and they had large, double doors rolled up. Plus they were not the only club doing it, it was 100% personal and political.


Youth sports under the camp guidance was a loophole that never real existed in the first place, it's was just convenient to assume it was workable.  Obviously it wasn't vented by the state so they have been clarifying that with the cities or people that have been inquiring.

Ask your Club or Cal South why they don't do diligence before suggestion proceeding. Flase start or whatever the case is not a good idea to play with kids emotions. 

Youth sports will return but maybe this time people wont jump the gun and be a little bit more cautious about the way they go about things.  Insurance generally doesn't cover anybody for activities that are not legal or currently permitted, all the waivers don't change that  so proceed at your own risk.

Overall I'm sad for the kids because they deserve to be able participation in outdoor sports and all the hoops everyone has to or will have to jump through seem unfair so I'm urging my local heath people and state gov reps to get the youth sports guidance done so we can have a real return to play.

In the meantime parks and beaches are open so kids can still play & practice. My older player has been training ever other day just about, takes the portable goals and cones with and they have fun.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Youth sports under the camp guidance was a loophole that never real existed in the first place, it's was just convenient to assume it was workable.  Obviously it wasn't vented by the state so they have been clarifying that with the cities or people that have been inquiring.
> 
> Ask your Club or Cal South why they don't do diligence before suggestions proceeding. Flase start or whatever the case is not a good idea to play with kids emotions.
> 
> ...


The old system of pay to play is over and will never return and that is very good.  This needed some cleaning and it's getting cleaned up as we speak. Why dont one of the spies go and watch the kids play at the beach.  This is a joke!!!


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 9, 2020)

This is not going to stop parents from taking kids to do private lessons, or just go to the park and kick the ball.  If people can go to gyms and places like Walmart or Home Depot, There’s no reason why we can’t get our kids to do some practice drills with a small group of friends.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 9, 2020)

MacDre said:


> The hospitals in NorCal were laying folks off.  My wife volunteered to take a month of vacation so others more in need wouldn’t be laid off.
> You see, the good thing about growing up poor, is that I don’t trip on material things.  As long as I have my health and can get whatever I lose back.  Man makes money, money doesn’t make the man.
> 
> Are you to good to eat beans, rice, & cornbread until things get better.  Or do you want some cheese to go with that WINE?


That's funny... a black man accusing someone else of "whining".


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> This is not going to stop parents from taking kids to do private lessons, or just go to the park and kick the ball.  If people can go to gyms and places like Walmart or Home Depot, There’s no reason why we can’t get our kids to do some practice drills with a small group of friends.


Lawsuits and more lawsuits.  This has to blow up and all the healthy clubs and all these real good coaches like Coach Doug and Coach Buck need to create a new way to get the girls to scrimmage.  I'm all in and my dd just wants to play soccer games with friends.  We need to start a grass roots.  Maybe have Varsity level and JV.  Mix the girls all up and go have fun.  We ((the girls)) can go play soccer you guys.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> Where in Newsom's order does it specifically say that his winery and tasting room were not affected?


Says they're open 10-4 everyday.


----------



## lafalafa (Jul 9, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> This is not going to stop parents from taking kids to do private lessons, or just go to the park and kick the ball.  If people can go to gyms and places like Walmart or Home Depot, There’s no reason why we can’t get our kids to do some practice drills with a small group of friends.


Nor it should'nt there are several different ways to keep participating, practicing, having fun.  My kids played pick up soccer for years before even having a coach or knowing about organized sports.

Pick-up soccer on private property or private facilities should still be a option I would think and there's parks and beaches also.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 9, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> @Grace T and only for Grace T.  I wrote this over in the off topic section in response to Messy thinking t is a spy for Russia.  Disregard that part.  Can you help me if it's true that as a parent in Cali for 2020-2021 school year I can't get money to home school or


Sorry me and my ilk do private school.  The way things are headed and since newsom seems especially wanting to give the finger to t I think we may have paid for some very expensive online schooling. At least they’ll have in person instruction all 5 days and can unwind it fast after the election (yes Im there already...I’ve become that cynical but I also think things will break in SoCal now by mid to late september).   Still not worth what we paid for. Parents were already up in arms about things at our school. The hellstorm that’s about to land on the school admin is not pretty. 

 It wouldn’t surprise me though. The budget was crafted at the last minute to prevent a train wreck in the local school districts.  Lots of pain is deferred until 2021-2022 and the assumption is a Biden government will give them a massive bailout. So it wouldn’t shock me if they took out new home school money which would torch the budget if everyone in well off districts did it (looking at you oc). 

Sons school soccer camp cancelled today. At least he won’t have to have a Covid test.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 9, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> In your inquiries into the COVID issues, have you come across any actual data or studies indicating that outdoor youth sports are actually resulting in any increased risk of transmission, whether by or among kids or parents?  We know that this shutdown has not been good for kids.  My kids' teams tonight were so down about things being suspended again.  Their parents were down.  I am not an unreasonable person.  If there is science that shows that these activities are resulting in people getting sick in some disproportionate way, then I can accept that and explain it to my kids.  Absent some empirical support showing that outdoor youth sports are actually a problem, then this feels like more incoherent, reactionary nonsense policy to me.  So, please, share the data on transmissions through youth sports.  Or through kids generally.  I am sorry if I missed it in an earlier post.  If there is none, then why are we allowing this to be done to our kids?  Kids need activity and socialization.  Humans need it.  We all know that.
> 
> When experts are telling us that a vaccine may or may not be available for 12-18 months or ever, life in America is supposed to look like this for how long?  And don't say November 4 because I am trying not to be that cynical.  So, how long?  As a result of a virus that kills less than 1% of the population?


The closest I’ve found is a cluster on a high school baseball team.









						8 COVID-19 cases connected to Newberg baseball team
					

At least 8 people from a Newberg baseball team tested positive for COVID-19 after playing in a tournament in Roseburg.




					www.koin.com
				




No word on whether the team also got together for a party or movie night.  (we don’t know if it was outdoor or indoor transmission)

I haven’t been able to find reports of an elementary age cluster of any kind- indoor or outdoor.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 9, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Karen won!


Dig deeper. Her kid got cut from the 3rd team last year. She is bitter about soccer now. 


Just kidding


----------



## dad4 (Jul 9, 2020)

Also a 10 year old case from a basketball tournament in Missouri.









						Girl tests positive for COVID-19 after playing in basketball tournament :: WRAL.com
					

A mom in Missouri says her daughter tested positive for COVID-19 after playing in a basketball tournament.




					www.wral.com


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 9, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I have done my own analysis of risk on sports outside which is why I have always believed there was no good reason for soccer to not start as I have stated multiple times.  Tonight after finding out the announcement about no youth sports I looked at the CDC guidance.  All of the protocols put in place for soccer teams made it a "Low Risk" activity.  Soccer teams even put more protocols in place than what the CDC called for to make it low risk.  This action has nothing to do with science.  What it has to do with is some ding dong reporter that decided to do an investigation for no good reason which made the State realize they did not issue guidance.  Each county health approved it so the fact the State health is pulling it so they can issue guidance because they were late to the game is unconscionable given how many kids are impacted by this ludicrous reason.


Just to add something new to the mix, saw on the news this morning that covid may cause brain damage. Patients who have recovered are experiencing neurological problems.  Hope it is temporary! This would make sense because of the ACE2 receptors in the the brain along with other organs.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 9, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Also a 10 year old case from a basketball tournament in Missouri.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's also been some cases of transmission in camps (I think Arkansas and Georgia).  Yes, those were sleep away camps so kids basically living together.  But it's also clear there isn't 0 transmission.  Even if we get  to reopen the schools (which is LA, OC and Ventura Counties isn't looking too good right now), they are going to get constantly reclosed because some kid catches it from his parents and everyone has to quarantine.  We're really at the point where either we just say to hell with it and accept the risks, or we don't (and California seems to be saying we don't).  The experts don't want to say that, so they've handed down a bunch of rules which are unworkable and no one can meet, which is why everyone is spinning their wheels, and why t jumped into the fray and the CDC responded by just confusing things even more.

The plans to reopen the Thatcher and Cate boarding schools are interesting.  No day schoolers will be allowed.  You have to board.  Students will be hard shut and isolated on campus until thanksgiving as will a lot of the teachers and admin who are moving on campus.  They don't say, though, what happens to the service workers (kitchen workers, cleaning staff, security, horse groomers).  At a very minimum they'll be vets coming in and out of the Thatcher to care for the horses so not sure how tight that bubble can be, or if the state will sign off on their plans.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 9, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Even if we get to reopen the schools (which is LA, OC and Ventura Counties isn't looking too good right now), they are going to get constantly reclosed because some kid catches it from his parents and everyone has to quarantine. We're really at the point where either we just say to hell with it and accept the risks, or we don't (and California seems to be saying we don't). The experts don't want to say that, so they've handed down a bunch of rules which are unworkable and no one can meet, which is why everyone is spinning their wheels, and why t jumped into the fray and the CDC responded by just confusing things even more.


It isn't just schools. We see it with biz. Some employee gets it and the place shuts down for some deep cleaning. 

You cannot live like this. 

The views from Cate are nice. My DD has done some One Soccer Camps there in the past.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jul 9, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Just to add something new to the mix, saw on the news this morning that covid may cause brain damage. Patients who have recovered are experiencing neurological problems.  Hope it is temporary! This would make sense because of the ACE2 receptors in the the brain along with other organs.


Interesting....I wonder if they will find out the neurological problems are related.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 9, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> There's also been some cases of transmission in camps (I think Arkansas and Georgia).  Yes, those were sleep away camps so kids basically living together.  But it's also clear there isn't 0 transmission.  Even if we get  to reopen the schools (which is LA, OC and Ventura Counties isn't looking too good right now), they are going to get constantly reclosed because some kid catches it from his parents and everyone has to quarantine.  We're really at the point where either we just say to hell with it and accept the risks, or we don't (and California seems to be saying we don't).  The experts don't want to say that, so they've handed down a bunch of rules which are unworkable and no one can meet, which is why everyone is spinning their wheels, and why t jumped into the fray and the CDC responded by just confusing things even more.
> 
> The plans to reopen the Thatcher and Cate boarding schools are interesting.  No day schoolers will be allowed.  You have to board.  Students will be hard shut and isolated on campus until thanksgiving as will a lot of the teachers and admin who are moving on campus.  They don't say, though, what happens to the service workers (kitchen workers, cleaning staff, security, horse groomers).  At a very minimum they'll be vets coming in and out of the Thatcher to care for the horses so not sure how tight that bubble can be, or if the state will sign off on their plans.


age of kids at the sleepaway camp clusters?  The ones I have seen are mostly HS.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> Where in Newsom's order does it specifically say that his winery and tasting room were not affected?


Magoo strikes again!  Affected, yes....however his Winery, PlumpJack was the only tasting room that was open while all others were closed by the ordinance.  This isn’t hard to find if your lazy ass cares to look rather than question!


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 9, 2020)

dad4 said:


> age of kids at the sleepaway camp clusters?  The ones I have seen are mostly HS.


Can't find the article now but IIRC the median was middle schoolers.  Not too many younger elementary school kids do sleep away nor older teens (unless they are counselors)


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Just to add something new to the mix, s*aw on the news this morning that covid may cause brain damage*. Patients who have recovered are experiencing neurological problems.  Hope it is temporary! This would make sense because of the ACE2 receptors in the the brain along with other organs.


I hope you sleep well at night.  I will let me friend know that he might have brain damage now when he let's me know he's positive.  Thanks for the information.  BTW, if that is true, then we all need to go inside now.  Brain damage for the first repsonders and risk takers and everyone else can stay home so they live?  This is so whacko bird BS!!!!  I also heard some woman who got the virus when she was prego had a Bat Baby.  Half bat and human.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 9, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Can't find the article now but IIRC the median was middle schoolers.  Not too many younger elementary school kids do sleep away nor older teens (unless they are counselors)


church sleep-away camp is often HS.  I’ll look for articles.


----------



## futboldad1 (Jul 9, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I hope you sleep well at night.


Exactly..... their kid didn't make an ECNL roster and now likely wants to quit the game since her friends are going to play on without her....... therefore he/she wants all of youth soccer shut down for ever more...... pathetic


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 9, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Just to add something new to the mix, saw on the news this morning that covid may cause brain damage. Patients who have recovered are experiencing neurological problems.  Hope it is temporary! This would make sense because of the ACE2 receptors in the the brain along with other organs.


Is that mean that you already had covid?


----------



## espola (Jul 9, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Magoo strikes again!  Affected, yes....however his Winery, PlumpJack was the only tasting room that was open while all others were closed by the ordinance.  This isn’t hard to find if your lazy ass cares to look rather than question!


The only one?


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 9, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Magoo strikes again!  Affected, yes....however his Winery, PlumpJack was the only tasting room that was open while all others were closed by the ordinance.  This isn’t hard to find if your lazy ass cares to look rather than question!


Sounds like a great place for a protest. BYOR (Bring your own Riedel), and be ready to pour your own. Bonus points for brining your own corkscrew. Do they have any statues? Asking for a friend.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 9, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Sounds like a great place for a protest. BYOR (Bring your own Riedel), and be ready to pour your own. Bonus points for brining your own corkscrew. Do they have any statues? Asking for a friend.


I don’t think so, but his surrogate family, the Getty’s, may have a few!


----------



## Dof3 (Jul 9, 2020)

Listen to what we are saying.  Maybe 10 kids on a baseball team in [Other State], maybe a few kids from a camp in [Other State], and - let's be generous - 25 kids in California from a soccer practice, caught a virus that is 99%+ unlikely to kill them or even make them seriously ill.  So, a few hundred thousand kids in California alone are now restricted from organized physical activity - outside, socially distanced, which is ironic since the virus is more likely to be more serious with people who are seriously out of shape.  Good plan.  

We are supposedly now waiting for a vaccine (when did that happen????  I thought we were bending the curve so as not to overrun medical capacity - which we are not doing!), and a vaccine may be ~50% or 60% effective, maybe more, maybe less.  If I had a product today that I could market that would make the world's population under 65 years old 98%+ unlikely to die from this virus, I expect I could sell it for a TRILLION dollars.  Guess what? I could do that with a placebo because that is the way it works with NOTHING.  WHAT IN THE HELL ARE WE DOING?????????


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 9, 2020)

Wow the wheels really are coming off of everything.  Got word now our school has suspended all practices including DYS upcoming soccer camp and despite a being a private school doesn't think on campus learning will take place in September, at least at the start, but still wants us to be ready just in case and they want to, but LA County health might not let them.

So I've taken my own advice and we are leaving, probably for Nevada at this point, and we'll relook at it in fall if/when schools reopen.  But that's raised some issues too.  First I need to transfer my allergy shots but they've been giving me the run around for the transfer given that I haven't been set up yet in Nevada....my dad an MD allergist was willing to help out but they are giving us the run around and prepandemic procedures like a transfer meeting/check up don't make sense at this point.  More interestingly, I have to make arrangements for a COVID test, in case the schools do open back up, since our private school will require them.  But our ped doesn't want to issue the order since it's not medically necessary.  Ventura county doesn't want to give it to us (since we won't be residing in Ventura county).  And LA County doesn't think what the school is doing is very good considering the backlog in exams right now.  My son's friend needs an MRI and they are requiring a COVID test too, but having similar difficulties.  So it's impossible to arrange now and we may need to pop back for a few days IF the schools reopen.  It's all such a mess and people are so close to the breaking point.  Now Faucci is urging California back into hard lockdowns, and I guarantee that will not go well particularly after they said boo about the protests.  

Later gators.  Everyone staff safe!


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 9, 2020)

I just watched a school board / parent conference. Disappointing, but seems most people want to hide at home. Here is the video. Parents seems pretty emotional.


----------



## chiefs (Jul 9, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Wow the wheels really are coming off of everything.  Got word now our school has suspended all practices including DYS upcoming soccer camp and despite a being a private school doesn't think on campus learning will take place in September, at least at the start, but still wants us to be ready just in case and they want to, but LA County health might not let them.
> 
> So I've taken my own advice and we are leaving, probably for Nevada at this point, and we'll relook at it in fall if/when schools reopen.  But that's raised some issues too.  First I need to transfer my allergy shots but they've been giving me the run around for the transfer given that I haven't been set up yet in Nevada....my dad an MD allergist was willing to help out but they are giving us the run around and prepandemic procedures like a transfer meeting/check up don't make sense at this point.  More interestingly, I have to make arrangements for a COVID test, in case the schools do open back up, since our private school will require them.  But our ped doesn't want to issue the order since it's not medically necessary.  Ventura county doesn't want to give it to us (since we won't be residing in Ventura county).  And LA County doesn't think what the school is doing is very good considering the backlog in exams right now.  My son's friend needs an MRI and they are requiring a COVID test too, but having similar difficulties.  So it's impossible to arrange now and we may need to pop back for a few days IF the schools reopen.  It's all such a mess and people are so close to the breaking point.  Now Faucci is urging California back into hard lockdowns, and I guarantee that will not go well particularly after they said boo about the protests.
> 
> Later gators.  Everyone staff safe!


Gavin Newsome is a horrible horrible individual and not any leader, he needs to be recalled effective immediately....


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> They don't have to quit.  They can work on those 10,000 hours of skill drills that world-class players need.  Try an hour or so of boring old juggling, and it's not necessary to go for a high count of consecutive juggles, just work on getting the small parts of the motions right.  Most houses have a corner or wall where a player can practice bounce passes to himself, working on getting skillful touches with every portion of the foot and lower leg.  If that is too boring, break out the FIFA 2020 game and work on offensive and defensive strategy.  Another really boring option would be to analyze recorded games and chart out the passes that led to every goal, or the good defensive plays that prevented a goal.


Brilliant! All forms of isolation, that'll do wonders for their social well-being and mental health.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 9, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> In your inquiries into the COVID issues, have you come across any actual data or studies indicating that outdoor youth sports are actually resulting in any increased risk of transmission, whether by or among kids or parents?  We know that this shutdown has not been good for kids.  My kids' teams tonight were so down about things being suspended again.  Their parents were down.  I am not an unreasonable person.  If there is science that shows that these activities are resulting in people getting sick in some disproportionate way, then I can accept that and explain it to my kids.  Absent some empirical support showing that outdoor youth sports are actually a problem, then this feels like more incoherent, reactionary nonsense policy to me.  So, please, share the data on transmissions through youth sports.  Or through kids generally.  I am sorry if I missed it in an earlier post.  If there is none, then why are we allowing this to be done to our kids?  Kids need activity and socialization.  Humans need it.  We all know that.
> 
> When experts are telling us that a vaccine may or may not be available for 12-18 months or ever, life in America is supposed to look like this for how long?  And don't say November 4 because I am trying not to be that cynical.  So, how long?  As a result of a virus that kills less than 1% of the population?


Maybe time to start a parent run league for our kids...playing at parks and school fields that we own.


----------



## Chalklines (Jul 9, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Maybe time to start a parent run league for our kids...playing at parks and school fields that we own.


what percentage of silverlakers is owned by the city at this point? Any or is a privately own facility?


----------



## watfly (Jul 9, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> This is what started the whole thing.  I really don't understand why she was investigating this....I believe the State would have been none the wiser if she didn't start questioning them.


The State Health Department would have to be completely oblivious and derelict in their duty to not know it was going on (which is not out of the realm of possibility), but like GraceT said it had to be a wink and a nod.  It was the fact that the reporter made it public.



lafalafa said:


> Ask your Club or Cal South why they don't do diligence before suggestion proceeding. Flase start or whatever the case is not a good idea to play with kids emotions.


I don't know about other counties, but in SD County it was specifically allowed and communicated by its Board of Supervisors with the support of the county's Public Health Officer.



Chalklines said:


> Target dates been November 3rd from the start.
> 
> Since protests are still allowed why can't clubs start the Let Kids Play Movement? You can protest on public land which opens up the parks. Teams can still continue phase 1 of calsouths requirements of social distancing and the kids can all bring 1 sign to practice. Your basicly kicking the ball around to demonstrate cause. It seems just as logical like opening as a camp. plus the media's already told us the virus magically has no tracers to these gatherings.


Are there any Landon Donovan or Hope Solo statues the kids could tear down to really drive the point home?  It would give the cause some real credibility.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 9, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Brilliant! All forms of isolation, that'll do wonders for their social well-being and mental health.


Man up tough guy!  Why are you whining again looking soft as table butter.


----------



## espola (Jul 9, 2020)

watfly said:


> Are there any Landon Donovan or Hope Solo statues the kids could tear down to really drive the point home?  It would give the cause some real credibility.


Why Landon and Hope specifically?


----------



## watfly (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> Why Landon and Hope specifically?


First US soccer names that popped in to my head.  As we've seen, the identity of the statue is irrelevant.  I think a Tom Brady statue or Bob's Big Boy would work too.


----------



## Soccermom7 (Jul 9, 2020)

Is soccer cancelled again across the state?


----------



## Mosafie (Jul 9, 2020)

Why are other countries cases, hospitalizations, and deaths going down?


Ellejustus said:


> I hope you sleep well at night.  I will let me friend know that he might have brain damage now when he let's me know he's positive.  Thanks for the information.  BTW, if that is true, then we all need to go inside now.  Brain damage for the first repsonders and risk takers and everyone else can stay home so they live?  This is so whacko bird BS!!!!  I also heard some woman who got the virus when she was prego had Batbaby.  Half bat and human.


Covid causes lack of oxygen to organs and tissues so  any extreme pack of oxygen is going to causes brain damage.


Grace T. said:


> Wow the wheels really are coming off of everything.  Got word now our school has suspended all practices including DYS upcoming soccer camp and despite a being a private school doesn't think on campus learning will take place in September, at least at the start, but still wants us to be ready just in case and they want to, but LA County health might not let them.
> 
> So I've taken my own advice and we are leaving, probably for Nevada at this point, and we'll relook at it in fall if/when schools reopen.  But that's raised some issues too.  First I need to transfer my allergy shots but they've been giving me the run around for the transfer given that I haven't been set up yet in Nevada....my dad an MD allergist was willing to help out but they are giving us the run around and prepandemic procedures like a transfer meeting/check up don't make sense at this point.  More interestingly, I have to make arrangements for a COVID test, in case the schools do open back up, since our private school will require them.  But our ped doesn't want to issue the order since it's not medically necessary.  Ventura county doesn't want to give it to us (since we won't be residing in Ventura county).  And LA County doesn't think what the school is doing is very good considering the backlog in exams right now.  My son's friend needs an MRI and they are requiring a COVID test too, but having similar difficulties.  So it's impossible to arrange now and we may need to pop back for a few days IF the schools reopen.  It's all such a mess and people are so close to the breaking point.  Now Faucci is urging California back into hard lockdowns, and I guarantee that will not go well particularly after they said boo about the protests.
> 
> Later gators.  Everyone staff safe!


Your dad is an MD just have him write a lab slip and take it to any lab Corp or quest diagnostics in California. My wife gets a test every two weeks.


Nevada also has restrictions including: 

"no singing, dancing, playing wind instruments and high risk sport"

You can't run from a pandemic. It's just a matter of time until it reaches you.  Nevada may also not have any soccer this fall.


----------



## espola (Jul 9, 2020)

watfly said:


> First US soccer names that popped in to my head.  As we've seen, the identity of the statue is irrelevant.  I think a Tom Brady statue or Bob's Big Boy would work too.


Tearing down statues of traitors and racists is not irrelevant.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> Exactly..... their kid didn't make an ECNL roster and now likely wants to quit the game since her friends are going to play on without her....... therefore he/she wants all of youth soccer shut down for ever more...... pathetic


That is the truth.  Anyone who has followed this forum knows whats up.


Mosafie said:


> Why are other countries cases, hospitalizations, and deaths going down?
> 
> 
> *Covid causes lack of oxygen to organs and tissues so  any extreme pack of oxygen is going to causes brain damage.*
> ...


How many under 18 getting brain damage Dre?  Just curious if you had some data. My buddy keeps getting delayed on results.  Can you ask your wife why the hold up?  Thanks


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 9, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> The old system of pay to play is over and will never return and that is very good.  This needed some cleaning and it's getting cleaned up as we speak. Why dont one of the spies go and watch the kids play at the beach.  This is a joke!!!


Probably will make pay to play worse, as the kids with money will have private access to facilities and trainings, while the other kids are stuck at home. Work from home parents tend to be wealthier, can drive the kid around town, while the latchkey kid is on the sofa doing zoom class and getting fat. Pay to play kid will increase his advantage over essential worker’s kid when things open back up.


----------



## Goforgoal (Jul 9, 2020)

Soccermom7 said:


> Is soccer cancelled again across the state?


No, not yet. Blues announced last night that they were suspending activities "per state guidelines" though. I'm sure more will follow, particularly in OC and San Bernardino where those counties have made public statements regarding youth sports. San Diego led an early push to get kids back out so I don't know what will happen there. Waiting and seeing.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Probably will make pay to play worse, as the kids with money will have private access to facilities and trainings, while the other kids are stuck at home. Work from home parents tend to be wealthier, can drive the kid around town, while the latchkey kid is on the sofa doing zoom class and getting fat. Pay to play kid will increase his advantage over essential worker’s kid when things open back up.


BS!!!!  WE need 26 players and go play for free.  My dd never did that BS!!!  Go back and read my rants!!!


----------



## MacDre (Jul 9, 2020)

dad4 said:


> church sleep-away camp is often HS.  I’ll look for articles.


6th grade camp at Mt Herman in Santa Cruz used to be popular in NorCal.  Not sure if it still is.


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 9, 2020)

MacDre said:


> 6th grade camp at Mt Herman in Santa Cruz used to be popular in NorCal.  Not sure if it still is.


Yes it is. My daughter did it last Fall.


----------



## jpeter (Jul 9, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> what percentage of silverlakers is owned by the city at this point? Any or is a privately own facility?


City of Norco owns the land and the private management group has the lease rights

My understanding is some clubs or organizations didn't proceed with trying to fit youth sports team practice/drills under day camps guidance because they took the time to actually do diligence and consult with the state heath dept which told them that youth sports guidance is under review and TBA.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 9, 2020)

Mosafie said:


> Why are other countries cases, hospitalizations, and deaths going down?
> 
> 
> Covid causes lack of oxygen to organs and tissues so  any extreme pack of oxygen is going to causes brain damage.
> ...


1. I'm being told in Ventura County for a minor they need the slip from a ped that's Ventura County based.  Part of the new crackdown given what's going on in Oxnard.  

2. Nevada's not to play soccer....it's to get them out of the city and into the woods and away from the craziness.  We still might do Norcal (but finding lots of places have already been taken there and its really expensive) but are also looking at Utah and Colorado.  

3. Other countries, hospitalizations and deaths are going down because they burned through their curves.  If you look at Eastern Europe, for example, that also locked down too early, they are in kind of the same boat as LA.  

4. The French prime minister's response today was interesting when considering a second wave (which France is potentially anticipating because its wave wasn't as large as Spain or Italy): "we're not going to impose another lockdown like we did last March, because we've learned....that the economic and human consequences from a total lockdown are disastrous".   Never thought I'd live to see the day when the French not only make more sense but are more stoic and brave than we are.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 9, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Man up tough guy!  Why are you whining again looking soft as table butter.


...too poor for butter.


----------



## chiefs (Jul 9, 2020)

Who


espola said:


> Tearing down statues of traitors and racists is not irrelevant.
> 
> Who would that be?


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> Tearing down statues of traitors and racists is not irrelevant.


It's a crime...are you okay with that?


----------



## espola (Jul 9, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> It's a crime...are you okay with that?


Putting them up was a crime.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> Putting them up was a crime.


Specifically, what crime was committed putting them up?

Specifically, by what authority were they torn down?


----------



## chiefs (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> Putting them up was a crime.


Which statues and why was it a crime?


----------



## espola (Jul 9, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Specifically, what crime was committed putting them up?
> 
> Specifically, by what authority were they torn down?


They were put up by the authority of racists and descendents of traitors.  There were complaints when they were put up in the Jim Crow era, but the politics of the day carried the issue.  It's long past time for them to come down.

Do you remember when the statue of Sadam Hussein was torn down in Baghdad?  Same principle.


----------



## espola (Jul 9, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Which statues and why was it a crime?


The primary example is Robert E Lee - traitor, racist, murderer, and abuser of women he "owned".

In addition, Lee has the distinction of being one of the few slave owners in the US South who was sued by his slaves (then the Civil War came along and the lawsuit became moot).


----------



## chiefs (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> They were put up by the authority of racists and descendents of traitors.  There were complaints when they were put up in the Jim Crow era, but the politics of the day carried the issue.  It's long past time for them to come down.
> 
> Do you remember when the statue of Sadam Hussein was torn down in Baghdad?  Same principle.


Which traitors, and what statues?


----------



## chiefs (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> The primary example is Robert E Lee - traitor, racist, murderer, and abuser of women he "owned".


According to who? who says this?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> They were put up by the authority of racists and descendents of traitors.  There were complaints when they were put up in the Jim Crow era, but the politics of the day carried the issue.  It's long past time for them to come down.
> 
> Do you remember when the statue of Sadam Hussein was torn down in Baghdad?  Same principle.


Ok, ESPY, you coo coo for co co puffs and you must be high tonight and drinking.


----------



## espola (Jul 9, 2020)

chiefs said:


> According to who? who says this?


You didn't know that already?

Check with LE - he is the self-appointed historian of the day.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> They were put up by the authority of racists and descendents of traitors.  There were complaints when they were put up in the Jim Crow era, but the politics of the day carried the issue.  It's long past time for them to come down.
> 
> Do you remember when the statue of Sadam Hussein was torn down in Baghdad?  Same principle.


You frequently request from others links, clarity and specificity...so I'll ask a second time:

Specifically, what crime was committed putting them up?

Specifically, by what authority were they torn down?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> You frequently request from others links, clarity and specificity...so I'll ask a second time:
> 
> Specifically, what crime was committed putting them up?
> 
> Specifically, by what authority were they torn down?


Just ask Messy


----------



## espola (Jul 9, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> You frequently request from others links, clarity and specificity...so I'll ask a second time:
> 
> Specifically, what crime was committed putting them up?
> 
> Specifically, by what authority were they torn down?


Why are you pretending I didn't answer you?  Is it because you don't like the answers?

BTW - some of the statues were removed by their owners (municipalities, colleges, etc) because they finally got the political will to do something right that should have been done long ago.


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 9, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> 1. I'm being told in Ventura County for a minor they need the slip from a ped that's Ventura County based.  Part of the new crackdown given what's going on in Oxnard.
> 
> 2. Nevada's not to play soccer....it's to get them out of the city and into the woods and away from the craziness.  We still might do Norcal (but finding lots of places have already been taken there and its really expensive) but are also looking at Utah and Colorado.
> 
> ...


If you really can and looking to get out of craziness, I would highly suggest Idaho.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> If you really can and looking to get out of craziness, I would highly suggest Idaho.


2 more years and my wife and i will live in Idaho, at least that's the hope.  We might forced to go sooner but I hope peace will prevail and my dd can finish HS.


----------



## Soccermaverick (Jul 9, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> 2 more years and my wife and i will live in Idaho, at least that's the hope.  We might forced to go sooner but I hope peace will prevail and my dd can finish HS.


This forum is the largest collection of bullshit artists I have ever seen.. in fact it’s a circle... a circle of jerks offs, racists, and liars.  

I can not not hope one day aliens arrive and when Trump asks them do they know Jesus they say ...”Jesus we don’t know the guy... who is he? Do you want us to bring him back?”

Then we will see some real scary shit.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 9, 2020)

espola said:


> Why are you pretending I didn't answer you?  Is it because you don't like the answers?
> 
> BTW - some of the statues were removed by their owners (municipalities, colleges, etc) because they finally got the political will to do something right that should have been done long ago.





espola said:


> Why are you pretending I didn't answer you?  Is it because you don't like the answers?
> 
> BTW - some of the statues were removed by their owners (municipalities, colleges, etc) because they finally got the political will to do something right that should have been done long ago.


What answer, it was an opinion. You cited a crime, I can care less about your opinion, a crime is represented by specific law and facts, opinion is irrelevant. Additionally, tearing down any public or private property requires authority to do so, again no answer as to what authority protesters had in doing so.

Aside from a lack of standing and creditability, I'd say the pretender is you.


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Jul 9, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Magoo strikes again!  Affected, yes....however his Winery, PlumpJack was the only tasting room that was open while all others were closed by the ordinance.  This isn’t hard to find if your lazy ass cares to look rather than question!


Plumpjack tasting room was closed while the other Napa tasting rooms were closed. It opened when the others in Napa opened on June 5. On July 1, 19 counties were ordered to close again because those counties passed pre-established covid-19 thresholds. Napa was not one of those counties (because it’s cases and hospitalization rate did not meet the threshold) so Plumpjack along with all other Napa tasting rooms remained open. That’s when some media reported headlines such as: 

*Sour grapes emerge as most Calif. wineries close while Newsom’s winery remains open*

This is how “journalism” uses confirmation bias to sell.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

Soccermaverick said:


> *This forum is the largest collection of bullshit artists I have ever seen.. in fact it’s a circle... a circle of jerks offs, racists, and liars.*
> 
> I can not not hope one day aliens arrive and when Trump asks them do they know Jesus they say ...”Jesus we don’t know the guy... who is he? Do you want us to bring him back?”
> 
> Then we will see some real scary shit.


Which one are you?


----------



## Soccermaverick (Jul 9, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Which one are you?
> 
> I can not not hope one day aliens arrive and when Trump asks them do they know *Jesus* they say ..


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 9, 2020)

Have you been drinking tonight Mavs?


----------



## espola (Jul 9, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> What answer, it was an opinion. You cited a crime, I can care less about your opinion, a crime is represented by specific law and facts, opinion is irrelevant. Additionally, tearing down any public or private property requires authority to do so, again no answer as to what authority protesters had in doing so.
> 
> Aside from a lack of standing and creditability, I'd say the pretender is you.


Based on your posting record here, I could not care less* about your opinion of me.

*please note that I even got the cliché right.


----------



## Mosafie (Jul 10, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> 1. I'm being told in Ventura County for a minor they need the slip from a ped that's Ventura County based.  Part of the new crackdown given what's going on in Oxnard.
> 
> 2. Nevada's not to play soccer....it's to get them out of the city and into the woods and away from the craziness.  We still might do Norcal (but finding lots of places have already been taken there and its really expensive) but are also looking at Utah and Colorado.
> 
> ...


The French dont have it as bad as the US. I dont think any European country will need to lock down fully again. They have a robust contact tracing system that will allow them to catch local spikes before they get big.

Spain has had to lock down some cities. Their lockdown is a real lockdown. They even close of the roads and only essential business gets in.

Contact tracing is impossible when you have 50,000 new cases and rampant community spread in the US. There also no federal coordinated contact tracing program.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 10, 2020)

espola said:


> Based on your posting record here, I could not care less* about your opinion of me.
> 
> *please note that I even got the cliché right.


Again, no substance... you've made my point.

BTW, "cliché" defines you perfectly...

/klēˈSHā/
_noun_

*a phrase or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of original thought.*


----------



## espola (Jul 10, 2020)

Soccermaverick said:


> This forum is the largest collection of bullshit artists I have ever seen.. in fact it’s a circle... a circle of jerks offs, racists, and liars.
> 
> I can not not hope one day aliens arrive and when Trump asks them do they know Jesus they say ...”Jesus we don’t know the guy... who is he? Do you want us to bring him back?”
> 
> Then we will see some real scary shit.


I see you're new here.  Look on this place as a scientific instrument connected of some of the looniest bins in Amerca.  The collection of bullshit artists persists here because the only discipline by the owner/moderator is to move a whole thread to the Off-Topic section.  If you want a sane soccer website with many more active sections, try bigsoccer.com.  It's free, they have better user tools, and threads and sections are moderated firmly by long-term users - I myself have been put on the shelf for a week in a referee section for repeating the charge that the referee didn't have the balls to make a critical call in a big international game.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 10, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Probably will make pay to play worse, as the kids with money will have private access to facilities and trainings, while the other kids are stuck at home. Work from home parents tend to be wealthier, can drive the kid around town, while the latchkey kid is on the sofa doing zoom class and getting fat. Pay to play kid will increase his advantage over essential worker’s kid when things open back up.


Life’s a bitch.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 10, 2020)

espola said:


> I see you're new here.  Look on this place as a scientific instrument connected of some of the looniest bins in Amerca.  The collection of bullshit artists persists here because the only discipline by the owner/moderator is to move a whole thread to the Off-Topic section.  If you want a sane soccer website with many more active sections, try bigsoccer.com.  It's free, they have better user tools, and threads and sections are moderated firmly by long-term users - I myself have been put on the shelf for a week in a referee section for repeating the charge that the referee didn't have the balls to make a critical call in a big international game.


LOL! ...says the looney bin with the highest volume of drivel and "clichés" throughout this forum.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 10, 2020)

Soccermaverick said:


> This forum is the largest collection of bullshit artists I have ever seen.. in fact it’s a circle... a circle of jerks offs, racists, and liars.
> 
> I can not not hope one day aliens arrive and when Trump asks them do they know Jesus they say ...”Jesus we don’t know the guy... who is he? Do you want us to bring him back?”
> 
> Then we will see some real scary shit.


And here I thought you couldn’t get any worse.
You are in the middle of the circle.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 10, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> Plumpjack tasting room was closed while the other Napa tasting rooms were closed. It opened when the others in Napa opened on June 5. On July 1, 19 counties were ordered to close again because those counties passed pre-established covid-19 thresholds. Napa was not one of those counties (because it’s cases and hospitalization rate did not meet the threshold) so Plumpjack along with all other Napa tasting rooms remained open. That’s when some media reported headlines such as:
> 
> *Sour grapes emerge as most Calif. wineries close while Newsom’s winery remains open*
> 
> This is how “journalism” uses confirmation bias to sell.


You have a source?  Cause most other tasting rooms I looked up where closed till July 9th.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 10, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> It's a crime...are you okay with that?


What’s the crime?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 10, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> That is the truth.  Anyone who has followed this forum knows whats up.
> 
> How many under 18 getting brain damage Dre?  Just curious if you had some data. My buddy keeps getting delayed on results.  Can you ask your wife why the hold up?  Thanks


She hasn’t heard of any with brain damage but that doesn’t mean it’s not happening.  This thing is new and they’re figuring it out as they go.  She did say the number of 17 and under testing positive is on the rise.

She’s not sure about the holdups your buddy is experiencing.  They have a rapid test that’s not as reliable and the lab is taking about 6 days.

I have stayed away from this topic because I had a weird experience around last Thanksgiving.  I was in Chula Vista going into the Target on Broadway and a lady approached me asking for money.  I kinda brushed her off and told her I’d give her some change on the way out.

As I was standing in the checkout line and looking out of the store window, I noticed this lady was like 10 people deep.  Her group included seniors and kids maybe 8 or 9 years old.  As I stood in line, I thought WTF something is going on...this ain’t a hustle.

As I walked out of Target, the lady approached me and told me that she was raising money to bury her 12 year old daughter.  I looked in her eyes and at her body language and again the shit was real, this was definitely not a hustle.

I asked her what happened and she told me that her daughter had an issue like asthma with her lungs and died.  I donated to the funeral services and departed.

Now, I’m kinda wondering did this kid in Chula Vista die of Covid back in November.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> She hasn’t heard of any with brain damage but that doesn’t mean it’s not happening.  This thing is new and they’re figuring it out as they go.  She did say the number of 17 and under testing positive is on the rise.
> 
> She’s not sure about the holdups your buddy is experiencing.  They have a rapid test that’s not as reliable and the lab is taking about 6 days.
> 
> ...


You know what, I went to Walmart before I went to Seattle in Jan this year.  The place was just sick if you know what I mean.  Everyone I knew in December and Jan were complaining of a horrible flu.  Good job helping out the poor.  I always try and give what I can


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 10, 2020)

espola said:


> I see you're new here.  Look on this place as a scientific instrument connected of some of the looniest bins in Amerca.  The collection of bullshit artists persists here because the only discipline by the owner/moderator is to move a whole thread to the Off-Topic section.  If you want a sane soccer website with many more active sections, try bigsoccer.com.  It's free, they have better user tools, and threads and sections are moderated firmly by long-term users - I myself have been put on the shelf for a week in a referee section for repeating the charge that the referee didn't have the balls to make a critical call in a big international game.


@Soccermaverick
Mavs, do NOT listen to ESPY at all.  He has no one playing soccer at all.  No one but comes on here to call people, "Coo Coo." When he writes, "Coo Coo, " that means you won the debate.  I won him  He told me to go to Big Soccer too. I took his advise and I was talking to myself for a month. I think two drive by wimps hit me with some BS and never responded to my takes. ESPY put the "super Ignore" button on me as well, which was a first for him. I won!!! He quit debating me.....lol!!!! Folks only do that when they keep losing debates. He used to take me on and say all my stories were BS and I make stuff up. Well, I;m still here and anyone WHO has been following know I do my best to speak the truth, the truth that I see I might add 
Plus, all ESPY does is complain about Dom and his decisions.  In fact, ESPY only wants what he thinks is best for the socal soccer forum.  Notice he has a free account?  I pay to play here and it's worth every dollar.  This place has action and it's fresh.  I'm back and never leaving


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Jul 10, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> You have a source?  Cause most other tasting rooms I looked up where closed till July 9th.











						Napa Valley Wineries Reopen for Visitors | NapaValley.com
					

Eager to visit Napa Valley wineries again? Good news! Napa wineries have gotten the okay to reopen and welcome guests again. Here's what is currently open.




					www.napavalley.com
				




Any Napa tasting rooms closed between June 5 and July 9 were closed by choice because business was slow.


----------



## chiefs (Jul 10, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> You have a source?  Cause most other tasting rooms I looked up where closed till July 9th.


Gavin should be embarrassed, shouldn't he be concerned for all small businesses and just not his tasting rooms viability? It reeks...


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 10, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> Napa Valley Wineries Reopen for Visitors | NapaValley.com
> 
> 
> Eager to visit Napa Valley wineries again? Good news! Napa wineries have gotten the okay to reopen and welcome guests again. Here's what is currently open.
> ...


Thx!


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 10, 2020)

espola said:


> I see you're new here.  Look on this place as a scientific instrument connected of some of the looniest bins in Amerca.  The collection of bullshit artists persists here because the only discipline by the owner/moderator is to move a whole thread to the Off-Topic section.  If you want a sane soccer website with many more active sections, try bigsoccer.com.  It's free, they have better user tools, and threads and sections are moderated firmly by long-term users - I myself have been put on the shelf for a week in a referee section for repeating the charge that the referee didn't have the balls to make a critical call in a big international game.


Big soccers youth section isn’t as robust and they’ve had their own issue with this eyebrows guy.  The pro sections are pretty good though.  The issue, even over there, is there is no youth soccer right now in many places, so we’re only left with talking about why, which by definition spills into the politics, science and whataboutism (wineries, gyms, school, protests).


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 10, 2020)

espola said:


> The only one?











						California governor shuts down wineries in 19 counties but his is open
					

California Governor Gavin Newsom on Wednesday ordered 19 counties to shut down their wineries due to the rise in the number of cases of COVID-19, but his own in Napa Valley remains open.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 10, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I just watched a school board / parent conference. Disappointing, but seems most people want to hide at home. Here is the video. Parents seems pretty emotional.


Lots of weeping... I didn't see a single tear or snotty nose.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 10, 2020)

espola said:


> Tearing down statues of traitors and racists is not irrelevant.


We need to leave Hope's up.  She's married to a black man so her statue matters.


----------



## espola (Jul 10, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Big soccers youth section isn’t as robust and they’ve had their own issue with this eyebrows guy.  The pro sections are pretty good though.  The issue, even over there, is there is no youth soccer right now in many places, so we’re only left with talking about why, which by definition spills into the politics, science and whataboutism (wineries, gyms, school, protests).


I usually land in the college soccer group (and its neverending debates on the merits of RPI) and occasionally look to see if there are any interesting discussions in the referee group.  The women's groups really took off when the WNT lawsuit was filed


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 10, 2020)

espola said:


> Putting them up was a crime.


Apparently it wasn't a crime for many, many years.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 10, 2020)

Soccermaverick said:


> This forum is the largest collection of bullshit artists I have ever seen.. in fact it’s a circle... a circle of jerks offs, racists, and liars.
> 
> I can not not hope one day aliens arrive and when Trump asks them do they know Jesus they say ...”Jesus we don’t know the guy... who is he? Do you want us to bring him back?”
> 
> Then we will see some real scary shit.


Your "Jesus" is as real as "white supremacy".  In other words, it doesn't exist.


----------



## watfly (Jul 10, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> We need to leave Hope's up.  She's married to a black man so her statue matters.


If Frederick Douglas, abolitionists, Jimmy Hendrix and an Elk can be torn down or vandalized than so can Hope.  She needs to take one for the team.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 10, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Apparently it wasn't a crime for many, many years.


White privilege.  And inequitable administration of the law.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> What’s the crime?


Arson, destruction, and vandalism of property.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 10, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Arson, destruction, and vandalism of property.


Since when is enforcing the will of the people vandalism?  The people don’t want the statues up and the people are taking the statues down.  It’s just that the process of removing the statues is messy so please excuse the dust while we work


----------



## dad4 (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Since when is enforcing the will of the people vandalism?  The people don’t want the statues up and the people are taking the statues down.  It’s just that the process of removing the statues is messy so please excuse the dust while we work


If it is the will of the people, you can just take a vote.  I'd be happy to replace Fort Bragg with Fort Tubman.

Also, can you put the Hans Christian Heg statue back up?  We kind of liked that one.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> White privilege.  And inequitable administration of the law.


Yeah... we know, the black folks need special laws so they aren't arrested for things they don't believe are illegal.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Since when is enforcing the will of the people vandalism?  The people don’t want the statues up and the people are taking the statues down.  It’s just that the process of removing the statues is messy so please excuse the dust while we work


Will of the people?  What people?  The same ones that wanted COPS taken off the air because it shows too much black criminal behavior?

I don't remember the "will of the people" being voted on.  My "will of the people" wouldn't include painting BLM graffiti on the street.  Good thing the "will of the people" just painted over that bullshit.

The good news is you're "working".  Probably would have been good to put that work ethic to use for more than liquor store robberies and car theft.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 10, 2020)

dad4 said:


> If it is the will of the people, you can just take a vote.  I'd be happy to replace Fort Bragg with Fort Tubman.
> 
> Also, can you put the Hans Christian Heg statue back up?  We kind of liked that one.


That is absolutely one way to solve the issue.  However, the people have voted and decided to expedite the process instead of going through the bureaucratic process fraught with challenges.
Jury annulment is a tool employed by attorneys under rare circumstances.  I don’t see why you think the same crooked process that erected the statues is going to act with integrity once petitioned for their removal.  The lack of a desire to proceed in good faith is evidenced by the ongoing issues with the Redskins and Confederate flag prior to the Floyd case.  In other words, if the system worked how it should have their would be no statues to tear down.  I HAD to put my kid in an International school in Mexico to get her a culturally and socially relevant education  and to get my kid away from the great white man lie.
In your opinion, how much longer would they have to wait before you’d be okay with tearing it down?


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Since when is enforcing the will of the people vandalism?  The people don’t want the statues up and the people are taking the statues down.  It’s just that the process of removing the statues is messy so please excuse the dust while we work


I see, then cry victim regarding lack of prosecution of others...the gig is up clown, your shtick is obvious.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> That is absolutely one way to solve the issue.  However, the people have voted and decided to expedite the process instead of going through the bureaucratic process fraught with challenges.
> Jury annulment is a tool employed by attorneys under rare circumstances.  I don’t see why you think the same crooked process that erected the statues is going to act with integrity once petitioned for their removal.  The lack of a desire to proceed in good faith is evidenced by the ongoing issues with the Redskins and Confederate flag prior to the Floyd case.  In other words, if the system worked how it should have their would be no statues to tear down.  I HAD to put my kid in an International school in Mexico to get her a culturally and socially relevant education  and to get my kid away from the great white man lie.
> In your opinion, how much longer would they have to wait before you’d be okay with tearing it down?


So you just do what you want now regardless of others.  That's funny.  50 people are pissed off so they vandalize and tie a truck rope around it.

You didn't have to send your kid to Tijuana.  You could have put her in any black community school.  You didn't want that kind of diversity for her... same reason you don't live in that community.  You're a hypocrite.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> That is absolutely one way to solve the issue.  However, the people have voted and decided to expedite the process instead of going through the bureaucratic process fraught with challenges.
> Jury annulment is a tool employed by attorneys under rare circumstances.  I don’t see why you think the same crooked process that erected the statues is going to act with integrity once petitioned for their removal.  The lack of a desire to proceed in good faith is evidenced by the ongoing issues with the Redskins and Confederate flag prior to the Floyd case.  In other words, if the system worked how it should have their would be no statues to tear down.  I HAD to put my kid in an International school in Mexico to get her a culturally and socially relevant education  and to get my kid away from the great white man lie.
> In your opinion, how much longer would they have to wait before you’d be okay with tearing it down?


How long until you have my vote for removing Confederate and Columbus statues?   You already have it.

How long until I support mob vandalism against those same statues?  A few million years.


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 10, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Gavin should be embarrassed, shouldn't he be concerned for all small businesses and just not his tasting rooms viability? It reeks...


Whoever smelt it dealt it, queechiefs.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> White privilege.  And inequitable administration of the law.


The clown show continues.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 10, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> So you just do what you want now regardless of others.  That's funny.  50 people are pissed off so they vandalize and tie a truck rope around it.
> 
> You didn't have to send your kid to Tijuana.  You could have put her in any black community school.  You didn't want that kind of diversity for her... same reason you don't live in that community.  You're a hypocrite.


I did.  The public school by my house is under federal indictment.  It seems the white teachers were suspending black and latino kids without cause.  My family only considered Independent schools because I thought it was important for my kid to have a few queer teachers and that wouldn’t happen in most schools subsidized by the church.
Independent schools in the bay area are too expensive except for an elite few and I didn’t want my kid to be an elitist snob.  So, TJ was a good compromise.
I don’t live in a white neighborhood like Palo Alto, La Jolla etc.  Nope.  My house is walking distance from Magazine street in South Vallejo in one direction.  And in the other direction would be the Rodeo projects.  Like I said before, the white dudes in my hood don’t sip expensive lattes.  They’re full patched and ride Harley’s.  I’m in the hood like an engine patna!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I did.  The public school by my house is under federal indictment.  It seems the white teachers were suspending black and latino kids without cause.  My family only considered Independent schools because I thought it was important for my kid to have a few queer teachers and that wouldn’t happen in most schools subsidized by the church.
> Independent schools in the bay area are too expensive except for an elite few and I didn’t want my kid to be an elitist snob.  So, TJ was a good compromise.
> I don’t live in a white neighborhood like Palo Alto, La Jolla etc.  Nope.  My house is walking distance from Magazine street in South Vallejo in one direction.  And in the other direction would be the Rodeo projects.  Like I said before, the white dudes in my hood don’t sip expensive lattes.  They’re full patched and ride Harley’s.  I’m in the hood like an engine patna!


Tijuana might be the one town safer than Vallejo.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I did.  The public school by my house is under federal indictment.  It seems the white teachers were suspending black and latino kids without cause.  My family only considered Independent schools because I thought it was important for my kid to have a few queer teachers and that wouldn’t happen in most schools subsidized by the church.
> Independent schools in the bay area are too expensive except for an elite few and I didn’t want my kid to be an elitist snob.  So, TJ was a good compromise.
> I don’t live in a white neighborhood like Palo Alto, La Jolla etc.  Nope.  My house is walking distance from Magazine street in South Vallejo in one direction.  And in the other direction would be the Rodeo projects.  Like I said before, the white dudes in my hood don’t sip expensive lattes.  They’re full patched and ride Harley’s.  I’m in the hood like an engine patna!


Suspending black and latino kids without cause?

Not buying it.  It is HARD to get a kid suspended these days.  If a kid got himself suspended, he worked at it.

Maybe the administration unfairly gave the benefit of the doubt to undeserving white kids.   Or maybe the hood rats of all colors have ruined the schools for young kids who want to learn.

There is a reason you and I picked independent schools, and it isn’t because it is hard to find queer role models near San Francisco.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 10, 2020)

espola said:


> Putting them up was a crime.


You were played. These are anarchists that are tearing down and defacing monuments to create chaos. Why else would they tear down and deface abolitionists like Frederick douglas, hans christian heg, Matthias Baldwin, as well as catholic saints. They are either dumb like you, or are purposely causing chaos disguised as some sort of virtue. I say its both. You're just naive to believe their fake cause. Lol.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 10, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Suspending black and latino kids without cause?
> 
> Not buying it.  It is HARD to get a kid suspended these days.  If a kid got himself suspended, he worked at it.
> 
> ...


I wasn’t personally involved so I’m not aware. My white Aunt that teaches in the district advised against my kid attending the elementary in the district because she thinks many of the teachers are culturally insensitive to racist.  So, I never enrolled my kid in the district.

A few years back, I received a truancy notice so I went to the school district office to talk with the superintendent.  I learned the district had a new superintendent and the former superintendent was fired due to the federal indictment.  According, to the new superintendent the problem was widespread

But, I’m sure the teachers had their hands full and there are lots of issues with the demographic that they are trying to teach.

I support public education.  I also think educating a kid is more than reading, writing, arithmetic.  I’ll take a street smart public school educated B student over a sheltered straight A independent school student all day everyday.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I wasn’t personally involved so I’m not aware. My white Aunt that teaches in the district advised against my kid attending the elementary in the district because she thinks many of the teachers are culturally insensitive to racist.  So, I never enrolled my kid in the district.
> 
> A few years back, I received a truancy notice so I went to the school district office to talk with the superintendent.  I learned the district had a new superintendent and the former superintendent was fired due to the federal indictment.  According, to the new superintendent the problem was widespread
> 
> ...


How about a street smart GED student who passed on his first try?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I wasn’t personally involved so I’m not aware. My white Aunt that teaches in the district advised against my kid attending the elementary in the district because she thinks many of the teachers are culturally insensitive to racist.  So, I never enrolled my kid in the district.
> 
> A few years back, I received a truancy notice so I went to the school district office to talk with the superintendent.  I learned the district had a new superintendent and the former superintendent was fired due to the federal indictment.  According, to the new superintendent the problem was widespread
> 
> ...


I thought your kid was a straight A independent school student.  Did I get that wrong?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 10, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I thought your kid was a straight A independent school student.  Did I get that wrong?


Yes, she is.  But I also made her play soccer in the rec leagues in TJ away from the comforts of Estadio Caliente.  Her dance class and swimming class have lots of public school kids too.  So the Independent school academics mixed in with some inner city sports is providing a good balance.

I think Independent schools are extreme and many of the students are socially inept.  In fact, I don’t think many of the students would be successful in life but for their trust funds and family connections.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Yes, she is.  But I also made her play soccer in the rec leagues in TJ away from the comforts of Estadio Caliente.  Her dance class and swimming class have lots of public school kids too.  So the Independent school academics mixed in with some inner city sports is providing a good balance.
> 
> I* think Independent schools are extreme and many of the students are socially inept.*  In fact, *I don’t think many of the students would be successful in life but for their trust funds and family connections.*


Let's keep an open mind Dre.  I shared about my friend who has home schooled his kids.  His dd just got her first Iphone at 18.  Her little brothers wont get one until they graduate and they have never played a video game.  They have no tv, but that's because they cant afford tv.  he makes $103,000 a year teaching kids like I was.  Their talking about a 10% cut possibly.  Plus, his dad just died of cancer and he worked as welder in HB.  Total stoner dad hippie from the 60s.  He was good guy but was not around to help my buddy.  His dd got a full ride in dance and is a sweet heart.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 10, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Let's keep an open mind Dre.  I shared about my friend who has home schooled his kids.  His dd just got her first Iphone at 18.  Her little brothers wont get one until they graduate and they have never played a video game.  They have no tv, but that's because they cant afford tv.  he makes $103,000 a year teaching kids like I was.  Their talking about a 10% cut possibly.  Plus, his dad just died of cancer and he worked as welder in HB.  Total stoner dad hippie from the 60s.  He was good guy but was not around to help my buddy.  His dd got a full ride in dance and is a sweet heart.


I think homeschooling and Independent schools can be great options.  I just think for this demographic, parents have to be mindful of the social skills.  Maybe my view is colored by Biglaw.
The guys with social skills get to go out with the clients and have fun and make deals. Meanwhile, the socially inept kid is working late and over the weekend writing my briefs and memo’s so I can be prepared to show up to court after my long weekend of getting shit-faced with fellow soccer dads.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 10, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I think homeschooling and Independent schools can be great options.  I just think for this demographic, parents have to be mindful of the social skills.  Maybe my view is colored by Biglaw.
> The guys with social skills get to go out with the clients and have fun and make deals. Meanwhile, the socially inept kid is working late and over the weekend writing my briefs and memo’s so I can be prepared to show up to court after my long weekend of getting shit-faced with fellow soccer dads.


I tried to home school my kids just like my friend.  I fired my wife as the teacher after the first semester. No joke.  I would come down from my office at 11am and my son would be playing video games and just give that look like, "what?" I would say, "dont you have school?  He would tell me it's all done.  "Where's your sister" I would ask and he said she was asleep still and mommy is at the mall.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 10, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I tried to home school my kids just like my friend.  I fired my wife as the teacher after the first semester. No joke.  I would come down from my office at 11am and my son would be playing video games and just give that look like, "what?" I would say, "dont you have school?  He would tell me it's all done.  "Where's your sister" I would ask and he said she was asleep still and mommy is at the mall.


Of course you’ve tried to home school your kids. The Moultrie Method has been proven to be easily the best way to raise children.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 10, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Tijuana might be the one town safer than Vallejo.


South Vallejo Ain’t all bad.  Have you seen the views from the Maritime Academy?








						California State University Maritime Academy - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Justafan (Jul 10, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Gavin Newsome is a horrible horrible individual and not any leader, he needs to be recalled effective immediately....


Just tell Trump to take back his job and fix it.  Oh wait, why did he give up the most important job and role of his presidency to the governors?? The man is just a straight coward.  You notice all the studies on Covid are coming out of Europe.  Where the F*%K are our studies?  By now, we should know Covid's SS#, maiden name, and fetishes!


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 10, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Of course you’ve tried to home school your kids. The Moultrie Method has been proven to be easily the best way to raise children.


Wrong  again Mr Judge of perceptions.  My dd was 6 and my son was 9.  My dd was only playing AYSO with coach Nancy and Coach Jennifer. The shooting stars. Really nice ladies.  We never lost a match.  We had two girls who scored all the girls and my dd raced back to protect the defense.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 10, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> You were played. These are anarchists that are tearing down and defacing monuments to create chaos. Why else would they tear down and deface abolitionists like Frederick douglas, hans christian heg, Matthias Baldwin, as well as catholic saints. They are either dumb like you, or are purposely causing chaos disguised as some sort of virtue. I say its both. You're just naive to believe their fake cause. Lol.


Careful, @espola is gonna hit you with a petty "cliché" then his murse.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 10, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Just tell Trump to take back his job and fix it.  Oh wait, why did he give up the most important job and role of his presidency to the governors?? The man is just a straight coward.  You notice all the studies on Covid are coming out of Europe.  Where the F*%K are our studies?  By now, we should know Covid's SS#, maiden name, and fetishes!


Imagine still being on your period over 3 years later. Best stock up, you got over 4 to go.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 10, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Just tell Trump to take back his job and fix it.  Oh wait, why did he give up the most important job and role of his presidency to the governors?? The man is just a straight coward.  You notice all the studies on Covid are coming out of Europe.  Where the F*%K are our studies?  By now, we should know Covid's SS#, maiden name, and fetishes!


All the studies aren’t coming out of Europe. It’s just the fed govt doesn’t do a lot of studies.  You can’t blame that on trump. That’s a legacy of animal testing and how left wing activists got the nih to cease a lot of direct studies due to animal testing. I know because back in high school I was part of those protests and meetings over at the nih. I used to go to them and annoy my dad. We’ve done a lot of studies but they are mostly university and pharma based now. I’m more responsible for that than trump is. 

The governors are largely running the shot because of federalism.   Have a problem with that then blame it on the constitution.  No where in the enumerated powers does it say national health policy. Now maybe a president like Obama would say damn the constitution but the red state’s would have given him the finger and either caused him to back down like trump did or use force.  If trump had done that you’d be screaming tyranny because he would have forced SoCal and ny to open up faster.

In a park in la county, suburb city right now. Police broke up an adult baseball pickup game. That’s new.  They should have just had signs and said they were protesting. But la countY has new signs up warning people team sports are forbidden in the park. Not stopping a girls soccer team from setting up to practice.


----------



## chiefs (Jul 10, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Just tell Trump to take back his job and fix it.  Oh wait, why did he give up the most important job and role of his presidency to the governors?? The man is just a straight coward.  You notice all the studies on Covid are coming out of Europe.  Where the F*%K are our studies?  By now, we should know Covid's SS#, maiden name, and fetishes!


Did Trump take away youths sports and normal school hours? Not at all, the POS Gavin in California did.  Get real


----------



## GT45 (Jul 10, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> All the studies aren’t coming out of Europe. It’s just the fed govt doesn’t do a lot of studies.  You can’t blame that on trump. That’s a legacy of animal testing and how left wing activists got the nih to cease a lot of direct studies due to animal testing. I know because back in high school I was part of those protests and meetings over at the nih. I used to go to them and annoy my dad. We’ve done a lot of studies but they are mostly university and pharma based now. I’m more responsible for that than trump is.
> 
> The governors are largely running the shot because of federalism.   Have a problem with that then blame it on the constitution.  No where in the enumerated powers does it say national health policy. Now maybe a president like Obama would say damn the constitution but the red state’s would have given him the finger and either caused him to back down like trump did or use force.  If trump had done that you’d be screaming tyranny because he would have forced SoCal and ny to open up faster.
> 
> In a park in la county, suburb city right now. Police broke up an adult baseball pickup game. That’s new.  They should have just had signs and said they were protesting. But la countY has new signs up warning people team sports are forbidden in the park. Not stopping a girls soccer team from setting up to practice.


FFS you 'wannabe' know it all. If Trump would not have ignored the information he was given for weeks, this virus would not have impacted the states like it has. Don't ignore the criminal in the White House, and his responsibility for the massive spread of the virus. He is too busy golfing and commuting his criminal co-conspirator to worry about the virus and its impact on US citizens.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

GT45 said:


> FFS you 'wannabe' know it all. If Trump would not have ignored the information he was given for weeks, this virus would not have impacted the states like it has. Don't ignore the criminal in the White House, and his responsibility for the massive spread of the virus. He is too busy golfing and commuting his criminal co-conspirator to worry about the virus and its impact on US citizens.


Democrat leadership were far behind trump. Nancy pelosi and de blasio were out in their respective chinatowns telling people that it was safe to come out and be amongst the crowds to celebrate the Chinese new year in February after trump banned Chinese nationals from entering the u.s. to slow the spread of the virus. If you think the numbers are bad now, it would have been worse if a Democrat was president. Both biden and bernie said they would not have restricted travel. Biden at least changed his mind. Good call by trump. Facts. You can't dispute that.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Democrat leadership were far behind trump. Nancy pelosi and de blasio were out in their respective chinatowns telling people that it was safe to come out and be amongst the crowds to celebrate the Chinese new year in February after trump banned Chinese nationals from entering the u.s. to slow the spread of the virus. If you think the numbers are bad now, it would have been worse if a Democrat was president. Both biden and bernie said they would not have restricted travel. Biden at least changed his mind. Good call by trump. Facts. You can't dispute that.


Liar. Racist. 









						Trump's False Claims about Pelosi and Chinatown - FactCheck.org
					

President Donald Trump is making false and exaggerated claims about House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's Feb. 24 trip to San Francisco's Chinatown.




					www.factcheck.org


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> I see you're new here.  Look on this place as a scientific instrument connected of some of the looniest bins in Amerca.  The collection of bullshit artists persists here because the only discipline by the owner/moderator is to move a whole thread to the Off-Topic section.  If you want a sane soccer website with many more active sections, try bigsoccer.com.  It's free, they have better user tools, and threads and sections are moderated firmly by long-term users - I myself have been put on the shelf for a week in a referee section for repeating the charge that the referee didn't have the balls to make a critical call in a big international game.


Why are you here so much?
You are just like these protesting little bitches. Have some balls and leave, we don’t need old men who like to talk about little girls panties here anyway.
Dick


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 11, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I did.  The public school by my house is under federal indictment.  It seems the white teachers were suspending black and latino kids without cause.  My family only considered Independent schools because I thought it was important for my kid to have a few queer teachers and that wouldn’t happen in most schools subsidized by the church.
> Independent schools in the bay area are too expensive except for an elite few and I didn’t want my kid to be an elitist snob.  So, TJ was a good compromise.
> I don’t live in a white neighborhood like Palo Alto, La Jolla etc.  Nope.  My house is walking distance from Magazine street in South Vallejo in one direction.  And in the other direction would be the Rodeo projects.  Like I said before, the white dudes in my hood don’t sip expensive lattes.  They’re full patched and ride Harley’s.  I’m in the hood like an engine patna!


You don’t think the get enough queerness at home from you and your husband?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 11, 2020)

MacDre said:


> White privilege.  And inequitable administration of the law.


Fake News


----------



## dad4 (Jul 11, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Liar. Racist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yawn.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 11, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Since when is enforcing the will of the people vandalism?  The people don’t want the statues up and the people are taking the statues down.  It’s just that the process of removing the statues is messy so please excuse the dust while we work


Make sure you get out of the way when an suv comes at you.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Liar. Racist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And you?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 11, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Suspending black and latino kids without cause?
> 
> Not buying it.  It is HARD to get a kid suspended these days.  If a kid got himself suspended, he worked at it.
> 
> ...


I can’t figure you out.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)

Return to Politics and Hate
Good morning friends.  No more sports so lets play politics today.  It's on!!!  Nothing else to do anymore.  All you white people, you're one big white goo of racism!!!  Yes, everyone single one of us suck, were all selfish and it's about time the country get's rid of us.  Game on!!!  P.S.  If you live in OC, your dark and full of whiteness.  Disgusting white people and all of them need to bend and give up their privilege!!!


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)

Yo, I'm not well this morning and I really don't give a rip anymore.  I swear.  I'm going to go off today on a few people.  Let's play politics you assholes!!!!


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)




----------



## MacDre (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Democrat leadership were far behind trump. Nancy pelosi and de blasio were out in their respective chinatowns telling people that it was safe to come out and be amongst the crowds to celebrate the Chinese new year in February after trump banned Chinese nationals from entering the u.s. to slow the spread of the virus. If you think the numbers are bad now, it would have been worse if a Democrat was president. Both biden and bernie said they would not have restricted travel. Biden at least changed his mind. Good call by trump. Facts. You can't dispute that.


Trump got China right only because he’s racist.  He fucked up by not banning folks from Europe.  Why did your analysis not mention Europe smarty pants?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 11, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> You don’t think the get enough queerness at home from you and your husband?


Fuck...you made me laugh!


----------



## MacDre (Jul 11, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Return to Politics and Hate
> Good morning friends.  No more sports so lets play politics today.  It's on!!!  Nothing else to do anymore.  All you white people, you're one big white goo of racism!!!  Yes, everyone single one of us suck, were all selfish and it's about time the country get's rid of us.  Game on!!!  P.S.  If you live in OC, your dark and full of whiteness.  Disgusting white people and all of them need to bend and give up their privilege!!!


Fuck OC.  White Flight and de facto segregation.  Y’all motherfuckers ain’t slick!


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Fuck OC.  White Flight and de facto segregation.  Y’all motherfuckers ain’t slick!


I know some really great people here.  Thanks for letting us know how you feel about us.  I won;t be here.  I already know were a target.  That's so sad because I have seen much improvement.  Messy hates us too.  I love OC and it will always be a special place.


----------



## met61 (Jul 11, 2020)

GT45 said:


> FFS you 'wannabe' know it all. If Trump would not have ignored the information he was given for weeks, this virus would not have impacted the states like it has. Don't ignore the criminal in the White House, and his responsibility for the massive spread of the virus. He is too busy golfing and commuting his criminal co-conspirator to worry about the virus and its impact on US citizens.


Translation: "I'm a self-absorbed petulant sore loser still wetting myself over the election."


----------



## Y_T (Jul 11, 2020)




----------



## espola (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Democrat leadership were far behind trump. Nancy pelosi and de blasio were out in their respective chinatowns telling people that it was safe to come out and be amongst the crowds to celebrate the Chinese new year in February after trump banned Chinese nationals from entering the u.s. to slow the spread of the virus. If you think the numbers are bad now, it would have been worse if a Democrat was president. Both biden and bernie said they would not have restricted travel. Biden at least changed his mind. Good call by trump. Facts. You can't dispute that.





EOTL said:


> Liar. Racist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like someone was played.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> Looks like someone was played.


No, Pelosi said what MSK357 states. It's easy enough to find if you have an ounce of curiosity about the truth.

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi toured San Francisco's Chinatown Monday to send a message. She said there's no reason tourists or locals should be staying away from the area because of coronavirus concerns.

"That’s what we’re trying to do today is to say everything is fine here," Pelosi said. "Come because precautions have been taken. The city is on top of the situation."









						Nancy Pelosi Visits San Francisco's Chinatown Amid Coronavirus Concerns
					

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi toured San Francisco’s Chinatown Monday to send a message. She said there’s no reason tourists or locals should be staying away from the area because of coronavirus concerns.




					www.nbcbayarea.com


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 11, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Fuck...you made me laugh!


Trying to get you off the ledge and back to reality.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 11, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I know some really great people here.  Thanks for letting us know how you feel about us.  I won;t be here.  I already know were a target.  That's so sad because I have seen much improvement.  Messy hates us too.  I love OC and it will always be a special place.


Messy hates OC because he can’t afford it.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 11, 2020)

met61 said:


> Translation: "I'm a self-absorbed petulant sore loser still wetting myself over the election."


Maybe they should start their own party?
There are enough of them.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 11, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I know some really great people here.  Thanks for letting us know how you feel about us.  I won;t be here.  I already know were a target.  That's so sad because I have seen much improvement.  Messy hates us too.  I love OC and it will always be a special place.


Full confession.  I hate the thought of Orange County but I actually had one of greatest acts of kindness extended to me by a white guy in Orange County.


----------



## GT45 (Jul 11, 2020)

met61 said:


> Translation: "I'm a self-absorbed petulant sore loser still wetting myself over the election."


Not even close. I do my homework. Is there anything I said that was not truthful? He lies daily to the American people. He speaks to uneducated to garner their vote. Apparently that is you.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)

MacDre said:


> *Full confession.  I hate the thought of Orange County* but I actually had one of greatest acts of kindness extended to me by a white guy in Orange County.


I honestly appreciate your confession.  I think you just solved the race issue.  I think many people like you have perceived perceptions that all white people are racist.  That is really further from the truth.  I can say that with confidence.  However, if you hate me before I can show you an act of kindness, I might be kicked and beaten first (not by you or Maps I hope)) all because of hate and false perceptions.  The hate is real deep, isn't it?  Dre, I'm Scottish.  Some of my peeps were slaves too, all before 1619.  I think many white people like my friend Colin are starting to get offended.  His grand parents were muderred for being Jews from the Ukraine.  His great grand parents were slaves too.  It was just not in America.  So when you stair at us all, keep in mine were not all the Elitist that your side seems to be partnered with.  I guess you have to obey Joe.  Joe said it,  If you dont vote for him, you ain't black.  Well, you know WHO to vote for.  You better obey Dre......


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)




----------



## Glitterhater (Jul 11, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Yo, I'm not well this morning and I really don't give a rip anymore.  I swear.  I'm going to go off today on a few people.  Let's play politics you assholes!!!!


What... IS ... happening?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> What... IS ... happening?


I havent been able to get a refill of my meds because my Doc is on the front lines.  He was called into duty to save all the kids under 18.  So far, no deaths in OC under 18.  He's amazing Dr and is on top of it.  However, he has no time to see me.  Sorry everyone.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 11, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Is that mean that you already had covid?


The interesting thing about stupidity is that when you are stupid you don't know it.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 11, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I honestly appreciate your confession.  I think you just solved the race issue.  I think many people like you have perceived perceptions that all white people are racist.  That is really further from the truth.  I can say that with confidence.  However, if you hate me before I can show you an act of kindness, I might be kicked and beaten first (not by you or Maps I hope)) all because of hate and false perceptions.  The hate is real deep, isn't it?  Dre, I'm Scottish.  Some of my peeps were slaves too, all before 1619.  I think many white people like my friend Colin are starting to get offended.  His grand parents were muderred for being Jews from the Ukraine.  His great grand parents were slaves too.  It was just not in America.  So when you stair at us all, keep in mine were not all the Elitist that your side seems to be partnered with.  I guess you have to obey Joe.  Joe said it,  If you dont vote for him, you ain't black.  Well, you know WHO to vote for.  You better obey Dre......


I’m Scottish too and I have a British passport. Tell your Jewish friend Jews are responsible for my success and have guided me throughout my career.
I remember my first year at Hastings, I went to a female Jewish professors office hours and the only thing that she would ever talk to me about was returning to Israel to fight and getting married.  So, I kinda understand what you’re talking about.

Listen, I understand that the struggle is real and life is hard even if you are white.  Being black just adds another level of bullshit to life.

And overall if you look at different genres of music such as country, rock, jazz black folks have been so inclusive of whites that those genres of music aren’t even associated with black people any longer. 
Also blacks don’t have a 400 year history of oppression and aggression against whites.  To look in your history and find slavery is not the issue because almost everyone can do that.  White oppression DID NOT stop with slavery.  Rather it evolved and persist until this day.  Modern day racism offten occurs when white folks try to minimize the ongoing oppression of black folks to slavery.

The is


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)

Enjoy your new America Dre.  It's all your's man.  I was tempted to bow to make $40,000a month too back in 2016.  My black friend told me yesterday he could make 7 figures like Messy if he plays his money hand the right way.  He never sold his soul and neither did I.  Those who are aggressive and going for it are living for the now.  Money is every where to get.  I told you it was changing hands all before this virus came.  It's on.  Grab it while you can get all.  Remember this advise from me to you only because I love you dre and think you have a good heart.  The first shall be last and the last first. What you get today is your reward for all your efforts, good or evil.  Karma sorta.  I just came here because I love my dd.  
Man, let me to you something, yes you, and every man here at the fabulous forum, were all responsible for all this sh*t.  Stop blaming the white and everyone else.  We all have done bad.  Don;t listen to No either.  I'm praying for peace but this is all but that right now.  Our dd need us Dre, too many little boys and little girls born with no daddy or some just not born at all.  Some, like me, had no real dad.  My bio dad did this and that and then took off.  Left my bio mom all alone bro.  That is a loser right there where I come from.  I dont give a sh*t what color you are and what your religion is.  Man up and take some freaking responsibility.  Dude just gets up and leaves after he's done.  Some dudes pay and help out with the abortion and that's nice thing to do and at least they do it together.  Some kids need a dad too, is that too much to ask?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 11, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I’m Scottish too and I have a British passport. Tell your Jewish friend Jews are responsible for my success and have guided me throughout my career.
> I remember my first year at Hastings, I went to a female Jewish professors office hours and the only thing that she would ever talk to me about was returning to Israel to fight and getting married.  So, I kinda understand what you’re talking about.
> 
> Listen, I understand that the struggle is real and life is hard even if you are white.  Being black just adds another level of bullshit to life.
> ...


Serious question, why does al sharpton have white style hair?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Serious question, why does al sharpton have white style hair?


I saw Al cheating yesterday as he was painting BLM in front of t towers.  I must say that mayor has balls of steal.  Anyway, Rev Al had his nose outside of the mask.  Defeats the whole purpose.  No one said anything but I saw and I saw a few others cheating that way.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 11, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Serious question, why does al sharpton have white style hair?


Because he’s a victim and a product of a racist American system.  This is what happens when the system bombards kids with the lie of white male greatness and promotes white beauty standards.  So nowadays you have sick ass people of African descent bleaching their skin such as Michael Jackson and Sammy Sosa.  You also have folks with Afro-type hair chemically treating their hair to adhere to white beauty standards like Al Sharpton.  In the black community their is a caste system.  Many times a black persons success directly correlates with how light ones skin is and the texture of ones hair.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> Looks like someone was played.


You got played again.









						Nancy Pelosi Visits San Francisco's Chinatown Amid Coronavirus Concerns
					

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi toured San Francisco’s Chinatown Monday to send a message. She said there’s no reason tourists or locals should be staying away from the area because of coronavirus concerns.




					www.nbcbayarea.com
				




Who said anything about a tweet? It wasn't me. Chinese nationals were banned from entering the u.s. in january. In february Pelosi is out telling people in crowds to not be scared of the virus in San franciscos chinatown. Facts. It was democrat leadership that was obviously not taking it seriously. Especially after calling trump racist for restricting travel. You and the left leaning media can twist it all you want to fit your narrative, but facts are pelosi and de blasio didn't take the virus seriously when they were in chinatown telling people to come out. Democrat leadership actually caused people to die in nursing homes. Facts.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Liar. Racist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No body said anything about a tweet. The fact is trump banned chinese nationals from entering the u.s. in january. Nancy pelosi and de blasio were in their respective chinatowns telling people to come out in large crowds and that the coronavirus was not a concern.









						Nancy Pelosi Visits San Francisco's Chinatown Amid Coronavirus Concerns
					

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi toured San Francisco’s Chinatown Monday to send a message. She said there’s no reason tourists or locals should be staying away from the area because of coronavirus concerns.




					www.nbcbayarea.com
				




Are you seriously saying pelosi didn't tell people to worry about coronavirus in San franciscos chinatown in february?  You seriously got tricked into thinking she didn't put people in danger because a claim about a tweet was wrong lol


----------



## espola (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> You got played again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What does any of that have to do with removing statues honoring racists and traitors?


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Trump got China right only because he’s racist.  He fucked up by not banning folks from Europe.  Why did your analysis not mention Europe smarty pants?


He did ban travel for Europeans.









						Trump suspends travel from Europe for 30 days in response to coronavirus outbreak
					

Trump said the U.S. would suspend travel from Europe for 30 days, a dramatic escalation of the federal government’s response to the coronavirus outbreak.




					www.statnews.com
				




The fact is WHO delayed the emergency status and they claimed china had it under control and that the Hotspot was in China. When our "experts" finally got more info they banned Europe as well.


----------



## espola (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> He did ban travel for Europeans.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love it when you include "the fact is" in your posts.

Did we hit 12000 deaths yet?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> What does any of that have to do with removing statues honoring racists and traitors?


Their liars Espy, that's what it's got to do with it.  Plus, she said anyone can take down any statue anytime just because.  I hate Kareem because he didnt hustle enough.  So according to Nancy, I can go down to Staples and knock Kareem and his sky hook out of here with one kick?  Btw, I would never do that to Kareem's statue but I would Larry Bird and not because he's white.  I hate the Celtics and they need to rid themselves of all their white players.  In fact, all those championships off of Russell's back should come down, like now!!!


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> What does any of that have to do with removing statues honoring racists and traitors?


I think your lost again espola, that response was started in response to GT45 saying trump didn't act quickly enough to covid when the facts are democrat leadership were ignoring trump mitigating measures.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> I love it when you include "the fact is" in your posts.
> 
> Did we hit 12000 deaths yet?


Are you disputing the facts of China ban and Europe ban? You obviously don't look up facts so I got to spoon feed it to you. This isn't the first time I had to educate you espola.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> What does any of that have to do with removing statues honoring racists and traitors?


Oh Magoo....did you forget what argument you were having again?


----------



## espola (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Are you disputing the facts of China ban and Europe ban? You obviously don't look up facts so I got to spoon feed it to you. This isn't the first time I had to educate you espola.


Coocoo.


----------



## espola (Jul 11, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Oh Magoo....did you forget what argument you were having again?


Argument?  I made a statement about statues and ms12k started ranting about Pelosi.  You can look it up.

Please don't stop him/her.  I want to see where this leads.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> Coocoo.


Says the 80 year old with grown kids no longer in youth soccer. What are you even doing on this forum? Any info you could give would be decades old. Is it because your kids and grandkids don't visit anymore? Lol


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Oh Magoo....did you forget what argument you were having again?


Playing three people is hard to do.  I know I'm all over the place emotionally and he coulndt deal with me.  I know who he is.  So obvious.  I know the others too.  Dr Fauci said yesterday he has nothing to lie about and always tells the truth.  However, he told us all to not worry about a mask early on. This guy is so all over the place it's scary.  Come on NYC and LA, whats going on you guys?  I have teachers afraid for their careers if they speak up. All for one and one for all!!!


----------



## espola (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> BE NETBUL
> Says the 80 year old with grown kids no longer in youth soccer. What are you even doing on this forum? Any info you could give would be decades old. Is it because your kids and grandkids don't visit anymore? Lol


Says the wannabe netbully who promised to leave if he lost a bet.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> Argument?  I made a statement about statues and ms12k started ranting about Pelosi.  You can look it up.
> 
> Please don't stop him/her.  I want to see where this leads.


Like I said, you're lost old man. I wasn't responding to you dumb statue arugment.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> Says the wannabe netbully who promised to leave when he lost a bet.


again, why are you here? You're 80 years old with no kids playing soccer. Are you a pedo?

I found a picture of espola lol


----------



## espola (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> again, why are you here? You're 80 years old with no kids playing soccer. Are you a pedo?


What makes you feel that desperate?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> Says the wannabe netbully who promised to leave if he lost a bet.


Give it up dude.  It was a nice run.  Let;s fix this planet like you say you want to.  I'm all in!!!


----------



## MacDre (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> He did ban travel for Europeans.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Almost only counts in horseshoes.  This was a day late and a dollar short.  He also did not ban travel from the UK which is most likely the cause for the outbreak in NY.  The flight from London to NY is about the same as a flight from NY to SF or LA.  He dropped the ball pal!


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> What makes you feel that desperate?


No, just strange that an 80 year old like you is lurking in a forum for youth soccer when its been decades since you had kids playing.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Almost only counts in horseshoes.  This was a day late and a dollar short.  He also did not ban travel from the UK which is most likely the cause for the outbreak in NY.  The flight from London to NY is about the same as a flight from NY to SF or LA.  He dropped the ball pal!


Scroll back. You said trump didn't ban europe. That statement is either a lie, or you were misinformed. I was just correcting your statement.

Imagine if we had biden or bernie as president. They were against any restricted travel. No matter how many days late it was, it would have been worse if we had them in office.


----------



## espola (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> No, just strange that an 80 year old like you is lurking in a forum for youth soccer when its been decades since you had kids playing.


Decades?  One kid is still playing (or was until all the adult leagues were shut down) and the other was looking for a youth or HS coaching job.


----------



## espola (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Scroll back. You said trump didn't ban europe. That statement is either a lie, or you were misinformed. I was just correcting your statement.
> 
> Imagine if we had biden or bernie as president. They were against any restricted travel. No matter how many days late it was, it would have been worse if we had them in office.


"Imagine" is your strong suit.  Stick with it.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> Decades?  One kid is still playing (or was until all the adult leagues were shut down) and the other was looking for a youth or HS coaching job.


Your kids are not kids lol. Stop lurking, you're an 80 year old pedo lol.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> "Imagine" is your strong suit.  Stick with it.


Correction we don't have imagine what biden and bernie would have done. At the time of the banned travel, they both straight up said they would not have done it. They were behind the curve. You should thank trump.


----------



## espola (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Your kids are not kids lol. Stop lurking, you're an 80 year old pedo lol.


The last few liars that tried to bully me out of here with that kind of crap didn't succeed.  Why do you think you will?


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> The last few liars that tried to bully me out of here with that kind of crap didn't succeed.  Why do you think you will?


Not saying it will, just calling it like it is. You are well into retirement age with no kids playing youth soccer and lurking in a forum about youth soccer. Whats wrong with you? If you aren't a pedo, you certainly have pedo like tendancies.


----------



## espola (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Not saying it will, just calling it like it is. You are well into retirement age with no kids playing youth soccer and lurking in a forum about youth soccer. Whats wrong with you? If you aren't a pedo, you certainly have pedo like tendancies.


Perhaps you haven't noticed, but this forum is also about college soccer, adult soccer, and (more to the point) just about anything a poster wants to put up.  If you don't think so, why are you posting about politicians in a thread supposedly about returning to practice?

Take a look at the subforum titles here -- https://www.socalsoccer.com/

Have we reached 12,000 dead yet?


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> Perhaps you haven't noticed, but this forum is also about college soccer, adult soccer, and (more to the point) just about anything a poster wants to put up.  If you don't think so, why are you posting about politicians in a thread supposedly about returning to practice?
> 
> Take a look at the subforum titles here -- https://www.socalsoccer.com/
> 
> Have we reached 12,000 dead yet?


I pop in on occasion to see when my kids can "return to play" but here you are, an 80 year old with no kids in youth soccer in decades talking about statues. I respond to a few of your irrelevant posts which have nothing to do with soccer and then pop smoke. Why are you posting about statues on a "return to play" thread?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> Perhaps you haven't noticed, but this forum is also about college soccer, adult soccer, and (more to the point) just about anything a poster wants to put up.  If you don't think so, why are you posting about politicians in a thread supposedly about returning to practice?
> 
> Take a look at the subforum titles here -- https://www.socalsoccer.com/
> 
> *Have we reached 12,000 dead yet?*


Yes and its more than that and dude was off.  We were also told 2,000,000 would die if we dint shut down and figure out what we got.  How many serviceman killed themselves today ESPY and Messy?


----------



## espola (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> I pop in on occasion to see when my kids can "return to play" but here you are, an 80 year old with no kids in youth soccer in decades talking about statues. I respond to a few of your irrelevant posts which have nothing to do with soccer and then pop smoke. Why are you posting about statues on a "return to play" thread?


I was responding to another poster's comment.

Have we reached 12,000 dead yet?


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 11, 2020)

espola said:


> I was responding to another poster's comment.
> 
> Have we reached 12,000 dead yet?


Have we reached 2,000,000 deaths yet?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Have we reached 2,000,000 deaths yet?


did anyone say we would reach 2M dead despite a shutdown?

I think the Imperial College number was an estimate based on unrestricted growth and February/March 2020 treatment technology.

Last I checked, neither of those apply.


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 11, 2020)

Berkeley may be 1st U.S. city to propose eliminating police from traffic stops, enforcement
					

'Most traffic stops don't really warrant a police officer': In the East Bay, in what's believed to be a first in the nation proposal, the City of Berkeley has proposed ending police traffic enforcement.




					www.yahoo.com
				




We’re done. No point in arguing with libs. If we don’t like it, we should leave California. Or live with this fu**** insanity. Can’t wait until @EOTL and the rest of these ignorant libs have to call the police when all the people that their comrade Newsome is releasing run rampant in their neighborhood. I love and respect cops, but I don’t call 911, I handle it myself. Good luck to you psychos.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 11, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Berkeley may be 1st U.S. city to propose eliminating police from traffic stops, enforcement
> 
> 
> 'Most traffic stops don't really warrant a police officer': In the East Bay, in what's believed to be a first in the nation proposal, the City of Berkeley has proposed ending police traffic enforcement.
> ...


Have you lived in Australia or the UK?  It's very eye opening.


----------



## jellybelly71 (Jul 11, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Berkeley may be 1st U.S. city to propose eliminating police from traffic stops, enforcement
> 
> 
> 'Most traffic stops don't really warrant a police officer': In the East Bay, in what's believed to be a first in the nation proposal, the City of Berkeley has proposed ending police traffic enforcement.
> ...


Sorry for the Capt. Obvious query, but might you be a QAnon devotee, Anon9?


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 11, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Have you lived in Australia or the UK?  It's very eye opening.


I never have. But I would assume all those people are proud and love their country. Just like us Mexicans, proud of our flag. I can’t even imagine what would happen to somebody if they disrespected the Mexican flag in Mexico, or kneeled while they played the national anthem. And you wouldn’t know, cause that person wouldn’t live to tell it.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 11, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> I never have. But I would assume all those people are proud and love their country. Just like us Mexicans, proud of our flag. I can’t even imagine what would happen to somebody if they disrespected the Mexican flag in Mexico, or kneeled while they played the national anthem. And you wouldn’t know, cause that person wouldn’t live to tell it.


We are one of the most non-patriotic countries in the world.
Pathetic


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 11, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> We are one of the most non-patriotic countries in the world.
> Pathetic


And if you’re patriotic, you’re racist.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 11, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> And if you’re patriotic, you’re racist.


A red hat is racist, American Flag is racist, being white is a crime and you can’t arrest black people.
If this keeps up it will not end well.


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 11, 2020)

Mexicans born in America, as well as Cubans and other Latin people are proud Americans and wave the flag with pride, especially the one with a blue line. We love this country and would die for it. We understand what our parents left behind and why they risked their lives and left everything they had to give us a better future. So when I hear about “privelege”, I laugh and think that the only priveleged assholes are the ones that grew up “poor in a racist system”. What a freaking joke. They all had TV’s, PS3’s, a car, and free food. They have no idea what it means to be “poor”. I grew up in the ghetto of a city, and not only did my parents teach me respect, but taught me the importance of work and self-reliance. And I have done well for myself, and I’m a proud REPUBLICAN LATINO, just like many of my latino friends, that voted and support TRUMP, even when we have to sometimes deny it like when Judah denied Jesus. I never believed in the victim argument, that’s just an excuse for lazy people that don’t teach their kids respect and the value of work.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 11, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Mexicans born in America, as well as Cubans and other Latin people are proud Americans and wave the flag with pride, especially the one with a blue line. We love this country and would die for it. We understand what our parents left behind and why they risked their lives and left everything they had to give us a better future. So when I hear about “privelege”, I laugh and think that the only priveleged assholes are the ones that grew up “poor in a racist system”. What a freaking joke. They all had TV’s, PS3’s, a car, and free food. They have no idea what it means to be “poor”. I grew up in the ghetto of a city, and not only did my parents teach me respect, but taught me the importance of work and self-reliance. And I have done well for myself, and I’m a proud REPUBLICAN LATINO, just like many of my latino friends, that voted and support TRUMP, even when we have to sometimes deny it like when Judah denied Jesus. I never believed in the victim argument, that’s just an excuse for lazy people that don’t teach their kids respect and the value of work.


I can’t identify, but I appreciate anyone that loves America, shows respect and appreciates how lucky we are to live here.


----------



## met61 (Jul 11, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Trump got China right only because he’s racist.  He fucked up by not banning folks from Europe.  Why did your analysis not mention Europe smarty pants?


Ah, the race card again - Shocked!


----------



## met61 (Jul 11, 2020)

GT45 said:


> Not even close. I do my homework. Is there anything I said that was not truthful? He lies daily to the American people. He speaks to uneducated to garner their vote. Apparently that is you.


Ah, the old "I know you are but what am I" retort. Brilliant!  #spankedass


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 11, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Have you lived in Australia or the UK?  It's very eye opening.


Why did all these people flee the UK and other places to come to America?  It's time for Neil the rest of the night. Happy belated 4th of July everyone!!!


----------



## MacDre (Jul 11, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Mexicans born in America, as well as Cubans and other Latin people are proud Americans and wave the flag with pride, especially the one with a blue line. We love this country and would die for it. We understand what our parents left behind and why they risked their lives and left everything they had to give us a better future. So when I hear about “privelege”, I laugh and think that the only priveleged assholes are the ones that grew up “poor in a racist system”. What a freaking joke. They all had TV’s, PS3’s, a car, and free food. They have no idea what it means to be “poor”. I grew up in the ghetto of a city, and not only did my parents teach me respect, but taught me the importance of work and self-reliance. And I have done well for myself, and I’m a proud REPUBLICAN LATINO, just like many of my latino friends, that voted and support TRUMP, even when we have to sometimes deny it like when Judah denied Jesus. I never believed in the victim argument, that’s just an excuse for lazy people that don’t teach their kids respect and the value of work.
> 
> Why did your parents leave Mexico to live in the ghetto of America?


----------



## met61 (Jul 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> again, why are you here? You're 80 years old with no kids playing soccer. Are you a pedo?
> 
> I found a picture of espola lol


- and the freak types with one hand.


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 11, 2020)

Because the ghetto in the US is paradise compared to real life in a lot of countries including Mexico.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 11, 2020)

met61 said:


> Ah, the race card again - Shocked!


And your counter?  Pointing out xenophobic behavior is not playing the race card.


Anon9 said:


> Because the ghetto in the US is paradise compared to real life in a lot of countries including Mexico.


Very interesting.  What ghetto paradise did you grow up in the USA?  What part of Mexico are you from?


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 11, 2020)

MacDre said:


> And your counter?  Pointing out xenophobic behavior is not playing the race card.
> 
> Very interesting.  What ghetto paradise did you grow up in the USA?  What part of Mexico are you from?


A paradise is a home without leaky roofs, with running and warm water, and food consistently on the table. Our visits back to my dads home town in Jalisco consisted of water wells about 40-50ft deep where we had to bring water up with a bucket, we had to boil water to shower with warm water, and place buckets under leaky roofs. And don’t even get me started with how I felt seeing my cousins work albañil jobs for $250 pesos a day.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 11, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> A paradise is a home without leaky roofs, with running and warm water, and food consistently on the table. Our visits back to my dads home town in Jalisco consisted of water wells about 40-50ft deep where we had to bring water up with a bucket, we had to boil water to shower with warm water, and place buckets under leaky roofs. And don’t even get me started with how I felt seeing my cousins work albañil jobs for $250 pesos a day.


If your “poorest” cousin in rural Jalisco is making $250 pesitos a day (which is good money by the way) their standard of living is much higher than folks in rural areas and inner city ghettos in the US.


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 11, 2020)

MacDre said:


> If your “poorest” cousin in rural Jalisco is making $250 pesitos a day (which is good money by the way) their standard of living is much higher than folks in rural areas and inner city ghettos in the US.


Checkmate. You win. I can’t argue with that. As a last parting shot, I assume you mean people who don’t work and are relying on the Democrats I mean government to support them. By the way I have cousins that live better than I do on CalFresh, EBT, Welfare, section 8, and hefty tax returns. I can’t blame them I guess.........


----------



## Mosafie (Jul 11, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Berkeley may be 1st U.S. city to propose eliminating police from traffic stops, enforcement
> 
> 
> 'Most traffic stops don't really warrant a police officer': In the East Bay, in what's believed to be a first in the nation proposal, the City of Berkeley has proposed ending police traffic enforcement.
> ...


I guess you never heard of a traffic camera. Other countries they dont need police to enforce traffic violation. Try a trip to Japan, Holland, UK, Germany etc.

Traffic cops are a inefficient because they cant be everywhere unlike traffic cameras.

Cameras also dont care what skin color or how rich the drivers are. 

Traffic cops will disappear in the next decade anyway as self driving cars all but eliminate traffic violation. Progress.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Checkmate. You win. I can’t argue with that. As a last parting shot, I assume you mean people who don’t work and are relying on the Democrats I mean government to support them. By the way I have cousins that live better than I do on CalFresh, EBT, Welfare, section 8, and hefty tax returns. I can’t blame them I guess.........


How could someone be on section 8, have an ebt card, receive welfare AND receive a hefty tax return?  Doesn’t one have to have a hefty job to receive a hefty tax return?  Are you Russian?


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> How could someone be on section 8, have an ebt card, receive welfare AND receive a hefty tax return?  Doesn’t one have to have a hefty job to receive a hefty tax return?  Are you Russian?


When they have 5 kids.


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 12, 2020)

Mosafie said:


> I guess you never heard of a traffic camera. Other countries they dont need police to enforce traffic violation. Try a trip to Japan, Holland, UK, Germany etc.
> 
> Traffic cops are a inefficient because they cant be everywhere unlike traffic cameras.
> 
> ...


So you are telling me that Berkeley’s intention is to enforce the rule of law?


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> How could someone be on section 8, have an ebt card, receive welfare AND receive a hefty tax return?  Doesn’t one have to have a hefty job to receive a hefty tax return?  Are you Russian?


Dre, seriously, it’s ok man. I’m done. It is what it is. Good luck to you and your daughter. I love Tijuana and Rosarito, especially when we go down to Surf Cup. Im from nothern Cali, so we don’t go down there that often, but when we do, ah man, Rosarito is the shit. I’ve never felt like a king with $100 before, and that’s how it is down there at the beach.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 12, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Dre, seriously, it’s ok man. I’m done. It is what it is. Good luck to you and your daughter. I love Tijuana and Rosarito, especially when we go down to Surf Cup. Im from nothern Cali, so we don’t go down there that often, but when we do, ah man, Rosarito is the shit. I’ve never felt like a king with $100 before, and that’s how it is down there at the beach.


My buddy from my hoops day is a minister in Rosarito.  I swear his family is as white as they come.  All of them are blond devils helping with food and shelter.  Amazing how white devils try and help brown people.  He's been helping the folks down there for almost 25 years.  San Miguel is the place I stayed at in my glory days.  Here's how my three days of paradise went.  Surf, surf and surf some more.  Go into Hussongs and party and then pick up a case of Corona's for more fun.  I would get these hot dogs wrapped in bacon and fall asleep and do it again the next day.  True story.  All my friends and campers partied one night and I didn;t.  I had a plan.  I got up before dawn and hit San Miguel all by myself for at least one hour.  It was head high and it's still to this day the best surfing I ever had.  One wave after another.  I got out and made me some breakfast and back to sleep


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> How could someone be on section 8, have an ebt card, receive welfare AND receive a hefty tax return?  Doesn’t one have to have a hefty job to receive a hefty tax return?  Are you Russian?


Many of my employees pay no income tax and get refunds.


----------



## MarkM (Jul 12, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Many of my employees pay no income tax and get refunds.


You should pay your employees more.  Those making over 10K a year pay federal income tax.  Couples that make over 20K a year pay federal income tax.  They may receive a credit or other breaks, but they pay their taxes with those credits.  Likewise, neither Trump or Amazon have paid taxes for years (or ever) based on credits and other breaks.


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 12, 2020)

MarkM said:


> You should pay your employees more.  Those making over 10K a year pay federal income tax.  Couples that make over 20K a year pay federal income tax.  They may receive a credit or other breaks, but they pay their taxes with those credits.  Likewise, neither Trump or Amazon have paid taxes for years (or ever) based on credits and other breaks.


They pay no imcome tax because they mark down 6 dependants on their tax employment form, and they still come out ahead at tax time. Sometimes, $7k ahead.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 12, 2020)

MarkM said:


> You should pay your employees more.  Those making over 10K a year pay federal income tax.  Couples that make over 20K a year pay federal income tax.  They may receive a credit or other breaks, but they pay their taxes with those credits.  Likewise, neither Trump or Amazon have paid taxes for years (or ever) based on credits and other breaks.


Sorry, this was pre trump tax cuts.


----------



## whatithink (Jul 12, 2020)

Mosafie said:


> Cameras also dont care what skin color or how rich the drivers are.


I like the system in Finland, where the fine is based on your income, so the richer you are, the more you pay - and this is for traffic fines. I recall a very rich dude having to pay a fine of $70K or something ... for speeding I think.









						In Finland, speeding tickets are linked to your income
					

In Finland, penalties for traffic violations are pegged to taxable income, resulting in some headline-grabbing fines. It’s a model that has also been adopted in other European countries.




					www.weforum.org


----------



## TOSDCI (Jul 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Because he’s a victim and a product of a racist American system.  This is what happens when the system bombards kids with the lie of white male greatness and promotes white beauty standards.  So nowadays you have sick ass people of African descent bleaching their skin such as Michael Jackson and Sammy Sosa.  You also have folks with Afro-type hair chemically treating their hair to adhere to white beauty standards like Al Sharpton.  In the black community their is a caste system.  Many times a black persons success directly correlates with how light ones skin is and the texture of ones hair.


FYI....Sammy Sosa is from the Dominican Republic.  He didn't come to the US until he was drafted.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 12, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> FYI....Sammy Sosa is from the Dominican Republic.  He didn't come to the US until he was drafted.


Sammy Sosa is a descendant of slaves, colonialism, and white supremacy.  How do you think Africans got to the Dominican Republic?

I’m confused about what you a trying to say.  Could you please elaborate?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> South Vallejo Ain’t all bad.  Have you seen the views from the Maritime Academy?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Vallejo is a cesspool.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Full confession.  I hate the thought of Orange County but I actually had one of greatest acts of kindness extended to me by a white guy in Orange County.


Not enough crime and graffiti there for you?


----------



## TOSDCI (Jul 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Sammy Sosa is a descendant of slaves, colonialism, and white supremacy.  How do you think Africans got to the Dominican Republic?
> 
> I’m confused about what you a trying to say.  Could you please elaborate?


He wouldn't have been influenced by the systemic racism of the US which caused him to want to conform to the "white" idea of beauty. Per your account, that's the reason for his behavior.  If he grew up in DR, the majority of citizens are black so the standard of beauty would be determined by that population.  FYI...Michael Jackson had vitiligo which caused light colored spots on his skin.  That is why he bleached his skin.  In addition, he obviously had a lot of other issues unrelated to being black which tainted his behavior.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Sammy Sosa is a descendant of slaves, colonialism, and white supremacy.  How do you think Africans got to the Dominican Republic?
> 
> I’m confused about what you a trying to say.  Could you please elaborate?


Read up on Dominican Republic history.  It is different from the rest of the Carribean.  You'd find it interesting.  Their path was mixed with Haiti's.

It means the late colonial period wasn't colonial at all.  Nor was it about slavery.  The whole island won independence.  

The problems had more to do with debt, lack of civil institutions, and overmilitarization.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 13, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> He wouldn't have been influenced by the systemic racism of the US which caused him to want to conform to the "white" idea of beauty. Per your account, that's the reason for his behavior.  If he grew up in DR, the majority of citizens are black so the standard of beauty would be determined by that population.  FYI...Michael Jackson had vitiligo which caused light colored spots on his skin.  That is why he bleached his skin.  In addition, he obviously had a lot of other issues unrelated to being black which tainted his behavior.


Okay, you obviously don’t know much about slavery and the plight of blacks.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 13, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Read up on Dominican Republic history.  It is different from the rest of the Carribean.  You'd find it interesting.  Their path was mixed with Haiti's.
> 
> It means the late colonial period wasn't colonial at all.  Nor was it about slavery.  The whole island won independence.
> 
> The problems had more to do with debt, lack of civil institutions, and overmilitarization.


Okay, if you say so.  So more white His-story and ethnocentrism to save the day.  How did Africans get to the DR?

Haitians revolted against the French not the Spanish and are paying for it to this day. All of the Caribbean, including the Bahamas where my family is from is ran by white folks.
What’s your opinion as to why there is a caste system in the DR?  Why do folks from the DR hate Haitians? Finally, why does the British government have records of having to free my Bahamian uncles (who were never slaves) because they were captured by the Spanish and taken to Cuba and the DR as slaves?


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> How could someone be on section 8, have an ebt card, receive welfare AND receive a hefty tax return?  Doesn’t one have to have a hefty job to receive a hefty tax return?  Are you Russian?


...you forgot; "all without the ability to obtain an ID to produce for voting."

BTW, I like Russian dressing and vodka...go ahead, let me have it.


----------



## TOSDCI (Jul 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Okay, you obviously don’t know much about slavery and the plight of blacks.


I actually do. However, I really don't want to get into a debate about it on a soccer forum.  I simply wanted to point out the Sammy Sosa was not born in the US.  You obviously have a personal narrative by which you are defining yourself so spending more time on this is pointless.  Take care!


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 13, 2020)

MarkM said:


> You should pay your employees more.  Those making over 10K a year pay federal income tax.  Couples that make over 20K a year pay federal income tax.  They may receive a credit or other breaks, but they pay their taxes with those credits.  Likewise, neither Trump or Amazon have paid taxes for years (or ever) based on credits and other breaks.


...just Amazon and Trump? care to name some Dems, or nah?


----------



## Justkickinit (Jul 13, 2020)

Yet another hijacked thread...  some of you people really need a hobby... or go run for local office and see if anyone really wants to listen to any of you. They just may... ‍


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 13, 2020)

Justkickinit said:


> Yet another hijacked thread...  some of you people really need a hobby... or go run for local office and see if anyone really wants to listen to any of you. They just may... ‍♂


...yet here you are, is this a hobby?


----------



## lafalafa (Jul 13, 2020)

Citing surging cases, the Los Angeles and San Diego school districts will be remote-only in the fall.








						A Record 5.4 Million Americans Have Lost Health Insurance, Study Finds (Published 2020)
					

California’s governor announced a sweeping rollback of the state’s reopening and Los Angeles and San Diego school districts will be online-only in the fall. Dr. Anthony Fauci returned to the White House.




					www.nytimes.com
				




This is going to have a potential big impact on families and field availability.

What kind of fall season is possible now? Facility availability seems like a bottleneck at this point not even going into the guidelines.


----------



## Justkickinit (Jul 13, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> ...yet here you are, is this a hobby?


Hardly. Was simply looking for some outside info or perhaps something different then what I know or have heard regarding the current soccer environment and experiences of returning to play. There are other threads for your discussions. Simply desiring potential information that pertains to the thread title. I’d imagine others would agree.


----------



## notintheface (Jul 13, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> What kind of fall season is possible now? Facility availability seems like a bottleneck at this point not even going into the guidelines.


None. There aren't enough fields to practice on. There aren't enough fields to play on. Even in the smaller communities where maybe there are enough fields, the discrepancy between communities means any kind of scheduling is impossible. We're done for 2020.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Okay, if you say so.  So more white His-story and ethnocentrism to save the day.  How did Africans get to the DR?
> 
> Haitians revolted against the French not the Spanish and are paying for it to this day. All of the Caribbean, including the Bahamas where my family is from is ran by white folks.
> What’s your opinion as to why there is a caste system in the DR?  Why do folks from the DR hate Haitians? Finally, why does the British government have records of having to free my Bahamian uncles (who were never slaves) because they were captured by the Spanish and taken to Cuba and the DR as slaves?


You took a country that has been mostly black ruled for almost 200 years, and tried to make it a story about white men.   And then accused me of ethnocentrism.  Show some respect to the people of DR.  It’s their story, not mine.

Your uncles probably were freed during the brief period of restored Spanish rule between 1861 and 1865.  Spain tried to retake some colonies it had lost during the post-Napoleonic era.  It didn’t work out too well for them.

Haiti invaded DR just after the Haitian war of liberation, which was an ugly four way fight between slaves, France, Spain, and England.  Haiti‘s military occupied DR for decades, which may be part of where the animosity comes from.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 13, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You took a country that has been mostly black ruled for almost 200 years, and tried to make it a story about white men.   And then accused me of ethnocentrism.  Show some respect to the people of DR.  It’s their story, not mine.
> 
> Your uncles probably were freed during the brief period of restored Spanish rule between 1861 and 1865.  Spain tried to retake some colonies it had lost during the post-Napoleonic era.  It didn’t work out too well for them.
> 
> Haiti invaded DR just after the Haitian war of liberation, which was an ugly four way fight between slaves, France, Spain, and England.  Haiti‘s military occupied DR for decades, which may be part of where the animosity comes from.


Why does the DR have a caste system similar to India?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Why does the DR have a caste system similar to India?


I really dont know.   Spanish colonies had the whole purity of the blood theory.  But I never thought if it as caste-like.  I always thought it was just classic racial discrimination.

Have a great week.


----------



## lafalafa (Jul 15, 2020)

### Please update your current vote/ status so we know where we all stand currently.

On that note us soccer has release at update to return to play:








						U.S. Soccer releases final phase of return | Club Soccer | Youth Soccer
					

U.S. Soccer has released the final phase of its five-phase PLAY ON campaign, providing coaches, players, parents, referees and administrators with the complete return-to-play guidelines during COVID-19 to help ensure the safety of all participants.




					www.topdrawersoccer.com
				




If that article is correct in referencing this and it's followed

"Each phase should follow sequentially, with Phase I suggested to last four-six weeks and Phase II three-six weeks before progressing to Phase III"

We would be 7-12 weeks out once started which we haven't yet for MLS Leagues teams for example.  In other words October would seem be the earliest start for games but I haven't looked into the details just yet.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 30, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Despite substantially more cases since we opened up May 11 or so, deaths are only up marginally. Pre open up our highest deaths per day was 28. We have hit 38 as the max now.
> 
> Cal is seeing the same thing. Large spikes in positive cases and yet deaths remain fairly flat.
> 
> ...


Well this didn’t age well.  174 dead in AZ in a single day, a new record! CA also just broke its previous high for deaths in a single day. 174 is more than 38 right? How many people in AZ need to go see Herman Cain every day before you admit you’re an idiot?


----------



## EOTL (Jul 30, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Dude...or should I say dad4. You are always the Prophet of Doom. 1 to 2 months ago you assured us all that GA and FL were sending their residents across the Styx. That petered out and you don't mention them much anymore.
> 
> Now you are on to AZ and if I recall correctly TX.
> 
> ...


So glad Covid-19 petered out, especially in Florida. 30 deaths a day is about the same as 252 right? And good thing AZ opening up has only resulted in 30 or so deaths a day - if you don’t count the other 140.

How high do these numbers need to get before you agree that AZ’s plan was stupid?


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 30, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Well this didn’t age well.  174 dead in AZ in a single day, a new record! CA also just broke its previous high for deaths in a single day. 174 is more than 38 right? How many people in AZ need to go see Herman Cain every day before you admit you’re an idiot?


You are not too bright. That is not a single day high. 

Deaths get reported at different times. So that 174 number is spread out over a number of days. 

AZ still shows as its highest day 80 people. 

We are on the down side of the positive curves now. Cal who has stricter measures in place saw a spike in cases. 

The countries you love to point too as examples of getting it right...France, Spain, Germany are all experiencing spikes again. Hong Kong is having issues again. 

It is going to happen. You cannot stay locked down for some indeterminate amount of time...which seems to be your preferred plan. 

I know you like to hide in the basement and hug your dolls, but at some point you have to get off your ass and start living life again.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 30, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> You are not too bright. That is not a single day high.
> 
> Deaths get reported at different times. So that 174 number is spread out over a number of days.
> 
> ...


Sure. But let’s assume for the sake of argument that reopening is only killing 80 people a day. 80 is the new 30?

How many people need to die every day before it’s too many for you?  100, 1000, everyone?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 30, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> You are not too bright. That is not a single day high.
> 
> Deaths get reported at different times. So that 174 number is spread out over a number of days.
> 
> ...


Yeah, Germany is really up a creek now.  They were up to five deaths yesterday.  So was Spain.  France was up to fifteen.  Hong Kong had one, too.  That’s 26 deaths out of a combined population of over 200 million.  Not sure they can come back after that kind of horrific spike.

Why couldn’t they be sensible and do things like Arizona?


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 30, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Sure. But let’s assume for the sake of argument that reopening is only killing 80 people a day. 80 is the new 30?
> 
> How many people need to die every day before it’s too many for you?  100, 1000, everyone?


I’m not that smart, but didn’t Hillary kill like 80 people a day in Benghazi?


----------



## EOTL (Jul 30, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> I’m not that smart, but didn’t Hillary kill like 80 people a day in Benghazi?


Technically It would need to be over 1,000 a day now for MAGATs to keep deflecting.


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 30, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Yeah, Germany is really up a creek now.  They were up to five deaths yesterday.  So was Spain.  France was up to fifteen.  Hong Kong had one, too.  That’s 26 deaths out of a combined population of over 200 million.  Not sure they can come back after that kind of horrific spike.
> 
> Why couldn’t they be sensible and do things like Arizona?


Deaths lag 3-4 weeks after infections.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 30, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Deaths lag 3-4 weeks after infections.


Ok.  We can look at infections.

Those four countries combined for fewer than half as many infections as California, despite having more than five times the population.

Pick any metric you like.  Germany, Spain, France, and Hong Kong are doing far better than we are.  It's completely misleading to say that their "spike" proves they are doing it wrong.  Their spike is better than our best day.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 30, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Yeah, Germany is really up a creek now.  They were up to five deaths yesterday.  So was Spain.  France was up to fifteen.  Hong Kong had one, too.  That’s 26 deaths out of a combined population of over 200 million.  Not sure they can come back after that kind of horrific spike.
> 
> Why couldn’t they be sensible and do things like Arizona?


All the countries are going to see a rise in positives and a rise in deaths. 

The virus hasn't magically disappeared. 

Time to start living with the risk and managing those at risk (80+ individuals make up 50% of all deaths). 

I know you want to hang out until some vaccine comes around. But we don't know how long that will be, how effective it will be, etc. 

In the meantime kids suffer, business gets hammered, tax revenues plummet (which brings about other issues), etc.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 30, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Deaths lag 3-4 weeks after infections.


It’s funny how MAGATs initially claimed that looking at cases was misleading and inappropriate because they were overstated and also due to allegedly low mortality rates, but now they need to point to cases to distract from the bodies piling up.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 30, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> You are not too bright. That is not a single day high.
> 
> Deaths get reported at different times. So that 174 number is spread out over a number of days.
> 
> ...


Not a spike


Not a spike



Spike.


----------



## socalkdg (Jul 30, 2020)

So tired of everyone blaming others.   Trust me Trumps Rally's and BLM protests spread the virus.  As is everyone else.    

4.6 million haven't come down with the virus, 20-30 million people have.   The CDC stated the actual count was 5-10x the listed amount.  Testing results in about 8% showing the virus.  The NHL and NFL tests of players coming into their first practice show a 7% count of presumed healthy people having the virus.   Time to start believing that 1 out of 12 people you see have it.

Really believe it is young males and females, ages 16-30, all races, of both parties, that is spreading this the most.   

Last night at the park.   30 guys playing and watching basketball on two courts, no masks.   Ages 16-30,  different races.   This is the main demographic that I see in an ordinary day not wearing masks at a store.   They aren't going to change.   They are democrats and republicans.  They are young, invulnerable, enjoying life.  Maybe we will get lucky that enough will get it and get over it and this will slow down the spread.  

Both kids starting remotely.  All grandparents still stuck at home.   20% layoff at my company and now working 32 hours.   We are all screwed right now.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 30, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> All the countries are going to see a rise in positives and a rise in deaths.
> 
> The virus hasn't magically disappeared.
> 
> ...


Let's make it a bet.  On the day the US first approves a covid  vaccine, we look at covid deaths per capita for Arizona and Germany.

If Germany has more covid deaths per million population, I owe you a case of IPA.

If Arizona has more covid deaths per million population, you owe me a case of IPA.

Deal?


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 30, 2020)

Looking at the CA dashboard. Almost all of the populous counties down south show signs of cases per day plateauing except Ventura county and San Bernardino. Unfortunately, pretty much all the rest of CA including the populous counties in northern CA are trending up. The ones trending up are definitely lower volume, but cases are still moving in the wrong direction.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 30, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> I’m not that smart, but didn’t Hillary kill like 80 people a day in Benghazi?


Not sure, let’s ask this guy,
Douche Bag


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 30, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Let's make it a bet.  On the day the US first approves a covid  vaccine, we look at covid deaths per capita for Arizona and Germany.
> 
> If Germany has more covid deaths per million population, I owe you a case of IPA.
> 
> ...


Why make a bet when I am already behind? 

Here is the question I never get from you. How long do you hide out? A year? 2?

We don't know if a vaccine comes about. Hopefully soon. But we dont know. 

So how long do we let gov pick which biz can be open? How long do we keep our kids out of school? 

At what point do YOU say OK we need to deal with the risk and move on?

I am curious on that. You and the others have never said. How long?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 30, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Why make a bet when I am already behind?
> 
> Here is the question I never get from you. How long do you hide out? A year? 2?
> 
> ...


Nov 3rd


----------



## dad4 (Jul 30, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Why make a bet when I am already behind?
> 
> Here is the question I never get from you. How long do you hide out? A year? 2?
> 
> ...


How long depends on what rules we have and to what extent we follow the rules.

For Germany, it took about 2-3 months.  Their rules were enforced and followed.  

If you want to be able to protest, wear no mask, and hold small parties, expect it to last until a vaccine is administered.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 30, 2020)

So sad.  Not sure who pulled the trigger on them, but this is happening at 600% more than before Corona.  Well, that's what those fake Docs said the other day.  Bummer the kids had to die.









						3 children among family of 5 found dead in Ohio home; police investigating as apparent murder-suicide: report
					

Three Ohio children were among the five family members found dead in a home early Wednesday, an incident that police are reportedly investigating as an apparent murder-suicide.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 30, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Well this didn’t age well.  174 dead in AZ in a single day, a new record! CA also just broke its previous high for deaths in a single day. 174 is more than 38 right? How many people in AZ need to go see Herman Cain every day before you admit you’re an idiot?


Or you could be full of shit and miss THIS quote: * "Officials say deaths do not all occur on the same day but are often the results of reviewing death certificates going back weeks."*  Looks like your failure to read hasn't aged well, either.









						COVID-19 cases leveling off in Arizona, once a virus hotspot for the U.S.
					

The Arizona Department of Health Services said on July 28 that there have been another 104 known deaths and 2,107 additional confirmed COVID-19 cases.




					www.fox10phoenix.com


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 30, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Sure. But let’s assume for the sake of argument that reopening is only killing 80 people a day. 80 is the new 30?
> 
> How many people need to die every day before it’s too many for you?  100, 1000, everyone?


Sure... but let's assume, for the sake of argument, you STILL wanted to tap dance and forgot your tap shoes.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 30, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Deaths lag 3-4 weeks after infections.


Shhh... the Rainbow Warrior is on a roll.


----------



## MK47 (Jul 30, 2020)

Casual observer, I will readily admit that many of you on here are much much smarter than me. I think it's interesting to come here and review the data that's being posted and listen to the multiple points of views. Here's something I caught on television this morning that covers many of the things being discussed here in this thread:









						Dr. Kelly Victory insists people ignore the hysteria over rising case numbers -
					

SAN DIEGO (KUSI) – Kelly Victory, MD, is a board-certified trauma and emergency specialist with over 15 years of clinical experience. She served as CMO for Whole Health Management, delivering on-site healthcare services for Fortune 500 companies. She holds a BS from Duke University and her MD...




					www.kusi.com


----------



## dad4 (Jul 30, 2020)

MK47 said:


> Casual observer, I will readily admit that many of you on here are much much smarter than me. I think it's interesting to come here and review the data that's being posted and listen to the multiple points of views. Here's something I caught on television this morning that covers many of the things being discussed here in this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wouldn't ask my barber to fix my car.  Why ask a trauma surgeon for infectious disease advice?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 30, 2020)

MK47 said:


> Casual observer, I will readily admit that many of you on here are much much smarter than me. I think it's interesting to come here and review the data that's being posted and listen to the multiple points of views. Here's something I caught on television this morning that covers many of the things being discussed here in this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow... "80-85% that contract the virus see little or no symptoms and death rates are coming down."  That's pretty incredible if accurate.


----------



## espola (Jul 30, 2020)

MK47 said:


> Casual observer, I will readily admit that many of you on here are much much smarter than me. I think it's interesting to come here and review the data that's being posted and listen to the multiple points of views. Here's something I caught on television this morning that covers many of the things being discussed here in this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is "MK47" a new name for one of our long-time posters?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 30, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I wouldn't ask my barber to fix my car.  Why ask a trauma surgeon for infectious disease advice?


I'd agree with this but she's in the pit... in the know and shouldn't be discounted because of that.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 30, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288599827316645889


----------



## notintheface (Jul 30, 2020)

Let's just be clear, Arizona is up to 1.2 9/11s, correct?


----------



## espola (Jul 30, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I wouldn't ask my barber to fix my car.  Why ask a trauma surgeon for infectious disease advice?


She throws out a lot of numbers, and cautions people to accept things in the media only "in context".

Here is some context --

Dr. Victory (what a great name for a Doctor in California, by the way) is a frequent interviewee on KUSI.
USI is owned through intermediate companies by the McKinnon family of Texas
The McKinnon family is long-time contributor to Republican political campaigns, including that of Donald Trump.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 30, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1288599827316645889


Not sure why but I imagine Dre doing that in his "homie" voice.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 30, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Shhh... the Rainbow Warrior is on a roll.
> 
> View attachment 8392


Bigot.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 30, 2020)

espola said:


> She throws out a lot of numbers, and cautions people to accept things in the media only "in context".
> 
> Here is some context --
> 
> ...


You're right, Ebola.  The media knows a fuck of a lot more than a doctor that's a friend of a friend of a friend that knows someone.

She threw out "80-85% of people with Covid show little or no symptoms."  That's pretty straightforward for "a lot of numbers."


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 30, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Bigot.


Sorry, candied ass, but you embarrassed yourself.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 30, 2020)

The Orange County Health Care Agency  reported 439 new cases of the coronavirus as of Wednesday, July 29.

But for the* third day in a row*, county officials posted a note on social media that it was “experiencing an issue processing electronic reports from some labs. As a result,* there are reduced tests and cases reported due to the delay with receiving these reports.” It said the issue is on the state’s end.*

No deaths one day and then 23 the next day, then 4, then zero, then 24.  LA Times has a field day when OC has 23 deaths to report "for a day" but then small note at the bottom somewhere to say the reporting is a mess and or gets behind.  It's just math and numbers stuff, nothing to actually look deeper at.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 30, 2020)

MK47 said:


> Casual observer, I will readily admit that many of you on here are much much smarter than me. I think it's interesting to come here and review the data that's being posted and listen to the multiple points of views. Here's something I caught on television this morning that covers many of the things being discussed here in this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bothsides-ism is getting people killed. She’s an idiot with self-esteem problems who is desperately seeking attention.









						Colorado candidate campaigns with doctor who shared coronavirus conspiracy theories
					

Republican congressional candidate Steve House held a virtual campaign event Tuesday with a doctor who has spread conspiracy theories about the coronavirus.




					www.denverpost.com


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 30, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Bothsides-ism is getting people killed. She’s an idiot with self-esteem problems who is desperately seeking attention.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah... she's a learned physician nowhere NEAR as intelligent as you.  Maybe, if she really seeks attention, she should try this:


----------



## EOTL (Jul 30, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Yeah... she's a learned physician nowhere NEAR as intelligent as you.  Maybe, if she really seeks attention, she should try this:
> 
> View attachment 8393


You are correct that I am much more intelligent than her. Bigot.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 30, 2020)

EOTL said:


> You are correct that I am much more intelligent than her. Bigot.


You'd be a physician if you were capable, princess.


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 30, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Let's just be clear, Arizona is up to 1.2 9/11s, correct?


1.2 9/11s or 906 Benghazis.


----------



## Poconos (Aug 14, 2020)

messy said:


> Is that supposed to be responsive to my note about Americans.
> Make sacrifices to beat the enemy.
> Band together in that job.
> That’s American exceptionalism.
> ...





messy said:


> America is really, really dumb


----------



## messy (Aug 14, 2020)

The first is who we are supposed to be.
The second, with our current national leadership and its supporters, is who we are.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Aug 14, 2020)

messy said:


> The first is who we are supposed to be.
> The second, with our current national leadership and its supporters, is who we are.


Wow... you just can't behave, can you?  Do you need to be reported?


----------



## Surfref (Aug 16, 2020)

Would you want your kid to play under Massachusetts COVID-19 modified rules: no heading, no throw-ins, no corner kicks into penalty area, no shoulder to shoulder challenges, no slide tackling players, no wall....?  Referees in masks and electronic whistle.
Their updated rules are on page 4 of the attachment.


			https://www.mayouthsoccer.org/assets/61/6/return_to_soccer_activities_phase_3_step_1_-_august_151.pdf


----------



## notintheface (Aug 16, 2020)

"Eliminate Deliberate Contact: Deliberate close contact must be eliminated. Deliberate close contact includes but is not limited to collisions, tackling, body checking, blocking"

Uh-- okay.

"Heading - All intentional heading of a soccer ball is suspended for all ages."

Fine, I guess.

"Shoulder to Shoulder contact is suspended and or any other intentional physical contact is to be considered a violation of Law 12"

Uh-- okay.

"Throw-Ins as defined by IFAB Law 15 are suspended and to be replaced by a Kick-in."

Free kicks for everyone! Stick all your 9 year olds right outside the box. Scores are going to be 15-10.

"Opponents must remain at 10 yds (8 yards for small sided) from the ball prior to the kick.. The use of a traditional defensive Wall is currently suspended."

Sorry, I mean the scores will be 25-20.

Imagine Cal South doing this. Yeah, let's play Surf Cup with no shoulder to shoulder contact, sounds great.


----------



## Desert Hound (Aug 16, 2020)

Surfref said:


> Would you want your kid to play under Massachusetts COVID-19 modified rules: no heading, no throw-ins, no corner kicks into penalty area, no shoulder to shoulder challenges, no slide tackling players, no wall....?  Referees in masks and electronic whistle.
> Their updated rules are on page 4 of the attachment.
> 
> 
> https://www.mayouthsoccer.org/assets/61/6/return_to_soccer_activities_phase_3_step_1_-_august_151.pdf


Those rules are silly. That really takes away from the game of soccer.


----------



## Ellejustus (Aug 16, 2020)

Surfref said:


> Would you want your kid to play under Massachusetts COVID-19 modified rules: no heading, no throw-ins, no corner kicks into penalty area, no shoulder to shoulder challenges, no slide tackling players, no wall....?  Referees in masks and electronic whistle.
> Their updated rules are on page 4 of the attachment.
> 
> 
> https://www.mayouthsoccer.org/assets/61/6/return_to_soccer_activities_phase_3_step_1_-_august_151.pdf


Only for scrimmages.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 16, 2020)

I feel that refs over the years have allowed too much contact.  It favors the big strong player over the smaller technical player.
Should all contact be eliminated? Of course not.
But this might good for a while.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Aug 16, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I feel that refs over the years have allowed too much contact.  It favors the big strong player over the smaller technical player.
> Should all contact be eliminated? Of course not.
> But this might good for a while.


My personal opinion is that the "beautiful game" is referring to the technical side. I'd be happy if it was less physical and more yellows given for fouls that take away from the flow of the game. It will help the big, technical players as well. I believe hockey basically did this a few decades ago and the game became more fun to watch - definitely more skill involved. Wanna watch something really physical? We have MMA for men and women.


----------



## Justafan (Aug 16, 2020)

notintheface said:


> "Eliminate Deliberate Contact: Deliberate close contact must be eliminated. Deliberate close contact includes but is not limited to collisions, tackling, body checking, blocking"
> 
> Uh-- okay.
> 
> ...


It’s a big injury risk to ask kids to play a completely different game than what hey are used to.  I can imagine a defender instinctively going after a forward and when they are about to make contact think to herself, oh shoot I’m not supposed to go shoulder to shoulder, then try to pull up, and pull a hamy in the process.


----------



## Justafan (Aug 16, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> My personal opinion is that the "beautiful game" is referring to the technical side. I'd be happy if it was less physical and more yellows given for fouls that take away from the flow of the game. It will help the big, technical players as well. I believe hockey basically did this a few decades ago and the game became more fun to watch - definitely more skill involved. Wanna watch something really physical? We have MMA for men and women.


So right about hockey, way more speed in the game than ever before.


----------



## Ellejustus (Aug 16, 2020)

Justafan said:


> It’s a big injury risk to ask kids to play a completely different game than what hey are used to.  I can imagine a defender instinctively going after a forward and when they are about to make contact think to herself, oh shoot I’m not supposed to go shoulder to shoulder, then try to pull up, and pull a hamy in the process.


I played in Alumni game 13 years ago to raise some funds for the program at my old hs.  I was killing it and hitting all my three's and was jogging back on defense and then......snap!!!!  Calf muscle tear.  It was insane and I was done for the day.  Lost in first round of single elimination after group play. I had not played a real game for 5 years and thought I could be weekend warrior dad.  We were a team of 85ers thru 89ers.  The next year the whole squad came back and we made a run but lost lost in QF to the 94-98 class.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Aug 16, 2020)

Justafan said:


> So right about hockey, way more speed in the game than ever before.


I'd love to see it in women's soccer. However, I want to see it as an intentional effort to make the game faster and reward skill, not as a misguided effort to mitigate COVID risk.


----------



## dad4 (Aug 16, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> I'd love to see it in women's soccer. However, I want to see it as an intentional effort to make the game faster and reward skill, not as a misguided effort to mitigate COVID risk.


Actually calling the rules wouldn’t hurt men’s soccer either.  There are a few six foot, 240 pound people hired for foot skills.  Most of them are there for their ability to shove lighter players out of the way.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Aug 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Actually calling the rules wouldn’t hurt men’s soccer either.  There are a few six foot, 240 pound people hired for foot skills.  Most of them are there for their ability to shove lighter players out of the way.


I agree completely in the men's game as well.


----------



## Paul Spacey (Aug 16, 2020)

Oh my days. Once you start altering the fundamental rules of any game, it’s no longer that game. You may as well call it something else. Wimp-ball seems appropriate.

It’s clear that non-soccer people are making these decisions. Every day now I hear something new related to Covid and sport (mostly soccer) which makes me laugh then shake my head in pure disbelief.

Again, this is why I don’t see a return of games (certainly not ‘normal’ ones) anytime soon here in CA; it genuinely feels like we’re in some kind of twilight zone.


----------



## dad4 (Aug 16, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> Oh my days. Once you start altering the fundamental rules of any game, it’s no longer that game. You may as well call it something else. Wimp-ball seems appropriate.
> 
> It’s clear that non-soccer people are making these decisions. Every day now I hear something new related to Covid and sport (mostly soccer) which makes me laugh then shake my head in pure disbelief.
> 
> Again, this is why I don’t see a return of games (certainly not ‘normal’ ones) anytime soon here in CA; it genuinely feels like we’re in some kind of twilight zone.


Do you really want soccer people making public health decisions?  That would be like letting the epidemiologists coach soccer.  Maybe Fauci could  coach Barca?

I agree it is not the same game, but I bet the kids in MA are having fun with it.   Hooray for that.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 16, 2020)

Maybe everyone can play attached to a stick with 6 feet of distance.  Human foosball


----------



## Grace T. (Aug 16, 2020)

notintheface said:


> "Eliminate Deliberate Contact: Deliberate close contact must be eliminated. Deliberate close contact includes but is not limited to collisions, tackling, body checking, blocking"
> 
> Uh-- okay.
> 
> ...


I didn’t see anywhere where the goalkeeper is addressed.  One of three possibilities: 1) the goalkeeper is supposed to stand on his line and is not permitted to come out on the cross or 1v1 (in which case why have any...just shoot into the empty net...note too they replaced corner kicks with kick ins) 2) if challenged by the gk in the pa an offensive player must give up the ball (I like this optionof course) or 3) because the gk wears gloves the gk is somehow not a contact concern and therefore was not mentioned in the modifications (because science!).


----------



## Paul Spacey (Aug 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Do you really want soccer people making public health decisions?  That would be like letting the epidemiologists coach soccer.  Maybe Fauci could  coach Barca?
> 
> I agree it is not the same game, but I bet the kids in MA are having fun with it.   Hooray for that.


I wasn't suggesting that at all but let's face it; based on the decisions our 'leaders' and 'experts' have made so far, my guess is that Pep Guardiola wouldn't do any worse 

My point was that we seem to be losing the plot completely. As in it feels like we're actually in a mental asylum. I'm not going down any political or conspiracy road but people need to wake the fuck up. No more to say on it, I'll stick to soccer!


----------



## EOTL (Aug 17, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> I wasn't suggesting that at all but let's face it; based on the decisions our 'leaders' and 'experts' have made so far, my guess is that Pep Guardiola wouldn't do any worse
> 
> My point was that we seem to be losing the plot completely. As in it feels like we're actually in a mental asylum. I'm not going down any political or conspiracy road but people need to wake the fuck up. No more to say on it, I'll stick to soccer!


Opposing temporary rule changes in youth soccer 
made due to Covid because it negatively impacts the “beautiful game” is the very definition of losing the plot.

Kids in CA aren’t playing soccer, aren’t going to school, aren’t doing much of anything really because too many people share your way of thinking.


----------



## Ellejustus (Aug 17, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Opposing temporary rule changes in youth soccer
> made due to Covid because it negatively impacts the “beautiful game” is the very definition of losing the plot.
> 
> *Kids in CA aren’t playing soccer, aren’t going to school, aren’t doing much of anything really because too many people share your way of thinking.*


Wrong again EOTL.  Kids are being treated like a________________________________________________all because of__________________________-and______________________________and____________________________________________That's how I see it but I could be wrong.  My kid is actually doing all the things you said kids aren;t doing.


----------



## Ellejustus (Aug 17, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I feel that refs over the years have allowed too much contact.  It favors the big strong player over the smaller technical player.
> Should all contact be eliminated? Of course not.
> But this might good for a while.


High School Soccer Refs let the girls attack each other and that needs to stop this next season.  I hope to God the refs learn to put that kind of hockey-soccer-rugby games gone and out of here once and for all.  It was way too physical and just too dangerous.  Soccer should be a passing game with tough battles in the box and other times.  I believe when we all get back together for soccer, it will be more about possession and the give and go


----------



## Paul Spacey (Aug 17, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Opposing temporary rule changes in youth soccer
> made due to Covid because it negatively impacts the “beautiful game” is the very definition of losing the plot.
> 
> Kids in CA aren’t playing soccer, aren’t going to school, aren’t doing much of anything really because too many people share your way of thinking.


Oh dear, another one. Bless you.


----------



## Ellejustus (Aug 17, 2020)

This song is really cool.  Only 4900 views for Ashley.  My friend helped with video.  Maybe some day after Nov 3rd, we can all join hands?  I'm sure one side might be upset and not feel like holding hands and that is 100% understandable.  It will take time for the losers to accept the loss, because losers always have a hard time with losing.


----------



## chiefs (Aug 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> High School Soccer Refs let the girls attack each other and that needs to stop this next season.  I hope to God the refs learn to put that kind of hockey-soccer-rugby games gone and out of here once and for all.  It was way too physical and just too dangerous.  Soccer should be a passing game with tough battles in the box and other times.  I believe when we all get back together for soccer, it will be more about possession and the give and go


Not many teams can play the possession game consistently. It takes a lot of talent via skill, IQ, athleticism, and time playing together.  Saw only a few teams all of last year who can do that but one that stood out was Tads blues team which happened to be the best team in the country.  So after a long break, in my opinion it will be even harder to play that style. I think we will see more direct than ever unfortunately .


----------



## Ellejustus (Aug 17, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Not many teams can play the possession game consistently. It takes a lot of talent via skill, IQ, athleticism, and time playing together.  Saw only a few teams all of last year who can do that but one that stood out was Tads blues team which happened to be the best team in the country.  So after a long break, in my opinion it will be even harder to play that style. I think we will see more direct than ever unfortunately .


Yes, that team was for sure #1 in da country.  That stupid age change really hurt my dd big time....lol!!!  I have accepted it but it still a pit in my tummy.  I do agree that not all girls understand possession.  I'm ok with a little kickball as long as it's not kick the ball and then run through the player so she tears her acl.  Call the game tight and blow that whistle quickly and warn the hackers their time on the field will be short if they continue that style.  Yellow card and then red and team is down a player.


----------



## Desert Hound (Aug 17, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Opposing temporary rule changes in youth soccer
> made due to Covid because it negatively impacts the “beautiful game” is the very definition of losing the plot.
> 
> Kids in CA aren’t playing soccer, aren’t going to school, aren’t doing much of anything really because too many people share your way of thinking.


Actually kids are going to school, playing soccer, etc because guys like you cant read and understand data that shows under 24 yr olds have about ZERO risk.

You guys are the ones that refuse to look at the data.

If individually you prefer not to participate in school, soccer...that is up to you.

So lets play soccer.


----------



## dad4 (Aug 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Actually kids are going to school, playing soccer, etc because guys like you cant read and understand data that shows under 24 yr olds have about ZERO risk.
> 
> You guys are the ones that refuse to look at the data.
> 
> ...


I can read and understand data that says active children are at extremely low risk of death from covid.

Can you read and understand that child risk of death is not the primary reason for school closures?

It’s been explained to you no less than twenty times.   The question is, and always has been, youth transmission, not youth fatalities.


----------



## socalkdg (Aug 17, 2020)

We went back to practice Saturday as a team.   14 girls out of 18.   2 of the 4 that missed have family members that are high risk so they aren't showing up right now.   The other 2 were out of town.

Every girl walked to a cone with their bag wearing a mask.  7-8 feet apart.   In shade.  It was hot.   Sat and waited until they were temp checked using infrared on forehead. All used hand sanitizer at this time.  Then went out to the field in designated areas.   Coach wore his mask the whole time.  Ran a number of dribbling drills, passing drills, did some running, but no rondo at this time since that would require playing defense.   Did some shooting from distance as well. 

Took a few breaks as they would jog back to their bag.   At the end they all sat by their bags and had team discussions.  Only real mistake they made was walking off the field when everything was done not wearing their masks.    They were reminded to put their masks back on.   None of girls used their hands to pick up soccer balls except the keeper.  14 and 15 year old girls did a good job overall.


----------



## Desert Hound (Aug 17, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Can you read and understand that child risk of death is not the primary reason for school closures?


Actually it is phrased as such by most who advocate school closures. They always talk about keeping kids safe. 

They can go to school, and teachers can wear masks. They will be fine. 

We have months and months of people working around hundreds of people every day without outbreaks at gas stations, grocery stores, target, walmart, costco, etc. 

If being around a lot of people on a daily basis is risky, we would see these employees getting hit hard. And yet we don't see that. Do we? These places are packed and people come in and out all day long. 

We do not see outbreaks at these places.


----------



## Desert Hound (Aug 17, 2020)

dad4 said:


> It’s been explained to you no less than twenty times. The question is, and always has been, youth transmission, not youth fatalities.


Yes you have explained many times how the AZ, TX, FL, GA are at any minute going to explode into catastrophe. 

And yet that doesn't happen. And the state whose policies you like, has rising transmission rates, etc. 

CA is moving up the Rt list and AZ has dropped like a rock to the best in the US.

Time to play soccer. Get your kids back to practice and to school. 

They will be fine, and you will be fine. 

Enjoy life, start the leagues back up.


----------



## Ellejustus (Aug 17, 2020)

Well, I'll be dam.  My dd wakes up this morning and says, "dad, can you give me a ride and so and so and her friends to go play soccer at_________________________.  I said, really?  "Me and the girls want to play soccer before we go to da beach."  So 6 girls playing together for the fun of it.  All from different club teams and levels of soccer just because they want to and their bored to death with 6 x 6 soccer.  This was as organic as an organic apple and I'm just beside myself.  I swear I did not persuade her to get out of the house or bribe her to get some soccer in just because.  My dd 100% loves the game and so do her friends and they all told me they want to play actual game someday.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Aug 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> High School Soccer Refs let the girls attack each other and that needs to stop this next season.  I hope to God the refs learn to put that kind of hockey-soccer-rugby games gone and out of here once and for all.  It was way too physical and just too dangerous.  Soccer should be a passing game with tough battles in the box and other times.  I believe when we all get back together for soccer, it will be more about possession and the give and go


That’s what happens when some girls know how to play and the fat, slow and unskilled ones don’t.


----------



## STX (Aug 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Actually kids are going to school, playing soccer, etc because guys like you cant read and understand data that shows under 24 yr olds have about ZERO risk.
> 
> You guys are the ones that refuse to look at the data.
> 
> ...


People say "going to school, playing soccer, etc." as if those activities are even remotely of similar risk for virus transmission.  They aren't.  At all. 

One involves close, continuous contact in a poorly ventilated area, which experts say is usually needed for transmission.  Going to school is absolutely a virus incubator that will lead to transmission.

The other involves none of those things.  Training or playing soccer has (so far) proven to have an extremely low risk of transmission.  Data suggests the only risks with soccer is the higher risk non-soccer stuff that often accompanies the game (traveling together, meeting together, eating together, lifting weights together, etc.).

We need to all stop equating things that are remarkably different.  Some things that may seem similar, really are not.  Volleyball (close, continuous indoor contact) may be of high enough risk that it needs to be shut down, but whataboutism should stop with the conclusion that thusly every sport or activity needs shut down.


----------



## Soccer4evr (Aug 17, 2020)

"Can you read and understand that child risk of death is not the primary reason for school closures?"

The primary reason is two fold: Teachers Unions and COVID lawsuits.


----------



## Ellejustus (Aug 17, 2020)

Return to online school starts up next week for my dd.  I just picked up one these for her, just in case she is a little tired.  I 100% would have had one of these in place by 8am class.


----------



## Ellejustus (Aug 17, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> That’s what happens when some girls know how to play and the fat, slow and unskilled ones don’t.


I would use different words.  More like, when some girls get beat on the give and go, the big, fast and unskilled ones is where all the danger comes from and injuries.  Girls can get nasty to each other on the soccer fields.  I played pick up ball at Main Beach and their was a guy named Dom ((not the Dom here)) that was a muscle man at 6'2 and hacked everyone.  Zero skills.  Rambis without the set shot.  He was a complete joke and ruined basketball on weekends.  He finally got kicked out of the city.  Big hacker who should have been playing football.


----------



## dad4 (Aug 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I would use different words.  More like, when some girls get beat on the give and go, the big, fast and unskilled ones is where all the danger comes from and injuries.  Girls can get nasty to each other on the soccer fields.  I played pick up ball at Main Beach and their was a guy named Dom ((not the Dom here)) that was a muscle man at 6'2 and hacked everyone.  Zero skills.  Rambis without the set shot.  He was a complete joke and ruined basketball on weekends.  He finally got kicked out of the city.  Big hacker who should have been playing football.


Our family eventually made a rule against playing up because of players like that.  Teams put a wrecking ball at CM to control the field.  Can't run, can't dribble, but can push.  Causes injuries and ruins the game for everyone.


----------



## Eagle33 (Aug 17, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Our family eventually made a rule against playing up because of players like that.  Teams put a wrecking ball at CM to control the field.  Can't run, can't dribble, but can push.  Causes injuries and ruins the game for everyone.


Rule against playing up? All good players *have to* play up. Does freshmen in HS have to play Frosh/Soph? Does freshmen in college don't have to play, because girls/boys are older (some more than 4 years)?


----------



## Ellejustus (Aug 17, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Our family eventually made a rule against playing up because of players like that.  Teams put a wrecking ball at CM to control the field.  Can't run, can't dribble, but can push.  Causes injuries and ruins the game for everyone.


I understand 100%.  My dd was the smallest on the team until puberty hit and then she grew 6 inches in two years.  She would get hacked by these big girls all the time.  Always happened in da box too.  I told you the first time on this forum some dad was calling out my goat and calling her ((not me)) a big cry baby because she always got the calls from the refs.  In HS Soccer, my dd got to play the 10 this year and I was scared for her safety, I wont lie.


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## dad4 (Aug 17, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Rule against playing up? All good players *have to* play up. Does freshmen in HS have to play Frosh/Soph? Does freshmen in college don't have to play, because girls/boys are older (some more than 4 years)?


Nope.  Max 1 year for us.  (Youngers.  No HS or college question.)

Won't change until refs learn how to pull out the plastic.

Makes me feel kind of shitty when they are up 5 points after 12 minutes.  But I'm not putting her on the field with olders just so some low skill bowling ball can crush her ankles.


----------



## notintheface (Aug 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I understand 100%.  My dd was the smallest on the team until puberty hit and then she grew 6 inches in two years.  She would get hacked by these big girls all the time.  Always happened in da box too.  I told you the first time on this forum some dad was calling out my goat and calling her ((not me)) a big cry baby because she always got the calls from the refs.  In HS Soccer, my dd got to play the 10 this year and I was scared for her safety, I wont lie.


As a parent of one of the tall ones on the team, I sympathize. Shoulder-to-shoulder contact seems like it only works one way.


----------



## Ellejustus (Aug 17, 2020)

notintheface said:


> As a parent of one of the tall ones on the team, I sympathize. Shoulder-to-shoulder contact seems like it only works one way.


Did you see the video of my goat getting taken out when she was on the Goat FC team?  She was playing up with the other goats and got wiped clean to the ground.  No foul called either.


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## Technician72 (Aug 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Did you see the video of my goat getting taken out when she was on the Goat FC team?  She was playing up with the other goats and got wiped clean to the ground.  No foul called either.


That video is still up on YouTube, coincidence that @Kicker4Life ended up taking his kids to that club that "fouled" @Ellejustus Goat? The plot thickens...

Just kidding about that part, but it is on YouTube on a page that may or not be private. @Ellejustus let me know if you want the link and I can DM it to you.


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## Ellejustus (Aug 17, 2020)

Technician72 said:


> That video is still up on YouTube, coincidence that @Kicker4Life ended up taking his kids to that club that "fouled" @Ellejustus Goat? The plot thickens...
> 
> Just kidding about that part, but it is on YouTube on a page that may or not be private. @Ellejustus let me know if you want the link and I can DM it to you.


Look what I found...lol.  If you look close enough, you can see me in my chair just beside myself.  It was the talk of the day.  plus we beat the olders girls that day.  No Kicker kids that day if I remember.  I hope I wasn;t to cocky back then bro.  I guess my dd goals got to my head....lol.


----------



## Surfref (Aug 17, 2020)

W


Ellejustus said:


> Yes, that team was for sure #1 in da country.  That stupid age change really hurt my dd big time....lol!!!  I have accepted it but it still a pit in my tummy.  I do agree that not all girls understand possession.  I'm ok with a little kickball as long as it's not kick the ball and then run through the player so she tears her acl.  Call the game tight and blow that whistle quickly and warn the hackers their time on the field will be short if they continue that style.  Yellow card and then red and team is down a player.


We are blowing the whistle.  We are pushing the button on the electronic whistle until we get rid of these stupid face masks.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Aug 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Look what I found...lol


Ouch. Foul. Card. Clean block, no clip, on the punt return, though.


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## mlx (Aug 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Look what I found...lol.  If you look close enough, you can see me in my chair just beside myself.  It was the talk of the day.  plus we beat the olders girls that day.  No Kicker kids that day if I remember.  I hope I wasn;t to cocky back then bro.  I guess my dd goals got to my head....lol.


That's clearly no foul.


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## Dominic (Aug 17, 2020)

Any Goat teams still in existence?


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 17, 2020)

Technician72 said:


> That video is still up on YouTube, coincidence that @Kicker4Life ended up taking his kids to that club that "fouled" @Ellejustus Goat? The plot thickens...
> 
> Just kidding about that part, but it is on YouTube on a page that may or not be private. @Ellejustus let me know if you want the link and I can DM it to you.


We were already there....that’s why my DD wasn’t wearing green that weekend.


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 17, 2020)

Dominic said:


> Any Goat teams still in existence?


Yes, just on hold. They were set to attend Super Copa till C19.


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## notintheface (Aug 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Look what I found...lol.  If you look close enough, you can see me in my chair just beside myself.  It was the talk of the day.  plus we beat the olders girls that day.  No Kicker kids that day if I remember.  I hope I wasn;t to cocky back then bro.  I guess my dd goals got to my head....lol.


Looks like a 9v9 game, yeah? U11 or so? Obviously the referee is in the wrong here, but I can 100% guarantee that if the game is tied or Legends are down big, that foul doesn't get called. That's the age range where you get kids scoring from nearly the center of the field off free kicks, just because they can air it over a keeper that mistimes their jump. The ref doesn't want to give away the free kick right outside the box (I'm guessing from the location of the other line judge), and that's why it isn't called.

The coaching lesson here-- not necessarily to the CB in question-- is to the other Legends fullback. Don't run with your teammate. If your CB is going to win the 50-50 ball, make space for them to play-- that should have been a covering run straight backwards. By running with them, you incentivize the "I'll use my body to just block out the forward while you take the ball" play, and that's where the lack of physical coordination from a 10-year-old kid winds up with situations like this. Guarantee the CB didn't mean to put your kid on the ground-- you can see her under-compensate on the collision and that's why she winds up on the ground herself.


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## Sheriff Joe (Aug 18, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Looks like a 9v9 game, yeah? U11 or so? Obviously the referee is in the wrong here, but I can 100% guarantee that if the game is tied or Legends are down big, that foul doesn't get called. That's the age range where you get kids scoring from nearly the center of the field off free kicks, just because they can air it over a keeper that mistimes their jump. The ref doesn't want to give away the free kick right outside the box (I'm guessing from the location of the other line judge), and that's why it isn't called.
> 
> The coaching lesson here-- not necessarily to the CB in question-- is to the other Legends fullback. Don't run with your teammate. If your CB is going to win the 50-50 ball, make space for them to play-- that should have been a covering run straight backwards. By running with them, you incentivize the "I'll use my body to just block out the forward while you take the ball" play, and that's where the lack of physical coordination from a 10-year-old kid winds up with situations like this. Guarantee the CB didn't mean to put your kid on the ground-- you can see her under-compensate on the collision and that's why she winds up on the ground herself.


Urineidiot


----------



## Ellejustus (Aug 18, 2020)

notintheface said:


> *Looks like a 9v9 game, yeah? U11 or so? *Obviously the referee is in the wrong here, *but I can 100% guarantee that if the game is tied or Legends are down big, that foul doesn't get called*. That's the age range where you get kids scoring from nearly the center of the field off free kicks, just because they can air it over a keeper that mistimes their jump. The ref doesn't want to give away the free kick right outside the box (I'm guessing from the location of the other line judge), and that's why it isn't called.
> 
> The coaching lesson here-- not necessarily to the CB in question-- is to the other Legends fullback. Don't run with your teammate. If your CB is going to win the 50-50 ball, make space for them to play-- that should have been a covering run straight backwards. By running with them, you incentivize the "I'll use my body to just block out the forward while you take the ball" play, and that's where the lack of physical coordination from a 10-year-old kid winds up with situations like this. Guarantee the CB didn't mean to put your kid on the ground-- you can see her under-compensate on the collision and that's why she winds up on the ground herself.


Looks can be deceiving.  Were playing up against #1 Beach FC 11x11 bro, not Legends.  They both have same look at times.  Beach is the top girls club in da country I might add.  Tech was TM and the Bitch and Crazy Ray were the coaches of GOAT FC if I remember correctly.  Anyway, we were up ((GOAT FC teams always win)) 4-3 I think and my goat was going for the trick, you know the one with the hat?  My goat always wins the chase for the ball btw.  Our goat team only played possession too so if you didnt know how to pass, your were cut from the tryouts we had a few weeks prior.  TM calls potential recruit and ask a few questions.  If the parent starts with, "my dd has to play CM" you will never be invited to play.  You play where coach puts you, end of story.  So my goat was going to get that dam ball and control it and then pass back to Tech's dd who is focused and hustling in the play and looking for the give and go with my goat.  Techs kid is by far the most unselfish player out there.  Those were the days. We beat the top club that day and the girls were so proud and so was I.  I think the Gaffer and Tad were on hand to snatch my goat up to da Blues and we left GOAT FC after the game.  They were in the parking lot with all the papers to sign.  I love you guys and miss you all.  Maybe we need to have GOAT FC tournament?


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## Eagle33 (Aug 18, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Looks can be deceiving.  Were playing up against #1 Beach FC 11x11 bro, not Legends.  They both have same look at times.  Beach is the top girls club in da country I might add.  Tech was TM and the Bitch and Crazy Ray were the coaches of GOAT FC if I remember correctly.  Anyway, we were up ((GOAT FC teams always win)) 4-3 I think and my goat was going for the trick, you know the one with the hat?  My goat always wins the chase for the ball btw.  Our goat team only played possession too so if you didnt know how to pass, your were cut from the tryouts we had a few weeks prior.  TM calls potential recruit and ask a few questions.  If the parent starts with, "my dd has to play CM" you will never be invited to play.  You play where coach puts you, end of story.  So my goat was going to get that dam ball and control it and then pass back to Tech's dd who is focused and hustling in the play and looking for the give and go with my goat.  Techs kid is by far the most unselfish player out there.  Those were the days. We beat the top club that day and the girls were so proud and so was I.  I think the Gaffer and Tad were on hand to snatch my goat up to da Blues and we left GOAT FC after the game.  They were in the parking lot with all the papers to sign.  I love you guys and miss you all.  Maybe we need to have GOAT FC tournament?


I've seen few Goats games. Great idea and exactly what soccer should be about! No pressure, no screaming coaches telling them what to do, just bunch of goats having fun playing.


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## Ellejustus (Aug 18, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I've seen few Goats games. Great idea and exactly what soccer should be about! No pressure, no screaming coaches telling them what to do, just bunch of goats having fun playing.


I wish all parents were like you.  For some reason, the Joy Invitational parents were knot too kind with the idea of all star team of baby goats ((see attached video of what baby goat sounds like)).  They gave us some serious sh*t that day Eagle.  All the goat parents had green hair or green something that day and the kids painted their faces and hair and it was just pure fun with no Doc.  There was a lot of "bahhhhhaaaaaahhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa" going on that day.  In fact, one of our great goats got whacked ((not my kid, maybe 808s)) and got up all tough and basically went all "baaaaaaabaaaaa" on the other player.  It was so funny.......I loved pissing off  certain types of parents in club soccer.  The last 6 years has been something out of a twilight zone soccer life.

Baby Goat


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## notintheface (Aug 18, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> 4-3 I think


That's why the ref doesn't call the foul. Late, defending team down one goal. Not saying it isn't right, just that's what the ref is thinking. If he gives the foul, he's giving a very good chance at goal, and Beach parents go apeshit. It's a no-win decision, so refs default to no decision.


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## Ellejustus (Aug 18, 2020)

notintheface said:


> *That's why the ref doesn't call the foul*. Late, defending team down one goal. Not saying it isn't right, just that's what the ref is thinking. If he gives the foul, he's giving a very good chance at goal, and Beach parents go apeshit. It's a no-win decision, so refs default to no decision.


Wrong again.  Ref was slow and had no clue what the hell he was doing that game.  I'm not sure where we were, but it was Beaches ref and home crowd.  That's a foul just like hack a shaq was a foul.  It's what makes girls soccer suck sometimes.  She wasn;t going up for a lay up dude.


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## gotothebushes (Aug 18, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Wrong again.  Ref was slow and had no clue what the hell he was doing that game.  I'm not sure where we were, but it was Beaches ref and home crowd.  That's a foul just like hack a shaq was a foul.  It's what makes girls soccer suck sometimes.  She wasn;t going up for a lay up dude.


Playing up has its pros and cons. Thankfully your goat wasn't hurt. I'm assuming this was 5 years ago?


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## Anon9 (Aug 18, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Opposing temporary rule changes in youth soccer
> made due to Covid because it negatively impacts the “beautiful game” is the very definition of losing the plot.
> 
> Kids in CA aren’t playing soccer, aren’t going to school, aren’t doing much of anything really because too many people share your way of thinking.


Actually, kids aren’t doing any of this because too many people share YOUR way of thinking.


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## Eagle33 (Aug 18, 2020)

notintheface said:


> That's why the ref doesn't call the foul. Late, defending team down one goal. Not saying it isn't right, just that's what the ref is thinking. If he gives the foul, he's giving a very good chance at goal, and Beach parents go apeshit. It's a no-win decision, so refs default to no decision.


Saying ref did do this or didn't do this is like having a crystal ball. This is clearly a foul and it should have been called.


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## Chalklines (Aug 18, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Look what I found...lol.  If you look close enough, you can see me in my chair just beside myself.  It was the talk of the day.  plus we beat the olders girls that day.  No Kicker kids that day if I remember.  I hope I wasn;t to cocky back then bro.  I guess my dd goals got to my head....lol.


Looked clean to me. Maybe it was a message directed for you instead?


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## Technician72 (Aug 18, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Look what I found...lol.  If you look close enough, you can see me in my chair just beside myself.  It was the talk of the day.  plus we beat the olders girls that day.  No Kicker kids that day if I remember.  I hope I wasn;t to cocky back then bro.  I guess my dd goals got to my head....lol.


If you play the clip at a slower speed you can catch @Sparky9 reaction, as he had one of the closest seats to that play.

Overall the Goats FC concept and atmosphere was chill, but every so often you'd get a set of opposing parents that would misconstrue the joyous environment as a personal dig at them / their team. Had a few approach me post game or in parking lots to express their rage at our girls "baahh"ing and our sideline laughing and "joking around". If they only knew that a majority of the time we were laughing at things that were not related to what was going on in the field of play but just having a good time. If we laughed at what was happening on the field it was watching our girls play different positions, trying to figure it out on their own, the "coaches" with their wigs and paint on.

"How dare you not take this U11 game seriously, how dare you!!!"


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## Ellejustus (Aug 18, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> Looked clean to me. Maybe it was a message directed for you instead?


Yes, some parents take things out on other kids to seek revenge on parents they hate.  Those days will be over soon too.  My dd had a field day that day, so I'm sure one of the dads or mama bears from the other team had a pep talk about not letting those baby goats go "baaaaaaaahaaaa" all over the field.  My dd has taken her fair share of clean shots from tough goats.  I remember one from crazy Ray's dd during ODP tryouts.  It was the last weekend of cuts and my goat gets blocked out ((clean play from a true goat)) and when she fell, she fell on her wrist.  See attached  The last three years have been so mellow and soft she has healed from all her previous injuries and was probably protected from serious injuries because of all the lies that went on and the age change.


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## Desert Hound (Aug 18, 2020)

Maybe this is why some people want masks. 

Time for soccer!


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## happy9 (Aug 18, 2020)

Technician72 said:


> If you play the clip at a slower speed you can catch @Sparky9 reaction, as he had one of the closest seats to that play.
> 
> Overall the Goats FC concept and atmosphere was chill, but every so often you'd get a set of opposing parents that would misconstrue the joyous environment as a personal dig at them / their team. Had a few approach me post game or in parking lots to express their rage at our girls "baahh"ing and our sideline laughing and "joking around". If they only knew that a majority of the time we were laughing at things that were not related to what was going on in the field of play but just having a good time. If we laughed at what was happening on the field it was watching our girls play different positions, trying to figure it out on their own, the "coaches" with their wigs and paint on.
> 
> "How dare you not take this U11 game seriously, how dare you!!!"


I dig this GOAT thing, it should still be a thing.


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## Ellejustus (Aug 18, 2020)

happy9 said:


> I dig this GOAT thing, it should still be a thing.


The Goat thing is amazing.  It was fun trying to ask for permission by club coach and or Doc.  We had to get our players cards somehow without the TM asking too many dam questions.  It was not encouraged to play with the rebel Goats and their crazy ass parents back in the day.  I had one say, "no, its not wise to play with those Goats.  Plus, your girl will get hurt."  I told them, "Too bad, give me my dd card please."  It was that easy but soon the whole team found out and it was not praised from my dd old team higher ups.  Today, the timing is perfect to go play goat fc style soccer.  No Docs or coaches, just dads and moms letting the girls pick their positions and who starts and who comes off the bench because in the grand scheme of things, who cares!!!!


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## Desert Hound (Aug 18, 2020)

The GOAT FC
					

The GOAT FC is a tribute to the beautiful game. Players, fans, musicians and artists get together once a year in California to share three days of pure soccer, music and art.  MARCH 2020 - LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, DIVISIONS: MEN’S, WOMEN’S, COED & 40+, 5v5 competition, skill contest, live music




					thegoatfc.com


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## Technician72 (Aug 18, 2020)

happy9 said:


> I dig this GOAT thing, it should still be a thing.


Still is, much easier to pull off at the younger ages. Once the girls started to age into the ECNL / DA age groups the clubs were much less tolerant of guest playing.

The most recent grouping, U-Littles, got quite a bit of heat for competing at a bigger tourney and coloring outside the lines in terms of some basic guidelines that were established in terms of how many players could be from the same club. It gave off the perception that the players were hand picked to build an "All-Star" squad and the discussion of what is fair and whether this belonged at the tournament the Goats entered was discussed back and forth with some heated exchanges.

I didn't have an issue with it because the Goats were non-traditional to begin, so any "rules" established in creating a Goats team is in itself something that is meant to be broken. Initially the concept was to pick the "parents" because the manner in which they carried themselves would either be conducive, or not, in creating a harmonious environment for a let it all hang out weekend of fun. The players were literally from Flight 1 through 3 and no one cared. Girls had water balloon fights, ate whatever they wanted, danced, painted their hair / face and took to one another so easily once the parents / coaches were out of the way. Watching our "coaches" be more concerned about their "green cups" as opposed to the score was classic. It was a great reminder of the fun the girls should be having to balance the work that constantly overshadows it.

I'm going to try and fetch some older content I posted on the history of Goats with some embarrassing pictures to boot.


----------



## notintheface (Aug 18, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Wrong again.  Ref was slow and had no clue what the hell he was doing that game.  I'm not sure where we were, but it was Beaches ref and home crowd.


It is absolutely a foul, yes, 100% of the time, always. I agree the ref was incorrect. What I am telling you are some of the reasons for why the non-call, that's it. If you are in a close game in a youngers match refs will always call games very very loosely because of the nature of the youngers game. Remember these kids aren't of the age to have the intent to foul. Hold up play? Physical play? Sure. But I can absolutely guarantee that the Beach CB did not go into that collision thinking "I'll take the foul here". They just aren't of the age to be able to make that decision.

I have only very very very rarely seen a ref call a youngers game tight. It just doesn't happen and more parents need to understand this. Youngers refs do not want to influence the game. How many times have you seen a youngers team ship a goal because a line judge misses that last touch before the ball goes out? That's on a decision that they are forced to make. If you got refs calling tight matches on the younger side against kids who are terrifically uncoordinated when they tackle, games would have scorelines of 30-1.


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## timbuck (Aug 18, 2020)

notintheface said:


> It is absolutely a foul, yes, 100% of the time, always. I agree the ref was incorrect. What I am telling you are some of the reasons for why the non-call, that's it. If you are in a close game in a youngers match refs will always call games very very loosely because of the nature of the youngers game. Remember these kids aren't of the age to have the intent to foul. Hold up play? Physical play? Sure. But I can absolutely guarantee that the Beach CB did not go into that collision thinking "I'll take the foul here". They just aren't of the age to be able to make that decision.
> 
> I have only very very very rarely seen a ref call a youngers game tight. It just doesn't happen and more parents need to understand this. Youngers refs do not want to influence the game. How many times have you seen a youngers team ship a goal because a line judge misses that last touch before the ball goes out? That's on a decision that they are forced to make. If you got refs calling tight matches on the younger side against kids who are terrifically uncoordinated when they tackle, games would have scorelines of 30-1.


Maybe for a short period of time.  Because coaches would have to adjust to teach their players to stop mauling and play good technical defense.


----------



## notintheface (Aug 18, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Maybe for a short period of time.  Because coaches would have to adjust to teach their players to stop mauling and play good technical defense.


It's hard, right. You have parents screaming from the sidelines to drop your shoulder and "don't let her get the ball!!!!" in the shrillest Karen voices they can. 50-50 balls are always going to have a level of violence to them. Keep in mind the age range, that Beach CB has probably grown 6 inches in the past year and is lucky to not trip when she walks, asking her to pull off a well-coordinated tackle and ball recovery is like asking the bull to make it through the china shop with zero damage. The teaching moment here is for the CB to play the ball but the outside back absolutely needs to stop running with her teammate.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 18, 2020)

Technician72 said:


> If you play the clip at a slower speed you can catch @Sparky9 reaction, as he had one of the closest seats to that play.
> 
> Overall the Goats FC concept and atmosphere was chill, but every so often you'd get a set of opposing parents that would misconstrue the joyous environment as a personal dig at them / their team. Had a few approach me post game or in parking lots to express their rage at our girls "baahh"ing and our sideline laughing and "joking around". If they only knew that a majority of the time we were laughing at things that were not related to what was going on in the field of play but just having a good time. If we laughed at what was happening on the field it was watching our girls play different positions, trying to figure it out on their own, the "coaches" with their wigs and paint on.
> 
> "How dare you not take this U11 game seriously, how dare you!!!"


I must admit when our kids played Goats together I loved how some coaches lost their minds playing against a team who never practiced/played/ together and were out of position.


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## Ellejustus (Aug 18, 2020)

Technician72 said:


> I'm going to try and fetch some older content I posted on the history of Goats with some embarrassing pictures to boot.


My goat before her first big Goats FC game in San Juan Capistrano where the swallows come every year.
*I had one parent at Joy's Invitational accuse me of having alcohol in my red cup.  "Way to set the example for little kids dad and drink at 10am....." I'm like, "what are you talking about mama bear?"  *


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## Giesbock (Aug 18, 2020)

Cute photo of your daughter.  Ready to rumble!


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## Ellejustus (Aug 18, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Cute photo of your daughter.  Ready to rumble!


Thanks bro.  All the girls had so much fun.  We were all good players and like I said many times before, goat is in the eye of the beholder and we ALL think our goat is the best....lol!  Each girl brought a great attitude to the fields.  I got to meet a few dads who gave me sh*t on this forum but we were like old pals from high school when we finally got to drink from the red cup together.  It was so cool and a breath of fresh air.  The Doc called me afterwards and was super freaked out about this new club called, Goat FC.  I promised him I wasnt leaving.  Then Tad called and I had a different conversation with the Doc.  Man, I'm still shocked how serious all this soccer stuff got.  Crazy ass times we all live in.


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## Woobie06 (Aug 18, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> My goat before her first big Goats FC game in San Juan Capistrano where the swallows come every year.View attachment 8687
> *I had one parent at Joy's Invitational accuse me of having alcohol in my red cup.  "Way to set the example for little kids dad and drink at 10am....." I'm like, "what are you talking about mama bear?"  *


People need to not judge the red solo cup...have these people not heard of brunch...


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## Technician72 (Aug 18, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> People need to not judge the red solo cup...have these people not heard of brunch...


It's happy hour somewhere...


----------



## dad4 (Aug 18, 2020)

notintheface said:


> It is absolutely a foul, yes, 100% of the time, always. I agree the ref was incorrect. What I am telling you are some of the reasons for why the non-call, that's it. If you are in a close game in a youngers match refs will always call games very very loosely because of the nature of the youngers game. Remember these kids aren't of the age to have the intent to foul. Hold up play? Physical play? Sure. But I can absolutely guarantee that the Beach CB did not go into that collision thinking "I'll take the foul here". They just aren't of the age to be able to make that decision.
> 
> I have only very very very rarely seen a ref call a youngers game tight. It just doesn't happen and more parents need to understand this. Youngers refs do not want to influence the game. How many times have you seen a youngers team ship a goal because a line judge misses that last touch before the ball goes out? That's on a decision that they are forced to make. If you got refs calling tight matches on the younger side against kids who are terrifically uncoordinated when they tackle, games would have scorelines of 30-1.


You have no idea how sophisticated a 10 year old kid can be with fouls.

10 year old girls, at the highest level, can absolutely figure out what is a foul, what the ref will call, and make a conscious decision to blast into another player when they think the ref is a pushover.

I’ve watched my kid do it, and I’ve had that exact discussion with her on they way home.  She can clearly articulate what the rule is, what the call should have been, and the missed calls early in the game that told her the ref would let it go.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Aug 18, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You have no idea how sophisticated a 10 year old kid can be with fouls.
> 
> 10 year old girls, at the highest level, can absolutely figure out what is a foul, what the ref will call, and make a conscious decision to blast into another player when they think the ref is a pushover.
> 
> I’ve watched my kid do it, and I’ve had that exact discussion with her on they way home.  She can clearly articulate what the rule is, what the call should have been, and the missed calls early in the game that told her the ref would let it go.


I always felt that at the younger ages, the refs were the ones who needed to "teach" what was acceptable soccer. I can't ever remember the coaches my daughter had spent any time on what was a foul and what wasn't. Refs should call the game as it should be played and players, of all ages, will adjust.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Aug 18, 2020)

My daughter is starting high school practice next week.


----------



## notintheface (Aug 18, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You have no idea how sophisticated a 10 year old kid can be with fouls.
> 
> 10 year old girls, at the highest level, can absolutely figure out what is a foul, what the ref will call, and make a conscious decision to blast into another player when they think the ref is a pushover.
> 
> I’ve watched my kid do it, and I’ve had that exact discussion with her on they way home.  She can clearly articulate what the rule is, what the call should have been, and the missed calls early in the game that told her the ref would let it go.


That's intent to be more physical. Players, good and bad, dial up the physicality when the referee is letting them play. That's not what I'm talking about. A 10-year-old simply does not go into a 50-50 ball with the intent to cynically put their opponent on the ground under normal circumstances. They aren't trying to foul - they're trying to bump someone off the ball harder and harder. The expectation from the younger's mind is that their opponent is doing the same thing. You can see it plain as day in the video-- the centerback is expecting the forward to bump her back just as hard and when that doesn't happen, she doesn't have the motor skills to compensate for her momentum, and down she goes.

Of course kids understand fouling and when a referee isn't calling them. They are probing how physical they can be. Example-- we've all seen the youngers games when a forward gets dragged down from behind. The defender is not thinking "I need to put this person on the ground", they're thinking "I need to slow them down" and because they're a younger and don't have the coordination, feet get tangled, or they use too much force on the shoulder pull, whatever, and parents on one sideline all jump up and scream.

That malicious intent doesn't come until later, and soon thereafter the good attacking players have picked up the similarly cynical learning how to embellish the contact.


----------



## Soccer Cat (Aug 18, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> My daughter is starting high school practice next week.


Soccer? where?
already?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Aug 18, 2020)

Soccer Cat said:


> Soccer? where?
> already?


North OC
Don’t have any details and I don’t really need any.
She is pretty pissed they are practicing but not letting them back in the classroom.


----------



## Ellejustus (Aug 18, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> North OC
> Don’t have any details and I don’t really need any.
> She is pretty pissed they are practicing but not letting them back in the classroom.


North OC has some tough gammers.  I moved my Sr year to Troy and it was big time sports in the Freeway League.  Football, Basketball and Hoops. Friday nights were packed with fans.


----------



## messy (Aug 18, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> North OC
> Don’t have any details and I don’t really need any.
> She is pretty pissed they are practicing but not letting them back in the classroom.


Do you suggest to her that maybe a difference could be that one is outdoors and one is indoors?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Aug 18, 2020)

messy said:


> Do you suggest to her that maybe a difference could be that one is outdoors and one is indoors?


I don’t need to.


----------



## jpeter (Sep 22, 2020)

Some good news, *Phase 1* is here
Los Angeles County Department of Public Health will now permit athletic and sports conditioning activities at school sites for youth sports.

Competition still prohibited but at least this start for the county, more places should be available for field use. CIF has a 3 phase approach for a eventual return to play.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 23, 2020)

jpeter said:


> Some good news, *Phase 1* is here
> Los Angeles County Department of Public Health will now permit athletic and sports conditioning activities at school sites for youth sports.
> 
> Competition still prohibited but at least this start for the county, more places should be available for field use. CIF has a 3 phase approach for a eventual return to play.


Was there a formal announcement?


----------



## Dargle (Sep 23, 2020)

Oregon just put return to play guidance that appears to allow league play to resume.  It's interesting that they classified soccer as minimal or medium-contact, along with sports like softball, baseball, and volleyball, rather than as a full contact sport such as football, basketball, and men's lacrosse, which are still prohibited.  That could be precedent if CA considers distinguishing between certain sports in determining which can play.

https://sharedsystems.dhsoha.state.or.us/DHSForms/Served/le2351E.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1had-cNNlqSUtKaSWvOcVE8uzQ2X4tGlazchm2x615aMSaooO-uHvgNpo


----------



## lafalafa (Sep 23, 2020)

Dargle said:


> Oregon just put return to play guidance that appears to allow league play to resume.  It's interesting that they classified soccer as minimal or medium-contact, along with sports like softball, baseball, and volleyball, rather than as a full contact sport such as football, basketball, and men's lacrosse, which are still prohibited.  That could be precedent if CA considers distinguishing between certain sports in determining which can play.
> 
> https://sharedsystems.dhsoha.state.or.us/DHSForms/Served/le2351E.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1had-cNNlqSUtKaSWvOcVE8uzQ2X4tGlazchm2x615aMSaooO-uHvgNpo


High school soccer has been classified as moderate risk by CIF along with baseball, basketball, softball, volleyball, water polo.

High risk is football, wrestling, choir, lacrosse boys, competitive cheer/dance.

Low risk: golf, tennis, x country, marching band, swimming,some track

Our LA school district is having a zoom meeting tomorrow night to discuss the return to school for "conditioning" for students athletes.  Wavier and medical clearance required before students can attend but interesting first students allowed back on campus will be athletic releated activities.

Phase 1 is likely cohort sized to 14 per group, no contact, no shared equipment, masks to/from, no locker rooms, 6-10 ft distance at all times, etc

Actual practices will be in phases 2-3 depending on the risk classification.


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 23, 2020)

Obviously our governor has more important things currently on his mind (hint: not youth sports)

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/california-governor-gavin-newsom-bans-174438751.html


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 23, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> High school soccer has been classified as moderate risk by CIF along with baseball, basketball, softball, volleyball, water polo.
> 
> High risk is football, wrestling, choir, lacrosse boys, competitive cheer/dance.
> 
> ...



My sons' private schools have implemented already and are practicing.  It's as you describe it.  They are still holding out hope for football in the new year but in California I'm not optimistic considering its highest risk.  Football and lacrosse are doing conditioning but wrestling choice and cheer aren't allowed to meet yet.


----------



## chiefs (Sep 23, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Obviously our governor has more important things currently on his mind (hint: not youth sports)
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/california-governor-gavin-newsom-bans-174438751.html


Instead of building energy capacity to avert even further energy crisis; he will tax citizens even further by cost of energy and cars. All these cars taxing the grid even further The dude has no leadership ability so he stick his head in the sand.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 23, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Instead of building energy capacity to avert even further energy crisis; he will tax citizens even further by cost of energy and cars. All these cars taxing the grid even further The dude has no leadership ability so he stick his head in the sand.


So does this mean more power outages in the summer? LOL.


----------



## chiefs (Sep 23, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> So does this mean more power outages in the summer? LOL.
> [/QUOTE
> My friend who was effected by the energy crisis couldn’t use his electric car


----------



## Glitterhater (Sep 23, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> My sons' private schools have implemented already and are practicing.  It's as you describe it.  They are still holding out hope for football in the new year but in California I'm not optimistic considering its highest risk.  Football and lacrosse are doing conditioning but wrestling choice and cheer aren't allowed to meet yet.


This is what is so confusing to so many people. At our local school, there is a large community field behind it. There was a football team practicing in full gear and contact just last weekend. It varies so widely!


----------



## espola (Sep 23, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Instead of building energy capacity to avert even further energy crisis; he will tax citizens even further by cost of energy and cars. All these cars taxing the grid even further The dude has no leadership ability so he stick his head in the sand.


Have we stopped the solar energy program?


----------



## socalkdg (Sep 23, 2020)

That is the thing with rules and laws.  They don't mean much if there is no one enforcing them.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 23, 2020)

If you wanna complain about solar power, electric cars, and Newsom, make your selves a thread for it over in off topic.  

For return to play/practice, we’ve got pretty consistent distanced practices now in norcal.  Still no local games or contact practice.  Some olders head to AZ.  Not many youngers.


----------



## Soccer Bum 06 (Sep 23, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Obviously our governor has more important things currently on his mind (hint: not youth sports)
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/california-governor-gavin-newsom-bans-174438751.html


By executive order I hereby announce the renaming of California to now be Newsomland. Are there any limits to the executive order powers in this state?


----------



## timbuck (Sep 23, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> So does this mean more power outages in the summer? LOL.


With so many people moving to solar-  how is the grid still so over used during a heatwave?


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 24, 2020)

This one is interesting.  If you believe it, basically the entire California approach is backwards......






						Science | AAAS
					






					science.sciencemag.org


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 24, 2020)

timbuck said:


> With so many people moving to solar-  how is the grid still so over used during a heatwave?


Just because couple of your neighbors in Ladera went to solar, doesn't mean that *majority* of homeowners did.


----------



## timbuck (Sep 24, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Just because couple of your neighbors in Ladera went to solar, doesn't mean that *majority* of homeowners did.


I believe CA building code requires all new residential construction to have some solar. As of a few years ago.


----------



## espola (Sep 24, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I believe CA building code requires all nee residential construction to have some solar. As of a few years ago.


2020.









						California Solar Mandate: What You Need To Know | EnergySage
					

New homes in California are required to have solar after January 1st, 2020. Here's what you need to know about the new law.




					news.energysage.com


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 25, 2020)

We are now just 20 days from CSL starting (unless they changed the date again) and 30 days for SCDSL to begin.   We need CalSouth to wake up and say something.  Nobody is allowed to do scrimmages at this time.  How are these soccer organizations expecting club teams to prepare for the fall season.   
The PAC 12 just announced college football to begin in November. College Basketball is also coming back Mid November.

Can someone who knows people at calsouth knock on their door to get them to take action?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 25, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I believe CA building code requires all new residential construction to have some solar. As of a few years ago.


Not the case in my area...lots of construction, no solar.


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 25, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> We are now just 20 days from CSL starting (unless they changed the date again) and 30 days for SCDSL to begin.   We need CalSouth to wake up and say something.  Nobody is allowed to do scrimmages at this time.  How are these soccer organizations expecting club teams to prepare for the fall season.
> The PAC 12 just announced college football to begin in November. College Basketball is also coming back Mid November.
> 
> Can someone who knows people at calsouth knock on their door to get them to take action?


Start the petition. We don't have enough of them circling around....


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 25, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Not the case in my area...lots of construction, no solar.


Agree. There are spec houses being put up directly around me and none have solar.


----------



## crush (Sep 25, 2020)

Soccer isn't the only biz in limbo.

Knock Knock, anyone home?  My question is who is asking on kids soccer behalf?  Disney and Berry have folks at least asking the State, "Were ready to open for business."  I think the kids are ready to play soccer, For Pete Sakes.........

*Disneyland stuck ‘in limbo’ waiting for California theme park reopening plan from state

'We are ready to open responsibly*, it is the time to open responsibly and it's important to open responsibly,' says Disneyland resort president Ken Potrock. 

*Knott’s Berry Farm frustrated with lack of California theme park reopening plans: ‘We’re ready to open’*

'Every time we ask them, "Can you help us understand what's going on here and why we can't open?" They just keep saying to us, "Well, you're different,"' says Cedar Fair regional vice president Raffi Kaprelyan.


----------



## chiefs (Sep 25, 2020)

crush said:


> Soccer isn't the only biz in limbo.
> 
> Knock Knock, anyone home?  My question is who is asking on kids soccer behalf?  Disney and Berry have folks at least asking the State, "Were ready to open for business."  I think the kids are ready to play soccer, For Pete Sakes.........
> 
> ...


never seen a more incompetent governor; Disney was working closely for months with Gavin and now  is throwing Gavin under the bus.  Can’t get worse. 
This is why we shut down everything?62269371901__CF5C3C78-C8FE-4B90-8BB0-01AC271DB55F.HEIC


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 25, 2020)

chiefs said:


> never seen a more incompetent governor; Disney was working closely for months with Gavin and now  is throwing Gavin under the bus.  Can’t get worse.
> This is why we shut down everything?62269371901__CF5C3C78-C8FE-4B90-8BB0-01AC271DB55F.HEIC


I haven't seen that before... all of California?


----------



## dad4 (Sep 25, 2020)

chiefs said:


> never seen a more incompetent governor; Disney was working closely for months with Gavin and now  is throwing Gavin under the bus.  Can’t get worse.
> This is why we shut down everything?62269371901__CF5C3C78-C8FE-4B90-8BB0-01AC271DB55F.HEIC


You really think opening _Disneyland_ is a good idea right now, ahead of other things?

How about we put the basketball hoops back up, sweep the sand from the skate parks, and allow outdoor sports teams to play a game or two?   You know, open up the cheap and low risk things before the expensive and high risk things.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 25, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You really think opening _Disneyland_ is a good idea right now, ahead of other things?
> 
> How about we put the basketball hoops back up, sweep the sand from the skate parks, and allow outdoor sports teams to play a game or two?   You know, open up the cheap and low risk things before the expensive and high risk things.


I can't wait to see what profile responds back to you.


----------



## chiefs (Sep 25, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> I haven't seen that before... all of California?


You see how politicians can’t hide anymore with their


dad4 said:


> You really think opening _Disneyland_ is a good idea right now, ahead of other things?
> 
> How about we put the basketball hoops back up, sweep the sand from the skate parks, and allow outdoor sports teams to play a game or two?   You know, open up the cheap and low risk things before the expensive and high risk things.


dude read the stats. It’s simple. Stop destroying the state.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 25, 2020)

chiefs said:


> You see how politicians can’t hide anymore with their
> 
> 
> dude read the stats. It’s simple. Stop destroying the state.


Read the stats?  I’m not convinced you understand the stats you post.

People who are good at math don’t post a 94.7% survival rate like it’s a good thing.   It means “one out of 19 dies”.


----------



## Glitterhater (Sep 25, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> I can't wait to see what profile responds back to you.


I think I could guess.


----------



## The HB Dad (Sep 25, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You really think opening _Disneyland_ is a good idea right now, ahead of other things?
> 
> How about we put the basketball hoops back up, sweep the sand from the skate parks, and allow outdoor sports teams to play a game or two?   You know, open up the cheap and low risk things before the expensive and high risk things.


florida and disneyworld seem to be doing okay.


----------



## Glitterhater (Sep 25, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Read the stats?  I’m not convinced you understand the stats you post.
> 
> People who are good at math don’t post a 94.7% survival rate like it’s a good thing.   It means “one out of 19 dies”.


Not arguing with you at all, but is that 1/19 a general number? Or specific to high risk? Not that either one is ok.. I'm just trying to understand.


----------



## The HB Dad (Sep 25, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Not arguing with you at all, but is that 1/19 a general number? Or specific to high risk? Not that either one is ok.. I'm just trying to understand.


yes. someone who gets covid at the age of 70+ has a one in 19 chance of surviving.


----------



## El Clasico (Sep 25, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> We are now just 20 days from CSL starting (unless they changed the date again) and 30 days for SCDSL to begin.   We need CalSouth to wake up and say something.  Nobody is allowed to do scrimmages at this time.  How are these soccer organizations expecting club teams to prepare for the fall season.
> The PAC 12 just announced college football to begin in November. College Basketball is also coming back Mid November.
> 
> Can someone who knows people at calsouth knock on their door to get them to take action?


CSL will not be starting in 20 days. The math is fairly easy. Pick a county, see what tier they are in and then count out the soonest available date that they can have full contact scrimmages. Add in the days needed to get to the level that allows for games and then add at least 2, and up to 4, weeks for organizations to get fields permits, goals, lining and everything else that goes into preparing for opening day.  Don't forget to have back up fields for clubs in areas with city or school hold outs unwilling to rent their fields.  You can do this for each county and understand that all counties need to be open for there to be enough fields.  Not enough field space for most clubs to have only home games..


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 25, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I believe CA building code requires all new residential construction to have some solar. As of a few years ago.


Colorado now has a building code requiring it for all new home builds.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 25, 2020)

Read the stats?  I’m not convinced you understand the stats you post.

People who are good at math don’t post a 94.7% survival rate like it’s a good thing.   It means “one out of 19 dies”.
[/QUOTE]


I saw that it was less than 1% or 0.006%      Once you factor in younger and under 70 you get much lower than 0.006









						Chances of getting COVID-19 are slim, dying from it even slimmer
					

It is very unlikely that you will die from the coronavirus.




					www.washingtontimes.com


----------



## dawson (Sep 25, 2020)

El Clasico said:


> CSL will not be starting in 20 days. The math is fairly easy. Pick a county, see what tier they are in and then count out the soonest available date that they can have full contact scrimmages. Add in the days needed to get to the level that allows for games and then add at least 2, and up to 4, weeks for organizations to get fields permits, goals, lining and everything else that goes into preparing for opening day.  Don't forget to have back up fields for clubs in areas with city or school hold outs unwilling to rent their fields.  You can do this for each county and understand that all counties need to be open for there to be enough fields.  Not enough field space for most clubs to have only home games..


 Unless something has changed the specific guidelines for  youth soccer relating to tiers does not exist .


----------



## lafalafa (Sep 25, 2020)

El Clasico said:


> CSL will not be starting in 20 days. The math is fairly easy. Pick a county, see what tier they are in and then count out the soonest available date that they can have full contact scrimmages. Add in the days needed to get to the level that allows for games and then add at least 2, and up to 4, weeks for organizations to get fields permits, goals, lining and everything else that goes into preparing for opening day.  Don't forget to have back up fields for clubs in areas with city or school hold outs unwilling to rent their fields.  You can do this for each county and understand that all counties need to be open for there to be enough fields.  Not enough field space for most clubs to have only home games..


Get what your saying but doesn't matter what tier a county is in.  The youth sports guidance August from the state does'nt currently allow scrimmages or games.   That needs to change before things can move forward.  Some counties like LA have added other conditions on top of the state guidance.

USYS has now decided to do something, better late vs never but Cal South and other organizations should have done this before August and worked with the state closer like CIF.   Instead what they put out where inadequate returns to play:  do some camps for a couple weeks and then you can scrimmage two weeks later.  Instead of this bogus return should have been a little bit more thoughtfull. 

 The state yes they have classified youth sports in a higher risk categories than what's reasonable but these youth sports organizations haven't done us any favors or helped much in correctly the oversite so they need to do a better job and take some of the responsibilities and actually get returns to play that don't look like a half backed effort to keep the $ following but don't do much else.


----------



## socalkdg (Sep 25, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You really think opening _Disneyland_ is a good idea right now, ahead of other things?
> 
> How about we put the basketball hoops back up, sweep the sand from the skate parks, and allow outdoor sports teams to play a game or two?   You know, open up the cheap and low risk things before the expensive and high risk things.


Why not do both.   

Disneyworld in Florida reopened in July, at which time cases were 10,000 per day.   Two months later cases are at 2750 per day. Disneyworld hasn't been an issue.  Let them open.  Jobs, revenue, entertainment, normalcy, safety.  Safer than any of the stores I've been into where some people still don't wear masks.  

FYI every park I've been to has basketball playing non-stop in the evenings.   All the fields have soccer players.   Games won't make any difference in the safety of kids.


----------



## Footy30 (Sep 25, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Get what your saying but doesn't matter what tier a county is in.  The youth sports guidance August from the state does'nt currently allow scrimmages or games.   That needs to change before things can move forward.  Some counties like LA have added other conditions on top of the state guidance.
> 
> USYS has now decided to do something, better late vs never but Cal South and other organizations should have done this before August and worked with the state closer like CIF.   Instead what they put out where inadequate returns to play:  do some camps for a couple weeks and then you can scrimmage two weeks later.  Instead of this bogus return should have been a little bit more thoughtfull.
> 
> The state yes they have classified youth sports in a higher risk categories than what's reasonable but these youth sports organizations haven't done us any favors or helped much in correctly the oversite so they need to do a better job and take some of the responsibilities and actually get returns to play that don't look like a half backed effort to keep the $ following but don't do much else.


I know you don't have the answer, nobody does. But you seem to be one of the more informed and realistic posters on here, so my question is what do you think the chances are that US Club sanctioned leagues will be playing around Thanksgiving? Here in SoCal (ECNL and ECRL specifically) just your best educated guess. Thanks @lafalafa


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 25, 2020)

Hate to say it but the litigious society we created helped make this mess.  Everyone is afraid to expose themselves to blame, ridicule and lawsuits.  When all of US were kids, you were liable for your own stupidity... not anyone else's.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Sep 25, 2020)

dawson said:


> Unless something has changed the specific guidelines for  youth soccer relating to tiers does not exist .


That is correct and the core of the problem.  CDPH's August document was last updated on Sep 18 and scrimmages/games are still banned.  I don't have the previous version so I don't know what the updates are.  But in the last paragraph you can see this document doesn't apply to college sports.  Sep 18 was two days after Big10 decided to play fall football, so you can draw your own conclusion on whether the policy is based on $ or public health.






						Youth Sports Q&A
					






					www.cdph.ca.gov


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 25, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Hate to say it but the litigious society we created helped make this mess.  Everyone is afraid to expose themselves to blame, ridicule and lawsuits.  When all of US were kids, you were liable for your own stupidity... not anyone else's.


That's why I stopped skateboarding barefoot. It was stupid. And I did it for years.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 25, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> That's why I stopped skateboarding barefoot. It was stupid. And I did it for years.


No shit.  In the 70's & 80's, if you took your Mongoose to some leftover pieces of board your father left in the garage, it was on you.  Nowadays, they're suing Mongoose, the Wal Mart it was purchased at, the 64-year old guy getting paid $12 an hour to put a Mongoose together, Home Depot, U.S. Concrete Company, the homeowner's association, the city, the county, the United States and every neighbor that didn't warn you about being a jackass before the jump.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 25, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> No shit.  In the 70's & 80's, if you took your Mongoose to some leftover pieces of board your father left in the garage, it was on you.  Nowadays, they're suing Mongoose, the Wal Mart it was purchased at, the 64-year old guy getting paid $12 an hour to put a Mongoose together, Home Depot, U.S. Concrete Company, the homeowner's association, the city, the county, the United States and every neighbor that didn't warn you about being a jackass before the jump.


I was a GT or PK Ripper rider. But, I always wanted a Haro race bike.

Addendum: My brother built a half pipe in our backyard. We had everyone over on boards or bikes. The chaos and injuries. But, no parent ever said a word.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 25, 2020)

crush said:


> Soccer isn't the only biz in limbo.
> 
> Knock Knock, anyone home?  My question is who is asking on kids soccer behalf?  Disney and Berry have folks at least asking the State, "Were ready to open for business."  I think the kids are ready to play soccer, For Pete Sakes.........
> 
> ...


The problem with Disneyland is that once you go there it's the whole ball of wax.  You'd have a hard time telling people they can send their kid to Disneyland, but not to school or outdoor sports.  You'd have a hard time telling the outdoor arenas they can't even open at half capacity.  You'd have a hard time arguing to the churches they can't reopen at full capacity.  You remove any justification for keeping the playgrounds closed.

California already saw that with the nail salon industry....if you open hair salons it's really hard to say no to the nail salons.  What's worse is that everyone knows viruses tranmit at Disneyland due to the measles outbreak there.  And we also know from Disney fan behavior over Labor Day in Downtown Disney that they will congregate.

So what's happening here is that California is caught between a rock and a hard place, with places like Anaheim screaming to open it up, but places like La County screaming to keep it closed (Universal would be next and they know the knives will be out for the schools to be open...remember La County isn't even giving elementary schools waivers).  Think of the visuals: kids frolicking at Disneyland (which even in lower capacity can get congested at spots) then images of schools closed.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 25, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The problem with Disneyland is that once you go there it's the whole ball of wax.  You'd have a hard time telling people they can send their kid to Disneyland, but not to school or outdoor sports.  You'd have a hard time telling the outdoor arenas they can't even open at half capacity.  You'd have a hard time arguing to the churches they can't reopen at full capacity.  You remove any justification for keeping the playgrounds closed.
> 
> California already saw that with the nail salon industry....if you open hair salons it's really hard to say no to the nail salons.  What's worse is that everyone knows viruses tranmit at Disneyland due to the measles outbreak there.  And we also know from Disney fan behavior over Labor Day in Downtown Disney that they will congregate.
> 
> So what's happening here is that California is caught between a rock and a hard place, with places like Anaheim screaming to open it up, but places like La County screaming to keep it closed (Universal would be next and they know the knives will be out for the schools to be open...remember La County isn't even giving elementary schools waivers).  Think of the visuals: kids frolicking at Disneyland (which even in lower capacity can get congested at spots) then images of schools closed.


Who in LA County is screaming to “keep it closed”, the Mayor?  Cause the people (outside of maybe the homeless who have thrived under this shelter in place) want it open.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 25, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Not arguing with you at all, but is that 1/19 a general number? Or specific to high risk? Not that either one is ok.. I'm just trying to understand.


Nothing there but math.  94.7% survival rate means 5.3% do not survive.  5.3% means 53/1000, or about 1/19.   So, if people over 70 have a 94.7 survival rate, that’s just another way of saying 1 out of 19 people die.  

I shouldn’t have responded.  The thread has been killed by covid, and I helped.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 25, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The problem with Disneyland is that once you go there it's the whole ball of wax. You'd have a hard time telling people they can send their kid to Disneyland, but not to school or outdoor sports.


And yet just down the road, Sea World is open.


----------



## gotothebushes (Sep 25, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> No shit.  In the 70's & 80's, if you took your Mongoose to some leftover pieces of board your father left in the garage, it was on you.  Nowadays, they're suing Mongoose, the Wal Mart it was purchased at, the 64-year old guy getting paid $12 an hour to put a Mongoose together, Home Depot, U.S. Concrete Company, the homeowner's association, the city, the county, the United States and every neighbor that didn't warn you about being a jackass before the jump.


Wait! Did you just say Mongoose?Wow those were the days.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 25, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> And yet just down the road, Sea World is open.


They can try and distinguish Sea World  Calling it a "zoo".  San Diego is in the red and doesn't draw from LA County.  And it's "Disneyland".  When this thing started remember Disney tried to get a special exemption for Disneyland on crowd exemptions and there was that push back.  The problem is Disney is an icon everyone can point to in making their argument.  The visuals are horrible too.  Hence the foot dragging.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 25, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> Wait! Did you just say Mongoose?Wow those were the days.


Mongoose vs. Red Line

My neighbor has had a bicycle left in the driveway, with a "FREE" sign on it, for over 3 weeks now.  Fucking kids won't even steal it.  Probably don't know what it is.


----------



## TOSDCI (Sep 25, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> They can try and distinguish Sea World  Calling it a "zoo".  San Diego is in the red and doesn't draw from LA County.  And it's "Disneyland".  When this thing started remember Disney tried to get a special exemption for Disneyland on crowd exemptions and there was that push back.  The problem is Disney is an icon everyone can point to in making their argument.  The visuals are horrible too.  Hence the foot dragging.


Sea World is "open" kinda.  There are a lot of attractions that aren't.  I believe the SD Zoo and Safari Park are open as well.


----------



## azsnowrider (Sep 25, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I was a GT or PK Ripper rider. But, I always wanted a Haro race bike.
> 
> Addendum: My brother built a half pipe in our backyard. We had everyone over on boards or bikes. The chaos and injuries. But, no parent ever said a word.


Only word my parents said was "well that's gonna hurt for a while". Getting hurt at your buddy's was a way of life...  Had a few GT's and always liked the Rippers, But my favorite was the Redline with flights and Skyway's....


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 25, 2020)

azsnowrider said:


> Only word my parents said was "well that's gonna hurt for a while". Getting hurt at your buddy's was a way of life...  Had a few GT's and always liked the Rippers, But my favorite was the Redline with flights and Skyway's....


Another great bike at the time.


----------



## baller (Sep 25, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Mongoose vs. Red Line
> 
> My neighbor has had a bicycle left in the driveway, with a "FREE" sign on it, for over 3 weeks now.  Fucking kids won't even steal it.  Probably don't know what it is.


Can't leave out Diamondback and everyone's number plate had this guy on it.  Good old days.  Starting to sound like my dad.


----------



## 3leches (Sep 25, 2020)

Is San Diego county allowing scrimmages, yet?


----------



## Anon9 (Sep 25, 2020)

3leches said:


> Is San Diego county allowing scrimmages, yet?


Nobody is allowing anything that requires players to get within 6 feet.


----------



## chiefs (Sep 25, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The problem with Disneyland is that once you go there it's the whole ball of wax.  You'd have a hard time telling people they can send their kid to Disneyland, but not to school or outdoor sports.  You'd have a hard time telling the outdoor arenas they can't even open at half capacity.  You'd have a hard time arguing to the churches they can't reopen at full capacity.  You remove any justification for keeping the playgrounds closed.
> 
> California already saw that with the nail salon industry....if you open hair salons it's really hard to say no to the nail salons.  What's worse is that everyone knows viruses tranmit at Disneyland due to the measles outbreak there.  And we also know from Disney fan behavior over Labor Day in Downtown Disney that they will congregate.
> 
> So what's happening here is that California is caught between a rock and a hard place, with places like Anaheim screaming to open it up, but places like La County screaming to keep it closed (Universal would be next and they know the knives will be out for the schools to be open...remember La County isn't even giving elementary schools waivers).  Think of the visuals: kids frolicking at Disneyland (which even in lower capacity can get congested at spots) then images of schools closed.


Max pressure campaign; sad it has to get to this level/pleading. 









						New commercial ramps up pressure on Newsom to reopen Disneyland
					

The new ad was released by the Reopen O.C. Now coalition of Anaheim, Buena Park and Garden Grove city leaders and the Anaheim Chamber of Commerce.




					www.ocregister.com


----------



## 3leches (Sep 25, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Nobody is allowing anything that requires players to get within 6 feet.


Interesting... cause there will be a club hosting friendlies next weekend, maybe an exemption has been made.


----------



## ToonArmy (Sep 25, 2020)

Remember when Haro was the thing? I was always a GT guy or dreamed of owning one cause it was a local company and Gary Turner and his brother lived there when I was a kid but never got to own one my parents wouldn't hook me up I had a Schwinn bmx but put some sick CW handle bars on it and cruised around like the poser I am. Now I got a free agent cruiser I hop the city curbs on.


----------



## gotothebushes (Sep 25, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Mongoose vs. Red Line
> 
> My neighbor has had a bicycle left in the driveway, with a "FREE" sign on it, for over 3 weeks now.  Fucking kids won't even steal it.  Probably don't know what it is.


Ride and die on my Mongoose. I have 4 bikes in my garage for my kids that haven't been ridden in months. Growing up I stayed on my bike til the street lights came on. Its all about Tiktok these days!


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 25, 2020)

ToonArmy said:


> Remember when Haro was the thing? I was always a GT guy or dreamed of owning one cause it was a local company and Gary Turner and his brother lived there when I was a kid but never got to own one my parents wouldn't hook me up I had a Schwinn bmx but put some sick CW handle bars on it and cruised around like the poser I am. Now I got a free agent cruiser I hop the city curbs on.


Picked up an electric bike. Love doing 30 mph.


----------



## watfly (Sep 25, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Mongoose vs. Red Line
> 
> My neighbor has had a bicycle left in the driveway, with a "FREE" sign on it, for over 3 weeks now.  Fucking kids won't even steal it.  Probably don't know what it is.


Maybe I'm just too old, but what about DG and Webco?


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 25, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Nobody is allowing anything that requires players to get within 6 feet.


yep, but every club is doing it, SD or otherwise. There are few left who is doing it by the book, but less and less, and less.......


----------



## socalkdg (Sep 25, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> yep, but every club is doing it, SD or otherwise. There are few left who is doing it by the book, but less and less, and less.......


As I've mentioned we lost 3 girls from last season.  Two aren't playing this year at all.  One of the reasons given by the girl that switched teams was that we weren't ramping up fast enough.  So off to the big club in our area.


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 25, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> As I've mentioned we lost 3 girls from last season.  Two aren't playing this year at all.  One of the reasons given by the girl that switched teams was that we weren't ramping up fast enough.  So off to the big club in our area.


yep, here you go


----------



## futboldad1 (Sep 25, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> As I've mentioned we lost 3 girls from last season.  Two aren't playing this year at all.  One of the reasons given by the girl that switched teams was that we weren't ramping up fast enough.  So off to the big club in our area.


At least they were honest but man that is so short sighted by that family...... sorry it happened to your team and in the long run you'll be stronger with a team of families who "get it"....... all of this said man does Calif need to allow full soccer activity already


----------



## lafalafa (Sep 25, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> I know you don't have the answer, nobody does. But you seem to be one of the more informed and realistic posters on here, so my question is what do you think the chances are that US Club sanctioned leagues will be playing around Thanksgiving? Here in SoCal (ECNL and ECRL specifically) just your best educated guess. Thanks @lafalafa


Predicting the future is a tricky business... some of the more efluent leagues may see October participation for Socal on the away circuits or in other states.  Some limited facilities are giving out or close to permitting later October tentative play dates.

For teams that are fortunate to have their away schedule at fields that are open out of state or a some of the limited open play fields in certain counties they might get some or more games in for the fall.

The haves, not, or very few games could be a sticky point among teams in a league group:  X has 6 games, YZ have 1-2 or none until later dates kind of deal, W has a full slate of 8 because there out of state.


----------



## jimlewis (Sep 25, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Nobody is allowing anything that requires players to get within 6 feet.


Well thats not true


----------



## 3leches (Sep 25, 2020)

Yep not true, it's confirmed 3 teams are scrimmaging next weekend in Oceanside.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 25, 2020)

I'm not sure why youth basketball, indoors, is being allowed and outdoor soccer isn't.


----------



## Anon9 (Sep 25, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> Well thats not true


Ok. So where in California is a scrimmage allowed?


----------



## Anon9 (Sep 25, 2020)

I’m not saying people aren’t scrimmaging, what I’m saying is it is not allowed.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 25, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> I'm not sure why youth basketball, indoors, is being allowed and outdoor soccer isn't.


That's exactly my point. Seems like CalSouth fell asleep while other sports are just moving along without any approvals from the state.


----------



## timbuck (Sep 25, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> Wait! Did you just say Mongoose?Wow those were the days.


I've been looking to purchase a lime green FS1 with the white mag wheels.  Like the one some jackass stole from me when I while I was working the morning shift at McDonalds when I was 15.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 25, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I've been looking to purchase a lime green FS1 with the white mag wheels.  Like the one some jackass stole from me when I while I was working the mornign shift at McDonalds when I was 15.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 25, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> Ride and die on my Mongoose. I have 4 bikes in my garage for my kids that haven't been ridden in months. Growing up I stayed on my bike til the street lights came on. Its all about Tiktok these days!


This is a bike.


----------



## Gkdad1 (Sep 25, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Ok. So where in California is a scrimmage allowed?


More and more you see parents getting teams together from different clubs and playing scrimmages without club gear on at local schools and parks. Most times done without coaches involvement so there is no issue for the club.


----------



## timbuck (Sep 25, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> View attachment 9087


That’s the one.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 25, 2020)

timbuck said:


> That’s the one.


Cool bike.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 25, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Cool bike.


They always ride faster when they're free, too.


----------



## NorCalDad (Sep 25, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Mongoose vs. Red Line
> 
> My neighbor has had a bicycle left in the driveway, with a "FREE" sign on it, for over 3 weeks now.  Fucking kids won't even steal it.  Probably don't know what it is.


Red Line was where it was at for sure. 

They should put a sign with "$10" on it....will be gone the next day.


----------



## El Clasico (Sep 25, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> This is a bike.
> View attachment 9088



Where did you find that bike? Your bike in your house or a random picture off a for sale ad?  If so, how much?


----------



## JumboJack (Sep 25, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Agree. There are spec houses being put up directly around me and none have solar.


If the permits were pulled in 2019 they don’t have to have solar. There are a couple of carve outs (shade because  of trees and a couple other things) but as of 2020 all new construction must have solar.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 25, 2020)

El Clasico said:


> Where did you find that bike? Your bike in your house or a random picture off a for sale ad?  If so, how much?


It was a pic online. But, I had one similar in the 80’s. I also had a GT chromed out. And, a Schwinn magged out. Never owned a Mongoose. Nor a Haro.


----------



## El Clasico (Sep 25, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> It was a pic online. But, I had one similar in the 80’s. I also had a GT chromed out. And, a Schwinn magged out. Never owned a Mongoose. Nor a Haro.


Still have a Schwinn, had a Mongoose.  Always wanted the Ripper


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 25, 2020)

El Clasico said:


> Still have a Schwinn, had a Mongoose.  Always wanted the Ripper


PK was my favorite.


----------



## tjinaz (Sep 25, 2020)

Well it over now.....

PAC-12 is going to play.   You know cause science... nothing to do with the rest of the country playing already.. nothing to do with money or losing athletes to other schools if they didn't.   How is Newsom going to deny youth sports now?  

PAC-12 resuming play


----------



## tjinaz (Sep 25, 2020)

Here is the other article saying it was the USC football team griping that brought this about.  Can't have other schools making all that money.  They don't play and it hurts their recruiting and retention.

USC Needs $$$


----------



## chiefs (Sep 25, 2020)

tjinaz said:


> Well it over now.....
> 
> PAC-12 is going to play.   You know cause science... nothing to do with the rest of the country playing already.. nothing to do with money or losing athletes to other schools if they didn't.   How is Newsom going to deny youth sports now?
> 
> PAC-12 resuming play


Governor for the State of Florida has taken the ball and is running. He just announced 100% open for everything. He even mentioned youth sports 100% open since early summer.


----------



## Chalklines (Sep 26, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Governor for the State of Florida has taken the ball and is running. He just announced 100% open for everything. He even mentioned youth sports 100% open since early summer.


More then 2 people die of skin cancer in the US ever HOUR. Thats 48+ deaths per day or 18000+ deaths per year. 

9500+ people are diagnosed with skin cancer daily 

Should we board the windows and only come out only out at night? Maybe start living under ground and cancel all out door activity during the day? Im surprised the Worlds not on lock down over this let alone California !?!?!

Sun exposures worse off then Covid. Can we please resume life already.


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 26, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Governor for the State of Florida has taken the ball and is running. He just announced 100% open for everything. He even mentioned youth sports 100% open since early summer.


Of course he did.


----------



## espola (Sep 26, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Governor for the State of Florida has taken the ball and is running. He just announced 100% open for everything. He even mentioned youth sports 100% open since early summer.


I guess somebody had to volunteer for the experiment.


----------



## watfly (Sep 26, 2020)

In our neighborhood Girls softball games are in full swing (pardon the pun).  I'd argue that softball and baseball has more close contact than soccer when you consider all the dugout time.


----------



## mlx (Sep 26, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> More then 2 people die of skin cancer in the US ever HOUR. Thats 48+ deaths per day or 18000+ deaths per year.
> 
> 9500+ people are diagnosed with skin cancer daily
> 
> ...


This attempt of analogy shows the lack of critical thinking of a sector of the population. 

Your grandma won't get skin cancer and die from it by being exposed to someone who has it at church.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 26, 2020)

mlx said:


> Your grandma won't get skin cancer and die from it by being exposed to someone who has it at church.


Odds are, she won’t die from Covid IF she were to catch it.


----------



## chiefs (Sep 26, 2020)

espola said:


> I guess somebody had to volunteer for the experiment.


Whose in the experiment? Calif citizens who lost their constitutional rights? Just clarify whose in the grand experiment.


----------



## jimlewis (Sep 26, 2020)

mlx said:


> This attempt of analogy shows the lack of critical thinking of a sector of the population.
> 
> Your grandma won't get skin cancer and die from it by being exposed to someone who has it at church.


Grams will also struggle and potentially die from a bad bout of the flu.  does that mean she never goes out ever again?


----------



## Glitterhater (Sep 26, 2020)

I have to laugh because the title of this thread by no means is a good indicator of what the thread is actually about!

Is anyone else tired of the constant COVID talk? I get it, there's not much else to talk about. But damn if it's not played out.


----------



## crush (Sep 26, 2020)

I just had coffee across from ASU football stadium.  What a place to play ball   Play ball!!!


----------



## SoccerLocker (Sep 26, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> I have to laugh because the title of this thread by no means is a good indicator of what the thread is actually about!
> 
> Is anyone else tired of the constant COVID talk? I get it, there's not much else to talk about. But damn if it's not played out.


Totally agree, need to get back on topic.  Still miss my Kuwahara:


----------



## Soccerbabe3 (Sep 26, 2020)

How are the scrimmages in AZ this weekend?


----------



## crush (Sep 26, 2020)

Soccerbabe3 said:


> How are the scrimmages in AZ this weekend?


----------



## timbuck (Sep 26, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> View attachment 9087


Just did a little eBay search. 80s bmx and freestyle bikes are selling for $3k.  Geez.  I’d maybe spend $500 to get the old like green mongoose. (I think that’s about what I paid for it back in the day).


----------



## crush (Sep 26, 2020)

Just kidding with the last post. It's hot with talented soccer players who are committed to the next level   It's nice out here btw.  I love the new River Walk.


----------



## Y_T (Sep 26, 2020)

mlx said:


> This attempt of analogy shows the lack of critical thinking of a sector of the population.
> 
> Your grandma won't get skin cancer and die from it by being exposed to someone who has it at church.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 26, 2020)

crush said:


> Just kidding with the last post. It's hot with talented soccer players who are committed to the next level   It's nice out here btw.  I love the new River Walk.


It's a dry heat.  Did you drag your goat across the street to the soccer field?  The couple of times I've been there the gate is open and you can walk around until you're caught.


----------



## crush (Sep 26, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> It's a dry heat.  Did you drag your goat across the street to the soccer field?  The couple of times I've been there the gate is open and you can walk around until you're caught.


No, no, no, no, she was sleeping Outlaw with mama bear.  I dragged myself for a peak.  I never drag my dd to anything.  She's been dragging me across state line two weeks in a row.  Back here in late Oct for Opening Day Weekend.  Super pumped up for real games to start up.  She likes AZ and has a lot of nice things to say about the State.  Nocal getting in some futbol?  Hope we can all play in California soon.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 26, 2020)

crush said:


> No, no, no, no, she was sleeping Outlaw with mama bear.  I dragged myself for a peak.  I never drag my dd to anything.  She's been dragging me across state line two weeks in a row.  Back here in late Oct for Opening Day Weekend.  Super pumped up for real games to start up.  She likes AZ and has a lot of nice things to say about the State.  Nocal getting in some futbol?  Hope we can all play in California soon.


You need to show her the complex.  If you have time, U of A is only 2 hours away.  Make sure you do it on one of the trips.

Norcal is getting in some futbol... legally or otherwise.


----------



## Goalie1310 (Sep 26, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I was a GT or PK Ripper rider. But, I always wanted a Haro race bike.
> 
> Addendum: My brother built a half pipe in our backyard. We had everyone over on boards or bikes. The chaos and injuries. But, no parent ever said a word.


I was a Redline ,Haro group 5 and the ole schwinn for the beach 80’s babies great times.


----------



## happy9 (Sep 26, 2020)

crush said:


> Just kidding with the last post. It's hot with talented soccer players who are committed to the next level   It's nice out here btw.  I love the new River Walk.


Take the drive to Tucson - that U o A team is pretty good.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Sep 26, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> More then 2 people die of skin cancer in the US ever HOUR. Thats 48+ deaths per day or 18000+ deaths per year.
> 
> 9500+ people are diagnosed with skin cancer daily
> 
> ...


Not sure where you got your numbers but the CDC reported...."In *2017*, the latest year for which incidence data are available, in the *United States*, *85,686 new cases of Melanomas of the skin* were reported, and *8,056  people died *of this cancer."


----------



## Chalklines (Sep 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Not sure where you got your numbers but the CDC reported...."In *2017*, the latest year for which incidence data are available, in the *United States*, *85,686 new cases of Melanomas of the skin* were reported, and *8,056  people died *of this cancer."











						Skin Cancer Facts & Statistics - The Skin Cancer Foundation
					

Get the latest facts & statistics about skin cancer, the most common cancer in the United States and worldwide, from experts at The Skin Cancer Foundation.




					www.skincancer.org
				



.

references listed at the bottom of the page.

You actually believe the CDC's data collection methods? Did you forget 6%????!!!!!????


----------



## Keepermom2 (Sep 26, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> Skin Cancer Facts & Statistics - The Skin Cancer Foundation
> 
> 
> Get the latest facts & statistics about skin cancer, the most common cancer in the United States and worldwide, from experts at The Skin Cancer Foundation.
> ...


You are looking at the world statistics and the statistics I quoted are from US.   For the world, deaths from Covid is almost 1 million so far this year. 18,000 deaths compared to 1 million deaths from COVID SO FAR this year doesn't seem to make your point.


----------



## Chalklines (Sep 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> You are looking at the world statistics and the statistics I quoted are from US.   For the world, deaths from Covid is almost 1 million so far this year. 18,000 deaths compared to 1 million deaths from COVID SO FAR this year doesn't seem to make your point.


Click on the link then get back to me. I can't help people who can't read.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Sep 26, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> Click on the link then get back to me. I can't help people who can't read.


18,000 deaths for a year compared to 204,000 deaths from COVID SO FAR in the US.  How does your comparison make any sense?


----------



## Keepermom2 (Sep 26, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> Click on the link then get back to me. I can't help people who can't read.


There have been 600 deaths from skin cancer here in California compared to 15,542 deaths from Covid SO FAR this year.   I think the American Cancer Society is a pretty good source of information.  






						American Cancer Society | Cancer Facts & Statistics
					

Explore, interact with, and share cancer statistics. The website provides detailed statistics on a range of topics including estimated new cancer cases and deaths by sex, state, and cancer type in the current year.




					cancerstatisticscenter.cancer.org


----------



## Chalklines (Sep 26, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> There have been 600 deaths from skin cancer here in California compared to 15,542 deaths from Covid SO FAR this year.   I think the American Cancer Society is a pretty good source of information.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the joke from my original post completely went over your head......‍


----------



## crush (Sep 26, 2020)

Road to the ECNL finals started today.  Great job to all the girls playing in da heat.  My wife and I got to meet up with Desert Hound and his lovely wife and got some beautiful pics. League starts in 4 weeks so no more laying around and time to ball.  Great stuff and DH, truly nice meeting you bro


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 26, 2020)

crush said:


> Great stuff and DH, truly nice meeting you bro


Yep. I agree. Nice to meet the two of you. My DD enjoyed playing against your goat. She was worried that we all were going to Buffalo Wild Wings. I told her that was the plan. She didn't find out that wasn't the plan til after the game. Apparently our Dads talked during the game and thought both of us are crazy.


----------



## PossessionSoccer (Sep 26, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Just did a little eBay search. 80s bmx and freestyle bikes are selling for $3k.  Geez.  I’d maybe spend $500 to get the old like green mongoose. (I think that’s about what I paid for it back in the day).


I still have mine from 1981


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 26, 2020)

PossessionSoccer said:


> I still have mine from 1981View attachment 9096


No flipping way! Bitchin!


----------



## timbuck (Sep 26, 2020)

PossessionSoccer said:


> I still have mine from 1981View attachment 9096


That’s probably worth more than my car. Check eBay for what those are going for. Crazy!!


----------



## watfly (Sep 27, 2020)

Speaking of BMX, when your governing association works with the local government you get to hold a State race with 85 motos in SoCal.  CalSouth should try it.  Full face helmets make great masks.


----------



## watfly (Sep 27, 2020)

watfly said:


> Speaking of BMX, when your governing association works with the local government you get to hold a State race with 85 motos in SoCal.  CalSouth should try it.  Full face helmets make great masks.


----------



## crush (Sep 28, 2020)

Great soccer weekend.  So many positives to take away.  I was driving back through Indio and saw soccer fields with players playing.  Full on games.  It was next to Big Casino.   I must say I felt a little sick to my tummy because I was heading into a nice hour delay before the 60/10 split.  My brain was split too.  One part was happy for the kids and other half was all pissed.  It amazes me how our little brains work.  Unfortunately, my pissed off side took over.  My road rage blood pressure started to tic up because I saw all those kids playing in Indio, California.  Does anyone have any insight into these fields?  Special waiver for the Indian reservations?  This morning, I'm happy that some kids can play in California


----------



## Luis Andres (Sep 28, 2020)

crush said:


> Great soccer weekend.  So many positives to take away.  I was driving back through Indio and saw soccer fields with players playing.  Full on games.  It was next to Big Casino.   I must say I felt a little sick to my tummy because I was heading into a nice hour delay before the 60/10 split.  My brain was split too.  One part was happy for the kids and other half was all pissed.  It amazes me how our little brains work.  Unfortunately, my pissed off side took over.  My road rage blood pressure started to tic up because I saw all those kids playing in Indio, California.  Does anyone have any insight into these fields?  Special waiver for the Indian reservations?  This morning, I'm happy that some kids can play in California


I think people are just starting to get fed up with the communist dictators from up north. We’ve had enough of the covid BS. You think a virus will survive in that hot desert weather? I laugh. I went up to Chumash casino over the weekend and it was everyone gambling elbows to elbows, masks down cause they had to have their cigarettes and drinks same like being in a restaurant. If you are walking wear a mask. If you are sitting next to a stranger you can take off the mask to smoke and drink. Lmao. Meanwhile no soccer for the kids.


----------



## Luis Andres (Sep 28, 2020)

ridiculous. Sit down and take off your mask to smoke, drink & gamble next to strangers. Ohh but kids can’t play soccer in the open air. Where is the logic?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 28, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> View attachment 9101
> ridiculous. Sit down and take off your mask to smoke, drink & gamble next to strangers. Ohh but kids can’t play soccer in the open air. Where is the logic?


If you were a virus, would you want to be in any of those bodies?


----------



## Anon9 (Sep 28, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> If you were a virus, would you want to be in any of those bodies?


Or minds


----------



## socalkdg (Sep 28, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> View attachment 9101
> ridiculous. Sit down and take off your mask to smoke, drink & gamble next to strangers. Ohh but kids can’t play soccer in the open air. Where is the logic?


The smoke kills the virus.   Our kids just need to smoke and play at the same time.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 28, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> I think people are just starting to get fed up with the communist dictators from up north. We’ve had enough of the covid BS. You think a virus will survive in that hot desert weather? I laugh. I went up to Chumash casino over the weekend and it was everyone gambling elbows to elbows, masks down cause they had to have their cigarettes and drinks same like being in a restaurant. If you are walking wear a mask. If you are sitting next to a stranger you can take off the mask to smoke and drink. Lmao. Meanwhile no soccer for the kids.


No complaint from me if you want to close down all casinos until we have a vaccine.  That would make sense.  

Instead, we have what we have.  High risk adults can go to casinos, movie theaters, and restaurants.  Low risk kids can’t even play a game together outside.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 28, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Instead, we have what we have.  High risk adults can go to casinos, movie theaters, and restaurants.  Low risk kids can’t even play a game together outside.


Thanks to a severe lack of leadership at the State level!


----------



## lafalafa (Sep 28, 2020)

crush said:


> Great soccer weekend.  So many positives to take away.  I was driving back through Indio and saw soccer fields with players playing.  Full on games.  It was next to Big Casino.   I must say I felt a little sick to my tummy because I was heading into a nice hour delay before the 60/10 split.  My brain was split too.  One part was happy for the kids and other half was all pissed.  It amazes me how our little brains work.  Unfortunately, my pissed off side took over.  My road rage blood pressure started to tic up because I saw all those kids playing in Indio, California.  Does anyone have any insight into these fields?  Special waiver for the Indian reservations?  This morning, I'm happy that some kids can play in California


Sovereign Nation most guidance does'nt apply since they have there own laws & rules.

The swell and waves where nice for a while and some 5v5's on private property went down.

Some cities and complexs are giving out or considering oct play dates with limited test run scrimmages coming up to see if they can maintain some sort of distancing.  What I heard if teams can follow the rules they will give out more play dates so there is hope if you're outside of Cal South and don't rely on school fields much.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 28, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> The smoke kills the virus.   Our kids just need to smoke and play at the same time.


You might be onto something.  Host matches at casinos.  Lots of smoke, b.o., watered down drinks and cleavage from 65-year old cocktail waitresses.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 28, 2020)

We were told that Redondo School district is going to allow HS athletics to return to campus for non contact training on 10/12.  We will see if the goal posts move again, but for now we have something.


----------



## Giesbock (Sep 28, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> I think people are just starting to get fed up with the communist dictators from up north. We’ve had enough of the covid BS. You think a virus will survive in that hot desert weather? I laugh. I went up to Chumash casino over the weekend and it was everyone gambling elbows to elbows, masks down cause they had to have their cigarettes and drinks same like being in a restaurant. If you are walking wear a mask. If you are sitting next to a stranger you can take off the mask to smoke and drink. Lmao. Meanwhile no soccer for the kids.


Sounds like a great crowd ready to be part of the next surge in deaths...

And as a result, sports for our kids will be delayed even longer.

Why do you laugh at or applaud that kind of behavior?

Personal freedom?


----------



## espola (Sep 28, 2020)

dad4 said:


> No complaint from me if you want to close down all casinos until we have a vaccine.  That would make sense.
> 
> Instead, we have what we have.  High risk adults can go to casinos, movie theaters, and restaurants.  Low risk kids can’t even play a game together outside.


The sovereign nation casino I attend checks everyone's temperature at the entrance, requires appropriate masks for all (no bandanas, for example), has shut down almost half the machines, and has reduced the number of seats at the table games.


----------



## lafalafa (Sep 28, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> We were told that Redondo School district is going to allow HS athletics to return to campus for non contact training on 10/12.  We will see if the goal posts move again, but for now we have something.


Our LA school district is allowing student athletes who have a 6th period sport back on campus for their 1 hour class but only for "conditioning" with groups of 14 or less including coach(s).  Physicals, covid-19 waivers required before reporting.

No balls or actual soccer specific training yet, each group has to be separated and there is no co mingling, mask to and from, one way in & out.  Covid-19 questions before you can pass the the gatekeeper but at least it's a start, will be interested to see participation numbers given the restrictions and transportation with working parents who may not be doing so from home.

dept of health and school monitors will be out daily to observe  & report back according to info that was given out last week.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 28, 2020)

espola said:


> The sovereign nation casino I attend checks everyone's temperature at the entrance, requires appropriate masks for all (no bandanas, for example), has shut down almost half the machines, and has reduced the number of seats at the table games.


If you are going into a casino at all, you are still a higher risk for transmission than a child who attends a scrimmage.

Indoor, long time period, high risk age group.  Even with masks and temp checks, what you are doing is riskier to other people than a weekend scrimmage.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 28, 2020)

espola said:


> The sovereign nation casino I attend checks everyone's temperature at the entrance, requires appropriate masks for all (no bandanas, for example), has shut down almost half the machines, and has reduced the number of seats at the table games.


Are we really to believe temperature checks indicate anything other than "you're finally showing symptoms after having Covid for a week"?  I see it everywhere but, again, why?  Who are we fooling?


----------



## jimlewis (Sep 28, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Our LA school district is allowing student athletes who have a 6th period sport back on campus for their 1 hour class but only for "conditioning" with groups of 14 or less including coach(s).  Physicals, covid-19 waivers required before reporting.
> 
> No balls or actual soccer specific training yet, each group has to be separated and there is no co mingling, mask to and from, one way in & out.  Covid-19 questions before you can pass the the gatekeeper but at least it's a start, will be interested to see participation numbers given the restrictions and transportation with working parents who may not be doing so from home.
> 
> dept of health and school monitors will be out daily to observe  & report back according to info that was given out last week.











						US to ship millions of tests in push to reopen K-12 schools
					

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump planned to announce Monday that the federal...




					www.timesunion.com
				




This will be an important step towards reopening schools and youth sports, ala Pac12 football.  We'll see if they are used for that purpose or not


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 28, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Our LA school district is allowing student athletes who have a 6th period sport back on campus for their 1 hour class but only for "conditioning" with groups of 14 or less including coach(s).  Physicals, covid-19 waivers required before reporting.
> 
> No balls or actual soccer specific training yet, each group has to be separated and there is no co mingling, mask to and from, one way in & out.  Covid-19 questions before you can pass the the gatekeeper but at least it's a start, will be interested to see participation numbers given the restrictions and transportation with working parents who may not be doing so from home.
> 
> dept of health and school monitors will be out daily to observe  & report back according to info that was given out last week.


OC school districts have been doing this for a few weeks now. Conditioning on campuses. PAC 12 will accelerate everything.


----------



## chiefs (Sep 28, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Our LA school district is allowing student athletes who have a 6th period sport back on campus for their 1 hour class but only for "conditioning" with groups of 14 or less including coach(s).  Physicals, covid-19 waivers required before reporting.
> 
> No balls or actual soccer specific training yet, each group has to be separated and there is no co mingling, mask to and from, one way in & out.  Covid-19 questions before you can pass the the gatekeeper but at least it's a start, will be interested to see participation numbers given the restrictions and transportation with working parents who may not be doing so from home.
> 
> dept of health and school monitors will be out daily to observe  & report back according to info that was given out last week.


What is the department of health going to observe and report back? And why are they so concerned with youth sports? It’s a mess for sure, demented really....


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 28, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Sounds like a great crowd ready to be part of the next surge in deaths...
> 
> And as a result, sports for our kids will be delayed even longer.
> 
> ...


Looks like espola is part of that crowd.  You should start lecturing him.


----------



## socalkdg (Sep 28, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Instead, we have what we have.  High risk adults can go to casinos, movie theaters, and restaurants.  Low risk kids can’t even play a game together outside.


This.   makes zero sense.   Saw Pee Wee football game this weekend, plus two softball games.   Either shut it all down, or let them play games.  Just need consistency.


----------



## Lightning Red (Sep 28, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> We were told that Redondo School district is going to allow HS athletics to return to campus for non contact training on 10/12.  We will see if the goal posts move again, but for now we have something.


Likewise for San Marcos starting today.


----------



## socalkdg (Sep 28, 2020)

espola said:


> The sovereign nation casino I attend checks everyone's temperature at the entrance, requires appropriate masks for all (no bandanas, for example), has shut down almost half the machines, and has reduced the number of seats at the table games.


Wow.   You say don't have outdoor soccer games but you go indoors for gambling.   Crazy.   Yes masks help.   No they aren't 100%.   Indoors up to 20x worse than outdoors.

*Research suggests outdoor gatherings are safer than indoor events*
According to Erin Bromage, a comparative immunologist and biology professor at the *University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth*, some research has shown that "[o]utside is definitely safer" than indoor gatherings when it comes to potentially transmitting or contracting the new coronavirus.

For example, the _New York Times_ reports that, in a study that was released preprint and hasn't yet been peer-reviewed, researchers found that the chance of coronavirus transmission occurring indoors was nearly 20 times higher when compared with outdoors.

Further, in another preprint study that hasn't yet been peer-reviewed, researchers reviewed 7,000 coronavirus cases in China and found that just one of those cases stemmed from outdoor transmission, and the transmission likely occurred during a prolonged, face-to-face conversation.

Julian Tang, a virologist at the *University of Leicester*, explained that, generally, the more open a space, the less likely the novel coronavirus can become concentrated in one area in the air and then inhaled by another person, which can result in infection.

And this.









						Do I Really Need To Wear A Mask Outdoors? Here’s The Science
					

Should you wear a face mask outdoors to help stop Coronavirus from spreading? The scientific research so far suggests that it's probably not necessary, but your decision should also depend on where you're going.




					www.forbes.com


----------



## crush (Sep 28, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> The smoke kills the virus.   Our kids just need to smoke and play at the same time.


Vape & Play!!!  I still can't believe they sell this sh*t!!!  They market flavors to da kids too.  Kids are so bored with no sports and have nothing else to do but sit at home in isolation and vape away or do something else because you can;t play sports.  Time to open up the fields.  Maybe we can lease the fields from the tribal nations out in Pala?  Oceans 11 Soccer Complex?  This would be heaven for me.  Watch dear goat (dg) play and then go play Texas Hold um.  A great day that would be


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 28, 2020)

crush said:


> Vape & Play!!!  I still can't believe they sell this sh*t!!!  They market flavors to da kids too.  Kids are so bored with no sports and have nothing else to do but sit at home in isolation and vape away or do something else because you can;t play sports.  Time to open up the fields.  Maybe we can lease the fields from the tribal nations out in Pala?  Oceans 11 Soccer Complex?  This would be heaven for me.  Watch dear goat (dg) play and then go play Texas Hold um.  A great day that would be
> 
> View attachment 9103


What are you talking about? Those kids who are into it, were vaping when all sports were wide open!


----------



## crush (Sep 28, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Looks like espola is part of that crowd.  You should start lecturing him.


My sweat adopted mother lived in Indio.  Back when poker was hot, I would go out and visit her for two days.  I went to the casino right next to hwy 111 one night and I never went back.  It was a different crowd then my home card club Oceans 11.  I'm super friendly and talk to everyone about everything at the tables.  Life of the party so to be speak.  Well, their was a few locals that didnt like all my chatting and basically told me to stfu.  You see, I slow played pocket aces.  One guy had pocket 55.  We both hit on the flop and it was on.  This guy thought I had A and K because I acted and played that way....lol  I took all his money and it was a lot.  I tricked him and he was pissed.  I got up to cash out and he followed me where you exchange your chips for hundred dollar bills.  He was so angry and told me it's rude to walk away after you take the guys money.  I told him where I come from you go home a winner and he told me to never come back again and gave me a look that made me never go back.  I kid you not!!!


----------



## crush (Sep 28, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> What are you talking about? Those kids who are into it, were vaping when all sports were wide open!


I understand that to be true as well Eagle.  If I have to wear a mask all day when i go out, that sh*t needs to be outlawed like yesterday.  Luis put that visual of what heaven will be like and that was interesting.  I've lost 19 lbs since March.  My wife warned me two years ago about some virus thing that will hit the world hard.  Popcorn lung.  I hate vape!!!


----------



## timbuck (Sep 28, 2020)

crush said:


> Vape & Play!!!  I still can't believe they sell this sh*t!!!  They market flavors to da kids too.  Kids are so bored with no sports and have nothing else to do but sit at home in isolation and vape away or do something else because you can;t play sports.  Time to open up the fields.  Maybe we can lease the fields from the tribal nations out in Pala?  Oceans 11 Soccer Complex?  This would be heaven for me.  Watch dear goat (dg) play and then go play Texas Hold um.  A great day that would be
> 
> View attachment 9103


Tribal lands?  I've got a better idea.  All of those cruise ships are sitting idle.  Let's roll out some turf and sail a few miles off the coast and play in international waters.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 28, 2020)

Am I the only one that snickers a little everytime I drive by this place?


----------



## crush (Sep 28, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Am I the only one that snickers a little everytime I drive by this place?
> 
> View attachment 9109


I was stuck looking at that for almost an hour.  You see it far away and then the traffic stops.  Everyone is out shopping too at the outlet stores and of course the river rafters are all coming back from the river.  I was going to go the other way but GPS said that was 30 minutes longer.  I made a big mistake because it lied to me big time......


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## espola (Sep 28, 2020)

dad4 said:


> If you are going into a casino at all, you are still a higher risk for transmission than a child who attends a scrimmage.
> 
> Indoor, long time period, high risk age group.  Even with masks and temp checks, what you are doing is riskier to other people than a weekend scrimmage.


Source?


----------



## espola (Sep 28, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Wow.   You say don't have outdoor soccer games but you go indoors for gambling.   Crazy.   Yes masks help.   No they aren't 100%.   Indoors up to 20x worse than outdoors.
> 
> *Research suggests outdoor gatherings are safer than indoor events*
> According to Erin Bromage, a comparative immunologist and biology professor at the *University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth*, some research has shown that "[o]utside is definitely safer" than indoor gatherings when it comes to potentially transmitting or contracting the new coronavirus.
> ...


What did I say?


----------



## messy (Sep 28, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Am I the only one that snickers a little everytime I drive by this place?
> 
> View attachment 9109


Aren’t they talking to you? Moron Go


----------



## espola (Sep 28, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Wow.   You say don't have outdoor soccer games but you go indoors for gambling.   Crazy.   Yes masks help.   No they aren't 100%.   Indoors up to 20x worse than outdoors.
> 
> *Research suggests outdoor gatherings are safer than indoor events*
> According to Erin Bromage, a comparative immunologist and biology professor at the *University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth*, some research has shown that "[o]utside is definitely safer" than indoor gatherings when it comes to potentially transmitting or contracting the new coronavirus.
> ...


Your quote stopped before it got to this --

"But that doesn't mean that outdoor gatherings are without risk, experts say."


----------



## sdb (Sep 28, 2020)

There is risk in everything we do. Due to a lack of leadership and definitive policy, what has happened is that we have all been forced to make individual decisions about how much risk we are willing to each take in our daily lives based on our own interpretation of the data. For me, I think that there is risk outdoors but it is significantly less that indoors. For me, I would assess the risk of being at an outdoor soccer game socially distanced as much less than being inside in a casino no matter what protocols are deployed there.


----------



## watfly (Sep 28, 2020)

espola said:


> Source?


Dad4


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 28, 2020)

messy said:


> Aren’t they talking to you? Moron Go


Don't embarrass yourself showing up late to the joke.


----------



## espola (Sep 28, 2020)

sdb said:


> There is risk in everything we do. Due to a lack of leadership and definitive policy, what has happened is that we have all been forced to make individual decisions about how much risk we are willing to each take in our daily lives based on our own interpretation of the data. For me, I think that there is risk outdoors but it is significantly less that indoors. For me, I would assess the risk of being at an outdoor soccer game socially distanced as much less than being inside in a casino no matter what protocols are deployed there.


I was responding to the comment that the sovereign nations can make up their own rules.


----------



## Chalklines (Sep 28, 2020)

sdb said:


> There is risk in everything we do. Due to a lack of leadership and definitive policy, what has happened is that we have all been forced to make individual decisions about how much risk we are willing to each take in our daily lives based on our own interpretation of the data. For me, I think that there is risk outdoors but it is significantly less that indoors. For me, I would assess the risk of being at an outdoor soccer game socially distanced as much less than being inside in a casino no matter what protocols are deployed there.


Remember the public restroom scare of the late 80's early 90's. They thought you could get AIDS from a toilet seat. No one had an away game for years.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 28, 2020)

OpenCalNOW
					






					www.opencalnow.com


----------



## dad4 (Sep 28, 2020)

espola said:


> Source?


You need a source to prove that prolonged indoor gatherings of people over 60 are a bad idea right now?

What, have you been living under a rock?

Indoor?  Socaldg just gave you the citation that indoor is 20x as dangerous as outdoor.

Elderly?  Hound repeatedly gives us the CDC numbers that people over 70 are orders of magnitude more likely to die of covid than young people.  

Duration?  Here is a cdc paper that explains that longer exposure times are worse than shorter exposure times.



			https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjcxqXx3YzsAhXjm-AKHTjwCvMQFjAAegQIBRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fphp%2Fpublic-health-recommendations.html&usg=AOvVaw0WGabMIPufjKdxXHT_v-vD
		


You like casinos so you don’t like the answer, but there is no way going to a casino is at all consistent with trying to limit the spread of coronavirus.

Enjoy your next trip to the Chumash Coronavirus Center, but know it for what it is.


----------



## espola (Sep 28, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You need a source to prove that prolonged indoor gatherings of people over 60 are a bad idea right now?
> 
> What, have you been living under a rock?
> 
> ...


I asked for a source for this -- "If you are going into a casino at all, you are still a higher risk for transmission than a child who attends a scrimmage."
You responded with a lot of handwaving.

First, it's Sycuan.  Second, I don't like casinos, necessarily - I only play with the money my wife gives me from her bingo nights - she gives me her left-over cashout vouchers.  Also, it's the closest air-conditioned place I can go to where I can sit quietly for an hour or two.  I play in the non-smoking room and if anyone starts coughing near me I cash out and go home. 

I play 5c video draw poker, and I play 10 games at a time, so it is essentially 50c a bet.  The draw poker games at least allow me to have some decision-making in the game, unlike the slot machine and keno players who just keep on pushing those buttons (but they are only playing 1c per bet, so there's that).   The Sycuan machines pay 5x for a flush and 8x for a full house, which are pretty good returns for a casino (6x and 9x are supposed to be pretty close to even).  Some of their newer machines allow a double-or-nothing high/low card bet after any winning poker hand - where else are you going to find an even bet in a casino?


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 28, 2020)

espola said:


> I asked for a source for this -- "If you are going into a casino at all, you are still a higher risk for transmission than a child who attends a scrimmage."
> You responded with a lot of handwaving.
> 
> First, it's Sycuan.  Second, I don't like casinos, necessarily - I only play with the money my wife gives me from her bingo nights - she gives me her left-over cashout vouchers.  Also, it's the closest air-conditioned place I can go to where I can sit quietly for an hour or two.  I play in the non-smoking room and if anyone starts coughing near me I cash out and go home.
> ...


Look COVID nazis! Espola is spreading the virus!  Tell him he needs to "Stay Home, Stay Safe"  or else hes selfishly killing people. lol.


----------



## crush (Sep 28, 2020)

espola said:


> I asked for a source for this -- "If you are going into a casino at all, you are still a higher risk for transmission than a child who attends a scrimmage."
> You responded with a lot of handwaving.
> 
> First, it's Sycuan.  Second, I don't like casinos, necessarily - I only play with the money my wife gives me from her bingo nights - she gives me her left-over cashout vouchers.  Also, it's the closest air-conditioned place I can go to where I can sit quietly for an hour or two.  I play in the non-smoking room and if anyone starts coughing near me I cash out and go home.
> ...


I have this idea for all of us.  After Nov 3rd, let's all hook up at Dom's crib for a poker night.  Best mask contest, best hand, best fake move and so many other prizes.  What's it like playing against a machine?  I always give my family my winnings.  We can play "guess who" and no one has to share who their avatar is.  We can have pizza and raise money for soccer scholarships to the club of your choice.  Travel, uniform, teams fees and $200 a month to spend on soccer related things.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 28, 2020)

We should just spa


crush said:


> I have this idea for all of us.  After Nov 3rd, let's all hook up at Dom's crib for a poker night.  Best mask contest, best hand, best fake move and so many other prizes.  What's it like playing against a machine?  I always give my family my winnings.  We can play "guess who" and no one has to share who their avatar is.  We can have pizza and raise money for soccer scholarships to the club of your choice.  Travel, uniform, teams fees and $200 a month to spend on soccer related things.


Given that there's no tournaments anytime soon in California, you guys will have plenty of soccer dollars available for your poker game. LOL


----------



## notintheface (Sep 28, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> OpenCalNOW
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great, another petition started by an anonymous group, I'm sure this one is definitely on the up and up.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 28, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Great, another petition started by an anonymous group, I'm sure this one is definitely on the up and up.


Being as the mayors of San Diego, Riverside and Orange County have been promoting it on live TV, it likely has more merit than the cynical comments of an anonymous poster in a soccer forum!


----------



## Dargle (Sep 28, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Great, another petition started by an anonymous group, I'm sure this one is definitely on the up and up.


I don't think it has any more chance than other petitions, but it is unique in that it is a group led by a bunch of primarily local politicians in San Diego, Orange County, and Riverside.  Would be more impactful if they were a bipartisan group though. It seems to be mostly Republicans or Libertarians.

https://www.kusi.com/supervisor-desmond-and-a-group-of-elected-officials-unite-to-urge-safe-reopening-of-california/


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 28, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Are we really to believe temperature checks indicate anything other than "you're finally showing symptoms after having Covid for a week"?  I see it everywhere but, again, why?  Who are we fooling?


It is called Safety Theater. Makes some people feel like they are doing something or makes them feel safe.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 28, 2020)

Dargle said:


> I don't think it has any more chance than other petitions, but it is unique in that it is a group led by a bunch of primarily local politicians in San Diego, Orange County, and Riverside.  Would be more impactful if they were a bipartisan group though. It seems to be mostly Republicans or Libertarians.
> 
> https://www.kusi.com/supervisor-desmond-and-a-group-of-elected-officials-unite-to-urge-safe-reopening-of-california/


Is there a single democrat wanting the economy to reopen before November 3rd?  I hope so... maybe one here can confirm that.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 28, 2020)

Florida schools reopened en masse, but a surge in coronavirus didn't follow, a USA TODAY analysis finds
					

A USA TODAY analysis shows the state’s positive case count among kids ages 5 to 17 declined through late September after a peak in July.



					www.usatoday.com


----------



## Luis Andres (Sep 28, 2020)

espola said:


> I asked for a source for this -- "If you are going into a casino at all, you are still a higher risk for transmission than a child who attends a scrimmage."
> You responded with a lot of handwaving.
> 
> First, it's Sycuan.  Second, I don't like casinos, necessarily - I only play with the money my wife gives me from her bingo nights - she gives me her left-over cashout vouchers.  Also, it's the closest air-conditioned place I can go to where I can sit quietly for an hour or two.  I play in the non-smoking room and if anyone starts coughing near me I cash out and go home.
> ...


common sense...that casinos are way more dangerous than kids playing outdoor soccer. All I saw there were old overweight folks smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol. This is the so called population At risk. 65+ overweight with tons of heath conditions. They are the ones that end up in hospitals with ventilators and die of covid.  Not the young healthy kids and families that go to soccer tournaments. I can’t believe you buy all the BS these fake media scientists like Fauci say. It’s beyond the point of comprehension, what’s currently happening.


----------



## Calisoccer11 (Sep 28, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> common sense...that casinos are way more dangerous than kids playing outdoor soccer. All I saw there were old overweight folks smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol. This is the so called population At risk. 65+ overweight with tons of heath conditions. They are the ones that end up in hospitals with ventilators and die of covid.  Not the young healthy kids and families that go to soccer tournaments. I can’t believe you buy all the BS these fake media scientists like Fauci say. It’s beyond the point of comprehension, what’s currently happening.


LMAO!  Dr. Fauci is the top infectious disease expert who has advised the last 6 presidents.  But OK, don't listen to him but please don't pretend like he doesn't know his shit.  He is not a hack like Dr. Atlas who says whatever fits into the president's narrative.  Puhleeze - we all want our kids to get back to soccer but to discredit someone like Dr. Fauci--you have to do better than that dude.


----------



## espola (Sep 28, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> common sense.. these fake media scientists like Fauci...


Funny


----------



## Luis Andres (Sep 28, 2020)

Calisoccer11 said:


> LMAO!  Dr. Fauci is the top infectious disease expert who has advised the last 6 presidents.  But OK, don't listen to him but please don't pretend like he doesn't know his shit.  He is not a hack like Dr. Atlas who says whatever fits into the president's narrative.  Puhleeze - we all want our kids to get back to soccer but to discredit someone like Dr. Fauci--you have to do better than that dude.


No I will never listen to a dude who’s back and forth with his policies and who’s end goal is to sell vaccines. He’s not a Doctor but a crook. Con artist


----------



## crush (Sep 28, 2020)




----------



## espola (Sep 28, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> No I will never listen to a dude who’s back and forth with his policies and who’s end goal is to sell vaccines. He’s not a Doctor but a crook. Con artist


Coocoo


----------



## crush (Sep 28, 2020)

Everyone needs a Batman in their life


----------



## Calisoccer11 (Sep 28, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> No I will never listen to a dude who’s back and forth with his policies and who’s end goal is to sell vaccines. He’s not a Doctor but a crook. Con artist


You have mistaken with Trump -lmao


----------



## Luis Andres (Sep 28, 2020)

espola said:


> Coocoo


wear your masks and social distance right ? What a joke


----------



## Giesbock (Sep 28, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> common sense...that casinos are way more dangerous than kids playing outdoor soccer. All I saw there were old overweight folks smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol. This is the so called population At risk. 65+ overweight with tons of heath conditions. They are the ones that end up in hospitals with ventilators and die of covid.  Not the young healthy kids and families that go to soccer tournaments. I can’t believe you buy all the BS these fake media scientists like Fauci say. It’s beyond the point of comprehension, what’s currently happening.


Why can’t you understand that that is the population that dies, spikes death figures, leads to further shut down of economy, society and youth sports all swept up in it.

theres no point making a distinction between at high risk or low risk. The two groups are co-mingles when they come home under the same roof.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Sep 28, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> wear your masks and social distance right ? What a joke
> 
> View attachment 9114


Nonsense


----------



## Anon9 (Sep 28, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Why can’t you understand that that is the population that dies, spikes death figures, leads to further shut down of economy, society and youth sports all swept up in it.
> 
> theres no point making a distinction between at high risk or low risk. The two groups are co-mingles when they come home under the same roof.


Can’t you understand that it’s not about the numbers? Or hospitalizations? No matter what we do, we will still be shutdown. At least until Nov 4, if yiu believe the LAUSD.


----------



## Luis Andres (Sep 28, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Why can’t you understand that that is the population that dies, spikes death figures, leads to further shut down of economy, society and youth sports all swept up in it.
> 
> theres no point making a distinction between at high risk or low risk. The two groups are co-mingles when they come home under the same roof.


no it’s California. That’s the problem. Gavin Newsom. Arizona, Texas and Florida are doing just fine. Gavin Newsom is a rat.


----------



## notintheface (Sep 28, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> no it’s California. That’s the problem. Gavin Newsom. Arizona, Texas and Florida are doing just fine. Gavin Newsom is a rat.


Don't let the door hit you.


----------



## Anon9 (Sep 28, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Don't let the door hit you.


Just like all you fake ass people that say “if Trump wins I’m leaving the US. GTFO and never come back cause he’s winning again, and by a landslide!


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 29, 2020)

Orange County moves a tier down today.   Time to let the kids play.  Is CSL still happening on Oct 17?


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 29, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Orange County moves a tier down today.   Time to let the kids play.  Is CSL still happening on Oct 17?


That's not what I heard on the news this morning


----------



## crush (Sep 29, 2020)

Coronavirus: 133 new cases, no new deaths in Orange County on Sept. 28.  Today, *Orange County is now Orange*.  Also, who is participating in the "Zoom Out" protest this week?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 29, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Nonsense
> View attachment 9115View attachment 9116


Is that the first, confirmed photo of EOTL?  The pot belly and skinny jeans are a dead giveaway.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 29, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> That's not what I heard on the news this morning


I just saw that article about not moving.  You will see a significant push back if the state doesnt allow OC to move tiers.  All the stats required are there.  Granted we have seen an uptick in covid cases over the past 5 days but the 7-day stats are still good enough for the next tier. 






						ArcGIS Dashboards
					

ArcGIS Dashboards




					ochca.maps.arcgis.com


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 29, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I just saw that article about not moving.  You will see a significant push back if the state doesnt allow OC to move tiers.  All the stats required are there.  Granted we have seen an uptick in covid cases over the past 5 days but the 7-day stats are still good enough for the next tier.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the way they talking about it.....if we move to Orange now and something happens, we can't move back to Orange for another 3 weeks. I rather stay another week in Red based on this logic.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 29, 2020)

If I understand it right, 8-14 days ago OC looks like orange.  But 1-5 days ago look like red.

In other words, you might qualify for orange today, but you’d have to move back to red within a week.  What’s the point?   Opening up for four days before you have to close again?  Might as well wait until it looks like you can move to orange and stay there.


----------



## crush (Sep 29, 2020)

dad4 said:


> If I understand it right, 8-14 days ago OC looks like orange.  But 1-5 days ago look like red.
> 
> In other words, you might qualify for orange today, but you’d have to move back to red within a week.  What’s the point?   Opening up for four days before you have to close again?  Might as well wait until it looks like you can move to orange and stay there.


I agree.  Stop the uncertainty and confusion for the teens and young kids.  I would shut it all down until Nov 4th.  Wake up and see what the next plan is.  Be prepared is all I can say.  Stay thirsty my friend


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 29, 2020)

Playgrounds are open.  No youth sports yet. SMH 









						Newsom Signs Order Allowing Playgrounds To Reopen
					

Closed since March because of coronavirus, numerous lawmakers signed a letter calling on the governor to reopen playgrounds.




					news.yahoo.com


----------



## crush (Sep 29, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Playgrounds are open.  No youth sports yet. SMH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh joy........


----------



## Chalklines (Sep 29, 2020)

crush said:


> Oh joy........


Yea... Was at the park Friday. Saw a mother and boyfriend working on a 3rd child off to the side on their picnic blanket while their 2 kids constantly coughed/sneezed and wiped their noses on each other and all over the parks equipment for a solid 40 mins.


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 29, 2020)

crush said:


> I agree.  Stop the uncertainty and confusion for the teens and young kids.  I would shut it all down until Nov 4th.  Wake up and see what the next plan is.  Be prepared is all I can say.  Stay thirsty my friend


you are Crush - not Dos Equis


----------



## dad4 (Sep 29, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Playgrounds are open.  No youth sports yet. SMH
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At least the state is paying some attention to people under 20 for once.  

Glad the 5 year olds get their swings and slides back.  Good for them.


----------



## JumboJack (Sep 29, 2020)

I’ll let you guys in on a little secret. There are quite a few private schools in LA county that have been open for over a month (in class) without a peep from the Health Dept. And also with our any outbreaks. And the HD is well aware they are open.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Sep 29, 2020)

dad4 said:


> *If I understand it right, 8-14 days ago OC looks like orange.  But 1-5 days ago look like red.*


Which charts are you looking at?  I don't see any data that suggests OC was in red 1-5 days ago.

Being in orange vs red is almost irrelevant as far as soccer is concerned.  I noticed our state government finally added "youth sports" to the list of activities/businesses to the blueprint for re-opening.  Unfortunately, no matter what tier you're in, it refers to the same August 3 guidelines that prohibits contact.









						Current safety measures
					

Steps you can take to protect yourself from COVID-19 and prevent its spread.




					covid19.ca.gov
				




I'm fine with playground getting higher priority than soccer, but are State employees not capable of multi-tasking to logically address other outdoor activities at the same time?


----------



## crush (Sep 29, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> you are Crush - not Dos Equis


Fair enough.


----------



## socalkdg (Sep 29, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> I'm fine with playground getting higher priority than soccer, but are State employees not capable of multi-tasking to logically address other outdoor activities at the same time?


Agree about multitasking.   Is there anyone here that believes playgrounds are safer than a soccer field?


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 29, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Agree about multitasking.   Is there anyone here that believes playgrounds are safer than a soccer field?


Playground is the definition of a Cesspool of germs.


----------



## watfly (Sep 29, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Which charts are you looking at?  I don't see any data that suggests OC was in red 1-5 days ago.
> 
> Being in orange vs red is almost irrelevant as far as soccer is concerned.  I noticed our state government finally added "youth sports" to the list of activities/businesses to the blueprint for re-opening.  Unfortunately, no matter what tier you're in, it refers to the same August 3 guidelines that prohibits contact.
> 
> ...


Youth sports still aren't reflected on what's allowed or not on the activity/tier framework. https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/CDPH Document Library/COVID-19/Dimmer-Framework-September_2020.pdf

I guess this could be a good thing (its not boxed into a strict framework), or a bad thing (youth sports aren't even being considered).  To me if youth sports isn't "boxed in" it represents a chance for some strong lobbying efforts by the leadership of youth sports organizations.  It seems to me I've seen two approaches by sports organizations: 1) F$%# it we're going to do what we want until someone tells us otherwise... i.e. ask for forgiveness instead of permission, or 2) Be good little sheeple and do nothing and hope that someone in Sacto takes up the interest of youth sports...which appears to be the youth soccer organizations' approach.


----------



## tjinaz (Sep 29, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Playground is the definition of a Cesspool of germs.


Second only to the ball pit at Chuck E Cheese on the petri dish scale.


----------



## JumboJack (Sep 29, 2020)

tjinaz said:


> Second only to the ball pit at Chuck E Cheese on the petri dish scale.


----------



## messy (Sep 29, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Can’t you understand that it’s not about the numbers? Or hospitalizations? No matter what we do, we will still be shutdown. At least until Nov 4, if yiu believe the LAUSD.


It's 100% about the numbers and the hospitalizations.


----------



## happy9 (Sep 29, 2020)

crush said:


> I agree.  Stop the uncertainty and confusion for the teens and young kids.  I would shut it all down until Nov 4th.  Wake up and see what the next plan is.  Be prepared is all I can say.  Stay thirsty my friend


It's just crazy seeing the discussion about colors, moving back and forth between tiers, not being able to move back if you moved because when you moved then digressed then are being punished for it and not allowed move back... It's nuts....  Talk about minutia mind control of the educated masses.  I guess now the virus has managed to understand time and space and will know exactly how to behave ,when to behave and where to behave.  

I know I'm sayin this as an outsider.  I wonder how many CV19 virus strands have  managed to make their way back to CA from all of the AZ friendlies.  And vice versa, how many strands have left CA and come here.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Sep 29, 2020)

watfly said:


> I guess this could be a good thing (its not boxed into a strict framework), or a bad thing (youth sports aren't even being considered).  To me if youth sports isn't "boxed in" it represents a chance for some strong lobbying efforts by the leadership of youth sports organizations.  It seems to me I've seen two approaches by sports organizations: 1) F$%# it we're going to do what we want until someone tells us otherwise... i.e. ask for forgiveness instead of permission, or 2) Be good little sheeple and do nothing and hope that someone in Sacto takes up the interest of youth sports...which appears to be the youth soccer organizations' approach.


#1 seems to be the right approach for clubs, but whoever owns the fields in your area needs to play ball as well.  After reading @JumboJack's earlier post on LA private schools, this is what I found online:








						L.A. schools are closed — but there are loopholes for those with money
					

K-12 schools in Los Angeles are not allowed to be open at the moment. Yet many schools have reopened anyway, either by outsourcing their facilities to established providers like the Y, or by rebranding as day camps, which are license-exempt and virtually unregulated in California.




					www.latimes.com
				




One paragraph jumps out at me:
_“There have been site visits to some of these schools to ensure that they are implementing the [county’s coronavirus] protocol with proper fidelity and are in compliance,” L.A. County Public Health Department spokeswoman Natalie Jimenez wrote in an email. _*“Beyond assuring compliance with our orders, Public Health does not have enforcement authority over whether a private school chooses to operate as a camp.”*


----------



## crush (Sep 29, 2020)

happy9 said:


> It's just crazy seeing the discussion about colors, moving back and forth between tiers, not being able to move back if you moved because when you moved then digressed then are being punished for it and not allowed move back... It's nuts....  Talk about minutia mind control of the educated masses.  I guess now the virus has managed to understand time and space and will know exactly how to behave ,when to behave and where to behave.
> 
> I know I'm sayin this as an outsider.  I wonder how many CV19 virus strands have  managed to make their way back to CA from all of the AZ friendlies.  And vice versa, how many strands have left CA and come here.


shhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 29, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> Grams will also struggle and potentially die from a bad bout of the flu.  does that mean she never goes out ever again?


Grams can also get a high dose flu vaccine for seniors and NOT die from the flu if she decides to do that.  There is no vaccine yet for covid.  Hopefully we will have an effective vaccine by spring and good therapeutics.


----------



## tjinaz (Sep 29, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Grams can also get a high dose flu vaccine for seniors and NOT die from the flu if she decides to do that.  There is no vaccine yet for covid.  Hopefully we will have an effective vaccine by spring and good therapeutics.


I think you overestimate the effectiveness of the flu vaccine.  It is only effective between 40-60% of the time.  Varies by year.  Clearly not a silver bullet.  Gram may just as well flip a coin.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 29, 2020)

[


----------



## dad4 (Sep 29, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Which charts are you looking at?  I don't see any data that suggests OC was in red 1-5 days ago.


Nyt 7 day average has no lag.   For the last 7 days, it puts OC at 44 per 100k per week.  6.3 per 100k per day.  (Red, because between 4 and 7)

The state window has a 7 day lag.   So if NYT shows a bump now that usually means the state window shows a bump next week.


----------



## Speed (Sep 29, 2020)

watfly said:


> Youth sports still aren't reflected on what's allowed or not on the activity/tier framework. https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/CDPH Document Library/COVID-19/Dimmer-Framework-September_2020.pdf
> 
> I guess this could be a good thing (its not boxed into a strict framework), or a bad thing (youth sports aren't even being considered).  To me if youth sports isn't "boxed in" it represents a chance for some strong lobbying efforts by the leadership of youth sports organizations.  It seems to me I've seen two approaches by sports organizations: 1) F$%# it we're going to do what we want until someone tells us otherwise... i.e. ask for forgiveness instead of permission, or 2) Be good little sheeple and do nothing and hope that someone in Sacto takes up the interest of youth sports...which appears to be the youth soccer organizations' approach.


always go with #1


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 29, 2020)

messy said:


> It's 100% about the numbers and the hospitalizations.


Show me the hospitalization numbers that justify it.


----------



## chiefs (Sep 29, 2020)

watfly said:


> Youth sports still aren't reflected on what's allowed or not on the activity/tier framework. https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/CDPH Document Library/COVID-19/Dimmer-Framework-September_2020.pdf
> 
> I guess this could be a good thing (its not boxed into a strict framework), or a bad thing (youth sports aren't even being considered).  To me if youth sports isn't "boxed in" it represents a chance for some strong lobbying efforts by the leadership of youth sports organizations.  It seems to me I've seen two approaches by sports organizations: 1) F$%# it we're going to do what we want until someone tells us otherwise... i.e. ask for forgiveness instead of permission, or 2) Be good little sheeple and do nothing and hope that someone in Sacto takes up the interest of youth sports...which appears to be the youth soccer organizations' approach.


Everyone please understand, with Gavin’s new criteria, even with a vaccine, to get to the top/best level it is nearly impossible. And even if it’s at the best level doesn’t mean they will allow outdoor sports. The obvious answer is #1, basketball, softball, baseball have all but ignored any restrictions.  Btw SCSDL won’t be happening this year.  Parents beware.


----------



## Speed (Sep 29, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Everyone please understand, with Gavin’s new criteria, even with a vaccine, to get to the top/best level it is nearly impossible. And even if it’s at the best level doesn’t mean they will allow outdoor sports. The obvious answer is #1, basketball, softball, baseball have all but ignored any restrictions.  Btw SCSDL won’t be happening this year.  Parents beware.


how do you know SCDSL isn't happening? doesn't surprise me but curious your source?


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 29, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Everyone please understand, with Gavin’s new criteria, even with a vaccine, to get to the top/best level it is nearly impossible. And even if it’s at the best level doesn’t mean they will allow outdoor sports. The obvious answer is #1, basketball, softball, baseball have all but ignored any restrictions.  Btw SCSDL won’t be happening this year.  Parents beware.


In a modern democratic society we are living, it's only a matter of time now before no one will follow any restrictions.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 29, 2020)

There's a concerted effort underway by a coalition of small school districts, private schools, parochial schools (including the LA archdioses) and charter schools to pressure the LA County Board of Supervisors to grant waivers to at least K-3rd grade elementary school.  If you believe kids should be prioritized in the reopening process and live in LA County, even if you don't have a kid in elementary school (I don't), please write to your supervisor today as they'll be making a decision this coming week.


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 29, 2020)

Speed said:


> how do you know SCDSL isn't happening? doesn't surprise me but curious your source?


Michelle retired.


----------



## mlx (Sep 29, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Michelle retired.


Noooo!!!! really? No more long-ass emails chastising parents in huge fonts and colors and stuff.


----------



## happy9 (Sep 29, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> In a modern democratic society we are living, it's only a matter of time now before no one will follow any restrictions.


I'm sure it's happening every day in CA and has likely been happening for some time.  Reasonable citizens will willingly participate, endorse, abide by reasonable measures put into place by a government they elected.  When it becomes apparent that their is no effort by their government be reasonable, that's when the proverbial shit will hit the fan. Or not - maybe the culture is so deeply rooted that the lemming syndrome will prevail.

At least keep coming out to AZ to play futbol.  We certainly appreciate it!  And I mean that.


----------



## lafalafa (Sep 29, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> There's a concerted effort underway by a coalition of small school districts, private schools, parochial schools (including the LA archdioses) and charter schools to pressure the LA County Board of Supervisors to grant waivers to at least K-3rd grade elementary school.  If you believe kids should be prioritized in the reopening process and live in LA County, even if you don't have a kid in elementary school (I don't), please write to your supervisor today as they'll be making a decision this coming week.


Good for the kids to get back. Yes been in contact with our supervisor.

As far as fields LAUSD correspondent they will not be renting out any of there fields until further notice as of last Friday.



Eagle33 said:


> Michelle retired.


Took the loans and called it a day?  With surf striking out now what seven times in a row wonder if she will continue with that also?


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Sep 29, 2020)

happy9 said:


> At least keep coming out to AZ to play futbol.  We certainly appreciate it!  And I mean that.


The word on the street is that Nevada will open up youth sports shortly.  Appreciate you guys' hospitality, but 3.5hr drive is always better than a 7hr drive. 








						TODAY AT 4 P.M.: Gov. Sisolak expected to lift restrictions on youth sports, gatherings
					

Governor Steve Sisolak is expected to ease some restrictions on gatherings and youth sports in Nevada during a Tuesday afternoon press conference in Las Vegas. Last week, the governor's office said the updates will be issues via an emergency directive and would include adjustments to the current...




					mynews4.com


----------



## watfly (Sep 29, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> In a modern democratic society we are living, it's only a matter of time now before no one will follow any restrictions.


Seems like we're already there, at least for anyone that has children.   I think the vast majority are willing to wear masks indoors and maintain distance where reasonable and possible.  Anything else gets the middle finger.


----------



## happy9 (Sep 29, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> The word on the street is that Nevada will open up youth sports shortly.  Appreciate you guys' hospitality, but 3.5hr drive is always better than a 7hr drive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh come on - we have Casinos also, kinda , just not as nice.

But good on them!


----------



## TOSDCI (Sep 29, 2020)

happy9 said:


> It's just crazy seeing the discussion about colors, moving back and forth between tiers, not being able to move back if you moved because when you moved then digressed then are being punished for it and not allowed move back... It's nuts....  Talk about minutia mind control of the educated masses.  I guess now the virus has managed to understand time and space and will know exactly how to behave ,when to behave and where to behave.
> 
> I know I'm sayin this as an outsider.  I wonder how many CV19 virus strands have  managed to make their way back to CA from all of the AZ friendlies.  And vice versa, how many strands have left CA and come here.


My family has been there on two different weekends.  I have not heard of any Covid cases as a result of AZ scrimmages at this point.  I can't express how happy I was to see my kids playing the game they love.  Could have been just a few degrees cooler, however.


----------



## happy9 (Sep 29, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> My family has been there on two different weekends.  I have not heard of any Covid cases as a result of AZ scrimmages at this point.  I can't express how happy I was to see my kids playing the game they love.  *Could have been just a few degrees cooler, however.*


Yep, can't wait for it to be below 100, at least for a few hours during the day.  It's been a hot summer for sure.


----------



## ToonArmy (Sep 29, 2020)

Would rather play league games in Vegas than Pheonix personally mostly because of the drive. And October is usually nice weather until Halloween then it gets cold starting that night


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Sep 29, 2020)

ToonArmy said:


> Would rather play league games in Vegas than Pheonix personally mostly because of the drive. And October is usually nice weather until Halloween then it gets cold starting that night




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311084684667842560
No go from Nevada today.  Read the replies.  They are almost an exact replica of this forum.

Arizona, we still love you............for now.


----------



## chiefs (Sep 29, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311084684667842560
> No go from Nevada today.  Read the replies.  They are almost an exact replica of this forum.
> 
> Arizona, we still love you............for now.


Wow another blue state governor; all politics. Go Red state Arizona.


----------



## ToonArmy (Sep 29, 2020)

His big anticipated update on youth sports in Nevada is that there will be another update sometime later


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 29, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Wow another blue state governor; all politics. Go Red state Arizona.


Isn't Sisolak the dipshit that opened casinos and then cried about the President having a convention in his state?


----------



## Soccer Bum 06 (Sep 29, 2020)

happy9 said:


> It's just crazy seeing the discussion about colors, moving back and forth between tiers, not being able to move back if you moved because when you moved then digressed then are being punished for it and not allowed move back... It's nuts....  Talk about minutia mind control of the educated masses.  I guess now the virus has managed to understand time and space and will know exactly how to behave ,when to behave and where to behave.
> 
> I know I'm sayin this as an outsider.  I wonder how many CV19 virus strands have  managed to make their way back to CA from all of the AZ friendlies.  And vice versa, how many strands have left CA and come here.


I agree. Trying to make logic out of an illogical system is futile and a waste of time. No need to discuss this tier or that tier, just call it what it is BS.


----------



## justneededaname (Sep 29, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Arizona, we still love you............for now.


My DDs team is going to the Arsenal tournament. Her club has 14 teams heading out to PHX. Then her team is going back in November for Rush Cup. I don't know the count, but I know there are more teams coming for that as well.


----------



## Chalklines (Sep 29, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Grams can also get a high dose flu vaccine for seniors and NOT die from the flu if she decides to do that.  There is no vaccine yet for covid.  Hopefully we will have an effective vaccine by spring and good therapeutics.


But what about the sheep who get a flu shot and wake up with a low grade fever the next day, freak out and get tested for covid. This circle of uncertainty will never end!


----------



## chiefs (Sep 29, 2020)

Disney just laid off 28000 people. I guess Gavin could care less. All that discussion didn’t work.  You think Gavin actually cares about youth soccer? 









						Disney to lay off 28,000 employees as coronavirus slams its theme park business
					

Prolonged closures of Disney's California theme parks and limited attendance at its open parks have led the company to lay off 28,000 employees across its parks, experiences and consumer products segment.




					www.cnbc.com


----------



## happy9 (Sep 29, 2020)

justneededaname said:


> My DDs team is going to the Arsenal tournament. Her club has 14 teams heading out to PHX. Then her team is going back in November for Rush Cup. I don't know the count, but I know there are more teams coming for that as well.


Nice - November weather is basically perfect.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 29, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> But what about the sheep who get a flu shot and wake up with a low grade fever the next day, freak out and get tested for covid. This circle of uncertainty will never end!


"Sheep" now means anyone who follows the advice of their doctor?

Got it.  Do you have an epithet those who ignore medical advice?  Petri dishes?   "Vector" has a nice ring to it.


----------



## MacDre (Sep 29, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Do you have an epithet those who ignore medical advice?


How about Jackass?


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 29, 2020)

dad4 said:


> "Sheep" now means anyone who follows the advice of their doctor?
> 
> Got it.  Do you have an epithet those who ignore medical advice?  Petri dishes?   "Vector" has a nice ring to it.


Not that I am going to disagree with anyone on Covid because everyone is in the know, but do you know anything about soccer at all? And, I mean being able to discuss teams in your area, nationally, or international. Bring up specific players, coaches, and situations?


----------



## dad4 (Sep 30, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Not that I am going to disagree with anyone on Covid because everyone is in the know, but do you know anything about soccer at all? And, I mean being able to discuss teams in your area, nationally, or international. Bring up specific players, coaches, situations, and players?





LASTMAN14 said:


> Not that I am going to disagree with anyone on Covid because everyone is in the know, but do you know anything about soccer at all? And, I mean being able to discuss teams in your area, nationally, or international. Bring up specific players, coaches, situations, and players?


My kid hasn't had a real game since March.  Not much to discuss.

Besides, EJ and Luis convinced me that talking about my own kid is a bad idea.  

Near me, I like Sacto Blues, San Juan, and MVLA.  PSV is an injury factory.  Mustangs are decent but play too direct for my taste.  

But, when you openly encourage the spread of disease, such as chalklines' anti-vaccination slur, expect people to object.


----------



## crush (Sep 30, 2020)

dad4 said:


> My kid hasn't had a real game since March.  Not much to discuss.
> 
> Besides, EJ and Luis convinced me that talking about my own kid is a bad idea.
> 
> ...


I'm not well this morning Dad.  Ran out of meds last night and not sure how the rest of the day will go for me.  It's hot like AZ today so I will go to my secret spot and chill and look at nature.  Oh boy, this is insane.  I found my old mask btw and will wear it through Nov 3rd.  I like this one


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 30, 2020)

crush said:


> I'm not well this morning Dad.  Ran out of meds last night and not sure how the rest of the day will go for me.  It's hot like AZ today so I will go to my secret spot and chill and look at nature.  Oh boy, this is insane.  I found my old mask btw and will wear it through Nov 3rd.  I like this one
> 
> View attachment 9136


I found a face cover for you


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 30, 2020)

dad4 said:


> My kid hasn't had a real game since March.  Not much to discuss.
> 
> Besides, EJ and Luis convinced me that talking about my own kid is a bad idea.
> 
> ...


What are you hearing about the explosion of SJ Quakes DA?  Where did all those players land?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 30, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I found a face cover for you


----------



## dad4 (Sep 30, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> What are you hearing about the explosion of SJ Quakes DA?  Where did all those players land?


I think mostly they followed Deza when he founded BASC.


----------



## Lightning Red (Sep 30, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> What are you hearing about the explosion of SJ Quakes DA?  Where did all those players land?


The vaunted DA National Champion '04 Quakes team got their comeuppance when they traveled to So Cal last November.  Losses in one weekend to both SD Surf & LAGSD/City SC.


----------



## crush (Sep 30, 2020)

Lightning Red said:


> The vaunted DA National Champion '04 Quakes team got their comeuppance when they traveled to So Cal last November.  Losses in one weekend to both SD Surf & LAGSD/City SC.


Not sure what team showed up but the one sent to play the Blues last year was not the top top players.  They rested.  Awesome job btw regardless and way to represent socal.  They have some of the best players in the country and most committed early.  Good for them.


----------



## gotothebushes (Sep 30, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> What are you hearing about the explosion of SJ Quakes DA?  Where did all those players land?


There still together at https://www.fcbayarea.com


----------



## youthsportsugghhh (Sep 30, 2020)

crush said:


> Not sure what team showed up but the one sent to play the Blues last year was not the top top players.  They rested.  Awesome job btw regardless and way to represent socal.  They have some of the best players in the country and most committed early.  Good for them.


Yeah -- not sure it was a comeuppance playing without 3 regulars and their normal starting goalie, but any time that club lost I was not sad.


----------



## youthsportsugghhh (Sep 30, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> There still together at https://www.fcbayarea.com


Yeah most of the 04's stayed with a couple of exceptions and the same with the 06's. Several 03's left from my understanding and not really sure about the 05's.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 30, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> There still together at https://www.fcbayarea.com


You're saying girls are still driving 2 hours, one way, for practices even though they aren't DA anymore?  For Andres, I presume?


----------



## crush (Sep 30, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> You're saying girls are still driving 2 hours, one way, for practices even though they aren't DA anymore?  For Andres, I presume?


The good old days.  I won't share I promise but those were thru talented battles vs De Anza and the great coach who demanded play in the back.  Those were glory days for me as dad only watching awesome possession soccer between two of the best.  My dd never talks about those days anymore.  BTW, I like all the soccer talk Nocal is doing.  This is fun stuff.  Whose #1 up there for 04?  I saw all the 2022 commitments and I would say the Bay Club is maybe #1?


----------



## Lightning Red (Sep 30, 2020)

youthsportsugghhh said:


> Yeah -- not sure it was a comeuppance playing without 3 regulars and their normal starting goalie, but any time that club lost I was not sad.


I can def believe that wasn't their starting keeper but the rest of the committed/national team girls played all weekend.
The 04 team they used in the DA Showcase/Playoffs in Florida was def not their top regulars as most of them played up.
Very talented group of girls no matter what that play an amazing style and are very well coached!


----------



## dad4 (Sep 30, 2020)

crush said:


> The good old days.  I won't share I promise but those were thru talented battles vs De Anza and the great coach who demanded play in the back.  Those were glory days for me as dad only watching awesome possession soccer between two of the best.  My dd never talks about those days anymore.  BTW, I like all the soccer talk Nocal is doing.  This is fun stuff.  Whose #1 up there for 04?  I saw all the 2022 commitments and I would say the Bay Club is maybe #1?


For 2004, I’m not sure you can pick a #1 until Bay Area plays MVLA.
2006 I’d give the nod to San Juan.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 30, 2020)

crush said:


> The good old days.  I won't share I promise but those were thru talented battles vs De Anza and the great coach who demanded play in the back.  Those were glory days for me as dad only watching awesome possession soccer between two of the best.  My dd never talks about those days anymore.  BTW, I like all the soccer talk Nocal is doing.  This is fun stuff.  Whose #1 up there for 04?  I saw all the 2022 commitments and I would say the Bay Club is maybe #1?


You're going to see a lot of 'Quakes undershirts at UCLA in the coming years.  I'm not sure who the #1 club is but 'Quakes was up there.  I suppose Mustang, out of Danville, is the most "prestigious" club in NorCal.  MVLA has done a pretty impressive job sending players to the next level.  Davis had a great year, 2 years ago, but we'll see what the future olds.  Davis is a small, college town and they can draw from the east bay or Sacramento, are ECNL and have a facility with something like 20 fields.  California Thorns was another San Jose based DA, like 'Quakes, that was drawing strong players from 1-2 hours away.


----------



## gotothebushes (Sep 30, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> You're saying girls are still driving 2 hours, one way, for practices even though they aren't DA anymore?  For Andres, I presume?


Yep, Yep and Yep. They're in a good spot so why leaving if your getting good coaching. and training?


----------



## gotothebushes (Sep 30, 2020)

crush said:


> The good old days.  I won't share I promise but those were thru talented battles vs De Anza and the great coach who demanded play in the back.  Those were glory days for me as dad only watching awesome possession soccer between two of the best.  My dd never talks about those days anymore.  BTW, I like all the soccer talk Nocal is doing.  This is fun stuff.  Whose #1 up there for 04?  I saw all the 2022 commitments and I would say the Bay Club is maybe #1?


 Norcal is doing well with their 2022 recruitments. Mvla and FCBA are neck and neck but I would given the edge to MLVA. You are starting to see some of those 04 starting to commit. What's your thoughts on the incoming 05's in Socal and Norcal?


----------



## gotothebushes (Sep 30, 2020)

dad4 said:


> For 2004, I’m not sure you can pick a #1 until Bay Area plays MVLA.
> 2006 I’d give the nod to San Juan.


Whats your take on the 05's?


----------



## MacDre (Sep 30, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> You're saying girls are still driving 2 hours, one way, for practices even though they aren't DA anymore?  For Andres, I presume?


I think the girls are driving 2 hours to play with peers that have a comparable skill set.


----------



## crush (Sep 30, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> Norcal is doing well with their 2022 recruitments. Mvla and FCBA are neck and neck but I would given the edge to MLVA. You are starting to see some of those 04 starting to commit. What's your thoughts on the incoming 05's in Socal and Norcal?


I know nothing about 05s.  I only care about 2022 AND 04s.  I do hear 05 is a very talented bunch.  Mvla is big time with big time players and I forgot to add them to that old rankings in 2017.  I put them in as top as well  You guys rock up there and are loaded with talent and play great soccer. I mean that. I was impressed with AZ teams playing possession. It's great to see


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 30, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I think the girls are driving 2 hours to play with peers that have a comparable skill set.


They can get that locally... at least in the bay area.  I think they went for the DA and stayed for Deza.


----------



## dean (Sep 30, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> Whats your take on the 05's?


And what about 07s, 08s, 09s, and 10s?

07 - I think it's between San Juan, MVLA and IR.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 30, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> Yep, Yep and Yep. They're in a good spot so why leaving if your getting good coaching. and training?


No doubt... Andres is kind of a messiah up here but I didn't know if they all decided to stay for him or leave because of the DA dissolution.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 30, 2020)

dean said:


> And what about 07s, 08s, 09s, and 10s?
> 
> 07 - I think it's between San Juan, MVLA and IR.


IR won't last... those girls are going to flee to SJ or Davis sooner than later.  SJ is full so probably Davis.  Elk Grove soccer is dead. 

What happened to Mustang's 07 dominance?  Did that blow up?


----------



## gotothebushes (Sep 30, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> No doubt... Andres is kind of a messiah up here but I didn't know if they all decided to stay for him or leave because of the DA dissolution.


Yeah they stayed because of the coaching and recognition on being recruited which have worked out for them so far.


----------



## crush (Sep 30, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> IR won't last... those girls are going to flee to SJ or Davis sooner than later.  SJ is full so probably Davis.  Elk Grove soccer is dead.
> 
> What happened to Mustang's 07 dominance?  Did that blow up?


I remember the great Mustang tournament back in da day because it was my dg first road tournament.  We did a combo super team from her old team and it was fun and tough.  San Juan was tough and so many greats up there.  Lightning from Carlsbad was there and they played really good soccer.  This was before 11x11.  What impressed me most was ganas and desire from Nocal teams.  Nocal plays tough and possession so it's tough to guard.


----------



## youthsportsugghhh (Sep 30, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> You're going to see a lot of 'Quakes undershirts at UCLA in the coming years.  I'm not sure who the #1 club is but 'Quakes was up there.  I suppose Mustang, out of Danville, is the most "prestigious" club in NorCal.  MVLA has done a pretty impressive job sending players to the next level.  Davis had a great year, 2 years ago, but we'll see what the future olds.  Davis is a small, college town and they can draw from the east bay or Sacramento, are ECNL and have a facility with something like 20 fields.  California Thorns was another San Jose based DA, like 'Quakes, that was drawing strong players from 1-2 hours away.


Can't wait until practices can be contact and then maybe some scrimmages and then for NPL to start so all of the teams ECNL and GA will have a place to settle our discussions on the field


----------



## Glitterhater (Sep 30, 2020)

dean said:


> And what about 07s, 08s, 09s, and 10s?
> 
> 07 - I think it's between San Juan, MVLA and IR.


Don't know anything about MVLA, but man- SJ and IR 07's are so talented.


----------



## baller (Sep 30, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> IR won't last... those girls are going to flee to SJ or Davis sooner than later.  SJ is full so probably Davis.  Elk Grove soccer is dead.
> 
> What happened to Mustang's 07 dominance?  Did that blow up?


I’d expect Mustang to just get better.  Strong roster that Neil M took over.


----------



## dean (Sep 30, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Don't know anything about MVLA, but man- SJ and IR 07's are so talented.


San Juan seems to have strong teams at many age groups. 04, 05, 06, 07, 08...even 2010. With Placer's issues, I imagine those teams will only get stronger.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 30, 2020)

dean said:


> And what about 07s, 08s, 09s, and 10s?
> 
> 07 - I think it's between San Juan, MVLA and IR.


Agree about 07s.  Haven’t seen 05 or 08.

2009 and 2010 are simple.   Blues FC for 09 and MVLA for 10.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 30, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Agree about 07s.  Haven’t seen 05 or 08.
> 
> 2009 and 2010 are simple.   Blues FC for 09 and MVLA for 10.


MVLA '05 hasn't traditionally been a powerhouse but I think they're coming into their own now.  Always competitive but not really top 10 per se.  I think MVLA is a program that legitimately does try to develop at the lower ages and it pays off once they get U16 and up.  It's starting to show benefits now as they're hanging with the best teams this last year.  Certainly have no problem putting young ladies into big time college programs.


----------



## Savage (Sep 30, 2020)

Pandemics don’t end with suppression or immunity. They end when people say they do. When people decide they’re done being scared & accept the risk of resuming their lives.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 30, 2020)

Savage said:


> Pandemics don’t end with suppression or immunity. They end when people say they do. When people decide they’re done being scared & accept the risk of resuming their lives.


Dude, we were talking soccer for once.

Take your covid misinformation to off topic.


----------



## Glitterhater (Sep 30, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Dude, we were talking soccer for once.
> 
> Take your covid misinformation to off topic.


Haha, was thinking the same thing. Nice break from all the BS.


----------



## crush (Oct 1, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Dude, we were talking soccer for once.
> 
> Take your covid misinformation to off topic.


Dude Dad, I'm proud of you for staying on soccer topic brah.  It was a pleasure last night to read all the soccer takes.  Just soccer is my motto!!


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Oct 1, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> For Andres, I presume?


Yes, his training and reputation/relationships with college coaches.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Oct 1, 2020)

youthsportsugghhh said:


> Yeah most of the 04's stayed with a couple of exceptions and the same with the 06's. Several 03's left from my understanding and not really sure about the 05's.


This is what I have heard and I have not heard of any 05s leaving.


----------



## watfly (Oct 1, 2020)

My apologies if this has been posted before...this is on the front page of the Presidio website.  


Join your Soccer Community for the
10/10/10 rally/protest
on 10/10 at 10:00 am at the

County Administration Building
1600 Pacific Hwy San Diego, CA

Show the County Officials that we count
and our children need to be playing soccer.

All Players, Teams, Coaches and Parents are invited.
Everyone is to wear masks and respect social distancing.

- - - - - - - -​
Presidio is also planning for games to start October 31.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Oct 1, 2020)

watfly said:


> My apologies if this has been posted before...this is on the front page of the Presidio website.
> 
> 
> Join your Soccer Community for the
> ...


That's a Saturday.  San Diego county officials work on weekends?


----------



## SaydeeLu (Oct 1, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Agree about 07s.  Haven’t seen 05 or 08.
> 
> 2009 and 2010 are simple.   Blues FC for 09 and MVLA for 10.



Majority of Blues 2009s and 2010s have moved to different clubs. Definitely SJ and MVLA for youngers.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 1, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> That's a Saturday.  San Diego county officials work on weekends?


Politicians count votes 7 days a week.  You’ll be noticed.  

Don’t go if you aren’t going to mask up and distance.  You’ll do more harm than good if you create an image of maskless soccer people crowding together.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 1, 2020)

SaydeeLu said:


> Majority of Blues 2009s and 2010s have moved to different clubs. Definitely SJ and MVLA for youngers.


Already?  That happens quick.  SJ is going to be stacked if they got half of the Blues 09s.


----------



## SaydeeLu (Oct 1, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Already?  That happens quick.  SJ is going to be stacked if they got half of the Blues 09s.


Yeah it was swift. SJ didn't get a lot of the 09s, just the 10s, so that will be interesting over the next few years. The SJ 09s had been getting better before COVID anyway, and they did pick up a few good additions during the tryout window. I only expect them to continue to get better. The strongest 09s from Blues FC went to a smaller local club that is stronger on the boys side. They already had a good 09 team, so the Blues players will only make them even better. If you're local I'm sure you can guess which club I'm talking about.


----------



## Desert Hound (Oct 1, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> That's a Saturday.  San Diego county officials work on weekends?


They get paid on Saturdays.....but work?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 1, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Disney just laid off 28000 people. I guess Gavin could care less. All that discussion didn’t work.  You think Gavin actually cares about youth soccer?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gavin is busy with reparations at this moment.


----------



## watfly (Oct 1, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> That's a Saturday.  San Diego county officials work on weekends?


Only the ones breaking up youth soccer practices and scrimmages.



dad4 said:


> Politicians count votes 7 days a week.  You’ll be noticed.
> 
> Don’t go if you aren’t going to mask up and distance.  You’ll do more harm than good if you create an image of maskless soccer people crowding together.


How about Molotov cocktails? I hear those are OK, mostly peaceful devices.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 1, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> They get paid on Saturdays.....but work?





Sheriff Joe said:


> Gavin is busy with reparations at this moment.





watfly said:


> Only the ones breaking up youth soccer practices and scrimmages.
> 
> 
> How about Molotov cocktails? I hear those are OK, mostly peaceful devices.


What, you three need to ruin this thread with politics, too?

Go make a "Newsom sucks" thread in off topic.


----------



## full90 (Oct 1, 2020)

Heard today surf is hosting scrimmages/games at Oceanside this weekend vs other clubs. Anyone going? And I’m not up on the latest regs and colors but are fields open in Oceanside?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 1, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Gavin is busy with reparations at this moment.


Who said he sucks, I identify as black.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Oct 1, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Already?  That happens quick.  SJ is going to be stacked if they got half of the Blues 09s.


They also got a bunch when that really strong Blues 07 team blew up a few years back... though they were already pretty strong.


----------



## lafalafa (Oct 1, 2020)

full90 said:


> Heard today surf is hosting scrimmages/games at Oceanside this weekend vs other clubs. Anyone going? And I’m not up on the latest regs and colors but are fields open in Oceanside?


Surf reconsidered some of the olders,  some of invited teams had 2nd thoughts due to recent "positive"  findings so I dunno? Still going forward for the youngers? 

Meanwhile u23 teams playing this weekend with some sort of showcase going down elsewhere


----------



## 3leches (Oct 1, 2020)

Yep, there have been some "positive findings" in the older age groups, interesting that one particular team just returned back from scrimmaging in Arizona recently and now has a positive case. Correlation ?? maybe, maybe not.
Younger are still a go from what I hear, I'll have to check in with some friends.


----------



## youthsportsugghhh (Oct 1, 2020)

3leches said:


> Yep, there have been some "positive findings" in the older age groups, interesting that one particular team just returned back from scrimmaging in Arizona recently and now has a positive case. Correlation ?? maybe, maybe not.
> Younger are still a go from what I hear, I'll have to check in with some friends.


At least they tested after traveling - wonder if they tested because they were feeling under the weather or because they traveled


----------



## Glitterhater (Oct 1, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> They also got a bunch when that really strong Blues 07 team blew up a few years back... though they were already pretty strong.


That team is now almost evenly split between Davis & SJ ECNL. With maybe 1 left at Placer? 07 ECNL is going to be fun this year! (Assuming there are games, of course!)


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Oct 1, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> That team is now almost evenly split between Davis & SJ ECNL. With maybe 1 left at Placer? 07 ECNL is going to be fun this year! (Assuming there are games, of course!)


Interesting.  I thought it was most to Placer and San Juan.  Healthy drives for the next 7 years.


----------



## happy9 (Oct 2, 2020)

full90 said:


> Heard today surf is hosting scrimmages/games at Oceanside this weekend vs other clubs. Anyone going? And I’m not up on the latest regs and colors but are fields open in Oceanside?


Surf is everywhere.  They will also be in AZ over the weekend playing friendlies.  Have no idea which teams are coming (ECNL, ECRL).


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 2, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Surf is everywhere.  They will also be in AZ over the weekend playing friendlies.  Have no idea which teams are coming (ECNL, ECRL).


Pretty sure both groups are in AZ this weekend.


----------



## full90 (Oct 2, 2020)

I just know boys surf 17’s and 19’s playing golden state in Oceanside. Assuming it’s the big complex but I don’t know details.


----------



## 3leches (Oct 2, 2020)

Youngers have been cancelled at Oceanside


----------



## Spfister (Oct 2, 2020)

full90 said:


> Heard today surf is hosting scrimmages/games at Oceanside this weekend vs other clubs. Anyone going? And I’m not up on the latest regs and colors but are fields open in Oceanside?


How can they do that when not allowed under state guidelines? A respectable club like Surf doing this?


----------



## mlx (Oct 2, 2020)

I know this has been asked countless times.... What "phase" is CalSouth in? I heard it was phase 1 a couple of weeks ago and that in two weeks would change to phase 2 (next week) where "limited scrimmages" can be played. I found the rules about it, but I can't find where it specifies what phase is current.


----------



## lafalafa (Oct 2, 2020)

mlx said:


> I know this has been asked countless times.... What "phase" is CalSouth in? I heard it was phase 1 a couple of weeks ago and that in two weeks would change to phase 2 (next week) where "limited scrimmages" can be played. I found the rules about it, but I can't find where it specifies what phase is current.


14 weeks+ stuck on phase 1

State youth sports guidance and/or Local health guidelines haven't been updated to move to the next phases yet.


----------



## Emma (Oct 2, 2020)

Spfister said:


> How can they do that when not allowed under state guidelines? A respectable club like Surf doing this?


Because they are respectable, they should do it!  The kids need to get out there playing.  It's not reasonable to continue this madness until the governor prioritizes it.  It shouldn't be his priority either but there's no need to keep our kids from playing.

The president and first lady getting Covid might make governors more hesitant to open up though...


----------



## lafalafa (Oct 2, 2020)

Spfister said:


> How can they do that when not allowed under state guidelines? A respectable club like Surf doing this?


changed there plans & canceled. Was 4 or more clubs involved

Was reported going to be a proof of concept demo for socially distance or safer scrimmages or something like that?


----------



## Spfister (Oct 2, 2020)

Emma said:


> Because they are respectable, they should do it!  The kids need to get out there playing.  It's not reasonable to continue this madness until the governor prioritizes it.  It shouldn't be his priority either but there's no need to keep our kids from playing.
> 
> The president and first lady getting Covid might make governors more hesitant to open up though...


I agree they should be playing. But holding an event like this in my opinion is just not well thought out.


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## Not A Player (Oct 5, 2020)

True that Nevada promulgated new guidelines for youth sports, basically allowing soccer to resume (with reasonable safeguards)?


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## jimlewis (Oct 5, 2020)

Not A Player said:


> True that Nevada promulgated new guidelines for youth sports, basically allowing soccer to resume (with reasonable safeguards)?


yes, full go Oct 24


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## gotothebushes (Oct 5, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> yes, full go Oct 24


Full Contact October 24th? How strong is your source?


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## jimlewis (Oct 5, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> Full Contact October 24th? How strong is your source?


the governor, I think thats a strong source



			https://nvhealthresponse.nv.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Nevada-Guidance-for-Adult-Youth-Sports.pdf


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## chiefs (Oct 5, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> the governor, I think thats a strong source
> 
> 
> 
> https://nvhealthresponse.nv.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Nevada-Guidance-for-Adult-Youth-Sports.pdf


I like the detail on sports.  Calif Governor has no such plan or any idea what he’s doing.


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## jimlewis (Oct 5, 2020)

chiefs said:


> I like the detail on sports.  Calif Governor has no such plan or any idea what he’s doing.


It would be so easy for him to put something like this out and then have complete control over the situation.  instead they have a lot of "illegal" activities going on.  Ignoring the fact clubs are taking theirr money and spending it in other states now too.


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## chiefs (Oct 5, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> It would be so easy for him to put something like this out and then have complete control over the situation.  instead they have a lot of "illegal" activities going on.  Ignoring the fact clubs are taking theirr money and spending it in other states now too.


It’s been 8 months!  He is not a capable governor or just a political hack or both.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Oct 5, 2020)

chiefs said:


> It’s been 8 months!  He is not a capable governor or just a political hack or both.


He knows exactly what he's doing.  He's taking one for his party... and expects reciprocity when he runs for the White House.


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## chiefs (Oct 5, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> He knows exactly what he's doing.  He's taking one for his party... and expects reciprocity when he runs for the White House.


Agree, but his political career is closer to the end; his record in SF and now the state will disqualify him nationally. Similar to Kamala, who couldn’t even win Calif in the primary.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Oct 5, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Agree, but his political career is closer to the end; his record in SF and now the state will disqualify him nationally. Similar to Kamala, who couldn’t even win Calif in the primary.


Why do you think he panders to the poor, homeless, ex convicts and criminals?  He may not win but he'll be the nominee and say it was the kids he was only protecting.  He's Slick Willy 2.0 and even women won't care that he screwed and stole his best friend's wife.


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## chiefs (Oct 5, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Why do you think he panders to the poor, homeless, ex convicts and criminals?  He may not win but he'll be the nominee and say it was the kids he was only protecting.


Except that 46 other states have opened up and proven his science and math are exceptionally way off base. Hard to explain that schools, theaters, theme parks, and youth sports all shut down so kids are left in their self made bunker.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Oct 6, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Except that 46 other states have opened up and proven his science and math are exceptionally way off base. Hard to explain that schools, theaters, theme parks, and youth sports all shut down so kids are left in their self made bunker.


Yep... his kids continued attending open private school while public school kids were kept home.


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## Desert Hound (Oct 6, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Yep... his kids continued attending open private school while public school kids were kept home.


The virus is only active around public schools and union members. Private schools are safe.


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## whatithink (Oct 6, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> The virus is only active around public schools and union members.


and obviously the WH. 

In fact, thanks are clearly due to the Prez for taking the lead in demonstrating, that even in a highly controlled and regularly tested environment, the abject failure to apply a minimal common sense approach of masks and distancing, can result in a "super" spreader event in a matter of days. It's also been really helpful of the Prez for demonstrating that the lack of a rigorous contact tracing process can cause delays in ensuring those potentially impacted safely self- quarantine and not cluelessly continue to spread the virus in ever increasing ripples.

Thanks T for taking one for the team (sic).


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## Desert Hound (Oct 6, 2020)

whatithink said:


> and obviously the WH.
> 
> In fact, thanks are clearly due to the Prez for taking the lead in demonstrating, that even in a highly controlled and regularly tested environment, the abject failure to apply a minimal common sense approach of masks and distancing, can result in a "super" spreader event in a matter of days. It's also been really helpful of the Prez for demonstrating that the lack of a rigorous contact tracing process can cause delays in ensuring those potentially impacted safely self- quarantine and not cluelessly continue to spread the virus in ever increasing ripples.
> 
> Thanks T for taking one for the team (sic).


Or it shows if you are not in terrible shape and with treatments they have devised over the past 6 months, for most the virus is not an issue. 

It also shows that despite everyone around him getting tested on a regular basis...the virus is going to spread. Why do we pretend otherwise?


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## notintheface (Oct 6, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> He's Slick Willy 2.0 and even women won't care that he screwed and stole his best friend's wife.


Dude, your paragon of leadership is on his third wife. (I think? Fourth maybe? He wants Ivanka anyways, right? Anyways who cares)

Anyways thanks for trashing yet another thread. Much appreciated.


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## whatithink (Oct 6, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Or it shows if you are not in terrible shape and with treatments they have devised over the past 6 months, for most the virus is not an issue.
> 
> It also shows that despite everyone around him getting tested on a regular basis...the virus is going to spread. Why do we pretend otherwise?


We know it'll spread but we should try to ensure we can save as many lives as possible until we get a vaccine - so masks, distance etc. and don't belittle it - people are dying and will, so let's minimize that (dying) by being smart.


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## espola (Oct 6, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Or it shows if you are not in terrible shape and with treatments they have devised over the past 6 months, for most the virus is not an issue.
> 
> It also shows that despite everyone around him getting tested on a regular basis...the virus is going to spread. Why do we pretend otherwise?


Are you pretending the SCOTUS announcement superspreader event didn't happen?


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## Emma (Oct 6, 2020)

Spfister said:


> I agree they should be playing. But holding an event like this in my opinion is just not well thought out.


I'm all for social distancing and wearing masks.  Why do you think an event like this is not well thought out?  Not that many teams there.  Social distancing and mask.  Outdoor sports.  It's better and safer this way than forcing people to drive out of town in areas not requiring masks.  We've got to do things reasonably.


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## jpeter (Oct 6, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> the governor, I think thats a strong source
> 
> 
> 
> https://nvhealthresponse.nv.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Nevada-Guidance-for-Adult-Youth-Sports.pdf


Thanks for posting this.  Much more reasonable vs what's we have in CA so far.

Plenty of other politics threads but I understand frustrating,  a place to vent so what the heck

Draft amusement park guidance was about to be released but the industry asked them to take a pause / review to fine tune some of the language.

This needs to happen with a much needed CA Youth Sports guidance revision, classification redo, etc has to be done so let's send our local & state politicians this Nevada example.

Return...most are hoping for Nov games or sooner if you go out of state


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## Savage (Oct 6, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> the governor, I think thats a strong source
> 
> 
> 
> https://nvhealthresponse.nv.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Nevada-Guidance-for-Adult-Youth-Sports.pdf


Governor of Washington State published similar guidance today and games are being played this weekend in Seattle after months of California-like restrictions!

https://www.governor.wa.gov/sites/default/files/COVID19 Phase 2 and 3 Sporting Activities Guidance.pdf?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery 

Governor Newsome is on island at this point.


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## Soccer Bum 06 (Oct 6, 2020)

Savage said:


> Governor of Washington State published similar guidance today and games are being played this weekend in Seattle after months of California-like restrictions!
> 
> https://www.governor.wa.gov/sites/default/files/COVID19 Phase 2 and 3 Sporting Activities Guidance.pdf?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery
> 
> Governor Newsome is on island at this point.


Newsome and this state is beyond the extreme with what they have done to the people. School, youth sports, small business all thrown to the wayside. They have learned they can control the masses through fear and executive orders with no checks and balances from the legislative or judicial branches. While the disease is legitimate the actions this state leadership has taken have not been measured. They have set unattainable metrics for reopening and have disguised it as being for the greater good. I hope history will look back and judge these political zealots for who they are. It seems as if the majority of people in this state approve of this governor and his policies or just like being on the dole. I will never accept living in a socialist, autocratic society and I am not moving. So I hold out hope the political winds will change one day in what used to be a great state.


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## Kicker4Life (Oct 8, 2020)

Just heard a certain Club got banned from OCGP for a second time for not following Covid 19 protocols.  OUCH!!


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## Desert Hound (Oct 8, 2020)

Soccer Bum 06 said:


> So I hold out hope the political winds will change one day in what used to be a great state.


I think you have a long wait ahead. CA is effectively a one party state...and each yr they consolidate their hold with things such as your jungle primary.


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## ToonArmy (Oct 8, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Just heard a certain Club got banned from OCGP for a second time for not following Covid 19 protocols.  OUCH!!


Is it back to the Ranch for them? 

I'm only joking. Please don't attack me apologists. For all I know is my daughter's club. So far her practice tonight there is still on.


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## chiefs (Oct 8, 2020)

The clubs should all ban together and refuse to pay rent to OCGP. That rent should be utilized for out of state fields for games. The 6’ distance practice at this time is not even close to optimal.


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## Kicker4Life (Oct 8, 2020)

chiefs said:


> The clubs should all ban together and refuse to pay rent to OCGP. That rent should be utilized for out of state fields for games. The 6’ distance practice at this time is not even close to optimal.


Clubs across CA should band together and petition the Governor to stop this madness and LET THE KIDS PLAY!!!


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## EOTL (Oct 8, 2020)

chiefs said:


> The clubs should all ban together and refuse to pay rent to OCGP. That rent should be utilized for out of state fields for games. The 6’ distance practice at this time is not even close to optimal.


The Federal Trade Commission would have a real problem with that.


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## Kicker4Life (Oct 8, 2020)

EOTL said:


> The Federal Trade Commission would have a real problem with that.


I’m sure they care...


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## Emma (Oct 8, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Clubs across CA should band together and petition the Governor to stop this madness and LET THE KIDS PLAY!!!


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 8, 2020)

dad4 said:


> My kid hasn't had a real game since March.  Not much to discuss.
> 
> Besides, EJ and Luis convinced me that talking about my own kid is a bad idea.
> 
> ...


Sorry, somehow I did not see this post. Anywho, there are others in NorCal who you can speak with for advice on clubs. Just PM. And, again not talking about C19. Just the game.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 8, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I think mostly they followed Deza when he founded BASC.


Deza. Hmmm.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 8, 2020)

dad4 said:


> For 2004, I’m not sure you can pick a #1 until Bay Area plays MVLA.
> 2006 I’d give the nod to San Juan.


There we go. Totally.


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## Anon9 (Oct 8, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Deza. Hmmm.


Elaborate please.....


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