# Script Flip: Presidio Rejects Surf



## Threeke (Apr 19, 2017)

https://www.soccernation.com/surf-soccer-club-attempts-presidio-return/


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Apr 19, 2017)

Karma is a bitch.  Probably not in anyone's best interest to ever leave on bad terms - anywhere.  Be polite.  be professional.  Do what is best for your organization but try not to burn bridges.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 19, 2017)

Presidio League was such a waste of time.  The only real competition for the Surf "A" teams were the Surf "B" teams or Carlsbad Elite in some age groups and occasionally an SDSC, PQ Premier or super Albion team.  Honestly it wasn't worth it.


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## watfly (Apr 19, 2017)

Anyone know what the stated reason was that Surf was denied?  I'm far from a Surf cheerleader, but if Presidio did it to be vindictive that's incredibly lame and shortsighted.  Why wouldn't you want another competitive club in your league...its about the kids, right?


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 19, 2017)

norwegian said:


> @MakeAPlay -- they'd probably hoped to put their younger C,D, E,... teams back in presidio - not the top teams.


That makes more sense.  No need for those teams to drive all over the place to get a good game.  Presidio is a good fit for those teams.  Surf has new management and the will of the old administration shouldn't be held against them.


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## outside! (Apr 19, 2017)

watfly said:


> Anyone know what the stated reason was that Surf was denied?  I'm far from a Surf cheerleader, but if Presidio did it to be vindictive that's incredibly lame and shortsighted.  Why wouldn't you want another competitive club in your league...its about the kids, right?


I think Presidio should have let in the lower level Surf teams with some conditions (access to Polo fields and Oceanside fields for instance). This result is not surprising however. The voting members of Presidio are club DOC's or their representatives. Surf has treated so many San Diego clubs poorly over the years, that it sounds like Karma bit them in the ass. Still not a good thing that the grownups cannot get along and do what is best for the kids.


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Presidio League was such a waste of time.  The only real competition for the Surf "A" teams were the Surf "B" teams or Carlsbad Elite in some age groups and occasionally an SDSC, PQ Premier or super Albion team.  Honestly it wasn't worth it.


Nonsense.


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

watfly said:


> Anyone know what the stated reason was that Surf was denied?  I'm far from a Surf cheerleader, but if Presidio did it to be vindictive that's incredibly lame and shortsighted.  Why wouldn't you want another competitive club in your league...its about the kids, right?


Presidio makes big decisions like this by public vote - one vote for each club in good standing, and one vote for each board member.  After telling all those clubs that they are leaving because their shit don't stink as bad as the locals, four years is too soon.


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> That makes more sense.  No need for those teams to drive all over the place to get a good game.  Presidio is a good fit for those teams.  Surf has new management and the will of the old administration shouldn't be held against them.


They still have the same President and the same powers behind the throne.


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## Striker17 (Apr 19, 2017)

espola said:


> Presidio makes big decisions like this by public vote - one vote for each club in good standing, and one vote for each board member.  After telling all those clubs that they are leaving because their shit don't stink as bad as the locals, four years is too soon.


Plus since they are so great they can find a new way to poach their boys players from the "horrible South Bay clubs"...
Put some leg work in!


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 19, 2017)

espola said:


> Nonsense.



In my player's age group the Surf "A" team lost once in their last 3 years and it was to Carlsbad Premier Red at the time.  The only other losses EVER in Presidio where to the Surf Blue team and the Surf Lemay team that merged with the Surf White team the next year.  The DOC is different as are many of the key coaches and CC is not longer there.  What else do you want?


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

outside! said:


> I think Presidio should have let in the lower level Surf teams with some conditions (access to Polo fields and Oceanside fields for instance). This result is not surprising however. The voting members of Presidio are club DOC's or their representatives. Surf has treated so many San Diego clubs poorly over the years, that it sounds like Karma bit them in the ass. Still not a good thing that the grownups cannot get along and do what is best for the kids.


Oceanside Breakers Club, which has most of its teams playing in Presidio, already has access to the Oceanside complex.  Any attempt to shut them out would not go well with Oceanside City council.


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## Striker17 (Apr 19, 2017)

espola said:


> They still have the same President and the same powers behind the throne.


Totally agree. CC was a much bigger force de majeur than the current one anyway he could have actually probably gotten it done along with some help from MC. Same circus same monkeys ...


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> In my player's age group the Surf "A" team lost once in their last 3 years and it was to Carlsbad Premier Red at the time.  The only other losses EVER in Presidio where to the Surf "B" team and the Surf
> 
> 
> 
> In my player's age group the Surf "A" team lost once in their last 3 years and it was to Carlsbad Premier Red at the time.  The only other losses EVER in Presidio where to the Surf Blue team and the Surf Lemay team that merged with the Surf White team the next year.  The DOC is different as are many of the key coaches and CC is not longer there.  What else do you want?


You are repeating yourself, and Presidio clubs know better, especially on the boys side.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 19, 2017)

espola said:


> You are repeating yourself, and Presidio clubs know better, especially on the boys side.


Accidental repeat.  It doesn't change the truth.  Personally I think that it is a waste for Surf's top two teams to play in Presidio even at the younger ages.  All but a couple of the top players in San Diego played for Surf in my player's age group and that isn't even close to being disputed.  If they played in Presidio I wouldn't have had her waste her time there.  Surf knows their "A" team customers.  Top players not the rank and file.


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## Striker17 (Apr 19, 2017)

espola said:


> Oceanside Breakers Club, which has most of its teams playing in Presidio, already has access to the Oceanside complex.  Any attempt to shut them out would not go well with Oceanside City council.


THere have been rumors for years since MC owns that complex that's surf would move there - never made sense to me


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> THere have been rumors for years since MC owns that complex that's surf would move there - never made sense to me


The land is owned by the City of Oceanside.  They have an agreement with MC's company to build and operate the facility.  One of the clauses of the agreement guarantees access to local groups.

Surf might still move there, but that seems less likely now that the Polo Fields lease has been resolved with the City of San Diego.


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## Striker17 (Apr 19, 2017)

espola said:


> The land is owned by the City of Oceanside.  They have an agreement with MC's company to build and operate the facility.  One of the clauses of the agreement guarantees access to local groups.
> 
> Surf might still move there, but that seems less likely now that the Polo Fields lease has been resolved with the City of San Diego.


One of the clauses in the Polo field is access to local groups and that doesn't stop them from locking that place up tight and only allocating lacrosse tourneys once in awhile ..they have a tendency to get what they want.


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> One of the clauses in the Polo field is access to local groups and that doesn't stop them from locking that place up tight and only allocating lacrosse tourneys once in awhile ..they have a tendency to get what they want.


Surf Soccer Club is not Surf Cup Inc.


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## Striker17 (Apr 19, 2017)

espola said:


> Surf Soccer Club is not Surf Cup Inc.


Aware.
But don't buy into the fact that the two are not intricately woven together. It's obvious


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> Aware.
> But don't buy into the fact that the two are not intricately woven together. It's obvious


Surf Cup Inc (or whatever their current corporate name is) separated from Surf Club decades ago.. MC pulled the golden egg out of  that goose.


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## Striker17 (Apr 19, 2017)

espola said:


> Surf Cup Inc (or whatever their current corporate name is) separated from Surf Club decades ago.. MC pulled the golden egg out of  that goose.


Again aware not getting into it on a public forum. Wink wink
I know they have absolutely noooottthhhinngg to do with them now


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> Again aware not getting into it on a public forum. Wink wink
> I know they have absolutely noooottthhhinngg to do with them now


They show up to Surf Cup in the same chauffered Mercedes.


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## Socal United (Apr 19, 2017)

espola said:


> Presidio makes big decisions like this by public vote - one vote for each club in good standing, and one vote for each board member.  After telling all those clubs that they are leaving because their shit don't stink as bad as the locals, four years is too soon.


Everyone can come blame all sorts of people, at the end of the day it was this meeting where Surf essentially said they were too good for everyone that still bothers many of these people that are voting.  Whether right or wrong, a lot of these same people are still the presidio reps and remember.  Makeaplay, you are right on the girls side but not necessarily on the boys side.  I think it can be resolved, but will take an effort made by JH to get this sorted.  No reason that it shouldn't happen, but the soccer community is not big when it comes to things like this.


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

Socal United said:


> Everyone can come blame all sorts of people, at the end of the day it was this meeting where Surf essentially said they were too good for everyone that still bothers many of these people that are voting.  Whether right or wrong, a lot of these same people are still the presidio reps and remember.  Makeaplay, you are right on the girls side but not necessarily on the boys side.  I think it can be resolved, but will take an effort made by JH to get this sorted.  No reason that it shouldn't happen, but the soccer community is not big when it comes to things like this.


Also, every club in the county has seen Surf attempt to skim off their better players.  Better to keep them playing in the distant league.

Surf is so arrogant they even got kicked out of CSL.


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Accidental repeat.  It doesn't change the truth.  Personally I think that it is a waste for Surf's top two teams to play in Presidio even at the younger ages.  All but a couple of the top players in San Diego played for Surf in my player's age group and that isn't even close to being disputed.  If they played in Presidio I wouldn't have had her waste her time there.  Surf knows their "A" team customers.  Top players not the rank and file.


How high was your nose in the air when you typed that?  Were you able to see the keyboard at all?


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## Round (Apr 19, 2017)

watfly said:


> Anyone know what the stated reason was that Surf was denied?  I'm far from a Surf cheerleader, but if Presidio did it to be vindictive that's incredibly lame and shortsighted.  Why wouldn't you want another competitive club in your league...its about the kids, right?


Surf hasn't been about the kids as long as I've been around.  There is nothing that they offer to b and C teams that many other clubs around them can and do.  Surf tried to kill competition with ecnl and scdsl, didn't work. 

They should live with it.  How many chances do you give an organization to prove they aren't what they are?


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## krazysoccer (Apr 19, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> In my player's age group the Surf "A" team lost once in their last 3 years and it was to Carlsbad Premier Red at the time.  The only other losses EVER in Presidio where to the Surf Blue team and the Surf Lemay team that merged with the Surf White team the next year.  The DOC is different as are many of the key coaches and CC is not longer there.  What else do you want?





espola said:


> Surf Soccer Club is not Surf Cup Inc.


Are you sure about that???


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## krazysoccer (Apr 19, 2017)

espola said:


> They still have the same President and the same powers behind the throne.


I wonder if the Pres has any ownership in Surf Cup Sports. Just sayin...


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

krazysoccer said:


> Are you sure about that???


They have separate non-profit registrations, and file separate 990s with IRS.  There may be a lot of overlap in control, and I am pretty sure that Surf Soccer enjoys some of the profits from Surf Cup, but they are distinct entities.

I often wished that there would be some legal tussle between the two that would result in laying out the agreement documents between them in public.


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## krazysoccer (Apr 19, 2017)

espola said:


> They have separate non-profit registrations, and file separate 990s with IRS.  There may be a lot of overlap in control, and I am pretty sure that Surf Soccer enjoys some of the profits from Surf Cup, but they are distinct entities.
> 
> I often wished that there would be some legal tussle between the two that would result in laying out the agreement documents between them in public.


I wonder if board members have ownership in Surf Cup Sports.


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## Round (Apr 19, 2017)

All pain from the pat aside.  There are two other clubs that are acting in a similar fashion, neither tried to screw csl,  and both control Presidio.  Presiding members may be wise to play them all against each other.  

CEO in a sweat suit, really?  Someone has become a little too greedy.


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

krazysoccer said:


> I wonder if board members have ownership in Surf Cup Sports.


Based on previous history, next we will discuss who keeps the money from the mud-lot parking fees.


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

Round said:


> All pain from the pat aside.  There are two other clubs that are acting in a similar fashion, neither tried to screw csl,  and both control Presidio.  Presiding members may be wise to play them all against each other.
> 
> CEO in a sweat suit, really?  Someone has become a little too greedy.


I remember back when Presidio had its website disaster (2004-5) and representatives from many clubs met with CSL asking them to take over.  They declined unless clubs were willing to pay a lot higher fees than they had been paying Presidio.


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## coachrefparent (Apr 19, 2017)

norwegian said:


> @MakeAPlay -- they'd probably hoped to put their younger C,D, E,... teams back in presidio - not the top teams.


Surf is (was?) too good for Presidio:


> “San Diego’s Presidio Soccer League is no longer the right soccer environment for our highly competitive and accomplished youth soccer players,” said Jeremy McDonald, San Diego Surf Soccer Club’s President in an open letter circulated back in 2013. “Today, we announce that we are ending our long-term relationship, which has helped develop thousands of youth soccer players. We do not believe playing in Presidio is in the best interest of our players.”


But apparently Surf has been following the same model as other clubs, "If they'll pay, we'll give them our monogrammed uniform (and Mom's bumper sticker for her fancy car), and let them play."

Surf had a few really pretty crappy teams this year, some of which could not have competed against AYSO all-star teams. One of their younger boys teams lost most league games by the double digits. Despite Presidio not being "the right soccer environment for our highly competitive and accomplished youth soccer players," nor "in the best interest of [their]players,” this team gave their parents and players the dream of State Cup. But this highly touted club petitioned to play in the Mayor (Rec) division, and did not get past the first round.

So I guess Surf figured they needed to put these kids back in AA-C/B, etc. so they could impress the parents with the great development of their children who are such highly competitive and accomplished youth soccer players and keep charging them thousands of dollars for the Surf logo.

Presidio, knowing they and their players are far inferior and beneath this elite club, said, "No thanks."


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## espola (Apr 19, 2017)

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/330617562

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/953731566

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/330488403


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## Striker17 (Apr 19, 2017)

Personally - and I am no fan of Surf - I think it's a shame that Presidio did this. Surf has brought in some great B and C team coaches the last three years who are trying to develop and I think are humble and hardworking people. 
I also think that Presidio has some fantastic boys side teams. 
It's a shame that Presidio didn't allow this but I can see why it happened.
I for one feel that there are too many clubs period. I wish that club was club- that there was a basic level that had to be attained before "signing the bottom line" and that the rest of us could play in a large geographically oriented league. It just seems like it has gotten out of control


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## Striker17 (Apr 19, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> Surf is (was?) too good for Presidio:
> 
> But apparently Surf has been following the same model as other clubs, "If they'll pay, we'll give them our monogrammed uniform (and Mom's bumper sticker for her fancy car), and let them play."
> 
> ...


PSS as a historical point of interest when that decision was made Surf was in fact the Surf of lengends. I remember that time very well. It was always a lopsided game and the OC represented a new frontier honestly. 
The very same year the switch happened was a Grind but it was a good one. Competition was better. 
Then Slammers and Strikers added a million teams. Surf did the same. It was all within the last three years when all the extra teams got added- don't know if it was the chicken before the egg or what. It all happened at the same time.


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## Round (Apr 19, 2017)

espola said:


> I remember back when Presidio had its website disaster (2004-5) and representatives from many clubs met with CSL asking them to take over.  They declined unless clubs were willing to pay a lot higher fees than they had been paying Presidio.


Those were the days I guess.  
In any case sounds like it worked itself out. 

Surf has always wanted an undeserved advantage.  No matter what the advantage you need us average people to pay for the elite and the ones that don't pay.  

Strange that Mrs. Make a Play brought up the Lemay thing.  Almost the beginning of the end of the good old days as far as I'm concerned.


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## Striker17 (Apr 19, 2017)

Round said:


> Those were the days I guess.
> In any case sounds like it worked itself out.
> 
> Surf has always wanted an undeserved advantage.  No matter what the advantage you need us average people to pay for the elite and the ones that don't pay.
> ...


It's business they always wanted a complete monopoly and did everything they could to preserve that image. They took a geographic advantage and built a dream- did it quite well. People were drinking that Kool-Aid because the fact the matter is the elite players had  no other place they could go and play high-quality camp competition in the city of San Diego .  That's what I always thought was so funny as everyone thought it was the best club and no one ever thought maybe they were the best club because that really elite players had no other places they could go .


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## watfly (Apr 20, 2017)

Round said:


> Surf hasn't been about the kids as long as I've been around.  There is nothing that they offer to b and C teams that many other clubs around them can and do.  Surf tried to kill competition with ecnl and scdsl, didn't work.
> 
> They should live with it.  How many chances do you give an organization to prove they aren't what they are?


Yes, I was being facetious about it "being about the kids".  It's not just Surf, although they may be more egregious than others. For the "brand" clubs, and some of the other larger clubs, its never been about the kids.  Unfortunately,  Presidio's decision, which appears to be based on ego and spite, sadly perpetuates the problem on a league wide level.

Having competitive Surf teams (although not dominant on the boys side despite claims of such) in Presidio/SDDA would benefit the league and the other member clubs.


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## espola (Apr 20, 2017)

watfly said:


> Yes, I was being facetious about it "being about the kids".  It's not just Surf, although they may be more egregious than others. For the "brand" clubs, and some of the other larger clubs, its never been about the kids.  Unfortunately,  Presidio's decision, which appears to be based on ego and spite, sadly perpetuates the problem on a league wide level.  And -- the clubs who have been upgrading their player development methods over the years might fear that they will just become feeders to Surf's system.
> 
> Having competitive Surf teams (although not dominant on the boys side despite claims of such) in Presidio/SDDA would benefit the league and the other member clubs.


Even if Surf is permitted back into Presidio, their best girls team will be playing in ECNL, and their best boys team in DA.  I have seen nothing to indicate that they are backing out of SCDSL with their next rank teams.  I don't think Surf's C, D and E teams (how far do they go anyway?) would offer any special competitive strength to Presidio.

This is the course they could have taken four years ago (splitting teams into whatever league looks appropriate for each team), except that then they would have had to tell different groups of parents different stories about Presidio's worth.


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## Striker17 (Apr 20, 2017)

espola said:


> Even if Surf is permitted back into Presidio, their best girls team will be playing in ECNL, and their best boys team in DA.  I have seen nothing to indicate that they are backing out of SCDSL with their next rank teams.  I don't think Surf's C, D and E teams (how far do they go anyway?) would offer any special competitive strength to Presidio.
> 
> This is the course they could have taken four years ago (splitting teams into whatever league looks appropriate for each team), except that then they would have had to tell different groups of parents different stories about Presidio's worth.


Tsk tsk tsk.
1. They go as far down as they can. 80 kids show up "this is the most talented group we have ever seen so we are adding a fourth team"
60 kids show up "we are making this as elite as we can this year"
It's masterful and enjoyable to watch !
2. It's not about Presidio. It's about selling the crack pipe. If little Chloe is playing at Presidio and her BFF Riley is at SCSDL you can't sell mom not he fact that Chloe "just needs to grow" and "could move up"
It's optics. Selling the dream. Getting revenue teams fully loaded


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## seesnake (Apr 20, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> Tsk tsk tsk.
> 1. They go as far down as they can. 80 kids show up "this is the most talented group we have ever seen so we are adding a fourth team"
> 60 kids show up "we are making this as elite as we can this year"
> It's masterful and enjoyable to watch !
> ...


This, though they aren't the only club singing this tune.


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## tugs (Apr 20, 2017)

There are also some parents of second/third teams that really don't want to drive to Orange County and beyond for SCDSL games for their ulittles when there's plenty of competition south of San Onofre that will suffice.  They should just stay in SCDSL and abolish spring league participation.


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## chargerfan (Apr 20, 2017)

seesnake said:


> This, though they aren't the only club singing this tune.


These clubs that have c-z teams are definitely singing some sort of hypnotic tune to get parents to shell out that kind of cash for rec soccer.


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## full90 (Apr 20, 2017)

Presidio short-sighted in this vote, in my opinion. Surf moved leagues to give it's top teams better competition. (I thought Presidio told them years ago they couldn't split leagues...is that correct?) With the progression of ECNL and DA the top kids are in set leagues and it makes sense for Surf to keep other teams more local....as well as for Presidio to add a strong club with resources back to the mix. 

I think everyone demonizes Surf parents as kool aid drinkers but i don't know any who have kids playing on a c or d level team who believe that their kid is destined for greatness. They know this is a fun activity for their kid and WANT to play more local with no dreams of grandeur. Surf coaches of c and d kids don't generally "promise anything more than development and having fun." That quote via a text message from a surf parent on a C team. And for a lot of north county parents (and orange county and pockets of LA), the outrageous fee is just pocket change. They can drop a few K on rec soccer without being ignorant or foolish...not my money so why do i care?


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Apr 20, 2017)

If you want to play with the kids from the neighborhood don't go pissing off all the neighbors.  It was short sighted of Surf to leave Pressido on bad terms.  Now their lower level teams have to travel to play league games.  They should have sucked it up for league play, all of 10 games, and went to OC or LA for tournaments if they really wanted higher competition.


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## espola (Apr 20, 2017)

full90 said:


> Presidio short-sighted in this vote, in my opinion. Surf moved leagues to give it's top teams better competition. (I thought Presidio told them years ago they couldn't split leagues...is that correct?) With the progression of ECNL and DA the top kids are in set leagues and it makes sense for Surf to keep other teams more local....as well as for Presidio to add a strong club with resources back to the mix.
> 
> I think everyone demonizes Surf parents as kool aid drinkers but i don't know any who have kids playing on a c or d level team who believe that their kid is destined for greatness. They know this is a fun activity for their kid and WANT to play more local with no dreams of grandeur. Surf coaches of c and d kids don't generally "promise anything more than development and having fun." That quote via a text message from a surf parent on a C team. And for a lot of north county parents (and orange county and pockets of LA), the outrageous fee is just pocket change. They can drop a few K on rec soccer without being ignorant or foolish...not my money so why do i care?


It was CSL told Surf they couldn't split leagues unless their best teams remained in CSL.  Presidio clubs didn't care.  In fact, when the DA teams appeared out of the blue in 2007 (or 2008?), both Surf and Nomads wanted to withdraw their Presidio teams after the scheduling deadline.  Presidio charged both clubs the established late-drop fines.  Surf just paid up, but Nomads appealed to the membership at the next monthly meeting and lost, facing questions like"If Surf pays up, why won't you?"


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## Fact (Apr 20, 2017)

full90 said:


> Presidio short-sighted in this vote, in my opinion. Surf moved leagues to give it's top teams better competition. (I thought Presidio told them years ago they couldn't split leagues...is that correct?) With the progression of ECNL and DA the top kids are in set leagues and it makes sense for Surf to keep other teams more local....as well as for Presidio to add a strong club with resources back to the mix.
> 
> I think everyone demonizes Surf parents as kool aid drinkers but i don't know any who have kids playing on a c or d level team who believe that their kid is destined for greatness. They know this is a fun activity for their kid and WANT to play more local with no dreams of grandeur. Surf coaches of c and d kids don't generally "promise anything more than development and having fun." That quote via a text message from a surf parent on a C team. And for a lot of north county parents (and orange county and pockets of LA), the outrageous fee is just pocket change. They can drop a few K on rec soccer without being ignorant or foolish...not my money so why do i care?


This is wrong.  Surf's top teams were already playing SCDCL/ECNL/DA.  The current administration decided to pull all their teams when Presidio changed the rules on poaching players and coaches to Surf's detriment.  They claimed it was for the players and coaches sighting that coaches with teams in Presidio and SCDCL would not be able to coordinate schedules between the 2 leagues and thus would miss a lot more games.  The whole situation was sad because they announced the decision only after teams were formed and parents paid.  I know many families that got stuck driving their 7 year olds 2+ hours for games because at that age there were less teams in SCDCL.


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## Fact (Apr 20, 2017)

I would be really interested in knowing what is meant by "Nicholas presented a compelling case for reinstating Surf Soccer Club."  Anyone have insight into what was so compelling?  Not only a new board member but also another attorney.  Where was Thunderbolt?


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## ESPNANALYST (Apr 20, 2017)

Fact said:


> I would be really interested in knowing what is meant by "Nicholas presented a compelling case for reinstating Surf Soccer Club."  Anyone have insight into what was so compelling?  Not only a new board member but also another attorney.  Where was Thunderbolt?


I think he dumb icon should go away and a "high five" icon should take its place


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## espola (Apr 21, 2017)

Fact said:


> I would be really interested in knowing what is meant by "Nicholas presented a compelling case for reinstating Surf Soccer Club."  Anyone have insight into what was so compelling?  Not only a new board member but also another attorney.  Where was Thunderbolt?


That news source rarely has a critical word to say about anything with "Surf" in it.


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## jsmaxwell (Apr 21, 2017)

Seems like a good business decision by Presidio Clubs. It doesn't require spite to see that the ECNL group has been aggressively taking market share away from non-ECNL clubs. Why help them by reducing travel requirements for lower Surf teams? Look at all the affiliate clubs. It wasn't enough that ECNL is a closed league. EGSL, particularly its closed spring league, was clearly at attempt to provide advantage to ECNL clubs and their affiliates at the expense of the non-ECNL clubs. Those who can make the Surf A team will still go for Surf, but those who don't will have to weigh playing on another Surf team and spending a lot of time driving to games vs playing for a Presidio team that plays in San Diego County. I think other clubs would be foolish to help any of the ECNL clubs.

Personally, I'm not buying any "what about the children" baloney. These are businesses with people's livelihoods at stake. Why help your biggest competitor?


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## watfly (Apr 21, 2017)

jsmaxwell said:


> Personally, I'm not buying any "what about the children" baloney.


You've made that painfully obvious.

Surf "made its bed and now has to lie in it", certainly I have no sympathy for them...they simply could have made a quiet exit instead of insulting the league on the way out.  I can appreciate Presidio's member clubs being reluctant to let Surf back in but that doesn't make the decision right.  How petty is it for "not for profits" to try to screw each other  out of market share in the name of "developing youth soccer players".

I'm not so naive that I don't understand that Club soccer is big business, but I'm also not so jaded to think that it shouldn't be about the kids.  If so many depend on Club soccer as a livelihood then man up and register your club as a for profit business and stop abusing the benefits of a 501(c)(3).

Fortunately, we all have the power to decide whether we want our child at a club that's about the kids or a club that's about the DOC's livelihood.  There are clubs of both types out there but unfortunately the former are getting fewer.


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## jsmaxwell (Apr 21, 2017)

watfly said:


> You've made that painfully obvious.
> 
> Surf "made its bed and now has to lie in it", certainly I have no sympathy for them...they simply could have made a quiet exit instead of insulting the league on the way out.  I can appreciate Presidio's member clubs being reluctant to let Surf back in but that doesn't make the decision right.  How petty is it for "not for profits" to try to screw each other  out of market share in the name of "developing youth soccer players".
> 
> ...


The idealism is touching. It might the helpful to recognize that registering an entity for non-profit tax status in no way implies that it is a charity.  It is just a tax minimization strategy. 

Club soccer isn't a "big business". Its very much small business. I'd be surprised to learn that anyone in club soccer makes serious money. I'd be surprised if any of them are making as much as someone who owns a single successful restaurant, but what do I know?

Wanting to make a living does not make someone a meanie. The ECNL clubs have had a strategy to make their clubs successful, but it was often purposely at the expense of other clubs. Its perfectly reasonable for those other clubs to decline to help Surf to improve its offering. If you live in north county and have a kid on a Surf team that would have gone Presidio, then go to a club that plays in Presidio if you don't want to drive. If you want your kid to wear the Surf shirt regardless and refuse to consider the other clubs, why should they help you?


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## watfly (Apr 21, 2017)

jsmaxwell said:


> The idealism is touching. It might the helpful to recognize that registering an entity for non-profit tax status in no way implies that it is a charity.  It is just a tax minimization strategy.
> 
> Club soccer isn't a "big business". Its very much small business. I'd be surprised to learn that anyone in club soccer makes serious money. I'd be surprised if any of them are making as much as someone who owns a single successful restaurant, but what do I know?
> 
> Wanting to make a living does not make someone a meanie. The ECNL clubs have had a strategy to make their clubs successful, but it was often purposely at the expense of other clubs. Its perfectly reasonable for those other clubs to decline to help Surf to improve its offering. If you live in north county and have a kid on a Surf team that would have gone Presidio, then go to a club that plays in Presidio if you don't want to drive. If you want your kid to wear the Surf shirt regardless and refuse to consider the other clubs, why should they help you?


Let me clarify since you jumped to a number of conclusions.  I never claimed that Clubs were charities, but thanks for letting me know what a 501(c)(3) is, since its been over 25 years since I passed the CPA exam.  Cumulatively I believe Club soccer is big business, but I admit that "big" is in the eye of the beholder.  However, there are many clubs with multi-million $ gross and many DOC's that make more than a restaurant owner that can't claim 501(c)(3) status because they are feeding children.   Granted, I personally wouldn't choose either as my source of income.   I say more power to the DOC's that can make a great living at it, I don't have a problem with it.  Even more power to those DOC's that earn a living and truly put the kid's interests first.  Just be honest about it and don't claim some altruistic motive when none actually exists.  Idealism, probably...honesty and credibility, for sure.


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## Kicknit22 (Apr 21, 2017)

I can't help but wonder who the DOC's are that make a good living and still put the interests of the kids first? Just curious who makes this list.


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## espola (Apr 21, 2017)

Kicknit22 said:


> I can't help but wonder who the DOC's are that make a good living and still put the interests of the kids first? Just curious who makes this list.


I would put Jean Willrich and Christine Drummond of Poway Vaqueros in that group, assuming that we agree on the "good living" factor.


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## ESPNANALYST (Apr 21, 2017)

Bobak
Bobak
Bobak


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## Eusebio (Apr 21, 2017)

Pretty much a textbook example of why you don't burn bridges with people in your local community.

While some of the better Surf B teams could help raise the competition level, the Surf C, D, E teams would add nothing to Presidio. The majority of the Surf lower teams are on the level of AAB, AAC bronze teams, which Presidio already has plenty of. So why force local teams to pay parking fees to subsidize the Polo fields if the competition is the same or worse? Especially when the club uses its DA/ECNL teams as a lure to poach players and coaches away from local teams to further expand their lower teams, I can see why those Presidio members would be reluctant. 

But there's also definitely a certain element of jealousy from the Presidio members because Surf has consistently been an organized club that's made some shred business moves that's allowed them to grow and expand in all age groups over the years. Surf is able to successfully poach players because they have an attractive product and they've achieved some real results to hang their hat on, especially on the girls side. 

But 4-5 years ago, hubris got to them and they started believing their own hype. They believed they actually developed elite players from the ground up and could say "FU" to Presidio and leave for greener pastures and greatness. But the Truth is Surf used their image and success of the top teams to recruit players that were developed from other Presidio local teams. This is why the boys teams at Surf have fallen off so much over the last 3-4 years. Playing in SCDSL in the younger ages has created a disconnect where a lot of central and south county 7-11 year-old players are just unable to play on Surf teams due to the constant travel north of 2-3 hour drives on the weekends. This has forced Surf to rely on developing their own players for the most part, which has been a failure on the boys side for the last 3-4 years. Their pool of players is mostly limited to north county del mar, carmel valley players.

The girls side hasn't taken a hit because IMO, the stronger girls players tend to reside in the north county area and with Surf being the only ECNL club in the county, they still had a strong enough gravitational pull to draw in top players. Whereas with the boys, the stronger players tend to reside in the central and south county, and there are several other DA clubs in the area. That said, this might be one of the reasons Surf wants to return to Presidio even for girls. Since ECNL is becoming a "B" team league and with multiple San Diego teams with Girls DA status, they're not going to have that automatic gravitational force anymore. They need to get back in Presidio so they can be more visible to local residents for recruiting purposes instead off in a distant league while Albion and Carlsbad harvest the local talent unopposed.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 23, 2017)

Eusebio said:


> Pretty much a textbook example of why you don't burn bridges with people in your local community.
> 
> While some of the better Surf B teams could help raise the competition level, the Surf C, D, E teams would add nothing to Presidio. The majority of the Surf lower teams are on the level of AAB, AAC bronze teams, which Presidio already has plenty of. So why force local teams to pay parking fees to subsidize the Polo fields if the competition is the same or worse? Especially when the club uses its DA/ECNL teams as a lure to poach players and coaches away from local teams to further expand their lower teams, I can see why those Presidio members would be reluctant.
> 
> ...


You had me until that last part.  Albion and Carlsbad might think that they are going to get to harvest the local talent but I haven't seen it happen yet.  One of my best friends has a daughter that plays for Albion on a team that will be GDA.  She loves her new kit and her new team but she would play for the top Surf team in the age group if she could right now.  Their plan is to try to move her over there when the recruiting ages start for them.  They have seen first hand what Surf has done for many players.

GDA is a reality but brand still maters.  Surf has the brand and in almost every age group they get first crack at the top players.  I'm sure that you understand why.  Good luck to you and yours.


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## Kicknit22 (Apr 23, 2017)

Hard to disagree with you MAP.  Surf brand is what it is, and it will take a long time for it to fade, if it ever does.  However, GDA does change the game a bit for them.  Just from a geographical standpoint alone, both Albion and Carlsbad are gaining by leaps and bounds.  They say that the team is the vehicle to success. It's up to the player to find the right vehicle. Surf has had the best lot in SoCal for as long as I know.  But now Albion and C-Bad will have a lot to offer.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 23, 2017)

Kicknit22 said:


> Hard to disagree with you MAP.  Surf brand is what it is, and it will take a long time for it to fade, if it ever does.  However, GDA does change the game a bit for them.  Just from a geographical standpoint alone, both Albion and Carlsbad are gaining by leaps and bounds.  They say that the team is the vehicle to success. It's up to the player to find the right vehicle. Surf has had the best lot in SoCal for as long as I know.  But now Albion and C-Bad will have a lot to offer.


Don't get me wrong.  I like Duggan.  He coached the top Carlsbad team in my daughters age group for a long time and he is an excellent coach.  I also think Noah Kooiman at Albion has few rivals to his ability to build a team and develop players.  All that I am saying is that Surf has a leg up nationally and players commute to play there and I don't see that changing.  Those clubs may gain players locally but it doesn't mean that they won't lose them when they get invited to join down the road.  Great players like to play with other great players for the most part. Surf has a U18 player that commutes from Santa Barbara and one that commutes from Ventura County!  These players are already committed to North Carolina and $C so there is a reason that they are willing to drive that far.  I hope that the other two programs are successful especially Albion.  By the way my friends daughter was recruited from another San Diego county club team so it isn't just Surf that does it.  I have no problem with it because people should do what they feel is best for their child.

Good luck to you and your player.


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## Eusebio (Apr 24, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> You had me until that last part.  Albion and Carlsbad might think that they are going to get to harvest the local talent but I haven't seen it happen yet.  One of my best friends has a daughter that plays for Albion on a team that will be GDA.  She loves her new kit and her new team but she would play for the top Surf team in the age group if she could right now.  Their plan is to try to move her over there when the recruiting ages start for them.  They have seen first hand what Surf has done for many players.
> 
> GDA is a reality but brand still maters.  Surf has the brand and in almost every age group they get first crack at the top players.  I'm sure that you understand why.  Good luck to you and yours.


If you're taking a current snapshot, then yes probably most top level girls player would still want to gravitate to Surf right now. My point was though, the landscape is changing. Albion and Carlsbad can now compete on a near 1:1 basis in terms of giving top players in the area the opportunity to play at the highest levels and get exposure. I think you're under-estimating how much Surf was able to benefit from having an ECNL monopoly for so long. Yes Surf will still enjoy some residual effects for a couple more years, but you can't assume their brand alone can keep attracting players without making some other adjustments. As I said Surf makes shrewd business decisions and are forward thinking, so I think part of their motivation of returning to Presidio was to avoid ceding too much of the potential talent pool to Albion/Carlsbad now that both have a GDA recruiting magnet. 

Besides branding can change. And it's already happened to Surf. About 5-6 years ago when they had only two teams in each age group, I remember when my son wore his Surf jersey to LA Galaxy games, he would get looks and would hear whispers of, "Hey, that kid plays for Surf!" and people would stop us to ask about the club. Also when you looked at a tournament bracket and saw a Surf team, you knew they were almost always a contender or the favorites. 

Flash forward 5 years,  now when someone sees a Surf jersey, they have to ask is it Surf Murrieta, Surf San Clemente, Surf Anaheim, Inland Empire Surf, PSPL Surf, or San Gabriel Valley Surf just in the local area. Nevermind the the out of area ones of Surf Hawaii, Surf Seattle, Surf New York, San Jose Surf, and Utah Surf. Combine this with the expansion of "C", "D" teams to the San Diego home branch, the rapid expansion meant they went from just two teams in a single age group to potentially *25-30 Surf teams in a single age group*. With maybe one actually qualifying as Elite and the rest ranging anywhere between Silver Elite and Bronze Rec. Over the last couple of years, I've seen some truly dreadful teams wear the Surf jerseys that never would have happened before and I've seen affiliates at times play nothing close to what was being taught in San Diego.

As a result, the Surf brand has been diluted and has lost some luster. Surf used to have this mystique where you had to be among the best in the area to play on a Surf team. If you saw a kid wearing a Surf jersey, it was safe to assume they were probably a pretty good soccer player. But due to brand dilution this simply is no longer the case. Btw, the same thing is starting to happen with Surf Cup where it's losing some of its "Best of the Best" luster due to expansion and lowering the bar. 

I'm pretty sure Surf is fully aware of the brand dilution and it was a calculated decision to expand in order to increase revenue and expand their operations.  I believe they're content as long as they maintain the prestige and performance of their elite teams, which is still a strong recruitment tool for players, coaches, and new affiliates.  They're probably okay that their brand has become a bit of a commodity as long as they can keep expanding the Surf empire. 

Point is though, it's foolish to assume Surf's brand alone will just keep attracting elite players over the next 4 years and beyond. Their brand has already morphed and Surf doesn't operate in a vacuum. Albion/Carlsbad have been pushing hard to close the gap and Albion in particular seems to be following in Surf's footsteps in commoditizing their brand in order to expand.  I do agree though Surf starts the next 2-3 years with home court advantage.


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## outside! (Apr 24, 2017)

The change in the perception of a Surf jersey started to happen around the time they switched from having "Surf" in large letters on the front of the jersey to "SoccerLoco". The "Surf" jersey era had some good looking kits. As soon as they switched to "SoccerLoco" kits, from a distance I would always confuse Surf teams with Oceanside Breakers.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 24, 2017)

All good points.  We will definitely see what works over the coming years.  The death of Surf has been desired/forecast for a long time and throughout every new challenge to their hegemony they have persisted.  I can tell you that playing for a top Surf team prepares you for college.  There is a reason that top players flock there from as far away as Las Vegas.  Good luck to your players going forward.


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## sandshark (Apr 24, 2017)

_The truth is all B teams and the huge majority of the A teams from all the SD clubs belong in Presidio anyway. But the reason the coaches and clubs push the out of town playing is so they can collect thousands of dollars more per year in out of town expenses "per diem" they pocket these expenses and usually tax free fee's from their teams, it works like a bonus program at the end of each month! 
 Everything in youth soccer always ends up being about how to get into the parents wallet. There is 100% zero reason for the majority of the clubs in SD county to drive to LA, OC or Norco every weekend to play teams that are the same caliber or below the teams in SD. It is all a huge scam! Unless your team is constantly finishing in the top 3 in Coast premier, CRL, SCDL , ECNL  and all the "show cases" or tournaments you are wasting your dam time and being scammed!

*These soccer clubs and coaches are becoming relentless on their greed to rob families of time and money! * 

 Lets get real here.. name 4 SD clubs that have more than 1-2 top A team National caliber teams on the girls side that are so up and above that they need to travel out of SD County to find real competition?  
 I am not saying you should not seek out tournaments to play up against some top caliber level of play, but when your chasing the empty promises every weekend and finishing below the top 3 in the majority of tournaments topped off with your team ending the year league finish below the top 3 you need to take a step back and put things in perspective. 
._


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## outside! (Apr 24, 2017)

All good points sandshark. In addition, there is not real reason for the elite teams to travel out of Southern California more than once or twice a year.


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## chargerfan (Apr 24, 2017)

sandshark said:


> _The truth is all B teams and the huge majority of the A teams from all the SD clubs belong in Presidio anyway. But the reason the coaches and clubs push the out of town playing is so they can collect thousands of dollars more per year in out of town expenses "per diem" they pocket these expenses and usually tax free fee's from their teams, it works like a bonus program at the end of each month!
> Everything in youth soccer always ends up being about how to get into the parents wallet. There is 100% zero reason for the majority of the clubs in SD county to drive to LA, OC or Norco every weekend to play teams that are the same caliber or below the teams in SD. It is all a huge scam! Unless your team is constantly finishing in the top 3 in Coast premier, CRL, SCDL , ECNL  and all the "show cases" or tournaments you are wasting your dam time and being scammed!
> 
> *These soccer clubs and coaches are becoming relentless on their greed to rob families of time and money! *
> ...


Sdda flight 1 for 2004 had sharks, notts, and rebels. If surf a and b,  Carlsbad, and Arsenal sd had stayed, it would be a good league with little travel.


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## sandshark (Apr 25, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> Sdda flight 1 for 2004 had sharks, notts, and rebels. If surf a and b,  Carlsbad, and Arsenal sd had stayed, it would be a good league with little travel.


It does not make the coaches money to stick with local leagues and miss out on the weekly per diem and it does not cater to the parents ego's to realize the majority of teams are all pretty equal.  
I know several coaches that have no interest in making the drive and selling a line of BS to their parents but If the other clubs are selling the BS and the families are going for it they have to join in and keep up. Also the these leagues demand that the clubs bring X amount of teams so in return you have now forced clubs and coaches into selling a line of BS to several families! It is a viscous circle and our kids are paying the price with a sacrificing their childhood sitting in cars for 6 - 8 hours a weekend along with the parents doing the same with their time! The only winner in all of this is the people making money at the expense of our children. 
_We can win or lose 10 miles from our home or 110 miles its the same game, teams and experience for most._


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 25, 2017)

outside! said:


> All good points sandshark. In addition, there is not real reason for the elite teams to travel out of Southern California more than once or twice a year.


I don't know.  My player's team ran into some pretty awesome out of state teams in New Jersey, Colorado, Chicago, Seattle, Portland (Nike Manchester Cup at Nike headquarters) and Norcal.  There were maybe 3-7 teams locally that were competitive with them.  It would have been pretty boring to play only those teams and not a true measure of strength nationally.  Not to mention in my player's age group only once in 5 years was the national champion a team from California.  The other valuable part of it was she got used to traveling with a team like in college and being away from mom and dad for up to a week.  Those life lessons are still playing dividends.  She knows how to manage her studies and rest even when on the road without me having to remind her.  She is able to manage her social activities while maintaining an extremely high gpa and a full time soccer gig.  Finally, I have to say both of think that the hours spent commuting to a seemingly endless number of games and tournaments were our bonding time that both of us miss today.  Occasionally she still even asks for me to drive her home from a college game just so that we can talk.  That is priceless in my book.

Think what you want about travel but for elite players it is a reality and a necessity.  And it's pretty awesome for us parents too.


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## chargerfan (Apr 25, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I don't know.  My player's team ran into some pretty awesome out of state teams in New Jersey, Colorado, Chicago, Seattle, Portland (Nike Manchester Cup at Nike headquarters) and Norcal.  There were maybe 3-7 teams locally that were competitive with them.  It would have been pretty boring to play only those teams and not a true measure of strength nationally.  Not to mention in my player's age group only once in 5 years was the national champion a team from California.  The other valuable part of it was she got used to traveling with a team like in college and being away from mom and dad for up to a week.  Those life lessons are still playing dividends.  She knows how to manage her studies and rest even when on the road without me having to remind her.  She is able to manage her social activities while maintaining an extremely high gpa and a full time soccer gig.  Finally, I have to say both of think that the hours spent commuting to a seemingly endless number of games and tournaments were our bonding time that both of us miss today.  Occasionally she still even asks for me to drive her home from a college game just so that we can talk.  That is priceless in my book.
> 
> Think what you want about travel but for elite players it is a reality and a necessity.  And it's pretty awesome for us parents too.


This is definitely a necessity for top high school talent, but not for the majority of girls. And definitely not for 7-13 year olds. It also makes it hard for working parents and low-income parents in San Diego to have their kids playing on a decent team.


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## Multi Sport (Apr 25, 2017)

espola said:


> How high was your nose in the air when you typed that?  Were you able to see the keyboard at all?


Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's wrong. It's probably closer to the truth then you'd like to admit.

On the girls side Surf had very clubs to compete with. I would say RSF Attack but was but they even left to go to SCDSL. 

To me, it seems as though the folks who run the Presidio league are being short sighted.


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## sandshark (Apr 25, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I don't know.  My player's team ran into some pretty awesome out of state teams in New Jersey, Colorado, Chicago, Seattle, Portland (Nike Manchester Cup at Nike headquarters) and Norcal.  There were maybe 3-7 teams locally that were competitive with them.  It would have been pretty boring to play only those teams and not a true measure of strength nationally.  Not to mention in my player's age group only once in 5 years was the national champion a team from California.  The other valuable part of it was she got used to traveling with a team like in college and being away from mom and dad for up to a week.  Those life lessons are still playing dividends.  She knows how to manage her studies and rest even when on the road without me having to remind her.  She is able to manage her social activities while maintaining an extremely high gpa and a full time soccer gig.  Finally, I have to say both of think that the hours spent commuting to a seemingly endless number of games and tournaments were our bonding time that both of us miss today.  Occasionally she still even asks for me to drive her home from a college game just so that we can talk.  That is priceless in my book.
> 
> Think what you want about travel but for elite players it is a reality and a necessity.  And it's pretty awesome for us parents too.


"Us parents" ha ha your are a perfect example!

I never argue anyone's opinion on what they consider to be quality time with their children or how they want their children to look back on their childhood memories as they get older. 

 We have done exactly what you wrote out above, my kids have also played and traveled all over the USA and yes they enjoyed the journey. But we as a family do not think the hours away, time and money spent is worth it. We see things very clearly and do not hide anything when really talking about this sport, clubs and coaches. We are very realistic in our perception of youth soccer at the highest level. 
 Yes we also have experience on the National level, my girl played in the National league and "college showcases" and more..and there again it provided maybe 3-4 super teams worth the time and travel! Of course we enjoyed listening to her fun times she had as she did travel around the USA with her team, but after a couple trips of doing this she was pretty seasoned on how to handle herself. We also have had some wonderful one on one times together in our car to and from training sessions and out of town games but in my opinion we also can find the same if not better time spent @ the beach, lake, back yard BBQ, night out at the movies, friends and family vacations and the list goes on and on! 
 We do not need a sport dictating our every weekend and 4 days per week to build bonds and family memories.  I myself do not associate any part of my great relationship with my kids or wife to youth soccer! We do whoever think it provided some very important lessons on hard work and rewards but it also provided lessons on how fake and shitty people can truly be.

You sound like you really enjoyed your time spent in youth soccer and I think that is awesome, for some it is the perfect fit for their family! We did also enjoy parts of it and we might enjoy youth soccer again but NEVER at the elite level of time and money spent chasing the line of BS the coaches and clubs spew out! just my .2


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 25, 2017)

sandshark said:


> "Us parents" ha ha your are a perfect example!
> 
> I never argue anyone's opinion on what they consider to be quality time with their children or how they want their children to look back on their childhood memories as they get older.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry that you did not seem to see the value in it.  For my player her athletic scholarship alone more than paid for what we spent over the years.  We spend less now on a top 25 academic university than all but her last year of soccer (which was free) and her first two years (which had no travel). We also took plenty of non soccer related vacations to many places in the world and she got to travel to even more places on US Soccer's dime.  My player played in the ECNL and it sounds like yours did not and to be quite honest with you outside of the Southwest conference it was rare that they got matched up against a cupcake.  You state that your player maybe played against 3-4 teams that were worth the time per year.  My player's team would typically play 12-18 out of state/area teams a year and maybe 1-3 weren't good games.  It sounds like we just had different experiences.

The time spent was valuable to my player and that was valuable to me.  She is a starter on a top college team and enjoying college and all that it has to offer.  Travel soccer has given her a ton and to be quite honest if she had played for the closest club to her she wouldn't even be close to the player that she is now (one of her best friends from her high school team played local for a low level club team that played locally in CSL and goes to the same college with no built in peer group and $32k a year out of her parents pocket).  She also had several friends with similar gpa's (over 4.0) that didn't even get into any of her final 3 schools that she had scholarship offers for.  Travel is a sacrifice but there is a payoff for any girls that are willing to work for it.  Time on the road and away from home is part of the sacrifice.  I like the life lesson.


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## clueless parent (Apr 25, 2017)

" Travel is a sacrifice but there is a payoff for any girls that are willing to work for it."

MAP, I am blown away by your daughter's ECNL travel destinations and the concomitant expenses.  I can understand why she developed traveling skills without a parent.   For many In SoCal, a single trip for an athlete traveling alone would be financially impossible.  Your daughter was lucky to have parents that understood the big picture and financed it!  Good job!


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 25, 2017)

clueless parent said:


> " Travel is a sacrifice but there is a payoff for any girls that are willing to work for it."
> 
> MAP, I am blown away by your daughter's ECNL travel destinations and the concomitant expenses.  I can understand why she developed traveling skills without a parent.   For many In SoCal, a single trip for an athlete traveling alone would be financially impossible.  Your daughter was lucky to have parents that understood the big picture and financed it!  Good job!


The travelling wasn't cheap but it wasn't over the top.  She averaged about two plane trips a year from U14-U17.  No plane trips for U18.  At least 2 trips to Vegas and 3 to Phoenix per year.  Here is the deal.  The trips including room and our cut of the coaches costs were between $800-$900 per trip.  We booked plane tickets well in advance and the girls were 4 to a room.  We only traveled with them to Colorado (her 2nd year), Portland (for the Nike tournament and we have family in Portland) and the Vegas and Phoenix trips.  My most expensive two seasons were U16 and U17 were they went to New Jersey and Seattle in the same season and I spent approximately $4800.  That is a lot but I spend less now on her tuition thanks to the money I spent. And to be clear for her entire club career from U10-U18 I spent a little more than $30k which is less than one year's tuition, fees, books, room and board at her college.

Pay for play sucks.  We are blessed that we were able to manage it.  I always would ask my player before every season was she sure she wanted to play because it was a one year commitment and if I was going to write a check she was in for the full year.  Weirdly that is probably one of the best things for her athletic career that I ever did.


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## sandshark (Apr 25, 2017)

First of all don't be sorry ha ha and secondly you sound very proud and very satisfied with your family's experience and that is great! Like I said "for some it is a perfect fit" we hope our DD does what makes her happy in life, playing soccer in college or not is fine by us. 
  We have never been the family that had tunnel vision that college is the all mighty answer to success and life happiness. And lets be honest..ECNL is like the rest of them some really solid teams and some WTH was that teams. 

 We actually have two professional athletes in our family and I promise I know more about what it takes to make a professional athlete than 99% of every half wit, hack soccer coach and most of the parents. We did it with a calm low pressure approach and lots of very good memories. 
_
We as parents managed our children's childhood to always make sure they had a social life and a well rounded open outlook on sports and friends_. 

Burn out is a major factor and chasing your dreams using your child to fulfill them never works in the end. 
We really enjoyed watching my kids do what they truly loved in sports but at the same time our approach has always been moderation and that is something the US soccer world knows NOTHING about! And it seems they have a huge following of parents that are so caught up in the hype that they are blowing through the years, months, weeks and days chasing the hype! I hate to think of how many will look back and wonder why no body pulled them aside and told them the to keep things in perspective! just my .2


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## Nut Meg (May 2, 2017)

espola said:


> I would put Jean Willrich and Christine Drummond of Poway Vaqueros in that group, assuming that we agree on the "good living" factor.


Way to jinx the Vaqueros...


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## fiveforetee (May 2, 2017)

Nut Meg said:


> Way to jinx the Vaqueros...


Anyone know what happened there?


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## outside! (May 2, 2017)

fiveforetee said:


> Anyone know what happened there?


I have no idea what happened, but Shawni Flint is a great trainer and the Vaqueros are lucky to have her as the new Interim DOC. I hope they make it permanent.


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## espola (May 2, 2017)

outside! said:


> I have no idea what happened, but Shawni Flint is a great trainer and the Vaqueros are lucky to have her as the new Interim DOC. I hope they make it permanent.


Where did JW go?


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## fiveforetee (May 2, 2017)

espola said:


> Where did JW go?


I hear JW, his son Michael, and a couple other coaches left.


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## espola (May 2, 2017)

fiveforetee said:


> I hear JW, his son Michael, and a couple other coaches left.


My feeling about both the Willriches is that they were too good for a small community club and we were lucky to have them.  I know one person who ran for the BoD just to he could push for JW as coach for his kids.  I hope he got a better-paying job somewhere close by.


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## swilly858 (Jun 15, 2017)

JW IS STARTING A NEW LEAGUE!!!!! GET ON BOARD!!! MORE INFO COMING SOON.........


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## chargerfan (Jun 16, 2017)

swilly858 said:


> JW IS STARTING A NEW LEAGUE!!!!! GET ON BOARD!!! MORE INFO COMING SOON.........


Do you mean a new club? Either way, both are unnecessary.


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## *GOBEARGO* (Jun 16, 2017)

Off subject a bit but those folks with teams in San Diego will be happy that Temecula United has jumped ship (24 teams) and moved to the SCDSL. A little less travel on the weekends.


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## NumberTen (Jun 16, 2017)

I think that this was the main reason that Surf wanted back in Presidio.  I always felt a general annoyance with having to travel so much for the lower level teams.


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## espola (Jun 16, 2017)

*GOBEARGO* said:


> Off subject a bit but those folks with teams in San Diego will be happy that Temecula United has jumped ship (24 teams) and moved to the SCDSL. A little less travel on the weekends.


A little less travel for whom?


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## *GOBEARGO* (Jun 16, 2017)

espola said:


> A little less travel for whom?


Did you read the post? TEAMS IN SAN DIEGO.


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## NumberTen (Jun 16, 2017)

espola said:


> A little less travel for whom?


San Diego Teams


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## rainbow_unicorn (Jun 17, 2017)

Temecula is the red-headed step child that neither LA or SD want to claim as their own.


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## swilly858 (Jun 17, 2017)

swilly858 said:


> JW IS STARTING A NEW CLUB!!!!! GET ON BOARD!!! MORE INFO COMING SOON.........


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## swilly858 (Jun 17, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> Do you mean a new club? Either way, both are unnecessary.


Yes I meant new Club. http://www.powayfootballacademy.com/


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## chargerfan (Jun 17, 2017)

swilly858 said:


> Yes I meant new Club. http://www.powayfootballacademy.com/


Vaqueros hasn't had a top level team in years. The best players in the area go to sharks, surf or sdsc. This club is dead on arrival.


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## *GOBEARGO* (Jun 17, 2017)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Temecula is the red-headed step child that neither LA or SD want to claim as their own.


Douche comment of the day-congrats


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## swilly858 (Jun 17, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> Vaqueros hasn't had a top level team in years. The best players in the area go to sharks, surf or sdsc. This club is dead on arrival.


Yes you are right. Three of the Vaquero girls Flight II 07 Girls jumped ship and are SDFORCEFC ( Arsenal ) New name and Great Leadership.


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## SocalSoccerMom (Jun 17, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> Vaqueros hasn't had a top level team in years. The best players in the area go to sharks, surf or sdsc. This club is dead on arrival.


Not all clubs are catered to the best players. It sounds like Vaqueos have done some good work to develop players for bigger clubs who can't do that themselves.


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## Fact (Jun 17, 2017)

swilly858 said:


> Yes you are right. Three of the Vaquero girls Flight II 07 Girls jumped ship and are SDFORCEFC ( Arsenal ) New name and Great Leadership.


I hope they have hot moms.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Jun 17, 2017)

*GOBEARGO* said:


> Douche comment of the day-congrats


Sorry, totally didn't mean to offend anyone.  Was looking at a map and just couldn't figure out if it's considered part of LA/OC or SD.


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## chargerfan (Jun 17, 2017)

SocalSoccerMom said:


> Not all clubs are catered to the best players. It sounds like Vaqueos have done some good work to develop players for bigger clubs who can't do that themselves.


They had a really good 03/04 team years back and those girls have all landed at sdsc, sharks, and surf I believe. I think they also had a decent 05/06 team that all ended up at sdsc. I agree with what you are saying about the smaller clubs developing players who then go on to bigger and greener pastures.


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## Fact (Jun 19, 2017)

Fact said:


> I hope they have hot moms.


@TCD I don't think you've been around long enough to understand my joke/comment about Force.  Do some research on why families have left after the start of the season and get back to me.


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## damnnn (Oct 22, 2017)

Socal United said:


> Everyone can come blame all sorts of people, at the end of the day it was this meeting where Surf essentially said they were too good for everyone that still bothers many of these people that are voting.  Whether right or wrong, a lot of these same people are still the presidio reps and remember.  Makeaplay, you are right on the girls side but not necessarily on the boys side.  I think it can be resolved, but will take an effort made by JH to get this sorted.  No reason that it shouldn't happen, but the soccer community is not big when it comes to things like this.


the only thing that JH wants to take an effort at (and seemingly successful from all reports and indications) is the VP of Administration, she appears to be OK with it too


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## damnnn (Oct 22, 2017)

please englishman, back to the pub, governor is waiting for you


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## Striker17 (Oct 22, 2017)

Waiting for the forum shut down in 3..2..1...


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## Multi Sport (Oct 22, 2017)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Temecula is the red-headed step child that neither LA or SD want to claim as their own.


And that's why the 15 is packed every weekend with cars heading to Temecula?


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## Socal United (Oct 22, 2017)

Multi Sport said:


> And that's why the 15 is packed every weekend with cars heading to Temecula?


Galway, Norco, and less expensive housing....


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## CaliKlines (Oct 22, 2017)

Multi Sport said:


> And that's why the 15 is packed every weekend with cars heading to Temecula?





Socal United said:


> Galway, Norco, and less expensive housing....


Ponte, South Coast, Wilson Creek, Renzoni, and the list goes on....


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## Justafan (Oct 22, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> They had a really good 03/04 team years back and those girls have all landed at sdsc, sharks, and surf I believe. I think they also had a decent 05/06 team that all ended up at sdsc. I agree with what you are saying about the smaller clubs developing players who then go on to bigger and greener pastures.


I remember that 03/04 team making the quarters at state cup many moons ago, I always wondered what happened with that team.


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## MYOB (Oct 22, 2017)

They split up to SDSC, Surf, Arsenal-SD and CSC


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## Socal United (Oct 23, 2017)

CaliKlines said:


> Ponte, South Coast, Wilson Creek, Renzoni, and the list goes on....


Yeah, I was trying to leave those out.  I was F & B at Thornton's many moons ago, those were the days...


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