# Galaxy U15 champions?



## Myleftfoot (Jun 4, 2018)

there's a social media video going around with the Galaxy U15's screaming "campeones, campeones". I don't see anything from US Soccer Academy that gives them a recognition about wining a championship.


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## jpeter (Jun 4, 2018)

They had the most points in the SW division for the season.

Other than that there is no playoffs or championsips in u15 so to claim as league champions is simply not true since there are several other conferences they did not play or compete in any manner.

in the end did any of there players get better as the season went along?   Only watched a couple part games and there last match couldn't tell you a galaxy player that stood out. The player of the game was on the opposing team IMO.


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## Distraction (Jun 4, 2018)

They were the top team in their division, which is enough for most people to call themselves champions. At 80 points and 2.7586 points per game they lead all the U15 teams in the US. In the MLS they call that the Supporter's Shield. I think both of those reasons are pretty much good enough for a bunch of 15 year-olds to be able to scream Champions if they want to.


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## mahrez (Jun 4, 2018)

Standings and championships are not the same.

Ussda conferences play each other to determine champions in certain age groups.

supporters shield MLS? Or the points/gp is not the same for da teams.  Conferences play different number of games (15-30) and since there no playoffs teams don't just play for points.

When the Galaxy actually win a tournament like Dallas cup or anything that has playoffs yes calling them champions are apporiate.

Should we have every age group that doesn't have standings from u12-15 be crowned champions if they acuure the most any of points in each conference even though they don't play each other, or are even competiting for the most points?  Of course not....ussda doesn't want this and will let the parties know I'm sure


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## coachrefparent (Jun 4, 2018)

Wow, some people have issues. 

A philosophical discussion about whether they are technically Capeones or not under whatever standard applies=OK. Everyone I know considers a team that wins their league in any sport,  to be league champions, (unless there is a successive playoff of those same teams.)

A discussion about whether 15 year old boys that won their league flight/division/whatever (which apparently they clearly did), should be on social media yelling campeones=LAME.


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## JJP (Jun 4, 2018)

With all the top notch players they’ve picked off, they should be champs of at least the SW division.


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## Socc3rFan (Jun 4, 2018)

Is all the hatred towards the 15 year old kids that probably hear it from the sidelines for playing for Galaxy or is it directed towards Galaxy?    It seems that regardless of its a win or a loss it will never be good enough for certain parents because of the name in their jersey.  Man I feel for these kids; win, lose, or draw there will always be someone that thinks it’s not good enough.  They should have won, they should have won by more, they don’t dominate the entire game, they seem not to be developing (?????),  Seems that they had a good season and probably are happy that soccer and school are nearly done so they can enough the summer. 

Maybe they academy’s can organize the top 2 or 3 teams in each division to have a tourney to determine to top team in the US.


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## JJP (Jun 4, 2018)

Socc3rFan said:


> Is all the hatred towards the 15 year old kids that probably hear it from the sidelines for playing for Galaxy or is it directed towards Galaxy?


What are u talking about?  There’s one set of posts saying there’s no official championship and another set of posts saying they won the SW division so they’re at least champs of SW.


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## younothat (Jun 4, 2018)

Congratulations to the galaxy players and coaching staff for doing well throughout the regular season with the age group. 

Southwest Division like most in DA has some competition near the top of the division but then it seems to fall off  after which is unfortunate.    I really think  a pro/rel system would help in that regard starring at this age group or something but it seems like it will never happen, establishment keep there teams year after year  even when there less than  <1 point per game played. (bottom 4 for example).   Same teams year after year so things seem stale, bringing in new teams would make things more exciting for everybody IMO.

You can split hairs about who's calling out something but the rules & regs are published and pretty clear about how ussda awards championships,  I have yet to see them do that without some post season play or playoffs but have things changed?


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## JJP (Jun 4, 2018)

younothat said:


> Southwest Division like most in DA has some competition near the top of the division but then it seems to fall off  after which is unfortunate.    I really think  a pro/rel system would help in that regard starring at this age group or something but it seems like it will never happen, establishment keep there teams year after year  even when there less than  <1 point per game played. (bottom 4 for example).   Same teams year after year so things seem stale, bringing in new teams would make things more exciting for everybody IMO.


Relegation ain’t gonna work because there’s 2 classes of teams, the pro teams LAG and LAFC, and the club teams.  The pro teams are always going to be able to pick off either 1) best players or 2) kids who are good and will work the hardest because they have dreams of going pro.  The club teams can and do lose top players they have trained and developed to LAG (and I’m sure LAFC will pick off talented players starting next year).

Relegation should be punishment for teams that fail to develop players, and promotion should reward teams that have successfully developed talent.  But it’s possible for club teams in SW Academy division to develop top players, lose them to LAG or LAFC, and then be relegated.

The accumulation and monopolization of talent is the reason why LAG has been on top of the SW division for so long, and promotion/relegation system will have no impact on the ability of pro teams to suck up the best players.


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## mahrez (Jun 5, 2018)

JJP said:


> Relegation ain’t gonna work because there’s 2 classes of teams, the pro teams LAG and LAFC, and the club teams.  The pro teams are always going to be able to pick off either 1) best players or 2) kids who are good and will work the hardest because they have dreams of going pro.  The club teams can and do lose top players they have trained and developed to LAG (and I’m sure LAFC will pick off talented players starting next year).
> 
> Relegation should be punishment for teams that fail to develop players, and promotion should reward teams that have successfully developed talent.  But it’s possible for club teams in SW Academy division to develop top players, lose them to LAG or LAFC, and then be relegated.
> 
> The accumulation and monopolization of talent is the reason why LAG has been on top of the SW division for so long, and promotion/relegation system will have no impact on the ability of pro teams to suck up the best players.


The ability for pro teams to pull in the most amount of players will likely aways be in their favor but that's not the point of a promotion/regulation system.

Like you stated Relegation should be punishment for teams that fail to develop players, well when the bottom 4 teams have a combined point total that is about the same as a single team on the top there is a huge in balance problem like in u15.   

Why not let some teams from other leagues say the top 4 from national cup, CRL, or whatever apply so the competition get better for league?  The 3-4 teams that didn't performance good enough can go back to the club circuits and try again next year if they do well there. 

Pro/real will help the MLS side's in the long run and all the clubs will have a actual pathway based on performance not just politics or connections. 

The lack of  consist competition in DA at the top end in really shows when teams play in tournament with international, MX, or open comp.   Man City cup is a perfect example, besides a single team lafc & galaxy ussda didn't fair well at all vs the other sides from anywhere else and it wasn't even close most of the time. 

Time for change, the status quo and establishement just are not getting it done,  reward the teams that perform on the field and regulate the one that don't, simple, stop giving teams a pass year after year when they can't even muster a single point per game, the bottom 3 teams in this age group for example.


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## Wez (Jun 5, 2018)

mahrez said:


> The lack of consist competition in DA at the top end in really shows when teams play in tournament with international, MX, or open comp. Man City cup is a perfect example, besides a single team lafc & galaxy ussda didn't fair well at all vs the other sides from anywhere else and it wasn't even close most of the time.


I'm confused, didn't two of your 3 teams make finals and the 05s won?


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## JJP (Jun 5, 2018)

mahrez said:


> Why not let some teams from other leagues say the top 4 from national cup, CRL, or whatever apply so the competition get better for league?  The 3-4 teams that didn't performance good enough can go back to the club circuits and try again next year if they do well there.


Either u or someone else who knows more about DA was saying teams have to meet a bunch of requirements to qualify for DA (coaching licenses, minimum field requirements, coaching education etc.). Teams investing money to qualify for DA r not gonna be happy to get bounced out, especially if the players they developed got picked off.

The teams that you identified that won CRL or National Cup may not qualify for DA, but now they are gonna get promoted in?  I’m pretty sure the teams that spent time and money qualifying for DA will be upset if some club gets in via promotion and doesn’t have to jump through all the DA hoops.  And if you require the promoted teams to meet DA qualifications, are they gonna do it?  There are teams that have chosen not to go the DA route because it doesn’t work for them.

And what’s the point of churning the bottom of the DA pool?  Because that’s what’s gonna happen, you’re going to switch out one set of bottom tier teams for another.

The issue is the DA teams and non-DA teams are in different ecosystems, and promoting/relegating teams from the DA universe to the non-DA universe requires them to switch ecosystems, and that switch brings its own set of complicated issues and problems.


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## JJP (Jun 5, 2018)

mahrez said:


> The lack of  consist competition in DA at the top end in really shows when teams play in tournament with international, MX, or open comp.   Man City cup is a perfect example, besides a single team lafc & galaxy ussda didn't fair well at all vs the other sides from anywhere else and it wasn't even close most of the time.


You’re complaining about the lack of competition in the DA league when u guys pickoff most of the best players?  C’mon.

And the reason the US sucks vs. international competition is that the US development system for soccer sucks and has turned soccer into a grind.  Top athletes that can play multiple sports abandon soccer at huge rates.  Even the best DA teams, the level of athleticism is just so low.  The US national team is so incredibly slow and unathletic I don’t care what kind of coaching you give those chumps (except Pulisic) they are gonna suck.


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## mahrez (Jun 5, 2018)

Wez said:


> I'm confused, didn't two of your 3 teams make finals and the 05s won?


Yes but the competition level & teams was basically the same as the league, LA United is a good local club  but there not Man City, Chivas, etc.   Same thing happen at man City last year when the da teams played the international teams.   It's clear to see what happens even with the best local da financed teams try to compete on a bigger stage, they are lacking in technical skills overall compared to the better comp.


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## boomer (Jun 5, 2018)

JJP said:


> Either u or someone else who knows more about DA was saying teams have to meet a bunch of requirements to qualify for DA (coaching licenses, minimum field requirements, coaching education etc.). Teams investing money to qualify for DA r not gonna be happy to get bounced out, especially if the players they developed got picked off.
> 
> The teams that you identified that won CRL or National Cup may not qualify for DA, but now they are gonna get promoted in?  I’m pretty sure the teams that spent time and money qualifying for DA will be upset if some club gets in via promotion and doesn’t have to jump through all the DA hoops.  And if you require the promoted teams to meet DA qualifications, are they gonna do it?  There are teams that have chosen not to go the DA route because it doesn’t work for them.
> 
> ...


A microcosm of the pro/rel challenges at the pro level. How do you convince owners of MLS franchises, that invested millions to "buy-in" to the league, to open the ecosystem allowing lower-division teams to promote up and potentially bump their organization down to a lower league without the same inflow of money for TV rights, marketability, and such?

Yes, plenty of arguments for pro/rel and how the market would take care of those issues over time, but I'm not the one that needs to be sold on the idea. I'm conceptually for pro/rel, but I'm also a realist. Convincing AEG and the other big stake holders in MLS? I just don't see it happening...ever.

Back to the point...I don't see it happening in DA either, for similar reasons. The stake-holders wanna hold onto their stake. True player development be damned.


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## boomer (Jun 5, 2018)

JJP said:


> You’re complaining about the lack of competition in the DA league when u guys pickoff most of the best players?  C’mon.
> 
> And the reason the US sucks vs. international competition is that the US development system for soccer sucks and has turned soccer into a grind.  Top athletes that can play multiple sports abandon soccer at huge rates.  Even the best DA teams, the level of athleticism is just so low.  The US national team is so incredibly slow and unathletic I don’t care what kind of coaching you give those chumps (except Pulisic) they are gonna suck.


You call it picking off. I call it promoting the better players and bringing them into a pro environment. What's wrong with that? Isn't that the way it should happen? Do high-quality, local academies in Madrid bitch and complain about their players being poached when they get pulled into Real Madrid or Athletico academies? Doubt it.


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## JJP (Jun 5, 2018)

boomer said:


> You call it picking off. I call it promoting the better players and bringing them into a pro environment. What's wrong with that? Isn't that the way it should happen? Do high-quality, local academies in Madrid bitch and complain about their players being poached when they get pulled into Real Madrid or Athletico academies? Doubt it.


I don’t have any problems with it.

I’m just saying, don’t complain about the lack of competition when every year you are picking off the best players from said competitors.

And outside the US, clubs get transfer fees when their youth players get poached, so its not the same circumstance.  If you pay its sex, if you don’t pay its rape.


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## boomer (Jun 5, 2018)

JJP said:


> And outside the US, clubs get transfer fees when their youth players get poached, so its not the same circumstance.


Yep. Very good point. If it's about $$$, and we all know it is, then compensate downstream. Everyone wins.


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## Wez (Jun 5, 2018)

mahrez said:


> Yes but the competition level & teams was basically the same as the league, LA United is a good local club  but there not Man City, Chivas, etc.   Same thing happen at man City last year when the da teams played the international teams.   It's clear to see what happens even with the best local da financed teams try to compete on a bigger stage, they are lacking in technical skills overall compared to the better comp.


The US competes against kids whose #1 sport is Soccer.  We lose our best athletes to football/baseball/basketball, not sure how to fix that.


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## Paul Spacey (Jun 5, 2018)

Wez said:


> The US competes against kids whose #1 sport is Soccer.  We lose our best athletes to football/baseball/basketball, not sure how to fix that.


There are plenty of kids here in the US who choose soccer as their #1 (and only) sport. Specialization isn't so much of an issue; early engagement (which is different to specialization) and attaining ball mastery at a young age is vital but that's another debate.

The 'athlete' thing doesn't really stand up. The US already has players at the national level who can compete with their international counterparts on an athletic level. The problem is that US players cannot currently compete (individually or as a group) with the top players/teams in the world when it comes to decision making, composure under pressure and creativity among other things. There is still a big gap (aside from outliers like Pulisic) in that regard and this is the issue that US Soccer has to fix if it wants the USMNT to truly compete and challenge on the elite world stage.


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## Paul Spacey (Jun 5, 2018)

Wez said:


> The US competes against kids whose #1 sport is Soccer.  We lose our best athletes to football/baseball/basketball, not sure how to fix that.


There are plenty of kids here in the US who choose soccer as their #1 (and only) sport. Specialization isn't so much of an issue; early engagement (which is different to specialization) and attaining ball mastery at a young age is vital but that's another debate.

The 'athlete' thing doesn't really stand up. The US already has players at the national level who can compete with their international counterparts on an athletic level. The problem is that US players cannot currently compete (individually or as a group) with the top players/teams in the world when it comes to decision making, composure under pressure and creativity among other things. There is still a big gap (aside from outliers like Pulisic) in that regard and this is the issue that US Soccer has to fix if it wants the USMNT to truly compete and challenge on the elite world stage.


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## JJP (Jun 5, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> The 'athlete' thing doesn't really stand up. The US already has players at the national level who can compete with their international counterparts on an athletic level. The problem is that US players cannot currently compete (individually or as a group) with the top players/teams in the world when it comes to decision making, composure under pressure and creativity among other things. There is still a big gap (aside from outliers like Pulisic) in that regard and this is the issue that US Soccer has to fix if it wants the USMNT to truly compete and challenge on the elite world stage.


Completely disagree.

The US has nobody who matches up athletically with a Neymar, diMaria, Kun Aguero, Tevez, Kylian Mbappe, Coutinho, Martial, Ousmane Dembele.  All the top countries have guys that are freak or near freak athletes with soccer skills.

Name one player on the US national team that is a freak athlete. You can’t because we don’t have one. It was very obvious to my eyes that we had one legit athlete, the striker from Stanford, one good but lightweight athlete with high soccer IQ and skills in Pulisic, and nobody else was special.

There are so many 6 feet or less club basketball players, if they dedicated themselves to soccer, the academy teams would look completely different.  And that’s just one sport.  I can’t even count the number of fantastic athletes with soccer bodies who are playing as receivers or cornerbacks on their high school football team.


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## Paul Spacey (Jun 5, 2018)

JJP said:


> Completely disagree.
> 
> The US has nobody who matches up athletically with a Neymar, diMaria, Kun Aguero, Tevez, Kylian Mbappe, Coutinho, Martial, Ousmane Dembele.  All the top countries have guys that are freak or near freak athletes with soccer skills.
> 
> ...


I completely understand your viewpoint and why you have it; it’s a common view among US sports fans but it’s patently false. Is Pulisic an exceptional athlete? Not really. Does he have great quality on the ball and a very good soccer brain? Yes, and this is what you need at the elite level to compete (among other things).

Ask Xavi and Iniesta (two of the greatest midfield players of all time) if being a ‘freak athlete’ is necessary to make it at the elite international level. 

Yedlin is an obvious US player who also happens to be an extremely gifted athlete (but he absolutely does not have what Xavi or Iniesta do between their ears). Have a read of this article, it might help:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.starsandstripesfc.com/platform/amp/2016/7/5/12089038/are-you-sick-of-hearing-if-only-americas-best-athletes-played-soccer


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## coachrefparent (Jun 5, 2018)

The best soccer players in the world are the best athletes + the best skilled soccer player + the best mental soccer minds. In the U.S. the best athletes will never play soccer (why would they?).  So the best the U.S. can get is 2 out of 3.


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## JJP (Jun 5, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> I completely understand your viewpoint and why you have it; it’s a common view among US sports fans but it’s patently false. Is Pulisic an exceptional athlete? Not really. Does he have great quality on the ball and a very good soccer brain? Yes, and this is what you need at the elite level to compete (among other things).


But Pulisic played with freak athletes.  Pulisic is one of those guys who can take advantage of the space that freak athletes create and make things happen.  It’s not a coincidence that Bosrussia Dortmund went downhill after Ousmane Dembele left for Barcelona.  It’s not a coincidence that Pulisic’s numbers and effectiveness went down after Dembele left.



> Ask Xavi and Iniesta (two of the greatest midfield players of all time) if being a ‘freak athlete’ is necessary to make it at the elite international level.


Again, these guys are good players that look great when playing with Messi or Neymar, but they are not the same level of greatness without Messi or Neymar to take the pressure off of them.

A team full of Xavis will not be a good team, because he is a facilitator, not a creator.  Xavi is the type of “superstar” who makes real superstars better.  He is a tremendously overrated player.  He was a gifted passer, but come on, he would receive the ball in large pockets of open space because the D was tilted toward Messi and then most of the time he would pass it to Messi or to space that Messi could run to.  You don’t need Deep Mind supercomputer AI learning to come up with that strat.

The fact is that teams have been moving away from the unathletic Xavi/Pirlo style of playmaker since Bayern Munich targeted Xavi, instead of doubling Messi, in Champions League 2013, and Manchester United muzzled Pirlo in 2010 with Ji Sung Park.  Why build your team around a guy that can be shut down by a crappier soccer player who happens to be a better athlete and cheaper?


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## Wez (Jun 6, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> There are plenty of kids here in the US who choose soccer as their #1 (and only) sport.


You missed the point, take the talent pool found in the NFL & NBA and imagine if they had played soccer instead?  Soccer doesn't attract money and prestige in America and our best soccer players usually end up playing in Europe anyway.


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## Paul Spacey (Jun 6, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> The best soccer players in the world are the best athletes + the best skilled soccer player + the best mental soccer minds. In the U.S. the best athletes will never play soccer (why would they?).  So the best the U.S. can get is 2 out of 3.


I agree with your first sentence but the second one is something too many people use an as excuse for the lack of US elite international level players.

MLS is full of ‘athletes’ but it is not full of players who are able to dictate the tempo of the game, not by sprinting as fast as they can, mindlessly, but by putting the brakes on, pausing and making intelligent decisions on the ball when the situation demands it. Many of the players who can do this are foreign (I’m not bashing US players, just pointing out something obvious). 

English top level players are not much different. We have very few (if any) truly world class, creative, dynamic decision makers who can influence elite international level games. In that sense, England and the US have similar player development problems. Blaming it on a lack of athletes won’t solve the problem. It is a very complex issue which is influenced and affected by so many variables, even things like culture and attitudes to life (it’s too complex and far-reaching to discuss in detail on this board, basically).

I respect your view though.


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## Paul Spacey (Jun 6, 2018)

Wez said:


> You missed the point, take the talent pool found in the NFL & NBA and imagine if they had played soccer instead?  Soccer doesn't attract money and prestige in America and our best soccer players usually end up playing in Europe anyway.


I didn’t, I completely got your point. I just don’t agree with it, even though I respect it and understand why you have that view.

It’s not an ‘athlete’ problem. This article explains it without me having to type about the complexities of the issue for hours.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.starsandstripesfc.com/platform/amp/2016/7/5/12089038/are-you-sick-of-hearing-if-only-americas-best-athletes-played-soccer


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## younothat (Jun 6, 2018)

DA currently is limited for players that reach a certain level;  clubs & ussda knows this and that why playing up is the only real option and why they mandate this for all Nat team players.  But even so once players reach a certain level even at ages 15,16,17 they look to move out of DA to something with greater competition or challenges be it a USL, PSL, oversears or whatever.

I would prefer to see things change in the da league and the competition level to increase across the board.   So what can be done to accomplish that? 

Like I mentioned before I don't see pro/rel getting accepted by ussda although I still think its the right course even for youth teams starting at a certain age.

Coast Soccer League (CSL) can mange this but I see what people are saying about when you try to cross leagues or whatever.  Coast has other divisions you pro/rel to but DA has just one division/bracket per age group so getting kicked out of the league would be something hard to deal with financially or politically.   DA would have to either sanction a 2nd division or accept/work with another usclub soccer org to pro/rel teams to/from.

So what else can be done?

How about some "Open" competition or tournaments that are not closed to only other "DA" clubs.   The US open club always seems to bring some life into the scene.
https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2018/06/06/02/42/20180605-recap-usoc-louisville-city-cupset-new-england-revs-first-night-2018-open-cup-fourth-round

Youth Soccer doesn't really have that exciting feel or atmosphere that a high school football or basketball game can bring,  there really not any US soccer "superstars" that kids aspire to be, in fact outside of small % of players like those in DA I think  if you asked most youth soccer players  to name players on the current Men's national team they would be hard pressed to tell you who they are?

Perhaps holding qualifying tournaments for those teams that don't meet a certain standard each year could work and give new teams a pathway into the league.   DA really needs a reboot or refresher after 10-11yrs, seems stale to me and some new ideas or approaches are needed IMO.   More tournaments, open comps, somethings to bring some excitement into the sport, rather than just playing  a set of league games for 10-months &  calling a team this or that...


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## JJP (Jun 6, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> MLS is full of ‘athletes’ but it is not full of players who are able to dictate the tempo of the game, not by sprinting as fast as they can, mindlessly, but by putting the brakes on, pausing and making intelligent decisions on the ball when the situation demands it. Many of the players who can do this are foreign (I’m not bashing US players, just pointing out something obvious).
> 
> English top level players are not much different. We have very few (if any) truly world class, creative, dynamic decision makers who can influence elite international level games. In that sense, England and the US have similar player development problems. Blaming it on a lack of athletes won’t solve the problem. It is a very complex issue which is influenced and affected by so many variables, even things like culture and attitudes to life (it’s too complex and far-reaching to discuss in detail on this board, basically).
> 
> I respect your view though.


No doubt soccer IQ is important.  Nobody disagrees with that.  But you seem to be taking the viewpoint that high soccer IQ plus limited athleticism is a viable formula for a world class player. It’s not.  Your primary example, Xavi, now plays in Qatar, was torn apart by Bayern in 2013 in Champions League, exposed in WC 2014, and was pretty shit in his last years at Barcelona.

Teams have learned that the best way to attack the unathletic Xavi/Pirlo type of deep lying playmaker is to attack them with a more athletic defender, as opposed to parking an extra defender in the back.  The Xavi/Pirlo type of player has no viable response to this strat, and nobody is looking to develop, buy or retain that type of player anymore.

Pep spent $200 million buying speedy fullbacks for Manchester City, not a single Xavi type player among them.  Barcelona bought Rakitic, Neymar and Suarez and when Neymar left bought Paulinho, Coutinho and Dembele with the money from the Neymar sale.  All those players have high soccer IQ, but they are defined by their incredible athleticism, not a single Xavi type player among them.

Xavi worked at the beginning of the tiki-taka era when teams didn’t know how to defend it, and left the deep lying playmakers alone to park the bus vs. the forwards.  This enabled the Barcelona backline and deep lying mids to maintain possession and cycle the ball until they could crack the D.  The high possession rates masked the huge weaknesses of the Xavi style player, they are terrible defenders and they cannot win back possession.  So teams started getting better athletes all over the field, high pressing and attacking the backline and deep lying midfielders, and now the Xavi style players are done.


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## ray8 (Jun 6, 2018)

Distraction said:


> They were the top team in their division, which is enough for most people to call themselves champions. At 80 points and 2.7586 points per game they lead all the U15 teams in the US. In the MLS they call that the Supporter's Shield. I think both of those reasons are pretty much good enough for a bunch of 15 year-olds to be able to scream Champions if they want to.


Galaxy held back two or so players a few days(?) from national team duty to play this game. Someone really wanted to get that points-per-game result. 

For those of you who don't know how Galaxy works or what they do to young aspiring players you should know why they needed that win. It's smoke. The mirrors part is taken care of by their name. What parent in their right mind would drive their boy 1 1/2 hours to play at a no-name club?
By smoke I mean wins. 
It should be obvious that a team that can cherry pick most any effective player from its opposition will get the wins. Second-place Dallas would have a much harder time poaching a player from hundreds of miles away. I think Galaxy at this age level is unique in it's ability to poach.
The wins afford Galaxy a few luxuries. Most of all they don't have to develop their players. They've collected enough talent to get the wins. If they just keep enough talent wearing the jersey they won't have to face that talent, regardless of whether that talent plays at all. And the excuse for not developing is built-in: Of course we can't develop our boys. There is no competition. 
Sad to see a lot of these boys I've known going sideways in terms of development. But that's the deal there.


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## Paul Spacey (Jun 6, 2018)

JJP said:


> No doubt soccer IQ is important.  Nobody disagrees with that.  But you seem to be taking the viewpoint that high soccer IQ plus limited athleticism is a viable formula for a world class player. It’s not.  Your primary example, Xavi, now plays in Qatar, was torn apart by Bayern in 2013 in Champions League, exposed in WC 2014, and was pretty shit in his last years at Barcelona.
> 
> Teams have learned that the best way to attack the unathletic Xavi/Pirlo type of deep lying playmaker is to attack them with a more athletic defender, as opposed to parking an extra defender in the back.  The Xavi/Pirlo type of player has no viable response to this strat, and nobody is looking to develop, buy or retain that type of player anymore.
> 
> ...


Nowhere did I say ‘limited athleticism’ will make an elite player. But if your focus is athleticism then you can miss the IQ and decision making part. Both the US and England have done this with their approach to development and player talent ID selection in recent times. Has it worked? No.

That you are so dismissive of Xavi’s ability suggests to me that you do not have a soccer background yourself, or maybe you do? You didn’t comment on Iniesta, would you also say he is of ‘limited athleticism’ and therefore tremendously overrated like Xavi?

Yes, Xavi plays in Qatar, thanks for pointing that out. He is also 38 years old! *head in hands*


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## JJP (Jun 6, 2018)

Wez said:


> You missed the point, take the talent pool found in the NFL & NBA and imagine if they had played soccer instead?  Soccer doesn't attract money and prestige in America and our best soccer players usually end up playing in Europe anyway.


I don’t think you can take NFL and NBA players and convert them to soccer.  NFL and especially NBA bodies are specialized for their sport, and those specialized bodies are not easily adapted to soccer.

But there are plenty of fantastic high school and college athletes with soccer body types who play basketball and college, who are not going to be pro NFL or NBA players, that IMO could be tremendous soccer players.


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## JJP (Jun 6, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> Nowhere did I say ‘limited athleticism’ will make an elite player. But if your focus is athleticism then you can miss the IQ and decision making part. Both the US and England have done this with their approach to development and player talent ID selection in recent times. Has it worked? No.


There are so many reasons why the US soccer system doesn’t work.  I don’t know enough about the English system to comment on it.  My opinion of the English system is that it produces enough players but they are split between England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, Celts, Picts and God knows what other ethnic group that looks completely like every other ethnic group in that country.

My opinion is, it’s completely worth missing out on a Xavi (you would have to filter through millions of slow, unathletic players to find a Xavi) to flush out all the shitty, slow, unathletic, but supposedly “high IQ” players.  The DA system is overwhelmed with deluded kids and parents who think their “high soccer IQ” will enable the kid to become a pro despite their limited athleticism.



> That you are so dismissive of Xavi’s ability suggests to me that you do not have a soccer background yourself, or maybe you do? You didn’t comment on Iniesta, would you also say he is of ‘limited athleticism’ and therefore tremendously overrated like Xavi?
> 
> Yes, Xavi plays in Qatar, thanks for pointing that out. He is also 38 years old! *head in hands*


Iniesta is another discussion.  But Xavi, he really only could shine under certain circumstances, and once teams adjusted to Barcelona’s initial brand of tiki-taka, his days as a top player were done.  Not sure why you’re acting like I don’t know what I’m talking about when it’s documented how Xavi got exposed and how Barcelona has spent HUGE amounts of money buying athleticism instead of doubling down on tiki-taka.


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## JCM (Jun 6, 2018)

Whoever doesn't think Pulisic is a great athlete is nuts.  He runs about a 4.5 40 and is playing at a really high level since age 17.  His touch and creativity are great, but there is a ton of athleticism there.  Also, the USMNT has a ton of great athletes.  You don't think Zardes is an athlete?  That's almost all he is.  Did you see Weah run?  Sargent at age 18 scoring goals???  These guys are all great athletes.  Brian McBride was an incredible athlete who could run and jump.  Our (USMNT) deficiency is speed of play and that's where a Xavi or Iniesta can dominate over those bigger, faster and stronger.

But if you've seen the quality of kids we produce now versus what we had even ten years ago, it's clear we are the right path.  I'm not a USDA fan because it's not great for the non star player, but we are developing kids even though it's at the expense of so many other things.


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## JJP (Jun 6, 2018)

JCM said:


> Whoever doesn't think Pulisic is a great athlete is nuts.  He runs about a 4.5 40 and is playing at a really high level since age 17.  His touch and creativity are great, but there is a ton of athleticism there.  Also, the USMNT has a ton of great athletes.  You don't think Zardes is an athlete?  That's almost all he is.  Did you see Weah run?  Sargent at age 18 scoring goals???  These guys are all great athletes.  Brian McBride was an incredible athlete who could run and jump.  Our (USMNT) deficiency is speed of play and that's where a Xavi or Iniesta can dominate over those bigger, faster and stronger.


Where’s the proof Pulisic runs a 4.5 40?  McBride retired a long time ago.  Zardes lacks foot eye coordination so he is the wrong type of athlete for soccer.

Nobody’s saying Pulisic is a bad athlete, he is an excellent athlete, but a country the size of the US should have a few freak athletes headlining the team, and we don’t.


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## JCM (Jun 6, 2018)

JJP said:


> Where’s the proof Pulisic runs a 4.5 40?  McBride retired a long time ago.  Zardes lacks foot eye coordination so he is the wrong type of athlete for soccer.
> 
> Nobody’s saying Pulisic is a bad athlete, he is an excellent athlete, but a country the size of the US should have a few freak athletes headlining the team, and we don’t.


Re: Pulisic, he is reported to have a top speed of 21.4 mph which translates to 4.5 in the 40.  Do a Google.

Not sure how you've measured Zardes' eye foot coordination other than that he has a bad touch.  To me his problem is more speed of thought and lack of creativity.  Probably a kid who got by for so long by being a superior athlete and by the time it caught up to him it was too late.  Many who are in his athletic realm are being taught technically now.  Check out the young LAFC players and you will see incredible athletes who are technical. 

Re: McBride, yes he was a long time ago, just the point that we've always had great athletes.  Even Michael Bradley is a tremendous athlete.  Jozy is athletic. Nagbe is really fluid.  Zusi is an amazing athlete.  

Now we have McKinnie, Weah, Sargent, etc. who at age 18 are getting to play at a level that requires them to do more than be an athlete and do so at an earlier age and that will make all of the difference for the USMNT in the future.


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## younothat (Jun 6, 2018)

JCM said:


> Whoever doesn't think Pulisic is a great athlete is nuts.  He runs about a 4.5 40 and is playing at a really high level since age 17.  His touch and creativity are great, but there is a ton of athleticism there.  Also, the USMNT has a ton of great athletes.  You don't think Zardes is an athlete?  That's almost all he is.  Did you see Weah run?  Sargent at age 18 scoring goals???  These guys are all great athletes.  Brian McBride was an incredible athlete who could run and jump.  Our (USMNT) deficiency is speed of play and that's where a Xavi or Iniesta can dominate over those bigger, faster and stronger.
> 
> But if you've seen the quality of kids we produce now versus what we had even ten years ago, it's clear we are the right path.  I'm not a USDA fan because it's not great for the non star player, but we are developing kids even though it's at the expense of so many other things.


Both my son and I are Pulisic fans and we think its about time that the new generation of players like him, Weah, Sargent,  Zimmerman are given shots.

However its really too early to say how things might turn out.    Missing the World Cup + the Olympics what 2-3  times in a row makes it clear that the path was not right.  Hopefully we qualify for the Olympics next go and can build on that., the friendly game vs France should be interesting.


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## JJP (Jun 6, 2018)

JCM said:


> Re: Pulisic, he is reported to have a top speed of 21.4 mph which translates to 4.5 in the 40.  Do a Google.


Take your word for it.  I’m a huge fan of Pulisic.  Hoping he gets more muscle as he matures without losing any speed.



> Not sure how you've measured Zardes' eye foot coordination other than that he has a bad touch.  To me his problem is more speed of thought and lack of creativity.  Probably a kid who got by for so long by being a superior athlete and by the time it caught up to him it was too late.  Many who are in his athletic realm are being taught technically now.  Check out the young LAFC players and you will see incredible athletes who are technical.


My son trained with Zardes.  Zardes was ridiculously fast and could jump through the roof but he had clumsy feet and a horrible touch.  I have no idea on his speed of thought or creativity.  When your first touch is that bad, doesn’t matter how creative you are.

I’ve seen the LAFC and Galaxy youth players.  They are really good soccer players and just OK, not great, athletes. Galaxy has a couple 02s that are great athletes.



> Re: McBride, yes he was a long time ago, just the point that we've always had great athletes.  Even Michael Bradley is a tremendous athlete.  Jozy is athletic. Nagbe is really fluid.  Zusi is an amazing athlete.
> 
> Now we have McKinnie, Weah, Sargent, etc. who at age 18 are getting to play at a level that requires them to do more than be an athlete and do so at an earlier age and that will make all of the difference for the USMNT in the future.


I think your definition of great athlete and my definition of great athlete are different.  I in no way consider Bradley to be a great athlete.  I thought McBride and Zusi are decent, but not great athletes, on the world level of soccer.  Altidore is a track athlete, his change of direction at the world level, is subpar.

I don’t know the young players on the USNT, but I watched a half of a recent friendly, and I was not impressed with anyone.

The only US players I’ve seen who have that combo of soccer skill and athleticism at the world class level are Landon Donovan and Pulisic.


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## Paul Spacey (Jun 6, 2018)

JJP said:


> There are so many reasons why the US soccer system doesn’t work.  I don’t know enough about the English system to comment on it.  My opinion of the English system is that it produces enough players but they are split between England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, Celts, Picts and God knows what other ethnic group that looks completely like every other ethnic group in that country.
> 
> My opinion is, it’s completely worth missing out on a Xavi (you would have to filter through millions of slow, unathletic players to find a Xavi) to flush out all the shitty, slow, unathletic, but supposedly “high IQ” players.  The DA system is overwhelmed with deluded kids and parents who think their “high soccer IQ” will enable the kid to become a pro despite their limited athleticism.
> 
> ...


Your opinion of the English system and ‘ethnic groups’ is bizarre.

I’m not acting like you don’t know what you’re talking about; you’ve made some fair points. I only asked if you had a soccer background because if you do, you are the first person I’ve ever met (who has either played the game or really understands it) that doesn’t appreciate what Xavi brought to the table.

Thanks for the exchange anyway, I’ll leave it there. All the best.


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## JJP (Jun 6, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> Your opinion of the English system and ‘ethnic groups’ is bizarre.


My point is, if u put Bale, Giggs, Keene and other top notch players with the rest of the English team, that would be one hell of a team.  I have zero background or interest in English history, so I have no idea why the talent is split that way.  I assumed the teams were split on ethnic lines, but if I’m wrong, then just ignore it because I don’t care.



> I’m not acting like you don’t know what you’re talking about; you’ve made some fair points. I only asked if you had a soccer background because if you do, you are the first person I’ve ever met (who has either played the game or really understands it) that doesn’t appreciate what Xavi brought to the table.
> 
> Thanks for the exchange anyway, I’ll leave it there. All the best.


Really?  When Bayern Munich tore apart Barcelona in 2013 Champions League, all the pundits were talking about how Bayern had figured out how to crack tiki-taka with the key element being breaking down Xavi.  There was a lot of discussion whether Xavi was overrated.  So there’s no way I’m the first person who questioned Xavi’s “greatness.”

I actually believe the player who is more interesting than Xavi and Barcelona is Pirlo and Juventus.  Once Bayern cracked Xavi, Barcelona was pretty quick to dump Xavi and switch from pure tiki-taka to a hybrid version that at times abandoned midfield control to outlet the ball to the NSM combo (Neymar-Suarez-Messi).  Juventus, on the other hand, stuck with Pirlo for a while.

I can see that you are a big fan of Xavi and what he represents, but there’s no way I can call him great when you consider that his “legacy” includes getting torn apart in Champions League 2013, torn apart in World Cup 2014, voluntarily going to Qatar which IMO was an admission by him that the game had passed him by, his team abandoning the tiki-taka style of play with which he was identified, his team not even trying to replace him with a younger version of himself.

Maybe it’s fair to say that Xavi represents an evolution in the game.  He tried to swing the pendulum toward soccer IQ and ball control, but the game evolved to more athleticism and pressure all over the pitch.


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## Wez (Jun 6, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> I didn’t, I completely got your point. I just don’t agree with it, even though I respect it and understand why you have that view.
> 
> It’s not an ‘athlete’ problem. This article explains it without me having to type about the complexities of the issue for hours.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.starsandstripesfc.com/platform/amp/2016/7/5/12089038/are-you-sick-of-hearing-if-only-americas-best-athletes-played-soccer


Hard for me to take that article seriously when it's first point is: "...asking that question assumes that US Soccer players aren't already amazing athletes in their own right, which is patently false."  I never said Soccer players aren't amazing athletes, I was just asserting we might do better if US Soccer attracted a much larger number of our best athletes.  I do appreciate you posting it and I did find it an interesting read.


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## Sheriff Joe (Jun 6, 2018)

Wez said:


> Hard for me to take that article seriously when it's first point is: "...asking that question assumes that US Soccer players aren't already amazing athletes in their own right, which is patently false."  I never said Soccer players aren't amazing athletes, I was just asserting we might do better if US Soccer attracted a much larger number of our best athletes.  I do appreciate you posting it and I did find it an interesting read.


You ok?


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## Wez (Jun 6, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> You ok?


Yes, life is way too short to be arguing over politics on a soccer forum.


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## Sheriff Joe (Jun 6, 2018)

Wez said:


> Yes, life is way too short to be arguing over politics on a soccer forum.


Got it.


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## fhr2k3 (Jun 6, 2018)

JJP said:


> My point is, if u put Bale, Giggs, Keene and other top notch players with the rest of the English team, that would be one hell of a team.  I have zero background or interest in English history, so I have no idea why the talent is split that way.  I assumed the teams were split on ethnic lines, but if I’m wrong, then just ignore it because I don’t care.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Xavi was 33 for gods sake. LOL.


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## JJP (Jun 6, 2018)

fhr2k3 said:


> Xavi was 33 for gods sake. LOL.


C. Ronaldo is also 33 and he plays forward and relies on athleticism.  Xavi’s game never relied on athleticism so his game should theoretically age better.


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## fhr2k3 (Jun 6, 2018)

JJP said:


> C. Ronaldo is also 33 and he plays forward and relies on athleticism.  Xavi’s game never relied on athleticism so his game should theoretically age better.


You're right, that's why he's far from what he was 5 years ago and  probably won't be coming back with Real.


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## TMJ (Jun 12, 2018)

I think it’s a very small number of DA parents who think their kid will make the “big time,” and the program should be seen and even appreciated for what it is:  A chance to play at a high(er) level, have some cool opportunities to travel, get an extra practice or two per week, some cool gear, and play a bunch of games.  

I’m an occasional drop-in on these boards, but the topics raised so often turn really to the state of US soccer.  Fine, that’s a legit concern for soccer enthusiasts, and maybe fun to debate...and I agree we’ll likely never have a program that rivals say, an Argentina.  I don’t know if the DA system is broken so much as just years behind anything the soccer power countries have in place.

I know this:  My teen is having an incredible experience, developing, making friends, and hopes to score some college $ for his efforts, not change the world and the US Soccer machine.  I daresay he’s not in the minority there, either.  

In a few years this will all be a memory, friends!  I say we enjoy every minute!


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## True love (Jun 12, 2018)

TMJ said:


> I think it’s a very small number of DA parents who think their kid will make the “big time,” and the program should be seen and even appreciated for what it is:  A chance to play at a high(er) level, have some cool opportunities to travel, get an extra practice or two per week, some cool gear, and play a bunch of games.
> 
> I’m an occasional drop-in on these boards, but the topics raised so often turn really to the state of US soccer.  Fine, that’s a legit concern for soccer enthusiasts, and maybe fun to debate...and I agree we’ll likely never have a program that rivals say, an Argentina.  I don’t know if the DA system is broken so much as just years behind anything the soccer power countries have in place.
> 
> ...



Wow wow yes sir, after today I will take your words seriously, one of the best if not the best, kool little article ever written on this forum, you true words will never die, thanks.


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## jpeter (Jun 12, 2018)

TMJ said:


> I think it’s a very small number of DA parents who think their kid will make the “big time,” and the program should be seen and even appreciated for what it is:  A chance to play at a high(er) level, have some cool opportunities to travel, get an extra practice or two per week, some cool gear, and play a bunch of games.
> 
> I’m an occasional drop-in on these boards, but the topics raised so often turn really to the state of US soccer.  Fine, that’s a legit concern for soccer enthusiasts, and maybe fun to debate...and I agree we’ll likely never have a program that rivals say, an Argentina.  I don’t know if the DA system is broken so much as just years behind anything the soccer power countries have in place.
> 
> ...


I with you on enjoying the moments,  college sholarships funds could be a nice bonus but my son is playing because he loves soccer and he's not counting on getting anything $ wise but maybe easier admissions or class availablity.

He's already visited / talked to LMU, UCLA, CAL and beyond partial soccer sholarships based on economic needs he's looking into other sholarships programs to be able to manage the fees of these types of schools.  

He played boys ECNL this past season which was more competitive than his previous league but after whatching da games of his friends he thinks the top da teams are more competitive vs top ecnl teams.  Regular top club teams are pretty close to both in tournaments and it's normally just a matter of depth or strength of the whole squad.   

Big year coming up for these boys so should interesting to see them continue to grow & develop.    Some overseas International tournments this summer I heard from some teams?


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## Zvezdas (Jun 12, 2018)

I read and listened a lot of soccer related bs since I moved here from Europe, but your idiotic rant about Xavi JJP surpasses everything. Out of curiosity, where have you played soccer in your youth?


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## jpeter (Jun 23, 2018)

So galaxy looses both there u15 showcase games so far 2-1 to red bulls who played 04's  and a 05 while galaxy played only there 03 starters.

DC United also beat them 2-1 and the Galaxy center back is suspended after his 10th yellow card, did he lead the SW league in fouls? 

Champions claim is not looking good for them and when they meet teams with silimar records the haven't really done well like when golden state beat them 3-0.


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## 3leches (Jun 23, 2018)

Red Bulls subbed in started one 2004 and subbed in one 04 and one 05 at the 62nd minute, you painted a picture of galaxy playing a team full of 2004's.


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