# SDSC: Why no Girls DA or ECNL?



## MicPaPa (Dec 3, 2019)

For such a large and competitive program in a densely populated area, why doesn't SDSC have Girls DA or ECNL?

Does close geographic proximity to other clubs, SD Surf (DA) or DMCV Sharks (ECNL), prevent them from obtaining DA or ECNL? 

I would really appreciate responders with direct insight and knowledge to the criteria and process of awarding DA / ECNL to clubs. Thanks


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## John Clee-Charlton (Dec 3, 2019)

It’s usually down to the application process and the clubs already in the 2 leagues.

The application process for both asks for coaching history of all alumni and coaching history of the coaches, the number of players, past historic results etc.

USSF asks for coaches to have a minimum of a B license. I don’t think ECNL asks for a minimum license.

Also they ask for minimum field space and the ability to hold 3-6 games on a weekend.


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## Socal United (Dec 3, 2019)

Those that have want as little competition as possible.  They will fight to the end to keep it from happening no matter how hard you try.


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## futboldad1 (Dec 3, 2019)

SDSC has some competitive teams but they seem to be lacking any truly top level teams (that beat the teams in the top half of the ECNL and DA). I always respected the club when I lived there and still do but only a certain number can be ECNL or DA otherwise is it really elite? In a dream world the bottom two clubs in each of those leagues would be relegated and replaced but we don’t follow the European model here unfortunately


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## Goforgoal (Dec 3, 2019)

Good question! I don't have any inside knowledge, but if I were to guess, it probably boils down to politics and the lack of a National Championship of some sort. Hopefully something will go their way soon as it really is a fantastic program.


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## dad4 (Dec 3, 2019)

Clubs already in ECNL use that status to block new clubs from joining.  Same goes for DA.

It is a basic anti-competitive measure.  Restrict other teams access to top level games, then poach the top players by offering them a chance to be in the "elite" league if they jump ship.

It has to do with ability to create top teams.  SDSC 2010G are the best in the nation, but they won't be allowed to play DA otr ECNL when they are older.  

Legends was a strong club the whole time ECNL was pretending they aren't good enough.  Now Legends is DA, and pretends the ECNL teams aren't good enough.


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## met61 (Dec 3, 2019)

Socal United said:


> Those that have want as little competition as possible.  They will fight to the end to keep it from happening no matter how hard you try.


I believe this is closest to the truth / reason.


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## met61 (Dec 3, 2019)

[/QUOTE]


futboldad1 said:


> SDSC has some competitive teams but they seem to be lacking any truly top level teams (that beat the teams in the top half of the ECNL and DA). I always respected the club when I lived there and still do but only a certain number can be ECNL or DA otherwise is it really elite? In a dream world the bottom two clubs in each of those leagues would be relegated and replaced but we don’t follow the European model here unfortunately


Not so much... doesn't explain ENCL for DMCV Sharks, aside from Shannon MacMillan as Director.


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## met61 (Dec 3, 2019)

dad4 said:


> Clubs already in ECNL use that status to block new clubs from joining.  Same goes for DA.
> 
> It is a basic anti-competitive measure.  Restrict other teams access to top level games, then poach the top players by offering them a chance to be in the "elite" league if they jump ship.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately true... Politics and egos over what's best for the players and the health of the sport.


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## Goforgoal (Dec 3, 2019)

met61 said:


> Not so much... doesn't explain ENCL for DMCV Sharks, aside from Shannon MacMillan as Director.


Well, they also had a team that won a couple USYS National Championships 5-6 years ago. I'd venture to bet the selection committees take stuff like this into consideration.


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## Keepers_Keeper (Dec 3, 2019)

ECNL requires top teams in each age group U13-U18.  There are many clubs that have 1 or more team that could compete at that level, but the pipeline of teams may not be sufficient to field teams in all of the age groups.  Both Surf and Sharks have had players move from SDSC to their ECNL or DA teams.  I wouldn't say it's politics, it's just a matter of having bench depth of players and coaches to support longevity in ECNL or DA, plus having one or more team demonstrate success at high levels (i.e. DMCV Sharks -i.e. Felicia Kappes team I think they were '98s).


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## GKDad65 (Dec 3, 2019)

Relax, get good grades, have fun, and don't worry about what ABC league your club sells you...it doesn't matter as much as you think it does.


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## met61 (Dec 3, 2019)

Keepers_Keeper said:


> ECNL requires top teams in each age group U13-U18.  There are many clubs that have 1 or more team that could compete at that level, but the pipeline of teams may not be sufficient to field teams in all of the age groups.  Both Surf and Sharks have had players move from SDSC to their ECNL or DA teams.  I wouldn't say it's politics, it's just a matter of having bench depth of players and coaches to support longevity in ECNL or DA, plus having one or more team demonstrate success at high levels (i.e. DMCV Sharks -i.e. Felicia Kappes team I think they were '98s).


Do you think Surf and Sharks just have a "passive desire" that SCSD not get DA or ECNL?

I'd put my money on "politics" and Surf / Sharks actively ensuring SDSC doesn't get it. 

SDSC would put a very large dent in their programs...thus, brand and bottom line.


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## met61 (Dec 3, 2019)

GKDad65 said:


> Relax, get good grades, have fun, and don't worry about what ABC league your club sells you...it doesn't matter as much as you think it does.


Lack of competition...SCDSL 1 is C level competition at best.


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## Keepers_Keeper (Dec 3, 2019)

met61 said:


> Do you think Surf and Sharks just have a "passive desire" that SCSD not get DA or ECNL?
> 
> I'd put my money on "politics" and Surf / Sharks actively ensuring SDSC doesn't get it.
> 
> SDSC would put a very large dent in their programs...thus, brand and bottom line.


Surf doesn't "passively" do anything.  If they wanted something to happen (or not happen), it would be very overt.
Sharks approach is to focus on players - how they fit with coaches and teams.  The focus isn't on what other clubs are doing or not doing. 
There has always been flow between those three clubs, but it's more about fit (player, team, goals) than anything political.  
ECNL just added Rebels, so there are now options for South/East and Central/Nort/Inland San Diego county.  It isn't strategically necessary for ECNL (can't speak to DA) to consider adding another SD club.  This season ECNL more teams to the SW region and the schedule is ridiculous. To make room for another SD team, one of the other teams from OC or even Arsenal would have to exit.  If Arsenal merges and goes DA, who knows.  Maybe Temecula Hawks has as good a chance as SDSC to apply to ECNL.  Just speculating...


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## MicPaPa (Dec 3, 2019)

dad4 said:


> Clubs already in ECNL use that status to block new clubs from joining.  Same goes for DA.
> 
> It is a basic anti-competitive measure.  Restrict other teams access to top level games, then poach the top players by offering them a chance to be in the "elite" league if they jump ship.
> 
> ...


Good assessment, generally how I figured it to be as well.

Geographically, and probably politically, SDSC is frozen out of higher competition beyond DSL. The G2010 example, and many other very good teams,  are a testament of the large and strong community base of young players that are forced to depart the club early on to continue developing and playing at highest levels with DA/ECNL. It's hard to achieve championship teams when they're gutted at early ages...it has become an unfortunate cycle.

There is a great pool of players in the SDSC footprint...but my family has long since had to move on from SDSC. I know many families, mine included, that much prefer staying close to home with SDSC and build national class teams...Unfortunately, Surf knows this as well.


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## timbuck (Dec 3, 2019)

Promotion and relegation exists.  It’s just not on a team level.  It’s on an individual player level.


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## dad4 (Dec 3, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Promotion and relegation exists.  It’s just not on a team level.  It’s on an individual player level.


That isn't what promotion or relegation means. Those activities are called recruiting and cuts.

Try again.  Why don't DA or ECNL schedule games against high skill teams that are not DA or ECNL?

The best explanation so far is that it is an anticompetitive business practice at children's expense.


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## timbuck (Dec 3, 2019)

dad4 said:


> That isn't what promotion or relegation means. Those activities are called recruiting and cuts.
> 
> Try again.  Why don't DA or ECNL schedule games against high skill teams that are not DA or ECNL?
> 
> The best explanation so far is that it is an anticompetitive business practice at children's expense.


Yes.  That’s what i was (sarcastically) trying to say.


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## dad4 (Dec 3, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Yes.  That’s what i was (sarcastically) trying to say.


Sorry.  Missed it completely.


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## justneededaname (Dec 4, 2019)

dad4 said:


> It has to do with ability to create top teams.  SDSC 2010G are the best in the nation, but they won't be allowed to play DA otr ECNL when they are older.


The players will be allowed to. Just not for SDSC. Lots of SDSC shorts on kids at DA club training sessions this week.


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## newwavedave (Dec 4, 2019)

MicPaPa said:


> Good assessment, generally how I figured it to be as well.
> 
> Geographically, and probably politically, SDSC is frozen out of higher competition beyond DSL. The G2010 example, and many other very good teams,  are a testament of the large and strong community base of young players that are forced to depart the club early on to continue developing and playing at highest levels with DA/ECNL. It's hard to achieve championship teams when they're gutted at early ages...it has become an unfortunate cycle.
> 
> There is a great pool of players in the SDSC footprint...but my family has long since had to move on from SDSC. I know many families, mine included, that much prefer staying close to home with SDSC and build national class teams...Unfortunately, Surf knows this as well.


I think it sucks.  If SDSC develops a stud goat from u6-u12 and then stud goat goes to Surf for a free ride or other promises and then plays big time college ball, who can market that player on Instagram and FB posts?  6 years each from each club?  I would say the first 6 years are more important. Yet, you have big clubs promoting right now as I speak on their FB accounts all the players they have developed for college.  I saw one girl who played for Arsenal for many, many years but is now a Legend.  Parents with u9 kids have no idea the club hopping that has happened over the last two years. So misleading I can scream......


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## espola (Dec 4, 2019)

newwavedave said:


> I think it sucks.  If SDSC develops a stud goat from u6-u12 and then stud goat goes to Surf for a free ride or other promises and then plays big time college ball, who can market that player on Instagram and FB posts?  6 years each from each club?  I would say the first 6 years are more important. Yet, you have big clubs promoting right now as I speak on their FB accounts all the players they have developed for college.  I saw one girl who played for Arsenal for many, many years but is now a Legend.  Parents with u9 kids have no idea the club hopping that has happened over the last two years. So misleading I can scream......


When DA for boys started over 10 years ago, from the details of the plan it was obvious that new teams were to be formed that would have an apparent recruiting advantage over teams in existing clubs.  It appears from comments I read that the situation had not changed much.  The DA teams offer a promise that the non-DA teams cannot match and thus are able to peel off the better players from the smaller or less-politically-advantaged clubs.

Perhaps DA should change its name from Development Academy to Developed Academy.


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## MicPaPa (Dec 4, 2019)

newwavedave said:


> I think it sucks.  If SDSC develops a stud goat from u6-u12 and then stud goat goes to Surf for a free ride or other promises and then plays big time college ball, who can market that player on Instagram and FB posts?  6 years each from each club?  I would say the first 6 years are more important. Yet, you have big clubs promoting right now as I speak on their FB accounts all the players they have developed for college.  I saw one girl who played for Arsenal for many, many years but is now a Legend.  Parents with u9 kids have no idea the club hopping that has happened over the last two years. So misleading I can scream......


Very unfortunate...Been at it awhile and as a former SDSC member I can attest SDSC has and continues to develop great young players, as stated earlier their G2010 is top in the nation, but not for much longer as top players will have to depart for progression.  

The clubs only downfall is being in Surfs backyard.

For the record, it's my opinion ENCL status would be considerably better served with SDSC then with the Sharks...but again, pure politics over what's best for the players, the sport and the community.


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## newwavedave (Dec 4, 2019)

MicPaPa said:


> Very unfortunate...Been at it awhile and as a former SDSC member I can attest SDSC has and continues to develop great young players, as stated earlier their G2010 is top in the nation, but not for much longer as top players will have to depart for progression.
> 
> The clubs only downfall is being in Surfs backyard.
> 
> For the record, it's my opinion ENCL status would be considerably better served with SDSC then with the Sharks...but again, pure politics over what's best for the players, the sport and the community.


We need standards of practice.  I believe all clubs have the right to recruit and if a club wants to give out full rides and promises of play time and position, that is within their rights.  I take issue when one club has the YNT carrot and the others don't have it.  Something is very wrong with that.  At least with ECNL, all they promised was high school soccer is allowed and college coaches will come to showcases.  Beach and Legends parents got all mad because a private company, ECNL, said no to JH and other clubs and those clubs poached their goats.  Now these clubs have the YNT to dangle in front of kids and their parents. Plus they have the Training Centers as a true recruiting center to steal goats.  It's unfair business practice in my book but I'm not a lawyer.


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## MicPaPa (Dec 4, 2019)

espola said:


> When DA for boys started over 10 years ago, from the details of the plan it was obvious that new teams were to be formed that would have an apparent recruiting advantage over teams in existing clubs.  It appears from comments I read that the situation had not changed much.  The DA teams offer a promise that the non-DA teams cannot match and thus are able to peel off the better players from the smaller or less-politically-advantaged clubs.
> 
> Perhaps DA should change its name from Development Academy to Developed Academy.


Unfortunately true... opportunities for competition are becoming much more limited in many areas/communities and need to travel is increasing...as if commuting around SoCal doesn't suck enough during the week, now weekends are spent sitting in traffic 3 times longer than a game lasts.


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 4, 2019)

We’ve had the same issues up in the SouthBay until DA came around.  Local clubs would develop players and they would be poached by Slammers, Blues, Real SoCal, etc. who had ECNL status.  The closed league concept sucks.  Nobody really wins.


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## dad4 (Dec 4, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> We’ve had the same issues up in the SouthBay until DA came around.  Local clubs would develop players and they would be poached by Slammers, Blues, Real SoCal, etc. who had ECNL status.  The closed league concept sucks.  Nobody really wins.


Parents have the ability to end it.  Stop signing up for closed league teams.


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## Goforgoal (Dec 4, 2019)

dad4 said:


> Parents have the ability to end it.  Stop signing up for closed league teams.


We all know that won't happen. The FOMO is too strong.


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 4, 2019)

dad4 said:


> Parents have the ability to end it.  Stop signing up for closed league teams.


I would, but why rule out the best Coach for my kid because he is a DA Coach and the program is in my back yard?


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## MicPaPa (Dec 4, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> I would, but why rule out the best Coach for my kid because he is a DA Coach and the program is in my back yard?


I get it, completely understand your position, I wish I were in it...but until SDSC can offer competition beyond SCDSL 1, traveling out of the community is the only avenue for progression. Trust me, Surf knows a SDDC DA program would definitely impact their club...and ENCL would significantly impact Sharks.

Don't see this changing anytime soon...Politics are in play.


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## dad4 (Dec 4, 2019)

I dont see people leaving DA and ECNL either.  Too many of us want to be told our darling is elite.

Including me, of course.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Dec 5, 2019)

It doesn't make sense for DA or ECNL to have two programs right next to each other.  Ideally you would want proper coverage of an area to provide an opportunity to as many potential players as possible.  I'm glad DA came along since ECNL was basically only in OC and SD a few years back.


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