# 2 new girls DA clubs announced



## Desert Hound

They just announced  4 new GDA clubs.

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2018/03/09/16/38/20180309-news-development-academy-welcomes-16-new-clubs-for-2018-19-season

My title was wrong.


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## espola

Desert Hound said:


> They just announced  4 new GDA clubs.
> 
> https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2018/03/09/16/38/20180309-news-development-academy-welcomes-16-new-clubs-for-2018-19-season
> 
> My title was wrong.


There's a San Jose Surf now?  WTF?


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## beachbum

Desert Hound said:


> They just announced  4 new GDA clubs.
> 
> https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2018/03/09/16/38/20180309-news-development-academy-welcomes-16-new-clubs-for-2018-19-season
> 
> My title was wrong.


3 full girls DA an 13 boys DA mostly U12


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## Desert Hound

beachbum said:


> 3 full girls DA an 13 boys DA mostly U12


Well it is 4 clubs. 3 are full GDA. 1 club got u14, u15. A club called Arlington Soccer Assoc.


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## AZsoccerDad

that should be interesting DH. Do you think that will take ECNL away from Sereno?
hope all is well in the desert!


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## Desert Hound

AZsoccerDad said:


> that should be interesting DH. Do you think that will take ECNL away from Sereno?
> hope all is well in the desert!


That is the big question...or should we say the last question. 

Do they want it? Can they support it? If they do want it, does ECNL want to keep it with them? 

If ECNL takes it from them (or they give it up) the two likely candidates are Blackhawks or Arsenal. I go with Arsenal if they make the change because as it stands now, Arsenal is much stronger on the girls side vs Bhs...and geographically is away from del Sol DA and now Sereno DA. 

All is well in AZ. Same with you in the new location?


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## AZsoccerDad

Desert Hound said:


> That is the big question...or should we say the last question.
> 
> Do they want it? Can they support it? If they do want it, does ECNL want to keep it with them?
> 
> If ECNL takes it from them (or they give it up) the two likely candidates are Blackhawks or Arsenal. I go with Arsenal if they make the change because as it stands now, Arsenal is much stronger on the girls side vs Bhs...and geographically is away from del Sol DA and now Sereno DA.
> 
> All is well in AZ. Same with you in the new location?


I agree Arsenal is better suited to take the ECNL option/route. BH's loses out to both DA options in that area. All well here...have to get my soccer news fix here....not a single decent board in the East


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## Monkey

So what happened to Rebels?  I was told by one of the coaches about DA.


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## shales1002

Desert Hound said:


> That is the big question...or should we say the last question.
> 
> Do they want it? Can they support it? If they do want it, does ECNL want to keep it with them?
> 
> If ECNL takes it from them (or they give it up) the two likely candidates are Blackhawks or Arsenal. I go with Arsenal if they make the change because as it stands now, Arsenal is much stronger on the girls side vs Bhs...and geographically is away from del Sol DA and now Sereno DA.
> 
> All is well in AZ. Same with you in the new location?


 Okay...I am scratching my head. Please help me understand the Utah Royals Fc of Phoenix.


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## azsnowrider

shales1002 said:


> Okay...I am scratching my head. Please help me understand the Utah Royals Fc of Phoenix.


I'm scratching my head also and I'm in Phoenix. Marketing


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## Desert Hound

azsnowrider said:


> I'm scratching my head also and I'm in Phoenix. Marketing


It kind of rolls off the tongue in a similar way as LA Galaxy San Diego. Neither sound terribly good.


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## SocalPapa

Desert Hound said:


> They just announced  4 new GDA clubs.
> 
> https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2018/03/09/16/38/20180309-news-development-academy-welcomes-16-new-clubs-for-2018-19-season


That's weird.  They show exactly 4 new GDA clubs and the total number of clubs growing from 69 this season to 73 next year.  That suggests all 69 teams are returning. But both Burlingame and FC Kansas City have had to forfeit all of their remaining GDA games this season.  Does that mean those two clubs are getting a reprieve?


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## azsnowrider

Desert Hound said:


> That is the big question...or should we say the last question.
> 
> Do they want it? Can they support it? If they do want it, does ECNL want to keep it with them?
> 
> If ECNL takes it from them (or they give it up) the two likely candidates are Blackhawks or Arsenal. I go with Arsenal if they make the change because as it stands now, Arsenal is much stronger on the girls side vs Bhs...and geographically is away from del Sol DA and now Sereno DA.
> 
> All is well in AZ. Same with you in the new location?


If ECNL goes anywhere it needs to go to Arsenal, they have a pool in that part of town to pull from. No reason for 3 clubs within 5 miles of each other to have it all, Unless you see a merge between the 2.


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## outside!

No Rebels?


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## Nutmeg

shales1002 said:


> Okay...I am scratching my head. Please help me understand the Utah Royals Fc of Phoenix.


Utah royals the new NWSL team stolen from Kansas City, just built a brand new state of the art fancy soccer training center in Utah. Apparently the boys academy and MLS, NWSL teams will use it. The girls academy will be based it looks like in Arizona at the old Casa Grande Barca facility. Why? Because I am guessing US Soccer wanted another dessert team and no one else wanted DA.  So Us Soccer just made one DA team out of thin air.  Because simply they can. The franchise in Utah probably didn’t want to spend money on girls now. Well at least they waited until after international women’s day.


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## outside!

Nutmeg said:


> Utah royals the new NWSL team stolen from Kansas City, just built a brand new state of the art fancy soccer training center in Utah. Apparently the boys academy and MLS, NWSL teams will use it. The girls academy will be based it looks like in Arizona at the old Casa Grande Barca facility. Why? Because I am guessing US Soccer wanted another dessert team and no one else wanted DA.  So Us Soccer just made one DA team out of thin air.  Because simply they can. The franchise in Utah probably didn’t want to spend money on girls now. Well at least they waited until after international women’s day.


Glad DD is aging out and we won't have to do two games in Phoenix next year.


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## Desert Hound

Nutmeg said:


> Utah royals the new NWSL team stolen from Kansas City, just built a brand new state of the art fancy soccer training center in Utah. Apparently the boys academy and MLS, NWSL teams will use it. The girls academy will be based it looks like in Arizona at the old Casa Grande Barca facility. Why? Because I am guessing US Soccer wanted another dessert team and no one else wanted DA.  So Us Soccer just made one DA team out of thin air.  Because simply they can. The franchise in Utah probably didn’t want to spend money on girls now. Well at least they waited until after international women’s day.


They will not be based at Barca. 

The teams will practice most likely in Mesa. 

In terms of games played? They might use the fields in Casa Grande like del Sol does...but that has yet to be determined. 

They didn't make the team out of thin air. It is Sereno/Legacy who got da and who merged together and got the affiliation with RSL. RSL's womens side is the Royals.


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## HaveFun

Nutmeg said:


> Utah royals the new NWSL team stolen from Kansas City, just built a brand new state of the art fancy soccer training center in Utah. Apparently the boys academy and MLS, NWSL teams will use it. The girls academy will be based it looks like in Arizona at the old Casa Grande Barca facility. Why? Because I am guessing US Soccer wanted another dessert team and no one else wanted DA.  So Us Soccer just made one DA team out of thin air.  Because simply they can. The franchise in Utah probably didn’t want to spend money on girls now. Well at least they waited until after international women’s day.


Did you read this somewhere. I thought Barcelona was using that facility for their boys DA teams?


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## Desert Hound

HaveFun said:


> Did you read this somewhere. I thought Barcelona was using that facility for their boys DA teams?


See my post above. Sereno/legacy merged and the new club is called RSL-AZ due to their affiliation with RSL in the MLS. Their girls side got DA and will use the MLS pro women's team name.

Barca does use that facility for their DA teams.

Their fields however are used by many clubs in AZ throughout the year. Far West Regional games are played their as well. del Sol is using them as home fields for the DA side...etc.


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## Nutmeg

Desert Hound said:


> They will not be based at Barca.
> 
> The teams will practice most likely in Mesa.
> 
> In terms of games played? They might use the fields in Casa Grande like del Sol does...but that has yet to be determined.
> 
> They didn't make the team out of thin air. It is Sereno/Legacy who got da and who merged together and got the affiliation with RSL. RSL's womens side is the Royals.





Desert Hound said:


> They will not be based at Barca.
> 
> The teams will practice most likely in Mesa.
> 
> In terms of games played? They might use the fields in Casa Grande like del Sol does...but that has yet to be determined.
> 
> They didn't make the team out of thin air. It is Sereno/Legacy who got da and who merged together and got the affiliation with RSL. RSL's womens side is the Royals.


Utah Royals did not exist until 5 months ago. The RSL merger prior is boys DA. The Royals and USSOCCER did create it out of thin air. Nothing existed called Utah Royals of Phoenix. If your a girl playing soccer in Utah and we’re exciyed to follow the Royals and play acedemy under Laura Harvey your sh.. out of luck, cause that’s a long drive to train in Phoenix 4x a week.


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## Desert Hound

Nutmeg said:


> Utah Royals did not exist until 5 months ago. The RSL merger prior is boys DA. The Royals and USSOCCER did create it out of thin air. Nothing existed called Utah Royals of Phoenix. If your a girl playing soccer in Utah and we’re exciyed to follow the Royals and play acedemy under Laura Harvey your sh.. out of luck, cause that’s a long drive to train in Phoenix 4x a week.


So by that theory out of thin air. Was LA Galaxy San Diego created out of thin air? Had there ever been a LA Galaxy San Diego prior to DA? It was Carlsbad United previously right? Then I guess what happened was out of thin air LA Galaxy and USSoccer created LA Galaxy San Diego right? 

Now in terms of marketing there must be some reason RSL wanted to have a GDA using clubs in AZ vs Utah. What that reasoning is, I don't know. Maybe they feel that have a lock on the Utah market fan wise and so by using AZ clubs maybe they can expand their fan base to AZ. Something crazy like that.


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## Nutmeg

Desert Hound said:


> So by that theory out of thin air. Was LA Galaxy San Diego created out of thin air? Had there ever been a LA Galaxy San Diego prior to DA? It was Carlsbad United previously right? Then I guess what happened was out of thin air LA Galaxy and USSoccer created LA Galaxy San Diego right?
> 
> Now in terms of marketing there must be some reason RSL wanted to have a GDA using clubs in AZ vs Utah. What that reasoning is, I don't know. Maybe they feel that have a lock on the Utah market fan wise and so by using AZ clubs maybe they can expand their fan base to AZ. Something crazy like that.


Dude we don’t need to parent fight about this. There is a difference between an MLS team in a local market buying a whole club like Carlsbad and a new NWSL team in another state telling those girls to go F - OFF and having their DA branded academy team in another state. That to me is just the worst.  Yeah I’m sure the fan base issue was huge right! Please. They were able to outsource the cost of operations to another team all the while getting free marketing while retaining their brand in Arizona. Also getting dollars from little girls buying Royals jerseys in Utah and selling season tickets to family’s and girls where they clearly they don’t care about them.


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## mbeach

Desert Hound said:


> So by that theory out of thin air. Was LA Galaxy San Diego created out of thin air? Had there ever been a LA Galaxy San Diego prior to DA? It was Carlsbad United previously right? Then I guess what happened was out of thin air LA Galaxy and USSoccer created LA Galaxy San Diego right?
> 
> Now in terms of marketing there must be some reason RSL wanted to have a GDA using clubs in AZ vs Utah. What that reasoning is, I don't know. Maybe they feel that have a lock on the Utah market fan wise and so by using AZ clubs maybe they can expand their fan base to AZ. Something crazy like that.


Thanks for having us informed about what happens in Arizona, most people here appreciate what well-informed non locals bring to the forum.


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## azsnowrider

Nutmeg said:


> Utah Royals did not exist until 5 months ago. The RSL merger prior is boys DA. The Royals and USSOCCER did create it out of thin air. Nothing existed called Utah Royals of Phoenix. If your a girl playing soccer in Utah and we’re exciyed to follow the Royals and play acedemy under Laura Harvey your sh.. out of luck, cause that’s a long drive to train in Phoenix 4x a week.


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## Nutmeg

azsnowrider said:


> Think of it this way, its Sereno Soccer club doing business as Utah Royals FC- Phoenix. I know it doesn't make sense but that's what it is. There is a sponsorship/partneship agreement between Sereno and RSL which owns the Royals. This is what they are calling the team here in AZ now they are going though a re-branding and it is no longer Sereno which I am sure you are familiar with due to ECNL. Even without the DA the girls teams at sereno would have still had this affiliation with the Royals.


I get it .Maybe Sereno should of bought the NWSL team from Kansas City than. My only point simply is it disenfranchises the girls in the market where the actual Royals are.


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## azsnowrider

Nutmeg said:


> I get it .Maybe Sereno should of bought the NWSL team from Kansas City than. My only point simply is it disenfranchises the girls in the market where the actual Royals are.


I went to edit my post and lost it, but I'm glad you caught it. Look I don't disagree at all, I'm with ya and get what your saying. But, at the end of the day it came down to money and I don't think they had the player pool and resources to pull off the girls DA. Plus I think La Roca already has a girls DA in Utah, not sure they can support 2. Honestly, I'm not sure we can support 2 DA's either.


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## beachbum

Will be interesting spring in AZ for sure.  Anyone here about any type of funding for the new DA from RSL/Royals.  Right now if you are with SCDS all you pay for is travel, which is not cheap.


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## Nutmeg

beachbum said:


> Will be interesting spring in AZ for sure.  Anyone here about any type of funding for the new DA from RSL/Royals.  Right now if you are with SCDS all you pay for is travel, which is not cheap.


If Royals/RSL were going to fund the DA team it would of stayed in Utah. Assume mostly parent funded on girls side, but you will get a free Royals NWSL pocket schedule calendar, and car decal. So that’s good.


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## Kicker4Life

Desert Hound said:


> So by that theory out of thin air. Was LA Galaxy San Diego created out of thin air? Had there ever been a LA Galaxy San Diego prior to DA? It was Carlsbad United previously right? Then I guess what happened was out of thin air LA Galaxy and USSoccer created LA Galaxy San Diego right?


WRONG......Carlsbad Lightening and Carlsbad Wave merged to form Carlsbad United. 

A year later that Carlsbad United became LA Galaxy San Diego.

A year after that girls development Academy was formed LA Galaxy San Diego was one of the initial clubs credit academy status  

If this was intended as sarcasm, I’ll go ahead and apologize.


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## Soccer43

Utah already has a DA with La Roca.  Maybe the pro team approached La Roca to affiliate and they weren't interested.  That region is not going to be able to support two DA's so thus AZ seems the most logical location for the new pro team's DA club.


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## Seven

Virginia Deveolpment Academy leaves the GDA. Goes to ECNL.
http://www.vdasoccer.org/Default.aspx?tabid=1231129


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## timbuck

Seven said:


> Virginia Deveolpment Academy leaves the GDA. Goes to ECNL.
> http://www.vdasoccer.org/Default.aspx?tabid=1231129


Will they have to change their name from “Virginia Development Academy”?
Will US Soccer start issuing cease and desist orders for any club or team that uses “Academy” in their name now?


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## Seven

timbuck said:


> Will they have to change their name from “Virginia Development Academy”?
> Will US Soccer start issuing cease and desist orders for any club or team that uses “Academy” in their name now?


I’m not sure about them changing their name bc at the end of the announcement it says,  “As a result of this decision, VDA has notified U.S. Soccer that it will not renew its membership into the girls’ Development Academy for 2018-19, but is fully committed to complete the 2017-18 season, including all league games and showcase events. VDA remains committed to the boys’ DA, as well as men and women’s CCL Pro 23 moving forward.”


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## futboldad1

timbuck said:


> Will they have to change their name from “Virginia Development Academy”?
> Will US Soccer start issuing cease and desist orders for any club or team that uses “Academy” in their name now?


LOL - I wouldn't be surprised


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## outside!

Seven said:


> I’m not sure about them changing their name bc at the end of the announcement it says,  “As a result of this decision, VDA has notified U.S. Soccer that it will not renew its membership into the girls’ Development Academy for 2018-19, but is fully committed to complete the 2017-18 season, including all league games and showcase events. VDA remains committed to the boys’ DA, as well as men and women’s CCL Pro 23 moving forward.”


Odd that they are staying in boy's DA, but withdrawing from girl's. I wonder if US Soccer may consider booting them out of boy's academy in the future in favor of a club that would have both genders.


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## SOCCERMINION

outside! said:


> Odd that they are staying in boy's DA, but withdrawing from girl's. I wonder if US Soccer may consider booting them out of boy's academy in the future in favor of a club that would have both genders.


Anyone herd of rumors that Florida Clubs would be withdrawing from Girl DA next year?


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## futboldad1

SOCCERMINION said:


> Anyone herd of rumors that Florida Clubs would be withdrawing from Girl DA next year?


Yes...


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## Nutmeg

futboldad1 said:


> Yes...


Yes also


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## outside!

Not until I read it here. Almost as if soccer in the US is dividing into regions. Hmmm.


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## SOCCERMINION

Nutmeg said:


> Yes also




Hmm, well i guess lots of unhappy parents and Clubs in Florida,  I hope USSDA is listening and makes some changes.
http://talking-soccer.com/TS4/showthread.php?t=151693


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## SOCCERMINION

outside! said:


> Not until I read it here. Almost as if soccer in the US is dividing into regions. Hmmm.


 That s not what we need, sad that we have predomintly So Cal  clubs / DA and  Nor Cal Clubs / Ecnl in California. last thing we need is some regions DA and others ECNL. Still hoping USSDA and ECNL work it out...But I'm sure by the time that happens if at all, my DD's will be already out of College.


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## MarkM

SOCCERMINION said:


> Hmm, well i guess lots of unhappy parents and Clubs in Florida,  I hope USSDA is listening and makes some changes.
> http://talking-soccer.com/TS4/showthread.php?t=151693


I only read a couple of pages of the forum thread, but didn't see anything surprising.  What changes are you referring to?


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## Bruddah IZ

espola said:


> There's a San Jose Surf now?  WTF?


Watch your language sir and stay informed.


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## SOCCERMINION

Bruddah IZ said:


> Watch your language sir and stay informed.


To help you stay informed, http://affiliates.surfsoccer.com/
San Diego Surf Soccer Club
San Clemente Surf Soccer Club
Ladera Ranch Surf Soccer CLub
Orange County Surf Soccer Club
Anahiem Surf Soccer Club
Murrieta Surf Soccer Club
Inland Empire Surf Soccer Club
San Gabriel Valley Surf Soccer Club
San Jose Surf Soccer Club
Greater Seattle Surf Soccer Club
Washington Surf Soccer Club
Eastern Washington Surf Club
PSPL Surf Soccer Club
Utah Surf Soccer Club
Hawaii Surf Soccer Club
New York Surf Soccer Club


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## SOCCERMINION

MarkM said:


> I only read a couple of pages of the forum thread, but didn't see anything surprising.  What changes are you referring to?


I heard Rumors that Florida Clubs were Dumping DA. I did not find anything to confirm this other than other people saying they herd the same rumor, There seems to be alot of bitterness on the Florida boards, nothing unusual but a lot more complaining than we see here..


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## espola

SOCCERMINION said:


> To help you stay informed, http://affiliates.surfsoccer.com/
> San Diego Surf Soccer Club
> San Clemente Surf Soccer Club
> Ladera Ranch Surf Soccer CLub
> Orange County Surf Soccer Club
> Anahiem Surf Soccer Club
> Murrieta Surf Soccer Club
> Inland Empire Surf Soccer Club
> San Gabriel Valley Surf Soccer Club
> San Jose Surf Soccer Club
> Greater Seattle Surf Soccer Club
> Washington Surf Soccer Club
> Eastern Washington Surf Club
> PSPL Surf Soccer Club
> Utah Surf Soccer Club
> Hawaii Surf Soccer Club
> New York Surf Soccer Club


It would be interesting for a parent of a player on one of the affiliate clubs to post what they found the advantage of affiliation to be.


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## Desert Hound

espola said:


> It would be interesting for a parent of a player on one of the affiliate clubs to post what they found the advantage of affiliation to be.


The advantage? Clearly it is the fact that their uniforms now say SURF.


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## beachbum

I've been hearing rumors that top girls that are in the DA this year are considering moving back to ECNL next year, any truth to that?  Also been hearing that clubs that have DA and ECNL are going to lose ECNL, any truth to that?  Or are they just rumors?


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## Overtime

Also hearing DPL considering DA type model for 2003s as a pilot which would mean year round and no high school.  Sounds like an attempt to hold on to the 2003s that don’t make 02/03 DA.


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## ChargerPride

Kicker4Life said:


> WRONG......Carlsbad Lightening and Carlsbad Wave merged to form Carlsbad United.
> 
> A year later that Carlsbad United became LA Galaxy San Diego.
> 
> A year after that girls development Academy was formed LA Galaxy San Diego was one of the initial clubs credit academy status
> 
> If this was intended as sarcasm, I’ll go ahead and apologize.


Putting my two cents here, my DD plays for Rebels Elite 2001 Marquez, she's an '02 and played against the Wave, Lightening, who merged to United and then became LAGSD. Definitely a strong team deserving of the DA. However it never fails to surprise me how other teams are bypassed who can compete against team like LAGSD and the other top DA teams. A strong example of this is that the Rebels team actually beat LAGSD and went on to win National Cup. Basically not taking anything away from the Finalist, Slammers South, but the reality was that the real Finals was played in that Semi-Final game. Had LAGSD won. I am sure that had  they  prevailed in that game , they would have won National Cup. With that said , I thought it there was a legit chance that Rebels team proved that they are a top team. I believe they should have been awarded a DA spot, a chance to play against elite teams. However they were denied DA this year. Yet when you look back at the standings teams like Albion continue to get the honor of competing in a league that they are ill prepared to play. In the end, DA is much like most leagues. I do not personally know all the whys that allow other clubs and teams to be chosen, but like all leagues. You have the top half that are dominated by the top teams, the above average teams, that would dominate lower leagues, and the bottom of the list. These teams are not totally outclassed, but need more time and a different league, these teams need more development. It would be nice to see these teams removed and put quality teams, kind of like you see on European soccer.


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## MWN

ChargerPride said:


> ...With that said , I thought it there was a legit chance that Rebels team proved that they are a top team. I believe they should have been awarded a DA spot, a chance to play against elite teams. However they were denied DA this year. Yet when you look back at the standings teams like Albion continue to get the honor of competing in a league that they are ill prepared to play. In the end, DA is much like most leagues. I do not personally know all the whys that allow other clubs and teams to be chosen, but like all leagues. ...


The Development Academy, especially on the girls side, is focused on the entire program, not just 1 or 2 teams.  While the Rebels have certainly done very well and are a good program, individual team success is only a minor consideration.  The DA wants clubs that are financially capable of taking on the burden of the DA and can support a path towards fully funded "residential" programs. To this end, it is a mistake to put much weight on a "team's" success as a major factor in a club being awarded the girls DA program.  The DA doesn't care about teams, it cares about player development.  A team that has won national cup is OK, but a program that has sent 5 girls to the youth National team is great.

 The application is online and you can read the FAQ, here are the basics:

*Application Process:*
_The Development Academy Membership Application is broken into seven sections:_

_Section I: Application Procedure_
_Section II: Club Information_
_Section III: Resources_
_Section IV: Facilities_
_Section V: Staffing and Leadership_
_Section VI: Player Development History_
_Section VII: Academy Requirements_
_In order to complete the online application, clubs must send all supporting documents, including the following:_

_Club Philosophy (mission, vision, identity, style, etc.)_
_Annual Training Plan (this includes a detailed plan for activity, training and games)_
_Club Budget for the Academy programs (this includes all revenue and expenses to operate Academy age groups)_
_Additional Player Production (YNT/MNT/WNT players, foreign and/or domestic professional players) *if applicable_
_Additional Staff Listing *if applicable_
The DA model is one of a pyramid.  Lots of U12 to few U18/19.  On the boys side, you can get in with a U12 to U14 team with fewer resources, less facilities, etc.  On the girls side, the DA wants to award fully programs U12-U18/U19, and is as much concerned about resources, facilities, staffing/leadership, etc.  The DOC should have an A License and the staff should have C licenses. 

The public record demonstrates the Rebels have a few challenges, which are not insurmountable, but challenges nonetheless.  Here is what I can tell you:

Financial Resources (2016 990 XML): Rebels had Revenues of $927,856 and expenses of $917,199.  Total assets at EOY were $*215,357*.  At an average cost of about $4,000 per player (4k x 25 Players x 4 Teams) to train DA players, travel, fields, referees, etc., the Rebels would have incurred another $400k in expenses (which is about double its cash reserves).  Compare that to Albion SC (2016 990 XML) - Revenues of $2,287,632, Expenses of $2,243,740, with assets of $*661,335* or San Diego Surf (2015 990) - Revenues of $3,327,957, Expenses of $3,419,295 and assets of $*858,180*.  In sum, the Rebels are a much riskier club from a pure financial perspective.  The DA wants financially healthy clubs that can take on the burden of the DA, the Rebels would have challenges subsidizing the DA given its current size.

Facilities: All I can tell you is the current fields for the Rebels (a few parks and a college) are not impressive.

Coaching licenses: I have no idea what the license level of the coaches are because Rebels does not publish this information.  This is often a major factor as to why programs are not accepted.


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## ChargerPride

MWN said:


> The Development Academy, especially on the girls side, is focused on the entire program, not just 1 or 2 teams.  While the Rebels have certainly done very well and are a good program, individual team success is only a minor consideration.  The DA wants clubs that are financially capable of taking on the burden of the DA and can support a path towards fully funded "residential" programs. To this end, it is a mistake to put much weight on a "team's" success as a major factor in a club being awarded the girls DA program.  The DA doesn't care about teams, it cares about player development.  A team that has won national cup is OK, but a program that has sent 5 girls to the youth National team is great.
> 
> The application is online and you can read the FAQ, here are the basics:
> 
> *Application Process:*
> _The Development Academy Membership Application is broken into seven sections:_
> 
> _Section I: Application Procedure_
> _Section II: Club Information_
> _Section III: Resources_
> _Section IV: Facilities_
> _Section V: Staffing and Leadership_
> _Section VI: Player Development History_
> _Section VII: Academy Requirements_
> _In order to complete the online application, clubs must send all supporting documents, including the following:_
> 
> _Club Philosophy (mission, vision, identity, style, etc.)_
> _Annual Training Plan (this includes a detailed plan for activity, training and games)_
> _Club Budget for the Academy programs (this includes all revenue and expenses to operate Academy age groups)_
> _Additional Player Production (YNT/MNT/WNT players, foreign and/or domestic professional players) *if applicable_
> _Additional Staff Listing *if applicable_
> The DA model is one of a pyramid.  Lots of U12 to few U18/19.  On the boys side, you can get in with a U12 to U14 team with fewer resources, less facilities, etc.  On the girls side, the DA wants to award fully programs U12-U18/U19, and is as much concerned about resources, facilities, staffing/leadership, etc.  The DOC should have an A License and the staff should have C licenses.
> 
> The public record demonstrates the Rebels have a few challenges, which are not insurmountable, but challenges nonetheless.  Here is what I can tell you:
> 
> Financial Resources (2016 990 XML): Rebels had Revenues of $927,856 and expenses of $917,199.  Total assets at EOY were $*215,357*.  At an average cost of about $4,000 per player (4k x 25 Players x 4 Teams) to train DA players, travel, fields, referees, etc., the Rebels would have incurred another $400k in expenses (which is about double its cash reserves).  Compare that to Albion SC (2016 990 XML) - Revenues of $2,287,632, Expenses of $2,243,740, with assets of $*661,335* or San Diego Surf (2015 990) - Revenues of $3,327,957, Expenses of $3,419,295 and assets of $*858,180*.  In sum, the Rebels are a much riskier club from a pure financial perspective.  The DA wants financially healthy clubs that can take on the burden of the DA, the Rebels would have challenges subsidizing the DA given its current size.
> 
> Facilities: All I can tell you is the current fields for the Rebels (a few parks and a college) are not impressive.
> 
> Coaching licenses: I have no idea what the license level of the coaches are because Rebels does not publish this information.  This is often a major factor as to why programs are not accepted.


Nice, very informative, definitely different from the boys as Rebels has a DA team U12.  Although I still hate to say it, just because a club is financially able. Doesn't that mean that they are not really looking to put the best teams up against each other.  I mean isn't DA suppose to spring forth and get the USA a farm system, although new, like those we see worldwide. I didn't know when it came down to picking the best, we seem to focus on the financials. Don't get me wrong , I understand the dynamics. 

So then in your opinion, given the broad range between the top DA and the last place DA team. Why pay the expense to play on a team that just doesn't belong in that same league. I mean I don't mean to put Albion in a bad light, just using the facts as an example.

*Rank* *Southwest - U-16/17 West Division* *GP* *W* *L* *T* *Pts* *GF* *GA* *GD* *Pts/GP*
1 LAFC Slammers U-16/17  [PLAYOFFS 1]           25 21  2  2 65   89   19    70   2.6
14Albion SC U-16/17                                                  25 5   20 0 15   22   87  -65   0.6

Total opposites. I mean for the individual girl who is on the Albion team. Is it really worth playing in the DA team. Is it about the exposure. 
I would imagine with ECNL, Coast Premier, SCDSL, SDDA, National League, CRL, plus and others that I have missed...etc. That each leagues top teams would have players that are USA training worthy.
As a team, my DD will never really know how they stack up and I don't really see me driving 45 plus minutes to either Surf, Albion even further LAGSD.
May have to get her dual citizenship, just kidding, it's all about the red, white and blue when it comes to woman's soccer.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I think you can’t judge whether they belong by the failure of one team in any year to have on field success. If a club has the fininacial resources, coaches and fields the model is built on the idea that the talent will eventually come to the club that will allow it to have some success though someone will always be in last place.


----------



## coachsamy

ChargerPride said:


> Nice, very informative, definitely different from the boys as Rebels has a DA team U12.  Although I still hate to say it, just because a club is financially able. Doesn't that mean that they are not really looking to put the best teams up against each other.  I mean isn't DA suppose to spring forth and get the USA a farm system, although new, like those we see worldwide. I didn't know when it came down to picking the best, we seem to focus on the financials. Don't get me wrong , I understand the dynamics.
> 
> So then in your opinion, given the broad range between the top DA and the last place DA team. Why pay the expense to play on a team that just doesn't belong in that same league. I mean I don't mean to put Albion in a bad light, just using the facts as an example.
> 
> *Rank* *Southwest - U-16/17 West Division* *GP* *W* *L* *T* *Pts* *GF* *GA* *GD* *Pts/GP*
> 1 LAFC Slammers U-16/17  [PLAYOFFS 1]           25 21  2  2 65   89   19    70   2.6
> 14Albion SC U-16/17                                                  25 5   20 0 15   22   87  -65   0.6
> 
> Total opposites. I mean for the individual girl who is on the Albion team. Is it really worth playing in the DA team. Is it about the exposure.
> I would imagine with ECNL, Coast Premier, SCDSL, SDDA, National League, CRL, plus and others that I have missed...etc. That each leagues top teams would have players that are USA training worthy.
> As a team, my DD will never really know how they stack up and I don't really see me driving 45 plus minutes to either Surf, Albion even further LAGSD.
> May have to get her dual citizenship, just kidding, it's all about the red, white and blue when it comes to woman's soccer.


You have to look into perspective too, that is not just plain financials, but historical results as well. Carlsbad, Albion and Surf have produce results in the pre ECNL times. Look at Rebels results before teams in that 01 group left to ECNL, they weren't up there as they are right now. Look at the other age group performances vs. Rebels teams and specially look at the youngers under 12, and you will see that there no results to state a case for Rebels to be in DA as strongly as you state it.

The 01/02 Albion GDA team results are more so a result of the fiasco caused by Tony Sheri and his perv actions, plus they couldn't get some of the top talent available from teams from the East County after those teams in the age group fell apart. 

Be grateful that you found a good environment for your DD and that the team has perform well within its current parameters given.


----------



## MWN

ChargerPride said:


> ...So then in your opinion, given the broad range between the top DA and the last place DA team. Why pay the expense to play on a team that just doesn't belong in that same league. I mean I don't mean to put Albion in a bad light, just using the facts as an example.
> 
> *Rank* *Southwest - U-16/17 West Division* *GP* *W* *L* *T* *Pts* *GF* *GA* *GD* *Pts/GP*
> 1 LAFC Slammers U-16/17  [PLAYOFFS 1]           25 21  2  2 65   89   19    70   2.6
> 14Albion SC U-16/17                                                  25 5   20 0 15   22   87  -65   0.6
> 
> Total opposites. I mean for the individual girl who is on the Albion team. Is it really worth playing in the DA team. Is it about the exposure.
> I would imagine with ECNL, Coast Premier, SCDSL, SDDA, National League, CRL, plus and others that I have missed...etc. That each leagues top teams would have players that are USA training worthy.
> As a team, my DD will never really know how they stack up and I don't really see me driving 45 plus minutes to either Surf, Albion even further LAGSD.
> May have to get her dual citizenship, just kidding, it's all about the red, white and blue when it comes to woman's soccer.


*Why pay expense to be on outmatched team?  Is it worth it?  Is it about exposure?  *No dispute that this particular Albion GDA team was out classed this year.  As this is the first year, clubs are still in a building stage.  There is no dispute that the older Albion teams struggled against the level of competition, but their U15 team did OK (middle of pack). 
U15 = 8/14, 10-9-7, GD= 0;
U16/U17 = 14/14, 5-20-0, GD:-65
U18/U19 = 14/14, 4-15-1, GD:-39

In looking at the U16/U17 team, it appears that 13 of the 29 rostered players where on the previous years 2002 and 2001 Albion CSL Premiere teams.  This infers there was some sort of upheaval in the program and a mass exodus last year, so there is likely a deeper reason that has little to do with the Albion DA program, but a coach impacted building/continuing the team.  (Edit: @coachsamy  addressed above)

As this is the first year, we know its going to take at least 4-5 years for the DA to establish itself as the premiere league for girls.  We also know that the elite talent at the U17+ teams have likely already received scholarship offers, so the motivation to leave their CSL Premiere, SCDSL Champions, CRL, ECNL, etc., team is low.

As this is the first year, in my mind the only reason that 99.5% of the girls have to move to a DA team would be college exposure and the pedigree on the Resume.  The rest (.5%) may have true national team aspirations.  If you are already on an ECNL team, I can't see making a move as benefiting an older too much.  The restrictive HS Play rules are also much more impactful for the girls who tend to really value the social aspect of team sports and the HS experience.  So yes, its worth it if you value exposure.

*Other Leagues Have Great Players*.  Very true, there is some incredible talent, especially in SoCal, with players that can play DI and possibly go beyond to the National Team that will never sniff the DA (boys and girls) or the ECNL.  We know we can't aggregate all the talent into one league, but that doesn't mean we can't try.

*Dual Citizenship / Driving Distance*.  I really think you are looking at this the wrong way.  This is girls, amateur soccer in SoCal.  There is no prize money for winning league or XYZ tournament, or beating teams.  The only financial benefit that 99.99% of girls will receive playing soccer is a scholarship, which can be substantial.  Scholarships are awarded to individual players and not teams.  The goal should be to play on a team that gets the girl in front of college coaches to increase the scholarship opportunities.  If she is on a good Rebels team that plays in the NPL, CRL, etc., then great.  While the opportunities would increase if she was on an ECNL team, she isn't because Rebels are not in the league (maybe they should be).

Elite girls and boys should have the singular goal to go to college.  If soccer can get them some college money, then great.  It should be about exposure, exposure, exposure, exposure.  The DA and ECNL will give them a resume that will get the attention of college coaches.  Everything else will be a struggle, but decent exposure is still possible if the team is CRL, National League, NPL, etc., or the player has ODP.

Playing soccer at a professional level for boys is a horrible decision from a cost/benefit ratio, unless that player is truly one of the best in the world.  For girls its even worse.  There is no legitimate path to make soccer a career if the objective is to make a living wage.  Women's team sports in the US are nothing more than money losing charities.  WNBA (yet to turn a profit), WPSL (yet to turn a profit) - maximum NWSL salary is reportedly $37,800, NWHL (yet to turn a profit), etc., etc.


----------



## Multivitamin

The list is growing on the Best Teams Leaving for ECNL! 
These are Multi-National Championship teams with a multitude of National players.

Hawks
PDA
FC Stars
Eclipse
FC Premier
And more big ones dropping GDA soon!


----------



## coachsamy

Multivitamin said:


> The list is growing on the Best Teams Leaving for ECNL!
> These are Multi-National Championship teams with a multitude of National players.
> 
> Hawks
> PDA
> FC Stars
> Eclipse
> FC Premier
> And more big ones dropping GDA soon!
> 
> View attachment 2386


Money Talk$!


----------



## Slammerdad

Overtime said:


> Also hearing DPL considering DA type model for 2003s as a pilot which would mean year round and no high school.  Sounds like an attempt to hold on to the 2003s that don’t make 02/03 DA.


I would like to hear more on this.....a couple of teams are moving out of ECNL to DPL at '03.  Will the same rules hold fast for DPL that no high school play will be allowed?  Did DPL girls play high school last year (or were they allowed)?  That would change the landscape a little bit in High School soccer and dumb it down more than it is already.


----------



## Overtime

Slammerdad said:


> I would like to hear more on this.....a couple of teams are moving out of ECNL to DPL at '03.  Will the same rules hold fast for DPL that no high school play will be allowed?  Did DPL girls play high school last year (or were they allowed)?  That would change the landscape a little bit in High School soccer and dumb it down more than it is already.


Yes DPL played HS.  The new program would be under the DA as an 03 pilot and not DPL from what I have been told which means US Soccer registered vs Cal South.


----------



## SOCCERMINION

Multivitamin said:


> The list is growing on the Best Teams Leaving for ECNL!
> These are Multi-National Championship teams with a multitude of National players.
> 
> Hawks
> PDA
> FC Stars
> Eclipse
> FC Premier
> And more big ones dropping GDA soon!
> 
> View attachment 2386


This is not a good thing, Just as California is polarized and NorthCal top teams being ECNL clubs and SouthCal top teams being  DA Clubs. We do not need to have West coast top teams DA and East Coast top teams  ECNL. None of this movement helps our girls.  Makes you just wish they would drop all the acronyms and special leagues and titles and just go back to the old days where there was Flight 1, Flight 2 and flight 3 and all the tournaments offered all flights competitive brackets. Now it seams what ever league you are  in your going to have 3 strong teams and many weeks teams , and we are all going to have to pay and travel long distances to play in unbalanced tournaments with stronger teams and very weak teams, just so these Leagues can maintain their, "This is an Elite Special National League" Illusions going. Well, strap in people and get out your check book, these next few years are going to be interesting...


----------



## Multivitamin

SOCCERMINION said:


> This is not a good thing, Just as California is polarized and NorthCal top teams being ECNL clubs and SouthCal top teams being  DA Clubs. We do not need to have West coast top teams DA and East Coast top teams  ECNL. None of this movement helps our girls.  Makes you just wish they would drop all the acronyms and special leagues and titles and just go back to the old days where there was Flight 1, Flight 2 and flight 3 and all the tournaments offered all flights competitive brackets. Now it seams what ever league you are  in your going to have 3 strong teams and many weeks teams , and we are all going to have to pay and travel long distances to play in unbalanced tournaments with stronger teams and very weak teams, just so these Leagues can maintain their, "This is an Elite Special National League" Illusions going. Well, strap in people and get out your check book, these next few years are going to be interesting...




WHY THE FC STARS LEFT!!!

https://www.socceramerica.com/publicati ... ector.html

BRUTALLY HONEST - A REAL CLUB UNDERSTANDS DEVELOPMENT BEFORE RESULTS!!!!

JASON DEWHURST: For us, with the no-entry it became tough, especially with the one-game weekends. Kids just weren’t seeing as much playing time. On the other side of that, the no outside competition. That really kind of went away from our philosophy.

An example:

If a kid was only seeing 15 to 20 minutes on a Saturday in a DA game, then we would like to say to that kid, “Guess what, you're going to play a full game tomorrow with our NPL team.”

But because of the rule of the no outside competition, we weren’t able to do that.

So that was one of the big things for us and we didn’t see that changing. That was something we constantly heard about from our members, parents.

SA: What was another important issue?

JASON DEWHURST: The second one I would say is the double age group, specifically next year at the 2002, 2003 age group. For example, we have a current U-15 team, 2003s, and these players have given up high school soccer, they’ve committed to the DA, they’ve committed to our program. And then within a year, more than likely, more than half those kids will probably be cut from the program, because it goes to a double age group -- to 02/03 [in 2018-19, U-16/17].

For us, we thought that was unacceptable for those players. To come in and give up high school soccer is a huge deal in our area. That caused a lot of anxiety from the parents as the season is coming to an end. What are we going to do next year?

That was something we brought up whenever we spoke to the Federation. We said we would like to see the single age group, and obviously that hasn’t happened.

SA: Kids having to sacrifice playing high school soccer to commit to the DA ... was that one of the main issues?

JASON DEWHURST: Yes, but more so in our area, the private school issue. We have a lot of private school players within our system and they have to play high school sports. And we as a club from Day 1 decided that we were not going to [ask for] waivers. And the reason for that is because I don’t think you can look one kid in the eye and say, “Listen, because you’re a private school kid we’re going to give you a waiver and you can play high school,” and look another kid in the eye and say, “Guess what, because you don’t go to private school, we’re going to make you give up high school soccer.”

[Editor’s note: According to the DA regulations: “Players who receive consideration or financial aid to attend a private high school based on their participation with the soccer team are eligible” for waivers to allow them “to remain on their clubs Academy roster during the high school soccer season.”]

For us, we made that decision from Day 1. We stood by it. But the reality is that prohibited a lot of our top players from playing in the DA. And that would have continued. Other clubs have done waivers.

SA: These issues -- the sub rules, ban on outside competition and high school play -- are ones the Federation doesn’t plan on altering?

JASON DEWHURST: They were three things we shared with the Federation. We’ve been very upfront about it. We’ve had very civil conversations with the Federation about what we’ve done, and the reasons we’ve done it and the process, so now we’ll move on.

SA: When U.S. Soccer launched the DA, there were some who predicted that top clubs and players would eventually migrate to the DA. How do you things will look five years from now?

JASON DEWHURST: I really don’t know. At the end of the day, we looked at it from our club’s standpoint. We did it because throughout the year the feedback we got from our families and that’s how we made the decision, because we thought it was the best for our club [to leave the DA].

Other clubs, the DA works for them, in different markets. I’m not going to say one’s better than the other.

SA: When I interviewed Anson Dorrance in February, he suggested U.S. Soccer “marry together” the Girls DA and the ECNL. Can you imagine a future in which the DA and the ECNL work together?

JASON DEWHURST: I don’t think I can even comment on that because I don’t know. People have said it would be great if they could work together. Right now, they’re two separate entities.

https://www.socceramerica.com/publicati ... ector.html


----------



## Kicker4Life

Multivitamin said:


> WHY THE FC STARS LEFT!!!
> 
> https://www.socceramerica.com/publicati ... ector.html
> 
> BRUTALLY HONEST - A REAL CLUB UNDERSTANDS DEVELOPMENT BEFORE RESULTS!!!!
> 
> JASON DEWHURST: For us, with the no-entry it became tough, especially with the one-game weekends. Kids just weren’t seeing as much playing time. On the other side of that, the no outside competition. That really kind of went away from our philosophy.
> 
> An example:
> 
> If a kid was only seeing 15 to 20 minutes on a Saturday in a DA game, then we would like to say to that kid, “Guess what, you're going to play a full game tomorrow with our NPL team.”
> 
> But because of the rule of the no outside competition, we weren’t able to do that.
> 
> So that was one of the big things for us and we didn’t see that changing. That was something we constantly heard about from our members, parents.
> 
> SA: What was another important issue?
> 
> JASON DEWHURST: The second one I would say is the double age group, specifically next year at the 2002, 2003 age group. For example, we have a current U-15 team, 2003s, and these players have given up high school soccer, they’ve committed to the DA, they’ve committed to our program. And then within a year, more than likely, more than half those kids will probably be cut from the program, because it goes to a double age group -- to 02/03 [in 2018-19, U-16/17].
> 
> For us, we thought that was unacceptable for those players. To come in and give up high school soccer is a huge deal in our area. That caused a lot of anxiety from the parents as the season is coming to an end. What are we going to do next year?
> 
> That was something we brought up whenever we spoke to the Federation. We said we would like to see the single age group, and obviously that hasn’t happened.
> 
> SA: Kids having to sacrifice playing high school soccer to commit to the DA ... was that one of the main issues?
> 
> JASON DEWHURST: Yes, but more so in our area, the private school issue. We have a lot of private school players within our system and they have to play high school sports. And we as a club from Day 1 decided that we were not going to [ask for] waivers. And the reason for that is because I don’t think you can look one kid in the eye and say, “Listen, because you’re a private school kid we’re going to give you a waiver and you can play high school,” and look another kid in the eye and say, “Guess what, because you don’t go to private school, we’re going to make you give up high school soccer.”
> 
> [Editor’s note: According to the DA regulations: “Players who receive consideration or financial aid to attend a private high school based on their participation with the soccer team are eligible” for waivers to allow them “to remain on their clubs Academy roster during the high school soccer season.”]
> 
> For us, we made that decision from Day 1. We stood by it. But the reality is that prohibited a lot of our top players from playing in the DA. And that would have continued. Other clubs have done waivers.
> 
> SA: These issues -- the sub rules, ban on outside competition and high school play -- are ones the Federation doesn’t plan on altering?
> 
> JASON DEWHURST: They were three things we shared with the Federation. We’ve been very upfront about it. We’ve had very civil conversations with the Federation about what we’ve done, and the reasons we’ve done it and the process, so now we’ll move on.
> 
> SA: When U.S. Soccer launched the DA, there were some who predicted that top clubs and players would eventually migrate to the DA. How do you things will look five years from now?
> 
> JASON DEWHURST: I really don’t know. At the end of the day, we looked at it from our club’s standpoint. We did it because throughout the year the feedback we got from our families and that’s how we made the decision, because we thought it was the best for our club [to leave the DA].
> 
> Other clubs, the DA works for them, in different markets. I’m not going to say one’s better than the other.
> 
> SA: When I interviewed Anson Dorrance in February, he suggested U.S. Soccer “marry together” the Girls DA and the ECNL. Can you imagine a future in which the DA and the ECNL work together?
> 
> JASON DEWHURST: I don’t think I can even comment on that because I don’t know. People have said it would be great if they could work together. Right now, they’re two separate entities.
> 
> https://www.socceramerica.com/publicati ... ector.html


Despite my annoyance that every one of your posts is in some way anti DA, I completely agree with the fact that there is not a need for 2 separate leagues.  One Elite league with proper geographic representation.

Just please stop regurgitating the same story on various threads.


----------



## coachsamy

Multivitamin said:


> WHY THE FC STARS LEFT!!!
> 
> https://www.socceramerica.com/publicati ... ector.html
> 
> BRUTALLY HONEST - A REAL CLUB UNDERSTANDS DEVELOPMENT BEFORE RESULTS!!!!
> 
> JASON DEWHURST: For us, with the no-entry it became tough, especially with the one-game weekends. Kids just weren’t seeing as much playing time. On the other side of that, the no outside competition. That really kind of went away from our philosophy.
> 
> An example:
> 
> If a kid was only seeing 15 to 20 minutes on a Saturday in a DA game, then we would like to say to that kid, “Guess what, you're going to play a full game tomorrow with our NPL team.”
> 
> But because of the rule of the no outside competition, we weren’t able to do that.
> 
> So that was one of the big things for us and we didn’t see that changing. That was something we constantly heard about from our members, parents.
> 
> SA: What was another important issue?
> 
> JASON DEWHURST: The second one I would say is the double age group, specifically next year at the 2002, 2003 age group. For example, we have a current U-15 team, 2003s, and these players have given up high school soccer, they’ve committed to the DA, they’ve committed to our program. And then within a year, more than likely, more than half those kids will probably be cut from the program, because it goes to a double age group -- to 02/03 [in 2018-19, U-16/17].
> 
> For us, we thought that was unacceptable for those players. To come in and give up high school soccer is a huge deal in our area. That caused a lot of anxiety from the parents as the season is coming to an end. What are we going to do next year?
> 
> That was something we brought up whenever we spoke to the Federation. We said we would like to see the single age group, and obviously that hasn’t happened.
> 
> SA: Kids having to sacrifice playing high school soccer to commit to the DA ... was that one of the main issues?
> 
> JASON DEWHURST: Yes, but more so in our area, the private school issue. We have a lot of private school players within our system and they have to play high school sports. And we as a club from Day 1 decided that we were not going to [ask for] waivers. And the reason for that is because I don’t think you can look one kid in the eye and say, “Listen, because you’re a private school kid we’re going to give you a waiver and you can play high school,” and look another kid in the eye and say, “Guess what, because you don’t go to private school, we’re going to make you give up high school soccer.”
> 
> [Editor’s note: According to the DA regulations: “Players who receive consideration or financial aid to attend a private high school based on their participation with the soccer team are eligible” for waivers to allow them “to remain on their clubs Academy roster during the high school soccer season.”]
> 
> For us, we made that decision from Day 1. We stood by it. But the reality is that prohibited a lot of our top players from playing in the DA. And that would have continued. Other clubs have done waivers.
> 
> SA: These issues -- the sub rules, ban on outside competition and high school play -- are ones the Federation doesn’t plan on altering?
> 
> JASON DEWHURST: They were three things we shared with the Federation. We’ve been very upfront about it. We’ve had very civil conversations with the Federation about what we’ve done, and the reasons we’ve done it and the process, so now we’ll move on.
> 
> SA: When U.S. Soccer launched the DA, there were some who predicted that top clubs and players would eventually migrate to the DA. How do you things will look five years from now?
> 
> JASON DEWHURST: I really don’t know. At the end of the day, we looked at it from our club’s standpoint. We did it because throughout the year the feedback we got from our families and that’s how we made the decision, because we thought it was the best for our club [to leave the DA].
> 
> Other clubs, the DA works for them, in different markets. I’m not going to say one’s better than the other.
> 
> SA: When I interviewed Anson Dorrance in February, he suggested U.S. Soccer “marry together” the Girls DA and the ECNL. Can you imagine a future in which the DA and the ECNL work together?
> 
> JASON DEWHURST: I don’t think I can even comment on that because I don’t know. People have said it would be great if they could work together. Right now, they’re two separate entities.
> 
> https://www.socceramerica.com/publicati ... ector.html


Translation: We are at risk of losing significant amount of $$$ from parents of players that are not elite enough to earn playing time in a highly competitive environment. 

If any of these DoC's are really concerned about playing time, they will stop carrying football teams sized rosters.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Kicker4Life said:


> Despite my annoyance that every one of your posts is in some way anti DA, I completely agree with the fact that there is not a need for 2 separate leagues.  One Elite league with proper geographic representation.
> 
> Just please stop regurgitating the same story on various threads.


Some times pills are hard to swallow.


----------



## timbuck

Will all of the teams that called their teams “pre-academy” now change their names to “post-academy”?


----------



## Zen

Another 3 clubs added to ECNL next season:
http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2018/04/26/3-more-all-in-girls-ecnl-clubs-for-2018-19-indiana-fire-la-breakers-fc-and-susa-fc/


----------



## Justafan

Zen said:


> Another 3 clubs added to ECNL next season:
> http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2018/04/26/3-more-all-in-girls-ecnl-clubs-for-2018-19-indiana-fire-la-breakers-fc-and-susa-fc/


Wasn't FC LA itself a merger of a couple of clubs?


----------



## LadiesMan217

Zen said:


> Another 3 clubs added to ECNL next season:
> http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2018/04/26/3-more-all-in-girls-ecnl-clubs-for-2018-19-indiana-fire-la-breakers-fc-and-susa-fc/


Why are you posting ECNL in this thread. Move over to the AYSO thread.


----------



## Zen

LadiesMan217 said:


> Why are you posting ECNL in this thread. Move over to the AYSO thread.


One of these clubs was DA...but I'm commenting in the wrong region.  If DA doesn't adapt some super simple rule changes, it'll become more of a top Socal league after next season.  Hopefully they do, so we can have a TRUE top league nationally.  For now, DA is a top league in a few key regions...and less next year.  Your comment is indicative of the ignorance and arrogance of those that run that league.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kicker4Life said:


> Despite my annoyance that every one of your posts is in some way anti DA, I completely agree with the fact that there is not a need for 2 separate leagues.  One Elite league with proper geographic representation.
> 
> Just please stop regurgitating the same story on various threads.


So you admit that GDA wasn't needed?  ECNL was doing very well and US Soccer didn't care about the girls into they figured out that they could make some $$$$.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MakeAPlay said:


> So you admit that GDA wasn't needed?  ECNL was doing very well and US Soccer didn't care about the girls into they figured out that they could make some $$$$.


I believe I have said that on numberous occasions from the start.   ECNL’s mutual exclusivity enabled DA to take hold in SoCal.


----------



## outside!

Kicker4Life said:


> ECNL’s mutual exclusivity enabled DA to take hold in SoCal.


Was that the part where ECNL was either being corrupt by allowing then current ECNL clubs to maintain their local monopolies, or the part where ECNL was stupidly ignoring local competitive clubs?


----------



## MakeAPlay

outside! said:


> Was that the part where ECNL was either being corrupt by allowing then current ECNL clubs to maintain their local monopolies, or the part where ECNL was stupidly ignoring local competitive clubs?


I think that it was the part where everything was working fine and now it isn't.  Most of these locally "competitive" clubs had and still have no record of getting players to the highest level or winning seriously contested championships and that has yet to change.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kicker4Life said:


> I believe I have said that on numberous occasions from the start.   ECNL’s mutual exclusivity enabled DA to take hold in SoCal.


And getting it into the hands of the brain trust at US Soccer has totally helped.....


----------



## outside!

MakeAPlay said:


> I think that it was the part where everything was working fine and now it isn't.  Most of these locally "competitive" clubs had and still have no record of getting players to the highest level or winning seriously contested championships and that has yet to change.


That is just it, it was not working fine in Southern California. SoCal clubs were travelling to play games that were no better competition than they could get at home. You can refuse to accept this fact, but it is still a fact. When Surf's ECNL National Champs team lost in the 1/4 finals of Surf Cup to a local, non-ECNL team, it was just one of the signs that ECNL were either naively ignoring reality, or were trying to protect Collen Chester's monopoly. So which is it? Was ECNL ignorant, or corrupt?


----------



## Real Deal

MakeAPlay said:


> I think that it was the part where everything was working fine and now it isn't.  Most of these locally "competitive" clubs had and still have no record of getting players to the highest level or winning seriously contested championships and that has yet to change.


It's changing right now... in this region at least


----------



## outside!

Real Deal said:


> It's changing right now... in this region at least


I know of one YWNT player that came from a non-ECNL club a few years before GDA.


----------



## MakeAPlay

outside! said:


> That is just it, it was not working fine in Southern California. SoCal clubs were travelling to play games that were no better competition than they could get at home. You can refuse to accept this fact, but it is still a fact. When Surf's ECNL National Champs team lost in the 1/4 finals of Surf Cup to a local, non-ECNL team, it was just one of the signs that ECNL were either naively ignoring reality, or were trying to protect Collen Chester's monopoly. So which is it? Was ECNL ignorant, or corrupt?


That is simply not true and you can continue to say it's a banana when it is an apple but that doesn't change the facts.  The local competition was nowhere close to what you could get by going and playing on the road.  I'm sorry but the local teams weren't of the same quality as PDA, Eclipse Select, Real Colorado, FC Stars, Crossfire and more!  You are really naive if you believe otherwise.  

I understand that you are a Carlsbad homer but there is a reason that the best North San Diego county players go to Surf or Blues.  

I think that Thanos puts it best.

 "I know what it’s like to lose. To feel so desperately that you’re right, yet to fail nonetheless. As lightning turns the legs to jelly. I ask you to what end? Dread it, run from it, destiny arrives all the same."  Thanos of Titan


----------



## MakeAPlay

outside! said:


> I know of one YWNT player that came from a non-ECNL club a few years before GDA.


Are we still talking about YNT players?  The YNT pools are a joke.  The best players aren't just good in training.  And I know a whole bunch of YNT players that came from ECNL clubs including the only two Full WNT players that never played in college.  Checkmate.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

MakeAPlay said:


> So you admit that GDA wasn't needed?  ECNL was doing very well and US Soccer didn't care about the girls into they figured out that they could make some $$$$.[/QUOT


I don't agree with your comment about it being about money.  Other than possible sponsorship money and DA merchandise, I don't see how they are making much money.  The only fee the collect from the clubs is a $50 fee per player and coach for registration fees.   There is a performance bond a club needs to post to be in the DA but is relatively small and refundable.   They provide all event fees (no tournament/showcase fees to attend) and all referee fees for all league and showcase games.  At showcases their are multiple medical stations, ice baths, free water, Powerade, fruit and snacks not only for players but for spectators too.   The DA merchandise they sell is no different than what is sold at Surf Cup or the Players Showcase.   They have scouts at every field and film every game.   

In my opinion, US Soccer is losing money by running the USSDA.  

Now the argument to make is whether the clubs are making much money by having DA.   My assessment here is that appears to be more a break even operation.


----------



## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> I don't agree with your comment about it being about money.  Other than possible sponsorship money and DA merchandise, I don't see how they are making much money.  The only fee the collect from the clubs is a $50 fee per player and coach for registration fees.   There is a performance bond a club needs to post to be in the DA but is relatively small and refundable.   They provide all event fees (no tournament/showcase fees to attend) and all referee fees for all league and showcase games.  At showcases their are multiple medical stations, ice baths, free water, Powerade, fruit and snacks not only for players but for spectators too.   The DA merchandise they sell is no different than what is sold at Surf Cup or the Players Showcase.   They have scouts at every field and film every game.
> 
> In my opinion, US Soccer is losing money by running the USSDA.
> 
> Now the argument to make is whether the clubs are making much money by having DA.   My assessment here is that appears to be more a break even operation.


They would not do it if it was break even. They are reaping the rewards of status. Being a DA club attracts more players at all levels.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Fact said:


> They would not do it if it was break even. They are reaping the rewards of status. Being a DA club attracts more players at all levels.


Does it attract more players than being in ECNL?  I personally don't think there is more than a marginal amount of you money you can make through attracting more players because your expenses increase with every player.  The real money is made by running tournaments and charging parents for parking.


----------



## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> Does it attract more players than being in ECNL?  I personally don't think there is more than a marginal amount of you money you can make through attracting more players because your expenses increase with every player.  The real money is made by running tournaments and charging parents for parking.


Fine lets assume you are right. More players even at a break even allow for you to enter more teams in other clubs tournaments and they reciprocate with the same number of teams in your tournament ...so more tournament money.

Also more players, means more games and thus more parking money.  Want to argue this too?


----------



## Kicker4Life

MakeAPlay said:


> I think that it was the part where everything was working fine and now it isn't.  Most of these locally "competitive" clubs had and still have no record of getting players to the highest level or winning seriously contested championships and that has yet to change.


That is factually in accurate at least for Beach and honestly my region is all I truly care about. 

So DMCV and the new club which is essentially Westside Breakers has their track record you speak of?

We have had this conversation multiple times and in the end we always end up agreeing. So I’m not really sure why it is coming up again.


----------



## outside!

MakeAPlay said:


> Are we still talking about YNT players?  The YNT pools are a joke.  The best players aren't just good in training.  And I know a whole bunch of YNT players that came from ECNL clubs including the only two Full WNT players that never played in college.  Checkmate.


This may be the first time I have ever mentioned YNT players on the forum. I do not believe that any of these players are "jokes". They are someone's children and they have worked very hard to get to where they are at.

Things change MAP. ECNL was not keeping up and it cost them. GDA has made a ton of mistakes, but the simple fact that they attracted so many SoCal clubs shows that ECNL was ignoring reality. My personal biggest problem with both ECNL and GDA is that they are closed leagues. There should be a way for top unaffiliated teams to play against ECNL/GDA teams. If ECNL/GDA would have compromised and formed one league, they could have then used National League/National Championships as a way for non-member teams/clubs to play into some kind of national competition. There will come a time when a upstart club/team will have a team that is better than what we call the "elite" teams. These teams may exist right now, but we have no way of knowing.


----------



## timmyh

For what is worth, the Dallas Texans have dropped ECNL and the Texas DA clubs have created their own DPL league for their 2nd teams. ECNL may be making gains in some parts of the country at the DA's expense, but in Texas ECNL is on life support and the DA has won.


----------



## GoWest

timmyh said:


> For what is worth, the Dallas Texans have dropped ECNL and the Texas DA clubs have created their own DPL league for their 2nd teams. ECNL may be making gains in some parts of the country at the DA's expense, but in Texas ECNL is on life support and the DA has won.


I looked up the club article announcing DT all-in for GDA. I am curious if I missed something else with regard to other TX ECNL clubs leaving? I think that leaves 9 or so TX clubs still in ECNL? Maybe ECNL expands by one or two in TX to counter the loss?


----------



## MWN

Simisoccerfan said:


> I don't agree with your comment about it being about money.  Other than possible sponsorship money and DA merchandise, I don't see how they are making much money.  The only fee the collect from the clubs is a $50 fee per player and coach for registration fees.   There is a performance bond a club needs to post to be in the DA but is relatively small and refundable.   They provide all event fees (no tournament/showcase fees to attend) and all referee fees for all league and showcase games.  At showcases their are multiple medical stations, ice baths, free water, Powerade, fruit and snacks not only for players but for spectators too.   The DA merchandise they sell is no different than what is sold at Surf Cup or the Players Showcase.   They have scouts at every field and film every game.
> 
> In my opinion, US Soccer is losing money by running the USSDA.
> 
> Now the argument to make is whether the clubs are making much money by having DA.   My assessment here is that appears to be more a break even operation.





Fact said:


> They would not do it if it was break even. They are reaping the rewards of status. Being a DA club attracts more players at all levels.


From a USSF perspective the DA is a money loser and part of their "mission" as a non-profit.  Which is to elevate the level of youth soccer so we remain competitive on the girls side by sending them to college and maybe send a few male players to Europe to become real professionals so we can suck them back onto the US National Team and finish better than 16th in the World Cup.  The USSF knows that professional soccer in the US is not established.  There is no 2nd, 3rd or below levels that can make money, let alone invest in players.  The USSF has the MLS which operates like the 1960's Soviet Union and is doomed to mediocrity unless changes are made in the future.

Without an actual money making professional program to compete with the European leagues, the only way to wrangle the development of boys and girls was to form a Development League and convince the US clubs to foot the bill.  

The model is the USSF spends a few million on youth development from their World Cup receivables, but makes the "clubs" that are members bear the financial brunt.
The model for the clubs is to "market" themselves as elite programs to get dollars out of parents who think Johnny or Joanne has the chops to make it to college or the pros.  The DA clubs are nothing but money losing teams (break even at best) that are funded on the backs of the Flight 3-1, Bronze-Premier, AC-SDDA F1, etc.  

@Simisoccerfan is correct, US Soccer is losing money.

@Fact is correct, the DA is simply a marketing ploy/scheme/program to attract money paying parents to clubs with DA teams.  The lower ranks happily subsidize the DA because they believe that someday their little one will be on the DA team.


----------



## MWN

Simisoccerfan said:


> Does it attract more players than being in ECNL?  I personally don't think there is more than a marginal amount of you money you can make through attracting more players because your expenses increase with every player.  The real money is made by running tournaments and charging parents for parking.


For the record, facilities keep the parking (rarely do clubs/tournament promoters get any parking beyond a dollar or two), its part of the economics of facilities.  The clubs get lower field fields, which help the bottom line.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

GDA will be alive and strong in So Cal but it appears to be falling apart everywhere else.

Hawks, PDA, Texans, Eclipse all dumped DA.  Florida clubs are to follow and more to come by the fall.  Nor cal powers like Mustang, Davis and MVLA have not jumped on board and remains relatively weak aside for the Earthquakes.


----------



## timmyh

eastbaysoccer said:


> GDA will be alive and strong in So Cal but it appears to be falling apart everywhere else.
> 
> Hawks, PDA, Texans, Eclipse all dumped DA.  Florida clubs are to follow and more to come by the fall.  Nor cal powers like Mustang, Davis and MVLA have not jumped on board and remains relatively weak aside for the Earthquakes.


Your info isn't quite correct. Texans dropped ECNL and are DA only. 
DA has routed ECNL in Texas. That battle is over.


----------



## shales1002

GoWest said:


> I looked up the club article announcing DT all-in for GDA. I am curious if I missed something else with regard to other TX ECNL clubs leaving? I think that leaves 9 or so TX clubs still in ECNL? Maybe ECNL expands by one or two in TX to counter the loss?


I did the same @GoWest  . They still have 9 clubs. Losing ONE club isn’t quite the life support and sky is falling scenario. Just wondering if Texans actually lost ECNL and claiming to be walking away. Just curious. All I read about was others posters wanted to be “all in ecnl”. But hey float your narrative @timmyh .


----------



## eastbaysoccer

The true narrative and fact is the DA started 10 years or so ago for the boys and 10 years later they  find themselves at home Missing the World Cup.   Clearly as the richest country in the World with a population dwarfing Iceland one would think this clearly is not working.

Let’s go to one relegation league based on the “team” not the club and get rid of ecnl, GDA and all the other garbage.


----------



## Fact

Not hard to tell what is timmyh’s agenda when you look at all his posts . Hate on Texas ECNL.

@timmyh take your our advice “This place would be better without you guys airing out grudges and getting personal and cluttering up threads.”


----------



## Kicker4Life

eastbaysoccer said:


> The true narrative and fact is the DA started 10 years or so ago for the boys and 10 years later they  find themselves at home Missing the World Cup.   Clearly as the richest country in the World with a population dwarfing Iceland one would think this clearly is not working.
> 
> Let’s go to one relegation league based on the “team” not the club and get rid of ecnl, GDA and all the other garbage.


By the way, the US isn’t the only country that will not be at the World Cup.  Some countries with a Rich, Successful Futbol heratige also find themselves watching the WC from the stands. 

Everyone has their own narrative that advances their agenda.  I don’t know much about the Boys DA but 10 years is not that long and hopefully some of the better players are getting plucked from DA into Professional Academies where they will really develop.


----------



## futboldad1

Kicker4Life said:


> By the way, the US isn’t the only country that will not be at the World Cup.  Some countries with a Rich, Successful Futbol heratige also find themselves watching the WC from the stands.
> 
> Everyone has their own narrative that advances their agenda.  I don’t know much about the Boys DA but 10 years is not that long and hopefully some of the better players are getting plucked from DA into Professional Academies where they will really develop.


Did you see the bracket that the US was in? Absolute joke to not qualify from that and cannot be compared to the South American or European brackets unless you're a USSF flag waver.


----------



## outside!

futboldad1 said:


> Absolute joke to not qualify from that and cannot be compared to the South American or European brackets unless you're a USSF flag waver.


Unless they are in an offside position and effect play.


----------



## Kicker4Life

futboldad1 said:


> Did you see the bracket that the US was in? Absolute joke to not qualify from that and cannot be compared to the South American or European brackets unless you're a USSF flag waver.


I hear you and that is a very valid point.  Do you blame the players or the coaches for the USSF?  I’m a USA flag waiver...not much of a fan of the USSF as an institution or Suneel (and his prodigies) as leaders of it but that is for another thread. 

As for DA v ECNL I firmly believe it becomes a geographic matter across the Country and in the larger geographic regions DA will struggle mainly do to the HS issue.


----------



## MakeAPlay

outside! said:


> This may be the first time I have ever mentioned YNT players on the forum. I do not believe that any of these players are "jokes". They are someone's children and they have worked very hard to get to where they are at.
> 
> Things change MAP. ECNL was not keeping up and it cost them. GDA has made a ton of mistakes, but the simple fact that they attracted so many SoCal clubs shows that ECNL was ignoring reality. My personal biggest problem with both ECNL and GDA is that they are closed leagues. There should be a way for top unaffiliated teams to play against ECNL/GDA teams. If ECNL/GDA would have compromised and formed one league, they could have then used National League/National Championships as a way for non-member teams/clubs to play into some kind of national competition. There will come a time when a upstart club/team will have a team that is better than what we call the "elite" teams. These teams may exist right now, but we have no way of knowing.


First of all, at no point did I say that YNT players are a joke.  I said the YNT (youth national team) system is a joke. Secondly, every kid out on the pitch laying it on the line every week has worked hard to get to where they are and that is not something exclusive to them.  ECNL was much more responsive to it's members than GDA is simply because it was run by the clubs.  The ECNL clubs are responsive because they serve their customers (paying parents).  On the girls side there is little way to remove the pay to play from the system until our domestic league becomes independently sustainable.  Finally regarding an open system, you are missing the point of GDA and ECNL and that is to service varying slices of the elite girls soccer pyramid.  Who really cares about the team that wins the national championship.  The only championship that really mattered was the ODP championships and that has been devalued recently.  At the end of the day it colleges and national teams recruit players not teams.

Keep thinking things are changing and that this is about the kids.  They aren't and it isn't.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Real Deal

Kicker4Life said:


> As for DA v ECNL I firmly believe it becomes a geographic matter across the Country and in the larger geographic regions DA will struggle mainly do to the HS issue.


I don't know.  Why does anyone care that much about high school soccer for their kids?  It was being highly discouraged prior to DA, by coaches and, yes, ECNL ones too.  The reason being:  It is the bad soccer injury capitol of the universe!  Not even counting overuse....  I think it's just being used as an excuse by clubs who are being revealed by GDA as maybe not as "elite" as they seemed.  I wonder, if US Soccer changed the rules tomorrow, would these clubs jump back in?

Anyway, I would way rather have my kids getting recruited to colleges while in high school, than playing high school soccer.  They can try track or hoops or something where they won't get killed. 

As long as GDA proves to be a viable college recruiting platform, providing the necessary training for the next level, I can't see it going away. 

And if the majority of future WNT players come from SoCal and Texas, well then, so be it


----------



## MakeAPlay

Real Deal said:


> I don't know.  Why does anyone care that much about high school soccer for their kids?  It was being highly discouraged prior to DA, by coaches and, yes, ECNL ones too.  The reason being:  It is the bad soccer injury capitol of the universe!  Not even counting overuse....  I think it's just being used as an excuse by clubs who are being revealed by GDA as maybe not as "elite" as they seemed.  I wonder, if US Soccer changed the rules tomorrow, would these clubs jump back in?
> 
> Anyway, I would way rather have my kids getting recruited to colleges while in high school, than playing high school soccer.  They can try track or hoops or something where they won't get killed.
> 
> As long as GDA proves to be a viable college recruiting platform, providing the necessary training for the next level, I can't see it going away.
> 
> And if the majority of future WNT players come from SoCal and Texas, well then, so be it


This view seems very parochial.  Kids shouldn't have to choose elite soccer versus playing with their friends.  Doesn't GDA also mandate no other high school sports?  My player was county athlete of the year her senior year of high school and it was due to her playing multiple sports at a high level.  It didn't stop her from playing more minutes than any other field player the girst 2 years of her college career at a school that has top 5 team.  If your player cannot handle physical play D1 college soccer might not be for her and that is a fact.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Real Deal

MakeAPlay said:


> This view seems very parochial.  Kids shouldn't have to choose elite soccer versus playing with their friends.  Doesn't GDA also mandate no other high school sports?  My player was county athlete of the year her senior year of high school and it was due to her playing multiple sports at a high level.  It didn't stop her from playing more minutes than any other field player the girst 2 years of her college career at a school that has top 5 team.  If your player cannot handle physical play D1 college soccer might not be for her and that is a fact.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


Fair enough.  But I will note that physical soccer and bad soccer are two different things. And that too much soccer in general leads to overuse injuries.  Do understand, though, that at the right high school you can gain fun accolades and win a championship and that can be a great experience.

So--I am most curious to know your opinion on this:
If the "no high school rule" were to change tomorrow, would these clubs jump back on board, and would folks like you be more inclined to accept GDA?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Real Deal said:


> Fair enough.  But I will note that physical soccer and bad soccer are two different things. And that too much soccer in general leads to overuse injuries.  Do understand, though, that at the right high school you can gain fun accolades and win a championship and that can be a great experience.
> 
> So--I am most curious to know your opinion on this:
> If the "no high school rule" were to change tomorrow, would these clubs jump back on board, and would folks like you be more inclined to accept GDA?


I was never against what the pie in the sky goals of the GDA were originally intended to be.  My problem is that it is a lie.  If their goal was to create these elite players for the national team then they need to fully fund it, pick the players regionally and have them play and train together on a different track from the pseudo elite players.  In SoCal there are only about 25-35 players per age group that should be in a program like that not the 300+ per age group that are in the program.  For all but maybe 1-4 per age group college is going to be the highest level that they ever play.  Why not have a track for that?  GDA is not that track and it is not elite only like ODP.  So what is it supposed to be?  Personally I didn't want my player to play high school out of fear but she wanted to play and never got injured.  She got to play with her friends (they were never good enough to play with her past AYSO) and it made her happy.  One of those friends she has known since elementary school and now they go to college together.  Whenever I see her friend she always talks about how great those 2 years (she was on frosh/soph and JV her first two years while my kid was on Varsity all 4 years) that they played together were.  Life is about the journey and soccer is only a small part of it even if your kid is a future national team player.  Unless they are getting offered SIGNIFICANT money to forgo it (think Wes McKinnie, Tim Weah or Christian Pulisic) let them play.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MWN

Real Deal said:


> I don't know.  Why does anyone care that much about high school soccer for their kids?


Because its fun.  My son absolutely loved it.  Trying to make the varsity team as a freshman, playing with his schoolmates and meeting new kids from the school that he now had something in common with, going to practice after school with that kid from Spanish class, that kid from biology, the silent nods from the upperclassman when walking down the hall between classes, the comradery and sense of pride when all the soccer players (Freshman, JV and Varsity) wore their school soccer polo shirts on game day, riding on the bus to an away game, having the cheerleaders make a poster with the boy's name on it, having the girls team cheer them on during their playoff run, playing in a stadium filled with parents and classmates, etc., etc.

HS soccer may have its negatives, but in SoCal, at least at our school, the coaches for the Varsity and JV team are each local Club coaches and the same is true for virtually every school in our league.  The kids that make the teams are almost all club kids and I can honestly say that my son's team played a better brand of soccer than his last two club teams.

We ask so much of our kids, do well in school, devote 2-4 hours a day to practice a few times a week (mine is a GK), chores, and other things that might not be fun.  Humans (including our sons and daughters and especially our daughters) are social animals and playing for the High School team is just plain fun and an experience that club soccer does not provide.

When roughly 8-9% of kids will ever play in college at any level and the odds of getting a scholarship are even less, why on earth would we as parents/adults permit some A-Hole with US Soccer in Chicago to dictate to our kids they can't have fun for a few months?

Various scientific studies have found the injury rate is slightly lower in HS soccer (2.6 per 1k AEH) v. Club (3.0 per 1k AEH).   (see, http://www.apta.org/PTinMotion/News/2017/3/22/HSSoccerInjuries/ and http://natajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.4085/1062-6050-45.3.238?code=nata-site)  Note, anybody claiming different is relying on anecdotal evidence, which is inherently unreliable.

Bottom line ... they are kids.  If they want to play HS soccer let them.  Its fun.  If they don't, OK that is their choice.  The only exception in my mind is if you have a truly gifted athlete that is invited to the US Soccer National Youth Team Camp.  Otherwise, a few month break playing HS soccer isn't going to impact much at all.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MakeAPlay said:


> Doesn't GDA also mandate no other high school sports?


I know of a few DA players playing other High school sports I.e. Tennis.  I think it is more the exception than the rule.


----------



## Gokicksomegrass

Watch the last 40 seconds of the old skool MTV music video from da boss. 
You + your kid = priceless


----------



## Real Deal

Ok, so then if GDA were to allow high school you all think no one would be so critical, and the teams who just backed out would jump back in?   

BTW-- I do not know a single parent who believes the Girls' DA is some kind of direct route to the national team (oh except maybe a couple).


----------



## Tomnchar

Real Deal said:


> Ok, so then if GDA were to allow high school you all think no one would be so critical, and the teams who just backed out would jump back in?
> 
> BTW-- I do not know a single parent who believes the Girls' DA is some kind of direct route to the national team (oh except maybe a couple).


I believe the concerns about DA include more than not being able to play high school. It sounds like there are also concerns about the substitution rules and the required 4 practices a week. Although most elite athletes do practice 3-4 times a week with privates, etc, they have more flexibility on scheduling and time. High school academics can be very demanding and having the flexibility to shift your time to allow your DD or DS to be successful with that is more important to many.


----------



## Desert Hound

Real Deal said:


> Ok, so then if GDA were to allow high school you all think no one would be so critical, and the teams who just backed out would jump back in?
> 
> BTW-- I do not know a single parent who believes the Girls' DA is some kind of direct route to the national team (oh except maybe a couple).


I think if DA changes the HS rule along with the sub rule, it makes it attractive for many...and makes it more difficult for ECNL.


----------



## MWN

Real Deal said:


> Ok, so then if GDA were to allow high school you all think no one would be so critical, and the teams who just backed out would jump back in?
> 
> BTW-- I do not know a single parent who believes the Girls' DA is some kind of direct route to the national team (oh except maybe a couple).


Not just HS, but more liberal substitution rules.  The teams that have left have cited both elements as major factors in their decision to leave the DA.  Why the hell does a Girls U15 team carrying 22 players need to adhere to international rules on substitutions?   What "development" purpose is served for the other girls on the bench?  11 starters and 3 subs and 8 bench players that won't see a single game minute because ... why?

Its one thing if this is an Academy Club for a Professional team that is training these girls for free with the hopes they move to the Senior level, but that is not the US Model.  The US Model for girls is:

Play on a high level team where you actually play at least 70%
Make a "college recruiting" video.
Go to College (maybe get a scholarship to play) (*38,873 open spots to play in college* in the U.S.)
Get a Degree
Go to work in the real world.
Play semi-pro soccer for some NWSL team that pays right around minimum wage (*234 open spots to play*).
Get invited to play for the National Team (*22 open spots*), quite real world job with National Team stipend.
Become 1 of 3 marketable faces on the National Team that can do an endorsement deal and make a few hundred thousand more.
So, the odds are 1,766-to-1 of a college soccer player eventually playing for the national team.  Restated, there is a .0566% chance (not 1%, not .5%, but five one-hundreds of a percent) of a college player making it to the next level.  Compared to:

Odds of fatally slipping in bath or shower: 2,232 to 1
Odds of being killed sometime in the next year in any sort of transportation accident: 77 to 1 
Chance of getting prostate cancer: 1 in 6 
Chance of getting breast cancer: 1 in 9 
Chance of getting colon / rectal cancer: 1 in 26 
Chance of beating pancreatic or liver cancer: 1 in 9 

But, here is the real rub, the Odd of being selected to the US Women's National Team while playing for a DA or ECNL or any club is 0, but getting selected while in college 1 in 21.

The US WNT does not select players from the DA or ECNL, it selects from college or the semi-pro teams.  Making a youth national team can certainly pad the recruiting resume, but so can many other achievements.


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## davin

Tomnchar said:


> I believe the concerns about DA include more than not being able to play high school. It sounds like there are also concerns about the substitution rules and the required 4 practices a week. Although most elite athletes do practice 3-4 times a week with privates, etc, they have more flexibility on scheduling and time. High school academics can be very demanding and having the flexibility to shift your time to allow your DD or DS to be successful with that is more important to many.


Another concern about the DA in other regions outside of SoCal is the travel. This probably doesn't apply to SoCal since there are so many DA teams in the same region, but the travel is a big issue elsewhere.

For the DA teams in NorCal, they each have to take 5 road trips for league games where they have to get on planes and rent hotel rooms. The NorCal ECNL teams only have 1 road trip like that for league games.

What makes it worse is the playing time for the kids who are not starters. A lot of families don't think it makes sense to spend all that money for flights/hotels when their kid might only see the field for 15 minutes.


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## El Clasico

MWN, it's not really fair to list the "cons" without listing the "pros"

1. Vanity
2. You can boast to your friends that your child plays in the USDA - The ones that aren't savvy enough to know that you are sacrificing your daughter's childhood for lottery ticket odds.

- feel free to add to the list..


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## InTheValley

Desert Hound said:


> I think if DA changes the HS rule along with the sub rule, it makes it attractive for many...and makes it more difficult for ECNL.


The problem with GDA is that US Soccer does not understand that those who incur the costs  (the clubs) are businesses that need to at least break even.  It is very easy for US Soccer to impose  one mandatory obligation after the next without regard to the economic impact of their decisions, because US Soccer isn’t the entity that takes the financial hit for the decisions it makes. And those decisions drive boatloads of paying customers away.

Think about it. GDA clubs lose kids who want to play HS. They lose more who don’t want to give up piano, or tennis, or their entire social life, to train four days a week.  They lose more who can’t or won’t pay to fly 6-7x a year. And more who are on the younger half of the age group and therefore not good enough to make the squad, but who can still be seen by college coaches by playing ECNL.  More who think it is ridiculous to miss 8-10 days of school to travel and play in showcases in FL and NC. More who are forced to sit the bench solely due to the substitution limits.  More because the costs are prohibitive. More who seem to be getting hurt from the overtraining. And how many do they pick up because they slapped their brand name on the league?  None probably. Read just about any comment in response to a US Soccer social media post. It is  one of the most reviled brands of any kind in the US.

What kind of business model can succeed that drives so many would be customers away from it  unnecessarily?  Not this one, I am sure of that. Especially when it’s primary competitor provides all the benefits of GDA, but much less of the bad.

In the end, the clubs that left GDA did not leave over HS, so they aren’t coming back even if US Soccer relented. They left because US Soccer wouldn’t listen to *any* of the members’ legitimate concerns, including concerns about rules that jeopardize their financial future.  It is US Soccer's hubris and “my way or the highway” attitude, without regard for the financial impact, that drove these clubs out.


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## davin

InTheValley said:


> The problem with GDA is that US Soccer does not understand that those who incur the costs  (the clubs) are businesses that need to at least break even.  It is very easy for US Soccer to impose  one mandatory obligation after the next without regard to the economic impact of their decisions, because US Soccer isn’t the entity that takes the financial hit for the decisions it makes. And those decisions drive boatloads of paying customers away.
> 
> Think about it. GDA clubs lose kids who want to play HS. They lose more who don’t want to give up piano, or tennis, or their entire social life, to train four days a week.  They lose more who can’t or won’t pay to fly 6-7x a year. And more who are on the younger half of the age group and therefore not good enough to make the squad, but who can still be seen by college coaches by playing ECNL.  More who think it is ridiculous to miss 8-10 days of school to travel and play in showcases in FL and NC. More who are forced to sit the bench solely due to the substitution limits.  More because the costs are prohibitive. More who seem to be getting hurt from the overtraining. And how many do they pick up because they slapped their brand name on the league?  None probably. Read just about any comment in response to a US Soccer social media post. It is  one of the most reviled brands of any kind in the US.
> 
> What kind of business model can succeed that drives so many would be customers away from it  unnecessarily?  Not this one, I am sure of that. Especially when it’s primary competitor provides all the benefits of GDA, but much less of the bad.
> 
> In the end, the clubs that left GDA did not leave over HS, so they aren’t coming back even if US Soccer relented. They left because US Soccer wouldn’t listen to *any* of the members’ legitimate concerns, including concerns about rules that jeopardize their financial future.  It is US Soccer's hubris and “my way or the highway” attitude, without regard for the financial impact, that drove these clubs out.


You are right about US Soccer not listening to their members. This is the email that Michigan Hawks just sent out to their membership. See at the new model they are proposing with ECNL's blessing, which looks to be more inclusive and allowing more flexibility to players who choose to pursue other interests outside of club soccer.



> The ECNL's holistic approach to the development of the entire player was one of the biggest reasons for our decision. We believe that we can provide a better overall experience for each of our players and families within the programming of the ECNL. Another important factor in this decision was our ability to include our first two teams into the ECNL for the 2018-2019 season. They have decided that based on the performance of our teams in the league this year, we will be able to have two teams participate moving forward. This gives us the ability to provide 30-40 kids in each age group the opportunity to compete at this elite level.
> 
> So, what does that mean? What will next year look like?
> 
> The club's plan in 2018-2019 for the 2005s will be to offer 2 ECNL teams to players. Both teams will be on a 10-month program, that will include conference games, ECNL Showcases and friendly weekends vs top clubs spread over the entire year.
> 
> The club's plan for the 2001s-2004s will be to offer 2 different team options to our players. The first will be a 10-month ECNL program, that will include conference games, ECNL Showcases and friendly weekends vs top clubs spread over the entire year. This team will be selected based on ability first and then the willingness of the player to commit to the 10-month calendar. Players on this team will be allowed to participate in other high school sports, just not soccer. This year round program has been a formula for success for our elite players for the last 5 years.
> 
> The Michigan Hawks will also offer 6-month ECNL programming for players, for those players that would like to play high school. The only difference for this group will be that they will play their conference schedule and showcases in the fall and winter, finishing up in early March, before high school starts. There will be an option for a spring showcase team for these players on the 6-month team that choose not to play in high school.


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## SocalPapa

MWN said:


> Chance of getting prostate cancer: 1 in 6


I'm not a doctor, but I'm pretty sure my DD's odds of getting prostate cancer are 0%.


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## push_up

Desert Hound said:


> I think if DA changes the HS rule along with the sub rule, it makes it attractive for many...and makes it more difficult for ECNL.


Wow.  How profound.


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## MWN

SocalPapa said:


> I'm not a doctor, but I'm pretty sure my DD's odds of getting prostate cancer are 0%.


Yes, true, likewise my son's (and my) odds of developing ovarian cancer are likewise 0% and I'm fairly certain neither of us will undergo a hysterectomy.


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## Lambchop

Kicker4Life said:


> I know of a few DA players playing other High school sports I.e. Tennis.  I think it is more the exception than the rule.


Four players on my DD DA team play a high school sport just not soccer.  They get to play with friends, travel on buses, experience the recognition by other students.  So, the experience is there if they want it and can handle the school work load, DA and their sport.  In addition they somehow have time for video games, social media, tv, and shopping.  For some it definitely works!


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## Simisoccerfan

MWN said:


> Not just HS, but more liberal substitution rules.  The teams that have left have cited both elements as major factors in their decision to leave the DA.  Why the hell does a Girls U15 team carrying 22 players need to adhere to international rules on substitutions?   What "development" purpose is served for the other girls on the bench?  11 starters and 3 subs and 8 bench players that won't see a single game minute because ... why?
> 
> Its one thing if this is an Academy Club for a Professional team that is training these girls for free with the hopes they move to the Senior level, but that is not the US Model.  The US Model for girls is:
> 
> Play on a high level team where you actually play at least 70%
> Make a "college recruiting" video.
> Go to College (maybe get a scholarship to play) (*38,873 open spots to play in college* in the U.S.)
> Get a Degree
> Go to work in the real world.
> Play semi-pro soccer for some NWSL team that pays right around minimum wage (*234 open spots to play*).
> Get invited to play for the National Team (*22 open spots*), quite real world job with National Team stipend.
> Become 1 of 3 marketable faces on the National Team that can do an endorsement deal and make a few hundred thousand more.
> So, the odds are 1,766-to-1 of a college soccer player eventually playing for the national team.  Restated, there is a .0566% chance (not 1%, not .5%, but five one-hundreds of a percent) of a college player making it to the next level.  Compared to:
> 
> Odds of fatally slipping in bath or shower: 2,232 to 1
> Odds of being killed sometime in the next year in any sort of transportation accident: 77 to 1
> Chance of getting prostate cancer: 1 in 6
> Chance of getting breast cancer: 1 in 9
> Chance of getting colon / rectal cancer: 1 in 26
> Chance of beating pancreatic or liver cancer: 1 in 9
> 
> But, here is the real rub, the Odd of being selected to the US Women's National Team while playing for a DA or ECNL or any club is 0, but getting selected while in college 1 in 21.
> 
> The US WNT does not select players from the DA or ECNL, it selects from college or the semi-pro teams.  Making a youth national team can certainly pad the recruiting resume, but so can many other achievements.


Any team regardless of sub rules is going to have a hard time getting playing time for the girls at the bottom.  At least DA requires every girl to start 25% of the time.   What I have seen is that most teams have around 16 active players with some of other girls out with long term injuries.  Every team I have ever seen has struggled to find playing team beyond the first few subs.


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## cerebro de fútbol

MWN said:


> Not just HS, but more liberal substitution rules.  The teams that have left have cited both elements as major factors in their decision to leave the DA.  Why the hell does a Girls U15 team carrying 22 players need to adhere to international rules on substitutions?   What "development" purpose is served for the other girls on the bench?  11 starters and 3 subs and 8 bench players that won't see a single game minute because ... why?
> 
> Its one thing if this is an Academy Club for a Professional team that is training these girls for free with the hopes they move to the Senior level, but that is not the US Model.  The US Model for girls is:
> 
> Play on a high level team where you actually play at least 70%
> Make a "college recruiting" video.
> Go to College (maybe get a scholarship to play) (*38,873 open spots to play in college* in the U.S.)
> Get a Degree
> Go to work in the real world.
> Play semi-pro soccer for some NWSL team that pays right around minimum wage (*234 open spots to play*).
> Get invited to play for the National Team (*22 open spots*), quite real world job with National Team stipend.
> Become 1 of 3 marketable faces on the National Team that can do an endorsement deal and make a few hundred thousand more.
> So, the odds are 1,766-to-1 of a college soccer player eventually playing for the national team.  Restated, there is a .0566% chance (not 1%, not .5%, but five one-hundreds of a percent) of a college player making it to the next level.  Compared to:
> 
> Odds of fatally slipping in bath or shower: 2,232 to 1
> Odds of being killed sometime in the next year in any sort of transportation accident: 77 to 1
> Chance of getting prostate cancer: 1 in 6
> Chance of getting breast cancer: 1 in 9
> Chance of getting colon / rectal cancer: 1 in 26
> Chance of beating pancreatic or liver cancer: 1 in 9
> 
> But, here is the real rub, the Odd of being selected to the US Women's National Team while playing for a DA or ECNL or any club is 0, but getting selected while in college 1 in 21.
> 
> The US WNT does not select players from the DA or ECNL, it selects from college or the semi-pro teams.  Making a youth national team can certainly pad the recruiting resume, but so can many other achievements.


Here are the odds as recently published by the NCAA. http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2018RES_2017-18ProbabilityofGoPro_20180423.pdf


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## Dubs

Honestly, @MAP said the most important thing... There aren't any subsidies for this league with the exception of a few teams that get them.  It would seem to me, if you're trying to identify the very best talent, this would be the quickest way to get there.  Make it free or discounted and you'll see most if not all of the talent flock to the league, but that was never the intent....As such there continues to be much debate on this forum about what league is best.  DA never made sense to me specifically for this reason.


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## SocalPapa

cerebro de fútbol said:


> Here are the odds as recently published by the NCAA. http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2018RES_2017-18ProbabilityofGoPro_20180423.pdf


That doc links to another with an interesting stat.  As of 2015, 96% of women who played some level of NCAA soccer played soccer for their high schools.  http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017RES_HS_Club_Participation_by_Sport_20170314.pdf


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## MWN

SocalPapa said:


> That doc links to another with an interesting stat.  As of 2015, 96% of women who played some level of NCAA soccer played soccer for their high schools.  http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017RES_HS_Club_Participation_by_Sport_20170314.pdf


I saw that. For boys 6% didn't play high school soccer, whereas 3% of girls didn't play. If the Development Academy is successful those girls will bump up from 3% to 6%.


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