# Lets Drive to Utah on a Holiday Weekend to play teams from California



## timbuck (Sep 1, 2020)

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						Event Information
					






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I looked at the HS age and 2006 brackets.

I guess people really want to play.  6.5 hour drive to play teams within 40 miles.

Good luck.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 1, 2020)

timbuck said:


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I guess....especially since you can’t play those teams at home.


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## Mystery Train (Sep 1, 2020)

I heard of a couple of families who have actually moved to Utah so their senior kids can play HS and club sports this year.  And there is some backlash in Utah from kids who've been there the whole time about the new arrivals taking spots.  Seems crazy to me.


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## 46n2 (Sep 1, 2020)

So what is the point of this thread? 

Who cares , maybe there teams that enjoy traveling together, maybe their super soccer parents with vip passes and have money to spend. 

 Family vacation with some soccer sound pretty nice about now.


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## lafalafa (Sep 1, 2020)

Just when you thought crossing county lines to practice was a bit much now teams are crossing state lines just to scrimmage, crazy times.   These small time tournaments are suddenly attracting teams to play in the tumbleweed cup or whatever it's called.

It's like the speakeasy times, what's the password to get in again this week?

Anyway what's the saying....get it where you can?  Whoops is that for youth sports or something else?


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## Speed (Sep 1, 2020)

sad 


Mystery Train said:


> I heard of a couple of families who have actually moved to Utah so their senior kids can play HS and club sports this year.  And there is some backlash in Utah from kids who've been there the whole time about the new arrivals taking spots.  Seems crazy to me.


sad for all the kids


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## Speed (Sep 1, 2020)

46n2 said:


> So what is the point of this thread?
> 
> Who cares , maybe there teams that enjoy traveling together, maybe their super soccer parents with vip passes and have money to spend.
> 
> Family vacation with some soccer sound pretty nice about now.


We were told tonight maybe go to AZ for soccer. I am sick of being stuck in the house and so exactly have fun in AZ and get away for a bit!!


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## Grace T. (Sep 1, 2020)

Mystery Train said:


> I heard of a couple of families who have actually moved to Utah so their senior kids can play HS and club sports this year.  And there is some backlash in Utah from kids who've been there the whole time about the new arrivals taking spots.  Seems crazy to me.


I can see this. At least as far as goalkeepers are concerned from the little we saw flight 1 keepers in Utah have very little on even some of top flight 3 keepers in SoCal, especially on the girls end.  My son got moved up to the olders group in the camps he attended. We met a handful of Californians out there not to mention that two classmates from his school are out there, 2 from his current school and 2 work colleagues.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 1, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Just when you thought crossing county lines to practice was a bit much now teams are crossing state lines just to scrimmage, crazy times.   *These small time tournaments are suddenly attracting teams to play in the tumbleweed cup or whatever it's called.*
> 
> It's like the speakeasy times, what's the password to get in again this week?
> 
> Anyway what's the saying....get it where you can?  Whoops is that for youth sports or something else?


Some folks thought I was making it up.  Cactus Cup is big time now.  Getting close to a sell out from the rumor mill and get this, they need more fields to meet demand.  Drop my dd off at da games and then go back to hotel lobby and watch live stream.  How far is Scottsdale from the Cactus Cup? Play and stay, but I dont care at this point.  What else is there to do if you're a kid who likes to actually play in a soccer game?  I respect the jugglers of the forum. I get it and it's making things work for your player.  I played hoops.  I would never do fundamentals for 12 months.  Game or I find another game to play.  I have to play games   My dd is the same way.  She's all in and wants to be with her teammates for the big Cup in AZ.  I love it.  I need to get out of Socal and just get away from it all.  AZ food is good too.  Looking forward to seeing old friends and new friends.


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## chiefs (Sep 1, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Just when you thought crossing county lines to practice was a bit much now teams are crossing state lines just to scrimmage, crazy times.   These small time tournaments are suddenly attracting teams to play in the tumbleweed cup or whatever it's called.
> 
> It's like the speakeasy times, what's the password to get in again this week?
> 
> Anyway what's the saying....get it where you can?  Whoops is that for youth sports or something else?


Sounds like bootlegging back in the prohibition


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## pewpew (Sep 1, 2020)

Utah..AZ..same difference. My brother is driving my 15yo nephew out to AZ this weekend for baseball. Not sure who they are playing or where the other teams are from but people are making the drive to play.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 1, 2020)

*"People will come to AZ and play in the Cactus Cup for reasons they can;t even fathom."





*


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## paytoplay (Sep 2, 2020)

There’s one thing I’ll never do..


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## dawson (Sep 2, 2020)

pewpew said:


> Utah..AZ..same difference. My brother is driving my 15yo nephew out to AZ this weekend for baseball. Not sure who they are playing or where the other teams are from but people are making the drive to play.


 There is currently one big difference ;

Utah allows spectators with masks required. 

Arizona is in step 1 of phase 4 which allows  NO  spectators  for games .

There is at least one Labor day tournament in Arizona that has some CA teams .
Long drive to not be able to watch the game .


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## ToonArmy (Sep 2, 2020)

It's not about me being able to watch my kid play it's about my kid going to another state to be able to play. I can sit at hotel pool or bar while she plays. Better than sitting in the home I been quarantined in since early Spring.


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## dad4 (Sep 2, 2020)

dawson said:


> There is currently one big difference ;
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> Utah allows spectators with masks required.
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> ...


It isn’t a long drive to watch a game.  It’s a long drive to make your kid happy.  The lawn chair part is secondary.

I think it’s crazy, but it’s a crazy I understand.


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## watfly (Sep 2, 2020)

timbuck said:


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Good for them, if that's what they want to do.  I'd much rather go to Cedar City, UT than Phoenix.  Much cooler (relatively speaking) and likely less home cooking from the refs.  Hopefully they get some time to visit the amazing National Parks in the area.


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## dawson (Sep 2, 2020)

I understand that for some its totally about making their kid happy and I don't think that's crazy. 
 I'm probably in that category although for me there are limits which this is approaching.

For others the long drive plus not being able to watch the game might make the difference and that's ok.

There is no right or wrong or crazy vs sensible in these kinds of decisions. We are all different and lucky that we are still for
 the most part living in a free country and are able to choose for ourselves what we think will make us happy.


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## socalkdg (Sep 2, 2020)

We wanted to go to Cedar City but the team we would have went with had two keepers already.   She could have played the field, but she didn't want to.   Would have visited Zion Sunday.   So beautiful.


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## kickingandscreaming (Sep 2, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> We wanted to go to Cedar City but the team we would have went with had two keepers already.   She could have played the field, but she didn't want to.   Would have visited Zion Sunday.   So beautiful.


Zion is gorgeous. If anyone can afford to spend an extra day, the north rim of the grand canyon is only 3 hours away.


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## timbuck (Sep 2, 2020)

Games are on Friday, Saturday and maybe Monday.  Time to explore on Sunday.


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## whatithink (Sep 2, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> How far is Scottsdale from the Cactus Cup?


Normally very close, but it depends on what fields are open - Reach 11 and Scottsdale Sports Center are not currently allowing games. Phx metro is big, you could be 40-50 mins from hotel to game, if the aforementioned are not open.


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## whatithink (Sep 2, 2020)

dawson said:


> Arizona is in step 1 of phase 4 which allows  NO  spectators  for games .


Tournament at Fear Farm last weekend, masks on, distancing and plenty of spectators.


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## tjinaz (Sep 2, 2020)

Um AYSA - Arizona Youth Soccer - we have been at phase 4 since Aug 17.









						ASA Return-to-Play: Phase IV
					

ASA Return-to-Play: Phase IV




					www.azsoccerassociation.org


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## happy9 (Sep 2, 2020)

whatithink said:


> Tournament at Fear Farm last weekend, masks on, distancing and plenty of spectators.


Games all over the valley - masks, distancing etc.  I think there are different levels of enforcement depending on where you play.  Wear a mask, separate, sit down and watch your kid play!  Then quickly move on so the follow on parents can sit.  

Where  I was, everyone was respectful of each other.


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## Speed (Sep 3, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I can see this. At least as far as goalkeepers are concerned from the little we saw flight 1 keepers in Utah have very little on even some of top flight 3 keepers in SoCal, especially on the girls end.  My son got moved up to the olders group in the camps he attended. We met a handful of Californians out there not to mention that two classmates from his school are out there, 2 from his current school and 2 work colleagues.


Did y’all move to Utah for the year?


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## Grace T. (Sep 3, 2020)

Speed said:


> Did y’all move to Utah for the year?


Just a month. Had to return last week for some medical tests.


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## Gkdad1 (Sep 3, 2020)

There is another tournament in Utah this weekend and has significantly more teams





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						Event Information
					






					events.gotsport.com


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## full90 (Sep 3, 2020)

Curious for the AZ people: what’s the limit for heat temps to call off games? I know there are games there this weekend but temps upwards of 100 all weekend with an extreme heat advisory. Is that a game time decision usually or will they cancel for the weekend before games start? Or does no one care? Tia.


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## oh canada (Sep 3, 2020)

timbuck said:


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I knew a Blues team would be going.  There is no rational reason to:  drive out of state 5+ hours; play in 97F (Utah) or 113F (AZ) heat, and in Utah's case 5000ft altitude; and, lay around in an air-conditioned cheap hotel while your kids scroll on their phones.  This isn't "we want to go on a road trip and this is what we want to do."  It's either an inability to control personal FOMO or pressure from a coach/club to go, otherwise risk losing future playing time.

You can't tell me your kids wouldn't rather road trip on this boiling hot, holiday weekend to Lake Havasu, Big Bear, or even the state campground at San Onofre.


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## timbuck (Sep 3, 2020)

What will be the penalty for violating the health rules?
I can see some crazy parent jumping up out of their Tommy Bahama chair screaming because an opposing player was giving a high five to a teammate.

Also - if a kid wakes up with a fever on Saturday morning - Will parents really keep them home?  Or will they rub a little ice on the forehead before check in?



			https://utahsurfsoccer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Health-Guidelines-for-the-2020-1.pdf
		


The rules also state that 20/21 player cards will be used.  Has Cal South issued these?









						UTAH LABOR DAY CUP - Utah Surf Soccer Club
					

September 1-4, 2023 (Sunday will be a rest/adventure day)  REGISTER NOW (coming soon)    Presented by Utah Surf Soccer, and set in the beautiful Southern Utah town of Cedar City, Utah, we are proud to host and invite you to Utah's newest youth soccer event!  Just a couple of hours north




					utahsurfsoccer.com


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## RayClemence (Sep 3, 2020)

https://utahsurfsoccer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Health-Guidelines-for-the-2020-1.pdf
		


I usually do not post here, but I couldn't resist putting in my thoughts after reading the health guidelines and waiver forms.  I am an attorney so I tend to be more focused on these things, but the first form is requiring both the coach and the team manager to "indemnify" the organizers in the event of a lawsuit or a claim that arises from anything that is "related" to the team.  The second form is requesting the same "indemnify and hold harmless" agreement from all the parents of the players.  Putting aside the questions of "causation" and what is "related" to the team, if someone gets sick and that illness can be directly or indirectly traced to XYZ team, then the organizer can demand that the coach, team manager and all parents from XYZ team get involved in the lawsuit.  People tend to think about these indemnifications as being payouts for damages, but this usually means that an attorney needs to be retained to defend the lawsuit, and that the coach, team manager and all parents from XYZ team are responsible for paying the initial legal fees in defending the matter.  I'm quite sure that most parents (and probably most coaches) signing these forms do not realize this fact.  

Therefore, if some kid gets Covid a couple of days after playing in the tournament and suffers some debilitating effects, the family could sue the organizers.  The organizers can try to defend themselves by saying that they followed all health protocols, and then contact the three/four teams that this kid played and demand defense and indemnification.  The coach, team manager and all parents from the three/four teams cannot get out of the obligation to defend and indemnify by raising the same arguments because the waiver forms say that the defense and indemnification is absolute even if protocols have been followed, and even if the organizer is negligent.  Separately, whether the waivers in these forms are even legally enforceable is another issue, and can be complicated because it may depend on the law of the state at issue.  The forms are silent about which state's law applies, so one assumes Utah.  But if Johnny is signing this form in California, will he bound under Utah law simply because he is going to Utah for this event?  What if the sick player is from Nevada?

The bottom line is that once a legal claim is made, either before a lawsuit is filed or after a lawsuit is filed, some attorney needs to be paid to deal with it.  Who is paying?  I don't think that most people appreciate this point.


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## kickingandscreaming (Sep 3, 2020)

timbuck said:


> What will be the penalty for violating the health rules?
> Also - if a kid wakes up with a fever on Saturday morning - Will parents really keep them home?  Or will they rub a little ice on the forehead before check in?


Is it the finals or a consolation game?


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## notintheface (Sep 3, 2020)

RayClemence said:


> Separately, whether the waivers in these forms are even legally enforceable is


Narrator's voice: they aren't.


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## tjinaz (Sep 3, 2020)

RayClemence said:


> https://utahsurfsoccer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Health-Guidelines-for-the-2020-1.pdf
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Is this form any different if your kid knocks coconuts with another player on the field and gets a severe concussion, or tears and ACL after being slide tackled?  Is the COVID based clause that much different than the same waiver used for other risks associated with playing?


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## Glitterhater (Sep 3, 2020)

RayClemence said:


> https://utahsurfsoccer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Health-Guidelines-for-the-2020-1.pdf
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All for a youth soccer game, smh.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 4, 2020)

Good luck to all teams traveling and hope they have a ton of fun....... California is not doing this right...... our DDs (or mine at least) are crying about not playing......


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 4, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> Good luck to all teams traveling and hope they have a ton of fun....... California is not doing this right...... our DDs (or mine at least) are crying about not playing......


Both my DD’s are trying to come to grips with it.  They’ve gone thru the crying phase and have moved into the motivation phase (see how long they can stay in this phase).

Both have started getting up before school and running hills in the neighborhood or at the beach on top of all the other training they do 6 days a week. 

Stay positive and let’s keep our fingers crossed for October.


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## watfly (Sep 4, 2020)

RayClemence said:


> https://utahsurfsoccer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Health-Guidelines-for-the-2020-1.pdf
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Thanks for that info.  It seems to me that Utah Surf is being over the top by requiring an indemnification.  Could they have just required a waiver?  I'd sign a waiver in a heart beat, but indemnification, no.  It ridiculous that you can sue over getting a virus anyway.  We need to have some legislation to prevent that (unless it involves some form of willful misconduct), and get back to individual accountability and away from always being a victim.


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## notintheface (Sep 4, 2020)

watfly said:


> It ridiculous that you can sue over getting a virus anyway.  We need to have some legislation to prevent that (unless it involves some form of willful misconduct), and get back to individual accountability and away from always being a victim.


The "willful misconduct" is having a large group gathering in the middle of a pandemic. That's beside the point, though-- either you are free to initiate legal action, or you aren't. Victimhood has nothing to do with it.


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## watfly (Sep 4, 2020)

notintheface said:


> The "willful misconduct" is having a large group gathering in the middle of a pandemic. That's beside the point, though-- either you are free to initiate legal action, or you aren't. Victimhood has nothing to do with it.


No one is forcing anyone to participate, it's called freedom of choice and choices have consequences.  If you choose to participate and get sick, don't try to sue someone else for your choices.  If you do you're playing the victim card.  It's not that complicated. (Yes, I understand you think you know what is best for everyone, but most people would like to make their own choices).  As of right now its perfectly legal to host a soccer tournament in Utah.  Your claim that its willful misconduct is just more fear mongering.


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## EOTL (Sep 4, 2020)

watfly said:


> No one is forcing anyone to participate, it's called freedom of choice and choices have consequences.  If you choose to participate and get sick, don't try to sue someone else for your choices.  If you do you're playing the victim card.  It's not that complicated. (Yes, I understand you think you know what is best for everyone, but most people would like to make their own choices).  As of right now its perfectly legal to host a soccer tournament in Utah.  Your claim that its willful misconduct is just more fear mongering.


What about grandma? She was minding her own business until little Sally brought C19 home from Utah and killed her. In hindsight, she probably should have stayed in the rest home, although Sally also gave it to her teammate, who gave it to her mom who works at the same rest home. Probably would have died regardless of where she was staying since, well, Americans are dumb and selfish.


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## kickingandscreaming (Sep 4, 2020)

EOTL said:


> What about grandma? She was minding her own business until little Sally brought C19 home from Utah and killed her. In hindsight, she probably should have stayed in the rest home, although Sally also gave it to her teammate, who gave it to her mom who works at the same rest home. Probably would have died regardless of where she was staying since, well, Americans are dumb and selfish.


IKR, as you stated, if only we could be like NY ... where grandma is already dead.


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## watfly (Sep 4, 2020)

EOTL said:


> What about grandma? She was minding her own business until little Sally brought C19 home from Utah and killed her. In hindsight, she probably should have stayed in the rest home, although Sally also gave it to her teammate, who gave it to her mom who works at the same rest home. Probably would have died regardless of where she was staying since, well, Americans are dumb and selfish.


I appreciate the entertainment value of your mythical and small minded scenarios.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 4, 2020)

notintheface said:


> The "willful misconduct" is having a large group gathering in the middle of a pandemic. That's beside the point, though.....


Like the protests?


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## dad4 (Sep 4, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Like the protests?


Of course the protests were a bad idea that spread the virus.

Are we talking about the BLM protests or the anti-shutdown protests?  They kind of look the same to me.....


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## watfly (Sep 4, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> IKR, as you stated, if only we could be like NY ... where grandma is already dead.


There's that irony again that certain people are oblivious to.  I'd say they know who they are, but obviously they don't and I don't want to mention them by name since there is a small chance they would figure out their own ironies and we'd lose that entertainment value.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 4, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Of course the protests were a bad idea that spread the virus.
> 
> Are we talking about the BLM protests or the anti-shutdown protests?  They kind of look the same to me.....


Did I put a tilte in which protest?  No....wanna know why?  CAUSE IT DOESN’T MATTER!!!


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## chiefs (Sep 4, 2020)

tjinaz said:


> Is this form any different if your kid knocks coconuts with another player on the field and gets a severe concussion, or tears and ACL after being slide tackled?  Is the COVID based clause that much different than the same waiver used for other risks associated with playing?


How about the seasonal flu?  Kids risks with this virus is higher.


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## watfly (Sep 4, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Did I put a tilte in which protest?  No....wanna know why?  CAUSE IT DOESN’T MATTER!!!


I might be losing my mind and this is going to be a super unpopular opinion, but based upon what I've read I'm beginning to think that the protests weren't a significant cause of spreading the virus.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 4, 2020)

watfly said:


> I might be losing my mind and this is going to be a super unpopular opinion, but based upon what I've read I'm beginning to think that the protests weren't a significant cause of spreading the virus.


So you’re saying larger, outdoor gatherings with no social distancing, mixed mask usage and lots of yelling doesn’t show significant cause  of spread.....ahh the things that make you say, hmmmm!


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## watfly (Sep 4, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> So you’re saying larger, outdoor gatherings with no social distancing, mixed mask usage and lots of yelling doesn’t show significant cause  of spread.....ahh the things that make you say, hmmmm!


I know crazy! It defies common sense and I'm all about common sense.


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## EOTL (Sep 4, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> IKR, as you stated, if only we could be like NY ... where grandma is already dead.


Sure. NY has as many people over the age of 55 as Phoenix has people.

I know you think you’ve got a cute little zinger, but anyone who knows anything understands that your narrative is a crock of s**t. Everyone knows C19 landed and started spreading like crazy in NYC before anyone knew it was there, let alone how it spreads, how best to treat it and even how susceptible people in different groups are to it. Despite not knowing much of anything about it, cases in NY peaked a little more than two weeks after it even learned it was going to be a real problem, and has been dropping ever since.  NY is losing about 6 people a day in the entire state.

States like AZ, TX, CA and FL have no excuse. Even if NY had botched everything about C19, which it did not, the states that are currently failing miserably have no excuse for failing to learn a god-damned thing. They have citizens like you who point to NY not as a guide for how to prevent spread and save lives, but instead to rationalize killing more people. Like I keep saying, Americans are dumbs**ts. The world is laughing at you. You can’t travel out of the country. You can’t even travel to NY without quarantining 14 days because they know who the real idiots are.


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## RayClemence (Sep 4, 2020)

A few responses to some of your comments:

Are the indemnifications and waivers enforceable?   Maybe yes and maybe no.  Depends on so many legal factors.  But that doesn’t stop people from filing a lawsuit or making a claim.  The enforceability gets “discussed” after the claim or lawsuit has started.

Is the COVID based clause that much different than the same waiver used for other risks associated with playing?   The biggest differences are: (i) it includes an indemnification provision which regular waiver forms do not have, and (ii) parents/players usually do not have to sign such a waiver/indemnification form when they play in regular tournaments pre-Covid.  This means that anything you do at this event (even if unrelated to Covid, such as an injury) could carry greater legal consequences.  This is why I was so gobsmacked by these forms.

The "willful misconduct" is having a large group gathering in the middle of a pandemic. That's beside the point, though-- either you are free to initiate legal action, or you aren't.   This is the point.  In this country, anyone is free to initiate legal action for any reason if he/she feels aggrieved.

No one is forcing anyone to participate, it's called freedom of choice and choices have consequences. If you choose to participate and get sick, don't try to sue someone else for your choices.  I agree 100% with this comment, but the reality is that when someone gets sick, and they see an opportunity to make a claim that might net them some cash, why wouldn’t they do it?  In many ways, having an indemnification provision exacerbates the problem as it provides a motivation or reason for people to pursue a claim that they normally wouldn’t have.  In a normal situation, a person may not bother to pursue a claim against a club or player as there is no indemnification provision (i.e., there are a limited number of people/entities that can be sued), but when I know that I have an entire roster of players and the coach and the team manager obligated to indemnify, that is a lot more pockets that I can pick from.


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## Desert Hound (Sep 4, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> IKR, as you stated, if only we could be like NY ... where grandma is already dead.


Game. Set. Match. 
6-0, 6-0, 6-0


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 4, 2020)

If everyone played by the rules and were gracious when they got their asses kicked, then we wouldn't need all the lawyers messing everything up to figure out who the real winner is and who is telling the truth the most.  Remember, no one is 100% right. Some good pick pocket folks out there. How do you know if the Covid spreader didnt catch the virus at da beach first from someone else and then they brought it to the field who then took it home to grandma and the she died.  How in the hell are you going to prove this Mr lawyer?  This is starting to sound like extortion and blackmail BS!!!  600 lawyers on one side and 900 on the other side.  Losers!!!!!


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## Copa9 (Sep 4, 2020)

chiefs said:


> How about the seasonal flu?  Kids risks with this virus is higher.


Remember, there is a choice with seasonal flu, vaccinate or not vaccinate.  Seasonal flu is not nearly as contagious.  With seasonal flu you are contagious when you have symptoms.  Not too many players when they have 102, or 103 temp and their body is hurting all over, want to play in a soccer game, so less opportunity to spread it. Covid-19 you can be contagious with no symptoms. So plenty of opportunities to spread it.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 4, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Remember, there is a choice with seasonal flu, vaccinate or not vaccinate.  Seasonal flu is not nearly as contagious.  With seasonal flu you are contagious when you have symptoms.  Not too many players when they have 102, or 103 temp and their body is hurting all over, want to play in a soccer game, so less opportunity to spread it. Covid-19 you can be contagious with no symptoms. So plenty of opportunities to spread it.


Is it really less contagious or is it just that more people have built up immunity?


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## RayClemence (Sep 4, 2020)

How do you know if the Covid spreader didnt catch the virus at da beach first from someone else and then they brought it to the field who then took it home to grandma and the she died. How in the hell are you going to prove this Mr lawyer? This is starting to sound like extortion and blackmail BS!!! 600 lawyers on one side and 900 on the other side. Losers!!!!! 

You are correct.  For these Covid cases, it will be almost impossible to prove "causation".  A player could have caught the virus at a restaurant in Utah, or almost anywhere else.  But the key point is that this won't stop people from pursuing claims that are difficult to prove.  It happens everyday, and in many ways, the litigation "business" often is more about "legal extortion" than anything else.  People file lawsuits where they know that they have a weak (or sometimes no) case but where they feel that the defendant would rather pay them to settle instead of spending more money on paying lawyers to defend you.  My point is that these waiver/indemnification forms are actually opening the door for more claims and potential litigation.  Parents and coaches sign these forms not really understanding the real implications behind them.  In fact, I doubt if these tournament organizers themselves understand all the implications.  They only know that they need "maximum protection" and get their lawyers to send them these "over-lawyered" forms.  

I coach a team, and I have been thinking about whether I would allow my team to play in a tournament which requires an indemnification.  Waivers are OK for me, but asking a coach and parents to indemnify is a completely different proposition.  It would be interesting if Calsouth, SCDSL or CSL asks for an indemnification.  Would anyone be willing to sign an indemnification?


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## notintheface (Sep 4, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Like the protests?


Congratulations on your strawman argument. Get back to the point.


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## whatithink (Sep 4, 2020)

full90 said:


> Curious for the AZ people: what’s the limit for heat temps to call off games? I know there are games there this weekend but temps upwards of 100 all weekend with an extreme heat advisory. Is that a game time decision usually or will they cancel for the weekend before games start? Or does no one care? Tia.


They'll play this weekend; high temps but little to no humidity, so no big deal. Make sure your kid hydrates 24+ hours prior, during & after - electrolytes and sun screen. They will probably have water breaks during games in the PM, maybe not so much in the AM and evening.

Go somewhere cool between games - don't hang at the fields if possible.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 4, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Congratulations on your strawman argument. Get back to the point.


Is that your word of the day?  I am on point. You just don’t like it.


----------



## twoclubpapa (Sep 4, 2020)

RayClemence said:


> I coach a team, and I have been thinking about whether I would allow my team to play in a tournament which requires an indemnification.  Waivers are OK for me, but asking a coach and parents to indemnify is a completely different proposition.  It would be interesting if Calsouth, SCDSL or CSL asks for an indemnification.  Would anyone be willing to sign an indemnification?


I wonder if the referees also have to sign the waiver/indemnification.  I wouldn't.  I read an article in Referee magazine a few years ago about a football referee who refused to sign a contract for officiating the Fiesta Bowl due to an indemnification clause with a huge scope.  He didn't work the game and complained about it.  I believe the clause was removed in subsequent years.


----------



## notintheface (Sep 4, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Is that your word of the day?  I am on point. You just don’t like it.


You aren't. You're playing whataboutism. Just stop. The question is around a TD going forward with hosting a tournament even though they know the numbers are likely to expose people to the virus. That is high risk and I cannot imagine a TD wanting to have their text messages, emails, etc., go through discovery. SoCal cup cancelled. Surf cup postponed, again. There's a reason for this. The TDs are making these decisions because they understand the potential legal gray area they're entering into. You want to put together a tournament and invite 100 teams? Go for it! Just recognize that there is a very very strong likelihood that one or more players will contract the virus that weekend and regardless of how sympathetic you feel a judge in arbitration would be, you are extremely likely to get bent over the barrel.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Sep 4, 2020)

RayClemence said:


> How do you know if the Covid spreader didnt catch the virus at da beach first from someone else and then they brought it to the field who then took it home to grandma and the she died. How in the hell are you going to prove this Mr lawyer? This is starting to sound like extortion and blackmail BS!!! 600 lawyers on one side and 900 on the other side. Losers!!!!!
> 
> You are correct.  For these Covid cases, it will be almost impossible to prove "causation".  A player could have caught the virus at a restaurant in Utah, or almost anywhere else.  But the key point is that this won't stop people from pursuing claims that are difficult to prove.  It happens everyday, and in many ways, the litigation "business" often is more about "legal extortion" than anything else.  People file lawsuits where they know that they have a weak (or sometimes no) case but where they feel that the defendant would rather pay them to settle instead of spending more money on paying lawyers to defend you.  My point is that these waiver/indemnification forms are actually opening the door for more claims and potential litigation.  Parents and coaches sign these forms not really understanding the real implications behind them.  In fact, I doubt if these tournament organizers themselves understand all the implications.  They only know that they need "maximum protection" and get their lawyers to send them these "over-lawyered" forms.
> 
> I coach a team, and I have been thinking about whether I would allow my team to play in a tournament which requires an indemnification.  Waivers are OK for me, but asking a coach and parents to indemnify is a completely different proposition.  It would be interesting if Calsouth, SCDSL or CSL asks for an indemnification.  Would anyone be willing to sign an indemnification?


Thanks for bringing this to our attention.  I'm a little confused after reading the agreement (perhaps that's the intent of the agreement).  Since there is a waiver clause that covers even negligence, doesn't that make indemnification somewhat irrelevant?  If the wronged party cannot sue due to waiver, when does indemnification come into play?


----------



## notintheface (Sep 4, 2020)

RayClemence said:


> No one is forcing anyone to participate, it's called freedom of choice and choices have consequences. If you choose to participate and get sick, don't try to sue someone else for your choices.  I agree 100% with this comment, but the reality is that when someone gets sick, and they see an opportunity to make a claim that might net them some cash, why wouldn’t they do it?  In many ways, having an indemnification provision exacerbates the problem as it provides a motivation or reason for people to pursue a claim that they normally wouldn’t have.  In a normal situation, a person may not bother to pursue a claim against a club or player as there is no indemnification provision (i.e., there are a limited number of people/entities that can be sued), but when I know that I have an entire roster of players and the coach and the team manager obligated to indemnify, that is a lot more pockets that I can pick from.


I think the answer here also is that there is an expectation of safety. The moment a tournament starts advertising everything that it's doing to keep people from contracting the virus ("we have hand sanitizer stations! we have uv lights near benches! we have electrostatic sprayers at the main gate!") then they are representing that the grounds will be safe. While I don't think anyone would be dumb enough to engage in risky behavior outside of the tournament (Pizza Port in Carlsbad anyone?) and then claim that they had contracted the virus at the tournament, it's still a possibility.

If I'm a TD today, I'm sending out cancellation notices until summer of 2021 and part of uploading photos of your team cards will also be uploading your vaccination records.


----------



## soccerfan123 (Sep 4, 2020)

notintheface said:


> I think the answer here also is that there is an expectation of safety. The moment a tournament starts advertising everything that it's doing to keep people from contracting the virus ("we have hand sanitizer stations! we have uv lights near benches! we have electrostatic sprayers at the main gate!") then they are representing that the grounds will be safe. While I don't think anyone would be dumb enough to engage in risky behavior outside of the tournament (Pizza Port in Carlsbad anyone?) and then claim that they had contracted the virus at the tournament, it's still a possibility.
> 
> If I'm a TD today, I'm sending out cancellation notices until summer of 2021 and part of uploading photos of your team cards will also be uploading your vaccination records.


hide in place bro, the rest of us should be allowed to make our owns decisions with our families


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 4, 2020)

notintheface said:


> You aren't. You're playing whataboutism. Just stop. The question is around a TD going forward with hosting a tournament even though they know the numbers are likely to expose people to the virus. That is high risk and I cannot imagine a TD wanting to have their text messages, emails, etc., go through discovery. SoCal cup cancelled. Surf cup postponed, again. There's a reason for this. The TDs are making these decisions because they understand the potential legal gray area they're entering into. You want to put together a tournament and invite 100 teams? Go for it! Just recognize that there is a very very strong likelihood that one or more players will contract the virus that weekend and regardless of how sympathetic you feel a judge in arbitration would be, you are extremely likely to get bent over the barrel.


No..not whataboutisms....asking a question that is DIRECTLY related to your statement::

“notintheface said:
The "willful misconduct" is having a large group gathering in the middle of a pandemic. That's beside the point, though....”

 you seem to be Hell bent on picking an argument and you’re picking it with the wrong guy....stand down and move on and we will both have a better day for it.


----------



## Chalklines (Sep 4, 2020)

watfly said:


> Thanks for that info.  It seems to me that Utah Surf is being over the top by requiring an indemnification.  Could they have just required a waiver?  I'd sign a waiver in a heart beat, but indemnification, no.  It ridiculous that you can sue over getting a virus anyway.  We need to have some legislation to prevent that (unless it involves some form of willful misconduct), and get back to individual accountability and away from always being a victim.


Not worth the risk with indemnification. If this becomes standard protocol till a vaccine to play in a tournament ALL sports wont happen if parents have a brain.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Sep 4, 2020)

EOTL said:


> States like AZ, TX, CA and FL have no excuse.


Looks like they don't need one. 

Deaths / 100,000
NJ 180
NY 170
AZ 70
FL 54
TX 46
CA 34

Based on the current Rt, NY is headed in the wrong direction and doing a worse job than all those states (see chart below). Don't be confused, though. I am wishing the best for all states whatever approach they take.


----------



## RayClemence (Sep 4, 2020)

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I'm a little confused after reading the agreement (perhaps that's the intent of the agreement). Since there is a waiver clause that covers even negligence, doesn't that make indemnification somewhat irrelevant? If the wronged party cannot sue due to waiver, when does indemnification come into play? 

Great question.  If an aggrieved party really wants to sue, he/she can argue that, due to "willful misconduct" or some "egregious" behavior on the part of the tournament organizer or any of the other teams/players/referees/etc., that his/her waiver is void or inapplicable.  Yes, it sounds circular, but there is nothing stopping someone from making a claim, even if it is meritless.  Then if a claim is made, the indemnifying parties will be involved.  Without the indemnification, the indemnifying parties will never be involved.  At the end of the day, the waiver should stand and the aggrieved party's claim should not be successful, but not after everyone has been dragged through the mud (pun intended).

One thing to keep in mind is that most people tend to think about the "end result" (e.g., does he have a legitimate claim?), but very few people realize that the legal process (e.g., lawyers, courts, arbitrators, mediators, legal fees, costs, threats, etc.) that gets us to that "end result" is the thing that everyone should be trying to avoid.  And part of the legal process is that any individual in this country who is not afraid of defending a malicious prosecution action can bring any claim regardless of what (e.g., waiver) he/she may have signed.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 4, 2020)

RayClemence said:


> Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I'm a little confused after reading the agreement (perhaps that's the intent of the agreement). Since there is a waiver clause that covers even negligence, doesn't that make indemnification somewhat irrelevant? If the wronged party cannot sue due to waiver, when does indemnification come into play?
> 
> Great question.  If an aggrieved party really wants to sue, he/she can argue that, due to "willful misconduct" or some "egregious" behavior on the part of the tournament organizer or any of the other teams/players/referees/etc., that his/her waiver is void or inapplicable.  Yes, it sounds circular, but there is nothing stopping someone from making a claim, even if it is meritless.  Then if a claim is made, the indemnifying parties will be involved.  Without the indemnification, the indemnifying parties will never be involved.  At the end of the day, the waiver should stand and the aggrieved party's claim should not be successful, but not after everyone has been dragged through the mud (pun intended).
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is that most people tend to think about the "end result" (e.g., does he have a legitimate claim?), but very few people realize that the legal process (e.g., lawyers, courts, arbitrators, mediators, legal fees, costs, threats, etc.) that gets us to that "end result" is the thing that everyone should be trying to avoid.  And part of the legal process is that any individual in this country who is not afraid of defending a malicious prosecution action can bring any claim regardless of what (e.g., waiver) he/she may have signed.


Thanks for the posts. Worth reading.


----------



## Dargle (Sep 4, 2020)

RayClemence said:


> Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I'm a little confused after reading the agreement (perhaps that's the intent of the agreement). Since there is a waiver clause that covers even negligence, doesn't that make indemnification somewhat irrelevant? If the wronged party cannot sue due to waiver, when does indemnification come into play?
> 
> Great question.  If an aggrieved party really wants to sue, he/she can argue that, due to "willful misconduct" or some "egregious" behavior on the part of the tournament organizer or any of the other teams/players/referees/etc., that his/her waiver is void or inapplicable.  Yes, it sounds circular, but there is nothing stopping someone from making a claim, even if it is meritless.  Then if a claim is made, the indemnifying parties will be involved.  Without the indemnification, the indemnifying parties will never be involved.  At the end of the day, the waiver should stand and the aggrieved party's claim should not be successful, but not after everyone has been dragged through the mud (pun intended).
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is that most people tend to think about the "end result" (e.g., does he have a legitimate claim?), but very few people realize that the legal process (e.g., lawyers, courts, arbitrators, mediators, legal fees, costs, threats, etc.) that gets us to that "end result" is the thing that everyone should be trying to avoid.  And part of the legal process is that any individual in this country who is not afraid of defending a malicious prosecution action can bring any claim regardless of what (e.g., waiver) he/she may have signed.


A lawsuit can also be filed by a party who has not signed a waiver, such as someone who traces their illness to your attendance at the event and subsequent transmission to them.  That’s typically the point of the indemnification clause, since the theory is you should have quarantined solo after the event for 14 days and your failure to do so was the reason someone not at the event got sick.


----------



## RayClemence (Sep 4, 2020)

Without the indemnification, the indemnifying parties will never be involved. I just realized that the "never" in this statement is too strong. If an indemnifying party had some "causal" link to the claim (e.g., Johnny on Team XYZ coughed at Jack on Team ABC and Jack catches Covid), then they would be involved even without an indemnification. But consider the following two scenarios: (1) if there is NO indemnification, and Team XYZ played ABC and nothing unusual happened on the field and Jack catches Covid, Jack's claim against the organizer would not involve anyone on XYZ, unless Jack also makes a separate claim against someone on XYZ.  (2) if there is an indemnification, and Team XYZ played ABC and nothing unusual happened on the field and Jack catches Covid, Jack's claim against the organizer would automatically involve XYZ even if Jack does not make a separate claim against anyone on XYZ. In situation (1), it is unlikely that Jack would make a claim against anyone on Team XYZ because any "causal link" might not be strong enough for a litigator to make that claim (e.g., Jack played three other teams), but the "causal link" for the claim against the organizer would be stronger because "Jack likely caught Covid at the tournament" (assuming they could argue that Jack did not engage in any risky behaviors other than playing those three games).


----------



## RayClemence (Sep 4, 2020)

A lawsuit can also be filed by a party who has not signed a waiver, such as someone who traces their illness to your attendance at the event and subsequent transmission to them. That’s typically the point of the indemnification clause, since the theory is you should have quarantined solo after the event for 14 days and your failure to do so was the reason someone not at the event got sick. 

Excellent point, and this raises a separate issue.  If Jimmy plays in this tournament, returns to high school, and immediately rejoins the high school training sessions that are being held, then finds out he caught Covid.  What happens if his classmate Bobby catches Covid after Jimmy returns from Utah?  Could Bobby (who hasn't signed a waiver) make a claim against the tournament organizer?  Should Jimmy be required to quarantine for two weeks before returning to high school practices?


----------



## lancer (Sep 4, 2020)

Crazy soccer parents driving to Utah.  We are flying to SLC in two weeks for a lacrosse tourney.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Sep 4, 2020)

RayClemence said:


> A lawsuit can also be filed by a party who has not signed a waiver, such as someone who traces their illness to your attendance at the event and subsequent transmission to them. That’s typically the point of the indemnification clause, since the theory is you should have quarantined solo after the event for 14 days and your failure to do so was the reason someone not at the event got sick.
> 
> Excellent point, and this raises a separate issue.  If Jimmy plays in this tournament, returns to high school, and immediately rejoins the high school training sessions that are being held, then finds out he caught Covid.  What happens if his classmate Bobby catches Covid after Jimmy returns from Utah?  Could Bobby (who hasn't signed a waiver) make a claim against the tournament organizer?  Should Jimmy be required to quarantine for two weeks before returning to high school practices?


It hardly seems worth it if you have to sign an indemnification agreement and get games like this:




__





						Event Schedule
					






					events.gotsport.com
				




I hope people will at least get a chance to visit Zion.  It's worth a trip.


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## timbuck (Sep 5, 2020)

What is “touch and go soccer”?
Blues on the standings.  Click on the team and this comes up. With a west Coast logo. 





__





						Event Schedule
					






					events.gotsport.com


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 5, 2020)

timbuck said:


> What is “touch and go soccer”?
> Blues on the standings.  Click on the team and this comes up. With a west Coast logo.
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting


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## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

timbuck said:


> What is “touch and go soccer”?
> Blues on the standings.  Click on the team and this comes up. With a west Coast logo.
> 
> 
> ...


Touch and go is like a Toca. Is the place where this team has been practicing full contact since probably June, and they are using west coast logo just to fuck them up. Is that coach a blues coach?? That is just bad and shady someone call west coast people. If you are going to be that shady at least don’t fuck up another club.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 5, 2020)

Maybe a merge?


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## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> Maybe a merge?


Well, hopefully because using the logo from another club to hide yourself.......let’s talk about lawsuits


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## lafalafa (Sep 5, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Touch and go is like a Toca. Is the place where this team has been practicing full contact since probably June, and they are using west coast logo just to fuck them up. Is that coach a blues coach?? That is just bad and shady someone call west coast people. If you are going to be that shady at least don’t fuck up another club.


Dang that's messed up there are several teams using that same facility for months to "practice".

Happen to be nearby to pickup something for another business one night so I wanted to see if they where still in business. 

Was surprised to see it packed,  at a quick glance bunch of people waiting to enter wearing mask and some teams playing .   Didn't go in but at least they are following some sort of prevention.  At least 3-4 different filmilar team colors but all girls not that it matters who so don't ask but good for them.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 5, 2020)

I know some coaches that coach at two clubs, just saying.  I dont know no nothing with this team but many reasons for anything in socal soccer.  Perception and speculation makes things turn into gossip.  Choice morsels for the mortal man....


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 5, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Dang that's messed up there are several teams using that same wherehouse for months to "practice".
> 
> Happen to be nearby to pickup something for another business one night so I wanted to see if they where still in business.
> 
> Was surprised to see it packed,  at a quick glance bunch of people waiting to enter wearing mask and some teams playing .   Didn't go in but at least they are following some sort of prevention.  At least 3-4 different filmilar team colors but all girls not that it matters who so don't ask but good for them.


Whatever it takes to play soccer.  It's like it's outlawed now days and kids are out moon shinning illegal soccer games.  Others like my goat, have to obey and drive out of state to get our legal kool aid.  Oh boy, let's see how this weekend goes.


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## ToonArmy (Sep 5, 2020)

The guy that runs touch and go is not affiliated with clubs other than being a dad with kids on club teams but not west coast and not 06. I'm not sure if he rents out his facility to teams I just know he has always done private and group lessons. I also drove by it recently and saw a group training outside mostly wearing Bama colors


----------



## ToonArmy (Sep 5, 2020)

That's the old west coast logo pre oc surf


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## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

Is touch and go a cal south club now? Yes that’s an old west coast logo, at least whoever is charting camouflaging the team did a little research. Do whatever you want but dude be honest and don’t get anybody else involved behind their back. Hopefully a merger. Anybody has any info?


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 5, 2020)

I like, Give & Go FC


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## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> I like, Give & Go FC


Probably be a west coast Sc Blues Touch and ho merger I didn’t know about, if you look at the team sheet they even have a cal south ranking and all.


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 5, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Probably be a west coast Sc Blues Touch and ho merger I didn’t know about, if you look at the team sheet they even have a cal south ranking and all.


Lulu, I'm lost as you are.  So much is happening and so fast.  Stability is gold these days and i found that for my family and for my DD soccer wise.  Our team is coming together nicely.  I dont believe any of the girls have given a verbal yet so our team needs to get into playing shape for the hardest league in the country, top down IMO.  Were like the SEC of football, no joke.  These AZ games/scrimmages will have very little to do with "winning" and more to do with bonding and getting in game shape for Fall SW ECNL championship run.  Have you seen the teams in the 04 ECNL Division SW Lulu?  Hello?  We need to ball now or we will be in big trouble.  Time to play real soccer game with ref and all, and that's what our team is doing and I'm super stoked.  I'm looking forward to spending time with my DD for 8 hours each way.  We play my song and then your song.  Two peas and a pod we are


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 5, 2020)

watfly said:


> I might be losing my mind and this is going to be a super unpopular opinion, but based upon what I've read I'm beginning to think that the protests weren't a significant cause of spreading the virus.


I doubt it.  Remember that it's racist to ask someone if they were protesting.


----------



## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> Lulu, I'm lost as you are.  So much is happening and so fast.  Stability is gold these days and i found that for my family and for my DD soccer wise.  Our team is coming together nicely.  I dont believe any of the girls have given a verbal yet so our team needs to get into playing shape for the hardest league in the country, top down IMO.  Were like the SEC of football, no joke.  These AZ games/scrimmages will have very little to do with "winning" and more to do with bonding and getting in game shape for Fall SW ECNL championship run.  Have you seen the teams in the 04 ECNL Division SW Lulu?  Hello?  We need to ball now or we will be in big trouble.  Time to play real soccer game with ref and all, and that's what our team is doing and I'm super stoked.  I'm looking forward to spending time with my DD for 8 hours each way.  We play my song and then your song.  Two peas and a pod we are


Good, I’m up for every parent makes their own decision on where to go do scrimmages and how important soccer is for your family now. We are both unemployed now bc of Covid so we can’t go soccer is in the back burner now for our kids and is now only for wealthy families. We are not. All that is weird is using another club’s old logo to hide, just own it and don’t try to fuck anybody else. Hoping is a merger a nobody trying to harm anybody else.


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## ToonArmy (Sep 5, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> I like, Give & Go FC


Pick & Roll FC


----------



## paytoplay (Sep 5, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Probably be a west coast Sc Blues Touch and ho merger I didn’t know about, if you look at the team sheet they even have a cal south ranking and all.


Blues Holley 06 ecrl team

18-0,CDA Slammers over Rage FC


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## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Blues Holley 06 ecrl team
> 
> 18-0,CDA Slammers over Rage FC


Hmmm this is a mystery, there another blues team on the 04 but they are also called “Touch and go” did Blues sell their teams to touch and go maybe. It’s weird that none of the 25 parents on the roster didn’t notice they have a west coast logo when you check for schedules or standings. This is a Utah mystery. Hopefully they have fun.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 5, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Hmmm this is a mystery, there another blues team on the 04 but they are also called “Touch and go” did Blues sell their teams to touch and go maybe. It’s weird that none of the 25 parents on the roster didn’t notice they have a west coast logo when you check for schedules or standings. This is a Utah mystery. Hopefully they have fun.


No sale or merger.  It’s the same Blues Coach B. Holly.  Maybe she has some affiliation with the facility and is using the name just as we had Goats FC, CandyCorns, etc....


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 5, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Blues Holley 06 ecrl team
> 
> 18-0,CDA Slammers over Rage FC


Pop warner scrimmage score?


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 5, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> No sale or merger.  It’s the same Blues Coach B. Holly.  Maybe she has some affiliation with the facility and is using the name just as we had Goats FC, CandyCorns, etc....


"Pink shooting stars"


----------



## paytoplay (Sep 5, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> No sale or merger.  It’s the same Blues Coach B. Holly.  Maybe she has some affiliation with the facility and is using the name just as we had Goats FC, CandyCorns, etc....


Bit childish to use the West Coast logo


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## paytoplay (Sep 5, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> Pop warner scrimmage score?


Mormon massacre


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## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> No sale or merger.  It’s the same Blues Coach B. Holly.  Maybe she has some affiliation with the facility and is using the name just as we had Goats FC, CandyCorns, etc....


Got it just confused bc they still used blues name plus touch and go plus west coast.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 5, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Got it just confused bc they still used blues name plus touch and go plus west coast.


Understandable!


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## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Bit childish to use the West Coast logo


Yes, especially nowadays that clubs, coaches teams can get suspended. Or just who’s bringing the Rona back from another state, involving other clubs in your shit is just not good it’s dangerous and can get everyone in trouble


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 5, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Yes, especially nowadays that clubs, coaches teams can get suspended. Or just who’s bringing the *Rona back from another state,* involving other clubs in your shit is just not good it’s dangerous and can get everyone in trouble


What is Rona?  Actually, I just google it.  Wow, your that concerned about someone coming back from AZ with Rona?  LB residents should be dead by now.  Everyone is at the beach today.  Where do you live?  I would be more concerned with people bring the Rona from the beach imo.


----------



## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

C


Soccerhelper said:


> What is Rona?


corona virus


----------



## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> What is Rona?  Actually, I just google it.  Wow, your that concerned about someone coming back from AZ with Rona?  LB residents should be dead by now.  Everyone is at the beach today.  Where do you live?  I would be more concerned with people bring the Rona from the beach imo.


Listen is hard I live in OC and practically nobody cares, beaches and parks are full all the time. I understand that people don’t care. My best friend lost 6 member of his family last month all in 2 weeks, plus many more people we know. Is personal for us so we are careful


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 5, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Listen is hard I live in OC and practically nobody cares, beaches and parks are full all the time. I understand that people don’t care. My best friend lost 6 member of his family last month all in 2 weeks, plus many more people we know. Is personal for us so we are careful


6 from Rona?  Wow, I'm super sorry to hear that.  Are they all from OC?  Also, I understand losing everything.  That was me in 2017.  I call it the, "August Ass Kicking."  So many life lessons.


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## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> 6 from Rona?  Wow, I'm super sorry to hear that.  Are they all from OC?  Also, I understand losing everything.  That was me in 2017.  I call it the, "August Ass Kicking."  So many life lessons.


Yeah from Santa Ana. There’s over 1,000 people dead from Covid in Santa Ana I probably  knew a quarter of them I grew up in Santa Ana Anaheim area.so is different for us


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 5, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Yeah from Santa Ana. There’s over 1,000 people dead from Covid in Santa Ana I probably  knew a quarter of them I grew up in Santa Ana Anaheim area.so is different for us


OC Register says just over 1,000+ died from or with Corona since March.  No way they can all be from SA?  And you knew 250 of them who died of Covid?


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 5, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> OC Register says just over 1,000+ died from or with Corona since March.  No way they can all be from SA?  And you knew 250 of them who died of Covid?


What HS did you go to Lulu?


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## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

S


Soccerhelper said:


> What HS did you go to Lulu?


All around century Santa Ana high and savanah


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## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

I


Soccerhelper said:


> OC Register says just over 1,000+ died from or with Corona since March.  No way they can all be from SA?  And you knew 250 of them who died of Covid?


 had to close Facebook every time I open it it was someone else dying, not only from Santa Ana Anaheim also got very hard. Because a job I used to have when o was younger and we have a huge family we know a lot of people


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## Gkdad1 (Sep 5, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Yeah from Santa Ana. There’s over 1,000 people dead from Covid in Santa Ana I probably  knew a quarter of them I grew up in Santa Ana Anaheim area.so is different for us


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## timbuck (Sep 5, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Got it just confused bc they still used blues name plus touch and go plus west coast.


I’d like to know  what player cards were used.  And how do the Utah teams feel about so cal teams finding some type of loophole to play in a sanctioned tournament?


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## futboldad1 (Sep 5, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I’d like to know  what player cards were used.  And how do the Utah teams feel about so cal teams finding some type of loophole to play in a sanctioned tournament?


Why do you care so much?


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## timbuck (Sep 5, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> Why do you care so much?


After I typed that-  I asked myself the same question. I guess I really don’t.  I just like to see how people find ways to justify using loopholes. 
My kid did say to me “it sounds fun hanging with everyone in a hotel in a state that is open.”  
So I understand the “why”. I just want to understand the “how”.


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## SoccerFan6 (Sep 5, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I’d like to know  what player cards were used.  And how do the Utah teams feel about so cal teams finding some type of loophole to play in a sanctioned tournament?


What loophole?  Tournaments are allowed in AZ and Utah.  Is there some rule I’m not aware of about not traveling across state lines to play?


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## timbuck (Sep 5, 2020)

Player cards.  Different team names listed on the schedule.


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## SoccerFan6 (Sep 5, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Yeah from Santa Ana. There’s over 1,000 people dead from Covid in Santa Ana I probably  knew a quarter of them I grew up in Santa Ana Anaheim area.so is different for us


Ummmm


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## Lulu22 (Sep 5, 2020)

SoccerFan6 said:


> Ummmm


I meant my friends family that passed away was from Santa Ana, a lot of people from those areas I know. We have a little side business with my cousin we provided caretakers for elderly and took them to doctors appointments and stuff like that so we know a lot of elderly people that got affected by Covid all over Orange County. We see it everyday


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## Soccerfan2 (Sep 5, 2020)

SoccerFan6 said:


> What loophole?  Tournaments are allowed in AZ and Utah.  Is there some rule I’m not aware of about not traveling across state lines to play?


Your club’s agreement with your county probably includes something about keeping the same cohort together. Once you take a team elsewhere and mix them with other players you’re no longer following the plan you agreed to with the county. So it would make sense that if you take some players you don’t do it in your club’s name.


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## dad4 (Sep 5, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> Your club’s agreement with your county probably includes something about keeping the same cohort together. Once you take a team elsewhere and mix them with other players you’re no longer following the plan you agreed to with the county. So it would make sense that if you take some players you don’t do it in your club’s name.


That, and some teams only have half the kids willing to travel right now.  When the team is from 5 different clubs, a neutral name can help.


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## SoccerFan6 (Sep 5, 2020)

dad4 said:


> That, and some teams only have half the kids willing to travel right now.  When the team is from 5 different clubs, a neutral name can help.


Thank you, that makes sense.  I was genuinely curious.


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## mlx (Sep 5, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> Why do you care so much?


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## socalkdg (Sep 6, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Of course the protests were a bad idea that spread the virus.
> 
> Are we talking about the BLM protests or the anti-shutdown protests?  They kind of look the same to me.....


They are and we are talking about both.  Then again we let people fly still sitting in planes for 5 hours.


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## socalkdg (Sep 6, 2020)

Almost 10000 cases from Santa Ana.  What is happening in that City and what can we do to improve?   Are they not wearing masks and social distancing?  Something else?   Didn’t realize it was that bad in that city.


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## ToonArmy (Sep 6, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Almost 10000 cases from Santa Ana.  What is happening in that City and what can we do to improve?   Are they not wearing masks and social distancing?  Something else?   Didn’t realize it was that bad in that city.


I know it's hard to believe but it's true Santa Ana has the 4th highest population density in the United States. We don't live on top of each other like New York City but we pack our houses full that's why you can't find parking in front of your own house. At one time the positive cases in the OC main jail located in downtown were counted as positive cases in the city and there were a lot of positive tests in there. I don't know if that has ever stopped or not. Masks are worn. Lots of homeless junkies meth using street zombies riding stolen bikes not wearing masks.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 6, 2020)

ToonArmy said:


> I know it's hard to believe but it's true Santa Ana has the 4th highest population density in the United States. We don't live on top of each other like New York City but we pack our houses full that's why you can't find parking in front of your own house. At one time the positive cases in the OC main jail located in downtown were counted as positive cases in the city and there were a lot of positive tests in there. I don't know if that has ever stopped or not. Masks are worn. Lots of homeless junkies meth using street zombies riding stolen bikes not wearing masks.


I love SA.  My bio mom and adopted mom signed paper work in 1966 to keep me alive on Grand Ave.  My mom's husband had his heart attack on Main St in 1954 and passed away.  SA is historic and awesome city in OC and I hate to see all the deaths over there.  My old HS coach coached at Santa Ana Valley HS.  Saddleback had some really good teams as well.  This is the 1% time I'm being serious on here.  Let's all help SA anyway we can.


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## ToonArmy (Sep 6, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> I love SA.  My bio mom and adopted mom signed paper work in 1966 to keep me alive on Grand Ave.  My mom's husband had his heart attack on Main St in 1954 and passed away.  SA is historic and awesome city in OC and I hate to see all the deaths over there.  My old HS coach coached at Santa Ana Valley HS.  Saddleback had some really good teams as well.  This is the 1% time I'm being serious on here.  Let's all help SA anyway we can.


I can go on and on about sports teams from the city during it's glory years in football and basketball in the late 80s back when there were only 3 high schools SA,Valley, saddleback but I'll keep it to soccer. Saddleback boys I believe in 05 was national champs. Godinez state champs a few years ago. Frankie Amaya Segerstrom HS was first pick in MLS draft a couple years ago. Someone mentioned Century hs on this thread. Amigry Pineda went there currently plays in USL he was the first American to be invited to the Nike training academy in London. And there is currently 3 girls on Mexico U-something national team UCLA UCI and Princeton players.


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## El Clasico (Sep 6, 2020)

ToonArmy said:


> I can go on and on about sports teams from the city during it's glory years in football and basketball in the late 80s back when there were only 3 high schools SA,Valley, saddleback but I'll keep it to soccer. Saddleback boys I believe in 05 was national champs. Godinez state champs a few years ago. Frankie Amaya Segerstrom HS was first pick in MLS draft a couple years ago. Someone mentioned Century hs on this thread. Amigry Pineda went there currently plays in USL he was the first American to be invited to the Nike training academy in London. And there is currently 3 girls on Mexico U-something national team UCLA UCI and Princeton players.


Amergy Pineda demonstrates to me a lot that is wrong with soccer in the United States. So much potential just wasted...


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## ITFC Blues (Sep 6, 2020)

This is what US Club Soccer has said about traveling to other states.  They indicate that they still need to follow the rules of your *local* health department.  It also indicates that *insurance may not be in effect for clubs that travel to other states to play if it conflicts with their local and state rules.*  The real question is to be answered is whether or not a club that allows their teams to travel to another state to take advantage of lower requirements is acting responsibly.  In addition, if the participants and their families return to the club for training after the tournament, is the club acting responsibly by allowing them to participate in training, knowing that they acted in conflict with the local rules.  Will the clubs require the teams to stay away for 14 days in order to protect other members?  There's so much conflicting information out there it's hard to tell, but it seems reasonable that local health departments could take some sort of action if they are aware that teams did not act in accordance with their rules.  

*Q: For an activity that takes place in a different municipality or state than the member/member organization resides or is based, which local and state public health requirements and orders are applicable?*

Members/member organizations are responsible to ensure they understand and comply with the requirements and orders of local and state public health authorities applicable to their activities. *This means that a member/member organization must comply with the rules and orders of the locality(ies) and state(s): (1) in which the member/member organization resides/is based*; (2) where the activity is held; and (3) through which the member may travel while the member is in that locality or state.

*Q: What if the applicable local and state public health authorities have conflicting requirements/orders?*


In this situation, US Club Soccer encourages members to consult with their local and state public health authorities and legal counsel.

We recognize that does not answer the specific question of whether an activity is sanctioned by US Club Soccer and therefore covered by US Club Soccer-provided insurance. However, given the unique circumstances of each claim and the particular issues that may exist between local and state authorities, our insurance provider cannot provide a blanket determination. Our understanding after discussions with US Club Soccer’s insurance provider is that *the insurance provider would take into consideration whether the member/member organization acted reasonably in such a situation*.


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## chiefs (Sep 6, 2020)

Pa


ITFC Blues said:


> This is what US Club Soccer has said about traveling to other states.  They indicate that they still need to follow the rules of your *local* health department.  It also indicates that *insurance may not be in effect for clubs that travel to other states to play if it conflicts with their local and state rules.*  The real question is to be answered is whether or not a club that allows their teams to travel to another state to take advantage of lower requirements is acting responsibly.  In addition, if the participants and their families return to the club for training after the tournament, is the club acting responsibly by allowing them to participate in training, knowing that they acted in conflict with the local rules.  Will the clubs require the teams to stay away for 14 days in order to protect other members?  There's so much conflicting information out there it's hard to tell, but it seems reasonable that local health departments could take some sort of action if they are aware that teams did not act in accordance with their rules.
> 
> *Q: For an activity that takes place in a different municipality or state than the member/member organization resides or is based, which local and state public health requirements and orders are applicable?*
> 
> ...


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## chiefs (Sep 6, 2020)

Pa
[/QUOTE]
US Soccer doesn’t have your kids best interest at heart; they have zero idea the mental state of each individual child.  Just ignore this garbage


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## paytoplay (Sep 7, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> No sale or merger.  It’s the same Blues Coach B. Holly.  Maybe she has some affiliation with the facility and is using the name just as we had Goats FC, CandyCorns, etc....


06 age group, 3 SCDSL mediocre flight one teams beating up the locals. Blues “T&G” 19-0 over Utah Rage.


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## ITFC Blues (Sep 7, 2020)

Of course US Club Soccer has their own best interests at heart, it's all about limiting exposure to liability.  Their guidance is meant to push the liability to the clubs.  That is why many clubs will choose to follow the guidance and not leave themselves exposed.  Some clubs will take the risk and hope for the best.  Clubs will try to push liability to the parents as well. One has to wonder if the waivers are invalidated by the clubs actions in traveling outside of their local area.  The leagues will likely hold the line and this is likely why the start of league play is on hold, all dates are tentative dates.   Liability is also why The English FA dropped 2 players for violating the quarantine rules.  The players lost an opportunity to  represent England tomorrow.  Going back to youth soccer ( a business)  in the US, it's not really about player's mental state, it's about Liability and Public Health.  What clubs are doing by crossing state lines to find a location where they can play is not much different than what the England players did.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 7, 2020)

ITFC Blues said:


> Of course US Club Soccer has their own best interests at heart, it's all about limiting exposure to liability.  Their guidance is meant to push the liability to the clubs.  That is why many clubs will choose to follow the guidance and not leave themselves exposed.  Some clubs will take the risk and hope for the best.  Clubs will try to push liability to the parents as well. One has to wonder if the waivers are invalidated by the clubs actions in traveling outside of their local area.  The leagues will likely hold the line and this is likely why the start of league play is on hold, all dates are tentative dates.   Liability is also why The English FA dropped 2 players for violating the quarantine rules.  The players lost an opportunity to  represent England tomorrow.  Going back to youth soccer ( a business)  in the US, it's not really about player's mental state, it's about Liability and Public Health.  What clubs are doing by crossing state lines to find a location where they can play is not much different than what the England players did.


Does your DD play for Blues?  What age?  Welcome to the crazy socal soccer forum.  How long you been lurking here?


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 7, 2020)

@ITFC Blues.  What's your take about crossing State Lines to play poker in Vegas?  What is acceptable to do across state line besides many of my friends who are leaving and never coming back?  We had so many people in Corona Del Mar as well.  I'm thinking we should quarantine all those who went to da beach and have them stay in their houses for 14 days.  What say you Blues?


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## keeprunning (Sep 7, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> 06 age group, 3 SCDSL mediocre flight one teams beating up the locals. Blues “T&G” 19-0 over Utah Rage.


This is garbage. Can't the coach find something to work on other than shooting?


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 7, 2020)

keeprunning said:


> This is garbage. Can't the coach find something to work on other than shooting?


I think them goats were making up for all the goals they didnt get to score the last 7 months.  Goats take no prisoners in sports.  Never let an opponent think they have a chance to win.  18-0 and now 19-0 is making this team #1 in the country when GotResults comes out with their 2020-2021 top 10 teams.  Talk about getting your goals worth.  My gosh, nice job ladies and way to represent Socal!!!


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## futboldad1 (Sep 7, 2020)

ITFC Blues said:


> What clubs are doing by crossing state lines to find a location where they can play is not much different than what the England players did.


seriously? the debuting England players had girls in their hotel room and broke curfew..... totally incomparable to clubs/teams/families wanting to play where they are legally allowed to having be forced in front of a computer for 6 months.........with due respect, your post is illogical.


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## dad4 (Sep 7, 2020)

keeprunning said:


> This is garbage. Can't the coach find something to work on other than shooting?


Soccer could use a mercy rule.  

No real point in playing after it gets to 7-0.  Just declare a winner and be done with it.


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## dean (Sep 7, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Soccer could use a mercy rule.
> 
> No real point in playing after it gets to 7-0.  Just declare a winner and be done with it.


Yeah, I don't know what's worse - watching a clearly dominant team run up the score or watching the dominant play keep away with ease, while the weaker team endlessly chases the ball. That's rough to watch, too.

I think the best thing I've seen is when the dominant team starts removing players from the field. Suddenly, the dominant team (say, with only 7-8 players on the field) looks even with the weaker team (with 11 players). Then you have a more competitive/exciting game.

But when families are traveling out-of-state for a tournament, kids want to play and parents want to see their kids play.


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## timbuck (Sep 7, 2020)

Some teams scored more goals than they spent per hour driving there and back.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 7, 2020)

timbuck said:


> What is “touch and go soccer”?
> Blues on the standings.  Click on the team and this comes up. With a west Coast logo.
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly. I just saw that today. And posted that question in another thread. It’s BH teams.


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## Texas2Cali (Sep 7, 2020)

BH as in Brandy Holley from SC Blues. Why does Coach Holley have to go through Touch and Go Soccer to get player cards so her team can play in Utah? Is is not legit to play with cards from her affiliated club?


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 7, 2020)

Texas2Cali said:


> BH as in Brandy Holley from SC Blues. Why does Coach Holley have to go through Touch and Go Soccer to get player cards so her team can play in Utah? Is is not legit to play with cards from her affiliated club?


I was curious what the T&G were too. But, the WCFC emblem leaves a big question mark.


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## Giesbock (Sep 7, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> I think them goats were making up for all the goals they didnt get to score the last 7 months.  Goats take no prisoners in sports.  Never let an opponent think they have a chance to win.  18-0 and now 19-0 is making this team #1 in the country when GotResults comes out with their 2020-2021 top 10 teams.  Talk about getting your goals worth.  My gosh, nice job ladies and way to represent Socal!!!


19-0 is silly. Obviously the wrong tournament for one or the other team.  I say the team that drove (or flew) got the short end of the stick!  
Did they learn something? Improve?  Hopefully weren’t too over the top in their post game celebration.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 7, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> 19-0 is silly. Obviously the wrong tournament for one or the other team.  I say the team that drove (or flew) got the short end of the stick!
> *Did they learn something? Improve?*  Hopefully weren’t too over the top in their post game celebration.


Every time the girls play an actual soccer game, they learn something.  Today's lesson of 19-0?  The girls from Utah know how good this BH team is and watch out.  Blues is here to stay.  For example, my HS team played the Long Beach Poly Jack Rabbits in our own Christmas tournament back in the 80s.  I got called up as a Fr to sit and watch my brothers get worked over.  I got to play last 3 minutes and the nice players from Long Beach dunked on me.  I went up for the block and it was on.  I did hit a layup and i picked a guy who wasn;t paying attention on the end bounds after my layup. Two in a row and a fun time for sure.  My dreams of UCLA ended after that game too.  They kicked our ass and taught us how to play hoops in Laguna.  I know they scored 100 on us.  I think we got 43.  No shot clock and they did not go four corners on us.  I would hate it if a team played keep away in in any sports, especially hoops.  I would walk off.  Come and score and we will try and do the same.  Let your GK play Striker in the second half.  Sit the starters.  Play with less players and give the Utah team a chance to find the net too.  37-0, wow!!

Q.  Maybe typo?  9-0 and 8-0 sounds better......


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## Desert Hound (Sep 7, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Soccer could use a mercy rule.
> 
> No real point in playing after it gets to 7-0.  Just declare a winner and be done with it.


Jeez. Did you look at their other games? http://events.gotsport.com/events/schedule.aspx?eventid=79707&FieldID=0&applicationID=5926768&action=Go

At some point early on you have to call off the dogs.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 7, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Jeez. Did you look at their other games? http://events.gotsport.com/events/schedule.aspx?eventid=79707&FieldID=0&applicationID=5926768&action=Go
> 
> At some point early on you have to call off the dogs.


Pop Warner would be prod of the defense.  I told you Socal is the Mecca of girls soccer.


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## Desert Hound (Sep 7, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> Pop Warner would be prod of the defense.  I told you Socal is the Mecca of girls soccer.


Keep your credit card handy. You will soon owe me a couple of drinks 

My DD has been studying your goats moves....


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## Texas2Cali (Sep 7, 2020)

Weird, why isn't it Blues across the cards, team name and logo? 

Seems like another instance of something sketchy, like when Rob Rennie runs a camp with no social distancing, awards an MVP, but then his face is blurred out when it gets posted here.



LASTMAN14 said:


> I was curious what the T&G were too. But, the WCFC emblem leaves a big question mark.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 7, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Keep your credit card handy. You will soon owe me a couple of drinks
> 
> My DD has been studying your goats moves....


Wait until my video is completed by my new pal I met on here.  I found a few that just blue my mind....lol.  She was too young. I'm waiting on defense videos so my dd can study the great one in AZ.  Strikers only need to get by defense once to score.  Defense is 100% the hardest spot.  I tell my goat to always be willing to go where da coach puts you.  I hear some college coaches might convert some players to what they need so they win.  Looking forward to scrimmages in a few months.  Practice road trip bonding and build team chemistry to help win.  Timing is perfect!!!


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## dad4 (Sep 7, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> Every time the girls play an actual soccer game, they learn something.  Today's lesson of 19-0?  The girls from Utah know how good this BH team is and watch out.  Blues is here to stay.  For example, my HS team played the Long Beach Poly Jack Rabbits in our own Christmas tournament back in the 80s.  I got called up as a Fr to sit and watch my brothers get worked over.  I got to play last 3 minutes and the nice players from Long Beach dunked on me.  I went up for the block and it was on.  I did hit a layup and i picked a guy who wasn;t paying attention on the end bounds after my layup. Two in a row and a fun time for sure.  My dreams of UCLA ended after that game too.  They kicked our ass and taught us how to play hoops in Laguna.  I know they scored 100 on us.  I think we got 43.  No shot clock and they did not go four corners on us.  I would hate it if a team played keep away in in any sports, especially hoops.  I would walk off.  Come and score and we will try and do the same.  Let your GK play Striker in the second half.  Sit the starters.  Play with less players and give the Utah team a chance to find the net too.  37-0, wow!!
> 
> Q.  Maybe typo?  9-0 and 8-0 sounds better......


The other two games were 18-0 and 16-1.

Just a poorly balanced bracket.  The 3 strong teams had an ok tournament.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 7, 2020)

dad4 said:


> The other two games were 18-0 and 16-1.
> 
> Just a poorly balanced bracket.  The 3 strong teams had an ok tournament.


And all the teams gotto play and that's a positive


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## paytoplay (Sep 7, 2020)

dad4 said:


> The other two games were 18-0 and 16-1.
> 
> Just a poorly balanced bracket.  The 3 strong teams had an ok tournament.


Judging by the scores, these SoCal teams entered a flight 3 tournament. Congratulations to that


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## timbuck (Sep 7, 2020)

dad4 said:


> The other two games were 18-0 and 16-1.
> 
> Just a poorly balanced bracket.  The 3 strong teams had an ok tournament.


I don’t know much about soccer in Utah. I know they are in the middle of high school soccer season right now. Are high school players allowed to play club during the season?
When do Utah club leagues have their first games of the season?


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## mlx (Sep 7, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Soccer could use a mercy rule.
> 
> No real point in playing after it gets to 7-0.  Just declare a winner and be done with it.


I'm against mercy rules. It's disrespectful to Fútbol, to players. And it's for pussies and for the weak.  Teach your kids not to be pussies and take it holding their head high, like real men and women.


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## paytoplay (Sep 7, 2020)

mlx said:


> I'm against mercy rules. It's disrespectful to Fútbol, to players. And it's for pussies and for the weak.  Teach your kids not to be pussies and take it holding their head high, like real men and women.


At least they’re wearing their own dojo’s uniforms


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## dad4 (Sep 7, 2020)

mlx said:


> I'm against mercy rules. It's disrespectful to Fútbol, to players. And it's for pussies and for the weak.  Teach your kids not to be pussies and take it holding their head high, like real men and women.


Your argument is that by beating up on a weak sauce team you prove how macho you are?

Got it.  You go, tough guy.


You do know that is fiction and those are actors, right?


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## Grace T. (Sep 8, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I don’t know much about soccer in Utah. I know they are in the middle of high school soccer season right now. Are high school players allowed to play club during the season?
> When do Utah club leagues have their first games of the season?


I don’t know about high school but for middle and elementary schoolers the season begins early August and state cup is late October. From the month or so we were there and from the wasatch team my son follows on YouTube, my general impression is that except for the academy the level of play certainly isn’t as deep as SoCal. My son in his gk camps (the player at which were supposedly flight 1 and flight 2 players) kept getting moved up in age groups and the girls on the gk end were particularly weak (the boys made it up with athleticism). Where they do have a leg up on us is the facilities...lots of beautiful fields (we were on some great pitches in Farmington, Sandee, Park City and Salt Lake) and they play quite a lot of futsal (due to snow in winter). Part of the issue is the aggregation of talent....because Utah is a big agrarian state, outside of Salt Lake City and suburbs, it’s difficult to assemble a non rec team because distances are large between small towns. My favorite part was the 80 miles per hour speed limit. We were in park city but folks thought we were crazy driving down the mountain into Farmington and Sandee for soccer 40 minutes....I explained it was less than a typical commute in SoCal.  It has a much more rec feeling to it and imho the tempo of the game is much more running soccer (outside of the academy which is a real academy with high level training)...in that way it felt much more like England than it did Spain or Socal (which are the places I have at least limited soccer experience with) with talent at least on the boys end being aggregated at the academy.


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## socalkdg (Sep 8, 2020)

Our lower 05 team played this past weekend.  It was in the Open division.   06 to 03's.   They won their first 3 games 6-1 over FC Mesquite Moapa, 7-2 over Surf ME, and 2-0 over OC Surf.   They then lost to So Cal Blues 18-0.   I heard this team was made up of some 03 and 04 ECNL players.   We had hoped to join the team to get some game time for my keeper, but their two keepers were going.   

Honestly I would have loved to had her face the So Cal BLues team.  More shots, more practice, more experience.   Here keeper coach was there and said might only have been 3-0 if she had been there and kept them in the game, but we will never know.   But getting the chance to face 30-40 shots in a game is great no matter what the outcome is.

The team was still pretty happy with the whole weekend, even losing that last game in the semi finals.  Big wins or big losses, it is still playing soccer.


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## gotothebushes (Sep 8, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> Your club’s agreement with your county probably includes something about keeping the same cohort together. Once you take a team elsewhere and mix them with other players you’re no longer following the plan you agreed to with the county. So it would make sense that if you take some players you don’t do it in your club’s name.


 That is exactly right! It also has something to do with your clubs insurance.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 8, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Our lower 05 team played this past weekend.  It was in the Open division.   06 to 03's.   They won their first 3 games 6-1 over FC Mesquite Moapa, 7-2 over Surf ME, and 2-0 over OC Surf.   *They then lost to So Cal Blues 18-0*.   I heard this team was made up of some 03 and 04 ECNL players.   We had hoped to join the team to get some game time for my keeper, but their two keepers were going.
> 
> *Honestly I would have loved to had her face the So Cal BLues team*.  More shots, more practice, more experience.   Here keeper coach was there and said might only have been 3-0 if she had been there and kept them in the game, but we will never know.   But getting the chance to face 30-40 shots in a game is great no matter what the outcome is.
> 
> The team was still pretty happy with the whole weekend, even losing that last game in the semi finals.  Big wins or big losses, it is still playing soccer.


GK's dream.  It's like taking batting practice against Randy Johnson.  Why not test yourself against the best.  Great attitude bro.


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## ITFC Blues (Sep 15, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> seriously? the debuting England players had girls in their hotel room and broke curfew..... totally incomparable to clubs/teams/families wanting to play where they are legally allowed to having be forced in front of a computer for 6 months.........with due respect, your post is illogical.


The players actually didn't have the "girls" in their rooms.  They were staying on the 3rd floor.  They had pre arranged for the women to get rooms in the same hotel.  The women's rooms were on the 7th floor.  Once the players left the 3rd floor " Bio Bubble" and went to another floor they had broken the rules.  The rest of the details just sell newspapers.  The players were required to stay on the 3rd floor in their bio bubble and left the bio secure floor. That is the similarity to leaving the county to play in another county with different rules.


----------

