# Club Cost - Refunds



## met61 (Jul 3, 2020)

Anyones Club stepped up to address the 800lb gorilla in the room - Partial Refund?

At this point, they've provided significantly less service for the $$$$.


----------



## timbuck (Jul 3, 2020)

Our June payment got delayed. But $550 came out on July 1. No mention of “what’s next”


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 3, 2020)

We all need a HERO to save us.  I give up.  Just have the coaches lay off the rest of the year and collect the $600 a week plus what the state gives. Allow the parents a one time soccer donation write off and call it a day.


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 3, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> We all need a HERO to save us.  I give up.  Just have the coaches lay off the rest of the year and collect the $600 a week plus what the state gives. Allow the parents a one time soccer donation write off and call it a day.


$600 unemployment program has ended


----------



## LB Mom 78 (Jul 3, 2020)

met61 said:


> Anyones Club stepped up to address the 800lb gorilla in the room - Partial Refund?
> 
> At this point, they've provided significantly less service for the $$$$.


The clubs will milk every penny they can from the families.  Do not get your hopes up one bit  that they are even thinking about refunding a dime.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 3, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> $600 unemployment program has ended


True dat.  However, the Hero program or something like it is on the table.  With all the shut downs looming in certain non essential businesses caused by Corona, they will have some dough for those folks and all youth coaches will get some relief.  Most will not get the $600 after July. Bar employees will need some help too.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 3, 2020)

LB Mom 78 said:


> The clubs will milk every penny they can from the families.  Do not get your hopes up one bit  that they are even thinking about refunding a dime.


Pay as you go is my advice.  4 camp sessions+4 more camp sessions=keep deposit.  Let's see how everyone feels on Monday.  For more months before Nov 3rd.


----------



## timbuck (Jul 3, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Our June payment got delayed. But $550 came out on July 1. No mention of “what’s next”


And we just ordered new uniform and backpack last week.  $300 more.  
Thanks Obama. Or Trump.  Or whoever


----------



## MacDre (Jul 4, 2020)

timbuck said:


> And we just ordered new uniform and backpack last week.  $300 more.
> Thanks Obama. Or Trump.  Or whoever


Blame it on the rain...


----------



## timbuck (Jul 4, 2020)

The Rain, huh?


----------



## Glitterhater (Jul 4, 2020)

I mentioned this too on another thread, it flipping sucks!

$350 for reg fees, then week later July dues pull out, we have sunk in over $500 in a 10 day period for foot skills in a 10x10 box. How they can charge the same amount for monthly dues when we're getting easily less than half of what we got prior to covid blows my mind. What other service would we ever be ok with this type of return??


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 4, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> I mentioned this too on another thread, it flipping sucks!
> 
> $350 for reg fees, then week later July dues pull out, we have sunk in over $500 in a 10 day period for foot skills in a 10x10 box. How they can charge the same amount for monthly dues when we're getting easily less than half of what we got prior to covid blows my mind. What other service would we ever be ok with this type of return??


----------



## LB Mom 78 (Jul 4, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> I mentioned this too on another thread, it flipping sucks!
> 
> $350 for reg fees, then week later July dues pull out, we have sunk in over $500 in a 10 day period for foot skills in a 10x10 box. How they can charge the same amount for monthly dues when we're getting easily less than half of what we got prior to covid blows my mind. What other service would we ever be ok with this type of return??


The Clubs know the parents are in fear of the kid being blacklisted, demoted, etc... if a parent speaks up. The clubs rule by the sword!


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 4, 2020)

LB Mom 78 said:


> The Clubs know the *parents are in fear of the kid being blacklisted*, demoted, etc... if a parent speaks up. The clubs rule by the sword!


Not this dad......lol!!!! Don;t let the virus of fear control you and I do believe good coaches are out there.  I'm paying with hopes of a future but not paying for a discount this time around.


----------



## Paul Spacey (Jul 5, 2020)

I’ve said before that every club is different in terms of their numbers, financial outgoings, the way they structure their operations etc. However, nobody is immune from doing what is right and fair as far as their setup and finances will allow.

We don’t know if there is going to be a fall season and with that in mind, we haven’t asked parents for any club fees. August 1st is our first payment date (originally pushed back from May) and if we get closer to that time and things don’t look any better, that date will again either be pushed back or canceled completely. I don’t expect a pat on the back for saying this because it seems right and fair; our parents will NOT be charged if we are not having a fall season.

For the record, our club has received no government aid or loans.

How we act as individuals and organizations during this time of uncertainty (and financial struggle for many people) really does speak volumes. If $’s are prioritized over trying to do what’s right and fair for families at your club, my personal feeling is that people won’t forget it. Then again, given the nature of club soccer and the way $’s are invariably the driving force for everything, maybe parents will just accept it. Who knows.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 5, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> I’ve said before that every club is different in terms of their numbers, financial outgoings, the way they structure their operations etc. However, nobody is immune from doing what is right and fair as far as their setup and finances will allow.
> 
> *We don’t know if there is going to be a fall season and with that in mind, we haven’t asked parents for any club fees. August 1st is our first payment date (originally pushed back from May) *and if we get closer to that time and things don’t look any better, that date will again either be pushed back or canceled completely. I don’t expect a pat on the back for saying this because it seems right and fair; our parents will NOT be charged if we are not having a fall season.
> 
> ...


My old business partner told me too many chefs in da kitchen makes for a very troublesome time if the business fails.  I told Lew, "were not going to fail bro."  Lew said. "Do you know what a cash call is with owners?"  I said, "no."  He said basically you find out a lot about your partners when business is going to shut down or is failing.  Have you guys started any camps?  What age?  ECNL?  BTW, I love what your doing in bold


----------



## Glitterhater (Jul 5, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> I’ve said before that every club is different in terms of their numbers, financial outgoings, the way they structure their operations etc. However, nobody is immune from doing what is right and fair as far as their setup and finances will allow.
> 
> We don’t know if there is going to be a fall season and with that in mind, we haven’t asked parents for any club fees. August 1st is our first payment date (originally pushed back from May) and if we get closer to that time and things don’t look any better, that date will again either be pushed back or canceled completely. I don’t expect a pat on the back for saying this because it seems right and fair; our parents will NOT be charged if we are not having a fall season.
> 
> ...


You have room for an 07G offensive midfielder?


----------



## Paul Spacey (Jul 5, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> My old business partner told me too many chefs in da kitchen makes for a very troublesome time if the business fails.  I told Lew, "were not going to fail bro."  Lew said. "Do you know what a cash call is with owners?"  I said, "no."  He said basically you find out a lot about your partners when business is going to shut down or is failing.  Have you guys started any camps?  What age?  ECNL?  BTW, I love what your doing in bold


Great story and spot on btw. 

Yeah we’ve been doing some small group camps for our players; field space will dictate if we can do any open camps for more kids this summer like we usually do.

FCE, small club in CSL (a few silver teams, some silver elites and gold) so limited options in terms of team offerings.

Thanks for the bold shout; just seems like the right thing to do but I know everyone’s situation is different.

I hope as much as anyone that we have a fall season so let’s stay positive. At this point I’d pay out of my own pocket to be back on the field then!


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 5, 2020)

Clubs need to figure out plan B if the season ends short or never starts.   I have no problem paying coaches to continue to do zoom but it has to be at a significant discount.  We cannot continue to play full fees to go back to zoom from August through April? May?      What happens if parents break the contract and stop paying altogether? Will the club take parents to small claims court?   Will courts even listen to the complaint?  They are going to be closed as well.  

We all are entering an uncharted territory and clubs can’t think that parents just need to continue to pay full price if we go back to zoom.


----------



## timbuck (Jul 5, 2020)

Zoom is not sustainable. Kids hate it


----------



## Glitterhater (Jul 5, 2020)

I feel for the clubs, I really do. I have no idea how some will survive. But-we are all feeling the crunch, (or a good percentage anyway,) and at some point the clubs have to realize that.
They can't penalize us for quitting, can they? Especially if they aren't providing much in the way of service?


----------



## notintheface (Jul 5, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Zoom is not sustainable. Kids hate it


Completely agree here - Zoom fatigue is real, especially for youngers. Only being able to see your friends on a screen is giving kids more stress, not less. Even masking up at practice and making it just skills-based would be preferable.

There's going to be a whole generation of kids who will be amazing at juggling and can't keep their team shape at all.


----------



## Glitterhater (Jul 5, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Completely agree here - Zoom fatigue is real, especially for youngers. Only being able to see your friends on a screen is giving kids more stress, not less. Even masking up at practice and making it just skills-based would be preferable.
> 
> There's going to be a whole generation of kids who will be amazing at juggling and can't keep their team shape at all.


This x a million. So many still don't know the game and this is just making that worse.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 5, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> Great story and spot on btw.
> 
> Yeah we’ve been doing some small group camps for our players; field space will dictate if we can do any open camps for more kids this summer like we usually do.
> 
> ...


Hang in there.  Go for the local brand and when this is all over, those who were patient and took care of their customers and treated them like family will still be in business.  I'm impatient and live my life like, "live for today because tomorrow is not promised."  However, you cant run a successful business like that imo.  That's why I could never be the sole owner.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 5, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Completely agree here - Zoom fatigue is real, especially for youngers. Only being able to see your friends on a screen is giving kids more stress, not less. Even masking up at practice and making it just skills-based would be preferable.
> 
> There's going to be a *whole generation of kids who will be amazing at juggling *and can't keep their team shape at all.


Already was happening before the virus.  We had too many games anyways so all the girls get a little breather.  If you have youngers, this will look way better for you next year.  My kid is sweet 16 and it's almost all over and the way things look, she might have played her last game of club already.  Zoom is lame and practicing by yourself is lame.  Games or cancel, that's my vote with my pocket book of credit cards....lol!!!  I will deal with it whatever they choose.  Just remember everyone, WE ALL Remember.  10% today if we play soccer in the fall.  5% fat chance we have Surf Cup Labor Day.  After Labor Day is cancelled, we will just have two more months before all this is over.


----------



## Paul Spacey (Jul 5, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Zoom is not sustainable. Kids hate it


Agreed. It was a viable short term solution but kids got tired of it.


----------



## Paul Spacey (Jul 5, 2020)

I will say one thing I’ve noticed during this extended break; kids seem to have grown a lot and the niggling injuries some had previously have cleared up. Good example of the benefits of rest, sleep and recovery.


----------



## Frank (Jul 5, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> I mentioned this too on another thread, it flipping sucks!
> 
> $350 for reg fees, then week later July dues pull out, we have sunk in over $500 in a 10 day period for foot skills in a 10x10 box. How they can charge the same amount for monthly dues when we're getting easily less than half of what we got prior to covid blows my mind. What other service would we ever be ok with this type of return??


Is your school giving you refunds on your taxes or tuition (private)?  I bet not. The clubs, much like the schools, are doing the maximum that they are allowed. They are not the ones holding back.  Call Comrade Newsom


----------



## Glitterhater (Jul 5, 2020)

Frank said:


> Is your school giving you refunds on your taxes or tuition (private)?  I bet not. The clubs, much like the schools, are doing the maximum that they are allowed. They are not the ones holding back.  Call Comrade Newsom


Who said he was my comrade? Unless I'm confused doesn't that word lend itself to meaning I stand with him? Because I can assure you, I do not. And unless I was typing while asleep, I don't remember saying I agreed with anything he does.
And I can still be salty about dues.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Jul 5, 2020)

LB Mom 78 said:


> The Clubs know the parents are in fear of the kid being blacklisted, demoted, etc... if a parent speaks up. The clubs rule by the sword!


It's easy. If you don't want to support your club or want them to be there when you return don't pay. Clubs are no different than any other business. No-one is getting rich in the youth soccer game from this pandemic. Don't want to pay? lose the service. Very simple. I'm guessing the club would happily not take your money, which you've probably already not paid for anyway.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 5, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Blame it on the rain...


Oh look... more black people pretending to be something they aren't... victims.


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 5, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> I will say one thing I’ve noticed during this extended break; kids seem to have grown a lot and the niggling injuries some had previously have cleared up. Good example of the benefits of rest, sleep and recovery.


Stupid question....if you don't charge any fees now and you didn't get the loan, how you paying your coaches?


----------



## Paul Spacey (Jul 5, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Stupid question....if you don't charge any fees now and you didn't get the loan, how you paying your coaches?


Coaches do not get paid in June/July during the off-season. I believe this is fairly consistent among clubs outside of those who perhaps play through the summer and maybe pay coaches for 12 months rather than 10. Are you connected to a club that pays coaches year-round?


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 5, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> Coaches do not get paid in June/July during the off-season. I believe this is fairly consistent among clubs outside of those who perhaps play through the summer and maybe pay coaches for 12 months rather than 10. Are you connected to a club that pays coaches year-round?


Every club I know is different. Some pay coaches 10 month, some 12 month and some don't (teams paying coaches fee directly to coaches).
Another question...if your club can't start in August, will you have to let go of your coaches?


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Jul 5, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> Coaches do not get paid in June/July during the off-season. I believe this is fairly consistent among clubs outside of those who perhaps play through the summer and maybe pay coaches for 12 months rather than 10. Are you connected to a club that pays coaches year-round?


So you're not really giving the parents a break, this is your normal time of year to not collect?...and you're also offering private training in LA county to balance the check book which is let's be honest....not allowed in LA County.


----------



## Paul Spacey (Jul 5, 2020)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> So you're not really giving the parents a break, this is your normal time of year to not collect?...and you're also offering private training in LA county to balance the check book which is let's be honest....not allowed in LA County.


 Sunil Illuminati; another one hiding behind a pseudonym.

If you bothered to read my reply to the OP, I made it clear that we had pushed back payment dues from May to August and that they will be pushed back again or canceled completely IF we don’t have a fall season.

Given your expert knowledge, you will no doubt be aware that camps ARE allowed in LA County. We are complying with all camp guidelines.

What is your club doing? We all have different setups and agendas so it’s interesting to hear from others.


----------



## Paul Spacey (Jul 5, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Every club I know is different. Some pay coaches 10 month, some 12 month and some don't (teams paying coaches fee directly to coaches).
> Another question...if your club can't start in August, will you have to let go of your coaches?


You didn’t answer my question.

To answer yours; no, none of our small coaching staff will be let go come August if we don’t have a fall season.


----------



## Speed (Jul 6, 2020)

Frank said:


> Is your school giving you refunds on your taxes or tuition (private)?  I bet not. The clubs, much like the schools, are doing the maximum that they are allowed. They are not the ones holding back.  Call Comrade Newsom


I think this comment is spot on. The clubs want to get back just as much as the kids do. But the control is out of their hands. Like schools these are unchartered territories. 

For now we are able to spend time at the beach doing lots of surfing. Looking forward to when we are in full practice and playing mode. And fully expect both kids will be out of shape but very excited to play soccer. I think the pure joy of playing will be back after the reprieve from the grind of practices, tournaments and yelling coaches. And...we have had time as a family come up with some really good one liners to shut him down should he be heard from behind his mask.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 6, 2020)

Speed said:


> I think this comment is spot on. The clubs want to get back just as much as the kids do. But the control is out of their hands. Like schools these are unchartered territories.
> 
> For now we are able to spend time at the beach doing lots of surfing. Looking forward to when we are in full practice and playing mode. And fully expect both kids will be out of shape but very excited to play soccer. I think the pure joy of playing will be back after the reprieve from the grind of practices, tournaments and yelling coaches. And...we have had time as a family come up with some really good one liners to shut him down should he be heard from behind his mask.


Surfing is excellent way to stay in shape.  Have kids run on the beach a little too and then when soccer comes back, they wont be burned out and feel like they gave up their summer to play soccer in the heat.  Time for a cool summer of fun.  Two days a week summer camp is splendid.  i remember when I went to camp it was for a week.  Now, camp is two days a week for 1 hour


----------



## Surf Zombie (Jul 6, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> I’ve said before that every club is different in terms of their numbers, financial outgoings, the way they structure their operations etc. However, nobody is immune from doing what is right and fair as far as their setup and finances will allow.
> 
> We don’t know if there is going to be a fall season and with that in mind, we haven’t asked parents for any club fees. August 1st is our first payment date (originally pushed back from May) and if we get closer to that time and things don’t look any better, that date will again either be pushed back or canceled completely. I don’t expect a pat on the back for saying this because it seems right and fair; our parents will NOT be charged if we are not having a fall season.
> 
> ...


My DD plays for Scorpions ECNL here in MA. The club gave a $600 credit towards tuition based upon the missed spring season, lowered the deposit this year down to $250 (from I think $700 last year), didn’t raise fees for 2020-2021 and said they won’t take any more $ until the fall season is confirmed. We’ve been back to practice for three weeks now.

Other clubs around here gave little to no refunds, raised prices from last year and are taking thousands of dollars from families in tuition over the summer with built in “no refund” clauses.

Those families are furious and many have switched clubs already. One woman I know had several kids at one of those clubs and had been there for 10 years and pulled all of them because of it.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 6, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> Sunil Illuminati; another one hiding behind a pseudonym.
> 
> If you bothered to read my reply to the OP, I made it clear that we had pushed back payment dues from May to August and that they will be pushed back again or canceled completely IF we don’t have a fall season.
> 
> ...


Most appreciate your well reasoned input...Sunil Illuminati is a knob, other than driving by shooting his pop-gun, he's basically insignificant, contributing nothing of value...not worth a second of polishing.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 6, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Most appreciate your well reasoned input...Sunil Illuminati is a knob, other than driving by shooting his pop-gun, he's basically insignificant, contributing nothing of value...not worth a second of polishing.


Something we agree on.


----------



## SoccerFan (Jul 6, 2020)

Frank said:


> Is your school giving you refunds on your taxes or tuition (private)?  I bet not. The clubs, much like the schools, are doing the maximum that they are allowed. They are not the ones holding back.  Call Comrade Newsom


Clubs offered contracts and charged for a Fall soccer season service. No Fall season=no service=refunds


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 6, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Something we agree on.


All things are possible.


----------



## KJR (Jul 7, 2020)

Some perspective from an independent club with ~150 girls... Shortly before the shutdown, we paid for our next field permit period; we also paid for our insurance. So that money is spent, and while the permit fees should be refunded (eventually, but no one is refunding money quickly right now), we anticipate higher field costs once we're allowed to play again, because cities and school systems are in desperate financial shape. So at some point this calendar year we're going to need even more money to cover that.

At the same time, we have a coaching staff who we think highly of, who we have (in some cases) spent years training in to our system and philosophy. Not only do we like them personally and want to stick by them during a challenging time, they would be difficult, and expensive, to replace. So we need money to pay them -- to help keep them in their homes so we can keep them in the club.

Additionally, most of the standard fundraising that clubs do (like raffles) are pretty impractical right now. And the number of families requiring financial assistance at our club (as at all clubs, probably) is increasing. 

So we're asking for dues in order to, essentially, run in place: to keep our staff and be ready to pay for fields as soon as we're allowed to. It's kind of like the remote training we're doing -- it's meant to keep everyone reasonably fit and connected, to "run in place," until they can play together again. Dues are an investment we're asking families to make in the club because they believe in what we're doing and want to support it, and because they want to make sure their daughter has her spot. 

That doesn't sound unreasonable from the club side; I get that the idea of spending money for a service when you're not receiving the full service feels weird, but these are weird times. If you believe in your club and its coaches and want it to continue, it probably can't run in place without dues coming in.

I can't speak for club's with larger endowments; but one thing we've seen this year is how close to the edge a lot of companies have been operating, no matter how secure they looked.

And just so there's no confusion: every club needs to make its own choices, based on its own situation. We're in the middle of LA with limited field access and incredibly high permit costs; other clubs don't have that issue. We can't afford to just cancel club dues. But we're also committed to access, so our families pay what they can afford if it's not the full rate; as long as everyone pays something.

There's no playbook for this, but I think we're all trying to figure out how to be as fair to our families as possible while making sure our clubs come out of this the way they went in. I would just say that it's _unlikely_ any clubs are "getting rich" right now.


----------



## Paul Spacey (Jul 7, 2020)

KJR said:


> Some perspective from an independent club with ~150 girls... Shortly before the shutdown, we paid for our next field permit period; we also paid for our insurance. So that money is spent, and while the permit fees should be refunded (eventually, but no one is refunding money quickly right now), we anticipate higher field costs once we're allowed to play again, because cities and school systems are in desperate financial shape. So at some point this calendar year we're going to need even more money to cover that.
> 
> At the same time, we have a coaching staff who we think highly of, who we have (in some cases) spent years training in to our system and philosophy. Not only do we like them personally and want to stick by them during a challenging time, they would be difficult, and expensive, to replace. So we need money to pay them -- to help keep them in their homes so we can keep them in the club.
> 
> ...


Great perspective; and this is why every club and situation is different, just like you touched on in your message. You make extremely good points with reference to field costs and coach retention among other things; clearly yours is a well-run club (and that is reflected on the field and via your reputation which is very good).

For us, after initially moving back our payment dates from May to August, this week we are planning to indefinitely suspend club dues for our team parents until we know we are getting back on the field (basically, we won't be asking for anything until it is confirmed we will be fully practicing and playing again). We have other plans to support coaches in the meantime and again, that's just our choice and way of doing things during these uncertain, somewhat crazy times.


----------



## oh canada (Jul 7, 2020)

KJR said:


> Some perspective from an independent club with ~150 girls... Shortly before the shutdown, we paid for our next field permit period; we also paid for our insurance. So that money is spent, and while the permit fees should be refunded (eventually, but no one is refunding money quickly right now), we anticipate higher field costs once we're allowed to play again, because cities and school systems are in desperate financial shape. So at some point this calendar year we're going to need even more money to cover that.
> 
> At the same time, we have a coaching staff who we think highly of, who we have (in some cases) spent years training in to our system and philosophy. Not only do we like them personally and want to stick by them during a challenging time, they would be difficult, and expensive, to replace. So we need money to pay them -- to help keep them in their homes so we can keep them in the club.
> 
> ...


@KJR - good insight.  Did your club receive PPP?  I think clubs should be transparent with their families whether they received PPP $.  On another thread, there's discussion re Albion and Legends receiving $350K - $1MM and Blues, Surf, etc. receiving up to $350K.  If families know the club didn't receive PPP, I think they would be much more likely and content paying dues to support the club, especially those that are not double-dipping from taxpayers AND their soccer families.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 7, 2020)

KJR said:


> Some perspective from an independent club with ~150 girls... Shortly before the shutdown, we paid for our next field permit period; we also paid for our insurance. So that money is spent, and while the permit fees should be refunded (eventually, but no one is refunding money quickly right now), we anticipate higher field costs once we're allowed to play again, because cities and school systems are in desperate financial shape. So at some point this calendar year we're going to need even more money to cover that.
> 
> At the same time, we have a coaching staff who we think highly of, who we have (in some cases) spent years training in to our system and philosophy. Not only do we like them personally and want to stick by them during a challenging time, they would be difficult, and expensive, to replace. So we need money to pay them -- to help keep them in their homes so we can keep them in the club.
> 
> ...


Please advise if your club received PPP and payed coaches using said PPP?


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 7, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> Great perspective; and this is why every club and situation is different, just like you touched on in your message. You make extremely good points with reference to field costs and coach retention among other things; clearly yours is a well-run club (and that is reflected on the field and via your reputation which is very good).
> 
> For us, after initially moving back our payment dates from May to August, this week we are planning to indefinitely suspend club dues for our team parents until we know we are getting back on the field (basically, we won't be asking for anything until it is confirmed we will be fully practicing and playing again). We have other plans to support coaches in the meantime and again, that's just our choice and way of doing things during these uncertain, somewhat crazy times.


Same question as above... 
Please advise if your club received PPP and payed coaches using said PPP?


----------



## Paul Spacey (Jul 7, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Same question as above...
> Please advise if your club received PPP and payed coaches using said PPP?


Fair question and I agree with you that clubs should be transparent about it. No, I mentioned this already earlier in the thread I believe; we received no PPP or financial help. While not surprised to hear that some might be double-dipping, my guess is that the majority of clubs are honest enough not to do this.

At risk of virtue signaling; I'll say straight up that we are extremely transparent and open about everything with our parents, regardless of how it makes us look. When we fuck up, we just admit it. Because it doesn't happen often and we're honest when it does, forgiveness is easier to come by.  Along with the coaching aspect of course, this transparent approach has allowed us to establish a solid reputation in a short time.

IMO transparency and honesty is the best option for any business or organization in the long run, even if it sometimes hurts you in the short term. Each to their own; in the end we all generally reap what we sow.

Shut up now Paul, people don't want to hear you preaching


----------



## KJR (Jul 7, 2020)

oh canada said:


> @KJR - good insight.  Did your club receive PPP?  I think clubs should be transparent with their families whether they received PPP $.  On another thread, there's discussion re Albion and Legends receiving $350K - $1MM and Blues, Surf, etc. receiving up to $350K.  If families know the club didn't receive PPP, I think they would be much more likely and content paying dues to support the club, especially those that are not double-dipping from taxpayers AND their soccer families.


I don't know the details of other clubs' finances, but I completely agree that they should be transparent with their families re: federal assistance they've received. We didn't apply for (or receive) any PPP.


----------



## pacificislandhopper (Jul 10, 2020)

Searched the SBA database to find PPP loan amounts... Just downloaded the $150k and over.  Here's the socal list of PPP funds I was able to locate.
A couple I dug for by their address as their club name is not current.  

Downloadable CSV doc available here:  https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program



Amount ReceivedNameNotesAddress CityStateZipd $350,000-1 millionAMERICAN YOUTH SOCCER ORGANIZATION19750 S. VERMONT AVE SUITE 200TORRANCECA90502​c $1-2 millionAMERICAN SOCCER COMPANY, INCORPORATED726 E. ANAHEIM STWILMINGTONCA90744​d $350,000-1 millionINLAND YOUTH SOCCER EDUCATION PROGRAMaka Legends (same address)13851 ROSWELL AVECHINOCA91710​d $350,000-1 millionCARLSBAD UNITED FCaka City SC (same address)5375 AVENIDA ENCINAS SUITE CCARLSBADCA92008​d $350,000-1 millionPENINSULA SOCCER LEAGUE525 Bacon StSAN DIEGOCA92107​e $150,000-350,000SAN DIEGO LOYAL SOCCER CLUB LLC12264 EL CAMINO REAL #207SAN DIEGOCA92130​e $150,000-350,000SAN DIEGO SURF SOCCER3525 DEL MAR HEIGHTS RD Suite 892SAN DIEGOCA92130​e $150,000-350,000U K INTERNATIONAL SOCCER CAMPS INC525 AMIGOS DR STE 1REDLANDSCA92373​d $350,000-1 millionOC PROFESSIONAL SOCCER LLC20 FAIRBANKSIRVINECA92618​e $150,000-350,000SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA BLUES SOCCER CLUB IN26941 CABOT RD STE 131LAGUNA HILLSCA92653​e $150,000-350,000IRA HERMANN, CLV, CHFC4695 MACARTHUR CT 1000NEWPORT BEACHCA92660​d $350,000-1 millionCALIFORNIA STATE SOCCER ASSOCIATION1029 S. Placentia AveFULLERTONCA92831​


----------



## lafalafa (Jul 10, 2020)

pacificislandhopper said:


> Searched the SBA database to find PPP loan amounts... Just downloaded the $150k and over.  Here's the socal list of PPP funds I was able to locate.
> A couple I dug for by their address as their club name is not current.
> 
> Downloadable CSV doc available here:  https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program
> ...


Calsouth might be the most egregious one of them all. Double and triple dipping while all the taxpayers are footing the bill for all there "employees" who have done what for the last 5 months? 

Talk about a racket, they take your registration fees, CRL $$, schedule fields that don't have, tell you at the last minute there canceling,  insist on still keeping 25% for national cup or state cup that didn't play, didn't give out refunds for many months, etc meanwhile the fat cats are living large doing nothing but some smug updates about a fifa tournaments and saying things aren't fair.


----------



## pacificislandhopper (Jul 10, 2020)

I'm happy to see soccer clubs receiving PPP money.  That was what it was for, that is smart business practices in securing the funding for their coaches.  Good on them.  But, clubs that received the funds, and are still charging families for club fees and skills camps... that's double dipping!  Not cool!


----------



## jpeter (Jul 11, 2020)

pacificislandhopper said:


> I'm happy to see soccer clubs receiving PPP money.  That was what it was for, that is smart business practices in securing the funding for their coaches.  Good on them.  But, clubs that received the funds, and are still charging families for club fees and skills camps... that's double dipping!  Not cool!


That seems reasonable but are coaches employees or IC's?  Do most really benefit from the 60% or whatever it's is the minimum that has to be used to pay employees?

What's somewhat eye opening is seeing leagues and CS also in on the gravy train.

For example let's say your club gets the up to $1million, they plan in a league that gets the $1 million and is a member of Cal South that gets their million also.  Many $millions$ later what are the taxpayers getting for our money?

Almost seems like a multi-level marketing pyramid kind of scheme so shouldn't refunds or something be given back to the parents or the taxpayers in some form?


----------

