# AYSO santa clarita cracks



## str8baller (Dec 12, 2018)

Just received a mass email from a former president of the valencia region and current assistant area director for area 10S,  harping on United's plan to hire outside people, raise fees, and move toward a "professional club" plan.  He then recommended another club in the area, FFSC , locals also refer to it as the "For F's Sake Club"...  

Minutes later another member of the region sends out a clarification that the prior email was not authorized nor sanctioned by AYSO...  

I wonder when the resignation will be expected or tendered by those involved.  I'm sure soccer will get more interesting in Santa Clarita.


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## jrcaesar (Dec 12, 2018)

Keep us posted. Just looking: That United program fielded 29 teams this season! So that region (four regions) have gone "all in" on this, plus having Extra teams. I know from our regional admin that volunteerism in AYSO is down about 30% - and so the more they push the most engaged families into their paid program, the fewer soccer enthusiasts who will be involved in the Core program. Will be interesting to see if there will be ripple effects in other regions.


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## socalkdg (Dec 12, 2018)

What are the costs of Extra and United?   We did Extra our 2nd year in soccer and pretty sure if was less than $500 for the whole year, but I thought that United increased costs substantially.


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## Paul Spacey (Dec 12, 2018)

socalkdg said:


> What are the costs of Extra and United?   We did Extra our 2nd year in soccer and pretty sure if was less than $500 for the whole year, but I thought that United increased costs substantially.


I coached a couple of Extra teams some years ago and I believe the total costs were around (or perhaps less than) $500 for the year. In terms of AYSO United, I don't know for sure but I did hear from some parents that the costs are around $1500 (in comparison to $2500 which is probably the average for club soccer) and so it's a decent saving for those parents who struggle financially. That said, if you can afford $1500, you can probably stretch another $1000 over the course of 12 months if you feel that your kid will get better coaching (which isn't always the case with 'normal' clubs as we know; AYSO United actually have some very good coaches).

As always, the AYSO Extra vs United vs Other Clubs issue is always a personal choice for each parent/player based on their circumstances and the clubs/options available to them in their area.

Interestingly, United Pacific were one of the most successful clubs in the whole of CSL this season; proof that AYSO can compete in the club scene. Some other United regions were much less competitive, as you might expect.

I do think that the addition of AYSO's United program will affect and destabilize their Extra program and even their Core programs potentially over the long term, as @jrcaesar highlighted above. AYSO is/was a very good recreational soccer organization. Having both rec and club soccer under the same umbrella could prove problematic for them as time goes on. We'll see how it pans out but my personal feeling is that there will be more issues like the one which looks to be developing in Santa Clarita.


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## Grace T. (Dec 12, 2018)

AYSO is trying to build a tiered program where a player can progress naturally from core to extras to the various levels of club in United to eventually rival DA with the IS64 id plan.  United parents in most regions are expected to perform service (coaching/ref/team parents/field monitor/snack booth) on top of paying the fee so it's actually a way to keep volunteers in, rather than have them leave for club.  Because they have such a large talent pool, it's really easy to recruit the best from the Extras and Core teams, as well as from other clubs, and voila you get a competitive team. 

The division is that the AYSO National Office is really pushing a move to professional based coaching with equivalent salaries.  "Accountability" is the word that I kept hear thrown about.  That will mean United fees will be cheaper than non-AYSO clubs (who may have to subsidize the DA teams as well DOC salaries and field costs-- AYSO has cushy relationship with various parks and recs where in the 90s they developed spaces in return for priority rentals).  They also cut down the cost by not doing as many tournaments or fundraising for them off book and raising money for the ref fees through the team account.  So for a team where coaches are volunteers the expense might be around $500.  For one with paid coaches $1500.  The issue is national wants the teams to switch to professionally based but some regions still believe in the volunteer mantra.

The problem with volunteers is that no matter how well meaning they are, it's difficult to get them fully invested in the training, particularly if they want to break old habits and ideas.  That, plus, the chip on the shoulder of various United clubs about not being respected for only being an "AYSO team", has led to a strange fixation for winning.  One team I saw, for example, built a team around 4 superfast kids that could belt it into the corner of the goal from almost the half.  They swept various tournaments and were only stopped by the TFA flight 1 pre DA team.  But it was some ugly soccer without possession control and largely run and beat the other side after goalkeeper punts.


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 12, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> I coached a couple of Extra teams some years ago and I believe the total costs were around (or perhaps less than) $500 for the year. In terms of AYSO United, I don't know for sure but I did hear from some parents that the costs are around $1500 (in comparison to $2500 which is probably the average for club soccer) and so it's a decent saving for those parents who struggle financially. That said, if you can afford $1500, you can probably stretch another $1000 over the course of 12 months if you feel that your kid will get better coaching (which isn't always the case with 'normal' clubs as we know; AYSO United actually have some very good coaches).
> 
> As always, the AYSO Extra vs United vs Other Clubs issue is always a personal choice for each parent/player based on their circumstances and the clubs/options available to them in their area.
> 
> ...


Agree, having a rec and a club like program could be a problem on many levels.


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## Grace T. (Dec 12, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Agree, having a rec and a club like program could be a problem on many levels.



Meh.  Other clubs have done it like Simi Premiere and Real So Cal.  The rec program gives them a base from which they can mine players.  The Ole club which has had much success recently starts with futsal leagues for the younger ones from which they can select players internally.


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## timbuck (Dec 12, 2018)

Grace T. said:


> AYSO is trying to build a tiered program where a player can progress naturally from core to extras to the various levels of club in United to eventually rival DA with the IS64 id plan.  United parents in most regions are expected to perform service (coaching/ref/team parents/field monitor/snack booth) on top of paying the fee so it's actually a way to keep volunteers in, rather than have them leave for club.  Because they have such a large talent pool, it's really easy to recruit the best from the Extras and Core teams, as well as from other clubs, and voila you get a competitive team.
> 
> The division is that the AYSO National Office is really pushing a move to professional based coaching with equivalent salaries.  "Accountability" is the word that I kept hear thrown about.  That will mean United fees will be cheaper than non-AYSO clubs (who may have to subsidize the DA teams as well DOC salaries and field costs-- AYSO has cushy relationship with various parks and recs where in the 90s they developed spaces in return for priority rentals).  They also cut down the cost by not doing as many tournaments or fundraising for them off book and raising money for the ref fees through the team account.  So for a team where coaches are volunteers the expense might be around $500.  For one with paid coaches $1500.  The issue is national wants the teams to switch to professionally based but some regions still believe in the volunteer mantra.
> 
> The problem with volunteers is that no matter how well meaning they are, it's difficult to get them fully invested in the training, particularly if they want to break old habits and ideas.  That, plus, the chip on the shoulder of various United clubs about not being respected for only being an "AYSO team", has led to a strange fixation for winning.  One team I saw, for example, built a team around 4 superfast kids that could belt it into the corner of the goal from almost the half.  They swept various tournaments and were only stopped by the TFA flight 1 pre DA team.  But it was some ugly soccer without possession control and largely run and beat the other side after goalkeeper punts.


Plenty of teams/clubs have won lots of games playing that way.


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 12, 2018)

Grace T. said:


> Meh.  Other clubs have done it like Simi Premiere and Real So Cal.  The rec program gives them a base from which they can mine players.  The Ole club which has had much success recently starts with futsal leagues for the younger ones from which they can select players internally.


Meh, right...
Not talking the teams transitioning or putting them on the field. But rather the internal logistics of operating a club like entity nationwide/specific geographic areas and on a daily basis. Each geographic location will have its struggles. For example in our area AYSO is losing fields and being asked to pay club like rates. Why? They have expanded their yearly usage. The fields operated by cities/districts are now seeing a decline in revenue. Primarily because AYSO was given a cut rate where as clubs paid far more. Now that AYSO wants fields more they have to pay a more competitive rate. Also, AYSO took advantage of making reservations for fields and letting them sit idle. Furthering the lose of potential earnings.These same cities and districts have approached AYSO on this and now are being monitored. This is one small example in a sample location.


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## Paul Spacey (Dec 12, 2018)

Lots of moving parts @Grace T.  that’s the problem. Yes, it’s a good idea in principle but each section/area/region has their own ideas, as you kind of allude to in your post.

You seem very ‘pro-AYSO’ by the way; no problem with that. You likely have an inside knowledge of how it all works which is helpful.

My concern would be that trying to get all of the different elements (core, extra, United) and their ego’s on the same page is a hugely difficult ask. Next to impossible IMO based on being around many of the ego’s now for a number of years (not just AYSO, youth soccer in general).

The benefits AYSO has enjoyed (as another poster mentioned) will be more closely scrutinized now that they are no longer just a ‘rec’ organization. That in itself will be tricky to navigate from an organizational and financial perspective.

I like the organization and wish them well. I just think there is a bumpy ride ahead.


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 12, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> Lots of moving parts @Grace T.  that’s the problem. Yes, it’s a good idea in principle but each section/area/region has their own ideas, as you kind of allude to in your post.
> 
> You seem very ‘pro-AYSO’ by the way; no problem with that. You likely have an inside knowledge of how it all works which is helpful.
> 
> ...


Yes. AYSO is now being looked at differently. As you stated no longer just a rec program.


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## Grace T. (Dec 12, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> You seem very ‘pro-AYSO’ by the way; no problem with that. You likely have an inside knowledge of how it all works which is helpful.
> 
> My concern would be that trying to get all of the different elements (core, extra, United) and their ego’s on the same page is a hugely difficult ask. Next to impossible IMO based on being around many of the ego’s now for a number of years (not just AYSO, youth soccer in general).
> 
> \.


Like many things, I can see both sides of the story with AYSO.  I agree with Lastman that one of the issues they have organizationally is that they are used to having regions operate independently and not be run by the national office.  The United program is different as each United program is a region more under the control of the National office.  But yes, this fractured organization structure, and the autonomy of the regions, seems to be a great problem in getting everyone on the same page.

I also agree egos are a huge problem, as with most of youth soccer in general.  AYSO is not immune, and if anything the chip on their shoulder makes them even more susceptible.


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 12, 2018)

Grace T. said:


> AYSO is trying to build a tiered program where a player can progress naturally from core to extras to the various levels of club in United to eventually rival DA with the IS64 id plan.  United parents in most regions are expected to perform service (coaching/ref/team parents/field monitor/snack booth) on top of paying the fee so it's actually a way to keep volunteers in, rather than have them leave for club.  Because they have such a large talent pool, it's really easy to recruit the best from the Extras and Core teams, as well as from other clubs, and voila you get a competitive team.
> 
> The division is that the AYSO National Office is really pushing a move to professional based coaching with equivalent salaries.  "Accountability" is the word that I kept hear thrown about.  That will mean United fees will be cheaper than non-AYSO clubs (who may have to subsidize the DA teams as well DOC salaries and field costs-- AYSO has cushy relationship with various parks and recs where in the 90s they developed spaces in return for priority rentals).  They also cut down the cost by not doing as many tournaments or fundraising for them off book and raising money for the ref fees through the team account.  So for a team where coaches are volunteers the expense might be around $500.  For one with paid coaches $1500.  The issue is national wants the teams to switch to professionally based but some regions still believe in the volunteer mantra.
> 
> The problem with volunteers is that no matter how well meaning they are, it's difficult to get them fully invested in the training, particularly if they want to break old habits and ideas.  That, plus, the chip on the shoulder of various United clubs about not being respected for only being an "AYSO team", has led to a strange fixation for winning.  One team I saw, for example, built a team around 4 superfast kids that could belt it into the corner of the goal from almost the half.  They swept various tournaments and were only stopped by the TFA flight 1 pre DA team.  But it was some ugly soccer without possession control and largely run and beat the other side after goalkeeper punts.


Please explain how AYSO ID 64 will rival DA.


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## Grace T. (Dec 12, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Please explain how AYSO ID 64 will rival DA.


No idea.  All I know is part of the long term plan is to have a DA or a DA equivalent at the top of the AYSO pyramid.  It's a few years away, but the point of ID 64 is to lay the ground work by IDing potential players and giving them a pathway to be seen by colleges.  Beyond that: phase 1) steal underpants, phase 2) ?, phase 3) profit!

Like I said, I'm not a proponent....there's a lot that I like in what I see...there's some bad stuff too...and there's some bad stuff that just doubles down on the other bad stuff throughout US soccer.


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 12, 2018)

Grace T. said:


> No idea.  All I know is part of the long term plan is to have a DA or a DA equivalent at the top of the AYSO pyramid.  It's a few years away, but the point of ID 64 is to lay the ground work by IDing potential players and giving them a pathway to be seen by colleges.  Beyond that: phase 1) steal underpants, phase 2) ?, phase 3) profit!
> 
> Like I said, I'm not a proponent....there's a lot that I like in what I see...there's some bad stuff too...and there's some bad stuff that just doubles down on the other bad stuff throughout US soccer.


Got it. Appreciate your reply.
The more AYSO becomes like a club program could derail them in the future or make them no different than any club program anywhere else.
I certainly applaud them for constantly trying to be competitive in this new arena.


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## timbuck (Dec 12, 2018)

I think AYSO would have been fine staying as a "rec only" program.  But when clubs starting offering 7 teams per age group with A,B,C,D,E,F,G teams- the clubs started dipping in to the players that would and should be part of a rec program.


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## Grace T. (Dec 12, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I think AYSO would have been fine staying as a "rec only" program.  But when clubs starting offering 7 teams per age group with A,B,C,D,E,F,G teams- the clubs started dipping in to the players that would and should be part of a rec program.


It's a chicken and egg economics problem.  The clubs started offering those choices because the rec program is so bad (though it will get better as volunteers get more soccer experience). Parents were unsatisfied with what they were getting.

 Many of the rec coaches don't know how to coach and several have never played.  I remember reading a NYT piece by a mom who had never played and didn't know anything about the game but stepped up because no one else would...that's not generally a problem with the United coaches who at least know the fundamentals of the game.  And the rec coaches don't escape some of the same problems on the sidelines that are there with licensed coaches (and if anything might even be more out of control since they are just volunteers and therefore aren't accountable...don't like the way I do it go ahead and fire me).

Then there's the problem of having everyone in the same player pool.  Some kids might not be A team material, but they are better than the fat kid that can't run and is just there to get exercise, the awkward kid who swing and misses any time the ball gets passed to him, or the kid being forced to pick a sport by his parents but has no passion for soccer.

England is organized very differently than we are.  They have a very small academy program...DA and level 1 equivalent and that's pretty much it...no B, C D or E team...this is reserved for boys that want to go pro and not kids that aspire to getting into college.  Then there's a small middle ban of pay to play development clubs for kids hoping to break into the academies (my son's little friend Henry Save All is one of those)...there are arguments over how much of rackett it is.  But then there's a very large rec program and that rec program is tiered....there are A, B, C, D, E, and F levels and the kids float and interchange between the levels depending on how committed they are and how their body is developing.  Their rec program has as big of a kick ball problem as ours does, but it doesn't force the striker who is more technically advanced to wait for billy (who can't pass a ball without swinging and missing) to get him the ball.  AYSO for the longest time felt things should be more democratic...everyone plays together...from the handicapped kid to the gifted striker...it just didn't work as even the C and D level players got frustrated.  AYSO now seems committed to an appropriate tier for every player that wants to play...whether that pans out is still up in the air.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Dec 12, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Please explain how AYSO ID 64 will rival DA.


It won't.


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 12, 2018)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> It won't.


Yup, more than likely not. But it looks like their gonna try.


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## socalkdg (Dec 12, 2018)

Our team came from two Extra teams that combined when they did the age change.   We then pilfered the best athletes from two select teams.   The problem with United was that at $1500 for the year it wasn't that cheap, so the move to a club happened with us keeping our coaches.    Our fees are less than $1000 per year and that is a key for many of our parents.  Now in our 3rd year of club, and after some growing pains(losses due to trying to play possession without having the skill yet), the girls are getting a good grasp on technique, possession, ball control and defence, which has seen a result of more wins.   I believe United needs to keep the cost around $1000 per year or they run the risk into competing with too many other clubs, of which there are hundreds to choose from.


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## younothat (Dec 13, 2018)

Cracks?  This seems like a recurring theme.

Every season there is at least one thread about some AYSO region or coaches going in a different direction,  I cant even recall all the different permutations AYSO has been trying each year; was there plus+, signature, extra, and now united?

I dunno if its fragmentation or lack of focus but AYSO seems to going to all these different directions but some what forgetting about there "core" players.    Some of the non-sanctioned or Latin leagues in different  metro areas now have as many or closer to same amount of players as AYSO.   Why mess with a good thing?  Will AYSO will go back to its roots and start focusing on the core players again and stem the exodus?


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## focomoso (Dec 13, 2018)

Grace T. said:


> England is organized very differently than we are.  They have a very small academy program...DA and level 1 equivalent and that's pretty much it...no B, C D or E team...this is reserved for boys that want to go pro and not kids that aspire to getting into college.  Then there's a small middle ban of pay to play development clubs for kids hoping to break into the academies...


In Poland (the only European system I have experience with) there are only the pro academy side and "play in the park with friends" side. I talked to an academy coach about this and he said that if the kid is talented enough, he'll learn the game well enough by playing everyday with friends rather than in some structured un-fun system. Talent will sort itself out and then it's up to the academies to turn the talented kids into pros. One interesting thing about a country where everyone knows soccer so well is that there are fewer illusions about a kid's potential. If you know soccer, and you know your kid, you know pretty early on whether they're a special talent. In Poland, parents of regular kids don't kid themselves into believing that their kid will ever play pro (and college soccer isn't a thing) so they focus on other things - like school.

This is starting to change as Poland's economy grows. There are now summer camps associated with Bayern and Barcelona and other name clubs that are happy to take kids money based on a dream, but the pro academies pay them no attention. They really are only interested in top talent.


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## Grace T. (Dec 13, 2018)

focomoso said:


> (and college soccer isn't a thing)


But that's the difference isn't it?  And if they had been serious about only taking people who had the potential for the pros into the DA program, they would have much more severely limited it.

Having levels is a good thing for all kids involved.  Suzie striker sitting up top isn't going to get a whole lot play if her teammates can't pass her the ball.  And Billy playing out in the wings doesn't feel great about himself if his teammates never pass him the ball because they know he'll lose it.  If Johnny rockstar is a superstar keeper and no one can get anything in no one is having a good time.  If Sally is playing kids with big legs and is letting everything in and is scared about stopping balls with speed that's not good for her.

p.s. the mexican leagues have an advantage that at least the parents played rec...it's usually in the Mexican or Central style, though, which means it can be a bit rough.


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## jrcaesar (Dec 13, 2018)

Grace T. said:


> United parents in most regions are expected to perform service (coaching/ref/team parents/field monitor/snack booth) on top of paying the fee so it's actually a way to keep volunteers in, rather than have them leave for club.


This is the same at virtually all Cal South soccer clubs - volunteer hours come into play somewhere. The difference is that in AYSO once they leave Core these family volunteers no longer contribute to the overall region in the way that once kept AYSO strong: Figure of 12-14 players on an Extra roster, 7 or 8 of those parents might have been coaching a Core team instead. And now those Extra kids are going to United, so those coaches are also out. We don't see Little League(R) Baseball branching off to create travel ball teams.

I'm not really an AYSO supporter per se (we moved son to club at U10),  but I do support my region and friends/families who are in it (and the ref friends I've made) and still volunteer hours for those people.


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## Grace T. (Dec 13, 2018)

jrcaesar said:


> TThe difference is that in AYSO once they leave Core these family volunteers no longer contribute to the overall region in the way that has kept AYSO strong: Figure of 12-14 players on an Extra roster, 7 or 8 of those parents might have been coaching a Core team instead. And now those Extra kids are going to United, so those coaches are also out. .


United families are still expected to coach a core team, referee the core, be the United Team manager, or man the snack shack for the core program.


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## jrcaesar (Dec 13, 2018)

Grace T. said:


> United families are still expected to coach a core team, referee the core, be the United Team manager, or man the snack shack for the core program.


Could be. I don't see that at United Pacific, but I might not be looking closely enough at it.


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## ultimate20 (Dec 14, 2018)

I saw this email as well.  It was from an ayso employee?/volunteer? who used the ayso email list (hundreds? thousands of addresses?) who appeared to be disgruntled with the direction ayso is going.  He then recommended parents to go check out another club-FFSC.    Crazy.  Maybe a little financial incentive for this guy?   I think the "crack" in the ayso system and their philosophy or direction is a side bar to what appears to be a pretty questionable and possibly corrupt move by this individual.  I wonder what would happen if a club representative/board member of Club A emailed all the club families and recommended they go check out competitor Club C...  Probably wouldn't be employed much longer.  Oh well, more nonsense and just another day in paradise.


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## Soccer43 (Dec 15, 2018)

AYSO took a bad turn IMO when they tried to become something in opposite of their original principles.  Instead of reinvesting in what they do well and working to build that up they decided to become exactly what they have criticized and demeaned from a moral stance for years.    It is sad and misleading to the communities they are in.


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## Paul Spacey (Dec 15, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> AYSO took a bad turn IMO when they tried to become something in opposite of their original principles.  Instead of reinvesting in what they do well and working to build that up they decided to become exactly what they have criticized and demeaned from a moral stance for years.    It is sad and misleading to the communities they are in.


Being successful in a niche is often a very good approach (AYSO have always done this very well in the rec soccer scene) but trying to do everything and take over the world (sure, not quite that but you get my point) is something that could be their downfall. 

Be great at something; don’t just be average at a bunch of things.


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## Grace T. (Dec 15, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> Being successful in a niche is often a very good approach (AYSO have always done this very well in the rec soccer scene) but trying to do everything and take over the world (sure, not quite that but you get my point) is something that could be their downfall.
> 
> Be great at something; don’t just be average at a bunch of things.


Given the huge drop offs they were having at u12 and moving even younger, they had a choice of adapt or die. The choices were to tier up their programs and compete with club, or become an organization devoted primarily to introduce kids to soccer at young ages.  I’m not sure what the right choice is, but given clubs are now competing in the introduction space with their own programs I understand the rationale for the decision.


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## MWN (Dec 15, 2018)

The problem with what AYSO is attempting to do ... compete with US Club and US Youth is that their philosophical model and reputation are ill equipped to do it right.  Of the 3 youth affiliates (AYSO, US Club and US Youth), AYSO owns the recreational soccer space in most of the US, which is valuable.  What we really need is for US Soccer to dictate to its youth affiliates members and say:

Recreational Soccer is the domain of AYSO.
Club/Competitive Soccer is for US Youth and US Club to battle it out ... stay out of AYSO's territory.
USSDA was a bad idea ... oops ... MLS, take it over and work with US Club and/or US Youth and create a 2 tiered academy structure ... MLS fully-funded academies and unaffiliated Pay to Play academies that have a relationship with the MLS academies.


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## timbuck (Dec 15, 2018)

MWN said:


> The problem with what AYSO is attempting to do ... compete with US Club and US Youth is that their philosophical model and reputation are ill equipped to do it right.  Of the 3 youth affiliates (AYSO, US Club and US Youth), AYSO owns the recreational soccer space in most of the US, which is valuable.  What we really need is for US Soccer to dictate to its youth affiliates members and say:
> 
> Recreational Soccer is the domain of AYSO.
> Club/Competitive Soccer is for US Youth and US Club to battle it out ... stay out of AYSO's territory.
> USSDA was a bad idea ... oops ... MLS, take it over and work with US Club and/or US Youth and create a 2 tiered academy structure ... MLS fully-funded academies and unaffiliated Pay to Play academies that have a relationship with the MLS academies.


You are a smart man.  That’s exactly how it should look.


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## Surfref (Dec 16, 2018)

During olders State Cup this past year I was an AR on a girls game between AYSO United and Slammers.  Before the game I overheard several Slammers parents and players saying how this was going to be an easy win against the AYSO ref team.  Well United easily won 6-1.  During the game it was funny to hear the Slammers parents make excuses as to why their team was losing, “they always play bad at these 8am games”, “they are tired from the late game yesterday”, “the girls had trouble sleeping in those bad hotel beds.”  I wanted to turn around and say, “No, your team is just not as good as that “rec” team” then laugh at them.  But, of course I stayed professional and just laughed my ass off in my mind.


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## meatsweats (Dec 16, 2018)

> One team I saw, for example, built a team around 4 superfast kids that could belt it into the corner of the goal from almost the half.  They swept various tournaments and were only stopped by the TFA flight 1 pre DA team.  But it was some ugly soccer without possession control and largely run and beat the other side after goalkeeper punts.


Ha! And you don't think that happens at every club around? Tis the game in America.


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## outside! (Dec 17, 2018)

timbuck said:


> You are a smart man.  That’s exactly how it should look.


With one notable exception, what about the females?


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## MWN (Dec 17, 2018)

outside! said:


> With one notable exception, what about the females?


ECNL was doing a fine job before the USSDA.  The DA added nothing.


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## outside! (Dec 17, 2018)

MWN said:


> ECNL was doing a fine job before the USSDA.  The DA added nothing.


I was referring to the part about MLS. Perhaps that acronym could be replaced with MLS/NWSL. Women's soccer has done at least as much as the men's game to popularize the game in the USA. It should always be included in any conversation about the future of soccer in this country.

ECNL offered a great product, but ECNL was under serving the SD county market, and other markets like North LA and IE in order to protect certain clubs monopolies. If it had not been, GDA would have had a hard time gaining traction. I will agree that USSDA and GDA have multiple problems.


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## chipmonk (Mar 5, 2019)

My kid is in the pilot program for ID64. It's extra playing time and coaching with good coaches and an even better pool of players (fully funded). They will go to some higher profile tournaments. From what I can tell it's not too dissimilar from what all the other mega clubs do. They're trying to help create a healthy part of the pyramid that is the petri dish of youth soccer in the US. There are some growing pains and some ruffling of feathers. (most likely those feathers need ruffling)

Same thing for United as a whole. Some of the coaches are amazing, and some are average. Some play beautiful possession soccer and some play ugly kickball. They the have their amazing, professional coaches creating curriculums for the larger national program to use in each club. Some people care more about the letters on the jersey than finding the best program in their area for their kid's development. In some places and age groups that's a different club. In some places United is the best option. I'd say the # of clubs that can claim they are the best option for all age groups and all tiers is zero. We got one the awesome of ones for my kid. YMMV.




Grace T. said:


> No idea.  All I know is part of the long term plan is to have a DA or a DA equivalent at the top of the AYSO pyramid.  It's a few years away, but the point of ID 64 is to lay the ground work by IDing potential players and giving them a pathway to be seen by colleges.  Beyond that: phase 1) steal underpants, phase 2) ?, phase 3) profit!
> 
> Like I said, I'm not a proponent....there's a lot that I like in what I see...there's some bad stuff too...and there's some bad stuff that just doubles down on the other bad stuff throughout US soccer.


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## Zvezdas (Mar 6, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> Meh.  Other clubs have done it like Simi Premiere and Real So Cal.  The rec program gives them a base from which they can mine players.  The Ole club which has had much success recently starts with futsal leagues for the younger ones from which they can select players internally.


With all do respect to Ole SC, their futsal is not a rec program for kids, majority kids that play friday futsal already play on various local clubs like Real So Cal, Extreme, Eagles etc. They advertised it as "free play" no coaching, no refs, so its more of pick up game venue...


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## Grace T. (Mar 6, 2019)

Zvezdas said:


> With all do respect to Ole SC, their futsal is not a rec program for kids, majority kids that play friday futsal already play on various local clubs like Real So Cal, Extreme, Eagles etc. They advertised it as "free play" no coaching, no refs, so its more of pick up game venue...



Wasn't referring to Friday futsal (which is great BTW).  Was referring to their fall/winter futsal league (targeted for under '09s).  They also have some (really great) summer camps they use to spot young kids.


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## focomoso (Mar 6, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> Wasn't referring to Friday futsal (which is great BTW).  Was referring to their fall/winter futsal league (targeted for under '09s).  They also have some (really great) summer camps they use to spot young kids.


Jumping in here, but where and when is Ole's Friday futsal (and, please, don't say 'Fridays'...)?


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## Grace T. (Mar 6, 2019)

focomoso said:


> Jumping in here, but where and when is Ole's Friday futsal (and, please, don't say 'Fridays'...)?


Fridays. 

In the SFV....west valley soccer or Burbank depending on the age group.  They advertise them on the announcement boards.


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## ultimate20 (Mar 8, 2019)

mlx said:


> I heard an 07 team from United is going over to Pats (whole team with coach) is that true or just end-of-season rumor mill?


What area. There are dozens of each.


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## pitchcrazy (May 3, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> AYSO is trying to build a tiered program where a player can progress naturally from core to extras to the various levels of club in United to eventually rival DA with the IS64 id plan.  United parents in most regions are expected to perform service (coaching/ref/team parents/field monitor/snack booth) on top of paying the fee so it's actually a way to keep volunteers in, rather than have them leave for club.  Because they have such a large talent pool, it's really easy to recruit the best from the Extras and Core teams, as well as from other clubs, and voila you get a competitive team.
> 
> The division is that the AYSO National Office is really pushing a move to professional based coaching with equivalent salaries.  "Accountability" is the word that I kept hear thrown about.  That will mean United fees will be cheaper than non-AYSO clubs (who may have to subsidize the DA teams as well DOC salaries and field costs-- AYSO has cushy relationship with various parks and recs where in the 90s they developed spaces in return for priority rentals).  They also cut down the cost by not doing as many tournaments or fundraising for them off book and raising money for the ref fees through the team account.  So for a team where coaches are volunteers the expense might be around $500.  For one with paid coaches $1500.  The issue is national wants the teams to switch to professionally based but some regions still believe in the volunteer mantra.
> 
> The problem with volunteers is that no matter how well meaning they are, it's difficult to get them fully invested in the training, particularly if they want to break old habits and ideas.  That, plus, the chip on the shoulder of various United clubs about not being respected for only being an "AYSO team", has led to a strange fixation for winning.  One team I saw, for example, built a team around 4 superfast kids that could belt it into the corner of the goal from almost the half.  They swept various tournaments and were only stopped by the TFA flight 1 pre DA team.  But it was some ugly soccer without possession control and largely run and beat the other side after goalkeeper punts.


thank you for the info!  this is an interesting thread.  I'm looking for options for my son as we are new to the area.


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## pitchcrazy (May 3, 2019)

pitchcrazy said:


> thank you for the info!  this is an interesting thread.  I'm looking for options for my son as we are new to the area.





mlx said:


> Santa Clarita .





ultimate20 said:


> What area. There are dozens of each.


Someone in another post is bashing SCV.  I would love to hear everyone else's experiences with the clubs in SCV...…….


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## NickName (May 3, 2019)

pitchcrazy said:


> Someone in another post is bashing SCV.  I would love to hear everyone else's experiences with the clubs in SCV...…….


Keep in mind that this board can be as toxic as any I have ever seen.  There are very opinionated people and I tend to see the darkest of answers on here.

There are excellent coaches and clubs in SCV, just like everywhere else.  

What works for one parent (should be the kid but often not) doesnt work for another.  Kid is on a great team but gets less play time and suddenly the coach, team, club and the entire system is a dumpster fire.

Take your kid to tryouts, ultimately they should be the one that likes/dislikes the coach/team.  

There is every level in town, flight 3/bronze to flight 1/gold.
https://fcvalencia.com/
https://scv.pateadores.org/
https://www.realsocal-scv.com/
https://www.scscsoccerclub.com/
https://www.ffsc.net/

Some are on facebook 

Have your kid ask around at school.  Good way to discover teams

Have fun, ignore the negativity around here.


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## pitchcrazy (May 3, 2019)

NickName said:


> Keep in mind that this board can be as toxic as any I have ever seen.  There are very opinionated people and I tend to see the darkest of answers on here.
> 
> There are excellent coaches and clubs in SCV, just like everywhere else.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info!  Yes, there are some trolls for sure!


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## NickName (May 3, 2019)

pitchcrazy said:


> Thank you for the info!  Yes, there are some trolls for sure!


Crap, totally forgot AYSO.
https://ayso678.org/
http://www.ayso46.org/

there are others that Im forgetting about.  My apologies, its not intentional


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## pitchcrazy (May 3, 2019)

NickName said:


> Crap, totally forgot AYSO.
> https://ayso678.org/
> http://www.ayso46.org/
> 
> there are others that Im forgetting about.  My apologies, its not intentional


Gracias!


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