# What If We Hit The Reset Button?



## The Ghost of Johan Cruyff (Feb 26, 2020)

You ever play Madden when the computer decides there is no way you are going to win the game? Fumbles, interceptions, injuries, etc. If you were anything like me when I was a kid the only solution on a guaranteed L was to hit the reset button. 

Have we reached that point with youth soccer? Does anyone else feel like it has become so complex with so many super, duper, mega elite leagues and so much bad blood between people who support themselves by finding new ways to shake down parents that we should just hit the reset button? 

I'd bet 90 of 100 people who were asked that would say "yes." But that is not my question. My question is what do we do on D1? There are a lot of people on this forum who know more about this game and have been around a lot longer than I have so I'm interested in their solutions. I'm not trying to bait anyone into an argument but I think i've only heard one poster (new wave?) who suggest a reasonable solution with the 4 counties. Any one else? What does a new soccer world look like? Maybe more importantly what does a club look like to be successful in your new world? 

I have nothing to offer. I can't wrap my head around such a big topic. so, there it is...anyone brave enough to try? I'd rpefer to focus on the younger groups so we dont have to consider the high schools, colleges and other external entities. 

What would you do if you could start soccer over????


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## SoccerFan4Life (Feb 26, 2020)

1. 3 month mandatory break for all teams under the age of 12 

2. State cup for youth to end by December 

3. One league (scdsl+csl) 

4. 3 flights. 

5. One academy program for all.  

6. Public universities need to recruit players from the high school pool and not just academy programs.


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## Soccerhelper (Feb 26, 2020)




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## Soccerhelper (Feb 26, 2020)

I wrote this over in our HS Soccer Section.  Thought you all would like to see this opinion I wrote.  I love this.

Mater Dei’s boys basketball team this season traveled to Arizona, Las Vegas, Oregon, West Virginia and Massachusetts.

GDA is run just like a private school travel sports league. In fact, the one's most in charge of the socal DA probably all send their kids to private school. Private schools can travel all they want because the teachers have to support the athletes. Public school kids need to be in their chair everyday so the school can get paid. Plus, traveling all over the country to play soccer and missing school sends the wrong message and I agree. Private school teachers can tell little Sally not to worry about her homework and test and go win for the Monarchs and she can take it when she gets back from her 6 day soccer trip to Florida. Public school teacher might say, "I don;t care about your little soccer trip, you need to be here to take the tests and turn in homework or get an "F." The coaches and Docs then put a full court guilt pressure defense on the kid and say, "That's too bad Sally, all the D1 one coaches and YNT scouts will be there and they really want to see you play. Oh well, good luck being seen by college coaches." Sally comes home crying because she feels torn. She wants to play with her friends from HS but also wants to use soccer as a vehicle into college. However, she is being made to believe you have to go fly across the country and play in the cold and maybe not even play because Sally comes off the bench most of the time.

Lastly, the GDA was put together to find the "best of the best" in all of the United States of America so they can put together the best team possible to represent this great country of ours. You can't tell me your league is doing that when you EXCLUDE all the Public School kids from participating. Think about that for a moment and let that sink into your mind. It sounds unbelievable but were actually all allowing this to happen as we discuss this very important topic for well being of our dear daughters.

I will add lastly that if the DA goes back to school year age and allow HS Soccer too their business model is toast. So I think all we need is one brave family and dd to challenge this stupid, unenforceable rule in the first place. Any volunteers? Then, we need to challenge the birth year rule. This too was done in the dark of night, trust me!! I know for a fact many top docs (the good ones) begged the GDA not to change to birth year. All the good ones were concerned with the social damage this would cause and pressure to pick one or another, either or, instead of........Both and.......... Then they begged the DA, the good ones, not to forbid children to participate for their local high school soccer teams. These three rules need to be challenged, like right now. Hit the Pause button and at least try and have a quick civil discussion or debate on whats best for the children for 2020-2021 season. If you don;t, they will tell you want to do. DA and ECNL as of right now are in a dog fight. The truth lies in the middle. I like the ECNL structure but would like a discussion on the all the travel and maybe lighten that up a little or be ok with some type of hybrid and or part time model. This is a good start to important topic that I obviously have time to help with. PTA and now the PPA, Parent and Players Association


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## Giesbock (Feb 26, 2020)

Best and most qualified coaches work with 4 - 8 year olds.  Teach the fundamentals with care. 

Repeat until young brains, nervous systems and muscles are all hardwired. 2 years?

Small sided scrimmages with one coach on each side gently guiding positioning, directing flow and teaching.  Crossing end line after x # touches = goal.  No keeper.  They should be field players first. Later if someone really only wants to be in goal, they go for specific teaching in front of a Pug with Coach rolling the ball to them and adjusting position, hands, trailing leg knee bent to close the gap (no nutmegs!) 2 years?

Gradual progression to new skills- 1000 juggles. Long balls.Re-direct. Passing. Left foot only days. Right foot only days. Volley  between players 100+ times. Defensive stance, speed and agility drills.

Reshuffle the deck based on skills acquisition and athletic ability So kids are mixing with similar level. 

Now kids are about 10 or 12 and some dropping out or choosing other sports.

The rest continue training and learning new skills. Probably work out at home every day outside their team practices.

they join clubs, get on with their game best they can depending on financial resources, proximity to fields, travel time, etc. Going to tryouts, ID sessions, meeting coaches, growing into ballers.

Oh, wait...none of this is remotely possible because most coaches willing to work with youngest players are volunteer moms and dads with a kid on the team.  Parents want to scream from the sideline at their star player to go to goal.  Teams want cool uniforms and names, banners for away games, matching hair ribbons (ok girls only).


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## LMULions (Feb 26, 2020)

1. Regardless of whether you think the DA no-HS rule makes sense, and there is a case to make for prohibiting it, APPLY IT CONSISTENTLY ACROSS THE BOARD - no waivers for private school kids.

2. Accept that travel is required for DA - knowing that California is unique and you can find good competition without travel, part of the DA experience is to travel and play teams from other parts of the country.  Too much complaining from California about travel - don't sign-up for DA if you don't want to travel for soccer.

3. Require that all Clubs post complete list of fees and costs, for all teams and levels of play. Governing authorities make absolutely certain they have all of our waivers complete before the season starts, treat the Clubs/teams the same, making them submit a list of all fees/costs prior to start of season. Maintain that information at a single location, allowing the parents to make an informed decision - the market will then determine what is/isn't worth the cost.


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## Soccerhelper (Feb 26, 2020)

LMULions said:


> 1. Regardless of whether you think the DA no-HS rule makes sense, and there is a case to make for prohibiting it, APPLY IT CONSISTENTLY ACROSS THE BOARD - no waivers for private school kids.
> 
> 2. Accept that travel is required for DA - knowing that California is unique and you can find good competition without travel, part of the DA experience is to travel and play teams from other parts of the country.  Too much complaining from California about travel - don't sign-up for DA if you don't want to travel for soccer.
> 
> 3. Require that all Clubs post complete list of fees and costs, for all teams and levels of play. Governing authorities make absolutely certain they have all of our waivers complete before the season starts, treat the Clubs/teams the same, making them submit a list of all fees/costs prior to start of season. Maintain that information at a single location, allowing the parents to make an informed decision - the market will then determine what is/isn't worth the cost.


Great ideas


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## timbuck (Feb 26, 2020)

I think I’d encourage my kids to play tennis. And basketball.


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## Soccerhelper (Feb 26, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I think I’d encourage my kids to play tennis. And basketball.


I'm trying to save soccer one last time but I'm about to tell everyone to stay the hell away if this can;t get fixed and I mean that.  This is so much over kill on these poor girls.  99% of them will never set foot on foreign soil to represent the United States best of the best female players for their respective age groups.  Yet they have a league that makes the 99% support the 1%.  Is that right or am I wrong?  Plus pay $10,000+ a year.  Wow!!!


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## Woobie06 (Feb 26, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> I'm trying to save soccer one last time but I'm about to tell everyone to stay the hell away if this can;t get fixed and I mean that.  This is so much over kill on these poor girls.  99% of them will never set foot on foreign soil to represent the United States best of the best female players for their respective age groups.  Yet they have a league that makes the 99% support the 1%.  Is that right or am I wrong?  Plus pay $10,000+ a year.  Wow!!!


True that 99% Plus will never represent the US.  It’s the same in Gymnastics....plus Basketball, Football, and Baseball players playing at high youth and high school levels making it to the pro leagues.  Do you know anyone in Cheer? Months of training, and trips across the US for a single 3 minute routine.  Talk about crazy and expensive....scholarships for cheer athletes as well.  Soccer is not the only sport set-up like this - Pay-for-Play and $$$.  We know people that have moved to put their kids in better districts for High School Football, etc.  There are some High School Programs that have better pathways to college football.

There is never going to be a one size-fits-all solution.  Some people like DA, or ECNL, or CSL/SCDSL, etc., some people don’t.  There is good and bad about all of them.  The cool thing about soccer is that there is a club out there for just about every level of play.  Pay as much or as less as you want.  Play in the circuit and level you are comfortable in.  The pay for play model is not going anywhere anytime soon.

It’s pretty clear what the rules of the game are and it’s kind of like that in the real world as well - Athlete Recruitment and College Graduates....Lots of recruitment from Facebook and Google at Stanford, and iBanks going to the Ivy League. More recruiting from those universities for those jobs than Northwest Oklahoma State (born in OK BTW). You can get those jobs other ways as well, but certain University’s make it a little easier to get in the door.  Same with this model.

The system is set-up/designed to funnel college coaches to the DA/ECNL events. There are non DA/ECNL Showcases as well that a ton of coaches attend. If that’s what you want, if that’s your goal than I would suggest getting your player in one of those programs, or at a non-DA/ECNL club that participates in those events. I’m not saying it is right, just saying that’s what it is. Not a single person on this board will change it.

I believe 100% that not all the best players are  in DA or ECNL and that there are quality players in all the leagues out there, HS, etc.  I also believe there is a barrier to entry for many as well whether it is Geography, Financial, etc.

The reality is if a college coach can “shop” at a few showcase events for all the ingredients they need for their team, why would they go anywhere else.  Why waste the money? I’ll go to PHX, FL, NC, etc. to look at 100’s of players across multiple age groups, recruiting classes, etc., versus one-off trips to see smaller pools of kids in other geographies.  Chances are a coach can find a kid that is equally as good in the showcase without having to spend additional $$$ on the travel (even though that same quality of player is available someplace else).  People do the same thing in their personal life, they will do what is convenient/easy.

Is it fair...no.  Life is not fair.  I’ve accepted that this is the model, so we are going to make sure we understand the rules of the game, play by them, and move on.  The rules are pretty clear and out in the open, not saying they are the right rules, but they are the rules.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Feb 26, 2020)

Make it free.

Problem solved


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## maestroFRSM (Feb 26, 2020)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Make it free.
> 
> Problem solved


Vote for Bernie ... Soccer for All!  Paid for by taxing the hell out of these billionaires at these large mega clubs with their European influences who are ruining our children's youth with their fairytales of grandeur #berniearmy


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## Dof3 (Feb 26, 2020)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Make it free.
> 
> Problem solved


Thanks, Bernie.  All those coaches have to buy groceries, too.


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## Grace T. (Feb 26, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Best and most qualified coaches work with 4 - 8 year olds.  Teach the fundamentals with care.
> 
> Repeat until young brains, nervous systems and muscles are all hardwired. 2 years?
> 
> ...


The best coaches don’t work for (and clubs done have club teams for) the youngest because it’s not cost efficient. If you are doing 5v5 there isnt enough fees from that roster without dramatically raising rates.  And because they will gradually consolidate to 11v11 rosters eventually most of those teams disappear and the coach finds himself without a team. So what you are left with is volunteers, but the volunteer gap is closing as more and more parents have a soccer background. won’t be as much of an issue even 10 years from now

the issue with young goalkeepers is that coaches are demanding they do certain things to produce winning results. But those things like diving, 1v1, and cross defense carry a risk of injury unless trained. So if coaches expect the keeper to dive you have to train them. Otherwise the expectation for an under10 goalkeeper should be only collecting loose balls and stopping shots aimed directly at them (they are essentially shooting manequins).

my opinionthat goes against the cw is that a goalkeepers footwork is 1) not as important as people make out and 2) unique. It’s important for a gk to properly receive the ball and execute a back pass with both feet.  But it’s not as intense as the skills required of say a 10. Moreover, the technique is different with a focus on longer passes, goalkicks and punts than short passes in traffic.  I’m not sure I really agree with the soccer player first philosophy...more like soccer player too.


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## Grace T. (Feb 26, 2020)

maestroFRSM said:


> Vote for Bernie ... Soccer for All!  Paid for by taxing the hell out of these billionaires at these large mega clubs with their European influences who are ruining our children's youth with their fairytales of grandeur #berniearmy


We won’t need club soccer. If you haven’t heard college will be free for anyone who wants to go.


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## dad4 (Feb 26, 2020)

The proposal I like is to divide the country into about 10 regions; the top ten teams in each year make an elite division for that region.   Promote and relegate to keep the top 10 current.

Do that, and most of the top 500 players nationally will be on one of those 100 elite teams.    Very few will have long distance travel.  

Some strong SoCal teams will miss the cut.  (Not a problem.  They're in Socal.  They will find good competition.)  Every other strong team nationally would end up in their elite division.

If we had that, we could get rid of ECNL, DA, Super Y, and the rest of it.


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## dad4 (Feb 26, 2020)

ECNL is trying a merit based approach to promotion and relegation on the boys side in NorCal.









						ECNL Boys to launch Northern Cal Conference for 2020-2021 season - SoccerWire
					

The ECNL Boys has announced the launch of a new Northern Cal Conference for the 2020-2021 season with a total of 10 participating clubs.




					www.soccerwire.com
				




The idea is to slowly promote and relegate clubs, but not teams.  I think this means a team could go undefeated and still get relegated- because the club's other years did poorly.  Hope they have something in the fine print to prevent this.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Feb 26, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> Thanks, Bernie.  All those coaches have to buy groceries, too.


You're right. Messi, Neymar, Sancho, Rooney, Henry's parents were all shelling out $3k a year to cover the cost of the local coaches groceries. Win -win. They all became great and the local coaches all feasted on pigeon and truffles.


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## timbuck (Feb 26, 2020)

Think about this.  Is having all of the best youth players from an area consolidated onto 1 or 2 teams a good thing?

This is a tweet from Carli Lloyd the other day:
"At one point national team had Heather O’Reilly, Tobin Heath, Yael Averbuch, Christie Rampone and myself all from NJ. We all played on separate club teams growing up. Learned 2 carry our teams on our backs. Now a days all of us would be on the same club. #recruitment "
See Tweet Here


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## dad4 (Feb 26, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Think about this.  Is having all of the best youth players from an area consolidated onto 1 or 2 teams a good thing?
> 
> This is a tweet from Carli Lloyd the other day:
> "At one point national team had Heather O’Reilly, Tobin Heath, Yael Averbuch, Christie Rampone and myself all from NJ. We all played on separate club teams growing up. Learned 2 carry our teams on our backs. Now a days all of us would be on the same club. #recruitment "
> See Tweet Here


If you don't consolidate, the top kids will play up 2 or 3 years.  Many will get hurt.  

I know playing up worked out fine for Horan, but how many kids like her quit soccer after a bad collision with someone 3 years older and 40 pounds heavier?


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## jpeter (Feb 26, 2020)

Too late to put the genie back in the bottle but change is needed.

Youth sports has turned into Big Business, a booming $20 billion business in the USA.

People feel like  youth sports in America is either booming or suffering, depending on your *socioeconomic* status among other things






The $$billions$$ of dollars being poured into youth sports sounds like good business, but most of this money is centered on kids from parents with disposable income to spend. Kids from low-income families and underrepresented groups are not seeing the benefits.

Some of methods & legalese used to enable this is the "non-profit" status, shell companies, holding companies, subsidiaries and the like. US soccer for one has large legal "fund/team in the mist of a big lawsuit by the US women over inclusion & equal pay.

Tax payers are footing some of the bill for youth ports indirectly, not many $20$ billion dollar businesses get anyway with tax avoidance unless your Apple or amz and setup the shell companies like some youth sports organizations have attempted to copied. If things don't change $$$ is still going to the motivating factor for youth sports.

The cost for parents is steep. At the high end, families can spend more than 10% of their income on registration fees, travel, camps and equipment. We know some volleyball and hockey families that spent $20,000 one year on on there club teams including plenty on travel, gas: up to four nights a week , not getting home until very late, etc. Youth sports has "taken over everything" in some families which is nuts"

So what can be done now?
First we need to "open" up soccer to everyone so they feel included not just ones from certain *socioeconomic* classes.

How can that be accomplished?
First of all need to admit that youth learns through playing and they need to be taught in a way they understand. In the US that means also teaching courses in Spanish.
UScoccer has recently taken some baby steps in that direction with there "grassroots" program
But clubs need to implement these Grassroots programs and change to "Play-Practice-Play training sessions". Young kids don't want to train for 1 hour, do a bunch of drills and get a "scrimmage" for 15 mins at the end. As of right now this is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Getting back to the economic factors, Bob Bradley has some great insight recently:
Too many feel like there are not part of the game,l we must work harder, have to change and give more opportunity to more people.
Training compensation, solidarity payments, and  Promotion and Relegation is sorely need.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232516236413669376
Yeah heard it before, wont work, not practical for youth, BS I say.

Open up soccer to everyone, forget closed leagues, clubs, tournaments, and the like.  Forget about expensive travel for 90% of all the players.  Have local, Regional, area competition and save the travel for those special times where teams have earned that right to keep playing on like high school does for example.

Community-based teams have given  way to a more mercenary approach, it’s worth asking what’s lost in the process?  A growing body of research shows that intense early specialization in a single sport increases the risk of injury, burnout and depression. Fees and travel costs are pricing out lower-income families. Some kids who don’t show talent at a young age are discouraged from ever participating in organized sports. Those who do often chase scholarships they have a minuscule chance of earning.

Time to take back youth sports from big business interests & these organizations that demand families spend all day for a single game out in the sticks so they can chase some trophy that sits collectioning dust somewhere.

I'm sure somebody is going to debate or quote what I posted, and say this or that so go ahead but please offer alternatives. If you have better ideas, methods, plans feel free to contribute something positive that will help everybody out rather than sticking with the status quo, trying to justify what the establishment is already doing, patting them on the back. We don't need the 3 blind mice routine.


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## pokergod (Feb 26, 2020)

The Ghost of Johan Cruyff said:


> You ever play Madden when the computer decides there is no way you are going to win the game? Fumbles, interceptions, injuries, etc. If you were anything like me when I was a kid the only solution on a guaranteed L was to hit the reset button.
> 
> Have we reached that point with youth soccer? Does anyone else feel like it has become so complex with so many super, duper, mega elite leagues and so much bad blood between people who support themselves by finding new ways to shake down parents that we should just hit the reset button?
> 
> ...


1.  Get rid of DA.  Huge expensive system in place that kills high school for 25 spots is idiotic.
2.  No tryouts until after season.
3.  Get rid of non profit status for these clubs or audit the hell out of them.  End the hypocritical aspects.
4.  Whole division of CSL and SCDL was over DA.  Now that DA ended, put one system with flights 1,2,3.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Feb 26, 2020)

pokergod said:


> 1.  Get rid of DA.  Huge expensive system in place that kills high school for 25 spots is idiotic.
> 2.  No tryouts until after season.
> 3.  Get rid of non profit status for these clubs or audit the hell out of them.  End the hypocritical aspects.
> 4.  Whole division of CSL and SCDL was over DA.  Now that DA ended, put one system with flights 1,2,3.


1. Agree
2. Agree
3. This would only raise the fees?
4. Agree


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## Simisoccerfan (Feb 26, 2020)

The two things I would change are:

Parent's should listen to their kids about what they want from playing soccer not enforce their own desires upon their kids.
Parent's should have a realistic viewpoint of their kids ability and put them into the appropriate level of play.
In today's soccer landscape there are many choices for parents.   I think this is a very good thing.   The challenge is understanding the two items above so you can help them navigate the process.  If your kids just wants to have fun, play rec ball.  As they get older if the social aspect is important to them play HS ball.   If they are doing well in rec and *THEY *want more competition try club.  If they are excelling at club and want more try for Tier 1 or Gold/Premier.   For the few that are truly dedicated and want to play college ball or even pro try the DA or ECNL.   It is very important that your kid plays at the right level based on what *THEY* are trying to achieve.   If your kid plays regular club and is killing it at HS don't expect them to be recruited.   They need to be playing with stronger talent to have a better chance to be evaluated correctly.   Conversing don't have them play ECNL or DA if they don't want to play in college and don't have the singular focus or skill needed to be successful at that level.   

I get sick and tired of parent's complaining about DA or other leagues.  Step up and make the right choices that work for your kid based on their desires and skill level.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Feb 26, 2020)

US population  growth is down to 1.7 per couple.   In 10 years this will all fix itself.   It’s recession time for youth sports. Consolidation will happen.  Esports in college will want a piece of that scholarship money.  Fewer colleges will be around because many are going bankrupt.     

It’s all good!   Armageddon is coming.  Lol.


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## DJB (Feb 26, 2020)

How do the best European and South American countries do it?


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## Grace T. (Feb 26, 2020)

DJB said:


> How do the best European and South American countries do it?


In Europe (except England, which has somewhat of a hybrid system), the way they do it is academy (usually fully funded) for those on a future pro track, and tiered rec for everyone else.  Soccer isn't a path to college admissions because college admissions are pretty much determined only on the basis of test scores (and if you are a cynic, political connections).  The academy track is ruthless, with many players washing out and then finding they are off the academic, arts or trade tracks once they've gone down the sports tracks.  Have been watching some U11/U12 games on youtube...very different than our tier 1s...goalkeepers even that age execute high level IV moves such as tipping over bar, very possession oriented (not a whole lot of run and shoot), lots of tall players for their age.


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## pokergod (Feb 26, 2020)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> 1. Agree
> 2. Agree
> 3. This would only raise the fees?
> 4. Agree


Good question.  Not sure.  But I think the non profit status is being abused.  Why do clubs have $1,000,000 in the bank and raising fees?


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## pokergod (Feb 26, 2020)

DJB said:


> How do the best European and South American countries do it?


Kids don't play fortnight or do tik tok all day.  Play soccer before school, during school and after school.  Dribble ball between classes.


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## Grace T. (Feb 26, 2020)

pokergod said:


> Kids don't play fortnight or do tik tok all day.  Play soccer before school, during school and after school.  Dribble ball between classes.


Only if they are academy.  Then even the video games at school available are fifa. Though they do get the summer season off (continentals think we are idiots for playing in the summer heat).  

My sons little English pen pal youtubes, does skiing, studies for his standardized tests, just like an American tiered club player might.


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## mirage (Feb 26, 2020)

The Ghost of Johan Cruyff said:


> ........What would you do if you could start soccer over????


To do a reset, first we need to identify the reason for all of current state of fair to exists.
A) Club soccer caters to parents that wanted higher competition for their players than AYSO
B) DA/ECNL exists for identifying national team player pool
C) Rec leagues provides community based constructive youth sportsmanship development for those participate

So, lets agree on the fact that over 90% of club players are just okay.  Some better than others but not truly national team or professional caliber, including those on DA roster for the most part.  Also, the same population of players/parents are seeking college student athlete opportunity.  Unfortunately, only handful of kids from top tier teams  make it to the college level.  All the others stop playing at that point or play college club or intermural soccer.

When a kid is 10 yrs old, there are many, many options of outcome possible.  As the kid ages, options narrow, based on his/her playing abilities, skills and genetic lottery.  By the time the kid is on the other side of puberty, options have narrowed to a few.  Many kids have stopped playing by this time and found other interests or simply that life happens to them.  Parents adjust to each situation and make best of it.

Now think about what  club soccer has done through the years?  Has facilitated keeping the options open and engaged the kids through adult supervised, organized team sports that cost thousands.  Many parents put the kids in club soccer/sports just to keep them busy and out of trouble.  Along the way, they hope that the kid picks up teamwork ethics and sportsmanship to be a successful adult.

All the clubs know this and they use soccer as a mean to generate revenue for their own organizations.  Its a service you are buying.  It may feel like its sports that you are participating and paying fees for but in reality, you are paying for the use of the field, lights, coaches salary, administrative costs of the club and their management.  The difference is that at AYSO, most of the administrative and management positions are volunteers and the cities provide heavily discounted fee structure of field and lights use for their own citizens.

All the "passion" generated around kids sports by parents/adults are because we like to believe our own kids are the top 10% or better, and that somehow its all going to workout so that the kid becomes a national team or professional player.  Or at a minimum, scholarship earning college student.  Because of this belief, the parents pay and pay and pay to clubs, trainers, and alike.  

If we could reinvent youth soccer, my view would look something like:

1) Take away all of "not for profit" designation from all clubs. Its business with lots of retained earnings.
2) Make USSF not operate their own league (DA) which enables clubs to be the gate keepers that ultimately is a conflict of interest
3) Have regional national team pool tryouts for USSF throughout the country for ID purposes (they used to have this until DA started at younger ages). Players can come from anywhere and not have to be on a DA club.
4) Expand and foster rec league (AYSO) to have a larger presence in youth soccer and let clubs charge as private services (sort of like public schools and private school).  The 90% of the players will have great experiences and probably love the game more.
5) Let college scouting happen like all other sports - through high schools and showcases, and not just at DA playoffs/showcase

One of my buddy's kid is on Team USA for baseball and is being recruited by multiple MLB teams.  He has committed to D1 college and has a choice to make if he is drafted this year.  The whisper is that the kid is 2nd~3rd rounder today. The parents did not do anything extraordinary for the kid.  Just a talented kid.  He played travel ball and competed in AAU tournaments throughout his youth.  The baseball scouting network must be more effective at the grassroots level than soccer so:

6) Establish network of scouts that do not coach for any club but are affiliated to USSF and/or MLS organizations throughout the country and have them attend both AYSO and high school games.  Obviously, they would be there for the regional national team pool ID events.

Some of you know this from my other posts.  I'll be done with club soccer in couple of months as our youngest graduates from HS and will be off to college.  After 15 years in club soccer (and several years in travel ball clubs), between two kids, I have seen many crazy things that club soccer scene goes through.  My older kid played DA, CSL Premier, Gold, SE,  SCDSL Flight 1, NPL and currently plays in college.  My younger played SCDSL Flight 3, 2, 1, NPL.  Both kids played AYSO initially and so I have a pretty good sense of what each level is like and how parents behaves at those levels.  My sense of reboot is based on my experience....was lot longer than I intended, sorry about that!


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## mirage (Feb 26, 2020)

pokergod said:


> Kids don't play fortnight or do tik tok all day.  Play soccer before school, during school and after school.  Dribble ball between classes.


My older kid did that through high school.  He'a an American but is half Italian so maybe that was why


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## Soccerhelper (Feb 26, 2020)

I'm speaking for making the WNT teams only
1. No GDA league or only have one at Silver lakes.  Let the top 24 players from SoCal in each group train there 10 months year, 4 days week.
2  Head coach cannot be a part of a club or work in a club for five years after of being employed by Federation.
3. Allow every girl or boy from any city, league, town, race, social, economical background and at least have a chance to be properly scouted.
4. Give a bonus to a scout like the guy who found Messi some reward money for finding the rare player(s) that I believe exist somewhere in America but can;t get a chance because of social struggles and doors locked because DA says so
5.  No parents with kids playing in the club sitting on boards and making big decisions that effect everyone in SoCal

Remember when American Idol started.  My family would watch this show and laugh at the parent who thought their kid could sing.  Its what made the show fun to watch for me.  Then we all loved it when some unknown person out of nowhere wins and become a star like Kelly to name one of the winners.  I see soccer in SoCal like American Idol.  Everyone thinks their kid can play "soccer" like Kelly can sing or with some development or singing lessons they could one day sing.  I'm sorry everyone, you can;t play very well compared to being America's best.  Can imagine all these bad singers leaving all in huff and a puff because some judge told them their kid can;t sing very well and then they go to, "Barrys (Manilow) Singing Academy" and Barry charges you $4,000 a year to develop your voice  so you could sing and then go try again with the judges like some do.  Again, I'm talking about the bad singers paying Barry $4K, not the one's that had a tough day at tryouts but has some potential.  Now we have an American Idol soccer league for those who can;t sing very well. I'm not saying you can;t sing in the shower or out at the park, but to say your that close to the YNT with a little more development is why were in this mess.  ECNL isn't the problem.  Plus, I'm not using the word bad meaning your kid is no good so why even play soccer for fun. No, I'm only saying the player pool in the DA has too many ok soccer players and can sing in the shower or the park walking but not even good enough to sing at a bar or at third street promenaded street singing.


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## Woobie06 (Feb 26, 2020)

Many of the solutions offered involve money...where does it come from if not pay for play?  The cheese is different, different goals here than in other places due to our university system.

$$$$….Coaching, Scouts, Facilities, Fully Funded....all this stuff...who pays?  Where does it come from?  For Int'l The clubs pay - The end result for int'l geographies for their academy's are the pro team - building the pro club, or developing and selling talent to build the top team...That's the goal, why they invest in the players, not to be good citizens or create "fair" playing opportunities for kids.  To build their team.

Here the parent or the club pays to either build the club, win, recruit and provide the opportunity to get kids in front of the right coaches for college to get them a scholarship, or get into a school they could not otherwise get into.  That's the cycle.

The end result (for the vast majority - not the WMT/MNT/Pro Unicorns) in the US is college.  The result in the US is an opportunity at an education, a professional career, entrepreneurship, etc..  In some of the int'l pro academies, a player that washes out, possibly lacks education due to the time investment in soccer/futbol, what do they do?  Do they go to school?  Do they come to the US and coach? 

Somebody always pays...not too many free lunches out there.  Not a whole lot of real money in soccer in the US.  Maybe for a few.  For almost all it should be a hobby or tool to get where you want to go, stay healthy, learn teamwork, commitment, and accountability.  I don't look at soccer as destination for the vast majority of kids.


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## Simisoccerfan (Feb 26, 2020)

mirage said:


> So, lets agree on the fact that over 90% of club players are just okay. Some better than others but not truly national team or professional caliber, including those on DA roster for the most part. Also, the same population of players/parents are seeking college student athlete opportunity. Unfortunately, only handful of kids from top tier teams make it to the college level. All the others stop playing at that point or play college club or intermural soccer.


I disagree.  The majority of girls playing DA/ECNL during their last year move on to college ball.  I say the primary mission of both DA/ECNL is developing players for college regardless of the belief that the focus of DA is the National Team.   For example my dd's DA team during the last year had 13 seniors and 5 juniors.   11 of the seniors played D1 last year and the other two played D2.   4 of the Juniors are signed D1 and the other Junior will play NAIA.  All 18 girls got scholarships.  Our second team (at that time in DPL) had one girl go D1 and at least 5 other girls go D2 or D3.   I don't believe these stats are unique to our club.  In fact, I think the vast majority of DA/ECNL players go on to play at college and earn scholarships.   It is not too hard to research DA and ECNL commits to see the great success both leagues have in placing players at the next level.

If the skill and desire to play college ball exists, get your kid in the DA or ECNL.


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## MWN (Feb 26, 2020)

A quick reminder that everything evolves and we can't fit a round peg into a square hole.

The DA was deemed necessary because the MLS and USL were not ready to support youth academies over a decade ago.  The DA (boys) served its purpose and is now evolving into a 2 Tiered system with the MLS and a handful of academies on tier 1 and tier 2 for the others.  The USL is now starting its own system.  But please don't make the DA into something it is not.  The DA is just a league, the teams are all funded by the clubs.  Without the DA we just change the league ... the money and cost remain relatively the same.

Coast Soccer in SoCal used to be the only legitimate league.  Gary ran it with an iron fist.  The big clubs wanted a softer fist, Gary said no ... a new league called SCDSL was born.  Evolution.

The Girls DA exists in response to claims of discrimination.  The ECNL was doing a fine job, but the lack of a Girls DA was a vulnerability to an equality defense ... US Soccer evolved (or devolved) and created a Girls DA to eliminate the lack of equality claim.  It exists because that is what US Soccer's members (namely the players) wanted.

HS Soccer has not been relevant because soccer at the collegiate level because it IS NOT a money sport.  There are only 2 money sports: Football and Basketball.  Therefore, there are only two groups that have the funds to send scouts across states/regions to visit individual games played by individual recruits.  Soccer will never evolve into a collegiate money sport because the nature of the game internationally requires "athletes" to forego putting education first.  The evolution here is to simply understand that this fish will never fly.  HS Soccer is for fun, nothing more.

Pay-To-Play is evolving too.  With the MLS's recent announcement that it will support Training and Solidarity Payments, the MLS clubs now have an incentive.  Next evolution is to give the USL and DA academies an opportunity to be rewarded for investing in youth players.


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## sdb (Feb 26, 2020)

One thing I've wondered is how you get buyer power back to the customers? Clubs have fragmented the market and created competition amongst the customers as opposed to the customers having power and creating competition among the clubs. There should be a parent managed tryout / combine and the clubs should have to pay for the right to watch and sign the players.


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## Soccerhelper (Feb 26, 2020)




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## Soccerhelper (Feb 26, 2020)

sdb said:


> One thing I've wondered is how you get buyer power back to the customers? Clubs have fragmented the market and created competition amongst the customers as opposed to the customers having power and creating competition among the clubs. There should be a parent managed tryout / combine and the clubs should have to pay for the right to watch and sign the players.


Someone had a plan to get us to attack each other and make the parents look like emotional nut cases like me.  Gun Guy actually woke us all up.


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## watfly (Feb 26, 2020)

sdb said:


> One thing I've wondered is how you get buyer power back to the customers?


I believe that's the only thing that will fundamentally change youth soccer.  While training and solidarity payments may help, your never going to eliminate the issues associated with pay to play for the majority of youth soccer.  Clubs and coaches don't believe they're in the customer service business.  To them the parents are a problem to be ignored, not a customer to be satisfied.  Their are definitely problem parents, but most parents just want some basic level of communication and consideration.  Maybe the airlines treat their customers the worse, but pay-to-pay soccer comes pretty close.

Unfortunately the power dynamic is not likely to change.  Parents are too afraid to speak up about poor coaching, poor training, poor development and bad behavior for fear of how it will impact their child's standing with the club and/or the "it" team.


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## Stephen A smith (Feb 26, 2020)

DJB said:


> How do the best European and South American countries do it?


Those kids come up on a different mentality,  they have nothing.  They don't come up in the pay to play system. Here are some things that can be done.









						It's Broke, So Let's Fix It:A 5-Point Blueprint to Fix American Soccer
					

We spoke with U.S. soccer experts from various parts of the industry to talk about the current state of affairs and what can be done to foster a healthier, more fruitful ecosystem.




					www.urbansoccerpark.com


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## blam (Feb 26, 2020)

If this were 100m sprint, then picking the best is easy. You just rank the runners from fastest to slowest and pick the top 3. It is easy to measure who is fast.

How do you measure if a player is good at soccer?


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## Grace T. (Feb 26, 2020)

watfly said:


> Unfortunately the power dynamic is not likely to change.  Parents are too afraid to speak up about poor coaching, poor training, poor development and bad behavior for fear of how it will impact their child's standing with the club and/or the "it" team.


I'm not sure it's that the top teams parents are too afraid to speak up.  It's more that parents care about the winning results.  If the team isn't winning the coach will hear it.  If the team is winning, the parents are getting what they want.

It causes coaches to adopt a ruthless strategy (with tactics, recruitment, cutting, many times at the expense of development) to get those advancements.  My son's last team was very much a winning is the important thing...I'm very much an advocate for at the younger ages development first....his former team went very far in State Cup but there are only 6-7 of the original players left.  And despite the wining is important approach, they've managed to recruit some great talent and those that remain are happy with the results.  Indeed, the club (despite purporting to place development in front of winning) has been very vocal in its marketing on the ability of teams to punch over their weight.



blam said:


> If this were 100m sprint, then picking the best is easy. You just rank the runners from fastest to slowest and pick the top 3. It is easy to measure who is fast.
> 
> How do you measure if a player is good at soccer?


The approach of the European academies at the younger ages seem to be to latch onto the early developers....older, taller, more mature.  Didn't used to be that way but the era of Messi and his HGH shots is rapidly coming to a close.


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## Soccerhelper (Feb 26, 2020)

Stephen A smith said:


> Those kids come up on a different mentality,  they have nothing.  They don't come up in the pay to play system. Here are some things that can be done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was waiting for you @Stephen A smith 
“Just L.A. and Orange County are almost as big as a country like Belgium, which is number one ranked in the world with FIFA."

“The example I just gave for Belgium is the same in Holland or France or Spain or Germany,” said Van der Most. “Pretty much every neighborhood has a club and every neighborhood has in addition to youth soccer, also adult soccer. Players when you’re 16, 17, and you’re really good, you play with and against adults. It’s all within your own area.”

Contrast that to the U.S. where, “literally you spend thousands of dollars on going down and playing a team that’s a two-hour drive away,” he added, referring to a recent trip to Florida where his Galaxy team played a squad from San Diego.

“In the U.S. it’s the opposite of other countries. It’s funded bottom up. So the worst teams are funding the club,” said Chase. 

So much more insight.  Hello everyone.  I was told that that the DA for girls would be 100% paid for all the clubs who got the DA.  I swear   That ain;t happening, no way...


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## jpeter (Feb 26, 2020)

Stephen A smith said:


> Those kids come up on a different mentality,  they have nothing.  They don't come up in the pay to play system. Here are some things that can be done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is a excellent piece of writing.  

Agree 100% as futstal as the foundation for younger players.


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## Soccerhelper (Feb 26, 2020)

I played some hoops in HS and thought I was all that.  No shot clock or 3 pt line.  I was a true point guard who never shot unless I was on a fast break from one of my steals and shooting a pull up free throw line on a 3 on 2 fast break or a layup.  No shooting from me.  Anyway, I got married and got better at hoops too.  I went to the Yorba Linda Rec Center and sign me and my buddies for top level A ball.  The rec leader was smart.  He said, "easy fella, you can't just go to the A league.  You need to show us through winning each level.  They had A, B, C and D.  Bring your squad next week for and will see where your team fits, ok coach?  I said ok.  After are ass kicking the next week, we were in the C league and lost in the finals instead of getting killed by 40 and pissing off the top players.  I was put in my place and it worked itself all out and I still got to play basketball at 32 years old after ACL


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## jpeter (Feb 26, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> I played some hoops in HS and thought I was all that.  No shot clock or 3 pt line.  I was a true point guard who never shot unless I was on a fast break from one of my steals and shooting a pull up free throw line on a 3 on 2 fast break or a layup.  No shooting from me.  Anyway, I got married and got better at hoops too.  I went to the Yorba Linda Rec Center and sign me and my buddies for top level A ball.  The rec leader was smart.  He said, "easy fella, you can't just go to the A league.  You need to show us through winning each level.  They had A, B, C and D.  He bring your squad next week for to see where your team fits, ok coach?  I said ok.  After are ass kicking the next week, we were in the C league and lost in the finals instead of getting killed by 40 and pissing off the top players.  I was put in my place and it worked itself all out and I still got to play basketball at 32 years old after ACL


I learned the hard way not to gamble too much on the golf course.   My game hasn't keep up w/ my associates or improved much with time, still Duffing along but enjoy it anyway.


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## maestroFRSM (Feb 26, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I'm not sure it's that the top teams parents are too afraid to speak up.  It's more that parents care about the winning results.  If the team isn't winning the coach will hear it.  If the team is winning, the parents are getting what they want.
> 
> It causes coaches to adopt a ruthless strategy (with tactics, recruitment, cutting, many times at the expense of development) to get those advancements.  My son's last team was very much a winning is the important thing...I'm very much an advocate for at the younger ages development first....his former team went very far in State Cup but there are only 6-7 of the original players left.  And despite the wining is important approach, they've managed to recruit some great talent and those that remain are happy with the results.  Indeed, the club (despite purporting to place development in front of winning) has been very vocal in its marketing on the ability of teams to punch over their weight.
> 
> ...


Very nice points. Regarding youngers, Parents pay big $, expect to win, development suffers, kids don’t learn, coaches don’t coach/develop talent but play to win. 
As informed parents, we need to put our money with coaches/clubs where development is paramount. Hard part is finding that, understanding it’s a marathon, not a sprint, and not putting our unrealized athletic goals on our kids. Clubs are at fault, but too many dumb ass parents out there as well.


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## dad4 (Feb 26, 2020)

Many parents can't tell you whether development is happening.  

Or, they have no idea whether their kid will even want to play in 5 years.  Why focus on a 15 year soccer regimen if junior is likely to quit and do something else long before then?

Not bad people.  Just different priorities.


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## maestroFRSM (Feb 27, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Many parents can't tell you whether development is happening.
> 
> Or, they have no idea whether their kid will even want to play in 5 years.  Why focus on a 15 year soccer regimen if junior is likely to quit and do something else long before then?
> 
> Not bad people.  Just different priorities.


Point taken, but in my opinion, most crazy sideline parents who yell at the coach for trying to build from the back, make connecting passes at the risk of a turnover aren't thinking this is junior's last year in soccer and therefore, we must win this league game.  Their projecting their own needs on little one.  Priorities are screwy.  

At a young age, winning shouldn't be the end goal - the process should be, whether you're playing for one year or 15. 

RIP 24:
_"Those time when you get up early... those times when you stay up late... when you're too tired... you don't want to push yourself, but you do it anyway."
"That is actually the dream."_


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## Soccerhelper (Feb 27, 2020)

maestroFRSM said:


> Point taken, but in my opinion, most crazy sideline parents who yell at the coach for trying to build from the back, make connecting passes at the risk of a turnover aren't thinking this is junior's last year in soccer and therefore, we must win this league game.  Their projecting their own needs on little one.  Priorities are screwy.
> 
> At a young age, winning shouldn't be the end goal - the process should be, whether you're playing for one year or 15.
> 
> ...


What is a good healthy age to start teaching winning?  We do live in America where winning come above all else.  This is our society for the most part. I do think to teach soccer the right way we need futsul early and small sided games.  I think 4th grade is time to start the winning mind set.


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## jpeter (Feb 27, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> What is a good healthy age to start teaching winning?  We do live in America where winning come above all else.  This is our society for the most part. I do think to teach soccer the right way we need futsul early and small sided games.  I think 4th grade is time to start the winning mind set.


My kids starting playing futsal at 6 entered the U9 indoor league at 7 (youngest allowed) and wanted to have there faces on the wall as league champs.   With no coach it was all them, they wanted to win every ball, match, duel, fun to watch but even better for them to see there faces on the wall when they walked in.


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## younothat (Feb 27, 2020)




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## Soccerhelper (Feb 27, 2020)




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## Soccerhelper (Feb 27, 2020)

I can see clearly now everyone, what about you?  Where is the actual top club in the city of Los Angeles located?  Clean up time parents unless you're all ok with the Status Quo and all the Quid Pro Quo going on in youth soccer........

_*Quid pro quo*_ ("something for something" in Latin[2]) is a Latin phrase used in English to mean an exchange of goods or services, in which one transfer is contingent upon the other; "a favor for a favor". Phrases with similar meanings include: "give and take", "tit for tat", "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours", and "one hand washes the other". Other languages use other phrases for the same purpose.

There are many forms of Quid Pro Quo.....


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## carla hinkle (Feb 27, 2020)

I appreciate that the "win at all costs" coach/club mentality may sacrifice development and, in the long term, be detrimental to soccer in the US as a whole. But (at a risk of stating the obvious) it's not easy to focus on development of younger players rather than winning. It's a very fine line to keep players motivated and parents happy if the team is losing all the time. A team that loses most of their games can be a very down atmosphere. Kids lose confidence, parents wonder what the point is, the coach loses motivation, it's just a bad downhill spiral. On the other hand, teams that win all the time may be less incentivized to make any changes or continue improving.

Maybe the optimal set up is a team that wins half their games? And keeps the losses close. And has communication between the coach, players and parents that they are putting in work that will pay off later. But that is very hard to do, requires a talented and motivated coach, appropriate flight/level team placement, patient parents, and kids who understand what the coach is going for. I've had kids on teams like this but it is a special circumstance. I've tried to appreciate those teams in the moment because it doesn't come around all that often.

The thing I find the most frustrating in So Cal youth soccer is the segretated/competing leagues. You are literally preventing teams of similar levels from playing each other and end up with way more travel than should be. Geographically divided leagues I understand -- the San Diego 10 year old shouldn't be driving to OC or LA for games very often. But the leagues should be optimized so teams of similar levels play each other -- from the best teams to the most beginner. The league landscape has fragmented so much I'm not sure how to address that issue.


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## jpeter (Feb 27, 2020)

Jimmy, classic while we're in that genre


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## dad4 (Feb 27, 2020)

I don’t think direct vs possession is the largest problem.  If you are really worried about too much long ball, add a half court rule like futsal or a 3 line rule like indoor soccer.  Either would be a good small change.  

The fracturing of the landscape is a bigger issue.  overlapping leagues at lower levels is annoying but tolerable.  overlapping leagues at the highest level is ridiculous.  time for ECNL and DA to merge, or DA to drop the club link and just do regional all star teams.


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## timbuck (Feb 27, 2020)

If I was king, this is what I'd do:

*So Cal Youth League Set Up*
Leagues should be broken up in the following manner. Forget Coast, SCDSL, Presidio, blah, blah, blah:
1. The Great Park League - All of Orange County plays here
2. The Oceanside/Polo Field League - Anything South of Pendleton plays here
3. The Silverlakes League - Anything east of Anaheim
4. The Anything between Manhattan Beach and Thousand Oaks League - Maybe play in Carson (Dignity Health Sports park) or any other large complexes in LA that clubs use. Could probably break this up into a few leagues based on geography and the mess of traffic in the area. Coastal, Downtown, Pasadena
5. Lancaster and Friends League

Set up 3 flights. A club can have a maximum of 5 teams per age group. And no more than 2 teams per flight.

Start the fall season by playing 4 games in the flight that you think you belong in. Then reshuffle the flights for the next 6 games of the season.  If a team is killing everyone in flight 3 – move them up.  If a team is getting crushed in flight 1, move them down.

Allow teams to play a maximum of 3 tournaments, plus State Cup per 12 months.

Start the season on Labor Day weekend.  End the season the 1st week of December -  Including State Cup for all age groups. (If you keep the 1st rounds local, you could even play weeknight games).  You could even start the season before Labor Day weekend since many schools are starting back in mid-August now.

*Tryouts*
With the above league set up, you can let players take a break for most of December and January.  They can even use this time to work on some soccer skills or recover from injuries, so they can prepare for the tryouts in a few months. 

Tryouts are held in February.  A player can register to tryout for up to 4 teams. They must attend at least 1 tryout with a club in order to receive an offer.  (None of these backroom deals).  All offers must be out by February 28th and accepted by March 5th.  (Kind of the way club volleyball does things today.  But they have a shorter window for accepting offers).  Impose big fines for clubs that violate these rules. Suspend players from tournament play that violate these rules.

*DA/ECNL*
I don’t care which one exists or goes away. But we need 1 top level league. For ease of conversation, let’s say it is DA.  And let’s say there should only be 6 DA Clubs in So Cal.  (2 for LA, 2 in OC and 2 in San Diego)

If your club is going to be DA, then your club is *ONLY* a DA club.  You can have 1 team per age group from U13 and above.  There is no DA 2 or DPL. These clubs cannot have SCDSL/CSL/Presidio/NPL/etc teams.  Players that want to play at the highest levels come to your tryouts.  DA clubs are out scouting young players across the area.  There is not a “we are joining XYZ club at 9 years old because we think it will help us make the DA team in 4 years by spending our money on this club and we think loyalty should be rewarded.”

These 6 Clubs must have:

Quality Fields
A physical facility that includes video review capabilities; athletic trainers for help with injuries; a study lounge for homework; an office for parent and player meetings
At least 3 coaches at all practices and games.  All with at least a recent B license and continuing coach education.
20 player rosters (I may even be ok with 23 players if there are some rules to ensure playing time for field players and keepers).
Can bring in players from outside clubs for tryouts and scrimmages as needed.  If they want to add a player for league games during season, they must cut another player. ("Injured Reserve" would also be an option if a player is expected to be out at least 3 months)
Fully funded for players.  This is funded by US Soccer, national and local sponsorship and a $20 per player fee is tacked on to every player registered with US Soccer (IE- everyone in the US that plays club soccer from to u7 to u19 from signature on up to Gold/Discovery type of play).
Non-DA clubs should network with the DA coaches and try to get players promoted to DA.  DA coaches should hold open training sessions to help Non-DA coaches understand what they are looking for and to help with continued coach education.


*Coaches*
We need more female coaches.  And we need more young coaches.  The sidelines are filled with 40+ year old men who are making a living coaching 4 teams. 

I’ve seen many young female coaches quit because they are just starting out in life after college and quit coaching to get a “Real Job” or to raise a family.  These are skilled players that can be great role models to young players. They have passion for the game and they have a personality that meshes will with young players. 

There has to be a better way to keep more young female coaches involved in the game.  Some type of apprenticeship program that will let them generate a little extra cash while they are working a full time job. 

We need to find a better way to provide coach education/licenses to young coaches.  To a fresh college grad, dropping $500 for a D license is their monthly rent budget or student loan payment.  Forget about the cost of a C or B license for a young coach.  Several thousand for the class and more for travel and expense. 

Some clubs will help cover the costs, but it’s usually on a “you pay for it and we’ll reimburse you once you pass the class.” (Which is okay.  But for a 23 year old to be out that kind of cash for a few months, it’s the difference between eating Top Ramen every night or splurging for grilled chicken and vegetables once in a while). What if you put it on your credit card and then the club folds?  Or they bring in new coaches before you get reimbursed?

I’d say we also need a better way to educate coaches who don’t want to coach 4 teams and make it a full time job.  There’s quite a few out there that coach 1 or 2 teams because they love the game.  But they aren’t willing to spring for a “C” license or higher with the travel to Kansas City 2+ times.  Put the content out there for cheap or free to let everyone learn what those that take the class are learning.  But require in-person attendance if you want the license.


*College Recruiting*
The current club  showcase “pyramid” is designed to make life easier for college coaches to see players.  This doesn’t really exist in the same format for other sports.  Plenty of football and basketball coaches are out on the recruiting trail during their seasons. Talking to coaches. Watching games.  Networking to see what kind of players are hidden gems.

Scrap the current “Showcase” environment.  The Power 5 conferences should all host their own showcase type of tournament over the summer. Players stay in the dorms. It's free to play and free to stay. Invite any college coach that wants to come and watch. Charge coaches a fee to attend to offset what it would cost a team to enter. Get BIG sponsors. Nike, Ford, Gatorade, Bank of America to fund it all. Make it last a week. Teams play 2 games per day and play every other day.
Each conference conducts 2 per summer so you cover the geography of conferences.
Pac 12 Example:  UCLA/USC, ASU and UofA hold 1 showcase for So Cal and the Southwest and rotate every few years. And Stanford, Oregon and Washington hold 1 showcase for the Northwest.

 If parents want to watch, they can pay for their own room and board.


I'd also say that we need to revamp the "rec" soccer world.  Lots of players out there today would be better served in a rec type of set up.  But the coaching is bad. And the dedication of players to attend practices and games is all over the map.  There's got to be something in-between rec and club for the player that likes soccer, is dedicated but isn't trying to be world class.


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## Simisoccerfan (Feb 27, 2020)

timbuck said:


> If I was king, this is what I'd do:
> 
> *So Cal Youth League Set Up*
> Leagues should be broken up in the following manner. Forget Coast, SCDSL, Presidio, blah, blah, blah:
> ...


Interesting plan.  Might work if you live in the OC and plan on playing at Power 5 Conference team.   The drive for us in LA/Ventura to Carson would be a nightmare.   Also there are another 330+ Division 1 teams and plenty more D2, D3, and NAIA schools you are missing in your College Recruiting plan.


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## timbuck (Feb 27, 2020)

Those schools will be invited to the Power 5 showcases. Open to all colleges.
Just like showcases are today.  But it takes Clubs out of organizing and making money from it.  And/or from deciding who gets to play or not.


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## dad4 (Feb 27, 2020)

Why advocate 6 DA in socal?  Lot of free way time if the nearest one isn't near you.  

Figure the travel is a reasonable price to avoid dilution?


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## Soccerhelper (Feb 27, 2020)

I would just have a one big Power 5 college showcase/Tournament for SoCal teams only and few top teams outside who are killing it.  SoCal is like Belgium size wise and player soccer wise so all we need as parents is to negotiate a good deal. The fields all are here too now.  2013 fields sucked so I will give some props to those who built them.  Let's share them too now.  $10 a day to park and I'm sure $15 this coming season is insane too.  My #1 grip is all the travel for these girls.  We need to fix that as well.  We don;t need to travel outside of SoCal.  It;s the truth.  The Best of the Best soccer players are split up into 3 levels imo.  Really really good (Real good all the time-Mike Trout) Real good (has some work to do but has potential-Kuzma) Good player (roll player.  Mickey Hatcher type or a Rambis)  That's it.  Everyone else play local and have specific showcases for D2 and D3 players who have 4.5s as well. So many places to go to school and still play soccer.  That is a very positive in all this.


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## Soccerhelper (Feb 27, 2020)

timbuck said:


> If I was king, this is what I'd do:
> 
> *So Cal Youth League Set Up*
> Leagues should be broken up in the following manner. Forget Coast, SCDSL, Presidio, blah, blah, blah:
> ...


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## Grace T. (Feb 27, 2020)

timbuck said:


> If I was king, this is what I'd do:.....
> 
> 
> 
> I'd also say that we need to revamp the "rec" soccer world.  Lots of players out there today would be better served in a rec type of set up.  But the coaching is bad. And the dedication of players to attend practices and games is all over the map.  There's got to be something in-between rec and club for the player that likes soccer, is dedicated but isn't trying to be world class.


You have my vote.  I think you've hit on a solution to the "flight" problem too.  It's considered too much of a reward or mark of excellence rather than what it's intended to be (which is to avoid having teams blow each other out).

I've told the story before what got my son involved in club ball.  He wanted to keep playing soccer and go out for extras when his U8 AYSO season ended....he wanted to find someone to play with him and practice for Extras tryouts....we asked everyone on the team but no one was interested (they had other sports, Disneyland annual passes, were done with it).  Eventually the coaching problem should resolve itself in rec as we get more volunteer coach parents that play.  But the dedication level and skill level is more of a problem.  AYSO's everyone-plays-together philosophy is what ultimately led to the explosion of club ball, because the superstar wasn't being developed if no one could pass to her, and the handicapped kid wasn't happy if everyone was avoiding passing to him.  In England, everyone plays rec ball except the academy and private development players...rec ball is tiered into various levels based on player (not team) performance.


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## timbuck (Feb 27, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Why advocate 6 DA in socal?  Lot of free way time if the nearest one isn't near you.
> 
> Figure the travel is a reasonable price to avoid dilution?


I think you saying there should be more.  How many more?

DA should be for national team level players.  Do you think there are more than 46 girls (go with a roster of 23) in each age group in OC that have National team potential?


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## dad4 (Feb 27, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I think you saying there should be more.  How many more?
> 
> DA should be for national team level players.  Do you think there are more than 46 girls (go with a roster of 23) in each age group in OC that have National team potential?


6 is too many teams if you want only national team prospects.  Too few if you want a viable league without excessive travel.

The national team prospects can probably fill at most 8-10 teams nationally.   fine for all star teams, but an awful size for day to day practice.


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## timbuck (Feb 27, 2020)

6 in so cal. 
1 in AZ
1 in NV
1 in UT
6 in Nor Cal.
There’s your DA league for the West/Southwest.  
Suck for az,nv and Utah to have to travel so much. But this is for the truly elite.  And it won’t cost anything to play.


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## dad4 (Feb 27, 2020)

6 in socal is more like 2 or 3 in norcal.  we don’t have your population.  still a league of 11 or 12.

Not sure I’d take the bait even at free.  Two hours in the car doesn’t leave much time for homework.  And I’m pretty sure Man City pays their quants more than the CM on the women's squad.


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## timbuck (Feb 27, 2020)

dad4 said:


> 6 in socal is more like 2 or 3 in norcal.  we don’t have your population.  still a league of 11 or 12.
> 
> Not sure I’d take the bait even at free.  Two hours in the car doesn’t leave much time for homework.  And I’m pretty sure Man City pays their quants more than the CM on the women's squad.


For the truly elite-  they’ll move closer to a DA team. Hell, the  Pulisic family moved to Germany when he was in his teens.
Or they’ll play in the “normal” league and get seen by scouts once in a while. And maybe still get called up for a national team camp.


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## kickingandscreaming (Feb 27, 2020)

Until the age for heading the ball, all games should use a futsol ball - no throw-ins, no goal kicks, no corner kicks.

Play both small sided games and larger field games within the same competition split about 50/50 until they are at least 10. Play futsal in the winter.

US Soccer DA should focus on a smaller footprint of teams - around 24 nationwide (about 64 DA teams now) and these teams play a year up in ECNL. Large geographic regions that can’t support a “local” team will select players from the region to make up a team that will compete in the DA Cup.

The DA “Showcases” will be the “DA Cup Competition”. This will serve as the DA playoffs. Use the week between Christmas and New Years the summer months using DA rules.

I would love to see youngers play a game where you only score on your possession. Once a team loses possession, the play is reset and the other team gets the ball. In the younger ages, so much scoring is off mistakes of players with the ball. This type of game would promote goals scored due to good possessions and eliminate giveaway goals. This could be part of the small sided games.


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## Grace T. (Feb 28, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Until the age for heading the ball, all games should use a futsol ball - no throw-ins, no goal kicks, no corner kicks.


That only works if you say no goalkeepers until then (which BTW would put us in line with the recommendations of the United Soccer Coaches of no goalkeepers until age 12, but it would put us out of step with the rest of the world since in addition to futsal academy players begin larger field play with goalkeepers as early as 10 and those goalkeepers in academy play are specialized FT keepers even at that early age).  Reason you have to say no keepers is the futsal ball is weighted, so particularly for younger kids who may not have keeper training it's very difficult to stop and can lead to injury-- if it's a high shot it might hit their heads leading to a concussion, if it's a low shot they'll have to dive or reaction save it leading to injury, and in any case they'll be developing bad goalkeeping habits that will have to be broken when they move to field play.  My GK son has taken more injuries in futsal than GK on a field.


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