# How's that Elite 64 League going?



## Code (Nov 4, 2022)

For those of you playing in the E64 League this year, how is it going?  Fall play is wrapping up with most teams having one or two more games, and then maybe some Thanksgiving week play.  Just curious if anyone could give some feedback compairing their teams experience between whatever league they played in perviously to the E64 match-ups, fields, organization, communication, etc..  The few people we know who are playing in E64 are all from the same club, different teams and genders, but in general they are not happy.  Wondering if other clubs are having a different experience?


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## Keeperkat (Nov 4, 2022)

Code said:


> For those of you playing in the E64 League this year, how is it going?  Fall play is wrapping up with most teams having one or two more games, and then maybe some Thanksgiving week play.  Just curious if anyone could give some feedback compairing their teams experience between whatever league they played in perviously to the E64 match-ups, fields, organization, communication, etc..  The few people we know who are playing in E64 are all from the same club, different teams and genders, but in general they are not happy.  Wondering if other clubs are having a different experience?


I haven't talked to anyone but I looked online at the results for one U17 girls team and they have only played 3 games since September 1 and will only play 5 total for the fall season compared to my daughter's ECRL U17 team that has played 11 games and 13 for the fall season.  I would be livid if I paid club fees for only 5 games over 3 months.  Maybe I am missing something and they are playing elsewhere and it isn't shown on the website.


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## Grace T. (Nov 4, 2022)

Keeperkat said:


> I haven't talked to anyone but I looked online at the results for one U17 girls team and they have only played 3 games since September 1 and will only play 5 total for the fall season compared to my daughter's ECRL U17 team that has played 11 games and 13 for the fall season.  I would be livid if I paid club fees for only 5 games over 3 months.  Maybe I am missing something and they are playing elsewhere and it isn't shown on the website.


This seems to be true for at least some of the brackets and the league also seems to be disbursed geographically which is a limitation on games. There have been anecdotal reports that to get the kids additional play time, some clubs are loaning players down levels to other teams.


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## RedCard (Nov 5, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> This seems to be true for at least some of the brackets and the league also seems to be disbursed geographically which is a limitation on games. There have been anecdotal reports that to get the kids additional play time, some clubs are loaning players down levels to other teams.


Yep, we've ran into this problem in the NPL with teams "bring down" E64 players to play in the U19 age group. We just played one of those teams this past Sunday. We still won 3-0 so it really didn't matter, it's just ashamed that coaches and clubs need to "bend" the rules to try to get the wins. There's one coach here in the north bracket that got suspended for the rest of the season for moving players down to stack lower level teams. He told his parents that "he didn't know it was against the rules". Sure coach...sure...


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## Code (Nov 14, 2022)

Well, over 1K views and not a single input from anyone participating in the E64 League.  I guess I'll take that as an answer to my query.


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## justneededaname (Nov 14, 2022)

My DD plays on an E64 team. I would say things are going very well.  They have played 7 games with 1 left to wrap up the fall season. All the games except one, have been against teams that matched up very well with them. Her team is at a club that will never be allowed into ECNL or GA, so for the options available them, this was a better choice than DPL or SOCAL flight 1/NPL. Went to a showcase in Austin a week ago. It was very well run and again, the games were generally evenly matched. As a league in Southern California, I would say it is well run and no complaints. I did get a chance to talk to parents from teams in other parts of the country and their experience did not seem to match ours, mostly due to lack of games, or a large variance in the quality of teams.

She has a great, friendly group of girls, parents that get along, and an excellent coach. All in all I would say it is going just fine.


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## Grace T. (Nov 14, 2022)

justneededaname said:


> My DD plays on an E64 team. I would say things are going very well.  They have played 7 games with 1 left to wrap up the fall season. All the games except one, have been against teams that matched up very well with them. Her team is at a club that will never be allowed into ECNL or GA, so for the options available them, this was a better choice than DPL or SOCAL flight 1/NPL. Went to a showcase in Austin a week ago. It was very well run and again, the games were generally evenly matched. As a league in Southern California, I would say it is well run and no complaints. I did get a chance to talk to parents from teams in other parts of the country and their experience did not seem to match ours, mostly due to lack of games, or a large variance in the quality of teams.
> 
> She has a great, friendly group of girls, parents that get along, and an excellent coach. All in all I would say it is going just fine.


7-8 games is a little light in comparison to ecnl, mls, ea and coast for an elite league.  Probably the outside acceptable limit so if others in other parts of the country are getting less then wow!


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## Venantsyo (Nov 14, 2022)

All the E64 parents I spoke to are less then enamored with it. This if for U14.


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## Code (Nov 14, 2022)

justneededaname said:


> My DD plays on an E64 team. I would say things are going very well.  They have played 7 games with 1 left to wrap up the fall season. All the games except one, have been against teams that matched up very well with them. Her team is at a club that will never be allowed into ECNL or GA, so for the options available them, this was a better choice than DPL or SOCAL flight 1/NPL. Went to a showcase in Austin a week ago. It was very well run and again, the games were generally evenly matched. As a league in Southern California, I would say it is well run and no complaints. I did get a chance to talk to parents from teams in other parts of the country and their experience did not seem to match ours, mostly due to lack of games, or a large variance in the quality of teams.
> 
> She has a great, friendly group of girls, parents that get along, and an excellent coach. All in all I would say it is going just fine.



That's good to hear.  Thank you for the feedback.  I'm not a fan of the closed loop league system we have with the top teams, so I can completely understand finding an option that brings a quality match at appropriate level of play.


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## Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr (Nov 24, 2022)

I have a u15 in it. It is more competitive than a scrimmage, but not as competitive as league. That's my conclusion. Think of the European leagues and their "League Cups" where teams up and down a country's pro set-up play each other. Think Eibar versus Bettis, Chelsea versus Luton Town, or the like. The lower level teams get geared up and compete hard, and the teams from higher leagues experiment with line-ups and play bench players who don't see a lot of minutes.

I like it.


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## WonderWoman (Nov 27, 2022)

from my understanding and a family member’s child participating in the league, CSL is better than the E64 League.


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## WonderWoman (Nov 29, 2022)

Lots of blowouts.  Here are the results and standings:


			GotSport


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## Ullanta (Nov 30, 2022)

It's OK (U13 Boys).  We expected some startup difficulties, and weren't disappointed.  Given ref and field shortages affecting everything, I'd say it went smoother than I thought.  But I woulda been less happy if those were the only games we played.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Nov 30, 2022)

I spoke to my U18 nephew from Illinois and asked him how E64 was going and his response was "I don't know what we're playing in these days...I don't care, it's stupid".


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## WonderWoman (Dec 2, 2022)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> I spoke to my U18 nephew from Illinois and asked him how E64 was going and his response was "I don't know what we're playing in these days...I don't care, it's stupid".


Exactly.  More new leagues every year.


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## flynight2 (Dec 3, 2022)

My friend child has been playing in the E64.  Said about 50%-60% of the games are competitive but the travel is too much for the competition. They should look to add some better teams  and regionalize more to add reduce travel.


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## flynight2 (Dec 4, 2022)

Any league that has ayso united  is not elite.  Thats the first mistake.


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## Code (Dec 4, 2022)

flynight2 said:


> My friend child has been playing in the E64.  Said about 50%-60% of the games are competitive but the travel is too much for the competition. They should look to add some better teams  and regionalize more to add reduce travel.


If they add more clubs then they will have to change the name to something else, or just keep changing the number.  The Elite 127+ Platinum Academy or something.  If they regionalize more, then they are basically recreating the local NPL or National League, but with the added cons that come with a closed Elite League.  It has potential to be successful in areas that don't have a concentration of good local competition.  It's going to be hard to sale to players/parents living in regions with a lot of options.


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## Grace T. (Dec 4, 2022)

flynight2 said:


> Any league that has ayso united  is not elite.  Thats the first mistake.


That’s not really fair at all. If you look at least locally on the boys side, with the Younger’s, they tend to do very well and several teams have gone far in the respective state cups. They have an advantage there due to the large recruiting base

the issue is they tend to level off because they don’t have a top tier (and reserve tier like ea ercl) so their best players have to go elsewhere to get college looks (and 1 maybe 3 teams next year in all of SoCal per age group in e64 isn’t going to cut it).  And they can’t get a top tier team until they change the everyone plays philosophy because the top leagues all limit substitute numbers, not to mention giving up some of the control that ayso has jealously guarded. 


Code said:


> If they add more clubs then they will have to change the name to something else, or just keep changing the number.  The Elite 127+ Platinum Academy or something.  If they regionalize more, then they are basically recreating the local NPL or National League, but with the added cons that come with a closed Elite League.  It has potential to be successful in areas that don't have a concentration of good local competition.  It's going to be hard to sale to players/parents living in regions with a lot of options.


The main thing driving this like the ayso United issue is that certain clubs have been locked out of the top tier levels of competition: mls next and ecnl so need somewhere to go.


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## Code (Dec 4, 2022)

Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr said:


> I have a u15 in it. It is more competitive than a scrimmage, but not as competitive as league. That's my conclusion. Think of the European leagues and their "League Cups" where teams up and down a country's pro set-up play each other. Think Eibar versus Bettis, Chelsea versus Luton Town, or the like. The lower level teams get geared up and compete hard, and the teams from higher leagues experiment with line-ups and play bench players who don't see a lot of minutes.
> 
> I like it.


 What league are you compairing it too?  CSL, NPL, Flight 1???


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## TopesWin (Dec 4, 2022)

flynight2 said:


> Any league that has ayso united  is not elite.  Thats the first mistake.


A kid on the 2010 team told me he hated E64 and his AYSO United team.  He was going to bail on both ASAP


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## RedCard (Dec 4, 2022)

Some of the teams in this "elite" league are the club's "C" team since they have ECNL and ECRL teams like Legends and Slammers. Not sure if any have a GA team.


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## Code (Dec 5, 2022)

I went back and read the Elite 64, ECNL, and GA rules.  If you read the E64 League rules there is no "team" roster to lock or roster size restrictions within their own club.  The clubs are completely free to move any and all players in the club onto the roster each week.  That is the intended concept of the E64 League, Club Player Pool vs Club Player Pool.  Clubs can adjust the rosters using all available players in an age group, allowing the club flexiblity in developing players across all their teams with additional playtime, and positional experiements in a competitive game environment.  Not Dedicated Team from the Club vs. Dedicated Team from another Club (Locked Rosters for season, ie ECNL/GA).  There are a lot of clubs running dedicated teams for E64 and E64 only.  Which is completly incognizant of the intended E64 product.  If a team is only playing in E64 games throughout the year, those players are being disadvantaged.  Every team on every E64 club should be playing in an additional (Primary) League, either MLS/EA/ECNL/RL/GA/DPL or NPL. If your clubs are not using the product correctly, maybe you should ask them to read the rule book before Highschool season is over.


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## Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr (Dec 9, 2022)

Code said:


> What league are you compairing it too?  CSL, NPL, Flight 1???


EA


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## Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr (Dec 9, 2022)

Code said:


> I went back and read the Elite 64, ECNL, and GA rules.  If you read the E64 League rules there is no "team" roster to lock or roster size restrictions within their own club.  The clubs are completely free to move any and all players in the club onto the roster each week.  That is the intended concept of the E64 League, Club Player Pool vs Club Player Pool.  Clubs can adjust the rosters using all available players in an age group, allowing the club flexiblity in developing players across all their teams with additional playtime, and positional experiements in a competitive game environment.  Not Dedicated Team from the Club vs. Dedicated Team from another Club (Locked Rosters for season, ie ECNL/GA).  There are a lot of clubs running dedicated teams for E64 and E64 only.  Which is completly incognizant of the intended E64 product.  If a team is only playing in E64 games throughout the year, those players are being disadvantaged.  Every team on every E64 club should be playing in an additional (Primary) League, either MLS/EA/ECNL/RL/GA/DPL or NPL. If your clubs are not using the product correctly, maybe you should ask them to read the rule book before Highschool season is over.


This 100%. Great post.


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## Grace T. (Dec 9, 2022)

Code said:


> I went back and read the Elite 64, ECNL, and GA rules.  If you read the E64 League rules there is no "team" roster to lock or roster size restrictions within their own club.  The clubs are completely free to move any and all players in the club onto the roster each week.  That is the intended concept of the E64 League, Club Player Pool vs Club Player Pool.  Clubs can adjust the rosters using all available players in an age group, allowing the club flexiblity in developing players across all their teams with additional playtime, and positional experiements in a competitive game environment.  Not Dedicated Team from the Club vs. Dedicated Team from another Club (Locked Rosters for season, ie ECNL/GA).  There are a lot of clubs running dedicated teams for E64 and E64 only.  Which is completly incognizant of the intended E64 product.  If a team is only playing in E64 games throughout the year, those players are being disadvantaged.  Every team on every E64 club should be playing in an additional (Primary) League, either MLS/EA/ECNL/RL/GA/DPL or NPL. If your clubs are not using the product correctly, maybe you should ask them to read the rule book before Highschool season is over.


It creates two issues however. One is that some of the clubs doing e64 are the ones locked out of mls ecnl.  Ideally it would be a place where the bench and reserve players from these teams would have a chance to get some extra playtime.  But some of the teams there just don’t have the opportunity of getting to that high level so they are using e64 as a surrogate.

the other issue is the scheduling since between travel and showcases it’s tough for ecnl mls and ea players to do e64 on top of that. Hence why we are probably seeing reports of e64 players also helping out on lower level teams (they are e64 first but get to help out on other teams). If you need to rely on 1 team to do e64 that is also doing SoCal and state cup, that’s some awful hard scheduling.  the Big clubs just don’t operate that way. They are all little fiefdoms run by coaches as their feudal lord. While they would be glad to receive a player up above to help them win their lower league, they’d be infuriated to cost them a league game by losing a better player to another coach.


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## Code (Dec 9, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> It creates two issues however. One is that some of the clubs doing e64 are the ones locked out of mls ecnl.  Ideally it would be a place where the bench and reserve players from these teams would have a chance to get some extra playtime.  But some of the teams there just don’t have the opportunity of getting to that high level so they are using e64 as a surrogate.
> 
> the other issue is the scheduling since between travel and showcases it’s tough for ecnl mls and ea players to do e64 on top of that. Hence why we are probably seeing reports of e64 players also helping out on lower level teams (they are e64 first but get to help out on other teams). If you need to rely on 1 team to do e64 that is also doing SoCal and state cup, that’s some awful hard scheduling.  the Big clubs just don’t operate that way. They are all little fiefdoms run by coaches as their feudal lord. While they would be glad to receive a player up above to help them win their lower league, they’d be infuriated to cost them a league game by losing a better player to another coach.


E64 is just not designed to be the same type of product as MLS or ECNL.  If clubs are trying to use it as a surrogate league for dedicated teams, then they are going to be disappointed.  It is clearly a Player Pool supplement for clubs with multiple teams in an age group.  Of course MLS and ECNL teams are not going to participate, they don't need too. As you pointed out, the schedule for those leagues are already demanding, these teams are playing about 30 games a year with League play and Events (not counting tournaments).  

E64 is targeting clubs who have top teams in NPL, and Flight 1, and Flight 2.  The SOCAL teams only have 10 games scheduled for league in Fall, and a few State Cup games in spring.  E64 would be easy to fit into these teams schedules, especially if you have a pool of 40-50 players.  And if you look at the schedule of E64 games played, it is clear a lot of clubs are doing this because most of their games are scheduled for spring.  The clubs who are using E64 as intended are getting to play dedicated teams in SOCAL NPL/Flight 1 and get to travel and play different clubs throughout the year.  I think that scenario would be tempting to join; NPL teams could pull some MLS/ECNL player back to fold.  

E64 players helping out on SOCAL teams is against the SOCAL rules.  Club pass between teams can only occur if the player is Primarily rostered on a SOCAL team.  If they are Primarily rostered on a team in a different league (MLS, ECNL, EA, E64), and play with a SOCAL team, the teams game would be forfeit and the club fined for each occurrence.  Wouldn't be hard to prove.  

This is the benefit of not having a dedicated E64 team.  Roster every player as a Primary on a SOCAL team, all E64 rosters are secondary.  No rule violation, max flexibility to club pass all players at the club onto the SOCAL rosters, complete freedom to use player pool for E64 rosters each game.  You don't need a dedicated E64 coach for each age group either, use the entire coaching staff to mitigate scheduling conflicts, and developmental diversity.  Smaller clubs running business this way, can compete with the Big Club feifdoms.  Which is what I think US Youth Soccer had in mind when they created the E64 concept.


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## flynight2 (Dec 10, 2022)

Elite 64 is similar to the level of CSL but it CSL higher level the scores are usually closer because these teams won promotion to get there.


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## TopesWin (Dec 11, 2022)

flynight2 said:


> Elite 64 is similar to the level of CSL but it CSL higher level the scores are usually closer because these teams won promotion to get there.


Not really.  CSL is just a shell of what is left over after all the good clubs left.  Promotion or not, there's just no strong teams left at most age groups. 
E64 has some very good teams, but also some weak ones (AYSO United, for instance and the thrid or fourth-tier teams from the big clubs) that seem to be there so that the league could get to the 64 teams they promised they would have.


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## Grace T. (Dec 11, 2022)

TopesWin said:


> Not really.  CSL is just a shell of what is left over after all the good clubs left.  Promotion or not, there's just no strong teams left at most age groups.
> E64 has some very good teams, but also some weak ones (AYSO United, for instance and the thrid or fourth-tier teams from the big clubs) that seem to be there so that the league could get to the 64 teams they promised they would have.


What are you talking about?  On the boys end pacific ayso United is top side of the table in 2, mid table in 4, bottom in 1 of the teams I looked up.  Like many of the bigger clubs they seem top or bottom depending on year and team.


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## Code (Dec 11, 2022)

TopesWin said:


> Not really.  CSL is just a shell of what is left over after all the good clubs left.  Promotion or not, there's just no strong teams left at most age groups.
> E64 has some very good teams, but also some weak ones (AYSO United, for instance and the thrid or fourth-tier teams from the big clubs) that seem to be there so that the league could get to the 64 teams they promised they would have.



Boys side only has 59 clubs participating.  Girls side only has 56 clubs participating.  So they haven't yet found 64 clubs looking to play.  What "big" clubs have teams participating?  Looking at most of the teams in the Pacific division girls side, the teams look to be from affiliates, not the main club.  Which in reality, are separate clubs.  For example, East County Surf is not Surf.  Those EC Surf teams are the clubs first teams.  The Legends teams appear to be from the Legends Santa Clarita Valley affiliate, not the Legends club from Norco, so most likely, Legends SCV first teams.  Slammers teams look to be from CDA Slammers Fullerton.  I don't know how all the clubs up in LA are organized/affiliated, so I could be wrong, but I'm not sure any of the "big" clubs are actually participating in E64.  It seems as though the teams with the "big" club names are just affiliate clubs from other areas, that have been really vague about the club name.  If anyone is aware of a specific club playing their third or fourth team in E64 I would like to be corrected.


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## TopesWin (Dec 11, 2022)

Code said:


> Boys side only has 59 clubs participating.  Girls side only has 56 clubs participating.  So they haven't yet found 64 clubs looking to play.  What "big" clubs have teams participating?  Looking at most of the teams in the Pacific division girls side, the teams look to be from affiliates, not the main club.  Which in reality, are separate clubs.  For example, East County Surf is not Surf.  Those EC Surf teams are the clubs first teams.  The Legends teams appear to be from the Legends Santa Clarita Valley affiliate, not the Legends club from Norco, so most likely, Legends SCV first teams.  Slammers teams look to be from CDA Slammers Fullerton.  I don't know how all the clubs up in LA are organized/affiliated, so I could be wrong, but I'm not sure any of the "big" clubs are actually participating in E64.  It seems as though the teams with the "big" club names are just affiliate clubs from other areas, that have been really vague about the club name.  If anyone is aware of a specific club playing their third or fourth team in E64 I would like to be corrected.


Hmmmm, ok, maybe they fooled me.  I'd also be interested in hearing whether any big club teams are actually playing E64.

As for AYSO United, the teams are - for the most part - weak. Where they are near the top in their divisions, it speaks to a very weak division.  Thanks for clarifying.


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## Code (Dec 11, 2022)

TopesWin said:


> Hmmmm, ok, maybe they fooled me.  I'd also be interested in hearing whether any big club teams are actually playing E64.
> 
> As for AYSO United, the teams are - for the most part - weak. Where they are near the top in their divisions, it speaks to a very weak division.  Thanks for clarifying.


I'm with ya.  It's hard to figure out where these teams actually play, and what other leagues they are or are not playing in.  Some club websites are up to date, and you can see who is coaching what team, and then easily figure out where the E64 team came from.  Other's, who knows.  I think maybe  LASC and some of the East Coast/Midwest teams may be from the source clubs, but I to am hoping someone can chime in.


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## D8958 (Dec 13, 2022)

TopesWin said:


> Hmmmm, ok, maybe they fooled me.  I'd also be interested in hearing whether any big club teams are actually playing E64.
> 
> As for AYSO United, the teams are - for the most part - weak. Where they are near the top in their divisions, it speaks to a very weak division.  Thanks for clarifying.


There are 4 clubs that are weaker than AYSO United in the E64 Pacific Divisions in terms of average position in standings.
There isn't a single AYSO United team in last place in their division. 
There are 2 clubs with 3 teams each in last place in their divisions.

If AYSO United is weak, then Las Vegas Surf, Laguna United, LAUFA and FC Premier are all weaker.


ClubAverage Position in E64 Standings1​South Valley Surf2.52​CDA Slammers Elite3.53​Legends FC3.84​Los Angeles Soccer Club4.35​East County Surf4.46​Strikers FC North4.67​AYSO United  5.38​Las Vegas Surf5.89​Laguna United FC6.210​LA United Futbol Academy7.211​FC Premier7.3




Male U13 - 13U Boys Pacific

 Schedule  Results  View PDF



Male U14 - 14U Boys Pacific

 Schedule  Results  View PDF



Male U15 - 15U Boys Pacific

 Schedule  Results  View PDF



Male U16 - 16U Boys Pacific

 Schedule  Results  View PDF



 Male U17 - 17U Boys Pacific

 Schedule  Results  View PDF



Male U19 - 19U Boys Pacific

 Schedule  Results  View PDF



Female U13 - 13U Girls Pacific

 Schedule  Results  View PDF



Female U14 - 14U Girls Pacific

 Schedule  Results  View PDF



Female U15 - 15U Girls Pacific

 Schedule  Results  View PDF



Female U16 - 16U Girls Pacific

 Schedule  Results  View PDF



Female U17 - 17U Girls Pacific

 Schedule  Results  View PDF



Female U19 - 19U Girls Pacific

 Schedule  Results  View PDF


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## Code (Dec 13, 2022)

D8958 said:


> There are 4 clubs that are weaker than AYSO United in the E64 Pacific Divisions in terms of average position in standings.
> There isn't a single AYSO United team in last place in their division.
> There are 2 clubs with 3 teams each in last place in their divisions.
> 
> ...



Firet, before I point this out, I'm not implying AYSO United is weak, I actually think they are pretty good.  I do have to point out that some of these teams have only played 1 or 2 games, most have 3-5 games, and others have played 8.  The rankings and points might show a trend for the highest and lowest performing clubs right now. But it is going to change a lot once all the teams have played the same amount of games.  With such a wide variation in the games played, I would expect significant changes in points and rankings once play starts again.


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## D8958 (Dec 13, 2022)

Code said:


> Firet, before I point this out, I'm not implying AYSO United is weak, I actually think they are pretty good.  I do have to point out that some of these teams have only played 1 or 2 games, most have 3-5 games, and others have played 8.  The rankings and points might show a trend for the highest and lowest performing clubs right now. But it is going to change a lot once all the teams have played the same amount of games.  With such a wide variation in the games played, I would expect significant changes in points and rankings once play starts again.


And here is the other weird part about the league that could impact standings, the teams are basically aggregators, they can sign whoever whenever pretty much, so Superstar Susie or Joe available on a couple weekends,  presto, a team has completely different results one weekend to the next.


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## justabystander (Dec 20, 2022)

Let me provide a non-SoCal perspective.  Our club has always been a nationally competitive club; boys did DA when it was a thing and girls are in GA. The city got awarded the MLS pro team and our club partnered with them.  The MLS pro team has the MLS Next team and they draw 4-5 players in each age group of our club and they recruit nationally for rest of roster, so we dont do MLS next for the high school ages.  Our club hosts these nation wide pool of players in local homes that play for the MLS pro team's MLS next team.  Our team lost to the MLS next team 2-1 and also to the other MLS pro team's MLS next team that is about an hour an half away, also 2-1.  We also beat the top teams in the ECNL conference that is in our area when we do non-conference friendlies. 

The problem is we are kind of stuck.  Club has a partnership with the local MLS Pro team and the parents deduce that we wont do ECNL because of our MLS partnership.  A lot of teams in our state and surrounding states joined ECNL, but these were all the weak teams that couldn't compete anywhere else.  Most of those weak teams went ECRL, but also some went to the ECNL conference.  We are better than the majority of those teams and we play non-conference games against them.  One of the weakest clubs from our USYS regional league last year was accepted for ECNL - wow!  

So the club doesnt do high school age MLS next and it doesnt do ECNL.  NL Pro last year had quality teams.  E64 comes around and many of the good NL Pro teams from last year jumped ship and joined MLS Next or ECNL.  So now we are in E64 and the competition is weak and watching NL Pro that is even weaker.  

We have two other kids that play NCAA D1 and D3.  I talked to one of their coaches at the Orlando showcase and they were underwhelmed.  I talked to another college coach (D1) from my town that coaches at my daughter's club when she was in high school and he too says this was all underwhelming.  Our team is crushing conference teams and teams from other conferences (in Orlando).  USYS really ruined and diluted talent when it split the National League to NL Pro to NL Pro and E64.  Also, it only has 61 teams - I call it E61.  Every team has to go to the playoffs in Oceanside next year regardless of what they place in their conference.  The top two teams from each conference will play for the E64 title in a Tier 1 playoff.  Tier 2 will be all the third and fourth place teams; Tier 3 fifth and sixth; Tier 4 seventh and eighth.  What a waste of time and money to travel for a week to California is a team is in Tier 2-4.  

So to sum it all up - very disappointed.  We feel duped by USYS.  Most teams are weak.  There is probably 5 teams +/- a handful that are quality.


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## justabystander (Dec 20, 2022)

D8958 said:


> And here is the other weird part about the league that could impact standings, the teams are basically aggregators, they can sign whoever whenever pretty much, so Superstar Susie or Joe available on a couple weekends,  presto, a team has completely different results one weekend to the next.


I think you are right.  Looking at standings from conferences that have played a majority of their games and the scores are all over the place.  Many teams show inconsistent results and it makes me wonder if they are fielding a different team each week.


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## Code (Dec 21, 2022)

justabystander said:


> Let me provide a non-SoCal perspective.  Our club has always been a nationally competitive club; boys did DA when it was a thing and girls are in GA. The city got awarded the MLS pro team and our club partnered with them.  The MLS pro team has the MLS Next team and they draw 4-5 players in each age group of our club and they recruit nationally for rest of roster, so we dont do MLS next for the high school ages.  Our club hosts these nation wide pool of players in local homes that play for the MLS pro team's MLS next team.  Our team lost to the MLS next team 2-1 and also to the other MLS pro team's MLS next team that is about an hour an half away, also 2-1.  We also beat the top teams in the ECNL conference that is in our area when we do non-conference friendlies.
> 
> The problem is we are kind of stuck.  Club has a partnership with the local MLS Pro team and the parents deduce that we wont do ECNL because of our MLS partnership.  A lot of teams in our state and surrounding states joined ECNL, but these were all the weak teams that couldn't compete anywhere else.  Most of those weak teams went ECRL, but also some went to the ECNL conference.  We are better than the majority of those teams and we play non-conference games against them.  One of the weakest clubs from our USYS regional league last year was accepted for ECNL - wow!
> 
> ...


It sounds like your club is getting the short end of the stick in your MLS Partnership arrangement.  Your club is taking on the cons (locked out of certain leagues) of being an MLS Next Club, but not the pros (talent attraction of players and coaches).  The players from your club who are good enough to make the MLS Next team would probably have made the team even without the partnership.  I don't think USYS had intentions for the clubs that joined to run dedicated teams in only the E64 the entire year.  The rules just don't support that strategy.  It is designed to either be a supplemental league for high level teams, or a club pool play system without dedicated teams.  USYS certainly could have made it clear that it was not going to be a Tier 1 League, when they failed to add more than a handful of Tier 1 teams into the league.  I hope your club finds something at the appropriate level for the players.  Some clubs in SOCAL are splitting into "separate" organizations so they can have an MLS Next program and other programs.


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## justabystander (Dec 21, 2022)

Code said:


> It sounds like your club is getting the short end of the stick in your MLS Partnership arrangement.  Your club is taking on the cons (locked out of certain leagues) of being an MLS Next Club, but not the pros (talent attraction of players and coaches).  The players from your club who are good enough to make the MLS Next team would probably have made the team even without the partnership.  I don't think USYS had intentions for the clubs that joined to run dedicated teams in only the E64 the entire year.  The rules just don't support that strategy.  It is designed to either be a supplemental league for high level teams, or a club pool play system without dedicated teams.  USYS certainly could have made it clear that it was not going to be a Tier 1 League, when they failed to add more than a handful of Tier 1 teams into the league.  I hope your club finds something at the appropriate level for the players.  Some clubs in SOCAL are splitting into "separate" organizations so they can have an MLS Next program and other programs.


I can definitely see how could see E64 as supplemental, but their words on their webpage describing E64:

"Elite 64 is US Youth Soccer National League’s ‘Elite Performance Tier,’ which is the pinnacle of soccer in the United States, providing a never-before-seen experience that enhances a player’s recruitment into the college and professional game"

"Elite 64 is building player and recruitment pathways never before seen in the youth soccer landscape of the United States Elite 64 provides to each player all the tools they need to not only develop, but to also take the next steps toward recruitment at the collegiate level, professional level, or international level. " 

"As the name suggests, Elite 64 is made up of top 64 boys clubs and top 64 girls clubs in the United States, all striving to be the best by competing with the best."

These words are not words used for a supplemental league.  The message that is being sent by USYS is that this is a Tier 1 League.   Evenso, our club still does really well with college recruitment and our director is nationally known and well respected.  My son's team was "ranked" ahead of all but two MLS teams and beat an ECNL national finalist in an age group above theirs during a friendly.  12 of 22 players went D1, 3 went to ranked D3 teams as a personal choice for school and location, and 7 didn't want to play anymore after high school - I'd say they did alright with college recruitment.

My concern lies more for my second son in high school now.  The E64 Orlando showcase quickly demonstrated to college coaches how underwhelming the league is.  Like I posted before, there are a handful of quality teams in our age group, but the majority of teams not what we thought the competition would be like.  Eventually the college coach attendance lists will get smaller and smaller as more E64 games are watched.  I am really annoyed with USYS for selling this E64 bit.

The bigger problem is that MLS Next and ECNL are expanding so much that everyone is "elite".  There are close to 100 teams in the MLS Next age group for my son and who knows how many for ECNL - probably similar number.  MLS Next added 24 clubs in 21-22 and 8 more in 22-23.  Many teams also went to ECNL.  So suddenly these teams that couldn't get out of state cup group play are now considered to be the "elite" players the next year because their club joined MLS Next or ECNL.

My daughter's club coach who was also the D1 coach for the university in town would always say these leagues keeping adding to teams to their "elite" league that now everyone is considered "elite".  Anyway, now I'm just venting.  Thanks for reading if you read this far.


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## Code (Dec 21, 2022)

justabystander said:


> I can definitely see how could see E64 as supplemental, but their words on their webpage describing E64:
> 
> "Elite 64 is US Youth Soccer National League’s ‘Elite Performance Tier,’ which is the pinnacle of soccer in the United States, providing a never-before-seen experience that enhances a player’s recruitment into the college and professional game"
> 
> ...


They definitely mislead a lot of people about what they were building.  I still think it is a good product, but they need to be clear about what is different with their product than the competition (pool play vs dedicated teams).  It is years away from being a threat to MLS Next or ECNL, if ever.  But, I think it will be a significant threat to all the other Tier 2 letter leagues, once clubs realize they can play dedicated teams in the local leagues, and pool play their best players in E64 competitions.  Joining ECNL is more about resources, fields and number of players, than level of play.  If a club can provide good fields and administration, ECNL knows the top players will migrate over to the club once they have the branding.  Soccer is growing fast in the US, so I am not surprised the level of good teams will continue to expand for awhile as well.  The problem is that none of these 'Elite' Leagues are implementing promotion and relegation.  At some point, there will need to be a consolidation of Leagues to truly get the best players competing.  This past year should be a lesson to everyone: you can't make a Tier 1 League without bringing in the Tier 1 Teams.  Gathering Tier 3 teams, and calling them Tier 1, will result in a Tier 3 League.  No slight intended toward your team, I know there are a few Tier 1 teams in E64, but they are the exception, and I'm sure are equally frustrated with the scenario.  I would have a serious discussion with your Director about having your team play in a high level league outside E64, and use the E64 matches as pool play for benched players, and lower level teams at your club.  At least for a few years until the E64 grows or dies.


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## TopesWin (Dec 21, 2022)

justabystander said:


> I can definitely see how could see E64 as supplemental, but their words on their webpage describing E64:
> 
> "Elite 64 is US Youth Soccer National League’s ‘Elite Performance Tier,’ which is the pinnacle of soccer in the United States, providing a never-before-seen experience that enhances a player’s recruitment into the college and professional game"
> 
> ...


For starters, you know there's going to be major problems when a league says they will be the Top 64 teams in the country.  Basing a whole playing circuit on a foundation that is a brazen lie is n to end well.


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## justabystander (Dec 22, 2022)

TopesWin said:


> For starters, you know there's going to be major problems when a league says they will be the Top 64 teams in the country.  Basing a whole playing circuit on a foundation that is a brazen lie is n to end well.


Absolutely agree with you.  The word used is clubs, not teams.  However, it is still misleading; and even then it is not the top 64 clubs in the country.


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## ToonArmy (Dec 22, 2022)

I don't know anything about this league and what club teams are in it and how good the competition is. I do have a neighbor who's daughter plays on a team in this league and they recently went to an out of state league showcase. I looked at the college coaches attending for the girls as I do for most of the "exclusive" league showcases and elite 64 Florida had more colleges attending the girls side than ECRL and DPL have had at their showcases. Neither of those leagues had many if any division 1 schools which is expected. those schools use their resources for ECNL, GA, and open showcases like Surf and Silverlakes. Just thought it was interesting. Pretty decent turn-out as far as number of colleges for those girls at that elite 64 showcase.


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