# Open letter to HS and club soccer coaches



## E Dykes (Sep 20, 2018)

Its time to team up and work together.  I currently work with both a So Cal HS and a So Cal club and what I'm hearing going on within some programs is breaking our kids so lets get to it.

HS coaches- lay off the conditioning on Thurs & Fridays until the club season is over. As a club coach I have kids running 4/5 miles on Friday with their HS team and then they are asked to play top tier soccer with some playing 2 game that weekend. Not healthy for kids. I'm in charge of strength and condition at the HS I work at. I go light with mainly upper body work and mobility late in the week.

Club coaches- Be aware that MANY HS teams are running heavily right now in prep for their season. Don't run them again. Train tactics. Most HS coaches aren't even touching a ball right now.
- I'm not a fan of running them for miles at a time but its happening and its happening a bunch- so don't make it worse.  

HS coaches- Many of your training methods are hurting your kids ability to play the game and are causing injuries. Old school methods are not a good way to train today's year round soccer players. Running their butts off 5 days a week is easy for you as you stand around and yell that them but it is not healthy. You have access to weights, build strength, mobility and SOME conditioning. Know many of these kids are training 3 night a week for another 6 hours. They are running at their practice too even if its not conditioning. When they are dragging at your practice it doesn't mean they are out of shape its more often they are over training and breaking down.

Club coaches leave your ego at the door. Know its easier for you to adapt your training instead of asking coaches from a dozen high schools to adapt to you.

Coaches- communicate with each other. You care about your kids but you are inadvertently over training the kids and hurting their bodies in the long run. Coordinate the best you can.

I'm proud of our our HS and the team I work with effort but is rare and kids are getting injured and burnt out


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## Mystery Train (Sep 20, 2018)

E Dykes said:


> Its time to team up and work together.  I currently work with both a So Cal HS and a So Cal club and what I'm hearing going on within some programs is breaking our kids so lets get to it.
> 
> HS coaches- lay off the conditioning on Thurs & Fridays until the club season is over. As a club coach I have kids running 4/5 miles on Friday with their HS team and then they are asked to play top tier soccer with some playing 2 game that weekend. Not healthy for kids. I'm in charge of strength and condition at the HS I work at. I go light with mainly upper body work and mobility late in the week.
> 
> ...


Ohmygod.  Thank you!  If I could rate this "Winner" a thousand times I would.  

As a parent of a kid playing high level club with 3 practices a week PLUS keeper training, and who plays HS ball, my DD is at her absolute physical limit trying to meet the expectations of her two coaches.  The running is f*$king INSANE.  She's going to get injured if she keeps this up, but she's such a competitor and such a good soldier, she won't beg off any of the activities for fear of looking like a weak link or lazy.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 20, 2018)

I agree with the sentiment of the thread but isn't the bigger question, "why are HS coaches running/conditioning club players many of whom are in mid-season shape?". Surely save the running for the players who don't play club....

Not to mention the fact they should be using a ball at all times on account of this being soccer not track....


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## focomoso (Sep 20, 2018)

E Dykes said:


> ...Most HS coaches aren't even touching a ball right now...


Why is anyone doing conditioning without the ball? It's not even old school. It's no school... After a warm up lap or two, all conditioning should be done with or off the ball. Running just to run doesn't condition you for playing soccer because at no time during a soccer game does anyone just run in a straight line, or do wind sprints or whatever. You always have to know where the ball is and where the spaces are.

End bad coaching rant...


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## watfly (Sep 20, 2018)

When you say running are you talking about jogging miles at a time?  Running laps is a sure sign of a lazy and uncreative youth coach.  Running wind sprints without the ball isn't much better.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 20, 2018)

HS coaches want kids to be playing HS the whole year. Club coaches don't want their players to play HS. 
Until those people put their differences aside and start actually caring about the well being of the players, nothing will change.


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## timbuck (Sep 20, 2018)

Is this a CIF loophole?  If a soccer player isn't allowed to participate in club soccer and high school soccer games at the same time, why are they allowed to "practice" for both?  Does the fact that there isn't a ball involved with this conditioning give them the right to practice?


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## focomoso (Sep 20, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> HS coaches want kids to be playing HS the whole year. Club coaches don't want their players to play HS.
> Until those people put their differences aside and start actually caring about the well being of the players, nothing will change.


What do you think is the best solution? Not just you, anyone on the thread. My kids are a few years away from HS, but this is something I think about because one of them is DA and may not get to play HS at all...


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## mirage (Sep 20, 2018)

E Dykes said:


> Its time to team up and work together.  I currently work with both a So Cal HS and a So Cal club and what I'm hearing going on within some programs is breaking our kids so lets get to it.....


Nice but not all high schools have their teams selected (have not had a tryout yet), much less training 5 days/week.  My kid's HC is also a local university HC and all the other coaches at the HS soccer (both boys and girls) are his players.  They are in middle of their season so there is no HS activity.

Any given team probably has some that are practicing HS and some not.  There is no consistency.

The thing to do, imho, is not to condition and run them to death at HS as it really is not in season.  Work on teamwork, chemistry and skills that do not require physical demands.  

Rather than saying club coaches should work on tactics only, why not back off on HS side physically.  Many clubs have their curriculum for during the season and have their own priorities.  Cleary, they backoff and let HS soccer take priority during CIF season.


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## E Dykes (Sep 20, 2018)

futboldad1 said:


> I agree with the sentiment of the thread but isn't the bigger question, "why are HS coaches running/conditioning club players many of whom are in mid-season shape?". Surely save the running for the players who don't play club....
> 
> Not to mention the fact they should be using a ball at all times on account of this being soccer not track....


The truth is that some of these kids in their eyes are not in shape. My hunch is that a few are not but many are under preforming due to over training


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## E Dykes (Sep 20, 2018)

mirage said:


> Nice but not all high schools have their teams selected (have not had a tryout yet), much less training 5 days/week.  My kid's HC is also a local university HC and all the other coaches at the HS soccer (both boys and girls) are his players.  They are in middle of their season so there is no HS activity.
> 
> Any given team probably has some that are practicing HS and some not.  There is no consistency.
> 
> ...


I agree with your post but that is not happening at many sites AND the strong high schools have access to weights etc that can be very beneficial for all players. A well planned strength program is something that most clubs cant implement and would benefit both programs


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## E Dykes (Sep 20, 2018)

watfly said:


> When you say running are you talking about jogging miles at a time?  Running laps is a sure sign of a lazy and uncreative youth coach.  Running wind sprints without the ball isn't much better.


depends on the school. MANY are just running. Mile after mile etc. Others are crushing bleachers etc. depends greatly from program to program


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## Not_that_Serious (Sep 20, 2018)

watfly said:


> When you say running are you talking about jogging miles at a time?  Running laps is a sure sign of a lazy and uncreative youth coach.  Running wind sprints without the ball isn't much better.


Lap running lacks any creativity and simply lazy as you said. Sprints ramping up for season is sometimes necessary, but usually I see those coming as punishment for not listening or kids goofing off. Kids run enough, if they are engaged, in practice. Given all the kids are different, preseason training needs to be geared at the individual level. Kids who need to run, should run. Kids coming in fit, dont need to be run to death. Smart coaches and trainers can group the kids or run training that focuses on their individual needs. Some kids might even need to run on their own, away from training grounds. Coaches I know have talked to parents and had them on running schedules as needed. To run everyone for miles and just watch is straight poo.


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## younothat (Sep 20, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Is this a CIF loophole?  If a soccer player isn't allowed to participate in club soccer and high school soccer games at the same time, why are they allowed to "practice" for both?  Does the fact that there isn't a ball involved with this conditioning give them the right to practice?


6th period PE...only a hour during school so ok

When you're in multiple sports, AP classes, and also work your schedule can be brutal.

Yesterday our daughter: trained  vball for 4 hours at school 2-6pm,  got a quick bite;  club soccer: 6:30-8pm, showered,  hit the books unitl 10:30 and will repeat the next day but maybe work the 4 hours instead of the training when she doesn't have double days.  Not for everybody but she manged to stay on the presidents list, get some scholarships and accepted into a college she wants to attend next year but won't be playing college sports since she doesn't see them as a long term play or career.


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## Simisoccerfan (Sep 20, 2018)

I am happy my kid is now at the DA and will not be playing HS her senior year.  The training load on her in the fall until Thanksgiving time was insane.  Now she will get a nice one month break and we can finally take that family skiiing/snowboarding trip over the holidays.


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## Sheriff Joe (Sep 20, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> I am happy my kid is now at the DA and will not be playing HS her senior year.  The training load on her in the fall until Thanksgiving time was insane.  Now she will get a nice one month break and we can finally take that family skiiing/snowboarding trip over the holidays.


Her coach lets her ski/snowboard?
My daughters team has had games every weekend from the middle of july through  early december, including labor day and thanksgiving weekends, as well as 2 out of state tournaments.
Crazy how much they play and train.


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## Sheriff Joe (Sep 20, 2018)

E Dykes said:


> The truth is that some of these kids in their eyes are not in shape. My hunch is that a few are not but many are under preforming due to over training


Many high school players do not play club and after the summer break might be out of shape.


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## Dummy (Sep 20, 2018)

focomoso said:


> What do you think is the best solution? Not just you, anyone on the thread. My kids are a few years away from HS, but this is something I think about because one of them is DA and may not get to play HS at all...


Players (and families) must be prepared to prioritize one or the other and respectfully say “no” to requests that are not in the best interest of the player.

Club soccer has made my player into a player that a high school or college soccer coach might see some value in.  High school soccer has been a very fun and rewarding social experience.  She has had to say “no” to each coach at different times, but for the most part club has been the priority.

A good DA experience may make this easier for your player to do when the time comes.  Good luck to her!


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## Eagle33 (Sep 20, 2018)

focomoso said:


> What do you think is the best solution? Not just you, anyone on the thread. My kids are a few years away from HS, but this is something I think about because one of them is DA and may not get to play HS at all...


The only solution I see is to get all those club and HS coaches in the same room and don't let them out until they figure out how to communicate and look out for player's best interest. 
DA is one way not to play HS soccer, but you don't have to be in DA to do this. You can simply play other sports and enjoy the experience. All the DA players I know actually would love to play HS if US Soccer would allow it.


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## Mom Taxi (Sep 20, 2018)

Aren't most players who are playing club coming into HS season already fit? I know after last last HS season for my DD's  team there was an issue with several players who returned to club really out of shape after HS season. Go figure.


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## timbuck (Sep 20, 2018)

I may have asked this in a thread a while ago. 
Why not make soccer a spring sport for high school in so cal?
Let Club have fall with state cup wrapping up by end of February.  
Play high School soccer from March-June.


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## espola (Sep 20, 2018)

Arrange a meeting with the coach and principal.  Declare to them that for your child's health, he/she will not be particip[ating in this nonsense.  If they don't agree, ask for the contact information of the district's lawyer.


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## Simisoccerfan (Sep 20, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I may have asked this in a thread a while ago.
> Why not make soccer a spring sport for high school in so cal?
> Let Club have fall with state cup wrapping up by end of February.
> Play high School soccer from March-June.


Track and Field and also Lacrosse uses the fields in Spring.  Football has the fields in Fall.


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## MWN (Sep 20, 2018)

Let me get this straight ... for the vast amount of H.S. in SoCal, the HS Season doesn't start until December with the first scrimmage sometime in mid-November.  My kid's HS will not have tryouts until Mid-October.  There are HS teams in SoCal (Southern Section) practicing now?  What division or schools are doing this now?

Edit: Central Section explicitly states practices can't start until October 29.


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## sweeperkeeper (Sep 20, 2018)

Seems like you are bypassing the person with the most skin in the game here, the athlete or the parent.  At some point they need to advocate for themselves and talk to the coaches what is going on.  

There are some teams where the communication might be possible where there is one team/program feeding into a school (team A feeds into school A) but there are other areas where a team is feeding into multiple schools (team A into school A, B and C) or where you have multiple club teams going into a school (team A, B and C going to school A).  THEN you have to consider that HS teams have different levels (Frosh, JV, Varsity) who might have different schedules.  It is pretty unrealistic for use to expect that the coaches would have a pow wow each week to ensure your child isn't over training.  

Also, whomever said that running in a straight line "never" happens it full of BS.  How many recovery runs or overlaps are done in the game w/o the ball? I'm not advocating for track workouts every day but there it a reason that the national teams have conditioning workouts without the ball.  (



).


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## Simisoccerfan (Sep 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> Let me get this straight ... for the vast amount of H.S. in SoCal, the HS Season doesn't start until December with the first scrimmage sometime in mid-November.  My kid's HS will not have tryouts until Mid-October.  There are HS teams in SoCal (Southern Section) practicing now?  What division or schools are doing this now?
> 
> Edit: Central Section explicitly states practices can't start until October 29.


Most schools offer a PE class for each sport.  In this case you take the PE Class for soccer.  Then the coach is free with work with the team as much as they want during that timeframe.


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## watfly (Sep 20, 2018)

sweeperkeeper said:


> Seems like you are bypassing the person with the most skin in the game here, the athlete or the parent.  At some point they need to advocate for themselves and talk to the coaches what is going on.
> 
> There are some teams where the communication might be possible where there is one team/program feeding into a school (team A feeds into school A) but there are other areas where a team is feeding into multiple schools (team A into school A, B and C) or where you have multiple club teams going into a school (team A, B and C going to school A).  THEN you have to consider that HS teams have different levels (Frosh, JV, Varsity) who might have different schedules.  It is pretty unrealistic for use to expect that the coaches would have a pow wow each week to ensure your child isn't over training.
> 
> ...


National teams and pros have the luxury of having significantly more training time than youth soccer players.  Running laps or even wind sprints is an inefficient use of a youth's team practice time.  A decent coach should be capable of incorporating conditioning and touches in the same drill.

While were on the subject of running, it's mind boggling to me that soccer coaches don't correct the running technique of players with poor form.  I see way too many floppy armed kids on the pitch these days.   Balls are won and lost (as are games) by a half-step all the time.


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## timbuck (Sep 20, 2018)

What about club soccer players that are running cross country?  
I guess there is a big meet this Saturday.


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## Frank (Sep 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> Let me get this straight ... for the vast amount of H.S. in SoCal, the HS Season doesn't start until December with the first scrimmage sometime in mid-November.  My kid's HS will not have tryouts until Mid-October.  There are HS teams in SoCal (Southern Section) practicing now?  What division or schools are doing this now?
> 
> Edit: Central Section explicitly states practices can't start until October 29.


Son at a major CIFSS D1 HS program which doesn't mean they do it right but this is what they do.  They have had results so they must be doing something right for the HS.  For the player ???    I know he is spent and burnt out at certain times of the year with the 4-5 days a week on top of this regiment.

Summer
2 weeks of 2 hour a day training
~8 weeks of weightlifting
1 1/2 months of summer league games

Fall
5 days a week 7th period training
4 days a week weightlifting after training

Winter
5-6 days a week training and games

Spring
5 days a week 7th period training
4 days a week weightlifting after training

Not much time to ever not be on the field with the club schedule on top of it.  The HS coach and the club coach are definitely at odds and each believe their program is what matters most.


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## Mystery Train (Sep 20, 2018)

Mom Taxi said:


> Aren't most players who are playing club coming into HS season already fit?


Exactly why HS coaches shouldn't be mandating crazy fitness testing.


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## Mom Taxi (Sep 20, 2018)

watfly said:


> While were on the subject of running, it's mind boggling to me that soccer coaches don't correct the running technique of players with poor form.  I see way too many floppy armed kids on the pitch these days.   Balls are won and lost (as are games) by a half-step all the time.


My DD runs cross country and she is a pretty talented runner, but her cross country coaches are forever frustrated by her “soccer arms” . They encourage her to tuck her elbows in to help increase her speed, but her elbows are always out.


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## watfly (Sep 20, 2018)

Mom Taxi said:


> My DD runs cross country and she is a pretty talented runner, but her cross country coaches are forever frustrated by her “soccer arms” . They encourage her to tuck her elbows in to help increase her speed, but her elbows are always out.


Ha, ha, I guess it works both ways.  At least your daughter is still driving her arms even though her elbows are out.  I'm talking about those kids who don't drive their arms and one or both arms are either flopping at their side or they have T-Rex arms.

Apparently its not a well known fact that your arms propel your legs and the faster your arms swing the faster your legs move.


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## Surfref (Sep 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> Let me get this straight ... for the vast amount of H.S. in SoCal, the HS Season doesn't start until December with the first scrimmage sometime in mid-November.  My kid's HS will not have tryouts until Mid-October.  There are HS teams in SoCal (Southern Section) practicing now?  What division or schools are doing this now?
> 
> Edit: Central Section explicitly states practices can't start until October 29.


But, players can take soccer as their PE class and last class of the day.  They can legally do that and it is not considered practicing as a team before the official start of tryouts and practices.  There are ways around everything.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 21, 2018)

sweeperkeeper said:


> Seems like you are bypassing the person with the most skin in the game here, the athlete or the parent.  At some point they need to advocate for themselves and talk to the coaches what is going on.
> 
> There are some teams where the communication might be possible where there is one team/program feeding into a school (team A feeds into school A) but there are other areas where a team is feeding into multiple schools (team A into school A, B and C) or where you have multiple club teams going into a school (team A, B and C going to school A).  THEN you have to consider that HS teams have different levels (Frosh, JV, Varsity) who might have different schedules.  It is pretty unrealistic for use to expect that the coaches would have a pow wow each week to ensure your child isn't over training.
> 
> ...


Yep and you give them the ball once in while during training then maybe they can play in the World Cup.


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## MFranco (Sep 21, 2018)

E Dykes said:


> Its time to team up and work together.  I currently work with both a So Cal HS and a So Cal club and what I'm hearing going on within some programs is breaking our kids so lets get to it.
> 
> HS coaches- lay off the conditioning on Thurs & Fridays until the club season is over. As a club coach I have kids running 4/5 miles on Friday with their HS team and then they are asked to play top tier soccer with some playing 2 game that weekend. Not healthy for kids. I'm in charge of strength and condition at the HS I work at. I go light with mainly upper body work and mobility late in the week.
> 
> ...



I completely agree with all of this. Unfortunately ego gets in the way for many coaches because they have to win. As a club and HS coach I always tell my players to be honest with their coaches about how they are feeling. Everyone recovers different and if they feel burned out or tired they need to speak up. If they are upfront with a coach, usually the coach is understanding ( should be anyway)

As far as club players being in shape already once they get into the high school season isn't always true. Especially at the older age where teams carry 20-25 players and certain clubs will scratch some of those (healthy) players for guest players in league games so they can get another win. I also frequently get my varsity team back from club with multiple injuries because their club coaches run them even more towards the end of club fall season because they want to finish at the top or getting ready for national league and last couple years final games of CRL.

Our HS tryouts still wont be for another month and once we have teams selected the majority of our program is in club even at the frosh level.

That's why we will do yoga on Mondays to recover from weekend club games. Mix in strength training during the week along with some study hall, and some light soccer training. Knowing they will have club practice that night there really is no reason to run them to the ground because is increases injuries and they don't recover and they are not able to perform for either team.


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## focomoso (Sep 21, 2018)

sweeperkeeper said:


> Also, whomever said that running in a straight line "never" happens it full of BS.  How many recovery runs or overlaps are done in the game w/o the ball?


What I said was that running in a straight without reference to where the ball is never happens.


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## pulguita (Sep 21, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Her coach lets her ski/snowboard?
> My daughters team has had games every weekend from the middle of july through  early december, including labor day and thanksgiving weekends, as well as 2 out of state tournaments.
> Crazy how much they play and train.


College coach lets them ski or snowboard.


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## outside! (Sep 21, 2018)

Surfref said:


> But, players can take soccer as their PE class and last class of the day.  They can legally do that and it is not considered practicing as a team before the official start of tryouts and practices.  There are ways around everything.


Only at some schools. My kids school only has basketball PE due to the need for PE coaches to have teaching credentials and they do not have a PE coach that is qualified to coach soccer. It is not like soccer matters or anything.


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## Multi Sport (Sep 21, 2018)

espola said:


> Arrange a meeting with the coach and principal.  Declare to them that for your child's health, he/she will not be particip[ating in this nonsense.  If they don't agree, ask for the contact information of the district's lawyer.


Really? Might as well just not play HS then.


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## Multi Sport (Sep 21, 2018)

MFranco said:


> I completely agree with all of this. Unfortunately ego gets in the way for many coaches because they have to win. As a club and HS coach I always tell my players to be honest with their coaches about how they are feeling. Everyone recovers different and if they feel burned out or tired they need to speak up. If they are upfront with a coach, usually the coach is understanding ( should be anyway)
> 
> As far as club players being in shape already once they get into the high school season isn't always true. Especially at the older age where teams carry 20-25 players and certain clubs will scratch some of those (healthy) players for guest players in league games so they can get another win. I also frequently get my varsity team back from club with multiple injuries because their club coaches run them even more towards the end of club fall season because they want to finish at the top or getting ready for national league and last couple years final games of CRL.
> 
> ...


Just started doing Yoga w/ my kid at home. It ain't easy...


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## outside! (Sep 21, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Really? Might as well just not play HS then.


When DD played HS, her club season continued into December so she missed the first few HS games. The HS coach had the players still in club take it easy at practices.


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## Not_that_Serious (Sep 21, 2018)

Mom Taxi said:


> My DD runs cross country and she is a pretty talented runner, but her cross country coaches are forever frustrated by her “soccer arms” . They encourage her to tuck her elbows in to help increase her speed, but her elbows are always out.


THIS. My kid drives me nuts with his arms. Been trying for 4 years to help him...but kids loooove listening to their parents about these types of things. Most coaches dont have a background, even playing pro, to correct the arm swinging. Takes a track coach to modify that - had to talk to my kid's 8th grade PE teacher who coaches HS track to help correct his form.


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## Not_that_Serious (Sep 21, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Just started doing Yoga w/ my kid at home. It ain't easy...


Been trying to find a local place that does Yoga that isnt about inner Chi, or all females (my kid's hormone's couldnt take that visual overload), or run by some hardass who thinks her style is the greatest (cue kung fu voice). So its trying to do it at home and freak'n teens are the worse about doing things that are good for them but not "fun" and "boring". but they sure like to complain about slightly tight groins


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## outside! (Sep 21, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Been trying to find a local place that does Yoga that isnt about inner Chi, or all females (my kid's hormone's couldnt take that visual overload), or run by some hardass who thinks her style is the greatest (cue kung fu voice). So its trying to do it at home and freak'n teens are the worse about doing things that are good for them but not "fun" and "boring". but they sure like to complain about slightly tight groins


Maybe doing yoga with a bunch of females could be enough to make it not boring and as an added bonus help to teach him to be a mature adult male that is respectful of females.


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## MFranco (Sep 21, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Been trying to find a local place that does Yoga that isnt about inner Chi, or all females (my kid's hormone's couldnt take that visual overload), or run by some hardass who thinks her style is the greatest (cue kung fu voice). So its trying to do it at home and freak'n teens are the worse about doing things that are good for them but not "fun" and "boring". but they sure like to complain about slightly tight groins


Luckily I have an ex-player who is now a yoga instructor so she understands what is needed for soccer players. I agree teens aren't always the best at doing things that are good for them. You tell them to hydrate before games and next thing you know they get heat exhaustion and the first thing you ask if they hydrated usually the first answer is "um no not really"


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## Multi Sport (Sep 21, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Been trying to find a local place that does Yoga that isnt about inner Chi, or all females (my kid's hormone's couldnt take that visual overload), or run by some hardass who thinks her style is the greatest (cue kung fu voice). So its trying to do it at home and freak'n teens are the worse about doing things that are good for them but not "fun" and "boring". but they sure like to complain about slightly tight groins


I can't see paying to go somewhere to stretch. We do a lot of laughing, especially when I start to complain that I can't move like that. Bottom line is we get some stretching in and he is learning about proper posture and focus. Well, when we're not laughing...


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