# Well that lasted long....Pugh



## soccer4us (Apr 18, 2017)

https://www.google.com/amp/www.starsandstripesfc.com/platform/amp/2017/4/17/15335800/mal-pugh-going-pro-after-freshman-year-ucla


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## timbuck (Apr 18, 2017)

If she stays in college, could she still collect uswnt money?  
If yes, seems that would be the best of both worlds.


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## soccer4us (Apr 18, 2017)

timbuck said:


> If she stays in college, could she still collect uswnt money?
> If yes, seems that would be the best of both worlds.


No. You cannot receive a dime if in college still. My guess is this is overseas. They pay much more than nwsl for salary. You don't leave ucla for 50k a year


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## jojosoccer (Apr 18, 2017)

The article mentioned incoming 2017....anyone know how many and who are the in UCLA 2017 class?


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## PLSAP (Apr 18, 2017)

jojosoccer said:


> The article mentioned incoming 2017....anyone know how many and who are the in UCLA 2017 class?


I remember reading it somewhere, I can't remember where though


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 18, 2017)

timbuck said:


> If she stays in college, could she still collect uswnt money?
> If yes, seems that would be the best of both worlds.


There are only a couple of sports where you can receive money and retain amateur status.  Golf and tennis are the only two that come to mind and I think that it is because it is prize money won not a salary being paid that allows this exception.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 18, 2017)

PLSAP said:


> I remember reading it somewhere, I can't remember where though


https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/college-soccer/college-soccer-details/women/ucla/clgid-266/tab-commitments


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 18, 2017)

soccer4us said:


> No. You cannot receive a dime if in college still. My guess is this is overseas. They pay much more than nwsl for salary. You don't leave ucla for 50k a year


The new CBA changed the math for her.


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## Socalsoccer (Apr 18, 2017)

She's going for that Adidas or Nike money. Salary is just a bonus


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 18, 2017)

Socalsoccer said:


> She's going for that Adidas or Nike money. Salary is just a bonus


We will see what they offer.  I don't think that they will offer anything if she goes abroad.  The value for them is selling product domestically to little soccer girls out there dreaming of being like her someday.  In Europe it just isn't the same.  There aren't literally millions of parents like on this forum obsessively spending thousands of dollars on what amounts to a country club sport at the highest levels.  Not to mention that it only comes into our consciousness every 3 years.  Look at her twitter account and compare it to the USWNT girls that are making 6 figure endorsement deals.  Alex Morgan has over a 2 million followers and Tobin Heath's count is in the million plus range.  She has 46k.  She has a little way to go before they throw too much money her way although even a $1-2 million dollar deal over 4-5 years is some good coin.


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## soccer4us (Apr 18, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> We will see what they offer.  I don't think that they will offer anything if she goes abroad.  The value for them is selling product domestically to little soccer girls out there dreaming of being like her someday.  In Europe it just isn't the same.  There aren't literally millions of parents like on this forum obsessively spending thousands of dollars on what amounts to a country club sport at the highest levels.  Not to mention that it only comes into our consciousness every 3 years.  Look at her twitter account and compare it to the USWNT girls that are making 6 figure endorsement deals.  Alex Morgan has over a 2 million followers and Tobin Heath's count is in the million plus range.  She has 46k.  She has a little way to go before they throw too much money her way although even a $1-2 million dollar deal over 4-5 years is some good coin.


I agree. While Salary would be double or triple in some countries, the sponsors will want her in America. I'm curious how she'd do on a regular club team with just a few national team players compared to USA team where they are much better than majority of teams they play. I'm sure would still be pretty legit but a little different


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 18, 2017)

soccer4us said:


> I agree. While Salary would be double or triple in some countries, the sponsors will want her in America. I'm curious how she'd do on a regular club team with just a few national team players compared to USA team where they are much better than majority of teams they play. I'm sure would still be pretty legit but a little different


I wish her luck.


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## soccer4us (Apr 18, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I wish her luck.


Without question. Hope she does great wherever she lands.


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## NoGoal (Apr 18, 2017)

Socalsoccer said:


> She's going for that Adidas or Nike money. Salary is just a bonus


Pugh could have had that endorsement contract prior to UCLA as she was already considering turning pro prior to attending UCLA.  It's no coincidence that after the new US WNT collective bargaining agreement was finalized and announced last week, she then turns pro the week after.

There was a half-time interview during the 2nd game vs Russia in which a few of the US WNT players discussed the CBA.  They said, they were ALL in touch with each other and what they wanted.  Meaning Pugh also had a voice in what they wanted.


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## Mystery Train (Apr 19, 2017)

I always have mixed feelings when a kid in any sport foregoes college to turn pro.  On the one hand, I can't blame them.  If I'd had the opportunity to make 6 figures (or more) after one year of college working in my area of passion, I would have done it in a heartbeat, no second thoughts.  On the other hand, now that I'm a middle-aged parent with 25 more years of life experience, I recognize that those college years are such a fleeting golden age in life that money could never replace, and I wouldn't want my kids to miss a single moment of that part of life, no matter how much $$ was at stake.  Good luck to Pugh.  I'm sure UCLA won't miss a beat, but it would have been fun to see her stay.


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## Sheriff Joe (Apr 19, 2017)

Mystery Train said:


> I always have mixed feelings when a kid in any sport foregoes college to turn pro.  On the one hand, I can't blame them.  If I'd had the opportunity to make 6 figures (or more) after one year of college working in my area of passion, I would have done it in a heartbeat, no second thoughts.  On the other hand, now that I'm a middle-aged parent with 25 more years of life experience, I recognize that those college years are such a fleeting golden age in life that money could never replace, and I wouldn't want my kids to miss a single moment of that part of life, no matter how much $$ was at stake.  Good luck to Pugh.  I'm sure UCLA won't miss a beat, but it would have been fun to see her stay.


They just might miss her, she's pretty good.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 19, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> They just might miss her, she's pretty good.


Yeah they will miss her but she only appeared 3 times for them.  The team was and is built around Fleming.  They have another scorer coming in plus a few other pieces and will be fine.  Their coach is outstanding and she isn't working with subpar pieces.  Que sera sera.


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## Sheriff Joe (Apr 19, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Yeah they will miss her but she only appeared 3 times for them.  The team was and is built around Fleming.  They have another scorer coming in plus a few other pieces and will be fine.  Their coach is outstanding and she isn't working with subpar pieces.  Que sera sera.


I haven't seen her play very much, just a few times on the national team, but the way everyone talks about her I just assumed she would be missed, the last few time I watched her she didn't seem to be on.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 19, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> I haven't seen her play very much, just a few times on the national team, but the way everyone talks about her I just assumed she would be missed, the last few time I watched her she didn't seem to be on.


She is the real deal.  They have another player that is as good but doesn't have as lucrative an opportunity as the US CBA provides.  She will be sorely missed.  They will be fine #FIRSTWORLDPROBLEMS.


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## soccerobserver (Apr 19, 2017)

MSFT founder Bill Gates and Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg both dropped out of a college in Cambridge Mass to pursue their dreams...for certain people it's the right decision...staying in college is too expensive for certain few folks...


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 19, 2017)

soccerobserver said:


> MSFT founder Bill Gates and Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg both dropped out of a college in Cambridge Mass to pursue their dreams...for certain people it's the right decision...staying in college is too expensive for certain few folks...



I agree with you wholeheartedly.  The truth is though that those two are unicorns.  Gates had mommy's money and connections and some brilliant classmates.  Not to mention he recognized that the Xerox platform that was the basis for windows was the future and getting them to give it to him was brilliant.  Zuckerberg stole someone's idea and was able to make it work.  He's lucky that they took the 8 figure settlement and didn't realize the true potential of their own idea.


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## jsmaxwell (Apr 21, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I agree with you wholeheartedly.  The truth is though that those two are unicorns.  Gates had mommy's money and connections and some brilliant classmates.  Not to mention he recognized that the Xerox platform that was the basis for windows was the future and getting them to give it to him was brilliant.  Zuckerberg stole someone's idea and was able to make it work.  He's lucky that they took the 8 figure settlement and didn't realize the true potential of their own idea.


That was Jobs who went to Xerox PARC and then put the GUI in the Mac. Microsoft was selling MS-DOS until Windows was copied from the Mac. 

As for anyone else bringing up Gates, Zuckerberg, Dell or whoever for leaving or not going to college, its not relevant unless you are comparing them to someone else who already has a massive alternative opportunity. None of those guys just "left". Gates took the biggest flyer, but he didn't quit school until after Microsoft was going. He took a leave of absence. Zuckerberg had FB already going and left because VC was offering him life changing money in a booming industry. Dell was already running his business out of his UT dorm room. None of them left a scholarship behind. 

Pugh is giving up significant value in dumping that scholarship. It will work out for her if she gets significant endorsements.  The soccer pay isn't worth it. If she just ends up as a good player on the USWNT, its may not be worth it. If it doesn't work out, she can always go back to school, and its not necessary to spend big tuition to get a college education. Playing internationally is even more unique an experience than going to college, so from a life experience standpoint, why not?


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 21, 2017)

jsmaxwell said:


> Pugh is giving up significant value in dumping that scholarship. It will work out for her if she gets significant endorsements.  The soccer pay isn't worth it. If she just ends up as a good player on the USWNT, its may not be worth it. If it doesn't work out, she can always go back to school, and its not necessary to spend big tuition to get a college education. Playing internationally is even more unique an experience than going to college, so from a life experience standpoint, why not?


I want to focus on this part of your post.  If she stays domestically and gets $1-$2 million then this is a moot point.  Financially it will be worth it any way you slice it.  Even if she gets $0 in endorsements because she plays overseas her national team pay will be around $165-$200k plus another $100k or so to play abroad.  In the 4 years that she would spend at UCLA she would be giving up over a million dollars plus extra money due to 2019/20 having an Olympics and a WWC which would boost her income another $100k each of those years assuming she didn't get a penny of endorsement money.  If she couldn't find a way to save $200k (she is an out of state student) in the 4-5 years then I don't know that it would matter anyway.


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## soccerobserver (Apr 21, 2017)

jsmaxwell said:


> That was Jobs who went to Xerox PARC and then put the GUI in the Mac. Microsoft was selling MS-DOS until Windows was copied from the Mac.
> 
> 
> 
> Pugh is giving up significant value in dumping that scholarship. It will work out for her if she gets significant endorsements.  The soccer pay isn't worth it. If she just ends up as a good player on the USWNT, its may not be worth it. If it doesn't work out, she can always go back to school, and its not necessary to spend big tuition to get a college education. Playing internationally is even more unique an experience than going to college, so from a life experience standpoint, why not?


JsMaximus...you make some good points, however, I agree with MAP and I would add that MP is not being "given" a scholarship by UCLA...she is actually working for it and might be under-compensated by the UCLA "scholarship"...

By entering the workforce now MP will capture all of her own "value-added" while she is a hot topic and has all of her physical and technical momentum going for her...she is not letting her "schooling" interfere with her "education"...indeed for her "education" she will be learning how to become a world class soccer player and she will be educated on how to market herself domestically and internationally, how to promote herself on digital media, negotiate endorsements, hire and evaluate agents, attorneys etc etc...her lernin will be focused on her soccer career and won't stop just because she is not attending classes at UCLA that she is paying for with her own sweat...


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 21, 2017)

soccerobserver said:


> JsMaximus...you make some good points, however, I agree with MAP and I would add that MP is not being "given" a scholarship by UCLA...she is actually working for it and might be under-compensated by the UCLA "scholarship"...
> 
> By entering the workforce now MP will capture all of her own "value-added" while she is a hot topic and has all of her physical and technical momentum going for her...she is not letting her "schooling" interfere with her "education"...indeed for her "education" she will be learning how to become a world class soccer player and she will be educated on how to market herself domestically and internationally, how to promote herself on digital media, negotiate endorsements, hire and evaluate agents, attorneys etc etc...her lernin will be focused on her soccer career and won't stop just because she is not attending classes at UCLA that she is paying for with her own sweat...


I agree.  I am as bummed as any outside of her coach and teammates that she left.  But, I understand and wish her all of the luck in the world.  I am not mad at Lonzo Ball, TJ Leaf or Ike Anibogu going out early for the NBA draft as they will all be first round picks.  I won't be mad after Josh Rosen leaves early for the NFL draft. It is what it is.


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## LASTMAN14 (Apr 21, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I agree.  I am as bummed as any outside of her coach and teammates that she left.  But, I understand and wish her all of the luck in the world.  I am not mad at Lonzo Ball, TJ Leaf or Ike Anibogu going out early for the NBA draft as they will all be first round picks.  I won't be mad after Josh Rosen leaves early for the NFL draft. It is what it is.


JR leaving is in the best interest for UCLA. If only Wayne Cook had another year of eligibility.


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## Sheriff Joe (Apr 21, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I want to focus on this part of your post.  If she stays domestically and gets $1-$2 million then this is a moot point.  Financially it will be worth it any way you slice it.  Even if she gets $0 in endorsements because she plays overseas her national team pay will be around $165-$200k plus another $100k or so to play abroad.  In the 4 years that she would spend at UCLA she would be giving up over a million dollars plus extra money due to 2019/20 having an Olympics and a WWC which would boost her income another $100k each of those years assuming she didn't get a penny of endorsement money.  If she couldn't find a way to save $200k (she is an out of state student) in the 4-5 years then I don't know that it would matter anyway.


An important fact of an athletes' life is injury, one never knows.


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## outside! (Apr 21, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I agree.  I am as bummed as any outside


Huh? I'm not bummed. 

I agree with you and wish her luck. I am excited that what she is doing is even possible for a female player. I hope there are more opportunities in the future, and if there are it will be thanks to women like her.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 21, 2017)

outside! said:


> Huh? I'm not bummed.
> 
> I agree with you and wish her luck. I am excited that what she is doing is even possible for a female player. I hope there are more opportunities in the future, and if there are it will be thanks to women like her.


I didn't say that you were bummed.  I said I agree (meaning with your statement).  I then started another thought/sentence that was only connected to the prior statements due to linguistic convenience.

I am as bummed as anyone who isn't a coach or player for the team is.  Does that make more sense?


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## outside! (Apr 21, 2017)

Sorry MAP, I was just being a smart ass. It comes naturally.


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## Glen (Apr 21, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> Pugh could have had that endorsement contract prior to UCLA as she was already considering turning pro prior to attending UCLA.  It's no coincidence that after the new US WNT collective bargaining agreement was finalized and announced last week, she then turns pro the week after.
> 
> There was a half-time interview during the 2nd game vs Russia in which a few of the US WNT players discussed the CBA.  They said, they were ALL in touch with each other and what they wanted.  Meaning Pugh also had a voice in what they wanted.


NG, where is the moral outrage that Pugh committed to UCLA only to leave?  She took someone else's spot only to move onto something (perhaps) better.  You must be aghast.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 21, 2017)

Glen said:


> NG, where is the moral outrage that Pugh committed to UCLA only to leave?  She took someone else's spot only to move onto something (perhaps) better.  You must be aghast.


She committed, was attending and the new CBA changed the calculus.  What is there to be outraged about?  Would you coach one of your players to do something different?  What about your niece?


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## Glen (Apr 21, 2017)

I would do the same thing.  I was just teasing.  New opportunities come up for everyone, at all levels.  I guess that's the point.


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## NoGoal (Apr 21, 2017)

Glen said:


> I would do the same thing.  I was just teasing.  New opportunities come up for everyone, at all levels.  I guess that's the point.


150-200K player salary plus another 400-500K from a Nike or Adidas endorsement deal speaks volumes.  She will be making 550-700K a year for the next 4-5 years.  Not shabby for a 19 yr old.  I hope she invests wisely though.


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## soccer4us (Apr 21, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> 150-200K player salary plus another 400-500K from a Nike or Adidas endorsement deal speaks volumes.  She will be making 550-700K a year for the next 4-5 years.  Not shabby for a 19 yr old.  I hope she invests wisely though.


I agree, it's a smart move. I'm sure UCLA classes weren't too exciting for her also. I'm still curious how she does vs top 5 in the world. Watching her in the u20 World Cup, I wasn't that impressed. Maybe it was because of the media hype I expected that next coming of Mia Hamm. That being said, the quality of that team compared to full national is night and day. While Ellis may play her a lot, I still rate Morgan, Heath, and Dunn ahead of her today. At worst, great off the bench option in big games.


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## NoGoal (Apr 21, 2017)

soccer4us said:


> I agree, it's a smart move. I'm sure UCLA classes weren't too exciting for her also. I'm still curious how she does vs top 5 in the world. Watching her in the u20 World Cup, I wasn't that impressed. Maybe it was because of the media hype I expected that next coming of Mia Hamm. That being said, the quality of that team compared to full national is night and day. While Ellis may play her a lot, I still rate Morgan, Heath, and Dunn ahead of her today. At worst, great off the bench option in big games.


Alex Morgan hasn't been the same player, because of injuries the last few years. Tobin Heath is a midfielder and both are almost a decade older than Pugh.  I think we forget Pugh is only 18 years old and by the 2019 WWC will barely be old enough to drink legally.


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## Kicker4Life (Apr 21, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> Alex Morgan hasn't been the same player, because of injuries the last few years. Tobin Heath is a midfielder and both are almost a decade older than Pugh.  I think we forget Pugh is only 18 years old and by the 2019 WWC will barely be old enough to drink legally.


No, that didn't hurt one bit to agree with you. I honestly believe we see eye to eye, we only disagree on the delivery.


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## soccer4us (Apr 22, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> Alex Morgan hasn't been the same player, because of injuries the last few years. Tobin Heath is a midfielder and both are almost a decade older than Pugh.  I think we forget Pugh is only 18 years old and by the 2019 WWC will barely be old enough to drink legally.


AM has dropped 1/2 level since then. I think going to France will help her. Depending on formation, Heath is a mid. With 3 in the back, that's correct. Pugh has a good future for sure and frankly by then, we'll probably need her to be at least solid. Hope she's a star especially after dropping out of school


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## Soccer43 (Apr 22, 2017)

Are they going to save a spot for her at UCLA or does she not really care about going to school there?  Just because you have cash to pay for your education I don't think that means you automatically get accepted to the school.   I think she got into UCLA because she was going to play soccer there.  Did she have the grades and SAT scores to get in without that?  I don't know how it would work for someone in her situation so maybe she would be welcomed back without difficulty to return to her education.  

Yes, there are many stories of famous/wealthy people that didn't need college.  And one doesn't have to go to UCLA to get a good education.  It is a dream for many though to go to that school, a dream that is unobtainable for many because it is so difficult to get accepted to the school.  

Everyone has to find their own path and making a few million dollars might be of value to some over all else and maybe not for others.  I hope she stays healthy and has a great time playing the beautiful game.  I hope it turns out to be what she hoped for.  I am sure it will be more fun that sweating through finals in the quarter system.  

One thing I have learned from years in the soccer system is that every player is replaceable.  One may think a team can't survive if a particular player leaves the team but when there is an opening there are at least another 10 lined up behind to fill that spot and the team goes on.   UCLA will get along without her.


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