# DA and ECNL



## Desert Hound

I have seen a few people comment that this coming year ECNL might force clubs to choose between on or the other vs having both. 

Anyone hear or know anything?


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## GoWest

I have not. I have heard there may be a couple new markets opening up for DA in the southwest.


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## Kicker4Life

I highly doubt they would make ALL the Clubs choose!  I mean, do you really think they would make Surf choose?

I mean I don’t think ECNL is in a position to push the agenda right now do you?  If they were smart, they would be looking to add a Club in northern LA County to serve all the kids  (‘03 and above) who will be cut from DA next season with the age banding. If they don’t or are not considering it, DPL sure has a chance to gain a lot of strength in its second year IF they get their shit together. 

Someone needs to look at the void!  Who will it be?


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## Monkey

Kicker4Life said:


> I highly doubt they would make ALL the Clubs choose!  I mean, do you really think they would make Surf choose?
> 
> I mean I don’t think ECNL is in a position to push the agenda right now do you?  If they were smart, they would be looking to add a Club in northern LA County to serve all the kids  (‘03 and above) who will be cut from DA next season with the age banding. If they don’t or are not considering it, DPL sure has a chance to gain a lot of strength in its second year IF they get their shit together.
> 
> Someone needs to look at the void!  Who will it be?


Maybe someone from NorCal can chime in.  I thought some clubs up there were given an ultimatum.


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## Kicker4Life

Monkey said:


> Maybe someone from NorCal can chime in.  I thought some clubs up there were given an ultimatum.


I’m not saying that it isn’t possible they wouldn’t give certain Clubs an ultimatum.


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## GoWest

Kicker4Life said:


> If they were smart, they would be looking to add a Club in northern LA County to serve all the kids (‘03 and above) who will be cut from DA next season with the age banding.


Agree that is a great point. To give that geographic area an ECNL option would be great. Hopefully, ECNL leadership are thinking along those same lines.


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## GoWest

Desert Hound said:


> I have seen a few people comment that this coming year ECNL might force clubs to choose between on or the other vs having both.
> 
> Anyone hear or know anything?


According to a DOC from a very successful DA and ECNL club, ECNL is not forcing clubs to choose one over the other to retain ECNL membership.


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## Kicker4Life

GoWest said:


> According to a DOC from a very successful DA and ECNL club, ECNL is not forcing clubs to choose one over the other to retain ECNL membership.


I believe they have or are trying to force the choice but are learning they will come out on the loosing side.  I hope that the ECNL powers that be look to expand membership in areas with a void as that will help out a lot of ‘03’s and would spell the end for DPL.


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## Ghostwriter

ECNL loss the war with DA but they could survive as the best 2nd tier league in the nation and market it as an alternative to DA for kids who want to play HS sports.  If I were ECNL I would offer ECNL to all DA clubs and hope DA stays with combined age groups. This way ECNL would always be strong on the younger year of the DA combined age groups.  This would eliminate the need for DPL and you could offer the top players and those willing to sacarfice 4 nights a week DA and the very good players who are on the younger side of the combined DA age groups and those that want to play HS sports ECNL. Could be a win win situation.


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## Soccer

Desert Hound said:


> I have seen a few people comment that this coming year ECNL might force clubs to choose between on or the other vs having both.
> 
> Anyone hear or know anything?


Based on last nights meeting looks like they are giving cubs (especially those with DA/ECNL) a three year reprieve to make the ECNL teams better.  There is a 3 year “Objective Standard”.


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## Soccer

Oh and they added U13.


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## Soccer43

Ghostwriter said:


> ECNL loss the war with DA but they could survive as the best 2nd tier league in the nation and market it as an alternative to DA for kids who want to play HS sports.  If I were ECNL I would offer ECNL to all DA clubs and hope DA stays with combined age groups. This way ECNL would always be strong on the younger year of the DA combined age groups.  This would eliminate the need for DPL and you could offer the top players and those willing to sacarfice 4 nights a week DA and the very good players who are on the younger side of the combined DA age groups and those that want to play HS sports ECNL. Could be a win win situation.


 Not so sure the battle is over.  If US Soccer keeps calling up girls from ECNL teams that also have a DA team at that same club then parents are going to quit DA.  Why give up and sacrifice everything as a high school girl when there is no purpose for that level of required commitment?


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## Ghostwriter

Soccer43 said:


> Not so sure the battle is over.  If US Soccer keeps calling up girls from ECNL teams that also have a DA team at that same club then parents are going to quit DA.  Why give up and sacrifice everything as a high school girl when there is no purpose for that level of required commitment?


Interesting perspective. First it's great US Soccer is calling up players from multiple leagues as no one league has all the top players.  2nd DA other than one outliner in the 01/02 age group is the A team or top team in every DA/ECNL combo club.  3rd players and parents should be thankful that there are other leagues besides DA as it is highly demanding and competitive and it's not for everyone.  Finally you imply that because US Soccer is drawing kids from ECNL still and that somehow that will change the landscape again.  I would argue that has nothing to do with any landscape, as a fraction of those players less than 1% of all club players get called to play for the US or other National Teams, it doesn't factor as a pro or con where those Players get called from.  Players that play DA are doing so because they want to compete at the most competitive arena and not because US Soccer might call them up. DA is here and will be the top teams in every DA Club, ECNL will be a great 2nd team and a place a few kids that want to play HS soccer can go and compete.  Hopefully US Soccer and other Nations looking for the 1% look at every league as great individual players can be found anywhere.


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## Soccer43

You make some good points but don't agree with some of your comments.  I am not arguing about which team is or should be the best at a DA/ECNL club.  I am talking about top players that would have preferred to stay in ECNL and have a life and other opportunities but were pressured into moving to a DA team because they were told if you don't you will not be scouted.  If you don't have a player in the DA you may not realize the increased level of sacrifice that has been required of these girls- I think many are watching and evaluating this for next year


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## Desert Hound

Soccer43 said:


> You make some good points but don't agree with some of your comments.  I am not arguing about which team is or should be the best at a DA/ECNL club.  I am talking about top players that would have preferred to stay in ECNL and have a life and other opportunities but were pressured into moving to a DA team because they were told if you don't you will not be scouted.  If you don't have a player in the DA you may not realize the increased level of sacrifice that has been required of these girls- I think many are watching and evaluating this for next year


I am betting that there will not be large numbers of top players that decide to forgo DA to play ECNL. Will there be some? Absolutely. However the vast vast majority will stay in a league where they play the best competition.


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## Ghostwriter

Soccer43 said:


> Not so sure the battle is over.  If US Soccer keeps calling up girls from ECNL teams that also have a DA team at that same club then parents are going to quit DA.  Why give up and sacrifice everything as a high school girl when there is no purpose for that level of required commitment?



This is what I was responding to.  You clearly state you don't think the battle is over between ECNL and DA. Your two points were why stay in DA when you can be called to the National Youth team from ECNL and why give up and sacarfice everything as HS girl?  I simply answered the 1st as less than 1% get called to a Youth National Team so it's a non-factor and as far as giving up everything as HS girl I am sure many love DA, their teammates, and are enjoying their HS years.  The few that choose not to partake on the demanding DA schedule will play ECNL, DPL, SCDSL, CSL etc.  My point was that the war between DA and ECNL is over because the clubs chose to put DA as their top product.


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## Lambchop

Ghostwriter said:


> Interesting perspective. First it's great US Soccer is calling up players from multiple leagues as no one league has all the top players.  2nd DA other than one outliner in the 01/02 age group is the A team or top team in every DA/ECNL combo club.  3rd players and parents should be thankful that there are other leagues besides DA as it is highly demanding and competitive and it's not for everyone.  Finally you imply that because US Soccer is drawing kids from ECNL still and that somehow that will change the landscape again.  I would argue that has nothing to do with any landscape, as a fraction of those players less than 1% of all club players get called to play for the US or other National Teams, it doesn't factor as a pro or con where those Players get called from.  Players that play DA are doing so because they want to compete at the most competitive arena and not because US Soccer might call them up. DA is here and will be the top teams in every DA Club, ECNL will be a great 2nd team and a place a few kids that want to play HS soccer can go and compete.  Hopefully US Soccer and other Nations looking for the 1% look at every league as great individual players can be found anywhere.


After watching some of the US National team games, not sure they have the top 1%.  They may be politically correct but don't necessarily have the top 1% or even 2%.  There is a lot of talent out there, some get called to National camp,  but for whatever reason, pc, coaches recommendations   etc. etc. etc. there are many others who are just as talented and maybe even more so who are not being called into National camps for evaluation. Always interesting.


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## Kicker4Life

Soccer43 said:


> You make some good points but don't agree with some of your comments.  I am not arguing about which team is or should be the best at a DA/ECNL club.  I am talking about top players that would have preferred to stay in ECNL and have a life and other opportunities but were pressured into moving to a DA team because they were told if you don't you will not be scouted.  If you don't have a player in the DA you may not realize the increased level of sacrifice that has been required of these girls- I think many are watching and evaluating this for next year


I think you are overlooking the fact that many of the ‘03’s and above were ECNL players prior to this season. So maybe they were already top US Soccer prospects going into this new cycle and these players simply decided the best situation for them was to remain on their current teams.


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## Fact

Lambchop said:


> After watching some of the US National team games, not sure they have the top 1%.  They may be politically correct but don't necessarily have the top 1% or even 2%.  There is a lot of talent out there, some get called to National camp,  but for whatever reason, pc, coaches recommendations   etc. etc. etc. there are many others who are just as talented and maybe even more so who are not being called into National camps for evaluation. Always interesting.


What's new?


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## pitchplease

If you look at the u15 gnt roster for this training camp....they only called in 4 new players to the camp...one in each position. The ecnl girls, they were at several of the camps last year. They aren't "new" and the 4 new call ups, all came from DA.


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## Soccer43

You are all somewhat missing the point.  US Soccer started the DA to create a consistent, cohesive training protocol and curriculum to support a specific playing style while monitoring the quality and training of the coaching staff.  Yes, I know that isn't the real reason but that is what they have presented.  If they have a specific style of play and want to have consistency in the training approach and think that is the best then why are they not pushing the girls of interest to participate in their system?  I do know several girls that have been called up often did leave their teams and moved to a DA team but several have chosen to snub the system.  If it is important to US Soccer to set up this environment then why are they not insisting that the players they are calling up are getting the training year round that they have decided is the best?


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## espola

Soccer43 said:


> You are all somewhat missing the point.  US Soccer started the DA to create a consistent, cohesive training protocol and curriculum to support a specific playing style while monitoring the quality and training of the coaching staff.  Yes, I know that isn't the real reason but that is what they have presented.  If they have a specific style of play and want to have consistency in the training approach and think that is the best then why are they not pushing the girls of interest to participate in their system?  I do know several girls that have been called up often did leave their teams and moved to a DA team but several have chosen to snub the system.  If it is important to US Soccer to set up this environment then why are they not insisting that the players they are calling up are getting the training year round that they have decided is the best?


We can see how well that worked out on the men's side.  Should we expect the girls to do any better?


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## Kicker4Life

Soccer43 said:


> You are all somewhat missing the point.  US Soccer started the DA to create a consistent, cohesive training protocol and curriculum to support a specific playing style while monitoring the quality and training of the coaching staff.  Yes, I know that isn't the real reason but that is what they have presented.  If they have a specific style of play and want to have consistency in the training approach and think that is the best then why are they not pushing the girls of interest to participate in their system?  I do know several girls that have been called up often did leave their teams and moved to a DA team but several have chosen to snub the system.  If it is important to US Soccer to set up this environment then why are they not insisting that the players they are calling up are getting the training year round that they have decided is the best?


no....I think we all get the point you are consistently reiterating.  Just don’t agree.


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## SBFDad

Soccer43 said:


> You make some good points but don't agree with some of your comments.  I am not arguing about which team is or should be the best at a DA/ECNL club.  I am talking about top players that would have preferred to stay in ECNL and have a life and other opportunities but were pressured into moving to a DA team because they were told if you don't you will not be scouted.  If you don't have a player in the DA you may not realize the increased level of sacrifice that has been required of these girls- I think many are watching and evaluating this for next year


Good discussion here. Aside from the ability to play in HS, curious what else you see as add’l sacrifices players make when choosing DA over ECNL. It’s an honest question as I don’t know enough about ECNL and how it differs from DA.


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## MWN

Real Deal said:


> By expanding the YNT program to more teams,  it may be possible to find and develop better players.  If you triple your bet, you have better odds of winning the jackpot.


@Real Deal, I agree and have made the following point over a few pints to my buddies:

Population of Spain: 46M 
Population of Italy:  60M
Population of England:  66M
Population of France:  67M
Population of Germany: 83M 
Population of USA: 323M

Some quick 3rd grade math tells us that we can fit 7 Spain's, 6 England's, or 4 Germany's (rounding up) in the US, so the idea of having 4, 5 or 7 National Teams within the population size of the US is sound.  Of course, FIFA only allows us 1, however, I have long believed that we put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage by not effectively taking advantage of our size and the current model can be improved.  At the Youth level, have 6 National Youth Training Centers that are treated somewhat autonomously (but follow the training/style of play of the YNT director) and draw from pools of 50 million would allow us to increase our odds of finding and training good talent.  Each of these Regional - National Training Centers would strictly focus on their regions and draw from the DA, ODP, ECNL, NPL and other programs operating in the region.  The final YNT's would draw from these Regional teams.


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## espola

MWN said:


> @Real Deal, I agree and have made the following point over a few pints to my buddies:
> 
> Population of Spain: 46M
> Population of Italy:  60M
> Population of England:  66M
> Population of France:  67M
> Population of Germany: 83M
> Population of USA: 323M
> 
> Some quick 3rd grade math tells us that we can fit 7 Spain's, 6 England's, or 4 Germany's (rounding up) in the US, so the idea of having 4, 5 or 7 National Teams within the population size of the US is sound.  Of course, FIFA only allows us 1, however, I have long believed that we put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage by not effectively taking advantage of our size and the current model can be improved.  At the Youth level, have 6 National Youth Training Centers that are treated somewhat autonomously (but follow the training/style of play of the YNT director) and draw from pools of 50 million would allow us to increase our odds of finding and training good talent.  Each of these Regional - National Training Centers would strictly focus on their regions and draw from the DA, ODP, ECNL, NPL and other programs operating in the region.  The final YNT's would draw from these Regional teams.


UK has FIFA teams from England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.  Maybe we should ask for similar treatment.


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## Real Deal

Here


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## Real Deal

Soccer43 said:


> You are all somewhat missing the point.  US Soccer started the DA to create a consistent, cohesive training protocol and curriculum to support a specific playing style while monitoring the quality and training of the coaching staff.  Yes, I know that isn't the real reason but that is what they have presented.  If they have a specific style of play and want to have consistency in the training approach and think that is the best then why are they not pushing the girls of interest to participate in their system?  I do know several girls that have been called up often did leave their teams and moved to a DA team but several have chosen to snub the system.  If it is important to US Soccer to set up this environment then why are they not insisting that the players they are calling up are getting the training year round that they have decided is the best?


Here was my post I was just meaning to edit.  I like your idea of regional teams also, but those too should be fluid I think @MWN   Kids change between 12 and 18:

I just don't understand why they can't funnel in more players. The core group is id'd so young (12,13) and then remain basically the same group. These players are all certainly top talent, but with the exception of 1 or 2 truly gifted prodigies, who come along every 4 or 5 years, some these spots are also highly subjective and could probably be held by other talented players out there as well. Again, it's a massive country! The prodigies are obvious. But the best role players may not be. So why not incorporate more players by having multiple YNT teams? (YNT2 and 3maybe)? In this way, they'd maybe find some better options for the role players on the team-- because-- since this is a team sport after all, they must be the very, very best also. As an old band conductor once said, "The band is only as good as the worst player on it." So that player better be pretty good.

By expanding the YNT program to more teams, it may be possible to find and develop better players. If you triple your bet, you have better odds of winning the jackpot.


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## Dos Equis

They used to have regional teams — it was called ODP.  ECNL promoted its demise, and USSDA put the nails in the coffin. While I still like the idea of regional teams, ironic to see this proposed on this thread.


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## MWN

Dos Equis said:


> They used to have regional teams — it was called ODP.  ECNL promoted its demise, and USSDA put the nails in the coffin. While I still like the idea of regional teams, ironic to see this proposed on this thread.


We still have ODP, but it has always been just an All Star team from the various US Youth Soccer States.  The historical problem with ODP was that it was a State Association program, which meant its quality and cost was subject to each State's ODP financial ability and talent pool.  In SoCal, Cal South covered a good amount of costs, in Montana, New Mexico, Idaho, and other states ... the parents.  ODP teams get together for a few days of training (as a team) and then are released to their respective clubs until they come together for the tournament.  They don't train like the DA or an ECNL or a Club team for that matter, it isn't designed to develop players, rather, bring already developed elite players together to play against other State's ODP programs.

Its important to remember that we are in a constant state of evolution.  ODP is been relegated to the back burner with the DA for now and will remain there because it was never intended as an actual development program.  The other flaw is because ODP teams are "State" based, certain states, such as, Alaska can't compete against the stronger States, such as, Cal South.  As such, some real talented kids in those weaker states are left behind.

Ultimately, I look at it this way:
1) The US doesn't have a strong Pro system because of our immature soccer culture.  A strong Pro system would include multiple financially stable tiers.
2) We won't have a strong Pro system (including the 2nd and 3rd tiers) because the USSF has removed financial incentives by refusing to pass through Solidarity and Training Fees.  The only incentive goes to MLS teams under the "homegrown" program.
3) In light of 1 and 2, in order to keep talented players on the "elite" player track, USSF must take youth development seriously.  The establishment of a the DA is a good first step, but given the size of the US, we will miss talent under the current system.  
4) We need to have a middle residential layer between DA teams and YNT that is funded by US Soccer and not the clubs AND incentivize the Clubs for moving players to the middle layer.


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## shales1002

Soccer43 said:


> You are all somewhat missing the point.  US Soccer started the DA to create a consistent, cohesive training protocol and curriculum to support a specific playing style while monitoring the quality and training of the coaching staff.  Yes, I know that isn't the real reason but that is what they have presented.  If they have a specific style of play and want to have consistency in the training approach and think that is the best then why are they not pushing the girls of interest to participate in their system?  I do know several girls that have been called up often did leave their teams and moved to a DA team but several have chosen to snub the system.  If it is important to US Soccer to set up this environment then why are they not insisting that the players they are calling up are getting the training year round that they have decided is the best?


 Those that have been called up , also don't necessarily have a DA team in 75 mile radius.  It does happen more than some realize.


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## Soccer43

SBFDad said:


> Good discussion here. Aside from the ability to play in HS, curious what else you see as add’l sacrifices players make when choosing DA over ECNL. It’s an honest question as I don’t know enough about ECNL and how it differs from DA.


unable to participate in other soccer events like ODP  ID2, PDP; no other HS sports allowed;  4 nights a week practice creates difficulty with keeping up with homework/studying for exams;  no free time for other high school activities during the week, no time to support friends in their sporting events during the week,   physical wear and tear on the body and risk of injury if not insisting on recovery and breaks with over zealous coaches - those are a few I can think of off the top of my head.


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## Real Deal

Soccer43 said:


> unable to participate in other soccer events like ODP  ID2, PDP; no other HS sports allowed;  4 nights a week practice creates difficulty with keeping up with homework/studying for exams;  no free time for other high school activities during the week, no time to support friends in their sporting events during the week,   physical wear and tear on the body and risk of injury if not insisting on recovery and breaks with over zealous coaches - those are a few I can think of off the top of my head.


That's funny, I don't think they play enough!  One game a weekend is less than we've ever played, and i think they need more actually.  If you have a kid who practices skills constantly, it just doesn't feel like enough.  I sincerely wish just one day of practice was actually mandated as an organized scrimmage or futsal.  Little less practice, little more play maybe? But what do I know, I'm not an expert.


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## Kicker4Life

Soccer43 said:


> unable to participate in other soccer events like ODP  ID2, PDP; no other HS sports allowed;  4 nights a week practice creates difficulty with keeping up with homework/studying for exams;  no free time for other high school activities during the week, no time to support friends in their sporting events during the week,   physical wear and tear on the body and risk of injury if not insisting on recovery and breaks with over zealous coaches - those are a few I can think of off the top of my head.


This is not even close to our experience in DA. I’ll go out on a limb and guess that your DD does not play DA?


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## Striker17

Soccer43 said:


> unable to participate in other soccer events like ODP  ID2, PDP; no other HS sports allowed;  4 nights a week practice creates difficulty with keeping up with homework/studying for exams;  no free time for other high school activities during the week, no time to support friends in their sporting events during the week,   physical wear and tear on the body and risk of injury if not insisting on recovery and breaks with over zealous coaches - those are a few I can think of off the top of my head.


I may be mistaken but it was my understanding they can play high school socccer until 2021. At that point they can't without a waiver but everyone is getting a waiver that I know and we do not plan on missing high school soccer. 
Also they are free to play other sports. We have found exceptions are being made for our daughter to continue her other pursuits. I bring it up because I think each case is unique so don't rule out DA based on your perception of restrictions related to other sports.


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## MWN

espola said:


> UK has FIFA teams from England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.  Maybe we should ask for similar treatment.


Similar treatment for the US is:

American Samoa.
Guam.
Northern Mariana Islands.
Puerto Rico.
United States Virgin Islands.


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## Soccer43

You couldn't be more wrong - my DD has played at the highest level of soccer for years including DA this year so you are way off base.  Besides, if she was not in the DA I wouldn't care.

It looks like clubs are handling this differently and it is up to the coach/DOC.  Not all DA players have the flexibility and freedom you are talking about to do those other activities.  It isn't my "perception" of restrictions - these are the restrictions.


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## Striker17

Soccer43 said:


> You couldn't be more wrong - my DD has played at the highest level of soccer for years including DA this year so you are way off base.  Besides, if she was not in the DA I wouldn't care.
> 
> It looks like clubs are handling this differently and it is up to the coach/DOC.  Not all DA players have the flexibility and freedom you are talking about to do those other activities.  It isn't my "perception" of restrictions - these are the restrictions.


High school soccer can be played until 2021- that's clear and not up to a DOC. 
At no place in any literature does it say your daughter cannot participate in other sports. If you have someone who is telling you otherwise they are wrong. 
It is up to you to fulfill DA obligations and I think that in our case getting people involved and also the other sports Coaches involved in the discussion was beneficial. There was no resistance when all parties came together. 
At the end of the day multi sport athletes are happier, less prone to overuse injury and stay in sports longer and that is research based. I know this isn't a popular opinion.
I would agree having a DOC or coach who is open to discussion is paramount. However knowing the rules and loopholes is an added bonus as well.


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## Soccer43

I agree but the rules posted on the website say "players born in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 can - with club approval - can leave the Academy mid -season to play high school soccer...".    Emphasize "with club approval".   Unfortunately, Not all clubs are approving.


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## espola

Striker17 said:


> High school soccer can be played until 2021- that's clear and not up to a DOC.
> At no place in any literature does it say your daughter cannot participate in other sports. If you have someone who is telling you otherwise they are wrong.
> It is up to you to fulfill DA obligations and I think that in our case getting people involved and also the other sports Coaches involved in the discussion was beneficial. There was no resistance when all parties came together.
> At the end of the day multi sport athletes are happier, less prone to overuse injury and stay in sports longer and that is research based. I know this isn't a popular opinion.
> I would agree having a DOC or coach who is open to discussion is paramount. However knowing the rules and loopholes is an added bonus as well.


Research based?  Point me to the research, please.


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## broshark

Kicker4Life said:


> I think you are overlooking the fact that many of the ‘03’s and above were ECNL players prior to this season. So maybe they were already top US Soccer prospects going into this new cycle and these players simply decided the best situation for them was to remain on their current teams.


Yeah, I don't think there's much debate that the 2004 DA teams are better than ECNL.

That said, there are plenty of 2004's who opted out and will play ECNL or even SCDSL so they can play other sports too.


espola said:


> Research based?  Point me to the research, please.


for starters (and including links to other studies on injury):  http://www.stack.com/a/new-study-reveals-whether-multi-sport-or-single-sport-athletes-have-a-better-chance-for-success


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## broshark

Real Deal said:


> That's funny, I don't think they play enough!  One game a weekend is less than we've ever played, and i think they need more actually.  If you have a kid who practices skills constantly, it just doesn't feel like enough.  I sincerely wish just one day of practice was actually mandated as an organized scrimmage or futsal.  Little less practice, little more play maybe? But what do I know, I'm not an expert.


Most euro clubs will say that you should play one game for every 6-8 practices or so.  More touches, fewer games.


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## espola

broshark said:


> Yeah, I don't think there's much debate that the 2004 DA teams are better than ECNL.
> 
> That said, there are plenty of 2004's who opted out and will play ECNL or even SCDSL so they can play other sports too.
> 
> for starters (and including links to other studies on injury):  http://www.stack.com/a/new-study-reveals-whether-multi-sport-or-single-sport-athletes-have-a-better-chance-for-success


That's nice, but perhaps we misunderstood each other.  I was looking for research that showed multiple-sport athletes were less susceptible to overuse injuries.

I am old enough that the better athletes in my high school played a different sport every season - soccer in the Fall, basketball in Winter, and baseball in Spring.  They also participated in recreational sports like skiing, swimming and golf in their free time.  No one could imagine a sport that had a 12-month season.


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## Kicker4Life

broshark said:


> Yeah, I don't think there's much debate that the 2004 DA teams are better than ECNL.
> 
> That said, there are plenty of 2004's who opted out and will play ECNL or even SCDSL so they can play other sports too.
> 
> for starters (and including links to other studies on injury):  http://www.stack.com/a/new-study-reveals-whether-multi-sport-or-single-sport-athletes-have-a-better-chance-for-success


Not arguing the fact that Multi Sport Atheletes reduce injury risk from wear and tear and actually are looked upon greater than single sport atheletes from recruiters. 

I know several DA players that continue to play other sports like tennis, volleyball (beach and/or indoor), Surf, etc.  one such player left an ECNL team and is playing DA and is a Barsity Tennis player in High School (as a freshman.

As MANY keep saying, DA isn’t a guaranteed pathway to the USNT.  So if Soccer43’s DD left an ECNL team and “sacrificed” so much to be in that team so she could get a NT invite (cause they weren’t getting that chance in ECNL, I think he/she needs to take a realistic look at who is to blame....the league of the decision.  If my assumptions are wrong, I apologize, just looking back they their posting history, that is the conclusion I drew. 

DA is 6 months old, unproven and definately not perfect....especially at the older age groups. 

We chose to go DA (04) for a few reasons:
- COACH
- Location
- Training Curriculum

A pathway to the NT was not one of them. However, she did get the call in to the last Training Center session which was just icing on the cake.


----------



## Lambchop

espola said:


> That's nice, but perhaps we misunderstood each other.  I was looking for research that showed multiple-sport athletes were less susceptible to overuse injuries.
> 
> I am old enough that the better athletes in my high school played a different sport every season - soccer in the Fall, basketball in Winter, and baseball in Spring.  They also participated in recreational sports like skiing, swimming and golf in their free time.  No one could imagine a sport that had a 12-month season.


There are many DA girls who continue with other sports, some that don't have "jerseys" or a patch, ie recreational sports. Some are even managing another sport at their high school. And, guess what, they even have a life.  Hobbies, shopping, sleep overs, texting, texting, tv, music, goofing off with friends and family.  Most of these girls have a passion for their sport and miss it when not playing.  All while maintaining great academics.


----------



## Soccer43

Kicker4Life said:


> Not arguing the fact that Multi Sport Atheletes reduce injury risk from wear and tear and actually are looked upon greater than single sport atheletes from recruiters.
> 
> I know several DA players that continue to play other sports like tennis, volleyball (beach and/or indoor), Surf, etc.  one such player left an ECNL team and is playing DA and is a Barsity Tennis player in High School (as a freshman.
> 
> As MANY keep saying, DA isn’t a guaranteed pathway to the USNT.  So if Soccer43’s DD left an ECNL team and “sacrificed” so much to be in that team so she could get a NT invite (cause they weren’t getting that chance in ECNL, I think he/she needs to take a realistic look at who is to blame....the league of the decision.  If my assumptions are wrong, I apologize, just looking back they their posting history, that is the conclusion I drew.
> 
> DA is 6 months old, unproven and definately not perfect....especially at the older age groups.
> 
> We chose to go DA (04) for a few reasons:
> - COACH
> - Location
> - Training Curriculum
> 
> A pathway to the NT was not one of them. However, she did get the call in to the last Training Center session which was just icing on the cake.


Thanks for the commentary on our situation but you do not know anything about us, DD's path or decisions and your conclusions are way off base.  I was providing a perspective from observations, personal  experience, and experience of DD's friends regarding the DA as clubs are handling this differently and players are having a different experience during this "experiment", especially depending on what age group you are in.  I don't come on  here to bash or critique others but I would suggest not making assumptions about posters as you don't know what you are talking about in terms of our player(s)  Appreciate hearing your experience but none of your commentary  about our situation is correct.


----------



## Real Deal

Kicker4Life said:


> We chose to go DA (04) for a few reasons:
> - COACH
> - Location
> - Training Curriculum
> 
> A pathway to the NT was not one of them. However, she did get the call in to the last Training Center session which was just icing on the cake.




I agree,  DA program is not run in Siberia, or Alcatraz, folks.  It's soccer. If you don't like it, don't do it.


----------



## broshark

espola said:


> That's nice, but perhaps we misunderstood each other.  I was looking for research that showed multiple-sport athletes were less susceptible to overuse injuries.
> 
> I am old enough that the better athletes in my high school played a different sport every season - soccer in the Fall, basketball in Winter, and baseball in Spring.  They also participated in recreational sports like skiing, swimming and golf in their free time.  No one could imagine a sport that had a 12-month season.


It is nice, thanks!  Had you read, you'd have seen there's a link to another study in the article that discusses increased injury in specialized athletes:  http://www.sportsmed.org/aossmimis/Members/About/Press_Releases/AM2017SundayB.aspx

#readingisfun

BTW, swimming has always been a 12-month season.


----------



## Striker17

Real Deal said:


> Well I would hope you like your coach, since he/she was the one who got your DD into a Training Center.    Not sure what that has to do with DA.  There are non-DA kids who go to those as well based upon their coach's recommendation.
> 
> But I do agree,  DA program is not run in Siberia, or Alcatraz, folks.  It's soccer. If you don't like it, don't do it.
> 
> I will say though that this kind of arrogant notion that "cream rises to the top" as the dual age banding occurs, or in DA selections overall...  Well, seeing as US Soccer probably only cares about placement of one or two kids, the vast majority of choices as to who makes the team are made by coaches and clubs also, so once again, there will no doubt be other things involved in those selections besides soccer talent-- and that's problematic (politics as usual).  Hopefully colleges are keeping an open mind and scouting other leagues as well.


Excellent post! We have also found that the majority of the "work" is done by the family in regards to this. Start the research now and be proactive with finding the right fit. 
I understand and agree with your post but wanted to add that additional layer.


----------



## C.A.M.

Soccer43 said:


> You make some good points but don't agree with some of your comments.  I am not arguing about which team is or should be the best at a DA/ECNL club.  I am talking about top players that would have preferred to stay in ECNL and have a life and other opportunities but were pressured into moving to a DA team because they were told if you don't you will not be scouted.  If you don't have a player in the DA you may not realize the increased level of sacrifice that has been required of these girls- I think many are watching and evaluating this for next year


Hello Soccer43,

Are you open to  a different view of a part of your statement? It's the "have a life" part.   

At this age group ECNL and all high level clubs are all practicing 3 days a week for 1.5 to 2 hours.  The DA adds one more day.  Kids playing multiple sports will most likely have a hard time being ultra competitive in our year around environment as they get older at the ECNL level also.  They often feel compelled to choose a sport by the clubs or high school coaches so the focus can be on the sport better suited to get that holy grail of a college scholarship.

Only speaking for my kids, they don't want to play other sports or high school athletics. We support and show up for the friends that do and my kids don't long for a missing part of their lives.  My girls team isn't top of the barrel either when I say this, so it's not just a winning thing.  It's a dedication and preference of style thing.  

With the current age bands the only way I see ECNL going away is if somehow the DA makes the DPL (DA2) extremely attractive.  I'm talking way beyond what it currently is.  I know the DA wants all DP players to come through the DPL type system with the same curriculum and standards as the DA.  For most kids, that simply isn't a big enough draw yet.  May be in the future.  So for now, and especially next year, I expect the DA and ECNL to thrive.   

Both leagues have great players and teams that play great soccer.  The big differentiator is the substitution rules.  It really shows which coaches are great managers also and which players have higher soccer IQs combined with physical endurance.  It's a challenge and one that is good for our soccer community.  I'm glad it's not the only option though.  Not every player is cut out for it.  The ECNL / college type sub rules are necessary for many to continue to develop without falling behind to the point of despair.


----------



## C.A.M.

espola said:


> We can see how well that worked out on the men's side.  Should we expect the girls to do any better?


I would say the majority of players on those team were not DA players and the few who were mostly didn't come up in the system from age 10 or 11.  The Boys DA is 10 years old.  Most of those guys were much older.  I say we should see the difference in the next 6-8 years as the born and bred DA players are making up a good part of the team.  We are starting to see more field players go overseas in great leagues as young pros. May be the system is starting to pay dividends.


broshark said:


> It is nice, thanks!  Had you read, you'd have seen there's a link to another study in the article that discusses increased injury in specialized athletes:  http://www.sportsmed.org/aossmimis/Members/About/Press_Releases/AM2017SundayB.aspx
> 
> #readingisfun
> 
> BTW, swimming has always been a 12-month season.



Unless you played water polo too!!!  Water polo of course includes swimming, but the focus is different.


----------



## C.A.M.

Soccerspew said:


> Check out our blog on ECNL and USDA
> http://www.soccerspew.com/elite-club-national-leagueecnl-vs-development-academyusda/


I gave it a read.  Seems mostly fair and balanced.  

My question is why not quantify the scout count in the article?   It basically said the DA event wasn't college coach/scout oriented. Word is there were around 600 in Florida and for certain plenty of East Coast big time programs.  By that I mean top 10 teams, recent national Champs, etc....

Top Hat vs Legends 03 had at least 65 college coaches and scouts.  LAPFC vs West Florida Flames had 30 to 35 and they are the lower to mid table teams.

Just a point for clarity.  I heard the Arizona ECNL event was packed also.


----------



## LadiesMan217

C.A.M. said:


> I gave it a read.  Seems mostly fair and balanced.
> 
> My question is why not quantify the scout count in the article?   It basically said the DA event wasn't college coach/scout oriented. Word is there were around 600 in Florida and for certain plenty of East Coast big time programs.  By that I mean top 10 teams, recent national Champs, etc....
> 
> Top Hat vs Legends 03 had at least 65 college coaches and scouts.  LAPFC vs West Florida Flames had 30 to 35 and they are the lower to mid table teams.
> 
> Just a point for clarity.  I heard the Arizona ECNL event was packed also.


If he quantified the count he would contradict his statement. That is why.


----------



## C.A.M.

LadiesMan217 said:


> If he quantified the count he would contradict his statement. That is why.


Exactly.  Let's be clear.


----------



## C.A.M.

Soccerspew said:


> There were approx 330 that attended: http://www.ussoccerda.com/2017-da-ws-college-coach-scout-attendee-list


Cool beans.  Now can we get the official ECNL numbers?


----------



## beachbum

https://admin.totalglobalsports.com/public/collgecoachattending.aspx?eid=593
About 170  not bad considering tournament is still going on


----------



## tugs

Will get a better idea in April when ECNL Phoenix showcase takes place same weekend as DA North Carolina showcase.


----------



## C.A.M.

tugs said:


> Will get a better idea in April when ECNL Phoenix showcase takes place same weekend as DA North Carolina showcase.


The article then misrepresents because it said the DA showcase turn out wasn't as good.  Either way we all need to know the facts so we can honestly see what it is we are getting from these organizations as far as exposure.


----------



## beachbum

The ECNL phoenix event has conflict with the DA Showcase and The National events have some overlap.  Should be interesting where the coaches are.  IMO overall what the ECNL had, was better for the girls and potential college opportunities.  Not only did you have the ECNL events but you had other showcases that you could attend.  With the DA you can only play DA events.  DA got that part wrong.  In reality there is really less than .25% chance of these girls ever making a full national team, should be more about the college opportunity.  Could have used the ECNL platform with maybe some tweaks to scout for national team.  Should have been ECNL is their initial look, then use college as their farm system and then after that the pro teams if they can remain viable.  DA has got a lot of this wrong so far, but it is exactly what the college coaches expected.
The last few years has been a total cluster f with all the changes that US soccer has dropped on youth soccer.  I feel bad for the girls that may have been left out in on the shuffle.
IMO opinion the best competition was the ECNL and now is in the DA but should be more geared to college where most of the girls will end up.


----------



## shales1002

tugs said:


> Will get a better idea in April when ECNL Phoenix showcase takes place same weekend as DA North Carolina showcase.


 I'm pretty sure coaches will divide and conquer. Remember not all of the best girls are playing GDA.


----------



## C.A.M.

I'm sure they will be where the talent is.


----------



## shales1002

C.A.M. said:


> I'm sure they will be where the talent is.


I’m sure too... to bad it’s on two different coasts.


----------



## C.A.M.

shales1002 said:


> I’m sure too... to bad it’s on two different coasts.


Then in June/July DA is in Carlsbad while the ECNL is in Texas.


----------



## shales1002

C.A.M. said:


> Then in June/July DA is in Carlsbad while the ECNL is in Texas.


Ecnl in Texas? I thought it was in Seattle . @Lambchop no need to disagree, coaches will be at both facilities. I know a few who have said as much.


----------



## C.A.M.

shales1002 said:


> Ecnl in Texas? I thought it was in Seattle . @Lambchop no need to disagree, coaches will be at both facilities. I know a few who have said as much.


I was under the impression that Texas had secured the championship series of ECNL.  Now I realize that may be for the other US Youth Soccer or whatever league.  I'm not really caring since I don't have to go or send my kids, but accurate information is great to give.  Anyone know for sure where ECNL is finishing up this year? Seattle sounds a heck of a lot better than Chicago in July.  Not as good as Carlsbad though.  Yeah baby. Lol.


----------



## beachbum

*ECNL National Playoffs*
*Date: *June 21-26, 2018

*Age Groups:* U14-U18/U19

*Competitions*: 


U18/U19 ECNL National Finals
U14-U17 Champions League Playoffs
U15-U17 North American Cup
U15-U17 Showcase Cup
*Schedule Breakdown:*


June 21: U18/U19 Day 1
June 22: U14-U17 Day 1, U18/U19 Day 2
June 23: U14-U17 Day 2, U18/U19 Day 3
June 24: “Off Day” / Built-In Inclement Weather Day
June 25: U14-U17 Day 3, U18/U19 National Semi-Finals
June 26: U14-U17 Advancement Games Only
U18/U19 National Championship
U14-U17 Champions League Quarterfinals Only
U14-U17 North American Cup & Showcase Cup Finals Only

*Facility: *


60 Acres Park | 15200 NE 116th Street, Redmond, WA
*Resource*: 2017-18 Post Season Overview & Structure

*Schedule*: The National Playoffs Draw will take place on June 7, 2018. The National Playoffs schedule will be released by June 13, 2018, and will be available on respective team pages.


----------



## shales1002

C.A.M. said:


> I was under the impression that Texas had secured the championship series of ECNL.  Now I realize that may be for the other US Youth Soccer or whatever league.  I'm not really caring since I don't have to go or send my kids, but accurate information is great to give.  Anyone know for sure where ECNL is finishing up this year? Seattle sounds a heck of a lot better than Chicago in July.  Not as good as Carlsbad though.  Yeah baby. Lol.


Carlsbad is definitely nice...lol. Texas would be miserable in July. the thought was scary.


----------



## C.A.M.

SAN DIEGO (July 28, 2017) - As part of its ongoing mission to impact everyday club environments to develop world class players, the U.S. Soccer Development Academy announced a multi-year agreement with the City of San Diego to host its signature end-of-season event, the Development Academy Summer Showcase and Playoffs, beginning June 18 - July 1, 2018.

http://www.ussoccerda.com/20170728-academy-signs-multi-year-agreement-summer-showcase-playoffs-san-diego


Those dates are for boys and girls and it doesn't give a schedule for who plays when yet.


----------



## espola

C.A.M. said:


> SAN DIEGO (July 28, 2017) - As part of its ongoing mission to impact everyday club environments to develop world class players, the U.S. Soccer Development Academy announced a multi-year agreement with the City of San Diego to host its signature end-of-season event, the Development Academy Summer Showcase and Playoffs, beginning June 18 - July 1, 2018.
> 
> http://www.ussoccerda.com/20170728-academy-signs-multi-year-agreement-summer-showcase-playoffs-san-diego
> 
> 
> Those dates are for boys and girls and it doesn't give a schedule for who plays when yet.


Interesting - the agreement as announced is with the City of San Diego, but the games are to be played in Oceanside.


----------



## CaliKlines

C.A.M. said:


> SAN DIEGO (July 28, 2017) - As part of its ongoing mission to impact everyday club environments to develop world class players, the U.S. Soccer Development Academy announced a multi-year agreement with the City of San Diego to host its signature end-of-season event, the Development Academy Summer Showcase and Playoffs, beginning June 18 - July 1, 2018.
> 
> http://www.ussoccerda.com/20170728-academy-signs-multi-year-agreement-summer-showcase-playoffs-san-diego
> 
> 
> Those dates are for boys and girls and it doesn't give a schedule for who plays when yet.


I think the play dates are already out...is this what you were looking for?

http://www.ussoccerda.com/2017-2018-da-event-schedule


----------



## C.A.M.

CaliKlines said:


> I think the play dates are already out...is this what you were looking for?
> 
> http://www.ussoccerda.com/2017-2018-da-event-schedule


Yes and thank you.


Girls' Age Group Play Dates

U-14 Showcase: June 27, 28, and 30
U-15 Showcase: June 23, 25, and 26
U-15 Playoff: June 23, 25, and 27
U-15 Quarterfinal: June 29
U-16/17 Showcase: June 24, 25, and 27
U-16/17 Playoff: June 24, 26, and 28
U-16/17 Quarterfinal: June 30
U-18/19 Playoff: June 23, 25, and 27
U-18/19 Final: June 29

For a calendar view of the 2018 Academy postseason, including kickoff times, click here.


----------



## GoWest

shales1002 said:


> Carlsbad is definitely nice...lol. Texas would be miserable in July. the thought was scary.


Frisco, TX is a bit warm, about 90-95 on average but that's very manageable IMHO.


----------



## Kicker4Life

GoWest said:


> Frisco, TX is a bit warm, about 90-95 on average but that's very manageable IMHO.


It’s the humidity that kills yah!


----------



## outside!

GoWest said:


> Frisco, TX is a bit warm, about 90-95 on average but that's very manageable IMHO.


It was totally manageable when we were there since they had big tubs of ice water for all the players that were having heat stroke to sit in. No worries.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Looks like ECNL is winning this tug of war.  With the Michigan Hawks pulling out and possibly PDA and Eclipse Select, how long will it take the SoCal teams to follow suit?  Get rid of GDA and you are back to having all of the talent concentrated on a few teams.  Seems like the SoCal Blues saw this coming.  Leaving their best players on their older ECNL teams.

I hate to say I told you so (no I don't) but with how US Soccer and USSF handle things it isn't a surprise that their are some unhappy customers.


----------



## Multivitamin

Forums around the country are verifying that these clubs below are leaving GDA.
These are high level clubs with multiple national titles and National players.
There is more but these have let it be known as of today!

PDA
ECLIPSE
FC STARS
HAWKS


----------



## MakeAPlay

Multivitamin said:


> Forums around the country are verifying that these clubs below are leaving GDA.
> These are high level clubs with multiple national titles and National players.
> There is more but these have let it be known as of today!
> 
> PDA
> ECLIPSE
> FC STARS
> HAWKS


Those are 4 of the most successful clubs in the country...


----------



## Multivitamin




----------



## beachbum

MakeAPlay said:


> Looks like ECNL is winning this tug of war.  With the Michigan Hawks pulling out and possibly PDA and Eclipse Select, how long will it take the SoCal teams to follow suit?  Get rid of GDA and you are back to having all of the talent concentrated on a few teams.  Seems like the SoCal Blues saw this coming.  Leaving their best players on their older ECNL teams.
> 
> I hate to say I told you so (no I don't) but with how US Soccer and USSF handle things it isn't a surprise that their are some unhappy customers.


Agree DA has screwed this up which honestly you have to expect to some degree with it being new.   It doesn't however seem like they are fixing any of the issues that they have, whether that is allowing girls to play high school, adding more show cases, letting teams play out side competition etc.  So many things they got wrong and are not willing to make changes/listen to the consumer.


----------



## MWN

MakeAPlay said:


> Looks like ECNL is winning this tug of war.  With the Michigan Hawks pulling out and possibly PDA and Eclipse Select, how long will it take the SoCal teams to follow suit?  Get rid of GDA and you are back to having all of the talent concentrated on a few teams.  Seems like the SoCal Blues saw this coming.  Leaving their best players on their older ECNL teams.
> 
> I hate to say I told you so (no I don't) but with how *US Soccer and USSF* handle things it isn't a surprise that their are some unhappy customers.


Those are the same.  The USSF is US Soccer and vice versa.


----------



## MakeAPlay

beachbum said:


> Agree DA has screwed this up which honestly you have to expect to some degree with it being new.   It doesn't however seem like they are fixing any of the issues that they have, whether that is allowing girls to play high school, adding more show cases, letting teams play out side competition etc.  So many things they got wrong and are not willing to make changes/listen to the consumer.


This is an opening for ECNL.  They should offer a few of the better SoCal GDA only clubs a spot in ECNL and watch what happens.


----------



## Mystery Train

It seems like from reading forum posts that the SoCal DA experience was a bit better than the experience DA clubs nationally had; probably because the talent depth here was able to compensate for the inevitable splits between ECNL and DA teams.  But if the other states best clubs were disappointed by the DA experience and return to ECNL, it will only be a matter of time before the SoCal teams follow suit because the only true "national" league will be ECNL again, and national recruitment will be easier for college coaches in the ECNL.


----------



## MWN

Mystery Train said:


> It seems like from reading forum posts that the SoCal DA experience was a bit better than the experience DA clubs nationally had; probably because the talent depth here was able to compensate for the inevitable splits between ECNL and DA teams.  But if the other states best clubs were disappointed by the DA experience and return to ECNL, it will only be a matter of time before the SoCal teams follow suit because the only true "national" league will be ECNL again, and national recruitment will be easier for college coaches in the ECNL.


That is a good point.  SoCal with its year round playing weather and deep talent pool with 24 Million souls 2.5x bigger than Michigan (10 million).  5 states make up the Mid America division (8 total states but 3 don't have DA teams.  SoCal is on a whole different level.


----------



## Real Deal

Still feeling like the girls are caught in the crossfire of a battle zone.  
It's too bad.  But I wonder if this war is just beginning.


----------



## C.A.M.

Real Deal said:


> Still feeling like the girls are caught in the crossfire of a battle zone.
> It's too bad.  But I wonder if this war is just beginning.



That's what I was saying in the other thread.  Are they leaving because they aren't as dominant as they have been on the ECNL scene for years??


----------



## MakeAPlay

Real Deal said:


> Still feeling like the girls are caught in the crossfire of a battle zone.
> It's too bad.  But I wonder if this war is just beginning.


Stick around long enough and you will see this happen over and over again.


----------



## davin

ECNL just released a list of “All In” member clubs, meaning clubs that are ECNL-only.

PDA, Michigan Hawks, Eclipse Select, and FC Stars are on the list. Looks like all four of those big clubs are confirmed to have dropped DA.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xt8ug9rijn07ynv/Girls ECNL All In 18-19.pdf?dl=0


----------



## shales1002

davin said:


> ECNL just released a list of “All In” member clubs, meaning clubs that are ECNL-only.
> 
> PDA, Michigan Hawks, Eclipse Select, and FC Stars are on the list. Looks like all four of those big clubs are confirmed to have dropped DA.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xt8ug9rijn07ynv/Girls ECNL All In 18-19.pdf?dl=0


Thanks for sharing @davin . Did you all notice the SoCal clubs missing from the list? But the statement does say more to follow.


----------



## Dos Equis

shales1002 said:


> Thanks for sharing @davin . Did you all notice the SoCal clubs missing from the list? But the statement does say more to follow.


Noticed that Slammers FC was on the list.  Seems to imply that "partnership" DA programs may not be considered by ECNL to be the same club.  Bottom line, be wary of making too many conclusions on who is leaving DA based on this list, some clubs may just be putting more separation/independence between ECNL and their partnered DA program.  

MAP is correct, league changes seem to be the only constant in girls club soccer.  Another reason why no player/parent should prioritize league over coach, team or even club.


----------



## davin

Dos Equis said:


> Noticed that Slammers FC was on the list.  Seems to imply that "partnership" DA programs may not be considered by ECNL to be the same club.  Bottom line, be wary of making too many conclusions on who is leaving DA based on this list, some clubs may just be putting more separation/independence between ECNL and their partnered DA program.
> 
> MAP is correct, league changes seem to be the only constant in girls club soccer.  Another reason why no player/parent should prioritize league over coach, team or even club.


Actually, one of the rumors was that Slammers was one of the clubs that were looking to leave GDA. Not sure if that’s true or not.

I do know that Seattle United, which was just announced as a new ECNL member, was in a partnership with the Seattle Reign NWSL team to create the Seattle Reign GDA club. Seattle United backed out of tthat partnership. Not sure how the NWSL club will be able to field competitive GDA teams now since they were using Seattle United’s coaches, players, and fields.


----------



## MakeAPlay

shales1002 said:


> Thanks for sharing @davin . Did you all notice the SoCal clubs missing from the list? But the statement does say more to follow.


I noticed Slammers with no LAFC attached to it.  What's up with that?


----------



## Soccer

MakeAPlay said:


> I noticed Slammers with no LAFC attached to it.  What's up with that?


I think it is semantics like Dos Equis pointed out.  LAFC Slammers is separate in a way as they wear adidas and are partners with LAFC.  Maybe the Slammers name will be dropped from DA next year?  But again only semantics.


----------



## C.A.M.

Dos Equis said:


> Noticed that Slammers FC was on the list.  Seems to imply that "partnership" DA programs may not be considered by ECNL to be the same club.  Bottom line, be wary of making too many conclusions on who is leaving DA based on this list, some clubs may just be putting more separation/independence between ECNL and their partnered DA program.
> 
> MAP is correct, league changes seem to be the only constant in girls club soccer.  Another reason why no player/parent should prioritize league over coach, team or even club.



LAFC only put their name on the DA teams and I suspect will only continue to if the partnership moves forward.  LAFC Slammers has it's own site vs the rest of the club.  lafc.academy/girlsacademy/

Everything else is Slammers FC / CDA even if the coaches etc... are the same. 

I'd have a hard time seeing LAFC endorsing ECNL on the girls side with the way they treat DA on the boys side.  Unlike Galaxy, TFA or Surf, there are no club teams or affiliates.  May be that has more to due with the whole club being new, but it sure doesn't feel as if it is changing anytime soon.

Also, rumor says Mia Hamm and other owners will be bringing a LAFC womens team in the next few years.  Who knows where that puts the partnership with Slammers?


----------



## MakeAPlay

C.A.M. said:


> Also, rumor says Mia Hamm and other owners will be bringing a LAFC womens team in the next few years.  Who knows where that puts the partnership with Slammers?


The rumor is a partnership with FC Barcelona women.


----------



## C.A.M.

Seeing Arsenal on the list brings up the great divide in the Inland Empire that may be happening in other parts of the country.   
Play DA and go to Legends if you make the cut or travel to South OC  or The Valley (LA Premier, Real So Cal or Eagles).
Play ECNL and go to Arsenal.  

I guess this leaves an affiliate such as IE Surf in a pickle as they are running through what's left of the competition with the DA coming in, but are playing in the NPL.


----------



## C.A.M.

Qu


MakeAPlay said:


> The rumor is a partnership with FC Barcelona women.


Quite possible as FC Barcelona and Real Madrid already made statements they plan on bringing their brands to the NWSL in the near future.  

Now what if California went from no womens teams to 2?


----------



## B.B.

davin said:


> Actually, one of the rumors was that Slammers was one of the clubs that were looking to leave GDA. Not sure if that’s true or not.
> 
> I do know that Seattle United, which was just announced as a new ECNL member, was in a partnership with the Seattle Reign NWSL team to create the Seattle Reign GDA club. Seattle United backed out of tthat partnership. Not sure how the NWSL club will be able to field competitive GDA teams now since they were using Seattle United’s coaches, players, and fields.


I think Seattle Reign is now partnered with Eastside FC. They are a solid WA club.


----------



## soccer661

Another article...

https://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/more-large-youth-clubs-leave-girls-da-for-all-in-ecnl-status/


----------



## MakeAPlay

soccer661 said:


> Another article...
> 
> https://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/more-large-youth-clubs-leave-girls-da-for-all-in-ecnl-status/


Great post.  I suggest anyone reading the article also read the comments at the bottom.


----------



## shales1002

MakeAPlay said:


> Great post.  I suggest anyone reading the article also read the comments at the bottom.


 Thanks. I didn't even think to look at the comments.


----------



## C.A.M.

soccer661 said:


> Another article...
> 
> https://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/more-large-youth-clubs-leave-girls-da-for-all-in-ecnl-status/



Reading the comments - it's all about high school.  That's why both systems need to exists or DPL better turn into a better ECNL fast.  A lot parents want their kids to play high school and a lot of kids want to play.  Personal choice.  Not caring about high school one bit.


----------



## davin

soccer661 said:


> Another article...
> 
> https://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/more-large-youth-clubs-leave-girls-da-for-all-in-ecnl-status/


If that that source in the article is correct and Crossfire Premier leaves GDA, Seattle Reign will be the only DA club left in the state of Washington next year. I’d hate to have their travel schedule.


----------



## Desert Hound

davin said:


> If that that source in the article is correct and Crossfire Premier leaves GDA, Seattle Reign will be the only DA club left in the state of Washington next year. I’d hate to have their travel schedule.


If that happens...that travel schedule as you say is brutal. Brutal enough to consider saying hello to ECNL. And of course it is not only them having to travel...but the other DA teams in their division that have to go play them.


----------



## beachbum

Anthony DiCicco@DiCiccoMethod
https://twitter.com/DiCiccoMethod/status/986599783296053248

USSF declined to start the GDA 10 years ago. The ECNL stepped in. Built something great. Instead of investing in the ECNL, they wanted control over the pathway & decided to compete with it. But they haven’t built a better mousetrap, just one with more restrictions & constraints.


----------



## Soccer43

And I would add, created a tremendous amount of chaos  for the high school age players currently in the pipeline


----------



## GoWest

Soccer said:


> I think it is semantics like Dos Equis pointed out.  LAFC Slammers is separate in a way as they wear adidas and are partners with LAFC.  Maybe the Slammers name will be dropped from DA next year?  But again only semantics.


I see Slammers FC ECNL teams played "first game ever" on new LAFC pitch. I agree about the semantics. Must've been a cool experience for the girls.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bh0LsIvA038/?taken-by=slammersfc


----------



## sdklutz

Does anyone anticipate that either DA (DPL) or ECNL will require the dual Clubs to choose one league?


----------



## Kicker4Life

sdklutz said:


> Does anyone anticipate that either DA (DPL) or ECNL will require the dual Clubs to choose one league?


Ask someone from Real Socal or Eagles......


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Kicker4Life said:


> Ask someone from Real Socal or Eagles......


Both clubs are 100% DA.


----------



## GoWest

sdklutz said:


> Does anyone anticipate that either DA (DPL) or ECNL will require the dual Clubs to choose one league?


I have heard that there is no mandate (at least for the upcoming season) to choose. Blues, Surf and Slammers are planning next season around both ECNL and DA.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Simisoccerfan said:


> Both clubs are 100% DA.


Yes, I know!  Both where also ECNL Clubd too until ECNL dropped them for going DA.


----------



## Fact

Kicker4Life said:


> Ask someone from Real Socal or Eagles......


Does anyone know exactly what happened here? Did DA or ECNL push them?  And was it under the disguise that the area did not have enough top players to support viable teams in both leagues?  I happen to agree that 2 teams in the area are enough if the true purpose is to develop top talent by having them compete against other teams with only top talent.  However, with too many DA teams across Socal, maybe half the players on any given team truly belong in the DA league.


----------



## Dos Equis

Fact said:


> Does anyone know exactly what happened here? Did DA or ECNL push them?  And was it under the disguise that the area did not have enough top players to support viable teams in both leagues?  I happen to agree that 2 teams in the area are enough if the true purpose is to develop top talent by having them compete against other teams with only top talent.  However, with too many DA teams across Socal, maybe half the players on any given team truly belong in the DA league.


For RSC and Eagles, ECNL's point of view was that the clubs did not have the track record of success to suggest they could support two top/elite teams, so they gave them an ultimatum.  I do not think it was geography, more club specific.   Since the DA application required all clubs commit to put their top players into DA, it seemed reasonable for the ECNL to protect the level of competition in this way.   Some say different, this is my understanding.

It is also my understanding the ECNL has asked clubs going forward to commit that the ECNL teams not be structured as "B" teams -- in other words, a level playing field where kids/families are free to choose the program/team that was right for them (something the DA application did not allow).   Having a separate club structure/brand for DA and ECNL might provide that (i.e. Slammers), as would allowing teams and players who want to be ECNL stay (Blues).  

It is all evolving, and will continue to do so as  US Soccer/DA makes changes to its programs, ECNL drops clubs and adds others, the NCAA changes its rules, etc.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Dos Equis said:


> For RSC and Eagles, ECNL's point of view was that the clubs did not have the track record of success to suggest they could support two top/elite teams, so they gave them an ultimatum.  I do not think it was geography, more club specific.   Since the DA application required all clubs commit to put their top players into DA, it seemed reasonable for the ECNL to protect the level of competition in this way.   Some say different, this is my understanding.
> 
> It is also my understanding the ECNL has asked clubs going forward to commit that the ECNL teams not be structured as "B" teams -- in other words, a level playing field where kids/families are free to choose the program/team that was right for them (something the DA application did not allow).   Having a separate club structure/brand for DA and ECNL might provide that (i.e. Slammers), as would allowing teams and players who want to be ECNL stay (Blues).
> 
> It is all evolving, and will continue to do so as  US Soccer/DA makes changes to its programs, ECNL drops clubs and adds others, the NCAA changes its rules, etc.


My understanding is close to yours.  Real was denied by ECNL but that Eagles did not apply.   My opinion is that with Real, Eagles and LA Premier DA our area could probably support one ECNL team in addition but not more.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Simisoccerfan said:


> My understanding is close to yours.  Real was denied by ECNL but that Eagles did not apply.   My opinion is that with Real, Eagles and LA Premier DA our area could probably support one ECNL team in addition but not more.


So ECNL teams have to reapply for status each year?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kicker4Life said:


> So ECNL teams have to reapply for status each year?


No.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MakeAPlay said:


> No.


Didn’t  Think so......Simi’s response didn’t make sense.


----------



## outside!

Kicker4Life said:


> Didn’t  Think so......Simi’s response didn’t make sense.


I found it confusing as well. Eagles used to be ECNL.


----------



## Kicker4Life

outside! said:


> I found it confusing as well. Eagles used to be ECNL.


Both clubs were up until July of last year


----------



## Dos Equis

outside! said:


> I found it confusing as well. Eagles used to be ECNL.


Perhaps they decided to drop their ECNL program once they were admitted to DA.  Both RSC and Eagles posters have been engaged in a "it's not you, it's me" exercise regarding who broke up with whom for around a year,  but the end result is the same. However, no re-application is necessary between seasons, MAP is correct.

I expect to hear soon how WCFC decided to "drop" ECNL, or not re-apply, for next season.


----------



## BigSoccer

I heard big clubs with dual DA ECNL tags have one year to decide.  Surf and Blues being big clubs.  The fact that they may not be competitive in both leagues is the driver but you can not just drop DA and then ask your ECNL team to either leave or become non-ECNL.  ECNL does not allow two teams from the same club to play in the league. Not sure about that rule either but hey hearsay is fun.


----------



## davin

Not sure if posted already, but interesting article about why PDA chose to leave GDA entirely for ECNL. 

http://highschoolsports.nj.com/news/article/7266435192685118215/nj-based-sky-blue-pda-girls-soccer-leaving-us-girls-development-academy/


----------



## GoWest

davin said:


> Not sure if posted already, but interesting article about why PDA chose to leave GDA entirely for ECNL.
> 
> http://highschoolsports.nj.com/news/article/7266435192685118215/nj-based-sky-blue-pda-girls-soccer-leaving-us-girls-development-academy/


Insightful article. Thanks for posting link. I agree with their approach.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

outside! said:


> I found it confusing as well. Eagles used to be ECNL.


I thought I was clear. Real wanted keep ECNL along with DA last year. They were denied by ECNL  Eagles had decided to discontinue ECNL (though would have been denied too). That was last year.


----------



## Tomnchar

WCFC is merging with Surf. I believe the reason the will no longer be ECNL is because ECNL only allows one team per club.


----------



## Soccer

Let’s get caught up:

Last Year - RSC and Eagles lost ECNL due to picking DA.  They were not allowed to keep both.  ECNL had criteria in place that you had to have won an ECNL national championship to keep both.  Blues, Surf, Slammers, West Coast did.

Surf was given an ultimatum by DA this year.  But struck a deal somehow they are keeping both.

West Coast given same ultimatum. Chose DA.  Nothing to due with becoming OC Surf.  I think this was an easy choice for West Coast as their ECNL teams are struggling as are their DA teams.

From what I hear ECNL not adding any SoCal clubs this year, but that might change.


----------



## MWN

Soccer said:


> Let’s get caught up:
> 
> Last Year - RSC and Eagles lost ECNL due to picking DA.  They were not allowed to keep both.  ECNL had criteria in place that you had to have won an ECNL national championship to keep both.  Blues, Surf, Slammers, West Coast did.
> 
> Surf was given an ultimatum by DA this year.  But struck a deal somehow they are keeping both.
> 
> West Coast given same ultimatum. Chose DA.  Nothing to due with becoming OC Surf.  I think this was an easy choice for West Coast as their ECNL teams are struggling as are their DA teams.
> 
> From what I hear ECNL not adding any SoCal clubs this year, but that might change.


Most Regions have 8-10 ECNL clubs.  The Southwest Region has 9.  SoCal is a different market than Mass or NJ.  SoCal = 22 Million, New Jersey = 9M, and Mass is 6.9 M.  SoCal could be broken into two ECNL regions and still be competitive.  That said, the DA has effectively performed the split.  In SoCal the DA is here to stay and ECNL isn't going to grow, but by 1 club.


----------



## Soccer43

not sure about the DA being here to stay - seems not everyone is on the same page on that.  lots of questions, lots of rumors, lots of different thoughts after this first year.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

MWN said:


> Most Regions have 8-10 ECNL clubs.  The Southwest Region has 9.  SoCal is a different market than Mass or NJ.  SoCal = 22 Million, New Jersey = 9M, and Mass is 6.9 M.  SoCal could be broken into two ECNL regions and still be competitive.  That said, the DA has effectively performed the split.  In SoCal the DA is here to stay and ECNL isn't going to grow, but by 1 club.


Where are they going to get the talent?


----------



## Desert Hound

Sheriff Joe said:


> Where are they going to get the talent?


Easy...like this.


----------



## Pitch pop

New team rankings. Take it for what it is worth. 
https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer/club-soccer-team-rankings/women/u15/3/912


----------



## GoWest

Pitch pop said:


> New team rankings. Take it for what it is worth.
> https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer/club-soccer-team-rankings/women/u15/3/912


What does TDS charge clubs to enter their player names into the "players to watch" rankings? The team rankings are free, right? Obviously, US Soccer campers and actual G/WNT rostered players populate the upper levels so those are assumed free.


----------



## davin

In case anyone is interested, below is the e-mail that the Michigan Hawks sent out to their membership about why they chose ECNL over DA and their plans for next year in ECNL. They will have two ECNL teams at each age group. One team is a 10-month commitment, and the other is only a 6-month commitment that allows players to play soccer in high school. Members of both teams are given the choice to play other sports in high school. I believe that the other big clubs who left DA to compete only in ECNL are following the same model.

From the Michigan Hawks:
*The ECNL's holistic approach to the development of the entire player was one of the biggest reasons for our decision. We believe that we can provide a better overall experience for each of our players and families within the programming of the ECNL. Another important factor in this decision was our ability to include our first two teams into the ECNL for the 2018-2019 season. They have decided that based on the performance of our teams in the league this year, we will be able to have two teams participate moving forward. This gives us the ability to provide 30-40 kids in each age group the opportunity to compete at this elite level. 

So, what does that mean? What will next year look like?

The club's plan in 2018-2019 for the 2005s will be to offer 2 ECNL teams to players. Both teams will be on a 10-month program, that will include conference games, ECNL Showcases and friendly weekends vs top clubs spread over the entire year.

The club's plan for the 2001s-2004s will be to offer 2 different team options to our players. The first will be a 10-month ECNL program, that will include conference games, ECNL Showcases and friendly weekends vs top clubs spread over the entire year. This team will be selected based on ability first and then the willingness of the player to commit to the 10-month calendar. Players on this team will be allowed to participate in other high school sports, just not soccer. This year round program has been a formula for success for our elite players for the last 5 years.

The Michigan Hawks will also offer 6-month ECNL programming for players, for those players that would like to play high school. The only difference for this group will be that they will play their conference schedule and showcases in the fall and winter, finishing up in early March, before high school starts. There will be an option for a spring showcase team for these players on the 6-month team that choose not to play in high school.*


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Interesting that they are now going to have a no HS Soccer ECNL team.


----------



## cerebro de fútbol

Simisoccerfan said:


> Interesting that they are now going to have a no HS Soccer ECNL team.


At least they are not calling it the '03 ECNL Pilot!


----------



## MWN

Simisoccerfan said:


> Interesting that they are now going to have a no HS Soccer ECNL team.


Appreciate that the HS soccer season for Massachusetts in in the fall (in California its Winter) and the ECNL in the NW conference plays from Fall through Spring.  In the SW the conference doesn't schedule games in Dec-Feb to accommodate HS soccer).  Other areas of the nation simply don't have the weather conditions that allow the flexibility we have in SoCal and must maximize their schedules accordingly.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

MWN said:


> Appreciate that the HS soccer season for Massachusetts in in the fall (in California its Winter) and the ECNL in the NW conference plays from Fall through Spring.  In the SW the conference doesn't schedule games in Dec-Feb to accommodate HS soccer).  Other areas of the nation simply don't have the weather conditions that allow the flexibility we have in SoCal and must maximize their schedules accordingly.


This is very similar to the DA program.  Various areas of the country play HS in Fall, Winter, or Spring so it makes it very difficult to have any sort of National League and to hold showcases that all can attend and still play HS.  Plus every HS I know of bans HS players from playing on outside teams during their season.


----------



## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> This is very similar to the DA program.  Various areas of the country play HS in Fall, Winter, or Spring so it makes it very difficult to have any sort of National League and to hold showcases that all can attend and still play HS.  Plus every HS I know of bans HS players from playing on outside teams during their season.


I don't know what the number is now, but this article claims, as of 2011, 26 states had eliminated the ban on playing on outside teams during the HS season: https://www.mercurynews.com/2014/01/22/cif-addresses-ban-on-club-sports-participation-during-school-season/


----------



## outside!

And then there is CIF which actively discourages athletes from getting recruited to college.


----------



## Pitch pop

Just curious if anyone has noticed any significant differences in their recruiting experience since the NCAA implemented their new “early recruiting” rules a couple of weeks ago? From what I’ve seen and heard the new rule change haven’t changed things all that much. I can’t speak for DA teams, but I am aware of a couple of teams (‘03 and ‘02 ECNL teams) that have had multiple college coaches attend their practices and games since the rule went into effect. Sounds like there is still a great deal of interest in the younger groups?


----------



## Dos Equis

Pitch pop said:


> Just curious if anyone has noticed any significant differences in their recruiting experience since the NCAA implemented their new “early recruiting” rules a couple of weeks ago? From what I’ve seen and heard the new rule change haven’t changed things all that much. I can’t speak for DA teams, but I am aware of a couple of teams (‘03 and ‘02 ECNL teams) that have had multiple college coaches attend their practices and games since the rule went into effect. Sounds like there is still a great deal of interest in the younger groups?


Based on the communication and analysis I have heard/seen, the most impactful change on youngers is the inability to do an unofficial visit prior to Junior year.  Since most of these occur for the dual purpose of the player getting to know the team/culture/school and the team getting to better assess the player's personality/fit prior to the verbal commit, they occur during the school year from September-April.  So I think the impact will start to be felt on the '03 (and a lesser extent '04) players next fall.  

Some coaches may delay giving verbal offers pending this visit, while some players may be faced with making a decision to verbally commit with less opportunity to get familiar the program they are committing to.   Someone who is more a student of game theory may be able to make a more informed prediction on how coaches might react, since the rules do not appear to prohibit verbal commits at any time.

There will also be an impact on '02s starting in the fall, who may now be offered an official visit as a way to show some love and sell the school.


----------



## Fact

Talking to a local coach today he said his club has seen a lot more college coach interest in 03s during April.


----------



## Hdyldemapples

Kicker4Life said:


> This is not even close to our experience in DA. I’ll go out on a limb and guess that your DD does not play DA?


Is your daughter in High School?


----------



## Hdyldemapples

Hdyldemapples said:


> Is your daughter in High School?


Nevermind, just read that your dds an 04.


----------



## davin

Eclipse Select is now confirmed as dropping DA and is All In for ECNL.

https://www.eclipseselect.org/2018/05/eclipse-select-are-ecnl-all-in-for-the-2018-19-season/


----------



## Multivitamin

a 4th Big soccer club based right out of Chicago is done with GDA.
ECLIPSE - ALL IN ECNL!

https://www.socceramerica.com/publi...eclipse-select-sc-is-latest-club-to-leav.html


----------



## GoWest

davin said:


> Eclipse Select is now confirmed as dropping DA and is All In for ECNL.
> 
> https://www.eclipseselect.org/2018/05/eclipse-select-are-ecnl-all-in-for-the-2018-19-season/





Multivitamin said:


> a 4th Big soccer club based right out of Chicago is done with GDA.
> ECLIPSE - ALL IN ECNL!
> 
> https://www.socceramerica.com/publi...eclipse-select-sc-is-latest-club-to-leav.html


....informative reads. Grapevine is that more are to follow. Love/hate DA doesn't matter but this exodus of major clubs was not anticipated. Where this leaves DA as an upstart national league when all is said and done is yet to be known. One thing for sure is that the first DA season is ending on a down note.


----------



## davin

GoWest said:


> ....informative reads. Grapevine is that more are to follow. Love/hate DA doesn't matter but this exodus of major clubs was not anticipated. Where this leaves DA as an upstart national league when all is said and done is yet to be known. One thing for sure is that the first DA season is ending on a down note.


Concorde Fire is the club that is rumored to be next to go All-In ECNL. Their GDA teams at each age group are all currently qualified for the GDA playoffs and sitting in the top 3 in the Southeast GDA conference. Probably the 2nd best GDA club in the Southeast behind Tophat.


----------



## GoWest

davin said:


> Concorde Fire is the club that is rumored to be next to go All-In ECNL. Their GDA teams at each age group are all currently qualified for the GDA playoffs and sitting in the top 3 in the Southeast GDA conference. Probably the 2nd best GDA club in the Southeast behind Tophat.


@davin it is really illuminating all this fallout. It's seems a hard lesson in resisting the "knee-jerk" response to really anything in life. A lot of $$$ has been spent getting DA up and running not to mention the upheaval that it caused so many players, coaches and parents. Again, not saying DA hasn't been beneficial for some but I think @NoGoal and / or @MAP posted several months ago that it would be a much rougher ride for DA than many anticipated. Many of us, including me, initially jumped on the hype-wagon for DA. Well, the dust is settling and there seem to be more questions about league sustainability and consistency than in the beginning IMHO.


----------



## Pitch pop

Someone posted this in a different thread. Interesting read....

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/77821/steve-gans-on-the-development-academys-flaws-the.html


----------



## Real Deal

The


----------



## Manny Villanueva

I agree... Politics in youths sports... Not GOOD!


----------



## LadiesMan217

Real Deal said:


> The problem with DA and ECNL and every single thing in this sport is politics.  It's clear as day to me.  Politics is ruining this sport in this country.


Add money and greed to this list (aka politics).


----------



## Seven

Intersting article on GDA and ECNL. Looks like GDA is making a few changes.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/us-soccer-girls-development-academy-ecnl-uswnt-challenges


----------



## davin

Concorde Fire is officially All In ECNL.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bi7etAYgUuF/


----------



## GoWest

davin said:


> Concorde Fire is officially All In ECNL.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bi7etAYgUuF/


Interesting they are fielding two teams at u15, u16, u17. Makes me wonder what ECNL is doing to support additional teams in those age groups?


----------



## MarkM

GoWest said:


> Interesting they are fielding two teams at u15, u16, u17. Makes me wonder what ECNL is doing to support additional teams in those age groups?


Michigan Hawks also announced that they will be fielding two ECNL teams per age group.  One team per age group will not be allowed to play high school soccer and the program lasts 10 months.  The other team per age group is on a 6-month program and those kids can play high school soccer.  It will be interesting to see how competitive those teams stay next year.  Which teams will attract more talent from within the club, which team improves more, etc.  I'm also curious why they put a prohibition against high school soccer on any team.  That seems odd since high school soccer has been such a big sticking point.


----------



## younothat

MarkM said:


> Michigan Hawks also announced that they will be fielding two ECNL teams per age group.  One team per age group will not be allowed to play high school soccer and the program lasts 10 months.  The other team per age group is on a 6-month program and those kids can play high school soccer.  It will be interesting to see how competitive those teams stay next year.  Which teams will attract more talent from within the club, which team improves more, etc.  I'm also curious why they put a prohibition against high school soccer on any team.  That seems odd since high school soccer has been such a big sticking point.


The amount of games....HS can play a lot of games with the playoffs,  that's been one of the main sticking points.

ECNL plays fewer games vs DA (34-40 depending on showcases, playoffs)  so should be easier to play HS also, although DA has almost a built in break during a big chunk of the HS season  I think the option should be there (without the waiver needed for scholarship schools)  for those players who can take the extra games (12-20 depending on league, playoffs)


----------



## Multivitamin

The two teams per age group could be linked to this not sure??

http://challengesoccer.com/challenge-launches-new-regional-league-with-six-other-ecnl-clubs


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Its easy to see why they want two teams.  They currently sell two elite level teams (one DA and one ECNL).  If they offered only one ECNL team they would lose paying customers.  So they need to have two teams to keep their economic model working.


----------



## GoWest

MarkM said:


> Michigan Hawks also announced that they will be fielding two ECNL teams per age group.  One team per age group will not be allowed to play high school soccer and the program lasts 10 months.  The other team per age group is on a 6-month program and those kids can play high school soccer.  It will be interesting to see how competitive those teams stay next year.  Which teams will attract more talent from within the club, which team improves more, etc.  I'm also curious why they put a prohibition against high school soccer on any team.  That seems odd since high school soccer has been such a big sticking point.


You make great points. Is it just the u15, u16 and u17 age groups ECNL is allowing two teams?


----------



## GoWest

Simisoccerfan said:


> Its easy to see why they want two teams.  They currently sell two elite level teams (one DA and one ECNL).  If they offered only one ECNL team they would lose paying customers.  So they need to have two teams to keep their economic model working.


No one can deny that economics plays a huge part in all of this.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I have also heard on some Eastern forums that many firmly believe that clubs make more money through ECNL then DA.   So don't buy completely into the public reasons they say for this change.


----------



## futboldad1

Simisoccerfan said:


> I have also heard on some Eastern forums that many firmly believe that clubs make more money through ECNL then DA.   So don't buy completely into the public reasons they say for this change.


Got a link?


----------



## davin

davin said:


> Concorde Fire is the club that is rumored to be next to go All-In ECNL. Their GDA teams at each age group are all currently qualified for the GDA playoffs and sitting in the top 3 in the Southeast GDA conference. Probably the 2nd best GDA club in the Southeast behind Tophat.


@Jon  - why did you rate this post as "Old" without any comment? It's today's news. LOL. Speak up.


----------



## MarkM

GoWest said:


> You make great points. Is it just the u15, u16 and u17 age groups ECNL is allowing two teams?


Here is the announcement I read regarding the Hawks' two-team program:  https://hawks.soccer/news/hawks-announce-plans-for-2018-2019/  It looks like the 2005s get two teams too, but both of those teams will be on the 10-month program.


----------



## Kicknit22

Maybe this question has been addressed already, but I’m curious. Can a DA Player be listed as a “Discovery Player” for an ECNL team?


----------



## MarkM

Kicknit22 said:


> Maybe this question has been addressed already, but I’m curious. Can a DA Player be listed as a “Discovery Player” for an ECNL team?


I think ECNL will allow the player to be listed, but DA won't allow the player to play in ECNL (or any other non-DA competition).


----------



## GoWest

Kicknit22 said:


> Maybe this question has been addressed already, but I’m curious. Can a DA Player be listed as a “Discovery Player” for an ECNL team?


I think so if the DA player is a " developmental player" which limits their DA games to six. Is that right DA guru's?


----------



## Soccer43

you cannot play in ECNL or any other league if you are on a DA roster as a FT player.  You can leave the DA and then go play somewhere else but you cannot continue to play in both leagues.  I don't know the rules if you are a DP for DA


----------



## Soccer

GoWest said:


> I think so if the DA player is a " developmental player" which limits their DA games to six. Is that right DA guru's?


Correct

But has to be DP on DA roster not FT.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

GoWest said:


> I think so if the DA player is a " developmental player" which limits their DA games to six. Is that right DA guru's?


Yes but you need to be on another team with the same club to DP. Then you get up to 6 games.  They can move you to full time after or your done with DA.


----------



## Enjoy the ride

How many dual clubs (DA/ECNL) remain? And when will they have to decide which one they're keeping and which one they're dropping?


----------



## Soccer

Enjoy the ride said:


> How many dual clubs (DA/ECNL) remain? And when will they have to decide which one they're keeping and which one they're dropping?


Surf and Blues.

Slammers DA will drop the Slammers and just be LAFC I hear.

Both of them have to decide after next season.  So for the 2019-2020 season.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Soccer said:


> Surf and Blues.
> 
> Slammers DA will drop the Slammers and just be LAFC I hear.
> 
> Both of them have to decide after next season.  So for the 2019-2020 season.


There are at least 8 dual clubs still left in the country.


----------



## Enjoy the ride

Simisoccerfan said:


> There are at least 8 dual clubs still left in the country.


Is there a list of them somewhere? Curious to know which clubs remain dual rostered.


----------



## Soccer

Enjoy the ride said:


> Is there a list of them somewhere? Curious to know which clubs remain dual rostered.


If Nationally is what you are after:

http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2017-2018-member-club-map/


http://www.ussoccerda.com/2017-boys-u-12-club-map

You can compare the maps.  But keep in my some have just dropped DA.


----------



## MarkM

I'm sure I missed an announcement, but my best guess is in *bold*:
*
(1) Crossfire Premier
(2) Real Colorado*
(3) Real SoCal
*(4) Surf
(5) So Cal Blues*
(6) Slammers
(7) West Coast
(8) Eagles
(9) SC Del Sol
*(10) Orlando Pride/City*
(11) Albertson Soccer Fury/Fury FC
*(12) World Class/New York City FC
(13) FC Dallas
(14) Solar
(15) Dallas Texans*
(16) Lonestar SC
(17) Colorado Rush
(18) Eclipse Select
(19) Sockers
(20) Michigan Hawks
(21) Concorde Fire
*(22) Tophat*
(23) Boca United
(24) Weston FC
(25) West Florida Flames
(26) Indiana Fire
(27) FC Virginia
(28) Charlotte SA
(29) Penn Fusion
(30) Sky Blue PDA
(31) Boston Breakers
(32) FC Stars
(33) Seattle Reign
(34) Sporting Blue Valley
*(35) NC Fusion*


----------



## Lambchop

Kicknit22 said:


> Maybe this question has been addressed already, but I’m curious. Can a DA Player be listed as a “Discovery Player” for an ECNL team?


No, not as of right now.  Some changes coming next year but not clear about what it means.  Check with a DA club.


----------



## Cream puff

Rumor... has anyone heard that SD Surf not doing EcNL next season??


----------



## GoWest

Cream puff said:


> Rumor... has anyone heard that SD Surf not doing EcNL next season??


I've heard that for the last few months so I'm with you....is it just a rumor?

Surf may be dealing with an identity crisis? Really only competitive this season in u14 and u16 ECNL (throw in u15 and NAL) when historically the club was more often than not in the National Championship discussions. Is it easier to simply 'walk away' from something historically dominant in or stay and rebuild? I'm sure we will know sooner than later ....


----------



## Cream puff

GoWest said:


> I've heard that for the last few months so I'm with you....is it just a rumor?
> 
> Surf may be dealing with an identity crisis? Really only competitive this season in u14 and u16 ECNL (throw in u15 and NAL) when historically the club was more often than not in the National Championship discussions. Is it easier to simply 'walk away' from something historically dominant in or stay and rebuild? I'm sure we will know sooner than later ....


The Rumor is becoming TRUE! Surf SD lost ECNL.


----------



## Really!?!

Cream puff said:


> The Rumor is becoming TRUE! Surf SD lost ECNL.


WARNING before anyone believes and acts upon this information, please check with Surf or ECNL first.  Cream puff’s account was just started to ask specifically about this issue.

Makes me wonder who this Cream puff might be.


----------



## outside!

Trust and verify...


----------



## Nefutous

Cream puff said:


> The Rumor is becoming TRUE! Surf SD lost ECNL.


Cream Puff is on this thread right now so maybe he/she wont mind sharing the source of this information?


----------



## Desert Hound

Rumors. That is what forums are for. 

Speaking of DA, ECNL and tracksuits, here is a good one. 

So Sereno merged with Legacy in AZ and now are called RSL-AZ. They got DA. 

So during the first DA ID session the main guy at the club was talking up DA saying how great it is. He then went on to say how lucky the club was due to the fact they were one of the few in the nation that had both DA and ECNL. So if your DD doesn't want DA, there is always ECNL. Some parent asked about DA2/DPL. He quickly responded and said DPL is nothing, not even sanctioned, not worth the clubs time and effort. The club has ECNL after all and that is just a hair below DA. 

Fast forward 1 week to the next ID session. Earlier that day the club found out it LOST ECNL. So the same guy is up there talking to parents. Now he is telling them ECNL is on the way out nationally, it is not terribly good anyway and the club is lucky that we have DPL, a league that is FAR superior to ECNL. 

Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago. In the process of talking up DPL as the pathway to DA, he goes on to state that they walked away from ECNL (vs the truth of it being taken away). 

Someone should have asked him if DPL has a patch like DA and ECNL does.


----------



## GoWest

Really!?! said:


> WARNING before anyone believes and acts upon this information, please check with Surf or ECNL first.  Cream puff’s account was just started to ask specifically about this issue.
> 
> Makes me wonder who this Cream puff might be.


Confirmed.


----------



## Cream puff

GoWest said:


> Confirmed.


Thank you!!


----------



## Desert Hound

GoWest said:


> Confirmed.


Where?


----------



## broshark

GoWest said:


> Confirmed.



This confirmation will come as a shock to all those players on the new ECNL teams, including all the ones who played as Surf ECNL at Man City.


----------



## Fact

broshark said:


> This confirmation will come as a shock to all those players on the new ECNL teams, including all the ones who played as Surf ECNL at Man City.


Are you saying that Surf will not have ECNL for the upcoming season that starts in a few months and for which they have already had tryouts OR are you saying it will not be around for the following season of 2019-2020?


----------



## jayjay

Desert Hound said:


> Rumors. That is what forums are for.
> 
> Speaking of DA, ECNL and tracksuits, here is a good one.
> 
> So Sereno merged with Legacy in AZ and now are called RSL-AZ. They got DA.
> 
> So during the first DA ID session the main guy at the club was talking up DA saying how great it is. He then went on to say how lucky the club was due to the fact they were one of the few in the nation that had both DA and ECNL. So if your DD doesn't want DA, there is always ECNL. Some parent asked about DA2/DPL. He quickly responded and said DPL is nothing, not even sanctioned, not worth the clubs time and effort. The club has ECNL after all and that is just a hair below DA.
> 
> Fast forward 1 week to the next ID session. Earlier that day the club found out it LOST ECNL. So the same guy is up there talking to parents. Now he is telling them ECNL is on the way out nationally, it is not terribly good anyway and the club is lucky that we have DPL, a league that is FAR superior to ECNL.
> 
> Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago. In the process of talking up DPL as the pathway to DA, he goes on to state that they walked away from ECNL (vs the truth of it being taken away).
> 
> Someone should have asked him if DPL has a patch like DA and ECNL does.



BE is just concerned about the players..... HAHAHAHA!  His title should be Salesman.


----------



## broshark

Fact said:


> Are you saying that Surf will not have ECNL for the upcoming season that starts in a few months and for which they have already had tryouts OR are you saying it will not be around for the following season of 2019-2020?


I'm saying Surf hasn't lost ECNL, at least not as far as any current ECNL teams are aware.  I have no knowledge of anything beyond this upcoming season.


----------



## Fact

broshark said:


> I'm saying Surf hasn't lost ECNL, at least not as far as any current ECNL teams are aware.  I have no knowledge of anything beyond this upcoming season.


You are talking in circles.


----------



## broshark

Fact said:


> You are talking in circles.


I don't think I am.  What I'm saying is that if SD Surf lost ECNL, nobody on next year's ECNL teams is aware of it.


----------



## Soccer

Surf has been told, 2018-19 will be the last of both.  They will have to pick one or the other next Spring.  Unless this has changed since Monday.

So let’s take the disscusion further, what if they choose ECNL?  Blues chooses ECNL, Slammers stays.  Is ECNL not a more viable choice?

DA is becoming regionally strong, not nationally next year.  ECNL will be strong everywhere except So Cal and Texas next year.  

Would this be a ground breaking decision? An outside of the box decision? Or death for Surf?


----------



## tugs

With US soccer holding DA playoffs for next 5 yrs at Oceanside fields, I'm guessing they'll stick with DA


----------



## El Clasico

tugs said:


> With US soccer holding DA playoffs for next 5 yrs at Oceanside fields, I'm guessing they'll stick with DA


That does put the them in one hell of a predicament.


----------



## doubled

El Clasico said:


> That does put the them in one hell of a predicament.


Follow the money.....simple as that.


----------



## Soccer

Contracts can be broken. Plus the Oceanside Complex is more separate from  Surf Soccer than Del Mar is. 

That being said its a theoretical question only?  I don't think they would have the balls to be a visionary.


----------



## broshark

Soccer said:


> Surf has been told, 2018-19 will be the last of both.  They will have to pick one or the other next Spring.  Unless this has changed since Monday.
> 
> So let’s take the disscusion further, what if they choose ECNL?  Blues chooses ECNL, Slammers stays.  Is ECNL not a more viable choice?
> 
> DA is becoming regionally strong, not nationally next year.  ECNL will be strong everywhere except So Cal and Texas next year.
> 
> Would this be a ground breaking decision? An outside of the box decision? Or death for Surf?


This makes more sense than "Surf has lost ECNL".  Seems like the writing is on the wall for DA unless the dual clubs in So Cal all go that way.  But wouldn't it be funny for the other clubs in SD which finally felt like they had made it (LA Galaxy SD, Albion etc.) if Surf and Blues went back to ECNL?


----------



## Soccer

broshark said:


> This makes more sense than "Surf has lost ECNL".  Seems like the writing is on the wall for DA unless the dual clubs in So Cal all go that way.  But wouldn't it be funny for the other clubs in SD which finally felt like they had made it (LA Galaxy SD, Albion etc.) if Surf and Blues went back to ECNL?


Exactly my point!


----------



## Penalty Kicks Stink

Soccer said:


> Exactly my point!


What happens when Blues merges with a larger club in OC that doesnt have ECNL


----------



## Fact

broshark said:


> This makes more sense than "Surf has lost ECNL".  Seems like the writing is on the wall for DA unless the dual clubs in So Cal all go that way.  But wouldn't it be funny for the other clubs in SD which finally felt like they had made it (LA Galaxy SD, Albion etc.) if Surf and Blues went back to ECNL?


Surf will pick DA. You're a dreamer if you think otherwise.


----------



## outside!

Fact said:


> Surf will pick DA. You're a dreamer if you think otherwise.


I would tend to agree, but we are talking about club soccer so who knows?


----------



## LASTMAN14

outside! said:


> I would tend to agree, but we are talking about club soccer so who knows?


Best to discuss “who knows” questions over a beer. Because when your done “you don’t care”.


----------



## broshark

Fact said:


> Surf will pick DA. You're a dreamer if you think otherwise.


They'll pick whichever program looks like it's going to be the most prestigious going forward.  At the rate DA clubs are dropping across the country, it may not be such a clear choice this time next year.


----------



## outside!

I wonder what would happen if DA mandated that clubs need to offer both DA and GDA? Before GDA an argument could be made that the fully funded DA clubs were violating California's "Fair Play" act.


----------



## Fact

outside! said:


> I wonder what would happen if DA mandated that clubs need to offer both DA and GDA? Before GDA an argument could be made that the fully funded DA clubs were violating California's "Fair Play" act.


Especially the ones that used city/county fields.

You really need to have another kid (and make sure  it is a girl) so you having standing to challenge some of these issues you keep pointing out. Very valid points.


----------



## outside!

Fact said:


> Especially the ones that used city/county fields.
> 
> You really need to have another kid (and make sure  it is a girl) so you having standing to challenge some of these issues you keep pointing out. Very valid points.


There is not a soccer club out there that does not use public fields at some point.

Youngest is a male, so no go on standing. Besides, in addition to standing, you need to be able to pay the lawyers, court fees, etc. I did explore the court option earlier, but could not find any lawyers that were interested. I let CIFSD know they were violating Title IX, but they don't care. The reason I do keep bringing it up is in case someone else has the needed resources and desire but hadn't thought of it.


----------



## B.B.

I’m interested to hear more...


----------



## Desert Hound

broshark said:


> They'll pick whichever program looks like it's going to be the most prestigious going forward.  At the rate DA clubs are dropping across the country, it may not be such a clear choice this time next year.


DA can easily solve the problem of clubs dropping.

When you read why clubs drop it gets back to no HS soccer, then sub rules, then dual band.

For DA to stop the defections allow HS soccer at a min. That takes care of the majority of the problems clubs have. Put in ECNL style sub rules and that solves almost all the problems.

It seems to be an easy fix. They wanted to take the boys system and drop it on the girls. Seems like the girls want something a bit different. 

Can they admit they they have an issue and make the necessary changes? Who knows. But they sure are doing a good job of making sure ECNL stays more than viable.


----------



## espola

Desert Hound said:


> DA can easily solve the problem of clubs dropping.
> 
> When you read why clubs drop it gets back to no HS soccer, then sub rules, then dual band.
> 
> For DA to stop the defections allow HS soccer at a min. That takes care of the majority of the problems clubs have. Put in ECNL style sub rules and that solves almost all the problems.
> 
> It seems to be an easy fix. They wanted to take the boys system and drop it on the girls. Seems like the girls want something a bit different.
> 
> Can they admit they they have an issue and make the necessary changes? Who knows. But they sure are doing a good job of making sure ECNL stays more than viable.


Why girls DA might want to do something different -- WNT has world-class success without any DA program; women's college programs have no problem finding good players, and good players have no problems finding college programs they like; the US women's pro circuits are not attractive to young college graduates.

What problem is DA trying to solve?


----------



## Soccer

Desert Hound said:


> DA can easily solve the problem of clubs dropping.
> 
> When you read why clubs drop it gets back to no HS soccer, then sub rules, then dual band.
> 
> For DA to stop the defections allow HS soccer at a min. That takes care of the majority of the problems clubs have. Put in ECNL style sub rules and that solves almost all the problems.
> 
> It seems to be an easy fix. They wanted to take the boys system and drop it on the girls. Seems like the girls want something a bit different.
> 
> Can they admit they they have an issue and make the necessary changes? Who knows. But they sure are doing a good job of making sure ECNL stays more than viable.



Oh wait, then you have what ECNL already provided!


----------



## outside!

Soccer said:


> Oh wait, then you have what ECNL already provided!


Without the San Diego county Surf monopoly.


----------



## Desert Hound

Soccer said:


> Oh wait, then you have what ECNL already provided!


I know. Back to something that seemed to have been working rather well 

It won't quite be the same though. The patch is different.


----------



## LASTMAN14

espola said:


> Why girls DA might want to do something different -- WNT has world-class success without any DA program; women's college programs have no problem finding good players, and good players have no problems finding college programs they like; the US women's pro circuits are not attractive to young college graduates.
> 
> What problem is DA trying to solve?


E, I just got a headache reading through your logic. Got any aspirin?


----------



## broshark

outside! said:


> Without the San Diego county Surf monopoly.


It would be a bit awkward if Surf went back to straight ECNL and had Sharks 5 miles away doing the same thing.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I firmly believe the real issue driving a few clubs to leave DA and to focus full time on ECNL is money and that ECNL likely gives them a opportunity to make more money.


----------



## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> I firmly believe the real issue driving a few clubs to leave DA and to focus full time on ECNL is money and that ECNL likely gives them a opportunity to make more money.


Captain Obvious strikes again. $ drives all decisions for DA and ECNL as well as almost all soccer clubs.


----------



## futboldad1

Simisoccerfan said:


> I firmly believe the real issue driving a few clubs to leave DA and to focus full time on ECNL is money and that ECNL likely gives them a opportunity to make more money.


You "firmly believe"? Last time it was the "Eastern forums" you claimed were saying this. But you ignored the request to post a link. Wonder why.....

Yup, soccer clubs and and soccer organizations want to make money. But saying ECNL is more guilty of that than DA is something you need actual evidence for.  You just promoting everything DA and tearing down everything else with make-believe just doesn't cut it.


----------



## Soccer43

Simi loves the DA because his DD got a chance to play in the big league when it wasn't happening before with just ECNL. Eveything that is "great" about the DA was already there in ECNL and better honestly.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Soccer43 said:


> Simi loves the DA because his DD got a chance to play in the big league when it wasn't happening before with just ECNL. Eveything that is "great" about the DA was already there in ECNL and better honestly.


Almost.....


----------



## Soccer

Soccer43 said:


> Simi loves the DA. Everything that is "great" about the DA was already there in ECNL and better honestly.



He and Beach Parents, LAPFC Parents, Legends Parents, LA Galaxy SD Parents, Albion Parents not that their kids were not good enough, just drinking the drink.

Honesty ECNL should of been more stringent on performance, coaching licenses and kicked clubs out who were not performing.   

I hope DA does this, why do clubs like PSV Nor Cal belong, look a their goal differential.  Give them a 3 year period, if not better clubs got to go that are keeping up.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Soccer said:


> He and Beach Parents, LAPFC Parents, Legends Parents, LA Galaxy SD Parents, Albion Parents not that their kids were not good enough, just drinking the drink.
> 
> Honesty ECNL should of been more stringent on performance, coaching licenses and kicked clubs out who were not performing.


If your gonna call out Beach Parents you must know how long Beach tried getting into ECNL, but the collective group of ECNL teams in soCal held them and Legends out.  Being one of these Beach parents (one who feels of ECNL provides more geographic representation GDA would most likely not exhist).  It is irritating and somewhat offensive to be generalized and labeled as a “koolaide drinker”.  Money and Politics are the main reason we are in this situation. 

I want what is best for my DD’s and at this moment in time GDA is the sole vehicle available to us that provides the training, exposure and social environment that has helped my oldest thrive and given my youngest a renewed determination to improve and be a better player.

Why does this discussion have to be so polarizing?


----------



## espola

Soccer said:


> He and Beach Parents, LAPFC Parents, Legends Parents, LA Galaxy SD Parents, Albion Parents not that their kids were not good enough, just drinking the drink.
> 
> Honesty ECNL should of been more stringent on performance, coaching licenses and kicked clubs out who were not performing.
> 
> I hope DA does this, why do clubs like PSV Nor Cal belong, look a their goal differential.  Give them a 3 year period, if not better clubs got to go that are keeping up.


Grammatical history --  "should have" -> "should've" -> "should of".


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Actually we never tried out for ECNL.  We stayed loyal to our home town club too long.  And my post about ECNL was not a knock at it. They have a great model that I believe also works economically better for clubs.  With less practice days and a shorter season my guess would be that they pay less in training fees to coaches.  Without dual age brackets they also have more teams to collect fees from.


----------



## Dummy

Kicker4Life said:


> If your gonna call out Beach Parents you must know how long Beach tried getting into ECNL, but the collective group of ECNL teams in soCal held them and Legends out.  Being one of these Beach parents (one who feels of ECNL provides more geographic representation GDA would most likely not exhist).  It is irritating and somewhat offensive to be generalized and labeled as a “koolaide drinker”.  Money and Politics are the main reason we are in this situation.
> 
> I want what is best for my DD’s and at this moment in time GDA is the sole vehicle available to us that provides the training, exposure and social environment that has helped my oldest thrive and given my youngest a renewed determination to improve and be a better player.
> 
> Why does this discussion have to be so polarizing?


Beach and Legends are strong clubs that produced ECNL quality teams and D1 players long before GDA.  I do agree that it seems like it would have been more difficult for US Soccer to organize GDA without these two clubs.  The others listed probably don’t belong.

The reason for the polarized discussion is because of the narcissism of petty differences.  There are no big differences between ECNL and GDA so everyone fights intensely over the little ones.  As it currently stands, both leagues have some very good teams at the top of the table and some not so good teams at the bottom.  Both leagues ask parents to pay way too much to play games outside of Southern California instead of playing local teams from the other league that are at the same level.

As a result, there are arguments about high school and practice time and substitution rules - each of these will be interpreted differently depending on each player’s circumstances.  If a player’s high school program is a disaster, she may not miss it playing GDA.  If her high school program is worthwhile, she will be glad she is in ECNL.  And what high level player is really only practicing three nights a week?

For better or worse, most players need to play their soccer close to where they live.  All one can hope is that the local program fits your player’s needs.

My guess is that players at Beach and Legends are no better now than they were before GDA - which means they are still great!


----------



## Fact

Dummy said:


> Beach and Legends are strong clubs that produced ECNL quality teams and D1 players long before GDA.  I do agree that it seems like it would have been more difficult for US Soccer to organize GDA without these two clubs.  The others listed probably don’t belong.
> 
> The reason for the polarized discussion is because of the narcissism of petty differences.  There are no big differences between ECNL and GDA so everyone fights intensely over the little ones.  As it currently stands, both leagues have some very good teams at the top of the table and some not so good teams at the bottom.  Both leagues ask parents to pay way too much to play games outside of Southern California instead of playing local teams from the other league that are at the same level.
> 
> As a result, there are arguments about high school and practice time and substitution rules - each of these will be interpreted differently depending on each player’s circumstances.  If a player’s high school program is a disaster, she may not miss it playing GDA.  If her high school program is worthwhile, she will be glad she is in ECNL.  And what high level player is really only practicing three nights a week?
> 
> For better or worse, most players need to play their soccer close to where they live.  All one can hope is that the local program fits your player’s needs.
> 
> My guess is that players at Beach and Legends are no better now than they were before GDA - which means they are still great!


As always, for a Dummy you are pretty smart.  To bad most parents don’t get this and bypass multiple worthy clubs in the hopes of getting a golden ticket.


----------



## Soccer

Soccer said:


> Surf has been told, 2018-19 will be the last of both.  They will have to pick one or the other next Spring.  Unless this has changed since Monday.
> 
> So let’s take the disscusion further, what if they choose ECNL?  Blues chooses ECNL, Slammers stays.  Is ECNL not a more viable choice?
> 
> DA is becoming regionally strong, not nationally next year.  ECNL will be strong everywhere except So Cal and Texas next year.
> 
> Would this be a ground breaking decision? An outside of the box decision? Or death for Surf?



Well, I found out Surf is not being forthright.  

They will not have ECNL next year and are scrambling to broker a deal with SD Force that Force would be given the ECNL Franchise, but the teams would train at Polo and be Surf teams.  I can’t make this stuff up.  

Also hear SDSC may be given ECNL.  But that is second hand.


----------



## Fact

Soccer said:


> Well, I found out Surf is not being forthright.
> 
> They will not have ECNL next year and are scrambling to broker a deal with SD Force that Force would be given the ECNL Franchise, but the teams would train at Polo and be Surf teams.  I can’t make this stuff up.
> 
> Also hear SDSC may be given ECNL.  But that is second hand.


Please define “next year.” Do you mean in a few months or a
year from now?

Why pick Force? The brothers did not leave Surf in a good way, I believe even leaving some of the Surf teams without a coach for a few months.  Plus does Surf really want joysticking coaches? Does not help the brand image.


----------



## espola

Soccer said:


> Well, I found out Surf is not being forthright.


----------



## G03_SD

Fact said:


> Please define “next year.” Do you mean in a few months or a
> year from now?
> 
> Why pick Force? The brothers did not leave Surf in a good way, I believe even leaving some of the Surf teams without a coach for a few months.  Plus does Surf really want joysticking coaches? Does not help the brand image.


Surf will do anything to keep ECNL. That's a lot of $$ to give up.


----------



## Soccer

Fact said:


> Please define “next year.” Do you mean in a few months or a
> year from now?
> 
> Why pick Force? The brothers did not leave Surf in a good way, I believe even leaving some of the Surf teams without a coach for a few months.  Plus does Surf really want joysticking coaches? Does not help the brand image.


In a few months.  Not sure why pick Force, but that is who they are talking too.


----------



## timbuck

Soccer said:


> In a few months.  Not sure why pick Force, but that is who they are talking too.


Why not let OC Surf/West Coast keep DA and have SD Surf keep ECNL. 
Isn’t that what slammers and lafc are kinda doing?
I’m sure they can find some kind of loophole to make it happen. (And by “it”- I mean keep or make more money)


----------



## Desert Hound

Soccer said:


> In a few months.  Not sure why pick Force, but that is who they are talking too.


So the club specifically told you that they lost ECNL?


----------



## broshark

Soccer said:


> Well, I found out Surf is not being forthright.
> 
> They will not have ECNL next year and are scrambling to broker a deal with SD Force that Force would be given the ECNL Franchise, but the teams would train at Polo and be Surf teams.  I can’t make this stuff up.
> 
> Also hear SDSC may be given ECNL.  But that is second hand.



I heard GPS will get ECNL.  They're already using the Polo Fields as their home field this year and only have a few teams so Surf can keep all their teams in tact and GPS will just add their few good teams to the program.

What do I win?  Is that story as likely as yours?


----------



## sdklutz

Whatever the situation is here it is unfortunate for the girls impacted by all of this. It seems like the only thing consistent over the 5 years of club soccer for my DD has been chaos. Whether it be club mergers, new leagues, birth year changes, field issues and lots of politics.  Hard to teach/learn a team game under these circumstances...


----------



## Soccer

broshark said:


> I heard GPS will get ECNL.  They're already using the Polo Fields as their home field this year and only have a few teams so Surf can keep all their teams in tact and GPS will just add their few good teams to the program.
> 
> What do I win?  Is that story as likely as yours?



Nothing.  It is sad that the club is not being truthful with parents that have paid a deposit already for ECNL at Surf, when whether is is GPS or Force, it is something other than what they signed up for. 

To many snakes in club soccer, just sad.


----------



## timbuck

Soccer said:


> Nothing.  It is sad that the club is not being truthful with parents that have paid a deposit already for ECNL at Surf, when whether is is GPS or Force, it is something other than what they signed up for.
> 
> To many snakes in club soccer, just sad.


I don't feel like (most) people involved in soccer are trying to screw things up as bad as they have.  Everyone just operates in such a vacuum that they can't see any downstream impacts on decisions that they make.
I'd love to sit in a strategy meeting at a club like Surf or at an ECNL or DA Board Meeting to observe how they make decisions.
We might need to bring in some more "business people", because the "Soccer people" at the youth level can't seem to get out of their own way.


----------



## Fact

timbuck said:


> Why not let OC Surf/West Coast keep DA and have SD Surf keep ECNL.
> Isn’t that what slammers and lafc are kinda doing?
> I’m sure they can find some kind of loophole to make it happen. (And by “it”- I mean keep or make more money)


Because several Board members at SD Surf have 03 and 04
dds.


----------



## Fact

broshark said:


> I heard GPS will get ECNL.  They're already using the Polo Fields as their home field this year and only have a few teams so Surf can keep all their teams in tact and GPS will just add their few good teams to the program.
> 
> What do I win?  Is that story as likely as yours?


Is GPS playing Presidio under Surf’s name since they did not even try to get into Presidio? I can’t find anything on the number of teams they have.


----------



## Fact

timbuck said:


> I don't feel like (most) people involved in soccer are trying to screw things up as bad as they have.  Everyone just operates in such a vacuum that they can't see any downstream impacts on decisions that they make.
> I'd love to sit in a strategy meeting at a club like Surf or at an ECNL or DA Board Meeting to observe how they make decisions.
> We might need to bring in some more "business people", because the "Soccer people" at the youth level can't seem to get out of their own way.


Wrong you have it backwards. The reason they screw it up is because the “business people” are looking to make quick $.  They don’t care about soccer other than for the sake of advancing their own kid (Surf) it it makes them money.


----------



## Toepoke

When I hear that Club "XX" is supposed to get ECNL or DA it's usually parent generated and doesn't happen. ECNL is pretty tight-lipped about who they are really considering before they announce who's in. Not much was said about FC Breakers before they were accepted and prior to GDA there were always rumors about Legends gaining acceptance. They probably should have been accepted but despite all the rumors it never happened.


----------



## timbuck

Fact said:


> Wrong you have it backwards. The reason they screw it up is because the “business people” are looking to make quick $.  They don’t care about soccer other than for the sake of advancing their own kid (Surf) it it makes them money.


Maybe you are right.  It just seems that nobody is looking more than 1 foot in front of their face with any decision lately.


----------



## outside!

So let's run some scenarios. If Surf gives up ECNL and SD Force and possibly SDSC


Fact said:


> Because several Board members at SD Surf have 03 and 04
> dds.


Wait. Do you mean that Surf BOD members would manipulate things to benefit their own children? Shocking!


----------



## broshark

Fact said:


> Is GPS playing Presidio under Surf’s name since they did not even try to get into Presidio? I can’t find anything on the number of teams they have.



No idea.  I just threw them out because it seems as likely as Surf "giving" Force their ECNL.


----------



## Fact

broshark said:


> I heard GPS will get ECNL.  They're already using the Polo Fields as their home field this year and only have a few teams so Surf can keep all their teams in tact and GPS will just add their few good teams to the program.
> 
> What do I win?  Is that story as likely as yours?


So you don't have a clue and just made this up? Are you mental?


----------



## broshark

Fact said:


> So you don't have a clue and just made this up? Are you mental?


Yes, and no.

I don't believe anyone here who says Surf has already "lost" ECNL.  I think it's made up.


----------



## broshark

outside! said:


> So let's run some scenarios. If Surf gives up ECNL and SD Force and possibly SDSC
> 
> Wait. Do you mean that Surf BOD members would manipulate things to benefit their own children? Shocking!


Is it a given that DA is more valuable than ECNL in the long run?  I'm not sure that's the case.


----------



## espola

broshark said:


> Is it a given that DA is more valuable than ECNL in the long run?  I'm not sure that's the case.


What value are you looking for?


----------



## Soccer43

espola said:


> What value are you looking for?


for us, on any level it has not been demonstrated that DA is more valuable


----------



## espola

Soccer43 said:


> for us, on any level it has not been demonstrated that DA is more valuable


After a decade or so, the boys side of the DA has failed in its stated objective of improving the production of world-class players.  Is that the sort of thing you are looking for?


----------



## Soccer43

after all the hype I would think any area of value would be good but in my opinion looks like a fail all around.


----------



## broshark

espola said:


> What value are you looking for?


I was just asking for clarity on the claim that Surf BOD's were making moves to benefit their kids by steering Surf towards DA and leaving OC Surf/West Coast with "just" ECNL.  If it's not clear that DA is "the" path going forward, I was just wondering why people would assume this is what's happening.  BTW, I don't doubt that the BOD at Surf, and at every club, makes moves that try to benefit their kids.


----------



## Fact

broshark said:


> I was just asking for clarity on the claim that Surf BOD's were making moves to benefit their kids by steering Surf towards DA and leaving OC Surf/West Coast with "just" ECNL.


Who is making the claim that Surf is steering West Coast with just ECNL?  If you have not figured it out yest, West Coast only has DA this year and not ECNL.


----------



## Lambchop

Soccer43 said:


> after all the hype I would think any area of value would be good but in my opinion looks like a fail all around.


After 10 months on the girls side that is a pretty quick judgement.


----------



## futboldad1

Lambchop said:


> After 10 months on the girls side that is a pretty quick judgement.


It's quick but given that USSF cares immeasurably more about boys, that the boys DA has utterly failed at producing the "world class" talent they like to talk about, that the girls DA offers no surface benefits for college entry, and that the girls DA has had a rocky first year...it's likely he'll be proven more right than wrong but time will tell.


----------



## Desert Hound

Fact said:


> Who is making the claim that Surf is steering West Coast with just ECNL?  If you have not figured it out yest, West Coast only has DA this year and not ECNL.


Bingo. That is 100% correct. While their website still has the girls ECNL logo on it, just go look at teams for next year. No ECNL. They specifically list certain teams as DPL. http://ocsurfsoccer.com/girls-2018-19/

I am still curious as to where the info is coming from that says SD Surf lost ECNL for this coming year. I have seen one person say it is so, and another saying it is confirmed, but that is it.


----------



## Desert Hound

futboldad1 said:


> It's quick but given that USSF cares immeasurably more about boys, that the boys DA has utterly failed at producing the "world class" talent they like to talk about, that the girls DA offers no surface benefits for college entry, and that the girls DA has had a rocky first year...it's likely he'll be proven more right than wrong but time will tell.


I think it is too early to say that boys DA has failed. It only started in 2007. So 11 yrs in at this point. Any boy that went through the full DA system is still rather young at this point. They start what at U12? So if someone went through from that starting age...11 yrs in they would be 22/23? So we are now at that point we we will start to see kids that have gone through the full system. 

I would think that over the next 5-8 yrs is where you will have a chance to start fairly judging the results.


----------



## espola

Desert Hound said:


> I think it is too early to say that boys DA has failed. It only started in 2007. So 11 yrs in at this point. Any boy that went through the full DA system is still rather young at this point. They start what at U12? So if someone went through from that starting age...11 yrs in they would be 22/23? So we are now at that point we we will start to see kids that have gone through the full system.
> 
> I would think that over the next 5-8 yrs is where you will have a chance to start fairly judging the results.


When they started, they advertised their target as 10 years.  Of course, they started with 15- to 18-year-olds, instead of the 10-year-olds that would have made sense with such a declaration.


----------



## Desert Hound

espola said:


> When they started, they advertised their target as 10 years.  Of course, they started with 15- to 18-year-olds, instead of the 10-year-olds that would have made sense with such a declaration.


Yep. If you come in at 15-18 yrs of age when it started...that is not a lot of training in the DA system to make a real judgement of the system. You need to see a series of kids that have come in from the start ie U12 and have gone through the whole thing to see what if any improvement the DA system made/makes.


----------



## futboldad1

Desert Hound said:


> I think it is too early to say that boys DA has failed. It only started in 2007. So 11 yrs in at this point. Any boy that went through the full DA system is still rather young at this point. They start what at U12? So if someone went through from that starting age...11 yrs in they would be 22/23? So we are now at that point we we will start to see kids that have gone through the full system.
> 
> I would think that over the next 5-8 yrs is where you will have a chance to start fairly judging the results.


While I don't disagree with your sentiment, please understand that kids in Europe are making their first team debuts at 16. At 22, 23 they should be either experienced pros or following a different career path;  us considering 23-year-old men as "kids" in the US is a big part of the recreational mentality that continues to hold the USMNT back.


----------



## outside!

futboldad1 said:


> While I don't disagree with your sentiment, please understand that kids in Europe are making their first team debuts at 16. At 22, 23 they should be either experienced pros or following a different career path;  us considering 23-year-old men as "kids" in the US is a big part of the recreational mentality that continues to hold the USMNT back.


This is true, but our system provides a much better path (college degree) for the players that do not turn pro since they have no education to fall back on. Why do you think we have so many English soccer coaches in the US?


----------



## Desert Hound

futboldad1 said:


> While I don't disagree with your sentiment, please understand that kids in Europe are making their first team debuts at 16. At 22, 23 they should be either experienced pros or following a different career path;  us considering 23-year-old men as "kids" in the US is a big part of the recreational mentality that continues to hold the USMNT back.


I fully understand many in Europe have debuts at a much lower age. They however have put in place training systems that they have been refining over the past number of decades. In the US we are way behind and making an attempt (we will see if it works) of putting our own system in place. And yes we need to let these younger players play more. 

We still have a long way to go.


----------



## Soccer43

Lambchop said:


> After 10 months on the girls side that is a pretty quick judgement.


For girls, the majority are looking at college opportunities and maybe a select group for the NWSL (and those that will also need to find other ways to supplement a livable income).  They are not expecting high paying, long professional soccer careers.  The Boys DA and their path is geared toward a different view of "success" or "value".  Girls are looking for different "value" in the DA.  Since college is the objective for most it is easy to assess in one year whether the girls DA has added value to that process.   

In the first year of DA, don't see any improvement in coaches, training, or competitive game opportunities.  College coaches have to split and balance their time between twice as many events that are scheduled on the same dates at opposite ends of the country.  In So Cal we went from 8 ECNL teams to 20 elite level teams ( 7 ECNL teams and 13 DA teams).   That's adding over 200 girls into the Elite level this year and many teams struggling and showing poor to mediocre level of play.  If you look at US Soccer pulling from DA and finding/developing new talent in the YNT pools then that is not happening either.  The same girls are called up, some in DA and some not.  For '02's and '01's they have had to change leagues and teams every year going through a lot of chaos.  If your DD is in high school you need a value for her now and it won't matter the value the DA might bring 10 years from now.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccer43 said:


> For girls, the majority are looking at college opportunities and maybe a select group for the NWSL (and those that will also need to find other ways to supplement a livable income).  They are not expecting high paying, long professional soccer careers.  The Boys DA and their path is geared toward a different view of "success" or "value".  Girls are looking for different "value" in the DA.  Since college is the objective for most it is easy to assess in one year whether the girls DA has added value to that process.
> 
> In the first year of DA, don't see any improvement in coaches, training, or competitive game opportunities.  College coaches have to split and balance their time between twice as many events that are scheduled on the same dates at opposite ends of the country.  In So Cal we went from 8 ECNL teams to 20 elite level teams ( 7 ECNL teams and 13 DA teams).   That's adding over 200 girls into the Elite level this year and many teams struggling and showing poor to mediocre level of play.  If you look at US Soccer pulling from DA and finding/developing new talent in the YNT pools then that is not happening either.  The same girls are called up, some in DA and some not.  For '02's and '01's they have had to change leagues and teams every year going through a lot of chaos.  If your DD is in high school you need a value for her now and it won't matter the value the DA might bring 10 years from now.


That was so true and succinct it was “STRAIGHT UP GANGSTA!!”  I agree 110% with this post (the extra 10% was for the two add shots in my Coffee Bean this morning)!


----------



## broshark

Fact said:


> Who is making the claim that Surf is steering West Coast with just ECNL?  If you have not figured it out yest, West Coast only has DA this year and not ECNL.


Unless I misread, it was suggested in a post above that the SD Surf might be moving to keep DA while pushing ECNL to OC, and that was because SD Surf BOD's was acting in their players' best (selfish) interest.

I've said before here that I've not heard a single person at SD Surf suggest they've lost ECNL.  The only place it's been said is here.


----------



## surfertwins

SD Surf will have ECNL for the 2018/2019 season!


----------



## broshark

surfertwins said:


> SD Surf will have ECNL for the 2018/2019 season!


Of course they will.  Other than on this board, that's never been in question.  This board is funny.


----------



## Fact

broshark said:


> Unless I misread, it was suggested in a post above that the SD Surf might be moving to keep DA while pushing ECNL to OC, and that was because SD Surf BOD's was acting in their players' best (selfish) interest.
> 
> I've said before here that I've not heard a single person at SD Surf suggest they've lost ECNL.  The only place it's been said is here.


You misread? You cannot even find the post where this was said?  Instead you blend several posts together to come up with pure bs. The only thing I said it that the SD Surf BOD acts in their kids best interest and will keep DA.


----------



## broshark

Fact said:


> You misread? You cannot even find the post where this was said?  Instead you blend several posts together to come up with pure bs. The only thing I said it that the SD Surf BOD acts in their kids best interest and will keep DA.


so my question stands - is DA really in their best interest?  Why is that the assumption you're making?

And why are you marking posts dumb?  Pretty sure surfertwins knows first hand what's going on over there today and that his/her players would be directly impacted by a move away from either DA or ECNL.


----------



## Fact

broshark said:


> so my question stands - is DA really in their best interest?  Why is that the assumption you're making?
> 
> And why are you marking posts dumb?  Pretty sure surfertwins knows first hand what's going on over there today and that his/her players would be directly impacted by a move away from either DA or ECNL.


Again with your bs. Where have I ever said DA IS in anyone's best interest?  But I have spoke to a few SD Surf BODs as well as coaches and I know that THEY feel DA is in their kids best interest.


----------



## shales1002

Fact said:


> Again with your bs. Where have I ever said DA IS in anyone's best interest?  But I have spoke to a few SD Surf BODs as well as coaches and I know that THEY feel DA is in their kids best interest.


I said it a while ago, GDA will use SoCal to try to salvage its reputation. For so many top clubs to have jumped ship back to ECNL , I wouldn't be surprised to see the opposite in SoCal. They would need a club like Surf to be "All In" GDA to change the narrative.


----------



## Desert Hound

shales1002 said:


> I said it a while ago, GDA will use SoCal to try to salvage its reputation. For so many top clubs to have jumped ship back to ECNL , I wouldn't be surprised to see the opposite in SoCal. They would need a club like Surf to be "All In" GDA to change the narrative.


Such an easy fix on the girls side. Allow HS soccer, relax sub rules. That would do the trick. The final trick? Single age band.


----------



## GoWest

surfertwins said:


> SD Surf will have ECNL for the 2018/2019 season!


Thanks for the update but was this ever seriously in question for the upcoming season?


----------



## davin

Desert Hound said:


> Such an easy fix on the girls side. Allow HS soccer, relax sub rules. That would do the trick. The final trick? Single age band.


Then it would be ECNL under a different name.


----------



## outside!

davin said:


> Then it would be ECNL under a different name.


With one difference being they would not have leadership that actively colluded with SoCal member clubs DOCs to protect their monopoly or were not smart enough to see the writing on the wall with the impending start of GDA. Now ECNL is scrambling to add clubs in SoCal. GDA is far from perfect, but if it folds we will be left with that same crew in charge and a bunch of new, lower level clubs. My personnel wish would be for GDA and ECNL to fold and we could go back to an expanded National League (you know, earn your place).


----------



## broshark

Fact said:


> Again with your bs. Where have I ever said DA IS in anyone's best interest?  But I have spoke to a few SD Surf BODs as well as coaches and I know that THEY feel DA is in their kids best interest.


That's all I was asking in the first place, lol.


----------



## Dummy

outside! said:


> With one difference being they would not have leadership that actively colluded with SoCal member clubs DOCs to protect their monopoly or were not smart enough to see the writing on the wall with the impending start of GDA. Now ECNL is scrambling to add clubs in SoCal. GDA is far from perfect, but if it folds we will be left with that same crew in charge and a bunch of new, lower level clubs. My personnel wish would be for GDA and ECNL to fold and we could go back to an expanded National League (you know, earn your place).


There is no reason to believe that the GDA DOCs would have behaved any differently if the tables had been turned.  Before they ever played a GDA game, they pulled their B teams from CSL and SCDSL in an effort to form a new monopoly using DPL.  They also had no reservations about placing these B teams in CRL using invitations that their A teams had won.  There were so many shameless decisions made in during the GDA powergrab.

I have the same wish as you for both GDA and ECNL in the benefit of a better youth soccer experience for So Cal players.  Unfortunately, there is no going back now that both revenue streams are established.  US Soccer will not be moving forward in a European promotion relegation model but in a distinctly MLS “protect the franchise” model.  The drift toward mediocrity is tolerable.  It is the pretension that is aggravating.


----------



## Fact

broshark said:


> so my question stands - is DA really in their best interest?  Why is that the assumption you're making?
> 
> And why are you marking posts dumb?  Pretty sure surfertwins knows first hand what's going on over there today and that his/her players would be directly impacted by a move away from either DA or ECNL.


Again you make bs up like GPS is going with Surf and will have ECNL. I just make yours as dumb because they are dumb and lead to wild speculation.  And if you had bothered looking I marked Surfertwins post with a Like because I know he/she had truthful information that is beneficial.


----------



## Fact

outside! said:


> With one difference being they would not have leadership that actively colluded with SoCal member clubs DOCs to protect their monopoly or were not smart enough to see the writing on the wall with the impending start of GDA. Now ECNL is scrambling to add clubs in SoCal. GDA is far from perfect, but if it folds we will be left with that same crew in charge and a bunch of new, lower level clubs. My personnel wish would be for GDA and ECNL to fold and we could go back to an expanded National League (you know, earn your place).





Dummy said:


> There is no reason to believe that the GDA DOCs would have behaved any differently if the tables had been turned.  Before they ever played a GDA game, they pulled their B teams from CSL and SCDSL in an effort to form a new monopoly using DPL.  They also had no reservations about placing these B teams in CRL using invitations that their A teams had won.  There were so many shameless decisions made in during the GDA powergrab.


While I would like to agree with Outside about the ECNL monopoly Surf has in San Diego, Dummy is exactly right about Albion and LAGSD acting no differently by pulling their B teams to create the wannabe DPL and LAGSD even giving their B team the CRL spot earned by their A team.  Unfortunately for most clubs this is just a business and they don’t care who they step on to make $.


----------



## Dummy

Fact said:


> While I would like to agree with Outside about the ECNL monopoly Surf has in San Diego, Dummy is exactly right about Albion and LAGSD acting no differently by pulling their B teams to create the wannabe DPL and LAGSD even giving their B team the CRL spot earned by their A team.  Unfortunately for most clubs this is just a business and they don’t care who they step on to make $.


To be fair, the biggest hypocrites of all are are farther north at Legends and Beach.  They had this done to them by So Cal ECNL and then they immediately go all in doing it to others with DPL.


----------



## Fact

Dummy said:


> To be fair, the biggest hypocrites of all are are farther north at Legends and Beach.  They had this done to them by So Cal ECNL and then they immediately go all in doing it to others with DPL.


Ok they all are hypocrites.


----------



## outside!

There is a subtle difference. ECNL was a national organization colluding with local clubs. DPL is local clubs colluding with each other.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Dummy said:


> To be fair, the biggest hypocrites of all are are farther north at Legends and Beach.  They had this done to them by So Cal ECNL and then they immediately go all in doing it to others with DPL.


How is ECNL voting not to add clubs the same as the formation of DPL?


----------



## Dummy

Kicker4Life said:


> How is ECNL voting not to add clubs the same as the formation of DPL?


It is not the same.  It is just hypocritical.

Beach and Legends had some strong teams that they rightfully wanted playing ECNL level teams, and ECNL kept the league closed on them for whatever competitive advantage the ECNL clubs perceived at the time, like by being able to market your ECNL team that is not as good as a strong Beach or Legends team as better because they are ECNL.

As soon as they are on the inside of the closed GDA group, they pull their less strong teams into a different closed league for whatever competitive advantage they perceived at the time, like by being able to market your DPL team that is not as good as the CSL Premier or SCDSL Flight 1 teams in the leagues they left as better because they are DPL.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dummy said:


> It is not the same.  It is just hypocritical.
> 
> Beach and Legends had some strong teams that they rightfully wanted playing ECNL level teams, and ECNL kept the league closed on them for whatever competitive advantage the ECNL clubs perceived at the time, like by being able to market your ECNL team that is not as good as a strong Beach or Legends team as better because they are ECNL.
> 
> As soon as they are on the inside of the closed GDA group, they pull their less strong teams into a different closed league for whatever competitive advantage they perceived at the time, like by being able to market your DPL team that is not as good as the CSL Premier or SCDSL Flight 1 teams in the leagues they left as better because they are DPL.


Close but speaking as someone who has a kid in club when ECNL was formed that is not at all why Beach and Legends were excluded from ECNL.

Initially they had no track record of success on the national level.  All of the initial 8 SoCal Clubs and 4 clubs in Vegas and Arizona had won a national championship at some level in the girls side prior to being admitted to ECNL.  Beach and Legends only started winning championships once the ECNL teams no longer competed in USYS events.  

Basically they are new money and they got declined when they tried to join the old money country club.  Guess what.  Due to SCDSL they got to go nuts with teams (CSL restricted teams to 3 max per age group at the time) win some phony national championships and get into the new country club.  Now they are doing the same thing and the parents are acting frankly worse than the ECNL parents and their claims of elite are hilarious considering how much more diluted things are now.

Forget the phony leagues and focus on your player it will pay the biggest dividends.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MakeAPlay said:


> Forget the phony leagues and focus on your player it will pay the biggest dividends.  Good luck to you and your player.


Best advice on this forum!


----------



## Dummy

MakeAPlay said:


> Close but speaking as someone who has a kid in club when ECNL was formed that is not at all why Beach and Legends were excluded from ECNL.
> 
> Initially they had no track record of success on the national level.  All of the initial 8 SoCal Clubs and 4 clubs in Vegas and Arizona had won a national championship at some level in the girls side prior to being admitted to ECNL.  Beach and Legends only started winning championships once the ECNL teams no longer competed in USYS events.
> 
> Basically they are new money and they got declined when they tried to join the old money country club.  Guess what.  Due to SCDSL they got to go nuts with teams (CSL restricted teams to 3 max per age group at the time) win some phony national championships and get into the new country club.  Now they are doing the same thing and the parents are acting frankly worse than the ECNL parents and their claims of elite are hilarious considering how much more diluted things are now.
> 
> Forget the phony leagues and focus on your player it will pay the biggest dividends.  Good luck to you and your player.


Thank your for your response.  I appreciate the additional history for better context.

You do a better job of expressing the sentiment I was attempting to convey when you write “Now they are doing the same thing and the parents are acting frankly worse.”

I also appreciate your advice and kind words.  Good luck to you and your player as well.


----------



## broshark

Fact said:


> Again you make bs up like GPS is going with Surf and will have ECNL. I just make yours as dumb because they are dumb and lead to wild speculation.  And if you had bothered looking I marked Surfertwins post with a Like because I know he/she had truthful information that is beneficial.



Wait, are you suggesting that stuff on this board is something other speculative?  LOL.  

I've said from the beginning that Surf hasn't "lost" ECNL.  

Did I read that you don't even have kids who play soccer anymore?


----------



## broshark

So what's the word?  I assume Surf did in fact "lose ECNL" as claimed earlier?  Did they give it to force?  Lulz.


----------



## GoWest

broshark said:


> So what's the word?  I assume Surf did in fact "lose ECNL" as claimed earlier?  Did they give it to force?  Lulz.


There's little buzz here and there but nothing more than just that. Nothing with any teeth but next couple of weeks will be telling. With July just around the corner only weeks before start of new season irrespective of league....


----------



## Bruddah IZ

surfertwins said:


> SD Surf will have ECNL for the 2018/2019 season!


Not according to ECNL as of yesterday 7/3/18








http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2018/07/03/the-girls-ecnl-announces-2018-2019-membership/


----------



## oh canada

It just confounds me why the CalSouth clubs can't get together and just form their own leagues.  We have the best talent here, have the best weather here, and most of the best college programs are in the West.  Also some of the best fields in the country with SilverLakes, Irvine, Carson, Oceanside and Polo Fields.

If your kids have gone and played in any "national" tournament, you know that most of the games are not even competitive until you play in the final rounds---likely against another CalSouth team.

Who cares about winning a "national" trophy when winning a CalSouth tournament is actually more challenging (bc the kids are likely facing better teams throughout the brackets).

Make a Tier1 league for the "A" teams, a Tier2 league for the "B" teams, etc.  Have promotion/relegation for the top 3-5 teams in each league.  Charge the parents a little more $ in return for not having to pay thousands of dollars on travel to places we would never CHOOSE to go on vacations.

Control the schedule so each club could have their own one tournament at some point in the year and show concern for the kids' health by having a mandatory 2-month break in December and January.  Also, agree to have tryouts for all clubs after the year-end tournaments in a 1-2 week window.  And, have one college showcase in the summer for all the scouts and coaches to come watch.  The talent is here, the coaches WILL come.

Maybe this is too logical and obvious?  But, all it would take is the biggest 4-5 clubs to get together (Beach, Galaxy, Legends, Galaxy, Surf) and the others will follow.

As a parent, would you be fine giving up the "national" champion quest?  No brainer in my book.


----------



## espola

oh canada said:


> It just confounds me why the CalSouth clubs can't get together and just form their own leagues.  We have the best talent here, have the best weather here, and most of the best college programs are in the West.  Also some of the best fields in the country with SilverLakes, Irvine, Carson, Oceanside and Polo Fields.
> 
> If your kids have gone and played in any "national" tournament, you know that most of the games are not even competitive until you play in the final rounds---likely against another CalSouth team.
> 
> Who cares about winning a "national" trophy when winning a CalSouth tournament is actually more challenging (bc the kids are likely facing better teams throughout the brackets).
> 
> Make a Tier1 league for the "A" teams, a Tier2 league for the "B" teams, etc.  Have promotion/relegation for the top 3-5 teams in each league.  Charge the parents a little more $ in return for not having to pay thousands of dollars on travel to places we would never CHOOSE to go on vacations.
> 
> Control the schedule so each club could have their own one tournament at some point in the year and show concern for the kids' health by having a mandatory 2-month break in December and January.  Also, agree to have tryouts for all clubs after the year-end tournaments in a 1-2 week window.  And, have one college showcase in the summer for all the scouts and coaches to come watch.  The talent is here, the coaches WILL come.
> 
> Maybe this is too logical and obvious?  But, all it would take is the biggest 4-5 clubs to get together (Beach, Galaxy, Legends, Galaxy, Surf) and the others will follow.
> 
> As a parent, would you be fine giving up the "national" champion quest?  No brainer in my book.


Maybe we could give those leagues real SoCal-sounding names with words like Coast, Presidio. San Diego, or Southern California.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

oh canada said:


> It just confounds me why the CalSouth clubs can't get together and just form their own leagues.  We have the best talent here, have the best weather here, and most of the best college programs are in the West.  Also some of the best fields in the country with SilverLakes, Irvine, Carson, Oceanside and Polo Fields.
> 
> If your kids have gone and played in any "national" tournament, you know that most of the games are not even competitive until you play in the final rounds---likely against another CalSouth team.
> 
> Who cares about winning a "national" trophy when winning a CalSouth tournament is actually more challenging (bc the kids are likely facing better teams throughout the brackets).
> 
> Make a Tier1 league for the "A" teams, a Tier2 league for the "B" teams, etc.  Have promotion/relegation for the top 3-5 teams in each league.  Charge the parents a little more $ in return for not having to pay thousands of dollars on travel to places we would never CHOOSE to go on vacations.
> 
> Control the schedule so each club could have their own one tournament at some point in the year and show concern for the kids' health by having a mandatory 2-month break in December and January.  Also, agree to have tryouts for all clubs after the year-end tournaments in a 1-2 week window.  And, have one college showcase in the summer for all the scouts and coaches to come watch.  The talent is here, the coaches WILL come.
> 
> Maybe this is too logical and obvious?  But, all it would take is the biggest 4-5 clubs to get together (Beach, Galaxy, Legends, Galaxy, Surf) and the others will follow.
> 
> As a parent, would you be fine giving up the "national" champion quest?  No brainer in my book.


Travel ball (softball) did that several years ago, now the socal championship is by far the most sought after trophy. Who the hell wants to go east in the middle of summer when everyone would rather go to socal.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

GoWest said:


> There's little buzz here and there but nothing more than just that. Nothing with any teeth but next couple of weeks will be telling. With July just around the corner only weeks before start of new season irrespective of league....


When are the fees due, before or after you know what league you are in?


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Sheriff Joe said:


> When are the fees due, before or after you know what league you are in?


Before of cour$e!!


----------



## timbuck

oh canada said:


> It just confounds me why the CalSouth clubs can't get together and just form their own leagues.  We have the best talent here, have the best weather here, and most of the best college programs are in the West.  Also some of the best fields in the country with SilverLakes, Irvine, Carson, Oceanside and Polo Fields.
> 
> If your kids have gone and played in any "national" tournament, you know that most of the games are not even competitive until you play in the final rounds---likely against another CalSouth team.
> 
> Who cares about winning a "national" trophy when winning a CalSouth tournament is actually more challenging (bc the kids are likely facing better teams throughout the brackets).
> 
> Make a Tier1 league for the "A" teams, a Tier2 league for the "B" teams, etc.  Have promotion/relegation for the top 3-5 teams in each league.  Charge the parents a little more $ in return for not having to pay thousands of dollars on travel to places we would never CHOOSE to go on vacations.
> 
> Control the schedule so each club could have their own one tournament at some point in the year and show concern for the kids' health by having a mandatory 2-month break in December and January.  Also, agree to have tryouts for all clubs after the year-end tournaments in a 1-2 week window.  And, have one college showcase in the summer for all the scouts and coaches to come watch.  The talent is here, the coaches WILL come.
> 
> Maybe this is too logical and obvious?  But, all it would take is the biggest 4-5 clubs to get together (Beach, Galaxy, Legends, Galaxy, Surf) and the others will follow.
> 
> As a parent, would you be fine giving up the "national" champion quest?  No brainer in my book.



You’re hired!!!  I’m not sure what the job is or what organization you’d be running-  but I like the way you think.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Bruddah IZ said:


> Before of cour$e!!


That's bullshit.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Sheriff Joe said:


> That's bullshit.


Caveat emptor.


----------



## MakeAPlay

oh canada said:


> It just confounds me why the CalSouth clubs can't get together and just form their own leagues.  We have the best talent here, have the best weather here, and most of the best college programs are in the West.  Also some of the best fields in the country with SilverLakes, Irvine, Carson, Oceanside and Polo Fields.
> 
> If your kids have gone and played in any "national" tournament, you know that most of the games are not even competitive until you play in the final rounds---likely against another CalSouth team.
> 
> Who cares about winning a "national" trophy when winning a CalSouth tournament is actually more challenging (bc the kids are likely facing better teams throughout the brackets).
> 
> Make a Tier1 league for the "A" teams, a Tier2 league for the "B" teams, etc.  Have promotion/relegation for the top 3-5 teams in each league.  Charge the parents a little more $ in return for not having to pay thousands of dollars on travel to places we would never CHOOSE to go on vacations.
> 
> Control the schedule so each club could have their own one tournament at some point in the year and show concern for the kids' health by having a mandatory 2-month break in December and January.  Also, agree to have tryouts for all clubs after the year-end tournaments in a 1-2 week window.  And, have one college showcase in the summer for all the scouts and coaches to come watch.  The talent is here, the coaches WILL come.
> 
> Maybe this is too logical and obvious?  But, all it would take is the biggest 4-5 clubs to get together (Beach, Galaxy, Legends, Galaxy, Surf) and the others will follow.
> 
> As a parent, would you be fine giving up the "national" champion quest?  No brainer in my book.


You have the wrong clubs listed as the influencers other than Surf.  FYI.


----------



## oh canada

MakeAPlay said:


> You have the wrong clubs listed as the influencers other than Surf.  FYI.


Ok.  But, not really the main point of my post.  You pick 'em.


----------



## oh canada

timbuck said:


> You’re hired!!!  I’m not sure what the job is or what organization you’d be running-  but I like the way you think.


Thanks TBuck.  If I were CalSouth Prez, I'd be doing my best Adam Silver impression and trying to lead the clubs in this direction.  Maybe someone important over there reads these Boards and gets inspired?


----------



## Dos Equis

oh canada said:


> Thanks TBuck.  If I were CalSouth Prez, I'd be doing my best Adam Silver impression and trying to lead the clubs in this direction.  Maybe someone important over there reads these Boards and gets inspired?


You do realize that the clubs rejected this model, as they did not want to cede power to any sanctioning organization, individual nor league (ironic, I know, since they do that in both DA and ECNL).  It was called CSL Premier and Calsoiuth National Cup, and pre-ECNL, was the best circuit and tournament in the US.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dos Equis said:


> You do realize that the clubs rejected this model, as they did not want to cede power to any sanctioning organization, individual nor league (ironic, I know, since they do that in both DA and ECNL).  It was called CSL Premier and Calsoiuth National Cup, and pre-ECNL, was the best circuit and tournament in the US.


Only us old timers remember Pre-ECNL now.


----------



## MakeAPlay

oh canada said:


> Ok.  But, not really the main point of my post.  You pick 'em.


That had that in the past.  Coast Premier League and Far West Regional League.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

MakeAPlay said:


> That had that in the past.  Coast Premier League and Far West Regional League.


National league Far West Regionals?


----------



## espola

Dos Equis said:


> You do realize that the clubs rejected this model, as they did not want to cede power to any sanctioning organization, individual nor league (ironic, I know, since they do that in both DA and ECNL).  It was called CSL Premier and Calsoiuth National Cup, and pre-ECNL, was the best circuit and tournament in the US.


The not-too-subtly-hidden difficulty with CSL Premier was the politics involved with getting "invited".  It was, however, the best youth soccer competition in the country, boys and girls, even after leaving out some of the best teams in Southern California.

Cal South National Cup is still the best State Cup tournament in the USYSA spectrum.


----------



## Dos Equis

Sheriff Joe said:


> National league Far West Regionals?


Far West Regional League had greater Socal participation, as the travel costs where not as prohibitive.  The major issue with FWRL was the scheduling, re-scheduling, and lack of coordination with other leagues and tournaments.  The games were always something we seemed to fit in at the last possible moment.  

I was never a fan of National League -- seemed created by USYS for the other regions to get them better competition.  The primary reason we participated was the potential direct placement into National Cup Finals, an easier path than going through the Socal National Cup tournament grinder.

CSL Premier was the best of all worlds in terms of scheduling, cost and competition, though the combination of politics (mostly due to the subjective nature of the number of teams promoted/relegated each year, and the ocassional direct admittance of teams from other leagues) and clubs trying to game the system (through the returning teams roster qualification) left some teams/clubs unhappy.  But let us not fool ourselves, the clubs who left to create ECNL and later SCDSL did so primarily to avoid the issues the CSL relegation system  created with maintaining their rosters/teams. 

Getting the Socal clubs together and them agreeing to a system that is in the best interests of Socal soccer and our families, and not themselves ... not likely.   I wish USYS, US Club Soccer and US Soccer would create a single, sensible framework and pyramid of competition/leagues, but that is equally unlikely.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Bruddah IZ said:


> Not according to ECNL as of yesterday 7/3/18
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2018/07/03/the-girls-ecnl-announces-2018-2019-membership/


Well, it's a wrap.  Surf is out of ECNL.


----------



## RiverArsenal

Bruddah IZ said:


> Well, it's a wrap.  Surf is out of ECNL.


ECNL in Southern Cal has become a second or third tier league.


----------



## Soccer43

hahahahahaha
is that because Surf is out?


----------



## Fact

Bruddah IZ said:


> Well, it's a wrap.  Surf is out of ECNL.


#Bruddah not sure if you are still with the club, but do you know what the ECNL parents are thinking?  Are they going to accept DPL or try to find another DA or ECNL club?


----------



## surfertwins

I know my daughter and myself would be upset with DPL...  If Surf new there could be ECNL problems then they should of planned better.... CRL or something should of been considered.  The ECNL teams are screwed as of today!


----------



## Soccer43

seems like such a careless attitude to their families and players in the ECNL.  Why wouldn't they be upfront with them and tell them what was happening before the new season starts in a few weeks.


----------



## timbuck

Is it a case of “too many irons in the fire” and someone forgot about their core customer-  which is kids and parents playing at the level that is right for them?


----------



## Bruddah IZ

RiverArsenal said:


> ECNL in Southern Cal has become a second or third tier league.


With a bunch of first tier teams.


----------



## SoccerFrenzy

surfertwins said:


> I know my daughter and myself would be upset with DPL...  If Surf new there could be ECNL problems then they should of planned better.... CRL or something should of been considered.  The ECNL teams are screwed as of today!


Don't your daughters play DA? I thought your 05 Surf team was DA and not ECNL


----------



## Fact

surfertwins said:


> I know my daughter and myself would be upset with DPL...  If Surf new there could be ECNL problems then they should of planned better.... CRL or something should of been considered.  The ECNL teams are screwed as of today!


Great point about CRL.  The Surf ECNL teams would have all most likely gotten in. What a lost opportunity especially at the older age groups.


----------



## surfertwins

I have one on each team!


----------



## Fact

Soccer43 said:


> seems like such a careless attitude to their families and players in the ECNL.  Why wouldn't they be upfront with them and tell them what was happening before the new season starts in a few weeks.


Because all of their dds are on DA teams.


----------



## Fact

surfertwins said:


> I have one on each team!


Wow sorry that sucks.


----------



## SoccerFrenzy

surfertwins said:


> I have one on each team!


I am sorry, that will be tough. Not right that Surf wasn't up front. Curious why you wouldn't do DPL if it supposedly (Per posters) better than ECNL?


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Fact said:


> #Bruddah not sure if you are still with the club, but do you know what the ECNL parents are thinking?  Are they going to accept DPL or try to find another DA or ECNL club?


DMCV Sharks is the only ECNL team left in San Diego.  They will travel more this coming ECNL season.  I donʻt know anything about DPL except that the boys side has never had such a league as an extension of DA.


----------



## Fact

Bruddah IZ said:


> DMCV Sharks is the only ECNL team left in San Diego.  They will travel more this coming ECNL season.  I donʻt know anything about DPL except that the boys side has never had such a league as an extension of DA.


And all of the Sharks rosters are probably full. Exactly what Surf was waiting for.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Fact said:


> And all of the Sharks rosters are probably full. Exactly what Surf was waiting for.


The checks to clear.


----------



## Fact

Sheriff Joe said:


> The checks to clear.


Credit card man.
Get with the program, you are so old school your age is showing.

If I recall correctly we paid more to be on an ECNL team then the B team. I bet they won’t refund any of that money, probably just like when they pulled out of Presidio in April/May and made the younger and lower teams travel to LA and OC for games.


----------



## Tomnchar

Not that this helps for those who are all the way down in San Diego, but for those who are traveling down from OC, Strikers North G04 ECNL team still has a couple of spots open.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Fact said:


> Credit card man.
> Get with the program, you are so old school your age is showing.
> 
> If I recall correctly we paid more to be on an ECNL team then the B team. I bet they won’t refund any of that money, probably just like when they pulled out of Presidio in April/May and made the younger and lower teams travel to LA and OC for games.


#1 You are correct, I'm old.
#2 Nothing wrong with old school, better than all the shit that's happening right now.
#3 U S soccer must have surf by the balls.
#4 Should make for an interesting surf cup.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Tomnchar said:


> Not that this helps for those who are all the way down in San Diego, but for those who are traveling down from OC, Strikers North G04 ECNL team still has a couple of spots open.


Who is the coach?


----------



## Tomnchar

Tim Strader and Kyle Thomas are the head coaches.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Tomnchar said:


> Tim Strader and Kyle Thomas are the head coaches.


Sorry to hear anyone has to go through this shit, fuck surf, IDK if anyone is choosing to stay, but if they did it once they'll do it again, IMHO.


----------



## timbuck

Is this any different than Slammers dropping DA at the last minute?
Wasn’t slammers supposed to have (at least) partially funded DA for this upcoming season?  
I assume their ECNL “all-in” teams are not funded at all.  Do parents need to open up more of their checkbook than previously planned?
Did Slammers already have their DA and ECNL teams figure out?  Then dropped DA.  What happens now?


----------



## Tomnchar

A little more background on the Strikers North team as this is not the same ECNL team from last year. This team is made up primarily of last year's Fullerton Rangers G04 White team that made it to the Semi-Finals of National Cup and lost to Arsenal in PKs. 13 players from that team moved over and we have added 3 additional. 

Good luck to everyone going through this. Hoping everyone finds a situation that they can be happy with for the coming year.


----------



## shales1002

timbuck said:


> Is this any different than Slammers dropping DA at the last minute?
> Wasn’t slammers supposed to have (at least) partially funded DA for this upcoming season?
> I assume their ECNL “all-in” teams are not funded at all.  Do parents need to open up more of their checkbook than previously planned?
> Did Slammers already have their DA and ECNL teams figure out?  Then dropped DA.  What happens now?


I think this is a difference as Slammers announced what was happening. How did we all find out about Surf? I’ll tell you... a map of 2018/19.  Based on the rollout for Slammers, seems like they cleverly planned it out. Surf seemed like they knew it was happening BUT didn’t believe that it would. Perhaps they should have reflected last year when DeAnza Force was going back and forth.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Tomnchar said:


> A little more background on the Strikers North team as this is not the same ECNL team from last year. This team is made up primarily of last year's Fullerton Rangers G04 White team that made it to the Semi-Finals of National Cup and lost to Arsenal in PKs. 13 players from that team moved over and we have added 3 additional.
> 
> Good luck to everyone going through this. Hoping everyone finds a situation that they can be happy with for the coming year.


That's a strong little team.


----------



## Justafan

Sheriff Joe said:


> #2 Nothing wrong with old school, better than all the shit that's happening right now


Just don’t turn into that “get off my lawn” guy, or is it too late?


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Justafan said:


> Just don’t turn into that “get off my lawn” guy, or is it too late?


I am on top of the fence, just swinging the second leg over.


----------



## Mystery Train

shales1002 said:


> I think this is a difference as Slammers announced what was happening. How did we all find out about Surf? I’ll tell you... a map of 2018/19.  Based on the rollout for Slammers, seems like they cleverly planned it out. Surf seemed like they knew it was happening BUT didn’t believe that it would. Perhaps they should have reflected last year when DeAnza Force was going back and forth.


Agree.  And another big difference is that dropping DA in favor of ECNL means no age banding, so more roster spots not less.  Dropping ECNL means having to fight two age groups for spots already allocated.  Also, the LAFC Slammers move was just a switch from one league to another, but Surf had both and dropped one.


----------



## MakeAPlay

RiverArsenal said:


> ECNL in Southern Cal has become a second or third tier league.


Well they have first tier players because several commits to my players top 5 school play ECNL and I even believe that @LadiesMan217 had his daughter playing in the finals this weekend and she scored a couple of goals.

Players make the circuit elite not the other way around.


----------



## Justafan

Tomnchar said:


> A little more background on the Strikers North team as this is not the same ECNL team from last year. This team is made up primarily of last year's Fullerton Rangers G04 White team that made it to the Semi-Finals of National Cup and lost to Arsenal in PKs. 13 players from that team moved over and we have added 3 additional.
> 
> Good luck to everyone going through this. Hoping everyone finds a situation that they can be happy with for the coming year.


This is one of those excellent teams that always seems to fly under the radar and is under appreciated because they don’t do many tournaments and have a quiet confidence about themselves.  They’re like the Spurs, everybody is looking out for the other teams, then they’re on your schedule, they kick your ass, and then you ask yourself, what just happpened?  Good luck in ECNL, you guys will do just fine.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Justafan said:


> This is one of those excellent teams that always seems to fly under the radar and is under appreciated because they don’t do many tournaments and have a quiet confidence about themselves.  They’re like the Spurs, everybody is looking out for the other teams, then they’re on your schedule, they kick your ass, and then you ask yourself, what just happpened?  Good luck in ECNL, you guys will do just fine.


Hopefully, you never know what the new coach will bring.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Fact said:


> And all of the Sharks rosters are probably full. Exactly what Surf was waiting for.


The Incentive$ are always there aren’t they?


----------



## beulah

Fact said:


> And all of the Sharks rosters are probably full. Exactly what Surf was waiting for.


I believe the Sharks 04 girls team has held a couple of roster spots open for special players. Talented group of girls that underperformed the second half of the season due to multiple injuries.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Sheriff Joe said:


> The checks to clear.


Intent is always hard to prove.  The actual outcomes will be relegated by the same optimistic marketing that brought Surf to this current event.  Bait and switch comes to mind.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

beulah said:


> I believe the Sharks 04 girls team has held a couple of roster spots open for special players. Talented group of girls that underperformed the second half of the season due to multiple injuries.


There is ALWAYS room for a talented player.  You just need to be REALY talented.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Justafan said:


> Just don’t turn into that “get off my lawn” guy, or is it too late?


Joe doesn’t have a lawn.  He lives in the desert sand.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Sheriff Joe said:


> I am on top of the fence, just swinging the second leg over.


Easy killer.  Don’t want that soccer injury to flare up.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

beulah said:


> I believe the Sharks 04 girls team has held a couple of roster spots open for special players. Talented group of girls that underperformed the second half of the season due to multiple injuries.


Surfs 04’s still have DA until next season when they rotate out of DA.  Surf’s 03’s only choice is DPL at the moment.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Bruddah IZ said:


> Easy killer.  Don’t want that soccer injury to flare up.


You remember that, huh?
I am pretty much healed, thank you very much.


----------



## timbuck

Bruddah IZ said:


> Intent is always hard to prove.  The actual outcomes will be relegated by the same optimistic marketing that brought Surf to this current event.  Bait and switch comes to mind.


I feel like we are on the brink of one really pissed off parent away -with time and money- before the entire house of cards that is youth soccer comes crashing down.   Not at any particular club. But across the entire system.


----------



## MakeAPlay

timbuck said:


> I feel like we are one really pissed off parent with time and money before the entire house of cards that is youth soccer comes crashing down.   Not at any particular club. But across the entire system.


Glad mine got out while it was still pretty decent.  I feel for my friends with kids with a lot of time left in club soccer.  I feel like there has got to be a better way forward.  It really is amazing how anything gets done in this country.  Actually no it’s not.  C.R.E.A.M.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

timbuck said:


> I feel like we are one really pissed off parent with time and money before the entire house of cards that is youth soccer comes crashing down.   Not at any particular club. But across the entire system.


Lol!! First world problems.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

MakeAPlay said:


> Glad mine got out while it was still pretty decent.  I feel for my friends with kids with a lot of time left in club soccer.  I feel like there has got to be a better way forward.  It really is amazing how anything gets done in this country.  Actually no it’s not.  C.R.E.A.M.


Especially because it'$ losing value every year.


----------



## Monkey

Attention Surf Parents:

1. Do you have a daughter that plays for San Diego Surf?
2. Do you feel like you have a very sharp hook in your mouth?
3. Do you feel like a giant lemon has been stuck where the sun does not shine?
4. Are you shaking from the Kool Aide withdrawal?
5. Are you having the same recurring dream that DPL stands for "Dumb Parent League"?
6. Are your ears ringing from the lively meeting tonight?

If you answered yes to any of these questions, you may have been exposed to Surf's giant lie.
But you still have time to act.
Call 1-800-New-Team now!
You may be entitled to have your daughter play at a club with integrity and transparency.
Don't delay in calling.  There are limited spots and time will expire.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Monkey said:


> Attention Surf Parents:
> You may be entitled to have your daughter play at a club with integrity and transparency.


Now that is funny.  Like there are no other clubs in the area (S. Cal) that have problems with integrity and transparency.


----------



## timbuck

Monkey said:


> Attention Surf Parents:
> 
> 1. Do you have a daughter that plays for San Diego Surf?
> 2. Do you feel like you have a very sharp hook in your mouth?
> 3. Do you feel like a giant lemon has been stuck where the sun does not shine?
> 4. Are you shaking from the Kool Aide withdrawal?
> 5. Are you having the same recurring dream that DPL stands for "Dumb Parent League"?
> 6. Are your ears ringing from the lively meeting tonight?
> 
> If you answered yes to any of these questions, you may have been exposed to Surf's giant lie.
> But you still have time to act.
> Call 1-800-New-Team now!
> You may be entitled to have your daughter play at a club with integrity and transparency.
> Don't delay in calling.  There are limited spots and time will expire.



Ooh. Was there a meeting tonight?  
Any discussion on their affiliates and how that cash cow has been performing?
Just need clubs to start boycotting surf cup / man city cup and then the grand plan all falls apart. (Will never happen. People want that jacket!!!!)


----------



## Fact

timbuck said:


> Ooh. Was there a meeting tonight?
> Any discussion on their affiliates and how that cash cow has been performing?
> Just need clubs to start boycotting surf cup / man city cup and then the grand plan all falls apart. (Will never happen. People want that jacket!!!!)


No meeting, rather a sales pitch on why DPL will be better than ECNL. I heard it was quiet the crowd.


----------



## Pitch pop

Fact said:


> No meeting, rather a sales pitch on why DPL will be better than ECNL. I heard it was quiet the crowd.


.....Wow! Trying anything to keep that ECNL $$$ from leaving the club. How does the saying go? Fool me once, shame on you......


----------



## Desert Hound

Fact said:


> No meeting, rather a sales pitch on why DPL will be better than ECNL. I heard it was quiet the crowd.


What was the pitch? What were they claiming  that makes DPL better vs ECNL?


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Desert Hound said:


> What was the pitch? What were they claiming  that makes DPL better vs ECNL?


It's not what was pitched, it's when.


----------



## Justafan

Fact said:


> No meeting, rather a sales pitch on why DPL will be better than ECNL.


I wonder if anybody recorded last year’s meeting where the sales pitch was why ECNL was better than DPL?


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Justafan said:


> I wonder if anybody recorded last year’s meeting where the sales pitch was why ECNL was better than DPL?


Competition probably.  Recordings?  Hmmm?


----------



## Mystery Train

Last night the surf cup olders schedule was posted and it showed "Surf ECNL" teams in several age groups. The schedules were taken down and I can't pull them up again.  But I did get this screen shot of the '04 Super White flight.  This indicates to me that this drop from ECNL has been sudden and unplanned...which means that any spin they are putting on it like this is a positive thing is bogus.  If it was planned, the hubris and ineptitude in how it was handled is alarming.  I've generally respected Surf (from a distance at least) but this isn't a good look no matter how you slice it.


----------



## Monkey

Mystery Train said:


> Last night the surf cup olders schedule was posted and it showed "Surf ECNL" teams in several age groups. The schedules were taken down and I can't pull them up again.  But I did get this screen shot of the '04 Super White flight.  This indicates to me that this drop from ECNL has been sudden and unplanned...which means that any spin they are putting on it like this is a positive thing is bogus.  If it was planned, the hubris and ineptitude in how it was handled is alarming.  I've generally respected Surf (from a distance at least) but this isn't a good look no matter how you slice it.
> 
> View attachment 2923


Surf actively recruited girls for ECNL this year from other clubs.  They signed players up to be on ECNL teams. Parents paid to have their dd on ECNL teams. Then ECNL came out with their map/list of clubs participating in ECNL next year. ONLY AFTER this list appeared did Surf send parents an email saying that the list was not final but rather tentative and that it came as a complete surprise to them that they were not on the list. They said that they had “jumped through all the hoops ECNL asked them to” so that they did not understand the problem.  They also stressed that the list was tenitive and that they were still working with ECNL to “jump through more hoops.” (Nice way to continue to string them along).

Don’t ask me to post it. I don’t have it but saw it last weekend from a Surf friend.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Monkey said:


> Surf actively recruited girls for ECNL this year from other clubs.  They signed players up to be on ECNL teams. Parents paid to have their dd on ECNL teams. Then ECNL came out with their map/list of clubs participating in ECNL next year. ONLY AFTER this list appeared did Surf send parents an email saying that the list was not final but rather tentative and that it came as a complete surprise to them that they were not on the list. They said that they had “jumped through all the hoops ECNL asked them to” so that they did not understand the problem.  They also stressed that the list was tenitive and that they were still working with ECNL to “jump through more hoops.” (Nice way to continue to string them along).
> 
> Don’t ask me to post it. I don’t have it but saw it last weekend from a Surf friend.


*Fsur-oops!*


----------



## Mystery Train

Monkey said:


> Surf actively recruited girls for ECNL this year from other clubs.  They signed players up to be on ECNL teams. Parents paid to have their dd on ECNL teams. Then ECNL came out with their map/list of clubs participating in ECNL next year. ONLY AFTER this list appeared did Surf send parents an email saying that the list was not final but rather tentative and that it came as a complete surprise to them that they were not on the list. They said that they had “jumped through all the hoops ECNL asked them to” so that they did not understand the problem.  They also stressed that the list was tenitive and that they were still working with ECNL to “jump through more hoops.” (Nice way to continue to string them along).
> 
> Don’t ask me to post it. I don’t have it but saw it last weekend from a Surf friend.


If it's true that ECNL pulled the rug out from under them, and that's what they are saying to parents, then I can sympathize with the club.  But if ECNL yanked away their membership and then Surf is trying to sell DPL as a better product, then I would be taking my kids' talents to "south beach" ... along with a full refund!


----------



## SocalPapa

Mystery Train said:


> Last night the surf cup olders schedule was posted and it showed "Surf ECNL" teams in several age groups. The schedules were taken down and I can't pull them up again.  But I did get this screen shot of the '04 Super White flight.  This indicates to me that this drop from ECNL has been sudden and unplanned...which means that any spin they are putting on it like this is a positive thing is bogus.  If it was planned, the hubris and ineptitude in how it was handled is alarming.  I've generally respected Surf (from a distance at least) but this isn't a good look no matter how you slice it.
> 
> View attachment 2923


Surf Cup uses the GotSoccer software.  If a team's manager hasn't gotten around to updating its GotSoccer profile yet, that's how it is going to show up in the tournament schedule.  Looks like the other Surf teams haven't updated their GotSoccer profiles either.  Perhaps they don't know what to change it to yet.  

2004 ECNL: https://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/team.aspx?TeamID=1002341
Other teams: https://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/club.aspx?ClubID=8766


----------



## kidzsoccerfan

beulah said:


> I believe the Sharks 04 girls team has held a couple of roster spots open for special players. Talented group of girls that underperformed the second half of the season due to multiple injuries.


I heard same thing on Sharks 04’s. A couple players away from being a very good team. I believe they have Coach Goran- great coach, lots of college contacts.


----------



## Mystery Train

SocalPapa said:


> Surf Cup uses the GotSoccer software.  If a team's manager hasn't gotten around to updating its GotSoccer profile yet, that's how it is going to show up in the tournament schedule.  Looks like the other Surf teams haven't updated their GotSoccer profiles either.  Perhaps they don't know what to change it to yet.
> 
> 2004 ECNL: https://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/team.aspx?TeamID=1002341
> Other teams: https://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/club.aspx?ClubID=8766View attachment 2924


Yep. Point being that this wasn't something planned ahead.


----------



## Fact

Mystery Train said:


> If it's true that ECNL pulled the rug out from under them, and that's what they are saying to parents, then I can sympathize with the club.  But if ECNL yanked away their membership and then Surf is trying to sell DPL as a better product, then I would be taking my kids' talents to "south beach" ... along with a full refund!


You’re making a big assumption that Surf was telling them the truth. I find it very hard to believe that the first notice they received was ECNL’s announcement. I also find it hard to believe that ECNL’s announcement was a “tentative” list.  If Surf was truly blindsided they would not pass the buck and make their players pay. They should be upfront about refunding anyone that wants to leave.  But of course they will never do that.


----------



## Fact

kidzsoccerfan said:


> I heard same thing on Sharks 04’s. A couple players away from being a very good team. I believe they have Coach Goran- great coach, lots of college contacts.


What team is not a couple players away from being very good?  Why not be more specific and list the positions needed and how many are on the team now?  Looking at Sharks rosters it looks like teams were good sized. Of course many ECNL teams carry 20+ especially during the high school years.


----------



## beulah

Fact said:


> What team is not a couple players away from being very good?  Why not be more specific and list the positions needed and how many are on the team now?  Looking at Sharks rosters it looks like teams were good sized. Of course many ECNL teams carry 20+ especially during the high school years.


The 04 team had 14 FT players last years - coach was very selective. He only added a couple of players this year.


----------



## Fact

beulah said:


> I believe the Sharks 04 girls team has held a couple of roster spots open for special players. Talented group of girls that underperformed the second half of the season due to multiple injuries.


Seems like you know a lot more about this team then you let on “I believe”. ........hahahahahha homeboy!


----------



## Mystery Train

Fact said:


> You’re making a big assumption that Surf was telling them the truth. I find it very hard to believe that the first notice they received was ECNL’s announcement. I also find it hard to believe that ECNL’s announcement was a “tentative” list.  If Surf was truly blindsided they would not pass the buck and make their players pay. They should be upfront about refunding anyone that wants to leave.  But of course they will never do that.


No assumptions made.  I said, "IF."  

I think in your zest to bash them, you've misunderstood my posts.  I don't know what is going on behind the scenes and have no sources in San Diego.  This is all an amusing sideshow to me.  But I do feel bad for any families who are caught in no-man's land so late in the year and may have to scramble to find high level opportunities for their players.  I've seen it happen all over the place in club soccer.  It's the ugliest part of the whole scene.  

My take on this is that it's a horrible look for Surf because clearly, there are only two possible conclusions that outsiders can draw from all this:  1) Surf is sleazy (knowingly pulled a bait and switch on players recruited for ECNL all the while knowing they were going out) or 2) Surf is inept (sold parents on something that they didn't have properly worked out and is now scrambling to do damage control).   It's gotta be one or the other.  I have more sympathy for them if they are merely inept and are trying to get back into the graces of ECNL to rectify the situation for their parents.  It doesn't absolve them, but if someone says that's what they're telling the parents, I have no way to refute that.  The fact that all their ECNL teams still say "ECNL" on their GotSoccer pages indicates to me that this wasn't planned.  

I suppose the third possibility is that they are both sleazy AND inept.  But I'm not a Surf-hater, so I'm not gonna go there.  I like to keep my schadenfreude balanced and thoughtful.  

I agree with you that the idea that ECNL would yank membership randomly without trying to get them to be on the same page is very unlikely given the turf war going on with DA.  Surf is a huge club with national recognition.  I would think ECNL would be working very hard to keep them.

It's a weird situation and I'd love to hear the conversations behind those closed doors.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Mystery Train said:


> No assumptions made.  I said, "IF."
> 
> I think in your zest to bash them, you've misunderstood my posts.  I don't know what is going on behind the scenes and have no sources in San Diego.  This is all an amusing sideshow to me.  But I do feel bad for any families who are caught in no-man's land so late in the year and may have to scramble to find high level opportunities for their players.  I've seen it happen all over the place in club soccer.  It's the ugliest part of the whole scene.
> 
> My take on this is that it's a horrible look for Surf because clearly, there are only two possible conclusions that outsiders can draw from all this:  1) Surf is sleazy (knowingly pulled a bait and switch on players recruited for ECNL all the while knowing they were going out) or 2) Surf is inept (sold parents on something that they didn't have properly worked out and is now scrambling to do damage control).   It's gotta be one or the other.  I have more sympathy for them if they are merely inept and are trying to get back into the graces of ECNL to rectify the situation for their parents.  It doesn't absolve them, but if someone says that's what they're telling the parents, I have no way to refute that.  The fact that all their ECNL teams still say "ECNL" on their GotSoccer pages indicates to me that this wasn't planned.
> 
> I suppose the third possibility is that they are both sleazy AND inept.  But I'm not a Surf-hater, so I'm not gonna go there.  I like to keep my schadenfreude balanced and thoughtful.
> 
> I agree with you that the idea that ECNL would yank membership randomly without trying to get them to be on the same page is very unlikely given the turf war going on with DA.  Surf is a huge club with national recognition.  I would think ECNL would be working very hard to keep them.
> 
> It's a weird situation and I'd love to hear the conversations behind those closed doors.


Hard to tell, but these are multi million dollar organizations, I doubt surf is inept. It would appear to the naked eye that US Soccer told them to get rid of ECNL.
ECNL is springing back to life and US Soccer doesn't like it.


----------



## outside!

Mystery Train said:


> I would think ECNL would be working very hard to keep them.
> 
> It's a weird situation and I'd love to hear the conversations behind those closed doors.


Given that ECNL's treatment of San Diego county clubs over the years demonstrates either incompetence or corruption, non of this all that surprising. It is however extremely unfair to all the hard working players and their families. Note that DA/GDA seems to be no better.


----------



## Desert Hound

From what I have always heard, ECNL is a well run organization. It is highly unlikely that suddenly at the last minute without any kind of warning they pulled ECNL from Surf. Does not pass the smell test. 

If ECNL had issues with Surf it is something that has been discussed over a period of time. Under that scenario Surf knew there was a good chance they were losing ECNL. 

If as Sheriff Joe speculates above that is was a push from US Soccer, then once again this was not something US Soccer just told Surf at the last minute either. 

This just didn't happen out of the blue.


----------



## MakeAPlay

outside! said:


> Given that ECNL's treatment of San Diego county clubs over the years demonstrates either incompetence or corruption, non of this all that surprising. It is however extremely unfair to all the hard working players and their families. Note that DA/GDA seems to be no better.


No other club in San Diego county deserved ECNL when it was formed based upon results on the girls side.  Look I live in San Diego and my daughter played for the Strikers until her senior year.  Unfortunately up until the creation of ECNL nobody in San Diego other than Surf had much of a reputation to attract the best players and that is just a fact.  My daughter’s roommate left Carlsbad Elite her junior year to go to Surf so that she could get more consistent competition.  Unfortunately there are only enough elite kids to form half of a top team in San Diego in any particular age group and that is the big limitation.


----------



## LadiesMan217

MakeAPlay said:


> No other club in San Diego county deserved ECNL when it was formed based upon results on the girls side.  Look I live in San Diego and my daughter played for the Strikers until her senior year.  Unfortunately up until the creation of ECNL nobody in San Diego other than Surf had much of a reputation to attract the best players and that is just a fact.  My daughter’s roommate left Carlsbad Elite her junior year to go to Surf so that she could get more consistent competition.  Unfortunately there are only enough elite kids to form half of a top team in San Diego in any particular age group and that is the big limitation.


Wait.... All those kids in Elite CNL are not Elite


----------



## GoWest

LadiesMan217 said:


> Wait.... All those kids in Elite CNL are not Elite


Right...remember it's Elite CLUBS NL not Elite PLAYERS NL ...lol


----------



## LadiesMan217

GoWest said:


> Right...remember it's Elite CLUBS NL not Elite PLAYERS NL ...lol


Good point!


----------



## Pitch pop

I apologize if this was covered in an earlier post but does anyone know how many dual member (ECNL/DA) clubs are left?


----------



## GoWest

Pitch pop said:


> I apologize if this was covered in an earlier post but does anyone know how many dual member (ECNL/DA) clubs are left?


Hmmmm, well, at least one that I know of in SW conf being SoCal Blues. Maybe a couple Texas clubs? Midwest? Anyone....anyone.....have a little insight here?


----------



## outside!

MakeAPlay said:


> No other club in San Diego county deserved ECNL when it was formed based upon results on the girls side.  Look I live in San Diego and my daughter played for the Strikers until her senior year.  Unfortunately up until the creation of ECNL nobody in San Diego other than Surf had much of a reputation to attract the best players and that is just a fact.  My daughter’s roommate left Carlsbad Elite her junior year to go to Surf so that she could get more consistent competition.  Unfortunately there are only enough elite kids to form half of a top team in San Diego in any particular age group and that is the big limitation.


I wasn't talking about when ECNL was formed.


----------



## Fact

SocalPapa said:


> Surf Cup uses the GotSoccer software.  If a team's manager hasn't gotten around to updating its GotSoccer profile yet, that's how it is going to show up in the tournament schedule.  Looks like the other Surf teams haven't updated their GotSoccer profiles either.  Perhaps they don't know what to change it to yet.
> 
> 2004 ECNL: https://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/team.aspx?TeamID=1002341
> Other teams: https://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/club.aspx?ClubID=8766View attachment 2924


The name of the team is irrelevant.  Doesn’t the team manager fill this information in?  If so, the managers also being in the dark would obviously still be using the ECNL name in their team
profiles. And honestly until they prinit new cards with the new players, the managers I knew did not update the gotsoccer profiles.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

GoWest said:


> Hmmmm, well, at least one that I know of in SW conf being SoCal Blues. Maybe a couple Texas clubs? Midwest? Anyone....anyone.....have a little insight here?


I believe it is 6 or 7.  I don't remember the exact number and don't have time to research it right now  but was told the # is less than 10.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

MakeAPlay said:


> No other club in San Diego county deserved ECNL when it was formed based upon results on the girls side.  Look I live in San Diego and my daughter played for the Strikers until her senior year.  Unfortunately up until the creation of ECNL nobody in San Diego other than Surf had much of a reputation to attract the best players and that is just a fact.  My daughter’s roommate left Carlsbad Elite her junior year to go to Surf so that she could get more consistent competition.  Unfortunately there are only enough elite kids to form half of a top team in San Diego in any particular age group and that is the big limitation.


So much for development.


----------



## MakeAPlay

outside! said:


> I wasn't talking about when ECNL was formed.


Fair enough.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

MakeAPlay said:


> Fair enough.


I went all day yesterday not knowing the score and when I got home around 8PM, sitting down to watch the game I received an alert with the score, boy was I pissed.


----------



## SocalPapa

Pitch pop said:


> I apologize if this was covered in an earlier post but does anyone know how many dual member (ECNL/DA) clubs are left?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but by my count it is down to 7 clubs (with So Cal Blues being the only remaining dual club out of the 4 we used to have in Southern California):

*Current Officially Dual Clubs (2018-19 Change)*
Concorde Fire (All-in ECNL)
 Crossfire Premier 
Dallas Texans (DA Only? - not on ECNL membership chart)
Eclipse Select Soccer Club (All-in ECNL)
 FC Dallas 
FC Stars (All-in ECNL)
LAFC Slammers (All-in ECNL)
Michigan Hawks (All-in ECNL)
 NTH Tophat 
Real Colorado 
San Diego Surf (DA Only? - not on ECNL membership chart)
Sky Blue - PDA/PDA (All-in ECNL)
 So Cal Blues Soccer Club 
Solar Soccer Club 
West Coast Futbol Club (DA Only)

* Current Arguably Dual Clubs (2018-19 Change)*
Fury NY/Albertson (DA Only?- Albertson's on the "all in ECNL" chart but not on ECNL membership chart)
 NYCFC/World Class


----------



## MarkM

SocalPapa said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but by my count it is down to 7 clubs (with So Cal Blues being the only remaining dual club out of the 4 we used to have in Southern California):
> 
> *Current Officially Dual Clubs (2018-19 Change)*
> Concorde Fire (All-in ECNL)
> Crossfire Premier
> Dallas Texans (DA Only? - not on ECNL membership chart)
> Eclipse Select Soccer Club (All-in ECNL)
> FC Dallas
> FC Stars (All-in ECNL)
> LAFC Slammers (All-in ECNL)
> Michigan Hawks (All-in ECNL)
> NTH Tophat
> Real Colorado
> San Diego Surf (DA Only? - not on ECNL membership chart)
> Sky Blue - PDA/PDA (All-in ECNL)
> So Cal Blues Soccer Club
> Solar Soccer Club
> West Coast Futbol Club (DA Only)
> 
> * Current Arguably Dual Clubs (2018-19 Change)*
> Fury NY/Albertson (DA Only?- Albertson's on the "all in ECNL" chart but not on ECNL membership chart)
> NYCFC/World Class


Arguably Thorns/Force too.  https://www.deanzaforce.org/thorns

Do you know how many of the clubs from ECNL in 2016/2017 are still in ECNL?


----------



## Info

Dual DA/ECNL Clubs were given an "all-in ECNL" option from ECNL this off-season. If they went "all-in" they were given the option of having two ECNL teams (to help the transition of moving their DA players to ECNL). Imagine the pissed off Slammers families, if Slammers went back to ECNL and had only one team. Many of the current players on their ECNL/DA teams would be cut from their now only one ECNL team. So ECNL gave these dual clubs an easy transition. This is why Slammers has two teams. I do not know if they will keep it permanently or just until these age groups age out.

If these dual DA/ECNL clubs did not meet a very high competitive bar, they were told by ECNL that you are "all-in ECNL" or you are out. West Coast (OC Surf) was one such club that did not meet that criteria. So they chose DA (a choice they probably regret since so many top clubs -Slammers, Michigan Hawks, Elipse, PDA, etc - all publicly dropped DA after OC Surf chose DA). Slammers obviously met the competitive standard but still chose to go "all-in ECNL". Blues met the competitive standard too. So they can remain a dual club. 

It appears to me (but I do not know for a fact), that Surf was given the take "all-in ECNL" or you are out ultimatum. They were probably campaigning to stay in both, but ECNL is firm on their competitive standards. Surf probably lost their argument to be an exception, and is now caught holding the bag with their families.


----------



## outside!

Info said:


> but ECNL is firm on their competitive standards


That is kind of funny when you consider some of the clubs ECNL added out of desperation this past year.


----------



## GoWest

outside! said:


> That is kind of funny when you consider some of the clubs ECNL added out of desperation this past year.


Gotta have teams to fill the schedule and the $$$$ that follows. GDA is doing the same to replace the clubs returning 'all in' to ECNL. It's seemingly cyclical.


----------



## ToonArmy

If i were a local club like Slammers i would be more concerned with what the teams i play in local league on a weekly basis did not what michagan pda and others outside the west coast did. For example in 05s Slammers competition has been teams that are "all in" DA and Blues A team which is in DA. I guess Heat will give them a game but no competition otherwise in league. I imagine that teams top players will either play up or jump ship. 

But this decision was probably based on money anyways


----------



## LadiesMan217

outside! said:


> That is kind of funny when you consider some of the clubs ECNL added out of desperation this past year.


A few ECNL clubs playing in the 3rd and 4th tier this upcoming Surf Cup. Haven't seen this before...


----------



## CaliKlines

LadiesMan217 said:


> A few ECNL clubs playing in the 3rd and 4th tier this upcoming Surf Cup. Haven't seen this before...


Good for them...They must have known someone to get moved up so far.


----------



## Hank Walker

Info said:


> Dual DA/ECNL Clubs were given an "all-in ECNL" option from ECNL this off-season. If they went "all-in" they were given the option of having two ECNL teams (to help the transition of moving their DA players to ECNL). Imagine the pissed off Slammers families, if Slammers went back to ECNL and had only one team. Many of the current players on their ECNL/DA teams would be cut from their now only one ECNL team. So ECNL gave these dual clubs an easy transition. This is why Slammers has two teams. I do not know if they will keep it permanently or just until these age groups age out.
> 
> If these dual DA/ECNL clubs did not meet a very high competitive bar, they were told by ECNL that you are "all-in ECNL" or you are out. West Coast (OC Surf) was one such club that did not meet that criteria. So they chose DA (a choice they probably regret since so many top clubs -Slammers, Michigan Hawks, Elipse, PDA, etc - all publicly dropped DA after OC Surf chose DA). Slammers obviously met the competitive standard but still chose to go "all-in ECNL". Blues met the competitive standard too. So they can remain a dual club.
> 
> It appears to me (but I do not know for a fact), that Surf was given the take "all-in ECNL" or you are out ultimatum. They were probably campaigning to stay in both, but ECNL is firm on their competitive standards. Surf probably lost their argument to be an exception, and is now caught holding the bag with their families.


Sorry I'm slow but I still don't understand why Blues gets to remain DA and ECNL while San Diego Surf does not? I thought ECNL forced Surf to choose? Why wasn't Blues forced to choose?


----------



## MakeAPlay

CaliKlines said:


> Good for them...They must have known someone to get moved up so far.


Lame.  I can’t wait for your latest flip flop once reality starts to set in....


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I like how in the U19 DA bracket at Surf Cup both Surf and OC Surf play the Pats, Albion, and Lamorinda.  Meanwhile Crossfire Premier, Real Socal, and San Jose Earthquakes all have to play each other.  Lol


----------



## GoWest

CaliKlines said:


> Good for them...They must have known someone to get moved up so far.


@CaliKlines I assume based upon your comment that your DD played this last season on a GDA team? If so, what league did she play in the prior years?


----------



## Fact

Hank Walker said:


> Sorry I'm slow but I still don't understand why Blues gets to remain DA and ECNL while San Diego Surf does not? I thought ECNL forced Surf to choose? Why wasn't Blues forced to choose?





Simisoccerfan said:


> I like how in the U19 DA bracket at Surf Cup both Surf and OC Surf play the Pats, Albion, and Lamorinda.  Meanwhile Crossfire Premier, Real Socal, and San Jose Earthquakes all have to play each other.  Lol


Because life is not fair, get over it!


----------



## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> I like how in the U19 DA bracket at Surf Cup both Surf and OC Surf play the Pats, Albion, and Lamorinda.  Meanwhile Crossfire Premier, Real Socal, and San Jose Earthquakes all have to play each other.  Lol


Personally I would rather my kid play the tough teams.  Patsies won’t get you ready to play UCLA, Stanford or Penn State.  I preferred when my daughter played against Surf than when she played for them.  She got more out of the games.


----------



## SocalPapa

Hank Walker said:


> Sorry I'm slow but I still don't understand why Blues gets to remain DA and ECNL while San Diego Surf does not? I thought ECNL forced Surf to choose? Why wasn't Blues forced to choose?


----------



## GoWest

ToonArmy said:


> If i were a local club like Slammers i would be more concerned with what the teams i play in local league on a weekly basis did not what michagan pda and others outside the west coast did. For example in 05s Slammers competition has been teams that are "all in" DA and Blues A team which is in DA. I guess Heat will give them a game but no competition otherwise in league. I imagine that teams top players will either play up or jump ship.
> 
> But this decision was probably based on money anyways


I agree with this. It will take some time to see how the rosters fill out and change over the next few seasons. This next season will be telling right out of the gate. Historically the SW ECNL conference really has had only three or so teams in each age bracket that were 'elite' as seasons moved on ... Generally Blues, Surf and Slammers with the occasional Arsenal, Strikers or WC (keeping it Cali) having a juggernaut. So maybe in the 05 age bracket Slammers and Heat end up being the teams to beat in that bracket as the seasons change and that's okay. At the end of the day one of those teams will need to beat a Michigan Hawks or PDA type elite group of teams in the CL for the trophy. Seems more things change, the more they stay the same IMHO.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Hank Walker said:


> Sorry I'm slow but I still don't understand why Blues gets to remain DA and ECNL while San Diego Surf does not? I thought ECNL forced Surf to choose? Why wasn't Blues forced to choose?


As I understand it, ECNL created (and I understand changed when it suited them) criteria for a club to maintain ENCL while also having DA of winning X # of national championship(s) and/or placing X # of teams into the finals (I think the # was 4 teams).  Blues met the criteria, Surf did not.


----------



## MakeAPlay

GoWest said:


> @CaliKlines I assume based upon your comment that your DD played this last season on a GDA team? If so, what league did she play in the prior years?


@CaliKlines said it because he is a hater.  It’s okay though because Legends is elite!!  LOL


----------



## SocalPapa

LadiesMan217 said:


> A few ECNL clubs playing in the 3rd and 4th tier this upcoming Surf Cup. Haven't seen this before...


Looks like the top brackets at Silverlakes Summer Showcase will be chock full of ECNL teams though.  For example:


----------



## SoccerFan

Hank Walker said:


> Sorry I'm slow but I still don't understand why Blues gets to remain DA and ECNL while San Diego Surf does not? I thought ECNL forced Surf to choose? Why wasn't Blues forced to choose?


Maybe more news to come our way?


----------



## GoWest

SocalPapa said:


> Looks like the top brackets at Silverlakes Summer Showcase will be chock full of ECNL teams though.  For example:View attachment 2931


When are schedules to be posted?


----------



## SocalPapa

GoWest said:


> When are schedules to be posted?


It was supposed to be 2 days ago.  But only the brackets are up so far.  https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=627


----------



## sdklutz

SocalPapa said:


> Looks like the top brackets at Silverlakes Summer Showcase will be chock full of ECNL teams though.  For example:View attachment 2931


Yes, competition in the market place is a good thing.


----------



## GoWest

SocalPapa said:


> It was supposed to be 2 days ago.  But only the brackets are up so far.  https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=627


Thanks


----------



## CaliKlines

GoWest said:


> @CaliKlines I assume based upon your comment that your DD played this last season on a GDA team? If so, what league did she play in the prior years?


GW, my post was in jest...everyone knows that the ECNL is a legitimate platform for youth soccer. And I am no longer concerned about DA v. ECNL as my player is aging out right now. I don't plan on following these forums now that she is finished. She played 1 year of ECNL, then multiple years on a non-affiliated team that performed well at the national level, and then her final year on a DA side. She has experienced a variety of gaming platforms, and now will be competing in the toughest conference in women's collegiate soccer, the ACC.

FWIW, the DA ushered in a new level of professionalism to the practices and on field coaching. Reviewing of the game films, and one on one instruction was immensely helpful to my player in her final youth season. I'm not sure how much of it was DA or how much of it was the club she played for, but it was a very productive experience. (Full disclosure, she left the DA team in December to finish off her high school career, and did not return to the DA for the 2nd half of the season. She had alot invested in that team after being a 3 year varsity starter, and she wanted to play her senior year.) This was her path, and it worked out for her, but there are many ways to get to where you need to go...Good luck with your player's journey!


----------



## Simisoccerfan

CaliKlines said:


> GW, my post was in jest...everyone knows that the ECNL is a legitimate platform for youth soccer. And I am no longer concerned about DA v. ECNL as my player is aging out right now. I don't plan on following these forums now that she is finished. She played 1 year of ECNL, then multiple years on a non-affiliated team that performed well at the national level, and then her final year on a DA side. She has experienced a variety of gaming platforms, and now will be competing in the toughest conference in women's collegiate soccer, the ACC.
> 
> FWIW, the DA ushered in a new level of professionalism to the practices and on field coaching. Reviewing of the game films, and one on one instruction was immensely helpful to my player in her final youth season. I'm not sure how much of it was DA or how much of it was the club she played for, but it was a very productive experience. (Full disclosure, she left the DA team in December to finish off her high school career, and did not return to the DA for the 2nd half of the season. She had alot invested in that team after being a 3 year varsity starter, and she wanted to play her senior year.) This was her path, and it worked out for her, but there are many ways to get to where you need to go...Good luck with your player's journey!


Congratulations!  Which college?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

MakeAPlay said:


> Personally I would rather my kid play the tough teams.  Patsies won’t get you ready to play UCLA, Stanford or Penn State.  I preferred when my daughter played against Surf than when she played for them.  She got more out of the games.


I agree. Just commenting on how Surf is trying to make it easier for themselves.


----------



## GoWest

CaliKlines said:


> GW, my post was in jest...everyone knows that the ECNL is a legitimate platform for youth soccer. And I am no longer concerned about DA v. ECNL as my player is aging out right now. I don't plan on following these forums now that she is finished. She played 1 year of ECNL, then multiple years on a non-affiliated team that performed well at the national level, and then her final year on a DA side. She has experienced a variety of gaming platforms, and now will be competing in the toughest conference in women's collegiate soccer, the ACC.
> 
> FWIW, the DA ushered in a new level of professionalism to the practices and on field coaching. Reviewing of the game films, and one on one instruction was immensely helpful to my player in her final youth season. I'm not sure how much of it was DA or how much of it was the club she played for, but it was a very productive experience. (Full disclosure, she left the DA team in December to finish off her high school career, and did not return to the DA for the 2nd half of the season. She had alot invested in that team after being a 3 year varsity starter, and she wanted to play her senior year.) This was her path, and it worked out for her, but there are many ways to get to where you need to go...Good luck with your player's journey!


Appreciate the insight and transparency. I'm with you on the whole 'GDA v ECNL better, worse or indifferent' skirmishes. Both leagues develop players just in different ways. Glad your DD enjoyed her senior season.



CaliKlines said:


> ...now will be competing in the toughest conference in women's collegiate soccer, the ACC.


ACC is certainly one of the most difficult conferences to play in. Pac12 has had the most dominant top teams in Stanford, UCLA and SC the last couple seasons and that doesn't look to be changing this season. SEC is catching up. Thanks for the kind words and best of everything to your DD in the ACC


----------



## Fact

CaliKlines said:


> I don't plan on following these forums now that she is finished.!


I guess MakeALoser is just going to have to find someone else to harass.

Good luck. I guess I will have another conference to follow.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Fact said:


> Because life is not fair, get over it!


Pot meet kettle...


----------



## Bruddah IZ

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> As I understand it, ECNL created (and I understand changed when it suited them) criteria for a club to maintain ENCL while also having DA of winning X # of national championship(s) and/or placing X # of teams into the finals (I think the # was 4 teams).  Blues met the criteria, Surf did not.


Something about three "options" to stay in ECNL?

1. "buy a professional team and change our ECNL name to that" (Sky Blue FC ECNL based on partnership with Surf New York?)
2.  "..merge with a non-ECNL club" (Force of San Diego?)
3.  "change name all together" 

1 and 2 said to be completed by Surf. Then Slammers went all in at an ECNL meeting last month in Seattle.  Surf says that they "think, don't know" that the Slammers decision nullified their compliance with two of the ECNL's caveats for remaining in ECNL.  Interesting that ECNL allowed the OC Surf boys to remain per the ECNL MAP previously posted.


----------



## Fact

Bruddah IZ said:


> Something about three "options" to stay in ECNL?
> 
> 1. "buy a professional team and change our ECNL name to that" (Sky Blue FC ECNL based on partnership with Surf New York?)
> 2.  "..merge with a non-ECNL club" (Force of San Diego?)
> 3.  "change name all together"
> 
> 1 and 2 said to be completed by Surf. Then Slammers went all in at an ECNL meeting last month in Seattle.  Surf says that they "think, don't know" that the Slammers decision nullified their compliance with two of the ECNL's caveats for remaining in ECNL.  Interesting that ECNL allowed the OC Surf boys to remain per the ECNL MAP previously posted.


Did they say this at the meeting? I had previously heard that ECNL told them that if they had a good showing in the playoffs that they would let them keep ECNL.  Seems like a big gamble to me. The problem I have is that they announced that they were in DPL and the DPL Pilot long before a decision was made by ECNL. Blues did not go through with DPL. It is never a good idea to make a big announcement about a deal that is contrary to a deal you are still negotiating.  Surf was trying to have it both ways.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Fact said:


> Did they say this at the meeting? I had previously heard that ECNL told them that if they had a good showing in the playoffs that they would let them keep ECNL.  Seems like a big gamble to me. The problem I have is that they announced that they were in DPL and the DPL Pilot long before a decision was made by ECNL. Blues did not go through with DPL. It is never a good idea to make a big announcement about a deal that is contrary to a deal you are still negotiating.  Surf was trying to have it both ways.


Are you sure about the time line for the DPL and Pilot announcement?


----------



## Info

outside! said:


> That is kind of funny when you consider some of the clubs ECNL added out of desperation this past year.


No you twisted it. They are firm on their competitive standards to REMAIN in the league. Most new clubs will have work to do. But being an ECNL club will help these new clubs attract better players than they have previously.


----------



## Fact

Bruddah IZ said:


> Are you sure about the time line for the DPL and Pilot announcement?


Yes. Sorry to be brief but if you search her on the Forum you will find a section on Surf  and Blues being in DPL. I believe their logos were on the DPL site. Then Blues logos was gone and the rumors started to fly that they were kicked out. This was a couple weeks before ECNLs announcement a week or 2’ago.


----------



## outside!

Info said:


> No you twisted it. They are firm on their competitive standards to REMAIN in the league. Most new clubs will have work to do. But being an ECNL club will help these new clubs attract better players than they have previously.


Maybe I was not clear. Before GDA, there were non-ECNL clubs in SoCal (Beach, Legends, Carlsbad United/LAGSD) that were more competitive than many of the ECNL Southwest conference clubs and should have been added to ECNL but were not. This was due to either stupidity or collusion with the existing SoCal ECNL clubs and I don't think the leaders of ECNL are THAT stupid. Once GDA happened and ECNL was faced with losing $, ECNL loosened their requirements and added clubs that were less competitive than Beach, Legends or LAGSD like Del Mar Sharks (not that Sharks is a bad club, but at the time their girls teams were not as competitive as those three clubs).

As I have said before, GDA has its own problems and poor decisions. My core issue is that I believe it is stupid for any SoCal team to play league games outside of SoCal (special thanks to GDA for that Sunday evening game in Phoenix in March with school on Monday morning!). Let the best of SoCal go to some sort of summer championship, but none of them should need to travel out of state during the school year. We have enough competition right here in SoCal and the fight over $ between ECNL and GDA is being paid for by parents and players. The adults need to get their shit together and let nearby clubs play against each other. Don't drink the kool-aid, our kids are getting screwed because the powers that be are fighting over money and power and do not give a crap about our kids other than the dollar signs the see when they sign up.


----------



## LadiesMan217

Info said:


> No you twisted it. They are firm on their competitive standards to REMAIN in the league. Most new clubs will have work to do. But being an ECNL club will help these new clubs attract better players than they have previously.


Dude you have no clue but I understand as most here don't. I can tell all kinds of stories but I don't want to deal with the fallout.


----------



## Mystery Train

outside! said:


> My core issue is that I believe it is stupid for any SoCal team to play league games outside of SoCal (special thanks to GDA for that Sunday evening game in Phoenix in March with school on Monday morning!). Let the best of SoCal go to some sort of summer championship, but none of them should need to travel out of state during the school year. We have enough competition right here in SoCal and the fight over $ between ECNL and GDA is being paid for by parents and players. The adults need to get their shit together and let nearby clubs play against each other. Don't drink the kool-aid, our kids are getting screwed because the powers that be are fighting over money and power and do not give a crap about our kids other than the dollar signs the see when they sign up.


Amen.  I can't like this comment enough.


----------



## timbuck

I agree.  But it’s not about the competition. It’s about being seen by the right college scouts. 
ECNL, DA, DPL, Pilot-  they are really all designed to make life easier for college scouts to see your kid play.


----------



## shales1002

timbuck said:


> I agree.  But it’s not about the competition. It’s about being seen by the right college scouts.
> ECNL, DA, DPL, Pilot-  they are really all designed to make life easier for college scouts to see your kid play.


College scouts will not likely be at anything DPL, PILOT...why would they? They are already dividing Ecnl and DA with the same budget. Now USYS has jumped in the money grab with the their be league.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

shales1002 said:


> College scouts will not likely be at anything DPL, PILOT...why would they? They are already dividing Ecnl and DA with the same budget. Now USYS has jumped in the money grab with the their be league.


Not even D2 or D3 schools?


----------



## timbuck

shales1002 said:


> College scouts will not likely be at anything DPL, PILOT...why would they? They are already dividing Ecnl and DA with the same budget. Now USYS has jumped in the money grab with the their be league.


I thought DPL games / showcases are supposed to be played at the same time as DA games.


----------



## MWN

@timbuck,

I agree wholeheartedly agree with this:


shales1002 said:


> College scouts will not likely be at anything DPL, PILOT...why would they? They are already dividing Ecnl and DA with the same budget. Now USYS has jumped in the money grab with the their be league.


Moreover, I think girls that play in the DPL may actually have an additional disadvantage than those that play Flight 1 Champions, National League (CRL), or other leagues for clubs not in the DA or with ECNL in that college scouts would be wondering in the back of their mind "Why isn't she good enough to play on the club's DA team?"

When my daughter was applying for college this last year with something like 5 AP courses under her belt, she was told that because her school also offered an IB (International Baccalaureate) program, the AP courses carried less weight than if she was at a HS that only offered AP. 

If I was a college coach (which I'm not), I know I would look at any DPL (or EGSL ... ECNL's version of DPL) player and ask myself, what is wrong with her that she could not make the top level team?  Now, if a club didn't offer ECNL or DA, then I can appreciate that she is playing at the top level her club offers, I'm I'm less concerned.

I think 1 solution for those not wanting to play DA due to the outside play restrictions is to play up a year or two at a high level.  In my son's case, he is an 03 GK that plays up on a Flight 1 2001 team (2 years up).  He is starting to get looks and interest by colleges just because he 14/15 is playing up with 17 year olds ... it probably also helps that he is 6'2".



timbuck said:


> I thought DPL games / showcases are supposed to be played at the same time as DA games.


Because the DPL is not part of the DA, they do not play at the same time as DA showcases.  However, this year as part of a pilot, the 2003 DPL will play against the Frontier Div. 2003 Pilot program at (I think 2 showcases).  But, if my comment above is accurate, why would a coach watch DPL games when there are much better uncommitted DA players at the 03/02 Composite age on the other fields?  Heck, even the bench players should be better than the DPL/Pilot 03s.


----------



## Fact

timbuck said:


> I thought DPL games / showcases are supposed to be played at the same time as DA games.


Just like last year LOL


----------



## Mystery Train

timbuck said:


> I agree. But it’s not about the competition. It’s about being seen by the right college scouts.
> ECNL, DA, DPL, Pilot- they are really all designed to make life easier for college scouts to see your kid play.


Well, they aren't separate things.  The coaches attend because of the level of competition.  You think if the top clubs in SoCal all put their top teams in a SoCal only league like CSL Premier or SCDSL (or created a new one) that college coaches wouldn't come to see them?  I've heard stories about what CSL Premier was like back in the days before the dilution of leagues and I understand that it was the best league in the country.  The national stuff (for league season play) is ridiculous and not needed for SoCal.  I get it if you live in the Pac Northwest, Rocky Mountain region or the plains states.  Those kids need to travel to find competition good enough for the coaches to come watch.


----------



## SoccerFan

Fact said:


> Yes. Sorry to be brief but if you search her on the Forum you will find a section on Surf  and Blues being in DPL. I believe their logos were on the DPL site. Then Blues logos was gone and the rumors started to fly that they were kicked out. This was a couple weeks before ECNLs announcement a week or 2’ago.


BLUES:
Pilot =  NO
ECNL= YES
DA=        ?


----------



## MakeAPlay

outside! said:


> Maybe I was not clear. Before GDA, there were non-ECNL clubs in SoCal (Beach, Legends, Carlsbad United/LAGSD) that were more competitive than many of the ECNL Southwest conference clubs and should have been added to ECNL but were not. This was due to either stupidity or collusion with the existing SoCal ECNL clubs and I don't think the leaders of ECNL are THAT stupid. Once GDA happened and ECNL was faced with losing $, ECNL loosened their requirements and added clubs that were less competitive than Beach, Legends or LAGSD like Del Mar Sharks (not that Sharks is a bad club, but at the time their girls teams were not as competitive as those three clubs).
> 
> As I have said before, GDA has its own problems and poor decisions. My core issue is that I believe it is stupid for any SoCal team to play league games outside of SoCal (special thanks to GDA for that Sunday evening game in Phoenix in March with school on Monday morning!). Let the best of SoCal go to some sort of summer championship, but none of them should need to travel out of state during the school year. We have enough competition right here in SoCal and the fight over $ between ECNL and GDA is being paid for by parents and players. The adults need to get their shit together and let nearby clubs play against each other. Don't drink the kool-aid, our kids are getting screwed because the powers that be are fighting over money and power and do not give a crap about our kids other than the dollar signs the see when they sign up.


I’m sorry but this is not accurate.


----------



## outside!

MakeAPlay said:


> I’m sorry but this is not accurate.


I am referring to the last couple of years, not the ancient history of when ECNL was founded. Based on that, what was inaccurate?


----------



## MakeAPlay

outside! said:


> I am referring to the last couple of years, not the ancient history of when ECNL was founded. Based on that, what was inaccurate?


I will go into it a little later when I get home.  On another note it is only 21 days until D1 schools start camp and 29 days until the first scrimmages!  And my player was cleared for full training on Monday!!


----------



## MakeAPlay

outside! said:


> I am referring to the last couple of years, not the ancient history of when ECNL was founded. Based on that, what was inaccurate?


So the first inaccuracy is stating that Beach, Legends and Carlsbad were more competitive than many of the ECNL clubs.  The ECNL clubs were chosen because they were the clubs that were winning the national championships at the contested levels.  Those other clubs didn’t win championships until the SCDSL was formed.  Now each of those clubs had individual teams that were as good as some of the middle to lower ECNL teams but they didn’t compare to the top teams.  The reason why  is really simple.  Most of the top players were concentrated on those teams and even in a region as populous as SoCal there are only 25-35 elite level players per age group.

The second and more significant inaccurate statement is that SoCal teams don’t need to travel to play good competition.  Although the old Coast Premier League was the top league in the country prior to the creation of the ECNL, the Coast champion didn’t win the national  championship every year.  As a matter of fact, they weren’t even always Far West Regional champions as there were lots of strong teams from Colorado, NorCal, Vegas. Arizona and Washington.  The top teams from those states are often better at aggregating their individual area’s talent than the teams in SoCal.  I will give you a better example.  Of the starters on the teams that participated in the College Cup 12 of a possible 44 were from SoCal a healthy 27%.  However, 7 of those players were on UCLA (a SoCal team), 4 on Stanford and only one Duke player.  There is lots of good soccer being played all over the country and the world.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Mystery Train said:


> Amen.  I can't like this comment enough.


Besides, all that driving is contributing to global warming.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

timbuck said:


> I thought DPL games / showcases are supposed to be played at the same time as DA games.


Surf Cup placed all the G03 DPL teams in the 2nd and third tiers while telling parents that ECNL wasn't competitive enough for their former ECNL girls.  And guess which bracket the ECNL teams are in? Lol!


----------



## Fact

Bruddah IZ said:


> Surf ...:......while telling parents that ECNL wasn't competitive enough for their former ECNL girls......... Lol!


^This cannot be emphasized enough.  Just like when they told parents that Presidio was not competitive enough (of course after parents paid and it was too late to find new teams).

And just like they did with Presidio I wonder when Surf will come crawling back?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Bruddah IZ said:


> Surf Cup placed all the G03 DPL teams in the 2nd and third tiers while telling parents that ECNL wasn't competitive enough for their former ECNL girls.  And guess which bracket the ECNL teams are in? Lol!


Not quite true.  They placed two of the 03 DPL pilot teams up an age group in the DA bracket of U17.


----------



## shales1002

Simisoccerfan said:


> Not quite true.  They placed two of the 03 DPL pilot teams up an age group in the DA bracket of U17.


They were put in there because they didn’t have enough teams. The schedule said “Placeholders” previously. They were looking for some fillers.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Crossfire Premier was listed in both Surf and Silverlakes but has dropped Surf now.


----------



## timbuck

Bruddah IZ said:


> Surf Cup placed all the G03 DPL teams in the 2nd and third tiers while telling parents that ECNL wasn't competitive enough for their former ECNL girls.  And guess which bracket the ECNL teams are in? Lol!


Can’t wait to come back here on August 7th to here about which ECNL team beat which DPL team (and vice versa) and because of this it is clear to anyone with a brain that one is superior.


----------



## shales1002

Simisoccerfan said:


> Crossfire Premier was listed in both Surf and Silverlakes but has dropped Surf now.


Silverlakes looks pretty stacked with regards to the teams. I can see why they would change. The only downside could possibly be the weather in Corona.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Simisoccerfan said:


> Not quite true.  They placed two of the 03 DPL pilot teams up an age group in the DA bracket of U17.


DPL and DPL Pilot are not the same thing.  Pilot teams are essentially 03 DA teams that take the 2018/2019 DA year off, while competing in the Pilot program instead.  Surf  is trying to keep their DA 03 top players from moving to an ECNL club for a year before returning for DA next year by putting them in a high college coach exposure DA bracket.  A smart move I think.


----------



## Dubs

Where are you seeing the team list?  The still haven't posted the schedule


----------



## GoWest

Final season articles for ECNL and GDA national championships. California did not disappoint....for the most part anyways with 'finals runner-ups' and a national championship trophy in each age group across both leagues:

ECNL
https://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/california-clubs-sweep-u14-u17-ecnl-national-finals/

Blues has the two best teams in their age brackets irrespective of league IMO. Slammers u15 were one of the last teams to qualify for CL and persevered. Nice story.

GDA
https://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/fc-dallas-u-15-real-colorado-u-16-17-win-girls-development-academy-titles/

Slammers u18/19's won the inaugural Girls Development Academy national championship which was a couple weeks before the Kansas City event.

Congrats for all the hard work through a chaotic and kinda weird season. Hoping 2018-2019 will be even better for all California clubs!


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Bruddah IZ said:


> Besides, all that driving is contributing to global warming.


What a fucking alarmist.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

shales1002 said:


> They were put in there because they didn’t have enough teams. The schedule said “Placeholders” previously. They were looking for some fillers.


IDK why you need to present facts in this conversation.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Dubs said:


> Where are you seeing the team list?  The still haven't posted the schedule


surf cup 2018 schedules are posted on the Surf Cup website


----------



## GoWest

timbuck said:


> Can’t wait to come back here on August 7th to here about which ECNL team beat which DPL team (and vice versa) and because of this it is clear to anyone with a brain that one is superior.


GDA built in a strategic advantage (even if nothing more than illusory) by not allowing their teams to play non-GDA teams....although, looking at the SilverLakes brackets it would seem we will see at least a couple ECNL versus GDA matchups?


----------



## shales1002

Dubs said:


> Where are you seeing the team list?  The still haven't posted the schedule


@Dubs 

https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=627


----------



## Bruddah IZ

Sheriff Joe said:


> What a fucking alarmist.


Denialist.


----------



## GoWest

shales1002 said:


> @Dubs
> 
> https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=627


What is ECNL composite versus ECNL II? Same concept but a different club spin depending upon the parents fragility at each specific club?


----------



## davin

GoWest said:


> GDA built in a strategic advantage (even if nothing more than illusory) by not allowing their teams to play non-GDA teams....although, looking at the SilverLakes brackets it would seem we will see at least a couple ECNL versus GDA matchups?


In an ECNL/GDA matchup, what substitution rules will they be using? Anybody know?


----------



## GoWest

I would think the tournament rules? In a college showcase it seems sensible IMHO.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

GoWest said:


> What is ECNL composite versus ECNL II? Same concept but a different club spin depending upon the parents fragility at each specific club?


In an effort to further player development and deepen the player pool from which elite players are developed, the Elite Clubs National League introduced “Composite Events” for ECNL member clubs beginning in the 2015-16 season. These new and unique events are established to provide players from ECNL Member Clubs with additional competition structures for mixed age group teams, teams competing in non-traditional seasons, and for other development purposes.



The 2017-18 ECNL competition season will include one Composite Event

http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/composite-events-17-18/


----------



## MarkM

davin said:


> In an ECNL/GDA matchup, what substitution rules will they be using? Anybody know?


ECNL teams can plan GDA teams in the tournaments as long as the teams play with GDA substitution rules.  And GDA teams can only play in tournaments with GDA substitution rules.


----------



## Multivitamin

Rumor Mill - Real Colorado GDA next to go ALL IN ECNL.
Don't shoot the messenger.


----------



## GoWest

Bruddah IZ said:


> In an effort to further player development and deepen the player pool from which elite players are developed, the Elite Clubs National League introduced “Composite Events” for ECNL member clubs beginning in the 2015-16 season. These new and unique events are established to provide players from ECNL Member Clubs with additional competition structures for mixed age group teams, teams competing in non-traditional seasons, and for other development purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> The 2017-18 ECNL competition season will include one Composite Event
> 
> http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/composite-events-17-18/


Thanks. Similar to 'bio-banding' then being it is across age groups? Introduced in ECNL 2015, interesting. I had heard of it in prior discussions. What then is ECNL II?


----------



## GoWest

MarkM said:


> ECNL teams can plan GDA teams in the tournaments as long as the teams play with GDA substitution rules.  And GDA teams can only play in tournaments with GDA substitution rules.


Why would any non-GDA team desire to play a GDA team in a college showcase then given the strict substitution rules? Meaningless as far as league schedule goes and counterintuitive with regard to it being a college (please notice me and recruit me) showcase?


----------



## outside!

MakeAPlay said:


> So the first inaccuracy is stating that Beach, Legends and Carlsbad were more competitive than many of the ECNL clubs.  The ECNL clubs were chosen because they were the clubs that were winning the national championships at the contested levels.  Those other clubs didn’t win championships until the SCDSL was formed.  Now each of those clubs had individual teams that were as good as some of the middle to lower ECNL teams but they didn’t compare to the top teams.  The reason why  is really simple.  Most of the top players were concentrated on those teams and even in a region as populous as SoCal there are only 25-35 elite level players per age group.


Once again, I was not talking about when ECNL was formed, I was talking about the last 2-3 years. In the last 2-3 years Beach, Legends and Carlsbad had teams that could compete (compete, not beat) with any ECNL team. In my DD's age group both Legends and Carlsbad had teams that could beat the Surf ECNL team. DD's team beat Surf's defending ECNL National Champions team at Surf Cup 2-0. At the time I was very familiar with the Surf roster and they were playing their starters in case someone tries to trot out the BS "Oh they weren't really trying to win" trope. Note that even though DD's team played in many Surf Thanksgiving tournaments after that Surf Cup win, for some reason they were never scheduled to play Surf.



MakeAPlay said:


> The second and more significant inaccurate statement is that SoCal teams don’t need to travel to play good competition.


I did not say that. I said they there is no reason for SoCal teams to travel out of state for LEAGUE games. Showcases and national championship tournaments are not LEAGUE games and are worth traveling for.

ECNL has many positives attributes as does GDA. They also have their negatives, one of which for SoCal players is out of state travel for league games when there is equivalent or better competition available locally that cannot play each other due to the power struggles of the so called adults fighting over turf. The recent history of ECNL in SoCal also indicates that ECNL leadership was either conspiring with the local ECNL clubs to limit local competition, or they were ignorant of how the local situation had changed since the time that ECNL was formed. Before GDA was formed, ECNL should have added Beach, Legends and Carlsbad to the SouthWest division and moved the out of SoCal teams to another division. If they had done that, GDA might have had a much tougher time gaining traction in SoCal. After GDA was formed, ECNL was forced to add clubs like Sharks to try to maintain market share. Now ECNL is strong arming clubs (and GDA has been all along), instead of working together for good of the players.


----------



## davin

GoWest said:


> Why would any non-GDA team desire to play a GDA team in a college showcase then given the strict substitution rules? Meaningless as far as league schedule goes and counterintuitive with regard to it being a college (please notice me and recruit me) showcase?


Agreed. My player's team is going to Silverlakes with a roster of 17. With those restrictive substitution rules, at least 1 player on the roster will not see the field each game. All of the other non-starters will likely see less playing time than they normally would get for other showcases/tournaments. Doesn't see to be the ideal scenario to play against a GDA team under those rules IMO.


----------



## MarkM

GoWest said:


> Why would any non-GDA team desire to play a GDA team in a college showcase then given the strict substitution rules? Meaningless as far as league schedule goes and counterintuitive with regard to it being a college (please notice me and recruit me) showcase?


True.  I'm just letting you know the rule.  I don't think GDA cares whether non-GDA teams desire to play GDA teams in a college   

Why would anyone play on team where they rely on liberal substitution rules to get on the field?


----------



## MarkM

davin said:


> Agreed. My player's team is going to Silverlakes with a roster of 17. With those restrictive substitution rules, at least 1 player on the roster will not see the field each game. All of the other non-starters will likely see less playing time than they normally would get for other showcases/tournaments. Doesn't see to be the ideal scenario to play against a GDA team under those rules IMO.


That's why many GDA teams have smaller rosters.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

davin said:


> Agreed. My player's team is going to Silverlakes with a roster of 17. With those restrictive substitution rules, at least 1 player on the roster will not see the field each game. All of the other non-starters will likely see less playing time than they normally would get for other showcases/tournaments. Doesn't see to be the ideal scenario to play against a GDA team under those rules IMO.


DA relaxed the sub rules for all age group this coming year except the 01/00 group.  They will allow 7 subs instead of 5.  This past season they allowed 7 subs in the showcases.  5 subs in league.


----------



## GoWest

MarkM said:


> True.  I'm just letting you know the rule.  I don't think GDA cares whether non-GDA teams desire to play GDA teams in a college
> 
> Why would anyone play on team where they rely on liberal substitution rules to get on the field?


Yeah, I getcha and appreciate the info on the rule.

Define 'liberal substitution rule'...? Personally, I have no problem with ECNL or GDA substitution rules in league play. It's the 'college showcase' piece where IMHO substitution rules that limit rostered players (up to 18 on the bench for my tastes but whatever works) from seeing the pitch is simply counterintuitive.


----------



## Justafan

GoWest said:


> Why would any non-GDA team desire to play a GDA team in a college showcase then given the strict substitution rules? Meaningless as far as league schedule goes and counterintuitive with regard to it being a college (please notice me and recruit me) showcase?


Screw logic, it’s all about the bragging rights and smack talk brotha!


----------



## GoWest

Justafan said:


> Screw logic, it’s all about the bragging rights and smack talk brotha!


LOL! I'm all in!


----------



## MakeAPlay

MarkM said:


> True.  I'm just letting you know the rule.  I don't think GDA cares whether non-GDA teams desire to play GDA teams in a college
> 
> Why would anyone play on team where they rely on liberal substitution rules to get on the field?


Other than the starters without liberal substitution rules only 13 players would play 95% of the time.  Your question is sort of like asking why anyone would play on a team that they aren’t a starter on.  Personally I would rather have my kid come off the bench at Duke than be a starter at South Alabama.


----------



## espola

MakeAPlay said:


> Other than the starters without liberal substitution rules only 13 players would play 95% of the time.  Your question is sort of like asking why anyone would play on a team that they aren’t a starter on.  Personally I would rather have my kid come off the bench at Duke than be a starter at South Alabama.


It's easy for you to say that now.  Our college search included an estimate of how long it might take to make the starting team.


----------



## MakeAPlay

espola said:


> It's easy for you to say that now.  Our college search included an estimate of how long it might take to make the starting team.


When we were going through the search process she narrowed it down to 3 schools regardless of her soccer situation.  We were just fortunate that they all had her at the top of their list at her position and all of them expected her to start as a freshman.  Her position helped because it is non glamorous but critical to national championship contenders.


----------



## Dos Equis

MarkM said:


> Why would anyone play on team where they rely on liberal substitution rules to get on the field?


In a college showcase, the goal is to get the girls playing time in front of the colleges they are interested in, whenever that coach decides to show up. Some college coaches give club coaches warning, so a coach can plan ahead. Many do not. 

Why would anyone think honoring an arbitrary substitution rule that does not reflect college rules is a good idea in a college showcase?  Do these results matter?


----------



## Dubs

Bruddah IZ said:


> surf cup 2018 schedules are posted on the Surf Cup website


Sorry... I mean the Silverlakes schedules.


----------



## Dubs

shales1002 said:


> @Dubs
> 
> https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=627


Thank you!


----------



## MarkM

MakeAPlay said:


> Other than the starters without liberal substitution rules only 13 players would play 95% of the time.  Your question is sort of like asking why anyone would play on a team that they aren’t a starter on.  Personally I would rather have my kid come off the bench at Duke than be a starter at South Alabama.


I don't know where you get your figures from.  That's not accurate based on 30+ games playing in GDA with the substitution rules.  You are ignoring injuries, camps, kids that play other sports (including HS soccer), kids that observe religious days of the week, etc..  You still need about 15/16 kids on your roster, which may be too few.  If you need a body in a pinch, call them up from your younger team.

You are right.  I'm asking why anyone would play on a youth team that they aren’t a starter or at least right on very the cusp of the starters.  You are suppose to be developing, getting better, and having fun.  That's not happening for the girls who are 16+ on the roster.  There are lots of teams at lots of levels in SoCal.  Parents should be more realistic about the level their kids are playing at.  It's a huge waste of money.  We should stop calling them substitution rules.  

Personally, college is about getting the best education you can get.  Full stop.  If you can use soccer to facilitate that, terrific.  So if the choices are Duke or South Alabama, soccer wouldn't matter.  It would be Duke regardless of whether she could even make the team.


----------



## GoWest

MarkM said:


> I'm asking why anyone would play on a youth team that they aren’t a starter or at least right on very the cusp of the starters.


Here, you seem disconnected? Maybe a result of your player always being 1-11? Player development includes (among other things) the psychological component of learning to be a supportive,  solid / good team mate when you aren't in the top 11.....even if you are #18 on a very competitive roster. Players that develop the ability to remain focused and keep a positive attitude in times when they aren't on the pitch are invaluable ... not to mention being able to come in 'off the bench' and create a spark for a team that needs it. It's not that simple @MarkM, player development is complex.


----------



## MarkM

Dos Equis said:


> In a college showcase, the goal is to get the girls playing time in front of the colleges they are interested in, whenever that coach decides to show up. Some college coaches give club coaches warning, so a coach can plan ahead. Many do not.
> 
> Why would anyone think honoring an arbitrary substitution rule that does not reflect college rules is a good idea in a college showcase?  Do these results matter?


I know what the goal of a college showcase is - we've been to more than enough.  I don't care whether the substitution rule is a good idea at a college showcase.  I wouldn't put my kid in that position to ever have to worry about that.  The team roster size doesn't change for showcases vs. other games, so your missing the point.  The kid is still on a bloated roster in which they are not playing much.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

MarkM said:


> I don't know where you get your figures from.  That's not accurate based on 30+ games playing in GDA with the substitution rules.  You are ignoring injuries, camps, kids that play other sports (including HS soccer), kids that observe religious days of the week, etc..  You still need about 15/16 kids on your roster, which may be too few.  If you need a body in a pinch, call them up from your younger team.
> 
> You are right.  I'm asking why anyone would play on a youth team that they aren’t a starter or at least right on very the cusp of the starters.  You are suppose to be developing, getting better, and having fun.  That's not happening for the girls who are 16+ on the roster.  There are lots of teams at lots of levels in SoCal.  Parents should be more realistic about the level their kids are playing at.  It's a huge waste of money.  We should stop calling them substitution rules.
> 
> Personally, college is about getting the best education you can get.  Full stop.  If you can use soccer to facilitate that, terrific.  So if the choices are Duke or South Alabama, soccer wouldn't matter.  It would be Duke regardless of whether she could even make the team.


Almost every club team has kids that should be on a lower level team, at least in my experience.
It is painful to listen to some parents talk about how good their kid is, especially when they don't start and rarely play.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MarkM said:


> I don't know where you get your figures from.  That's not accurate based on 30+ games playing in GDA with the substitution rules.  You are ignoring injuries, camps, kids that play other sports (including HS soccer), kids that observe religious days of the week, etc..  You still need about 15/16 kids on your roster, which may be too few.  If you need a body in a pinch, call them up from your younger team.
> 
> You are right.  I'm asking why anyone would play on a youth team that they aren’t a starter or at least right on very the cusp of the starters.  You are suppose to be developing, getting better, and having fun.  That's not happening for the girls who are 16+ on the roster.  There are lots of teams at lots of levels in SoCal.  Parents should be more realistic about the level their kids are playing at.  It's a huge waste of money.  We should stop calling them substitution rules.
> 
> Personally, college is about getting the best education you can get.  Full stop.  If you can use soccer to facilitate that, terrific.  So if the choices are Duke or South Alabama, soccer wouldn't matter.  It would be Duke regardless of whether she could even make the team.



I am not ignoring extenuating circumstances I just am not RELYING on them.  My assumption is that the games matter and you get 3 subs (non-friendly FIFA rules).  Other than the girls senior year of high school they are going to show up for games or they won’t be on the team.  Any less than 18 players for a standard US women’s soccer game is playing with fire.  My daughter’s senior year several times they only had 12-14 players and it was tough.  Heck my player missed more games her senior year then all the other years combined!

The bottom line is that 99.99% of the female players have college as their goal and for 90%+ they won’t even play in college and 97%+ won’t play Division 1.  Why play by FIFA rules when not every club will even produce an international or pro player?  Personally I think that GDA should be an elite program like ODP used to be if they are really trying to develop world class players then why intermingle the elite with the good?  

We are in agreement when it comes to college, however, if a kid cares about actually playing in college that should be a consideration.  Not to mention they have to want to go there.  Offers from Stanford, Notre Dame and Harvard are meaningless if your kid wants to go to school locally.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Dos Equis

MarkM said:


> I know what the goal of a college showcase is - we've been to more than enough.  I don't care whether the substitution rule is a good idea at a college showcase.  I wouldn't put my kid in that position to ever have to worry about that.  The team roster size doesn't change for showcases vs. other games, so your missing the point.  The kid is still on a bloated roster in which they are not playing much.


No, you are defending a position that would imply that no kid join a roster with over 15 players. Development happens in practice more than games, even the GDA recognizes that. So I want my kid challenged every day they play, even if that challenge is earning playing time come game days.  And I have never seen a top level coach or team in any league above U12 feel substitution rules required they play a kid who has not earned playing time. 

But a college showcase is different. If you have been to many, you know that kids may only get a few minutes to impress a coach or grab their attention. So a system/league that suppports the players true development, into a college athlete, would facilitate that with liberal substitution rules when appropriate.


----------



## MarkM

Dos Equis said:


> No, you are defending a position that would imply that no kid join a roster with over 15 players. Development happens in practice more than games, even the GDA recognizes that. So I want my kid challenged every day they play, even if that challenge is earning playing time come game days.  And I have never seen a top level coach or team in any league above U12 feel substitution rules required they play a kid who has not earned playing time.
> 
> But a college showcase is different. If you have been to many, you know that kids may only get a few minutes to impress a coach or grab their attention. So a system/league that suppports the players true development, into a college athlete, would facilitate that with liberal substitution rules when appropriate.


Don't really disagree, except "earned playing timing."  

Tactically, many "top" coaches and teams bring these bench players in to press hard for 20 minutes.   That's an effective strategy.   I'm not sure if that is earning playing timing.  It's certainly terrible soccer that develops no one.  I'm guessing you have seen the Blues play, so you know what I'm talking about.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Silverlakes DA va ECNL competition.  What everyone has been wanting.


----------



## Pitch pop

GoWest said:


> Here, you seem disconnected? Maybe a result of your player always being 1-11? Player development includes (among other things) the psychological component of learning to be a supportive,  solid / good team mate when you aren't in the top 11.....even if you are #18 on a very competitive roster. Players that develop the ability to remain focused and keep a positive attitude in times when they aren't on the pitch are invaluable ... not to mention being able to come in 'off the bench' and create a spark for a team that needs it. It's not that simple @MarkM, player development is complex.


At this stage the focus should be developing your player as a player not a watcher. There is no substitution for playing time when it comes to development.  The things you mentioned above shouldnt be the primary focus at this stage in their development (or really ever for that matter). Unless you’re focus is developing your player to be the best bench player she can be. Find a team where she can play and is still be challenged. That is the balance you want.


----------



## GoWest

Simisoccerfan said:


> Silverlakes DA va ECNL competition.  What everyone has been wanting.


A season removed now, I would think rosters have changed up on the old ECNL turned GDA teams enough to make it a legit 'GDA v ECNL' couple of games? There may even be some appetite for making a bracket specifically for this type of competition on an annual basis at Silverlakes? (Keep the GDA only bracket at Surf and carve out a niche for an expanded bracket) New season brings roster changes so may be a little less shiny versus taking the top NC trophy winners in each age bracket and placing them against one another immediately following the season for a 'true(r)' national champion.....but that's probably too much to ask.........??


----------



## Multivitamin

I am noticing around the country ECNL clubs are aligning themselves with USL teams and calling themselves affiliates. What does ECNL have up their sleeves next?


----------



## Lambchop

GoWest said:


> A season removed now, I would think rosters have changed up on the old ECNL turned GDA teams enough to make it a legit 'GDA v ECNL' couple of games? There may even be some appetite for making a bracket specifically for this type of competition on an annual basis at Silverlakes? (Keep the GDA only bracket at Surf and carve out a niche for an expanded bracket) New season brings roster changes so may be a little less shiny versus taking the top NC trophy winners in each age bracket and placing them against one another immediately following the season for a 'true(r)' national champion.....but that's probably too much to ask.........??[/Q
> 
> 
> Simisoccerfan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Silverlakes DA va ECNL competition.  What everyone has been wanting.
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely not "there"!
Click to expand...


----------



## rooney rules

Multivitamin said:


> I am noticing around the country ECNL clubs are aligning themselves with USL teams and calling themselves affiliates. What does ECNL have up their sleeves next?


Anybody notice that a non USSDA team is playing in the u19 bracket at Surf - SoCal Academy G2000 Chavez. They have been CSL premier champions for 3 years straight and were NC runner up to Legends South this past spring. So far they have beaten both So Cal Blues and Real So Cal! It does show you that a really good coach and a team that sticks together can be competitive.  Sure DA teams will get the exposure and over the long run attract and develop the best players but if the coach of a smaller club team is strong at developing players, well respected and connected to colleges it can still be an alternative to the ultra commitment (and expense) of DA and not mean college soccer is out of reach.  I know that this team just graduated 3 girls who are going to college and 8 of the current roster are committed at D1 through D3 level. This could have easily been Legends South with Coach Lawler or CDA Slammers Elite.  Both at Frisco this week representing CalSouth in the national finals.


----------



## LadiesMan217

rooney rules said:


> Anybody notice that a non USSDA team is playing in the u19 bracket at Surf - SoCal Academy G2000 Chavez. They have been CSL premier champions for 3 years straight and were NC runner up to Legends South this past spring. So far they have beaten both So Cal Blues and Real So Cal! It does show you that a really good coach and a team that sticks together can be competitive.  Sure DA teams will get the exposure and over the long run attract and develop the best players but if the coach of a smaller club team is strong at developing players, well respected and connected to colleges it can still be an alternative to the ultra commitment (and expense) of DA and not mean college soccer is out of reach.  I know that this team just graduated 3 girls who are going to college and 8 of the current roster are committed at D1 through D3 level. This could have easily been Legends South with Coach Lawler or CDA Slammers Elite.  Both at Frisco this week representing CalSouth in the national finals.


That team has been a winning team since U14. Not sure I would say 'really' good coach - reminds me way too much of a Baker and teaches the same tactics. It does work for U.S. girls club soccer though so hats off to them.


----------



## futboldad1

LadiesMan217 said:


> That team has been a winning team since U14. Not sure I would say 'really' good coach - reminds me way too much of a Baker and teaches the same tactics. It does work for U.S. girls club soccer though so hats off to them.


Utter garbage. The So Cal Chavez G2000s play very good soccer. In the 2018 National Cup final they played, Legends just slammed it forward the entire game and used long throws, very little possession. Maybe you're mixing them up with what Baker does.

I don't have horse in this race, but time and time again I see various teams talked about and it's almost all negative. Trolling they call it. Rather than argue, I'll simply post an unedited link to the game I saw them recently play where they lost in OT. Everyone can watch for themselves and see if This So Cal G2000s use the same tactics, it's very obvious they do not...


----------



## rooney rules

LadiesMan217 said:


> That team has been a winning team since U14. Not sure I would say 'really' good coach - reminds me way too much of a Baker and teaches the same tactics. It does work for U.S. girls club soccer though so hats off to them.


There are lots of different style of coaching - Pep, Klopp and Mourinho all have different styles that they prefer, each would be called a great coach. I am sure a lot of people on this board would jump at a chance to play on the Baker Blues team with their success and college recruiting record.  I was not really saying anything about the SoCal team specifically more about the fact that there are some very competitive non-DA teams out there.  

And finally isn’t success at girls club soccer what this is all about and a chance to play in college for those who are good enough.  For the 0.01% who are on national track then DA is the option.  Not all our DD’s are on that track so a good, healthy and competitive environment for their level is the key.


----------



## Monkey

Mystery Train said:


> If it's true that ECNL pulled the rug out from under them, and that's what they are saying to parents, then I can sympathize with the club.  But if ECNL yanked away their membership and then Surf is trying to sell DPL as a better product, then I would be taking my kids' talents to "south beach" ... along with a full refund!


If ECNL pulled the rug out from under Surf, then one of their former coaches is a mind reader. Come on Surf homers spill this weeks events.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Monkey said:


> If ECNL pulled the rug out from under Surf, then one of their former coaches is a mind reader. Come on Surf homers spill this weeks events.


Which coach?


----------



## Monkey

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Which coach?


I just sent you a private message.


----------



## Monkey

Reed


----------



## SoccerMom05

futboldad1 said:


> Utter garbage. The So Cal Chavez G2000s play very good soccer. In the 2018 National Cup final they played, Legends just slammed it forward the entire game and used long throws, very little possession. Maybe you're mixing them up with what Baker does.
> 
> I don't have horse in this race, but time and time again I see various teams talked about and it's almost all negative. Trolling they call it. Rather than argue, I'll simply post an unedited link to the game I saw them recently play where they lost in OT. Everyone can watch for themselves and see if This So Cal G2000s use the same tactics, it's very obvious they do not...


Couldn't have said it better.. Absolutely love watching this team play the right way of soccer. Everyone should check out the video you posted and judge for themselves


----------



## LadiesMan217

SoccerMom05 said:


> Couldn't have said it better.. Absolutely love watching this team play the right way of soccer. Everyone should check out the video you posted and judge for themselves


Yes - I stood corrected in another post. I am not ashamed to eat my words. Glad to hear this!


----------



## Mystery Train

SoccerMom05 said:


> Couldn't have said it better.. Absolutely love watching this team play the right way of soccer. Everyone should check out the video you posted and judge for themselves


Congrats on the big win today at Surf.  We could hear you guys cheering from our field!


----------



## SoccerMom05

Mystery Train said:


> Congrats on the big win today at Surf.  We could hear you guys cheering from our field!


My daughter plays for 05 team but have watched these girls play for a few years and Am a big fan. I am sure the cheers were loud being that they were the only non DA team to win USSDA bracket.


----------



## Mystery Train

Hey @SocalPapa , did you do a breakdown of the DA vs. non-DA teams from the past couple weeks at Surf Cup and Silverlakes?  I glanced at a few random results, it seems that (as many have stated) there's some good teams at the top of each league, and some bad ones in each.  DA is no exception, losing some games badly to non-DA league teams, and beating some soundly in other instances.  Not sure what the final tally of ECNL vs. DA teams looked like.


----------



## Toepoke

Mystery Train said:


> Hey @SocalPapa , did you do a breakdown of the DA vs. non-DA teams from the past couple weeks at Surf Cup and Silverlakes? I glanced at a few random results, it seems that (as many have stated) there's some good teams at the top of each league, and some bad ones in each. DA is no exception, losing some games badly to non-DA league teams, and beating some soundly in other instances. Not sure what the final tally of ECNL vs. DA teams looked like.


I'm here bored at work so I thought I'd do head-to-head results from Silverlakes ECNL vs DA games for each age group. Listed is the group winner, total of H2H games, DA wins, ECNL wins, Ties and total goals scored during the H2H DA and ECNL games in that age group.

*2000 - Washington Premiere ECNL*, 9 H2H, DA (3), ECNL (4), Ties (2)
              Goals: DA - 6     ECNL - 25

*2002 - Slammers ECNL*, 9 H2H, DA (5), ECNL (4), Ties (0)
              Goals: DA - 12     ECNL - 12

*2003 - MVLA ECNL*, 2 H2H, DA (0), ECNL (2), Ties (0)
              Goals: DA - 2     ECNL - 4

*2004 - MVLA ECNL*, 15 H2H, DA (4), ECNL (7), Ties (4)
              Goals: DA - 15     ECNL - 20

*2005 - Legends DA*, 5 H2H, DA (2), ECNL (2), Ties (1)
              Goals: DA - 4     ECNL - 6

Overall the games appeared competitive except for the ones involving the 00/01 PSV team which did not score a goal and allowed a total of 15 goals. With this being a showcase it's hard to do a true breakdown due some teams ended up playing teams from the bottom of the table while others played teams from the top. It will be interesting to see if Silverlakes will continue with these match ups or if other tournaments will also add DA vs ECNL matchups.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Toepoke said:


> I'm here bored at work so I thought I'd do head-to-head results from Silverlakes ECNL vs DA games for each age group. Listed is the group winner, total of H2H games, DA wins, ECNL wins, Ties and total goals scored during the H2H DA and ECNL games in that age group.
> 
> *2000 - Washington Premiere ECNL*, 9 H2H, DA (3), ECNL (4), Ties (2)
> Goals: DA - 6     ECNL - 25
> 
> *2002 - Slammers ECNL*, 9 H2H, DA (5), ECNL (4), Ties (0)
> Goals: DA - 12     ECNL - 12
> 
> *2003 - MVLA ECNL*, 2 H2H, DA (0), ECNL (2), Ties (0)
> Goals: DA - 2     ECNL - 4
> 
> *2004 - MVLA ECNL*, 15 H2H, DA (4), ECNL (7), Ties (4)
> Goals: DA - 15     ECNL - 20
> 
> *2005 - Legends DA*, 5 H2H, DA (2), ECNL (2), Ties (1)
> Goals: DA - 4     ECNL - 6
> 
> Overall the games appeared competitive except for the ones involving the 00/01 PSV team which did not score a goal and allowed a total of 15 goals. With this being a showcase it's hard to do a true breakdown due some teams ended up playing teams from the bottom of the table while others played teams from the top. It will be interesting to see if Silverlakes will continue with these match ups or if other tournaments will also add DA vs ECNL matchups.


Thank you for breaking this down for us!

Seems to me like the  ECNL teams performed better.  Curious since they practice less and play horrible high school soccer.  Seems that US Soccer as usual picked a fight that it is losing when it should have collaborated with its biggest developer of high end talent.

SHAMEFUL.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

So how does the traveling for ECNL work? Do the girls travel and stay together or do the players travel and stay with the parents?


----------



## davin

Sheriff Joe said:


> So how does the traveling for ECNL work? Do the girls travel and stay together or do the players travel and stay with the parents?


It depends on the club. Some clubs travel as a team with chaperones, but not all. In my daughter's club, parents travel with their parents, but we also have the options to send our player with another family and share the costs.


----------



## LadiesMan217

davin said:


> It depends on the club. Some clubs travel as a team with chaperones, but not all. In my daughter's club, parents travel with their parents, but we also have the options to send our player with another family and share the costs.


So the club made the grand parents travel?


----------



## davin

LadiesMan217 said:


> So the club made the grand parents travel?


Oops. Haha. Meant "players travel with their parents".


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Toepoke said:


> I'm here bored at work so I thought I'd do head-to-head results from Silverlakes ECNL vs DA games for each age group. Listed is the group winner, total of H2H games, DA wins, ECNL wins, Ties and total goals scored during the H2H DA and ECNL games in that age group.
> 
> *2000 - Washington Premiere ECNL*, 9 H2H, DA (3), ECNL (4), Ties (2)
> Goals: DA - 6     ECNL - 25
> 
> *2002 - Slammers ECNL*, 9 H2H, DA (5), ECNL (4), Ties (0)
> Goals: DA - 12     ECNL - 12
> 
> *2003 - MVLA ECNL*, 2 H2H, DA (0), ECNL (2), Ties (0)
> Goals: DA - 2     ECNL - 4
> 
> *2004 - MVLA ECNL*, 15 H2H, DA (4), ECNL (7), Ties (4)
> Goals: DA - 15     ECNL - 20
> 
> *2005 - Legends DA*, 5 H2H, DA (2), ECNL (2), Ties (1)
> Goals: DA - 4     ECNL - 6
> 
> Overall the games appeared competitive except for the ones involving the 00/01 PSV team which did not score a goal and allowed a total of 15 goals. With this being a showcase it's hard to do a true breakdown due some teams ended up playing teams from the bottom of the table while others played teams from the top. It will be interesting to see if Silverlakes will continue with these match ups or if other tournaments will also add DA vs ECNL matchups.


Maybe since it was too late in the night when you did this but you got the 2000 age group wrong.   Beach DA beat San Juan ECNL.  Eagles DA beat Seattle ECNL.  Eagles DA beat San Juan ECNL.  Legends DA beat MVLA ECNL.  LA Premier DA beat Seattle ECNL.  So thats 5 wins for DA not 3.  Not sure if you made similar mistakes elsewhere.


----------



## Toepoke

Simisoccerfan said:


> Maybe since it was too late in the night when you did this but you got the 2000 age group wrong.   Beach DA beat San Juan ECNL.  Eagles DA beat Seattle ECNL.  Eagles DA beat San Juan ECNL.  Legends DA beat MVLA ECNL.  LA Premier DA beat Seattle ECNL.  So thats 5 wins for DA not 3.  Not sure if you made similar mistakes elsewhere.


I should have indicated I didn't include the wins against San Juan ECNL because its a composite team. An ECNL composite team is not the top team for an ECNL club. It's like a DPL team for a DA club except that an ECNL club will only have 1 composite team competing in the oldest age group. I can go deeper into this but in short the best players for an ECNL club are not playing on the composite team which is why those 2 wins were not included.

And to address any other misunderstandings, I included the 00 Crossfire Premier results as a DA team even though they're a dual club and the 00 standings didn't indicate if it was a DA or ECNL team. But since they only played 1 ECNL team that ended in a tie it didn't have much of an impact on the breakdown.


----------



## MakeAPlay

@Lambchop stick your head in the sand like a dumb ostrich if you want to.  I have the benefit of wisdom and experience in these matters.  The GDA isn’t producing good product and it is clear.  The U20 team just lost their opening game and eventually we are going to continue to decline as long as US Soccer keeps up with the silliness of the half ass GDA and the nepotism in hiring coaches and selecting players with average technical skills.  Japan and Spain are both slower less athletic teams but with technical players at every position and they are doing much better than we are and we had a 20 year headstart, more resources AND Title IX.  Keep drinking the kool aid.  It will smack you in the face eventually!


----------



## shales1002

Sheriff Joe said:


> So how does the traveling for ECNL work? Do the girls travel and stay together or do the players travel and stay with the parents?


Our club travels together via Chartered Bus. We send a couple of chaperones per team.


----------



## shales1002

MakeAPlay said:


> @Lambchop stick your head in the sand like a dumb ostrich if you want to.  I have the benefit of wisdom and experience in these matters.  The GDA isn’t producing good product and it is clear.  The U20 team just lost their opening game and eventually we are going to continue to decline as long as US Soccer keeps up with the silliness of the half ass GDA and the nepotism in hiring coaches and selecting players with average technical skills.  Japan and Spain are both slower less athletic teams but with technical players at every position and they are doing much better than we are and we had a 20 year headstart, more resources AND Title IX.  Keep drinking the kool aid.  It will smack you in the face eventually!



Can we add picking the best players to that list of yours? IJS...


----------



## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> Maybe since it was too late in the night when you did this but you got the 2000 age group wrong.   Beach DA beat San Juan ECNL.  Eagles DA beat Seattle ECNL.  Eagles DA beat San Juan ECNL.  Legends DA beat MVLA ECNL.  LA Premier DA beat Seattle ECNL.  So thats 5 wins for DA not 3.  Not sure if you made similar mistakes elsewhere.


If GDA teams are so special why don’t they win every time?  My player’s team has committed only one GDA player.  One.  A top 5 team that only has one GDA commit in the entire country.  Let that sink in.  Colleges recruit players not teams and since they have to win in order to keep their jobs they are typically the better evaluators of talent unlike US Soccer where on the women’s side clearly neither winning nor development matter.


----------



## timbuck

Maybe they were afraid of getting "Mallory Pugh'ed" again.  Sign a top player who decides to forgo college to play NWSL/US National team.


----------



## Toepoke

Simisoccerfan said:


> Maybe since it was too late in the night when you did this but you got the 2000 age group wrong.   Beach DA beat San Juan ECNL.  Eagles DA beat Seattle ECNL.  Eagles DA beat San Juan ECNL.  Legends DA beat MVLA ECNL.  LA Premier DA beat Seattle ECNL.  So thats 5 wins for DA not 3.  Not sure if you made similar mistakes elsewhere.


So I double checked (as I am sure you did as well) to confirm there were no other mistakes in the breakdown. The final tally for all age groups combined...
Wins: ECNL (19)  DA (14)  and 7 ties
Goals: ECNL (67)  DA (39)  +28 GD for ECNL teams 

Removing the results from the 00 PSV team still leaves the ECNL teams with a +13 GD. Now if you add the results from Surf Cup to the tally where SoCal Academy competed in the DA bracket...
Wins: Non-DA (23)  DA (14) and 7 ties
Goals: Non-DA (76)  DA (42)  +34 GD for Non-DA teams
Legends DA showed well at Silverlakes going 4-1-1 vs ECNL teams with a +3 GD overall (8 GF, 5 GA). 

I know you're a strong supporter of GDA, rightfully so since your DD is with a DA club, but these results may force US soccer to ensure competition vs non-DA teams doesn't happen. Yes I know it's a small sample size but a +34 GD is huge and a lot bigger than I expected for either side. And this is with none of the top ECNL teams competing at Silverlakes. If Strikers 03 or Blues 01 or 02 teams were competing the GD would have increased significantly.

I didn't do this tally to knock GDA as I'm a supporter of the creation of the league. But it should truly be for the elite players and not just another national league. 98% of the girls in GDA have little to no chance at making a YNT. That is not saying they're not good players but steel sharpens steel as the saying goes and watching the U20 team lose today was disappointing.


----------



## Mystery Train

Toepoke said:


> I didn't do this tally to knock GDA as I'm a supporter of the creation of the league. But it should truly be for the elite players and not just another national league. 98% of the girls in GDA have little to no chance at making a YNT. That is not saying they're not good players but steel sharpens steel as the saying goes and watching the U20 team lose today was disappointing.


^^^This x 1000


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Toepoke said:


> So I double checked (as I am sure you did as well) to confirm there were no other mistakes in the breakdown. The final tally for all age groups combined...
> Wins: ECNL (19)  DA (14)  and 7 ties
> Goals: ECNL (67)  DA (39)  +28 GD for ECNL teams
> 
> Removing the results from the 00 PSV team still leaves the ECNL teams with a +13 GD. Now if you add the results from Surf Cup to the tally where SoCal Academy competed in the DA bracket...
> Wins: Non-DA (23)  DA (14) and 7 ties
> Goals: Non-DA (76)  DA (42)  +34 GD for Non-DA teams
> Legends DA showed well at Silverlakes going 4-1-1 vs ECNL teams with a +3 GD overall (8 GF, 5 GA).
> 
> I know you're a strong supporter of GDA, rightfully so since your DD is with a DA club, but these results may force US soccer to ensure competition vs non-DA teams doesn't happen. Yes I know it's a small sample size but a +34 GD is huge and a lot bigger than I expected for either side. And this is with none of the top ECNL teams competing at Silverlakes. If Strikers 03 or Blues 01 or 02 teams were competing the GD would have increased significantly.
> 
> I didn't do this tally to knock GDA as I'm a supporter of the creation of the league. But it should truly be for the elite players and not just another national league. 98% of the girls in GDA have little to no chance at making a YNT. That is not saying they're not good players but steel sharpens steel as the saying goes and watching the U20 team lose today was disappointing.


I am a supporter but no I did  not check the remainder of your results.  Since GDA has only been in place for one year and almost all of the U20 team had played ECNL I am not sure how you can say this one loss is some sort of statement for the DA.  Certainly some may say it says something about the whole of US Soccer  but I would wait till more games are played.


----------



## MarkM

Toepoke said:


> So I double checked (as I am sure you did as well) to confirm there were no other mistakes in the breakdown. The final tally for all age groups combined...
> Wins: ECNL (19)  DA (14)  and 7 ties
> Goals: ECNL (67)  DA (39)  +28 GD for ECNL teams
> 
> Removing the results from the 00 PSV team still leaves the ECNL teams with a +13 GD. Now if you add the results from Surf Cup to the tally where SoCal Academy competed in the DA bracket...
> Wins: Non-DA (23)  DA (14) and 7 ties
> Goals: Non-DA (76)  DA (42)  +34 GD for Non-DA teams
> Legends DA showed well at Silverlakes going 4-1-1 vs ECNL teams with a +3 GD overall (8 GF, 5 GA).
> 
> I know you're a strong supporter of GDA, rightfully so since your DD is with a DA club, but these results may force US soccer to ensure competition vs non-DA teams doesn't happen. Yes I know it's a small sample size but a +34 GD is huge and a lot bigger than I expected for either side. And this is with none of the top ECNL teams competing at Silverlakes. If Strikers 03 or Blues 01 or 02 teams were competing the GD would have increased significantly.
> 
> I didn't do this tally to knock GDA as I'm a supporter of the creation of the league. But it should truly be for the elite players and not just another national league. 98% of the girls in GDA have little to no chance at making a YNT. That is not saying they're not good players but steel sharpens steel as the saying goes and watching the U20 team lose today was disappointing.


Virtually none of the girls on the U20 team played in GDA.  It's existed for one year.  How is that even relevant?

Check out the player rankings and college commitments in SoCal from 03 and younger.  It's very heavily skewed in favor of GDA - although the recent Slammers transition back to ECNL only makes that a bit more complicated of analysis.  At the older ages, kids already committed definitely stuck around ECNL to play HS soccer.  But it will interesting to see if the youngers move out of DA once HS starts.


----------



## Desert Hound

shales1002 said:


> Our club travels together via Chartered Bus. We send a couple of chaperones per team.


That is the way to do it. We rent a couple of Greyhound size buses and all the teams travel together plus a few chaperones per team. Saves money, the girls love it, and the parents who go actually like it. Why? Because they can basically hang out for the weekend without worrying about running their DD around. Go watch a game, say hi to the DD and then head out with the other adults, etc.


----------



## Soccerfan2

GDA is not quite one year old and will be evolving for quite some time. Might be a little early to draw conclusions about which is better, right? Without question top players are split between GDA and ECNL right now. The older age groups obviously stuck with ECNL for the first year. Youngers will be (and already are) different. Speaking for the 05 age group which I know well, slightly more of the top players are going DA so far. While the merits of the two systems can be debated, nobody could reasonably argue that DA players aren’t getting outstanding exposure.


----------



## MakeAPlay

timbuck said:


> Maybe they were afraid of getting "Mallory Pugh'ed" again.  Sign a top player who decides to forgo college to play NWSL/US National team.


Yup that’s it.  You keep on thinking that way buddy.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerfan2 said:


> GDA is not quite one year old and will be evolving for quite some time. Might be a little early to draw conclusions about which is better, right? Without question top players are split between GDA and ECNL right now. The older age groups obviously stuck with ECNL for the first year. Youngers will be (and already are) different. Speaking for the 05 age group which I know well, slightly more of the top players are going DA so far. While the merits of the two systems can be debated, nobody could reasonably argue that DA players aren’t getting outstanding exposure.


Outstanding exposure and EXPOSED.  There aren’t enough top players to make two 22 man rosters in any age group in SoCal.  There are plenty of good players that should be playing local club teams with the occasional showcase.  Elite players are done a serious disservice by playing with players that are simply good.  It’s like having a calculus class full of Geometry students.  It slows down the calculus students from learning at a proper speed and in the proper position.  How many GDA forwards and mids will be playing other positions if they play in college because they really don’t have the skills to evade a top level defender?


----------



## Desert Hound

Soccerfan2 said:


> GDA is not quite one year old and will be evolving for quite some time. Might be a little early to draw conclusions about which is better, right? Without question top players are split between GDA and ECNL right now. The older age groups obviously stuck with ECNL for the first year. Youngers will be (and already are) different. Speaking for the 05 age group which I know well, slightly more of the top players are going DA so far. While the merits of the two systems can be debated, nobody could reasonably argue that DA players aren’t getting outstanding exposure.


It is going to take a few years before one can really say where the talent ends up. As you said...the olders mainly stayed ECNL. Why move when you are already committed? DA has to figure a few things out for sure. For college exposure you are probably not going wrong picking either...at least for the next 2-3 yrs.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MarkM said:


> Virtually none of the girls on the U20 team played in GDA.  It's existed for one year.  How is that even relevant?


False.  1/4 of the roster played GDA the announcer couldn’t wait to share that fact.  Every player who isn’t a college player was on a GDA roster.  The leading friggin scorer in GDA is on the team.  Honestly none of the players should have been GDA players.


----------



## Soccerfan2

MakeAPlay said:


> Outstanding exposure and EXPOSED.  There aren’t enough top players to make two 22 man rosters in any age group in SoCal.  There are plenty of good players that should be playing local club teams with the occasional showcase.  Elite players are done a serious disservice by playing with players that are simply good.  It’s like having a calculus class full of Geometry students.  It slows down the calculus students from learning at a proper speed and in the proper position.  How many GDA forwards and mids will be playing other positions if they play in college because they really don’t have the skills to evade a top level defender?


I was worried about roster size but my daughter’s GDA roster is 16. The very top players in the area are all in GDA. The youth national pool picks in and around her age group that I’ve seen over the last 12 mo are mostly coming out of GDA teams and they are picks that make sense to me.  In order to work against those players my kid’s gotta be GDA. That’s the current landscape for her age group. We don’t have ECNL experience so we have no hangups about supporting GDA. I can say that our regional US soccer TA is outstanding and I think she will drive improvement in our club and I’m glad that my daughter gets to work with her.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MarkM said:


> Virtually none of the girls on the U20 team played in GDA.  It's existed for one year.  How is that even relevant?
> 
> Check out the player rankings and college commitments in SoCal from 03 and younger.  It's very heavily skewed in favor of GDA - although the recent Slammers transition back to ECNL only makes that a bit more complicated of analysis.  At the older ages, kids already committed definitely stuck around ECNL to play HS soccer.  But it will interesting to see if the youngers move out of DA once HS starts.


My player’s team only has one GDA player regardless of year committed and they have three 2021 recruits already. I only see 2 GDA players for Stanford 2019 or more current.  Any decent player can get committed.  There are 321+ D1 schools and many times that if you include all of the other levels.  Ask yourself where the top players (the ones going to the top 10-16 schools) are playing.  Now look at the top 5 or 6 programs.  Where are those players going.  TDS rankings mean nothing.  Big money offers from top schools tell you who the best players are.  My kid was like the 24th ranked player in SoCal in her graduating class but has done more than everyone above her including two on her team that aren’t starters whereas she has started every game and been with the first XI on her team since the first summer practice prior to her freshman year.  The best players often fly under the radar because good teams can hide a player’s deficiencies that get exposed in college.


----------



## megnation

MakeAPlay said:


> False.  1/4 of the roster played GDA the announcer couldn’t wait to share that fact.  Every player who isn’t a college player was on a GDA roster.  The leading friggin scorer in GDA is on the team.  Honestly none of the players should have been GDA players.


17 of the 21 players just finished either their Freshman or Sophomore year in College..... Basically 17 of them were not around for GDA..

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2018/08/03/19/22/20180803-preview-u20wnt-fifa-u20-womens-world-cup-france-2018


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerfan2 said:


> I was worried about roster size but my daughter’s GDA roster is 16. The very top players in the area are all in GDA. The youth national pool picks in and around her age group that I’ve seen over the last 12 mo are mostly coming out of GDA teams and they are picks that make sense to me.  In order to work against those players my kid’s gotta be GDA. That’s the current landscape for her age group. We don’t have ECNL experience so we have no hangups about supporting GDA. I can say that our regional US soccer TA is outstanding and I think she will drive improvement in our club and I’m glad that my daughter gets to work with her.


You gotta do what you gotta do.  US Soccer is intentionally picking GDA players over others in order to create a self fulfilling prophecy.  Guess what.  It won’t work because the cream always rises to the top and everything else is just curds and whey.  No matter how hard US Soccer tries you can’t turn a sows ear into a silk purse.  US Soccer has club parents fooled.

I will just shut up about it.  You have been warned.


----------



## MakeAPlay

megnation said:


> 17 of the 21 players just finished either their Freshman or Sophomore year in College..... Basically 17 of them were not around for GDA..
> 
> https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2018/08/03/19/22/20180803-preview-u20wnt-fifa-u20-womens-world-cup-france-2018


I count 6 but I am not just reading articles I KNOW what I am talking about. You might want to relook at that roster.  Out of the 15 college players maybe 5 or 6 should have been there and none of the high schoolers should be there.  I count only 3 players on that field that played in the College Cup.  They have players on the roster that don’t start on their college teams!!  Curious to say the least.


----------



## Soccerfan2

MakeAPlay said:


> You gotta do what you gotta do.  US Soccer is intentionally picking GDA players over others in order to create a self fulfilling prophecy.  Guess what.  It won’t work because the cream always rises to the top and everything else is just curds and whey.  No matter how hard US Soccer tries you can’t turn a sows ear into a silk purse.  US Soccer has club parents fooled.
> 
> I will just shut up about it.  You have been warned.


I haven’t seen an 05 or 06 player picked that shouldn’t have been, and the most recent 05 picked isn’t GDA. I don’t see evidence of your claim in those age groups yet.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerfan2 said:


> I haven’t seen an 05 or 06 player picked that shouldn’t have been, and the most recent 05 picked isn’t GDA. I don’t see evidence of your claim in those age groups yet.


So what you are saying is you already know who are going to be the best 18+ year old players by what you have seen at 12/13?  I call bullshit.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerfan2 said:


> I haven’t seen an 05 or 06 player picked that shouldn’t have been, and the most recent 05 picked isn’t GDA. I don’t see evidence of your claim in those age groups yet.


U$C, Stanford, UCLA and Penn State have a bench full of U14/15 national team players that don’t play very much FYI.


----------



## Soccerfan2

MakeAPlay said:


> So what you are saying is you already know who are going to be the best 18+ year old players by what you have seen at 12/13?  I call bullshit.


Not what I said and nobody knows that, US Soccer included.
I’m saying I don’t see evidence of US Soccer favoring GDA players over ECNL players.


----------



## davin

Soccerfan2 said:


> I haven’t seen an 05 or 06 player picked that shouldn’t have been, and the most recent 05 picked isn’t GDA. I don’t see evidence of your claim in those age groups yet.


There are some players who are so talented that US Soccer can't ignore them even if they wanted to. I think I know which 05 kid you're referring to, and she plays up on a top 04 ECNL team and she is big-time difference maker. She stands out playing a year up and at the highest level. Her talent level forced US Soccer's hand.


----------



## timbuck

Bit of a topic shift-  but with the 05 Slammers team that made it to Hawaii and just won Surf Cup pretty much owning So Cal and most others over the past 2 years-  Have they considered playing up a year?  
Or having some players play up? (Maybe they already have/do). 
With Slammers going all in with ECNL- does this team lose a game over the next 12 months?


----------



## MarkM

MakeAPlay said:


> False.  1/4 of the roster played GDA the announcer couldn’t wait to share that fact.  Every player who isn’t a college player was on a GDA roster.  The leading friggin scorer in GDA is on the team.  Honestly none of the players should have been GDA players.


Stop spinning yourself in circles dude.  I don't care if it was 3 or 6 girls.  You cited the u20 teams as evidence of how bad GDA.  It's a bad example.


----------



## MarkM

MakeAPlay said:


> My player’s team only has one GDA player regardless of year committed and they have three 2021 recruits already. I only see 2 GDA players for Stanford 2019 or more current.  Any decent player can get committed.  There are 321+ D1 schools and many times that if you include all of the other levels.  Ask yourself where the top players (the ones going to the top 10-16 schools) are playing.  Now look at the top 5 or 6 programs.  Where are those players going.  TDS rankings mean nothing.  Big money offers from top schools tell you who the best players are.  My kid was like the 24th ranked player in SoCal in her graduating class but has done more than everyone above her including two on her team that aren’t starters whereas she has started every game and been with the first XI on her team since the first summer practice prior to her freshman year.  The best players often fly under the radar because good teams can hide a player’s deficiencies that get exposed in college.


All I'm saying is that kids in the younger age groups that are currently good flocked to GDA in SoCal.  Not saying that they should have, I'm just saying that it happened.  And it did.  That wasn't the case for the older age groups.

Aren't there several that have committed to UCLA that played GDA - Beach, Cedar Stars, Under Soccer Alliance, California Thorns, Tophat, Blues (non-Bakers).  When you say, my "player’s team only has one GDA player regardless of year committed," what are you referring to?

For reference, here are three UCLA commits: http://njsa.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=3938600&player=265898209
http://unsa.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=3952500&player=271127849
http://scbs.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=3948460&player=265482218


----------



## shales1002

Soccerfan2 said:


> Not what I said and nobody knows that, US Soccer included.
> I’m saying I don’t see evidence of US Soccer favoring GDA players over ECNL players.


https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/u15-gnt-roster-for-concacaf-championship_aid44433

FYI: 
*Additional Notes:*


All but one of the players on the U.S. roster played in the recently completed first season of the U.S. Soccer Development Academy.


----------



## MarkM

shales1002 said:


> https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/u15-gnt-roster-for-concacaf-championship_aid44433
> 
> FYI:
> *Additional Notes:*
> 
> 
> All but one of the players on the U.S. roster played in the recently completed first season of the U.S. Soccer Development Academy.


See, like I said, in the younger age group a majority of the talent flocked to DA.    Just kidding Shales.


----------



## shales1002

MarkM said:


> See, like I said, in the younger age group a majority of the talent flocked to DA.    Just kidding Shales.


 I was ready to clap back , it’s all good.  I’m not the federation. It’s just press release telling you what they are doing.


----------



## Toepoke

MarkM said:


> All I'm saying is that kids in the younger age groups that are currently good flocked to GDA in SoCal.  Not saying that they should have, I'm just saying that it happened.  And it did.  That wasn't the case for the older age groups


That's probably more to do with parents of youngers believing GDA is the best path to a YNT instead of just being an elite player. Olders and their parents are usually more aware of their talents and stop chasing the golden carrot.


----------



## Toepoke

Simisoccerfan said:


> I am a supporter but no I did  not check the remainder of your results.  Since GDA has only been in place for one year and almost all of the U20 team had played ECNL I am not sure how you can say this one loss is some sort of statement for the DA.  Certainly some may say it says something about the whole of US Soccer  but I would wait till more games are played.


I didn't blame the loss on GDA. You and several others are so quick to defend all that is GDA. Today's U20 loss had nothing to do with GDA or ECNL. If over the years you have truly been following the women's game at the youth and national team levels you would know that we are no longer the Kraken on the international stage. Watching today's game made that crystal clear. Countries that were years behind us in the support and advancement of women's soccer are now competing with and beating us. The blame is placed directly at the front door of the federation. 

Instead of fixing the problem, the federation has decided to create a national league which enabled DA clubs to suck hundreds of thousands of dollars from parents across the country. GDA should be for elite players only. Period! And all the GDA apologists who keep saying that's its only year one really don't understand the impact nationwide of the top clubs (who have a history of developing YNT and NT players) who have decided not to continue after only 1 year of DA competition.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

The impact was it was hitting their expenses too hard.  Everything is always about money.


----------



## timmyh

megnation said:


> 17 of the 21 players just finished either their Freshman or Sophomore year in College..... Basically 17 of them were not around for GDA..
> 
> https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2018/08/03/19/22/20180803-preview-u20wnt-fifa-u20-womens-world-cup-france-2018


This. The U20s are a referendum on ECNL, not DA.  The fact that the rest of the world's has just about competent closed the gap in the US despite the advantages of country provide woman athletes screams for exactly why DA (or something new and better) is needed if we want to produce better players. 
ECNL as a gaming league that consolidates top teams for the primary purpose of helping colleges identify potential recruits has been wildly successful. However, ECNL as an environment and tool that maximizes player development is an utter failure. If course, that isn't what it is designed to be, so that isn't a indictment. But it is the exact reason why US Soccer decided something different is required.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

timmyh said:


> This. The U20s are a referendum on ECNL, not DA.  The fact that the rest of the world's has just about competent closed the gap in the US despite the advantages of country provide woman athletes screams for exactly why DA (or something new and better) is needed if we want to produce better players.
> ECNL as a gaming league that consolidates top teams for the primary purpose of helping colleges identify potential recruits has been wildly successful. However, ECNL as an environment and tool that maximizes player development is an utter failure. If course, that isn't what it is designed to be, so that isn't a indictment. But it is the exact reason why US Soccer decided something different is required.


Time will tell, but I think this no high school policy is hurting the DA more than they believe. Boys don't really care but young ladies want to play with their friends.


----------



## SoccerMom05

Sheriff Joe said:


> Time will tell, but I think this no high school policy is hurting the DA more than they believe. Boys don't really care but young ladies want to play with their friends.


We were contacted by a DA coach as they were interested in my 12 yr DD. I showed her the business card they gave me after watching her at Nationals and she laughed and said "I want to play high school and stay with my team". That ended it there


----------



## Sheriff Joe

SoccerMom05 said:


> We were contacted by a DA coach as they were interested in my 12 yr DD. I showed her the business card they gave me after watching her at Nationals and she laughed and said "I want to play high school and stay with my team". That ended it there


As bad as my daughter's high school team is, it keeps her happy and playing, it is not rare for these teen girls to quit all together.


----------



## SoccerMom05

Sheriff Joe said:


> As bad as my daughter's high school team is, it keeps her happy and playing, it is not rare for these teen girls to quit all together.


Agreed and best memorable years were high school


----------



## ToonArmy

I know of and heard of many girls that have opted out of playing for High School long before DA existed for girls. It's a personal choice and your not right or wrong or smart or stupid for choosing one or the other every individuals circumstances are different.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

ToonArmy said:


> It's a personal choice and your not right or wrong or smart or stupid for choosing one or the other every individuals circumstances are different.


You obviously have not met my daughter.


----------



## Soccer43

timmyh said:


> This. The U20s are a referendum on ECNL, not DA.  The fact that the rest of the world's has just about competent closed the gap in the US despite the advantages of country provide woman athletes screams for exactly why DA (or something new and better) is needed if we want to produce better players.


It isn't the DA that is needed and the U20's is not a referendum on ECNL.   It is a referendum on the selection process and the coaches that are making the choices.  The announcers made numerous comments during the game about what is missing.  Go back and listen to what they said.


----------



## Desert Hound

Soccer43 said:


> It isn't the DA that is needed and the U20's is not a referendum on ECNL.   It is a referendum on the selection process and the coaches that are making the choices.  The announcers made numerous comments during the game about what is missing.  Go back and listen to what they said.


For someone who didn't watch and doesn't have the time to go watch it, what were the announcers saying that is missing?


----------



## Soccer43

I don't remember the exact words but it was about the players not combining and working together and that they were playing independently on the field.  One of the comments was they expected more integrated plays with all the camps they have had since January


----------



## Soccer43

This was an interesting assessment of the game:

https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2018/8/6/17657402/usa-falls-1-0-japan-group-opener-u20-womens-world-cup


----------



## LASTMAN14

Soccer43 said:


> This was an interesting assessment of the game:
> 
> https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2018/8/6/17657402/usa-falls-1-0-japan-group-opener-u20-womens-world-cup


Mentioned this in another post about a year ago but saw the U20’s play Japan in a friendly at Stub Hub. This report sounds quite close to that game. Japan dominated play with creativity, constant movement off the ball, around the ball, and on defense.


----------



## Kicker4Life

let’s not take anything away from the defending World Champs here.


----------



## ToonArmy

timbuck said:


> Bit of a topic shift-  but with the 05 Slammers team that made it to Hawaii and just won Surf Cup pretty much owning So Cal and most others over the past 2 years-  Have they considered playing up a year?
> Or having some players play up? (Maybe they already have/do).
> With Slammers going all in with ECNL- does this team lose a game over the next 12 months?


No they don't lose a game unless Heat can pull off another upset like they did in Vegas cup but Slammers have recently beat Heat in Regionals and Surf cup. I don't see any other competitive match for them in ECNL. Maybe they should play up


----------



## timbuck

ToonArmy said:


> No they don't lose a game unless Heat can pull off another upset like they did in Vegas cup but Slammers have recently beat Heat in Regionals and Surf cup. I don't see any other competitive match for them in ECNL. Maybe they should play up


This data is from Youth Soccer Rankings.  Far West Regional record is not listed there.  Might be a few other things missing or incorrect.  But damn impressive!
Since the start of the Fall SCDSL season last year:
34 wins
2 ties
1 loss
139 Goals Scored
15 Goals allowed
23 of their wins were by 3 goals or greater
In 2017, under their prior club name they played up a year at Vegas Cup and won the 2nd flight.

My daughter has a few friends on the team.  I've never watched them play.  What makes them so dominant?  They don't let in many goals - is their defense/gk that strong?  They score a lot of goals-  is their attack that strong?


----------



## Dubs

U15s lost today (2-0) vs Portugal in the U15 Concacaf tourney.  17 of the 18 on the roster are from DA.  Only one ECNL.  As long as we have this kind of bias, our national teams are in trouble.  Not saying the girls aren't talented on the roster, but are we really getting the best?  I'm not sure with this model.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Dubs said:


> U15s lost today (2-0) vs Portugal in the U15 Concacaf tourney.  17 of the 18 on the roster are from DA.  Only one ECNL.  As long as we have this kind of bias, our national teams are in trouble.  Not saying the girls aren't talented on the roster, but are we really getting the best?  I'm not sure with this model.


Egos.


----------



## timbuck

I find it hard to 100% blame DA for losses.  Aren't the people that are coaching the DA teams the same people that were coaching ECNL 18 months ago?
And if our current US Womens National Team (Senior team and U23/20) are struggling because the rest of the world has caught up and is playing a more technical game than we are-  Isn't ECNL partially to blame for that? ECNL was the "best league" around for the past 8 years, right?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Dubs said:


> U15s lost today (2-0) vs Portugal in the U15 Concacaf tourney.  17 of the 18 on the roster are from DA.  Only one ECNL.  As long as we have this kind of bias, our national teams are in trouble.  Not saying the girls aren't talented on the roster, but are we really getting the best?  I'm not sure with this model.


The US team has many 2004's and 2005's while most teams are consistent mostly of 2003's.  Also I heard they lost on two pks.  Pretty difficult to draw any conclusions with just one game lost.


----------



## Dubs

Simisoccerfan said:


> The US team has many 2004's and 2005's while most teams are consistent mostly of 2003's.  Also I heard they lost on two pks.  Pretty difficult to draw any conclusions with just one game lost.


Honestly, I'm not trying to make a big deal of the loss.., but it is a sympton of a larger problem which is selectivty based on what league you play in.  This you cannot deny.  I'm not blaming the league itself but I am blaming the folks running it and making decisions based on ego as Sheriff Joe mentions above.


----------



## Dubs

Dubs said:


> U15s lost today (2-0) vs Portugal in the U15 Concacaf tourney.  17 of the 18 on the roster are from DA.  Only one ECNL.  As long as we have this kind of bias, our national teams are in trouble.  Not saying the girls aren't talented on the roster, but are we really getting the best?  I'm not sure with this model.


People how is this dumb?  Look at the numbers... they're not right.  It's biased.  Again, I'm not bagging on the kids that are there, but the selection process is super flawed because of league bias.


----------



## shales1002

timbuck said:


> I find it hard to 100% blame DA for losses.  Aren't the people that are coaching the DA teams the same people that were coaching ECNL 18 months ago?
> And if our current US Womens National Team (Senior team and U23/20) are struggling because the rest of the world has caught up and is playing a more technical game than we are-  Isn't ECNL partially to blame for that? ECNL was the "best league" around for the past 8 years, right?



As @MakeAPlay has said time and time again, if our country is to be successful, you have to pick the best players and best coaches. Until we do that this we will continue to lag behind.


----------



## shales1002

Simisoccerfan said:


> The US team has many 2004's and 2005's while most teams are consistent mostly of 2003's.  Also I heard they lost on two pks.  Pretty difficult to draw any conclusions with just one game lost.


The 04/05 players this year have ONE year GDA. No ECNL. Most of those players play up on 03 teams anyways. Girls are talented, but conclusions can be drawn on this fact alone.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dubs said:


> People how is this dumb?  Look at the numbers... they're not right.  It's biased.  Again, I'm not bagging on the kids that are there, but the selection process is super flawed because of league bias.


When you make statements backed up by facts that fly in the face of people’s ignorance it brings out the haters.  Great post!


----------



## MakeAPlay

timbuck said:


> I find it hard to 100% blame DA for losses.  Aren't the people that are coaching the DA teams the same people that were coaching ECNL 18 months ago?
> And if our current US Womens National Team (Senior team and U23/20) are struggling because the rest of the world has caught up and is playing a more technical game than we are-  Isn't ECNL partially to blame for that? ECNL was the "best league" around for the past 8 years, right?


US Soccer is to blame.  The GDA is just an illustration and symptom of their lunacy.


----------



## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> The US team has many 2004's and 2005's while most teams are consistent mostly of 2003's.


So this incompetence by US Soccer for not taking more 03’s right?  That’s your excuse for the loss, so they f’d up by not taking more 03’s, whose fault is that?


----------



## timbuck

Justafan said:


> So this incompetence by US Soccer for not taking more 03’s right?  That’s your excuse for the loss, so they f’d up by not taking more 03’s, whose fault is that?


I “think” US Soccer cares most about the full senior team. So maybe by sacrificing a loss in a youth national team game, USSF feels that playing younger players gives us a better chance at remaining on top when these players are adults. 

But probably not.  They probably just took players they knew would be loyal to DA or that had a connection with USSF or were willing to give up time at the mall or going on a family vacation to play a silly tournament.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Justafan said:


> So this incompetence by US Soccer for not taking more 03’s right?  That’s your excuse for the loss, so they f’d up by not taking more 03’s, whose fault is that?


Dude it’s just one loss.  Take a chill pill.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

timbuck said:


> I “think” US Soccer cares most about the full senior team. So maybe by sacrificing a loss in a youth national team game, USSF feels that playing younger players gives us a better chance at remaining on top when these players are adults.
> 
> But probably not.  They probably just took players they knew would be loyal to DA or that had a connection with USSF or were willing to give up time at the mall or going on a family vacation to play a silly tournament.


I think it’s silly that you make this into a DA vs ECNL thing.  There are 32 teams in this tournament.  Only one team will win it.


----------



## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> Dude it’s just one loss.  Take a chill pill.


Just calling you out on being so quick to make an excuse.  Your knee-jerk excuse actually put you in a “logical” hole because either what Dubs said is right or US Soccer is incompetent for not taking more 03’s.  

If you would have omitted the “excuse” I would agree with you that one game doesn’t tell the whole story.  In fact I watched most of the 1st half of the Jamaica game and they looked damn good!  Crisp, clean passing, nice midfield play, and very creative in the final 3rd.  They looked 1000x better than the U-20’s.  But again, I only watched one half and it was against Jamaica.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Justafan said:


> Just calling you out on being so quick to make an excuse.  Your knee-jerk excuse actually put you in a “logical” hole because either what Dubs said is right or US Soccer is incompetent for not taking more 03’s.
> 
> If you would have omitted the “excuse” I would agree with you that one game doesn’t tell the whole story.  In fact I watched most of the 1st half of the Jamaica game and they looked damn good!  Crisp, clean passing, nice midfield play, and very creative in the final 3rd.  They looked 1000x better than the U-20’s.  But again, I only watched one half and it was against Jamaica.


That was not an excuse, just sharing some facts that this is a very young team   An excuse would have been saying something like they would have won if they picked the best 03’s.  Or they lost because they picked players loyal to the DA.  Or US Soccer cares more about the senior team.  Or the selection process is flawed.  If I had said any of those statements then I would have been offering excuses.


----------



## Soccer43

It's not about one loss and not about DA vs ECNL.  This loss is just a manifestation of the mistakes that are being made.  US Soccer seems to select individual "superstars" that are not necessarily creative play makers that can perform as a team under intense competition.  Of course the team looked good against Jamaica, it wasn't a very good team so most teams can look good when playing a lesser quality team.

The team is very young but that is most likely because the older U15 team is going to the China tournament next week.   It stills is indicative of US Soccer thinking certain players are the best no matter what age and repeatedly overlook other players to pull up youngers.  Are there no other '03's that deserve an opportunity to prove their value to the system.  There was one superstar in the Portugal game that couldn't seem to figure out how to get into the game and make a contribution.


----------



## MarkM

Dubs said:


> U15s lost today (2-0) vs Portugal in the U15 Concacaf tourney.  17 of the 18 on the roster are from DA.  Only one ECNL.  As long as we have this kind of bias, our national teams are in trouble.  Not saying the girls aren't talented on the roster, but are we really getting the best?  I'm not sure with this model.


I cannot believe how bias that US Soccer is toward SoCal players.  The numbers don't lie.


----------



## LadiesMan217

MarkM said:


> I cannot believe how bias that US Soccer is toward SoCal players.  The numbers don't lie.


I cannot believe anyone expects the US women to win these days now that other countries are building programs. Our training has been driven by clubs  that are popular with the good players and their parents like Slammers and Blues, etc. where development is not a priority and getting all the good players on one team, egos, and winning is most important.


----------



## timmyh

Good article

https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2018/8/1/17640800/is-the-gda-ecnl-war-getting-nastier


----------



## Chris Knight

timbuck said:


> I find it hard to 100% blame DA for losses.  Aren't the people that are coaching the DA teams the same people that were coaching ECNL 18 months ago?
> And if our current US Womens National Team (Senior team and U23/20) are struggling because the rest of the world has caught up and is playing a more technical game than we are-  Isn't ECNL partially to blame for that? ECNL was the "best league" around for the past 8 years, right?



Agreed timbuck --

Not only were the majority of the current club coaches of these U15 WNT kids coaching at the same level for the same clubs in the ECNL just over a year ago, but, even more pertinent to the argument, the majority of the 03 kids were playing in the ECNL and the majority of the 04/05 kids would've been now.  (Not to say that a handful haven't now gone back, but ...) It just happens to be a fact that the majority of the traditionally top performing ECNL clubs went DA prior to last year  ... Thus, the majority of the top talent currently selected for those teams are from DA clubs.  

Easy peasy.


----------



## Soccerfan2

timmyh said:


> Good article
> 
> https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2018/8/1/17640800/is-the-gda-ecnl-war-getting-nastier


Good article. A difference the author neglected to highlight is GDA club oversight by and accountability to US Soccer. A number of posters on this forum think little of US Soccer, but I wonder how many of those criticisms come from actual experience and how many are just grumbling based on uninformed assumptions. I see the oversight as a definite positive so far. I’d like to see ECNL survive just long enough to pressure GDA into relaxing the HS prohibition. After that, I hope it collapses because there are a handful of players sticking to ECNL that I’d like my kid to play against. One national platform is better than two.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerfan2 said:


> Good article. A difference the author neglected to highlight is GDA club oversight by and accountability to US Soccer. A number of posters on this forum think little of US Soccer, but I wonder how many of those criticisms come from actual experience and how many are just grumbling based on uninformed assumptions. I see the oversight as a definite positive so far. I’d like to see ECNL survive just long enough to pressure GDA into relaxing the HS prohibition. After that, I hope it collapses because there are a handful of players sticking to ECNL that I’d like my kid to play against. One national platform is better than two.


Says the uLittle parent....


----------



## Soccerfan2

MakeAPlay said:


> Says the uLittle parent....


Your position is noted MAP, and I do respect your experience. I’ll keep my eyes open.


----------



## Soccer43

Soccerfan2 said:


> Good article. A difference the author neglected to highlight is GDA club oversight by and accountability to US Soccer. A number of posters on this forum think little of US Soccer, but I wonder how many of those criticisms come from actual experience and how many are just grumbling based on uninformed assumptions. I see the oversight as a definite positive so far. I’d like to see ECNL survive just long enough to pressure GDA into relaxing the HS prohibition. After that, I hope it collapses because there are a handful of players sticking to ECNL that I’d like my kid to play against. One national platform is better than two.


The ECNL is not going to collapse.  Pick your team, coach, and league based on what you think is best for your player but don't be confused about US Soccer.


----------



## shales1002

Chris Knight said:


> Agreed timbuck --
> 
> Not only were the majority of the current club coaches of these U15 WNT kids coaching at the same level for the same clubs in the ECNL just over a year ago, but, even more pertinent to the argument, the majority of the 03 kids were playing in the ECNL and the majority of the 04/05 kids would've been now.  (Not to say that a handful haven't now gone back, but ...) It just happens to be a fact that the majority of the traditionally top performing ECNL clubs went DA prior to last year  ... Thus, the majority of the top talent currently selected for those teams are from DA clubs.
> 
> Easy peasy.


Ahhh, I see. When the GDA is successful, it’s because of their platform, wonderful training 9 days a week training , video, the coaches, and so on. 

When they appear unsuccessful it’s because they are being coached by the same ECNL coaches from a year ago. Got it!

The majority of top talent didn’t get selected simply because they play the ECNL game circuit. It’s pretty obvious in everything we are reading about this Concacaf down in Florida. Because of these actions, the excuses are piling on thick, and it’s lightweight comical. There’s a lot of talent out there and it appears, at this point, the Federation cut of its nose to spite its face.


----------



## Lightning Red

8-0 final over El Salvador this morning. They have advanced.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

My kid is not in ECNL or DA, but it seems obvious to me US soccer almost has to pick girls from DA just to save face, if there were just as many players from both leagues on US teams why would anyone choose DA over ECNL?
Kind of reminds me of my son's high school baseball career, he was a good player and the "voluntary" 1200.00 donation that we felt we had to pay if he wanted to play.
Same thing here, if you have dreams to play on a national team you better choose DA.
Bullshit.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Lightning Red said:


> 8-0 final over El Salvador this morning. They have advanced.


What is the value in a game like that?  Doesn’t help against the better footballing countries.  I’m really starting to worry about France and Spain and truthfully England and Netherlands too!


----------



## BigSoccer

The YNT's both men and women will always be DA players moving forward it is their platform to promote their system.  The truth is they pass over or never even look at talented kids from areas where there are no DA teams.  I guess you need to be a parent willing to drive 2 hours round trip if you are outside the area or move you child to that area or chase the dream and uproot your whole family and move to the area.  
US Soccer built this divide let's not kid ourselves.  GDA was done for dollars because ECNL built the working platform.  Instead of working together they figured they could do it on their own.


----------



## vegasguy

BigSoccer said:


> The YNT's both men and women will always be DA players moving forward it is their platform to promote their system.  The truth is they pass over or never even look at talented kids from areas where there are no DA teams.  I guess you need to be a parent willing to drive 2 hours round trip if you are outside the area or move you child to that area or chase the dream and uproot your whole family and move to the area.
> US Soccer built this divide let's not kid ourselves.  GDA was done for dollars because ECNL built the working platform.  Instead of working together they figured they could do it on their own.


I agree about the uprooting or moving for DA.  Vegas has plenty of talent and we lose it to Salt Lake, Seattle, LA and other areas.  It can become a tough choice for a child and family at 13-16yrs of age.   On the girls side, I hope that US Soccer realizes that moving to a monopolistic youth squad (GDA) is a bad move.  I think it is took late to look back on the boys side but I do hope boys ECNL does challenge the current mold.  Just my opinion.


----------



## shales1002

Lightning Red said:


> 8-0 final over El Salvador this morning. They have advanced.


Only IF Panama and Costa Rica lose. They both have 4 points. If they win they they both have 7. They aren’t playing each other either.


----------



## MakeAPlay

I don’t really care what league a kid play in along as they play against consistently good competition, have good/great coaching and get to be a kid.  GDA would be a great idea if US Soccer didn’t get too involved....


----------



## Chris Knight

shales1002 said:


> Ahhh, I see. When the GDA is successful, it’s because of their platform, wonderful training 9 days a week training , video, the coaches, and so on.
> 
> _*When they appear unsuccessful it’s because they are being coached by the same ECNL coaches from a year ago.*_ Got it!
> 
> The majority of top talent didn’t get selected simply because they play the ECNL game circuit. It’s pretty obvious in everything we are reading about this Concacaf down in Florida. Because of these actions, the excuses are piling on thick, and it’s lightweight comical. There’s a lot of talent out there and it appears, at this point, the Federation cut of its nose to spite its face.


_*This*_ is a complete misinterpretation of what I wrote.  

I'm being absolutely sincere here shalesy when I say that is understandable you're a likely a bit perturbed in thinking that your kid wasn't selected to this team due to her being with an ECNL club, which may have lead to you miscontruing my post.  

Given that Hawks, Solar, FC Dallas, SoCal Blues, Slammers, PDA, Real CO, Eclipse, FC Stars, Crossfire, and Surf (clearly the most successful girls clubs over the course of ECNL history) all went GDA prior to last year, any attempt to argue that "the *majority* of top talent didn’t get selected simply because they play the ECNL game circuit" this year, really is futile isn't it?  

Given that a few of the aforementioned clubs have now gone ECNL 'all in', I'd bet you'll see more ECNL kids represented on WNTs going forward.  No doubt the folks at USSF know better how to run the nation's youth program than us rubes wasting our time posting here ... And no doubt they would rather win than roster an inferior GDA player to a superior ECNL player -- silly to assume otherwise really.  

Also -- sheish! ... Massive overreactions from Sherriff and BigS here as well after just one lil' tourney in one lil' age group.  And when was it in your mind that the GDA was "successful"?  Anyone coming on this forum for the first time would be quick to say that this just hasn't happened to this point, wouldn't they ...

Let's lighten up a bit gentlemen ; )


----------



## shales1002

Chris Knight said:


> _*This*_ is a complete misinterpretation of what I wrote.
> 
> I'm being absolutely sincere here shalesy when I say that is understandable you're a likely a bit perturbed in thinking that your kid wasn't selected to this team due to her being with an ECNL club, which may have lead to you miscontruing my post.
> 
> Given that Hawks, Solar, FC Dallas, SoCal Blues, Slammers, PDA, Real CO, Eclipse, FC Stars, Crossfire, and Surf (clearly the most successful girls clubs over the course of ECNL history) all went GDA prior to last year, any attempt to argue that "the *majority* of top talent didn’t get selected simply because they play the ECNL game circuit" this year, really is futile isn't it?
> 
> Given that a few of the aforementioned clubs have now gone ECNL 'all in', I'd bet you'll see more ECNL kids represented on WNTs going forward.  No doubt the folks at USSF know better how to run the nation's youth program than us rubes wasting our time posting here ... And no doubt they would rather win than roster an inferior GDA player to a superior ECNL player -- silly to assume otherwise really.
> 
> Also -- sheish! ... Massive overreactions from Sherriff and BigS here as well after just one lil' tourney in one lil' age group.  And when was it in your mind that the GDA was "successful"?  Anyone coming on this forum for the first time would be quick to say that this just hasn't happened to this point, wouldn't they ...
> 
> Let's lighten up a bit gentlemen ; )



This honestly has nothing to do with my DD or me being upset. Our(my) goal has always been a top college preferably one that has blue and gold as their school colors. The facts aka press releases speak for themselves.  We are seeing the selections for the U20's (1/4 of the roster was GDA) and it was mentioned.  The U15's they stated as much in the VERY first bullet point 17/18.  It's silly for *YOU* to think otherwise.  It's their prerogative to do so.  Perhaps these actions will sway Little Suzie next time to choose GDA. What they failed to realize is Little Suzie  doesn't have very much choice when it comes to the pocketbook of their parents or their geography.

As for the success of GDA, I based my response on those of others. Many have deemed that they have had a successful year. Kudos to them! It's about doing what's best for their DD.  To each its own.

If the USSF doesn't take the best players AND coaches, we will not be able to compete. Period! I don't care if the player is in AYSO, if they are the best they deserve to be there.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Chris Knight said:


> _*This*_ is a complete misinterpretation of what I wrote.
> 
> I'm being absolutely sincere here shalesy when I say that is understandable you're a likely a bit perturbed in thinking that your kid wasn't selected to this team due to her being with an ECNL club, which may have lead to you miscontruing my post.
> 
> Given that Hawks, Solar, FC Dallas, SoCal Blues, Slammers, PDA, Real CO, Eclipse, FC Stars, Crossfire, and Surf (clearly the most successful girls clubs over the course of ECNL history) all went GDA prior to last year, any attempt to argue that "the *majority* of top talent didn’t get selected simply because they play the ECNL game circuit" this year, really is futile isn't it?
> 
> Given that a few of the aforementioned clubs have now gone ECNL 'all in', I'd bet you'll see more ECNL kids represented on WNTs going forward.  No doubt the folks at USSF know better how to run the nation's youth program than us rubes wasting our time posting here ... And no doubt they would rather win than roster an inferior GDA player to a superior ECNL player -- silly to assume otherwise really.
> 
> Also -- sheish! ... Massive overreactions from Sherriff and BigS here as well after just one lil' tourney in one lil' age group.  And when was it in your mind that the GDA was "successful"?  Anyone coming on this forum for the first time would be quick to say that this just hasn't happened to this point, wouldn't they ...
> 
> Let's lighten up a bit gentlemen ; )


Massive overreaction? Too funny, I am just contributing to the conversation.
I will try to tone it down, no promises.


----------



## Toepoke

shales1002 said:


> This honestly has nothing to do with my DD or me being upset. Our(my) goal has always been a top college preferably one that has blue and gold as their school colors. The facts aka press releases speak for themselves.  We are seeing the selections for the U20's (1/4 of the roster was GDA) and it was mentioned.  The U15's they stated as much in the VERY first bullet point 17/18.  It's silly for *YOU* to think otherwise.  It's their prerogative to do so.  Perhaps these actions will sway Little Suzie next time to choose GDA. What they failed to realize is Little Suzie  doesn't have very much choice when it comes to the pocketbook of their parents or their geography.
> 
> As for the success of GDA, I based my response on those of others. Many have deemed that they have had a successful year. Kudos to them! It's about doing what's best for their DD.  To each its own.
> 
> *If the USSF doesn't take the best players AND coaches, we will not be able to compete. Period! I don't care if the player is in AYSO, if they are the best they deserve to be there*.


Dilly Dilly


----------



## BigSoccer

Not sure I said something inflammatory or crazy.  I am saying if I choose not to drive two hours round trip 5 days a week for my child to train on a DA or GDA squad and thus this eliminates my child from the opportunity to play on a youth national squad is seems like a closed door program.  Now neither of my kids or at that level so it truly doesn't make a difference but for others it might.


----------



## Chris Knight

Could agree more with this shalesy ... "If the USSF doesn't take the best players AND coaches, we will not be able to compete. Period!"

... but it'd be swell if you could let us know how you deem my last post as "Creative" --

On another note, I thought yours was already committed to Ucklaw?  And for what it's worth Sir, we've played against both out there now + your kid over the past year or so ... I like yours quite a bit more than the others.


----------



## Toepoke

Chris Knight said:


> .....
> Given that a few of the aforementioned clubs have now gone ECNL 'all in', I'd bet you'll see more ECNL kids represented on WNTs going forward.  No doubt the folks at USSF know better how to run the nation's youth program than us rubes wasting our time posting here ... *And no doubt they would rather win than roster an inferior GDA player to a superior ECNL player* -- silly to assume otherwise really.


I truly hope you're right. If next years teams are GDA heavy and do not include girls from the clubs that left GDA and went all-in ECNL, then we will know that playing GDA does have its advantages in the eyes of USSF.


----------



## shales1002

Chris Knight said:


> Could agree more with this shalesy ... "If the USSF doesn't take the best players AND coaches, we will not be able to compete. Period!"
> 
> ... but it'd be swell if you could let us know how you deem my last post as "Creative" --
> 
> On another note, I thought yours was already committed to Ucklaw?  And for what it's worth Sir, we've played against both out there now + your kid over the past year or so ... I like yours quite a bit more than the others.



It was creative because, you are seeing this issue through rose colored lenses. I didn't disagree or dislike, so I guess that was the next best option.  I wasn't overreacting just responding.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

shales1002 said:


> It was creative because, you are seeing this issue through rose colored lenses. I didn't disagree or dislike, so I guess that was the next best option.  I wasn't overreacting just responding.


I think we might have a snowflake on our hands.


----------



## Soccerfan2

BigSoccer said:


> Not sure I said something inflammatory or crazy.  I am saying if I choose not to drive two hours round trip 5 days a week for my child to train on a DA or GDA squad and thus this eliminates my child from the opportunity to play on a youth national squad is seems like a closed door program.  Now neither of my kids or at that level so it truly doesn't make a difference but for others it might.


One problem is perpetuating this nonsense. Your kid is not at that level, and you haven’t seen anything up close, yet you have decided you know how it works. GDA is not the only place US Soccer is looking. Not playing GDA is not going to eliminate your child from national team opportunity. US Soccer looks at ECNL, NTC, they look and co-train with ODP. PDP recommends to NTC. If your kid is that good, everybody knows who they are anyway. Yes, US soccer openly prefers that national team potentials play in GDA. Yes, it will be self fulfilling and validating for US Soccer if the national players come from GDA. But if there’s a ringer playing anywhere, they’ll be taking them! Just get closer and when you know the player pool, you’ll see. Now GDA players do get additional visibility because the US soccer TA’s are at their practices and games. Extra visibility alone is a bad reason to uproot your life to join GDA. But if your kid is a younger where most top players have already gone GDA, has the aspiration of being a top player, and there’s a good GDA program nearby, why wouldn’t you go there vs ECNL (except HS - I think that’s a valid barrier)? Unless of course US Soccer is SO bad, in which case you would never want your child playing on the national team anyway, right?  Gotta steer clear from that too same as GDA, right?


----------



## MarkM

Two questions/thoughts a little off topic:

(1) At what point is it fair for US Soccer to exclude kids on tournament teams that are not following their program?  There is a range of things from big to small.  For example, my kid hates Nike cleats; they hurt her feet.  Is it unfair that US Soccer won't let her participate unless she wears Nike cleats?  Or what if my kid doesn't want to skip school for another training camp.  Is it OK if US Soccer leaves her off the next travel team because she didn't show up to the previous camp?   Are these fair reasons to exclude my kid, but it's unfair to exclude my kid when she wants to play high school soccer rather than play more club games?  I'm not trying to create a war about this issue.  I'm just of the opinion that it is often much more complicated than picking the most talented kid at that moment.  Buying into the program matters at some level.  

(2) If and when GDA collapses, does anyone have concern that the "elite" soccer landscape is going to be even worse?  ECNL added a ton of weak clubs when GDA was created and it had to give several good clubs two teams to convince them to go all "in."  The few remaining dual GDA/ECNL will obviously go back full in on ECNL.  But there are ton of really good clubs outside of ECNL now.  What will happen to the Surf teams, Eagles, San Jose Quakes, NYFC, California Thorns, Legends, Beach, etc.  Will ECNL really keep clubs like FC Nova and Del Mar Sharks, but exclude these other clubs?  Maybe ECNL becomes enormous and adds everyone?  Or do these other teams create a separate league even if US Soccer is not in control?  I'm hoping for a smooth transition if this thing crashes and burns soon.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Soccerfan2 said:


> One problem is perpetuating this nonsense. Your kid is not at that level, and you haven’t seen anything up close, yet you have decided you know how it works. GDA is not the only place US Soccer is looking. Not playing GDA is not going to eliminate your child from national team opportunity. US Soccer looks at ECNL, NTC, they look and co-train with ODP. PDP recommends to NTC. If your kid is that good, everybody knows who they are anyway. Yes, US soccer openly prefers that national team potentials play in GDA. Yes, it will be self fulfilling and validating for US Soccer if the national players come from GDA. But if there’s a ringer playing anywhere, they’ll be taking them! Just get closer and when you know the player pool, you’ll see. Now GDA players do get additional visibility because the US soccer TA’s are at their practices and games. Extra visibility alone is a bad reason to uproot your life to join GDA. But if your kid is a younger where most top players have already gone GDA, has the aspiration of being a top player, and there’s a good GDA program nearby, why wouldn’t you go there vs ECNL (except HS - I think that’s a valid barrier)? Unless of course US Soccer is SO bad, in which case you would never want your child playing on the national team anyway, right?  Gotta steer clear from that too same as GDA, right?


Do we still need ODP?


----------



## davin

Soccerfan2 said:


> But if your kid is a younger where most top players have already gone GDA, has the aspiration of being a top player, and there’s a good GDA program nearby, why wouldn’t you go there vs ECNL (except HS - I think that’s a valid barrier)? right?


On what are you basing your opinion on that "most of the top players already have gone GDA"? At the Surf cup U14 age group, there was only 1 division where they put both ECNL and GDA teams, and the 2 ECNL teams both made it to the finals. In the Surf cup U13 top division, a team from an ECNL club beat a team from a GDA club to win the championship. At Silverlakes, in the two youngest age groups(U14 and U15), the ECNL teams outperfomed GDA teams head to head. If "most top players" are in GDA, shouldn't they be outperforming ECNL head to head by a landslide?


----------



## timbuck

MarkM said:


> Two questions/thoughts a little off topic:
> 
> (1) At what point is it fair for US Soccer to exclude kids on tournament teams that are not following their program?  There is a range of things from big to small.  For example, my kid hates Nike cleats; they hurt her feet.  Is it unfair that US Soccer won't let her participate unless she wears Nike cleats?  Or what if my kid doesn't want to skip school for another training camp.  Is it OK if US Soccer leaves her off the next travel team because she didn't show up to the previous camp?   Are these fair reasons to exclude my kid, but it's unfair to exclude my kid when she wants to play high school soccer rather than play more club games?  I'm not trying to create a war about this issue.  I'm just of the opinion that it is often much more complicated than picking the most talented kid at that moment.  Buying into the program matters at some level.
> 
> (2) If and when GDA collapses, does anyone have concern that the "elite" soccer landscape is going to be even worse?  ECNL added a ton of weak clubs when GDA was created and it had to give several good clubs two teams to convince them to go all "in."  The few remaining dual GDA/ECNL will obviously go back full in on ECNL.  But there are ton of really good clubs outside of ECNL now.  What will happen to the Surf teams, Eagles, San Jose Quakes, NYFC, California Thorns, Legends, Beach, etc.  Will ECNL really keep clubs like FC Nova and Del Mar Sharks, but exclude these other clubs?  Maybe ECNL becomes enormous and adds everyone?  Or do these other teams create a separate league even if US Soccer is not in control?  I'm hoping for a smooth transition if this thing crashes and burns soon.


Maybe then ECNL will have to create divisions like Discovery, Champions and Europa


----------



## Soccerfan2

davin said:


> On what are you basing your opinion on that "most of the top players already have gone GDA"? At the Surf cup U14 age group, there was only 1 division where they put both ECNL and GDA teams, and the 2 ECNL teams both made it to the finals. In the Surf cup U13 top division, a team from an ECNL club beat a team from a GDA club to win the championship. At Silverlakes, in the two youngest age groups(U14 and U15), the ECNL teams outperfomed GDA teams head to head. If "most top players" are in GDA, shouldn't they be outperforming ECNL head to head by a landslide?


Your data is a little off.
In U14 at Surf there was only one ECNL team that played DA teams (Heat) and yes they made the final (but lost). That is a very good team with a dominant player and at least one of their pool play games was watched by national team staff (I assume they were not only looking at the GDA players). That club will be going to DA. I am confident that no other ECNL clubs besides Heat in that age group would have made a final in the top GDA bracket. The GDA teams in the white bracket were of mixed ability and several stronger ECNL teams could compete in there.
Wasn’t at Silverlakes and haven’t even looked at the results so I can’t speak to that.
There is no GDA U13, so that point is mute until next year when players actually decide between GDA and ECNL. San Juan 06 is very strong in their age group, though.
Your question is an oversimplification. Not every GDA team is strong. In my daughters age group in all of California my view that most of the top players are in GDA is based on my knowledge of the individual players and what clubs they play at.


----------



## futboldad1

Soccerfan2 said:


> Your data is a little off.
> In U14 at Surf there was only one ECNL team that played DA teams (Heat) and yes they made the final (but lost). That is a very good team with a dominant player and at least one of their pool play games was watched by national team staff (I assume they were not only looking at the GDA players). That club will be going to DA. I am confident that no other ECNL clubs besides Heat in that age group would have made a final in the top GDA bracket. .


It is your data that is off. Slammers and Heat are both ECNL. And the same Slammers team would've almost certainly won the top flight of the U14 USSDA bracket so your confidence is misplaced.


----------



## Soccerfan2

futboldad1 said:


> It is your data that is off. Slammers and Heat are both ECNL. And the same Slammers team would've almost certainly won the top flight of the U14 USSDA bracket so your confidence is misplaced.


I said only Heat played against GDA teams at Surf in U14.  No team named Slammers did. 05 ECNL Slammers that did play didn’t play DA teams, and didn’t do well. What part of my data is inaccurate?  

If you’re arguing that the girls that have historically played with Slammers are strong, I agree. Doesn’t change my view that most of the top U14 players are in DA though.


----------



## davin

Soccerfan2 said:


> I said only Heat played against GDA teams at Surf in U14.  No team named Slammers did. 05 ECNL Slammers that did play didn’t play DA teams, and didn’t do well. What part of my data is inaccurate?
> 
> If you’re arguing that the girls that have historically played with Slammers are strong, I agree. Doesn’t change my view that most of the top U14 players are in DA though.


LAFC = Slammers. Man, just quit already.


----------



## Soccerfan2

lol ya I got it earlier.


----------



## ToonArmy

It has been said over and over on here that the lafc slammers 05s have no competition other than Heat in ECNL SW and might be better off playing up as a team or individuals playing up


----------



## futboldad1

davin said:


> On what are you basing your opinion on that "most of the top players already have gone GDA"? At the Surf cup U14 age group, there was only 1 division where they put both ECNL and GDA teams, and the 2 ECNL teams both made it to the finals. In the Surf cup U13 top division, a team from an ECNL club beat a team from a GDA club to win the championship. At Silverlakes, in the two youngest age groups(U14 and U15), the ECNL teams outperfomed GDA teams head to head. If "most top players" are in GDA, shouldn't they be outperforming ECNL head to head by a landslide?


Exactly this. Plus at U18 the only non GDA team in the USSDA bracket won the thing winning all four games vs Surf, Blues, Real and Galaxy. But enough with those pesky facts.....


----------



## BigSoccer

Soccerfan2 said:


> One problem is perpetuating this nonsense. Your kid is not at that level, and you haven’t seen anything up close, yet you have decided you know how it works. GDA is not the only place US Soccer is looking. Not playing GDA is not going to eliminate your child from national team opportunity. US Soccer looks at ECNL, NTC, they look and co-train with ODP. PDP recommends to NTC. If your kid is that good, everybody knows who they are anyway. Yes, US soccer openly prefers that national team potentials play in GDA. Yes, it will be self fulfilling and validating for US Soccer if the national players come from GDA. But if there’s a ringer playing anywhere, they’ll be taking them! Just get closer and when you know the player pool, you’ll see. Now GDA players do get additional visibility because the US soccer TA’s are at their practices and games. Extra visibility alone is a bad reason to uproot your life to join GDA. But if your kid is a younger where most top players have already gone GDA, has the aspiration of being a top player, and there’s a good GDA program nearby, why wouldn’t you go there vs ECNL (except HS - I think that’s a valid barrier)? Unless of course US Soccer is SO bad, in which case you would never want your child playing on the national team anyway, right?  Gotta steer clear from that too same as GDA, right?


Well just because my children are not in DA please dont assume they are not or are something.  I have had a child train and be invited to an Academy but we are not willing to sacrifice one players dreams for another.  My other child loves soccer as well and the drive for one eliminates play for another .  So my child has had other camps but is not national team quality.  I know this and that is fine.  My comment is more to GDA and DA limiting the opportunity.  Maybe and this is a long shot maybe if my child had the increased exposure they maybe (again lingshot) NT quality.  Most likely not as the numbers dont add up.  My point is that there are kids in our area that also can not sacrifice time and money to go to the nearest DA oe GDA and this are excluded from exposures.  ODP and NTC are a pool of very good players and often times coaches favorites and exclude very good players as well.  Please dont turn a blind eye to politics . We have all seen odp players at camps less deserving then others again in a layman's view.  Again my soccer child sunglasses know where they stand and do not read rosy National Team Red but there are GDA DA players less talented then player outside of areas..  the scope needs to be broadened not shrunk is the main point here.


----------



## Soccerfan2

BigSoccer said:


> Well just because my children are not in DA please dont assume they are not or are something.  I have had a child train and be invited to an Academy but we are not willing to sacrifice one players dreams for another.  My other child loves soccer as well and the drive for one eliminates play for another .  So my child has had other camps but is not national team quality.  I know this and that is fine.  My comment is more to GDA and DA limiting the opportunity.  Maybe and this is a long shot maybe if my child had the increased exposure they maybe (again lingshot) NT quality.  Most likely not as the numbers dont add up.  My point is that there are kids in our area that also can not sacrifice time and money to go to the nearest DA oe GDA and this are excluded from exposures.  ODP and NTC are a pool of very good players and often times coaches favorites and exclude very good players as well.  Please dont turn a blind eye to politics . We have all seen odp players at camps less deserving then others again in a layman's view.  Again my soccer child sunglasses know where they stand and do not read rosy National Team Red but there are GDA DA players less talented then player outside of areas..  the scope needs to be broadened not shrunk is the main point here.


Politics exist anywhere humanity exists. Always will. However I more frequently hear parents of kids who have no business being anywhere complain of politics than I see actual politics. We all see things a bit differently. Sounds like you have a very good reason for not picking DA. Family balance is important!  I have a die hard kid who may or may not have a real shot at the national pool - but she’s putting everything she has into it. Never know if she’ll even like soccer in two more years but as long as she’s all in I will be there to support it. I just wish for all the kids like her to get to play each other. In DA ideally, since that’s where she’s at


----------



## BigSoccer

Soccerfan2 said:


> Politics exist anywhere humanity exists. Always will. However I more frequently hear parents of kids who have no business being anywhere complain of politics than I see actual politics. We all see things a bit differently. Sounds like you have a very good reason for not picking DA. Family balance is important!  I have a die hard kid who may or may not have a real shot at the national pool - but she’s putting everything she has into it. Never know if she’ll even like soccer in two more years but as long as she’s all in I will be there to support it. I just wish for all the kids like her to get to play each other. In DA ideally, since that’s where she’s at



If your round trip was 2hrs one way would you feel the same.  I am just asking as we all have to make adulting decisions.


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## Soccerfan2

Nope!  I would definitely not drive 4 hrs per day to training multiple times per week. I would play my kid on the best team I could actually get to and keep her in ODP and PDP. 

But, in our case DA is local and ECNL is the drive.


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## BigSoccer

Then you are blessed and I hope you now realize my point.


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## Soccerfan2

Yes, we are very grateful to have reasonably close options. For those like you that don’t, ignore the doomsday negativity and excuses about it being a closed system and just grind. I for sure agree w MAP that the cream always rises to the top. If it gets to the point where your kid is unquestionable national team
material and exposure is the real problem, then you get creative.


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## vegasguy

I am sure many of us have had soccer decisions that are not easy.  Enjoy watch and have fun  it is over quickly.


----------



## davin

Soccerfan2 said:


> Your data is a little off.
> In U14 at Surf there was only one ECNL team that played DA teams (Heat) and yes they made the final (but lost). That is a very good team with a dominant player and at least one of their pool play games was watched by national team staff (I assume they were not only looking at the GDA players). That club will be going to DA. I am confident that no other ECNL clubs besides Heat in that age group would have made a final in the top GDA bracket. The GDA teams in the white bracket were of mixed ability and several stronger ECNL teams could compete in there.
> Wasn’t at Silverlakes and haven’t even looked at the results so I can’t speak to that.
> There is no GDA U13, so that point is mute until next year when players actually decide between GDA and ECNL. San Juan 06 is very strong in their age group, though.
> Your question is an oversimplification. Not every GDA team is strong. In my daughters age group in all of California my view that most of the top players are in GDA is based on my knowledge of the individual players and what clubs they play at.


As mentioned, the team that beat Heat in the final was LAFC which will be one of the Slammers ECNL teams this season. The only real data points we have about the relative strengths of GDA teams vs. ECNL teams is the head to head matchups  in these pre-season tournaments, which the ECNL got the better of in both Surf and Silverlakes at the youngest ECNL/GDA agegroups. You seem to be making up a lot of excuses for the lack of results in GDA's favor, and your "belief" that "most the top players" are in GDA doesn't pass the smell test. The results say otherwise.


----------



## Lightning Red

shales1002 said:


> Only IF Panama and Costa Rica lose. They both have 4 points. If they win they they both have 7. They aren’t playing each other either.


They advanced. FYI.


----------



## davin

Soccerfan2 said:


> There is no GDA U13, so that point is mute until next year when players actually decide between GDA and ECNL. San Juan 06 is very strong in their age group, though.


And by the way, 3 out of the 4 semifinalists in the top division at Surf Cup U13 were ECNL with only 1 GDA semifinalist, and the eventual champion was ECNL. The point is neither moot or "mute".


----------



## Soccerfan2

davin said:


> As mentioned, the team that beat Heat in the final was LAFC which will be one of the Slammers ECNL teams this season. The only real data points we have about the relative strengths of GDA teams vs. ECNL teams is the head to head matchups  in these pre-season tournaments, which the ECNL got the better of in both Surf and Silverlakes at the youngest ECNL/GDA agegroups. You seem to be making up a lot of excuses for the lack of results in GDA's favor, and your "belief" that "most the top players" are in GDA doesn't pass the smell test. The results say otherwise.


Yes, Heat and LAFC made the U14 finals in the 2nd DA division at Surf. The U13 teams are not GDA yet.  
I have zero interest in making excuses for anything. I just share what I see in case it’s useful to someone else. I don’t mind the claim about where the top players are being challenged. If you think your data conclusively shows that more top players are ECNL at U14, have at it. I have my view, I’m happy with our choice so far, my kid gets to play in two GDA age groups and NTC against a lot of top players, and there are quite a few other benefits that haven’t even come up in discussion. And of course there are some drawbacks, the biggest of which is the good players are split between two systems and that hurts everyone. I like to be a positive voice for those considering GDA who are not attached to the ECNL vs GDA war and the US Soccer hating as there are so many on here against GDA. Good luck to all the hard working girls on all the teams this season!


----------



## davin

Soccerfan2 said:


> Yes, Heat and LAFC made the U14 finals in the 2nd DA division at Surf. The U13 teams are not GDA yet.
> I have zero interest in making excuses for anything. I just share what I see in case it’s useful to someone else. I don’t mind the claim about where the top players are being challenged. If you think your data conclusively shows that more top players are ECNL at U14, have at it. I have my view, I’m happy with our choice so far, my kid gets to play in two GDA age groups and NTC against a lot of top players, and there are quite a few other benefits that haven’t even come up in discussion. And of course there are some drawbacks, the biggest of which is the good players are split between two systems and that hurts everyone. I like to be a positive voice for those considering GDA who are not attached to the ECNL vs GDA war and the US Soccer hating as there are so many on here against GDA. Good luck to all the hard working girls on all the teams this season!


I'm not saying that definitively more top players are in ECNL than in GDA. What I'm trying to point out is that the data doesn't support your earlier claim that most of the top players in the younger age groups are in GDA.

And while we're at it, here's a couple of other data points for you. According to this RPI calculation, the #6(Legends) and #8(Seattle Reign) 2004 teams were at Silverlakes two weekend ago and both played 3 games against ECNL teams. http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/2017-2018-gda-club-standings.4188/page-8#post-204599

Legends 2004 DA was 1-1-1 against ECNL teams.
Reign 2004 DA was 0-2-1 against ECNL teams.

These two top 10 ranked DA teams combined for a grand total of  ONE win in 6 games versus ECNL. Let that sink in.


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## shales1002

\


Lightning Red said:


> They advanced. FYI.


 Because Panama lost. Glad they advanced.


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## Soccer43

It is not a solid situation to advance only because another team lost a match.  I would prefer a situation of being more in charge of their own desitiny


----------



## Soccer43

Soccerfan2 said:


> I like to be a positive voice for those considering GDA who are not attached to the ECNL vs GDA war and the US Soccer hating as there are so many on here against GDA.


There is reason why there are so many "haters" about the GDA.  Parents need to have truthful and accurate information not just one's personal experience so they can make an informed decision about what is best for their player.


----------



## MarkM

Soccer43 said:


> There is reason why there are so many "haters" about the GDA.  Parents need to have truthful and accurate information not just one's personal experience so they can make an informed decision about what is best for their player.


It seems like you had a very bad experience.  What club did your kid play for this last year so the rest of us can make informed decisions?


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## sdklutz

I am not familiar with all the girls birth years but at U14 or the 2005s there really has only been 4-5 teams that play elite level soccer in SoCal.  How many teams are in DA and ECNL? There is a much larger group of teams at the next level...maybe another 20-25 teams that would still play good soccer but could never really compete with the top 5.


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## casper

DA vs ECNL seems to be a real hot button for a number of ECNL loyalists including some whose players have aged out of club soccer.  If I was a newbie parent and came on here and read this and other threads I would get the impression that the GDA was an inferior product. I remember on the old forum years ago reading arguments from some of the same posters whose players are now in college defending ECNL when those teams tied or loss to non ECNL teams in non ECNL tournaments. The non ECNL teams claiming they were as good or better as the ECNL teams they had beat and the ECNL parents saying they didn't care, coming off a break, or didn't play their top players, that's why they loss. Flash forward a couple years and some of those old ECNL parents are claiming superiority based on Silverlakes or the younger ages at Surf Cup that ECNL is better than DA.   It's ironic to see this argument come full circle.  I am not here to claim DA teams are better than ECNL teams nor the opposite that ECNL is better than DA.  Prior to Silverlakes or Surf Cup the DA was on a 4 week break many DA clubs came back that week and it was their first time they ever played together as a team was that weekend.  The fact that so much was put on 3 friendlies in 90+ degree weather is silly at best no matter which way the score went.  As far as the US Youth National team losses are a referendum on the GDA after one season of existence is absurd.  There are issues that run deep within US soccer going back as long there has been US soccer.  I am sure if your daughter is one of the .0001% that get to play for the US she will be discovered no matter what league she plays for. High School soccer if you followed these threads you would think there is a mass exodus of GDA players running from their DA teams to join ECNL teams or other teams because of the no HS rule. This is absolutely false.  Every player I know that left the GDA was for 3 reasons just like any team, didn't make the squad, didn't like the coaching staff, or the 4 days a week of training was too much.  HS soccer wasn't never the catalyst it was sometimes the final excuse.  So why all the hostility or negativity towards the GDA on here because most of the active posters kids play in ECNL, or the posters coach an ECNL team, or their kids have aged out but they played ECNL and know nothing or very little of the GDA, or they are jaded about US soccer.  Like most forums there is bits of truth and pieces of good info on here but the majority of it is false.  If I were a parent and my daughter was good enough to play GDA or ECNL I would find the best coaching staff and program within a reasonable distance that would help her reach her goals but improve her as a player.  The days of getting a couple unicorns and playing kick and run, high pressure D, and free substitution to keep the ranks fresh doesn't help the growth of soccer in this country or the growth of individuals.  Clubs that win aren't superior they have superior players and most feed the one or two best players on those teams and the rest are just a supporting casts.  You want to know what would make the US even better at women's soccer finding players that were technical, had tremendous soccer IQs, and when they were on the field they made everyone else around them better, not because of how many goals they scored, but how they moved the ball and made real time decisions that made their teammates better.  Maybe GDA fails, maybe ECNL gets relegated to a 2nd tier league, maybe someday they figure out how to combine the two who knows but that's on a macro level on the micro level you can do your part by finding quality coaches and a program that helps your daughter reach her potential.


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## futboldad1

casper said:


> DA vs ECNL seems to be a real hot button for a number of ECNL loyalists including some whose players have aged out of club soccer.  If I was a newbie parent and came on here and read this and other threads I would get the impression that the GDA was an inferior product. I remember on the old forum years ago reading arguments from some of the same posters whose players are now in college defending ECNL when those teams tied or loss to non ECNL teams in non ECNL tournaments. The non ECNL teams claiming they were as good or better as the ECNL teams they had beat and the ECNL parents saying they didn't care, coming off a break, or didn't play their top players, that's why they loss. Flash forward a couple years and some of those old ECNL parents are claiming superiority based on Silverlakes or the younger ages at Surf Cup that ECNL is better than DA.   It's ironic to see this argument come full circle.  I am not here to claim DA teams are better than ECNL teams nor the opposite that ECNL is better than DA.  Prior to Silverlakes or Surf Cup the DA was on a 4 week break many DA clubs came back that week and it was their first time they ever played together as a team was that weekend.  The fact that so much was put on 3 friendlies in 90+ degree weather is silly at best no matter which way the score went.  As far as the US Youth National team losses are a referendum on the GDA after one season of existence is absurd.  There are issues that run deep within US soccer going back as long there has been US soccer.  I am sure if your daughter is one of the .0001% that get to play for the US she will be discovered no matter what league she plays for. High School soccer if you followed these threads you would think there is a mass exodus of GDA players running from their DA teams to join ECNL teams or other teams because of the no HS rule. This is absolutely false.  Every player I know that left the GDA was for 3 reasons just like any team, didn't make the squad, didn't like the coaching staff, or the 4 days a week of training was too much.  HS soccer wasn't never the catalyst it was sometimes the final excuse.  So why all the hostility or negativity towards the GDA on here because most of the active posters kids play in ECNL, or the posters coach an ECNL team, or their kids have aged out but they played ECNL and know nothing or very little of the GDA, or they are jaded about US soccer.  Like most forums there is bits of truth and pieces of good info on here but the majority of it is false.  If I were a parent and my daughter was good enough to play GDA or ECNL I would find the best coaching staff and program within a reasonable distance that would help her reach her goals but improve her as a player.  The days of getting a couple unicorns and playing kick and run, high pressure D, and free substitution to keep the ranks fresh doesn't help the growth of soccer in this country or the growth of individuals.  Clubs that win aren't superior they have superior players and most feed the one or two best players on those teams and the rest are just a supporting casts.  You want to know what would make the US even better at women's soccer finding players that were technical, had tremendous soccer IQs, and when they were on the field they made everyone else around them better, not because of how many goals they scored, but how they moved the ball and made real time decisions that made their teammates better.  Maybe GDA fails, maybe ECNL gets relegated to a 2nd tier league, maybe someday they figure out how to combine the two who knows but that's on a macro level on the micro level you can do your part by finding quality coaches and a program that helps your daughter reach her potential.


Like every other post, including mine, you have your bias and yours are particularly clear to see despite your closing arguments about what's best for the kids. To talk about "90 degree weather", calling paid games "friendlies", and saying "but they came off a 4 week break" to excuse GDAs poor showing is pretty laughable. Why on earth were they playing in a showcase of they hadn't been training for a month? How does that benefit the kids? Just deal with the facts, which in the past few weeks favored ECNL but in coming weeks or years may favor GDA.

To be clear, nobody knows if GDA or ECNL will end up on top or if US Soccer will accept ECNLs offer to collaborate and allow their teams to play ECNL teams. That's where we are at. Lots of moving an shaking going on behind the scenes. It's as clear as mud.


----------



## espola

casper said:


> DA vs ECNL seems to be a real hot button for a number of ECNL loyalists including some whose players have aged out of club soccer.  If I was a newbie parent and came on here and read this and other threads I would get the impression that the GDA was an inferior product. I remember on the old forum years ago reading arguments from some of the same posters whose players are now in college defending ECNL when those teams tied or loss to non ECNL teams in non ECNL tournaments. The non ECNL teams claiming they were as good or better as the ECNL teams they had beat and the ECNL parents saying they didn't care, coming off a break, or didn't play their top players, that's why they loss. Flash forward a couple years and some of those old ECNL parents are claiming superiority based on Silverlakes or the younger ages at Surf Cup that ECNL is better than DA.   It's ironic to see this argument come full circle.  I am not here to claim DA teams are better than ECNL teams nor the opposite that ECNL is better than DA.  Prior to Silverlakes or Surf Cup the DA was on a 4 week break many DA clubs came back that week and it was their first time they ever played together as a team was that weekend.  The fact that so much was put on 3 friendlies in 90+ degree weather is silly at best no matter which way the score went.  As far as the US Youth National team losses are a referendum on the GDA after one season of existence is absurd.  There are issues that run deep within US soccer going back as long there has been US soccer.  I am sure if your daughter is one of the .0001% that get to play for the US she will be discovered no matter what league she plays for. High School soccer if you followed these threads you would think there is a mass exodus of GDA players running from their DA teams to join ECNL teams or other teams because of the no HS rule. This is absolutely false.  Every player I know that left the GDA was for 3 reasons just like any team, didn't make the squad, didn't like the coaching staff, or the 4 days a week of training was too much.  HS soccer wasn't never the catalyst it was sometimes the final excuse.  So why all the hostility or negativity towards the GDA on here because most of the active posters kids play in ECNL, or the posters coach an ECNL team, or their kids have aged out but they played ECNL and know nothing or very little of the GDA, or they are jaded about US soccer.  Like most forums there is bits of truth and pieces of good info on here but the majority of it is false.  If I were a parent and my daughter was good enough to play GDA or ECNL I would find the best coaching staff and program within a reasonable distance that would help her reach her goals but improve her as a player.  The days of getting a couple unicorns and playing kick and run, high pressure D, and free substitution to keep the ranks fresh doesn't help the growth of soccer in this country or the growth of individuals.  Clubs that win aren't superior they have superior players and most feed the one or two best players on those teams and the rest are just a supporting casts.  You want to know what would make the US even better at women's soccer finding players that were technical, had tremendous soccer IQs, and when they were on the field they made everyone else around them better, not because of how many goals they scored, but how they moved the ball and made real time decisions that made their teammates better.  Maybe GDA fails, maybe ECNL gets relegated to a 2nd tier league, maybe someday they figure out how to combine the two who knows but that's on a macro level on the micro level you can do your part by finding quality coaches and a program that helps your daughter reach her potential.


So which DA team does your kid play for?


----------



## casper

futboldad1 said:


> Like every other post, including mine, you have your bias and yours are particularly clear to see despite your closing arguments about what's best for the kids. To talk about "90 degree weather", calling paid games "friendlies", and saying "but they came off a 4 week break" to excuse GDAs poor showing is pretty laughable. Why on earth were they playing in a showcase of they hadn't been training for a month? How does that benefit the kids? Just deal with the facts, which in the past few weeks favored ECNL but in coming weeks or years may favor GDA.
> 
> To be clear, nobody knows if GDA or ECNL will end up on top or if US Soccer will accept ECNLs offer to collaborate and allow their teams to play ECNL teams. That's where we are at. Lots of moving an shaking going on behind the scenes. It's as clear as mud.


You don't get it. I was using the same arguments that some of the older posters used to defend their dd's losses to non ECNL teams back when there was no GDA and pointing out the hypocrisy. I have been around a minute or two and have a little experience on these boards. I don't care what club team or what league anyone's kid plays for.  Just pointing out this has been a pretty one sided argument on here and if you are a parent that just reads these threads and doesn't post, don't believe all the negativity.


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## LASTMAN14

espola said:


> So which DA team does your kid play for?


E, you should know that Casper is a long time poster, and a big contributor on the old forum.


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## Simisoccerfan

Very quiet here with the U15 team beating Portugal 3-0.


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## davin

Simisoccerfan said:


> Very quiet here with the U15 team beating Portugal 3-0.


The only ECNL kid on the team scored 2 of the 3 US goals.


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## El Clasico

Simisoccerfan said:


> Very quiet here with the U15 team beating Portugal 3-0.


It's stupid sh*t like that statement that keeps us old timers scratching our heads. You do realize that LA county has more people than the entire country of Portugal. Are we happy the US won? Yes! Is that an impressive result when you factor in population, infrastructure, and resources sunk into girls soccer in this country.

Only left with a daughter playing club now and the girls boards drive me crazy. At least on the boys side, after all those years, we knew the DA sucked. Only we didn't have any options other than Europe.


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## SOCCERMINION

The DA needs to just come out with an official statement that only Girls Rostered on current DA teams are eligible to play for a USSF National Team. This will cause a push toward there program of the type of girls and parents they want . GDA is here for control of Elite Girls Soccer, And rightfully so. They have one thing on their agenda, Making Better National Teams. They should not focus on anything else, I'd go so far as to also put out a statement stating that they would prefer Athletes forgo playing Collage and focus on entering directly into the professional Women's leagues. Playing in Collage will only hinder their chances of playing for the National Teams. They don't need  girls that are not good enough to go straight to the Pro's or able to make the top National Team's. They only need to produce what 5 girls each year that are capable of achieving this level.
GDA is not here to make the collage game better , or make sure girls get a good education or make sure parents are happy.They need to get serious and focus on what they need to do. They need to make more Mailory Pughs who do not waste their time with collage. 
Leave all that nonsense for ECNL or Whoever wants to focus on that waste of time.


----------



## espola

SOCCERMINION said:


> The DA needs to just come out with an official statement that only Girls Rostered on current DA teams are eligible to play for a USSF National Team. This will cause a push toward there program of the type of girls and parents they want . GDA is here for control of Elite Girls Soccer, And rightfully so. They have one thing on their agenda, Making Better National Teams. They should not focus on anything else, I'd go so far as to also put out a statement stating that they would prefer Athletes forgo playing Collage and focus on entering directly into the professional Women's leagues. Playing in Collage will only hinder their chances of playing for the National Teams. They don't need  girls that are not good enough to go straight to the Pro's or able to make the top National Team's. They only need to produce what 5 girls each year that are capable of achieving this level.
> GDA is not here to make the collage game better , or make sure girls get a good education or make sure parents are happy.They need to get serious and focus on what they need to do. They need to make more Mailory Pughs who do not waste their time with collage.
> Leave all that nonsense for ECNL or Whoever wants to focus on that waste of time.


Nonsense.


----------



## MWN

SOCCERMINION said:


> The DA needs to just come out with an official statement that only Girls Rostered on current DA teams are eligible to play for a USSF National Team. This will cause a push toward there program of the type of girls and parents they want . GDA is here for control of Elite Girls Soccer, And rightfully so. They have one thing on their agenda, Making Better National Teams. They should not focus on anything else, I'd go so far as to also put out a statement stating that they would prefer Athletes forgo playing Collage and focus on entering directly into the professional Women's leagues. Playing in Collage will only hinder their chances of playing for the National Teams. They don't need  girls that are not good enough to go straight to the Pro's or able to make the top National Team's. They only need to produce what 5 girls each year that are capable of achieving this level.
> GDA is not here to make the collage game better , or make sure girls get a good education or make sure parents are happy.They need to get serious and focus on what they need to do. They need to make more Mailory Pughs who do not waste their time with collage.
> Leave all that nonsense for ECNL or Whoever wants to focus on that waste of time.


The problem is that the National Team is made up of "women" over 22.  Girls age out of the DA at 18/19.  From that point forward its up to college and/or some semi-pro team to develop the talent.  US Soccer throws bucks at the NWSL to keep it alive so their golden 30 have somewhere to play.  From a pure investment standpoint.  Its better to push all the girls to college and simply identify the top players after they graduate from the semi-pro ranks, which is what the ECNL was doing.


----------



## El Clasico

SOCCERMINION said:


> The DA needs to just come out with an official statement that only Girls Rostered on current DA teams are eligible to play for a USSF National Team. This will cause a push toward there program of the type of girls and parents they want . GDA is here for control of Elite Girls Soccer, And rightfully so. They have one thing on their agenda, Making Better National Teams. They should not focus on anything else, I'd go so far as to also put out a statement stating that they would prefer Athletes forgo playing Collage and focus on entering directly into the professional Women's leagues. Playing in Collage will only hinder their chances of playing for the National Teams. They don't need  girls that are not good enough to go straight to the Pro's or able to make the top National Team's. They only need to produce what 5 girls each year that are capable of achieving this level.
> GDA is not here to make the collage game better , or make sure girls get a good education or make sure parents are happy.They need to get serious and focus on what they need to do. They need to make more Mailory Pughs who do not waste their time with collage.
> Leave all that nonsense for ECNL or Whoever wants to focus on that waste of time.


This makes a lot of sense.. Play DA, age out, get a job at McDonalds to hone your skills for a few years while you are waiting for your big break to come from the National Team. That's some Brilliant sh*t right there. I wish I would of gotten this advice sooner. As it is now, I have two wasting their time in college working on their BS (now I know why they call it BS, it's a waste of time) and one that really knows how to waste his time working on a post graduate degree. Oh well, I have one left and I won't make the same mistakes with her. In fact, I am going to cancel next weeks appointment with the admissions counselor from a school from her list. Wait a minute, if college is a waste of time for her, doesn't that mean this all this worrying about homework and grades is unnecessary since that would be a waste of time too? She should be using her study time for a 5th and 6th practice. Thanks Soccerminion. Now I know why you are soccerminion


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## Soccer43

MarkM said:


> It seems like you had a very bad experience.  What club did your kid play for this last year so the rest of us can make informed decisions?


My comments are more global than just my DD's own experience this past year.  I also don't come on this forum and trash any one particular club.   It is not my job to tell parents where they should or shouldn't go nor that one particular club is bad.  If I am having a personal conversation with people I know I am happy to share my experiences but not on a public forum with the vipers that are eager to attack and misconstrue statements.     I am suggesting that the cheerleaders about DA or ECNL present factual and comprehensive information (pros and cons) so newbies can make an informed decision.    When GDA was announced there a lot of promises and inferences about it and it led to a lot of changes for many players  and after a year in action the GDA does not seem like the clear winning product.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

El Clasico said:


> It's stupid sh*t like that statement that keeps us old timers scratching our heads. You do realize that LA county has more people than the entire country of Portugal. Are we happy the US won? Yes! Is that an impressive result when you factor in population, infrastructure, and resources sunk into girls soccer in this country.
> 
> Only left with a daughter playing club now and the girls boards drive me crazy. At least on the boys side, after all those years, we knew the DA sucked. Only we didn't have any options other than Europe.


Maybe you got lice?  I hear what your saying but my comment was directed out how people over react over one loss.  It had nothing to do with the DA.


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## Simisoccerfan

Soccer43 said:


> My comments are more global than just my DD's own experience this past year.  I also don't come on this forum and trash any one particular club.   It is not my job to tell parents where they should or shouldn't go nor that one particular club is bad.  If I am having a personal conversation with people I know I am happy to share my experiences but not on a public forum with the vipers that are eager to attack and misconstrue statements.     I am suggesting that the cheerleaders about DA or ECNL present factual and comprehensive information (pros and cons) so newbies can make an informed decision.    When GDA was announced there a lot of promises and inferences about it and it led to a lot of changes for many players  and after a year in action the GDA does not seem like the clear winning product.





Soccer43 said:


> or as coaches get sent prison for sexual crimes against minors and players don't want to play for a club that claimed ignorance


----------



## Simisoccerfan

El Clasico said:


> This makes a lot of sense.. Play DA, age out, get a job at McDonalds to hone your skills for a few years while you are waiting for your big break to come from the National Team. That's some Brilliant sh*t right there. I wish I would of gotten this advice sooner. As it is now, I have two wasting their time in college working on their BS (now I know why they call it BS, it's a waste of time) and one that really knows how to waste his time working on a post graduate degree. Oh well, I have one left and I won't make the same mistakes with her. In fact, I am going to cancel next weeks appointment with the admissions counselor from a school from her list. Wait a minute, if college is a waste of time for her, doesn't that mean this all this worrying about homework and grades is unnecessary since that would be a waste of time too? She should be using her study time for a 5th and 6th practice. Thanks Soccerminion. Now I know why you are soccerminion


I can’t agree more with you.  The unfortunate reality of women’s soccer is that every one of kids are better off making sure their education comes first. Max NWSL salary is only $44k without a National team stipend.


----------



## shales1002

Simisoccerfan said:


> Very quiet here with the U15 team beating Portugal 3-0.


Dude it was a 6 hour weather delay; no one even knew it was finished.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

shales1002 said:


> Dude it was a 6 hour weather delay; no one even knew it was finished.


I agree that the Concacaf website sucks.


----------



## shales1002

Simisoccerfan said:


> Maybe you got lice?  I hear what your saying but my comment was directed out how people over react over one loss.  It had nothing to do with the DA.


@Simisoccerfan it wasn’t an over reaction, merely an observation. There is no way they should have lost to Portugal the first time. They picked great players and left the spectacular ones at home because they play ECNL. As I stated previously, when USSF is successful it’s because of the GDA, and when it’s not it’s because of all the bad Ecnl coaching from the previous year.

@SOCCERMINION is correct. Just come out it’s an official statement. Keep it real. Then people, IF possible, can plan accordingly.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

shales1002 said:


> @Simisoccerfan it wasn’t an over reaction, merely an observation. There is no way they should have lost to Portugal the first time. They picked great players and left the spectacular ones at home because they play ECNL. As I stated previously, when USSF is successful it’s because of the GDA, and when it’s not it’s because of all the bad Ecnl coaching from the previous year.
> 
> @SOCCERMINION is correct. Just come out it’s an official statement. Keep it real. Then people, IF possible, can plan accordingly.


I defer to your knowledge of the players since my dd is older and you know the players.  

I think it would be silly for US Soccer to make that statement especially for the entry level teams.


----------



## shales1002

Simisoccerfan said:


> I defer to your knowledge of the players since my dd is older and you know the players.
> 
> I think it would be silly for US Soccer to make that statement especially for the entry level teams.


It’s absolutely silly all the way around. We agree.


----------



## GoWest

Were there a few u17's in ECNL that are rostered?


----------



## GoWest

SOCCERMINION said:


> The DA needs to just come out with an official statement that only Girls Rostered on current DA teams are eligible to play for a USSF National Team. This will cause a push toward there program of the type of girls and parents they want . GDA is here for control of Elite Girls Soccer, And rightfully so. They have one thing on their agenda, Making Better National Teams. They should not focus on anything else, I'd go so far as to also put out a statement stating that they would prefer Athletes forgo playing Collage and focus on entering directly into the professional Women's leagues. Playing in Collage will only hinder their chances of playing for the National Teams. They don't need  girls that are not good enough to go straight to the Pro's or able to make the top National Team's. They only need to produce what 5 girls each year that are capable of achieving this level.
> GDA is not here to make the collage game better , or make sure girls get a good education or make sure parents are happy.They need to get serious and focus on what they need to do. They need to make more Mailory Pughs who do not waste their time with collage.
> Leave all that nonsense for ECNL or Whoever wants to focus on that waste of time.


I sense your sarcasm weaved throughout....


----------



## Avanti

shales1002 said:


> It’s absolutely silly all the way around. We agree.


You just cannot accept that the coaches picked other players over yours. It is that simple, and your bias understandable. It happens all the time, both that one's daughter is not picked and that some parents are disappointed. What is new in your case is the amount of bitching in a public forum, and your use of the DA/ECNL excuse. And to make it worse, your answer to the non-selection of your daughter is to disrespect the players that made the roster: "They picked great players and left the spectacular ones at home because they play ECNL" .     
Since you have been bitching about  US Soccer for the last few months, and knew how bad they were, why did you continue sending your player to the camps? Man up, be consistent with your opinion about US Soccer, an stop sending your daughter. And email the coach to let her know what you think about her. You won't do either.


----------



## MakeAPlay

SOCCERMINION said:


> The DA needs to just come out with an official statement that only Girls Rostered on current DA teams are eligible to play for a USSF National Team. This will cause a push toward there program of the type of girls and parents they want . GDA is here for control of Elite Girls Soccer, And rightfully so. They have one thing on their agenda, Making Better National Teams. They should not focus on anything else, I'd go so far as to also put out a statement stating that they would prefer Athletes forgo playing Collage and focus on entering directly into the professional Women's leagues. Playing in Collage will only hinder their chances of playing for the National Teams. They don't need  girls that are not good enough to go straight to the Pro's or able to make the top National Team's. They only need to produce what 5 girls each year that are capable of achieving this level.
> GDA is not here to make the collage game better , or make sure girls get a good education or make sure parents are happy.They need to get serious and focus on what they need to do. They need to make more Mailory Pughs who do not waste their time with collage.
> Leave all that nonsense for ECNL or Whoever wants to focus on that waste of time.


I assume that you are being funny.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Avanti said:


> You just cannot accept that the coaches picked other players over yours. It is that simple, and your bias understandable. It happens all the time, both that one's daughter is not picked and that some parents are disappointed. What is new in your case is the amount of bitching in a public forum, and your use of the DA/ECNL excuse. And to make it worse, your answer to the non-selection of your daughter is to disrespect the players that made the roster: "They picked great players and left the spectacular ones at home because they play ECNL" .
> Since you have been bitching about  US Soccer for the last few months, and knew how bad they were, why did you continue sending your player to the camps? Man up, be consistent with your opinion about US Soccer, an stop sending your daughter. And email the coach to let her know what you think about her. You won't do either.


Not defending @shales1002 because she is doing fine by herself, however, with the results that US Soccer is achieving at all levels do you really think that they are picking the best players?  On the U20 team there are players that don’t start on their college teams!  The player with the most US youth national team experience on my player’s team comes off the bench!  Have you been watching the U20 WWC?  You wouldn’t be saying this if you were watching any of the European teams play.  They have already passed us up!

Kids get the invite to camp the accept it.  My player accepted an invite just to tell them she was hurt.  US Soccer punished kids that skip invites unless they are confirmed injured.  Lots of egos and nepotism.  Do some digging of your own regarding the US Soccer staff on the women’s side and you will find some curious things.  The 4 best US women’s coaches have cushy jobs at top universities and at least two of them have been offered the top job and don’t want it (one told me when I asked).  Don’t make this about @shales1002.  Her kid will be fine and hopefully will CHOOSE to be a legacy player wearing Blue and Gold!  UCLA would be fortunate to have her!

That last part about emailing US Soccer was lame!  I would love to give the establishment a piece of my mind but my kid asked me not to as they know that the federation is petty and would retaliate.  Look at how Jaelene Hinkle is treated for having despicable views.  She is the best US left back and should be on the team but they are too petty for that.


----------



## shales1002

Avanti said:


> You just cannot accept that the coaches picked other players over yours. It is that simple, and your bias understandable. It happens all the time, both that one's daughter is not picked and that some parents are disappointed. What is new in your case is the amount of bitching in a public forum, and your use of the DA/ECNL excuse. And to make it worse, your answer to the non-selection of your daughter is to disrespect the players that made the roster: "They picked great players and left the spectacular ones at home because they play ECNL" .
> Since you have been bitching about  US Soccer for the last few months, and knew how bad they were, why did you continue sending your player to the camps? Man up, be consistent with your opinion about US Soccer, an stop sending your daughter. And email the coach to let her know what you think about her. You won't do either.



Did I strike a nerve?  As I have always stated it’s not about my DD. Nor do I ever bring her up! My opinion has and will continue to be, stop playing games and pick the best whether it’s coaches or players REGARDLESS of league affiliation. This includes GDA, ECNL, Non affiliated!  Whatever! Interestingly, US Club just sent an email stating as much. I’ve always wished the ALL the girls well and much success!  I pray and hope they continue along their path of success and stay healthy. There are certainly some very hardworking and deserving players in Florida.

Did I bash the coach anywhere? Never! Read all my posts. Perhaps those selecting are just doing what they are told to do.  Honestly, I don’t know! That part is speculation. People are just doing their jobs. They have a product they need the best players to buy into. 

Whatever the case , I am able to draw conclusions based on press releases and there are ALOT of them.


----------



## Avanti

MakeAPlay said:


> That last part about emailing US Soccer was lame!  I would love to give the establishment a piece of my mind but my kid asked me not to as they know that the federation is petty and would retaliate.  Look at how Jaelene Hinkle is treated for having despicable views.  She is the best US left back and should be on the team but they are too petty for that.


Being consequent with what you think is never lame. Throwing tantrums and bitching because you don't get what you want while using your daughter as an excuse ("... but my kid asked me ..."), disrespecting players and coaches (the rostered players are terrible compared to mine, all these coaches do not know crap because they do not pick my daughter, etc.), and coming back to please those who are supposedly hurting you, is lame.


----------



## shales1002

Avanti said:


> Being consequent with what you think is never lame. Throwing tantrums and bitching because you don't get what you want while using your daughter as an excuse ("... but my kid asked me ..."), disrespecting players and coaches (the rostered players are terrible compared to mine, all these coaches do not know crap because they do not pick my daughter, etc.), and coming back to please those who are supposedly hurting you, is lame.


Dude eat a bowl Wheaties and drink 5 cups of coffee. Then comeback!  You seriously need a timeout.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Avanti said:


> Being consequent with what you think is never lame. Throwing tantrums and bitching because you don't get what you want while using your daughter as an excuse ("... but my kid asked me ..."), disrespecting players and coaches (the rostered players are terrible compared to mine, all these coaches do not know crap because they do not pick my daughter, etc.), and coming back to please those who are supposedly hurting you, is lame.


You are reaching now.  Show me where I have EVER said anything negative about one of my players teammates.  Facts are facts McFly.  Not once have I bitched about my kid not getting picked.  Dumba$$ if my kid had been healthy she would have been picked.  But of course you wouldn’t know because you are uninformed.
You still haven’t answered my questions from my first post that you quoted.  You are a transparent clown.  Keep defending your position even though it is completely WRONG!

I never use my kid as an excuse.  Soccer is her thing and I have always respected my kids wishes.  That is why she is so confident and powerful and has done and will continue to do great things.

Nice try.  Do better.


----------



## Ellejustus

My two cents about DA and ECNL.  My dd is going into her FR year of HS.  Her former team won the U13 National Championship in 2017.  She played 04' DA this year with the same team that won it all.  At the end of the day, she wasn't invited to any national camps and no coach has told her she will.  No feed back from DA scouts or coaches, only club coaches who aren't always telling you the truth.  She decided she wanted to play HS soccer after she got back from NC.  She didn't have the fun she usually does with being on a soccer team.  The DA "team" was not the same as it was before.  She prefers playing on a "team" trying win a championship (big mistake not having playoffs for the 04' DA this year) over the individual player trying to make camp.  It's not her style or strength.  I will say that if she was picked for one of the camps she would have stayed DA and worked hard to achieve one of her dream goals.  She's not willing to sacrifice her time with fun things to do and her social life for a chance to be one of the few chosen at this time in her young life.  I can't blame her.  Besides, the YNT coaches picked 25% 05s in all the 04's camps and on top of that, SoCal is a tough place to compete to be one of the best forwards.  The writing is on the wall folks (dad).   Time to face reality   She hooked up with an ECNL team that has a great coach and a very talented group of older players to help her get better and help her get what this is all about for us 99%ers........  A scholarship to the best college that fits her personality and game.  Both leagues have great teams and great individual players.  For my dd, it came down to personal choice, not whats a better league.  My only advice to US Soccer is to not have clubs run Girls DA.  In Socal, I would have four teams funded 100% by US Soccer in LA, IE, OC and SD.  The girls who show talent, hard work and a commitment to be the "best of the best" can go for it.  Way too much politics in club soccer and US Soccer right now IMHO!  I will check back in next year after ECNL and give you all an update....lol!


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> My two cents about DA and ECNL.  My dd is going into her FR year of HS.  Her former team won the U13 National Championship in 2017.  She played 04' DA this year with the same team that won it all.  At the end of the day, she wasn't invited to any national camps and no coach has told her she will.  No feed back from DA scouts or coaches, only club coaches who aren't always telling you the truth.  She decided she wanted to play HS soccer after she got back from NC.  She didn't have the fun she usually does with being on a soccer team.  The DA "team" was not the same as it was before.  She prefers playing on a "team" trying win a championship (big mistake not having playoffs for the 04' DA this year) over the individual player trying to make camp.  It's not her style or strength.  I will say that if she was picked for one of the camps she would have stayed DA and worked hard to achieve one of her dream goals.  She's not willing to sacrifice her time with fun things to do and her social life for a chance to be one of the few chosen at this time in her young life.  I can't blame her.  Besides, the YNT coaches picked 25% 05s in all the 04's camps and on top of that, SoCal is a tough place to compete to be one of the best forwards.  The writing is on the wall folks (dad).   Time to face reality   She hooked up with an ECNL team that has a great coach and a very talented group of older players to help her get better and help her get what this is all about for us 99%ers........  A scholarship to the best college that fits her personality and game.  Both leagues have great teams and great individual players.  For my dd, it came down to personal choice, not whats a better league.  My only advice to US Soccer is to not have clubs run Girls DA.  In Socal, I would have four teams funded 100% by US Soccer in LA, IE, OC and SD.  The girls who show talent, hard work and a commitment to be the "best of the best" can go for it.  Way too much politics in club soccer and US Soccer right now IMHO!  I will check back in next year after ECNL and give you all an update....lol!


Forgot one more idea. Have both leagues go to single band and have a true championship game after the DA and ECNL crown their champions from each age group.  That would be some fun stuff to watch.


----------



## Soccer43

excellent post!  exactly right.


----------



## Soccer43

sorry dude- not going to engage with you.  The post was related to why players and parents might be changing clubs - truth,  not my players individual experience


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Soccer43 said:


> sorry dude- not going to engage with you.  The post was related to why players and parents might be changing clubs - truth,  not my players individual experience


Ok. It just seemed like you came in a bit hard and then were a bit hypocritical.


----------



## Soccer43

Simisoccerfan said:


> Ok. It just seemed like you came in a bit hard and then were a bit hypocritical.


No, not hypocritical.  I call it like I see it when it comes to pedophiles and have no tolerance.  Youth players are in a vulnerable position with a lot of demands made of them by the clubs and at the end of the day DOC's and club owners have to hold some responsibility for oversight over their programs and coaches.


----------



## Soccer43

*National Council of Youth Sports - http://www.ncys.org/childsafety.html*

Results of a recent study conducted by NCYS reveals that even though all organizations recognize abuse/molestation as a serious threat, only a small percentage have implemented measures to effectively combat the threat. Deficiencies were found in four primary categories:
� Education for employees, volunteers, and membership
� Quality criminal background screening programs
� Strict guidelines for the reporting of incidents
� Established procedures for responding to reported incidents

 For the clubs that have had a problem like this have they evaluated or implemented anything going forward?  It is a culture that allows for the opportunities of bad people.


----------



## davin

shales1002 said:


> Did I strike a nerve?  As I have always stated it’s not about my DD. Nor do I ever bring her up! My opinion has and will continue to be, stop playing games and pick the best whether it’s coaches or players REGARDLESS of league affiliation. This includes GDA, ECNL, Non affiliated!  Whatever! Interestingly, US Club just sent an email stating as much. I’ve always wished the ALL the girls well and much success!  I pray and hope they continue along their path of success and stay healthy. There are certainly some very hardworking and deserving players in Florida.
> 
> Did I bash the coach anywhere? Never! Read all my posts. Perhaps those selecting are just doing what they are told to do.  Honestly, I don’t know! That part is speculation. People are just doing their jobs. They have a product they need the best players to buy into.
> 
> Whatever the case , I am able to draw conclusions based on press releases and there are ALOT of them.


The mail that US Club Soccer sent is in the message box below, in case anyone is interested.



> Dear US Club Soccer member organizations, players and coaches,
> 
> Over the past few weeks, US Club Soccer has engaged with U.S. Soccer leadership to discuss multiple issues raised by the membership over the past year. We are encouraged by these recent conversations and look forward to working with U.S. Soccer and other affiliates to address these issues and begin to repair the increasingly fractured youth soccer landscape.
> 
> US Club Soccer takes seriously our responsibility to create a positive environment that supports our clubs and leagues in the development of players. In this role, we aim to prioritize the issues that most negatively affect our membership, understanding that some of them took more than a decade to reach current levels and may not be solved as quickly as we would like. Regardless of how long it takes to develop and implement solutions, we are committed to supporting our membership and positively resolving all of these issues.
> 
> The US Club Soccer Board of Directors appreciates your input. We would like to communicate to you our position on the issues you have raised and welcome further input on all of these issues through your elected board members. We will be working with U.S. Soccer and others to address the following issues in search of a better environment for our membership and in the game generally:
> 
> We support the formation of task forces with authority to collaboratively review, evaluate and affect change in youth soccer.
> 
> We believe there is a clear distinction between recreational and select soccer, including the motives that drive children to participate and/or leave our sport.
> 
> We believe players should participate in competitively appropriate platforms, but there are negative, unintended consequences associated with establishing those levels too young.
> 
> *
> We believe in the importance and value of multiple pathways for identification/scouting into youth national team selection.
> 
> We believe that no coach or scout should discriminate against or put pressure on players that implies they will be viewed, scouted, or evaluated differently for national team selection based on league or club affiliation.
> 
> We believe players should feel free to participate with any club, league, program or organization without pressure or fear of retribution or discrimination.*
> 
> 
> We support the creation of objective measures of clubs charged with the development of players, based on the daily environment established by the club and not exclusively on the league in which they participate.
> 
> We believe clubs and their leadership should be the primary decision-makers in the structure and organization of soccer.
> 
> We fully support our youth and full national teams and will continue to assist their future success any way we can.
> 
> As your representative members of the US Club Soccer Board of Directors, we are committed to supporting your efforts and voicing your concerns. We are dedicated to making the game better for players, clubs, and coaches, and doing so professionally, honestly, and collaboratively.
> 
> Thank you for sharing your voice with us, and for being a part of our organization!
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> US Club Soccer Board of Directors


----------



## Zen

I'll believe it when I see it, but I hope they will practice what they preach.  Facts for U14/U15's say otherwise.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Soccer43 said:


> No, not hypocritical.  I call it like I see it when it comes to pedophiles and have no tolerance.  Youth players are in a vulnerable position with a lot of demands made of them by the clubs and at the end of the day DOC's and club owners have to hold some responsibility for oversight over their programs and coaches.


As do we all.  I am not questioning you about badmouthing him. It was a horrible situation for everyone which pales in comparison to what that poor girl had to go through.  But you do understand the definition of hypocrisy which means claiming one thing (such as saying you don’t come online to bad mouth clubs) and but doing the opposite?


----------



## SOCCERMINION

MakeAPlay said:


> I assume that you are being funny.


Funny/Pragmatic , unfortunately, this is the Path many Parents are dreaming and hoping GDA takes there DD...  Its the "My girl is the next Mallory Syndrome".  GDA should go all the way to accommodate these parents and players dreams. Its the Pragmatic way to go to build more high caliber athletes.. But yes it is Lunacy,  
I'm still on the fence about Girls Playing College for 1- 2 years. This is a very cost effective means to Vet out the top .001%, and it's working for the NFL and NBA. US Soccer should look into continuing this model until the pro leagues and clubs are able to generate substantial revenue selling young players contracts. So they may not want to add the statement that they would prefer athletes not attend College, just yet.
https://bigthink.com/articles/why-do-you-have-to-go-to-college-become-a-pro-footballbasketball-player


----------



## Lightning Red

Very impressive 3-0 win for the USA  in the Concacaf final over Mexico. Some extremely talented girls on the USA squad.


----------



## shales1002

Lightning Red said:


> Very impressive 3-0 win for the USA  in the Concacaf final over Mexico. Some extremely talented girls on the USA squad.


All in overtime too! Great job to J.S. she really turned it on.


----------



## Soccer43

Simisoccerfan said:


> As do we all.  I am not questioning you about badmouthing him. It was a horrible situation for everyone which pales in comparison to what that poor girl had to go through.  But you do understand the definition of hypocrisy which means claiming one thing (such as saying you don’t come online to bad mouth clubs) and but doing the opposite?


I did not come on the forum just to trash a club because of a personal experience I had or spreading rumors etc to influence others about a club.    Someone asked about why players might be moving clubs and I commented on public information that could be a contributing factor.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Soccer43 said:


> I did not come on the forum just to trash a club because of a personal experience I had or spreading rumors etc to influence others about a club.    Someone asked about why players might be moving clubs and I commented on public information that could be a contributing factor.


Ok.  It was a bit of a factor last year but SM leaving before that was a bigger factor.


----------



## Justafan

Lightning Red said:


> Very impressive 3-0 win for the USA  in the Concacaf final over Mexico. Some extremely talented girls on the USA squad.


So it was 0-0 at the end of regulation?  Was it close or one of those games completely dominated by the USA but just couldn’t get one in? Surprised they needed overtime.


----------



## Soccer43

from the parts that I watched it seemed like Mexico was dominating for a lot of the game and couldn't get the ball in the net then in overtime Mexico seemed to run out of gas and USA took charge


----------



## Dubs

Mexico had the better chances in regulation.  Agreed they ran out of steam in OT.  US took advantage.


----------



## davin

Mexico was all over the US towards the end of the second half, but couldn’t finish.
Not sure why, but the US midfield was almost nonexistent. They were nonexistent in previous games as well.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

davin said:


> Mexico was all over the US towards the end of the second half, but couldn’t finish.
> Not sure why, but the US midfield was almost nonexistent. They were nonexistent in previous games as well.


Almost like there were no barriers to stop them.


----------



## davin

Sheriff Joe said:


> Almost like there were no barriers to stop them.


Not getting into any political discussions, but that was pretty funny.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

davin said:


> Not getting into any political discussions, but that was pretty funny.


I was trying to keep it light.


----------



## casper

espola said:


> So which DA team does your kid play for?


My kid played 2 yrs of ECNL, freshman year of HS she played Varsity for a decent HS team, and this will be her 2nd year playing Academy. The point is she has experienced everything that is debated on here and as a parent I have seen the best and worst of ECNL, HS, and Academy.  She is an young 02 and it's been a long and  tumultuous couple years with the age changes, the formation of the DA, and the split age groups last year in Academy.  She joined Academy not in hope's of ever playing for the US as that isn't a realistic option she isn't a .0001% type player.  However she does play internationally and for another country so she chose Academy because after looking at a number of clubs she felt the coaching staff would be a great fit for her and the organization/structure of the training environment would make her a better player. Wins, losses,  past club success, none of that factored in for her she could care less what a club accomplished 2, 3, 10 yrs ago. She liked coach Ritson, Davis, and this year Gumpert a lot.  As a parent my role has been an unpaid Uber driver for her and an ATM machine but I get to spend time with her and be a small part of what she enjoys doing. LA Premier Academy is where she chose to play and she couldn't be happier. In the end regardless what league your daughter plays for the best is to find good coaches and an environment that allows them to grow as players. After all if your daughter wants to play D1, D2, D3, NAIA, or JC college soccer they have to continue to love the game and find an environment that will offer them exposure and a place to grow as a player.


----------



## Chris Knight

davin said:


> On what are you basing your opinion on that "most of the top players already have gone GDA"? At the Surf cup U14 age group, there was only 1 division where they put both ECNL and GDA teams, and the 2 ECNL teams both made it to the finals. In the Surf cup U13 top division, a team from an ECNL club beat a team from a GDA club to win the championship. At Silverlakes, in the two youngest age groups(U14 and U15), the ECNL teams outperfomed GDA teams head to head. If "most top players" are in GDA, shouldn't they be outperforming ECNL head to head by a landslide?


Speaking of "rose colored glasses" ^ ...

Sooooo California ; )


----------



## broshark

Chris Knight said:


> Speaking of "rose colored glasses" ^ ...
> 
> Sooooo California ; )


The funny part of this is that some SoCal ECNL teams in those age brackets can't even beat SCDSL teams head to head.  

The answer here is that there are good players everywhere.  Lots of great players in DA, lots in ECNL, and even some in the lowly "local" leagues.


----------



## davin

broshark said:


> The funny part of this is that some SoCal ECNL teams in those age brackets can't even beat SCDSL teams head to head.
> 
> The answer here is that there are good players everywhere.  Lots of great players in DA, lots in ECNL, and even some in the lowly "local" leagues.


Agreed. Good post. That was the whole point of my post, which was quoted above. The DA parent was claiming that "most top players" are in GDA based based on his knowledge of the players, and my argument was that the results of these preseason tournaments don't prove that to be the case. I don't get the relevance of "rose colored glasses" comment with regards to that discussion, but whatever.


----------



## Desert Hound

U


----------



## timbuck

What worries me a bit about DA is that US Soccer wants everyone to play a 4-3-3.  There is some good in having a uniform tactical shape across the US.  We definitely need a defined style of play.  But a "style" of play (IE - Possession, Direct, Counter Attack, Park the bus, run people over, etc) should be able to be played regardless of your formation/shape.
Part of the "fun" of playing new opponents with varying styles is that is causes the players to have to think about solving problems.
1. The other team is playing 4 in the back with 2 holding mids-  We are having trouble playing the ball in central areas.  What can we do to try and overcome this?
2. The other team has 3 crazy fast forwards and plays a 4-3-3.  Our backline of 4 needs some help on the wing, so we need to get our wingers to drop deeper or they are going to carve us up. 
3. We are facing a 4-4-2 with the opposing wide midfielders owning the width at midfield and playing thru balls to their  2 forwards who are making crossing runs.
4.  They are playing 3-5-2. We have never seen this before.  We should be able to break down their backline, but they are pressing so hard in midfield that we can't get a a pass off quickly enough.
5.  We are down 1-0 with 5 minutes left.  They have parked the bus.  How do we get the ball into a dangerous area?
Etc. etc.


----------



## Lightning Red

Where did you get the info that every DA team plays a 4-3-3?


----------



## timbuck

Lightning Red said:


> Where did you get the info that every DA team plays a 4-3-3?


Maybe I have it confused with US Soccer Coaching Education guidelines.  D through A is all about the 4-3-3.


----------



## espola

timbuck said:


> What worries me a bit about DA is that US Soccer wants everyone to play a 4-3-3.  There is some good in having a uniform tactical shape across the US.  We definitely need a defined style of play.  But a "style" of play (IE - Possession, Direct, Counter Attack, Park the bus, run people over, etc) should be able to be played regardless of your formation/shape.
> Part of the "fun" of playing new opponents with varying styles is that is causes the players to have to think about solving problems.
> 1. The other team is playing 4 in the back with 2 holding mids-  We are having trouble playing the ball in central areas.  What can we do to try and overcome this?
> 2. The other team has 3 crazy fast forwards and plays a 4-3-3.  Our backline of 4 needs some help on the wing, so we need to get our wingers to drop deeper or they are going to carve us up.
> 3. We are facing a 4-4-2 with the opposing wide midfielders owning the width at midfield and playing thru balls to their  2 forwards who are making crossing runs.
> 4.  They are playing 3-5-2. We have never seen this before.  We should be able to break down their backline, but they are pressing so hard in midfield that we can't get a a pass off quickly enough.
> 5.  We are down 1-0 with 5 minutes left.  They have parked the bus.  How do we get the ball into a dangerous area?
> Etc. etc.


The DA "style" seems to assume that our team is always stronger than the opponents.  No need to adjust.


----------



## LASTMAN14

espola said:


> The DA "style" seems to assume that our team is always stronger than the opponents.  No need to adjust.


Unbelievable. Just Stop It.


----------



## Kicker4Life

espola said:


> The DA "style" seems to assume that our team is always stronger than the opponents.  No need to adjust.


And you assume you have a clue.....pleas just stop!


----------



## espola

Kicker4Life said:


> And you assume you have a clue.....pleas just stop!


What did I get wrong?


----------



## Chris Knight

davin said:


> Agreed. Good post. That was the whole point of my post, which was quoted above. The DA parent was claiming that "most top players" are in GDA based based on his knowledge of the players, and my argument was that the results of these preseason tournaments don't prove that to be the case. I don't get the relevance of "rose colored glasses" comment with regards to that discussion, but whatever.


Evenin' davin --

"rose colored glasses" came a couple pages back from shales regarding your misunderstanding of the of the origin of this poster's "most top players" inference that you've mentioned here ^.  Thought I'd help clear it up for ya since you may have missed out earlier ... 

It is 100% legitimate and objective to state that the majority of the traditionally top performing ECNL clubs went GDA prior to last year ... Hawks, Solar, SoCal Blues, Slammers, PDA, Real CO, FC Dallas, Eclipse, FC Stars, Crossfire, Tophat and Surf (clearly the most successful girls clubs both recently and over the course of ECNL history).  Given that those dozen clubs have had the most national success over the past 8 years + have had the lion's share of YNT call ups, wouldn't it be fair to say that the _majority_ of the 'best of the best' were participating in GDA last year ... I mean, any attempt to argue against that seems a bit silly wouldn't ya say?   Unless you are saying that in your mind (any many others posting here that are obviously a touch biased given this thread is within the confines of the "ECNL" category) that those premier clubs/teams/players (that just over a year ago were in the ECNL) are somehow lesser now since that they are participating in the GDA ... which, if is the case, would call into question simple logical reasoning wouldn't it?

And speaking of the "best of the best" (to address my earlier "California" comment) ... 

You referenced some results from Surf Cup -- First off, Surf Cup isn't a relevant measuring stick of ECNL vs GDA ... it represented a teeny sample (close to what ... 2%?) of the national landscape -- Granted that anyone outside of CA looking in like myself would find this easier to realize, so there's that.  Additionally, you mentioned some success that some of the top performing ECNL teams had against some of the GDA bottom halvers -- Turned out you're not only referring to one lil' group (the itty bitty '05s which are brand spanking new out there if I'm not mistaken), but just one team (one player really) as well ... c'mon now son.  And as fan2 quite rightly mentioned, sure ... there are some ECNL teams that are stronger than some GDA teams -- Not a rational soul would argue against that.

I understand it may be difficult to take this ^ all in, but whatever ... it is what it is, isn't it?


----------



## davin

Chris Knight said:


> Evenin' davin --
> 
> "rose colored glasses" came a couple pages back from shales regarding your misunderstanding of the of the origin of this poster's "most top players" inference that you've mentioned here ^.  Thought I'd help clear it up for ya since you may have missed out earlier ...
> 
> It is 100% legitimate and objective to state that the majority of the traditionally top performing ECNL clubs went GDA prior to last year ... Hawks, Solar, SoCal Blues, Slammers, PDA, Real CO, FC Dallas, Eclipse, FC Stars, Crossfire, Tophat and Surf (clearly the most successful girls clubs both recently and over the course of ECNL history).  Given that those dozen clubs have had the most national success over the past 8 years + have had the lion's share of YNT call ups, wouldn't it be fair to say that the _majority_ of the 'best of the best' were participating in GDA last year ... I mean, any attempt to argue against that seems a bit silly wouldn't ya say?   Unless you are saying that in your mind (any many others posting here that are obviously a touch biased given this thread is within the confines of the "ECNL" category) that those premier clubs/teams/players (that just over a year ago were in the ECNL) are somehow lesser now since that they are participating in the GDA ... which, if is the case, would call into question simple logical reasoning wouldn't it?
> 
> And speaking of the "best of the best" (to address my earlier "California" comment) ...
> 
> You referenced some results from Surf Cup -- First off, Surf Cup isn't a relevant measuring stick of ECNL vs GDA ... it represented a teeny sample (close to what ... 2%?) of the national landscape -- Granted that anyone outside of CA looking in like myself would find this easier to realize, so there's that.  Additionally, you mentioned some success that some of the top performing ECNL teams had against some of the GDA bottom halvers -- Turned out you're not only referring to one lil' group (the itty bitty '05s which are brand spanking new out there if I'm not mistaken), but just one team (one player really) as well ... c'mon now son.  And as fan2 quite rightly mentioned, sure ... there are some ECNL teams that are stronger than some GDA teams -- Not a rational soul would argue against that.
> 
> I understand it may be difficult to take this ^ all in, but whatever ... it is what it is, isn't it?


You know what's silly? Half the clubs you mentioned to make the case that GDA has the top players will no longer be playing in GDA this year and will be competing only in ECNL, and another one on your list(SoCal Blues) placed its 2 best teams(2001 and 2002) in ECNL last year and will continue to do so this year.

You know what else is silly? Your understanding that the dialogue for the last few pages on this thread was "only referring to one lil' group". LOL. I'm not going to rehash it here, but it was across multiple age groups in Silverlakes. Start a few pages back and check it out. Reading is fundamental, my friend.

And speaking of "rose colored glasses". I think you might be able to find them. Some dude in Texas has been wearing them. Might help to look in the mirror.


----------



## Soccerfan2

davin said:


> You know what's silly? Half the clubs you mentioned to make the case that GDA has the top players will no longer be playing in GDA this year and will be competing only in ECNL, and another one on your list(SoCal Blues) placed its 2 best teams(2001 and 2002) in ECNL last year and will continue to do so this year.
> 
> You know what else is silly? Your understanding that the dialogue for the last few pages on this thread was "only referring to one lil' group". LOL. I'm not going to rehash it here, but it was across multiple age groups in Silverlakes. Start a few pages back and check it out. Reading is fundamental, my friend.
> 
> And speaking of "rose colored glasses". I think you might be able to find them. Some dude in Texas has been wearing them. Might help to look in the mirror.


My discussion about where top players are WAS specific to the 05 group, because that’s the player pool I know. You made it broader, and when you did, you picked some sample results that were mostly indicative of MVLA 04’s strength. NorCal is one market where GDA is taking longer. It’s pointless to argue every point because GDA is a whopping year old and some people hear what they want to hear. Time will tell how the leagues will go.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Also, top players are not a large number. There are really just a handful in each age group. Comparing team results is not necessarily a reliable way to decide where they are. You might decide that’s the best data you have so far, but that doesn’t mean it’s valid.


----------



## davin

Soccerfan2 said:


> My discussion about where top players are WAS specific to the 05 group, because that’s the player pool I know. You made it broader, and when you did, you picked some sample results that were mostly indicative of MVLA 04’s strength. NorCal is one market where GDA is taking longer. It’s pointless to argue every point because GDA is a whopping year old and some people hear what they want to hear. Time will tell how the leagues will go.


This is the post on this thread that started the discussion about the results at Silverlakes across ALL age groups, and the relative strengths of GDA teams vs. ECNL teams. Did you somehow miss it?
http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/da-and-ecnl.5306/page-26#post-215759

You're backtracking now. You didn't mention the 05 group. You said "most top players have already gone GDA."
http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/da-and-ecnl.5306/page-31#post-216454


----------



## Simisoccerfan

It’s difficult to use Silverlakes and Surf to measure DA vs ECNL since this was the first event of the preseason.  Just per speculation but would think ECNL teams have more roster continuity at the older ages than DA teams since they are single age group teams vs dual age.  In our case we have 9 new girls on our team and I think that will make us stronger this season.  We beat both a ECNL teams we faced but our girls need to get use to playing together.


----------



## Soccerfan2

davin said:


> This is the post on this thread that started the discussion about the results at Silverlakes across ALL age groups, and the relative strengths of GDA teams vs. ECNL teams. Did you somehow miss it?
> http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/da-and-ecnl.5306/page-26#post-215759
> 
> You're backtracking now. You didn't mention the 05 group. You said "most top players have already gone GDA."
> http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/da-and-ecnl.5306/page-31#post-216454


“If you have a younger”. I know the 05 player pool very well and the 04 pool fairly well. Beyond those two age groups I don’t pay close attention.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Simisoccerfan said:


> It’s difficult to use Silverlakes and Surf to measure DA vs ECNL since this was the first event of the preseason.  Just per speculation but would think ECNL teams have more roster continuity at the older ages than DA teams since they are single age group teams vs dual age.  In our case we have 9 new girls on our team and I think that will make us stronger this season.  We beat both a ECNL teams we faced but our girls need to get use to playing together.


Yes. My daughter’s first DA game was a loss to a top ECNL team. It was her DA team’s first game ever together. I actually think that ECNL team would beat my daughter’s team more times than not, but given a few games under their belt they will certainly be competitive in a re-match. I also think that club will be DA before too long.


----------



## davin

Soccerfan2 said:


> “If you have a younger”. I know the 05 player pool very well and the 04 pool fairly well. Beyond those two age groups I don’t pay close attention.


You were asked a few pages ago on this thread how you came to the conclusion that the best players had already migrated to GDA in the younger age groups, including the 05's and 04's, and only answer is your "knowledge" of the age groups? Ummm. OK.


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## Soccerfan2

davin said:


> You were asked a few pages ago on this thread how you came to the conclusion that the best players had already migrated to GDA in the younger age groups, including the 05's and 04's pages ago, and only answer is your "knowledge" of the age groups? Ummm. OK.


Again, you don’t have to agree. I’m not speaking to the ECNL die hards. I’m speaking to parents who want to know more about DA and whose minds are open. I’d be curious to hear the opinions of others who actually know the age group and get to see NTC and U14 national pool up close.


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## LASTMAN14

Soccerfan2 said:


> Yes. My daughter’s first DA game was a loss to a top ECNL team. It was her DA team’s first game ever together. I actually think that ECNL team would beat my daughter’s team more times than not, but given a few games under their belt they will certainly be competitive in a re-match. I also think that club will be DA before too long.


Whose your daughter play for?


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## ToonArmy

Soccerfan2 said:


> Again, you don’t have to agree. I’m not speaking to the ECNL die hards. I’m speaking to parents who want to know more about DA and whose minds are open. I’d be curious to hear the opinions of others who actually know the age group and get to see NTC and U14 national pool up close.


If you are asking about 05s u14 my opinion is Surf and Slammers (last year pre academy this years lafc) are stand alone top 2 teams 1 is DA 1 is ECNL. The next best 6 to 10 teams are DA teams you can reasonably argue Heat into that group I do not know much about AZ clubs yet. Sucks for LAFC Slammers


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## broshark

Soccerfan2 said:


> Yes. My daughter’s first DA game was a loss to a top ECNL team. It was her DA team’s first game ever together. I actually think that ECNL team would beat my daughter’s team more times than not, but given a few games under their belt they will certainly be competitive in a re-match. I also think that club will be DA before too long.


This is a realistic view.  There are many players on the top ECNL teams who could be on DA teams but have chosen not to.  In fact, in San Diego anyway, what was to be the Surf 05 ECNL team is arguably the 2nd best team in SD, ahead of Albion and Galaxy SD DA.  Sharks ECNL is in the same league as Albion and Galaxy SD DA as well, and there are a handful of SCDSL/SDDA teams that can keep up as well.

I think the point lost here, even though it's stated repeatedly, is that there are only a handful of truly elite players in SoCal, despite the huge number of excellent players around.  Those elite players can be found on a handful of teams right now - some DA, some ECNL and a random few at the local level.  DA and ECNL are different options for good players.  The rest is old people trying to feel good about their kids' success.


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## Gokicksomegrass

LASTMAN14 said:


> Whose your daughter play for?


Don't know you, but do you expect an answer from this passive aggressive question which is
meant to silence people by threatening to out their kid to the public? 

I will give you where my kid plays for:
1. A team where everyone tries to get along and try to like each other. Coach will not allow disrespect.
2. A well-respected and honest coach who believes in my player and believes in development at the cost of winning.
3. Parents who are mostly well-balanced and supportive of the entire team.
4. Close enough drive where we can have a normal family life.
5. My player loves to play and is truly developing as a player and as a person.

If this is not your team, where your kid plays really means little.


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## LASTMAN14

Gokicksomegrass said:


> Don't know you, but do you expect an answer from this passive aggressive question which is
> meant to silence people by threatening to out their kid to the public?
> 
> I will give you where my kid plays for:
> 1. A team where everyone tries to get along and try to like each other. Coach will not allow disrespect.
> 2. A well-respected and honest coach who believes in my player and believes in development at the cost of winning.
> 3. Parents who are mostly well-balanced and supportive of the entire team.
> 4. Close enough drive where we can have a normal family life.
> 5. My player loves to play and is truly developing as a player and as a person.
> 
> If this is not your team, where your kid plays really means little.


You took a simple and inquisitive question way to far. I was interested because this parent is an 05.  And I having an 05 like to reach out to other posters. No wonder this individual PM’d.


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## Kicker4Life

Gokicksomegrass said:


> Don't know you, but do you expect an answer from this passive aggressive question which is
> meant to silence people by threatening to out their kid to the public?
> 
> I will give you where my kid plays for:
> 1. A team where everyone tries to get along and try to like each other. Coach will not allow disrespect.
> 2. A well-respected and honest coach who believes in my player and believes in development at the cost of winning.
> 3. Parents who are mostly well-balanced and supportive of the entire team.
> 4. Close enough drive where we can have a normal family life.
> 5. My player loves to play and is truly developing as a player and as a person.
> 
> If this is not your team, where your kid plays really means little.


I think you have misinterpreted  Lastman’s intentions....not all of us are looking to argue broad generalizations using such small cross sections.


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## El Clasico

Gokicksomegrass said:


> Don't know you, but do you expect an answer from this passive aggressive question which is
> meant to silence people by threatening to out their kid to the public?
> 
> I will give you where my kid plays for:
> 1. A team where everyone tries to get along and try to like each other. Coach will not allow disrespect.
> 2. A well-respected and honest coach who believes in my player and believes in development at the cost of winning.
> 3. Parents who are mostly well-balanced and supportive of the entire team.
> 4. Close enough drive where we can have a normal family life.
> 5. My player loves to play and is truly developing as a player and as a person.
> 
> If this is not your team, where your kid plays really means little.


Talk about missing your target...
While you clearly got LM pegged wrong, you sure gave us some insight into you.


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## Sheriff Joe

Gokicksomegrass said:


> Don't know you, but do you expect an answer from this passive aggressive question which is
> meant to silence people by threatening to out their kid to the public?
> 
> I will give you where my kid plays for:
> 1. A team where everyone tries to get along and try to like each other. Coach will not allow disrespect.
> 2. A well-respected and honest coach who believes in my player and believes in development at the cost of winning.
> 3. Parents who are mostly well-balanced and supportive of the entire team.
> 4. Close enough drive where we can have a normal family life.
> 5. My player loves to play and is truly developing as a player and as a person.
> 
> If this is not your team, where your kid plays really means little.


Reminds me of a song,
*Jim Reeves - Snowflake - YouTube*
▶ 2:09


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## Chris Knight

davin said:


> You know what's silly? Half the clubs you mentioned to make the case that GDA has the top players will no longer be playing in GDA this year and will be competing only in ECNL, and another one on your list(SoCal Blues) placed its 2 best teams(2001 and 2002) in ECNL last year and will continue to do so this year.
> 
> You know what else is silly? Your understanding that the dialogue for the last few pages on this thread was "only referring to one lil' group". LOL. I'm not going to rehash it here, but it was across multiple age groups in Silverlakes. Start a few pages back and check it out. Reading is fundamental, my friend.
> 
> And speaking of "rose colored glasses". I think you might be able to find them. Some dude in Texas has been wearing them. Might help to look in the mirror.


Love, love, _love_ this ^ davin ... 

Ya know ... We should touch on the value of reading and how "fundamental" it really is.  You'd figure that if you were gonna spend this much time engaging my stuff you'd at least read through my, what ... 4 posts in total?, here in the past couple days.  Literally wrote "Not to say that a handful haven't now gone back, but ..." .  I mean, C'mon dude ... Ya couldn't be painting yourself as more of a blind faith "All inner" here, could ya?

And I'm absolutely happy to admit that, yes ... I'm a newbie to this particular thread ... Haven't been kickin' it here as it seems you have  --  came in just a couple days ago reading here and there, and interjecting when compelled.  Other than your lil' blurb on page 30 or so mentioning Silverlakes, that's all I saw regarding that event.  That being said however ... A couple of my players did happen to attend the Thanksgiving Showcase there last Nov and, while I'm sure it was going on somewhere (maybe in some auxiliary division on some field off in the corner that some Texan (I am from CA by the way) wouldn't know about), I saw or heard of exactly _zero_ GDA vs ECNL comp going on ... sooo ... anyway ...  

Again, I have to say -- very "Californian" of ya.  Regardless of any lil' ole event that happens out in your neck o' the woods in some irrelevant (to this point) match or  or two, it lends exactly squat to your cute little argument when it comes to the grand scheme here bub (it is adorable though ) --

BTW davin ... I have three kids ... and only one of em participates in the GDA.  Ya care to take a stab at where the others play there junior?

Guess I'll see ya out there ; )


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## davin

Chris Knight said:


> Love, love, _love_ this ^ davin ...
> 
> Ya know ... We should touch on the value of reading and how "fundamental" it really is.  You'd figure that if you were gonna spend this much time engaging my stuff you'd at least read through my, what ... 4 posts in total?, here in the past couple days.  Literally wrote "Not to say that a handful haven't now gone back, but ..." .  I mean, C'mon dude ... Ya couldn't be painting yourself as more of a blind faith "All inner" here, could ya?
> 
> And I'm absolutely happy to admit that, yes ... I'm a newbie to this particular thread ... Haven't been kickin' it here as it seems you have  --  came in just a couple days ago reading here and there, and interjecting when compelled.  Other than your lil' blurb on page 30 or so mentioning Silverlakes, that's all I saw regarding that event.  That being said however ... A couple of my players did happen to attend the Thanksgiving Showcase there last Nov and, while I'm sure it was going on somewhere (maybe in some auxiliary division on some field off in the corner that some Texan (I am from CA by the way) wouldn't know about), I saw or heard of exactly _zero_ GDA vs ECNL comp going on ... sooo ... anyway ...
> 
> Again, I have to say -- very "Californian" of ya.  Regardless of any lil' ole event that happens out in your neck o' the woods in some irrelevant (to this point) match or  or two, it lends exactly squat to your cute little argument when it comes to the grand scheme here bub (it is adorable though ) --
> 
> BTW davin ... I have three kids ... and only one of em participates in the GDA.  Ya care to take a stab at where the others play there junior?
> 
> Guess I'll see ya out there ; )


LOL. I don't understand Texan, but I'm imagining the English translation is something like, "I don't really have an argument to make, but I'll say some irrelevant stuff to the California guy's argument and be a smartass with some cute Texas colloquial-speak to pretend like I'm winning."


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## Chris Knight

davin said:


> LOL. I don't understand Texan, but I'm imagining the English translation is something like, "I don't really have an argument to make, but I'll say some irrelevant stuff to the California guy's argument and be a smartass with some cute Texas colloquial-speak to pretend like I'm winning."


Ouch!  Rough response ^ to a buncha truth ... 

And, I think I can speak for all of the smart people here when I say that, we feel for ya big guy.  

But keep on keepin' on davi, and again ... I guess I'll see ya out there --


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## davin

Chris Knight said:


> Ouch!  Rough response ^ to a buncha truth ...
> 
> And, I think I can speak for all of the smart people here when I say that, we feel for ya big guy.
> 
> But keep on keepin' on davi, and again ... I guess I'll see ya out there --


Not sure who the "we" are, and why anybody would need to feel for me. Life's good. And yes, I will keep on keepin' on.(sh!t, i'm beginning to sound like a cute little Texan). As the kids say, "Bye, boy."


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## MarkM

MakeAPlay said:


> My player’s team only has one GDA player regardless of year committed and they have three 2021 recruits already. I only see 2 GDA players for Stanford 2019 or more current.  Any decent player can get committed.  There are 321+ D1 schools and many times that if you include all of the other levels.  Ask yourself where the top players (the ones going to the top 10-16 schools) are playing.  Now look at the top 5 or 6 programs.  Where are those players going.  TDS rankings mean nothing.  Big money offers from top schools tell you who the best players are.  My kid was like the 24th ranked player in SoCal in her graduating class but has done more than everyone above her including two on her team that aren’t starters whereas she has started every game and been with the first XI on her team since the first summer practice prior to her freshman year.  The best players often fly under the radar because good teams can hide a player’s deficiencies that get exposed in college.


@MakeAPlay, I looked at the numbers for 2021.  Here are the DA numbers for commitments in TopDrawer's current top 15:

4 out of 5 –Stanford
1 out of 3 – UCLA
6 out of 6 – North Carolina
0 out of 0 – Florida
0 out of 0 – Virginia
1 out of 1 – Penn State
0 out of 0 – South Carolina
0 out of 0 – Florida State
2 out of 4 – Texas A&M
4 out of 4 - USC
2 out of 2 - Duke
0 out of 0 - Princeton
0 out of 1 - Santa Clara
0 out of 1 - UCF
1 out of 2 - Tennessee

I think the numbers you directed me to support my point that the talent flocked to DA in the lower age groups.  Maybe they will flock back to ECNL, but this is where the talent was last year at this age group.  Also, at least a few of the non-DA players that committed weren't on ECNL teams either.   

@shales1002 - I noticed something odd when looking at the USC commits for 2022.  Is there something you want to share?  If true, congrats.  They are accumulating a ton of talent in those younger age groups at USC.  But more importantly, are you going to be able to stay friends with @MakeAPlay?


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## Nefutous

@shales congrats!  I was up there last week for a special tour with my senior ds (being recruited for a non-sports related team).  It definitely made an impression on my 04s as well and I was impressed with the academics. I know you and your dd have your priorities straight, congrats!


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## futboldad1

MarkM said:


> @MakeAPlay, I looked at the numbers for 2021.  Here are the DA numbers for commitments in TopDrawer's current top 15:
> 
> 4 out of 5 –Stanford
> 1 out of 3 – UCLA
> 6 out of 6 – North Carolina
> 0 out of 0 – Florida
> 0 out of 0 – Virginia
> 1 out of 1 – Penn State
> 0 out of 0 – South Carolina
> 0 out of 0 – Florida State
> 2 out of 4 – Texas A&M
> 4 out of 4 - USC
> 2 out of 2 - Duke
> 0 out of 0 - Princeton
> 0 out of 1 - Santa Clara
> 0 out of 1 - UCF
> 1 out of 2 - Tennessee
> 
> I think the numbers you directed me to support my point that the talent flocked to DA in the lower age groups.  Maybe they will flock back to ECNL, but this is where the talent was last year at this age group.  Also, at least a few of the non-DA players that committed weren't on ECNL teams either.


Those numbers are not entirely accurate. Just an FYI on that.


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## Soccer43

futboldad1 said:


> Those numbers are not entirely accurate. Just an FYI on that.


If you are using Top Drawer lists of commitments then some of those numbers don't seem correct.    Texas A&M has three players listed and only 1 of those is DA.  Of the 4 for USC one is an ECNL player.  For Stanford I only see 4 players listed and 3 were DA.  

It gets a bit confusing with the clubs that have moved back to ECNL.  I would guess that everyone would count them as a commit on the DA side as they likely committed this past year as a Freshman while on a DA team???  There are about 8-9 players that will now be back to ECNL.  

Even I am getting bored with this conversation.  US Soccer rolled out this new program and upset the youth soccer arena over the past few years with so many changes.  The message was - if you want to be on the most elite team and have the best coaching and training and have an opportunity for the national team call ups then you need to go to one of the DA teams.  It isn't playing out like that and the dust is settling.


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## GoWest

Soccer43 said:


> Even I am getting bored with this conversation.


Boom!!!


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## jojosoccer

As for USNT U20 fauling to advance....those players played in ECNL or competitive leagues in their home areas.
USSDA was not formed on the girls side at their youth playing time.
We have only had  1 year of GDA.
Give it a few years and the DA teams may become the stronger league. 
As for now, ECNL is just as competitive offering players excellent competition and opportunity to play in HS.
But I did notice last HS season was much weaker due to losing DA players.
(Except SM and Jserra)


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## shales1002

jojosoccer said:


> As for USNT U20 fauling to advance....those players played in ECNL or competitive leagues in their home areas.
> USSDA was not formed on the girls side at their youth playing time.
> We have only had  1 year of GDA.
> Give it a few years and the DA teams may become the stronger league.
> As for now, ECNL is just as competitive offering players excellent competition and opportunity to play in HS.
> But I did notice last HS season was much weaker due to losing DA players.
> (Except SM and Jserra)


I believe the argument has been that the failure is a result of not selecting the best players and coaching staff available regardless of league affiliation. USSF is quick to point out the number of GDA players on the roster.    

But you are right. Time will tell how this will all play out.


----------

