# Club soccer finances



## jojon (Jun 8, 2022)

I am new in club soccer so please correct my assumption below since most of you have been in this for years. I could be completely wrong, just trying to understand.
Most clubs seem to charge around $2500 annually in LA/OC/SD.
My assumption:
1) $1000 roughly for SOCAL league and state cup.
2) $750 to the club.
3) $750 to the coach.
A team of 15 (younger kids) would generate $11250 (12x750) for the coach per year.
A club with 10 teams would get $112500 per year. (Club fixed cost are training fields, I really have no idea how much, could vary depend on the city/schools)

Do I miss anything? I am trying to see if there is a way of reducing cost other than AYSO model with volunteer and free training fields.
Obviously this is for local clubs in Flight 1-3, MLS academies and national clubs like Surf may have more complicated structure.


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## galaxydad (Jun 8, 2022)

The league fee and state cup fee seems real high. If I recall the SoCal fee is like $750 per team not player and the state cup fee would be about $1000 per team. There are people with the exact numbers that can clean my memory up. 

Ref fees are missing- about $100 a kid is normal. Uniforms fees? Player cards fee? 

your $2500 a player price is about right.

coaches make between 10-20 thousand per team. Boys coaches usually make less that the girls as they usually give major price breaks to their low income players (sometimes they play for almost nothing)


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## TeamDadJokes (Jun 8, 2022)

Should also factor in field costs, admin fees, liability insurance. Fields aren’t cheap and is suspect this to be a major driving force in cost. The number one resource clubs are always trying to gain is field space, to the point that I’ve heard of clubs buying out other clubs just to have the field access in those areas.

In regards to salaries, I believe the range is closer to $8k on the low end that some coaches makes depending on the age group (I’m thinking for Youngers like 7v7 and etc). For olders the estimate holds true.


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## timbuck (Jun 8, 2022)

Our cost this year increased by $800.  Not sure why.


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## Messi>CR7 (Jun 8, 2022)

@galaxydad is correct about #1.  Your assumption for the league and the State Cup is way too high.  CSL's application fee according to its website is $450 per team.  SoCal League's State Cup for the youngest age groups is $700 per team last year.

Fining an affordable field for regular use is indeed the biggest problem.  I've heard OCGP is about $150 per hour.  You often see the younger age teams take up 1/2 or even just 1/4 of a field.  Our elementary school has soccer goals and I see club teams use them incognito once a while, but the grass is often >4 inches long.


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## NorCalDad (Jun 8, 2022)

jojon said:


> I am new in club soccer so please correct my assumption below since most of you have been in this for years. I could be completely wrong, just trying to understand.
> Most clubs seem to charge around $2500 annually in LA/OC/SD.
> My assumption:
> 1) $1000 roughly for SOCAL league and state cup.
> ...


Yeah this seems quite a bit off from our club.  The majority of our money goes towards coaches.  As someone else pointed out State Cup and League fees are shared amongst the team and are minuscule in comparison to the other charges.  Coaches probably make $60-80/hr if that helps in your calculations.  That may seem like a lot, but they need 3+ teams to make it a full time gig.   Club fees cover fields, financial aid players, liability insurance, admin, etc.  You will also have tournament fees which adds variability in the total cost depending on how many your team participates in.


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## zebrafish (Jun 8, 2022)

If you're interested in financials of these clubs it can be quite interesting to look at their "non-profit" tax returns on public databases. 
I haven't looked recently, but the club director at the Blades -> Irvine Slammers -> LAGOC -> Liverpool International SoCal was pulling in >$300k/yr maybe 5+ years ago. This club also cashed a giant check as part of the pandemic small business payout (also available on public databases).


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## jojon (Jun 9, 2022)

Thanks for the responses. I received 3 contracts/offers and currently trying to decide. I am curious especially since the prices are very similar between 3 different clubs. Since the fields are the most expensive item, perhaps I can continue to search another area (but with gas price now, financially does not make sense to drive).
BTW, the prices given to me do not include uniform but referee is included. Do you think coach pay varies? One of the coach is a friend at local church. He has a well paid full time job so money is no object, just a hobby for him and the club cost is still the same. 
So I revise my annual estimate:
1) $250 roughly for SOCAL league and state cup (including referee fees).
2) $1500 to the club (maybe $800 for fields?)
3) $750 to the coach. 

So a 15-kids team may generate $10000 for the club and $12000 for fields+insurance? The coach gets around $10k/yr. 
If the estimate is close then I don't see that I have a lot of options other than AYSO All Star and the like. City leagues level and quality are a lot lower.
It is not a lot of money for club owner and coach so within current setting, I don't think cheaper clubs can exist. Perhaps this explains why local AYSO all-star charge $1500/yr even though the coach is volunteer ("free").

Actually I am hoping that someone can provide info that some clubs get "free" fields or subsidized by the city thus can charge less.


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## Soccerdad_562_ (Jun 9, 2022)

Usually the cost goes something like this.

Club Fee (Covers Practice & Game fields, Insurance and Players Card)
Coaches Fee
League & Tournament Fee (state cup, tournaments team is going to do and ref fee 
Uniforms (usually not budgeted in and separate)


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## VanMan (Jun 9, 2022)

zebrafish said:


> If you're interested in financials of these clubs it can be quite interesting to look at their "non-profit" tax returns on public databases.


This.  Propublica is probably the easiest to navigate Free Viewer...

@jojon 









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Filter by state then use parts of a name for a search, as many clubs actually have slightly (or totally) different legal names than what the DBA.  Once you find the entity you're looking for you can see the top level summaries.  To get detail you need to open the from 990.  Expense categories are shown in Part IX, but can be somewhat opaque.

For 9 out of 10 clubs, the largest expense will be coach fees with typically the second largest being fields.  

If you're really trying to get to the true cost of playing for a particular club, you need to ask what is or isn't included in the club fees vs team fees vs directly out of pocket.  It's changed quite a bit over the years.


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## Larzby (Jun 10, 2022)

jojon said:


> Thanks for the responses. I received 3 contracts/offers and currently trying to decide. I am curious especially since the prices are very similar between 3 different clubs. Since the fields are the most expensive item, perhaps I can continue to search another area (but with gas price now, financially does not make sense to drive).
> BTW, the prices given to me do not include uniform but referee is included. Do you think coach pay varies? One of the coach is a friend at local church. He has a well paid full time job so money is no object, just a hobby for him and the club cost is still the same.
> So I revise my annual estimate:
> 1) $250 roughly for SOCAL league and state cup (including referee fees).
> ...


Find a team where your kid is the best player and tell them you need a partial scholarship.


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## Grace T. (Jun 10, 2022)

jojon said:


> Actually I am hoping that someone can provide info that some clubs get "free" fields or subsidized by the city thus can charge less.


Some clubs don't get "free" fields but they get priority access (first dibs on when and where they want to use the city's fields) to the fields at discount rates.  They fall in one of two categories....clubs which are engaged in a social activism message (selling their message about giving bored teens who would otherwise be a problem a place off the streets) and clubs that revamp the fields at their cost and then give it back to the city.  Usually in both instances, there is a political relationship in place (backing for the parks and rec or city council slots).  In the first, it generally has to service a poor community and consist of almost exclusively local players.  In the second, I'm aware of about 3 situations in and around the Camarillo area where that occurred.   The second situation is a lot of the AYSO fields because in the 70s and 80s when they were building these big soccer parks, it was AYSO that stepped up to contribute money to build the facilities.

The higher level you go, though, you begin to cluster around several venues for actual games the such as Galway Downs in Temecula, Silverlakes in Norco, Lancaster Soccer Center in Lancaster and Surf Sports Park in Del Mar.  There's no avoiding the driving at that point, at least for games/tournaments, and they are mostly private soccer fields that can gouge you both on the field rental and the parking.


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## jojon (Jun 10, 2022)

VanMan said:


> This.  Propublica is probably the easiest to navigate Free Viewer...
> 
> @jojon
> 
> ...


I just reviewed 3 clubs in OC. You are absolutely correct. 50% out of total revenue goes to coaches, surprisingly only 5% goes to field expenses.


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## timbuck (Jun 10, 2022)

Some clubs do a budget per team... Some clubs pool all funds.

Budget per team-  The more players you have- you either make more or you can charge less.  The coach typically picks the tournaments to play in.  They can use extra funds for team equipment, additional training, futsal/indoor rental, etc.

Budget per club-  Each team is told by the club what tournaments to play and what to spend money on.


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## jojon (Jun 10, 2022)

Here is an example of what I found on ProPublica, total revenue is $7m (2018 return)


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## VanMan (Jun 10, 2022)

jojon said:


> I just reviewed 3 clubs in OC. You are absolutely correct. 50% out of total revenue goes to coaches, surprisingly only 5% goes to field expenses.


Depends on the club, area, resources, history, etc. re fields, as @Grace T. pointed out.  

As for the 990 you found, $7MM is a big number for a club.  Guessing they have multiple locations/don't run the franchise model like most of the other bigs do and roll the satellite location revenues to the parent.  That would also create a lot of admin burden that would need to be covered at the parent too.  They may also be rolling the team fees in their returns depending on how the banking relationships are being managed.

"Program Expense" is especially opaque for these forms, which is saying something.


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Jun 12, 2022)

jojon said:


> Thanks for the responses. I received 3 contracts/offers and currently trying to decide. I am curious especially since the prices are very similar between 3 different clubs. Since the fields are the most expensive item, perhaps I can continue to search another area (but with gas price now, financially does not make sense to drive).
> BTW, the prices given to me do not include uniform but referee is included. Do you think coach pay varies? One of the coach is a friend at local church. He has a well paid full time job so money is no object, just a hobby for him and the club cost is still the same.
> So I revise my annual estimate:
> 1) $250 roughly for SOCAL league and state cup (including referee fees).
> ...


Think $2500-3000/yr is pretty accurate for youngers. It'll go up for every age group. You also haven't added any tournament fees + lodging for coach if out of town. Could add up to $2-500 or more depending on how many tournaments are played and how many out of town. 

The total $2500 is fine but SOCAL league and state cup is way more than $250. So you'd have to increase that and decrease club fee if you want to be accurate in your breakdown. Not that it really matters. A total is a total, no matter how broken down. 

I've heard that some LA clubs have smaller club fees to cater for lower socio economic demographics. But with "inflation", every club I know increased their fees like $400-500/yr across the board.


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## Code (Jun 13, 2022)

A lot of clubs have profiles in Candid Guidestar.  If they are using the software, it will show their Gross Receipts from the IRS Master File prior to any deductions or write offs.  The Gross for some clubs it 2-3 times what is reported on Form 990.  If you have money to subscribe you could get more detailed info.  The free account search just shows basic info.






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