# Tournament fees?



## BBJ (Jul 7, 2022)

What is a reasonable fee to pay as a guest to play in surf cup? This would be an individual player’s portion of the tournament fee and coach’s cost ( assume coach is not from San Diego so would presumably need to cover a player’s share of coach’s hotel, meals and other costs). But NOT including player’s own transportation, hotel, meals etc. I’m assuming 16 players per team. 

Would be intrested to hear what others have been charged or would think is reasonable.
Thanks!


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## Messi>CR7 (Jul 7, 2022)

$1,800 (tourney fee) + $900 ($300/night hotel x 3) = $2,700
Per player for a team of 16 = $169


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## Larzby (Jul 8, 2022)

Guest Players don't pay anything in my experience


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## Gkdad1 (Jul 8, 2022)

Guest players usually don't pay anything


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 8, 2022)

Gkdad1 said:


> Guest players usually don't pay anything


Goalies guest players shouldn’t pay. All others should pay something even if it’s a small amount


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## TeamDadJokes (Jul 8, 2022)

Guest players don’t pay for tournaments they’re guesting in


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## Eagle33 (Jul 8, 2022)

BBJ said:


> What is a reasonable fee to pay as a guest to play in surf cup? This would be an individual player’s portion of the tournament fee and coach’s cost ( assume coach is not from San Diego so would presumably need to cover a player’s share of coach’s hotel, meals and other costs). But NOT including player’s own transportation, hotel, meals etc. I’m assuming 16 players per team.
> 
> Would be intrested to hear what others have been charged or would think is reasonable.
> Thanks!


As some mentioned that guest players shouldn't be paying is a complete nonsense. 
Only way for someone not paying would be that team is short and desperatly seeking a guest player to even make it to the event. 
In all other instances every player should be sharing team fee.
In a example of a Surf Cup, which is very expensive tournament, sharing your posrtion of the team fee is only fair.


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## crush (Jul 8, 2022)

Eagle33 said:


> As some mentioned that guest players shouldn't be paying is a complete nonsense.
> Only way for someone not paying would be that team is short and desperatly seeking a guest player to even make it to the event.
> In all other instances every player should be sharing team fee.
> In a example of a Surf Cup, which is very expensive tournament, sharing your posrtion of the team fee is only fair.


When my dd was 6th grader, she was "loaned" out to other clubs for her goals. If you save goals or scores goals as a guest, no pay to play....lol!!!


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## Eagle33 (Jul 8, 2022)

crush said:


> When my dd was 6th grader, she was "loaned" out to other clubs for her goals. If you save goals or scores goals as a guest, no pay to play....lol!!!


In those days Surf Cup was less than now!


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## timbuck (Jul 8, 2022)

A guest player should always offer to pay.  Some clubs will already have it budgeted and won't accept funds.  Some run a little thinner and will appreciate it.
$50 is the minimum to offer if a small/medium local tournament.
$100 for a larger tournament. (Surf Cup, etc).

If its an event with college scouts and a team flyer/program is handed out- Guest player should also be included in this.

I dont think a guest should have to kick in for coach expenses.


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## crush (Jul 8, 2022)

timbuck said:


> *A guest player should always offer to pay.*


What if the guest player has no money to offer?  What if both parents lost their jobs or are just super poor and can;t afford the hotels, dinners, team fees, coaches per diem and tournament fees?  I see it like this. If a club is short handed or short on goals and invites any "guest" then it should be free. If parents have money, then of course they should pay to play like the rest.  Like Eagle said, it was way cheaper 6 years ago and the teams my kid guested for had plenty of money to cover the the weekend games and team dinners.


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## TeamDadJokes (Jul 8, 2022)

Maybe the etiquette changes at the older age groups, but I’ve never asked a guest player for tournament fees nor have I ever been asked to pay for DD to guest play with another team. These tournaments are already budgeted based on the number of active players on the teams roster.

Guests are guests for a reason. It may be to try and recruit or it may to help win the tournament or it’s to help with subs being short handed. But if someone asked me to pay for my DD to guest, I’d say no thanks. We are guest playing to help that team out and for your kid to get some touches. We have no skin in the game.

My comments are based off the the 5 years of club experience as a parent and team manager. I’m sure others probably know better who have been around longer as this is our first year at 11 v 11.


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## espola (Jul 8, 2022)

I saw it go both ways -- from nothing, including the loan of a uniform to assessment of a 1/nth share of the total costs, including coach's travel and perdiem.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 8, 2022)

TeamDadJokes said:


> Maybe the etiquette changes at the older age groups, but I’ve never asked a guest player for tournament fees nor have I ever been asked to pay for DD to guest play with another team. These tournaments are already budgeted based on the number of active players on the teams roster.
> 
> Guests are guests for a reason. It may be to try and recruit or it may to help win the tournament or it’s to help with subs being short handed. But if someone asked me to pay for my DD to guest, I’d say no thanks. We are guest playing to help that team out and for your kid to get some touches. We have no skin in the game.
> 
> My comments are based off the the 5 years of club experience as a parent and team manager. I’m sure others probably know better who have been around longer as this is our first year at 11 v 11.


There is a cost difference between youngers and olders. 
As you said, if the team shorthanded or just wants to win and needs a player, thats that.
Question was about Surf Cup. For this particular tournament players ussually looking to guest, not teams loooking for players.


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## crush (Jul 8, 2022)

Eagle33 said:


> There is a cost difference between youngers and olders.
> As you said, if the team shorthanded or just wants to win and needs a player, thats that.
> Question was about Surf Cup. For this particular tournament players ussually looking to guest, not teams loooking for players.


Great catch Eagle.  If you put your kid on the guest list to be picked up by another club then you need to pay to play 100%.  I guess I read into this post wrong.  My kid only guested at Surf Thanksgiving and not Surf Cup. Does that count? Her teams were always playing in Surf Cup with no guest.


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## Rockinchair (Jul 8, 2022)

the fun ones are when the team charges some guest players and not others…DD on an 08 (U13 last year)team, two 08 guest players paid an arbitrary $250/ea and two 09s didn’t pay a dime…this for president‘s cup regionals


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## jojon (Jul 8, 2022)

I am a little bit confused with this so called "guest". Why a team wants to invite more players? If a team already has 1-2 player on the bench, it should be enough.
Is it really that important to win? I thought the goal of "pay to play" is to play.


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## crush (Jul 8, 2022)

jojon said:


> I am a little bit confused with this so called "guest". Why a team wants to invite more players? If a team already has 1-2 player on the bench, it should be enough.
> Is it really that important to win? I thought the goal of "pay to play" is to play.


"Pay to play to play and win" when you play, is icing on the cake and most parents and clubs want to win at all cost. I don't like the guesting stuff and I wish I had said no to the invites back in the day. Some think I was chasing medals because I never won any as a kid, which is BS. I was actually flattered and honored Docs wanted my kid to play. It rubbed people the wrong way and I see that now. Slammers borrowed three top Surf players to win the Cerritos Memorial and we lost to them in the finals and we were pissed off losers that day and the forum was going crazy that Slammers would pull such a stunt.  It was 6-0 at the half and my kid and another kid were told they need to play better. They already had the best team on paper and still needed to bring in the ringers.  It was classic banter at old forum days.


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## Code (Jul 8, 2022)

In 8 years of soccer, my DD has played as a guest many times (maybe 20).  Her team has had guest players probably 30 times.  Never has the guest been asked to pay anything.  Tournaments are part of the team budget, and every player on the team payed their share regardless of them attending or not.


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## Soccerdad_562_ (Jul 8, 2022)

Depends when you mean guest player but the general rule like most have answer is you don't pay anything.


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## Larzby (Jul 9, 2022)

To be clear...I never said guests shouldn't pay ... only that they don't- at least in my experience.  Teams and families can do whatever they want.
In fact, the first time I asked kids to guest, I asked for $50.  The parents were fine with that.  Then my kids started being asked to guest for other teams we weren't asked to pay for anything, even when I offered, so I stopped asking our guests to pay.


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## soccermom74 (Jul 11, 2022)

Older DD has never paid to guest play, and she has played in multiple "big" tournaments for other teams.  When our teams have asked players to guest play, we have never collected money.  All players on the team are responsible for the fees, regardless of attendance.


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## crush (Jul 11, 2022)

soccermom74 said:


> Older DD has never paid to guest play, and she has played in multiple "big" tournaments for other teams.  When our teams have asked players to guest play, we have never collected money.  All players on the team are responsible for the fees, regardless of attendance.


100%. One year I had some extra $$$ for once and I treated the new fellas I met to a round of drinks at the Pub after a big win.  It was a gesture of thanks. When I back to my real Soccer Family I was sat down by the Doc and integrated for over 30 minutes and told club hoping is not right and the college coaches don;t like it and he put me on warning.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 12, 2022)

soccermom74 said:


> Older DD has never paid to guest play, and she has played in multiple "big" tournaments for other teams.  When our teams have asked players to guest play, we have never collected money.  All players on the team are responsible for the fees, regardless of attendance.


Can I borrow some money from you? I won't be giving it back.
I have to pay over $200 for Surf Cup for not attendiing???


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## NorCalDad (Jul 12, 2022)

Eagle33 said:


> Can I borrow some money from you? I won't be giving it back.
> I have to pay over $200 for Surf Cup for not attendiing???


I've never seen a guest player pay for tournament fees and I've been on both sides with my kids.  Generally speaking the team that needs the guest player needs the player more than the player needs to go to the tournament.


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## timbuck (Jul 12, 2022)

Eagle33 said:


> Can I borrow some money from you? I won't be giving it back.
> I have to pay over $200 for Surf Cup for not attendiing???


Sounds almost as good as "Hey dad, can I have $2,000 to play a few days of soccer in Seattle?  And then if we win, another $2,000 to go to Virginia."


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## crush (Jul 12, 2022)

Eagle33 said:


> Can I borrow some money from you? I won't be giving it back.
> I have to pay over $200 for Surf Cup for not attendiing???


Don't pay unless you already signed that you would. These Docs are tricky and the TM is the bill collector. Can't piss them off because they talk to the coaches and will tell them your not good at pay to play and will pass up your dd.  I had a TM hound me for weeks trying to collect my missed tournament fees. I sent her a copy of my -$99 in one of my accounts and she left me alone. That's why it's so hard to keep up with the Joneses in Elite soccer. Today, there is no way I could afford this Elite league of the rich only that can pay to play.  $25,000 to pay to play travel ball circuit. This is bad for 99% of us, just saying.


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## crush (Jul 12, 2022)

timbuck said:


> Sounds almost as good as "Hey dad, can I have $2,000 to play a few days of soccer in Seattle?  And then if we win, another $2,000 to go to Virginia."


Add another $3,000 at least to have mom and dad come watch too.  $10,000+ to play championship soccer in our country.


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## crush (Jul 12, 2022)

timbuck said:


> Sounds almost as good as "Hey dad, can I have $2,000 to play a few days of soccer in Seattle?  And then if we win, another $2,000 to go to Virginia."


Hey coach, no one will say I'm lying either or full of bull shit about how expensive it is in todays soccer world. It's actually more I bet because if you got $10,000 to throw down for Elite soccer, you got another $10K to go first class and eat out at all the top Steak places.  I know it's wrong of me for probing and asking questions about money and it's none of my damn business and for sure none of my business asking how much soccer scholarship a player got, minus the 4.5 and 1400 SAT. I swear youth soccer at the highest level is like a religion or a cult. You have to pay to be a member.


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## Nextbigthing (Jul 12, 2022)

crush said:


> Hey coach, no one will say I'm lying either or full of bull shit about how expensive it is in todays soccer world. It's actually more I bet because if you got $10,000 to throw down for Elite soccer, you got another $10K to go first class and eat out at all the top Steak places.  I know it's wrong of me for probing and asking questions about money and it's none of my damn business and for sure none of my business asking how much soccer scholarship a player got, minus the 4.5 and 1400 SAT. I swear youth soccer at the highest level is like a religion or a cult. You have to pay to be a member.


Crush if you spent as much time working and making some scratch as you do on these forums im sure you could pay it forward and sponser the next generation of youngers who can't afford the play to pay model!!!!!  You could make Blues Geat Again!


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## crush (Jul 12, 2022)

Nextbigthing said:


> Crush if you spent as much time working and making some scratch as you do on these forums im sure you could pay it forward and sponser the next generation of youngers who can't afford the play to pay model!!!!!  You could make Blues Geat Again!


Working? WTF do you think I'm doing here next big thing? When you find out who I'm working for you will love me, trust me


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## Nextbigthing (Jul 12, 2022)

crush said:


> Working? WTF do you think I'm doing here next big thing? When you find out who I'm working for you will love me, trust me


Can't wait to find out who you working for!! Is a press release coming?


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## crush (Jul 12, 2022)

Nextbigthing said:


> Can't wait to find out who you working for!! Is a press release coming?


No, much more than that next big thing. The fact is, 99% are now priced out of Elite Soccer, unless you got lot's of extra scratch. Can you at least admit that?


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## soccermail2020 (Jul 12, 2022)

As a TM, it depends on how the fees are structured. Our club never had extra money to help cover costs for our team. We went in to a tourney with x number of players.  If coach knew ahead of time that they wanted to include a guest player, the coach decides of that guest pays or not when they are invited.  In my humble opinion, if you are given the chance at the older age to play and showcase your talents for the opportunity to get recruited, you pay for that. But that isn’t my decision to make. If the coach knows that we need offense and allows a good offensive player to play at no charge. We can debate this all day long but we really have no say in the end.


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## Jar!23 (Jul 13, 2022)

How do you go about being a guest player?  Do you have to ask your club for the physical player pass or digital copy so you hand it to the TM or are the TMs supposed to coordinate?  Looking to trying to see if my kid can guest play for other clubs.


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## Messi>CR7 (Jul 13, 2022)

Jar!23 said:


> How do you go about being a guest player?  Do you have to ask your club for the physical player pass or digital copy so you hand it to the TM or are the TMs supposed to coordinate?  Looking to trying to see if my kid can guest play for other clubs.


I'm assuming you're asking about guest playing for another club, and not for another team within the same club.  Definitely ask your coach first.  Your TM is not supposed to hand you the players card without coach's approval.  I've seen coaches respond in one of three ways: 1) No problem.  2) Ok to guest except for club ABC, etc.  3) We do not guest play as a club policy.

Last year the US Club leagues (SoCal, ECNL, ECRL) accept digital copies of the players cards.  For tournaments, you need to check with each organizer.  Some allow digital cards while some require physical cards.


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## espola (Jul 13, 2022)

Messi>CR7 said:


> I'm assuming you're asking about guest playing for another club, and not for another team within the same club.  Definitely ask your coach first.  Your TM is not supposed to hand you the players card without coach's approval.  I've seen coaches respond in one of three ways: 1) No problem.  2) Ok to guest except for club ABC, etc.  3) We do not guest play as a club policy.
> 
> Last year the US Club leagues (SoCal, ECNL, ECRL) accept digital copies of the players cards.  For tournaments, you need to check with each organizer.  Some allow digital cards while some require physical cards.


Cal South is pretty clear on this --

1.5.5.2 The Player Pass is the express property of Cal South. Any person who withholds a Player Pass will be subjected to immediate suspension by the appropriate District Commissioner. Such suspension shall remain in force until the Cal South Youth Member Player Pass is surrendered to the District Commissioner or Certified League Registrar. (Added August 2013) 

I don't know what the other sanctioning organizations do.


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## VanMan (Jul 13, 2022)

Jar!23 said:


> How do you go about being a guest player?  Do you have to ask your club for the physical player pass or digital copy so you hand it to the TM or are the TMs supposed to coordinate?  Looking to trying to see if my kid can guest play for other clubs.


Normal etiquette is to ask your coach first.  Some clubs and coaches have more possessive/less permissive policies than others.  It can also depend on if your coach thinks that you're a flight risk and if he/she perceives that your kid is guesting with the other team to try them on for size.

As for physical or digital copy of the player pass, it will depend on the Tournament Director.  I'd suggest having the physical copy.  A number of TD's are also asking for all players to have their Medical Waivers in addition the player cards.


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## Jar!23 (Jul 13, 2022)

Yes, totally understand the need to check with the coach first.  I used to a TM but have not dealt with the guesting outside of the club situation before.  When players guested within the club and the two coaches have communicated their ok, I would just add the player to the roster and get the physical player pass from the coach.  It was a pain to pick up the pass and then give it back.  At one point, the previous club I was with allowed TMs access to the registration system which meant TMs could print out passes themselves but they stopped that practice and then only allowed one central Register person access, basically to control player movement and coaches "poaching" other players.


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## silverback (Jul 13, 2022)

How about not having guest!? Play with your team and develop your players. Ok, if you are unexpectedly short a player and are in a pinch, I get it. Or,I’ll even give you the “bring in a guest in an attempt to recruit the player” as a semi acceptable strategy. But guesting is getting out of hand. Kids flying in from out of state, teams that are made up almost entirely of guest players, coaches bringing in ringers to win games knowing perfectly well the kid has no intention of joining the team, while Johnny, who works his ass off and comes to practice every day watches from the bench. Laughable and desperate. 
Oh, and if they are needed, they don’t pay, if they aren’t needed and are using the system to play in games and not pay club fees, charge them double.


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## Grace T. (Jul 14, 2022)

silverback said:


> How about not having guest!? Play with your team and develop your players. Ok, if you are unexpectedly short a player and are in a pinch, I get it. Or,I’ll even give you the “bring in a guest in an attempt to recruit the player” as a semi acceptable strategy. But guesting is getting out of hand. Kids flying in from out of state, teams that are made up almost entirely of guest players, coaches bringing in ringers to win games knowing perfectly well the kid has no intention of joining the team, while Johnny, who works his ass off and comes to practice every day watches from the bench. Laughable and desperate.
> Oh, and if they are needed, they don’t pay, if they aren’t needed and are using the system to play in games and not pay club fees, charge them double.


The flying out thing mainly takes place at the olders levels for the showcases…the guest player wants to get a look or get the prestige of participating at a certain showcases. The receiving coach wants the team which might otherwise not be to be competitive. The ones who get shafted are the home team players that get less play time and less looks. This is the most egregious but probably also the most rare of situations. 

The most common though is not a club to club guest but a team bringing down from the same clubs higher team a player to play in the lower levels just to win. Have seen this happen all the time and it just helps the bigger clubs at the expense of the smaller ones that eventually cap out on team level.


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## crush (Jul 14, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> The flying out thing mainly takes place at the olders levels for the showcases…the guest player wants to get a look or get the prestige of participating at a certain showcases. The receiving coach wants the team which might otherwise not be to be competitive. The ones who get shafted are the home team players that get less play time and less looks. This is the most egregious but probably also the most rare of situations.
> 
> The most common though is not a club to club guest but a team bringing down from the same clubs higher team a player to play in the lower levels just to win. Have seen this happen all the time and it just helps the bigger clubs at the expense of the smaller ones that eventually cap out on team level.


100%. "Team" is gone in soccer. It's all about: The League, The Doc, The Club, The Coach, The TM, The Parent and then if anything is left, The Player is finally attended to. This was not the case 10 years ago. Whatever happen to, "Team first?"


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Jul 19, 2022)

BBJ said:


> What is a reasonable fee to pay as a guest to play in surf cup? This would be an individual player’s portion of the tournament fee and coach’s cost ( assume coach is not from San Diego so would presumably need to cover a player’s share of coach’s hotel, meals and other costs). But NOT including player’s own transportation, hotel, meals etc. I’m assuming 16 players per team.
> 
> Would be intrested to hear what others have been charged or would think is reasonable.
> Thanks!


Not at Surf Cup specifically but I've seen teams really needing a player (kids out sick or couldn't make it last minute or something) and in that case, guest players would play for free.

If it's within the club and a kid is "playing up" on a flight and it's pre-planned to do so, I think either the guest player covers just a portion of the tournament fee or some portion of the coach's accommodations too but I think mainly the tournament fee.
Even in this case, I've seen in some instances the guest player playing for free.


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