# Recruiting Tips for Parents Just Starting the Process



## MakeAPlay

I figured that I would create a place for parents that have been through the process to share insights and answer questions for parents just starting the process or looking ahead to the start of the process.  With so much misinformation out there I thought that having a thread to sort it out might be useful.


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## Azzurri

Don't get your kid pigeonholed into playing one position. My son was always tall and fast, played center back from u8 to u16. College coaches want kids that can play multiple positions.

If you have a coach that only plays your kid at 1 position, better to go down a level or move teams, then lose this opportunity. Especially at the younger ages!


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## MakeAPlay

Tip #2

Start the process early.  I recommend that you start the process the fall of her freshman year of high school.  i know that sounds really early especially since they are just starting high school and making decisions that are 5 years away seems too early but it isn't.  Start getting an idea of what type of school she wants to go to.  Does she want to go to a big school or a small one?  Urban, rural or college town setting.  Power 5 conference, mid major or D2/3.  This is where she should start getting a general idea of 20-30 schools that you can start to whittle down.  Also make sure that she remains flexible.  I know plenty of girls that committed to schools that weren't initially on their list but fit their criteria and wanted them for the soccer team.


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## MakeAPlay

Azzurri said:


> Don't get your kid pigeonholed into playing one position. My son was always tall and fast, played center back from u8 to u16. College coaches want kids that can play multiple positions.
> 
> If you have a coach that only plays your kid at 1 position, better to go down a level or move teams, then lose this opportunity. Especially at the younger ages!


Great advice!  My player will be playing a different position in college than she started off playing in U1o club.  We were always big on her playing every field position.  She switched over to her current position at U14 and although she will play the other position when needed she has never looked back.  Also the position that she played in ODP is different than her college position but the coaches at her top 3 schools all loved the fact that she had at least 3 other positions that she could play at a high level.

Versatility is highly valued.  I was told by a coach of a top 5 program that he likes to get his best 10 field players on the field and having players that play multiple positions allows that.


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## Flojo

When committing to a school, never commit solely for the soccer program or a coach. It should be obvious, but some people have a soccer mind only. If your kid gets hurt, will the school honor their scholarship? Will your kid be happy off the soccer field? Would they like the school if they weren't playing soccer? Are they committing for the coach alone, knowing that he or she can change schools at any given moment? Just some things we took into account in my DD's process!


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## NoGoal

Make sure it's your DD who is contacting and speaking to the college coaches.  The only time my wife and I spoke to my DDs college coach was when they specifically asked for us, to begin negotiating her athletic scholarship.  They shared with us that it was a breath of fresh air only having to speak with the player during the process.

Also watch the college team play and observe if the college coach is a yeller or joysticker.  You will get a good idea, if the style of coaching and style of play fits your DD.


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## espola

I encountered a local college coach in the stands at a high school game back when both my boys were playing HS.  I knew him from other venues, so I went over to greet him, and starting filling him in on the strengths of the current players.  He politely thanked me for the information, and them told me "I already know about the one I am here to look at".


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## gkrent

NoGoal said:


> Make sure it's your DD who is contacting and speaking to the college coaches.  The only time my wife and I spoke to my DDs college coach was when they specifically asked for us, to begin negotiating her athletic scholarship.  They shared with us that it was a breath of fresh air only having to speak with the player during the process.


I second this suggestion.  Its good for the players to learn to talk to adults on the phone (not something that happens much these days!) and most of the college coaches are used to talking to teenagers, so it makes it easier for the kids.


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## mirage

What would you do????

Many excellent academic institutions (e.g., MIT, CalTech, Johns Hopkins, Claremont, Uof Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, ...) are all D3 - no athletic scholarship.  They all say its needs based but threshold is different for each institution.

Many almost unheard of institutions (e.g., regional east coast private universities) have D1 programs and offers scholarship but academically meh.

Some excellent academic institutions require very high scores/grades, in addition to soccer skills and is D1 (e.g., Ivys) but offer no athletic scholarship - only needs based.

Picking school based on what? College soccer offer? If D1, 2, 3 or NAIA? Life after soccer? Solely on affordability?  

And of course coaches change and injuries happen so what's the plan-B if soccer is shortened unexpectedly?

What are you, as a parent, willing to live with and for the player, willing to do. 

Unfortunately, there is no simple solution and each kid's situation is unique and has a different outcome.

The point is, if one buys into potential outcomes before starting the recruiting journey, the likelihood of successful transition to college (with or without soccer) will be greater.


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## NoGoal

mirage said:


> What would you do????
> 
> Many excellent academic institutions (e.g., MIT, CalTech, Johns Hopkins, Claremont, Uof Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, ...) are all D3 - no athletic scholarship.  They all say its needs based but threshold is different for each institution.
> 
> Many almost unheard of institutions (e.g., regional east coast private universities) have D1 programs and offers scholarship but academically meh.
> 
> Some excellent academic institutions require very high scores/grades, in addition to soccer skills and is D1 (e.g., Ivys) but offer no athletic scholarship - only needs based.
> 
> Picking school based on what? College soccer offer? If D1, 2, 3 or NAIA? Life after soccer? Solely on affordability?
> 
> And of course coaches change and injuries happen so what's the plan-B if soccer is shortened unexpectedly?
> 
> What are you, as a parent, willing to live with and for the player, willing to do.
> 
> Unfortunately, there is no simple solution and each kid's situation is unique and has a different outcome.
> 
> The point is, if one buys into potential outcomes before starting the recruiting journey, the likelihood of successful transition to college (with or without soccer) will be greater.


My DD stated, if it was D2, NAIA or D3....she would commit to a prestigious academic D3 university (if admitted).  She even said, she would choose D3 over a D1 mid-major university soccer program not academically ranked. Example: Claremont Colleges D3 over Fresno State D1.


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## CaliKlines

Here is a good jumping off point for parents and players to help source which colleges/universities could be right for them. I found these websites to be very beneficial when comparing colleges and getting reviews from actual students on a variety of subjects (academics, housing, food, security, etc.)

This first one uses input from the major college comparison sites (Money Magazine, US News and World Reports, Forbes) and combines their rankings into a Smart Ranking. Very helpful.
http://colleges.startclass.com/
This one provides helpful information about many different aspects of college life with reviews from the actual attending students.
https://colleges.niche.com/


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## KidGretzky25

I concur on what MakeAPlay said, regarding contacting coaches early, Fresman year. Email coaches and invite them to your dds games. Make the email unique and don't send blast emails. Talk about something specific, such as a new hire, or recent news involving the school. Include a link to their YouTube page or college recruiting profile. Make sure your dd is doing the work. Your dds resume will help when contacting Power 5 conference schools. List their ODP, id2, YNT experiences. In most cases, those are the players that they come watch first. Since the colleges have to contact your club coach to contact you, make sure your following up with your dds coach.


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## Glen

NoGoal said:


> My DD stated, if it was D2, NAIA or D3....she would commit to a prestigious academic D3 university (if admitted).  She even said, she would choose D3 over a D1 mid-major university soccer program not academically ranked. Example: Claremont Colleges D3 over Fresno State D1.


No offense NoGoal, but I think your timeline for admission & comitment is screwy (i.e. you commit before you are admitted - that's how you get in to those top academic schools).  I don't think what your DD wanted to do is even feasible.  Or maybe I'm confused by the way you are using the word committed.


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## MakeAPlay

Glen said:


> No offense NoGoal, but I think your timeline for admission & comitment is screwy (i.e. you commit before you are admitted - that's how you get in to those top academic schools).  I don't think what your DD wanted to do is even feasible.  Or maybe I'm confused by the way you are using the word committed.


Some schools want to run your file by admissions before they offer a player a spot/scholarship.  They need at least 5 or 6 semesters of academic work plus SAT scores in order to get the thumbs up from admissions.  I honestly think  Stanford should do the same in order to reduce their 20%+ fallout of committed players.  When my player and I were sitting down with Paul Ratcliffe he told us straight up that he loses players to admissions every year.  Most of the admissions exceptions there go to revenue sports or individuals of unique ability (like Olympians).


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## NoGoal

Glen said:


> No offense NoGoal, but I think your timeline for admission & comitment is screwy (i.e. you commit before you are admitted - that's how you get in to those top academic schools).  I don't think what your DD wanted to do is even feasible.  Or maybe I'm confused by the way you are using the word committed.


I should have posted verbally committed. Actual committed doesn't happen until a player signs a letter of intent February of their HS Sr year.

If you have a DD that has a lot of individual soccer accolades.  She will be evaluated by college coaches her freshmen year in HS and receive offers her sophomore year.  If your DD elects to pass on Power 5 school offers, they will move on to the next player on their recruiting list.  Many Power 5 schools are already extending offers and receiving verbal commits from 2019 players. https://sites.google.com/site/soccerrecruits/  Also, if your DD waits until her Junior year to verbally commit.  There will be very little to no academic money available.  The only exception are YNT players, college coaches will ALWAYS find money or set aside money for those recruits.

If Ivy League is the destination then yes, Jr and in some cases Sr year is when the player will verbally commit.

As for grades, my DDs head coach asked for a copy of her freshmen grades and every semester afterwards.  This way they can keep track of her academic progress.  The college coaches have been doing this for years, so they already have a good idea what is needed to pass admissions at their university.


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## Glen

Great link!  Thanks for sharing.


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## espola

NoGoal said:


> I should have posted verbally committed. Actual committed doesn't happen until a player signs a letter of intent February of their HS Sr year.
> 
> If you have a DD that has a lot of individual soccer accolades.  She will be evaluated by college coaches her freshmen year in HS and receive offers her sophomore year.  If your DD elects to pass on Power 5 school offers, they will move on to the next player on their recruiting list.  Many Power 5 schools are already extending offers and receiving verbal commits from 2019 players. https://sites.google.com/site/soccerrecruits/  Also, if your DD waits until her Junior year to verbally commit.  There will be very little to no academic money available.  The only exception are YNT players, college coaches will ALWAYS find money or set aside money for those recruits.
> 
> If Ivy League is the destination then yes, Jr and in some cases Sr year is when the player will verbally commit.
> 
> As for grades, my DDs head coach asked for a copy of her freshmen grades and every semester afterwards.  This way they can keep track of her academic progress.  The college coaches have been doing this for years, so they already have a good idea what is needed to pass admissions at their university.


A coach would be foolish to make verbal commitments beyond what he can legally deliver, or even close to that.  There will always be blue chippers uncommitted right up until the middle of their Senior HS year.

You don't have to listen to my advice, but I think a player and his/her parents should be realistic about what their objective is.  Are they looking to play soccer at the highest possible level?  To get into what they think is the  the best possible school, with soccer as the key to unlock the admissions door?  To pay as little as possible for college, with soccer as bait?


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## zebrafish

MakeAPlay said:


> Great advice!  My player will be playing a different position in college than she started off playing in U1o club.  We were always big on her playing every field position.  She switched over to her current position at U14 and although she will play the other position when needed she has never looked back.


I have a younger child, but I strongly believe in her learning and being competent to play any position on the field, so I'm happy to hear this philosophy has some long-term merit. Was it difficult to find coaches who would do this? My child's current U9 coach does move the kids around, but I can plainly see there is pressure against doing this because it probably costs you games-- in the short-term anyway.


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## MakeAPlay

zebrafish said:


> I have a younger child, but I strongly believe in her learning and being competent to play any position on the field, so I'm happy to hear this philosophy has some long-term merit. Was it difficult to find coaches who would do this? My child's current U9 coach does move the kids around, but I can plainly see there is pressure against doing this because it probably costs you games-- in the short-term anyway.


It wasn't very hard for us to find coaches willing to allow her to play multiple positions.  I found that at the younger ages it is usually the parents that don't want their player at his/her less than optimum position.  We focused and her skill training, learning how to use her body and her effort to the ball.  We were lucky that our player was average sized up until about U13/14 so her coaches didn't pigeonhole her at any particular position.

I would make sure that the coach is aware that you appreciate your daughter moving around so that he/she is aware that you are okay with it.


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## CaliKlines

Another suggestion is to stay organized. Know to whom  you are sending emails and when you sent them. Keep track of phone calls to coaches. Keep track of inbound emails from coaches...hell, I even kept all of the camp invites. Our club provided software called College Fit Finder, which was a huge benefit to being organized. TGS, or Total Global Sports, also provides an outstanding service as well. So if your club is providing this software free of charge, use it and make the most of it. We used her College Fit Finder profile as part of her email signature, which also included team name, jersey number, club coach name/phone number, high school coach name/phone number.


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## Surfref

Simple...focus on education.  Bad grades equal no scholarship.  Your kid should at least be a high school "B" student and get decent SAT/ACT scores.


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## MakeAPlay

Surfref said:


> Simple...focus on education.  Bad grades equal no scholarship.  Your kid should at least be a high school "B" student and get decent SAT/ACT scores.


A more true statement has never been spoken.  Focus on grades and the soccer stuff gets magnified.


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## Azzurri

*NSCAA Launches Showcase Integrity Program*

*Service to Protect Players and Coaches from Showcase Fraud


*

*http://www.nscaa.com/web/News/Articles/July_2016/NSCAA_Launches_Showcase_Integrity_Program.aspx*


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## Juggling

Beyond the academics of an institution, what would be the best ways to evaluate the quality of the various soccer programs?   Let's say that a player really does have potential for a professional soccer career, but wants to obtain their degree & play college ball on the way to a professional contract.  I would think that not just the coach, but the assembled set of trainers need to be savvy enough to know how best to work with the students to help prevent injury.   How would one best assess the overall strength of the soccer program?


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## CaliKlines

Juggling said:


> Beyond the academics of an institution, what would be the best ways to evaluate the quality of the various soccer programs?   Let's say that a player really does have potential for a professional soccer career, but wants to obtain their degree & play college ball on the way to a professional contract.  I would think that not just the coach, but the assembled set of trainers need to be savvy enough to know how best to work with the students to help prevent injury.   How would one best assess the overall strength of the soccer program?


My DD has post-degree aspirations of playing professionally in Europe for a couple of years (hopefully not France), so we looked at the roster of the universities that she liked. The ones that have a couple or a few European players on the roster likely have contacts or a pipeline to programs in Europe and can help match her to an appropriate team/league. I also think that playing in a Power 5 conference (ACC) will help prepare her for a professional career.


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## Zerodenero

CaliKlines said:


> My DD has post-degree aspirations of playing professionally in Europe for a couple of years (hopefully not France), so we looked at the roster of the universities that she liked. The ones that have a couple or a few European players on the roster likely have contacts or a pipeline to programs in Europe and can help match her to an appropriate team/league. I also think that playing in a Power 5 conference (ACC) will help prepare her for a professional career.


Agreed.... we found Acc/east coast uni's seemed to be well connected with euro pro leagues.


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## Zerodenero

Juggling said:


> Beyond the academics of an institution, what would be the best ways to evaluate the quality of the various soccer programs?   Let's say that a player really does have potential for a professional soccer career, but wants to obtain their degree & play college ball on the way to a professional contract.  I would think that not just the coach, but the assembled set of trainers need to be savvy enough to know how best to work with the students to help prevent injury.   How would one best assess the overall strength of the soccer program?


Is this what she has in mind?

http://thepioneeronline.com/29758/opinions/womens-u-s-soccer-struggles-to-break-ground/


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## Zerodenero

Zerodenero said:


> Is this what she has in mind?
> 
> http://thepioneeronline.com/29758/opinions/womens-u-s-soccer-struggles-to-break-ground/


Correction ....is that what you have in mind? At that salary (technically low income), you'll be writing monthly "out-of-the-house-child-support" checks.


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## Juggling

Zerodenero said:


> Is this what she has in mind?
> 
> http://thepioneeronline.com/29758/opinions/womens-u-s-soccer-struggles-to-break-ground/


Thanks, it does make sense to look at how well players do coming out of various college programs as a way to assess quality.  

 Would there be a way to get a sense of how many injuries the players suffer, relative to other programs, as a way to see if their athletic training is good?  I'm asking in part because there are certainly examples of highly promising athletes who unfortunately suffer career ending injuries, and in some cases one wonders if those injuries could have been avoided if the training had been different.


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## mirage

Juggling said:


> Beyond the academics of an institution, what would be the best ways to evaluate the quality of the various soccer programs?   Let's say that a player really does have potential for a professional soccer career, but wants to obtain their degree & play college ball on the way...


The response maybe gender dependent, because if this is a male player, the four years in college leaves player so far behind his peers, that it may not be a good path.  If the player truly possesses pro caliber skills and dedication, go to professional team trials in Europe or South America and skip college.  I say this knowing the value of education in life (have two Masters degrees).

There is a VERY small window in one's life for doing this sort of things.  One can always get a degree in mid 20s+, but the window to turn pro is very small and the age will be against you.  And career ending/limiting injury is not uncommon in college style game.


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## MakeAPlay

mirage said:


> The response maybe gender dependent, because if this is a male player, the four years in college leaves player so far behind his peers, that it may not be a good path.  If the player truly possesses pro caliber skills and dedication, go to professional team trials in Europe or South America and skip college.  I say this knowing the value of education in life (have two Masters degrees).
> 
> There is a VERY small window in one's life for doing this sort of things.  One can always get a degree in mid 20s+, but the window to turn pro is very small and the age will be against you.  And career ending/limiting injury is not uncommon in college style game.


I agree.  For talented males professional soccer is a viable path.  For women it is a path that isn't for the faint of heart with literally a dozen or so players that can do it and live a middle class or better lifestyle.


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## espola

MakeAPlay said:


> I agree.  For talented males professional soccer is a viable path.  For women it is a path that isn't for the faint of heart with literally a dozen or so players that can do it and live a middle class or better lifestyle.


The women who have any chance at WNT are obvious from about age 14.   For the rest, prepare for college -- and that starts with academic grades.


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## Juggling

mirage said:


> The response maybe gender dependent, because if this is a male player, the four years in college leaves player so far behind his peers, that it may not be a good path.  If the player truly possesses pro caliber skills and dedication, go to professional team trials in Europe or South America and skip college.  I say this knowing the value of education in life (have two Masters degrees).
> 
> There is a VERY small window in one's life for doing this sort of things.  One can always get a degree in mid 20s+, but the window to turn pro is very small and the age will be against you.  And career ending/limiting injury is not uncommon in college style game.


Decisions, decisions!   Its too bad that the professional route is so limited for women, but its obviously not easy for men either.   Would keepers be just as behind as field players if they chose to do college first, or would there be yet another set of variables to weigh for them?


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## CopaMundial

espola said:


> The women who have any chance at WNT are obvious from about age 14.   For the rest, prepare for college -- and that starts with academic grades.


I disagree. I've seen the names change a lot from U14 to U17 and than again to U20. You have the top 2 or 3 that are untouchable, but the YNT camps seem to constantly shuffle names. This tells me that U14 is not the end at all, but only the beginning. If you mean by "obvious" possibilities, I agree, but I can't think of ONE U14 that I'd bet $5 on to make the senior WNT in 5 years. Not because they aren't good enough today, but because it's simply too soon to tell and a lot changes in that time frame as does the competition, which cycles in constantly.


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## ECNL

CopaMundial said:


> I disagree. I've seen the names change a lot from U14 to U17 and than again to U20. You have the top 2 or 3 that are untouchable, but the YNT camps seem to constantly shuffle names. This tells me that U14 is not the end at all, but only the beginning. If you mean by "obvious" possibilities, I agree, but I can't think of ONE U14 that I'd bet $5 on to make the senior WNT in 5 years. Not because they aren't good enough today, but because it's simply too soon to tell and a lot changes in that time frame as does the competition, which cycles in constantly.


The reason the names change from u16+ is 95% politics and 5% play style.  Also, the top player in each age group is the only one that has any real chance at the WNT.  The rest are just chasing the dream or have parents that are chasing it for them.


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## Multi Sport

My DD used collegefitfinder.com to narrow her search.  No sense in wasting time looking at a school that doesn't have your kids major.

She took the ACT three times (raising her test score) after she committed.  This raised the level of her academic portion of her scholarship to highest the school offered.  

Concentrate on good grades. 

In regards to soccer? Learn to use both feet as soon as possible. 

Study and get good grades. Take AP classes and get good grades...


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## ECNL

Unless your kids is super academically gifted and wants to attend an Ivy league school, forget about AP and honors classes.  It is not worth the rigor.  The majority of colleges and their respective scholarships only consider your unweighted GPA.  I can tell you story after story of false prophets (i.e., high school counselors) exposing the philosophy of "rigor" and then the painful reality hits at scholarship award time when the general education student (e.g., who never took an honors or AP class) with a 4.0 earns the award.  Another important consideration is how does your high school calculate class rank.  It is either weighted or unweighted.  Oh, and don't pull-up middle school grades if your daughter's GPA is 3.9 and her high school calculates class rank with weighted grades.  Middle school grades are always on a 4.0 scale so pulling up her A will end up decreasing her GPA and will definitely impact her class rank.


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## MakeAPlay

Multi Sport said:


> My DD used collegefitfinder.com to narrow her search.  No sense in wasting time looking at a school that doesn't have your kids major.
> 
> She took the ACT three times (raising her test score) after she committed.  This raised the level of her academic portion of her scholarship to highest the school offered.
> 
> Concentrate on good grades.
> 
> In regards to soccer? Learn to use both feet as soon as possible.
> 
> Study and get good grades. Take AP classes and get good grades...



Great post and very true!


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## mirage

ECNL said:


> Unless your kids is super academically gifted and wants to attend an Ivy league school, forget about AP and honors classes.  It is not worth the rigor.  The majority of colleges and their respective scholarships only consider your unweighted GPA......


Every college I know look for students that challenge themselves academically and taking AP, IB, and Honors class demonstrates that.

The reason most colleges use unweighted GPA is because different schools give weighted values to different types of classes.  By taking the weighing out, it give them level view for evaluation.  That should not be confused with its not important nor not needed.

To advise someone, who is less than "super academically gifted" (whatever that means) not to take any AP or Honors classes to avoid rigorous classes, would be a mistake in my mind.

Another reason to take AP classes, then the AP tests, is to gain college credit.  One can argue if its one for one or if they accept just passing score versus 5/5 score on the tests, in most cases, some credit is given to the students for doing so.

I know many students that took AP classes and passed with 3/5 and gotten UC and Cal State school credits, and entered their freshman year with sophomore class standing.  In other words, the likelihood of them graduating sooner is greater (i.e., less tuition due to shorter time spent=lower costs).

As for Ivys and other top 20 academically ranked schools, one is definitely at a disadvantage without APs because all others, including soccer players/athletes, all have plenty of AP classes.  One of the key criteria for many of those schools is that the athletic population should be representative of the entire college.  Meaning that should be close to the non-athletic general population.


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## MakeAPlay

mirage said:


> Every college I know look for students that challenge themselves academically and taking AP, IB, and Honors class demonstrates that.
> 
> The reason most colleges use unweighted GPA is because different schools give weighted values to different types of classes.  By taking the weighing out, it give them level view for evaluation.  That should not be confused with its not important nor not needed.
> 
> To advise someone, who is less than "super academically gifted" (whatever that means) not to take any AP or Honors classes to avoid rigorous classes, would be a mistake in my mind.
> 
> Another reason to take AP classes, then the AP tests, is to gain college credit.  One can argue if its one for one or if they accept just passing score versus 5/5 score on the tests, in most cases, some credit is given to the students for doing so.
> 
> I know many students that took AP classes and passed with 3/5 and gotten UC and Cal State school credits, and entered their freshman year with sophomore class standing.  In other words, the likelihood of them graduating sooner is greater (i.e., less tuition due to shorter time spent=lower costs).
> 
> As for Ivys and other top 20 academically ranked schools, one is definitely at a disadvantage without APs because all others, including soccer players/athletes, all have plenty of AP classes.  One of the key criteria for many of those schools is that the athletic population should be representative of the entire college.  Meaning that should be close to the non-athletic general population.


Great post!


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## gkrent

mirage said:


> I know many students that took AP classes and passed with 3/5 and gotten UC and Cal State school credits, and entered their freshman year with sophomore class standing.  In other words, the likelihood of them graduating sooner is greater (i.e., less tuition due to shorter time spent=lower costs).


It also gives the student a little bit of breathing room for scheduling if they are starting out in a rigorous D1 sports program in fall.  Having a lot of credits can make that first semester/quarter a LOT easier to deal with.


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## CaliKlines

Another tip is to make sure your player is thanking the college coach at every opportunity. Even if they come to one of your matches and don't specifically indicate interest in your player, if it is a school they would like to attend, send the coach a thank you note for coming to the match. Maybe their attention was diverted when he/she had a nice run of play...if you are thanking them, they may come back out for a second look.


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## MakeAPlay

gkrent said:


> It also gives the student a little bit of breathing room for scheduling if they are starting out in a rigorous D1 sports program in fall.  Having a lot of credits can make that first semester/quarter a LOT easier to deal with.


Some players come in as Academic juniors thanks to AP classes and community college.


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## Multi Sport

ECNL said:


> Unless your kids is super academically gifted and wants to attend an Ivy league school, forget about AP and honors classes.  It is not worth the rigor.  The majority of colleges and their respective scholarships only consider your unweighted GPA.  I can tell you story after story of false prophets (i.e., high school counselors) exposing the philosophy of "rigor" and then the painful reality hits at scholarship award time when the general education student (e.g., who never took an honors or AP class) with a 4.0 earns the award.  Another important consideration is how does your high school calculate class rank.  It is either weighted or unweighted.  Oh, and don't pull-up middle school grades if your daughter's GPA is 3.9 and her high school calculates class rank with weighted grades.  Middle school grades are always on a 4.0 scale so pulling up her A will end up decreasing her GPA and will definitely impact her class rank.


True on the weighted GPA. Not true on not worth the rigor. Besides getting college credit and starting off one step ahead it teaches the kid time management.  It's not for every kid but if they can handle it I would recommend it.


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## push_up

It is true on both.  If your kid can't get an A doing honors let alone AP don't do it.  It is not worth it.


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## Calisoccer11

What do you guys think about ID camps that are hosted by colleges?  I'm planning to have my daughter go to one or two this August.  They are not too terribly expensive so I was thinking it would be a good experience.


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## MakeAPlay

Calisoccer11 said:


> What do you guys think about ID camps that are hosted by colleges?  I'm planning to have my daughter go to one or two this August.  They are not too terribly expensive so I was thinking it would be a good experience.


I think they are a great idea if she is interested in the school.  It is even better if she is invited by the school.


----------



## Zerodenero

Calisoccer11 said:


> What do you guys think about ID camps that are hosted by colleges?  I'm planning to have my daughter go to one or two this August.  They are not too terribly expensive so I was thinking it would be a good experience.


Can be very effective method for your dd to get noticed by her college of choice. Even better if she's invited by said school. In our experience, camps seems to work well with DII & III schools that don't have the athletic budgets to sent their coaches across the country from showcase to showcase.

Going back in memory/thinking about my DD's recruiting experience, back in the ulittle (_I think U11 or 12_) we sent her to a college camp at west coast powerhouse academic/athletic university.........it was money well spent because the _"dream_" for her became tangible. It really seemed to set the seed in her mind to get recruited & play in college. It worked as she's now committed to a D1 elite academic university.


----------



## Calisoccer11

MakeAPlay said:


> I think they are a great idea if she is interested in the school.  It is even better if she is invited by the school.


She gets a lot of emails that are dir


Zerodenero said:


> Can be very effective method for your dd to get noticed by her college of choice. Even better if she's invited by said school. In our experience, camps seems to work well with DII & III schools that don't have the athletic budgets to sent their coaches across the country from showcase to showcase.
> 
> Going back in memory/thinking about my DD's recruiting experience, back in the ulittle (_I think U11 or 12_) we sent her to a college camp at west coast powerhouse academic/athletic university.........it was money well spent because the _"dream_" for her became tangible. It really seemed to set the seed in her mind to get recruited & play in college. It worked as she's now committed to a D1 elite academic university.


That's awesome!  That is what I hope for...that it will plant the seed and give her a little boost! My daughter can be so hard on herself and be so insecure sometimes.  No matter how many times she hears she is a good player, she is always doubtful.   We receive a ton of mass generic emails from college ID camps but she has also gotten some that are addressed specifically to her.  I wasn't sure if this an authentic  invitation or if her name was just pulled off a complied list of girls on top  teams.  She also received one invitation that, while it was just a flyer, the address on the envelope was hand written to her.  Since it was from one of the schools she had written to in the past and she is interested in, I took it to be a good sign and convinced her to give it a shot!  We will see if we get some positive feedback.  
Do the kids get an evaluation or anything of the sort at these ID camps?


----------



## Calisoccer11

Zerodenero said:


> Can be very effective method for your dd to get noticed by her college of choice. Even better if she's invited by said school. In our experience, camps seems to work well with DII & III schools that don't have the athletic budgets to sent their coaches across the country from showcase to showcase.
> 
> Going back in memory/thinking about my DD's recruiting experience, back in the ulittle (_I think U11 or 12_) we sent her to a college camp at west coast powerhouse academic/athletic university.........it was money well spent because the _"dream_" for her became tangible. It really seemed to set the seed in her mind to get recruited & play in college. It worked as she's now committed to a D1 elite academic university.


Also, should she write to the coaches that will be in attendance at these ID camps?


----------



## Zerodenero

Calisoccer11 said:


> Also, should she write to the coaches that will be in attendance at these ID camps?


IMO, depends on her age....if she's nearing the recruiting age (8th grade) - sure..... Then again, I suppose it wouldn't/couldn't hurt reaching out to the coach. Good practice for HER to reach out and practice for the prime time of recruiting (9th - 11th grade).


----------



## mirage

Without naming particular schools, there are few things to keep in mind regarding ID camps.

All ID camps are fundraisers so the invite list is quite large.  Within that, are some real interests at times.

Just because its addressed to your particular child, I would not interpret that to mean its a personal invite from the coach.  Many mail programs will address canned notes to individuals from their database.  Some of these canned notes sound quite personal these days.  If it has some additional attributes with the note (e.g., saw you play at XXX tournament, viewed your highlight videos, noticing grades and accomplishments, ...), then chances are that a coach did take some notice and is interested in finding out bit more about the player.

Some schools use ID camps almost strictly as money makers, whereas some actually find players and recruit from it.  Its hard to know which is which but a good indicator is looking at a coach to camper ratio.  Many schools invite other school coaches to the camp (their buddies) and they run the teams during the camp while the school hosting the camp actually scouts the players.  Some schools run the camp only with their staff and limit the campers by capping the total players to maintain adequate ration.  Then there are some that hosts as many as they can get over a couple of days.

The big consolidated camps run by a third party, where they invite coaches from 30~50 schools, typically ends up nothing more than an introduction to some of the attending coaches and they, in turn, invite the players to their own school's ID camp thereafter.  That said, I know a case where the player met his coach of interest at one these big camps, and continued dialogues through the year until their ID camp came up and was greeted by the player first name when attending the institution's camp, resulting in a very positive feedback at the end to continue on.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the camp is simply an intro and liken to "first date", as it were.  The courtship goes a long ways before anything is consummated into an offer.  While shotgun deals may happen here and there, it is unusual and one probably should not expect it.  Reason - many coaches been burned by flashy players and later regretted their decision.  Good coaches will take their time and perform due diligence of the player and the family.

The college coaches are looking at everything at ID camps, such as work ethics, social interactions with other players during breaks meals and info sessions, conduct on the field during plays and so on.  Not just soccer skills and abilities.

Last, most camps are not meant to be a development camp, but is an evaluation camp for their purposes.  If you want any feedback, make a point to go talk to the coaches after the camp is over and often that will either close the door, or keep it open and to continue on further with the school.  Keep in mind that it is just as important to eliminate schools from your list as the time go by so that one is not chasing everywhere.  Go where you are wanted.....

ps, last last thing on this.  We've setup a different email for academic correspondence versus soccer correspondence.  My kid gets recruiting emails from all over the country, highly famous to never heard of schools, and fills up the inbox for academics.  By using different email for soccer, you can keep track of which school is emailing for soccer or academics.

These are my takeaways from my kid and teammates doing few ID camps. YMMV....


----------



## MakeAPlay

mirage said:


> Without naming particular schools, there are few things to keep in mind regarding ID camps.
> 
> All ID camps are fundraisers so the invite list is quite large.  Within that, are some real interests at times.
> 
> Just because its addressed to your particular child, I would not interpret that to mean its a personal invite from the coach.  Many mail programs will address canned notes to individuals from their database.  Some of these canned notes sound quite personal these days.  If it has some additional attributes with the note (e.g., saw you play at XXX tournament, viewed your highlight videos, noticing grades and accomplishments, ...), then chances are that a coach did take some notice and is interested in finding out bit more about the player.
> 
> Some schools use ID camps almost strictly as money makers, whereas some actually find players and recruit from it.  Its hard to know which is which but a good indicator is looking at a coach to camper ratio.  Many schools invite other school coaches to the camp (their buddies) and they run the teams during the camp while the school hosting the camp actually scouts the players.  Some schools run the camp only with their staff and limit the campers by capping the total players to maintain adequate ration.  Then there are some that hosts as many as they can get over a couple of days.
> 
> The big consolidated camps run by a third party, where they invite coaches from 30~50 schools, typically ends up nothing more than an introduction to some of the attending coaches and they, in turn, invite the players to their own school's ID camp thereafter.  That said, I know a case where the player met his coach of interest at one these big camps, and continued dialogues through the year until their ID camp came up and was greeted by the player first name when attending the institution's camp, resulting in a very positive feedback at the end to continue on.
> 
> The other thing to keep in mind is that the camp is simply an intro and liken to "first date", as it were.  The courtship goes a long ways before anything is consummated into an offer.  While shotgun deals may happen here and there, it is unusual and one probably should not expect it.  Reason - many coaches been burned by flashy players and later regretted their decision.  Good coaches will take their time and perform due diligence of the player and the family.
> 
> The college coaches are looking at everything at ID camps, such as work ethics, social interactions with other players during breaks meals and info sessions, conduct on the field during plays and so on.  Not just soccer skills and abilities.
> 
> Last, most camps are not meant to be a development camp, but is an evaluation camp for their purposes.  If you want any feedback, make a point to go talk to the coaches after the camp is over and often that will either close the door, or keep it open and to continue on further with the school.  Keep in mind that it is just as important to eliminate schools from your list as the time go by so that one is not chasing everywhere.  Go where you are wanted.....
> 
> ps, last last thing on this.  We've setup a different email for academic correspondence versus soccer correspondence.  My kid gets recruiting emails from all over the country, highly famous to never heard of schools, and fills up the inbox for academics.  By using different email for soccer, you can keep track of which school is emailing for soccer or academics.
> 
> These are my takeaways from my kid and teammates doing few ID camps. YMMV....



Great post.  Very thorough and true.  When my player went to the ID camp of the school she is now attending it was clear by what team you were placed on during the summer camp whether you were a player that they were interested in or not.  The coaches watched and were engaged in the the games that they placed their prospects on versus the rank and file players.  3 of the players on my daughter's team at the ID camp are members of her recruiting class so take note of any other excellent players.  They may be future teammates and if your daughter is on a team with a lot of exceptional players then that is a good sign.


----------



## SS22

MakeAPlay said:


> Tip #2
> 
> Start the process early.  I recommend that you start the process the fall of her freshman year of high school.  i know that sounds really early especially since they are just starting high school and making decisions that are 5 years away seems too early but it isn't.  Start getting an idea of what type of school she wants to go to.  Does she want to go to a big school or a small one?  Urban, rural or college town setting.  Power 5 conference, mid major or D2/3.  This is where she should start getting a general idea of 20-30 schools that you can start to whittle down.  Also make sure that she remains flexible.  I know plenty of girls that committed to schools that weren't initially on their list but fit their criteria and wanted them for the soccer team.


What is power 5? Thanks in advance


----------



## push_up

SS22 said:


> What is power 5? Thanks in advance


The Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC), Big Ten Conference (B1G), Big 12 Conference, Pac-12 Conference, and Southeastern Conference (SEC).


----------



## Calisoccer11

mirage said:


> Without naming particular schools, there are few things to keep in mind regarding ID camps.
> 
> All ID camps are fundraisers so the invite list is quite large.  Within that, are some real interests at times.
> 
> Just because its addressed to your particular child, I would not interpret that to mean its a personal invite from the coach.  Many mail programs will address canned notes to individuals from their database.  Some of these canned notes sound quite personal these days.  If it has some additional attributes with the note (e.g., saw you play at XXX tournament, viewed your highlight videos, noticing grades and accomplishments, ...), then chances are that a coach did take some notice and is interested in finding out bit more about the player.
> 
> Some schools use ID camps almost strictly as money makers, whereas some actually find players and recruit from it.  Its hard to know which is which but a good indicator is looking at a coach to camper ratio.  Many schools invite other school coaches to the camp (their buddies) and they run the teams during the camp while the school hosting the camp actually scouts the players.  Some schools run the camp only with their staff and limit the campers by capping the total players to maintain adequate ration.  Then there are some that hosts as many as they can get over a couple of days.
> 
> Thank you for the good info!
> 
> The big consolidated camps run by a third party, where they invite coaches from 30~50 schools, typically ends up nothing more than an introduction to some of the attending coaches and they, in turn, invite the players to their own school's ID camp thereafter.  That said, I know a case where the player met his coach of interest at one these big camps, and continued dialogues through the year until their ID camp came up and was greeted by the player first name when attending the institution's camp, resulting in a very positive feedback at the end to continue on.
> 
> The other thing to keep in mind is that the camp is simply an intro and liken to "first date", as it were.  The courtship goes a long ways before anything is consummated into an offer.  While shotgun deals may happen here and there, it is unusual and one probably should not expect it.  Reason - many coaches been burned by flashy players and later regretted their decision.  Good coaches will take their time and perform due diligence of the player and the family.
> 
> The college coaches are looking at everything at ID camps, such as work ethics, social interactions with other players during breaks meals and info sessions, conduct on the field during plays and so on.  Not just soccer skills and abilities.
> 
> Last, most camps are not meant to be a development camp, but is an evaluation camp for their purposes.  If you want any feedback, make a point to go talk to the coaches after the camp is over and often that will either close the door, or keep it open and to continue on further with the school.  Keep in mind that it is just as important to eliminate schools from your list as the time go by so that one is not chasing everywhere.  Go where you are wanted.....
> 
> ps, last last thing on this.  We've setup a different email for academic correspondence versus soccer correspondence.  My kid gets recruiting emails from all over the country, highly famous to never heard of schools, and fills up the inbox for academics.  By using different email for soccer, you can keep track of which school is emailing for soccer or academics.
> 
> These are my takeaways from my kid and teammates doing few ID camps. YMMV....


----------



## Surfref

Not so much advice, as what can go wrong even if you do all your homework and investigate the college.  My DD had a bad experience with the university that recruited her and gave her a $14000 scholarship to play.  She was recruited by the female head coach.  That coach left the school for a higher level school in the late spring before my DD reported to the college.  We found out about the coaching change when she reported for training in late July.  The male coach who took over the head coach job had primarily only coached boys.  In a nutshell, he was a horrible girls coach and could not relate to 18-22 year old women.  Instead of building team unity, he created an environment that put the girls in direct competition with each other.  DD started every game beginning in mid-September until she tore her MCL the last week in October.  In mid-November, DD told us she was coming home and had already made arrangements to attend a JC in San Diego before transferring to a CS or UC, and she needed one of us to come drive cross country with her. She actually liked the university and her teachers, but was so demoralized by the soccer program she felt she needed to get out of that environment.  I am just glad she was mature enough to make the decision and plans on her own and get away from the toxic soccer environment. DD was one of 6 out of 8 Freshmen that chose to either leave the college or not play as a Sophomore. She will be playing at the JC this fall and is already practicing and having a great time.

So, no matter how much research you do on the college and the program things can still go wrong.  If they do go wrong, just support your kid.


----------



## tenacious

Calisoccer11 said:


> What do you guys think about ID camps that are hosted by colleges?  I'm planning to have my daughter go to one or two this August.  They are not too terribly expensive so I was thinking it would be a good experience.


Have your kid hang out after the camp and talk to the coach.  Obviously you hope the coach is like you're the kid we've been waiting for.  More likely, is you find out what positions he's looking looking to fill at your kid's age group, and when/where they recruit.  Then you go to work finding a way to get your kid out on a field in front of them so they can watch the kid play in a real match.  Camps by their nature are designed so everyone has fun, which makes standing out somewhat tricky...

It's easier if you get your kid on a team that travels to showcases.  At a showcase the college coaches watch the teams from the sideline and will mention to the coach/manager which players caught their eye.  Which often leads to a phone call where the player gets invited to attend a university soccer camp for a meet cute...


----------



## It won't matter later

mirage said:


> Without naming particular schools, there are few things to keep in mind regarding ID camps.
> 
> All ID camps are fundraisers so the invite list is quite large.  Within that, are some real interests at times.
> 
> Just because its addressed to your particular child, I would not interpret that to mean its a personal invite from the coach.  Many mail programs will address canned notes to individuals from their database.  Some of these canned notes sound quite personal these days.  If it has some additional attributes with the note (e.g., saw you play at XXX tournament, viewed your highlight videos, noticing grades and accomplishments, ...), then chances are that a coach did take some notice and is interested in finding out bit more about the player.
> 
> Some schools use ID camps almost strictly as money makers, whereas some actually find players and recruit from it.  Its hard to know which is which but a good indicator is looking at a coach to camper ratio.  Many schools invite other school coaches to the camp (their buddies) and they run the teams during the camp while the school hosting the camp actually scouts the players.  Some schools run the camp only with their staff and limit the campers by capping the total players to maintain adequate ration.  Then there are some that hosts as many as they can get over a couple of days.
> 
> The big consolidated camps run by a third party, where they invite coaches from 30~50 schools, typically ends up nothing more than an introduction to some of the attending coaches and they, in turn, invite the players to their own school's ID camp thereafter.  That said, I know a case where the player met his coach of interest at one these big camps, and continued dialogues through the year until their ID camp came up and was greeted by the player first name when attending the institution's camp, resulting in a very positive feedback at the end to continue on.
> 
> The other thing to keep in mind is that the camp is simply an intro and liken to "first date", as it were.  The courtship goes a long ways before anything is consummated into an offer.  While shotgun deals may happen here and there, it is unusual and one probably should not expect it.  Reason - many coaches been burned by flashy players and later regretted their decision.  Good coaches will take their time and perform due diligence of the player and the family.
> 
> The college coaches are looking at everything at ID camps, such as work ethics, social interactions with other players during breaks meals and info sessions, conduct on the field during plays and so on.  Not just soccer skills and abilities.
> 
> Last, most camps are not meant to be a development camp, but is an evaluation camp for their purposes.  If you want any feedback, make a point to go talk to the coaches after the camp is over and often that will either close the door, or keep it open and to continue on further with the school.  Keep in mind that it is just as important to eliminate schools from your list as the time go by so that one is not chasing everywhere.  Go where you are wanted.....
> 
> ps, last last thing on this.  We've setup a different email for academic correspondence versus soccer correspondence.  My kid gets recruiting emails from all over the country, highly famous to never heard of schools, and fills up the inbox for academics.  By using different email for soccer, you can keep track of which school is emailing for soccer or academics.
> 
> These are my takeaways from my kid and teammates doing few ID camps. YMMV....


Another tidbit on the email.  We used one email for ECNL registration, one for recruiting brochures and another for direct contact with schools.  It made it much easier to know the difference between an invite that went to everyone in the ECNL database versus one based on having seen her play.  Then she used a separate one when she emailed coaches inviting them to watch her play.   It also really helps to have other families on the team where you can say "hey, did Suzie get an email from U of___ for camp?"  Of course this requires everyone to not be sensitive or butt-hurt and insecure when they do not get the same invite.  And nowadays, that is not always possible.


----------



## It won't matter later

Surfref said:


> Not so much advice, as what can go wrong even if you do all your homework and investigate the college.  My DD had a bad experience with the university that recruited her and gave her a $14000 scholarship to play.  She was recruited by the female head coach.  That coach left the school for a higher level school in the late spring before my DD reported to the college.  We found out about the coaching change when she reported for training in late July.  The male coach who took over the head coach job had primarily only coached boys.  In a nutshell, he was a horrible girls coach and could not relate to 18-22 year old women.  Instead of building team unity, he created an environment that put the girls in direct competition with each other.  DD started every game beginning in mid-September until she tore her MCL the last week in October.  In mid-November, DD told us she was coming home and had already made arrangements to attend a JC in San Diego before transferring to a CS or UC, and she needed one of us to come drive cross country with her. She actually liked the university and her teachers, but was so demoralized by the soccer program she felt she needed to get out of that environment.  I am just glad she was mature enough to make the decision and plans on her own and get away from the toxic soccer environment. DD was one of 6 out of 8 Freshmen that chose to either leave the college or not play as a Sophomore. She will be playing at the JC this fall and is already practicing and having a great time.
> 
> So, no matter how much research you do on the college and the program things can still go wrong.  If they do go wrong, just support your kid.


Amen!   And good luck to your daughter.


----------



## Zoro

A soccer scholarship is a job that pays tax-free - whatever it pays.  But it is a job.
It may affect classes they take, it may affect social life while also providing a platform of security and friends.
All colleges are different, but if they are giving you money - they expect something.


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## Zoro

If you are using soccer as a tool for school, it is the most important activity your kid does.  It is more important than any AP class, or any homework.  Elite colleges will accept a student with a B, or maybe a C (and explanation) who is also the athlete they want over a straight A 4.0 (>4.0 is not the measure used by any elite college) who they don't want.


----------



## Multi Sport

Zoro said:


> If you are using soccer as a tool for school, it is the most important activity your kid does.  It is more important than any AP class, or any homework.  Elite colleges will accept a student with a B, or maybe a C (and explanation) who is also the athlete they want over a straight A 4.0 (>4.0 is not the measure used by any elite college) who they don't want.


So right. That's why you need to sit down with your kid and discuss what their plans are after college. If they want to be a coach or maybe play professionally then the school they choose will be different then someone who wants to earn an engineering degree. One of the first questions my daughter wanted to know was what is the graduation rate and GPAs of the schools student athletes.


----------



## Zoro

Surfref said:


> Simple...focus on education.  Bad grades equal no scholarship.  Your kid should at least be a high school "B" student and get decent SAT/ACT scores.


Yes.  Don't be bad.  But even SAT 800 in math was reported only a 40% chance of entrance to Dartmouth.  
If they are a B student - focus on being recruit-able.  A sport is a 1 GPA point and coach trump card for getting your kid in.  I'm keeping money out of this.

A recruit-able athlete has no such issues getting into any school where they meet the bar.  While someone with "nothing special" in the 90th percentile likely won't make it.  There are huge opportunities based on being a minority (black), but other than that it needs to be something else.  Sports work.


----------



## Zoro

There is "virtually" no such thing as money for academics at elite (1%ish) colleges, but there is for sports.
Or - doubt any soccer play has ever received money for academic achievement at those elite colleges soccer could get them into.

If you are shooting for one of those colleges grades, test scores more, will only help you get in.  
NCAA Sports will help you get in and possibly get money.


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## Zoro

If your family has demonstrated financial need or are an ethnic background that gets financial aide you stand a lower chance of getting soccer money than if not.


----------



## pooka

Zoro said:


> Yes.  Don't be bad.  But even SAT 800 in math was reported only a 40% chance of entrance to Dartmouth.
> If they are a B student - focus on being recruit-able.  A sport is a 1 GPA point and coach trump card for getting your kid in.  I'm keeping money out of this.
> 
> A recruit-able athlete has no such issues getting into any school where they meet the bar.  While someone with "nothing special" in the 90th percentile likely won't make it.  There are huge opportunities based on being a minority (black), but other than that it needs to be something else.  Sports work.


I was with you until you got to "huge opportunities" for being black. I don' know why folks continue to believe that being black is an automatic ticket into any school you want. You can even look at the recent affirmative action case of the mediocre chick that wanted to get into UT... of the 40 some people with the same mediocre grades that got in instead of her, only 6 were black. the other 34 or so were white. 

I'd love to know where these huge opportunities are. Stop believing the hype.


----------



## Surfref

I posted this on another thread, but there are parts that apply to this thread.  The other thread was about club development vs trophies.

 Who really gives a crap which club supposedly develops or gets the most trophies. It took more than just my DD's club to get her to the level that she was given a substantial soccer scholarship and is now in her second year of college soccer. In all actuality, her clubs emphasized the boys program and did not really support the girls even though the girls were more successful. My DD did the majority of her development (skills) working with a trainer such as Juaquin Huerta, Jen Lalor and The Catalyst a Training Center in San Diego. Game tactics primarily came from watching a ton of soccer on TV and talking to me about the games and player tactics, and two great coaches, Jen Lalor (US National team player) and Gus D. She trained with Jen long before she played for her. Jen is now an assistant coach for the US youth national teams. It takes motivation by the player to want to get better and make it to that next level. She started college workouts and tryouts last Monday. The players went into the gym on Wednesday to do some weight work and a third of the girls could not do one pull-up, bench press the bar (45 lbs) or squat the bar. Most of them had never done any weight work or gym work. DD 5'2" knocked out 18 pull-ups (I can't do that and most of you can't), 150 lbs bench press and 200 lbs squat and still ran the 40 in 5 seconds. Does your kids coach have them do weight training and teach them proper techniques? Probably not. This is part of development. Does your kids coach teach them proper running and sprinting mechanics which will make them considerably faster on the field? Probably not which is part of development. Does your kids coach constantly yell direction to them or let your kid work it out on the field and talk to them when they come out of the game? Most coaches constantly give direction. Don't forget, I am a referee and have to listen to 90 percent of coaches, even at U19, constantly yell instructions to the players. Development is not a singular entity that s controlled by a coach or club but is a team effort from the coach, club, trainer, parents, and player. IMHO the coach has about a 25 percent influence on the players development. Trainers (good ones)  make up 50 percent. The player and parent, yes the parents, make up the other 25 percent. Soccer is a very mental game and if the player is not focused, motivated, and goal driven, all the skill in the world will get them to the next level.

So, find an outstanding trainer ( 1-on-1 and 3-on-1 training) and a decent coach. But, most of all make sure your kid's head is in the game and actually wants to put in the physical and mental work. Also, make sure your kid knows how to and does lift weights. Last year one of my DD teammates dropped the weight lifting bar on her chest and broke 5 ribs. Soccer is more than just a few passes and shots on the field, but a game that demands great levels of both physical and mental preparation.

DD remembers who she played and how the game went for every trophy and medal going back to U10 AYSO. So, those $5 medals do mean something to the motivated players.


----------



## Zoro

pooka said:


> I was with you until you got to "huge opportunities" for being black. I don' know why folks continue to believe that being black is an automatic ticket into any school you want. You can even look at the recent affirmative action case of the mediocre chick that wanted to get into UT... of the 40 some people with the same mediocre grades that got in instead of her, only 6 were black. the other 34 or so were white.
> 
> I'd love to know where these huge opportunities are. Stop believing the hype.


Here is one that pertained to us (so I saved it).   The difference was about $400K in earnings for us (pre tax money to pay full tuition 5 years).   My daughter is in school of architecture at ND.  When looking for architecture the best we found was being a soccer player, or being African American.  I was also looking for my niece who is black and also wanted architecture.


----------



## Zoro

Learn about the Common Data Set and know the 25th percentile (section C9) for each school you look at.   Acceptance rate and 25th percentile (ability) often do not correlate.  There are many schools with higher acceptance rates and higher test scores than schools with lower ones.  It has to do with a bunch of factors, location and NCAA sports.  You will see many schools with big football programs will have a rather large range from 25%-75%, while non-sporty schools have a smaller band.  Traditionally the Ivys and a few other don't dip as low for the athletes that bring in revenue, but most do.

If you are using soccer and the school is big into football - that 25%+ is a good place to be.  If the school does not seem to dip for athletes your kid can be below that - and get in with soccer.

As an example (on the old site I had 25 links)  SAT are 25th percentile
Stanford CDS http://ucomm.stanford.edu/cds/2015  ACT 31 SAT 690/700
UCLA http://www.aim.ucla.edu/profiles/cds2.aspx  ACT 25 SAT 570/600
Caltech for fun (no revenue FB team) http://finance.caltech.edu/documents/394-cds2015_final.pdf  ACT 34 SAT 730/770
UC Irvine  (no revenue FB team) http://www.oir.uci.edu/files/campus/CDS2015_16.pdf  ACT (they don't do it) SAT 490/550
Pepperdine (no revenue FB team) http://oie.pepperdine.edu/content/public/Data Warehouse/Common Data Set/CDS 2015-2016.pdf ACT 25 SAT 550/550
Harvard say they don't dip lower for sports http://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2014-15.pdf  ACT  32 700/710


----------



## Zoro

Not all programs are fully funded.  Of course soccer is used by parents to pay for school as well as get in, but the schools have to fund sports programs.  Not every NCAA sport gets tuition paid for up to the scholarship limit.  Football helps pay for soccer, but a school without a big revenue sport needs to get that money elsewhere.  That may affect what coaches can offer.


----------



## Zoro

Schools like to see the kid take the toughest courses available.  At some big high schools that may be AP/IB and very competitive.  At a smaller school that may be Honors.  Many high schools inflate grade GPAs and some go the other way where an A- in AP is not a 5.0.
Be prepared to both explain that on an app AND consider going to a less competitive school and getting an A vs the big school AP and getting a B.

An explained C can be fine.  More on that later if I have not mentioned already.


----------



## Legendary FC

Surfref said:


> I posted this on another thread, but there are parts that apply to this thread.  The other thread was about club development vs trophies.
> 
> Who really gives a crap which club supposedly develops or gets the most trophies. It took more than just my DD's club to get her to the level that she was given a substantial soccer scholarship and is now in her second year of college soccer. In all actuality, her clubs emphasized the boys program and did not really support the girls even though the girls were more successful. My DD did the majority of her development (skills) working with a trainer such as Juaquin Huerta, Jen Lalor and The Catalyst a Training Center in San Diego. Game tactics primarily came from watching a ton of soccer on TV and talking to me about the games and player tactics, and two great coaches, Jen Lalor (US National team player) and Gus D. She trained with Jen long before she played for her. Jen is now an assistant coach for the US youth national teams. It takes motivation by the player to want to get better and make it to that next level. She started college workouts and tryouts last Monday. The players went into the gym on Wednesday to do some weight work and a third of the girls could not do one pull-up, bench press the bar (45 lbs) or squat the bar. Most of them had never done any weight work or gym work. DD 5'2" knocked out 18 pull-ups (I can't do that and most of you can't), 150 lbs bench press and 200 lbs squat and still ran the 40 in 5 seconds. Does your kids coach have them do weight training and teach them proper techniques? Probably not. This is part of development. Does your kids coach teach them proper running and sprinting mechanics which will make them considerably faster on the field? Probably not which is part of development. Does your kids coach constantly yell direction to them or let your kid work it out on the field and talk to them when they come out of the game? Most coaches constantly give direction. Don't forget, I am a referee and have to listen to 90 percent of coaches, even at U19, constantly yell instructions to the players. Development is not a singular entity that s controlled by a coach or club but is a team effort from the coach, club, trainer, parents, and player. IMHO the coach has about a 25 percent influence on the players development. Trainers (good ones)  make up 50 percent. The player and parent, yes the parents, make up the other 25 percent. Soccer is a very mental game and if the player is not focused, motivated, and goal driven, all the skill in the world will get them to the next level.
> 
> So, find an outstanding trainer ( 1-on-1 and 3-on-1 training) and a decent coach. But, most of all make sure your kid's head is in the game and actually wants to put in the physical and mental work. Also, make sure your kid knows how to and does lift weights. Last year one of my DD teammates dropped the weight lifting bar on her chest and broke 5 ribs. Soccer is more than just a few passes and shots on the field, but a game that demands great levels of both physical and mental preparation.
> 
> DD remembers who she played and how the game went for every trophy and medal going back to U10 AYSO. So, those $5 medals do mean something to the motivated players.



I agree with some of what you said.  I don't agree that a player has to be big into weights during their youth career.  If we were talking football or wrestling then yeah the weight room is a must in high school.  For girls soccer I think a good college strength and conditioning program is plenty.


----------



## Surfref

Legendary FC said:


> I agree with some of what you said.  I don't agree that a player has to be big into weights during their youth career.  If we were talking football or wrestling then yeah the weight room is a must in high school.  For girls soccer I think a good college strength and conditioning program is plenty.


I am not saying they need to be Olympic weight lifters, but they do need to know their way around the gym and at least know how to properly do basic weight lifting. Most college players are in the gym doing some type of weight work several times a week.  My DD started practices last Monday and the Freshmen are getting a good dose of the physicality and strength of college players.  They should at least be able to bench press, squat, etc. just the bar (45lbs) with no weights on it.  DD was shocked that half of the Freshmen this year could not lift the bar doing bench presses. My DD was lucky when she went in as a Freshman because she had had a trainer that her doing weight work and taught her proper technique.  They should also be doing a ton of crunches/core strength workouts several times a week if not daily.  College soccer is like having a 25-40 hour a week job depending on the program.  DD spends 4-7 hours a day with practices, classroom and speed/endurance/weight training.


----------



## Zoro

I think this is primarily sleep/lack of it, but it is common, even for elite athletes to gain weight.  
Colleges seem to be just bigger / better high schools when it comes to training, and train in groups.  Most I see train too much and sleep to little and get sloppy on diet.  SoCal Blues put together a G19 team of post freshman college players and most the parents shared the same opinion.  The Freshman 15 (lbs).  But as the team and players were so good, it was hard to tell if it mattered or not, or even made them better.

I still don't think colleges are as good as what a kid can do with a trainer / coach that provides individual attention.


----------



## espola

Surfref said:


> I am not saying they need to be Olympic weight lifters, but they do need to know their way around the gym and at least know how to properly do basic weight lifting. Most college players are in the gym doing some type of weight work several times a week.  My DD started practices last Monday and the Freshmen are getting a good dose of the physicality and strength of college players.  They should at least be able to bench press, squat, etc. just the bar (45lbs) with no weights on it.  DD was shocked that half of the Freshmen this year could not lift the bar doing bench presses. My DD was lucky when she went in as a Freshman because she had had a trainer that her doing weight work and taught her proper technique.  They should also be doing a ton of crunches/core strength workouts several times a week if not daily.  College soccer is like having a 25-40 hour a week job depending on the program.  DD spends 4-7 hours a day with practices, classroom and speed/endurance/weight training.


Please post a link to a game schedule so your fans (and thus her fans) can follow along this season.


----------



## Legendary FC

Surfref said:


> I am not saying they need to be Olympic weight lifters, but they do need to know their way around the gym and at least know how to properly do basic weight lifting. Most college players are in the gym doing some type of weight work several times a week.  My DD started practices last Monday and the Freshmen are getting a good dose of the physicality and strength of college players.  They should at least be able to bench press, squat, etc. just the bar (45lbs) with no weights on it.  DD was shocked that half of the Freshmen this year could not lift the bar doing bench presses. My DD was lucky when she went in as a Freshman because she had had a trainer that her doing weight work and taught her proper technique.  They should also be doing a ton of crunches/core strength workouts several times a week if not daily.  College soccer is like having a 25-40 hour a week job depending on the program.  DD spends 4-7 hours a day with practices, classroom and speed/endurance/weight training.



I understand that.  Mine is in her summer workout program that has them doing 3 days of weights, 4 days of conditioning and a kick around with the captains 4 days a week.  She hasn't really had any trouble with the physicality but she is about 5'9 150 lbs and is one of the bigger girls on the team.  I agree that weight training is important.  It just isn't the end of the world if they didn't get started until their senior year of high school or freshman year of college.


----------



## Zoro

I found me (parent) calling the coach worked out well.  It was "Hi, my daughter is a SoCal Blues GK and interested in playing for your school and before she gets us into something that costs a lot I wanted to know what positions you had....".  

(We actually used Captain U to see when there was a bite and then send video with a unique link.  When it was viewed I'd make the call.)

This is a bit different than the popular - they want the kids to call (which is very difficult for a 15/16 year old).   And was by a parent asking parent stuff up front, the calls could be teed up.  This worked well, along with Captain U and we spoke with every coach she wanted.  That was about 5 top 10 schools at the time and an Ivy she liked.  Some of those connections came from camps, but my point is - Parent calls first to do a business qualification.

I found the same true for my son (not soccer, not NCAA sport).  I could call and connect with the coach and qualify.  This worked for every place we looked at.

Coaches share the same interest parents do.  They don't want to waste time.


----------



## Zoro

Zoro said:


> ...
> An explained C can be fine.  More on that later if I have not mentioned already.


My son got a C- in pre-calc from a "bad" teacher start of sophomore year.  
In 10th spring a 10 grade very strict chem teacher.  He got invited by USA cycling to race in Europe - and he would need to miss class.
He got a C in that class and it correlated with his time out of country.  We also left the HS and went to online because of that ( we think online is less competitive than a big HS).  We also kept him in 4 years of independent PE so he could train for cycling and take fewer hard classes and keep it to 2-3 AP classes.   

So his transcript looked like he jumped around (he did) and got a C in an important class.  As his other later grades were good, that gave an opportunity for explanation.  And a story about following passion...yada yada the whole out-of-the-box thing which they eat up these days, which was also true.  
Coaches and admin though it was a good story and we think overlooked the C- from the (10th grade) fall before.  He ended up with as many/more doors open than DD (the soccer player).  We think it was the true story about his passion and focus that made that difference.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Zoro said:


> I found me (parent) calling the coach worked out well.  It was "Hi, my daughter is a SoCal Blues GK and interested in playing for your school and before she gets us into something that costs a lot I wanted to know what positions you had....".
> 
> (We actually used Captain U to see when there was a bite and then send video with a unique link.  When it was viewed I'd make the call.)
> 
> This is a bit different than the popular - they want the kids to call (which is very difficult for a 15/16 year old).   And was by a parent asking parent stuff up front, the calls could be teed up.  This worked well, along with Captain U and we spoke with every coach she wanted.  That was about 5 top 10 schools at the time and an Ivy she liked.  Some of those connections came from camps, but my point is - Parent calls first to do a business qualification.
> 
> I found the same true for my son (not soccer, not NCAA sport).  I could call and connect with the coach and qualify.  This worked for every place we looked at.
> 
> Coaches share the same interest parents do.  They don't want to waste time.



My daughter's experience was very different.  The only real talking that her father or I did was on her unofficial visits and when we were talking money.  We helped her with the questions to ask and what to put into emails but we made her own the process herself.  She didn't have a huge list of schools that she was interested in so it made the process a little easier.


----------



## Zoro

I guess my point is - coaches tolerate it.   They may say kid should call first, but if short and to the point (money and space) they seem to be happy to talk to dad and go next step.

We just felt we parents could do it better than DD.   Finding the best college was not about parenting or child (or soccer) development.  It was about getting what we thought best.  So ... it was rigged by mom and dad. And she thanks us for it.  
My communication was like you, talking money.  Just it was done up front.

In selling before showing a product - "Why, what and budget" should be known.   Once there is agreement then they get access to the product.  Certainly that is not the only way to sell, or the only way to get into colleges.


----------



## Zerodenero

Zoro said:


> I guess my point is - coaches tolerate it.   They may say kid should call first, but if short and to the point (money and space) they seem to be happy to talk to dad and go next step.
> 
> We just felt we parents could do it better than DD.   Finding the best college was not about parenting or child (or soccer) development.  It was about getting what we thought best.  So ... it was rigged by mom and dad. And she thanks us for it.
> My communication was like you, talking money.  Just it was done up front.
> 
> In selling before showing a product - "Why, what and budget" should be known.   Once there is agreement then they get access to the product.  Certainly that is not the only way to sell, or the only way to get into colleges.


I suppose if your dd achieved her academic goal, then that's what matters.

For us (dd, wife & i), guiding her thru the journey was part of the life lesson. "Because I love u Susie"......


----------



## gkrent

MakeAPlay said:


> My daughter's experience was very different.  The only real talking that her father or I did was on her unofficial visits and when we were talking money.  We helped her with the questions to ask and what to put into emails but we made her own the process herself.  She didn't have a huge list of schools that she was interested in so it made the process a little easier.


This was the experience we had with ours.


----------



## Zoro

@gkrent ent and @Zerodenero You both seem to be saying leaving it to your kid works better than you doing it, but it is not clear if you are recommending that, or just reporting you did that.
Who do you think making first contact would lead to the better deal (money, access, fav school)?


----------



## espola

@Zerodenero You both seem to be saying leaving it to your kid works better than you doing it, but it is not clear if you are recommending that, or just reporting you did that.
Who do you think making first contact would lead to the better deal (money, access, fav school)?[/QUOTE]

I was letting my son handle most of the first contacts that came in starting the summer after his HS Junior year, which was right after his ODP year.  We regularly discussed the schools that had contacted him and which ones he was interested in.   I went on all the campus visits and made sure to include questions about finances.

He was away at soccer camp for a week that summer, so I took one call for him from a coach at Akron.  I totally screwed up that call, saying that I didn't even know they had a D1 soccer team.  Jumping ahead -- that fall Akron lost the NCAA final in kicks, and in 2010 (my son's first college season) they won it all with the Final 4 played at UC Santa Barbara.


----------



## Calisoccer11

Zoro said:


> My son got a C- in pre-calc from a "bad" teacher start of sophomore year.
> In 10th spring a 10 grade very strict chem teacher.  He got invited by USA cycling to race in Europe - and he would need to miss class.
> He got a C in that class and it correlated with his time out of country.  We also left the HS and went to online because of that ( we think online is less competitive than a big HS).  We also kept him in 4 years of independent PE so he could train for cycling and take fewer hard classes and keep it to 2-3 AP classes.
> 
> So his transcript looked like he jumped around (he did) and got a C in an important class.  As his other later grades were good, that gave an opportunity for explanation.  And a story about following passion...yada yada the whole out-of-the-box thing which they eat up these days, which was also true.
> Coaches and admin though it was a good story and we think overlooked the C- from the (10th grade) fall before.  He ended up with as many/more doors open than DD (the soccer player).  We think it was the true story about his passion and focus that made that difference.


My son is starting the process of applying to colleges and most of the advice we have been given over the years is to make sure he shows his "passion" for what he likes.  Sounds like your son did just that and it paid off!  Congrats!  I like hearing about these experiences from other parents because I'm sure at the time, it was a little worrisome.


----------



## Zoro

I assume you were spending time arguing with JAP vs studying soccer and school rankings and program fit.


----------



## espola

Zoro said:


> I assume you were spending time arguing with JAP vs studying soccer and school rankings and program fit.


I let my son worry about the soccer programs. When he told me which schools he was interested in, I looked up their academic ratings and cost.  

My initial prejudice was for SDSU and Creighton.  My wife wanted USD.  I vetoed only UCLA and UCSB.  As it turned out, we could have saved a lot of time and effort if I had just listened to the mom whose son had committed early to UC Davis and then immediately started "recruiting" us.


----------



## Zerodenero

Zoro said:


> @gkrent ent and @Zerodenero You both seem to be saying leaving it to your kid works better than you doing it, but it is not clear if you are recommending that, or just reporting you did that.
> Who do you think making first contact would lead to the better deal (money, access, fav school)?


Z- Reporting & recommending. Your method worked for your dd which is awesome.

Our method was more in line with Makeaplay, gkrent and others who were not the forefront of contact, she was. We were advisors, mentors and council for her to experience the process. When it came down to $$ and on campus interface, that's when mama/papa bear accompanied and got down to negotiating the deal.

At the end of the day we wanted our DD to be vested mentally/physically in the process and really want the opportunity because like you mentioned earlier in this thread - playing ball in college is a job.

Fortunately for her, the coaching staff at her future home in the NE felt the same.


----------



## soccerobserver

Quick question...if DD is looking at an Ivy or a small independent liberal arts D3 what is there for Mom and Dad to negotiate? For all but the extreme elite, it was less of a negotiation and more of a due diligence trip making sure all the right questions got asked and answered about playing time, chemistry, taking a year off, exams, study abroad, permitted majors etc...any examples of what was negotiated would be appreciated...my daughter initiated and handled the process herself... as she progressed, her HS coach and I would check in to monitor her progress and make sure she did her research...of course we would have done it faster than she did but my thinking was she has to learn how to do these things on her own at some point anyway...


----------



## Zoro

Calisoccer11 said:


> ...  I like hearing about these experiences from other parents because I'm sure at the time, it was a little worrisome.


Sharing our experiences which I had done over 7+ years in the old site and 1,000s of emails - is kinda tough. 

My summary:
-Know where your kids fit and try to get a school, and/or get money that they would not get without their sport. 
Shoot higher than where you would expect their peers to end up.
-They are the product, coach is the buyer, you are the agent/salesperson. 
-Apply sales and marketing strategy that works with long lead time big ticket items.
-Kids are generally not capable at doing what you can do.  But when the time is right they can take over. 

My son finally got it - "encouraging me" and "leading the way" was code for us doing all the work.  But the hand-off was not too late.


----------



## gkrent

Zoro said:


> @gkrent ent and @Zerodenero You both seem to be saying leaving it to your kid works better than you doing it, but it is not clear if you are recommending that, or just reporting you did that.
> Who do you think making first contact would lead to the better deal (money, access, fav school)?


I should clarify:  First contact was always made with my kids coaches who eventually would set up a call.  Then, my kids called and talked to the coaches, let them give them their pitch, etc.  It obviously depends on the kid, but I think it makes a great first impression to the coach if the kid can have the confidence to call, introduce themselves, ask key questions about the program, and demonstrate listening skills on a phone call.   From there, my kids report back to me about the conversation and we go from there.  

I helped out with talking points prior to the call to ensure that its productive, but after a few phone calls with a few different coaches, they got the hang of it.

Some calls were not set up, DD was just reaching out to the program and finally got through to them.   In these cases the dialog went a little differently but again I helped out with talking points so that time was used wisely.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a parent contacting the coach;  each parent knows their kid best and if they know their kid has trouble with "giving good phone" that might be the right move for them.


----------



## Zoro

soccerobserver said:


> Quick question...if DD is looking at an Ivy or a small independent liberal arts D3 what is there for Mom and Dad to negotiate? For all but the extreme elite, it was less of a negotiation and more of a due diligence trip making sure all the right questions got asked and answered about playing time, chemistry, taking a year off, exams, study abroad, permitted majors etc...any examples of what was negotiated would be appreciated...my daughter initiated and handled the process herself... as she progressed, her HS coach and I would check in to monitor her progress and make sure she did her research...of course we would have done it faster than she did but my thinking was she has to learn how to do these things on her own at some point anyway...


Making coach contact and generating coach interest, school fit, logistics on visit.  I talked to Columbia, Harvard and Dartmouth.  DD had a major in mind and at the time soccer ranking was important to her.  As DD knew the Dartmouth coach from a Stanford camp she and mom went there and DD did the sleep over thing.  That made the choice clear and DD selected ND the following week.  Dartmouth coach ended up at ND BTW...
So in all cases I called first.  I emailed links to DD's videos (mine of her).  I spoke with those coaches about cost of living, where students live and school calendar, nearby airports and transportation.  All logistics things a parent might ask that a kid might not.  I never spoke about grades or test scores or soccer/sport other than she was a GK.


----------



## Zoro

Zoro said:


> If your family has demonstrated financial need or are an ethnic background that gets financial aide you *stand a lower chance *of getting soccer money than if not.


@Justafan you disagreed.  I expected someone to.  There are subtle points to my statement.  But here is why it is true.
If you don't go to DI you stand a lower chance of getting money - because DII, DIII give less money by definition - there is lower chance.  So scope is DI.   Soccer is merit money.  At the top DIs sports are the only merit money allowed and Ivy's give nothing for merit.  While I expect some players may get non-soccer merit and soccer merit - I think it is odd enough to not really affect chances.  Suzy with all As and possible merit money for grades and soccer, would, in reality likely go to a better school - that does not give money for grades.  So again, the chances are lower this would happen.   Need and ethnic group remain the major areas money is given for a soccer player in a DI.  I can't think of other areas that might affect any chances of getting money on a big scale.

Coaches have so much money to give.  If a player has money elsewhere, coaches will use that money over their soccer scholarship money.  If financial aide determines Suzy needs $25K / year and will grant her $25K and coach award $15K in soccer money,  Suzy now gets $10K from the school.   Same is true for external money.  If financial Aid say $25 and rich uncle or external scholarship is given the financial aid grant is reduced by that amount and it is required to report that money.   So why would any coach give any money to Suzy when it just would just offset the grant amount.  They don't.  they save their money for putting together the best team.


----------



## Sped

espola said:


> I let my son worry about the soccer programs. When he told me which schools he was interested in, I looked up their academic ratings and cost.
> 
> My initial prejudice was for SDSU and Creighton.  My wife wanted USD.  I vetoed only UCLA and UCSB.  As it turned out, we could have saved a lot of time and effort if I had just listened to the mom whose son had committed early to UC Davis and then immediately started "recruiting" us.


Hold on, because this impacts how I read any and every one of your posts going forward.  Did you just say you wanted SDSU and Creighton, and vetoed UCLA and UCSB?


----------



## Zerodenero

soccerobserver said:


> Quick question...if DD is looking at an Ivy or a small independent liberal arts D3 what is there for Mom and Dad to negotiate? For all but the extreme elite, it was less of a negotiation and more of a due diligence trip making sure all the right questions got asked and answered about playing time, chemistry, taking a year off, exams, study abroad, permitted majors etc...any examples of what was negotiated would be appreciated...my daughter initiated and handled the process herself... as she progressed, her HS coach and I would check in to monitor her progress and make sure she did her research...of course we would have done it faster than she did but my thinking was she has to learn how to do these things on her own at some point anyway...


Observer - Not sure there's much I can add what Z's abundantly contributed to this (_thank you Z- I've been reading your shared insight for years_)....especially on the financial/needs base $$, minority $$, grant $$, common data set info etc......so I'll just clarify my statement that we simply whiteboarded all of the due diligence, gauged the coaches interest level, the  "negotiation" for her final round of schools (Ivies & DIII Academic) we measured where they (the coaches) wanted/required her to be on their academic index for her class..... When they said we only need you to get "xo" for this test, x.y GPA, and it matched her level of love for the school _._.......bingo - we found the winner.


----------



## Zoro

The number is 3.6 non weighted GPA, 600 in each area of the SAT (typical reading/math only) for any DI college in any varsity sport to get in.  ACT 30 maybe, 32 for sure.
If you are special, they dip lower.  Many schools go 1,100 for the two and higher grades.   Hit that without a sport it is not doable at near the confidence level.
That is pretty much the bar for all Ivy's, Northwestern, Stanford, Duke, Notre Dame - that top 20 group.
Son for rowing - same.  
One of the coaches I fell in love with over all I've dealt with was Martin at Princeton - rowing.  Such a great guy and such a talent.  The boat he was talking about here - getting the feeling did some nice winning.
Anyway it was a great trip with son and although we all thought Princeton was too much school - it was obtainable - if he wanted to row.  I just think this is beautiful to watch.


----------



## Zoro

If you have a kid willing to serve, and an athlete - esp a female, check out the service academy.
It is not about that some kids at Harvard or Princeton is a 170IQ (if you have one of those ignore my comments).

The difference between going in and coming out is the most stark at the service academies.

It is about what the service academies do with your basic smart kid I'm so impressed by.  All (so even the football players) freshman take calculus, engineering, language (mine doing Russian), leadership courses and history of war (you could just call it history).  And while not kicking butt vs DI recruited athletes at other colleges, it is a bit less important (other than beat Army).  They are athletes.  Looking at some, I question that, but the mean scores for men for the school is 12 pull-ups, 71 situps, 48 pushups, 1:53 600yd run and about a 6 min mile - going in.  Girls are also competitive.  And they pay your kid to attend.  Of course kid needs to want to serve and know that they may end up giving their life for their country.   But...they tend to die less than kids hanging around home (that is now).  No motorcycles allowed.

They also have the highest mid-career salaries.


----------



## espola

Sped said:


> Hold on, because this impacts how I read any and every one of your posts going forward.  Did you just say you wanted SDSU and Creighton, and vetoed UCLA and UCSB?


Yes.


----------



## Zoro

espola said:


> Yes.


Well I'd select Davis over those and I know some who might hire Davis over those.  UCLA and UCSB (and Ivy's) are group think schools.  Ideally I'd avoid the UCs...


----------



## espola

Zoro said:


> Well I'd select Davis over those and I know some who might hire Davis over those.  UCLA and UCSB (and Ivy's) are group think schools.  Ideally I'd avoid the UCs...


Your opinions have always been a little odd.  I hope no one takes you too seriously.


----------



## Zoro

espola said:


> Your opinions have always been a little odd.  I hope no one takes you too seriously.


2 Ps in a pod

Was going to say until JAP shows up someone needs to carry the mantle.  Then I though no.


----------



## Zoro

Do inspiring videos and create a YouTube video channel.


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## mirage

Zoro said:


> The number is 3.6 non weighted GPA, 600 in each area of the SAT (typical reading/math only) for any DI college in any varsity sport to get in.  ACT 30 maybe, 32 for sure.
> If you are special, they dip lower.  Many schools go 1,100 for the two and higher grades.   Hit that without a sport it is not doable at near the confidence level....


Not arguing but what we've learned is not what's stated herein.

For Ivy's and other private top 20, the recruiting class requires Academic Index (AI) average of 200 (or equivalent of AI, since not every school uses it).  Composition of AI is the two SAT components (or ACT), two SAT Subject test scores, unweighted GPA.  Based on what we've seen, GPA of 3.6 and 600 each will not get you close to 200.  There is an agreement within Ivy League, we've been told, that states athletes will be representative of institution's student bodies and not be the exceptions from it.  They have many rules above and beyond NCAA rules, including recruiting and engagement time allowed for sports.

Clearly, since its an average, some can to be lower, but it also says some needs to be higher, if that's the case.  EVERY coach we've spoken with look for higher AI so that they have margin to recruit lower AI player.  In other words, being on the lower end (below average AI) does not help and makes the player less attractive.  Yes, if one is exceptional, they'll try to make the lower AI work somehow but at this level of competition for those 6~8 slots/school, everyone is quite exceptional.


----------



## Zoro

@mirage sounds like you are more current than when I was looking and recently I had only talked to one Ivy.  I had not heard the term given to AI but certainly I know it is a combo they look at.

My 3.6 number and 600 was stated as a low bar, not an average, and not ridged.  It is what coaches say, not what Admin does.  In the maybe 20 school coaches I have talked to, none have asked for higher than that to get in.  I have only spoken with a few schools admin folks, but as we can see what admin actually does that seems less important than what a coach says.

But you (not mirage you - the general you, should have said ya'll but I'm not Southern) can use actual facts to assist in what you look for.
The actual 25 percentile can be found in the Common Data Set (posted about above - section C9).  You can see what they actually do vs what they say they do.  I don't know how to get an AI number from the Common Data Set because the SAT/ACT and grades are listed separately and we don't know which pair go together, but it is good enough to know they do dip lower - for somebody.  It may even be a question to ask the coach - "Hey you guys let in 3.7% last year that have reading SATs in the 500s, some in the 400s - who are they?" (actual for Stanford - http://ucomm.stanford.edu/cds/2015, similar for Harvard).  So what I am saying is there is a chance for an SAT in the 400s, in any area, to get into Stanford or Harvard.  It is likely not a soccer player.

It was interesting to me, and a point of pride that my DD's incoming year 2012 the 25 percentile achievement (ACT) ND was higher than any DI.   The average, and top were not (so the others have smarter), but who they actually let in and how low they dipped was (so the others also had lower achievers).  And it was only true on the achievement side, not the aptitude side (SAT).  I had been looking at the difference between the 25 and 75 percentiles that are published and thinking that a wide gap might mean the athletes are less respected.  DD heard that is the case at some schools.  The thought you are here because you are a jock...  While not a major criteria for DD, she did pick a school were the ACT delta between 25th and 75 was only 2-3 points vs some schools where it was much more.


----------



## Sped

espola said:


> Yes.


I have to know why...?


----------



## Glen

mirage said:


> Not arguing but what we've learned is not what's stated herein.
> 
> For Ivy's and other private top 20, the recruiting class requires Academic Index (AI) average of 200 (or equivalent of AI, since not every school uses it).  Composition of AI is the two SAT components (or ACT), two SAT Subject test scores, unweighted GPA.  Based on what we've seen, GPA of 3.6 and 600 each will not get you close to 200.  There is an agreement within Ivy League, we've been told, that states athletes will be representative of institution's student bodies and not be the exceptions from it.  They have many rules above and beyond NCAA rules, including recruiting and engagement time allowed for sports.
> 
> Clearly, since its an average, some can to be lower, but it also says some needs to be higher, if that's the case.  EVERY coach we've spoken with look for higher AI so that they have margin to recruit lower AI player.  In other words, being on the lower end (below average AI) does not help and makes the player less attractive.  Yes, if one is exceptional, they'll try to make the lower AI work somehow but at this level of competition for those 6~8 slots/school, everyone is quite exceptional.


For these schools, I would also encourage requesting (1) a "likely letter" from the admissions offices, and (2) an early read of the school's financial aid.  The coach has a good sense for admissions, but you can be confident that the coach vetted it with the admissions office if you get the likely letter.  The Ivys also have a matching financial aid system - which is pretty spectacular these days.  The best offer you receive will be matched by the other schools.  The general belief is that HYP provide the best packages so even if you are interested in say, Columbia, get a financial aid offer from an HYP school so that Columbia has to match it.


----------



## espola

Sped said:


> I have to know why...?


I attended SDSU and I saw it as the best local choice.  Creighton was suggested by one of my son's coaches, their major fall sport is soccer (no football), and they had given a soccer friend a full-ride scholarship.  On the other hand, my wife saw USD as the best local choice.  We got more or less equivalent offers from SDSU and USD.  Creighton didn't respond until he had already committed to UC Davis - they might have had the inner track if they had been active sooner.

My son wanted to get out of town. Davis was near to where his girlfriend was going to school (San Francisco State), and he had several friends there.  Financially, the Davis offer was about the same as from SDSU and USD, so I had no issue with his choice.  The school has excellent academics and a small-town atmosphere just across the street.  The first day we visited there, as soon as I stepped out of the car near his friend's on-campus apartment I could smell the cow barns down the street, which reminded me of where I grew up.

Davis worked out well for him in a soccer sense - he missed only 6 games in 4 years.  When he needed 2 extra quarters to get his degree, the Athletic Department gave him an hourly job that netted about the same as his scholarship.  He now has a job and apartment in San Francisco that make me jealous.

I vetoed UCLA because I was afraid he would get lost in their big athletic program, and UCSB because of the reputation of its coach.  It made me happy that 2 of his goals were game-winners against UCLA and UCSB.


----------



## MakeAPlay

gkrent said:


> This was the experience we had with ours.



Congrats on your daughter getting called into the U17 trip to Brazil!  The kids enjoy those international trips.  Let's hope that BJ is really serious about opening up the GK job.  He called in 5 keepers and has made some changes recently so she has a solid chance to make the team.


----------



## goal123

MakeAPlay said:


> Congrats on your daughter getting called into the U17 trip to Brazil!  The kids enjoy those international trips.  Let's hope that BJ is really serious about opening up the GK job.  He called in 5 keepers and has made some changes recently so she has a solid chance to make the team.


They are playing Brazil in Michigan.  
http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/u17-wnt-roster-for-friendlies-vs-brazil_aid39525
Not sure you want to head to Brazil to play friendlies when the Olympics are going on.  Michigan is a better choice.


----------



## gkrent

MakeAPlay said:


> Congrats on your daughter getting called into the U17 trip to Brazil!  The kids enjoy those international trips.  Let's hope that BJ is really serious about opening up the GK job.  He called in 5 keepers and has made some changes recently so she has a solid chance to make the team.


Thanks!   its actually in Michigan, and they are playing friendlies _with_ Brazil.  Who know whats in store for her?  We thought he had his mind made up but apparently between injuries, etc., anything could happen!


----------



## f1nfutbol fan

I am very happy that this thread exists / was created. Go socalsoccer forums!


----------



## Zerodenero

f1nfutbol fan said:


> I am very happy that this thread exists / was created. Go socalsoccer forums!


FF1 - Here's an informative read we used as a guideline. Grades/aptitude +  athletics + any other qualities that set your kid apart from the pack  = opprotunity - best of luck!!

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=ebp0BgAAQBAJ&source=productsearch&utm_source=HA_Desktop_US&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=PLA&pcampaignid=MKTAD0930BO1&gl=US&gclid=CMDc48Xym84CFQtvMgod21ACsg&gclsrc=ds


----------



## MakeAPlay

push_up said:


> It is true on both.  If your kid can't get an A doing honors let alone AP don't do it.  It is not worth it.


It is not worth it if you don't think that your kid can compete.  To honestly advocate that kids shouldn't take a rigorous course load in order to prepare for college is ludicrous.  Maybe it's not worth it if your kids eyes are set on Arizona St. or Grand Canyon but if they are trying to get into Yale, Stanford, Duke or another top school the coaches demand academic rigor.  Even Mallory Pugh took calculus this past year.


----------



## Zoro

I am repeating myself but if you have not looked at the Common Data Set for the schools you are interested in you are not past step 1.  Do that.


A's in AP Calc A/B and 2300 SAT will not get your kid the opportunity (acceptance rate) at an Ivy (or similar) that an ECNL player (or equivalent)  with an AP Calc B and 1,800 SAT.  
Sure - all Bs, a few Cs and they are likely out.  But give me academic HS rank 5%-30% starting ECNLish player over academic rank 1%-2% any day for getting in.


----------



## MessiFTW

Trying to get MAP to understand anything other than your daughter is dumb and plays like a JUCO player and my daughter took calculus and is bettor than Pugh is imposible.  It was a good try though Zoro.


----------



## Zoro

I didn't think it mattered how smart my DD was (in a certain range) - that was/is my point.   Find a school where kid is at least 25th percentile - that is a whole bunch of schools for most SoCal soccer families.

And we never spoke of it in the application process.  We knew, Randy Waldrum (coach) knew talking to her and it did not need to be discussed other than to say "they're fine".

Could she have been accepted without soccer - stats say less than 50%.

With soccer - she applied to just one school.

While I'm not opposed to sharing my DD's calc grades (or any others), she really was not interested in math.   We did not use grades for getting into college, we used soccer.


----------



## Zoro

At the time we used CaptainU


----------



## Zerodenero

MakeAPlay said:


> It is not worth it if you don't think that your kid can compete.  To honestly advocate that kids shouldn't take a rigorous course load in order to prepare for college is ludicrous.  Maybe it's not worth it if your kids eyes are set on Arizona St. or Grand Canyon but if they are trying to get into Yale, Stanford, Duke or another top school the coaches demand academic rigor.  Even Mallory Pugh took calculus this past year.


Make: I might be redundant here, but I think there's merit to both and It really depends on what the end game is.

Uncommitted parents:
If a kid is a STUD on the field but but a DUD in the class....obvi the Ivys or top tier academic D3's are out......but also the Dukes/stanford/ucla/Virginia/Mich/ND are prob not a good fit.

The good news is that there are many good universities/college options for girls across the academic spectrum. We've found it to be about finding the right fit (academically, emotionally, geographically, demographically, financially). Which is why doing a triage of investigation and thorough due diligence about your college is so very important.

As Z has clearly described, for many parents on this forum.....soccer is the golden ticket to get your kid to the front of the line - Find the right line.


----------



## MessiFTW

MAP believes that unless your kid is a Power5 conference commit (and takes calculus in HS) with an athletic scholarship she is as worthless as a dung pile.  She also believes if your DD is uncommitted as a freshman you are a failure as a parent and should have your DD quit playing soccer.


----------



## Zoro

This post, of course is from our family values.
If kid is trying really hard and doing the best they can and barely getting Cs - that that soccer time back and get them to high C/Bs.  
If they are on the YWNT and getting C's, any success in the final end game, is going to be difficult.

Other than those two (so kid is pretty good ECNL bench and C/B student) I can't imagine a setting soccer would not help.
-Use it to get in and make your kid as likely for entrance as an B/C student.
-Use it to get money
-Use it to keep you kid in a controlled setting their 1st year

Still, always select a school where they want to be without soccer, as most - esp at the power 5 - will not be playing after a few years (Notre Dame had 1 senior on the team DD's 1st year.).


----------



## MakeAPlay

MessiFTW said:


> MAP believes that unless your kid is a Power5 conference commit (and takes calculus in HS) with an athletic scholarship she is as worthless as a dung pile.  She also believes if your DD is uncommitted as a freshman you are a failure as a parent and should have your DD quit playing soccer.



Nope.  I just believe that you are a piece of crap and you better hope that the apple is picked off the tree and planted in another state because tools like you are one of the big reasons Arizona sucks.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MessiFTW said:


> Trying to get MAP to understand anything other than your daughter is dumb and plays like a JUCO player and my daughter took calculus and is bettor than Pugh is imposible.  It was a good try though Zoro.


Nope again.  I will repeat.  Whenever I quote you or your 3 other aliases I am simply pointing out that you are a piece of crap.  Let's hope that your wife is a much better parent and much less of an A-hole.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Zoro said:


> This post, of course is from our family values.
> If kid is trying really hard and doing the best they can and barely getting Cs - that that soccer time back and get them to high C/Bs.
> If they are on the YWNT and getting C's, any success in the final end game, is going to be difficult.
> 
> Other than those two (so kid is pretty good ECNL bench and C/B student) I can't imagine a setting soccer would not help.
> -Use it to get in and make your kid as likely for entrance as an B/C student.
> -Use it to get money
> -Use it to keep you kid in a controlled setting their 1st year
> 
> Still, always select a school where they want to be without soccer, as most - esp at the power 5 - will not be playing after a few years (Notre Dame had 1 senior on the team DD's 1st year.).



I think that you might be a little pessimistic about the power 5 conference schools Zoro.  My players team only loses one or two players a year and it is playing time related 99% of the time.  They have a 7 member senior class and from our interactions with the coaching staff they are clear to ALL of their recruits where they fit into the picture even the recruited walkons.  One common thread among all of the recruits in her class is great grades and a rigorous course of study.  Her incoming recruiting class has over a 3.9 average with every player taking an AP curriculum (other than the foreign players) and there is only one player player committed in any class that I wouldn't consider an exceptional student and soccer will get her in.

Glad to see you made it to the new forum you are very informative.


----------



## Zerodenero

MakeAPlay said:


> I think that you might be a little pessimistic about the power 5 conference schools Zoro...........  One common thread among all of the recruits in her class is great grades and a rigorous course of study.  Her incoming recruiting class has over a 3.9 average with every player taking an AP curriculum (other than the foreign players) and there is only one player player committed in any class that I wouldn't consider an exceptional student and soccer will get her in.


So I think this is the part that is really so cool......let's pick a sport.... for my dd-soccer, for others....basketball, softball, volleyball, football etc. .....schools like Stanford, duke, ucla, Virginia, ND, NW that have high academic standards AND yet are still perennial athletic powerhouse programs is amazing.


----------



## MessiFTW

There you go again.  My kid is the best, my kid's school is the best, my kids grades are the best, my kids upperclasswomen are the best, and I am the best while every other kid is dumb, their parents are dumb, where they live is dumb, and their opinions are dumb.  You are a class act, MAP.

SHAME
SHAME
SHAME
SHAME
SHAME


----------



## Zoro

MakeAPlay said:


> I think that you might be a little pessimistic about the power 5 conference schools Zoro.  My players team only loses one or two players a year and it is playing time related 99% of the time.  They have a 7 member senior class and from our interactions with the coaching staff they are clear to ALL of their recruits where they fit into the picture even the recruited walkons.  One common thread among all of the recruits in her class is great grades and a rigorous course of study.  Her incoming recruiting class has over a 3.9 average with every player taking an AP curriculum (other than the foreign players) and there is only one player player committed in any class that I wouldn't consider an exceptional student and soccer will get her in.
> 
> Glad to see you made it to the new forum you are very informative.


I think you are right.  Attrition rate seems to have gone down since I looked at the batch of schools around 2010.

I don't know what the power 5 conferences are.  I just always looked at the schools that were top 100 is soccer (top 30%) and top 100 academically (top 4%)  and that also had the major my DD wanted.  That tends to end up being about 5-10 schools then you narrow from there.  

That 3.9 average is a number that means more in the context of the HS they came from.  DD's school a 4.75 was possible over 4 years if you did not play soccer.  It was (I think) 4.5 if you did.  Then there are how many years it is averaged over.  The whole thing on GPA is not very well defined.  Which is why many (Ivy's are behind) schools like Stanford, ND use only a 4.0 scale, and they still vary on how many years they average.  The Common Data Set top grade tier is >3.75/4.00.  
Some schools give 6.0s and some give 5.0 for some PE classes (San Clemente HS for IB Dance).


----------



## Zoro

MessiFTW said:


> There you go again.  My kid is the best, my kid's school is the best, my kids grades are the best, my kids upperclasswomen are the best, and I am the best while every other kid is dumb, their parents are dumb, where they live is dumb, and their opinions are dumb.  You are a class act, MAP.
> 
> SHAME
> SHAME
> SHAME
> SHAME
> SHAME


I'm here bragging too.  But also trying to point people to the facts, and finding what were facts in 2010 are not now.
When you post team GPAs that are over the top of the scale for the Common Data Set it is good to ask why.  The likely answer is there are weighted numbers being used.  Which makes 3.9 much more believable.  I don't know ave GPAs.  I didn't ask and didn't look.  A 3.75 top on CDS with no granularity made is an un-useful number.  ACT/SAT score mean more as they are tied to a national standard.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Zoro said:


> I'm here bragging too.  But also trying to point people to the facts, and finding what were facts in 2010 are not now.
> When you post team GPAs that are over the top of the scale for the Common Data Set it is good to ask why.  The likely answer is there are weighted numbers being used.  Which makes 3.9 much more believable.  I don't know ave GPAs.  I didn't ask and didn't look.  A 3.75 top on CDS with no granularity made is an un-useful number.  ACT/SAT score mean more as they are tied to a national standard.


I'm not sure what any of the SAT/ACT scores are other than my players and it was in the top 10th percentile for the university's most recent incoming class.  I'm pretty sure the rest of the players are in the upper 25%.  I think that the lowest weighted GPA was in the 3.7-3.8 range and most of the girls were unweighted 3.9-4.0 students.  Two players had over 4.4 gpa's.  I'm not sure how they figured the international students gpa's into the numbers that they released but I do know that only one was required to take the TOEFL and she spent two years going to HS in the US and was a straight A student there.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MessiFTW said:


> There you go again.  My kid is the best, my kid's school is the best, my kids grades are the best, my kids upperclasswomen are the best, and I am the best while every other kid is dumb, their parents are dumb, where they live is dumb, and their opinions are dumb.  You are a class act, MAP.
> 
> SHAME
> SHAME
> SHAME
> SHAME
> SHAME


Nope just you and your other 3 aliases.  I know all of them jerk.  I am going to continue to rail on you and your BS about crappy SoCal soccer.  Stop being so bitter because your kids experience sucked and you got bullied off the Arizona forum for being obnoxious.

You are such a loser.  Who has the time to log in under 4 screen names just to boo someone's posts?  You must have a terrible home life.  Your kid can feel your negative energy you know.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Zerodenero said:


> So I think this is the part that is really so cool......let's pick a sport.... for my dd-soccer, for others....basketball, softball, volleyball, football etc. .....schools like Stanford, duke, ucla, Virginia, ND, NW that have high academic standards AND yet are still perennial athletic powerhouse programs is amazing.


Our daughters are much luckier than our sons in that regard!!  God bless Title IX and God Bless the United States of America!


----------



## MessiFTW

MakeAPlay said:


> Nope just you and your other 3 aliases.  I know all of them jerk.  I am going to continue to rail on you and your BS about crappy SoCal soccer.  Stop being so bitter because your kids experience sucked and you got bullied off the Arizona forum for being obnoxious.
> 
> You are such a loser.  Who has the time to log in under 4 screen names just to boo someone's posts?  You must have a terrible home life.  Your kid can feel your negative energy you know.


I bet your daughter would be ashamed about what you write about.  You are a very bitter and insecure person.  I feel sad for you.


----------



## Zoro

We are diluting the point of the thread.  I posted in the last forum my kid is a smarter than any kid on this forum.  But, all this GPA stuff is not relevant.  I'd guess 20% have a GPA OK for Ivy and group, 50% for UCLA... And group.
IMO if your kids is going in at top of school you left a lot on the table, if the school is not already a top academic one.  Shoot for them to be 25%.   Then they come out with a degree that says they are more than they are .    Weird concept, but if your kid can use soccer to give them the appearance of being a GPA higher, do it.


----------



## espola

MakeAPlay said:


> Our daughters are much luckier than our sons in that regard!!  God bless Title IX and God Bless the United States of America!


Title IX does not make our daughters luckier than our sons.  It makes them equally lucky.


----------



## espola

Zoro said:


> We are diluting the to point of the thread.  I posted in the last forum my kid is a smarter than any kid on this forum.  But, all this GPA stuff is not relevant.  I'd guess 20% have a GPA OK for Ivy and group, 50% for UCLA... And group.
> IMO if your kids is going in at top of school you left a lot on the table, if the school is not already a top academic one.  Shoot for them to be 25%.   Then they come out with a degree that says they are more than they are .    Weird concept, but if your kid can use soccer to give them the appearance of being a GPA higher, do it.


I see your opinions are still rather odd.


----------



## MessiFTW

espola said:


> Title IX does not make our daughters luckier than our sons.  It makes them equally lucky.


MAP is fighting her IQ every time she posts.  Failing to give it the appearance of being higher.


----------



## Zoro

This was a seeing who was biting technique...
http://socalsoccer.com/threads/video-sharing.142/#post-3264


----------



## MessiFTW

You can't do this on YouTube any longer.  They flag the video so you are unable to post multiple versions using different file names.


----------



## Zoro

espola said:


> I see your opinions are still rather odd.


I assume the shoot for the 25% part, maybe everything, but more on that.

Your kids grades, test score and soccer ability are their currency for getting in.  Other things are too like legacy, donations, friends in high places, being the most interesting kid in the world and building houses for the poor in Africa.  All play into admissions.  But for the first ones only here is my odd reasoning.

Using two higher ranked schools as examples.  A Player is smart and has 700 SAT Reading and Math.  they are an A and B student with 3.6/4 GPA.

At UC Davis the 75th percentile  SAT Reading/Math = 630/710 (they are good in math) ACT 30 (C9) https://www.sariweb.ucdavis.edu/commondataset/cds20152016.pdf
At Princeton the 25th percentile  SAT Reading/Math = 690/700 ACT 32 https://registrar.princeton.edu/university_enrollment_sta/CDS2015-16.pdf

If the coaches want you for soccer  - at both schools both SAT and Grades are good enough for both.
I think the one where the player is in the 25% makes them look better.

Same kind of pairing can be done on a Cal-State vs a UC.  The 75% at a Cal-State is pretty close to a 25% at a UC.  If the kid has a choice the one where they are in the 25% looks better.


----------



## Zoro

MessiFTW said:


> You can't do this on YouTube any longer.  They flag the video so you are unable to post multiple versions using different file names.


They caught me?


----------



## espola

Zoro said:


> I assume the shoot for the 25% part, maybe everything, but more on that.
> 
> Your kids grades, test score and soccer ability are their currency for getting in.  Other things are too like legacy, donations, friends in high places, being the most interesting kid in the world and building houses for the poor in Africa.  All play into admissions.  But for the first ones only here is my odd reasoning.
> 
> Using two higher ranked schools as examples.  A Player is smart and has 700 SAT Reading and Math.  they are an A and B student with 3.6/4 GPA.
> 
> At UC Davis the 75th percentile  SAT Reading/Math = 630/710 (they are good in math) ACT 30 (C9) https://www.sariweb.ucdavis.edu/commondataset/cds20152016.pdf
> At Princeton the 25th percentile  SAT Reading/Math = 690/700 ACT 32 https://registrar.princeton.edu/university_enrollment_sta/CDS2015-16.pdf
> 
> If the coaches want you for soccer  - at both schools both SAT and Grades are good enough for both.
> I think the one where the player is in the 25% makes them look better.
> 
> Same kind of pairing can be done on a Cal-State vs a UC.  The 75% at a Cal-State is pretty close to a 25% at a UC.  If the kid has a choice the one where they are in the 25% looks better.


Way too complicated for me.

Older son (2008 HS grad) had so-so grades, perhaps the best striker on his club team, but only a bench player and backup keeper on his HS team.  He got community-college recruiting interest, but he chose to play on his U19 club team rather than CC.  His club coach had played keeper for 5 years (including injury redshirt year) at a CSU DII school, so that worked into a successful on-campus tryout and coach's assistance with priority admission.  Due to factors out of our control, he never enrolled there, and continued to play club until he aged out.

Second son (2010) had 3.2 GPA and pretty good test scores, and was selected for Cal South and Region IV ODP teams.  After the ODP games in Florida, he had his pick of offers, and none of the coaches saw any problems with his grades or test scores.

Easy-peasy.  No 25% or 75% needed.


----------



## Zoro

espola said:


> Way too complicated for me.
> ...


I expect for many.  But some may get it.  I went over this with a dad of a mostly benched player on DD's U15 team (who got it).  She's at Princeton.  They also have a pretty good soccer school.  I suspected, and now am convinced that dropping the name of a bunch of schools will get you the interview.  In some cases - it will get you the job.  that can of course be many places from SLO to many places where the alumni take care of their own.  Not all schools do.  It may not matter, but I saw it as another arrow in the quiver.


----------



## espola

Zoro said:


> I expect for many.  But some may get it.  I went over this with a dad of a mostly benched player on DD's U15 team (who got it).  She's at Princeton.  They also have a pretty good soccer school.  I suspected, and now am convinced that dropping the name of a bunch of schools will get you the interview.  In some cases - it will get you the job.  that can of course be many places from SLO to many places where the alumni take care of their own.  Not all schools do.  It may not matter, but I saw it as another arrow in the quiver.


Or you can have some confidence that your kids will make it on their own.


----------



## Zoro

espola said:


> Or you can have some confidence that your kids will make it on their own.


If you see the thread title it is recruiting tips for parents.  I take from that it is for those not wanting their kids to do it on their own.

If you want to start a parenting thread/confidence thread some may want to participate.


----------



## espola

Zoro said:


> If you see the thread title it is recruiting tips for parents.  I take from that it is for those not wanting their kids to do it on their own.
> 
> If you want to start a parenting thread, confidence thread some may want to participate.


I don't really care since my kids are all done with college, but I don't see how your blizzard of incomprehensible numbers is any help to anyone.


----------



## Zerodenero

espola said:


> I don't really care since my kids are all done with college, but I don't see how your blizzard of incomprehensible numbers is any help to anyone.


Oh snap...not another onboard terrorist about to hijack the thread topic

Pola - There is nothin wrong with juco academia/athletics....it is a feasible and viable option for many. But just cause u don't get it or agree, no need to poo poo the info.

Z's tidbit of bravado is of help/value to those who are open to it......Clearly for u it was not.


----------



## espola

Zerodenero said:


> Oh snap...not another onboard terrorist about to hijack the thread topic
> 
> Pola - There is nothin wrong with juco academia/athletics....it is a feasible and viable option for many. But just cause u don't get it or agree, no need to poo poo the info.
> 
> Z's tidbit of bravado is of help/value to those who are open to it......Clearly for u it was not.


I have no idea what that means.


----------



## Zerodenero

espola said:


> I have no idea what that means.


Figures....move on pops.


----------



## MessiFTW

Maybe Espola is a MAP alias..........


----------



## espola

MessiFTW said:


> Maybe Espola is a MAP alias..........


What's a MAP?


----------



## MakeAPlay

MessiFTW said:


> Maybe Espola is a MAP alias..........


Not everyone has the time like you to have 4 screen names.  Those of us not in Arizona have live to attend to sweet chuck.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MessiFTW said:


> I bet your daughter would be ashamed about what you write about.  You are a very bitter and insecure person.  I feel sad for you.


Insecure and bitter?  Who keeps liking their own posts and spending the time to log in under multiple screen names and boo my posts?  You must have some very serious problems at home.  I recommend Cialis.


----------



## Lorrenna Bobbitt

MakeAPlay said:


> Insecure and bitter?  Who keeps liking their own posts and spending the time to log in under multiple screen names and boo my posts?  You must have some very serious problems at home.  I recommend Cialis.


Messi - I think your are right.  She is insecure AND paranoid.  I recommend Haldol.


----------



## Zerodenero

Zoro said:


> I didn't think it mattered how smart my DD was (in a certain range) - that was/is my point.   Find a school where kid is at least 25th percentile - that is a whole bunch of schools for most SoCal soccer families.........Could she have been accepted without soccer - stats say less than 50%.......


So....lets bring this ship-show back around to try and be of help to parents of youngers.

Z- A good point you sort of touch on is the high value out of state/region college coaches view SoCal players.

There are hundreds of colleges with women soccer programs across the county. Because most of our kids are playing at/in a concentrated area high level of play - during our recruiting process, many coaches shared sw kids inherently have a high stock value.

Of course, individual soccer accolades of a player place a "premium soccer-stock" value, let's call those players "first round soccer" draft picks.......best of the best, (YNT Pool players, invites, ID2 Ecnl players etc)...... But for the 2nd rounders of  soccer (_that make up 90% ~ of the college recruiting pool)_,  there are so many great schools available that it's really shortsight if kids/parents do not look outside of the area......don't short your kid w/a glass ceiling.


----------



## Zoro

A soccer Resume is very useful in sending to a coach and why some recruiting sites (like we used at CaptainU) create that format, but took that format and made it a nice e-mail readable look with links to videos.
We did a sports resume for son too and used it to send to schools.  
It gives them focus on what their goal is, as they write something in the summary section.  It also lets them see how their experiences help/don't help toward that goal.  

This resume building skills transfer nicely to the job/school one they might use as soon as the first year's summer break.


----------



## Zerodenero

Food for thought....

USA Today: http://usat.ly/2aFAzBJ


----------



## mirage

Zerodenero said:


> Food for thought....
> 
> USA Today: http://usat.ly/2aFAzBJ


Its the kind of stories that really over generalize and view from perspective that only financial planner would have.

Given a finite funds, and if parents choses to spend it on A versus B, then naturally, B gets less resources.  To make a direct link between saving for retirement vs spending on your kid is one of those kind of comparisons.  

Its a different situation for each family.  The right answer for one may or may not be the right answer for another.  But to isolate sports in this context, it seems to me that, is a stretch.

Its a fact that most Americans don't save enough - mostly due to overextending on a regular basis.  Perhaps its for kids sports but its more likely for all the other things.....

Heck, for those who are interested in this thread, the biggest expenses are still ahead of them (including myself) - college tuitions and expenses for our kids....

As a side note, the cost of education for the middle class is really bad.  If  you are on the lower end, there are more funds available for aide and with good grades there are help, and if you're on the top tier, you simply absorb it so its a bigger issue for the middle class working families.


----------



## Zoro

I think the beer and wine budget is making retirement difficult.


----------



## Azzurri

Looking for some perspective:

My son attended a camp, from that camp a coach requested he attend that colleges camp this coming Sunday as he is interested in seeing more of my son and wants him to see the school campus.

He has a tournament this weekend for his club. It's a small local tourney with zero to no college coaches attending, it's essentially a revenue generator for the club, ages Ulittle to U19.

When I was upfront with his coach on wanting to attend the camp  his coach would not support him missing the club tourney. 

I feel his coach should be supportive of the college invite vs. fundraiser tourney for club.

Thoughts?


----------



## espola

Azzurri said:


> Looking for some perspective:
> 
> My son attended a camp, from that camp a coach requested he attend that colleges camp this coming Sunday as he is interested in seeing more of my son and wants him to see the school campus.
> 
> He has a tournament this weekend for his club. It's a small local tourney with zero to no college coaches attending, it's essentially a revenue generator for the club, ages Ulittle to U19.
> 
> When I was upfront with his coach on wanting to attend the camp  his coach would not support him missing the club tourney.
> 
> I feel his coach should be supportive of the college invite vs. fundraiser tourney for club.
> 
> Thoughts?


There is a good chance that the college camp is a revenue generator for the college program.


----------



## CaliKlines

Azzurri said:


> Looking for some perspective:
> 
> My son attended a camp, from that camp a coach requested he attend that colleges camp this coming Sunday as he is interested in seeing more of my son and wants him to see the school campus.
> 
> He has a tournament this weekend for his club. It's a small local tourney with zero to no college coaches attending, it's essentially a revenue generator for the club, ages Ulittle to U19.
> 
> When I was upfront with his coach on wanting to attend the camp  his coach would not support him missing the club tourney.
> 
> I feel his coach should be supportive of the college invite vs. fundraiser tourney for club.
> 
> Thoughts?


Have your player call the college coach, explain the dilemma, and ask him about the level of their interest. If your player is interested in the school, express the interest to the coach and see if it is reciprocated.


----------



## mirage

Azz, I would send him to the ID camp. The college season starts soon and probably is the last chance for any camp for a while. 

Frankly any coach that doesn't support his players trying to get into a college team has his priority messed up. 

The college camp may turn out to be a fundraiser mostly but you'll have to take that chance, especially if it's a school of interest. At least you'll get to evaluate their interest is real or not. 

Unfortunately the club coach maybe pissed for a bit but such is life and what would he do if this was his kid....

Cheers!


----------



## Zoro

In 2010 (I think) we checked DD into a week long camp at Stanford (no qualification required - just money, and it was reasonable) while we went on and gave our son some attention.   They had lots - some 14ish I recall school coaches there.   That set a bunch of things in play.

She went to a camp at UVA and I think despite us traveling across country the decision was made before she arrived.  Hard to tell.  I saw a few girls that were top drawer.

Later she went to a camp WherePlayersPlay at TCU where she got seen and invited to play for one of the coaches the next day.


----------



## bilbo28

Zoro said:


> If you have a kid willing to serve, and an athlete - esp a female, check out the service academy.
> It is not about that some kids at Harvard or Princeton is a 170IQ (if you have one of those ignore my comments).
> 
> The difference between going in and coming out is the most stark at the service academies.
> 
> It is about what the service academies do with your basic smart kid I'm so impressed by.  All (so even the football players) freshman take calculus, engineering, language (mine doing Russian), leadership courses and history of war (you could just call it history).  And while not kicking butt vs DI recruited athletes at other colleges, it is a bit less important (other than beat Army).  They are athletes.  Looking at some, I question that, but the mean scores for men for the school is 12 pull-ups, 71 situps, 48 pushups, 1:53 600yd run and about a 6 min mile - going in.  Girls are also competitive.  And they pay your kid to attend.  Of course kid needs to want to serve and know that they may end up giving their life for their country.   But...they tend to die less than kids hanging around home (that is now).  No motorcycles allowed.
> 
> They also have the highest mid-career salaries.


     As service Academy grad and career military officer, here is what I would say.  The Academies (all of them, including Coast Guard), are great institutions (obviously I'm biased).  Your child will get a good education and a lot of great experience, discipline, leadership skills, etc.   But you need to make sure your child knows that they are going to be cadets/midshipmen first, students second, athletes third.  And they need to really want to serve in the military to make it through.  As a child all I wanted to do was to be in the military, and I went and wanted to drop out several times.  It is tough.  If you can't hack the military part of it, they will kick you out.  If you can't maintain above a 2.0, they will kick you out.  No matter how great an athlete you are.   I  had friends who were great athletes, recruited football players and track stars, who either quit or were kicked out.  There is a whole lot of BS that you have to put up with there, like memorizing the menus for meals, upperclassmen screaming at you for ridiculous things, surprise inspections, restricted liberty, etc.
     I hear a lot of parents say, well, (he or she) really wants to play Division 1 soccer, and (he or she) won't mind the military stuff.  That's not really how it works there.  Some go in with that attitude, but then find that the military is really for them.  They are a small minority.


----------



## Zoro

@bilbo28 - Thank you for your continuing service. 
I'm learning about what you posted still. 

For girls (99.9% of them) - soccer's "usefulness" is in getting into college and helping pay for it.  Some guys may have lucrative pro options.  Very few girls will be pro and those who are, will make near min wage on average.  1-2 a year will be on the WNT.  Yet those that want to play for the joy of the sport have plenty opportunity.  So if a parent/kid agrees that playing at the most competitive level of soccer is going to go away in 1-4 years anyway, they may be willing to put it 3rd place for something bigger.  Nobody wants anyone in the Service Academies that are not willing to serve their country in the military first, but I think a lot of soccer players meet the profile the Academies are looking for - esp the girls.

This was mine - Yesterday A-Day.  A proud moment, not because of his sport.  But his sport helped get him there.


----------



## uburoi

I have a 13-year-old girl who is now showing the skill and desire to take it to the next level and is entering 8th grade. Recently had a big growth spurt and she is a different player than a year ago. I don't think any of us know at this stage where she'll be this time next year. There could be 100 girls at her age group just at her club when she's ready to graduate. How do I know if she has what it takes to be a college player? How will she know?


----------



## Zoro

uburoi said:


> I have a 13-year-old girl who is now showing the skill and desire to take it to the next level and is entering 8th grade. Recently had a big growth spurt and she is a different player than a year ago. I don't think any of us know at this stage where she'll be this time next year. There could be 100 girls at her age group just at her club when she's ready to graduate. How do I know if she has what it takes to be a college player? How will she know?


Summer is almost over.  But look into / search for some multi coach camps.  The Stanford one was very good.  Note that before she takes her 1st 9th grade class she can talk to coaches and visit schools.  I think that gets their head in the right place early.  Have her try out for the highest level she can do and know on the bench is on the team.  Just make sure she thinks she can stay there.  Name brand clubs help.  
Sure there are many example of great girls that came from nowhere, but most college coaches are lazy and if you have the names to give them - that helps.  Note to those that disagree - I said it helps.

Looks like it is over but here is the link and the colleges that were involved.  While she may have no interest in tese schools these coaches can help.  Also these coaches move.  When DD was there the Stanford assistant saw her.  Then that assistant became the head coach at Dartmouth, and now is the head coach at Notre Dame.  DD was on a team with the UNLV assistant coach who became the Oregan (state or U - I forgot) coach.
http://www.stanfordsoccer.com/Girls_College_ID___Development_Camp.htm
*Cal State Bakersfield * Idaho State University * University of Oklahoma * San Francisco State University * Seattle University * Notre Dame de Namur * University of Hawaii * University of Utah * University of Washington * Marquette University * University of Evansville * Northern Arizona University * Saint Louis University * Chico State University * Dominican University * Humboldt State University *


----------



## Azzurri

espola said:


> There is a good chance that the college camp is a revenue generator for the college program.



I would agree it is.


----------



## Azzurri

CaliKlines said:


> Have your player call the college coach, explain the dilemma, and ask him about the level of their interest. If your player is interested in the school, express the interest to the coach and see if it is reciprocated.


He did.  My sons club coach called the college coach and explained the situation.


----------



## Azzurri

mirage said:


> Azz, I would send him to the ID camp. The college season starts soon and probably is the last chance for any camp for a while.
> 
> Frankly any coach that doesn't support his players trying to get into a college team has his priority messed up.
> 
> The college camp may turn out to be a fundraiser mostly but you'll have to take that chance, especially if it's a school of interest. At least you'll get to evaluate their interest is real or not.
> 
> Unfortunately the club coach maybe pissed for a bit but such is life and what would he do if this was his kid....
> 
> Cheers!



I felt the same way you did.


----------



## MakeAPlay

While your player is narrowing down schools be sure to pay attention to the players that graduate at his/her position.  If playing matters to them find out if they are a need position.


----------



## MessiFTW

MakeAPlay said:


> While your player is narrowing down schools be sure to pay attention to the players that graduate at his/her position.  If playing matters to them find out if they are a need position.


It is nice to see that you are taking your medication again.  Well done!


----------



## Zoro

MakeAPlay said:


> While your player is narrowing down schools be sure to pay attention to the players that graduate at his/her position.  If playing matters to them find out if they are a need position.


Easier for GK than other positions.  And you can kinda guess it just looking at the roster and class they other GK/s were. 
For field players - not so easy unless you know the coach think.  We saw players moved from forward to defender and visa versa in more than one team (Notre Dame and Stanford switched key players).   Rare to see one moved from/to GK.  UW moved Hope Solo from HS forward to GK in college - FWIW.
Now that DD plays for fun she no longer plays GK and few know she was one.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MessiFTW said:


> It is nice to see that you are taking your medication again.  Well done!


Oh it's you again.  Is your daughter even still playing soccer?  She should start getting good grades now because if you are any indication she not only won't play soccer in college she just might end up with a lobotomy like her father.  Give it up you are not in my league.  Get your kid into an engineering camp or something.  Soccer is a waste of time for you and her.

I would also pay attention to your wife more.  With such an obviously small penis you better be spending some $$$ on her.


----------



## MessiFTW

Zoro said:


> For field players - not so easy unless you know the coach think.


When MAP is not taking her medication she is able to divine this information.  This along with banging the coach definitely help.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MessiFTW said:


> When MAP is not taking her medication she is able to divine this information.  This along with banging the coach definitely help.


Maybe you should try banging the coach it might get your player more minutes.  You seem like a bottom so your coach will like that.  It still won't help your player get a scholarship but there are plenty of JUCOS in Arizona looking for ECNL players.


----------



## MessiFTW

I have heard you have a reputation for banging coaches.  One of the big reasons your DD has gone to some YNT camps.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Zoro said:


> Easier for GK than other positions.  And you can kinda guess it just looking at the roster and class they other GK/s were.
> For field players - not so easy unless you know the coach think.  We saw players moved from forward to defender and visa versa in more than one team (Notre Dame and Stanford switched key players).   Rare to see one moved from/to GK.  UW moved Hope Solo from HS forward to GK in college - FWIW.
> Now that DD plays for fun she no longer plays GK and few know she was one.



I hear you sir.  Recruiting is not an exact science.  It does matter though.  We were told by every school that she considered that there was a need at her particular position in her grad year and it seems to have worked out.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MessiFTW said:


> I have heard you have a reputation for banging coaches.  One of the big reasons your DD has gone to some YNT camps.


You caught me except that the coaches are female and I don't swing that way.  I would say that it would work for you but to be perfectly honest your kid isn't good enough.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MessiFTW,

Let me guess your next retort.  "I'm rubber and you're glue it bounces off me and sticks to you!"


----------



## MessiFTW

Have you banged the college coach yet for playing time?


----------



## Zerodenero

Wait a minute....I thought that was just an OC thang?


----------



## MakeAPlay

MessiFTW said:


> Have you banged the college coach yet for playing time?


If I did it's still a position you and yours will NEVER be in!


----------



## Zoro

I was wondering who was going to replace JAP and E on this "new" forum.


----------



## MessiFTW

MakeAPlay said:


> If I did it's still a position you and yours will NEVER be in!


If you are talking about "doggie-style" then I agree with you.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MessiFTW said:


> If you are talking about "doggie-style" then I agree with you.


Still thanking your own posts I see.  You are pretty pathetic.


----------



## MakeAPlay

push_up said:


> The Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC), Big Ten Conference (B1G), Big 12 Conference, Pac-12 Conference, and Southeastern Conference (SEC).


And your daughter will not end up at any of them sweetchuck.


----------



## MakeAPlay

push_up said:


> It is true on both.  If your kid can't get an A doing honors let alone AP don't do it.  It is not worth it.


That is sure some loser talk there sweetsplat!


----------



## Zoro

Just saying...


----------



## Spottswoode

How are the teams doing with college commits?  How are the ECNL teams doing?  the EGSL teams, the tier one teams and the CSL premier teams?  I would think that ALL the ECNL teams would have rosters with all girls committed.  So if your kid didn't play ECNL, what would have been the better option?


----------



## Zerodenero

Spottswoode said:


> How are the teams doing with college commits?  How are the ECNL teams doing?  the EGSL teams, the tier one teams and the CSL premier teams?  I would think that ALL the ECNL teams would have rosters with all girls committed.  So if your kid didn't play ECNL, what would have been the better option?


A lot going on there Scottie.....u asking or stating?


----------



## Spottswoode

Zerodenero said:


> A lot going on there Scottie.....u asking or stating?


How many commits out of how many players at the u18/19 (g98):
ECNL
EGSL
Tier One
Premier

I know that I can look at SC Blues website and I find:

EGSL/Composite--6/14
ECNL--20/22 (the 2 girls are 2018 grads)

(that is a statement)

I looked at the website, https://sites.google.com/site/soccerrecruits/
but it just lists some of the kids, not all, I thought posters might have a clue.

(I am asking)


----------



## Overlap

MakeAPlay said:


> Tip #2
> 
> Start the process early.  I recommend that you start the process the fall of her freshman year of high school.  i know that sounds really early especially since they are just starting high school and making decisions that are 5 years away seems too early but it isn't.  Start getting an idea of what type of school she wants to go to.  Does she want to go to a big school or a small one?  Urban, rural or college town setting.  Power 5 conference, mid major or D2/3.  This is where she should start getting a general idea of 20-30 schools that you can start to whittle down.  Also make sure that she remains flexible.  I know plenty of girls that committed to schools that weren't initially on their list but fit their criteria and wanted them for the soccer team.


10th grade is fine to start, I signed my oldest up as an 8th grader to figure out the process. She's had coaches watching her since we started, 4 really good offers as she starts her Senior year. 2 had been watching her since she was a 9th grader, 2 saw her at last year's Las Vegas Player's Showcase and she just committed to one of the schools that saw her in LV last year. It's also a school that I thought would be her last pick! (shows you what I know) just go along for the ride, guide them when they need it, show them the upsides to all and let them make the choice, remember, it's about them, not you....(btw, the school is D3 and they cut the tuition in half if she committed early so, don't think there isn't $$ available if they want your DD)...East Coast Schools LOVE West Coast Player's!


----------



## espola

Overlap said:


> 10th grade is fine to start, I signed my oldest up as an 8th grader to figure out the process. She's had coaches watching her since we started, 4 really good offers as she starts her Senior year. 2 had been watching her since she was a 9th grader, 2 saw her at last year's Las Vegas Player's Showcase and she just committed to one of the schools that saw her in LV last year. It's also a school that I thought would be her last pick! (shows you what I know) just go along for the ride, guide them when they need it, show them the upsides to all and let them make the choice, remember, it's about them, not you....(btw, the school is D3 and they cut the tuition in half if she committed early so, don't think there isn't $$ available if they want your DD)...East Coast Schools LOVE West Coast Player's!


This looks like an interesting question - how does a DIII school make a half-tuition offer to a desired athlete?


----------



## Overlap

espola said:


> This looks like an interesting question - how does a DIII school make a half-tuition offer to a desired athlete?


OUT OF STATE PLAYER'S...just keep an open mind on school's, we were lucky in that all of them were very good school's, just far from home.


----------



## Bdobyns

espola said:


> This looks like an interesting question - how does a DIII school make a half-tuition offer to a desired athlete?


I was under the impression that DIII's really can't talk money until the kid applies to the school because there is NO athletic money.


----------



## espola

Overlap said:


> OUT OF STATE PLAYER'S...just keep an open mind on school's, we were lucky in that all of them were very good school's, just far from home.


DIII schools are generally prohibited from giving any benefit to athletes that they do not offer to all applicants.


----------



## Overlap

Bdobyns said:


> I was under the impression that DIII's really can't talk money until the kid applies to the school because there is NO athletic money.


that's what I thought too, I'll be honest, my heart was the local offer and when they made a push to get an early commit, I didn't say a word and we let her decide. It took her all of 30 seconds after coming home from the visit. They may not call it "athletic" and when they told us, I was shocked and couldn't argue her decision, maybe that's why they did it!


----------



## Overlap

espola said:


> DIII schools are generally prohibited from giving any benefit to athletes that they do not offer to all applicants.


maybe they list it as Merit


----------



## Zerodenero

Overlap said:


> maybe they list it as Merit


Probably under the label  "financial aid/needs based"...."grants" etc.


----------



## Zerodenero

Overlap said:


> It's also a school that I thought would be her last pick!


Over - Your post reminded me that sometimes the school your kid commits to isnt one of the schools you/your kid initially suspects.....sometimes they know (we were candid) you're  "shopping" their competition (other schools in the same conference), they step up & make a strong push for your kid....... Also, I've seen a schools 1st choice on their recruit list commits elsewhere, opening a door that may not have initially been.


----------



## Bdobyns

I was told official money talk comes after they apply as well.


----------



## Zoro

espola said:


> ...generally prohibited ...


What are the exceptions?

I think it is important to be precise on this forum thread.  There is a difference between merit, need and soccer money (also merit).  And each varies based on where.


----------



## espola

Zoro said:


> What are the exceptions?
> 
> I think it is important to be precise on this forum thread.  There is a difference between merit, need and soccer money (also merit).  And each varies based on where.


I was responding to a claim that a DIII school cut tuition in half because an applicant was "wanted", presumably because of soccer skills.  I'd like to know more about that, but I haven't heard the complete story yet.


----------



## Zoro

espola said:


> I was responding to a claim that a DIII school cut tuition in half because an applicant was "wanted", presumably because of soccer skills.  I'd like to know more about that, but I haven't heard the complete story yet.


NCAA DIIIs cannot give sports money.  I think there is no exception.  NAIA have some options.
So a kid getting picked up by a DIII may have other options.  I get that they may cost less and soccer may help them get in.  The same as those trying to get into DII, DI.  Except no soccer money allowed.

The best for any kid it to have both great grades and great soccer skills.  that still gives options, but the reality is - I believe - many will still have to choose the priority.


----------



## Overlap

Bottom line is, use every avenue at your disposal, NCSA (big National reach), College Fit Finder whatever and HIRE someone that knows how the system works when your DD is entering as a Junior. Hiring someone that has a great "in" with multiple colleges is huge, it also helped me keep my relationship with my DD. As a 9th grader, we were starting to argue and fight about college follow up etc, it wasn't good and not what I wanted as a parent. The recruiter / mentor was perfect, I knew from our first meeting it would be a fit, they played D1, had plenty of connections in all college levels. They were the one's making sure emails were sent, phone calls were made and grades were maintained. (It was also great when I saw something in her game, I ran it through the recruiter and they dealt with it!) Let this person deal with the money aspect as well, you can always ask for more, you may not get it but, you have to ask, I preferred to let them do that part and the parents stayed out only until we spoke to the coach to confirm everything. We now have her little sister coming up behind her (2 years) and feel we have a much better handle on things, we'll probably use all avenues again for her. Don't listen to the negative stuff, if this is your DD's dream, help her get there anyway you can. It's a crazy ride but, well worth it, these are life long memories and getting the opportunity to keep the dream alive through College is pretty awesome in my book.


----------



## Overlap

Zerodenero said:


> Over - Your post reminded me that sometimes the school your kid commits to isnt one of the schools you/your kid initially suspects.....sometimes they know (we were candid) you're  "shopping" their competition (other schools in the same conference), they step up & make a strong push for your kid....... Also, I've seen a schools 1st choice on their recruit list commits elsewhere, opening a door that may not have initially been.


so true, I'm still in shock, I know 2 of the 4 found out about each other and I'm thinking that's why the one she committed to was willing to make it easy for her to decide. 1 of the 2 came into the picture as a 9th grader and she didn't hear from them until a few weeks ago. I guess my point is, don't count any of them out and just keeping persevering. I have to laugh about some of the other posts about grades etc, my DD's school is a "test optional" so all of her ACT scores she's been killing herself over, aren't even necessary!


----------



## Bdobyns

Test scores are needed for D1 and D2 NCAA requirements--very low scores, but required.


----------



## Overlap

Bdobyns said:


> Test scores are needed for D1 and D2 NCAA requirements--very low scores, but required.


correct, I told her to take it one last time as a back up but, I can see how relieved she is to be done with the process.


----------



## soccerobserver

Overlapster, very happy for your DD and family...is it possible your advisor or the coach used the Net Price Calculator to estimate what the tuition will be in your case? I have only heard of D3 schools disclosing the net price when they send out the admissions letter some time in December of senior year...also high grades are no laughing matter... honestly...higher grades + higher test scores = many many many many more options especially when combined with outstanding soccer skills...


----------



## Zoro

New/maybe old tip.  This is obvious to the sales types, but some were surprised when I mentioned it, so mentioning maybe again.

Study coaches competition.  Know names, locations where they played, who won etc.  It is all there on the schedule / roster.  Might be good to see a game streamed or live.  Recruiting time and game season are often different, but it is good to read some writeups on games too.

Then in the interview, discussion it is fine to drop things that let them know, think you are being sought out by others.  They may want you, they may want to take you off the street.  You still get what you want.

I remember DD asking how many fields they played at trees hanging over them, or hotel rooms looking onto them.  Or its nice I don't have to get in a bus to get to the field.
Her coach knew the places she was talking about.  He later said he was happy she had seen so many places as he knew she was ready to make a decision.  She was not asked directly who she was talking to and in some cases she had opportunities and in some she did not.  But it was a clean way to get the point across.


----------



## Overlap

soccerobserver said:


> Overlapster, very happy for your DD and family...is it possible your advisor or the coach used the Net Price Calculator to estimate what the tuition will be in your case? I have only heard of D3 schools disclosing the net price when they send out the admissions letter some time in December of senior year...also high grades are no laughing matter... honestly...higher grades + higher test scores = many many many many more options especially when combined with outstanding soccer skills...


soccerobserver - Thanks, I'll tell you all about it at the first game ...yes, they used the net price calculator and then tossed it after the visit. the numbers were based of the NP calculator, GPA and ?? I totally agree, grades are HUGE and kids shouldn't take that lightly.


----------



## Juve 50

My DD just committed yesterday.  We were kind of lucky being on a top ECNL team so we didn't have to hire anyone or use a recruiting company/advisers.  She was on a big stage and routinely had numerous college coaches watching at Showcases and Tournaments.  Every coach she emailed came out to watch her.  Being 15, the decision has been a tough one with some incredible offers.  Lots of tears were shed and lots of prayers were said.  Most people are dumbfounded when they hear the school she actually chose knowing the schools that were offering (especially one).  The night she decided she got a text with a 90/90/100/100 4 year offer to another school on her list which was much more than she was offered at any school.  But in the end, she went with a school that will be close to her family, a school that has a great honors school on campus, where there are numerous students who share the same religious beliefs, a big 5 conference school with a very good sports program, and a coaching staff that coaches a style of play that works for her.  She also knows players on the team that are currently freshmen and she got to spend some time with them.  The coaching staff made us feel like family and the coach is a stand up guy with a great reputation.  Other College coaches endorsed the coach.  We are still talking money, but because we are moving to the state where she will be playing (not following her, made the decision to leave Cali long ago) there is the issue of out of state vs in state tuition and how much money she will need.  But the coach has assured us he is putting away a certain amount for her.  We are also applying for grants, needs based money, and there is money based on her GPA and Test Scores that will increase as she improves.  She is a Junior this year and still hasn't taken the SAT or ACT.  But in the end, I believe ECNL worked for her.  It put her in front of the right people and her coach(es) have the right connections.  The funny thing is, this is the first school she emailed her freshman year and she is more than excited.  Going though the whole process has also helped her focus because she has seen a glimpse of what "Could Be" if she gets good grades and works hard.  The trips kicked her ass into gear because it got her excited and gave her a goal.  And some of the posters are right.  These east coast or mid west teams love our So Cal girls.  My dd did some visits to some great schools in the mid west. Loved em.  But in the end I believe she chose the best one for her.  I did my best to stay out of her way in the decision making.  I somehow knew she would eventually make the right decision.  For a while though, I didn't know what the right decision was.  But I did interact with every coach and school we visited.  I have been coaching Football for years.  But those D1 scholarships are full rides.  So this was much different.  There aren't many full rides out there.  And most of the time, it will come from a school that your dd has no interest in.  We were gracious and thanked all the coaches that hosted us making sure not to burn any bridges (especially knowing the transfer rates for womens college soccer).  She called and personally spoke to the coaches and informed them of her decision.  They all made it easy for her (the good ones also know of the transfer rate and don't like to burn bridges).  Some even asked if they could keep in touch just in case there were any changes.  

 Ask questions to some of the people who have been through this.  I know NoGoal was a great source of information for me.  And he was more that willing to answer my questions or talk soccer.  These forums have been an added bonus for me through this Journey.  I have made many life long friends through these forums.  I started a Fictitious Club through these Forums.  And ultimately, I believe my DD ended up on the team she is on now, and is now going to her "dream school" as she puts it, because of the connections I made here.  I still have 2 more girls and 2 more boys (my boys don't play soccer) to go though this with so I will be in this for a while but it's nice to see some of the fruits of my daughter's labor starting to manifest themselves.  Thank you to all the posters who have shared their experience and made me feel confident that my daughters time would also come when most people told me she would quit by the time she was 14.


----------



## Zerodenero

Congrats Juve..congrats!!


----------



## MakeAPlay

Juve 50 said:


> My DD just committed yesterday.  We were kind of lucky being on a top ECNL team so we didn't have to hire anyone or use a recruiting company/advisers.  She was on a big stage and routinely had numerous college coaches watching at Showcases and Tournaments.  Every coach she emailed came out to watch her.  Being 15, the decision has been a tough one with some incredible offers.  Lots of tears were shed and lots of prayers were said.  Most people are dumbfounded when they hear the school she actually chose knowing the schools that were offering (especially one).  The night she decided she got a text with a 90/90/100/100 4 year offer to another school on her list which was much more than she was offered at any school.  But in the end, she went with a school that will be close to her family, a school that has a great honors school on campus, where there are numerous students who share the same religious beliefs, a big 5 conference school with a very good sports program, and a coaching staff that coaches a style of play that works for her.  She also knows players on the team that are currently freshmen and she got to spend some time with them.  The coaching staff made us feel like family and the coach is a stand up guy with a great reputation.  Other College coaches endorsed the coach.  We are still talking money, but because we are moving to the state where she will be playing (not following her, made the decision to leave Cali long ago) there is the issue of out of state vs in state tuition and how much money she will need.  But the coach has assured us he is putting away a certain amount for her.  We are also applying for grants, needs based money, and there is money based on her GPA and Test Scores that will increase as she improves.  She is a Junior this year and still hasn't taken the SAT or ACT.  But in the end, I believe ECNL worked for her.  It put her in front of the right people and her coach(es) have the right connections.  The funny thing is, this is the first school she emailed her freshman year and she is more than excited.  Going though the whole process has also helped her focus because she has seen a glimpse of what "Could Be" if she gets good grades and works hard.  The trips kicked her ass into gear because it got her excited and gave her a goal.  And some of the posters are right.  These east coast or mid west teams love our So Cal girls.  My dd did some visits to some great schools in the mid west. Loved em.  But in the end I believe she chose the best one for her.  I did my best to stay out of her way in the decision making.  I somehow knew she would eventually make the right decision.  For a while though, I didn't know what the right decision was.  But I did interact with every coach and school we visited.  I have been coaching Football for years.  But those D1 scholarships are full rides.  So this was much different.  There aren't many full rides out there.  And most of the time, it will come from a school that your dd has no interest in.  We were gracious and thanked all the coaches that hosted us making sure not to burn any bridges (especially knowing the transfer rates for womens college soccer).  She called and personally spoke to the coaches and informed them of her decision.  They all made it easy for her (the good ones also know of the transfer rate and don't like to burn bridges).  Some even asked if they could keep in touch just in case there were any changes.
> 
> Ask questions to some of the people who have been through this.  I know NoGoal was a great source of information for me.  And he was more that willing to answer my questions or talk soccer.  These forums have been an added bonus for me through this Journey.  I have made many life long friends through these forums.  I started a Fictitious Club through these Forums.  And ultimately, I believe my DD ended up on the team she is on now, and is now going to her "dream school" as she puts it, because of the connections I made here.  I still have 2 more girls and 2 more boys (my boys don't play soccer) to go though this with so I will be in this for a while but it's nice to see some of the fruits of my daughter's labor starting to manifest themselves.  Thank you to all the posters who have shared their experience and made me feel confident that my daughters time would also come when most people told me she would quit by the time she was 14.


Congratulations!  You should be proud of your daughter for all of her hard work.  I wouldn't worry too much about out of state fees because they can request waiver in most states (not California public schools sorry).  There is plenty of academic money and other grants out there also as long as she has really strong grades.  Committing is the start of the second phase of her career.  It is a fork in the road.  I trust that you will continue to direct her down the correct path.   The coach is banking on not where she is at 16 but at where he thinks that she will be at 18-21.  Make sure that she starts working harder than every before if she plans on competing as a freshman.  The PAC 12 is an amazing conference and by far has the most national championships in all sports of any conference so she will do amazing and will see lots of girls that she has competed with and against.

Congrats again you did good dad.


----------



## NoGoal

Juve 50 said:


> My DD just committed yesterday.  We were kind of lucky being on a top ECNL team so we didn't have to hire anyone or use a recruiting company/advisers.  She was on a big stage and routinely had numerous college coaches watching at Showcases and Tournaments.  Every coach she emailed came out to watch her.  Being 15, the decision has been a tough one with some incredible offers.  Lots of tears were shed and lots of prayers were said.  Most people are dumbfounded when they hear the school she actually chose knowing the schools that were offering (especially one).  The night she decided she got a text with a 90/90/100/100 4 year offer to another school on her list which was much more than she was offered at any school.  But in the end, she went with a school that will be close to her family, a school that has a great honors school on campus, where there are numerous students who share the same religious beliefs, a big 5 conference school with a very good sports program, and a coaching staff that coaches a style of play that works for her.  She also knows players on the team that are currently freshmen and she got to spend some time with them.  The coaching staff made us feel like family and the coach is a stand up guy with a great reputation.  Other College coaches endorsed the coach.  We are still talking money, but because we are moving to the state where she will be playing (not following her, made the decision to leave Cali long ago) there is the issue of out of state vs in state tuition and how much money she will need.  But the coach has assured us he is putting away a certain amount for her.  We are also applying for grants, needs based money, and there is money based on her GPA and Test Scores that will increase as she improves.  She is a Junior this year and still hasn't taken the SAT or ACT.  But in the end, I believe ECNL worked for her.  It put her in front of the right people and her coach(es) have the right connections.  The funny thing is, this is the first school she emailed her freshman year and she is more than excited.  Going though the whole process has also helped her focus because she has seen a glimpse of what "Could Be" if she gets good grades and works hard.  The trips kicked her ass into gear because it got her excited and gave her a goal.  And some of the posters are right.  These east coast or mid west teams love our So Cal girls.  My dd did some visits to some great schools in the mid west. Loved em.  But in the end I believe she chose the best one for her.  I did my best to stay out of her way in the decision making.  I somehow knew she would eventually make the right decision.  For a while though, I didn't know what the right decision was.  But I did interact with every coach and school we visited.  I have been coaching Football for years.  But those D1 scholarships are full rides.  So this was much different.  There aren't many full rides out there.  And most of the time, it will come from a school that your dd has no interest in.  We were gracious and thanked all the coaches that hosted us making sure not to burn any bridges (especially knowing the transfer rates for womens college soccer).  She called and personally spoke to the coaches and informed them of her decision.  They all made it easy for her (the good ones also know of the transfer rate and don't like to burn bridges).  Some even asked if they could keep in touch just in case there were any changes.
> 
> Ask questions to some of the people who have been through this.  I know NoGoal was a great source of information for me.  And he was more that willing to answer my questions or talk soccer.  These forums have been an added bonus for me through this Journey.  I have made many life long friends through these forums.  I started a Fictitious Club through these Forums.  And ultimately, I believe my DD ended up on the team she is on now, and is now going to her "dream school" as she puts it, because of the connections I made here.  I still have 2 more girls and 2 more boys (my boys don't play soccer) to go though this with so I will be in this for a while but it's nice to see some of the fruits of my daughter's labor starting to manifest themselves.  Thank you to all the posters who have shared their experience and made me feel confident that my daughters time would also come when most people told me she would quit by the time she was 14.


Juve, Congrats to your DD and family.  I'm sure your family made the right decision, since the family took the time doing the research and weighing the pros and cons!  It's always nice seeing another former ulittle B team player commit to a Power 5 conference . As I posted a few times through out the years.  Club soccer is not a sprint, but a marathon.

Looking forward to seeing your DD play in college, she will do great!


----------



## Overlap

Juve 50 said:


> My DD just committed yesterday.  We were kind of lucky being on a top ECNL team so we didn't have to hire anyone or use a recruiting company/advisers.  She was on a big stage and routinely had numerous college coaches watching at Showcases and Tournaments.  Every coach she emailed came out to watch her.  Being 15, the decision has been a tough one with some incredible offers.  Lots of tears were shed and lots of prayers were said.  Most people are dumbfounded when they hear the school she actually chose knowing the schools that were offering (especially one).  The night she decided she got a text with a 90/90/100/100 4 year offer to another school on her list which was much more than she was offered at any school.  But in the end, she went with a school that will be close to her family, a school that has a great honors school on campus, where there are numerous students who share the same religious beliefs, a big 5 conference school with a very good sports program, and a coaching staff that coaches a style of play that works for her.  She also knows players on the team that are currently freshmen and she got to spend some time with them.  The coaching staff made us feel like family and the coach is a stand up guy with a great reputation.  Other College coaches endorsed the coach.  We are still talking money, but because we are moving to the state where she will be playing (not following her, made the decision to leave Cali long ago) there is the issue of out of state vs in state tuition and how much money she will need.  But the coach has assured us he is putting away a certain amount for her.  We are also applying for grants, needs based money, and there is money based on her GPA and Test Scores that will increase as she improves.  She is a Junior this year and still hasn't taken the SAT or ACT.  But in the end, I believe ECNL worked for her.  It put her in front of the right people and her coach(es) have the right connections.  The funny thing is, this is the first school she emailed her freshman year and she is more than excited.  Going though the whole process has also helped her focus because she has seen a glimpse of what "Could Be" if she gets good grades and works hard.  The trips kicked her ass into gear because it got her excited and gave her a goal.  And some of the posters are right.  These east coast or mid west teams love our So Cal girls.  My dd did some visits to some great schools in the mid west. Loved em.  But in the end I believe she chose the best one for her.  I did my best to stay out of her way in the decision making.  I somehow knew she would eventually make the right decision.  For a while though, I didn't know what the right decision was.  But I did interact with every coach and school we visited.  I have been coaching Football for years.  But those D1 scholarships are full rides.  So this was much different.  There aren't many full rides out there.  And most of the time, it will come from a school that your dd has no interest in.  We were gracious and thanked all the coaches that hosted us making sure not to burn any bridges (especially knowing the transfer rates for womens college soccer).  She called and personally spoke to the coaches and informed them of her decision.  They all made it easy for her (the good ones also know of the transfer rate and don't like to burn bridges).  Some even asked if they could keep in touch just in case there were any changes.
> 
> Ask questions to some of the people who have been through this.  I know NoGoal was a great source of information for me.  And he was more that willing to answer my questions or talk soccer.  These forums have been an added bonus for me through this Journey.  I have made many life long friends through these forums.  I started a Fictitious Club through these Forums.  And ultimately, I believe my DD ended up on the team she is on now, and is now going to her "dream school" as she puts it, because of the connections I made here.  I still have 2 more girls and 2 more boys (my boys don't play soccer) to go though this with so I will be in this for a while but it's nice to see some of the fruits of my daughter's labor starting to manifest themselves.  Thank you to all the posters who have shared their experience and made me feel confident that my daughters time would also come when most people told me she would quit by the time she was 14.



Congrats to your DD and family!.....pretty awesome journey isn't it


----------



## Multi Sport

Juve 50 said:


> My DD just committed yesterday.  We were kind of lucky being on a top ECNL team so we didn't have to hire anyone or use a recruiting company/advisers.  She was on a big stage and routinely had numerous college coaches watching at Showcases and Tournaments.  Every coach she emailed came out to watch her.  Being 15, the decision has been a tough one with some incredible offers.  Lots of tears were shed and lots of prayers were said.  Most people are dumbfounded when they hear the school she actually chose knowing the schools that were offering (especially one).  The night she decided she got a text with a 90/90/100/100 4 year offer to another school on her list which was much more than she was offered at any school.  But in the end, she went with a school that will be close to her family, a school that has a great honors school on campus, where there are numerous students who share the same religious beliefs, a big 5 conference school with a very good sports program, and a coaching staff that coaches a style of play that works for her.  She also knows players on the team that are currently freshmen and she got to spend some time with them.  The coaching staff made us feel like family and the coach is a stand up guy with a great reputation.  Other College coaches endorsed the coach.  We are still talking money, but because we are moving to the state where she will be playing (not following her, made the decision to leave Cali long ago) there is the issue of out of state vs in state tuition and how much money she will need.  But the coach has assured us he is putting away a certain amount for her.  We are also applying for grants, needs based money, and there is money based on her GPA and Test Scores that will increase as she improves.  She is a Junior this year and still hasn't taken the SAT or ACT.  But in the end, I believe ECNL worked for her.  It put her in front of the right people and her coach(es) have the right connections.  The funny thing is, this is the first school she emailed her freshman year and she is more than excited.  Going though the whole process has also helped her focus because she has seen a glimpse of what "Could Be" if she gets good grades and works hard.  The trips kicked her ass into gear because it got her excited and gave her a goal.  And some of the posters are right.  These east coast or mid west teams love our So Cal girls.  My dd did some visits to some great schools in the mid west. Loved em.  But in the end I believe she chose the best one for her.  I did my best to stay out of her way in the decision making.  I somehow knew she would eventually make the right decision.  For a while though, I didn't know what the right decision was.  But I did interact with every coach and school we visited.  I have been coaching Football for years.  But those D1 scholarships are full rides.  So this was much different.  There aren't many full rides out there.  And most of the time, it will come from a school that your dd has no interest in.  We were gracious and thanked all the coaches that hosted us making sure not to burn any bridges (especially knowing the transfer rates for womens college soccer).  She called and personally spoke to the coaches and informed them of her decision.  They all made it easy for her (the good ones also know of the transfer rate and don't like to burn bridges).  Some even asked if they could keep in touch just in case there were any changes.
> 
> Ask questions to some of the people who have been through this.  I know NoGoal was a great source of information for me.  And he was more that willing to answer my questions or talk soccer.  These forums have been an added bonus for me through this Journey.  I have made many life long friends through these forums.  I started a Fictitious Club through these Forums.  And ultimately, I believe my DD ended up on the team she is on now, and is now going to her "dream school" as she puts it, because of the connections I made here.  I still have 2 more girls and 2 more boys (my boys don't play soccer) to go though this with so I will be in this for a while but it's nice to see some of the fruits of my daughter's labor starting to manifest themselves.  Thank you to all the posters who have shared their experience and made me feel confident that my daughters time would also come when most people told me she would quit by the time she was 14.


Congrats  Juve! And congratulations to your DD as well. We just got back from visiting our DD in Oregon. It was the first time that we actually had the opportunity to watch her play college in person...had to pinch myself. On those SAT/ACT test, my DD took them three times but each time she raised her scores and ultimately added 6k to her scholarship. Good luck moving forward..


----------



## Silent on the Pitch

Juve 50 said:


> My DD just committed yesterday.  We were kind of lucky being on a top ECNL team so we didn't have to hire anyone or use a recruiting company/advisers.  She was on a big stage and routinely had numerous college coaches watching at Showcases and Tournaments.  Every coach she emailed came out to watch her.  Being 15, the decision has been a tough one with some incredible offers.  Lots of tears were shed and lots of prayers were said.  Most people are dumbfounded when they hear the school she actually chose knowing the schools that were offering (especially one).  The night she decided she got a text with a 90/90/100/100 4 year offer to another school on her list which was much more than she was offered at any school.  But in the end, she went with a school that will be close to her family, a school that has a great honors school on campus, where there are numerous students who share the same religious beliefs, a big 5 conference school with a very good sports program, and a coaching staff that coaches a style of play that works for her.  She also knows players on the team that are currently freshmen and she got to spend some time with them.  The coaching staff made us feel like family and the coach is a stand up guy with a great reputation.  Other College coaches endorsed the coach.  We are still talking money, but because we are moving to the state where she will be playing (not following her, made the decision to leave Cali long ago) there is the issue of out of state vs in state tuition and how much money she will need.  But the coach has assured us he is putting away a certain amount for her.  We are also applying for grants, needs based money, and there is money based on her GPA and Test Scores that will increase as she improves.  She is a Junior this year and still hasn't taken the SAT or ACT.  But in the end, I believe ECNL worked for her.  It put her in front of the right people and her coach(es) have the right connections.  The funny thing is, this is the first school she emailed her freshman year and she is more than excited.  Going though the whole process has also helped her focus because she has seen a glimpse of what "Could Be" if she gets good grades and works hard.  The trips kicked her ass into gear because it got her excited and gave her a goal.  And some of the posters are right.  These east coast or mid west teams love our So Cal girls.  My dd did some visits to some great schools in the mid west. Loved em.  But in the end I believe she chose the best one for her.  I did my best to stay out of her way in the decision making.  I somehow knew she would eventually make the right decision.  For a while though, I didn't know what the right decision was.  But I did interact with every coach and school we visited.  I have been coaching Football for years.  But those D1 scholarships are full rides.  So this was much different.  There aren't many full rides out there.  And most of the time, it will come from a school that your dd has no interest in.  We were gracious and thanked all the coaches that hosted us making sure not to burn any bridges (especially knowing the transfer rates for womens college soccer).  She called and personally spoke to the coaches and informed them of her decision.  They all made it easy for her (the good ones also know of the transfer rate and don't like to burn bridges).  Some even asked if they could keep in touch just in case there were any changes.
> 
> Ask questions to some of the people who have been through this.  I know NoGoal was a great source of information for me.  And he was more that willing to answer my questions or talk soccer.  These forums have been an added bonus for me through this Journey.  I have made many life long friends through these forums.  I started a Fictitious Club through these Forums.  And ultimately, I believe my DD ended up on the team she is on now, and is now going to her "dream school" as she puts it, because of the connections I made here.  I still have 2 more girls and 2 more boys (my boys don't play soccer) to go though this with so I will be in this for a while but it's nice to see some of the fruits of my daughter's labor starting to manifest themselves.  Thank you to all the posters who have shared their experience and made me feel confident that my daughters time would also come when most people told me she would quit by the time she was 14.


 Well done by your dd Juve, congrats to you and the family pal!


----------



## Surfref

Juve 50 said:


> My DD just committed yesterday.  We were kind of lucky being on a top ECNL team so we didn't have to hire anyone or use a recruiting company/advisers.  She was on a big stage and routinely had numerous college coaches watching at Showcases and Tournaments.  Every coach she emailed came out to watch her.  Being 15, the decision has been a tough one with some incredible offers.  Lots of tears were shed and lots of prayers were said.  Most people are dumbfounded when they hear the school she actually chose knowing the schools that were offering (especially one).  The night she decided she got a text with a 90/90/100/100 4 year offer to another school on her list which was much more than she was offered at any school.  But in the end, she went with a school that will be close to her family, a school that has a great honors school on campus, where there are numerous students who share the same religious beliefs, a big 5 conference school with a very good sports program, and a coaching staff that coaches a style of play that works for her.  She also knows players on the team that are currently freshmen and she got to spend some time with them.  The coaching staff made us feel like family and the coach is a stand up guy with a great reputation.  Other College coaches endorsed the coach.  We are still talking money, but because we are moving to the state where she will be playing (not following her, made the decision to leave Cali long ago) there is the issue of out of state vs in state tuition and how much money she will need.  But the coach has assured us he is putting away a certain amount for her.  We are also applying for grants, needs based money, and there is money based on her GPA and Test Scores that will increase as she improves.  She is a Junior this year and still hasn't taken the SAT or ACT.  But in the end, I believe ECNL worked for her.  It put her in front of the right people and her coach(es) have the right connections.  The funny thing is, this is the first school she emailed her freshman year and she is more than excited.  Going though the whole process has also helped her focus because she has seen a glimpse of what "Could Be" if she gets good grades and works hard.  The trips kicked her ass into gear because it got her excited and gave her a goal.  And some of the posters are right.  These east coast or mid west teams love our So Cal girls.  My dd did some visits to some great schools in the mid west. Loved em.  But in the end I believe she chose the best one for her.  I did my best to stay out of her way in the decision making.  I somehow knew she would eventually make the right decision.  For a while though, I didn't know what the right decision was.  But I did interact with every coach and school we visited.  I have been coaching Football for years.  But those D1 scholarships are full rides.  So this was much different.  There aren't many full rides out there.  And most of the time, it will come from a school that your dd has no interest in.  We were gracious and thanked all the coaches that hosted us making sure not to burn any bridges (especially knowing the transfer rates for womens college soccer).  She called and personally spoke to the coaches and informed them of her decision.  They all made it easy for her (the good ones also know of the transfer rate and don't like to burn bridges).  Some even asked if they could keep in touch just in case there were any changes.
> 
> Ask questions to some of the people who have been through this.  I know NoGoal was a great source of information for me.  And he was more that willing to answer my questions or talk soccer.  These forums have been an added bonus for me through this Journey.  I have made many life long friends through these forums.  I started a Fictitious Club through these Forums.  And ultimately, I believe my DD ended up on the team she is on now, and is now going to her "dream school" as she puts it, because of the connections I made here.  I still have 2 more girls and 2 more boys (my boys don't play soccer) to go though this with so I will be in this for a while but it's nice to see some of the fruits of my daughter's labor starting to manifest themselves.  Thank you to all the posters who have shared their experience and made me feel confident that my daughters time would also come when most people told me she would quit by the time she was 14.


Great news.  Congratulations.  What state are you moving too?

Work on the coach for an in-state tuition waiver.  That was one of the things we negotiated with my DD and the coach made it happen which saved $11,000 in tuition costs.  My DD was out of that first college within a year and back near home this year going to a local JC to finish her gen ed classes and still playing.  You are spot on about not burning bridges.  We just took a trip up to the Bay area to visit two colleges that recruited her when she was in HS.  Both coaches remembered DD and were eager to get her into their programs.  They also know that they don't need to throw a huge scholarship at her since she gets free tuition in CA because I have a 50% Veterans disability rating.   The JC coach also sent them some game film and to our surprise so did the University coach from last year.


----------



## espola

I read back through the thread after getting a "like" for an older post.


----------



## espola

Sorry about that -- I made a long edit to the above that seems to have violated some new rule here.


----------



## Multi Sport

After my DDs game today one of her teammates had Heart issues and passed out. Paramedics were called, CPR was administered. Her teammate was revived and taken to the Hospital and is conscious and alert. 

As a parent, that has to be the scariest thing to go thru, especially if your kid is out of state.


----------



## Juve 50

Surfref said:


> Great news.  Congratulations.  What state are you moving too?
> 
> Work on the coach for an in-state tuition waiver.  That was one of the things we negotiated with my DD and the coach made it happen which saved $11,000 in tuition costs.  My DD was out of that first college within a year and back near home this year going to a local JC to finish her gen ed classes and still playing.  You are spot on about not burning bridges.  We just took a trip up to the Bay area to visit two colleges that recruited her when she was in HS.  Both coaches remembered DD and were eager to get her into their programs.  They also know that they don't need to throw a huge scholarship at her since she gets free tuition in CA because I have a 50% Veterans disability rating.   The JC coach also sent them some game film and to our surprise so did the University coach from last year.


We were planning on moving to AZ whether or not she chose ASU.  I spend about 5 hours a day in traffic and I can retire in roughly a year and a half.  I have family there and some things set up for me when I get there.  We definitely worked out the in state tuition.  So she will have family close to her.  And we already spend a lot of time out there.  She said the school already felt like home and that was when we knew she had decided.


----------



## sandshark

Funny because my daughter has all the tools and gifts needed, she has always been way above average size, speed, technical ability since the age 4. We have been told by several different coaches "she can play any college she chooses, she could write her own ticket IF she wishes." She has always played at a top level at a top level super club, also played in the YNL. She has played up in age for the past 3 years and still has this year and next year to go!  The best part is after all of this I don't think she wants to attend a college. She loves the game but maybe not so much on the idea of college other then to play more soccer. Yes her HS grades are all way above average. As we have come to find out as parents this journey has not been about college for her, it has been literally for the love of the game. We as parents don't care what she chooses as long as she is happy, of course the club and coaches around her all have their idea of what her dreams should be but the truth is we don't pay them to tell us what our daughters dreams SHOULD BE.


----------



## gkrent

sandshark said:


> She loves the game but maybe not so much on the idea of college other then to play more soccer. Yes her HS grades are all way above average. As we have come to find out as parents this journey has not been about college for her, it has been literally for the love of the game.


Would she go to college to play on best team she could so she could have post college playing options?  Or perhaps have a career revolving around the game?  Coaching?


----------



## sandshark

gkrent said:


> Would she go to college to play on best team she could so she could have post college playing options?  Or perhaps have a career revolving around the game?  Coaching?


 Funny you would say that because she has mentioned that she would love to be a coach and stay in the sport. She has also started to talk about playing for some specific colleges because several girls on her team are committed. My issue is she honestly wants to attend a college mainly for the opportunity to play more soccer, not as much the academics. She seems to be driven to do whatever it takes to play soccer and I know college will be her only avenue to play at a high level?  The way I see it if she does want to keep playing then she will wrap up a deal with a college and keep on going.


----------



## CaliKlines

sandshark said:


> Funny you would say that because she has mentioned that she would love to be a coach and stay in the sport. She has also started to talk about playing for some specific colleges because several girls on her team are committed. My issue is she honestly wants to attend a college mainly for the opportunity to play more soccer, not as much the academics. She seems to be driven to do whatever it takes to play soccer and I know college will be her only avenue to play at a high level?  The way I see it if she does want to keep playing then she will wrap up a deal with a college and keep on going.


Why limit her to being a coach? Guide her to being a DOC as well as a coach, and have her take some business accounting classes that could help her run a successful club. She doesn't have to graduate since it is not important to her, but it does help to have some of the accounting foundations, if she has aspirations of running her own club. Remember, this is just a suggestion...not a "she should do this" recommendation.


----------



## sandshark

CaliKlines said:


> Why limit her to being a coach? Guide her to being a DOC as well as a coach, and have her take some business accounting classes that could help her run a successful club. She doesn't have to graduate since it is not important to her, but it does help to have some of the accounting foundations, if she has aspirations of running her own club. Remember, this is just a suggestion...not a "she should do this" recommendation.


----------



## sandshark

Of course we will promote her taking advantage of college and learning skills to better her options in her future ventures. We as a family all shoot for the top. I'm very confident she will rise to the top of any profession she chooses. Honestly I would have zero interest in her being a part of the club soccer industry. The business ethics and dealing with the parents in club soccer is not anything I wish for my DD. Whatever she ends up doing I'm sure she will be her best.
Thank you for your input i appreciate it.


----------



## MakeAPlay

sandshark said:


> Funny you would say that because she has mentioned that she would love to be a coach and stay in the sport. She has also started to talk about playing for some specific colleges because several girls on her team are committed. My issue is she honestly wants to attend a college mainly for the opportunity to play more soccer, not as much the academics. She seems to be driven to do whatever it takes to play soccer and I know college will be her only avenue to play at a high level?  The way I see it if she does want to keep playing then she will wrap up a deal with a college and keep on going.


What is her grad year and what age group does she play in?  The only reason that I ask is because if she is in 8th grade or older the process has already started.  I know that my players school is working on their 2019 class of domestic players and working on 2017 and 2018 internationals.  The process starts quickly and the money goes just as quickly.  Now if money wasn't something that you care about then take your time.


----------



## gkrent

MakeAPlay said:


> What is her grad year and what age group does she play in?  The only reason that I ask is because if she is in 8th grade or older the process has already started.  I know that my players school is working on their 2019 class of domestic players and working on 2017 and 2018 internationals.  The process starts quickly and the money goes just as quickly.  Now if money wasn't something that you care about then take your time.


I agree with you but with a caveat...those top players that are filling up the recruiting classes of the Penn States, UCLAs and the Stanfords of the world don't have to do much to get recruited.  There is also more time if a kid is interested in a mid major or an Ivy.   If a kid is a good player but not YNT pool player or a regular on an ODP squad they will have to do a little more work but also have a little more time.  As for money I know seniors that committed for D1 schools that received athletic money...maybe not full cost of attendance but they did work something out and if they end up showing a strong work ethic and make an impact on the team there is/was more money for them in the future.  

One of my players was recruited by the school she ended up at December of her Senior year.  She paid a total of 5 figures out of pocket for a degree at jesuit catholic university.   The staff "found" money for her and made it work for her.  

I guess my point is all is not lost if you start the recruiting process on the late side if your player is solid with an outstanding work ethic.


----------



## NoGoal

gkrent said:


> I agree with you but with a caveat...those top players that are filling up the recruiting classes of the Penn States, UCLAs and the Stanfords of the world don't have to do much to get recruited.  There is also more time if a kid is interested in a mid major or an Ivy.   If a kid is a good player but not YNT pool player or a regular on an ODP squad they will have to do a little more work but also have a little more time.  As for money I know seniors that committed for D1 schools that received athletic money...maybe not full cost of attendance but they did work something out and if they end up showing a strong work ethic and make an impact on the team there is/was more money for them in the future.
> 
> One of my players was recruited by the school she ended up at December of her Senior year.  She paid a total of 5 figures out of pocket for a degree at jesuit catholic university.   The staff "found" money for her and made it work for her.
> 
> I guess my point is all is not lost if you start the recruiting process on the late side if your player is solid with an outstanding work ethic.


On anther note, Pac12 and Big10 schools athletic money is guaranteed.  So, if a player is hoping they will get money in year 2 or 3, it may not happen...since money is tied up for 4 yrs.  Those conference coaches can't take away a players athletic money forcing the player to transfer, freeing up money to give to another player.


----------



## Multi Sport

My sister committed to a D1 school here Senior year, four year full ride. That was back in 2000, so I guess times have changed a bit. I think more pressure is being put on the kids to sign early by the coaches and I don't agree with that. Parents are buying into the hype and are afraid that their kidn is going to be left out if they dont sign as soon as possible.My DD signed here Senior year to an NAIA school and still got money for soccer and academics.


----------



## espola

Multi Sport said:


> My sister committed to a D1 school here Senior year, four year full ride. That was back in 2000, so I guess times have changed a bit. I think more pressure is being put on the kids to sign early by the coaches and I don't agree with that. Parents are buying into the hype and are afraid that their kidn is going to be left out if they dont sign as soon as possible.My DD signed here Senior year to an NAIA school and still got money for soccer and academics.


NAIA has lot looser recruiting and scholarship system than NCAA.  Unfortunately, their numbers are declining.  The closest one to me, Cal State San Marcos,is in the process of converting to NCAA D2.


----------



## gkrent

NoGoal said:


> On anther note, Pac12 and Big10 schools athletic money is guaranteed.  So, if a player is hoping they will get money in year 2 or 3, it may not happen...since money is tied up for 4 yrs.  Those conference coaches can't take away a players athletic money forcing the player to transfer, freeing up money to give to another player.



I don't buy those guarantees.  Those go to top players that want to see the field.  If they are strongly encouraged to transfer (read:  benched), then that money is freed up.   Seen it!


----------



## NoGoal

gkrent said:


> I don't buy those guarantees.  Those go to top players that want to see the field.  If they are strongly encouraged to transfer (read:  benched), then that money is freed up.   Seen it!


That is the point of the reform.  College coaches in the Pac12 and Big10 can't say, I highly recommend you transfer, because you will never see the pitch, freeing up money.  The student athlete can say, I'm good coach.  I will keep working hard on the practice field.  The coach can't force their hand and the athletic money taken away from them. 
http://pac-12.com/article/2014/10/27/pac-12-universities-adopt-sweeping-reforms-student-athletes-guaranteeing

http://informedathlete.com/the-facts-about-guaranteed-multi-year-ncaa-di-scholarships/


----------



## gkrent

NoGoal said:


> That is the point of the reform.  College coaches in the Pac12 and Big10 can't say, I highly recommend you transfer, because you will never see the pitch, freeing up money.  The student athlete can say, I'm good coach.  I will keep working hard on the practice field.  The coach can't force their hand and the athletic money taken away from them.
> http://pac-12.com/article/2014/10/27/pac-12-universities-adopt-sweeping-reforms-student-athletes-guaranteeing
> 
> http://informedathlete.com/the-facts-about-guaranteed-multi-year-ncaa-di-scholarships/


Still, a player may walk away anyway because they want to see the field and actually want to quit/transfer and the program can cancel their scholarship.  Further, this only applies to the power 5 conferences.


----------



## NoGoal

gkrent said:


> Still, a player may walk away anyway because they want to see the field and actually want to quit/transfer and the program can cancel their scholarship.  Further, this only applies to the power 5 conferences.


That's the point.  If the player wants to walk away it's on their discretion, not because they were forced out....because the coach wants to give their money to a new player transferring in.  Also protects the athletic student in their Jr or Sr year and close to graduating in case their is a coaching change and the player doesn't fit the new coaches style of play.  It is a good thing if new rules are approved to protect the student athlete!

Lastly, I posted the 4 yr guarantee athletic ship applied to the Pac12 and Big10 (didn't know the other 3 Power 5 approved it as well).  I never posted it was for mid-majors conferences.


----------



## MakeAPlay

gkrent said:


> Still, a player may walk away anyway because they want to see the field and actually want to quit/transfer and the program can cancel their scholarship.  Further, this only applies to the power 5 conferences.


It's smart to do this research up front.  You can usually tell what plans the coach has for your player based upon the $$$ they are offered.  If they offer a lot of money then they are expecting a player to have an impact immediately.


----------



## gkrent

NoGoal said:


> If the player wants to walk away it's on their discretion, not because they were forced out....because the coach wants to give their money to a new player transferring in.


I agree with everything you are saying, but a coach can still "force out" a player that wants to play by not playing them.


----------



## mirage

gkrent said:


> I agree with everything you are saying, but a coach can still "force out" a player that wants to play by not playing them.


This phenomenon is not just in sports but in life and career in general.

If you are not  "A" or at least "B" player, no playing time, lousy raises or no promotions.  Natural selection will take care the attrition and people will be either be forced out or leave on their own looking for a better place, relative to themselves.

So the point is rather meaningless - don't you think?


----------



## mirage

MakeAPlay said:


> It's smart to do this research up front.  You can usually tell what plans the coach has for your player based upon the $$$ they are offered.  If they offer a lot of money then they are expecting a player to have an impact immediately.


Except if one plays for needs-based only institution without any merit-based scholarships....


----------



## Zerodenero

mirage said:


> This phenomenon is not just in sports but in life and career in general.
> 
> If you are not  "A" or at least "B" player, no playing time, lousy raises or no promotions.  Natural selection will take care the attrition and people will be either be forced out or leave on their own looking for a better place, relative to themselves.


Now your talking my language....Totally agree!


----------



## NoGoal

gkrent said:


> I agree with everything you are saying, but a coach can still "force out" a player that wants to play by not playing them.


We are going in circles.  The coach can't force out the player.  If the player is fine with being a practice squad player, supporting her teammates and concentrating on her education.  Is that horrible thing?


----------



## NoGoal

mirage said:


> This phenomenon is not just in sports but in life and career in general.
> 
> If you are not  "A" or at least "B" player, no playing time, lousy raises or no promotions.  Natural selection will take care the attrition and people will be either be forced out or leave on their own looking for a better place, relative to themselves.
> 
> So the point is rather meaningless - don't you think?


Every company though has employees who are happy at their current position, they don't have ambitions anymore of climbing the corporate ladder or playing the political game, satisfied with their salary, they could be empty nesters with no need to make more money.

This individual doesn't mean he/she is a bad employee.  They may be the best at their position.  At least this was my experience in the corporate world.


----------



## Zerodenero

mirage said:


> Except if one plays for needs-based only institution without any merit-based scholarships....


Agreed (w/a twist).....Based on your other post, you're familiar w/said process...and therefore you know there are other methods to gauge/determine the coaches interest/ anticipated impact their recruit is to have. In terms of $$, there are other means to receive $$ outside of needs based available....you just have to l$$k.


----------



## Glen

NoGoal said:


> We are going in circles.  The coach can't force out the player.  If the player is fine with being a practice squad player, supporting her teammates and concentrating on her education.  Is that horrible thing?


NG, I'm with you if the girl gets injured.  It's a terrific insurance policy.  But if a coach wants you off the team and your healthy, you'll get off unless you want to live a miserable existence.  You become the trash bin for the coaches.

Frankly, I wonder how supportive teammates view someone sitting on the bench and taking money that  could be used on other players to make the team better.  No one wants a supportive junior or senior that is never going to play - younger players get resentful.  They'll take a supportive freshman that may play in the future.


----------



## NoGoal

MakeAPlay said:


> It's smart to do this research up front.  You can usually tell what plans the coach has for your player based upon the $$$ they are offered.  If they offer a lot of money then they are expecting a player to have an impact immediately.


I also read in the athletic scholarship guarantee.  The money is only guaranteed for the 4 years if the players attends the univeristy as a incoming freshmen.


Glen said:


> NG, I'm with you if the girl gets injured.  It's a terrific insurance policy.  But if a coach wants you off the team and your healthy, you'll get off unless you want to live a miserable existence.  You become the trash bin for the coaches.
> 
> Frankly, I wonder how supportive teammates view someone sitting on the bench and taking money that  could be used on other players to make the team better.  No one wants a supportive junior or senior that is never going to play - younger players get resentful.  They'll take a supportive freshman that may play in the future.


Of course that situation could happen, but it's a new reform that came into effect this Fall.  I'm sure there will eventually be cases where a student athlete at a Power 5 conference is being forced out by their coach.  I can see it leading to future civil law suits, including bad press against the university.  We all know Universities hate bad press.  They don't want to see their students protesting and holding campus demonstrations.

I believe I read if the student athlete is an upper classmen and elects to take a leave of absence (let's say the coaches are making life a living hell for the player) they can return and will still have their athletic scholarship available.


----------



## NoGoal

Glen said:


> NG, I'm with you if the girl gets injured.  It's a terrific insurance policy.  But if a coach wants you off the team and your healthy, you'll get off unless you want to live a miserable existence.  You become the trash bin for the coaches.
> 
> Frankly, I wonder how supportive teammates view someone sitting on the bench and taking money that  could be used on other players to make the team better.  No one wants a supportive junior or senior that is never going to play - younger players get resentful.  They'll take a supportive freshman that may play in the future.


I hope nobody's kid ends up with a college coach who fosters this type of team culture you described above.   If so, the player and their parents didn't do enough research before committing to the program/university.


----------



## Glen

NoGoal said:


> I hope nobody's kid ends up with a college coach who fosters this type of team culture you described above.   If so, the player and their parents didn't do enough research before committing to the program/university.


This would happen routinely when I was in college - and that was without the guarantee scholarship rule.  I'm sure most college athletes you ask have either seen it on their own teams or saw it happen on other teams at their schools.  It's easier sometimes to have the kid quick than strip away their money.  

All of that said, you are right that a kid could stick through it all.  But at the end of the day, most kids don't want to show up everyday to a place they are unwanted.  And a coach can make you feel awfully unwanted.


----------



## MakeAPlay

mirage said:


> Except if one plays for needs-based only institution without any merit-based scholarships....


I am only referring to athletic money.


----------



## NoGoal

Glen said:


> This would happen routinely when I was in college - and that was without the guarantee scholarship rule.  I'm sure most college athletes you ask have either seen it on their own teams or saw it happen on other teams at their schools.  It's easier sometimes to have the kid quick than strip away their money.
> 
> All of that said, you are right that a kid could stick through it all.  But at the end of the day, most kids don't want to show up everyday to a place they are unwanted.  And a coach can make you feel awfully unwanted.


Exactly that was prior to this reform coming into effect this Fall of 2016.  To protect the student athlete.

IMO, it's a great reform and holds the coaches accountable for early recruiting.  Instead of discarding a student athlete who committed to the university when they also had other offers on the table.  This reform could reverse the trend of early verbal commits by 8th graders (see Texas) and HS underclassmens.  Big difference in annual renewability vs 4 yr guarantees athletic scholarship.


----------



## Glen

NoGoal said:


> Exactly that was prior to this reform coming into effect this Fall of 2016.  To protect the student athlete.
> 
> IMO, it's a great reform and holds the coaches accountable for early recruiting.  Instead of discarding a student athlete who committed to the university when they also had other offers on the table.  This reform could reverse the trend of early verbal commits by 8th graders (see Texas) and HS underclassmens.  Big difference in annual renewability vs 4 yr guarantees athletic scholarship.


I don't disagree with the reform.  And I hope it would have the impact of curtailing early recruiting, but I think that is a pipe dream without other reforms.    But I also think you are over emphasizing the reality of the protection.  Sure, a girl that has a career ending injury won't have any issues keeping a scholarship.  And I think that's what makes the reform a positive one.  A girl that simply isn't cutting it, however, is going to have a widely different experience.  And this reform could actually exacerbate isolating behavior by coaches, especially those with a lot of pressure to win.  Now coaches won't even have the option of taking away the scholarship.

And where is this mythical creature that you believe exists that is willing to show up to practice everyday for years when they are clearly unwanted?  I don't think too many of those people exist at high level college athletics.  They move on, get a ship from another school where they are wanted.  It's the kids with injuries that need the protection because they cannot move on.


----------



## NoGoal

Glen said:


> I don't disagree with the reform.  And I hope it would have the impact of curtailing early recruiting, but I think that is a pipe dream without other reforms.    But I also think you are over emphasizing the reality of the protection.  Sure, a girl that has a career ending injury won't have any issues keeping a scholarship.  And I think that's what makes the reform a positive one.  A girl that simply isn't cutting it, however, is going to have a widely different experience.  And this reform could actually exacerbate isolating behavior by coaches, especially those with a lot of pressure to win.  Now coaches won't even have the option of taking away the scholarship.
> 
> And where is this mythical creature that you believe exists that is willing to show up to practice everyday for years when they are clearly unwanted?  I don't think too many of those people exist at high level college athletics.  They move on, get a ship from another school where they are wanted.  It's the kids with injuries that need the protection because they cannot move on.


You are not accounting for the probability of a civil law suit which can probably be filed by the student athlete.  Especially a player being forced out by the head coach to free up money.  It's not like the scholarship is based on being renewed annually and thus an out clause.  I'm no lawyer, but I have to imagine....there will be litigation on this very subject in the future.

Like I posted it just went into effect.  We won't know how it transpires for at least a couple of years, when coaches have money tied up on an underperforming player.

I can also see coaches offering less money to freshmen recruits.  The college players who meet or exceed expectations are then rewarded with more athletic ship money their sophomore, jr and sr year.


----------



## Friesland

MakeAPlay said:


> It's smart to do this research up front.  You can usually tell what plans the coach has for your player based upon the $$$ they are offered.  If they offer a lot of money then they are expecting a player to have an impact immediately.


Now if you can check your crystal ball for whether the coach will last or not...


----------



## MakeAPlay

Here is a tip.  Don't travel with your kid to the out of town showcases that are reached be plane (PDA, ECNL finals, Disney Showcase) unless you are the chaperone.  You can still go but don't stay with the team it gives your player the feel for traveling with their team that they will experience in college.  My player told me that she is so used to doing it now thanks to traveling with her club and the YNT.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Anybody know how many scholarships are offered by a PAC 12 vs. a WCC school?  

What would be considered a good offer, typical offer to a player from either on if these conferences?


----------



## MakeAPlay

eastbaysoccer said:


> Anybody know how many scholarships are offered by a PAC 12 vs. a WCC school?
> 
> What would be considered a good offer, typical offer to a player from either on if these conferences?


If they are a fully funded program then they both offer 14.  The difference being that the Pac 12 is one of two conferences that guarantee their scholarships for 4 years.  What a good offer is depends upon the family and the player.  Typically the closer to 100% that your player is offered in a total package, the sooner the player is expected to contribute.  A 100% offer to Sam Houston State might not be as good as a 50% offer to Long Beach St. depending what the family and player want and can afford.  If your player gets an offer from a school that she wants to go to and your family can afford it.  That is a good offer.  If you are paying less for college than you paid for club or high school (or club and high school) soccer, then that is a good offer.

Honestly there are some schools that your player would never consider so even if they offered 100% it is still a bad offer.  I hope that helps.


----------



## mirage

MakeAPlay said:


> If they are a fully funded program then they both offer 14.......


There you go again... Just assumes its for women.  OP's question does not specify gender so it could be for girls but it can also be for boys.

For Men, NCAA D1 is 9.9EP and Women is 14EP.  Its EP (equivalent persons) because schools can divided it up into many more student athletes.

Here is a link to general site: http://www.scholarshipstats.com/soccer.html

You can find stats for each school of interest.  Its listed alphabetically by State.  It also gives average amount for the particular school of interest.  You can figure out if its a good offer or not by comparing to the average.


----------



## MakeAPlay

mirage said:


> There you go again... Just assumes its for women.  OP's question does not specify gender so it could be for girls but it can also be for boys.
> 
> For Men, NCAA D1 is 9.9EP and Women is 14EP.  Its EP (equivalent persons) because schools can divided it up into many more student athletes.
> 
> Here is a link to general site: http://www.scholarshipstats.com/soccer.html
> 
> You can find stats for each school of interest.  Its listed alphabetically by State.  It also gives average amount for the particular school of interest.  You can figure out if its a good offer or not by comparing to the average.



Agreed.  However the entire thread is about women's college soccer recruiting.  There might be a few posts regarding men's soccer buried somewhere in there.  Take it personally if you want mirage.  I will stick with my position that it depends upon the player and the family whether it is a good offer.  Taking a ton of money to go to a bad fit is not a good offer no matter what the chart says.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

So a 50% or above at a top 150 US news ranked university is a good deal?

A 80% at a podunk, unknown naia school might not be.

Which WCC schools offer 14?  Or is it more like 8 since some don't have football.


----------



## mirage

MakeAPlay said:


> I figured that I would create a place for parents that have been through the process to share insights and answer questions for parents just starting the process or looking ahead to the start of the process.  With so much misinformation out there I thought that having a thread to sort it out might be useful.


This quote is from your original post on this thread titled "Recruiting Tips for Parents Just Starting the Process".

Where does it say its for girls focused???

I know its hard believe on college section that boys actually goto college and play soccer.  The value of this thread was, just as the title says, for parents with kids just going through the process - boys and girls.  My sense is that, not just myself but many others have contributed to the thread sharing information that benefit boys and girls.  Not just a post here and there.

But since its your thread, if you don't want to hear or consider any boys trying to get into the best schools and play soccer, then those of us with boys will simply stop posting and interacting on this thread.  Perhaps you can get Dom to retitle as for DD's parents.


----------



## mirage

MakeAPlay said:


> ...... Take it personally if you want mirage.  I will stick with my position that it depends upon the player and the family whether it is a good offer.  Taking a ton of money to go to a bad fit is not a good offer no matter what the chart says.


Take what personally???  I have no interest in getting into public display of nonsense, you and Messi had going.  Go find another member to take the bate.

Your comment about the fit is very correct and it is always family and player dependent.  There is no one size-fits all kind of response on this subject, regardless of gender.

Was simply trying to provide a complete response to the question by eastbay.


----------



## MakeAPlay

mirage said:


> Take what personally???  I have no interest in getting into public display of nonsense, you and Messi had going.  Go find another member to take the bate.
> 
> Your comment about the fit is very correct and it is always family and player dependent.  There is no one size-fits all kind of response on this subject, regardless of gender.
> 
> Was simply trying to provide a complete response to the question by eastbay.


Look I am not trying to get into it with you.  Boys info is just as valuable as girls info.  The tone of your response (There you go again I believe is how you put it) is what had me confused.


----------



## MakeAPlay

eastbaysoccer said:


> So a 50% or above at a top 150 US news ranked university is a good deal?
> 
> A 80% at a podunk, unknown naia school might not be.
> 
> Which WCC schools offer 14?  Or is it more like 8 since some don't have football.


I'm not sure which ones offer 14.  I would check with the coach.  Now are you talking about girls?  I just want to be sure so as not to offend mirage.


----------



## offthecrossbar

mirage said:


> There you go again... Just assumes its for women.  OP's question does not specify gender so it could be for girls but it can also be for boys.
> 
> For Men, NCAA D1 is 9.9EP and Women is 14EP.  Its EP (equivalent persons) because schools can divided it up into many more student athletes.
> 
> Here is a link to general site: http://www.scholarshipstats.com/soccer.html
> 
> You can find stats for each school of interest.  Its listed alphabetically by State.  It also gives average amount for the particular school of interest.  You can figure out if its a good offer or not by comparing to the average.


Beware trying to negotiate using the average on the website link.  A college coach will extend an offer based on how much they value the player.


----------



## Zerodenero

mirage said:


> This quote is from your original post on this thread titled "Recruiting Tips for Parents Just Starting the Process".
> 
> Where does it say its for girls focused???
> 
> I know its hard believe on college section that boys actually goto college and play soccer.  The value of this thread was, just as the title says, for parents with kids just going through the process - boys and girls.  My sense is that, not just myself but many others have contributed to the thread sharing information that benefit boys and girls.  Not just a post here and there.
> 
> But since its your thread, if you don't want to hear or consider any boys trying to get into the best schools and play soccer, then those of us with boys will simply stop posting and interacting on this thread.  Perhaps you can get Dom to retitle as for DD's parents.


Mirage- Pay it forward and continue to share intel/experiences that you have.... To do otherwise is a waste of informative value.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

The averagebon the website include other female sports.  Some schools will award more for volleyball and softball than soccer


----------



## mirage

offthecrossbar said:


> Beware trying to negotiate using the average on the website link.  A college coach will extend an offer based on how much they value the player.


That's a good point.  Say, one can gets 90% and another 10%, and between the two, there's the average.  

What it does say is that if you are getting more than average, then probably you're valued more tan those that are getting less than average.  So the question is the player bringing the average up or down....  

That said, I'm sure the coaches take academic merits into the equation so if a player is valued more and has higher GPA, its possible that the athletic money is less than average because the academic money will more than makeup the difference.  The result is that the program will have more money to spread to other players w/lower grade and desired.


----------



## MakeAPlay

mirage said:


> That's a good point.  Say, one can gets 90% and another 10%, and between the two, there's the average.
> 
> What it does say is that if you are getting more than average, then probably you're valued more tan those that are getting less than average.  So the question is the player bringing the average up or down....
> 
> That said, I'm sure the coaches take academic merits into the equation so if a player is valued more and has higher GPA, its possible that the athletic money is less than average because the academic money will more than makeup the difference.  The result is that the program will have more money to spread to other players w/lower grade and desired.


Bingo.  That is why I said that you have to look at the total award.  I know a player that is getting 100% at a top school and is playing and none of it is athletic based aid.  Most of the time when it gets down to numbers at some point the family's financial situation comes up so that the coach can evaluate what they have to offer a desired prospect in order to make if feasible for them to attend.  

On the girl's side that is another reason why what Stanford does is so impressive.  A 75% scholarship at Stanford still means the family has to come up with like $18k a year.  Don't get me wrong only having to pay $72k is a deal for 4 year at Stanford but it is a consideration if the family doesn't have that amount saved in a college savings program or available through tuition reimbursement at work.  75% at San Diego St. on the other hand means the family has to pay like $4k.  That's a big difference.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

My dd received a set athletic scholarship.  The school is allowing her to combine academic also which could mean 100% coverage.

From what I understand, if u get fafsa that cuts into your athletic.  I agree,  the amount of athletic scholarship will Likely be proportional to how much the coach Values u.  A 50% from a school that offers 14 scholarships  IMO is lesser than school that offers 50% that only has 7 scholarships to give.  The latter really wants u.  The former has at least 27 more girls they can give .5 to.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

MakeAPlay said:


> Bingo.  That is why I said that you have to look at the total award.  I know a player that is getting 100% at a top school and is playing and none of it is athletic based aid.  Most of the time when it gets down to numbers at some point the family's financial situation comes up so that the coach can evaluate what they have to offer a desired prospect in order to make if feasible for them to attend.
> 
> On the girl's side that is another reason why what Stanford does is so impressive.  A 75% scholarship at Stanford still means the family has to come up with like $18k a year.  Don't get me wrong only having to pay $72k is a deal for 4 year at Stanford but it is a consideration if the family doesn't have that amount saved in a college savings program or available through tuition reimbursement at work.  75% at San Diego St. on the other hand means the family has to pay like $4k.  That's a big difference.


Very true.  Plus if your dd is going to major in education of sociology,  Sdsu really makes more sense.  Save the extra money for grad school.  Or get your phd at Stanford on tuition waiver and stipend.


----------



## MakeAPlay

eastbaysoccer said:


> Very true.  Plus if your dd is going to major in education of sociology,  Sdsu really makes more sense.  Save the extra money for grad school.  Or get your phd at Stanford on tuition waiver and stipend.


Or major in business.  Their marketing program is awesome.  My brother graduated from their environmental engineering program and he raves about it.  Personally I would rather go to SDSU or UCSB than many of the options in the south or midwest but that is a choice that all players and their families must make.  No choice is perfect for everyone.  I know that I told my player to pick a school that she would want to go to if soccer ended tomorrow.  So far so good.


----------



## offthecrossbar

eastbaysoccer said:


> My dd received a set athletic scholarship.  The school is allowing her to combine academic also which could mean 100% coverage.
> 
> From what I understand, if u get fafsa that cuts into your athletic.  I agree,  the amount of athletic scholarship will Likely be proportional to how much the coach Values u.  A 50% from a school that offers 14 scholarships  IMO is lesser than school that offers 50% that only has 7 scholarships to give.  The latter really wants u.  The former has at least 27 more girls they can give .5 to.


It's not that black and white though.  A 100% ride at Podunk U with no academic accolades vs 50% at top 100 nationally ranked university is apples and oranges.  It all depends on what the player and family values more and their financials.

I knew of a family that didn't care what school their DD committed too as long as it was a full ride.  I personally would educate my DD to accept a 50% scholarship offer at CAL vs a 100% scholarship offer at Wyoming St.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

offthecrossbar said:


> It's not that black and white though.  A 100% ride at Podunk U with no academic accolades vs 50% at top 100 nationally ranked university is apples and oranges.  It all depends on what the player and family values more and their financials.
> 
> I knew of a family that didn't care what school their DD committed too as long as it was a full ride.  I personally would educate my DD to accept a 50% scholarship offer at CAL vs a 100% scholarship offer at Wyoming St.


A very focused kid would score just as high on the MCAT if she went to Wyoming or CAL.  But in the end at Wyoming she would have a 4.0 gpa an have played in every game in her 4 year career.  In the end sh goes to med school and has no debt.  

I hear what u are saying though.  If your kid has no idea what she wants to do got to the best school you can get accepted to.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

MakeAPlay said:


> Or major in business.  Their marketing program is awesome.  My brother graduated from their environmental engineering program and he raves about it.  Personally I would rather go to SDSU or UCSB than many of the options in the south or midwest but that is a choice that all players and their families must make.  No choice is perfect for everyone.  I know that I told my player to pick a school that she would want to go to if soccer ended tomorrow.  So far so good.


It all depeneds.  If the school is guaranteeing money take it and run provided the school has a good academic program ( tier 1 as per US News).  If he soccer programs falls of the map, transfer .


----------



## Mystery Train

In response to an email from my daughter, a Div 1 school she was checking out explained that they were bound by NCAA rules to not communicate directly with her until the spring of her Junior year (she's a frosh).  I had a college basketball coach friend of mine confirm that rule, but he did say that the contact rules are more relaxed for D2&3, and nonexistent for NAIA.  My question:  for the kids who have verbally committed to D1 schools as frosh or soph, how do they know the school they are committing to is interested if the coaches can't recruit them yet?  Is it back channel evasion of NCAA rules or are the players making the verbal commitment with the hope that there will be interest and a place?  Thanks.


----------



## Bernie Sanders

Mystery Train said:


> In response to an email from my daughter, a Div 1 school she was checking out explained that they were bound by NCAA rules to not communicate directly with her until the spring of her Junior year (she's a frosh).  I had a college basketball coach friend of mine confirm that rule, but he did say that the contact rules are more relaxed for D2&3, and nonexistent for NAIA.  My question:  for the kids who have verbally committed to D1 schools as frosh or soph, how do they know the school they are committing to is interested if the coaches can't recruit them yet?  Is it back channel evasion of NCAA rules or are the players making the verbal commitment with the hope that there will be interest and a place?  Thanks.


Third parties are ok.
Usually her club coach, if you trust him or her.
Also, your kid can contact them by phone at a certain age, (I forget) as long as they pick up when she calls.
Have her call and leave a message saying when she will call back.
If she calls back, and they answer, theyre interested.


----------



## espola

Mystery Train said:


> In response to an email from my daughter, a Div 1 school she was checking out explained that they were bound by NCAA rules to not communicate directly with her until the spring of her Junior year (she's a frosh).  I had a college basketball coach friend of mine confirm that rule, but he did say that the contact rules are more relaxed for D2&3, and nonexistent for NAIA.  My question:  for the kids who have verbally committed to D1 schools as frosh or soph, how do they know the school they are committing to is interested if the coaches can't recruit them yet?  Is it back channel evasion of NCAA rules or are the players making the verbal commitment with the hope that there will be interest and a place?  Thanks.


The coaches cannot approach a young prospect, but they can answer any questions when asked directly, such as face-to-face and on the phone.   At a tournament in Las Vegas, I got bold enough to hand out brochures to the obvious coaches - they wanted to know right up front which ones were old enough so they could talk to them.   At the same tournament were some coaches from NAIA schools.  They were not bound by NCAA recruiting rules so they were making direct pitches to every player they liked and even joked about their advantage over the NCAA coaches.

I recall a local college coach who used to come watch our high school games when my son was sophomore.  I knew him from club soccer business, so I sat next to him once and asked him if he needed any information about our players.  His only answer was a cryptic "I already know which player I am interested in".  Next year his school made my son an offer.

Another odd NCAA situation - our club board tried once to get a group discount for our players to a local college's games.  The college responded that they would let them in free as a group, but only if they were all under a cutoff age (13, I think) so they couldn't be accused of illegal recruiting.


----------



## NoGoal

Bernie Sanders said:


> Third parties are ok.
> Usually her club coach, if you trust him or her.
> Also, your kid can contact them by phone at a certain age, (I forget) as long as they pick up when she calls.
> Have her call and leave a message saying when she will call back.
> If she calls back, and they answer, theyre interested.


Bernie is correct, a player can contact the college coaches directly.  The college coaches can't return the call, if they are a HS Freshmen or Sophomore though.  

Your DD can also send an email when she plans to call, besides leaving a voice message.  If the player also has the coaches cell phone (meaning they are very interested). She can send a text and say what time your DD will be calling.  They just can't reply to the text.  

BTW, there is a fairly new rule.  College coaches can  text players directly their Junior year.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mystery Train said:


> In response to an email from my daughter, a Div 1 school she was checking out explained that they were bound by NCAA rules to not communicate directly with her until the spring of her Junior year (she's a frosh).  I had a college basketball coach friend of mine confirm that rule, but he did say that the contact rules are more relaxed for D2&3, and nonexistent for NAIA.  My question:  for the kids who have verbally committed to D1 schools as frosh or soph, how do they know the school they are committing to is interested if the coaches can't recruit them yet?  Is it back channel evasion of NCAA rules or are the players making the verbal commitment with the hope that there will be interest and a place?  Thanks.


As Bernie and NoGoal said.  Contact is initiated usually through the club coach (our experience).  He calls us and says they want you to call at such and such time.  You call, they answer and they converse.  Fast forward weeks, months or years depending upon the timeline of initial contact.  Offer is either extended on unofficial campus visit or following visit and/or camp.  That is a compressed timeline and if you want more specifics about our situation then PM me.  

Disclaimer:  This is the general framework.  Individual recruiting experiences may vary based upon the player.


----------



## Mystery Train

Thanks for all the responses.  Very helpful stuff!


----------



## CaliKlines

MT, another way to keep your player in front of college coaches is to attend the Legends College ID camp. It is designed for individuals to showcase their talents and skills to bunch of college coaches in interactive, small group sessions. I have attached a link that lists the college programs that will be in attendance, and your DD could send an email to the programs that she has interest. It is a great way for the coaches to evaluate your player, and for her to evaluate those coaches. (Since they are running the drills.)
http://www.legendsfc.net/programs/college-id-camps/


----------



## eastbaysoccer

If a coach want u he/she will invite you to camp and for an unofficial visit.  Coaches already have eyes on certain players.  If u are not one of them it's not worth attending.  

If you are not in the WNT pool or a minimum ODP state team / pdp ecnl /ID2 it's a upward climb.


----------



## MakeAPlay

CaliKlines said:


> MT, another way to keep your player in front of college coaches is to attend the Legends College ID camp. It is designed for individuals to showcase their talents and skills to bunch of college coaches in interactive, small group sessions. I have attached a link that lists the college programs that will be in attendance, and your DD could send an email to the programs that she has interest. It is a great way for the coaches to evaluate your player, and for her to evaluate those coaches. (Since they are running the drills.)
> http://www.legendsfc.net/programs/college-id-camps/


Yeah all of the top players attend the Legends Showcase in order to get recruited.  Oops sorry, I must have stroked out for a second.  Only posers or Legends players attend this showcase.


----------



## CaliKlines

MakeAPlay said:


> Only posers or Legends players attend this showcase.


Seriously, did someone pee in your Wheaties? This event is helpful to players who are unsure about their future collegiate plans, and would like the opportunity to run thru drills designed and *implemented* by a wide variety of college coaches. Mystery Train seems to be looking for advice to help his DD advance her early college aspirations. This event is sold out EVERY year by players from Legends, and many other terrific clubs such as Arsenal, Pats, Blues, West Coast, Beach, Real So Cal, CZ Elite, Fram, Slammers and others. It has proven very helpful to many players over the 4 years that it has been around, and I know that it was exceedingly helpful in getting my DD committed to a great school and a tremendous soccer program. Just thought I would share the advice...didn't mean to make you feel so threatened.


----------



## RiverRat

have to agree with cali...my daughter went with 2 teammates last year and i saw backpacks from a bunch of other clubs. btw, my kid isn't a poser, and it's kinda disrespectful for you to say that. she was nervous last year, but is going back with more confidence this time.


----------



## Mystery Train

I think MAP is just having fun yanking Cali's chain.  I don't have a dog in the Legends vs everyone else brawl.  We've actually did the camp last year as a U14 just to give her some experience in that kind of setting.  She had a great time and it didn't cost much at all.  I understand that these coaches aren't attending with the hopes of getting new kids on their radar, but she would do it again because it was a positive experience, and she learned a lot from the coaches who were there.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mystery Train said:


> I think MAP is just having fun yanking Cali's chain.  I don't have a dog in the Legends vs everyone else brawl.  We've actually did the camp last year as a U14 just to give her some experience in that kind of setting.  She had a great time and it didn't cost much at all.  I understand that these coaches aren't attending with the hopes of getting new kids on their radar, but she would do it again because it was a positive experience, and she learned a lot from the coaches who were there.


Bingo.  I like Cali's spunk.  This is all fun for me.  My player is through the process and in college.  I just like to poke a little fun and stir the pot. There are only a few posters who's kids I have seen play and all of them are pretty awesome.


----------



## MakeAPlay

RiverRat said:


> have to agree with cali...my daughter went with 2 teammates last year and i saw backpacks from a bunch of other clubs. btw, my kid isn't a poser, and it's kinda disrespectful for you to say that. she was nervous last year, but is going back with more confidence this time.


I apologize.  I was just having a little fun stirring the pot.  I wouldn't know if your kid was a poser or not.  I haven't seen her play.  I just like to mess with rah rah types like Cali.


----------



## Zerodenero

MakeAPlay said:


> I apologize.  I was just having a little fun stirring the pot.  I wouldn't know if your kid was a poser or not.  I haven't seen her play.  I just like to mess with rah rah types like Cali.


Definelty been a min or two since cali last waived his Pom-Poms.

Sorta miss it


----------



## GKDad65

A round of Kool-Aid, on the house, for everyone....Cheers!


----------



## Calisoccer11

CaliKlines said:


> MT, another way to keep your player in front of college coaches is to attend the Legends College ID camp. It is designed for individuals to showcase their talents and skills to bunch of college coaches in interactive, small group sessions. I have attached a link that lists the college programs that will be in attendance, and your DD could send an email to the programs that she has interest. It is a great way for the coaches to evaluate your player, and for her to evaluate those coaches. (Since they are running the drills.)
> http://www.legendsfc.net/programs/college-id-camps/


What's the deal with CIF rules and attending these kind of camps during HS season?


----------



## CaliKlines

Calisoccer11 said:


> What's the deal with CIF rules and attending these kind of camps during HS season?


The camp meets all CIF rules and regulations...I think the main one is that they do not participate in any activities that are greater than 5 on 5. The college coaches run all of the drills in small groups, so it is really just a training session, not a competition. The most I've ever seen is a 2 on 3 drill run by a Pac12 coach. The spirit of the event is to give these girls some up close and personal exposure to the training techniques of some great academic institutions, while giving the coaches an opportunity to evaluate the talent and skill level of the participants. A number of coaches have also mentioned to me that they liked seeing how the campers respond to their instruction, rather than just sitting on a sideline and watching them play.


----------



## Calisoccer11

CaliKlines said:


> The camp meets all CIF rules and regulations...I think the main one is that they do not participate in any activities that are greater than 5 on 5. The college coaches run all of the drills in small groups, so it is really just a training session, not a competition. The most I've ever seen is a 2 on 3 drill run by a Pac12 coach. The spirit of the event is to give these girls some up close and personal exposure to the training techniques of some great academic institutions, while giving the coaches an opportunity to evaluate the talent and skill level of the participants. A number of coaches have also mentioned to me that they liked seeing how the campers respond to their instruction, rather than just sitting on a sideline and watching them play.


Thank you for the info!


----------



## MakeAPlay

CaliKlines said:


> Seriously, did someone pee in your Wheaties? This event is helpful to players who are unsure about their future collegiate plans, and would like the opportunity to run thru drills designed and *implemented* by a wide variety of college coaches. Mystery Train seems to be looking for advice to help his DD advance her early college aspirations. This event is sold out EVERY year by players from Legends, and many other terrific clubs such as Arsenal, Pats, Blues, West Coast, Beach, Real So Cal, CZ Elite, Fram, Slammers and others. It has proven very helpful to many players over the 4 years that it has been around, and I know that it was exceedingly helpful in getting my DD committed to a great school and a tremendous soccer program. Just thought I would share the advice...didn't mean to make you feel so threatened.


I just noticed this post so here goes.  I don't feel threatened at all Cali.  To feel threatened you would have to have something to lose.  My daughter is on the fast track in soccer and already has an enviable resume.  My player is past the ID camp stage and actually only attended 2 camps at the school she is attending at the request of the coaching staff.  In the summer camp that she attended her freshman year of HS the camp had one team composes of the players that they were actually recruiting playing with some potential recruits.  In the winter camp she played with some of her current teammates that were also invited and had already signed letters of intent.

These shotgun style camps may help but it was completely outside of my experience.  My player only attended camps where they were simply figuring out how much of an offer was going to be tendered and she already had an offer from one of her other two finalist. Most of her recruiting was done at ECNL events and the ODP regional and national championships.  We never sent out one video or hired a service.  But hey maybe it helped your player.  Maybe you are just a good shill for Legends.  We will see in fall 2018.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Oh and I hear that Boca OC is having tryouts.  It's really hush hush but I hear they are at the tip of the developmental pyramid.


----------



## CaliKlines

MakeAPlay said:


> I just noticed this post so here goes.  I don't feel threatened at all Cali.  To feel threatened you would have to have something to lose.  My daughter is on the fast track in soccer and already has an enviable resume.  My player is past the ID camp stage and actually only attended 2 camps at the school she is attending at the request of the coaching staff.  In the summer camp that she attended her freshman year of HS the camp had one team composes of the players that they were actually recruiting playing with some potential recruits.  In the winter camp she played with some of her current teammates that were also invited and had already signed letters of intent.
> 
> These shotgun style camps may help but it was completely outside of my experience.  My player only attended camps where they were simply figuring out how much of an offer was going to be tendered and she already had an offer from one of her other two finalist. Most of her recruiting was done at ECNL events and the ODP regional and national championships.  We never sent out one video or hired a service.  But hey maybe it helped your player.  Maybe you are just a good shill for Legends.  We will see in fall 2018.


But your experience is not the only way. You either feel threatened or you feel insecure because most posters don't feel the incessant need to keep repeating their player's accolades over and over. My daughter participated in the Legends College ID Showcase (Jan 21st and 22nd), never created or sent out a video, never hired a service, and was recruited at USYS National League events, and USYS National Championship finals. The coach even visited a couple of high school games. Her method was effective, but there are other paths...even though we didn't create a video, it can be helpful for some players. We didn't join NCSA or CaptainU, but I am sure those organizations provide helpful instruction as well. There isn't just one road to the destination, and it is very disingenuous for you to ridicule routes that are different from your own. Actually, I could care less what you do, but I just want to make sure that families just starting the process see all options.


----------



## NoGoal

CaliKlines said:


> But your experience is not the only way. You either feel threatened or you feel insecure because most posters don't feel the incessant need to keep repeating their player's accolades over and over. My daughter participated in the Legends College ID Showcase (Jan 21st and 22nd), never created or sent out a video, never hired a service, and was recruited at USYS National League events, and USYS National Championship finals. The coach even visited a couple of high school games. Her method was effective, but there are other paths...even though we didn't create a video, it can be helpful for some players. We didn't join NCSA or CaptainU, but I am sure those organizations provide helpful instruction as well. There isn't just one road to the destination, and it is very disingenuous for you to ridicule routes that are different from your own. Actually, I could care less what you do, but I just want to make sure that families just starting the process see all options.


You did use berecruited though.


----------



## CaliKlines

NoGoal said:


> You did use berecruited though.


Yes, she signed up for a number of free profiles. SINC, BeRecruited, CaptainU, and probably 2 or 3 others. Why not? They're free. I hope everyone signs up for those profiles, and fills out the recruiting questionnaires, and sends their emails, and follows up on the schools that show interest.


----------



## NoGoal

CaliKlines said:


> Yes, she signed up for a number of free profiles. SINC, BeRecruited, CaptainU, and probably 2 or 3 others. Why not? They're free. I hope everyone signs up for those profiles, and fills out the recruiting questionnaires, and sends their emails, and follows up on the schools that show interest.


Easy cowboy, errr Legendsboy!  I was pointing out you posted you didn't use the recruiting websites like CaptainU or NCSA.   Now you posted you did sign-up for CaptainU.  Which one is it, did you or didn't you?  LOL!


----------



## CaliKlines

NoGoal said:


> Easy cowboy, errr Legendsboy!  I was pointing out you posted you didn't use the recruiting websites like CaptainU or NCSA.   Now you posted you did sign-up for CaptainU.  Which one is it, did you or didn't you?  LOL!


Yes, she signed up for a number of free profiles. SINC, BeRecruited, CaptainU, and probably 2 or 3 others. Why not? They're free. I hope everyone signs up for those profiles, and fills out the recruiting questionnaires, and sends their emails, and follows up on the schools that show interest. LOL!


----------



## NoGoal

CaliKlines said:


> Yes, she signed up for a number of free profiles. SINC, BeRecruited, CaptainU, and probably 2 or 3 others. Why not? They're free. I hope everyone signs up for those profiles, and fills out the recruiting questionnaires, and sends their emails, and follows up on the schools that show interest. LOL!





			
				CaliKlines said:
			
		

> We didn't join NCSA or CaptainU, but I am sure those organizations provide helpful instruction as well.


Stop pivoting and answer why you posted she didn't use CaptainU.  When in fact your family did!


----------



## NoGoal

Legendsboy, There is nothing wrong using recruiting websites.  Just don't type out of both sides of your keyboard!


----------



## MakeAPlay

CaliKlines said:


> But your experience is not the only way. You either feel threatened or you feel insecure because most posters don't feel the incessant need to keep repeating their player's accolades over and over. My daughter participated in the Legends College ID Showcase (Jan 21st and 22nd), never created or sent out a video, never hired a service, and was recruited at USYS National League events, and USYS National Championship finals. The coach even visited a couple of high school games. Her method was effective, but there are other paths...even though we didn't create a video, it can be helpful for some players. We didn't join NCSA or CaptainU, but I am sure those organizations provide helpful instruction as well. There isn't just one road to the destination, and it is very disingenuous for you to ridicule routes that are different from your own. Actually, I could care less what you do, but I just want to make sure that families just starting the process see all options.


Perhaps you may feel ridiculed because you are ridiculous.  Hyping up routes that highlight your club.  Pretty funny if you ask me but dangerous to those who believe you.  Regarding my player please tell me one accolade she has or where she played club at since apparently I put her accolades out there. Please quote my specific posts if you can.  Also what school does she attend?  She may be playing against your player before you know it assuming yours sees the field her first two years.

Let me make it clear.  You don't threaten me.  If you had a gun and a ski mask you still wouldn't threaten me.  You are Orange County threatening which is friendly where I came from.  And not once did I say my players situation was normal.  To paraphrase the poet Jay Z, "she be performin like Josh Norman she ain't normal n****!"

Was North Carolina State your daughters first choice or an option after her actual first choice declined to make an offer?  You talk about the "major" schools at the Legends showcase, did any of them offer your player?  You talk about being disingenuous yet you don't tell the whole story.


----------



## CaliKlines

MakeAPlay said:


> Perhaps you may feel ridiculed because you are ridiculous.  Hyping up routes that highlight your club. Those are the routes that I am most acutely aware of...and which have been very successful for many players, including my own.  Pretty funny if you ask me but dangerous to those who believe you. Dangerous or successful?  Regarding my player please tell me one accolade she has or where she played club at since apparently I put her accolades out there. Have you repeatedly claimed that she a "straight A" student? Have you repeated claimed that she has already made the Women's U20 team for France? Have you repeatedly claimed she was involved in ECNL "national championships"? Haven't you repeatedly claimed she was involved in many ODP events? I am very happy for her success, but it seems like you attack others that espouse a different route. Please quote my specific posts if you can.  Also what school does she attend? UCLA  She may be playing against your player before you know it assuming yours sees the field her first two years. And if yours doesn't get displaced by a new and better recruit.
> 
> Let me make it clear.  You don't threaten me. So then you are saying it is coming from insecurity?  If you had a gun and a ski mask you still wouldn't threaten me.  You are Orange County threatening which is friendly where I came from.  And not once did I say my players situation was normal. I didn't say it was normal either. She has earned her success via one route, of which there are many.  To paraphrase the poet Jay Z, "she be performin like Josh Norman she ain't normal n****!"
> 
> Was North Carolina State your daughters first choice or an option after her actual first choice declined to make an offer? Yes, after visiting the campus and seeing their facilities, and talking to the coach about their future recruits, and reviewing the width and breadth of their academic catalog, it immediately became her #1, #2, and #3 choice. You talk about the "major" schools at the Legends showcase, did any of them offer your player? No. But they did make offers to many other players in attendance. (Jan 21st and 22nd) You talk about being disingenuous yet you don't tell the whole story. Is that complete enough for you? And anyway, you know I'm just joshing around with you. I like your spunk kiddo.





NoGoal said:


> Stop pivoting and answer why you posted she didn't use CaptainU.  When in fact your family did!


And to help those of you that are just starting to go thru the recruiting process, there is a difference between paying for/"using" a service vs. signing up for a free online profile. Let me make myself clear, I highly encourage players to sign up for free profiles that can increase their exposure for free. And if signing up, paying for, and using a paid service is a good fit, then I'm sure it can be helpful as well, but I do not have any first hand knowledge of these services. LOL!


----------



## NoGoal

Legendsboy, whatever happened to Indiana and Oregon?  Schools you used to hype up!  

Posters never count your chicks before they are hatched!


----------



## madcow

CaliKlines said:


> because most posters don't feel the incessant need to keep repeating their player's accolades over and over.


Really? Ok, Former ECNL captain, Legends homer, USYSA National Champion, SCDSL Champions League Champion and future NC State soccer dad. Riiight, you don't post that over and over again...
hypocrite.


----------



## Zerodenero

madcow said:


> Really? Ok, Former ECNL captain, Legends homer, USYSA National Champion, SCDSL Champions League Champion and future NC State soccer dad. Riiight, you don't post that over and over again...
> hypocrite.









Nailed it.


----------



## NoGoal

madcow said:


> Really? Ok, Former ECNL captain, Legends homer, USYSA National Champion, SCDSL Champions League Champion and future NC State soccer dad. Riiight, you don't post that over and over again...
> hypocrite.


You forgot HS 2015 Excalibur Champion and Legends is DA.


----------



## gkrent

NoGoal said:


> You forgot HS 2015 Excalibur Champion and Legends is DA.


And winner of SCDSL Champions league Playoff


----------



## NoGoal

I just read an email from LB State that they have 90K applications for incoming 2017 students (freshmen and transfers).  Leverage your kids soccer ability, if good enough.  It's ultra competitive gaining acceptance into a good and affordable university.
http://web.csulb.edu/misc/inside/2016/12/19/campus-tops-90k-in-applications/?utm_source=eblast&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=InsideCSULB&utm_content=storylink&utm_content=Robert&utm_source=VerticalResponse&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Campus Tops 90K In Applications&utm_campaign=Beach Pride - 90k Applications, "Best Value College," Need a Loan?


----------



## MakeAPlay

CaliKlines said:


> And to help those of you that are just starting to go thru the recruiting process, there is a difference between paying for/"using" a service vs. signing up for a free online profile. Let me make myself clear, I highly encourage players to sign up for free profiles that can increase their exposure for free. And if signing up, paying for, and using a paid service is a good fit, then I'm sure it can be helpful as well, but I do not have any first hand knowledge of these services. LOL!


You are wrong on almost every one of your blue responses.  No matter.  Not too concerned with my player.


----------



## Zerodenero

MakeAPlay said:


> Tip #2
> 
> Start the process early.  I recommend that you start the process the fall of her freshman year of high school.  i know that sounds really early especially since they are just starting high school and making decisions that are 5 years away seems too early but it isn't.  Start getting an idea of what type of school she wants to go to.  Does she want to go to a big school or a small one?  Urban, rural or college town setting.  Power 5 conference, mid major or D2/3.  This is where she should start getting a general idea of 20-30 schools that you can start to whittle down.  Also make sure that she remains flexible.  I know plenty of girls that committed to schools that weren't initially on their list but fit their criteria and wanted them for the soccer team.


Bump


----------



## Zerodenero

Flojo said:


> When committing to a school, never commit solely for the soccer program or a coach. It should be obvious, but some people have a soccer mind only. If your kid gets hurt, will the school honor their scholarship? Will your kid be happy off the soccer field? Would they like the school if they weren't playing soccer? Are they committing for the coach alone, knowing that he or she can change schools at any given moment? Just some things we took into account in my DD's process!


Bump (note ASU)


----------



## Zerodenero

mirage said:


> What would you do????
> 
> Many excellent academic institutions (e.g., MIT, CalTech, Johns Hopkins, Claremont, Uof Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, ...) are all D3 - no athletic scholarship.  They all say its needs based but threshold is different for each institution.
> 
> Many almost unheard of institutions (e.g., regional east coast private universities) have D1 programs and offers scholarship but academically meh.
> 
> Some excellent academic institutions require very high scores/grades, in addition to soccer skills and is D1 (e.g., Ivys) but offer no athletic scholarship - only needs based.
> 
> Picking school based on what? College soccer offer? If D1, 2, 3 or NAIA? Life after soccer? Solely on affordability?
> 
> And of course coaches change and injuries happen so what's the plan-B if soccer is shortened unexpectedly?
> 
> What are you, as a parent, willing to live with and for the player, willing to do.
> 
> Unfortunately, there is no simple solution and each kid's situation is unique and has a different outcome.
> 
> The point is, if one buys into potential outcomes before starting the recruiting journey, the likelihood of successful transition to college (with or without soccer) will be greater.


Bump (_cliffnote summary - aim high, start with the end in mind)_


----------



## Juve 50

Zerodenero said:


> Bump (note ASU)


Whats the ASU note for?  Is there nothing else in Tempe to go there for?


----------



## Zerodenero

Juve 50 said:


> Whats the ASU note for?  Is there nothing else in Tempe to go there for?


I am in no way questioning Tempe's think tank that ASU is known for.

Humbly bumping the notion of choosing the school 1st, coaching/program 2nd


----------



## MakeAPlay

Zerodenero said:


> I am in no way questioning Tempe's think tank that ASU is known for.
> 
> Humbly bumping the notion of choosing the school 1st, coaching/program 2nd


As always ZD you take the long view and think of the future.


----------



## Bernie Sanders

MakeAPlay said:


> As always ZD you take the long view and think of the future.


ZD has the world by the balls.
He's a good person, who doesnt have the need to belittle anyone.
If he has, I havent seen it.
The guy has my respect. (whatever that's worth)


----------



## Zerodenero

Shucks gents....both far too kind as I'm Just anotha squirrel in the world trying to getta nut

What I was tryin to convey is as the year goes on, and recruits are determining where they want to allocate 4/5 years of their life after HS. Just a friendly reminder (_not a new concept_) for players/parents to leverage soccer _(or any sport for that matter)_ as much as possible and to follow the school 1st, coaching/soccer 2nd. If ASU or "_you name it state"_is the right school/fit for your kid - great. But if your kid has the ability/opportunity of being recruited, do not underestimate/undervalue the "golden ticket" of being a recruited student athlete......look beyond coach/soccer.....think about maximizing the opportunity now to benefit for the future.


----------



## Overlap

Zerodenero said:


> Shucks gents....both far too kind as I'm Just anotha squirrel in the world trying to getta nut
> 
> What I was tryin to convey is as the year goes on, and recruits are determining where they want to allocate 4/5 years of their life after HS. Just a friendly reminder (_not a new concept_) for players/parents to leverage soccer _(or any sport for that matter)_ as much as possible and to follow the school 1st, coaching/soccer 2nd. If ASU or "_you name it state"_is the right school/fit for your kid - great. But if your kid has the ability/opportunity of being recruited, do not underestimate/undervalue the "golden ticket" of being a recruited student athlete......look beyond coach/soccer.....think about maximizing the opportunity now to benefit for the future.


spot on...and don't forget, it's their journey, not your's (you're just paying the other portion)


----------



## Surfref

HELP!!!

Crap, we have to go through this again.  DD is changing colleges.  One of the 5 California universities that are interested in her want to see a 4-6 minute video of her playing.  I took no videos this fall, so we have to pull the video off the coach's private You Tube.  The other four college coaches saw her play in games.   

Does anyone know a good reliable way to convert You Tube video to an editable format?


----------



## MWN

Surfref said:


> HELP!!!
> 
> Crap, we have to go through this again.  DD is changing colleges.  One of the 5 California universities that are interested in her want to see a 4-6 minute video of her playing.  I took no videos this fall, so we have to pull the video off the coach's private You Tube.  The other four college coaches saw her play in games.
> 
> Does anyone know a good reliable way to convert You Tube video to an editable format?


http://www.clipconverter.cc/


----------



## irvingkau

MakeAPlay said:


> Great advice!  My player will be playing a different position in college than she started off playing in U1o club.  We were always big on her playing every field position.  She switched over to her current position at U14 and although she will play the other position when needed she has never looked back.  Also the position that she played in ODP is different than her college position but the coaches at her top 3 schools all loved the fact that she had at least 3 other positions that she could play at a high level.
> 
> Versatility is highly valued.  I was told by a coach of a top 5 program that he likes to get his best 10 field players on the field and having players that play multiple positions allows that.


Thanks for the insightful tips.  I was casually speaking to another parent from a smaller club who is a few years ahead of us since his daughter is several years older, but he mentioned that the coach you follow matters in college recruiting.  He's obviously much deeper into it at this point, and I was simply intaking info and learning his perspective.  I understand that big name clubs help and sure the coach certainly plays a role, but his pitch was that his coach was a famous ex-US Olympian and that makes a difference despite being from a smaller club, and that legacy/genealogy matters.  Was wondering thoughts on that?  Perhaps the idea is to latch onto someone with a name to present a compelling argument?


----------



## MakeAPlay

irvingkau said:


> Thanks for the insightful tips.  I was casually speaking to another parent from a smaller club who is a few years ahead of us since his daughter is several years older, but he mentioned that the coach you follow matters in college recruiting.  He's obviously much deeper into it at this point, and I was simply intaking info and learning his perspective.  I understand that big name clubs help and sure the coach certainly plays a role, but his pitch was that his coach was a famous ex-US Olympian and that makes a difference despite being from a smaller club, and that legacy/genealogy matters.  Was wondering thoughts on that?  Perhaps the idea is to latch onto someone with a name to present a compelling argument?


It might matter depending upon the coach and the school.  The weird thing about recruiting is that it is a very personal journey and no two players have the same exact situation.  My players situation was not helped along by a coach having a certain connection to a particular school but I do know players that were helped along by a coach's connections.  In my opinion it definitely never hurts.  I will say that legacy helps.  A player that has parents that were athletes are a much lower risk and likely has a much higher ceiling.  Again it all depends upon the player.  Good luck to you and your player and the best bet is always to play good soccer.


----------



## irvingkau

MakeAPlay said:


> It might matter depending upon the coach and the school.  The weird thing about recruiting is that it is a very personal journey and no two players have the same exact situation.  My players situation was not helped along by a coach having a certain connection to a particular school but I do know players that were helped along by a coach's connections.  In my opinion it definitely never hurts.  I will say that legacy helps.  A player that has parents that were athletes are a much lower risk and likely has a much higher ceiling.  Again it all depends upon the player.  Good luck to you and your player and the best bet is always to play good soccer.


Appreciate it!


----------



## MakeAPlay

What are they looking for from field players?

Forwards:

Speed
First Touch
Bslsnce with and without the ball
Ability to receive a ball under pressure and turn away from pressure
Ability to make smart runs
Abiity to hold up play for other players to join in
Shot accuracy
Shot strength
Finishing
Vision (finding open teammates)
Offensive Headers
Defensive tenacity
Workrate
Technical skills

Midfielders:

First Touch
Technical skills
Decision Making (finding the right player to combine with)
Vision (making the pass to put players in dangerous scoring positions)
Ability to play out of pressure
Strength on the ball
Ability to combine with other players
Ability to defend 1v1
Workrate
Fitness


Defenders:

Speed
1v1 defending 
First touch
Ability to play out of pressure without just "booting" it
Decision making
Organizational skills
Vocal
Defensive and Offensive headers
Technical skills
Strength
Leg Strength

Those with college players or committed players please feel free to add.


----------



## LadiesMan217

MakeAPlay said:


> What are they looking for from field players?
> 
> Forwards:
> 
> Speed
> First Touch
> Bslsnce with and without the ball
> Ability to receive a ball under pressure and turn away from pressure
> Ability to make smart runs
> Abiity to hold up play for other players to join in
> Shot accuracy
> Shot strength
> Finishing
> Vision (finding open teammates)
> Offensive Headers
> Defensive tenacity
> Workrate
> Technical skills
> 
> Midfielders:
> 
> First Touch
> Technical skills
> Decision Making (finding the right player to combine with)
> Vision (making the pass to put players in dangerous scoring positions)
> Ability to play out of pressure
> Strength on the ball
> Ability to combine with other players
> Ability to defend 1v1
> Workrate
> Fitness
> 
> 
> Defenders:
> 
> Speed
> 1v1 defending
> First touch
> Ability to play out of pressure without just "booting" it
> Decision making
> Organizational skills
> Vocal
> Defensive and Offensive headers
> Technical skills
> Strength
> Leg Strength
> 
> Those with college players or committed players please feel free to add.


Nice list. I have been hitting my DD (striker) over the head with Defensive Tenacity and she wants no part of it (unless you steal the ball from her then it becomes WWF)


----------



## MakeAPlay

LadiesMan217 said:


> Nice list. I have been hitting my DD (striker) over the head with Defensive Tenacity and she wants no part of it (unless you steal the ball from her then it becomes WWF)


You are right to emphasize it.  A team having forwards that track back can be the difference between a good and a great defensive team.


----------



## Bernie Sanders

MakeAPlay said:


> What are they looking for from field players?
> 
> Forwards:
> 
> Speed
> First Touch
> Bslsnce with and without the ball
> Ability to receive a ball under pressure and turn away from pressure
> Ability to make smart runs
> Abiity to hold up play for other players to join in
> Shot accuracy
> Shot strength
> Finishing
> Vision (finding open teammates)
> Offensive Headers
> Defensive tenacity
> Workrate
> Technical skills
> 
> Midfielders:
> 
> First Touch
> Technical skills
> Decision Making (finding the right player to combine with)
> Vision (making the pass to put players in dangerous scoring positions)
> Ability to play out of pressure
> Strength on the ball
> Ability to combine with other players
> Ability to defend 1v1
> Workrate
> Fitness
> 
> 
> Defenders:
> 
> Speed
> 1v1 defending
> First touch
> Ability to play out of pressure without just "booting" it
> Decision making
> Organizational skills
> Vocal
> Defensive and Offensive headers
> Technical skills
> Strength
> Leg Strength
> 
> Those with college players or committed players please feel free to add.


Soccer IQ.
Its something that is coveted by all coaches.
Understand the game.


----------



## Surfref

LadiesMan217 said:


> Nice list. I have been hitting my DD (striker) over the head with Defensive Tenacity and she wants no part of it (unless you steal the ball from her then it becomes WWF)


My DD is primarily a forward.  Her defensive skills helped her become a starter as a college freshman.  She beat out a junior that would not go on defense if her team lost the ball in their attacking third.  My DD  had the defensive skills to either win the ball back or slow down the other teams attack a good majority of the time.  DD learned to play defense from an ex-Timbers and SD Sockers defender.


----------



## dakotafanning40

MakeAPlay said:


> I figured that I would create a place for parents that have been through the process to share insights and answer questions for parents just starting the process or looking ahead to the start of the process.  With so much misinformation out there I thought that having a thread to sort it out might be useful.



Its really a great which is taken by you

*Cricket Helmets*


----------



## f1nfutbol fan

anyone care to post a sample letter that worked for their kid?

if not, please pm them.

I dont want to have the daughter over or under-welm the coaches with to much/little info.

TIA


----------



## Surfref

f1nfutbol fan said:


> anyone care to post a sample letter that worked for their kid?
> 
> if not, please pm them.
> 
> I dont want to have the daughter over or under-welm the coaches with to much/little info.
> 
> TIA



Nothing fancy or elaborate.  Use email and send it to the head coach and assistant coaches.  A lot of the time the assistant coach is the one that does the leg work.  Make sure you send a link to a short (3-4 minutes) impactful video, Vimeo or You Tube.  I liked Vimeo better than You Tube.  If you do not get a response within two weeks than follow up.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Besides being quick and fast the coaches liked my dd's motor and versatility.

What happens when you lose the ball?  Do you win it back?

Can you do some things physically that most others can't?  Like leaping in the the air over other kids.  or great track speed. or great throw ins.  These can separate you for the pack.


----------



## mirage

f1nfutbol fan said:


> anyone care to post a sample letter that worked for their kid?
> 
> if not, please pm them.
> 
> I dont want to have the daughter over or under-welm the coaches with to much/little info.
> 
> TIA


Just about anything works as long as you write it from the coach's perspective.  Think about this for moment, I know it sounds very rhetorical, but most are so busy writing how great you are, you forget that its about effective communication.

First, assume its read on smartphone screen, not a computer.  This says, short and easy to read sentences with plenty of white space.

What do coaches care about?  Pertinent physical info (DOB, height, weight, dominate foot), GPA and SAT/ACT scores and grad year.  Link to the highlight video.

Game time and location info (and link to the schedule), with your team name, colors and jersey number. 

Signature line with the player name, cell and email, and small avatar photo of the player headshot.

That's about it.  Every time my kid wrote to a coach, he got a response from the coach.  Since our experience is on the boys side, ymmv and maybe its bit different on the girls side.


----------



## f1nfutbol fan

Thanks Mirage & surfref,

Mirage, ^ this was our thinking as well.

outside of a headshot, we nailed your list.


----------



## soccermama213

I agree with poster who stated that they usually extend their offers to sophomores and start allocating out the $$ in that age group. For juniors they have less $$ left. So start early. 

Make sure your child has an idea of what they really want in a school (academics, location etc) No sense wasting time with schools that don't meet those needs. My DD was very specific on things she wanted as far as location.

 Also let your child know that college coaches are watching more than just them scoring or making a great play. In meetings with college coaches my daughter was told that they watched her body language, how she reacted in certain situations, and how she handled disappointment. They know what they are looking for. Also know that a coach may not be there to watch your child, but they may just get noticed while they're watching someone else.


----------



## NoGoal

soccermama213 said:


> I agree with poster who stated that they usually extend their offers to sophomores and start allocating out the $$ in that age group. For juniors they have less $$ left. So start early.
> 
> Make sure your child has an idea of what they really want in a school (academics, location etc) No sense wasting time with schools that don't meet those needs. My DD was very specific on things she wanted as far as location.
> 
> Also let your child know that college coaches are watching more than just them scoring or making a great play. In meetings with college coaches my daughter was told that they watched her body language, how she reacted in certain situations, and how she handled disappointment. They know what they are looking for. Also know that a coach may not be there to watch your child, but they may just get noticed while they're watching someone else.


The college coaches are also looking For two way players.  As in when an offensive player loses the ball, do they try to get it back or just stand afterwards.

They also like players who communicate on the field.


----------



## mirage

soccermama213 said:


> I agree with poster who stated that they usually extend their offers to sophomores and start allocating out the $$ in that age group. For juniors they have less $$ left. So start early....


Maybe, heck probably, true for girls side but definitely not true for boys side.  Junior year is the biggest year and many well into the Senior year.

Just qualifying the statement since there are few of us with boys.....


----------



## Multi Sport

mirage said:


> Maybe, heck probably, true for girls side but definitely not true for boys side.  Junior year is the biggest year and many well into the Senior year.
> 
> Just qualifying the statement since there are few of us with boys.....


I was told once it has to do with boys maturing later then girls.


----------



## soccerobserver

soccermama213 said:


> I agree with poster who stated that they usually extend their offers to sophomores and start allocating out the $$ in that age group. For juniors they have less $$ left. So start early.
> 
> Make sure your child has an idea of what they really want in a school (academics, location etc) No sense wasting time with schools that don't meet those needs. My DD was very specific on things she wanted as far as location.
> 
> Also let your child know that college coaches are watching more than just them scoring or making a great play. In meetings with college coaches my daughter was told that they watched her body language, how she reacted in certain situations, and how she handled disappointment. They know what they are looking for. Also know that a coach may not be there to watch your child, but they may just get noticed while they're watching someone else.


This also does not apply to kid going to D3 colleges. Those offers go out at the end of junior year in high school.


----------



## espola

soccerobserver said:


> This also does not apply to kid going to D3 colleges. Those offers go out at the end of junior year in high school.


I never heard that before.


----------



## soccerobserver

espola said:


> I never heard that before.


Thanks Espola. We just went through it. What have you heard  that is different ? Perhaps I should be more precise. The academically selective D3's wait for the players SAT and ACT scores before they run them past the admissions committee. The grades and scores are submitted in 2H junior year the offers come out after. This was the process for several players on our team in the class of 2017.


----------



## espola

soccerobserver said:


> Thanks Espola. We just went through it. What have you heard  that is different ? Perhaps I should be more precise. The academically selective D3's wait for the players SAT and ACT scores before they run them past the admissions committee. The grades and scores are submitted in 2H junior year the offers come out after. This was the process for several players on our team in the class of 2017.


D3 students I know didn't get accepted until well into their Senior year.  But they weren't aiming for the athletics.


----------



## MakeAPlay

espola said:


> D3 students I know didn't get accepted until well into their Senior year.  But they weren't aiming for the athletics.


Your experience is from the middle ages.  Things have changed since 900 AD.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Have your player pick the school don't let the school pick you.  Lot's of players that transferred take the best offer instead of picking the school first.  Right @CaliKlines?  Or was NC State her first choice?


----------



## soccerobserver

espola said:


> D3 students I know didn't get accepted until well into their Senior year.  But they weren't aiming for the athletics.


Espola, respectfully, you feeling ok? The post is specifically about high school soccer players who are trying to get admission into colleges...for D3 the commitment is made in the summer after junior year and the official acceptance letters come via the early decision letters in December of senior year...


----------



## tugs

Does anyone know the rules regarding coach/scouting contact with prospective candidates at the D3 level?  Heard it is much more lenient but didn't see any guidance regarding text messages, etc...


----------



## soccerobserver

tugs said:


> Does anyone know the rules regarding coach/scouting contact with prospective candidates at the D3 level?  Heard it is much more lenient but didn't see any guidance regarding text messages, etc...


Tugs, I have seen may kids email and text coaches in Sophomore year. For D3, early contact can be a waste of time, however, if the player does not meet the admissions criteria as of the end of junior year.


----------



## Kicknit22

While I am 18 pages late to this thread, I just want to throw this little bit of advise out to the newbies on the recruiting wagon;
Don't rely on any club or coach to get your player recruited.  Don't fall for the line of BS coaches often throw out like "I'll get him/her committed", "I've got connections ".  Just know that your player will get themselves recruited.  It takes effort and desire on thier part.  The team is the vehicle, your player is driving.  So, you might want to do your best to see that he/she is on a team that will get exposure.  College coaches don't really want to go watch a Pinto, when there are so many Maserati out there. JMO.


----------



## espola

soccerobserver said:


> Tugs, I have seen may kids email and text coaches in Sophomore year. For D3, early contact can be a waste of time, however, if the player does not meet the admissions criteria as of the end of junior year.


D3 is a pretty wide spectrum.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

D3 can call or email anytime.  They recruit late and understand they lose out to D1 and some D2.  Coaches don't want to waste time.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

TOP 50 academic D3 offered my dd near end of sop. year and communicated freely.  They showed up and saw her and made contact.   She committed D1 in early fall of her junior year.

My advice:

1) communicate very early (8th grade to 9th grade)

2) play of the best team possible that plays in college showcase (maybe that's GDA now, maybe ECNL).  Coaches will find you if you are good.  

3) Attend a D1 ID camp if the coach personally invites you otherwise you just be contributing to the asst coaches' salary.
OR attend if you want to see what the coaches are like

4) ask the coach how many kids he/she is taking and at what positions and ask where you stand on the recruiting depth chart.

5)  choose the best FIT = academics first then soccer.


----------



## chargerfan

eastbaysoccer said:


> TOP 50 academic D3 offered my dd near end of sop. year and communicated freely.  They showed up and saw her and made contact.   She committed D1 in early fall of her junior year.
> 
> My advice:
> 
> 1) communicate very early (8th grade to 9th grade)
> 
> 2) play of the best team possible that plays in college showcase (maybe that's GDA now, maybe ECNL).  Coaches will find you if you are good.
> 
> 3) Attend a D1 ID camp if the coach personally invites you otherwise you just be contributing to the asst coaches' salary.
> OR attend if you want to see what the coaches are like
> 
> 4) ask the coach how many kids he/she is taking and at what positions and ask where you stand on the recruiting depth chart.
> 
> 5)  choose the best FIT = academics first then soccer.



8th grade??

How does one get invited to an ID camp? 

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## LadiesMan217

chargerfan said:


> 8th grade??
> 
> How does one get invited to an ID camp?
> 
> Thanks for sharing.


Play ECNL or for next year play DA. If you played ECNL this year you most likely received 100+ ID camp invitations by college coaches. When they come in, delete them.


----------



## chargerfan

LadiesMan217 said:


> Play ECNL or for next year play DA. If you played ECNL this year you most likely received 100+ ID camp invitations by college coaches. When they come in, delete them.


We were not at ecnl age last year. Why delete them? Are the id camps pointless?


----------



## soccerobserver

eastbaysoccer said:


> TOP 50 academic D3 offered my dd near end of sop. year and communicated freely.  They showed up and saw her and made contact.   She committed D1 in early fall of her junior year.
> 
> My advice:
> 
> 1) communicate very early (8th grade to 9th grade)
> 
> 2) play of the best team possible that plays in college showcase (maybe that's GDA now, maybe ECNL).  Coaches will find you if you are good.
> 
> 3) Attend a D1 ID camp if the coach personally invites you otherwise you just be contributing to the asst coaches' salary.
> OR attend if you want to see what the coaches are like
> 
> 4) ask the coach how many kids he/she is taking and at what positions and ask where you stand on the recruiting depth chart.
> 
> 5)  choose the best FIT = academics first then soccer.


EastBay, for the top D3's 8th grade is too early for the coach but might help the player narrow down schools and campuses they want to focus on. Kids have plenty of time for those schools and Sophomore year is a good time to start but early Junior year is not too late.

Also, ECNL and DA are not needed for top academic D3's. I would actually argue they are overkill for that level of soccer. Coaches can see the recruits play in many venues and especially want to see them at their own ID camps/clinics more so than any showcase.

We had 10 players collect over 30 0ffers. We did  not play in ECNL and heck we were only in CSL Premier for one season. Our kids played and enjoyed Nomads three times, Vegas three times  and went to specific, small college ID camps. Some of our players guested in Surf, Davis and Jefferson Cup. That was fun too.


----------



## chargerfan

soccerobserver said:


> EastBay, for the top D3's 8th grade is too early for the coach but might help the player narrow down schools and campuses they want to focus on. Kids have plenty of time for those schools and Sophomore year is a good time to start but early Junior year is not too late.
> 
> Also, ECNL and DA are not needed for top academic D3's. I would actually argue they are overkill for that level of soccer. Coaches can see the recruits play in many venues and especially want to see them at their own ID camps/clinics more so than any showcase.
> 
> We had 10 players collect over 30 0ffers. We did  not play in ECNL and heck we were only in CSL Premier for one season. Our kids played and enjoyed Nomads three times, Vegas three times  and went to specific, small college ID camps. Some of our players guested in Surf, Davis and Jefferson Cup. That was fun too.


This is useful. I am much more concerned with the academic side than whether it is D1,D2 or D3. They should be in school for the education not the soccer.


----------



## soccerobserver

chargerfan said:


> This is useful. I am much more concerned with the academic side than whether it is D1,D2 or D3. They should be in school for the education not the soccer.


Thanks ChargerFan You make a good point and I agree but I also think each family may feel different about how to balance the two. I think every kid has their own journey.

My main point is that the path and timing for D3 is very different than for D1. No need to panic if kid is focused on academic D3 schools and kid is a sophomore or junior in HS and not playing ecnl or da.


----------



## chargerfan

soccerobserver said:


> Thanks ChargerFan You make a good point and I agree but I also think each family may feel different about how to balance the two. I think every kid has their own journey.
> 
> My main point is that the path and timing for D3 is very different than for D1. No need to panic if kid is focused on academic D3 schools and kid is a sophomore or junior in HS and not playing ecnl or da.


We are a couple of years away but I am glad to be getting all of this insight now instead of later. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Plenty of time for D3 programs.  They understand D1 goes first and they let the craziness clear before they invest time in their recruiting process.

AT the current accelerated rate D1 is done as early as the sophomore year up to the summer before their senior year.  Obviously the top programs can fill up faster and it would not surprise me if places like Stanford will be done at the end of the freshman year in the years to come.  And Texas will likely be giving offers at age 10 soon!!!!  

I'm not a fan of committing early but it is what it is.  There's a lot of mental growth that needs to take place before those kinds of decisions are made.


----------



## Justafan

eastbaysoccer said:


> Plenty of time for D3 programs.  They understand D1 goes first and they let the craziness clear before they invest time in their recruiting process.
> 
> AT the current accelerated rate D1 is done as early as the sophomore year up to the summer before their senior year.  Obviously the top programs can fill up faster and it would not surprise me if places like Stanford will be done at the end of the freshman year in the years to come.  And Texas will likely be giving offers at age 10 soon!!!!
> 
> I'm not a fan of committing early but it is what it is.  There's a lot of mental growth that needs to take place before those kinds of decisions are made.


Each school can have their own plan, but the real question is, especially for those top schools recruiting early, what is their hit to miss ratio.  If they are hitting at a high rate, then their formula works, if not then they have a problem.  

However, since the same powerhouses have top teams year in and year out, it looks like they hit more than they miss.  Also, if they were routinely missing out on late bloomers, wouldn't you see stud players popping up from non traditional powerhouses more often?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Justafan said:


> Each school can have their own plan, but the real question is, especially for those top schools recruiting early, what is their hit to miss ratio.  If they are hitting at a high rate, then their formula works, if not then they have a problem.
> 
> However, since the same powerhouses have top teams year in and year out, it looks like they hit more than they miss.  Also, if they were routinely missing out on late bloomers, wouldn't you see stud players popping up from non traditional powerhouses more often?


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and sometimes players just fly below the radar.  Now I am by no way insinuating that it happens all the time but every year players pop up that nobody has heard of and the make waves nationally.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

I think when you have 36 on your roster you just have to be right 50% of the time. 
IMO the if the recruiting is good then top programs should always be on top ( i.e.  Stanford, Florida state,  UNC, etc).

Then you have Cal Poly.  Great school that underachieves IMO.  Clearly their recruiting if below average  and they miss more than they hit.  .


----------



## eastbaysoccer

MakeAPlay said:


> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and sometimes players just fly below the radar.  Now I am by no way insinuating that it happens all the time but every year players pop up that nobody has heard of and the make waves nationally.


There are players that always develop late.  And even those that decline.


----------



## Multi Sport

chargerfan said:


> We are a couple of years away but I am glad to be getting all of this insight now instead of later. Thanks for sharing.


Don't forget about NAIA. A lot of good schools to choose from.


----------



## MakeAPlay

RiverRat said:


> have to agree with cali...my daughter went with 2 teammates last year and i saw backpacks from a bunch of other clubs. btw, my kid isn't a poser, and it's kinda disrespectful for you to say that. she was nervous last year, but is going back with more confidence this time.


Your kid sure sounds like a poser.


----------



## soccerobserver

eastbaysoccer said:


> Plenty of time for D3 programs.  They understand D1 goes first and they let the craziness clear before they invest time in their recruiting process.
> 
> AT the current accelerated rate D1 is done as early as the sophomore year up to the summer before their senior year.  Obviously the top programs can fill up faster and it would not surprise me if places like Stanford will be done at the end of the freshman year in the years to come.  And Texas will likely be giving offers at age 10 soon!!!!
> 
> I'm not a fan of committing early but it is what it is.  There's a lot of mental growth that needs to take place before those kinds of decisions are made.


EastBayS I hear you but  I am not sure about D3 waiting for D1's to do anything. The D3's cannot offer athletic scholarships and I believe the regulations for recruiting are different from D1. Also,  D3's do not offer athletic money. They really have to wait for grades and scores to justify acceptance to the admissions committee.

Regarding D1 timing, we had a really nice story with one of our players.  She had a dream of playing D1 --almost anywhere. She joined our club for our last season and was waaaaaay behind in the recruiting process. She was zeroed in on by a D1 college in Las Vegas in March 2017 of her senior year.  After Vegas she was given practically a full ride to a good D1 school and is training there this summer. It was her dream come true. This tells me that even if a kid is late in the process it can still happen but you may have to be open minded on location etc.  She was too late to be considered by the tippy-top D1 teams but she got into a solid school with great resources nevertheless. There is no way she would have discovered this university had it not been for soccer.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Nice story on the late D1 commit.  What school may I ask?


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Never too late for D1 as rising senior but the window is closing really fast and the athletic money just about dry.   

You'll get the occasional couldn't hit the act/sat score situation or transfer,   but that's  far and few between.  Women's soccer recruiting is crazy.  mark my word Texas will be the first to offer a 7th grader if she's not fired by then.


----------



## PLSAP

soccerobserver said:


> EastBayS I hear you but  I am not sure about D3 waiting for D1's to do anything. The D3's cannot offer athletic scholarships and I believe the regulations for recruiting are different from D1. Also,  D3's do not offer athletic money. They really have to wait for grades and scores to justify acceptance to the admissions committee.
> 
> Regarding D1 timing, we had a really nice story with one of our players.  She had a dream of playing D1 --almost anywhere. She joined our club for our last season and was waaaaaay behind in the recruiting process. She was zeroed in on by a D1 college in Las Vegas in March 2017 of her senior year.  After Vegas she was given practically a full ride to a good D1 school and is training there this summer. It was her dream come true. This tells me that even if a kid is late in the process it can still happen but you may have to be open minded on location etc.  She was too late to be considered by the tippy-top D1 teams but she got into a solid school with great resources nevertheless. There is no way she would have discovered this university had it not been for soccer.


I recently read the story on the SD Surf website about the girl who came back after tearing her ACL I believe soph. year and coming back to tear the other one junior year. Even though she missed out on big recruiting time, she ended up committed to USC senior year.


----------



## NoGoal

PLSAP said:


> I recently read the story on the SD Surf website about the girl who came back after tearing her ACL I believe soph. year and coming back to tear the other one junior year. Even though she missed out on big recruiting time, she ended up committed to USC senior year.


I'm wondering if you are posting about Madcow's DD who was a frequent poster on the forum.  His DD tore her ACL twice and committed her Sr year to USD.


----------



## MakeAPlay

NoGoal said:


> I'm wondering if you are posting about Madcow's DD who was a frequent poster on the forum.  His DD tore her ACL twice and committed her Sr year to USD.


She is absolutely the sweetest kid.  She is a baller.  Before she got hurt she was on a great developmental arc.  The new USD coach is awesome and she will do well playing for her.


----------



## PLSAP

NoGoal said:


> I'm wondering if you are posting about Madcow's DD who was a frequent poster on the forum.  His DD tore her ACL twice and committed her Sr year to USD.


Maybe... I read it a while ago and probably got some facts messed up.


----------



## soccerobserver

eastbaysoccer said:


> Nice story on the late D1 commit.  What school may I ask?


Thanks EastBayS...she is a great person, very nice and humble kid as well...she committed to a University in Conference USA...http://www.conferenceusa.com/standings.aspx?path=wsoc

People who know me on here can figure it out but I don't think its my place to get too specific.


----------



## soccerobserver

For anyone who saw "Get Out" this football recruit made a creative commit video spoof of Get Out...


----------



## tugs

PLSAP said:


> I recently read the story on the SD Surf website about the girl who came back after tearing her ACL I believe soph. year and coming back to tear the other one junior year. Even though she missed out on big recruiting time, she ended up committed to USC senior year.



I know of whom you speak.  She was  in close contact with USC for years and they loved her so much they accepted her more as a trainer and role model for other players than how many minutes she would be getting on the field due to her injuries.  Good story.


----------



## MakeAPlay

tugs said:


> I know of whom you speak.  She was  in close contact with USC for years and they loved her so much they accepted her more as a trainer and role model for other players than how many minutes she would be getting on the field due to her injuries.  Good story.


http://goalnation.com/sd-surf-soccer-player-overcomes-inuries/


----------



## MakeAPlay

It is crazy how many committed high school freshman there are.  These kids haven't completed one semester of high school work yet are committing to a college that is 4 years down the line!  No wonder why these offenders for the most part aren't contenders.  It's hard to judge a teenager's developmental arc 2 years out let alone 4 years out!


----------



## Sheriff Joe

MakeAPlay said:


> It is crazy how many committed high school freshman there are.  These kids haven't completed one semester of high school work yet are committing to a college that is 4 years down the line!  No wonder why these offenders for the most part aren't contenders.  It's hard to judge a teenager's developmental arc 2 years out let alone 4 years out!


What year did your daughter commit?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Sheriff Joe said:


> What year did your daughter commit?


February of her sophomore year.  At that point she already had 12 college credits and had visited all 3 of the schools that she considered and she had gone to two camps with the school that she committed to.  This wasn't some random decision.  My player picked the school the school didn't pick her...


----------



## MakeAPlay

All I am saying is the transfer rate is so high among women's soccer players.  Part of it is picking a school simply for soccer reasons.  Part of it is not thoroughly vetting the coach or the player's potential fit with the team.  Part of it is picking a school when you are 13-15 years old.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

MakeAPlay said:


> February of her sophomore year.  At that point she already had 12 college credits and had visited all 3 of the schools that she considered and she had gone to two camps with the school that she committed to.  This wasn't some random decision.  My player picked the school the school didn't pick her...


Nice, but many in here won't have that "problem".
Good info for my current freshman.


----------



## Striker17

Agree totally not a problem most of us will have. That being said my good friends did it because it's "leverage" for other schools. They have no intention of going which was crazy to me.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Striker17 said:


> Agree totally not a problem most of us will have. That being said my good friends did it because it's "leverage" for other schools. They have no intention of going which was crazy to me.


All that I can say is wow.  Coaches talk and this may backfire...


----------



## Striker17

I am glad you said that because it made sense to me as well to have that impression. I didn't pursue the line of questioning because admittedly my player isn't not in the same boat so I don't understand the nuances. Elite of the elite kind of have their own rules anyway  and I am ok with it!


----------



## Striker17

MakeAPlay said:


> All I am saying is the transfer rate is so high among women's soccer players.  Part of it is picking a school simply for soccer reasons.  Part of it is not thoroughly vetting the coach or the player's potential fit with the team.  Part of it is picking a school when you are 13-15 years old.


Wishing NCAA Would act but don't believe they will. There was talk in April but I have not heard any since so I don't think they will raise the recruitment age to Junior as other sports have done.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Striker17 said:


> I am glad you said that because it made sense to me as well to have that impression. I didn't pursue the line of questioning because admittedly my player isn't not in the same boat so I don't understand the nuances. Elite of the elite kind of have their own rules anyway  and I am ok with it!


Offers get pulled when coaches realize what is going on.  Look at it this way.  If you were a coach would you want a player in your program that is unethical?  Team chemistry and culture are probably more important than individual talent in an athletic environment (and why I think my player's coach is so good).  The most talented player in the NCAA on the women's side has equally high character and so do her parents.  Bad chemistry can doom even an extremely talented side.  I can name 3 California schools that this elite player will not be going to.  They don't play that game and all of those coaches talk.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Striker17 said:


> Wishing NCAA Would act but don't believe they will. There was talk in April but I have not heard any since so I don't think they will raise the recruitment age to Junior as other sports have done.


The NCAA will not act.  The only reason they made their recent rules changes regarding the true cost of attending college and schools being allowed to provide additional stipends for their athletes is because the Power 5 conferences threatened to pull out of the NCAA and form their own organization (does this seem familiar?) if they didn't make the concession.  The only reason that the NCAA has any power is because the Power 5 conferences give it power.


----------



## Justafan

MakeAPlay said:


> It is crazy how many committed high school freshman there are.  These kids haven't completed one semester of high school work yet are committing to a college that is 4 years down the line!  No wonder why these offenders for the most part aren't contenders.  It's hard to judge a teenager's developmental arc 2 years out let alone 4 years out!


But how common is it for coaches to pull offers because the player did not develop as expected or because they found somebody better? It happens in college football all the time.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Justafan said:


> But how common is it for coaches to pull offers because the player did not develop as expected or because they found somebody better? It happens in college football all the time.


I'm not sure how often it happens in football but that is a completely different animal.  With girls soccer I have only heard of it happening once and that was due to the player's "shopping for a better deal" activities.  I have never heard of an offer being pulled in any other circumstance.


----------



## Justafan

MakeAPlay said:


> I'm not sure how often it happens in football but that is a completely different animal.  With girls soccer I have only heard of it happening once and that was due to the player's "shopping for a better deal" activities.  I have never heard of an offer being pulled in any other circumstance.


So if a player doesn't turn out to be what they thought (i.e. by their jr. or sr. yr in HS) do they just eat it and chalk it up as a lost scholarship?


----------



## Sheriff Joe

MakeAPlay said:


> I'm not sure how often it happens in football but that is a completely different animal.  With girls soccer I have only heard of it happening once and that was due to the player's "shopping for a better deal" activities.  I have never heard of an offer being pulled in any other circumstance.


How about when a coach leaves after recruiting a player? I have heard that happens.


----------



## CaliKlines

Justafan said:


> But how common is it for coaches to pull offers because the player did not develop as expected or because they found somebody better? It happens in college football all the time.


I think it is a very rare occurrence, but I know of a goalie from a San Diego club that committed during her sophomore year of high school to a large Div 1 school in the middle of the country (Big12). Her offer was pulled during the summer before her senior year due to an injured redshirt that recovered sooner than expected and came back to the school instead of transferring. Unfortunately, it put the keeper back to square one at the start of her senior year of high school to find a program that was a good fit for her. I felt very sorry for the kid because it seemed as if it was out of her control. This is the only instance that I have heard of a retracted offer.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Sheriff Joe said:


> How about when a coach leaves after recruiting a player? I have heard that happens.


That happens multiple times every year.  That is why I recommend picking the school not the coach.  

It's business for the coaches.  Unless they are at their dream job and are getting paid really well for it then if a better opportunity comes knocking they are gone.


----------



## outside!

So college coaches talk and find out about players that do not honor verbal commitments. How does the general public find out about coaches that do not honor their verbal commitments, particularly if they are not local? In other words, someone should post names.


----------



## soccerobserver

MakeAPlay said:


> Offers get pulled when coaches realize what is going on.  Look at it this way.  If you were a coach would you want a player in your program that is unethical?  Team chemistry and culture are probably more important than individual talent in an athletic environment (and why I think my player's coach is so good).  The most talented player in the NCAA on the women's side has equally high character and so do her parents.  Bad chemistry can doom even an extremely talented side.  I can name 3 California schools that this elite player will not be going to.  They don't play that game and all of those coaches talk.


Building on MAP's point I was told that men's soccer coaches don't talk so much but in contrast Coaches in womens soccer talk and share information about recruits.


----------



## Lion Eyes

Keep in mind the player signs their name to the scholarship offer every year...it's not a four year  contract.
Scholarships can be and are modified depending on grades, playing time, ability, eligibility, etc.
I've known walk on players that have worked their way into scholarships and I've known scholarship players who have gone the other direction.
Also, coaches that offer one thing and then change for no reason would not last long...and verbal commitments are just verbal commitments, 'till the ink dries.


----------



## sandshark

Funny because as we have had several conversations with college recruiters and college coaches and they almost all seem to have a negative undertone in conversation about the Clubs push to over play and over extend players and their families. Also several seem to be unhappy with the club coaches making promises they have no control over. I was very surprised to get the point of view some of the college coaches are starting to form about youth Club soccer and where it seems to be heading.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Lion Eyes said:


> Keep in mind the player signs their name to the scholarship offer every year...it's not a four year  contract.
> Scholarships can be and are modified depending on grades, playing time, ability, eligibility, etc.
> I've known walk on players that have worked their way into scholarships and I've known scholarship players who have gone the other direction.
> Also, coaches that offer one thing and then change for no reason would not last long...and verbal commitments are just verbal commitments, 'till the ink dries.


The PAC 12 and Big Ten guarantee all sports scholarships for 4 years starting with the high school class of 2016.


----------



## The Driver

MakeAPlay said:


> The PAC 12 and Big Ten guarantee all sports scholarships for 4 years starting with the high school class of 2016.


All sports or just soccer?


----------



## MakeAPlay

The Driver said:


> All sports or just soccer?


All sports.  I would imagine that the rest of the Power 5 conferences will follow suit soon.


----------



## Lion Eyes

MakeAPlay said:


> The PAC 12 and Big Ten guarantee all sports scholarships for 4 years starting with the high school class of 2016.


Which makes the offer of that scholarship more meaningful....
I'm sure their are stipulations and certain standards that must be met by the athlete.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Lion Eyes said:


> Which makes the offer of that scholarship more meaningful....
> I'm sure their are stipulations and certain standards that must be met by the athlete.


They must have passing grades.  If there is some sort of illegal activity I would imagine there is a clause allowing them to revoke it but on my player's grant in aid package I saw no such stipulations.


----------



## Ricky Fandango

MakeAPlay said:


> They must have passing grades.  If there is some sort of illegal activity I would imagine there is a clause allowing them to revoke it but on my player's grant in aid package I saw no such stipulations.


If a coach tells you face to face what the deal is, and that coach fails to follow through, that coach is walking on thin ice.
Word gets out quick, especially today with forums such as this.


----------



## Lion Eyes

MakeAPlay said:


> They must have passing grades.  If there is some sort of illegal activity I would imagine there is a clause allowing them to revoke it but on my player's grant in aid package I saw no such stipulations.


I went to college back when they had leather helmets. I was recruited and attended through a grant in aid "scholarship".
The grant in aid package had nothing to do if I played football or not...it was set up through the school financial aid office.
Soccer teams only have 14 scholarships, thankfully our ladies are smart and they can receive academic scholarship, grants in aid, etc.
If the school wants your player, they will come up with means to make it happen...


----------



## MakeAPlay

Lion Eyes said:


> I went to college back when they had leather helmets. I was recruited and attended through a grant in aid "scholarship".
> The grant in aid package had nothing to do if I played football or not...it was set up through the school financial aid office.
> Soccer teams only have 14 scholarships, thankfully our ladies are smart and they can receive academic scholarship, grants in aid, etc.
> If the school wants your player, they will come up with means to make it happen...


I'm just using the verbiage on the paperwork.  They even use docusign now.


----------



## MakeAPlay

I'm tripping out on how many freshmen are committed right now.


----------



## sandshark

MakeAPlay said:


> I'm tripping out on how many freshmen are committed right now.


FAKE NEWS! 
First of all NON of them are anything more than a verbal "OK" as a Freshman. And secondly the word "committed" is thrown around so loosely its crazy! The huge majority are not getting enough to pay for their gas to and from! Its a sham, if you truly look into the actual amount being offered to Women's soccer it is sad. Make sure you are doing club soccer for one reason and one reason only..the FUN of it, NOT the future of some great full ride scholarship in college. YES some do get that, but the time and money invested into club Soccer is not even close worth the investment if you think your getting a payback in college. Clubs blow this crap out of the world and ego maniac parents like to exaggerate what their kids are actually getting.


----------



## GKDad65

sandshark said:


> FAKE NEWS!
> First of all NON of them are anything more than a verbal "OK" as a Freshman. And secondly the word "committed" is thrown around so loosely its crazy! The huge majority are not getting enough to pay for their gas to and from! Its a sham, if you truly look into the actual amount being offered to Women's soccer it is sad. Make sure you are doing club soccer for one reason and one reason only..the FUN of it, NOT the future of some great full ride scholarship in college. YES some do get that, but the time and money invested into club Soccer is not even close worth the investment if you think your getting a payback in college. Clubs blow this crap out of the world and ego maniac parents like to exaggerate what their kids are actually getting.


"Committed" as a Freshman or Sophomore is complete nonsense.  It's a marketing ploy the clubs love to use and we eat-it-up as fast as we can.


----------



## MakeAPlay

sandshark said:


> FAKE NEWS!
> First of all NON of them are anything more than a verbal "OK" as a Freshman. And secondly the word "committed" is thrown around so loosely its crazy! The huge majority are not getting enough to pay for their gas to and from! Its a sham, if you truly look into the actual amount being offered to Women's soccer it is sad. Make sure you are doing club soccer for one reason and one reason only..the FUN of it, NOT the future of some great full ride scholarship in college. YES some do get that, but the time and money invested into club Soccer is not even close worth the investment if you think your getting a payback in college. Clubs blow this crap out of the world and ego maniac parents like to exaggerate what their kids are actually getting.


Okay if you think so.  I know that the $30k that I spent is much less than my player is getting so preach what you want to but the truth is very different.  If I was you I would wait until I got a Uolder player that has been through the recruiting process before I made a negative OR a positive comment. 

You are clearly no in the know based upon your post and plenty of parents with players know this.  A 50% scholarship at pretty much any private university in America will cover what a SMART soccer parent will spend on club soccer.  Now if  you need to travel everywhere with your little Mia (or Mallory) then that number might be different...


----------



## MakeAPlay

GKDad65 said:


> "Committed" as a Freshman or Sophomore is complete nonsense.  It's a marketing ploy the clubs love to use and we eat-it-up as fast as we can.


My player was committed as a sophomore as was most of her recruiting class...  No marketing here.


----------



## MakeAPlay

@GKDad65 and @sandshark are your players freshmen in high school?  Are they YNT players?  Are they regional or national ODP players?  Where they invited to the Puma showcase?  If not I am fairly certain that you are not qualified to legitimately comment.

You can ask all of the medical questions you want to an engineer the answers won't be correct though...


----------



## Lion Eyes

MakeAPlay said:


> My player was committed as a sophomore as was most of her recruiting class...  No marketing here.


Mine had also committed in September of her sophomore year...


----------



## pooka

What is the Puma showcase? Is that still a thing? I recently saw some Adidas event in Oregon, but an entire team went to it, so I wasn't sure if it was invite only. 
I agree that SOME kids aren't getting any real money, but that seems to be because they are shooting for schools that aren't their true "level". For instance I know of a girl that really wanted to go to UNC... so she went, and maybe got preferred walk on status? Her parents called it committed, but she didn't get any actual money. However, if she had went to the D2 that offered her a scholarship, she would have had a lot more money. 

As a U15 parent, I'm currently spending about 3k a year in club/ECNL fees (that includes her travel). I pay another 4k a year when we travel as a family to surf cup and national events. so 7k a year? so lets say I spend 28k over the course of 4 years...Lets say that LMU is on her list of schools that she loves (great film school!) LMU is 60K per year with room and board. If she could get 50% of that paid... and then another 25 or 30% in academic money, thats not horrible, and she has used soccer as a way to chase her dream career.

I don't think any of us U15 and under parents have a set plan right now because things keep changing.


----------



## MakeAPlay

pooka said:


> What is the Puma showcase? Is that still a thing? I recently saw some Adidas event in Oregon, but an entire team went to it, so I wasn't sure if it was invite only.
> I agree that SOME kids aren't getting any real money, but that seems to be because they are shooting for schools that aren't their true "level". For instance I know of a girl that really wanted to go to UNC... so she went, and maybe got preferred walk on status? Her parents called it committed, but she didn't get any actual money. However, if she had went to the D2 that offered her a scholarship, she would have had a lot more money.
> 
> As a U15 parent, I'm currently spending about 3k a year in club/ECNL fees (that includes her travel). I pay another 4k a year when we travel as a family to surf cup and national events. so 7k a year? so lets say I spend 28k over the course of 4 years...Lets say that LMU is on her list of schools that she loves (great film school!) LMU is 60K per year with room and board. If she could get 50% of that paid... and then another 25 or 30% in academic money, thats not horrible, and she has used soccer as a way to chase her dream career.
> 
> I don't think any of us U15 and under parents have a set plan right now because things keep changing.


@pooka your post is spot on.  Plenty of "committed" players that get no money.  Mostly from shooting for a school that may not be a good "soccer fit."  Both things are important (school and soccer) and determine if a kid stays for 4 years or transfers.


----------



## Multi Sport

sandshark said:


> FAKE NEWS!
> First of all NON of them are anything more than a verbal "OK" as a Freshman. And secondly the word "committed" is thrown around so loosely its crazy! The huge majority are not getting enough to pay for their gas to and from! Its a sham, if you truly look into the actual amount being offered to Women's soccer it is sad. Make sure you are doing club soccer for one reason and one reason only..the FUN of it, NOT the future of some great full ride scholarship in college. YES some do get that, but the time and money invested into club Soccer is not even close worth the investment if you think your getting a payback in college. Clubs blow this crap out of the world and ego maniac parents like to exaggerate what their kids are actually getting.


My DD is in her Jr. year at a NAIA school. She received both an Academic and Athletic scholarship and I can say without a doubt that the cost that we paid for Club Soccer could have been tripled and it still would not have totalled the amount of her scholarships.


----------



## MakeAPlay

http://www.girlssoccernetwork.com/conquer/experts/girls-dream-college-soccer/

Good luck to all!!


----------



## gkrent

sandshark said:


> FAKE NEWS!
> First of all NON of them are anything more than a verbal "OK" as a Freshman. And secondly the word "committed" is thrown around so loosely its crazy! The huge majority are not getting enough to pay for their gas to and from! Its a sham, if you truly look into the actual amount being offered to Women's soccer it is sad. Make sure you are doing club soccer for one reason and one reason only..the FUN of it, NOT the future of some great full ride scholarship in college. YES some do get that, but the time and money invested into club Soccer is not even close worth the investment if you think your getting a payback in college. Clubs blow this crap out of the world and ego maniac parents like to exaggerate what their kids are actually getting.


Mine committed as a sophomore and I'm getting a very very good ROI


----------



## sandshark

MakeAPlay said:


> Okay if you think so.  I know that the $30k that I spent is much less than my player is getting so preach what you want to but the truth is very different.  If I was you I would wait until I got a Uolder player that has been through the recruiting process before I made a negative OR a positive comment.
> 
> You are clearly no in the know based upon your post and plenty of parents with players know this.  A 50% scholarship at pretty much any private university in America will cover what a SMART soccer parent will spend on club soccer.  Now if  you need to travel everywhere with your little Mia (or Mallory) then that number might be different...


First of all where and how in 10-14 years of youth soccer did you get away with only spending $30,000? We have spent (U-Olders)  $8500.00 - $10,000 PLUS in one year on one kid flying and driving around the US playing soccer! You are crazy as it gets thinking you got away with $30,000 in a kids complete run of youth soccer! (notice i did not use the word career) 
I have no idea where your player plays or what level they play (and I don't care) but your are totally out of touch with U-15 up top level youth soccer. 
Just sign up fee's alone are way over $2000.00, one out of town 4 day trip with plane, travel, hotel, coach fee's and misc is minimum of $1700.00 per player!  Keep in mind if you have a U-older player and they play at the top level they will try and scam you for 3-plus out of state tournaments  "showcases" and almost weekly games out of town, plus 4 days per week training sessions and all the misc BS. Oh and don't forget out of state college tours!   
So.. don't talk to me about my knowledge on what it cost.  You never know who is on the other side of these conversations when using the computer for info.


----------



## MakeAPlay

sandshark said:


> First of all where and how in 10-14 years of youth soccer did you get away with only spending $30,000? We have spent (U-Olders)  $8500.00 - $10,000 PLUS in one year on one kid flying and driving around the US playing soccer! You are crazy as it gets thinking you got away with $30,000 in a kids complete run of youth soccer! (notice i did not use the word career)
> I have no idea where your player plays or what level they play (and I don't care) but your are totally out of touch with U-15 up top level youth soccer.
> Just sign up fee's alone are way over $2000.00, one out of town 4 day trip with plane, travel, hotel, coach fee's and misc is minimum of $1700.00 per player!  Keep in mind if you have a U-older player and they play at the top level they will try and scam you for 3-plus out of state tournaments  "showcases" and almost weekly games out of town, plus 4 days per week training sessions and all the misc BS. Oh and don't forget out of state college tours!
> So.. don't talk to me about my knowledge on what it cost.  You never know who is on the other side of these conversations when using the computer for info.


If you spent that much it sounds by your tone that you are spending too much for what you are getting.  I don't care if you believe me I know what I spent and for U10-U18 on an ECNL team that went to PDA showcase, Phoenix showcase and the ECNL championships every year.  Not to mention ODP regionals and nationals.  I spent under $31,000 (I kept careful track of it so again I don't give a $hit what you believe).  Oh and my player plays on a top 10 D1 team and got more than a 75% scholarship.  Oh and she is the best in the country under the age of 24 at her position.  

I probably got a better deal on a lot of things compared to you.  Don't be mad be a better consumer.


----------



## MakeAPlay

sandshark said:


> First of all where and how in 10-14 years of youth soccer did you get away with only spending $30,000? We have spent (U-Olders)  $8500.00 - $10,000 PLUS in one year on one kid flying and driving around the US playing soccer! You are crazy as it gets thinking you got away with $30,000 in a kids complete run of youth soccer! (notice i did not use the word career)
> I have no idea where your player plays or what level they play (and I don't care) but your are totally out of touch with U-15 up top level youth soccer.
> Just sign up fee's alone are way over $2000.00, one out of town 4 day trip with plane, travel, hotel, coach fee's and misc is minimum of $1700.00 per player!  Keep in mind if you have a U-older player and they play at the top level they will try and scam you for 3-plus out of state tournaments  "showcases" and almost weekly games out of town, plus 4 days per week training sessions and all the misc BS. Oh and don't forget out of state college tours!
> So.. don't talk to me about my knowledge on what it cost.  You never know who is on the other side of these conversations when using the computer for info.


The only colleges that my player visited were in the state of California.  They also did the Vegas showcase all but her U18 year.  Also her last year I didn't pay anything.  It was valuable enough having my player show up.  Don't believe me if you want but don't be a hater.


----------



## sandshark

Truth is we have NEVER in all the years of my DD playing had to pay full or even sometime any sign up fee's, but yes we did have to pay all our own travel and personal expense. My "tone" is based on watching others fall for the youth soccer scam, we don't fall for anything, we know exactly what we are getting and we base the worth a lot different than most.  
 And YES you are correct I do not for a single second believe you only paid $30,000 over a 10-14 years or youth soccer, If what you claim is true??????? Then you and I both KNOW you are in the top 1% and based on your self promoting, crazy ass boasting about your DD being the #1 player in the USA HA HA did you really say that!! OMG your are one of them!! Jesus dude/lady go erase that crap!!    
But i will say you proved some great arguments with your crazy ass arrogant claims of having the #1 player in the USA!! And never paying a penny because she is literally the next big thing and the ECNL team cant afford to play without her.. The only girl that I ever witnessed was that little girl from SURF that was imported from South America to play up in years @ SURF and YES she was something to watch! I know your not her family.
If your DD is a FREE SUPER DUPER STAR player and yet she could only get a 75% scholarship where the hell does that leave the average SUPER STARS? 50%-25% 10%??
I still cant imagine writing something that outrageous on social media..your poor kid has a lot to live up to.


----------



## sandshark

Hold on let me correct myself, we did pay for AYSO for a couple years but when we were asked by the clubs around town to play for them they all offered a 100% scholarship, then as she got older we paid once or twice some small paper work processing fee.
  Did you really post about your kid being the #1 player in the USA?  I still cant imagine writing such a thing, even if its true and I am sure plenty of other crazies could argue that claim.  Just the fact that you wrote it on social media is AWESOME!
And let me get this clear, are you saying the ECNL team your kid played on paid all your travel expenses? Uniform? Fancy new patches? Because we both know the outside "sponsorship" never  seems to cover everything.


----------



## gkrent

sandshark said:


> First of all where and how in 10-14 years of youth soccer did you get away with only spending $30,000? We have spent (U-Olders)  $8500.00 - $10,000 PLUS in one year on one kid flying and driving around the US playing soccer! You are crazy as it gets thinking you got away with $30,000 in a kids complete run of youth soccer! (notice i did not use the word career)


Wow.  8500-10K in one year?  You are paying way too much.  The max I paid in one year of U-older ECNL was 5K (fees and travel).  ODP is extremely low cost (100.00 per round) and YNT is free.

Further, if your kid is really good and can make a funded academy team, then those costs go away as well.


----------



## MakeAPlay

gkrent said:


> Wow.  8500-10K in one year?  You are paying way too much.  The max I paid in one year of U-older ECNL was 5K (fees and travel).  ODP is extremely low cost (100.00 per round) and YNT is free.
> 
> Further, if your kid is really good and can make a funded academy team, then those costs go away as well.


I agree 100% with you @gkrent .  We did it on the cheap with the Strikers.  Noway would my kid have played ECNL at $10k a year.  I would have just put that in her college fund and got her some academic money.  Or had her run track....


----------



## Mystery Train

sandshark said:


> First of all where and how in 10-14 years of youth soccer did you get away with only spending $30,000? We have spent (U-Olders)  $8500.00 - $10,000 PLUS in one year on one kid flying and driving around the US playing soccer! You are crazy as it gets thinking you got away with $30,000 in a kids complete run of youth soccer! (notice i did not use the word career)
> I have no idea where your player plays or what level they play (and I don't care) but your are totally out of touch with U-15 up top level youth soccer.
> Just sign up fee's alone are way over $2000.00, one out of town 4 day trip with plane, travel, hotel, coach fee's and misc is minimum of $1700.00 per player!  Keep in mind if you have a U-older player and they play at the top level they will try and scam you for 3-plus out of state tournaments  "showcases" and almost weekly games out of town, plus 4 days per week training sessions and all the misc BS. Oh and don't forget out of state college tours!
> So.. don't talk to me about my knowledge on what it cost.  You never know who is on the other side of these conversations when using the computer for info.


@sandshark : Legit question:  does that $8-10K include travel for family members cross country for tournaments/showcases?  Or is that just for the player costs?


----------



## chargerfan

Mystery Train said:


> @sandshark : Legit question:  does that $8-10K include travel for family members cross country for tournaments/showcases?  Or is that just for the player costs?


I have muted him so I don't know what he is saying, but sharks ecnl NOT 8-10k per year.


----------



## MakeAPlay

sandshark said:


> Hold on let me correct myself, we did pay for AYSO for a couple years but when we were asked by the clubs around town to play for them they all offered a 100% scholarship, then as she got older we paid once or twice some small paper work processing fee.
> Did you really post about your kid being the #1 player in the USA?  I still cant imagine writing such a thing, even if its true and I am sure plenty of other crazies could argue that claim.  Just the fact that you wrote it on social media is AWESOME!
> And let me get this clear, are you saying the ECNL team your kid played on paid all your travel expenses? Uniform? Fancy new patches? Because we both know the outside "sponsorship" never  seems to cover everything.


My player is the #1 player in the country at her position I will say it again.  Regarding ECNL we didn't pay her LAST year so please pay attention.  The U18 year they had no travel expenses.  They went to Arizona and that was it and I paid $170.  You don't have to believe me.  All my kid's info is out there and you can judge for yourself you just have to watch her on TV although live is better (you can appreciate what she does a lot more when you aren't forced to follow the camera).  From U10 to U18 for 3 ECNL clubs I paid a total including travel less than $31k.  That includes trips to the Nike Manchester Cup at U14, to Chicago, Denver, PDA twice, Phoenix showcase 4 times, San Diego showcase 5 times, Norcal for interconference play at U14, Vegas showcase 4 times and twice  for the ODP Region IV and National championships and 6+ YNT camps.

Just because you can't IMAGINE something it doesn't make it untrue.  Our kids obviously are in different orbits.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MakeAPlay

chargerfan said:


> I have muted him so I don't know what he is saying, but sharks ecnl NOT 8-10k per year.


I have no idea where they come up with that number.  I think that they must travel the whole family.  That or I want a part time job working for that club.  That is one helluva mark up!!


----------



## NoGoal

gkrent said:


> Wow.  8500-10K in one year?  You are paying way too much.  The max I paid in one year of U-older ECNL was 5K (fees and travel).  ODP is extremely low cost (100.00 per round) and YNT is free.
> 
> Further, if your kid is really good and can make a funded academy team, then those costs go away as well.


Same here, Eagles ECNL was $2200 club fee, includes training, uniforms, coaches per diem and $2700-3000 for ECNL travel fee includes, flight, hotel and meals.  Total about $4900-$5200 a year.

Sandshark, your club is bending you over big time!


----------



## chargerfan

MakeAPlay said:


> I have no idea where they come up with that number.  I think that they must travel the whole family.  That or I want a part time job working for that club.  That is one helluva mark up!!


The only way you would hit that is if you traveled with the whole family. I don't understand why he would make up a number at random. Maybe he's including the Ruth's Chris meal he must treat his daughter to after each game?


----------



## The Driver

@sandshark

UCLA number 5 is super duper duper

She is the 4 back for the number 1 team in the Nation 

Super duper but you refer to her as poor kid 

What do the numbers have to do with the dds?


----------



## Nutmeg

This shows me that the soccer pyramid is in full effect. Players at the top will and do have a vastly different experience than players at the bottom, especially financially.  have no doubt both MAP and the other poster are speaking their truth to their own experiences. It's just that the difference between those two families is night and day.


----------



## gkrent

Nutmeg said:


> This shows me that the soccer pyramid is in full effect. Players at the top will and do have a vastly different experience than players at the bottom, especially financially.  have no doubt both MAP and the other poster are speaking their truth to their own experiences. It's just that the difference between those two families is night and day.


I have another player that is not ODP caliber, and her costs are even LESS.


----------



## El Clasico

@MakeAPlay...keep in mind that everyone's perception is going to be different. There are a lot of people on this board that really don't know who your daughter is, and so many people in club soccer in general, who live in a bubble. Refer back to a previous post when I stated that the baller's don't pay or pay very little and rarely does anybody on the team know the specifics...ESPECIALLY TEAM MANAGERS. There are entire boys teams where the parents pay $0.00 which is why it is important to have a girls program for the clubs.

On the flip side, I think that you would be amazed as what has happened just in the last 2 years with the cost of Club Soccer.  It would be safe to say that costs have, on average, doubled in the last 24 months as Clubs look to add heft to compete for market share.  These are no longer non-profits in anything other than IRS Status.  Money is driving these clubs to be bigger and bigger and teams are becoming more diluted than ever. Clubs will bring in anyone from anywhere as long as the checks clear the bank. Didn't Legends just add almost 20 teams to SCDSL flight 3 from a signature program to add more players to the Legends pool?  These clubs are starting to make the Mafia look like amateurs. Guys that normally would have trouble landing a shoe shine job have figured out how to swindle middle class folks out of millions.

For those of you that don't know, and sometimes MakeAPlay forgets, is that everyone on this board is going to have a different experience. For now, MakeAPlay's kid sets the standard and nobody here will be toppling her from her pedestal anytime soon.  As I have stated before, if your kid is the real deal, you would already know because it hardly matters where you play or for what league, recruiters will come knocking.

Now, in sharks defense, I know of several people who spend very close to $10K a year and don't bat an eye at it.  It is lunacy. They would be much better off opening a college account for their kids.


----------



## sandshark

Lets lay a couple things out.
Club fee's $2200
DD alone with team!
2-3 out of state showcases:
5-day trip with flight - food - transportation team van split - tournament fee's - coach per diem -Hotel- misc "fun for the team" $1100.00-$1500.00 
7-day trip with about the same stuff $1300-$1800
8-days National championship $1500-$1900
Family LV Showcase $1000.00 - 
Weekends in Ca showcases with gas,food hotel average about $600.00 per weekend including coach per diem
Practice 25 min from home 4 days per week GAS
and the list goes on and on, so ya $8500-up is a real number
We don't have to pay club fee's but everything else we paid.


----------



## Zerodenero

sandshark said:


> Lets lay a couple things out.
> Club fee's $2200
> DD alone with team!
> 2-3 out of state showcases:
> 5-day trip with flight - food - transportation team van split - tournament fee's - coach per diem -Hotel- misc "fun for the team" $1100.00-$1500.00
> 7-day trip with about the same stuff $1300-$1800
> 8-days National championship $1500-$1900
> Family LV Showcase $1000.00 -
> Weekends in Ca showcases with gas,food hotel average about $600.00 per weekend including coach per diem
> Practice 25 min from home 4 days per week GAS
> and the list goes on and on, so ya $8500-up is a real number
> We don't have to pay club fee's but everything else we paid.


You missed something...and it's a big one.

Time/discussions/dialog, every weekend, with your daughter = Pricele$$.


----------



## The Driver

Zerodenero said:


> You missed something...and it's a big one.
> 
> Time/discussions/dialog, every weekend, with your daughter = Pricele$$.


Healthy lifestyle


----------



## Nutmeg

The costs are outrageous. It's A la Carte soccer in today's world. The team fee is just the beginning. Travel costs are excessive, uniforms costs are ridiculous, ODP is out of control, coaches per diem, transport  and the list grows every month. The worst new one is now clubs who employ skill trainers and private so called strength coaches for DA teams for before practice technical warmup for "skill development".  Then turn around and use that connection to grow their own private business and charge obscene amounts for out of club individual training for some players all while other players on same team pay nothing for same session. This is toxic to club soccer and to a team but yet will be the norm soon enough. Clubs create an environment of keep up or fall behind and pay to play or your replaced. The bottom end is paying for the top end. Nothing new in club soccer or America.


----------



## El Clasico

Nutmeg said:


> The costs are outrageous. It's A la Carte soccer in today's world. Clubs create an environment of keep up or fall behind and pay to play or your replaced. The bottom end is paying for the top end. Nothing new in club soccer or America.


While this is a very true statement, there is one difference. Generally, the top income earners pay for everyone else to play soccer and most will tell you that they don't mind.  The reason that this is actually good is that some of these kids should NOT be on the field but because their parents are willing to subsidize other players, they get a pass.  It's a win for the club and a win for the parent whose kid would not otherwise make the team. The big loser is the team...which is why you keep this hush-hush from the parents and manager.


----------



## Nutmeg

El Clasico said:


> While this is a very true statement, there is one difference. Generally, the top income earners pay for everyone else to play soccer and most will tell you that they don't mind.  The reason that this is actually good is that some of these kids should NOT be on the field but because their parents are willing to subsidize other players, they get a pass.  It's a win for the club and a win for the parent whose kid would not otherwise make the team. The big loser is the team...which is why you keep this hush-hush from the parents and manager.


No the big loser is the kid of those parents who is not being developed properly and is essentially being used.


----------



## gkrent

El Clasico said:


> @MakeAPlayOn the flip side, I think that you would be amazed as what has happened just in the last 2 years with the cost of Club Soccer.  It would be safe to say that costs have, on average, doubled in the last 24 months as Clubs look to add heft to compete for market share.


My player paid about 5K last year.  



El Clasico said:


> Now, in sharks defense, I know of several people who spend very close to $10K a year and don't bat an eye at it.  It is lunacy. They would be much better off opening a college account for their kids.


WTF?  What club is charging these fees?  This *is* lunacy.  Further, my kid never went on a 7 day trip for anything except paid training camps.  What trips go 7-8 days?


----------



## NoGoal

gkrent said:


> My player paid about 5K last year.
> 
> 
> 
> WTF?  What club is charging these fees?  This *is* lunacy.  Further, my kid never went on a 7 day trip for anything except paid training camps.  What trips go 7-8 days?


Maybe the DOC was marking up the travel costs to make mo money, mo money, mo money!


----------



## MakeAPlay

sandshark said:


> Truth is we have NEVER in all the years of my DD playing had to pay full or even sometime any sign up fee's, but yes we did have to pay all our own travel and personal expense. My "tone" is based on watching others fall for the youth soccer scam, we don't fall for anything, we know exactly what we are getting and we base the worth a lot different than most.
> And YES you are correct I do not for a single second believe you only paid $30,000 over a 10-14 years or youth soccer, If what you claim is true??????? Then you and I both KNOW you are in the top 1% and based on your self promoting, crazy ass boasting about your DD being the #1 player in the USA HA HA did you really say that!! OMG your are one of them!! Jesus dude/lady go erase that crap!!
> But i will say you proved some great arguments with your crazy ass arrogant claims of having the #1 player in the USA!! And never paying a penny because she is literally the next big thing and the ECNL team cant afford to play without her.. The only girl that I ever witnessed was that little girl from SURF that was imported from South America to play up in years @ SURF and YES she was something to watch! I know your not her family.
> If your DD is a FREE SUPER DUPER STAR player and yet she could only get a 75% scholarship where the hell does that leave the average SUPER STARS? 50%-25% 10%??
> I still cant imagine writing something that outrageous on social media..your poor kid has a lot to live up to.


My player is better it's just a fact.  I know great players that get zero dollars oh and I said 75%+ get that straight.  You don't have to believe me about my player.  Most people don't understand the phases of the moon or seasons. Plenty of people don't believe in global warming.  I don't really care.  Everyone eventually has to admit that I am right when reality hits.  Let's hope that it doesn't hit you too hard.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## sandshark

MakeAPlay said:


> My player is better it's just a fact.  I know great players that get zero dollars oh and I said 75%+ get that straight.  You don't have to believe me about my player.  Most people don't understand the phases of the moon or seasons. Plenty of people don't believe in global warming.  I don't really care.  Everyone eventually has to admit that I am right when reality hits.  Let's hope that it doesn't hit you too hard.  Good luck to you and your player.


Your tone is that of pure arrogance and zero % humble. You are the perfect example of a horrible ambassador of how to act when you have a child that reaches a high level of sucsess in any sport! A little FYI for you, we have TWO professional athletes in our family NOT college level but the real deal professional level and we would never say the kind of arrogant crap your boasting about! Your attitude is horrific and embarrassing to anyone with an once of humility in life. I bet you were a real dam treat to share the sidelines with  ha ha 
Just by reading your immodest post makes me wonder WTH it must be like to spend weekends riding to and from games with you?


----------



## Gokicksomegrass

El Clasico said:


> While this is a very true statement, there is one difference. Generally, the top income earners pay for everyone else to play soccer and most will tell you that they don't mind.  The reason that this is actually good is that some of these kids should NOT be on the field but because their parents are willing to subsidize other players, they get a pass.  It's a win for the club and a win for the parent whose kid would not otherwise make the team. The big loser is the team...which is why you keep this hush-hush from the parents and manager.


Dunno why some folks are freaking out over $10k for soccer. For some folks, $10k is just another after school activity. Like
some girls living in nice area going to $35k private skools and being "horsey" girls, also. where some dads build an indoor barn with ac
so their dd don't have to be in the sun and bugs. with privates coming to their house and own toca machine. paying for a big ass dinner
with booze for the parents. then, some secret sauce donations. for mere mortals like me, who can blame them if they can?
like it or not, elite soccer is a high status sport for girls. lots of clubs know that milk folks as much as possible.
just don't be a cow and focus on yoru kid.


----------



## Nutmeg

Gokicksomegrass said:


> Dunno why some folks are freaking out over $10k for soccer. For some folks, $10k is just another after school activity. Like
> some girls living in nice area going to $35k private skools and being "horsey" girls, also. where some dads build an indoor barn with ac
> so their dd don't have to be in the sun and bugs. with privates coming to their house and own toca machine. paying for a big ass dinner
> with booze for the parents. then, some secret sauce donations. for mere mortals like me, who can blame them if they can?
> like it or not, elite soccer is a high status sport for girls. lots of clubs know that milk folks as much as possible.
> just don't be a cow and focus on yoru kid.


I wish I had a horse.


----------



## sandshark

I want a barn with AC


----------



## Ricky Fandango

Gokicksomegrass said:


> Dunno why some folks are freaking out over $10k for soccer. For some folks, $10k is just another after school activity. Like
> some girls living in nice area going to $35k private skools and being "horsey" girls, also. where some dads build an indoor barn with ac
> so their dd don't have to be in the sun and bugs. with privates coming to their house and own toca machine. paying for a big ass dinner
> with booze for the parents. then, some secret sauce donations. for mere mortals like me, who can blame them if they can?
> like it or not, elite soccer is a high status sport for girls. lots of clubs know that milk folks as much as possible.
> just don't be a cow and focus on yoru kid.


It paid off for our family.
It wont for everyone.

Be realistic about your kid's talent or lack therof.
Let them find their path and facilitate that goal, and realize there are no guarantees.
Everyone needs to make their own plan based on what God blesses them with.


----------



## Ricky Fandango

Nutmeg said:


> No the big loser is the kid of those parents who is not being developed properly and is essentially being used.


Not the most positive attitude.
Isnt it the parents who "develop" the character of their children?
As far as skill, who do you think developed Ronaldinho or Pele?

If you dont like the system in place, move to change it or opt out.


----------



## MakeAPlay

sandshark said:


> Your tone is that of pure arrogance and zero % humble. You are the perfect example of a horrible ambassador of how to act when you have a child that reaches a high level of sucsess in any sport! A little FYI for you, we have TWO professional athletes in our family NOT college level but the real deal professional level and we would never say the kind of arrogant crap your boasting about! Your attitude is horrific and embarrassing to anyone with an once of humility in life. I bet you were a real dam treat to share the sidelines with  ha ha
> Just by reading your immodest post makes me wonder WTH it must be like to spend weekends riding to and from games with you?


Oh sweet you have a professional athlete in the famiky whoopee. I don't give a $hit. I played professionally too so what a$$hole we are talking about girls soccer.  Are your professional athletes girls soccer players?  No.  So shut up. If you paid $10k+ for kids soccer I would take advantage of your dumbass too.  You are an idiot and that is clear.  Smart people take advantage of idiots like you.

Now what Mitch?


----------



## sandshark

Ha ha WOW your crazy is showing through.


----------



## Nutmeg

Ricky Fandango said:


> Not the most positive attitude.
> Isnt it the parents who "develop" the character of their children?
> As far as skill, who do you think developed Ronaldinho or Pele?
> 
> If you dont like the system in place, move to change it or opt out.


I think your misunderstanding what I'm saying or maybe I said it poorly. Not talking on personal character at all only about financial pay to play model of DA soccer. Dinho and Pele are men from Brazil and have no merit in the conversation of American girls or boys DA soccer or on my point.  My contention to the statement I referenced, Is the parent comes out feeling great because their DD is on a DA team, the club gets the money that pays for the top, but the player is never truly developed to their potential because they just are filling a void that typically club coaches don't have time to or care to push to get better. The player usually will max out of their ability. Thus the player was used. No I don't like this who does? And I do try to change it....everyday.  


Ricky Fandango said:


> Not the most positive attitude.
> Isnt it the parents who "develop" the character of their children?
> As far as skill, who do you think developed Ronaldinho or Pele?
> 
> If you dont like the system in place, move to change it or opt out.


----------



## surfrider

MakeAPlay said:


> Oh sweet you have a professional athlete in the famiky whoopee. I don't give a $hit. I played professionally too so what a$$hole we are talking about girls soccer.  Are your professional athletes girls soccer players?  No.  So shut up. If you paid $10k+ for kids soccer I would take advantage of your dumbass too.  You are an idiot and that is clear.  Smart people take advantage of idiots like you.
> 
> Now what Mitch?


you played professionally? Prem League? Bundasliga? MLS?   Im not being a dick, just want to get background.  Thx


----------



## Lion Eyes

Nutmeg said:


> No the big loser is the kid of those parents who is not being developed properly and is essentially being used.


Not all clubs practice what you seem to be experiencing...


----------



## Lion Eyes

Nutmeg said:


> I think your misunderstanding what I'm saying or maybe I said it poorly. Not talking on personal character at all only about financial pay to play model of DA soccer. Dinho and Pele are men from Brazil and have no merit in the conversation of American girls or boys DA soccer or on my point.  My contention to the statement I referenced, Is the parent comes out feeling great because their DD is on a DA team, the club gets the money that pays for the top, but the player is never truly developed to their potential because they just are filling a void that typically club coaches don't have time to or care to push to get better. The player usually will max out of their ability. Thus the player was used. No I don't like this who does? And I do try to change it....everyday.


Parents need to deal with reality.
First thing a parent must realize is the realistic ability of their player and the desires of their player.
I'm fortunate to have two extremely talented players. 
One had the drive and the self motivation to be in the top couple hundred players of her birth year. 
Two had the skills to play at the college level, she didn't have the same drive and motivation as her older sister. 
I'm proud of both of them and what they accomplished playing soccer. 
Players that have 1/2 the joy and accomplishment of my players will have had a successful career....
Good luck, play good soccer.


----------



## Ricky Fandango

Nutmeg said:


> I think your misunderstanding what I'm saying or maybe I said it poorly. Not talking on personal character at all only about financial pay to play model of DA soccer. Dinho and Pele are men from Brazil and have no merit in the conversation of American girls or boys DA soccer or on my point.  My contention to the statement I referenced, Is the parent comes out feeling great because their DD is on a DA team, the club gets the money that pays for the top, but the player is never truly developed to their potential because they just are filling a void that typically club coaches don't have time to or care to push to get better. The player usually will max out of their ability. Thus the player was used. No I don't like this who does? And I do try to change it....everyday.


You stated your position clearly. I just took it in another direction.
People and players get used everywhere.
Players and people also use the systems in place.
Our job is to figure out how to come out on the winning end of things.


----------



## timmyh

surfrider said:


> you played professionally? Prem League? Bundasliga? MLS?   Im not being a dick, just want to get background.  Thx


Crickets.
I think MAP might have been college gymnast of some sort, so I don't think you will get a response on this one.


----------



## outside!

El Clasico said:


> @MakeAPlayThere are entire boys teams where the parents pay $0.00 which is why it is important to have a girls program for the clubs.


If this is true and those clubs EVER use a public park or field, then they are in violation of California's "Fair Play in Community Sports Act". 
From http://legalaidatwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Fair_Play_Act_FAQ.pdf

"The law requires that girls’ and boys’ sports be given equal access to resources such as athletic fields and sports equipment. The Fair Play Act covers programs run directly by park and recreation departments as well as programs offered by third-party youth sports organizations that use park and recreation facilities."


----------



## MakeAPlay

surfrider said:


> you played professionally? Prem League? Bundasliga? MLS?   Im not being a dick, just want to get background.  Thx


Yes but not soccer.  Which was my point.  We are talking about soccer so if you have a kid who is a pro baseball player or volleyball player or surfer or cyclist or skateboarder or golfer then your experience is irrelevant.  Me and my player's other parent both played sports at a very high level yet when we entered the soccer recruiting arena it was 100% different than both of our experiences with recruiting in OTHER sports so we sought out help from people who HAD BEEN THROUGH THE PROCESS BEFORE.

I hate having to use capital letters so much but clearly there are reading comprehension problems on this board...


----------



## Gokicksomegrass

Sometimes, i think that many clubs, coaches, docs, and homers would love this site to be gone.
attacking folks who are trying to help out and pass on the knowledge, leaving parents to figure stuff out alone while
getting their pockets picked and their kid messed up. don't get caught up on the messenger, but rather listen
and follow the message. The Knowledge.

I personally do not know any of these folks, but I appreciate them. they do not need to be here. they have their own
secret college players parent's circle, if you really think about it the number of kids who played from u-5 to u18, it is a really
small club of knowledgeable folks. So, don't leave. Well, not until my kid plays college ball.


----------



## CaliKlines

Gokicksomegrass said:


> Sometimes, i think that many clubs, coaches, docs, and homers would love this site to be gone.
> attacking folks who are trying to help out and pass on the knowledge, leaving parents to figure stuff out alone while
> getting their pockets picked and their kid messed up. don't get caught up on the messenger, but rather listen
> and follow the message. The Knowledge.
> 
> I personally do not know any of these folks, but I appreciate them. they do not need to be here. they have their own
> secret college players parent's circle, if you really think about it the number of kids who played from u-5 to u18, it is a really
> small club of knowledgeable folks. So, don't leave. Well, not until my kid plays college ball.


But you also need to realize that their experience is just their experience. It won't be your experience. Some people on this forum think that they are just "telling it like it is" and if you don't agree with them, then "you don't know what you are talking about", also known as a Know it All. My player was recruited in 8th grade and committed in Dec of her sophomore year in high school. She is not a purple unicorn...she left the ECNL when the recruiting process started, and never got a sniff from ODP. Her individual accolades are limited...But she will be playing in the ACC next year with a team that finished in the sweet 16 of the  2016 Women's College tournament. Plus she gets a huge variety of majors to choose from, at an institution close to family and a myriad of job opportunities. Our experience won't be yours either, nor will Ricky F's or gkent. Your path is going to be your path, so take any of our experiences with a grain of salt. And good luck on your journey GrassKicker.


----------



## CaliKlines

Here is a list of questions we developed when speaking to a college coach during unofficial visits or player initiated phone calls...just thought I would share in case it could help out any pre-commitment players:

College Coach Questions

-What was your (insert conference)record last season?

-What was your overall record last season?

-What is your program’s most impressive accomplishment during the last 5 seasons?

-How would you describe your coaching style?

-What formations do you run?

-What is the style of play that you want to see?

-What are your goals for the team next season? And the one after that?

-How many players do you normally carry on the roster? How many do you normally rely upon in game situations?

-What is the practice schedule during the season?

-What is a typical day like for your players during the season? How about in the offseason?

-What type of training happens in the offseason and over the summer? Is there an offseason?

-What is the team’s overall GPA?

-What does (insert school name) do to academically support the players?

-What GPA do I need to maintain to gain admission?

-What should I shoot for on the SAT test?

-How do players compensate for time away from class?

-Do all of the players live in the same dorm?

-What state do most of your players come from?

-If I am able to earn a scholarship and then I get injured, what happens to the scholarship? Does it go away? Do other schools do it differently?

-Given the limited number of times you’ve been able to see me play, do you see me as a serious prospect for (insert school name)?


----------



## MakeAPlay

@CaliKlines you just can never really tell the whole truth now can you.  Your embrace of the classic fallacy is going to lead to my prediction coming true.  Keep on playing checkers Captain Cali.  Keep on playing.

Tell me about how great the ACC is.  Is it the Legends FC of conferences.  I'm sure that you are familiar with the coaches from the top teams.  How do Anson, Mark, Steve and Robbie like to run their ships? 

You know what eventually happens to all false prophets don't you...


----------



## The Driver

MakeAPlay said:


> You know what eventually happens to all false prophets don't you...


What happens to false prophets?


----------



## Ricky Fandango

The Driver said:


> What happens to false prophets?


They get smote.


----------



## Multi Sport

Nice article for those who have players in HS. I was surprised how low the percentage is for ECNL/DA players.. 

http://goalnation.com/youth-soccer-the-5-worst-mistakes-in-college-recruiting/


----------



## espola

Multi Sport said:


> Nice article for those who have players in HS. I was surprised how low the percentage is for ECNL/DA players..
> 
> http://goalnation.com/youth-soccer-the-5-worst-mistakes-in-college-recruiting/


Marketing for their business.


----------



## outside!

Multi Sport said:


> Nice article for those who have players in HS. I was surprised how low the percentage is for ECNL/DA players..
> 
> http://goalnation.com/youth-soccer-the-5-worst-mistakes-in-college-recruiting/


Interesting that many college coaches say ID camps are their preferred way of finding players.


----------



## GoWest

outside! said:


> Interesting that many college coaches say ID camps are their preferred way of finding players.


It is interesting. My DD's recruitment journey started the summer following her 8th grade year at a couple "conglomerate" type camps attended by a couple hundred college coaches ranging from NAIA to national champion P5 programs. The camps were very well run so we were FORTUNATE because her teammates didn't enjoy the same level of organization at other camps.

One piece of advice, it is MORE important for your DD to play against top level talent then with top level talent. If your DD can hold her own one-on-one CONSISTENTLY while playing against g/wnt camper types, sleep well because she will get noticed and be recruited.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Jeff Jaye is all business.  He probably paid goal
Nation to interview him.   Coaches are any top players so they can keep their jobs.  If your kid is good enough to play DA, ODP, ID2, ecnl PDP and she is willing to be aggressive and call many coaches she will likely play in college.  Jeff prays on the middle and lower third kids’ dreams and desires to play college soccer.  He’s here to make a buck.  

All the info. You need us on the internet for FREE!!!!!!!!   Any questions private message me and I’ll give advice for free.  Don’t be a sucker to any of these recruiting services.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

FREE ADVICE:

1) Play and develop at highest level possible. Play against the best competition in front of colleges and make sure your coach places you in the best position to maximize your potential.

2) Map out all options (D1, D2, D3, NAIA).  Understand that some of the top programs demand lots of time and you may not be able to major in what you want.  

3) It is very remote to receive a 100% athletic scholarship but it is possible to receive 100% funding through both athletic AND academic means.  D3 you can receive 100% funding for your academic but 0% for athletic.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

another way to get into a D1 squad is for dad or mom to call the coach and say “my daughter loves your school and will not need any money during her 4 years at your school”.  Provided your dd can play that can be very attractive to the coach.  I know families that have done this.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Totall disagree with Jaye about parents not being involved in the process.  I wrote the barebones of the initial emails and allowed her to read them and add her two cents when necessary.  I also collected emails from coaches all over the US.  The first step is to let the coach know U interested.  Buzz words like DA, ECNL, ID2, WNT, ODP attract their attention.  A short video of two minutes can also help.  Make  sure you have your BEST clips in the beginning.  Coaches have a short attention span and know from the first 2-3 clips if they are interested.

Videos that show execeptional speed, quckiness and technical skills are best.  Goal scoring no so much unless you are scoring via the head or off one touch defelections.  Most videos I have seen are boring.


----------



## espola

eastbaysoccer said:


> another way to get into a D1 squad is for dad or mom to call the coach and say “my daughter loves your school and will not need any money during her 4 years at your school”.  Provided your dd can play that can be very attractive to the coach.  I know families that have done this.


The ideal candidate for a college soccer coach is a national team player with 110% of normal physique, rich parents who attended his school, and Merit Scholarship academics.  None of the parents of those players (if they exist) are reading this thread.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Low budget programs D1 , D2, D3 and NAIA likely recruit at their ID camps.  

Recruit from the bottom up.  Look at the NCAA standings.  Last place teams mid major conferences give one a
Higher probability of making their team.  Then check their academics.  Do they meet your needs?

WNT players can start at the top and move down.  Most other recruits should start from the bottom (bottom as in D3 or obscure D1/D2 soccer programs).


----------



## eastbaysoccer

espola said:


> The ideal candidate for a college soccer coach is a national team player with 110% of normal physique, rich parents who attended his school, and Merit Scholarship academics.  None of the parents of those players (if they exist) are reading this thread.


Lol very true.  Just wanted to throw that out there.


----------



## Multi Sport

outside! said:


> Interesting that many college coaches say ID camps are their preferred way of finding players.


That was another thing that caught my eye. If the percentage numbers are correct on the DA/ECNL players then College coaches signing players through ID camps makes sense.


----------



## Multi Sport

eastbaysoccer said:


> Jeff Jaye is all business.  He probably paid goal
> Nation to interview him.   Coaches are any top players so they can keep their jobs.  If your kid is good enough to play DA, ODP, ID2, ecnl PDP and she is willing to be aggressive and call many coaches she will likely play in college.  Jeff prays on the middle and lower third kids’ dreams and desires to play college soccer.  He’s here to make a buck.
> 
> All the info. You need us on the internet for FREE!!!!!!!!   Any questions private message me and I’ll give advice for free.  Don’t be a sucker to any of these recruiting services.


Agree on some of your points but disagree that these recruiting services are worthless. 

If you understand that these companies, just like club soccer, are businesses and need to make money then you will have a better understanding of what to expect. Be smart, use their FREE services to your advantage. We did this for our DD and it paid off.

You can't lump all the recruiting companies together. My sister and her husband back East were both involved with a recruitment company (not soccer) and were very picky with whom they signed up. They only did this for about a year because it demanded a lot of their time.


----------



## Multi Sport

espola said:


> Marketing for their business.


And what's wrong with that?


----------



## Striker17

Multi Sport said:


> Agree on some of your points but disagree that these recruiting services are worthless.
> 
> If you understand that these companies, just like club soccer, are businesses and need to make money then you will have a better understanding of what to expect. Be smart, use their FREE services to your advantage. We did this for our DD and it paid off.
> 
> You can't lump all the recruiting companies together. My sister and her husband back East were both involved with a recruitment company (not soccer) and were very picky with whom they signed up. They only did this for about a year because it demanded a lot of their time.


Did you use this service?
Anything in Goal Nation is usually garbage so I ask sincerely.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

We did not use recruiting services.  I suppose they aren’t worthless if one gets a return on investment.  If you want hand holding then it could be for you.

Nothing wrong with a business.   IMO you don’t need to pay.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Again you do not need to use these services.  It’s all free!!!!!  People who come into this blog and say “use them” are people who run these businesses.


----------



## Multi Sport

Striker17 said:


> Did you use this service?
> Anything in Goal Nation is usually garbage so I ask sincerely.


We used the free version of Cap U for about 6 months. Then we paid for one month of the service and we were able to view the schools who were viewing our DDs profile and she began to compile a list of those schools. 

I agree that most of the work can be done without using these companies. Before we used the Cap U services I reached out to my sister (D1 player in another sport, HoF at her school, # retired, Collegiate Player of the Year so she has cred at her Alma Mater ) and asked her if she could ask the womens soccer coach if this is legit.  Short answer is yes..


----------



## Multi Sport

eastbaysoccer said:


> Again you do not need to use these services.  It’s all free!!!!!  People who come into this blog and say “use them” are people who run these businesses.





eastbaysoccer said:


> We did not use recruiting services.  I suppose they aren’t worthless if one gets a return on investment.  If you want hand holding then it could be for you.
> 
> Nothing wrong with a business.   IMO you don’t need to pay.


Hand holding? Ok..


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Another a piece of advice.  When you make your 2 minute video.  2 minute max,  keep it unlisted on you tube.  Do not tag it or share with family and friends.  When u email coaches send them the link and you’ll be able to track if they watch and for how long.   It’s free!


----------



## eastbaysoccer

As for camps again.  We used them to rule schools out.  My dd got to take tours of the schools and meet the coaches.  

It’s apparent that coaches have invite certain players to watch.  If you have been personally invited via telephone or thru your DOC consider yourself lucky.

Some schools only invite small numbers and screen (which violates NCAA rules) while most being in as many as possible.  If you attend a camp call the coach and make sure there is a cap of the number of people invited.  30 or less.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

We used captain U also.  You can sign up for free.  I always felt the emails we received were blast emails trying to get you to come to their ID camp.   Coaches make fun of this services and find them annoying.  They would like to her from your dd.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Questions to ask the coach:

1) how many recruits in my class are u looking to bring in.  Are you done and how many spots do you have? When do you expect to fill all the spots?

2) can I major in what I want and play soccer simultaneously?  What is the GPA of the team and majors of the other players?

3) is my scholarship guaranteed over 4 years and if I were injured would it still be honored?

4) will I have an opportunity to play in my freshman year?

—————

Watch live stream of team.  Know how they are doing. Mention u saw them play to the coach.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

If you attend camp ask your DOC to call the head coach and ask for an honest evaluation.


----------



## Multi Sport

eastbaysoccer said:


> We used captain U also.  You can sign up for free.  I always felt the emails we received were blast emails trying to get you to come to their ID camp.   Coaches make fun of this services and find them annoying.  They would like to her from your dd.


You do get emails asking you to attend camps and those are obvious attempts at fund raising but that is when us, as parents, need to step in. In our case, there were three schools that viewed our DDs video on Cap U more then half a dozen times and my DD reached out to them. She made trips to all three. Counter that with three schools who made contact with her via Showcases that led to two trips. She signed with one of the Cap U schools. But that's our story..

On your point of "hand holding". There are people that need that. Not because they don't have the smarts to do it themselves but maybe there are other things like a language barrier. English is my Moms second language and my Dads third and if it wasn't for my sister being such a standout I'm sure they would have needed some "hand holding". You also discount the kids who may be in a single parent household. Maybe the parent doesn't have the time and it's all up to the kid. These services can help the kid get the exposure they lack.

Maybe you are one of the parents who has/had a kid who has D1 schools sending them letters daily so your kid is set, or you have done some big time research and figured out how to navigate these tricky waters? I don't know. You have posted a lot of good information that people can use, props for that. Hopefully parents can use what is posted here to help their own kids in their attempts to get a soccer scholarship.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Multi-sport:

Totally agree with you.  Some people need a little help.  Very tricky waters indeed.

For single families and families who are less educated the process and expense can be daunting.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Single families where Kim are dad are working full time.  Or if you speak little English.....To save money:

1) Ask another parent to make a really good video of your kid. Pay them. 

2). Attend a camp (maybe UCSD) where there will be LOTS of coaches there.  Find out who they are and have your daughter make contact before the camp.....and then after.  Bigger bang for your buck.

2) use your DOC or coach to make contact for you with the same coaches u saw at UCSD.

3) for D1 call the coaches.  Be very direct.
“ I am very interested”
“ you can contact my club coach”

4)make a short BIO 
Name
Height
Position
List soccer accolades
List measurable if impressive: track times, vertical leap, bench and leg press.
Video link-


----------



## MakeAPlay

http://www.vcstar.com/story/sports/2017/10/25/buena-grad-hailie-mace-proves-gem-ucla-soccer-program/788031001/

Lot's of ways to skin a cat.  Don't be discouraged if the process is starting off slow.  Be persistent.  Good luck to everyone that has a player looking for the right fit.  It is out there.


----------



## Mystery Train

MakeAPlay said:


> http://www.vcstar.com/story/sports/2017/10/25/buena-grad-hailie-mace-proves-gem-ucla-soccer-program/788031001/
> 
> Lot's of ways to skin a cat.  Don't be discouraged if the process is starting off slow.  Be persistent.  Good luck to everyone that has a player looking for the right fit.  It is out there.


That's a great story.  Especially love Cromwell's quote about playing multiple sports.  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mystery Train said:


> That's a great story.  Especially love Cromwell's quote about playing multiple sports.  Thanks for sharing.


I knew about the story and even mentioned to some of my friends when she was a freshman that I thought that she was the best recruit from the 2015 class even though she was the last domestic recruit that they committed!  She committed after most of the 2016 class was committed!  The funny thing is @NoGoal had told me about her right after she committed because he had seen her play for the Eagles and he told me she was the real deal.


----------



## Susie Penn

During the high school season are kids allowed to attend a college ID camp?  Thanks in advance!


----------



## espola

Susie Penn said:


> During the high school season are kids allowed to attend a college ID camp?  Thanks in advance!


Which Section?


----------



## Susie Penn

CIF  SS


----------



## CopaMundial

Susie Penn said:


> CIF  SS


I read today that CIF SS limits two camps per player, per season. They have to be hosted by a college and college coach. You need the HS head coach, Athletic Director and CIF SS admin approval prior to attending. Does anyone know if all this is true?? What a pain. Why does San Diego have so much more restrictions than our other CIF counterparts?


----------



## espola

CopaMundial said:


> I read today that CIF SS limits two camps per player, per season. They have to be hosted by a college and college coach. You need the HS head coach, Athletic Director and CIF SS admin approval prior to attending. Does anyone know if all this is true?? What a pain. Why does San Diego have so much more restrictions than our other CIF counterparts?


It used to be worse - no ID camps with full-side games were allowed.  If it weren't for rules, there would be no need for CIF.

From San Diego Section Green Book -- 

http://www.cifsds.org/uploads/2/3/3/6/23368454/greenbook_2017-18.pdf

600.1
 <...>
c. Attendance at College ID camps in all sports 
1. With CIFSDS prior approval, student-athletes are permitted to attend two college ID camps in any given season of sport. Attendance at any camp beyond two ID camps is a violation and would result in the penalties described in 601.A. 
2. A College ID camp is defined as a sport specific camp, held on a college campus under the direction of a college coach. 
3. Student athletes must receive permission from the site sport head coach and the Athletic Director/Administrator prior to attending the ID camp. ID camp participation form must be completed, signed and approved by CIFSDS prior to a student attending. Participation in an ID camp without prior approval would result in the penalties described in 601.A. 
4. Camp flyer or link to camp website must be forwarded to the CIFSDS office along with completed ID camp participation form. 
5. The section office will list approved college ID camps on the CIFSDS web site for reference purposes.

<...>

601.1 PENALTIES FOR VIOLATION OF BYLAW 600 
A. Individual 
(1) First Offense in High School Career in Any Sport 48 The student becomes immediately ineligible for participation with his/her high school team for a number of contests equal to twice the number of contests of outside competition or twice the number of practices/tryouts in which the student participated.
​


----------



## outside!

Funny how none of this affects the mostly male football players, yet disadvantages the most direct female counterpart to football (which would be soccer). If someone had the money and time, this would be an easy Title IX lawsuit to win. If a college coach is very interested, have your player attend the ID camp, inform the HS coach and AD and take the lumps. For my DD, this resulted in a scholarship to good D1 program. Fuck CIF.


----------



## Striker17

outside! said:


> Funny how none of this affects the mostly male football players, yet disadvantages the most direct female counterpart to football (which would be soccer). If someone had the money and time, this would be an easy Title IX lawsuit to win. If a college coach is very interested, have your player attend the ID camp, inform the HS coach and AD and take the lumps. For my DD, this resulted in a scholarship to good D1 program. Fuck CIF.


Yep. How anyone can possibly be scared of a school district is humorous.


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## og808

Anybody have any experience with the upcoming Legends FC ID camp for girls that they would like to share on this forum?
Anybody know at how many campers do they limit this camp to?
Thanks in advance.


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## Mystery Train

og808 said:


> Anybody have any experience with the upcoming Legends FC ID camp for girls that they would like to share on this forum?
> Anybody know at how many campers do they limit this camp to?
> Thanks in advance.


They say that space is limited, but seems there are usually over a couple hundred and we've never had trouble getting in.  It was a good experience for my kid and not very expensive in my opinion.  The talks at the end of camp from the coaches was very helpful for families unfamiliar with the college recruitment scene.  Not especially valuable as far as getting "discovered" by a school, if that's your aim, but it does expose the players to big time coaches and my player found the feedback as far as what she needed to do to play at the next level quite valuable.  Don't go in expecting that a coach will see your kid and then suddenly she will be recruited.  That's often a hope that parents carry, but not how these things go.  I did see coaches really showing interest in a few players who were uncommitted junior/seniors but who must have already been on their radar.  So manage your expectations.  But the training is very high quality and my DD asked to go back each year.  We're skipping this year because of other soccer plans, but they run one of the better camps she's been to.


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## outside!

If you player is a freshman or older, they should be emailing the coaches of schools they are interested in before the camp.


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## og808

outside! said:


> If you player is a freshman or older, they should be emailing the coaches of schools they are interested in before the camp.


My DD is a sophomore and has been emailing a few schools prior to all the showcase's and large tournaments she's attended.
She attended the LMU womens ID camp back in summer 2016 which was limited to 50 campers. It was a great experience for her even with being the youngest one there as a incoming 8th grader.

Will the Legends ID Camp notify us which college coaches will be in attendance prior to the camp so she can email them prior to attending?
All they show on their website is which colleges have attended in the past.


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## Mystery Train

og808 said:


> My DD is a sophomore and has been emailing a few schools prior to all the showcase's and large tournaments she's attended.
> She attended the LMU womens ID camp back in summer 2016 which was limited to 50 campers. It was a great experience for her even with being the youngest one there as a incoming 8th grader.
> 
> Will the Legends ID Camp notify us which college coaches will be in attendance prior to the camp so she can email them prior to attending?
> All they show on their website is which colleges have attended in the past.


Yes, after registering, they will email you a list of the coaches w/ contact info.


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## cppark

Just starting the recruiting process with my 9th grade daughter and we are not from So Cal. But I find this forum to be the most helpful. My daughter played ECNL last year and wasn't a starter.  When clubs went DA many of her teammates chose DA and we stayed with the same team. This year she does start and is having a good season. Last year we received many ID camp invites because we played ECNL and that was it. Now that we are actually reaching out to coaches with video and resume, some coaches are replying back to us right away mentioning the NCAA rules but thanking us for reaching out, asking us to keep them updated with schedule, and pointing us to their ID camp. I'm guessing this is somewhat a good sign there is some level of interest by them.

Since we are new to all this, how serious should I consider doing these camps? The schools we are reaching out to are mainly D2 with a few lower D1 schools. How often do we contact the coaches that have asked us to update them? And what exactly are we updating them with - just tournament schedules? We are a middle-class family helping to put 2 kids in college right now at our local college. We support our daughter playing ECNL because this is what she wants--- to play in college. But it has been a stretch for us financially and I am trying to understand which ID camps we should invest in and at what point. Her sophomore year? And at what grade do interested coaches really start contacting club coaches?

And for those of you who have gone through this before with your 9th-10th grade daughters who were not the countries top prospects can you share your experience?


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## socalsoccercoach

Susie Penn said:


> CIF  SS


You can attend as long as the camp keep games 5 v 5 or less. I called CIF SS for my daughter a few years ago and that is exactly what they said.


----------



## soccerobserver

cppark said:


> Just starting the recruiting process with my 9th grade daughter and we are not from So Cal. But I find this forum to be the most helpful. My daughter played ECNL last year and wasn't a starter.  When clubs went DA many of her teammates chose DA and we stayed with the same team. This year she does start and is having a good season. Last year we received many ID camp invites because we played ECNL and that was it. Now that we are actually reaching out to coaches with video and resume, some coaches are replying back to us right away mentioning the NCAA rules but thanking us for reaching out, asking us to keep them updated with schedule, and pointing us to their ID camp. I'm guessing this is somewhat a good sign there is some level of interest by them.
> 
> Since we are new to all this, how serious should I consider doing these camps? The schools we are reaching out to are mainly D2 with a few lower D1 schools. How often do we contact the coaches that have asked us to update them? And what exactly are we updating them with - just tournament schedules? We are a middle-class family helping to put 2 kids in college right now at our local college. We support our daughter playing ECNL because this is what she wants--- to play in college. But it has been a stretch for us financially and I am trying to understand which ID camps we should invest in and at what point. Her sophomore year? And at what grade do interested coaches really start contacting club coaches?
> 
> And for those of you who have gone through this before with your 9th-10th grade daughters who were not the countries top prospects can you share your experience?


If finances are important then your player might also focus on getting the highest grades and scores possible. This will create more opportunities and options. For example, at Azusa Pacific DII, here in Socal, a score above 30 on the ACT can get your student a 100% free ride. A score of 25 on the ACT gets approximately  $15-18,000 knocked off the tuition. My numbers might be slightly off but you get the picture. Academic $ combined with athletic $ can help the full picture. 

As for ID camps one suggestion is that she target the schools she wants to attend and then go to those camps. Some of the big mega camps are money makers. Target selected colleges and write to specific college coaches and attend their specific camps if possible. Register your player on the specific  college websites. Watch her prospective college's game film on the web if available. In many cases the winter camps are more serious than the summer camps. Look at the biographies and  accolades of the players already on the roster to see the type of players the team selects.

As for timing she can call the colleges she is interested in to get some guidance. For example, one college coach told my player to attend his small winter camp where he recruited,  and to skip his big summer camp, which was a money maker for him.


----------



## cppark

Thanks for your reply SoccerObserver. It’s very helpful. I have a couple more questions for those of you who’ve gone through this or know of people who’ve gone this.

What are some things  your college athlete wishes they would have done differently in their recruiting process?

I’ve read many student athletes quit soccer their 1st or 2nd seasons or transfer. I’ve read players didn’t like their coaches or playing time. Are there other reasons? I’m asking these questions so my d and I can have frank discussions on what to expect if she decides this is for her.


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## PitchMom20

i downloaded a book that has some great info...and it's free!   Pretty short read, but we learned a ton.   I think this will still work...
http://iawrrgoptin.pages.ontraport.net/


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## Overlap

cppark said:


> Thanks for your reply SoccerObserver. It’s very helpful. I have a couple more questions for those of you who’ve gone through this or know of people who’ve gone this.
> 
> What are some things  your college athlete wishes they would have done differently in their recruiting process?
> 
> I’ve read many student athletes quit soccer their 1st or 2nd seasons or transfer. I’ve read players didn’t like their coaches or playing time. Are there other reasons? I’m asking these questions so my d and I can have frank discussions on what to expect if she decides this is for her.


Always, always, always pick the school for academic's first, the average lifespan of college player's is 1.5 years. I kept asking our daughter if she was 100% sure she liked the school as many coaches leave and is it a school she'd want to attend if she wasn't playing soccer, she was sure, 1 month prior to reporting I get a panic text from our daughter, coach (xyz) is no longer the coach! While everything worked out, it does happen!


----------



## PitchMom20

Overlap said:


> Always, always, always pick the school for academic's first, the average lifespan of college player's is 1.5 years. I kept asking our daughter if she was 100% sure she liked the school as many coaches leave and is it a school she'd want to attend if she wasn't playing soccer, she was sure, 1 month prior to reporting I get a panic text from our daughter, coach (xyz) is no longer the coach! While everything worked out, it does happen!


The average lifespan of a college player is 1.5 years??  Where did you get this stat?  That seems hard to believe.  Very interesting though.  Thanks for a follow-up with resource, Overlap.  I'm sending my dd away to a college for 4 years...no complaining, no quitting (as it's in out region and I still want to see her play)


----------



## Overlap

PitchMom20 said:


> The average lifespan of a college player is 1.5 years??  Where did you get this stat?  That seems hard to believe.  Very interesting though.  Thanks for a follow-up with resource, Overlap.  I'm sending my dd away to a college for 4 years...no complaining, no quitting (as it's in out region and I still want to see her play)


One of the recruiters and it was also listed in the NCAA booklet 2 years ago. It factored injuries, transfers and those player's that just stopped playing all together. I know 2 kid's that went off to play 1 & 2 years before my DD and the older one red shirted her first year and quit the second year because the coach wouldn't let her do her internship the following year and play soccer, the second kid played her first year, coach left, didn't get playing time her second year and transferred. I know that's only 2 but, I see it happening on my older DD's college team as well, 3 ACL injuries, 2 quit so, just keep in mind, it happens. I'm actually glad our DD went D3 as the scholarship wasn't tied to soccer, just merit so, in the event she decides she's done, they don't pull the scholarship. Be prepared, I felt the same way as you, I was really looking forward to seeing her play in person, she had local offers and I was thinking, this is all falling into place. She gets a call from 4 other schools, goes to visit the first in upstate NY on a Friday, coach is taking her back to the airport on Sunday, local coach calls our DD in the car, wants to facetime, he found out she was in NY, then both coaches know about each other, both want a commitment by Monday, we talk when she gets home. I tell her you need to notify the 2 schools that you won't get to and then make a decision on which school you'd want to play for, keeping in mind, which school would you attend if you weren't playing soccer or if your current coach left, she says she already knows where she wants to go...NY, I was shocked however, I've learned to enjoy watching her from my computer  and even went to see her play in upstate NY in Oct, pretty awesome and she's thriving, now it's fingers crossed for our younger DD


----------



## tugs

Overlap; which D3 did she decide on (if you don't mind my asking)?  Took my DD to ECS ID camp in Connecticut last month and directly after she got offers from a few in upstate New York, Chicago.  There were a few programs that weren't even on our radar until the offers that look pretty solid (RPI, Univ Rochester, UChicago).  As a sophomore she probably won't make a move until SAT/ACT done but wants to go out of state for college.  Congrats to your DD!


----------



## Surfref

tugs said:


> Overlap; which D3 did she decide on (if you don't mind my asking)?  Took my DD to ECS ID camp in Connecticut last month and directly after she got offers from a few in upstate New York, Chicago.  There were a few programs that weren't even on our radar until the offers that look pretty solid (RPI, Univ Rochester, UChicago).  As a sophomore she probably won't make a move until SAT/ACT done but wants to go out of state for college.  Congrats to your DD!


When my DD was going through the recruiting process we went to a few northeast ID camps that were put on by coaches she had been in contact with.  The outcome of those two trips in January and February were my daughter telling me there was no way she was going to a college that was in any part of the country were it snowed and the average temperature got below 60 degrees.  The six feet of snow in the Boston area, Pennsylvania and New York were a huge turnoff for her.


----------



## RiverRat

tugs said:


> Overlap; which D3 did she decide on (if you don't mind my asking)?  Took my DD to ECS ID camp in Connecticut last month and directly after she got offers from a few in upstate New York, Chicago.  There were a few programs that weren't even on our radar until the offers that look pretty solid (RPI, Univ Rochester, UChicago).  As a sophomore she probably won't make a move until SAT/ACT done but wants to go out of state for college.  Congrats to your DD!


You say your player received solid offers from RPI, Rochester and Chicago? Those are D3 schools that cannot offer athletic scholarships. You say she is a sophomore that hasn't taken standardized testing yet...so they can't offer any academic $ yet. What exactly did they offer?


----------



## RiverRat

Surfref said:


> When my DD was going through the recruiting process we went to a few northeast ID camps that were put on by coaches she had been in contact with.  The outcome of those two trips in January and February were my daughter telling me there was no way she was going to a college that was in any part of the country were it snowed and the average temperature got below 60 degrees.  The six feet of snow in the Boston area, Pennsylvania and New York were a huge turnoff for her.


to each their own...it's just weather. boston, philly, and nyc have much to offer that ca can't.


----------



## Overlap

tugs said:


> Overlap; which D3 did she decide on (if you don't mind my asking)?  Took my DD to ECS ID camp in Connecticut last month and directly after she got offers from a few in upstate New York, Chicago.  There were a few programs that weren't even on our radar until the offers that look pretty solid (RPI, Univ Rochester, UChicago).  As a sophomore she probably won't make a move until SAT/ACT done but wants to go out of state for college.  Congrats to your DD!


Hartwick College in Oneonta, NY, it's smaller than her HS was but, she loves it and she's doing really well academically. I give her all the credit, she put herself out there prior to the Las Vegas Player's Showcase in her Junior year. She sent invites to her school's of interest, (about 7-8 schools), she did her research online about each of the school's and then started to visit the one's close by. I think almost all were there to see her play and the invites and offers happened right after LV. I personally think a lot of her decision was because it was something different, cold weather and they were _test optional_  We had her going on her 3rd ACT test to get a better score and she was pretty much over it. It's pretty hard to be a parent during this process, we want what's best, we just need to keep in mind that it's their journey and that's very hard at times. She really did take control and we just went along for the ride, pretty crazy looking back at this last year. The thing that starts to set in after they leave is, it really does end at some point (soccer) so, hopefully they pick a school that will give them the best opportunity to excel. I don't think I could have scripted a better first year, they won their first Conference title in the schools history, 10 of her team mates are still playing, 4 made it to the first round of NCAA D3 Conference finals, she was asked to intern as a freshman for the DA and she's loving it, pretty awesome for their first year......as our youngest who is now a Junior, has no clue what she wants to do, insert emoji pulling out their own hair!


----------



## tugs

Just phone calls/emails/letters from coaches expressing interest and asking her to come by visit with girls on team and see the program.  DD not looking for athletic $; just top tier academic school and a chance to play soccer in college.  I spent 4 yrs in New York during graduate school; considered it California appreciation time


----------



## CaliKlines

Overlap said:


> ...as our youngest who is now a Junior, has no clue what she wants to do, insert emoji pulling out their own hair!


 You had some left after the first one? Congratulations, and best wishes to the youngest!


----------



## Paddingtonsoccer

Can anyone comment if NCSA is worth using (and possibly paying for the premium memberships/services) for building an athlete’s profile and being guided/filtered in the process of being seen by and communicating with coaches?  http://www.ncsasports.org/


----------



## CaliKlines

Paddingtonsoccer said:


> Can anyone comment if NCSA is worth using (and possibly paying for the premium memberships/services) for building an athlete’s profile and being guided/filtered in the process of being seen by and communicating with coaches?  http://www.ncsasports.org/


We contemplated using the NCSA service at the beginning of the recruiting process. I also have a good friend who did pay for the service for his daughter. They were happy with the outcome and felt there was a benefit. She found a great D2 school that was the perfect fit for her, and she is graduating this year after 4 years of starting, inbetween injuries. They probably would not have found this school without NCSA assistance.

We elected not to use the service, but we planned on using them by the end of sophomore year, if we weren't getting the results we wanted by doing it ourselves (with constructive assistance from the club). We did 2 conference calls with them, and felt they could contribute to the process, but still wanted to see what would happen without them. She received considerable interest during her freshman year from a number of institutions, which led us to believe we didn't need any outside assistance. She committed in Dec of her sophomore year to her dream school, so we were happy with the outcome as well.

It all just depends on the situation...I do recall thinking that it was a better value the earlier you signed up. Unless they have changed the payment system, it was a fixed fee no matter when the player signs up.


----------



## espola

Paddingtonsoccer said:


> Can anyone comment if NCSA is worth using (and possibly paying for the premium memberships/services) for building an athlete’s profile and being guided/filtered in the process of being seen by and communicating with coaches?  http://www.ncsasports.org/


 Sign up for the free stuff.


----------



## MakeAPlay

CaliKlines said:


> We contemplated using the NCSA service at the beginning of the recruiting process. I also have a good friend who did pay for the service for his daughter. They were happy with the outcome and felt there was a benefit. She found a great D2 school that was the perfect fit for her, and she is graduating this year after 4 years of starting, inbetween injuries. They probably would not have found this school without NCSA assistance.
> 
> We elected not to use the service, but we planned on using them by the end of sophomore year, if we weren't getting the results we wanted by doing it ourselves (with constructive assistance from the club). We did 2 conference calls with them, and felt they could contribute to the process, but still wanted to see what would happen without them. She received considerable interest during her freshman year from a number of institutions, which led us to believe we didn't need any outside assistance. She committed in Dec of her sophomore year to her dream school, so we were happy with the outcome as well.
> 
> It all just depends on the situation...I do recall thinking that it was a better value the earlier you signed up. Unless they have changed the payment system, it was a fixed fee no matter when the player signs up.


I thought that Oregon was her dream school or was NC State the dream school among schools that were actually interested?


----------



## goldentoe

PitchMom20 said:


> The average lifespan of a college player is 1.5 years??  Where did you get this stat?  That seems hard to believe.  Very interesting though.  Thanks for a follow-up with resource, Overlap.  I'm sending my dd away to a college for 4 years...no complaining, no quitting (as it's in out region and I still want to see her play)


I'm not sure if you have an older that went through this transition.  If not, be aware.  There are so many variables your player will face while away from home.  You can't prepare yourself or her for all of it.  You just gotta walk through it.  Best of luck.  I can promise you there will be some complaining, maybe a lot.  It's natural. I would guess that Overlap's info, as it pertains to college player's lifespans, is accurate when a player goes out of state.

Your player will be figuring everything out on their own: Time, class, soccer, the roommate, teammates, friendships, relationships with coaches, playing time, pecking order on the roster, success and failure on the field, GPA pressures, possible injuries, when and what to eat, sleep, parties, boys, alcohol (it's everywhere, some places will even have other substances), hosting recruits, community service, whether or not they have their car.  All of that stuff will be part of your new reality, and most of the time you can only be an ear on the phone.  For some it's too much to take.  My daughter's roommate for example, flamed out after one semester.  Still going to school, but is no longer on the soccer team....... For some, if they've chosen right, do the work, and have some good forutne, they have the time of their lives.


----------



## MakeAPlay

goldentoe said:


> I'm not sure if you have an older that went through this transition.  If not, be aware.  There are so many variables your player will face while away from home.  You can't prepare yourself or her for all of it.  You just gotta walk through it.  Best of luck.  I can promise you there will be some complaining, maybe a lot.  It's natural. I would guess that Overlap's info, as it pertains to college player's lifespans, is accurate when a player goes out of state.
> 
> Your player will be figuring everything out on their own: Time, class, soccer, the roommate, teammates, friendships, relationships with coaches, playing time, pecking order on the roster, success and failure on the field, GPA pressures, possible injuries, when and what to eat, sleep, parties, boys, alcohol (it's everywhere, some places will even have other substances), hosting recruits, community service, whether or not they have their car.  All of that stuff will be part of your new reality, and most of the time you can only be an ear on the phone.  For some it's too much to take.  My daughter's roommate for example, flamed out after one semester.  Still going to school, but is no longer on the soccer team....... For some, if they've chosen right, do the work, and have some good forutne, they have the time of their lives.


It is amazing when it works out like they envisioned it.  All it takes is a realistic assessment of what they want, a plan, a support system and LOTS OF HARD WORK!!


----------



## Sons of Pitches

Overlap said:


> Hartwick College in Oneonta, NY, it's smaller than her HS was but, she loves it and she's doing really well academically. I give her all the credit, she put herself out there prior to the Las Vegas Player's Showcase in her Junior year. She sent invites to her school's of interest, (about 7-8 schools), she did her research online about each of the school's and then started to visit the one's close by. I think almost all were there to see her play and the invites and offers happened right after LV. I personally think a lot of her decision was because it was something different, cold weather and they were _test optional_  We had her going on her 3rd ACT test to get a better score and she was pretty much over it. It's pretty hard to be a parent during this process, we want what's best, we just need to keep in mind that it's their journey and that's very hard at times. She really did take control and we just went along for the ride, pretty crazy looking back at this last year. The thing that starts to set in after they leave is, it really does end at some point (soccer) so, hopefully they pick a school that will give them the best opportunity to excel. I don't think I could have scripted a better first year, they won their first Conference title in the schools history, 10 of her team mates are still playing, 4 made it to the first round of NCAA D3 Conference finals, she was asked to intern as a freshman for the DA and she's loving it, pretty awesome for their first year......as our youngest who is now a Junior, has no clue what she wants to do, insert emoji pulling out their own hair!


Bless your daughter, having grown up next door to Oneonta in Cooperstown I could not wait to get out.  Love visiting in the summer, but man those winters in upstate are brutal.  

Don't get me wrong, it is a picturesque town, with two colleges, and a great lifestyle, but talk about remote.  In comparison to Southern California that had to be a big change!!

I remember in the mid 70's to 80's they had a very strong Men's program that made the NCAA final 4 a few times.  Bringing back memories of before my HS even had a soccer team.


----------



## Overlap

Sons of Pitches said:


> Bless your daughter, having grown up next door to Oneonta in Cooperstown I could not wait to get out.  Love visiting in the summer, but man those winters in upstate are brutal.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, it is a picturesque town, with two colleges, and a great lifestyle, but talk about remote.  In comparison to Southern California that had to be a big change!!
> 
> I remember in the mid 70's to 80's they had a very strong Men's program that made the NCAA final 4 a few times.  Bringing back memories of before my HS even had a soccer team.


I'm still surprised that was the school she picked. I think a lot had to do with her visit in August, it was absolutely beautiful, they treated her like a rock star during the session and she really hit it off with several of the player's. I was shocked it was a 7 hour flight and when I got to Albany, another 1.5 hour car drive!  One of the guys that was on that 80's team has a daughter on the team, they have tailgate parties at every game and they had a celebration this year for the men's team player's this year. I love the fact that it's such a big soccer school and they actually won their first ever women's conference title this year. It really has been a great experience so far.


----------



## surfrider

The visit was always the key. We did multiple visits but my kid felt it the second we entered town. Everything was all about the school. Great experience.  Your kid will know where home is when she gets there


----------



## Overlap

surfrider said:


> The visit was always the key. We did multiple visits but my kid felt it the second we entered town. Everything was all about the school. Great experience.  Your kid will know where home is when she gets there


So true,... funny how we think "we" know what's going to happen and what really happens along the way  as I always told everyone else, we're just along for the ride, it's their journey and it really does work the way it's supposed to, it really has been an incredible journey...and sure goes way too fast!


----------



## Dubs

Looking for some feedback on my DD's current scenario and not sure what/if we should be doing anything differently...  She has interest from a good 8-10 D1 programs, with 3 that are actively recruiting her (no offers yet).  One of the 3 that is actively recruiting her is in her top 5 schools and they have made a significant impression on her.  We are doing what we can to get her exposure to other schools in order to provide her with some experience and also give her something to weigh against this specific school so she can make informed decisions when the time comes.  I guess my question is... What should we be doing to leverage the current recruiting situation in order to push the process along outside of our scheduled showcases this Spring and Summer?  Appreciate any words of wisdom...


----------



## beachbum

Dubs said:


> Looking for some feedback on my DD's current scenario and not sure what/if we should be doing anything differently...  She has interest from a good 8-10 D1 programs, with 3 that are actively recruiting her (no offers yet).  One of the 3 that is actively recruiting her is in her top 5 schools and they have made a significant impression on her.  We are doing what we can to get her exposure to other schools in order to provide her with some experience and also give her something to weigh against this specific school so she can make informed decisions when the time comes.  I guess my question is... What should we be doing to leverage the current recruiting situation in order to push the process along outside of our scheduled showcases this Spring and Summer?  Appreciate any words of wisdom...


Fairly opened ended question:  Don't know what year your daughter is which is fairly important.  The top tier players (national pool players)will be recruited and offered and verbally committed generally 8th grade through 10th grade.  The rest will be recruited and offered from 10th grade to senior year with the bulk committing their junior year. So a lot depends on where your DD is currently.
If she is in the first tier,  they will start making offers and at some point they will set a timeframe.  That time frame will depend on what stage in the process that your are and they are.  It will not be open ended as they need to move on to other recruits so they don't lose them.  If she is in the second tier you should probably set a timeframe if they haven't already asked that question.  Time frame needs to be realistic based on ability and offer expectations.  That should help push the offers toward that time frame.  Once one offer comes through that generally helps to push the others to make offers if they are truly interested. FYI, don't ever lie about offers as the coaches and clubs talk and will find out.  Once and offer comes you can let the others know that she has an offer, be honest but not specific.  Hopefully that helps some.


----------



## Dubs

beachbum said:


> Fairly opened ended question:  Don't know what year your daughter is which is fairly important.  The top tier players (national pool players)will be recruited and offered and verbally committed generally 8th grade through 10th grade.  The rest will be recruited and offered from 10th grade to senior year with the bulk committing their junior year. So a lot depends on where your DD is currently.
> If she is in the first tier,  they will start making offers and at some point they will set a timeframe.  That time frame will depend on what stage in the process that your are and they are.  It will not be open ended as they need to move on to other recruits so they don't lose them.  If she is in the second tier you should probably set a timeframe if they haven't already asked that question.  Time frame needs to be realistic based on ability and offer expectations.  That should help push the offers toward that time frame.  Once one offer comes through that generally helps to push the others to make offers if they are truly interested. FYI, don't ever lie about offers as the coaches and clubs talk and will find out.  Once and offer comes you can let the others know that she has an offer, be honest but not specific.  Hopefully that helps some.


Thank you for the response.  DD is an 03 and not in the National team pool yet, but has been invited to just about everything else.  Hopefully that changes in the coming months.  The one school I'm talking about said as much when we met with them, in terms of an offer.  They said that an offer will be coming.  However, they weren't specific about exactly when, but said that when it comes we would have roughly 2 weeks to decide.  My sense is that it will come toward the end of this season and hence our need to kind of understand what we should be doing between now and then.  Hope that makes sense...


----------



## beachbum

Dubs said:


> Thank you for the response.  DD is an 03 and not in the National team pool yet, but has been invited to just about everything else.  Hopefully that changes in the coming months.  The one school I'm talking about said as much when we met with them, in terms of an offer.  They said that an offer will be coming.  However, they weren't specific about exactly when, but said that when it comes we would have roughly 2 weeks to decide.  My sense is that it will come toward the end of this season and hence our need to kind of understand what we should be doing between now and then.  Hope that makes sense...


So she is a 2021?  If you want to have your daughter commit this early you probably need to get in front of this and start letting the other colleges know what your time frame is (after the season is over, before school starts next fall, what ever that time frame is and also let them know that if something knocks her socks off it could be sooner).  Ideally, you want all the offers to come in  fairly close together so that she has choices.  Some kids know where they want to go and if they get that opportunity they jump at it regardless if it is the best offer.  Others don't and it becomes a matter of fit for the player and maybe what the offer is.  Bottom line, would that school be the choice of the student/player if soccer where taken out of the picture.  Every journey is a little different, enjoy the trip.  By the end it was a job for my daughter and our family and she was glad to be done by the end.  She did commit during here freshman year.


----------



## outside!

beachbum said:


> By the end it was a job for my daughter and our family and she was glad to be done by the end.  She did commit during here freshman year.


Good feedback beachbum. Does the above quote refer to the recruitment process, or her soccer career?


----------



## Dubs

beachbum said:


> So she is a 2021?  If you want to have your daughter commit this early you probably need to get in front of this and start letting the other colleges know what your time frame is (after the season is over, before school starts next fall, what ever that time frame is and also let them know that if something knocks her socks off it could be sooner).  Ideally, you want all the offers to come in  fairly close together so that she has choices.  Some kids know where they want to go and if they get that opportunity they jump at it regardless if it is the best offer.  Others don't and it becomes a matter of fit for the player and maybe what the offer is.  Bottom line, would that school be the choice of the student/player if soccer where taken out of the picture.  Every journey is a little different, enjoy the trip.  By the end it was a job for my daughter and our family and she was glad to be done by the end.  She did commit during here freshman year.


She is a 2021.  What you say makes sense.  She seems to know what she wants, but we want her to do the due diligence part, in terms of getting exposed to other schools and that's really where my question is focused.  How do we create the situation you described, as far as getting the offers to come during the same timeframe?  When we go to showcases, do we need to do something specific with those other schools on her list to make sure they come see her?  Ultimately she needs to see the campuses, meet with the coaches and then make an informed decision from there...assuming, of course, they are interested in recruitig her like the other school that's near the top of her list.


----------



## beachbum

outside! said:


> Good feedback beachbum. Does the above quote refer to the recruitment process, or her soccer career?


Recruitment process


----------



## Dos Equis

Dubs said:


> She is a 2021.  How do we create the situation you described, as far as getting the offers to come during the same timeframe?


Before junior year, your club coach is her ambassador, advocate and essentially (though without the money talk) your agent.  Your coach should let other schools know she has or expects to receive an offer soon, and ask the others coaches what you need to do for them to come to a decision.  It may require them seeing her play again at a camp or a showcase, or it may require an informal campus visit.  It likely will involve arranging another phone call with each school so the coach can ask your daughter some more questions, and better understand her priorities and desires.

But other than a handful of pretty unique players, the process does not usually involve a lot of offers coming in at the same time, and you having the opportunity to weigh each one, in my experience.  Most players are choosing between a couple of schools at most, or deciding if the bird in the hand is worth risking by waiting for a dream school to come to a decision.


----------



## Dubs

Thank you for that note.  I was thinking her club coach could sort of reach out and create a little ground swell, but I've been reluctant to ask.  We have a couple showcases over the next 2 months, so hopefully the coaches my daughter reached out to will come see her play.  The getting on campus between now and July is the tough part.


----------



## espola

Dos Equis said:


> Before junior year, your club coach is her ambassador, advocate and essentially (though without the money talk) your agent.  Your coach should let other schools know she has or expects to receive an offer soon, and ask the others coaches what you need to do for them to come to a decision.  It may require them seeing her play again at a camp or a showcase, or it may require an informal campus visit.  It likely will involve arranging another phone call with each school so the coach can ask your daughter some more questions, and better understand her priorities and desires.
> 
> But other than a handful of pretty unique players, the process does not usually involve a lot of offers coming in at the same time, and you having the opportunity to weigh each one, in my experience.  Most players are choosing between a couple of schools at most, or deciding if the bird in the hand is worth risking by waiting for a dream school to come to a decision.


Some players are going to be recruited no matter what the parents do to help or hinder it, and some will never be recruited no matter what the parents do.  The value of recruiting services and the like is best felt by the ones in the middle, where the player does not have an established position and a publicity campaign may help bring the player's abilities to the attention of coaches who are looking to fill out  their rosters.


----------



## GoWest

espola said:


> Some players are going to be recruited no matter what the parents do to help or hinder it, and some will never be recruited no matter what the parents do.


This is one of the truest "recruiting" statements I've read here. Talent (or lack thereof) will always speak for itself.


----------



## outside!

Dubs said:


> Thank you for that note.  I was thinking her club coach could sort of reach out and create a little ground swell, but I've been reluctant to ask.  We have a couple showcases over the next 2 months, so hopefully the coaches my daughter reached out to will come see her play.  The getting on campus between now and July is the tough part.


Don't be reluctant to ask her coach or the club's college liaison (if they have one)? The club should be helping with the recruitment process.


----------



## Dubs

Appreciate the advice.  My daughter has a fairly short list now and I want to help her with making sure those schools are in play as soon as possible.


----------



## outside!

Dubs said:


> Appreciate the advice.  My daughter has a fairly short list now and I want to help her with making sure those schools are in play as soon as possible.


Good luck to her!


----------



## Dubs

Thank you very much.  Appreciate it.


----------



## surfrider

One key note
Club coaches can be hugely impactful but can at the same time be detrimental.  Does your kids coach have juice with college coaches?  Are they willing to step up?  Do they know what college coaches are looking for?  The big time clubs tend to be connected. The midline clubs not so much


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dos Equis said:


> Before junior year, your club coach is her ambassador, advocate and essentially (though without the money talk) your agent.  Your coach should let other schools know she has or expects to receive an offer soon, and ask the others coaches what you need to do for them to come to a decision.  It may require them seeing her play again at a camp or a showcase, or it may require an informal campus visit.  It likely will involve arranging another phone call with each school so the coach can ask your daughter some more questions, and better understand her priorities and desires.
> 
> But other than a handful of pretty unique players, the process does not usually involve a lot of offers coming in at the same time, and you having the opportunity to weigh each one, in my experience.  Most players are choosing between a couple of schools at most, or deciding if the bird in the hand is worth risking by waiting for a dream school to come to a decision.


Although DE and I disagree often he is spot on here.


----------



## Mystery Train

This question might be better as it's own thread, but there's lots of good advice here so ...

Curious to hear about anyone who had the experience of having college coaches (particularly targeted dream school) show up to your player's game for the first time, only to have said player or team lay an egg.  Happened to the best player on our team this weekend in Vegas and she was pretty crushed afterwards.  Usually the most dynamic player on the field, but just had one really rough day.  Her mom said she'd had a fever when she woke up the morning of the game, but of course, she battled through.  If you'd never seen her play, you might not have noticed, but all of us on our team knew she wasn't herself.  Do you bring that up to the recruiting coach?  Or does that just sound like making excuses?  If that was my first exposure to the player, I'd probably just move along to the next prospect based on that performance.  With so many good players out there, it feels sometimes like you might only get one shot to make your mark.


----------



## push_up

One of the huge disadvantages to the DA as it relates to college exposure.  If you lay and egg, they likely move along.  It is not like the ECNL when you know there is another showcase in a few months and/or your team will be playing in surf cup, etc.  

Also, since the kids know they only have the one chance to impress the nerves can get to some kids.  It is a ton of pressure.  Girls play best when they are having fun.  Hard to have fun and be stressed out at the same time.


----------



## MarkM

push_up said:


> One of the huge disadvantages to the DA as it relates to college exposure.  If you lay and egg, they likely move along.  It is not like the ECNL when you know there is another showcase in a few months and/or your team will be playing in surf cup, etc.
> 
> Also, since the kids know they only have the one chance to impress the nerves can get to some kids.  It is a ton of pressure.  Girls play best when they are having fun.  Hard to have fun and be stressed out at the same time.


There are multiple DA showcases.  DA has its own flight at Surf Cup.


----------



## espola

DA is real soccer because it uses FIFA sub rules (more or less), and college is a dead-end for prospective pro players because they don't, but the DA Showcases are set up as opportunities for college coaches to observe players.  

A little bit of DA schizophrenia there????


----------



## push_up

espola said:


> DA is real soccer because it uses FIFA sub rules (more or less), and college is a dead-end for prospective pro players because they don't, but the DA Showcases are set up as opportunities for college coaches to observe players.
> 
> A little bit of DA schizophrenia there????


.......the showcases are only scheduled to con (and make $$) koolaid drinking parents (like Mark) into believing the DA cares about college and their kid is being scouted for the national team, unicorns excluded.


----------



## Dos Equis

Mystery Train said:


> This question might be better as it's own thread, but there's lots of good advice here so ...
> 
> Curious to hear about anyone who had the experience of having college coaches (particularly targeted dream school) show up to your player's game for the first time, only to have said player or team lay an egg.  Happened to the best player on our team this weekend in Vegas and she was pretty crushed afterwards.  Usually the most dynamic player on the field, but just had one really rough day.  Her mom said she'd had a fever when she woke up the morning of the game, but of course, she battled through.  If you'd never seen her play, you might not have noticed, but all of us on our team knew she wasn't herself.  Do you bring that up to the recruiting coach?  Or does that just sound like making excuses?  If that was my first exposure to the player, I'd probably just move along to the next prospect based on that performance.  With so many good players out there, it feels sometimes like you might only get one shot to make your mark.


If the performance was poor, it is a setback. Might be wise for the club coach to reach out and follow up, support the player, see what their impressions was (do not assume to know), and then explain the performance, if necessary.  The approach may now require them going to the school, and not hoping the coach returns to watch another game.  Arrange an informal visit/tour, and find out if they host a clinic the player can attend.  Continue to pursue them, if it is important to her. 

First impressions are hard to change, and I would expect at least 2-3 great performances are needed to turn it around, so factor that into the recruiting timeline.  It may be other schools present themselves before they right the ship with this one. 

Personal experience -- if the school will not respond after multiple attempts on their part, it is time to move on.  There are a lot of geeat schools and great options, do not get fixated on one.


----------



## surfrider

First Impressions can linger, but can easily be overcome. I totally agree with getting the club coach involved. Especially if they already have open dialogue with that particular college coach. It will also give you a better idea of where your DD stands
Example.  My DDs linemate at Surf Cup new the coach of her #1 was coming. She saw him before the game and flat out puckered  our leading scorer and she flat out had the worst game of her career. No excuses, but the coach had done his diligence, our club coach routinely conversed, and that kid is now a team captain as a junior. Don’t give up on the dream. Coaches like to see kids fight through


----------



## Overlap

Mystery Train said:


> This question might be better as it's own thread, but there's lots of good advice here so ...
> 
> Curious to hear about anyone who had the experience of having college coaches (particularly targeted dream school) show up to your player's game for the first time, only to have said player or team lay an egg.  Happened to the best player on our team this weekend in Vegas and she was pretty crushed afterwards.  Usually the most dynamic player on the field, but just had one really rough day.  Her mom said she'd had a fever when she woke up the morning of the game, but of course, she battled through.  If you'd never seen her play, you might not have noticed, but all of us on our team knew she wasn't herself.  Do you bring that up to the recruiting coach?  Or does that just sound like making excuses?  If that was my first exposure to the player, I'd probably just move along to the next prospect based on that performance.  With so many good players out there, it feels sometimes like you might only get one shot to make your mark.


if it's a top choice of her's, she should reach out and send a "Thank you" for coming to see her play. Let said coach know she was coming down with a "bug" and would like said coach to see her again in National Cup. This is also where a good highlight video comes into play....and sometimes, things just happen for a reason, maybe a better school comes along!


----------



## Lambchop

RiverRat said:


> to each their own...it's just weather. boston, philly, and nyc have much to offer that ca can't.


Going back east for graduate school is great option.


----------



## Lambchop

beachbum said:


> Fairly opened ended question:  Don't know what year your daughter is which is fairly important.  The top tier players (national pool players)will be recruited and offered and verbally committed generally 8th grade through 10th grade.  The rest will be recruited and offered from 10th grade to senior year with the bulk committing their junior year. So a lot depends on where your DD is currently.
> If she is in the first tier,  they will start making offers and at some point they will set a timeframe.  That time frame will depend on what stage in the process that your are and they are.  It will not be open ended as they need to move on to other recruits so they don't lose them.  If she is in the second tier you should probably set a timeframe if they haven't already asked that question.  Time frame needs to be realistic based on ability and offer expectations.  That should help push the offers toward that time frame.  Once one offer comes through that generally helps to push the others to make offers if they are truly interested. FYI, don't ever lie about offers as the coaches and clubs talk and will find out.  Once and offer comes you can let the others know that she has an offer, be honest but not specific.  Hopefully that helps some.


Anyone have information about the April 26 NCAA meeting with new guidelines for recruitment? It is about to change from what we have been told.


----------



## Lambchop

push_up said:


> .......the showcases are only scheduled to con (and make $$) koolaid drinking parents (like Mark) into believing the DA cares about college and their kid is being scouted for the national team, unicorns excluded.


You are right, DA doesn't care but the college coaches sure do!


----------



## beachbum

Lambchop said:


> You are right, DA doesn't care but the college coaches sure do!


https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/committee-supports-revised-recruiting-calendar?sf179424997=1


----------



## beachbum

Texas and NC are screwed, they need to hurry to get those 6 graders verbally committed before this gets passed


----------



## outside!

beachbum said:


> https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/committee-supports-revised-recruiting-calendar?sf179424997=1


From the article,

"The Student-Athlete Experience Committee has approached its early recruiting review in multiple phases: It has tackled official and unofficial visits during the 2017-18 legislative cycle. It will next review communication and offers of aid portions during the 2018-19 cycle. In a third phase, the committee will review tryouts, evaluations, camps and clinics, and contacts."

It is good that the NCAA is addressing the early recruiting issue. Too bad they will continue to ignore soccer specific changes that need to be made.


----------



## Real Deal

Why can't they consider sophomore year?  Knowing what the situation is (options) prior to junior year is beneficial to the student-athlete.  It's going to be hard on those who don't end up with offers if it happens this late, don't you think?  It'd also require very quick decision making-- so not enough time to weigh the options.

Also just seems like it'd be a scramble on all ends to figure it our really fast, for the schools too.  The top D1s would be fine.  The others would really have to scramble after they figured out who was taken.  Maybe a compromise would be in order?


----------



## Dos Equis

beachbum said:


> https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/committee-supports-revised-recruiting-calendar?sf179424997=1


Thanks for this. It is in line with what I heard from several coaches, with the expectation that the next meeting will result in all recruiting communication (answering schedules calls from players, or talking to them on campus) will also be prohibited prior to junior year, including making verbal offers before then.


----------



## Dubs

What are the odds of the actually passing?  Does anyone know?  Are college coaches for or against this?


----------



## CopaMundial

Dos Equis said:


> Thanks for this. It is in line with what I heard from several coaches, with the expectation that the next meeting will result in all recruiting communication (answering schedules calls from players, or talking to them on campus) will also be prohibited prior to junior year, including making verbal offers before then.


And another change to affect the 2002 age group. SMH!!!! I agree this needs to take place, but man...these kids in '02 age just can't catch a break. If you have an '02 not verbally committed, then I guess they are going to have to wait till Sept 1 to find out anything, because most of these kids are doing ID camps and building relationships with coaches and attending showcases in Phoenix and NJ, as well as hoping to make playoff dates, etc. I'm on the fence here. Could be good, could be bad. Overall, needs to happen, just not sure how it will all be implemented and what the issues that may or may not arise.


----------



## Multi Sport

Real Deal said:


> Why can't they consider sophomore year?  Knowing what the situation is (options) prior to junior year is beneficial to the student-athlete.  It's going to be hard on those who don't end up with offers if it happens this late, don't you think?  It'd also require very quick decision making-- so not enough time to weigh the options.
> 
> Also just seems like it'd be a scramble on all ends to figure it our really fast, for the schools too.  The top D1s would be fine.  The others would really have to scramble after they figured out who was taken.  Maybe a compromise would be in order?


I think this gives you and the schools more time, not less, time. As far as time to weigh your options... I think if you are prepared enough you will probably already know the direction your kid is leaning.


----------



## CopaMundial

Multi Sport said:


> I think this gives you and the schools more time, not less, time. As far as time to weigh your options... I think if you are prepared enough you will probably already know the direction your kid is leaning.


That's sort of the thought process we are thinking as of now. All the change just has been so frustrating for this age group. I hope we are right and it is more time. My DD is barely confident in the schools she has selected and has even entertained a few she wasn't thinking of. A lot changed from 14 to 16. A lot!


----------



## CopaMundial

CopaMundial said:


> That's sort of the thought process we are thinking as of now. All the change just has been so frustrating for this age group. I hope we are right and it is more time. My DD is barely confident in the schools she has selected and has even entertained a few she wasn't thinking of. A lot changed from 14 to 16. A lot!


Didn't mean barely confident...meant VERY confident. The thought process of a freshman is vastly different than a Junior.


----------



## Dos Equis

CopaMundial said:


> That's sort of the thought process we are thinking as of now. All the change just has been so frustrating for this age group. I hope we are right and it is more time. My DD is barely confident in the schools she has selected and has even entertained a few she wasn't thinking of. A lot changed from 14 to 16. A lot!


Their priorities change.  Their bodies change.  Their confidence changes.  They mature.

Keep your minds and options open.  It takes a very unique 14, or 15 year-old to understand the choice they are making prior to junior year.  Yes, some are ready to decide, but the transfer rates and number of girls who stop playing women's soccer would suggest that too may are not.

Even under the current system, there are still spots junior year at most schools.  There are even schools needing to fill spots senior year due to de-commits, academic performance issues, and transfers.  That includes the power 5 conferences.

The proposed changes, in my opinion, are in the best interests of everyone.


----------



## CopaMundial

Dos Equis said:


> Their priorities change.  Their bodies change.  Their confidence changes.  They mature.
> 
> Keep your minds and options open.  It takes a very unique 14, or 15 year-old to understand the choice they are making prior to junior year.  Yes, some are ready to decide, but the transfer rates and number of girls who stop playing women's soccer would suggest that too may are not.
> 
> Even under the current system, there are still spots junior year at most schools.  There are even schools needing to fill spots senior year due to de-commits, academic performance issues, and transfers.  That includes the power 5 conferences.
> 
> The proposed changes, in my opinion, are in the best interests of everyone.


It's good to hear from those that have been there. My DD is entering her junior year. Feeling good about choices, but still nervous and wanting to visit a few more schools and areas. Never would she have thought of these things when she was 14. At 13-14, she thought UCLA and UNC were king. Now she hates suburban schools, not offense. LOL! But kids just start to know more of what they want in their college experience and what is comfortable and exciting. They think about their education and future.  It's far more than the pitch and she knows that now. I think this is a good thing. You're right. It's good to slow this down a bit. We remain positive. We just want her to find the right home and have a great experience.


----------



## Lambchop

Dubs said:


> She is a 2021.  What you say makes sense.  She seems to know what she wants, but we want her to do the due diligence part, in terms of getting exposed to other schools and that's really where my question is focused.  How do we create the situation you described, as far as getting the offers to come during the same timeframe?  When we go to showcases, do we need to do something specific with those other schools on her list to make sure they come see her?  Ultimately she needs to see the campuses, meet with the coaches and then make an informed decision from there...assuming, of course, they are interested in recruitig her like the other school that's near the top of her list.





CopaMundial said:


> It's good to hear from those that have been there. My DD is entering her junior year. Feeling good about choices, but still nervous and wanting to visit a few more schools and areas. Never would she have thought of these things when she was 14. At 13-14, she thought UCLA and UNC were king. Now she hates suburban schools, not offense. LOL! But kids just start to know more of what they want in their college experience and what is comfortable and exciting. They think about their education and future.  It's far more than the pitch and she knows that now. I think this is a good thing. You're right. It's good to slow this down a bit. We remain positive. We just want her to find the right home and have a great experience.


Some concern about the amount of time players will have to make their decision and visit schools that make offers. Yes they can visit schools before junior year and decide which academic institutions will be a good fit but won't be able to talk to coaches to understand their program.   Schools will be under pressure to get answers as well.  Another change, it seems the 02, 03 players have been hit pretty hard.


----------



## Multi Sport

CopaMundial said:


> That's sort of the thought process we are thinking as of now. All the change just has been so frustrating for this age group. I hope we are right and it is more time. My DD is barely confident in the schools she has selected and has even entertained a few she wasn't thinking of. A lot changed from 14 to 16. A lot!


Does your daughter know what she wants to major in yet? If she does then she is ahead of the game and she can really focus in on what schools fit her the best.


----------



## Multi Sport

Lambchop said:


> Some concern about the amount of time players will have to make their decision and visit schools that make offers. Yes they can visit schools before junior year and decide which academic institutions will be a good fit but won't be able to talk to coaches to understand their program.   Schools will be under pressure to get answers as well.  Another change, it seems the 02, 03 players have been hit pretty hard.


My daughter learned more about the coach and program by talking with the players and since there are no, at least at this time, restrictions on talking to players that will probably be an avenue to explore.


----------



## CopaMundial

Multi Sport said:


> Does your daughter know what she wants to major in yet? If she does then she is ahead of the game and she can really focus in on what schools fit her the best.


Yes. Very much knows what she wants to major in and what schools have the better programs for her major, which also tells her what cities are best as well. But if you had asked her this a year or two ago, she would have had NO idea. She was completely torn and all over the board. Like I said, a lot happened from 13/14 to 16, and I'm sure more maturity from now to 18.


----------



## CopaMundial

Multi Sport said:


> My daughter learned more about the coach and program by talking with the players and since there are no, at least at this time, restrictions on talking to players that will probably be an avenue to explore.


My DD is headed back east this month, and will have time with some players at a college that she is interested in. I'm sure the players will have general talk and stuff, but is there any specific questions that you might suggest she ask?  Anything that maybe most prospective players don't think to ask, but should?


----------



## Multi Sport

CopaMundial said:


> Yes. Very much knows what she wants to major in and what schools have the better programs for her major, which also tells her what cities are best as well. But if you had asked her this a year or two ago, she would have had NO idea. She was completely torn and all over the board. Like I said, a lot happened from 13/14 to 16, and I'm sure more maturity from now to 18.


I think girls in general get their act together sooner then boys. My 15 year old is still undecided but thinks he wants to be an architect of some sort. He will probably follow in his brothers footsteps but when he heard what his broher had to go through (sleep deprivation, no social life) he wasn't too happy. I laughed and reminded him that it would be harder for him because he wants to play soccer as well.


----------



## Multi Sport

CopaMundial said:


> My DD is headed back east this month, and will have time with some players at a college that she is interested in. I'm sure the players will have general talk and stuff, but is there any specific questions that you might suggest she ask?  Anything that maybe most prospective players don't think to ask, but should?


The one thing my daughter learned real quick was the coach liked to train early in the morning before school started. So if your daughter is not a morning person she might be bummed to be getting up at 5 AM every morning. 

I would recommend your daughter talk to as many different players as she can. A bench player might say the coach has his favorites and never gives them a chance while a starter will tell her that if you bust your butt in practice the coach will play you.

Does the coach play underclassmen? Most schools have a reserve team that play other reserve teams so ask about that.


----------



## beachbum

Dubs said:


> What are the odds of the actually passing?  Does anyone know?  Are college coaches for or against this?


When my daughter was going through this process and we did campus visits, I asked almost every coach a couple of general questions.  Let me preface that i did not like my daughter having the pressure of deciding to commit her freshman year in high school(not many 8th and 9th graders have a grasp on this stuff).  It was very flattering and ego boasting for her that she was being recruited that early, but once the offers started coming the pressure mounted throughout the year.  We knew at some point they would put a time limits on her offers.   Question one, what do you think about recruiting girls in 8th and 9th grade.  Most if not all did not like it but it is what they had to do to keep up.  They didn't like it because the girls were not physically or emotionally mature and still changing.  One coach said they miss on about half the girls at that younger age.  He did say that the national team players have a higher success rate.  Question 2.  This is off the recruiting topic a little bit but the question was, what do you think of the Development Academy that is coming in?  Not one that i spoke to(small sample size) was in favor of this as of last year.  They knew that the federation didn't really care about the college recruitment process.  So aside from the fact that the federation doesn't cater to the college recruiting process, they now having two competing leagues, which would make their job more difficult.  They all said they would handle it, but didn't seem happy about it.
So in summary from what i have heard: it will pass, and most college coaches are for it.


----------



## Dubs

So, with the assumption that this does pass end of April, do coaches curb the current recruiting practices before that?  How does this affect girls that are being actively recruited now?


----------



## MakeAPlay

CopaMundial said:


> And another change to affect the 2002 age group. SMH!!!! I agree this needs to take place, but man...these kids in '02 age just can't catch a break. If you have an '02 not verbally committed, then I guess they are going to have to wait till Sept 1 to find out anything, because most of these kids are doing ID camps and building relationships with coaches and attending showcases in Phoenix and NJ, as well as hoping to make playoff dates, etc. I'm on the fence here. Could be good, could be bad. Overall, needs to happen, just not sure how it will all be implemented and what the issues that may or may not arise.


I wouldn't be concerned.  The NCAA only makes changes when they are threatened with legal action, a public outcry or when the commissioners of the Power 5 conferences come calling....  These rules don't benefit the Power 5 conference schools (although they do benefit the athletes) so they won't get approved.


----------



## MakeAPlay

CopaMundial said:


> That's sort of the thought process we are thinking as of now. All the change just has been so frustrating for this age group. I hope we are right and it is more time. My DD is barely confident in the schools she has selected and has even entertained a few she wasn't thinking of. A lot changed from 14 to 16. A lot!


And a lot more will change from 16 to 18.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dos Equis said:


> Their priorities change.  Their bodies change.  Their confidence changes.  They mature.
> 
> Keep your minds and options open.  It takes a very unique 14, or 15 year-old to understand the choice they are making prior to junior year.  Yes, some are ready to decide, but the transfer rates and number of girls who stop playing women's soccer would suggest that too may are not.
> 
> Even under the current system, there are still spots junior year at most schools.  There are even schools needing to fill spots senior year due to de-commits, academic performance issues, and transfers.  That includes the power 5 conferences.
> 
> The proposed changes, in my opinion, are in the best interests of everyone.


I agree that the changes are good for all involved (if they are adopted).  However, most of the top Power 5 schools don't have money senior year and many don't have it past early junior year.  For example, my kid's team already has 1o or 11 players committed for 2020 (the class that will be replacing her class which are sophomores) and they aren't a notoriously early recruiting school.


----------



## MakeAPlay

beachbum said:


> When my daughter was going through this process and we did campus visits, I asked almost every coach a couple of general questions.  Let me preface that i did not like my daughter having the pressure of deciding to commit her freshman year in high school(not many 8th and 9th graders have a grasp on this stuff).  It was very flattering and ego boasting for her that she was being recruited that early, but once the offers started coming the pressure mounted throughout the year.  We knew at some point they would put a time limits on her offers.   Question one, what do you think about recruiting girls in 8th and 9th grade.  Most if not all did not like it but it is what they had to do to keep up.  They didn't like it because the girls were not physically or emotionally mature and still changing.  One coach said they miss on about half the girls at that younger age.  He did say that the national team players have a higher success rate.  Question 2.  This is off the recruiting topic a little bit but the question was, what do you think of the Development Academy that is coming in?  Not one that i spoke to(small sample size) was in favor of this as of last year.  They knew that the federation didn't really care about the college recruitment process.  So aside from the fact that the federation doesn't cater to the college recruiting process, they now having two competing leagues, which would make their job more difficult.  They all said they would handle it, but didn't seem happy about it.
> So in summary from what i have heard: it will pass, and most college coaches are for it.


Being a YNT player doesn't predict success at more than a 60% or so rate.  And success is relative.  IMHO the eye test is best.  Players that have a high work rate, technical skill and some athletic ability are going to do well the majority of the time.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

MakeAPlay said:


> And a lot more will change from 16 to 18.


Bad to good or bad to worse? It seems my 02 went from really fast to really slow from u12 to u16, she is heading back to being fast again.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Sheriff Joe said:


> Bad to good or bad to worse? It seems my 02 went from really fast to really slow from u12 to u16, she is heading back to being fast again.


It is a fickle thing.  Girls can lose speed due to awkwardness and then regain it once they get used to their body again.  It is really hard to tell.  An open line of communication with your player and a healthy push never hurts.  Good luck to you and your player sir.


----------



## beachbum

Dubs said:


> So, with the assumption that this does pass end of April, do coaches curb the current recruiting practices before that?  How does this affect girls that are being actively recruited now?


I talked to 2  D1 coaches(one power 5, one not)  in the last week and they are trying to get 03's and 04's in for visits and committed before/if this gets approved, again small sample size


----------



## Dos Equis

MakeAPlay said:


> I agree that the changes are good for all involved (if they are adopted).  However, most of the top Power 5 schools don't have money senior year and many don't have it past early junior year.  For example, my kid's team already has 1o or 11 players committed for 2020 (the class that will be replacing her class which are sophomores) and they aren't a notoriously early recruiting school.


It is a great list of committed players, and that list of girls is responsible for a significant amount of  the stress that the '02 and '03 players in Socal are experiencing right now.  It would be interesting to take a screen shot of their Top Drawer 2020 list (it is up to 12 now) and compare it to the the UCLA signing day press release come February 2020.  

I am genuinely uncertain how to evaluate whether the proposed rules are or are not in the interest of the Power 5 conferences.  I know one active P5 coach who believes it will pass, and another outside the P5, but successful in recent years, who shared that belief.  I tend to look to other sports that recently implemented similar changes for guidance (Men's and Women's Lacrosse).  This FAQ also answers some questions about the impact on current recruits.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

MakeAPlay said:


> It is a fickle thing.  Girls can lose speed due to awkwardness and then regain it once they get used to their body again.  It is really hard to tell.  An open line of communication with your player and a healthy push never hurts.  Good luck to you and your player sir.


Thank you, the push is on.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dos Equis said:


> It is a great list of committed players, and that list of girls is responsible for a significant amount of  the stress that the '02 and '03 players in Socal are experiencing right now.  It would be interesting to take a screen shot of their Top Drawer 2020 list (it is up to 12 now) and compare it to the the UCLA signing day press release come February 2020.
> 
> I am genuinely uncertain how to evaluate whether the proposed rules are or are not in the interest of the Power 5 conferences.  I know one active P5 coach who believes it will pass, and another outside the P5, but successful in recent years, who shared that belief.  I tend to look to other sports that recently implemented similar changes for guidance (Men's and Women's Lacrosse).  This FAQ also answers some questions about the impact on current recruits.


I haven't seen them lose a commitment after it was announced yet (even Pugh showed up for a semester).  I don't know enough about the 2020 class to make any sort of judgement but I will say that it is Josh's last class and he has yet to disappoint me.  Thanks for the info and I also hope that the legislation passes for the good of the future young female athletes.


----------



## Dubs

Has anyone heard anything more on the recruiting rules change?  I heard that unofficial visits can be taken as of first week Sophomore year... Any truth to this?


----------



## SOCCERMINION

So will the NCAA  rule changes really make changes for the better?. What do you think?
1) No more ID camp visits by players 8-11th? ( I think parents will still be sign them up for the "Development" camps the college provides ages 8-11, the coaches will be able to see them play just not Officially be able to approach and have a "Recruiting Conversation" )
2) No more unofficial Visits by players 8-11th? ( I think these visits will just now be academic visits and current collage players will now be the escorts to talking to the visitors, again no official "Recruiting Conversation" )
3) No more verbal commits before Sept 1 Junior year ( Unofficially , but aren't Verbal commits unofficial anyway)
4) No more Collage Scouting at the 8-11 grade ( Ughm, year right)
5) No more Free Game tickets before Sept 1 ( That will do it , that the one change that is going to make a big difference.)
Don't get me wrong I'm all for change here, I just believe there should be more than what they proposed to really impact change in the system that is already geared for commits at 9th grade. Our "Kids" don't need that pressure and should have a lot more time to figure it all out for themselves.

“The more restrictive we can make the environment on the institutional side, the more beneficial the experience we offer student-athletes,” ~NCAA


----------



## espola

beachbum said:


> When my daughter was going through this process and we did campus visits, I asked almost every coach a couple of general questions.  Let me preface that i did not like my daughter having the pressure of deciding to commit her freshman year in high school(not many 8th and 9th graders have a grasp on this stuff).  It was very flattering and ego boasting for her that she was being recruited that early, but once the offers started coming the pressure mounted throughout the year.  We knew at some point they would put a time limits on her offers.   Question one, what do you think about recruiting girls in 8th and 9th grade.  Most if not all did not like it but it is what they had to do to keep up.  They didn't like it because the girls were not physically or emotionally mature and still changing.  One coach said they miss on about half the girls at that younger age.  He did say that the national team players have a higher success rate.  Question 2.  This is off the recruiting topic a little bit but the question was, what do you think of the Development Academy that is coming in?  Not one that i spoke to(small sample size) was in favor of this as of last year.  They knew that the federation didn't really care about the college recruitment process.  So aside from the fact that the federation doesn't cater to the college recruiting process, they now having two competing leagues, which would make their job more difficult.  They all said they would handle it, but didn't seem happy about it.
> So in summary from what i have heard: it will pass, and most college coaches are for it.


Making offers to 8th and 9th graders is a violation of NCAA rules.


----------



## beachbum

espola said:


> Making offers to 8th and 9th graders is a violation of NCAA rules.


So your saying verbal offers and commitments don't happen when girls are in 8th and 9th grade?


----------



## espola

beachbum said:


> So your saying verbal offers and commitments don't happen when girls are in 8th and 9th grade?


Verbal offers aren't worth the paper they aren't written on.  The reason the are "verbal" is because they are illegal.


----------



## Dos Equis

espola said:


> Making offers to 8th and 9th graders is a violation of NCAA rules.


Incorrect. NCAA does not recognize verbal offers. To them, they do not exist. Call it ostrich method, but current rules allow for a verbal at any time. It is non-binding and non-existent to them.


----------



## espola

Dos Equis said:


> Incorrect. NCAA does not recognize verbal offers. To them, they do not exist. Call it ostrich method, but current rules allow for a verbal at any time. It is non-binding and non-existent to them.


Interesting way to agree with me.


----------



## Dos Equis

espola said:


> Interesting way to agree with me.


Perhaps. But illegal would imply a violation. That is all I quibble with. It is a handshake that has no legal standing. It would only be illegal if the coach contacts the player in a way not allowed by the rules. The current rules are swiss cheese. The changes proposed would make this illegal.


----------



## espola

Dos Equis said:


> Perhaps. But illegal would imply a violation. That is all I quibble with. It is a handshake that has no legal standing. It would only be illegal if the coach contacts the player in a way not allowed by the rules. The current rules are swiss cheese. The changes proposed would make this illegal.


As I said...


----------



## Real Deal

SOCCERMINION said:


> So will the NCAA  rule changes really make changes for the better?. What do you think?
> 1) No more ID camp visits by players 8-11th? ( I think parents will still be sign them up for the "Development" camps the college provides ages 8-11, the coaches will be able to see them play just not Officially be able to approach and have a "Recruiting Conversation" )
> 2) No more unofficial Visits by players 8-11th? ( I think these visits will just now be academic visits and current collage players will now be the escorts to talking to the visitors, again no official "Recruiting Conversation" )
> 3) No more verbal commits before Sept 1 Junior year ( Unofficially , but aren't Verbal commits unofficial anyway)
> 4) No more Collage Scouting at the 8-11 grade ( Ughm, year right)
> 5) No more Free Game tickets before Sept 1 ( That will do it , that the one change that is going to make a big difference.)
> Don't get me wrong I'm all for change here, I just believe there should be more than what they proposed to really impact change in the system that is already geared for commits at 9th grade. Our "Kids" don't need that pressure and should have a lot more time to figure it all out for themselves.
> 
> “The more restrictive we can make the environment on the institutional side, the more beneficial the experience we offer student-athletes,” ~NCAA


Junior high was too early... But Junior year of high school just seems too late.  The players should be allowed to make their visits, get to know the coaches, and openly discuss their options during sophomore year. They have an INCREDIBLE amount of pressure on the Junior year with all the testing etc anyway-- the stress of an even quicker decision and the confusion of not knowing where they stand in regards to their sport will send a few more over the edge.   Plus, on the other side of the coin, if coaches "aren't allowed" to scout in 8-11th, when exactly are they to do it?  Senior year? Just doesn't seem realistic does it?  It only helps the players for the coaches to scout throughout soph year-- otherwise seems they'd have to rely on word of mouth/reputation even more-- and do we really want that?

So basically with this scenario, it all has to go the way of floppy hats and sunglasses, hush-hush convos with youth coaches out by the Norco porta-potties, stressful uncertainty for some kids, and for others, the ultimate teen-torture of not posting their "Unofficial" verbal commitment announcements for up to two years....  Joking aside, as you suggest Soccerminion, this just seems like somewhere in the murky middle of change and no change.


----------



## Fact

9th grade is too early to commit. I've seen plenty of kids entering high school thinking they are geniuses in math and science only to struggle in high school Chemistry and Physics. It is a wake up call for career choices and college majors. And I have also seen kids go in the reverse direction falling in love with a class such as Biology, Computer Sciene or Political Science.  Until a person knows what general area they would like to major in, it is not advisable to pick a college that might not have a major you're interested in pursuing.  Some people make the wrong assumption that schools like Cal and UCLA have every major and they do not.  Other schools like Oregon don't even have engineering at all.  Kids need time to develop interests before committing.

Beginning of 11th grade is an optimal time to commit.  As said above the pressure of school is a lot during this year so removing the soccer burden would be a plus. Also if a kid commits to an Ivy and they need a certain test score to bump up their merit scholarship, they can focus on that goal.


----------



## Real Deal

Fact said:


> 9th grade is too early to commit. I've seen plenty of kids entering high school thinking they are geniuses in math and science only to struggle in high school Chemistry and Physics. It is a wake up call for career choices and college majors. And I have also seen kids go in the reverse direction falling in love with a class such as Biology, Computer Sciene or Political Science.  Until a person knows what general area they would like to major in, it is not advisable to pick a college that might not have a major you're interested in pursuing.  Some people make the wrong assumption that schools like Cal and UCLA have every major and they do not.  Other schools like Oregon don't even have engineering at all.  Kids need time to develop interests before committing.
> 
> Beginning of 11th grade is an optimal time to commit.  As said above the pressure of school is a lot during this year so removing the soccer burden would be a plus. Also if a kid commits to an Ivy and they need a certain test score to bump up their merit scholarship, they can focus on that goal.


Sophomore year is 10th grade.  Much easier to know your SAT/grade requirements for an Ivy if you know you are going to one when you are in your sophomore year.

Frankly Im not trying to be argumentative.  Actually committing Junior year is ok (isn't that basically how it is now anyway?).  I just think they should be able to explore their options, talk to coaches, go on unofficials, _know where they stand _and fit in and what will be necessary to achieve admittance prior to Junior year if that is when they are to decide. Then they know the benchmarks they have to hit to be successful (as in grades and test scores). In other words, start the process in early Sophomore year (10th grade).


----------



## Dubs

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but is the legislation set on making unofficial visits start of Junior year?  I read somewhere that it was Sophomore year.  If it is indeed Sophomore, it would make more sense to me, with official visits starting Junior year.  Still unclear how this will shake out.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

committing in Sept/Oct is the best time to commit.   Why?

1) The junior (hardest year) is just getting started
2) the should already have taken the ACT or SAT late in the Sophomore year or in June.  
3) they are older

committing in 8-10th grade is ridiculous for most.  So if you commit to Stanford but by the time you reach junior year you realize you gpa is only 3.5 and Sat scores are 1200.  You really think you will be bale to compete against other students who are near perfect and not playing soccer?


----------



## Real Deal

Why


eastbaysoccer said:


> committing in Sept/Oct is the best time to commit.   Why?
> 
> 1) The junior (hardest year) is just getting started
> 2) the should already have taken the ACT or SAT late in the Sophomore year or in June.
> 3) they are older
> 
> committing in 8-10th grade is ridiculous for most.  So if you commit to Stanford but by the time you reach junior year you realize you gpa is only 3.5 and Sat scores are 1200.  You really think you will be bale to compete against other students who are near perfect and not playing soccer?


Why is it ridiculous to commit in 10th, or even 9th, grade (verbally as the rules are now that is)? It is liberating to commit. Unless it is Stanford or maybe an Ivy, you will not have this problem as a student athlete ^
If you are committing for athletics, you are not competing academically against the general population in any case at all.


----------



## espola

Real Deal said:


> Why
> 
> 
> Why is it ridiculous to commit in 10th, or even 9th, grade? It is liberating to commit. Unless it is Stanford or maybe an Ivy, you will not have this problem as a student athlete ^
> If you are committing for athletics, you are not competing academically against the general population in any case at all.


Once you get into class you will be.


----------



## Real Deal

espola said:


> Once you get into class you will be.


Yes, well, you need to make your choices wisely and be realistic... No matter when you choose.  That has nothing to do with which grade you are recruited and when you commit.


----------



## espola

Real Deal said:


> Yes, well, you need to make your choices wisely and be realistic... No matter when you choose.  That has nothing to do with which grade you are recruited and when you commit.


Sometimes you need to look at things from the other side.  My daughter, who was not recruited at all for her athletic ability, ended up being a calculus tutor for student-athletes who needed help to stay eligible, paid by the athletic department.


----------



## Real Deal

espola said:


> Sometimes you need to look at things from the other side.  My daughter, who was not recruited at all for her athletic ability, ended up being a calculus tutor for student-athletes who needed help to stay eligible, paid by the athletic department.


I was really only referring to getting admitted to the school in the first place.


----------



## espola

Real Deal said:


> I was really only referring to getting admitted to the school in the first place.


Her take on that was "I can't believe some of these people got in here" (she was waitlisted before she got in to her first choice).


----------



## Justafan

Real Deal said:


> Why
> 
> 
> Why is it ridiculous to commit in 10th, or even 9th, grade (verbally as the rules are now that is)? It is liberating to commit.


Because who the F knows where they really want to go/fit in/major/career at 9th or 10th grade?  Did you?  So many things can change between 9th and 11th or 12th grade.  The soccer recruiting paradigm is backwards and that’s why you see the excessively high transfer rates.

The girls with the most leverage, the unicorns, are the ones who have to pigeonhole themselves the earliest.  It should be the other way around, just as it is in football where many 5 stars don’t commit until signing day.  This assures you are older when you make your decision and have taken all of your official and unofficial visits so you can make the best decision for you up to that point.

When a top football recruit makes a choice at the very end, the school always has room for that player even if it means taking someone else’s offer or having another recruit grey-short.  Nick Saban is notorious for doing that.  

Are you telling me that if Mal Pugh waited until signing day to decide whatever school she chose wouldn’t make it happen?  Of course they would.  

I know that is not the current reality but it has always blown my mind that the 5 star soccer recruits, the ones with the most leverage, have to make a decision so early.

Another thing that blows my mind is that schools seem to have to honor offers they made to kids in the 9th grade when they have not continued to develop as projected and would not have offered the same kid at the 11th or 12th grade (especially if they think they have spotted a better player later on).  In football it happens all the time and there is very little blowback to a school that has cooled on a kid after making an early offer.  USC offered an alleged QB prodigy in the 8th grade (David Sills) and had no problem taking back that offer later on.  That kid ended up playing receiver in college.


----------



## beachbum

Justafan said:


> Because who the F knows where they really want to go/fit in/major/career at 9th or 10th grade?  Did you?  So many things can change between 9th and 11th or 12th grade.  The soccer recruiting paradigm is backwards and that’s why you see the excessively high transfer rates.
> 
> The girls with the most leverage, the unicorns, are the ones who have to pigeonhole themselves the earliest.  It should be the other way around, just as it is in football where many 5 stars don’t commit until signing day.  This assures you are older when you make your decision and have taken all of your official and unofficial visits so you can make the best decision for you up to that point.
> 
> When a top football recruit makes a choice at the very end, the school always has room for that player even if it means taking someone else’s offer or having another recruit grey-short.  Nick Saban is notorious for doing that.
> 
> Are you telling me that if Mal Pugh waited until signing day to decide whatever school she chose wouldn’t make it happen?  Of course they would.
> 
> I know that is not the current reality but it has always blown my mind that the 5 star soccer recruits, the ones with the most leverage, have to make a decision so early.
> 
> Another thing that blows my mind is that schools seem to have to honor offers they made to kids in the 9th grade when they have not continued to develop as projected and would not have offered the same kid at the 11th or 12th grade (especially if they think they have spotted a better player later on).  In football it happens all the time and there is very little blowback to a school that has cooled on a kid after making an early offer.  USC offered an alleged QB prodigy in the 8th grade (David Sills) and had no problem taking back that offer later on.  That kid ended up playing receiver in college.


The difference is that football and basketball are "head count" sports and scholarships can't be divided (full ride - 85 for football).  All other sports are "equivalency sports" where they can be divided and there are no restrictions on how many athletes can be on scholarship.  So when football or basketball scholarships are offered they are full no matter what, assuming they are available.  For soccer, because of the current system, the unicorns can get more scholarship dollars the earlier they commit because those dollars are more available the earlier they verbally commit.  If they wait those dollars may not be available.  Agree with your premise but not realistic with current environment.


----------



## Real Deal

Justafan said:


> Because who the F knows where they really want to go/fit in/major/career at 9th or 10th grade?  Did you?


I've stated before that I think sophomore year (10th) is the optimal time to start the process.  And honestly, I'd have to argue that they don't know much more about what they want in 11th grade than they do in 10th.  You are talking the difference between a few months.  And since you asked, I didn't declare my major until sophomore year _in college.  _If I had been lucky enough to have a verbal commit, with money, in sophomore year of _high school_, I would've been ecstatic. It takes so much pressure off.  For an athlete, for the ones who care, it allows them to focus more on their sport while also exploring what it is they want to do besides it in life.  With some exceptions (math genius, star debater, violin virtuoso), any major decision like choosing a college, for a 16,17 year old, is just taking a flyer.  Who knows if it'll work out?  Why not have them benefit from the hours and hours and hours of hard work put into their sport with a little relief from the tension of high school?  These kids are under constant pressure from the competitive environment of athletics.  Why can't they verbally commit in 10th grade?  This is the one break we can give them.

PS- it takes pressure off the parents to know the financial situation as well.


----------



## MakeAPlay

beachbum said:


> The difference is that football and basketball are "head count" sports and scholarships can't be divided (full ride - 85 for football).  All other sports are "equivalency sports" where they can be divided and there are no restrictions on how many athletes can be on scholarship.  So when football or basketball scholarships are offered they are full no matter what, assuming they are available.  For soccer, because of the current system, the unicorns can get more scholarship dollars the earlier they commit because those dollars are more available the earlier they verbally commit.  If they wait those dollars may not be available.  Agree with your premise but not realistic with current environment.


You are 100% correct.  There are very good players that decided late and got what money was left over and "promises" of more money down the road when it becomes available.  Stanford spends their money so far in advance that all-PAC 12 players transfer for their 5th year instead of paying 100% out of pocket!  I think that the system sucks and it is the NCAA and the coaches like Anson Dorrance's fault.  Even Mal Pugh committed early (Feb/March of her sophomore year).


----------



## espola

Real Deal said:


> I've stated before that I think sophomore year (10th) is the optimal time to start the process.  And honestly, I'd have to argue that they don't know much more about what they want in 11th grade than they do in 10th.  You are talking the difference between a few months.  And since you asked, I didn't declare my major until sophomore year _in college.  _If I had been lucky enough to have a verbal commit, with money, in sophomore year of _high school_, I would've been ecstatic. It takes so much pressure off.  For an athlete, for the ones who care, it allows them to focus more on their sport while also exploring what it is they want to do besides it in life.  With some exceptions (math genius, star debater, violin virtuoso), any major decision like choosing a college, for a 16,17 year old, is just taking a flyer.  Who knows if it'll work out?  Why not have them benefit from the hours and hours and hours of hard work put into their sport with a little relief from the tension of high school?  These kids are under constant pressure from the competitive environment of athletics.  Why can't they verbally commit in 10th grade?  This is the one break we can give them.
> 
> PS- it takes pressure off the parents to know the financial situation as well.


Commit with money in 10th grade is illegal under NCAA regs.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Real Deal said:


> I've stated before that I think sophomore year (10th) is the optimal time.  And honestly, I'd have to argue that they don't know much more about what they want in 11th grade than they do in 10th.  You are talking the difference between a few months.  And since you asked, I didn't declare my major until sophomore year _in college.  _If I had been lucky enough to have a verbal commit, with money, in sophomore year of _high school_, I would've been ecstatic. It takes so much pressure off.  For an athlete, for the ones who care, it allows them to focus more on their sport while also exploring what it is they want to do besides it in life.  With some exceptions (math genius, star debater, violin virtuoso), any major decision like choosing a college, for a 16,17 year old, is just taking a flyer.  Who knows if it'll work out?  Why not have them benefit from the hours and hours and hours of hard work put into their sport with a little relief from the tension of high school?  These kids are under constant pressure from the competitive environment of athletics.  Why can't they verbally commit in 10th grade?  This is the one break we can give them.
> 
> PS- it takes pressure off the parents to know the financial situation as well.


I agree.  My player committed as a sophomore and from that point on she focused on working on what her future coaches wanted from her.  It worked out.  She graduated in the top 10 in her graduating class academically and took classes that were transferable to her university which will help her to graduate as soon as her season is over her senior year.  Now I know that my player had a pretty unique situation (the is attending the school that she has loved since she knew what college was) but it was still a relief to her and us.


----------



## MakeAPlay

espola said:


> Commit with money in 10th grade is illegal under NCAA regs.


So is jay walking yet it is still done.


----------



## espola

MakeAPlay said:


> So is jay walking yet it is still done.


And people get tickets for it.


----------



## MakeAPlay

espola said:


> And people get tickets for it.


I believe you.  But I have never seen it.  And I have yet to meet someone that has.


----------



## Real Deal

espola said:


> And people get tickets for it.


It's called a verbal commit, Espola.  I hear they are giving those to 7th and 8th graders. No one actually signs anything until 11th.  I'd say just get rid of the middle school verbals and let them commit in 10th and up.


----------



## espola

Real Deal said:


> It's called a verbal commit, Espola.  I hear they are giving those to 7th and 8th graders. No one actually signs anything until 11th.  I'd say just get rid of the middle school verbals and let them all sign in 10th.


It's PR bullshit.


----------



## beachbum

Don't yell but what is the rule that you are referring to, I don't know it.  Verbal commitment and acceptance constitutes a contract, correct?  The colleges reinforce that contract when they ask for the players to post their commitment online and post it on any recruiting materials that are handed out by their club team.  My daughter has also been on campus's where they have put the offer on paper and although we were not allowed to take it with us we did take a picture of it.  From what i have gathered these verbal commitments/contracts are very rarely broken by the college's.  Do you have evidence to the contrary.  Am I naive?  If the conversation is recorded does that make it more binding.  I hear what your saying but to my knowledge it's more of a contract then what you are saying and would not think it is illegal, enlighten me.


----------



## beachbum

http://usatodayhss.com/2017/five-most-common-questions-about-verbal-commitments


----------



## full90

A coach can offer a scholarship "promise" at any point and a student-athlete can accept it. It's non binding on anyone's part, but it isn't illegal. Why do you keep saying it's illegal? It isn't. What IS illegal is coaches calling kids directly before their junior year, paying for them to come on visits, and the like. But offers and commitments are not illegal. 

The new rule proposal is ehhhh to me. Sept 1 is a terrible time (for coaches) to unleash the floodgates of recruiting. That's week 1 into the season or close to it, right? I'd agree with above that sophomore year is fine. I'd change contact and visits allowable after Jan 1 of sophomore year would be fine for all involved. And I would change that if you are on campus on your own dime, you can talk to the coaches. We were staying with family in a random city last summer and walked through the campus and met the soccer coaches...and our kid is young! Super nice to chat with them and for our kid to put some foundations and specifics under a nebulous dream of "play college soccer." 

We will see if it passes. These things only pass if it benefits the big 5 schools and jury is out for me if these changes help them.


----------



## espola

MakeAPlay said:


> I believe you.  But I have never seen it.  And I have yet to meet someone that has.


Are we still talking about jaywalking tickets?

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/opinion/those-nasty-jaywalking-tickets/article_a38171f6-3ce3-11e7-a62f-1bf7b44a20d2.html


----------



## Zerodenero

espola said:


> Are we still talking about jaywalking tickets?
> 
> http://www.ladowntownnews.com/opinion/those-nasty-jaywalking-tickets/article_a38171f6-3ce3-11e7-a62f-1bf7b44a20d2.html


Digging deep for that ...


----------



## espola

full90 said:


> A coach can offer a scholarship "promise" at any point and a student-athlete can accept it. It's non binding on anyone's part, but it isn't illegal. Why do you keep saying it's illegal? It isn't. What IS illegal is coaches calling kids directly before their junior year, paying for them to come on visits, and the like. But offers and commitments are not illegal.
> 
> The new rule proposal is ehhhh to me. Sept 1 is a terrible time (for coaches) to unleash the floodgates of recruiting. That's week 1 into the season or close to it, right? I'd agree with above that sophomore year is fine. I'd change contact and visits allowable after Jan 1 of sophomore year would be fine for all involved. And I would change that if you are on campus on your own dime, you can talk to the coaches. We were staying with family in a random city last summer and walked through the campus and met the soccer coaches...and our kid is young! Super nice to chat with them and for our kid to put some foundations and specifics under a nebulous dream of "play college soccer."
> 
> We will see if it passes. These things only pass if it benefits the big 5 schools and jury is out for me if these changes help them.


The NCAA was created to level the advantages the rich schools had.  The news stories about violation of recruiting, scholarship, and eligibility rules rarely involve small schools.


----------



## MakeAPlay

espola said:


> The NCAA was created to level the advantages the rich schools had.  The news stories about violation of recruiting, scholarship, and eligibility rules rarely involve small schools.


The rich schools (Poser 5 conferences) stuck it to the NCAA and demanded that they allow them to pay the true cost of attendance or they would pull out and form their own organization with their own rules.  I think that they should.  Now all the full ride athletes get an extra $1500-$2k a month for basic stuff like toiletries.  Personally I think that the NCAA is completely self serving and full of $hit.


----------



## outside!

MakeAPlay said:


> Personally I think that the NCAA is completely self serving and full of $hit.


Not to mention stuck in the past.


----------



## Dubs

I am told it WILL pass, however the specfics of exactly what passes I have no idea.  Totally agree about Sophomore year.


----------



## espola

MakeAPlay said:


> The rich schools (Poser 5 conferences) stuck it to the NCAA and demanded that they allow them to pay the true cost of attendance or they would pull out and form their own organization with their own rules.  I think that they should.  Now all the full ride athletes get an extra $1500-$2k a month for basic stuff like toiletries.  Personally I think that the NCAA is completely self serving and full of $hit.


It will be interesting to see how much comes out of the latest FBI investigation.


----------



## davin

Today, I heard it directly from a head coach of a major D1 woman's soccer program that the new verbal commitment rule is a done deal and going to be in effect at the end of this month. They can still lock up younger recruits until the end of April. After this month, no commitments can be made until September 1st of the recruit's Junior year in high school.


----------



## Real Deal

davin said:


> Today, I heard it directly from a head coach of a major D1 woman's soccer program that the new verbal commitment rule is a done deal and going to be in effect at the end of this month. They can still lock up younger recruits until the end of April. After this month, no commitments can be made until September 1st of the recruit's Junior year in high school.


That's a major bummer for the kiddos.  Is this just a rule for soccer or for all sports?

On the bright side, no real reason to start club soccer until 12 or 13 then.


----------



## espola

davin said:


> Today, I heard it directly from a head coach of a major D1 woman's soccer program that the new verbal commitment rule is a done deal and going to be in effect at the end of this month. They can still lock up younger recruits until the end of April. After this month, no commitments can be made until September 1st of the recruit's Junior year in high school.


"commitments" -- that's funny.


----------



## davin

Real Deal said:


> That's a major bummer for the kiddos.  Is this just a rule for soccer or for all sports?
> 
> On the bright side, no real reason to start club soccer until 12 or 13 then.


The discussion was around the women’s soccer program, so he only specifically spoke about the new rule as it relates to women’s soccer. He didn’t mention if it affected other sports, but I doubt it. If so, it  would’ve already been a prominent story on ESPN already, as it would have a major effect on the income generating sports.


----------



## Soccer43

so if a player is younger than junior year and having conversations with coaches they will need to get an agreement prior to April 30th or have to wait till Sept of Junior year to confirm anything?    Seem like coaches can still work around this just like they worked around recruiting 8th and 9th graders now.


----------



## Hank Walker

This is a great rule change and I really hope it's true. Yes, it will make the junior year more recruiting-hectic, but no child should be put in the position of "committing" to a college in 8th - 10th grades.  Too young, too many physical changes not yet developed, too much athletic-maturity still to happen. Colleges will be able to make a much more informed offer, and players will be closer to the player they might be than they would 2-3 years earlier.


----------



## Fact

If I had to pick a time, I would say the beginning of summer before Junior year is the optimal time.  That way, if there is any uncertainty or they don't get the offer they were expecting, the summer provides players with the opportunity to go to college camps and visit the college before the coaches get really busy with their season.


----------



## Real Deal

So, if true, wouldn't this make it pointless for U14-U16 to travel out of state to DA or ECNL College Showcases, or to participate in Events like Surf and Silverlakes since scouting and recruiting would not be allowed anyway?  That'd be interesting.


----------



## espola

Real Deal said:


> So, if true, wouldn't this make it pointless for U14-U16 to travel out of state to DA or ECNL College Showcases, or to participate in Events like Surf and Silverlakes since scouting and recruiting would not be allowed anyway?  That'd be interesting.


The coaches  can still come to watch and build up their lists of prospects.  There are also third-party operators like Top Drawer Soccer who would be busy.


----------



## davin

Real Deal said:


> So, if true, wouldn't this make it pointless for U14-U16 to travel out of state to DA or ECNL College Showcases, or to participate in Events like Surf and Silverlakes since scouting and recruiting would not be allowed anyway?  That'd be interesting.


Schools can and will still be scouting and evaluating younger players, even with the new rules. And to a limited extent, schools can still communicate with the younger recruits. Schools cannot have face to face contact with the younger players or initiate contact with them, but players are allowed to initiate contact with coaches via e-mail and even phone. Players can contact the coaches to notify them they are interested in their school/soccer program, let them know what showcase they will be playing in, which club team they play for, their showcase game schedule and if the school is interested they will come watch the player play.


----------



## Real Deal

davin said:


> Schools can and will still be scouting and evaluating younger players, even with the new rules. And to a limited extent, schools can still communicate with the younger recruits. Schools cannot have face to face contact with the younger players or initiate contact with them, but players are allowed to initiate contact with coaches via e-mail and even phone. Players can contact the coaches to notify them they are interested in their school/soccer program, let them know what showcase they will be playing in, which club team they play for, their showcase game schedule and if the school is interested they will come watch the player play.


But what exactly would be the point of scouting U14-15s under this scenario?  Why would the coaches want to scout kids they can't get to commit or even have a recruiting conversation with, even at an ID camp, for like 4 years?  They won't even have the time.  I'd guess they will need to be scrambling around to watch and finally meet face to face with all the juniors they can finally talk to and commit.
And why would a U14-15 want to spend the time and incur the expense to travel across the country for a showcase, and ask a coach to come watch, when they can't have a face to face and discuss the crucial issue of $$$$ for several years?

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing.  Just rather pointless to attend showcases for those age groups (U14-15) under the new rules.  In fact the idea of these showcases beginning later is growing on me as I write this...


----------



## MakeAPlay

Real Deal said:


> But what exactly would be the point of scouting U14-15s under this scenario?  Why would the coaches want to scout kids they can't get to commit or even have a recruiting conversation with, even at an ID camp, for like 4 years?  They won't even have the time.  I'd guess they will need to be scrambling around to watch and finally meet face to face with all the juniors they can finally talk to and commit.
> And why would a U14-15 want to spend the time and incur the expense to travel across the country for a showcase, and ask a coach to come watch, when they can't have a face to face and discuss the crucial issue of $$$$ for several years?
> 
> I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing.  Just rather pointless to attend showcases for those age groups (U14-15) under the new rules.  In fact the idea of these showcases beginning later is growing on me as I write this...


From my experience, especially on the higher end of the talent pool, this will not slow down the schools from scouting players at ODP events, league games and showcases.  My player currently attends the school that was number one on her list when she was 8 years old.  Some kids have a pretty good idea of what they want and/or have family connections that will override any "rules" that the NCAA comes up with.  As of right now a player can't officially accept a scholarship offer until they sign their name on their LOI (and the school can't talk about the recruit or confirm anything until then FYI).  

I just don't see what these changes are going to accomplish other than to make things more hectic for the middle to lower end of the D1 talent pool.  The top talent is still going to have their decisions locked in well before their junior year and even though it won't be "official" (sort of like now) it will be widely known.  The middle of the pack players that might have gotten locked in now are going to have to scramble even more and the lower end players (of the high end players by the way) aren't going to have any idea what is available until winter of their junior year!  I just am not sure how well thought out this was.  Personally I think that a coaches committee could come up with a better plan than any plan crafted by administrators.


----------



## Dubs

So what should the Freshman kid do that is considering options right now?  Should they commit by the end of the month to ensure they get maximum $$ or does this give them time to hold out?  That part is really unclear... Will there be money left for them their Junior year?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dubs said:


> So what should the Freshman kid do that is considering options right now?  Should they commit by the end of the month to ensure they get maximum $$ or does this give them time to hold out?  That part is really unclear... Will there be money left for them their Junior year?


Not sure other than have a very direct conversation with the coaches for the schools that she is interested in.


----------



## MakeAPlay

https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-player-profile/georgia-leb/pid-114289

Texas schools continuing to commit 8th graders.  It won't make a difference.  The PAC 12 is set to dominate for the next decade.


----------



## Dubs

They are not alone.  I'm sure it will be a mad dash for the rest of the month.  Agree on your comment about having that very direct conversation with the coaches.  Wish there was a much more sensible approach to all of this.


----------



## davin

The NCAA recruiting rule changes are now official. The new rules apply to all sports except football and basketball.

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/division-i-council-adopts-recruiting-legislation


----------



## Dubs

I just read this and it looks like contact via telephone, text and off campus contact are all still legal.  Looks like everything continues as is except official & unofficial visits.  Am I reading that correctly?


----------



## pitchplease

when do the new regulations go into effect? i read the article, but what constitutes the next school year? August, September, July?


----------



## CaliKlines

Dubs said:


> I just read this and it looks like contact via telephone, text and off campus contact are all still legal.  Looks like everything continues as is except official & unofficial visits.  Am I reading that correctly?


Yes. I was told that the Sept 1st visit requirement goes live at the end of this month. Changes regarding verbal commitments have been tabled for the time being. Very minor change...players/family can still visit the campus unofficially, but conversations/meetings with soccer staff are prohibited.


----------



## shales1002

CaliKlines said:


> Yes. I was told that the Sept 1st visit requirement goes live at the end of this month. Changes regarding verbal commitments have been tabled for the time being. Very minor change...players/family can still visit the campus unofficially, but conversations/meetings with soccer staff are prohibited.


Meeting at the camps or on campus are prohibited, but doesn't everything else still work the same? Seems like nothing much has changed. Players can still reach out to coach via email or calls.  Am I missing something?


----------



## full90

Per a soccer parent text chain I am in:
rule takes effect next Wednesday (april 25th).
Practically it means you can do an unofficial visit to a campus but cannot meet/talk to the coaches. So if you are on vacation and want to check out a campus you can, but can't go see the coaches. 
You can call coaches like always and they can offer you/you can commit
You can go to camps anytime but coaches can't specifically talk recruiting to your kid (unless they are a junior)

That's the 411 we got from a parent who was communicating with a college coach about it. 

We will see. I think the top kids will still be sought after early in high school and will still commit to lock in that money. I know the intent is to slow the process down but it's not very well thought out. Why allow kids to still call coaches but not allow on campus communication? If the rule specified NO CONTACT at all then that would make sense, or even NO FINANCIAL OFFERS before sept 1, then that makes sense...but there's so much wiggle room here. 

The coaches that cheat now (cough cough JS) will still cheat. 
Club coaches will now be brokers for kids passing messages such as "USC has a full ride for your DD when she's ready to commit" which sucks. 
Maybe it will be magical and slow things down but who knows. 
Coaches will need to be ready Sept 1 to contact who they want to bring on campus. 
Trying to think through other results of this. 

I know kids are rushing to get in visits this next week. And most top schools are done through this year's sophomores and even a lot of freshman so they might have some free time on their hands!


----------



## CaliKlines

shales1002 said:


> Meeting at the camps or on campus are prohibited, but doesn't everything else still work the same? Seems like nothing much has changed. Players can still reach out to coach via email or calls.  Am I missing something?


You are correct. Player initiated contact is still permitted. College coaches will still talk with club coaches as well.


----------



## full90

It's actually a bummer that they eliminated the on campus unofficial. Meeting with the coaches face to face seems an invaluable part of the process. Many of my friends'  DD were able to eliminate schools based on that unofficial, and also had schools they wouldn't have considered after getting to know the staff for an extended period of time. I am hopeful that kids wait to decide long enough to get those impressions and have a good sense of who they are committing to.


----------



## Lambchop

full90 said:


> It's actually a bummer that they eliminated the on campus unofficial. Meeting with the coaches face to face seems an invaluable part of the process. Many of my friends'  DD were able to eliminate schools based on that unofficial, and also had schools they wouldn't have considered after getting to know the staff for an extended period of time. I am hopeful that kids wait to decide long enough to get those impressions and have a good sense of who they are committing to.



The group that the new NCAA rule seems to affect the most will be the 03's. Many of the 03's have scrambled to commit in order to secure athletic money that might not be available by their junior year. With the exception of a couple of unicorns, the 04's have not committed, the 02's are finishing their sophomore year and will be ready to commit in Sept. and many of them already have offers.


----------



## Dubs

Totally agree.  Seems like too much power/responsibility in the club coaches hands.  I would like to think most will do the right thing with this power, but inevitably others will use the power in the wrong way.  This rule literally makes them an agent.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

The rule should extend to club coaches.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dubs said:


> Totally agree.  Seems like too much power/responsibility in the club coaches hands.  I would like to think most will do the right thing with this power, but inevitably others will use the power in the wrong way.  This rule literally makes them an agent.


If you can't trust your kid's coach they shouldn't be coaching your kid.  My kid's coach was amazing and still shows up to some of her college games even though he coaches boys academy teams now.


----------



## Dubs

MAP, What exactly should the coach be doing in this case?  Can you speak to specfics about how your kid's coach helped her through the process?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dubs said:


> MAP, What exactly should the coach be doing in this case?  Can you speak to specfics about how your kid's coach helped her through the process?


It should be an interaction between you, your player, her club coach and the coaches of the teams that she is interested in and that are interested in her.  In my player's case her club coach would act as the mouthpiece for her current college coaches.  Letting her know when to call.  Giving them feedback on her play when she is unable to get ahold of them due to timing/scheduling.  My player's coach was the first to confirm our belief that our player was in the upper pool of players in her graduating class even though she committed to her school over a year before she got her first YNT call up.  Our coach even spoke with the current U20 coach when she was the U19 coach at the Players Showcase and had her watch her play which lead to her inclusion in the program.  My players coach also had her play her college position even though there were plenty of times where she could have helped him win games by playing another position.  I appreciate so much that he put her personal development ahead of any other agenda and he so believed in my player and her potential at 12/13 years old that he pushed her to believe in and pursue her greatness.  She heard all these things her whole life from us but to hear it from someone as accomplished as him, and to see him hold her to such a high standard of expectations has only further fueled her drive to excel.

That's what a great coach did for my kid.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Dubs

Thank you for that.  It's great the coach was such an advocate for your daughter.  My kid has that to a degree, but not completely what you describe.  I don't know how often she is advocating for her, in terms of being proactive.  We'll see how it all plays out...


----------



## GoWest

Any insight on Florida State from a recruitment and player perspective? Mark seems genuine.


----------



## MakeAPlay

GoWest said:


> Any insight on Florida State from a recruitment and player perspective? Mark seems genuine.


I can only say a few things.  Look at how many international players they get and how many domestic players (mostly former or current YNT players) transfer after a year or two.  One of my daughter's friends who was a former teammate went there as a freshman and transferred after one year.  Out of all the other top programs they have by far the highest transfer rate.  Kids happily sit the bench at many top programs.  Kids that play leave Florida State.  I will leave it at that.


----------



## Pitch pop

From what I’ve seen and heard the new rule change hasn’t changed things all that much. I can’t speak for DA teams, but I know of a couple of ‘03 and ‘02 ECNL teams that have had multiple college coaches attend their practices and games since the rule went into effect. Sounds like there is still a great deal of interest in the younger groups.


----------



## Dubs

Nothing has changed other than the "unofficial visit".  They can't have that until Junior year, which is dumb, because they moved the "offiial visit" also to the Junior year.  Everything else for now is the same.  However, come August or thereabouts, they will rule on the contact rules (text, phone calls, etc...).  Until then same rules apply.


----------



## Toepoke

Dubs said:


> Nothing has changed other than the "unofficial visit".  They can't have that until Junior year, which is dumb, because they moved the "offiial visit" also to the Junior year....


Remember for D1 schools you are allowed only 5 official visits, one per school. So a Junior can do his or her homework on several schools through unofficial visits to see if that school is a fit for them. It gives the kids who have done their homework on their interested schools the option to take official visits their Junior year if they are prepared to make that decision instead of having to wait until their Senior year.


----------



## Dubs

Toepoke said:


> Remember for D1 schools you are allowed only 5 official visits, one per school. So a Junior can do his or her homework on several schools through unofficial visits to see if that school is a fit for them. It gives the kids who have done their homework on their interested schools the option to take official visits their Junior year if they are prepared to make that decision instead of having to wait until their Senior year.


For sure.  I get that part, but wouldn't it make more sense to have the ability to have these unofficial visits starting Sophomore year?  That way the homework could be done earlier and give ample time for that potential student athlete to make really informed decisions starting their Junior year instead of cramming everything in... That's just my view of it.


----------



## beachbum

full90 said:


> It's actually a bummer that they eliminated the on campus unofficial. Meeting with the coaches face to face seems an invaluable part of the process. Many of my friends'  DD were able to eliminate schools based on that unofficial, and also had schools they wouldn't have considered after getting to know the staff for an extended period of time. I am hopeful that kids wait to decide long enough to get those impressions and have a good sense of who they are committing to.


Does anyone have any common sense. My opinion below. 
1.  Unofficial visits should have been kept during their sophomore year.  This gives both the athlete and coach's a chance to get to know each other and make sure it's a good fit for both before the commitment period.  
2.  Commitments no verbal, only official signed commitments should be allowed at the beginning of your junior year, then everyone has clarity.  
3.  As far as communications keep as it is now.  Up until your junior year, players can contact coach's but coach's can't contact the players.
This seems to be common sense to me for both the athlete and the universities.  Let me know if i'm nuts


----------



## MakeAPlay

Even the top fully funded schools don't have the allocated resources to offer official visits to anything other than committed players so changing any of the visitation rules was dumb.

My kid's school went to the college Cup and they had several road trips where they had the entire team travel and that extra expense changed their spring travel plans.

You have to remember that at the end of the day this is women's soccer.


----------



## full90

The NCAA pays for all post season travel so UCLA wouldn't be out money for a College Cup run.

Yeah I don't think the people voting on this thought about the budget impact this will mean for schools. Cal is out of money...so will they really be able to add 20 official visits to their fall budget? That's a ton of money.  Something has to give.

Recruiting of young kids will still happen...even if coaches aren't contacting kids, they will still be constantly evaluating and establishing a pecking order of who they want. It's not like they will wait until Sept 1 of junior year to start recruiting that class.

We will see how these rules change things. My friend's 03 daughters who haven't committed (and who have offers) are all breathing a sigh of relief to have more time. I am sure some families want to get it done so who knows....


----------



## Toepoke

Dubs said:


> For sure.  I get that part, but wouldn't it make more sense to have the ability to have these unofficial visits starting Sophomore year?  That way the homework could be done earlier and give ample time for that potential student athlete to make really informed decisions starting their Junior year instead of cramming everything in... That's just my view of it.


I think we are agreeing but I didn't do a good job explaining my thoughts on doing the "homework" in regards to recruitment with the new rules. 
*9th & 10th graders:*
1. Research and/or visit schools  (w/o meeting anyone from the athletic dept) to see if the academics, environment, campus culture and teams style of play is a fit for them.
2. Initiate contact and establish a connection with coaches of interested schools via phone calls, emails, highlight videos, club coach or DOC.
3. Invite coaches to games, showcases and attend ID camps at the school or camps where the coach is present.
4. Follow the interested teams during the season so the phone calls and emails with the coach are personal and not generic.
*11th graders:*
1. Narrow choices to a list of schools based on the homework done during the previous 12-24 months.
2. Take your unofficial visits to establish face to face communication with coaches.
3. Invite coaches to games, showcases and attend ID camps at the school or camps where the coach is present.
4. Evaluate invites of official visits or scholarship offers if the opportunity presents itself.
*12th graders:*
1. Repeat what was done during 11th grade.

The rules are set so why not find a way to make it work for the player instead of hoping/wishing the rules were different. We started the recruiting process during my DD's 9th grade year and she committed to a D1 program for the class of 2019 last summer (she is currently a junior). She is an above average player but not an elite player who garnered YNT invites. We put in the work and followed the outline above and was fortunate enough for her to be offered an opportunity to continue her soccer career at a school she wants to attend.


----------



## MakeAPlay

full90 said:


> The NCAA pays for all post season travel so UCLA wouldn't be out money for a College Cup run.
> 
> Yeah I don't think the people voting on this thought about the budget impact this will mean for schools. Cal is out of money...so will they really be able to add 20 official visits to their fall budget? That's a ton of money.  Something has to give.
> 
> Recruiting of young kids will still happen...even if coaches aren't contacting kids, they will still be constantly evaluating and establishing a pecking order of who they want. It's not like they will wait until Sept 1 of junior year to start recruiting that class.
> 
> We will see how these rules change things. My friend's 03 daughters who haven't committed (and who have offers) are all breathing a sigh of relief to have more time. I am sure some families want to get it done so who knows....


I never said that they didn't have money for a college Cup run. I said that their spring travel plans were affected and I agree with the decision 100%.

Regarding offers, if my math is correct '03's are freshmen which is too early to decide on a college IMHO.  You have 1-3 semesters/quarters of high school and don't even know how it is going to turn out so even knowing what type of college you are going to want to go to 4 years in the future is guessing at best.  I think that sophomore or junior year is better but truth be told the best outcomes come when the decision is based upon the kid's overall fit for the school and that is best realized when the search process is thorough and pragmatic.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Zerodenero

Toepoke said:


> I think we are agreeing but I didn't do a good job explaining my thoughts on doing the "homework" in regards to recruitment with the new rules.
> *9th & 10th graders:*
> 1. Research and/or visit schools  (w/o meeting anyone from the athletic dept) to see if the academics, environment, campus culture and teams style of play is a fit for them.
> 2. Initiate contact and establish a connection with coaches of interested schools via phone calls, emails, highlight videos, club coach or DOC.
> 3. Invite coaches to games, showcases and attend ID camps at the school or camps where the coach is present.
> 4. Follow the interested teams during the season so the phone calls and emails with the coach are personal and not generic.
> *11th graders:*
> 1. Narrow choices to a list of schools based on the homework done during the previous 12-24 months.
> 2. Take your unofficial visits to establish face to face communication with coaches.
> 3. Invite coaches to games, showcases and attend ID camps at the school or camps where the coach is present.
> 4. Evaluate invites of official visits or scholarship offers if the opportunity presents itself.
> *12th graders:*
> 1. Repeat what was done during 11th grade.
> 
> The rules are set so why not find a way to make it work for the player instead of hoping/wishing the rules were different. We started the recruiting process during my DD's 9th grade year and she committed to a D1 program for the class of 2019 last summer (she is currently a junior). She is an above average player but not an elite player who garnered YNT invites. We put in the work and followed the outline above and was fortunate enough for her to be offered an opportunity to continue her soccer career at a school she wants to attend.


Toepoke- You are preaching the Truth right here!!


----------



## Zerodenero

MakeAPlay said:


> You have to remember that at the end of the day this is women's soccer.


Another Truth! ......There's always the should be, ought to be, too bad to be....but it is what it is, how are you (player/parent) going to navigate in the ever changing (_yet ironically the same_) girls youth soccer landscape.

As complex as this Soccer recruiting thing is or seams....the outline of success is pretty much summed in this Thread.

It was once oh, so elequently summed as this...."GET IN WHERE YOU FIT IN" - Tod Anthony Shaw (_aka, Too Short_)


----------



## Hank Walker

99 out of 100 9th and 10th graders have no idea what to look for in a college fit. Academic fit, cultural fit, geographic fit, financial fit, athletic fit? As a 9th grader? No way. Once they have a couple years of high school under their belt, then they should start thinking and researching what might be a good fit.


----------



## Zerodenero

Hank Walker said:


> 99 out of 100 9th and 10th graders have no idea what to look for in a college fit. Academic fit, cultural fit, geographic fit, financial fit, athletic fit? As a 9th grader? No way. Once they have a couple years of high school under their belt, then they should start thinking and researching what might be a good fit.



Hank......Partner, I'm afraid I must disagree. We're not dealing with Low Hanging fruit soccer players around these parts of the country. This is SoCal, highest concentration of soccer talent in the nation.

The discussion/dialogue/pondering ideas start in 8th...7th....6th....hell, when they start to crawl. It starts in the home, From you, from me, and NOT left to the seeing where the cards lay


----------



## CaliKlines

Hank Walker said:


> 99 out of 100 9th and 10th graders have no idea what to look for in a college fit. Academic fit, cultural fit, geographic fit, financial fit, athletic fit? As a 9th grader? No way. Once they have a couple years of high school under their belt, then they should start thinking and researching what might be a good fit.


I have to agree with you HW...almost 100% of 9th graders don't know the difference between Stanford or Samford. I have yet to meet a 5th grader that would give a damn about learning about colleges/universities. We took our player to Russia when she was 10 yrs old. All she remembers is the "circus building". (It's the Church of the Savior of Spilled Blood.)

	
	
		
		
	


	




When I asked my player what she wanted in a college, her answer was "cold weather". So we took her to unofficially visit a variety of schools to give her a foundation of understanding...We visited Washington University in St. Louis (small, private,academic D3), University of Illinois-Champaign (large public D1), Notre Dame (mid sized, private D1), and Northwestern (large, private D1). It gave her a good range, in addition to visiting some local schools. I strongly suggest exposing the student athlete to different types of schools, just so they have some idea of what a small private D3 is like, compared to a large public D1. Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Toepoke

Hank Walker said:


> 99 out of 100 9th and 10th graders have no idea what to look for in a college fit. Academic fit, cultural fit, geographic fit, financial fit, athletic fit? As a 9th grader? No way. Once they have a couple years of high school under their belt, then they should start thinking and researching what might be a good fit.


No where in my post did I say make a decision as a 9th or 10th grader as I agree that most kids that age don't know what to look for in a college. Some do but most do not. At least start the process during those years to get ideas into their head on what they may like. As ZD said it's up to the parents to educate them and you do that by keeping it simple. Big school vs small school; public vs private; faith based vs non-faith based; urban campus vs rural campus; high academic standards vs not so high standards; commuter school vs most students living on campus.... It's really not that difficult to provide them choices to discuss during the first 2 years of HS. Kids don't know what they don't know so take them to various types of campuses so they can see the difference. Don't allow the school to make the decision for them cause they offered a scholarship even though the school may not be a good fit for the kid. Provide the kid with as much information as possible beforehand so they can make an informed decision if a school does offer a scholarship. If you just let your child figure it out on their own and not help them with these decisions before their junior year then expect them to be playing catch up to kids who did do their homework. Parents are fooling themselves if they think coaches are not going to get commitments from players prior to their junior year. This new rule will just keep it from being publicized until their junior year.


----------



## Zerodenero

CaliKlines said:


> I have to agree with you HW...almost 100% of 9th graders don't know the difference between Stanford or Samford. I have yet to meet a 5th grader that would give a damn about learning about colleges/universities. We took our player to Russia when she was 10 yrs old. All she remembers is the "circus building". (It's the Church of the Savior of Spilled Blood.)
> .


Cali - I know you and a few of us old timers here have the Hatfield & McCoy thing going but dude... your flat out wrong....or not?

Question....You don't think the discussions  a kid hears in the home, between parents/kids/siblings, sets a tone, sets a dream, sets aspirations that can become an ethos towards excellence?

This is just another example of the difference in our views. It may also be the reason why some of the parents on this forum have DD's who are going to Stanford, Princeton and Yale....that process was a mindset, And I am without a doubt, 100% certain it starts WELL before the 9th grade.

You and I have done our job, our dd's have chosen their path. The real question is for parents who's kid is now in the process......which side of the road are you? .....How will you guide your kid?...and will you unconsciously put a limit as to what they can, and can't do??


----------



## Hank Walker

Toepoke said:


> No where in my post did I say make a decision as a 9th or 10th grader as I agree that most kids that age don't know what to look for in a college. Some do but most do not. At least start the process during those years to get ideas into their head on what they may like. As ZD said it's up to the parents to educate them and you do that by keeping it simple. Big school vs small school; public vs private; faith based vs non-faith based; urban campus vs rural campus; high academic standards vs not so high standards; commuter school vs most students living on campus.... It's really not that difficult to provide them choices to discuss during the first 2 years of HS. Kids don't know what they don't know so take them to various types of campuses so they can see the difference. Don't allow the school to make the decision for them cause they offered a scholarship even though the school may not be a good fit for the kid. Provide the kid with as much information as possible beforehand so they can make an informed decision if a school does offer a scholarship. If you just let your child figure it out on their own and not help them with these decisions before their junior year then expect them to be playing catch up to kids who did do their homework. Parents are fooling themselves if they think coaches are not going to get commitments from players prior to their junior year. This new rule will just keep it from being publicized until their junior year.


Toepoke, I pretty much agree with everything you wrote and I don't mean to suggest we shouldn't direct our kids and have them well prepared for when those recruiting discussions start. However, I don't want my kids even thinking about college while they are in 9th and 10th grade. Too young, too immature and too uninformed to understand the nuances of choosing a college. And I also agree with you that my philosophy of waiting longer does put my kids at risk of missing out on some scholarship opportunities, but I don't think my kids future should be dictated by a way-too-early feeding frenzy to grab scholarship money while it's still available. 

And to Zerodenero's point, I'm not saying that a family shouldn't have an academic plan and process that opens as many doors as possible for your kids at the end of high school. And yes, that process starts well before 9th grade but for me, it is a completely separate discussion from recruiting timelines.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Zerodenero said:


> Cali - I know you and a few of us old timers here have the Hatfield & McCoy thing going but dude... your flat out wrong....or not?
> 
> Question....You don't think the discussions  a kid hears in the home, between parents/kids/siblings, sets a tone, sets a dream, sets aspirations that can become an ethos towards excellence?
> 
> This is just another example of the difference in our views. It may also be the reason why some of the parents on this forum have DD's who are going to Stanford, Princeton and Yale....that process was a mindset, And I am without a doubt, 100% certain it starts WELL before the 9th grade.
> 
> You and I have done our job, our dd's have chosen their path. The real question is for parents who's kid is now in the process......which side of the road are you? .....How will you guide your kid?...and will you unconsciously put a limit as to what they can, and can't do??


ZD as always your words should be forum canon.  Good luck to you and your player!


----------



## MakeAPlay

CaliKlines said:


> I have to agree with you HW...almost 100% of 9th graders don't know the difference between Stanford or Samford.......Good luck to you and your player.


Maybe in your household this is true but that doesn't surprise me.  And don't be a Melania.  Get your own catchphrase.  LOL!!

That's pretty obvious right @Zerodenero ?


----------



## Dubs

As someone who is knee deep in the process and in the middle of everything you're debating, I will comment.  What i've learned so far is that the information on this forum (all of it) is very helpful as a backdrop for understanding the process and for helping our kids determine what might be the  best choice for them.  In my kids case, she is a Freshman, but has known for a long time she was going to be on the college athlete path.  We've been doing our best to show her different environments, but things have definitely accelerated with the interest levels from different schools and she believes she knows where she wants to be.  Luckily, that school is looking hard at her and she's hoping to commit there soon (before August when the next set of rules are implemented).  I honestly struggle with the feeling of being rushed and trying to ensure she gets everything she/we need... financials, soccer program, academics, etc...  This school checks all boxes for her, so as long as the financials work out, she will move forward with them.  Wish us luck!


----------



## Toepoke

Hank Walker said:


> ......However, I don't want my kids even thinking about college while they are in 9th and 10th grade. Too young, too immature and too uninformed to understand the nuances of choosing a college. And I also agree with you that my philosophy of waiting longer does put my kids at risk of missing out on some scholarship opportunities, but I don't think my kids future should be dictated by a way-too-early feeding frenzy to grab scholarship money while it's still available.
> 
> And to Zerodenero's point, I'm not saying that a family shouldn't have an academic plan and process that opens as many doors as possible for your kids at the end of high school. And yes, that process starts well before 9th grade but for me, it is a completely separate discussion from recruiting timelines.


I was part of the old forum when my DD was a Ulittle and I learned a lot from posters who's kids were older or already in college (MAP, ZD, Cali, IZ). The research process for us wasn't something that was time consuming or constant for 2 straight years. We avoided the feeding frenzy and feeling rushed to make a decision by discussing topics here and there when on vacation, at showcases, home watching college soccer on TV or when coaches showed interest via our coach after games. It sounds like your DD is a Ulittle or will be starting HS next year so I understand your thought process as I was there also. Enjoy the journey because it will be over sooner than you know it.


----------



## Dubs

Thanks for that.  She IS a Freshman, so everything is happening fast...


----------



## Real Deal

Hank Walker said:


> Toepoke, I pretty much agree with everything you wrote and I don't mean to suggest we shouldn't direct our kids and have them well prepared for when those recruiting discussions start. However, I don't want my kids even thinking about college while they are in 9th and 10th grade. Too young, too immature and too uninformed to understand the nuances of choosing a college. And I also agree with you that my philosophy of waiting longer does put my kids at risk of missing out on some scholarship opportunities, but I don't think my kids future should be dictated by a way-too-early feeding frenzy to grab scholarship money while it's still available.
> 
> And to Zerodenero's point, I'm not saying that a family shouldn't have an academic plan and process that opens as many doors as possible for your kids at the end of high school. And yes, that process starts well before 9th grade but for me, it is a completely separate discussion from recruiting timelines.


I don't understand.  As it is now, your child can _choose_ to wait to make a decision until junior year.  Someone esle's can choose freshman year if she is ready and has good offers.  Why not just make it a personal choice instead of a rule?

As I have stated before, if there must be a rule, I'd be hoping for allowing commits (verbal) in sophomore year instead of junior as I do feel that's the most realistic time frame and leaves plenty of opportunity for exploring options.


----------



## outside!

Real Deal said:


> I don't understand.  As it is now, your child can _choose_ to wait to make a decision until junior year.  Someone esle's can choose freshman year if she is ready and has good offers.  Why not just make it a personal choice instead of a rule?
> 
> As I have stated before, if there must be a rule, I'd be hoping for allowing commits (verbal) in sophomore year instead of junior as I do feel that's the most realistic time frame and leaves plenty of opportunity for exploring options.


DD committed during her sophomore year. She felt it was too early, but the timing is what it is when it comes to scholarship availability. Her college coach felt it was too early, but said they have to do what the other schools are doing to compete for players. I felt it was too early as DD really had no idea what she wanted to study at that time. The good news is she is very happy with her choice and is excited to start in the fall. 

When you have kids committing during freshman and sophomore years, the parents have to be very involved in helping make the decision. I think it would be better if the players were more mature and better able to guide the process themselves since it has such a huge impact on their future. I don't see any reason the entire process could not be moved to junior year with the exceptions of unofficial visits.


----------



## Hank Walker

Real Deal said:


> I don't understand.  As it is now, your child can _choose_ to wait to make a decision until junior year.  Someone esle's can choose freshman year if she is ready and has good offers.  Why not just make it a personal choice instead of a rule?
> 
> As I have stated before, if there must be a rule, I'd be hoping for allowing commits (verbal) in sophomore year instead of junior as I do feel that's the most realistic time frame and leaves plenty of opportunity for exploring options.


I don't feel it helps either side to commit early. Colleges would be better off if they didn't extend offers until seeing a more mature athletic body of work. Kids would be better off if they didn't have to grab quickly-diminishing scholarship money when they are 14 years old. The more time both sides have to get educated about their options and make an informed offer/decision, the better the chance that decision/offer turns out to be successful. And, because I'd like my kids to wait as long as possible to make that decision, it would be better for me if everyone had to wait just as long.


----------



## Real Deal

Hank Walker said:


> I don't feel it helps either side to commit early. Colleges would be better off if they didn't extend offers until seeing a more mature athletic body of work. Kids would be better off if they didn't have to grab quickly-diminishing scholarship money when they are 14 years old. The more time both sides have to get educated about their options and make an informed offer/decision, the better the chance that decision/offer turns out to be successful. And, because I'd like my kids to wait as long as possible to make that decision, it would be better for me if everyone had to wait just as long.


No point in really arguing since you probably don't have a kid in high school-- then you would know the pressures they face-- and also that a *sophomore *is 15/16, not 14.  you'd also know that the maturity level, physically and mentally, between a sophomore and a junior is minimal.  You'd know that all the testing is junior year and it is an extremely stressful time for kids so not the greatest to be flying around the country for unofficial visits.  Finally, you'd realize that, as a parent, the difference between a 25% scholarship and an 80% scholarship is huge, and you'd appreciate that extra year to plan financially when you knew exactly where your kid stood in their sophomore year _if _you were lucky enough to have that option.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Hank Walker said:


> I don't feel it helps either side to commit early. Colleges would be better off if they didn't extend offers until seeing a more mature athletic body of work. Kids would be better off if they didn't have to grab quickly-diminishing scholarship money when they are 14 years old. The more time both sides have to get educated about their options and make an informed offer/decision, the better the chance that decision/offer turns out to be successful. And, because I'd like my kids to wait as long as possible to make that decision, it would be better for me if everyone had to wait just as long.


I feel like my player's situation was different.  Both sides were in a first choice situation so nobody was settling.  She had opportunities with her 2nd and 3rd choice schools so it wasn't a situation where she had a gun to her head.  Committing early gave her current coaches 2 and a half years to direct her development.  They had time to prepare her for the programs style of play and it helped her seamlessly transition to the team and the school.  Her school had all of the players in her freshman class that weren't either in the Olympics or the 2016 U20 World Cup report in June for summer school and it has benefited all of them academically and athletically.  This process isn't a one size fits all situation.  There are many roads to Rome.  I think that flexibility is key.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## CaliKlines

Zerodenero said:


> Cali - I know you and a few of us old timers here have the Hatfield & McCoy thing going but dude... your flat out wrong....or not?


Actually Zero, you are entitled to *your* opinion, but basically it is my opinion that *you're* flat out wrong. (Hopefully you didn't neglect proper grammar when you were busy preparing your kids how to pick a college in 6th grade.)



Zerodenero said:


> Cali - I know you and a few of us old timers here have the Hatfield & McCoy thing going but dude... your flat out wrong....or not?
> 
> Question....You don't think the discussions  a kid hears in the home, between parents/kids/siblings, sets a tone, sets a dream, sets aspirations that can become an ethos towards excellence?
> 
> This is just another example of the difference in our views. It may also be the reason why some of the parents on this forum have DD's who are going to Stanford, Princeton and Yale....that process was a mindset, And I am without a doubt, 100% certain it starts WELL before the 9th grade.


To answer your question....yes, the conversations regarding college attendance when a child is growing up are definitely influential. But you seem to mis-understand the mindset of attending college and being able to adequately and knowledgeably understand the criteria to make the decision on which college to attend. Are you advocating that your 12/13/14 year old daughter understood the pros and cons of a large public university vs. small private institution because you had "discussions in your home with siblings"?

College attendance was never a option for my kids, as evidenced by the 529 accounts set up on their first birthday. College was always a priority, and, over the years, many visits were made to our alma maters, and other colleges for sporting events, plays, and other community events. They grew up in that environment, but that in no way made her ready to pick a school in her freshman year of high school. Maybe my kid is just stupid, but I don't think setting a tone/dream/aspiration makes them able to understand the difference between Stanford and Samford.



Zerodenero said:


> The discussion/dialogue/pondering ideas start in 8th...7th....6th....hell, when they start to crawl. It starts in the home, From you, from me, and NOT left to the seeing where the cards lay


Remember, you're the one saying to prepare your child in 6th grade to pick a college. My ill prepared daughter was too busy deciding what to watch between Lizzy McGuire or High School Musical...but that is because I'm a bad parent that "chose to see where the cards would fall". Excuse me if I didn't educate my player when she was 12 on the differences between urban/rural campus, geographical settings, majors offered, cultural considerations, and a plethora of other criteria necessary to make an informed college decision. Her decision to commit in early in her 10th grade year followed an accelerated program of campus visits, lists of pros/cons, and hours of reviews of academic majors offered at each institution. She elected to choose a campus that offered the largest catalog of available majors, so that she would have plenty of options when she was old and wise enough to fine tune her education specialty.

I tend to think that Hank has it right, compared to Zero...



Hank Walker said:


> And to Zerodenero's point, I'm not saying that a family shouldn't have an academic plan and process that opens as many doors as possible for your kids at the end of high school. And yes, that process starts well before 9th grade but for me, *it is a completely separate discussion from recruiting timelines*.


Good luck to you and your player!


----------



## gkrent

MakeAPlay said:


> Even the top fully funded schools don't have the allocated resources to offer official visits to anything other than committed players so changing any of the visitation rules was dumb.


One of my players went on *3* official visits without a commitment.


----------



## soccer661

MAP: "This process isn't a one size fits all situation. There are many roads to Rome. I think that flexibility is key."

VERY true Map-- guys, there is no really right or wrong way to do it-- every kid/parent/family is in a different situation...this hits the nail on the head. 
What worked for my kid, may not work for someone else's and vise versa...
Although I absolutely agree with Zero-- start researching sooner rather than later...time goes fast!!


----------



## Hank Walker

Real Deal said:


> No point in really arguing since you probably don't have a kid in high school-- then you would know the pressures they face-- and also that a *sophomore *is 15/16, not 14.  you'd also know that the maturity level, physically and mentally, between a sophomore and a junior is minimal.


I've been through the process already with one kid who is in college, I'm in the middle of it with a high school kid and have a middle school kid that will be going through the process. I do understand the pressure and demands and feel strongly that formal rules put in place to give both sides more time to make good decisions, would be best for everyone. However, I do agree with MAP that there are many roads to Rome and we all obviously will do what we think is best.


----------



## gkrent

Hank Walker said:


> However, I do agree with MAP that there are many roads to Rome and we all obviously will do what we think is best.


I'm living the many roads to Rome right now LOL!  Round 1 - Late D1 recruitment Round 2 - very early D1 recruitment Round 3 - D2/NAIA/JC recruitment!  All different animals!
Good Luck to all!  And make sure those kids get GOOD GRADES or else its not going to be easy unless they are YNT!!


----------



## Soccer43

It is helpful to remember that what players post on social media and what parents talk about is not always what ends up happening.  Our DD is starting to see the truth of that as one of her peers posted a commit to a top school many months ago and just this week now is posting a visit to another college with a much lower level soccer program.  Either the commit wasn't legit, the financials didn't work out, or grades weren't there.   If you have a great offer locked why are you looking at other colleges?  So much pressure for these girls and parents have to keep it in perspective.  A quality education and minimal debt is the key, when you are done with the four years most players move on to a regular job and life.


----------



## MakeAPlay

gkrent said:


> One of my players went on *3* official visits without a commitment.


In D1 soccer?


----------



## Zerodenero

CaliKlines said:


> Actually Zero, you are entitled to *your* opinion, but basically it is my opinion that *you're* flat out wrong. (Hopefully you didn't neglect proper grammar when you were busy preparing your kids how to pick a college in 6th grade.)
> 
> 
> 
> To answer your question....yes, the conversations regarding college attendance when a child is growing up are definitely influential. But you seem to mis-understand the mindset of attending college and being able to adequately and knowledgeably understand the criteria to make the decision on which college to attend. Are you advocating that your 12/13/14 year old daughter understood the pros and cons of a large public university vs. small private institution because you had "discussions in your home with siblings"?
> 
> College attendance was never a option for my kids, as evidenced by the 529 accounts set up on their first birthday. College was always a priority, and, over the years, many visits were made to our alma maters, and other colleges for sporting events, plays, and other community events. They grew up in that environment, but that in no way made her ready to pick a school in her freshman year of high school. Maybe my kid is just stupid, but I don't think setting a tone/dream/aspiration makes them able to understand the difference between Stanford and Samford.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, you're the one saying to prepare your child in 6th grade to pick a college. My ill prepared daughter was too busy deciding what to watch between Lizzy McGuire or High School Musical...but that is because I'm a bad parent that "chose to see where the cards would fall". Excuse me if I didn't educate my player when she was 12 on the differences between urban/rural campus, geographical settings, majors offered, cultural considerations, and a plethora of other criteria necessary to make an informed college decision. Her decision to commit in early in her 10th grade year followed an accelerated program of campus visits, lists of pros/cons, and hours of reviews of academic majors offered at each institution. She elected to choose a campus that offered the largest catalog of available majors, so that she would have plenty of options when she was old and wise enough to fine tune her education specialty.
> 
> I tend to think that Hank has it right, compared to Zero...
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck to you and your player!


Hatfield.....once again, another fantastic illustration that ya just can't get your head out of the weeds. Connect the dots dude!!...And the grammar correction - LOL.

I'm looking forward to another 4yrs of justifications, rationalizations, and excuses all while parading the pom-poms for you/yours.

Love you Cali


----------



## Ricky Fandango

Love watching the frat boys fight it out.
You people...


----------



## Zerodenero

Ricky Fandango said:


> Love watching the frat boys fight it out.
> You people...


I must admit, It's been an unintended joy of weekend soccer...for years.

Yours Truly

McCoy


----------



## Dubs

gkrent said:


> I'm living the many roads to Rome right now LOL!  Round 1 - Late D1 recruitment Round 2 - very early D1 recruitment Round 3 - D2/NAIA/JC recruitment!  All different animals!
> Good Luck to all!  And make sure those kids get GOOD GRADES or else its not going to be easy unless they are YNT!!


Is your late D1 recruit getting money athletic money?  How about the early one?  What are the differences you're experiencing between the two?


----------



## gkrent

MakeAPlay said:


> In D1 soccer?


Yes.  one visit in the South (Sunbelt), one visit in the Midwest (Missouri Valley), and one visit here in the west (WCC).  This was 7-8 years ago so maybe things are different now.


----------



## gkrent

Dubs said:


> Is your late D1 recruit getting money athletic money?  How about the early one?  What are the differences you're experiencing between the two?


Late recruit received minimal money her first year (about 15% of total cost of attendance), next year coach was fired but luckily she was just the kind of player new coach loved and received much more each year she played (as coach made changes to roster), including her 5th redshirt semester.  The early one received a much more substantive offer for all 4 years.    The primary difference was that we didn't know what we were really doing with the first one, and didn't really get her into a quality youth program until her sophomore year in High School.  She had a lot of talent and if she played in a better club prior to that she probably would have gotten a lot of exposure earlier.  The early recruit was a stand-out keeper that has two ODP National Championship rings and a several YNT call-ups (no caps unless you count sitting on the bench during an international game LOL) so she had a ton of early exposure and also had a GK coach with some great connections making calls for her.  Current player is an above average late bloomer who continues to show upside, but is not a pillar of academics, so we have had to reach out more to colleges that would be a fit for her academically, including the local JCs.  Many of the D2s and also JCs do not have huge travel budgets to recruit (some only recruit from their camps!) so we have done well attending ID camps and keeping in touch with certain schools.  She has a couple of offers and will probably make a decision this summer (she's junior).


----------



## Dubs

gkrent said:


> Late recruit received minimal money her first year (about 15% of total cost of attendance), next year coach was fired but luckily she was just the kind of player new coach loved and received much more each year she played (as coach made changes to roster), including her 5th redshirt semester.  The early one received a much more substantive offer for all 4 years.    The primary difference was that we didn't know what we were really doing with the first one, and didn't really get her into a quality youth program until her sophomore year in High School.  She had a lot of talent and if she played in a better club prior to that she probably would have gotten a lot of exposure earlier.  The early recruit was a stand-out keeper that has two ODP National Championship rings and a several YNT call-ups (no caps unless you count sitting on the bench during an international game LOL) so she had a ton of early exposure and also had a GK coach with some great connections making calls for her.  Current player is an above average late bloomer who continues to show upside, but is not a pillar of academics, so we have had to reach out more to colleges that would be a fit for her academically, including the local JCs.  Many of the D2s and also JCs do not have huge travel budgets to recruit (some only recruit from their camps!) so we have done well attending ID camps and keeping in touch with certain schools.  She has a couple of offers and will probably make a decision this summer (she's junior).


Gotcha.  Appreciate the breakdown.


----------



## Surfref

gkrent said:


> .....Current player is an above average late bloomer who continues to show upside, but is not a pillar of academics, so we have had to reach out more to colleges that would be a fit for her academically, including the local JCs.  Many of the D2s and also JCs do not have huge travel budgets to recruit (some only recruit from their camps!) so we have done well attending ID camps and keeping in touch with certain schools.  She has a couple of offers and will probably make a decision this summer (she's junior).


There is nothing wrong with a JC to get a kid used to the academic level of college work and to help them figure out what they truly want to do with their life.  Some kids need that to be successful as a transfer into a university.  Academics should always come first.  Good luck with the process.


----------



## Paddingtonsoccer

Can someone explain what the path looks like to attend a JC and still have soccer be in the picture as part of the transfer process and decision?


----------



## Surfref

Paddingtonsoccer said:


> Can someone explain what the path looks like to attend a JC and still have soccer be in the picture as part of the transfer process and decision?


It all depends on the JC.  Start by contacting the coach.  JC's do not have the same restrictions as the D1's when it comes to player coach contact.  The level of play varies greatly between JC's and can be really good or absolutely awful.  The level of play can even vary between years since the players move on every two years.  In San Diego County, historically, the top two JC programs have been Mesa and Miramar, but Miramar had an off season this past fall.  Both Mesa and Miramar offer very good academic programs.  California JC's have a program that can fast track a student into a California UC or CS.  This saves the student and family a lot of money.  The last estimate I saw comparing JC to CS yearly costs was CS will cost $16000 more per year.  JC's also offer certiofication programs for students that just want the skills needed to do a job and are not worried about going to a 4/5 university.  One of my daughters 21y/o friends, played JC soccer, finished the Mesa radiology technician certification and passed her state test and is now making $60,000 a year.

http://www.cccaasports.org/sports/wsoc/2017-18/standings


----------



## pooka

Hey all, a few questions that have been rattling around my mind:
1. USC has only announced 4 additions for their 2018 team. all 4 are transfers. Did I miss another announcement? Are no freshman joining the team this year?
2. No one has ever mentioned Loyola Marymount on the boards... any insight? I know they are not a powerhouse soccer school, but they are in the WCC and the school seems decent.
3. Does no one from the west coast go to any Big 12 schools?


----------



## MakeAPlay

pooka said:


> Hey all, a few questions that have been rattling around my mind:
> 1. USC has only announced 4 additions for their 2018 team. all 4 are transfers. Did I miss another announcement? Are no freshman joining the team this year?
> 2. No one has ever mentioned Loyola Marymount on the boards... any insight? I know they are not a powerhouse soccer school, but they are in the WCC and the school seems decent.
> 3. Does no one from the west coast go to any Big 12 schools?


Let me see if I can answer these questions for you.

1.  $C will have freshmen in the Fall.  Why there hasn't been an official announcement is a mystery to me.  I do know that one of their freshman that had signed a letter of intent switched to a school in a nicer part of town that is better in almost every way.

2. LMU is an odd situation.  They are the 5th choice women's soccer school in the metro area.  Due to the way that the committee brackets come tournament time they always draw a tough west coast team which makes it a tougher sell for the top players.  I think that they have a lot of potential.  

3. The only Big 12 school that I can think of that consistently gets SoCal players is Texas.  Now there quite a few are others but the players that go out of state tend to go to PAC 12, ACC, SEC, and Big Ten schools among the major conferences or they go to prestigious academic schools like Georgetown or the Ivy League.

I hope that helps.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## GoWest

MakeAPlay said:


> I do know that one of their freshman that had signed a letter of intent switched to a school in a nicer part of town that is better in almost every way.


I did not know Los Angeles City College had a women's soccer program.....chuckle


----------



## Zerodenero

pooka said:


> Hey all, a few questions that have been rattling around my mind:
> 1. USC has only announced 4 additions for their 2018 team. all 4 are transfers. Did I miss another announcement? Are no freshman joining the team this year?


We know 2 incoming '18's...both out of socal. One is on the mex wnt w/a unbelievably high work rate, n the other looks like a cute little Barbie doll twin....who legit goes beast mode/hulk when you piss her off. This upcoming PAC-12 race should be fun to watch!


----------



## Zerodenero

GoWest said:


> I did not know Los Angeles City College had a women's soccer program.....chuckle


Don't forget about the Corsair girls at Santa Monica College. They blend the beach/fashion/form w/a bonus Of chillin post practices at 3rd st promenade, Fred Segal & Abbot Kinney....Quite strategic in my book


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## MakeAPlay

GoWest said:


> I did not know Los Angeles City College had a women's soccer program.....chuckle


It used to be Berkeley's south campus.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Zerodenero said:


> We know 2 incoming '18's...both out of socal. One is on the mex wnt w/a unbelievably high work rate, n the other looks like a cute little Barbie doll twin....who legit goes beast mode/hulk when you piss her off. This upcoming PAC-12 race should be fun to watch!


One of them kinda sprung on the scene recently.  It will be interesting to see how much time they see this season.  I believe they may need a wideback so the defender might see more time early on.

As I like to say attacking players grab the headlines but elite defenders are worth their weight in gold.


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## pooka

Thanks y'all!


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Crazy but exciting recruiting period.  Be prepared to spend money in the process.  Did not really plan on the expense.  Just finished UCSD camp today on coaches recommendation and that is still in play. Now flying to Virginia today to meet with coaches tomorrow at JMU.  Also just popped up that next weekend we are flying to Colorado for another meeting and tour.  Just be prepared to spend several thousand on closing the deal if you are thinking out of state and have several schools in play.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> Crazy but exciting recruiting period.  Be prepared to spend money in the process.  Did not really plan on the expense.  Just finished UCSD camp today on coaches recommendation and that is still in play. Now flying to Virginia today to meet with coaches tomorrow at JMU.  Also just popped up that next weekend we are flying to Colorado for another meeting and tour.  Just be prepared to spend several thousand on closing the deal if you are thinking out of state and have several schools in play.


The coach at JMU is amazing!!  He is ex-military and played in college.  He is an amazing coach and is the architect that put together the 2015-2020 UCLA recruiting classes.  He is a straight shooter and everything he told us about our player and his plans for her was spot on.  He is dearly missed.  Good luck to you and your player and enjoy the ride!!


----------



## surfrider

Simisoccerfan said:


> Crazy but exciting recruiting period.  Be prepared to spend money in the process.  Did not really plan on the expense.  Just finished UCSD camp today on coaches recommendation and that is still in play. Now flying to Virginia today to meet with coaches tomorrow at JMU.  Also just popped up that next weekend we are flying to Colorado for another meeting and tour.  Just be prepared to spend several thousand on closing the deal if you are thinking out of state and have several schools in play.


That was one of my favorite parts of the process. Enjoy the time with your DD.  The out of state thing can be expensive and it can be tough to get to games but in the end it’s all about your kid being happy. Good luck


----------



## Fact

Simisoccerfan said:


> Crazy but exciting recruiting period.  Be prepared to spend money in the process.  Did not really plan on the expense.  Just finished UCSD camp today on coaches recommendation and that is still in play.


Important lesson- most summer Id camps are money makers for the university. They will always recommend their camp. If they have a legitimate interest in you, you will get a personal invite for something that is not a cattle call.


----------



## full90

Simisoccerfan said:


> Crazy but exciting recruiting period.  Be prepared to spend money in the process.  Did not really plan on the expense.  Just finished UCSD camp today on coaches recommendation and that is still in play. Now flying to Virginia today to meet with coaches tomorrow at JMU.  Also just popped up that next weekend we are flying to Colorado for another meeting and tour.  Just be prepared to spend several thousand on closing the deal if you are thinking out of state and have several schools in play.


Maybe I don't understand the new rules? Can't you wait a few weeks and have those visits be paid for by the University? I thought official visits now can begin in the junior year. Why not wait til Sept 1 and have JMU and Colorado pay for them? (I could misunderstand the rules).


----------



## Surfref

Simisoccerfan said:


> Crazy but exciting recruiting period.  Be prepared to spend money in the process.  Did not really plan on the expense.  Just finished UCSD camp today on coaches recommendation and that is still in play. Now flying to Virginia today to meet with coaches tomorrow at JMU.  Also just popped up that next weekend we are flying to Colorado for another meeting and tour.  Just be prepared to spend several thousand on closing the deal if you are thinking out of state and have several schools in play.


We had some more lead time when my DD was going through the process and planned the college visits around mini vacations. My wife was giving my DD and I a hard time about going to Southern Florida until I added four days in the Bahamas.  Then she was all in.  My DD and I did most of the travel just the two of us and had a great time together.  I would do it all over again just for the time we got to spend together.  Enjoy the process.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I think you only get one paid trip and I have heard coaches use that to bring the girls they sign in at the same time in most cases.


----------



## Soccer43

Simisoccerfan said:


> Crazy but exciting recruiting period.  Be prepared to spend money in the process.  Did not really plan on the expense.  Just finished UCSD camp today on coaches recommendation and that is still in play. Now flying to Virginia today to meet with coaches tomorrow at JMU.  Also just popped up that next weekend we are flying to Colorado for another meeting and tour.  Just be prepared to spend several thousand on closing the deal if you are thinking out of state and have several schools in play.


oh please  -  No one cares which schools you are visiting.  If you have questions or getting feedback cool but no one is impressed with your attempt at braggin......Also, schools will pay or your visit after you are age eligible for official visits and if they really really want you -  you can have more than one official visit.


----------



## full90

I know once you’re a junior you get five officials thus I’m wondering why you’d spend your own money?

 Am I wrong on understanding that’s how it works? 

If a coach says hey “id love for you to come visit but I’m not paying for it,” is that a sign that you’re not a high target? Or just that they don’t have a budget? Trying to decipher the new rules and what is all means.


----------



## Soccer43

In my view if they don't invest in you then maybe not so much interest - requires no risk on the school's part - no harm in taking yourself to visit a school or attendinga camp but don'tthink it is something more than what it is.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccer43 said:


> In my view if they don't invest in you then maybe not so much interest - requires no risk on the school's part - no harm in taking yourself to visit a school or attendinga camp but don'tthink it is something more than what it is.


Even the largest most successful programs don’t have that kind of budget. In the past they brought all of the girls in the recruiting class in their senior year sometime when there is a home soccer game and another big event like football/basketball game prior to them signing their letters of intent.  The current freshman usually host the recruits. I don’t know any player that took more than one school paid trip. I don’t see the early recruiting changing a whole lot unfortunately so for the top players that might have that kind of leverage they will be committed well before the age of recruiting trips.  

Lastly the only thing that is an indicator of your players value to schools is the size of your players offer and how much (if any) you have to pony up for school.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Kicknit22

MakeAPlay said:


> One of them kinda sprung on the scene recently.  It will be interesting to see how much time they see this season.  I believe they may need a wideback so the defender might see more time early on.
> 
> As I like to say attacking players grab the headlines but elite defenders are worth their weight in gold.


Got me one of those!!  Fun stuff


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Soccer43 said:


> In my view if they don't invest in you then maybe not so much interest - requires no risk on the school's part - no harm in taking yourself to visit a school or attendinga camp but don'tthink it is something more than what it is.





Soccer43 said:


> oh please  -  No one cares which schools you are visiting.  If you have questions or getting feedback cool but no one is impressed with your attempt at braggin......Also, schools will pay or your visit after you are age eligible for official visits and if they really really want you -  you can have more than one official visit.


Thanks for making me regret even posting anything on this topic.  I had no intention to brag but if that is what you got out of it fine.  Won’t  see me sharing anything in this thread again.


----------



## pooka

Simisoccerfan said:


> Thanks for making me regret even posting anything on this topic.  I had no intention to brag but if that is what you got out of it fine.  Won’t  see me sharing anything in this thread again.


Please continue to share! Don't let the bitter people outweigh those of use who are interested in hearing about all parts of this process. Those of you calling it bragging are showing yourselves to be quite envious. 

Also, anyone who really thought anything changed with those new recruiting rules is naive.


----------



## Monkey

Well Simi’s kid went to the camp st UCSD this week and the way he wrote about it makes it seem that he had to pay for the camp?  Am I mistaken?  And if he did pay, it seeems to me that they are not high on the list since it would not cost anything for the school to allow them to attend the camp for free. Not trying to make a judgement but that is an expensive residential week long camp and doing a couple of those without knowing where you stand can really make a dent in a wallet.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

https://compliance.sports.uga.edu/camps/ncaa-bylaws-concerning-camps/

It’s against NCAA rules to give free or reduced admission to camps.  UCSD Camp is expensive but it is one of my kids top choices.  We would not have attended if the coaches hadn’t watch her play recently and suggested that she attend.  The same goes for any other camp.


----------



## Monkey

Simisoccerfan said:


> https://compliance.sports.uga.edu/camps/ncaa-bylaws-concerning-camps/
> 
> It’s against NCAA rules to give free or reduced admission to camps.  UCSD Camp is expensive but it is one of my kids top choices.  We would not have attended if the coaches hadn’t watch her play recently and suggested that she attend.  The same goes for any other camp.


Thank you for the info. I wonder if there is a loophole somewhere in there if they wanted to sponsor the camp?  Like maybe just invite them  and have them train in a “separate” group from the camp??? Just wondering, no judgement.


----------



## LASTMAN14

I’m hoping you all are around when my girls are of age to be recruited. They are still a few years away.


----------



## LASTMAN14

I will say this. I know the term unicorn is thrown out there. Especially rainbow unicorn. But, I see players that I would call unicorns but others don’t see these players the same way. I have 40 years in this game as a college and amateur player and have played with ex-national players and pro players. And, have watched with a keen eye. I’m not sure what a unicorn is any more. Or an elite player. Those terms are quite subjective now.


----------



## Hank Walker

MakeAPlay said:


> Lastly the only thing that is an indicator of your players value to schools is the size of your players offer and how much (if any) you have to pony up for school.  Good luck to you and your player.


MAP or anyone else that might have a general understanding: what is a reasonable expectation for Division 1 Women's soccer scholarships with regard to amount? Is it a full scholarship for a couple of players at each school and then approximately 50% for the rest of the team? Is it between 50% and 100% for the top ten players and then between 0 and 50% for the rest to fight over? I guess I understand that full scholarships are relatively rare, but I don't really have a good feel for what the most popular scholarship percentage is for the run of the mill excellent players that aren't really unicorns.


----------



## Soccer43

pooka said:


> Please continue to share! Don't let the bitter people outweigh those of use who are interested in hearing about all parts of this process. Those of you calling it bragging are showing yourselves to be quite envious.
> 
> Also, anyone who really thought anything changed with those new recruiting rules is naive.


Trust me - neither bitter nor envious - everyone has their own path for recruiting and there are many ways for your DD to achieve that dream.  The post just came across as look at me and how cool I am and how much money I am spending -  - if you post something on a public forum people you have to be prepared for reactions from others no matter what your intentions are (such as calling me bitter and envious which is funny to me).  And, I agree,not much has really changed with the new recruiting rules.


----------



## Soccer43

Hank Walker said:


> MAP or anyone else that might have a general understanding: what is a reasonable expectation for Division 1 Women's soccer scholarships with regard to amount? Is it a full scholarship for a couple of players at each school and then approximately 50% for the rest of the team? Is it between 50% and 100% for the top ten players and then between 0 and 50% for the rest to fight over? I guess I understand that full scholarships are relatively rare, but I don't really have a good feel for what the most popular scholarship percentage is for the run of the mill excellent players that aren't really unicorns.


From some of my experience so far it seems a couple NT players with full scholarships and much reduced % for others - many with a combination of financial need and academic scholarships and then many with $0.


----------



## espola

Monkey said:


> Thank you for the info. I wonder if there is a loophole somewhere in there if they wanted to sponsor the camp?  Like maybe just invite them  and have them train in a “separate” group from the camp??? Just wondering, no judgement.


One loophole is that the coaches cannot make any concrete offers during the camp.  However, after the camp is ok.  "After" can be as soon as in the car driving home, or in a friend's apartment taking a shower before driving home.


----------



## Monkey

pooka said:


> Also, anyone who really thought anything changed with those new recruiting rules is naive.


Can you please explain further. Are coaches just ignoring the new rules or are there loopholes in it?
I thought it was clear based on posts on this forum that offers could not be made until Junior year?


----------



## Soccer43

From my understanding it says nothing about making offers - they just can't meet with you on campus until Junior year - you can still call on phone and talk with coach that way - the changes are a bit silly in practicality


----------



## Dos Equis

Hank Walker said:


> MAP or anyone else that might have a general understanding: what is a reasonable expectation for Division 1 Women's soccer scholarships with regard to amount? Is it a full scholarship for a couple of players at each school and then approximately 50% for the rest of the team? Is it between 50% and 100% for the top ten players and then between 0 and 50% for the rest to fight over? I guess I understand that full scholarships are relatively rare, but I don't really have a good feel for what the most popular scholarship percentage is for the run of the mill excellent players that aren't really unicorns.


It is difficult to generalize. While I agree a very high % offer reflects a strong interest in a player, each school and coach have unique strategies, and they also have varying amounts of $ available each year depending on current roster commitments. Some take into account financial need and adjust accordingly.  The math says on average you get around 50%. But the reality is you may get an offer that is less first year, and more in later years. 

On the other side of the spectrum, an offer without scholarship is really just an option for the coach, and a nice assist in admission for your child.  If your kid likes the school and you are fortunate to be able to afford it, then even that scenario is a success story, in my book. A good in-state school with no money may cost less than a private with a 50% or less scholarship. 

What I would emphasize is to make sure you do not give any coach the impression your level of  interest is based size of the offer, though you can make it clear the level of assistance might impact your ability to attend.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Hank Walker said:


> MAP or anyone else that might have a general understanding: what is a reasonable expectation for Division 1 Women's soccer scholarships with regard to amount? Is it a full scholarship for a couple of players at each school and then approximately 50% for the rest of the team? Is it between 50% and 100% for the top ten players and then between 0 and 50% for the rest to fight over? I guess I understand that full scholarships are relatively rare, but I don't really have a good feel for what the most popular scholarship percentage is for the run of the mill excellent players that aren't really unicorns.


Like others have said it varies.  On a team with 28 players at a school that fully funds women’s soccer you have 14 scholarships which works out to an average of half.  Although, as stated by others you will have some players get a lot of money up to and including a full ride and some that just get book money or no money.  Players can also get more money later as it becomes available.  My guideline is that if you are spending what you spent per year for club or less you are doing really well.  Although quite honestly I was willing to spend $17k a year if my player had decided to attend Stanford.  I know a good deal when I see it.


----------



## Surfref

Soccer43 said:


> oh please  -  No one cares which schools you are visiting.  If you have questions or getting feedback cool but no one is impressed with your attempt at braggin......Also, schools will pay or your visit after you are age eligible for official visits and if they really really want you -  you can have more than one official visit.


Dude, be nice.  We are all proud of what our kids have accomplished and all have the right to brag a little.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Surfref said:


> Dude, be nice.  We are all proud of what our kids have accomplished and all have the right to brag a little.


Thanks for the support. 

FYI MAP, Josh is amazing.  But I am sure you already know that.


----------



## LASTMAN14

MakeAPlay said:


> Like others have said it varies.  On a team with 28 players at a school that fully funds women’s soccer you have 14 scholarships which works out to an average of half.  Although, as stated by others you will have some players get a lot of money up to and including a full ride and some that just get book money or no money.  Players can also get more money later as it becomes available.  My guideline is that if you are spending what you spent per year for club or less you are doing really well.  Although quite honestly I was willing to spend $17k a year if my player had decided to attend Stanford.  I know a good deal when I see it.


It’s like a floating hard wood floor. One or two years some money. Years 3-4 it opens up. Good to know.


----------



## MWN

Monkey said:


> Can you please explain further. Are coaches just ignoring the new rules or are there loopholes in it?
> I thought it was clear based on posts on this forum that offers could not be made until Junior year?


Here is the "NCAA Official" document on dates:
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017-18DIREC_DIOtherSportsRecruitingGuide_20171205.pdf

An NCAA D1 coach cannot "recruit" a soccer player until 9/1 of Junior Year.  The term recruit means, coach contacts player.  Players are free to contact coaches (on their own) and promote themselves beginning at birth.

An NCAA D1 coach cannot pay for a discount a camp for a prospect, so just ignore the poster that claimed that gem.  The NCAA allows a recruit to make only five visits to Division I schools. Official visits to DII and DIII schools are unlimited.  The school is limited is what it can pay for, with transportation to and from the campus, lodging throughout the visit, three meals per day and three tickets to a home sports event.  Only the athlete and their parent/guardian are covered.  Siblings pay their own way.

With regard to what and how much gets paid for, you can make a few assumptions.  First, the more the schools covers, the higher up the athlete is on the list.  Second, all the money used to pay for official visits comes out of the schools budget and some schools have small budgets and cannot afford to pay too much, even for kids at the top of the list, so appreciate that just because the official visit isn't fully covered may simply mean the school doesn't have the funds in their budget, but really, really wants the kid.


----------



## Multi Sport

I was talking to my sister over the weekend and though she played a different sport I thought this was worth sharing.

She is currently coaching for a National team that was competing over the weekend.  One of the players who attends her alma mater shared with her that her scholarship is being reduced by 30% next year. Not sure if they are trying to move her to a split academic/athletic scholarship but if they can do it to this young lady it can happenn to anyone.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Multi Sport said:


> I was talking to my sister over the weekend and though she played a different sport I thought this was worth sharing.
> 
> She is currently coaching for a National team that was competing over the weekend.  One of the players who attends her alma mater shared with her that her scholarship is being reduced by 30% next year. Not sure if they are trying to move her to a split academic/athletic scholarship but if they can do it to this young lady it can happenn to anyone.


Not in the PAC 12 or BIG Ten as long as they were a 2016 recruit or later.


----------



## Multi Sport

MakeAPlay said:


> Not in the PAC 12 or BIG Ten as long as they were a 2016 recruit or later.


ACC


----------



## Simisoccerfan

When a college sets its scholarship budget and they have 14 scholarships for D1 or 9.9 for D2 do they base their budget on in-state tuition?  Or are they allowed to have a bigger budget if some of their recruits are from out of state?


----------



## espola

Simisoccerfan said:


> When a college sets its scholarship budget and they have 14 scholarships for D1 or 9.9 for D2 do they base their budget on in-state tuition?  Or are they allowed to have a bigger budget if some of their recruits are from out of state?


It depends on what the college lets them do.  The whole "cost" of a scholarship just accounting magic anyway.


----------



## El Clasico

Yep. In my experience, and within the limitations of the number of scholarships, it's all just smoke and mirrors.  Whatever they need to happen, happens.  What's more, there is a lot more academic money and it is more flexible money (for both parties)...if the player has the grades.  That way, they can save some of the scholarship money for those whose grades aren't quite what they could be.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Another question.  How is room and board handled for the time athletes report for the start of the training until school starts?  If you have a percent offer does it cover this cost?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> When a college sets its scholarship budget and they have 14 scholarships for D1 or 9.9 for D2 do they base their budget on in-state tuition?  Or are they allowed to have a bigger budget if some of their recruits are from out of state?


It depends upon the school but for most P5 programs it is allocated as either a percentage of costs (50%, 75%) or what they will pay (tuition, fees, books, room, board).


----------



## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> Another question.  How is room and board handled for the time athletes report for the start of the training until school starts?  If you have a percent offer does it cover this cost?


Those costs are program costs and not scholarship costs.  They put the team in the dorm and feed them during camp.  Once school starts (in late September for quarter system schools) then they move into their regular accommodations (usually when the regular students start moving in).


----------



## Simisoccerfan

MakeAPlay said:


> Those costs are program costs and not scholarship costs.  They put the team in the dorm and feed them during camp.  Once school starts (in late September for quarter system schools) then they move into their regular accommodations (usually when the regular students start moving in).


Thanks MAP!


----------



## Multi Sport

Simisoccerfan said:


> Another question.  How is room and board handled for the time athletes report for the start of the training until school starts?  If you have a percent offer does it cover this cost?


Room and board /meal plans are the most expensive part of college. If your kid is reporting early they most likely will stay on campus for the camp.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Multi Sport said:


> Room and board /meal plans are the most expensive part of college. If your kid is reporting early they most likely will stay on campus for the camp.


Tuition & fees is more expensive at all but maybe some state public schools.  Tuition for out of state players at any UC is $40k which is still less than Stanford.


----------



## espola

Multi Sport said:


> Room and board /meal plans are the most expensive part of college. If your kid is reporting early they most likely will stay on campus for the camp.


What school is that?


----------



## MakeAPlay

espola said:


> What school is that?


The parents of one of my daughter’s friend did a genius thing for her college soccer situation a couple of years ago.  I am mentioning it because it might be a helpful strategy for some of the parents with kids going to school out of state.

Her friend got tuition, fees and books covered by her scholarship and it was at an  out of state school.  Well the cost of real estate in this state was so low relative to California that they bought a house near the school and the payment was so low that it was cheaper than a room and board plan ( I think it was around $10-12k a year at this school give or take if I recall).  What made it better was that she has 2 roommates now (and she did by mid-freshman year) so she is living for free.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Those that have had experience - what did your initial contacts look like (email to coach?) and when did you start sending them (what age)?  Did you include video, or just schedules for upcoming games?


----------



## espola

MakeAPlay said:


> The parents of one of my daughter’s friend did a genius thing for her college soccer situation a couple of years ago.  I am mentioning it because it might be a helpful strategy for some of the parents with kids going to school out of state.
> 
> Her friend got tuition, fees and books covered by her scholarship and it was at an  out of state school.  Well the cost of real estate in this state was so low relative to California that they bought a house near the school and the payment was so low that it was cheaper than a room and board plan ( I think it was around $10-12k a year at this school give or take if I recall).  What made it better was that she has 2 roommates now (and she did by mid-freshman year) so she is living for free.


My wife's aunt did something like that when her son attended San Diego State.  They bought a condo for him to live in, and by the time he graduated the gain on selling the condo was more than they had spent on tuition and fees.  Of course, that was a while back  - SDSU tuition has gone up a lot since then.


----------



## Zerodenero

Soccerfan2 said:


> Those that have had experience - what did your initial contacts look like (email to coach?) and when did you start sending them (what age)?  Did you include video, or just schedules for upcoming games?


Check out the 1st several pages of this thread. Lots of good intel regarding this and everthing else about the process.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Zerodenero said:


> Check out the 1st several pages of this thread. Lots of good intel regarding this and everthing else about the process.


Did that. First 39 pages actually. Ok not all 39...every tine I see two pages of back and forth insults my eyes glaze over and I start hitting page forward for a while. There was quite a bit of good info though. 
I’m still not clear on what the new NCAA junior year verbal rule means practically.  NCAA document makes it look like it includes electronic communication. One poster said that refers the communication FROM the college only. I have lots more questions about it. Prior to 9/1 junior year do I have club coach contact college coach?  Does my DD call directly?  Email?  Can college coach respond or does he/she have to talk through club coach?  
MAP stated to start contacts start of freshman year but I’d like to hear what was successful for others as well. 
And thoughts on the videos? I was a college athlete. Never sent a video. But I don’t know what the protocol is these days. 
If anyone is willing to recap what I might have missed in earlier posts I would be very grateful.


----------



## Surfref

Simisoccerfan said:


> Another question.  How is room and board handled for the time athletes report for the start of the training until school starts?  If you have a percent offer does it cover this cost?


Every school and program will be slightly different.  One of my daughter's friends who played in South Dakota at a private school (she hated the SD winter) had to pay extra for the added month in the dorm before school started. With my daughter, the players living in the dorms moved into their dorm room a couple days before summer practices started on August 1st.  No extra charge for room or food.  She had a roommate on the team and the other two roommates were on the golf and volleyball teams.  The advantage my daughter and her teammate had was they were the first to move in and got to pick which of the four rooms they would take.  My daughter smartly took the room farthest away from the kitchen, lounge and washing machine, so it was the quietest. The players also got priority when registering for classes, so she got all of the classes she wanted.  Brutal practice schedule for those first couple weeks.  Three-a-days for the first two weeks beginning at 5am on the field, gym at 2pm and another field practice at 7pm.  They also had an extra cardio practice from 10-11am for the players who could not pass the running and agility tests.  My daughter was the only freshman out of 8 to pass the test, so she took a nap during that time. Very regimented those first couple weeks to the point that the team was required to eat lunch together. Their only day off was Sundays.


----------



## espola

Surfref said:


> Every school and program will be slightly different.  One of my daughter's friends who played in South Dakota at a private school (she hated the SD winter) had to pay extra for the added month in the dorm before school started. With my daughter, the players living in the dorms moved into their dorm room a couple days before summer practices started on August 1st.  No extra charge for room or food.  She had a roommate on the team and the other two roommates were on the golf and volleyball teams.  The advantage my daughter and her teammate had was they were the first to move in and got to pick which of the four rooms they would take.  My daughter smartly took the room farthest away from the kitchen, lounge and washing machine, so it was the quietest. The players also got priority when registering for classes, so she got all of the classes she wanted.  Brutal practice schedule for those first couple weeks.  Three-a-days for the first two weeks beginning at 5am on the field, gym at 2pm and another field practice at 7pm.  They also had an extra cardio practice from 10-11am for the players who could not pass the running and agility tests.  My daughter was the only freshman out of 8 to pass the test, so she took a nap during that time. Very regimented those first couple weeks to the point that the team was required to eat lunch together. Their only day off was Sundays.


Before my son's Freshman year, he got free room and board in one of the older dormitories, sharing a 4-man suite (2 bedrooms and a bathroom) with 3 other incoming Freshmen.  He was on partial scholarship, but his roommate, who was getting nothing but a discount because his mother was a UC employee, got the same free deal also.  The day before the official move-in weekend, they all moved to their real rooms and started paying.  Before his other years, he was already on a 12-month lease so his room and board were paid as if he were in a college term.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Thanks for the info.  It is helpful when trying to figure out the true next cost between my dd’s offers.


----------



## Zerodenero

Simisoccerfan said:


> Thanks for the info.  It is helpful when trying to figure out the true next cost between my dd’s offers.


Something to consider.

"Cost" vs Value.

Add it to the mix.


----------



## gkrent

Simisoccerfan said:


> Another question.  How is room and board handled for the time athletes report for the start of the training until school starts?  If you have a percent offer does it cover this cost?


I did not see a "bill" for pre-season room and board last year or this year.


----------



## Multi Sport

MakeAPlay said:


> The parents of one of my daughter’s friend did a genius thing for her college soccer situation a couple of years ago.  I am mentioning it because it might be a helpful strategy for some of the parents with kids going to school out of state.
> 
> Her friend got tuition, fees and books covered by her scholarship and it was at an  out of state school.  Well the cost of real estate in this state was so low relative to California that they bought a house near the school and the payment was so low that it was cheaper than a room and board plan ( I think it was around $10-12k a year at this school give or take if I recall).  What made it better was that she has 2 roommates now (and she did by mid-freshman year) so she is living for free.


We actually looked into that. But I've had a rental before and got scared off with the property being so far away, even with an agency. Now I wish we would have gone through with it. Your cost of room and board is spot on.


----------



## Multi Sport

Zerodenero said:


> Something to consider.
> 
> "Cost" vs Value.
> 
> Add it to the mix.


So tue!

If you look at the meal plan cost it makes sense. But when you look at the food (my daughter got tired of it half way through her Freshman year) and understand that your kid will probably eat off campus a lot the true value is diminished.

Something to ask a potential school: 

Does your kid have to be on the meal plan. Some will tell you that all Freshman are on it.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Another question.  When your kid made her decision did you go back to that school and try to negotiate the offer?  Did it work?


----------



## Multi Sport

Simisoccerfan said:


> Another question.  When your kid made her decision did you go back to that school and try to negotiate the offer?  Did it work?


If your kid has the grades they will try to split up the scholarship between athletic and scholastic.  The more they can put into scholastic the more flexibility the coach can have. In my daughters case they also offered her a track scholarship but she declined it. If your daughter is willing to play more then one sport Im sure they will offer her more.


----------



## Zerodenero

Soccerfan2 said:


> Did that. First 39 pages actually. Ok not all 39...every tine I see two pages of back and forth insults my eyes glaze over and I start hitting page forward for a while. There was quite a bit of good info though.
> I’m still not clear on what the new NCAA junior year verbal rule means practically.  NCAA document makes it look like it includes electronic communication. One poster said that refers the communication FROM the college only. I have lots more questions about it. Prior to 9/1 junior year do I have club coach contact college coach?  Does my DD call directly?  Email?  Can college coach respond or does he/she have to talk through club coach?
> MAP stated to start contacts start of freshman year but I’d like to hear what was successful for others as well.
> And thoughts on the videos? I was a college athlete. Never sent a video. But I don’t know what the protocol is these days.
> If anyone is willing to recap what I might have missed in earlier posts I would be very grateful.


There's definitely much content within this college thread. When you add up all the  info...sprinkle in a bit of locker room chatter + good ole' smack talk ...and wallah = Welcome to Socalsoccer.com 

Communication: Yes....your DD should contact coaches in a clean/concise/targeted email and she should copy her club coach. I don't know the "new" NCAA rules. I do know that there is and will continue to be "workarounds".

When our DD was in the process, once she'd received interest from college programs, she called & spoke with coaches. The rule then, was they couldn't call or email her directly (_her freshman year_). They did however, call and immediately hangup. DD seeing the missed call, would know that ABC coach wanted to connect and she'd call them.

Video: Don't know, she didn't use them. Others on the forum have, and seem to have had success.

Genetics: You mentioned you were a college athlete. Over the years, I've observed that many of the girls who were recruited/play at the next level, generally had a parent or family who were athletes in college and/or pro. So your DD should consider herself blessed (_though she may not realize or act like it now_)

Perhaps the biggest tip I can share w/you is for you and your daughter to comprise a plan. Work the plan. Be targeted. Be specific. Be pragmatic. Be realistic (_i.e. skill set matches program_).

Best of luck to you/your DD


----------



## Ricky Fandango

Zerodenero said:


> There's definitely much content within this college thread. When you add up all the  info...sprinkle in a bit of locker room chatter + good ole' smack talk ...and wallah = Welcome to Socalsoccer.com
> 
> Communication: Yes....your DD should contact coaches in a clean/concise/targeted email and she should copy her club coach. I don't know the "new" NCAA rules. I do know that there is and will continue to be "workarounds".
> 
> When our DD was in the process, once she'd received interest from college programs, she called & spoke with coaches. The rule then, was they couldn't call or email her directly (_her freshman year_). They did however, call and immediately hangup. DD seeing the missed call, would know that ABC coach wanted to connect and she'd call them.
> 
> Video: Don't know, she didn't use them. Others on the forum have, and seem to have had success.
> 
> Genetics: You mentioned you were a college athlete. Over the years, I've observed that many of the girls who were recruited/play at the next level, generally had a parent or family who were athletes in college and/or pro. So your DD should consider herself blessed (_though she may not realize or act like it now_)
> 
> Perhaps the biggest tip I can share w/you is for you and your daughter to comprise a plan. Work the plan. Be targeted. Be specific. Be pragmatic. Be realistic (_i.e. skill set matches program_).
> 
> Best of luck to you/your DD


Best of luck to your daughter, ZD.
Knew the first and only time I met you, you're a good egg.


----------



## Zerodenero

Ricky Fandango said:


> Best of luck to your daughter, ZD.
> Knew the first and only time I met you, you're a good egg.


Thx bud..... Right back at-ya. I believe we may see each other once, maybe twice this season as I'm heading to the brown/pep & ucla/pep watering hole & games to meet/greet the rest of the cronies w/kiddos playing in college this season.

You in?


----------



## Soccerfan2

Zerodenero said:


> There's definitely much content within this college thread. When you add up all the  info...sprinkle in a bit of locker room chatter + good ole' smack talk ...and wallah = Welcome to Socalsoccer.com
> 
> Communication: Yes....your DD should contact coaches in a clean/concise/targeted email and she should copy her club coach. I don't know the "new" NCAA rules. I do know that there is and will continue to be "workarounds".
> 
> When our DD was in the process, once she'd received interest from college programs, she called & spoke with coaches. The rule then, was they couldn't call or email her directly (_her freshman year_). They did however, call and immediately hangup. DD seeing the missed call, would know that ABC coach wanted to connect and she'd call them.
> 
> Video: Don't know, she didn't use them. Others on the forum have, and seem to have had success.
> 
> Genetics: You mentioned you were a college athlete. Over the years, I've observed that many of the girls who were recruited/play at the next level, generally had a parent or family who were athletes in college and/or pro. So your DD should consider herself blessed (_though she may not realize or act like it now_)
> 
> Perhaps the biggest tip I can share w/you is for you and your daughter to comprise a plan. Work the plan. Be targeted. Be specific. Be pragmatic. Be realistic (_i.e. skill set matches program_).
> 
> Best of luck to you/your DD


Thank you!!! Very helpful. I appreciate you taking the time.


----------



## Zerodenero

Soccerfan2 said:


> Thank you!!! Very helpful. I appreciate you taking the time.


No problem. The entire process can be nerve racking.  Don't let it. Try and look at it thru the lens of you mentoring, coaching and leading your dd thru and to the best possible outcome, for her future.

Once our dd got over the initial thrill of receiving recruiting interest, she controlled what she could, and didn't worry about what she couldn't. She was transparent with school (A), and let them know that she was meeting with school (B) and (C)  from the same conference. That seemed to work, because the school/program that she ultimately chose, wasn't on the radar till they realized she was serious about committing to a school within their conference.

I found that going thru this process with my DD took our relationship to another level. The discussions, time, road trips (unofficial visits), pro's/cons of schools, visits etc.... These experiences/discussions were absolutely priceless, and I will forever be greatful for the opportunity to have shared that with my DD. My hope is when it's all said/done, you feel the same.

Good luck


----------



## MakeAPlay

Zerodenero said:


> No problem. The entire process can be nerve racking.  Don't let it. Try and look at it thru the lens of you mentoring, coaching and leading your dd thru and to the best possible outcome, for her future.
> 
> Once our dd got over the initial thrill of receiving recruiting interest, she controlled what she could, and didn't worry about what she couldn't. She was transparent with school (A), and let them know that she was meeting with school (B) and (C)  from the same conference. That seemed to work, because the school/program that she ultimately chose, wasn't on the radar till they realized she was serious about committing to a school within their conference.
> 
> I found that going thru this process with my DD took our relationship to another level. The discussions, time, road trips (unofficial visits), pro's/cons of schools, visits etc.... These experiences/discussions were absolutely priceless, and I will forever be greatful for the opportunity to have shared that with my DD. My hope is when it's all said/done, you feel the same.
> 
> Good luck


I just want you to put in a good word for me when she is in White House because I might just need an 11th hour pardon...


----------



## Zerodenero

MakeAPlay said:


> I just want you to put in a good word for me when she is in White House because I might just need an 11th hour pardon...


Lol...U got it bruh. Then again, if the old school Poly comes out, I may need to use it myself


----------



## Multi Sport

Zerodenero said:


> Lol...U got it bruh. Then again, if the old school Poly comes out, I may need to use it myself


Poly? What year?


----------



## Zerodenero

Multi Sport said:


> Poly? What year?


In this context, Urban Dictionary defines it best:


----------



## MakeAPlay

Zerodenero said:


> In this context, Urban Dictionary defines it best:


I like the new avatar.  I miss the old days of WWF.  Jimmy Superfly Snuka, Junkyard Dog, Andre the Giant, Hill Billy Jim.  It’s scary how many of the old school wrestlers are no longer with us...


----------



## Multi Sport

Zerodenero said:


> In this context, Urban Dictionary defines it best:


Nice..


----------



## Surfref

Multi Sport said:


> So tue!
> 
> If you look at the meal plan cost it makes sense. But when you look at the food (my daughter got tired of it half way through her Freshman year) and understand that your kid will probably eat off campus a lot the true value is diminished.
> 
> Something to ask a potential school:
> 
> Does your kid have to be on the meal plan. Some will tell you that all Freshman are on it.


When my daughter was back east for school she found out that Cracker Barrel will give you unlimited biscuits is you order a drink.  She would go with her teammates and they would order one of the big $6 dinner salad and a drink each and just sit and talk and eat salad and biscuits for hours.  My daughter disliked most of the campus cafeteria food so the required freshman meal plan was a waste of scholarship money.  College kids will quickly get tired of the cafeteria food and find cheap food off campus or hit up the Walmart grocery store.


----------



## MakeAPlay

CaliKlines said:


> Actually Zero, you are entitled to *your* opinion, but basically it is my opinion that *you're* flat out wrong. (Hopefully you didn't neglect proper grammar when you were busy preparing your kids how to pick a college in 6th grade.)
> 
> 
> 
> To answer your question....yes, the conversations regarding college attendance when a child is growing up are definitely influential. But you seem to mis-understand the mindset of attending college and being able to adequately and knowledgeably understand the criteria to make the decision on which college to attend. Are you advocating that your 12/13/14 year old daughter understood the pros and cons of a large public university vs. small private institution because you had "discussions in your home with siblings"?
> 
> College attendance was never a option for my kids, as evidenced by the 529 accounts set up on their first birthday. College was always a priority, and, over the years, many visits were made to our alma maters, and other colleges for sporting events, plays, and other community events. They grew up in that environment, but that in no way made her ready to pick a school in her freshman year of high school. Maybe my kid is just stupid, but I don't think setting a tone/dream/aspiration makes them able to understand the difference between Stanford and Samford.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, you're the one saying to prepare your child in 6th grade to pick a college. My ill prepared daughter was too busy deciding what to watch between Lizzy McGuire or High School Musical...but that is because I'm a bad parent that "chose to see where the cards would fall". Excuse me if I didn't educate my player when she was 12 on the differences between urban/rural campus, geographical settings, majors offered, cultural considerations, and a plethora of other criteria necessary to make an informed college decision. Her decision to commit in early in her 10th grade year followed an accelerated program of campus visits, lists of pros/cons, and hours of reviews of academic majors offered at each institution. She elected to choose a campus that offered the largest catalog of available majors, so that she would have plenty of options when she was old and wise enough to fine tune her education specialty.
> 
> I tend to think that Hank has it right, compared to Zero...
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck to you and your player!


This post is the biggest crock of $hit on this forum.  @CaliKlines is like the neighbor with the pool and the RV yet are 5 months behind on their mortgage.  All fluff and facade with no substance.  You went through a thorough process and ended up with North Carolina State?  I call bull$hit.  I will bet you anything that your player and her “meticulous” process sees less minutes than mine plays in her first game.  You act like you know what you are talking about but you are only fooling those of us who don’t know your lies and whining from the old forum.  Enjoy your last couple weeks of acting like you know something.  I doubt many are going to listen when your kid transfers to MT. SAC community college.


----------



## Zerodenero

MakeAPlay said:


> This post is the biggest crock of $hit on this forum.  @CaliKlines is like the neighbor with the pool and the RV yet are 5 months behind on their mortgage.  All fluff and facade with no substance.  You went through a thorough process and ended up with North Carolina State?  I call bull$hit.  I will bet you anything that your player and her “meticulous” process sees less minutes than mine plays in her first game.  You act like you know what you are talking about but you are only fooling those of us who don’t know your lies and whining from the old forum.  Enjoy your last couple weeks of acting like you know something.  I doubt many are going to listen when your kid transfers to MT. SAC community college.


Well my friend.....I will say his response did give me a chuckle....you know, given the facts and all. But dang...you just went straight up, off the ring top, final goodbye smack down!

Given the history, It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out


----------



## MakeAPlay

Zerodenero said:


> Well my friend.....I will say his response did give me a chuckle....you know, given the facts and all. But dang...you just went straight up, off the ring top, final goodbye smack down!
> 
> Given the history, It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out


It’s my send off  present to another ex-Striker parent that never stopped being an over the top advocate for all three sides of the big arguments, depending upon which team his kid currently played for!  What I promise is that college is pretty eye opening, especially in a big time conference and “there ain’t no hiding from the film” and what is there or more likely what isn’t there will speak volumes.

Good luck to you and your amazing player!


----------



## Surfref

MakeAPlay said:


> ......I doubt many are going to listen when your kid transfers to MT. SAC community college.


And what is wrong with a junior college?  My oldest daughter spent four years at a JC trying to figure out what she wanted to do with her life before moving on to UCLA for her BA and UCSD for her MBA and USC for her DBA.  She now has a very successful job.  I went to a JC (long time ago) before transferring to UCLA for my BS degree.  Mt Sac does provide a good education and base to move to a University.

So, if you wanted to insult him you should have said, "Drops out of college her freshman year to work at the local NC Publix."  But then again, you could have just wished his DD good luck in college, since she had no choice in her father.  I just don't understand why people come on this forum and bash someone's kid because the parent that posts may be an a-hole or you disagree with their point of view.  Go after the person making the a-hole post and not their kid. 

I just hope everyone's kids succeed in life.


----------



## 3thatplay

Surfref said:


> And what is wrong with a junior college? ...  I just don't understand why people come on this forum and bash someone's kid because the parent that posts may be an a-hole or you disagree with their point of view...
> 
> I just hope everyone's kids succeed in life.


Well said!

I can't wait to see if my dd plays at all this year.  Doesn't matter though as she probably will receive a good education.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Surfref said:


> And what is wrong with a junior college?  My oldest daughter spent four years at a JC trying to figure out what she wanted to do with her life before moving on to UCLA for her BA and UCSD for her MBA and USC for her DBA.  She now has a very successful job.  I went to a JC (long time ago) before transferring to UCLA for my BS degree.  Mt Sac does provide a good education and base to move to a University.
> 
> So, if you wanted to insult him you should have said, "Drops out of college her freshman year to work at the local NC Publix."  But then again, you could have just wished his DD good luck in college, since she had no choice in her father.  I just don't understand why people come on this forum and bash someone's kid because the parent that posts may be an a-hole or you disagree with their point of view.  Go after the person making the a-hole post and not their kid.
> 
> I just hope everyone's kids succeed in life.


I’m glad that everything worked out for you and your daughter regarding going to a JC.  I know plenty of people that going to community college was the right thing for them.  With that being said it was not directed at you and if you feel that it was then hopefully you now understand. I won’t get into people’s personal choices and situations as my family is different although I also have a degree from the same school as will my daughter in 17 months and our path and experience  was much different than yours (we were/are athletes) so try to understand a different perspective than your own.

Regarding me and Cali and what I say.  Please stay out of it.  This is Hatfield and McCoy $hit and with all due respect you aren’t either so just be a silent observer.  I go after whomever, whenever I deem it appropriate.  Please just pretend you are the n the corner of Crenshaw and Slauson and keep on moving or simply put me on ignore and you will no longer feel the need to lecture me in how to deal with a lying pansy.

Get it now?  Good luck to you and your family.


----------



## MakeAPlay

I must have hit a nerve with @norwegian too.  I don’t care haters are gonna hate and I will be booking a flight to Cary soon...


----------



## outside!

3thatplay said:


> Well said!
> 
> I can't wait to see if my dd plays at all this year.  Doesn't matter though as she probably will receive a good education.


I would be willing to bet a beer that she will play and play well.


----------



## Surfref

MakeAPlay said:


> I’m glad that everything worked out for you and your daughter regarding going to a JC.  I know plenty of people that going to community college was the right thing for them.  With that being said it was not directed at you and if you feel that it was then hopefully you now understand. I won’t get into people’s personal choices and situations as my family is different although I also have a degree from the same school as will my daughter in 17 months and our path and experience  was much different than yours (we were/are athletes) so try to understand a different perspective than your own.
> 
> Regarding me and Cali and what I say.  Please stay out of it.  This is Hatfield and McCoy $hit and with all due respect you aren’t either so just be a silent observer.  I go after whomever, whenever I deem it appropriate.  Please just pretend you are the n the corner of Crenshaw and Slauson and keep on moving or simply put me on ignore and you will no longer feel the need to lecture me in how to deal with a lying pansy.
> 
> Get it now?  Good luck to you and your family.


Wow, the hatred you have for Cali really comes out in your post.  Not sure what the "Crenshaw and Slauson" reference means, but can I hang out on Fairfax and Slauson since I lived near there for a while and still know people in Inglewood.  It is fairly close to where you want me to hangout.  Oh, and we are also athletes that played college baseball, volleyball and soccer.

I have never had a problem with your posts and find many to be informative and usually just skip over the "Hatfield and McCoy" type posts.  This thread is about advice on college recruiting and some people actually read it for advice which there is some good advice.  Your post made JC's sound like they are not an option to be considered.  Could you imagine the soccer mom who does not know better and is looking for advice for her daughter and your post happens to be the first she reads?  Some threads are for bitching and feuds and others should be for sharing useful experiences and information.


----------



## outside!

Sounds like a nice way of saying MAP needs to increase her/his signal to noise ratio. When the signal is good there is a lot of good information.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Surfref said:


> Wow, the hatred you have for Cali really comes out in your post.  Not sure what the "Crenshaw and Slauson" reference means, but can I hang out on Fairfax and Slauson since I lived near there for a while and still know people in Inglewood.  It is fairly close to where you want me to hangout.  Oh, and we are also athletes that played college baseball, volleyball and soccer.
> 
> I have never had a problem with your posts and find many to be informative and usually just skip over the "Hatfield and McCoy" type posts.  This thread is about advice on college recruiting and some people actually read it for advice which there is some good advice.  Your post made JC's sound like they are not an option to be considered.  Could you imagine the soccer mom who does not know better and is looking for advice for her daughter and your post happens to be the first she reads?  Some threads are for bitching and feuds and others should be for sharing useful experiences and information.


Nice to hear.  If you played sports at UCLA then our time there probably overlapped and I may have come across you at one time or another.  I don’t hate Cali.  He is just the ultimate hypocrite and that observation goes back to the old forum. 

I look at the situation a little differently.  Cali is so prone to hyperbole and misrepresentation that I often crack on him just to point out his bull$hit.


----------



## MakeAPlay

outside! said:


> Sounds like a nice way of saying MAP needs to increase her/his signal to noise ratio. When the signal is good there is a lot of good information.


I’m 16-17 months from signing off for good and converting into an Albion ‘05 fan which is the team that my second favorite player is a member of but I will let her entirely more diplomatic mother be her advocate.  I’m just happy that my baby is 100% healthy for the first time since her junior year of high school  and ready for her best season ever.


----------



## outside!

Good to hear she is healthy. She was impressive the time I saw her play in Vegas.


----------



## MR.D

Surfref said:


> Not sure what the "Crenshaw and Slauson" reference means, but can I hang out on Fairfax and Slauson since I lived near there for a while and still know people in Inglewood.


Ha ha, "Crenshaw and Slauson" referencing the old days of when we use to hang out there cruising down the street.  "Keeping it moving."


----------



## jpeter

MR.D said:


> Ha ha, "Crenshaw and Slauson" referencing the old days of when we use to hang out there cruising down the street.  "Keeping it moving."


The 'Shaw was ruff in the 80' but turned around a bit lately with the light rail going through & station at Hyde Park things have cleaned up somwhat.


----------



## timmyh

MakeAPlay said:


> I must have hit a nerve with @norwegian too.  I don’t care haters are gonna hate and I will be booking a flight to Cary soon...


You sure make a lot of guarantees that hardly ever actually come through.  A year ago you promised the forum multiple times that you were booked for a flight to France for the U20 WC. That starts next week. Were you able to get a refund?


----------



## NoGoal

timmyh said:


> You sure make a lot of guarantees that hardly ever actually come through.  A year ago you promised the forum multiple times that you were booked for a flight to France for the U20 WC. That starts next week. Were you able to get a refund?


His DD was injured or MAP would be going to France for the U20 WWC.


----------



## MakeAPlay

timmyh said:


> You sure make a lot of guarantees that hardly ever actually come through.  A year ago you promised the forum multiple times that you were booked for a flight to France for the U20 WC. That starts next week. Were you able to get a refund?


Hey genius my kid got a scope after a visit to US Soccer’s doctor found a problem with her knee that had been bothering her for 3 years.  Now let me ask you a question.  Why isn’t your daughter in France?  Is your kid good enough to get on the field with my player?  Mine is a 3.8 student at a top 25 university and is the best college player at her position.  How is yours doing?

Nice try pal but my kid is bullet proof.  The U20 coach would love to have my player.  Ask me this question in a few months when she is on the U23 roster or when she is deciding between being a first round draft choice, playing in Europe or going straight to grad school.  How are your kids choices going?

You are swinging above your weight class McFly.


----------



## MakeAPlay

NoGoal said:


> His DD was injured or MAP would be going to France for the U20 WWC.


No need to explain to checker players.  Much more fun to clown them for their lack of knowledge.


----------



## MakeAPlay

timmyh said:


> You sure make a lot of guarantees that hardly ever actually come through.  A year ago you promised the forum multiple times that you were booked for a flight to France for the U20 WC. That starts next week. Were you able to get a refund?


Show me one guarantee that didn’t?  Oh and I will be in Cary in December.  How about you?


----------



## MakeAPlay

I agree with @Surfref if you want to get into a flame war with me I am game but let’s take it to the D1 talk thread.  Since 90%+ of the kids of parents on this forum won’t ever play D1 it won’t be a distraction to the people looking for good info on recruiting.  I’m ready and willing...


----------



## timmyh

NoGoal said:


> His DD was injured or MAP would be going to France for the U20 WWC.


No she wouldn't, but that's not a slight. She still is a wonderful player. And yes my oldest runs in the same soccer circles as Maps amazing daughter. They know each other well. 
Having a wonderful kid doesn't preclude the father from being a world class douche. And I know of nobody in those same circles who doesnt believe that 1) KM is a great kid and a wonderful player and, 2) her dad is an insufferable blowhard.


----------



## surfrider

timmyh said:


> No she wouldn't, but that's not a slight. She still is a wonderful player. And yes my oldest runs in the same soccer circles as Maps amazing daughter. They know each other well.
> Having a wonderful kid doesn't preclude the father from being a world class douche. And I know of nobody in those same circles who doesnt believe that 1) KM is a great kid and a wonderful player and, 2) her dad is an insufferable blowhard.


SPOT ON


----------



## NoGoal

timmyh said:


> No she wouldn't, but that's not a slight. She still is a wonderful player. And yes my oldest runs in the same soccer circles as Maps amazing daughter. They know each other well.
> Having a wonderful kid doesn't preclude the father from being a world class douche. And I know of nobody in those same circles who doesnt believe that 1) KM is a great kid and a wonderful player and, 2) her dad is an insufferable blowhard.


I don’t agree!  My DD was club teammates with 2 defenders who made the U20 squad and KM is just as good if not better than those 2 players.


----------



## MakeAPlay

NoGoal said:


> I don’t agree!  My DD was club teammates with 2 defenders who made the U20 squad and KM is just as good if not better than those 2 players.


I’m not sure who they are referring to but the people in the know say that my kid is the best 1v1 defender in the country and it isn’t very close.  August is here so the bull$hit stops and actions talk.  I’ll be in Cary in December and my kid will graduate in 16 months Summa Cum Laude and will be one of the first 4 players chosen in the NWSL draft in 2020 if she decides to play domestically.  Haters gonna hate.


----------



## MakeAPlay

timmyh said:


> No she wouldn't, but that's not a slight. She still is a wonderful player. And yes my oldest runs in the same soccer circles as Maps amazing daughter. They know each other well.
> Having a wonderful kid doesn't preclude the father from being a world class douche. And I know of nobody in those same circles who doesnt believe that 1) KM is a great kid and a wonderful player and, 2) her dad is an insufferable blowhard.


You wish that your kid ran in the same circles and you say many things without corroboration.  I welcome anybody that thinks anything about me to say it to my face like a man (or woman) otherwise you are just a bitching a$$ pu$$y.


----------



## MakeAPlay

NoGoal said:


> I don’t agree!  My DD was club teammates with 2 defenders who made the U20 squad and KM is just as good if not better than those 2 players.


Stats don’t lie.  My kid was the highest rated player by In-Stat at her position last year in college.  No worries!


----------



## push_up

Except she chokes in big games and has yet to stop game winning goals in the last two NCAA finals.  Go ahead, book that loss to Cary.  I am looking forward to watching it.


----------



## Multi Sport

Sitting at my sons practice yesterday I overheard a coach talking to one of his players.

 He asked her if she got into high level D1 school but did not play would she be happy? That maybe she should be looking at mid level D1 or D2-NAIA schools where she would probably be playing more. I wish the coach would have asked her if she knew what she wanted to major in. If she did then to narrow her seatch to the schools that offered her major regardless of division. 

Too many kids choose a school because of the soccer program or maybe the parents are pushing for that D1 school that will allow them to drive around with University XYZ decal.


----------



## NoGoal

push_up said:


> Except she chokes in big games and has yet to stop game winning goals in the last two NCAA finals.  Go ahead, book that loss to Cary.  I am looking forward to watching it.


Damn, you must be an unhappy person to post something so negative first thing in the morning.

You should buy yourself a cheap set of golf clubs and pounds some range balls.  It shoud do the trick to work off your frustrations.  Lmao!


----------



## espola

NoGoal said:


> Damn, you must be an unhappy person to post something so negative first thing in the morning.
> 
> You should buy yourself a cheap set of golf clubs and pounds some range balls.  It shoud do the trick to work off your frustrations.  Lmao!


You might think it is negative, but all of us who watched the games know what he means.


----------



## NoGoal

Multi Sport said:


> Sitting at my sons practice yesterday I overheard a coach talking to one of his players.
> 
> He asked her if she got into high level D1 school but did not play would she be happy? That maybe she should be looking at mid level D1 or D2-NAIA schools where she would probably be playing more. I wish the coach would have asked her if she knew what she wanted to major in. If she did then to narrow her seatch to the schools that offered her major regardless of division.
> 
> Too many kids choose a school because of the soccer program or maybe the parents are pushing for that D1 school that will allow them to drive around with University XYZ decal.


It’s not about playing D1 soccer.  It just happens there are far more outstanding academic universities at the D1 level than say, D2 or NAIA.  D3 has a lot of elite schools, but they don’t bend much on their academic  requirements and many club players don’t sport a GPA over 4.30.


----------



## NoGoal

espola said:


> You might think it is negative, but all of us who watched the games know what he means.


If you don’t think that is negative then I can’t help you.  Push Up has been posting negative shit for a couple years now!


----------



## outside!

push_up said:


> Except she chokes in big games and has yet to stop game winning goals in the last two NCAA finals.  Go ahead, book that loss to Cary.  I am looking forward to watching it.


Could you do any better?


----------



## push_up

Sometimes the truth is harsh.


----------



## NoGoal

push_up said:


> Sometimes the truth is harsh.


Yup truth is harsh, just like you’re an asshole!

I also don’t care if, I’m banned or put in time-out.  I don’t get on his forum much anymore!  The golf forum is better anyways!


----------



## Multi Sport

NoGoal said:


> It’s not about playing D1 soccer.  It just happens there are far more outstanding academic universities at the D1 level than say, D2 or NAIA.  D3 has a lot of elite schools, but they don’t bend much on their academic  requirements and many club players don’t sport a GPA over 4.30.


My post was my attempt to bring the thread back to the subject. But you are correct in that the academic requirements are stiff at many of the non D1 schools. I believe the year my daughter started her school they had an acceptance rate of 23%.

As far there being far more outstanding academic universities at the D1 level? I would say that there are far more prestigious/well known D1 schools mainly because we watch them on TV and are familiar with not only the school but it's teams, players, coaches and even their mascots.


----------



## mirage

Multi Sport said:


> .....I wish the coach would have asked her if she knew what she wanted to major in.....
> 
> Too many kids choose a school because of the soccer program or maybe the parents are pushing for that D1 school that will allow them to drive around with University XYZ decal.


Maybe girls are different, but almost all boys (probably >90%) don't know what to major in. 

Take my kid now in college.  He was admitted as a physics major and changed to economics.  I don't think playing soccer at his college had nothing to do with changing majors.  It had more to do with finding out what the curriculum is actually like as well as coming into his own during the first year (growing up a bit).  In other words, being there helps make up their minds.

When we started the whole thing looking to be recruited, we never cared about what division the school was.  The only criteria was how good is the school and does it have something that interested/appealed to my kid outside of soccer.

The hardest part, as I've mentioned in the past posts, is matching the educational desires with realistic chance of being successful at the school (education), AND get recruited by the coach from that school.  This way, if soccer doesn't workout or get recruited, more important part does workout - formal education.

We turned down several offers from schools we never considered and chased after the schools we had serious interests in.  While I don't know how it will all workout in the end, so far so good.  The kid reports for preseason next week and off we go to the second year....

Meanwhile, our youngest will be a junior in HS and he has no desire to play soccer in college (even though having gone through this once, I know he can play somewhere...) so he's search will be easier but I would never characterize it as simpler.  He doesn't know what to study and won't have soccer to ground him during the 1st year, so we'll have to work much harder and focus on schools that do not require major declaration to be admitted (where you declare by the end of 1st or 2nd year - mostly liberal arts private schools) and keep him focused.


----------



## Multi Sport

mirage said:


> Maybe girls are different, but almost all boys (probably >90%) don't know what to major in.
> 
> Take my kid now in college.  He was admitted as a physics major and changed to economics.  I don't think playing soccer at his college had nothing to do with changing majors.  It had more to do with finding out what the curriculum is actually like as well as coming into his own during the first year (growing up a bit).  In other words, being there helps make up their minds.
> 
> When we started the whole thing looking to be recruited, we never cared about what division the school was.  The only criteria was how good is the school and does it have something that interested/appealed to my kid outside of soccer.
> 
> The hardest part, as I've mentioned in the past posts, is matching the educational desires with realistic chance of being successful at the school (education), AND get recruited by the coach from that school.  This way, if soccer doesn't workout or get recruited, more important part does workout - formal education.
> 
> We turned down several offers from schools we never considered and chased after the schools we had serious interests in.  While I don't know how it will all workout in the end, so far so good.  The kid reports for preseason next week and off we go to the second year....
> 
> Meanwhile, our youngest will be a junior in HS and he has no desire to play soccer in college (even though having gone through this once, I know he can play somewhere...) so he's search will be easier but I would never characterize it as simpler.  He doesn't know what to study and won't have soccer to ground him during the 1st year, so we'll have to work much harder and focus on schools that do not require major declaration to be admitted (where you declare by the end of 1st or 2nd year - mostly liberal arts private schools) and keep him focused.


So true on the girls v boys. Maybe it's a maturity thing..


----------



## NoGoal

Multi Sport said:


> My post was my attempt to bring the thread back to the subject. But you are correct in that the academic requirements are stiff at many of the non D1 schools. I believe the year my daughter started her school they had an acceptance rate of 23%.
> 
> As far there being far more outstanding academic universities at the D1 level? I would say that there are far more prestigious/well known D1 schools mainly because we watch them on TV and are familiar with not only the school but it's teams, players, coaches and even their mascots.


I would say there are just as many elite academic universities at the D3 level that can rival the elite academic universities at the D1 level (education wise) than D2 or NAIA.  The only D2 that comes to mind as an elite academic university in SoCal is UCSD and they are going D1 by 2021.  The other D2’s that come to mind are Dominguez Hills, Cal State LA, Azusa Pacific....not exactly difficult universities to gain admissions to.  NAIA in SoCal to name a couple consists of Soka University and Concordia University.  Where as D3 consists of Claremont Colleges, Occidental, Cal-Tech which their education rivals or surpasses the levels at USC, UCLA, UCI, UCSB, Pepperdine and alike.


----------



## 3thatplay

Multi Sport said:


> So true on the girls v boys. Maybe it's a maturity thing..


And some on this forum haven't matured yet either.  Hopefully in 16+ months the level on here will rise; in the mean time other forums are apparently dropping.


----------



## Multi Sport

NoGoal said:


> I would say there are just as many elite academic universities at the D3 level than D2 or NAIA.  The only D2 that comes to mind as an elite academic university in SoCal is UCSD and they are going D1 by 2021.  The other D2’s that come to mind is Dominguez Hills, Cal State LA, Azusa Pacific....not exactly your top 100 academic universities that’s for sure.  NAIA in SoCal consists Soka University and Concordia to name a couple.  Where as D3 consists of Claremont Colleges, Occidental, Cal-Tech which their education rivals or surpasses the levels at USC, UCLA, UCI, UCSB and alike.


There are more NAIA's in So Cal then that but that's not my point. I'm talking about on a national level, the D1's have name recognition that very few schools can match but on an academic level they are on par with the D1's.


----------



## 3thatplay

NoGoal said:


> Ping G400 LST 8.5 degrees-Handcrafted Evenflow Black Shaft
> Callaway Rogue Sub Zero 15 degree-Evenflow Blue shaft
> Titleist 818 H2 Hybrid-Tensei Blue shaft
> Mizuno MP 18s FliHi 4-6 iron
> Mizuno MP 18s MMC 7-PW irons
> Titleist Vokey SM6 50* F Grind
> Mack Daddy 4 54* C Grind
> Titleist Vokey SM6 58* K Grind
> Titleist Scotty Cameron Newport Mil-Spec 34 inch 340 gram putter
> Titleist Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Detour Mod with copper insert, 34 inch 350 gram putter
> Titleist yellow AVX ball


Holy heck Batman!!


----------



## 3thatplay

3thatplay said:


> Holy heck Batman!!


Do you have a bag to do those clubs justice?


----------



## NoGoal

Multi Sport said:


> There are more NAIA's in So Cal then that but that's not my point. I'm talking about on a national level, the D1's have name recognition that very few schools can match but on an academic level they are on par with the D1's.


 Can you provide an elite NAIA academic university?  I can easily name a few D3 elite universities outside SoCal such as Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, and NYU.


----------



## NoGoal

3thatplay said:


> Do you have a bag to do those clubs justice?


Nah, just a Ping Hoofer 4 bag.  IMO, cart bags are overkill.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

3thatplay said:


> Do you have a bag to do those clubs justice?


No, NoGoal rents his clubs.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

3thatplay said:


> Holy heck Batman!!


It's not the arrow, it's the Indian.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

NoGoal said:


> Nah, just a Ping Hoofer 4 bag.  IMO, cart bags are overkill.


I am almost ready for you.
Had an injury a few months ago.
I will keep you posted, just let me know how many strokes you need.


----------



## NoGoal

Sheriff Joe said:


> No, NoGoal rents his clubs.


With my club hoeing ways.  You can actually say that, since I just traded in my Callaway Sub Zero Epic 3 wood for the Rogue Sub Zero 3 wood.  On the launch monitor I was getting 15 yards more, because of 1K less backspin.


----------



## NoGoal

Sheriff Joe said:


> It's not the arrow, it's the Indian.


I agree and why my hdcp is trending down to a 3.7 after my 73 at Goose Creek today.  Indian and not the arrow!


----------



## LASTMAN14

NoGoal said:


> I would say there are just as many elite academic universities at the D3 level that can rival the elite academic universities at the D1 level (education wise) than D2 or NAIA.  The only D2 that comes to mind as an elite academic university in SoCal is UCSD and they are going D1 by 2021.  The other D2’s that come to mind are Dominguez Hills, Cal State LA, Azusa Pacific....not exactly difficult universities to gain admissions to.  NAIA in SoCal to name a couple consists of Soka University and Concordia University.  Where as D3 consists of Claremont Colleges, Occidental, Cal-Tech which their education rivals or surpasses the levels at USC, UCLA, UCI, UCSB, Pepperdine and alike.


You forgot your Alma Mater CPP.


----------



## NoGoal

LASTMAN14 said:


> You forgot your Alma Mater CPP.


True and Cal Poly Pomona University being D2 isn’t difficult to gain admissions either with a 39% acceptance rate.  It is harder than Dominguez Hills, Cal State LA and San Bernardino though and harder than D1 Cal State Fullerton.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

NoGoal said:


> With my club hoeing ways.  You can actually say that, since I just traded in my Callaway Sub Zero Epic 3 wood for the Rogue Sub Zero 3 wood.  On the launch monitor I was getting 15 yards more, because of 1K less backspin.


That's kinda why I want to play with you, I might be able to get a few new clubs.


----------



## NoGoal

Sheriff Joe said:


> That's kinda why I want to play with you, I might be able to get a few new clubs.


LMAO!


----------



## Surfref

NoGoal said:


> Yup truth is harsh, just like you’re an asshole!
> 
> I also don’t care if, I’m banned or put in time-out.  I don’t get on his forum much anymore!  The golf forum is better anyways!


My Gun and Scuba Diving forums are both positive and helpful.  The volleyball forum that my sister (her daughters play) introduced me too does not have adults writing disparaging remarks about kids or college age players.  This soccer forum seems to be the only place that I have seen where adults are outright a-holes toward kids or make disparaging comments about a kid to try put down an adult poster.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Surfref said:


> My Gun and Scuba Diving forums are both positive and helpful.  The volleyball forum that my sister (her daughters play) introduced me too does not have adults writing disparaging remarks about kids or college age players.  This soccer forum seems to be the only place that I have seen where adults are outright a-holes toward kids or make disparaging comments about a kid to try put down an adult poster.


What kind of guns?


----------



## Surfref

Since we are in a thread related to collegiate sports, here is some trivia for today in history.  On 3 August 1852 America's first intercollegiate athletic event was held as crews from Yale and Harvard raced on Lake Winnipesaukee in Center Harbor, NH.


----------



## NoGoal

Surfref said:


> My Gun and Scuba Diving forums are both positive and helpful.  The volleyball forum that my sister (her daughters play) introduced me too does not have adults writing disparaging remarks about kids or college age players.  This soccer forum seems to be the only place that I have seen where adults are outright a-holes toward kids or make disparaging comments about a kid to try put down an adult poster.


The posters on the golf forum are so nice and helpful.  It was an environment I had to get use to after SoCal Soccer.  Hahahaha!

It didn’t matter if your a scratch or 30 hdcp golfer.  They all love the game and have respect for each other.  There are posters who postt their dislikes on certain brand name clubs though, lol!


----------



## Multi Sport

NoGoal said:


> Can you provide an elite NAIA academic university?  I can easily name a few D3 elite universities outside SoCal such as Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, and NYU.


It depends on the Major your looking for but since NAIA schools are small liberal arts schools it would be those subjects.  Off of the top of my head schools like George Fox in OR and Westmont here in So Cal offer great Elementary Education programs. If your kid wants to be a Dr. then an NAIA school is not gonna work.


----------



## Multi Sport

NoGoal said:


> Can you provide an elite NAIA academic university?  I can easily name a few D3 elite universities outside SoCal such as Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, and NYU.


You forgot a good D3.. John Hopkins. My daughter has a former teamate playing there.


----------



## outside!

It is Johns Hopkins. Two different people's last names.


----------



## Multi Sport

outside! said:


> It is Johns Hopkins. Two different people's last names.


Correct. They do also compete D1 in La Crosse.


----------



## Surfref

one


Sheriff Joe said:


> What kind of guns?


22, 9, 40, 45, 223(556), 240, 270, 375, and 12-guage.  Not a big fan of the AR or AK since they are such a pain in the ass to own in Cali and I only have one left that I plan to sell within the year. Highly prefer my Ruger Mini-14 5.56 18.5" (have backup tactical 16.1" barrel) over the AR/AK platforms.  I can shoot far more accurately and just as quick with it.  I really don't see the appeal of an AR if you cannot use it on burst or semi modes.  For a pistol I prefer S&W M&P 40 or 45, not really a 9mm fan but have a Beretta.  All of my pistols are S&W M&P so I can pick anyone up and they all feel the same in my hand with the only different being the kick. My Ruger .375 will drop just about anything smaller than a hippo. Highly recommend the Remington Model 783 in 270win for a deer and other game deer and smaller.  Really good for wild boar. And, the always dependable Rugger 10/22.  Now I am in the mood to go to the range after work and put a couple 100 rounds down range.

Okay, back to soccer.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Surfref said:


> one
> 
> 
> 22, 9, 40, 45, 223(556), 240, 270, 375, and 12-guage.  Not a big fan of the AR or AK since they are such a pain in the ass to own in Cali and I only have one left that I plan to sell within the year. Highly prefer my Ruger Mini-14 5.56 18.5" (have backup tactical 16.1" barrel) over the AR/AK platforms.  I can shoot far more accurately and just as quick with it.  I really don't see the appeal of an AR if you cannot use it on burst or semi modes.  For a pistol I prefer S&W M&P 40 or 45, not really a 9mm fan but have a Beretta.  All of my pistols are S&W M&P so I can pick anyone up and they all feel the same in my hand with the only different being the kick. My Ruger .375 will drop just about anything smaller than a hippo. Highly recommend the Remington Model 783 in 270win for a deer and other game deer and smaller.  Really good for wild boar. And, the always dependable Rugger 10/22.  Now I am in the mood to go to the range after work and put a couple 100 rounds down range.
> 
> Okay, back to soccer.


I am partial to Colts myself, big 1911/hi-power fan. I have an ar and love to shoot it, ca legal. weatherby 270 mag, 300 short mag and an old winchester 30-30.
I do also have a colt single action army customized by Bob Munden and 3 1911's.


----------



## Surfref

Sheriff Joe said:


> I am partial to Colts myself, big 1911/hi-power fan. I have an ar and love to shoot it, ca legal. weatherby 270 mag, 300 short mag and an old winchester 30-30.
> I do also have a colt single action army customized by Bob Munden and 3 1911's.


I had a Para Ordinance 1911, but sold it a couple years ago after having some problems with the hammer and I wanted to standardize my pistols.  The 1911and my S&W 45 will definitely stop someone or an animal in it's tracks.  The Beretta 9mm is the only non-S&W I own.  I shot a Weatherby 270 a couple years ago. Nice rifle and accurate.


----------



## mirage

The most prestigious D3 is MIT (except for crewing where its D1).

Other D3s worth noting are U of Chicago, Coast Guard Academy, Washington University in St. Louis, Vassar, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute amongst others.  Don't forget UC Santa Cruz is a D3 also.

Getting back to one of the comments about how we know many more D1's because of sports programs, its so true. If some the schools didn't have athletics, they would just be another college.  It really helps to be D1 in football and basketball.  TV coverage does wonders to people's awareness of names.


----------



## Multi Sport

NoGoal said:


> True and Cal Poly Pomona University being D2 isn’t difficult to gain admissions either with a 39% acceptance rate.  It is harder than Dominguez Hills, Cal State LA and San Bernardino though and harder than D1 Cal State Fullerton.


One of the top Landscape Architecture schools in the country.


----------



## espola

Multi Sport said:


> It depends on the Major your looking for but since NAIA schools are small liberal arts schools it would be those subjects.  Off of the top of my head schools like George Fox in OR and Westmont here in So Cal offer great Elementary Education programs. If your kid wants to be a Dr. then an NAIA school is not gonna work.


Embry-Riddle in Arizona is a tech school and plays in NAIA.


----------



## LASTMAN14

mirage said:


> The most prestigious D3 is MIT (except for crewing where its D1).
> 
> Other D3s worth noting are U of Chicago, Coast Guard Academy, Washington University in St. Louis, Vassar, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute amongst others.  Don't forget UC Santa Cruz is a D3 also.
> 
> Getting back to one of the comments about how we know many more D1's because of sports programs, its so true. If some the schools didn't have athletics, they would just be another college.  It really helps to be D1 in football and basketball.  TV coverage does wonders to people's awareness of names.


Claremont McKenna.


----------



## Zerodenero

mirage said:


> The most prestigious D3 is MIT (except for crewing where its D1).
> 
> Other D3s worth noting are U of Chicago, Coast Guard Academy, Washington University in St. Louis, Vassar, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute amongst others.  Don't forget UC Santa Cruz is a D3 also.
> 
> Getting back to one of the comments about how we know many more D1's because of sports programs, its so true. If some the schools didn't have athletics, they would just be another college.  It really helps to be D1 in football and basketball.  TV coverage does wonders to people's awareness of names.


Agreed.

When my kiddo narrowed her election to the final 3. MIT was her front runner. That coach (great dude) said as much as he'd like, he can't compete with players who are also being recruited by Ivy's (especially the big 3) bc he has zero pull/influence on admissions. He didn't have the curve that they have (aka- academic index for younger parents)

In the end, among other misc items i.e campus experience/broader student base..... A Bird in the hand was worth 2in the bush. 

Guess my point is in some circles/environments/industries, D3's go toe-to-toe w/big box brands.


----------



## Zerodenero

LASTMAN14 said:


> Claremont McKenna.


Since we're talking Pasadena.....don't forget the girls of CAL TECH...just a hop-skip-jump from JPL. Them girls are coming up And will rival Mr musk.


----------



## mirage

Both Claremont Colleges and CalTech were mentioned already so I skipped them.

Speaking of acceptance rate, Caltech maybe the hardest to get into.  They only admit around 300 freshman students.  The percentage is what you might expect (7~8%) but the number is so low its line of acceptance is a razor sharp.


----------



## LASTMAN14

M


mirage said:


> Both Claremont Colleges and CalTech were mentioned already so I skipped them.
> 
> Speaking of acceptance rate, Caltech maybe the hardest to get into.  They only admit around 300 freshman students.  The percentage is what you might expect (7~8%) but the number is so low its line of acceptance is a razor sharp.


A friend from years past went there and he was wicked smart. He got in because someone who was accepted dropped their acceptance to go elsewhere.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

NoGoal said:


> LMAO!


I just noticed something with your clubs, you have 2 putters. What's the deal?


----------



## NoGoal

Sheriff Joe said:


> I just noticed something with your clubs, you have 2 putters. What's the deal?


I actually collect Scotty Cameron putters, but game 2-3 of them.  So when one is acting up they get time out (closet) and they other comes out.   Seriously,  One is a copper insert, another is carbon steel, and other is a deep milled stainless steel.  All feel different coming off the club face.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

NoGoal said:


> I actually collect Scotty Cameron putters, but game 2-3 of them.  So when one is acting up they get time out (closet) and they other comes out.   Seriously,  One is a copper insert, another is carbon steel, and other is a deep milled stainless steel.  All feel different coming off the club face.


I have the same milspec.
Those Scotty tour Newport 1.5's are the bomb.


----------



## NoGoal

Sheriff Joe said:


> I have the same milspec.
> Those Scotty tour Newport 1.5's are the bomb.


The Scotty Cameron Mil-Spec are one of his best OTR (over the rack) putters he ever released, because it was made from carbon steel.  You will be pleasantly surprised how well they hold their value after 16-18 yrs.  A mint one which retailed new for $299 can be sold on EBay for $225-$250.  The Mil-Spec with the 350 grams head weight will go for almost $400 used as long it’s in good shape aka no bag chatter.  He has a Circle T exclusive line (tour only models) which cost $3000 to $15,000, which is technically the Mil-Spec model back in the day.  

His newer line of putters since 2016 with the aluminum inserts are garbage and why the older models hold their value well.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

NoGoal said:


> The Scotty Cameron Mil-Spec are one of his best OTR (over the rack) putters he ever released, because it was made from carbon steel.  You will be pleasantly surprised how well they hold their value after 16-18 yrs.  A mint one which retailed new for $299 can be sold on EBay for $225-$250.  The Mil-Spec with the 350 grams head weight will go for almost $400 used as long it’s in good shape aka no bag chatter.  He has a Circle T exclusive line (tour only models) which cost $3000 to $15,000, which is technically the Mil-Spec model back in the day.
> 
> His newer line of putters since 2016 with the aluminum inserts are garbage and why the older models hold their value well.


Beautiful


----------



## NoGoal

Sheriff Joe said:


> Beautiful
> View attachment 3018


This one should be in a museum gallery.


----------



## SD_Soccer

Back to recruiting.  This is geared for those not at the elite level (e.g., National team level).  This is geared for those who love playing soccer, want to play in college and want to get a good education.  For them, there are choices to be made (location, level, etc.) and work to be done off the pitch.

Factors to consider and things to focus on (not in rank order) in the college recruiting process:

1. Education Interests-- make certain they look up schools and know what majors they offer.  Really, this is a first step to knowing what they may want to do in life and then ensuring any schools that express interest in them or they consider reaching out to match.  And I would encourage you to ensure there are other options for them besides what they believe they want to major in (e.g., many change their majors and/or career thoughts once they get to school, so ensure there are plan B or C majors offered by this school).

2. Financial Assistance and Your Willingness to Pay-- this can be in Athletic Money (not if you are speaking with D3 schools!), Need-Based Aid and/or Merit-Based Aid depending on the university.  Know your family's situation and ensure that universities your child speaks with meet them.  For example, if your family would not meet need-based aid, and you don't want to pay the high costs of some schools (schools like Carnegie Mellon, Cal Tech, the Claremont Schools, Vassar, etc. do not offer any merit-based aid and are not cheap), then you should eliminate these from consideration.  Understand what is reasonable for your family, what you could qualify and then find the right matches.  For us, we used the cost of attending a Univ. of CA without any financial aid as a baseline to compare against.

3. Location-- will they be ok going to school in random places in the US?  A small town in the middle of the Midwest that they would never visit if not for soccer?  We are coming from Southern California, and many schools are in far less desirable locations, to put it mildly.  The difficulty in getting home if they are hours from an airport and there are no direct flights home.  And while this is not about the parents, do you want to go to their school for an entire weekend to watch a couple of games?  One thing to look at, how many players are going to this school from Southern California, and are they staying at the school or do they all transfer?  This can help expand or limit your search.

4. Think Total Costs, Not Just Education Costs-- keep in mind, not just the cost of attending, but the costs in getting your child to and from school.  Or if your family would like to go visit and watch games, factor that into your calculation.

4. How Important is Playing Time?-- some are ok with not playing much their first couple of years (or ever), others would not do well sitting on the bench.  Truly understand how a player fits in with a team and if that would work for them.  Along with location, I suspect many of the transfers occur because players "reached" for a school and they were not ready to contribute right away and they struggled with sitting on the bench.

5. How Important Is Winning?-- going to a program that consistently loses is not likely to change with them coming in (unless you see progress happening in the previous years, such as a new coach who is in their 2nd or 3rd year and there is improvement you can see in their results on the field).  Some will deal better with losing than others.  If being on a winning team is important, this will help eliminate schools.

6. D1, D2 or D3 is Not That Important-- I know, this is crazy talk.  Again, I am not guiding this for the national team players.  And this is not about us parents!  This is not for us to brag about, "my child is going to play soccer at a D1 school".  There is a fallacy that all division 1 schools are better than division 2, which are then better than division 3.  An assistant coach at the school my child will attend said their team (D3) would have beat many of the D1 teams their university (a consistent top 10 D1 program with many National Championships) played against in non-league games.  Bottom end D1 programs are not the same as Stanford-- both in terms of soccer and education.

7. Put Education First-- Many of the top universities in the US are D3 schools-- Carnegie Mellon, WashU in St. Louis, NYU, MIT, Cal Tech, etc.  Getting a degree from a directional school is not going to have as much value as one from any of the above.  And pPlaying soccer is not going to be a career for most players.  So find a university that offers as good an education and post-graduate network opportunities as possible that is also financially reasonable for you and your child.  But also be realistic in what schools you contact.  I did the college coordination for my child's team last year, and an Ivy League coach noted that he received emails from players who had a 3.00 GPAs and lower (so this coach never signed up before going to a showcase to avoid the flood of emails from unqualified players-- they wanted people who wanted their school and sought them out).  Nothing wrong with that GPA, but it will not get you into an Ivy League University.  

8. Focus on Academics While in High School-- this is probably obvious, but the better their grades and the better their test scores, the more opportunity they will have for money not based on their soccer skills or your financial situation.  D1 schools only offer about 50% scholarships on average given scholarship limits and the number of players they carry, so having great academics is a great way to get money/savings for your family.  But back to #2, you need to know which schools offer merit-based aid or other merit-based scholarships may be available to your child.

9. Does Size Matter?-- some prefer a small school, others a large school-- and some may be open to either.  Before connecting with schools, know what your child could envision for their college experience.  Best way is to take them to colleges and give them different examples.  Great thing is we have tons in close proximity of different sizes (UCLA, USC, UCSD, San Diego St., Chapman, Redlands, Cal Poly Pomona, etc.).  If they really are not sure, take a couple hours when you have a game near some of the schools and walk on these campuses or take the official tour.

10. Parents Play a Role in Guiding the Process-- I viewed my role as a coach, editor, advisor, reminder, etc.  My child sent emails to the coaches, spoke on the phone with them, etc.  There were times I drafted emails (but only for invites to come watch games, or introduction emails where we had a template from earlier emails, and my child always read and edited them to their liking with something specific about the school and the soccer program).  Any on-going interactions were always done by my child, but I usually helped to edit them. 

11. Recruiting is a Two-Way Street-- technically, the colleges are recruiting players.  But in reality and in most cases, the players also need to recruit coaches.  Players really need to be diligent about reaching out to schools.  My child was in the right showcases and with a nationally branded club, but generally coaches come to watch the players who show an interest in their school and their team.  Again, for the non-national level player, they have to put in time to "recruit" the coaches to come watch them.  When they do send emails, they should know about the team, about the university and send communications to the coach with specifics (the generic email you send to 50 schools will often not get attention, especially if you do not have a club name with a lot of cache).

12. Enjoy the Process-- it really is a lot of work for your child and likely you.  But you also get to spend more time with them on something important to them that will help create a stronger bond.  And it could also help you out financially, so their is a potential financial ROI, too.

Hope it helps.  We had a great college advisor at one club, but we also learned a lot of this going through the process.  Hope it helps some starting the process now.


----------



## outside!

Great post by SD_Soccer. I would add one point.

13. Find out about the academic culture of the school. Some schools encourage competition between students to the point that if a player misses a class, none of the other students will help with notes or even let them know what homework was assigned. Other schools encourage a more cooperative atmosphere. I heard a story last night about a professor at UCSD telling a friend to not send their child there. The professor said it is so competitive during the freshman and sophomore years and that there are so many foreign students that do nothing else other than study 100% of the time that it does not offer a good "College Experience" for students. I my opinion, there is more to be learned at college than just how to study.


----------



## Multi Sport

Another great question to ask is what is the graduation rate of their student athlete's..


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Multi Sport said:


> Another great question to ask is what is the graduation rate of their student athlete's..


Maybe the ideology of the university should be taken into consideration.


----------



## mirage

outside! said:


> Great post by SD_Soccer. I would add one point.
> 
> 13. Find out about the academic culture of the school. Some schools encourage competition between students.........I heard a story last night about a professor at UCSD telling a friend to not send their child there. The professor said it is so competitive during the freshman and sophomore years and that there are so many foreign students that do nothing else other than study 100% of the time that it does not offer a good "College Experience" for students.....


The fact is every (well known and highly regarded) school is competitive for students.  It really doesn't matter what the major is.  Given the acceptance criteria, one would have to be completely out of touch to assume its not competitive in the classrooms.

I believe students will get out whatever they put into it, in terms of college experience, regardless of size.  It will be different for each school, but from the expectation perspective, the reason for selecting a particular school will come through, if student wants it.

As for UCSD, like all UC's, is competitive but I always felt that UCSD was laid back UC campus compared to UCLA or Cal. 

All I'm saying is that keep comments like what you'd heard in perspective and in context.  As far as we know, the "friend" being told not to send their kid there may have less than stellar GPA and may not be a fit for rigorous institution.  That doesn't mean that its exceptionally competitive than others.  It is out of context to make the statement as said in the post.


----------



## mirage

SD_Soccer said:


> Back to recruiting.  This is geared for those not at the elite level (e.g., National team level).....


Nice post but it reads like something out of one of the recruiting services website.  Having gone through it ourselves, I firmly believe that we all get there - perhaps in many different ways.

What's missing in the list is the whole contingency - plan B, if you'd like.

Suppose one goes through and does everything right, and made all the right decision all the way up to the final school acceptance (by them), only to find out that the kid wasn't accepted (Ivys, MIT, CalTech, JsHs and so on) because the coach has a vote, but there are multiple votes and ends up thumbs down.

The coach recruited you is now gone.  Before you even start your first preseason camp.  Whole new coaching staff or new head coach that completely has a different playing style and philosophy for players.  One can simply say, if you'd picked the school first, then it shouldn't matter because even if the coach changes, you're in the door.  Right?

There are literally hundreds of players that goes through these scenarios every year.  These are not discussed openly for whatever reasons and not publicized.

So always be accepted into multiple schools and have gone through recruiting process with all of them.  If the first choice falters for whatever reason, one can now goto another accepted school with a familiar coaches and try to walk-on at a minimum, if its not too late to commit to the new school.  If too late, there's always transfer but one needs to be a known quality to have a good chance to make the team.

So when you think you've done everything right, and complete, don't take your eyes off the road until the final destination is reached....


----------



## Soccer43

also, one other comment - where you land may not be anything at all like what you thought about early on but ends up being the perfect fit and opportunity.  Stay open, research and explore and pursue and you will find your dream achieved.


----------



## goldentoe

Here are some things to consider for those with incoming freshies:

1.  The season starts quick; it's fast and furious.  The recruiting process is over.  The battle begins.  The coach is not there to be your kid's  friend.
2.  I've seen plenty of GREAT players who didn't get much playing time their freshman year.
3.  Heard great stories of many who stuck with it to make a huge impact in the following years.
4.  Remember, a lot of kids in the Socal area played for some pretty great soccer minds.  Not every college soccer coach is a guru, and your player may have already played for the best coach they ever will.
5.  If you pick a school solely based on soccer, soccer scholarship $, or the coach (a lot of people do this)  but don't take into consideration academics, location, and student life you could be in for a transfer.

Best of luck to all.  Here's to them all staying healthy and focused.


----------



## Surfref

Hope no one is going to UCSD.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sd-sp-ucsd-soccer-ncaa-violations-20180809-story.html


----------



## espola

Surfref said:


> Hope no one is going to UCSD.
> http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sd-sp-ucsd-soccer-ncaa-violations-20180809-story.html


Mark Ziegler at U-T says McManus told him that the violations involved giving the team "pizza money".


----------



## RiverRat

Soccer43 said:


> From some of my experience so far it seems a couple NT players with full scholarships and much reduced % for others - many with a combination of financial need and academic scholarships and then many with $0.


You are wrong.


----------



## Soccer43

and what is your experience then?  How can you say I am wrong when this is what our experience has been - direct communication with many colleges that have expressed this and DOC's from club confirming.

If there are 14 scholarships and 30 + on the roster how do you see that playing out?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

My advice is that if your daughter has multiple offers, don’t forget to negotiate with the one she is going to choose.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Recruiting dead week today through August 17th.  No calls, texts or anything.  Enjoy the week!


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Is that official?  I looked up on line and this is what it said for this year:

Women’s Soccer Dead Periods  December 15, 2018 - January 5, 2019.  November 12-15, 2018 (Monday through Thursday of the initial week for the signing of the National Letter of Intent).


----------



## mirage

espola said:


> Mark Ziegler at U-T says McManus told him that the violations involved giving the team "pizza money".


Story said it was "infraction" so its not a major violation.  Probably low monetary amount so its probably a metaphor to say "pizza money".

The fact that BM was dismissed implies more than pizza money.  There must have been more to the story.

By self disclosing the infraction to NCAA, the remedy will most likely less severe.

To say hope no one is going to UCSD is a bit of an over statement, don't you think?  Its a fine institution with excellent academic credentials.  It is a university and is still D2 today, and is a non-TV, non-revenue generating sports.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

mirage said:


> Story said it was "infraction" so its not a major violation.  Probably low monetary amount so its probably a metaphor to say "pizza money".
> 
> The fact that BM was dismissed implies more than pizza money.  There must have been more to the story.
> 
> By self disclosing the infraction to NCAA, the remedy will most likely less severe.
> 
> To say hope no one is going to UCSD is a bit of an over statement, don't you think?  Its a fine institution with excellent academic credentials.  It is a university and is still D2 today, and is a non-TV, non-revenue generating sports.


They are in transition to D1.  I believe they start play in the Big West starting in 2020.  Then they have a 4 year ban on any post season.  Add that they will have a new head coach and who knows what that means for the long-term assistants and it makes it very difficult for any 2019's to commit.


----------



## outside!

Simisoccerfan said:


> They are in transition to D1.  I believe they start play in the Big West starting in 2020.  Then they have a 4 year ban on any post season.  Add that they will have a new head coach and who knows what that means for the long-term assistants and it makes it very difficult for any 2019's to commit.


I hope it does not have a negative effect on the current players and incoming freshman.


----------



## espola

mirage said:


> Story said it was "infraction" so its not a major violation.  Probably low monetary amount so its probably a metaphor to say "pizza money".
> 
> The fact that BM was dismissed implies more than pizza money.  There must have been more to the story.
> 
> By self disclosing the infraction to NCAA, the remedy will most likely less severe.
> 
> To say hope no one is going to UCSD is a bit of an over statement, don't you think?  Its a fine institution with excellent academic credentials.  It is a university and is still D2 today, and is a non-TV, non-revenue generating sports.


He wasn't dismissed - he resigned as coach and retired from the University.  McManus had already announced he was retiring soon.  Maybe he saw this as the last straw.

"It was over a period of the last few years, once or maybe twice a season after late-night games the players would go for pizza and I would give them money out of my pocket – $50 or $60. That’s it."

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sd-sp-ucsd-womens-soccer-brian-mcmanus-pizza-20180810-story.html​
NCAA regulations are not often written with the benefit of the student-athletes in mind.


----------



## mirage

First and foremost, this is women's soccer at a college.  Not D1 basketball or football looking at $$$$$ at professional sports after college.  From student's perspective, what is the number one priority?



Simisoccerfan said:


> ..... it makes it very difficult for any 2019's to commit.


If UCSD is the right school educationally, then so what.  You would not select a school of choice because of soccer coaching change and exclusion from NCAA tournament after 2020 for 4 years??



outside! said:


> I hope it does not have a negative effect on the current players and incoming freshman.


Will psychologically have impact, most likely, but in the context of the big picture, what are alternatives... The program is not being terminated.  There is a new coaching search.  Coaches change all the time.


----------



## outside!

espola said:


> NCAA regulations are not often written with the benefit of the student-athletes in mind.


That would imply that some are written with the benefit of the student-athletes in mind.


----------



## mirage

espola said:


> He wasn't dismissed - he resigned as coach and retired from the University.  McManus had already announced he was retiring soon.  Maybe he saw this as the last straw.
> 
> "It was over a period of the last few years, once or maybe twice a season after late-night games the players would go for pizza and I would give them money out of my pocket – $50 or $60. That’s it."
> 
> http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sd-sp-ucsd-womens-soccer-brian-mcmanus-pizza-20180810-story.html​
> NCAA regulations are not often written with the benefit of the student-athletes in mind.


If he resigned, its a matter of formality.  It clearly reads that they were going to have to take action.

Having worked in the aerospace industry for years dealing with the government personnel and ethics laws involving public servants, I clearly understand the intent and ridiculousness of implementation due to language. NCAA rules are bit like that too - I get it.  

Its too bad that he is forced out on a trivial rule.  It amounts to $2~3/player per incidence.  If he did it 10x, then its $20~30/player over time.  Given the precedence, he would not have been required to be forced out.  Sounds like the school overreacted a bit, if its truly only pizza money as indicated.

At the end of the story, it quotes the following:

"The most famous NCAA infractions case involving pizza came in the early 2000s at Utah with Rick Majerus, the legendary men’s basketball coach who died in 2012. He was accused of paying for players’ meals after practice and during film sessions, constituting impermissible benefits.

Thomas Yeager, the head of the NCAA infractions committee, admitted “these were not five-course meals or steak meals at the finest restaurant in town.” Utah was penalized a basketball scholarship while Majerus was ordered to attend a regional NCAA compliance seminar.

“I guess the only thing I should have done was said, ‘You owe me $9 for the ham and eggs and sausage,’” Majerus said at the time. “I’ve got to think with my head and not with my heart.”


----------



## espola

mirage said:


> If he resigned, its a matter of formality.  It clearly reads that they were going to have to take action.
> 
> Having worked in the aerospace industry for years dealing with the government personnel and ethics laws involving public servants, I clearly understand the intent and ridiculousness of implementation due to language. NCAA rules are bit like that too - I get it.
> 
> Its too bad that he is forced out on a trivial rule.  It amounts to $2~3/player per incidence.  If he did it 10x, then its $20~30/player over time.  Given the precedence, he would not have been required to be forced out.  Sounds like the school overreacted a bit, if its truly only pizza money as indicated.
> 
> At the end of the story, it quotes the following:
> 
> "The most famous NCAA infractions case involving pizza came in the early 2000s at Utah with Rick Majerus, the legendary men’s basketball coach who died in 2012. He was accused of paying for players’ meals after practice and during film sessions, constituting impermissible benefits.
> 
> Thomas Yeager, the head of the NCAA infractions committee, admitted “these were not five-course meals or steak meals at the finest restaurant in town.” Utah was penalized a basketball scholarship while Majerus was ordered to attend a regional NCAA compliance seminar.
> 
> “I guess the only thing I should have done was said, ‘You owe me $9 for the ham and eggs and sausage,’” Majerus said at the time. “I’ve got to think with my head and not with my heart.”


My son ran afoul of NCAA regulations even before he enrolled.  A few days before practice started his Freshman year, he accepted an invitation to preseason "captain's camp".  For a few days before the dorm rooms were provided for incoming players, he slept on a sofa in the team captain's apartment - and didn't pay any rent.  The campus compliance officer found out about it and informed him of his violation of "receiving impermissible benefits".  His punishment was to make a small donation to a charity  (breast cancer research, I think).   I didn't hear if anyone else was cited. 

A few years later, a high school teammate visited the campus, and I got a chance to laugh at a few other NCAA restrictions.  His official visit was going to time out before a Sunday afternoon game, so the Assistant Coach made sure he was off campus in time - across the street at a drug store parking lot.  I met him there and took him into the game.  That same weekend, I had taken them both out to dinner and the visitor gave me $10 so that I was not giving him a benefit by buying his meal.


----------



## Justafan

espola said:


> My son ran afoul of NCAA regulations even before he enrolled.  A few days before practice started his Freshman year, he accepted an invitation to preseason "captain's camp".  For a few days before the dorm rooms were provided for incoming players, he slept on a sofa in the team captain's apartment - and didn't pay any rent.  The campus compliance officer found out about it and informed him of his violation of "receiving impermissible benefits".  His punishment was to make a small donation to a charity  (breast cancer research, I think).   I didn't hear if anyone else was cited.
> 
> A few years later, a high school teammate visited the campus, and I got a chance to laugh at a few other NCAA restrictions.  His official visit was going to time out before a Sunday afternoon game, so the Assistant Coach made sure he was off campus in time - across the street at a drug store parking lot.  I met him there and took him into the game.  That same weekend, I had taken them both out to dinner and the visitor gave me $10 so that I was not giving him a benefit by buying his meal.


You co-conspirator you.


----------



## SocalPapa

My impression of USCD is they always recruited well because they were the strongest DII school academically in So Cal.  Will that translate to DI?  Even absent the playoff ban, I hadn't pegged them them as an NCAA tournament team right away.


----------



## outside!

They will also rank very strong academically among SoCal D1 schools, so who knows what may happen in a few years? They certainly will rank above SDSU academically, and perhaps on the pitch as well in a few years.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I agree but this news likely sets them back a year since this turmoil has to hurt their recruiting for the 2019 class.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

At the risk of being attacked again by Soccer43 I will share that my daughter committed today!   It has been a long road but finally getting her the exposure of playing DA (ECNL would have offered the same exposure) made the difference.  Multiple coaches have told us that they wish she had moved to ECNL earlier in her career.  Instead we stayed at our smaller club one or two years too long.   Frankly, I had bought into the philosophy that it does not matter what league she plays in, the coaches will find her.   While in concept this can happen, in reality is it much easier getting there playing ECNL or DA because that is where the coaches go to recruit.  The good news is that we did move and it all worked out.  She is going to get to study the major of her choice and still play soccer at a school of her choice.


----------



## mirage

SocalPapa said:


> My impression of USCD is they always recruited well because they were the strongest DII school academically in So Cal.  Will that translate to DI?  Even absent the playoff ban, I hadn't pegged them them as an NCAA tournament team right away.


Are they NCAA tournament banned?

I thought I read that they were not eligible for the first 4 years once accepted into D1 as a part of a probationary period thing.  

Maybe you mean the same thing but since the post follows the coach thing, I didn't know if you think they are tied together in some way.

As for D2 being lesser competitive teams than D1, not true as a whole.  I believe, like many do, top tier D2 programs are competitive against most D1 programs, except against the top D1 programs in soccer.  Not the case of basketball or football though....


----------



## SocalPapa

mirage said:


> Are they NCAA tournament banned?
> 
> I thought I read that they were not eligible for the first 4 years once accepted into D1 as a part of a probationary period thing.
> 
> Maybe you mean the same thing but since the post follows the coach thing, I didn't know if you think they are tied together in some way.
> 
> As for D2 being lesser competitive teams than D1, not true as a whole.  I believe, like many do, top tier D2 programs are competitive against most D1 programs, except against the top D1 programs in soccer.  Not the case of basketball or football though....


I misunderstood.  I thought the 4 year ban was part of the pizza money sanction, and would go into effect once they started in D1.  But I see now what you are saying.  They just aren't allowed to play in the D2 playoffs once word of their D1 acceptance came in.   Makes sense. 

And I didn't mean to imply that D2 teams can't be as competitive as D1.  But D1 requires a much greater commitment of time than D1.  If you are a top player who also is very focused on academics, I'm not sure UC San Diego would be as attractive as a D1 school.  I know my own daughter crossed it off her list because of this.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> At the risk of being attacked again by Soccer43 I will share that my daughter committed today!   It has been a long road but finally getting her the exposure of playing DA (ECNL would have offered the same exposure) made the difference.  Multiple coaches have told us that they wish she had moved to ECNL earlier in her career.  Instead we stayed at our smaller club one or two years too long.   Frankly, I had bought into the philosophy that it does not matter what league she plays in, the coaches will find her.   While in concept this can happen, in reality is it much easier getting there playing ECNL or DA because that is where the coaches go to recruit.  The good news is that we did move and it all worked out.  She is going to get to study the major of her choice and still play soccer at a school of her choice.



Congratulations!!  Now the hard work really begins!


----------



## SocalPapa

Simisoccerfan said:


> At the risk of being attacked again by Soccer43 I will share that my daughter committed today!   It has been a long road but finally getting her the exposure of playing DA (ECNL would have offered the same exposure) made the difference.  Multiple coaches have told us that they wish she had moved to ECNL earlier in her career.  Instead we stayed at our smaller club one or two years too long.   Frankly, I had bought into the philosophy that it does not matter what league she plays in, the coaches will find her.   While in concept this can happen, in reality is it much easier getting there playing ECNL or DA because that is where the coaches go to recruit.  The good news is that we did move and it all worked out.  She is going to get to study the major of her choice and still play soccer at a school of her choice.


Congrats to your DD @Simisoccerfan!


----------



## Mystery Train

Simisoccerfan said:


> At the risk of being attacked again by Soccer43 I will share that my daughter committed today!   It has been a long road but finally getting her the exposure of playing DA (ECNL would have offered the same exposure) made the difference.  Multiple coaches have told us that they wish she had moved to ECNL earlier in her career.  Instead we stayed at our smaller club one or two years too long.   Frankly, I had bought into the philosophy that it does not matter what league she plays in, the coaches will find her.   While in concept this can happen, in reality is it much easier getting there playing ECNL or DA because that is where the coaches go to recruit.  The good news is that we did move and it all worked out.  She is going to get to study the major of her choice and still play soccer at a school of her choice.


Congrats to your player!  Best of luck to her on the next part of her journey.


----------



## CaliKlines

Simisoccerfan said:


> At the risk of being attacked again by Soccer43 I will share that my daughter committed today!


Nice! Every path is unique...I’m glad she found hers!


----------



## GoWest

Simisoccerfan said:


> At the risk of being attacked again by Soccer43 I will share that my daughter committed today!   It has been a long road but finally getting her the exposure of playing DA (ECNL would have offered the same exposure) made the difference.  Multiple coaches have told us that they wish she had moved to ECNL earlier in her career.  Instead we stayed at our smaller club one or two years too long.   Frankly, I had bought into the philosophy that it does not matter what league she plays in, the coaches will find her.   While in concept this can happen, in reality is it much easier getting there playing ECNL or DA because that is where the coaches go to recruit.  The good news is that we did move and it all worked out.  She is going to get to study the major of her choice and still play soccer at a school of her choice.


Fantastic! Congrats! Good words too. All the best for you and your DD!


----------



## Soccerfan2

Simisoccerfan said:


> At the risk of being attacked again by Soccer43 I will share that my daughter committed today!   It has been a long road but finally getting her the exposure of playing DA (ECNL would have offered the same exposure) made the difference.  Multiple coaches have told us that they wish she had moved to ECNL earlier in her career.  Instead we stayed at our smaller club one or two years too long.   Frankly, I had bought into the philosophy that it does not matter what league she plays in, the coaches will find her.   While in concept this can happen, in reality is it much easier getting there playing ECNL or DA because that is where the coaches go to recruit.  The good news is that we did move and it all worked out.  She is going to get to study the major of her choice and still play soccer at a school of her choice.


Congrats!!!


----------



## gkrent

Simisoccerfan said:


> At the risk of being attacked again by Soccer43 I will share that my daughter committed today!   It has been a long road but finally getting her the exposure of playing DA (ECNL would have offered the same exposure) made the difference.  Multiple coaches have told us that they wish she had moved to ECNL earlier in her career.  Instead we stayed at our smaller club one or two years too long.   Frankly, I had bought into the philosophy that it does not matter what league she plays in, the coaches will find her.   While in concept this can happen, in reality is it much easier getting there playing ECNL or DA because that is where the coaches go to recruit.  The good news is that we did move and it all worked out.  She is going to get to study the major of her choice and still play soccer at a school of her choice.


Well don’t keep us in suspense!  At least change your avatar or something to give us a clue   Congrats to you DD!


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## Simisoccerfan

gkrent said:


> Well don’t keep us in suspense!  At least change your avatar or something to give us a clue   Congrats to you DD!


Good advice!  Thanks


----------



## Surfref

Simisoccerfan said:


> Good advice!  Thanks


Congrats, JMU is a great school. I have a lot of family and friends in that part of the country, Virginia, West Virginia and Pennsylvania.  Beautiful area and lots of historical places within a couple hours drive.  Just make sure you get her properly outfitted for the bitter cold and snow.  We were back to visit family near Cambersburg, PA and Charlottesville, VA and it was f’ing freezing with 6-8 feet of snow.


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## outside!

Simisoccerfan said:


> ...I will share that my daughter committed today!


Congrats to your DD Simi! You now have a few years to practice not crying when you drop her off at the dorms. Good luck with that.


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## Simisoccerfan

outside! said:


> Congrats to your DD Simi! You now have a few years to practice not crying when you drop her off at the dorms. Good luck with that.


I will get some practice next week when I drop her older sister off at college.


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## outside!

Deep breaths, deep breaths.


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## Soccer43

Simisoccerfan said:


> At the risk of being attacked again by Soccer43 I will share that my daughter committed today!   It has been a long road but finally getting her the exposure of playing DA (ECNL would have offered the same exposure) made the difference.  Multiple coaches have told us that they wish she had moved to ECNL earlier in her career.  Instead we stayed at our smaller club one or two years too long.   Frankly, I had bought into the philosophy that it does not matter what league she plays in, the coaches will find her.   While in concept this can happen, in reality is it much easier getting there playing ECNL or DA because that is where the coaches go to recruit.  The good news is that we did move and it all worked out.  She is going to get to study the major of her choice and still play soccer at a school of her choice.


Congrats to your daughter - it can be a long and challenging road no matter what level your DD plays.  It is a big accomplishment and the coach there is great.  It absolutely matters if you play on ECNL/DA.  It isn't impossible to get recruited but it is much more challenging if your player is not on a top team in one of those leagues.  

btw - I am not that simple and don't be so easily offended- I don't just go around bashing posters, go back and read your original post compared to how other people post about the recruiting process - I stand by what I said - By listing all the individual colleges and where you were visiting it did not come across well whether you meant it that way or not.  And I have been attacked on this forum also, it goes with the territory with posting anything on a public forum that allows for anonymity.


----------



## GoWest

I previously posted this on another thread under the 'college recruiting' tab but I think this is the better thread to seek some insight:

What's the take on the 'new NCAA recruiting rules' with regard to a coach giving a prospect a campus tour while in season (if that even makes a difference) and if doable, are there any limitations as far as amount of time spent on tour, etc.? DD and I have an opportunity for a road trip and want to make the best if it. Thanks in advance for the insight.


----------



## Mystery Train

GoWest said:


> I previously posted this on another thread under the 'college recruiting' tab but I think this is the better thread to seek some insight:
> 
> What's the take on the 'new NCAA recruiting rules' with regard to a coach giving a prospect a campus tour while in season (if that even makes a difference) and if doable, are there any limitations as far as amount of time spent on tour, etc.? DD and I have an opportunity for a road trip and want to make the best if it. Thanks in advance for the insight.


I have this exact same question...


----------



## MWN

@GoWest, age/HS grade of athlete (Junior, Senior, etc.).  Its my understanding that for D1 starting the Junior year, official visits (coach involved, lodging, etc.) can occur on September 1.  The changes are designed to allow the student/athlete to have an experience that mirrors the student body in order to make a more informed decision.


----------



## Toepoke

GoWest said:


> I previously posted this on another thread under the 'college recruiting' tab but I think this is the better thread to seek some insight:
> 
> What's the take on the 'new NCAA recruiting rules' with regard to a coach giving a prospect a campus tour while in season (if that even makes a difference) and if doable, are there any limitations as far as amount of time spent on tour, etc.? DD and I have an opportunity for a road trip and want to make the best if it. Thanks in advance for the insight.


Check out these links:  D1 recruiting D2 recruiting D3 recruiting
As far as I know there is really no time frame if it's an unofficial visit.


----------



## Toepoke

Here's another link with good info: http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/resources/recruiting-calendars?division=d1


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## GoWest

@MWN and @Toepoke --- Thanks! Insight and info links are perfect to help us move forward with reckless abandon LOL 

Mucho appreciation!


----------



## Dubs

GoWest said:


> I previously posted this on another thread under the 'college recruiting' tab but I think this is the better thread to seek some insight:
> 
> What's the take on the 'new NCAA recruiting rules' with regard to a coach giving a prospect a campus tour while in season (if that even makes a difference) and if doable, are there any limitations as far as amount of time spent on tour, etc.? DD and I have an opportunity for a road trip and want to make the best if it. Thanks in advance for the insight.


From what I understand, unless your DD is a Junior, she can't technically have an "unofficial" visit with the coaching staff involved.  For kids that are younger than Junior year, they are getting around this with "1-day" clinics/camps where campus tours are part of the schedule.  My DD was just invited to one and she's a Sophomore, so this appears to be the approach now.


----------



## beachbum

Toepoke said:


> Check out these links:  D1 recruiting D2 recruiting D3 recruiting
> As far as I know there is really no time frame if it's an unofficial visit.



https://usatodayhss.com/2018/what-new-d1-recruiting-rules-mean-for-unofficial-visits

Here is an excerpt from the article
*What are the new D1 rules regarding unofficial visits?*
The basics of the unofficial visit are unchanged. An unofficial visit is one in which the family foots the bill for a campus visit. Families can still take unofficial visits as early and as often as the student-athletes want. But the new rules prohibit coaches and athletic departments from participating in the student-athlete’s unofficial visit until Sept. 1 of the recruit’s junior year in high school.  Previously during an official visit, the athlete could talk to a coach (except during a dead period on the recruiting calendar). The athlete might even receive an early verbal offer. Now, if a freshman or sophomore student-athlete happens to encounter a coach during their unofficial visit, they cannot have any recruiting conversations.

According to the new rules, student-athletes can still receive up to three free home sporting event tickets (prospects from families in which parents are divorced or separated may receive two additional free admissions). If the sporting venue is off-campus, the school can provide transportation within a 30-mile radius.




The basics are completely different.  When our family did our unofficials a coach gave the tour, we met with academic advisors, trainers, got to see the facilities, go on the field with the team before a game, talk to the staff and get a general feel for them and the institution. Now you can't do this until your junior year.  Who are these idiots that make these rules.  If i want to spend the money to visit to see if it's a good fit for my dd, then the staff should be able to spend time with the recruit.  Its good for the school to see if the recruit is a good fit for the team and it's good for the recruit to see if the school/staff is a goof fit for them.  You can then spread those visits with various schools out over 2 or 3 years.  Now the change forces you to do it on your own(visiting without any interaction with the coaching staff/facilities prior to your junior year) or cram it in your junior and senior year. If you want to change something significant change when you are allowed to make verbal offers.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

It's ridiculous that girls are committing before their Junior year.  14, 15, and 16 year old girls should not be put in the position to make these decisions so early.   Let them grow up some more before they need to decide where they want to spend 4 years of their life and what major they want to study.   Plus there is no guarantee that coaches recruiting them will even be still at the school by the time the finally get there.   In our process we had several coaches tell us that they wish they still had money or spots upon for their 2019 class but they way the system works right now they have to be focused on the 2020 and 2021 classes already.   

With the new rules banning in person recruiting discussions really anywhere before the start of the Junior year all that is left the ability to talk to a coach via a phone call initiated by the player.   Now girls will be pressured to verbally commit early without ever having an in person recruiting discussion because the top schools will not want to wait unit the start of the Junior year.   I personally believe they should just come out and ban any sort of recruiting discussions prior to the start of the Junior year in any format.

Also don't expect that schools will pay for your recruiting trip.  It's unlikely since you only get one paid trip to a school (and only 5 trips to D1's).  Most schools will want to use this trip during your kids senior year to bring all of the commits in together at once.


----------



## beachbum

Simisoccerfan said:


> It's ridiculous that girls are committing before their Junior year.  14, 15, and 16 year old girls should not be put in the position to make these decisions so early.   Let them grow up some more before they need to decide where they want to spend 4 years of their life and what major they want to study.   Plus there is no guarantee that coaches recruiting them will even be still at the school by the time the finally get there.   In our process we had several coaches tell us that they wish they still had money or spots upon for their 2019 class but they way the system works right now they have to be focused on the 2020 and 2021 classes already.
> 
> With the new rules banning in person recruiting discussions really anywhere before the start of the Junior year all that is left the ability to talk to a coach via a phone call initiated by the player.   Now girls will be pressured to verbally commit early without ever having an in person recruiting discussion because the top schools will not want to wait unit the start of the Junior year.   I personally believe they should just come out and ban any sort of recruiting discussions prior to the start of the Junior year in any format.
> 
> Also don't expect that schools will pay for your recruiting trip.  It's unlikely since you only get one paid trip to a school (and only 5 trips to D1's).  Most schools will want to use this trip during your kids senior year to bring all of the commits in together at once.


I agree that offers and commits should not be allowed until Junior year but i did like the flexibility of being able to visit the campus, being shown the facilities and getting to meet the staff on campus at my expense.  That way you can spread the cost over several years and you don't have to scramble their junior year to see the various campus's.  If you did allow the unofficial visit's from freshman year on but did not allow offers and commits it would be better for everyone.  Colleges wouldn't feel like they have to take chances on 8th, 9th and 10th graders and student/players wouldn't have to make a decision before they are prepared or mature enough to make that decision.  It seems simple to me but that's just my opinion, i'm sure others would disagree.

I also haven't heard of any woman's soccer program paying for an official "recruiting" visit except in the case that you mentioned, bringing all of the commits together during their senior year.  If anyone has had a different experience I would like to hear about it.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

beachbum said:


> I agree that offers and commits should not be allowed until Junior year but i did like the flexibility of being able to visit the campus, being shown the facilities and getting to meet the staff on campus at my expense.  That way you can spread the cost over several years and you don't have to scramble their junior year to see the various campus's.  If you did allow the unofficial visit's from freshman year on but did not allow offers and commits it would be better for everyone.  Colleges wouldn't feel like they have to take chances on 8th, 9th and 10th graders and student/players wouldn't have to make a decision before they are prepared or mature enough to make that decision.  It seems simple to me but that's just my opinion, i'm sure others would disagree.
> 
> I also haven't heard of any woman's soccer program paying for an official "recruiting" visit except in the case that you mentioned, bringing all of the commits together during their senior year.  If anyone has had a different experience I would like to hear about it.


You can still visit before the start of their Junior year.  Just schedule your visit for the schools open visitor day and you will be shown around.   The coach just can't be involved.  You won't get to see inside the locker room or get a presentation for the coach but you can see enough to know whether you kid would be interested.   

We did have one Power 5 D1 school offer to pay the cost of a recruiting trip.  This was not a school my dd had written.  It was very late in their recruiting cycle and they had very little money left.  This school is super expensive.  I think they offered to pay for the trip since they had little else left to offer.  We declined to visit.


----------



## End of the Line

I don’t think anyone wants to decide as a freshman or early sophomore, but I suspect bad things will happen if neither the college coach nor the kid can obtain any firsthand knowledge about each other until start of junior year.  First, I don't like the extremely compressed timeframe to meet coaches, go on visits, and commit under pressure before roster spots fill up that the NCAA seems to be pushing.  Before the rule changes, families at least had time to visit as many mutually-interested coaches and their programs as they wanted for at least a year without running a risk that roster spots would be gone in a span of days or weeks.  That's a much more leisurely pace compared to the NCAA's current direction.  It also means club coaches will turn even more into de facto agents, and families will need to rely even more on them to identify who is a good fit, whose personalities mesh, and also broker visits the first couple weeks of junior year in anticipation of the inevitable free-for-all starting the first day of recruiting, when kids should instead be focusing on school and the SAT and college coaches on soccer season.  There’s already a lot of reliance on club coaches, but at least we were able to meet coaches and form our own opinions.  And the new rules haven't seemed to deter kids from committing early, only they're presumably committing now without having ever met the coach or visited the program.  How is that a good thing?

I get that freshman year is early to decide where to go to college but, in reality, does it really matter most of the time?  The schools that fill all their roster spots with freshman and sophomores are not exactly the types of institutions that are ever a bad idea.  Sure, the coach might leave, but that’s surprisingly unusual in girls soccer and, well, s**t happens.  Personally, I'd rather run that risk than the risk under the new rules that she can't commit until junior year but blows out her knee as a sophomore and misses out on guaranteed admission to a elite academic school and the money they offered her as a freshman.

There's no perfect solution for everyone, but I think limiting a family’s access to information that is critical to making an important life decision for their kid is a really bad idea, and even worse when you replace it with the judgment of a youth soccer coach.  It’s better to face the reality that everyone has a pretty good idea during freshman year of HS what kind of player a girl will be in college, and to have rules that work based on reality.  In the elite girls soccer player demographic, kids rarely jump the rails and fail to qualify academically, commit a felony, give up soccer, get fat unexpectedly or develop substance abuse problems.  Maybe they don't turn out as great as expected, but rarely do HS freshman commits end up being so bad  in college that they aren't helpful.  But even if half seriously underperform, a college still has 15 kids on the roster playing as expected or better, and that’s plenty.  Which means colleges will always at least scout 8-10th graders whether we think it’s too early or not, and they’ll be ready to drop all their offers the first day of junior year or use, which will inevitably turn into the kind of free-for-all that isn’t good for anyone.


----------



## Zerodenero

End of the Line said:


> I don’t think anyone wants to decide as a freshman or early sophomore, but I suspect bad things will happen if neither the college coach nor the kid can obtain any firsthand knowledge about each other until start of junior year.  First, I don't like the extremely compressed timeframe to meet coaches, go on visits, and commit under pressure before roster spots fill up that the NCAA seems to be pushing.  Before the rule changes, families at least had time to visit as many mutually-interested coaches and their programs as they wanted for at least a year without running a risk that roster spots would be gone in a span of days or weeks.  That's a much more leisurely pace compared to the NCAA's current direction.  It also means club coaches will turn even more into de facto agents, and families will need to rely even more on them to identify who is a good fit, whose personalities mesh, and also broker visits the first couple weeks of junior year in anticipation of the inevitable free-for-all starting the first day of recruiting, when kids should instead be focusing on school and the SAT and college coaches on soccer season.  There’s already a lot of reliance on club coaches, but at least we were able to meet coaches and form our own opinions.  And the new rules haven't seemed to deter kids from committing early, only they're presumably committing now without having ever met the coach or visited the program.  How is that a good thing?
> 
> I get that freshman year is early to decide where to go to college but, in reality, does it really matter most of the time?  The schools that fill all their roster spots with freshman and sophomores are not exactly the types of institutions that are ever a bad idea.  Sure, the coach might leave, but that’s surprisingly unusual in girls soccer and, well, s**t happens.  Personally, I'd rather run that risk than the risk under the new rules that she can't commit until junior year but blows out her knee as a sophomore and misses out on guaranteed admission to a elite academic school and the money they offered her as a freshman.
> 
> There's no perfect solution for everyone, but I think limiting a family’s access to information that is critical to making an important life decision for their kid is a really bad idea, and even worse when you replace it with the judgment of a youth soccer coach.  It’s better to face the reality that everyone has a pretty good idea during freshman year of HS what kind of player a girl will be in college, and to have rules that work based on reality.  In the elite girls soccer player demographic, kids rarely jump the rails and fail to qualify academically, commit a felony, give up soccer, get fat unexpectedly or develop substance abuse problems.  Maybe they don't turn out as great as expected, but rarely do HS freshman commits end up being so bad  in college that they aren't helpful.  But even if half seriously underperform, a college still has 15 kids on the roster playing as expected or better, and that’s plenty.  Which means colleges will always at least scout 8-10th graders whether we think it’s too early or not, and they’ll be ready to drop all their offers the first day of junior year or use, which will inevitably turn into the kind of free-for-all that isn’t good for anyone.


Truth.


----------



## shales1002

End of the Line said:


> I don’t think anyone wants to decide as a freshman or early sophomore, but I suspect bad things will happen if neither the college coach nor the kid can obtain any firsthand knowledge about each other until start of junior year.  First, I don't like the extremely compressed timeframe to meet coaches, go on visits, and commit under pressure before roster spots fill up that the NCAA seems to be pushing.  Before the rule changes, families at least had time to visit as many mutually-interested coaches and their programs as they wanted for at least a year without running a risk that roster spots would be gone in a span of days or weeks.  That's a much more leisurely pace compared to the NCAA's current direction.  It also means club coaches will turn even more into de facto agents, and families will need to rely even more on them to identify who is a good fit, whose personalities mesh, and also broker visits the first couple weeks of junior year in anticipation of the inevitable free-for-all starting the first day of recruiting, when kids should instead be focusing on school and the SAT and college coaches on soccer season.  There’s already a lot of reliance on club coaches, but at least we were able to meet coaches and form our own opinions.  And the new rules haven't seemed to deter kids from committing early, only they're presumably committing now without having ever met the coach or visited the program.  How is that a good thing?
> 
> I get that freshman year is early to decide where to go to college but, in reality, does it really matter most of the time?  The schools that fill all their roster spots with freshman and sophomores are not exactly the types of institutions that are ever a bad idea.  Sure, the coach might leave, but that’s surprisingly unusual in girls soccer and, well, s**t happens.  Personally, I'd rather run that risk than the risk under the new rules that she can't commit until junior year but blows out her knee as a sophomore and misses out on guaranteed admission to a elite academic school and the money they offered her as a freshman.
> 
> There's no perfect solution for everyone, but I think limiting a family’s access to information that is critical to making an important life decision for their kid is a really bad idea, and even worse when you replace it with the judgment of a youth soccer coach.  It’s better to face the reality that everyone has a pretty good idea during freshman year of HS what kind of player a girl will be in college, and to have rules that work based on reality.  In the elite girls soccer player demographic, kids rarely jump the rails and fail to qualify academically, commit a felony, give up soccer, get fat unexpectedly or develop substance abuse problems.  Maybe they don't turn out as great as expected, but rarely do HS freshman commits end up being so bad  in college that they aren't helpful.  But even if half seriously underperform, a college still has 15 kids on the roster playing as expected or better, and that’s plenty.  Which means colleges will always at least scout 8-10th graders whether we think it’s too early or not, and they’ll be ready to drop all their offers the first day of junior year or use, which will inevitably turn into the kind of free-for-all that isn’t good for anyone.



Most of this years Freshman commits started the process prior to the rule change. So, it’s not as blind as one might thing. But, you are right, I would rather my DD roll the dice earlier on. Like you said anything can happen.


----------



## jojosoccer

Do my baby is away as a college freshman this year.
They are 5 weeks into soccer/ school and said everyone is getting home sick. Even the local girls. They love the team and even their classes.
I never noticed this when my boys left to school 
Is this a girl thing? Anyone else noticing homesickness 4-6 weeks in?
Many tell me it takes about 2 months to get through it.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Not yet.  My eldest is a freshmen (not playing college soccer) and I have not seen her in 4 weeks (Facetime does not count).  It's likely harder on me then her.


----------



## MWN

jojosoccer said:


> Do my baby is away as a college freshman this year.
> They are 5 weeks into soccer/ school and said everyone is getting home sick. Even the local girls. They love the team and even their classes.
> I never noticed this when my boys left to school
> Is this a girl thing? Anyone else noticing homesickness 4-6 weeks in?
> Many tell me it takes about 2 months to get through it.


Dropped my daughter off at Cal Poly SLO 4 days ago, seriously home sick and its only been 3 days of being there without parents.  Her twin (Cal State San Marcos) handled it by ghosting us, she just killed us in her mind and was fine ... so there is that solution.


----------



## Kicknit22

Can college coaches respond to emails from Junior prospects at this point, or no?


----------



## CaliKlines

Kicknit22 said:


> Can college coaches respond to emails from Junior prospects at this point, or no?


Yes, emails can be sent from a college coach starting a prospect’s junior year of high school. Prior to that, email communication from the coach is filtered thru the club coach.


----------



## Kicknit22

Thanks Cali.


----------



## vivamexico

MakeAPlay said:


> I figured that I would create a place for parents that have been through the process to share insights and answer questions for parents just starting the process or looking ahead to the start of the process.  With so much misinformation out there I thought that having a thread to sort it out might be useful.


Is there an age or year restriction on when a college can talk to a player while they are in High School? New to this. Thanks.


----------



## espola

vivamexico said:


> Is there an age or year restriction on when a college can talk to a player while they are in High School? New to this. Thanks.


Player and parents can initiate communication at any time.  There are restrictions when a coach or school representative can contact a player, but not the other way.


----------



## gkrent

vivamexico said:


> Is there an age or year restriction on when a college can talk to a player while they are in High School? New to this. Thanks.


Coaches and staff from a college cannot initiate contact until Sept 1 of player's junior year.


----------



## Dos Equis

espola said:


> Player and parents can initiate communication at any time.  There are restrictions when a coach or school representative can contact a player, but not the other way.


Remember, they cannot reply to you, call you back, or talk specifics about your recruiting off their campus until junior year. So a call from your player to them, at a time arranged by your club coach, is really the best way to initiate early contact. 

If you do not think your club coach able to arrange this, your player is older than 12, and they want to play in college, change teams to one that can.


----------



## Soccer43

beachbum said:


> I also haven't heard of any woman's soccer program paying for an official "recruiting" visit except in the case that you mentioned, bringing all of the commits together during their senior year.  If anyone has had a different experience I would like to hear about it.


It isn't common but does happen.  Depends on your player and the school and what the situation is.  There are many pathways and circumstances.


----------



## gkrent

beachbum said:


> I also haven't heard of any woman's soccer program paying for an official "recruiting" visit except in the case that you mentioned, bringing all of the commits together during their senior year.  If anyone has had a different experience I would like to hear about it.


One of my players went on THREE in 2010.  All were paid including airfare.   She didn't commit until December of her senior year so yes, it does happen.


----------



## casper

I remember for years seeing parents and players U10-U13 wearing Stanford, North Carolina, UCLA, USC, Virginia, and whoever else was one of the top teams in the country.  I always said during those ages if you asked a parent or player where do you plan on going to school? Almost all said a top 10 program.  It's no wonder every year when our daughters get to HS age and start the recruiting process parents and players are I'll prepared for the reality of how difficult it is to play women's college socccer, only 9% make it and only 2% make a D1 school.  So if your daughter is one of the 9% who play college soccer or the 2% that plays D1 congrats on an incredible accomplishment and if your daughter is one of the 91% that don't make it for whatever reasons injury, burn out, or never got recruited you are in the overwhelming majority.   http://www.scholarshipstats.com/soccer.html


----------



## Dubs

casper said:


> I remember for years seeing parents and players U10-U13 wearing Stanford, North Carolina, UCLA, USC, Virginia, and whoever else was one of the top teams in the country.  I always said during those ages if you asked a parent or player where do you plan on going to school? Almost all said a top 10 program.  It's no wonder every year when our daughters get to HS age and start the recruiting process parents and players are I'll prepared for the reality of how difficult it is to play women's college socccer, only 9% make it and only 2% make a D1 school.  So if your daughter is one of the 9% who play college soccer or the 2% that plays D1 congrats on an incredible accomplishment and if your daughter is one of the 91% that don't make it for whatever reasons injury, burn out, or never got recruited you are in the overwhelming majority.   http://www.scholarshipstats.com/soccer.html


I wonder what the percentages/ratios are for getting recruited to play for a Power 5 conference program?  Less than 1%?


----------



## Dummy

Dubs said:


> I wonder what the percentages/ratios are for getting recruited to play for a Power 5 conference program?  Less than 1%?


Even among the Power 5 conferences, only a few of those teams are actually competing for an NCAA championship.  You can determine the numerator for this group without needing a calculator.  It is a meaningful denominator that is hard to figure to try to calculate any of these percentages.


----------



## espola

Dubs said:


> I wonder what the percentages/ratios are for getting recruited to play for a Power 5 conference program?  Less than 1%?


"Power 5" is meaningless outside of football and basketball.


----------



## Dos Equis

espola said:


> "Power 5" is meaningless outside of football and basketball.


On the men’s side, perhaps. On the women’s soccer side, NCAA tourney and College Cup is dominated by Power 5. And the men’s football and basketball programs you mention provide the money, and Title XI provides the motivation and need, for these schools to spend top $ on coaching, facilities, travel and higher overall budgets for women’s athletic programs.


----------



## CaliKlines

espola said:


> "Power 5" is meaningless outside of football and basketball.


Most incorrect statement you’ve ever written. Power 5 conferences dominate the upper echelon of women’s soccer. Also, the revenue generating sports help fund the other programs, as 2 Equis mentioned. Plus many P5 schools enjoy an elevated sense of school spirit.


----------



## espola

CaliKlines said:


> Most incorrect statement you’ve ever written. Power 5 conferences dominate the upper echelon of women’s soccer. Also, the revenue generating sports help fund the other programs, as 2 Equis mentioned. Plus many P5 schools enjoy an elevated sense of school spirit.


Is that an NC State logo I see by your name?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Power 5 conferences all pay total cost on their scholarships to athletes.  This is anywhere between $4k to $6k prorated based on the percent scholarship above what most other schools pay out.   On the plus side I recently learned my dd's future college is going to pay total cost to all athletes starting next year.


----------



## Playmaker38

Simisoccerfan said:


> Power 5 conferences all pay total cost on their scholarships to athletes.  This is anywhere between $4k to $6k prorated based on the percent scholarship above what most other schools pay out.   On the plus side I recently learned my dd's future college is going to pay total cost to all athletes starting next year.


Do you mean to say that all athletes will receive total cost of attendance? Or, the overall value of a full ride will get to cost of attendance and in following the value of any percentage scholarship will increase?


----------



## espola

Simisoccerfan said:


> Power 5 conferences all pay total cost on their scholarships to athletes.  This is anywhere between $4k to $6k prorated based on the percent scholarship above what most other schools pay out.   On the plus side I recently learned my dd's future college is going to pay total cost to all athletes starting next year.


Are they ignoring the NCAA scholarship limits?


----------



## davin

espola said:


> "Power 5" is meaningless outside of football and basketball.


Power 5 conferences offer things that the other conferences cannot match, regardless of the sport. For example, scholarships for Power 5 conferences in any sport are guaranteed for 4 years. In other conferences, the scholarships are year to year and can be pulled at the end of the year. Also, Power 5 conferences now provide medical treatment to student-athletes for at least two years after they leave school. Power 5 is far from meaningless.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

espola said:


> Are they ignoring the NCAA scholarship limits?


No.  A few years ago the rules changed to allow colleges to offer total cost in addition to Tuition, Room, Board, Fees, and Books that they were previously allowed to offer.  It was up to the schools on whether they implemented it.  All Power 5 schools implemented it for all of their sport programs.  If someone is on a 50% scholarship they get 50% of the total cost also.   Other non Power 5 schools have not started to offer it to stay competitive in the recruiting process.


----------



## espola

davin said:


> Power 5 conferences offer things that the other conferences cannot match, regardless of the sport. For example, scholarships for Power 5 conferences in any sport are guaranteed for 4 years. In other conferences, the scholarships are year to year and can be pulled at the end of the year. Also, Power 5 conferences now provide medical treatment to student-athletes for at least two years after they leave school. Power 5 is far from meaningless.


No non-power-5 schools offer this?


----------



## davin

espola said:


> No non-power-5 schools offer this?


Some may, but I don't know of any. These are Power 5 conference rules, so they are mandated for every Power 5 conference school. No other conference can claim this.


----------



## full90

Not all power 5 schools do it. For w soccer some coaches don’t offer that extra cost of attendance money. Idk if they can then use it for other kids or what but a good friends dd was on a full ride at a pac -12 and was never offered the extra cost of attendance money. She is now at a non power 5 and has cost of attendance cash. (Some of the pac 12 schools are really hurting for money. There are some major issues on the horizon for schools out west here. Do some digging to read about the problems some pac 12 schools are facing). 

And fwiw I know a few pac 12 coaches that will absolutely take someone’s money. Who knows if they label it “rule breaking” or what but kids who aren’t producing but have big money are dealt with. It still happens even with the 4 year guarantee.


----------



## davin

full90 said:


> Not all power 5 schools do it. For w soccer some coaches don’t offer that extra cost of attendance money. Idk if they can then use it for other kids or what but a good friends dd was on a full ride at a pac -12 and was never offered the extra cost of attendance money. She is now at a non power 5 and has cost of attendance cash. (Some of the pac 12 schools are really hurting for money. There are some major issues on the horizon for schools out west here. Do some digging to read about the problems some pac 12 schools are facing).
> 
> And fwiw I know a few pac 12 coaches that will absolutely take someone’s money. Who knows if they label it “rule breaking” or what but kids who aren’t producing but have big money are dealt with. It still happens even with the 4 year guarantee.


I don't doubt it. There are shitty people out there, and some of these shitty people are college coaches who don't live up to promises and are willing to break rules in order to look out for their own self-interest while, totally disregarding the interests of their student-athletes.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Simisoccerfan said:


> No.  A few years ago the rules changed to allow colleges to offer total cost in addition to Tuition, Room, Board, Fees, and Books that they were previously allowed to offer.  It was up to the schools on whether they implemented it.  All Power 5 schools implemented it for all of their sport programs.  If someone is on a 50% scholarship they get 50% of the total cost also.   Other non Power 5 schools have not started to offer it to stay competitive in the recruiting process.


Are power 5 schools allowed to offer cost of attendance with any scholarship or is it automatic? How does scholarship level affect cost of attendance?  Full scholarship equals full cost of attendance as calculated by financial aid office and then it’s prorated below that, or??


----------



## stuckin

davin said:


> I don't doubt it. There are shitty people out there, and some of these shitty people are college coaches who don't live up to promises and are willing to break rules in order to look out for their own self-interest while, totally disregarding the interests of their student-athletes.


That's why the rule is stupid. The crap coaches that will take a kid's money will still take a kid's money. The ones with integrity will honor their word...whether or not there is a rule. And the rule hamstrings coaches with kids who get somewhere and then don't put in the work. Or decide soccer is just meh but want to keep their money so they just do the bare minimum and coast. Not at all how the real world works. And a detriment to the kids there busting their butts who want a good team. Year to year is fine. Most coaches won't pull money unless it's needed and the jerks that do it needlessly or callously are still going to do it. Solving a problem that doesn't exist and trying to regulate the small amount of asshats with a global rule. Lame.


----------



## goldentoe

espola said:


> No non-power-5 schools offer this?


Yes, there are plenty of non-power 5 schools that offer cost of attendance.  COA is a little extra dough designated to cover expenses to live away from home.  A player can be on a 25% ride and still get COA.  Also, guaranteed scholarhsips are nice in the case of injury. I've heard of a few situations where coaches have made a non-contributing player's existence no fun at all.  Some coaches have their ways of pushing players away.  So yes, scholarhsip guaranteed, but quality of student athelete experience not.


----------



## espola

goldentoe said:


> Yes, there are plenty of non-power 5 schools that offer cost of attendance.  COA is a little extra dough designated to cover expenses to live away from home.  A player can be on a 25% ride and still get COA.  Also, guaranteed scholarhsips are nice in the case of injury. I've heard of a few situations where coaches have made a non-contributing player's existence no fun at all.  Some coaches have their ways of pushing players away.  So yes, scholarhsip guaranteed, but quality of student athelete experience not.


If you are getting cost of attendance, that's not a 25% scholarship.


----------



## gkrent

davin said:


> Some may, but I don't know of any. These are Power 5 conference rules, so they are mandated for every Power 5 conference school. No other conference can claim this.


I know of at least one WCC school that offers TCO


----------



## espola

davin said:


> Some may, but I don't know of any. These are Power 5 conference rules, so they are mandated for every Power 5 conference school. No other conference can claim this.


Did you find the kool-aid at the Power 5 schools to be more palatable than that served at the big soccer clubs?


----------



## davin

espola said:


> Did you find the kool-aid at the Power 5 schools to be more palatable than that served at the big soccer clubs?


No kool-aid drinking here. Just stating facts, that the P5 conferences have rules in place that other conferences don't.

Quit being a dick. That's why nobody here likes you, you old grumpy fart.


----------



## espola

davin said:


> No kool-aid drinking here. Just stating facts, that the P5 conferences have rules in place that other conferences don't.
> 
> Quit being a dick. That's why nobody here likes you, you old grumpy fart.


Nobody here likes me?
*espola  Likes received 806*

*Davin Likes received 78*


----------



## Torros

espola said:


> Nobody here likes me?
> *espola  Likes received 806*
> 
> *Davin Likes received 78*


Let's look a bit deeper. 

Espola: Post 9164
              Likes 806

Davin: Post 158
             Likes 78

Quality over quantity.

Plus it looks as though many of your likes came from a poster who had created multiple screen names so your percentage is even lower than what it appears.


----------



## espola

Torros said:


> Let's look a bit deeper.
> 
> Espola: Post 9164
> Likes 806
> 
> Davin: Post 158
> Likes 78
> 
> Quality over quantity.
> 
> Plus it looks as though many of your likes came from a poster who had created multiple screen names so your percentage is even lower than what it appears.


"looks as though"?  How does that work?


----------



## goldentoe

espola said:


> If you are getting cost of attendance, that's not a 25% scholarship.


Espola - I'm sure you know this, but just in case. Generally when a student athelete receives their offer they'll have their compensation broken down.  Tuition, housing, meals, books, COA, and academic money.  Cost of attendance is just one of the components that make up a scholarship.  COA is extra money allowed to cover stuff like clothing, toiletries, gas money, whatever incidentals you can think of.  Usually it's around 1000-3000 a semester. Maybe more, maybe less.  The term COA can also refer to a non-student athlete's full Cost to atttend a particular university, but in recent years it's also referred to as the supplemental scholarship money added by the Power 5 schools

Some schools hand it out.  I guess all Power 5s do.  You do not have to be on a full ride to get COA money, and the amount can vary from player to player.

Also, I'd really appreciate it if you clicked the "like" button.  I'm running about 92% like rate.  Thank you!


----------



## espola

goldentoe said:


> Espola - I'm sure you know this, but just in case. Generally when a student athelete receives their offer they'll have their compensation broken down.  Tuition, housing, meals, books, COA, and academic money.  Cost of attendance is just one of the components that make up a scholarship.  COA is extra money allowed to cover stuff like clothing, toiletries, gas money, whatever incidentals you can think of.  Usually it's around 1000-3000 a semester. Maybe more, maybe less.  The term COA can also refer to a non-student athlete's full Cost to atttend a particular university, but in recent years it's also referred to as the supplemental scholarship money added by the Power 5 schools
> 
> Some schools hand it out.  I guess all Power 5s do.  You do not have to be on a full ride to get COA money, and the amount can vary from player to player.
> 
> Also, I'd really appreciate it if you clicked the "like" button.  I'm running about 92% like rate.  Thank you!


The cost of attendance boost was a change in the NCAA formula of what was allowed to be included in a "full" scholarship.  It is not limited to just the "power 5" conferences.


----------



## socalkdg

What percentage of kids get 25%, 50%, 100% in women's soccer?   Are most 50%?


----------



## Playmaker38

socalkdg said:


> What percentage of kids get 25%, 50%, 100% in women's soccer?   Are most 50%?



That is too tough to answer. Each division 1 program has 14 full rides (100%) scholarships to distribute. 

Rosters range in size typically between 25 and up to the low 30s in some cases. 

A highly valued player (difference maker) would receive a larger scholarship offer than perhaps an in state end of the bench role player.

On many division 1 programs (lets say those less highly coveted than a top 25 program) it may take more money to attract those impact players. So if 3 players on a roster of 28 take full rides that only leaves 11 full rides to distribute between the remaining 25 players. The chances of that being equally distributed is minimal. 

Some schools will also back-end scholarships. Offer freshmen lower scholarship amounts with the caveat that if they produce it is likely there scholarship will be increased each year. 

There is no clear cut average on scholarships.


----------



## goldentoe

socalkdg said:


> What percentage of kids get 25%, 50%, 100% in women's soccer?   Are most 50%?


Plenty of people can chime in on this. I would say 50% is pretty common, but more players than you would think get 25-35%, and 80-100% rides are very rare. I'm referring purely to the athletic $$, as many schools have academic scholarships to enhance the package.  This is why grades and test scores are so important.  A player can be on a 30% athletic ride, but with the right GPA and ACT or SAT score they can pick up another 20-30%+  at some schools.  Coaches will often want to know about a player's grades right off the bat, as they will be figuring the academic money into the future financial proposal.


----------



## MakeAPlay

goldentoe said:


> Plenty of people can chime in on this. I would say 50% is pretty common, but more players than you would think get 25-35%, and 80-100% rides are very rare. I'm referring purely to the athletic $$, as many schools have academic scholarships to enhance the package.  This is why grades and test scores are so important.  A player can be on a 30% athletic ride, but with the right GPA and ACT or SAT score they can pick up another 20-30%+  at some schools.  Coaches will often want to know about a player's grades right off the bat, as they will be figuring the academic money into the future financial proposal.


I will chime in on this.  It varies greatly.  You would be surprised how many players just get book money or a nominal amount of money.  Even on the roster at top schools you can have several players getting 75%+, several getting 50% and many getting 25% or less.  Not to mention that an impact player can ask for more money than they originally got even if they got 50% or more originally.  Grades and need can help.  The Holy Grail at a particular top 3 in state private school is a national team player with a 4.0 and parents that make $60K or less a year.  That player will get a full ride that doesn't cost one cent of athletic money.


----------



## espola

Paddingtonsoccer said:


> What if the student comes to the table with a different kid of “aid” already that is applied to tuition?  Things like veterans benefits in states (CA) that provide for tuition waiver for kids of vets.  Can the scholarship that was calculated based upon tuition be applied to everything else but tuition?  Or in other words, if the player already isnt paying tuition, does that limit what they can receive?


If there is any student-athlete money, then the total money from all sources cannot exceed the NCAA-determined limit for the school.  Astute coaches can determine which of their players are eligible and likely to receive other aid from the school (such as academic, need-based, special circumstances like your veteran's kid example, etc).


----------



## espola

Torros said:


> Let's look a bit deeper.
> 
> Espola: Post 9164
> Likes 806
> 
> Davin: Post 158
> Likes 78
> 
> Quality over quantity.
> 
> Plus it looks as though many of your likes came from a poster who had created multiple screen names so your percentage is even lower than what it appears.


I just looked through several pages of my "Ratings Received".  It appears from a random sample that I receive more "Agree" and "Funny" ratings than "Like", and more "Like" than "Disagree" or "Dumb".


----------



## MakeAPlay

espola said:


> If there is any student-athlete money, then the total money from all sources cannot exceed the NCAA-determined limit for the school.  Astute coaches can determine which of their players are eligible and likely to receive other aid from the school (such as academic, need-based, special circumstances like your veteran's kid example, etc).


Also some kids have unused portions of their non-Athletic aid due to the amount of athletic aid that they received.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

We have an excellent starting deal that gets better on the back end.  They had more financial flexibility still open in the last two years.  Still waiting to hear about any academic money.  Daughter has great grades so we are hopeful.


----------



## SD_Soccer

My daughter is going to a strong academic D3 out of state program and is getting ~90% covered (tuition, room & board, books) from a merit-based scholarship.  Keep them focused on grades and entrance exams, too!


----------



## eastbaysoccer

25% athletic could be more common as not all D1 schools are alotted the full 14 scholarships.

IMO if your dd is getting 40%  or higher athletic that’s  pretty good.  Usually with high scores and grades academic merit could take the total amount offered to 70-80%.


----------



## Banana Hammock

MakeAPlay said:


> Also some kids have unused portions of their non-Athletic aid due to the amount of athletic aid that they received.


Is there  any preference given to kids that have non-athletic money, but still make the team, and save the coach money in the long run.  Along these lines, which money is used first, athletic or non-athletic?


----------



## MarkM

Can someone please point me to the rules regarding college ID camps and DA? I know this was recently discussed, but I can’t find the thread. Thanks in advance.


----------



## younothat

MarkM said:


> Can someone please point me to the rules regarding college ID camps and DA? I know this was recently discussed, but I can’t find the thread. Thanks in advance.


This is the thread about the topic: http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/id-camps-and-da-players.16430/

College Camp Policy
https://ussoccer.app.box.com/s/wk8nm2mwq34yvbbu548pvwywmdkklzju

Academy players will be permitted to attend winter college camps provided the Academy Coach has approved attendance. The following guidelines are in place
for college camps: 

a)The camp may be no longer than three days in length;
b)The player may only attend one camp per school per year;
c)The player may not attend a camp if it falls during the competitive season or is equal to 11 or less than one week prior to the start of the competitive DA season; and
d) College summer camps that fall outside of the DA season do not apply and players may attend such camps without needing to request a waiver

Basically just like B) says one camp per school per year.  Yes you can attend multiple camps at different schools just not multiple ones at the same school same school year.


----------



## espola

younothat said:


> This is the thread about the topic: http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/id-camps-and-da-players.16430/
> 
> College Camp Policy
> https://ussoccer.app.box.com/s/wk8nm2mwq34yvbbu548pvwywmdkklzju
> 
> Academy players will be permitted to attend winter college camps provided the Academy Coach has approved attendance. The following guidelines are in place
> for college camps:
> 
> a)The camp may be no longer than three days in length;
> b)The player may only attend one camp per school per year;
> c)The player may not attend a camp if it falls during the competitive season or is equal to 11 or less than one week prior to the start of the competitive DA season; and
> d) College summer camps that fall outside of the DA season do not apply and players may attend such camps without needing to request a waiver
> 
> Basically just like B) says one camp per school per year.  Yes you can attend multiple camps at different schools just not multiple ones at the same school same school year.


What does "or is equal to 11 or less than one week" mean?


----------



## MarkM

younothat said:


> This is the thread about the topic: http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/id-camps-and-da-players.16430/
> 
> College Camp Policy
> https://ussoccer.app.box.com/s/wk8nm2mwq34yvbbu548pvwywmdkklzju
> 
> Academy players will be permitted to attend winter college camps provided the Academy Coach has approved attendance. The following guidelines are in place
> for college camps:
> 
> a)The camp may be no longer than three days in length;
> b)The player may only attend one camp per school per year;
> c)The player may not attend a camp if it falls during the competitive season or is equal to 11 or less than one week prior to the start of the competitive DA season; and
> d) College summer camps that fall outside of the DA season do not apply and players may attend such camps without needing to request a waiver
> 
> Basically just like B) says one camp per school per year.  Yes you can attend multiple camps at different schools just not multiple ones at the same school same school year.


Perfect.  Thanks so much.  What is considered the “competitive season”?  Everything but the summer?


----------



## younothat

MarkM said:


> Perfect.  Thanks so much.  What is considered the “competitive season”?  Everything but the summer?


My interpretation of that is any time league season is in play,  there was a break from Dec-Jan for the boys at least and there was a bunch of ID camps going on during this time for example.   For the girls I understand the timing is different and the thread talks about that somewhat.  There is a spring break period



espola said:


> What does "or is equal to 11 or less than one week" mean?


Ha that's a character typo should read

" The player may not attend a camp if it falls during the competitive season or is equal to or less than one week prior to the start of the competitive DA season"


----------



## SMUfan

Santa Monica United FC College Weekend for Girls (Ages 2000-2004)

When:    March 9th & 10th (Las Vegas Players Showcase is the following weekend)
Where:   Windward School (11350 Palms Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90066)
Who:      University of Michigan
                Cornell
                Williams
                University of Chicago
                Carnegie Mellon 

Please see the link below to sign up:

https://www.santamonicaunited.com/page/show/3389381-santa-monica-united-college-weekend


----------



## MakeAPlay

Banana Hammock said:


> Is there  any preference given to kids that have non-athletic money, but still make the team, and save the coach money in the long run.  Along these lines, which money is used first, athletic or non-athletic?


From my experience the coach prefers players that are going to help immediately regardless of where the money comes from.  Athletic money is applied first.  Sometimes other money goes unused especially if the athlete gets a high percentage of athletic aid.  My rule of thumb is if college is going to cost you annually what it cost you in club or less than that, then you got a good deal.


----------



## jose

MakeAPlay said:


> It wasn't very hard for us to find coaches willing to allow her to play multiple positions.  I found that at the younger ages it is usually the parents that don't want their player at his/her less than optimum position.  We focused and her skill training, learning how to use her body and her effort to the ball.  We were lucky that our player was average sized up until about U13/14 so her coaches didn't pigeonhole her at any particular position.
> 
> I would make sure that the coach is aware that you appreciate your daughter moving around so that he/she is aware that you are okay with it.


why are the same 4 people giving you a 'dumb' rating?  i appreciate the info and think its helpful.  thanks


----------



## MakeAPlay

jose said:


> why are the same 4 people giving you a 'dumb' rating?  i appreciate the info and think its helpful.  thanks


It goes back a long way, some of it to the old forum.  In a nutshell there are some serious haters out there.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

NLI is finally here.  She is signing tomorrow night at home!  It was a shame she was excluded from her HS signing event.  Last year's MVP and league champion but can't play this year because of DA.  Every other girl on her DA team (different High Schools) was allowed to attend their HS event.  Our but hurt Athletic Director decided to exclude her even though she is their only D1 athlete.   Oh well.


----------



## outside!

Simisoccerfan said:


> NLI is finally here.  She is signing tomorrow night at home!  It was a shame she was excluded from her HS signing event.  Last year's MVP and league champion but can't play this year because of DA.  Every other girl on her DA team (different High Schools) was allowed to attend their HS event.  Our but hurt Athletic Director decided to exclude her even though she is their only D1 athlete.   Oh well.


Email the AD and mention Title IX and the fact that she is not getting the same opportunities as the athletes at other schools in the school system. CC the Principal and school district superintendent as well. Hell, you may as well CC the mayor, state representative, and governor as well. Can't hurt to try.

When DD attended NLI signing day at Petco Park with her school, there were female rowing, gymnastics and rugby athletes there representing their schools, and those are not high school sports.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

outside! said:


> Email the AD and mention Title IX and the fact that she is not getting the same opportunities as the athletes at other schools in the school system. CC the Principal and school district superintendent as well. Hell, you may as well CC the mayor, state representative, and governor as well. Can't hurt to try.
> 
> When DD attended NLI signing day at Petco Park with her school, there were female rowing, gymnastics and rugby athletes there representing their schools, and those are not high school sports.


Already emailed the AD and the Principal.  Pointed out that they let DA players attend last year.  AD told me that we chose our path and that he will only include athletes that are actively playing during their senior year.  We will do a nice event out our house tomorrow night with her teammates and friends.   School also has a new policy banning NLI girls from playing in the Powder Puff Football game.  She told me last night that she is going to play and she is going to tell them that it does not apply to her since they wouldn't recognize her.


----------



## outside!

Simisoccerfan said:


> Already emailed the AD and the Principal.  Pointed out that they let DA players attend last year.  AD told me that we chose our path and that he will only include athletes that are actively playing during their senior year.  We will do a nice event out our house tomorrow night with her teammates and friends.   School also has a new policy banning NLI girls from playing in the Powder Puff Football game.  She told me last night that she is going to play and she is going to tell them that it does not apply to her since they wouldn't recognize her.


That is BS. I still think you should elevate it to a level higher than the school. It is asshole DA's like this one that are responsible for discouraging a college scholarship for female athletes. Once again, this does not apply to football players since that sport does not have academies. Mention Title IX. Do you have any friends that are lawyers that can put it on letter head? I regret not pushing harder when we had issues with CIF. And the BS about "she made her choice" is just that, BS.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

outside! said:


> That is BS. I still think you should elevate it to a level higher than the school. It is asshole DA's like this one that are responsible for discouraging a college scholarship for female athletes. Once again, this does not apply to football players since that sport does not have academies. Mention Title IX. Do you have any friends that are lawyers that can put it on letter head? I regret not pushing harder when we had issues with CIF. And the BS about "she made her choice" is just that, BS.


I already expressed my displeasure with what they are doing.  I hoped that they would change their minds but I am not going to force them to honor her.   In my mind two wrongs don't make a right.  It just was a dick move not to recognize her in front of her peers and my understanding was that the coach had nothing to do with the decision.  It was all the AD.


----------



## outside!

I respect your decision, but pointing out Title IX violations is not wrong.


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## MakeAPlay

@Simisoccerfan 

Congrats to your player!!  She is going to LOVE her coach.  He is a straight shooter and is a great communicator and mentor.  Your player's high school AD is a prick and will get what is coming to him.  Being vindictive when it comes to minors brings tons of bad karma.  Mark my words.

Once again congratulations to your player and I applaud you for staying above the fray.  The AD will get his comeuppance...


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## Soccer43

I know this won't be a popular stance but why do you care about signing at her high school when she is not involved in high school sports?  The signing at the high school is about recognizing high school athletes, if you aren't involved in high school sports then who cares about all of that.  If I were in your situation I would have something special set up with her  DA team and coach.  That is what she is loving and most close to from all of your posts.  If I had nothing but disdain for high school sports I would not be interested in taking my player to the high school for this special occasion.  This isn't a comment about  the AD - most high school AD's are jerks so this is nothing new


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## fotos4u2

outside! said:


> I respect your decision, but pointing out Title IX violations is not wrong.


It is only a Title IX violation if BOYS DA players are also not excluded.  Football has nothing to do with it since they play high school so it's not equivalent.  It's also not equivalent if the sport isn't offered at the school (such as gymnastics, rugby...).

While it does suck, it seems the AD seems to be making a statement that they want to honor student athletes that go the extra mile and play for their school.  FWIW we know quite a few DA players (both boys and girls) who quit DA senior year so they could play for the high school and get the NLI fanfare.


----------



## espola

fotos4u2 said:


> It is only a Title IX violation if BOYS DA players are also not excluded.  Football has nothing to do with it since they play high school so it's not equivalent.  It's also not equivalent if the sport isn't offered at the school (such as gymnastics, rugby...).
> 
> While it does suck, it seems the AD seems to be making a statement that they want to honor student athletes that go the extra mile and play for their school.  FWIW we know quite a few DA players (both boys and girls) who quit DA senior year so they could play for the high school and get the NLI fanfare.


Among other reasons.


----------



## outside!

fotos4u2 said:


> It is only a Title IX violation if BOYS DA players are also not excluded.  Football has nothing to do with it since they play high school so it's not equivalent.  It's also not equivalent if the sport isn't offered at the school (such as gymnastics, rugby...).
> 
> While it does suck, it seems the AD seems to be making a statement that they want to honor student athletes that go the extra mile and play for their school.  FWIW we know quite a few DA players (both boys and girls) who quit DA senior year so they could play for the high school and get the NLI fanfare.


And if she played high school soccer before her senior year?


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## MarkM

fotos4u2 said:


> It is only a Title IX violation if BOYS DA players are also not excluded.  Football has nothing to do with it since they play high school so it's not equivalent.  It's also not equivalent if the sport isn't offered at the school (such as gymnastics, rugby...).
> 
> While it does suck, it seems the AD seems to be making a statement that they want to honor student athletes that go the extra mile and play for their school.  FWIW we know quite a few DA players (both boys and girls) who quit DA senior year so they could play for the high school and get the NLI fanfare.


So a school shouldn't honor a gymnast that gets an athletic scholarship because the gymnast chose not to play a sport offered by the high school?  As you say, the gymnast isn't going the extra mile to play for her/his school.


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## socalkdg

They have a college scholarship, they went to your school, they got good enough grades to make it into a college, who gives a rats poop if they played their senior year at the school.   Celebrate another fine High School Student advancing to college.   Sheesh.


----------



## MarkM

socalkdg said:


> They have a college scholarship, they went to your school, they got good enough grades to make it into a college, who gives a rats poop if they played their senior year at the school.   Celebrate another fine High School Student advancing to college.   Sheesh.


Well put.


----------



## Dos Equis

Simisoccerfan said:


> NLI is finally here.  She is signing tomorrow night at home!  It was a shame she was excluded from her HS signing event.  Last year's MVP and league champion but can't play this year because of DA.  Every other girl on her DA team (different High Schools) was allowed to attend their HS event.  Our but hurt Athletic Director decided to exclude her even though she is their only D1 athlete.   Oh well.


First, congratulations.  Well done to your daughter.  As for the AD's action, it is petty and not in the spirit of what high school sports is supposed to be about.  I am glad you appear to be taking the high road, because yelling "Title IX" is not helpful unless this is based on her sex, which this appears not to be.  

That being said, I would suggest her club dropped the ball by not having their own signing day for their players.  I am a proponent of clubs doing these in the evenings, having some food/snacks, buying the players their college sweatshirt/banner/pen (whatever the budget allows), as not all high schools hold them, and you have spent a lot to get there.


----------



## End of the Line

You cannot expect to receive accolades from a HS athletic department when you behave adversely to the HS athletic department.  They apparently took a stand against your daughter's support of and participation in an organization that is detrimental to HS and community sports.  Sure it's a little petty, but it is more petty for USSF to ban kids from playing HS soccer.  Your daughter picked sides with the evil empire, and high schools have every right to react accordingly.

But why is it that I suspect its decision had more to do with you than your daughter?  Can you really expect a HS AD to allow someone to participate in the NLI ceremony when their daddy has this to say online about the HS soccer team: "Instead of playing a miserable game in the rain tonight with a team that none of her friends play on anymore, she is in Florida with 15 of her best friends."

You think that kind of attitude doesn't get around?  In addition to that little gem, you also made sure to let everyone know your daughter was last year's MVP and is the school's "only DI athlete".  If that is the same approach you took with the school, it's no wonder they did not react positively to the argument that she should be allowed to participate because "my daughter is better than all of the losers you're letting attend NLI day".  You also went over the AD's head to the principal, then apparently contacted them through email rather than in person, and referred to the AD as "but [sic] hurt", when it is clear who is the one that's butt hurt.  From you have said about your handling of this situation, it is no wonder it didn't end well.

If you (or preferably your daughter), had gone to the AD early on and explained that it wasn't what you wanted, that USSF had misrepresented that you would be able to play HS but then threatened to expel her after you signed the contract and left her in an impossible situation, things might have ended differently.  Things certainly would have ended differently if your daughter had continued to help the HS team where she could and cheered from the bench during games.  Instead, according to your posts, she is too good for everyone at her school and would rather spend her time with her real friends.  And that's what she got.  When will you ever learn?


----------



## Dos Equis

End of the Line said:


> You cannot expect to receive accolades from a HS athletic department when you behave adversely to the HS athletic department.  They apparently took a stand against your daughter's support of and participation in an organization that is detrimental to HS and community sports.  Sure it's a little petty, but it is more petty for USSF to ban kids from playing HS soccer.  Your daughter picked sides with the evil empire, and high schools have every right to react accordingly.
> 
> But why is it that I suspect its decision had more to do with you than your daughter?  Can you really expect a HS AD to allow someone to participate in the NLI ceremony when their daddy has this to say online about the HS soccer team: "Instead of playing a miserable game in the rain tonight with a team that none of her friends play on anymore, she is in Florida with 15 of her best friends."
> 
> You think that kind of attitude doesn't get around?  In addition to that little gem, you also made sure to let everyone know your daughter was last year's MVP and is the school's "only DI athlete".  If that is the same approach you took with the school, it's no wonder they did not react positively to the argument that she should be allowed to participate because "my daughter is better than all of the losers you're letting attend NLI day".  You also went over the AD's head to the principal, then apparently contacted them through email rather than in person, and referred to the AD as "but [sic] hurt", when it is clear who is the one that's butt hurt.  From you have said about your handling of this situation, it is no wonder it didn't end well.
> 
> If you (or preferably your daughter), had gone to the AD early on and explained that it wasn't what you wanted, that USSF had misrepresented that you would be able to play HS but then threatened to expel her after you signed the contract and left her in an impossible situation, things might have ended differently.  Things certainly would have ended differently if your daughter had continued to help the HS team where she could and cheered from the bench during games.  Instead, according to your posts, she is too good for everyone at her school and would rather spend her time with her real friends.  And that's what she got.  When will you ever learn?


I am on record in my belief that high school soccer is an important part of this journey, particularly for girls, and disagree with the DA's policy.  Ironically, one of the pros of high school soccer for players, having their hard work and accomplishments recognized within the community (like NLI day), has been ridiculed by more than one US Soccer leader as not important.  

That being said, I would expect more from the adults in the school district, and do not support them holding the children accountable for the actions of their parents, if that was a factor.  

Whether you are able to play or not, your school team is always your team, and kids should endeavor to be a part of it in any way they can, even if the DA says they cannot train and play games.  Just as I believe kids should travel and attend their teams games and practices even when they are injured (unless they are rehabbing, unable, or cost is prohibitive), if my child was prevented from playing HS soccer by the DA, I would still expect them to try to be part of the team.

Perhaps that is one policy we should all consider as a response to this unfortunate circumstance.


----------



## jose

Simisoccerfan said:


> I already expressed my displeasure with what they are doing.  I hoped that they would change their minds but I am not going to force them to honor her.   In my mind two wrongs don't make a right.  It just was a dick move not to recognize her in front of her peers and my understanding was that the coach had nothing to do with the decision.  It was all the AD.


Go to the school district right away unless it is private.  get the media's attention. id do it just to jam it up their arse. It is a big moment for her


----------



## End of the Line

Dos Equis said:


> I am on record in my belief that high school soccer is an important part of this journey, particularly for girls, and disagree with the DA's policy.  Ironically, one of the pros of high school soccer for players, having their hard work and accomplishments recognized within the community (like NLI day), has been ridiculed by more than one US Soccer leader as not important.
> 
> That being said, I would expect more from the adults in the school district, and do not support them holding the children accountable for the actions of their parents, if that was a factor.
> 
> Whether you are able to play or not, your school team is always your team, and kids should endeavor to be a part of it in any way they can, even if the DA says they cannot train and play games.  Just as I believe kids should travel and attend their teams games and practices even when they are injured (unless they are rehabbing, unable, or cost is prohibitive), if my child was prevented from playing HS soccer by the DA, I would still expect them to try to be part of the team.
> 
> Perhaps that is one policy we should all consider as a response to this unfortunate circumstance.


I agree with everything you are saying.  In the end, the high school's decision is short-sighted and unlikely to deter anyone from playing DA, but it's also hard to blame them for holding the line in opposition to an unfair policy by doing the only thing within their control.  When the only steps available to oppose an unfair policy are petty, you often get pettiness.

I heard about a school district that responded to the HS ban by denying the entire club (DA and non-DA teams) access to field space at any school in the district.  If you thought that making road kill out of one kid trying to attend a NLI ceremony was harsh, imagine hundreds of U7-U12 kids paying the price for USSF's unfair HS ban.


----------



## outside!

End of the Line said:


> I agree with everything you are saying.  In the end, the high school's decision is short-sighted and unlikely to deter anyone from playing DA, but it's also hard to blame them for holding the line in opposition to an unfair policy by doing the only thing within their control.  When the only steps available to oppose an unfair policy are petty, you often get pettiness.
> 
> I heard about a school district that responded to the HS ban by denying the entire club (DA and non-DA teams) access to field space at any school in the district.  If you thought that making road kill out of one kid trying to attend a NLI ceremony was harsh, imagine hundreds of U7-U12 kids paying the price for USSF's unfair HS ban.


For the record, I believe the ban on HS soccer by the DA to be counter productive. Having said that, I do not see and have not seen the powers that be that determine all of the issues that govern HS soccer doing much of anything to improve the negative aspects. I still see new schools being built with fields that are too small that encourage more physical play. Most schools still use the 2 ref system, when football gets 5 to 7 referees. Athletic Directors actively discourage soccer players from getting opportunities to get a college scholarship (they are the ones that vote on CIF rules). I could go on and on, but soccer is still treated like the red headed step child of high school sports.


----------



## End of the Line

jose said:


> Go to the school district right away unless it is private.  get the media's attention. id do it just to jam it up their arse. It is a big moment for her


Be careful what you ask for.  The school district probably opposes the HS ban also and might decide the best solution is to retaliate on a greater scale against the club (see above) or even your kid since she's still at school through the end of the school year.  The HS has already proven it is petty, so what makes you think that poking the bear isn't going to make things worse?  As for media attention, are you not listening?  Let's say you get the hit piece you want and not an article about crazy soccer parents and stupid USSF policies.  Congratulations, you and your kid are now persona non grata in the neighborhood if you didn't already burn that bridge with your prior negative online commentary about the HS soccer team and AD.  How many times do I have to tell people that the best way to get what you want in life is to foster positive relationships with those who have control over what you want.  Don't threaten to sue them.  Don't trash them online.  Don't complain to the press.  If it's too late for you to get one thing, it's not too late for the next thing that you were too short-sighted to see coming down the road.  As I have previously told @Simisoccerfan, if you're going for the kill shot, you'd better hit.


----------



## MakeAPlay

End of the Line said:


> I agree with everything you are saying.  In the end, the high school's decision is short-sighted and unlikely to deter anyone from playing DA, but it's also hard to blame them for holding the line in opposition to an unfair policy by doing the only thing within their control.  When the only steps available to oppose an unfair policy are petty, you often get pettiness.
> 
> I heard about a school district that responded to the HS ban by denying the entire club (DA and non-DA teams) access to field space at any school in the district.  If you thought that making road kill out of one kid trying to attend a NLI ceremony was harsh, imagine hundreds of U7-U12 kids paying the price for USSF's unfair HS ban.


Sounds like a terrible school district.


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## End of the Line

MakeAPlay said:


> Sounds like a terrible school district.


A terrible national soccer organization, when combined with a terrible school district and a terrible soccer dad, makes for a toxic brew.  That is for sure.


----------



## MakeAPlay

End of the Line said:


> Be careful what you ask for.  The school district probably opposes the HS ban also and might decide the best solution is to retaliate on a greater scale against the club (see above) or even your kid since she's still at school through the end of the school year.  The HS has already proven it is petty, so what makes you think that poking the bear isn't going to make things worse?  As for media attention, are you not listening?  Let's say you get the hit piece you want and not an article about crazy soccer parents and stupid USSF policies.  Congratulations, you and your kid are now persona non grata in the neighborhood if you didn't already burn that bridge with your prior negative online commentary about the HS soccer team and AD.  How many times do I have to tell people that the best way to get what you want in life is to foster positive relationships with those who have control over what you want.  Don't threaten to sue them.  Don't trash them online.  Don't complain to the press.  If it's too late for you to get one thing, it's not too late for the next thing that you were too short-sighted to see coming down the road.  As I have previously told @Simisoccerfan, if you're going for the kill shot, you'd better hit.



Or you can show up at a board meeting for the school district and turn up the heat.  At the end of the day the AD messed up and was petty and is probably just some stupid gym teacher who is a hater.  Personally I would have raised hell.  My kid missed tons of her high school games due to ODP and YNT stuff and her AD, principal and coach were very supportive.  Maybe it is because this was south Orange County and all of the varsity players are club players (not to mention she played ECNL which shut down for the high school season locally).  Going away quietly isn't the way that I would want my kid to learn.  Teaching them that it is okay to be petty to punish kids or obsequious in order to get on somebody's good side is weak behavior in my opinion.


----------



## MakeAPlay

End of the Line said:


> A terrible national soccer organization, when combined with a terrible school district and a terrible soccer dad, makes for a toxic brew.  That is for sure.


@Simisoccerfan isn't a terrible soccer dad.  US Soccer does suck as an organization.  Kid's shouldn't be punished for what adults do...


----------



## End of the Line

MakeAPlay said:


> Or you can show up at a board meeting for the school district and turn up the heat.  At the end of the day the AD messed up and was petty and is probably just some stupid gym teacher who is a hater.  Personally I would have raised hell.  My kid missed tons of her high school games due to ODP and YNT stuff and her AD, principal and coach were very supportive.  Maybe it is because this was south Orange County and all of the varsity players are club players (not to mention she played ECNL which shut down for the high school season locally).  Going away quietly isn't the way that I would want my kid to learn.  Teaching them that it is okay to be petty to punish kids or obsequious in order to get on somebody's good side is weak behavior in my opinion.


Like I said earlier, if you go for the kill shot, you better hit. 

There is no doubt in my mind that your kid's AD, principal and coach were supportive at least in part because you and your daughter developed good relationships with them.  I'm not going to waste my time looking at your older posts, but I suspect you've never made a negative comment on this board about your kid's HS team, coach or AD.  The reason you're talking in hypotheticals about how you would handle a similar situation is because you never would have been in this predicament in the first place.  In fact, I'd probably agree that going scorched earth would be the right thing for you since you presumably established your credibility with the school and laid the groundwork necessary to ensure that the AD's decision was indefensible before you went that direction.


----------



## jose

End of the Line said:


> Be careful what you ask for.  The school district probably opposes the HS ban also and might decide the best solution is to retaliate on a greater scale against the club (see above) or even your kid since she's still at school through the end of the school year.  The HS has already proven it is petty, so what makes you think that poking the bear isn't going to make things worse?  As for media attention, are you not listening?  Let's say you get the hit piece you want and not an article about crazy soccer parents and stupid USSF policies.  Congratulations, you and your kid are now persona non grata in the neighborhood if you didn't already burn that bridge with your prior negative online commentary about the HS soccer team and AD.  How many times do I have to tell people that the best way to get what you want in life is to foster positive relationships with those who have control over what you want.  Don't threaten to sue them.  Don't trash them online.  Don't complain to the press.  If it's too late for you to get one thing, it's not too late for the next thing that you were too short-sighted to see coming down the road.  As I have previously told @Simisoccerfan, if you're going for the kill shot, you'd better hit.


IF the relationship was fostered then they did that they they are jerks and if i felt pissed off enough id kick that bear in the nuts.  Never be scared of a frigging school principle or coach they are just working stiffs like the rest of us no better no worse. If they try to retaliate they will be up a bigger creek. I've taken on the school district in a way more serious matter they back off if it brings bad publicity. That doesn't mean you end up getting your way but at least you didn't fold like a wimp.


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## Simisoccerfan

Wow a lot of posts here.  Looks like my nemesis is likely posting bad things about me.   The bottom line is that she played for the HS team for 3 years.  Last year they allowed all of the DA girls sitting out to attend the signing event.  This year the AD told her she was being excluded.  I thought that was a bit unfair.  I was very polite in my email to him though my dd felt he was a bit rude when he talked to her.  The surrounding High Schools in our area have not yet taken the same approach.   I have never personally met the AD.  I have good relationship with the HS coach who also had previously coached my dd in club for several years.  She had nothing to do with the decision.  It is what it is.  Like every parent here I just want what it best for my kids and all kids everywhere.  

On another topic this is a forum meant to share opinions.  Not everyone will agree with those opinions and that is fine.  For me the opinions that I post here to my fellow soccer fanatics helps me to vent and the banter can be fun.  99.9% of the people associated with soccer in CA don't even know or care about this forum.   In the real world I have been nothing but supportive of HS and club soccer.    I show up at every event.  Volunteer my time.  Donate.  Drive my kids and their teammates to practices and games including out of area games.  And cheer for everyone.  This is both for HS and club.  You can accuse me of being too proud of my kids but don't assume you know me or how I act in the real world based on my posts on this forum.


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## Simisoccerfan

I hesitate to post this since I know how some people respond on this forum but my dd hurt her knee last week on the same day she signed her NLI.   She is the sweetest, hardest working girl and I have been sick to my stomach these past few days.   She spoke to her college coach before turning in the NLI (since that is the right thing to do) and they told her not to worry.  They hope for the best but either way they are happy to have her.   MRI was done today and it will be a few days until we know the results.  You can hate on me all you want but please send positive thoughts her way.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> I hesitate to post this since I know how some people respond on this forum but my dd hurt her knee last week on the same day she signed her NLI.   She is the sweetest, hardest working girl and I have been sick to my stomach these past few days.   She spoke to her college coach before turning in the NLI (since that is the right thing to do) and they told her not to worry.  They hope for the best but either way they are happy to have her.   MRI was done today and it will be a few days until we know the results.  You can hate on me all you want but please send positive thoughts her way.


Best of luck to your daughter.  Hopefully it is minor.  Don't worry about opinions because everyone has one and unless it is your spouse or daughter's coach giving the opinion than it carries about as much weight as you allow it (which should be zero).  Continue to fight the good fight and a speedy recovery to your player.


----------



## outside!

Simisoccerfan said:


> I hesitate to post this since I know how some people respond on this forum but my dd hurt her knee last week on the same day she signed her NLI.   She is the sweetest, hardest working girl and I have been sick to my stomach these past few days.   She spoke to her college coach before turning in the NLI (since that is the right thing to do) and they told her not to worry.  They hope for the best but either way they are happy to have her.   MRI was done today and it will be a few days until we know the results.  You can hate on me all you want but please send positive thoughts her way.


Very sorry to hear that Simi. I know a few players that hurt their knees prior to reporting to their college team. They spent the fall season on the injured list, and are getting back into training to be ready for next fall. Some of them may even play this spring season. Best of luck to your DD.


----------



## CaliKlines

Simisoccerfan said:


> I hesitate to post this since I know how some people respond on this forum but my dd hurt her knee last week on the same day she signed her NLI.   She is the sweetest, hardest working girl and I have been sick to my stomach these past few days.   She spoke to her college coach before turning in the NLI (since that is the right thing to do) and they told her not to worry.  They hope for the best but either way they are happy to have her.   MRI was done today and it will be a few days until we know the results.  You can hate on me all you want but please send positive thoughts her way.


Hopefully it is not too serious and she rebounds quickly...JW is a quality guy and he won't view this as anything other than a small bump in the road. Best wishes to your player...


----------



## Dubs

Simisoccerfan said:


> I already expressed my displeasure with what they are doing.  I hoped that they would change their minds but I am not going to force them to honor her.   In my mind two wrongs don't make a right.  It just was a dick move not to recognize her in front of her peers and my understanding was that the coach had nothing to do with the decision.  It was all the AD.


That is REALLY disappointing to hear... Congrats to your daughter.  All praises to her and her hard work/accomplishments.  I just don't understand the hate even though my DD gets it too.  All the best!


----------



## gkrent

Simisoccerfan said:


> You can accuse me of being too proud of my kids but don't assume you know me or how I act in the real world based on my posts on this forum.


You can never be too proud of your kid.  Take care and best wishes for you daughter and her knee recovery.


----------



## Justafan

End of the Line said:


> "Instead of playing a miserable game in the rain tonight with a team that none of her friends play on anymore, she is in Florida with 15 of her best friends."
> 
> In addition to that little gem, you also made sure to let everyone know your daughter was last year's MVP and is the school's "only DI athlete".


Simi, if that first quote above is yours, then you are just as petty as the AD you complain about.  Simi, you can't take the high road and fire shots at the same time.  There are pluses and minuses to playing DA and you have to deal with the minuses just as those of us that aren't DA have to deal with the minuses of not playing DA (assuming we could if we wanted to).  

Which brings me to my next subject, why doesn't DA allow the players that aren't national team caliber just play high school ball.  The solution for me is easy.  Select the players that are truly elite and national team caliber and have a special 2-3 month camp with them during high school season and let the rest play high school.  US Soccer can do whatever they want with these players during this period.  If they want to travel to other cities or countries for friendlies or training, there are plenty of vacation days during this period (i.e. Thanksgiving, Christmas, MLK, 2 Presidents days).  

For 99% of DA players, college will be the end of it, so let them have some fun.  And don't start with this "my daughter would rather train with her DA team than play high school."  That's like a kid saying he'd rather study than go to Disneyland.


----------



## LadiesMan217

Justafan said:


> For 99% of DA players, college will be the end of it, so let them have some fun.  And don't start with this "my daughter would rather train with her DA team than play high school."  That's like a kid saying he'd rather study than go to Disneyland.


LOL - daughter is sitting across from me and I straight out asked her would she rather train for DA or play HS soccer - she flat out said DA training. Don't know what to tell you.


----------



## MarkM

Justafan said:


> Simi, if that first quote above is yours, then you are just as petty as the AD you complain about.  Simi, you can't take the high road and fire shots at the same time.  There are pluses and minuses to playing DA and you have to deal with the minuses just as those of us that aren't DA have to deal with the minuses of not playing DA (assuming we could if we wanted to).
> 
> Which brings me to my next subject, why doesn't DA allow the players that aren't national team caliber just play high school ball.  The solution for me is easy.  Select the players that are truly elite and national team caliber and have a special 2-3 month camp with them during high school season and let the rest play high school.  US Soccer can do whatever they want with these players during this period.  If they want to travel to other cities or countries for friendlies or training, there are plenty of vacation days during this period (i.e. Thanksgiving, Christmas, MLK, 2 Presidents days).
> 
> For 99% of DA players, college will be the end of it, so let them have some fun.  And don't start with this "my daughter would rather train with her DA team than play high school."  That's like a kid saying he'd rather study than go to Disneyland.


You are aware that even if DA changed the rule, CIF prevents DA players from competing in CIF.  That's what makes this thread so ridiculous.  CIF has the same rule as DA, except DA makes an exception for national team players.  No ODP, no club, no national team games under CIF rules (see Section 600 under the bylaws).  Yet, we are making this about kids playing DA?  You also seem confused about the HS soccer season.  Depending on what part of the country you are in, HS season could be a different season.  That's why ECNL has so many showcases so it accommodate the different HS seasons.  

And yes, some players rather play DA (or on any club team) than play HS.  In HS, you have no choice regarding your coach or teammates.  Some coaches and teammates are awful, which is 4 years of misery.  It's worse in HS when kids are so click-ish and you have upperclasswomen who can be petty.  I've had some love HS teams, and others hate HS teams.  It's far from Disneyland.


----------



## Justafan

MarkM said:


> You are aware that even if DA changed the rule, CIF prevents DA players from competing in CIF.  That's what makes this thread so ridiculous.  CIF has the same rule as DA, except DA makes an exception for national team players.  No ODP, no club, no national team games under CIF rules (see Section 600 under the bylaws).  Yet, we are making this about kids playing DA?  You also seem confused about the HS soccer season.  Depending on what part of the country you are in, HS season could be a different season.  That's why ECNL has so many showcases so it accommodate the different HS seasons.
> 
> And yes, some players rather play DA (or on any club team) than play HS.  In HS, you have no choice regarding your coach or teammates.  Some coaches and teammates are awful, which is 4 years of misery.  It's worse in HS when kids are so click-ish and you have upperclasswomen who can be petty.  I've had some love HS teams, and others hate HS teams.  It's far from Disneyland.


Don't know the rules, but something tells me they can be worked out.  With regards to rather playing DA or high school don’t take my word for it just ask every national team player and all college players before DA came along if they would have elected to forego playing high school ball in order to train more with their club team? I’ll put some money on that one.


----------



## Soccer43

as I have said many times - not every player and not every high school soccer team is the same.  Some top elite players have the best time playing for their high school team and wouldn't miss it while others hate it.  Some leagues are competitive and play decent soccer and some are a hatchet jobs.


----------



## Justafan

Soccer43 said:


> as I have said many times - not every player and not every high school soccer team is the same.  Some top elite players have the best time playing for their high school team and wouldn't miss it while others hate it.  Some leagues are competitive and play decent soccer and some are a hatchet jobs.


Playing high school has little to do with the level of play, it’s almost ALL about the social aspect.


----------



## Soccer43

Justafan said:


> Playing high school has little to do with the level of play, it’s almost ALL about the social aspect.


Yes, I agree but some teams are terrible and others have a decent level of play so it can still be fun for the stronger players.  Regardless of the social benefit, if the level of play falls below a standard it is not fun


----------



## Multi Sport

Simisoccerfan said:


> I hesitate to post this since I know how some people respond on this forum but my dd hurt her knee last week on the same day she signed her NLI.   She is the sweetest, hardest working girl and I have been sick to my stomach these past few days.   She spoke to her college coach before turning in the NLI (since that is the right thing to do) and they told her not to worry.  They hope for the best but either way they are happy to have her.   MRI was done today and it will be a few days until we know the results.  You can hate on me all you want but please send positive thoughts her way.


Nothing but the best of luck and speedy recovery for your daughter. Just sit back now and be positive for your daughter and know she will be fine. My DD will graduate college in May and it really feels like yesterday she graduated HS.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Update.  Torn ACL and partially torn meniscus.  We will know the surgery date tomorrow.  dd is in good spirits.  College coaches have been great and very supportive.  Dr says she will be out 4 to 9 months depending on how her training goes.   She will be at college for summer school starting in June and their medical/training staff will guide her recovery.


----------



## MWN

MarkM said:


> You are aware that even if DA changed the rule, *CIF prevents DA players from competing in CIF*.  That's what makes this thread so ridiculous.  CIF has the same rule as DA, except DA makes an exception for national team players.  No ODP, no club, no national team games under CIF rules (see Section 600 under the bylaws).  Yet, we are making this about kids playing DA?  You also seem confused about the HS soccer season.  Depending on what part of the country you are in, HS season could be a different season.  That's why ECNL has so many showcases so it accommodate the different HS seasons.
> 
> And yes, some players rather play DA (or on any club team) than play HS.  In HS, you have no choice regarding your coach or teammates.  Some coaches and teammates are awful, which is 4 years of misery.  It's worse in HS when kids are so click-ish and you have upperclasswomen who can be petty.  I've had some love HS teams, and others hate HS teams.  It's far from Disneyland.


What you wrote is not correct.

CIF - Southern Section (and the others) prohibits players competing on a HS team from "competing" in the same sport during the HS season for that sport, which means HS aged players cannot play on Rec, Club, ODP, ECNL, DA, etc.  The DA prohibits DA players from competing on a HS team while rostered on the DA team, unless a waiver is given by the DA.  

The DA does not go on break during the HS season (like club soccer), thus, active DA players have to be released from their DA team to play HS and under the DA rules, cannot rejoin the team until the following season.

The CIF  has no rules preventing DA players from playing HS, except the general prohibition against competing on an outside team during the HS season.


----------



## MarkM

MWN said:


> What you wrote is not correct.
> 
> CIF - Southern Section (and the others) prohibits players competing on a HS team from "competing" in the same sport during the HS season for that sport, which means HS aged players cannot play on Rec, Club, ODP, ECNL, DA, etc.  The DA prohibits DA players from competing on a HS team while rostered on the DA team, unless a waiver is given by the DA.
> 
> The DA does not go on break during the HS season (like club soccer), thus, active DA players have to be released from their DA team to play HS and under the DA rules, cannot rejoin the team until the following season.
> 
> The CIF  has no rules preventing DA players from playing HS, except the general prohibition against competing on an outside team during the HS season.


DA is a 10-month season.  CIF is a 3-4 month season.  Both DA and CIF prevent players from competing in outside competition during their seasons.  If you are making some distinction about whether a player is technically rostered or released in DA, I think you are missing the point.


----------



## MakeAPlay

I advise anyone with an aspiring college player to get them in the habit now of good nutrition and taking care of their body.  Not to mention serious study habits.  Without a solid foundation in those areas the grind of all that college soccer entails will absolutely breakdown even the best players.  Start the preparation early.  Those things can be the difference between a positive and negative experience.  Preparation in those areas allows a player to hit the ground running.  The fact that many of the best female players are also excellent students is not a coincidence.

Good luck and great health to all of the amazing young players out there looking to play on the next level.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Surgery day. Got lucky Dr had a cancellation.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Day 3.  Ice machine, less painkillers, first shower.  Leg locked straight.  Crutches.  Breakfast in Bed.   Needs help still with most things.   Each day will get better.


----------



## dejong21

Not sure if this has been touched upon recently,  but I hear that further changes for recruitment guidelines will be voted on at the next NCAA meeting in April, including doing away with verbal commitments and any communication (either directly with player or via club coach) until junior year. Anyone have more information?


----------



## Glen

dejong21 said:


> Not sure if this has been touched upon recently,  but I hear that further changes for recruitment guidelines will be voted on at the next NCAA meeting in April, including doing away with verbal commitments and any communication (either directly with player or via club coach) until junior year. Anyone have more information?


I don't know about the verbal commitment part, but they are essentially eliminating communications with recruits until June 15 after sophomore year.  Players will not be able to contact coaches.  Coaches will be able to contact recruits starting June 15 (instead of waiting until September under the current rules).  This would seem to eliminate the possibility of verbal commitments until after sophomore year. 

I'm sure there are some exceptions to the limitation on communications.  Maybe communications during camps?  Or recruiting inquiry forms? 

Anyone else with more insight?


----------



## Dubs

Glen said:


> I don't know about the verbal commitment part, but they are essentially eliminating communications with recruits until June 15 after sophomore year.  Players will not be able to contact coaches.  Coaches will be able to contact recruits starting June 15 (instead of waiting until September under the current rules).  This would seem to eliminate the possibility of verbal commitments until after sophomore year.
> 
> I'm sure there are some exceptions to the limitation on communications.  Maybe communications during camps?  Or recruiting inquiry forms?
> 
> Anyone else with more insight?


It will not eliminate the ability to commit early, but you're correct on the communication part.  Ultimately if a recruit can't communicate with a coaching staff, in theory it will deter any further planned early commits.


----------



## Sons of Pitches

Does it mean anything if a school puts your player on a "Recruiting List"?


----------



## MarkM

Dubs said:


> It will not eliminate the ability to commit early, but you're correct on the communication part.  Ultimately if a recruit can't communicate with a coaching staff, in theory it will deter any further planned early commits.


How would you be able to commit early if you cannot communicate with the staff?  There always seems to be a loophole, but I can't figure it out with this rule change.  I also think that would garner the unwelcome attention of the NCAA if a kid committed early.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

100% believe all communication should not be allowed prior to start junior year.  That includes communication w club coaches.  Kids need to be kids and already have enough stress to deal with.


----------



## Playmaker38

MarkM said:


> How would you be able to commit early if you cannot communicate with the staff?  There always seems to be a loophole, but I can't figure it out with this rule change.  I also think that would garner the unwelcome attention of the NCAA if a kid committed early.



One such way would be at a camp... I haven’t read into the new rule specifics, but currently for instance prior to sept 1 junior year players can not communicate directly with coaches at places such as showcases without there being a pre-existing connection, for instance, having met previously at a camp, and even then conversations are usually kept incredibly brief and mostly to greetings and how are you’s. 

I would imagine the new rule would be a huge boost to camp numbers


----------



## MarkM

Playmaker38 said:


> One such way would be at a camp... I haven’t read into the new rule specifics, but currently for instance prior to sept 1 junior year players can not communicate directly with coaches at places such as showcases without there being a pre-existing connection, for instance, having met previously at a camp, and even then conversations are usually kept incredibly brief and mostly to greetings and how are you’s.
> 
> I would imagine the new rule would be a huge boost to camp numbers


The NCAA changed the rule last year to preclude recruiting discussions from occurring at camps.


----------



## Playmaker38

MarkM said:


> The NCAA changed the rule last year to preclude recruiting discussions from occurring at camps.



camp+ ask kid to come through campus on an unofficial visit = offer?

Camp+ recruit through club coach + ask club coach to have parent call at a specific day and specific time = offer?

Just spitballing. I know Colorado just picked up a 2022 from Blues so there must be some way around the whole thing for a freshman to commit


----------



## gkrent

What about discussions through third parties?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

gkrent said:


> What about discussions through third parties?


They are called club coaches


----------



## MarkM

Playmaker38 said:


> camp+ ask kid to come through campus on an unofficial visit = offer?
> 
> Camp+ recruit through club coach + ask club coach to have parent call at a specific day and specific time = offer?
> 
> Just spitballing. I know Colorado just picked up a 2022 from Blues so there must be some way around the whole thing for a freshman to commit


The rule won’t be in place until April, so kids can commit now.  Parents won’t be able to call.  That’s what the new rule prevents. 

Can’t talk to kids on unofficial visits anymore.  That was a rule put in place last year.


----------



## MarkM

gkrent said:


> What about discussions through third parties?


Maybe, but that’s getting more and more questionable.  If a club coach is just forwarding emails, that doesn’t seem to be following the rule.

I just want to see the first kid commit early after the announcement of the rule.  What are they going to say?  The coach didn’t contact me and I didn’t contact the coach, but some how we struck a deal?   If I’m a coach or a player, I wouldn’t want to risk that.

There could be some commits kept quiet, but verbal commits don’t mean much unless they are public.


----------



## MarkM

Simisoccerfan said:


> They are called club coaches


That’s like calling yahoo email a third party communication because yahoo facilitates the communication.  A communication is a communication regardless of how you make the communication to its intended party.


----------



## Real Deal

I don't understand why there needs to be a rule.  Those who want to wait can wait already.  These rules seem unclear with all kinds of wiggle room. Commits will happen either way but yeah now it seems it will be more dicey for the student-athlete since it will be under the table and not public knowledge.  Welcome to the "prohibition era" of athletic recruiting.


----------



## espola

Real Deal said:


> I don't understand why there needs to be a rule.  Those who want to wait can wait already.  These rules seem unclear with all kinds of wiggle room. Commits will happen either way but yeah now it seems it will be more dicey for the student-athlete since it will be under the table and not public knowledge.  Welcome to the "prohibition era" of athletic recruiting.


Nothing new.  Coaches don't get fired for violating recruiting and eligibility rules, they get fired for getting caught.


----------



## MarkM

Real Deal said:


> I don't understand why there needs to be a rule.  Those who want to wait can wait already.


Because those who do commit early impact those that don't commit early.  There are only so many spots.  So everyone is pressured into committing early regardless of whether they are ready.  There is no reason for coaches and players to be pressured into committing before junior year.  Look how bad the transfer rate has become with all these early commits.  If anything, early committing is a vanity thing for parents and kids.  

I don't see a private commitment as meaning much of anything.  With a public commitment, at least the program faced potential repetitional harm if the commitment was not honored and the player wouldn't be recruited by other schools after the player committed.  Those don't apply with a private commitment (whatever that is).  It's like that saying:  If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

I don't think the rules have been unclear.  Everyone knows all the loopholes.  But it looks like the NCAA finally closed the last few loopholes between this year's possible rule changes and the changes last year.  The NCAA has already done this in other sports.


----------



## Dubs

Playmaker38 said:


> camp+ ask kid to come through campus on an unofficial visit = offer?
> 
> Camp+ recruit through club coach + ask club coach to have parent call at a specific day and specific time = offer?
> 
> Just spitballing. I know Colorado just picked up a 2022 from Blues so there must be some way around the whole thing for a freshman to commit


The "no communication" rule is set to be approved later next month.  You will see a bunch of early commits between now and then.


----------



## espola

Dubs said:


> The "no communication" rule is set to be approved later next month.  You will see a bunch of early commits between now and then.


That should be make for some interesting conversations --

Coach to kid - "I want you to do something that will be illegal next month"


----------



## Real Deal

MarkM said:


> Because those who do commit early impact those that don't commit early.  There are only so many spots.  So everyone is pressured into committing early regardless of whether they are ready.  There is no reason for coaches and players to be pressured into committing before junior year.  Look how bad the transfer rate has become with all these early commits.  If anything, early committing is a vanity thing for parents and kids.
> 
> I don't see a private commitment as meaning much of anything.  With a public commitment, at least the program faced potential repetitional harm if the commitment was not honored and the player wouldn't be recruited by other schools after the player committed.  Those don't apply with a private commitment (whatever that is).  It's like that saying:  If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
> 
> I don't think the rules have been unclear.  Everyone knows all the loopholes.  But it looks like the NCAA finally closed the last few loopholes between this year's possible rule changes and the changes last year.  The NCAA has already done this in other sports.


This whole thread is about "the process."  So what is the process now under the new rules?  Just spend a giant amount of money traveling all over the country to do camps for schools that may or may not be interested in you because that is the only way to get to know a coach and program?  Hope they may have or develop interest in you in so doing?  What if you are completely barking up the wrong trees??  I mean there are only so many visits you can do in the summer before junior year when you are actually receiving communications.

I am open, and certainly optimistic that the changes will be positive,  but seems it would've been nice to keep communication and un-official visits and simply limit when verbal commits could happen.  And I still think sophomore year is a more realistic time for that due to the incredible stresses of junior year, and also the fact that some schools require more specific curriculums which need to be addressed prior to junior year.  I am very glad that at least communication was moved up a bit.  And, as I said, I am completely open and supportive of any process that is a benefit to student-athletes.  Completely.


----------



## Dubs

I suppose this could be an entirely new thread, but I guess it's relevant to this thread so I will go ahead and ask.  I'm curious as to what everyone's experience has been in the past/recent past with respect to how the dynamics on a team changes as girls commit.  In my scenario, my DD is one of two girls committed on her team (03 age group).  Now with the rule change, it's definitely going to increase the stress for the rest of the girls and their families.  Can anyone speak to positives & negatives as a result of this scenario?  Do teams generally perform the same, better, worse?  I guess what I'm asking is how much is this going to "F" up the rest of her club experience?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dubs said:


> I suppose this could be an entirely new thread, but I guess it's relevant to this thread so I will go ahead and ask.  I'm curious as to what everyone's experience has been in the past/recent past with respect to how the dynamics on a team changes as girls commit.  In my scenario, my DD is one of two girls committed on her team (03 age group).  Now with the rule change, it's definitely going to increase the stress for the rest of the girls and their families.  Can anyone speak to positives & negatives as a result of this scenario?  Do teams generally perform the same, better, worse?  I guess what I'm asking is how much is this going to "F" up the rest of her club experience?


My player was the first to commit on her club team and it actually was good for the other players on the team because when the team manager handed out the recruiting profiles of the team to coaches on the sideline it showed who was committed and made it clear where a player was committed to.  This made the coaches aware of who was available on the field so they didn't waste time trying to get in touch with players that were already committed.  When the other highly regarded player on her team committed a month later her coach told us that it was a big weight off his shoulders that the two of them were committed so that he could stop fielding calls about them and could focus on the other girls.

I have heard stories both ways but that was my player's experience.  For reference she is a '98 and was a 2016 grad (committed in 2014 as a sophomore during her high school soccer season).


----------



## Dubs

MakeAPlay said:


> My player was the first to commit on her club team and it actually was good for the other players on the team because when the team manager handed out the recruiting profiles of the team to coaches on the sideline it showed who was committed and made it clear where a player was committed to.  This made the coaches aware of who was available on the field so they didn't waste time trying to get in touch with players that were already committed.  When the other highly regarded player on her team committed a month later her coach told us that it was a big weight off his shoulders that the two of them were committed so that he could stop fielding calls about them and could focus on the other girls.
> 
> I have heard stories both ways but that was my player's experience.  For reference she is a '98 and was a 2016 grad (committed in 2014 as a sophomore during her high school soccer season).


That definitely makes sense.  When I spoke to my kid's coach about her committment, she was happy of course, but then stated "now she's done...I only have 17 more to go".  I guess it's daunting to everyone involved.  I just hope things stay positive for my daughter and she doesn't have to take a backseat because they're trying to promote the other players.  She needs to be getting ready for what's to come and I don't want that to be lost in all of this...


----------



## Simisoccerfan

All seniors on our team are committed and most Juniors are now committed.  Things stayed positive throughout the process and I did not see any girls take a backseat at anytime based upon whether they were committed.   I think it helps the team to have girls start to be committed.  It shows coaches that that the team has the type of players that can play at the next level.


----------



## beachbum

MakeAPlay said:


> My player was the first to commit on her club team and it actually was good for the other players on the team because when the team manager handed out the recruiting profiles of the team to coaches on the sideline it showed who was committed and made it clear where a player was committed to.  This made the coaches aware of who was available on the field so they didn't waste time trying to get in touch with players that were already committed.  When the other highly regarded player on her team committed a month later her coach told us that it was a big weight off his shoulders that the two of them were committed so that he could stop fielding calls about them and could focus on the other girls.
> 
> I have heard stories both ways but that was my player's experience.  For reference she is a '98 and was a 2016 grad (committed in 2014 as a sophomore during her high school soccer season).


My daughters experience was similar with her committing in April of her freshman year. Our manager did the same with the brochures/profiles of the team.  I do think it can be a bad thing for the rest of the players that aren't committed do to the fact that not nearly the number of coaches came to watch our games once those top players committed.  When our top players weren't committed we had huge numbers of coaches watching, once they committed early our coach numbers dropped.  Obviously they were there to watch those top players but others could benefit if they did the things needed to stand out.  The club coaches really weren't involved except for passing on the initial interest, the players took over after that.


----------



## MakeAPlay

beachbum said:


> My daughters experience was similar with her committing in April of her freshman year. Our manager did the same with the brochures/profiles of the team.  I do think it can be a bad thing for the rest of the players that aren't committed do to the fact that not nearly the number of coaches came to watch our games once those top players committed.  When our top players weren't committed we had huge numbers of coaches watching, once they committed early our coach numbers dropped.  Obviously they were there to watch those top players but others could benefit if they did the things needed to stand out.  The club coaches really weren't involved except for passing on the initial interest, the players took over after that.


Interesting.  I think that my daughters team got a commitment in April from a freshman from your daughter’s team .  I believe that it was the earliest that they have ever committed a player.  They are done recruiting for that year (other than potential international players).


----------



## wc_baller

As a parent of a freshman whose recruiting was just warming up, this rule change is a bit of bummer. Since the fall, DD had quite a few D1 schools communicating to her through her coach, coming to watch games, and inviting her to their camps. Some of those schools have followed up after watching her play or seeing her at a camp to reiterate their interest, providing positive feedback on her play, and indicating they'd be out to more games this spring to get another look. Not that my DD was going to commit early, but she was feeling like she had great momentum going in her recruiting journey, so she's disappointed that the momentum she had built for herself is coming to a screeching halt and that she may not hear back from any of these coaches for another 2 years.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

IMO the brochures should not list who is committed.  It keeps the coaches coming.  It’s a benefit to the club and the teams.  Verbals are non-binding.


----------



## Paddingtonsoccer

With this pending change on communication--and in general--what are the general thoughts on the use of third-party recruiting services?  are they helpful?   things like NCSA or NSR or probably others.   And, what will the role of third parties be in light of changes for younger recruits?


----------



## espola

Paddingtonsoccer said:


> With this pending change on communication--and in general--what are the general thoughts on the use of third-party recruiting services?  are they helpful?   things like NCSA or NSR or probably others.   And, what will the role of third parties be in light of changes for younger recruits?


How much money do you have?


----------



## Paddingtonsoccer

espola said:


> How much money do you have?


well, after countless soccer seasons, cost sensitivities have long since left the building.  LOL


----------



## outside!

Paddingtonsoccer said:


> With this pending change on communication--and in general--what are the general thoughts on the use of third-party recruiting services?  are they helpful?   things like NCSA or NSR or probably others.   And, what will the role of third parties be in light of changes for younger recruits?


Have your player email and call the coaches of colleges they are interested in. It is not complicated, it just takes some time. This is work they will need to do with or without the third-party recruiting services, so in my opinion, no need to spend the money.


----------



## Dubs

Paddingtonsoccer said:


> With this pending change on communication--and in general--what are the general thoughts on the use of third-party recruiting services?  are they helpful?   things like NCSA or NSR or probably others.   And, what will the role of third parties be in light of changes for younger recruits?


This has also been mentioned previously in this thread, but I'll mention it again.  When your DD attends showcase events (assuming ECNL, DA, NPL), the events themselves are ususally linked with  some of these services.  My DD has both Total Global Sports, Scouting Zone and one other where you can create a profile and put your DD's relevant info/grades/accolades, as part of the particular event.  The college coaches leverage these sites during the event and so as long as you create the profile, they will have access to it and it's free (basic profile).  I agree you don't need to spend any money on things like this specifically for this reason.  However, some folks do spend the cash have good feelings about a number of platforms so it's really up to you, but just know that your DD can do the same thing just by actively sending out communication to the coaches where she has interest.  Main thing is to make sure you're on a team that gets looks and goes to some marquee events where coaches flock.  Much easier to make the connections.


----------



## Dos Equis

Most clubs and many leagues offer the basic version of TGS, College Fitfinder or other recruiting software/registration services for free.  If you do not have a club coach nor a club that provides some level of guidance and assistance in the recruiting process, you want to play in college, and you are older than 13, time to change teams/clubs.  There is no legitimate need to use third parties outside of your player, your coach, your club, and you as a parent. Remember it is up to the player to talk to their own coach and contact college coaches.  If they are not ready to do that, they are not ready to commit.

As for verbal commits on brochures, I would include those for transparency reasons.  I have not seen it impact coach attendance, as they rarely go to random games to see who is available, but instead go to watch specific players who contacted them. I see as much upside as downside.


----------



## Zerodenero

As my kiddo is wrapping up her 1st year in college as a "student-athlete" playing women's soccer, i've learned a lot as a parent. But of all the learnings, the one that stood out (by a LARGE margin) that I highly encourage all parents to discuss with their recruited player is this ....

***Choose the college your player loves FIRST, soccer program SECOND**  (in that specific order)*

For example: My kiddo had a great rookie year and played/started 75% of the pre and regular season. Once season ended, all hell broke loose as her coaching staff resigned/got fired, subsequently arrested by the FED's, and her school/soccer program became ground zero to the largest college scandal in decades..... My player also endured a late season concussion, and just recently another concussion in a spring game. At this point, given the long term affects of recurring concussions and her future goals/objectives, she's decided to sit out next year and will likely become the team manager until she graduates in 2022.

But at the end of the day, regardless of the injuries she's endured _....._regardless of the $hitstorm within her soccer program..... she's stoked to be where she is, and doing what she's doing. Why?......she chose her dream school 1st, soccer program 2nd - and it's made all the difference.

Best of luck to all of parents of players in the process. Soccer can be a "golden ticket" of opportunity.....encourage/guide your player to use it wisely


----------



## UOP

Most girls aren’t able to get their dream academic school and preferred dream soccer  school all in one.   Awesome for the few that do!


----------



## surfrider

Zerodenero said:


> As my kiddo is wrapping up her 1st year in college as a "student-athlete" playing women's soccer, i've learned a lot as a parent. But of all the learnings, the one that stood out (by a LARGE margin) that I highly encourage all parents to discuss with their recruited player is this ....
> 
> ***Choose the college your player loves FIRST, soccer program SECOND**  (in that specific order)*
> 
> For example: My kiddo had a great rookie year and played/started 75% of the pre and regular season. Once season ended, all hell broke loose as her coaching staff resigned/got fired, subsequently arrested by the FED's, and her school/soccer program became ground zero to the largest college scandal in decades..... My player also endured a late season concussion, and just recently another concussion in a spring game. At this point, given the long term affects of recurring concussions and her future goals/objectives, she's decided to sit out next year and will likely become the team manager until she graduates in 2022.
> 
> But at the end of the day, regardless of the injuries she's endured _....._regardless of the $hitstorm within her soccer program..... she's stoked to be where she is, and doing what she's doing. Why?......she chose her dream school 1st, soccer program 2nd - and it's made all the difference.
> 
> Best of luck to all of parents of players in the process. Soccer can be a "golden ticket" of opportunity.....encourage/guide your player to use it wisely


Great post. I agree. My kid just finished and went through some big time challenges but wouldn’t have traded it for anything. Loved where she was and got the most out of both academics and athletics


----------



## Overlap

eastbaysoccer said:


> IMO the brochures should not list who is committed.  It keeps the coaches coming.  It’s a benefit to the club and the teams.  Verbals are non-binding.


I've always felt it best to be honest and up front. Since I was the one making the brochure, I made sure to list the player's that had committed. Btw, the ones listed still received emails and offers after listing them as COMMITTED in bold red letters, that's on the coach and player in my book after that point


----------



## Overlap

Zerodenero said:


> As my kiddo is wrapping up her 1st year in college as a "student-athlete" playing women's soccer, i've learned a lot as a parent. But of all the learnings, the one that stood out (by a LARGE margin) that I highly encourage all parents to discuss with their recruited player is this ....
> 
> ***Choose the college your player loves FIRST, soccer program SECOND**  (in that specific order)*
> 
> For example: My kiddo had a great rookie year and played/started 75% of the pre and regular season. Once season ended, all hell broke loose as her coaching staff resigned/got fired, subsequently arrested by the FED's, and her school/soccer program became ground zero to the largest college scandal in decades..... My player also endured a late season concussion, and just recently another concussion in a spring game. At this point, given the long term affects of recurring concussions and her future goals/objectives, she's decided to sit out next year and will likely become the team manager until she graduates in 2022.
> 
> But at the end of the day, regardless of the injuries she's endured _....._regardless of the $hitstorm within her soccer program..... she's stoked to be where she is, and doing what she's doing. Why?......she chose her dream school 1st, soccer program 2nd - and it's made all the difference.
> 
> Best of luck to all of parents of players in the process. Soccer can be a "golden ticket" of opportunity.....encourage/guide your player to use it wisely


Great point Zerodenero, (btw - so sorry to hear about your DD's concussion), we had almost the same issue, we kept bringing up in discussions prior, "Would you want to attend school XYZ if you weren't playing soccer?", keep in mind something could happen to the coaching staff...(I'm sure it went in one ear and out the other), I received a panic text early August before our oldest had to report, "Coach XYZ has just been fired for something a player did during a recruiting visit!" while it all worked out, those things happen more than we know...hope your kiddo has a speedy recovery


----------



## Overlap

Paddingtonsoccer said:


> With this pending change on communication--and in general--what are the general thoughts on the use of third-party recruiting services?  are they helpful?   things like NCSA or NSR or probably others.   And, what will the role of third parties be in light of changes for younger recruits?


ONLY if you have no clue, no time, no interest and about $3K to spend. I had signed up with NCSA way back in the early start of the process ($750 for a basic package back then which included several phone sessions and 1 Highlight video), lol, (that's how I learned how to do the video's myself), also keep in mind, they will constantly try to "up sell" you however, I used the website for kind of a road map early on since I had no clue. I also did research on the NCAA website to get a better understanding, trust me, it's really not that hard or time consuming. The only reason I ended up using someone at the end was, it was putting a major strain on my relationship with my kid, she got tired of me asking, did you send that email, did you reply to coach xyz, I just wanted a normal relationship with my kid before she left and I'm really glad I did it that way. Plus, it also made it easier for me to work through the mentor for the final negotiations.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Overlap said:


> ONLY if you have no clue, no time, no interest and about $3K to spend. I had signed up with NCSA way back in the early start of the process ($750 for a basic package back then which included several phone sessions and 1 Highlight video), lol, (that's how I learned how to do the video's myself), also keep in mind, they will constantly try to "up sell" you however, I used the website for kind of a road map early on since I had no clue. I also did research on the NCAA website to get a better understanding, trust me, it's really not that hard or time consuming. The only reason I ended up using someone at the end was, it was putting a major strain on my relationship with my kid, she got tired of me asking, did you send that email, did you reply to coach xyz, I just wanted a normal relationship with my kid before she left and I'm really glad I did it that way. Plus, it also made it easier for me to work through the mentor for the final negotiations.


Like I have repeatedly said, “there are many roads to Rome.”  Thank you for sharing.   Enjoy the journey.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Lambchop

outside! said:


> Have your player email and call the coaches of colleges they are interested in. It is not complicated, it just takes some time. This is work they will need to do with or without the third-party recruiting services, so in my opinion, no need to spend the money.


Only after June 15 of their sophomore year.


----------



## Paddingtonsoccer

Overlap said:


> ONLY if you have no clue, no time, no interest and about $3K to spend. I had signed up with NCSA way back in the early start of the process ($750 for a basic package back then which included several phone sessions and 1 Highlight video), lol, (that's how I learned how to do the video's myself), also keep in mind, they will constantly try to "up sell" you however, I used the website for kind of a road map early on since I had no clue. I also did research on the NCAA website to get a better understanding, trust me, it's really not that hard or time consuming. The only reason I ended up using someone at the end was, it was putting a major strain on my relationship with my kid, she got tired of me asking, did you send that email, did you reply to coach xyz, I just wanted a normal relationship with my kid before she left and I'm really glad I did it that way. Plus, it also made it easier for me to work through the mentor for the final negotiations.


interesting.  I can see the part about keeping a normal relationship with your kid!  What do you mean by a mentor?  was this in addition to NCSA's platform?


----------



## shales1002

Lambchop said:


> Only after June 15 of their sophomore year.


Players can still email coaches. That did not change. They can begin talking to each other June 15th after sophomore year.


----------



## Toepoke

shales1002 said:


> Players can still email coaches. That did not change. They can begin talking to each other June 15th after sophomore year.


There can be zero communication prior to June 15th after sophomore year. This is only for D1 schools.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/di-council-adopts-rules-curb-early-recruiting
_
“We feel strongly that it’s an incredible enhancement to our current situation and how students are being recruited,” Sell said. “At the end of the day, these changes will eliminate students in the ninth grade and younger being recruited while still providing access to our campuses early enough to make informed financial and educational decisions on where to go for college.”

The proposal for most sports would allow communication — either from or to a coach — June 15 after the sophomore year of high school and would allow visits beginning Aug. 1 before the junior year of high school.
_
A friend of mine also received this from Recruit Chute which sums up the new rules:

_As of 5.1.19 all Division I college soccer recruits will be affected in the following ways: 

 Communication to and from a coach can only start after June 15th after 10th grade

 Prior to those dates, zero communication is permitted between a college coach and club coaches or players. That includes any offers of a verbal scholarship

 Visits can begin August 1st before 11 grade begins

 Players can still visit schools before June 15th after 10th grade with no contact with coaches at the school

 Players can still use RecruitChute for research and to build a list of schools their freshman and sophomore years

These regulations have been put into place to curb the early recruiting and provide athletes with more time to create an informed decision at which school is the best fit for them. _


----------



## Overlap

Paddingtonsoccer said:


> interesting.  I can see the part about keeping a normal relationship with your kid!  What do you mean by a mentor?  was this in addition to NCSA's platform?


Yes, I ended up hiring Kim Smith from Varsity Sports Institute (I think their website is go-vsi.com), that was our daughter's summer of her Junior year going into her Senior year, she signed that summer before school started. She was getting a lot of interest from several of the recruiters at the time but, I had no idea what was legit and what was just trying to sell their services although, you do figure that out pretty quick


----------



## Multi Sport

Four years seemed so fast. 

Daughter graduated today, Magma cum laude. Her hard work in the class and pitch was rewarded. 

Now the real work begins for her. The games are for keeps now.

Best of luck to all your kids! Keep'em focused!!


----------



## gkrent

(crosspost) 

A reminder that all the plans in the world may not go the way your player expects:  https://speakco.us/blogs/testimonials/setbacks


----------



## Coachmom3

gkrent said:


> (crosspost)
> 
> A reminder that all the plans in the world may not go the way your player expects:  https://speakco.us/blogs/testimonials/setbacks


Thanks for sharing. Great article!


----------



## futboldad1

Multi Sport said:


> Four years seemed so fast.
> 
> Daughter graduated today, Magma cum laude. Her hard work in the class and pitch was rewarded.
> 
> Now the real work begins for her. The games are for keeps now.
> 
> Best of luck to all your kids! Keep'em focused!!


Congrats to your family and dd. I love stories like this!


----------



## Calisoccer11

gkrent said:


> (crosspost)
> 
> A reminder that all the plans in the world may not go the way your player expects:  https://speakco.us/blogs/testimonials/setbacks


What an amazing young athlete!  I would want to thank her for sharing her story....It's very inspiring.


----------



## Mystery Train

gkrent said:


> (crosspost)
> 
> A reminder that all the plans in the world may not go the way your player expects:  https://speakco.us/blogs/testimonials/setbacks


Wow.  Such great perspective.  My daughter needs to read this.


----------



## jojosoccer

Great read.
Going through the SAME thing here. 
Came into camp fit, then got hurt freshman year in training camp. She couldn’t travel with the team that season and was on campus while everyone was away during her first year. The blessing was that she met friends outside of soccer, joined a sorority and did some volunteer work, and had an outstanding GPA.
But her heart was broken that she couldn’t play and we were distraught she was away from home without us or soccer.
God does have a plan and she knows it.


----------



## ToonArmy

Does anyone know of any nice small out of state colleges that recruit socal girls? My daughter just recently told us that she doesn't want to go to a big school and would like to get out of state or socal. Doesn't matter the division. As far as soccer goes she is looking for playing time and I looking for as much $ as possible. Smaller campus in a nice college town good academics and decent women's soccer atmosphere. She is a high school freshman and still has time but we have no clue what's out there outside of the big football schools and would like to start researching before showing interest and making contacts.


----------



## Soccer43

If you want athletic scholarship money then you will need to stick to D1 or D2. .  There are so many schools and different environments that I would suggest she figure out a few things like geographic region, weather, area of study, then go on a few trips to get a flavor of some of the schools to start getting more of a focus.  You can also use tools likeCollege Fit finder to sort the schools to what you are looking for (area of the country, majors,  urban vs rural, size of school etc)


----------



## Dos Equis

ToonArmy said:


> Does anyone know of any nice small out of state colleges that recruit socal girls? My daughter just recently told us that she doesn't want to go to a big school and would like to get out of state or socal. Doesn't matter the division. As far as soccer goes she is looking for playing time and I looking for as much $ as possible. Smaller campus in a nice college town good academics and decent women's soccer atmosphere. She is a high school freshman and still has time but we have no clue what's out there outside of the big football schools and would like to start researching before showing interest and making contacts.


Most colleges are happy to recruit Socal girls, the key is for the player to have a genuine interest and knowledge of the school, and be able to articulate why they want to leave beautiful CA and go to college in a place with four seasons and no beach.  Colleges/coaches often get burned by Socal girls showing interest but staying home, or transferring.

Many top academic small schools are D3, so money is based on financial aid, grants, merit scholarships, and not sports.  It is still there, you just need to navigate that process in parallel with soccer.  The NESCAC schools, Centennial Conference, and some smaller University Athletic Association schools all would fit the D3, small school, decent soccer mold, just need to research the school culture as some support sports, while others do not.  There are also the Ivies with need-based aid, if your daughter is at that level academically, but many are looking at national pool players these days, and are competing with Duke, Stanford and the like recruiting players. 

That being said, if you are still looking for athletic $, playing time, school spirit, smaller/medium colleges, decent alumni networks, and a D1 experience, as well as colleges often overlooked by Socal girls, I would recommend your daughter take a look at current and former colleges in the Patriot League, and some of the smaller colleges in the Atlantic 10 and the Big East.


----------



## soccerobserver

D3 


ToonArmy said:


> Does anyone know of any nice small out of state colleges that recruit socal girls? My daughter just recently told us that she doesn't want to go to a big school and would like to get out of state or socal. Doesn't matter the division. As far as soccer goes she is looking for playing time and I looking for as much $ as possible. Smaller campus in a nice college town good academics and decent women's soccer atmosphere. She is a high school freshman and still has time but we have no clue what's out there outside of the big football schools and would like to start researching before showing interest and making contacts.


D3 colleges are typically small and intimate and will offer financial aid not "athletic" scholarships and aid.  Some of those schools are quite wealthy and can offer generous financial aid packages depending on your family's financial profile. Some of the soccer is quite excellent and they also have the NCAA post season tournament. I do not know how academic your player is but the higher her scores and grades the more options she will have. There are tons of D3 colleges that can offer great soccer experiences. I would refer you to this link for the most comprehensive coverage of D3 soccer. You can also PM me for more detail if interested.  
Here is the link:  https://d3soccer.com/landing/index

I strongly suggest viewing the site from a desktop not you smart phone as the mobile version is not as robust as when viewed from the desktop.

Finally if interested in a particular school then you can do more research by watching the games online. Most of the schools stream the games for free and you can go to their archives to watch several games to see how your player might fit in or to see the style of play the coach teaches. 

The majority of the schools seem to be on the east coast with some sprinkled in Texas and the upper Midwest. 

Since your daughter is only a freshman and has a sense of what she prefers you are already ahead of the game. Once she identifies some schools she should immediately write the coaches of each school. Also if it's in the budget she should plan on attending her top school's soccer clinics. Many of the D3 schools travel to the Vegas College showcase,  Surf Cup, November Nights and even Nomads. 

With the extra time you can also see D3 soccer live at Chapman College in Orange County or Whittier College or at Pomona College and the sister schools Claremont McKenna etc in Pomona/Claremont CA. For perspective, Pomona is ranked in the top 10 in D3 in the nation this season while Chapman is not typically at the top of their conference.


----------



## jojosoccer

College Fit Finder


----------



## Soccerfan2

In addition to what soccerobserver said about writing the coaches, it’s useful to know that because D3’s don’t give out athletic scholarship money, they are not bound by the same NCAA recruiting restrictions that D1 and D2 schools are. Your daughter can communicate with D3 coaches at any time and they will answer her questions directly. While some do attend showcases, some do not have the budget for that and recruit mostly from their own ID camps. They can talk to you about all of that and will send you detailed information about both their soccer program and academic requirements if you ask.


----------



## socalkdg

Don’t forget NAIA teams either.  

https://www.ncsasports.org/womens-soccer/naia-colleges


----------



## jojosoccer

We have a friend at Centre in KY, just outside of Lexington.
Top 25 D3 soccer program. The kids at Centre go to Lexington and follow UK football and basketball, as most of the state of KY does.
The soccer roster is pretty large so not a ton of playing time for our friend. Not sure how much they pay for school.
But I understand Centre is a great school and they love Lexington.


----------



## soccerobserver

ToonArmy said:


> Does anyone know of any nice small out of state colleges that recruit socal girls? My daughter just recently told us that she doesn't want to go to a big school and would like to get out of state or socal. Doesn't matter the division. As far as soccer goes she is looking for playing time and I looking for as much $ as possible. Smaller campus in a nice college town good academics and decent women's soccer atmosphere. She is a high school freshman and still has time but we have no clue what's out there outside of the big football schools and would like to start researching before showing interest and making contacts.


@ToonArmy the NCAA D3 Tournament selections were made today. Here is the link to the broadcast announcement: https://www.ncaa.com/video/soccer-women

The great news for Socal is that Cal Lutheran University in Thousand Oaks, CA will host Claremont-McKenna vs Emory University and UC Santa Cruz vs Cal Lutheran on November 15-17. Pomona College also made the tournament but has to fly out of town for their initial games.


----------



## soccerobserver

jojosoccer said:


> We have a friend at Centre in KY, just outside of Lexington.
> Top 25 D3 soccer program. The kids at Centre go to Lexington and follow UK football and basketball, as most of the state of KY does.
> The soccer roster is pretty large so not a ton of playing time for our friend. Not sure how much they pay for school.
> But I understand Centre is a great school and they love Lexington.


I imagine your friend is happy as Centre went 21-0-0 this season and is playing in the NCAA D3 tournament as a result. 

They will face Scranton ( 11-5-3).


----------



## eastbaysoccer

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/research/pro_beyond/2019RES_ProbabilityBeyondHSFiguresMethod.pdf


----------



## Overlap

eastbaysoccer said:


> https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/research/pro_beyond/2019RES_ProbabilityBeyondHSFiguresMethod.pdf


the NCAA figures haven't changed in the last 3 years.....and that's why their education is SO important, college soccer is great but, even at 3% chance of playing on, there's nothing after that


----------



## espola

Overlap said:


> the NCAA figures haven't changed in the last 3 years.....and that's why their education is SO important, college soccer is great but, even at 3% chance of playing on, there's nothing after that


But you have to pursue the dream until something better comes along.


----------



## ToonArmy

I wonder what the percentage is for Californian's


----------



## espola

eastbaysoccer said:


> https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/research/pro_beyond/2019RES_ProbabilityBeyondHSFiguresMethod.pdf


A more practical measure - when viewing the old HS team highlights DVD I found with my son, I commented that he rarely made those kind of moves in his college games.  He responded that his highlight moves were made against high school players who weren't good enough to make a college team.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Less then 3% make it to D1 and certainly a percentage from that won’t even play and another percentage will only average 500 minutes per year.

IMO it’s all about education and getting some free money to pay for it.


----------



## SoccerJones

eastbaysoccer said:


> Less then 3% make it to D1 and certainly a percentage from that won’t even play and another percentage will only average 500 minutes per year.
> 
> IMO it’s all about education and getting some free money to pay for it.


While those numbers are kid of low (remember every year hundreds of schools d1) have scholarships left untaken) it's not all about D1.  Go somewhere where you're gonna get some money, not have loans when it's all said and done, and enjoy the college experience.


----------



## Overlap

SoccerJones said:


> While those numbers are kid of low (remember every year hundreds of schools d1) have scholarships left untaken) it's not all about D1.  Go somewhere where you're gonna get some money, not have loans when it's all said and done, and enjoy the college experience.


those numbers are posted on the last NCAA website and they're still pretty accurate, D1 is less likely to hand out "full" rides, those 14 scholarships are divided up between 14 players, D2 is about as generous however, D3 does "merit" based and is much more generous, if grades are good going in, the money is BIG, the chances are your kid plays beyond the 1.5 year average, gets a good education and can still live the dream all 4 years (because there's NOTHING after that for girls)...enjoy the ride!


----------



## gkrent

Overlap said:


> (because there's NOTHING after that for girls)


Wrong


----------



## Overlap

gkrent said:


> Wrong


please enlighten us as to what's after college soccer (less than 1% will go pro)...


----------



## gkrent

Overlap said:


> please enlighten us as to what's after college soccer (less than 1% will go pro)...


Well, one of my players did actually go pro and got to travel europe and play in the Champions League.  She parlayed that experience into collegiate coaching.  Not making millions but has a nice career being involved in the sport she loves.  

Not many slots in Pro women's soccer as there are in the NFL or in baseball (playing in the minors in baseball is a grind and not gonna get you rich either) but if the talent is there and the willingness to keep playing there are opportunities all over the world.


----------



## Overlap

gkrent said:


> Well, one of my players did actually go pro and got to travel europe and play in the Champions League.  She parlayed that experience into collegiate coaching.  Not making millions but has a nice career being involved in the sport she loves.
> 
> Not many slots in Pro women's soccer as there are in the NFL or in baseball (playing in the minors in baseball is a grind and not gonna get you rich either) but if the talent is there and the willingness to keep playing there are opportunities all over the world.


that's great for that 1 player however, 1 in how many? My point is, the odds are not in their favor, education is more important as soccer will not last forever and they'll need to be able to fall back on something they can do later in life, don't get me wrong, I love the fact they can play on but, the reality is, it's not going to last forever


----------



## espola

gkrent said:


> Well, one of my players did actually go pro and got to travel europe and play in the Champions League.  She parlayed that experience into collegiate coaching.  Not making millions but has a nice career being involved in the sport she loves.
> 
> Not many slots in Pro women's soccer as there are in the NFL or in baseball (playing in the minors in baseball is a grind and not gonna get you rich either) but if the talent is there and the willingness to keep playing there are opportunities all over the world.


I agree that playing in baseball minor leagues is a grind that makes no money,  However, many minor leaguers got a big signing bonus out of high school of college, probably the biggest check they will see in their lives.  If it is judiciously structured they can live better than those guys on their AA team that are playing baseball because they love it and/or their only alternative is driving for Uber.


----------



## gkrent

Overlap said:


> that's great for that 1 player however, 1 in how many? My point is, the odds are not in their favor, education is more important as soccer will not last forever and they'll need to be able to fall back on something they can do later in life, don't get me wrong, I love the fact they can play on but, the reality is, it's not going to last forever


Agreed education is important, but I just wanted to make sure you weren't crushing anyone's dreams with your absolute statement of "there's NOTHING after that for girls"


----------



## Overlap

gkrent said:


> Agreed education is important, but I just wanted to make sure you weren't crushing anyone's dreams with your absolute statement of "there's NOTHING after that for girls"


lol, it's all about living the dream, there's a place for all of the player's to play on at the collegiate level, they just need to be ready for the reality when and if it's over. I'm watching as our oldest will be playing her last year and youngest playing her second year at the collegiate level and it's more dad knowing it does come to an end


----------



## Soccerhelper

Overlap said:


> lol, it's all about living the dream, there's a place for all of the player's to play on at the collegiate level, they just need to be ready for the reality when and if it's over. I'm watching as our oldest will be playing her last year and youngest playing her second year at the collegiate level and it's more dad knowing it does come to an end


What about pro ball bro?  I guess most of the girls will end up playing adult rec league with all the other moms that still play the great game


----------



## Overlap

Soccerhelper said:


> What about pro ball bro?  I guess most of the girls will end up playing adult rec league with all the other moms that still play the great game


The math doesn't look good, less than 1% play pro (of the 3% that play at the collegiate level, not good odds)...


----------



## Soccerhelper

Overlap said:


> The math doesn't look good, less than 1% play pro (of the 3% that play at the collegiate level, not good odds)...


I know, plus the pay sucks!!!


----------



## oh canada

are girls/women coming out of college now looking to play professionally anywhere because they love the game that much, or because they've been narrowly focused in a rigid soccer culture since 5yrs that restricted their free time and kept them away from alternate experiences?  When you see yourself as only one thing for so long, it's difficult to see yourself as anything else at 21yrs.  It's a rhetorical question...something to ponder.


----------



## Soccerhelper

oh canada said:


> are girls/women coming out of college now looking to play professionally anywhere because they love the game that much, or because they've been narrowly focused in a rigid soccer culture since 5yrs that restricted their free time and kept them away from alternate experiences?  When you see yourself as only one thing for so long, it's difficult to see yourself as anything else at 21yrs.  It's a rhetorical question...something to ponder.


It's what these clubs are selling to top goats these days.  My dd played with and against some tough goats and most of the best of the best are being home schooled by daddy and or a tutor.  These are can;t miss talented players and I hope they make some money down the road.  I know OM is all set.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Soccerhelper said:


> It's what these clubs are selling to top goats these days.  My dd played with and against some tough goats and most of the best of the best are being home schooled by daddy and or a tutor.  These are can;t miss talented players and I hope they make some money down the road.  I know OM is all set.


How many “best of the best” are being home schooled?


----------



## Soccerhelper

Kicker4Life said:


> How many “best of the best” are being home schooled?


I don't know all of the best, but it seems a tread has started.  How about this question to the older college dads.  How many kids back in the day skipped HS all together to train full time for soccer?  I'm curious to know


----------



## SoccerJones

Soccerhelper said:


> I don't know all of the best, but it seems a tread has started.  How about this question to the older college dads.  How many kids back in the day skipped HS all together to train full time for soccer?  I'm curious to know


It's very far and few between.  I think it's dumb to tell a kid (HS) that she can't play HS sports.  Especially when they take the whole month of December and part of January off.  If I had to do it all over again, I would probably encourage my kid to take the winter months off just from a recovery perspective.  Think about it...ECNL practices 2--4 days a week and games on the weekend (they also compete in other leagues NPL, ODP, etc).  that's 4-6 days a week.  GDA has a mandatory 3-4 day training plus games on the weekends.  Granted the number of games is FAR less than ECNL (which I like) but still it's a huge commitment.  

They go from these clubs to HS training 5-6 days a week then 1-3 games a week...where's the rest?  After HS season it's back to the grind until July...take a month off and back in the saddle.  It's no wonder that our HS kids have a high ACL injury rate among players.  The misconception is that if you're not training your'e not getting better.  With soccer, if you're not training, REST!  cause you need it


----------



## gkrent

Soccerhelper said:


> I don't know all of the best, but it seems a tread has started.  How about this question to the older college dads.  How many kids back in the day skipped HS all together to train full time for soccer?  I'm curious to know


I don't know how far back in the day you are reaching but it seems lately that the ones that weren't committed skipped and the ones that were stayed unless their college coaches explicitly told them to stay out.

Way back in the day ODP and National Team camps came first, and if the HS coaches didn't like it then oh well.  They usually got over it pretty fast.


----------



## Soccerhelper

SoccerJones said:


> It's very far and few between.  I think it's dumb to tell a kid (HS) that she can't play HS sports.  Especially when they take the whole month of December and part of January off.  If I had to do it all over again, I would probably encourage my kid to take the winter months off just from a recovery perspective.  Think about it...ECNL practices 2--4 days a week and games on the weekend (they also compete in other leagues NPL, ODP, etc).  that's 4-6 days a week.  GDA has a mandatory 3-4 day training plus games on the weekends.  Granted the number of games is FAR less than ECNL (which I like) but still it's a huge commitment.
> 
> They go from these clubs to HS training 5-6 days a week then 1-3 games a week...where's the rest?  After HS season it's back to the grind until July...take a month off and back in the saddle.  It's no wonder that our HS kids have a high ACL injury rate among players.  The misconception is that if you're not training your'e not getting better.  With soccer, if you're not training, REST!  cause you need it


Mr Jones, where are you getting your Facts?  Reading all that sounds like borderline child abuse.


----------



## SoccerJones

Soccerhelper said:


> Mr Jones, where are you getting your Facts?  Reading all that sounds like borderline child abuse.


my thoughts exactly.  

ECNL
Seasons
Sept-Late November.  Break.  Resume February/March-june/July
Practice 2-3 days a week with games on The Weekend.  
No caps on games per weekend/tournament.  They can go to Surf, Silverlake, Davis, etc. and play 6 games in 3 days.  Those tourney happen a lot during the summer.  
ECNL teams can still play in other leagues (a lot of clubs do) which doubles the amount of games during the seasonal months.  

GDA
Mid-Late August.  Break December.  Resume training (no games) in January.  Finish in June/July.  
Only play a limited number of games per weekend.  No outside leagues.  Showcases usually last 4 days, with a 1 day rest day in between.  
NO high school soccer.  

High School Soccer
Starts first weekend in November and lasts until Mid February. 

As you can see, kids who play higher level soccer DO NOT get a break, even if they play HS.  It's continuous.  Those are probably not the 100% facts but they're pretty darn close.  Again, just talking about kids who play in the top two leagues in the country-ECNL and GDA.  They both have their good and bad.


----------



## Soccerhelper

SoccerJones said:


> my thoughts exactly.
> 
> ECNL
> Seasons
> Sept-Late November.  Break.  Resume February/March-june/July
> Practice 2-3 days a week with games on The Weekend.
> No caps on games per weekend/tournament.  They can go to Surf, Silverlake, Davis, etc. and play 6 games in 3 days.  Those tourney happen a lot during the summer.
> ECNL teams can still play in other leagues (a lot of clubs do) which doubles the amount of games during the seasonal months.
> 
> GDA
> Mid-Late August.  Break December.  Resume training (no games) in January.  Finish in June/July.
> Only play a limited number of games per weekend.  No outside leagues.  Showcases usually last 4 days, with a 1 day rest day in between.
> NO high school soccer.
> 
> High School Soccer
> Starts first weekend in November and lasts until Mid February.
> 
> As you can see, kids who play higher level soccer DO NOT get a break, even if they play HS.  It's continuous.  Those are probably not the 100% facts but they're pretty darn close.  Again, just talking about kids who play in the top two leagues in the country-ECNL and GDA.  They both have their good and bad.


You just watered down your last statement.  Who told you all this about ECNL and HS Soccer?


----------



## SoccerJones

Soccerhelper said:


> You just watered down your last statement.  Who told you all this about ECNL and HS Soccer?


no one needs to tell when you've lived it.  What is the training schedule for your kid?  What lvl does he/she play?  It's pretty spot on...for reals and if your kids plays high school there is virtually NO BREAK for the kids.  Especially if they're underclassman.  Reason?  Because after ECNL/GDA playoffs they have July viewing tourneys.


----------



## oh canada

Please let's not make this another off-topic thread where a poster that I've blocked tell us all about his kid.

Trying to pull this back to college recruiting...what are the parents of sophmores and juniors in H.S. seeing/hearing under the new recruiting rules?  I haven't heard of any frosh or 8th graders giving verbals to a school, so in that sense it appears the new rules are working for the benefit of the kids.

I do know for a fact that the college coaches see both DA and ECNL as equal leagues and attend both league's showcases equally.  So, if anyone is contemplating playing in one league because they believe it will give them a better shot at making it into xxx college, that is not bearing out in reality.


----------



## Kicker4Life

SoccerJones said:


> no one needs to tell when you've lived it.  What is the training schedule for your kid?  What lvl does he/she play?  It's pretty spot on...for reals and if your kids plays high school there is virtually NO BREAK for the kids.  Especially if they're underclassman.  Reason?  Because after ECNL/GDA playoffs they have July viewing tourneys.


See @Soccerhelper....that’s what reality versus speculation looks like...and mostly foolish generalizations.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Here are the Facts Mr Jones from my tree.  Keep in mind that each HS soccer coach is different in how they handle ECNL players and YNT players. We have two ECNL players and our GK (Amazing BTW) gave up DA so she could play her last year of HS soccer for her school.  Thank you CR.

ECNL practices 1.5 times a week on average from August thru before Turkey Day and has a game on the weekend.  This is all to HELP them to train to possibly play in college BTW.  Sometimes AZ comes and you play back to back or you go to AZ for a back to back.  Three showcase.  DA seems to be the same.

DA practices or trains for a chance for a YNT call up -4days days a week on the field, another day running, watch some videos and another day of watching soccer on tv, some futsal and more juggling and hitting the ball against the wall all alone at home. Eat super healthy too. 

ECNL takes break before Thanksgiving. Some teams opted for more games at Thanksgiving time. My family opted for a vacation   We do have choices.  BTW, I paid my fair share of the tournament dues to be unified and a team player with the other parents 

DA was flying to Florida skipping school sometime in December 10 for YNT opportunity

HS Soccer started early December with a few practices a week before school got out.  One tournament. My kid didn't play in one game so others could play and very little of the other games.  No more of those for her HS team next year. 

All the girls took some great time off over the break and came back and played Los Al Jan 2nd.  Now the season starts Mr Jones.  Two games a week and with rest in between and then if were lucky, CIF playoffs.  Two weeks off and then ECNL.

I would love to see how Coach Chavez handles his DA Soccer Players with HS Soccer and then more DA Soccer.  Anyone know?  He coaches 04'


----------



## Soccerhelper

oh canada said:


> Please let's not make this another off-topic thread where a poster that I've blocked tell us all about his kid.
> 
> Trying to pull this back to college recruiting...what are the parents of sophmores and juniors in H.S. seeing/hearing under the new recruiting rules?  I haven't heard of any frosh or 8th graders giving verbals to a school, so in that sense it appears the new rules are working for the benefit of the kids.
> 
> I do know for a fact that the college coaches see both DA and ECNL as equal leagues and attend both league's showcases equally.  So, if anyone is contemplating playing in one league because they believe it will give them a better shot at making it into xxx college, that is not bearing out in reality.


Oh Canada, they asked me question dudes.  Please don;t ask me any, thanks


----------



## Soccer43

SoccerJones said:


> ECNL
> Seasons
> Sept-Late November.  Break.  Resume February/March-june/July
> Practice 2-3 days a week with games on The Weekend.
> No caps on games per weekend/tournament.  They can go to Surf, Silverlake, Davis, etc. and play 6 games in 3 days.  Those tourney happen a lot during the summer.
> ECNL teams can still play in other leagues (a lot of clubs do) which doubles the amount of games during the seasonal months.
> .............................................
> High School Soccer
> Starts first weekend in November and lasts until Mid February.


ECNL teams do not play 6 games in a weekend tournament.  At the showcases it is one game a day over 3-4 days.   HS generally starts training after Thanksgiving with some type of a break over the holidays before most of games happening between Jan-Feb


----------



## SoccerJones

Soccer43 said:


> ECNL teams do not play 6 games in a weekend tournament.  At the showcases it is one game a day over 3-4 days.   HS generally starts training after Thanksgiving with some type of a break over the holidays before most of games happening between Jan-Feb


I was talking about summer tourneys...not showcases.  my bad!


----------



## Dubs

SoccerJones said:


> It's very far and few between.  I think it's dumb to tell a kid (HS) that she can't play HS sports.  Especially when they take the whole month of December and part of January off.  If I had to do it all over again, I would probably encourage my kid to take the winter months off just from a recovery perspective.  Think about it...ECNL practices 2--4 days a week and games on the weekend (they also compete in other leagues NPL, ODP, etc).  that's 4-6 days a week.  GDA has a mandatory 3-4 day training plus games on the weekends.  Granted the number of games is FAR less than ECNL (which I like) but still it's a huge commitment.
> 
> They go from these clubs to HS training 5-6 days a week then 1-3 games a week...where's the rest?  After HS season it's back to the grind until July...take a month off and back in the saddle.  It's no wonder that our HS kids have a high ACL injury rate among players.  The misconception is that if you're not training your'e not getting better.  With soccer, if you're not training, REST!  cause you need it


Totally agree with this.  My DD is just coming back from ACL and it has definitely been a time of reflection.  Though she has attacked her recovery with the same ferocity as her soccer career, there has been time for her body to actually rest and recover.  She has worked on other things, in terms of the weight room and getting her body right for the next level.  She has also had a chance to REALLY focus on school and the SAT/ACT.  It's incredible to think that she has been on the grind with soccer since age 9 (though she did play other sports through middle school) without a real break.  Don't get me wrong...there's no place she'd rather be than the pitch, but this injury has been a blessing in other ways.  Now back to the grind!


----------



## Soccerhelper

oh canada said:


> Please let's not make this another off-topic thread where a poster that I've blocked tell us all about his kid.


It's a free country in America.  Ignore me and my kid please Canada.  I would appreciate that a lot. 
My dd worked her ass off last night so I went out and got her a double scoop of mint chip ice cream just now. No cake though


----------



## Dubs

SoccerJones said:


> my thoughts exactly.
> 
> ECNL
> Seasons
> Sept-Late November.  Break.  Resume February/March-june/July
> Practice 2-3 days a week with games on The Weekend.
> No caps on games per weekend/tournament.  They can go to Surf, Silverlake, Davis, etc. and play 6 games in 3 days.  Those tourney happen a lot during the summer.
> ECNL teams can still play in other leagues (a lot of clubs do) which doubles the amount of games during the seasonal months.
> 
> GDA
> Mid-Late August.  Break December.  Resume training (no games) in January.  Finish in June/July.
> Only play a limited number of games per weekend.  No outside leagues.  Showcases usually last 4 days, with a 1 day rest day in between.
> NO high school soccer.
> 
> High School Soccer
> Starts first weekend in November and lasts until Mid February.
> 
> As you can see, kids who play higher level soccer DO NOT get a break, even if they play HS.  It's continuous.  Those are probably not the 100% facts but they're pretty darn close.  Again, just talking about kids who play in the top two leagues in the country-ECNL and GDA.  They both have their good and bad.


You are correct.  My DD's team plays both ECNL and NPL.  NPL games are supposed to be more to get girls that don't get as much time in ECNL games more field time, but everyone still plays.  Then we have 3 ECNL events + playoffs + Silverlakes.  There is about 2 1/2 weeks of downtime before we're back at it again.  It really doesn't stop.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Dubs said:


> Totally agree with this.  My DD is just coming back from ACL and it has definitely been a time of reflection.  Though she has attacked her recovery with the same ferocity as her soccer career, there has been time for her body to actually rest and recover.  She has worked on other things, in terms of the weight room and getting her body right for the next level.  She has also had a chance to REALLY focus on school and the SAT/ACT.  It's incredible to think that she has been on the grind with soccer since age 9 (though she did play other sports through middle school) without a real break.  Don't get me wrong...there's no place she'd rather be than the pitch, but this injury has been a blessing in other ways.  Now back to the grind!


What program put her through so much soccer like that if you don;t mine sharing with us? I tore my ACL when I was 29 in a church basketball league. I played hoops since I was 7 and played high school and then everyday until I tore it. Sorry to hear about that for your dd   When my dd played with Tad Bobak we practiced two times a week and then he gave the girls off April through August. I loved it then parents were complaining that the time off would set them back and 4 years later they sell soccer 365 24/7 soccer.


----------



## SoccerJones

Soccerhelper said:


> What program put her through so much soccer like that if you don;t mine sharing with us? I tore my ACL when I was 29 in a church basketball league. I played hoops since I was 7 and played high school and then everyday until I tore it. Sorry to hear about that for your dd   When my dd played with Tad Bobak we practiced two times a week and then he gave the girls off April through August. I loved it then parents were complaining that the time off would set them back and 4 years later they sell soccer 365 24/7 soccer.


FYI: Girls are 2-8 times more likely to tear their ACL than boys and agree...soccer is a multi-million dollar industry.


----------



## Soccerhelper

SoccerJones said:


> FYI: Girls are 2-8 times more likely to tear their ACL than boys and agree...soccer is a multi-million dollar industry.


Multi Billion bro, not million.


----------



## Dubs

Soccerhelper said:


> What program put her through so much soccer like that if you don;t mine sharing with us? I tore my ACL when I was 29 in a church basketball league. I played hoops since I was 7 and played high school and then everyday until I tore it. Sorry to hear about that for your dd   When my dd played with Tad Bobak we practiced two times a week and then he gave the girls off April through August. I loved it then parents were complaining that the time off would set them back and 4 years later they sell soccer 365 24/7 soccer.


She plays for a big reputable club but don't want to implicate anyone.  Before we hit ECNL at age 14 we only practiced twice per week and one optional clinic (which everyone did).  Once ECNL we went 3 times per week + 1 fitness day, then games most weekend days.  Basically Friday off.  That's how its been for last 3+ years. I suppose it's too much when you add in HS soccer, though the intensity of HS soccer isn't nearly what her club team is even though it's 5 days per week.  I guess it just depends what works for your DD and your family.  My kid has thrived in this environment despite the ACL set back.  She will ascend to whatever heights she wants to and this environment has helped her create her own work ethic which has translated into working on her game/body almost everyday.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Dubs said:


> She plays for a big reputable club but don't want to implicate anyone.  Before we hit ECNL at age 14 we only practiced twice per week and one optional clinic (which everyone did).  Once ECNL we went 3 times per week + 1 fitness day, then games most weekend days.  Basically Friday off.  That's how its been for last 3+ years. I suppose it's too much when you add in HS soccer, though the intensity of HS soccer isn't nearly what her club team is even though it's 5 days per week.  I guess it just depends what works for your DD and your family.  My kid has thrived in this environment despite the ACL set back.  She will ascend to whatever heights she wants to and this environment has helped her create her own work ethic which has translated into working on her game/body almost everyday.


Thanks for sharing and I understand not wanting to implicate anyone.  That is over use but I let my kid train for 16 months before the DA when she was 12 and 13.  Big mistake on my part but I was new to this arena and was told this is the new way for girls.  My dd team trained like the MNT because the WNT girls wanted to be equal I was told. Insane training that I believe no one has or will every train girls like that ever again.


----------



## SoccerJones

Soccerhelper said:


> Thanks for sharing and I understand not wanting to implicate anyone.  That is over use but I let my kid train for 16 months before the DA when she was 12 and 13.  Big mistake on my part but I was new to this arena and was told this is the new way for girls.  My dd team trained like the MNT because the WNT girls wanted to be equal I was told. Insane training that I believe no one has or will every train girls like that ever again.


I'm to a fan of the GDA, but on thing I do admire is their focus (supposedly) on development of # of games kids will play in a year, week, weekend.  Yes there are more trainings, but fewer games and the whole basis behind it is so kids can work on development.  Now depending on the club, that may or may not be happening but that is the goal.  @Dubs  sorry to hear about your daughter.  That's a sucky situation to be in and hope she returns to full health!


----------



## Soccerhelper

SoccerJones said:


> I'm to a fan of the GDA, but on thing I do admire is their focus (supposedly) on development of # of games kids will play in a year, week, weekend.  Yes there are more trainings, but fewer games and the whole basis behind it is so kids can work on development.  Now depending on the club, that may or may not be happening but that is the goal.  @Dubs  sorry to hear about your daughter.  That's a sucky situation to be in and hope she returns to full health!


Im assuming you're not a fan of DA but you like less games?  I liked that idea too but girls will be girls.  Talk to refs. They ALL tell me girls are way more physical than the males.  It's true.  I watched boys play last night and they don;t do what the girls do when they get even.


----------



## Dubs

SoccerJones said:


> I'm to a fan of the GDA, but on thing I do admire is their focus (supposedly) on development of # of games kids will play in a year, week, weekend.  Yes there are more trainings, but fewer games and the whole basis behind it is so kids can work on development.  Now depending on the club, that may or may not be happening but that is the goal.  @Dubs  sorry to hear about your daughter.  That's a sucky situation to be in and hope she returns to full health!


Appreciate the postive thoughts.  I have no doubt she will return better than before (she has no choice ).  You make a good point about it depending on clubs.  People need to really understand that it has very little to do with platform (DA or ECNL) because each are truly governed by the club and club philosophy.  Sure they provide a framework and some oversight, but it will ultimately fall on the DOC of the club and the coaches as to how curriculum is administered.  That will never change.  As many have said, get with the best coach you can who focuses on development from an early age and you'll be on the right track.  Then worry about exposure/team when you get to the teens.. If you're lucky, you can get with great coach/club/team that is in either DA/ECNL when the time comes and exposure is built in.


----------



## futboldad1

SoccerJones said:


> I'm to a fan of the GDA, but on thing I do admire is their focus (supposedly) on development of # of games kids will play in a year, week, weekend.  Yes there are more trainings, but fewer games and the whole basis behind it is so kids can work on development.  Now depending on the club, that may or may not be happening but that is the goal.  @Dubs  sorry to hear about your daughter.  That's a sucky situation to be in and hope she returns to full health!


It's funny, but the lack of games is my major gripe...I don't think there are enough emphasis on games in the DA....one game per day rule is perfect.....but having to take 4 full days (plus travel) to play a 3 game show case is expensive and not being allowed to play non-DA opposition.....you need a training:game balance but the 4:1 ratio neglects the facts that games are huge for competition/decisions/overall development....not to mention 4:1 often ends up being closer to 8:1....I'd prefer 3:2.....the street ballers in Europe and South America play games v each other every day for hours....too many games is not an issue in this country imo (apart from crazy tournaments where you can see up to 3 games in one day!!!)

@Dubs good luck to your DD moving forwards


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Soccerhelper said:


> It's what these clubs are selling to top goats these days.  My dd played with and against some tough goats and most of the best of the best are being home schooled by daddy and or a tutor.  These are can;t miss talented players and I hope they make some money down the road.  I know OM is all set.


"Can't miss"... until they tear an ACL or asshole daddy pushes them to the point they disappear with their 16-year old boyfriend.


----------



## Soccerhelper

futboldad1 said:


> It's funny, but the lack of games is my major gripe...I don't think there are enough emphasis on games in the DA....one game per day rule is perfect.....but having to take 4 full days (plus travel) to play a 3 game show case is expensive and not being allowed to play non-DA opposition.....you need a training:game balance but the 4:1 ratio neglects the facts that games are huge for competition/decisions/overall development....not to mention 4:1 often ends up being closer to 8:1....I'd prefer 3:2.....the street ballers in Europe and South America play games v each other every day for hours....too many game sis not an issue in this country imo (apart from crazy tournaments where you can see up to 3 games in one day!!!)


Winner!!!!


----------



## Soccerhelper

The Outlaw said:


> "Can't miss"... until they tear an ACL or asshole daddy pushes them to the point they disappear with their 16-year old boyfriend.


Watch out for boyfriends.  My dd old team had a boy friend blacklist and it was highly discouraged to even entertain that idea.  I would hear shit like this, "did you hear that so and so has a boy friend."  Talk about being watched at 13. Biggest double standard to our precious girls.  Some girls practically have to be perfect to make it these day for YNT or top top college.  I would have had to move to Montana and lock my dd in the basement with a soccer ball during snow time so she can be the best. Truly sad!!!


----------



## Soccerhelper

and for the record, my dd has never had a boyfriend (That I know of...lol).  They like her but she is very hard to please.  I like that about her.  Very high standards and one big lie detector and street smart detective she is.  She has learned the hard way how *some* men (coaches, docs) talk and behave towards woman and girls.  She is my hero for being true to herself.  I love her truly @oh canada and I actually do care about ALL kids.  This is not just about my kid dude......


----------



## SoccerJones

Soccerhelper said:


> Im assuming you're not a fan of DA but you like less games?  I liked that idea too but girls will be girls.  Talk to refs. They ALL tell me girls are way more physical than the males.  It's true.  I watched boys play last night and they don;t do what the girls do when they get even.


Not a big fan of it, but was fortunate to have an amazing doc/coaching staff.  

I like the idea of limiting the number of games per year.  Not having a limit vs. having a low limit...where's the compromise.  My biggest complain is how spring/summer tournaments (not showcases) work.  In many instances, my daughter has played 5-6 games in 3 days multiple weekends out of the month.  Even if it's 2 weekends, that's anywhere between 10-12 games IN A MONTH.  I enjoy watching them play but have to admit it's very hard on their bodies.  

While GDA showcases are expensive and overkill (GDA does get a kickback from Anthony travel-up to 15%) I do agree that the 4/3 model is not as good as the 3/2.  ECNL was great...Get in, play Friday, Saturday and Sunday and be home.  Lastly, the December showcase is usually hosted right before finals.  The first year our daughter didn't go because of this and so did a lot of her teammates.    Coach wasn't happy but understood that school is first.  on the flip side, the boys have it easy as they have theirs during thanksgiving break.  smh


----------



## warrior49

The Outlaw said:


> "Can't miss"... until they tear an ACL or asshole daddy pushes them to the point they disappear with their 16-year old boyfriend.


Tinder has ruined many a soccer career. Social media + Teenage girls = a sh!t show. Facts. More than a few of my DD's former teammates from the club days lost their minds around the age of 16 and never played the sport again. Sad.


----------



## Soccerhelper

warrior49 said:


> Tinder has ruined many a soccer career. Social media + Teenage girls = a sh!t show. Facts. More than a few of my DD's former teammates from the club days lost their minds around the age of 16 and never played the sport again. Sad.


Wow!!!


----------



## Simisoccerfan

futboldad1 said:


> It's funny, but the lack of games is my major gripe...I don't think there are enough emphasis on games in the DA....one game per day rule is perfect.....but having to take 4 full days (plus travel) to play a 3 game show case is expensive and not being allowed to play non-DA opposition.....you need a training:game balance but the 4:1 ratio neglects the facts that games are huge for competition/decisions/overall development....not to mention 4:1 often ends up being closer to 8:1....I'd prefer 3:2.....the street ballers in Europe and South America play games v each other every day for hours....too many games is not an issue in this country imo (apart from crazy tournaments where you can see up to 3 games in one day!!!)
> 
> @Dubs good luck to your DD moving forwards


Read this article.  https://www.mcall.com/ct-90mins-guardiola-epl-holiday-matches-will-kill-players-20180103-story.html

EPL teams play 4 games over the course of 11 days over the Holidays.  Every year they see way more injuries during this period.   Ideally all players including our dd's should not be playing more than 1 game a week after the age of 13   This will allow recovery and prevent injury.   Playing soccer is not like volleyball or softball were you can play a bunch of games in a row.  Street soccer fields are way smaller and involve way less running.   I know that most parent's would be upset to drive a long distance and stay in a hotel just to see one game.  They want see their kids play in multiple games while limiting their expenses.  But I say stop putting your kids health secondary to your own needs.  Demand that your teams play less tournaments.  At minimum encourage your clubs to run tournaments that don't have teams playing multiple games per day.   At a minimum if you must play showcases/tournaments attend ones like those that are run with rules similar to the DA that require a day of rest.  Put your kids health ahead of your pocket book.   Support the 21st Century Model being voted on in College Soccer that allows the sport to be run over 2 seasons limiting the amount of games played per week.  

If you don't support this then I suggest that during everyone of your kids games you spend the entire time they are on the field running around the outside of the field yourself splitting your time between running and jogging.   Let's see how you can last and how easy you recover.


----------



## futboldad1

Simisoccerfan said:


> Read this article.  https://www.mcall.com/ct-90mins-guardiola-epl-holiday-matches-will-kill-players-20180103-story.html
> 
> EPL teams play 4 games over the course of 11 days over the Holidays.  Every year they see way more injuries during this period.   Ideally all players including our dd's should not be playing more than 1 game a week after the age of 13   This will allow recovery and prevent injury.   Playing soccer is not like volleyball or softball were you can play a bunch of games in a row.  Street soccer fields are way smaller and involve way less running.   I know that most parent's would be upset to drive a long distance and stay in a hotel just to see one game.  They want see their kids play in multiple games while limiting their expenses.  But I say stop putting your kids health secondary to your own needs.  Demand that your teams play less tournaments.  At minimum encourage your clubs to run tournaments that don't have teams playing multiple games per day.   At a minimum if you must play showcases/tournaments attend ones like those that are run with rules similar to the DA that require a day of rest.  Put your kids health ahead of your pocket book.   Support the 21st Century Model being voted on in College Soccer that allows the sport to be run over 2 seasons limiting the amount of games played per week.
> 
> *If you don't support this then I suggest that during everyone of your kids games you spend the entire time they are on the field running around the outside of the field yourself splitting your time between running and jogging.   Let's see how you can last and how easy you recover.*


You picked the wrong dad for this challenge - I won't get into my sporting past but each year I run at least one 5k (16:32 PR), one 10k (33.58 PR ) one half (1:22:49PR) one full marathon (2:56:01)....this is in addition to my two sports leagues

As for your original point, I CLEARLY stated that more than one game per day is bad for kids and I keep mine away from that....street soccer fields come in all shapes and sizes....They are often grass parks and involve more running as the kids play for 2 hours a night and 5 hours on a weekend....the day of rest at a showcase is a deal that benefits Anthony Travel and the hotels I can tell you that much....


----------



## Simisoccerfan

futboldad1 said:


> You picked the wrong dad for this challenge - I won't get into my sporting past but each year I run at least one 5k (16:32 PR), one 10k (33.58 PR ) one half (1:22:49PR) one full marathon (2:56:01)....this is in addition to my two sports leagues
> 
> As for your original point, I CLEARLY stated that more than one game per day is bad for kids and I keep mine away from that....street soccer fields come in all shapes and sizes....They are often grass parks and involve more running as the kids play for 2 hours a night and 5 hours on a weekend....the day of rest at a showcase is a deal that benefits Anthony Travel and the hotels I can tell you that much....


 Happy to see that you might be the one Dad here that could play a full soccer game multiple days in a row with no injuries!


----------



## Soccerhelper

futboldad1 said:


> You picked the wrong dad for this challenge - I won't get into my sporting past but each year I run at least one 5k (16:32 PR), one 10k (33.58 PR ) one half (1:22:49PR) one full marathon (2:56:01)....this is in addition to my two sports leagues
> 
> As for your original point, I CLEARLY stated that more than one game per day is bad for kids and I keep mine away from that....street soccer fields come in all shapes and sizes....They are often grass parks and involve more running as the kids play for 2 hours a night and 5 hours on a weekend....the day of rest at a showcase is a deal that benefits Anthony Travel and the hotels I can tell you that much....


Ok runner dad (jk), I challenge you to a 5k next time I'm up in LA. I need someone to go after since I win all these old dude races down in OC. My knee is even better with the new cadaver tenon I got from a guy name Bruce who happen to be a runner.


----------



## gkrent

This is the longest thread hijack ever.  and MAP isn't even here.


----------



## Soccerfan2

gkrent said:


> This is the longest thread hijack ever.  and MAP isn't even here.


This used to be full of useful information. Lately not so much.


----------



## Giesbock

Hmm the common thread of hijacked informative conversations seems to masquerade under who knows how many names!


----------



## sdb

Can anyone recommend girls summer ID camps on the East Coast that are well attended by multiple Ivy league coaches, or do you have to go school by school? Thanks!


----------



## SoccerJones

sdb said:


> Can anyone recommend girls summer ID camps on the East Coast that are well attended by multiple Ivy league coaches, or do you have to go school by school? Thanks!


I'd reach out to the schools your interested in, send a video and a welcome letter.  Then if she's gonna be playing in any big showcase tourneys send them the schedule to ask if they'd be attending.  much better chance than going and spending money on an id camp.  unless your daughter is a standout player, there's a good chance she'll get lost in the mix with the rest of the peeps.


----------



## sdb

SoccerJones said:


> I'd reach out to the schools your interested in, send a video and a welcome letter.  Then if she's gonna be playing in any big showcase tourneys send them the schedule to ask if they'd be attending.  much better chance than going and spending money on an id camp.  unless your daughter is a standout player, there's a good chance she'll get lost in the mix with the rest of the peeps.


I appreciate the feedback. We're going to be on the East Coast this summer anyway, and I'd like her to have the experience of attending an ID camp regardless of its effectiveness in any recruiting process she may undertake. So I'm wondering which camp would give her the best experience.


----------



## Giesbock

Soccer Masters just held and excellent camp in Vero Beach, FL.  Head coaches from top tier schools (both soccer and academics) were actively working with and teaching the girls.  More of a teaching camp than recruiting per se and as you say, just getting out there gets them used to not worrying who’s watching!  

Definitely follow through with thank you notes, remind them what bib # you wore, etc.


----------



## RHMF23

SoccerJones said:


> I'd reach out to the schools your interested in, send a video and a welcome letter.  Then if she's gonna be playing in any big showcase tourneys send them the schedule to ask if they'd be attending.  much better chance than going and spending money on an id camp.  unless your daughter is a standout player, there's a good chance she'll get lost in the mix with the rest of the peeps.


My DD back in the day did a one page resume with her photo, height, weight, positon(s), dominate foot, club, coach contact number/email, accolades (pdp, id2, ODP, National training centers, yrs as team captain, etc) and imbedded a table with her showcase schedule and future scheduled showcases.  It worked well for us when she was a freshman and sophomore just spit balling interest on her top 10 list.  It was easily printable for a coach to put in a binder.  Eventually we imbedded into the email with an intro and left as a PDF attachment also for printing.


----------



## Dubs

sdb said:


> I appreciate the feedback. We're going to be on the East Coast this summer anyway, and I'd like her to have the experience of attending an ID camp regardless of its effectiveness in any recruiting process she may undertake. So I'm wondering which camp would give her the best experience.


Definitely aim for the camps that are specific to one school assuming your DD has a solid list of places she wants to go.  They are more pointed adn focused in terms of having less girls and more girls interested in that specific school + whole coaching staff will be there.  The buffet style camps (as many have said on this forum) are more a money maker for the coaches rather than an actual ID camp although there are success stories.  Make sure your DD and her coach reaches out to each of the coaches at the school's camp alterting them that she will be coming.  As far as resume...most are added as part of the highlight video.  Send video link along with your intro email...


----------



## Woobie06

Few Question for all of you Vets and those smack dab in the middle of it out there....

(1) In terms of registering interest with a specific school when did you start?  How many did you target...5, 10, 15 - did you pick by conference or locale, majors, etc.?  Grade 7, 8, 9..., U13, U14, U15?, Does it make a difference Boy/Girl, Field Player/Keeper, etc?  When is too early a

This will vary incredibly I'm sure, and sure things change a bit year after year.  Just interested in people's approach and learning from others successes/opportunities.

(2) Frequency of interaction...I'm sure that info is encouraged to be shared from the player, dates of showcases, game updates, etc.?  How often did your player send updates as I know there are rules regarding when the schools can make contact.

(3) What tools did you use?  Instagram, Hudl, Personal Page....just curious.

(4) Video - Did you do Highlight Reels?  How often did you update?  Fall, Spring, every few games, etc.  I have heard coach's say they watch 30 seconds - minute tops, I have heard people say don't waste your time, and I have heard keeper families say to incorporate training vids in the reel.  Just curious about peoples experiences.

(5) ID Camps for schools you registered with or cattle call, destination ID Camps?  I see both options referenced on this thread, but it seems "wait for personal invite" seems to be majority, but other routes have worked for others.

(6) How involved was your club/coach, trainer, etc.?

(7) How did you know they were interested prior to the allowable contact date after the end of the Sophomore year?


Just looking hear some recent stories from those that have been there, done it, or are in it, and I am sure it is pretty unique across the board.  I promise to share our family's experience if we to that point.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

We started when she hit HS.  She spent several years righting coaches to attend her tournaments/showcases and attended multiple camps both school specific and camps with multiple colleges.  We created a video and used the free part of various online services.   I believe all of this was a complete waste of time because she was not playing on a top team until her Junior year.   It did not matter how good she was since she was not playing with other top notch players nor was she playing against the top opponents.   She got in front of probably 100 plus coaches before her Junior year but it did not matter since it is so hard to evaluate talent if they are not playing with/against top talent.  Once she hit the DA things changed dramatically.   We had a crazy amount of coaches watching games.  Also our assistant coach was talking to these coaches and relaying interest to us. The sidelines were like a feeding frenzy.  She ended up with multiple offers and most were from coaches she never had written too.  

So my advice is get your kid playing for the DA or ECNL.  Let your coach know what schools your kid is interested in.  If they have game they will get recruited.   Once a coach is watching your kid play and they are on a top team, if they want her they will reach out to you.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Woobie06 said:


> Few Question for all of you Vets and those smack dab in the middle of it out there....
> 
> (1) In terms of registering interest with a specific school when did you start?  How many did you target...5, 10, 15 - did you pick by conference or locale, majors, etc.?  Grade 7, 8, 9..., U13, U14, U15?, Does it make a difference Boy/Girl, Field Player/Keeper, etc?  When is too early a
> 
> This will vary incredibly I'm sure, and sure things change a bit year after year.  Just interested in people's approach and learning from others successes/opportunities.
> 
> (2) Frequency of interaction...I'm sure that info is encouraged to be shared from the player, dates of showcases, game updates, etc.?  How often did your player send updates as I know there are rules regarding when the schools can make contact.
> 
> (3) What tools did you use?  Instagram, Hudl, Personal Page....just curious.
> 
> (4) Video - Did you do Highlight Reels?  How often did you update?  Fall, Spring, every few games, etc.  I have heard coach's say they watch 30 seconds - minute tops, I have heard people say don't waste your time, and I have heard keeper families say to incorporate training vids in the reel.  Just curious about peoples experiences.
> 
> (5) ID Camps for schools you registered with or cattle call, destination ID Camps?  I see both options referenced on this thread, but it seems "wait for personal invite" seems to be majority, but other routes have worked for others.
> 
> (6) How involved was your club/coach, trainer, etc.?
> 
> (7) How did you know they were interested prior to the allowable contact date after the end of the Sophomore year?
> 
> 
> Just looking hear some recent stories from those that have been there, done it, or are in it, and I am sure it is pretty unique across the board.  I promise to share our family's experience if we to that point.


We are in the middle of it. I've learned a LOT from people that have already been through it, especially on this board.

For one of my DDs (top level DA player), we started spring of 8th grade. She wrote pre-showcase emails to about 10 schools and attached her highlight video (I made it myself using her DA game film) and her player profile from CollegeFitFinder (supplied by our club). She also attended her first ID camp that spring. For my younger DD (mid to lower level DA player) we will wait until her freshman year to start anything (that might even be earlier than necessary for her level, but I find the practice writing emails and talking to coaches at camps helps them grow as people). I don't have a boy so I can't speak to specifics, but in general it seems boys get recruited later than girls.

So far we have updated the video every 6 months. My daughter and I do the editing and select clips together as a team. We keep collegefitfinder updated regularly. DD also has a twitter and keeps a topdrawersoccer profile updated. I don't know how important any of these things actually are, but we wanted schools to be able to find information about her easily should they want to. It's also an opportunity for her to learn to manage her messaging, and I think that's a valuable job seeking skill for later on.

We attend school specific ID camps only of schools that she actually wants to go to. The goal of attending is to experience the campus and coaches to see what she thinks, and to get her on the radar of that school. I do not wait for an invite, but I do know how to target what level she'll get notice from. I'm not going to take my kids to a camp where they don't fit the profile of the typical player. One way to check this is to look through a school's roster and see what the bio looks like for college players on the roster who start or play a lot. Do your kid's accomplishments at least sort of match those of the players on the current roster?

So far, the club's involvement isn't a lot. Club liaison will contact ahead to let a school know my player is coming to ID camp. Club coach relays messages (including general interest) back to me that he's gotten from college coaches about my player (either directly or via club liaison). They are very supportive in those two areas.

Until June 15 after sophmore year, contact is just emails before games, showcases and ID camps and thank you's afterwards when a coach has seen her play. She includes and updates or new accolades in these emails. If she's emailing a coach that doesn't yet know who she is, she includes a list of highlights and gives reasons she wants to attend the school and actions she will take to follow up with them later. If she's already on the school's radar, the email is just any new updates and when and where she will play.

We know a school is interested when they tell our coach. Sometimes we suspect a school is interested when we get an email that doesn't look like it came from a subscription list and says something like we saw you play, but we can't talk to you yet, but here's info about our school and camp. This is new territory for everyone that gets these because it's the first year of the new rule - so I guess we will all find out come June 15th after sophmore year how much of this perceived interest is real. We have no way to know what "interested" means (ie we might want you but we have no money for you vs. you are our #1 recruit) but it helps us have feedback about what kind of schools are finding her to be a potential recruit.

Good luck! Lots of people shared with me to get us to this point, and we are still learning each step along the way as we go.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Our experience is that all of the endless camp emails from coaches was garbage.  Once your kid can be contacted, coaches will contact them either through your coach or directly to you (they even may call you on your cell).   I do think writing coaches to attend your events is a good practice but since your kids play DA they will have the opportunity to play in front of hundreds of coaches.   A better practice would be to get the list of coaches that attended and have your daughter write them a thank you letter.   That way she is showing interest to coaches that actually saw her play and if they were interested enough they might just respond.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerfan2 said:


> We are in the middle of it. I've learned a LOT from people that have already been through it, especially on this board.
> 
> For one of my DDs (top level DA player), we started spring of 8th grade. She wrote pre-showcase emails to about 10 schools and attached her highlight video (I made it myself using her DA game film) and her player profile from CollegeFitFinder (supplied by our club). She also attended her first ID camp that spring. For my younger DD (mid to lower level DA player) we will wait until her freshman year to start anything (that might even be earlier than necessary for her level, but I find the practice writing emails and talking to coaches at camps helps them grow as people). I don't have a boy so I can't speak to specifics, but in general it seems boys get recruited later than girls.
> 
> So far we have updated the video every 6 months. My daughter and I do the editing and select clips together as a team. We keep collegefitfinder updated regularly. DD also has a twitter and keeps a topdrawersoccer profile updated. I don't know how important any of these things actually are, but we wanted schools to be able to find information about her easily should they want to. It's also an opportunity for her to learn to manage her messaging, and I think that's a valuable job seeking skill for later on.
> 
> We attend school specific ID camps only of schools that she actually wants to go to. The goal of attending is to experience the campus and coaches to see what she thinks, and to get her on the radar of that school. I do not wait for an invite, but I do know how to target what level she'll get notice from. I'm not going to take my kids to a camp where they don't fit the profile of the typical player. One way to check this is to look through a school's roster and see what the bio looks like for college players on the roster who start or play a lot. Do your kid's accomplishments at least sort of match those of the players on the current roster?
> 
> So far, the club's involvement isn't a lot. Club liaison will contact ahead to let a school know my player is coming to ID camp. Club coach relays messages (including general interest) back to me that he's gotten from college coaches about my player (either directly or via club liaison). They are very supportive in those two areas.
> 
> Until June 15 after sophmore year, contact is just emails before games, showcases and ID camps and thank you's afterwards when a coach has seen her play. She includes and updates or new accolades in these emails. If she's emailing a coach that doesn't yet know who she is, she includes a list of highlights and gives reasons she wants to attend the school and actions she will take to follow up with them later. If she's already on the school's radar, the email is just any new updates and when and where she will play.
> 
> We know a school is interested when they tell our coach. Sometimes we suspect a school is interested when we get an email that doesn't look like it came from a subscription list and says something like we saw you play, but we can't talk to you yet, but here's info about our school and camp. This is new territory for everyone that gets these because it's the first year of the new rule - so I guess we will all find out come June 15th after sophmore year how much of this perceived interest is real. We have no way to know what "interested" means (ie we might want you but we have no money for you vs. you are our #1 recruit) but it helps us have feedback about what kind of schools are finding her to be a potential recruit.
> 
> Good luck! Lots of people shared with me to get us to this point, and we are still learning each step along the way as we go.


I am officially retired from this website (my player just graduated from college in December so she isn't a youth player anymore) but this is great advice to listen to.  Good luck to your players.  You have them on a great path and you are very pragmatic about the process which is the key.  I started this thread right before she started college 4 years ago in order to try and get some useful info out there that had helped me during my daughter's process.

Enjoy the ride it goes fast.  Now I have to fly to DC to see her play.  Now back into exile...


----------



## Dubs

MakeAPlay said:


> I am officially retired from this website (my player just graduated from college in December so she isn't a youth player anymore) but this is great advice to listen to.  Good luck to your players.  You have them on a great path and you are very pragmatic about the process which is the key.  I started this thread right before she started college 4 years ago in order to try and get some useful info out there that had helped me during my daughter's process.
> 
> Enjoy the ride it goes fast.  Now I have to fly to DC to see her play.  Now back into exile...


Come on MAP!  Don't leave us.  I need you until at least my kid signs her NLI


----------



## Dubs

Woobie06 said:


> Few Question for all of you Vets and those smack dab in the middle of it out there....
> 
> (1) In terms of registering interest with a specific school when did you start?  How many did you target...5, 10, 15 - did you pick by conference or locale, majors, etc.?  Grade 7, 8, 9..., U13, U14, U15?, Does it make a difference Boy/Girl, Field Player/Keeper, etc?  When is too early a
> 
> This will vary incredibly I'm sure, and sure things change a bit year after year.  Just interested in people's approach and learning from others successes/opportunities.
> 
> (2) Frequency of interaction...I'm sure that info is encouraged to be shared from the player, dates of showcases, game updates, etc.?  How often did your player send updates as I know there are rules regarding when the schools can make contact.
> 
> (3) What tools did you use?  Instagram, Hudl, Personal Page....just curious.
> 
> (4) Video - Did you do Highlight Reels?  How often did you update?  Fall, Spring, every few games, etc.  I have heard coach's say they watch 30 seconds - minute tops, I have heard people say don't waste your time, and I have heard keeper families say to incorporate training vids in the reel.  Just curious about peoples experiences.
> 
> (5) ID Camps for schools you registered with or cattle call, destination ID Camps?  I see both options referenced on this thread, but it seems "wait for personal invite" seems to be majority, but other routes have worked for others.
> 
> (6) How involved was your club/coach, trainer, etc.?
> 
> (7) How did you know they were interested prior to the allowable contact date after the end of the Sophomore year?
> 
> 
> Just looking hear some recent stories from those that have been there, done it, or are in it, and I am sure it is pretty unique across the board.  I promise to share our family's experience if we to that point.


You are defintely asking all the right questions....many of which can be answered on this forum, however, as has been mentioned, each journey is unique.  With my DD (and before the rule change), she was getting interest Spring of 8th grade year and actually started to have conversations that summer.  If your kid has been identified through competition (in our case top team in ECNL and she has always played PDP)  the process becomes about casting a broad net to figure out exactly what/where your DD wants and understanding where the interest is. I believe she had about 30 schools on the initial list.  She started with intro emails.  She had a highlight video that she would include in the email.  That video had all her relevant info + her soccer resume.  I would say video is only important for establishing first bit of contact.  After that it's only important if a coach that is interested requests more recent footage.

By the time her Freshman year came, she had already been on a few site visits, as well as gone to a couple camps.  In my estimation, camps are only effective if there has been interest established prior to attending.  I'm sure there are others that maybe have a different opinion.  If you plan on going, have your DDs coach send a note or call them to inform them she will be coming.  

Another important thing is to establish with your kid's coach what they think is realisitc for them... mid major, power 5, D2, D3, etc.. You're going to need that frank feeback.  Once you have that, you can start pairing down the broad list.  By end of first semester Freshman year, DD had her list cut to 10.  She would email this list of 10 with showcase info. Another thing I thought was very helpful in gauging interest was looking at the local schools of interest, as well as who they were playing during the season and inviting those coaches to regular league games if it was potentially drivable for them during that week since games would be played on Thurs or Fri and then on Sunday.  Example, in the PAC 12, both Washinton teams will come play the SoCal teams through the course of 1 week.  Check these schedules and invite them to come see you play.  Everytime my DD reached out in this way, someone showed up at the game.  Toward the end, they were showing up to practice.  You just never know, but I was always shocked at her success rate and then realized all the schools were looking at her hard. 

Once DD got her list down to 5 end of her Freshman year, we became focused on making sure she understood the ramifications of going to these institutions.  All had interest in her and had spoken to her on a semi regular basis.  Academics, financials, etc... basically what impact this would have on the family.  In the end, when she decided where she really wanted to go, there was some back and forth and some uncertainty on offer.  Uncertainty meaning...when exactly it would come.  It ended up coming Oct of her Sophomore year.  That period of time before the offer can be stressful, but patience is key as had been advised to me by some folks on this forum who I am eternally greatful to.

Hope this is helpful.  Keep connected to this forum.  It has been immensely helpful to our family on a number of fronts.  All the best to you!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Dubs said:


> Come on MAP!  Don't leave us.  I need you until at least my kid signs her NLI


Going back to run interference for his kid.  Washington Spirit is also known as Stanford East.


----------



## Soccerhelper

MakeAPlay said:


> I am officially retired from this website (my player just graduated from college in December so she isn't a youth player anymore) but this is great advice to listen to.  Good luck to your players.  You have them on a great path and you are very pragmatic about the process which is the key.  I started this thread right before she started college 4 years ago in order to try and get some useful info out there that had helped me during my daughter's process.
> 
> Enjoy the ride it goes fast.  Now I have to fly to DC to see her play.  Now back into exile...


Map, thanks for coming back to catch us all up.  TY again for helping me see the truth of where soccer is truly at.  BTW, UCLA is making a nice little run to the NCAA tourney.  Its hard for me to get excited for the Madness if no Bruins.  This coach wants defense first and with that attitude, you can win it all.  Go Bruins in Hoops!!!!


----------



## Giesbock

Yeah this is a super helpful thread!  We’re in the thick of it and I have a question:

My daughter attended an excellent multiple school ID camp recently and within a moth, got invitedby three different coaches to attend their on-campus camps. One of the invites is Stanford.  Are the schools sending the same invitation to everyone on the multiple school camp list so they can fill quota?  Or, are they actually inviting players they are genuinely interested in?  Thanks.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Giesbock said:


> Yeah this is a super helpful thread!  We’re in the thick of it and I have a question:
> 
> My daughter attended an excellent multiple school ID camp recently and within a moth, got invitedby three different coaches to attend their on-campus camps. One of the invites is Stanford.  Are the schools sending the same invitation to everyone on the multiple school camp list so they can fill quota?  Or, are they actually inviting players they are genuinely interested in?  Thanks.


Our experience so far is that when a school is interested in a player prior to June 15 of Soph year, they will tell your coach.
In the case of the Stanford emails from Paul and the Stanford camp invites, we have seen that they do not go to everyone, but they do go to a large number of players.
Some schools send you camp info because you’ve expressed interest in them (by filling out recruiting profile or attending a camp or sending an email). Some schools will send you a camp invite if they’ve seen you play and noticed you even if you have not expressed interest in them. Some schools just mass market their camps. 
Someone else can chime in if they’ve had a different experience.


----------



## Giesbock

Frankly I’d be shocked if there’s a specific interest. More likely she’s part of a larger group invitation.


----------



## Soccerhelper

I have spoken to many in the know, both from club perspective and college.  Everyone needs to relax and take their time finding a good college family for your dd. My son took 12 months to finally pick SDSU.  The whole family drove to UCLA, UCSD, UCSB and SDSU and walked around. My dd will have her picks sometime for her JR year and go on her visits too.  However, she will visit the soccer facilities, the coaches and players and then watch a game.  Talk some more and if the right fit is there, go for it.  If not, wait until Sr signing day. This is so fun when no one knows and you bring two hates and mom and dad are there crying.  Let the girls have some fun with this.  Shoot, 8th graders announcing is crazy imo and way to early.


----------



## Dubs

Giesbock said:


> Yeah this is a super helpful thread!  We’re in the thick of it and I have a question:
> 
> My daughter attended an excellent multiple school ID camp recently and within a moth, got invitedby three different coaches to attend their on-campus camps. One of the invites is Stanford.  Are the schools sending the same invitation to everyone on the multiple school camp list so they can fill quota?  Or, are they actually inviting players they are genuinely interested in?  Thanks.


It depends on what kind of email you got.  I agree when it comes to Stanford... It's probably to a large group.  Also agree that they would reach out to your DDs coach and explain they would like to take a closer look at their camp.  These camps are almost 100% about them making side scratch.    However, if the email is very personal and specific to your DD and actually says they want a closer look, then there may be actual interest.  My DD got many camp invites that were also acommpanied by a call to her coach to make sure the message was relayed that they wanted her there.


----------



## outside!

Giesbock said:


> Yeah this is a super helpful thread!  We’re in the thick of it and I have a question:
> 
> My daughter attended an excellent multiple school ID camp recently and within a moth, got invitedby three different coaches to attend their on-campus camps. One of the invites is Stanford.  Are the schools sending the same invitation to everyone on the multiple school camp list so they can fill quota?  Or, are they actually inviting players they are genuinely interested in?  Thanks.


It does not matter if they are genuinely interested or not. If she has a great day at the camp, they will become genuinely interested. Tell her to go to the camp and have fun and work hard.


----------



## Emma

MakeAPlay said:


> I am officially retired from this website (my player just graduated from college in December so she isn't a youth player anymore) but this is great advice to listen to.  Good luck to your players.  You have them on a great path and you are very pragmatic about the process which is the key.  I started this thread right before she started college 4 years ago in order to try and get some useful info out there that had helped me during my daughter's process.
> 
> Enjoy the ride it goes fast.  Now I have to fly to DC to see her play.  Now back into exile...


It would be nice if you started a thread on NWSL  players.  The journey getting there, remaining there and how the girls continue to survive/or not survive on their incomes.


----------



## Dubs

Emma said:


> It would be nice if you started a thread on NWSL  players.  The journey getting there, remaining there and how the girls continue to survive/or not survive on their incomes.


Agreed MAP.  My DD wants to be a pro and it would be fantastic to have a inside view of how things operate and what improvements are being made.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Emma said:


> It would be nice if you started a thread on NWSL  players.  The journey getting there, remaining there and how the girls continue to survive/or not survive on their incomes.


I almost wrote that to @MakeAPlay . Please Map. I'm 100% interested in the league from a parents perspective of a Goat. No more Unicorns now thank God.  Just the top Goats from all over  the world playing top level soccer.  No more homework? Some I hear during Grad work which is awesome.  I 100% wish your dd success at the Pro level and would like to hear about the journey she's on.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Emma said:


> It would be nice if you started a thread on NWSL  players.  The journey getting there, remaining there and how the girls continue to survive/or not survive on their incomes.


If you are truly interested I might be able to find the time to share what she shares with me.  I can tell you that the Spirit organization is well run and from what I hear they are very deliberate in their processes.  They are the only team that I know of that signed all of their draft picks prior to the season and they even signed a player that was not drafted.  From what I am witnessing most of the teams are only signing their top one or two picks and apparently deciding to offer contracts to the other players down the road if they make the team.

I was worried when my now adult player told me that she wanted to play domestically but her club has been fabulous and she is absolutely loving being there.  She has been there for a few weeks and she is fitting in great.  The level of play is outstanding and the coaching staff is building their team around a style of play.  I'm excited to see where this all goes and I will be racking up my Delta miles this season.

If enough forum folks are interested I could probably share more.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerhelper said:


> I almost wrote that to @MakeAPlay . Please Map. I'm 100% interested in the league from a parents perspective of a Goat. No more Unicorns now thank God.  Just the top Goats from all over  the world playing top level soccer.  No more homework? Some I hear during Grad work which is awesome.  I 100% wish your dd success at the Pro level and would like to hear about the journey she's on.


You aren't kidding about top GOATS from all over the world.  Their new striker is from Japan and is only 5'1 but she is an absolute BADASS.  Just further proof that it isn't about the size of the dog in the fight.  It's all about the size of the fight in the dog!


----------



## Soccerhelper

MakeAPlay said:


> You aren't kidding about top GOATS from all over the world.  Their new striker is from Japan and is only 5'1 but she is an absolute BADASS.  Just further proof that it isn't about the size of the dog in the fight.  It's all about the size of the fight in the dog!


Love it!!!


----------



## Soccerhelper

MakeAPlay said:


> If you are truly interested I might be able to find the time to share what she shares with me.  I can tell you that the Spirit organization is well run and from what I hear they are very deliberate in their processes.  They are the only team that I know of that signed all of their draft picks prior to the season and they even signed a player that was not drafted.  From what I am witnessing most of the teams are only signing their top one or two picks and apparently deciding to offer contracts to the other players down the road if they make the team.
> 
> I was worried when my now adult player told me that she wanted to play domestically but her club has been fabulous and she is absolutely loving being there.  She has been there for a few weeks and she is fitting in great.  The level of play is outstanding and the coaching staff is building their team around a style of play.  I'm excited to see where this all goes and I will be racking up my Delta miles this season.
> 
> If enough forum folks are interested I could probably share more.  Good luck to you and your player.


Can we get some real numbers on salary, benefits, endorsement deals if any?  Maybe a high for the top top, middle for the middle and low for those trying to play soccer still?  I want girls like your dd and all the best to come play in America, not oversees.  Good luck to her


----------



## Emma

MakeAPlay said:


> If you are truly interested I might be able to find the time to share what she shares with me.  I can tell you that the Spirit organization is well run and from what I hear they are very deliberate in their processes.  They are the only team that I know of that signed all of their draft picks prior to the season and they even signed a player that was not drafted.  From what I am witnessing most of the teams are only signing their top one or two picks and apparently deciding to offer contracts to the other players down the road if they make the team.
> 
> I was worried when my now adult player told me that she wanted to play domestically but her club has been fabulous and she is absolutely loving being there.  She has been there for a few weeks and she is fitting in great.  The level of play is outstanding and the coaching staff is building their team around a style of play.  I'm excited to see where this all goes and I will be racking up my Delta miles this season.
> 
> If enough forum folks are interested I could probably share more.  Good luck to you and your player.


While you are at the airport, flying to see her play, feed us some information about her growth and new life.  This is the most useful thread on this forum and the NWSL would continue it a step further for the GOATS that will make it there or for the younger players striving to get to GOAT status.  It would give everyone a realistic view of what to expect.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerhelper said:


> Can we get some real numbers on salary, benefits, endorsement deals if any?  Maybe a high for the top top, middle for the middle and low for those trying to play soccer still?  I want girls like your dd and all the best to come play in America, not oversees.  Good luck to her


Salary varies from a little over $20k to about $100k (for players getting allocation money).  Benefits include an apartment and medical.  Endorsements unfortunately go to the players with some name recognition and not something that most players get.  They were introduced at an NBA game the other day.  It's a labor of love until you become somebody and hopefully then it is still a labor of love.  For my player soccer isn't her endgame.  It is harbor that she is docked in for now.  She is thinking about getting a masters in public policy and is studying LSAT prep books.  Her roommate was already admitted to law school but is deferring her enrollment until she finishes her soccer career.  So far everyone has been amazing.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Emma said:


> While you are at the airport, flying to see her play, feed us some information about her growth and new life.  This is the most useful thread on this forum and the NWSL would continue it a step further for the GOATS that will make it there or for the younger players striving to get to GOAT status.  It would give everyone a realistic view of what to expect.



They provide all of the basics for her.  It's training 4 days a week.  On the field and weights all of those days.  It is a easier than college in some ways for her because no studies but at the same time every training session and weight workout is intense.  Lot's of team related activities.  She went to some Gala at a children's hospital last night.  She went to an NBA game the other day.  She has been adjusting well and even told me that 50 degree whether doesn't bother her anymore.  She had her first practice in the snow.  I don't know how the other teams function but her team is an extremely professional environment and they are very integrated into the community.  it is intense and having good technical skills is critical at every position including keeper.  Everyone there is a pro and brings an intensity to training that is unlike anything even at the elite colleges.

I will learn more as time goes on but so far it has been better than I imagined and she is enjoying the experience.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Soccerhelper

MakeAPlay said:


> Salary varies from a little over $20k to about $100k (for players getting allocation money).  Benefits include an apartment and medical.  Endorsements unfortunately go to the players with some name recognition and not something that most players get.  They were introduced at an NBA game the other day.  It's a labor of love until you become somebody and hopefully then it is still a labor of love.  For my player soccer isn't her endgame.  It is harbor that she is docked in for now.  She is thinking about getting a masters in public policy and is studying LSAT prep books.  Her roommate was already admitted to law school but is deferring her enrollment until she finishes her soccer career.  So far everyone has been amazing.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


Can a player who is top 50% make a living without outside job or help from parents who have a few bucks?  Basically, can a poor girl from LA or Victorville make a living playing pro soccer ball?  Nothing against all the hoopla at NBA game, some of these girls need a true pathway to make a buck or they will be working a real job.  We need real pay for all the work these girls have done to make millions for most of the men and a few girls in the industry.


----------



## gkrent

Soccerhelper said:


> Can a player who is top 50% make a living without outside job or help from parents who have a few bucks?  Basically, can a poor girl from LA or Victorville make a living playing pro soccer ball?  Nothing against all the hoopla at NBA game, some of these girls need a true pathway to make a buck or they will be working a real job.  We need real pay for all the work these girls have done to make millions for most of the men and a few girls in the industry.


Maybe overseas but no woman is going to get rich doing it unless she has >50 caps.


----------



## Soccerhelper

gkrent said:


> Maybe overseas but no woman is going to get rich doing it unless she has >50 caps.


I'm just looking for raw facts.  MP made some coin and maybe a few others.  Is it possible for a poor girl from LA who is good, but not super good like OM, make $50,000 a year as 18 year old?  Skip college can go Pro like OM?  How much is Sophie Smith going to make?


----------



## SD_Soccer

Giesbock said:


> Yeah this is a super helpful thread!  We’re in the thick of it and I have a question:
> 
> My daughter attended an excellent multiple school ID camp recently and within a moth, got invitedby three different coaches to attend their on-campus camps. One of the invites is Stanford.  Are the schools sending the same invitation to everyone on the multiple school camp list so they can fill quota?  Or, are they actually inviting players they are genuinely interested in?  Thanks.


Stanford recruits the very best in the country.  If your daughter is not a national team player or very close to it, then likely a mass email (in other words, revenue generating email to get players to their camp).  As others have said, if a coach is interested, they find a way to let you know (contacting your coach)— even if before the timing they can formally can speak with her.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerhelper said:


> Can a player who is top 50% make a living without outside job or help from parents who have a few bucks?  Basically, can a poor girl from LA or Victorville make a living playing pro soccer ball?  Nothing against all the hoopla at NBA game, some of these girls need a true pathway to make a buck or they will be working a real job.  We need real pay for all the work these girls have done to make millions for most of the men and a few girls in the industry.



Not a question that I can answer other than to say that my kid has an apartment and income and hasn't asked me to deposit any money in her account or reimburse her for any expenses since I left her for the airport over a month ago and that is now officially a record.  She is a rookie and her deal is above minimum but definitely is on the lower end of the scale.  I can only say what I have seen with her team and they are doing a great job taking care of her and letting her continue to play the game that she loves without me having to subsidize it.


----------



## Giesbock

SD_Soccer said:


> Stanford recruits the very best in the country.  If your daughter is not a national team player or very close to it, then likely a mass email (in other words, revenue generating email to get players to their camp).  As others have said, if a coach is interested, they find a way to let you know (contacting your coach)— even if before the timing they can formally can speak with her.


Yeah we’ll she’s not on YNT or close so we’re helping to subsidize the program.  

But as @outside! said a few hours ago, she’s going anyway, enjoying a few days on campus and giving it all.


----------



## SD_Soccer

Giesbock said:


> Yeah we’ll she’s not on YNT or close so we’re helping to subsidize the program.
> 
> But as @outside! said a few hours ago, she’s going anyway, enjoying a few days on campus and giving it all.


As long as parents and players go into it knowing why they are going, that is all that matters.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Giesbock said:


> Yeah this is a super helpful thread!  We’re in the thick of it and I have a question:
> 
> My daughter attended an excellent multiple school ID camp recently and within a moth, got invitedby three different coaches to attend their on-campus camps. One of the invites is Stanford.  Are the schools sending the same invitation to everyone on the multiple school camp list so they can fill quota?  Or, are they actually inviting players they are genuinely interested in?  Thanks.


When considering which camps to possibly attend look at the youth credentials of the women on their team.  Where most of them DA/ECNL players?  On youth national teams?   Then compare your kids credentials and potential to those players.  If your kid matches up then send them.  If not I would focus your attention elsewhere unless you have been directly invited to camp through contact with the coach.  Remember almost all of these camps are just fundraisers for the team.


----------



## outside!

Simisoccerfan said:


> Remember almost all of these camps are just fundraisers for the team.


In our experience, the summer camps were mostly fundraisers. Some of the winter camps seemed more focused on actually finding recruits. Of course the winter camps interfere with HS soccer due to CIF's apparent intent to make sure soccer players do not play in college.


----------



## gotothebushes

Questions with recruiting during this Coronavirus Pandemic - With Sophomores and Juniors, has the recruiting season come to a complete halt? For Sophomores, since school is technically done, how's that working out to contact coaches. How is the recruiting process going to Juniors? Just curious because I only can imagine how difficult this this.


----------



## espola

Good interview with a D1 player --


----------



## Bamboo

Anyone feel like watching and maybe giving some feedback on my son's homemade Highlight video?


----------



## espola

Bamboo said:


> Anyone feel like watching and maybe giving some feedback on my son's homemade Highlight video?


Looks like a natural player.


----------



## Dubs

Bamboo said:


> Anyone feel like watching and maybe giving some feedback on my son's homemade Highlight video?


This is a great highlight video.  Excellent quality, perfect length and well thought out mixture of skills/physicality displayed.  Only suggestion would be to just have one photo for the beginning.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Bamboo said:


> Anyone feel like watching and maybe giving some feedback on my son's homemade Highlight video?


I really like the video but find the music distracting.  I in full disclosure, I hate Imagine Dragons, so use that as a barometer... but if I'm a coach watching video after video... some low volume music in the background would be my preference.


----------



## Emma

Dubs said:


> This is a great highlight video.  Excellent quality, perfect length and well thought out mixture of skills/physicality displayed.  Only suggestion would be to just have one photo for the beginning.





Bamboo said:


> Anyone feel like watching and maybe giving some feedback on my son's homemade Highlight video?


It's a great video bc it makes your son look like a great player.  Well done.

Dub's advice is good regarding picture with name and grad year. 

Outlaw's advice regarding music is very personal.  Remember that you want the coach to feel pumped up and think your kid is very energetic/full of stamina.  A soft musical note may be less annoying but also creates a slow and gentle feeling re a player.  Coaches can always lower volume or put it on mute.

I liked how you showed the weak foot cross and different various movements by your player. 

The ending was good but a picture one side of the screen while displaying the accolades is good.  Also, if you are sending directly to coaches, including phone numbers of references along with the email you provided would be great as different coaches have different preferences.  

Since Coaches may not be able to go to games due to Corona Virus or travel restrictions, I would also include a link of a full game for them to watch.


----------



## Messi>CR7

Emma said:


> It's a great video bc it makes your son look like a great player.  Well done.
> 
> Dub's advice is good regarding picture with name and grad year.
> 
> Outlaw's advice regarding music is very personal.  Remember that you want the coach to feel pumped up and think your kid is very energetic/full of stamina.  A soft musical note may be less annoying but also creates a slow and gentle feeling re a player.  Coaches can always lower volume or put it on mute.
> 
> I liked how you showed the weak foot cross and different various movements by your player.
> 
> The ending was good but a picture one side of the screen while displaying the accolades is good.  Also, if you are sending directly to coaches, including phone numbers of references along with the email you provided would be great as different coaches have different preferences.
> 
> Since Coaches may not be able to go to games due to Corona Virus or travel restrictions, I would also include a link of a full game for them to watch.


Adding my two cents:
Tried and true music for soccer highlights:  Viva La Vida by Coldplay.  The beat of music matches the pace of soccer perfectly.

Have player give commentaries in the background on some of the plays and explain his decision making process.  It makes the video more personal and shows off his soccer IQ.

I thought the video started out strong but it then faded a bit, and I couldn't quite figure out why.  Upon watching it again, I noticed you have highlights taken from the stand (better viewing angle) all in the first half of the video.  Highlights taken from field level view (harder to see) are all in the second half of the video.

Very well done.  Hope it all works out for him.


----------



## Fact

Nice job on the video.  Shows his athleticism and IQ, especially off the ball. The only suggestion I would add is maybe include a few defensive plays.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Bamboo said:


> Anyone feel like watching and maybe giving some feedback on my son's homemade Highlight video?


So many good things in here! I watched on my phone and the text size on the accolades was too small to read. The video displays a nice range of skills and his read on the game, but no defense. Some coaches want to be able to tell who the competition is (who is he playing against in the clips).  Best of luck!


----------



## espola

Beyond the obvious skillful ball handling, goal scoring, and setting up teammates --

Positive:  Defensive ball steal at about 1:06
- left-footed trap at :42
- plays right side in some games (club?) and left side in others (high school?)

Negative:  weak attempt with outside of right foot at :19 where an inside left might have been better
- body language at :45


----------



## gotothebushes

Today is June 15th first day of recruiting opening. What's the normal process for today? Is it just phone calls or will any players actually commit?


----------



## Dubs

gotothebushes said:


> Today is June 15th first day of recruiting opening. What's the normal process for today? Is it just phone calls or will any players actually commit?


Depends on where you're at in the process.


----------



## Ellejustus

Anyone have their dd/ds commit yesterday? Do they call the commit?  If that's the case, T-Mobile ruined any chance she had to get the call.  Oh well, better luck next year


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> Anyone have their dd/ds commit yesterday? Do they call the commit?  If that's the case, T-Mobile ruined any chance she had to get the call.  Oh well, better luck next year


 Normally you get emails setting up a time for a phone call. If you have already went to a schools ID camp or school visit, next step would be an official visit. Of course getting on campus hosting a soccer event is the tricky part given the virus. Did you get any emails?


----------



## dk_b

gotothebushes said:


> Normally you get emails setting up a time for a phone call. If you have already went to a schools ID camp or school visit, next step would be an official visit. Of course getting on campus hosting a soccer event is the tricky part given the virus. Did you get any emails?


Can't do visits for a while (Aug of Jr year?) and I think the NCAA still has a moratorium in place for any in-person contacts (due to Covid; perhaps through the end of this month).  I can't imagine any player committing w/o being on campus to get an insider's view of the facilities + meet with coaches + meet with academic support on campus.  I also can't imagine any recruit committing w/o seeing current players interacting with each other and with the coach - even if she or he were to start in a couple of years, the vibe a coach sets with her or his team is indicative of what a player might find if that coach is still running the program.

Check that . . . I can imagine players doing it b/c I'm guessing a lot of them will feel pressure to commit. But I think that is a major downside in the recent (the ones from 5/1/19) changes to recruiting rules (verbals are permitted b/4 on campus visits are). I won't give specifics but when my own kid was going through the process, it was the spring "season" and we did get to see those interactions and I think they were really valuable. Further, that "insider" view of athletic and academic support may actually be the most significant factor in her ultimate decision and why, even with a coaching change, she never wavered from that decision.


----------



## full90

Heard that there were lots of calls happening and emails to set up calls in the coming week. No commits as kids want to visit and take their time. Schools offered officials when ncaa allows them (November or January is current projection). 
id imagine some commits will happen before then once kids talk to interested coaches and may have some knowledge of campus/program/team life. And for Stanford/unc/etc do kids need to visit? I’m assuming those goats don’t hesitate to take those offers. But who knows. Hopefully this new extended timetable will see kids wait and get lots of info and meet lots of coaches.


----------



## dk_b

full90 said:


> Heard that there were lots of calls happening and emails to set up calls in the coming week. No commits as kids want to visit and take their time. Schools offered officials when ncaa allows them (November or January is current projection).
> id imagine some commits will happen before then once kids talk to interested coaches and may have some knowledge of campus/program/team life. And for Stanford/unc/etc do kids need to visit? I’m assuming those goats don’t hesitate to take those offers. But who knows. Hopefully this new extended timetable will see kids wait and get lots of info and meet lots of coaches.


Those places plus top GKs (since schools don't recruit multiple high-level GKs in the same class).  But if you are being recruited by Stanford, there's a good chance you are hearing from UNC, UCLA, etc. And the vibe at one place may be radically different than another.  I agree that kids may not have to look at the school if they get offers but I think that's sort of a sad situation (I'm not crying in a corner; just saying for discussion purposes) since that means that a kid would be committing based on reputational information alone - that seems wrong (and sort of exploitive a player's immaturity if they are given a short timeline)


----------



## Soccerfan2

Would love to hear details from 2022 player families about how things are going this week!


----------



## Dubs

dk_b said:


> Those places plus top GKs (since schools don't recruit multiple high-level GKs in the same class).  But if you are being recruited by Stanford, there's a good chance you are hearing from UNC, UCLA, etc. And the vibe at one place may be radically different than another.  I agree that kids may not have to look at the school if they get offers but I think that's sort of a sad situation (I'm not crying in a corner; just saying for discussion purposes) since that means that a kid would be committing based on reputational information alone - that seems wrong (and sort of exploitive a player's immaturity if they are given a short timeline)


Agreed.  Kids need to get a feel for the school, vibe and overall culture.  Without that it's a pretty big risk even if it's a big name university.


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> Normally you get emails setting up a time for a phone call. If you have already went to a schools ID camp or school visit, next step would be an official visit. Of course getting on campus hosting a soccer event is the tricky part given the virus. Did you get any emails?


We did it the old fashion way.  I'm serious.  Is that bad?  Did she ruin her chance of a deal?  I was egoistical and full of dreams for her and I thought the phone would ring off the hook yesterday.  Bummer.  I'm setting my sights now on three official visits and then a big time camera day at signing day her senior.  Maybe have three hats on the table and pick one up for the choice? My dd wants to go to college for sure she said.  Does she play soccer in college in two years?  I hope so but you never know.  Good luck to everyone and I hope everyone get's what they want in all this.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

+


Ellejustus said:


> We did it the old fashion way.  I'm serious.  Is that bad?  Did she ruin her chance of a deal?  I was egoistical and full of dreams for her and I thought the phone would ring off the hook yesterday.  Bummer.  I'm setting my sights now on three official visits and then a big time camera day at signing day her senior.  Maybe have three hats on the table and pick one up for the choice? My dd wants to go to college for sure she said.  Does she play soccer in college in two years?  I hope so but you never know.  Good luck to everyone and I hope everyone get's what they want in all this.


You live in Orange County, Spicoli.  Why wouldn't you have already taken your daughter to see every campus between Cal State Northridge and Chula Vista City College?  I get that you want to experience team culture but the rest is pretty easy for you.

And don't be the douchebag that reaches for one hat but grabs another like anybody else on the planet gives a shit where you go.


----------



## Ellejustus

She took a unpaid trip when she was 10 at UCLA and that was a blast.  When she ((me and her)) played for the Natty in Texas in 2017 we checked out SMU.  Nice campus btw.  Plus we got to hear AD from NC share about how Mia became Mia.  She also went to look at Duke a few years ago.  All and all good experiences.


----------



## full90

If you didn’t get calls from schools you’re interested in, call them. Email them. Let them know, or remind them of your interest. Expand your list and contact other schools. Lots of good programs with good coaches and great experiences out there.


----------



## Giesbock

Back in 7th grade, my kid fixed on one particular school and lo-and behold, they hit her inbox with an email yesterday! I think somewhat generic, but definitely to her specifically, asking for list of showcases she’s attending and updated film. 

But all in all, she has a lot to be proud of. A ton of work on the field, and a diligent email campaign started the recruiting on the right foot!


----------



## gotothebushes

Giesbock said:


> Back in 7th grade, my kid fixed on one particular school and lo-and behold, they hit her inbox with an email yesterday! I think somewhat generic, but definitely to her specifically, asking for list of showcases she’s attending and updated film.
> 
> But all in all, she has a lot to be proud of. A ton of work on the field, and a diligent email campaign started the recruiting on the right foot!


That's awesome! one email is better than no email. Good luck on the journey and hope for more emails and phone calls.


----------



## SD_Soccer

Ellejustus said:


> She took a unpaid trip when she was 10 at UCLA and that was a blast.  When she ((me and her)) played for the Natty in Texas in 2017 we checked out SMU.  Nice campus btw.  Plus we got to hear AD from NC share about how Mia became Mia.  She also went to look at Duke a few years ago.  All and all good experiences.
> 
> View attachment 7710


My advice, hope is not a strategy. I would not hope that she hears from schools. Help her reach out to a larger number of schools than she may be interested in (getting positive feedback from schools they may not be all that interested in helps keep them motivated when they don’t hear from or are told a coach is not interested in them— and most have at least some schools that they target that don’t return their interest). 

I’m not saying this to be a jerk, but you spend a lot of time posting here, and posting here won’t help her get recruited. Schools and coaches want players to show interest in them. Sure, some players can sit back and wait and get the outcome they want, but that is not most. If you keep waiting for calls and emails from coaches, you run a risk of her being disappointed. Instead of ending up disappointed and being a victim to the recruiting process, take the reigns with her and own the process. 

It is not that hard, send emails to coaches at schools she is interested in. Ensure her club coach is aligned and will support her if asked by a coach about her fit for the program (where needed, many will contact on players’ behalf). Share graduating year, position(s) played, film, link to her profile, her contact info, gpa, act/sat, etc. There are tons of posts on how to do it. You seem to just want the process to come to you, which may work, but it involves a lot more risk of it not working. If you really want a positive outcome for her (I believe you do), the playbook is there for you to follow. Good luck to her!


----------



## Giesbock

gotothebushes said:


> That's awesome! one email is better than no email. Good luck on the journey and hope for more emails and phone calls.


Thank you!


----------



## Ellejustus

SD_Soccer said:


> My advice, hope is not a strategy. I would not hope that she hears from schools. Help her reach out to a larger number of schools than she may be interested in (getting positive feedback from schools they may not be all that interested in helps keep them motivated when they don’t hear from or are told a coach is not interested in them— and most have at least some schools that they target that don’t return their interest).
> 
> *I’m not saying this to be a jerk, but you spend a lot of time posting here, and posting here won’t help her get recruited. Schools and coaches want players to show interest in them. Sure, some players can sit back and wait and get the outcome they want, but that is not most.* If you keep waiting for calls and emails from coaches, you run a risk of her being disappointed. Instead of ending up disappointed and being a victim to the recruiting process, take the reigns with her and own the process.
> 
> It is not that hard, send emails to coaches at schools she is interested in. Ensure her club coach is aligned and will support her if asked by a coach about her fit for the program (where needed, many will contact on players’ behalf). Share graduating year, position(s) played, film, link to her profile, her contact info, gpa, act/sat, etc. There are tons of posts on how to do it. You seem to just want the process to come to you, which may work, but it involves a lot more risk of it not working. If you really want a positive outcome for her (I believe you do), the playbook is there for you to follow. Good luck to her!


Thanks for the advice and I really do appreciate it. This has not been easy the last three years.  I don;t think your a jerk either.  I love opinions.  I came back to the fabulous socal soccer forum in July of last year with a lot of hot air to blow. My dd still just wants to play high level soccer and that's it. I'm just asking for 2020-2021 ECNL and she will have a blast.  I, as the paying customer have been the one complaining about how she was treated in the old crappy club system.  I won;t go back to how my kid was treated in club bro.  The old system sucked for many.  My dd and the coach will meet up for lunch someday and chat up whatever those two chat about.  I wont be involved, that's for sure.  Time is on our side and it always has. If she plays in college the coach will be most important to her, not the school imo.  Some, it's all about school and thats ok too. The coach can pick all his recruits now for 2022.  No worries.  We knew many many 2022s in 8th grade making the decision.  Guess what? Never-mind. It's about timing for some and for my dd, I believe the right coach and right time will make that time special when it's the right time.  Does that make sense. It's not up to me when she and what she decides, trust me.  I only stopped her from emailing coaches when she was in 8th grade because I thought it was overkill and the young girl wasn't ready.  Hind sight is 20/20 and I think I made the right call finally in soccer.


----------



## dk_b

Some advice (based on own experience and speaking with college coaches I know but whose schools were not in the mix for my kid):  as hard as it is, try to let your kid lead the process.  It's tough when they are young and there will be times when you (i) want to help with an email or (ii) listen in on a call but the coaches want to hear from the player.  When they ask, "so what do you want to study in college?", don't worry if your kid sounds like a 15- or 16-year-old if she/he is a 15- or 16-year-old.  There is no "right" answer - the coaches are just trying to engage the player.  Heck, my daughter made a real blunder (and I nearly jumped through the phone to pull her words back) but the coach laughed because she just did not know any better.  It's kinda like when they watch your kid play - all the parents are worried about mistakes and hopeful a coach saw a goal or a save when, in reality, coaches don't expect perfection (even from the elite players - I mean, Messi makes mistakes) and are watching much more than the obvious successes or "failures". The same thing applies when they talk on the phone or in person - unless your kid says, "I'm not interested in your school", or conveys that, it's ok to sit back and listen.


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## Giesbock

Question for folks that have been down this road before...

if we set aside the super-top YNT 2022 players who I assume would already be getting lots of tangible offers, are coaches focusing first on incoming players for next season?  Then, once that dust settles, they get back to fine tuning their 2022 lists?  Kinda makes sense but I have no real idea.  ‘preciate any input.


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## MMMM

Giesbock said:


> Question for folks that have been down this road before...
> 
> if we set aside the super-top YNT 2022 players who I assume would already be getting lots of tangible offers, are coaches focusing first on incoming players for next season?  Then, once that dust settles, they get back to fine tuning their 2022 lists?  Kinda makes sense but I have no real idea.  ‘preciate any input.


My DD is not a YNTer, and she got a few emails yesterday to set up calls.  the calls are from schools she’s really made a point of getting in front of over the last two years. She has one on the table that’s basically an offer but she’s waiting to see what comes next.  

And i have a question about those initial outreaches, if anyone who’s done this before has insight. If your DD is on a coach’s 12:02 June 15 list, is there some predictability to the scholarship offer that might follow if everything goes right? Is it usually half or full at that point?


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## dk_b

MMMM said:


> My DD is not a YNTer, and she got a few emails yesterday to set up calls.  the calls are from schools she’s really made a point of getting in front of over the last two years. She has one on the table that’s basically an offer but she’s waiting to see what comes next.
> 
> And i have a question about those initial outreaches, if anyone who’s done this before has insight. If your DD is on a coach’s 12:02 June 15 list, is there some predictability to the scholarship offer that might follow if everything goes right? Is it usually half or full at that point?


this is really the first year with these rules - the class of 2021 had it for about 6 weeks as Sophs (rule change May 1, 2019 so until that point, they could be visiting, getting offers, etc) so hard to gauge how similar or different it will be. My kid is 2020 so she was recruited under the old rules.


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## Ellejustus

I wish everyone the best through this new process that also has a virus, a budget crunch, job uncertainty and, just a lot going on.  I'll be honest, I forgot about June 15th at first and then my heart jumped with excitement for the phone to ring.  I waited and waited ((my dd was with her friends)) and no call.  Zipo, nada.  I then took a look at my phone and it was going through convulsions and I then realized that T-mobile was down for 8 hours and she lost her chance again.  No more talking about the past.  @dk_b you guys playing for fall?  How's it looking?


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## dk_b

Ellejustus said:


> I wish everyone the best through this new process that also has a virus, a budget crunch, job uncertainty and, just a lot going on.  I'll be honest, I forgot about June 15th at first and then my heart jumped with excitement for the phone to ring.  I waited and waited ((my dd was with her friends)) and no call.  Zipo, nada.  I then took a look at my phone and it was going through convulsions and I then realized that T-mobile was down for 8 hours and she lost her chance again.  No more talking about the past.  @dk_b you guys playing for fall?  How's it looking?


I don’t want to hijack the thread but, as of now, I expect there to be some season. Travel will be reduced and the number of games will be fewer. That said, if football is bagged - and the NCAA + power 5s + other schools with football programs as a huge budget item will be doing everything to keep that season - all bets are off for fall sports.


----------



## Ellejustus

dk_b said:


> I don’t want to* hijack the thread* but, as of now, I expect there to be some season. Travel will be reduced and the number of games will be fewer. That said, if football is bagged - and the NCAA + power 5s + other schools with football programs as a huge budget item will be doing everything to keep that season - all bets are off for fall sports.


Best hijack ever sir.  TY for the help the last year.  You have been solid and level headed the last 12 months and you can hijack any thread at anytime.


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## Simisoccerfan

Also everyone needs to remember that a Scholarship offer is a negiotation.   If an offer is made the coach is trying to get your kid for the least amount they can get away with.  Advice, don't accept the first offer on the spot.   Make sure your kid stays cool and calm and does not tip that it is her dream school and she will go no matter what.  Now I don't recommend being a dick about it by playing schools off against each other but if it is the school that your kid is going to choose, there is no harm in politely asking if they can make the offer better.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Simisoccerfan said:


> Also everyone needs to remember that a Scholarship offer is a negiotation.   If an offer is made the coach is trying to get your kid for the least amount they can get away with.  Advice, don't accept the first offer on the spot.   Make sure your kid stays cool and calm and does not tip that it is her dream school and she will go no matter what.  Now I don't recommend being a dick about it by playing schools off against each other but if it is the school that your kid is going to choose, there is no harm in politely asking if they can make the offer better.


Let me play devil's advocate.  What about letting the coach know, early in the process, that you aren't totally dependent on a scholarship?  I know your kid ended up at her dream school, and I have no idea what that entire process entailed, but having been through it... do you see value in making your kid be an easier "get" for a coach if he knows early that you won't necessarily cost him anything versus a kid that wants to negotiate?


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## Ellejustus

Simisoccerfan said:


> Also everyone needs to remember that a Scholarship offer is a negiotation.   If an offer is made the coach is trying to get your kid for the least amount they can get away with.  Advice, don't accept the first offer on the spot.   Make sure your kid stays cool and calm and does not tip that it is her dream school and she will go no matter what.  Now I don't recommend being a dick about it by playing schools off against each other but if it is the school that your kid is going to choose, there is no harm in politely asking if they can make the offer better.


For some players, they might not need any scholarship money, just a fair chance to make the squad and fight for playing time.  In fact, since so many have lost jobs this year, their income will be zero or close to that so they will qualify for a very nice financial aid package next year as 2021s.  It's going to be a log jam.  JC might be a good option to stay close to home and actually play in the game and not sit with 5 classes ((if no ball in the fall)) of players and everyone promised so much because we were living in a different time in America and in club soccer the last 4 years or so.  I want soccer to start in the fall and I hope it does.  I know good players and even better students and people right now who only want to go to a school and soccer is the door into the campus. They understand the bench and their happy with that.  That player can and should get a deal right now.  If your player wants to win and be with a healthy winning coach ((wins come in many different shapes at this age)) and the only way to make the right choice is to get to know one another, then be patient and seeks lots of advice from your club soccer coach and if you have HS coach, him or her too.


----------



## dk_b

The Outlaw said:


> Let me play devil's advocate.  What about letting the coach know, early in the process, that you aren't totally dependent on a scholarship?  I know your kid ended up at her dream school, and I have no idea what that entire process entailed, but having been through it... do you see value in making your kid be an easier "get" for a coach if he knows early that you won't necessarily cost him anything versus a kid that wants to negotiate?


You want your kid to be the buyer as much as possible.  For the elite level players, that window is there and it can be short-lived and you want to take advantage as much as possible.  For others, being the "buyer" may be exactly as you say, @The Outlaw - telling the coach that scholarship level is not as important as the slot on the team/admission. But I think there's risk in that, too, b/c in some ways it diminishes the type of player you are (either actual or expectation).

I do agree with @Simisoccerfan - it is a negotiation of sorts and telling a young person to keep her/his cool is important but challenging. Even if the offer is a full ride at the dream school, you need to stress that your kid needs a chance to exhale (contrary to what I wrote upthread, I do think it is appropriate for the parent to step in IF it appears the kid is going to say too much in that moment). It should be your kid's choice but if she's/he's receiving big time offers, you need to step in help your child process what it all means.

I have written many times that I am a fan of the new rules, despite my kid committing under the old rules. She committed early and years later as we prepare to see her off, I think it remains the best school for her in many, many ways. But even though I think it has worked out incredibly well, she would have been better-suited to understand the process a year later. She endured a lot of stress going through it and that took me by surprise - "why are you so stressed? This is really positive? You are going to play D1 soccer! These schools want you! Isn't that incredible?" But it was a big burden and she did feel direct pressure from a finalist (which pissed me off but I understood the "why" behind it and given her playing position, despite being a "buyer" player, it was a coach's way of flipping the script). The most important decision of her life to date and one of the most important decisions she will ever make . . . it was my folly to think it would not be stressful (really myopic).

I'm excited for all of your kids and I hope they have opportunities and make choices that are thrilling. And for the ones who may not have their phones ringing off the hook - just use this time to research and learn. Learning = maturity in my mind and that maturity will serve their ultimate decisions really, really well.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

The Outlaw said:


> Let me play devil's advocate.  What about letting the coach know, early in the process, that you aren't totally dependent on a scholarship?  I know your kid ended up at her dream school, and I have no idea what that entire process entailed, but having been through it... do you see value in making your kid be an easier "get" for a coach if he knows early that you won't necessarily cost him anything versus a kid that wants to negotiate?


College is expensive!  I should know I have three kids in college right now.   I guess if you truly do not need the money being nice and letting the coach know that is a good thing.  But I don't think it ill improve your chance of getting on offer to be on the team.  Either a coach wants your kid or they don't.  I am not advocating negiotiating like you are buying a car or a house.  But there is zero harm in asking if they can make the offer better and then being silent until they answer.   Either they will offer something more or say they don't have more to offer.  Also you don't even attempt to negiotiate until after you have the offer.  So up until that point of the offer the coach doesn't even know how easy you will be to get.


----------



## Ellejustus

dk_b said:


> You want your kid to be the buyer as much as possible.  For the elite level players, that window is there and it can be short-lived and you want to take advantage as much as possible.  For others, being the "buyer" may be exactly as you say, @The Outlaw - telling the coach that scholarship level is not as important as the slot on the team/admission. But I think there's risk in that, too, b/c in some ways it diminishes the type of player you are (either actual or expectation).
> 
> I do agree with @Simisoccerfan - it is a negotiation of sorts and telling a young person to keep her/his cool is important but challenging. Even if the offer is a full ride at the dream school, you need to stress that your kid needs a chance to exhale (contrary to what I wrote upthread, I do think it is appropriate for the parent to step in IF it appears the kid is going to say too much in that moment). It should be your kid's choice but if she's/he's receiving big time offers, you need to step in help your child process what it all means.
> 
> I have written many times that I am a fan of the new rules, despite my kid committing under the old rules. She committed early and years later as we prepare to see her off, I think it remains the best school for her in many, many ways. But even though I think it has worked out incredibly well, she would have been better-suited to understand the process a year later. She endured a lot of stress going through it and that took me by surprise - "why are you so stressed? This is really positive? You are going to play D1 soccer! These schools want you! Isn't that incredible?" But it was a big burden and she did feel direct pressure from a finalist (which pissed me off but I understood the "why" behind it and given her playing position, despite being a "buyer" player, it was a coach's way of flipping the script). The most important decision of her life to date and one of the most important decisions she will ever make . . . it was my folly to think it would not be stressful (really myopic).
> 
> I'm excited for all of your kids and I hope they have opportunities and make choices that are thrilling. And for the ones who may not have their phones ringing off the hook - just use this time to research and learn. Learning = maturity in my mind and that maturity will serve their ultimate decisions really, really well.


Sage!!!


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## SD_Soccer

Simisoccerfan said:


> College is expensive!  I should know I have three kids in college right now.   I guess if you truly do not need the money being nice and letting the coach know that is a good thing.  But I don't think it ill improve your chance of getting on offer to be on the team.  Either a coach wants your kid or they don't.  I am not advocating negiotiating like you are buying a car or a house.  But there is zero harm in asking if they can make the offer better and then being silent until they answer.   Either they will offer something more or say they don't have more to offer.  Also you don't even attempt to negiotiate until after you have the offer.  So up until that point of the offer the coach doesn't even know how easy you will be to get.


Completely agree. We didn’t need my daughter’s scholarship (merit), but we certainly didn’t turn it down. Whether athletically and/or academically, if they earn the money, they should get it. If nothing else, you can use the money saved to travel to more of her games, buy something, or retire early— or give some of the money to her for her saving you money (in addition to free tuition, my daughter gets a pretty good amount of cash each semester that we let her keep). Most D1s have people getting little to no money, so the offer of her not needing scholarship money likely won’t change her chances of being recruited much if at all, but it could cost you money out of your pocket.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

SD_Soccer said:


> Completely agree. We didn’t need my daughter’s scholarship (merit), but we certainly didn’t turn it down. Whether athletically and/or academically, if they earn the money, they should get it. If nothing else, you can use the money saved to travel to more of her games, buy something, or retire early— or give some of the money to her for her saving you money (in addition to free tuition, my daughter gets a pretty good amount of cash each semester that we let her keep). Most D1s have people getting little to no money, so the offer of her not needing scholarship money likely won’t change her chances of being recruited much if at all, but it could cost you money out of your pocket.


Well, that's kind of my point.  If there's little to no money anyway, or at least not enough to make it all that worthwhile, is it not maybe an advantage to let a coach know 1/4 or 1/2 of a scholarship is not a deal breaker?


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## Simisoccerfan

The Outlaw said:


> Well, that's kind of my point.  If there's little to no money anyway, or at least not enough to make it all that worthwhile, is it not maybe an advantage to let a coach know 1/4 or 1/2 of a scholarship is not a deal breaker?


The point is your kid is not the seller in this transaction advertising their price or putting a discount tag on themselves.   They are the buyer.   The coach starts the process and sets the price with their offer.  You then can take it, leave it or see if it can be sweetened.  Even a 1/4 scholarship at an out of state school could add up to $40k over 4 years.


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## Ellejustus

Simisoccerfan said:


> The point is your kid is not the seller in this transaction advertising their price or putting a discount tag on themselves.   They are the buyer.   The coach starts the process and sets the price with their offer.  You then can take it, leave it or see if it can be sweetened.  Even a 1/4 scholarship at an out of state school could add up to $40k over 4 years.


Is that on the phone or is there time to date a little without feeling pressure to decide now or never?  My dd went through the process with some of her highly skilled friends back then and it was what DK said, "Pressure."  80% of the girls never fulfilled their verbal in the old days.  Wake up people and make it better.


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## Simisoccerfan

Ellejustus said:


> Is that on the phone or is there time to date a little without feeling pressure to decide now or never?  My dd went through the process with some of her highly skilled friends back then and it was what DK said, "Pressure."  80% of the girls never fulfilled their verbal in the old days.  Wake up people and make it better.


I would think usually the offer is not made on the first date.


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## Fact

The Outlaw said:


> Let me play devil's advocate.  What about letting the coach know, early in the process, that you aren't totally dependent on a scholarship?  I know your kid ended up at her dream school, and I have no idea what that entire process entailed, but having been through it... do you see value in making your kid be an easier "get" for a coach if he knows early that you won't necessarily cost him anything versus a kid that wants to negotiate?


I disagree with the others to some extent.  If your player is a great student but maybe a little lower on the recruitment list, they may secure attention by a coach that has to also weigh his teams GPA in the equation.  Also, giving kiddos a preferred walk on status is a way to get them into their school of choice.


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## SD_Soccer

Simisoccerfan said:


> The point is your kid is not the seller in this transaction advertising their price or putting a discount tag on themselves.   They are the buyer.   The coach starts the process and sets the price with their offer.  You then can take it, leave it or see if it can be sweetened.  Even a 1/4 scholarship at an out of state school could add up to $40k over 4 years.


Agree. And take the $40k, and consider it is after tax money. So the money you earned to get $40k in your pocket is well over $50k (or the loan your daughter takes our will cost well over $40k to pay it off). Why pass up free money when it will not likely help your daughter’s chances (certainly not by very much) of being recruited by a school?


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## Ellejustus

Simisoccerfan said:


> I would think usually the offer is not made on the first date.


Well, I was a participate looking from the inside and who didn;t let my dd go through the pressure cooker in 8th grade.  I was told many were waiting but they can;t call us.  Jrs feel the pressure as we speak and I'm sure many 8th and 9th graders did too, maybe even more.  Most of the dates were a phone call wishing them a hbday and they they need a decision because #2 and #3 are waiting if so and so is a no.  Again, if your about school first, coach, program and playing time last, go for it on the first date at 12:02pm June 15th.  Anyone go verbal yet?  I think it's best to take those three visits and try and sell each other if it's a right fit.


----------



## gotothebushes

Simisoccerfan said:


> College is expensive!  I should know I have three kids in college right now.   I guess if you truly do not need the money being nice and letting the coach know that is a good thing.  But I don't think it ill improve your chance of getting on offer to be on the team.  Either a coach wants your kid or they don't.  I am not advocating negiotiating like you are buying a car or a house.  But there is zero harm in asking if they can make the offer better and then being silent until they answer.   Either they will offer something more or say they don't have more to offer.  Also you don't even attempt to negiotiate until after you have the offer.  So up until that point of the offer the coach doesn't even know how easy you will be to get.


This is all good stuff. Thanks for sharing your experience.


----------



## gotothebushes

dk_b said:


> Some advice (based on own experience and speaking with college coaches I know but whose schools were not in the mix for my kid):  as hard as it is, try to let your kid lead the process.  It's tough when they are young and there will be times when you (i) want to help with an email or (ii) listen in on a call but the coaches want to hear from the player.  When they ask, "so what do you want to study in college?", don't worry if your kid sounds like a 15- or 16-year-old if she/he is a 15- or 16-year-old.  There is no "right" answer - the coaches are just trying to engage the player.  Heck, my daughter made a real blunder (and I nearly jumped through the phone to pull her words back) but the coach laughed because she just did not know any better.  It's kinda like when they watch your kid play - all the parents are worried about mistakes and hopeful a coach saw a goal or a save when, in reality, coaches don't expect perfection (even from the elite players - I mean, Messi makes mistakes) and are watching much more than the obvious successes or "failures". The same thing applies when they talk on the phone or in person - unless your kid says, "I'm not interested in your school", or conveys that, it's ok to sit back and listen.


 All good stuff and thanks for sharing. Very helpful.


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## Ellejustus

SD_Soccer said:


> Agree. And take the $40k, and consider it is after tax money. So the money you earned to get $40k in your pocket is well over $50k (or the loan your daughter takes our will cost well over $40k to pay it off). Why pass up free money when it will not likely help your daughter’s chances (certainly not by very much) of being recruited by a school?


Or get paid back the $40,000 you paid to play club soccer so you could say hi to the coach.


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## msoccerm

SD_Soccer said:


> . Most D1s have people getting little to no money,


 Is this true?


----------



## shales1002

msoccerm said:


> Is this true?


Revenue is down. What I have learned since June 15th is  that college coaches may be reducing roster sizes not necessarily the size of the scholarships.  Less numbers on teams seems to be what I’m hearing. Smaller recruiting classes. Instead of 8 recruits it now maybe 4.


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## Ellejustus

shales1002 said:


> Revenue is down. What I have learned since June 15th is  that college coaches may be reducing roster sizes not necessarily the size of the scholarships.  Less numbers on teams seems to be what I’m hearing. Smaller recruiting classes. Instead of 8 recruits it now maybe 4.


Thanks for the tip.  Tip line is helpful for all.  So the days of 35+ Unicorns on one team is over?


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## shales1002

Ellejustus said:


> Thanks for the tip.  Tip line is helpful for all.  So the days of 35+ Unicorns on one team is over?


That's what it sounds like.


----------



## Ellejustus

shales1002 said:


> That's what it sounds like.


I know you know your stuff and I super appreciate the tips over the years and honestly, true humility from you.  I always told myself, "Be humble or get humbled."


----------



## kickingandscreaming

shales1002 said:


> Revenue is down. What I have learned since June 15th is  that college coaches may be reducing roster sizes not necessarily the size of the scholarships.  Less numbers on teams seems to be what I’m hearing. Smaller recruiting classes. Instead of 8 recruits it now maybe 4.


When you say "reducing roster sizes not necessarily the size of the scholarship" do mean they will offer fewer scholarships than the 14 they currently have available, but won't reduce the size of the scholarships they do offer? Thanks!


----------



## kickingandscreaming

msoccerm said:


> Is this true?


Yes. For example (an extreme one), each DI school has 14 soccer scholarships and UCLA's incoming class of 2020 has 14 recruits.









						Women's soccer's 14 incoming freshmen to bring depth, national experience to program - Daily Bruin
					

In 2019, the Bruins boasted the second-best recruiting class across America – headlined by forward Mia Fishel whose 14 goals were good for sixth best in the Pac-12.




					dailybruin.com


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## shales1002

kickingandscreaming said:


> When you say "reducing roster sizes not necessarily the size of the scholarship" do mean they will offer fewer scholarships than the 14 they currently have available, but won't reduce the size of the scholarships they do offer? Thanks!


Sounds like fewer roster spots to me.  Perhaps that save money with travel. Can someone clarify if the 14 scholarships are for the team or a particular class??


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## wc_baller

shales1002 said:


> Sounds like fewer roster spots to me.  Perhaps that save money with travel. Can someone clarify if the 14 scholarships are for the team or a particular class??


14 scholarships are the maximum number of scholarships allowed by the NCAA for an entire D1 women's soccer team. However, not every D1 team is fully funded and don't have the full 14 scholarships to give out, and that was even before the COVID situation.


----------



## SD_Soccer

msoccerm said:


> Is this true?


Say a roster is 28 players and the school fully funds 14 scholarships. That means on average, each player gets 1/2 scholarship. There are some players getting full or more than half, so that means there are players getting less. 

As someone said, UCLA just announced 14 recruits. Those 14 plus everyone returning are splitting 14 total scholarships. Math says several likely got little or no athletic money in that group of new recruits. I suspect each coach has a different approach, but if I were coaching I would have a number of high impact players I really want (say roughly 4 per year, or 16 on a roster) that would be at 50% or more. Let’s say they average 65% for 16 players, I am at 10.4 scholarships for those 16 players. So only 3.6 scholarships left for 12 other players (30% on average for them). If the 16 average 75%, now I only have 2 scholarships left for 12 players, or 17%. I would want a really strong 16 and fill in where I can from there. And schools like UCLA get players due to academics, team success, and mom and dad getting to brag that there kid is playing soccer at UCLA (even though they may never get on the field).


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## Ellejustus

shales1002 said:


> Sounds like fewer roster spots to me.  Perhaps that save money with travel. Can someone clarify if the 14 scholarships are for the team or a particular class??


What is an *athletic scholarship* worth and what does and *athletic scholarship* provide?  If i were coach for a day, i would take my time and not sign kids in 8th grade but what do I know.  You have to be flexible and move quick.  You might have a great kid with 4.5 GPA, plus 1500 SAT and all conference human being.  That kid will get 80% academic and some grants and other academic money and maybe 10% athletic.  Then you find a YNT super goat with a 3.6 and zero possible way of academic dough.  So you give that super star 90% athletic and find the other 10% in financial air.  Full ride for both?  10% plus 90% = one of the 14 scholarships is now gone?  So you play that game again and maybe next time with 3 players?  Not easy at all and I would have done way better coaching hoops in college


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Ellejustus said:


> What is an *athletic scholarship* worth and what does and *athletic scholarship* provide?  If i were coach for a day, i would take my time and not sign kids in 8th grade but what do I know.  You have to be flexible and move quick.  You might have a great kid with 4.5 GPA, plus 1500 SAT and all conference human being.  That kid will get 80% academic and some grants and other academic money and maybe 10% athletic.  Then you find a YNT super goat with a 3.6 and zero possible way of academic dough.  So you give that super star 90% athletic and find the other 10% in financial air.  Full ride for both?  10% plus 90% = one of the 14 scholarships is now gone?  So you play that game again and maybe next time with 3 players?  Not easy at all and I would have done way better coaching hoops in college


What I have seen is that the academic and athletic money is completely separate.  Done by different groups with no interaction between the two of them.  This might be different at private colleges.  Plus the athletic scholarship is given well in advance of when you apply for a school.  Academic and financial need money is done during or just after the application process.


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## Simisoccerfan

shales1002 said:


> Sounds like fewer roster spots to me.  Perhaps that save money with travel. Can someone clarify if the 14 scholarships are for the team or a particular class??


Most team don't travel their full roster unless it is a day trip.   So they savings won't be in travel.   Probably more on the equipment and support staff costs for running a bigger team.


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## full90

14 total scholarships. To be split amongst the entire roster. 
Schools will address budget by asking teams to travel fewer players and maybe consider a smaller roster (but at some schools the admin wants a large roster: it helps balance out football numbers and for private like usd, st Mary’s, Pepperdine, more walk ons mean more kids paying $70k to attend which makes everyone happy (except mom and dad). 
reducing scholarship totals will come much later if things hit dire straights. Which may indeed happen but isn’t on the table yet.


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## msoccerm

Thanks for the responses!  

Is it common for public/state universities to offer in-state tuition instead of or in addition to an athletic scholarship?

Also, how common is it to have dorm paid for?


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## Soccerfan2

msoccerm said:


> Thanks for the responses!
> 
> Is it common for public/state universities to offer in-state tuition instead of or in addition to an athletic scholarship?
> 
> Also, how common is it to have dorm paid for?


Yes, in state tuition offer is common, especially for players that aren’t receiving much other scholarship money.


----------



## dk_b

msoccerm said:


> Thanks for the responses!
> 
> Is it common for public/state universities to offer in-state tuition instead of or in addition to an athletic scholarship?
> 
> Also, how common is it to have dorm paid for?


there are different levels and if your kid is getting a verbal, you want to note exactly what the offer is. Whether it is “cost of attendance”, whether it is limited to in state tuition and you’re out of state, etc. I believe the highest level is full ride, cost of attendance (and I think that phrase - cost of attendance - must appear on the NLI when the time comes). This is a good resource:https://www.athleticscholarships.net/cost-of-attendance-spending-money.htm.

in our experience, in the early stages, they speak of percentages or “full ride”. They don’t say “we are offering you a partial”, it is more, “first year is W%, second year is X%, third year is Y% and last year is Z%”. We’d ask some questions to drill down on what all of it meant, what was covered. Those are appropriate questions for the parents to ask even as the kids should drive more of this. I think coaches get that but you have to be know that you can F it up if you “negotiate” too much (though that will also be a function of where your kid falls as a target for the program.)

Not sure if this is now broader than Power 5, but Power 5 guarantees 4-year awards. That is significant because it used to be one year, renewable and programs could choose not to renew (that may still be the case outside of P5). That’s no longer the case so if your kid was due 100-100-100 for her last 3 years and she really is not a college level player, the school still needs to cover the award. (My kids had a babysitter some years ago who played college volleyball (D2 I think but I can’t remember). They tracked every stat in practices in addition to games. Why? It’s how they earned their next year’s awards). If not guaranteed by default, the NLI can be specific in that regard and that’s the binding agreement.


----------



## espola

dk_b said:


> there are different levels and if your kid is getting a verbal, you want to note exactly what the offer is. Whether it is “cost of attendance”, whether it is limited to in state tuition and you’re out of state, etc. I believe the highest level is full ride, cost of attendance (and I think that phrase - cost of attendance - must appear on the NLI when the time comes). This is a good resource:https://www.athleticscholarships.net/cost-of-attendance-spending-money.htm.
> 
> in our experience, in the early stages, they speak of percentages or “full ride”. They don’t say “we are offering you a partial”, it is more, “first year is W%, second year is X%, third year is Y% and last year is Z%”. We’d ask some questions to drill down on what all of it meant, what was covered. Those are appropriate questions for the parents to ask even as the kids should drive more of this. I think coaches get that but you have to be know that you can F it up if you “negotiate” too much (though that will also be a function of where your kid falls as a target for the program.)
> 
> Not sure if this is now broader than Power 5, but Power 5 guarantees 4-year awards. That is significant because it used to be one year, renewable and programs could choose not to renew (that may still be the case outside of P5). That’s no longer the case so if your kid was due 100-100-100 for her last 3 years and she really is not a college level player, the school still needs to cover the award. (My kids had a babysitter some years ago who played college volleyball (D2 I think but I can’t remember). They tracked every stat in practices in addition to games. Why? It’s how they earned their next year’s awards). If not guaranteed by default, the NLI can be specific in that regard and that’s the binding agreement.


We saw responses like "You have to buy in to the XXXX experience (from the lowest offer), "everything but housing" from YYYY, "better than YYYY in a net cost sense" from ZZZZ, and two offers that were just $$$$ values.  We picked the bigger $$$$, which was then increased over the summer when the school raised its tuition cost.


----------



## 310soccer

Great information. With new rules in place I'm sure scholarships will decrease as well. Some things are still confusing to me though.
Some women college programs have 14 scholarships and some say 7/10. Question I have is how do they calculate the value of each scholarship. For example- UCLA is 20k, UCS is 50k, Michigan say is 50k (out of state) and say Yale is 70k. How do they determine the amount of each scholarship since the price is not the same across the board?  Does it all depends on budget? Allowing 14 scholarships -  Instate/out of state both = 1 of 14?  Sounds to me In state they get leverage by giving partial and net costs to family are less. Hope I'm making sense! Just want a little clarity if possible.


----------



## dk_b

310soccer said:


> Great information. With new rules in place I'm sure scholarships will decrease as well. Some things are still confusing to me though.
> Some women college programs have 14 scholarships and some say 7/10. Question I have is how do they calculate the value of each scholarship. For example- UCLA is 20k, UCS is 50k, Michigan say is 50k (out of state) and say Yale is 70k. How do they determine the amount of each scholarship since the price is not the same across the board?  Does it all depends on budget? Allowing 14 scholarships -  Instate/out of state both = 1 of 14?  Sounds to me In state they get leverage by giving partial and net costs to family are less. Hope I'm making sense! Just want a little clarity if possible.


Schools are different.  I know one UC that awards 14 scholarships but ONLY at the in-state amount (most are CA players - is that chicken or egg?).  There's at least one other UC that does not fully-fund (12 scholarships, I think) but not sure whether in-state or simply dependent on where the kid is from (but most of that roster is from CA (maybe all) so not really much of an issue).  How the schools divide up the scholarships is program dependent.  I know one player who had full ride offers from multiple schools but did not with the school she committed to (the fit and opportunity felt right) and the reason (the coaches said) was to keep money available for other recruits (over time, the verbal increased and by the time the player signed the NLI, the award was full/cost of attendance).  But that means, in a given year, there are only 13 other scholarships available for her teammates and, presumably, at least one or a couple of other players have full rides so that means even fewer awards to split among more people.  I'm close enough to the parent to know that the parent has zero clue about the level of the other players' awards (as it should be, in my opinion).  Not sure if any of this breeds resentment or competition or what if the players learn what each of them is on.

When my own kid was going through this, the out of state public schools made it clear to us that their offers were based on out of state tuition but they made it clear b/c we did ask for clarification (it was probably already clear for them).

I once prepared a spreadsheet that was a guess after many conversations - how many fulls, how many 75%, how many halves, etc. - and I wanted to share with a coach friend to see how close or far I was. Of course, I lost the spreadsheet, lost my notes and have not found the energy to do it again. Maybe if/when my younger kids start this process . . .


----------



## SoccerJones

kickingandscreaming said:


> Yes. For example (an extreme one), each DI school has 14 soccer scholarships and UCLA's incoming class of 2020 has 14 recruits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women's soccer's 14 incoming freshmen to bring depth, national experience to program - Daily Bruin
> 
> 
> In 2019, the Bruins boasted the second-best recruiting class across America – headlined by forward Mia Fishel whose 14 goals were good for sixth best in the Pac-12.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dailybruin.com


Very few kids actually get full ride "Athletic" scholarships.  many get 50-70% (higher level recruits) and financial aid (cal/pel grant) to offset the cost.  AND some schools like UCLA have kids that are goin there but not all are on athletic scholarship.


----------



## dk_b

SoccerJones said:


> Very few kids actually get full ride "Athletic" scholarships.  many get 50-70% (higher level recruits) and financial aid (cal/pel grant) to offset the cost.  AND some schools like UCLA have kids that are goin there but not all are on athletic scholarship.


I agree but even the math at 50% and 70% means that those awards are limited.  50% is a great offer.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

msoccerm said:


> Thanks for the responses!
> 
> Is it common for public/state universities to offer in-state tuition instead of or in addition to an athletic scholarship?
> 
> Also, how common is it to have dorm paid for?


The athletic scholarship can be done in whatever manner the coach wants to do it.  If fully funded they have 14 scholarships to offer.  This includes tuition, room, board, books, and fees.   A coach can offer what every percent they want to across the board.  Say 25%, 50%, 65%....   Or they can just offer full tuition.  Or just the price of instate tuition if your out of state and not pay the full cost of tuition.  Or just offer to pay books.   The most common is the percent offer across the board.   If all of the players are in-state they only can spend up to the cost of in-state tuition for tuition.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

310soccer said:


> Great information. With new rules in place I'm sure scholarships will decrease as well. Some things are still confusing to me though.
> Some women college programs have 14 scholarships and some say 7/10. Question I have is how do they calculate the value of each scholarship. For example- UCLA is 20k, UCS is 50k, Michigan say is 50k (out of state) and say Yale is 70k. How do they determine the amount of each scholarship since the price is not the same across the board?  Does it all depends on budget? Allowing 14 scholarships -  Instate/out of state both = 1 of 14?  Sounds to me In state they get leverage by giving partial and net costs to family are less. Hope I'm making sense! Just want a little clarity if possible.


You can download and read the NCAA rule book.  It goes into tremendous detail about scholarships and recruiting.  Basically each person on scholarship is a counter.  If you offer an instate person 50% and and an out of state person 50% this equals 1 scholarship.  Even though the out of state person will be getting more money since their tuition is higher.  

My dd is at a non-power 5 conference school and her school does pay total cost.  She gets the same percentage of the total cost as the percentage she gets on her scholarship.


----------



## Dubs

shales1002 said:


> Revenue is down. What I have learned since June 15th is  that college coaches may be reducing roster sizes not necessarily the size of the scholarships.  Less numbers on teams seems to be what I’m hearing. Smaller recruiting classes. Instead of 8 recruits it now maybe 4.


Are you talking about reducing already committed recruiting classes or recruitment going forward?


----------



## SoccerJones

dk_b said:


> I agree but even the math at 50% and 70% means that those awards are limited.  50% is a great offer.


totally agree!  What a lot of coaches have done (in our experience) was see what we qualified for with financial aid, and then proceeded to make an offer.  So if you qualify for 50% maybe they'll offer a certain percentage.


----------



## SoccerJones

Simisoccerfan said:


> You can download and read the NCAA rule book.  It goes into tremendous detail about scholarships and recruiting.  Basically each person on scholarship is a counter.  If you offer an instate person 50% and and an out of state person 50% this equals 1 scholarship.  Even though the out of state person will be getting more money since their tuition is higher.
> 
> My dd is at a non-power 5 conference school and her school does pay total cost.  She gets the same percentage of the total cost as the percentage she gets on her scholarship.


In sports like volleyball, basketball, football, and women's tennis these are counted by scholarships.  In equivalency sports (everything else) you can technically have 10 kids per 1 scholarship (or however any coach wants to divide one scholarship for a total of 14 (for most D1 schools).  Not sure how it works at D2.  Some schools (like Grand Canyon) pay for EVERYTHING and also can provide certain living costs associated with going to school.  Not everyone plays under the same rules.  lol


----------



## Simisoccerfan

SoccerJones said:


> totally agree!  What a lot of coaches have done (in our experience) was see what we qualified for with financial aid, and then proceeded to make an offer.  So if you qualify for 50% maybe they'll offer a certain percentage.


The FAFSA formula takes into account the equity in your home and other non-retirement assets.   It is not uncommon for the expectation to be that you spend 25% to 30% of your income on your kids education before you even qualify for governmental need-based financial aid.  Public schools don't have alot of other need-based financial aid available.   I have seen out of state public schools offer a discount off their out of state tuition.   Also in public schools your kid is competing against everyone else for the few academic scholarships available.  Private schools can really do whatever they want if their adminstrators are on board.  They can steer money at times where they need it.


----------



## SoccerJones

Simisoccerfan said:


> The FAFSA formula takes into account the equity in your home and other non-retirement assets.   It is not uncommon for the expectation to be that you spend 25% to 30% of your income on your kids education before you even qualify for governmental need-based financial aid.  Public schools don't have alot of other need-based financial aid available.   I have seen out of state public schools offer a discount off their out of state tuition.   Also in public schools your kid is competing against everyone else for the few academic scholarships available.  Private schools can really do whatever they want if their adminstrators are on board.  They can steer money at times where they need it.


true.  you can get some major bucks from Cal Grant and Pell (max is like 18k).  so if you get good grades and lower economic you can get at least 50% paid for, before scholarship.  Not all privates can offer full academic scholarship with athletic.  I know at a  couple WCC schools you have to take one or the other (or a percentage of the "merit" scholarship).  which kind of sucks...


----------



## shales1002

Dubs said:


> Are you talking about reducing already committed recruiting classes or recruitment going forward?


Recruitment going forward.


----------



## Dubs

dk_b said:


> there are different levels and if your kid is getting a verbal, you want to note exactly what the offer is. Whether it is “cost of attendance”, whether it is limited to in state tuition and you’re out of state, etc. I believe the highest level is full ride, cost of attendance (and I think that phrase - cost of attendance - must appear on the NLI when the time comes). This is a good resource:https://www.athleticscholarships.net/cost-of-attendance-spending-money.htm.
> 
> in our experience, in the early stages, they speak of percentages or “full ride”. They don’t say “we are offering you a partial”, it is more, “first year is W%, second year is X%, third year is Y% and last year is Z%”. We’d ask some questions to drill down on what all of it meant, what was covered. Those are appropriate questions for the parents to ask even as the kids should drive more of this. I think coaches get that but you have to be know that you can F it up if you “negotiate” too much (though that will also be a function of where your kid falls as a target for the program.)
> 
> Not sure if this is now broader than Power 5, but Power 5 guarantees 4-year awards. That is significant because it used to be one year, renewable and programs could choose not to renew (that may still be the case outside of P5). That’s no longer the case so if your kid was due 100-100-100 for her last 3 years and she really is not a college level player, the school still needs to cover the award. (My kids had a babysitter some years ago who played college volleyball (D2 I think but I can’t remember). They tracked every stat in practices in addition to games. Why? It’s how they earned their next year’s awards). If not guaranteed by default, the NLI can be specific in that regard and that’s the binding agreement.


All wondering about the process and how things are negotiated and how things breakdown.. look no further than this post.  @dk_b has it on lock.  Those of you going through things right now or on the path and asking the questions, pay attention to every word of what's being said here.


----------



## pooka

Last week was crazy, TMobile being down on Monday made it even worse.  I don't think anyone knew what to expect. My 2022 kiddo was lucky to get a few camps in at her target schools earlier this year, but even counting that It's been 6 months since the coaches had a chance to see them play. The phone calls and emails definitely sounded like first dates lol. @dk_b thanks for the great insight.


----------



## SWHPH

Simisoccerfan said:


> What I have seen is that the academic and athletic money is completely separate.  Done by different groups with no interaction between the two of them.  This might be different at private colleges.  Plus the athletic scholarship is given well in advance of when you apply for a school.  Academic and financial need money is done during or just after the application process.


OK, so this brings up a question that perhaps you can help me answer.  If a student receives academic monies, doesn't that happen after a commitment?  Aren't scholarships discussed before verbally committed?  I'm new to this whole process (daughter is a 2023) and learning a lot just reading.  But this stumped me.  If there is no contact between athletic and academic financial need, how does an offer occur??


----------



## SD_Soccer

SWHPH said:


> OK, so this brings up a question that perhaps you can help me answer.  If a student receives academic monies, doesn't that happen after a commitment?  Aren't scholarships discussed before verbally committed?  I'm new to this whole process (daughter is a 2023) and learning a lot just reading.  But this stumped me.  If there is no contact between athletic and academic financial need, how does an offer occur??


At some schools, based on GPA and test scores, a coach can tell how much academic money a player will receive (some schools have very clear rules for giving merit money- we knew at my daughter’s D3 school). But at many schools the coaches probably won’t know, as Semi said.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Emma said:


> While you are at the airport, flying to see her play, feed us some information about her growth and new life.  This is the most useful thread on this forum and the NWSL would continue it a step further for the GOATS that will make it there or for the younger players striving to get to GOAT status.  It would give everyone a realistic view of what to expect.



Here is an update for you.  They just left to pick up another one of the teams and then they are going to Utah.  First game is on Saturday the 27th.  For most of the games you have to pay for the CBS extra stuff (it's like an extra $7 a month although they have free trials).  In case you hadn't heard one team is out of the tournament because a player or players that went out to a bar infected the team with Covid.  6 players and 4 staff all tested positive and the whole team in in quarantine.  Sydney Leroux is pretty upset about it but is carrying herself with class.  It sucks when some players put themselves ahead of their team (or society).

I don't see how college sports is going to happen this season and the NFL is really going to be hard to pull off too.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

SWHPH said:


> OK, so this brings up a question that perhaps you can help me answer.  If a student receives academic monies, doesn't that happen after a commitment?  Aren't scholarships discussed before verbally committed?  I'm new to this whole process (daughter is a 2023) and learning a lot just reading.  But this stumped me.  If there is no contact between athletic and academic financial need, how does an offer occur??


The offer is typically just an athletic offer.   This is all you typically know when you are verbally accepting an offer.   She accepted the offer in July going into her senior year.  In the fall she still had to apply to the school.  This process also includes applying for financial and academic scholarships.  In February she signed her NLI and scholarship paperwork.  In March she got her acceptance letter to the school.  In April she was awarded an academic scholarship independent of soccer.  In late May she paid her deposit and accepted her spot in the school.  That was our process.


----------



## oh canada

MakeAPlay said:


> Here is an update for you.  They just left to pick up another one of the teams and then they are going to Utah.  First game is on Saturday the 27th.  For most of the games you have to pay for the CBS extra stuff (it's like an extra $7 a month although they have free trials).  In case you hadn't heard one team is out of the tournament because a player or players that went out to a bar infected the team with Covid.  6 players and 4 staff all tested positive and the whole team in in quarantine.  Sydney Leroux is pretty upset about it but is carrying herself with class.  It sucks when some players put themselves ahead of their team (or society).
> 
> I don't see how college sports is going to happen this season and the NFL is really going to be hard to pull off too.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


@MakeAPlay - curious, are the teams flying commercially on public flights or on privately chartered planes?  Or, gasp, bus?


----------



## MakeAPlay

oh canada said:


> @MakeAPlay - curious, are the teams flying commercially on public flights or on privately chartered planes?  Or, gasp, bus?


The team that I follow shared a chartered flight with another team.  I am not sure about the other teams.


----------



## Giesbock

MakeAPlay said:


> The team that I follow shared a chartered flight with another team.  I am not sure about the other teams.


While many of us on this forum talk about OUR dream for our kids, have unrealistic expectations and want our kids to shoot for the moon, you Sir, are livin’ the dream and always a good source of information.  Kudos to you for staying on topic, never diving into the troll traps, rabbit holes and other politicking that goes on here sometimes.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Giesbock said:


> While many of us on this forum talk about OUR dream for our kids, have unrealistic expectations and want our kids to shoot for the moon, you Sir, are livin’ the dream and always a good source of information.  Kudos to you for staying on topic, never diving into the troll traps, rabbit holes and other politicking that goes on here sometimes.


It has been a long road and I have had more than my share of beefs on this forum but as you will find out it goes really fast and you just sort of have to enjoy the time spent with your player.  At the end of the day that is what matter most.  I am really feel fortunate that the end of her club career happened before the GDA vs. ECNL debacle started and I am glad that her last year of college soccer happened before all hell broke loose with Covid.  If this has taught me anything is that we all need to enjoy the ride because you can never tell when a good thing will come to an end.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> It has been a long road and I have had more than my share of beefs on this forum but as you will find out it goes really fast and you just sort of have to enjoy the time spent with your player.  At the end of the day that is what matter most.  I am really feel fortunate that the end of her club career happened before the GDA vs. ECNL debacle started and I am glad that her last year of college soccer happened before all hell broke loose with Covid.  If this has taught me anything is that we all need to enjoy the ride because you can never tell when a good thing will come to an end.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


Maps, now you understand what I was ranting about for over a year.  I saw the battles in CRL and then ECNL and then college and if your player is great she will be invited to local ODP and if she's good there, she can go to AZ and battle other top top ODP players around the country.  My dd hasn;t played a big time game since June of 2017.  GDA really did a number on some of us.  We need to look ahead and make it better for all girls and not be all about the college deal.  Options for all is what I want for the girl players.  Anyway, God speed and I'm so happy for your dd and you to escape all the sh*t my dd had to endure and after talking to many other dads, I see we were not alone.  Peace and TY again for being honest with all of us.  Go Bruins!!!!


----------



## Timan

Could anyone who are familiar with the college recruiting process explain what would be impacts of "NCAA dead period extended through Aug 31."

What I see here are "no in person recruiting", and "no college coaches' visits to watch youth players for recruiting purpose" during the dead period.

My questions are,

- No college showcase till 8/31? What about SurfCup?

- No official college ID camp run by each college till 8/31?

- How about "multi college ID camp" events? I received many e-mails advertising "multi college showcase" in this summer run by commercial organizations. Could college coaches to attend such kind of camps still be approved by NCAA









						DI Council extends recruiting dead period in all sports
					

The Division I Council extended the recruiting dead period in all sports through Aug. 31. The Council met virtually Thursday afternoon.




					www.ncaa.org


----------



## Dubs

Timan said:


> Could anyone who are familiar with the college recruiting process explain what would be impacts of "NCAA dead period extended through Aug 31."
> 
> What I see here are "no in person recruiting", and "no college coaches' visits to watch youth players for recruiting purpose" during the dead period.
> 
> My questions are,
> 
> - No college showcase till 8/31? What about SurfCup?
> 
> - No official college ID camp run by each college till 8/31?
> 
> - How about "multi college ID camp" events? I received many e-mails advertising "multi college showcase" in this summer run by commercial organizations. Could college coaches to attend such kind of camps still be approved by NCAA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DI Council extends recruiting dead period in all sports
> 
> 
> The Division I Council extended the recruiting dead period in all sports through Aug. 31. The Council met virtually Thursday afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ncaa.org


This should kill Surf...at least for the older age groups.  I suppose they could live stream all the games if older teams/clubs are still willing to participate.


----------



## dk_b

Dubs said:


> This should kill Surf...at least for the older age groups.  I suppose they could live stream all the games if older teams/clubs are still willing to participate.


I would think so.  For @Timan - it’s like all is on pause (or remains on pause). Coaches can’t scout players at games, can’t have potential recruits on campus visits and can’t host/participate in ID camps (I’d assume all types because whether single school or multiple schools, hard to separate it from recruiting).


----------



## Kicker4Life

Dubs said:


> This should kill Surf...at least for the older age groups.  I suppose they could live stream all the games if older teams/clubs are still willing to participate.


I think Surf could use this to turn lemons into lemonade For the olders ....If not for recruiting purposes, host teams for a pre-season “tournament” like the “She Believes Cup”.  Even if it’s just local teams.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Timan said:


> Could anyone who are familiar with the college recruiting process explain what would be impacts of "NCAA dead period extended through Aug 31."
> 
> What I see here are "no in person recruiting", and "no college coaches' visits to watch youth players for recruiting purpose" during the dead period.
> 
> My questions are,
> 
> - No college showcase till 8/31? What about SurfCup?
> 
> - No official college ID camp run by each college till 8/31?
> 
> - How about "multi college ID camp" events? I received many e-mails advertising "multi college showcase" in this summer run by commercial organizations. Could college coaches to attend such kind of camps still be approved by NCAA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DI Council extends recruiting dead period in all sports
> 
> 
> The Division I Council extended the recruiting dead period in all sports through Aug. 31. The Council met virtually Thursday afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ncaa.org


You need to remember that this is for ALL college sports.  What they are saying is that they don't want to put coaches in the position of deciding between their health and traveling to meet recruits.  Fall season coaches have bigger issues to focus on like how to have a season and keep everyone healthy.  If I was a parent of a 2021 grad I would be concerned if my kid was not already deep on the path to committing because who knows when they will get a chance to get back out in front of coaches.


----------



## Emma

Dubs said:


> This should kill Surf...at least for the older age groups.  I suppose they could live stream all the games if older teams/clubs are still willing to participate.


I was just thinking  Live Streaming and recorded games for coaches to move between games.  This would also help grandparents and siblings watch games.  They should be able to afford this since they will be saving on the cost of hosting coaches.  All player information can be presented and available digitally.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> I think Surf could use this to turn lemons into lemonade For the olders ....If not for recruiting purposes, host teams for a pre-season “tournament” like the “She Believes Cup”.  Even if it’s just local teams.


Let's go local with all the top ECNL, ECRL, GAL teams and others and go play some soccer games.  "I Believe in America Cup."  Live Stream and college coach can have a cold one and watch the games.


----------



## Copa9

full90 said:


> 14 total scholarships. To be split amongst the entire roster.
> Schools will address budget by asking teams to travel fewer players and maybe consider a smaller roster (but at some schools the admin wants a large roster: it helps balance out football numbers and for private like usd, st Mary’s, Pepperdine, more walk ons mean more kids paying $70k to attend which makes everyone happy (except mom and dad).
> reducing scholarship totals will come much later if things hit dire straights. Which may indeed happen but isn’t on the table yet.


That is why the academic scholarships are so important.  Make sure your player takes challenging classes, studies, works hard and gets the grades.  The higher the academic gpa the better the opportunities.  Ivy's really want to see all grades through the 11th grade.


----------



## Copa9

Soccerfan2 said:


> Yes, in state tuition offer is common, especially for players that aren’t receiving much other scholarship money.


Several schools, Washington State, Arizona State and Oregon State and possibly a couple others offer California students instate tuition and vice versa, plus  these schools are not very academically competitive to get into (compared to UC and privates) but can be impacted by number of applicants.  Some great opportunities for students.


----------



## Jose has returned

Timan said:


> Could anyone who are familiar with the college recruiting process explain what would be impacts of "NCAA dead period extended through Aug 31."
> 
> What I see here are "no in person recruiting", and "no college coaches' visits to watch youth players for recruiting purpose" during the dead period.
> 
> My questions are,
> 
> - No college showcase till 8/31? What about SurfCup?
> 
> - No official college ID camp run by each college till 8/31?
> 
> - How about "multi college ID camp" events? I received many e-mails advertising "multi college showcase" in this summer run by commercial organizations. Could college coaches to attend such kind of camps still be approved by NCAA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DI Council extends recruiting dead period in all sports
> 
> 
> The Division I Council extended the recruiting dead period in all sports through Aug. 31. The Council met virtually Thursday afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ncaa.org


I am wondering if there are schools that are going to go rogue. If they need a player or want to see a player they might go under cover, you know hush-hush agent orange.


----------



## Copa9

Jose has returned said:


> I am wondering if there are schools that are going to go rogue. If they need a player or want to see a player they might go under cover, you know hush-hush agent orange.


I don't think schools will want to risk the possible consequences of NCAA.  Sanctions could really hurt them.


----------



## dk_b

Copa9 said:


> I don't think schools will want to risk the possible consequences of NCAA.  Sanctions could really hurt them.


not for soccer, that’s for sure. Budgets are tightening, too.


----------



## 310soccer

My  friend mentioned an older parent saying Cal, UCLA,USC and mostly Stanford has 14 03s verbally committed. His friends daughters friend who passed on Cal. Her teammates committed at Cal- 0/0/50/50. But is worried now with 14 players committing!

The pitch is they will get you into UCLA and CAL on the cheap offering 0 year 1 makes it easy for them. Cut whoever you don’t want. Doesn’t cost them anything! But for. kids that would never get into CAL or UCLA, getting in his huge. However for places like Stanford and USC commits 15 players and then tell the players they can't get into school. Is recruiting really this ugly? Do they actually recruit players and then de-commit the player because they say a US National team play will be taking there spot? If so that's pretty dishonest which leads to why would a player even choose to commit early? Love to hear peoples thoughts!


----------



## wc_baller

310soccer said:


> My  friend mentioned an older parent saying Cal, UCLA,USC and mostly Stanford has 14 03s verbally committed. His friends daughters friend who passed on Cal. Her teammates committed at Cal- 0/0/50/50. But is worried now with 14 players committing!
> 
> The pitch is they will get you into UCLA and CAL on the cheap offering 0 year 1 makes it easy for them.* Cut whoever you don’t want. Doesn’t cost them anything! *But for. kids that would never get into CAL or UCLA, getting in his huge. However for places like Stanford and USC commits 15 players and then tell the players they can't get into school. Is recruiting really this ugly? Do they actually recruit players and then de-commit the player because they say a US National team play will be taking there spot? If so that's pretty dishonest which leads to why would a player even choose to commit early? Love to hear peoples thoughts!


Pac12 scholarships are guaranteed for 4 years. If a scholarship player is cut, the school is still on the hook for the scholarship to the player.


----------



## 310soccer

wc_baller said:


> Pac12 scholarships are guaranteed for 4 years. If a scholarship player is cut, the school is still on the hook for the scholarship to the player.


Sorry, when I said being cut I meant being 1 of 15 who committed to the school and then on National signing day the school only takes 8 players. Leaving 7 players in the dust to start trying to find another school to accept them. Hope I'm making sense. I thought Pac 12 schlorships are year to year based on performance?


----------



## Giesbock

Since D1 coaches can’t have any in person contact, and there are no games or scrimmages, etc. are they at all interested in training video?  I realize not the same as game video but at least it’s something..?


----------



## Soccerfan2

310soccer said:


> Sorry, when I said being cut I meant being 1 of 15 who committed to the school and then on National signing day the school only takes 8 players. Leaving 7 players in the dust to start trying to find another school to accept them. Hope I'm making sense. I thought Pac 12 schlorships are year to year based on performance?


Power 5 plus Notre Dame guarantee athletic scholarships all 4 years as wc_baller said. They implemented this rule in 2015. They cannot take away athletic money for poor performance.


----------



## espola

wc_baller said:


> Pac12 scholarships are guaranteed for 4 years. If a scholarship player is cut, the school is still on the hook for the scholarship to the player.


You missed the "offering 0 year 1" part.


----------



## wc_baller

310soccer said:


> Sorry, when I said being cut I meant being 1 of 15 who committed to the school and then on National signing day the school only takes 8 players. Leaving 7 players in the dust to start trying to find another school to accept them. Hope I'm making sense. I thought Pac 12 schlorships are year to year based on performance?


The Power 5 conferences, including the Pac12, guarantee all athletic scholarships over 4 years. If any school does what you are proposing, and doesn't honor the commitments they made to that many players on signing day, that will be a program killer. When word gets out, no prospective student/athlete in their their right mind will trust that coach or that program.


----------



## dk_b

wc_baller said:


> The Power 5 conferences, including the Pac12, guarantee all athletic scholarships over 4 years. If any school does what you are proposing, and doesn't honor the commitments they made to that many players on signing day, that will be a program killer. When word gets out, no prospective student/athlete in their their right mind will trust that coach or that program.


Yes - I've made that P5 point a number of times on this board as well.  But there are programs who bump kids prior to NLI day b/c someone better comes along.  If it is an elite academic school, they can use admissions as an excuse but it is tough if the kid getting bumped is a stellar student.  Few schools can get away with that but some can and do.

As for the # of players being recruited - it is something to consider if the goal is to contribute as early and as much as is possible. Take a place like Stanford - he plays sophs/frosh so much that if you are not playing by the end of your soph year, with all the elite players he brings in, you may very well not be playing. The math alone makes it tough and then when you add that a late commit might be someone like Marcario and, well, that person waiting for her big chance as a Jr may just not see it materialize.


----------



## wc_baller

dk_b said:


> Yes - I've made that P5 point a number of times on this board as well.  But there are programs who bump kids prior to NLI day b/c someone better comes along.  If it is an elite academic school, they can use admissions as an excuse but it is tough if the kid getting bumped is a stellar student.  Few schools can get away with that but some can and do.
> 
> As for the # of players being recruited - it is something to consider if the goal is to contribute as early and as much as is possible. Take a place like Stanford - he plays sophs/frosh so much that if you are not playing by the end of your soph year, with all the elite players he brings in, you may very well not be playing. The math alone makes it tough and then when you add that a late commit might be someone like Marcario and, well, that person waiting for her big chance as a Jr may just not see it materialize.


Agree with everything in your post. Schools pulling an offer last minute does occur occasionally. But the scenario that the previous poster was proposing, where a school that has 15 verbal commitments reneges on 7 commitments on signing day, would never happen by any school. That was what I was referring to that would a program killer.


----------



## Dubs

dk_b said:


> Yes - I've made that P5 point a number of times on this board as well.  But there are programs who bump kids prior to NLI day b/c someone better comes along.  If it is an elite academic school, they can use admissions as an excuse but it is tough if the kid getting bumped is a stellar student.  Few schools can get away with that but some can and do.
> 
> As for the # of players being recruited - it is something to consider if the goal is to contribute as early and as much as is possible. Take a place like Stanford - he plays sophs/frosh so much that if you are not playing by the end of your soph year, with all the elite players he brings in, you may very well not be playing. The math alone makes it tough and then when you add that a late commit might be someone like Marcario and, well, that person waiting for her big chance as a Jr may just not see it materialize.


Stanford I believe has decommitted players on more than a few occasions.  I know it's not the norm, but they seem to be an institution that is ok with this pracitce.


----------



## Ellejustus

310soccer said:


> My  friend mentioned an older parent saying Cal, UCLA,USC and mostly Stanford has 14 03s verbally committed. His friends daughters friend who passed on Cal. Her teammates committed at Cal- 0/0/50/50. But is worried now with 14 players committing!
> 
> The pitch is they will get you into UCLA and CAL on the cheap offering 0 year 1 makes it easy for them. Cut whoever you don’t want. Doesn’t cost them anything! But for. kids that would never get into CAL or UCLA, getting in his huge. However for places like Stanford and USC commits 15 players and then tell the players they can't get into school. Is recruiting really this ugly? Do they actually recruit players and then de-commit the player because they say a US National team play will be taking there spot? If so that's pretty dishonest which leads to why would a player even choose to commit early? Love to hear peoples thoughts!


I can only speak on personal experience.  The old rules had 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th graders making verbal commitments on Instagram and that went over to the clubs FB page and all the parents would gush with joy for their goat all without knowing how one will turn out with her grades or playing 3-5 years later.  Many things change for a female in those important growth years that men have no clue about.  I know most girl players have 4.0 or higher GPA and can ball. But not all the ballers can spell and do math at the 4.3 and higher level.  So if you could ball in 8th grade and now your just ok and just ok with grades, I dont think that's a match at Unicorn U like it was a few years ago before puberty starts and before your brain level has actual data ((report card and SAT)) to evaluate.


----------



## dk_b

wc_baller said:


> Agree with everything in your post. Schools pulling an offer last minute does occur occasionally. But the scenario that the previous poster was proposing, where a school that has 15 verbal commitments reneges on 7 commitments on signing day, would never happen by any school. That was what I was referring to that would a program killer.


Yes - and I agree 100%


----------



## Simisoccerfan

wc_baller said:


> The Power 5 conferences, including the Pac12, guarantee all athletic scholarships over 4 years. If any school does what you are proposing, and doesn't honor the commitments they made to that many players on signing day, that will be a program killer. When word gets out, no prospective student/athlete in their their right mind will trust that coach or that program.


If they offer little to no scholarship year 1, then the 4 year guarantee of offering little to nothing has little impact if a player doesn't contribute.  That gives the coach the opportunity to offer more money years 2-4 to players making an impact.  I read the the guarantee does not apply to kids offered no money year 1 with a promise of a backloaded deal.  So it makes sense that coaches in the Power 5 to not always make a big first year offer.


----------



## SWHPH

Soccerfan2 said:


> Power 5 plus Notre Dame guarantee athletic scholarships all 4 years as wc_baller said. They implemented this rule in 2015. They cannot take away athletic money for poor performance.


Isn't Notre Dame part of the P5 (ACC)?
So P5 schools when offering scholarships, it's for all 4 years?  Whether you see time on the field or not?  Did I get that correctly?
How does it differ in other conferences other than the P5??  P5 is ACC, SEC, Big10, Big12, Ivies??


----------



## MacDre

Simisoccerfan said:


> If they offer little to no scholarship year 1, then the 4 year guarantee of offering little to nothing has little impact if a player doesn't contribute.  That gives the coach the opportunity to offer more money years 2-4 to players making an impact.  I read the the guarantee does not apply to kids offered no money year 1 with a promise of a backloaded deal.  So it makes sense that coaches in the Power 5 to not always make a big first year offer.


Are you being nice or optimistic?  At the risk of sounding cynical, looks like college coaches have found a “loop hole” to the Power 5 guarantee.  If I were a Power 5 coach, I’d only offer money to the Macario types and everyone else would have to show and prove their worthiness.  With the demand to play at a Power 5 school, why should a coach take the risk of giving money to a player at the outset instead of waiting a year or two to evaluate the player and minimize financial risk?
Power 5 guarantee seems toothless except in the rarest of circumstances.


----------



## Soccerfan2

SWHPH said:


> Isn't Notre Dame part of the P5 (ACC)?
> So P5 schools when offering scholarships, it's for all 4 years?  Whether you see time on the field or not?  Did I get that correctly?
> How does it differ in other conferences other than the P5??  P5 is ACC, SEC, Big10, Big12, Ivies??


Notre Dame is independent for football so that’s why they get listed separately. P5 is Pac-12, ACC, SEC, Big 10, Big 12.  Ivies do not give athletic scholarships. Other conferences can voluntarily offer 4 year guarantee but the P5+Notre Dame signed a voluntary agreement in 2015 and must offer the guarantee, which means they can’t take away scholarships for athletic reasons. Other posters have correctly stated that the school must offer scholarship in the first year.


----------



## SWHPH

Soccerfan2 said:


> Notre Dame is independent for football so that’s why they get listed separately. P5 is Pac-12, ACC, SEC, Big 10, Big 12.  Ivies do not give athletic scholarships. Other conferences can voluntarily offer 4 year guarantee but the P5+Notre Dame signed a voluntary agreement in 2015 and must offer the guarantee, which means they can’t take away scholarships for athletic reasons. Other posters have correctly stated that the school must offer scholarship in the first year.


Thanks for that explanation re: ND.  I knew bout the ivies just wasn't sure if they were in on that deal or not.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Soccerfan2 said:


> Notre Dame is independent for football so that’s why they get listed separately. P5 is Pac-12, ACC, SEC, Big 10, Big 12.  Ivies do not give athletic scholarships. Other conferences can voluntarily offer 4 year guarantee but the P5+Notre Dame signed a voluntary agreement in 2015 and must offer the guarantee, which means they can’t take away scholarships for athletic reasons. Other posters have correctly stated that the school must offer scholarship in the first year.


It must be offered the first year to be guaranteed then the guarantee is only for the % offered 1st year.


----------



## dk_b

SWHPH said:


> Isn't Notre Dame part of the P5 (ACC)?
> So P5 schools when offering scholarships, it's for all 4 years?  Whether you see time on the field or not?  Did I get that correctly?
> How does it differ in other conferences other than the P5??  P5 is ACC, SEC, Big10, Big12, Ivies??


not ivies but pac 12. For other conferences it’s 1 year renewable. And this is across all sports.


----------



## gotothebushes

Dubs said:


> Stanford I believe has decommitted players on more than a few occasions.  I know it's not the norm, but they seem to be an institution that is ok with this pracitce.


I agree, I have also heard the Power 5 schools decommitted players on more than one occasion leaving these players out on an island trying to find a school last minute. It's ok for Stanford because they get the strongest players in the country. Sad but at the end of the day, it's business.


----------



## full90

Yes schools have commitments from 10 and then end up taking 6. And yes even “4 year scholarship” kids get cut.


----------



## MacDre

FYI:

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: *Nathan Minion* <nminion@fsu.edu>
Date: Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 2:31 PM
Subject: FSU Soccer and Mark Krikorian Soccer Academy Update
To: Nathan Minion <nminion@fsu.edu>

Good Evening,

I hope this email finds you safe and healthy. I wanted to send an update to our subscriber list about our camps here at FSU.

Currently the NCAA is in a dead period which prohibits any camps with prospect age players (2020, 2021,2022, 2023). The dead period was extended last week until August 31st. Our hope is to have ID camps this fall around some of our home games if the NCAA and campus allows us to host them.

For our younger soccer players, campus is still limiting groups on campus, so we will not have any residential or day camps this summer.

We do have a Virtual Tactics camp that will be held July 11th. This is perfect for 6th, 7th, 8th, and rising 9th graders and their parents. Unfortunately, if you have started class for your 9th grade year, you are considered prospect age and unable to attend because of the dead period. Please visit our site for more information and to register https://www.seminolesoccercamps.com/virtualcamp

Everyone here at FSU soccer hopes you have a wonderful summer and we hope to see you again soon!

Nathan


----------



## Zoro

SWHPH said:


> Thanks for that explanation re: ND.  I knew bout the ivies just wasn't sure if they were in on that deal or not.


At least in 2012 when my kid went there it was year to year, and the coach (Waldrum) would play total aid well.  So if the kid was up for need assistance, as ND did not give merit money, he would redirect to others.  But it was at best a single year and verbal on subsequent years. 
Still - the coaches got them in which was our goal.

My DD still plays (until the 'rona) 2X a week and found her best soccer days after leaving the team (playing co-ed). 

How you play the money depends on major, sport, race.


----------



## 310soccer

Zoro said:


> At least in 2012 when my kid went there it was year to year, and the coach (Waldrum) would play total aid well.  So if the kid was up for need assistance, as ND did not give merit money, he would redirect to others.  But it was at best a single year and verbal on subsequent years.
> Still - the coaches got them in which was our goal.
> 
> My DD still plays (until the 'rona) 2X a week and found her best soccer days after leaving the team (playing co-ed).
> 
> How you play the money depends on major, sport, race.


Wait? Come again? Did you say How you play the money depends on the major, sport and RACE? Do get more money because of your race in women's soccer?


----------



## Lionel Hutz

This has been far and away the most informative thread on this entire board -- it has been incredible helpful to me as I have helped my DD navigate this process over the past year. 

I have a question as my DD has been asked to provide game film (not highlights).  Does my DD send them an entire game or halves of multiple games or short 5-10 minute segments?  Any input would be appreciated!


----------



## dk_b

Lionel Hutz said:


> This has been far and away the most informative thread on this entire board -- it has been incredible helpful to me as I have helped my DD navigate this process over the past year.
> 
> I have a question as my DD has been asked to provide game film (not highlights).  Does my DD send them an entire game or halves of multiple games or short 5-10 minute segments?  Any input would be appreciated!


I think it’s ok to ask to clarify - say you can provide any of those (check that, your KID needs to say that). I have heard coaches express preference for full games and halves over highlights. My suggestion (if not comfortable asking the coach) would prob be to provide whichever shows her in frame - so coaches can see on and off the ball - and then offer up the other formats as well.


----------



## Lionel Hutz

dk_b said:


> I think it’s ok to ask to clarify - say you can provide any of those (check that, your KID needs to say that). I have heard coaches express preference for full games and halves over highlights. My suggestion (if not comfortable asking the coach) would prob be to provide whichever shows her in frame - so coaches can see on and off the ball - and then offer up the other formats as well.


Thanks for the input!  I will have her follow up and ask if there is a preference of full game vs halves.


----------



## Zerodenero

MakeAPlay said:


> It has been a long road and I have had more than my share of beefs on this forum but as you will find out it goes really fast and you just sort of have to enjoy the time spent with your player.  At the end of the day that is what matter most.  I am really feel fortunate that the end of her club career happened before the GDA vs. ECNL debacle started and I am glad that her last year of college soccer happened before all hell broke loose with Covid.  If this has taught me anything is that we all need to enjoy the ride because you can never tell when a good thing will come to an end.


True that my friend


----------



## Dubs

Lionel Hutz said:


> Thanks for the input!  I will have her follow up and ask if there is a preference of full game vs halves.
> 
> My DD was asked on numerous occasions to send whole game film.  I believe they like to see a progression.  Also in my DDs case, she plays multiple positions, so they wanted to see that throughout the course of the game.  I'd ust send the whole game.


----------



## SWHPH

Simisoccerfan said:


> The offer is typically just an athletic offer.   This is all you typically know when you are verbally accepting an offer.   She accepted the offer in July going into her senior year.  In the fall she still had to apply to the school.  This process also includes applying for financial and academic scholarships.  In February she signed her NLI and scholarship paperwork.  In March she got her acceptance letter to the school.  In April she was awarded an academic scholarship independent of soccer.  In late May she paid her deposit and accepted her spot in the school.  That was our process.


Thanks so much for taking me through your process.  I understand better now, as I was wondering how you could commit without fully knowing the final cost or acceptance into the program.  Makes more sense now.  Definitely an interesting process for sure.


----------



## 310soccer

Any good tips out there for 03/04 players trying to get recruited? Seems that since most D1 women's soccer players are reporting to school. If that's the case I'm sure they'll start trying soon. If they're training on campus and the season looks like it will start in the Spring of 2021, can't schools invite players to ID Camps?


----------



## MacDre

310soccer said:


> Any good tips out there for 03/04 players trying to get recruited? Seems that since most D1 women's soccer players are reporting to school. If that's the case I'm sure they'll start trying soon. If they're training on campus and the season looks like it will start in the Spring of 2021, can't schools invite players to ID Camps?


This is the most recent information that I have received:
From: *Nathan Minion* <nminion@fsu.edu>
Date: Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 2:31 PM
Subject: FSU Soccer and Mark Krikorian Soccer Academy Update
To: Nathan Minion <nminion@fsu.edu>

Good Evening,

I hope this email finds you safe and healthy. I wanted to send an update to our subscriber list about our camps here at FSU.

Currently the NCAA is in a dead period which prohibits any camps with prospect age players (2020, 2021,2022, 2023). The dead period was extended last week until August 31st. Our hope is to have ID camps this fall around some of our home games if the NCAA and campus allows us to host them.

For our younger soccer players, campus is still limiting groups on campus, so we will not have any residential or day camps this summer.

We do have a Virtual Tactics camp that will be held July 11th. This is perfect for 6th, 7th, 8th, and rising 9th graders and their parents. Unfortunately, if you have started class for your 9th grade year, you are considered prospect age and unable to attend because of the dead period. Please visit our site for more information and to register https://www.seminolesoccercamps.com/virtualcamp

Everyone here at FSU soccer hopes you have a wonderful summer and we hope to see you again soon!

Nathan


----------



## gotothebushes

310soccer said:


> Any good tips out there for 03/04 players trying to get recruited? Seems that since most D1 women's soccer players are reporting to school. If that's the case I'm sure they'll start trying soon. If they're training on campus and the season looks like it will start in the Spring of 2021, can't schools invite players to ID Camps?


Dead period is til August 31. Probably will not be hearing anything for coaches until September.


----------



## wc_baller

gotothebushes said:


> Dead period is til August 31. Probably will not be hearing anything for coaches until September.


During dead period, coaches can't have in-person contact. They can still communicate with recruits and long as it is not in-person - phone, text, and email.


----------



## Kicker4Life

wc_baller said:


> During dead period, coaches can't have in-person contact. They can still communicate with recruits and long as it is not in-person - phone, text, and email.


I know a few of my DD’s 2022 friends and team mates have verbally committed over the past 3 weeks so the Coaches are actively recruiting.


----------



## full90

Kicker4Life said:


> I know a few of my DD’s 2022 friends and team mates have verbally committed over the past 3 weeks so the Coaches are actively recruiting.


They are committing without visiting the school or meeting the coach and team in person?


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> I know a few of my DD’s 2022 friends and team mates have verbally committed over the past 3 weeks so the Coaches are actively recruiting.


I know over 8 so far.  They already visited the campuses and met the coach.  Two year process and all seem really happy


----------



## dk_b

I think the landscape will become clearer between July 31 and Aug 31 as we see the extent to which soccer will be played at the college level in 2020-21 (and even at the youth level).  Recruiting will get much more challenging for coaches if budgets get slashed (expect that, especially if no football or if football but w/o fans).  And planning all of soccer operations is a supreme challenge right now as schools are subject to campus-wide policies and, even with some privates, state-wide orders (in addition to, obviously, conference and NCAA decisions).

I've seen my kid's prospective schedule go from a full suite of games with some great pre-season travel to conference only.  And while I hope they DO play and they permit some fans, my current expectation is that if they play, it will be in spring (that's not special information, just a guess)


----------



## Kicker4Life

full90 said:


> They are committing without visiting the school or meeting the coach and team in person?


Why do you assume that?  Many did their own homework and having a Coach that is a player advocate helping them and the families thru the process is definable a plus.

nothing stopped these girls from attending ID camps, following the program, researching the Coach, staff and talking to other players. 
It is all possible if you put in the effort.


----------



## Soccerfan2

dk_b said:


> I think the landscape will become clearer between July 31 and Aug 31 as we see the extent to which soccer will be played at the college level in 2020-21 (and even at the youth level).  Recruiting will get much more challenging for coaches if budgets get slashed (expect that, especially if no football or if football but w/o fans).  And planning all of soccer operations is a supreme challenge right now as schools are subject to campus-wide policies and, even with some privates, state-wide orders (in addition to, obviously, conference and NCAA decisions).
> 
> I've seen my kid's prospective schedule go from a full suite of games with some great pre-season travel to conference only.  And while I hope they DO play and they permit some fans, my current expectation is that if they play, it will be in spring (that's not special information, just a guess)


Ahhh it sucks to have the season stunted like this. Especially for incoming freshman who were so looking forward to the start. I hope they get to return normally sooner rather than later!


----------



## Simisoccerfan

dk_b said:


> I think the landscape will become clearer between July 31 and Aug 31 as we see the extent to which soccer will be played at the college level in 2020-21 (and even at the youth level).  Recruiting will get much more challenging for coaches if budgets get slashed (expect that, especially if no football or if football but w/o fans).  And planning all of soccer operations is a supreme challenge right now as schools are subject to campus-wide policies and, even with some privates, state-wide orders (in addition to, obviously, conference and NCAA decisions).
> 
> I've seen my kid's prospective schedule go from a full suite of games with some great pre-season travel to conference only.  And while I hope they DO play and they permit some fans, my current expectation is that if they play, it will be in spring (that's not special information, just a guess)


Yep we had your dd’s team against mine in Hawaii. Hard to get a better trip than that.  My dd was also going to play in San Diego on the way.  I don‘t know what if any games now to expect.  Still we leave this Sunday.  I am driving my dd and my other dd across the country. Going to see some National Parks on the way.  She reports to camp 7/27 and she wants her car at school.  My other dd and I will fly back.  7/27 it’s Covid testing and straight into quarantine for about 4 days in a single occupancy room (no leaving) till results are in.  Then two weeks of working out in a Pod of 7.  Then full team. No games till at least Labor Day.  Things should go well till around 8/22 when they move out of the bubble into their regular living environment.  Then who knows what.  At least their is no beep test the first day and they can ease into fitness after the 8 day road trip and 4 days of isolation.


----------



## Sandypk

full90 said:


> They are committing without visiting the school or meeting the coach and team in person?


My dd hasn’t committed yet, but last night she had a Zoom meeting with coaches, 4 recruits, and athletes at the school.  She has already been to the school and knows about the school‘s academic programs.  Right now, Zoom is all she has to get to know the coaches and program, but better than nothing.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Simisoccerfan said:


> Yep we had your dd’s team against mine in Hawaii. Hard to get a better trip than that.  My dd was also going to play in San Diego on the way.  I don‘t know what if any games now to expect.  Still we leave this Sunday.  I am driving my dd and my other dd across the country. Going to see some National Parks on the way.  She reports to camp 7/27 and she wants her car at school.  My other dd and I will fly back.  7/27 it’s Covid testing and straight into quarantine for about 4 days in a single occupancy room (no leaving) till results are in.  Then two weeks of working out in a Pod of 7.  Then full team. No games till at least Labor Day.  Things should go well till around 8/22 when they move out of the bubble into their regular living environment.  Then who knows what.  At least their is no beep test the first day and they can ease into fitness after the 8 day road trip and 4 days of isolation.


Nice trip, Simi! Where is your daughter going to school?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

kickingandscreaming said:


> Nice trip, Simi! Where is your daughter going to school?


James Madison in Virginia.  Her head coach is the former assistant at UCLA.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Simisoccerfan said:


> James Madison in Virginia.  Her head coach is the former assistant at UCLA.


Excellent! That's a great school and pretty area. We used to drive past it regularly in my youth on the way to Nashville. Enjoy the cross country trip. I'm envious.


----------



## beachbum

Simisoccerfan said:


> Yep we had your dd’s team against mine in Hawaii. Hard to get a better trip than that.  My dd was also going to play in San Diego on the way.  I don‘t know what if any games now to expect.  Still we leave this Sunday.  I am driving my dd and my other dd across the country. Going to see some National Parks on the way.  She reports to camp 7/27 and she wants her car at school.  My other dd and I will fly back.  7/27 it’s Covid testing and straight into quarantine for about 4 days in a single occupancy room (no leaving) till results are in.  Then two weeks of working out in a Pod of 7.  Then full team. No games till at least Labor Day.  Things should go well till around 8/22 when they move out of the bubble into their regular living environment.  Then who knows what.  At least their is no beep test the first day and they can ease into fitness after the 8 day road trip and 4 days of isolation.


Dropped my daughter off last week and while we were there it went from full slate to conference only.  Had physical and cleared to train and has been training for a few days.  She has already had Covid so she doesn't really have to worry about catching it again it least for a little while.  Who knows if it will change again before mid September.


----------



## gotothebushes

Question- If you redshirt your first year and is on scholarship, does the school pay for only 4 years? Do you have to come out of your pocket for that 5th year? Justing trying to understand the options here.


----------



## gotothebushes

beachbum said:


> Dropped my daughter off last week and while we were there it went from full slate to conference only.  Had physical and cleared to train and has been training for a few days.  She has already had Covid so she doesn't really have to worry about catching it again it least for a little while.  Who knows if it will change again before mid September.


 Nice! Beachbum! Where is your daughter going to school?


----------



## Soccerfan2

gotothebushes said:


> Question- If you redshirt your first year and is on scholarship, does the school pay for only 4 years? Do you have to come out of your pocket for that 5th year? Justing trying to understand the options here.


It depends on the school and the situation including budget, incoming players, etc. They can and sometimes do cover the 5th year. Sometimes not.


----------



## espola

Soccerfan2 said:


> It depends on the school and the situation including budget, incoming players, etc. They can and sometimes do cover the 5th year. Sometimes not.


The school is expected to satisfy NCAA graduation rate requirements, so it is in their interest to help the student-athletes succeed academically.  They can give more than 5 years of full or partial athletic scholarship if there is a redshirt year to begin and an injury redshirt year later.  The school can also help athletes who have completed their eligibility but not yet graduated by giving them part-time on-campus jobs such as assistant coaches, alumni relations staff, etc.









						Graduation Rates
					

Graduation Rates




					www.ncaa.org


----------



## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> James Madison in Virginia.  Her head coach is the former assistant at UCLA.


Former Associate Head Coach and Recruiting Coordinator.  He has worked with AC at UCLA for 4 years and recruited almost every player on the roster and was with her previous to that at Central Florida.  The guy is as honest as they come and is definitely a players coach.

Continued good fortune for you and your player!


----------



## gotothebushes

espola said:


> The school is expected to satisfy NCAA graduation rate requirements, so it is in their interest to help the student-athletes succeed academically.  They can give more than 5 years of full or partial athletic scholarship if there is a redshirt year to begin and an injury redshirt year later.  The school can also help athletes who have completed their eligibility but not yet graduated by giving them part-time on-campus jobs such as assistant coaches, alumni relations staff, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Graduation Rates
> 
> 
> Graduation Rates
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ncaa.org





espola said:


> The school is expected to satisfy NCAA graduation rate requirements, so it is in their interest to help the student-athletes succeed academically.  They can give more than 5 years of full or partial athletic scholarship if there is a redshirt year to begin and an injury redshirt year later.  The school can also help athletes who have completed their eligibility but not yet graduated by giving them part-time on-campus jobs such as assistant coaches, alumni relations staff, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Graduation Rates
> 
> 
> Graduation Rates
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ncaa.org


Also if there's no college soccer this year, it will have a ripple affect. At least 50% less for 2022 and 2023 in scholarships.


----------



## espola

gotothebushes said:


> Also if there's no college soccer this year, it will have a ripple affect. At least 50% less for 2022 and 2023 in scholarships.


Unless some players graduate.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

gotothebushes said:


> Also if there's no college soccer this year, it will have a ripple affect. At least 50% less for 2022 and 2023 in scholarships.


I think your comment is a just a stab in the dark.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

gotothebushes said:


> Also if there's no college soccer this year, it will have a ripple affect. At least 50% less for 2022 and 2023 in scholarships.


The NCAA requires schools to offer at least 14 sports (7 men, 7 women or 6 men, 8 women) to be D1.   Title IX in theory (though many violate) requires that scholarships be provided to men and women in the ratio of their student enrollment.  So it is difficult to cut women's soccer scholarships without also cutting men's football scholarships.


----------



## outside!

Simisoccerfan said:


> Title IX in theory (though many violate) requires that scholarships be provided to men and women in the ratio of their student enrollment.


Almost no schools meet this requirement.


----------



## Fact

MakeAPlay said:


> Former Associate Head Coach and Recruiting Coordinator.  He has worked with AC at UCLA for 4 years and recruited almost every player on the roster and was with her previous to that at Central Florida.  The guy is as honest as they come and is definitely a players coach.
> 
> Continued good fortune for you and your player!


Definitely an honest guy....oh wait wasn't he recruiting for UCLA when Lauren Isackson was recruited and we know what a great player she turned out to be.


----------



## Zoro

310soccer said:


> Wait? Come again? Did you say How you play the money depends on the major, sport and RACE? Do get more money because of your race in women's soccer?


Yes.
You can get more money because of RACE, therefore reducing how much you need from the sport. 
Below was also what my daughter majored in, that exact year,  and was not qualified to receive that money, so about $250->$300K difference in money based on race (5 year program).   Coaches are very aware of the other money students get.


----------



## pokergod

Simisoccerfan said:


> The NCAA requires schools to offer at least 14 sports (7 men, 7 women or 6 men, 8 women) to be D1.   Title IX in theory (though many violate) requires that scholarships be provided to men and women in the ratio of their student enrollment.  So it is difficult to cut women's soccer scholarships without also cutting men's football scholarships.


The major conferences asked for a blanket exception to this rule due to covid.  The NCAA denied the blanket exception, but said it will analyze a request on a case by case basis.  With football being gutted, you can bet every school is applying to the NCAA for waivers from this rule.


----------



## espola

Zoro said:


> Yes.
> You can get more money because of RACE, therefore reducing how much you need from the sport.
> Below was also what my daughter majored in, that exact year,  and was not qualified to receive that money, so about $250->$300K difference in money based on race (5 year program).   Coaches are very aware of the other money students get.
> 
> 
> View attachment 8187


Dartmouth still has scholarships for Native Americans (the school was founded for educating the inhabitants up in what was then the wilderness) and any student graduating from high school while a resident of Wheelock, Vermont (they have to attend school somewhere else - it's pretty much back to wilderness now) is guaranteed admission and a full ride.  The town of Wheelock was granted to Dartmouth in its early cash-starved years, and Dartmouth agreed to a payback - 9 scholars so far in about 200 years.


----------



## Zoro

espola said:


> Dartmouth still has scholarships for Native Americans (the school was founded for educating the inhabitants up in what was then the wilderness) and any student graduating from high school while a resident of Wheelock, Vermont (they have to attend school somewhere else - it's pretty much back to wilderness now) is guaranteed admission and a full ride.  The town of Wheelock was granted to Dartmouth in its early cash-starved years, and Dartmouth agreed to a payback - 9 scholars so far in about 200 years.


That was a final 2 of the schools my DD was considering.  Beautiful area.  NO merit scholarships, as in all the Ivy's.  Just "needs" based and the other stuff.


----------



## espola

Zoro said:


> That was a final 2 of the schools my DD was considering.  Beautiful area.  NO merit scholarships, as in all the Ivy's.  Just "needs" based and the other stuff.


They don't have merit scholarships, but they do have merit admissions, for the most part.


----------



## Zoro

espola said:


> They don't have merit scholarships, but they do have merit admissions, for the most part.


I think all DI schools are like that.  I shopped my son for rowing and the Ivy's were happy to talk.  In the end, he didn't want to row and ended up at the USAFA basically for being fit and smart enough.   At the time my DD selected on major, not money, not soccer, but soccer got her in.  

BTW - if you've got a kid who is wanting to serve, smart enough, and tough (athletics more important than grades) - the service academies are great.  @21 he's a 2nd Lt, bought a house and has a job the next 10-20 years.


----------



## MacDre

Zoro said:


> I think all DI schools are like that.  I shopped my son for rowing and the Ivy's were happy to talk.  In the end, he didn't want to row and ended up at the USAFA basically for being fit and smart enough.   At the time my DD selected on major, not money, not soccer, but soccer got her in.
> 
> BTW - if you've got a kid who is wanting to serve, smart enough, and tough (athletics more important than grades) - the service academies are great.  @21 he's a 2nd Lt, bought a house and has a job the next 10-20 years.


Good advice.  Those open to service academies can also look into ROTC at most universities too.


----------



## Zoro

MacDre said:


> Good advice.  Those open to service academies can also look into ROTC at most universities too.


True, but ROTC is a bit like junior college.  It all works.   I also comes and goes/can be taken away.   I would not advise ROTC over the actual service academies except for the researched focused.  Those are not, should not be DI athletes .


----------



## ToonArmy

How many years of service do you have to complete once your 4 years of ncaa eligibility are over when you play sports at a service academy?


----------



## Messi>CR7

ToonArmy said:


> How many years of service do you have to complete once your 4 years of ncaa eligibility are over when you play sports at a service academy?


5 years active and 3 years in reserve for Air Force Academy graduate.  I think other service academies are similar.

Not sure if playing sports make any difference.  If I recall correctly, David Robinson was allowed to serve only two years because he was deemed too tall to have a career with Navy.


----------



## MacDre

Zoro said:


> True, but ROTC is a bit like junior college.  It all works.   I also comes and goes/can be taken away.   I would not advise ROTC over the actual service academies except for the researched focused.  Those are not, should not be DI athletes .


Service Academies (SA) are great options IF you can get in.  Your kid is a “rockstar.”  Many will not be successful in gaining admission into a SA and can take ROTC at their university as an alternative route to SA.


----------



## Zoro

ToonArmy said:


> How many years of service do you have to complete once your 4 years of ncaa eligibility are over when you play sports at a service academy?


Sports have nothing to do with it.  You have a mandatory job for at least 5 years depending one what job you choose.  It can be 10 years.  
The graduate is an officer getting paid $60K+.  That and putting their life on the line if needed.   So again, if they are the type willing to serve, great deal.  If not, wrong direction.


----------



## Zoro

MacDre said:


> Service Academies (SA) are great options IF you can get in.  Your kid is a “rockstar.”  Many will not be successful in gaining admission into a SA and can take ROTC at their university as an alternative route to SA.


IMO most elite female soccer players are a shoe-in.  As are male cyclists.  The physical demands for females were not at my DD's soccer level and way below my son's level.  But sure you need to have good grades and test scores and tell a story and really really be an athlete.  The ROTC thing is not a good option for the soccer player.  If you are a player, do the DI athletic thing.  The ROTC is not a sports path.  If you are an academic - like 95+ percentile then maybe ROTC and just do school and more school.   I think the kid is better off going in the front door, or doing sports.


----------



## Soccer43

Zoro said:


> True, but ROTC is a bit like junior college.  It all works.   I also comes and goes/can be taken away.   I would not advise ROTC over the actual service academies except for the researched focused.  Those are not, should not be DI athletes .


I am not sure what you mean "ROTC is a bit like junior college"?  They have ROTC at all levels of colleges (UCLA, etc) and it can be a great option.  It is a big commitment and a lot of work.  You can get a full scholarship where you might not get money like that for soccer and it can be at whatever college you are applying to.   If you are at a D1 school it would be challenging to do both ROTC and soccer because of the time commitment for each.  You do have to complete the years of service after graduating college but it can open doors for a lot of career paths and opportunities, many benefits as a veteran


----------



## Copa9

espola said:


> Unless some players graduate.


By the time the young women are 22 and ready to graduate and move on, many of them will, unless they are in the pool to turn pro. They can also use their one year of eligibility to help them get into a grad program and play one year for the new school.


----------



## Zoro

Soccer43 said:


> I am not sure what you mean "ROTC is a bit like junior college"?  They have ROTC at all levels of colleges (UCLA, etc) and it can be a great option.  It is a big commitment and a lot of work.  You can get a full scholarship where you might not get money like that for soccer and it can be at whatever college you are applying to.   If you are at a D1 school it would be challenging to do both ROTC and soccer because of the time commitment for each.  You do have to complete the years of service after graduating college but it can open doors for a lot of career paths and opportunities, many benefits as a veteran


Junior college works, you get a degree.  ROTC works too, you get a degree and end up in the military.  You probably do not play DI soccer on ROTC.   The kids from the service academys seem to get promoted faster.  A particular ROTC officer I know would complain about being just as smart, but not getting the treatment that the academy kids did.  He was just as smart, but did not get promoted as quickly.  Maybe because of his personality, maybe because the others came out of the US Naval Academy, West Point or USAFA.  They just got more creds, except for the top academic majors where ROTC provided ways to do research at top universities.  

This scope here is kids that play soccer.  If you want to be a ROTC and research scientist and play competitive DI that is just not going to happen at a competitive school.   You CAN be in the service academy and play soccer.  Your game/team will suffer a bit as they generally don't care that that marching might affect your game, but you certainly can do both.  

If you are after a degree where you need to be at a school that offers ROTC - do it, and forget soccer.
If you want to play soccer, there is not much at a DI university that is valuable for ROTC and allows you to play soccer.  Classes may will conflict with practice etc.  It is just super hard to do both.

So - if you want to play soccer AND be in the military - just go to a service academy


----------



## Zoro

ToonArmy said:


> How many years of service do you have to complete once your 4 years of ncaa eligibility are over when you play sports at a service academy?


For US Air Force Academy (Navy is similar, I don't know West Point, but I'd expect also similar)
5, 8 or 10 - depends.
Min is 5, that is typically an office job.
8 I think for remote piloted aircraft (drones).  They are licensed pilots.
10 for pilot from when you get out of pilot training.  Very many stay longer.
10 for certain post graduate degrees but some time can be served concurrently. 
A pilot that owes 10 who gets a Masters or Phd does not now owe 20 to the best of my understanding. 
It also depends what that major is.  A graduate degree helps promotion.  That means more money sooner, and more when retired.


----------



## gotothebushes

Copa9 said:


> By the time the young women are 22 and ready to graduate and move on, many of them will, unless they are in the pool to turn pro. They can also use their one year of eligibility to help them get into a grad program and play one year for the new school.


 I know of 3/4 players who will use there one year of eligibility and go to grad school and will play there last year at there new school. Smart idea!


----------



## Ellejustus

Anyone on here have the scoop on the top girls soccer programs in the SEC? ACC?  Big 12?  How about up and coming with potential?  Best Possession?  How about Media and or Communications degree schools?  Going to see some long lost friends over in the South East part of da country.  PM ime if you want.  Thx


----------



## Soccer43

I saw this thread pop up with new posts and just wondered what advice there is these days to start the process - seems like all the traditional info is now out the window - so glad we are past that step


----------



## dk_b

Soccer43 said:


> I saw this thread pop up with new posts and just wondered what advice there is these days to start the process - seems like all the traditional info is now out the window - so glad we are past that step


indeed. We knew it would be different for our younger daughters but I will admit that I had not factored in, “global pandemic disrupting youth sports for 15 months” (or however long it will be), as one of the differentiating variables.


----------



## EOTL

dk_b said:


> indeed. We knew it would be different for our younger daughters but I will admit that I had not factored in, “global pandemic disrupting youth sports for 15 months” (or however long it will be), as one of the differentiating variables.


Some people have given me grief for saying that playing for the handful of queen maker coaches is the best and safest way to get recruited. If you did not heed it and your kid is an uncommitted junior or senior, you may be in real trouble, as Covid-19 has closed the door on the narrow path of playing showcases, getting seen there and emailing a lot of awesome recent video. A so so player at Blues before this happened is probably in much better shape right now than a much better player at the small club who hadn’t been found yet. Oh, and now is not the time to whine about fees if you’re one of the fortunate ones at a club with a coach who only needs to make a phone call on your kid’s behalf.

If it’s that important, you might consider moving to TX or GA, hopefully getting on one of their teams there, and taking your chances with Covid-19. Or get uber aggressive with the email and phone calls, and probably end up still having to try walking where you can get in academically and isn’t a soccer power. Even walking on may be rough at a lot of schools next fall if the season doesn’t move to spring, however, because a lot of seniors will come back or play as grad transfers, leaving a lot of teams with 5 years worth of players on the team. Also don’t discount juco until roster sizes return to normal.

One more “I told you so”. I was also critical of the NCAA changing the recruiting rules so that kids could not have contact until end of sophomore year or visit until junior year, as it left kids with a very compressed time frame to educate themselves and make commitment decisions. A lot of people are probably really wishing their sophomore and junior daughters could have met with coaches as freshman and possibly committed much earlier.

Seriously, when I say it’s probably gonna snow in CO in April or GDA will fail, maybe ya’ll should listen.


----------



## dk_b

EOTL said:


> Some people have given me grief for saying that playing for the handful of queen maker coaches is the best and safest way to get recruited. If you did not heed it and your kid is an uncommitted junior or senior, you may be in real trouble, as Covid-19 has closed the door on the narrow path of playing showcases, getting seen there and emailing a lot of awesome recent video. A so so player at Blues before this happened is probably in much better shape right now than a much better player at the small club who hadn’t been found yet. Oh, and now is not the time to whine about fees if you’re one of the fortunate ones at a club with a coach who only needs to make a phone call on your kid’s behalf.
> 
> If it’s that important, you might consider moving to TX or GA, hopefully getting on one of their teams there, and taking your chances with Covid-19. Or get uber aggressive with the email and phone calls, and probably end up still having to try walking where you can get in academically and isn’t a soccer power. Even walking on may be rough at a lot of schools next fall if the season doesn’t move to spring, however, because a lot of seniors will come back or play as grad transfers, leaving a lot of teams with 5 years worth of players on the team. Also don’t discount juco until roster sizes return to normal.
> 
> One more “I told you so”. I was also critical of the NCAA changing the recruiting rules so that kids could not have contact until end of sophomore year or visit until junior year, as it left kids with a very compressed time frame to educate themselves and make commitment decisions. A lot of people are probably really wishing their sophomore and junior daughters could have met with coaches as freshman and possibly committed much earlier.
> 
> Seriously, when I say it’s probably gonna snow in CO in April or GDA will fail, maybe ya’ll should listen.


Was that directed at me?


----------



## momofgk

Soccer43 said:


> I saw this thread pop up with new posts and just wondered what advice there is these days to start the process - seems like all the traditional info is now out the window - so glad we are past that step


My daughter is a 2021 who was out last end of sophomore season and most of last fall with ACL. She returned in December and was able to play a couple games in National League.  Spring was supposed to be her time.  She had talked to quite a few schools prior to her ACL, then things went pretty quiet.  She has been emailing and sending training film since she doesn't have recent game footage to quite a few schools and actually has gotten a great response.  A few serious contenders.  Unfortunately, not able to go visit any in person right now.  The coaches have set up zoom calls with her, had her do a zoom call with a current player at one school and the coaching staff also did a zoom call with us.  

So current advice, try to get training film, send out those emails, make sure you provide your coach's contact info in the email, many have reached out to her coach.  Follow up with a phone call to the schools you really are interested in.  Her coach and gk coach have also been helpful in providing advice and speaking to college coaches for her.  It is a tough spot.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> One more “I told you so”. I was also critical of the NCAA changing the recruiting rules so that kids could not have contact until end of sophomore year or visit until junior year, as it left kids with a very compressed time frame to educate themselves and make commitment decisions. A lot of people are probably really wishing their sophomore and junior daughters could have met with coaches as freshman and possibly committed much earlier.
> 
> Seriously, when I say it’s probably gonna snow in CO in April or GDA will fail, maybe ya’ll should listen.


I will say you have *some *things right EOTL, but many things you are so wrong you will regret it some day. Pride before the fall........ The girls were being abused with the old rules and by so many fake Docs and abusive coaches who yell and scream and manipulate young teenage females.  True asshole men coaches treating young high school females like commodities to trade in the college stock market.  One girls soccer coach at Yale made over $1,000,000 in Bribes to make a few extra bucks.  I have so much more I will sit on it until the right time.  GDA was the one thing you got right plus HS Soccer.  A true Blues boy you are and that's ok too.  I am so stoked I told my dd NOT to send emails to coaches in 7th and 8th grade all so she could get a fake happy bday phone call and then verbal.  80% changed their mind in the old way that is being wiped cleaned with Bleach.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> Some people have given me grief for saying that playing for the handful of queen maker coaches is the best and safest way to get recruited. If you did not heed it and your kid is an uncommitted junior or senior, you may be in real trouble, as Covid-19 has closed the door on the narrow path of playing showcases, getting seen there and emailing a lot of awesome recent video. A so so player at Blues before this happened is probably in much better shape right now than a much better player at the small club who hadn’t been found yet. Oh, and now is not the time to whine about fees if you’re one of the fortunate ones at a club with a coach who only needs to make a phone call on your kid’s behalf.
> 
> If it’s that important, you might consider moving to TX or GA, hopefully getting on one of their teams there, and taking your chances with Covid-19. Or get uber aggressive with the email and phone calls, and probably end up still having to try walking where you can get in academically and isn’t a soccer power. Even walking on may be rough at a lot of schools next fall if the season doesn’t move to spring, however, because a lot of seniors will come back or play as grad transfers, leaving a lot of teams with 5 years worth of players on the team. Also don’t discount juco until roster sizes return to normal.
> 
> One more “I told you so”. I was also critical of the NCAA changing the recruiting rules so that kids could not have contact until end of sophomore year or visit until junior year, as it left kids with a very compressed time frame to educate themselves and make commitment decisions. A lot of people are probably really wishing their sophomore and junior daughters could have met with coaches as freshman and possibly committed much earlier.
> 
> Seriously, when I say it’s probably gonna snow in CO in April or GDA will fail, maybe ya’ll should listen.





			http://topdrawersoccer.com:8080/usc-head-coach-ali-khosroshahin-too-young-to-recruit_vid3699
		


This former coach said this when 9th grade was too young.  Keep in mind, in 2017 it went cray cray and 6th grader verbal to NC and then my dd and all her friends were getting told to email in 7th and 8th to "practice" with recruiting.  BS, it was getting the top players to communicate with the D1 coaches so they could call the goat and wish them a fake happy bday and then they commit without meeting the team, the school and the coach.  Most young girls in 8th grade are not the woman they will be at 18.  Their lies the problem EOTL.  This speed dating recruiting was damaging to many female players and it had to stop.  Plus middleman broker dude needed to get out of the way too.  Let the girls take their time and visit the school, the coach and the team is the new way if you want to continue playing past HS.


----------



## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> I am so stoked I told my dd NOT to send emails to coaches in 7th and 8th grade all so she could get a fake happy bday phone call and then verbal.  80% changed their mind in the old way that is being wiped cleaned with Bleach.





Ellejustus said:


> http://topdrawersoccer.com:8080/usc-head-coach-ali-khosroshahin-too-young-to-recruit_vid3699
> 
> 
> 
> This former coach said this when 9th grade was too young.  Keep in mind, in 2017 it went cray cray and 6th grader verbal to NC and then my dd and all her friends were getting told to email in 7th and 8th to "practice" with recruiting.  BS, it was getting the top players to communicate with the D1 coaches so they could call the goat and wish them a fake happy bday and then they commit without meeting the team, the school and the coach.  Most young girls in 8th grade are not the woman they will be at 18.  Their lies the problem EOTL.  This speed dating recruiting was damaging to many female players and it had to stop.  Plus middleman broker dude needed to get out of the way too.  Let the girls take their time and visit the school, the coach and the team is the new way if you want to continue playing past HS.


Listen to what you’re saying. You are upset about people wishing other kids happy birthday, and are glad no one wishes your child happy birthday. You are really messed up in the head.  And of course you are wrong about that anyway since coaches could not initiate contact under the old rules.

You’re also claiming that kids commit without meeting the team, the school and the coach, although that only happens under the new rules. Under the old rules, you could do all of that whenever you wanted, but now you can’t do it until junior year, or now at all due to Covid-19. Even in the absence of Covid-19, the new rules give you only a fee weeks between the time colleges start making offers and you need to accept before they give away your spot.

Oh, and dumbf**k, under the old rules everything was verbal until the same time frames as the new ones, so you could change your mind at any time if your daughter had a change of heart or priorities.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> *You are really messed up in the head.*
> 
> *Oh, and dumbf**k*, *under the old rules everything was verbal* until the same time frames as the new ones,* so you could change your mind *at any time if your daughter had a change of heart or priorities.


Thank you EOTL.  I know you so powerful and one big no it all. 
Why would I change my mind? 
80% of the dear daughters changed their mind, that's why the old rules were changed in the first place.  It got out of hand smarty.  I took my little goat to a few colleges in 6th grade and even took in a few Pac 12 games.
Do you know how many girls were injured the last 10 years?  Injured is a broad word too, so let me see your guess dude........


----------



## Giesbock

My 2 cents re. the new recruiting landscape: 

Put on N-95 mask and fly to multiple-school ID camps. If you choose carefully with multiple schools that your kid is interested in, and schools where your kid has a realistic chance of getting attention of some coaches, they can be a good jumping off point. 

Player needs to want it for themselves, email coaches, send functional training videos (not tricks).. Repeat so coaches get to see you in person a few times. 

Be sure to carefully review and comply with inbound travel restrictions and quarantine guidelines cause that could obviously make a particular location a non starter.

i know there’s a line of thinking that multiple-school camps are a money grab and rarely are as meaningful as a school sponsored camp, but with the scarcity of tournaments and showcases, we’re looking for a multiplying efffect.

Innovative camps are letting registered players invite other coaches who are not affiliated with the camp the opportunity to watch live stream video from the camp.

Results so far are encouraging...our daughter has been contacted by more than a dozen coaches, invited to zoom meetings, virtual campus tours, and encouraged to keep them updated when the team schedule comes out.  A mix of D1 and D3 programs. Not bad for an unknown 2022 grad confronted with these unusual times!

Hope this helps a bit.


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> My 2 cents re. the new recruiting landscape:
> 
> Put on N-95 mask and fly to multiple-school ID camps. If you choose carefully with multiple schools that your kid is interested in, and schools where your kid has a realistic chance of getting attention of some coaches, they can be a good jumping off point.
> 
> Player needs to want it for themselves, email coaches, send functional training videos (not tricks).. Repeat so coaches get to see you in person a few times.
> 
> Be sure to carefully review and comply with inbound travel restrictions and quarantine guidelines cause that could obviously make a particular location a non starter.
> 
> i know there’s a line of thinking that multiple-school camps are a money grab and rarely are as meaningful as a school sponsored camp, but with the scarcity of tournaments and showcases, we’re looking for a multiplying efffect.
> 
> Innovative camps are letting registered players invite other coaches who are not affiliated with the camp the opportunity to watch live stream video from the camp.
> 
> Results so far are encouraging...our daughter has been contacted by more than a dozen coaches, invited to zoom meetings, virtual campus tours, and encouraged to keep them updated when the team schedule comes out.  A mix of D1 and D3 programs. Not bad for an unknown 2022 grad confronted with these unusual times!
> 
> Hope this helps a bit.


Thank you so much for the information bro.  I hope your dd finds what she's looking for in all these wild times.  Hopefully we can get some fall league games and then kick off high soccer with a bang


----------



## 310soccer

Question! Should you email a college coach during Covid? Better question is should you email a college coach with updates on how a player (05 Girl) is progressing with there strengths they've been working on, how training is starting up, Topdrawer ranking has went up, etc. It is overkill to reach out at this time or a waste of time?


----------



## Justafan

Giesbock said:


> My 2 cents re. the new recruiting landscape:
> 
> Put on N-95 mask and fly to multiple-school ID camps. If you choose carefully with multiple schools that your kid is interested in, and schools where your kid has a realistic chance of getting attention of some coaches, they can be a good jumping off point.
> 
> Player needs to want it for themselves, email coaches, send functional training videos (not tricks).. Repeat so coaches get to see you in person a few times.
> 
> Be sure to carefully review and comply with inbound travel restrictions and quarantine guidelines cause that could obviously make a particular location a non starter.
> 
> i know there’s a line of thinking that multiple-school camps are a money grab and rarely are as meaningful as a school sponsored camp, but with the scarcity of tournaments and showcases, we’re looking for a multiplying efffect.
> 
> Innovative camps are letting registered players invite other coaches who are not affiliated with the camp the opportunity to watch live stream video from the camp.
> 
> Results so far are encouraging...our daughter has been contacted by more than a dozen coaches, invited to zoom meetings, virtual campus tours, and encouraged to keep them updated when the team schedule comes out.  A mix of D1 and D3 programs. Not bad for an unknown 2022 grad confronted with these unusual times!
> 
> Hope this helps a bit.


Who's holding camps right now?  Washington, Oregon, Colorado, and California have no camps that I know of.


----------



## Soccerfan2

310soccer said:


> Question! Should you email a college coach during Covid? Better question is should you email a college coach with updates on how a player (05 Girl) is progressing with there strengths they've been working on, how training is starting up, Topdrawer ranking has went up, etc. It is overkill to reach out at this time or a waste of time?


Yes, still reach out periodically and/or when you have a meaningful update. Include training/skill clips when they show growth and progress.


----------



## Kicker4Life

310soccer said:


> Question! Should you email a college coach during Covid? Better question is should you email a college coach with updates on how a player (05 Girl) is progressing with there strengths they've been working on, how training is starting up, Topdrawer ranking has went up, etc. It is overkill to reach out at this time or a waste of time?


If she is a class of 2023 or 2024 then it is not a waste of time.


----------



## Ellejustus

310soccer said:


> Question! Should you email a college coach during Covid? Better question is should you email a college coach with updates on how a player (05 Girl) is progressing with there strengths they've been working on, how training is starting up, Topdrawer ranking has went up, etc. It is overkill to reach out at this time or a waste of time?


I've heard from a few insiders who said the coaches have a lot on their plate right about now.  Shoot them the ranking report that shows the green arrow going up ((dont send if you have a red arrow)) and I'm sure that might grab their attention.  Good luck 310 and be patient.  My dd ((2022)) has not emailed yet and is looking crack the top 150 before hitting send.


----------



## Copa9

Kicker4Life said:


> If she is a class of 2023 or 2024 then it is not a waste of time.


Reminder, check the new NCAA rules regarding contacting coaches. If you are a current Junior this school year you will be fine, if you are a sophomore or freshman double check all the rules.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Copa9 said:


> Reminder, check the new NCAA rules regarding contacting coaches. If you are a current Junior this school year you will be fine, if you are a sophomore or freshman double check all the rules.


Yah thanks. I’m pretty well versed in the rules and not one of them prevent the player contacting the Coach via email.


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> I've heard from a few insiders who said the coaches have a lot on their plate right about now.  Shoot them the ranking report that shows the green arrow going up ((dont send if you have a red arrow)) and I'm sure that might grab their attention.  Good luck 310 and be patient.  My dd ((2022)) has not emailed yet and is looking crack the top 150 before hitting send.


A lot on their plate? I would think it slowed down a bit given the 50% of teams have been moved to the fall. Maybe there concentrating on only 04's?


----------



## gotothebushes

Kicker4Life said:


> Yah thanks. I’m pretty well versed in the rules and not one of them prevent the player contacting the Coach via email.


 How often should you email a coach during this pandemic? Just Curious. If there's no updates and training just started, why even bother.


----------



## 310soccer

Soccerfan2 said:


> Yes, still reach out periodically and/or when you have a meaningful update. Include training/skill clips when they show growth and progress.


Thanks!


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> A lot on their plate? I would think it slowed down a bit given the 50% of teams have been moved to the fall. Maybe there concentrating on only 04's?


I wouldnt know for sure, but some are just hoping their program is alive after all this is over.   I was trying to get my player in the top 150 before all this went down.  I know your cool with no actual soccer games and just develop this season, what about next year?  No games for 12 more months or longer?  Is there even going to be a girls soccer program at some of these schools?


----------



## Kicker4Life

gotothebushes said:


> How often should you email a coach during this pandemic? Just Curious. If there's no updates and training just started, why even bother.


I would say that’s a personal preference. My DD is a 2023 and emails her Coach list monthly as a touch base (she waits for Holidays or other “Hallmark” (think National Cupcake day) type holidays to send them).


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> I wouldnt know for sure, but some are just hoping their program is alive after all this is over.   I was trying to get my player in the top 150 before all this went down.  I know your cool with no actual soccer games and just develop this season, what about next year?  No games for 12 more months or longer?  Is there even going to be a girls soccer program at some of these schools?


 I heard top drawer is not reliable because its ran by 3 dudes in Socal and the rankings are useless because anyone can email them barking that there dd is worthy of being top 150 and then 2 weeks later there dd is ranked. Any truth to that?  2 college scouts said they don't pay attention to top drawer. I see how it can help get your player some recognition though.


----------



## Zen

310soccer said:


> Question! Should you email a college coach during Covid? Better question is should you email a college coach with updates on how a player (05 Girl) is progressing with there strengths they've been working on, how training is starting up, Topdrawer ranking has went up, etc. It is overkill to reach out at this time or a waste of time?


Yes, especially if your daughter is really interested in the schools.  Now is a great time.  Email is not invasive.  Our coach advised we start writing freshman year (especially before showcases).  Even in absence of them, it does not hurt to try to get on their radar for when they resume.  Developing a relationship early may help differentiate her later when they're deciding between players that look similar/equal.  If playing in college is the goal, I would NOT advise waiting for their junior year to get started.  If the rules stay the same, it will be really important to write schools and send videos during her sophmore year before the June 15th date.  I think that will give your daughter the best positioning and options for whatever happens.


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> I wouldnt know for sure, but some are just hoping their program is alive after all this is over.   I was trying to get my player in the top 150 before all this went down.  I know your cool with no actual soccer games and just develop this season, what about next year?  No games for 12 more months or longer?  Is there even going to be a girls soccer program at some of these schools?


 @Ellejustus- I see your point why you want games for your dd. Personally you can send over clips of your daughter training rather than game footage. After 4 months of no training, not sure any player will show well in in a game.  Sending training clips is the way to go and just think, for 5 months your dd has been injury free. Chalk that up as a win. Good luck.


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> I heard top drawer is not reliable because its ran by 3 dudes in Socal and the rankings are useless because anyone can email them barking that there dd is worthy of being top 150 and then 2 weeks later there dd is ranked. Any truth to that?  2 college scouts said they don't pay attention to top drawer. I see how it can help get your player some recognition though.


I have no idea of who is what at TDS.  I like their site.  I was hoping someone from TDS would have saw something in my player to just add her name to it but never happen.  Just like no college coach is blowing up my phone.  This is all about 100% going after it and doing your home work and letting coaches and schools you have interest.  Go to ID camps and all that stuff. It's just so hard to predict the future.  All I know from my sources is my dd wont be playing this year or next year most likely.  She will stop playing and never go back because she will age out.  It sucks for me as a paying customer but I will save thousands and thousands of dollar and I get all my time to do as I please.  I was hoping for HS but that is not going to happen at this time unless something super radical happens.


----------



## Eagle33

Justafan said:


> Who's holding camps right now?  Washington, Oregon, Colorado, and California have no camps that I know of.


Actually you would be wrong. There was an ID Camp in Glendale on August 7th for boys only. One of the kids I know went to this camp.


----------



## Giesbock

As far as I know, my daughter is not on Topdrawer list so not sure how that works other than either coach recommendations or parental lobbying..

every single coach that has communicated with her has asked her to complete the school’s Athletic Questionnaire so I guess it stands to reason that completing the Questionnaire proactively would be a good idea..


----------



## Dargle

Giesbock said:


> As far as I know, my daughter is not on Topdrawer list so not sure how that works other than either coach recommendations or parental lobbying..


The building blocks of the lists are those invited to USYNT training centers or other official camps or teams.


----------



## Soccerfan2

gotothebushes said:


> I heard top drawer is not reliable because its ran by 3 dudes in Socal and the rankings are useless because anyone can email them barking that there dd is worthy of being top 150 and then 2 weeks later there dd is ranked. Any truth to that?  2 college scouts said they don't pay attention to top drawer. I see how it can help get your player some recognition though.


I think there’s definitely some truth to all of that. But, colleges also quote it to promote their own players and school. So, it means something to some people.


----------



## Ellejustus

Dargle said:


> The building blocks of the lists are those invited to USYNT training centers or other official camps or teams.


I hear you get bonus points for making a camp.  Get called up to a game and even more bonus points.  Plus, The List is emailed to all the D1 coaches.  I get all this now and the actual soccer games being played to be in pole position.  So interesting to pause and then reflect on the past.  It's all adding up in my little clueless brain of mine with no memory of the past.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Pay attention to the NCAA Board of Governors this week.  The D1 counsel has made recommendations that could effect your kids.  "Members also recommended the board give all fall sport student-athletes both an additional year of eligibility and an additional year in which to complete it, a recommendation that is even more flexible than what it endorsed last week. "   This would mean no matter if a someone plays or doesn't play soccer this Fall or this Spring, they would get an additional year.  That is every single senior, junior, sophomore and freshmen.  

In addition they recommend "The financial aid of fall sport senior student-athletes who take advantage of the additional year of eligibility and extended clock should not count against team limits in 2021-22."  This is actually good news for 2021 HS grads since the scholarship limits will be relaxed.  But it is bad news for 2022-2024 HS grads since they did not recommend the same thing for the next three years of college students.   So if colleges take advantage of the additional year granted for those players they will have less scholarships to offer those three year of HS students.


----------



## Dubs

Simisoccerfan said:


> Pay attention to the NCAA Board of Governors this week.  The D1 counsel has made recommendations that could effect your kids.  "Members also recommended the board give all fall sport student-athletes both an additional year of eligibility and an additional year in which to complete it, a recommendation that is even more flexible than what it endorsed last week. "   This would mean no matter if a someone plays or doesn't play soccer this Fall or this Spring, they would get an additional year.  That is every single senior, junior, sophomore and freshmen.
> 
> In addition they recommend "The financial aid of fall sport senior student-athletes who take advantage of the additional year of eligibility and extended clock should not count against team limits in 2021-22."  This is actually good news for 2021 HS grads since the scholarship limits will be relaxed.  But it is bad news for 2022-2024 HS grads since they did not recommend the same thing for the next three years of college students.   So if colleges take advantage of the additional year granted for those players they will have less scholarships to offer those three year of HS students.


That is good news for my DD.  However, it still doesn't address the log jam effect.  What if all the seniors do come back... Do rosters balloon to 40+?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Rosters will be bigger next year and teams can go above the 14 scholarships to bring back seniors.  But not the next three years so if those kids are staying and getting money it will need to come from somewhere.


----------



## Ellejustus

Simisoccerfan said:


> Pay attention to the NCAA Board of Governors this week.  The D1 counsel has made recommendations that could effect your kids.  "Members also recommended the board give all fall sport student-athletes both an additional year of eligibility and an additional year in which to complete it, a recommendation that is even more flexible than what it endorsed last week. "   This would mean no matter if a someone plays or doesn't play soccer this Fall or this Spring, they would get an additional year.  That is every single senior, junior, sophomore and freshmen.
> 
> In addition they recommend "The financial aid of fall sport senior student-athletes who take advantage of the additional year of eligibility and extended clock should not count against team limits in 2021-22."  This is actually good news for 2021 HS grads since the scholarship limits will be relaxed.  But it is bad news for 2022-2024 HS grads since they did not recommend the same thing for the next three years of college students.   So if colleges take advantage of the additional year granted for those players they will have less scholarships to offer those three year of HS students.


It just get's worse for the 2022s.  My gosh, can I get a refund on my $50,000 I spent going around through country looking for a coach to like my dd?  This is insane.  I guess the old Doc was right, "get your deal now before all the money dries up."  That was three years ago too.  Dam, I blew it for telling my baby girl who was 13 and 14 note to email.  Oh well, sh*t out of luck for the 2022s and olders.


----------



## Ellejustus

Simisoccerfan said:


> Rosters will be bigger next year and teams can go above the 14 scholarships to bring back seniors.  But not the next three years so if those kids are staying and getting money it will need to come from somewhere.


Sounds like a log jam to me the next few years.  45 girls on a roster and only 11 play.  Again, everyone has a different reason why they play soccer.


----------



## dk_b

Simisoccerfan said:


> Rosters will be bigger next year and teams can go above the 14 scholarships to bring back seniors.  But not the next three years so if those kids are staying and getting money it will need to come from somewhere.


Will be interesting to see, w/cash-strapped athletic departments, how many WILL go beyond the 14 scholarships and how many WON'T - not because they want to but b/c the funds are just not there.  Doesn't UCSB only fund 12 scholarships?  How many schools are like that?  How many of those just can't go beyond, whether it is 14 or 18 or 20?


----------



## socalkdg

Simisoccerfan said:


> Pay attention to the NCAA Board of Governors this week.  The D1 counsel has made recommendations that could effect your kids.  "Members also recommended the board give all fall sport student-athletes both an additional year of eligibility and an additional year in which to complete it, a recommendation that is even more flexible than what it endorsed last week. "   This would mean no matter if a someone plays or doesn't play soccer this Fall or this Spring, they would get an additional year.  That is every single senior, junior, sophomore and freshmen.
> 
> In addition they recommend "The financial aid of fall sport senior student-athletes who take advantage of the additional year of eligibility and extended clock should not count against team limits in 2021-22."  This is actually good news for 2021 HS grads since the scholarship limits will be relaxed.  But it is bad news for 2022-2024 HS grads since they did not recommend the same thing for the next three years of college students.   So if colleges take advantage of the additional year granted for those players they will have less scholarships to offer those three year of HS students.


College is expensive, and 90% of soccer scholarships are around 50%. How many kids are actually going to stay for a 5th year to play if they are graduating in 4 years?    Getting the degree is king for 95% of these kids.  Very few are going to play soccer after college.  I want my kid in and out of school in 4 years.   So it makes me wonder how many will stay an extra year just to play soccer?   I know this will be a boon to those that were taking 5 years to graduate or planning on doing grad school immediately.   What about D2, D3 and NAIA, same rules?


----------



## azsnowrider

socalkdg said:


> College is expensive, and 90% of soccer scholarships are around 50%. How many kids are actually going to stay for a 5th year to play if they are graduating in 4 years?    Getting the degree is king for 95% of these kids.  Very few are going to play soccer after college.  I want my kid in and out of school in 4 years.   So it makes me wonder how many will stay an extra year just to play soccer?   I know this will be a boon to those that were taking 5 years to graduate or planning on doing grad school immediately.   What about D2, D3 and NAIA, same rules?


These are the same questions I have. Most kids graduate (or should) after 4 years. Why would they stay for that 5th year of soccer and not go to school. Unless they did a graduate program, but most kids move onto another school for that. I for one would not be paying room and board, etc for my kid to play that 5th year. As you said its expensive enough as it is...


----------



## Dubs

dk_b said:


> Will be interesting to see, w/cash-strapped athletic departments, how many WILL go beyond the 14 scholarships and how many WON'T - not because they want to but b/c the funds are just not there.  Doesn't UCSB only fund 12 scholarships?  How many schools are like that?  How many of those just can't go beyond, whether it is 14 or 18 or 20?


I feel like many seniors will just move on, but I have no real basis for saying that... just gut feeling.  I may be completely off.


----------



## Desert Hound

socalkdg said:


> College is expensive, and 90% of soccer scholarships are around 50%. How many kids are actually going to stay for a 5th year to play if they are graduating in 4 years?


THIS. 

Most are not going to hang around another year of college when they have graduated is my guess. 

Who might want to? Those on a team that has a good chance of winning a natty.


----------



## dk_b

Desert Hound said:


> THIS.
> 
> Most are not going to hang around another year of college when they have graduated is my guess.
> 
> Who might want to? Those on a team that has a good chance of winning a natty.


if my kid were a senior and could have a year or even a semester of grad school paid and play another year of the game she loves (assuming she loves it b/c if she doesn't, ouch), I'd encourage it.  The only downside that I see is that, after 4 years of being on the squad, the incoming freshman probably look like (and, more importantly, act like) babies to the much more mature college graduate.

I had a conversation with a Yale grad (she graduated a couple of years ago) - she had a nice Ivy career and had a chance to play pro for a couple of years.  She was all-in b/c if it worked out for a few years or if it did not work out at all, she was still exceptionally young and could start her career or grad school then.  How many of us are doing the thing they started after graduating college?  How many of us think that putting off jobs for a year at age 22 would have been really detrimental to where you are today?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

socalkdg said:


> College is expensive, and 90% of soccer scholarships are around 50%. How many kids are actually going to stay for a 5th year to play if they are graduating in 4 years?    Getting the degree is king for 95% of these kids.  Very few are going to play soccer after college.  I want my kid in and out of school in 4 years.   So it makes me wonder how many will stay an extra year just to play soccer?   I know this will be a boon to those that were taking 5 years to graduate or planning on doing grad school immediately.   What about D2, D3 and NAIA, same rules?


They really only need to stay for the fall semester.  Say they were getting 50% (though if they are an impact senior they likely were getting more).  School costs say $40k.   That would be paying $10k for your kid to have a final season.  If the coach really wants them they could increase this to say 75%.  That lowers the cost to $5k.   If my kid was a starter and their team was competing to win league and play in the NCAA I would pay that.


----------



## Justafan

Eagle33 said:


> Actually you would be wrong. There was an ID Camp in Glendale on August 7th for boys only. One of the kids I know went to this camp.


I was speaking to actual schools holding their traditional Summer ID camps.


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> @Ellejustus- I see your point why you want games for your dd.* Personally you can send over clips of your daughter training rather than game footage.* After 4 months of no training, not sure any player will show well in in a game.  Sending training clips is the way to go and just think, for 5 months your dd has been injury free. Chalk that up as a win. Good luck.


Something like this but for soccer players?  What kind of drills can she do to show top D1 school.  BTW, when I say top D1, do you know what I mean?  I'm old school.  i was planning on being a HS School Hoops coach or big time D1 coach.  I would 100% have to see my top recruits play in tough games before I court them.  I need to see something something and you can only see that in the heat of battle.  You only get so many picks, you cant mess it up.  DD is putting together a highlight video from all her great plays over the years and will email at least 200 of the top D1, D2 and D3  schools when the time is right.  I'm hoping one of them will show some interest in her abilities.


----------



## oh canada

EOTL said:


> Some people have given me grief for saying that playing for the handful of queen maker coaches is the best and safest way to get recruited. If you did not heed it and your kid is an uncommitted junior or senior, you may be in real trouble, as Covid-19 has closed the door on the narrow path of playing showcases, getting seen there and emailing a lot of awesome recent video. A so so player at Blues before this happened is probably in much better shape right now than a much better player at the small club who hadn’t been found yet. Oh, and now is not the time to whine about fees if you’re one of the fortunate ones at a club with a coach who only needs to make a phone call on your kid’s behalf.
> 
> If it’s that important, you might consider moving to TX or GA, hopefully getting on one of their teams there, and taking your chances with Covid-19. Or get uber aggressive with the email and phone calls, and probably end up still having to try walking where you can get in academically and isn’t a soccer power. Even walking on may be rough at a lot of schools next fall if the season doesn’t move to spring, however, because a lot of seniors will come back or play as grad transfers, leaving a lot of teams with 5 years worth of players on the team. Also don’t discount juco until roster sizes return to normal.
> 
> One more “I told you so”. I was also critical of the NCAA changing the recruiting rules so that kids could not have contact until end of sophomore year or visit until junior year, as it left kids with a very compressed time frame to educate themselves and make commitment decisions. A lot of people are probably really wishing their sophomore and junior daughters could have met with coaches as freshman and possibly committed much earlier.
> 
> Seriously, when I say it’s probably gonna snow in CO in April or GDA will fail, maybe ya’ll should listen.


Don't fall for the EOTL puffery.  He/she's a Blues Homer (maybe even coach) who is stuck in the glory days of early 21st Century soccer and recruiting--when Netflix wasn't around, Blackberry was the phone of choice and mega clubs were the only game in town.  If your kid is a mediocre club player then yes, they will have a better chance getting that 35th roster spot at UCLA if playing for a "queen or king maker".  But if your player is good enough to start for an ECNL or MLS squad and is diligent with their academics and personal communications...2020 technology, social media, and league showcases, level the playing field and present plenty of opportunity for players to be found and join the college of their choice while playing for a club/team/coach that they enjoy.


----------



## Ellejustus

oh canada said:


> Don't fall for the EOTL puffery.  He/she's a Blues Homer (maybe even coach) who is stuck in the glory days of early 21st Century soccer and recruiting--when Netflix wasn't around, Blackberry was the phone of choice and mega clubs were the only game in town.  If your kid is a mediocre club player then yes, they will have a better chance getting that 35th roster spot at UCLA if playing for a "queen or king maker".  But if your player is good enough to start for an ECNL or MLS squad and is diligent with their academics and personal communications...2020 technology, social media, and league showcases, level the playing field and present plenty of opportunity for players to be found and join the college of their choice while playing for a club/team/coach that they enjoy.


Best take ever Mr Canada.  Blues homer and does not like me at all or my little baby girl that was at Blues and then left to the competitor down south and low and behold, 4 other goats came one at a time all by their loss-oms.  I  got blamed for the mass exodus and I swear I never forced or even told someone to follow us.  My dd is an Eagle and flies alone, not in a pack of 5.  BS what these coaches will do to make someone look bad.


----------



## Giesbock

Should bear in mind that soccer is a team sport...watch top German clubs (yes, I’m biased that way) and most play is close to one touch...

Agree with @ohcanada...play with people you enjoy, find a coach you like, choose a program where you’re wanted and needed (who in their right mind wants to be player #38 on the depth chart!!??) and make damn sure you like the school soccer aside.


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> Should bear in mind that soccer is a team sport...watch top German clubs (yes, I’m biased that way) and most play is close to one touch...
> 
> Agree with @ohcanada...play with people you enjoy, find a coach you like, choose a program where you’re wanted and needed (who in their right mind wants to be player #38 on the depth chart!!??) and make damn sure you like the school soccer aside.


I interview people for a living.  If you like to play soccer, watch out.  It's a job and you earn every penny.  If your happy being at the school and #43, then all good and so happy.  If you want to play, you need serious help.  I like a good and healthy coach who knows and cares about everyone.


----------



## Giesbock

I think that puts us on the same page...


----------



## neverplanned4soccer

Ellejustus said:


> It just get's worse for the 2022s.  My gosh, can I get a refund on my $50,000 I spent going around through country looking for a coach to like my dd?  This is insane.  I guess the old Doc was right, "get your deal now before all the money dries up."  That was three years ago too.  Dam, I blew it for telling my baby girl who was 13 and 14 note to email.  Oh well, sh*t out of luck for the 2022s and olders.


Please tell me you are being sarcastic about traveling around trying to find a coach who would like your player?


----------



## SD_Soccer

Simisoccerfan said:


> They really only need to stay for the fall semester.  Say they were getting 50% (though if they are an impact senior they likely were getting more).  School costs say $40k.   That would be paying $10k for your kid to have a final season.  If the coach really wants them they could increase this to say 75%.  That lowers the cost to $5k.   If my kid was a starter and their team was competing to win league and play in the NCAA I would pay that.


I could see more players transfer to where they want to go to grad school with a year of eligibility in hand and play there, unless their school happens to have the graduate program they are going into. This will create more scenarios for players, that is for sure.


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## eastbaysoccer

I would advise to take AP courses if you can earn a B or better.


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## SWHPH

A couple of folks wrote about TopDrawer rankings.  
How do the kids get on the rankings?  And how does one "crack the top 150"?  
I thought this was something the coaches do.


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## gotothebushes

SWHPH said:


> A couple of folks wrote about TopDrawer rankings.
> How do the kids get on the rankings?  And how does one "crack the top 150"?
> I thought this was something the coaches do.


found this for you: As far as I know, my daughter is not on Topdrawer list so not sure how that works other than either coach recommendations or parental lobbying..


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## Giesbock

Yeah that’s a comment I made a few days ago but it’s just me speculating...  someone else commented that the foundation of the list is Made up of players who have been invited to YNT camps.


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## MMMM

Giesbock said:


> Yeah that’s a comment I made a few days ago but it’s just me speculating...  someone else commented that the foundation of the list is Made up of players who have been invited to YNT camps.


it has more to do with clubs and whether the clubs are advocating players or submitting blurbs to TDS writers. It looks like that’s the primary element, whether the player’s name has been mentioned in a TDS article about YNT rosters, about standout players in last weekend’s games, about whatever. If your player’s club isn’t feeding the TDS writing and clicking machine, then less likelihood of a TDS rank for your player.


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## Eagle33

my understanding is TDS is for something outstanding that happened. Not sure how it gets there 
My kid was mentioned while playing DA and then while playing HS. Later because of college roster.


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## Ellejustus

SWHPH said:


> A couple of folks wrote about TopDrawer rankings.
> How do the kids get on the rankings?  And how does one "crack the top 150"?
> I thought this was something the coaches do.


Back in my DD u11 days, I used to dream of my baby goat cracking the top 150.  After winning the natty, I thought for sure she would be voted in by the coaches.  Nope, never.  You need to pay $59 and then load up soccer stats and info.  The first year of the GDA, some of the articles were written weird and too flattering imo.  I know my dd got left out so I was jaded with jealousy, so any thoughts or insight from my vantage point would be tainted.  Articles, awards, Camp invites from leagues, and this and that and championships.  YNT List is how you crack the top 25 and get your name in front of the top D1 coaches in the country.  Not sure how it will work in the future but that old way was hard and not perfect.  I see girls on their that quit already or are about to.  It's nice to have your kids on there and the top 25 is legit I believe.  You have to pay to see the top 150 i believe...


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## dk_b

My kid's experience with TDS's "Rankings" does not really match a lot of what is being discussed as "the way it works".  And while schools like to use TDS rankings for their PR, I don't think the coaches use it in their recruiting - I think they use things like id2 and YNT camps (those "lists" are more important) and then the old fashioned "seeing players play".  Some of this may be different in this new era (my kid was recruited under the old rules) but it is hard to know given how this "new era" has been so impacted by far fewer games, showcases, etc.  What I can say is that I know plenty of kids who were not Top 150 (either at all or prior to making a verbal commitment) who earned substantial (up to full ride) scholarships. What seemed to matter more was being on an elite team and/or playing for a coach whose opinion carries weight with college coaches.


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## Dubs

TDS is certainly not that end all be all for anything and the rakings can be dubious.  However, if indeed your kid is identified and ranked, it's use can be advantageous.  It's another "proof point" or at least thing to point to that the player can call out while communicating with college coaches.  To that end, it's a good place to post accolades/articles.  Profiles are free so if your DD doesn't already have one set up, probably a good idea to do it.  Like DK says, there are plenty of players that aren't even on TDS that get schollys.  It's just another potential marketing resource for your kid.


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## Simisoccerfan

TDS rankings are a bit of a joke along with their college recruiting class rankings that are based on the player rankings.  First if your player is not called to the National Team, they need a coach or club that cares about TDS and is willing to advocate to them.  You can get ranked if you play in a TDS event and you happen to have a scout evaluation done.   One star and two star ratings mean they have not seen you or your club is not actively advocating.   After the first 15 or 20 kids it is impossible to get it right.  We all know players that have had a high rating and they are not even one of the better players on their club team.  

Personally, I would advise any kid trying to get recruited to never mention their ranking to a coach.  Coaches don't care about this crap.  They care about the quality of the team you are on, putting their eyes on your to see how good you are, and what their specific needs are at the time.  Better yet, find a team with a coach who has college connections and is willing to talk to college coaches about your kid.


----------



## Dubs

Simisoccerfan said:


> TDS rankings are a bit of a joke along with their college recruiting class rankings that are based on the player rankings.  First if your player is not called to the National Team, they need a coach or club that cares about TDS and is willing to advocate to them.  You can get ranked if you play in a TDS event and you happen to have a scout evaluation done.   One star and two star ratings mean they have not seen you or your club is not actively advocating.   After the first 15 or 20 kids it is impossible to get it right.  We all know players that have had a high rating and they are not even one of the better players on their club team.
> 
> Personally, I would advise any kid trying to get recruited to never mention their ranking to a coach.  Coaches don't care about this crap.  They care about the quality of the team you are on, putting their eyes on your to see how good you are, and what their specific needs are at the time.  Better yet, find a team with a coach who has college connections and is willing to talk to college coaches about your kid.


Agreed.  I hope I didn't come across like I'm putting stock in TDS.  It is really as I explained.. just a marketing point of reference.  You are also correct in stating the quality of the team you're on, the coach you play for and their connections, etc... are paramount.


----------



## dk_b

Simisoccerfan said:


> Better yet, find a team with a coach who has college connections and is willing to talk to college coaches about your kid.


I cannot stress this last sentence enough. Part of coaching "college potential" players at the club level during their recruiting years is marketing your players to college coaches.  College coaches don't want to hear from parents and while they do want the players to drive the conversation once it gets started, an engaged club coach/advocate is ENORMOUS.  I have seen first hand what happens when you have coaches who are responsive to college coaches and are advocates for players and what happens when club coaches don't do jack s*it to respond to calls or to assist w/a player's "list".  It is not in the coach's interest for his or her player to be placed above the player's ability but it absolutely is part of the job to find the right level and then advocate for the player (D1, D2, D3, NAIA, community college).  When I think of coaches who shirk that responsibility I get PISSED b/c there are kids whom I have known since U-littles who are good players and could play in college (not P5 and maybe not D1 but somewhere) who never got a sniff b/c they did not understand the process (they thought it was a "if you play in a 'college showcase', you will be seen" and that will be that, no matter the level, the colleges attending, etc.) and the coach did very little to educate them on their role and on the coach's role.

Short story: I was always the guy working the sideline for my kid's team - I put together the brochure, talked with the coaches, pointed out the younger ones (who were a HS class behind most of the kids) and the ones who were uncommitted, etc. I did it for the years after my kid committed b/c I really enjoyed it and I was able to get to know the coaches (they didn't always know my name but they knew I was my kid's dad and it was fun to talk to them about the team, about their team, about my own kid (of course) w/o the "pressure" of recruiting). I offer that by way of background b/c there was one guy from one of the SoCal clubs who was just so awesome about talking to the coaches, He was a marvel. My daughter's team matched with that club pretty much every year she played - starting at Surf Cup, two years in EGSL NorCal-SoCal showcases (when ECNL started at U14 so these were U12 and U13 events) and then every year in an ECNL showcase, so I got to watch him a lot (though not in those early years b/c we weren't doing the sideline thing). The contrast with me - just some dad who enjoyed the process, felt OK with chatting, etc. v a real "soccer guy" who knew the players and the college coaches, who had a track record individually and whose club had a big footprint - was so big. But he wasn't a dick about it - he was great. I'm not going to name him or the club (though it looks like he's no longer part of that club - not sure how long ago he would have left) b/c most of you SoCal people have more info about all the coaches and this is very much a surface-based observation (for all I know he was a monster even if he treated me well when we'd see each other in the airport). But I thought to myself, "THAT's how you do it if you are the DOC or technical director or just a coach of a team that is not playing but whose sister team is". You make the time. You do your job.

@Simisoccerfan's last sentence probably provides me with this one piece of unsolicited advice: if your kid's coach is NOT doing the legwork, find a new coach who will (it includes being able to listen when the coach gives an honest assessment of the right level).


----------



## Ellejustus

dk_b said:


> I cannot stress this last sentence enough. Part of coaching "college potential" players at the club level during their recruiting years is marketing your players to college coaches.  College coaches don't want to hear from parents and while they do want the players to drive the conversation once it gets started, an engaged club coach/advocate is ENORMOUS.  I have seen first hand what happens when you have coaches who are responsive to college coaches and are advocates for players and what happens when club coaches don't do jack s*it to respond to calls or to assist w/a player's "list".  It is not in the coach's interest for his or her player to be placed above the player's ability but it absolutely is part of the job to find the right level and then advocate for the player (D1, D2, D3, NAIA, community college).  When I think of coaches who shirk that responsibility I get PISSED b/c there are kids whom I have known since U-littles who are good players and could play in college (not P5 and maybe not D1 but somewhere) who never got a sniff b/c they did not understand the process (they thought it was a "if you play in a 'college showcase', you will be seen" and that will be that, no matter the level, the colleges attending, etc.) and the coach did very little to educate them on their role and on the coach's role.
> 
> Short story: I was always the guy working the sideline for my kid's team - I put together the brochure, talked with the coaches, pointed out the younger ones (who were a HS class behind most of the kids) and the ones who were uncommitted, etc. I did it for the years after my kid committed b/c I really enjoyed it and I was able to get to know the coaches (they didn't always know my name but they knew I was my kid's dad and it was fun to talk to them about the team, about their team, about my own kid (of course) w/o the "pressure" of recruiting). I offer that by way of background b/c there was one guy from one of the SoCal clubs who was just so awesome about talking to the coaches, He was a marvel. My daughter's team matched with that club pretty much every year she played - starting at Surf Cup, two years in EGSL NorCal-SoCal showcases (when ECNL started at U14 so these were U12 and U13 events) and then every year in an ECNL showcase, so I got to watch him a lot (though not in those early years b/c we weren't doing the sideline thing). The contrast with me - just some dad who enjoyed the process, felt OK with chatting, etc. v a real "soccer guy" who knew the players and the college coaches, who had a track record individually and whose club had a big footprint - was so big. But he wasn't a dick about it - he was great. I'm not going to name him or the club (though it looks like he's no longer part of that club - not sure how long ago he would have left) b/c most of you SoCal people have more info about all the coaches and this is very much a surface-based observation (for all I know he was a monster even if he treated me well when we'd see each other in the airport). But I thought to myself, "THAT's how you do it if you are the DOC or technical director or just a coach of a team that is not playing but whose sister team is". You make the time. You do your job.
> 
> @Simisoccerfan's last sentence probably provides me with this one piece of unsolicited advice: if your kid's coach is NOT doing the legwork, find a new coach who will (it includes being able to listen when the coach gives an honest assessment of the right level).


DK, thanks for sharing.  I had such an opposite experience with all that you shared, I had to go scream outside in the hills where I hike.  I thinks it's best for me to just let all this go by the waste side.  Interesting how this went down in the old days.  I pissed the wrong person(s) off now that I understand what one parent was doing on my behalf.  They talk to coach, "hey, here's the scope on so and so.  Nightmare dad, dd is this and that, move on.....lol.  You seem too nice of a dad to pull that sh*t and I wish I had you down here a few years ago in my dd corner and helping me get what I wanted for my dd. I was so confused when she was in 8th grade and all this pressure to email and put GPA as 8th grader on brochure.  I totally understand how all this went down now.  How old was the youngest that committed DK?


----------



## NorCal

When the class of 2022 top 150 class list came out I did show my daughter. She was happy to be on there but she didn’t agree on the list for both her position (GK) or other positions. But I don’t think there’s ever a list or ranking that’s  accurate. We literally haven’t talked about the list since that day. She’s also had 2-3 college coach contacts a week since June 15th and TDS ranking has come up a grand totally of 0 times in those conversations. Just to give you guys some perspective, at least from our experience.


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## dk_b

Ellejustus said:


> DK, thanks for sharing.  I had such an opposite experience with all that you shared, I had to go scream outside in the hills where I hike.  I thinks it's best for me to just let all this go by the waste side.  Interesting how this went down in the old days.  I pissed the wrong person(s) off now that I understand what one parent was doing on my behalf.  They talk to coach, "hey, here's the scope on so and so.  Nightmare dad, dd is this and that, move on.....lol.  You seem too nice of a dad to pull that sh*t and I wish I had you down here a few years ago in my dd corner and helping me get what I wanted for my dd. I was so confused when she was in 8th grade and all this pressure to email and put GPA as 8th grader on brochure.  I totally understand how all this went down now.  How old was the youngest that committed DK?


The youngest from her team? Or the youngest overall?  I can’t answer the 2d question and as for the first - the first to commit waited until after she turned 15 but her first offers were at 14. I can’t remember the final #s - especially because this last year had a split year and only half a season due to covid but I think by the end of their Jr year they had 12 or 13 D1s and 1 D2 but 1 of the committed players ended up signing an NLI in a different sport (I should know the #s but it’s now been a while since I looked at the list)


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## Ellejustus

dk_b said:


> The youngest from her team? Or the youngest overall?  I can’t answer the 2d question and as for the first - the first to commit waited until after she turned 15 but her first offers were at 14. I can’t remember the final #s - especially because this last year had a split year and only half a season due to covid but I think by the end of their Jr year they had 12 or 13 D1s and 1 D2 but 1 of the committed players ended up signing an NLI in a different sport (I should know the #s but it’s now been a while since I looked at the list)


14 is the right age DK.  Top top goat got recruited in the old rules as 7th and 8th graders.  8th graders had to be able to ball and have big time GPA and SAT potential.  I like the coach K approach.  I'm sure the recruit is also seeing if he wants to ball with Coach K.  It's got to be a fit for the two Eagles.  I understand how the old system work and all that.  You had to help out.  The recruiting was a phone date.  Maybe ID camp before and a quick hi and then the bday phone call.  Your one of the good one's and I wish you and your dd great success in college


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## Ellejustus

I want to give a 5 Star Coach Review shout out to the great Tad Bobak.  He get's my JW Award for 2020.  He taught the girls how to live life first and my dd was blessed to be taught by him for two great years.  Thank you Tad


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## outside!

Ellejustus said:


> I want to give a 5 Star Coach Review shout out to the great Tad Bobak.  He get's my JW Award for 2020.  He taught the girls how to live life first and my dd was blessed to be taught by him for two great years.  Thank you Tad


He is also the guy that will cold call players from an opposing team to try to recruit them in the middle of the season (and replace his current players). He does this all the time. I believe coaches, players and parents should honor their commitments for a season. The only reason a player should leave a team mid-season are if the coach is abusive or the player moves. Asking a player to switch teams in the middle of the season puts pressure on them to not honor their prior commitments. Not cool.


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## Ellejustus

outside! said:


> *He is also the guy that will cold call players from an opposing team to try to recruit them in the middle of the season (and replace his current players).* He does this all the time. I believe coaches, players and parents should honor their commitments for a season. The only reason a player should leave a team mid-season are if the coach is abusive or the player moves. Asking a player to switch teams in the middle of the season puts pressure on them to not honor their prior commitments. Not cool.


That is 100% true.  That's how you keep winning.  Drop the bottom 20% every year.  He's super up front about that as well.  He will not drop a player during the season or add a player during the season unless they moved into town.  That was my two year experience.  Tad played it super fair.  I will look for my one year deal we signed with the great Tad.  You also saw him and the Gaffer looking at next years potential recruits at other games.  I would try and be his friend after games and I'm like, "where you going coach ((call me Tad please he would say)), I'm watching Slammers vs Legends. He had his note cards out too. Now my dd is not the recruited anymore.  She has to earn her spot and wont find out until after the season.  I told my dd that Tad is watching so and so, so you better work your ass off or your DD is getting cut.....lol.  My dd loved that challenge.  Some girls, no, they want promises of development and leave it up to the club and coach to make them great.  Tad never promised more then one year Outside. Is he supposed to promise them a rose garden for 7 years?  No promises except one and done or try and not get cut.


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## outside!

Ellejustus said:


> That is 100% true.  That's how you keep winning.  Drop the bottom 20% every year.  He's super up front about that as well.  He will not drop a player during the season or add a player during the season unless they moved into town.  That was my two year experience.  Tad played it super fair.  I will look for my one year deal we signed with the great Tad.  You also saw him and the Gaffer looking at next years potential recruits at other games.  I would try and be his friend after games and I'm like, "where you going coach ((call me Tad please he would say)), I'm watching Slammers vs Legends. He had his note cards out too. Now my dd is not the recruited anymore.  She has to earn her spot and wont find out until after the season.  I told my dd that Tad is watching so and so, so you better work your ass off or your DD is getting cut.....lol.  My dd loved that challenge.  Some girls, no, they want promises of development and leave it up to the club and coach to make them great.  Tad never promised more then one year Outside. Is he supposed to promise them a rose garden for 7 years?  No promises except one and done or try and not get cut.


I referred ONLY to the season. I am not sure where you got seven years. He asked players on DD's team to come to his practice in the middle of the season (after a very competitive game between the two teams). I have heard that he is very honest. He told one parent of a prospective recruit "Our parents are crazy". I have known some very cool parents from his teams. They say the same thing. He is more focused on recruiting than anything else. His teams are a great way to get noticed by college coaches, but there are definitely downsides. If you see a team that does not have as many highly rated players tie or beat his team on a regular basis, you have found a coach that teaches a better game.


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## Ellejustus

I found it.  Amazing to read back and see how fair this was.  Tad made the decisions.  No promises of nothing.  He honored his word.  No one ever joined his team mid season or borrowed to win a tournament. and i think we only had 16.  My dd was approached by Goat FC recruiters and he he said, "yes" for her to play.  Legends asked to borrow her for a tournament and he said, "Yes."  The only time my dd and the great AT got to play together.  She was guesting as well.  One two punch.  My dd got a killer goal in the finals but we lost.  Then, Doc Spooner called for her to join his team during Surf Thanksgiving.  Tad again said, "Yes." Tad never wanted to keep a goat from playing a game.  he always told me to look at other car dealerships. Tad never brought a player to our team like others.  He said that caused too much bad blood and he doesnt feel he is being loyal to his one year commitment he made to the parents and players.  The age change was coming so that's why I wansn;t loyal to him.  The other three clubs brought my dd in mid season to "win her over" and I look back and wish we never did that.  I saw the look on parents faces whose kids got benched because my dd came in and stole the show, so to speak.  That was wrong on my part and I see that now.  You dont make friends doing that.


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## EOTL

outside! said:


> He is also the guy that will cold call players from an opposing team to try to recruit them in the middle of the season (and replace his current players). He does this all the time. I believe coaches, players and parents should honor their commitments for a season. The only reason a player should leave a team mid-season are if the coach is abusive or the player moves. Asking a player to switch teams in the middle of the season puts pressure on them to not honor their prior commitments. Not cool.


The only reason a player should leave a team mid-season is if it is their best interest to do so. Kids are not the personal property or indentured servants of a youth soccer club or the parents of her teammates. If a kid finds better opportunity, be happy for them.


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## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> The only reason a player should leave a team mid-season is if it is their best interest to do so. Kids are not the personal property or indentured servants of a youth soccer club or the parents of her teammates. If a kid finds better opportunity, be happy for them.


Wow, thanks.  I feet better now....lol


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## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> The only reason a player should leave a team mid-season is if it is their best interest to do so. Kids are not the personal property or indentured servants of a youth soccer club or the parents of her teammates. If a kid finds better opportunity, be happy for them.


Yah...screw teaching your kids about commitment.  Unless there is a problem (that doesn’t include not winning), you finish what you start.


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## oh canada

Kicker4Life said:


> Yah...screw teaching your kids about commitment.  Unless there is a problem (that doesn’t include not winning), you finish what you start.


Except that the clubs have it set up now where players and families are at a disadvantage....they ask for commitments months prior to the current season ending.  December tryouts with State Cup in March or for the older kids March/April tryouts (sometimes earlier) with season ending June/July.  Clubs deliberately set it up that way for early $$ collection.  Many other states run tryouts at the right time.  Blues, Legends, Surf and the few other big clubs schedule their tryouts earlier each year and the other clubs have no choice but to follow.


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## Ellejustus

oh canada said:


> Except that the clubs have it set up now where players and families are at a disadvantage....they ask for commitments months prior to the current season ending.  December tryouts with State Cup in March or for the older kids March/April tryouts (sometimes earlier) with season ending June/July.  Clubs deliberately set it up that way for early $$ collection.  Many other states run tryouts at the right time.  Blues, Legends, Surf and the few other big clubs schedule their tryouts earlier each year and the other clubs have no choice but to follow.


That is so tru too.  So, no one size fits all.  Kicker perceived I was after the natty and winning back in the day. Why?  Because we won....lol.  Just having some fun Kicker.  In truth, i wanted my dd to be the perceived worse on the team ((smallest at the time)) and work her ass off and always look over her shoulder knowing someone was knocking on her door to take her starting spot.  All this development BS was all about business and how to grow club with tier 1, 2 and 3 deep teams of world class potential.  I 100% agree you should honor your commitment when possible.  The only one who wants a commitment at the beginning of the year is the club....hahahahahaha.  However, if the Doc is or was a bad example to young females and lies every time he open his mouth, then it's time to leave and look for and find honesty in a coach.  Tad was honest and ethical and did all his recruiting out in the open.  He had a knack for talent too. He told me my dd was born to play soccer   He also knew some girls quit soccer so that's one reason to always keep the goats on their toes and never feel comfortable.  Plus, I saw so many coaches put kids on da bench knowing they have no chance when the coach said all these glowing things before the season started to have 20 players x $$$??? plus privates.  In return for pay to play, he or she will talk on your behalf to da coaches and da scouts.  Better be nice and never question one's behavior or else!!!!  My advice, honor your commitment unless coache or Docs lie too much.  If big lie, your free to leave anytime you want.


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## Kicker4Life

oh canada said:


> Except that the clubs have it set up now where players and families are at a disadvantage....they ask for commitments months prior to the current season ending.  December tryouts with State Cup in March or for the older kids March/April tryouts (sometimes earlier) with season ending June/July.  Clubs deliberately set it up that way for early $$ collection.  Many other states run tryouts at the right time.  Blues, Legends, Surf and the few other big clubs schedule their tryouts earlier each year and the other clubs have no choice but to follow.


If you make the commitment, honor it!

You are the consumer, the power is yours if you take it.  Otherwise you give in to the anxiety of being left out....but that’s your decision.


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## dad4

Kicker4Life said:


> If you make the commitment, honor it!
> 
> You are the consumer, the power is yours if you take it.  Otherwise you give in to the anxiety of being left out....but that’s your decision.


Depends a little on how the club treats players.  Commitment goes both ways.

If the club promises a 17 player roster and runs with 23, then they are in no place to ask anyone to “honor their commitment”.  Same goes for clubs that tell kids they made a team then never get around to actually putting them on the field.


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## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> *If you make the commitment, honor it!*
> 
> You are the consumer, the power is yours if you take it.  Otherwise you give in to the anxiety of being left out....but that’s your decision.


Ya ya, sounds all good but some of these Docs were a joke and never honored their word to some girls.  I had a friend who gave a two week notice and the boss man told him to f off and grab his stuff and get out.  Then another person the following week quit and the same boss man got a mad because they gave no two week notice.  If your in sales and top dog and you want to leave, their is no easy way.  Owners say give two weeks but I hardly see a company keep their top sales rep around for two weeks.  That's for obvious reasons bro.....lol


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## kickingandscreaming

Kicker4Life said:


> Yah...screw teaching your kids about commitment.  Unless there is a problem (that doesn’t include not winning), you finish what you start.





oh canada said:


> Except that the clubs have it set up now where players and families are at a disadvantage....they ask for commitments months prior to the current season ending.  December tryouts with State Cup in March or for the older kids March/April tryouts (sometimes earlier) with season ending June/July.  Clubs deliberately set it up that way for early $$ collection.  Many other states run tryouts at the right time.  Blues, Legends, Surf and the few other big clubs schedule their tryouts earlier each year and the other clubs have no choice but to follow.


Both of these statements have merit. Honoring commitment is an important lesson for children, but the system is "rigged" now in favor of the club. My suggestions:
- No tryouts and no fees collected until all activities from the previous season (playoffs, championship, etc.) are complete
- Have a "cut-off" date somewhere around 1/3 to 1/2 of the season after which a player can not play in the same league/age group combination for another team than one in which they played the most league games. ("Tiebreaker" is their own age group)

I believe a year is a long time to "tie up" a child playing a game that is paid for by their parents. If we were talking about a 3 month Fall season or a 3 month Spring season, I'd feel differently about it.

dad4 mentions another good reason that we shouldn't strictly enforce a year commitment. I'd also ask if the player is expected to be at the club for a year, shouldn't the coach be expected to be there the full year as well? If not, why tie the player to the club for a full year?

Just my two cents.


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## Kicker4Life

dad4 said:


> Depends a little on how the club treats players.  Commitment goes both ways.
> 
> If the club promises a 17 player roster and runs with 23, then they are in no place to ask anyone to “honor their commitment”.  Same goes for clubs that tell kids they made a team then never get around to actually putting them on the field.


Agreed...refer back to my initial comment


----------



## Ellejustus

dad4 said:


> Depends a little on how the club treats players.  Commitment goes both ways.
> 
> *If the club promises a 17 player roster and runs with 23*, then they are in no place to ask anyone to “honor their commitment”.  Same goes for clubs that tell kids they made a team then never get around to actually putting them on the field.


We agree Dad of 4.  Man, sometimes we agree and sometimes we dont and that' ok.  This lie right here is the worse of of lies for those fighting for play time.  5 lucky girls get picked.  If your told 23 and you sign up, cool.  Not cool if your told 18 and then 20.  Two unlucky are not playing.  My dd was told one time right before a big game with many scouts that she will sit this one out.  Classic. No way I was going to let this guy lie some more.  Kicker says to honor the commitment and I say, "see ya."  What a waste of time and money for kids who have to play.  Not all kids and parents have to play.  My kid does.  We pay to play in the games, not pay and travel and watch from the bench.   Liar lair pants on fire is no more........


----------



## dk_b

This is a tough topic if your kid is playing at a small club and has kids leave for the shiny object up the road. They don't go b/c the small club promised 17 and ended up with 23, they go b/c the shiny object up the road has promised more exposure, better competition and higher level training. 2 of those 3 things may be true and it may also mean more time on the bench, more $$$, a "promise" followed simply filling a roster.  I'm sympathetic towards the player who has been mislead by a club and wants out but I feel scorn toward the clubs who recruit mid-cycle and "successfully" lure players and then decimate the small team of the small club.

When kids commit, they are not just committing to the club but they are to all their teammates and their teammates to them.  And unless the circumstances are damaging (abuse, bullying, false promises), I don't think players should move mid-cycle and I think clubs should be sanctioned severely if/when it happens (have an appeal process so that a player can get out of the commitment if the release can't be granted amicably).  I have watched this from a big and small club, I have watched kids who SHOULD move to the larger platform only to find herself playing up a couple of years not because that's the appropriate level but b/c the club needed players and I have seen players move only to sit unless/until the stars need a break.  None of them - NONE OF THEM - have landed college offers and in this small sample, their departure really hurt teams in a small club.

I have also seen kids being promised a reasonable roster at an ECNL club only to have more #s than expected.  And while there can be a good explanation - a national team player who missed time, the "age of injury", SATs and other weekend commitments - some players felt misled or ended up declining the final offer.  If that kid had joined, I think she'd have been in her right to leave (and b/c that would be FROM a big club, the club could certainly absorb the loss).


----------



## EOTL

Kicker4Life said:


> If you make the commitment, honor it!
> 
> You are the consumer, the power is yours if you take it.  Otherwise you give in to the anxiety of being left out....but that’s your decision.


No. You are darn right that I am the consumer. If I’m not getting sufficient value out of what I’m paying for, I will go somewhere that will.

Don’t tell me my kid ever committed to play a full season anywhere. That’s a false assumption. Regardless, I would rephrase to say that I never agreed my child would pass up better opportunities and also endure a miserable 12 months because some daddy wants her to prop up his kid’s (or more likely his) self-esteem. 

The irony is that any club that tries to force a kid to do something that is not in their best interest is exactly the type of club they should bail on. If a kid is better served somewhere else, a club should happily let them go. It’s incredibly petty to expect that a 13 year old girl will pass up better opportunities for herself because it benefits you. In fact, claiming that a kid is leaving because she is chasing wins is incredibly disingenuous because, really, you’re the one chasing wins by trying to keep her somewhere she doesn’t want to be.


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> No. You are darn right that I am the consumer. If I’m not getting sufficient value out of what I’m paying for, I will go somewhere that will.
> 
> Don’t tell me my kid ever committed to play a full season anywhere. That’s a false assumption. Regardless, I would rephrase to say that I never agreed my child would pass up better opportunities and also endure a miserable 12 months because some daddy wants her to prop up his kid’s (or more likely his) self-esteem.
> 
> The irony is that any club that tries to force a kid to do something that is not in their best interest is exactly the type of club they should bail on. If a kid is better served somewhere else, a club should happily let them go. It’s incredibly petty to expect that a 13 year old girl will pass up better opportunities for herself because it benefits you. In fact, claiming that a kid is leaving because she is chasing wins is incredibly disingenuous because, really, you’re the one chasing wins by trying to keep her somewhere she doesn’t want to be.


I can’t tell if you are agreeing or arguing....like I said, as long as there aren’t other issues that don’t include winning games.

The OP was about a coach who would call to recruit players from other teams.  If everything is fine with Coach, roster, environment, etc, you should honor your commitment and not just bail for the perceived greener pastures.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> No. You are darn right that I am the consumer. If I’m not getting sufficient value out of what I’m paying for, I will go somewhere that will.
> 
> Don’t tell me my kid ever committed to play a full season anywhere. That’s a false assumption. Regardless, I would rephrase to say that I never agreed my child would pass up better opportunities and also endure a miserable 12 months because some daddy wants her to prop up his kid’s (or more likely his) self-esteem.
> 
> The irony is that any club that tries to force a kid to do something that is not in their best interest is exactly the type of club they should bail on. If a kid is better served somewhere else, a club should happily let them go. It’s incredibly petty to expect that a 13 year old girl will pass up better opportunities for herself because it benefits you. In fact, claiming that a kid is leaving because she is chasing wins is incredibly disingenuous because, really, you’re the one chasing wins by trying to keep her somewhere she doesn’t want to be.


Dang, we agree again.  WTH is happening........


----------



## Ellejustus

EJ's Tip of The Day


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Ellejustus said:


> EJ's Tip of The Day
> 
> View attachment 8797


I never heard the 2nd one, but it's great advice.


----------



## Ellejustus

kickingandscreaming said:


> I never heard the 2nd one, but it's great advice.


I used to live in the past and future.  Never in the present.  It was how my brain was programmed.  It took many disagreements with my wife ((all because of my ego and male rightfulness I had)) and my dd, to let go of my ego.  Today, I live for today.  I will only make decisions for today.  Hard to plan for the future in Cali.  I;m very alert and on my toes watching everything.  Were all in this together and in some crazy ass times that make club soccer fun.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Last 15 posts here have gone off on a tangent.  This thread is for tips about the college recruiting process, not the youth soccer recruiting process.


----------



## Ellejustus

Simisoccerfan said:


> Last 15 posts here have gone off on a tangent.  This thread is for tips about the college recruiting process, not the youth soccer recruiting process.


True dat.  I will ban myself from this thread for 24 hours.  Good catch


----------



## EOTL

Simisoccerfan said:


> Last 15 posts here have gone off on a tangent.  This thread is for tips about the college recruiting process, not the youth soccer recruiting process.


Actually, for you it’s only 12 unless you unblocked me.

It also does relate to college recruiting. The kids we’re talking about are leaving for better opportunity, and that means better college opportunity. Simplifying somewhat, my position is that a kid absolutely should leave a team mid-season if that’s what it takes to improve their recruiting chances. The people on the other side of the argument think the kid should give up that opportunity to help their daughter win a trophy in 2nd or 3rd tier league.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Ellejustus said:


> True dat.  I will ban myself from this thread for 24 hours.  Good catch


 Nah, 2.4 minute ban is enough.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> Actually, for you it’s only 12 unless you unblocked me.
> 
> *It also does relate to college recruiting.* The kids we’re talking about are leaving for better opportunity, and that means better college opportunity. Simplifying somewhat, my position is that a kid absolutely should leave a team mid-season if that’s what it takes to improve their recruiting chances. The people on the other side of the argument think the kid should give up that opportunity to help their daughter win a trophy in 2nd or 3rd tier league.


On a second thought, I agree with you.  I was trying to be nice with Simi and after I wrote and hit send, I said what you said but it was in my mind.  I now take back my 24 hour ban.  Club recruiting is for the ultimate prize, college.  The two go hand and hand.  These are just Tips from EJ, Kicker, EOTL and a few others.  Their just tips too, so dont hate on the tipster.........


----------



## oh canada

Kicker4Life said:


> I can’t tell if you are agreeing or arguing....like I said, as long as there aren’t other issues that don’t include winning games.
> 
> The OP was about a coach who would call to recruit players from other teams.  If everything is fine with Coach, roster, environment, etc, you should honor your commitment and not just bail for the perceived greener pastures.


Agree that coaches shouldn't be recruiting other teams' players mid-season.  Desperate, very myopic (gotta win now), and disrespectful to the current team.  Makes the existing parents' crazy, territorial. paranoid and clicky.  But that's on the coach, not the player.  And it's widely known which clubs do this more than others (Blues, Surf), so parents going there should already know what they're getting into.  If that's the environment you want from your kids' soccer experience, then bon appetit.  And watch your back.

To blame the player/family is one of the themes clubs put out there to make players feel guilty and retain power/control.  Just like calling players "club hoppers" even though leagues, clubs, rules, keep changing every year for the past 5 years.  Nonsense.  We are paying customers.  And we're forced to pay 100% upfront 3-6 months prior to a new season beginning.  And throughout the year we pay not just with $$ but also time, a lot of time.  So yes, just like I will switch to Verizon from ATT before my contract expires if their service sucks, I have no problem with a player moving midseason if the club is jacking them around or their personal situation changes.  

Now, if the club is treating the player as promised and the player (more likely parents) are moving midseason primarily in the search of more W's, then that's definitely a sh**ty move by Mom and Dad.  So, context is key.


----------



## outside!

Kicker4Life said:


> I can’t tell if you are agreeing or arguing....like I said, as long as there aren’t other issues that don’t include winning games.
> 
> The OP was about a coach who would call to recruit players from other teams.  If everything is fine with Coach, roster, environment, etc, you should honor your commitment and not just bail for the perceived greener pastures.


Just for the record, none of the players called by Gandalf took his offer.


----------



## dk_b

EOTL said:


> The irony is that any club that tries to force a kid to do something that is not in their best interest is exactly the type of club they should bail on. If a kid is better served somewhere else, a club should happily let them go. It’s incredibly petty to expect that a 13 year old girl will pass up better opportunities for herself because it benefits you. In fact, claiming that a kid is leaving because she is chasing wins is incredibly disingenuous because, really, you’re the one chasing wins by trying to keep her somewhere she doesn’t want to be.


The rub is that clubs that recruit mid cycle are not always looking for anything that is in the targeted players best interest.  If they were, why didn't they just recruit when the window opened?  Why is it that mid-cycle is the time?  I said nothing about chasing wins so that may not be directed at me and I also acknowledge that there are times when a club should release a player but if one is teaching a child that there is no collective responsibility when you commit to a team and there is no willingness to abide by certain rules and norms, well then that person is parenting differently than I do.

One thing w/which I strongly agree with you is how clubs often try to convince players to stay when they are better off leaving. I think that happens all the time at big clubs and small clubs and can really interfere with what is "best" - whether "best" is defined by college opportunities or simply a fun, healthy activity while they are kids.  And if you are at a small club and that club has not discussed with specificity how that club serves your high-achieving player's interest or how another club might be better, then that club is NOT looking at your kid's interest.  When my daughter left her first club for another, I was on the BOD (I had other kids in that club) and I had a key coach refuse to talk to me for a year. It was clear that her needs were not going to be served by that club even as it was a great club for her development and a really good club for certain players.

Fast forward a couple of years and my younger two would occasionally play with a younger play as she'd play up a year as her "normal" team and up two (w/my kids) on occasion.  She was not a star when she played up 2 years but she contributed and you could see her ability (and she could not play w/her age group at our club; it would be a joke).  When I spoke to the mom about her daughter, I was very clear to her that she needed a larger platform if one of the goals was to reach her full potential as a soccer player.  I drew on the experience of my older kid. If she wanted to stick around for non-soccer reasons, she'd still progress as a player and stay with her community, her friends, etc. but her ability to be a focus at an elite level would be compromised.


----------



## EOTL

oh canada said:


> Agree that coaches shouldn't be recruiting other teams' players mid-season.  Desperate, very myopic (gotta win now), and disrespectful to the current team.  Makes the existing parents' crazy, territorial. paranoid and clicky.  But that's on the coach, not the player.  And it's widely known which clubs do this more than others (Blues, Surf), so parents going there should already know what they're getting into.  If that's the environment you want from your kids' soccer experience, then bon appetit.  And watch your back.
> 
> To blame the player/family is one of the themes clubs put out there to make players feel guilty and retain power/control.  Just like calling players "club hoppers" even though leagues, clubs, rules, keep changing every year for the past 5 years.  Nonsense.  We are paying customers.  And we're forced to pay 100% upfront 3-6 months prior to a new season beginning.  And throughout the year we pay not just with $$ but also time, a lot of time.  So yes, just like I will switch to Verizon from ATT before my contract expires if their service sucks, I have no problem with a player moving midseason if the club is jacking them around or their personal situation changes.
> 
> Now, if the club is treating the player as promised and the player (more likely parents) are moving midseason primarily in the search of more W's, then that's definitely a sh**ty move by Mom and Dad.  So, context is key.


Competing companies agreeing they won’t touch each other’s customers, or to an “orderly” transition process that significantly impedes customers from changing clubs, violates antitrust laws. It is so weird that people think there’s something so special about children playing a child’s game that justifies breaking antitrust laws. I can’t imagine anyone would disagree that Pepsi and Coke refusing to let restaurants change vendors except two weeks a year is bad. Or patients unable to change doctors except once a year. Or companies not hiring each others’ employees except in February because their co-workers really rely on them and it’s a big disruption if the transition isn’t “orderly”.  Or change preschools except during summer recess? I mean, those other preschoolers are really relying on your kids’ reading ability and epic social skills to prop up theirs, and also your tuition. Seriously, what is it about youth soccer that causes people to lose their freakin’ minds? Is the world going to end if little Sally moves from Podunk FC to Blues because it increases her chances of getting into UCLA? Why can’t anyone be happy for Sally?

This all smacks of a fake argument anyway.  I haven’t heard of a kid leaving mid-season who did not have a really good reason. Although I’m sure it happens occasionally, would an (illegal) agreement among competing clubs not to “poach” each others’ customers be more beneficial than letting a far greater number of kids switch clubs who do have a good reason, but that does not rise to the level of “abuse”, whatever that might mean to someone?


----------



## dk_b

EOTL said:


> This all smacks of a fake argument anyway.  I haven’t heard of a kid leaving mid-season who did not have a really good reason. Although I’m sure it happens occasionally, would an (illegal) agreement among competing clubs not to “poach” each others’ customers be more beneficial than letting a far greater number of kids switch clubs who do have a good reason, but that does not rise to the level of “abuse”, whatever that might mean to someone?


Our experiences differ and not based on what I have heard but based on what I have directly observed.  But I also think that the volume of clubs and players in SoCal does create more opportunities so perhaps it could be more fluid w/o the issues I have seen up here.

That said, I do wish that there was a greater openness about training with different clubs/teams.  I don't think kids should be limited to some defined open window b/c it becomes really difficult to check out different clubs. That used to happen in NorCal but then the rules changed and to comply, some clubs will require written permission from the other club's DOC (they are all supposed to require it).  A player's club should always be willing to say "yes" to a guest training opportunity and even a guest playing opportunity.  If they limit it, that's a good sign that, as @EOTL is suggesting, they are not considering the interests of your kid.  My older daughter guest played in tourneys with about half a dozen clubs (they needed a GK) and while she did move to one (though not to the team she guested with), it was just a great overall experience to play with different coaches and different players.


----------



## gotothebushes

ID CAMPS- You think schools who aren't playing in fall season ( Given some athletes are on campus) are actively trying to setup ID Camps right after the September 30th dead period or you think will wait for ID Camps in the Spring? the 2021/2022's would want more traction given there's now showcases coming soon. Are coaches actually just behind their desk waiting on emails and videos?


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> Competing companies agreeing they won’t touch each other’s customers, or to an “orderly” transition process that significantly impedes customers from changing clubs, violates antitrust laws. It is so weird that people think there’s something so special about children playing a child’s game that justifies breaking antitrust laws. I can’t imagine anyone would disagree that Pepsi and Coke refusing to let restaurants change vendors except two weeks a year is bad. Or patients unable to change doctors except once a year. Or companies not hiring each others’ employees except in February because their co-workers really rely on them and it’s a big disruption if the transition isn’t “orderly”.  Or change preschools except during summer recess? I mean, those other preschoolers are really relying on your kids’ reading ability and epic social skills to prop up theirs, and also your tuition. Seriously, what is it about youth soccer that causes people to lose their freakin’ minds? Is the world going to end if little Sally moves from Podunk FC to Blues because it increases her chances of getting into UCLA? Why can’t anyone be happy for Sally?
> 
> This all smacks of a fake argument anyway.  I haven’t heard of a kid leaving mid-season who did not have a really good reason. Although I’m sure it happens occasionally, would an (illegal) agreement among competing clubs not to “poach” each others’ customers be more beneficial than letting a far greater number of kids switch clubs who do have a good reason, but that does not rise to the level of “abuse”, whatever that might mean to someone?


EOTL is on fire today.  I agree again.  I felt like I was the worse person in the world for leaving for greener pastures ((Just Win Baby and Leave them all hanging)).   I felt like I was in The Firm and I couldn't leave.  I felt so trapped.  Plus, the Doc said if we dare leave it's all over........Let my people go!!!!   Tad was so nice to me about looking at other dealerships.  He just asked that you let him know and if we ask the right way, he will loan my goat out to the other dealerships.  Were both cool with each other today and the last I spoke to him I asked him, "did you know these dealerships were offering a free car, free oil change and maintenance and free lifetime gas as long as you stay at the dealership?  I dont like free.  You need a coach who will tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear.


----------



## Soccerfan2

gotothebushes said:


> ID CAMPS- You think schools who aren't playing in fall season ( Given some athletes are on campus) are actively trying to setup ID Camps right after the September 30th dead period or you think will wait for ID Camps in the Spring? the 2021/2022's would want more traction given there's now showcases coming soon. Are coaches actually just behind their desk waiting on emails and videos?


If classes aren’t in session and they aren’t having a fall season then they probably won’t be able to hold a camp on their campus. I would guess schools in that situation will wait until spring. 
It’s very likely that the dead period will get extended again to the end of Oct.
In general, schools will want to hold camps as soon as they are able to because the primary purpose is to make money.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

gotothebushes said:


> ID CAMPS- You think schools who aren't playing in fall season ( Given some athletes are on campus) are actively trying to setup ID Camps right after the September 30th dead period or you think will wait for ID Camps in the Spring? the 2021/2022's would want more traction given there's now showcases coming soon. Are coaches actually just behind their desk waiting on emails and videos?


All college players have been given an extra year of eligibility. That gives coaches an extra year of players.  Not a lot of need of college Id camps right now.  Coaches will need less players for the next three years.


----------



## 310soccer

Simisoccerfan said:


> All college players have been given an extra year of eligibility. That gives coaches an extra year of players.  Not a lot of need of college Id camps right now.  Coaches will need less players for the next three years.


Sounds about right! My daughter have been in talks with some coaches and there telling us there will no youth soccer played in California this year and expected the dead period to extend past October.


----------



## 310soccer

Simisoccerfan said:


> TDS rankings are a bit of a joke along with their college recruiting class rankings that are based on the player rankings.  First if your player is not called to the National Team, they need a coach or club that cares about TDS and is willing to advocate to them.  You can get ranked if you play in a TDS event and you happen to have a scout evaluation done.   One star and two star ratings mean they have not seen you or your club is not actively advocating.   After the first 15 or 20 kids it is impossible to get it right.  We all know players that have had a high rating and they are not even one of the better players on their club team.
> 
> Personally, I would advise any kid trying to get recruited to never mention their ranking to a coach.  Coaches don't care about this crap.  They care about the quality of the team you are on, putting their eyes on your to see how good you are, and what their specific needs are at the time.  Better yet, find a team with a coach who has college connections and is willing to talk to college coaches about your kid.


TDS ranking tried to do a good job this year ranking players given the mess that was made with DA folding and DA teams going to ECNL/ECRL. Now with the DA folding, US Soccer is implementing  a new structure and will start from scratch with 2004/2005/2006 age groups. All zoom calls will soon end with current YNT player and all new scouts will be hired to select the next pool of players. Coaches will have no input anymore. Scouts will go to games, identify players and the leave. Best of luck!


----------



## Giesbock

Sounds reasonable and sounds like you have pretty specific knowledge.  Thanks for the info


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> Sounds reasonable and sounds like you have pretty specific knowledge.  Thanks for the info


I'm always here for you bro


----------



## Giesbock

EJ=310=new wave=soccer helper ...  That’s an awesome array of hats you got on!


----------



## Giesbock

To MAPS and all the others who have contributed to this discussion: Thank You.  

We’ve been trying to put these suggestions to work and are starting to see some interest from some great college programs.

For a totally unheralded player with no championship play and more L’s than W’s in her record, we’re feeling pretty good.

But time will tell. Long way to go...


----------



## Kicker4Life

Giesbock said:


> To MAPS and all the others who have contributed to this discussion: Thank You.
> 
> We’ve been trying to put these suggestions to work and are starting to see some interest from some great college programs.
> 
> For a totally unheralded player with no championship play and more L’s than W’s in her record, we’re feeling pretty good.
> 
> But time will tell. Long way to go...


I know it’s a bit of a cliché, but Coaches recruit players not teams so the W’s and L’s don’t mean much in the grand scheme of things. 

Good Luck to your DD!


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> I know it’s a bit of a cliché,* but Coaches recruit players not teams so the W’s and L’s don’t mean much in the grand scheme of things.*
> 
> Good Luck to your DD!


That is so true.  If all you really care about is the club soccer biz growing and getting a college deal, I agree.  However, many kids like to WIN too and that means more to them then development in the grand scheme of things.  Scheme is a good choice of words Kicker.  Lot's of scheme's going on in the GDA league for three years.  Just win baby!!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> EJ=310=new wave=soccer helper ...  That’s an awesome array of hats you got on!


I'm putting EJ down for good.  New Wave Dave and Soccer Helper had their purpose.  I have no idea who 310 is.  I will come back today with a new Avatar to start fresh.  We all need a fresh start or second chance or a mulligan.  I learned what life is all about now.


----------



## Ellejustus

*Throwback Thursday/EJ Retires*​
Dear forum friends,
it's time for Ellejustus to retire from social media.  So many reasons why it's time and just feels it's best to end. I got all my answers I was looking for and some.  It all started with a dream.  Me and the wife dreamed and planned for 6 kids.  Then after my first born son, we dreamed to have 4 kids. Then we had my DD and we said, "two is enough." The EJ's had big dreams and in 2017 it was coming together for our family.  Work, School, Church and Soccer.  The dream was coming alive.  Everything Elle and Justus worked for they accomplished.  However,* life is not fare* and it did a number on all of us.  As EJ parts ways with all of you, we wish you all the best.  I know so many want something from soccer and I hope you find it for your kids.  My DD wanted to win!!!  She won Surf Cup, State Cup, FWR Cup and a National Championship and so many others.  SW ECNL is a goal and so is CIF.  She had some personal goals and dreams but didnt cut the mustard and fell short.  In life, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.  My wife and dd worked hard to save money so we could pay to play in Seattle and Texas in 2017.  I wont share, but our family got hit with a big bomb on my biz when we were in Texas for natty.  I couldn;t tell my dd but I did tell my son and wife and it was so hard to put on a happy face.  It was a kick to my "balls in life" and I was down for the count.  I got my ass back up and three years later, were all doing better   This last pic I will ever post on here is my favorite when it comes to soccer.  The sacrifice my little soccer player and her teammates put in to win, was insane. Every single girl worked hard to win and that is winning.  My wife gave up a lot of things woman like to do so we could afford these two back to back trips.  I will be back as another Avatar.  EJ is out!!!!!


----------



## outside!

Great picture!


----------



## notintheface

Ellejustus said:


> I will be back as another Avatar.


Yeah. We know.


----------



## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> All college players have been given an extra year of eligibility. That gives coaches an extra year of players.  Not a lot of need of college Id camps right now.  Coaches will need less players for the next three years.


What percentage of players do you think will actually take that extra year of eligibility?


----------



## CaliKlines

Justafan said:


> What percentage of players do you think will actually take that extra year of eligibility?


Depends on the offer from the school.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Justafan said:


> What percentage of players do you think will actually take that extra year of eligibility?


My dd said that they have 6 seniors (including redshirt juniors) and all have said they will come back for a semester if there is a season.


----------



## Lifeisnotfare

I refuse to get used to it, sorry Bill.  TGIF!!!!


----------



## Giesbock

Hmm. Bill Gates spells the word “Fair” differently than you do...??  

Maybe the deeper meaning in your name is to-say that “life’s not a Renaissance Faire?

. Glad you’re back


----------



## Lifeisnotfare

Giesbock said:


> Hmm. Bill Gates spells the word “Fair” differently than you do...??
> 
> Maybe the deeper meaning in your name is to-say that “life’s not a Renaissance Faire?
> 
> . Glad you’re back


'Fair' and 'fare' are homophones, words that sound alike but have different spelling. *'Fair'* is an adjective to describe good-looking, mild or* something that is equal and just*. ... *'Fare'* is a verb and a noun used to tell how something did or the *price of something*, like a bus tour airline ticket or club soccer in Socal.


----------



## dad4

Isn't not fair that the Renaissance Faire fare fares fairly poorly in taste tests.


----------



## Giesbock

It’s actually fairly true that ren faire fare will make its consumer fare poorly a fairly short time after you’ve paid the fare, even if at the time that you paid the fare it seemed like a fair price and there was a fair expectation of the fare tasting good. ???

i guess signing up for club soccer, having the season cancelled, not getting any $ back kinda goes down like Renaissance faire fare...


----------



## Lifeisnotfare

Giesbock said:


> It’s actually fairly true that ren faire fare will make its consumer fare poorly a fairly short time after you’ve paid the fare, even if at the time that you paid the fare it seemed like a fair price and there was a fair expectation of the fare tasting good. ???
> 
> i guess signing up for club soccer, having the season cancelled, not getting any $ back kinda goes down like Renaissance faire fare...


Pay the fare at the fair rate and get treated unfairly?  It's the way the game of life was being played in the old days.  A new game is going to be played and it will be a game of rules that everyone has to follow or they can;t play.  It's the fairest way to go and no one will have to pay an unfair, fare!!!   All one needs to do is play fair and be fair in the new no fare life   Envy and jealously will not be allowed in the game.


----------



## gotothebushes

Is it true that the SEC, ACC and Big 12 schools are looking into having ID Camps starting  October/ November?


----------



## MacDre

gotothebushes said:


> Is it true that the SEC, ACC and Big 12 schools are looking into having ID Camps starting  October/ November?


I’ll email Nathan at FSU and see if I can get an update.  But if I remember correctly in June Nathan sent out a notice to be on the lookout for Fall ID camps possibly in conjunction with home games.


----------



## MacDre

gotothebushes said:


> Is it true that the SEC, ACC and Big 12 schools are looking into having ID Camps starting  October/ November?


I hope this email finds you safe and healthy. I wanted to send an update to our subscriber list about our camps here at FSU.

Currently the NCAA is in a dead period which prohibits any camps with prospect age players (2020, 2021,2022, 2023). The dead period was extended last week until August 31st.* Our hope is to have ID camps this fall around some of our home games if the NCAA and campus allows us to host them*.


----------



## 310soccer

MacDre said:


> I hope this email finds you safe and healthy. I wanted to send an update to our subscriber list about our camps here at FSU.
> 
> Currently the NCAA is in a dead period which prohibits any camps with prospect age players (2020, 2021,2022, 2023). The dead period was extended last week until August 31st.* Our hope is to have ID camps this fall around some of our home games if the NCAA and campus allows us to host them*.


 I believe the dead period has been extended past August 31st. More like September 31st as of now. Maybe October 31st in the next few days.


----------



## 310soccer

MacDre said:


> I hope this email finds you safe and healthy. I wanted to send an update to our subscriber list about our camps here at FSU.
> 
> Currently the NCAA is in a dead period which prohibits any camps with prospect age players (2020, 2021,2022, 2023). The dead period was extended last week until August 31st.* Our hope is to have ID camps this fall around some of our home games if the NCAA and campus allows us to host them*.


Even if colleges are not allowed, they will attend. Soccers tournaments have been happening in the South/Northeast. And although there's a freeze on college scouting, reports are the scouts are there. They just aren't wearing their school logo.


----------



## Giesbock

Doesn’t the restriction only apply to D1 schools?


----------



## Soccerfan2

Giesbock said:


> Doesn’t the restriction only apply to D1 schools?


The dead period through 9/30 (likely to be extended to 10/31) is just D1.  
D2 is quiet until 8/31.  Normal D2 recruiting can resume on 9/1.


----------



## Sandypk

Soccerfan2 said:


> The dead period through 9/30 (likely to be extended to 10/31) is just D1.
> D2 is quiet until 8/31.  Normal D2 recruiting can resume on 9/1.


Isn’t the dead period only for in-person visits and coaches observing games, like school tours and officials or coaches going to watch a tournament? Phone calls, emails, texts, and zoom meetings are all ok right now during the dead period.  Or are you guys just talking about coaches going to watch games, which there aren’t any games to watch in SoCal anyway.  So, why does extending the dead period even matter to anyone?  Or does dead period mean no contact at all?


----------



## Soccerfan2

Sandypk said:


> Isn’t the dead period only for in-person visits and coaches observing games, like school tours and officials or coaches going to watch a tournament? Phone calls, emails, texts, and zoom meetings are all ok right now during the dead period.  Or are you guys just talking about coaches going to watch games, which there aren’t any games to watch in SoCal anyway.  So, why does extending the dead period even matter to anyone?  Or does dead period mean no contact at all?


I was just answering someone’s question. Yes, you are correct that players can still call, email, text and zoom. 
To answer your question, a D1 dead period extension would impact a player’s ability to take official visits. For those of us in California and other states where kids can’t play yet, that’s about it.


----------



## Sandypk

Soccerfan2 said:


> I was just answering someone’s question. Yes, you are correct that players can still call, email, text and zoom.
> To answer your question, a D1 dead period extension would impact a player’s ability to take official visits. For those of us in California and other states where kids can’t play yet, that’s about it.


Thanks!


----------



## Giesbock

Second that!  Appreciate the clarification


----------



## Lifeisnotfare

Giesbock said:


> Second that!  Appreciate the clarification


No worries bro.  Some folks think I have all these avatars and I play my 9 different personalities through avatars.  I'm off all my meds now too, so I'm very unpredictable today Giesbock.  For the 100th time, EJ is no longer and is gone for good.  I hope that clarify things for you and others


----------



## Kicker4Life

Lifeisnotfare said:


> No worries bro.  Some folks think I have all these avatars and I play my 9 different personalities through avatars.  I'm off all my meds now too, so I'm very unpredictable today Giesbock.  For the 100th time, EJ is no longer and is gone for good.  I hope that clarify things for you and others


Same flavor, different label....


----------



## Sandypk

Lifeisnotfare said:


> No worries bro.  Some folks think I have all these avatars and I play my 9 different personalities through avatars.  I'm off all my meds now too, so I'm very unpredictable today Giesbock.  For the 100th time, EJ is no longer and is gone for good.  I hope that clarify things for you and others


So, now I will just ignore you too.


----------



## gotothebushes

Sandypk said:


> So, now I will just ignore you too.


@Sandypk he means well! Take it easy but it could be worse with other posters on here.


----------



## Sandypk

gotothebushes said:


> @Sandypk he means well! Take it easy but it could be worse with other posters on here.


I have them on ignore too.


----------



## Giesbock

Whew...whiplashed again. Every time I ask some dumb question or ask for some legit advice or comment, it turns on its head and drops into the nearest rabbit hole!  

Look, my younger brother is certifiably mentally ill.

If you’re joking about going on or off your meds, I don’t appreciate that cause needing meds ain’t a joke.

if on the other hand you’re seriously off meds, I suggest you either refill the prescription or get time with your doc.

Dinkin around an in-line forum can’t be what’s best for you.

this morning I took a visit back to early Feb 2020 before Covid joined us.  It was so cool to read about the ins and outs of this team and who was going to move to which team.  

Hope we can get back to that.
Take it easy.


----------



## gotothebushes

Giesbock said:


> Whew...whiplashed again. Every time I ask some dumb question or ask for some legit advice or comment, it turns on its head and drops into the nearest rabbit hole!
> 
> Look, my younger brother is certifiably mentally ill.
> 
> If you’re joking about going on or off your meds, I don’t appreciate that cause needing meds ain’t a joke.
> 
> if on the other hand you’re seriously off meds, I suggest you either refill the prescription or get time with your doc.
> 
> Dinkin around an in-line forum can’t be what’s best for you.
> 
> this morning I took a visit back to early Feb 2020 before Covid joined us.  It was so cool to read about the ins and outs of this team and who was going to move to which team.
> 
> Hope we can get back to that.
> Take it easy.


Tell me about it. Can wait for things to get back to a sort of new normal.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> That is 100% true.  That's how you keep winning.  Drop the bottom 20% every year.  He's super up front about that as well.  He will not drop a player during the season or add a player during the season unless they moved into town.  That was my two year experience.  Tad played it super fair.  I will look for my one year deal we signed with the great Tad.  You also saw him and the Gaffer looking at next years potential recruits at other games.  I would try and be his friend after games and I'm like, "where you going coach ((call me Tad please he would say)), I'm watching Slammers vs Legends. He had his note cards out too. Now my dd is not the recruited anymore.  She has to earn her spot and wont find out until after the season.  I told my dd that Tad is watching so and so, so you better work your ass off or your DD is getting cut.....lol.  My dd loved that challenge.  Some girls, no, they want promises of development and leave it up to the club and coach to make them great.  Tad never promised more then one year Outside. Is he supposed to promise them a rose garden for 7 years?  No promises except one and done or try and not get cut.


You just totally contradicted yourself.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Lifeisnotfare said:


> I refuse to get used to it, sorry Bill.  TGIF!!!!
> 
> View attachment 8838


A meme with a quote... and you still fucking spelled it incorrectly.


----------



## Lifeisnotfare

The Outlaw said:


> A meme with a quote... and you still fucking spelled it incorrectly.


Perceptions are what you make them dumb dumb.  Suspended two times for 14 days and all you have is this?  Keep it up and you will be gone forever.  Also, bad example to your DD dude.  Follow the rules first and then come talk to me.  Messy is now suspended 7 days and EOTL has lost his mind.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Lifeisnotfare said:


> Perceptions are what you make them dumb dumb.  Suspended two times for 14 days and all you have is this?  Keep it up and you will be gone forever.  Also, bad example to your DD dude.  Follow the rules first and then come talk to me.  Messy is now suspended 7 days and EOTL has lost his mind.


Well, if you could restrain your impulses to mouth off to me when I return, perhaps I'd leave you alone.  Twice now, you couldn't.


----------



## Lifeisnotfare

The Outlaw said:


> Well, if you could restrain your impulses to mouth off to me when I return, perhaps I'd leave you alone.  Twice now, you couldn't.


I forgot about you until you came back today and I was the only one to welcome you back.  Be nice dummy.  You know if I call you stupid, it's because you are.  I'm stupid too so welcome to the club dummy.  Were all a bunch of miss fits who get a second chance.  Smack talk is all good with me you stupid soccer dad.  Get a hold of yourself and start being normal.  My God Outlaw, stop trying to be right all the time.  BTW, when is your team coming down South to ball?


----------



## Giesbock

Grumbly welcome back outlaw! What a gang of soccer friends you can claim to have!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Giesbock said:


> Grumbly welcome back outlaw! What a gang of soccer friends you can claim to have!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Lifeisnotfare said:


> I forgot about you until you came back today and I was the only one to welcome you back.  Be nice dummy.  You know if I call you stupid, it's because you are.  I'm stupid too so welcome to the club dummy.  Were all a bunch of miss fits who get a second chance.  Smack talk is all good with me you stupid soccer dad.  Get a hold of yourself and start being normal.  My God Outlaw, stop trying to be right all the time.  BTW, when is your team coming down South to ball?


I'm inclined to think your goat is a little older than mine.  We're just getting into the recruiting game and I believe you're in the middle or on the way out of yours.  Maybe Surf but, at this point, "South" may have to be Vegas.


----------



## gotothebushes

So is it official women's soccer dead period has been moved to Oct 31st?


----------



## SWHPH

gotothebushes said:


> So is it official women's soccer dead period has been moved to Oct 31st?


I haven't heard that yet ...


----------



## Giesbock

Not sure if MAP is still available for ideas, suggestions about recruiting- or maybe others with experience- 
With a complete lack of GAME footage (other than some sideline highlights I’ve got) are coaches at all interested in seeing training? Or are we SOL till next season?


----------



## LASTMAN14

Giesbock said:


> Not sure if MAP is still available for ideas, suggestions about recruiting- or maybe others with experience-
> With a complete lack of GAME footage (other than some sideline highlights I’ve got) are coaches at all interested in seeing training? Or are we SOL till next season?


I would PM MAP. I’m sure he reads a bit and would see you were trying to contact him.


----------



## NorCal

Giesbock said:


> Not sure if MAP is still available for ideas, suggestions about recruiting- or maybe others with experience-
> With a complete lack of GAME footage (other than some sideline highlights I’ve got) are coaches at all interested in seeing training? Or are we SOL till next season?



Just sent you a PM


----------



## Giesbock

NorCal said:


> Just sent you a PM


Just saw it and replied


----------



## gotothebushes

NorCal said:


> Just sent you a PM


What about me Norcal? LOL


----------



## gotothebushes

Q for anyone on here to be helpful - when the schools have 14 scholarships, is that tuition plus room/board?  So a school that has tuition of $50k and $20k for room, then do they have $70k to hand out so they could give $35k to two different kids? Or do they only have the $50k to hand out.


----------



## Mystery Train

gotothebushes said:


> Q for anyone on here to be helpful - when the schools have 14 scholarships, is that tuition plus room/board?  So a school that has tuition of $50k and $20k for room, then do they have $70k to hand out so they could give $35k to two different kids? Or do they only have the $50k to hand out.


My understanding is that their scholarship budget is based on tuition only.  When people talk about "full ride" it's almost never truly "full ride" the way we parents imagine it.  They do have the ability to award dollar amounts, so coaches can get creative and cover things in addition to tuition.  Books, room and board, etc.  But the dollar amount when saying we have "x scholarships" available, is based on tuition cost.  If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone with more knowledge here will correct me.


----------



## Dubs

gotothebushes said:


> Q for anyone on here to be helpful - when the schools have 14 scholarships, is that tuition plus room/board?  So a school that has tuition of $50k and $20k for room, then do they have $70k to hand out so they could give $35k to two different kids? Or do they only have the $50k to hand out.


If you're in serious talks and offers are being floated, then you will need to make sure you hear the phrase "total cost of attendance".  This means the whole nugget (room/board and tuition).  It is true that 100% is very rarely given, but make sure that whatever the percetage you're agreeing to is under the umbrella of total cost of attendance, in terms of the language being used for the offer.  Hope this helps.


----------



## espola

Mystery Train said:


> My understanding is that their scholarship budget is based on tuition only.  When people talk about "full ride" it's almost never truly "full ride" the way we parents imagine it.  They do have the ability to award dollar amounts, so coaches can get creative and cover things in addition to tuition.  Books, room and board, etc.  But the dollar amount when saying we have "x scholarships" available, is based on tuition cost.  If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone with more knowledge here will correct me.


NCAA allows the limited number of scholarships to be computed against the full cost to be borne otherwise by the student or family including room and board, mandatory fees, and some incidental expenses.  Any school's budget may be limited to a lower amount than this, and it may be sliced up any way the coach and athletic director want it.   student-athlete and his family do not usually know what the awards for others in the program might have been (except by talk amongst the teammates).  You can get some information on athletic department expenditures from the public schools, but very little from the big private schools unless they are just bragging.


----------



## gotothebushes

Thanks -- that's all helpful. I have a different question. 

I was speaking with a friend who is a college coach (not soccer, another non-headcout sport) at a major D1 university.  He said that you can't mix academic aid and sports scholarships.  The reason for this is the NCAA doesn't want scholarships getting handed to athletes with a wink and a nod to circumvent the scholarship caps.  Previously, I had heard it was possible to get academic/merit-based aid in addition to the scholarships.  Anyone have experience with this??


----------



## Soccerfan2

gotothebushes said:


> Q for anyone on here to be helpful - when the schools have 14 scholarships, is that tuition plus room/board?  So a school that has tuition of $50k and $20k for room, then do they have $70k to hand out so they could give $35k to two different kids? Or do they only have the $50k to hand out.


In theory, based on your scenario they have $70k to give. In equivalency sports, the max number of scholarships is intended to mean full scholarships. For women’s soccer, that’s 14 full cost of attendance (room/board, fees, books, tuition) for fully funded programs. However, not every program is fully funded, so the actual amount of money a coach has to give out varies by school even amongst D1 women’s soccer programs. That gets further complicated by the amount of academic aid students on athletic scholarship might be receiving, because there is a max number of counters as well as a max number of scholarships, and academic money given to scholarship athletes usually counts against the scholarship limit (this is recently changed because of covid). Crystal clear, right?


----------



## Mystery Train

gotothebushes said:


> Thanks -- that's all helpful. I have a different question.
> 
> I was speaking with a friend who is a college coach (not soccer, another non-headcout sport) at a major D1 university.  He said that you can't mix academic aid and sports scholarships.  The reason for this is the NCAA doesn't want scholarships getting handed to athletes with a wink and a nod to circumvent the scholarship caps.  Previously, I had heard it was possible to get academic/merit-based aid in addition to the scholarships.  Anyone have experience with this??


We were told that is true for certain (most?) schools/university systems.  However, it's different when you're talking private vs. state, and NAIA as well, which does not operate under the NCAA umbrella.  I *think* it's different for private schools, where they can have a mix?  Or maybe the other way around?  It's been a couple of years now since those conversations with coaches, and I've tried to erase most of that experience from memory. lol


----------



## espola

Mystery Train said:


> We were told that is true for certain (most?) schools/university systems.  However, it's different when you're talking private vs. state, and NAIA as well, which does not operate under the NCAA umbrella.  I *think* it's different for private schools, where they can have a mix?  Or maybe the other way around?  It's been a couple of years now since those conversations with coaches, and I've tried to erase most of that experience from memory. lol


A simple view that was true once, and may not be any more -- If there is NY athletic dept money awarded, then the total of all scholarships, grants, aetc cannot exceed the total cost of attendance.


----------



## crush

espola said:


> A simple view that was true once, and may not be any more -- If there is NY athletic dept money awarded, then the total of all scholarships, grants, aetc cannot exceed the total cost of attendance.


Hey Espola, I have a soccer question or two for you or your boy in regards to todays college life for a recruit.  Would you have your son wait until signing day his Sr year and make the Big Decision then, in front of High School friends?  Also, would you want him to take three official visits and meet the coach and team and all that important stuff before verbal?  I'm curious what Espola would say, thanks


----------



## Simisoccerfan

gotothebushes said:


> Thanks -- that's all helpful. I have a different question.
> 
> I was speaking with a friend who is a college coach (not soccer, another non-headcout sport) at a major D1 university.  He said that you can't mix academic aid and sports scholarships.  The reason for this is the NCAA doesn't want scholarships getting handed to athletes with a wink and a nod to circumvent the scholarship caps.  Previously, I had heard it was possible to get academic/merit-based aid in addition to the scholarships.  Anyone have experience with this??


My daughter has both an athletic scholarship and an academic scholarship and she goes to a public D1 school.  They are completely independent and I am not sure the coach knows about the academic scholarship nor did those rewarding that scholarship knew she was an athlete.  The only place this comes together is in her financial statements.   Right now this is slightly less than a full ride but if it was more my understanding is that the school would withhold anything more than the 100%.


----------



## gotothebushes

Simisoccerfan said:


> My daughter has both an athletic scholarship and an academic scholarship and she goes to a public D1 school.  They are completely independent and I am not sure the coach knows about the academic scholarship nor did those rewarding that scholarship knew she was an athlete.  The only place this comes together is in her financial statements.   Right now this is slightly less than a full ride but if it was more my understanding is that the school would withhold anything more than the 100%.


 Thanks Simi! I believe private schools is a bit different!


----------



## GT45

gotothebushes said:


> Thanks -- that's all helpful. I have a different question.
> 
> I was speaking with a friend who is a college coach (not soccer, another non-headcout sport) at a major D1 university.  He said that you can't mix academic aid and sports scholarships.  The reason for this is the NCAA doesn't want scholarships getting handed to athletes with a wink and a nod to circumvent the scholarship caps.  Previously, I had heard it was possible to get academic/merit-based aid in addition to the scholarships.  Anyone have experience with this??


You can absolutely combine academic and athletic aid, and only the athletic aid counts against the soccer program. Most kids are on some combination. The key in receiving any aid outside of that awarded by the soccer program is that it is not based on athletic ability. So if a prospect earns the academic scholarship by meeting its academic criteria like any other regular student, they can receive it in addition to any athletic scholarship offered.


----------



## happy9

GT45 said:


> You can absolutely combine academic and athletic aid, and only the athletic aid counts against the soccer program. Most kids are on some combination. The key in receiving any aid outside of that awarded by the soccer program is that it is not based on athletic ability. So if a prospect earns the academic scholarship by meeting its academic criteria like any other regular student, they can receive it in addition to any athletic scholarship offered.


This is probably the most effective way to stretch your scholarship dollars, especially for boys.  Crafty and seasoned coaches will speak to this during the recruiting process.  When speaking to coaches, ensure they break down the dollars by bucket.  We really didn't see a difference between public and private schools (and I'm no expert).


----------



## Overlap

gotothebushes said:


> Thanks Simi! I believe private schools is a bit different!


Yes, private schools are a bit different, I will say to everyone, *GRADES MAKE A DIFFERENCE!* We tried to tell both our kids that over the years. Our now Senior was recruited to play at multiple schools and picked a D3 in Upstate NY, (committed end of her Jr. year), we thought her "Merit" scholarship was pretty good and really had no idea what was "good" at that point, her grades were fair (3.4) however, she received what would be close to a 2/3 tuition with everything included (tuition, housing), at would would be the cost of a California State school. Our youngest was recruited to play at the same school, now a Soph. and her grades were 4.0 at the time, her "Merit" scholarship was *A LOT* more then our oldest daughter, her total package is less than a State California school, both have made the Dean's List every year and are having a blast, yes, even with missing a season due to Covid. Your kids need to pick a school they're going to love, even if they don't play soccer as most only play on average 1.5 years due to injury or whatever, getting a great education should be their top priority unless they think they're going to play pro and that percentage of players that make it there drops to less than 1% of the total players, last I checked NCAA, only 3% even play on from club to the college level. I'm really glad both attended the same school, we saved a bunch of money and both played right away rather than watching the first few seasons. Best of luck to whatever schools they pick! (*FYI - It's weird watching them play on the computer or flying across the country to see them play so, enjoy it while you can!)


----------



## gotothebushes

Overlap said:


> Yes, private schools are a bit different, I will say to everyone, *GRADES MAKE A DIFFERENCE!* We tried to tell both our kids that over the years. Our now Senior was recruited to play at multiple schools and picked a D3 in Upstate NY, (committed end of her Jr. year), we thought her "Merit" scholarship was pretty good and really had no idea what was "good" at that point, her grades were fair (3.4) however, she received what would be close to a 2/3 tuition with everything included (tuition, housing), at would would be the cost of a California State school. Our youngest was recruited to play at the same school, now a Soph. and her grades were 4.0 at the time, her "Merit" scholarship was *A LOT* more then our oldest daughter, her total package is less than a State California school, both have made the Dean's List every year and are having a blast, yes, even with missing a season due to Covid. Your kids need to pick a school they're going to love, even if they don't play soccer as most only play on average 1.5 years due to injury or whatever, getting a great education should be their top priority unless they think they're going to play pro and that percentage of players that make it there drops to less than 1% of the total players, last I checked NCAA, only 3% even play on from club to the college level. I'm really glad both attended the same school, we saved a bunch of money and both played right away rather than watching the first few seasons. Best of luck to whatever schools they pick! (*FYI - It's weird watching them play on the computer or flying across the country to see them play so, enjoy it while you can!)


Thanks Overlap. Very helpful. Glad your daughters are thriving. Best of luck for them because it goes super fast.


----------



## Overlap

gotothebushes said:


> Thanks Overlap. Very helpful. Glad your daughters are thriving. Best of luck for them because it goes super fast.


Way too fast! I can't believe our oldest is done and now going to Grad school....that went really fast


----------



## Zoro

Overlap said:


> Yes, private schools are a bit different, I will say to everyone, *GRADES MAKE A DIFFERENCE!* ...


To a degree.  As do test scores, to a degree.  Both are bars that must be met.  Once met, does not seem to matter much how far over that bar they are.  DD used soccer to get into great school.  Son used cycling to get into a great school.  Their grades, were very different.  They were both over the bar and that was all that mattered.  In the end, we paid a lot for DD and son got paid.  Both were encouraged to excel in sports over academics.  NO regrets at all.  Son buying 2nd house (without involving parents @ 22 partnering with DD).  Both know what beast mode is.   Grades are important, but just one of those things.  Soccer ability likely matters more.


----------



## Zoro

gotothebushes said:


> Q for anyone on here to be helpful - when the schools have 14 scholarships, is that tuition plus room/board?  So a school that has tuition of $50k and $20k for room, then do they have $70k to hand out so they could give $35k to two different kids? Or do they only have the $50k to hand out.


My understanding is title IX is for full tuition equivalents, so does not include room/board/food.
So they have $50K X 14 anyway they want.
  It depends on the coach and depends on the school how they divide that up.  It is rare (likely never - I just don't know for certain) to have all that going to 14 players.  If a player is eligible for financial aid elsewhere they might get less soccer money (or financial aid + soccer money = full tuition) or financial aid can go to room/board.  The fancier schools tend to have larger rosters and players take less to be there while a not-so-fancy school may have a smaller roster where players get most expenses covered along with academic aid while the fancier schools tend not to give any academic aid.   You will hear folks say the kid got a full ride academic scholarship at some Ivy when the Ivy's post they do not give merit scholarships.  They might also give up to full scholarships for ethnicities so always look for those too if you are not trying to get a white kid in.


----------



## espola

gotothebushes said:


> Q for anyone on here to be helpful - when the schools have 14 scholarships, is that tuition plus room/board?  So a school that has tuition of $50k and $20k for room, then do they have $70k to hand out so they could give $35k to two different kids? Or do they only have the $50k to hand out.


NCAA says "Full scholarships cover tuition and fees, room, board and course-related books."  That's the good news.  The bad news is soccer players almost never get a full scholarship.  The coach and AD decide how to divide up the available money among several players.  And many schools don't budget the full 14x amount due to other financial constraints within the school.









						Scholarships
					

Scholarships




					www.ncaa.org


----------



## Zen

Zoro said:


> My understanding is title IX is for full tuition equivalents, so does not include room/board/food.
> So they have $50K X 14 anyway they want.
> It depends on the coach and depends on the school how they divide that up.  It is rare (likely never - I just don't know for certain) to have all that going to 14 players.  If a player is eligible for financial aid elsewhere they might get less soccer money (or financial aid + soccer money = full tuition) or financial aid can go to room/board.  The fancier schools tend to have larger rosters and players take less to be there while a not-so-fancy school may have a smaller roster where players get most expenses covered along with academic aid while the fancier schools tend not to give any academic aid.   You will hear folks say the kid got a full ride academic scholarship at some Ivy when the Ivy's post they do not give merit scholarships.  They might also give up to full scholarships for ethnicities so always look for those too if you are not trying to get a white kid in.


Schools can offer Total cost of attendance which includes room/board/food...which translates to $3-6K in your pocket if the school decides to go there.  Most players don't get that.  Coaches opt to stretch their budget across many players.


----------



## GT45

A full scholarship consists of tuition, fees, room and board, and books. Some of the wealthier schools also pay an additional cost of attendance stipend. The cost of attendance stipend is newer (in the past few years).

If we are talking about head count sports like football and basketball, a full scholarship at Ohio State would include all of the above. A full scholarship at a lower to mid-major program would include tuition, fees, room and board, and books, but not likely the cost of attendance stipend.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Zen said:


> Schools can offer Total cost of attendance which includes room/board/food...which translates to $3-6K in your pocket if the school decides to go there.  Most players don't get that.  Coaches opt to stretch their budget across many players.


If a school or a sport at a school pays total cost of attendance it is pro-rated at the rate of the scholarship.  So if you are on a 50% scholarship you get 50% of it.


----------



## Publius

Overlap said:


> Yes, private schools are a bit different, I will say to everyone, *GRADES MAKE A DIFFERENCE!* We tried to tell both our kids that over the years. Our now Senior was recruited to play at multiple schools and picked a D3 in Upstate NY, (committed end of her Jr. year), we thought her "Merit" scholarship was pretty good and really had no idea what was "good" at that point, her grades were fair (3.4) however, she received what would be close to a 2/3 tuition with everything included (tuition, housing), at would would be the cost of a California State school. Our youngest was recruited to play at the same school, now a Soph. and her grades were 4.0 at the time, her "Merit" scholarship was *A LOT* more then our oldest daughter, her total package is less than a State California school, both have made the Dean's List every year and are having a blast, yes, even with missing a season due to Covid. Your kids need to pick a school they're going to love, even if they don't play soccer as most only play on average 1.5 years due to injury or whatever, getting a great education should be their top priority unless they think they're going to play pro and that percentage of players that make it there drops to less than 1% of the total players, last I checked NCAA, only 3% even play on from club to the college level. I'm really glad both attended the same school, we saved a bunch of money and both played right away rather than watching the first few seasons. Best of luck to whatever schools they pick! (*FYI - It's weird watching them play on the computer or flying across the country to see them play so, enjoy it while you can!)


How does timing on merit scholarship for athletes work relative to recruiting/application timing?  Are schools essentially doing a preread on academic quals prior to applications even being submitted?  Ado the coaches seem to have a meaningful hand in that process?  Thanks for any insight.


----------



## GT45

Coaches generally have a very good idea of what academic grades/test scores will qualify for academic scholarships at their school. They cannot have a hand in the prospect being awarded that academic money, or it would be considered based in part on their athletic ability and it would then count against the team's athletic aid. The coach could say, we offer x amount in athletic aid for you, and based on your current scores (assuming you keep your grades at their current marks) you will likely qualify for x amount in academic aid.


----------



## Overlap

Publius said:


> How does timing on merit scholarship for athletes work relative to recruiting/application timing?  Are schools essentially doing a preread on academic quals prior to applications even being submitted?  Ado the coaches seem to have a meaningful hand in that process?  Thanks for any insight.


It's very late, they'll be looking for your DD's last GPA prior to the offer. I can only speak for DIII as both my DD's made the choice to play there. Your DD will need to complete the online application (to show interest), probably visit the school, both of my DD's did, meet the coach, team and my oldest participated in a clinic however, my youngest didn't. DIII does not award "athletic" aid, it's all Merit Based and worked well for us as it can't be pulled if they decide to stop playing. I've also heard of coaches getting involved to get additional funds if needed. I wish I knew that earlier, lol. Yes, the grades DO have to be maintained in order to get the Merit quoted. *It does happen late so be prepared to be waiting a bit, think end of summer of before Senior year although, I've heard it's changed again and should be posted on NCAA. Best of Luck!


----------



## Zoro

I'm 9 years out of this.  IMO the school is worth more than the money you get.  That said, some kids do very well on the basic state schools so I think now it matters less than it did.   The whole what school thing seems rather overblown compared to what soccer was (college was easy).  
Can the kid do "beast mode"? If they can, not much else matters. 
That is the thing they get from the soccer.


----------



## Overtime

My daughter recently received acceptance and an offer to play for a top d3 academic and athletic school that plays in the UAA.  She is a 2021 and I thought I would share what transpired for parents going through the process.  Going into the fall of 2019 my daughter had interest from a few d1 schools (attended ID camps) and multiple d3 schools.  There were 2-3 showcases scheduled for March/April/May 2020 where she had schools coming to see her play for a final look....Covid made sure that did not happen.  Once Covid shut everything down and the reality of the lost college season hit the fall of 2020 (for most teams) many of the roster spots that were being offered to 2021s dried up as seniors who decided to return for an extra year had an affect at the schools she was talking to.  In the fall of 2020 my daughter decided to start writing and calling a new group of schools...almost starting over.  As the recruiting dead period continued to be extended the process became all about calling, writing and game film.  My daughter decided that she wanted to focus on D3 schools as the end of 2020 approached and she was able to start playing in scrimmages and those fun AZ road trips.  Her team was slated to play in the National League Showcase in Dallas in mid March 2021.  She picked some top level d3 schools from the list of schools attending reached out and sent film.  She connected with the school where she has her current offer and the coach liked what she saw and was going to use the showcase as her final baromter.  The Dallas showcase was cancelled due to snow, sleet and freezing temps...my daughter was crushed yet she did not gvie up.  She continued to communicate witht the coach and asked if she could fly out and train with the team but they were shut down due to Covid.  In the end the coach said she needed a few more full game films so we had 2-3 of her club games filmed and sent them out.  She just finsihed her visit and received her offer this week.  The moral of my long winded story is our DDs have worked so hard and 2020/21 was a crazy year due to Covid but persistence and a positive outlook pay off.  My DD got frustrated multiple times but never stopped trying to find new ways to connect with coaches.  In my opinion the recruiting process benefited my daughter and taught her to take control of her future and that obstacles will always present themselves in life but can be overcome.


----------



## gotothebushes

Overtime said:


> My daughter recently received acceptance and an offer to play for a top d3 academic and athletic school that plays in the UAA.  She is a 2021 and I thought I would share what transpired for parents going through the process.  Going into the fall of 2019 my daughter had interest from a few d1 schools (attended ID camps) and multiple d3 schools.  There were 2-3 showcases scheduled for March/April/May 2020 where she had schools coming to see her play for a final look....Covid made sure that did not happen.  Once Covid shut everything down and the reality of the lost college season hit the fall of 2020 (for most teams) many of the roster spots that were being offered to 2021s dried up as seniors who decided to return for an extra year had an affect at the schools she was talking to.  In the fall of 2020 my daughter decided to start writing and calling a new group of schools...almost starting over.  As the recruiting dead period continued to be extended the process became all about calling, writing and game film.  My daughter decided that she wanted to focus on D3 schools as the end of 2020 approached and she was able to start playing in scrimmages and those fun AZ road trips.  Her team was slated to play in the National League Showcase in Dallas in mid March 2021.  She picked some top level d3 schools from the list of schools attending reached out and sent film.  She connected with the school where she has her current offer and the coach liked what she saw and was going to use the showcase as her final baromter.  The Dallas showcase was cancelled due to snow, sleet and freezing temps...my daughter was crushed yet she did not gvie up.  She continued to communicate witht the coach and asked if she could fly out and train with the team but they were shut down due to Covid.  In the end the coach said she needed a few more full game films so we had 2-3 of her club games filmed and sent them out.  She just finsihed her visit and received her offer this week.  The moral of my long winded story is our DDs have worked so hard and 2020/21 was a crazy year due to Covid but persistence and a positive outlook pay off.  My DD got frustrated multiple times but never stopped trying to find new ways to connect with coaches.  In my opinion the recruiting process benefited my daughter and taught her to take control of her future and that obstacles will always present themselves in life but can be overcome.


Well said and what a great story. Wish your daughter the best.


----------



## crush

Overtime said:


> My daughter recently received acceptance and an offer to play for a top d3 academic and athletic school that plays in the UAA.  She is a 2021 and I thought I would share what transpired for parents going through the process.  Going into the fall of 2019 my daughter had interest from a few d1 schools (attended ID camps) and multiple d3 schools.  There were 2-3 showcases scheduled for March/April/May 2020 where she had schools coming to see her play for a final look....Covid made sure that did not happen.  Once Covid shut everything down and the reality of the lost college season hit the fall of 2020 (for most teams) many of the roster spots that were being offered to 2021s dried up as seniors who decided to return for an extra year had an affect at the schools she was talking to.  In the fall of 2020 my daughter decided to start writing and calling a new group of schools...almost starting over.  As the recruiting dead period continued to be extended the process became all about calling, writing and game film.  My daughter decided that she wanted to focus on D3 schools as the end of 2020 approached and she was able to start playing in scrimmages and those fun AZ road trips.  Her team was slated to play in the National League Showcase in Dallas in mid March 2021.  She picked some top level d3 schools from the list of schools attending reached out and sent film.  She connected with the school where she has her current offer and the coach liked what she saw and was going to use the showcase as her final baromter.  The Dallas showcase was cancelled due to snow, sleet and freezing temps...my daughter was crushed yet she did not gvie up.  She continued to communicate witht the coach and asked if she could fly out and train with the team but they were shut down due to Covid.  In the end the coach said she needed a few more full game films so we had 2-3 of her club games filmed and sent them out.  She just finsihed her visit and received her offer this week.  The moral of my long winded story is our DDs have worked so hard and 2020/21 was a crazy year due to Covid but persistence and a positive outlook pay off.  My DD got frustrated multiple times but never stopped trying to find new ways to connect with coaches.  In my opinion the recruiting process benefited my daughter and taught her to take control of her future and that obstacles will always present themselves in life but can be overcome.


Thank you thank you for sharing.  Good luck 100% to your dd


----------



## Overlap

gotothebushes said:


> Well said and what a great story. Wish your daughter the best.


Awesome! Love your DD's determination!!! Best of luck to her, hope you get to see lot's of games


----------



## Mystery Train

Overtime said:


> My daughter recently received acceptance and an offer to play for a top d3 academic and athletic school that plays in the UAA.  She is a 2021 and I thought I would share what transpired for parents going through the process.  Going into the fall of 2019 my daughter had interest from a few d1 schools (attended ID camps) and multiple d3 schools.  There were 2-3 showcases scheduled for March/April/May 2020 where she had schools coming to see her play for a final look....Covid made sure that did not happen.  Once Covid shut everything down and the reality of the lost college season hit the fall of 2020 (for most teams) many of the roster spots that were being offered to 2021s dried up as seniors who decided to return for an extra year had an affect at the schools she was talking to.  In the fall of 2020 my daughter decided to start writing and calling a new group of schools...almost starting over.  As the recruiting dead period continued to be extended the process became all about calling, writing and game film.  My daughter decided that she wanted to focus on D3 schools as the end of 2020 approached and she was able to start playing in scrimmages and those fun AZ road trips.  Her team was slated to play in the National League Showcase in Dallas in mid March 2021.  She picked some top level d3 schools from the list of schools attending reached out and sent film.  She connected with the school where she has her current offer and the coach liked what she saw and was going to use the showcase as her final baromter.  The Dallas showcase was cancelled due to snow, sleet and freezing temps...my daughter was crushed yet she did not gvie up.  She continued to communicate witht the coach and asked if she could fly out and train with the team but they were shut down due to Covid.  In the end the coach said she needed a few more full game films so we had 2-3 of her club games filmed and sent them out.  She just finsihed her visit and received her offer this week.  The moral of my long winded story is our DDs have worked so hard and 2020/21 was a crazy year due to Covid but persistence and a positive outlook pay off.  My DD got frustrated multiple times but never stopped trying to find new ways to connect with coaches.  In my opinion the recruiting process benefited my daughter and taught her to take control of her future and that obstacles will always present themselves in life but can be overcome.


Congrats to your DD!  Great story of persistence.  I always tell parents that if their kids are motivated and don't give up, there will be a place for them somewhere.  Whether or not that place is a place they can see themselves going to school and enjoying might be another story, but sounds like your daughter was able to make both happen.  I thought Covid was awful for my 2020 grad.  Nothing compared to what the '21's lost, I guess!


----------



## oh canada

Overtime said:


> My daughter recently received acceptance and an offer to play for a top d3 academic and athletic school that plays in the UAA.  She is a 2021 and I thought I would share what transpired for parents going through the process.  Going into the fall of 2019 my daughter had interest from a few d1 schools (attended ID camps) and multiple d3 schools.  There were 2-3 showcases scheduled for March/April/May 2020 where she had schools coming to see her play for a final look....Covid made sure that did not happen.  Once Covid shut everything down and the reality of the lost college season hit the fall of 2020 (for most teams) many of the roster spots that were being offered to 2021s dried up as seniors who decided to return for an extra year had an affect at the schools she was talking to.  In the fall of 2020 my daughter decided to start writing and calling a new group of schools...almost starting over.  As the recruiting dead period continued to be extended the process became all about calling, writing and game film.  My daughter decided that she wanted to focus on D3 schools as the end of 2020 approached and she was able to start playing in scrimmages and those fun AZ road trips.  Her team was slated to play in the National League Showcase in Dallas in mid March 2021.  She picked some top level d3 schools from the list of schools attending reached out and sent film.  She connected with the school where she has her current offer and the coach liked what she saw and was going to use the showcase as her final baromter.  The Dallas showcase was cancelled due to snow, sleet and freezing temps...my daughter was crushed yet she did not gvie up.  She continued to communicate witht the coach and asked if she could fly out and train with the team but they were shut down due to Covid.  In the end the coach said she needed a few more full game films so we had 2-3 of her club games filmed and sent them out.  She just finsihed her visit and received her offer this week.  The moral of my long winded story is our DDs have worked so hard and 2020/21 was a crazy year due to Covid but persistence and a positive outlook pay off.  My DD got frustrated multiple times but never stopped trying to find new ways to connect with coaches.  In my opinion the recruiting process benefited my daughter and taught her to take control of her future and that obstacles will always present themselves in life but can be overcome.


This post is a perfect example of the valuable content that this forum can provide.  Thank you for sharing your DD's story!  I wish more parents would share their recruiting stories to help others.  It can be done in a way (like you did) that is anonymous and helpful.  I will do the same if/when the time comes.  Others?


----------



## MMMM

I’l bite! My DD is a 2022, verbally committed late last year. We found that having already established relationships with the coaches at the programs she was considering was THE most important element to the process, not sure if that’s going to be the same in non-COVID years. She had attended school-specific ID camps at five-ish schools that she was talking to seriously — there was one outlier where she’d never set foot on campus and another outlier where her last ID camp had been more than 2 years prior, but the schools that were most seriously in the mix were places she’d been to camps and such on a number of occasions, all relatively local schools, which also helped because in the local soccer coaching scene the coaches at club and college all talk to each other and the assistant coaches at the colleges sometimes coach club on the side and vice versa.  The biggest lesson for us was that being on a fancy team matters for talent credibility purposes, but the showcases mattered WAY LESS than we thought they would.  Even in a non-COVID year, the showcases seem to be more about confirming in person what the coach is already considering from prior interactions.


----------



## Dubs

MMMM said:


> I’l bite! My DD is a 2022, verbally committed late last year. We found that having already established relationships with the coaches at the programs she was considering was THE most important element to the process, not sure if that’s going to be the same in non-COVID years. She had attended school-specific ID camps at five-ish schools that she was talking to seriously — there was one outlier where she’d never set foot on campus and another outlier where her last ID camp had been more than 2 years prior, but the schools that were most seriously in the mix were places she’d been to camps and such on a number of occasions, all relatively local schools, which also helped because in the local soccer coaching scene the coaches at club and college all talk to each other and the assistant coaches at the colleges sometimes coach club on the side and vice versa.  The biggest lesson for us was that being on a fancy team matters for talent credibility purposes, but the showcases mattered WAY LESS than we thought they would.  Even in a non-COVID year, the showcases seem to be more about confirming in person what the coach is already considering from prior interactions.


I think your last two sentences are very accurate.


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## GT45

That is not true ... maybe for your kid, but not overall. The showcases are where they see kids live with their teams. Camps are difficult to evaluate because you have a large range of talent out there, and no one has played together before. A high level showcase is where the players true level is revealed.


----------



## Dubs

GT45 said:


> That is not true ... maybe for your kid, but not overall. The showcases are where they see kids live with their teams. Camps are difficult to evaluate because you have a large range of talent out there, and no one has played together before. A high level showcase is where the players true level is revealed.


In my case the showcases actually served both.  It was where schools that were already interested solidified their interest and for new ones to emerge that were not part of the mix before.  However, the relationships were mostly in place before showcases.  I realize everyone's experience is different so I'm in no way saying this is an exact science.


----------



## lafalafa

My tip is only commitment to a school where the head coach courts or talks directly to the player, multiple 1 on 1s if possible.  Spending time together really helped our youngest make his decision. Knowing about the staff or assistants helps, but when the head coach shows up to training, games, events and has 1 on 1s it can really make the difference and lasting impression.

Our youngest son received several offers, some campus visits, majority of the time it was assistant coaches or just blind offers coming at different times for schools he didn't even know about.

Usually after he played in some tournament, showcase, or post season comp but couple times just by different coaching talking among themselves and recommending.

Never attended any camps or ID events, your club or head coach connections goes a long way that and who, what, or where you play.   There wasn't a tournament, showcase, or postseason where the offers didn't come in even after he committed .

On the boys side there are a fair number of head coaches that also are college coaches or trainers to some degree.  Playing for one of those can be invaluable in a lot of different ways.  If your looking for a team and have college inspiration definitely consider that.


----------



## crush

lafalafa said:


> My tip is only commitment to a school where the head coach courts or talks directly to the player, multiple 1 on 1s if possible.  Spending time together really helped our youngest make his decision. Knowing about the staff or assistants helps, but when the head coach shows up to training, games, events and has 1 on 1s it can really make the difference and lasting impression.
> 
> Our youngest son received several offers, some campus visits, majority of the time it was assistant coaches or just blind offers coming at different times for schools he didn't even know about.
> 
> Usually after he played in some tournament, showcase, or post season comp but couple times just by different coaching talking among themselves and recommending.
> 
> Never attended any camps or ID events, your club or head coach connections goes a long way that and who, what, or where you play.   There wasn't a tournament, showcase, or postseason where the offers didn't come in even after he committed .
> 
> On the boys side there are a fair number of head coaches that also are college coaches or trainers to some degree.  Playing for one of those can be invaluable in a lot of different ways.  If your looking for a team and have college inspiration definitely consider that.


I love this stuff, thanks bro.  My dd needs the right fit.  3 official visits coming soon to a campus near you except by EOTL's crib....lol.  I spoke to a big time youth coach and he told me 2021s are still up first.  2022s need to slow the heck down and not fret is what he told me.  Relax and calm down was his message to me to tell of of you.  Relax everyone   Take your time, especially in these times.  That's my 4 cents worth


----------



## lafalafa

crush said:


> I love this stuff, thanks bro.  My dd needs the right fit.  3 official visits coming soon to a campus near you except by EOTL's crib....lol.  I spoke to a big time youth coach and he told me 2021s are still up first.  2022s need to slow the heck down and not fret is what he told me.  Relax and calm down was his message to me to tell of of you.  Relax everyone   Take your time, especially in these times.  That's my 4 cents worth


One of the key things is your players discussion on how new players are brought into the program what their expectation are for playing time,  training, development and the time frames.

Current roster is a tricky one but does fit in to the discussions.  What positions have the most opportunities?   Being capable of playing multiples does helps a lot in section and eventually finding playing time.

Some coaches flat out told my son that freshmen league play is a long shot, some preseason but when you look at the major conference teams it's mostly juniors and seniors getting the minutes.

Larger close to 30 persons roster make it real competition for those minutes. Is your player prepared to sit for 1-2 years before getting major  minutes?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

The whole process is not really about soccer but about your kid's education and college experience.  Your kid is not going pro and if they do, they are better off getting a job since there is no money to be made in the pro's (except for the very, very few).  Every girl that gets recruited is a good player but not all freshmen last on the team.   I would be surprised if 75% of college players make it all 4 years.   Playing time is definitely a challenge with 11 starting spots and often 30+ players.   Make sure you kid is getting the degree they want.  That the school fits the experience they want and that they like their teammates and develop friendships at the school.   If they play or make an impact that should be a bonus not a deciding factor.


----------



## Giesbock

If I understand the transfer window, it could be that your underclassmen is getting playing time, making an impact and then overnight three or four upperclassmen transfer in and underclassmen are back on the bench...

is that about right?  If so, @Simisoccerfan is absolutely right on the button.


----------



## msoccerm

Simisoccerfan said:


> The whole process is not really about soccer but about your kid's education and college experience.  Your kid is not going pro and if they do, they are better off getting a job since there is no money to be made in the pro's (except for the very, very few).  Every girl that gets recruited is a good player but not all freshmen last on the team.   I would be surprised if 75% of college players make it all 4 years.   Playing time is definitely a challenge with 11 starting spots and often 30+ players.   Make sure you kid is getting the degree they want.  That the school fits the experience they want and that they like their teammates and develop friendships at the school.   If they play or make an impact that should be a bonus not a deciding factor.


If this is the case why not just go to university and not play a sport which takes up study time and a chance to have a part time job which will help you get a real job. All the money spent from travelling to tournaments and private coaching to get that college scholarship was such a waste of money which could have been spent on college. And parents could have done something more productive with their kids instead of sitting in a car e.g. volunteered or camped. And parents are willing to put their kid at risk of getting an injury that may require surgery ($) and rehab ($)  which would affect their mental health and have life long symptoms (osteoarthritis)  - for what? Of course they want to play on their college team. Sitting on a bench does nothing for your child's confidence and mental health.

I feel like your idea of women's pro sports is outdated. All around the world pro female players are making a living out there, having a great time and getting university degrees. At a much greater level than players in college they are learning valuable skills - leadership, resilience, team work, handling pressure, etc. so that when they "retire" they can get a good paying job. With no regrets. It is easier than you think for a female to get a pro contract in Europe or Asia. People play soccer professionally because they LOVE it. Kind of like musicians, artists, ministers, actors, teachers, etc It's not all about the money.

What are Americans doing to help professional womens soccer grow in the US? Are getting your company to sponsor teams? Volunteering? Buying tickets and going to semi pro/pro games with your friends?


----------



## cerebro de fútbol

It"s a long journey.  There is no one right way to be recruited.  Club/Coach contacts work for some kids.  ID Camps work for others.  My DD was lucky to be picked up in the second semester of her senior year during COVID by a D1 program.  She had been recruited by other D1 programs but the timing or fit was off.


----------



## CaliKlines

Giesbock said:


> If I understand the transfer window, it could be that your underclassmen is getting playing time, making an impact and then overnight three or four upperclassmen transfer in and underclassmen are back on the bench...


Bingo....my DD made it to the Sweet 16 of the NCAA tournament as a freshman...started, and played the entire 90 mins against a dominant UCLA side. However, due to the overall success of the team in the tournament, the coach was able to recruit transfer players from Europe which drastically impacted her minutes in her sophomore season. Dog eat dog daily competition on the pitch at all levels. I agree with cerebro, lots of routes to playing in college, so you do what you can to help the player get seen. ID Camps, guesting, playing up, sending emails, working hard to improve skills, conditioning. My DD guested with a team from Seattle at November Nights (I think) and some college coaches from the Seattle area were there to scout that team and afterwards, the club coach fielded some inquiries regarding my daughter. One size does not fit all.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

D1 is not a big deal now that I've seen and experienced it.  Honestly my daughter would have been perfectly happy playing at the D3 level.


----------



## msoccerm

eastbaysoccer said:


> D1 is not a big deal now that I've seen and experienced it.  Honestly my daughter would have been perfectly happy playing at the D3 level.


If my daughter was academic I would be for sure looking at a school with smaller class sizes and group based discussions - most Div 3 and some Div 2 schools. Californians aside - not sure why Americans always go for those big state schools - University of Arkansas is ranked #2 in womens soccer, but in the 1,000 in the QS rankings. That's just awful. And I'm sure the class sizes are like 100+.


----------



## Dubs

msoccerm said:


> If my daughter was academic I would be for sure looking at a school with smaller class sizes and group based discussions - most Div 3 and some Div 2 schools. Californians aside - not sure why Americans always go for those big state schools - University of Arkansas is ranked #2 in womens soccer, but in the 1,000 in the QS rankings. That's just awful. And I'm sure the class sizes are like 100+.


That is precisely why school fit always comes first.  These girls need to ask themselves if they would be happy at these places if soccer is taken out of the equation.


----------



## gkrent

msoccerm said:


> University of Arkansas is ranked #2 in womens soccer, but in the 1,000 in the QS rankings.


Whaaa???  #2???


----------



## outside!

gkrent said:


> Whaaa???  #2???


Who?


----------



## Kicker4Life

gkrent said:


> Whaaa???  #2???


According to NCAA rankings based on RPI:
1 - FSU
2 - Arkansas
3 - UNC
4 - Texas A&M
5 - UCLA

Based on United Soccer Coaches:
1 - FSU
2 - UNC
3 - UCLA
4 - Penn State
5 - Weat Virginia


----------



## msoccerm

Dubs said:


> That is precisely why school fit always comes first. These girls need to ask themselves if they would be happy at these places if soccer is taken out of the equation.


They probably would be happy if the party scene was good and there was a lot of school pride because that's what some state schools have to do to attract people. Otherwise if you look at big picture you're sending your child to a school where learning is based on listening and memorising and there are no prospects or internships (except maybe medical/nursing) within a reasonable distance.  

Stanford QS 2
UCLA QS 36
University of CA - Davis QS 112
University of CA - Irving QS 210
University Notre Dame QS 211
University of Florida State QS 456
University of Oklahoma QS 651-700
University of Arkansas QS 1001+


----------



## GT45

msoccerm said:


> They probably would be happy if the party scene was good and there was a lot of school pride because that's what some state schools have to do to attract people. Otherwise if you look at big picture you're sending your child to a school where learning is based on listening and memorising and there are no prospects or internships (except maybe medical/nursing) within a reasonable distance.
> 
> Stanford QS 2
> UCLA QS 36
> University of CA - Davis QS 112
> University of CA - Irving QS 210
> University Notre Dame QS 211
> University of Florida State QS 456
> University of Oklahoma QS 651-700
> University of Arkansas QS 1001+


This is not an accurate comment at all. Large schools also have small classes. Large schools offer great educations. Many large schools are in or very near large cities. You may be referring to Arkansas in particular, but to say they do not have job prospects or internships within a reasonable distance is quite an assumption. Same with this comment "learning is based on listening and memorising". How would you know that? I take it you have never attended a large school.


----------



## msoccerm

I would think that lecture-based classes are fine for some, but it requires a pretty good attention span and engaging professors.   

Apologies if it looks like I'm knocking University of Arkansas because it looks like an affordable school, but the local internship possibilities are bleak:








						Major Employers
					

100 FTEs or more 5 Star Sports Calendar, LLC   3340 N College Ave www.fivestarspots.com Business Type: Printing service American Air Filter Co. Inc. 2355 S Armstrong Ave www.aafintl.com Business...




					www.fayettevillear.com
				




Looks like you only went to schools with large classes sizes because it looks like you're not capable of researching, analysing and listening to other's opinions. lol


----------



## GT45

Large schools do have small classes too. Thank you for the link to major employers, but I am not sure what that proves. You ignore the rest of my message. Your post was based on assumptions and inaccuracies about large schools. I pointed that out.


----------



## msoccerm

Of course sunshine - large schools have small classes, but mainly large classes and sometimes classes that are only offered online.


----------



## GT45

msoccerm said:


> Of course sunshine - large schools have small classes, but mainly large classes and sometimes classes that are only offered online.


You started this conversation with a pompous dig at large schools. Now you end it calling me sunshine. Your shallowness is evident in your posts. Small schools sometimes have classes online too. You don't like large classes. You need your hand held. We get it. Some people thrive in big cities, others do not. To each his/her own. I would never go to a small school. It is not me. But, I find no need to take a dig at them when I have never attended one, nor am I naive enough to put all small schools in the same box.


----------



## hugyourkids

GT45 said:


> You started this conversation with a pompous dig at large schools. Now you end it calling me sunshine. Your shallowness is evident in your posts. Small schools sometimes have classes online too. You don't like large classes. You need your hand held. We get it. Some people thrive in big cities, others do not. To each his/her own. I would never go to a small school. It is not me. But, I find no need to take a dig at them when I have never attended one, nor am I naive enough to put all small schools in the same box.


I generally do not get involved but you did take a dig ("you need your hand held"). I went to big schools but my kids are at smaller schools. They would do fine at either, but I have to say I had no conception of how incredible the small school experience could be until seeing my kids attend them. I had tons of large auditorium classes, they have almost none. No is holding their hands, yet the professor interaction and career support is phenomenal. To each his/her own, just skip the digs, please.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

msoccerm said:


> If this is the case why not just go to university and not play a sport which takes up study time and a chance to have a part time job which will help you get a real job. All the money spent from travelling to tournaments and private coaching to get that college scholarship was such a waste of money which could have been spent on college. And parents could have done something more productive with their kids instead of sitting in a car e.g. volunteered or camped. And parents are willing to put their kid at risk of getting an injury that may require surgery ($) and rehab ($)  which would affect their mental health and have life long symptoms (osteoarthritis)  - for what? Of course they want to play on their college team. Sitting on a bench does nothing for your child's confidence and mental health.
> 
> I feel like your idea of women's pro sports is outdated. All around the world pro female players are making a living out there, having a great time and getting university degrees. At a much greater level than players in college they are learning valuable skills - leadership, resilience, team work, handling pressure, etc. so that when they "retire" they can get a good paying job. With no regrets. It is easier than you think for a female to get a pro contract in Europe or Asia. People play soccer professionally because they LOVE it. Kind of like musicians, artists, ministers, actors, teachers, etc It's not all about the money.
> 
> What are Americans doing to help professional womens soccer grow in the US? Are getting your company to sponsor teams? Volunteering? Buying tickets and going to semi pro/pro games with your friends?


I feel like you are naive.  Regarding going pro there are around 333 D1 women's soccer programs and about 9500 players at those schools.  Maybe 40 per year go pro.  That's a 1% chance to make it.  For those that do great they get to continue their passion but the other 99% of D1 players won't go pro.  They will have to deal with transfers and younger players taking their playing time.   Thus they should pick the college that gives them the best overall experience and the chance to get the education they want.  If soccer can help pay for this education that is about the most any parent can hope for.  Regarding your first paragraph, I totally disagree with you.  My other two kids played but not in college.  The entire experience including those long car drives are great memories and they learned valuable skills that they continue to use.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

msoccerm said:


> I would think that lecture-based classes are fine for some, but it requires a pretty good attention span and engaging professors.
> 
> Apologies if it looks like I'm knocking University of Arkansas because it looks like an affordable school, but the local internship possibilities are bleak:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Major Employers
> 
> 
> 100 FTEs or more 5 Star Sports Calendar, LLC   3340 N College Ave www.fivestarspots.com Business Type: Printing service American Air Filter Co. Inc. 2355 S Armstrong Ave www.aafintl.com Business...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fayettevillear.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like you only went to schools with large classes sizes because it looks like you're not capable of researching, analysing and listening to other's opinions. lol


Actually the University of Arkansas ranks #161 on Forbes list based on the best value.  This compares the cost of attendance vs what graduates actually make.   That is actually higher than the University of Southern California.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

GT45 said:


> Large schools do have small classes too. Thank you for the link to major employers, but I am not sure what that proves. You ignore the rest of my message. Your post was based on assumptions and inaccuracies about large schools. I pointed that out.


And going pro equates to how much money per year?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

eastbaysoccer said:


> And going pro equates to how much money per year?


$40k to 50k average for established players in top leagues of US, France and England.  Less for rookies.   Few US National team players get big supplement from US soccer and endorsement.  But that is a small fraction.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Simisoccerfan said:


> $40k to 50k average for established players in top leagues of US, France and England.  Less for rookies.   Few US National team players get big supplement from US soccer and endorsement.  But that is a small fraction.


Hmm.  Might be worth playing a year or two.


Simisoccerfan said:


> $40k to 50k average for established players in top leagues of US, France and England.  Less for rookies.   Few US National team players get big supplement from US soccer and endorsement.  But that is a small fraction.


more power to the kids that want to do it.  You are only young once.


----------



## gkrent

Simisoccerfan said:


> I feel like you are naive.  Regarding going pro there are around 333 D1 women's soccer programs and about 9500 players at those schools.  Maybe 40 per year go pro.


I would argue this number is higher if you count the young women who go overseas to play.  Again we are talking about peanuts for pay but still I think the number is a bit higher.


----------



## outside!

gkrent said:


> I would argue this number is higher if you count the young women who go overseas to play.  Again we are talking about peanuts for pay but still I think the number is a bit higher.


Some of the players that go overseas to play have fairly short careers, particularly if they don't speak the language. Low pay, no friends and a strange language make for a tough situation.


----------



## crush

eastbaysoccer said:


> Hmm.  Might be worth playing a year or two.
> 
> more power to the kids that want to do it.  *You are only young once.*


Ain't that the truth.  If it's about the almighty $$$$$$, then it's not worth it, MOO.  If it's about playing pro soccer and offer good will all in one, this could all work out. Why does everything about being a pro in anything always seems to be about how much you make?  I went to my old pals house up in the City of Weed, CA and he is set.  Dude quit HS at 17 and never went to college.  He can live off the land.  No joke.  Dude is a smart cat.  I'm looking in the area as well.  I found an old camp site that I'm looking at turning into a Holistic Healing Center right off the 5 fwry.  15 acres.  I think people need to calm the heck down and relax and enjoy life up in the mountains.  Mount Shasta is amazing   The pressure cooker we made for ourselves and our kids was not good at all.


----------



## crush

Tips from Crush   Read this article about this basketball player from Socal.  









						The most unlikely college hoops powerhouse, centuries in the making
					

Led by a player with NBA aspirations, Yeshiva takes a 36-game winning streak into the new season with hopes for a Division III title.




					www.espn.com
				




Tip #1- Relax and enjoy this wonderful time in your dd/ds recruiting life and let them make the decision

Tip#2- D1 is over sold and over hyped, moo

Tip#3- Scholarship does NOT equal Full Ride

Tip#4- If you rush it, you will ruin it

My dd is having a blast and taking her time in this process.  I wanted to share a cool story about a cool coach.  I won;t mention the school but I will say it was not D1 and not in California.  The bold coach told my dd he wanted a few minutes to share his vision of her playing for his program and how much the little town loves soccer and how they would embrace her talents.  I was not on the call but did catch part of it and all I can say was it was the best call so far.  The coach was the real deal and made my dd think about the what ifs.  He made her feel like she would be important.  The Tip I'm trying to point out is to keep an open mind and dont push your kid in one direction.  Good luck to all the kids still trying to find a school to play for in 2022


----------



## eastbaysoccer

It's recruiting .  they will tell you what you want to hear to get you to commit.


----------



## EvilGoalie 21

Re the "big school" vs "small school" dichotomy. Just my 2 cents. Factor out student athlete. Generally, if you think "my kid could benefit from having the mantle of collegiality extended to them right at the beginning", a smaller school might be a good fit.  You can always transfer, and for  CSU/CU, the system really wants the CUs to be looking to take those transfer students.  There is an increasing recognition of the issues experienced by first gens, imposter syndrome, etc. On the big school side, if your kid is ready, don't underestimate what "Hey, I can hang with the top 10% in a class of 500" can do for individual growth.  By the time those students are juniors/seniors, they will be taking smaller classes with people that know the field and who can open doors, more so than at a small school.  They will come home for Christmas senior year and you'll sense the depth of experience has changed. There are some schools, of course, that can give you both, but they are low enrollment institutions that are very selective and $$$$,

Now factor student athlete back in.  I don't know about the ladies side.  For the guys, I've known student athletes who have told me they feel under serious pressure to be both on the travel team and getting the grades/progressing through their major.  I have this feeling that to keep their job on the men's side major school D1 coaches are basically needing to figure out a way to host a USL team on a college campus.  I should probably go back through my kids recruitment videos and photoshop in full build out man pecs and a beard.  Maybe on the ladies side it is different, still kind of the classic student/athlete model.  I don't know.  But the comments in the thread along the lines of know your kid and in the end education is the most important thing seem on the mark to me.  Us adults got our kids rolling on this playing has positive life lessons blah blah blah bandwagon. As that collides with the adult world we bear an equal responsibility to see them through.


----------



## espola

outside! said:


> Some of the players that go overseas to play have fairly short careers, particularly if they don't speak the language. Low pay, no friends and a strange language make for a tough situation.


My son got a tryout offer from a low-level team in Germany after his Freshman year in college, the result of an early-summer tryout camp organized by a former college classmate of his last club coach.  The classmate had played for a few years with the German club and when he came back to the States he used his connections here and over there to set up the camp.  Five were chosen to go - one returned soon after when his bum knee gave out, three, including my son, were offered what amounted to room-and-board student visa roster positions.  Two of those stayed - one for a few months until he came back for the Spring semester at college, and one who stayed and played sparingly for a couple of years and then returned to finish his schooling at an NAIA school.  My son decided he had a better deal at his college (room and board and education plus a starting roster position) so he came back in time for the preseason workouts.


----------



## crush

espola said:


> My son got a tryout offer from a low-level team in Germany after his Freshman year in college, the result of an early-summer tryout camp organized by a former college classmate of his last club coach.  The classmate had played for a few years with the German club and when he came back to the States he used his connections here and over there to set up the camp.  Five were chosen to go - one returned soon after when his bum knee gave out, three, including my son, were offered what amounted to room-and-board student visa roster positions.  Two of those stayed - one for a few months until he came back for the Spring semester at college, and one who stayed and played sparingly for a couple of years and then returned to finish his schooling at an NAIA school.  *My son decided he had a better deal at his college* (room and board and education plus a starting roster position) so he came back in time for the preseason workouts.


Is that your Tip?


----------



## Chelseafc

What do you mean by neing


MMMM said:


> I’l bite! My DD is a 2022, verbally committed late last year. We found that having already established relationships with the coaches at the programs she was considering was THE most important element to the process, not sure if that’s going to be the same in non-COVID years. She had attended school-specific ID camps at five-ish schools that she was talking to seriously — there was one outlier where she’d never set foot on campus and another outlier where her last ID camp had been more than 2 years prior, but the schools that were most seriously in the mix were places she’d been to camps and such on a number of occasions, all relatively local schools, which also helped because in the local soccer coaching scene the coaches at club and college all talk to each other and the assistant coaches at the colleges sometimes coach club on the side and vice versa.  The biggest lesson for us was that being on a fancy team matters for talent credibility purposes, but the showcases mattered WAY LESS than we thought they would.  Even in a non-COVID year, the showcases seem to be more about confirming in person what the coach is already considering from prior interactions.


 on a “fancy” team? Is that league or name brand club?


----------



## MMMM

Chelseafc said:


> What do you mean by neing
> 
> on a “fancy” team? Is that league or name brand club?


Top half of table ECNL club with a good reputation among local college coaches.


----------



## ToonArmy

My daughter just asked me "I know a 5 minute highlight video is too long but is it tooooo long".

I said yes tooooo long. Thought I'd get your thoughts on here?


----------



## espola

ToonArmy said:


> My daughter just asked me "I know a 5 minute highlight video is too long but is it tooooo long".
> 
> I said yes tooooo long. Thought I'd get your thoughts on here?


5 minutes is not too long if every second shows strength in a different skill.  Strong right-footed shot, strong left-footed shot, run through defenders using both feet, a couple of one-touch goals (including a header), some nice set up passes, taking the ball away from opponents -- what are we up to here?  45 seconds?


----------



## Mystery Train

ToonArmy said:


> My daughter just asked me "I know a 5 minute highlight video is too long but is it tooooo long".
> 
> I said yes tooooo long. Thought I'd get your thoughts on here?


Yep.  You're right.  Toooooo long.  These coaches get an avalanche of videos every day.  I had one coach tell me he will give every video 30 seconds and the ones that interest him will get 2 minutes max.


----------



## espola

Mystery Train said:


> Yep.  You're right.  Toooooo long.  These coaches get an avalanche of videos every day.  I had one coach tell me he will give every video 30 seconds and the ones that interest him will get 2 minutes max.


We didn't do a highlights video per se for my son, but one of the Seniors on his HS team made a highlights DVD for the whole team the year they went all the way to CIF Socal Regional final.  We took that along on campus visits or sent a copy with a list of good points to look at in the"Moves",  "Steals", and "Goals" sections.


----------



## Dargle

espola said:


> We didn't do a highlights video per se for my son, but one of the Seniors on his HS team made a highlights DVD for the whole team the year they went all the way to CIF Socal Regional final.  We took that along on campus visits or sent a copy with a list of good points to look at in the"Moves", "Steals", and "Goals" sections.


If you sent a coach a DVD today, he or she would probably use it as a coaster.  They likely don't even have a DVD drive in their laptop anymore.


----------



## myself

Mystery Train said:


> Yep.  You're right.  Toooooo long.  These coaches get an avalanche of videos every day.  I had one coach tell me he will give every video 30 seconds and the ones that interest him will get 2 minutes max.


If the first 2 minutes of a highlight video interests the coach do you think he/she is going to not pursue the player because the highlight video was too long for their taste?


----------



## Mystery Train

myself said:


> If the first 2 minutes of a highlight video interests the coach do you think he/she is going to not pursue the player because the highlight video was too long for their taste?


Not likely, but I did get the distinct impression that they get annoyed with long videos, special effects, fancy graphics, music, slow-motion, etc.  That same coach that I interviewed said he always turned the volume off because the music kids choose is often terrible and distracting.   He was like, "Less is more.  Put her best plays right up front at the start, don't put any music.  You're not trying to win an academy award.  If a coach is interested, they'll ask for more."  He did say the resolution/image quality of video matters.


----------



## GT45

ToonArmy said:


> My daughter just asked me "I know a 5 minute highlight video is too long but is it tooooo long".
> 
> I said yes tooooo long. Thought I'd get your thoughts on here?


I don't think it is too long. They can stop watching it at anytime. If what you put on their is quality, then it is fine. But, if it is a lot of the same stuff over and over, then I would eliminate the redundacy.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

If you need a video to get a coaches attention you have a bigger problem.   If you kid is playing ECNL or some other similar league they should get to play in front of several hundred coaches.  Have your kid write these coaches before the event.  Get a list of who attended your kids actual game and have your kid write them afterwards again.   Getting your kid to play in front of coaches in a real game is the way.


----------



## RocketFile

Presumably there are parents of boys also reading this thread. Getting recruited as a boy is a different process and often much more difficult and competitive - fewer scholarships, greater number of players, heavy influx of european and latin american players, etc. - and video is a critical component to get the process started. It doesn't have to be much, just a calling card and a conversation starter. The video often precedes the showcase and puts your kid on the coach's radar so he makes time to see him play live. Just take a look at the number of girls recruited as soph/juniors v boys at the same age. Its not just that girls mature faster. The whole process is different.


----------



## ToonArmy

Simisoccerfan said:


> If you need a video to get a coaches attention you have a bigger problem.   If you kid is playing ECNL or some other similar league they should get to play in front of several hundred coaches.  Have your kid write these coaches before the event.  Get a list of who attended your kids actual game and have your kid write them afterwards again.   Getting your kid to play in front of coaches in a real game is the way.


What if you already have a relationship with coach or coaches and they have seen you play and tgerebhas


----------



## ToonArmy

ToonArmy said:


> What if you already have a relationship with coach or coaches and they have seen you play and there has been conversations maybe even a phone call or two and you are sending videos to these coaches of highlights from recent games


----------



## Kicker 2.0

For what it’s worth, I would say initial emails early in the process should be traitors….short and sweet showing some dynamics witjjng the highlights.

When you are actively engaging with a coach, they typically ask for  highlights showcasing more specific abilities or situations which can and likely should be a bit longer.


----------



## espola

Kicker 2.0 said:


> For what it’s worth, I would say initial emails early in the process should be traitors….short and sweet showing some dynamics witjjng the highlights.
> 
> When you are actively engaging with a coach, they typically ask for  highlights showcasing more specific abilities or situations which can and likely should be a bit longer.


Traitors?


----------



## Kicker 2.0

Kicker 2.0 said:


> For what it’s worth, I would say initial emails early in the process should be traitors….short and sweet showing some dynamics witjjng the highlights.
> 
> When you are actively engaging with a coach, they typically ask for  highlights showcasing more specific abilities or situations which can and likely should be a bit longer.


Trailers……


----------



## crush

Do players have to take the jab in order to play in college still?  Honest question my friend is asking.  I think video is good if your kid wants to play far away.  The most important part of the process is to NEVER challenge the Doc about his mistreatment of females because for some reason, that spreads around faster then gossip.


----------



## Kicker 2.0

crush said:


> Do players have to take the jab in order to play in college still?  Honest question my friend is asking.  I think video is good if your kid wants to play far away.  The most important part of the process is to NEVER challenge the Doc about his mistreatment of females because for some reason, that spreads around faster then gossip.


Take it to Off Topic


----------



## crush

Kicker 2.0 said:


> Take it to Off Topic


Jab is real about college recruiting and this is not an off topic discussion.  Do you know as of today sir?


----------



## GoldenGate

crush said:


> Do players have to take the jab in order to play in college still?  Honest question my friend is asking.  I think video is good if your kid wants to play far away.  The most important part of the process is to NEVER challenge the Doc about his mistreatment of females because for some reason, that spreads around faster then gossip.


They need it if they want to go to Spain.  I do know that.

Just call the coach yourself and lie that god appeared to you in a dream and told you she should not get vaccinated, so therefore your daughter has a sincere religious belief that prevents her from getting vaccinated.  And that she can't wear a mask at practice as a reasonable accommodation either because then god told you in another dream that it's the mark of Cain.  Or maybe that she has a secret "medical condition" that is so serious that she can't do what a 5 year old can do without any problem, but not serious enough that it is possible to obtain a legitimate doctor's note explaining the condition, and certainly not serious enough to negatively impact her ability to play sports in any way.  And then have her tell the school and IRS that she made herself a sovereign entity so she doesn't need to pay either taxes or tuition. They'll know what to do.


----------



## GT45

Simisoccerfan said:


> If you need a video to get a coaches attention you have a bigger problem.   If you kid is playing ECNL or some other similar league they should get to play in front of several hundred coaches.  Have your kid write these coaches before the event.  Get a list of who attended your kids actual game and have your kid write them afterwards again.   Getting your kid to play in front of coaches in a real game is the way.


This is not true. College coaches often ask for highlight videos if you do not send them outright. They want to get a quick look at you, and then they will come see you play. Sometimes a coach is on the otherside of the country, so they may not see you for awhile. Highlight videos can be very important.


----------



## Mystery Train

crush said:


> Jab is real about college recruiting and this is not an off topic discussion.  Do you know as of today sir?


Yes for UC & cal state schools.  Don’t know about elsewhere


----------



## lafalafa

Mystery Train said:


> Yes for UC & cal state schools.  Don’t know about elsewhere


Yes proof of vax and booster (varying deadlines per university) to be on campus in person classes.  Masks required

Weekly testing mandatory for all athletes and students who live in campus, optional for all others.


----------



## GoldenGate

GT45 said:


> This is not true. College coaches often ask for highlight videos if you do not send them outright. They want to get a quick look at you, and then they will come see you play. Sometimes a coach is on the otherside of the country, so they may not see you for awhile. Highlight videos can be very important.


Making a video serves a purpose in the right circumstances, but anyone who relies on video really far behind the eight ball.  What simisoccerfan said is the best advice anyone has given yet in this thread.  Recruiting can be very easy and straightforward if kid plays at a solid ECNL club for a respected coach.  College coaches show up in droves for good teams at showcases and will almost always pay close attention to a kid who has shown interest, at least if the club coach has recommended the player in advance and is respected enough for the college to know they don't oversell players.

Every dollar I paid for soccer was earned back 10x over when her coach sat us down to talk about her future, specifically college.  We talked about her interests, grades and test scores, and the colleges we were interested in for and their educational programs. We discussed how he anticipated she would fit in with different college coaches given their respective personalities and styles of play.  He knew everything, including the educational programs at every school we were interested in, and each of the college coaches personally including their personalities and style of play.  We discussed the schools he thought she might have a hard time getting playing time and the extent to which that even mattered to her if, for example, soccer was just her way to leverage getting admitted to Stanford.  He made calls to coaches at the schools we agreed were the best fits, every single one of them watched her team at a showcase a few weeks later and, in fact, 100 college coaches came to her team's games that weekend.  Within a month she had unofficial visits to two Ivies, two Pac-12s, and the one WCC that interested us.  There were no videos. There were no mass emails to college coaches.  This is not how things were done at her club because it was not necessary.  All it took was my daughter's hard work, excellent daily training and development, and a phone call.

It is painful seeing dads complain in the other thread that a club deserves to be in ECNL because it has a U14 team that beat a pre-ECNL team at Mustang. They have no idea what ECNL is about.  It isn't about 14 year old girls winning as many soccer games as possible.  Many of their daughters are 11, 12 or 13 and have the potential to leverage soccer into college opportunity that it beyond their parents' wildest dreams and the path is right there in front of them, but they will squander it.  When they claim a club in Modesto should be in ECNL over one like Santa Rosa United that has not won much for a long time, they have no clue. They don't understand that any 13 year old girl with potential who plays at Santa Rosa who is committed will develop into a solid college recruit even if they lose all their games.  They don't understand that this club has respected staff with a long history of developing kids who have ability, and who are respected by college coaches who will answer the phone and listen when they call based on mutual respect that has been earned over decades.  They fail to understand that there has been a single family connected with that club for so long, and who have contributed to developing and putting so many girls into high level programs that it is ridiculous, so much so that a kid is 75% of the way to an offer just because one of them made a phone call.  Whereas college coaches have dealt with unknown yahoo coaches trying to oversell players and waste their time their entire careers, and it is unlikely they will  even listen to the voicemail when some unknown phone number pops up.


----------



## oh canada

You never know what is going to work for your kid--some get a door opened by a club coach, but others at that same club don't. Some get a door opened by a college coach seeing a video, others don't. Some get discovered at a showcase, others don't. If you want to maximize your kid's opportunities, you need to do all:

Club play, showcases, id camps, emails, AND VIDEO.



Simisoccerfan said:


> If you need a video to get a coaches attention you have a bigger problem.


Things are different now than 5-7 years ago. Social media and video much more influential.


----------



## Speed

lafalafa said:


> Yes proof of vax and booster (varying deadlines per university) to be on campus in person classes.  Masks required
> 
> Weekly testing mandatory for all athletes and students who live in campus, optional for all others.


exemptions available even at the UC and state schools.


----------



## lafalafa

Speed said:


> exemptions available even at the UC and state schools.


Your mileage my differ but only seen limited exemptions and they had been denials after references are checked.  2x players we know attempted the religious exemptions only to be denied when the organization listed didn't back those up.

Maybe next semester/quarter things will easy up but for now it's a week to week thing where you have to meet all the criteria to participate in athletics including vax, booster, weekly testing.  Weekly testing is required even if you manage to get a exemption which are hard to come by.


----------



## Rockinchair

GoldenGate said:


> Making a video serves a purpose in the right circumstances, but anyone who relies on video really far behind the eight ball.  What simisoccerfan said is the best advice anyone has given yet in this thread.  Recruiting can be very easy and straightforward if kid plays at a solid ECNL club for a respected coach.  College coaches show up in droves for good teams at showcases and will almost always pay close attention to a kid who has shown interest, at least if the club coach has recommended the player in advance and is respected enough for the college to know they don't oversell players.
> 
> Every dollar I paid for soccer was earned back 10x over when her coach sat us down to talk about her future, specifically college.  We talked about her interests, grades and test scores, and the colleges we were interested in for and their educational programs. We discussed how he anticipated she would fit in with different college coaches given their respective personalities and styles of play.  He knew everything, including the educational programs at every school we were interested in, and each of the college coaches personally including their personalities and style of play.  We discussed the schools he thought she might have a hard time getting playing time and the extent to which that even mattered to her if, for example, soccer was just her way to leverage getting admitted to Stanford.  He made calls to coaches at the schools we agreed were the best fits, every single one of them watched her team at a showcase a few weeks later and, in fact, 100 college coaches came to her team's games that weekend.  Within a month she had unofficial visits to two Ivies, two Pac-12s, and the one WCC that interested us.  There were no videos. There were no mass emails to college coaches.  This is not how things were done at her club because it was not necessary.  All it took was my daughter's hard work, excellent daily training and development, and a phone call.
> 
> It is painful seeing dads complain in the other thread that a club deserves to be in ECNL because it has a U14 team that beat a pre-ECNL team at Mustang. They have no idea what ECNL is about.  It isn't about 14 year old girls winning as many soccer games as possible.  Many of their daughters are 11, 12 or 13 and have the potential to leverage soccer into college opportunity that it beyond their parents' wildest dreams and the path is right there in front of them, but they will squander it.  When they claim a club in Modesto should be in ECNL over one like Santa Rosa United that has not won much for a long time, they have no clue. They don't understand that any 13 year old girl with potential who plays at Santa Rosa who is committed will develop into a solid college recruit even if they lose all their games.  They don't understand that this club has respected staff with a long history of developing kids who have ability, and who are respected by college coaches who will answer the phone and listen when they call based on mutual respect that has been earned over decades.  They fail to understand that there has been a single family connected with that club for so long, and who have contributed to developing and putting so many girls into high level programs that it is ridiculous, so much so that a kid is 75% of the way to an offer just because one of them made a phone call.  Whereas college coaches have dealt with unknown yahoo coaches trying to oversell players and waste their time their entire careers, and it is unlikely they will  even listen to the voicemail when some unknown phone number pops up.


it’s the non-ECNL players (ie everyone else) that has to put in a little extra effort - what the “extra” effort is will vary depending on the situation.  Agree 100% about having a high quality club coach being a driving force, yet those are words that seldom go together….

Unfortunately I’d imagine your experience is the exception as the kid who is on the bubble between D1 and D2 who plays for an ECRL team or regional equivalent is going to have to take a different path.  There are mid level teams that, after going to multiple showcases this past year, probably haven’t had 100 coaches attend their games in aggregate, much less one weekend. And the games where they had 7-8 coaches watching, those are highly unlikely to be any college at the top of someone’s “list”.  

Experience is quite a bit different in the silver bracket of a showcase….and let’s not even talk about the bronze division.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

oh canada said:


> You never know what is going to work for your kid--some get a door opened by a club coach, but others at that same club don't. Some get a door opened by a college coach seeing a video, others don't. Some get discovered at a showcase, others don't. If you want to maximize your kid's opportunities, you need to do all:
> 
> Club play, showcases, id camps, emails, AND VIDEO.
> 
> 
> Things are different now than 5-7 years ago. Social media and video much more influential.


I am waiting for the parent of an actual college player to say their kid got recruited because of the video they sent to the coach.  I know that all 21 girls on my daughters team had either D1 or D2 offers and video did nothing for them.  Also my daughters college coaches find players by actually going to see tournaments and showcase.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Rockinchair said:


> it’s the non-ECNL players (ie everyone else) that has to put in a little extra effort - what the “extra” effort is will vary depending on the situation.  Agree 100% about having a high quality club coach being a driving force, yet those are words that seldom go together….
> 
> Unfortunately I’d imagine your experience is the exception as the kid who is on the bubble between D1 and D2 who plays for an ECRL team or regional equivalent is going to have to take a different path.  There are mid level teams that, after going to multiple showcases this past year, probably haven’t had 100 coaches attend their games in aggregate, much less one weekend. And the games where they had 7-8 coaches watching, those are highly unlikely to be any college at the top of someone’s “list”.
> 
> Experience is quite a bit different in the silver bracket of a showcase….and let’s not even talk about the bronze division.


Let’s be honest here ECRL players probably are not bubble D1 players.  As a parent your efforts should be to getting your kid on that team that is seen by hundreds of coaches.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Getting recruited is also not even half the battle.   Most teams have 30 plus players and only routinely play 3-5 subs.  That means half don’t play.  Only maybe 22 travel so that’s 10 that stay home.  Try tracking team rosters over 4 years.  You will see many Freshmen not only not getting minutes but dropping out or transferring.  Same for the later years.  You need to make sure your kid is in it for the right reasons and is mentally tough enough to handle it.  Also all 30 plus players were studs in club.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Simisoccerfan said:


> I am waiting for the parent of an actual college player to say their kid got recruited because of the video they sent to the coach.  I know that all 21 girls on my daughters team had either D1 or D2 offers and video did nothing for them.  Also my daughters college coaches find players by actually going to see tournaments and showcase.


My dd sent a video back in June 15th, 2020 and got a text back by the coach within 5 minutes.  Then they set up a phone call and offer was made.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Simisoccerfan said:


> Getting recruited is also not even half the battle.   Most teams have 30 plus players and only routinely play 3-5 subs.  That means half don’t play.  Only maybe 22 travel so that’s 10 that stay home.  Try tracking team rosters over 4 years.  You will see many Freshmen not only not getting minutes but dropping out or transferring.  Same for the later years.  You need to make sure your kid is in it for the right reasons and is mentally tough enough to handle it.  Also all 30 plus players were studs in club.


100% true


----------



## Dargle

Simisoccerfan said:


> I am waiting for the parent of an actual college player to say their kid got recruited because of the video they sent to the coach.  I know that all 21 girls on my daughters team had either D1 or D2 offers and video did nothing for them.  Also my daughters college coaches find players by actually going to see tournaments and showcase.


If you’re talking about getting an offer based upon video alone, that happens, but primarily in D3 where they don’t have a travel budget. Even there, it’s not really video alone, because you have calls too and your grades and record have to be enough to get you into the school basically without being a priority admit for the coach.  In that sense, the “offer” is really just like an invite to at least be a practice player.

If you’re talking about a coach being interested without ever getting an email from the kid expressing their interest in the program and including a highlight reel and an invite to watch them at an upcoming showcase, that happens, but really mostly for kids on strong teams that have had a well-respected coach or other neutral submit the oral/email/text equivalent of an email/highlight video already. It’s not all that common for a college coach to simply spot a kid randomly at a game and when it does happen it’s a kid everyone sees is good and the coach is hoping they can get a chance to pick them up after they fall through the cracks of the top schools.  Moreover, a decent percentage of those coaches are at a game to see someone specific who has contacted them with email/video, so the other kids are just free-riding.  If no one had reached out ahead of time, it would have been harder for everyone.

It’s also so much easier and common to have a video now than it was even a couple of years ago that people with advice about their kids’ experience often are woefully out-of-date. It used to be few games were recorded and editing had to be done by a professional. Now, with Veo/Trace, most kids can do a reasonable video themselves for free. It’s just not a big deal at all, which is why most people do it now.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Dargle said:


> If you’re talking about getting an offer based upon video alone, that happens, but primarily in D3 where they don’t have a travel budget. Even there, it’s not really video alone, because you have calls too and your grades and record have to be enough to get you into the school basically without being a priority admit for the coach.  In that sense, the “offer” is really just like an invite to at least be a practice player.
> 
> If you’re talking about a coach being interested without ever getting an email from the kid expressing their interest in the program and including a highlight reel and an invite to watch them at an upcoming showcase, that happens, but really mostly for kids on strong teams that have had a well-respected coach or other neutral submit the oral/email/text equivalent of an email/highlight video already. It’s not all that common for a college coach to simply spot a kid randomly at a game and when it does happen it’s a kid everyone sees is good and the coach is hoping they can get a chance to pick them up after they fall through the cracks of the top schools.  Moreover, a decent percentage of those coaches are at a game to see someone specific who has contacted them with email/video, so the other kids are just free-riding.  If no one had reached out ahead of time, it would have been harder for everyone.
> 
> It’s also so much easier and common to have a video now than it was even a couple of years ago that people with advice about their kids’ experience often are woefully out-of-date. It used to be few games were recorded and editing had to be done by a professional. Now, with Veo/Trace, most kids can do a reasonable video themselves for free. It’s just not a big deal at all, which is why most people do it now.


Video was huge for my pals dd.  March 2020 the 2022s got kicked in the gut.  My dd had three visits she was putting together for her June 15th official visits.  The only visit was her door opener video.  The video open the door because most of the kids were on lock down.


----------



## oh canada

Simisoccerfan said:


> I am waiting for the parent of an actual college player to say their kid got recruited because of the video they sent to the coach.  I know that all 21 girls on my daughters team had either D1 or D2 offers and video did nothing for them.  Also my daughters college coaches find players by actually going to see tournaments and showcase.


With respect, I get the impression that your recruiting experience was 4+ years ago?  Pre-covid? Just like at the workplace, things have changed. I know firsthand because I've had two kids go through recruiting 4+ years ago and now my youngest is going through it this year (2023 grad). Video helps. Videos are being made/sent a lot more frequently by players. And, videos are being watched and used more by college coaches. Is an offer going to be made based on video alone? No. But, if it's good, it can certainly persuade a coach to come watch a player live who wouldn't have been recruited otherwise. And, video is a great way to keep interested coaches updated throughout the year. But again, it's got to be good video, that really shows a player's abilities. There's a lot of unhelpful content out there, but like Dargle said, it's much easier now to put stuff together. For my olders, most of the kids making videos were hiring out those services. Not necessary now. 

Direct communication and content providing from players takes power away from the control-hungry clubs. This player-empowerment is an added benefit too.


----------



## GT45

Simisoccerfan said:


> I am waiting for the parent of an actual college player to say their kid got recruited because of the video they sent to the coach.  I know that all 21 girls on my daughters team had either D1 or D2 offers and video did nothing for them.  Also my daughters college coaches find players by actually going to see tournaments and showcase.


Videos give coaches insight into the player. It can encourage them to go out and watch the player. I know multiple players that the video was a HUGE part of their recruiting. Not all kids get big showcase opportunites. Videos intrigue a coach, then coach goes out to watch them play.

Coaches have asked my kid for video.


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## GoldenGate

[/QUOTE]
Direct communication and content providing from players takes power away from the control-hungry clubs. This player-empowerment is an added benefit too.
[/QUOTE]

Who beat you as a child to make you this hostile and conspiratorial about people who are trying to help you?  You may as well be claiming that an SAT prep course company is "power hungry" because it also wants your money in exchange for helping improve your kid's college prospects. Both are just companies that people pay to help them improve their kids' college prospects, except that soccer is more fun for parents than watching their children study. It is also more effective if your kid can play.  

When you decide that you won't let your daughter play at a club that can help her, but that you're going to rely on a video instead, that is the exact opposite of player empowerment.


----------



## GoldenGate

Soccerhelper said:


> Video was huge for my pals dd.  March 2020 the 2022s got kicked in the gut.  My dd had three visits she was putting together for her June 15th official visits.  The only visit was her door opener video.  The video open the door because most of the kids were on lock down.


How did your reliance on video work out btw?  Your daughter isn't going to college at all right?  She's going to fly to Spain instead, and then fly straight back because you know better than to let her take the bat poison that is killing all your friends.


----------



## oh canada

Direct communication and content providing from players takes power away from the control-hungry clubs. This player-empowerment is an added benefit too.
[/QUOTE]

Who beat you as a child to make you this hostile and conspiratorial about people who are trying to help you?  You may as well be claiming that an SAT prep course company is "power hungry" because it also wants your money in exchange for helping improve your kid's college prospects. Both are just companies that people pay to help them improve their kids' college prospects, except that soccer is more fun for parents than watching their children study. It is also more effective if your kid can play.

When you decide that you won't let your daughter play at a club that can help her, but that you're going to rely on a video instead, that is the exact opposite of player empowerment.
[/QUOTE]
----------------------------------------------
Yawn.

Keep reading things literally and spewing nonsensical insults. You wear both well.

There's a power imbalance in club soccer. If you haven't seen clubs and leagues make decisions for their benefit at the expense of players and families, then you haven't been a part of club soccer very long. I'm feeling charitable, so I'll give you a few examples...the DA banning kids from playing HS soccer, thus taking power and control of that decision away from families. What about clubs holding tryouts in Dec/Jan and requiring $$ payment when they know the current season doesn't end till Feb/Mar (for youngers)? All 3 of my kids have taken the SAT. We didn't have to travel across the country and pay $200/nt for an "approved" Holiday Inn Express for them to sit for the test. I could go on, but my hunch is it's pointless for you.

All three of my kids have benefited from club soccer, but we all should be in favor of players and families finding ways to empower themselves in their own journeys--even something as simple as making a scouting contact without your club's help. If you're against that then you're either a club staffer or sleeping with one. Sweet dreams.


----------



## Soccerhelper

[/QUOTE]
----------------------------------------------
Yawn.

Keep reading things literally and spewing nonsensical insults. You wear both well.

There's a power imbalance in club soccer. If you haven't seen clubs and leagues make decisions for their benefit at the expense of players and families, then you haven't been a part of club soccer very long. I'm feeling charitable, so I'll give you a few examples...the DA banning kids from playing HS soccer, thus taking power and control of that decision away from families. What about clubs holding tryouts in Dec/Jan and requiring $$ payment when they know the current season doesn't end till Feb/Mar (for youngers)? All 3 of my kids have taken the SAT. We didn't have to travel across the country and pay $200/nt for an "approved" Holiday Inn Express for them to sit for the test. I could go on, but my hunch is it's pointless for you.

All three of my kids have benefited from club soccer, but we all should be in favor of players and families finding ways to empower themselves in their own journeys--even something as simple as making a scouting contact without your club's help. If you're against that then you're either a club staffer or sleeping with one. Sweet dreams.
[/QUOTE]
Boom!!!!


----------



## GoldenGate

oh canada said:


> Yawn.
> 
> Keep reading things literally and spewing nonsensical insults. You wear both well.
> 
> There's a power imbalance in club soccer. If you haven't seen clubs and leagues make decisions for their benefit at the expense of players and families, then you haven't been a part of club soccer very long. I'm feeling charitable, so I'll give you a few examples...the DA banning kids from playing HS soccer, thus taking power and control of that decision away from families. What about clubs holding tryouts in Dec/Jan and requiring $$ payment when they know the current season doesn't end till Feb/Mar (for youngers)? All 3 of my kids have taken the SAT. We didn't have to travel across the country and pay $200/nt for an "approved" Holiday Inn Express for them to sit for the test. I could go on, but my hunch is it's pointless for you.
> 
> All three of my kids have benefited from club soccer, but we all should be in favor of players and families finding ways to empower themselves in their own journeys--even something as simple as making a scouting contact without your club's help. If you're against that then you're either a club staffer or sleeping with one. Sweet dreams.


Buenos dias.

Wow, this is pretty stupid even for you. 

First, DA went under in large part because of the HS ban, which definitively disproves your theory that there is a power imbalance in club soccer. Second, uh, ECNL has never banned HS.  I seriously can't believe you are claiming that people should rely on video instead of taking advantage of the college exposure that ECNL provides because of a HS ban by a different league that went under because of the ban.  

Second, ECNL does not hold tryouts in Dec/Jan.  It holds tryouts for a kid whenever a kid who can play is ready to make the jump.  Rather, it is only shit clubs like Ajax and Crossfire that pull that kind of crap.  ECNL actually empowers parents and families by dispensing of the ridiculous notion that shit clubs like Ajax and Crossfire have that children are their own personal property.  

Finally, "pay and play" tournaments and showcases are not ECNL specific, most major tournaments do this.  And although you seem to have a conspiracy theory that they do this to screw families, the simple truth is that huge tournaments cost money, and it also costs money to ensure that convenient hotels reserve their entire hotels instead of just gouging everyone by jacking the prices up to $300 a night.  And the only way that can happen is by requiring that teams stay at the hotel.

I seriously can't understand why you are so hostile to ECNL, other than you don't want other people to take advantage of the opportunities that ECNL provides because you're too cheap to take advantage.  Given your whining about having to stay at a hotel, which is just part of the tournament cost, I suspect that's the reason. Go for it.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

DA was trying to establish a playing and training system which I actually think is beneficial.  More training and less games.  No back to back games.  Guarantee starts and limited subs guaranteeing meaningful time for the more marginal players.   Consistent year round training.   To do this you would need to play and train with DA during the HS season.   It's HS that bans outside competition and has banned it for a very long time.  So you had to choose unlike ECNL which shutdown locally for HS.   DA underestimated the parent/player desire to play for the HS and all of the fans and school spirit that comes with it.   So in my mind the soccer approach was superior but it missed the mark on the social aspect.  ECNL seems to manage both very well.

I stand firm in my recruiting advice which is if your daughter is capable of playing ECNL and wants to play in college, make the sacrifices to get her on a team.   She will get so much exposure that making a video will not be needed (though writing coaches that watched her play is still good).   The good ECNL clubs also have a ton of connections with college coaches and a good word from your ECNL coach or recruiting director to a college coach is like gold.


----------



## Kicker 2.0

Simisoccerfan said:


> She will get so much exposure that making a video will not be needed (though writing coaches that watched her play is still good).   The good ECNL clubs also have a ton of connections with college coaches and a good word from your ECNL coach or recruiting director to a college coach is like gold.


I respectfully disagree with this part of your statement. A “highlight” reel is a valuable advertising asset to any player looking to play in college.  Although coaches have a lot of connections, even they ask player for video clips to sent on the players behalf.  It also helps the College coaches plan their schedules (and who on their staff they send to what games) when scouting at Showcases.  

I have 1 DD committed to her school of choice and another entering the process.  Video clips have been valuable assets in this process.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Simisoccerfan said:


> *Guarantee starts and limited subs guaranteeing meaningful time for the more marginal players*.


These two killed my competitive juice but I understand why they had that rule.  It was the best of the best players and then the best of best parents with the most money.  I'm not a fan at all.  The sub thing the first year was horrible as well.  No come back in was lame 100%.  I paid for one year of no playoffs and it was lame too.  I dont think they failed because of HSS.  They failed because of Covid.  No way they could survive for the last two years.  Plus, rumor had it they were going to allow all the girls the same freedom the rich parents got with the waivers and allow choice.  The whole thing was done with one end in mind.


----------



## Kicker 2.0

Soccerhelper said:


> These two killed my competitive juice but I understand why they had that rule.  It was the best of the best players and then the best of best parents with the most money.  I'm not a fan at all.  The sub thing the first year was horrible as well.  No come back in was lame 100%.  I paid for one year of no playoffs and it was lame too.  I dont think they failed because of HSS.  They failed because of Covid.  No way they could survive for the last two years.  Plus, rumor had it they were going to allow all the girls the same freedom the rich parents got with the waivers and allow choice.  The whole thing was done with one end in mind.


Good thing YOU weren’t the one playing.


----------



## Mystery Train

Simisoccerfan said:


> Getting recruited is also not even half the battle.   Most teams have 30 plus players and only routinely play 3-5 subs.  That means half don’t play.  Only maybe 22 travel so that’s 10 that stay home.  Try tracking team rosters over 4 years.  You will see many Freshmen not only not getting minutes but dropping out or transferring.  Same for the later years.  You need to make sure your kid is in it for the right reasons and is mentally tough enough to handle it.  Also all 30 plus players were studs in club.


This is something that ought to be memorized by all youth soccer parents who visualize their kid playing in college.  If your kid plays significant minutes in college, you can consider it a total bonus, and one that isn't entirely under their control.  Injuries, transfers, coaching changes, upperclassmen quitting to prepare for life outside of soccer... by comparison, it's a snap to get playing time as youth player in a pay to play system where every age group has hundreds of clubs and dozens of leagues to choose from.  I know multiple kids who went toy college with "stud" status as club players who never got more than a handful of games before eventually graduating or dropping the sport before graduating. BTW, this doesn't mean they weren't great, or just as good as most of the kids who did play, but just that the opportunities are so limited, that's just the way it shakes out.   My DD has seen plenty of club and college teammates that were equal in ability, talent, work ethic, etc., but for all sorts of factors, had completely different college playing experiences. 

As for the question about video, I can say that the videos my kid sent were important in her recruitment, though certainly not THE primary tool.  For example, she was an ECNL GK, and the programs that gave her offers rarely saw her do anything spectacular in person at games because frequently the games they happened to attend were lopsided affairs where she just stood around and took the occasional pass back or what action she did see wasn't particularly dramatic or highlight worthy.  But the team's mere presence and standing as an upper level ECNL team helped garner the initial interest, and then they attended games, and then she sent videos that helped confirm what the coaches suspected she was capable of.  The coaches who recruited her said they could tell better in person by sight that a player could play even if the particular game didn't showcase everything, but the videos are helpful to fill in any blanks.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Kicker 2.0 said:


> Good thing YOU weren’t the one playing.


I agree and that was a good one....lol!  She is ultra competitive, especially against grown men who lie through their teeth.  Remember, the apple doesn;t fall far from the tree.  I'm sorry to vent with others on here about my experience with the pay to play league, with 25% starts for all players, regardless of skill level.  It's just what my experience was and I was the customer.  I paid a lot of money that year trying to help the country with their girls soccer league that they put together for the girls and the parents paid to watch them play competitive games.  I had no idea the girls had no playoffs for the parents to watch.


----------



## Kicker 2.0

Soccerhelper said:


> I agree and that was a good one....lol!  She is ultra competitive, especially against grown men who lie through their teeth.  Remember, the apple doesn;t fall far from the tree.  I'm sorry to vent with others on here about my experience with the pay to play league, with 25% starts for all players, regardless of skill level.  It's just what my experience was and I was the customer.  I paid a lot of money that year trying to help the country with their girls soccer league that they put together for the girls and the parents paid to watch them play competitive games.  I had no idea the girls had no playoffs for the parents to watch.


You and everyone else.  Guess some of us just knew what we were signing up for.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Kicker 2.0 said:


> You and everyone else.  Guess some of us just knew what we were signing up for.


Mental abuse and lies is not what I signed up for, thats why we left bro.


----------



## GoldenGate

Soccerhelper said:


> I agree and that was a good one....lol!  She is ultra competitive, especially against grown men who lie through their teeth.  Remember, the apple doesn;t fall far from the tree.  I'm sorry to vent with others on here about my experience with the pay to play league, with 25% starts for all players, regardless of skill level.  It's just what my experience was and I was the customer.  I paid a lot of money that year trying to help the country with their girls soccer league that they put together for the girls and the parents paid to watch them play competitive games.  I had no idea the girls had no playoffs for the parents to watch.


Thank you for your service.  

So tragic that your country let you down by not holding a national playoffs for U14 girls soccer.


----------



## MamaBear5

Mystery Train said:


> As for the question about video, I can say that the videos my kid sent were important in her recruitment, though certainly not THE primary tool.  For example, she was an ECNL GK, and the programs that gave her offers rarely saw her do anything spectacular in person at games because frequently the games they happened to attend were lopsided affairs where she just stood around and took the occasional pass back or what action she did see wasn't particularly dramatic or highlight worthy.  But the team's mere presence and standing as an upper level ECNL team helped garner the initial interest, and then they attended games, and then she sent videos that helped confirm what the coaches suspected she was capable of.  The coaches who recruited her said they could tell better in person by sight that a player could play even if the particular game didn't showcase everything, but the videos are helpful to fill in any blanks.


Thank-you for your insight. My kiddo spent the last two showcases receiving passback but not having to make any saves worth a anything. So at one game 70 coaches saw what she can do with her feet with min. pressure but the other team just didn't challenge or get shots off. Kinda frustrating as she is still in the hunt for a future home. Congrats to your dd by the way (one of your old keeper coaches works with my kiddo and was bragging to the girls a couple of weeks ago about your dd's accomplishments).

A lot of the contentious conversations here about ECNL and video/no video is really around those D1 amazing dream schools. There are a lot of other schools out there and you don't necessarily need to be playing ECNL to find a happy soccer home. Sometimes these smaller schools aren't making it out to the showcases and sometimes the video starts the conversation. My kid has an offer already for a small school in maine based off of video and conversation. Pretty sure it is not an offer she is going to take but just goes to show that there is a place for video. A couple of her other prospects have seen her play or she attended their ID camp and they have asked she sends them video once a month or so in order to keep an eye on what she is doing.


----------



## Soccerhelper

GoldenGate said:


> Thank you for your service.
> 
> So tragic that your country let you down by not holding a national playoffs for U14 girls soccer.


The league was dumb, period and you agree so lay off my daughter asshole.  I want to talk about the abuse some of these assholes like you treat girls. Parents have bought their way into soccer and pay to play and pay to get what they want and you love that because you make money in soccer asshole and treat females like shit asshole!!!!!!!  Answer me this:  Did the coaches talk about mental health at the last coaches conference asshole?  My point in all of this is that many coaches are clueless with the pressure put on girls to perform at a high level, get perfect grades and get 1400 SAT asshole just to be a soccer player and treat females like shit, just like you asshole!!!!  Today is not a day to mess with me!!!!!  Do you know how many females have killed themselves the last 12 months asshole?


----------



## GoldenGate

Soccerhelper said:


> The league was dumb, period and you agree so lay off my daughter asshole.  I want to talk about the abuse some of these assholes like you treat girls. Parents have bought their way into soccer and pay to play and pay to get what they want and you love that because you make money in soccer asshole and treat females like shit asshole!!!!!!!  Answer me this:  Did the coaches talk about mental health at the last coaches conference asshole?  My point in all of this is that many coaches are clueless with the pressure put on girls to perform at a high level, get perfect grades and get 1400 SAT asshole and treat females like shit, just like you asshole!!!!  Today is not a day to mess with me!!!!!  Do you know how many females have killed themselves the last 12 months asshole?


I think you misconstrue that the negative things I say about you, which you deserve, are about your daughter.  You have spent five years here doing nothing but complain how everything about your child's youth soccer experience since she won a "national championship" when she was 13 year old has been awful and a disappointment.  Her coaches, everyone else's coaches, all of her clubs, everyone else's clubs, all their DOCs, GDA, high school soccer, referees, literally everything. You have blamed everyone but yourself for burning every bridge around you, arrogantly telling college and club coaches, and everyone here, that you had no interest in college for your daughter because she was going pro right out of HS.  Your lack of self-awareness about who is putting pressure on children, your lack of personal accountability for anything, is truly astounding.

I can also see where you are going, and I will tell you right now it is it offensive and disrespectful to take someone else's tragedy, about which you know  nothing, to support your anti-lockdown, anti-vax, anti-mask, anti-personal responsibility for anything, or whatever your self-pity party agenda item for today happens to be.  Stop trying to use this horrible tragedy for your own selfish purposes you clueless idiot.


----------



## Kicker 2.0

Soccerhelper said:


> Mental abuse and lies is not what I signed up for, thats why we left bro.


The League mentally abused you and Lied to you? 

That’s a first, please do tell.


----------



## Soccerhelper

GoldenGate said:


> I think you misconstrue that the negative things I say about you, which you deserve, are about your daughter.  You have spent five years here doing nothing but complain how everything about your child's youth soccer experience since she won a "national championship" when she was 13 year old has been awful and a disappointment.  Her coaches, everyone else's coaches, all of her clubs, everyone else's clubs, all their DOCs, GDA, high school soccer, referees, literally everything. You have blamed everyone but yourself for burning every bridge around you, arrogantly telling college and club coaches, and everyone here, that you had no interest in college for your daughter because she was going pro right out of HS.  Your lack of self-awareness about who is putting pressure on children, your lack of personal accountability for anything, is truly astounding.
> 
> I can also see where you are going, and I will tell you right now it is it offensive and disrespectful to take someone else's tragedy, about which you know  nothing, to support your anti-lockdown, anti-vax, anti-mask, anti-personal responsibility for anything, or whatever your self-pity party agenda item for today happens to be.  Stop trying to use this horrible tragedy for your own selfish purposes you clueless idiot.


You of all people.  You know you threaten my child asshole.  People called you out for it.  You have asked me on numerous occasions about Spain.  You make fun of the possibilities of her being returned because you might need a vax.  That is fucking being a mental abuser on my child.  You are something else.  PLease forgive me for going off on you today  You are the biggest liar and asshole here.  I have been pleading with some of you to wake the fuck up.  You have made fun of me and my kid asshole way too many times.  I am 100% dead serious.  Dont fuck with me today!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Soccerhelper

Kicker 2.0 said:


> The League mentally abused you and Lied to you?
> 
> That’s a first, please do tell.


I can;t believe you.  The fucking Director asshole whom also ran the TC in San Diego.  What a piece of work you have become.  Leave it Kicker.  Today is not the day.  Do you know what it;s like to be 14 years old and be lied to contantly and pressure to play in the league or HSS.  That was real pressure Kicker.  Please, leave me alone today.  That league was shit and we all know why excpet you.  My dd has gone through tough times Kicker, ok.  How would you like to be offerred a $200,000 deal but be told, "Jab or no deal."  That is fucking mental pressure bro.  Thanks for nothing and please never threaten me again, got it?????


----------



## Kicker 2.0

Soccerhelper said:


> I can;t believe you.  The fucking Director asshole whom also ran the TC in San Diego.  What a piece of work you have become.  Leave it Kicker.  Today is not the day.  Do you know what it;s like to be 14 years old and be lied to contantly and pressure to play in the league or HSS.  That was real pressure Kicker.  Please, leave me alone today.  That league was shit and we all know why excpet you.  My dd has gone through tough times Kicker, ok.  How would you like to be offerred a $200,000 deal but be told, "Jab or no deal."  That is fucking mental pressure bro.  Thanks for nothing and please never threaten me again, got it?????


“we” are you referring to your multiple avatars?

You are the one who put that on her….own it!


----------



## Soccerhelper

Kicker 2.0 said:


> “we” are you referring to your multiple avatars?
> 
> You are the one who put that on her….own it!


No sir, you are a back stabber.  Who the fuck takes a personal conversation from a goat fc "pal" and then air what you think I said to you on a public forum?  WTF does that shit?  You do.  Why?  I was against your league that you bought into.  I only paid one year.  It was complete lies and that is 100% truth.  I put my dd out here because the liars said to STFU or else.  I came here because they are here dummy.  You know they are too which has me puzzled.


----------



## Soccerhelper

To all you parents who have kids. Call your kids today and tell them you love them regardless of their GPA, SAT score, soccer skills and grades.  Their is more to life then school and soccer.  My threats are at an all time high everyone and I might need to leave.


----------



## Kicker 2.0

Soccerhelper said:


> No sir, you are a back stabber.  Who the fuck takes a personal conversation from a goat fc "pal" and then air what you think I said to you on a public forum?  WTF does that shit? You do.  Why?


Don’t hate the mirror for what it reflects…


----------



## Soccerhelper

Kicker 2.0 said:


> Don’t hate the mirror for what it reflects…


This place is shit and I piled mine on it for sure at times.  When it comes to girls and how some coaches have treated girls in soccer, I dont regret coming on here to share the facts, despite you my fact checker.  Do you work for Metaverse?  I tell parents all the time that soccer right now in this country is poison at best.  If you dont take the jab as a 14 year old soccer player you cant go to camp.  Do you agree with that?  Tonight is it for me dude.  Assholes are threatening again.  Amazing what men will do in their darkest hour.  Have fun fact checker and gate keeper of socal soccer.  You win kicker.


----------



## GoldenGate

Soccerhelper said:


> You of all people.  You know you threaten my child asshole.  People called you out for it.  You have asked me on numerous occasions about Spain.  You make fun of the possibilities of her being returned because you might need a vax.  That is fucking being a mental abuser on my child.  You are something else.  PLease forgive me for going off on you today  You are the biggest liar and asshole here.  I have been pleading with some of you to wake the fuck up.  You have made fun of me and my kid asshole way too many times.  I am 100% dead serious.  Dont fuck with me today!!!!!!!!!


Nope, I'm just making fun of you.  Honestly, it never dawned on me that anyone, even you, would be dumb enough to convince their child to forego a college education so she could train in a country she can't even go to because she isn't vaccinated.  But it's beginning to sound very much like that's actually a very real problem for you.  If it is, don't blame me.  I'm not the anti-vaxxer calling a life-saving vaccine "bat poison" and posting one stupid anti-vax meme after the next, which you obviously thought was a real hoot right up until those memes came home to roost. I'm not the one willing to spread Covid to everyone around me, risking their health and safety.  I didn't tell her to not get vaccinated, that was you.  And if she decides to "risk" the "bat poison" because Spain is that important, I'm also not the one who will lose sleep the rest of my days worrying that my kid will grow bat wings and a tail.  If your kid just sacrificed her ability to play in college because you were too stupid to realize she needs to be vaccinated to go to Spain, if you really don't have a plan, you can try to avoid personal responsibility (yet again) all you want by trying to make it my fault, but all of it falls squarely on you buddy.


----------



## Soccerhelper

GoldenGate said:


> Nope, I'm just making fun of you.  Honestly, it never dawned on me that anyone, even you, would be dumb enough to convince their child to forego a college education so she could train in a country she can't even go to because she isn't vaccinated.  But it's beginning to sound very much like that's actually a very real problem for you.  If it is, don't blame me.  I'm not the anti-vaxxer calling a life-saving vaccine "bat poison" and posting one stupid anti-vax meme after the next, which you obviously thought was a real hoot right up until those memes came home to roost. I'm not the one willing to spread Covid to everyone around me, risking their health and safety.  I didn't tell her to not get vaccinated, that was you.  And if she decides to "risk" the "bat poison" because Spain is that important, I'm also not the one who will lose sleep the rest of my days worrying that my kid will grow bat wings and a tail.  If your kid just sacrificed her ability to play in college because you were too stupid to realize she needs to be vaccinated to go to Spain, if you really don't have a plan, you can try to avoid personal responsibility (yet again) all you want by trying to make it my fault, but all of it falls squarely on you buddy.


You are so evil coach so and so.  Just wait until the real news hits you in the gut.  Do you know how many professional soccer plays have died after the jab the last 12 months?' Any of you smart asses want to take a guess?  Last 12 months?  Guess monster man?  Today is 100% my last day by the way.  Everyone following this shit, this guy Golden gate makes bank selling Elite soccer to parents and then looks for the kick back.  Dirty money!!! No real dad would talk like you about my dd all the time.  No way you have any kids.  You lie way too much!!!  You actually threaten my dd dude.  I have it all.  No one should be forced to take this vax shit.   Golden Gate is highly involved with girls soccer and so are others on here everyone.   Dad on boards is not a good look.  This sport is controlled by some real monsters and you and the other two are monsters.  Pay to play so you get paid, nice!!!  Put down Fresno players.  Put down poor families.  Put down free thinkers who say no to the jab. I see how you work your lies.  You lie and lie and put mental abuse on kids all the time.  By the way, no jab needed in Spain, yay!!!  Nice try coach...


----------



## GoldenGate

Soccerhelper said:


> You are so evil coach so and so.  Just wait until the real news hits you in the gut.  Do you know how many professional soccer plays have died after the jab the last 12 months?' Any of you smart asses want to take a guess?  Last 12 months?  Guess monster man?  Today is 100% my last day by the way.  Everyone following this shit, this guy Golden gate makes bank selling Elite soccer to parents and then looks for the kick back.  Dirty money!!! No real dad would talk like you about my dd all the time.  No way you have any kids.  You lie way too much!!!  You actually threaten my dd dude.  I have it all.  No one should be forced to take this vax shit.   Golden Gate is highly involved with girls soccer and so are others on here everyone.   Dad on boards is not a good look.  This sport is controlled by some real monsters and you and the other two are monsters.  Pay to play so you get paid, nice!!!  Put down Fresno players.  Put down poor families.  Put down free thinkers who say no to the jab. I see how you work your lies.  You lie and lie and put mental abuse on kids all the time.  By the way, no jab needed in Spain, yay!!!  Nice try coach...


Tottenham just plays like they died, but they're not really dead moron.  Exactly zero professional soccer players have died because they got vaccinated.   Zero.  Nada.  How many anti-vaxxers have killed their parents by giving them Covid-19? 

Congratulations that Spain now allows anti-vaxxers to travel if they can show proof they had Covid-19 but did not receive a Herman Cain Award. That was a close one.


----------



## Soccerhelper

GoldenGate said:


> Tottenham just plays like they died, but they're not really dead moron.  Exactly zero professional soccer players have died because they got vaccinated.   Zero.  Nada.  How many anti-vaxxers have killed their parents by giving them Covid-19?
> 
> Congratulations that Spain now allows anti-vaxxers to travel if they can show proof they had Covid-19 but did not receive a Herman Cain Award. That was a close one.


You are so evil Coach.  Why are you here?  Are you still after me and my little 13 year old?  What a piece of work you have become.  You like being a attorney?  Karma got you and it's all over for you.


----------



## Soccerhelper

When was the last time any of you have heard of 5 professional soccer players dying from a heart attack in one year?

*Five professional soccer players die from heart attacks, fueling speculation of vaccine side effects ((this was last year.  Pfizer just released 10 pages of adverse effects that they were trying to keep from us for 75 years.  CEO's sold their stocks and took off.  **Merderna** is down 60% and others 20% down)).*
It is unclear if any of the five soccer players had received the COVID jabs, however, most international, and domestic sports teams have mandates in place.  Nothing to see here folks and Golden Gate is so right, right?  Listen to this fool lie and lie and help get your kids killed.  Life insurance claims are up 40% and that is no lie.  CNN is not reporting and all Fox reports now is war.  WTF up folks and please, dont get any boosters.  I will never get the jab Golden Gate.  Never loser!!!  When was the last time insurance carriers had a 40% increase?  Never!!!  This is the first year.  10% was the highest.  What a killer you have become GG.  Here is some recruiting tips for parents.  Dont talk your kids into taking the jab so they can get a free education for soccer.  Also, if your kid is really good, dont take the jabs so you can play for the USA.  That is my tip today.


----------



## Kicker 2.0

Soccerhelper said:


> When was the last time any of you have heard of 5 professional soccer players dying from a heart attack in one year?
> 
> *Five professional soccer players die from heart attacks, fueling speculation of vaccine side effects ((this was last year.  Pfizer just released 10 pages of adverse effects that they were trying to keep from us for 75 years.  CEO's sold their stocks and took off.  **Merderna** is down 60% and others 20% down)).*
> It is unclear if any of the five soccer players had received the COVID jabs, however, most international, and domestic sports teams have mandates in place.  Nothing to see here folks and Golden Gate is so right, right?  Listen to this fool lie and lie and help get your kids killed.  Life insurance claims are up 40% and that is no lie.  CNN is not reporting and all Fox reports now is war.  WTF up folks and please, dont get any boosters.  I will never get the jab Golden Gate.  Never loser!!!  When was the last time insurance carriers had a 40% increase?  Never!!!  This is the first year.  10% was the highest.  What a killer you have become GG.  Here is some recruiting tips for parents.  Dont talk your kids into taking the jab so they can get a free education for soccer.  Also, if your kid is really good, dont take the jabs so you can play for the USA.  That is my tip today.


WRONG THREAD!!!!


----------



## Mystery Train

Let’s keep this thread clear for parents dealing with recruitment questions.  It’s almost literally the only valuable thread on the forum anymore.


----------



## Soccerhelper

Mystery Train said:


> Let’s keep this thread clear for parents dealing with recruitment questions.  It’s almost literally the only valuable thread on the forum anymore.


I agree.  Good luck you guys with college soccer.  I will not post anymore tips on the life and times of girls soccer after high school.  I wish you all the best.


----------



## socalkdg

Simisoccerfan said:


> I am waiting for the parent of an actual college player to say their kid got recruited because of the video they sent to the coach.  I know that all 21 girls on my daughters team had either D1 or D2 offers and video did nothing for them.  Also my daughters college coaches find players by actually going to see tournaments and showcase.


Goalkeeper so it is a bit different, but daughter has received 8-10 email responses based just off her video and is in conversation with those colleges.  I will say ECNL does make it easier and that is under consideration for next year.

Regarding emails and video,  she has had responses as quickly as 1-2 days, as well as not seeing anything until 8 weeks later or after emailing for the 3rd time.   Until a coach says I don't have a place for you, have your kid keep emailing.


----------



## ToonArmy

My daughter noticed a school that had a B team. This was a D2 east coast school. Anybody know whats up with that?


----------



## LASTMAN14

ToonArmy said:


> My daughter noticed a school that had a B team. This was a D2 east coast school. Anybody know whats up with that?


It could be a practice team. An old team mate went to Penn St. and played on their B team . Long live Les Ferdinand.


----------



## ToonArmy

How important is it for your invited visit to a school to be "official" as opposed to "unofficial". I guess I'm asking if unofficial is a waste of time and money even if the school invited you after seeing you play and has been contacting you and you have had zoom meetings with coaching staff including head coach and recruiting coordinator.


----------



## gkrent

ToonArmy said:


> How important is it for your invited visit to a school to be "official" as opposed to "unofficial". I guess I'm asking if unofficial is a waste of time and money even if the school invited you after seeing you play and has been contacting you and you have had zoom meetings with coaching staff including head coach and recruiting coordinator.


Official visits can only happen during the senior year (EDITED:  I stand corrected, now you can go as a junior as well.  Jeez, would have loved that back in the day!), I believe, and all expenses including travel for Official visits are paid by the school 

An invited unofficial is not a waste of and is often used when it's too early for the official visit to negotiate a commitment, but usually not paid for because of NCAA rules.

I'm not familiar with the timing of this stuff anymore as far as the NCAA rules go but this was the case a few years ago.


----------



## KJR

gkrent said:


> Official visits can only happen during the senior year, I believe, and all expenses including travel for Official visits are paid by the school
> 
> An invited unofficial is not a waste of and is often used when it's too early for the official visit to negotiate a commitment, but usually not paid for because of NCAA rules.
> 
> I'm not familiar with the timing of this stuff anymore as far as the NCAA rules go but this was the case a few years ago.


An official visit can now happen junior year, as well (anytime after August 1st before junior year). Agree that an unofficial visit isn't a waste of time if it's a school you have a serious interest in. It's a signal to the coaches that you _are_ serious and that you're likely to accept an offer should they make one. It can still be a big time and financial investment on your part, and there's (obviously) no guarantee that it moves the needle, but the school is telling you, "We're interested, you're on our radar, but you're not in our top 6-10 right now" so anything that might move you up a few spots can help.


----------



## espola

gkrent said:


> Official visits can only happen during the senior year, I believe, and all expenses including travel for Official visits are paid by the school
> 
> An invited unofficial is not a waste of and is often used when it's too early for the official visit to negotiate a commitment, but usually not paid for because of NCAA rules.
> 
> I'm not familiar with the timing of this stuff anymore as far as the NCAA rules go but this was the case a few years ago.


Another issue limiting official vs unofficial visits may be budget or regulatory limits imposed by the school on the coach and his program.


----------



## espola

KJR said:


> An official visit can now happen junior year, as well (anytime after August 1st before junior year). Agree that an unofficial visit isn't a waste of time if it's a school you have a serious interest in. It's a signal to the coaches that you _are_ serious and that you're likely to accept an offer should they make one. It can still be a big time and financial investment on your part, and there's (obviously) no guarantee that it moves the needle, but the school is telling you, "We're interested, you're on our radar, but you're not in our top 6-10 right now" so anything that might move you up a few spots can help.


Back in my son's being-recruited days, we arranged an unofficial visit to a distant school because they had expressed interest and we were attending a tournament within easy driving distance and the game schedule allowed a free afternoon.  We got the whole campus tour by the head coach -- I can't imagine that a formal visit could have been more thorough. In the long run, that school didn't work out, but it gave us some visibility into what a big-budget athletic program could provide.


----------



## Sike

Pretty sure recruits are also limited in the number of official visits they can go on (is it 5?), so an unofficial here or there might be a good chance to see a school without burning your officials.


----------



## Kicker 2.0

KJR said:


> An official visit can now happen junior year, as well (anytime after August 1st before junior year). Agree that an unofficial visit isn't a waste of time if it's a school you have a serious interest in. It's a signal to the coaches that you _are_ serious and that you're likely to accept an offer should they make one. It can still be a big time and financial investment on your part, and there's (obviously) no guarantee that it moves the needle, but the school is telling you, "We're interested, you're on our radar, but you're not in our top 6-10 right now" so anything that might move you up a few spots can help.


Yes it is true. My Dd took her official visit in early August before her Junior year started.


----------



## espola

A note about the transitory nature of athletic scholarships --









						Grambling State volleyball coach cuts her entire team
					

Listen to this article Grambling State Head Volleyball Coach Chelsey Lucas has cut her entire team from the roster according to multiple reports. All 19 players were notified on Monday […]




					vicksburgnews.com


----------



## socalkdg

Daughter has done two unofficial visits.   One was close, organized, and made sense to go unofficial.   One could have been official, our choice,  the school mentioned they like to bring in all verbal commits in September of their senior year for an official visit that they use for team bonding.   If she chooses that school she will go back again on their dime, without a parent.   You can also walk the campus of schools on your own to see if you like them.


----------



## Kicker 2.0

socalkdg said:


> Daughter has done two unofficial visits.   One was close, organized, and made sense to go unofficial.   One could have been official, our choice,  the school mentioned they like to bring in all verbal commits in September of their senior year for an official visit that they use for team bonding.   If she chooses that school she will go back again on their dime, without a parent.   You can also walk the campus of schools on your own to see if you like them.


We did a similar thing with my DD’s top 2 schools.  

Only took the official with her 1st choice.

Congratulations to your family and your DD!


----------



## MamaBear5

espola said:


> A note about the transitory nature of athletic scholarships --
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grambling State volleyball coach cuts her entire team
> 
> 
> Listen to this article Grambling State Head Volleyball Coach Chelsey Lucas has cut her entire team from the roster according to multiple reports. All 19 players were notified on Monday […]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vicksburgnews.com


Between stories like this and the multiple family friends kids who ended up at schools they don't like we are really pushing the kiddo to chase the school first, the soccer second. Our hopes is that somewhere in the top 5 schools the soccer will come. At the end of the day you have to be happy on campus and in class.


----------



## KJR

MamaBear5 said:


> Between stories like this and the multiple family friends kids who ended up at schools they don't like we are really pushing the kiddo to chase the school first, the soccer second. Our hopes is that somewhere in the top 5 schools the soccer will come. At the end of the day you have to be happy on campus and in class.


That's the most important thing: where is the best possible soccer experience for you... but if there's no soccer, for whatever reason, will you still want to be at the school?


----------



## youthsportsuggghhhhgghh

KJR said:


> That's the most important thing: where is the best possible soccer experience for you... but if there's no soccer, for whatever reason, will you still want to be at the school?


Yep -- school is most important out of the deal even if money is left on the table at another location, painful as that may be!


----------



## crush

youthsportsuggghhhhgghh said:


> Yep -- school is most important out of the deal even if money is left on the table at another location, painful as that may be!


I know at lest four players that had full ride ((soccer + grades)) offers this year because of soccer and they turn them down for the school of their dream or a school that is a better fit for their lifetime goals.


----------



## LetThemPlay

I remember reading the earliest posts in this thread about 5-6 years ago. My girl started her recruiting activities (sending out emails to college coaches) about a year ago (in the spring prior to starting her high school junior year), and although it was quite intense and stressful for 5 months, she was offered a verbal commitment from one of her "Top 3 Dream" D1 schools (consistently ranked in the Top 20 in various annual "Best Colleges" lists) that she never thought she would be able to get into with academics alone. So, of course, she accepted their offer! I feel very proud and very lucky that it worked out so well and so quickly for her. Meanwhile, other players on her team are now starting again to go through another recruiting cycle that's even more intense because it will coincide with college applications later this year.

Since I got so much useful info simply by reading many of the posts in this thread, I will do my best to reply to relevant posts (even from years ago) to highlight them or respond to any new questions.

A few bits of insight that I'm happy to share after being on this soccer journey with my daughter for 10+ years:

Appreciate every minute when you can watch her play or have a conversation with her (about soccer or anything else) -- the years go by very quickly, especially as she gets older and then starts to drive herself to trainings and games
Capture game videos rather than game photos if you can -- videos are much more effective for sharing with college coaches or just for replay to reminisce
Don't sweat the small stuff -- a bad ref call, a tight game that ended up a loss, she had a lousy game? These petty events don't matter compared to #1 above in the overall scheme of things. I used to be "that parent" during her U12 games -- pacing back and forth on the sideline, yelling "send it" (the 2nd most stupid thing a parent can say besides "push her back"), getting frustrated when she didn't start or got subbed out, etc. My best decision as a soccer parent was to "just shut up and enjoy watching the game" starting at U13. And I almost cried when she told me that she prefers having me drive her to games and be on the sideline rather than her Mom because she "yells too much."
Oh, did I mention appreciate every minute when you can watch her play?


----------



## LetThemPlay

socalkdg said:


> Daughter has done two unofficial visits.   One was close, organized, and made sense to go unofficial.   One could have been official, our choice,  the school mentioned they like to bring in all verbal commits in September of their senior year for an official visit that they use for team bonding.   If she chooses that school she will go back again on their dime, without a parent.   You can also walk the campus of schools on your own to see if you like them.


All 4-5 schools that were very interested in my daughter had the same approach with unofficial vs. official visits -- that is, they wanted to reserve the official visit only for the verbally committed players, and they strongly prefer to have as many of those players do the official visit during the same weekend.

A couple schools also arrange to have the unofficial visit happen on the same weekend for interested players -- even though the players could be competing for the same roster spot, my daughter said she actually enjoyed meeting and talking with other players during these unofficial visits.


----------



## crush

LetThemPlay said:


> I remember reading the earliest posts in this thread about 5-6 years ago. My girl started her recruiting activities (sending out emails to college coaches) about a year ago (in the spring prior to starting her high school junior year), and although it was quite intense and stressful for 5 months, she was offered a verbal commitment from one of her "Top 3 Dream" D1 schools (consistently ranked in the Top 20 in various annual "Best Colleges" lists) that she never thought she would be able to get into with academics alone. So, of course, she accepted their offer! I feel very proud and very lucky that it worked out so well and so quickly for her. Meanwhile, other players on her team are now starting again to go through another recruiting cycle that's even more intense because it will coincide with college applications later this year.
> 
> Since I got so much useful info simply by reading many of the posts in this thread, I will do my best to reply to relevant posts (even from years ago) to highlight them or respond to any new questions.
> 
> A few bits of insight that I'm happy to share after being on this soccer journey with my daughter for 10+ years:
> 
> Appreciate every minute when you can watch her play or have a conversation with her (about soccer or anything else) -- the years go by very quickly, especially as she gets older and then starts to drive herself to trainings and games
> Capture game videos rather than game photos if you can -- videos are much more effective for sharing with college coaches or just for replay to reminisce
> Don't sweat the small stuff -- a bad ref call, a tight game that ended up a loss, she had a lousy game? These petty events don't matter compared to #1 above in the overall scheme of things. I used to be "that parent" during her U12 games -- pacing back and forth on the sideline, yelling "send it" (the 2nd most stupid thing a parent can say besides "push her back"), getting frustrated when she didn't start or got subbed out, etc. My best decision as a soccer parent was to "just shut up and enjoy watching the game" starting at U13. And I almost cried when she told me that she prefers having me drive her to games and be on the sideline rather than her Mom because she "yells too much."
> Oh, did I mention appreciate every minute when you can watch her play?


Congrats on dream school for dd and 100% you did a super job dad and so did dd   I knew some mama bears who yelled a lot and the dads were chill.  I was a yeller until U16....lol!  My dd has three more matches that she has committed to and then no more club.  I watched a U10 game the other day for a few minutes after my dd U18/19 match up and I saw two dads that were pacing the sidelines hoping for a goal and a win.  One of them was screaming at the ref and I saw my past self.  I forgave myself for being way too into it, the winning part and the yelling at ref.  It was `100% wrong on my part.  U14 and younger was by far my most cherished times with my dd.  Soccer changed after that.  It became too much about the college deal and showcases, my poo   I wish I could say I just kept my mouth shut after U13.  Now I just sit and watch and cheer.  I'm driving her to her last practice


----------



## LetThemPlay

GT45 said:


> I don't think it is too long. They can stop watching it at anytime. If what you put on their is quality, then it is fine. But, if it is a lot of the same stuff over and over, then I would eliminate the redundacy.


My daughter used a somewhat hidden feature of YouTube (only available in full website) which allows sharing a video link that starts at a specific timemark. This is much easier/faster for her to put together a list of 5-6 "highlights" (each with a timemarked YouTube video link) to share with college coaches vs. downloading YouTube videos, clipping them, and joining them into a single highlight video.

A few of the coaches told her that they liked having the full video because if they wanted to see a bit more of the gameplay leading up to the highlight timemark, they can easily do that. Another fascinating insight I got is that coaches actually reacted to how my daughter would celebrate a goal she had scored or assisted vs. a goal that happened without any involvement from her -- she gets just as excited for her teammates to score/assist by running to them and hugging them as she would jump for joy and open her arms to receive hugs from her teammates after she scored/assisted. These "qualities" of a player, showing their love for the game and they camaraderie with teammates, are almost never in any highlight reels that I've seen nor would my daughter or I even think about putting into her highlight reel if we were to create one (fortunately, we never had to).


----------



## Simisoccerfan

LetThemPlay said:


> I remember reading the earliest posts in this thread about 5-6 years ago. My girl started her recruiting activities (sending out emails to college coaches) about a year ago (in the spring prior to starting her high school junior year), and although it was quite intense and stressful for 5 months, she was offered a verbal commitment from one of her "Top 3 Dream" D1 schools (consistently ranked in the Top 20 in various annual "Best Colleges" lists) that she never thought she would be able to get into with academics alone. So, of course, she accepted their offer! I feel very proud and very lucky that it worked out so well and so quickly for her. Meanwhile, other players on her team are now starting again to go through another recruiting cycle that's even more intense because it will coincide with college applications later this year.
> 
> Since I got so much useful info simply by reading many of the posts in this thread, I will do my best to reply to relevant posts (even from years ago) to highlight them or respond to any new questions.
> 
> A few bits of insight that I'm happy to share after being on this soccer journey with my daughter for 10+ years:
> 
> Appreciate every minute when you can watch her play or have a conversation with her (about soccer or anything else) -- the years go by very quickly, especially as she gets older and then starts to drive herself to trainings and games
> Capture game videos rather than game photos if you can -- videos are much more effective for sharing with college coaches or just for replay to reminisce
> Don't sweat the small stuff -- a bad ref call, a tight game that ended up a loss, she had a lousy game? These petty events don't matter compared to #1 above in the overall scheme of things. I used to be "that parent" during her U12 games -- pacing back and forth on the sideline, yelling "send it" (the 2nd most stupid thing a parent can say besides "push her back"), getting frustrated when she didn't start or got subbed out, etc. My best decision as a soccer parent was to "just shut up and enjoy watching the game" starting at U13. And I almost cried when she told me that she prefers having me drive her to games and be on the sideline rather than her Mom because she "yells too much."
> Oh, did I mention appreciate every minute when you can watch her play?


Sounds like your ready for the next chapter, the battle to travel and get playing time.  This is where you fully lose control since most coaches never talk to parents.   No matter what her playing experience is try to stay positive through the process and enjoy the ride.


----------



## LetThemPlay

GoldenGate said:


> Making a video serves a purpose in the right circumstances, but anyone who relies on video really far behind the eight ball.  What simisoccerfan said is the best advice anyone has given yet in this thread.  Recruiting can be very easy and straightforward if kid plays at a solid ECNL club for a respected coach.  College coaches show up in droves for good teams at showcases and will almost always pay close attention to a kid who has shown interest, at least if the club coach has recommended the player in advance and is respected enough for the college to know they don't oversell players.
> 
> Every dollar I paid for soccer was earned back 10x over when her coach sat us down to talk about her future, specifically college.  We talked about her interests, grades and test scores, and the colleges we were interested in for and their educational programs. We discussed how he anticipated she would fit in with different college coaches given their respective personalities and styles of play.  He knew everything, including the educational programs at every school we were interested in, and each of the college coaches personally including their personalities and style of play.  We discussed the schools he thought she might have a hard time getting playing time and the extent to which that even mattered to her if, for example, soccer was just her way to leverage getting admitted to Stanford.  He made calls to coaches at the schools we agreed were the best fits, every single one of them watched her team at a showcase a few weeks later and, in fact, 100 college coaches came to her team's games that weekend.  Within a month she had unofficial visits to two Ivies, two Pac-12s, and the one WCC that interested us.  There were no videos. There were no mass emails to college coaches.  This is not how things were done at her club because it was not necessary.  All it took was my daughter's hard work, excellent daily training and development, and a phone call.
> 
> It is painful seeing dads complain in the other thread that a club deserves to be in ECNL because it has a U14 team that beat a pre-ECNL team at Mustang. They have no idea what ECNL is about.  It isn't about 14 year old girls winning as many soccer games as possible.  Many of their daughters are 11, 12 or 13 and have the potential to leverage soccer into college opportunity that it beyond their parents' wildest dreams and the path is right there in front of them, but they will squander it.  When they claim a club in Modesto should be in ECNL over one like Santa Rosa United that has not won much for a long time, they have no clue. They don't understand that any 13 year old girl with potential who plays at Santa Rosa who is committed will develop into a solid college recruit even if they lose all their games.  They don't understand that this club has respected staff with a long history of developing kids who have ability, and who are respected by college coaches who will answer the phone and listen when they call based on mutual respect that has been earned over decades.  They fail to understand that there has been a single family connected with that club for so long, and who have contributed to developing and putting so many girls into high level programs that it is ridiculous, so much so that a kid is 75% of the way to an offer just because one of them made a phone call.  Whereas college coaches have dealt with unknown yahoo coaches trying to oversell players and waste their time their entire careers, and it is unlikely they will  even listen to the voicemail when some unknown phone number pops up.


I would agree with all of the points above and the intricacies of the recruiting process because my daughter's team coach as well as her club's ECNL Director were instrumental in preparing her and her teammates for the recruiting process, in mentoring her to refine/optimize conversations with interested college coaches, and in helping to "clinch" the offer for a verbal commitment that she happily accepted. Game videos had only supplemental value in the entire recruiting process.


----------



## LetThemPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> Sounds like your ready for the next chapter, the battle to travel and get playing time.  This is where you fully lose control since most coaches never talk to parents.   No matter what her playing experience is try to stay positive through the process and enjoy the ride.


I still have another year of her club and high school soccer to enjoy in person before she leaves the nest, and I'm going to cherish every minute of it.

Fortunately, her would be college has had most of their games available on ESPN+ (hope it'll remain the case going forward), so I'm expecting to be able to watch her virtually while she's in college. Regardless, my wife and I are already planning/budgeting to make at least 1-2 visits to watch her play in person (hopefully, she'll get some playtime at least pre-season if not during the season) and enjoy some vacation time while we're there.


----------



## GT45

LetThemPlay said:


> All 4-5 schools that were very interested in my daughter had the same approach with unofficial vs. official visits -- that is, they wanted to reserve the official visit only for the verbally committed players, and they strongly prefer to have as many of those players do the official visit during the same weekend.


This is a spin for the schools/coaches to save money. They only have to fly in the players who end up committing there, rather than spend their recruiting dollars on someone who may turn them down. If it is a flying trip and they are serious about you, they should be paying for an official visit. If you end up committing there, you can pay for an unofficial on the weekend that all of the commits go in her senior year.

For those that do not know, you can only take one official visit per school, and five total. So local schools make sense in many cases to take unofficially.


----------



## LetThemPlay

GT45 said:


> This is a spin for the schools/coaches to save money. They only have to fly in the players who end up committing there, rather than spend their recruiting dollars on someone who may turn them down. If it is a flying trip and they are serious about you, they should be paying for an official visit. If you end up committing there, you can pay for an unofficial on the weekend that all of the commits go in her senior year.
> 
> For those that do not know, you can only take one official visit per school, and five total. So local schools make sense in many cases to take unofficially.


Fair point about schools holding back official visits to save money. It's never a mistake to ask for an official visit if the school seems to be very interested in the player. However, if the player is very interested in the school, then I wouldn't wait for the official visit if the cost for the unofficial visit is manageable, especially if there are other schools offering unofficial visits. In the recruiting process, it's helpful to experience as much of the school, coaching staff, and team -- in person -- as soon as possible in order to make comparisons and pros/cons.


----------



## socalkdg

Sad news my daughter never got a chance to do an official visit with any colleges.  

Great news she accepted an offer today.   Had two showcases the past two weekends, one where she guest played with another team at ManCity Cup, then with her club team at Legends Showcase.    Between all the videos she has on her YouTube channel,  keeping her Instagram updated (with my videos), our club coaches helping out, and constant badgering with emails (until they say they aren't interested, keep coming up with reasons to email).

She thought she wanted to go out of state and visited on school and they liked her a lot, but she realized she felt too far away from home, plus summers would cut dramatically with "Optional player led training starting in June".   Additionally coming from socal she loves the diversity of our great state and didn't feel that at the school.  About this time she also felt she had a clear number one locally.

Fast forward to her sending out about 25 emails before the first showcase (then having field times and numbers changing so she had to send out emails again.)  She also opened up about the possibility of playing D2, and wasn't as high on her number one because she didn't feel any love coming from the coaching staff.   Some new schools joined in on the pursuit, including Cal who she had some wonderful conversations with their keeper coach.  One school had three coaches watch her this past weekend, spoke with her club coaches, and then spoke to her and another player on her team.  She really liked them.  Also turns out they had ECNL games there this weekend as well, so many of the coaches had a chance to watch their games besides showcase games.  This was important because the school that had watched her was able to see other keepers during the same weekend. 

Monday after the tourney they texted and asked if she could come for a tour Wednesday (today).  It was separate from her teammate who will come see them next week and it makes sense as they don't want players knowing what other players are getting, plus each player has different needs.   She did a two hour tour with 3 current players, then 1 hour with the head coach and my wife.  (I never get to go to these, probably for the better). They told her she was the best keeper they had seen, they want to sign immediately,  and they expect her to compete with the senior keeper her freshman year.  They then made a great offer(better than I expected).   For some reason they said they wanted to talk to me.   They called, told me everything, and I asked my daughter if there was anything about the school she didn't' like.  She said everything was great and wanted to say yes but mom said wait for dad.  

After hearing all the details my daughter texted him, he called back, and she accepted the offer.(FYI kids and parents should not share exact details, my wife was going to tell her Dad and I had to remind her that he will end up telling everyone on the team at one of the games).  He then called her club coach to let him know.  Haven't seen my wife and kid this happy in a long time and great to know we still have 1 more year of club, 1 year of High School, and then 4 years of college.   Thanks to everyone that has given advice on her and I'll continue to share as well.


----------



## Dubs

socalkdg said:


> Sad news my daughter never got a chance to do an official visit with any colleges.
> 
> Great news she accepted an offer today.   Had two showcases the past two weekends, one where she guest played with another team at ManCity Cup, then with her club team at Legends Showcase.    Between all the videos she has on her YouTube channel,  keeping her Instagram updated (with my videos), our club coaches helping out, and constant badgering with emails (until they say they aren't interested, keep coming up with reasons to email).
> 
> She thought she wanted to go out of state and visited on school and they liked her a lot, but she realized she felt too far away from home, plus summers would cut dramatically with "Optional player led training starting in June".   Additionally coming from socal she loves the diversity of our great state and didn't feel that at the school.  About this time she also felt she had a clear number one locally.
> 
> Fast forward to her sending out about 25 emails before the first showcase (then having field times and numbers changing so she had to send out emails again.)  She also opened up about the possibility of playing D2, and wasn't as high on her number one because she didn't feel any love coming from the coaching staff.   Some new schools joined in on the pursuit, including Cal who she had some wonderful conversations with their keeper coach.  One school had three coaches watch her this past weekend, spoke with her club coaches, and then spoke to her and another player on her team.  She really liked them.  Also turns out they had ECNL games there this weekend as well, so many of the coaches had a chance to watch their games besides showcase games.  This was important because the school that had watched her was able to see other keepers during the same weekend.
> 
> Monday after the tourney they texted and asked if she could come for a tour Wednesday (today).  It was separate from her teammate who will come see them next week and it makes sense as they don't want players knowing what other players are getting, plus each player has different needs.   She did a two hour tour with 3 current players, then 1 hour with the head coach and my wife.  (I never get to go to these, probably for the better). They told her she was the best keeper they had seen, they want to sign immediately,  and they expect her to compete with the senior keeper her freshman year.  They then made a great offer(better than I expected).   For some reason they said they wanted to talk to me.   They called, told me everything, and I asked my daughter if there was anything about the school she didn't' like.  She said everything was great and wanted to say yes but mom said wait for dad.
> 
> After hearing all the details my daughter texted him, he called back, and she accepted the offer.(FYI kids and parents should not share exact details, my wife was going to tell her Dad and I had to remind her that he will end up telling everyone on the team at one of the games).  He then called her club coach to let him know.  Haven't seen my wife and kid this happy in a long time and great to know we still have 1 more year of club, 1 year of High School, and then 4 years of college.   Thanks to everyone that has given advice on her and I'll continue to share as well.
> vm


Congrats!  It really is a fantastic moment that you will all hold close as a family memory.  Now the REAL works starts.  Stay focused cause it only gets tougher.


----------



## justneededaname

I feel like we am just starting out, maybe we are in the thick of it, but here is what I have learned so far. I guess I am sharing it in case there is something that is just wrong, or there is something obvious that I am missing.

1. You're kid has to know what they are selling. Are they a soccer player who is decent academically, or an academic who also is decent at soccer. Different schools want different things.

My kid is selling a soccer player who is good enough academically that most coaches will feel comfortable they can get them through admissions.

2. Figuring out what your kid is looking for is important because the task is simply too big to not have a way to narrow it down. Do they: 

Want to play soccer at any school that will take them
Want to play soccer at any school that will pay them
Want to play soccer, but only at specific schools
Want to go to a specific school or region and would prefer to play soccer if they can

My kid wants to stay in a specific geographic region. If they can play soccer, great! But they are not willing to go outside that region for soccer only. The one caveat being they "want to go somewhere unique. I don't know what that means but I think I will know it when I see it."

My kid's desired region made it easy to make a list of all the soccer schools in the region. There was the email list. Because of the "unique" thing, I have also added some places to the list that I think might fall into that category, based on 16 years experience with my kid.

3. You have to be honest about your kid's soccer resume and what level your kid plays at: DI, DII, DIII ... nowhere. I don't think you really know that until you start emailing and see who responds back. For my kid it became clear pretty fast.

4. The email subject line matters. It has to give them a reason to want to learn a little more.

5. Unweighted GPA seems to matter more than weighted. Every coach knows exactly what an unweighted GPA means. Weighed needs to have a lot of questions answered. The response rate went up a lot when my kid made that change.

6. Camps are pretty much worthless unless you have been invited. And like a personal invitation directed right at your kid and not from the list they got on for filling out the recruiting form. The biggest reason the camps are worthless is not a lot of people are honest in their answer to number 3. 

7. The team they play on matters. I wish it didn't matter as much as it does, but it does. It isn't a deal killer, but it is definitely a deal starter.

8. Your kid can take time off and it will be OK. At the end of middle school my kid took 6 months off completely and another 12 months away from playing at a high level. It is working out.

9. If you have a boy, they are lying when they say you can't play high school. Sometimes that opens more doors than it closes. You have to evaluate your situation.


----------



## KJR

justneededaname said:


> I feel like we am just starting out, maybe we are in the thick of it, but here is what I have learned so far. I guess I am sharing it in case there is something that is just wrong, or there is something obvious that I am missing.
> 
> 1. You're kid has to know what they are selling. Are they a soccer player who is decent academically, or an academic who also is decent at soccer. Different schools want different things.
> 
> My kid is selling a soccer player who is good enough academically that most coaches will feel comfortable they can get them through admissions.
> 
> 2. Figuring out what your kid is looking for is important because the task is simply too big to not have a way to narrow it down. Do they:
> 
> Want to play soccer at any school that will take them
> Want to play soccer at any school that will pay them
> Want to play soccer, but only at specific schools
> Want to go to a specific school or region and would prefer to play soccer if they can
> 
> My kid wants to stay in a specific geographic region. If they can play soccer, great! But they are not willing to go outside that region for soccer only. The one caveat being they "want to go somewhere unique. I don't know what that means but I think I will know it when I see it."
> 
> My kid's desired region made it easy to make a list of all the soccer schools in the region. There was the email list. Because of the "unique" thing, I have also added some places to the list that I think might fall into that category, based on 16 years experience with my kid.
> 
> 3. You have to be honest about your kid's soccer resume and what level your kid plays at: DI, DII, DIII ... nowhere. I don't think you really know that until you start emailing and see who responds back. For my kid it became clear pretty fast.
> 
> 4. The email subject line matters. It has to give them a reason to want to learn a little more.
> 
> 5. Unweighted GPA seems to matter more than weighted. Every coach knows exactly what an unweighted GPA means. Weighed needs to have a lot of questions answered. The response rate went up a lot when my kid made that change.
> 
> 6. Camps are pretty much worthless unless you have been invited. And like a personal invitation directed right at your kid and not from the list they got on for filling out the recruiting form. The biggest reason the camps are worthless is not a lot of people are honest in their answer to number 3.
> 
> 7. The team they play on matters. I wish it didn't matter as much as it does, but it does. It isn't a deal killer, but it is definitely a deal starter.
> 
> 8. Your kid can take time off and it will be OK. At the end of middle school my kid took 6 months off completely and another 12 months away from playing at a high level. It is working out.
> 
> 9. If you have a boy, they are lying when they say you can't play high school. Sometimes that opens more doors than it closes. You have to evaluate your situation.


I don't think there's one path for recruiting, so I appreciate that your experience is yours. I will say that ID camps (hosted by schools, not the big ones that promise "lots of coaches") were incredibly valuable to some of the girls on our team, who walked in unknown and ended up getting commitments--and these were at top-20 DI programs. 

But I totally agree that you and your kid have to be objective about what level they can compete at--and also what level they _want to_ compete at. Otherwise you're setting yourselves up for disappointment. Maybe your kid could play DI but wants the chance to do a semester abroad in college, or not have soccer be, essentially, a job. DII or DIII isn't "less" than DI if that's what will make your kid happy continuing to play.

This was our club's first year going through recruiting, and we're continuing to learn a lot that will, we think (hope), help our next teams to go through it. I've thought about sharing some of it here, but--again--every player/team/club is different. And I don't want to pretend to be an expert about it. But no coach (no matter what they say in the parking lot when they're trying to poach you after a game) is going to talk a college coach into taking player they don't believe in. There's no magic wand the club can wave (no matter what they have on their website about their "college pathway") to get their players recruited. We've played plenty of ECNL/GA girls who haven't had any contact with a college yet. The team and the club can offer a platform, a coach can put a kid on a college's radar, but the kid has to play their way onto the short list (and then have the grades to get through admissions.) Ultimately the process should be a partnership between the player, the club, and the team.


----------



## GT45

I would love to know more about this because I am struggling to beleive it. Your club's 'first year of going through recruiting' is curious in itself. Then you tell us that you have players "who walked in unknown [ID camps] and ended up getting commitments--and these were at top-20 DI programs.

Would love to know which Top 20 D1 programs are recruiting unknown non-ECNL GA players at random ID camps. Pretty unheard of for one kid to get such an offer, let alone multiple ones.


----------



## KJR

GT45 said:


> I would love to know more about this because I am struggling to beleive it. Your club's 'first year of going through recruiting' is curious in itself. Then you tell us that you have players "who walked in unknown [ID camps] and ended up getting commitments--and these were at top-20 DI programs.
> 
> Would love to know which Top 20 D1 programs are recruiting unknown non-ECNL GA players at random ID camps. Pretty unheard of for one kid to get such an offer, let alone multiple ones.


Would love to enlighten you but I'd rather not share recruiting information about girls who may not want it public yet (or whose schools are not letting them announce on social media yet). We'll be announcing our commitments when it's appropriate. We started our club in 2017; our 2005s are our first (and oldest) team--hence the first to go through recruiting. So: not very curious. 

When my daughter went to a top 20 school's camp on the East Coast last summer, the coaches thought her club training shirt was an LA streetwear brand. They had no idea who she was or who we were. Eight months later she committed to them.

As I mentioned above, our experience may not match everyone else's. I'm not saying that _all_ non-ECNL/non-GA players are being recruited at top programs (or being discovered in ID camps.) But if you can develop players who are good enough to compete on those teams, you don't have to be ECNL or GA to get on coaches' radar. It's... kind of the whole point of our club.


----------



## GT45

So your club is Tudela. Let's be honest then. You have an outlier team, and a coach with connections. I still doubt you have multiple players who showed up randomly at ID camps and received offers from them. Top 20 programs do not offer kids without watching them in games for starters.


----------



## KJR

GT45 said:


> So your club is Tudela. Let's be honest then. You have an outlier team, and a coach with connections. I still doubt you have multiple players who showed up randomly at ID camps and received offers from them. Top 20 programs do not offer kids without watching them in games for starters.


Yes. Our club is the logo in my profile picture--congratulations on figuring it out. The fact that you think a commitment to developing players makes us an "outlier" is part of the problem with youth soccer, and (again) kind of the whole point of our club. The fact that the only thing you can imagine is that a club coach needs "connections" to generate interest in his players is both predictable and, frankly, disappointing.

As for your other doubts? I never said that girls received offers _at_ the ID camps--only that the camps were helpful. They got our girls on coaches' short lists, which started the process that led to offers. In my kid's case (as I wrote) it was eight months later, after seeing her play--and after she got offers from two rival programs. The reason I brought it up was to respond to someone else's impression that camps are useless unless a kid has been specifically invited to attend. In my experience, I don't necessarily agree and wanted to share that, because this thread is called "Recruiting Tips for Parents Just Starting the Process." 

Feel free to start another thread called, "I Don't Believe What People Say." But don't misrepresent me just because there's a narrative you want to cling to.

Best of luck with the rest of your youth soccer journey.


----------



## GT45

KJR said:


> Yes. Our club is the logo in my profile picture--congratulations on figuring it out. The fact that you think a commitment to developing players makes us an "outlier" is part of the problem with youth soccer, and (again) kind of the whole point of our club. The fact that the only thing you can imagine is that a club coach needs "connections" to generate interest in his players is both predictable and, frankly, disappointing.
> 
> As for your other doubts? I never said that girls received offers _at_ the ID camps--only that the camps were helpful. They got our girls on coaches' short lists, which started the process that led to offers. In my kid's case (as I wrote) it was eight months later, after seeing her play--and after she got offers from two rival programs. The reason I brought it up was to respond to someone else's impression that camps are useless unless a kid has been specifically invited to attend. In my experience, I don't necessarily agree and wanted to share that, because this thread is called "Recruiting Tips for Parents Just Starting the Process."
> 
> Feel free to start another thread called, "I Don't Believe What People Say." But don't misrepresent me just because there's a narrative you want to cling to.
> 
> Best of luck with the rest of your youth soccer journey.


I am not on a soccer journey. I have been doing this a long time though with multiple kids going through the process. I don't look at logos on here. I read the threads and comment. Your post was misleading to people, and that was why I commented. 99% of the players who go to these ID camps in search of a top 20 Division I offer are not going to get a legit look. So let's be honest with parents on here. The first person who detailed how ID camps can benefit was right. Your response was giving false hope to people in my opinion. ID camps can benefit. But showing up as a random person at University of Top 20 program, is not likely to work for almost everyone.

When I said your club is an outlier, it is. It is a strong club that doesn't play ECNL or GA. That is an outlier. 99% of the top 20 college level female youth players play in those leagues. So your team/club is an outlier. That is not a negative term so not sure why you are defensive about that. My kids club is a top ECNL club. They develop players too.


----------



## KJR

GT45 said:


> I am not on a soccer journey. I have been doing this a long time though with multiple kids going through the process. I don't look at logos on here. I read the threads and comment. Your post was misleading to people, and that was why I commented. 99% of the players who go to these ID camps in search of a top 20 Division I offer are not going to get a legit look. So let's be honest with parents on here. The first person who detailed how ID camps can benefit was right. Your response was giving false hope to people in my opinion. ID camps can benefit. But showing up as a random person at University of Top 20 program, is not likely to work for almost everyone.
> 
> When I said your club is an outlier, it is. It is a strong club that doesn't play ECNL or GA. That is an outlier. 99% of the top 20 college level female youth players play in those leagues. So your team/club is an outlier. That is not a negative term so not sure why you are defensive about that. My kids club is a top ECNL club. They develop players too.


Apologies to anyone who can't read and was misled by:* "I don't think there's one path for recruiting, so I appreciate that your experience is yours. I will say that ID camps (hosted by schools, not the big ones that promise "lots of coaches") were incredibly valuable to some of the girls on our team."*

Sincerely regret not being honest with parents on here when I wrote: *"I totally agree that you and your kid have to be objective about what level they can compete at--and also what level they want to compete at. Otherwise you're setting yourselves up for disappointment."*

Maybe I was distracted by noticing users' logos instead of just commenting on posts I sort-of read. That's clearly the way a veteran youth soccer parent does it.

Is your big "gotcha" point that it's difficult to get recruited by a top DI program? Because that's blindingly obvious to everyone. It's just numbers. Pretty sure I didn't promise people that they could just roll up and have things work out, no matter what club they come from (btw, I saw plenty of kids from "top ECNL clubs" trudging off the field after ID camp scrimmages, complaining to their parents that they'd been put on bad teams and hadn't been able to show well.) Most of our girls weren't looking for top-20 teams, but they found it useful to target the ID camps of schools they were interested in and go--even if they weren't explicitly invited by the coach. It shows interest in the program and can get you on the coach's radar more effectively than emails/highlight videos (which coaches often go back and look at after they've seen you at their camp, even if they missed it the first time.) So, for _Parents Just Starting the Process_, consider that. Or don't. It's different for everyone, as I stated above, for those who missed it the first time. Or second, third, or fourth times.

Have a great Sunday, everyone. I'm off this thread.


----------



## FilpoFutbol9

KJR said:


> Apologies to anyone who can't read and was misled by:* "I don't think there's one path for recruiting, so I appreciate that your experience is yours. I will say that ID camps (hosted by schools, not the big ones that promise "lots of coaches") were incredibly valuable to some of the girls on our team."*
> 
> Sincerely regret not being honest with parents on here when I wrote: *"I totally agree that you and your kid have to be objective about what level they can compete at--and also what level they want to compete at. Otherwise you're setting yourselves up for disappointment."*
> 
> Maybe I was distracted by noticing users' logos instead of just commenting on posts I sort-of read. That's clearly the way a veteran youth soccer parent does it.
> 
> Is your big "gotcha" point that it's difficult to get recruited by a top DI program? Because that's blindingly obvious to everyone. It's just numbers. Pretty sure I didn't promise people that they could just roll up and have things work out, no matter what club they come from (btw, I saw plenty of kids from "top ECNL clubs" trudging off the field after ID camp scrimmages, complaining to their parents that they'd been put on bad teams and hadn't been able to show well.) Most of our girls weren't looking for top-20 teams, but they found it useful to target the ID camps of schools they were interested in and go--even if they weren't explicitly invited by the coach. It shows interest in the program and can get you on the coach's radar more effectively than emails/highlight videos (which coaches often go back and look at after they've seen you at their camp, even if they missed it the first time.) So, for _Parents Just Starting the Process_, consider that. Or don't. It's different for everyone, as I stated above, for those who missed it the first time. Or second, third, or fourth times.
> 
> Have a great Sunday, everyone. I'm off this thread.


yo i appreciate you sharing your teams experience. the dude went from not believing you to acting like you'd hidden your identity to saying you misled everyone. i got what you were saying and have heard the same thing from other people. anyway congrats to your dd and her teammates. no jealousy here! ok maybe a little but i've seen yr team play


----------



## socalkdg

Wait, we have Logos?   S is my logo, cool. 

Let’s be nice to each other.  Tudela is a newer small club that is achieving ECNL results.  

First, if you are really good and you play on a ECNL or GA team, you have advantages.   I noticed these during the recruiting process and this included recruiting from ECNL teams to join them.  Any coach that watched my kid was usually impressed, but ECNL/GA gets 10x as many coaches watching.  I could not convince my daughter to switch, and the happiness of our kids is really the most important thing here.   

Second, Tudela is a great team and the girls have committed to some good colleges (not sure why the college hasn’t wanted them to social media yet, my daughters school said post everywhere - silly kid wants it to be perfect and didn’t want it to interfere with some of her other posts - should post tomorrow).  My daughter has played against Tudela, played with a few of the girls, been recruited by them and been recruited by their current top rival.  

That brings me to my third point.  LAFC beat Tudela, won NPL division and advanced to Colorado.  They aren’t having their girls being recruited like Tudela so Tudela is doing something right.  I figure just as ECNL gets 100 coaches to watch just because they are ECNL, Tudela has a product that has built in advantages as well.  

Lastly,  you still need to communicate with these coaches.  A bigger camp can be successful if they know your kid is coming and have shown some interest in email conversations.  If your kid is the best one out there they also notice.  Email after the camp each coach.   A smaller one college camp is great as well if interaction has advanced to text, phone or zoom calls and mutual interest.  

The bottom line is my kid chose a school where she knows they love her based on the attention and offer they gave her and the expectations they have for her.  She now must prepare during the next year to compete for a starting job her first year in college.


----------



## socalkdg

This last year of club and High School will be so different not worrying about recruiting.   Should be exciting.


----------



## Soccer43

GT45 said:


> I am not on a soccer journey. I have been doing this a long time though with multiple kids going through the process. I don't look at logos on here. I read the threads and comment. Your post was misleading to people, and that was why I commented. 99% of the players who go to these ID camps in search of a top 20 Division I offer are not going to get a legit look. So let's be honest with parents on here. The first person who detailed how ID camps can benefit was right. Your response was giving false hope to people in my opinion. ID camps can benefit. But showing up as a random person at University of Top 20 program, is not likely to work for almost everyone.
> 
> When I said your club is an outlier, it is. It is a strong club that doesn't play ECNL or GA. That is an outlier. 99% of the top 20 college level female youth players play in those leagues. So your team/club is an outlier. That is not a negative term so not sure why you are defensive about that. My kids club is a top ECNL club. They develop players too.


Agree 100% with what GT45 said.  If your coach doesn’t have college connections it isn’t going to happen.  I have been through this process with  couple players.  Are there times that an anomyly can happen? Of course, but please be honest for parents on this forum and don’t give false impressions.  For the majority of players if they aren’t on an ECNL team or don’t have a coach with connections you can attend every camp in town and be amazing and you still can’t get the coaches attention at a top 25 program.  There are too many amazing players to select from.  I do believe there is a place for every decent player in college if you work hard at this process but you have to be flexible and open to options- not too 25 D1 programs.


----------



## FilpoFutbol9

Soccer43 said:


> Agree 100% with what GT45 said.  If your coach doesn’t have college connections it isn’t going to happen.  I have been through this process with  couple players.  Are there times that an anomyly can happen? Of course, but please be honest for parents on this forum and don’t give false impressions.  For the majority of players if they aren’t on an ECNL team or don’t have a coach with connections you can attend every camp in town and be amazing and you still can’t get the coaches attention at a top 25 program.  There are too many amazing players to select from.  I do believe there is a place for every decent player in college if you work hard at this process but you have to be flexible and open to options- not too 25 D1 programs.


so... you agree 100% with what kjr said

smh nobody reads

been off the board for a while now i remember why!


----------



## GT45

KJR said:


> Apologies to anyone who can't read and was misled by:* "I don't think there's one path for recruiting, so I appreciate that your experience is yours. I will say that ID camps (hosted by schools, not the big ones that promise "lots of coaches") were incredibly valuable to some of the girls on our team."*
> 
> Sincerely regret not being honest with parents on here when I wrote: *"I totally agree that you and your kid have to be objective about what level they can compete at--and also what level they want to compete at. Otherwise you're setting yourselves up for disappointment."*
> 
> Maybe I was distracted by noticing users' logos instead of just commenting on posts I sort-of read. That's clearly the way a veteran youth soccer parent does it.
> 
> Is your big "gotcha" point that it's difficult to get recruited by a top DI program? Because that's blindingly obvious to everyone. It's just numbers. Pretty sure I didn't promise people that they could just roll up and have things work out, no matter what club they come from (btw, I saw plenty of kids from "top ECNL clubs" trudging off the field after ID camp scrimmages, complaining to their parents that they'd been put on bad teams and hadn't been able to show well.) Most of our girls weren't looking for top-20 teams, but they found it useful to target the ID camps of schools they were interested in and go--even if they weren't explicitly invited by the coach. It shows interest in the program and can get you on the coach's radar more effectively than emails/highlight videos (which coaches often go back and look at after they've seen you at their camp, even if they missed it the first time.) So, for _Parents Just Starting the Process_, consider that. Or don't. It's different for everyone, as I stated above, for those who missed it the first time. Or second, third, or fourth times.
> 
> Have a great Sunday, everyone. I'm off this thread.


I did not say that top kids in ECNL programs are any more fortunate at these ID camps. I said it is that way for 99% of youth soccer players. Your condescending persona is unimpressive. You are the one who implied that your club 'develops' players. As if the others do not.


----------



## GT45

FilpoFutbol9 said:


> yo i appreciate you sharing your teams experience. the dude went from not believing you to acting like you'd hidden your identity to saying you misled everyone. i got what you were saying and have heard the same thing from other people. anyway congrats to your dd and her teammates. no jealousy here! ok maybe a little but i've seen yr team play


Are you serious??? I simply tried to simmer the hope that kids will get top 20 offers out of random ID camps. Turns out they conceded that was correct. I did not say they hid their identity. I said I wanted to learn more about their situation. I also did not say they misled everyone. 

Feel free to dump money into ID camps. I promise it will be a bad investment in 9 out of 10 of them. But, the coaches will appreciate your donation to their checking account.


----------



## Soccer43

FilpoFutbol9 said:


> so... you agree 100% with what kjr said
> 
> smh nobody reads
> 
> been off the board for a while now i remember why!


Ummm, talking about not reading?  I clearly quoted GT45 and stated I agreed with GT45 - not sure what you are talking about SMH


----------



## Messi>CR7

How effective are these camps (individual school or multi schools) for top D3 or lower level D1 schools?


----------



## socalkdg

You need to communicate with these coaches that will be at the camp.  A bigger camp can be successful if they know your kid is coming and have shown some interest in email conversations, watched some highlights.  Also, if you want to go far away, some of these camps are the only way to meet these coaches in person without spending lots of travel money.   I liked the 5-12 coaches camps much more than the 25-50 coaches. 

If your kid is the best one out there they also notice. Make sure your kid talks to the coaches they are interested in.  Some will be interested and tell you to contact them.  Email after the camp each coach.  Set up a zoom call to discuss the college, what they are looking for, and what your player if looking for.

A one college camp is great as well if interaction has advanced to text, phone or zoom calls and mutual interest.   This is where you hope to seal the deal.   You kid will know if the college is the right one.   How is the whole coaching staff, how are the current players since they usually help out.  Afterwards should be a conversation between player and coach on what is the next step, are you looking for a 2024 striker and do you think there is a spot for me.   Then email/text afterwards, and close the deal.

Lower D1, D2, D3 and NAIA may use this camp to make their final decisions.   The closer the camp, the more you should go to.   If you have to fly to a camp, you better be sure to have already spoken with them, gauged thier interest in your player and your players interest in the school, the go if you feel you are close with the college.


----------



## Emma

FilpoFutbol9 said:


> yo i appreciate you sharing your teams experience. the dude went from not believing you to acting like you'd hidden your identity to saying you misled everyone. i got what you were saying and have heard the same thing from other people. anyway congrats to your dd and her teammates. no jealousy here! ok maybe a little but i've seen yr team play


We've heard of a few strong teams who have chosen to stay together with good coaches, have the same results as yours, with or without ECNL/GA.   The key is being realistic about the quality of your child's soccer skills.  A lot of parents who bring kids to Soccer ID camps are unrealistic but a few are true ballers from smallers clubs and the coaches can see it.   Coaches use the ID camp experience to connect with the few stars at the camps and follow their games to see how they play in their high school and club games.  Yes, 99% of kids that go to strong college soccer programs have no chance at all because their soccer skills are not at that level but if coaches see the 1% player, they will follow up.


----------



## Emma

Messi>CR7 said:


> How effective are these camps (individual school or multi schools) for top D3 or lower level D1 schools?


According to college coaches we know, the camps are as effective as the quality of the soccer player, the player's academic fit, and the follow up after the camp.  99% of players who go to Soccer ID camps, will not get recruited because their soccer skills are not a good fit.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

socalkdg said:


> Sad news my daughter never got a chance to do an official visit with any colleges.
> 
> Great news she accepted an offer today.   Had two showcases the past two weekends, one where she guest played with another team at ManCity Cup, then with her club team at Legends Showcase.    Between all the videos she has on her YouTube channel,  keeping her Instagram updated (with my videos), our club coaches helping out, and constant badgering with emails (until they say they aren't interested, keep coming up with reasons to email).
> 
> She thought she wanted to go out of state and visited on school and they liked her a lot, but she realized she felt too far away from home, plus summers would cut dramatically with "Optional player led training starting in June".   Additionally coming from socal she loves the diversity of our great state and didn't feel that at the school.  About this time she also felt she had a clear number one locally.
> 
> Fast forward to her sending out about 25 emails before the first showcase (then having field times and numbers changing so she had to send out emails again.)  She also opened up about the possibility of playing D2, and wasn't as high on her number one because she didn't feel any love coming from the coaching staff.   Some new schools joined in on the pursuit, including Cal who she had some wonderful conversations with their keeper coach.  One school had three coaches watch her this past weekend, spoke with her club coaches, and then spoke to her and another player on her team.  She really liked them.  Also turns out they had ECNL games there this weekend as well, so many of the coaches had a chance to watch their games besides showcase games.  This was important because the school that had watched her was able to see other keepers during the same weekend.
> 
> Monday after the tourney they texted and asked if she could come for a tour Wednesday (today).  It was separate from her teammate who will come see them next week and it makes sense as they don't want players knowing what other players are getting, plus each player has different needs.   She did a two hour tour with 3 current players, then 1 hour with the head coach and my wife.  (I never get to go to these, probably for the better). They told her she was the best keeper they had seen, they want to sign immediately,  and they expect her to compete with the senior keeper her freshman year.  They then made a great offer(better than I expected).   For some reason they said they wanted to talk to me.   They called, told me everything, and I asked my daughter if there was anything about the school she didn't' like.  She said everything was great and wanted to say yes but mom said wait for dad.
> 
> After hearing all the details my daughter texted him, he called back, and she accepted the offer.(FYI kids and parents should not share exact details, my wife was going to tell her Dad and I had to remind her that he will end up telling everyone on the team at one of the games).  He then called her club coach to let him know.  Haven't seen my wife and kid this happy in a long time and great to know we still have 1 more year of club, 1 year of High School, and then 4 years of college.   Thanks to everyone that has given advice on her and I'll continue to share as well.


Congrats!  What school will she be attending?


----------



## oh canada

Emma said:


> The key is being realistic about the quality of your child's soccer skills. A lot of parents who bring kids to Soccer ID camps are unrealistic but a few are true ballers from smallers clubs and the coaches can see it.


This 100%. Unfortunately, most parents--even at U17--still don't understand the difference between an average player, good player, and great player. To the surprise of many parents, merely playing for a "top" team or club doesn't affect a college coach's opinion re player ability.


----------



## Sike

Aside from just asking the coaches directly, is there a way to find out which schools use the max number of scholarships allowed and which aren't fully funded? To put it a different way, I assume some D1 schools can't afford to fund the 14 max scholarships allowed for womens soccer per NCAA rules, so they only use some portion of the 14? Or some D2 schools can't afford the 10 allowed?


----------



## dk_b

Sike said:


> Aside from just asking the coaches directly, is there a way to find out which schools use the max number of scholarships allowed and which aren't fully funded? To put it a different way, I assume some D1 schools can't afford to fund the 14 max scholarships allowed for womens soccer per NCAA rules, so they only use some portion of the 14? Or some D2 schools can't afford the 10 allowed?


I would not trust anyone other than a coach or administrator (if you know a player on the team, I'd use that for corroboration but I would not bank on the player as controlling info unless I 2d sourced through a coach/administrator and I'd treat any parent's information as "likely" at best). It's a critical question, especially if the player is considering a state school that is not in his/her home state since that can impact the extent of funding. The only thing I know about my own kid's school is what her offer/award was/is. Beyond her award, I don't know if they fully fund up to 14 although I believe they do (any school that has FBS football probably funds all 14 scholarships BUT whether it is in-state or includes out-of-state would be a question to ask, I'd think)


----------



## Simisoccerfan

The athletic scholarship side is a black hole.  Teammates don't discuss it with each other nor do most parents.  Impossible to find published data too.   The only thing you can trust is the deal presented to your kid.  It is also not the norm for scholarships to be guaranteed for 4 years.   I believe only the Power 5 and Notre Dame guarantee scholarships.   At most colleges it is renewed annually and can change.   Even in the Power 5 schools coaches can pressure players to transfer.  Also don't believe parents that say their kid got a full athletic scholarship for soccer.   That is exceedingly rare.


----------



## dk_b

Simisoccerfan said:


> The athletic scholarship side is a black hole.  Teammates don't discuss it with each other nor do most parents.  Impossible to find published data too.   The only thing you can trust is the deal presented to your kid.  It is also not the norm for scholarships to be guaranteed for 4 years.   I believe only the Power 5 and Notre Dame guarantee scholarships.   At most colleges it is renewed annually and can change.   Even in the Power 5 schools coaches can pressure players to transfer.  Also don't believe parents that say their kid got a full athletic scholarship for soccer.   That is exceedingly rare.


I agree with this 100%


----------



## youthsportsuggghhhhgghh

Simisoccerfan said:


> The athletic scholarship side is a black hole.  Teammates don't discuss it with each other nor do most parents.  Impossible to find published data too.   The only thing you can trust is the deal presented to your kid.  It is also not the norm for scholarships to be guaranteed for 4 years.   I believe only the Power 5 and Notre Dame guarantee scholarships.   At most colleges it is renewed annually and can change.   Even in the Power 5 schools coaches can pressure players to transfer.  Also don't believe parents that say their kid got a full athletic scholarship for soccer.   That is exceedingly rare.


I agree -- my daughter has several teammates playing college soccer from D1 to D3 and the only thing we absolutely know is that the Ivy league doesn't give athletic scholarships! We also think we know that scholarships are done on an annual basis and nothing else


----------



## paytoplayisgood

KJR said:


> Yes. Our club is the logo in my profile picture--congratulations on figuring it out. The fact that you think a commitment to developing players makes us an "outlier" is part of the problem with youth soccer, and (again) kind of the whole point of our club. The fact that the only thing you can imagine is that a club coach needs "connections" to generate interest in his players is both predictable and, frankly, disappointing.
> 
> As for your other doubts? I never said that girls received offers _at_ the ID camps--only that the camps were helpful. They got our girls on coaches' short lists, which started the process that led to offers. In my kid's case (as I wrote) it was eight months later, after seeing her play--and after she got offers from two rival programs. The reason I brought it up was to respond to someone else's impression that camps are useless unless a kid has been specifically invited to attend. In my experience, I don't necessarily agree and wanted to share that, because this thread is called "Recruiting Tips for Parents Just Starting the Process."
> 
> Feel free to start another thread called, "I Don't Believe What People Say." But don't misrepresent me just because there's a narrative you want to cling to.
> 
> Best of luck with the rest of your youth soccer journey.


if your club isn't in ecnl or ga. your not good enough for college


----------



## Avanti

paytoplayisgood said:


> if your club isn't in ecnl or ga. your not good enough for college


That is debatable. What is not debatable is that, based on your writing skills, you are not good enough for college.


----------



## KJR

paytoplayisgood said:


> if your club isn't in ecnl or ga. your not good enough for college


This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen written here.

Almost all of our players have already received college offers, ranging from scholarships at top 20 programs to admissions support at DIII schools. I've been told we're an "outlier," and yes, what we're doing isn't easy to replicate, but the fundamentals are simple. Focus on development, not wins and losses for 9-year-olds; a great coach is more valuable than a big club name on the kit. And then parents, when you're starting the recruiting process, if you're realistic about your kid's level and make an effort to connect with colleges (playing in showcases, going to ID camps) there are a lot of opportunities to play college soccer.


----------



## dk_b

KJR said:


> This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen written here.
> 
> Almost all of our players have already received college offers, ranging from scholarships at top 20 programs to admissions support at DIII schools. I've been told we're an "outlier," and yes, what we're doing isn't easy to replicate, but the fundamentals are simple. Focus on development, not wins and losses for 9-year-olds; a great coach is more valuable than a big club name on the kit. And then parents, when you're starting the recruiting process, if you're realistic about your kid's level and make an effort to connect with colleges (playing in showcases, going to ID camps) there are a lot of opportunities to play college soccer.


I read that comment as an obvious trolling effort to elicit reactions from parents who have had kids go through this (and have kids playing in college) are only keenly aware that there are different ways to be recruited and that no specific combination of alphabet soup guarantees that your kid WILL find a college or that your kid will NEVER find a college. I have an ECNL alumna daughter playing in college and non-ECNL daughters who wish to play in college. They know that their path will be different than that of their older sister but they know of and personally know enough non-ECNL players playing at the next level to embrace the reality of what is possible.


----------



## KJR

dk_b said:


> I read that comment as an obvious trolling effort to elicit reactions from parents who have had kids go through this (and have kids playing in college) are only keenly aware that there are different ways to be recruited and that no specific combination of alphabet soup guarantees that your kid WILL find a college or that your kid will NEVER find a college. I have an ECNL alumna daughter playing in college and non-ECNL daughters who wish to play in college. They know that their path will be different than that of their older sister but they know of and personally know enough non-ECNL players playing at the next level to embrace the reality of what is possible.


I absolutely fed the troll! But the statement contained everything that is wrong with US youth soccer. Expensive, closed "elite" leagues aren't the only pathway to playing in college. And playing in college shouldn't be the goal of playing youth soccer. But that's like shouting at the ocean around here.


----------



## Kicker 2.0

paytoplayisgood said:


> if your club isn't in ecnl or ga. your not good enough for college


Assuming your just a troll…..rather just going to dismiss you as one.   You make a comment like this then in another thread list SDSC and Liverpool as your top girls clubs for D1 recruiting……


----------



## crush

dk_b said:


> I read that comment as an obvious trolling effort to elicit reactions from parents who have had kids go through this (and have kids playing in college) are only keenly aware that there are different ways to be recruited and that no specific combination of alphabet soup guarantees that your kid WILL find a college or that your kid will NEVER find a college. I have an ECNL alumna daughter playing in college and non-ECNL daughters who wish to play in college. They know that their path will be different than that of their older sister but they know of and personally know enough non-ECNL players playing at the next level to embrace the reality of what is possible.


Troll and to think someone on here actually said they believe it's me playing paytoplayisgood is insane. Here is my college tip based on what friends are telling me about this year in college soccer as freshman at P5s. Don't show up out of shape.  Running and more running is the name of the game in the summer. I get it because college soccer plays all their games in 10 weeks. Most ECNL clubs do not run the players hard and now it's showing. Coach has 35+ players to run to see who is ready to play first game in early August.


----------



## crush

KJR said:


> I absolutely fed the troll! But the statement contained everything that is wrong with US youth soccer. Expensive, closed "elite" leagues aren't the only pathway to playing in college. And playing in college shouldn't be the goal of playing youth soccer. But that's like shouting at the ocean around here.


100% bro. This all smacked me in the face 4 years ago. I was in denial and actually tested it out. After 7th grade, it's all about *Elite* Clubs and their Elite Docs finding "*a place for daughter"* for four years. No coach will talk to your kid seriously without recommendations from the club and the Doc. It is what it is and at this time, it ain;t changing. If your dd is in VA and plays for a big club, this year's total cost to pay to play in the elite soccer league is very expensive and only a "few" can afford this now without any debt or pain that comes with getting into debt for club soccer.  Also, my buddies dd is still playing D1 and never played club.


----------



## Larzby

KJR said:


> This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen written here.
> 
> Almost all of our players have already received college offers, ranging from scholarships at top 20 programs to admissions support at DIII schools. I've been told we're an "outlier," and yes, what we're doing isn't easy to replicate, but the fundamentals are simple. Focus on development, not wins and losses for 9-year-olds; a great coach is more valuable than a big club name on the kit. And then parents, when you're starting the recruiting process, if you're realistic about your kid's level and make an effort to connect with colleges (playing in showcases, going to ID camps) there are a lot of opportunities to play college soccer.


Just click on his name and then click "ignore".  Believe me, it will be 5 seconds of time that will be well spent.


----------



## paytoplayisgood

Avanti said:


> That is debatable. What is not debatable is that, based on your writing skills, you are not good enough for college.


Who cares about grammar in a forum. Only nerds.


----------



## Dubs

Simisoccerfan said:


> The athletic scholarship side is a black hole.  Teammates don't discuss it with each other nor do most parents.  Impossible to find published data too.   The only thing you can trust is the deal presented to your kid.  It is also not the norm for scholarships to be guaranteed for 4 years.   I believe only the Power 5 and Notre Dame guarantee scholarships.   At most colleges it is renewed annually and can change.   Even in the Power 5 schools coaches can pressure players to transfer.  Also don't believe parents that say their kid got a full athletic scholarship for soccer.   That is exceedingly rare.


100% agree with this as well + it really isn't anybody's business but the player, player's family and coach.  I would hope folks have the sense to not ask either.


----------



## crush

Dubs said:


> 100% agree with this as well + *it really isn't anybody's business but the player, player's family and coach*.  I would hope folks have the sense to not ask either.


Some parents brag about this and that and how amazing it is that their dd is going to big time P5. I asked my good and honest pal about his dd deal. He was happy to tell me and was no hush hush at all. His dd was 4.6, 1400+ SAT and a good soccer player and a fabulous person and got the 50/50 deal. A rich dad I used to know saw me in the parking lot and wanted brag and egg me on and he started with his blow hard pride and how is dd got a ride to this amazing P5 school and my dd should have got one too but I blew it for her for coming on here and taking on a few cheaters and a couple Docs. I asked him for a breakdown and he told me it was rude to ask and non of my business. I won;t ask anymore and I see it's between the Doc and the family and no one else.


----------



## Dubs

crush said:


> Some parents brag about this and that and how amazing it is that their dd is going to big time P5. I asked my good and honest pal about his dd deal. He was happy to tell me and was no hush hush at all. His dd was 4.6, 1400+ SAT and a good soccer player and a fabulous person and got the 50/50 deal. A rich dad I used to know saw me in the parking lot and wanted brag and egg me on and he started with his blow hard pride and how is dd got a ride to this amazing P5 school and my dd should have got one too but I blew it for her for coming on here and taking on a few cheaters and a couple Docs. I asked him for a breakdown and he told me it was rude to ask and non of my business. I won;t ask anymore and I see it's between the Doc and the family and no one else.


It's actually not the DOCs, nor the club coaches business either.  Once that negotiation has begun it's nobody's business but DD, family and college coach.  If someone is willing to tell you that's fine, but best to steer clear of those discussions.  As has been said...it's impossible to know for sure exactly what any one recruit is getting.


----------



## crush

Dubs said:


> It's actually not the DOCs, nor the club coaches business either.  Once that negotiation has begun it's nobody's business but DD, family and college coach.  If someone is willing to tell you that's fine, but best to steer clear of those discussions.  As has been said...it's impossible to know for sure exactly what any one recruit is getting.


True and I just like to ask questions because i was pitched full rides in 8th grade but after more digging, it would only be for a place in North Dakoda. I see your point and I will use more discretion next time.


----------



## paytoplayisgood

Dubs said:


> 100% agree with this as well + it really isn't anybody's business but the player, player's family and coach.  I would hope folks have the sense to not ask either.


Being on a GA team or ECNL will help


----------



## socalkdg

Dubs said:


> It's actually not the DOCs, nor the club coaches business either.  Once that negotiation has begun it's nobody's business but DD, family and college coach.  If someone is willing to tell you that's fine, but best to steer clear of those discussions.  As has been said...it's impossible to know for sure exactly what any one recruit is getting.


Don't tell your 81 year old father in-law.   I'm pretty sure he is going to say something to somebody he shouldn't.      I'm surprised how many people ask how much?  For my daughter the amount offered gives her a feeling of how much they really like her, as well as chances to play Freshman year.  Kind of like a way they are backing up their words on playing time.

I do understand the pride we parents feel towards our kid and why some want to talk about it.   The thing is the outcomes of you saying something results in the other person thinking 1 - I'm not telling the truth.   2 - My daughter isn't good enough to get that offer, the school made a mistake.  3 - I think I'm getting 50%, 75%, 100% but I'm forgetting about room and board.  4 - Congrats.   She is a great player and deserves it. 

I'm happy for all parents and their kids that get any amount and a chance to continue playing.


----------



## crush

socalkdg said:


> I'm happy for all parents and their kids that get any amount and a chance to continue playing.


I'm so happy for all you whose dd get's a chance of continuing the soccer journey in the great USA. Go Team


----------



## Dubs

socalkdg said:


> Don't tell your 81 year old father in-law.   I'm pretty sure he is going to say something to somebody he shouldn't.      I'm surprised how many people ask how much?  For my daughter the amount offered gives her a feeling of how much they really like her, as well as chances to play Freshman year.  Kind of like a way they are backing up their words on playing time.
> 
> I do understand the pride we parents feel towards our kid and why some want to talk about it.   The thing is the outcomes of you saying something results in the other person thinking 1 - I'm not telling the truth.   2 - My daughter isn't good enough to get that offer, the school made a mistake.  3 - I think I'm getting 50%, 75%, 100% but I'm forgetting about room and board.  4 - Congrats.   She is a great player and deserves it.
> 
> I'm happy for all parents and their kids that get any amount and a chance to continue playing.


Well... can't stop grandpa and grandma no matter how many times we tell them to keep their mouth shut .  Grandparents notwithstanding, I don't think it's appropriate to say anything.  I am also surprised how many people do ask.  It's like asking.. "how much do you make?"  Your last statement is what is appropriate.  She's a great player and deserves it.  That is the most appropriate thing for anyone to say and then carry on.


----------



## dad4

Dubs said:


> Well... can't stop grandpa and grandma no matter how many times we tell them to keep their mouth shut .  Grandparents notwithstanding, I don't think it's appropriate to say anything.  I am also surprised how many people do ask.  It's like asking.. "how much do you make?"  Your last statement is what is appropriate.  She's a great player and deserves it.  That is the most appropriate thing for anyone to say and then carry on.


People don’t want to know “how much did Sally get?”.  They want to know “what kind of money is out there and does my kid qualify?”.


----------



## crush

Dubs said:


> Well... can't stop grandpa and grandma no matter how many times we tell them to keep their mouth shut .  Grandparents notwithstanding, I don't think it's appropriate to say anything.  I am also surprised how many people do ask.  It's like asking.. "how much do you make?"  Your last statement is what is appropriate.  She's a great player and deserves it.  That is the most appropriate thing for anyone to say and then carry on.


No wonder some of my more well do pals gave me that look.  Listen, I never asked, "how much you make bro after taxes." Just looking for Athletic breakdown vs Academic. One pal dd got 10% soccer offer to UCLA and no academic. She said no. Instead, she took a 90% soccer deal outside of California. Pops pays 10% out of state.  You call this inappropriate Q?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I wish the NCAA published more data.  Things like for each school what percent of incoming Freshmen last 4 years?  What percent transfer?  What percent of Freshmen that don't see minutes their 1st year last 4 years?  I am sure there are many more questions.  Like how many college players get injured?  How many games do they miss?  How many tear their ACL?   There is a whole world of data missing that could help players and parents make informed decisions.  Instead I am sure every single player is sold on being an impact player.


----------



## crush

Simisoccerfan said:


> I wish the NCAA published more data.  Things like for each school what percent of incoming Freshmen last 4 years?  What percent transfer?  What percent of Freshmen that don't see minutes their 1st year last 4 years?  I am sure there are many more questions.  Like how many college players get injured?  How many games do they miss?  How many tear their ACL?   There is a whole world of data missing that could help players and parents make informed decisions.  Instead I am sure every single player is sold on being an impact player.


I did all that already the last four years.  This year, I will be looking at the 2022s, my dd class. It's shocking and scary. Depression is #1 health issue. Verbal abuse and threats of this and that is also high on the list. Once I go through this year's class, I might share it PM with those who would like to know the truth because no one shares about this.


----------



## dad4

crush said:


> No wonder some of my more well do pals gave me that look.  Listen, I never asked, "how much you make bro after taxes." Just looking for Athletic breakdown vs Academic. One pal dd got 10% soccer offer to UCLA and no academic. She said no. Instead, she took a 90% soccer deal outside of California. Pops pays 10% out of state.  You call this inappropriate Q?


Reasonable, especially since no name is attached..  

Mind if I ask what level player?  I'm guessing a consistent starter on a top 20 ECNL team, but I really have no idea.


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> Reasonable, especially since no name is attached..
> 
> Mind if I ask what level player?  I'm guessing a consistent starter on a top 20 ECNL team, but I really have no idea.


Top player, great kid and YNT list member for one year early on. All members on the list get invited to UCLA camp.


----------



## Larzby

dad4 said:


> People don’t want to know “how much did Sally get?”.  They want to know “what kind of money is out there and does my kid qualify?”.


Correct. Secrecy helps the institutions. Transparency helps the families & students. It shouldn't be taboo to ask. But also, be aware parents tend to exaggerate.


----------



## dk_b

Larzby said:


> Correct. Secrecy helps the institutions. Transparency helps the families & students. It shouldn't be taboo to ask. But also, be aware parents tend to exaggerate.


I think the schools should be able to show the data w/o identifying players - X number of players at 100%, Y at 50%, Z at 10%, etc. But it creates an uncomfortable dynamic, and does not really help team cohesion, for players/parents to be asking "how much are you getting?" Unlike in the workplace, there is no collective benefit to knowing that that kid is on a full ride while that kid is getting 20% and the full ride kid can't compete while the 20% kid is carrying the team, especially given that most award decisions are made before players step foot on campus (and, at least in the P5, they can't reduce the award if a player isn't cutting it).


----------



## crush

dk_b said:


> I think the schools should be able to show the data w/o identifying players - X number of players at 100%, Y at 50%, Z at 10%, etc. But it creates an uncomfortable dynamic, and does not really help team cohesion, for players/parents to be asking "how much are you getting?" Unlike in the workplace, there is no collective benefit to knowing that that kid is on a full ride while that kid is getting 20% and the full ride kid can't compete while the 20% kid is carrying the team, especially given that most award decisions are made before players step foot on campus (and, at least in the P5, they can't reduce the award if a player isn't cutting it).


Great stuff bro. I remember when I got recruited to leave the Yellow Pages for a big Dot.com start up in 1999. Regional VP heard I was a damn good door knocker and he took me out for Steaks, lobsters and drinks. He offered a very nice deal and I took it. I had some pals making bank and I wanted some too.  YP didn;t appreciate me at the time. Big bonus up front and a one year guarantee for x amount.  He did make me sign a NDA and to never share my deal with others in his office because.  We drank some more and then he invites me to Fritzes in Anaheim for some more benefits of coming over.  I declined the lap dance but I did go home wondering what I was getting into, but the money was too good to pass up, I won't lie   I found out after 30 days I made a huge mistake and I got on my knees and begged God to help me get out of hell. The next day I got a call from my old boss begging me to come back. He took me to a very nice place for more Steaks ((great guy and no invite for lap dance)) and made me an offer I couldn't refuse and I went back to the Yellow Pages until Google came and tricked our Execs to hand over our customer data base. That decision alone caused the YP to go OB!


----------



## Mystery Train

Simisoccerfan said:


> I wish the NCAA published more data.  Things like for each school what percent of incoming Freshmen last 4 years?  What percent transfer?  What percent of Freshmen that don't see minutes their 1st year last 4 years?  I am sure there are many more questions.  Like how many college players get injured?  How many games do they miss?  How many tear their ACL?   There is a whole world of data missing that could help players and parents make informed decisions.  Instead I am sure every single player is sold on being an impact player.


I'm sure even if the NCAA has the resources to do the data mining and publishing they would have ZERO interest in sharing it to the public as it would be a very bad look.  From purely anecdotal data collected from the small network of club/college soccer connections my DD and I have, for every 1 example of a kid who played decent minutes in their first two years, there are a more than a dozen that played 0, transferred, got injured/ACL, or quit soccer altogether.  What's wild too, is that within that band of kids we know who went on to college soccer, how each of them did relative to each other in their youth soccer careers didn't translate to college in the least.  The biggest stud on her team who got the most impressive scholarship/school situation played sparingly as a freshman, scored one goal, and quit.  One of the kids who only played 50% of the time in club really blossomed and ended up starting for their team deep into the D1 playoffs because the player ahead of her on the depth chart got injured.  Half of the kids we know that were signed to play soccer in college never saw the field and either quit or transferred.  And I think the story of the recent college athlete suicides proves that getting scholarships, playing time, winning championships, and getting accolades doesn't make it all worth it.  College sports and soccer in particular is brutal, unpredictable, and much less glorious than any of the parents I know imagined when they embarked on the recruitment process, myself included.  Many of the seniors on her college team, even the ones who started and play huge minutes end up leaving before eligibility is up just because it's such a grind and they want to enjoy life for a bit before going out into the world.  I never understood that logic until watching it all up close.  My DD's situation is fortunate by comparison to most of her former teammates, but we understand fully how brief and fleeting all of it is, and most importantly, how "out of our hands" so much of this experience can be.  My advice to parents starting the process has changed over the years and now I tell parents of young kids "I don't recommend pursuing college soccer, but if your kid won't take no for an answer, you have to get your kid to *not* focus on the scholarship, the accolades, the playing time, the results, or even the personal goals:  focusing only on self-improvement and learning from whatever happens.  It is the only way to survive it with some sense of success.


----------



## socalkdg

dk_b said:


> I think the schools should be able to show the data w/o identifying players - X number of players at 100%, Y at 50%, Z at 10%, etc. But it creates an uncomfortable dynamic, and does not really help team cohesion, for players/parents to be asking "how much are you getting?" Unlike in the workplace, there is no collective benefit to knowing that that kid is on a full ride while that kid is getting 20% and the full ride kid can't compete while the 20% kid is carrying the team, especially given that most award decisions are made before players step foot on campus (and, at least in the P5, they can't reduce the award if a player isn't cutting it).


Anyone here with a kid that finished college find out during their time at college what some players were getting and their their reaction.   

So I imagine each school does it differently.  If a team has 28 players with 14 scholarships (worse for the men at 10 scholarships) one might see 4 have 0%,  8 have 25%,   10 have 50%,  4 have 75% and 4 have 100%(check my math).    Another college may play things different.   Also some colleges don't use all 14.   During recruiting we found out some schools started every player at 25-33%.   Then additional money given.   

What positions do you think get the most money?


----------



## socalkdg

Mystery Train said:


> I'm sure even if the NCAA has the resources to do the data mining and publishing they would have ZERO interest in sharing it to the public as it would be a very bad look.  From purely anecdotal data collected from the small network of club/college soccer connections my DD and I have, for every 1 example of a kid who played decent minutes in their first two years, there are a more than a dozen that played 0, transferred, got injured/ACL, or quit soccer altogether.  What's wild too, is that within that band of kids we know who went on to college soccer, how each of them did relative to each other in their youth soccer careers didn't translate to college in the least.  The biggest stud on her team who got the most impressive scholarship/school situation played sparingly as a freshman, scored one goal, and quit.  One of the kids who only played 50% of the time in club really blossomed and ended up starting for their team deep into the D1 playoffs because the player ahead of her on the depth chart got injured.  Half of the kids we know that were signed to play soccer in college never saw the field and either quit or transferred.  And I think the story of the recent college athlete suicides proves that getting scholarships, playing time, winning championships, and getting accolades doesn't make it all worth it.  College sports and soccer in particular is brutal, unpredictable, and much less glorious than any of the parents I know imagined when they embarked on the recruitment process, myself included.  Many of the seniors on her college team, even the ones who started and play huge minutes end up leaving before eligibility is up just because it's such a grind and they want to enjoy life for a bit before going out into the world.  I never understood that logic until watching it all up close.  My DD's situation is fortunate by comparison to most of her former teammates, but we understand fully how brief and fleeting all of it is, and most importantly, how "out of our hands" so much of this experience can be.  My advice to parents starting the process has changed over the years and now I tell parents of young kids "I don't recommend pursuing college soccer, but if your kid won't take no for an answer, you have to get your kid to *not* focus on the scholarship, the accolades, the playing time, the results, or even the personal goals:  focusing only on self-improvement and learning from whatever happens.  It is the only way to survive it with some sense of success.


I'm replying because everything you said is so important people should read it twice.   I tried to gently force my kid into ECNL.   Then to an out of state school that was giving good money.   She wouldn't have any of it, and my pushing made her hesitate a bit about soccer.  Thankfully I stopped all that and helped her work hard towards the schools she was really interested in and thankfully everything worked out.

Make sure they choose a school they really like because as mentioned, there is a chance they don't make it 4 years playing soccer.   Remember that most of our kids have started and played full games their whole lives.  Don't put them into a situation where they may see bench for two years and then play sparingly.


----------



## dk_b

socalkdg said:


> Anyone here with a kid that finished college find out during their time at college what some players were getting and their their reaction.
> 
> So I imagine each school does it differently.  If a team has 28 players with 14 scholarships (worse for the men at 10 scholarships) one might see 4 have 0%,  8 have 25%,   10 have 50%,  4 have 75% and 4 have 100%(check my math).    Another college may play things different.   Also some colleges don't use all 14.   During recruiting we found out some schools started every player at 25-33%.   Then additional money given.
> 
> What positions do you think get the most money?


"some players" - I don't disagree. That information will be exchanged among the players and they are adults but you can see it impact the dynamic. Among the parents, yes some are very curious and almost competitive about it. It's like them sharing SAT scores or GPAs. I don't engage with that b/c I don't think anything good can come of it. If my two younger kids play college soccer, their award(s) will be different than their older sister's and maybe even different from one another but that would be the universe of knowledge that I care about.


----------



## crush

Mystery Train said:


> I'm sure even if the NCAA has the resources to do the data mining and publishing they would have ZERO interest in sharing it to the public as it would be a very bad look.  From purely anecdotal data collected from the small network of club/college soccer connections my DD and I have, for every 1 example of a kid who played decent minutes in their first two years, there are a more than a dozen that played 0, transferred, got injured/ACL, or quit soccer altogether.  What's wild too, is that within that band of kids we know who went on to college soccer, how each of them did relative to each other in their youth soccer careers didn't translate to college in the least.  The biggest stud on her team who got the most impressive scholarship/school situation played sparingly as a freshman, scored one goal, and quit.  One of the kids who only played 50% of the time in club really blossomed and ended up starting for their team deep into the D1 playoffs because the player ahead of her on the depth chart got injured.  Half of the kids we know that were signed to play soccer in college never saw the field and either quit or transferred.  And I think the story of the recent college athlete suicides proves that getting scholarships, playing time, winning championships, and getting accolades doesn't make it all worth it.  College sports and soccer in particular is brutal, unpredictable, and much less glorious than any of the parents I know imagined when they embarked on the recruitment process, myself included.  Many of the seniors on her college team, even the ones who started and play huge minutes end up leaving before eligibility is up just because it's such a grind and they want to enjoy life for a bit before going out into the world.  I never understood that logic until watching it all up close.  My DD's situation is fortunate by comparison to most of her former teammates, but we understand fully how brief and fleeting all of it is, and most importantly, how "out of our hands" so much of this experience can be.  My advice to parents starting the process has changed over the years and now I tell parents of young kids "I don't recommend pursuing college soccer, but if your kid won't take no for an answer, you have to get your kid to *not* focus on the scholarship, the accolades, the playing time, the results, or even the personal goals:  focusing only on self-improvement and learning from whatever happens.  It is the only way to survive it with some sense of success.


I sent this to a dear friend of mine who is depressed because his dd came back before she even started. This 100% helped him. His dd is super happy but he's not because he invested thousands of dollars and thousands of hours driving his dd all over playing youth soccer so he can see her play in college.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Mystery Train said:


> I'm sure even if the NCAA has the resources to do the data mining and publishing they would have ZERO interest in sharing it to the public as it would be a very bad look.  From purely anecdotal data collected from the small network of club/college soccer connections my DD and I have, for every 1 example of a kid who played decent minutes in their first two years, there are a more than a dozen that played 0, transferred, got injured/ACL, or quit soccer altogether.  What's wild too, is that within that band of kids we know who went on to college soccer, how each of them did relative to each other in their youth soccer careers didn't translate to college in the least.  The biggest stud on her team who got the most impressive scholarship/school situation played sparingly as a freshman, scored one goal, and quit.  One of the kids who only played 50% of the time in club really blossomed and ended up starting for their team deep into the D1 playoffs because the player ahead of her on the depth chart got injured.  Half of the kids we know that were signed to play soccer in college never saw the field and either quit or transferred.  And I think the story of the recent college athlete suicides proves that getting scholarships, playing time, winning championships, and getting accolades doesn't make it all worth it.  College sports and soccer in particular is brutal, unpredictable, and much less glorious than any of the parents I know imagined when they embarked on the recruitment process, myself included.  Many of the seniors on her college team, even the ones who started and play huge minutes end up leaving before eligibility is up just because it's such a grind and they want to enjoy life for a bit before going out into the world.  I never understood that logic until watching it all up close.  My DD's situation is fortunate by comparison to most of her former teammates, but we understand fully how brief and fleeting all of it is, and most importantly, how "out of our hands" so much of this experience can be.  My advice to parents starting the process has changed over the years and now I tell parents of young kids "I don't recommend pursuing college soccer, but if your kid won't take no for an answer, you have to get your kid to *not* focus on the scholarship, the accolades, the playing time, the results, or even the personal goals:  focusing only on self-improvement and learning from whatever happens.  It is the only way to survive it with some sense of success.


Your post should be pinned to the start of this thread and any new member opening it should be forced to memorize it.  Parents come here chasing the college scholarship (like I did) and have no clue of what they are getting their kid into.


----------



## espola

The coach and his recruiting assistant certainly know ow, the AD knows and several members of his staff may have access to the info, the college leadership should know if they are meeting the requirements of maintaining effective control of the program, and the NCAA must have received reports that indicate how many are on scholarship and how much in order to determine if the school is in compliance with NCAA regulations.  It wouldn't surprise me to know that competing coaches have a pretty good idea what the scholarship picture is from what their recruits have told them, if not just shared on a friendly basis or obtained over the transom.

The people that it is most important to keep the information from are the parents, both of prospective recruits and current players.


----------



## Mystery Train

crush said:


> I sent this to a dear friend of mine who is depressed because his dd came back before she even started. This 100% helped him. His dd is super happy but he's not because he invested thousands of dollars and thousands of hours driving his dd all over playing youth soccer so he can see her play in college.


I'm glad if I could help any parent navigating this weird space we're in.  I can understand how he would feel.  Plenty of the friends I made on the sidelines felt the same way when their kids left the game before reaching whatever ideal they had as college players.  But the key in your post is "His dd is supper happy."  That's it.  Full stop.  If his dd is super happy now, then maybe all that money wasn't completely wasted.  Maybe it was just another opportunity for her to figure herself out.  And bless her for doing it!  I sure hope he wouldn't trade a happy daughter full of life for a mentally wrecked kid with a nice stat sheet.


----------



## Messi>CR7

Mystery Train said:


> I'm sure even if the NCAA has the resources to do the data mining and publishing they would have ZERO interest in sharing it to the public as it would be a very bad look.  From purely anecdotal data collected from the small network of club/college soccer connections my DD and I have, for every 1 example of a kid who played decent minutes in their first two years, there are a more than a dozen that played 0, transferred, got injured/ACL, or quit soccer altogether.  What's wild too, is that within that band of kids we know who went on to college soccer, how each of them did relative to each other in their youth soccer careers didn't translate to college in the least.  The biggest stud on her team who got the most impressive scholarship/school situation played sparingly as a freshman, scored one goal, and quit.  One of the kids who only played 50% of the time in club really blossomed and ended up starting for their team deep into the D1 playoffs because the player ahead of her on the depth chart got injured.  Half of the kids we know that were signed to play soccer in college never saw the field and either quit or transferred.  And I think the story of the recent college athlete suicides proves that getting scholarships, playing time, winning championships, and getting accolades doesn't make it all worth it.  College sports and soccer in particular is brutal, unpredictable, and much less glorious than any of the parents I know imagined when they embarked on the recruitment process, myself included.  Many of the seniors on her college team, even the ones who started and play huge minutes end up leaving before eligibility is up just because it's such a grind and they want to enjoy life for a bit before going out into the world.  I never understood that logic until watching it all up close.  My DD's situation is fortunate by comparison to most of her former teammates, but we understand fully how brief and fleeting all of it is, and most importantly, how "out of our hands" so much of this experience can be.  My advice to parents starting the process has changed over the years and now I tell parents of young kids "I don't recommend pursuing college soccer, but if your kid won't take no for an answer, you have to get your kid to *not* focus on the scholarship, the accolades, the playing time, the results, or even the personal goals:  focusing only on self-improvement and learning from whatever happens.  It is the only way to survive it with some sense of success.


You should post more often.


----------



## Mystery Train

Simisoccerfan said:


> Your post should be pinned to the start of this thread and any new member opening it should be forced to memorize it.  Parents come here chasing the college scholarship (like I did) and have no clue of what they are getting their kid into.


I know the grind you and your DD have had to go through and that experience, even when it eventually works out to playing time in college, is just something parents new to the process (like we once were) have no reality on.


----------



## ToonArmy

Well I'm new to it as my 05 DD just committed this summer and I'll definitely remeber your guys advice as I did for years on this thread and thank you everyone for the advice and for answering questions I had


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Sitting drinking some wine, just had a great sushi dinner with the family. Daughter flies out for the last time tomorrow morning to start her senior season.  She very well could be starting this final season like she did in the Spring or riding the pine behind some new Freshmen.  On this past Father’s Day I got to drive her to one last game since she was playing in the WPSL.  The end is near and it makes me a bit sad.


----------



## socalkdg

ToonArmy said:


> Well I'm new to it as my 05 DD just committed this summer and I'll definitely remeber your guys advice as I did for years on this thread and thank you everyone for the advice and for answering questions I had


Congrats.  Is she staying in So Cal?   What position does she play.   Chance our daughter will play vs each other.


----------



## Dubs

dad4 said:


> People don’t want to know “how much did Sally get?”.  They want to know “what kind of money is out there and does my kid qualify?”.


I never said people don't want to know.  I just said it's none of their business and inappropriate to ask.


----------



## crush

Dubs said:


> I never said people don't want to know.  I just said it's none of their business and inappropriate to ask.


And I disagree. It's all good Dubs, I get you man and I will never ask you. I got PMs from a few cool dads that gave me the low down on the deals out there. I 100% know how this all goes down. Have a gr8t Friday and I mean that.


----------



## Dubs

Mystery Train said:


> I know the grind you and your DD have had to go through and that experience, even when it eventually works out to playing time in college, is just something parents new to the process (like we once were) have no reality on.


You're spot on.  Your original post should be the mantra.


----------



## ToonArmy

socalkdg said:


> Congrats.  Is she staying in So Cal?   What position does she play.   Chance our daughter will play vs each other.


Thanks! She's headed out of state


----------



## dk_b

Mystery Train said:


> I know the grind you and your DD have had to go through and that experience, even when it eventually works out to playing time in college, is just something parents new to the process (like we once were) have no reality on.


This and @Simisoccerfan's post to which you are responding are incredibly important to parents experiencing this journey with their kids. If kids are being recruited, they are excellent players and may even be among the best on a very good, even elite, team. But the grind of college athletics is something that hits like a ton of bricks and the reality of playing time is like a trough of ice water following those bricks. If you go back through those elite teams from GDA or ECNL and look at those players now as college juniors and seniors and what you are going to see is that while some noteworthy ones have played from the first minute, others have not. Talk to them about playing in youth final fours and being early commits (those were the days of unofficials at any age and middle school or HS frosh players with verbals) and look at how many have played a meaningful number of minutes through their soph or junior years and how many have great relationships with their college coaches.

My daughter's team played solid games against some of those elite SoCal teams (never losing to Surf from the first U12 EGSL event she played in against them (down in San Juan Capistrano - I'm guessing some of the other old timers may have been there), battling against Blues (a noteworthy blow out loss but some really good games as well)) and were recognized by other teams and scouts for the soccer they played. They had a lot of D1 commits (11 or 12, I think, and a couple D2 and D3) but, as they enter their junior years, it's a small handful who have played a lot of minutes. Some aren't playing, several have transferred from their first schools. Hey, it's not uncommon to not play a lot as frosh and sophs (maybe even the norm) but going from a 90 minute player on an elite team to a handful of mins, the occasional start, some games w/o leaving the bench . . . that can be really hard. Especially when you are dealing with school, demanding coaches ("yeah, yeah. Coaches are demanding. Do you really think our kids don't know that?" Yes. I really think they don't have a full grasp of what that means at the college level unless they have a sibling or very, very, close friend who can be fully honest about it), some profs who are understanding and some who couldn't give a single sh*t thinking about your kid's travel commitments, lack of time for studying or just pure exhaustion. Mix in, for these young women and men, covid and injury and a wave of tragedies (not sure if any more but we certainly hear about them a lot more) . . . 

I am not one to say, "Make sure they love the school first because the sport may disappear" because I'm of the belief that, for many, a huge part of this big time decision is made because of the sport, the team, the athletic department - that is the group you will be spending most of your time around (their teammates but also other athletes) as they integrate into the campus and they may have made a totally different decision but for the sport. The player should consider whether she or he will be happy as a student but if it weren't for soccer, maybe a totally different campus would make more sense. I want the kids to talk to athletes at the school but, during recruiting, it is really tough to get honest answers (part of human nature) so the discussion, in a sense, needs to be even broader than the specific school. It is to talk with and listen to - REALLY listen to - college soccer players about how hard it can be. Maybe the HS recruit does not want to hear it - I get that - or can't really put herself or himself in that other person's shoes - I get that, too. But when you think of the "grind" that @Mystery Train mentions, even if your kid can't identify until experiencing it, all of you as parents should listen carefully and be ready. Because whether your kid steps on the pitch and plays full 90s or does not see the field for meaningful minutes in important games, the grind is real. The pieces you pick up are certain to be there. Your pride and excitement can get in the way of what your kid is going through (I'm 100% guilty of that). Talk to some of the old timers for candid takes on what their amazing children have gone through. I'd predict that, on balance, the take away is positive but I'd suspect it is non-linear, full of highs and lows, and they are both sad when it ends but also grateful their kids have come through it OK.

Stepping off the soap box and putting it away.


----------



## outside!

Simisoccerfan said:


> I wish the NCAA published more data.  Things like for each school what percent of incoming Freshmen last 4 years?  What percent transfer?  What percent of Freshmen that don't see minutes their 1st year last 4 years?  I am sure there are many more questions.  Like how many college players get injured?  How many games do they miss?  How many tear their ACL?   There is a whole world of data missing that could help players and parents make informed decisions.  Instead I am sure every single player is sold on being an impact player.


That would require the NCAA to actually care about the student athletes.


----------



## Mystery Train

dk_b said:


> This and @Simisoccerfan's post to which you are responding are incredibly important to parents experiencing this journey with their kids. If kids are being recruited, they are excellent players and may even be among the best on a very good, even elite, team. But the grind of college athletics is something that hits like a ton of bricks and the reality of playing time is like a trough of ice water following those bricks. If you go back through those elite teams from GDA or ECNL and look at those players now as college juniors and seniors and what you are going to see is that while some noteworthy ones have played from the first minute, others have not. Talk to them about playing in youth final fours and being early commits (those were the days of unofficials at any age and middle school or HS frosh players with verbals) and look at how many have played a meaningful number of minutes through their soph or junior years and how many have great relationships with their college coaches.
> 
> My daughter's team played solid games against some of those elite SoCal teams (never losing to Surf from the first U12 EGSL event she played in against them (down in San Juan Capistrano - I'm guessing some of the other old timers may have been there), battling against Blues (a noteworthy blow out loss but some really good games as well)) and were recognized by other teams and scouts for the soccer they played. They had a lot of D1 commits (11 or 12, I think, and a couple D2 and D3) but, as they enter their junior years, it's a small handful who have played a lot of minutes. Some aren't playing, several have transferred from their first schools. Hey, it's not uncommon to not play a lot as frosh and sophs (maybe even the norm) but going from a 90 minute player on an elite team to a handful of mins, the occasional start, some games w/o leaving the bench . . . that can be really hard. Especially when you are dealing with school, demanding coaches ("yeah, yeah. Coaches are demanding. Do you really think our kids don't know that?" Yes. I really think they don't have a full grasp of what that means at the college level unless they have a sibling or very, very, close friend who can be fully honest about it), some profs who are understanding and some who couldn't give a single sh*t thinking about your kid's travel commitments, lack of time for studying or just pure exhaustion. Mix in, for these young women and men, covid and injury and a wave of tragedies (not sure if any more but we certainly hear about them a lot more) . . .
> 
> I am not one to say, "Make sure they love the school first because the sport may disappear" because I'm of the belief that, for many, a huge part of this big time decision is made because of the sport, the team, the athletic department - that is the group you will be spending most of your time around (their teammates but also other athletes) as they integrate into the campus and they may have made a totally different decision but for the sport. The player should consider whether she or he will be happy as a student but if it weren't for soccer, maybe a totally different campus would make more sense. I want the kids to talk to athletes at the school but, during recruiting, it is really tough to get honest answers (part of human nature) so the discussion, in a sense, needs to be even broader than the specific school. It is to talk with and listen to - REALLY listen to - college soccer players about how hard it can be. Maybe the HS recruit does not want to hear it - I get that - or can't really put herself or himself in that other person's shoes - I get that, too. But when you think of the "grind" that @Mystery Train mentions, even if your kid can't identify until experiencing it, all of you as parents should listen carefully and be ready. Because whether your kid steps on the pitch and plays full 90s or does not see the field for meaningful minutes in important games, the grind is real. The pieces you pick up are certain to be there. Your pride and excitement can get in the way of what your kid is going through (I'm 100% guilty of that). Talk to some of the old timers for candid takes on what their amazing children have gone through. I'd predict that, on balance, the take away is positive but I'd suspect it is non-linear, full of highs and lows, and they are both sad when it ends but also grateful their kids have come through it OK.
> 
> Stepping off the soap box and putting it away.


YES!  

I know exactly what you mean when you talk about the old teams and those elite players.  I've watched many of the same ones and followed what happened after college started.  

So true about evaluating the school and what a huge part of the the decision the sport/team/program culture is.  One thing I didn't understand is how little of the college life a player gets to experience outside their team.  I mean, they're still college students and yes, they will go to parties and events, etc. (NOT during season in her program) but it's almost always with teammates or sometimes other athletes from other sports.  In my kid's 2.5 years at school, I don't think she has a solid lasting friendship that she's made outside of soccer or one of the other sports.  And that's not because she's shy or stuck up or bent on only hanging with athletes.  It's because they all share the same reality and the same physical space for the vast majority of their waking day.  And the "NARP's" (Non-Athletic Regular People) as the players call them, often don't understand why she can't join in and do all the stuff they get to do, so it makes it VERY hard to fit into a social group outside of your team.  It can be done, but it takes extra effort on top of the exceptional effort they're already expending to be an athlete.  So just imagine how shitty your child's school experience would be if things on the team, between teammates, between coaches, between your roommates get tense! AND THEY 100% WILL GET TENSE, GUARANTEED.  It's impossible for it not to.  Mix in the probability that a kid is away from home for the first time and simultaneously doing the hardest physical work they've ever done in their life and honestly, it's no wonder so many leave the sport! 

As I'm typing this, I'm seriously wondering why anyone would choose this path to begin with if they knew what it was really like.  I'm trying to stop using the word "quit" when I talk about my DD's former club teammates or her current college teammates when they decide it's the end of soccer for themselves.  I've gained a lot of respect for many of the kids that ended up coming to that conclusion because I understand now that they were able to accurately predict what was in their best interests going forward and are benefitting greatly from that choice now.  That takes guts, too.  Especially when so many people around you (especially parents) have made this such a big deal for your whole life.  

Your closing quote puts it best: 
"I'd predict that, on balance, the take away is positive but I'd suspect it is non-linear, full of highs and lows, and they are both sad when it ends but also grateful their kids have come through it OK."


----------



## dk_b

Mystery Train said:


> So true about evaluating the school and what a huge part of the the decision the sport/team/program culture is.  One thing I didn't understand is how little of the college life a player gets to experience outside their team.  I mean, they're still college students and yes, they will go to parties and events, etc. (NOT during season in her program) but it's almost always with teammates or sometimes other athletes from other sports.  In my kid's 2.5 years at school, I don't think she has a solid lasting friendship that she's made outside of soccer or one of the other sports.  And that's not because she's shy or stuck up or bent on only hanging with athletes.  It's because they all share the same reality and the same physical space for the vast majority of their waking day.  And the "NARP's" (Non-Athletic Regular People) as the players call them, often don't understand why she can't join in and do all the stuff they get to do, so it makes it VERY hard to fit into a social group outside of your team.  It can be done, but it takes extra effort on top of the exceptional effort they're already expending to be an athlete.


What you describe is precisely why the concept of “make sure your kid will be happy at the school if soccer goes away” can be so imaginary - they can’t really assess that unless they do a very deep dive into the non-athletic culture of a particular school.  And how exactly does that happen?  And when?  And can they REALLY do it independent of imaging themselves as part of the athletic culture?

It’s also why those of us w/kids in HS class of ‘20 have watched our kids miss out on one of the quintessential college experiences in a way that they can never get back (and how just how impactful that loss is): living in the dorms as freshmen. That would have been the BEST chance for them to meet NARPs but b/c of covid, if they were able to live in the dorms, eating in the cafeteria/chilling in common areas/social events/even kicking back in each other’s dorm rooms were not possible to do. That cohort, more than any other, will have their non-sport college experience impacted more than any other (the year ahead of them got half a freshman year pre-covid; the year behind them had a covid impact but much less than the HS ‘20s). So their college world was reduced even more than under “normal” circumstances.

Worth noting is that while a part of this can be applicable to nearly any level of collegiate sports, there can be differences across programs and across levels - top tier programs v mid pack v lower tier, D1 v D2 v D3 v NAIA, etc. Finding the right fit for how your kid is wired - and wired as a 16- or 17-year old v projecting how your kid will be wired as a 19- or 22-year old - is a supreme challenge. And given that it is THEIR decision, not ours, makes that challenge an impossible one.  (I will say this about my kid (speaking for myself, not my wife, not my kid): she committed under the old rules and it was too early (she agrees) BUT I think the program/athletic department/academic environment made sense at the time and STILL make a lot of sense for her. If she were not playing soccer,  I could imagine her there. )


----------



## crush

Sage week!


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## Mystery Train

dk_b said:


> What you describe is precisely why the concept of “make sure your kid will be happy at the school if soccer goes away” can be so imaginary - they can’t really assess that unless they do a very deep dive into the non-athletic culture of a particular school.  And how exactly does that happen?  And when?  And can they REALLY do it independent of imaging themselves as part of the athletic culture?
> 
> It’s also why those of us w/kids in HS class of ‘20 have watched our kids miss out on one of the quintessential college experiences in a way that they can never get back (and how just how impactful that loss is): living in the dorms as freshmen. That would have been the BEST chance for them to meet NARPs but b/c of covid, if they were able to live in the dorms, eating in the cafeteria/chilling in common areas/social events/even kicking back in each other’s dorm rooms were not possible to do. That cohort, more than any other, will have their non-sport college experience impacted more than any other (the year ahead of them got half a freshman year pre-covid; the year behind them had a covid impact but much less than the HS ‘20s). So their college world was reduced even more than under “normal” circumstances.
> 
> Worth noting is that while a part of this can be applicable to nearly any level of collegiate sports, there can be differences across programs and across levels - top tier programs v mid pack v lower tier, D1 v D2 v D3 v NAIA, etc. Finding the right fit for how your kid is wired - and wired as a 16- or 17-year old v projecting how your kid will be wired as a 19- or 22-year old - is a supreme challenge. And given that it is THEIR decision, not ours, makes that challenge an impossible one.  (I will say this about my kid (speaking for myself, not my wife, not my kid): she committed under the old rules and it was too early (she agrees) BUT I think the program/athletic department/academic environment made sense at the time and STILL make a lot of sense for her. If she were not playing soccer,  I could imagine her there. )


100%!!!!!!!!!!


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## socalkdg

dk_b said:


> It’s also why those of us w/kids in HS class of ‘20 have watched our kids miss out on one of the quintessential college experiences in a way that they can never get back (and how just how impactful that loss is): living in the dorms as freshmen. That would have been the BEST chance for them to meet NARPs but b/c of covid, if they were able to live in the dorms, eating in the cafeteria/chilling in common areas/social events/even kicking back in each other’s dorm rooms were not possible to do. That cohort, more than any other, will have their non-sport college experience impacted more than any other (the year ahead of them got half a freshman year pre-covid; the year behind them had a covid impact but much less than the HS ‘20s). So their college world was reduced even more than under “normal” circumstances.


Wasn't just athletes.  My 2020 kid dropped after a semester of crappy food, living by herself most of the time, and stuck taking classes in her room.  All at a crazy large price that she and I were paying.   Having a sport might have let her meet others with the same love.


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## Code

Thank you to everyone posting about thier thoughts and experiences.  I really appreciate your insight.


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## youthsportsuggghhhhgghh

dk_b said:


> I am not one to say, "Make sure they love the school first because the sport may disappear" because I'm of the belief that, for many, a huge part of this big time decision is made because of the sport, the team, the athletic department - that is the group you will be spending most of your time around (their teammates but also other athletes) as they integrate into the campus and they may have made a totally different decision but for the sport.


I did like the soap box post!!   I however, would say that the school needs to be used at the beginning to make your list of schools (1-20 based solely on the school) you want to make contact with -- then you add the soccer into the mix.  They have to work closely because like you say it is a GRIND!  If the player is used to being a star and now getting 5 minutes every other game the soccer is going to be tough even if the girls on the team are "nice".  Then if they aren't happy in the location of the school it will be that much more difficult!
Then when making the final decision you can make the decision about soccer and will you be happy on the grind in your 10th favorite school because it is your 1st favorite soccer choice or do you want more balance and have your 5/5 school.
Don't get intimidated with the process and don't be afraid to ask all of the questions
I am interested to see how this years 04 group does next year as freshman all over the country!


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## Dubs

shso





Mystery Train said:


> YES!
> 
> I know exactly what you mean when you talk about the old teams and those elite players.  I've watched many of the same ones and followed what happened after college started.
> 
> So true about evaluating the school and what a huge part of the the decision the sport/team/program culture is.  One thing I didn't understand is how little of the college life a player gets to experience outside their team.  I mean, they're still college students and yes, they will go to parties and events, etc. (NOT during season in her program) but it's almost always with teammates or sometimes other athletes from other sports.  In my kid's 2.5 years at school, I don't think she has a solid lasting friendship that she's made outside of soccer or one of the other sports.  And that's not because she's shy or stuck up or bent on only hanging with athletes.  It's because they all share the same reality and the same physical space for the vast majority of their waking day.  And the "NARP's" (Non-Athletic Regular People) as the players call them, often don't understand why she can't join in and do all the stuff they get to do, so it makes it VERY hard to fit into a social group outside of your team.  It can be done, but it takes extra effort on top of the exceptional effort they're already expending to be an athlete.  So just imagine how shitty your child's school experience would be if things on the team, between teammates, between coaches, between your roommates get tense! AND THEY 100% WILL GET TENSE, GUARANTEED.  It's impossible for it not to.  Mix in the probability that a kid is away from home for the first time and simultaneously doing the hardest physical work they've ever done in their life and honestly, it's no wonder so many leave the sport!
> 
> As I'm typing this, I'm seriously wondering why anyone would choose this path to begin with if they knew what it was really like.  I'm trying to stop using the word "quit" when I talk about my DD's former club teammates or her current college teammates when they decide it's the end of soccer for themselves.  I've gained a lot of respect for many of the kids that ended up coming to that conclusion because I understand now that they were able to accurately predict what was in their best interests going forward and are benefitting greatly from that choice now.  That takes guts, too.  Especially when so many people around you (especially parents) have made this such a big deal for your whole life.
> 
> Your closing quote puts it best:
> "I'd predict that, on balance, the take away is positive but I'd suspect it is non-linear, full of highs and lows, and they are both sad when it ends but also grateful their kids have come through it OK."


Again, spot on.  Parents reading this thread, do not dismiss anything said.   This is the most real assessement of the reality of D1 women's soccer.  Let it marinate, as it will help you deal with your DDs situation (whether they play or not) in their first year.


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## SD_Soccer

Mystery Train said:


> I'm sure even if the NCAA has the resources to do the data mining and publishing they would have ZERO interest in sharing it to the public as it would be a very bad look.  From purely anecdotal data collected from the small network of club/college soccer connections my DD and I have, for every 1 example of a kid who played decent minutes in their first two years, there are a more than a dozen that played 0, transferred, got injured/ACL, or quit soccer altogether.  What's wild too, is that within that band of kids we know who went on to college soccer, how each of them did relative to each other in their youth soccer careers didn't translate to college in the least.  The biggest stud on her team who got the most impressive scholarship/school situation played sparingly as a freshman, scored one goal, and quit.  One of the kids who only played 50% of the time in club really blossomed and ended up starting for their team deep into the D1 playoffs because the player ahead of her on the depth chart got injured.  Half of the kids we know that were signed to play soccer in college never saw the field and either quit or transferred.  And I think the story of the recent college athlete suicides proves that getting scholarships, playing time, winning championships, and getting accolades doesn't make it all worth it.  College sports and soccer in particular is brutal, unpredictable, and much less glorious than any of the parents I know imagined when they embarked on the recruitment process, myself included.  Many of the seniors on her college team, even the ones who started and play huge minutes end up leaving before eligibility is up just because it's such a grind and they want to enjoy life for a bit before going out into the world.  I never understood that logic until watching it all up close.  My DD's situation is fortunate by comparison to most of her former teammates, but we understand fully how brief and fleeting all of it is, and most importantly, how "out of our hands" so much of this experience can be.  My advice to parents starting the process has changed over the years and now I tell parents of young kids "I don't recommend pursuing college soccer, but if your kid won't take no for an answer, you have to get your kid to *not* focus on the scholarship, the accolades, the playing time, the results, or even the personal goals:  focusing only on self-improvement and learning from whatever happens.  It is the only way to survive it with some sense of success.


My daughter plays at a D3. Entering her senior year of college. Most players she knows who stretched into a D1 school (either D1 in general or tried to get to that elite D1 program they were probably not really good enough to get on the pitch for that program) quit or never saw the field and/or transferred. While she has started all 3 years at a winning D3 program and continues to enjoy the game. All college athletes put in a ton of time and make a lot of sacrifices, and when they see they will not likely be able to get playing time, that is hard to keep putting in all the effort. I believe parents do their kids a huge disservice when they let their egos help drive their kids’ decisions (e.g., I want to be able to say my daughter plays in the Pac12).

We know we influence them, and they generally trust us. My advice to any parent and athlete, maybe take the program offer that you know you are good enough to get playing time at a school she likes. If you and/or your child cannot be objective about ability to get on the field, find someone you trust to tell you truth (Club coach, another parent who has been through the process, etc). Ask questions and encourage them to give you answers you may not want to hear (e.g., “your child is really good, but they may not ever play for a Pac12 school, but they will be able to play in Big West.). Some of this also comes from the schools recruiting your player. If most conversations are with Big West schools, and only one Pac12 shows interest in her, it may be a stretch. Most college players will not make a living from soccer, so why not help them find a university they like and a team they will get the chance to play the game they love. Most of the players leaving I lay the blame on the parents‘ poor advice.


----------



## Soccer43

One other factor to keep in mind is there can be a coach change before your player arrives for her freshman year.  If you commit June after Sophomore year then you have two more years before you arrive for college.  I think there were over 30 coaching changes this year, maybe more. Everything is great with the school, the scholarship offer and the team and then everything can tune upside down if the school changes the coach.  It is a twist to keep in mind and be prepared for how you want to handle that should it happen


----------



## dk_b

Soccer43 said:


> One other factor to keep in mind is there can be a coach change before your player arrives for her freshman year.  If you commit June after Sophomore year then you have two more years before you arrive for college.  I think there were over 30 coaching changes this year, maybe more. Everything is great with the school, the scholarship offer and the team and then everything can tune upside down if the school changes the coach.  It is a twist to keep in mind and be prepared for how you want to handle that should it happen


The coach that recruited my daughter was out 5 days before NLI signing day (we were on our way to AZ for an ECNL showcase, got a heads up on the way to the airport and the news was public by the time we touched down). She did sign and they did not hire the replacement for a bit (maybe 6 weeks, I can’t remember). That can happen, as we experienced - and for a position like GK, it is really common for GK coaches to turn over so if your kid is an early commit, very good chance that the keeper coach will be different by the time she or he arrives


----------



## Soccer43

Yes


SD_Soccer said:


> My daughter plays at a D3. Entering her senior year of college. Most players she knows who stretched into a D1 school (either D1 in general or tried to get to that elite D1 program they were probably not really good enough to get on the pitch for that program) quit or never saw the field and/or transferred. While she has started all 3 years at a winning D3 program and continues to enjoy the game. All college athletes put in a ton of time and make a lot of sacrifices, and when they see they will not likely be able to get playing time, that is hard to keep putting in all the effort. I believe parents do their kids a huge disservice when they let their egos help drive their kids’ decisions (e.g., I want to be able to say my daughter plays in the Pac12).
> 
> We know we influence them, and they generally trust us. My advice to any parent and athlete, maybe take the program offer that you know you are good enough to get playing time at a school she likes. If you and/or your child cannot be objective about ability to get on the field, find someone you trust to tell you truth (Club coach, another parent who has been through the process, etc). Ask questions and encourage them to give you answers you may not want to hear (e.g., “your child is really good, but they may not ever play for a Pac12 school, but they will be able to play in Big West.). Some of this also comes from the schools recruiting your player. If most conversations are with Big West schools, and only one Pac12 shows interest in her, it may be a stretch. Most college players will not make a living from soccer, so why not help them find a university they like and a team they will get the chance to play the game they love. Most of the players leaving I lay the blame on the parents‘ poor advice.


yes, I am a fan of D3 schools as well.  I would much prefer my DD play on a good d3 school, play for conference championships and having time and flexibility to live a full life than having the D1 grind on a low level, crappy school that never a wins any games or competing for anything post season and many of those sacrificing academic quality along the way


----------



## Soccer43

dk_b said:


> The coach that recruited my daughter was out 5 days before NLI signing day (we were on our way to AZ for an ECNL showcase, got a heads up on the way to the airport and the news was public by the time we touched down). She did sign and they did not hire the replacement for a bit (maybe 6 weeks, I can’t remember). That can happen, as we experienced - and for a position like GK, it is really common for GK coaches to turn over so if your kid is an early commit, very good chance that the keeper coach will be different by the time she or he arrives


Yes, and what you commited to going into you Junior year in HS looks nothing like what you get when you arrive.  A coach change like that can change style of play, recruiting, starters, scholarship offers etc- what you were told ends up not happening and you may have to make big decisions.  There is no protection for the player so it is helpful to have backup plans if the coach change becomes a problem and to just be aware that the verbal commitment isn’t magical to secure your experience for when it comes down to arriving on campus.


----------



## Mystery Train

SD_Soccer said:


> My daughter plays at a D3. Entering her senior year of college. Most players she knows who stretched into a D1 school (either D1 in general or tried to get to that elite D1 program they were probably not really good enough to get on the pitch for that program) quit or never saw the field and/or transferred. While she has started all 3 years at a winning D3 program and continues to enjoy the game. All college athletes put in a ton of time and make a lot of sacrifices, and when they see they will not likely be able to get playing time, that is hard to keep putting in all the effort. I believe parents do their kids a huge disservice when they let their egos help drive their kids’ decisions (e.g., I want to be able to say my daughter plays in the Pac12).
> 
> We know we influence them, and they generally trust us. My advice to any parent and athlete, maybe take the program offer that you know you are good enough to get playing time at a school she likes. If you and/or your child cannot be objective about ability to get on the field, find someone you trust to tell you truth (Club coach, another parent who has been through the process, etc). Ask questions and encourage them to give you answers you may not want to hear (e.g., “your child is really good, but they may not ever play for a Pac12 school, but they will be able to play in Big West.). Some of this also comes from the schools recruiting your player. If most conversations are with Big West schools, and only one Pac12 shows interest in her, it may be a stretch. Most college players will not make a living from soccer, so why not help them find a university they like and a team they will get the chance to play the game they love. Most of the players leaving I lay the blame on the parents‘ poor advice.


Yep.  Great point.  I would expand that to D2 and NAIA as well.  There are far more players CAPABLE of playing D1 than there are D1 starting positions.  So that means except for the top 1%, you're at the mercy of so many factors out of your control to see the field.  If you're not going pro or playing for a national team, wouldn't you rather go somewhere where your reward for hard work will mean a good chance at playing time in your 4 years?  

Here's something that I'm sure your daughter can vouch for:  I bet it's a GRIND for her in her D3 program as well.  Soccer coaches, no matter the division, ultimately get paid to coach soccer (which means trying to win games) and no institution, no matter if it's a Power 5 D1 or NAIA, is going to leave a coach in place who loses constantly.  So that means no matter what level your kid plays, the coach is going to take it seriously because their livelihood depends on it.  Which means he/she is going to be demanding and push the players to perform.  None of these levels employ these coaches to run an intramural program.  None of them give out playing time AYSO style.  So they ALL work their player's tails off.  The real difference at D1 is player size, athleticism, and depth (and depending on the school facilities).  But the grind is pretty much the same.  I've seen plenty of players wash out in small schools at D3 and D2 because they thought it would be more laid back.  But those coaches get fired just the same way.  You're not going to have many 5'10 forwards with track speed in D3 or D2, but guess what?  You're still going to run the beep test and puke your guts out to pass the fitness test.  You're still going to get benched for breaking team rules or underperforming.  During my kid's recruitment, I talked with coaches from all levels and they all said the same thing:  no HS kid is prepared for how hard they're going to have to work and the discipline required for it.


----------



## dk_b

Mystery Train said:


> Yep.  Great point.  I would expand that to D2 and NAIA as well.  There are far more players CAPABLE of playing D1 than there are D1 starting positions.  So that means except for the top 1%, you're at the mercy of so many factors out of your control to see the field.  If you're not going pro or playing for a national team, wouldn't you rather go somewhere where your reward for hard work will mean a good chance at playing time in your 4 years?
> 
> Here's something that I'm sure your daughter can vouch for:  I bet it's a GRIND for her in her D3 program as well.  Soccer coaches, no matter the division, ultimately get paid to coach soccer (which means trying to win games) and no institution, no matter if it's a Power 5 D1 or NAIA, is going to leave a coach in place who loses constantly.  So that means no matter what level your kid plays, the coach is going to take it seriously because their livelihood depends on it.  Which means he/she is going to be demanding and push the players to perform.  None of these levels employ these coaches to run an intramural program.  None of them give out playing time AYSO style.  So they ALL work their player's tails off.  The real difference at D1 is player size, athleticism, and depth (and depending on the school facilities).  But the grind is pretty much the same.  I've seen plenty of players wash out in small schools at D3 and D2 because they thought it would be more laid back.  But those coaches get fired just the same way.  You're not going to have many 5'10 forwards with track speed in D3 or D2, but guess what?  You're still going to run the beep test and puke your guts out to pass the fitness test.  You're still going to get benched for breaking team rules or underperforming.  During my kid's recruitment, I talked with coaches from all levels and they all said the same thing:  no HS kid is prepared for how hard they're going to have to work and the discipline required for it.


I agree with pretty much everything you have written, @Mystery Train.  We have friends and family playing at every level on the women's side and we have seen players stop playing, be kicked off, be strongly encouraged to transfer . . . at pretty much every level. And we have seen coaches canned at every level. We have also seen late bloomers and/or players who continue to put in the work and get rewarded by increased playing time as they've shown that they can compete at the right level (it might start with - can you give us 5 mins at the end of a half w/o exposing us too much to can you give us a full half to can you start to can you play 80 or 90 in a meaningful game?). There is a player at one of the best programs in the country, a program that gets replenished with national team players year in and year out, who kept putting in the work and was one of the top in minutes last season as a Junior (#2 on her team, I think) after barely playing in her first two years - in some ways a player like that gives up more than most since she's not getting much $, could easily be "enjoying" a different college experience and, yet, still grinds it out.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn

Does anybody have numbers around college soccer players who actually stay with the sport for four years?  Or maybe average freshman recruiting class sizes where you can infer the amount of attrition?  Feels like when colleges announce new recruiting classes the numbers are in the 8 to 12 player range.


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## Mystery Train

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Does anybody have numbers around college soccer players who actually stay with the sport for four years?  Or maybe average freshman recruiting class sizes where you can infer the amount of attrition?  Feels like when colleges announce new recruiting classes the numbers are in the 8 to 12 player range.


That was part of the question simi asked that got this discussion going.  I think 8-12 is on the low side for recruiting classes.  My kid's school has had 18 and 16 the past two years.  But I don't have any hard data beyond that.  It's harder to infer the attrition rate when you try to account for redshirt years, transfers, and walk-ons, but one way I tried to calculate it was by counting the number of 4-5 year seniors on rosters.  If you figured that the average recruiting class is say, 12, and there's 6 seniors on the team, you could guess the attrition rate is 50% for that particular class.

Also, that count should be done after the season starts as the summer roster will look huge because it hasn't been updated after cuts are made


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## crush

Mystery Train said:


> That was part of the question simi asked that got this discussion going.  I think 8-12 is on the low side for recruiting classes.  My kid's school has had 18 and 16 the past two years.  But I don't have any hard data beyond that.  It's harder to infer the attrition rate when you try to account for redshirt years, transfers, and walk-ons, but one way I tried to calculate it was by counting the number of 4-5 year seniors on rosters.  If you figured that the average recruiting class is say, 12, and there's 6 seniors on the team, you could guess the attrition rate is 50% for that particular class.
> 
> Also, that count should be done after the season starts as the summer roster will look huge because it hasn't been updated after cuts are made


I was told 4 years ago only 20% stay and play and finish what they started. I have no idea about today's stats but it did come from one of the most honest Docs I know. He told me this whole soccer is a big biz and the customers want one thing: A deal for dd for school. I can take a random sample of 10 players that I personally know from class of 2021 and now 2022. 3 have quit already. 3 have transferred. 2 are very depressed and want to come home but are afraid that dad will get pissed. 1 is very happy and the other one is looking to transfer because the weather sucks!!


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## Mystery Train

crush said:


> I was told 4 years ago only 20% stay and play and finish what they started. I have no idea about today's stats but it did come from one of the most honest Docs I know. He told me this whole soccer is a big biz and the customers want one thing: A deal for dd for school. I can take a random sample of 10 players that I personally know from class of 2021 and now 2022. 3 have quit already. 3 have transferred. 2 are very depressed and want to come home but are afraid that dad will get pissed. 1 is very happy and the other one is looking to transfer because the weather sucks!!


Sounds about right to me.


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## oh canada

Good read below. The college soccer grind is REAL. And, I don't think our SoCal clubs do our girls any favors by playing 35+ games and year-round practices for the four years leading into college.

“There’s a bit of repetitiveness of how soccer goes,” Fuller says. “I remember telling my therapist I just felt like I was on this hamster wheel. And then it just resets every year. You just have to do the same thing. You keep having to fight for a spot.” She was burnt out. 









						Sarah Fuller: Football kicker’s mental health struggle, advocacy - Sports Illustrated
					

Sarah Fuller, who moonlighted as a kicker for Vanderbilt during the 2020 season, has become an advocate for better mental health resources at colleges.




					www.si.com


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## dk_b

oh canada said:


> Good read below. The college soccer grind is REAL. And, I don't think our SoCal clubs do our girls any favors by playing 35+ games and year-round practices for the four years leading into college.
> 
> “There’s a bit of repetitiveness of how soccer goes,” Fuller says. “I remember telling my therapist I just felt like I was on this hamster wheel. And then it just resets every year. You just have to do the same thing. You keep having to fight for a spot.” She was burnt out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah Fuller: Football kicker’s mental health struggle, advocacy - Sports Illustrated
> 
> 
> Sarah Fuller, who moonlighted as a kicker for Vanderbilt during the 2020 season, has become an advocate for better mental health resources at colleges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.si.com


The club scene is not set up for “love of the game” and good mental health, certainly not for the bulk of the players (including many elite players who still manage to succeed in that system). It’s a reason why playing HS soccer is, on balance, “healthier” than just training w/the club during that period (yes, I know the anecdotes of people saying that HS soccer contributes to injury but having watched years of club and HS, I have seen a higher percentage of serious injuries during club than during HS. The argument about skill erosion is ludicrous, too. Otherwise, any injury that puts a player on the shelf for 3 months would be a career-threatener). Healthier b/c of the mental adjustment that happens in HS - less pressure, more “fun”, representing the school, etc.

Further, simply giving more and longer breaks (like at the beginning of summer - do elite players even have ANY break?) staggered in the year would allow for mental and physical resets. Soccer is not alone, of course, as travel baseball and AAU hoops, volleyball, etc. have turned those sports into year round activities. In fact, the only sport that doesn’t seem to be year round now is football - and even that is changing with the increase in passing leagues, camps, etc.


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## socalkdg

Mystery Train said:


> That was part of the question simi asked that got this discussion going.  I think 8-12 is on the low side for recruiting classes.  My kid's school has had 18 and 16 the past two years.  But I don't have any hard data beyond that.  It's harder to infer the attrition rate when you try to account for redshirt years, transfers, and walk-ons, but one way I tried to calculate it was by counting the number of 4-5 year seniors on rosters.  If you figured that the average recruiting class is say, 12, and there's 6 seniors on the team, you could guess the attrition rate is 50% for that particular class.
> 
> Also, that count should be done after the season starts as the summer roster will look huge because it hasn't been updated after cuts are made


Daughters school(starts in fall of 2023) has 8 2022's coming in(2 college transfers, 1 JC transfer, 5 from High School)   6 2023's so far(all from High School), with two spots still open.  30 on the roster (3 keepers).  This can change for 2023 as players decide to graduate instead of playing the extra year, decide to transfer, or decide to quit playing (lack of playing time or loss of interest or time management).   I would think each school is different depending on where they usually recruit with how many players they bring in every year.  

I'm thankful my daughter didn't start soccer until she was 9, plus played other sports through her sophomore year, which I hope keeps the burnout factor from occurring.  She is also at a one of her top 3 choices in the area she wants to be (So Cal).   She realized after a couple visits that going out of State wasn't for her. 

Let your kid pick the school they love, disregard division level, and make sure they will get some playing time.   Can't imagine what life would be like for a kid going from 90 minute games 30 times a year to 10 minutes games 20 times a year.


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## LASoccerMom

"Let your kid pick the school they love."

A college friend just emailed about her son's journey.

"He had no intention of playing soccer. He got in early decision to his dream school and then they contacted him in February to ask if he was interested in trying out, then he flew to the school on April 29 for ID camp and got an offer. He very clearly understands that he is third string keeper behind a senior and another freshman. He is just happy to have the opportunity to play in college! Never in a million years thought he would."


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## socalkdg

socalkdg said:


> Daughters school(starts in fall of 2023) has 8 2022's coming in(2 college transfers, 1 JC transfer, 5 from High School)   6 2023's so far(all from High School), with two spots still open.  30 on the roster (3 keepers).  This can change for 2023 as players decide to graduate instead of playing the extra year, decide to transfer, or decide to quit playing (lack of playing time or loss of interest or time management).   I would think each school is different depending on where they usually recruit with how many players they bring in every year.
> 
> Let your kid pick the school they love, disregard division level, and make sure they will get some playing time.   Can't imagine what life would be like for a kid going from 90 minute games 30 times a year to 10 minutes games 20 times a year.


So it looks like 2023 recruiting is over and we ended up with 8 recruits. I think it was 2 GA, 2 ECRL, 3 ECNL, and 1 Premier player.  3 from Northern California,  5 from Southern California.   No transfers that I know of.  I believe they had zero official visits during recruiting.  

Just a cool thing the school is doing, they will have all 8 girls in together for their official visit, watch a game, watch a training, share a meal together, stay with current players.  I know a couple other schools my daughter spoke with were going to do the same thing.   So don't get hung up on whether something is an official or unofficial visit when you go to the school.


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## Own Goal

dk_b said:


> Further, simply giving more and longer breaks (like at the beginning of summer - do elite players even have ANY break?) staggered in the year would allow for mental and physical resets. Soccer is not alone, of course, as travel baseball and AAU hoops, volleyball, etc. have turned those sports into year round activities. In fact, the only sport that doesn’t seem to be year round now is football - and even that is changing with the increase in passing leagues, camps, etc.


My DD who is in her second year at a D1 school just commented on this. She said there was really no break between finishing their spring season and finals and spending her summer playing in a summer league and going to summer school and preparing to show up fit for preseason. It's a constant grind and there's little time for mental and physical recovery. She chose D1 over D3 because she wanted a spring season and intense year round training, but it is not for everyone and does not allow for the college/soccer/life balance that some athletes may be seeking. She got injured in their first preseason match this year and now it is unlikely she will get to play this fall (still awaiting MRI results). Broken leg test being put to the test - this is a whole new level of mental and physical challenge for her. She's up for the challenge and where she wants to be, but it is easy to see how after their Freshman season student athletes realize the difference in expectations versus reality and need to make a change. And that's okay.


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## Mystery Train

Own Goal said:


> My DD who is in her second year at a D1 school just commented on this. She said there was really no break between finishing their spring season and finals and spending her summer playing in a summer league and going to summer school and preparing to show up fit for preseason. It's a constant grind and there's little time for mental and physical recovery. She chose D1 over D3 because she wanted a spring season and intense year round training, but it is not for everyone and does not allow for the college/soccer/life balance that some athletes may be seeking. She got injured in their first preseason match this year and now it is unlikely she will get to play this fall (still awaiting MRI results). Broken leg test being put to the test - this is a whole new level of mental and physical challenge for her. She's up for the challenge and where she wants to be, but it is easy to see how after their Freshman season student athletes realize the difference in expectations versus reality and need to make a change. And that's okay.


Sorry to hear about your DD's injury.  Last year there was a 5th year senior at my DD's school who had delayed graduating to play her final year of soccer since Covid cancelled her senior season in '20, tore her ACL in the first 10 minutes of the first pre-season game.  Losing entire seasons to things outside of your control is such a reality for college players that you have to go into it knowing that every time you see the field in a game, you should consider yourself blessed.  Good luck to your daughter in recovery.


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## Own Goal

Mystery Train said:


> Sorry to hear about your DD's injury.  Last year there was a 5th year senior at my DD's school who had delayed graduating to play her final year of soccer since Covid cancelled her senior season in '20, tore her ACL in the first 10 minutes of the first pre-season game.  Losing entire seasons to things outside of your control is such a reality for college players that you have to go into it knowing that every time you see the field in a game, you should consider yourself blessed.  Good luck to your daughter in recovery.


Thank you. Full MCL tear. Out for at least 2 months, so no fall season and will redshirt. But she's optimistic and grateful for an extra year of eligibility. And it's so sure - every minute on the field is a blessing for these kids.


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## Abraham Parnasis

Want your kid to stay and play all the way through an NCAA program? The best advice we can give to players and parents looking at D1 and D2 programs:  Research the coach-  Leadership and intelligent coaching are sorely lacking at the college level.  NCAA programs fail their student-athletes due to their head coaches.  Unfortunately, motivation through borderline abusive rhetoric, lack of empathy, and nonsensical coaching exist at the college level.  Our kids have had better club-level coaching from good human-beings that lead by example the type of team they want to build. Please interview former players that played for that coach. Do your homework as best as you can. We did not do our homework and bought the "song and dance" from the coach; big mistake.  Best of luck to your future college athletes.


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## espola

Abraham Parnasis said:


> Want your kid to stay and play all the way through an NCAA program? The best advice we can give to players and parents looking at D1 and D2 programs:  Research the coach-  Leadership and intelligent coaching are sorely lacking at the college level.  NCAA programs fail their student-athletes due to their head coaches.  Unfortunately, motivation through borderline abusive rhetoric, lack of empathy, and nonsensical coaching exist at the college level.  Our kids have had better club-level coaching from good human-beings that lead by example the type of team they want to build. Please interview former players that played for that coach. Do your homework as best as you can. We did not do our homework and bought the "song and dance" from the coach; big mistake.  Best of luck to your future college athletes.


It's not clear yet how much impact the NIL decision will have, especially on soccer players.  That may become a factor as some colleges become better at raising money for their athletes (although, technically, the colleges can have little or no control of the process).


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## Mystery Train

Abraham Parnasis said:


> Want your kid to stay and play all the way through an NCAA program? The best advice we can give to players and parents looking at D1 and D2 programs:  Research the coach-  Leadership and intelligent coaching are sorely lacking at the college level.  NCAA programs fail their student-athletes due to their head coaches.  Unfortunately, motivation through borderline abusive rhetoric, lack of empathy, and nonsensical coaching exist at the college level.  Our kids have had better club-level coaching from good human-beings that lead by example the type of team they want to build. Please interview former players that played for that coach. Do your homework as best as you can. We did not do our homework and bought the "song and dance" from the coach; big mistake.  Best of luck to your future college athletes.


Likewise, I found it interesting to discover how many college coaches (even ones at moderately high profile state universities) turn out to be duller of personality and more lacking in soccer IQ than some youth club coaches we ran into.   As far as moral and ethical standards, there are quite a few that are shady as hell.  It can be a wild ride for sure.


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## myself

Abraham Parnasis said:


> Want your kid to stay and play all the way through an NCAA program? The best advice we can give to players and parents looking at D1 and D2 programs:  Research the coach-  Leadership and intelligent coaching are sorely lacking at the college level.  NCAA programs fail their student-athletes due to their head coaches.  Unfortunately, motivation through borderline abusive rhetoric, lack of empathy, and nonsensical coaching exist at the college level.  Our kids have had better club-level coaching from good human-beings that lead by example the type of team they want to build. Please interview former players that played for that coach. Do your homework as best as you can. We did not do our homework and bought the "song and dance" from the coach; big mistake.  Best of luck to your future college athletes.





Mystery Train said:


> Likewise, I found it interesting to discover how many college coaches (even ones at moderately high profile state universities) turn out to be duller of personality and more lacking in soccer IQ than some youth club coaches we ran into.   As far as moral and ethical standards, there are quite a few that are shady as hell.  It can be a wild ride for sure.


Story time?


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## Abraham Parnasis

Someday I will write a tell-all book and it would be a best seller for sure.  In the meantime, protect your kids, college should be the best time of their young lives, full of promise and potential. I will not fail to course-correct in the meantime toward an institution that values its best resources. In all my years of business, how you treat your people says so much about the company and its culture.  If these NCAA programs were businesses, they would fail miserably.


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## Sike

Has this been discussed on this forum? Seems like a potential major change for soccer.









						NCAA committee discussing converting equivalency sports to full scholarship; Pac-12 supports what would be biggest change to college athletics since Title IX
					

The move could cost FBS schools over $1 billion annually in additional scholarship funding




					www.oregonlive.com


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## Mystery Train

Sike said:


> Has this been discussed on this forum? Seems like a potential major change for soccer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NCAA committee discussing converting equivalency sports to full scholarship; Pac-12 supports what would be biggest change to college athletics since Title IX
> 
> 
> The move could cost FBS schools over $1 billion annually in additional scholarship funding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oregonlive.com


I don't think it has been discussed.  Wow, that's a huge deal.  Would be an enormous boon for youth club soccer as it would instantly re-invigorate all those parents trying to live vicariously through their children's athletic accomplishments.  In related news, once this goes into effect all parents of 2002 birth year college soccer players will break the world record for collective simultaneous facepalming.


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## espola

Mystery Train said:


> I don't think it has been discussed.  Wow, that's a huge deal.  Would be an enormous boon for youth club soccer as it would instantly re-invigorate all those parents trying to live vicariously through their children's athletic accomplishments.  In related news, once this goes into effect all parents of 2002 birth year college soccer players will break the world record for collective simultaneous facepalming.


There are a lot of unknowns -- what will the headcount numbers be?  How will this be funded?  Will some conferences voluntarily restrict the headcount to keep costs down?


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## oh canada

Sike said:


> Has this been discussed on this forum? Seems like a potential major change for soccer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NCAA committee discussing converting equivalency sports to full scholarship; Pac-12 supports what would be biggest change to college athletics since Title IX
> 
> 
> The move could cost FBS schools over $1 billion annually in additional scholarship funding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oregonlive.com


article touches on this, but I'm not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing for soccer? Yes, good, in that more players potentially get full scholarships vs partial or none. But, in order to pay those scholarships, many schools will have to cut sports altogether. If that means cutting mens and womens soccer teams, then big picture bad for soccer student athletes. That will trickle down to soccer clubs - fewer college opportunities = no more B and C teams. Interesting.


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## lafalafa

Sike said:


> Has this been discussed on this forum? Seems like a potential major change for soccer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NCAA committee discussing converting equivalency sports to full scholarship; Pac-12 supports what would be biggest change to college athletics since Title IX
> 
> 
> The move could cost FBS schools over $1 billion annually in additional scholarship funding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.oregonlive.com


No chance, pac12 going broke unless they manage to stop UCLA and USC moves.

College sports besides football and basketball might become less relevant and funded.  Serious tennis, soccer,  and golf players going pro since there is little incentives to play college sports especially when you can get a degree fully or almost exclusively online at many places nowadays.


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## GoldenGate

lafalafa said:


> No chance, pac12 going broke unless they manage to stop UCLA and USC moves.
> 
> College sports besides football and basketball might become less relevant and funded.  Serious tennis, soccer,  and golf players going pro since there is little incentives to play college sports especially when you can get a degree fully or almost exclusively online at many places nowadays.


Brace yourselves for an era in which women's soccer (and all non-revenue sports) gravitate to a DIII/Ivy League model with no athletic scholarships.  It is a pipe dream to expect athletic departments that are already losing tens of millions of dollars to agree to lose even more money.  Many athletic departments that have tried to survive off the largess of football and basketball are about to be in really bad shape even without having to fully fund scholarships in other sports, because the costs of football are increasing while revenues are decreasing for all but a handful in the SEC and Big10. As the Ivy League has always known, collegiate athletics is an indulgence for both the school and the athletes.  Although college sports can be a great perk to recruit great students, it is not worth saddling a college in massive debt.


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## espola

GoldenGate said:


> Brace yourselves for an era in which women's soccer (and all non-revenue sports) gravitate to a DIII/Ivy League model with no athletic scholarships.  It is a pipe dream to expect athletic departments that are already losing tens of millions of dollars to agree to lose even more money.  Many athletic departments that have tried to survive off the largess of football and basketball are about to be in really bad shape even without having to fully fund scholarships in other sports, because the costs of football are increasing while revenues are decreasing for all but a handful in the SEC and Big10. As the Ivy League has always known, collegiate athletics is an indulgence for both the school and the athletes.  Although college sports can be a great perk to recruit great students, it is not worth saddling a college in massive debt.


The great majority of DI football programs lose money, so that would be a good place to start cutting.


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## socalkdg

Big mistake as many schools don't have the income to support that.  Many schools don't even use the full 14 scholarships available.  

Plus when I read this comment, I worry about the people discussing this.
_“I do agree with one thing, our athletic directors do pull their hair out over this equivalent stuff; 11.7 baseball scholarships — that’s kind of a nutty system.  _
*Not that hard.  If you go with 28 roster spots.   4 full scholarships. 7 half scholarships.   17 quarter scholarships.    Wow, pulling my hair (don't have any anyways).  *


----------



## Dargle

socalkdg said:


> Big mistake as many schools don't have the income to support that.  Many schools don't even use the full 14 scholarships available.
> 
> Plus when I read this comment, I worry about the people discussing this.
> _“I do agree with one thing, our athletic directors do pull their hair out over this equivalent stuff; 11.7 baseball scholarships — that’s kind of a nutty system.  _
> *Not that hard.  If you go with 28 roster spots.   4 full scholarships. 7 half scholarships.   17 quarter scholarships.    Wow, pulling my hair (don't have any anyways).  *


I don't think the coaches are worried about the math (or at least the universities have bean counters who can do the math for them). The issue is the negotiation over the amount of the scholarship and the fact that there really isn't anything that requires them to go into those nice neat categories you've set forth.  Of course, coaches can make it simpler if they want to just let kids walk by issuing take-it or leave-it offers like the ones above. It would be even easier to just issue full scholarships to x numbers of players - e.g., 14 full scholarships (for women) and 9 (for men, instead of the 9.9 allowed) - and make the distinction between scholarship and walk-on players clear, but the market may not allow coaches to do that because mid-level, but valuable, players are shopping around their offers and parents want to tell their friends their kid got a scholarship.  That's where the practice of spreading it around started, including where a decent number of "scholarship" kids get books only or books and meals.


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## Simisoccerfan

Well that’s a rap.  Career over.  Time to find a hobby. Word of advice, don’t trust coaches.  Most only looking out for themselves.


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## LadiesMan217

Simisoccerfan said:


> Well that’s a rap.  Career over.  Time to find a hobby. Word of advice, don’t trust coaches.  Most only looking out for themselves.


That went by fast!


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## lafalafa

Simisoccerfan said:


> Well that’s a rap.  Career over.  Time to find a hobby. Word of advice, don’t trust coaches.  Most only looking out for themselves.


Thanks for contributing, your insight was helpful.

How did your player like the education they received at the university(ies)  they went to?

On career path with a degree with job prospects or secured one or looking at continuing on with more higher education like a masters.


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## Mystery Train

Simisoccerfan said:


> Well that’s a rap.  Career over.  Time to find a hobby. Word of advice, don’t trust coaches.  Most only looking out for themselves.


I can't believe it went by that fast.  Congrats to your DD for surviving the gauntlet.  Is there anything you or your daughter would have done differently now looking back if you knew then what you know now?


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## outside!

Simisoccerfan said:


> Well that’s a rap.  Career over.  Time to find a hobby. Word of advice, don’t trust coaches.  Most only looking out for themselves.


Most?


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## Swoosh

outside! said:


> Most?


There are good and bad just like all walks of life.  And most coaches don't/can't trust players either, especially in 2022.  Coaches have the agenda of the team/program, and players/families have their agenda of getting a chunk of the 990 minutes available each game.  With 30+ on rosters, this is a natural clash of agendas.  Athletics is a business.  Treat it as such, and you won't get burned.


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## Dubs

Swoosh said:


> There are good and bad just like all walks of life.  And most coaches don't/can't trust players either, especially in 2022.  Coaches have the agenda of the team/program, and players/families have their agenda of getting a chunk of the 990 minutes available each game.  With 30+ on rosters, this is a natural clash of agendas.  Athletics is a business.  Treat it as such, and you won't get burned.


You can treat it as such and still get burned


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## ToonArmy

Congrats to all singing their NLI tomorrow!


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## socalkdg

ToonArmy said:


> Congrats to all singing their NLI tomorrow!


Very exciting morning as my daughter signed at 9 am.   Only soccer player at the signing, with mostly softball and baseball players.


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## Simisoccerfan

It has taken me a few days to collect my thoughts the best I can but they are still clouded by emotion.  Here goes:

Soccer was never my daughters number one priority nor should it have been.  She loves her school and her teammates.  She has had so many wonderful experiences at college and developed life long friends from college and her club.  So no she would not change any of her decisions though clearly she wished she played more.  She played most games but not all and those were decisions made by others. 


Soccer was probably my number one priority for her for most of her college career and I was wrong for putting it so.  As a parent you want the best for your kid.  There are many steps on the path from playing AYSO as 4 year old to graduating from a D1 program as scholarship athlete.  Very few players make it the end.  It is easy to get caught up in that path and always looking for more.  The best advice I can give is enjoy the whole journey however far she makes it because it all ends too fast. 


Things will happen that are out of your control.  Injuries, torn acl’s, coaching changes, and new recruits every year are a few of them.  You have no control over coaching decisions too.   These things will change the experience for your kid.  Learn to deal with them. 


Coaches are being paid to win.  They get bonuses for it too or fired if they lose to much.  They also don’t get paid much. Almost every assistant coach makes less then your kid will make in their first job.  They have their own agenda and all too often that agenda is not what’s best for your kid.  This ain’t club soccer.  It’s a business.   The sooner you realize this the better.  The only time you have any power is in the recruiting process.  Some will say the Transfer Portal also gives you power but the grass is rarely greener.
So it is over!  17 years of year around soccer.  I will never watch one of my kids play a competitive game again.  We have been so many places, met so many friends, and been through so much.  It has dominated my life for the better.  Well it’s time for me to find a hobby or two.  Damn I am so proud of my daughter but so sad it’s over. 

Simisoccerfan out!


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## Zoro

You never know when it is over.  Mine stopped D1 in 2012/2013.  She continues now.

School was her priority, using soccer to get into a school was my priority.  

At age 28 with her only ACL injury 2 years ago (turning around calling to friends wearing skis) and almost all healed she is at it again.   

After leaving college D1 Varsity as a GK, she went to the field to co-ed with 4-5 of the men's D1 champs on it and was one of 3 girls. We joked that that was the highest level team she had ever been on - as it was.
After college she really continued the co-ed leagues typically being one of 2-3 girls on the team. 
She played a couple seasons in Dallas. She became team captain in SFO which was more about organizing the post-game "meetings". 

I'm pretty happy something we really pushed her to do for a purpose, became something she loves.


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## Zoro

I used to be addicted to this site.  This was my dad brag outlet.  I can still do that if certain posters show up to bug me and will a bit in this post.

Competitive sports where the most important things my kids did.

My kids were talented in academics and sports (got them to Notre Dame and US Air Force Academy), but I think many that post here have similar kids. 

Their sports friends on average are just doing better. I tend to think the formula is more parents that care, but there is a difference vs the "just students".

I remember my 8th(ish) grader telling the teacher she couldn't study for a test because she had soccer practice (I heard from the teacher) and dad said that was more important.
Teacher about fell on the floor when I confirmed my daughter was 100% right and defended it on where athletes could go vs [just] really great students.  

An all "B" student (real) athlete will generally have more options than an all "A" student non-athlete.

Then, they might not even need the college.


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## crush

Zoro said:


> I used to be addicted to this site.  This was my dad brag outlet.  I can still do that if certain posters show up to bug me and will a bit in this post.
> 
> Competitive sports where the most important things my kids did.
> 
> My kids were talented in academics and sports (got them to Notre Dame and US Air Force Academy), but I think many that post here have similar kids.
> 
> Their sports friends on average are just doing better. I tend to think the formula is more parents that care, but there is a difference vs the "just students".
> 
> I remember my 8th(ish) grader telling the teacher she couldn't study for a test because she had soccer practice (I heard from the teacher) and dad said that was more important.
> Teacher about fell on the floor when I confirmed my daughter was 100% right and defended it on where athletes could go vs [just] really great students.
> 
> An all "B" student (real) athlete will generally have more options than an all "A" student non-athlete.
> 
> Then, they might not even need the college.


Experience is Truth! Amazing two kids you got and gr8t job on parenting


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## crush

Meyer family sues Stanford for wrongful death
					

The parents of Katie Meyer, a star soccer goalie who died by suicide last spring, filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Stanford on Wednesday.




					www.espn.com


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## Soccer43

The clash comes between the business of soccer for the coach/AD and the hopes and dreams of the athlete and the family.  As a coach you don’t have to be a dick to run the business side of the house.  There are plenty coaches that are ethical, compassionate and discriminating to run successful programs that win year after year.   They speak the truth to their players and don’t play harmful, manipulative games.   Then there are the narcissistic, abusive, arrogant, assholes that have the power to ruin an athletes experience and players really have very little power to make a difference in this and are just casualties


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## crush

Soccer43 said:


> The clash comes between the business of soccer for the coach/AD and the hopes and dreams of the athlete and the family.  As a coach you don’t have to be a dick to run the business side of the house.  There are plenty coaches that are ethical, compassionate and discriminating to run successful programs that win year after year.   They speak the truth to their players and don’t play harmful, manipulative games.   Then there are the narcissistic, abusive, arrogant, assholes that have the power to ruin an athletes experience and players really have very little power to make a difference in this and are just casualties


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## Yak

What are folks' experiences with D3 merit scholarships at strong academic schools? Do athletes have any advantage over purely academic applicants?


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## rainbow_unicorn

Zoro said:


> You never know when it is over.  Mine stopped D1 in 2012/2013.  She continues now.
> 
> School was her priority, using soccer to get into a school was my priority.
> 
> At age 28 with her only ACL injury 2 years ago (turning around calling to friends wearing skis) and almost all healed she is at it again.
> 
> After leaving college D1 Varsity as a GK, she went to the field to co-ed with 4-5 of the men's D1 champs on it and was one of 3 girls. We joked that that was the highest level team she had ever been on - as it was.
> After college she really continued the co-ed leagues typically being one of 2-3 girls on the team.
> She played a couple seasons in Dallas. She became team captain in SFO which was more about organizing the post-game "meetings".
> 
> I'm pretty happy something we really pushed her to do for a purpose, became something she loves.


Quality women players for adult co-ed leagues are always a hot commodity


----------



## Overtime

Yak said:


> What are folks' experiences with D3 merit scholarships at strong academic schools? Do athletes have any advantage over purely academic applicants?


My experience and that of others in my daughters class is if a D3 coach wants your player they will find them merit money.


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## TopesWin

Yak said:


> What are folks' experiences with D3 merit scholarships at strong academic schools? Do athletes have any advantage over purely academic applicants?


The college will say "no" (obviously) but the correct answer seems to be "yes" so don't take them at their word!


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## TopesWin

I'd appreciate your thoughts on what I hear about people getting D1 soccer scholarships.  What percentage of players in D1 are on full scholarships? Is there a difference between male and female?  The families of ulta-premier players I speak always have something like 20 to 30% schollys at most.  
What does it take for a male or female soccer star to get a full ride?


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## Zoro

TopesWin said:


> I'd appreciate your thoughts on what I hear about people getting D1 soccer scholarships.  What percentage of players in D1 are on full scholarships? Is there a difference between male and female?  The families of ulta-premier players I speak always have something like 20 to 30% schollys at most.
> What does it take for a male or female soccer star to get a full ride?


This information was correct 10 years ago.  I expect it is mostly correct now.  I just have not kept up because I'm not invested anymore. 

Few players at the top soccer schools are on "full".  The rosters have 20+ on them, so the math says the average is not even at 50%.  Other schools do not even fully fund the program to what NCAA allows and what they do might be less.  If there is no football team, chances are the program may not be fully funded.  Sure - Pepperdine is, as are others, but that is a guideline.  Title IX takes the money and... nevermind. 

The coach might find other money other ways. If your kid happens to be able to get need's aid, the coach is not going to spend scholarship money, even if they would otherwise.
If you (kid) have money, think of soccer as a way to get your kid into places that they could not otherwise go.
Many of the top ranked schools do not give merit money at all.  The Ivy's just don't (or didn't) give scholarships.  They let you go.

If you are looking at getting financial help, consider a lower demand soccer school. I worked with a guy that was the CalTech QB for football. Ever heard of CalTech football? Me neither till then.
But he got free school. He was also just smart enough to get in. And he got a CalTech degree in Chem if I remember correctly. I went to UC Irvine with smarter kids. They just were not QB material.

I suggest search "Common Data Set" and seeing the SAT (at least the ones that still use SAT) scores that actually get in.  If your kid is 25 percental and has soccer, leverage that.


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## MacDre

TopesWin said:


> I'd appreciate your thoughts on what I hear about people getting D1 soccer scholarships.  What percentage of players in D1 are on full scholarships? Is there a difference between male and female?  The families of ulta-premier players I speak always have something like 20 to 30% schollys at most.
> What does it take for a male or female soccer star to get a full ride?


I think things are changing as we speak for top players because of NIL collectives.  My kid hasn’t received a scholarship offer from any school but we are in talks with a major athletic apparel company.  The company hasn’t put any limitations on where my kid can play but it looks like AD’s/compliance officer’s at schools will not let her play if she is a brand ambassador for their brands competitor.


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## Zoro

MacDre said:


> I think things are changing as we speak for top players because of NIL collectives.  My kid hasn’t received a scholarship offer from any school but we are in talks with a major athletic apparel company.  The company hasn’t put any limitations on where my kid can play but it looks like AD’s/compliance officer’s at schools will not let her play if she is a brand ambassador for their brands competitor.


I had never looked at this angle for when my daughter was playing/looking.  My son has a "friend" who does very well with athletic apparel and looking good in them.   While that can do a lot on the $ part, I don't know how much it helps get them in to a difficult school to get into.  
Parents (and kids) need to figure out what their goal is. To suggest a few:
-Help pay for school
-Get into a school that is hard to get into
    Get into a school that is good for your major (if you know), shares values etc.
-Have fun with lots of play time
-Be in more winning teams while playing less
etc.  Of course, we want it all.  But I think it helps to decide priorities in advance.


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## outside!

MacDre said:


> I think things are changing as we speak for top players because of NIL collectives.  My kid hasn’t received a scholarship offer from any school but we are in talks with a major athletic apparel company.  The company hasn’t put any limitations on where my kid can play but it looks like AD’s/compliance officer’s at schools will not let her play if she is a brand ambassador for their brands competitor.


If there are any male athletes that are brand ambassadors playing at any NCAA school that would seem like a Title IX problem if they won't let others do it.


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## dk_b

I realized I’ve missed a lot on this thread over the last 6 months or so - discussion about making all sports headcount? Wow! That would be huge (and I agree w/folks who speculate that it would probably mean the end of a lot of sports b/c departments don’t have that type of cheddar to keep it going).  

Then I missed @Simisoccerfan calling it a wrap. I know I’d love to have a room w/some of the OGs like @Simisoccerfan and others who have contributed so much during their kids’ (mostly daughters’) journeys. My own child’s journey is featuring twists and turns - some public, some not - that we could not have anticipated.

Here are some general thoughts after 3 seasons of D1 soccer for my kid and my other kids in the process at the HS level: unless the kids talk, and even when they do, you don’t really know who is on full, half, 25%, etc. unless your own kid is on full, half, 25%, etc. You just know they have 14 (or 9) to play with and spread across a roster. If your kid is on full, she’s almost certainly going to contribute from jump. That’s actually a heavier burden for some kids - even heavier than the level of play (which, despite a kid who has played for a top-ranked team in club, even played in the YNT system, and even w/criticisms of college soccer, IS a big jump). But even if she’s not, she can work her ass off and become a contributor. The margin of error may be larger for $ players but the coaches’ jobs depend on winning so a player that makes her time on the pitch indispensable WILL play.

The NIL money is starting to pick up in the sport but it’s nothing like you read about for the big name hoop and football players. That will change and be broadly applicable, even if the levels are not huge, even as today there are probably not much more than 2 hands full of soccer players who are really supplementing w/NIL money (that is speculation based on public reports).

For those whose kids signed NLIs last month - congratulations. I wish that their journey is one of joy and love of the game and stimulating education and that all of the families can celebrate over this holiday season. I once said to my kid when she had a really great weekend in state cup - this is a long time ago - to make sure she took time to enjoy that moment. We had no idea where the game would take her but she was young so we knew there were some experiences ahead of her (even if she finished in HS) and I just never wanted her to ONLY look to the future. I still feel that way.  So be willing to step back and say, “what a great moment. Good job, daughter! Good job, son!”


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## crush

dk_b said:


> I realized I’ve missed a lot on this thread over the last 6 months or so - discussion about making all sports headcount? Wow! That would be huge (and I agree w/folks who speculate that it would probably mean the end of a lot of sports b/c departments don’t have that type of cheddar to keep it going).
> 
> Then I missed @Simisoccerfan calling it a wrap. I know I’d love to have a room w/some of the OGs like @Simisoccerfan and others who have contributed so much during their kids’ (mostly daughters’) journeys. My own child’s journey is featuring twists and turns - some public, some not - that we could not have anticipated.
> 
> Here are some general thoughts after 3 seasons of D1 soccer for my kid and my other kids in the process at the HS level: unless the kids talk, and even when they do, you don’t really know who is on full, half, 25%, etc. unless your own kid is on full, half, 25%, etc. You just know they have 14 (or 9) to play with and spread across a roster. If your kid is on full, she’s almost certainly going to contribute from jump. That’s actually a heavier burden for some kids - even heavier than the level of play (which, despite a kid who has played for a top-ranked team in club, even played in the YNT system, and even w/criticisms of college soccer, IS a big jump). But even if she’s not, she can work her ass off and become a contributor. The margin of error may be larger for $ players but the coaches’ jobs depend on winning so a player that makes her time on the pitch indispensable WILL play.
> 
> The NIL money is starting to pick up in the sport but it’s nothing like you read about for the big name hoop and football players. That will change and be broadly applicable, even if the levels are not huge, even as today there are probably not much more than 2 hands full of soccer players who are really supplementing w/NIL money (that is speculation based on public reports).
> 
> For those whose kids signed NLIs last month - congratulations. I wish that their journey is one of joy and love of the game and stimulating education and that all of the families can celebrate over this holiday season. I once said to my kid when she had a really great weekend in state cup - this is a long time ago - to make sure she took time to enjoy that moment. We had no idea where the game would take her but she was young so we knew there were some experiences ahead of her (even if she finished in HS) and I just never wanted her to ONLY look to the future. I still feel that way.  So be willing to step back and say, “what a great moment. Good job, daughter! Good job, son!”


Sage!


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## socalkdg

TopesWin said:


> I'd appreciate your thoughts on what I hear about people getting D1 soccer scholarships.  What percentage of players in D1 are on full scholarships? Is there a difference between male and female?  The families of ulta-premier players I speak always have something like 20 to 30% schollys at most.
> What does it take for a male or female soccer star to get a full ride?


Soccer scholarships are like fight club, parents and kids shouldn't talk about it.  Mine starts college in 2023.  Catch me in 2027 and I'll share.  ALso don't tell grandparents, they can't keep their mouth shut.    Don't discount the advantages athletes get, from moving in early, tutors, help getting classes, and getting into schools that maybe they wouldn't have for any number of reasons.

The comments about the number of scholarships for non football schools is correct.  Many don't have 14 scholarships.  Each school is also different in the way they make offers as well.   One State school in Utah, with 14 scholarships, gives tuition to every player (which is about 1/3 of the total cost at the school), then extra each year to out of state players as well as their top players on the team.   Some P5 schools try to get depth and players by just giving book money but acceptance into the school.   The extra year from the pandemic made recruiting harder.  Lastly the more money you can get from other places will help the school and your kid as well, so fill out that FAFSA.  

FYI when we got our daughters NLI electronically, it spells out all the terms.   I had no idea.


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## crush

socalkdg said:


> Soccer scholarships are like fight club, parents and kids shouldn't talk about it.  Mine starts college in 2023.  Catch me in 2027 and I'll share.  ALso don't tell grandparents, they can't keep their mouth shut.    Don't discount the advantages athletes get, from moving in early, tutors, help getting classes, and getting into schools that maybe they wouldn't have for any number of reasons.
> 
> The comments about the number of scholarships for non football schools is correct.  Many don't have 14 scholarships.  Each school is also different in the way they make offers as well.   One State school in Utah, with 14 scholarships, gives tuition to every player (which is about 1/3 of the total cost at the school), then extra each year to out of state players as well as their top players on the team.   Some P5 schools try to get depth and players by just giving book money but acceptance into the school.   The extra year from the pandemic made recruiting harder.  Lastly the more money you can get from other places will help the school and your kid as well, so fill out that FAFSA.
> 
> FYI when we got our daughters NLI electronically, it spells out all the terms.   I had no idea.


LOL, So true bro. I had a pal who told me his dd got in and no more details. Another one got books and admin to big time P5 and no play time. She/he was about school first.


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## Mystery Train

TopesWin said:


> I'd appreciate your thoughts on what I hear about people getting D1 soccer scholarships.  What percentage of players in D1 are on full scholarships? Is there a difference between male and female?  The families of ulta-premier players I speak always have something like 20 to 30% schollys at most.
> What does it take for a male or female soccer star to get a full ride?


My advice is don't even think about full rides for soccer.  So rare it might as well be a myth.  And if your kid is someone who could pull a magic full-ride rabbit out of the hat, chances are everyone already knows it because he/she is starting YNT regularly and dominating at that level.  I personally don't know anyone whose kid got a full ride.  Even the most successful college players whose parents frequented this board in the past 5 years didn't get full rides (as far as I was told).  For non-revenue generating sports, maybe it's different if the sport is an individual one like tennis/golf/diving, where one really dominant player can put a program on the map.  I wouldn't know.  But in soccer, as a team sport with 20-30 players on a roster, even programs like UCLA can't dole out multiple full rides without it costing them big time in terms of getting other top players to commit.


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## dk_b

Mystery Train said:


> My advice is don't even think about full rides for soccer.  So rare it might as well be a myth.  And if your kid is someone who could pull a magic full-ride rabbit out of the hat, chances are everyone already knows it because he/she is starting YNT regularly and dominating at that level.  I personally don't know anyone whose kid got a full ride.  Even the most successful college players whose parents frequented this board in the past 5 years didn't get full rides (as far as I was told).  For non-revenue generating sports, maybe it's different if the sport is an individual one like tennis/golf/diving, where one really dominant player can put a program on the map.  I wouldn't know.  But in soccer, as a team sport with 20-30 players on a roster, even programs like UCLA can't dole out multiple full rides without it costing them big time in terms of getting other top players to commit.


Rare, as you say, but I do know that it happens. But I would not want to do the math at the elite programs, especially those with big rosters and multiple YNT players.


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## crush

dk_b said:


> Rare, as you say, but I do know that it happens. But I would not want to do the math at the elite programs, especially those with big rosters and multiple YNT players.


Big clubs that "market" thousands of soccer scholarships for their players over the years should say, "1000s of partial soccer athletic scholarships" awarded?


----------



## Zoro

Mystery Train said:


> My advice is don't even think about full rides for soccer.  So rare it might as well be a myth.  And if your kid is someone who could pull a magic full-ride rabbit out of the hat, chances are everyone already knows it because he/she is starting YNT regularly and dominating at that level.  I personally don't know anyone whose kid got a full ride.  Even the most successful college players whose parents frequented this board in the past 5 years didn't get full rides (as far as I was told).  For non-revenue generating sports, maybe it's different if the sport is an individual one like tennis/golf/diving, where one really dominant player can put a program on the map.  I wouldn't know.  But in soccer, as a team sport with 20-30 players on a roster, even programs like UCLA can't dole out multiple full rides without it costing them big time in terms of getting other top players to commit.


I agree with your advice, but we have to also toss in the school to that.
Naming names would invariably insult someone, so just say that ...

There are schools that have a D1 men's FB team and are therefore, by Title IX needing to balance that spend.
They might be a lower ranking academic school, lower ranking soccer school and carry rosters of 15 rather than 25.
A team like that might have the money for a full ride.    

Then there are the military academies. "Free" and "full ride" take on different meaning, but for my other kid he got paid $10K/year to go to school - and has a job now. The athletes tend not to be near the top NCAA while the student body is about as fit as the varsity players. 
It is different, but certainly worth looking into.


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## lafalafa

dk_b said:


> Rare, as you say, but I do know that it happens. But I would not want to do the math at the elite programs, especially those with big rosters and multiple YNT players.


Between various Financial aids and scholarships our sons national ranked NCAA postseason college team has almost the entire starting 11 with tuition paid as scholarships.  Few freshman get fulls but does happen if you're a starter or projected to be one. 

Some of the other expenses like housing and meals have various other ways to be covered but that can be less full depending on potential or economic family standings. 

The roster players # 16-28 yeah they don't get much if any and each year/season there is a reevaluate.

One thing not most people talk about with college soccer is "development".  Winning is nice but you have to get better each season and that's the hardest part.

To get players awards like all conference, all region, all American you pretty much need to be on winning teams that make the postseason or play in certain conferences/areas.

Selecting a a college that competes regularly or has a good chance at qualifying for the postseason really is a thing you should discuss with your player.   The motivation for competition is very strong and your player will get a extra 30-45 days of potential training and playing depending on the post season run.  Without this the full season is short and it's not nearly as motivating for the players.

Good luck and choose wisely.


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## Zoro

This post might get me banned, but just reporting facts - see pic.

If you can leverage race or other, that will likely trump sports.  Sports should be leveraged for those without some minority card.  
At the time my daughter was looking for a school for architecture (she is a licensed architect now doing very well) one pretty good school was providing free school for that 5 year program based on skin color. She grew up knowing I was African American (white), so she thought maybe that would work. I had to explain how it works to her. 

We paid - a lot. She makes - a lot. The place matters, the connections matter. 

Actually, we paid for two kids tuition because she couldn't play that minority card. But soccer got her in.

Fact: $250K + for being African American.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn

Zoro said:


> This post might get me banned, but just reporting facts - see pic.
> 
> If you can leverage race or other, that will likely trump sports.  Sports should be leveraged for those without some minority card.
> At the time my daughter was looking for a school for architecture (she is a licensed architect now doing very well) one pretty good school was providing free school for that 5 year program based on skin color. She grew up knowing I was African American (white), so she thought maybe that would work. I had to explain how it works to her.
> 
> We paid - a lot. She makes - a lot. The place matters, the connections matter.
> 
> Actually, we paid for two kids tuition because she couldn't play that minority card. But soccer got her in.
> 
> Fact: $250K + for being African American.


----------



## Zoro

rainbow_unicorn said:


>


If you are American Indian and using soccer to get college, you are doing it wrong.  Try Dartmouth Home | Native American Program (dartmouth.edu) 
(you need to look up Dartmouth charter)
If you are none of that and get 800 math SAT (when SAT mattered) you stand less than 50% chance of getting in.


----------

