# GA (Girls Academy) League and DPL-  Anyone?



## timbuck (Nov 10, 2021)

I haven't heard much about GA or it's 2nd tier- DPL - at all this season.
For SoCal-  How has it been?  Pros? Cons?
Will these leagues continue next year?  Will teams be added/removed?


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## Soccerdude oc (Nov 10, 2021)

Honestly, if your player is serious and a quality player they need to find an ECNL club. In my opinion the GA only has tier two clubs in it and from what I hear it's going downhill fast, at least in CA. I believe Socal GA has maybe 5 teams total in it, but I may be mistaken. Lots of money and traveling to play mediocre teams at best. The majority of top players and top coaches have either left the GA or plan to. The GA is simular to ECNLR and it great if your player is not looking to play in college or seriously, but just want to have fun.  ECNL is where you ideally want to play, but there are limited amounts of clubs and even fewer spots available on ECNL teams.


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## RedCard (Nov 10, 2021)

Soccerdude oc said:


> Honestly, if your player is serious and a quality player they need to find an ECNL club. In my opinion the GA only has tier two clubs in it and from what I hear it's going downhill fast, at least in CA. I believe Socal GA has maybe 5 teams total in it, but I may be mistaken. Lots of money and traveling to play mediocre teams at best. The majority of top players and top coaches have either left the GA or plan to. The GA is simular to ECNLR and it great if your player is not looking to play in college or seriously, but just want to have fun.  ECNL is where you ideally want to play, but there are limited amounts of clubs and even fewer spots available on ECNL teams.


It also depends where you leave. In the OC and San Diego, there are plenty of options for ECNL teams. But here in LA County, there is not. Before this season, the only option was Breakers which is on the Westside. If you live East of the City of LA like the San Gabriel Valley, it takes well over an hour to drive to and from practice each way which was either at the VA fields off the 405/Wilshire or at Palisades High School which is basically next to the Pacific Ocean. Some people can do that and some can't. With this season, Beach was added which is in LA County also, but again, traffic sucks big time here. Same thing if you drive East to Legends, Arsenal, Strikers, etc. So sometimes the only option is a GA or a good Discovery/NPL team.


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## Gosocal (Nov 10, 2021)

RedCard said:


> It also depends where you leave. In the OC and San Diego, there are plenty of options for ECNL teams. But here in LA County, there is not. Before this season, the only option was Breakers which is on the Westside. If you live East of the City of LA like the San Gabriel Valley, it takes well over an hour to drive to and from practice each way which was either at the VA fields off the 405/Wilshire or at Palisades High School which is basically next to the Pacific Ocean. Some people can do that and some can't. With this season, Beach was added which is in LA County also, but again, traffic sucks big time here. Same thing if you drive East to Legends, Arsenal, Strikers, etc. So sometimes the only option is a GA or a good Discovery/NPL team.


This is spot on. If you live in LA metro/Pasadena/San Gabriel Valley, there isn’t any reasonable distanced ECNL clubs so GA is only the real option if you want a national league experience for college exposure while balancing academic demands. Agree that GA is not as competitive in SoCal but the national showcases are more competitive and college coach participation is robust. Unfortunately, the ideal wealth and household demographic combo doesn't justify ECNL to add a club in this area. Outside of La Canada or Pasadena, the wealth demographics are not as strong as the Westside or Orange County. City of LA kids are likely in private school so less discretionary income unlike OC which have great public schools and hence higher discretionary income. Any national league is EXPENSIVE.  Ecnl is the ideal pathway now but not the only pathway to play in college, it just takes a little more leg work to get there if in GA.


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## Larzby (Nov 10, 2021)

DPL has been great this season!  The travel is fine, the venues are great and the competition is good.  Half our games are at home, and the furthest we have to go is 4 games in San Diego.  Admittedly, there are a few teams who are not at a high enough level, but the other 7 teams have great quality games.  GA/DPL are not going away any time soon, and in fact, they will be expanding next year.  I guess we will find out how GA/DPL teams will do against ECNL/RL teams when tourneys start, but I am optimistic about how my daughter's team will fare against many of them.  Having said that, it does appear that the top ECNL teams are still on a different level, but it wouldn't surprise me if we are nipping at their heels by next year this time.


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## Soccerdude oc (Nov 11, 2021)

Soccerdude oc said:


> Honestly, if your player is serious and a quality player they need to find an ECNL club. In my opinion the GA only has tier two clubs in it and from what I hear it's going downhill fast, at least in CA. I believe Socal GA has maybe 5 teams total in it, but I may be mistaken. Lots of money and traveling to play mediocre teams at best. The majority of top players and top coaches have either left the GA or plan to. The GA is simular to ECNLR and it great if your player is not looking to play in college or seriously, but just want to have fun.  ECNL is where you ideally want to play, but there are limited amounts of clubs and even fewer spots available on ECNL teams.


That's true, there is not a lot of ECNL teams in LA. OC has a tone Blues, Slammers, Legends, Eagles (who am I missing?). San Diego has 3 Sharks, Rebels, Surf- all ECNL clubs will see a huge spike this year. Last year everyone was spinning from the covid shutdown and I think people wanted to give GA a chance but more high quality teams and players and coaches are leaving. I watched LA Surf play recently and they don't look like the team (not very strong). I agree GA will be around for a long time since ECNL is limited, but I do think those teams will be typical flight 2 in OC/SD/ Norcal. I think ECNL should be everyone's first choice, but if your child can make a ECNL team since it is limited or if it is impractical distance wise then I guess GA would be the next option.  It just seems like GA clubs are all clawing to get into ECNL. Last year the top GA teams left (Royals, Beach, Legends, rumor has it Top Hat will be the next one out). It'll be intresting to see how it all plays out. I know friends in GA clubs are not happy.


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## ToonArmy (Nov 11, 2021)

GA needs to add in my opinion. From what I understand at least one so cal GA club has been traveling to Vegas and Utah to play non SW GA clubs that aren't on the league schedule or standings. Are they traveling out of state for friendlies in the middle of fall league? Because there aren't enough GA teams in SW?


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## crush (Nov 11, 2021)

ToonArmy said:


> GA needs to add in my opinion. From what I understand at least one so cal GA club has been traveling to Vegas and Utah to play non SW GA clubs that aren't on the league schedule or standings. Are they traveling out of state for friendlies in the middle of fall league? Because there aren't enough GA teams in SW?


I have been doing some youth soccer research the last four years bro.  Let's meet up for that drink and I'll share with you my two cents.  France, Germany and Spain do it way differently then what we do in SoCal and around the states.  Let's take France.  They might have four divisions at the Academy stage and or pro.  No one can buy their way to Top League.  Impossible.  If you want to get into the youth soccer biz in France or Spain, you start at Tier 4.  In order to move up, you have to win, period.  You can't "pay to play" and then "pay to move up" or "pay to play politics" and find a way to be #1 without putting in the true hard work.


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## gkrent (Nov 11, 2021)

crush said:


> I have been doing some youth soccer research the last four years bro.  Let's meet up for that drink and I'll share with you my two cents.  France, Germany and Spain do it way differently then what we do in SoCal and around the states.  Let's take France.  They might have four divisions at the Academy stage and or pro.  No one can buy their way to Top League.  Impossible.  If you want to get into the youth soccer biz in France or Spain, you start at Tier 4.  In order to move up, you have to win, period.  You can't "pay to play" and then "pay to move up" or "pay to play politics" and find a way to be #1 without putting in the true hard work.


It used to be that way here in SoCal.  Long Live Coast Soccer League!!!!


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## timbuck (Nov 11, 2021)

Imagine if those GA and DPL teams moved back to a local league (Coast or SoCal)- It might not be ECNL level-  but between GA, DPL and Discovery-  I bet there are enough players in SoCal to round out 10-15 teams per age group that would be VERY competitive. And could play every game in SoCal.
They'd almost certainly be as/more competitive than RL.


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## paytoplay (Nov 11, 2021)

ToonArmy said:


> GA needs to add in my opinion. From what I understand at least one so cal GA club has been traveling to Vegas and Utah to play non SW GA clubs that aren't on the league schedule or standings. Are they traveling out of state for friendlies in the middle of fall league? Because there aren't enough GA teams in SW?


These out of state games are the GA national league games being played.
So a couple trips to nearby SW states and mostly home games and away games to neighboring clubs on good fields vs lesser competition to ecnl.


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## crush (Nov 11, 2021)

gkrent said:


> It used to be that way here is SoCal.  Long Live Coast Soccer League!!!!


I heard some cool battle stories from a Sage dad about the Coast league.  He said never did they have to travel outside Cali to play the best because the best was in SoCal.  He said they ((the other the top teams around the country)) came to Socal to try their luck against da best and enjoy our weather and coolness   I feel this kind of soccer the last 6 years has set us back years.  It's the dads who bought their way in the game.  It's obvious.  Pay to play soccer is crazy because soccer should be free in one way.  The best in Spain for example will make a big decision when 14.  They either go soccer/pro or find something else to do and major in that and just play club at the Universities for fun, not to pay to play.  Our school system is not good for those who want to just play some soccer and cruise around the world.  Long Live Coast!!!


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 11, 2021)




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## paytoplay (Nov 11, 2021)

crush said:


> I heard some cool battle stories from a Sage dad about the Coast league.  He said never did they have to travel outside Cali to play the best because the best was in SoCal.  He said they ((the other the top teams around the country)) came to Socal to try their luck against da best and enjoy our weather and coolness   I feel this kind of soccer the last 6 years has set us back years.  It's the dads who bought their way in the game.  It's obvious.  Pay to play soccer is crazy because soccer should be free in one way.  The best in Spain for example will make a big decision when 14.  They either go soccer/pro or find something else to do and major in that and just play club at the Universities for fun, not to pay to play.  Our school system is not good for those who want to just play some soccer and cruise around the world.  Long Live Coast!!!


Crush, I like your comment. An evening walking around OCGP and you can see the paytoplay in real time. Every club has “elite” teams practicing out there with very curious roster selections. No doubt gifted players who merit those coveted spots, and also some who were given acces$. And much better players languishing in lesser places. Forget about a marketplace of competing leagues. That is just a fog obscuring the scam. Imagine one league, ECNL. Redesign the pyramid. Let ECNL be the top and ECRL IV can be on the bottom.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Nov 11, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Imagine if those GA and DPL teams moved back to a local league (Coast or SoCal)- It might not be ECNL level-  but between GA, DPL and Discovery-  I bet there are enough players in SoCal to round out 10-15 teams per age group that would be VERY competitive. And could play every game in SoCal.
> They'd almost certainly be as/more competitive than RL.


From the girls side, bring Down ECRL teams as well to Discovery.  Make Discovery a true program and keep ECNL as the only elite program.    Let's stop with these  academy labels. Discovery should be competitive enough for 95% of all payers.  Leave those truly elite players at ECNL.


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## timbuck (Nov 11, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> From the girls side, bring Down ECRL teams as well to Discovery.  Make Discovery a true program and keep ECNL as the only elite program.    Let's stop with these  academy labels. Discovery should be competitive enough for 95% of all payers.  Leave those truly elite players at ECNL.


Maybe if we all keep saying this-  Somebody will listen, someday.  Let the rest of the country fumble around with made-up "elite" leagues.  SoCal should have ECNL and a local league.


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## supercell (Nov 11, 2021)

Pay to play is here to stay I'm afraid. It's part of the american culture. Someone has to pay for fields and coaches. It's the corruption and escalation of travel that have spoiled things. I don't think you can blame the dads for it. Its bigger than that. Dads are just looking out for their number 1's, their DS's and DD's. I would expect no less.


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## gkrent (Nov 11, 2021)

crush said:


> I heard some cool battle stories from a Sage dad about the Coast league.  He said never did they have to travel outside Cali to play the best because the best was in SoCal.  He said they ((the other the top teams around the country)) came to Socal to try their luck against da best and enjoy our weather and coolness   I feel this kind of soccer the last 6 years has set us back years.  It's the dads who bought their way in the game.  It's obvious.  Pay to play soccer is crazy because soccer should be free in one way.  The best in Spain for example will make a big decision when 14.  They either go soccer/pro or find something else to do and major in that and just play club at the Universities for fun, not to pay to play.  Our school system is not good for those who want to just play some soccer and cruise around the world.  Long Live Coast!!!


One could argue that some great talent slips through the cracks with this fragmented system due to politics, ability to pay or simply ignorance of all the different leagues and teams.  

Remember when Premier was actually Premier?  The promotion and relegation system works.  If you have players not yet ready for this, then put them in a "development league".


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## SoccerFan4Life (Nov 11, 2021)

supercell said:


> Pay to play is here to stay I'm afraid. It's part of the american culture. Someone has to pay for fields and coaches. It's the corruption and escalation of travel that have spoiled things. I don't think you can blame the dads for it. Its bigger than that. Dads are just looking out for their number 1's, their DS's and DD's. I would expect no less.


In my opinion it should look like this.   

1. ECNL should be for those players looking to play profesional level soccer or top D1 schools, youth USA national teams 

2. discovery should be: D1 (mid to low), D2, private schools.  

3. Rest of flights is just for fun.


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## outside! (Nov 11, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> In my opinion it should look like this.
> 
> 1. ECNL should be for those players looking to play profesional level soccer or top D1 schools, youth USA national teams
> 
> ...


In my opinion SoCal should have one league with divisions (name them whatever), like Coast used to be. Ditch ECNL. Let the rest of the country come to SoCal if they want to play against our top teams. I promise the college coaches would come.


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## timbuck (Nov 11, 2021)

outside! said:


> In my opinion SoCal should have one league with divisions (name them whatever), like Coast used to be. Ditch ECNL. Let the rest of the country come to SoCal if they want to play against our top teams. I promise the college coaches would come.


Most of "us" know this.  Why can't the club directors recognize this and put their foot down? It just takes 2 or 3 of them to say "This is dumb. We can play locally for league games and travel for tournaments if we need college exposure outside of the big tournaments at Silverlakes and Del Mar"

GAL Members in SoCal  https://girlsacademyleague.com/members/ :

Albion San Diego
City SC
LA Surf
Murrieta Soccer Academy
SDSC-Surf
West Coast

DPL Members in SoCal.  https://dpleague.org/members/

Albion San Diego
City SC
LA Surf
West Coast
San Diego Force
San Diego Soccer Club
Liverpool FC SoCal
Murrieta Soccer Academy
Santa Barbara Soccer Club
Fram Soccer Club
Santa Monica Surf


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## what-happened (Nov 11, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> In my opinion it should look like this.
> 
> 1. ECNL should be for those players looking to play profesional level soccer or top D1 schools, youth USA national teams
> 
> ...


Too complex for time/resource constrained college programs.  So if you want to go to a private school (Santa Clara, USC, etc) you should play in a percieved lower tiered league?

Since we are reaching for the stars, level the playing field, minimize pay to play.  Design a SOCAL league that is talent based, not demographic based.

Wishful thinking I know but would be nice.


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## lafalafa (Nov 11, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> In my opinion it should look like this.
> 
> 1. ECNL should be for those players looking to play profesional level soccer or top D1 schools, youth USA national teams
> 
> ...


Nah there are/where players yesterday to D1 from a lot more places vs just ECNL including DPL. 

A league doesn't and never should define what potential any player may have to continue playing beyond the youth circuits.

Leagues are or should be based on geography and/or flighted around play level.    High school and college does this so can club sports if there is a will.


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## soccerdad.101 (Nov 12, 2021)

Blah blah blah ... my toy is better than your toy ... who cares! 

For a matter of fact not 1 person can turn around and say this league is better than that league (on a whole with all the factors - level of play, organisation, showcases etc all the things that make a league) because no one can possibly be at enough games in ECNL and GA to compare or experience both with enough depth.
The funny thing is there is another thread calling out poor ECNL teams and clubs... so which is it??

Bottom line is exposure! Check out the ECNL and GA college coaches lists for showcases, they are the same and the same quantity bar a tiny variation! so does it matter which league you play in? NO! Your kid whether in ECNL or GA is in the best spot to be seen, that is fact. 
ECRL doesn't have the level of attention locally or nationally at showcases yet and SoCal/Discovery league you doesn't compare to ECNL or GA either.

Just play for the closest GA or ECNL team in your area, chose the club and coach that will develop you the best also and move on.

For the record my opinion is that if you take ECNL & GA in each age group, the top 5-6 teams/clubs per age group are playing in ECNL, below this is much of the same, all the other clubs position 7 to 23 (total ECNL and GA clubs) would be mixed reasonably evenly.


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## Code (Nov 12, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Maybe if we all keep saying this-  Somebody will listen, someday.  Let the rest of the country fumble around with made-up "elite" leagues.  SoCal should have ECNL and a local league.


Absolutely!  Every player in Socal would benefit from this.


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 13, 2021)

It's interesting (and normal considering the forum) that most of the comments on this thread seem to come from parents of players. At the highest level + logically it makes sense for the best players to play against the best players that are also closest to them.

What parents don't see is that if their favorite/local club isnt involved in XYZ super league 99% of the time it's because of current and/or previous club leadership.

Often leadership positions in clubs pay 250k+. As long as the club is fielding enough teams to cover everyone's salary why rock the boat.

This is why it's important to press for change by changing clubs. Its truly the only way to make people in leadership positions nervous.


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## Sike (Nov 14, 2021)

soccerdad.101 said:


> Blah blah blah ... my toy is better than your toy ... who cares!
> 
> For a matter of fact not 1 person can turn around and say this league is better than that league (on a whole with all the factors - level of play, organisation, showcases etc all the things that make a league) because no one can possibly be at enough games in ECNL and GA to compare or experience both with enough depth.
> The funny thing is there is another thread calling out poor ECNL teams and clubs... so which is it??
> ...


I will be interested to see if GA can keep the college coach attendance at this level next year. I think there were enough holdover players on GA teams last year and maybe even this year to keep college coaches attention.  We will see if that is still true next season.

For what it's worth...
Our dd played on a top GA team last year (made it to the national championship weekend) and moved to ECNL this year.  We know of several girls at several age groups who also made the same move as our daughter.  Having watched GA showcases, playoffs and the championship last year, it is clear to us that the level of play at the ECNL showcase the last three days is well above the level of play in GA last year.  We liked the GA last year, thought the national events were run extremely well and college coach attendance was amazing.  There are still some good coaches and players in GA.  If the choice for our dd was GA or ECRL, we would likely have stuck with GA.


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 14, 2021)

The ECRL vs GA argument is interesting.

GA will definately role out the red carpet for "B" level players with $$$. This might be the perfect place for a kid that's on their way up and + just needs some attention.

ECNL recently changed it so ECNL rostered players can play ECRL and vice versa. The only rule is that both ECNL and ECRL can only play one game per day. What this means is that ECNL rostered players can play in ECNL games. 

The downside of ECRL is most clubs dont put much resources behind those type of teams. Personally I think this will change as clubs start to figure out that both ECNL/RL is just a big pool of players. Might as well throw as many players in the pool to see who sinks and/or swims.


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## Sike (Nov 14, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> The ECRL vs GA argument is interesting.
> 
> GA will definately role out the red carpet for "B" level players with $$$. This might be the perfect place for a kid that's on their way up and + just needs some attention.
> 
> ...


I am sure some ecrl players get some ecnl time, but we haven't seen that happen too much.  At one club we know well, they even told the families up front that there would be zero opportunities for their ecrl players to get ecnl time. At the showcase this weekend, we saw plenty of 2007 ecnl players for multiple clubs getting time on the 2006 ecnl team instead of 2006 ecrl players getting that opportunity.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Nov 14, 2021)

Sike said:


> I am sure some ecrl players get some ecnl time, but we haven't seen that happen too much.  At one club we know well, they even told the families up front that there would be zero opportunities for their ecrl players to get ecnl time. At the showcase this weekend, we saw plenty of 2007 ecnl players for multiple clubs getting time on the 2006 ecnl team instead of 2006 ecrl players getting that opportunity.


Thank you for sharing.  I’ve been saying it for a few years. Ecrl is a scam that makes money for the clubs and that’s it.  There’s no benefit outside to say that your player belongs to a four letter program. 
Parents need to see this and move their players to GAL to get a chance to be on a college showcase or go down to fligjht 1.


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## COSMOS (Nov 14, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> The ECRL vs GA argument is interesting.
> 
> GA will definately role out the red carpet for "B" level players with $$$. This might be the perfect place for a kid that's on their way up and + just needs some attention.
> 
> ...


If you're kid is a bottom 1/3rd ECNL player, ECRL is their opportunity to get PT (at the expense of the ECRL kids literally).  That's been the trend lately.  

No substitute for match play/fitness.  That's how players develop.


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## COSMOS (Nov 14, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> It's interesting (and normal considering the forum) that most of the comments on this thread seem to come from parents of players. At the highest level + logically it makes sense for the best players to play against the best players that are also closest to them.
> 
> What parents don't see is that if their favorite/local club isnt involved in XYZ super league 99% of the time it's because of current and/or previous club leadership.
> 
> ...


This is insightful and spot on.  There is huge disparity in goal differential in both ECNL and GA between the top and the bottom across the regions this year.  I'd say an argument that best in fact is not playing the best, gotta be some personality issues at play.   

Rough (and very public) math here...and assuming most travel costs are captured...I'd say these leagues value having an out of state team/play in whichever conference at ~$3m/team/season (ECNL prices, less for GA with less teams).

Disagree with the changing clubs piece.  I think it's hugely disruptive to kids and lessens the true benefits of playing team sports.


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 15, 2021)

COSMOS said:


> If you're kid is a bottom 1/3rd ECNL player, ECRL is their opportunity to get PT (at the expense of the ECRL kids literally).  That's been the trend lately.
> 
> No substitute for match play/fitness.  That's how players develop.


I agree that bubble ECNL players are playing ECRL so they can get more minutes. This is what I'm seeing at different clubs as well. It's fairly obvious when most of the ECNL team is ok and 2 maybe 3 are WAY better than all the rest.

Personally I don't believe this is an issue. ECNL rules only allow players to do 1 game per day. There's only 2 days per weekend. ECNL players can only play in certain ECRL games. This is a huge benefit for ECRL players because they get exposed to a higher level of play but from only 1 or 2 players at a time. (not an entire team)


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## justneededaname (Nov 15, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> What parents don't see is that if their favorite/local club isnt involved in XYZ super league 99% of the time it's because of current and/or previous club leadership.


This implies that ECNL will take in any club that has a demonstrated history of good leadership.  You'll have to forgive me if I don't believe this is true. I expect there are some very well run clubs that would love to get into ECNL, have applied, and have been rejected for some other reason.
I think it works more like this.

Non-ECNL Club - "We have been around for years have solid financials and good coaches and would love to be in ECNL"
ECNL Clubs - "Your teams at the ENCL age groups are just not performing at a high enough level to be considered"
Non-ECNL Club - "That is because our best players all leave to join your ECNL clubs."
ECNL Clubs - "Right. Why would be give that up?"
Non-ECNL Club - "A$$holes"
ECNL Clubs - "We can't possibly let that club in, look their leadership has a potty mouth"


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 15, 2021)

justneededaname said:


> This implies that ECNL will take in any club that has a demonstrated history of good leadership.  You'll have to forgive me if I don't believe this is true. I expect there are some very well run clubs that would love to get into ECNL, have applied, and have been rejected for some other reason.
> I think it works more like this.
> 
> Non-ECNL Club - "We have been around for years have solid financials and good coaches and would love to be in ECNL"
> ...


This is when club Board of Directors need to step in and replace current leadership with those that have ECNL contacts + can get you into the league. 

When things like this occur ECNL knows that clubs are serious.


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## outside! (Nov 15, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> This is when club Board of Directors need to step in and replace current leadership with those that have ECNL contacts + can get you into the league.
> 
> When things like this occur ECNL knows that clubs are serious.


I would be surprised if BOD's actually have that power at many clubs.


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## justneededaname (Nov 15, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> This is when club Board of Directors need to step in and replace current leadership with those that have ECNL contacts + can get you into the league.
> 
> When things like this occur ECNL knows that clubs are serious.


So it is not about whether you can actually run a soccer club, it is whether you are one of the good ole boys. Got it.


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## timbuck (Nov 15, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> The ECRL vs GA argument is interesting.
> 
> GA will definately role out the red carpet for "B" level players with $$$. This might be the perfect place for a kid that's on their way up and + just needs some attention.
> 
> ...


My experience has been that ECRL (and some ECNL) players are more likely to "play down" on to a teams SoCalLeague roster than they are to play "up" to the ECNL roster.


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 16, 2021)

timbuck said:


> My experience has been that ECRL (and some ECNL) players are more likely to "play down" on to a teams SoCalLeague roster than they are to play "up" to the ECNL roster.


I agree that this is happening but its going both ways. ECNL/RL players want to play in 2 games per day + playing in different leagues allows this. Socal players are being asked to play in ECNL/RL games because they dont have to follow the 1 game per day rule and can be used to fill our a roster on game day. 

Of course this all depends on the Club + number of players they have. If rosters are completely full you wont see players moving around that much. (Outside of ECNL ringers playing on Socal teams for "fun")


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## LouSag (Nov 16, 2021)

Larzby said:


> DPL has been great this season!  The travel is fine, the venues are great and the competition is good.  Half our games are at home, and the furthest we have to go is 4 games in San Diego.  Admittedly, there are a few teams who are not at a high enough level, but the other 7 teams have great quality games.  GA/DPL are not going away any time soon, and in fact, they will be expanding next year.  I guess we will find out how GA/DPL teams will do against ECNL/RL teams when tourneys start, but I am optimistic about how my daughter's team will fare against many of them.  Having said that, it does appear that the top ECNL teams are still on a different level, but it wouldn't surprise me if we are nipping at their heels by next year this time.


DPL teams “nipping” at the heels of ECNL teams this time next year?  That’s funny.  “Top” ECNL teams…please.
DPL teams are rarely even given the opportunity to play ECNL teams.  If you’re daughter is at an ECNL club that schedules DPL teams, run away fast.  If you play DPL, you may see an ECRL team or two playing in National Cup, but that’s about it.  I’m not trying to be mean, but DPL teams are not on the same, or nearly the same level as ECNL clubs, DMCV Sharks being the outlier (but MW will change that).


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## oh canada (Nov 16, 2021)

Sike said:


> At the showcase this weekend, we saw plenty of 2007 ecnl players for multiple clubs getting time on the 2006 ecnl team instead of 2006 ecrl players getting that opportunity.


The club and team doing this should be ashamed. Their entire ecrl team should leave at once and go somewhere else. Or, just play high school this winter and not return till tryouts somewhere else. No college scout is interested in a 2007 player anywhere right now. Since the entire purpose of last weekend was college looks, playing 2007s over available 2006s is disrespectful and completely anti-player. Unless no 2006 player on that ecrl squad wants to play college soccer. On every team last weekend, every player on the roster should have gotten PT.  My kid's 2005 team played everyone in every game, and likely didn't perform as well because of it. But that's completely okay and the way it should be. W/L don't matter to the scouts.


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## outside! (Nov 16, 2021)

LouSag said:


> DPL teams are rarely even given the opportunity to play ECNL teams.


Of course that is also by design to make sure no DPL team ever gives an ECNL team a good game.


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## futboldad1 (Nov 16, 2021)

outside! said:


> Of course that is also by design to make sure no DPL team ever gives an ECNL team a good game.


A few DPL teams played ECNL teams at Silverlakes Thaksgiving before Covid and the results were very ugly for the DPL teams....if they are not scheduled it's because it is not a close matchup meaning parents are not going to be happy on either sideline....for Youngers there is the infamous Fram DPL thread too....

@LouSag has it totally correct


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## dad4 (Nov 16, 2021)

oh canada said:


> The club and team doing this should be ashamed. Their entire ecrl team should leave at once and go somewhere else. Or, just play high school this winter and not return till tryouts somewhere else. No college scout is interested in a 2007 player anywhere right now. Since the entire purpose of last weekend was college looks, playing 2007s over available 2006s is disrespectful and completely anti-player. Unless no 2006 player on that ecrl squad wants to play college soccer. On every team last weekend, every player on the roster should have gotten PT.  My kid's 2005 team played everyone in every game, and likely didn't perform as well because of it. But that's completely okay and the way it should be. W/L don't matter to the scouts.


Mostly true.

A few kids skip grades.  A 2007 kid could be a sophomore or junior.  Hard to do that and stay ECNL, but I'm sure some kids manage it.


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## Sike (Nov 16, 2021)

oh canada said:


> The club and team doing this should be ashamed. Their entire ecrl team should leave at once and go somewhere else. Or, just play high school this winter and not return till tryouts somewhere else. No college scout is interested in a 2007 player anywhere right now. Since the entire purpose of last weekend was college looks, playing 2007s over available 2006s is disrespectful and completely anti-player. Unless no 2006 player on that ecrl squad wants to play college soccer. On every team last weekend, every player on the roster should have gotten PT.  My kid's 2005 team played everyone in every game, and likely didn't perform as well because of it. But that's completely okay and the way it should be. W/L don't matter to the scouts.


Well, if the clubs promised ecrl players opportunities to play ecnl, then I suppose you're right.  However, unless this was explicitly promised as part of signing up for ecrl, then I see no issue in what the teams did last weekend.  If people blindly signed up for ecrl thinking that would give them ecnl opportunities, then they were being naive.  The 07s we saw playing were very good players and likely better than any of the the clubs 06 ecrl players.  And, in at least one instance, a college coach asked a club coach about the 07 player, so it wasn't completely "anti-player".


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## watfly (Nov 16, 2021)

The "your kid will be on the 2nd team but will have the opportunity to play on the 1st and maybe move up permanently" is one of the biggest and most told lies in youth soccer.  If as a parent you haven't figured that out by the time your kid is ECNL/MLS Next/GA age then you just can't blame the club for not living up to its promises.  You have to shoulder some of that responsibility.


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## Larzby (Nov 16, 2021)

outside! said:


> Of course that is also by design to make sure no DPL team ever gives an ECNL team a good game.


It's very easy to find games on YSR where DPL teams beat ECNL teams!  Unless you're one of those ECNL dads desperate to convince yourself you're not wasting your money, I guess.


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## oh canada (Nov 17, 2021)

dad4 said:


> A few kids skip grades. A 2007 kid could be a sophomore or junior. Hard to do that and stay ECNL, but I'm sure some kids manage it.


Fair point. Agree with you if the 2007s were 2024 grads. I didn't get that impression from the post though.



Sike said:


> The 07s we saw playing were very good players and likely better than any of the the clubs 06 ecrl players


I'm sure they were. And I'm sure that's why the coaches asked them to play up (if they were playing up)...to win. But a 2007/2025 grad has an entire year more of getting college scout looks and opportunities than a 2006/2024 grad. And, she's 1.5 years out from being able to have any sort of conversation with a coach. 

A club's goal should be to get as many of their players (customers) placed into the next level, regardless of their ability level. An opportunity is an opportunity, maybe it's not a P5 D1 for the ecrl player, but maybe it's a D2 small school that is willing to give them some money. Not giving the ecrl player the shot prevents her from the chance. Also, bringing up a 2025 takes showcase minutes away from other 2024 ecnl players already on the team (unless they had zero or too few subs). I'm not saying ecrl players should be brought up if the ecnl showcase roster is already full or close to full. But, if players are needed, the right thing to do is give one or a couple of your similarly aged ecrl players a chance to prove themselves, even if it costs your team a goal(s). But, as we know, some clubs do not operate in the best interests of their players and families. #WsOnly


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## LouSag (Nov 17, 2021)

Larzby said:


> It's very easy to find games on YSR where DPL teams beat ECNL teams!  Unless you're one of those ECNL dads desperate to convince yourself you're not wasting your money, I guess.


And DPL teams are getting great exposure to college coaches too!  
Of course some DPL teams beat ECNL teams…there are some poor ECNL teams.  There are no absolutes.  I’ve seen Hoosiers…it’s a great story.  Go DPL!!!!


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## watfly (Nov 17, 2021)

Let me clear up what appears to be a fairly common misconception, when it comes to "next man up" for games and such, that next girl or boy up is typically going to come from the younger 1st team and not the same age 2nd team at the ECNL/GA/MLS Next level.  If you think about the Clubs' focus on winning that makes sense, why would you bring up an end of bench player when you could bring up a player near the top of your lineup.

Now I get that a Showcase is different but still the Club's priority is going to be to their ECNL players (no offense but it is an ECNL showcase and not an ECRL showcase).  Would it have been a nice gesture to bring up an ECRL player? Absolutely, 100%, but there was no obligation to do so unless players were told otherwise.  Does ECRL not have showcases they can participate in?  I thought they did.  If your looking for equity you're going to be sorely disappointed in youth soccer.

Additionally, its not uncommon for showcases to include U15/2007 teams (MLS Next does) as many of these kids are in HS (I have an 07 still in 8th) and they will draw interest from coaches.

Dose of reality here, ECRL/DPL/EA are typically not stepping stones to ECNL/GA/MLS Next teams.  The former is more marketing of a carrot on stick than anything else to separate you from your $$$.

Now should it be different, yeah probably, but that's the reality.  We can blame clubs all we want and they deserve most of it.  But again, by the time your kid reaches this age group you should know better.  We all have to be more realistic about our kids abilities (particularly in relation to other players in the program) and consider that in light of what we are promised by the club.


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## dad4 (Nov 17, 2021)

watfly said:


> Let me clear up what appears to be a fairly common misconception, when it comes to "next man up" for games and such, that next girl or boy up is typically going to come from the younger 1st team and not the same age 2nd team at the ECNL/GA/MLS Next level.  If you think about the Clubs' focus on winning that makes sense, why would you bring up an end of bench player when you could bring up a player near the top of your lineup.
> 
> Now I get that a Showcase is different but still the Club's priority is going to be to their ECNL players (no offense but it is an ECNL showcase and not an ECRL showcase).  Would it have been a nice gesture to bring up an ECRL player? Absolutely, 100%, but there was no obligation to do so unless players were told otherwise.  Does ECRL not have showcases they can participate in?  I thought they did.  If your looking for equity you're going to be sorely disappointed in youth soccer.
> 
> ...


If you are choosing an ECRL team, and the club uses the ECNL team as bait, then it’s perfectly reasonable to ask how many ECRL players were rostered for the most recent ECNL showcase.

Similarly, if you are looking for a younger ECNL team, and the club uses playing up as bait, then it is reasonable to ask how many ECNL players were allowed to play up at the last showcase.

That will give you an idea what the odds really are.  For most clubs, the odds are very low.  Bait is just bait, and you’re better off ignoring it.


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## foreveryoung (Nov 17, 2021)

watfly said:


> f your looking for equity you're going to be sorely disappointed in youth soccer.


Interestingly I do a lot of consumer/generational trend analysis for work and if you look at the next generation of parents (Gen Y) who will take over from Gen X as the majority stakeholders in youth sports over the next 10 years, they care a lot about equity and are _significantly_ less competitive as a group than Gen X.  They are also pretty sour about their college experience.  It will be interesting to see how they impact the current youth sports system with their consumer choices.  My guess would be that the pay to play youth competitive sports industry will shrink or stay stagnant and there will be a revitalization of community and school sports.


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## watfly (Nov 17, 2021)

foreveryoung said:


> Interestingly I do a lot of consumer/generational trend analysis for work and if you look at the next generation of parents (Gen Y) who will take over from Gen X as the majority stakeholders in youth sports over the next 10 years, they care a lot about equity and are _significantly_ less competitive as a group than Gen X.  They are also pretty sour about their college experience.  It will be interesting to see how they impact the current youth sports system with their consumer choices.  My guess would be that the pay to play youth competitive sports industry will shrink or stay stagnant and there will be a revitalization of community and school sports.


That's interesting.  If it creates more balance I'm all for it, particularly if it revitalizes community and school sports.  Let's be honest 80% of club soccer is just glorified rec soccer.  My concern is if it goes too far and eliminates winners and losers.  We don't want competitive sports to be eliminated like dodgeball has.


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## oh canada (Nov 17, 2021)

foreveryoung said:


> Interestingly I do a lot of consumer/generational trend analysis for work and if you look at the next generation of parents (Gen Y) who will take over from Gen X as the majority stakeholders in youth sports over the next 10 years, they care a lot about equity and are _significantly_ less competitive as a group than Gen X.  They are also pretty sour about their college experience.  It will be interesting to see how they impact the current youth sports system with their consumer choices.  My guess would be that the pay to play youth competitive sports industry will shrink or stay stagnant and there will be a revitalization of community and school sports.


100%. And for those wanting competition, shifting to individual-based sports to eliminate dealing with all the parent politics and talent id subjectivity that comes with team sports; soccer being the most subjective sport of all.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Nov 17, 2021)

In regards to DPL/ECRL/ECNL  competition,  it will be interesting to see who wins the 2009G  Socal State cup elite level this year.    At this Elite level, you have 7 ECRL teams, 2 DPL teams. 1 ECNL team, and all others are discovery/flight 1.     LAFC SoCal is the only ECNL team in this group but many of the ECRL teams have added ECNL players to their rosters.     

  I would love to see more top teams do this competition in future years at least for the younger age groups.   I understand that College Showcases are more important for the high school ECNL teams but it means nothing for the younger groups.


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## crush (Nov 17, 2021)

watfly said:


> The "your kid will be on the 2nd team but will have the opportunity to play on the 1st and maybe move up permanently" is one of the biggest and most told lies in youth soccer.  If as a parent you haven't figured that out by the time your kid is ECNL/MLS Next/GA age then you just can't blame the club for not living up to its promises.  You have to shoulder some of that responsibility.


100%.  Or a top developer of soccer talent says, "Look Mr. Jones, I like your ds/dd and they have potential & show some promise to be Elite some day.  This is where I come in sir.  Right now, I see your kid on the bench with A team and starting on the B team.  If you pay me for my 6 month development program, I will make sure your kid stays on the A team and sniff some memorable minutes.  All your kid needs to do is the work and all you need to do is pay me each month."


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## GT45 (Nov 17, 2021)

dad4 said:


> If you are choosing an ECRL team, and the club uses the ECNL team as bait, then it’s perfectly reasonable to ask how many ECRL players were rostered for the most recent ECNL showcase.
> 
> Similarly, if you are looking for a younger ECNL team, and the club uses playing up as bait, then it is reasonable to ask how many ECNL players were allowed to play up at the last showcase.
> 
> That will give you an idea what the odds really are.  For most clubs, the odds are very low.  Bait is just bait, and you’re better off ignoring it.


The problem with your scenario is that most, if not all, players on the ECNL team make sure they are available to play in showcases. So there is no room for players to be pulled up. Your scenario is not fair. ECRL players often play up for ECNL teams in league games at the Blues. I have seen it at all of the older ages.


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## Sike (Nov 18, 2021)

GT45 said:


> The problem with your scenario is that most, if not all, players on the ECNL team make sure they are available to play in showcases. So there is no room for players to be pulled up. Your scenario is not fair. ECRL players often play up for ECNL teams in league games at the Blues. I have seen it at all of the older ages.


While I am sure most ECNL girls want to be at all showcase games, I am also sure most older teams had missing players at the showcase last weekend due to injuries.  Unfortunately, this is just the reality the older the girls get.  I also don't think your comment about Blues older ages is correct, at least not so far this year.


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## GT45 (Nov 20, 2021)

Sike said:


> While I am sure most ECNL girls want to be at all showcase games, I am also sure most older teams had missing players at the showcase last weekend due to injuries.  Unfortunately, this is just the reality the older the girls get.  I also don't think your comment about Blues older ages is correct, at least not so far this year.


The U17 and U16 Blues ECNL teams have both used ECRL players this year in multiple league games this fall. The U19 ECNL team has a player on it this year that used to be on the ECRL team. And, they used a current ECRL player in a game.


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 21, 2021)

I think what people are saying (without saying it) is that ECRL at Surf is worthless.

Typically Surf recruits over bringing up from within.

Other clubs do bring up ECRL to play on ECNL when the move is warranted. Also with the new changes allowing NL/RL to play on either team the push is to allow more movement.


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## LouSag (Nov 21, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I think what people are saying (without saying it) is that ECRL at Surf is worthless.
> 
> Typically Surf recruits over bringing up from within.
> 
> Other clubs do bring up ECRL to play on ECNL when the move is warranted. Also with the new changes allowing NL/RL to play on either team the push is to allow more movement.


Partially true.  The Surf 06 ECNL’s have 1 or 2 ECRL players with them every chance the schedule allows.


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## outside! (Nov 22, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Typically Surf recruits over bringing up from within.


So not much has changed over the years.


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