# When does the league you play in start mattering?



## Supermodel56 (May 9, 2018)

Trying to gauge at what age does it start making a difference what level of competition and what league/flight you're playing in starts to matter? 

1) We talk about not worrying about wins/losses, is it better to play in a league where the competition is better than your level - as that can help your team/player to step up to the challenge? Or is it better for them to be at the top where they are crushing everyone? Does this change over time?

2) How about exposure? at what age do college/ODP coaches start watching/noticing? I'm assuming you're less likely to get noticed playing lower leagues - assuming coaches watch league games at all...

Thoughts?


----------



## mirage (May 9, 2018)

Win/Loss ultimately matter in the levels of competition starting around U13~U14 (for boys, it may be earlier for girls but not clear because those that get recruited that early is actually a true exceptions - YNT players).

The only reason to care at U13~U14 is so that your team can get accepted into nationally recognized tournaments for college exposure sake.  These are Dallas Cup, Potomac Memorial Day, Surf Cup, Disney Showcase and so on.  Since the applicants far exceeds game slots, clearly they only take highly ranked or very well connected.

In terms of individual performance display, probably U16 and above.  In other words, even if your team is not on best of the best list, as long as its in the top 10% team in the nation, there will be plenty of opportunity to play in the front of lots of coaches (e.g., LV Players Showcase, Surf Man City Cup, Surf Thanksgiving College Showcase, and so on).  

Just remember that the coaches recruit individual players and not teams.  About the only time a coach that will come to a league game is to verify their decision after the hard recruiting work is done for reaffirmation.  Otherwise they will not come to any local league games.

I remember when my older kid was still playing travel ball, one of the coaches we knew was also SoCal scout for one of the MLB teams.  He never gave rats about his teams' W/L records at anything less than 14U.  He only cared how the players performed when the kid was 16, 17 years old.

With all that said, this is why so many are attracted to DA.  DA provides the best exposure automatically because if you're on one of the DA teams, all the college coaches are there.  Even if the team is performing poorly in terms of W/L record.  When our older played DA, at the showcase games, it was typical to have 30~40 coaches lined up on the sideline watching any given game.  Local college coaches would show up for league games too.

I know people here like to compare DA and ECNL but my guess is that in the long run, DA will win out (given that its USSF that runs it) over any other high level league.

The last thing is there are plenty of kids that get recruited outside of DA/ECNL.  Its just that the exposure is more difficult and the player has to work at it much harder to get noticed.  Also, many colleges with smaller programs don't seek out DA players because the expectation for scholarship is too high for the schools affordability.  I've spoken to many coaches that may have one or two former DA players on the roster but all others are from elsewhere.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Dargle (May 9, 2018)

In answer to your second question, if you really want to be seen at the first opportunity for DA and ODP scouting (college scouts come later), then the answer is U11 for boys (same for girls in ODP, but DA starts a little later currently).  If you are in Gold/Silver Elite in CSL or Flight 1 at SCDSL in U11, then you will go to President's Cup, which is the highest level since Nat'l Cup doesn't start until U12.  The DA and ODP scouts are out in full force at President's Cup for the U11s and the DA scouts who are still looking for players come out for a few of the big spring tournaments that year to watch the top flights.  Those scouts simply don't go to Governor's or Mayor's Cup at all, which is where Silver/Bronze or Flight 2/3 teams go. 

Of course, that assumes it's important to be seen at the first opportunity, which is not always the case.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (May 9, 2018)

I think going into the Sophmore year is when it matters.  In our case I believe we waited one year too long to move.  At that point I would get your kid on a team at the biggest club in your area.  DA if they can hang at that level and get playing time. ECNL next. Then either Champions bracket or DPL.  The best team on the biggest club at the highest level league possible.  This gives you the best chance to get into showcases and highlight your player.  The big clubs also have more connections.  

Coaches and parents say all the time that it’s players that get recruited not teams.  This is misleading.  All you need to do is look at the 2018 recruiting announcements or who is committed for 2019 and later.  In almost every case these kids play DA or ECNL.  Prior to playing DA a good turnout at a showcase for us was 10-15 coaches with a few D1. With DA we get 50 plus coaches almost all D1 at each showcase game.  I saw another DA team have over 100 confirmed coaches at a game. We even get D1 coaches showing up at league games.  It’s crazy.


----------



## El Clasico (May 9, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> I think going into the Sophmore year is when it matters.  In our case I believe we waited one year too long to move.  At that point I would get your kid on a team at the biggest club in your area.  DA if they can hang at that level and get playing time. ECNL next. Then either Champions bracket or DPL.  The best team on the biggest club at the highest level league possible.  This gives you the best chance to get into showcases and highlight your player.  The big clubs also have more connections.
> 
> Coaches and parents say all the time that it’s players that get recruited not teams.  This is misleading.  All you need to do is look at the 2018 recruiting announcements or who is committed for 2019 and later.  In almost every case these kids play DA or ECNL.  Prior to playing DA a good turnout at a showcase for us was 10-15 coaches with a few D1. With DA we get 50 plus coaches almost all D1 at each showcase game.  I saw another DA team have over 100 confirmed coaches at a game. We even get D1 coaches showing up at league games.  It’s crazy.


Unless I am mistaken, and that happens a lot, your daughter will be a senior in 4 months. With all those college coaches watching your games, what is the conversion rate, at your games, between # of coaches and # of offers...if you know.  Might be easier if we use your daughter and extrapolate out. How many offers of substance has your daughter received? I am curious.


----------



## ChargerPride (May 9, 2018)

At U12 once National Cup is a great way for exposure. To get on the radar. Meaning that your DD is on a quality team that is not DA or ECNL. However at that age, it's only a taste. Bigger and better things tend to line up as players develop into better players. Reality is that even though certain clubs with certain coaches tend to have team at this level. Not all players advance/mature with the game. The factors are too numerous to mention why. For those players who can excel and practically play on any given team if they wanted. I don't think that they MUST be on the best team. The one that always wins. I think more importantly is how they win. I think when you look to scout a player, you can always get lost in watching the top scorer with the team that wins most if not all the games. Everyone would like to land that player. Only 1 college will. Yet if those goals are coming by way of the long ball or kickball mentality, where the biggest, fastest, and strongest are on the field. Then what is the quality of the game. 

That is why I feel it's about the quality of the coach and how the club teaches its players. If you find the right coach who your DD actually listens too, who hopefully coaches the style that best fits your player. Then you have about the best matchmaking you can ask for. At that point, your DD is playing the kind of soccer that coaches are looking for. After all each college needs more than just that 1 player, yeah maybe that next Messi, and if your DD is that player, it doesn't matter. They will find your DD. If your player isn't the next ..., but is playing at a smart level, who's consistent in their game. Then the only thing stopping them is, can they do more to improve. 

All teams are made up of 11 starters, focus on what make your DD the best player. Not only will you have a good player but hopefully a happy one too...


----------



## Supermodel56 (May 9, 2018)

Dargle said:


> In answer to your second question, if you really want to be seen at the first opportunity for DA and ODP scouting (college scouts come later), then the answer is U11 for boys (same for girls in ODP, but DA starts a little later currently).  If you are in Gold/Silver Elite in CSL or Flight 1 at SCDSL in U11, then you will go to President's Cup, which is the highest level since Nat'l Cup doesn't start until U12.  The DA and ODP scouts are out in full force at President's Cup for the U11s and the DA scouts who are still looking for players come out for a few of the big spring tournaments that year to watch the top flights.  Those scouts simply don't go to Governor's or Mayor's Cup at all, which is where Silver/Bronze or Flight 2/3 teams go.
> 
> Of course, that assumes it's important to be seen at the first opportunity, which is not always the case.


Thanks. So basically what I'm hearing is that if exposure to ODP and DA coaches (are those the DA coaches from your local club?) is a concern, make sure it's a team that will be playing Presidents for U11 and National Cup for U12+.  So that's basically be, CSL Gold, SCDSL Flight 1, and Presidio SDDA Flight 1, correct?


----------



## Josep (May 10, 2018)

Supermodel56 said:


> Thanks. So basically what I'm hearing is that if exposure to ODP and DA coaches (are those the DA coaches from your local club?) is a concern, make sure it's a team that will be playing Presidents for U11 and National Cup for U12+.  So that's basically be, CSL Gold, SCDSL Flight 1, and Presidio SDDA Flight 1, correct?


My experience: You will Be lucky to get a tiny bit of exposure at National Cup, and by that I mean a couple of college coaches looking for specific players.  

If you are on ECNL or DA, exposure is much easier - on and off the field.   Showcases and regular games, plus through video and emailing systems.   In Florida we had something like 128 schools at our 3 games.  In North Carolina the number was less, however coaches had already contact our players (through the club) .

My kid was a better player and top scorer on flight one teams and has been more of a role player on ecnl and DA and has gotten way more attention, profile visits and camp ID offers than when she was scoring and performing in National Cup.   That could have to do with age and the process but I believe where she played helped.


----------



## Fact (May 10, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> I think going into the Sophmore year is when it matters.  In our case I believe we waited one year too long to move.  At that point I would get your kid on a team at the biggest club in your area.  DA if they can hang at that level and get playing time. ECNL next. Then either Champions bracket or DPL.  The best team on the biggest club at the highest level league possible.  This gives you the best chance to get into showcases and highlight your player.  The big clubs also have more connections.
> 
> Coaches and parents say all the time that it’s players that get recruited not teams.  This is misleading.  All you need to do is look at the 2018 recruiting announcements or who is committed for 2019 and later.  In almost every case these kids play DA or ECNL.  Prior to playing DA a good turnout at a showcase for us was 10-15 coaches with a few D1. With DA we get 50 plus coaches almost all D1 at each showcase game.  I saw another DA team have over 100 confirmed coaches at a game. We even get D1 coaches showing up at league games.  It’s crazy.


You’re such a Pansy. So in San Diego you are telling everyone to join Albion which has 20+ teams over Surf. Now they might have some good boys teams but in all cases their girls teams are way better. 

You are also telling them to join the highest team possible when they may be the 22nd player on the bench. Not a lot of exposure there.  

More I believe that you look for the coach first. They are your best agent in the recruitment process. If that is not possible look for a private trainer with connections.

In our cases we were targeting specific schools and did not care how many coaches were on the sidelines. If they were not from those 3-4 schools we targeted it did not matter. Playing sports in college was not the priority for us, it was getting into the school my children wanted to attend and if sports was also in the picture that was a bonus.


----------



## Fact (May 10, 2018)

@Emma what is your opinion other than just rating everyone of my posts dumb? What’s the problem, can’t use full sentences?


----------



## Simisoccerfan (May 10, 2018)

Fact said:


> You’re such a Pansy. So in San Diego you are telling everyone to join Albion which has 20+ teams over Surf. Now they might have some good boys teams but in all cases their girls teams are way better.
> 
> You are also telling them to join the highest team possible when they may be the 22nd player on the bench. Not a lot of exposure there.
> 
> ...


I know you have a thing for Albion but give it a rest.  Clearly though Albion has more teams Surf has a bigger name.  Biggest club doesn't necessarily mean the one with the most teams.   So don't take things so literal.   I also said join a team where your dd can hang and get playing time.  Being the 22nd player on the bench doesn't meet that criteria.  So did that recruiting strategy work for you?  Did your kids play College Soccer?  Or at least get into the College that they wanted to?


----------



## futboldad1 (May 10, 2018)

Fact said:


> More I believe that you look for the coach first. They are your best agent in the recruitment process. If that is not possible look for a private trainer with connections.
> .


This x 1,000,000.  A coach with a good team that believes in your kid and is willing to make calls. Sadly they are few and far between so if you find one stick with them (which we'd have done had we not had to relocate 130 miles)


----------



## beachbum (May 10, 2018)

Supermodel56 said:


> Trying to gauge at what age does it start making a difference what level of competition and what league/flight you're playing in starts to matter?
> 
> 1) We talk about not worrying about wins/losses, is it better to play in a league where the competition is better than your level - as that can help your team/player to step up to the challenge? Or is it better for them to be at the top where they are crushing everyone? Does this change over time?
> 
> ...


1.  It is always better to play on a good team against strong competition from the earliest ages as long as you have a quality coach.  If your playing in AYSO and your kid scores 6 goals a game, that's not helping your player or anyone else.  If they have the desire IMO you should always have them playing with and against the best teams. 
2.  As far a exposure the best places are ECNL and DA so in the U13 - U14 range or 8th grade is when you move for that.


----------



## Fact (May 10, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> So did that recruiting strategy work for you?  Did your kids play College Soccer?  Or at least get into the College that they wanted to?


 Yes. Yes 1/3, 1/3 another sport, 1/3 had to quit due to travel of another activity. Yes and all top 10 schools.

So how many offers does you dd have to schools she would actually want to attend?


----------



## soccerobserver (May 10, 2018)

SM56, what is your goal/objective for your player ?? What is the soccer for? I think the answer to your question will be influenced by the goal and objective of the whole deal.


----------



## Coyotef (May 11, 2018)

My daughter is National Cup (2002)  sweet 16 tomorrow and her game is being live streamed to college coaches - which is pretty exciting and quite a few are attending as well. We really like our coach and while we considered ECNL (played 6 games with a team) we chose to stay with her current coach and local BIG club she really likes and has continued to develop. Club soccer becomes a big part of your life and we have seen many families struggle with decisions of moving to different leagues, teams. If college play is her goal then I suggest getting a recruiter when she is a freshman to help with the process. It really helped us focus and we now have a handful of good schools we want that are following our daughter. For now hook up with a great coach, no matter where the club (Big club size only matters as she gets older) and get her into flight one competition. She started playing Club at u11 and still loves it. - She has played on Varsity at HS and really has enjoyed that time with friends ( who ALL are in different clubs)  to so she did not even want to consider DPL.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (May 11, 2018)

Supermodel56 said:


> Trying to gauge at what age does it start making a difference what level of competition and what league/flight you're playing in starts to matter?
> 
> 1) We talk about not worrying about wins/losses, is it better to play in a league where the competition is better than your level - as that can help your team/player to step up to the challenge? Or is it better for them to be at the top where they are crushing everyone? Does this change over time?
> 
> ...


It starts tomorrow.


----------



## Supermodel56 (May 12, 2018)

monsteraddict said:


> @Supermodel56 I would suggest your daughter find a good coach who focuses on her development so she can get on a flight 1 team that will gain her more exposure. Yes it doesn’t matter which team she’s on but if you’re looking for exposure it won’t be on the B team. Just train harder so she can stand out and possibly get noticed by DA coach when she’s older.  She’s still young. It doesn’t matter which league she’s playing in at ulittle.


The question is more referring to if it matters whether you’re playing CSL/SCDSL/Presidio.

Assume all flight 1.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (May 12, 2018)

Supermodel56 said:


> The question is more referring to if it matters whether you’re playing CSL/SCDSL/Presidio.
> 
> Assume all flight 1.


No


----------



## Fact (May 12, 2018)

Supermodel56 said:


> The question is more referring to if it matters whether you’re playing CSL/SCDSL/Presidio.
> 
> Assume all flight 1.





Simisoccerfan said:


> No


Yes it matters. You need to play against teams that are challenging which will help with decision making, speed of play, first touch, putting pressure of balls, 50/50 balls etc.  For most ages after U10 Presidio is a joke unless a team is playing up.


----------



## Dr. Richard Hurtz (May 13, 2018)

It always matter. If your child wants to be the best and become a professional,  you have to follow the pyramid. In the USA,  it’s the Development Academy League and the best teams in it are MLS clubs. It’s never too early to start in this direction. Good luck to you and your child.


----------



## GunninGopher (May 13, 2018)

Supermodel56 said:


> Trying to gauge at what age does it start making a difference what level of competition and what league/flight you're playing in starts to matter?
> 
> Thoughts?


I'm sure you're getting a lot of good advice here. But I say it starts to matter when fuel gets over $4 per gallon again!!!


----------



## INFAMEE (May 13, 2018)

Fact said:


> Yes it matters. You need to play against teams that are challenging which will help with decision making, speed of play, first touch, putting pressure of balls, 50/50 balls etc.  For most ages after U10 Presidio is a joke unless a team is playing up.


Presidio is equivalent to CSL, SCDL, and every other pseudo development league out there.

Up until this very point all pay-to-play clubs are recreational.

It doesn't matter where you're playing.


----------

