# Gets demoted?



## Jamisfoes (Dec 8, 2021)

Tryout season. Do clubs demote kids from flight 1 to flight 2 when better players come along? I would imagine that's a tough conversation with the kid's parents.


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## espola (Dec 8, 2021)

Jamisfoes said:


> Tryout season. Do clubs demote kids from flight 1 to flight 2 when better players come along? I would imagine that's a tough conversation with the kid's parents.


You could see it that way, or maybe more palatable is that everyone gets dropped to the tryout pool and the cream rises to the top.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Dec 8, 2021)

All day long.  Normally after other clubs have had tryouts and with no advance notice.  And with some clubs they better not catch you looking at other clubs, how dare you.  And if a better kid comes along after tryouts, they will find room, no matter what they tell you.  

PS  Clubs seem to look at kids from outside with a more eye than kids in house.


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## Venantsyo (Dec 8, 2021)

Tough conversation for sure, but that’s better then keeping weaker players on the team just to reach critical (financial) mass, well knowing they will get very limited playing time..


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## espola (Dec 8, 2021)

Venantsyo said:


> Tough conversation for sure, but that’s better then keeping weaker players on the team just to reach critical (financial) mass, well knowing they will get very limited playing time..


The toughest situation I had to witness was an older teens boys team that scheduled their tryouts the week after State Cup pool play weekend.  As luck would have it, the team made it through for one more weekend in Lancaster, and the coach had to call three boys and their parents to the side after the eventual loss to tell them the bad news.


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## ToonArmy (Dec 8, 2021)

My experience has been that the flight 2 player almost always gets overlooked at being promoted to the flight 1 team in favor of players outside the club even if those players come from a flight 2 team


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## Messi>CR7 (Dec 8, 2021)

At my boy's club they made it clear that a roster spot is only good for one year particularly for their A team.  A top flight coach's job is to take the best 12 kids (let's say for 9v9) from the tryout regardless whether they are incoming or returning players.  To keep his job, a coach has to do this every year.  Not that many coaches have the job security to place loyalty above all else (flight 2 is a different story).  If you can accept this as the norm, then the conversation gets a little easier.

Having said that, many clubs at the younger ages these days have multiple flight 1 teams.  So while you may get demoted to a different team, you don't necessarily get demoted to a lower flight.


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## Emma (Dec 8, 2021)

Jamisfoes said:


> Tryout season. Do clubs demote kids from flight 1 to flight 2 when better players come along? I would imagine that's a tough conversation with the kid's parents.


We've seen this happen every tryout season except Covid.  Most parents should know if their kid is on the bubble to be moved down by tryout season.  This means the child will get more playing time in their next team unless parents want to continue having their child come on to another team as a bench player.  If you've spoken to the coach several times about your child's playing time this season, there's a good chance demotion will occur unless no players come out at tryouts.


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## crush (Dec 8, 2021)

Bump


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## Messi>CR7 (Dec 8, 2021)

ToonArmy said:


> My experience has been that the flight 2 player almost always gets overlooked at being promoted to the flight 1 team in favor of players outside the club even if those players come from a flight 2 team


It's the same way in real life.  It's much easier to get a big raise and a bigger title from your competitor than a promotion from within.


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## watfly (Dec 8, 2021)

Emma said:


> Most parents should know if their kid is on the bubble to be moved down by tryout season.


Therein lies a big part of the problem.


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## Grace T. (Dec 8, 2021)

Messi>CR7 said:


> At my boy's club they made it clear that a roster spot is only good for one year particularly for their A team.  A top flight coach's job is to take the best 12 kids (let's say for 9v9) from the tryout regardless whether they are incoming or returning players.  To keep his job, a coach has to do this every year.  Not that many coaches have the job security to place loyalty above all else (flight 2 is a different story).  If you can accept this as the norm, then the conversation gets a little easier.
> 
> Having said that, many clubs at the younger ages these days have multiple flight 1 teams.  So while you may get demoted to a different team, you don't necessarily get demoted to a lower flight.


But it also works the other way, which means player loyalty is only for one year too.

My favorite, though, is when the team actually earns the promotion.  That's actually one of the riskiest position to be in if you are a player who even may be a starter but isn't one of the strongest on the team.  The coach will use the promotion to recruit good players from other teams that did not earn promotion (who will leave their current teams for failure to get promotion) and won't necessarily dance with the one that brung them (because promoted teams are often the most vulnerable for demotion in their new brackets).


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## timbuck (Dec 8, 2021)

Rarely does a player who gets moved "down" work out.
Usually, they decide to leave the club and play somewhere else.  Possibly even on a lower flighted team.
Or they move down to the f2/3 team and are miserable because all of their old teammates were much better and they are frustrated playing with weaker players (even they are now the best player on the team).


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## Woodwork (Dec 8, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Rarely does a player who gets moved "down" work out.
> Usually, they decide to leave the club and play somewhere else.  Possibly even on a lower flighted team.
> Or they move down to the f2/3 team and are miserable because all of their old teammates were much better and they are frustrated playing with weaker players (even they are now the best player on the team).


Exactly.

Step 1. Move to a competing club.
Step 2.  Make old club pay for their insolence.


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## Emma (Dec 8, 2021)

Woodwork said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Step 1. Move to a competing club.
> Step 2.  Make old club pay for their insolence.


If your player is replaced with an equivalent level player or less, yes.  If your kid really belongs on the lower team and will thrive as a leader, it may not be worth driving somewhere far for practice.  If everyone practices at Great Park, then it really comes down to whether you want to buy a new uniform kit.


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## GT45 (Dec 8, 2021)

For what it is worth, I have seen kids get cut from a flight one team, play flight 2 the next year, gain all the confidence they were previously missing by sitting on the bench a lot on the flight one team, and the following season make it back to the flight 1 team. Playing time makes a huge difference in development and confidence. You can win the tryout and make flight 1, but is that the best fit for your child's confidence and development if they are not going to play a lot?


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## Grace T. (Dec 8, 2021)

Emma said:


> If your player is replaced with an equivalent level player or less, yes.  If your kid really belongs on the lower team and will thrive as a leader, it may not be worth driving somewhere far for practice.  If everyone practices at Great Park, then it really comes down to whether you want to buy a new uniform kit.


“Equivalent” is a little hard to gauge. As we’ve explored in other threads sometimes it’s just not a good fit.  Maybe the team has a very passing based philosophy and the dd is good at ball handling/dribbling.  Maybe the team is all about the running game and need fast players. Maybe they want a gk who can play with their feet, or maybe they want one that can pound it to the other side. At least on the boys side, in middle school it’s also all about height.

then there’s the issue that the gaps in brackets really are huge. In the last 3 seasons all teams promoted out of my sons former team’s bronze bracket struggled or were outright demoted (finishing at least 3rd from the bottom). Same with his silver team whenever they went up against a silver elite team. The gulf in ability and commitment is very large. Unless the child is obviously not where they are supposed to be (which usually is a physical matter or mental matter or a question of the child not putting in the work) as others have said this usually doesn’t end in leadership but frustration.

in the end, when you think about it, teams advance out of brackets because they have 2-6 players playing at much lower levels than they are capable of handling at the current time. They are playing down which lifts the entire team


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## Jar!23 (Dec 8, 2021)

The coach has to try to get the best players for the team.  If a kid gets dropped it means that the coach doesn’t think the player can contribute.  It’s not necessarily a bad thing for the player if the player and family is realistic about their player’s ability.  If they think the coach is making a wrong decision and the player doesn’t want to move down a flight then find another club to play at the same level.  There is always going to be another team that needs players. 

 I think many parents are not practical and think that the coach is supposed to transform their kid from an OK player to a great player able to start and play all the high level games.  They blame the coach for not giving their kid what they think is enough playing time or training their kid well enough.  Well if the kid isn’t playing much, it’s because there are 11 other kids the coach thinks is better.  The player needs to put in the work and best effort.  Don’t rely only on team practices to get better.  And even then after putting in all the work, the player may still be not good enough.  Best to move down in that situation.


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## paytoplay (Dec 8, 2021)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> All day long.  Normally after other clubs have had tryouts and with no advance notice.  And with some clubs they better not catch you looking at other clubs, how dare you.  And if a better kid comes along after tryouts, they will find room, no matter what they tell you.
> 
> *PS* *Clubs seem to look at kids from outside with a more eye than kids in house.*


The club$ are banking on you staying and paying to have your kid ride it out another year on the lesser team. Getting that outside money (player) is easier if they can offer a spot on the more elite team. And now you got one more kid selling golf balls. Recruiting 101.


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## Grace T. (Dec 8, 2021)

Jar!23 said:


> The coach has to try to get the best players for the team.  If a kid gets dropped it means that the coach doesn’t think the player can contribute.  It’s not necessarily a bad thing for the player if the player and family is realistic about their player’s ability.  If they think the coach is making a wrong decision and the player doesn’t want to move down a flight then find another club to play at the same level.  There is always going to be another team that needs players.
> 
> I think many parents are not practical and think that the coach is supposed to transform their kid from an OK player to a great player able to start and play all the high level games.  They blame the coach for not giving their kid what they think is enough playing time or training their kid well enough.  Well if the kid isn’t playing much, it’s because there are 11 other kids the coach thinks is better.  The player needs to put in the work and best effort.  Don’t rely only on team practices to get better.  And even then after putting in all the work, the player may still be not good enough.  Best to move down in that situation.


If you are at the top of the bracket [other than the most elite levels once 11v11 kicks in] you have players playing for you that should be playing at a higher level and are currently playing down. Is the focus to win games or is the focus to develop players in an appropriate setting?  

youth soccer can be competitive, developmental or accessible. Pick 2.


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## Yak (Dec 9, 2021)

Messi>CR7 said:


> At my boy's club they made it clear that a roster spot is only good for one year particularly for their A team.  A top flight coach's job is to take the best 12 kids (let's say for 9v9) from the tryout regardless whether they are incoming or returning players.  To keep his job, a coach has to do this every year.  Not that many coaches have the job security to place loyalty above all else (flight 2 is a different story).  If you can accept this as the norm, then the conversation gets a little easier.
> 
> Having said that, many clubs at the younger ages these days have multiple flight 1 teams.  So while you may get demoted to a different team, you don't necessarily get demoted to a lower flight.


Very sad that coaches view their job as recruiting players to win meaningless youth games vs. developing potential talent.


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## Carlsbad7 (Dec 9, 2021)

We've been promoted and demoted heres my take...

A team Parents and to a lesser extent Players can be aweful. They try to setup cliques to exclude others, wont relay info other parents, tell their kids to not pass someone they dont like, etc. All the nonsense gets old quick.

B team Parents are way more fun to be around during the games and at practice.

If your kid is good the coaches will find them. You want to lightly pressure players to do their best but dont be overbearing + dont get overly involved in all the who gets to play for which team drama. I've seen parents go from super arrogant ass to humbled on a B team in the span of 6 months.

Heres what I look for in a team.
1. Competitive
2. Good coach
3. Good parents (not crazy Soccer psychos)
4. Good players 
5. League
6. Club


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## crush (Dec 9, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> We've been promoted and demoted heres my take...
> 
> A team Parents and to a lesser extent Players can be aweful. They try to setup cliques to exclude others, wont relay info other parents, tell their kids to not pass someone they dont like, etc. All the nonsense gets old quick.
> 
> ...


As I end my time as a father in youth soccer, I will say this is probably the one phrase that makes me see see why youth soccer has a lot to work on to get better. "My dd is Center Mid Fielder and if you want her services then I need it in writing that she gets that spot forever."


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## watfly (Dec 9, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> We've been promoted and demoted heres my take...
> 
> A team Parents and to a lesser extent Players can be aweful. They try to setup cliques to exclude others, wont relay info other parents, tell their kids to not pass someone they dont like, etc. All the nonsense gets old quick.
> 
> ...


Having good team parents is greatly underrated in my opinion.  For selfish reasons I want parents that I can shoot sideline bull with and hangout with on out of town trips.  I enjoy hanging out with a diverse group of parents that I might not otherwise cross paths with.  And like you said, the bad/drama parents influence their kids and create a negative atmosphere among the players.

My kid was demoted from a DA team for a shiny new object despite numerous promises that he had "nothing to worry about".  That shiny new object didn't even last a full season and my son is starting on team that is now better than his old team and players from his old team are lining up to play for his current team.  I'd be lying if I said that doesn't warm my heart a bit.


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## Jar!23 (Dec 9, 2021)

I’ve seen players quit after getting demoted.  But really the player wasn’t that dedicated to begin with or the player needs to be playing at a different level.  Typically the parent feels that the coach was being unfair or not giving their player enough of a chance.  At least that’s what I hear being said out loud.  Sometimes the player’s reaction to being demoted says a lot about the character of the player.  The problem is at the youth ages, everything is also influenced by the parents.  

My kid had a teammate on the B team.  He was doing ok, the mom really chatted up the coach asking if the player can play on the A team.  Coach needed players on the A team anyways so decided to dual roster the kid.  Well, on the A team the kid didn’t start games.  Two games in a row the coach gave him maybe 30% game time.  The third game the coach plays him more than 50% of the game.  Mom talks to the coach right after that game and says that the coach is ruining the kid’s self esteem.  They leave the club mid-season.  They went to another club, playing at a rec level.


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## watfly (Dec 9, 2021)

Jar!23 said:


> I’ve seen players quit after getting demoted.  But really the player wasn’t that dedicated to begin with or the player needs to be playing at a different level.  Typically the parent feels that the coach was being unfair or not giving their player enough of a chance.  At least that’s what I hear being said out loud.  Sometimes the player’s reaction to being demoted says a lot about the character of the player.  The problem is at the youth ages, everything is also influenced by the parents.
> 
> My kid had a teammate on the B team.  He was doing ok, the mom really chatted up the coach asking if the player can play on the A team.  Coach needed players on the A team anyways so decided to dual roster the kid.  Well, on the A team the kid didn’t start games.  Two games in a row the coach gave him maybe 30% game time.  The third game the coach plays him more than 50% of the game.  Mom talks to the coach right after that game and says that the coach is ruining the kid’s self esteem.  They leave the club mid-season.  They went to another club, playing at a rec level.


50%+ playing time for a top flight team is actually a good amount.


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## Jar!23 (Dec 9, 2021)

watfly said:


> Having good team parents is greatly underrated in my opinion.  For selfish reasons I want parents that I can shoot sideline bull with and hangout with on out of town trips.  I enjoy hanging out with a diverse group of parents that I might not otherwise cross paths with.  And like you said, the bad/drama parents influence their kids and create a negative atmosphere among the players.
> 
> My kid was demoted from a DA team for a shiny new object despite numerous promises that he had "nothing to worry about".  That shiny new object didn't even last a full season and my son is starting on team that is now better than his old team and players from his old team are lining up to play for his current team.  I'd be lying if I said that doesn't warm my heart a bit.


That’s great.  It’s probably not the general outcome to being demoted?  The kids who want to play will keep playing regardless.


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## Jar!23 (Dec 9, 2021)

I


watfly said:


> 50%+ playing time for a top flight team is actually a good amount.


That’s what I thought too.  I was confused by the mom’s reaction and what she said.  Maybe it was a defense mechanism after seeing that her kid really was not up to it.


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## Emma (Dec 9, 2021)

The most important thing during a demotion is how parents are with their kids.  It's a tough time for a child to go through because there will be lots of self doubt and losses (friendships).  Every parent should take time to think about their child's personality and manage it accordingly.  Be there for your child in a positive manner.

We've been through the demotes and promotes with our girl and boy.  Handled it differently each time but always gave them the option to choose what they wanted to do, stay and fight for another year at the same club in the B team, stay and just play, or leave and make a statement. My daughter chose the stay and fight (and she won that battle).  My son chose to leave and make a statement.  Worked for him too.


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Dec 9, 2021)

watfly said:


> Having good team parents is greatly underrated in my opinion.  For selfish reasons I want parents that I can shoot sideline bull with and hangout with on out of town trips.  I enjoy hanging out with a diverse group of parents that I might not otherwise cross paths with.  And like you said, the bad/drama parents influence their kids and create a negative atmosphere among the players.


Agreed. Very underrated thing to consider because let's be honest, it's our kids' teams but we get to spend a lot of time with their teammates' parents and if they're miserable to be with, it's going to be a very long year.

All of my kid's current teammates' parents are friendly and cordial and a handful I'd consider friends where I would totally keep in touch and hang out even if our kids were not on the same team anymore. It makes early morning trips to Norco or Del Mar or wherever slightly less miserable.


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Dec 9, 2021)

Jamisfoes said:


> Tryout season. Do clubs demote kids from flight 1 to flight 2 when better players come along? I would imagine that's a tough conversation with the kid's parents.


On my kid's team, I'd say there are probably 2-3 fringe players. The coach tries to still give as much playing time as possible. But in a tournament setting or something, gets little playing time. Clearly, they're not on the same level skill wise with the other players to a degree that it's hurting some of the things the team wants to do on the field. It's obvious to the "other parents" but wonder if they know that demotion is possible... because we tend to have blinders on for our own kids.

I'd say one thing though. Kids develop at different paces. The demotion to flight 2 or 3 or whatever doesn't mean in 1 or 2 or 3 years, that kid won't be a key piece on a really good flight 1 team. The main thing is each kid needs to be on a team where he/she is learning and involved in the team. Being "the worst" on the team isn't good for confidence or development. 

I've always thought for best development, being on a team where the kid is above average on the team is great. Kid can be integral part of the team but still have a few kids better that can challenge him/her. Of course in practice, on a team, not everyone can be above average (mathematically impossible... like how 100% of us believe we are above average drivers... 50% of you are wrong! )


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## watfly (Dec 9, 2021)

Jar!23 said:


> That’s great.  It’s probably not the general outcome to being demoted?  The kids who want to play will keep playing regardless.


From what I've seen your chances are better off if you leave the club, but there are always exceptions.  At the end of the day it ultimately comes down to the ability of your child.  Some coaches are bad at identifying talent or look for particular characteristics, but some kids are just not 1st team material regardless of what their parents think.

Size is often a determining factor which is kind of the American way.  Size vs soccer IQ, most coaches are going to choose size as they believe they can teach soccer IQ, which really couldn't be farther from the truth.  It's actually easier to improve a player's speed than it is their IQ.  The old axiom that "you can't teach speed" is only partially true.  IMHO soccer IQ is what really sets players apart as they get older (but that is a biased opinion).


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## crush (Dec 9, 2021)

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> On my kid's team, I'd say there are probably 2-3 fringe players. The coach tries to still give as much playing time as possible. But in a tournament setting or something, gets little playing time. Clearly, they're not on the same level skill wise with the other players to a degree that it's hurting some of the things the team wants to do on the field. It's obvious to the "other parents" but wonder if they know that demotion is possible... because we tend to have blinders on for our own kids.
> 
> I'd say one thing though. Kids develop at different paces. The demotion to flight 2 or 3 or whatever doesn't mean in 1 or 2 or 3 years, that kid won't be a key piece on a really good flight 1 team. The main thing is each kid needs to be on a team where he/she is learning and involved in the team. Being "the worst" on the team isn't good for confidence or development.
> 
> I've always thought for best development, being on a team where the kid is above average on the team is great. Kid can be integral part of the team but still have a few kids better that can challenge him/her. Of course in practice, on a team, not everyone can be above average (mathematically impossible... like how 100% of us believe we are above average drivers... 50% of you are wrong! )


My dd had one coach where he did what he said and he still pissed off parents for getting cut.  he did it fair though.  He first started with a small roster of 16 kids.  He gave all kids a half during the season and during all tournaments, even the big ones.  He would also do a evaluation half way so you could get a feel where your player is at.  Is was the coaches opinion but that's all that should matter.  He said the reason for equal play at younger ages is to be fair and be able to tell parent your kid got a chance and did not meet MY standard of what I am looking for for next season.  State Cup was played to win and you could see the writing on the wall.  All tryouts came after the season.  If you didnt play much at State Cup, you were best to look for another team because the coach was bringing in fresh faces that he wants.  He did it the best, moo and was always honest, even when it hurt the ego of the rich parents


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Dec 9, 2021)

crush said:


> My dd had one coach where he did what he said and he still pissed off parents for getting cut.  he did it fair though.  He first started with a small roster of 16 kids.  He gave all kids a half during the season and during all tournaments, even the big ones.  He would also do a evaluation half way so you could get a feel where your player is at.  Is was the coaches opinion but that's all that should matter.  He said the reason for equal play at younger ages is to be fair and be able to tell parent your kid got a chance and did not meet MY standard of what I am looking for for next season.  State Cup was played to win and you could see the writing on the wall.  All tryouts came after the season.  If you didnt play much at State Cup, you were best to look for another team because the coach was bringing in fresh faces that he wants.  He did it the best, moo and was always honest, even when it hurt the ego of the rich parents


How does that work now with Youngers where tryouts are happening RIGHT NOW... and State Cup games go into late Feb/early March..?

I believe in future years SoCal League is trying to implement a tryout window for the clubs.. but it's a bit of a timeline mess this year. 

You need to be trying out now if you want to change teams... and get verbal commitments and hope that it still stands in Feb... 

I can see that really hurting the fringe players on a team who didn't try out... and didn't see the writing on the wall... and come March, be surprised.

I really like the idea of a "progress report" for the kid mid-season. And a notice in Nov/Dec that the kid is not going to stay on the current team... that way kids can accept the demotion or try out on some new teams if they wish. 

I don't like how the clubs don't tell you anything... and then parents/kids try out with other clubs in secret... and it's all hush hush...


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Dec 9, 2021)

watfly said:


> Size is often a determining factor which is kind of the American way.  Size vs soccer IQ, most coaches are going to choose size as they believe they can teach soccer IQ, which really couldn't be farther from the truth.  It's actually easier to improve a player's speed than it is their IQ.  The old axiom that "you can't teach speed" is only partially true.  IMHO soccer IQ is what really sets players apart as they get older (but that is a biased opinion).


Couldn't agree more. You can't be faster than a ball. I really enjoy watching matches with smart soccer players. Recently watched a YouTube video of Thomas Mueller and his ability to be always at the right place at the right time and make the right passes...


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## crush (Dec 9, 2021)

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> How does that work now with Youngers where tryouts are happening RIGHT NOW... and State Cup games go into late Feb/early March..?
> 
> I believe in future years SoCal League is trying to implement a tryout window for the clubs.. but it's a bit of a timeline mess this year.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry nothing has changed for the better.  I think its worse now.  It's a complete mess and not good for the customer or the one doing all the hard work.  The winners are easy to spot.  We need serious regulations and rules of engagement.  My kid is aging out soon.  I'm always willing to share my experience with those who want real change.  I get emails from all the clubs and their having tryouts for 4 year olds now for 12 month soccer development.


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## BIGD (Dec 9, 2021)

This is a story I shared with my kids early in our journey into competitive sports:

_"In 2001, 13-year-old Stephen Curry’s AAU basketball team lost a big game. “We lost badly, and I played worse,” he writes on the Players’ Tribune. “It really felt like a wake-up call … that I just wasn’t good enough.”

It was that night, in a Holiday Inn Express in Tennessee, that his mom gave him a memorable piece of advice.

She said something along the lines of: “NO ONE gets to write your story but you,” Curry, now 30, recalls. “Not some scouts. Not some tournament. Not these other kids, who might do this better or that better. … None of those people, and none of those things, gets to be the author of your story. Just you. So think real hard about it."_


The point is coaches are just someone hired to do a job.  Some are good at their job, some are not that good at their job.  One coach might think your kid is a top player, another coach might not.  There is so much other BS that goes into coaches decisions: pressure to win, parent politics, economics, etc. * If your kid is not playing for a coach that values them as a player, go find a coach that does.  *

Top teams should be mostly filled with highly competitive, committed, coachable players that have future potential, not just current potential.  The majority of coaches we have had would prefer this and do try to do that but the external pressures do not always give them that ability. 

I'd take a hard working competitive player that is highly coachable over a more "developed" player that only works hard when they are being yelled at any day.   So would my kids.  The worst thing is driving to LA for a match and half the team are "mailing it in".


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## Eagle33 (Dec 9, 2021)

Messi>CR7 said:


> It's the same way in real life.  It's much easier to get a big raise and a bigger title from your competitor than a promotion from within.


Bingo!


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## Grace T. (Dec 9, 2021)

BIGD said:


> This is a story I shared with my kids early in our journey into competitive sports:
> 
> _"In 2001, 13-year-old Stephen Curry’s AAU basketball team lost a big game. “We lost badly, and I played worse,” he writes on the Players’ Tribune. “It really felt like a wake-up call … that I just wasn’t good enough.”
> 
> ...


the problem, as you imply, is not the coaches.  Most coaches are good people just trying to do the best job they can.  the problem is that the system requires them to bring in the win.  Teams that lose get demoted, parents leave to go elsewhere, coaches lose their teams and get fired.  Teams that get promoted take the best players, win the trophies, attract the big spenders. It's easier to recruit a kid that's already developed at whatever level your team is playing at (which means that kid is usually playing down a level from where they should be, unless you are already playing at the highest academy flight), than to take the years it takes to develop them (years which you may not have anyways if the team explodes or the kids leave).


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## crush (Dec 9, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> Bingo!


I worked for a company that gave their hand away on how to get a big fat raise and I scored big time.  I then taught others the secret as well.  I went to my asshole boss ((I say this now only because he favored the ladies only and we figured out why after he quit or got whacked)) for a raise a few times and he gave me a bull crap reason why I didnt deserve more salary, more commission and more spiffs for being a top door knocker for the company and a damn good at that.  I took more no's then anybody in the company.  The fact was, he was jealous that my W2 was bigger then his W2 and he didnt want me to have an even bigger one.  Total punk sat behind his desk barking out orders all day (("how many business cards did you get today")).  So one day I took a call from a head hunter of a competitor.  It was insane how much more I could make and any fool would be a fool not to take it.  I took it.  Oh my gosh.  My boss man became so nice and rolled red carpet that he was hiding from me the whole fucking time.  I told him to pound sand and it was too late and next time roll the goods out when I'm there.  truth be told, he was hogging all the "bonus $$" for his girl friends.  The real boss loved me and called me after I quit and had me over to his house.  Talk about red carpet treatment.  I got promotion to come back and lead the office that the asshole got fired at. True story and one of my all time fun times in life.  He was a true Elitist from Road Island.


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## GoldenGate (Dec 9, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> the problem, as you imply, is not the coaches.  Most coaches are good people just trying to do the best job they can.  the problem is that the system requires them to bring in the win.  Teams that lose get demoted, parents leave to go elsewhere, coaches lose their teams and get fired.  Teams that get promoted take the best players, win the trophies, attract the big spenders. It's easier to recruit a kid that's already developed at whatever level your team is playing at (which means that kid is usually playing down a level from where they should be, unless you are already playing at the highest academy flight), than to take the years it takes to develop them (years which you may not have anyways if the team explodes or the kids leave).


The problem is always the parents.  Parents who want consistent, high level training but don't want to pay what it costs.  Parents who want their kid consistently playing the best competition where the college coaches are watching, but don't want to pay what it costs to travel to play there or for the tournament.  Parents who expect their kid's coach to win every game but also get the best and most consistent long term training although those two things are inconsistent. Parents who demand that club coaches do whatever they want, despite constant club hopping and bashing the very people whom they expect to help them. Parents who get upset that their kid's club coach is talking to college coaches about anyone on the team besides their own kid on their own timeline. Parents who are upset that their kid isn't getting playing time at a college showcase because they told the coach that their kid is not going to play in college. Parents who are upset that the best kids on the team do what is best for themselves instead of what is best for their kid. Parents who keep blaming "the system" or anyone other than themselves when they aren't getting the unreasonable things that they want.  Parents who are upset that college coaches are recruiting other people's kids "too early".  Parents who are obsessed with their kid playing college (or pro) soccer while their kid is in middle school, instead of focusing on making them the best kid they can be. Honestly, if you are going to use the term "it is unfair" in a sentence complaining about kiddie soccer, the problem is you.


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## watfly (Dec 9, 2021)

Personally I think the primary problem is that most coaches are poor at communicating and managing expectations and many parents have unrealistic expectations.  That combination tends to result in poor outcomes for the player.


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## crush (Dec 9, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> *The problem is always the parents. *


That's like me saying, "The problem is always the wife."  Let's try and start over Coach.


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## Brav520 (Dec 9, 2021)

crush said:


> I'm so sorry nothing has changed for the better.  I think its worse now.  It's a complete mess and not good for the customer or the one doing all the hard work.  The winners are easy to spot.  We need serious regulations and rules of engagement.  My kid is aging out soon.  I'm always willing to share my experience with those who want real change.  I get emails from all the clubs and their having tryouts for 4 year olds now for 12 month soccer development.


yeah , the 4 year olds are hilarious having just gone through this with mine . 1/2 the kids were crying in a parents lap, climbing the fence , or just flat out refusing to go back on the field

but, these clubs would not be having 2017 birth year teams if there were not customers for this


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## crush (Dec 9, 2021)

Brav520 said:


> yeah , the 4 year olds are hilarious having just gone through this with mine . 1/2 the kids were crying in a parents lap, climbing the fence , or just flat out refusing to go back on the field
> 
> but, these clubs would not be having 2017 birth year teams if there were not customers for this


I would have had my dd out there, i won't lie.  I got her out at 5 years old for AYSO.  Moved up to Rec at 6 and then got recruited by every club in Temecula at 7  My dd team was undefeated in AYSO. I coached the rec team and we got killed. It was co-ed and I got tricked into coaching. I told the head guy that if he needed any help with set up and he looks at me and and says, "we need a coach." Like many have said, you dont have to be on a winning team to get recruited by the scouts


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## Brav520 (Dec 9, 2021)

crush said:


> I would have had my dd out there, i won't lie.  I got her out at 5 years old for AYSO.  Moved up to Rec at 6 and then got recruited by every club in Temecula at 7  My dd team was undefeated in AYSO. I coached the rec team and we got killed. It was co-ed and I got tricked into coaching. I told the head guy that if he needed any help with set up and he looks at me and and says, "we need a coach." Like many have said, you dont have to be on a winning team to get recruited by the scouts


yeah this was basically 4 year olds play some fun games then break out into 3v3

there was a mini-Messi out there . So that’s who the 2017 surf team is for

I did the AYSO coaching with my daughter for a season, I enjoyed it , but I was so worried about parents feeling like I was favoring my daughter that I think I subbed her out more than any other player on the team. I also got annoyed at this one coach who insisted on having throw ins with 5 year olds instead of just kicking the ball back in. You have any idea how often the ball is out of bounds in a 5 year old game lol?


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## crush (Dec 9, 2021)

Brav520 said:


> yeah this was basically 4 year olds play some fun games then break out into 3v3
> 
> there was a mini-Messi out there . So that’s who the 2017 surf team is for
> 
> I did the AYSO coaching with my daughter for a season, I enjoyed it , but I was so worried about parents feeling like I was favoring my daughter that I think I subbed her out more than any other player on the team. I also got annoyed at this one coach who insisted on having throw ins with 5 year olds instead of just kicking the ball back in. You have any idea how often the ball is out of bounds in a 5 year old game lol?


Oh boy, you just made me laugh....lol.  My team was the last team put together.  I had a little boy named CJ who had these big glasses and could barely run and was afraid of the ball.  Then I had a special needs girl who would go full close line of the other teams players.  She was a great kid but did not like it when someone took the ball away from her.  My dd was still trying to figure out the great game and towards the end of the season, a big time coach from Arsenal South emailed me and the rest is history.  I will say I had to go up against the top team and Mr. Dad Coach.  This guy was a smartass and thought he knew the game better then the other dads.  His team was stacked!  We had to play his team twice and twice it was over before the first 5 minutes. He showed mercy after 10-0.  What got under my skin and my ego was when he told me he could run one of our practices to help us improve.  Well, the second time we played them we play super hard and let the girl go all out and I taught CJ that the ball was from an alien planet and dude went crazy.  We still lost.  Coach dad told me to get my players under control and I just smiled and we told the kids to play harder.  Dude pulled his kids off the field because the girl on our team was going nuts.  This is true story.  I told the guy to relax and stop being so intense and he got all mad.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Dec 9, 2021)

It's such a mental and emotional rollercoaster for most kids. It's easier to get demoted when they are very young.  
Whey my little girl was 7 she was  demoted from a low level flight 2 team to a flight 3 team that was just forming. She was sad but at that age they just wanted to play. We found a great coach that focused on her footwork.   Now she is on a flight 1 team and guesting with the ECRL team.     Lesson Learned: I will not move her up unless she is dominating at her current level to avoid bench play and demotions in the future.


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Dec 9, 2021)

crush said:


> "The problem is always the wife."


Isn't it tho?? 




(jk dear wife, I love you )


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Dec 9, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> Honestly, if you are going to use the term "it is unfair" in a sentence complaining about kiddie soccer, the problem is you.


All is fair in love and basketball.. I mean soccer!


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## Jamisfoes (Dec 10, 2021)

My kid attended a tryout with a big club. Some 20-30 new kids were there. After day one, they announced they will take every kid that showed up. Cha-ching. We will take their money first then worry about where to put them. Parents are not that stupid.


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## crush (Dec 10, 2021)

Jamisfoes said:


> My kid attended a tryout with a big club. Some 20-30 new kids were there. After day one, they announced they will take every kid that showed up. Cha-ching. We will take their money first then worry about where to put them. Parents are not that stupid.


"We have good news girls, you all made the club.  Welcome to the family."


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## Eagle33 (Dec 10, 2021)

Jamisfoes said:


> My kid attended a tryout with a big club. Some 20-30 new kids were there. After day one, they announced they will take every kid that showed up. Cha-ching. We will take their money first then worry about where to put them. Parents are not that stupid.


It is sad, but many parents are that stupid, specially the ones with the first child playing soccer. The excitement that their child made a big club is all they need at that moment. I've had a conversation with a parent like this in the past and it went like this:

-my kid went to a tryout at (insert the name here) and have been offered a spot, we are so excited!
-what level team?
-don't know
-who is the coach?
-don't know....wait a second, not sure why we didn't ask about that
-still considering the spot?
-not sure anymore.....


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## Brav520 (Dec 10, 2021)

Are you paying the same amount of money for say Surf”s 3rd and 4th team that you would be for the F1 team? This would be for the Ulittle age groups


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Dec 10, 2021)

Jamisfoes said:


> My kid attended a tryout with a big club. Some 20-30 new kids were there. After day one, they announced they will take every kid that showed up. Cha-ching. We will take their money first then worry about where to put them. Parents are not that stupid.


Liverpool?


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## watfly (Dec 10, 2021)

Jamisfoes said:


> My kid attended a tryout with a big club. Some 20-30 new kids were there. After day one, they announced they will take every kid that showed up. Cha-ching. We will take their money first then worry about where to put them. Parents are not that stupid.


That's why some clubs go 7 teams deep at certain age groups.


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## Jamisfoes (Dec 10, 2021)

I was chatting with a parent. Their kid has offers from two clubs and they are thinking about playing for both clubs.


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## crush (Dec 10, 2021)

Jamisfoes said:


> I was chatting with a parent. Their kid has offers from two clubs and they are thinking about playing for both clubs.


It might be a smart move.  Cover your bets.  My pal's kid loved his new coach and was all excited but then the new coach bailed before he was coach and now the new coach of this new team is full of players that this new coach is bringing.  He had another offer but went all in because he bought into the brand and not reality.  It sucks and dad is not happy


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## GoldenGate (Dec 10, 2021)

Jamisfoes said:


> My kid attended a tryout with a big club. Some 20-30 new kids were there. After day one, they announced they will take every kid that showed up. Cha-ching. We will take their money first then worry about where to put them. Parents are not that stupid.


I think you need to take a step back and accept the fact that soccer clubs are businesses.  The only stupid parents are the ones who believe there is something wrong with a club making money or trying to bring in enough players to field complete teams.  Sometimes financial success requires making offers to 20-30 kids in order to get the 15 or so that are needed to field a second team.  It is also impossible for a club to know where it is going to put kids, or even whether it will have enough to form a second team at all, until it has determined who is going to accept an offer, so they often rightfully err on the side of caution.   

Honestly, it's pretty nutty that you're upset about the prospect of your kid playing for a club that is financially successful, but by all means feel free to find the shitty unstable ones that are having a hard time filling one roster instead of two. In reality, and we've all seen this 100x, you are really worried because you are worried your kid isn't good enough to make the A team and you don't want to run the risk your kid will end up on the B team. But that's not the club's problem, and shame on you for being upset with a club for trying to to what is best for the kids overall (rather than just yours) by making room for everyone who wants to play soccer.  The soccer landscape is littered with plenty of small clubs that are desperate for players to play on their A team, so go find one of those.


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## Jamisfoes (Dec 10, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> I think you need to take a step back and accept the fact that soccer clubs are businesses.  The only stupid parents are the ones who believe there is something wrong with a club making money or trying to bring in enough players to field complete teams.  Sometimes financial success requires making offers to 20-30 kids in order to get the 15 or so that are needed to field a second team.  It is also impossible for a club to know where it is going to put kids, or even whether it will have enough to form a second team at all, until it has determined who is going to accept an offer, so they often rightfully err on the side of caution.
> 
> Honestly, it's pretty nutty that you're upset about the prospect of your kid playing for a club that is financially successful, but by all means feel free to find the shitty unstable ones that are having a hard time filling one roster instead of two. In reality, and we've all seen this 100x, you are really worried because you are worried your kid isn't good enough to make the A team and you don't want to run the risk your kid will end up on the B team. But that's not the club's problem, and shame on you for being upset with a club for trying to to what is best for the kids overall (rather than just yours) by making room for everyone who wants to play soccer.  The soccer landscape is littered with plenty of small clubs that are desperate for players to play on their A team, so go find one of those.


Yes shame on me for thinking a tryout is for talent identification. If you are taking everybody, don't call it a tryout.


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## crush (Dec 10, 2021)

Jamisfoes said:


> Yes shame on me for thinking a tryout is for talent identification. If you are taking everybody, don't call it a tryout.


Jamis, watch out man.  I see your new and I got your back bro.  This Golden Gate is something else.  He was "End of the Line" and then became "EOTL."  Dom, our head Admin tech and owner of this place banished him from the forum earlier in the year but he came back as GG.  Other aliases he goes by; The Long Game, Espola, Husler the Husker Du and I think maybe Dad4 and Evil Goalie.


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## GoldenGate (Dec 10, 2021)

Jamisfoes said:


> Yes shame on me for thinking a tryout is for talent identification. If you are taking everybody, don't call it a tryout.


I can see you are a really intelligent fellow who isn't fooled by clubs using the term "tryout" as part of their nefarious plot to ruin the future of as many children as possible.  Clearly, they used that term to intentionally dupe people into paying them money in exchange for kids being able to play on a soccer team.  So mean of them. 

Don't try to pretend you're upset about semantics. If you don't think they were evaluating which kids are best suited for the different level teams they are trying to put together, ok, good luck in your future endeavors.  Also don't assume the club knew it was taking everyone at the outset. Like many clubs, they probably decided they had enough kids at tryouts to make a new team work and had enough flexibility as a big club to take all the kids who tried out.   Why are you even angry that a club is finding a spot for everyone who wants to play?  Anyone who isn't a petty selfish douche would look at a club finding a place for everyone who wants to play as a decision that deserves a lot of praise.  Why do you even care that a club is going to field a team of bad soccer players playing bad soccer?  We all know the answer has nothing to do with the noun they selected for their flyer, and everything to do with your lack of confidence that your child will make the top level team and your concern that they  will "get stuck" playing with kids who aren't good enough for you but, in reality, are probably right around your child's actual objective ability level.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Dec 10, 2021)

My younger boys couldnt get into a club around- 2010 to 2011 years  ( 7 to  8 years of age).  Back then I recall that club didnt really start until after 9 or 10 years of age.    It feels like around the year  2014 through now, anyone can get into a club.    I am already seeing announcements for the kids born in 2016 age group.


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## Jamisfoes (Dec 10, 2021)

crush said:


> Jamis, watch out man.  I see your new and I got your back bro.  This Golden Gate is something else.  He was "End of the Line" and then became "EOTL."  Dom, our head Admin tech and owner of this place banished him from the forum earlier in the year but he came back as GG.  Other aliases he goes by; The Long Game, Espola, Husler the Husker Du and I think maybe Dad4 and Evil Goalie.


I'm sure GoldenGate is a really nice fellow in person.


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Dec 10, 2021)

Jamisfoes said:


> I was chatting with a parent. Their kid has offers from two clubs and they are thinking about playing for both clubs.


I'm ashamed to admit that the thought briefly crossed my mind for my kid. Mon/Wed practices for one, Tues/Thurs practices for the other. Perfect!

Then I told myself... "c'mon bro, you're not insane... wake up".


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## Paul Spacey (Dec 10, 2021)

There are always exceptions and learning/improvement is absolutely non-linear but if you really focus on DEVELOPING your players, the need for dropping them to a lower team (or potentially cutting them) is vastly reduced. I know the 'system' doesn't really support this approach of patience and true player development but you don't always have to fit into the system.

Recruitment is of course part of running a team/club but here's an idea; focus on truly developing the kids you have and this will minimize the need for recruitment. Take your eyes off the big W for just a minute and work on helping all of your players to actually improve (the W's will come, trust me). 

One year of really good quality training results in a hell of a lot of improvement; one year of average training results in little more than stagnation and if you just go and pick up players to replace your 'trash', you're perpetuating a failing system that prematurely and unnecessarily spits out way too many kids already.


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## Carlsbad7 (Dec 11, 2021)

Paul Spacey said:


> There are always exceptions and learning/improvement is absolutely non-linear but if you really focus on DEVELOPING your players, the need for dropping them to a lower team (or potentially cutting them) is vastly reduced. I know the 'system' doesn't really support this approach of patience and true player development but you don't always have to fit into the system.
> 
> Recruitment is of course part of running a team/club but here's an idea; focus on truly developing the kids you have and this will minimize the need for recruitment. Take your eyes off the big W for just a minute and work on helping all of your players to actually improve (the W's will come, trust me).
> 
> One year of really good quality training results in a hell of a lot of improvement; one year of average training results in little more than stagnation and if you just go and pick up players to replace your 'trash', you're perpetuating a failing system that prematurely and unnecessarily spits out way too many kids already.


Kind of true...

Theres a couple of things you cant teach. The first is Soccer IQ. Some players are just better at understanding the game. The second is size. You cant teach a kid to be taller. (A third intangible is speed. But players can get faster by working out + weights.)

At the highest levels of competition intangibles are what coaches are looking for.

Does any of this apply to youth soccer? I'm not sure. It's obvious that the bigger faster kids have an advantage. However I've seem teams of super fast individuals get ripped apart by smaller well coached "posession" teams.


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## Grace T. (Dec 11, 2021)

Paul Spacey said:


> There are always exceptions and learning/improvement is absolutely non-linear but if you really focus on DEVELOPING your players, the need for dropping them to a lower team (or potentially cutting them) is vastly reduced. I know the 'system' doesn't really support this approach of patience and true player development but you don't always have to fit into the system.
> 
> Recruitment is of course part of running a team/club but here's an idea; focus on truly developing the kids you have and this will minimize the need for recruitment. Take your eyes off the big W for just a minute and work on helping all of your players to actually improve (the W's will come, trust me).
> 
> One year of really good quality training results in a hell of a lot of improvement; one year of average training results in little more than stagnation and if you just go and pick up players to replace your 'trash', you're perpetuating a failing system that prematurely and unnecessarily spits out way too many kids already.


There are two issues with this, though, and they both have to do with the system:

-its really tough for most coaches to get it done on a year if all there is is two practices a week and that’s all players are doing.  There’s just so much to cover in touch and pass and spacing that how do you get to shooting let alone set pieces or drilling getting it out from the back or (god forbid since its always the last priority) teaching the gk what you want on handed distribution.  Every year you get at least some new crew which means effectively having to go over everything again.  The good coaches with a good knowledge are emphasizing passing drills in multiple figures. The bad ones or those that have players with poor outside work ethic are running them during practice.

-it may be enough to stop the team from getting relegated but it’s not going to be enough to get them promoted and with pro/rel that’s everything.  The next year you lose your best players.  The winning teams get to replace the weaker ones with the better ones. If you do really bad you lose your team because it imploded. The system placed the emphasis on the win, not long term development. What’s worse is some leagues like coast are pyramids which means there is little room at the top and it’s a full all out war to get there and stay there

as I said the other day my son and I watched an old team he was on that had at one point won the state cup and had risen to silver elite in coast. It was surprising to see how little has changed. The ball was always bouncing in the air, the plan was always the through ball or to have a winger outrun the defender but it was always up in the air, it was always try to shoot it above the keepers head (and they are getting to the age they can repulse almost any ball over them with a tip and are beginning to extension dive). It works well enough still (the keeper they were up against though was one who played high and held his team in there because he was coming out to knock those aerial balls…if they hadn’t messed up 2 back passes the other team would have won 4-2 but the learning how to play it from the back cost them the game for a draw) but the kids are still playing exactly as 9v9 and because they are successful most parents are satisfied and don’t know any better.


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## Soccermom18 (Dec 11, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Kind of true...
> 
> Theres a couple of things you cant teach. The first is Soccer IQ. Some players are just better at understanding the game. The second is size. You cant teach a kid to be taller. (A third intangible is speed. But players can get faster by working out + weights.)
> 
> ...


To add to things you can’t teach, you can’t teach heart.  There are some kids that do not want to be out there but their parents just don’t see it.  Or they do and don’t care.


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Dec 11, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Kind of true...
> 
> Theres a couple of things you cant teach. The first is Soccer IQ. Some players are just better at understanding the game. The second is size. You cant teach a kid to be taller. (A third intangible is speed. But players can get faster by working out + weights.)
> 
> ...


Can Soccer IQ be taught... or at least learning of that aspect be fostered?

Asking because my kid's not going to be very tall or very fast...  

Not asking much.. just want the Soccer IQ and execution of Xavi or Iniesta... lol


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## Red card (Dec 11, 2021)

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> Can Soccer IQ be taught... or at least learning of that aspect be fostered?
> 
> Asking because my kid's not going to be very tall or very fast...
> 
> Not asking much.. just want the Soccer IQ and execution of Xavi or Iniesta... lol


If they watch a lot of soccer and play a lot of soccer. If they have a favorite team and players. It comes from the love love love of the game and always asking questions


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## Brav520 (Dec 11, 2021)

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> Can Soccer IQ be taught... or at least learning of that aspect be fostered?
> 
> Asking because my kid's not going to be very tall or very fast...
> 
> Not asking much.. just want the Soccer IQ and execution of Xavi or Iniesta... lol


I usually have some type of soccer on on the weekends , while my daughter isn’t sitting there watching it intently, and she certainly doesn’t have a wager on the game like her dad , she will pop up and ask questions. That’s probably something you could do, they will take a peak in between playing with their fidgets


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## Jar!23 (Dec 12, 2021)

My kid is moving up to another team partly in search for a more committed group.  Players that go to practice on a regular consistent basis, shows up to games consistently and early, doesn’t miss games because of another sport or  social activity.  A team where the coach and manager doesn’t need to hound the parents about attendance and communication.  If our current club has more numbers, I would have liked some of his current teammates to be moved down since they obviously don’t have the same commitment level.  There are some rare exceptions where a player just needs another season or year to develop and play more instead of sitting on the bench.

Regarding soccer IQ, I don’t know how that can be taught.  On every team you can easily spot the kids who knows what they are doing.  They stand out even if they are slight and gets bodied off the ball.  Then there are the kids who, even after years of playing, still just kick the ball randomly and the coach has to constantly remind them of their positioning.  In the end, the club landscape is so vast that there is a olace for everyone that wants to play.  There is always time for player improvement and if the kid doesn’t give up, the player should be constantly improving and that’s the goal.


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## crush (Dec 12, 2021)

You cant teach speed or size, especially for females.  The goal for a girl is to Not lose their speed and just keep it.  The female will go through many changes as a teen a dad just has no clue about.  IQ is God given, moo.


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## Messi>CR7 (Dec 12, 2021)

Of course soccer IQ can be taught.  The amount of improvement obviously varies depending on the method and each individual.

A simple example.  Every kid starts out playing FIFA at the beginner's level and can dribble through the entire defense to score effortlessly.  Set the difficult level to professional or higher, he/she will quickly figure out in less than ten minutes that they need to pass the ball.  Otherwise, you lose possession every single time.

Anecdotal conclusion:  Boys' game is more possession based because boys waste more time playing video games (or watch more pro games) than girls.


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## crush (Dec 12, 2021)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Of course soccer IQ can be taught.  The amount of improvement obviously varies depending on the method and each individual.
> 
> A simple example.  Every kid starts out playing FIFA at the beginner's level and can dribble through the entire defense to score effortlessly.  Set the difficult level to professional or higher, he/she will quickly figure out in less than ten minutes that they need to pass the ball.  Otherwise, you lose possession every single time.
> 
> Anecdotal conclusion:  Boys' game is more possession based because boys waste more time playing video games (or watch more pro games) than girls.


I disagree Messi regarding IQ.  IQ is what your born with, naught taught.  I had to teach myself because peolle.thought I was dumb, moron and idiot because I was deaf as baby. No one taught me.  I have a very hi IQ.  Born with it I swear.  IQ is mental and knowing where to be ahead of everyone else.  Insticks bro cant be taught.


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## Larzby (Dec 12, 2021)

Brav520 said:


> yeah this was basically 4 year olds play some fun games then break out into 3v3
> 
> there was a mini-Messi out there . So that’s who the 2017 surf team is for
> 
> I did the AYSO coaching with my daughter for a season, I enjoyed it , but I was so worried about parents feeling like I was favoring my daughter that I think I subbed her out more than any other player on the team. I also got annoyed at this one coach who insisted on having throw ins with 5 year olds instead of just kicking the ball back in. You have any idea how often the ball is out of bounds in a 5 year old game lol?


My kids were in AYSO the last 10 years, before moving to club, and my experience has been that the parents in AYSO are psychotic on the sidelines than any club game I've been to.  Same with the coaches.  The lower the level of soccer, the more insane the parents/coaches are, in my experience, not the other way around.  But perhaps we just got lucky with a good club team with friendly, normal parents...not sure.


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## Larzby (Dec 12, 2021)

crush said:


> Oh boy, you just made me laugh....lol.  My team was the last team put together.  I had a little boy named CJ who had these big glasses and could barely run and was afraid of the ball.  Then I had a special needs girl who would go full close line of the other teams players.  She was a great kid but did not like it when someone took the ball away from her.  My dd was still trying to figure out the great game and towards the end of the season, a big time coach from Arsenal South emailed me and the rest is history.  I will say I had to go up against the top team and Mr. Dad Coach.  This guy was a smartass and thought he knew the game better then the other dads.  His team was stacked!  We had to play his team twice and twice it was over before the first 5 minutes. He showed mercy after 10-0.  What got under my skin and my ego was when he told me he could run one of our practices to help us improve.  Well, the second time we played them we play super hard and let the girl go all out and I taught CJ that the ball was from an alien planet and dude went crazy.  We still lost.  Coach dad told me to get my players under control and I just smiled and we told the kids to play harder.  Dude pulled his kids off the field because the girl on our team was going nuts.  This is true story.  I told the guy to relax and stop being so intense and he got all mad.


Cush, I think I may have coached against that guy!  One coach told me - after a 10-1 thumping - that he had "let" my team score in the 4th quarter.  Gee, dude, thanks for letting me know - - and half our team overheard him.  Classy!


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## cali_sb (Dec 13, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> It's such a mental and emotional rollercoaster for most kids. It's easier to get demoted when they are very young.
> Whey my little girl was 7 she was  demoted from a low level flight 2 team to a flight 3 team that was just forming. She was sad but at that age they just wanted to play. We found a great coach that focused on her footwork.   Now she is on a flight 1 team and guesting with the ECRL team.     Lesson Learned: I will not move her up unless she is dominating at her current level to avoid bench play and demotions in the future.


Hi SoccerFan4Life,

This just happened to my 8 year old daugther. I told her this afternoon. She was sad and had some tears. But its for the best.  It was not much of surprise for me, but I was worried about how she would feel.  She is upset, but happy she can still play and will make the best out of the new opportunity next season. Thank you for your advice.


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## Carlsbad7 (Dec 13, 2021)

cali_sb said:


> Hi SoccerFan4Life,
> 
> This just happened to my 8 year old daugther. I told her this afternoon. She was sad and had some tears. But its for the best.  It was not much of surprise for me, but I was worried about how she would feel.  She is upset, but happy she can still play and will make the best out of the new opportunity next season. Thank you for your advice.


Happened to my kid at age 6.

- The next year the coach that demoted her begged us to come back because my kid tore up Flight 2.
- The next year after that coach was demoted from Flight 1 to Flight 3.
- Today that same coach is begging for any team to coach because nobody wants to play for her

You never know...


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## SoccerFan4Life (Dec 14, 2021)

cali_sb said:


> Hi SoccerFan4Life,
> 
> This just happened to my 8 year old daugther. I told her this afternoon. She was sad and had some tears. But its for the best.  It was not much of surprise for me, but I was worried about how she would feel.  She is upset, but happy she can still play and will make the best out of the new opportunity next season. Thank you for your advice.


That's great.  As parents we know that things will get better for our kids as long as they are willing to put the extra hours moving forward. 

If you can find an indoor league (futsal would be ideal), go for it.   The amount of touches that your kid will get will help her develop quickly.    Brazilian kid are not playing in OC Park fields at a young age.  They are all playing futsal in the streets or in small cement fields.    In my area US5 in Norwalk is the real deal.  My 12 year old dd has been recently playing against 10-12 year old boys.   She has improved significantly thanks to indoor.


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## 4kidssake (Dec 14, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> That's great.  As parents we know that things will get better for our kids as long as they are willing to put the extra hours moving forward.
> 
> If you can find an indoor league (futsal would be ideal), go for it.   The amount of touches that your kid will get will help her develop quickly.    Brazilian kid are not playing in OC Park fields at a young age.  They are all playing futsal in the streets or in small cement fields.    In my area US5 in Norwalk is the real deal.  My 12 year old dd has been recently playing against 10-12 year old boys.   She has improved significantly thanks to indoor.


Wow


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