# Great Park



## Frank (Sep 14, 2017)

Wow, the new fields there are beautiful.  Size, grass, everything.   I left there this past weekend wishing all the soccer complexes were this nice.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 14, 2017)

Does anyone has a map of new fields or know the numbering?


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## Frank (Sep 14, 2017)

Eagle33 said:


> Does anyone has a map of new fields or know the numbering?


I don't, but I saw that 1-7 are now in the back (new area by stadium) and 8+ is the older area used in prior seasons


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## bababooey (Sep 14, 2017)

I hope this works:


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## espola (Sep 14, 2017)

How much do they charge for parking?


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## Lambchop (Sep 14, 2017)

Frank said:


> Wow, the new fields there are beautiful.  Size, grass, everything.   I left there this past weekend wishing all the soccer complexes were this nice.[/Q
> .
> 
> 
> ...


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## JackZ (Sep 14, 2017)

espola said:


> How much do they charge for parking?


They don't. And it's not dirt!


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## Mystery Train (Sep 14, 2017)

Yeah, my kid has had a couple tournaments there, and the one this summer was fantastic.  The grass was perfect, the layout was convenient, parking easy . . . and the drive a hell of a lot better than Norco or Oceanside!  If I was still a TA, I'd book every tournament I could that plays there.


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## mirage (Sep 14, 2017)

Our younger kid practices at one of the new fields at the OCGP and we were there for the opening.  Its a fantastic venue.  Just wait until they finish the amphitheater and all the baseball and softball fields.  It will be one of the best venue in the west coast.

Last night, my wife told me that the stadium was hosting a private company function and that the field was being used for a corporate soccer game for the employee party - nice!

Just think, if we can hold the National Cup finals in the stadium.  What a thrill that would be for the kids...


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## Sheriff Joe (Sep 14, 2017)

JackZ said:


> They don't. And it's not dirt!


That could change though.


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## Frank (Sep 14, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> That could change though.


Likely will change, however there are so many entrances in to it that it would be difficult.  Also, I heard as part of building and city permits they were specifically disallowed from doing so.  However, that is hearsay.


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## mirage (Sep 14, 2017)

Frank said:


> Likely will change, however there are so many entrances in to it that it would be difficult.  Also, I heard as part of building and city permits they were specifically disallowed from doing so.  However, that is hearsay.


Its developed to be multipurpose facility.  Its a part of offset between the OC-Irvine-Five Points/Lennar master development agreement.

The park is supposed to be accessible to everyone in OC.  While anything is possible, its highly unlikely that they will charge for parking.  Its not up to hosting club to charge but the park operator.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 14, 2017)

The only reason traffic flows free in and out of Great park, it's because parking is free. 
Once they stat charging for parking, it will become the same clusterf...k as Silverlakes, Oceanside and Polo Fields.


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## mirage (Sep 14, 2017)

Eagle33 said:


> The only reason traffic flows free in and out of Great park, it's because parking is free.
> Once they stat charging for parking, it will become the same clusterf...k as Silverlakes, Oceanside and Polo Fields.


Clearly you're tainted and carry baggage from other experiences...

Let it go...  Just be and enjoy the free parking


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## Sheriff Joe (Sep 14, 2017)

mirage said:


> Its developed to be multipurpose facility.  Its a part of offset between the OC-Irvine-Five Points/Lennar master development agreement.
> 
> The park is supposed to be accessible to everyone in OC.  While anything is possible, its highly unlikely that they will charge for parking.  Its not up to hosting club to charge but the park operator.


The Irvine Co has the coin, what a great city they built.


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## mirage (Sep 14, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> The Irvine Co has the coin, what a great city they built.


 They are involved but not the driver....


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## MWN (Sep 14, 2017)

Frank said:


> Wow, the new fields there are beautiful.  Size, grass, everything.   I left there this past weekend wishing all the soccer complexes were this nice.


It's my understanding that a developer stepped up to build the park in exchange for permission to develop additional housing (quid pro quo deal).  The City is or will be in charge of maintaining.   If the City doesn't charge parking then expect the beautiful fields to slowly come under disrepair due to overuse or the price of rental to skyrocket.  Since the price to use this public amenity will not skyrocket, just maintaining the fields to "competitive" standards is going to cost a pretty penny.  We'll see what happens, but I suspect these fields are going to start looking like every other field at every other City of Irvine park, nice, but not on par with the top facilities.


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## mirage (Sep 14, 2017)

MWN said:


> It's my understanding that a developer stepped up to build the park in exchange for permission to develop additional housing (quid pro quo deal).  The City is or will be in charge of maintaining......


The land was turned over to the state/county from federal government as a part of base closure act.  Five Points (FP) is a special LLC formed by Lennar to develop large scale projects using private-public partnership.  Lennar has others, like the project to develop Candlestick Point in SF using a similar subsidiary organzation.

When I was at the Irivne City Council meeting few years ago when they took up a vote to allow Five Points to develop the land around old El Toro MC Base. (The arrangement as you've described that FP pays for the park in exchange for being able to develop the surrounding communities in Irvine.)  

The OCGP does not have all the restrictions of Irvine parks in that there is no requirement for certain percentage of Irvine residents, in order to gain access.  You just have to be OC resident, as the park actually belongs to the county and not the city.  It is maintained by the city under the county contract, I'v been told.

Since OCGP is a showcase place for county and they view it, much like how Grand Park is viewed in Westfield IN, its highly unlikely that the park will get run down or won't be maintained.  In fact, if you look at the existing old fields (used to be 1~4, but now 11~14), they are in great shape most of the year.  Those fields have been open for several years under the free parking.

So when you say "top facilities", where do you mean?  Are you comparing to the Grand Park or Disney/ESPN?  I've been to both and the grass is nicer at OCGP.  Turf comes and goes depending on the usage but its the replacement cycle that one cares about.  I cannot think of any facility in SoCal that's better, when you think of the entire venue.

Last, I am not an Irvine resident or City Council meeting troll.  The club my older kid played for at the time, the head of the club's brother is/was the lead lawyer for FP that negotiated the deal.  The club had a big to do event for support passing of the phase that we're now enjoying.


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## SocalPapa (Sep 14, 2017)

Two things keep it from being a dream venue for me:  1) Not all the new fields had a readily accessible area nearby for the players to warm up before their games (see photo), and 2) the field my daughter played on seemed sloped enough at the edges to result in more out of bounds plays than normal (great for drainage so I suppose it's a trade off).  Overall I was thrilled with it though, especially the quality of the grass, the backstop nets, ease of parking and clean accessible bathrooms!


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## SocalPapa (Sep 14, 2017)

Eagle33 said:


> Does anyone has a map of new fields or know the numbering?


2-7 are the new fields shown in the picture I posted above.  Pretty sure 15-25 aren't finished yet.


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## MWN (Sep 14, 2017)

mirage said:


> The land was turned over to the state/county from federal government as a part of base closure act.  Five Points (FP) is a special LLC formed by Lennar to develop large scale projects using private-public partnership.  Lennar has others, like the project to develop Candlestick Point in SF using a similar subsidiary organzation.
> 
> When I was at the Irivne City Council meeting few years ago when they took up a vote to allow Five Points to develop the land around old El Toro MC Base. (The arrangement as you've described that FP pays for the park in exchange for being able to develop the surrounding communities in Irvine.)
> 
> ...


Based on this article, it appears the City of Irvine and not the County of Orange is responsible for maintaining the Park: http://www.ocregister.com/2017/08/05/game-on-irvines-great-park-opens-first-part-of-new-sports-park-which-is-twice-the-size-of-disneyland/

Regardless, we have seen this type of project (albeit on a smaller scale) time and time again.  So here is what I believe based on experience with developments.

The developer comes in and builds the thing and maintains the park/facility until the developer has built out the last of the homes and vacates.  At which time the City/County/HOA takes over.  The new party taking over is given this beautiful thing.  A year or two passes and the City/County (in this case) looks at its budget and says ... whooaaaa.  Why are we aerating and verti-cutting the fields every month?  The field manager says "Great question, you see, the developer installed these fields and the lay out of the lights prevents us from moving the fields so we need to aerate the Referee areas, the center, the boxes, etc.; we also need to top dress the fields and sod the heavily damaged areas (boxes and center areas)"  The City/County says "Ok, but our budget is $2m for a field crew, equipment, sand, fertilizer, etc."  The field manager says ... but, but, but ... I need $2m just for remediation work this year to repair the damage due to use, plus my normal budget of $750k for my 6 person crew, equipment, etc..  The finance guy at the County say ... not my problem, you have $2m, make it work.

Before you know it ... the fields are looking a little neglected.  Fields get shut down to rest, because the City/County budget doesn't allocate enough.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, just pointing out that in the State of California, there isn't a single County/City park project that is able to maintain quality fields.  The Great Park is a great thing, and fills a need in OC, but the pessimist in me doesn't think it will sustain itself once the City steps in to maintain.

With regard to your other question, when I refer to top facilities, I'm referring to the privately run facilities (Silverlakes, Polo Fields, and Galway Downs).  None of these appear to have the total amenities as Great Park, but all of these facilities will likely put 2x more money into maintaining field quality than a City/County run park.  That said, its speculation on my part ... time will tell.


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## timbuck (Sep 14, 2017)

MWN said:


> Based on this article, it appears the City of Irvine and not the County of Orange is responsible for maintaining the Park: http://www.ocregister.com/2017/08/05/game-on-irvines-great-park-opens-first-part-of-new-sports-park-which-is-twice-the-size-of-disneyland/
> 
> Regardless, we have seen this type of project (albeit on a smaller scale) time and time again.  So here is what I believe based on experience with developments.
> 
> ...


Are you referring to Lake Forest Sports Park?  
Those grass fields were nice for a season but are horrible now (at least they were a few months ago. Haven't been there lately).


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## espola (Sep 15, 2017)

So far, it seems, the sports facilities are being built up more or less as proposed.  Some may remember the City of Oceanside published plans for El Corazon to compare with the actual result on the ground, or may remember when the Del Mar Polo Grounds were only used for polo.


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## mirage (Sep 15, 2017)

MWN said:


> .........when I refer to top facilities, I'm referring to the privately run facilities (Silverlakes, Polo Fields, and Galway Downs).  None of these appear to have the total amenities as Great Park, but all of these facilities will likely put 2x more money into maintaining field quality than a City/County run park.  That said, its speculation on my part ... time will tell.


Those fields are NOT top facilities by any definition.  Silverlakes come close but its very incomplete and limited scope.  The restaurant is a great idea since getting in and out of there is a nightmare.  Hot/cold and windy with little to no accommodation for shade other than central tented area. Some of the parking is still dirt.

As for Polo fields, well, my older kid plays there, and practices 1 day/wk so I know quite a bit about it. No lights for soccer (there are for polo towards the back of the fields), dirt access road is so bad that it will shake the fillings loose and the car is aways covered in dust or mud.  Did I mention the disgusting portapotty that hardly ever get cleaned?  How is this a top facility?  Don't even start on getting in and out of there.  Now that a new 30yr lease was signed, maybe there will be a tenant improvement? I know, its funny, right....

Galaways is much worse than Birdsall nearby.  We had the unfortunate experience of having to play National Cup there.  The only thing that makes Galaway better than Lancaster is its not as far.  That's it.  Again, unimproved single dirt parking @ $10 - wtf!

The fact that these are privately run does not make it better.  While your point about the public funding ultimately controlling the outcome of OCGP or any public park is a valid point, but to assume the demise already is premature and invalid.

But everyone is entitled to their own bias and clearly you and I disagree on this - fine.  I'm just happy that at least our younger kid gets to take advantage of the currently great facility.  By the time it runs down, if it does, our kids will be long gone from there and running their own lives.


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## MWN (Sep 15, 2017)

mirage said:


> Those fields are NOT top facilities by any definition.  Silverlakes come close but its very incomplete and limited scope.  The restaurant is a great idea since getting in and out of there is a nightmare.  Hot/cold and windy with little to no accommodation for shade other than central tented area. Some of the parking is still dirt.
> 
> As for Polo fields, well, my older kid plays there, and practices 1 day/wk so I know quite a bit about it. No lights for soccer (there are for polo towards the back of the fields), dirt access road is so bad that it will shake the fillings loose and the car is aways covered in dust or mud.  Did I mention the disgusting portapotty that hardly ever get cleaned?  How is this a top facility?  Don't even start on getting in and out of there.  Now that a new 30yr lease was signed, maybe there will be a tenant improvement? I know, its funny, right....
> 
> ...


Ahhh, I see where we are not on the same page.  For me its the grass, grass, grass.  Dirt roads, parking, restaurant, etc. are so far down on my list that its almost inconsequential (to me).  Its important to you.  I get it.


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## El Clasico (Sep 15, 2017)

Who is the snake oil salesman telling us that Galaway is a first class facility? He either works there or is a stakeholder.  There are literally hundreds of city parks that are much better than that place. Sure, it has multiple fields but the place is not only a dump, but inconvenient to get to, unless of course, like the previous poster mentioned, it comes down to Galaway or Lancaster. More dining options in Temecula.

One can see that the owners are attempting to convert it into a nicer facility but they have a long way to go and I am not sure that they know what they are doing organizationally.  Even the restaurant sucks.


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## mirage (Sep 15, 2017)

MWN said:


> Ahhh, I see where we are not on the same page.  For me its the grass, grass, grass.  Dirt roads, parking, restaurant, etc. are so far down on my list that its almost inconsequential (to me).  Its important to you.  I get it.


You did say top facilities, not top grass.

Still, the grass at OCGP is better than three you've mentioned.  Have you been?   Especially the new fields?


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## timbuck (Sep 15, 2017)

Most of the field in Irvine (not Great Park.  The city) are the best grass around town.  But if there is a hint of precipitation, they are shut down.
Aside from being sensitive to rain, does anyone know if Irvine does anything else special for their fields?  Do they limit practice time to a lower number of teams?  Rotate fields often?  Close them for standard maintenance during the season?  Use a special blend of grass? Do something special with watering?

Our local fields are great for about 2 weeks of each season.  But after being practiced on 5 days a week from 4pm-8pm by 3-5 teams at a time, they get destroyed.  Especially in the goal area.  I think we also have incompetent maintenance people.  I've walked onto a field for an 8am game and the fields are soaked from being over watered.  I've also seen a maintenance truck drive over the saturated field leaving a nice rut for several weeks.


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## transplant (Sep 15, 2017)

I don't know the full scheme on field management at OCGP - but when I was there last week for my kids practices one of the newer fields was signed as closed in the evening.  It was being used by PATs practice the week earlier.  My assumption was that it was closed for rotation.  I can say on the nights I am there not every bit of field space is being used.  I hope it is an active field management policy.

I must say - the new grass field are very nice right now.


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## transplant (Sep 15, 2017)

The other thing that is going to be really interesting is when girls start the tryout circuit again.  There will be no hiding in OC!  From what I have seen it is Slammers, Pats, Blues, WCFC, Strikers all within a few fields of each other (and I am sure I missed some).  With all the DA, DPL, ECNL noise we know there will be continued shifts this next season.  The parent, player, and coach tension will be high!


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## timbuck (Sep 15, 2017)

transplant said:


> The other thing that is going to be really interesting is when girls start the tryout circuit again.  There will be no hiding in OC!  From what I have seen it is Slammers, Pats, Blues, WCFC, Strikers all within a few fields of each other (and I am sure I missed some).  With all the DA, DPL, ECNL noise we know there will be continued shifts this next season.  The parent, player, and coach tension will be high!


Nah.  You'll see kids and parents in disguise.  Lots of soccer moms walking around with hats and fake mustaches!!!


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## charlie murphy (Sep 15, 2017)

so the old fields are 08 - 20 right.  just to orient myself . The facility looks  large and well set up. It also looks like the area is mixed use with some space not defined on the map ( the reality may be different) . I think we went to farmer's market in N2 once after a game.  So with so much going on and so many entry and exit points it seems traffic control would be a challenge. if a toll booth were set up.  As they say "if there is a will, there's a way", but  lets hope that with the current set up paid parking will be too much of a logistical problem. we can dream right. by the time we play there hope the turf is still in


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## charlie murphy (Sep 15, 2017)

mirage said:


> Those fields are NOT top facilities by any definition.  Silverlakes come close but its very incomplete and limited scope.  The restaurant is a great idea since getting in and out of there is a nightmare.  Hot/cold and windy with little to no accommodation for shade other than central tented area. Some of the parking is still dirt.
> 
> As for Polo fields, well, my older kid plays there, and practices 1 day/wk so I know quite a bit about it. No lights for soccer (there are for polo towards the back of the fields), dirt access road is so bad that it will shake the fillings loose and the car is aways covered in dust or mud.  Did I mention the disgusting portapotty that hardly ever get cleaned?  How is this a top facility?  Don't even start on getting in and out of there.  Now that a new 30yr lease was signed, maybe there will be a tenant improvement? I know, its funny, right....
> 
> ...


At silver lakes you forgot to mention the BEER they serve beer inside (under the tent)  and outside ( Bar , trailer thing)   . I not sure if this is brilliant or stupid. But if anyone wants to sit down and discuss lets to it over a cold one. Just hold your cup so it doesn't blow it over.


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## Sheriff Joe (Sep 15, 2017)

charlie murphy said:


> At silver lakes you forgot to mention the BEER they serve beer inside (under the tent)  and outside ( Bar , trailer thing)   . I not sure if this is brilliant or stupid. But if anyone wants to sit down and discuss lets to it over a cold one. Just hold your cup so it doesn't blow it over.


I thought the sand bags took care of that?


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## Eagle33 (Sep 15, 2017)

charlie murphy said:


> At silver lakes you forgot to mention the BEER they serve beer inside (under the tent)  and outside ( Bar , trailer thing)   . I not sure if this is brilliant or stupid. But if anyone wants to sit down and discuss lets to it over a cold one. Just hold your cup so it doesn't blow it over.


At least those weights inside portapotties holding them from tumbling over


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## zebrafish (Sep 17, 2017)

MWN said:


> Before you know it ... the fields are looking a little neglected.  Fields get shut down to rest, because the City/County budget doesn't allocate enough.


The City of Irvine does a really good job, IMO, of maintaining very high quality soccer fields. 

As a comparison, some of the soccer fields in Irvine are maintained by the school district and not the city-- these, in general, are in poor shape. 

Not sure how/why, but the Irvine City maintenance does a really strong job. Hopefully, they keep the Great Park fields up to the standard of the rest of the city parks.


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