# Why do clubs need fundraisers?



## timbuck (May 23, 2017)

If you need more money, just charge us more.  Or let kids that need some help paying do some fundraising activities.  

My dds club (like many others) has a golf ball drop.  This $150 fee is added to our club cost. I guess we are supposed to sell these balls to friends and family.  We'll just eat the cost and hope one of our balls wins. 
And they also have an annual golf tournament.  Each team is "required" to have a foursome (at about $180 per player) and sell a sponsorship package totalling $2,000.   And the team needs a "golf tournament" coordinator that is responsible for these things.  
I don't enjoy golf much these days.  And I spend my work life in sales, so I'm not interested in hustling to find someone to throw $2k at our club so a boys u16 team can fund a travel tournament. 

When did these fundraisers become necessary?


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## Frank (May 23, 2017)

I would say typically most clubs have unforeseen costs and shortages.  Also, my club did this type of fundraising and uses these funds for goals, and other things like that so those costs are not passed on to every player and costs can be kept somewhat reasonable.


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## MWN (May 23, 2017)

Those Clubs with DA and ECNL have additional funding needs that the typical club doesn't due to the fact that US Soccer wants all DA to be fully funded (including travel) and ECNL often relies heavily on scholarships.  In addition, DA and ECNL have greater game costs with requirements to have 1 athletic trainer available at each DA game, locker rooms, etc.  Does your club have a DA or ECNL program?


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## mahrez (May 23, 2017)

Robbing Peter to pay Paul?


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## PLSAP (May 23, 2017)

Play for Legends?


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## PLSAP (May 23, 2017)

But also, you can think about it like this:

You may just want them to add onto the cost, but other parents may not. And I understand the point that those specific players can fundraise on their own, however, think on also a director's point of view: The directors are going to want to be able to say that they are doing all they can to let your child play for as little cost as possible. There is also side things and unexpected trips that that money could go to (Regionals, an extra tournament)


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## Flipthrow (May 23, 2017)

What compensation does your DOC receive? been at clubs were fundraisers went to tangible assets like lights and goals and have been at clubs where the Doc was living large. Volunteered for one and just wrote the check for the other.


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## timbuck (May 23, 2017)

What's site where you can look up a 990?


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## espola (May 23, 2017)

timbuck said:


> What's site where you can look up a 990?


guidestar.org


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## timbuck (May 24, 2017)

I don't have an issue with whatever money a DOC or coach makes.  My issue is that they should just charge us for whatever they need to in order to function.  
I also hate hotel "resort fees" and paying for parking at a hotel. Just bundle it all in. 
Don't disguise the cost for my kid to play in a fundraiser. 
Or-  give whatever my team raises directly to my team. Cover a tournament. But everyone a warm up.  Give us a team tent.  Send the team manager to a spa day for having to deal with parents.  
Or do something that is more reasonable than a golf tournament.


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## Eagle33 (May 24, 2017)

timbuck said:


> I don't have an issue with whatever money a DOC or coach makes.  My issue is that they should just charge us for whatever they need to in order to function.
> I also hate hotel "resort fees" and paying for parking at a hotel. Just bundle it all in.
> Don't disguise the cost for my kid to play in a fundraiser.
> Or-  give whatever my team raises directly to my team. Cover a tournament. But everyone a warm up.  Give us a team tent.  Send the team manager to a spa day for having to deal with parents.
> Or do something that is more reasonable than a golf tournament.


What's wrong with a Golf tournament? 
Many clubs is doing it and it's the easiest fundraiser to do. All it requires is to send your friends/colleagues/people you know a friendly e-mail or post it on your social media and you will be surprised how many people may be willing to help you with that.
Many people (like myself) just prefer to write checks and it's nothing wrong with that either. 

Few clubs doing regular soccer tournaments for their fundraisers, which requires parents to actually do a lot of volunteering work with very little return. Golf tournament requires very little work with a lot more return.

On another note, if you think that your club is doing a fundraiser and other clubs don't  - you are mistaken.


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## Justafan (May 24, 2017)

timbuck said:


> I don't have an issue with whatever money a DOC or coach makes.  My issue is that they should just charge us for whatever they need to in order to function.
> I also hate hotel "resort fees" and paying for parking at a hotel. Just bundle it all in.
> Don't disguise the cost for my kid to play in a fundraiser.
> Or-  give whatever my team raises directly to my team. Cover a tournament. But everyone a warm up.  Give us a team tent.  Send the team manager to a spa day for having to deal with parents.
> Or do something that is more reasonable than a golf tournament.





timbuck said:


> I don't have an issue with whatever money a DOC or coach makes.  My issue is that they should just charge us for whatever they need to in order to function.
> I also hate hotel "resort fees" and paying for parking at a hotel. Just bundle it all in.
> Don't disguise the cost for my kid to play in a fundraiser.
> Or-  give whatever my team raises directly to my team. Cover a tournament. But everyone a warm up.  Give us a team tent.  Send the team manager to a spa day for having to deal with parents.
> Or do something that is more reasonable than a golf tournament.


Amen, brother!  Somebody get Timbuck a drink.


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## TangoCity (May 25, 2017)

Eagle33 said:


> What's wrong with a Golf tournament?


Golf tournaments can make a decent amount of money compared to fundraisers like selling wrapping paper or candy bars or doing raffles.  Mandatory fundraisers where NONE of the money goes to the teams and all of the money goes ??? are what I have a problem with.  The golf tournament for the club based off of your monicker is a sham.  They require each team to get a foursome of golfers at $200 per player ($800 per foresome), they also require each team to put together a gift basket (auction item) valued at a minimum of $500 and they require each team to get a tee sponsor at $250 a pop.  If any of these items are not fulfilled by the team.... guess what...... the money comes out of the team account.  Golfing is an elite sport, a lot of middle to lower class families don't play golf or know anyone that does.  Not only that but each team is required to have a minimum number of parents working at the golf tournament and guess what... it is always on a working day (Monday).  So if your team is unable to find any golfers you are docked $800 which is easily one tournament.  And where does the money go?  LOL - Nobody knows.  The DOC will tell the managers that they made money and asked how much, oh an email will go out to the managers and let you know.  No email ever goes out.  The money is likely paying the $140k per year salary of the DOC and to pay scholarships for superstar older players that the club doesn't want to lose, NONE of it goes to the teams.

I've seen teams from clubs pull off a golf tournament on an individual basis where they team organizes and runs the tournament and the team gets all the money.  Hats off to the teams that can do that.  Hats on to the clubs that run the sham tournaments.


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## rainbow_unicorn (May 25, 2017)

timbuck said:


> And they also have an annual golf tournament.  Each team is "required" to have a foursome (at about $180 per player) and sell a sponsorship package totalling $2,000.


That sucks...I would raise hell if we had to do that.  Can you rally the parents together and demand transparency as to where the funds go?


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## Joe Diaz (May 25, 2017)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> That sucks...I would raise hell if we had to do that.  Can you rally the parents together and demand transparency as to where the funds go?


Sure,  like they are going to do that.  Have you ever heard of any club being transparent about their $?  No.  It's never going to happen.


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## timbuck (May 25, 2017)

Heck-  I don't even care about the transparency.  Hide money.  Embezzle money. Buy your mistress a Range Rover with club funds.  But just tell me the cost up front in 1 easy to digest amount. 
Don't charge me a club fee, a golf ball drop fee and then force me to get involved in a golf tournament.


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## espola (May 26, 2017)

Joe Diaz said:


> Sure,  like they are going to do that.  Have you ever heard of any club being transparent about their $?  No.  It's never going to happen.


I have been associated with three clubs closely enough to get a glimpse of their "transparency", and know some of the leadership of two others as personal friends.  I didn't see any problems with any of them.


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## Joe Diaz (May 26, 2017)

espola said:


> I have been associated with three clubs closely enough to get a glimpse of their "transparency", and know some of the leadership of two others as personal friends.  I didn't see any problems with any of them.


Non-profits are for profit.  Come on.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (May 26, 2017)

If you want to look up your clubs finances: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/
How much they breakdown revenue & expenses  varies by club.


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## Surfref (May 26, 2017)

timbuck said:


> If you need more money, just charge us more.  Or let kids that need some help paying do some fundraising activities.
> 
> My dds club (like many others) has a golf ball drop.  This $150 fee is added to our club cost. I guess we are supposed to sell these balls to friends and family.  We'll just eat the cost and hope one of our balls wins.
> And they also have an annual golf tournament.  Each team is "required" to have a foursome (at about $180 per player) and sell a sponsorship package totalling $2,000.   And the team needs a "golf tournament" coordinator that is responsible for these things.
> ...


Are these fundraisers included in the initial contract you signed with the club?  If it is not in the contract, than don't pay it.  I have a friend who is an attorney and refused to sell raffle tickets for his DD club fundraiser.  The club said his DD playing time would be reduced if she did not sell the $200 in raffle tickets.  The attorney pointed out to them that their contract specified reasons why playing time could be decreased and that failing to sell raffle tickets was not one of those reasons.  The club caved in to the attorney.  When the other player's parents found out, they refused to sell the tickets.  This trickled down to other teams on the club.  The next year the fundraiser was included in the contract with a buyout option.


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## MWN (May 26, 2017)

Surfref said:


> Are these fundraisers included in the initial contract you signed with the club?  If it is not in the contract, than don't pay it.  I have a friend who is an attorney and refused to sell raffle tickets for his DD club fundraiser.  The club said his DD playing time would be reduced if she did not sell the $200 in raffle tickets.  The attorney pointed out to them that their contract specified reasons why playing time could be decreased and that failing to sell raffle tickets was not one of those reasons.  The club caved in to the attorney.  When the other player's parents found out, they refused to sell the tickets.  This trickled down to other teams on the club.  The next year the fundraiser was included in the contract with a buyout option.


On this note, I know of a club that requires raffle ticket sales and will apply whatever tickets are sold to next years dues.   Purchasing raffle tickets is a tax deduction, whereas paying Club dues for your child is not.  A few parents have been known to purchase the equivalent of next year's dues in raffle tickets, which represents the equivalent of a 20 - 30% discount when they apply their tax deduction.


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## Joe Diaz (May 26, 2017)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> If you want to look up your clubs finances: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/
> How much they breakdown revenue & expenses  varies by club.


Thank you!


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## espola (May 26, 2017)

Joe Diaz said:


> Non-profits are for profit.  Come on.


Not the clubs I have seen.  Maybe you just need to look for a better one.


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## espola (May 26, 2017)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> If you want to look up your clubs finances: https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/
> How much they breakdown revenue & expenses  varies by club.


That will get you the IRS 990 forms.  To get a better picture, you should look into the club a little harder, in their bylaws or constitution, and how they actually  conduct business.  Key points - how do they select their Directors?  Who is eligible to vote on club business?  When was the last independent audit performed?  How often do the Directors meet?  Are the meetings open to the public?  To voting members?

The California Secretary of State supposedly has a lot of this information for non-profits chartered in California.


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## coachrefparent (May 26, 2017)

Or, just find a club you and your kids like, that seems to offer a fair price and overall experience for your child's needs, doesn't do fundraisers if you don't like them, etc., and have fun watching them play soccer. 

Seems like a better plan for a better life than threatening your kids' club with lawsuits over the language of the "contract", bitching about fundraisers, and just overall always being a stressed-out, confrontational, and all around pain in the a$$.


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## timbuck (May 26, 2017)

Surfref said:


> Are these fundraisers included in the initial contract you signed with the club?  If it is not in the contract, than don't pay it.  I have a friend who is an attorney and refused to sell raffle tickets for his DD club fundraiser.  The club said his DD playing time would be reduced if she did not sell the $200 in raffle tickets.  The attorney pointed out to them that their contract specified reasons why playing time could be decreased and that failing to sell raffle tickets was not one of those reasons.  The club caved in to the attorney.  When the other player's parents found out, they refused to sell the tickets.  This trickled down to other teams on the club.  The next year the fundraiser was included in the contract with a buyout option.


Just looked at the player agreement.  The golf balls are included in the agreement, but there is nothing else with regard to additional funds needing to be raised.  
I'm just hoping someone on the team owns a business they are willing to put up on a teebox and that some of the parents like to play golf and this becomes a non-issue.


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## Overlap (May 26, 2017)

timbuck said:


> If you need more money, just charge us more.  Or let kids that need some help paying do some fundraising activities.
> 
> My dds club (like many others) has a golf ball drop.  This $150 fee is added to our club cost. I guess we are supposed to sell these balls to friends and family.  We'll just eat the cost and hope one of our balls wins.
> And they also have an annual golf tournament.  Each team is "required" to have a foursome (at about $180 per player) and sell a sponsorship package totalling $2,000.   And the team needs a "golf tournament" coordinator that is responsible for these things.
> ...


when the club fees went through the roof, started 2 years ago and now it's catching up in a big way...


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## Mom Taxi (May 26, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Send the team manager to a spa day for having to deal with parents.


Yes, please!!!


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## timbuck (May 26, 2017)

I have an idea -  I'll sell a hole sponsorship to a neighboring club.  I bet they'd love to get their logo on the 16th tee box.  I think they even get to speak at the banquet for 5 minutes with a the top level sponsor.  Sure beats having to hound parents on the sidelines after a game.


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## zebrafish (May 26, 2017)

timbuck said:


> I don't have an issue with whatever money a DOC or coach makes.  My issue is that they should just charge us for whatever they need to in order to function.


I think you should.

The DOC in my club makes over 200K/yr in salary. It goes well beyond *need*. The golf "fundraiser" is another fleecing of parents to make people on both sides of that deal (golf club, soccer club) more money. I'd imagine the DOC gets a few free rounds in return for doing it at the golf course in question. The golf club rakes in a bunch of fees. The soccer club rakes in a bunch of money.

Then the club can tell prospective parents that the club's annual fee is lower than the actual cost in order to compete with the club down the street for that parent's check.


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## Joe Diaz (May 26, 2017)

espola said:


> That will get you the IRS 990 forms.  To get a better picture, you should look into the club a little harder, in their bylaws or constitution, and how they actually  conduct business.  Key points - how do they select their Directors?  Who is eligible to vote on club business?  When was the last independent audit performed?  How often do the Directors meet?  Are the meetings open to the public?  To voting members?
> 
> The California Secretary of State supposedly has a lot of this information for non-profits chartered in California.


Thank you!


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