# Tryout season is here.....



## timbuck (Oct 12, 2021)

We are 6 games into the fall season and clubs are starting to advertise for "next season". (What does that even mean anymore?)
With State Cup going into the Spring season and rosters being frozen- What are clubs going to do here?
This is the first one I've seen.  I'm sure the rest will follow soon.


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## Brav520 (Oct 12, 2021)

timbuck said:


> We are 6 games into the fall season and clubs are starting to advertise for "next season". (What does that even mean anymore?)
> With State Cup going into the Spring season and rosters being frozen- What are clubs going to do here?
> This is the first one I've seen.  I'm sure the rest will follow soon.
> 
> View attachment 11856


tryouts during the week of Thanksgiving ?


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## Brav520 (Oct 12, 2021)

I don’t see how you suspend tryouts until after State Cup

aren’t most club fees for a calendar year? How are the vast majority of clubs going float their expenses for 3-4 months

my guess is most are going fall within that 6-7 week break from early December to mid Jan.

state cup knock out rounds should be interesting


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## lafalafa (Oct 12, 2021)

Trying out for your $$ or check book.

Fall tryouts? In late Nov ? I dunno winter break is likely soon after those tryouts so they can sit on that new money until after the new year or something?

Doesn't the socal league finish the fall part around 3rd week in November so don't get how you can have tryouts after and call that fall.  

Don't fall for the money grab, scammers?


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## NewUser27 (Oct 13, 2021)

were already having some kids at our practices showing up, so its happening. whether you advertise or not


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## watfly (Oct 13, 2021)

Broken record, but tryouts are for the benefit of the club, not the player.  They're mostly to fill the lower teams for $$ purposes.  When you attend an open tryout you give the power to the Club to assign your kid to a coach and team.  Plus, open tryouts are a terrible way to identify a players ability.  Don't do it.  Instead identify teams and coaches you would want your child to play for.  The vast majority of coaches are open to having a new kid practice with a team.   Don't know any coaches or teams, ask around.  Parents are more than willing to give their opinion.

Contact the coach(s) way ahead of tryouts to join a practice(s).  The coach will get a good idea regarding your players abilities, and you will get a good idea of whether the coach and team are a good fit for your kid.  Some clubs require existing players to tryout, but otherwise, I would avoid tryouts all together (other than for may be for the youngest new players).  They are the worst way to get on a team.

Just be prepared if word gets around to your current coach and club that your practicing with another team.  There are couple clubs I know that will expel you immediately if they find out, but that is typically only an issue for the top level teams.   Most coaches just get irritated, which is ironic since they wouldn't hesitate to bring a new kid to replace your kid.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 13, 2021)

I recommend renting a really overpriced flashy car + hire someone 6'8" tall to walk your kid up to tryouts and pick up them up after. ;-)


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## Jar!23 (Oct 13, 2021)

watfly said:


> Broken record, but tryouts are for the benefit of the club, not the player.  They're mostly to fill the lower teams for $$ purposes.  When you attend an open tryout you give the power to the Club to assign your kid to a coach and team.  Plus, open tryouts are a terrible way to identify a players ability.  Don't do it.  Instead identify teams and coaches you would want your child to play for.  The vast majority of coaches are open to having a new kid practice with a team.   Don't know any coaches or teams, ask around.  Parents are more than willing to give their opinion.
> 
> Contact the coach(s) way ahead of tryouts to join a practice(s).  The coach will get a good idea regarding your players abilities, and you will get a good idea of whether the coach and team are a good fit for your kid.  Some clubs require existing players to tryout, but otherwise, I would avoid tryouts all together (other than for may be for the youngest new players).  They are the worst way to get on a team.
> 
> Just be prepared if word gets around to your current coach and club that your practicing with another team.  There are couple clubs I know that will expel you immediately if they find out, but that is typically only an issue for the top level teams.   Most coaches just get irritated, which is ironic since they wouldn't hesitate to bring a new kid to replace your kid.


Really can’t avoid your current coach/team finding out right?  At least in Norcal, the open tryout window is only once a year.  Any time outside of that window, you need DOC permission in order to tryout/practice with another team.  Clubs are very cautious as they don’t want to be accused of recruiting.  Upcoming tryouts next month that clubs are advertising about are geared towards rec players want to play competitive for the first time.


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## watfly (Oct 13, 2021)

Jar!23 said:


> At least in Norcal, the open tryout window is only once a year.  Any time outside of that window, you need DOC permission in order to tryout/practice with another team.  Clubs are very cautious as they don’t want to be accused of recruiting.


Not remotely the case in SoCal.  Recruiting, direct or indirect, is going on 12 months a year at least at the highest levels.  On the boys side in ECNL and MLS Next there is always a bump in player movement after the start of the season as players (or more so parents) become disillusioned with their teams and/or playing time.  Do some clubs and leagues have an "ask permission" first policy? Yep, but its largely ignored.  Clubs don't ask your  permission before they add a kid that puts your kid to the bench, even after the the roster was "finalized" weeks or months before.  Some clubs will play hardball and refuse to release your kid's players' card, ironically its usually the same clubs that have no problem taking a player from another club during the season.


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## Jar!23 (Oct 13, 2021)

watfly said:


> Not remotely the case in SoCal.  Recruiting, direct or indirect, is going on 12 months a year at least at the highest levels.  On the boys side in ECNL and MLS Next there is always a bump in player movement after the start of the season as players (or more so parents) become disillusioned with their teams and/or playing time.  Do some clubs and leagues have an "ask permission" first policy? Yep, but its largely ignored.  Clubs don't ask your  permission before they add a kid that puts your kid to the bench, even after the the roster was "finalized" weeks or months before.  Some clubs will play hardball and refuse to release your kid's players' card, ironically its usually the same clubs that have no problem taking a player from another club during the season.


I see.  I guess my comment is specific to Norcal Premier and maybe whatever is the equivalent in Socal.


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## timbuck (Oct 13, 2021)

Brav520 said:


> I don’t see how you suspend tryouts until after State Cup
> 
> aren’t most club fees for a calendar year? How are the vast majority of clubs going float their expenses for 3-4 months
> 
> ...


I think most fees/contracts have typically said "your commitment ends when our team is done with State Cup."
But teams have always added new players for the season as soon as the Fall season ends.  And the State Cup team is 60% returning players and 40% players that will be leaving as fast as they can once they get knocked out of State Cup.
This has been the case when the fall season ended in November.
But now we have league games going into the following calendar year:
SoCal League has younger age groups wrapping the season at the end of January.  Older Age groups play the "season" until late March.

Maybe these "tryouts" are really only geared towards trying to get players from AYSO/Rec leagues as soon as their fall seasons end.


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## crush (Oct 13, 2021)

Tryouts these days are really tryouts for the parents and how to stroke egos and so much more.  I was never approached in person or over the phone about coming out to tryouts.  I was in the camp where my kid was invited to the other teams "practice" and pissed off parents in the process.  My dd Doc was super cool and just asked to never miss a practice or a game with current team but always gave a blessing for any girl who was interested in playing a match on da pitch.  I love you Tad for being honest and allowing girls to be free and independent   His model was by far the best model.  He never had tryouts for new players.  Pick up games, yes, but never a tryout.  Thanks for the two years you gave my dd coach


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## JumboJack (Oct 13, 2021)

When the SCSL schedule came out and I saw that the "Fall" season doesn't end until the end of March I was dumfounded.


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## lafalafa (Oct 13, 2021)

JumboJack said:


> When the SCSL schedule came out and I saw that the "Fall" season doesn't end until the end of March I was dumfounded.


70% of the schedule ends in Nov but let's bring them back for the remaining 30% between Jan and March depending on the AG or something like that.

Dragging this out just to say what?


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## JumboJack (Oct 13, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> 70% of the schedule ends in Nov but let's bring them back for the remaining 30% between Jan and March depending on the AG or something like that.
> 
> Dragging this out just to say what?


I’m really scratching my head about this.


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## Soccermom18 (Oct 14, 2021)

What is tryout season?  Seems like tryouts never end here… 

I see new kids practicing with the team all the time and if there is a quality player, they’ll get some steep discount to leave their current club.


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## Jar!23 (Oct 20, 2021)

Asking about past experiences here.  What are some things players and parents should be looking out for during tryouts/practices?  It is typical to ask a lot of questions?  How communicative are the clubs/coaches in giving information before you decide? Playing time is important so I would think it is ok to ask to how many kids are already on the roster.  I guess the best way to look at that is to show up to a game and watch right?


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## lafalafa (Oct 20, 2021)

"Open" training advertising starting to heat up, they new way to "tryout"

Yeah ask your player what there opinions are of any club &  team prior to attending.   They will know unless it's some out of areas type deal.

Coaching and how the players are utilizied is normally obviously at any games being watched so that's a good start.


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## crush (Oct 20, 2021)

Jar!23 said:


> Asking about past experiences here.  What are some things players and parents should be looking out for during tryouts/practices?  It is typical to ask a lot of questions?  How communicative are the clubs/coaches in giving information before you decide? Playing time is important so I would think it is ok to ask to how many kids are already on the roster.  I guess the best way to look at that is to show up to a game and watch right?


Look out for liars Jar.  I was fooled big time by a trickster with an accent and was even threaten with "STFU or Else" when I wanted leave The Family. This soccer family stuff is weird so watch out.  Look for one year at a time kind of development.  Good luck man


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## Jar!23 (Oct 20, 2021)

How do I look out for liars?  Looking to send my kid to a few practices.  The ideal situation would be to find a team that needs players (for example, routinely only has 1 or 2 subs for a 11v11 game).  I'm realistic and not thinking that my kid will displace a starter that is doing well and I wouldn't expect that.  Current team will be going through some reorganization and club has too small of a player pool to compete, that's why I'm looking.


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## timbuck (Oct 20, 2021)

I think the key thing this time of year is to be VERY patient.
Some clubs will straight up lie to you.  But many of them don't have answers yet to the questions you want answered.
They don't know who is leaving. They probably don't know who the coach will be next year.  They certainly have no idea how much playing time your kid will get unless they only have 9 on the roster for an 11v11 team.
Shop around.  Take your time.  Make sure the level is the right one for your kid.
A Flight 2 kid on a higher flight team won't learn much by sitting on the bench and her teammates not being inviting to her.  A top talent kid on a team with a bunch of "Flower pickers" will be bored silly.


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## crush (Oct 20, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I think the key thing this time of year is to be VERY patient.
> Some clubs will straight up lie to you.  But many of them don't have answers yet to the questions you want answered.
> They don't know who is leaving. They probably don't know who the coach will be next year.  They certainly have no idea how much playing time your kid will get unless they only have 9 on the roster for an 11v11 team.
> Shop around.  Take your time.  Make sure the level is the right one for your kid.
> A Flight 2 kid on a higher flight team won't learn much by sitting on the bench and her teammates not being inviting to her.  A top talent kid on a team with a bunch of "Flower pickers" will be bored silly.


Great stuff coach buck   I like helping others avoid the snake pits as well.  Some dads glee when another dad gets bit by a viper.  October tryouts iis gnarly.


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## watfly (Oct 20, 2021)

Jar!23 said:


> How do I look out for liars?  Looking to send my kid to a few practices.  The ideal situation would be to find a team that needs players (for example, routinely only has 1 or 2 subs for a 11v11 game).  I'm realistic and not thinking that my kid will displace a starter that is doing well and I wouldn't expect that.  Current team will be going through some reorganization and club has too small of a player pool to compete, that's why I'm looking.


So difficult to answer.  I've joked that if a coaches lips are moving they're lying.  That's not actually true and its unfair to coaches.  I do take whatever coaches say with a huge grain of salt.  Many coaches will tell you what you want to hear, or what is true at that very moment without looking ahead.  Quite frankly most coaches are not known for their communication skills and consider parents to be a nuisance.  The best way to choose a coach and team is to observe games/practice and try to talk to other parents.  But keep in mind many parents don't know what makes a great coach and oftentimes its comes down to the fit of your kids personality and the personality of the coach/team.

I'm not down on youth soccer, its been great for my son, with ups and downs like anything else.  I just recommend "buyer beware".  It's an interesting industry where they either don't understand or ignore the fact that they are in the customer service business.  So adjust your expectations accordingly.


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## JumboJack (Oct 20, 2021)

If someone is trying out now they are either on a roster right now or are not, right? If they are on a roster unless their current team is willing to release them (unlikely) they can’t really join a new club for a while (not really sure when that time is being that the current SCSL season doesn’t end until March). I’ll be honest, I’m not sure when my DD’s contract ends and don’t have it handy. Could be the  end of State Cup or could be the end of league.


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## watfly (Oct 20, 2021)

toucan said:


> Today, most club players in Southern California are registered through US Soccer.  Previously, most were registered through USYA (Calsouth).  The Socal Soccer League, ECNL and the GA teams are all different gaming leagues, but all use US Soccer as their registar.   CSL uses Calsouth.
> 
> Calsouth's transfer rule is simple:  A player initiates the transfer through Calsouth's online system.  The registrars of the two clubs approve or disapprove.  No club can deny a transfer because of a financial dispute.  In fact, there is almost no way to deny a transfer to a player unless the transfer is requested during the Fall roster-freeze period, which only last for about 3 months of the year.  If the outgoing registrar does not respond to the request, the transfer is granted after a week.
> 
> The Socal Soccer League has taken transfer restriction to a new (and in my opinion, inappropriate) level.  According to their rules, no player can *ever* transfer from one Socal Soccer League team to another without the outgoing DOC's approval.  If a player is not paid "in full," then the DOC can block the transfer.  If there is any dispute about whether the player is paid "in full," then the DOC can block the transfer.  In scholarship cases, the DOC can block the transfer even if the player has paid every penny owed, and can add on additional fees and costs.


Quick clarification...I believe its US Club Soccer, not US Soccer which used to regulate DA.


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## JumboJack (Oct 21, 2021)

toucan said:


> Today, most club players in Southern California are registered through US Soccer.  Previously, most were registered through USYA (Calsouth).  The Socal Soccer League, ECNL and the GA teams are all different gaming leagues, but all use US Soccer as their registar.   CSL uses Calsouth.
> 
> Calsouth's transfer rule is simple:  A player initiates the transfer through Calsouth's online system.  The registrars of the two clubs approve or disapprove.  No club can deny a transfer because of a financial dispute.  In fact, there is almost no way to deny a transfer to a player unless the transfer is requested during the Fall roster-freeze period, which only last for about 3 months of the year.  If the outgoing registrar does not respond to the request, the transfer is granted after a week.
> 
> The Socal Soccer League has taken transfer restriction to a new (and in my opinion, inappropriate) level.  According to their rules, no player can *ever* transfer from one Socal Soccer League team to another without the outgoing DOC's approval.  If a player is not paid "in full," then the DOC can block the transfer.  If there is any dispute about whether the player is paid "in full," then the DOC can block the transfer.  In scholarship cases, the DOC can block the transfer even if the player has paid every penny owed, and can add on additional fees and costs.


All of that begs the question… Why have tryouts right now?


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## lafalafa (Oct 21, 2021)

JumboJack said:


> All of that begs the question… Why have tryouts right now?


$$ trying to find more paying customers
Team or club is floundering 
Existing players are leaving or not available for later in the year for competitions due to other interestes  or commitments.

The convoluted system is place just has people jumping leagues and clubs so they don't have to deal with the gatekeepers or docs.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 21, 2021)

JumboJack said:


> All of that begs the question… Why have tryouts right now?


There's lots of reasons. One I haven't seen mentioned is sometimes parents want to get away from the other parents on the team. Spending week in, week out with people you don't like gets old quick.


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## JumboJack (Oct 21, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> There's lots of reasons. One I haven't seen mentioned is sometimes parents want to get away from the other parents on the team. Spending week in, week out with people you don't like gets old quick.


I get that but wouldn’t you think most kids today are locked into their team for until at least after State Cup ?


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## lafalafa (Oct 21, 2021)

JumboJack said:


> I get that but wouldn’t you think most kids today are locked into their team for until at least after State Cup ?


Individualism before team.

Club loyalty does that exist anymore?

Our youngest was on a u9 team with several of his friends, one of his best buddies didn't show up for the 1st state cup and they where a bit lost at first but rallyed to pull it all together.

Soon as he got home he went to his friends house only to find him not happy at all, turns out his parents made a deal with a rival for next season so they he won't be playing with his current team any longer.   Bummer for him and everyone as his former team rose and the rival pretty much srunk later on.

Our young u9 player vowed never to ever leave a team or consider one until everything is said and done for the current playing season.   Wasn't really mad at his buddy since he knew it was the parents decision and they never even asked him.  They would remain friends all along and eventually get a chance to play together in a couple tournaments which was a good ending for that player but he did miss out on a lot of things like tournaments, travel,  playing in college that all the other player on his U19 team had the opportunity to do so.


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## futboldad1 (Oct 21, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Individualism before team.
> 
> Club loyalty does that exist anymore?
> 
> ...


Nice story and lesson thank you for sharing......Effed up for teammates to leave mid season so glad it worked out best for your DS who stayed....clubs shuttering or families moving cities aside, I think that parents who move their kids more than 2 to 3 times from U12 - U19 are doing their kid's a disservice.....to move a couple times to play at the top MLS Next or ECNL level, or to get away from an abusive or knucklehead coach makes sense...but more moves than that is why some coaches like to call us parent club hoppers and, talking to DD, a lot would be lost from a transient experience......loyalty is a two way street though so if your coach does not believe in your kid (and this needs to be your kid's decision not yours imho) then make the move and enjoy the love of the game no matter the level!


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## watfly (Oct 21, 2021)

JumboJack said:


> I get that but wouldn’t you think most kids today are locked into their team for until at least after State Cup ?


Is State Cup even relevant anymore?  Seems to me, other than for the youngest teams in CSL, that its rather meaningless.


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## Jar!23 (Oct 21, 2021)

My personal opinion is that players should definitely stay until the end of the season.  Norcal’s fall season ends early December (some teams go longer for State Cup depending on the bracket).  Clubs are advertising tryouts now looking for rec players who want to play competitive (AYSO is only in fall) to join for spring. Other comp players need DOC approval to tryout or practice with another club.  

One players on my kid’s team left in the middle of the season.  I thought that was strange.  I guess he (or his parent) thought the situation was so unbearable they didn’t want to stay any longer.  Sometimes that works out better for both sides if the relationship isn’t working.  That particular player wasn’t get as much playing time and ended up going to a lower level team.  Finding the right playing level is definitely key.  My kid’s current club only has one team for his age group.  The difference in skills between the players is pretty noticeable.  Some should be playing rec and some should be moving up.  

I tend to hate the spring season as it seems half the team is playing another sport and splitting time.


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## zebrafish (Nov 10, 2021)

Jar!23 said:


> How do I look out for liars?  Looking to send my kid to a few practices.  The ideal situation would be to find a team that needs players (for example, routinely only has 1 or 2 subs for a 11v11 game).  I'm realistic and not thinking that my kid will displace a starter that is doing well and I wouldn't expect that.  Current team will be going through some reorganization and club has too small of a player pool to compete, that's why I'm looking.


You can't really know how many players will be on a team "next season". The coach may tell you their target number-- but they may or may not adhere to that, and/or be telling you the truth, and/or have the players to fill their target/intended roster number.

Also, a coach may end up with a roster number of 11 players but have 2-3 guest players every match. So, it can be hard to determine.

I've found that going and watching games coached by a potential coach can be really, really insightful. I've done this incognito (when my kid isn't guesting). In my mind, it helps to determine if the coach is a jerk/psychopath, screamer/yeller, joy-sticker, etc. -- all things that you may not be able to see at a practice session or two when they are trying to woo you/your player. This also allows you to see how the team plays (and coach acts) in a competitive environment. Also, talking to parents who have kids on the team can also be helpful.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Nov 10, 2021)

watfly said:


> Is State Cup even relevant anymore?  Seems to me, other than for the youngest teams in CSL, that its rather meaningless.


Outside of those ECNL players, its very relevant for the rest of the teams.  In our age bracket, we have 7 ECRL teams, 1 ECNL, 1 DPL, and 120+ G09 teams from Flight 1 to Flight 3.     Yes, it's relevant for the masses.


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## timbuck (Nov 10, 2021)

Relevant for 8th grade or younger.  Once in HS- it is not.


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## Jar!23 (Nov 10, 2021)

zebrafish said:


> You can't really know how many players will be on a team "next season". The coach may tell you their target number-- but they may or may not adhere to that, and/or be telling you the truth, and/or have the players to fill their target/intended roster number.
> 
> Also, a coach may end up with a roster number of 11 players but have 2-3 guest players every match. So, it can be hard to determine.
> 
> I've found that going and watching games coached by a potential coach can be really, really insightful. I've done this incognito (when my kid isn't guesting). In my mind, it helps to determine if the coach is a jerk/psychopath, screamer/yeller, joy-sticker, etc. -- all things that you may not be able to see at a practice session or two when they are trying to woo you/your player. This also allows you to see how the team plays (and coach acts) in a competitive environment. Also, talking to parents who have kids on the team can also be helpful.


Some teams record and upload their games on YouTube.  A local club close to me does it with some of their teams.  I don’t know why when in my opinion the videos are not flattering to the coach.  Screaming, arguing with the ref, arguing with opposing coaches, loud joystick coaching like crazy, negative comments.  Maybe some parents think that is proactive coaching.


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## watfly (Nov 10, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Outside of those ECNL players, its very relevant for the rest of the teams.  In our age bracket, we have 7 ECRL teams, 1 ECNL, 1 DPL, and 120+ G09 teams from Flight 1 to Flight 3.     Yes, it's relevant for the masses.


Maybe I'm confused.  I thought Cal South State Cup excluded US Club Soccer teams which is the sanctioning body for ECNL/ECRL and So Cal Soccer League, hence why So Cal Soccer League is having its own "State Cup".

I thought CSL was the only league playing under the CalSouth umbrella since Presidio is effectively defunct.  Any decent 2010 and older team playing in CalSouth would be playing in National Cup, not State Cup.  That was my basis for my comment that its rather meaningless except for CSL younger teams.

When I say meaningless, I meant in terms of determining the best teams in the State or SoCal.  I'm sure its meaningful to some kids and parents, but I do question whether too much emphasis is being placed on these "State Cups".  Let's be perfectly honest, as someone else mentioned, these are league cups.


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## watfly (Nov 10, 2021)

Jar!23 said:


> Maybe some parents think that is proactive coaching.


Many do because they are used to other American sports where the coaches have a much bigger role in the game.  My personal opinion is that if the ball is rolling the coaches mouth is shut.  Even better if they only talk to the kids when they are on the sideline.

Good little primer on over-coaching:


			https://dt5602vnjxv0c.cloudfront.net/portals/6082/docs/coachpacket/over%20coaching.pdf


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