# Surf Cup's Fate



## oh canada

Should know tomorrow, but doesn't look promising:

According to the Wednesday, Dec. 2 council meeting agenda, the City’s parks and recreation department will recommend to council to only allow in-state teams, ban spectators, and cancel all field reservations until metrics return to September levels.









						Council to discuss ban on out-of-state teams using Phoenix sports facilities
					

Phoenix City Council could consider canceling field reservations along with banning spectators and out of state teams from using city sports facilities.




					www.azfamily.com


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## GT45

Phoenix City Council *could* consider canceling field reservations along with banning spectators and out of state teams from using city sports facilities.

According to the Wednesday, Dec. 2 council meeting agenda, the City’s parks and recreation department will recommend to council to only allow in-state teams, ban spectators, and cancel all field reservations _*until metrics return to September levels.
_________________*_

Based on the parts in bold, I doubt we know the fate of Surf Cup tomorrow.


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## oh canada

GT45 said:


> Phoenix City Council *could* consider canceling field reservations along with banning spectators and out of state teams from using city sports facilities.
> 
> According to the Wednesday, Dec. 2 council meeting agenda, the City’s parks and recreation department will recommend to council to only allow in-state teams, ban spectators, and cancel all field reservations _*until metrics return to September levels.
> _________________*_
> 
> Based on the parts in bold, I doubt we know the fate of Surf Cup tomorrow.


You think metrics will return to September levels in 4 weeks?  That ain't happening anywhere.


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## kickingandscreaming

oh canada said:


> You think metrics will return to September levels in 4 weeks?  That ain't happening anywhere.


Unlikely if it drops as it did this summer. It would have to be a very fast drop and also have to factor in the time Surf need before the tournament.


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## N00B

kickingandscreaming said:


> Unlikely if it drops as it did this summer. It would have to be a very fast drop and also have to factor in the time Surf need before the tournament.
> 
> View attachment 9557


I agree September numbers are highly unlikely, given the curve, and that doesn’t bode well... If the council considers and votes in favor of that recommendation, then Surf Cup would be done as scheduled.

I’d be very interested in discussing the curve, in the off topic covid section, if it mirrors the Summer curve.  From crafting policies to deal with seasonal respiratory illnesses, with an eye to the impact of partial herd immunity (less brush to burn) in off seasonal periods vs possible preservation of in-season medical capacity when surge is expected... to the ethical considerations of any such policies.


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## kickingandscreaming

N00B said:


> I agree September numbers are highly unlikely, given the curve, and that doesn’t bode well... If the council considers and votes in favor of that recommendation, then Surf Cup would be done as scheduled.
> 
> I’d be very interested in discussing the curve, in the off topic covid section, if it mirrors the Summer curve.  From crafting policies to deal with seasonal respiratory illnesses, with an eye to the impact of partial herd immunity (less brush to burn) in off seasonal periods vs possible preservation of in-season medical capacity when surge is expected... to the ethical considerations of any such policies.


The "new" Good News Thread in off-topic2 is a good spot. There's a bit of that on the thread already. Ask a question, or pose your thoughts.


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## N00B

kickingandscreaming said:


> The "new" Good News Thread in off-topic2 is a good spot. There's a bit of that on the thread already. Ask a question, or pose your thoughts.


Guess I wasn’t following that recreated thread.


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## SoccerQ120

One technicality here is this is the “City of Phoenix” city council.  Reach 11 is in Phoenix, but Scottsdale Sport Park is not.  

Would be interesting to see if Surf Cup organizers look for more space outside of Phoenix city limits: Scottsdale, Mesa, Peoria.

Nothing will compare to Reach11, but...desperate times if you want to hold an event despite Covid concerns.


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## El Clasico

You can send the youngers down to Grande Sports World leaving plenty of fields available in Phoenix metro area, outside of city limits, to host the olders.


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## tjinaz

El Clasico said:


> You can send the youngers down to Grande Sports World leaving plenty of fields available in Phoenix metro area, outside of city limits, to host the olders.


You also have Maricopa down south.  Copper Sky soccer complex.


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## Eagle33

Surf missed golden opportunity to have Surf Cup in UT in the Summer and in AZ in early Fall. 
I completely understand that they were waiting to use SD fields until the last moment but anyone with a little common sense knew it's not happening since NCAA no recruiting rules.
Maybe using all the affiliates they have all over the country would allow them to have Surf Cup in other States? Don't know.
I can bet though that Surf Cup in AZ in January is NOT happening. @crush?


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## happy9

Eagle33 said:


> Surf missed golden opportunity to have Surf Cup in UT in the Summer and in AZ in early Fall.
> I completely understand that they were waiting to use SD fields until the last moment but anyone with a little common sense knew it's not happening since NCAA no recruiting rules.
> Maybe using all the affiliates they have all over the country would allow them to have Surf Cup in other States? Don't know.
> I can bet though that Surf Cup in AZ in January is NOT happening. @crush?


I would have to agree.  There are other complexes to use but the geographical footprint would be much bigger.  Could they pull it off?  Unlikely.  Not having access to Reach is tough and makes the logistics difficult.  With mounting pressure,  don't know if other city councils have the appetite for taking this on.  

Scottsdale sports complex has 10 fields, but only 4 under lights. I think Copper Sky in Maricopa has only 4 lighted fields (8 total).


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## oh canada

At least one of AZ's US Senators speaking out yesterday against youth sports too:









						Sinema among Arizona Democrats who haven't heard from Gov. Ducey
					

U.S. Sen. Kyrsten Sinema is among the list of Arizona Democrats demanding stricter coronavirus measures who hasn't been in contact with Gov. Doug Ducey despite the pandemic worsening again in the state.




					ktar.com
				




If you have the means and interest for alternate plans for New Year's holiday, that might be something to start considering.  I assume Surf will give back deposits 100% but you might not hear from them until Christmas week judging from past tournament communication.  Hence, the reason for these PSA-like posts.


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## happy9

oh canada said:


> At least one of AZ's US Senators speaking out yesterday against youth sports too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sinema among Arizona Democrats who haven't heard from Gov. Ducey
> 
> 
> U.S. Sen. Kyrsten Sinema is among the list of Arizona Democrats demanding stricter coronavirus measures who hasn't been in contact with Gov. Doug Ducey despite the pandemic worsening again in the state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ktar.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have the means and interest for alternate plans for New Year's holiday, that might be something to start considering.  I assume Surf will give back deposits 100% but you might not hear from them until Christmas week judging from past tournament communication.  Hence, the reason for these PSA-like posts.


Ahh, how glorious, another politician doing politicky things.  Jumping on bandwagons is her thing.


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## Kante

happy9 said:


> I would have to agree.  There are other complexes to use but the geographical footprint would be much bigger.  Could they pull it off?  Unlikely.  Not having access to Reach is tough and makes the logistics difficult.  With mounting pressure,  don't know if other city councils have the appetite for taking this on.
> 
> Scottsdale sports complex has 10 fields, but only 4 under lights. I think Copper Sky in Maricopa has only 4 lighted fields (8 total).


1) am all for playing, and have a dog in the hunt with Surf Cup

2) am furious w/ Newsom (despite being a dyed in the wool dark blue Dem) for the incompetent delay on youth sports guidance earlier this Fall, which directly led to teams playing out of state

3) looked up the testing numbers this morning for the different AZ counties. - https://www.azdhs.gov/preparedness/epidemiology-disease-control/infectious-disease-epidemiology/covid-19/dashboards/index.php.

Maricopa County (which includes Phoenix) is showing 2,265 new cases on 12/1 out of 10,352 new tests, about 22% positivity. 

San Diego, by contrast, is showing 1,378 new cases on 11/30 out of 15,377 new tests, about 9% positivity. 

4) seems like - it's tough to tell without trend lines from AZ DPH - the AZ house is on fire, covid speaking. But, for the olders - 02s and 03s - it's brutal re: college.


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## happy9

Kante said:


> 1) am all for playing, and have a dog in the hunt with Surf Cup
> 
> 2) am furious w/ Newsom (despite being a dyed in the wool dark blue Dem) for the incompetent delay on youth sports guidance earlier this Fall, which directly led to teams playing out of state
> 
> 3) looked up the testing numbers this morning for the different AZ counties. - https://www.azdhs.gov/preparedness/epidemiology-disease-control/infectious-disease-epidemiology/covid-19/dashboards/index.php.
> 
> Maricopa County (which includes Phoenix) is showing 2,265 new cases on 12/1 out of 10,352 new tests, about 22% positivity.
> 
> San Diego, by contrast, is showing 1,378 new cases on 11/30 out of 15,377 new tests, about 9% positivity.
> 
> 4) seems like - it's tough to tell without trend lines from AZ DPH - the AZ house is on fire, covid speaking. But, for the olders - 02s and 03s - it's brutal re: college.


For whatever reasons (pick one - hubris, power hungry, etc) CA has not done right by its youth sports.  Maybe Gavi just doesn't trust anyone?

Based on the mayo clinic numbers below, CA #s are much better than AZ.  You guys have been under a more severe lockdown than us in AZ.  While fatality rates are trending down (even with increase in positivity), CA is implementing more measures.  I'm not smart enough to figure out if the mayo clinic site is a good site to review data and make decisions.  






						Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) from Mayo Clinic - Mayo Clinic
					






					www.mayoclinic.org
				









						Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) from Mayo Clinic - Mayo Clinic
					






					www.mayoclinic.org
				




Maybe Surf Cup needs to head to Bullhead or Yuma, or Coachella.


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## SBFDad

Kante said:


> 2) am furious w/ Newsom (despite being a dyed in the wool dark blue Dem) for the incompetent delay on youth sports guidance earlier this Fall, which directly led to teams playing out of state


I couldn’t agree more with this comment. Furious is the right word. 

He missed several opportunities to allow kids to get back to it, but kept the blinders on. So much riskier for families to travel out of state to play...COVID, hours driving through the desert, staying in hotels, eating out, etc... It’s shocking that he continued to ignore these realities for months. Very poor leadership.

No chance he gives a single inch on the issue now. Not with COVID raging through the Fall and Winter months. That ship has sailed. Our kids are stuck in this no-win/no-play situation in CA until this pandemic is over.


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## Canicas

I could not agree more. Newsome and his team have failed our youth and many community businesses.  There was several windows of opportunity to get youth sports programs going safely and help local businesses, save jobs and really provide our youth with a much needed outlet for the tons of emotions, anxiety and fear many of them are living with.


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## whatithink

SBFDad said:


> I couldn’t agree more with this comment. Furious is the right word.
> 
> He missed several opportunities to allow kids to get back to it, but kept the blinders on. So much riskier for families to travel out of state to play...COVID, hours driving through the desert, staying in hotels, eating out, etc... It’s shocking that he continued to ignore these realities for months. Very poor leadership.
> 
> No chance he gives a single inch on the issue now. Not with COVID raging through the Fall and Winter months. That ship has sailed. Our kids are stuck in this no-win/no-play situation in CA until this pandemic is over.


While I think CA should be playing soccer, the Governor made his call. He didn't make it "riskier for families to travel out of state ..." etc. Parents did that. 

They made a choice, they are responsible. I would probably have done the same, btw, and I'd accept it was my choice and any consequences were on me.


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## Soccer Bum 06

happy9 said:


> Ahh, how glorious, another politician doing politicky things.  Jumping on bandwagons is her thing.


It is also so nice to see certain posters giddy that Surf may have to cancel. It is a travesty what has been done to our children. Seems like some hate Surf so much they are ok that the kids will miss out on playing a game they love. Hide behind the safety aspect and claim anyone who dare travel is placing others at risk let alone their own child. All a bunch of nonsense.


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## Grace T.

Statement by CIF



			Statement Regarding Education-Based Athletics for 2020-21 School Year -  California Interscholastic Federation


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## Anon9

bye bye Surf Cup


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## Lavey29

Plenty of options for Surf Cup to proceed. Looking forward to some great soccer play also. Hope they are all close competitive matches. Lots of quality video also so for those of you so afraid to leave your bubble, let me know and I will gladly send you some links so you can watch some great soccer. It will feel just like you were sitting on the sideline cheering for your player and team. Well almost...


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## jimlewis

Anon9 said:


> View attachment 9562
> bye bye Surf Cup


Im guessing this is the AZ case curve.  Im also guessing thats a catch up from the weekend.  check the hospitalizations, still under july


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## SoccerFan4Life

Soccer Bum 06 said:


> It is also so nice to see certain posters giddy that Surf may have to cancel. It is a travesty what has been done to our children. Seems like some hate Surf so much they are ok that the kids will miss out on playing a game they love. Hide behind the safety aspect and claim anyone who dare travel is placing others at risk let alone their own child. All a bunch of nonsense.


I dont hate Surf but they kept extending the dates and it became a joke.   They have moved this tournament about 5 times in 6 months. 

Most kids just want to play any game they can.  Who cares if it's Surf, state cup, or anything else.   

They just need to say " Surf 2020 has been cancelled. See you all in the summer of 2021 in San Diego".


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## Dubs

Question... For those 03s and 04s still looking to get recruited (assuming they played in ECNL Phoenix), wouldn't you have enough body of work at this point to move discussions forward or move on from those schools that aren't interested?  I guess what I'm asking is.. don't college coaches have what they need at this point for those two graduating classes?


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## davin

jimlewis said:


> Im guessing this is the AZ case curve.  Im also guessing thats a catch up from the weekend.  check the hospitalizations, still under july


As of today, AZ has only 10% of it's ICU beds available, with COVID ICU bed usage still rising. Same amount of remaining capacity as in July as of today, and expected to drop in the next few weeks.


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## watfly

SBFDad said:


> I couldn’t agree more with this comment. Furious is the right word.
> 
> He missed several opportunities to allow kids to get back to it, but kept the blinders on. So much riskier for families to travel out of state to play...COVID, hours driving through the desert, staying in hotels, eating out, etc... It’s shocking that he continued to ignore these realities for months. Very poor leadership.
> 
> No chance he gives a single inch on the issue now. Not with COVID raging through the Fall and Winter months. That ship has sailed. Our kids are stuck in this no-win/no-play situation in CA until this pandemic is over.


Once and for all Newsom's actions have nothing directly to do with youth sports.  Youth sports won't reopen until schools do, and schools won't reopen until the unions give Newsom the green light.

As far as Surf Cup goes (and I'm not a defender of Surf), but what do we expect them to do in this time of complete uncertainty that they have little to no control over?


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## dad4

Anon9 said:


> View attachment 9562
> bye bye Surf Cup


That’s a one day spike caused by reporting delays over the holidays.  The explanation was in their twitter feed.

Actual AZ cases are 3500-4000 per day.  Still ugly enough to cancel Surf, if that’s what they want to do.


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## LASTMAN14

watfly said:


> Once and for all Newsom's actions have nothing directly to do with youth sports.  Youth sports won't reopen until schools do, and schools won't reopen until the unions give Newsom the green light.


Makes sense with many districts and union approval are requesting/applying to open. Newsome has his own agenda.


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## oh canada

Lavey29 said:


> Plenty of options for Surf Cup to proceed. Looking forward to some great soccer play also. Hope they are all close competitive matches. Lots of quality video also so for those of you so afraid to leave your bubble, let me know and I will gladly send you some links so you can watch some great soccer. It will feel just like you were sitting on the sideline cheering for your player and team. Well almost...


"Plenty of options..."

Please explain?


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## gotothebushes

Lavey29 said:


> Plenty of options for Surf Cup to proceed. Looking forward to some great soccer play also. Hope they are all close competitive matches. Lots of quality video also so for those of you so afraid to leave your bubble, let me know and I will gladly send you some links so you can watch some great soccer. It will feel just like you were sitting on the sideline cheering for your player and team. Well almost...


What options are you referring? Is there another tournament going on that we don't know about?


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## Anon9

dad4 said:


> That’s a one day spike caused by reporting delays over the holidays.  The explanation was in their twitter feed.
> 
> Actual AZ cases are 3500-4000 per day.  Still ugly enough to cancel Surf, if that’s what they want to do.


Its all about perception at this point. Not a good look for any state. We’ve had other holidays, and Arizona hasn’t seen a spike like this. If anything, it shows the virus is prevalent.


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## watfly

LASTMAN14 said:


> Makes sense with many districts and union approval are requesting/applying to open. Newsome has his own agenda.


LAUSD and SDUSD?  If there is evidence of their request for full reopening then I will rethink my statement.  Smaller districts yes (because they don't have the political power) but in most cases hybrid only and/or education that is only in-person in form, and not substance.  Been there done that with my kids two school districts that are open 1 or 2 days a week.  Pulled my son from hybrid...it was a joke.  Other kids are transferring to private schools that are fully open, and have been for sometime.  Remind me again how unions aren't controlling this despite the overwhelming evidence, and the blessing of Fauci, that schools should be open.  Personally I would put teachers at the top of the vaccination list and see what excuse the unions use now.  Maybe public pressure would prevail. (BTW I'm pro public schools, pro teachers and anti teachers' unions because they couldn't care less about the kids.)


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## happy9

Anon9 said:


> Its all about perception at this point. Not a good look for any state. We’ve had other holidays, and Arizona hasn’t seen a spike like this. If anything, it shows the virus is prevalent.


No doubt about the prevalence and the optics.  Doesn't help that our normal capacity this time of the year is around 89-90%, mostly due to snowbirds. I suspect that elective surgeries are now on the table, as much as the hospitals hate to do that.  They are restricting visitors as of now.  

Something has to be done in order to be seen as being done.  Some of this is about optics, some of it is about public health.  Don't think for one minute that our politicians have the interest of the community  as a priority.  Shut downs aren't popular here.  The city of Phoenix is going to do what the city of phoenix is going to do.  If other cities don't follow phoenix, then impact on soccer will be uncomfortable but it won't be fatal.  Unless the county shuts down everyone, other cities will keep fields open.  Practices locations will be harder to come buy.  Some clubs that aren't as flexible will be impacted more than others.

None of this is good for Surf.  In the eyes of most local, hysterical media,  Surf and youth sports is the big, bad, rona boogy man.  Target of opportunity.  

CA politicians are the real deal boogy men/women.


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## Kicker4Life

happy9 said:


> No doubt about the prevalence and the optics.  Doesn't help that our normal capacity this time of the year is around 89-90%, mostly due to snowbirds. I suspect that elective surgeries are now on the table, as much as the hospitals hate to do that.  They are restricting visitors as of now.
> 
> Something has to be done in order to be seen as being done.  Some of this is about optics, some of it is about public health.  Don't think for one minute that our politicians have the interest of the community  as a priority.  Shut downs aren't popular here.  The city of Phoenix is going to do what the city of phoenix is going to do.  If other cities don't follow phoenix, then impact on soccer will be uncomfortable but it won't be fatal.  Unless the county shuts down everyone, other cities will keep fields open.  Practices locations will be harder to come buy.  Some clubs that aren't as flexible will be impacted more than others.
> 
> None of this is good for Surf.  In the eyes of most local, hysterical media,  Surf and youth sports is the big, bad, rona boogy man.  Target of opportunity.
> 
> CA politicians are the real deal boogy men/women.


Makes you wonder, if AZ comes out and says, “No CA teams playing in AZ” versus “No Out of State teams playing in AZ”, what the real agenda is....


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## LASTMAN14

watfly said:


> LAUSD and SDUSD?  If there is evidence of their request for full reopening then I will rethink my statement.  Smaller districts yes (because they don't have the political power) but in most cases hybrid only and/or education that is only in-person in form, and not substance.  Been there done that with my kids two school districts that are open 1 or 2 days a week.  Pulled my son from hybrid...it was a joke.  Other kids are transferring to private schools that are fully open, and have been for sometime.  Remind me again how unions aren't controlling this despite the overwhelming evidence, and the blessing of Fauci, that schools should be open.  Personally I would put teachers at the top of the vaccination list and see what excuse the unions use now.  Maybe public pressure would prevail. (BTW I'm pro public schools, pro teachers and anti teachers' unions because they couldn't care less about the kids.)


I do not disagree with you on LAUSD and SD, as well as the sentiment towards their unions. We have in fact agreed on this in the past. However, your statement overall is a blanket one and does not consider each individual district and what they are doing. Yes, those two throw their weight around but that is not overwhelming evidence of union control. Smaller districts do have the power to begin the reopening process if they so chose to. Of course the current level of education being thrust upon students is not rigorous as we would like. Not to mention all the other downsides to not being on campus. Pulling your child was a personal choice and an issue you have with how your districts delivers academic services. Which I can also agree with you. BTW-I am an educator who has worked for LAUSD and left the politics/messiness of that district. As well as having issues with unions. Their are many hands involved not just a union.


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## Soccerfan2

LASTMAN14 said:


> I do not disagree with you on LAUSD and SD, as well as the sentiment towards their unions. We have in fact agreed on this in the past. However, your statement overall is a blanket one and does not consider each individual district and what they are doing. Yes, those two throw their weight around but that is not overwhelming evidence of union control. Smaller districts do have the power to begin the reopening process if they so chose to. Of course the current level of education being thrust upon students is not rigorous as we would like. Not to mention all the other downsides to not being on campus. Pulling your child was a personal choice and an issue you have with how your districts delivers academic services. Which I can also agree with you. BTW-I am an educator who has worked for LAUSD and left the politics/messiness of that district. As well as having issues with unions. Their are many hands involved not just a union.


To support Lastman’s point, I’m teaching 5 days a week like normal in my elementary classroom and have been for a month. Our union easily agreed with our district, and it wasn’t because we don’t have power. Our teachers overwhelmingly wanted to go back too.


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## Eagle33

It's easy to blame governor or whoever else, but in this case I believe Surf Cup is at fault by not calling quit when they should have and holding up all the money from teams who applied in the beginning of the year. Now they will come up with excuses of spending some of the money for field reservation or whatever else. 20-25% of your fees not coming back? Just a guess.


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## watfly

LASTMAN14 said:


> I do not disagree with you on LAUSD and SD, as well as the sentiment towards their unions. We have in fact agreed on this in the past. However, your statement overall is a blanket one and does not consider each individual district and what they are doing. Yes, those two throw their weight around but that is not overwhelming evidence of union control. Smaller districts do have the power to begin the reopening process if they so chose to. Of course the current level of education being thrust upon students is not rigorous as we would like. Not to mention all the other downsides to not being on campus. Pulling your child was a personal choice and an issue you have with how your districts delivers academic services. Which I can also agree with you. BTW-I am an educator who has worked for LAUSD and left the politics/messiness of that district. As well as having issues with unions. Their are many hands involved not just a union.


All fair points.  It would have been more accurate for me to say the major teachers' unions.


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## happy9

Kicker4Life said:


> Makes you wonder, if AZ comes out and says, “No CA teams playing in AZ” versus “No Out of State teams playing in AZ”, what the real agenda is....


I think wording from the Phoenix City council will be "no out of state teams".  They are comrades in arms with LA City/LA County.


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## happy9

I don't know anyone within the Surf Cup organization.  For those that may, do you think they will try and contingency plan this thing and look to coordinate other fields outside of the city of Phoenix?  There are plenty of fields available but wonder if the extra logistics complexity will force them to call it quits sometime later this week or early next week.  

Plenty of quality fields available between Scottsdale, Mesa, Gilbert, Peoria, Maricopa.  Just wonder how gung ho they are and if you think they are currently in negotiations with these other cities.


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## Kante

watfly said:


> LAUSD and SDUSD?  If there is evidence of their request for full reopening then I will rethink my statement.  Smaller districts yes (because they don't have the political power) but in most cases hybrid only and/or education that is only in-person in form, and not substance.  Been there done that with my kids two school districts that are open 1 or 2 days a week.  Pulled my son from hybrid...it was a joke.  Other kids are transferring to private schools that are fully open, and have been for sometime.  Remind me again how unions aren't controlling this despite the overwhelming evidence, and the blessing of Fauci, that schools should be open.  Personally I would put teachers at the top of the vaccination list and see what excuse the unions use now.  Maybe public pressure would prevail. (BTW I'm pro public schools, pro teachers and anti teachers' unions because they couldn't care less about the kids.)


Senor, On hybrid, what were the downsides that drove your decision? and any upsides? 

genuinely interested in your experience since our two are looking at hybrid soon.


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## oh canada

happy9 said:


> I don't know anyone within the Surf Cup organization.  For those that may, do you think they will try and contingency plan this thing and look to coordinate other fields outside of the city of Phoenix?  There are plenty of fields available but wonder if the extra logistics complexity will force them to call it quits sometime later this week or early next week.
> 
> Plenty of quality fields available between Scottsdale, Mesa, Gilbert, Peoria, Maricopa.  Just wonder how gung ho they are and if you think they are currently in negotiations with these other cities.


You might end up having the ironic situation of Surf Cup Sports holding Surf Cup in AZ on Jan. 1, but limited only to AZ teams.  Surf needs $$ and will take it anyway they can get it, even if only from 200 teams vs. 800.  Then look for the faux AZ teams to be registered by desperate Surf and Blues parents needing that vital youth soccer fix.


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## watfly

Kante said:


> Senor, On hybrid, what were the downsides that drove your decision? and any upsides?
> 
> genuinely interested in your experience since our two are looking at hybrid soon.


Sure.  With my son's hybrid was two days a week (7th Grade).  The students were confined to their desks all day long with lunch at their desk.  Most of the work was online on their Chromebooks.  PE, when they were even allowed, consisted of students holding a rope spaced 6 feet apart and walking two laps on the track.  Between the two, hybrid and online, online allowed more flexibility particularly the ability to move about during the day and not be confined to a desk all day.  My son's online runs from 9-3 with a lunch break so its pretty intensive.

My daughter's high school is one day a week in person.  The day is dependent on your last name alphabetically.  The school decided to switch to a quarter system for the pandemic (smart move), so my daughter has 2 to 3 classes depending on the quarter.  Right now she goes to school 1 day a week for two hours (usually only 5-6 kids in class).  The in-person portion is mildly productive but not much you can do in one hour per subject.  One of her teachers, a young guy (don't know if he has any health issues), refuses to return to school, so she has an in-person teacher and an online teacher for the same class.  There is little to any online teaching by her teachers, some recorded lessons, but mostly just assignments and self guided learning.

That's our experience, I hope that your hybrid experience will be much better.


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## LASTMAN14

watfly said:


> All fair points.  It would have been more accurate for me to say the major teachers' unions.


I can agree with that.


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## watfly

watfly said:


> Sure.  With my son's hybrid was two days a week (7th Grade).  The students were confined to their desks all day long with lunch at their desk.  Most of the work was online on their Chromebooks.  PE, when they were even allowed, consisted of students holding a rope spaced 6 feet apart and walking two laps on the track.  Between the two, hybrid and online, online allowed more flexibility particularly the ability to move about during the day and not be confined to a desk all day.  My son's online runs from 9-3 with a lunch break so its pretty intensive.
> 
> My daughter's high school is one day a week in person.  The day is dependent on your last name alphabetically.  The school decided to switch to a quarter system for the pandemic (smart move), so my daughter has 2 to 3 classes depending on the quarter.  Right now she goes to school 1 day a week for two hours (usually only 5-6 kids in class).  The in-person portion is mildly productive but not much you can do in one hour per subject.  One of her teachers, a young guy (don't know if he has any health issues), refuses to return to school, so she has an in-person teacher and an online teacher for the same class.  There is little to any online teaching by her teachers, some recorded lessons, but mostly just assignments and self guided learning.
> 
> That's our experience, I hope that your hybrid experience will be much better.


I might add that I think the most important question is how the in-person portion of your child's hybrid will resemble traditional in person learning, or will it effectively just be online learning in the classroom.


----------



## Lavey29

oh canada said:


> "Plenty of options..."
> 
> Please explain?



Some of us are just much more informed. I guess that is because its difficult to get REAL information while in your isolation bubble. Got my reservations confirmed. Hope we play the best teams in the tournament.  I like tough competitive matches where both teams are battling out till the final whistle.


----------



## Kante

watfly said:


> Sure.  With my son's hybrid was two days a week (7th Grade).  The students were confined to their desks all day long with lunch at their desk.  Most of the work was online on their Chromebooks.  PE, when they were even allowed, consisted of students holding a rope spaced 6 feet apart and walking two laps on the track.  Between the two, hybrid and online, online allowed more flexibility particularly the ability to move about during the day and not be confined to a desk all day.  My son's online runs from 9-3 with a lunch break so its pretty intensive.
> 
> My daughter's high school is one day a week in person.  The day is dependent on your last name alphabetically.  The school decided to switch to a quarter system for the pandemic (smart move), so my daughter has 2 to 3 classes depending on the quarter.  Right now she goes to school 1 day a week for two hours (usually only 5-6 kids in class).  The in-person portion is mildly productive but not much you can do in one hour per subject.  One of her teachers, a young guy (don't know if he has any health issues), refuses to return to school, so she has an in-person teacher and an online teacher for the same class.  There is little to any online teaching by her teachers, some recorded lessons, but mostly just assignments and self guided learning.
> 
> That's our experience, I hope that your hybrid experience will be much better.


Thx. Input appreciated.


----------



## happy9

oh canada said:


> You might end up having the ironic situation of Surf Cup Sports holding Surf Cup in AZ on Jan. 1, but limited only to AZ teams.  Surf needs $$ and will take it anyway they can get it, even if only from 200 teams vs. 800.  Then look for the faux AZ teams to be registered by desperate Surf and Blues parents needing that vital youth soccer fix.


Ha, the irony would be rich.  Surf cup being held over 6 hrs away from a beach.  

I can't claim to know how things will play out.  In the world of AZ soccer, Surf Cup is a nice to have.  Businesses would certainly appreciate it. Not playing Surf may benefit AZ soccer and deny local politicians the leverage to implement useless and baseless restriction on clubs.


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> Some of us are just much more informed. I guess that is because its difficult to get REAL information while in your isolation bubble. Got my reservations confirmed. Hope we play the best teams in the tournament.  I like tough competitive matches where both teams are battling out till the final whistle.


So you think Surf has a contingency plan and has coordinated with other cities to use their fields?  Interesting


----------



## Luis Andres

Wether Surf cancels or does not cancel, we keep on playing. I just found tournaments happening in California this December and January on Indian lands. Also there is the Kandy Cup tournament this January 9th aim to protest against governor greasy Newsom. I would welcome you to join the protest by playing that day. It’s all about organizing among ourselves now. Who needs these big tournaments when we can self organize as parents and teams here ourselves.


----------



## oh canada

Lavey29 said:


> Some of us are just much more informed. I guess that is because its difficult to get REAL information while in your isolation bubble. Got my reservations confirmed. Hope we play the best teams in the tournament.  I like tough competitive matches where both teams are battling out till the final whistle.


So you don't know jack.  Otherwise, you'd share details to help families make fully informed decisions.


----------



## oh canada

If you can't get enough of listening to politicians posture, I believe this is a livestream link to today's Phoenix City Council meeting:









						City of Phoenix PHXTV
					

PHXTV is the city of Phoenix's official television station. Watch live events, or on-demand shows.




					www.phoenix.gov


----------



## Kicker4Life

Luis Andres said:


> Wether Surf cancels or does not cancel, we keep on playing. I just found tournaments happening in California this December and January on Indian lands. Also there is the Kandy Cup tournament this January 9th aim to protest against governor greasy Newsom. I would welcome you to join the protest by playing that day. It’s all about organizing among ourselves now. Who needs these big tournaments when we can self organize as parents and teams here ourselves.View attachment 9564


Great idea and support it 100% but does nothing for the olders, especially those in recruiting years who don’t have any current game footage.


----------



## gotothebushes

oh canada said:


> If you can't get enough of listening to politicians posture, I believe this is a livestream link to today's Phoenix City Council meeting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> City of Phoenix PHXTV
> 
> 
> PHXTV is the city of Phoenix's official television station. Watch live events, or on-demand shows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.phoenix.gov


Listening  now!


----------



## Eagle33

Kicker4Life said:


> Great idea and support it 100% but does nothing for the olders, especially those in recruiting years who don’t have any current game footage.


No game footage? What about from previous season?


----------



## youthsportsugghhh

Eagle33 said:


> No game footage? What about from previous season?


Current game footage -- college coaches have seen the highlights and maybe even seen live at some showcase. and have opinions, but want to see something newer than 9-12 months old. If you weren't at the most recent ECNL thing in AZ then you are S.O.L


----------



## lafalafa

gotothebushes said:


> Listening  now!


So mayor recommends no tournaments but local play at parks with masks?


----------



## Kicker4Life

Eagle33 said:


> No game footage? What about from previous season?


Did you miss the word “current” in my post?


----------



## timbuck

I think Surf Cup's fate was sealed when CNN ran this story last week. Nobody wants to be the cause for Grandma spending January in the hospital.








						Hundreds of kids and their families are headed to Arizona for a soccer tournament with 500 teams | CNN
					

A soccer tournament featuring hundreds of players is a go in Phoenix -- in spite of Covid-19 restrictions and the mayor's disapproval.




					www.cnn.com


----------



## oh canada

lafalafa said:


> So mayor recommends no tournaments but local play at parks with masks?


Before the vote, the Head of Phoenix Parks said, "There are no field allocations beyond December."  So, either Surf didn't ask to reserve fields in city of Phoenix (eg, Reach 11) or they asked but were not yet given permission.  If other cities are also holding back on field commitments due to uncertainties of Covid contagion, it's possible Surf may not have any fields in any city 100% confirmed (Mesa, Scottsdale, etc.)

The council's epidemiologist said her recommendation is "no tournaments".

Still awaiting the final vote.


----------



## TOSDCI

youthsportsugghhh said:


> Current game footage -- college coaches have seen the highlights and maybe even seen live at some showcase. and have opinions, but want to see something newer than 9-12 months old. If you weren't at the most recent ECNL thing in AZ then you are S.O.L


Even if you were, the camera work was sketchy at best for my DD team.  If they weren't playing on the side nearest the camera, you really couldn't distinguish numbers very well.  I asked my DD to find a few clips from the weekend and highlight her good plays.  Don't know if anyone she emailed her schedule to watched the livestream as she is a 2023.  Fun times!


----------



## youthsportsugghhh

TOSDCI said:


> Even if you were, the camera work was sketchy at best for my DD team.  If they weren't playing on the side nearest the camera, you really couldn't distinguish numbers very well.  I asked my DD to find a few clips from the weekend and highlight her good plays.  Don't know if anyone she emailed her schedule to watched the livestream as she is a 2023.  Fun times!


I was watching and our footage was ok, but not great. We have a parent that also video's the games and shares them out so girls can either clip from the game or send a link with better picture for coaches to watch and able to manipulate the speed. It is hard to know who is watching when you cannot have direct communication as of yet for a '23. My kid had contact after the games so that was nice, but she is a '22.


----------



## happy9

oh canada said:


> Before the vote, the Head of Phoenix Parks said, "There are no field allocations beyond December."  So, either Surf didn't ask to reserve fields in city of Phoenix (eg, Reach 11) or they asked but were not yet given permission.  If other cities are also holding back on field commitments due to uncertainties of Covid contagion, it's possible Surf may not have any fields in any city 100% confirmed (Mesa, Scottsdale, etc.)
> 
> The council's epidemiologist said her recommendation is "no tournaments".
> 
> Still awaiting the final vote.


I think it's a done deal - nothing official yet.  This may be the saddest example of a group of people governing  from a position of ignorance and pre-conceived bias.


----------



## Kicker4Life

happy9 said:


> I think it's a done deal - nothing official yet.  This may be the saddest example of a group of people governing  from a position of ignorance and pre-conceived bias.


Following in the footsteps of California


----------



## SacBVB

happy9 said:


> I think it's a done deal - nothing official yet.  This may be the saddest example of a group of people governing  from a position of ignorance and pre-conceived bias.


Sad indeed.  At least Councilman Jim Waring was able to bring some semblance of  balance to the discussion.  Doesn't look like it will matter in the end though


----------



## happy9

Kicker4Life said:


> Following in the footsteps of California


Yep, just the city of phoenix.  The complete lack of understanding in regards to problem solving and administrating is woefully embarrassing.  Somehow, canceling a soccer tournament is going to stop people from coming to the state.  This is low hanging fruit for a group people who are incredibly under qualified to handle the crisis at hand.

We will see how the other cities react.  Plenty of events upcoming in the City of Scottsdale that drive revenue.


----------



## RedHawk

7-2 vote. Phoenix tournaments are cancelled as of Dec. 3rd


----------



## oh canada

Passed 7-2.  All youth sports tournaments--not just out-of-state teams-- cancelled throughout City of Phoenix until levels drop down to September 6th.


----------



## oh canada

RedHawk said:


> 7-2 vote. Phoenix tournaments are cancelled as of Dec. 3rd


Right.  Now, question is where did Surf Cup request fields.  Someone on these forums should be able to relay that info.  With PHX making this decision, there will be added pressure on neighboring cities to do the same.


----------



## happy9

There you go, the city of Phoenix, through their courage and innovation, have successfully launched a plan to begin the eradication of the rona by not allowing organized soccer games on city fields.  

I would have more respect for them if they took on local business owners. Oh well.


----------



## happy9

oh canada said:


> Right.  Now, question is where did Surf Cup request fields.  Someone on these forums should be able to relay that info.  With PHX making this decision,* there will be added pressure on neighboring cities to do the same.*


I don't think that's necessarily true, but we will see.  Different cultures between cities in Arizona that are in close proximity. Time will tell.  

Each city will take their situation into account.  I think the county will stay out of it.  If they get involved, then all bets are off.


----------



## GT45

This move is rather transparent though. They wait until after the Thanksgiving tournaments to cash in before they make this decision. How many tournaments are there really in the month of December?


----------



## happy9

oh canada said:


> Right.  Now, question is where did Surf Cup request fields.  Someone on these forums should be able to relay that info.  With PHX making this decision, there will be added pressure on neighboring cities to do the same.


For the city of phoenix - Reach, Rose Mofford, and likely a field complex further north of Reach (small, 4 fields maybe, but under  lights).

Total of 25 fields?


----------



## lafalafa

happy9 said:


> For the city of phoenix - Reach, Rose Mofford, and likely a field complex further north of Reach (small, 4 fields maybe, but under  lights).
> 
> Total of 25 fields?


So doesn't apply to  Scottsdale Sports Complex?

*Locations for Surf Cup – Phoenix*
Reach 11 and Scottsdale Sports Park


----------



## Lightning Red

oh canada said:


> Right.  Now, question is where did Surf Cup request fields.  Someone on these forums should be able to relay that info.  With PHX making this decision, there will be added pressure on neighboring cities to do the same.


Surf Youngers -  Scottsdale Soccer Complex - Girls & Boys
Surf Olders - Scottsdale Soccer Complex Boys / Reach 11 Girls  (I'd assume there is a contingency plan for this)
If Scottsdale were to follow it looks like there would be a big problem.


----------



## SoccerFrenzy

Lightning Red said:


> Surf Youngers -  Scottsdale Soccer Complex - Girls & Boys
> Surf Olders - Scottsdale Soccer Complex Boys / Reach 11 Girls  (I'd assume there is a contingency plan for this)
> If Scottsdale were to follow it looks like there would be a big problem.


Right! I think the other cities will follow suit


----------



## happy9

lafalafa said:


> So doesn't apply to  Scottsdale Sports Complex?
> 
> *Locations for Surf Cup – Phoenix*
> Reach 11 and Scottsdale Sports Park


does not. Different city.


----------



## nextgenathletics

Luis Andres said:


> Wether Surf cancels or does not cancel, we keep on playing. I just found tournaments happening in California this December and January on Indian lands. Also there is the Kandy Cup tournament this January 9th aim to protest against governor greasy Newsom. I would welcome you to join the protest by playing that day. It’s all about organizing among ourselves now. Who needs these big tournaments when we can self organize as parents and teams here ourselves.View attachment 9564


What tournaments are being played on Indian lands? I heard about that, but can't find anything about them.


----------



## happy9

SoccerFrenzy said:


> Right! I think the other cities will follow suit


What makes you think that?  City of Phoenix were one of the last to open fields over the summer, Scottsdale one of the first.  

We will see, anything can happen.  What happened today wasn't unexpected.


----------



## whatithink

Lightning Red said:


> Surf Youngers -  Scottsdale Soccer Complex - Girls & Boys
> Surf Olders - Scottsdale Soccer Complex Boys / Reach 11 Girls  (I'd assume there is a contingency plan for this)
> If Scottsdale were to follow it looks like there would be a big problem.


No Reach 11 is a big problem. It has 18 fields, all under lights. SSC has 10 fields, but only 4 under lights. There are other fields in the metro area and Surf is not competing with any local tournaments. Logistically harder, but still doable.


----------



## oh canada

Lightning Red said:


> Surf Youngers -  Scottsdale Soccer Complex - Girls & Boys
> Surf Olders - Scottsdale Soccer Complex Boys / Reach 11 Girls  (I'd assume there is a contingency plan for this)
> If Scottsdale were to follow it looks like there would be a big problem.


Good info, thank you.  So yes, Surf will need to find another venue to accommodate older Girls teams.  Reach 11 is a large complex (15+ fields), so likely they will need to find several other parks in the metro area.  It won't be as easy as it seems assuming other sports tournaments are scrambling now too (remember, it's not just soccer).

And this all assumes that Scottsdale doesn't follow suit.  But with infections and hospitalizations skyrocketing--and a clear desire from the local medical community to shut these large events down--it's more than likely they will do the same.  Let's see if we can find out the next Scottsdale City Council meeting date.


----------



## El Soccer Loco

Cancelled


----------



## Chauffeur

El Soccer Loco said:


> Cancelled


Source?


----------



## Spfister

El Soccer Loco said:


> Cancelled


Is it confirmed?


----------



## N00B

Question, as I don’t know the dynamics of AZ fields...

Why all the discussion of lighted fields?

Does Surf Cup traditionally utilize a lot of lighted fields?  The Polo Grounds/Surf Complex don’t seem to utilize them (maybe temporary installations?, don’t recall seeing that) same as SoCal Complex in O’side.

if they get it done in San Diego without a large portion of lighted fields, why is that an issue in AZ?... honestly curious.


----------



## SBFDad

N00B said:


> Question, as I don’t know the dynamics of AZ fields...
> 
> Why all the discussion of lighted fields?
> 
> Does Surf Cup traditionally utilize a lot of lighted fields?  The Polo Grounds/Surf Complex don’t seem to utilize them (maybe temporary installations?, don’t recall seeing that) same as SoCal Complex in O’side.
> 
> if they get it done in San Diego without a large portion of lighted fields, why is that an issue in AZ?... honestly curious.


About 3 hours less daylight this time of year then when Surf Cup is typically hosted. Without lights, you’re wrapping it up by 530pm in AZ the time of year.


----------



## N00B

SBFDad said:


> About 3 hours less daylight this time of year then when Surf Cup is typically hosted. Without lights, you’re wrapping it up by 530pm in AZ the time of year.


Hadn’t thought of seasonal effects on daylight.

Thanks for the reply!


----------



## happy9

Spfister said:


> Is it confirmed?


basically.


----------



## surf&donuts

They could just play the 2001-2003 those who need college game footage. They don’t have to cancel the entire tournament.


----------



## Kicker4Life

surf&donuts said:


> They could just play the 2001-2003 those who need college game footage. They don’t have to cancel the entire tournament.


Most ‘01’s have graduated.  More like ‘02 - ‘04’s


----------



## surf&donuts

Surf Cup website says  Boys U19 DOB from Jan 1, 2001 to Dec 31, 2003


----------



## Soccer Cat

nextgenathletics said:


> What tournaments are being played on Indian lands? I heard about that, but can't find anything about them.


We are playing in Coachella December 12/13th.  It’s called Natives Winter Cup.  They are planning more I was told.





						Event Information
					






					events.gotsport.com


----------



## Chalklines

La Countys been locked down. Expecting orange and SD next.


----------



## Frank

Soccer Cat said:


> We are playing in Coachella December 12/13th.  It’s called Natives Winter Cup.  They are planning more I was told.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Event Information
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> events.gotsport.com


CalSouth came out and is not authorizing teams to go to this.  Teams insurance will not apply and therefore I am not sure coaches and their clubs will do this.


----------



## Soccermompeach

oh canada said:


> Good info, thank you.  So yes, Surf will need to find another venue to accommodate older Girls teams.  Reach 11 is a large complex (15+ fields), so likely they will need to find several other parks in the metro area.  It won't be as easy as it seems assuming other sports tournaments are scrambling now too (remember, it's not just soccer).
> 
> And this all assumes that Scottsdale doesn't follow suit.  But with infections and hospitalizations skyrocketing--and a clear desire from the local medical community to shut these large events down--it's more than likely they will do the same.  Let's see if we can find out the next Scottsdale City Council meeting date.


They have one one the 7th - but not on the agenda.   My fear is yes they have it and no parents can watch?   Traveling from OC is hard to just sit in my car........


----------



## socalkdg

Frank said:


> CalSouth came out and is not authorizing teams to go to this.  Teams insurance will not apply and therefore I am not sure coaches and their clubs will do this.


Where did you see this listed?


----------



## surf&donuts

Frank said:


> CalSouth came out and is not authorizing teams to go to this.  Teams insurance will not apply and therefore I am not sure coaches and their clubs will do this.


They are not allowed to go to Arizona or Coachella?


----------



## Grace T.

Chalklines said:


> La Countys been locked down. Expecting orange and SD next.


I think you are referring to the la city lockdown they just issued. It’s basically smoke and mirrors. See the off topic thread but it doesn’t really change a whole lot (except if your kid is caught playing outside on a scooter in la city they might be charged with a misdemeanor)


----------



## 46n2

remember when there were only two maybe three tournaments worth playing, now people are so thirsty theres flight three teams being accepted against academy teams and vice versa....
its sad that its come to this, but this will pass and normality will return .


----------



## lafalafa




----------



## Soccer Cat

Frank said:


> CalSouth came out and is not authorizing teams to go to this.  Teams insurance will not apply and therefore I am not sure coaches and their clubs will do this.


First I’ve heard, and mostly big name clubs playing.  We haven’t been told we can’t play by our club.  Desperate times, desperate measures?


----------



## Chalklines

46n2 said:


> remember when there were only two maybe three tournaments worth playing, now people are so thirsty theres flight three teams being accepted against academy teams and vice versa....
> its sad that its come to this, but this will pass and normality will return .


Sure. By 2022


----------



## Eagle33

Chalklines said:


> Sure. By 2022


I wouldn't bet on this


----------



## Kicker4Life

Frank said:


> CalSouth came out and is not authorizing teams to go to this.  Teams insurance will not apply and therefore I am not sure coaches and their clubs will do this.


You are 100% correct.  

Sign the waiver and your good to go.  Good to hear CalSouth is actually doing something, even if it’s basically the same nothing they’ve done over the past 9 months.  If you don’t have your own insurance, you may want to weigh the risk reward.  

Otherwise, play on!


----------



## soccer4us

This was sent by surf this morning to our team manager:

We were surprised by the City Council decision to cancel all tournaments in Phoenix for the foreseeable future as this really came out of nowhere. The ECNL event held in mid-November went off smoothly and without any issues. There has been no evidence that outdoor youth sporting events are super-spreader events or that they contribute to the rise in COVID cases within a city.

That being said, the city made the decision and now we have to take a moment to have a few discussions about Surf Cup. My inbox is flooded by people asking what's happening with the event. Please know that my communications will be with ALL accepted teams, not individual parents, managers or coaches. No one will have any information before anyone else.

We are sensitive to the travel arrangements that families have/are making but we need a little time to have discussions and explore options as we truly feel that these players need this event for more than just the soccer portion of what it brings but also for their physical and mental well being.
The goal is to have a decision, and communicate that decision, by Friday, December 4th. A knee-jerk reaction or panicking to the City Council decision isn't the best way to manage this. We do have options. Still in AZ. Still close to Phoenix but not in Phoenix. We are working with those field owners as we speak and will have a plan in place, or a decision soon and I will communicate that as soon as we have it.

We continue to remain committed to having an event for these players. The event has actually become more important as these children have lost so much since COVID became a reality and they need something to look forward to that will bring smiles and laughter back to them after all they have been through.

Personally, I ask that you please give us today to sort through all of this and withhold the emails until I can communicate directly with everyone what the plan is. I know everyone is eager to know the plan and I won't withhold any information any longer than necessary.
Please, keep your fingers and toes crossed and I will be in touch as soon as possible.

We appreciate your support and your willingness to hang in there with us through these challenges as we are all wanting to do something special for our children!



I figured they would exhaust all options before officially saying it's cancelled. I think it still get cancelled but never say never...


----------



## Anon9

Alabama high school championship game ends after stunning 10-point rally in final 18 seconds
					

The finish in Wednesday night's Alabama high school title game is one you need to see to believe.




					www.yahoo.com
				



Meanwhile, in Alabama.........while our kids can’t even do 1v1’s in practice.


----------



## watfly

soccer4us said:


> This was sent by surf this morning to our team manager:
> 
> We were surprised by the City Council decision to cancel all tournaments in Phoenix for the foreseeable future as this really came out of nowhere. The ECNL event held in mid-November went off smoothly and without any issues. There has been no evidence that outdoor youth sporting events are super-spreader events or that they contribute to the rise in COVID cases within a city.
> 
> That being said, the city made the decision and now we have to take a moment to have a few discussions about Surf Cup. My inbox is flooded by people asking what's happening with the event. Please know that my communications will be with ALL accepted teams, not individual parents, managers or coaches. No one will have any information before anyone else.
> 
> We are sensitive to the travel arrangements that families have/are making but we need a little time to have discussions and explore options as we truly feel that these players need this event for more than just the soccer portion of what it brings but also for their physical and mental well being.
> The goal is to have a decision, and communicate that decision, by Friday, December 4th. A knee-jerk reaction or panicking to the City Council decision isn't the best way to manage this. We do have options. Still in AZ. Still close to Phoenix but not in Phoenix. We are working with those field owners as we speak and will have a plan in place, or a decision soon and I will communicate that as soon as we have it.
> 
> We continue to remain committed to having an event for these players. The event has actually become more important as these children have lost so much since COVID became a reality and they need something to look forward to that will bring smiles and laughter back to them after all they have been through.
> 
> Personally, I ask that you please give us today to sort through all of this and withhold the emails until I can communicate directly with everyone what the plan is. I know everyone is eager to know the plan and I won't withhold any information any longer than necessary.
> Please, keep your fingers and toes crossed and I will be in touch as soon as possible.
> 
> We appreciate your support and your willingness to hang in there with us through these challenges as we are all wanting to do something special for our children!
> 
> 
> 
> I figured they would exhaust all options before officially saying it's cancelled. I think it still get cancelled but never say never...


That's a solid response.  I just don't know about the optics for Surf moving forward by securing fields outside city limits.  Surf is effectively a guest in Arizona and by skirting the intent of the law (flawed as it may be) they could be burning bridges for any future events or relationships in Phoenix or AZ.  Personally, I hope Surf gives the middle finger to Phoenix and proceeds with the tournament in the neighboring communities.


----------



## Lavey29

oh canada said:


> So you don't know jack.  Otherwise, you'd share details to help families make fully informed decisions.


You made your bubble isolation decision a long while back so obviously you are very informed and providing the forum with wonderful tidbits of information.  The rest of us are just looking forward to a great event with proper safety protocols in place. They have terrific venues for soccer in Arizona dont they? Going to enjoy some fun family activities like horseback riding also while we are there and yes, I'll make sure we ride 6 feet apart and each horse has his mask on. I wonder if any college coaches from out of state will be there though. Kid did an ID clinic there couple months back and at least 15 coaches there for the session. Let me know if you want some video links after we enjoy another great surf tournament.


----------



## dad4

watfly said:


> That's a solid response.  I just don't know about the optics for Surf moving forward by securing fields outside city limits.  Surf is effectively a guest in Arizona and by skirting the intent of the law (flawed as it may be) they could be burning bridges for any future events or relationships in Phoenix or AZ.  Personally, I hope Surf gives the middle finger to Phoenix and proceeds with the tournament in the neighboring communities.


They may need to cut out some brackets to make it fit.  

It would make sense to run something for U15 and older and tell us youngers to wait for next year.  

I’m hoping they don’t keep the top brackets and leave out the 2nd and 3rd tier olders.  Too many kids/parents who need new video because they are worried about getting onto a college team.


----------



## SacBVB

Anon9 said:


> Alabama high school championship game ends after stunning 10-point rally in final 18 seconds
> 
> 
> The finish in Wednesday night's Alabama high school title game is one you need to see to believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, in Alabama.........while our kids can’t even do 1v1’s in practice.


Surf Cup Alabama!


----------



## Speed

Anon9 said:


> Alabama high school championship game ends after stunning 10-point rally in final 18 seconds
> 
> 
> The finish in Wednesday night's Alabama high school title game is one you need to see to believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, in Alabama.........while our kids can’t even do 1v1’s in practice.


good for them


----------



## soccer4us

Speed said:


> good for them


Wait outdoor youth sports is actually pretty safe? No..no..no...that can't be


----------



## soccer4us

watfly said:


> That's a solid response.  I just don't know about the optics for Surf moving forward by securing fields outside city limits.  Surf is effectively a guest in Arizona and by skirting the intent of the law (flawed as it may be) they could be burning bridges for any future events or relationships in Phoenix or AZ.  Personally, I hope Surf gives the middle finger to Phoenix and proceeds with the tournament in the neighboring communities.


Now, how much do we want to believe it's more about the kids than making up money, that's a different discussion! Overall, I agree. A good statement and they are trying everything. Other question is are enough AZ cities willing to rent fields out to a guest so they can host a tournament/make money especially when majority of teams are probably out of state. I'd be surprised


----------



## whatithink

soccer4us said:


> Now, how much do we want to believe it's more about the kids than making up money, that's a different discussion! Overall, I agree. A good statement and they are trying everything. Other question is are enough AZ cities willing to rent fields out to a guest so they can host a tournament/make money especially when majority of teams are probably out of state. I'd be surprised


Desert Super Cup this past weekend had fields in multiple cities (Phoenix, Scottsdale & Mesa). It had a majority of out of state teams. Its run by Rated Sports Group, not an AZ company.


----------



## watfly

soccer4us said:


> Now, how much do we want to believe it's more about the kids than making up money, that's a different discussion! Overall, I agree. A good statement and they are trying everything. Other question is are enough AZ cities willing to rent fields out to a guest so they can host a tournament/make money especially when majority of teams are probably out of state. I'd be surprised


Despite their impassioned plea for the kids, no question that money is a big driver (maybe truth be told the only driver); however, I don't care what Surf's true motives are, I just like a good middle finger to government overreach.  To me, Surf hosting the tourney and all these kids and parents participating is the ultimate act of civil disobedience...much better than burning shit down.


----------



## Kante

Angry parents won’t let officials slide over closed playgrounds, packed malls
					

For many parents confounded by an array of official dictates, closing playgrounds crossed a line in the sandbox.




					www.latimes.com


----------



## oh canada

Lavey29 said:


> You made your bubble isolation decision a long while back so obviously you are very informed and providing the forum with wonderful tidbits of information.  The rest of us are just looking forward to a great event with proper safety protocols in place. They have terrific venues for soccer in Arizona dont they? Going to enjoy some fun family activities like horseback riding also while we are there and yes, I'll make sure we ride 6 feet apart and each horse has his mask on. I wonder if any college coaches from out of state will be there though. Kid did an ID clinic there couple months back and at least 15 coaches there for the session. Let me know if you want some video links after we enjoy another great surf tournament.


Further proving my point.  Your posts are uninformed, meaningless and a waste of time to write or read.  Btw, two of my kids' teams are currently registered for Surf Cup and planning to play until a couple weeks ago when the numbers started to spike. 

Your failure to comprehend the value of this thread--keeping those of us outside the Surf Cup inner-circle informed--is baffling.  Because of this thread (and posts starting a week + ago in another thread), all of us knew Phoenix cancelled at the same time Surf learned.  That's a good thing, especially given their lack of transparency leading up to the prior two Surf Cup dates.  Makes me wonder if you or someone related is in that inner-circle.  Your post reads like a promo piece for the event.  Even the "college coaches" canard thrown in.  If you didn't know, D1 in-person recruiting has been grounded since Spring and the ban was recently extended into 2021 (I don't need to be reminded there are also D2 and 3 coaches.)

When California goes on full lockdown in a matter of days (regrettably), maybe then Surf will finally have the good sense to give up on their revenue quest and just wait till next year.  Youth soccer is their business and livelihood.  That doesn't mean it has to be all of ours.


----------



## full90

Lavey29 said:


> You made your bubble isolation decision a long while back so obviously you are very informed and providing the forum with wonderful tidbits of information.  The rest of us are just looking forward to a great event with proper safety protocols in place. They have terrific venues for soccer in Arizona dont they? Going to enjoy some fun family activities like horseback riding also while we are there and yes, I'll make sure we ride 6 feet apart and each horse has his mask on. I wonder if any college coaches from out of state will be there though. Kid did an ID clinic there couple months back and at least 15 coaches there for the session. Let me know if you want some video links after we enjoy another great surf tournament.


division 2 and 3 coaches can still recruit. I know several kids who want to go D1 and need film in order to be seen since those coaches can’t be at games or ID clinics.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Luis Andres said:


> If Surf was smart they would move the tournament to coachella area where there is a Indian reservation. Get people to book at the casino hotels nearby and spread out their tournament over a few weeks to minimize lots of people congregated at once. Tournament for Dec 12 is still on for the Indian reservation lol...
> 
> 
> 
> https://nativesfa.com/tournaments-1
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 9567


Unless the Native Tribe would rather run their own events


----------



## Lavey29

full90 said:


> division 2 and 3 coaches can still recruit. I know several kids who want to go D1 and need film in order to be seen since those coaches can’t be at games or ID clinics.



Cool, yes we only had D2 and 3 coaches at the clinic several months back also. I just wonder if many will show up in person or if they are primarily just using video now the majority of time for recruiting purposes.


----------



## Lavey29

oh canada said:


> Further proving my point.  Your posts are uninformed, meaningless and a waste of time to write or read.  Btw, two of my kids' teams are currently registered for Surf Cup and planning to play until a couple weeks ago when the numbers started to spike.
> 
> Your failure to comprehend the value of this thread--keeping those of us outside the Surf Cup inner-circle informed--is baffling.  Because of this thread (and posts starting a week + ago in another thread), all of us knew Phoenix cancelled at the same time Surf learned.  That's a good thing, especially given their lack of transparency leading up to the prior two Surf Cup dates.  Makes me wonder if you or someone related is in that inner-circle.  Your post reads like a promo piece for the event.  Even the "college coaches" canard thrown in.  If you didn't know, D1 in-person recruiting has been grounded since Spring and the ban was recently extended into 2021 (I don't need to be reminded there are also D2 and 3 coaches.)
> 
> When California goes on full lockdown in a matter of days (regrettably), maybe then Surf will finally have the good sense to give up on their revenue quest and just wait till next year.  Youth soccer is their business and livelihood.  That doesn't mean it has to be all of ours.


Wonderful tidbits of info again,  stellar job but you forget to mention if you would like the video links from the terrific tournament in bullhead last weekend with some awesome soccer? It might make life inside the bubble more enjoyable for you. I will also send you the video links from the surf tournament in a few weeks so you can watch some more great soccer play and happy healthy kids enjoying their youth sport. I'm just concerned about your well being so just trying to make your isolation more tolerable.   You're welcome in advance...


----------



## Jose has returned

Its over Dean Wormer dropped the big one.


----------



## oh canada

Newsom just announced a non-essential travel ban that will likely kick in throughout the state in the next few days.  Can't see Surf encouraging families to disobey this state order, regardless of its merits or effectiveness or lack thereof.


----------



## Desert Hound

Jose has returned said:


> Its over Dean Wormer dropped the big one.


Some of the younger members here may not understand that reference.


----------



## Technician72

Jose has returned said:


> Its over Dean Wormer dropped the big one.


“What? Over? Did you say ‘over’? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!”


----------



## younothat

Jose has returned said:


> Its over Dean Wormer dropped the big one.


----------



## Footy30

Luis Andres said:


> If Surf was smart they would move the tournament to coachella area where there is a Indian reservation. Get people to book at the casino hotels nearby and spread out their tournament over a few weeks to minimize lots of people congregated at once. Tournament for Dec 12 is still on for the Indian reservation lol...
> 
> 
> 
> https://nativesfa.com/tournaments-1
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 9567


Hey Luis.... shhhhh I kinda feel like the more tournaments get talked about on here the quicker they get cancelled lol


----------



## Speed

soccer4us said:


> Wait outdoor youth sports is actually pretty safe? No..no..no...that can't be


Everywhere but CA


----------



## SacBVB

The upcoming Holiday Cup Classic next weekend is still on (for now).  Certainly smaller than Surf Cup but still over 300 teams that were supposed to use Reach 11 and Scottsdale Sports Complex.  The tournament director sent our club the following message:

_Holiday Classic Teams,

We have received word that the City of Phoenix has decided to close their fields. We had planned to use the city of Phoenix fields in addition to fields in other local cities around the Phoenix area. We know that this new closure information is causing concerns regarding how this will affect tournament play. We are still planning on continuing with our event. Please give us a few days to review this new information and to determine how this will affect field usage. We will be in contact very soon and appreciate your patience as we work through this. We will be in touch as soon as possible. _


----------



## futboldad1

I hope it goes ahead, my DD won't be there but she had a great time at the ECNL showcase last month and Covid doesn't spread on the fields so they games should be played......however the below quotes from Surf's release are so disingenuous.....they want the $$$$$$, stop making us parents more stressed than we already are with BS comments like below...... yes I feel this way as do most of us but for the organizers of Surf Cup to be saying this is real rich.....

"we truly feel that these players need this event for more than just the soccer portion of what it brings but also for their physical and mental well being.

"we are all wanting to do something special for our children!"


----------



## Lavey29

SacBVB said:


> The upcoming Holiday Cup Classic next weekend is still on (for now).  Certainly smaller than Surf Cup but still over 300 teams that were supposed to use Reach 11 and Scottsdale Sports Complex.  The tournament director sent our club the following message:
> 
> _Holiday Classic Teams,
> 
> We have received word that the City of Phoenix has decided to close their fields. We had planned to use the city of Phoenix fields in addition to fields in other local cities around the Phoenix area. We know that this new closure information is causing concerns regarding how this will affect tournament play. We are still planning on continuing with our event. Please give us a few days to review this new information and to determine how this will affect field usage. We will be in contact very soon and appreciate your patience as we work through this. We will be in touch as soon as possible. _


Excellent,  glad they are able to logistically modify so those kids can play some ball. I'm sure the politicians that made the decision to close fields are sitting in a crowded expensive restaurant having a meal with 10 of their close friends. I hope the teams have a great tournament.


----------



## Lavey29

futboldad1 said:


> I hope it goes ahead, my DD won't be there but she had a great time at the ECNL showcase last month and Covid doesn't spread on the fields so they games should be played......however the below quotes from Surf's release are so disingenuous.....they want the $$$$$$, stop making us parents more stressed than we already are with BS comments like below...... yes I feel this way as do most of us but for the organizers of Surf Cup to be saying this is real rich.....
> 
> "we truly feel that these players need this event for more than just the soccer portion of what it brings but also for their physical and mental well being.
> 
> "we are all wanting to do something special for our children!"



Of course money is a club goal but I have no problem with their statement.  99% of kids involved in youth sports just want to play period. That is my speculation based on my kids attitude and all the others I see at practice,  scrimmages and available tournaments.  That is why some of the small tournaments are seeing 5x or even 10x the amount of teams applying over last year.

Let them kids play...


----------



## tjinaz

happy9 said:


> Yep, just the city of phoenix.  The complete lack of understanding in regards to problem solving and administrating is woefully embarrassing.  Somehow, canceling a soccer tournament is going to stop people from coming to the state.  This is low hanging fruit for a group people who are incredibly under qualified to handle the crisis at hand.
> 
> We will see how the other cities react.  Plenty of events upcoming in the City of Scottsdale that drive revenue.





Lavey29 said:


> Excellent,  glad they are able to logistically modify so those kids can play some ball. I'm sure the politicians that made the decision to close fields are sitting in a crowded expensive restaurant having a meal with 10 of their close friends. I hope the teams have a great tournament.


RSL just picked up the Paloma fields and they are not affiliated with a city so.. that will be the anchor.  Hopefully they can find some other facilities to get this to work.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

surf&donuts said:


> They are not allowed to go to Arizona or Coachella?


Arizona is sanctioned (was) by Calsouth.  Natives FC is not.  I called as I was trying to get my team to attend.  You are on your own as you have no insurance and most large clubs are not allowing clubs to play that tournament. They also raised their prices to $1,000 for the MLK tournament.  Supply and Demand.


----------



## timbuck

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Arizona is sanctioned (was) by Calsouth.  Natives FC is not.  I called as I was trying to get my team to attend.  You are on your own as you have no insurance and most large clubs are not allowing clubs to play that tournament. They also raised their prices to $1,000 for the MLK tournament.  Supply and Demand.


I think Arizona tournaments are typically sanctioned by Arizona Soccer Association which is part of US Youth Soccer (Which is part of USSF). Cal-South is also part of US Youth Soccer.  State governing bodies within US Youth Soccer are affiliated and have insurance reciprocity (I think. Might need to fact check this).  
The Natives tournaments are on sovereign nation land and are not subject to the rules or affiliated with the insurance policies of US Youth Soccer.
I think the tournament is awesome and I hope it goes well for everyone.  But you might be at an "Enter at your own risk" environment if anything happens. I'm sure the folks running the tournament have some sort of liability insurance for themselves.  Not sure what type of coverage your club, team, coach or players will have.


----------



## GT45

oh canada said:


> Newsom just announced a non-essential travel ban that will likely kick in throughout the state in the next few days.  Can't see Surf encouraging families to disobey this state order, regardless of its merits or effectiveness or lack thereof.


The lockdown - for the regions that it applies to - will be temporary.  You make an assumption that it will last into January.


----------



## ITFC Blues

I believe ( not certain)  the non essential travel order is effective immediately.  They did not specify any date when it goes into effect.  They just said non essential travel is to be stopped statewide and didn't specify a date.  They did say that only essential workers or travelers are supposed to stay in hotels statewide.


----------



## dad4

ITFC Blues said:


> I believe ( not certain)  the non essential travel order is effective immediately.  They did not specify any date when it goes into effect.  They just said non essential travel is to be stopped statewide and didn't specify a date.  They did say that only essential workers or travelers are supposed to stay in hotels statewide.


It applies to any region with fewer than 15% of ICU beds available.

Hits socal in the next few days.  Bay area a week or three later.


----------



## Gkdad1

N00B said:


> Hadn’t thought of seasonal effects on daylight.
> 
> Thanks for the reply!


Was this a cordial discussion between two people on this board?!?!? No place for that here


----------



## justneededaname

timbuck said:


> But you might be at an "Enter at your own risk" environment if anything happens. I'm sure the folks running the tournament have some sort of liability insurance for themselves.  Not sure what type of coverage your club, team, coach or players will have.


Do many people make a decision to play in a tournament based on whether it is Cal South sanctioned and has insurance? My kids play in 3-4 non-sanctioned tournaments a year that are thrown by some local person that has a waiver for you to sign. I suspect most people on this forum are the same. 

What is the actual benefit of the Cal South insurance coverage? Real question. I honestly don't know.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

justneededaname said:


> Do many people make a decision to play in a tournament based on whether it is Cal South sanctioned and has insurance? My kids play in 3-4 non-sanctioned tournaments a year that are thrown by some local person that has a waiver for you to sign. I suspect most people on this forum are the same.
> 
> What is the actual benefit of the Cal South insurance coverage? Real question. I honestly don't know.


Covers the club and coach just in case your child gets injured or gets covid and you believe it was a coach negligence or club negligence.     Welcome to the USA  where there’s a lawsuit to happen the moment you walk out of your house.


----------



## notintheface

justneededaname said:


> What is the actual benefit of the Cal South insurance coverage? Real question. I honestly don't know.


A tournament that runs without insurance is basically gambling on player health and the moment you hear of a TD creating an unsanctioned tournament you should run far, far, far away and not look back.


----------



## watfly

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Covers the club and coach just in case your child gets injured or gets covid and you believe it was a coach negligence or club negligence.     Welcome to the USA  where there’s a lawsuit to happen the moment you walk out of your house.





notintheface said:


> A tournament that runs without insurance is basically gambling on player health and the moment you hear of a TD creating an unsanctioned tournament you should run far, far, far away and not look back.


Yes, heaven forbid we take individual responsibility for our own choices.


----------



## Soccermompeach

oh canada said:


> Newsom just announced a non-essential travel ban that will likely kick in throughout the state in the next few days.  Can't see Surf encouraging families to disobey this state order, regardless of its merits or effectiveness or lack thereof.


I was thinking the same thing.   I wonder if you could even get a travel permit from Cal South?


----------



## Frank

socalkdg said:


> Where did you see this listed?


Got an email from them when asking about whether we were allowed to attend


----------



## Frank

justneededaname said:


> Do many people make a decision to play in a tournament based on whether it is Cal South sanctioned and has insurance? My kids play in 3-4 non-sanctioned tournaments a year that are thrown by some local person that has a waiver for you to sign. I suspect most people on this forum are the same.
> 
> What is the actual benefit of the Cal South insurance coverage? Real question. I honestly don't know.


The issue is that as a coach and club if you allow your teams to go to an unsanctioned event and their is an injury or something I would guess that the Club/Coach will quickly be sued.  Not that can't happen anyway, but at least it is a sanctioned event where players were allowed to be.


----------



## oh canada

GT45 said:


> The lockdown - for the regions that it applies to - will be temporary.  You make an assumption that it will last into January.


It's a 3-week minimum lockdown and it begins 48 hours after your region (SoCal) goes below 15% available ICU beds.  That will happen in our region by Weds/Thurs next week.  Add 48 hours and minimum 21 days and it's 2021. And what lockdown has not been extended since the beginning?  Look, i'm on your side and wish the kids could play, but I'm a realist and can read the tea leaves without emotional sway.


----------



## Spfister

No respectable large club is going to allow their teams to travel and play without insurance. Regardless of whether parents sign a waiver. Little Johnny trips and falls and breaks and ankle on the field… Well it’s because the coach played him too much and he was overtired, Katie gets a hamstring pull,   It’s because coach didn’t do a proper warm-up, etc. Kid gets Covid at tournament and brings it home to grandma who dies… well club should not have allowed them to go to tournament.


----------



## socalkdg

Cal South made everyone sign a Covid release form as well.   They wouldn't have cared about grandma either.



			https://calsouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/CSTF-RTP-Waiver-Participants-Final.pdf


----------



## notintheface

watfly said:


> Yes, heaven forbid we take individual responsibility for our own choices.


Have a little empathy for the kid who gets deliberately targeted, injured, and wrecks his year and potential scholarship, by a player who was on a yellow and multiple cautions and should have been sent off (or removed by the opposing coach) far earlier. That's what the insurance is for, when the family decides to bring suit against the opposing coach, club, referee, and TD. Please don't get into the "well the kid shouldn't play if he isn't willing to get injured". A tournament should carry insurance for the same reason that employers carry worker's comp.


----------



## notintheface

Spfister said:


> No respectable large club is going to allow their teams to travel and play without insurance. Regardless of whether parents sign a waiver. Little Johnny trips and falls and breaks and ankle on the field… Well it’s because the coach played him too much and he was overtired, Katie gets a hamstring pull,   It’s because coach didn’t do a proper warm-up, etc. Kid gets Covid at tournament and brings it home to grandma who dies… well club should not have allowed them to go to tournament.


I agree in spirit with this post but it does no good to post hypotheticals that are accidental. Referee pass out from heat stroke at Silverlakes? Insurance covers that. You want to put on a tournament in Oceanside, but you keep pushing back the date and pocketing the difference in credit card fees? Ha ha, okay that's mostly a joke but management liability gets covered by insurance. Basically, don't go to a tournament that doesn't carry insurance because it is a _gigantic_ red flag that the TD is cutting corners.


----------



## Willie

notintheface said:


> I agree in spirit with this post but it does no good to post hypotheticals that are accidental. Referee pass out from heat stroke at Silverlakes? Insurance covers that. You want to put on a tournament in Oceanside, but you keep pushing back the date and pocketing the difference in credit card fees? Ha ha, okay that's mostly a joke but management liability gets covered by insurance. Basically, don't go to a tournament that doesn't carry insurance because it is a _gigantic_ red flag that the TD is cutting corners.


 How do people on here know if a tournament is or is not carrying insurance for an event? Do  we know for sure Natives does not have insurance for the event?


----------



## watfly

notintheface said:


> Have a little empathy for the kid who gets deliberately targeted, injured, and wrecks his year and potential scholarship, by a player who was on a yellow and multiple cautions and should have been sent off (or removed by the opposing coach) far earlier. That's what the insurance is for, when the family decides to bring suit against the opposing coach, club, referee, and TD. Please don't get into the "well the kid shouldn't play if he isn't willing to get injured". A tournament should carry insurance for the same reason that employers carry worker's comp.


From a business standpoint a tournament should absolutely carry insurance (and yes its a red flag for cutting corners if they dont), but to sue a tournament because your kid got hurt by some idiot kid that took him out is sad and pathetic, not to mention a likely loser in court.  Sue the kids parents if you want.  If you can't assume the inherent risks of injury from the actions of other players without suing 3rd parties then do us all a favor and don't participate in the sport.  Liability insurance and workers comp insurance are fundamentally different but I suspect you know that.  Now if the tournament allows play on gopher holed field or spreads out broken glass on the pitch than yes feel free to pursue the tournament's insurance.

I can empathize with a kid that gets injured and loses a soccer opportunity, but I can't empathize with parents that whine about not being able to fund college because their child lost a scholarship when they failed to setup a 529, or other savings, before their kid was even able to walk.


----------



## socalkdg

notintheface said:


> Have a little empathy for the kid who gets deliberately targeted, injured, and wrecks his year and potential scholarship, by a player who was on a yellow and multiple cautions and should have been sent off (or removed by the opposing coach) far earlier. That's what the insurance is for, when the family decides to bring suit against the opposing coach, club, referee, and TD. Please don't get into the "well the kid shouldn't play if he isn't willing to get injured". A tournament should carry insurance for the same reason that employers carry worker's comp.


Take a look at the cal-south AIG claim form.   $1000 deductible and 20% membership copayment required.   Nor is it helping with your fictitious lawsuit.  I'm using our own insurance.  For 80% of us it isn't as good as what we already have.  So if you don't have your own insurance, then you might want to skip all tournaments because I don't want to pay $1000 plus 20% of a $40,000 injury.



			https://3e1alu1z54vg1p3lhbgsp1qz-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/CAL-SOUTH-AIG-CLAIM-FORM-REGISTERED-2020-2021.pdf
		


Actually never use worker's comp if you can avoid it.  Use your own insurance if you have it.   Wife works for an Orange County workers comp company and represent cops, teachers, factory workers, etc.   There are times you have to use it, but shouldn't be your first choice.


----------



## GT45

oh canada said:


> It's a 3-week minimum lockdown and it begins 48 hours after your region (SoCal) goes below 15% available ICU beds.  That will happen in our region by Weds/Thurs next week.  Add 48 hours and minimum 21 days and it's 2021. And what lockdown has not been extended since the beginning?  Look, i'm on your side and wish the kids could play, but I'm a realist and can read the tea leaves without emotional sway.


But the lockdown cannot prevent you from leaving the state. Even the governor knows this. A travel ban cannot be enforced.


----------



## Grace T.

GT45 said:


> But the lockdown cannot prevent you from leaving the state. Even the governor knows this. A travel ban cannot be enforced.


They are remote chances, but I parade of horribles certain scenarios where it can come into play: a. if you are applying for govt contract or job and you are caught on twitter breaking the ban, b. if you come home, get sick, fail to quarantine and reckless infect someone and they sue you, c. if you get into a car accident and the insurance company argues you were in violation of their policy by willful engaging in an illegal activity, d. if you are applying to the bar or a medical license and it comes to light you violaed the travel ban, e. if your employer catches wind you violated the ban and you infect people at work and they fire you for it.


----------



## ITFC Blues

dad4 said:


> It applies to any region with fewer than 15% of ICU beds available.
> 
> Hits socal in the next few days.  Bay area a week or three later.


The Statewide Order restricts travel statewide to only essential travel and is not part of the Regional Stay at home orders.


----------



## Soccer Cat

Spfister said:


> No respectable large club is going to allow their teams to travel and play without insurance. Regardless of whether parents sign a waiver. Little Johnny trips and falls and breaks and ankle on the field… Well it’s because the coach played him too much and he was overtired, Katie gets a hamstring pull,   It’s because coach didn’t do a proper warm-up, etc. Kid gets Covid at tournament and brings it home to grandma who dies… well club should not have allowed them to go to tournament.


Take a look at the schedule.  It’s mostly the “larger respectable” clubs that are playing the tournament.  Unless you don’t consider Legends, Slammers, Beach, So Cal Blues, etc one of those so called clubs...

The venue (Coachella Crossroads) carries insurance I’m told.


----------



## Soccer Drama

Willie said:


> How do people on here know if a tournament is or is not carrying insurance for an event? Do  we know for sure Natives does not have insurance for the event?


----------



## baller6988

Soccer Cat said:


> Take a look at the schedule.  It’s mostly the “larger respectable” clubs that are playing the tournament.  Unless you don’t consider Legends, Slammers, Beach, So Cal Blues, etc one of those so called clubs...
> 
> The venue (Coachella Crossroads) carries insurance I’m told.


where did you see what teams are playing?


----------



## RJonesUSC

baller6988 said:


> where did you see what teams are playing?








						Event Information
					






					events.gotsport.com


----------



## Lavey29

Just got notified of some great soccer matches being scheduled for multiple days early January in Nevada. Dont mind the drive for 3 or 4 games against quality opponents.  Got a coyote lined up to show me the secret off road routes of travel so I can avoid the travel ban newsolini check points.

Let them kids play.


----------



## keeprunning

Grace T. said:


> They are remote chances, but I parade of horribles certain scenarios where it can come into play: a. if you are applying for govt contract or job and you are caught on twitter breaking the ban, b. if you come home, get sick, fail to quarantine and reckless infect someone and they sue you, c. if you get into a car accident and the insurance company argues you were in violation of their policy by willful engaging in an illegal activity, d. if you are applying to the bar or a medical license and it comes to light you violaed the travel ban, e*. if your employer catches wind you violated the ban and you infect people at work and they fire you for it.*


I was told by my employer not to travel so I agree with Grace. I can't risk it.


----------



## oh canada

Update from the other AZ cities (Surf will likely try to reschedule again to a holiday weekend in March/April):

_"Those options may be limited, though. Some surrounding communities, such as Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa and Peoria say they aren't accepting new tournament reservation requests right now. Scottsdale says it is fully booked. Buckeye, Goodyear, Surprise and Tucson are not allowing tournaments right now, according to research compiled by Phoenix."

"Glendale is taking applications for field rentals and reviewing them individually, according to Paul King, the city's recreation administrator. The city hasn't received new requests from tournament organizers in the past few days, he said.

Scottsdale has received requests from tournament organizers in the past few days, some of which are coming because of "the cancellation of other Valley field reservations," spokesperson Ann Porter said.

"Scottsdale is fully booked, and we are unable to accommodate these requests," Porter said._


----------



## keeprunning

oh canada said:


> Update from the other AZ cities (my gut tells me Surf will try to reschedule again to a holiday weekend in March/April):
> 
> _"Those options may be limited, though. Some surrounding communities, such as Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa and Peoria say they aren't accepting new tournament reservation requests right now. Scottsdale says it is fully booked. Buckeye, Goodyear, Surprise and Tucson are not allowing tournaments right now, according to research compiled by Phoenix."
> 
> "Glendale is taking applications for field rentals and reviewing them individually, according to Paul King, the city's recreation administrator. The city hasn't received new requests from tournament organizers in the past few days, he said.
> 
> Scottsdale has received requests from tournament organizers in the past few days, some of which are coming because of "the cancellation of other Valley field reservations," spokesperson Ann Porter said.
> 
> "Scottsdale is fully booked, and we are unable to accommodate these requests," Porter said._


Lots of other sports...


----------



## Grace T.

keeprunning said:


> I was told by my employer not to travel so I agree with Grace. I can't risk it.


Wow.  Didn't think I'd be right about this one.   Parades of horribles are usually  pointless speculation out of the warped minds of attorneys.


----------



## notintheface

Willie said:


> How do people on here know if a tournament is or is not carrying insurance for an event? Do  we know for sure Natives does not have insurance for the event?


A sanctioned tournament by Cal South must carry insurance. If your coach wants to go to some obscure unsanctioned tournament, just ask why.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> A sanctioned tournament by Cal South must carry insurance. If your coach wants to go to some obscure unsanctioned tournament, just ask why.


you didnt really answer the question you responded to.


----------



## timbuck

socalkdg said:


> Cal South made everyone sign a Covid release form as well.   They wouldn't have cared about grandma either.
> 
> 
> 
> https://calsouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/CSTF-RTP-Waiver-Participants-Final.pdf


That's because there is no insurance coverage for Pandemics.


----------



## notintheface

watfly said:


> From a business standpoint a tournament should absolutely carry insurance (and yes its a red flag for cutting corners if they dont), but to sue a tournament because your kid got hurt by some idiot kid that took him out is sad and pathetic, not to mention a likely loser in court.  Sue the kids parents if you want.  If you can't assume the inherent risks of injury from the actions of other players without suing 3rd parties then do us all a favor and don't participate in the sport.  Liability insurance and workers comp insurance are fundamentally different but I suspect you know that.  Now if the tournament allows play on gopher holed field or spreads out broken glass on the pitch than yes feel free to pursue the tournament's insurance.
> 
> I can empathize with a kid that gets injured and loses a soccer opportunity, but I can't empathize with parents that whine about not being able to fund college because their child lost a scholarship when they failed to setup a 529, or other savings, before their kid was even able to walk.


I agree with 90% of what you are saying. Don't ever count on a soccer scholarship. As you may or may not know, those kinds of personal injury lawsuits are designed to not go to court. They will settle 99.999% of the time, or head to arbitration. Starting legal action based upon actions in-game definitely gets into the coffee-is-hot side of our judicial system but again, it happens all the time. Signing up for a tournament which is unsanctioned and doesn't carry insurance is not worth the risk to you as a parent or your child as a player. While the free market for tournaments has been completely disrupted, all of these tournaments trying to pop up under the radar are moving forward like they're in some kind of a vacuum where people will just forget about all the shady shit post-vaccine.

"Oh yeah, that club went forward with throwing a tournament during the height of the pandemic and when a vast majority of their customers were exceedingly anxious about (everything)" is not something I would want associated with my club, but there we are.


----------



## notintheface

MSK357 said:


> you didnt really answer the question you responded to.


Sorry, the answer is "you know if the tournament is carrying insurance by seeing it on the list put out by Cal South." I thought that was more clear in my response but apologize if it wasn't.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> Sorry, the answer is "you know if the tournament is carrying insurance by seeing it on the list put out by Cal South." I thought that was more clear in my response but apologize if it wasn't.


so you cant really say natives doesnt have insurance.  Just that its not listed on cal south. just to be clear.


----------



## notintheface

MSK357 said:


> so you cant really say natives doesnt have insurance.  Just that its not listed on cal south. just to be clear.


I wasn't talking about any tournament specifically. I have no idea what's going down in Coachella nor do I really care-- from scanning their website it looks like a local rec level club going for a cash grab and it looks like they suckered Beach and Pats parents into it.


----------



## watfly

notintheface said:


> Signing up for a tournament which is unsanctioned and doesn't carry insurance is not worth the risk to you as a parent or your child as a player.
> 
> "Oh yeah, that club went forward with throwing a tournament during the height of the pandemic and when a vast majority of their customers were exceedingly anxious about (everything)" is not something I would want associated with my club, but there we are.


It would be worth the risk (which is incredibly low) to me and my child.  That's a decision each family has to make for themselves, I would support someone's decision either way.  I would never blame another party for me or my child catching Covid.  Getting infected with Covid is overwhelming based on your own actions and not the actions of others.  So unless a Covid positive TD is licking the complimentary water bottles, I will take responsibility for my own actions.

Now from a clubs standpoint that's an entirely different equation.  100% I would never recommend that a club host a tournament without the proper insurance and signed waivers (for whatever those are worth).

BTW our club isn't even registered with CalSouth, since we don't participate in any CalSouth sanctioned leagues.  There sanctioning is meaningless to us.


----------



## happy9

keeprunning said:


> Lots of other sports...


May be a staffing issue.  For the most part, soccer fields are soccer fields and do not have to share with another sport.   Plenty of baseball happening over new years weekend.  Gilbert is a big baseball town as is scottsdale, peoria, etc. 

Unlikely any city has planned to staff their fields to support a major tournament like Surf.  I don't see how they pull this off so last minute.  Mesa is also a big baseball town.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> I wasn't talking about any tournament specifically. I have no idea what's going down in Coachella nor do I really care-- from scanning their website it looks like a local rec level club going for a cash grab and it looks like they suckered Beach and Pats parents into it.


its the only place to play as a club without quarantining. im sure more clubs will be playing in the next tournament there now that nevada and arizona are done for a while. much better drive than arizona.


----------



## 3leches

RSL tournament cancelled;
The City of Phoenix has made the decision to close all parks and cancel all events for the foreseeable future and I am sorry to inform you that we are no longer able to accept out-of-states teams. Surf Cup will be cancelled


----------



## outside!

notintheface said:


> Starting legal action based upon actions in-game definitely gets into the coffee-is-hot side of our judicial system but again, it happens all the time.


Are you referring to the case against McDonalds for serving superheated coffee? If so, you don't know the details of the case. McDonalds was serving coffee in sealed cups that were pressure tight. They would reheat those cups in a microwave, causing the coffee to become superheated (hotter than the boiling temperature of water at atmospheric pressure). This caused the pressure in the sealed cup to increase, preventing the coffee from boiling. When the plaintiff broke the pressure seal by pushing the straw or stirrer (can't remember exactly) through the lid, the pressure in the cup dropped to atmospheric pressure causing the coffee to boil over and spew out of the cup under pressure. Everyone expects coffee to be hot, but they do not expect the coffee to spray out of the cup under pressure as the coffee boils over. The plaintiff received 3rd degree burns to their crotch and McDonalds justifiably lost that case. There are bad lawsuit cases out there, but this is not one of them.


----------



## ITFC Blues

I think you would still have to quarantine if you play those tournaments.  By travelling to a soccer tournament you are violating the CDPH Limit on Non Essential travel and your employer can likely force you to quarantine.  That order is in effect.  You would also be participating in a gathering with more than 3 households and would need to quarantine, even without the regional stay at home order in effect.  If clubs participate they are going against the local requirements which could violate their plans filed with the local health departments.


----------



## StrikerOC

ITFC Blues said:


> I think you would still have to quarantine if you play those tournaments.  By travelling to a soccer tournament you are violating the CDPH Limit on Non Essential travel and your employer can likely force you to quarantine.  That order is in effect.  You would also be participating in a gathering with more than 3 households and would need to quarantine, even without the regional stay at home order in effect.  If clubs participate they are going against the local requirements which could violate their plans filed with the local health departments.


I think you are under the assumption that most people care or respect these arbitrary rules put in place by state officials who don't even follow their own orders. I personally don't care about any stay at home order. This isn't about science anymore, this (covid) has become a religion to people in this country and lots of people on this message board. It's not about doing what's right by the kids or even following the science, to lots of people who are preaching about rules and lockdown restrictions it has become a part of their identity. I think that kind of mentality is weird and I would never let it dictate my decisions for myself or my family.


----------



## Lavey29

oh canada said:


> Update from the other AZ cities (Surf will likely try to reschedule again to a holiday weekend in March/April):
> 
> _"Those options may be limited, though. Some surrounding communities, such as Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa and Peoria say they aren't accepting new tournament reservation requests right now. Scottsdale says it is fully booked. Buckeye, Goodyear, Surprise and Tucson are not allowing tournaments right now, according to research compiled by Phoenix."
> 
> "Glendale is taking applications for field rentals and reviewing them individually, according to Paul King, the city's recreation administrator. The city hasn't received new requests from tournament organizers in the past few days, he said.
> 
> Scottsdale has received requests from tournament organizers in the past few days, some of which are coming because of "the cancellation of other Valley field reservations," spokesperson Ann Porter said.
> 
> "Scottsdale is fully booked, and we are unable to accommodate these requests," Porter said._


Your info is incorrect.  Surf cup coordinator emailed our club the correct info but keep on guessing.


----------



## nextgenathletics

StrikerOC said:


> I think you are under the assumption that most people care or respect these arbitrary rules put in place by state officials who don't even follow their own orders. I personally don't care about any stay at home order. This isn't about science anymore, this (covid) has become a religion to people in this country and lots of people on this message board. It's not about doing what's right by the kids or even following the science, to lots of people who are preaching about rules and lockdown restrictions it has become a part of their identity. I think that kind of mentality is weird and I would never let it dictate my decisions for myself or my family.


100%

It's fanatical now at this point. These tournaments are outdoors and people can wear masks. Ridiculous to enact all these authoritarian restrictions. It's psychotic and people are beginning to worship these talking political heads as prophets. It's disgusting.


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> Your info is incorrect.  Surf cup coordinator emailed our club the correct info but keep on guessing.


The info he provided is not incorrect.  Fields are hard to come by and Surf is struggling to get a cohesive plan in place that makes sense and provides good playing surfaces.   The loss of that many fields with lights is hard to make up. Surf will continue to string everyone along until the last minute, just like they've been doing all year.  I don't blame them, it's just what they've been doing. 

As an AZ native, I hope Surf just goes away.  I am not anti tournament, anti play, etc, but I'm a realist.  Let people finish hyperventilating over cases and then move on.  Come back and play in FEB, plenty of tournaments then.


----------



## Mad Hatter

Hitler Finds Out About Surf Cup
					

He finds out surf cup is cancelled and realizes there is no hope.




					www.captiongenerator.com


----------



## nocalmom

Lavey29 said:


> Your info is incorrect.  Surf cup coordinator emailed our club the correct info but keep on guessing.


When did your club receive an email with correct info?


----------



## oh canada

happy9 said:


> The info he provided is not incorrect.  Fields are hard to come by and Surf is struggling to get a cohesive plan in place that makes sense and provides good playing surfaces.   The loss of that many fields with lights is hard to make up. Surf will continue to string everyone along until the last minute, just like they've been doing all year.  I don't blame them, it's just what they've been doing.
> 
> As an AZ native, I hope Surf just goes away.  I am not anti tournament, anti play, etc, but I'm a realist.  Let people finish hyperventilating over cases and then move on.  Come back and play in FEB, plenty of tournaments then.


There's no doubting the skyrocketing cases and hospitalizations both here in Cali and in AZ.  More cases = more risk, regardless of your age, environment etc.  If we can all agree to that, then why not just let go of playing one particular soccer tournament in 4 weeks and plan on playing in another in 8-12 weeks (still likely in AZ unfortunately)?  I disagree with almost everything Newsom says, but I do think he got one thing right...we are in the 8th inning of this thing so just hang on a little longer and help our doctors and nurses save as many lives as possible.


----------



## Lavey29

nocalmom said:


> When did your club receive an email with correct info?


Got notified today


----------



## Lavey29

Mad Hatter said:


> Hitler Finds Out About Surf Cup
> 
> 
> He finds out surf cup is cancelled and realizes there is no hope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.captiongenerator.com


Kind of funny but more realistic is youth sports as the allied forces going against the hypocritical politicians as the german forces. Of course we know the outcome after a hard fought battle.


----------



## Grace T.

Lavey29 said:


> Kind of funny but more realistic is youth sports as the allied forces going against the hypocritical politicians as the german forces. Of course we know the outcome after a hard fought battle.


Part of the joke is that this is a well known meme that people have done about just about any subject where someone is losing and its practically over (everything from elections, to soccer contests, to the Rona).  You also have to have seen the underlying film, which is pretty good.


----------



## Lavey29

Grace T. said:


> Part of the joke is that this is a well known meme that people have done about just about any subject where someone is losing and its practically over (everything from elections, to soccer contests, to the Rona).  You also have to have seen the underlying film, which is pretty good.


I'm familiar with the meme uses in variations and also the film. I just gave my impression of the battle youth sports is having with nazi like hypocrites governing us.


----------



## espola

outside! said:


> Are you referring to the case against McDonalds for serving superheated coffee? If so, you don't know the details of the case. McDonalds was serving coffee in sealed cups that were pressure tight. They would reheat those cups in a microwave, causing the coffee to become superheated (hotter than the boiling temperature of water at atmospheric pressure). This caused the pressure in the sealed cup to increase, preventing the coffee from boiling. When the plaintiff broke the pressure seal by pushing the straw or stirrer (can't remember exactly) through the lid, the pressure in the cup dropped to atmospheric pressure causing the coffee to boil over and spew out of the cup under pressure. Everyone expects coffee to be hot, but they do not expect the coffee to spray out of the cup under pressure as the coffee boils over. The plaintiff received 3rd degree burns to their crotch and McDonalds justifiably lost that case. There are bad lawsuit cases out there, but this is not one of them.


And it wasn't the first lawsuit for hot coffee that MacDonals's had faced.  Their own witnesses were forced to admit that the cost of settlements of a few hundred dollars each (they had offered the lady in question $800 before trial) was insignificant compared to their coffee profits.


----------



## espola

StrikerOC said:


> I think you are under the assumption that most people care or respect these arbitrary rules put in place by state officials who don't even follow their own orders. I personally don't care about any stay at home order. This isn't about science anymore, this (covid) has become a religion to people in this country and lots of people on this message board. It's not about doing what's right by the kids or even following the science, to lots of people who are preaching about rules and lockdown restrictions it has become a part of their identity. I think that kind of mentality is weird and I would never let it dictate my decisions for myself or my family.


I have to agree that religious fervor adequately explains the willingness to ignore common sense.


----------



## happy9

oh canada said:


> There's no doubting the skyrocketing cases and hospitalizations both here in Cali and in AZ.  More cases = more risk, regardless of your age, environment etc.  If we can all agree to that, then why not just let go of playing one particular soccer tournament in 4 weeks and plan on playing in another in 8-12 weeks (still likely in AZ unfortunately)?  I disagree with almost everything Newsom says, but I do think he got one thing right...we are in the 8th inning of this thing so just hang on a little longer and help our doctors and nurses save as many lives as possible.


I don't want to derail this into another silly covid discussion but here I go. COVID spread and soccer are nearly unrelated.  The city of phoenix, in an act of yellow cowardliness (typical of politicians), went after the only thing it had the guts to go after - kids and their sports.  I don't disagree with Surf going away, for optics sake. But to shut down fields to club sports is beyond reasoning and doesn't follow "science".  The City of Phoenix council is an underperforming, overwhelmed group of people.  Plenty of organized club sports  will be played in AZ this weekend, none in Phoenix. 

Governments can walk and chew gum at the same time.  And maybe they just can't.  The inability to  understand problems and solve them is strong. 

The same appears to be true for any government body in the state of CA.  The fact that you are so constrained that you have to travel out of state to play a game is asinine. Feel free to round up your club parents and take a field trip to a strip club in San Diego - that's allowed.  Watching kids play soccer -->death awaits, watching a stripper -->instant immunity.  Maybe you should play futsal in a strip club, sans strippers.


----------



## Soccermompeach

Interesting where the "Hot spots" are.   AZ is worse case wise than California.  https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu


----------



## socalkdg

Enough of this insurance.

1 - Cal South Insurance or a tournaments insurance don't cover Covid.
2 - If you have you own insurance it is better than Cal South Insurance or the tournaments insurance in case of injury.


----------



## happy9

Soccermompeach said:


> Interesting where the "Hot spots" are.   AZ is worse case wise than California.  https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu


I know right, you guys should be hosting surf..

Positivity rates  going up, fatality rate coming down, for both states.  I know, I know, it's a capacity issue.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Soccermompeach said:


> Interesting where the "Hot spots" are.   AZ is worse case wise than California.  https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu


Give it a few weeks. Things will change. The west coast appears to be the last place to get hit in the season. Maybe we can avoid a big surge. Based on the case graphs, CA upswing started about a month after AZ. I don’t see an obvious turn slowing of the rise in CA yet. AZ started to show slowing of the rise a few days before Thanksgiving. The data around Thanksgiving is tough to interpret - lots of tests immediately prior, relatively few the days immediately after. Another week should help clarify whether either is near the top.


----------



## Jose has returned

Mad Hatter said:


> Hitler Finds Out About Surf Cup
> 
> 
> He finds out surf cup is cancelled and realizes there is no hope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.captiongenerator.com


That was beautiful.  Died laughing when @dad4 got mentioned.  well done!


----------



## LifeOfSoccer

Lavey29 said:


> Got notified today


So what did they say?


----------



## Kante

soccer4us said:


> This was sent by surf this morning to our team manager:
> 
> We were surprised by the City Council decision to cancel all tournaments in Phoenix for the foreseeable future as this really came out of nowhere. The ECNL event held in mid-November went off smoothly and without any issues. There has been no evidence that outdoor youth sporting events are super-spreader events or that they contribute to the rise in COVID cases within a city.
> 
> That being said, the city made the decision and now we have to take a moment to have a few discussions about Surf Cup. My inbox is flooded by people asking what's happening with the event. Please know that my communications will be with ALL accepted teams, not individual parents, managers or coaches. No one will have any information before anyone else.
> 
> We are sensitive to the travel arrangements that families have/are making but we need a little time to have discussions and explore options as we truly feel that these players need this event for more than just the soccer portion of what it brings but also for their physical and mental well being.
> The goal is to have a decision, and communicate that decision, by Friday, December 4th. A knee-jerk reaction or panicking to the City Council decision isn't the best way to manage this. We do have options. Still in AZ. Still close to Phoenix but not in Phoenix. We are working with those field owners as we speak and will have a plan in place, or a decision soon and I will communicate that as soon as we have it.
> 
> We continue to remain committed to having an event for these players. The event has actually become more important as these children have lost so much since COVID became a reality and they need something to look forward to that will bring smiles and laughter back to them after all they have been through.
> 
> Personally, I ask that you please give us today to sort through all of this and withhold the emails until I can communicate directly with everyone what the plan is. I know everyone is eager to know the plan and I won't withhold any information any longer than necessary.
> Please, keep your fingers and toes crossed and I will be in touch as soon as possible.
> 
> We appreciate your support and your willingness to hang in there with us through these challenges as we are all wanting to do something special for our children!
> 
> 
> 
> I figured they would exhaust all options before officially saying it's cancelled. I think it still get cancelled but never say never...


any additional news?


----------



## Soccer Cat

notintheface said:


> A sanctioned tournament by Cal South must carry insurance. If your coach wants to go to some obscure unsanctioned tournament, just ask why.


Well most of the big name clubs don’t seem worried about it.


----------



## timbuck

Mad Hatter said:


> Hitler Finds Out About Surf Cup
> 
> 
> He finds out surf cup is cancelled and realizes there is no hope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.captiongenerator.com


This is the best thing I have seen on the internet.  EVER!!  Thank you.


----------



## Calisoccer11

Mad Hatter said:


> Hitler Finds Out About Surf Cup
> 
> 
> He finds out surf cup is cancelled and realizes there is no hope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.captiongenerator.com


Bravo!  That was hilarious


----------



## Lavey29

LifeOfSoccer said:


> So what did they say?


Someone already posted their initial message to the clubs. They indicated a follow message would be forthcoming today.


----------



## zacksmack

So freaking funny. hope surf see this


----------



## watfly

outside! said:


> Are you referring to the case against McDonalds for serving superheated coffee? If so, you don't know the details of the case. McDonalds was serving coffee in sealed cups that were pressure tight. They would reheat those cups in a microwave, causing the coffee to become superheated (hotter than the boiling temperature of water at atmospheric pressure). This caused the pressure in the sealed cup to increase, preventing the coffee from boiling. When the plaintiff broke the pressure seal by pushing the straw or stirrer (can't remember exactly) through the lid, the pressure in the cup dropped to atmospheric pressure causing the coffee to boil over and spew out of the cup under pressure. Everyone expects coffee to be hot, but they do not expect the coffee to spray out of the cup under pressure as the coffee boils over. The plaintiff received 3rd degree burns to their crotch and McDonalds justifiably lost that case. There are bad lawsuit cases out there, but this is not one of them.


Are you sure about that?  I've never heard any reference to the pressure shooting the coffee out the cup.  My understanding was that she removed lid to add cream or sugar and spilled.  Not saying it isn't true, I just have never heard that theory of the case.


----------



## soccer4us

And for more fun.....



As promised, the update......

Despite the City Council vote to close the REACH 11 Complex, we believe we have a solution and therefore *Surf Cup AZ (youngers and olders) is ON!* We still have the Scottsdale Sports Complex for our event and there is no indication that the venue will close.

We have had overwhelming support from our friends in AZ in providing us options to hold the event in and around the Phoenix area (in areas NOT closed) and therefore, we are sending staff to Phoenix this weekend to check out our options so we can formulate our plan.

That plan will be communicated to all of you early next week. We have a lot to adjust in a very short amount of time but we want to do everything we can to make sure we can get your players back out on the fields playing the game they love.

We continue to be sensitive to what's going on in CA and part of the plan will be options for teams that feel it's in their best interest to not travel to AZ for the events so please wait until we communicate our plan, and your options, early next week before making a decision.

We will also work with each of the cities on their COVID protocols, which may be different by venue and, once confirmed by city/venue, that information will be communicated as well.

As the ECNL event is ongoing in SC right now and TX teams continue on with their league seasons (as do many other states) we want the same for the players coming to our events too so we are choosing to move forward and offer the events!

Look for a detailed communication early next week!

Thank you for your continued support!


----------



## surf&donuts

Yeah! Go Surf!!!!


----------



## Lavey29

soccer4us said:


> And for more fun.....
> 
> 
> 
> As promised, the update......
> 
> Despite the City Council vote to close the REACH 11 Complex, we believe we have a solution and therefore *Surf Cup AZ (youngers and olders) is ON!* We still have the Scottsdale Sports Complex for our event and there is no indication that the venue will close.
> 
> We have had overwhelming support from our friends in AZ in providing us options to hold the event in and around the Phoenix area (in areas NOT closed) and therefore, we are sending staff to Phoenix this weekend to check out our options so we can formulate our plan.
> 
> That plan will be communicated to all of you early next week. We have a lot to adjust in a very short amount of time but we want to do everything we can to make sure we can get your players back out on the fields playing the game they love.
> 
> We continue to be sensitive to what's going on in CA and part of the plan will be options for teams that feel it's in their best interest to not travel to AZ for the events so please wait until we communicate our plan, and your options, early next week before making a decision.
> 
> We will also work with each of the cities on their COVID protocols, which may be different by venue and, once confirmed by city/venue, that information will be communicated as well.
> 
> As the ECNL event is ongoing in SC right now and TX teams continue on with their league seasons (as do many other states) we want the same for the players coming to our events too so we are choosing to move forward and offer the events!
> 
> Look for a detailed communication early next week!
> 
> Thank you for your continued support!



This will probably make a few sheeps heads on here explode now.


----------



## Speed

socalkdg said:


> Enough of this insurance.
> 
> 1 - Cal South Insurance or a tournaments insurance don't cover Covid.
> 2 - If you have you own insurance it is better than Cal South Insurance or the tournaments insurance in case of injury.


honestly this Cal South insurance or tournament insurance is challenging for me to understand. What is it for? We have always carried our own health insurance and have no reason to sue anyone unless there is severe negligence. I know there is a pandemic and I know I can educate my kid on how to stay safe. If I choose for them to play its on me. I am not going to sue anyone for COVID. what am I missing?


----------



## El Clasico

outside! said:


> Are you referring to the case against McDonalds for serving superheated coffee? If so, you don't know the details of the case. McDonalds was serving coffee in sealed cups that were pressure tight. They would reheat those cups in a microwave, causing the coffee to become superheated (hotter than the boiling temperature of water at atmospheric pressure). This caused the pressure in the sealed cup to increase, preventing the coffee from boiling. When the plaintiff broke the pressure seal by pushing the straw or stirrer (can't remember exactly) through the lid, the pressure in the cup dropped to atmospheric pressure causing the coffee to boil over and spew out of the cup under pressure. Everyone expects coffee to be hot, but they do not expect the coffee to spray out of the cup under pressure as the coffee boils over. The plaintiff received 3rd degree burns to their crotch and McDonalds justifiably lost that case. There are bad lawsuit cases out there, but this is not one of them.


Are you sure that you are remembering the case correctly?


----------



## espola

Speed said:


> honestly this Cal South insurance or tournament insurance is challenging for me to understand. What is it for? We have always carried our own health insurance and have no reason to sue anyone unless there is severe negligence. I know there is a pandemic and I know I can educate my kid on how to stay safe. If I choose for them to play its on me. I am not going to sue anyone for COVID. what am I missing?


The medical insurance is almost useless as other posters have pointed out, but the liability insurance is priceless.  The Cal South tournament sanctioning process in which tournament organizers prove (or at least promise) to play by the rules Cal South sets up makes that insurance affordable to Cal South.  No rational insurer will get involved with an organization that can't follow its own rules or influence their affiliated organizations (clubs, teams, tournaments, etc) to do the smae.


----------



## espola

watfly said:


> Are you sure about that?  I've never heard any reference to the pressure shooting the coffee out the cup.  My understanding was that she removed lid to add cream or sugar and spilled.  Not saying it isn't true, I just have never heard that theory of the case.


The story based on court testimony is that McDonald's served the coffee at a temperature hot enough to cause scalding burns (180° - 190° F) because customers had complained about coffee getting cold before they could drink it.


----------



## watfly

espola said:


> The story based on court testimony is that McDonald's served the coffee at a temperature hot enough to cause scalding burns (180° - 190° F) because customers had complained about coffee getting cold before they could drink it.


Yes thats my understanding of what happened.  Never heard the pressure theory alleged.


----------



## watfly

Speed said:


> I am not going to sue anyone for COVID. what am I missing?


Obedience to a narrative.


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> This will probably make a few sheeps heads on here explode now.


sheep is in the eye of the beholder as their are Surf sheep present in the wild as well.   I do admire their tenacity and respect that they are likely fighting for their financial survival. 

We will see what happens.  Maybe this turns into an AZ  only Surf Cup, the beginning of a tradition. Time will tell if CA clubs have the ganas to travel to AZ under strict restrictions only to come back again in a month, but play on better fields.


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> sheep is in the eye of the beholder as their are Surf sheep present in the wild as well.   I do admire their tenacity and respect that they are likely fighting for their financial survival.
> 
> We will see what happens.  Maybe this turns into an AZ  only Surf Cup, the beginning of a tradition. Time will tell if CA clubs have the ganas to travel to AZ under strict restrictions only to come back again in a month, but play on better fields.



The beholder and myself see the sheep clearly on here. Looking forward to a great tournament.  Arizona has some terrific cities, hotels and restaurants which I'm sure could use a little economic boost during the china virus lock downs. They also have some great soccer venues. Looking forward to some great competitive matches.


----------



## chiefs

happy9 said:


> sheep is in the eye of the beholder as their are Surf sheep present in the wild as well.   I do admire their tenacity and respect that they are likely fighting for their financial survival.
> 
> We will see what happens.  Maybe this turns into an AZ  only Surf Cup, the beginning of a tradition. Time will tell if CA clubs have the ganas to travel to AZ under strict restrictions only to come back again in a month, but play on better fields.


It will be a great success if they pull it off.  Nobody can  trust what Gavin will do with youth sports now or in the future.  No leadership results in people doing what’s best for their family or company.   In fact, Gavin does absolutely nothing for kids ; he only rules against them in everything.


----------



## tjinaz

chiefs said:


> It will be a great success if they pull it off.  Nobody can  trust what Gavin will do with youth sports now or in the future.  No leadership results in people doing what’s best for their family or company.   In fact, Gavin does absolutely nothing for kids ; he only rules against them in everything.


Oh you never know.  He ignores the dining out rules he very well may have a kid in the tournament.  We will keep an eye our for him... rules for thee.. not for me seems how Cali Politicos roll.


----------



## Soccerfan2

outside! said:


> Are you referring to the case against McDonalds for serving superheated coffee? If so, you don't know the details of the case. McDonalds was serving coffee in sealed cups that were pressure tight. They would reheat those cups in a microwave, causing the coffee to become superheated (hotter than the boiling temperature of water at atmospheric pressure). This caused the pressure in the sealed cup to increase, preventing the coffee from boiling. When the plaintiff broke the pressure seal by pushing the straw or stirrer (can't remember exactly) through the lid, the pressure in the cup dropped to atmospheric pressure causing the coffee to boil over and spew out of the cup under pressure. Everyone expects coffee to be hot, but they do not expect the coffee to spray out of the cup under pressure as the coffee boils over. The plaintiff received 3rd degree burns to their crotch and McDonalds justifiably lost that case. There are bad lawsuit cases out there, but this is not one of them.


This was one of my case studies in law school.


----------



## notintheface

Speed said:


> honestly this Cal South insurance or tournament insurance is challenging for me to understand. What is it for? We have always carried our own health insurance and have no reason to sue anyone unless there is severe negligence. I know there is a pandemic and I know I can educate my kid on how to stay safe. If I choose for them to play its on me. I am not going to sue anyone for COVID. what am I missing?


Do you remember the reports of the guy supposedly possessing a gun at Galway Downs? Do you think the tournament offered effective enough security to prevent that? Do you think that there are families who believed that the tournament didn't offer effective enough security? There's your answer. I'm not talking covid, I'm talking about run of the mill day to day tournament liability. This kind of random shit happens way way way more often than you think. Basically every time you hear an ambulance pull up, guess what's going to happen.


----------



## notintheface

soccer4us said:


> We still have the Scottsdale Sports Complex for our event and there is no indication that the venue will close.


Looking at the map, there are six 11v11 fields and four 9v9 fields (presumably you cut one of those in half for two 7v7 fields).

That nets you what, a maximum of 140 teams or so. I'm going to guess there are going to be a few teams getting refunds next week, good luck with those credit card fees.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> Do you remember the reports of the guy supposedly possessing a gun at Galway Downs? Do you think the tournament offered effective enough security to prevent that? Do you think that there are families who believed that the tournament didn't offer effective enough security? There's your answer. I'm not talking covid, I'm talking about run of the mill day to day tournament liability. This kind of random shit happens way way way more often than you think. Basically every time you hear an ambulance pull up, guess what's going to happen.


Thats hilarious that you would bring up the guy that brought a gun to a tournament. What cal south tournament for youth soccer have you been to that would have provided enough security to prevent that? I have yet to attend a tournament with metal detectors at a controlled entrance with armed guards lol.


----------



## crush

chiefs said:


> It will be a great success if they pull it off.  Nobody can  trust what Gavin will do with youth sports now or in the future.  No leadership results in people doing what’s best for their family or company.   In fact, Gavin does absolutely* nothing for kids* ; he only rules against them in everything.


What about the kids?  Selfish people take care of their "own" needs first.


----------



## whatithink

notintheface said:


> Looking at the map, there are six 11v11 fields and four 9v9 fields (presumably you cut one of those in half for two 7v7 fields).
> 
> That nets you what, a maximum of 140 teams or so. I'm going to guess there are going to be a few teams getting refunds next week, good luck with those credit card fees.


SSC has 10 (4 with lights) 11 v 11 fields. Those fields normally shut down at the end of the year until after the Phoenix (Golf) open. They are used as a parking lot and for various corporate activities.

I expect Surf are touring Mesa today looking at Red Mountain (6), Quail Run (4), Desert Sky (4) and Santos (4-5).

Another metro city (Tempe) closed their fields.

Of more importance to the metro cities is getting everything under control before baseball pre season which is huge and has a far larger financial impact to the cities. If I were in charge of those cities, and looking at this from a financial perspective, I'd be telling Surf to gtfoh.


----------



## whatithink

whatithink said:


> SSC has 10 (4 with lights) 11 v 11 fields. Those fields normally shut down at the end of the year until after the Phoenix (Golf) open. They are used as a parking lot and for various corporate activities.
> 
> I expect Surf are touring Mesa today looking at Red Mountain (6), Quail Run (4), Desert Sky (4) and Santos (4-5).
> 
> Another metro city (Tempe) closed their fields.
> 
> Of more importance to the metro cities is getting everything under control before baseball pre season which is huge and has a far larger financial impact to the cities. If I were in charge of those cities, and looking at this from a financial perspective, I'd be telling Surf to gtfoh.


To add, Stadium and Team Directory | Phoenix.org, 15 teams for a month of daily games vs Surf ...


----------



## happy9

notintheface said:


> Looking at the map, there are six 11v11 fields and four 9v9 fields (presumably you cut one of those in half for two 7v7 fields).
> 
> That nets you what, a maximum of 140 teams or so. I'm going to guess there are going to be a few teams getting refunds next week, good luck with those credit card fees.


For the olders, there are 10 fields, only 4 under lights.


----------



## Soccer43

Mad Hatter said:


> Hitler Finds Out About Surf Cup
> 
> 
> He finds out surf cup is cancelled and realizes there is no hope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.captiongenerator.com


I am just dying - this is hilarious!


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> The beholder and myself see the sheep clearly on here. Looking forward to a great tournament.  Arizona has some terrific cities, hotels and restaurants which I'm sure could use a little economic boost during the china virus lock downs. They also have some great soccer venues. Looking forward to some great competitive matches.


Good use of words and I appreciate your resistance to being a sheep.  And yes, plenty of OK soccer venues throughout the valley. The reality is, none compare to Reach, except maybe Scottsdale Sports complex (within the phoenix metro area), which has less fields by far.  There are others that have good field surfaces, there are many that aren't currently being maintained and have dead grass.

They will be challenged to get this in (I'm a realist).  Quality of fields is a big deal (maybe).  If they pull it off, I have a player who will play, the other will sit this one out.  If they don't pull it off, that's fine also.  I'll enjoy a new year's eve weekend not having to worry about a soccer tournament.  Heaven knows I've been to many and have many more coming my way.  

good luck.


----------



## lafalafa

happy9 said:


> Good use of words and I appreciate your resistance to being a sheep.  And yes, plenty of OK soccer venues throughout the valley. The reality is, none compare to Reach, except maybe Scottsdale Sports complex (within the phoenix metro area), which has less fields by far.  There are others that have good field surfaces, there are many that aren't currently being maintained and have dead grass.
> 
> They will be challenged to get this in (I'm a realist).  Quality of fields is a big deal (maybe).  If they pull it off, I have a player who will play, the other will sit this one out.  If they don't pull it off, that's fine also.  I'll enjoy a new year's eve weekend not having to worry about a soccer tournament.  Heaven knows I've been to many and have many more coming my way.
> 
> good luck.


I just hope surf doesn't pull the rainout surprise and tell everyone at at the last minute that due to field availability teams will getting two shortened games with 20min half's.   

Nothing like spending the big bucks and the whole weekend for 80min worth of soccer. 

Lighted fields seem like a must given the time of year and number of teams.


----------



## whatithink

lafalafa said:


> I just hope surf doesn't pull the rainout surprise and tell everyone at at the last minute that due to field availability teams will getting two shortened games with 20min half's.
> 
> Nothing like spending the big bucks and the whole weekend for 80min worth of soccer.
> 
> Lighted fields seem like a must given the time of year and number of teams.


All the Mesa fields I mentioned above have lights. If Mesa closes fields, they are done, IMO.


----------



## Spfister

I actually think Surf is totally in the wrong to have this… Hospital capacity in Arizona is at max and healthcare workers are screaming for relief. I’m not a Covid shut in fanatic, think so much about Covid is overblown,  and think that many of the lockdowns are absolutely ridiculous… But really in the middle of this to be holding a tournament when healthcare workers in Arizona are at their breaking limit is really just a slap in the face to them.


----------



## watfly

notintheface said:


> Do you remember the reports of the guy supposedly possessing a gun at Galway Downs? Do you think the tournament offered effective enough security to prevent that? Do you think that there are families who believed that the tournament didn't offer effective enough security? There's your answer. I'm not talking covid, I'm talking about run of the mill day to day tournament liability. This kind of random shit happens way way way more often than you think. Basically every time you hear an ambulance pull up, guess what's going to happen.


Do you really expect that level of security at a soccer tournament?  So strictly controlled access points with metal detectors and bag inspection?  Get ready to pay 50x more for a soccer tournament.  Personally I'd rather assume the risk, pay regular tournament prices and not look for someone else to blame for my choices and for things that are realistically out of a 3rd parties control.

To answer your question about guess what's going to happen?  You're obviously going to pursue the tournament's insurance and/or sue.


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> Good use of words and I appreciate your resistance to being a sheep.  And yes, plenty of OK soccer venues throughout the valley. The reality is, none compare to Reach, except maybe Scottsdale Sports complex (within the phoenix metro area), which has less fields by far.  There are others that have good field surfaces, there are many that aren't currently being maintained and have dead grass.
> 
> They will be challenged to get this in (I'm a realist).  Quality of fields is a big deal (maybe).  If they pull it off, I have a player who will play, the other will sit this one out.  If they don't pull it off, that's fine also.  I'll enjoy a new year's eve weekend not having to worry about a soccer tournament.  Heaven knows I've been to many and have many more coming my way.
> 
> good luck.



Kid did a few work out sessions at the Scottsdale complex 2 months ago. I thought it was an excellent venue but yes a few more fields would be nice but when I drive around the cities outside of Phoenix   I see a lot of quality soccer fields. Its apparent that region of Arizona appreciates and endorses their soccer really well. Probably why they field a number of top level competitive teams in the higher level leagues. I do agree the surf tournament directors will be somewhat logistically challenged but I'm sure they will receive coordinated help from the Arizona clubs. That's one thing cool about soccer is that different clubs in different regions and even different states typically dont hesitate to help another club if the situation calls for it. It really is a united overall effort around the country to make youth soccer successful and a positive experience for the kids. Even more so now with the China virus


----------



## oh canada

Spfister said:


> I actually think Surf is totally in the wrong to have this… Hospital capacity in Arizona is at max and healthcare workers are screaming for relief. I’m not a Covid shut in fanatic, think so much about Covid is overblown,  and think that many of the lockdowns are absolutely ridiculous… But really in the middle of this to be holding a tournament when healthcare workers in Arizona are at their breaking limit is really just a slap in the face to them.


Either ego or financial impact (maybe both) is blinding Surf Cup execs from prudent decision-making now.  It is not the time to fight for playing soccer.  July through October was, and they did, and I give them credit for doing so.  March/April will be as well.  But trying to play now--in the midst of CA stay-at-home orders, non-essential travel bans, the biggest wave of cases yet in both CA and AZ, cities in AZ closing down fields, hospital beds filled to near capacity in both AZ and CA, a D1 college recruiting prohibition, and a guarantee of worse to come by Jan. 1--seriously damages their credibility for any future advocating in the best interest of the kids and diminishes their perception as a reputable outfit.  They would be an important voice for all of us soccer families when it's time to try to get back local scrimmages and local league games in the Spring--guaranteed that will be a fight with Newsom too.  But taking a stand now on this one tournament will complicate and weaken their future positions.  City of Phoenix even gave them an out to use as explanation to the crazy soccer parent crowd, but it looks like they're not going to take it.  Very indulgent, short-sighted, and lacking in business savvy.     

Last, the local AZ drumbeat will just keep getting louder over the next several weeks with more sentiment like the following...

_"All Arizona cities should follow the lead of Phoenix and cancel athletic tournaments because of the COVID-19 situation, a clinical leader at Arizona's largest health system says. "_









						Health leader: Other cities should follow Phoenix and cancel sports events because of COVID-19
					

Patient occupancy in January could reach 150% of Banner Health's licensed bed capacity, a leader at Arizona's largest health system says.



					www.azcentral.com
				




Has Surf been holding Surf Cup team deposits since July?  Hmmmm, if so, that adds another layer of intrigue but will save for another thread.


----------



## lafalafa

oh canada said:


> Either ego or financial impact (maybe both) is blinding Surf Cup execs from prudent decision-making now.  It is not the time to fight for playing soccer.  July through October was, and they did, and I give them credit for doing so.  March/April will be as well.  But trying to play now--in the midst of CA stay-at-home orders, non-essential travel bans, the biggest wave of cases yet in both CA and AZ, cities in AZ closing down fields, hospital beds filled to near capacity in both AZ and CA, a D1 college recruiting prohibition, and a guarantee of worse to come by Jan. 1--seriously damages their credibility for any future advocating in the best interest of the kids and diminishes their perception as a reputable outfit.  They would be an important voice for all of us soccer families when it's time to try to get back local scrimmages and local league games in the Spring--guaranteed that will be a fight with Newsom too.  But taking a stand now on this one tournament will complicate and weaken their future positions.  City of Phoenix even gave them an out to use as explanation to the crazy soccer parent crowd, but it looks like they're not going to take it.  Very indulgent, short-sighted, and lacking in business savvy.
> 
> Last, the local AZ drumbeat will just keep getting louder over the next several weeks with more sentiment like the following...
> 
> _"All Arizona cities should follow the lead of Phoenix and cancel athletic tournaments because of the COVID-19 situation, a clinical leader at Arizona's largest health system says. "_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Health leader: Other cities should follow Phoenix and cancel sports events because of COVID-19
> 
> 
> Patient occupancy in January could reach 150% of Banner Health's licensed bed capacity, a leader at Arizona's largest health system says.
> 
> 
> 
> www.azcentral.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has Surf been holding Surf Cup team deposits since July?  Hmmmm, if so, that adds another layer of intrigue but will save for another thread.


No on the holding the money thing.  Teams had to reapply no roll over.

Sure they make a decent profit on there tournaments but at this point hard to say that's there primary motivation. 

They really want the kids to play and even referenced other events like ECNL Phx and others going on now and feel CA players should get some opportunities to do so also.


----------



## notintheface

watfly said:


> Do you really expect that level of security at a soccer tournament?  So strictly controlled access points with metal detectors and bag inspection?  Get ready to pay 50x more for a soccer tournament.  Personally I'd rather assume the risk, pay regular tournament prices and not look for someone else to blame for my choices and for things that are realistically out of a 3rd parties control.
> 
> To answer your question about guess what's going to happen?  You're obviously going to pursue the tournament's insurance and/or sue.


You are completely missing the point, which was about the insurance to cover the inevitable lawsuits that come out of random situations. YOU are not a special little snowflake who everyone else should look up to with their behavior because once it's your kid, guess what, all of these words that you're typing to desperately defend shitty tournament directors, all of those words go out the window.

Please stop trying to stick up for con men.


----------



## notintheface

Lavey29 said:


> I'm sure they will receive coordinated help from the Arizona clubs. That's one thing cool about soccer is that different clubs in different regions and even different states typically dont hesitate to help another club if the situation calls for it.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You are out of your fucking mind.


----------



## whatithink

lafalafa said:


> No on the holding the money thing.  Teams had to reapply no roll over.
> 
> Sure they make a decent profit on there tournaments but at this point hard to say that's there primary motivation.
> 
> They really want the kids to play and even referenced other events like ECNL Phx and others going on now and feel CA players should get some opportunities to do so also.


Surf Sports is a for profit company. They run the tournaments to make profit, the more the better. They have diluted their "brand" (best of the best) over the last few years specifically chasing profit - its been commented on multiple times by multiple posters on this forum. Their references to ECNL etc are marketing efforts.



Lavey29 said:


> That's one thing cool about soccer is that different clubs in different regions and even different states typically dont hesitate to help another club if the situation calls for it.


They are working with RSL-AZ afaik, and in return RSL-AZ expects acceptance of their teams (now and in the future I'd expect).


----------



## ITFC Blues

You do realize that it is the California Department of Public Health that is making the restrictions and Gavin Newsom is taking their recommendation?  The CDPH is asking people to act for the greater good and not to make decisions based on their personal desires.  The issue is not reality with the playing of games.  The issue is with people leaving their local area and spreading the virus to other areas, or bringing it back from another area.  If people have to skip a meaningless soccer tournament that's not a huge sacrifice.  All of the tournaments are diluted and don't reflect reality so they are not a measure of anything right now.  Players aren't in condition, have guest players, are missing players, etc.  Surf keeps saying the coaches requested the tournament and that's why they are holding it, which I find hard to believe.  This is about Surf and their financial needs and their ego.  People can go ahead and ignore the state's order / request but should at least respect the request to quarantine for 14 days upon their return, and stay in their house for the full 14 days.  Stock up on groceries in Arizona and bring them home and shut the door.


----------



## Jose has returned

Spfister said:


> I actually think Surf is totally in the wrong to have this… Hospital capacity in Arizona is at max and healthcare workers are screaming for relief. I’m not a Covid shut in fanatic, think so much about Covid is overblown,  and think that many of the lockdowns are absolutely ridiculous… But really in the middle of this to be holding a tournament when healthcare workers in Arizona are at their breaking limit is really just a slap in the face to them.


if they all travel from out of state they won't be AZ problem


----------



## socalkdg

Shutting down outdoor sports is increasing the spread of the virus.  Family get together with friends and watch the kids play.  Very little chance of spreading based on data.   Now they can't go outside.   Some may just stay in their home and isolate.  But we know for a fact that this doesn't always happen. Others will bring that group that was going to spend time together outside indoors to their homes.   We see that happening as the weather is getting colder cases are going up because people are heading indoors.  People are social and many will get together with friends and relatives.    


"And if there is one thing we can definitively state, it’s that this virus is much, much less likely to spread outdoors than in. For example, in a study of 7,324 Chinese case reports, only two — part of the same transmission event — could be linked to outdoor settings. A database of more than 20,000 cases (including the 7,324 Chinese cases) found 461 that were associated with transmission in completely outdoor environments — predominantly crowded events like markets and rallies. Overall, only 6 percent of all the cases in that database were linked to events that were either totally or partially outdoors. The rest were tied to indoor events. *That fact is actually why experts are concerned that fall and winter could lead to an increase in transmission — not because it’s colder, but because people are spending more time inside.* "


----------



## Kante

socalkdg said:


> Shutting down outdoor sports is increasing the spread of the virus.  Family get together with friends and watch the kids play.  Very little chance of spreading based on data.   Now they can't go outside.   Some may just stay in their home and isolate.  But we know for a fact that this doesn't always happen. Others will bring that group that was going to spend time together outside indoors to their homes.   We see that happening as the weather is getting colder cases are going up because people are heading indoors.  People are social and many will get together with friends and relatives.
> 
> 
> "And if there is one thing we can definitively state, it’s that this virus is much, much less likely to spread outdoors than in. For example, in a study of 7,324 Chinese case reports, only two — part of the same transmission event — could be linked to outdoor settings. A database of more than 20,000 cases (including the 7,324 Chinese cases) found 461 that were associated with transmission in completely outdoor environments — predominantly crowded events like markets and rallies. Overall, only 6 percent of all the cases in that database were linked to events that were either totally or partially outdoors. The rest were tied to indoor events. *That fact is actually why experts are concerned that fall and winter could lead to an increase in transmission — not because it’s colder, but because people are spending more time inside.* "


where's the quoted statement from? (like it, and agree with it but curious about the cource)


----------



## socalkdg

Kante said:


> where's the quoted statement from? (like it, and agree with it but curious about the cource)











						What A Summer Of COVID-19 Taught Scientists About Indoor vs. Outdoor Transmission
					

Here we are, almost eight months into this pandemic, and it’s like you can’t even invite more than 150 people to sit next to each other unmasked in your rose ga…




					fivethirtyeight.com
				












						Rapid Scoping Review of Evidence of Outdoor Transmission of COVID-19
					

The COVID-19 pandemic is both a global health crisis, and a civic emergency for national governments, including the UK. As countries across the world loosen their lockdown restrictions, the assumption is generally made that the risk of COVID-19 transmission is lower outdoors, and this assumption...




					www.medrxiv.org


----------



## oh canada

lafalafa said:


> No on the holding the money thing.  Teams had to reapply no roll over.


Good.


----------



## Spfister

Jose has returned said:


> if they all travel from out of state they won't be AZ problem


Understood. But their complaint is that we bring it in and infect their residents and then they are stuck with the infections.


----------



## Jose has returned

Jose has returned said:


> That was beautiful.  Died laughing when @dad4 got mentioned.  well done!


 this is so funny of the 400 views i think I've done 300 of them


----------



## Spfister

oh canada said:


> Good.


THEY DID HOLD THE MONEY!!  Teams has to reapply but the held the money and just applied that money to the new application. We paid back in May and have not seen one sent back.


----------



## 46n2

Im optimistic and hope that they can make it happen for the kids (and us parents). 

Quick question are they wording it correctly 

YOU CANNOT GO OUT OF STATE   or ITS RECOMMENDED NOT TO GO OUT OF STATE.

After to going to AZ multiple times, I believe it will happen , and if it gets cancelled I wont be suprised but Im a half full type of person.

Lastly this Natives FC place that everyone is going goo goo gaga over is 100% taking advantage of the money making opportunity presented to them and others(So whats the difference there) , Surf is no different , always been a fun tournament with goods teams and I hope it stay that way somehow.

I hope Surf can pull thru and and make it happen somehow.


----------



## GT45

Spfister said:


> THEY DID HOLD THE MONEY!!  Teams has to reapply but the held the money and just applied that money to the new application. We paid back in May and have not seen one sent back.


Nah that is not true. They only posted it on credit cards the past few weeks as they accepted teams to the January event. They never charged for the earlier event. If you were not accepted you never were charged. Let's not post untruths.


----------



## 46n2

and good for Natives FC as well, not knocking them just at all.  If I was smart Id open a facility with 6 futsal fields in OC and copy US5 and charge every thru the nose .


----------



## GT45

ITFC Blues said:


> You do realize that it is the California Department of Public Health that is making the restrictions and Gavin Newsom is taking their recommendation?  The CDPH is asking people to act for the greater good and not to make decisions based on their personal desires.  The issue is not reality with the playing of games.  The issue is with people leaving their local area and spreading the virus to other areas, or bringing it back from another area.  If people have to skip a meaningless soccer tournament that's not a huge sacrifice.  All of the tournaments are diluted and don't reflect reality so they are not a measure of anything right now.  Players aren't in condition, have guest players, are missing players, etc.  Surf keeps saying the coaches requested the tournament and that's why they are holding it, which I find hard to believe.  This is about Surf and their financial needs and their ego.  People can go ahead and ignore the state's order / request but should at least respect the request to quarantine for 14 days upon their return, and stay in their house for the full 14 days.  Stock up on groceries in Arizona and bring them home and shut the door.


Surf had a an overwhelming number of applications. Teams want to go. If your team is not in shape, maybe your kids/coach need to get after it. My kid's team is just fine. Played games, healthy. Properly trained. No need for guest players. Attendance is nearly perfect. It sounds like your team was not accepted and you are now sour grapes. Kids mental health is worth a lot to people. If Newsom let us play games in state we would not have to leave. He is pushing us to travel.


----------



## Chalklines

46n2 said:


> Im optimistic and hope that they can make it happen for the kids (and us parents).
> 
> Quick question are they wording it correctly
> 
> YOU CANNOT GO OUT OF STATE   or ITS RECOMMENDED NOT TO GO OUT OF STATE.
> 
> After to going to AZ multiple times, I believe it will happen , and if it gets cancelled I wont be suprised but Im a half full type of person.
> 
> Lastly this Natives FC place that everyone is going goo goo gaga over is 100% taking advantage of the money making opportunity presented to them and others(So whats the difference there) , Surf is no different , always been a fun tournament with goods teams and I hope it stay that way somehow.
> 
> I hope Surf can pull thru and and make it happen somehow.


Just wait until CNN runs with the story again. The liberal media will be seeking jail time for the Directors of Surf Cup.


----------



## watfly

notintheface said:


> You are completely missing the point, which was about the insurance to cover the inevitable lawsuits that come out of random situations. YOU are not a special little snowflake who everyone else should look up to with their behavior because once it's your kid, guess what, all of these words that you're typing to desperately defend shitty tournament directors, all of those words go out the window.
> 
> Please stop trying to stick up for con men.


Not what I'm saying.  Clubs have a responsibility to obtain liability insurance for tournaments.  Parents need to take responsibility for their own choices and risks.  I know its part of the entitlement culture to play the victim and look for someone to blame (with deep pockets or insurance), but I wish it would stop.

You have no clue about what I would do or not do.  My daughter was born premature and had to be resuscitated at birth from a botched amnio by the doctor in addition to cutting her head open in the crash C section ( a scar she still has but fortunately hidden along her hairline).  I could have easily walked away with $$$ but chose not to pursue the matter.


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> * I do agree the surf tournament directors will be somewhat logistically challenged but I'm sure they will receive coordinated help from the Arizona clubs. That's one thing cool about soccer is that different clubs in different regions and even different states typically dont hesitate to help another club if the situation calls for it. *It really is a united overall effort around the country to make youth soccer successful and a positive experience for the kids. Even more so now with the China virus


Yea, not happening.  RSL - AZ may be interested but many  clubs will likely not lift a finger to help administrate this thing.  This is a nice to have, not a must have.  The  collateral damage of having Surf could jeopardize AZ run tournaments in FEB.  I would wager that many AZ clubs wouldn't have their feelings hurt if Surf just went away.
Every public health official in AZ is saying this is a bad idea. ICU beds today are at 92%.  Cannon fodder for our media.  Hospitals don't make as much money when their ICU beds are full of CV19 patients.  They are screaming about this as well, but don't be mistaken, they are screaming because they don't want to draw down on elective surgeries and have to expand bed capacity.  Spend money to not make money is not their thing.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that Surf is just being an a$$hole and a bully. And it goes without saying that I am a fan of playing.


----------



## ITFC Blues

GT45 said:


> Surf had a an overwhelming number of applications. Teams want to go. If your team is not in shape, maybe your kids/coach need to get after it. My kid's team is just fine. Played games, healthy. Properly trained. No need for guest players. Attendance is nearly perfect. *It sounds like your team was not accepted and you are now sour grapes*. Kids mental health is worth a lot to people. If Newsom let us play games in state we would not have to leave. He is pushing us to travel.


No, I just choose to teach my children that sometimes you have to make difficult decisions and not to let FOMO for them or their parents drive their decision.  Surf had an overwhelming number of applicants because every other tournament in California was cancelled.  Davis Legacy appears to have finally given up and decided all tournaments are cancelled until May 2021.  Again, if people choose to act in their self interest and travel to AZ without respecting tomorrow's lockdown for Southern California it's their decision to make.  All others ask is that they respect the guidelines and quarantine upon their return, including staying away from work, stocking up on food before they return, not attending school if their school has in person learning, and not attending training for 2 weeks.  As for the tournament as a whole,  sure they will still have some teams that can travel without going against their local health department guidelines, and if they do then go ahead and have a smaller tournament.  Just don't be fooled into thinking they have anything other than their own financial interest in mind.


----------



## oh canada

Sound familiar?









						YOUTH SOCCER'S FAMED SURF CUP IS ON FOR SUMMER 2020 • SoccerToday
					

SoccerToday - Voice of American Soccer




					www.soccertoday.com


----------



## Spfister

GT45 said:


> Nah that is not true. They only posted it on credit cards the past few weeks as they accepted teams to the January event. They never charged for the earlier event. If you were not accepted you never were charged. Let's not post untruths.


Umm. I’m the manager of my team and I can assure you they charged our team when we were accepted to the original tournament That was supposed to be held in July. Our credit card was charged in June.  They kept rolling over our acceptance and then for this new tournament they just gave us a coupon code that we used when we registered and they transfer the money over. I know what I’m talking about But Obviously you don’t.


----------



## Lavey29

oh canada said:


> Sound familiar?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOUTH SOCCER'S FAMED SURF CUP IS ON FOR SUMMER 2020 • SoccerToday
> 
> 
> SoccerToday - Voice of American Soccer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soccertoday.com



Oh boy, I know this announcement is really hard for you to accept because you put so much time and effort into explaining why Surf cup was canceled this year but look at the bright side ok?  You are safe and sound inside your isolation bubble and you can still see a lot of the great matches with the top teams via video. They may even have live stream going. If you close your eyes and listen to the sounds of kids enjoying playing the sport they love all the hurt feelings you are experiencing now will go away.


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> Yea, not happening.  RSL - AZ may be interested but many  clubs will likely not lift a finger to help administrate this thing.  This is a nice to have, not a must have.  The  collateral damage of having Surf could jeopardize AZ run tournaments in FEB.  I would wager that many AZ clubs wouldn't have their feelings hurt if Surf just went away.
> Every public health official in AZ is saying this is a bad idea. ICU beds today are at 92%.  Cannon fodder for our media.  Hospitals don't make as much money when their ICU beds are full of CV19 patients.  They are screaming about this as well, but don't be mistaken, they are screaming because they don't want to draw down on elective surgeries and have to expand bed capacity.  Spend money to not make money is not their thing.
> 
> The more I think about it, the more I realize that Surf is just being an a$$hole and a bully. And it goes without saying that I am a fan of playing.


Boy are you misinformed.  Hospitals make way more money with covid patients with federal reimbursement.  That's why everyone tests positive and dies from covid even if you get shot in a robbery. Have plenty of family in medical and they all said the China virus box gets checked yes for everyone no matter what. China virus very profitable for hospitals.  I disagree with your club opinion also. My experience tells me that  when it comes to clubs helping each other such as participating in each others yearly tournaments or making some venues available for a weekend,  etc... soccer becomes a tight knit group and collaboration makes for great youth soccer experiences.


----------



## Lavey29

notintheface said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> You are out of your fucking mind.





> Lavey29 said:
> That's one thing cool about soccer is that different clubs in different regions and even different states typically dont hesitate to help another club if the situation calls for it.


They are working with RSL-AZ afaik, and in return RSL-AZ expects acceptance of their teams (now and in the future I'd expect).

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid.


----------



## Lavey29

soccer4us said:


> And for more fun.....
> 
> 
> 
> As promised, the update......
> 
> Despite the City Council vote to close the REACH 11 Complex, we believe we have a solution and therefore *Surf Cup AZ (youngers and olders) is ON!* We still have the Scottsdale Sports Complex for our event and there is no indication that the venue will close.
> 
> We have had overwhelming support from our friends in AZ in providing us options to hold the event in and around the Phoenix area (in areas NOT closed) and therefore, we are sending staff to Phoenix this weekend to check out our options so we can formulate our plan.
> 
> That plan will be communicated to all of you early next week. We have a lot to adjust in a very short amount of time but we want to do everything we can to make sure we can get your players back out on the fields playing the game they love.
> 
> We continue to be sensitive to what's going on in CA and part of the plan will be options for teams that feel it's in their best interest to not travel to AZ for the events so please wait until we communicate our plan, and your options, early next week before making a decision.
> 
> We will also work with each of the cities on their COVID protocols, which may be different by venue and, once confirmed by city/venue, that information will be communicated as well.
> 
> As the ECNL event is ongoing in SC right now and TX teams continue on with their league seasons (as do many other states) we want the same for the players coming to our events too so we are choosing to move forward and offer the events!
> 
> Look for a detailed communication early next week!
> 
> Thank you for your continued support!



Thank you for posting the current information


----------



## crush

watfly said:


> You have no clue about what I would do or not do.  My daughter was born premature and had to be resuscitated at birth from a botched amnio by the doctor in addition to cutting her head open in the crash C section ( a scar she still has but fortunately hidden along her hairline).  I could have easily walked away with $$$ but chose not to pursue the matter.


Wow, thanks for sharing.  That is one hell of a fighter!!!  My dd was all ready to go two days before her natural birth was supposed to happen. However, she kicked her legs off mommy's tummy and did a flip and we had a C section.  Holy cow, that was insane and I didn't faint.  All woman deserve our honor & respect.  Go girls!!!!


----------



## full90

Lavey29 said:


> Boy are you misinformed.  Hospitals make way more money with covid patients with federal reimbursement.  That's why everyone tests positive and dies from covid even if you get shot in a robbery. Have plenty of family in medical and they all said the China virus box gets checked yes for everyone no matter what. China virus very profitable for hospitals.  I disagree with your club opinion also. My experience tells me that  when it comes to clubs helping each other such as participating in each others yearly tournaments or making some venues available for a weekend,  etc... soccer becomes a tight knit group and collaboration makes for great youth soccer experiences.


Then they are either lying to you or complicit in fraud.

hospitals get federal funding for treating covid patients. That’s how hospitals get paid. If i have my knee repaired my insurance pays the hospital. If my dad does, Medicare pays the bill. That’s how hospitals work. Because treating covid patients means less elective surgeries and other issues that hospitals have to delay or reroute somewhere else, the CARes act is reimbursing for covid treatment.

If the “plenty” of family you have working in hospitals knows of hospitals erroneously checking the box for covid when it’s not true, that’s massive fraud and they should turn it in themselves because if they know and don’t do it, they are complicit.

hospitals are hemorrhaging money right now because of the loss of income on standard procedures. Getting reimbursed by the CARES act isn’t highly profitable. Your family is lying. And if they are checking boxes for covid when it isn’t true that’s Medicare fraud and it’s highly illegal. 

and there’s no reimbursement if someone dies from covid. Regurgitating trumps insane rally propaganda is so tired. Do better.


----------



## Lavey29

full90 said:


> Then they are either lying to you or complicit in fraud.
> 
> hospitals get federal funding for treating covid patients. That’s how hospitals get paid. If i have my knee repaired my insurance pays the hospital. If my dad does, Medicare pays the bill. That’s how hospitals work. Because treating covid patients means less elective surgeries and other issues that hospitals have to delay or reroute somewhere else, the CARes act is reimbursing for covid treatment.
> 
> If the “plenty” of family you have working in hospitals knows of hospitals erroneously checking the box for covid when it’s not true, that’s massive fraud and they should turn it in themselves because if they know and don’t do it, they are complicit.
> 
> hospitals are hemorrhaging money right now because of the loss of income on standard procedures. Getting reimbursed by the CARES act isn’t highly profitable. Your family is lying. And if they are checking boxes for covid when it isn’t true that’s Medicare fraud and it’s highly illegal.
> 
> and there’s no reimbursement if someone dies from covid. Regurgitating trumps insane rally propaganda is so tired. Do better.


I'm going in for hip replacement surgery this Tuesday.  Thought I would have difficulty getting in for elective surgery at the hospital but nope  schedule was wide open for me to choose and a private recovery room too. If I were you, do some research on hospital covid reimbursement and you will find some interesting statistics.  I would post links but they seem to not like non soccer related links here. You are just misinformed so try and do a little better yourself.


----------



## full90

No do post the links. Or message me the links.

And one person scheduling an elective surgery and having options is one example. You understand that doesn’t make it universally true right? You know what anecdotal means?

hospitals are losing Billions (with a B) due to covid. This is really well known stuff my guy.


----------



## Calisoccer11

watfly said:


> Not what I'm saying.  Clubs have a responsibility to obtain liability insurance for tournaments.  Parents need to take responsibility for their own choices and risks.  I know its part of the entitlement culture to play the victim and look for someone to blame (with deep pockets or insurance), but I wish it would stop.
> 
> You have no clue about what I would do or not do.  My daughter was born premature and had to be resuscitated at birth from a botched amnio by the doctor in addition to cutting her head open in the crash C section ( a scar she still has but fortunately hidden along her hairline).  I could have easily walked away with $$$ but chose not to pursue the matter.


Omg - I'm assuming that everything ended up okay--that sounds terrifying.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

I don’t understand this obsession with Surf Cup. What do ULittles gain from this tournament.   Also how many college scouts will be attending during the holiday season?  I understand that it’s viewed as a prestigious tournament but is it really?


----------



## futboldad1

Lavey29 said:


> Boy are you misinformed.  Hospitals make way more money with covid patients with federal reimbursement.  That's why everyone tests positive and dies from covid even if you get shot in a robbery. Have plenty of family in medical and they all said the China virus box gets checked yes for everyone no matter what. China virus very profitable for hospitals.  I disagree with your club opinion also. My experience tells me that  when it comes to clubs helping each other such as participating in each others yearly tournaments or making some venues available for a weekend,  etc... soccer becomes a tight knit group and collaboration makes for great youth soccer experiences.


My kid’s been training and playing and I’m all  
for having full outdoor sports and replacing  Newsom ....but you come across like an uneducated loony and a full on racist on the regular.... keyboards sure do make little men brave


----------



## Soccerfan2

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I don’t understand this obsession with Surf Cup. What do ULittles gain from this tournament.   Also how many college scouts will be attending during the holiday season?  I understand that it’s viewed as a prestigious tournament but is it really?


I agree with your sentiment. However, my girls just want to play, anywhere, anyhow. No prestige or college coaches required for enjoyment. Can’t play in California, so the appeal of surf cup this year for them is just hopefully some good, competitive games.


----------



## Lavey29

futboldad1 said:


> My kid’s been training and playing and I’m all
> for having full outdoor sports and replacing  Newsom ....but you come across like an uneducated loony and a full on racist on the regular.... keyboards sure do make little men brave


I apologize if you are butt hurt about something.  I know snowflakes are delicate. That's terrific your kid is training and playing. All kids in youth sports should be training and playing and also in school. Really no reason for them not to be although a lot of schools are in session around the country and as we all know youth sports are happening all around the country also with the exception of certain socialist controlled states. Kids need to be active and they need to be in school.


----------



## Jose has returned

ITFC Blues said:


> No, I just choose to teach my children that sometimes you have to make difficult decisions and not to let FOMO for them or their parents drive their decision.  Surf had an overwhelming number of applicants because every other tournament in California was cancelled.  Davis Legacy appears to have finally given up and decided all tournaments are cancelled until May 2021.  Again, if people choose to act in their self interest and travel to AZ without respecting tomorrow's lockdown for Southern California it's their decision to make.  All others ask is that they respect the guidelines and quarantine upon their return, including staying away from work, stocking up on food before they return, not attending school if their school has in person learning, and not attending training for 2 weeks.  As for the tournament as a whole,  sure they will still have some teams that can travel without going against their local health department guidelines, and if they do then go ahead and have a smaller tournament.  Just don't be fooled into thinking they have anything other than their own financial interest in mind.


nope.  do your due diligence and protect yourself don't worry about what other people do.  its their life at this point everyone knows the risks and can judge for themselves how much they want to risk


----------



## Lavey29

full90 said:


> No do post the links. Or message me the links.
> 
> And one person scheduling an elective surgery and having options is one example. You understand that doesn’t make it universally true right? You know what anecdotal means?
> 
> hospitals are losing Billions (with a B) due to covid. This is really well known stuff my guy.


I PM d you a link


----------



## GT45

Spfister said:


> Umm. I’m the manager of my team and I can assure you they charged our team when we were accepted to the original tournament That was supposed to be held in July. Our credit card was charged in June.  They kept rolling over our acceptance and then for this new tournament they just gave us a coupon code that we used when we registered and they transfer the money over. I know what I’m talking about But Obviously you don’t.


Umm, I am a team manager too. And, we were not charged until recently, and we knew we were in all along. I know what I am talking about since it was my credit card. So looks like you may have been in the minority who had money charged and held since most teams were not accepted until recently.


----------



## watfly

Calisoccer11 said:


> Omg - I'm assuming that everything ended up okay--that sounds terrifying.


Especially terrifying for my wife who they also Od'd on morphine and had to give narcan.  Yep shit show.  Fortunately no permanent physical damage to my daughter.  Awesome care in the NICU.  She is a perfectly normal, healthy and smart 17 year old.  Just had a rough start.


----------



## full90

Lavey29 said:


> I PM d you a link


Just in case anyone is following along, the link he sent actually said that hospitals are getting reimbursed for Covid patients via the CARES ACT. Which is common knowledge and no one is disputing.

what we ARE disputing is that hospitals are lying about covid cases in order to make money which the article he linked actually said isn’t true. Lol.

and then I linked a handful of articles with data showing how hospitals are losing money in huge amounts due to covid.

hospitals aren’t using covid to make money. This isn’t unclear.

from the article he sent me (disproving his own point


The figures cited by Jensen generally square with estimated Medicare payments for COVID-19 hospitalizations, based on average Medicare payments for patients with similar diagnoses."

Ask FactCheck reporter Angelo Fichera, who interviewed Jensen, noted, "Jensen said he did not think that hospitals were intentionally misclassifying cases for financial reasons.”


----------



## GT45

ITFC Blues said:


> No, I just choose to teach my children that sometimes you have to make difficult decisions and not to let FOMO for them or their parents drive their decision.  Surf had an overwhelming number of applicants because every other tournament in California was cancelled.  Davis Legacy appears to have finally given up and decided all tournaments are cancelled until May 2021.  Again, if people choose to act in their self interest and travel to AZ without respecting tomorrow's lockdown for Southern California it's their decision to make.  All others ask is that they respect the guidelines and quarantine upon their return, including staying away from work, stocking up on food before they return, not attending school if their school has in person learning, and not attending training for 2 weeks.  As for the tournament as a whole,  sure they will still have some teams that can travel without going against their local health department guidelines, and if they do then go ahead and have a smaller tournament.  Just don't be fooled into thinking they have anything other than their own financial interest in mind.


Of course it is a business for them. Why would anyone argue differently. They offer a service. We get to choose if we want to purchase it. If our kids mental health matters, and we feel soccer contributes to positive mental health, then we will make the decision best for our family. Soccer is being played all over the country with no Covid outbreaks. Entire falls seasons (both High School and Club) were played safely in other states.


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> Boy are you misinformed.  Hospitals make way more money with covid patients with federal reimbursement.  That's why everyone tests positive and dies from covid even if you get shot in a robbery. Have plenty of family in medical and they all said the China virus box gets checked yes for everyone no matter what. China virus very profitable for hospitals.  I disagree with your club opinion also. My experience tells me that  when it comes to clubs helping each other such as participating in each others yearly tournaments or making some venues available for a weekend,  etc... soccer becomes a tight knit group and collaboration makes for great youth soccer experiences.


Quit drinking the Faux News/OAN etc  Kool Aid.  If you think that a government fund is going to cover the cost of medical expenses you've had juan too many shots of tequila today.  Yes hospitals are getting $$$ to treat medicare  CV19 patients - very true.  Are they profiting  off of it - not even close.  There are hospital systems all over this country who are down billions of dollars since March due to caring for CV19 patients. .  It  costs more to care for those patients.  There is a cap on what the government provides.  Since when is government in the business of providing a service worth it's value.  

We can all claim to have that one person in the family who works in healthcare.  I spend plenty of time in the Healthcare Logistics world each week. Take a "I have a family member in health care " poll -  either all hell is breaking loose, beds are full, and there isn't a health care provider in sight OR birds are chirping and beds are empty because the virus is not real.  The truth is somewhere in the middle but you can certainly plant your flag firmly on one side, doesn't bother me.

And the part about clubs cuddling up to each other and banding together in time of need - now you sound like the other side of the aisle, unicorns, pixies, and fairy dust.  Clubs generally don't own fields in AZ - they belong to the city.  The Santos and Paloma complexes may be the exception in AZ.


----------



## Lavey29

full90 said:


> Just in case anyone is following along, the link he sent actually said that hospitals are getting reimbursed for Covid patients via the CARES ACT. Which is common knowledge and no one is disputing.
> 
> what we ARE disputing is that hospitals are lying about covid cases in order to make money which the article he linked actually said isn’t true. Lol.
> 
> and then I linked a handful of articles with data showing how hospitals are losing money in huge amounts due to covid.
> 
> hospitals aren’t using covid to make money. This isn’t unclear.
> 
> from the article he sent me (disproving his own point
> 
> 
> The figures cited by Jensen generally square with estimated Medicare payments for COVID-19 hospitalizations, based on average Medicare payments for patients with similar diagnoses."
> 
> Ask FactCheck reporter Angelo Fichera, who interviewed Jensen, noted, "Jensen said he did not think that hospitals were intentionally misclassifying cases for financial reasons.”


Perhaps you have difficulty reading and comprehending so I can help if needed.









						Hospital Payments and the COVID-19 Death Count - FactCheck.org
					

Q: Are hospitals inflating the number of COVID-19 cases and deaths so they can be paid more? A: Recent legislation pays hospitals higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting. FULL QUESTION Are hospitals getting 13,000 per patient if...




					www.factcheck.org


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> Quit drinking the Faux News/OAN etc  Kool Aid.  If you think that a government fund is going to cover the cost of medical expenses you've had juan too many shots of tequila today.  Yes hospitals are getting $$$ to treat medicare  CV19 patients - very true.  Are they profiting  off of it - not even close.  There are hospital systems all over this country who are down billions of dollars since March due to caring for CV19 patients. .  It  costs more to care for those patients.  There is a cap on what the government provides.  Since when is government in the business of providing a service worth it's value.
> 
> We can all claim to have that one person in the family who works in healthcare.  I spend plenty of time in the Healthcare Logistics world each week. Take a "I have a family member in health care " poll -  either all hell is breaking loose, beds are full, and there isn't a health care provider in sight OR birds are chirping and beds are empty because the virus is not real.  The truth is somewhere in the middle but you can certainly plant your flag firmly on one side, doesn't bother me.
> 
> And the part about clubs cuddling up to each other and banding together in time of need - now you sound like the other side of the aisle, unicorns, pixies, and fairy dust.  Clubs generally don't own fields in AZ - they belong to the city.  The Santos and Paloma complexes may be the exception in AZ.



How about those premiere league games today huh snowflake?  Some great champions league games also last week. Only little over 3 weeks till surf cup to...  cant wait....how about you? Excited for some great soccer play?


----------



## Spfister

GT45 said:


> Umm, I am a team manager too. And, we were not charged until recently, and we knew we were in all along. I know what I am talking about since it was my credit card. So looks like you may have been in the minority who had money charged and held since most teams were not accepted until recently.


Accepted to original Surf in May, paid in May, monies continuously rolled over to new scheduled date.


----------



## ITFC Blues

I don't think anyone knows for certain that soccer tournaments do or did not contribute to the spread of Covid 19.  I do know that Covid 19 spread and there were soccer tournaments therefore it is likely that some people at tournaments had Covid 19 at the tournaments or became infected at the tournaments.  Soccer players have tested positive so you can't say none of them got it when in a group of players or families at a tournament.   I would agree that it is so widespread that you cannot say that the tournaments caused it.  

CDPH does not necessarily say not to go to soccer tournaments.  CDPH says, don't travel out of your area as it contributes to the spread.  They also say that if you leave the state you should quarantine for 14 days upon your return.  I am not necessarily arguing against the tournaments as they are a local event that teams in Phoenix can choose to attend.  I am saying if you do decide to go then you should follow the rules and isolate as they say to do.  Go ahead and take your chances, just don't put the rest of us at risk because you just had to take your child to another state to go play a few soccer games.  I think that the residents of Arizona, more specifically Phoenix, would also appreciate it if people didn't travel to Phoenix without quarantining.  

I agree that the risk of catching covid as a player due to contact with an opponent is likely very low and wish CA would let teams play locally ( within their county) without any interaction between the parents.


----------



## Chalklines

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I don’t understand this obsession with Surf Cup. What do ULittles gain from this tournament.   Also how many college scouts will be attending during the holiday season?  I understand that it’s viewed as a prestigious tournament but is it really?


Anything u little should be cancled. Period


----------



## Frank

espola said:


> The medical insurance is almost useless as other posters have pointed out, but the liability insurance is priceless.  The Cal South tournament sanctioning process in which tournament organizers prove (or at least promise) to play by the rules Cal South sets up makes that insurance affordable to Cal South.  No rational insurer will get involved with an organization that can't follow its own rules or influence their affiliated organizations (clubs, teams, tournaments, etc) to do the smae.


This is the text of the email I received as to inquiring whether teams could attend the tourney. I think this is pretty clear.

"Teams are not covered by insurance and the activity is not sanctioned by Cal South so they are participating independently. Cal South will not discipline individuals and not cover any risk.

If anything happens it will fall on the coach and club independently."


----------



## oh canada

full90 said:


> Just in case anyone is following along, the link he sent actually said that hospitals are getting reimbursed for Covid patients via the CARES ACT. Which is common knowledge and no one is disputing.
> 
> what we ARE disputing is that hospitals are lying about covid cases in order to make money which the article he linked actually said isn’t true. Lol.
> 
> and then I linked a handful of articles with data showing how hospitals are losing money in huge amounts due to covid.
> 
> hospitals aren’t using covid to make money. This isn’t unclear.
> 
> from the article he sent me (disproving his own point
> 
> 
> The figures cited by Jensen generally square with estimated Medicare payments for COVID-19 hospitalizations, based on average Medicare payments for patients with similar diagnoses."
> 
> Ask FactCheck reporter Angelo Fichera, who interviewed Jensen, noted, "Jensen said he did not think that hospitals were intentionally misclassifying cases for financial reasons.”


No point in engaging bigots and morons, especially bigots who are morons.  Give you credit for trying but I prefer the ignore button


----------



## Eusebio

Let me preface this by saying, I support Local Play with no interaction between parents. A lot of studies (real studies, not just the 5th grade level Surf study) has shown outdoor sports and transmission on the field of play is very rare and low risk overall. Prior to November, the state should have allowed local teams within 50 miles of each other to play games as long as the parents could be completely separated. CA state government did absolutely nothing to ease the pressure valve among rabid SoCal soccer parents and coaches, which has contributed to the current situation. I'll also throw some blame at the Federal government with both Congress and the White House. If they actually came together and passed a Covid Relief/Stimulus bill in the early fall like Wall-Street had expected, you wouldn't have big soccer clubs with large overheads feeling desperate to hold tournaments out of state on New Years in the height of a pandemic. So there's certainly enough blame to go around.

That said, Surf is making a huge mistake by trying to push forward. As others have mentioned, Surf will be needed with their credibility in tack to help get Local Play going in the spring. I know inside the soccer bubble Surf looks like a freedom fighter or Luke Skywalker trying to take the Empire down. But to the majority of outside observers, Surf just looks reckless, desperate and disrespectful to local communities which are battling a very real health crisis on their hands. Using "it's about the children!!" as a shield when it's really about the bottom line. Let's be real here.

Again, I agree rates of transmission and spread on the field are very low. But if you have anywhere from 30,000 - 60,000 people traveling to a local area from out of state for a tournament, you have to worry about how those 30-60k will interact with the local community. Do you think all those people will just stay quietly in their hotel quarantined and not interact with anyone? Remember these are the same people who are there in the first place because they're defying their own states restrictions, justified or not. It's probably a safe bet a percentage of those people will see the local AZ restrictions as government overreach as well. And Surf claims no responsibility for what Little Billy's pop pop does after the game gallivanting around town. 

You can't conflate the proven safety of a soccer game with holding a multi-day large tournament event in height of the pandemic. The soccer is fine, it's the large event that's the problem. What's worse is that we're literally right around the corner from finally getting out of this mess with vaccines on the horizon Why risk the bad publicity and angering local AZ residents by forcing an unnecessary event? For the last several weeks covid has become the leading cause of death nationwide. And you better believe AZ politicians will use Surf as a scapegoat if cases continue to surge in January. I also wouldn't be surprised if a few local SoCal TV stations take note of thousands of CA residents going to a large out of state event in the midst of our most restrictive travel bans and issues of self-quarantining when they return come up. I think Surf needs to step outside the bubble and think this through a little more carefully. Focus on winning the war. The battle for Surf Cup 2020 is over. Stop beating a dead horse and give people their refund. We'll need Surf's credibility over the next 2-3 months. Surf Cup in the high desert always sounded absolutely ridiculous anyway. Take the "out" the AZ council gave you and move on.

As for the children, 2020 has been absolute nightmare for them. But if they've survived this long, they can go without a big soccer tournament for a couple more months. Also most clubs have been doing in-house scrimmages so there's ways to keep the kids active in the interim. When I was growing up, I usually only played 1-2 tournaments for the entire year and I didn't play in any tournaments under the age of 12, we did just fine. I think we tend to overstate the value of tournaments and turn our kids into snowflakes if they can't compete for meaningless medals in shortened poorly reffed games. Surf Cup is definitely one of the good tournaments, one of the best in normal circumstances. But these aren't normal circumstances so let's stop pretending they are.


----------



## crush

SoccerFan4Life said:


> *I don’t understand this obsession with Surf Cup*. What do ULittles gain from this tournament.   Also how many college scouts will be attending during the holiday season?  *I understand that it’s viewed as a prestigious tournament but is it really?*


It was the Grand Daddy of all the tournaments back before age change.  It just grew so big and so many teams were begging for entry.  Clubs would use this as a recruiting tool as well.  If a team was not accepted that year, then other Docs would look to poach and use the old, "Our teams get accepted to Surf and all the scouts say your goat must be at the Cup to be seen and you better join our club to be seen."  To my dd and me, this was the big one.  She has two champion surf cup medals, one runner up and two champion Thanksgiving Cup medals and one runner up.  Throw in the Man City Cup and she has two more gold medals.  No deal yet though so that has been tough.  Oh well, life goes on and we have more things to worry about now


----------



## Lavey29

oh canada said:


> No point in engaging bigots and morons, especially bigots who are morons.  Give you credit for trying but I prefer the ignore button



So like Take Off eeeehhhhh....lol...sorry no time to chat right now. Kid has full scrimmage today against a strong team.  Gonna be great to watch. Will send you some video later.  Have a nice day in the bubble.


----------



## jimlewis

Eusebio said:


> Let me preface this by saying, I support Local Play with no interaction between parents. A lot of studies (real studies, not just the 5th grade level Surf study) has shown outdoor sports and transmission on the field of play is very rare and low risk overall. Prior to November, the state should have allowed local teams within 50 miles of each other to play games as long as the parents could be completely separated. CA state government did absolutely nothing to ease the pressure valve among rabid SoCal soccer parents and coaches, which has contributed to the current situation. I'll also throw some blame at the Federal government with both Congress and the White House. If they actually came together and passed a Covid Relief/Stimulus bill in the early fall like Wall-Street had expected, you wouldn't have big soccer clubs with large overheads feeling desperate to hold tournaments out of state on New Years in the height of a pandemic. So there's certainly enough blame to go around.
> 
> That said, Surf is making a huge mistake by trying to push forward. As others have mentioned, Surf will be needed with their credibility in tack to help get Local Play going in the spring. I know inside the soccer bubble Surf looks like a freedom fighter or Luke Skywalker trying to take the Empire down. But to the majority of outside observers, Surf just looks reckless, desperate and disrespectful to local communities which are battling a very real health crisis on their hands. Using "it's about the children!!" as a shield when it's really about the bottom line. Let's be real here.
> 
> Again, I agree rates of transmission and spread on the field are very low. But if you have anywhere from 30,000 - 60,000 people traveling to a local area from out of state for a tournament, you have to worry about how those 30-60k will interact with the local community. Do you think all those people will just stay quietly in their hotel quarantined and not interact with anyone? Remember these are the same people who are there in the first place because they're defying their own states restrictions, justified or not. It's probably a safe bet a percentage of those people will see the local AZ restrictions as government overreach as well. And Surf claims no responsibility for what Little Billy's pop pop does after the game gallivanting around town.
> 
> You can't conflate the proven safety of a soccer game with holding a multi-day large tournament event in height of the pandemic. The soccer is fine, it's the large event that's the problem. What's worse is that we're literally right around the corner from finally getting out of this mess with vaccines on the horizon Why risk the bad publicity and angering local AZ residents by forcing an unnecessary event? For the last several weeks covid has become the leading cause of death nationwide. And you better believe AZ politicians will use Surf as a scapegoat if cases continue to surge in January. I also wouldn't be surprised if a few local SoCal TV stations take note of thousands of CA residents going to a large out of state event in the midst of our most restrictive travel bans and issues of self-quarantining when they return come up. I think Surf needs to step outside the bubble and think this through a little more carefully. Focus on winning the war. The battle for Surf Cup 2020 is over. Stop beating a dead horse and give people their refund. We'll need Surf's credibility over the next 2-3 months. Surf Cup in the high desert always sounded absolutely ridiculous anyway. Take the "out" the AZ council gave you and move on.
> 
> As for the children, 2020 has been absolute nightmare for them. But if they've survived this long, they can go without a big soccer tournament for a couple more months. Also most clubs have been doing in-house scrimmages so there's ways to keep the kids active in the interim. When I was growing up, I usually only played 1-2 tournaments for the entire year and I didn't play in any tournaments under the age of 12, we did just fine. I think we tend to overstate the value of tournaments and turn our kids into snowflakes if they can't compete for meaningless medals in shortened poorly reffed games. Surf Cup is definitely one of the good tournaments, one of the best in normal circumstances. But these aren't normal circumstances so let's stop pretending they are.


Very well said.


----------



## chiefs

There’s is NO science showing soccer is a virus risk. NONE, ZILCH, NADA...Now suicides are running rampant everywhere, even a 6th grader on zoom in front of his Classmates blew his brains out..Congrats to the basement dwellers for understanding mental health issues and the impact.


----------



## crush

chiefs said:


> There’s is NO science showing soccer is a virus risk. NONE, ZILCH, NADA...Now suicides are running rampant everywhere, even a 6th grader on zoom in front of his Classmates blew his brains out..Congrats to the basement dwellers for understanding mental health issues and the impact.


And this dad lost it yesterday in Socal.......









						Father Arrested After Allegedly Decapitating Daughter and Son Over COVID-19 Stress
					

A personal trainer in Southern California was arrested after his children were found decapitated in their home on Friday.




					lawandcrime.com
				




*Father Arrested After Allegedly Decapitating Daughter and Son Over COVID-19 Stress*


----------



## galaxydad

jimlewis said:


> Very well said.


the issue with surf cup is the stay to play requirement- hotels are in the top 5 places COVID is spread and those account for 90 percent of non family transmission


----------



## Lavey29

galaxydad said:


> the issue with surf cup is the stay to play requirement- hotels are in the top 5 places COVID is spread and those account for 90 percent of non family transmission


While I'm not a fan of stay and play requirements where do you find scientific proven data that states hotels are in the top 5 and account for 90 percent transmission? Please provide CDC website link showing this info...thanks....


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Eusebio said:


> Let me preface this by saying, I support Local Play with no interaction between parents. A lot of studies (real studies, not just the 5th grade level Surf study) has shown outdoor sports and transmission on the field of play is very rare and low risk overall. Prior to November, the state should have allowed local teams within 50 miles of each other to play games as long as the parents could be completely separated. CA state government did absolutely nothing to ease the pressure valve among rabid SoCal soccer parents and coaches, which has contributed to the current situation. I'll also throw some blame at the Federal government with both Congress and the White House. If they actually came together and passed a Covid Relief/Stimulus bill in the early fall like Wall-Street had expected, you wouldn't have big soccer clubs with large overheads feeling desperate to hold tournaments out of state on New Years in the height of a pandemic. So there's certainly enough blame to go around.
> 
> That said, Surf is making a huge mistake by trying to push forward. As others have mentioned, Surf will be needed with their credibility in tack to help get Local Play going in the spring. I know inside the soccer bubble Surf looks like a freedom fighter or Luke Skywalker trying to take the Empire down. But to the majority of outside observers, Surf just looks reckless, desperate and disrespectful to local communities which are battling a very real health crisis on their hands. Using "it's about the children!!" as a shield when it's really about the bottom line. Let's be real here.
> 
> Again, I agree rates of transmission and spread on the field are very low. But if you have anywhere from 30,000 - 60,000 people traveling to a local area from out of state for a tournament, you have to worry about how those 30-60k will interact with the local community. Do you think all those people will just stay quietly in their hotel quarantined and not interact with anyone? Remember these are the same people who are there in the first place because they're defying their own states restrictions, justified or not. It's probably a safe bet a percentage of those people will see the local AZ restrictions as government overreach as well. And Surf claims no responsibility for what Little Billy's pop pop does after the game gallivanting around town.
> 
> You can't conflate the proven safety of a soccer game with holding a multi-day large tournament event in height of the pandemic. The soccer is fine, it's the large event that's the problem. What's worse is that we're literally right around the corner from finally getting out of this mess with vaccines on the horizon Why risk the bad publicity and angering local AZ residents by forcing an unnecessary event? For the last several weeks covid has become the leading cause of death nationwide. And you better believe AZ politicians will use Surf as a scapegoat if cases continue to surge in January. I also wouldn't be surprised if a few local SoCal TV stations take note of thousands of CA residents going to a large out of state event in the midst of our most restrictive travel bans and issues of self-quarantining when they return come up. I think Surf needs to step outside the bubble and think this through a little more carefully. Focus on winning the war. The battle for Surf Cup 2020 is over. Stop beating a dead horse and give people their refund. We'll need Surf's credibility over the next 2-3 months. Surf Cup in the high desert always sounded absolutely ridiculous anyway. Take the "out" the AZ council gave you and move on.
> 
> As for the children, 2020 has been absolute nightmare for them. But if they've survived this long, they can go without a big soccer tournament for a couple more months. Also most clubs have been doing in-house scrimmages so there's ways to keep the kids active in the interim. When I was growing up, I usually only played 1-2 tournaments for the entire year and I didn't play in any tournaments under the age of 12, we did just fine. I think we tend to overstate the value of tournaments and turn our kids into snowflakes if they can't compete for meaningless medals in shortened poorly reffed games. Surf Cup is definitely one of the good tournaments, one of the best in normal circumstances. But these aren't normal circumstances so let's stop pretending they are.


Thanks for posting. I agree with your idea about local play. Texas did this in the summer and even had full tournaments in August limiting it to one parent with mask and distancing. They have been playing through the fall. It's pretty much the same with Arizona and Colorado. Cases continued to drop until October/November. The lack of soccer in CA shouldn't surprise anyone. These actions are consistent with the ideology of those we elected. Our ECNL teams haven't played an ECNL game in CA in over a year and haven't been allowed to scrimmage or have contact in training for over 8 months. The very real problem policy makers are facing now is that many in youth sports in CA see no end in sight for the restrictions. Teams and families will continue to do whatever they can to have some sort of "normalcy" and they'll treat policies they see as misguided or unfair accordingly. I can't imagine there would be a huge appetite for Surf Cup in AZ over New Year's if CA teams had been playing locally through the fall.


----------



## oh canada

Eusebio said:


> Let me preface this by saying, I support Local Play with no interaction between parents. A lot of studies (real studies, not just the 5th grade level Surf study) has shown outdoor sports and transmission on the field of play is very rare and low risk overall. Prior to November, the state should have allowed local teams within 50 miles of each other to play games as long as the parents could be completely separated. CA state government did absolutely nothing to ease the pressure valve among rabid SoCal soccer parents and coaches, which has contributed to the current situation. I'll also throw some blame at the Federal government with both Congress and the White House. If they actually came together and passed a Covid Relief/Stimulus bill in the early fall like Wall-Street had expected, you wouldn't have big soccer clubs with large overheads feeling desperate to hold tournaments out of state on New Years in the height of a pandemic. So there's certainly enough blame to go around.
> 
> That said, Surf is making a huge mistake by trying to push forward. As others have mentioned, Surf will be needed with their credibility in tack to help get Local Play going in the spring. I know inside the soccer bubble Surf looks like a freedom fighter or Luke Skywalker trying to take the Empire down. But to the majority of outside observers, Surf just looks reckless, desperate and disrespectful to local communities which are battling a very real health crisis on their hands. Using "it's about the children!!" as a shield when it's really about the bottom line. Let's be real here.
> 
> Again, I agree rates of transmission and spread on the field are very low. But if you have anywhere from 30,000 - 60,000 people traveling to a local area from out of state for a tournament, you have to worry about how those 30-60k will interact with the local community. Do you think all those people will just stay quietly in their hotel quarantined and not interact with anyone? Remember these are the same people who are there in the first place because they're defying their own states restrictions, justified or not. It's probably a safe bet a percentage of those people will see the local AZ restrictions as government overreach as well. And Surf claims no responsibility for what Little Billy's pop pop does after the game gallivanting around town.
> 
> You can't conflate the proven safety of a soccer game with holding a multi-day large tournament event in height of the pandemic. The soccer is fine, it's the large event that's the problem. What's worse is that we're literally right around the corner from finally getting out of this mess with vaccines on the horizon Why risk the bad publicity and angering local AZ residents by forcing an unnecessary event? For the last several weeks covid has become the leading cause of death nationwide. And you better believe AZ politicians will use Surf as a scapegoat if cases continue to surge in January. I also wouldn't be surprised if a few local SoCal TV stations take note of thousands of CA residents going to a large out of state event in the midst of our most restrictive travel bans and issues of self-quarantining when they return come up. I think Surf needs to step outside the bubble and think this through a little more carefully. Focus on winning the war. The battle for Surf Cup 2020 is over. Stop beating a dead horse and give people their refund. We'll need Surf's credibility over the next 2-3 months. Surf Cup in the high desert always sounded absolutely ridiculous anyway. Take the "out" the AZ council gave you and move on.
> 
> As for the children, 2020 has been absolute nightmare for them. But if they've survived this long, they can go without a big soccer tournament for a couple more months. Also most clubs have been doing in-house scrimmages so there's ways to keep the kids active in the interim. When I was growing up, I usually only played 1-2 tournaments for the entire year and I didn't play in any tournaments under the age of 12, we did just fine. I think we tend to overstate the value of tournaments and turn our kids into snowflakes if they can't compete for meaningless medals in shortened poorly reffed games. Surf Cup is definitely one of the good tournaments, one of the best in normal circumstances. But these aren't normal circumstances so let's stop pretending they are.


Fantastically organized and written post.  A+.


----------



## oh canada

Lavey29 said:


> So like Take Off eeeehhhhh....lol...sorry no time to chat right now. Kid has full scrimmage today against a strong team.  Gonna be great to watch. Will send you some video later.  Have a nice day in the bubble.


Isn't it interesting how you assume a "bigots and morons" post refers to you without being mentioned specifically?


----------



## Lavey29

oh canada said:


> Isn't it interesting how you assume a "bigots and morons" post refers to you without being mentioned specifically?



Wow, there you go demonstrating your wonderful intelligence level again you sly little sheep you. Terrific day down by the beach for a great scrimmage match. Kid still not in good 90 minute game condition though. Got little winded in the second half. It was perfect shorts and flip flop weather though for December in California.  How is the temp inside your bubble?


----------



## ajaxahi

Finally, some sanity on this board! Thank you Eusebio for thoughtfully articulating what many of us are thinking!



Eusebio said:


> Let me preface this by saying, I support Local Play with no interaction between parents. A lot of studies (real studies, not just the 5th grade level Surf study) has shown outdoor sports and transmission on the field of play is very rare and low risk overall. Prior to November, the state should have allowed local teams within 50 miles of each other to play games as long as the parents could be completely separated. CA state government did absolutely nothing to ease the pressure valve among rabid SoCal soccer parents and coaches, which has contributed to the current situation. I'll also throw some blame at the Federal government with both Congress and the White House. If they actually came together and passed a Covid Relief/Stimulus bill in the early fall like Wall-Street had expected, you wouldn't have big soccer clubs with large overheads feeling desperate to hold tournaments out of state on New Years in the height of a pandemic. So there's certainly enough blame to go around.
> 
> That said, Surf is making a huge mistake by trying to push forward. As others have mentioned, Surf will be needed with their credibility in tack to help get Local Play going in the spring. I know inside the soccer bubble Surf looks like a freedom fighter or Luke Skywalker trying to take the Empire down. But to the majority of outside observers, Surf just looks reckless, desperate and disrespectful to local communities which are battling a very real health crisis on their hands. Using "it's about the children!!" as a shield when it's really about the bottom line. Let's be real here.
> 
> Again, I agree rates of transmission and spread on the field are very low. But if you have anywhere from 30,000 - 60,000 people traveling to a local area from out of state for a tournament, you have to worry about how those 30-60k will interact with the local community. Do you think all those people will just stay quietly in their hotel quarantined and not interact with anyone? Remember these are the same people who are there in the first place because they're defying their own states restrictions, justified or not. It's probably a safe bet a percentage of those people will see the local AZ restrictions as government overreach as well. And Surf claims no responsibility for what Little Billy's pop pop does after the game gallivanting around town.
> 
> You can't conflate the proven safety of a soccer game with holding a multi-day large tournament event in height of the pandemic. The soccer is fine, it's the large event that's the problem. What's worse is that we're literally right around the corner from finally getting out of this mess with vaccines on the horizon Why risk the bad publicity and angering local AZ residents by forcing an unnecessary event? For the last several weeks covid has become the leading cause of death nationwide. And you better believe AZ politicians will use Surf as a scapegoat if cases continue to surge in January. I also wouldn't be surprised if a few local SoCal TV stations take note of thousands of CA residents going to a large out of state event in the midst of our most restrictive travel bans and issues of self-quarantining when they return come up. I think Surf needs to step outside the bubble and think this through a little more carefully. Focus on winning the war. The battle for Surf Cup 2020 is over. Stop beating a dead horse and give people their refund. We'll need Surf's credibility over the next 2-3 months. Surf Cup in the high desert always sounded absolutely ridiculous anyway. Take the "out" the AZ council gave you and move on.
> 
> As for the children, 2020 has been absolute nightmare for them. But if they've survived this long, they can go without a big soccer tournament for a couple more months. Also most clubs have been doing in-house scrimmages so there's ways to keep the kids active in the interim. When I was growing up, I usually only played 1-2 tournaments for the entire year and I didn't play in any tournaments under the age of 12, we did just fine. I think we tend to overstate the value of tournaments and turn our kids into snowflakes if they can't compete for meaningless medals in shortened poorly reffed games. Surf Cup is definitely one of the good tournaments, one of the best in normal circumstances. But these aren't normal circumstances so let's stop pretending they are.


----------



## nextgenathletics

oh canada said:


> No point in engaging bigots and morons, especially bigots who are morons.  Give you credit for trying but I prefer the ignore button


No point engaging with ad-hominem neither. Be civil even if you disagree?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

chiefs said:


> There’s is NO science showing soccer is a virus risk. NONE, ZILCH, NADA...Now suicides are running rampant everywhere, even a 6th grader on zoom in front of his Classmates blew his brains out..Congrats to the basement dwellers for understanding mental health issues and the impact.


Who is the idiot that leaves a gun available for a 6th grader to blow their brains off.   Mental health is definitely taking a toll on people. Drugs and alcohol as well.  
Here’s the problem, doctors and nurses are now realizing that they cannot handle the amount of patients coming in.   They are asking for people to quarantine.   It took me 3 hours to get a covid test last week. This is all getting out of control.


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> How about those premiere league games today huh snowflake?  Some great champions league games also last week. Only little over 3 weeks till surf cup to...  cant wait....how about you? Excited for some great soccer play?


You are a crack up.  Creative use of the most overused word in 2020.  Anecdotal evidence show that using the term snowflake correlates to being a snowflake.  Look up the meaning of the word and tell me if you are a Missouri 1860s Snowflake or a contemporary Snowflake.

We played soccer today and yesterday.  And  yes, EPL and CL games are pretty cool to watch.  How that connects to Surf?  Only you know.  

Whether you like it or not, Surf has significant hurdles ahead of it.  If they pull it off then so be it.  I have a player that will play.  Hopefully there are some cross league games between ECNL and GA.


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> You are a crack up.  Creative use of the most overused word in 2020.  Anecdotal evidence show that using the term snowflake correlates to being a snowflake.  Look up the meaning of the word and tell me if you are a Missouri 1860s Snowflake or a contemporary Snowflake.
> 
> We played soccer today and yesterday.  And  yes, EPL and CL games are pretty cool to watch.  How that connects to Surf?  Only you know.
> 
> Whether you like it or not, Surf has significant hurdles ahead of it.  If they pull it off then so be it.  I have a player that will play.  Hopefully there are some cross league games between ECNL and GA.


Cross league games would be great. I'd like kids team to compete against the best teams out there so you really challenge yourself to step up and play quality soccer collectively as a team. Total possession play with timely aggressive counter attacks with the long ball when the moment calls for it.


----------



## chiefs

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Who is the idiot that leaves a gun available for a 6th grader to blow their brains off.   Mental health is definitely taking a toll on people. Drugs and alcohol as well.
> Here’s the problem, doctors and nurses are now realizing that they cannot handle the amount of patients coming in.   They are asking for people to quarantine.   It took me 3 hours to get a covid test last week. This is all getting out of control.


Why not have your governor bring in the hospital ship like spring time? Then there is no capacity issues.


----------



## EOTL

happy9 said:


> Yep, just the city of phoenix.  The complete lack of understanding in regards to problem solving and administrating is woefully embarrassing.  Somehow, canceling a soccer tournament is going to stop people from coming to the state.  This is low hanging fruit for a group people who are incredibly under qualified to handle the crisis at hand.
> 
> We will see how the other cities react.  Plenty of events upcoming in the City of Scottsdale that drive revenue.


A city council preventing people from getting other people killed in their city shows some pretty solid understanding and problem solving.


----------



## Jose has returned

If you are scared then wear 2 masks.  still scared then wear 3.  put on a face shield or wear a haz mat suit.


----------



## EOTL

crush said:


> And this dad lost it yesterday in Socal.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Father Arrested After Allegedly Decapitating Daughter and Son Over COVID-19 Stress
> 
> 
> A personal trainer in Southern California was arrested after his children were found decapitated in their home on Friday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lawandcrime.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Father Arrested After Allegedly Decapitating Daughter and Son Over COVID-19 Stress*


Mental illness caused this, not Covid-19. Regardless, get back to me when we’ve got 300,000 decaps.


----------



## tjinaz

A bit dated but still funny...


----------



## happy9

EOTL said:


> A city council preventing people from getting other people killed in their city shows some pretty solid understanding and problem solving.


On the face of your playbook answer I would agree.  Except you likely didn't see the meeting. You are smart enough to realize that If you change  the coolant in your car, it wouldn't fix your flat tire.


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> Cross league games would be great. I'd like kids team to compete against the best teams out there so you really challenge yourself to step up and play quality soccer collectively as a team. Total possession play with timely aggressive counter attacks with the long ball when the moment calls for it.


You are a futbol savant.


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> You are a futbol savant.


Nah, just a dad that enjoys watching his daughter play before she grows up and creates her own chapters in life.


----------



## happy9

chiefs said:


> Why not have your governor bring in the hospital ship like spring time? Then there is no capacity issues.


That's just so hard to do - Call federal government, federal government call Navy, Navy calls ship, ship sails and docks/anchors.  Ship open for business.

Too much planning


----------



## EOTL

happy9 said:


> On the face of your playbook answer I would agree.  Except you likely didn't see the meeting. You are smart enough to realize that If you change  the coolant in your car, it wouldn't fix your flat tire.


The city council wasn’t voting on coolant. And a flat tire hasn’t killed 300,000 people. 

Enjoy Indian land. Or Syria. Or wherever that doesn’t care about human life and is willing to host a super spreader event. Gosh, things must be really bad if even Phoenix isn’t willing to do it.


----------



## MSK357

EOTL said:


> The city council wasn’t voting on coolant. And a flat tire hasn’t killed 300,000 people.
> 
> Enjoy Indian land. Or Syria. Or wherever that doesn’t care about human life and is willing to host a super spreader event. Gosh, things must be really bad if even Phoenix isn’t willing to do it.


We will enjoy it. Since I would bet 90% of the people on this forum have kids playing soccer in some form. You should start your own forum that is against soccer being played right now. But then you'd get bored and come back to cause drama like the troll you are. Once again, nobody here cares what you think. You've been saying the same crap yet more and more people are playing soccer. You must hate your life. Lol. Come back when your prediction of millions of Americans dying becomes a reality. Troll.


----------



## Jose has returned

Lavey29 said:


> Nah, just a dad that enjoys watching his daughter play before she grows up and creates her own chapters in life.


makes you a great dad by default


----------



## Jose has returned

MSK357 said:


> We will enjoy it. Since I would bet 90% of the people on this forum have kids playing soccer in some form. You should start your own forum that is against soccer being played right now. But then you'd get bored and come back to cause drama like the troll you are. Once again, nobody here cares what you think. You've been saying the same crap yet more and more people are playing soccer. You must hate your life. Lol. Come back when your prediction of millions of Americans dying becomes a reality. Troll.


That was savage!


----------



## Lavey29

Jose has returned said:


> makes you a great dad by default


Thank you Sir. Irregardless of the forum squabbles I'm sure the vast majority of us on here are great parents by default.  We enjoy watching our kids play a beautiful sport and seeing them develop each year. We give up our weekends for them but it's also for us because of the happiness we get out of seeing them play. Hopefully normalcy will return in the near future for everyone.


----------



## dad4

chiefs said:


> Why not have your governor bring in the hospital ship like spring time? Then there is no capacity issues.


How large is your hospital ship?  

I think you have a problem of scale.  Besides, the critical resource seems to be staff, not mattresses.


----------



## tjinaz

dad4 said:


> How large is your hospital ship?
> 
> I think you have a problem of scale.  Besides, the critical resource seems to be staff, not mattresses.


Well the one that went to NYC and treated a whopping 200 cases includes a 1000 bed hospital. Think that would alleviate some of the strain. Cuomo had killed off most of the most vulnerable by forcing them into Nursing homes.

Hospital Ship Comfort


----------



## chiefs

dad4 said:


> How large is your hospital ship?
> 
> I think you have a problem of scale.  Besides, the critical resource seems to be staff, not mattresses.


Stop making excuses for an inept governor. Call the effing ship in...stop changing the goal post and maybe someone will listen.


----------



## EOTL

MSK357 said:


> We will enjoy it. Since I would bet 90% of the people on this forum have kids playing soccer in some form. You should start your own forum that is against soccer being played right now. But then you'd get bored and come back to cause drama like the troll you are. Once again, nobody here cares what you think. You've been saying the same crap yet more and more people are playing soccer. You must hate your life. Lol. Come back when your prediction of millions of Americans dying becomes a reality. Troll.


So fun watching the youth soccer nuts wallow in self-pity. The greatest generation saves the world, and y’all get whiny that Sally can’t play Surf Cup. It’s been a real tough month for people with heartburn, eh?


----------



## dad4

chiefs said:


> Stop making excuses for an inept governor. Call the effing ship in...stop changing the goal post and maybe someone will listen.


All I did was point out that a 1000 bed ship is not big enough to eliminate the fact that we are close to filling all of our staffed ICU beds.  And we aren't the only state with a problem right now.

Download a new game.  Watch a movie.  Go for a hike somewhere beautiful.  Surf.  Call up friends and play online bridge.  Read a book.

In other words, deal with it.  It will be better in April.  Sooner, if fewer of us are out there making it worse.


----------



## EOTL

Lavey29 said:


> Thank you Sir. Irregardless of the forum squabbles I'm sure the vast majority of us on here are great parents by default.  We enjoy watching our kids play a beautiful sport and seeing them develop each year. We give up our weekends for them but it's also for us because of the happiness we get out of seeing them play. Hopefully normalcy will return in the near future for everyone.


If you want normalcy to return in the near future, it requires that you and your friends actually do something instead of whining about how saving lives is getting in the way of “the happiness we get out of seeing them play” kiddie soccer for a few months. Or a year plus since y’all refuse to get your act together. 

If you’d known this would go on a year behaving stupidly like y’all did, would you have supported wearing masks and staying home from the start and encouraged others to do so also? Month 3 maybe? 6? 9?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

It’s hilarious to see that grown men are so frustrated that a soccer tournament could be cancelled. Get a life and enjoy your family during the holidays.   Arena soccer in Orange is open for rentals.  It’s a lot of fun to get your kids play 5 v 5 and you don’t need to drive 6 hours.    The rentals are just $50 an hour.


----------



## EOTL

dad4 said:


> All I did was point out that a 1000 bed ship is not big enough to eliminate the fact that we are close to filling all of our staffed ICU beds.  And we aren't the only state with a problem right now.
> 
> Download a new game.  Watch a movie.  Go for a hike somewhere beautiful.  Surf.  Call up friends and play online bridge.  Read a book.
> 
> In other words, deal with it.  It will be better in April.  Sooner, if fewer of us are out there making it worse.


Iowa, Kansas and the Dakotas could really use one of those ships right now. Maybe San Diego can sail theirs down the I-5 to Phoenix for Surf Cup and then up the CO river after they’re finished with it.


----------



## notintheface

Frank said:


> This is the text of the email I received as to inquiring whether teams could attend the tourney. I think this is pretty clear.
> 
> "Teams are not covered by insurance and the activity is not sanctioned by Cal South so they are participating independently. Cal South will not discipline individuals and not cover any risk.
> 
> If anything happens it will fall on the coach and club independently."


Run, do not walk, away from that tournament.


----------



## Lavey29

EOTL said:


> If you want normalcy to return in the near future, it requires that you and your friends actually do something instead of whining about how saving lives is getting in the way of “the happiness we get out of seeing them play” kiddie soccer for a few months. Or a year plus since y’all refuse to get your act together.
> 
> If you’d known this would go on a year behaving stupidly like y’all did, would you have supported wearing masks and staying home from the start and encouraged others to do so also? Month 3 maybe? 6? 9?



I think your self imposed isolation bubble has clouded your ability to consciously reason in your thought process. I live in California and my family like the vast majority of other families adhere to basic China virus safety guidelines.  We wear our masks, avoid large crowds, dont dine inside,  grocery shop during off hours, maintain social distance etc...but there comes a point where government over reach extends to much and violates our constitutional rights and infringes on our freedom. One size does not fit all. 10 million people crammed into a socialist utopia city shoulder to shoulder walking around and living 12 deep in a 2 bedroom apartment may have to lock down and isolate to lower the curve. Several dozen parents spread out on the sidelines with their masks on watching their kids play is not the reason for the China virus spike so imposing the same unconstitutional orders upon them limiting virtually everything makes no sense and doing it while you are dining with 12 people inside at the most expensive restaurant in the country is the height of socialist hypocrisy.


----------



## happy9

EOTL said:


> The city council wasn’t voting on coolant. And a flat tire hasn’t killed 300,000 people.
> 
> Enjoy Indian land. Or Syria. Or wherever that doesn’t care about human life and is willing to host a super spreader event. Gosh, things must be really bad if even Phoenix isn’t willing to do it.


Open play book, look at audible #3 - answer with ##### of people dead.  Area you anti Syrian or Indian?  Why the hate? 

Closing down fields to local clubs and the local population is plain dumb.  Nothing scientific about it and doesn't address anything.  Changing coolant to fix a a flat tire..  Denying field access to an out of state entity with the intent of bringing in thousands of people is at least a somewhat rational solution to cutting down people traffic. 

Not surprised at all that Phoenix chose to make a political statement rather than follow science - kinda like your boys Newsome and Garcetti.


----------



## chiefs

dad4 said:


> All I did was point out that a 1000 bed ship is not big enough to eliminate the fact that we are close to filling all of our staffed ICU beds.  And we aren't the only state with a problem right now.
> 
> Download a new game.  Watch a movie.  Go for a hike somewhere beautiful.  Surf.  Call up friends and play online bridge.  Read a book.
> 
> In other words, deal with it.  It will be better in April.  Sooner, if fewer of us are out there making it worse.


The 1000 beds and accompanied medical personnel would save lives and would help more than that over a 4 month period.  That’s a self defeatist attitude similar to our governor whose lack of leadership pukes out daily.


----------



## EOTL

happy9 said:


> Open play book, look at audible #3 - answer with ##### of people dead.  Area you anti Syrian or Indian?  Why the hate?
> 
> Closing down fields to local clubs and the local population is plain dumb.  Nothing scientific about it and doesn't address anything.  Changing coolant to fix a a flat tire..  Denying field access to an out of state entity with the intent of bringing in thousands of people is at least a somewhat rational solution to cutting down people traffic.
> 
> Not surprised at all that Phoenix chose to make a political statement rather than follow science - kinda like your boys Newsome and Garcetti.


Yes, science has proven that old people in their rest homes cause it to go from one geographical location to the next. It can’t possibly be spread by 60,000 people traveling to the same place for a kiddie soccer tournament and then back again. Of course, they’re really all just dying of heartburn anyway, or being decapitated by their parents if the heartburn doesn’t get ‘em, right @crush?


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> Open play book, look at audible #3 - answer with ##### of people dead.  Area you anti Syrian or Indian?  Why the hate?
> 
> Closing down fields to local clubs and the local population is plain dumb.  Nothing scientific about it and doesn't address anything.  Changing coolant to fix a a flat tire..  Denying field access to an out of state entity with the intent of bringing in thousands of people is at least a somewhat rational solution to cutting down people traffic.
> 
> Not surprised at all that Phoenix chose to make a political statement rather than follow science - kinda like your boys Newsome and Garcetti.



Happy you live in AZ? I was there in Scottsdale 2 months ago and the resteraunts were packed inside.  I wore my mask inside one to get my pizza to go and everyone looked at me like I had the plague. There really is no voluntary mask use at all that I saw around the Scottsdale area we were at. Restaurants and bars appeared to be business as usual. So if there is a rise in china virus cases it is most likely due to local residents and the chances of some parents sitting spread out on the sidelines with their masks on causing a big spike just ain't gonna happen I'm no scientist and everything put out from the scientific community does not indicate youth sports and the parents watching are one of the primary factors in rising China virus numbers.


----------



## EOTL

Lavey29 said:


> Happy you live in AZ? I was there in Scottsdale 2 months ago and the resteraunts were packed inside.  I wore my mask inside one to get my pizza to go and everyone looked at me like I had the plague. There really is no voluntary mask use at all that I saw around the Scottsdale area we were at. Restaurants and bars appeared to be business as usual. So if there is a rise in china virus cases it is most likely due to local residents and the chances of some parents sitting spread out on the sidelines with their masks on causing a big spike just ain't gonna happen I'm no scientist and everything put out from the scientific community does not indicate youth sports and the parents watching are one of the primary factors in rising China virus numbers.


Racist. Definitely Outlaw or one of his brother cousin uncles.


----------



## Lavey29

EOTL said:


> Yes, science has proven that old people in their rest homes cause it to go from one geographical location to the next. It can’t possibly be spread by 60,000 people traveling to the same place for a kiddie soccer tournament and then back again. Of course, they’re really all just dying of heartburn anyway, or being decapitated by their parents if the heartburn doesn’t get ‘em, right @crush?


60k?  No, no no you are thinking of a Trump rally. 1000 soccer teams even with 4 family members each is only 4k people. Maybe few hundred spread out around 10 fields at any given time too.


----------



## Lavey29

EOTL said:


> Racist. Definitely Outlaw or one of his brother cousin uncles.


Um, excuse my ignorance Mr. Ewok, but what exactly was racist there? Before you answer consider that I may be an African American or perhaps a simple humble honky.


----------



## futboldad1

Lavey29 said:


> 60k?  No, no no you are thinking of a Trump rally. 1000 soccer teams even with 4 family members each is only 4k people. Maybe few hundred spread out around 10 fields at any given time too.


Hahaha great math, is every kid on every team related? Brains I’ll call you. 

4K is about right for a Trump rally


----------



## 1dad2boys

Lavey29 said:


> 60k?  No, no no you are thinking of a Trump rally. 1000 soccer teams even with 4 family members each is only 4k people. Maybe few hundred spread out around 10 fields at any given time too.


I’m

Um, 1 player per team?  Try 12X your number.


----------



## Lavey29

1dad2boys said:


> I’m
> 
> Um, 1 player per team?  Try 12X your number.


Yes, my bad, you are correct.


----------



## dad4

happy9 said:


> Open play book, look at audible #3 - answer with ##### of people dead.  Area you anti Syrian or Indian?  Why the hate?
> 
> Closing down fields to local clubs and the local population is plain dumb.  Nothing scientific about it and doesn't address anything.  Changing coolant to fix a a flat tire..  Denying field access to an out of state entity with the intent of bringing in thousands of people is at least a somewhat rational solution to cutting down people traffic.
> 
> Not surprised at all that Phoenix chose to make a political statement rather than follow science - kinda like your boys Newsome and Garcetti.


Kind of weird that they want to shut down tournaments but keep hotels and restaurants open. 

Hotels and restaurants are the reason tournaments are high risk.  The soccer itself is low to medium risk.  They're keeping the high risk activity and closing the low risk one.

Hope they open it up for you guys soon.


----------



## socalkdg

dad4 said:


> All I did was point out that a 1000 bed ship is not big enough to eliminate the fact that we are close to filling all of our staffed ICU beds.  And we aren't the only state with a problem right now.
> 
> Download a new game.  Watch a movie.  Go for a hike somewhere beautiful.  Surf.  Call up friends and play online bridge.  Read a book.
> 
> In other words, deal with it.  It will be better in April.  Sooner, if fewer of us are out there making it worse.


Crazy but my daughter got an email from school to start track practice Tuesday.   100 and 200.    Not bad for a goalkeeper.


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> Yes, science has proven that old people in their rest homes cause it to go from one geographical location to the next. It can’t possibly be spread by 60,000 people traveling to the same place for a kiddie soccer tournament and then back again. Of course, they’re really all just dying of heartburn anyway, or being decapitated by their parents if the heartburn doesn’t get ‘em, right @crush?


Dad who killed his kids ((RIP little Angels)) was a personal trainer and felt helpless after this last shut down.  These shut downs do a number on you when you have no money or a job and kids need things, like food.  Mental illness is real EOTL, trust me.  He and so many others are SOL and it's now hitting all of us.  I said this before and I will say it again.  Everyone, including dad 4 the math teacher, EOTL, Espola and Long Game Man and even Outlaw, needs to lose everything and I mean everything.  Job, savings, retirement and everything else that comes with it.  That's the big lie EOTL, plus all the Hypocrites that say one thing and do another.  You know what I mean, right?









						Los Angeles bar owner rips Garcetti, Newsom over double standard on outdoor dining
					

A Los Angeles bar owner was fighting back tears Friday, claiming Mayor Eric Garcetti had shut down the outdoor patio at her business -- while letting a Hollywood movie crew set up an outdoor dining area just a short distance away.




					www.foxnews.com
				




This lady saved everything up to start a business, but dad 4 and his pals say she must be closed down, lose all her savings and all the time she put into building her business so you and him can feel safer.  We all know by now what this is really about.    

I was in Whittier with my Queen Bee on Saturday.  I took her on a "Memory Lane Date" to Central Park.  I was leading a small bible study group back in 1996 and she had just joined our church and wanted to grow more so she joined my singles group ((talk about being at the right place at the right time)).  It was love at first sight and we got married 18 months later and we are more madly and deeply in love today then ever, and I mean that.  We had the best __________________ ever and it's only getting better.  We eight at JCs.  Killer tacos bro btw.  He shut down and then opened up and then is now about to shut down again and is trying to hold on for dear life.  Community in old town is trying to help but it's looking bleak.


----------



## ToonArmy

So is Surf Cup on?


----------



## soccermom74

3leches said:


> RSL tournament cancelled;
> The City of Phoenix has made the decision to close all parks and cancel all events for the foreseeable future and I am sorry to inform you that we are no longer able to accept out-of-states teams. Surf Cup will be cancelled


RSL did not cancel their December tournament.  They closed it to out of state teams.  The tournament will still be happening this weekend with AZ only teams.


----------



## MSK357

EOTL said:


> So fun watching the youth soccer nuts wallow in self-pity. The greatest generation saves the world, and y’all get whiny that Sally can’t play Surf Cup. It’s been a real tough month for people with heartburn, eh?


Self pity? Must be talking about someone else. I'm happy with setting up free scrimmages locally. Plenty of quality teams in socal, no need to drive and pay for hotels. Plenty of secret locations where the authorities let us play. Just can't be a scared snowflake like you. Lol


----------



## whatithink

soccermom74 said:


> RSL did not cancel their December tournament.  They closed it to out of state teams.  The tournament will still be happening this weekend with AZ only teams.


Where do you get your information? They still have out of state teams listed.

Event Information (gotsport.com)


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> *Happy you live in AZ*? I was there in Scottsdale 2 months ago and the resteraunts were packed inside.  I wore my mask inside one to get my pizza to go and everyone looked at me like I had the plague. There really is no voluntary mask use at all that I saw around the Scottsdale area we were at. Restaurants and bars appeared to be business as usual. So if there is a rise in china virus cases it is most likely due to local residents and the chances of some parents sitting spread out on the sidelines with their masks on causing a big spike just ain't gonna happen I'm no scientist and everything put out from the scientific community does not indicate youth sports and the parents watching are one of the primary factors in rising China virus numbers.


Yep, in the north valley/scottsdale area.  Mask compliance is generally good.  Eating establishments are touch and go, depending on the neighborhood.  I get the sense if you eat more local, with less external traffic, masks aren't as diligently enforced.  People feel more comfortable sitting at a bar in north scottsdale, with less out of zip code traffic than lets say central scottsdale, which sees more traffic from neighboring zip codes.  

The virus is going to virus (may be the most overused statement of 2020).  

Many zip codes in the north valley have less cases - are less transient.  We also have a high snowbird population, they've been here since SEP.  Maybe just coincidence but their arrival was synched with our increase in case load.  Likely a seasonal thing but I'm no infectious disease expert.  Our hospital capacity this time of the year typically runs 90% or slightly higher due to snowbirds.

Club sports in full swing over the weekend.  I expect some sort of restrictions to be put in place in some cities but I doubt those will include any restrictions placed on sports played outside.  Except of course cities like phoenix and tempe.   

It will be interesting to see how Surf pivots and manages the CA restrictions.  Will CA clubs still come?  Does it make sense for a club to travel to AZ under the shadow of these restrictions?  Even more important (to me anyway, from an athletic perspective), does it make sense  players to travel to CA to play 3 games after not having practiced for 3 weeks.  If you are the parent of an older with college aspirations, does it make sense to risk injury.  CA clubs aren't exactly in top game shape to begin with.  Goes without saying, lack of game fitness can lead to injury.  

Remove the emotion of the politics of the virus and think about whether 3 forced games is worth an injury.  AZ clubs have been practicing and playing since late summer.  We didn't miss that many weeks of training and are now basically in game shape.  I haven't seen a legit team list, but how many non CA teams are registered for Surf?  Does this turn into a CO, TX, AZ surf?  And is the juice worth the squeeze for Surf.


----------



## happy9

whatithink said:


> Where do you get your information? They still have out of state teams listed.
> 
> Event Information (gotsport.com)


I didn't open every age group but the ones I did were blank.  No teams, no schedule.  Interesting.


----------



## Eagle33

happy9 said:


> Yep, in the north valley/scottsdale area.  Mask compliance is generally good.  Eating establishments are touch and go, depending on the neighborhood.  I get the sense if you eat more local, with less external traffic, masks aren't as diligently enforced.  People feel more comfortable sitting at a bar in north scottsdale, with less out of zip code traffic than lets say central scottsdale, which sees more traffic from neighboring zip codes.
> 
> The virus is going to virus (may be the most overused statement of 2020).
> 
> Many zip codes in the north valley have less cases - are less transient.  We also have a high snowbird population, they've been here since SEP.  Maybe just coincidence but their arrival was synched with our increase in case load.  Likely a seasonal thing but I'm no infectious disease expert.  Our hospital capacity this time of the year typically runs 90% or slightly higher due to snowbirds.
> 
> Club sports in full swing over the weekend.  I expect some sort of restrictions to be put in place in some cities but I doubt those will include any restrictions placed on sports played outside.  Except of course cities like phoenix and tempe.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how Surf pivots and manages the CA restrictions.  Will CA clubs still come?  Does it make sense for a club to travel to AZ under the shadow of these restrictions?  Even more important (to me anyway, from an athletic perspective), does it make sense  players to travel to CA to play 3 games after not having practiced for 3 weeks.  If you are the parent of an older with college aspirations, does it make sense to risk injury.  CA clubs aren't exactly in top game shape to begin with.  Goes without saying, lack of game fitness can lead to injury.
> 
> Remove the emotion of the politics of the virus and think about whether 3 forced games is worth an injury.  AZ clubs have been practicing and playing since late summer.  We didn't miss that many weeks of training and are now basically in game shape.  I haven't seen a legit team list, but how many non CA teams are registered for Surf?  Does this turn into a CO, TX, AZ surf?  And is the juice worth the squeeze for Surf.


What I have noticed is CA teams is not playing/training enough and AZ teams playing/training too much. In both cases risk of injury is very high.


----------



## LASTMAN14

ToonArmy said:


> So is Surf Cup on?
> [/QUOTE
> Per my info Surf Cup is still on. They plan to use fields not affected by the Phoenix City Council.


----------



## Jose has returned

Lavey29 said:


> Um, excuse my ignorance Mr. Ewok, but what exactly was racist there? Before you answer consider that I may be an African American or perhaps a simple humble honky.


there is nothing racist about the comment.  That is that fools go to on everyone. I wish the consequences were as severe for those throwing that around falsely as they are for the true racist that pop up around.


----------



## whatithink

happy9 said:


> I didn't open every age group but the ones I did were blank.  No teams, no schedule.  Interesting.


GotSoccer Rankings - Example below


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> Yep, in the north valley/scottsdale area.  Mask compliance is generally good.  Eating establishments are touch and go, depending on the neighborhood.  I get the sense if you eat more local, with less external traffic, masks aren't as diligently enforced.  People feel more comfortable sitting at a bar in north scottsdale, with less out of zip code traffic than lets say central scottsdale, which sees more traffic from neighboring zip codes.
> 
> The virus is going to virus (may be the most overused statement of 2020).
> 
> Many zip codes in the north valley have less cases - are less transient.  We also have a high snowbird population, they've been here since SEP.  Maybe just coincidence but their arrival was synched with our increase in case load.  Likely a seasonal thing but I'm no infectious disease expert.  Our hospital capacity this time of the year typically runs 90% or slightly higher due to snowbirds.
> 
> Club sports in full swing over the weekend.  I expect some sort of restrictions to be put in place in some cities but I doubt those will include any restrictions placed on sports played outside.  Except of course cities like phoenix and tempe.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how Surf pivots and manages the CA restrictions.  Will CA clubs still come?  Does it make sense for a club to travel to AZ under the shadow of these restrictions?  Even more important (to me anyway, from an athletic perspective), does it make sense  players to travel to CA to play 3 games after not having practiced for 3 weeks.  If you are the parent of an older with college aspirations, does it make sense to risk injury.  CA clubs aren't exactly in top game shape to begin with.  Goes without saying, lack of game fitness can lead to injury.
> 
> Remove the emotion of the politics of the virus and think about whether 3 forced games is worth an injury.  AZ clubs have been practicing and playing since late summer.  We didn't miss that many weeks of training and are now basically in game shape.  I haven't seen a legit team list, but how many non CA teams are registered for Surf?  Does this turn into a CO, TX, AZ surf?  And is the juice worth the squeeze for Surf.


I agree with the training part for sure. My kid is out if condition for this time of year. Only 4 scrimmage games and 4 tournament games all season.  2 injuries already. Hamstring and strained back.  Even the coach commented that the team was out of game condition compared to other teams from different states that have been practicing and playing regularly.


----------



## Speedy

Surf Cup AZ in on (for now)


----------



## htk

Just received this email:

We are excited to announce that Surf Cup 2020 - Arizona will go on as planned! All aspects of the event, including the filming and free access for college coaches of all recruiting age games, will continue and the dates and general location won't change.

Although we respect the current COVID situation in our country, we are confident in the safety of outdoor youth sports and our COVID protocols and processes. More importantly, our athletes, families and college coaches have reached out to us in droves imploring us to move forward with the event. The foundation of our rationale is rooted in three core ideas:

            • All qualitative and quantitative data support the idea that COVID is not being transmitted on the field of play during outdoor youth sports activities. We have all been "living in a lab" the past 9 months and we have all seen firsthand that COVID cases are not being passed among kids during practices, scrimmages or games. We know that youth sports activities are happening in 45 states across the country with no major COVID breakouts amongst youth athletes. We know that large scale tournaments in soccer, lacrosse, football and baseball are occurring every weekend across the US with no significant COVID cases. We know that 3 major college conferences successfully completed full seasons, playing hundreds of games, with very little COVID interruption. We've also seen the data from the Surf White Paper Study, the University of Wisconsin study and the Dutch Football study that shows that 98% of soccer games don't have enough prolonged contact to transmit COVID.

            • Players in CA, NV, WA, OR and NM are not allowed to participate in youth sports. Meanwhile, in the other 45 states across the US those players haven't been asked to stop enjoying the game and competing in the sport they love. Athletes across the country are not being asked to miss their high school sports seasons - only our athletes are. College bound players across the country are playing in showcase events and being offered scholarships while only our players are missing out on that opportunity. The arbitrary nature of this decision making is having a dis-proportionate impact on our players and we feel a responsibility to give them the chance they deserve. 

            • We are confident in our ability to host a safe environment for youth soccer. However, our event allows each club, each team, each family and each athlete to make their own decisions about playing. We will respect every decision and will support those that play and those that choose not to.

To that point, we are offering accepted teams one final opportunity to withdraw from the event and receive a full refund (minus the credit card processing fee).

When your team originally applied for Surf Cup AZ the drop date to receive a refund was November 15th. However, due to the state-by-state changes and the venue changes for our event, we are extending that refund deadline to Wednesday, December 9th at 9pm PST. After this date, refunds will only be issued if AZ cancels the event or due to mandatory out of state travel restrictions from your state. Refunds will not be issued for recommended stay home policies after the 12/9 deadline. Refunds will be minus the credit card processing fee and will be issued via check.

Should you decide to withdraw from the event – please reply to this email with the following information -
Club/team name/gender/birth year
The name of the person whom the refund check should be made payable to
The address that the refund check should be mailed to as we are unable to process refunds back to the credit card used for payment.

Please reply to this email, ONLY if you wish to withdraw from the event, NO LATER THAN Wednesday, December 9th at 9pm PST as we do need to start working on the schedule and we need to know exactly what the numbers are that we are working with for scheduling. 

If you do not reply you will be considered “accepted” for the event and will be scheduled for participation in the event. There is no need to reply to the email if you wish to remain in the event.

We will be providing schedules and field information as we get closer to the event dates. Teams will not need to change dates or hotels. Our dates will remain the same and all venues will be in the general area as originally planned. We will also be communicating our Safety Policies and Procedures prior to the event and we will ask all athletes, coaches and parents to be accountable for keeping our kids safe. If we all respect the protocols, then our children can enjoy the game they love and stay healthy.

See you in Arizona!


----------



## crush

I love the fighting spirit and "the show must go on" mindset.  I want my goat to play in this tournament now.  The fire is in my belly.  The fact that it will take a miracle and some hard core soccer players and their parents to make the trip, will make this a must play tournament.  All eyes will be on AZ Jan 1-4th.  I'm stoked and now ready to make a new wager with @Eagle33.  Quadruple or nothing bro?  Basically if I lose again, I will buy you a keg of the beer of your choice or a barrel of Jack if you like that better and have it delivered for free.  If the Cup is played on those dates, my debt is free and clear?  I will talk to my dd and see if I can;t find a way to "persuade" her to put on her cleats.  Surf Cup was and is bigger then ecnl showcase, MOO, so they might have more LS viewership then this last showcase.


----------



## happy9

whatithink said:


> GotSoccer Rankings - Example below
> 
> View attachment 9590


Here is what I found.  Maybe needs to be updated?  I don't know what the differences between URLs are.





__





						Event Information
					






					events.gotsport.com


----------



## happy9

Eagle33 said:


> What I have noticed is CA teams is not playing/training enough and AZ teams playing/training too much. In both cases risk of injury is very high.


Why would you think AZ teams are playing/training too much?  Not much change between last summer and this summer in terms of workload.  If anything, a little less workload early on with the distanced training.


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> Why would you think AZ teams are playing/training too much?  Not much change between last summer and this summer in terms of workload.  If anything, a little less workload early on with the distanced training.


I heard from the rumor mill that AZ per player injuries is gnarly and something no one has ever seen before.  It was best for Socal girls to hit the pause button.  These girls have been balling non stop since 2011.  Trust me, I know these dads and moms and were ALL ultra competitive over hear in socal. The fact is, I was way more competitive then all of them and when I saw goal post after goal post moved and all the lairs talking, well, I got pissed off.  Today, I'm at peace with myself for the first time ever.  I mean that.  Time to love each other if you want to get along in the future.  I'm not hearing of many injuries in socal and that says a lot.


----------



## soccer4us

crush said:


> I love the fighting spirit and "the show must go on" mindset.  I want my goat to play in this tournament now.  The fire is in my belly.  The fact that it will take a miracle and some hard core soccer players and their parents to make the trip, will make this a must play tournament.  All eyes will be on AZ Jan 1-4th.  I'm stoked and now ready to make a new wager with @Eagle33.  Quadruple or nothing bro?  Basically if I lose again, I will buy you a keg of the beer of your choice or a barrel of Jack if you like that better and have it delivered for free.  If the Cup is played on those dates, my debt is free and clear?  I will talk to my dd and see if I can;t find a way to "persuade" her to put on her cleats.  Surf Cup was and is bigger then ecnl showcase, MOO, so they might have more LS viewership then this last showcase.


Fighting spirit to not lose 2 million dollars in their bank account


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> I heard from the rumor mill that AZ per player injuries is gnarly and something no one has ever seen before.  It was best for Socal girls to hit the pause button.  These girls have been balling non stop since 2011.  Trust me, I know these dads and moms and were ALL ultra competitive over hear in socal. The fact is, I was way more competitive then all of them and when I saw goal post after goal post moved and all the lairs talking, well, I got pissed off.  Today, I'm at peace with myself for the first time ever.  I mean that.  Time to love each other if you want to get along in the future.  I'm not hearing of many injuries in socal and that says a lot.


link? JK.  I haven't seen/heard anything out of the ordinary for injuries.


----------



## Jose has returned

Its early but i can't wait for the chicken littles to wake up and see that *Surf cup is on*.  They will be scrambling to get their hotel and car rentals booked all the while tell us how we are all gonna die or kill other people.


----------



## a beautiful mind

Soccer parent from Texas here! first time caller, long time listener. can someone bottom line this for me? just wanna know if you are on a top team and if you still plan on going to Surf cup? also are you guys in Cali allowed to cross state lines to play? my team is on the fence about going and the dealbreaker for us is if the top Cali teams pull out. thanks in advance


----------



## watfly

htk said:


> Just received this email:
> 
> We are excited to announce that Surf Cup 2020 - Arizona will go on as planned! All aspects of the event, including the filming and free access for college coaches of all recruiting age games, will continue and the dates and general location won't change.
> 
> Although we respect the current COVID situation in our country, we are confident in the safety of outdoor youth sports and our COVID protocols and processes. More importantly, our athletes, families and college coaches have reached out to us in droves imploring us to move forward with the event. The foundation of our rationale is rooted in three core ideas:
> 
> • All qualitative and quantitative data support the idea that COVID is not being transmitted on the field of play during outdoor youth sports activities. We have all been "living in a lab" the past 9 months and we have all seen firsthand that COVID cases are not being passed among kids during practices, scrimmages or games. We know that youth sports activities are happening in 45 states across the country with no major COVID breakouts amongst youth athletes. We know that large scale tournaments in soccer, lacrosse, football and baseball are occurring every weekend across the US with no significant COVID cases. We know that 3 major college conferences successfully completed full seasons, playing hundreds of games, with very little COVID interruption. We've also seen the data from the Surf White Paper Study, the University of Wisconsin study and the Dutch Football study that shows that 98% of soccer games don't have enough prolonged contact to transmit COVID.
> 
> • Players in CA, NV, WA, OR and NM are not allowed to participate in youth sports. Meanwhile, in the other 45 states across the US those players haven't been asked to stop enjoying the game and competing in the sport they love. Athletes across the country are not being asked to miss their high school sports seasons - only our athletes are. College bound players across the country are playing in showcase events and being offered scholarships while only our players are missing out on that opportunity. The arbitrary nature of this decision making is having a dis-proportionate impact on our players and we feel a responsibility to give them the chance they deserve.
> 
> • We are confident in our ability to host a safe environment for youth soccer. However, our event allows each club, each team, each family and each athlete to make their own decisions about playing. We will respect every decision and will support those that play and those that choose not to.
> 
> To that point, we are offering accepted teams one final opportunity to withdraw from the event and receive a full refund (minus the credit card processing fee).
> 
> When your team originally applied for Surf Cup AZ the drop date to receive a refund was November 15th. However, due to the state-by-state changes and the venue changes for our event, we are extending that refund deadline to Wednesday, December 9th at 9pm PST. After this date, refunds will only be issued if AZ cancels the event or due to mandatory out of state travel restrictions from your state. Refunds will not be issued for recommended stay home policies after the 12/9 deadline. Refunds will be minus the credit card processing fee and will be issued via check.
> 
> Should you decide to withdraw from the event – please reply to this email with the following information -
> Club/team name/gender/birth year
> The name of the person whom the refund check should be made payable to
> The address that the refund check should be mailed to as we are unable to process refunds back to the credit card used for payment.
> 
> Please reply to this email, ONLY if you wish to withdraw from the event, NO LATER THAN Wednesday, December 9th at 9pm PST as we do need to start working on the schedule and we need to know exactly what the numbers are that we are working with for scheduling.
> 
> If you do not reply you will be considered “accepted” for the event and will be scheduled for participation in the event. There is no need to reply to the email if you wish to remain in the event.
> 
> We will be providing schedules and field information as we get closer to the event dates. Teams will not need to change dates or hotels. Our dates will remain the same and all venues will be in the general area as originally planned. We will also be communicating our Safety Policies and Procedures prior to the event and we will ask all athletes, coaches and parents to be accountable for keeping our kids safe. If we all respect the protocols, then our children can enjoy the game they love and stay healthy.
> 
> See you in Arizona!


Kudos to Surf (a comment that rarely comes out of my mouth).  Is money a huge factor? Likely.  If politicians can make decisions based on $$$ and power, why can't private entities?  At least Surf is also making a decision based on science.

Like I said, what a great show of civil disobedience, in fact, a perfectly legal one in the municipalities where the games are being held.


----------



## Eagle33

happy9 said:


> Why would you think AZ teams are playing/training too much?  Not much change between last summer and this summer in terms of workload.  If anything, a little less workload early on with the distanced training.


I know few coaches in AZ and they are telling me their teams played well over normal amount of games this Fall


----------



## dad4

a beautiful mind said:


> Soccer parent from Texas here! first time caller, long time listener. can someone bottom line this for me? just wanna know if you are on a top team and if you still plan on going to Surf cup? also are you guys in Cali allowed to cross state lines to play? my team is on the fence about going and the dealbreaker for us is if the top Cali teams pull out. thanks in advance


Varies by county.  Santa clara county is definitely out.  That means no MVLA, BAFC/quakes, CA Thorns, or SC Sporting.

If the rest of the bay area follows SCC again, you lose the rest of the norcal top teams except San Juan, Davis, and Placer.

i have no idea about socal.


----------



## Grace T.

a beautiful mind said:


> also are you guys in Cali allowed to cross state lines to play?


Technically under the state order the answer is no...non essential travel is forbidden.  The question is whether people will ignore the order, taking whatever consequences (if any).


----------



## a beautiful mind

dad4 said:


> Varies by county.  Santa clara county is definitely out.  That means no MVLA, BAFC/quakes, CA Thorns, or SC Sporting.
> 
> If the rest of the bay area follows SCC again, you lose the rest of the norcal top teams except San Juan, Davis, and Placer.
> 
> i have no idea about socal.





Grace T. said:


> Technically under the state order the answer is no...non essential travel is forbidden.  The question is whether people will ignore the order, taking whatever consequences (if any).


without incriminating yourself, can you tell me the prevailing sentiment of the parents? they gonna break the law or nah ?


----------



## happy9

Eagle33 said:


> I know few coaches in AZ and they are telling me their teams played well over normal amount of games this Fall


Depends on the club I guess. I certainly don't feel like we played many more games than normal.  GA/ECNL games really didn't start until 2nd week in OCT.  I don't know exactly how many friendlies were scheduled by AZ teams. I would guess not enough to exceed # of games normally played in SEP.  

I wonder what "well over" means.  1 more, 2 more, 3 more?


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> link?


I would be revealing my sources if I sent links.  I have good friends in Scottsdale too and Phoenix and all their kids play soccer soccer soccer.  For us in Socal, no soccer allowed.  AZ is now the way socal was the last few years.  I bet if dad 4 did a study, this is the fist year that injuries to girl soccer players is way down in socal and nocal.  My dd the last two years now has only played a half a season or 12 games.  24 months divided by 12 is a game every two months.  She is ready to train when the time is right.


----------



## watfly

a beautiful mind said:


> without incriminating yourself, can you tell me the prevailing sentiment of the parents? they gonna break the law or nah ?


My educated guess is that 80-90% will exercise their freedoms and will attend the event.


----------



## Messi>CR7

a beautiful mind said:


> without incriminating yourself, can you tell me the prevailing sentiment of the parents? they gonna break the law or nah ?


I'm waiting to hear back from our club to see what their position is.  I'm not sure our club wants to openly send 10+ teams to Surf Cup against the stay-at-home policy that has been implemented in SoCal.

I'm also very curious to see whether SD Surf send their teams to the event.  It's one thing to organize a completely legal event in Arizona.  But it's another to openly defy a statewide order in California where you generate majority of your income.


----------



## Zen

a beautiful mind said:


> Soccer parent from Texas here! first time caller, long time listener. can someone bottom line this for me? just wanna know if you are on a top team and if you still plan on going to Surf cup? also are you guys in Cali allowed to cross state lines to play? my team is on the fence about going and the dealbreaker for us is if the top Cali teams pull out. thanks in advance


MVLA hasn't pulled out yet.  Should know more this week.  I am not aware of other Norcal team plans.  21 day shelter in place ends by Surf assuming numbers don't ramp.  Teams can quarantine after assuming they go.


----------



## watfly

watfly said:


> My educated guess is that 80-90% will exercise their freedoms and will attend the event.


I should clarify that that's parents choice.  Some clubs will likely pull out and the resultant percentage could be lower.

I know some parents that was hoping it would cancel because of the holiday timing.


----------



## crush

a beautiful mind said:


> Soccer parent from Texas here! first time caller, long time listener. can someone bottom line this for me? just wanna know if you are on a top team and if you still plan on going to Surf cup? also are you guys in Cali allowed to cross state lines to play? my team is on the fence about going and the dealbreaker for us is if the top Cali teams pull out. thanks in advance


I said they will be checking our papers when we try and re enter and folks on here laughed at me.  Right now, if you brag to others they will snitch on you brah.  Where is Doc Mike?  Silk brah in da house?  La Mesa, Del Mar, Oceanside, where is Rancho Pinesikities? how about about Poway?  Show me your lightning bolt!!!!

Listen, I'm all in now for Surf Cup.  My dd has a bday on the 01/04/04 and will not want to drive to AZ.  I need to know what top top teams are planning on risking their lives to cross state lines?  Were in if the ballers come to ball.....


----------



## notintheface

soccer4us said:


> Fighting spirit to not lose 2 million dollars in their bank account


This person gets it. Also check the "(minus credit card processing fees)" in every Surf email. Those fees have a stupidly high margin for Surf.


----------



## dad4

a beautiful mind said:


> without incriminating yourself, can you tell me the prevailing sentiment of the parents? they gonna break the law or nah ?


Whole team is mostly following rules.  Seems to be true in general.  I don’t see many side scrimmages around town, either.

Soccer tennis is big, though.  Just need two trees and a rope.  Roblox/minecraft/Steam all doing well, too.

The older Mexican guys are still playing, of course.   But not many youth.


----------



## crush

watfly said:


> I should clarify that that's parents choice.  Some clubs will likely pull out and the resultant percentage could be lower.


I like the dead line pressure.  In or out and let's ball.  Dec 9th is decision day.  I think its grab and go soccer right about now so I say get while its around


----------



## Spfister

Grace T. said:


> Technically under the state order the answer is no...non essential travel is forbidden.  The question is whether people will ignore the order, taking whatever consequences (if any).


The order says travel outside the area is strongly discouraged. Not forbidden. It’s not a law. No one will be arrested.


----------



## crush

Zen said:


> MVLA hasn't pulled out yet.  Should know more this week.  I am not aware of other Norcal team plans.  21 day shelter in place ends by Surf assuming numbers don't ramp.  Teams can quarantine after assuming they go.


Bro, you need that 04 team their to represent Nocals #1 teams.  I also want to see Deza team too.  If you guys go and top Texas team goes, I bet $100 my dd will change her mind.  We can always celebrate before or after her bday day day.  I'm jacked up and it;s time to go to AZ again for the 4th time in two months.


----------



## notintheface

a beautiful mind said:


> Soccer parent from Texas here! first time caller, long time listener. can someone bottom line this for me? just wanna know if you are on a top team and if you still plan on going to Surf cup? also are you guys in Cali allowed to cross state lines to play? my team is on the fence about going and the dealbreaker for us is if the top Cali teams pull out. thanks in advance


Please understand that "top team" is completely subjective right now. These kids are probably about 20% match sharp and the "results" from Surf Cup are effectively meaningless this year. Any college coaches who do attend are very very likely to only be picking out individual moments of skill and not looking at how the team plays at all. I have serious, serious doubts that you will see a large number of offers based off Surf.

Socal teams are under a stay at home order for the next three weeks. Practicing is allowed, but again with no fall season and no real tournament action this year, these teams are not going to be sharp on their shape work nor will you see the natural teamwork that comes out of playing together consistently for 9+ months. The thing is, everyone understands this except the die-hard brainwashed parents (like you see in the minority here). I actually think Surf could have charged 5x the amount and they still would have suckered these parents into going.

Evaluate your risk vs reward. There is little evidence of kids causing open community spread and if you are diligent with your own mask usage/etc then it is possible for you to attend the tournament. Just know that nobody else is considering this to be a serious tournament beyond "hey these kids are getting 3 games to shake off the rust".


----------



## Dargle

Grace T. said:


> Technically under the state order the answer is no...non essential travel is forbidden.  The question is whether people will ignore the order, taking whatever consequences (if any).


Given that the limited stay-at-home order's minimum time period is three weeks and it went into effect for Southern California as of 12/7, technically it could be lifted for the region the week before Surf Cup if ICU capacity goes above 15%.


----------



## crush

soccer4us said:


> Fighting spirit to not lose 2 million dollars in their bank account


I'm learning to give everyone the benefit of the doubt in the next life.  My wife taught me that in the old life.  She is married to me and anyone who knows us or just me  knows she must be 100% angel.  Think how I acted on here back in the day........  I feel like I was a demon possessed, macho man, with the bible and who was born an orphan, all wrapped in a blanket for my poor wife to handle with care the last 24 years.  I am now healed 100%.  Amazing miracle took place for me and I wanted to share that.  I can say I love my wife more today then at any other time in our marriage.


----------



## crush

notintheface said:


> P*lease understand that "top team" is completely subjective right now. These kids are probably about 20% match sharp and the "results" from Surf Cup are effectively meaningless this year.*


What makes you say this Face?


----------



## a beautiful mind

Zen said:


> MVLA hasn't pulled out yet.  Should know more this week.  I am not aware of other Norcal team plans.  21 day shelter in place ends by Surf assuming numbers don't ramp.  Teams can quarantine after assuming they go.


thanks. hope to see you guys there. I believe we played your MVLA 2010 team @ surf cup 2019. tied 1-1.


----------



## crush

Eagle33 said:


> I know few coaches in AZ and they are telling me their teams played well over normal amount of games this Fall


You think.......it's called wear and tear for a reason


----------



## a beautiful mind

crush said:


> I like the dead line pressure.  In or out and let's ball.  Dec 9th is decision day.  I think its grab and go soccer right about now so I say get while its around


^this^
lol


----------



## crush

crush said:


> I love the fighting spirit and "the show must go on" mindset.  I want my goat to play in this tournament now.  The fire is in my belly.  The fact that it will take a miracle and some hard core soccer players and their parents to make the trip, will make this a must play tournament.  All eyes will be on AZ Jan 1-4th.  I'm stoked and now ready to make a new wager with @Eagle33.  Quadruple or nothing bro?  Basically if I lose again, I will buy you a keg of the beer of your choice or a barrel of Jack if you like that better and have it delivered for free.  If the Cup is played on those dates, my debt is free and clear?  I will talk to my dd and see if I can;t find a way to "persuade" her to put on her cleats.  Surf Cup was and is bigger then ecnl showcase, MOO, so they might have more LS viewership then this last showcase.


Plus, ALL the teams can enter the contest.  I need to know something.  Is there a champion for u17 age group?


----------



## Lavey29

htk said:


> Just received this email:
> 
> We are excited to announce that Surf Cup 2020 - Arizona will go on as planned! All aspects of the event, including the filming and free access for college coaches of all recruiting age games, will continue and the dates and general location won't change.
> 
> Although we respect the current COVID situation in our country, we are confident in the safety of outdoor youth sports and our COVID protocols and processes. More importantly, our athletes, families and college coaches have reached out to us in droves imploring us to move forward with the event. The foundation of our rationale is rooted in three core ideas:
> 
> • All qualitative and quantitative data support the idea that COVID is not being transmitted on the field of play during outdoor youth sports activities. We have all been "living in a lab" the past 9 months and we have all seen firsthand that COVID cases are not being passed among kids during practices, scrimmages or games. We know that youth sports activities are happening in 45 states across the country with no major COVID breakouts amongst youth athletes. We know that large scale tournaments in soccer, lacrosse, football and baseball are occurring every weekend across the US with no significant COVID cases. We know that 3 major college conferences successfully completed full seasons, playing hundreds of games, with very little COVID interruption. We've also seen the data from the Surf White Paper Study, the University of Wisconsin study and the Dutch Football study that shows that 98% of soccer games don't have enough prolonged contact to transmit COVID.
> 
> • Players in CA, NV, WA, OR and NM are not allowed to participate in youth sports. Meanwhile, in the other 45 states across the US those players haven't been asked to stop enjoying the game and competing in the sport they love. Athletes across the country are not being asked to miss their high school sports seasons - only our athletes are. College bound players across the country are playing in showcase events and being offered scholarships while only our players are missing out on that opportunity. The arbitrary nature of this decision making is having a dis-proportionate impact on our players and we feel a responsibility to give them the chance they deserve.
> 
> • We are confident in our ability to host a safe environment for youth soccer. However, our event allows each club, each team, each family and each athlete to make their own decisions about playing. We will respect every decision and will support those that play and those that choose not to.
> 
> To that point, we are offering accepted teams one final opportunity to withdraw from the event and receive a full refund (minus the credit card processing fee).
> 
> When your team originally applied for Surf Cup AZ the drop date to receive a refund was November 15th. However, due to the state-by-state changes and the venue changes for our event, we are extending that refund deadline to Wednesday, December 9th at 9pm PST. After this date, refunds will only be issued if AZ cancels the event or due to mandatory out of state travel restrictions from your state. Refunds will not be issued for recommended stay home policies after the 12/9 deadline. Refunds will be minus the credit card processing fee and will be issued via check.
> 
> Should you decide to withdraw from the event – please reply to this email with the following information -
> Club/team name/gender/birth year
> The name of the person whom the refund check should be made payable to
> The address that the refund check should be mailed to as we are unable to process refunds back to the credit card used for payment.
> 
> Please reply to this email, ONLY if you wish to withdraw from the event, NO LATER THAN Wednesday, December 9th at 9pm PST as we do need to start working on the schedule and we need to know exactly what the numbers are that we are working with for scheduling.
> 
> If you do not reply you will be considered “accepted” for the event and will be scheduled for participation in the event. There is no need to reply to the email if you wish to remain in the event.
> 
> We will be providing schedules and field information as we get closer to the event dates. Teams will not need to change dates or hotels. Our dates will remain the same and all venues will be in the general area as originally planned. We will also be communicating our Safety Policies and Procedures prior to the event and we will ask all athletes, coaches and parents to be accountable for keeping our kids safe. If we all respect the protocols, then our children can enjoy the game they love and stay healthy.
> 
> See you in Arizona!


But, but, but.....oh never mind.

Let them kids play (like the rest of the country is)


----------



## MSK357

a beautiful mind said:


> Soccer parent from Texas here! first time caller, long time listener. can someone bottom line this for me? just wanna know if you are on a top team and if you still plan on going to Surf cup? also are you guys in Cali allowed to cross state lines to play? my team is on the fence about going and the dealbreaker for us is if the top Cali teams pull out. thanks in advance


Dont listen to anyone saying the "top teams" wont be there.  at least from Socal, "Top Teams" that i know got accepted are still planning on going.


----------



## a beautiful mind

a beautiful mind said:


> Soccer parent from Texas here! first time caller, long time listener. can someone bottom line this for me? just wanna know if you are on a top team and if you still plan on going to Surf cup? also are you guys in Cali allowed to cross state lines to play? my team is on the fence about going and the dealbreaker for us is if the top Cali teams pull out. thanks in advance


EDIT: I should clarify, I represent a 2010 U11 squad. Surf cup youngers


----------



## a beautiful mind

notintheface said:


> Please understand that "top team" is completely subjective right now. These kids are probably about 20% match sharp and the "results" from Surf Cup are effectively meaningless this year. Any college coaches who do attend are very very likely to only be picking out individual moments of skill and not looking at how the team plays at all. I have serious, serious doubts that you will see a large number of offers based off Surf.
> 
> Socal teams are under a stay at home order for the next three weeks. Practicing is allowed, but again with no fall season and no real tournament action this year, these teams are not going to be sharp on their shape work nor will you see the natural teamwork that comes out of playing together consistently for 9+ months. The thing is, everyone understands this except the die-hard brainwashed parents (like you see in the minority here). I actually think Surf could have charged 5x the amount and they still would have suckered these parents into going.
> 
> Evaluate your risk vs reward. There is little evidence of kids causing open community spread and if you are diligent with your own mask usage/etc then it is possible for you to attend the tournament. Just know that nobody else is considering this to be a serious tournament beyond "hey these kids are getting 3 games to shake off the rust".


I just wanna know if you're going


----------



## Jose has returned

a beautiful mind said:


> without incriminating yourself, can you tell me the prevailing sentiment of the parents? they gonna break the law or nah ?


I think many of us will follow the example set by our governor and mayors in SF, SJ and LA.   See you there


----------



## a beautiful mind

MSK357 said:


> Dont listen to anyone saying the "top teams" wont be there.  at least from Socal, "Top Teams" that i know got accepted are still planning on going.


thanks for the straight to the point answer. to the best of your knowledge does this sentiment apply to Surf cup youngers and olders? we are a 2010 U11 squad


----------



## texanincali

This is a tough one.  While I think it is absolutely ludicrous that some of these states are not allowing youth sports, mainly because they aren't following the science, it creates a real dilemma.  Kids should be playing and there is virtually no danger while outside on a soccer field.  That doesn't change the fact that so many kids in these states have not been playing.  As stupid as I think these states are, I think it is equally irresponsible to go from 0 to 100 if you are on a team in one of these states.  A kid that has been off from playing soccer for 8 months is in no way ready to go compete in a tournament that is consolidated to 4/5 days.  No amount of running and ball work can properly prepare youth players for a grueling event like Surf Cup.  I will not be sending my kid, not because I think there is risk of Covid, but because she is not physically ready to compete in this tournament.


----------



## a beautiful mind

Jose has returned said:


> I think many of us will follow the example set by our governor and mayors in SF, SJ and LA.   See you there


thanks for responding. Im beginning to be able to form a pattern based on the responses im getting. I detect a theme here!


----------



## notintheface

a beautiful mind said:


> I just wanna know if you're going


We will not be going. Enough parents have said that with the proximity to the holidays, plus the massive uptick in cases, plus the vaccine light at the end of the tunnel, have caused them to reevaluate their desire to get their kid some games right now. We could have fielded a team by bringing kids up from a B team but again, because of the nature of the tournament, there's no point for these kids. They will be enjoying their Christmas/Hanukkah presents this year.


----------



## oh canada

I started this thread and this will be my last post in it unless things change significantly.  No melodrama intended just think all the issues have been covered extensively thanks to all of you.  Well done.

Given that Surf is hellbent on having this single tournament, out of state, in the middle of the worst period for this virus (with no improvement in sight for the next several weeks), the responsible adults in the room will have to be us--the parents and families of 8-18yr old children.  As I've previously written, I admired Surf's efforts through October, but now I lose all respect for them as this is such an obvious malfeasance that puts health and lives at risk.  Shame on them.

So, ask yourself, how important is this one tournament to your child?  Will they remember missing it or playing in it 6 months from now after they play their next tournament in Spring 2021, and the next 15 tournaments in the future (including the ECNL or GA or MLS showcase events for college recruits)?  Will their soccer skills greatly improve by playing 3+ games in three days after an eight month layoff?  Will their long term skills diminish by _not_ playing 3+ games in three days while sharing a hotel room with family members and eating breakfasts out of a paper bag?  

Then ask yourself, will your child remember this tournament if one of her teammates or teammates' family members gets sick and can't get medical care because the hospitals are full?  Will they remember playing in it if one of the thousands of other kids playing in it dies from Covid, caught from a Phoenix restaurant or hotel?  Yes, the risks are low for outdoor sports and children, but they are NOT non-existent.  And the more people you have, the more potential contacts you create.  

I understand the temptation of giving the "middle finger" to government overreach by playing in this tournament---almost like a protest event between two soccer goals.  I am frustrated too.  But now is simply not the time.  September was the time.  April 2021 will be the time.  Not now.  Things really are scary now.  Just ask any doctor or nurse you know. 

Surf, par for the course, is only giving 2 days to make up our minds.  They want our commitments before things get even scarier next week and the week after.  So, do the responsible thing and tell your team managers "you and your family are taking a pass on this one."  By doing so, you are prioritizing your child's health, your family's health, your local community's health, and the AZ community's health.  Are these not more noble, moral, and intelligent reasons than winning a plastic trophy?  You also will be teaching your kids a valuable lesson...some things are more important than soccer.  Those that attend will _never_ be able to say the same.


----------



## Jose has returned

SURF CUP The show goes on....


----------



## notintheface

a beautiful mind said:


> thanks for the straight to the point answer. to the best of your knowledge does this sentiment apply to Surf cup youngers and olders? we are a 2010 U11 squad


Your kid is 11 years old. They have years and years and years of play ahead of them. This summer, knock on wood, your kid will be playing again like nothing ever happened. If you're looking for "top teams" for Ulittle, come on, you already know the answer here.


----------



## MSK357

a beautiful mind said:


> thanks for the straight to the point answer. to the best of your knowledge does this sentiment apply to Surf cup youngers and olders? we are a 2010 U11 squad


Youngers.


----------



## 46n2

top team, multiple SC trophys and the squad is going 
obviously much different feel after all the set backs this year
look forward to making it a mini vacation and watching some soccer.


----------



## a beautiful mind

texanincali said:


> This is a tough one.  While I think it is absolutely ludicrous that some of these states are not allowing youth sports, mainly because they aren't following the science, it creates a real dilemma.  Kids should be playing and there is virtually no danger while outside on a soccer field.  That doesn't change the fact that so many kids in these states have not been playing.  As stupid as I think these states are, I think it is equally irresponsible to go from 0 to 100 if you are on a team in one of these states.  A kid that has been off from playing soccer for 8 months is in no way ready to go compete in a tournament that is consolidated to 4/5 days.  No amount of running and ball work can properly prepare youth players for a grueling event like Surf Cup.  I will not be sending my kid, not because I think there is risk of Covid, but because she is not physically ready to compete in this tournament.


so you have no backyard? just kidding. this is not my thinking, and based on the feedback I am receiving from this community not alot are following this train of thought. BUT I completely understand and therefor cannot frown upon your logic. 
 I appreciate your response.


----------



## MSK357

a beautiful mind said:


> so you have no backyard? just kidding. this is not my thinking, and based on the feedback I am receiving from this community not alot are following this train of thought. BUT I completely understand and therefor cannot frown upon your logic.
> I appreciate your response.


"Top Teams" have been playing throughout the restrictions.  Whether its private indoor facilities or parks where authorities let kids play.  All you have to do is look at the tournaments outside of california and see how many teams from california were there.  "Top teams" will have no issue playing since they have been playing all along.  We welcome the competition. see you at surf.


----------



## happy9

notintheface said:


> Your kid is 11 years old. They have years and years and years of play ahead of them. This summer, knock on wood, your kid will be playing again like nothing ever happened. If you're looking for "top teams" for Ulittle, come on, you already know the answer here.


Don't even have to wait that long, there are two large back to back tournaments in AZ in *FEB.  *Each of these tournaments attract national and international teams.  Not projecting many international teams coming but plenty of teams from across the country will come, maybe.


----------



## notintheface

a beautiful mind said:


> so you have no backyard? just kidding.


I know this is a joke but for a little info for you out-of-staters: for a large percentage of kids who can really ball in LA county, the answer to that question is no. They get their work done at practice and at school. Take those away, and you can guess what's happening.


----------



## a beautiful mind

notintheface said:


> Your kid is 11 years old. They have years and years and years of play ahead of them. This summer, knock on wood, your kid will be playing again like nothing ever happened. If you're looking for "top teams" for Ulittle, come on, you already know the answer here.


We Texas here homie! we been playing! full throttle! but that doesn't mean that I don't understand your sentiment. 
HERE COMES THE "BUT"...
BUT, I completely disagree when parents with older kids advise us with younger kids to "calm down".
im gonna savor every moment. let us enjoy the ride.
I yield the floor back to the gentleman from california


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> I know this is a joke but for a little info for you out-of-staters: for a large percentage of kids who can really ball in LA county, the answer to that question is no. They get their work done at practice and at school. Take those away, and you can guess what's happening.


You must not be going to the scrimmages at parks where authorities look the other way. or indoor facilities that have been letting kids play.


----------



## a beautiful mind

notintheface said:


> We will not be going. Enough parents have said that with the proximity to the holidays, plus the massive uptick in cases, plus the vaccine light at the end of the tunnel, have caused them to reevaluate their desire to get their kid some games right now. We could have fielded a team by bringing kids up from a B team but again, because of the nature of the tournament, there's no point for these kids. They will be enjoying their Christmas/Hanukkah presents this year.


understood.
thanks for responding


----------



## MSK357

a beautiful mind said:


> understood.
> thanks for responding


To be honest, he probably wasnt going even in a normal year.


----------



## a beautiful mind

oh canada said:


> I started this thread and this will be my last post in it unless things change significantly.  No melodrama intended just think all the issues have been covered extensively thanks to all of you.  Well done.
> 
> Given that Surf is hellbent on having this single tournament, out of state, in the middle of the worst period for this virus (with no improvement in sight for the next several weeks), the responsible adults in the room will have to be us--the parents and families of 8-18yr old children.  As I've previously written, I admired Surf's efforts through October, but now I lose all respect for them as this is such an obvious malfeasance that puts health and lives at risk.  Shame on them.
> 
> So, ask yourself, how important is this one tournament to your child?  Will they remember missing it or playing in it 6 months from now after they play their next tournament in Spring 2021, and the next 15 tournaments in the future (including the ECNL or GA or MLS showcase events for college recruits)?  Will their soccer skills greatly improve by playing 3+ games in three days after an eight month layoff?  Will their long term skills diminish by _not_ playing 3+ games in three days while sharing a hotel room with family members and eating breakfasts out of a paper bag?
> 
> Then ask yourself, will your child remember this tournament if one of her teammates or teammates' family members gets sick and can't get medical care because the hospitals are full?  Will they remember playing in it if one of the thousands of other kids playing in it dies from Covid, caught from a Phoenix restaurant or hotel?  Yes, the risks are low for outdoor sports and children, but they are NOT non-existent.  And the more people you have, the more potential contacts you create.
> 
> I understand the temptation of giving the "middle finger" to government overreach by playing in this tournament---almost like a protest event between two soccer goals.  I am frustrated too.  But now is simply not the time.  September was the time.  April 2021 will be the time.  Not now.  Things really are scary now.  Just ask any doctor or nurse you know.
> 
> Surf, par for the course, is only giving 2 days to make up our minds.  They want our commitments before things get even scarier next week and the week after.  So, do the responsible thing and tell your team managers "you and your family are taking a pass on this one."  By doing so, you are prioritizing your child's health, your family's health, your local community's health, and the AZ community's health.  Are these not more noble, moral, and intelligent reasons than winning a plastic trophy?  You also will be teaching your kids a valuable lesson...some things are more important than soccer.  Those that attend will _never_ be able to say the same.


stopped reading at "malfeasance" lol


----------



## a beautiful mind

MSK357 said:


> To be honest, he probably wasnt going even in a normal year.


oh snap, shots fired!


----------



## a beautiful mind

MSK357 said:


> "Top Teams" have been playing throughout the restrictions.  Whether its private indoor facilities or parks where authorities let kids play.  All you have to do is look at the tournaments outside of california and see how many teams from california were there.  "Top teams" will have no issue playing since they have been playing all along.  We welcome the competition. see you at surf.


this is great to hear.
any cosigners?


----------



## timbuck

If the fields are getting moved but hotel reservations are staying the same -  Will people be driving an extended distance to get to games?
(We were out there a few weeks ago for Rush Cup.  1 kid had games about 5 minutes from out hotel. Another was 45 minutes)


----------



## MSK357

timbuck said:


> If the fields are getting moved but hotel reservations are staying the same -  Will people be driving an extended distance to get to games?
> (We were out there a few weeks ago for Rush Cup.  1 kid had games about 5 minutes from out hotel. Another was 45 minutes)


Fields shouldnt be changing for youngers.


----------



## dawson

Some people say that in SoCal the current mandate *does NOT restrict or prohibit non-contact soccer practice* . I have read others who say 
it does prohibit non-contact soccer practice.

For a point of reference I'm not interested in whether it violates the spirit of the mandate ( *that's a separate issue that has been and can continue to be discussed* *elsewhere *) I would like to know if the mandate literally ( in a legal sense ) restricts non contact soccer practice . There appear to be a few posters on this forum who spend a lot of time studying this stuff and some who seem to have a good  background for this. I hope a few 
give their opinion with perhaps a short ( or long ) explanation. 

I think this may be of some benefit to coaches , managers and parents as part of the process to decide whether they *go to Surf or not.*


----------



## notintheface

MSK357 said:


> You must not be going to the scrimmages at parks where authorities look the other way. or indoor facilities that have been letting kids play.


We are running intra-club scrimmages consistently at practice as are associates but as you know that is no substitute for fall league play. You are talking about "indoor facilities" like the thousands of teams from the hundreds of clubs in the area are all running to their local warehouse to go crazy. That ain't happening, friendo. Onesie-twosies do not make a pattern.


----------



## a beautiful mind

dawson said:


> Some people say that in SoCal the current mandate *does NOT restrict or prohibit non-contact soccer practice* . I have read others who say
> it does prohibit non-contact soccer practice.
> 
> For a point of reference I'm not interested in whether it violates the spirit of the mandate ( *that's a separate issue that has been and can continue to be discussed* *elsewhere *) I would like to know if the mandate literally ( in a legal sense ) restricts non contact soccer practice . There appear to be a few posters on this forum who spend a lot of time studying this stuff and some who seem to have a good  background for this. I hope a few
> give their opinion with perhaps a short ( or long ) explanation.
> 
> I think this may be of some benefit to coaches , managers and parents as part of the process to decide whether they *go to Surf or not.*


*^this^*


----------



## crush

a beautiful mind said:


> EDIT: I should clarify, I represent a 2010 U11 squad. Surf cup youngers


U10 was the age my dd old team was eligible.  However, her club was denied and the Doc was not all too happy about that and the selection process. heck, theses same club would then poach their goats. Talk about cut throat competition back in 2014.  We bailed for Blues because their teams were automatic, like Duke is in Hoops for March Madness.  Never missed a Surf Cup ever since and I'm looking forward to this new version in AZ.


----------



## happy9

MSK357 said:


> Fields shouldnt be changing for youngers.


If the youngers were scheduled for SSC only, then yes.  If they were scheduled for SSC and Reach, there will be a change.


----------



## notintheface

MSK357 said:


> To be honest, he probably wasnt going even in a normal year.


Aside from just trying to shit on someone who literally does not care about you, I don't understand why you would even make this post. Surf has been very very good for us in the past and has been a staple of our tournament play along with Vegas Cup, the yearly trip to Orlando, etc. We also realistically understand that as of last March, the year 2020 was going to be shot. Please stop trying to deny reality.


----------



## happy9

timbuck said:


> If the fields are getting moved but hotel reservations are staying the same -  Will people be driving an extended distance to get to games?
> (We were out there a few weeks ago for Rush Cup.  1 kid had games about 5 minutes from out hotel. Another was 45 minutes)


Depends on what fields the Reach games are being diverted to.


----------



## crush

MSK357 said:


> You must not be going to the scrimmages at parks where authorities look the other way. or indoor facilities that have been letting kids play.


Shhhhhhhh!!


----------



## Messi>CR7

dawson said:


> Some people say that in SoCal the current mandate *does NOT restrict or prohibit non-contact soccer practice* . I have read others who say
> it does prohibit non-contact soccer practice.
> 
> For a point of reference I'm not interested in whether it violates the spirit of the mandate ( *that's a separate issue that has been and can continue to be discussed* *elsewhere *) I would like to know if the mandate literally ( in a legal sense ) restricts non contact soccer practice . There appear to be a few posters on this forum who spend a lot of time studying this stuff and some who seem to have a good  background for this. I hope a few
> give their opinion with perhaps a short ( or long ) explanation.
> 
> I think this may be of some benefit to coaches , managers and parents as part of the process to decide whether they *go to Surf or not.*


It depends on your city/county that owns the fields.  Here you go for OC Great Park:




__





						City Facility Updates
					

As the state moves beyond the Blueprint for a Safer Economy on June 15, the City of Irvine is excited to welcome back residents to our facilities. While some modifications and limited measures may remain, we can expect to see much of life return to normal. See below for more information.




					www.cityofirvine.org


----------



## crush

Messi>CR7 said:


> It depends on your city/county that owns the fields.  Here you go for OC Great Park:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> City Facility Updates
> 
> 
> As the state moves beyond the Blueprint for a Safer Economy on June 15, the City of Irvine is excited to welcome back residents to our facilities. While some modifications and limited measures may remain, we can expect to see much of life return to normal. See below for more information.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cityofirvine.org


My dd does her private training at GP and all is good so far.  Club is mandated to obey all rules or else.   Only 6 x 6 fake weak soccer is allowed.  It's up to each goat to be ready by Jan 1st.  Plenty of time to get ready.  If you have the will to play big time Surf Cup soccer, then by all means those most committed and dedicated will show up.  All others will continue to make excuses.  It's all good under the sun.  To each family their own.  I'm going to see how much my dd wants soccer over bday party with friends & family and presents.


----------



## a beautiful mind

timbuck said:


> If the fields are getting moved but hotel reservations are staying the same -  Will people be driving an extended distance to get to games?
> (We were out there a few weeks ago for Rush Cup.  1 kid had games about 5 minutes from out hotel. Another was 45 minutes)


I don't have a dog in this particular fight. but after driving all the way to Arizona....40 more minutes of driving should NOT be the main deal-breaker for you! jus saying!


----------



## soccer4us

Zen said:


> MVLA hasn't pulled out yet.  Should know more this week.  I am not aware of other Norcal team plans.  21 day shelter in place ends by Surf assuming numbers don't ramp.  Teams can quarantine after assuming they go.


Considering SC county just threatened MVLA by taking their business license/non profit away if they went to South Carolina this past weekend, I'd be surprised if they were at Surf. Never say never though...


----------



## timbuck

oh canada said:


> I started this thread and this will be my last post in it unless things change significantly.  No melodrama intended just think all the issues have been covered extensively thanks to all of you.  Well done.
> 
> Given that Surf is hellbent on having this single tournament, out of state, in the middle of the worst period for this virus (with no improvement in sight for the next several weeks), the responsible adults in the room will have to be us--the parents and families of 8-18yr old children.  As I've previously written, I admired Surf's efforts through October, but now I lose all respect for them as this is such an obvious malfeasance that puts health and lives at risk.  Shame on them.
> 
> So, ask yourself, how important is this one tournament to your child?  Will they remember missing it or playing in it 6 months from now after they play their next tournament in Spring 2021, and the next 15 tournaments in the future (including the ECNL or GA or MLS showcase events for college recruits)?  Will their soccer skills greatly improve by playing 3+ games in three days after an eight month layoff?  Will their long term skills diminish by _not_ playing 3+ games in three days while sharing a hotel room with family members and eating breakfasts out of a paper bag?
> 
> Then ask yourself, will your child remember this tournament if one of her teammates or teammates' family members gets sick and can't get medical care because the hospitals are full?  Will they remember playing in it if one of the thousands of other kids playing in it dies from Covid, caught from a Phoenix restaurant or hotel?  Yes, the risks are low for outdoor sports and children, but they are NOT non-existent.  And the more people you have, the more potential contacts you create.
> 
> I understand the temptation of giving the "middle finger" to government overreach by playing in this tournament---almost like a protest event between two soccer goals.  I am frustrated too.  But now is simply not the time.  September was the time.  April 2021 will be the time.  Not now.  Things really are scary now.  Just ask any doctor or nurse you know.
> 
> Surf, par for the course, is only giving 2 days to make up our minds.  They want our commitments before things get even scarier next week and the week after.  So, do the responsible thing and tell your team managers "you and your family are taking a pass on this one."  By doing so, you are prioritizing your child's health, your family's health, your local community's health, and the AZ community's health.  Are these not more noble, moral, and intelligent reasons than winning a plastic trophy?  You also will be teaching your kids a valuable lesson...some things are more important than soccer.  Those that attend will _never_ be able to say the same.


Its like we share a brain on this.  Well written and I agree 100%


----------



## EOTL

oh canada said:


> I started this thread and this will be my last post in it unless things change significantly.  No melodrama intended just think all the issues have been covered extensively thanks to all of you.  Well done.
> 
> Given that Surf is hellbent on having this single tournament, out of state, in the middle of the worst period for this virus (with no improvement in sight for the next several weeks), the responsible adults in the room will have to be us--the parents and families of 8-18yr old children.  As I've previously written, I admired Surf's efforts through October, but now I lose all respect for them as this is such an obvious malfeasance that puts health and lives at risk.  Shame on them.
> 
> So, ask yourself, how important is this one tournament to your child?  Will they remember missing it or playing in it 6 months from now after they play their next tournament in Spring 2021, and the next 15 tournaments in the future (including the ECNL or GA or MLS showcase events for college recruits)?  Will their soccer skills greatly improve by playing 3+ games in three days after an eight month layoff?  Will their long term skills diminish by _not_ playing 3+ games in three days while sharing a hotel room with family members and eating breakfasts out of a paper bag?
> 
> Then ask yourself, will your child remember this tournament if one of her teammates or teammates' family members gets sick and can't get medical care because the hospitals are full?  Will they remember playing in it if one of the thousands of other kids playing in it dies from Covid, caught from a Phoenix restaurant or hotel?  Yes, the risks are low for outdoor sports and children, but they are NOT non-existent.  And the more people you have, the more potential contacts you create.
> 
> I understand the temptation of giving the "middle finger" to government overreach by playing in this tournament---almost like a protest event between two soccer goals.  I am frustrated too.  But now is simply not the time.  September was the time.  April 2021 will be the time.  Not now.  Things really are scary now.  Just ask any doctor or nurse you know.
> 
> Surf, par for the course, is only giving 2 days to make up our minds.  They want our commitments before things get even scarier next week and the week after.  So, do the responsible thing and tell your team managers "you and your family are taking a pass on this one."  By doing so, you are prioritizing your child's health, your family's health, your local community's health, and the AZ community's health.  Are these not more noble, moral, and intelligent reasons than winning a plastic trophy?  You also will be teaching your kids a valuable lesson...some things are more important than soccer.  Those that attend will _never_ be able to say the same.


This is some thoughtful stuff here. The only question mark is whether April will actually be better. It looks like a vaccine will be widely available by then, but we also know the youth soccer crowd in the OC is rampant with anti-vaxxers. I guess we’ll see how many there really are and how much they get in the way of human life this spring.

All of this is very simple.  The more people have more interactions, the worse it gets. Period. The time on the plane, in the carpool, at the bar, the restaurants, the hotel lobbies, in the elevators, hanging in the parking lot with the other stupid parents, even the kids’ time on the field, involve unnecessary interactions that result in significant spread when 60,000 people all travel to the same place and then many then take it back. The risk of getting it in each of the 500-1000 unnecessary interactions a person had on the trip is low, but the overall risk having so many low risk interactions is very high. And inevitable that many will get it when so many people are involved, and also inevitable that many grandmas will then die after Sally and her knuckle dragging parents come home from their tournament where Sally scored an epic game winner in her U13 game.


----------



## keeprunning

Just received a text that Slammers and LAFC pulled out of Surf Cup.


----------



## crush

a beautiful mind said:


> I don't have a dog in this particular fight. but after driving all the way to Arizona....40 more minutes of driving should NOT be the main deal-breaker for you! jus saying!


BTW, welcome Lurker to the socal soccer forum.  I love the avatar name too and all that the brain can do.  I was introduced to this place back in 2013. I never lurked either, I just got on here and let it rip like I did when I surfed and almost made pro back in the late 70s.  I was so good at surfing and felt my best in the ocean as the sun was setting.  Parsons and Booth all told me to go pro and I said, "no way brahs, I only surf for Jah.  No leash brah."  I was so cocky back then.  I actually told them I was going to UCLA and play hoops instead......not!!!!!  I did "snap!!!!!!!!!" my ACL and it was all over.  I think if I put  more into training I could have walked on and played for Walk Hazzard.  He came and watched my CIF game.  I played the game of my life but he never talked with me.  He was after a 6 9' stud from Nogales HS and I was hoping to catch his eye.


----------



## Lavey29

texanincali said:


> This is a tough one.  While I think it is absolutely ludicrous that some of these states are not allowing youth sports, mainly because they aren't following the science, it creates a real dilemma.  Kids should be playing and there is virtually no danger while outside on a soccer field.  That doesn't change the fact that so many kids in these states have not been playing.  As stupid as I think these states are, I think it is equally irresponsible to go from 0 to 100 if you are on a team in one of these states.  A kid that has been off from playing soccer for 8 months is in no way ready to go compete in a tournament that is consolidated to 4/5 days.  No amount of running and ball work can properly prepare youth players for a grueling event like Surf Cup.  I will not be sending my kid, not because I think there is risk of Covid, but because she is not physically ready to compete in this tournament.



Excellent points, I feel my kid is not in her typical game shape condition either but at age 16 she can offer her opinion on whether she wants to play or not. The coach understands the team is not where it should be at this point in the season.  She has been very deliberate with substituting and game minutes in the few games we have played which is good to help prevent injury. My kid just wants to compete though.


----------



## crush

keeprunning said:


> Just received a text that Slammers and LAFC pulled out of Surf Cup.


I bet those two clubs really love each other too.........


----------



## a beautiful mind

Its me again asking another favor. concerning Surf cup youngers tourney (dec 27th-29th). and im not asking on a club level just team by team. as far as 2010s go.
please DM me if you know for a fact that your team is either in or out...definitely. using Surf cup officials ruling and not the state of California's.
just your teams name with a yes or no. Texas teams wants to travel but we need to know if it will be worth it.
thanks in advance!


----------



## GT45

soccer4us said:


> Considering SC county just threatened MVLA by taking their business license/non profit away if they went to South Carolina this past weekend, I'd be surprised if they were at Surf. Never say never though...


The Gov order is for THREE WEEKS. Surf Cup is after that three week period. Some of you want to sh*t on Surf. They are operating within the boundaries of the guidelines. They have a right to legally run their business just like everyone else does. If you don't want to go. Don't. If your kid's team did not get accepted, save your sour grapes.


----------



## LASTMAN14

keeprunning said:


> Just received a text that Slammers and LAFC pulled out of Surf Cup.


Correct.


----------



## EOTL

a beautiful mind said:


> thanks for the straight to the point answer. to the best of your knowledge does this sentiment apply to Surf cup youngers and olders? we are a 2010 U11 squad


This is perhaps the most perfect explanation why there aren’t soccer tournaments in CA right now.  When so many parents of 10 year old girls are so willing to put the lives of others in danger to feed their own egos, they need to be stopped to the full extent possible. And when it cannot be completely stopped, it needs to be made as hard as possible so that as few of these idiots as possible are able to engage in the stupid unnecessary behavior that gets people killed. 

Because most Californians aren’t willing or financially able, or aren’t stupid enough, to travel to AZ so because they can’t wait until April for their 10 year old to play in a soccer tournament, we can at least minimize deaths by banning tournaments here.


----------



## EOTL

GT45 said:


> The Gov order is for THREE WEEKS. Surf Cup is after that three week period. Some of you want to sh*t on Surf. They are operating within the boundaries of the guidelines. They have a right to legally run their business just like everyone else does. If you don't want to go. Don't. If your kid's team did not get accepted, save your sour grapes.


It is for 3 weeks right now. Do you really think things will turn around by then? Have you been reading the posts here? This is America where no one cares about the lives of others, especially if they get in the way of a U11 soccer game.


----------



## watfly

notintheface said:


> We are running intra-club scrimmages consistently at practice as are associates but as you know that is no substitute for fall league play.


I'm not being critical, since our club is doing the same, but isn't that against the state mandates?  I believe the state hasn't really issued any guidance other than the allowance of socially distanced practices.  I believe that Calsouth may have said small sided scrimmages are OK, but I don't think the State has technically approved anything other than socially distanced practice.  That's my understanding, as wrong as it may be.  What's your understanding?


----------



## crush

GT45 said:


> The Gov order is for THREE WEEKS. Surf Cup is after that three week period. *Some of you want to sh*t on Surf. *They are operating within the boundaries of the guidelines. They have a right to legally run their business just like everyone else does. If you don't want to go. Don't. If your kid's team did not get accepted, save your sour grapes.


I've done my share of quips in the past but I honestly like their will to fight and bring soccer to socal kids and whatever it takes to make it happen.  I like their argument over the argument from EOTL, just saying.  We need soccer as much as soccer needs us. Soccer will bring healing to all of us.  It's universal.  Go soccer!!!


----------



## crush

watfly said:


> I'm not being critical, since our club is doing the same, but isn't that against the state mandates?  I believe the state hasn't really issued any guidance other than the allowance of socially distanced practices.  I believe that Calsouth may have said small sided scrimmages are OK, but I don't think the State has technically approved anything other than socially distanced practice.  That's my understanding, as wrong as it may be.  What's your understanding?


He's not responding to me so excellent question.  It's called being a hypocrite.


----------



## crush

notintheface said:


> Aside from just trying to shit on someone who literally does not care about you, I don't understand why you would even make this post. Surf has been very very good for us in the past and has been a staple of our tournament play along with Vegas Cup, the yearly trip to Orlando, etc. *We also realistically understand that as of last March, the year 2020* *was going to be shot*. Please stop trying to deny reality.


A true winners attitude right there.


----------



## crush

a beautiful mind said:


> Its me again asking another favor. concerning Surf cup youngers tourney (dec 27th-29th). and im not asking on a club level just team by team. as far as 2010s go.
> please DM me if you know for a fact that your team is either in or out...definitely. using Surf cup officials ruling and not the state of California's.
> just your teams name with a yes or no. Texas teams wants to travel but we need to know if it will be worth it.
> thanks in advance!


@Luis Andres, you guys going to AZ for the Cup?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

notintheface said:


> We will not be going. Enough parents have said that with the proximity to the holidays, plus the massive uptick in cases, plus the vaccine light at the end of the tunnel, have caused them to reevaluate their desire to get their kid some games right now. We could have fielded a team by bringing kids up from a B team but again, because of the nature of the tournament, there's no point for these kids. They will be enjoying their Christmas/Hanukkah presents this year.


This is the biggest problem for all teams right now.  Some parents are getting concerned with the covid situation and also looking for a reason to stay at home for the holidays.   The teams will go to Surf but I suspect many will be missing more than a couple of players.


----------



## a beautiful mind

crush said:


> BTW, welcome Lurker to the socal soccer forum.  I love the avatar name too and all that the brain can do.  I was introduced to this place back in 2013. I never lurked either, I just got on here and let it rip like I did when I surfed and almost made pro back in the late 70s.  I was so good at surfing and felt my best in the ocean as the sun was setting.  Parsons and Booth all told me to go pro and I said, "no way brahs, I only surf for Jah.  No leash brah."  I was so cocky back then.  I actually told them I was going to UCLA and play hoops instead......not!!!!!  I did "snap!!!!!!!!!" my ACL and it was all over.  I think if I put  more into training I could have walked on and played for Walk Hazzard.  He came and watched my CIF game.  I played the game of my life but he never talked with me.  He was after a 6 9' stud from Nogales HS and I was hoping to catch his eye.


well your screenplay seems finished, all we gotta do now is start casting the actors lol.


----------



## ToonArmy

keeprunning said:


> Just received a text that Slammers and LAFC pulled out of Surf Cup.


Me too


----------



## a beautiful mind

EOTL said:


> This is perhaps the most perfect explanation why there aren’t soccer tournaments in CA right now.  When so many parents of 10 year old girls are so willing to put the lives of others in danger to feed their own egos, they need to be stopped to the full extent possible. And when it cannot be completely stopped, it needs to be made as hard as possible so that as few of these idiots as possible are able to engage in the stupid unnecessary behavior that gets people killed.
> 
> Because most Californians aren’t willing or financially able, or aren’t stupid enough, to travel to AZ so because they can’t wait until April for their 10 year old to play in a soccer tournament, we can at least minimize deaths by banning tournaments here.


this must be the govenors burner account


----------



## crush

a beautiful mind said:


> well your screenplay seems finished, all we gotta do now is start casting the actors lol.


It was an amazing 54 years in that old system I lived.  Yuck is all I can say.  When I say yuck, I mean me f$$$ me and woe is me.  Big baby I was.  I had a little chat with myself we got things straighten out finally.  I mean that 100%.  Before we get to the good stuff that was promised to all of us, we need to finish the race and get through the other side of the storm.  Were in the eye as we speak.  I have no idea what it will be like but I'm ready to get hit by anything.  Play ball!!!!


----------



## Speed

chiefs said:


> Why not have your governor bring in the hospital ship like spring time? Then there is no capacity issues.


because he is an idiot


oh canada said:


> I started this thread and this will be my last post in it unless things change significantly.  No melodrama intended just think all the issues have been covered extensively thanks to all of you.  Well done.
> 
> Given that Surf is hellbent on having this single tournament, out of state, in the middle of the worst period for this virus (with no improvement in sight for the next several weeks), the responsible adults in the room will have to be us--the parents and families of 8-18yr old children.  As I've previously written, I admired Surf's efforts through October, but now I lose all respect for them as this is such an obvious malfeasance that puts health and lives at risk.  Shame on them.
> 
> So, ask yourself, how important is this one tournament to your child?  Will they remember missing it or playing in it 6 months from now after they play their next tournament in Spring 2021, and the next 15 tournaments in the future (including the ECNL or GA or MLS showcase events for college recruits)?  Will their soccer skills greatly improve by playing 3+ games in three days after an eight month layoff?  Will their long term skills diminish by _not_ playing 3+ games in three days while sharing a hotel room with family members and eating breakfasts out of a paper bag?
> 
> Then ask yourself, will your child remember this tournament if one of her teammates or teammates' family members gets sick and can't get medical care because the hospitals are full?  Will they remember playing in it if one of the thousands of other kids playing in it dies from Covid, caught from a Phoenix restaurant or hotel?  Yes, the risks are low for outdoor sports and children, but they are NOT non-existent.  And the more people you have, the more potential contacts you create.
> 
> I understand the temptation of giving the "middle finger" to government overreach by playing in this tournament---almost like a protest event between two soccer goals.  I am frustrated too.  But now is simply not the time.  September was the time.  April 2021 will be the time.  Not now.  Things really are scary now.  Just ask any doctor or nurse you know.
> 
> Surf, par for the course, is only giving 2 days to make up our minds.  They want our commitments before things get even scarier next week and the week after.  So, do the responsible thing and tell your team managers "you and your family are taking a pass on this one."  By doing so, you are prioritizing your child's health, your family's health, your local community's health, and the AZ community's health.  Are these not more noble, moral, and intelligent reasons than winning a plastic trophy?  You also will be teaching your kids a valuable lesson...some things are more important than soccer.  Those that attend will _never_ be able to say the same.


didn't read most of what you wrote but in our area 3 youth suicides in last week alone. We are going and thankful surf is doing what it needs to for it to happen.


----------



## lafalafa

watfly said:


> I'm not being critical, since our club is doing the same, but isn't that against the state mandates?  I believe the state hasn't really issued any guidance other than the allowance of socially distanced practices.  I believe that Calsouth may have said small sided scrimmages are OK, but I don't think the State has technically approved anything other than socially distanced practice.  That's my understanding, as wrong as it may be.  What's your understanding?


LA county heath has yet to issue any guidance allowing anything other than camps, conditioning, or distance training.   Scrimmages of any kind not allowed and there direct reference in the order prohibiting any game play. 

Some found workarounds by traveling to other places that would allow it or that look the other way.

School conditioning was allowed until just today when superintendent came down and closed all conditioning  and in person @.all schools in LA unified.

Not participating in surf but we had planned to go to Arizona for the MLS next friendlies but that was canceled.


----------



## Jose has returned

won't let me post.  its the wolf of wall street "I'm not leaving"


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> We are running intra-club scrimmages consistently at practice as are associates but as you know that is no substitute for fall league play. You are talking about "indoor facilities" like the thousands of teams from the hundreds of clubs in the area are all running to their local warehouse to go crazy. That ain't happening, friendo. Onesie-twosies do not make a pattern.


Its not Onsie-twosies and full games at parks to include outdoor turf fields count for something. Maybe you haven't been invited to those but they are happening and happening every weekend for the past couple months.


----------



## MSK357

happy9 said:


> If the youngers were scheduled for SSC only, then yes.  If they were scheduled for SSC and Reach, there will be a change.


Youngers are not a reach. Only ssc.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Zen said:


> MVLA hasn't pulled out yet.  Should know more this week.  I am not aware of other Norcal team plans.  21 day shelter in place ends by Surf assuming numbers don't ramp.  Teams can quarantine after assuming they go.


Remember, the county is enabled to be more restrictive than the state, and Santa Clara is currently exercising the power to be more restrictive. I don’t expect that to change. I’d be shocked if SC county lifts anything until AT LEAST  Monday, January 4th. They will want to discourage people from getting together on the weekend of New Year’s and shelter in place is the tool they have used. Also, it doesn’t appear we peaked yet in CA cases.


----------



## MSK357

crush said:


> Shhhhhhhh!!


You're right, nevermind notintheface. We aren't playing any games. All socal players and teams have regressed just like yours.


----------



## crush

Speed said:


> because he is an idiot
> 
> didn't read most of what you wrote but in our area 3 youth suicides in last week alone. We are going and thankful surf is doing what it needs to for it to happen.


It is getting bad Speed and I mean really bad.  Christmas is not even here yet and more and more folks are calling it quits, like never before in our life time.  How many kids have died since March 11 from suicide by self, subside by dad who is already mentally ill and needs help but cant find help because no one can meet up to check up on each other.  You know, I am my brothers keeper and we should look to help our family members out, neighbors and friends.  People need face to face cheer and love, not isolation.  This is so lame, for reals!!!  No one is allowed to go out to see someone else.  This is one serious lock down and I will follow and obey until others say enough is enough and something beautiful can take place.


----------



## crush

kickingandscreaming said:


> Remember, the county is enabled to be more restrictive than the state, and Santa Clara is currently exercising the power to be more restrictive. I don’t expect that to change. I’d be shocked if SC county lifts anything until AT LEAST  Monday, January 4th. They will want to discourage people from getting together on the weekend of New Year’s and shelter in place is the tool they have used. Also, it doesn’t appear we peaked yet in CA cases.


So if you want to ball in SC, you will need a vaccine, right?  Mask vs Vaccine, ya right.  OC had over 2,000+ positives.


----------



## notintheface

GT45 said:


> They are operating within the boundaries of the guidelines. They have a right to legally run their business just like everyone else does.


Look at it this way-- take the money out of the equation. Do you believe Surf would have postponed 3x, moved the tournament, and frantically promoted that it's still happening even as multiple municipalities pull the rug out? That is to say, if Surf didn't need the revenue, would the tournament still happen? My opinion is no.


----------



## notintheface

MSK357 said:


> Its not Onsie-twosies and full games at parks to include outdoor turf fields count for something. Maybe you haven't been invited to those but they are happening and happening every weekend for the past couple months.


I'm very aware that they are happening but you're speaking as if all of Coast, SCDSL, and the letter leagues have all switched to Fight Club soccer when the reality is almost completely the opposite. Get out of your bubble.


----------



## ITFC Blues

Apparently under US Soccer's rules any club that violates a local or state mandate is not covered by US Soccer insurance.  If Surf accepts any team from California they are likely at risk as their US Soccer insurance won't cover the teams either.  This is the dilemma clubs have when deciding whether or not to attend.  Newsom said the travel restrictions are a mandate the other day.  Using US Soccer's guidance from their website they are saying that if you can't play games in your own local area, you can't play games in Arizona.  At the same time, US Soccer seems to be encouraging teams to play ECNL and GA games out of state.  

*Q: Is US Club Soccer able to provide a definitive answer as to whether a specific activity (ex: training, games, participation in a tournament in a different state or municipality, etc.) is, or is not, compliant with the applicable local and state public health authorities?*


No. Primarily, it is the role and expertise of local and state public health authorities to make this determination. Also, as a national organization, it's not possible for US Club Soccer to be knowledgeable of, or be able to monitor, the various and changing requirements of the thousands of public health authorities throughout the country. For these reasons, we recommend that member organizations seek answers directly from the applicable public health authorities (at the local and state level), and/or consult with legal counsel licensed in the member organization’s jurisdiction.


*Q: For an activity that takes place in a different municipality or state than the member/member organization resides or is based, which local and state public health requirements and orders are applicable?*


Members/member organizations are responsible to ensure they understand and comply with the requirements and orders of local and state public health authorities applicable to their activities. *This means that a member/member organization must comply with the rules and orders of the locality(ies) and state(s): (1) in which the member/member organization resides/is based; (2) where the activity is held; and (3) through which the member may travel while the member is in that locality or state.*


----------



## EOTL

notintheface said:


> Aside from just trying to shit on someone who literally does not care about you, I don't understand why you would even make this post. Surf has been very very good for us in the past and has been a staple of our tournament play along with Vegas Cup, the yearly trip to Orlando, etc. We also realistically understand that as of last March, the year 2020 was going to be shot. Please stop trying to deny reality.


You know exactly why he sent this post.

He did this because he has nothing legitimate to say in response to your prior thoughtful comments. He did it because he mistakenly assumes that - like him - everyone else’s self esteem similarly depends on how well their child can play soccer, and he thinks he can get under your skin by insinuating that your daughter isn’t very good at it. He knows it hurts him to think that his daughter is crap at soccer (or maybe just mediocre), so he thinks that accusing others of the same about their kid will cause similar pain. 

He also did it to deflect from his earlier statements that only 12, then 100, then no way more than 12,000, then never more than 100,000, people will die from Covid. And that everyone is really dying from comorbidities like heartburn, since his earlier estimate that no more than 100 people would ultimately die from this would turn out to be a bit of an understatement.

It’s sad to see him put so much emotional capital into his child’s ability and to play soccer.  It’s hard enough for people like him to cope with the more typical end of the line for their child in the sport. But watching him wallow in denial and self-pity at this early stage due to the reality of covid and its impact on youth sports is rather sad to watch. As hard a time as he’s having with a soccer tournament moving a couple months, imagine how hard it will be for him when it is actually over. I’d almost feel bad for him if he weren’t supporting behavior that gets people killed.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> I'm very aware that they are happening but you're speaking as if all of Coast, SCDSL, and the letter leagues have all switched to Fight Club soccer when the reality is almost completely the opposite. Get out of your bubble.


No, im saying the "top teams"  and top players have never stopped playing. You must be the others.


----------



## happy9

MSK357 said:


> Youngers are not a reach. Only ssc.


There ya go, should work out then if they were only scheduled for SSC the entire weekend.


----------



## soccermom74

whatithink said:


> Where do you get your information? They still have out of state teams listed.
> 
> Event Information (gotsport.com)


From RSL's weekly update.  They have not updated tournament information yet.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

crush said:


> So if you want to ball in SC, you will need a vaccine, right?  Mask vs Vaccine, ya right.  OC had over 2,000+ positives.


Considering that non-socially distanced training was never approved in the fall, they may not allow contact sports in SC county until cases get down to 1/100,000 or children are vaccinated.


----------



## Eagle33

a beautiful mind said:


> thanks for the straight to the point answer. to the best of your knowledge does this sentiment apply to Surf cup youngers and olders? we are a 2010 U11 squad


as you U11 team you should not be anywhere near Surf Cup.


----------



## crush

notintheface said:


> Look at it this way-- take the money out of the equation. Do you believe Surf would have postponed 3x, moved the tournament, and frantically promoted that it's still happening even as multiple municipalities pull the rug out? That is to say, if Surf didn't need the revenue, would the tournament still happen? My opinion is no.


It's called a win win, MOO! The socal girls need some real competitive games, not this foolish 6 x 6 touch futbul nonsense.  Surf is providing a service that is in high demand.  If you build it, they will come.  No kids or parents have died from soccer games.  Let the kiddos ball if they want too.  Air bee and bee and then drop off.  Come back to watch goat n stay away from me and my wife.  That is old school.  What I hope happens is that we can all take off our fake masks and have one hell of a party to celebrate the new ____________&________  _________.   If you could only see what I see Face.  I mean that and I want you to see what I see.  It's so Beautiful and my mind is open to things you need to see for yourself.


----------



## a beautiful mind

Eagle33 said:


> as you U11 team you should not be anywhere near Surf Cup.


ok, I'll bite...why should 10 year olds stay away?


----------



## Lavey29

MSK357 said:


> No, im saying the "top teams"  and top players have never stopped playing. You must be the others.


Even if that meant hard training on your own with dad coach. We had the school field and goal to ourselves almost everyday we went out.


----------



## a beautiful mind

a beautiful mind said:


> Its me again asking another favor. concerning Surf cup youngers tourney (dec 27th-29th). and im not asking on a club level just team by team. as far as 2010s go.
> please DM me if you know for a fact that your team is either in or out...definitely. using Surf cup officials ruling and not the state of California's.
> just your teams name with a yes or no. Texas teams wants to travel but we need to know if it will be worth it.
> thanks in advance!


*BUMP!*


----------



## EOTL

crush said:


> It's called a win win, MOO! The socal girls need some real competitive games, not this foolish 6 x 6 touch futbul nonsense.  Surf is providing a service that is in high demand.  If you build it, they will come.  No kids or parents have died from soccer games.  Let the kiddos ball if they want too.  Air bee and bee and then drop off.  Come back to watch goat n stay away from me and my wife.  That is old school.  What I hope happens is that we can all take off our fake masks and have one hell of a party to celebrate the new ____________&________  _________.   If you could only see what I see Face.  I mean that and I want you to see what I see.  It's so Beautiful and my mind is open to things you need to see for yourself.


IKR.  If they can’t get some real games in before April, how else can we keep then from getting decapitated by their fathers?


----------



## lafalafa

MSK357 said:


> No, im saying the "top teams"  and top players have never stopped playing. You must be the others.


LAFC, Galaxy, and other youth have not been playing or scrimmaging.  Distance practice & drills 6' apart is all there doing.

There are many teams and clubs that still don't have places or regular access to practice facilities in LA county.

Some people with money to spend on out of state play or out of county travel have managed to do more things.  The rest can still train individually or with small groups but we know several so called top players or teams not playing or doing much beyond conditioning as a group.


----------



## MSK357

lafalafa said:


> LAFC, Galaxy, and other youth have not been playing or scrimmaging.  Distance practice & drills 6' apart is all there doing.
> 
> There are many teams and clubs that still don't have places or regular access to practice facilities in LA county.
> 
> Some people with money to spend on out of state play or out of county travel have managed to do mire things.  The rest can still train individually or with small groups but we know several so called top players or teams not playing or do much beyond conditioning as a group.


Are you sure about those clubs not scrimmaging locally in secret?


----------



## crush

a beautiful mind said:


> ok, I'll bite...why should 10 year olds stay away?


I will answer only for me and my baby girl.  10, 11 and 12 year old age was by far the funnest and winningest for her and me too.  She won back to back to back Cups and then went runner up and runner up for 5 straight finals.  A true threepeat for girls soccer in winning and then 5 in a row is also impressive for Surf Cup standards.  Who do you know with that resume?  Morgan?  Solo?  Pugh?  Smith?  Come on now, lets get the games going.  BTW, Its so much fun to be competitive with everyone and not care if you win or lose, just as long as you did your very very best and no one is cheating


----------



## a beautiful mind

a beautiful mind said:


> Soccer parent from Texas here! first time caller, long time listener. can someone bottom line this for me? just wanna know if you are on a top 2010 team and if you still plan on going to Surf cup? also are you guys in Cali allowed to cross state lines to play? my team is on the fence about going and the dealbreaker for us is if the top Cali teams pull out. thanks in advance


*BUMP!*


----------



## notintheface

MSK357 said:


> No, im saying the "top teams"  and top players have never stopped playing. You must be the others.


You are wrong. I don't know how to say that any more clearly.


----------



## watfly

I'm beginning to reach the conclusion that we're all just arguing about where to draw the line in the sand in regards to compliance with Covid restrictions.  No one is following the letter of the law and its seems we're arguing over which breaches are acceptable, which all depends on your level of risk acceptance.  None of us have any high ground to stand on.


----------



## lafalafa

MSK357 said:


> Are you sure about those clubs not scrimmaging locally in secret?


Yes I'm sure, we had several players inquiry with our club as recently as last week about playing since they haven't been doing anything but conditioning.  LAFC boys has a zero tolerance policy. The train via zoom or get together for conditioning but that's it.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> You are wrong. I don't know how to say that any more clearly.


agree to disagree.  but the top clubs in the younger age groups have all gone to az mulitiple times.  why would they stop now? i know of a couple that are for sure going as long as the tournament is on.   I dont know how to say that more clearly.  if your speaking on behalf of olders, i dont know, but thats not what the guy was asking about.


----------



## MSK357

lafalafa said:


> LAFC, Galaxy, and other youth have not been playing or scrimmaging.  Distance practice & drills 6' apart is all there doing.
> 
> There are many teams and clubs that still don't have places or regular access to practice facilities in LA county.
> 
> Some people with money to spend on out of state play or out of county travel have managed to do more things.  The rest can still train individually or with small groups but we know several so called top players or teams not playing or doing much beyond conditioning as a group.


Galaxy? are we still talking youth soccer?


----------



## Eagle33

lafalafa said:


> Yes I'm sure, we had several players inquiry with our club as recently as last week about playing since they haven't been doing anything but conditioning.  LAFC boys has a zero tolerance policy. The train via zoom or get together for conditioning but that's it.


Can you explain this policy please? Every kid should be at training if we are training or else?


----------



## notintheface

I want you to very carefully read your own words.



MSK357 said:


> but the top clubs in the younger age groups have all gone to az mulitiple times.





			
				MSK357 said:
			
		

> i know of a couple that are for sure going


Please understand that the Ulittle universe does not start and end with Blues and Pats. The number of teams who have actually made the drive is comparatively very very small. This is why I'm saying to get outside of your bubble.

There are so many ridiculously good clubs out there who are only doing fitness and distanced shape work and please please please stop saying "oh well all the top teams are still playing" because there are _state cup championship winners at all levels that have been hamstrung this year_. We are about to see a massive upheaval in the overall landscape that I don't think anyone really sees coming. To say "well our club is still getting in scrimmages at Great Park so all the top clubs must be" is completely disconnected from reality.


----------



## futboldad1

MSK357 said:


> No, im saying the "top teams"  and top players have never stopped playing. You must be the others.


Real have not really been playing.....2 ECNL league games plus either the showcase or one tournament.... that's it..... I think our club qualifies as having "top teams"..... at least a couple other so cal ECNL clubs have done the same...... I miss the regular schedules and hope by early next year we'll be back to normal......


----------



## MSK357

futboldad1 said:


> Real have not really been playing.....2 ECNL league games plus either the showcase or one tournament.... that's it..... I think our club qualifies as having "top teams"..... at least a couple other so cal ECNL clubs have done the same...... I miss the regular schedules and hope by early next year we'll be back to normal......


cant speak on olders, im with the youngers still and thats what the person was asking about.


----------



## PruritusAniFC

soccermom74 said:


> RSL did not cancel their December tournament.  They closed it to out of state teams.  The tournament will still be happening this weekend with AZ only teams.


@3leches    Seems like a lot of posters on here would love to see SurfCup cancelled--------------quit spreading your fake news-----------theres life outside of Phoenix and a lot fields to play on-------keep the faith----------SurfClub haters F-off!!  I will bring my B/C teams and lay down the hammer!! Coffee is kicking in>>>>>:?/


----------



## EOTL

PruritusAniFC said:


> @3leches    Seems like a lot of posters on here would love to see SurfCup cancelled--------------quit spreading your fake news-----------theres life outside of Phoenix and a lot fields to play on-------keep the faith----------SurfClub haters F-off!!  I will bring my B/C teams and lay down the hammer!! Coffee is kicking in>>>>>:?/


Such language. Tsk tsk.

It also seems like a lot of posters here would love to get that death rate over 6,000 a day.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> I want you to very carefully read your own words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please understand that the Ulittle universe does not start and end with Blues and Pats. The number of teams who have actually made the drive is comparatively very very small. This is why I'm saying to get outside of your bubble.
> 
> There are so many ridiculously good clubs out there who are only doing fitness and distanced shape work and please please please stop saying "oh well all the top teams are still playing" because there are _state cup championship winners at all levels that have been hamstrung this year_. We are about to see a massive upheaval in the overall landscape that I don't think anyone really sees coming. To say "well our club is still getting in scrimmages at Great Park so all the top clubs must be" is completely disconnected from reality.


you must think were scrimmaging the same clubs over and over again. not the case. but whatever.  agree to disagree. Its more than the blues and pats going to az and scrimmaging on weekends. the ones that are only doing fitness an distanced work, im sorry to say will have a gap they will have to get over.  Even the the strictest clubs have been starting to scrimmage on the down low, and i can tell you, the gap is showing.


----------



## lafalafa

Eagle33 said:


> Can you explain this policy please? Every kid should be at training if we are training or else?


Zero tolerance for playing games or scrimmages outside the cohort you are assigned to or with any other organization.  Private training or individual conditioning notwithstanding.



MSK357 said:


> Galaxy? are we still talking youth soccer?


Yes and the younger are included, this is what they were doing this past weekend, drills 6 feet a part and cones.


----------



## MSK357

lafalafa said:


> Zero tolerance for playing games or scrimmages outside the cohort you are assigned to or with any other organization.  Private training notwithstanding standing.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and the younger are included, this is what they were doing this past weekend, drills 6 feet a part and cones.


didnt galaxy youth soccer get absorbed or change names?


----------



## Eagle33

lafalafa said:


> Zero tolerance for playing games or scrimmages outside the cohort you are assigned to or with any other organization.  Private training notwithstanding.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and the younger are included, this is what they were doing this past weekend, drills 6 feet a part and cones.


So if my kid wants to guest play, will he/she be cut from the team?


----------



## MSK357

lafalafa said:


> Zero tolerance for playing games or scrimmages outside the cohort you are assigned to or with any other organization.  Private training or individual conditioning notwithstanding.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and the younger are included, this is what they were doing this past weekend, drills 6 feet a part and cones.


Im starting to feel you dont know what you are talking about.  Galaxy doesnt have a youth club anymore.  your credibility is shot.


----------



## GT45

notintheface said:


> Look at it this way-- take the money out of the equation. Do you believe Surf would have postponed 3x, moved the tournament, and frantically promoted that it's still happening even as multiple municipalities pull the rug out? That is to say, if Surf didn't need the revenue, would the tournament still happen? My opinion is no.


They are a business. So we cannot take the money out of the equation. 45 states are playing youth soccer. 45 states. Why can't our kids?


----------



## younothat

MSK357 said:


> Im starting to feel you dont know what you are talking about.  Galaxy doesnt have a youth club anymore.  your credibility is shot.


LA Galaxy NEXT youth academy is still going on and the have several teams;  U15, U17 plus the distance learning school model

Maybe educate yourself before talking about credibility.


----------



## MSK357

younothat said:


> LA Galaxy NEXT youth academy is still going on and the have several teams;  U15, U17 plus the distance learning school model
> 
> Maybe educate yourself before talking about credibility.


I realized thats what he meant after I posted, but we were talking about 2010 age group. La Galaxy NEXT doesnt start that young correct? thats if thats what he meant.


----------



## notintheface

MSK357 said:


> im sorry to say will have a gap they will have to get over.  Even the the strictest clubs have been starting to scrimmage on the down low, and i can tell you, the gap is showing.


Look, you're talking about a bunch of 10 year olds so please understand if you aren't taken super seriously. There isn't going to be any "gap" for those kids two years from now. As I have maintained, match sharpness isn't going to come down to 3 games at the end of the year and if you think they are then wow, your coach has really twisted your brain.


----------



## lafalafa

MSK357 said:


> Im starting to feel you dont know what you are talking about.  Galaxy doesnt have a youth club anymore.  your credibility is shot.


Already knew you didn't know what your referencing but keep up the good work.  LA Galaxy youth academy in case your wondering and new 05' players where announced last week as joining.   

Affiliated Galaxy clubs where not renewed last term but that has zero to do with Galaxy academy.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> Look, you're talking about a bunch of 10 year olds so please understand if you aren't taken super seriously. There isn't going to be any "gap" for those kids two years from now. As I have maintained, match sharpness isn't going to come down to 3 games at the end of the year and if you think they are then wow, your coach has really twisted your brain.


a year of not playing is huge. and if you are abiding by gavin newsoms orders 100% then yes, the gap matters.  especially since it looks like hes going to keep his restrictions for a couple more months.


----------



## EOTL

GT45 said:


> They are a business. So we cannot take the money out of the equation. 45 states are playing youth soccer. 45 states. Why can't our kids?


Because saving lives is a good idea. 

I am so proud of CA having easily the lowest mortality rate of any state with any significant population density, and despite having so many knuckle dragging youth soccer parents who would happily kill as many people as it takes to avoid postponing a U11 soccer tournament for a couple months.


----------



## MSK357

lafalafa said:


> Already knew you didn't know what your referencing but keep up the good work.  LA Galaxy youth academy in case your wondering and new 05' players where announced last week as joining.
> 
> Affiliated Galaxy clubs where not renewed last term but that has zero to do with Galaxy academy.


and we were talking about 2010 age group. Does galaxy academy start that young? honest question.


----------



## EOTL

MSK357 said:


> I realized thats what he meant after I posted, but we were talking about 2010 age group. La Galaxy NEXT doesnt start that young correct? thats if thats what he meant.


You’ll do anything to avoid admitting you are wrong, even if it means claiming 299,900 Covid deaths were actually due to heartburn.


----------



## MSK357

EOTL said:


> You’ll do anything to avoid admitting you are wrong, even if it means claiming 299,900 Covid deaths were actually due to heartburn.


Scroll up genius, the guy was asking about the 2010 age group. Thats what happens when you jump halfway into a conversation. you look dumb like EOTL the pedo that hates soccer but lurks in youth soccer forums.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

crush said:


> I love the fighting spirit and "the show must go on" mindset.  I want my goat to play in this tournament now.  The fire is in my belly.  The fact that it will take a miracle and some hard core soccer players and their parents to make the trip, will make this a must play tournament.  All eyes will be on AZ Jan 1-4th.  I'm stoked and now ready to make a new wager with @Eagle33.  Quadruple or nothing bro?  Basically if I lose again, I will buy you a keg of the beer of your choice or a barrel of Jack if you like that better and have it delivered for free.  If the Cup is played on those dates, my debt is free and clear?  I will talk to my dd and see if I can;t find a way to "persuade" her to put on her cleats.  Surf Cup was and is bigger then ecnl showcase, MOO, so they might have more LS viewership then this last showcase.


Let's grab a beer!


----------



## Soccermompeach

I just heard from a Slammers FC team that ALL Slammer's FC teams (Newport based) and pulling out of Surf Cup?


----------



## Lavey29

MSK357 said:


> agree to disagree.  but the top clubs in the younger age groups have all gone to az mulitiple times.  why would they stop now? i know of a couple that are for sure going as long as the tournament is on.   I dont know how to say that more clearly.  if your speaking on behalf of olders, i dont know, but thats not what the guy was asking about.



As far as the olders go, I can tell you that we were one of the last clubs to join the secret scrimmage party. All the big clubs that I follow were scrimmaging and even their practices had portions of full contact 1v1 2v2 etc...I know because my kid practiced with them.  I remember asking the coach why aren't we scrimmaging and was told that current china virus rules didn't allow for it. Well some weeks later, I guess the club learned that everyone else was already scrimmaging and that's when we finally got to play a match. So I'm sure you are accurate for the youngers too.


----------



## EOTL

MSK357 said:


> Scroll up genius, the guy was asking about the 2010 age group. Thats what happens when you jump halfway into a conversation. you look dumb like EOTL the pedo that hates soccer but lurks in youth soccer forums.


Actually, that’s what you made up to save face after the fact. Really bad heartburn epidemic this year eh?


----------



## MSK357

EOTL said:


> Actually, that’s what you made up to save face after the fact. Really bad heartburn epidemic this year eh?


wrong, i was talking about the youngers. look at the post above yours. i straight up said i dont know what the olders are doing. but go and and keep digging.


----------



## notintheface

MSK357 said:


> a year of not playing is huge. and if you are abiding by gavin newsoms orders 100% then yes, the gap matters.  especially since it looks like hes going to keep his restrictions for a couple more months.


You've already lost nearly a year of play, along with every other team. They're 10. The skills they should understand at 10 they will also be working on when they're 11 and 12 and 13 and so on. Please don't lose any sleep over your kid not getting in a game against a team that is just as rusty, it truly means nothing in the grander scope of their learning the game. 

This attitude of "I have to have my kid on the field as much as possible this year because they will revert into these horrible awful players if they don't" is simply untrue and you should question _why_ anyone would say that to you. This year is a year of treading water and any coach who tells you otherwise is flat out lying to you in order to keep your dollars rolling in. Much more important than individual matches, consistency is what will get and keep your kids game IQ high. This is why when in mid-June we saw that league play was exceedingly unlikely for the year, we basically called the year a wash and went on a plan to keep kids fit along with keeping up their individual skills because they are unlikely to keep their game IQ with no sustained summer tournaments and fall league play. 

This is one of the things you will learn for yourself as your kid gets older-- game IQ is not this cumulative thing that a 10 year old will build up over time but a very fleeting muscle memory for kids as they develop. A kid who can win a take-on at 10 may or may not be able to win that same take-on against that same opponent at 11. That's fine. You don't need to spend the extra outlay driving out to Scottsdale, staying in a hotel, eating out, and then driving back, just for 3 games because they'll make or break your kid. They won't, trust me.


----------



## EOTL

MSK357 said:


> wrong, i was talking about the youngers. look at the post above yours. i straight up said i dont know what the olders are doing. but go and and keep digging.


I know what you were talking about. It was not what they were talking about.  I hear the vaccine is just Prilosec.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> You've already lost nearly a year of play, along with every other team. They're 10. The skills they should understand at 10 they will also be working on when they're 11 and 12 and 13 and so on. Please don't lose any sleep over your kid not getting in a game against a team that is just as rusty, it truly means nothing in the grander scope of their learning the game.
> 
> This attitude of "I have to have my kid on the field as much as possible this year because they will revert into these horrible awful players if they don't" is simply untrue and you should question _why_ anyone would say that to you. This year is a year of treading water and any coach who tells you otherwise is flat out lying to you in order to keep your dollars rolling in. Much more important than individual matches, consistency is what will get and keep your kids game IQ high. This is why when in mid-June we saw that league play was exceedingly unlikely for the year, we basically called the year a wash and went on a plan to keep kids fit along with keeping up their individual skills because they are unlikely to keep their game IQ with no sustained summer tournaments and fall league play.
> 
> This is one of the things you will learn for yourself as your kid gets older-- game IQ is not this cumulative thing that a 10 year old will build up over time but a very fleeting muscle memory for kids as they develop. A kid who can win a take-on at 10 may or may not be able to win that same take-on against that same opponent at 11. That's fine. You don't need to spend the extra outlay driving out to Scottsdale, staying in a hotel, eating out, and then driving back, just for 3 games because they'll make or break your kid. They won't, trust me.


I dont think this virus is that bad for healthy young parents like myself or kids as young as mine. So i see no issue having them play with other kids and parents who feel the same way.  Its just a fact that if you dont play for a year, you will fall behind.  sure some kinds will catch up. some wont.  We arent disagreeing here.  we both agree there is a gap they have to overcome.  you just dont like the fact that i believe the risk is low for my age group and my kids age group and that i still want them to play.


----------



## MSK357

EOTL said:


> I know what you were talking about. It was not what they were talking about.  I hear the vaccine is just Prilosec.


let me know how the vaccine goes.


----------



## notintheface

MSK357 said:


> I dont think this virus is that bad for healthy young parents like myself or kids as young as mine. So i see no issue having them play with other kids and parents who feel the same way.  Its just a fact that if you dont play for a year, you will fall behind.


Here's a secret for you. If a Ulittle doesn't play a match in anger for six weeks, their game IQ drops. Six weeks. For clubs that have a one month break in late spring or in winter, those kids already come back rusty and it is a crash course in getting them back up to speed before tournaments hit. Please understand that a 10 year old who maintains their fitness but does not play a scrimmage for this year will not lose nearly as much as you (or your coach, I'm guessing) say. They lost that sharpness by early May. Any kind of "gap" that you feel would be gained by your kid as a result of playing games in early January, they will lose by mid February. That is how a Ulittle brain functions. Look-- your kid is not going to be Messi. Your kid is not going to be Morgan. If they were, you wouldn't be here saying that they need the games. Just don't worry about it. One half-baked tournament in the desert isn't going to get them a college opportunity eight years from now. When the USWNT gets interviewed in 2032 ahead of their third-place match against Australia, there aren't going to be heartwarming feelgood stories about how their left mid spent the pandemic driving all over the southwest just to get in a couple of games. What your coach has convinced you of is that "now is the time for us to get better while everyone else gets worse!!!" and that is a load of crap, and how will you feel when you get steamrollered by a team that effectively took the year off.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> Here's a secret for you. If a Ulittle doesn't play a match in anger for six weeks, their game IQ drops. Six weeks. For clubs that have a one month break in late spring or in winter, those kids already come back rusty and it is a crash course in getting them back up to speed before tournaments hit. Please understand that a 10 year old who maintains their fitness but does not play a scrimmage for this year will not lose nearly as much as you (or your coach, I'm guessing) say. They lost that sharpness by early May. Any kind of "gap" that you feel would be gained by your kid as a result of playing games in early January, they will lose by mid February. That is how a Ulittle brain functions. Look-- your kid is not going to be Messi. Your kid is not going to be Morgan. If they were, you wouldn't be here saying that they need the games. Just don't worry about it. One half-baked tournament in the desert isn't going to get them a college opportunity eight years from now. When the USWNT gets interviewed in 2032 ahead of their third-place match against Australia, there aren't going to be heartwarming feelgood stories about how their left mid spent the pandemic driving all over the southwest just to get in a couple of games. What your coach has convinced you of is that "now is the time for us to get better while everyone else gets worse!!!" and that is a load of crap, and how will you feel when you get steamrollered by a team that effectively took the year off.


Look man, you dont get it, my kids want to play. i dont think its as risky as you think it is.  Drills are great, but playing games are more fun for them.  Not only is it about getting better at soccer, but it helps them socially as they interact with other kids.  thats what sports do.  sure, they could do that other ways, but this is what they want to do, and i dont think its as risky as a grandpa going to a grocery store picking out fruit.  I just also happen to believe not playing games for a year is going cause some kids to regress. you admit theres a gap. i agree. you dont think the gap matters, i disagree. because when you compare a kid who drills 6 ft apart with cones for 12 months compared to a kid that scrimmages every weekend in addition to contact practices, im sorry but that gap is widening everyday whether you believe it or not.


----------



## crush

MSK357 said:


> Look man, you dont get it, my kids want to play. i dont think its as risky as you think it is.  Drills are great, but playing games are more fun for them.  Not only is it about getting better at soccer, but it helps them socially as they interact with other kids.  thats what sports do.  sure, they could do that other ways, but this is what they want to do, and i dont think its as risky as a grandpa going to a grocery store picking out fruit.  I just also happen to believe not playing games for a year is going cause some kids to regress. you admit theres a gap. i agree. you dont think the gap matters, i disagree. because when you compare a kid who drills 6 ft apart with cones for 12 months compared to a kid that scrimmages every weekend in addition to contact practices, im sorry but that gap is widening everyday whether you believe it or not.


It's all about competition and playing the game my soon to be 17 year old.  Some people never played the game and have no clue about sports and the court or the field.  Always in the classroom telling everyone how right they are and how wrong everyone else is.  Classic!!!


----------



## EOTL

notintheface said:


> You've already lost nearly a year of play, along with every other team. They're 10. The skills they should understand at 10 they will also be working on when they're 11 and 12 and 13 and so on. Please don't lose any sleep over your kid not getting in a game against a team that is just as rusty, it truly means nothing in the grander scope of their learning the game.
> 
> This attitude of "I have to have my kid on the field as much as possible this year because they will revert into these horrible awful players if they don't" is simply untrue and you should question _why_ anyone would say that to you. This year is a year of treading water and any coach who tells you otherwise is flat out lying to you in order to keep your dollars rolling in. Much more important than individual matches, consistency is what will get and keep your kids game IQ high. This is why when in mid-June we saw that league play was exceedingly unlikely for the year, we basically called the year a wash and went on a plan to keep kids fit along with keeping up their individual skills because they are unlikely to keep their game IQ with no sustained summer tournaments and fall league play.
> 
> This is one of the things you will learn for yourself as your kid gets older-- game IQ is not this cumulative thing that a 10 year old will build up over time but a very fleeting muscle memory for kids as they develop. A kid who can win a take-on at 10 may or may not be able to win that same take-on against that same opponent at 11. That's fine. You don't need to spend the extra outlay driving out to Scottsdale, staying in a hotel, eating out, and then driving back, just for 3 games because they'll make or break your kid. They won't, trust me.


You’ve clearly been through this and seen plenty of parents with pre-teen fringe “elite” soccer daughters. 

The panicky and desperate parents like @MSK357 are pretty much all the same. Neither they nor their kid were ever elite athletically. Because Daddy doesn’t understand yet what elite athletics really is, he is still fixated on the delusion that Stanford or UCLA is a possibility despite his daughter’s middling athleticism if only she works hard enough. He fears soccer greatness for his daughter is slipping further and further away every day she can’t play due to Covid, because he thinks wrongly that developing high soccer IQ will give his kid the advantage she needs to overcome the athleticism deficit. He hasn’t yet seen what happens post puberty when the likes of a Macario or Reilyn Turner steamrolls his daughter with the high soccer IQ to the point he finally must accept that they’re looking at D3 if anything, and maybe should have put more attention into stem classes.

But for now, the slow sinking feeling of time lost due to Covid is so consuming that he’s on social media proposing that people agree to bizarre behavior that will actually get people killed. Such is the level of his desperation.


----------



## MSK357

EOTL said:


> You’ve clearly been through this and seen plenty of parents with pre-teen fringe “elite” soccer daughters.
> 
> The panicky and desperate parents like @MSK357 are pretty much all the same. Neither they nor their kid were ever elite athletically. Because Daddy doesn’t understand yet what elite athletics really is, he is still fixated on the delusion that Stanford or UCLA is a possibility despite his daughter’s middling athleticism if only she works hard enough. He fears soccer greatness for his daughter is slipping further and further away every day she can’t play due to Covid, because he thinks wrongly that developing high soccer IQ will give his kid the advantage she needs to overcome the athleticism deficit. He hasn’t yet seen what happens post puberty when the likes of a Macario or Reilyn Turner steamrolls his daughter with the high soccer IQ to the point he finally must accept that they’re looking at D3 if anything, and maybe should have put more attention into stem classes.
> 
> But for now, the slow sinking feeling of time lost due to Covid is so consuming that he’s on social media proposing that people agree to bizarre behavior that will actually get people killed. Such is the level of his desperation.


nope, if anyone is panicky its people buying toilet paper.  im just letting my kids play soccer. stop lurking in youth soccer forums pedo. this is for parents with kids that play soccer.


----------



## EOTL

MSK357 said:


> nope, if anyone is panicky its people buying toilet paper.  im just letting my kids play soccer. stop lurking in youth soccer forums pedo. this is for parents with kids that play soccer.


That’s right. I keep forgetting I’m just a homeless guy killing time at a public library in Washington state. I obviously missed the CalSouth memo explaining how important it is for 10 year old girls and their families to go to AZ during the worst part of a pandemic that is killing 3000 people a day.  If you wait until April, it’s too late, your daughter will never gain the immense soccer knowledge lost during those formative months. There will be some girl from North Dakota whose parents died for the cause so their daughter could gain that valuable soccer IQ that Gavin Newsom forced yours to miss, and who took your dd’s spot at UCLA and then the WNT. True American heroes. And Gavin probably laughed about what he did to your kid during dinner at the French Laundry.


----------



## notintheface

MSK357 said:


> Look man, you dont get it, my kids want to play. i dont think its as risky as you think it is.  Drills are great, but playing games are more fun for them.  Not only is it about getting better at soccer, but it helps them socially as they interact with other kids.  thats what sports do.  sure, they could do that other ways, but this is what they want to do, and i dont think its as risky as a grandpa going to a grocery store picking out fruit.  I just also happen to believe not playing games for a year is going cause some kids to regress. you admit theres a gap. i agree. you dont think the gap matters, i disagree. because when you compare a kid who drills 6 ft apart with cones for 12 months compared to a kid that scrimmages every weekend in addition to contact practices, im sorry but that gap is widening everyday whether you believe it or not.


I get it. Your kids want to play. Everyones kids want to play, that's not what I am saying. What I am saying is that your belief that Surf Cup is going to have any long-term consequences for your kid is misguided. It will not.

You're saying "not playing games for a year is going (to) cause some kids to regress". No-- not playing games for six weeks definitely causes littles to regress. I am saying that everybody is in the same boat for 2020. Look at the sheer number of clubs here -- http://scdslsoccer.com/club-directory and https://www.coastsoccer.com/page/show/1327040-clubs -- and then tell me that your team will definitively be able to beat most of those teams just because you got three games in January. At some point your dear daughter or son are going to go up against a team that sat out for 2020 and still blows your team out. Please don't sweat that and push your kid ever harder.

You can tell me all you want about the 11 year old who you are pushing ever harder into full contact scrimmages and a match every couple of months and about this mythical gap. I will tell you about all kinds of stories of a bunch of 16 year old kids who _started playing_ in 8th grade and can flatten just about anyone out there. I totally get it, you're trying to justify the multiple thousands of dollars that you're paying out in the middle of a pandemic. Justify it by saying that your kid has an activity that they enjoy. That's great! Worth every penny! Don't justify it by saying that your kid is magically going to become the next Bruno Fernandes or Jill Scott because they got half a dozen more games than their peers when they were 11 years old.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> I get it. Your kids want to play. Everyones kids want to play, that's not what I am saying. What I am saying is that your belief that Surf Cup is going to have any long-term consequences for your kid is misguided. It will not.
> 
> You're saying "not playing games for a year is going (to) cause some kids to regress". No-- not playing games for six weeks definitely causes littles to regress. I am saying that everybody is in the same boat for 2020. Look at the sheer number of clubs here -- http://scdslsoccer.com/club-directory and https://www.coastsoccer.com/page/show/1327040-clubs -- and then tell me that your team will definitively be able to beat most of those teams just because you got three games in January. At some point your dear daughter or son are going to go up against a team that sat out for 2020 and still blows your team out. Please don't sweat that and push your kid ever harder.
> 
> You can tell me all you want about the 11 year old who you are pushing ever harder into full contact scrimmages and a match every couple of months and about this mythical gap. I will tell you about all kinds of stories of a bunch of 16 year old kids who _started playing_ in 8th grade and can flatten just about anyone out there. I totally get it, you're trying to justify the multiple thousands of dollars that you're paying out in the middle of a pandemic. Justify it by saying that your kid has an activity that they enjoy. That's great! Worth every penny! Don't justify it by saying that your kid is magically going to become the next Bruno Fernandes or Jill Scott because they got half a dozen more games than their peers when they were 11 years old.


Are you living in a dream world? I dont think surf cup will be anything but my kid having fun at a tournament. Nothing else. I did say playing games more often then those that don't play games will make them better players. You even admitted that. Who said anything about bruno Fernandes and Jill Scott? Lol. Now I know you're trolling. You're looking way too into this. My kids like to play soccer games. I let them play because science says they are not likely to die from the virus like grandpa and grandma. Playing more often and contact practices will make them better players. You are a fool if you think skipping that for a year doesn't regress them as players. Thats it. Period. Sure some kids will catch up. But thats my point. If there wasn't a gap, they wouldn't need to catch up. Congratulations, you played yourself.


----------



## watfly

notintheface said:


> You've already lost nearly a year of play, along with every other team. They're 10. The skills they should understand at 10 they will also be working on when they're 11 and 12 and 13 and so on. Please don't lose any sleep over your kid not getting in a game against a team that is just as rusty, it truly means nothing in the grander scope of their learning the game.
> 
> This attitude of "I have to have my kid on the field as much as possible this year because they will revert into these horrible awful players if they don't" is simply untrue and you should question _why_ anyone would say that to you. This year is a year of treading water and any coach who tells you otherwise is flat out lying to you in order to keep your dollars rolling in. Much more important than individual matches, consistency is what will get and keep your kids game IQ high. This is why when in mid-June we saw that league play was exceedingly unlikely for the year, we basically called the year a wash and went on a plan to keep kids fit along with keeping up their individual skills because they are unlikely to keep their game IQ with no sustained summer tournaments and fall league play.
> 
> This is one of the things you will learn for yourself as your kid gets older-- game IQ is not this cumulative thing that a 10 year old will build up over time but a very fleeting muscle memory for kids as they develop. A kid who can win a take-on at 10 may or may not be able to win that same take-on against that same opponent at 11. That's fine. You don't need to spend the extra outlay driving out to Scottsdale, staying in a hotel, eating out, and then driving back, just for 3 games because they'll make or break your kid. They won't, trust me.


I happen to agree with this sentiment.  There is certainly FOMO for some people, but others just have kids that want to play.  So whatever the reason that's the parents choice and if they want to drive to AZ to play, more power to them.  Some parents are also worried about other teams getting a head start here in CA because some clubs are stretching or ignoring the rules.  Any advantage those teams have will be short lived assuming they even play a game this season.

BTW, I don't know if this has been mentioned but Albion's Development Showcase has been scheduled for January 9-10 in Bullhead City, AZ


----------



## Lavey29

MSK357 said:


> Are you living in a dream world? I dont think surf cup will be anything but my kid having fun at a tournament. Nothing else. I did say playing games more often then those that don't play games will make them better players. You even admitted that. Who said anything about bruno Fernandes and Jill Scott? Lol. Now I know you're trolling. You're looking way too into this. My kids like to play soccer games. I let them play because science says they are not likely to die from the virus like grandpa and grandma. Playing more often and contact practices will make them better players. You are a fool if you think skipping that for a year doesn't regress them as players. Thats it. Period. Sure some kids will catch up. But thats my point. If there wasn't a gap, they wouldn't need to catch up. Congratulations, you played yourself.


I know you realize you are arguing with mindless sheep here? You are absolutely right to exercise your constitutional right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  The china virus science supports your assertion that your age group is extremely low risk. 4% of the population tested positive and 99.6% survival rate nationally. If playing soccer makes you and your family happy, go for it and let the sheep scurry around inside their isolation bubbles. We all know you and your family and the rest of your team will use proper safety recommendations at the tournament as will others that attend.  The sheep are just angry because they live in fear and are afraid to venture out of their bubble. Good luck at the tournament.  We will be there also enjoying watching some great soccer.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

Soccer parents just need to take a 3 week rest from the sport and let’s hope we can get these out of state tournaments back in January.  As long as the kids focus on fitness and footwork drills, they will get back on track in a few weeks once they start playing again.


----------



## EOTL

Lavey29 said:


> I know you realize you are arguing with mindless sheep here? You are absolutely right to exercise your constitutional right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  The china virus science supports your assertion that your age group is extremely low risk. 4% of the population tested positive and 99.6% survival rate nationally. If playing soccer makes you and your family happy, go for it and let the sheep scurry around inside their isolation bubbles. We all know you and your family and the rest of your team will use proper safety recommendations at the tournament as will others that attend.  The sheep are just angry because they live in fear and are afraid to venture out of their bubble. Good luck at the tournament.  We will be there also enjoying watching some great soccer.


Racist.


----------



## Jose has returned

EOTL said:


> Racist.
> 
> You need new material


----------



## MSK357

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Soccer parents just need to take a 3 week rest from the sport and let’s hope we can get these out of state tournaments back in January.  As long as the kids focus on fitness and footwork drills, they will get back on track in a few weeks once they start playing again.


I actually do want to take a break from tournaments. I dont mind having my kids play locally. There's better competition here anyway. My kids are the ones that want to go. But now feel like going out of spite just to piss off the snowflakes lol. So I guess I'll be signing up for every tournament here on out. My wallet will hate me but my kids will love it. Pissing off EOTL and notintheface is just a bonus. Lol.


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> Such language. Tsk tsk.
> 
> It also seems like a lot of posters here would love to get that death rate over 6,000 a day.


If you could only find some evidence to support that youth soccer has contributed to the spread any worse than going to the grocery store anywhere in the US or the world.  The fact you can’t must really frustrate you.


----------



## EOTL

MSK357 said:


> Are you living in a dream world? I dont think surf cup will be anything but my kid having fun at a tournament. Nothing else. I did say playing games more often then those that don't play games will make them better players. You even admitted that. Who said anything about bruno Fernandes and Jill Scott? Lol. Now I know you're trolling. You're looking way too into this. My kids like to play soccer games. I let them play because science says they are not likely to die from the virus like grandpa and grandma. Playing more often and contact practices will make them better players. You are a fool if you think skipping that for a year doesn't regress them as players. Thats it. Period. Sure some kids will catch up. But thats my point. If there wasn't a gap, they wouldn't need to catch up. Congratulations, you played yourself.


The same guy who’s got his kid participating in covert soccer practices, driving his ten year old 5-7 hours each way to AZ to play soccer games during the worst part of the worst pandemic in more than 100 years, and whining about how not being able to play games is hurting his 10 year old’s soccer IQ is now claiming he’s taking her to AZ just for the sheer joy of the sport.

Sure.


----------



## Lavey29

EOTL said:


> Racist.


Are you a black sheep?


----------



## EOTL

Kicker4Life said:


> If you could only find some evidence to support that youth soccer has contributed to the spread any worse than going to the grocery store anywhere in the US or the world.  The fact you can’t must really frustrate you.


IKR. Thank god for all the teleporters all those U11s are using to get to the fields and then straight home.


----------



## EOTL

Lavey29 said:


> Are you a black sheep?


Racist


----------



## Lavey29

EOTL said:


> Racist


I guess I need some sheep sensitivity training huh?


----------



## MSK357

EOTL said:


> The same guy who’s got his kid participating in covert soccer practices, driving his ten year old 5-7 hours each way to AZ to play soccer games during the worst part of the worst pandemic in more than 100 years, and whining about how not being able to play games is hurting his 10 year old’s soccer IQ is now claiming he’s taking her to AZ just for the sheer joy of the sport.
> 
> Sure.


Yup, I'd do anything to make my kid happy. Now stop talking about my kid pedo. As matter of fact, stay away from all kids not just the ones playing soccer.


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> IKR. Thank god for all the teleporters all those U11s are using to get to the fields and then straight home.


Don’t worry....all we got is time....I’ll wait.


----------



## notintheface

MSK357 said:


> I actually do want to take a break from tournaments. I dont mind having my kids play locally. There's better competition here anyway. My kids are the ones that want to go. But now feel like going out of spite just to piss off the snowflakes lol. So I guess I'll be signing up for every tournament here on out. My wallet will hate me but my kids will love it. Pissing off EOTL and notintheface is just a bonus. Lol.


You're projecting. I literally do not care one iota about you or your kid. You are providing a shining example to all of the lurkers here -- and there are a ton of them, btw -- about what a parent brainwashed by their coach acts and sounds like. That's the funny bit, that you are getting so riled up about the reality of Socal's scene right now, but you're so unwilling to just take a step back, because god forbid that people who have seen the overzealous Ulittle parent time and time and time again be correct about something on an internet forum.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> You're projecting. I literally do not care one iota about you or your kid. You are providing a shining example to all of the lurkers here -- and there are a ton of them, btw -- about what a parent brainwashed by their coach acts and sounds like. That's the funny bit, that you are getting so riled up about the reality of Socal's scene right now, but you're so unwilling to just take a step back, because god forbid that people who have seen the overzealous Ulittle parent time and time and time again be correct about something on an internet forum.


You couldn't be more wrong. Coaches don't even show up to half the scrimmages i go to. Like I said. My kid wants to play games, even if its just pick up games with other girls not afraid to train and play. You must have a sad life that you think its about anything more than letting my kid do what they love. You seem stuck on the fact that I said kids that play scrimmages every weekend and have contact practices are going to be far ahead of others. Seems like you're the one panicking that I might be right and you want other kids to stop so that its an even playing field when snowflakes like you can crawl out from under your rock. Troll. Nothing you say will stop me and more people are out playing. I'm running out of field space with all the teams coming out now. I bet that makes you cry at night lol.


----------



## Soccer Cat

We were told the Coachella tournament this weekend is being cancelled.  Not a problem with having the tourney there, but all of the hotels cancelling rooms for non-essential stays.  Guess the sheriff coming out and saying he wouldn’t enforce the new order wasn’t enough, some hotels are evaluating closing down completely for a couple of weeks.

Sad times here in CA and for our athletes...


----------



## socalkdg

You don’t need a room to play in Coachella.  Sure it is being cancelled?  Heard 28/29th were cancelled.  Although the buzz is this weekend cancelled. Hmm


----------



## nextgenathletics

Soccer Cat said:


> We were told the Coachella tournament this weekend is being cancelled.  Not a problem with having the tourney there, but all of the hotels cancelling rooms for non-essential stays.  Guess the sheriff coming out and saying he wouldn’t enforce the new order wasn’t enough, some hotels are evaluating closing down completely for a couple of weeks.
> 
> Sad times here in CA and for our athletes...


Is Indio tournament for sure being cancelled? Where did you hear that?


----------



## SC310

nextgenathletics said:


> Is Indio tournament for sure being cancelled? Where did you hear that?


Cancelled - postponed til January.


----------



## nextgenathletics

SC310 said:


> Cancelled - postponed til January.


Welp, yep. Just got the notification.


----------



## soccer4us




----------



## oh canada

Doesn't matter to Surf:









						Arizona doctors express concern over dwindling number of hospital beds
					

Some doctors around the state are sounding the alarm on the number of available hospital beds - or lack thereof - as coronavirus cases surge.




					www.abc15.com


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

oh canada said:


> Doesn't matter to Surf:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arizona doctors express concern over dwindling number of hospital beds
> 
> 
> Some doctors around the state are sounding the alarm on the number of available hospital beds - or lack thereof - as coronavirus cases surge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.abc15.com


Nevada is pretty bad as well. This covid outbreak is definitely real. 

This is coming from a dad that had no problem having his kids play futsal games all summer and fall. I’m now just going to quarantine my family for 1 month.   I need a break anyways to work on my golf game. Lol.  









						Nevada hospital treats patients in parking garage amid coronavirus surge
					

"Nobody who has gone into medicine ever thought they would be providing care in a parking garage," said Jacob Keeperman, an intensive care unit doctor at Renown Health.




					www.google.com


----------



## crush

notintheface said:


> *You're projecting.* I literally do not care one iota about you or your kid. You are providing a shining example to all of the* lurkers here* -- and there are *a ton of them, btw *-- about what a parent brainwashed by their coach acts and sounds like. That's the funny bit, that* you are getting so riled up* about the reality of Socal's scene right now, but you're so unwilling to just take a step back, because god forbid that people who have seen the overzealous Ulittle parent time and time and time again be correct about something on an internet forum.


Face, you are the one getting all riled up.  I do admit I can, at times, go on some rants.  You actually follow me, monitor my takes, research all my time stamps, PM me weird stuff and you seem all up tight.  I can say 100% you have posted way more then me over the last two weeks.  My kid is balling every week in the USL because she loves something.  Some girls sneak out and find love in other ways.  It's been going on for a long time.  Bahhhhhaaaaaaaaaahhhaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!


----------



## crush

oh canada said:


> Doesn't matter to Surf:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arizona doctors express concern over dwindling number of hospital beds
> 
> 
> Some doctors around the state are sounding the alarm on the number of available hospital beds - or lack thereof - as coronavirus cases surge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.abc15.com


Teacher, leave us kids alone............


----------



## crush

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Nevada is pretty bad as well. This covid outbreak is* definitely real.*
> 
> This is coming from a dad that had no problem having his kids play futsal games all summer and fall. I’m now just going to quarantine my family for 1 month.   I need a break anyways to work on my golf game. Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nevada hospital treats patients in parking garage amid coronavirus surge
> 
> 
> "Nobody who has gone into medicine ever thought they would be providing care in a parking garage," said Jacob Keeperman, an intensive care unit doctor at Renown Health.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


OC went down from 2100 to 1900 cases in one day and no new deaths......yay team!!!!!!  This is 100% for reals and just wait until all the dust settles.  Get ready for something so insane even you will admit you were wrong.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

crush said:


> OC went down from 2100 to 1900 cases in one day and no new deaths......yay team!!!!!!  This is 100% for reals and just wait until all the dust settles.  Get ready for something so insane even you will admit you were wrong.


I’ve been tracking those numbers daily all year until they got out of control a few weeks ago.I gave up.  

  Sunday and Monday numbers are always lower.  In Sept/oct  we were averaging 200 a day.   I think we will hit 2,500 to 3.000 in the next weeks.  
Hospitalizations were at 150 and now over 800.  

Over the past seven days, the county has reported an average of 1,469.9 new cases per day, a 86.7% increase from two weeks ago. Over that same period, there have been eight deaths per day.
The number of hospitalizations is growing. There are now 877 patients with a confirmed case, an increase from fourteen days ago.


----------



## crush

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I’ve been tracking those numbers daily all year until they got out of control a few weeks ago.I gave up.
> 
> Sunday and Monday numbers are always lower.  In Sept/oct  we were averaging 200 a day.   I think we will hit 2,500 to 3.000 in the next weeks.
> Hospitalizations were at 150 and now over 800.
> 
> Over the past seven days, the county has reported an average of 1,469.9 new cases per day, a 86.7% increase from two weeks ago. Over that same period, there have been eight deaths per day.
> The number of hospitalizations is growing. There are now 877 patients with a confirmed case, an increase from fourteen days ago.


I'm a full time tracker with a nose that sniffs BS for a living, ears that can hear through walls ((you know the saying, "if walls could speak?  Well, they do for me")) and eyes that can see through steel.  OC adds everything up in big piles of cases and deaths every other day.  Its crazy and I think scare tactics.  Big number of cases is scary for some.  Look up ICU and Hospitals last year at this time in OC.  I can say I heard many folks were so sick last year that many had to go to ER. This time last year was flu record.  Now we got the Rona and flu.  I think we all predicted this months ago so dont act like your smart.  So many teachers and lawyers on here need to not act so smart and like they know everything.  So many teachers think their the boss for the day.  Bossing kids around for a living and acting as the smartest adult in the room is not that impressive and needs to go away once and for all.  Teach with wisdom and fairness.  Now we know why some kids get good grades and some dont.  I had dad 4 and Oh Canada all my kid life and I made sure I got an F from them.  They love power, they really do.  It's ALL going to change and shoe will be on the other foot soon


----------



## texanincali

EOTL said:


> IKR.  If they can’t get some real games in before April, how else can we keep then from getting decapitated by their fathers?


Not only have you mockingly compared mental illness to heartburn, now you openly and sarcastically joke about young children being decapitated.

You’ve shown yourself to be a relatively poor poster over time, bit this is next level disturbing, even for you.  Absolutely sickening.


----------



## keeprunning

oh canada said:


> Doesn't matter to Surf:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arizona doctors express concern over dwindling number of hospital beds
> 
> 
> Some doctors around the state are sounding the alarm on the number of available hospital beds - or lack thereof - as coronavirus cases surge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.abc15.com


I'm all for the kids playing but let's be reasonable. For all of you that like to buy a stock at an all time high, This.

Arizona is reporting the *most single day cases ever* for COVID-19  12,314 new cases for #COVID19


----------



## notintheface

keeprunning said:


> I'm all for the kids playing but let's be reasonable. For all of you that like to buy a stock at an all time high, This.
> 
> Arizona is reporting the *most single day cases ever* for COVID-19  12,314 new cases for #COVID19


Those are rookie numbers. 1 in 25 people in LA County have already had the virus and we're adding 2% new cases per day.

Coming soon, Surf Cup 2020: New Hampshire!!!!!!!!


----------



## dad4

notintheface said:


> Those are rookie numbers. 1 in 25 people in LA County have already had the virus and we're adding 2% new cases per day.
> 
> Coming soon, Surf Cup 2020: New Hampshire!!!!!!!!


AZ is totally beating LA county on this.  They’re at 52,000 cases per million.  LA is barely over 45,000.  LA had a chance, but then they benched their best spreader for hosting tik tok parties.

See you in NH for Surf.  Don’t forget the snow shovel so you can help clear the field.


----------



## timbuck

In response to those that are worried that a break will mess up their kids soccer IQ-
Your kids soccer IQ would go up if they used this "break" to watch a lot of soccer on TV.  Premier League, MLS, Bundesliga, Mexico, Womens, College, old replays of games, etc
Their technical ability will improve if they have a good wall and 45 minutes a day to work with a ball and a wall.
Their fitness will be ok if they break a sweat every day.
Their competitive spirit will stay if they call 3 friends and play 2v2 with pug goals a few times a week.
When games can be played again- give them a month of practice and 3 weeks of scrimmage games to be ready to play a meaningful game.


----------



## nextgenathletics

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Nevada is pretty bad as well. This covid outbreak is definitely real.
> 
> This is coming from a dad that had no problem having his kids play futsal games all summer and fall. I’m now just going to quarantine my family for 1 month.   I need a break anyways to work on my golf game. Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nevada hospital treats patients in parking garage amid coronavirus surge
> 
> 
> "Nobody who has gone into medicine ever thought they would be providing care in a parking garage," said Jacob Keeperman, an intensive care unit doctor at Renown Health.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com



All the beds in that parking garage are empty, while the nurse lady is crying, except one dude texting on his phone in the background. Ummmm, did they conveniently move all the dying patients out of the shot for the video-op? 

I know the media can be convincing as hell, and not saying COVID doesn't exist, but damn, you can't buy everything. No matter how convincing it looks on screen.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

timbuck said:


> In response to those that are worried that a break will mess up their kids soccer IQ-
> Your kids soccer IQ would go up if they used this "break" to watch a lot of soccer on TV.  Premier League, MLS, Bundesliga, Mexico, Womens, College, old replays of games, etc
> Their technical ability will improve if they have a good wall and 45 minutes a day to work with a ball and a wall.
> Their fitness will be ok if they break a sweat every day.
> Their competitive spirit will stay if they call 3 friends and play 2v2 with pug goals a few times a week.
> When games can be played again- give them a month of practice and 3 weeks of scrimmage games to be ready to play a meaningful game.


Bingo!!   Kids in the USA need to watch more soccer.  The soccer IQ actually improves if all they do is play streetball and watch some soccer with friends.  Watch a move on tv and then play with your brother/sister or neighbors.    This is why South Americans are so good at soccer. That's all we did when I lived in my youth years.        Joystick coaching is not going to improve their soccer IQ.  Tournaments tend to be mostly joystick coaching for younger teams.  Tournaments dont help kids as much as adults think.


----------



## Spfister

Interesting… I just spoke to one of the travel coordinators for booking hotels for Olders surf… She said they’ve had no cancellations and in fact people are booking now. She did say younger surf there have had many cancellations


----------



## timbuck

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Bingo!!   Kids in the USA need to watch more soccer.  The soccer IQ actually improves if all they do is play streetball and watch some soccer with friends.  Watch a move on tv and then play with your brother/sister or neighbors.    This is why South Americans are so good at soccer. That's all we did when I lived in my youth years.        Joystick coaching is not going to improve their soccer IQ.  Tournaments tend to be mostly joystick coaching for younger teams.  Tournaments dont help kids as much as adults think.


I doubt that kids in countries with a true soccer "culture" need a coach to teach them how to do a sole roll, cruyff turn, stepover, scissors, etc.  They show up to their first training session with these skills.
Kinda like an American kid and dribbling a basketball.  Between the legs, around the back, etc.  They learn these on the driveway with friends.  Or playing by themselves while shouting "KOBE!" when hitting a fadeaway jumper.


----------



## crush

SoccerFan4Life said:


> *Bingo!!  * Kids in the USA need to watch more soccer.  The soccer IQ actually improves if all they do is play streetball and watch some soccer with friends.  Watch a move on tv and then play with your brother/sister or neighbors.    This is why South Americans are so good at soccer. That's all we did when I lived in my youth years.        Joystick coaching is not going to improve their soccer IQ.  Tournaments tend to be mostly joystick coaching for younger teams.  *Tournaments dont help kids as much as adults think.*


My dd will never watch a game unless i pay her to watch, so I would have to force her and I would i feel horrible to do that to her.  She is balling today and has a USL game later this week with some friends.  Tournaments is what my dd loves and league matches that have a championship attached to it. I also will say that tournaments do more for us crazy parents then most of the kids.  If your doing the gamer circuit with tournaments, it better be the best of the best moo.  My dd was on the last true team to experience that at U13.  After that year, it was watered down product and split into two leagues in socal and around the country because the world is watching and we needed a big change in the girls game.  All too because of this and that and all because they wanted to hog it all to themselves.  We know the drill   Showcases no bueno, MOO!!!  I will say it way too many games for the kids.  
With the big cosmic shift, my goat is set up nicely to make a late run.  12 real club games in two years and her body healed itself from over use.  I take some blame for that because it was addicting watching the best of the best battle it out every month in some big time tournament.


----------



## NorCalDad

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Bingo!!   Kids in the USA need to watch more soccer.  The soccer IQ actually improves if all they do is play streetball and watch some soccer with friends.  Watch a move on tv and then play with your brother/sister or neighbors.    This is why South Americans are so good at soccer. That's all we did when I lived in my youth years.        Joystick coaching is not going to improve their soccer IQ.  Tournaments tend to be mostly joystick coaching for younger teams.  Tournaments dont help kids as much as adults think.


Great day to watch a game too!  Juve vs. Barca.  Bonus, 3 USMNT players in the match.


----------



## PruritusAniFC

crush said:


> My dd will never watch a game unless i pay her to watch, so I would have to force her and I would i feel horrible to do that to her.  She is balling today and has a USL game later this week with some friends.  Tournaments is what my dd loves and league matches that have a championship attached to it. I also will say that tournaments do more for us crazy parents then most of the kids.  If your doing the gamer circuit with tournaments, it better be the best of the best moo.  My dd was on the last true team to experience that at U13.  After that year, it was watered down product and split into two leagues in socal and around the country because the world is watching and we needed a big change in the girls game.  All too because of this and that and all because they wanted to hog it all to themselves.  We know the drill   Showcases no bueno, MOO!!!  I will say it way too many games for the kids.
> With the big cosmic shift, my goat is set up nicely to make a late run.  12 real club games in two years and her body healed itself from over use.  I take some blame for that because it was addicting watching the best of the best battle it out every month in some big time tournament.


What age groups does USL have for Girls? Location? Southern Cal?


----------



## oh canada

Surf doesn't care:









						Arizona reports record 12,314 new coronavirus cases, 23 more deaths
					

Arizona reported a record 12,314 new coronavirus cases and 23 additional deaths on Tuesday, putting the state's totals at 378,157 COVID-19 infections and 6,973 fatalities.




					ktar.com


----------



## Overtime

oh canada said:


> Surf doesn't care:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arizona reports record 12,314 new coronavirus cases, 23 more deaths
> 
> 
> Arizona reported a record 12,314 new coronavirus cases and 23 additional deaths on Tuesday, putting the state's totals at 378,157 COVID-19 infections and 6,973 fatalities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ktar.com


Beach pulled teams from Surf


----------



## Zen

Overtime said:


> Beach pulled teams from Surf


MVLA did as well


----------



## LASTMAN14

Overtime said:


> Beach pulled teams from Surf


I am not sure Surf knows yet.  But they may now.


----------



## futboldad1

Overtime said:


> Beach pulled teams from Surf


So that is a "no" from Beach, Real ECNL, Breakers ECNL, Slammers ECNL, LAFC ECNL..... it looks like it will be mostly non-Socal in the older top fights at AZ Surf...... lot of medals for the San Diego Surf kids coming soon....... Youngers may have some good teams, and if Texas comes then it could still be a tough tournament if it goes ahead......


----------



## Luis Andres

crush said:


> @Luis Andres, you guys going to AZ for the Cup?


yes we are going


----------



## timbuck

futboldad1 said:


> So that is a "no" from Beach, Real ECNL, Breakers ECNL, Slammers ECNL, LAFC ECNL..... it looks like it will be mostly non-Socal in the older top fights at AZ Surf...... lot of medals for the San Diego Surf kids coming soon....... Youngers may have some good teams, and if Texas comes then it could still be a tough tournament if it goes ahead......


When things get back to "normal" and Surf Cup is held back in Del Mar in the summer-  Will they hold a grudge against teams that pulled out?


----------



## tjinaz

timbuck said:


> When things get back to "normal" and Surf Cup is held back in Del Mar in the summer-  Will they hold a grudge against teams that pulled out?


Anyone else think they may really need the revenue from this tournament to remain solvent?


----------



## Spfister

tjinaz said:


> Anyone else think they may really need the revenue from this tournament to remain solvent?


Makes sense since they are pushing so hard


----------



## soccer661

futboldad1 said:


> So that is a "no" from Beach, Real ECNL, Breakers ECNL, Slammers ECNL, LAFC ECNL..... it looks like it will be mostly non-Socal in the older top fights at AZ Surf...... lot of medals for the San Diego Surf kids coming soon....... Youngers may have some good teams, and if Texas comes then it could still be a tough tournament if it goes ahead......


Haven't heard a "no" from Real So Cal as of yet...did an email go out?


----------



## soccer661

Or is that Real Colorado you are speaking of?


----------



## outside!

tjinaz said:


> Anyone else think they may really need the revenue from this tournament to remain solvent?


If Surf (the tournament entity not the soccer club) needs this tournament to remain solvent they have been doing many things wrong for many years. I know the CEO, he is smarter than that.


----------



## notintheface

MSK357 said:


> You couldn't be more wrong. Coaches don't even show up to half the scrimmages i go to. Like I said. My kid wants to play games, even if its just pick up games with other girls not afraid to train and play. You must have a sad life that you think its about anything more than letting my kid do what they love. You seem stuck on the fact that I said kids that play scrimmages every weekend and have contact practices are going to be far ahead of others. Seems like you're the one panicking that I might be right and you want other kids to stop so that its an even playing field when snowflakes like you can crawl out from under your rock. Troll. Nothing you say will stop me and more people are out playing. I'm running out of field space with all the teams coming out now. I bet that makes you cry at night lol.


Please don't scream at your daughter next year when her team gets blown out by a team who didn't play any games in 2020.


----------



## oh canada

Are there any moral and enlightened Surf families who can find the courage to stand up to their club?  Or, at least to their team manager to say, "no thank you"?


----------



## watfly

timbuck said:


> When things get back to "normal" and Surf Cup is held back in Del Mar in the summer-  Will they hold a grudge against teams that pulled out?


Normally they would, but given the circumstances and the number of teams, they might be a little more understanding.


----------



## Desert Hound

outside! said:


> If Surf (the tournament entity not the soccer club) needs this tournament to remain solvent they have been doing many things wrong for many years. I know the CEO, he is smarter than that.


If the tournament entity exists to set up tournaments, and so far they have not been able to run any, I would assume it creates a rather large negative financial impact.


----------



## notintheface

tjinaz said:


> Anyone else think they may really need the revenue from this tournament to remain solvent?











						SURF CUP SPORTS LLC - Tracking PPP - ProPublica
					

As part of the Paycheck Protection Program, the federal government has provided hundreds of billions in financial support to banks to make low-interest loans to companies and nonprofit organizations in response to the economic devastation caused by the coronavirus pandemic. Search more than 11...



					projects.propublica.org
				




Maybe?


----------



## Jose has returned

oh canada said:


> Doesn't matter to Surf:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arizona doctors express concern over dwindling number of hospital beds
> 
> 
> Some doctors around the state are sounding the alarm on the number of available hospital beds - or lack thereof - as coronavirus cases surge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.abc15.com


It's simple.  The healthy people that want to go can and wear a mask and SD and all the other stuff. For you and your family you sound scared you all should stay home and hunker down.  I have no ill will toward anyone that does that. Other people;e that should be concerned:  If they are over 65 years old definitely the highest risk accounting for over 50% of the deaths at least in the OC (other places never report that on the news).  If others are fat or have other health problems stay home.  99.96% of people recover. I had it and it sucks I wouldn't recommend anyone get it but I also don't think people should get the flu or cold either. Take care of your self and let everyone else live and build up the heard for you all will be fine.


----------



## Jose has returned

oh canada said:


> Are there any moral and enlightened Surf families who can find the courage to stand up to their club?  Or, at least to their team manager to say, "no thank you"?


Hopefully more stand up to this draconian mandate that government officials aren't scared of but want the healthy people to be scared.


----------



## Footy30

futboldad1 said:


> So that is a "no" from Beach, Real ECNL, Breakers ECNL, Slammers ECNL, LAFC ECNL..... it looks like it will be mostly non-Socal in the older top fights at AZ Surf...... lot of medals for the San Diego Surf kids coming soon....... Youngers may have some good teams, and if Texas comes then it could still be a tough tournament if it goes ahead......


That leaves the Blues, Legends and SD Surf that haven't chimed in... 
Anyone????


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> Please don't scream at your daughter next year when her team gets blown out by a team who didn't play any games in 2020.


I couldn't care less if her team wins or not.  I care that my daughter gets to play soccer and gets better everyday like she wants.  Been through winning and losing seasons, never cried like how you are that kids are secretly playing soccer.


----------



## crush

oh canada said:


> Surf doesn't care:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arizona reports record 12,314 new coronavirus cases, 23 more deaths
> 
> 
> Arizona reported a record 12,314 new coronavirus cases and 23 additional deaths on Tuesday, putting the state's totals at 378,157 COVID-19 infections and 6,973 fatalities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ktar.com


Neither does my dd.  She is 100% a no.  Good luck to all the teams.


----------



## LASTMAN14

NorCalDad said:


> Great day to watch a game too!  Juve vs. Barca.  Bonus, 3 USMNT players in the match.
> [/QUOT
> 
> 
> 
> _*Nice goal by Weston McKennie against Barca*_.


----------



## 4wd

San Juan (Norcal) has pulled out of Surf Cup also.


----------



## watfly

Based on the optics and teams pulling out its probably time for Surf to pull the plug.


----------



## Glitterhater

So far, the only Norcal club that I've heard for sure still trying to go is Blues FC. But even that decision was getting push back from families.


----------



## Glitterhater

To clarify, I'm not talking about the BayArea.


----------



## 46n2

are you sure they pulled out or didnt get in since they had to cut teams again, each time you had to get approved.


----------



## futboldad1

46n2 said:


> are you sure they pulled out or didnt get in since they had to cut teams again, each time you had to get approved.


San Juan and Mvla are in the ecnl..... id guess if they wanted to go to az new year surf they would be..... I know for 100% sure the so cal ecnl clubs I listed opted out


----------



## dean

What about other ECNL clubs in NorCal - Mustang, Davis, Force (Thorns), etc.? Any still going?


----------



## Bruddah IZ

oh canada said:


> Are there any moral and enlightened Surf families who can find the courage to stand up to their club?  Or, at least to their team manager to say, "no thank you"?


Morality and enlightenment.  This should be fun.  Hope the grandma killers are ready.


----------



## Overtime

Tomorrow is last day to pull out with full refund unless Surf cancels the tourney.  I am sure more to follow.  Sucks for the seniors for sure


----------



## notintheface

This won't be hard to write: "We will be back and bigger than ever next August, with the tournament split across multiple weekends to accommodate the unprecedented demand, Surf Cup 2021 will be the best ever of the 'best of the best', blah blah blah blah blah"...


----------



## timbuck

Overtime said:


> Tomorrow is last day to pull out with full refund unless Surf cancels the tourney.  I am sure more to follow.  Sucks for the seniors for sure


I was going to make a joke about coaches and pulling out.  Nevermind


----------



## PruritusAniFC

timbuck said:


> I was going to make a joke about coaches and pulling out.  Nevermind


----------



## Soccerfan2

dean said:


> What about other ECNL clubs in NorCal - Mustang, Davis, Force (Thorns), etc.? Any still going?


Davis and Thorns are out


----------



## soccer4us

Pretty sure all Nor Cal ECNL clubs are out or will be shortly.


----------



## Jose has returned

i would put all No-cal as out just based on the geography.  people are terrified of it up there


----------



## ToonArmy

It's a much easier decisions for Ecnl clubs that already had 2 showcases and league games all out of state


----------



## soccer@3

Soccerfan2 said:


> Davis and Thorns are out


Mustang is out and yes, force (thorns) are out.


----------



## full90

I know a surf olders dad and he said the parents on his sons team are torn. These boys are trying to get film to colleges so it feels like a necessary evil to go. He said none of them particularly want to go but don’t want to push back at surf (understandably) and want their sons to have college options esp the senior boys. He’s a doctor and knows the risks and the optics and he said it’s just a tough spot to be in. I asked if some families might not go and he said for sure but didn’t know specifics.

personally I think surf will cancel. I think surf powers that be would press on no matter what but I think other cities in Arizona will pull their field usage and surf will be forced to cancel. If I’m the mayor of Scottsdale or wherever how much do I lay on the line for an out of state entity?


----------



## Jose has returned

full90 said:


> I know a surf olders dad and he said the parents on his sons team are torn. These boys are trying to get film to colleges so it feels like a necessary evil to go. He said none of them particularly want to go but don’t want to push back at surf (understandably) and want their sons to have college options esp the senior boys. He’s a doctor and knows the risks and the optics and he said it’s just a tough spot to be in. I asked if some families might not go and he said for sure but didn’t know specifics.
> 
> personally I think surf will cancel. I think surf powers that be would press on no matter what but I think other cities in Arizona will pull their field usage and surf will be forced to cancel. If I’m the mayor of Scottsdale or wherever how much do I lay on the line for an out of state entity?


Hopefully, Scottsdale looks at the science.  College football has been playing no major issues and in much more of a contact sport Professional soccer teams are playing too.   kids aren't spreaders so keep older folks away and unhealthy folks away.   Do wear the masks and other stuff and play on


----------



## kickingandscreaming

timbuck said:


> When things get back to "normal" and Surf Cup is held back in Del Mar in the summer-  Will they hold a grudge against teams that pulled out?


No, they’ll treat you like sh*t, same as always


----------



## happy9

Jose has returned said:


> Hopefully, Scottsdale looks at the science.  College football has been playing no major issues and in much more of a contact sport Professional soccer teams are playing too.   kids aren't spreaders so keep older folks away and unhealthy folks away.   Do wear the masks and other stuff and play on


Scottsdale has bigger fish to fry than hosting a very small event like Surf.  If there is even a whisper (there may have already been, we'll see) that having Surf will trigger restrictions, Scottsdale will pull their fields.  There are way too many events in JAN and FEB that drive a significant amount of revenue for the city. 

Scottsdale tends to be a pragmatic, business friendly and savvy city.  In my opinion, they won't pull fields because of "science", they'll pull fields because of economics.  They prefer having lear jets flying in daily to attend Barret Jackson and the Phoenix Open vs hosting families in suburbans and minivans who are ordering takeout from chain restaurants and cramming 4 people into a room.  The dollars don't add up.

Scottsdale will hold off on making a decision until they get a better lay of the land from the county and state.


----------



## crush

PruritusAniFC said:


> What age groups does USL have for Girls? Location? Southern Cal?


Still working on Crush FC.  Basically, it's open division.  HS age and kids who want to stay in shape.  Crush FC is from the great OC.  However, we have players from Riverside, LA and OC.  I need Tech Fc to field a squad and Kicker FC to handle South Bay and LA.  I have about 8 committed so far.  I might go after Fabi and Fifi if no one else answers the call.  It's just some extra games.  No contacts, no fees and play when you want.  I just need some solid players.


----------



## whatithink

happy9 said:


> Scottsdale has bigger fish to fry than hosting a very small event like Surf.  If there is even a whisper (there may have already been, we'll see) that having Surf will trigger restrictions, Scottsdale will pull their fields.  There are way too many events in JAN and FEB that drive a significant amount of revenue for the city.
> 
> Scottsdale tends to be a pragmatic, business friendly and savvy city.  In my opinion, they won't pull fields because of "science", they'll pull fields because of economics.  They prefer having lear jets flying in daily to attend Barret Jackson and the Phoenix Open vs hosting families in suburbans and minivans who are ordering takeout from chain restaurants and cramming 4 people into a room.  The dollars don't add up.
> 
> Scottsdale will hold off on making a decision until they get a better lay of the land from the county and state.


100% agree, & rolling into spring training in March also. Surf isn't a blip economically relative to the other events.


----------



## full90

Jose has returned said:


> Hopefully, Scottsdale looks at the science.  College football has been playing no major issues and in much more of a contact sport Professional soccer teams are playing too.   kids aren't spreaders so keep older folks away and unhealthy folks away.   Do wear the masks and other stuff and play on


I don’t think soccer is an issue but for sure hotels are. Hotels are one of the top 5 spreaders. And like Everythjng else, it’s optics. If your hospitals are jam packed and health care workers and health professionals are begging the community for help do you want to be in charge of a city that invites out of state people in?
2,000 people a day are dying. Someone is spreading it. 

My friend also has a daughter at surf and her coach is telling them they might not go. The parents on that team do not want to go so only like 4 girls have said yes. So sounds like it’s in flux at least for some surf teams. 

will surf dilute their brand and bring in lesser clubs just to pull this off? Or is it just a bottom line fill the slots thing?


----------



## ITFC Blues

College Football doesn't have an issue with players infecting opponents because they test their players just about every day and when they test positive they can't participate for 2 weeks.  They try to put them in a bubble.   Michigan begged to play this season and now their season is over as they haven't had enough players available for last week's game and their biggest game of the year this weekend.  Is surf going to require participants and their parents to be have a negative test 72 hours before the tournament.  I doubt it.  That might be a solution though.


----------



## oh canada

futboldad1 said:


> San Juan and Mvla are in the ecnl..... id guess if they wanted to go to az new year surf they would be..... I know for 100% sure the so cal ecnl clubs I listed opted out


So glad to see that some (most) clubs have management with common sense, business savvy, and an understanding of the situation's gravity.  This will tarnish Surf's reputation for a long, long time.  I think they should change their jersey logo from an ocean wave to:


----------



## EOTL

full90 said:


> I don’t think soccer is an issue but for sure hotels are. Hotels are one of the top 5 spreaders. And like Everythjng else, it’s optics. If your hospitals are jam packed and health care workers and health professionals are begging the community for help do you want to be in charge of a city that invites out of state people in?
> 2,000 people a day are dying. Someone is spreading it.
> 
> My friend also has a daughter at surf and her coach is telling them they might not go. The parents on that team do not want to go so only like 4 girls have said yes. So sounds like it’s in flux at least for some surf teams.
> 
> will surf dilute their brand and bring in lesser clubs just to pull this off? Or is it just a bottom line fill the slots thing?


Wait a second. Are you telling me the U11s don’t just teleport to and from the fields? They need to actually stay somewhere? And get there and back, typically by a daddy who thinks it’s all a hoax and spends evenings hanging at the bar or hanging out in the parking lot with all the other denialists?

Dude, it’s getting spread by all the nursing home residents who are somehow passing it to each other and from one nursing home to the next from their beds.


----------



## GT45

Nah Oh Canda, many top clubs are going. They had a ton of applications. They will be fine. Less teams is likely more desirable since their field space is probably less now.


----------



## happy9

whatithink said:


> 100% agree, & rolling into spring training in March also. Surf isn't a blip economically relative to the other events.


forgot about spring training.  That affects a bigger footprint than Scottsdale.


----------



## notintheface

kickingandscreaming said:


> No, they’ll treat you like sh*t, same as always


Funny enough, this is one of the reasons why I think the Surf tournament org might be in more dire straits than we think. Incompetence aside, they have been much much friendlier than normal in their communications and they wouldn't do that if they were playing from their normal position of strength.


----------



## Jose has returned

Footy30 said:


> That leaves the Blues, Legends and SD Surf that haven't chimed in...
> Anyone????


I don't know who is in or out  but if there are any scouts even if not D1 they will watch the few top clubs that are there.  it might be serendipitous


----------



## Spfister

Our club in NorCal is sending a few teams.


----------



## Jose has returned

full90 said:


> I don’t think soccer is an issue but for sure hotels are. Hotels are one of the top 5 spreaders. And like Everythjng else, it’s optics. If your hospitals are jam packed and health care workers and health professionals are begging the community for help do you want to be in charge of a city that invites out of state people in?
> 2,000 people a day are dying. Someone is spreading it.
> 
> My friend also has a daughter at surf and her coach is telling them they might not go. The parents on that team do not want to go so only like 4 girls have said yes. So sounds like it’s in flux at least for some surf teams.
> 
> will surf dilute their brand and bring in lesser clubs just to pull this off? Or is it just a bottom line fill the slots thing?


well there are not any tournaments going on here or there right now and number of cases are up so they cant blame that on high school kids out in the fresh air.


----------



## EOTL

Jose has returned said:


> I don't know who is in or out  but if there are any scouts even if not D1 they will watch the few top clubs that are there.  it might be serendipitous


Someone’s glass is 1/30th full.


----------



## Lavey29

Going to be another great Surf event. Kid getting some emails to coaches to see if they are attending.  If not plenty of 4k video for highlight clips.


----------



## Lavey29

EOTL said:


> Someone’s glass is 1/30th full.


Hey Ewok, how many kids you got playing the beautiful game? What age division?


----------



## MamaBear5

West coast is officially out as of tonight.


----------



## Glitterhater

Will Surf posted the list of teams attending? (An updated list?) I'm wondering if some clubs are still sending some teams- just not all they had initially planned, (like some teams backing out while others stay.)


----------



## lafalafa

Glitterhater said:


> Will Surf posted the list of teams attending? (An updated list?) I'm wondering if some clubs are still sending some teams- just not all they had initially planned, (like some teams backing out while others stay.)


When the schedules come out.

I've seen the updated list today, for the olders boys the competition I would say is average or slightly below typical surf level.  The number of teams is down overall...instead of the typical 3-4 brackets likely just 2 I would guess.   There is always some movement and last minute +- so will see but the record numbers from CA not happening this go around I would say.


----------



## Jose has returned

When the beat down is lifted  everyone will scramble to get out there


----------



## Jose has returned

EOTL said:


> Someone’s glass is 1/30th full.


someone isn't scared either


----------



## dad4

Jose has returned said:


> When the beat down is lifted  everyone will scramble to get out there


well, yeah.  we hate covid, not soccer.

once it makes sense, we’ll totally be back for games.


----------



## Jose has returned

dad4 said:


> well, yeah.  we hate covid, not soccer.
> 
> once it makes sense, we’ll totally be back for games.


I agree.  if you are scared stay home inside.  No argument from me


----------



## Jose has returned

Sturgis had 450 k people and 88 covid cases.   not so super spreader.   small gathering of 12 has 11 test positive there is no rhyme or reason.


----------



## keeprunning

MamaBear5 said:


> West coast is officially out as of tonight.


heard this as well.


----------



## happy9

Jose has returned said:


> Sturgis had 450 k people and 88 covid cases.   not so super spreader.   small gathering of 12 has 11 test positive there is no rhyme or reason.


You are comparing cars to horse drawn carriages.  The rally in Sturgis brings in about $780M for the town. Surf will not.  The rally is held every year in Sturgis, Surf has never been held in AZ.

What you fail to see is that this decision is likely not going to come down to the spread of the virus, but the potential denial of real dollars to cities across the Phoenix metro in the weeks and month after Surf is done.  Scottsdale (and other cities) don't really cares about 3 soccer games for your kids (or my kids).  They will tell you to go pound sand, chant  the I've been put in chains slogan somewhere else - they have people in Lear jets who want to come and spend real money. 

We had over 12K new cases today and ICU beds held steady at 10% remaining (which is normal for this time of the year).  Fatality rate on infections keep falling but that's not how it gets reported.  The local media hyper ventilates on cases. Health care leaders are worried about bed space for revenue generating patients.  If this inches higher into the low 90s for ICU beds, I see something being done county wide to help stabilize bed space.  It has to be done sooner rather than later in order to give the metro area the breathing space it needs to make money in JAN and FEB.  The lowest hanging fruit is surf.  They will cancel surf before they stop elective surgeries. 

We also don't have an appetite for real lockdowns. Notice that the City of Phoenix closed fields.  They didn't place additional restrictions on businesses, etc.   The very ideals that the CA population is screaming for may very well piss you off the most.  In order to not enact strict lockdown measures, they will go after the easy stuff - deny a small potatoes outside entity the ability to have an event.  What heroes they will be, taking action.

You can still come and eat and stay, you just can't play organized soccer during a weekend that we normally don't play organized soccer. Which is fine, the golf courses are in great shape, play a round or two.


----------



## happy9

keeprunning said:


> heard this as well.


How many top tier clubs are left?


----------



## dad4

Jose has returned said:


> I agree.  if you are scared stay home inside.  No argument from me


It isn't fear.

Some of us believe we have a moral obligation to not spread fatal diseases.  That is all.

It's just basic non-sociopathic behavior.  Other people seem to lack this impulse.  Don't ask me why.


----------



## Kicker4Life

dad4 said:


> It isn't fear.
> 
> Some of us believe we have a moral obligation to not spread fatal diseases.  That is all.
> 
> It's just basic non-sociopathic behavior.  Other people seem to lack this impulse.  Don't ask me why.


So the entire country of Sweden are Sociopaths?


----------



## dad4

Kicker4Life said:


> So the entire country of Sweden are Sociopaths?


They recently reformed, if you read the news.  

Hope for us all.


----------



## Glitterhater

I must be behind on the Sweden news- I thought they imposed stricter lock downs as of late due to their death rate or some metric? Admittedly, I skimmed.


----------



## dad4

Glitterhater said:


> I must be behind on the Sweden news- I thought they imposed stricter lock downs as of late due to their death rate or some metric? Admittedly, I skimmed.


You're up to date.  The mask optional,  no lockdown plan wasn't working out for them, so they dropped it.


----------



## Kicker4Life

dad4 said:


> You're up to date.  The mask optional,  no lockdown plan wasn't working out for them, so they dropped it.


I wasn’t arguing that point.  Just the “sociopath” reference.


----------



## dad4

Kicker4Life said:


> I wasn’t arguing that point.  Just the “sociopath” reference.


To be fair, Sweden's original plan was to bet on the good side of humanity, that people will do the right thing because it is the right thing.   

It was never meant to be a thumb in the eye to public health measures.  Just a different way to get people to adopt them.


----------



## nextgenathletics

dad4 said:


> It isn't fear.
> 
> Some of us believe we have a moral obligation to not spread fatal diseases.  That is all.
> 
> It's just basic non-sociopathic behavior.  Other people seem to lack this impulse.  Don't ask me why.


So the basic non-sociopath who thought it was ok to enjoy an indoor feast with his rich friends, unmasked, is the basic non-sociopath who mandated restrictions less than a month later so that all the evil sociopaths get angry because their sociopathic livelihoods and sociopathic businesses get closed down because the basic non-sociopath is just doing his moral obligation to be a basic non-sociopath. 

That's sociopathic logic.


----------



## notintheface

Lavey29 said:


> Going to be another great Surf event. Kid getting some emails to coaches to see if they are attending.  If not plenty of 4k video for highlight clips.


I found the Surf employee, everyone! Thank you, Mr. Joined September 16th and definitely not a sock puppet!


----------



## kickingandscreaming

dad4 said:


> They recently reformed, if you read the news.
> 
> Hope for us all.


You too, evidently. Guess there is hope.


----------



## EOTL

dad4 said:


> To be fair, Sweden's original plan was to bet on the good side of humanity, that people will do the right thing because it is the right thing.
> 
> It was never meant to be a thumb in the eye to public health measures.  Just a different way to get people to adopt them.


The good side of humanity conflicts with the American Way.

It is fun that people point to a country with socialized medicine as the model for handling the worst pandemic since the advent of modern medicine.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

Good luck to those families going to Surf cup. Be safe and have fun.  Just don’t judge those who are not going as too scared to do anything.


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> It isn't fear.
> 
> Some of us believe we have a moral obligation to not spread fatal diseases.  That is all.
> 
> It's just basic non-sociopathic behavior.  Other people seem to lack this impulse.  Don't ask me why.


I assume @Dominic this means out and out COVID talk is now o.k. again the soccer forums?


----------



## dad4

Grace T. said:


> I assume @Dominic this means out and out COVID talk is now o.k. again the soccer forums?


And the repeated "scared" accusation is any different?   It certainly has nothing to do with soccer.

At some point, I got tired of it.


----------



## Grace T.

EOTL said:


> It is fun that people point to a country with socialized medicine as the model for handling the worst pandemic since the advent of modern medicine.


And apparently out and out politics is o.k. now too @Dominic


----------



## N00B

EOTL said:


> The good side of humanity conflicts with the American Way.


Please expand upon this point.  Bonus points if you  can do so without violating the ‘no politics’ requirements of this forum.... which you’ve already done repeatedly.

Troll.


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> It isn't fear.
> 
> Some of us believe we have a *moral obligation* to not spread fatal diseases.  That is all.
> 
> It's just basic non-sociopathic behavior.  Other people seem to lack this impulse.  Don't ask me why.


Oh please!!!  That made me sick to read that from you just now   You got a job for life and preach math for a living under the old system.  Enough is enough dad 4.  I love you man!!!


----------



## crush

N00B said:


> Please expand upon this point.  Bonus points if you  can do so without violating the ‘no politics’ requirements of this forum.... which you’ve already done repeatedly.
> 
> Troll.


Maybe Dom=EOTL?


----------



## crush

It's amazing how one club own us all one way or another.  They had all the goods and connections.  Not no more and that is good thing for everyone.  Make it a home run day everyone


----------



## crush

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Good luck to those families going to Surf cup. Be safe and have fun.  *Just don’t judge* those who are not going as too scared to do anything.


I thought the same thing.  My biggest transformation is not judging others and offer up forgiveness to everyone, even my closest enemies.  Now that is a winning attitude.  It's not easy, but it's the right attitude to have and I'm practicing everyday to be better.  Judge Crush is no more!!!  With the measure you use to judge, that measure will be used against you so it's best to forgive.......


----------



## Porkchop

dad4 said:


> You're up to date.  The mask optional,  no lockdown plan wasn't working out for them, so they dropped it.


Sweden’s government proposed a law that would give it the power to close stores in response to a worsening pandemic.  Dec 9 2020


----------



## EOTL

Grace T. said:


> I assume @Dominic this means out and out COVID talk is now o.k. again the soccer forums?


It is very interesting that people like you bring this up only with points of view you don’t like and after page after page of trashing Newsom. Here are comments from page 1 of this thread, none of which involve me.


----------



## crush

Have a "home run" day was coined by the great Skipper.  Skipper is the Bat Boy for LBHS Baseball team and the Anaheim Angels of Los Angeles for a few games.  I grew up with Skipper from Little League all the way up to Varsity baseball team at LB.  We had to play in the South Coast League when I played and it was the hardest time in my life sports wise. I thought I was going pro baseball.  I had teachers like Oh Canada telling me all sorts of things that made me feel like a loser and baseball is where I was best.  Any who, I was not MLB material after all and we got killed in every game, minus Laguna Hills team that was brand new.  Skipper has/had the most positive outlook on life and he helped me and my mates one day that I will never forget.  
One game against Capo, we were down 23-1 in the bottom of the 6th ((9th)) at home.  Skipper was in charge of the score board and he had to run back and forth because Capo Call bros and few others hit home run after home run and Skipper put in a lot running that game.  It was a home run derby.  After we got killed, Skipper put his are around me and told me, "Have a run day Billy."  I said to myself, "thanks Skipper, I will."  I left that day encouraged and never put my head down.  Thanks Skipper!!!


----------



## crush

@EOTL only.  Listen to the words of this song.  We need to all join hands and stop judging and putting others down.  I know a I made a few mistakes.  BTW, your not the only one with darkness.  I have it as well.  We all have been living in our shadows.  If we expose the darkness with light, then we all win. Darkness loses in this game.  Let's look to come together some day EOTL.  We can grab all the hands and join a loving and forgiving circle for betterment of others?  Please do consider this offer of joining hands.  I do forgive you sir


----------



## EOTL

Grace T. said:


> And apparently out and out politics is o.k. now too @Dominic


In fact, this particular thread was already 16 pages into Newsom bashing and trying to bully anyone who dared question whether Surf Cup wad a good idea before I got involved at all. Wanna guess who actually trashed this threat (not counting your role in it of course)?


----------



## Grace T.

crush said:


> Maybe Dom=EOTL?


I thought the theory was Eotl=Nitf???


----------



## EOTL




----------



## EOTL

View attachment 9633


----------



## Glitterhater

I'm not sure what's happening here now, but I would be more than happy to keep my DD home and just let the Seniors play. Those are who I really feel for. Not everyone has tons of game footage, etc. I know that's probably not helpful but if optics are an issue, at least numbers would be smaller!


----------



## EOTL

Is that enough @Grace T., or do you want me to keep going?

I have told all of you 100 times that I’d much prefer a place that stuck to soccer. But you can’t do it.  You and your friends bully people, you bring up politics incessantly, and then you cry like little babies when you get called out.


----------



## crush

Grace T. said:


> I thought the theory was Eotl=Nitf???


I think Espola, Messy, EOTL and Dom might just be the same dude?  Stirring the pot to make more noise=more viewers?  When I came back to this place it was a ghoast town.  Me and Kicker put life back into this place.  It was dead and then I came on here all mad because my dd and other goats got played by liars and cheaters.  Dont play me is all I can say,,,,lol!  I handled all those rants wrong BTW.  All emotional and felt cheated and lost my way.  Bleach burns but will kill all the dirt.


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> Is that enough @Grace T., or do you want me to keep going?
> 
> I have told all of you 100 times that I’d much prefer a place that stuck to soccer. But you can’t do it.  You and your friends bully people, you bring up politics incessantly, and then you cry like little babies when you get called out.


Hey bud, how are you this morning?


----------



## EOTL

By my count @Grace T. there were at least 10 derogatory comments about Gavin Newsom and at least five using the racist term “china virus” before you took it upon yourself to criticize me for responding to them. 

In fact, as I remind people every time this happens, I never once initiated any political or racial discussion, but only responded to those who did.


----------



## crush

Whose land is it?  Who owns all this land?  I come from Scottish Highlanders and my wife is Cherokee.  These two tribes ((clans)) hooked up back in the day and helped each other and even married.  It was all pretty but the heart was there.  I did a private ceremony with my wife and said sorry to her on behalf of all the men from her tribe and my tribes.  This song moves the soul!!!  She is my *equal *partner.  I'm stronger physically but she is stronger emotionally.  We can hurt each or help each other.  We choose to help each other.  Maybe we call all do the same with soccer?


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> Is that enough @Grace T., or do you want me to keep going?
> 
> I have told all of you 100 times that I’d much prefer a place that stuck to soccer. But you can’t do it.  You and your friends bully people, you bring up politics incessantly, and then you cry like little babies when you get called out.


All that time spent researching.  Find any evidence of spreader events associated with youth sports? How about outdoor dining?  

Oh...and have you figured out how to “magically teleport ” food from the grocery store or other necessities?

Tick tock.......


----------



## Desert Hound

Kicker4Life said:


> All that time spent researching.  Find any evidence of spreader events associated with youth sports? How about outdoor dining?
> 
> Oh...and have you figured out how to “magically teleport ” food from the grocery store or other necessities?
> 
> Tick tock.......


Since it is that time of the year to reflect and make our lists. 

EOTL = TROLL of the year on these boards


----------



## Jose has returned

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Good luck to those families going to Surf cup. Be safe and have fun.  Just don’t judge those who are not going as too scared to do anything.


agreed  that should be reciprocated to anyone that chooses to go.  Always do what is in the best interest of your family


----------



## Jose has returned

Grace T. said:


> I assume @Dominic this means out and out COVID talk is now o.k. again the soccer forums?


All roads lead to COVID.


----------



## dad4

Kicker4Life said:


> All that time spent researching.  Find any evidence of spreader events associated with youth sports? How about outdoor dining?
> 
> Oh...and have you figured out how to “magically teleport ” food from the grocery store or other necessities?
> 
> Tick tock.......


Maybe we could agree to stop accusing each other of being scared and/or sociopaths and go back to searching for some soccer to talk about.

Could start with asking whether anyone is actually going to surf.  Sounds like most of norcal is out.  Is it different for socal?


----------



## 46n2

I think its funny his google ads that he screen shot are for a little blue pill, hilarious what are you researching online there buddy!!!


----------



## crush

No more tit for tat everyone.  My gosh, Face and EOTL go back and do a lot research.  No one has time for that!!!!


----------



## Jose has returned

dad4 said:


> It isn't fear.
> 
> Some of us believe we have a moral obligation to not spread fatal diseases.  That is all.
> 
> It's just basic non-sociopathic behavior.  Other people seem to lack this impulse.  Don't ask me why.


Virtue signaling.  Fatal is 99.96% recovery rate?  The Flu is deadly too. Do your own risk assessment.  If you are healthy you will survive.  Review If you are above 65 or have preexisting morbidity absolutely stay home and isolate.


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> *Maybe we could agree to stop accusing each other of being scared and/or sociopaths *and go back to searching for some soccer to talk about.
> 
> Could start with asking whether anyone is actually going to surf.  Sounds like most of norcal is out.  Is it different for socal?


Can we also agree that Algebra and higher level math should not be taught forever in HS and college to the avg student who will never use that kind of math?


----------



## El Clasico

46n2 said:


> I think its funny his google ads that he screen shot are for a little blue pill, hilarious what are you researching online there buddy!!!


Unlikely it would be for him. My guess is the partner's performance is lacking, which would explain why he is so angry all of the time.


----------



## dad4

Jose has returned said:


> Virtue signaling.  Fatal is 99.96% recovery rate?  The Flu is deadly too. Do your own risk assessment.  If you are healthy you will survive.  Review If you are above 65 or have preexisting morbidity absolutely stay home and isolate.


Take it to the covid thread.  I believe you’re wrong.  You believe I’m wrong.  How is soccer?


----------



## crush

*School principal sues over firing: 'I was terminated because I expressed right of center political views - PRIVATELY'*

This is what was wrong with soccer and schools.  If you have a different outlook in your brain, then you have to STFU.  I have two friends that have to keep what they really think inside their brain because if they speak up at school, they will get dealt with.  Some of these Principles play with people lives and they do so many other things I wont mention.  So much blackmail going on in places, not just DC and politics.  Lot's of hanky panky going on and folks can;t be their true self because they are compromised or need that fat raise and all that other stuff that has to do with power & control.


----------



## Jose has returned

Fun facts

NonRacist terms
Ebola virus
Lyme disease
West Nile virus
Hanta virus
Zika virus
all have something in common....

Racist term China virus or Wuhan virus. It has something in common with the non racist terms.  

Animalist terms 
Swinw flu
Avian flu


----------



## Jose has returned

dad4 said:


> Take it to the covid thread.  I believe you’re wrong.  You believe I’m wrong.  How is soccer?


You are funny. All of a sudden you get religion and want everyone to go to the covid thread. good grief


----------



## Jose has returned

Jose has returned said:


> Fun facts
> 
> NonRacist terms
> Ebola virus
> Lyme disease
> West Nile virus
> Hanta virus
> Zika virus
> all have something in common....
> 
> Racist term China virus or Wuhan virus. It has something in common with the non racist terms.
> 
> Animalist terms
> Swinw flu
> Avian flu


Back to Soccer 
This is for those that are going to Surf cup and need to know what is going on.   Surf will be fun time for those that go.  Respect to everyone that doesn't go and respect to those that do.


----------



## Jose has returned

crush said:


> Can we also agree that Algebra and higher level math should not be taught forever in HS and college to the avg student who will never use that kind of math?


A class in personal finance about balancing check books and investing in your 401k would be better for those that are not math savvy


----------



## dad4

Jose has returned said:


> A class in personal finance about balancing check books and investing in your 401k would be better for those that are not math savvy


Toss in credit card debt, pay day loans, pawn shops, and mortgage finance, and you have a nice year long class.  It would help far more people than algebra or geometry.


----------



## crush

Some of us have had too many Randall's in our lives and history of ancestry.  I can tell you I'm done with Imperialism from the Elites.  My wife and I watch Outlander and it helps me understand all my anger issues from my clans of yesteryear.  Some of us are just tired of being screwed over and over by others and we've had enough.  Game on!!!


----------



## Luis Andres

crush said:


> Oh please!!!  That made me sick to read that from you just now   You got a job for life and preach math for a living under the old system.  Enough is enough dad 4.  I love you man!!!


moral obligation? How about the truth that teams from up north will get their non profit status pulled from them if they travel out of state for soccer. Newsom has all of them on a leash. It’s truly sad what the dictator has done to them.


----------



## dad4

Luis Andres said:


> moral obligation? How about the truth that teams from up north will get their non profit status pulled from them if they travel out of state for soccer. Newsom has all of them on leash.


Think we’re back to soccer. Is Blues going?


----------



## Luis Andres

dad4 said:


> Think we’re back to soccer. Is Blues going?


yes we will be at Surf.


----------



## crush

Luis Andres said:


> moral obligation? How about the truth that teams from up north will get their non profit status pulled from them if they travel out of state for soccer. Newsom has all of them on a leash. It’s truly sad what the dictator has done to them.


Moral this one:  Take care of all the *widows, elderly, orphans* and all the *kids *and it will go well for you.  Now, ask yourself how these leaders took care of all four the last 9 months?  I see one dude from Cali got a very beautiful helper back in the day.  That is the truth and it's not hard to see if your on the side of truth.


----------



## happy9

Anyone have an idea of how many ECNL older girls teams are NOT going?


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> Anyone have an idea of how many ECNL older girls teams are NOT going?


All of them it looks like from Socal.  We need to deal with the Winter of Darkness before any soccer will be played.  They started it and someone needs to finish it.


----------



## Jose has returned

dad4 said:


> Toss in credit card debt, pay day loans, pawn shops, and mortgage finance, and you have a nice year long class.  It would help far more people than algebra or geometry.


yes!  How to pay off your loans faster.


----------



## dad4

Luis Andres said:


> yes we will be at Surf.


Lucky dog.  Have fun.  We’ll be there in August.


----------



## EOTL

l


crush said:


> @EOTL only.  Listen to the words of this song.  We need to all join hands and stop judging and putting others down.  I know a I made a few mistakes.  BTW, your not the only one with darkness.  I have it as well.  We all have been living in our shadows.  If we expose the darkness with light, then we all win. Darkness loses in this game.  Let's look to come together some day EOTL.  We can grab all the hands and join a loving and forgiving circle for betterment of others?  Please do consider this offer of joining hands.  I do forgive you sir


How many times do I need to tell you that you’re telling this to the wrong person. This thread got 16 pages into garbage, politics and hate before I said anything. Focus on those who are the problem.


----------



## Giesbock

dad4 said:


> Lucky dog.  Have fun.  We’ll be there in August.


Lovely time of year in Phoenix.  Hopefully you’re there for a swim meet!


----------



## Jose has returned

happy9 said:


> Anyone have an idea of how many ECNL older girls teams are NOT going?


Just what I saw on here the So Cal teams West coast, Slammers  and LAFC are out


----------



## EOTL

Luis Andres said:


> moral obligation? How about the truth that teams from up north will get their non profit status pulled from them if they travel out of state for soccer. Newsom has all of them on a leash. It’s truly sad what the dictator has done to them.


Hey @Grace T. , where are you when people are actually discussing politics in a soccer forum?


----------



## dad4

Jose has returned said:


> Just what I saw on here the So Cal teams West coast, Slammers  and LAFC are out


And most of the norcal teams like Thorns, MVLA, Davis, and Mustangs.


----------



## EOTL

crush said:


> *School principal sues over firing: 'I was terminated because I expressed right of center political views - PRIVATELY'*
> 
> This is what was wrong with soccer and schools.  If you have a different outlook in your brain, then you have to STFU.  I have two friends that have to keep what they really think inside their brain because if they speak up at school, they will get dealt with.  Some of these Principles play with people lives and they do so many other things I wont mention.  So much blackmail going on in places, not just DC and politics.  Lot's of hanky panky going on and folks can;t be their true self because they are compromised or need that fat raise and all that other stuff that has to do with power & control.


Hey @Grace T. , wanna explain how this has anything to do with Surf Cup in AZ?


----------



## EOTL

Jose has returned said:


> Virtue signaling.  Fatal is 99.96% recovery rate?  The Flu is deadly too. Do your own risk assessment.  If you are healthy you will survive.  Review If you are above 65 or have preexisting morbidity absolutely stay home and isolate.


Hey @Grace T. , care to explain how this relates to a soccer tournament in Phoenix?


----------



## dad4

EOTL said:


> Hey @Grace T. , wanna explain how this has anything to do with Surf Cup in AZ?


Grace is just mad with me over something from the covid forum.  So she did her best to retaliate.

Your team headed to Surf?  Or you guys bunkering?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

dad4 said:


> And most of the norcal teams like Thorns, MVLA, Davis, and Mustangs.


So.......... who are the top clubs still going and how much are you all paying for this tournament?


----------



## soccer661

Real So Cal (as of last night) is still going...


----------



## Calisoccer11

Jose has returned said:


> It's simple.  The healthy people that want to go can and wear a mask and SD and all the other stuff. For you and your family you sound scared you all should stay home and hunker down.  I have no ill will toward anyone that does that. Other people;e that should be concerned:  If they are over 65 years old definitely the highest risk accounting for over 50% of the deaths at least in the OC (other places never report that on the news).  If others are fat or have other health problems stay home.  99.96% of people recover. I had it and it sucks I wouldn't recommend anyone get it but I also don't think people should get the flu or cold either. Take care of your self and let everyone else live and build up the heard for you all will be fine.


Except, if God forbid, your DD or any of his/her teammates gets hurt and has to go to the hospital.  What then?  Take your chances but don't kid yourself -it can happen.  It's rare to have a tournament where there are no serious injuries -i.e., broken bones, concussions, torn ACLs, etc.


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> Grace is just mad with me over something from the covid forum.  So she did her best to retaliate.
> 
> Your team headed to Surf?  Or you guys bunkering?


 I'm more annoyed with @Dominic.  I either want the rules enforced or recognized they're meaningless and everyone have at it.


----------



## dad4

Grace T. said:


> I'm more annoyed with @Dominic.  I either want the rules enforced or recognized they're meaningless and everyone have at it.


You going to Surf AZ?


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> You going to Surf AZ?


Our team wouldn't be good enough for Surf but we did pull out of our tournament when the travel advisory came down.


----------



## Eagle33

Grace T. said:


> Our team wouldn't be good enough for Surf but we did pull out of our tournament when the travel advisory came down.


After all big clubs pulling out, your team *would be* good enough


----------



## crush

Today is Decision Day for the greatest Cup ever.  What teams are truly committed to travel to AZ for this Cup? This was the Grand Daddy of them all until some folks put so much water in the kool aid that people like me went crazy.  I tasted that pure kool aid a few times.  It was so surgery that I looked like this dude every day of every week. 


I was so committed to helping my goat reach goathood that I lived like this for 16 months.  All so I could provide the dough to finance our family life in the matrix.
Leave Temecula for OC at 4:30am everyday so I wouldnt have road rage on the 91.  I left OC at 3pm to come home and it was hell. The anger and sadness on the faces as we all raced home to see our loved ones was something I will never forget.  I did that for six months and then decided to stay at air b and b or a nice hotel two times a week and just drive back two times a week.  It was the first time leaving my Queen. Those who sleep together stay together, dont forget that.  I told her I hate living on the road and we need me back home asap.  I decided to go back home ((with a little help from above)) and carry on my duties from home. Still drove into the OC but a lot less. I was making the big bucks and felt like a man and I looked swell from the outside but the misery of doing that was going to destroy my soul.  I also drove my dd to Del Mar two times a week as she was making her Natty run.  That drive was awesome btw.  We both had a great run in club soccer.  The olders after U13 kind of sucked if I were to be honest and it's even worse today.  Age change, GDA vs ECNL Toxic War has taken it's troll on all of us.  Remember the, "The World is Watching BS?"  My league is better and we have the list over hear or my tournament is big time and you suck.  Plus, we steal players from others by misleading them into more lies.  Today, the world is watching.  No more cheating folks and things will be way better.  Come clean and stop cheating.


----------



## Jose has returned

Calisoccer11 said:


> Except, if God forbid, your DD or any of his/her teammates gets hurt and has to go to the hospital.  What then?  Take your chances but don't kid yourself -it can happen.  It's rare to have a tournament where there are no serious injuries -i.e., broken bones, concussions, torn ACLs, etc.


So if I use that logic i would never have my kid play in any sport.  That is always a risk just like going to work or getting on an airplane.


----------



## Eagle33

crush said:


> Today is Decision Day for the greatest Cup ever.  What teams are truly committed to travel to AZ for this Cup? This was the Grand Daddy of them all until some folks put so much water in the kool aid that people like me went crazy.  I tasted that pure kool aid a few times.  It was so surgery that I looked like this dude every day of every week.
> View attachment 9642
> 
> I was so committed to helping my goat reach goathood that I lived like this for 16 months.  All so I could provide the dough to finance our family life in the matrix.
> Leave Temecula for OC at 4:30am everyday so I wouldnt have road rage on the 91.  I left OC at 3pm to come home and it was hell. The anger and sadness on the faces as we all raced home to see our loved ones was something I will never forget.  I did that for six months and then decided to stay at air b and b or a nice hotel two times a week and just drive back two times a week.  It was the first time leaving my Queen. Those who sleep together stay together, dont forget that.  I told her I hate living on the road and we need me back home asap.  I decided to go back home ((with a little help from above)) and carry on my duties from home. Still drove into the OC but a lot less. I was making the big bucks and felt like a man and I looked swell from the outside but the misery of doing that was going to destroy my soul.  I also drove my dd to Del Mar two times a week as she was making her Natty run.  That drive was awesome btw.  We both had a great run in club soccer.  The olders after U13 kind of sucked if I were to be honest and it's even worse today.  Age change, GDA vs ECNL Toxic War has taken it's troll on all of us.  Remember the, "The World is Watching BS?"  My league is better and we have the list over hear or my tournament is big time and you suck.  Plus, we steal players from others by misleading them into more lies.  Today, the world is watching.  No more cheating folks and things will be way better.  Come clean and stop cheating.


Yes, I'm getting my Big keg today!


----------



## crush

Eagle33 said:


> Yes, I'm getting my Big keg today!


That was my last hail Mary.  I thought my dd wanted #6 but it was me and only me.  It was me, ok, I admit it.  I wanted one last dance with her at Surf Cup.  Oh well, life goes on.  I owe you big time and it will be a pleasure serving you Eagle that find Keg.  You have no idea sir, no idea.  War Eagle, War the Jungle of everything socal soccer.  This is the Mecca of all things youth soccer.  We fight for our spots like no other, and we will be back.  I'm out now!!!!


----------



## futboldad1

Real didn't end up pulling out yet as a few of us were told we would..... things can still change but that's the current state of play....

I'm getting mentally prepared to travel over the New Years to win a couple of games by six goals and then lose to Surf 

How I love it when us families are the quid pro quo..........


----------



## crush

futboldad1 said:


> Real didn't end up pulling out yet as a few of us were told we would..... things can still change but that's the current state of play....
> 
> I'm getting mentally prepared to travel over the New Years to win a couple of games by six goals and then lose to Surf
> 
> How I love it when us families are the quid pro quo..........


You are the best dad bro.  Love you man!!!!


----------



## crush

The old ways of, "you play in mind and I'll play in yours" is not working out so swell."


----------



## Kicker4Life

dad4 said:


> Maybe we could agree to stop accusing each other of being scared and/or sociopaths and go back to searching for some soccer to talk about.
> 
> Could start with asking whether anyone is actually going to surf.  Sounds like most of norcal is out.  Is it different for socal?


Not a problem.  Just holding up the standards put forth.  

Lots of top SoCal teams pulling out as well.  Sad, but likely the best course of action right now.  Just have 2 VERY disappointed DD’s as they both need fresh footage for recruiting purposes.


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> Not a problem.  Just holding up the standards put forth.
> 
> Lots of top SoCal teams pulling out as well.  Sad, but likely the best course of action right now.  Just have 2 VERY disappointed DD’s as they both need fresh footage for recruiting purposes.


I know you ignore and I understand why.  I forgive you and i hope you can forgive me.  Now go get a squad together and let's have that scrimmage?  Tech FC is in.  This will be for fun and not all ganas.  Girls need to play in some games bro.  I'm in, so let's get going on this.  I have 10 players now and need three more.  Coach Buck?


----------



## watfly

Grace T. said:


> I'm more annoyed with @Dominic.  I either want the rules enforced or recognized they're meaningless and everyone have at it.


While I get your point, its nearly impossible to discuss "Surf Cup's Fate" with out talking politics, since its fate is largely dependent on the non-scientific (right or left) decisions of politicians.  Now Surf would probably be wise to cancel it on its own accord, but if they want to ignore optics its perfectly legal for them to hold the tournament in certain municipalities.

I may not agree with some of Dominic's decisions, like allowing others to call out minors by name or picture (which is wholly inappropriate), but at the end of the day its his website and and we can choice to participate or not.


----------



## crush

watfly said:


> While I get your point, its nearly impossible to discuss "Surf Cup's Fate" with out talking politics, since its fate is largely dependent on the non-scientific (right or left) decisions of politicians.  Now Surf would probably be wise to cancel it on its own accord, but if they want to ignore optics its perfectly legal for them to hold the tournament in certain municipalities.
> 
> I may not agree with some of Dominic's decisions, like allowing others to call out minors by name or picture (which is wholly inappropriate), but at the end of the day its his website and and we can choice to participate or not.


Soccer + Politics= Pay Per Play.  Talk about a PPP program, my goodness.  This will soon pass and we can all get back to playing life the right way.  We are here to play and work, not work and work and work some more so others can play 99% of the time.  I'm so happy the world is changing


----------



## espola

EOTL said:


> Is that enough @Grace T., or do you want me to keep going?
> 
> I have told all of you 100 times that I’d much prefer a place that stuck to soccer. But you can’t do it.  You and your friends bully people, you bring up politics incessantly, and then you cry like little babies when you get called out.


"bully"  -- thanks for that.  I was looking for the right word.


----------



## Grace T.

watfly said:


> While I get your point, its nearly impossible to discuss "Surf Cup's Fate" with out talking politics, since its fate is largely dependent on the non-scientific (right or left) decisions of politicians.  Now Surf would probably be wise to cancel it on its own accord, but if they want to ignore optics its perfectly legal for them to hold the tournament in certain municipalities.
> 
> I may not agree with some of Dominic's decisions, like allowing others to call out minors by name or picture (which is wholly inappropriate), but at the end of the day its his website and and we can choice to participate or not.


I am happy to participate with any rules that have been posted, and since @Dominic said no COVID talk in the soccer forums have been very careful not to cross that line, just like when he said no politics talks.  I agree with you it's very hard to talk about Surf Cup's Fate (or any soccer topic nowdays) without talking politics.  I just think there's a whole bunch of confusion right now over where and how far we are allowed to go....COVID talk o.k. in the soccer forums or not?....


----------



## espola

Luis Andres said:


> teams from up north will get their non profit status pulled from them if they travel out of state for soccer.


Source?


----------



## Grace T.

espola said:


> "bully"  -- thanks for that.  I was looking for the right word.


Coming from you that's hilarious...or maybe I should say "cuckoo"


----------



## espola

Grace T. said:


> Coming from you that's hilarious...or maybe I should say "cuckoo"


Who have I ever bullied?


----------



## crush

espola said:


> "bully"  -- thanks for that.  I was looking for the right word.


The two shall become one.  EOTL + espola= EOTLespola


----------



## Messi>CR7

Grace T. said:


> I'm more annoyed with @Dominic.  I either want the rules enforced or recognized they're meaningless and everyone have at it.


I'm guesstimating you and @dad4 have each posted 1,500+ messages on Covid since March.  It's fair to say you already had your share of "have at it".

Please go back to the off-topic/Covid forum to continue your endless debate with @dad4 and take @EOTL with you.  Thank you.


----------



## Grace T.

Messi>CR7 said:


> I'm guesstimating you and @dad4 have each posted 1,500+ messages on Covid since March.  It's fair to say you already had your share of "have at it".
> 
> Please go back to the off-topic/Covid forum to continue your endless debate with @dad4 and take @EOTL with you.  Thank you.


Hey since he announced the rules, I've been good.  Like I said, happy to adhere to any rules announced....no COVID talk in the soccer forum, I'm all for that, but then let's not have COVID talk in the soccer forum.


----------



## dad4

[


Messi>CR7 said:


> I'm guesstimating you and @dad4 have each posted 1,500+ messages on Covid since March.  It's fair to say you already had your share of "have at it".
> 
> Please go back to the off-topic/Covid forum to continue your endless debate with @dad4 and take @EOTL with you.  Thank you.


Your club headed to Surf or waiting for things to clear?


----------



## watfly

EOTL said:


> Is that enough @Grace T., or do you want me to keep going?
> 
> I have told all of you 100 times that I’d much prefer a place that stuck to soccer. But you can’t do it.  You and your friends bully people, you bring up politics incessantly, and then you cry like little babies when you get called out.


Guilty as charged, I've made political related comments because as I mentioned Surf Cups Fate is inextricably linked to the decisions of our politicians, right or left (right or wrong).  I apologize if you've felt bullied.  I ASSumed that if you could dish it, you could take it.  My bad.


----------



## espola

Grace T. said:


> Hey since he announced the rules, I've been good.  Like I said, happy to adhere to any rules announced....no COVID talk in the soccer forum, I'm all for that, but then let's not have COVID talk in the soccer forum.


I have lost track of how many threads, no matter what the topic, have degraded into you trying to justify your behavior.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

The SDCSARA Director of Assignments just sent an e-mail to all SD refs 45 min ago.  Doesn't look so good for Surf Cup.  Doesn't look so good for AZ's economy either.


----------



## watfly

Damn, I thought the irony was always pretty thick here, but we've reached a whole new level.


----------



## Grace T.

espola said:


> I have lost track of how many threads, no matter what the topic, have degraded into you trying to justify your behavior.


Please point to a thread where I have violated the rules and degraded into covid talk since he announced the rule change.  Like I said, Paul was the most zealous of the apostles.  Bully.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Grace T. said:


> Please point to a thread where I have violated the rules and degraded into covid talk since he announced the rule change.  Like I said, Paul was the most zealous of the apostles.  Bully.


That's because Paul did not take his own advice and drink wine in moderation. He got unruly when he had a bit to much with the big guy.


----------



## whatithink

Bruddah IZ said:


> The SDCSARA Director of Assignments just sent an e-mail to all SD refs 45 min ago.  Doesn't look so good for Surf Cup.  Doesn't look so good for AZ's economy either.


I assume they were told not to ref. Were Surf really going to ship refs out from SD?

There are more than enough local refs for large tournaments and they would all be available as there are no local or HS games on, to conflict.

Surf will have minimal impact on AZ's economy whether it goes ahead or not.


----------



## happy9

Jose has returned said:


> So if I use that logic i would never have my kid play in any sport.  That is always a risk just like going to work or getting on an airplane.


I think you are missing the point.  Today, in AZ, if you are injured and require transport to the ER, 52% of ER beds are being used by Covid Patients.

You will not be allowed to transport with your family member inside of an ambulance.  And it's likely that you will not be allowed to enter the treatment area. It's hospital dependent but you can see how much of an inconvenience getting injured right now may be.  There is a significant barrier to treatment right now in ERs - it's called the rona.  

Just some things to consider.  The logic applied to this specific scenario, by logic alone, is different than the considerations a year ago if your child was injured on the pitch.  They just are, these are the facts as we know them today.


----------



## happy9

Bruddah IZ said:


> The SDCSARA Director of Assignments just sent an e-mail to all SD refs 45 min ago.  Doesn't look so good for Surf Cup.  Doesn't look so good for AZ's economy either.


What do you think the impact of cancelling surf has on the AZ economy?


----------



## happy9

whatithink said:


> I assume they were told not to ref. Were Surf really going to ship refs out from SD?
> 
> There are more than enough local refs for large tournaments and they would all be available as there are no local or HS games on, to conflict.
> 
> *Surf will have minimal impact on AZ's economy whether it goes ahead or not.*


Cracks me up that people think  Surf is somehow going to be an economical stimulus for AZ.


----------



## EOTL

watfly said:


> While I get your point, its nearly impossible to discuss "Surf Cup's Fate" with out talking politics, since its fate is largely dependent on the non-scientific (right or left) decisions of politicians.  Now Surf would probably be wise to cancel it on its own accord, but if they want to ignore optics its perfectly legal for them to hold the tournament in certain municipalities.
> 
> I may not agree with some of Dominic's decisions, like allowing others to call out minors by name or picture (which is wholly inappropriate), but at the end of the day its his website and and we can choice to participate or not.


Actually it is easy. Don’t discuss politics. There is a huge difference between saying the Phoenix City Council voted to ban soccer games - which is a fact - and then following that up with your bizarre nonsense about how their decisions are not based on your non-scientific understanding of what science actually is, coupled with your buddies’ racist references to china virus for the pure sake of crossing the line and gratuitous commentary about greasy Gavin Newsom. 

The reality is the City of Phoenix and others are using real science and data relating to spread that accounts for reality, rather than the fantasy that U11 year olds teleport from all over the country and straight back so therefore it’s fine and the dumbs**t fathers who think it’s all a hoax don’t also go also and spread it like crazy. The idiots here are only looking at the risk on the field itself, which constitutes maybe 3% of their time traveling and in AZ. The City Council is concerned about the real risk - the other 97% and all the idiot parent superspreaders who never step onto the field. They’re looking at data about how it is transmitted in travel, at hospital and ICU usage, at current infection rates and trends, at the dangers and risks associated with large gatherings in their entirety, not whether Kaitlin gives it to Caitlyn slide tackling her. 

The City of Phoenix did what it did because it wants to keep people alive, and its actions will help. So did the City of Santa Clara. So too the entire State of CA. There is literally no legitimate argument that making it incredibly difficult for idiots like @Grace T. and @Lavey29 and @MSK357 travel to another state and do the dumb things they do to spread Covid doesn’t save lives. Maybe you’re ok with 300,000 dead people and another 3000 a day. Maybe you’re disappointed that your kid can’t play Surf Cup. But when y’all start whining that enough people aren’t dying fast enough to justify keeping Sally from lacing them up in AZ and blaming politicians for nothing more than making a decision you don’t like, you have crossed the line, and I’m here to remind you.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

happy9 said:


> What do you think the impact of cancelling surf has on the AZ economy?


Lost revenues


----------



## crush

LASTMAN14 said:


> That's because Paul did not take his own advice and drink wine in moderation. He got unruly when he had a bit to much with the big guy.


I think Paul is misunderstood.  For example, he tells us men not to get married because he has the gift or something to that effect.  So men took that low hanging fruit of scripture and caused a lot stuff over the thousand of years.  What he was really trying to say is this:  Look fellas, I have a gift you know nothing about.  I wish you had it so you wouldnt have to watch your wife get fed to wild hogs or dogs or both.  Being married before 310 AD was insane if you followed the Christ.  You were better off not getting married or having kids because Nero or some crazy ass King was pissed off.  Many beautiful followers were raped as well.  Horrible back then......


----------



## Bruddah IZ

happy9 said:


> Cracks me up that people think  Surf is somehow going to be an economical stimulus for AZ.


Stimulus is from the government and created out of thin air devaluing the dollar.  We agree.  Surf is a customer involved in a voluntary transaction beneficial to both parties.


----------



## lafalafa

Bruddah IZ said:


> The SDCSARA Director of Assignments just sent an e-mail to all SD refs 45 min ago.  Doesn't look so good for Surf Cup.  Doesn't look so good for AZ's economy either.


What do they have to do with Surf AZ? 

Not sending refs? So surf has to find local AZ ones or something?


----------



## espola

Grace T. said:


> Please point to a thread where I have violated the rules and degraded into covid talk since he announced the rule change.  Like I said, Paul was the most zealous of the apostles.  Bully.


"Hey Dominic -- is it OK to discuss politics now?"


----------



## happy9

Bruddah IZ said:


> Lost revenues


Dude, the city of scottsdale doesn't see Surf as a "revenue" driver.  It could potentially be a revenue killer. Surf is small potatoes.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

'The right thing to do': Organizers cancel soccer Shootout because of coronavirus
					

Organizers announced the tournament in October, citing multiple coronavirus-related safety precautions. On Wednesday, organizers said the decision to cancel "was just the right thing to do."




					tucson.com
				




If SurfCup can still go on, that is one impressive accomplishment.  More soccer tournaments cancelled in AZ.  See link


----------



## Grace T.

EOTL said:


> The City of Phoenix did what it did because it wants to keep people alive, and its actions will help. So did the City of Santa Clara. So too the entire State of CA. There is literally no legitimate argument that making it incredibly difficult for idiots like @Grace T. and @Lavey29 and @MSK357 travel to another state and do the dumb things they do to spread Covid doesn’t save lives. Maybe you’re ok with 300,000 dead people and another 3000 a day. Maybe you’re disappointed that your kid can’t play Surf Cup. But when y’all start whining that enough people aren’t dying fast enough to justify keeping Sally from lacing them up in AZ and blaming politicians for nothing more than making a decision you don’t like, you have crossed the line, and I’m here to remind you.


It will probably shock you to hear, but given the ER argument happy has raised, I actually agree it's not the best time to be holding tournaments. I wouldn't send my kid to a tournament while the ERs are stressed, even though he's already had it.  I respect, though, the right of others to make a different decision.



espola said:


> "Hey Dominic -- is it OK to discuss politics now?"


Best you got?  I'm pointing out a rules violation, not expressing a political opinion.


----------



## oh canada

Let's try getting this thread back on track...hate when this happens...so far EVERY club in SoCal--boys/girls-- is either withdrawing completely or withdrawing a number of their teams EXCEPT:

Blues - they will play anywhere, anytime, for any reason.  If it was Surf Calgary, they would force their families to go.  If the fields were in the middle of a brush fire, you would still hear their coaches joysticking and barking at their players to "tackle through the ball!"

Surf - mid-upper class families demand tournament results in return for their club's high fees.  You would think the doctor, lawyer, and engineer parents there would apply some of that intelligence during the absolute peak of a 100-year SoCal and AZ health crisis and tell the club execs to give it a rest this one time.  But apparently, they're too afraid of jeopardizing a future 10% college "scholarship" for their boy/girl.  I guess all their British coaches can't go home anyway over break, so why not play? (ok, i'm a little grumpy about not being able to go home w/the kids to Canada over break too)  

Any other club FULLY committed?


----------



## watfly

EOTL said:


> Actually it is easy. Don’t discuss politics. There is a huge difference between saying the Phoenix City Council voted to ban soccer games - which is a fact - and then following that up with your bizarre nonsense about how their decisions are not based on your non-scientific understanding of what science actually is, coupled with your buddies’ racist references to china virus for the pure sake of crossing the line and gratuitous commentary about greasy Gavin Newsom.
> 
> The reality is the City of Phoenix and others are using real science and data relating to spread that accounts for reality, rather than the fantasy that U11 year olds teleport from all over the country and straight back so therefore it’s fine and the dumbs**t fathers who think it’s all a hoax don’t also go also and spread it like crazy. The idiots here are only looking at the risk on the field itself, which constitutes maybe 3% of their time traveling and in AZ. The City Council is concerned about the real risk - the other 97% and all the idiot parent superspreaders who never step onto the field. They’re looking at data about how it is transmitted in travel, at hospital and ICU usage, at current infection rates and trends, at the dangers and risks associated with large gatherings in their entirety, not whether Kaitlin gives it to Caitlyn slide tackling her.
> 
> The City of Phoenix did what it did because it wants to keep people alive, and its actions will help. So did the City of Santa Clara. So too the entire State of CA. There is literally no legitimate argument that making it incredibly difficult for idiots like @Grace T. and @Lavey29 and @MSK357 travel to another state and do the dumb things they do to spread Covid doesn’t save lives. Maybe you’re ok with 300,000 dead people and another 3000 a day. Maybe you’re disappointed that your kid can’t play Surf Cup. But when y’all start whining that enough people aren’t dying fast enough to justify keeping Sally from lacing them up in AZ and blaming politicians for nothing more than making a decision you don’t like, you have crossed the line, and I’m here to remind you.


I can't help myself.  I'm appalled how our California politicians have treated our youth in direct contradiction to the science.  Maybe venting here strokes my ego.  If that makes me a bully, whiner or snowflake so be it.  I'm pissed.


----------



## Banana Hammock

Bruddah IZ said:


> The SDCSARA Director of Assignments just sent an e-mail to all SD refs 45 min ago.  Doesn't look so good for Surf Cup.  Doesn't look so good for AZ's economy either.


"To ALL,

Hopefully, you are all staying safe and healthy! Just wanted to give you all a quick small update, which is there is NO Update for Surf Cup at this time. As many of you have seen these past few weeks, much of Arizona (like CA and other states) has been shutdown. It is my understanding the city of Phoenix and Tucson have restricted ALL out of state teams from traveling to play in each of their counties. Surf Cup was due to play at the Reach 11 Complex in Phoenix but obviously, this has changed. Surf is still trying to play their dates somewhere in Arizona and is supposed to have a new location with a potential schedule for us any day. I appreciate all of the responses and emails inquiring about this tournament's status, just wanted to be upfront and honest with everyone. Once I have updated information or an official notice from Surf with any changes, you will hear from me. Until then, stay safe, wear your mask, and wash your hands! Thank you!"


----------



## Bruddah IZ

lafalafa said:


> What do they have to do with Surf AZ?
> 
> Not sending refs? So surf has to find local AZ ones or something?


Yes.  They usually travel in the opposite direction for Surf Cup


----------



## happy9

Bruddah IZ said:


> Stimulus is from the government and created out of thin air devaluing the dollar.  We agree.  Surf is a customer involved in a voluntary transaction beneficial to both parties.


Your description of economic terms is accurate.  I promise you that if Scottsdale thinks that having Surf is going to force politicians to enact more strict measures, they will dump Surf in a heart beat .  I personally think it's already happened, just hasn't been announced - I could be wrong.

  There are events in Scottsdale in JAN and FEB that are real revenue drivers.  Do the research of what historically happens in Scottsdale during those months and you will see.  In a non hysterical, non covid world, Surf is a nice add on.  With current conditions, Scottsdale will likely skip the less expensive pre-party beers at home and go straight for the Top Shelf Whisky at the club.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

espola said:


> "Hey Dominic -- is it OK to discuss politics now?"


Hahaha! Grace, you big bully, you!


----------



## paytoplay

watfly said:


> I can't help myself.  I'm appalled how our California politicians have treated our youth in direct contradiction to the science.  Maybe venting here strokes my ego.  If that makes me a bully, whiner or snowflake so be it.  I'm pissed.


Ma’am, this is a soccer forum.


----------



## dad4

watfly said:


> I can't help myself.  I'm appalled how our California politicians have treated our youth in direct contradiction to the science.  Maybe venting here strokes my ego.  If that makes me a bully, whiner or snowflake so be it.  I'm pissed.


So join Grace and me insulting each other over in the covid thread.  

You have Surf or other games lined up, or just waiting for the dust to settle?


----------



## crush

oh canada said:


> Let's try getting this thread back on track...hate when this happens...so far EVERY club in SoCal--boys/girls-- is either withdrawing completely or withdrawing a number of their teams EXCEPT:
> 
> Blues - they will play anywhere, anytime, for any reason.  If it was Surf Calgary, they would force their families to go.  If the fields were in the middle of a brush fire, you would still hear their coaches joysticking and barking at their players to "tackle through the ball!"
> 
> Surf - mid-upper class families demand tournament results in return for their club's high fees.  You would think the doctor, lawyer, and engineer parents there would apply some of that intelligence during the absolute peak of a 100-year SoCal and AZ health crisis and tell the club execs to give it a rest this one time.  But apparently, they're too afraid of jeopardizing a future 10% college "scholarship" for their boy/girl.  I guess all their British coaches can't go home anyway over break, so why not play? (ok, i'm a little grumpy about not being able to go home w/the kids to Canada over break too)
> 
> Any other club FULLY committed?


These are great takes Oh Canada.  One of your best btw.  Blues recruit a certain type of player and that player usually loves to play the game.  All in types and I'm from that cloth.  I will say mid to upper is off.  It's upper all the way teacher.  Happy is honest dad and so are many others.  I knew you always had it out for me because my dd killed at Blues and Surf.  Win win all the way home.....lol!!!  I see both sides now and actually have lived on both sides of the track.  I speak through experience with all my story telling.  Were all one big melting pot of light and love.


----------



## watfly

paytoplay said:


> Ma’am, this is a soccer forum.


I've admitted my guilt, you?  Seems to me passive-aggressive insults aren't relevant to soccer either.  If you look around I've also posted many pure soccer related posts, not rationalizing, just saying.


----------



## EOTL

Grace T. said:


> It will probably shock you to hear, but given the ER argument happy has raised, I actually agree it's not the best time to be holding tournaments. I wouldn't send my kid to a tournament while the ERs are stressed, even though he's already had it.  I respect, though, the right of others to make a different decision.
> 
> 
> 
> Best you got?  I'm pointing out a rules violation, not expressing a political opinion.


Great.  Unfortunately for the United States, however, it was fine for you to contribute to getting us to this point. How was Utah again? Really awesome of you to travel for kiddie soccer and, even worse, continue encouraging everyone else to do so right up until even you must now concede that ERs (I think you meant ICUs but whatever) are getting out of control and “it’s not the best time to be holding tournaments.”

And even better that you’re complaining now not about the people who continue to share the dangerous narrative that you supported for 10 months, but instead those who have responded to them. Do you want to remind us about how you think masks are ineffective?


----------



## oh canada

SoccerFan4Life said:


> 'The right thing to do': Organizers cancel soccer Shootout because of coronavirus
> 
> 
> Organizers announced the tournament in October, citing multiple coronavirus-related safety precautions. On Wednesday, organizers said the decision to cancel "was just the right thing to do."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tucson.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If SurfCup can still go on, that is one impressive accomplishment.  More soccer tournaments cancelled in AZ.  See link


EXACTLY (from the linked article quoting the tournament director):

"It was just the right thing to do given the current situation with COVID-19," the post said. "The health and safety of our community is first and foremost at this time."


----------



## EOTL

tjinaz said:


> A bit dated but still funny...View attachment 9589


@Grace T., how did this manage to slip through your no politics web catcher?


----------



## Grace T.

EOTL said:


> Great.  Unfortunately for the United States, however, it was fine for you to contribute to getting us to this point. How was Utah again? Really awesome of you to travel for kiddie soccer and, even worse, continue encouraging everyone else to do so right up until even you must now concede that ERs (I think you meant ICUs but whatever) are getting out of control and “it’s not the best time to be holding tournaments.”
> 
> And even better that you’re complaining now not about the people who continue to share the dangerous narrative that you supported for 10 months, but instead those who have responded to them. Do you want to remind us about how you think masks are ineffective?


Because you are attacking me directly at this point, I'll point out the ER levels in Utah over the summer versus ER levels now.  Happy's argument was tournaments have injuries....kids will be going to the ER (you probably can't ride with them and will be separated in the ER).  Not to mention that they are already stressed right now.  It's an ER argument.  If you want to argue about the effectiveness of masks or government interventions, let's take it to the off topic thread and have it...more than ready for you NitF.


----------



## happy9

oh canada said:


> EXACTLY (from the linked article quoting the tournament director):
> 
> "It was just the right thing to do given the current situation with COVID-19," the post said. "The health and safety of our community is first and foremost at this time."


Tucson and Pima county walk to the beat of their own drum.  We will see if this resonates north of Casa Grande.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

happy9 said:


> Your description of economic terms is accurate.  I promise you that if Scottsdale thinks that having Surf is going to force politicians to enact more strict measures, they will dump Surf in a heart beat .  I personally think it's already happened, just hasn't been announced - I could be wrong.
> 
> There are events in Scottsdale in JAN and FEB that are real revenue drivers.  Do the research of what historically happens in Scottsdale during those months and you will see.  In a non hysterical, non covid world, Surf is a nice add on.  With current conditions, Scottsdale will likely skip the less expensive pre-party beers at home and go straight for the Top Shelf Whisky at the club.


In a non hysterical, non covid world, Surf is a go in San Diego generating $139 million according to SDSU.  In a non hysterical, non covid world, PGA drops 100k fans on the course each day.  That's not happening this year.  I haven't been called to work the 16th hole yet.  Usually get called in November.


----------



## oh canada

EOTL said:


> @Grace T., how did this manage to slip through your no politics web catcher?


@EOTL C'mon man - this thread is too important to water it down with a personal pissing match.  Especially since we agree that Surf is crazy for holding this tournament!  Just take it to another thread plz.


----------



## watfly

dad4 said:


> So join Grace and me insulting each other over in the covid thread.
> 
> You have Surf or other games lined up, or just waiting for the dust to settle?


Ha, ha, valid recommendation.  Actually I think you're both above the insults you've been hurling over there.  I like to poke fun, but I try to avoid the ad hominem or nasty name calling.  Please, call me out if I do.

We weren't entered in Surf, just Nomads, which was canceled.  Not sure I would attend anyway, it would be nice for seniors to play but I just don't see at this point how a club could justify going.  Surf cancelling is the right decision (no matter how much I want a middle finger to restrictions on our youth).  Moot point since my son was diagnosed with Osgood-Schlatter yesterday, (although I suspected for weeks).  Not what you want to hear, but good timing given the circumstances.

So advice from anyone on dealing with O-S is appreciated.  I realize its more of a pain management issue than anything else.  I had it 40 years ago and they put me in cast from ankle to hip.  Treatment has obviously evolved.


----------



## EOTL

oh canada said:


> @EOTL C'mon man - this thread is too important to water it down with a personal pissing match.  Especially since we agree that Surf is crazy for holding this tournament!  Just take it to another thread plz.


Sounds good. I promise to hold off for the 5 minutes it will take someone to continue derailing it.


----------



## oh canada

EOTL said:


> Sounds good. I promise to hold off for the 5 minutes it will take someone to continue derailing it.


Thank you!  @Grace T. please do the same.  I think at this point the three of us are aligned on this important issue of Surf Cup.  Let's not lose focus here.


----------



## happy9

Bruddah IZ said:


> In a non hysterical, non covid world, Surf is a go in San Diego generating *$139 million* according to SDSU.  In a non hysterical, non covid world, PGA drops 100k fans on the course each day.  That's not happening this year.  I haven't been called to work the 16th hole yet.  Usually get called in November.


And those are good $$$.  Surf is  generally concentrated in and around the SD area.  Surf in AZ will not go that route.  There will be fields all over the valley, in different cities.

Scottsdale is looking at $400M for the Phoenix Open and $169M for Barret-Jackson.  There are other events in JAN (Arabian Horse show).  My point is that Surf has an uphill battle trying to prove that the numbers work for the City of Scottsdale.  They don't work.  Without the City of Scottsdale fields, Surf is hard pressed to claim this a top shelf event played on world class fields.  These are the only ones left..


----------



## oh canada

happy9 said:


> And those are good $$$.  Surf is  generally concentrated in and around the SD area.  Surf in AZ will not go that route.  There will be fields all over the valley, in different cities.
> 
> Scottsdale is looking at $400M for the Phoenix Open and $169M for Barret-Jackson.  There are other events in JAN (Arabian Horse show).  My point is that Surf has an uphill battle trying to prove that the numbers work for the City of Scottsdale.  They don't work.  Without the City of Scottsdale fields, Surf is hard pressed to claim this as an showcase style event played on great fields.  These are the only ones left..


fyi, i don't think PGA is allowing spectators at any events any time soon.  Just like 2020, it's PGA's call not the individual states'.  Definitely not Q1 2021.


----------



## Lavey29

EOTL said:


> Actually it is easy. Don’t discuss politics. There is a huge difference between saying the Phoenix City Council voted to ban soccer games - which is a fact - and then following that up with your bizarre nonsense about how their decisions are not based on your non-scientific understanding of what science actually is, coupled with your buddies’ racist references to china virus for the pure sake of crossing the line and gratuitous commentary about greasy Gavin Newsom.
> 
> The reality is the City of Phoenix and others are using real science and data relating to spread that accounts for reality, rather than the fantasy that U11 year olds teleport from all over the country and straight back so therefore it’s fine and the dumbs**t fathers who think it’s all a hoax don’t also go also and spread it like crazy. The idiots here are only looking at the risk on the field itself, which constitutes maybe 3% of their time traveling and in AZ. The City Council is concerned about the real risk - the other 97% and all the idiot parent superspreaders who never step onto the field. They’re looking at data about how it is transmitted in travel, at hospital and ICU usage, at current infection rates and trends, at the dangers and risks associated with large gatherings in their entirety, not whether Kaitlin gives it to Caitlyn slide tackling her.
> 
> The City of Phoenix did what it did because it wants to keep people alive, and its actions will help. So did the City of Santa Clara. So too the entire State of CA. There is literally no legitimate argument that making it incredibly difficult for idiots like @Grace T. and @Lavey29 and @MSK357 travel to another state and do the dumb things they do to spread Covid doesn’t save lives. Maybe you’re ok with 300,000 dead people and another 3000 a day. Maybe you’re disappointed that your kid can’t play Surf Cup. But when y’all start whining that enough people aren’t dying fast enough to justify keeping Sally from lacing them up in AZ and blaming politicians for nothing more than making a decision you don’t like, you have crossed the line, and I’m here to remind you.


You are one wierd sheep Ewok. Is it true you have NO kids at playing soccer at all yet you type your nonsense on here and all over the other forums here 24/7. I know you are angry and extremely disappointed the Surf cup is on and parents are excited to see their kids compete.  I think the  parents are just as excited and happy as our kids are to take the pitch. All my kids games will be 4K video so just say the word and I'll send you the links so you can watch some great soccer play. I think if you just relax with a cocktail and turn the lights down inside the bubble you would really enjoy watching the kids play the sport they love. Your posts are becoming extremely bitter and angry and I'm concerned about your mental well being and feel I can do a crisis intervention and make your day just a little better in the bubble.


----------



## happy9

oh canada said:


> fyi, i don't think PGA is allowing spectators at any events any time soon.  Just like 2020, it's PGA's call not the individual states'.  Definitely not Q1 2021.


They will certainly be challenged.  This event is people driven and not necessarily "golf" driven.


----------



## espola

Grace T. said:


> It will probably shock you to hear, but given the ER argument happy has raised, I actually agree it's not the best time to be holding tournaments. I wouldn't send my kid to a tournament while the ERs are stressed, even though he's already had it.  I respect, though, the right of others to make a different decision.
> 
> 
> 
> Best you got?  I'm pointing out a rules violation, not expressing a political opinion.







__





						Surf Cup's Fate
					

https://tucson.com/sports/local/coronavirus-forces-cancellation-of-southern-arizonas-largest-youth-soccer-tournament/article_0032406d-e32b-5b36-9672-e2df0ec9e2bc.html  If SurfCup can still go on, that is one impressive accomplishment.  More soccer tournaments cancelled in AZ.  See link



					www.socalsoccer.com


----------



## EOTL

Lavey29 said:


> You are one wierd sheep Ewok. Is it true you have NO kids at playing soccer at all yet you type your nonsense on here and all over the other forums here 24/7. I know you are angry and extremely disappointed the Surf cup is on and parents are excited to see their kids compete.  I think the  parents are just as excited and happy as our kids are to take the pitch. All my kids games will be 4K video so just say the word and I'll send you the links so you can watch some great soccer play. I think if you just relax with a cocktail and turn the lights down inside the bubble you would really enjoy watching the kids play the sport they love. Your posts are becoming extremely bitter and angry and I'm concerned about your mental well being and feel I can do a crisis intervention and make your day just a little better in the bubble.


22 minutes @oh canada...

I’m sure you’re thrilled that your daughter’s team will be one of the two that haven’t backed out. They will finally make the finals of a tournament! 

And so great that your daughter’s game will be streamed. Has anyone here ever heard of such a thing?


----------



## Lavey29

EOTL said:


> 22 minutes @oh canada...
> 
> I’m sure you’re thrilled that your daughter’s team will be one of the two that haven’t backed out. They will finally make the finals of a tournament!
> 
> And so great that your daughter’s game will be streamed. Has anyone here ever heard of such a thing?


By the way, I'm typing from my hospital bed after my surgery.  I can tell you with absolute certainty  that the hospital is far from overcrowded. Actually winning tournaments is not high priority in my opinion.  I tell my daughter that development is key. Focus on becoming a better all around player. Be consistent in your strengths and really focus on improving your weaknesses during the match. My kid can really ball  but like all players professional and amateur,  there is always room for improvement.  Set the bar and work hard to get there then move the bar up to more notches. The competition will be great at surf cup. Lots of ECNL teams and even GA coming in for the cup. I still want to help you out because I actually feel sorry for you. So just let me know and we can start the crisis intervention before it's to late...


----------



## Calisoccer11

Jose has returned said:


> So if I use that logic i would never have my kid play in any sport.  That is always a risk just like going to work or getting on an airplane.


You are clearly just thinking about yourself.  My point is, if God forbid anything would happen, you would be taking your kid to an AZ hospital which is already overburdened.  I'm thinking about the residents of AZ and the healthcare workers there that have enough on their plate without having some selfish asshole from CA come in and play in a meaningless tournament.  Do you get that or do you need further explanation?


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> And so great that your daughter’s game will be streamed. Has anyone here ever heard of such a thing?


Happens ALL the time....as recently as the ECNL Showcase in November, you know, the one where a thousand or so games were played with no outbreaks.


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> By the way, I'm typing from my hospital bed after my surgery.  I can tell you with absolute certainty  that the hospital is far from overcrowded. Actually winning tournaments is not high priority in my opinion.  I tell my daughter that development is key. Focus on becoming a better all around player. Be consistent in your strengths and really focus on improving your weaknesses during the match. My kid can really ball  but like all players professional and amateur,  there is always room for improvement.  Set the bar and work hard to get there then move the bar up to more notches. The competition will be great at surf cup. Lots of ECNL teams and even GA coming in for the cup. I still want to help you out because I actually feel sorry for you. So just let me know and we can start the crisis intervention before it's to late...


Get well soon.

Let's be honest though, If surf happens, it will be a watered down event.  Lots of ECNL and GA teams are not coming.  I suppose others will follow suit.  There may be enough team attrition at this point that 1 or 2 mediocre facilities will suffice.


----------



## Calisoccer11

happy9 said:


> I think you are missing the point.  Today, in AZ, if you are injured and require transport to the ER, 52% of ER beds are being used by Covid Patients.
> 
> You will not be allowed to transport with your family member inside of an ambulance.  And it's likely that you will not be allowed to enter the treatment area. It's hospital dependent but you can see how much of an inconvenience getting injured right now may be.  There is a significant barrier to treatment right now in ERs - it's called the rona.
> 
> Just some things to consider.  The logic applied to this specific scenario, by logic alone, is different than the considerations a year ago if your child was injured on the pitch.  They just are, these are the facts as we know them today.


Thank you for spelling it out for this dude.


----------



## ITFC Blues

happy9 said:


> Get well soon.
> 
> Let's be honest though, If surf happens, it will be a watered down event.  Lots of ECNL and GA teams are not coming.  I suppose others will follow suit.  There may be enough team attrition at this point that 1 or 2 mediocre facilities will suffice.


Greater Sacramento goes into Regional Stay at home midnight tomorrow night so I would expect any remaining Sacramento area teams to drop out.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

happy9 said:


> And those are good $$$.  Surf is  generally concentrated in and around the SD area.  Surf in AZ will not go that route.  There will be fields all over the valley, in different cities.
> 
> Scottsdale is looking at $400M for the Phoenix Open and $169M for Barret-Jackson.  There are other events in JAN (Arabian Horse show).  My point is that Surf has an uphill battle trying to prove that the numbers work for the City of Scottsdale.  They don't work.  Without the City of Scottsdale fields, Surf is hard pressed to claim this a top shelf event played on world class fields.  These are the only ones left..


Someone gave Surf Cup Sports the go ahead.  I assume it made $ense to do so given that the aforementioned events will not generate the same revenues.


----------



## EOTL

Lavey29 said:


> By the way, I'm typing from my hospital bed after my surgery.  I can tell you with absolute certainty  that the hospital is far from overcrowded. Actually winning tournaments is not high priority in my opinion.  I tell my daughter that development is key. Focus on becoming a better all around player. Be consistent in your strengths and really focus on improving your weaknesses during the match. My kid can really ball  but like all players professional and amateur,  there is always room for improvement.  Set the bar and work hard to get there then move the bar up to more notches. The competition will be great at surf cup. Lots of ECNL teams and even GA coming in for the cup. I still want to help you out because I actually feel sorry for you. So just let me know and we can start the crisis intervention before it's to late...


That’s so great that you’re in CA, where the death rate is currently 38 out of 50, and the lowest of any state with a major city.  Not so great in Phoenix these days. https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/local-hospitals-having-a-hard-time-with-icu-bed-capacity-and-staffing-amid-new-covid-19-surge

Let me know if your kid ever makes it onto the Pac-12 Network. Because, as @crush can attest, there is a very real chance that a baller at 11 will not be quite the same baller relative to her peers at 14, let alone 18.


----------



## happy9

Bruddah IZ said:


> Someone gave Surf Cup Sports the go ahead.  I assume it made $ense to do so given that the aforementioned events will not generate the same revenues.


Yep, someone approved it.  Conditions in AZ and CA have changed.  Stuff is being cancelled left and right.  ICU beds have filled up and politicians are getting antsy.


----------



## EOTL

Kicker4Life said:


> Happens ALL the time....as recently as the ECNL Showcase in November, you know, the one where a thousand or so games were played with no outbreaks.


IKR. All the testing of daddies and contact tracing at the ECNL event was really helpful.


----------



## Jose has returned

happy9 said:


> I think you are missing the point.  Today, in AZ, if you are injured and require transport to the ER, 52% of ER beds are being used by Covid Patients.
> 
> You will not be allowed to transport with your family member inside of an ambulance.  And it's likely that you will not be allowed to enter the treatment area. It's hospital dependent but you can see how much of an inconvenience getting injured right now may be.  There is a significant barrier to treatment right now in ERs - it's called the rona.
> 
> Just some things to consider.  The logic applied to this specific scenario, by logic alone, is different than the considerations a year ago if your child was injured on the pitch.  They just are, these are the facts as we know them today.


yes, i have considered that.  I would travel with my player in a ambulance I would drive my own car so that I have a ride home.


Calisoccer11 said:


> You are clearly just thinking about yourself.  My point is, if God forbid anything would happen, you would be taking your kid to an AZ hospital which is already overburdened.  I'm thinking about the residents of AZ and the healthcare workers there that have enough on their plate without having some selfish asshole from CA come in and play in a meaningless tournament.  Do you get that or do you need further explanation?


please explain more


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> That’s so great that you’re in CA, where the death rate is currently 38 out of 50, and the lowest of any state with a major city.  Not so great in Phoenix these days. https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/local-hospitals-having-a-hard-time-with-icu-bed-capacity-and-staffing-amid-new-covid-19-surge
> 
> *Let me know if your kid ever makes it onto the Pac-12 Network.* Because, as @crush can attest, there is a *very real chance *that a baller at *11 will not be quite the same baller relative to her peers at 14, let alone 18.*


I agree but more like 13, not 11.  When the adults  _________________________and___________________________________ its best to be a kid and just play with your friends and not fly all over the country believing the lies.  She made the right call and she is skipping all this and going pro in Greece or France in 2022. You & Canada can have college.   Skip the power 5 and go pro, bro   Get real brother EOTLespola.....lol


----------



## Jose has returned

Calisoccer11 said:


> Thank you for spelling it out for this dude.


who do you think you are?  you don't know anything about me or my situation.  quit your virtual signaling and sit down. The AZ residents don't know who you are or give a crap about you. Go back into your bubble and stay there until you are told to come out. I'll be in AZ.  Ill bet I don't even get covid or spread it?   how much would you like to wager?   put up or shut up


----------



## Glitterhater

Ha! This thread is allll politics now


----------



## happy9

Glitterhater said:


> Ha! This thread is allll politics now


Just tell me who thinks they are still coming!! And why do they think that?  Insider info??


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> Get well soon.
> 
> Let's be honest though, If surf happens, it will be a watered down event.  Lots of ECNL and GA teams are not coming.  I suppose others will follow suit.  There may be enough team attrition at this point that 1 or 2 mediocre facilities will suffice.


Absolutely agree it appears some teams decided not to go. I know a lot of teams applied and did get accepted,  perhaps they will get contacted again by Surf and accepted now. 

I guess we will have wait till they post the schedule to see what teams are in. I do know ECNL and GA teams are going to play. I wonder if most of the teams that changed their mind are youngers? Seems like older teams who are juniors and seniors might be more inclined to go even if the amount of coaches there may not be the usual number. Also it's good for the olders to get some video highlights for their perspective college coaches to view.


----------



## dad4

Lavey29 said:


> Absolutely agree it appears some teams decided not to go. I know a lot of teams applied and did get accepted,  perhaps they will get contacted again by Surf and accepted now.
> 
> I guess we will have wait till they post the schedule to see what teams are in. I do know ECNL and GA teams are going to play. I wonder if most of the teams that changed their mind are youngers? Seems like older teams who are juniors and seniors might be more inclined to go even if the amount of coaches there may not be the usual number. Also it's good for the olders to get some video highlights for their perspective college coaches to view.


 Quite a few GA and ECNL teams have dropped already.    I think the list from this thread is : Davis, Mustang, Thorns, Slammers, Beach, Quakes.   Maybe more.

Do you know of anyone other than Blues and Surf who are definitely going?


----------



## paytoplay

Is it November 4 yet? Can’t wait for these unnecessary lockdowns to end...


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> Absolutely agree it appears some teams decided not to go. I know a lot of teams applied and did get accepted,  perhaps they will get contacted again by Surf and accepted now.
> 
> I guess we will have wait till they post the schedule to see what teams are in. I do know ECNL and GA teams are going to play. I wonder if most of the teams that changed their mind are youngers? Seems like older teams who are juniors and seniors might be more inclined to go even if the amount of coaches there may not be the usual number. Also it's good for the olders to get some video highlights for their perspective college coaches to view.


I will say this, after speaking with local college coaches post ECNL AZ showcase ---> The streaming video wasn't very good.  Depending on the platform used (I'm no expert), they recommend cutting up highlights and sending.  They did dedicate hours to watching the live stream but their feedback was that it was very hard to watch and very easy to not pay attention.   There were plenty of D2/D3/NAIA coaches on the sideline for the ECNL AZ event.  I would guess there are going to be less in attendance this time around.  

Unfortunately Un-committed or unseen 2021s and 22s are in a bad spot.  Time to crank up the email and youtube machine for coach/program outreach.  

The current fate of players will not influence decisions made by the city of scottsdale and others.  It will be a central tenet of Surf's argument for moving forward with the tournament.


----------



## notintheface

Kicker4Life said:


> Just have 2 VERY disappointed DD’s as they both need fresh footage for recruiting purposes.


Some advice-- don't let them be too disappointed, college coaches this year are (mostly) not demanding 2020 game footage. A simple discussion will get you squared away. Help them keep their grades up and that will do much more for their prospects than a few minutes of working in a rusty environment.


----------



## LASTMAN14

happy9 said:


> I will say this, after speaking with local college coaches post ECNL AZ showcase ---> The streaming video wasn't very good.  Depending on the platform used (I'm no expert), they recommend cutting up highlights and sending.  They did dedicate hours to watching the live stream but their feedback was that it was very hard to watch and very easy to not pay attention.   There were plenty of D2/D3/NAIA coaches on the sideline for the ECNL AZ event.  I would guess there are going to be less in attendance this time around.
> 
> Unfortunately Un-committed or unseen 2021s and 22s are in a bad spot.  Time to crank up the email and youtube machine for coach/program outreach.
> 
> The current fate of players will not influence decisions made by the city of scottsdale and others.  It will be a central tenet of Surf's argument for moving forward with the tournament.


Under these circumstances those privately paid for showcases may be worth a look at for film. However, some may still shy away because of the location.


----------



## notintheface

Bruddah IZ said:


> Lost revenues


Come on man, it would take a Surf Cup every single day for ten years to even get to 1% of Arizona's net GDP. Let's not delude ourselves with the real economic impact of one tournament.


----------



## notintheface

Glitterhater said:


> Ha! This thread is allll politics now


I started drinking on this thread two weeks ago


----------



## Lavey29

dad4 said:


> Quite a few GA and ECNL teams have dropped already.    I think the list from this thread is : Davis, Mustang, Thorns, Slammers, Beach, Quakes.   Maybe more.
> 
> Do you know of anyone other than Blues and Surf who are definitely going?


What about legends, strikers, arsenal,  rebels  etc.....


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> I will say this, after speaking with local college coaches post ECNL AZ showcase ---> The streaming video wasn't very good.  Depending on the platform used (I'm no expert), they recommend cutting up highlights and sending.  They did dedicate hours to watching the live stream but their feedback was that it was very hard to watch and very easy to not pay attention.   There were plenty of D2/D3/NAIA coaches on the sideline for the ECNL AZ event.  I would guess there are going to be less in attendance this time around.
> 
> Unfortunately Un-committed or unseen 2021s and 22s are in a bad spot.  Time to crank up the email and youtube machine for coach/program outreach.
> 
> The current fate of players will not influence decisions made by the city of scottsdale and others.  It will be a central tenet of Surf's argument for moving forward with the tournament.


The game footage we get is clear 4k not live stream. Very good for creating highlight video clips. My kid will email her college preferences coach with game schedule and invite them to watch but if they cant do that she will send them highlight clip.


----------



## happy9

LASTMAN14 said:


> Under these circumstances those privately paid for showcases may be worth a look at for film. However, some may still shy away because of the location.


No doubt.  It's also what Surf is banking on in order maintain interest.  It's an unfortunate situation for all, especially if CA players don't have a clear pathway to commence play.  They will be the collateral damage in all of this.  There is good enough reason to NOT hold Surf.  It won't soothe the feelings of players who are determined to play at the next level and were hoping to leverage a Surf event to help them get there.  If you have an ECNL player, at least you have film from the fall season and from the showcase.   If you have a GA player, you also have film from this past season.  Both leagues are doing a decent job elevating and endorsing video on their players behalf.


----------



## socalkdg

Jose has returned said:


> So if I use that logic i would never have my kid play in any sport.  That is always a risk just like going to work or getting on an airplane.


Only broken bone for my kid was on the jungle gym at school.   Guess recess is out as well.   Broken bone was a blessing as it steered my daughter away from baseball and had her try soccer.


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> IKR. All the testing of daddies and contact tracing at the ECNL event was really helpful.


Still haven’t found anything huh.....gotta sting just a little.


----------



## Kicker4Life

notintheface said:


> Some advice-- don't let them be too disappointed, college coaches this year are (mostly) not demanding 2020 game footage. A simple discussion will get you squared away. Help them keep their grades up and that will do much more for their prospects than a few minutes of working in a rusty environment.


Both have solid grades are doing volunteer work when and where possible and continue to train multiple times a week. My oldest was watching NCAA games of the schools she’s been interested in and emailing the Coaches about what she saw in each game.  

Tough words for her to swallow as she watched friends play in the Showcase in November and the one in SC recently.  “Lots of other kids Are getting footage...blah blah”.   This to will pass, just not easy navigating with 2 teenage DD’s.


----------



## EOTL

happy9 said:


> I will say this, after speaking with local college coaches post ECNL AZ showcase ---> The streaming video wasn't very good.  Depending on the platform used (I'm no expert), they recommend cutting up highlights and sending.  They did dedicate hours to watching the live stream but their feedback was that it was very hard to watch and very easy to not pay attention.   There were plenty of D2/D3/NAIA coaches on the sideline for the ECNL AZ event.  I would guess there are going to be less in attendance this time around.
> 
> Unfortunately Un-committed or unseen 2021s and 22s are in a bad spot.  Time to crank up the email and youtube machine for coach/program outreach.
> 
> The current fate of players will not influence decisions made by the city of scottsdale and others.  It will be a central tenet of Surf's argument for moving forward with the tournament.


This all does suck for many 2021s and 22s. For many years I have recommended the benefits of playing for one of those few coaches (I think I actually coined the term “queenmaker”) who have real connections and whose recommendation to a college coach is as good as gold.

Even for 2023s and later, there is a significant risk that your kid will not be “found” given the highly uncertain status of the youth soccer landscape right now. If you want to take your chances as one of the thousands sending unsolicited emails with cute videos, and playing for a small club with a coach who goes to voicemail when he calls Radcliffe, Cromwell or anyone, go for it. But you know for sure that with the likes of Baker in the south and Deza in the north, a single phone call is all it takes. That’s it. Your kid gets to play anywhere they want if they’re good enough.


----------



## Bruddah IZ

notintheface said:


> Come on man, it would take a Surf Cup every single day for ten years to even get to 1% of Arizona's net GDP. Let's not delude ourselves with the real economic impact of one tournament.


Lol! You wanna compare state GDP to one soccer tournament?  Okay lets annualize their economic impact.  It's actually 2%.....a year.


----------



## Glitterhater

Kicker4Life said:


> Both have solid grades are doing volunteer work when and where possible and continue to train multiple times a week. My oldest was watching NCAA games of the schools she’s been interested in and emailing the Coaches about what she saw in each game.
> 
> Tough words for her to swallow as she watched friends play in the Showcase in November and the one in SC recently.  “Lots of other kids Are getting footage...blah blah”.   This to will pass, just not easy navigating with 2 teenage DD’s.


NOTHING is easy with teenage girls, I feel you!


----------



## GT45

Happy9 we get it. You do not want the Surf Cup to happen. Can you take your pessimistic attitude off these boards. There are plenty of top ECNL clubs going to Surf. A handful of clubs out of So Cal not attending is hardly a big deal. Coaches are recruiting off of video. You are such a downer on this post. Your username is ironic.


----------



## dad4

EOTL said:


> This all does suck for many 2021s and 22s. For many years I have recommended the benefits of playing for one of those few coaches (I think I actually coined the term “queenmaker”) who have real connections and whose recommendation to a college coach is as good as gold.
> 
> Even for 2023s and later, there is a significant risk that your kid will not be “found” given the highly uncertain status of the youth soccer landscape right now. If you want to take your chances as one of the thousands sending unsolicited emails with cute videos, and playing for a small club with a coach who goes to voicemail when he calls Radcliffe, Cromwell or anyone, go for it. But you know for sure that with the likes of Baker in the south and Deza in the north, a single phone call is all it takes. That’s it. Your kid gets to play anywhere they want if they’re good enough.


Nice sales pitch.

What was your club's ratio of ACL tears to P5 letters of intent last year?  

3 to 1?  4 to 1?  Don't want to think about it because it's too embarassing? 

Don't weasel out.  U13 and up.  Total surgeries versus total P5 scholarships.  How'd you do?


----------



## full90

There is no club coach who is a queen maker. That’s ridiculous to say. There’s no div 1 coach who is taking a phone call from any club coach as gospel. Zero. That’s crazy talk.
A club coach can say hey “I’ve got a player to check out” or “i’ve got a good one who is interested” but that’s it. And that’s true whether your club is a blue blood or a smaller one.

But no college coach is taking the word of a club coach to make an offer. Cromwell is not taking bakers word for it. That’s insane to suggest.


----------



## EOTL

full90 said:


> There is no club coach who is a queen maker. That’s ridiculous to say. There’s no div 1 coach who is taking a phone call from any club coach as gospel. Zero. That’s crazy talk.
> A club coach can say hey “I’ve got a player to check out” or “i’ve got a good one who is interested” but that’s it. And that’s true whether your club is a blue blood or a smaller one.
> 
> But no college coach is taking the word of a club coach to make an offer. Cromwell is not taking bakers word for it. That’s insane to suggest.


I can tell you with 100% certainty and personal knowledge that you are wrong. But that is what people on the outside like to think to make themselves feel better. Carry on with the emails and iMovie. It is such a joke to see people suggest that is the way when it could pretty much be wrapped up with a phone call.


----------



## Calisoccer11

Jose has returned said:


> who do you think you are?  you don't know anything about me or my situation.  quit your virtual signaling and sit down. The AZ residents don't know who you are or give a crap about you. Go back into your bubble and stay there until you are told to come out. I'll be in AZ.  Ill bet I don't even get covid or spread it?   how much would you like to wager?   put up or shut up


lmao!!  Where did I say anything about the AZ residents caring about my opinion?  What exactly would we be wagering?  I'm glad you are so triggered - maybe I have given you something to think about - you know, someone other than yourself?  I wouldn't wish any harm to your DD or wish Covid on you.  Again, I think you are missing the point but you go on and do you!!!  Don't worry about the risk to the healthcare workers if God forbid something happens.  God Bless!!


----------



## notintheface

Bruddah IZ said:


> Lol! You wanna compare state GDP to one soccer tournament?  Okay lets annualize their economic impact.  It's actually 2%.....a year.


There is no way it's that high, sorry. Show your work.


----------



## Jose has returned

Calisoccer11 said:


> lmao!!  Where did I say anything about the AZ residents caring about my opinion?  What exactly would we be wagering?  I'm glad you are so triggered - maybe I have given you something to think about - you know, someone other than yourself?  I wouldn't wish any harm to your DD or wish Covid on you.  Again, I think you are missing the point but you go on and do you!!!  Don't worry about the risk to the healthcare workers if God forbid something happens.  God Bless!!


Seriously? "..... I'm thinking about the residents of AZ and the healthcare workers there"......duh right there.  the rest of your passive aggressive nonsense is worthless


----------



## Speed

Lavey29 said:


> What about legends, strikers, arsenal,  rebels  etc.....


strikers out


----------



## notintheface

Kicker4Life said:


> My oldest was watching NCAA games of the schools she’s been interested in and emailing the Coaches about what she saw in each game.


I get you-- it sucks. But that email she sent is way more valuable than Surf footage.


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> This all does suck for many 2021s and 22s. For many years I have recommended the benefits of playing for one of those few coaches (I think I actually coined the term “queenmaker”) who have real connections and whose recommendation to a college coach is as good as gold.
> 
> Even for 2023s and later, there is a significant risk that your kid will not be “found” given the highly uncertain status of the youth soccer landscape right now. I*f you want to take your chances as one of the thousands sending unsolicited emails with cute videos, and playing for a small club with a coach who goes to voicemail when he calls Radcliffe, Cromwell or anyone, go for it. But you know for sure that with the likes of Baker in the south and Deza in the north, a single phone call is all it takes. That’s it. Your kid gets to play anywhere they want if they’re good enough.*


This is spot on bro.  I thought ((I thought wrong too)) that they would see how gr8t #8 was and they would be a line of coaches at my car trying to talk it up with her old man.  Kind of the Lonza of club soccer.


----------



## Calisoccer11

Jose has returned said:


> Seriously? "..... I'm thinking about the residents of AZ and the healthcare workers there"......duh right there.  the rest of your passive aggressive nonsense is worthless


LOL - okay dude


----------



## EOTL

EOTL said:


> I can tell you with 100% certainty and personal knowledge that you are wrong. But that is what people on the outside like to think to make themselves feel better. Carry on with the emails and iMovie. It is such a joke to see people suggest that is the way when it could pretty much be wrapped up with a phone call.


In fact, let me tell you how it goes @full90. A coach with real cred sits you down and asks you what you’re looking for in college, what schools you’re interested in, how important the money situation is, whether your grades will cut it if you’re interested in Ivy especially, and then tells you what schools are a fit based on your ability, skill set, and the other factors discussed. If he thinks your ability level is a fit, they make the call. You’re 90% there and all you need to do is not screw it up. It is that easy. College coaches know the likes of Baker and Deza do not oversell their players. They know Baker and Deza have a very good idea what they want.

Good luck doing it the hard way! What catchy re: lines are you putting into your unsolicited emails these days? What super hip music are y’all putting into the background of your iMovie videos? How does your kid stand out in all the voicemails they leave? So curious.


----------



## happy9

GT45 said:


> Happy9 we get it. You do not want the Surf Cup to happen. Can you take your pessimistic attitude off these boards. There are plenty of top ECNL clubs going to Surf. A handful of clubs out of So Cal not attending is hardly a big deal. Coaches are recruiting off of video. You are such a downer on this post. Your username is ironic.


You don't get me at all.  Review my post history, I'm as pro play as they come and certainly anti lockdown.  I'm offering an opinion and insight to the AZ landscape. I'm a pragmatist, not a pessimist.  Take a peak out our local headlines and our Covid #s.  Regardless of your virus views, government are going to be forced to act.  I'm also a business owner, there are many like me.  The virus winds are shifting the wrong way, and we know where that leads, just take a look at your state and the status of your local businesses.  Maybe you are in a virus proof industry, many are not.  While I don't subscribe to the hysterics of rona politics, I do acknowledge the potential effect of fear policy and realize I don't have much control over what is enacted.  Thus I'm sensitive to what I think is irrational reactionary behavior by adults.  It's like walking into the proverbial burning house.

I*N MY OPINION* - This is the wrong time to host an event that is going to attract negative national media at a time when the virus seems to be racing out of control in our state.  Again, I'm not hysterical about infections rates, our fatality rates are falling.  I would be a little miffed if my business and others are shut down because little johnny and sally had to get some game video in.  Come back in FEB, hopefully by then we've settled this rona thing down a bit.  

If you don't like to read what I have to say then hit the ignore button.  Good thing about being an American is that we have the freedom to make choices.  If you don't like what I am saying, scroll it along.


----------



## EOTL

crush said:


> This is spot on bro.  I thought ((I thought wrong too)) that they would see how gr8t #8 was and they would be a line of coaches at my car trying to talk it up with her old man.  Kind of the Lonza of club soccer.


I am very glad that you don’t believe it is all just God’s will.


----------



## happy9

EOTL said:


> I can tell you with 100% certainty and personal knowledge that you are wrong. But that is what people on the outside like to think to make themselves feel better. Carry on with the emails and iMovie. It is such a joke to see people suggest that is the way when it could pretty much be wrapped up with a phone call.


I will say the % of kids who benefit from direct line coaches are very low.  What you describe exists, but only for the very few.  Most do the email and Imovie things.  And please don't throw P5 into the mix.  Many kids won't see the light of day at a P5 school.  Most will send an email with video highlights to 20 schools and cross their fingers that someone notices.


----------



## happy9

GT45 said:


> Happy9 we get it. You do not want the Surf Cup to happen. Can you take your pessimistic attitude off these boards. There are plenty of top ECNL clubs going to Surf. A handful of clubs out of So Cal not attending is hardly a big deal. Coaches are recruiting off of video. You are such a downer on this post. Your username is ironic.


For the most part, you don't get it.  Here is another potential nail in the coffin for Surf.  Peoria is a rather conservative city, anti lockdown, and pro business.  I don't know the details, but I'm sure Surf asked about Peoria fields, they have a few really nice facilities that have been used this year for State League and by the DA in the past.  They also are hoping that Spring training, down the road, happens.  They are insulating themselves.

Sometimes it's better to abide by the *Should VS Could principle*. We will see what happens.









						Peoria closes community center, halts city activities as COVID-19 cases rise
					

The city of Peoria is closing certain city facilities and activities in response a surge of coronavirus cases around the state.




					ktar.com


----------



## Letsbreal

dad4 said:


> Quite a few GA and ECNL teams have dropped already.    I think the list from this thread is : Davis, Mustang, Thorns, Slammers, Beach, Quakes.   Maybe more.
> 
> Do you know of anyone other than Blues and Surf who are definitely going?


Blues 06 ECNL isn’t going


----------



## TOSDCI

EOTL said:


> Is that enough @Grace T., or do you want me to keep going?
> 
> I have told all of you 100 times that I’d much prefer a place that stuck to soccer. But you can’t do it.  You and your friends bully people, you bring up politics incessantly, and then you cry like little babies when you get called out.


Those in glass houses.....


----------



## dad4

A quick look at college rosters will tell you whether coaches rely on phone calls instead of scouts.  You will see a mix of players from different clubs.  Tells you all you need to know about "queenmakers".

EOTL is just a salesman selling his snake oil.


----------



## oh canada

Letsbreal said:


> Blues 06 ECNL isn’t going


I take back my Blues stereotype rant a few pages ago.  You proved me wrong.  Hopefully, your comrades' teams are as enlightened.  Thanks for posting.


----------



## Kicker4Life

notintheface said:


> I get you-- it sucks. But that email she sent is way more valuable than Surf footage.


She’s done well trying to be creative. With no more NCAA games she’s feeling a bit lost as to what to do next.  Hopefully Jan/Feb will give both the opportunity to exercise their competitive demons and by March get some footage together.


----------



## oh canada

Lavey29 said:


> What about legends, strikers, arsenal,  rebels  etc.....


All of those clubs, at the very least, are withdrawing teams


----------



## Chalklines

James Harden needing 6 negative tests before the NBA clears him to practice.

Not a chance he partied hard like these club parents did in AZ Thanksgiving weekend who then plopped their kids off back in school monday morning with no testing.


----------



## happy9

Letsbreal said:


> Blues 06 ECNL isn’t going


I likely missed many NW conference ECNL teams

Convoluted view of AZ ECNL/GA teams.  Have heard both AZ ECNL clubs have pulled out but have zero confirmation.  Both GA clubs are holding tight as of this week.

On the upside, there will be clubs who will benefit from these teams not showing up.


Updated count:
West Coast (GA/ECRL)
Slammers (ECNL)
LAFC (ECNL)
Blues 06 (ECNL

Thorns(ECNL)
Davis (ECNL)
Mustangs (ECNL)
MVLA (ECNL)


----------



## Glitterhater

Kicker4Life said:


> She’s done well trying to be creative. With no more NCAA games she’s feeling a bit lost as to what to do next.  Hopefully Jan/Feb will give both the opportunity to exercise their competitive demons and by March get some footage together.


Best of luck to her/them!


----------



## Glitterhater

happy9 said:


> I likely missed many NW conference ECNL teams
> 
> Convoluted view of AZ ECNL/GA teams.  Have heard both AZ ECNL clubs have pulled out but have zero confirmation.  Both GA clubs are holding tight as of this week.
> 
> On the upside, there will be clubs who will benefit from these teams not showing up.
> 
> 
> Updated count:
> West Coast (GA/ECRL)
> Slammers (ECNL)
> LAFC (ECNL)
> Blues 06 (ECNL
> 
> Thorns(ECNL)
> Davis (ECNL)
> Mustangs (ECNL)
> MVLA (ECNL)


Does anyone know about SJ? I know some of their teams opted out but I'm not sure about anything 06+


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> I am very glad that you don’t believe it is all just* God’s will.*


I open a thread for us over at off topic section.  Meet me over their for a discussion.  I take questions from anyone and also give my opinion so it's a cool way to discuss about, u know who.


----------



## oh canada

Why not just push it out till end of February, like the local courts?  Then we're all in.









						Maricopa County court suspends civil jury trials in COVID safety measure
					

Maricopa County Superior Court is suspending civil jury trials through February and limiting the number of criminal jury trials as a means to curb the spread of the coronavirus.




					ktar.com


----------



## happy9

oh canada said:


> Why not just push it out till end of February, like the local courts?  Then we're all in.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maricopa County court suspends civil jury trials in COVID safety measure
> 
> 
> Maricopa County Superior Court is suspending civil jury trials through February and limiting the number of criminal jury trials as a means to curb the spread of the coronavirus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ktar.com


It will get pushed out all the way to where it began.


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> You don't get me at all.  Review my post history, I'm as pro play as they come and certainly anti lockdown.  I'm offering an opinion and insight to the AZ landscape. I'm a pragmatist, not a pessimist.  Take a peak out our local headlines and our Covid #s.  Regardless of your virus views, government are going to be forced to act.  I'm also a business owner, there are many like me.  The virus winds are shifting the wrong way, and we know where that leads, just take a look at your state and the status of your local businesses.  Maybe you are in a virus proof industry, many are not.  While I don't subscribe to the hysterics of rona politics, I do acknowledge the potential effect of fear policy and realize I don't have much control over what is enacted.  Thus I'm sensitive to what I think is irrational reactionary behavior by adults.  It's like walking into the proverbial burning house.
> 
> I*N MY OPINION* - This is the wrong time to host an event that is going to attract negative national media at a time when the virus seems to be racing out of control in our state.  Again, I'm not hysterical about infections rates, our fatality rates are falling.  I would be a little miffed if my business and others are shut down because little johnny and sally had to get some game video in.  Come back in FEB, hopefully by then we've settled this rona thing down a bit.
> 
> If you don't like to read what I have to say then hit the ignore button.  Good thing about being an American is that we have the freedom to make choices.  If you don't like what I am saying, scroll it along.


I'm #1 Happy with "ignore"  I wear it as a badge of honor


----------



## N00B

dad4 said:


> EOTL is just a salesman selling his snake oil.


Nope, just a Troll.  Probably just gaslighting.

I’d quote EOTL’s post that explained the persona’s agenda, tactics and intent... but I think that got deleted in the great ‘politics/covid purge’ in another thread.


----------



## Lavey29

oh canada said:


> All of those clubs, at the very least, are withdrawing teams


Yes some pulled out others joined. You think 800 teams total fof the tournament or more?


----------



## soccer4us

happy9 said:


> I likely missed many NW conference ECNL teams
> 
> Convoluted view of AZ ECNL/GA teams.  Have heard both AZ ECNL clubs have pulled out but have zero confirmation.  Both GA clubs are holding tight as of this week.
> 
> On the upside, there will be clubs who will benefit from these teams not showing up.
> 
> 
> Updated count:
> West Coast (GA/ECRL)
> Slammers (ECNL)
> LAFC (ECNL)
> Blues 06 (ECNL
> 
> Thorns(ECNL)
> Davis (ECNL)
> Mustangs (ECNL)
> MVLA (ECNL)


I heard Santa Rosa, San Juan and Marin teams out too. Add all of Nor Cal ECNL teams to that list...


----------



## Bruddah IZ

notintheface said:


> There is no way it's that high, sorry. Show your work.





notintheface said:


> Come on man, it would take a Surf Cup every single day for ten years to even get to 1% of Arizona's net GDP. Let's not delude ourselves with the real economic impact of one tournament.


Lol! Show YOUR work!!


----------



## happy9

soccer4us said:


> I heard Santa Rosa, San Juan and Marin teams out too. Add all of Nor Cal ECNL teams to that list...


Certainly waters down the competition.  And that's not meant to cast shade on non ECNL/GA teams but competition does matter.  We will see how the socal ECNL/GA teams shakeout. 

 In the near term, level of competition doesn't really matter to Surf.  What matters is getting the tournament in .  They'll keep their elite status once they are back on a regular tournament schedule.  In spite of what anyone thinks about them and if conditions permit, every top club in CA, AZ, and from around the country will enter the next iteration of Surf.  I don't wish for them to go away permanently, they are a vital part of the soccer scene in the greater SW.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> There is no way it's that high, sorry. Show your work.


Why compare it to the state? Why not the city and the immediate surrounding area?


----------



## MSK357

Chalklines said:


> James Harden needing 6 negative tests before the NBA clears him to practice.
> 
> Not a chance he partied hard like these club parents did in AZ Thanksgiving weekend who then plopped their kids off back in school monday morning with no testing.


Maybe not James harden, but he team mates might. 





__





						Instagram Model Claims An NBA Player Has Already Invited Her Into Disney Bubble
					

It seems like the Disney Bubble is already at risk of being compromised. A couple of weeks ago, ESPN's Stephen A Smith predicted that players would




					brobible.com


----------



## Bruddah IZ

MSK357 said:


> Why compare it to the state? Why not the city and the immediate surrounding area?


Why compare it to State GDP unless you compare it to a like period of time....one weekend or 3 days.  Then it's 4.8%.


----------



## EOTL

dad4 said:


> A quick look at college rosters will tell you whether coaches rely on phone calls instead of scouts.  You will see a mix of players from different clubs.  Tells you all you need to know about "queenmakers".
> 
> EOTL is just a salesman selling his snake oil.


Blues has 13 players at Stanford and UCLA alone. 13. Stanford does not have a single CA player who did not play at a big club. UCLA has 5, but really only 3 since there are two PSV players and that guy has tons of cred and is a queenmaker.

That said, the true power of a place like Blues are for those not at the Stanford/UCLA level. Things are much harder for kids at the next tier, and also for the likes of mid to lower level P5 schools. If you play at Blues and Baker recommends you to the CO coach, they’re taking you over the 1000 people who send emails with videos. Period.  Believe what you want, I enjoy the increasing desperation in those parents who fail to listen and think emails and videos are the way.


----------



## notintheface

MSK357 said:


> Why compare it to the state? Why not the city and the immediate surrounding area?


Seriously, you just drop in to try to shit on me. Go away. Wow, the Scottsdale Hilton Garden Inn is going to have record numbers! Wowwwweeeeee!!!! Everybody go to Surf!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Giesbock

EOTL said:


> In fact, let me tell you how it goes @full90. A coach with real cred sits you down and asks you what you’re looking for in college, what schools you’re interested in, how important the money situation is, whether your grades will cut it if you’re interested in Ivy especially, and then tells you what schools are a fit based on your ability, skill set, and the other factors discussed. If he thinks your ability level is a fit, they make the call. You’re 90% there and all you need to do is not screw it up. It is that easy. College coaches know the likes of Baker and Deza do not oversell their players. They know Baker and Deza have a very good idea what they want.
> 
> Good luck doing it the hard way! What catchy re: lines are you putting into your unsolicited emails these days? What super hip music are y’all putting into the background of your iMovie videos? How does your kid stand out in all the voicemails they leave? So curious.


You’re suggesting that two club coaches drive all of top tier college soccer??  Seems a bit far fetched.  But I’m listening if you can name other club coaches that have sway.


----------



## full90

EOTL said:


> Blues has 13 players at Stanford and UCLA alone. 13. Stanford does not have a single CA player who did not play at a big club. UCLA has 5, but really only 3 since there are two PSV players and that guy has tons of cred and is a queenmaker.
> 
> That said, the true power of a place like Blues are for those not at the Stanford/UCLA level. Things are much harder for kids at the next tier, and also for the likes of mid to lower level P5 schools. If you play at Blues and Baker recommends you to the CO coach, they’re taking you over the 1000 people who send emails with videos. Period.  Believe what you want, I enjoy the increasing desperation in those parents who fail to listen and think emails and videos are the way.



you have no idea what you’re talking about. Each time you post you show your ignorance more.

the Colorado coach isn’t taking a kid based on bakers word. Dude. Just stop.

good players get found. Playing at a high profile club helps because you get more chances to be in front of coaches. But great players come out of lots of places. When a club coach calls a college coach and says I have a kid who is good and interested the college coach says ok thanks I’ll try and watch them. That’s it. Colleges won’t even take walk ons based on someones word.

parents don’t fret if you’re kid isn’t at a big club. Focus on getting better, having fun and finding ways to get in front of coaches. If the kid is good the coaches will find them. I’ve been a coach, know coaches and have seen it over and over and over. Work hard have fun and be relentless in getting better.


----------



## MSK357

notintheface said:


> Seriously, you just drop in to try to shit on me. Go away. Wow, the Scottsdale Hilton Garden Inn is going to have record numbers! Wowwwweeeeee!!!! Everybody go to Surf!!!!!!!!!


I feel embarrassed for you


----------



## Spfister

happy9 said:


> Certainly waters down the competition.  And that's not meant to cast shade on non ECNL/GA teams but competition does matter.  We will see how the socal ECNL/GA teams shakeout.
> 
> In the near term, level of competition doesn't really matter to Surf.  What matters is getting the tournament in .  They'll keep their elite status once they are back on a regular tournament schedule.  In spite of what anyone thinks about them and if conditions permit, every top club in CA, AZ, and from around the country will enter the next iteration of Surf.  I don't wish for them to go away permanently, they are a vital part of the soccer scene in the greater SW.


Competition doesn’t matter so much When you haven’t played a game in 8 months.  Our boys are just happy to be able to play I don’t think they care about the competition.


----------



## GT45

happy9 said:


> For the most part, you don't get it.  Here is another potential nail in the coffin for Surf.  Peoria is a rather conservative city, anti lockdown, and pro business.  I don't know the details, but I'm sure Surf asked about Peoria fields, they have a few really nice facilities that have been used this year for State League and by the DA in the past.  They also are hoping that Spring training, down the road, happens.  They are insulating themselves.
> 
> Sometimes it's better to abide by the *Should VS Could principle*. We will see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peoria closes community center, halts city activities as COVID-19 cases rise
> 
> 
> The city of Peoria is closing certain city facilities and activities in response a surge of coronavirus cases around the state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ktar.com


No you don't get it. My post was about your negativity. And, how do you respond? With more. Go back to an AZ board. We don't need your negative attitude.


----------



## Footy30

Lavey29 said:


> What about legends, strikers, arsenal,  rebels  etc.....


LAFC SLammers, Legends, Strikers and West Coast are all out
Not sure about Rebels or Arsenal


----------



## NewUser27

Footy30 said:


> LAFC SLammers, Legends, Strikers and West Coast are all out
> Not sure about Rebels or Arsenal


This is not accurate


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

Giesbock said:


> You’re suggesting that two club coaches drive all of top tier college soccer??  Seems a bit far fetched.  But I’m listening if you can name other club coaches that have sway.


my niece said no to Baker. He was pissed that he got rejected and sent a nasty text to her father. 
She went to Arsenal and then LAFC. She made it to UCLA.    She has teammates from Mexico, Europe, Hawaii, and other places not related to Blues.


----------



## soccermom74

SoccerFan4Life said:


> 'The right thing to do': Organizers cancel soccer Shootout because of coronavirus
> 
> 
> Organizers announced the tournament in October, citing multiple coronavirus-related safety precautions. On Wednesday, organizers said the decision to cancel "was just the right thing to do."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tucson.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If SurfCup can still go on, that is one impressive accomplishment.  More soccer tournaments cancelled in AZ.  See link


Tucson hasn't held any of their scheduled tournaments yet this year.  Not surprised they canceled Fort Lowell.  Fun tournament for Ulittles, but that is all it is.


----------



## happy9

GT45 said:


> No you don't get it. My post was about your negativity. And, how do you respond? With more. Go back to an AZ board. We don't need your negative attitude.


I guess facts don't fit your narrative, you don't like an opposing view, and you resort to personal attacks.  Spin it how you will.  I think I'll stay put - hit the ignore button or scroll on by. 

I hope for your sake that Surf is resilient enough to absorb potential loss of revenue.  They've been doing this for a while, they should have plans in place to weather the storm. You'll likely attend Surf at its normally scheduled time.


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> Blues has 13 players at Stanford and UCLA alone. 13. Stanford does not have a single CA player who did not play at a big club. UCLA has 5, but really only 3 since there are two PSV players and that guy has tons of cred and is a queenmaker.
> 
> That said, the true power of a place like Blues are for those not at the Stanford/UCLA level. Things are much harder for kids at the next tier, and also for the likes of mid to lower level P5 schools. If you play at Blues and Baker recommends you to the CO coach, they’re taking you over the 1000 people who send emails with videos. Period.  Believe what you want, I enjoy the increasing desperation in those parents who fail to listen and think emails and videos are the way.


I was told by two of three top Docs in Socal basically the same things EOTL, they the Docs said to my soccer player student:  "Where do you what to play ball and please dont say UCLA.  I know all the top Power 5 coaches and all I have to do is make a call and the deal is done.  If your old man calls me complaining or questioning my motives and how I treat woman, then it's all over for you and you wont play in the next game, so there!"  "Or, if your old man keeps challenging my morals and my playing head trips with parents and dds, then I will tell them your dad is a crazy ass father with a history of histrionic disorder and run to the hills.  So Sally, where you want to ball?"


----------



## oh canada

EOTL said:


> Blues has 13 players at Stanford and UCLA alone. 13. Stanford does not have a single CA player who did not play at a big club. UCLA has 5, but really only 3 since there are two PSV players and that guy has tons of cred and is a queenmaker.
> 
> That said, the true power of a place like Blues are for those not at the Stanford/UCLA level. Things are much harder for kids at the next tier, and also for the likes of mid to lower level P5 schools. If you play at Blues and Baker recommends you to the CO coach, they’re taking you over the 1000 people who send emails with videos. Period.  Believe what you want, I enjoy the increasing desperation in those parents who fail to listen and think emails and videos are the way.


because this thread is getting a lot of eyeballs, I will chime in though it is off topic a bit.  @EOTL already knows we differ on this subject.  Agree with others that Queenmakers are old school youth soccer lore.  It's a different World now when Florida State routinely beats UNC on the women's side and mens college has seen 8 different champs in the last 10 years.

Plus, your daughter becomes a better player at a smaller club with a better coach than suffering through a specific coach's ego-driven verbal abuse for 3-4 years.  Her better game then creates more opportunities.


----------



## crush

oh canada said:


> because this thread is getting a lot of eyeballs, I will chime in though it is off topic a bit.  @EOTL already knows we differ on this subject.  Agree with others that Queenmakers are old school youth soccer lore.  It's a different World now when Florida State routinely beats UNC on the women's side and mens college has seen 8 different champs in the last 10 years.
> 
> Plus, your daughter becomes a better player at a smaller club with a better coach than suffering through a specific coach's ego-driven verbal abuse for 3-4 years.  Her better game then creates more opportunities.


Oh Canada, you started this thread and it's on fire.  Great headline to attract us all and good takes.  You and I need to find some middle ground and work to help the girls.  They are the ones getting the short end of the stick.


----------



## happy9

oh canada said:


> because this thread is getting a lot of eyeballs, I will chime in though it is off topic a bit.  @EOTL already knows we differ on this subject.  Agree with others that Queenmakers are old school youth soccer lore.  It's a different World now when Florida State routinely beats UNC on the women's side and mens college has seen 8 different champs in the last 10 years.
> 
> Plus, your daughter becomes a better player at a smaller club with a better coach than suffering through a specific coach's ego-driven verbal abuse for 3-4 years.  Her better game then creates more opportunities.


"Queenmakers" have always operated on the margins.  98% myth, 2% kinda true.  

Reality is recruiting has evolved, especially on the men's side.  Off shore relationships at some programs are sometimes more important than stateside recruiting efforts.

The women's side remains more traditional but is certainly trending off shore.  Some Club DOCs may have a seat up against the wall in the room with the table at some programs - most parents will not have players on those clubs.  There is a reason why Surf is constantly on message with video and why parents of olders want to play at Surf.  Getting seen is tough right now.  Some college coaches need to fill rosters, some have written off 21s and 22s.  Since I'm a glass half full kind of person (contrary to being branded a pessimist), there is plenty of opportunity for kids to play.  

Most people on this forum will not have a player on a P5 roster.  For those that do,, congrats!  those players are exceptional and have worked their butt off.


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> "Queenmakers" have always operated on the margins.  98% myth, 2% kinda true.
> 
> Reality is recruiting has evolved, especially on the men's side.  Off shore relationships at some programs are sometimes more important than stateside recruiting efforts.
> 
> The women's side remains more traditional but is certainly trending off shore.  Some Club DOCs may have a seat up against the wall in the room with the table at some programs - most parents will not have players on those clubs.  There is a reason why Surf is constantly on message with video and why parents of olders want to play at Surf.  Getting seen is tough right now.  Some college coaches need to fill rosters, some have written off 21s and 22s.  Since I'm a glass half full kind of person (contrary to being branded a pessimist), there is plenty of opportunity for kids to play.
> 
> Most people on this forum will not have a player on a P5 roster.  For those that do,, congrats!  those players are exceptional and have worked their butt off.


I love Happy takes most of the time and this is one of them.  I was recently diagnosed with Histrionic Personality Disorder Happy and I can see why. I see some similarities so maybe the beginning stages of the great HPD?  The truth is this.  I just spoke to another dad of a goat that played college ball and just quit.  Sophomore year and is done with soccer.  I also spoke to a pal who coaches D1.  He said they are taking two steps back and reevaluating their programs, roster size and so much more things that it's very hard to operate, let alone play.  He told my dd to keep training like there is no tomorrow.  Hikes, lifting weights, run on the beach and run at the Great Park and just keep running until stop.  Juggle and lots of wall hits.  This is the time because she's on lock down and has more time to do this kind of boring training.  However, she needs to catch up on her juggling.  He also said when the kids are allowed to ball in Socal, all the top coaches will always make room for an eye opener.  Happens every year. Plus, Power 5 is not the only game in town for my dd. Time is on our side so we relax and enjoy the Holidays.  Love you all


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

happy9 said:


> "Queenmakers" have always operated on the margins.  98% myth, 2% kinda true.
> 
> Reality is recruiting has evolved, especially on the men's side.  Off shore relationships at some programs are sometimes more important than stateside recruiting efforts.
> 
> The women's side remains more traditional but is certainly trending off shore.  Some Club DOCs may have a seat up against the wall in the room with the table at some programs - most parents will not have players on those clubs.  There is a reason why Surf is constantly on message with video and why parents of olders want to play at Surf.  Getting seen is tough right now.  Some college coaches need to fill rosters, some have written off 21s and 22s.  Since I'm a glass half full kind of person (contrary to being branded a pessimist), there is plenty of opportunity for kids to play.
> 
> Most people on this forum will not have a player on a P5 roster.  For those that do,, congrats!  those players are exceptional and have worked their butt off.


I know of several players that made it to college to drop out of the soccer program after the first year.   Training 4 to 6 hours a day plus school is extremely difficult.  I have a do over with my young one and my goal is just get her to have fun and learn, make friends, and get to high school soccer. 

 The financial ROI is not good enough anymore to spend so much money on ECNL/DA.     If your child is a baller and loves it so much that's willing to invest all the time to become elite,  go for the highest level.  For everyone else, enjoy the ride because with my older  boys, it ended too soon.


----------



## EOTL

oh canada said:


> because this thread is getting a lot of eyeballs, I will chime in though it is off topic a bit.  @EOTL already knows we differ on this subject.  Agree with others that Queenmakers are old school youth soccer lore.  It's a different World now when Florida State routinely beats UNC on the women's side and mens college has seen 8 different champs in the last 10 years.
> 
> Plus, your daughter becomes a better player at a smaller club with a better coach than suffering through a specific coach's ego-driven verbal abuse for 3-4 years.  Her better game then creates more opportunities.


Sure. Kids definitely become better players at smaller clubs. That explains why zero kids from smaller clubs go to Stanford and very few at UCLA, or any major college program.

Suit yourself. What’s the catchy re: line of choice in unsolicited emails these days? I know how these coaches much prefer to spend hundreds of hours reading emails and watching random game video.  Definitely more efficient than Baker or Deza calling to say they have a girl who wants to go to their school and is good enough.


----------



## happy9

EOTL said:


> Sure. Kids definitely become better players at smaller clubs. That explains why zero kids from smaller clubs go to Stanford and very few at UCLA, or any major college program.
> 
> Suit yourself. What’s the catchy re: line of choice in unsolicited emails these days? I know how these coaches much prefer to spend hundreds of hours reading emails and watching random game video.  Definitely more efficient than Baker or Deza calling to say they have a girl who wants to go to their school and is good enough.


So only the PAC 12 exists? Or is it a zero sum game?  PAC 12 or bust?   Is it a complete failure to attend Point Loma, Azusa Pacific?  Why the hate?


----------



## happy9

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I know of several players that made it to college to drop out of the soccer program after the first year.   Training 4 to 6 hours a day plus school is extremely difficult.  I have a do over with my young one and my goal is just get her to have fun and learn, make friends, and get to high school soccer.
> 
> The financial ROI is not good enough anymore to spend so much money on ECNL/DA.     If your child is a baller and loves it so much that's willing to invest all the time to become elite,  go for the highest level.  For everyone else, enjoy the ride because with my older  boys, it ended too soon.


Certainly good logic, especially on the boys side.  My oldest was offered more merit $$$ from a well appointed D2 school than soccer $$$ from a mediocre D1 school in a rather crappy location.  Academically, the two schools couldn't have been more opposite.  He's chosen the well appointed D2 school, which offered a great academic package that allows him to continue to play the game he loves and get the education he desires.  And he likes the campus and location. If he decides he no longer wants to play soccer after a year, he will still be able to utilize merit scholarship $$$ to stay on campus.  He certainly doesn't have the skill set to go to a P5 conference and play from day 1 but has the academics to get into almost any school he chooses.  

Playing at the next level is hard and takes a special kind of kid to make it through the 4 + years.  Less than 6% play in college.  I have no idea what the percentages are in regards to # of years actually played.


----------



## oh canada

EOTL said:


> Sure. Kids definitely become better players at smaller clubs. That explains why zero kids from smaller clubs go to Stanford and very few at UCLA, or any major college program.
> 
> Suit yourself. What’s the catchy re: line of choice in unsolicited emails these days? I know how these coaches much prefer to spend hundreds of hours reading emails and watching random game video.  Definitely more efficient than Baker or Deza calling to say they have a girl who wants to go to their school and is good enough.


Depends on your definition of "smaller" clubs.  I'm not talking about Liverpool Santa Ana North.  Any ECNL club will do just fine (as can be seen by Stanford's current roster if that's the example we're going with).  Especially now with high school soccer back in play (post-Covid, of course).  Plenty of opportunity to go around.


----------



## dad4

EOTL said:


> Sure. Kids definitely become better players at smaller clubs. That explains why zero kids from smaller clubs go to Stanford and very few at UCLA, or any major college program.
> 
> Suit yourself. What’s the catchy re: line of choice in unsolicited emails these days? I know how these coaches much prefer to spend hundreds of hours reading emails and watching random game video.  Definitely more efficient than Baker or Deza calling to say they have a girl who wants to go to their school and is good enough.


13 players at Stanford and UCLA over 4-5 years.  Congratulations.  

Now how many knee surgeries over that same time period?  30?  

I find it interesting that you mentioned PSV.  PSV just churns out injuries.  He’s got kids playing in 2 or 3 leagues, practice 6-7 days a week.  I’ve watched a kid get carried off the field in tears, holding her knee, go back in the game 10 minutes later, then carried off the field again.  Absolutely no concern for the health and well-being of the child.


----------



## GT45

happy9 said:


> I guess facts don't fit your narrative, you don't like an opposing view, and you resort to personal attacks.  Spin it how you will.  I think I'll stay put - hit the ignore button or scroll on by.
> 
> I hope for your sake that Surf is resilient enough to absorb potential loss of revenue.  They've been doing this for a while, they should have plans in place to weather the storm. You'll likely attend Surf at its normally scheduled time.


I have never championed a cause either way. Everyone can make their own choice. Surf is a business and they have the right to run it if it is allowed by cities in AZ. Yes, our team is going. I don't shit on people who choose not to.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

EOTL said:


> Sure. Kids definitely become better players at smaller clubs. That explains why zero kids from smaller clubs go to Stanford and very few at UCLA, or any major college program.
> 
> Suit yourself. What’s the catchy re: line of choice in unsolicited emails these days? I know how these coaches much prefer to spend hundreds of hours reading emails and watching random game video.  Definitely more efficient than Baker or Deza calling to say they have a girl who wants to go to their school and is good enough.


So you are sending your daughter a message that if you want to make it to the best program, you need to put up with an ahole coach that yells and screams at you all the time.  The demeaning behavior is acceptable as long as you make it to UCLA??


----------



## EOTL

SoccerFan4Life said:


> So you are sending your daughter a message that if you want to make it to the best program, you need to put up with an ahole coach that yells and screams at you all the time.  The demeaning behavior is acceptable as long as you make it to UCLA??


I used Baker and Deza as examples dumbs**t. That should be obvious from the words “such as”, but we know you’re a dumbs**t, so I’m not surprised you need further assistance understanding what words mean when put into complete sentences.

Baker is definitely not for everyone, especially kids with low self esteem and/or helicopter parents, and also kids who suck. I fully understand that we live in a world in which raising one’s voice ever is now often considered “abuse”, as is expecting “elite” athletes to run sprints, or a coach telling a player that he doesn’t agree with her helicopter daddy’s attempts to tell him what to do. Funny how so many folks gloss over the actual physical and sexual abuse that has gone on all around them including in the steepled houses of bigotry they hold so dearly, yet they blow a gasket when an unfit DI athlete whines that one time she got lightheaded running sprints.


----------



## oh canada

GT45 said:


> I have never championed a cause either way. Everyone can make their own choice. Surf is a business and they have the right to run it if it is allowed by cities in AZ. Yes, our team is going. I don't shit on people who choose not to.


Will you still go and play if your kid has to wear a mask during the game (serious question)?  See below--one of the measures White House Task Force is telling AZ they need to do is a statewide mask mandate:









						White House Coronavirus Task Force: Arizona needs 'aggressive' statewide measures
					

A document prepared for the White House Coronavirus Task Force late last month concluded that Arizona is not doing enough.




					www.azmirror.com


----------



## EOTL

dad4 said:


> 13 players at Stanford and UCLA over 4-5 years.  Congratulations.
> 
> Now how many knee surgeries over that same time period?  30?
> 
> I find it interesting that you mentioned PSV.  PSV just churns out injuries.  He’s got kids playing in 2 or 3 leagues, practice 6-7 days a week.  I’ve watched a kid get carried off the field in tears, holding her knee, go back in the game 10 minutes later, then carried off the field again.  Absolutely no concern for the health and well-being of the child.


Never said I was a fan of the PSV guy. There are other options up north who can get you 90% of the way to where you belong and want to go just by picking up the phone.


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> I used Baker and Deza as examples dumbs**t. That should be obvious from the words “such as”, but we know you’re a dumbs**t, so I’m not surprised you need further assistance understanding what words mean when put into complete sentences.
> 
> Baker is definitely not for everyone, especially kids with low self esteem and/or helicopter parents, and also kids who suck. I fully understand that we live in a world in which raising one’s voice ever is now often considered “abuse”, as is expecting “elite” athletes to run sprints, or a coach telling a player that he doesn’t agree with her helicopter daddy’s attempts to tell him what to do. Funny how so many folks gloss over the actual physical and sexual abuse that has gone on all around them including in the steepled houses of bigotry they hold so dearly, yet they blow a gasket when an unfit DI athlete whines that one time she got lightheaded running sprints.


Just can’t help but to call people names.....Does throwing a clipboard and someone count as “abuse” in your world?  Seems more like you can relate to Baker cause you mistreat people in a similar manner.

In short, a good Coach will advocate and help players get into Top schools, that’s why you choose a Coach not a Club or League.


----------



## happy9

GT45 said:


> I have never championed a cause either way. Everyone can make their own choice. Surf is a business and they have the right to run it if it is allowed by cities in AZ. Yes, our team is going. I don't shit on people who choose not to.


I don't disagree with any of this.  Surf is indeed a business a business and an  important part of the CA soccer landscape.  Cities in AZ also have a right to protect their business interests and those of their citizens.  

Please point out where I've shit on anyone's choice to come and play if Surf occurs.  The topic of the discussion is Surf Cup's Fate, not don't come to Surf Cup. You are arguing that in spite of current health and political conditions in AZ, that Surf should somehow be allowed to carry on as if nothing is happening.  But something is happening, a lot is happening, and changing on a daily basis.  

A decision will be made here at some point.  I will live with that decision and  move on with my life.  Professionally, there are systems in place that will allow my family and I weather any backlash, if they happen.  If they don't, then good.  On top of that, if our club decides to play, my youngest will play, like we've done almost every weekend since late AUG.  Much easier for me since I live a short distance to fields in Scottsdale.

No one is denying your right to choose, but your right to choose doesn't mean I (or others) have to agree with your choice, your views, and your opinion. It's why these forums exist.  They are not designed to confirm your bias, they are designed to share information, get into stupid arguments, and engage intellectually with people across the soccer landscape.


----------



## happy9

oh canada said:


> Will you still go and play if your kid has to wear a mask during the game (serious question)?  See below--one of the measures White House Task Force is telling AZ they need to do is a statewide mask mandate:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White House Coronavirus Task Force: Arizona needs 'aggressive' statewide measures
> 
> 
> A document prepared for the White House Coronavirus Task Force late last month concluded that Arizona is not doing enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.azmirror.com


It's happening in Maryland.  Do I agree, nope, is it happening, yep.  Are they complaining? Nope.  Are they playing? Yep.









						ILWomen Fall All-Access: Maryland Looking Forward Despite Pandemic
					

(Photo Courtesy: Maryland Athletics)   As the nation battles COVID, mental health has become top-of-mind as people adjust to working




					www.insidelacrosse.com


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> Just can’t help but to call people names.....Does throwing a clipboard and someone count as “abuse” in your world?  Seems more like you can relate to Baker cause you mistreat people in a similar manner.
> 
> In short, a good Coach will advocate and help players get into Top schools, that’s why you choose a Coach not a Club or League.


Or, you choose a club to win medals. Everyone had their reasons to have their dd play in the gaming circuit.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

EOTL said:


> I used Baker and Deza as examples dumbs**t. That should be obvious from the words “such as”, but we know you’re a dumbs**t, so I’m not surprised you need further assistance understanding what words mean when put into complete sentences.
> 
> Baker is definitely not for everyone, especially kids with low self esteem and/or helicopter parents, and also kids who suck.


lmao.  Nice personality trait there buddy.   From your logic (Statement) listed above, kids that dont play for Baker either suck or have low self esteem.  My niece was neither and she is doing just fine at UCLA.  My point was dont put up with crap from coaches berrating kids because it;s not worth it.   The days of Bobby Knight type coaching are over.


----------



## dad4

EOTL said:


> Never said I was a fan of the PSV guy. There are other options up north who can get you 90% of the way to where you belong and want to go just by picking up the phone.


At the point when you say there are several options, we can agree.  There are lots of clubs and lots of coaches, find one that works for your child.  If she likes a super aggressive style, that’s her choice.  If she thinks it’s rude and demeaning, then leave.


----------



## happy9

oh canada said:


> Will you still go and play if your kid has to wear a mask during the game (serious question)?  See below--one of the measures White House Task Force is telling AZ they need to do is a statewide mask mandate:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> White House Coronavirus Task Force: Arizona needs 'aggressive' statewide measures
> 
> 
> A document prepared for the White House Coronavirus Task Force late last month concluded that Arizona is not doing enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.azmirror.com


And of course there is Massachusetts which I guess has been doing this for some time.  









						Is This Still Soccer? (Published 2020)
					

In Massachusetts, rule changes brought on by the pandemic — no contact, no tackles, no headers, no throw-ins — are forcing soccer players and coaches to adapt to a very different game.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## Kicker4Life

crush said:


> Or, you choose a club to win medals. Everyone had their reasons to have their dd play in the gaming circuit.


And then whine about it incessantly when The luster of the shiny metal wears off. Sorry for college coaches don’t recruit based on medals around your neck the recruit based on performance on the field.


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> And then whine about it incessantly when The luster of the shiny metal wears off. Sorry for college coaches don’t recruit based on medals around your neck the recruit based on performance on the field.


Do you have your squad from South Bay for a friendly? High School age only.  We start HS practice late February, how bout you?


----------



## Kicker4Life

crush said:


> Do you have your squad from South Bay for a friendly? High School age only.  We start HS practice late February, how bout you?


That’ll be a hard pass on anything you are involved with.


----------



## crush

Tech FC,  Crush FC needs a squad to battle. I have a field, shhhhhhh!!!!  IE has best talent out there, MOO.  South Bay is a hard no. At least Kicker is talking to me now. Dude, I forgive you.  Let it go.  Please forgive me too because I did ask you for forgiveness.  How about San Fernando Valley?  San Diego?  Free soccer for all.  Get a team.  I now have a team ready to ball.  No parents allowed.  Girls drive themselves or hitch a ride.  Refs only and zero parents.  Just friendly to stay in shape.  I'm sorry to hear some would never participate with me.  I said sorry long time ago too.  I'm not perfect either and had my share of failures the last three sum years.


----------



## happy9

AZ GA clubs have pulled their teams from Surf.

Surf could not answer the following questions:
 - How many teams will be in attendance (400 have pulled out)
 - Field locations

I don't 100% know the status of the AZ ECNL teams.


----------



## EOTL

Kicker4Life said:


> Just can’t help but to call people names.....Does throwing a clipboard and someone count as “abuse” in your world?  Seems more like you can relate to Baker cause you mistreat people in a similar manner.
> 
> In short, a good Coach will advocate and help players get into Top schools, that’s why you choose a Coach not a Club or League.


I sincerely apologize. I should definitely treat someone who lacks reading comprehension and incorrectly claims I’m saying things I’m not with the dignity and respect they don’t deserve.

BTW, I’ve never hit anyone with a clipboard to the best of my recollection.  Why are you so mean to @crush, anyway?


----------



## soccer4us

happy9 said:


> AZ GA clubs have pulled their teams from Surf.
> 
> Surf could not answer the following questions:
> - How many teams will be in attendance (400 have pulled out)
> - Field locations
> 
> I don't 100% know the status of the AZ ECNL teams.


How do you know the number pulled out? Just curious. Is their a current list anywhere?


----------



## MSK357

happy9 said:


> AZ GA clubs have pulled their teams from Surf.
> 
> Surf could not answer the following questions:
> - How many teams will be in attendance (400 have pulled out)
> - Field locations
> 
> I don't 100% know the status of the AZ ECNL teams.


So surf couldn't answer how many teams would be in attendance, but YOU know that 400 have pulled out? I call BS.


----------



## happy9

soccer4us said:


> How do you know the number pulled out? Just curious. Is their a current list anywhere?


From a trusted source and Surf advocate.   I haven't seen a list (haven't really looked).  At this point, I think that number really doesn't mean anything.  Sounds like Surf isn't able to secure fields, which makes sense based on footprint required and the low level of interest from other cities in the valley.


----------



## happy9

MSK357 said:


> So surf couldn't answer how many teams would be in attendance, but YOU know that 400 have pulled out? I call BS.


You can call it whatever you want or conclude what you want from it. I don't know how many teams have pulled out, I was told how many teams have pulled out.  Doesn't really matter, teams are pulling out left and right.


----------



## EOTL

SoccerFan4Life said:


> lmao.  Nice personality trait there buddy.   From your logic (Statement) listed above, kids that dont play for Baker either suck or have low self esteem.  My niece was neither and she is doing just fine at UCLA.  My point was dont put up with crap from coaches berrating kids because it;s not worth it.   The days of Bobby Knight type coaching are over.


Wow, you have some serious problems with the synapses. No, I never said only those who play for Baker are good or have high self esteem. But you certainly won’t be there long if you don’t. 

And clearly the days of Baker type coaches are not over, given that he seems to be doing jist fine thank you very much. And comparing him to Bobby Knight is more than a little unfair. I’ve never seen Baker throw a chair onto a field, choke or hit someone, go off on racist rants, assault a police officer, shove his own feces into the faces of players.  You know, actual abuse.


----------



## EOTL

MSK357 said:


> So surf couldn't answer how many teams would be in attendance, but YOU know that 400 have pulled out? I call BS.


Coming from the guy who also thinks only 14 people have died from the reason 400 teams have backed out.


----------



## Own Goal

happy9 said:


> It's happening in Maryland.  Do I agree, nope, is it happening, yep.  Are they complaining? Nope.  Are they playing? Yep.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ILWomen Fall All-Access: Maryland Looking Forward Despite Pandemic
> 
> 
> (Photo Courtesy: Maryland Athletics)   As the nation battles COVID, mental health has become top-of-mind as people adjust to working
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.insidelacrosse.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 9649


Since Day 1 my daughter has said she will wear a mask if it means she can play.


----------



## MSK357

EOTL said:


> Coming from the guy who also thinks only 14 people have died from the reason 400 teams have backed out.


when?


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> I sincerely apologize. I should definitely treat someone who lacks reading comprehension and incorrectly claims I’m saying things I’m not with the dignity and respect they don’t deserve.
> 
> BTW, I’ve never hit anyone with a clipboard to the best of my recollection.  Why are you so mean to @crush, anyway?


Please show me where i misquoted you or claimed you said something you did not say???  My question to you is “if” you would qualify throwing a clipboard at a player as abuse.  Never said you threw it, actually Baker did.  

I have my reasons that extend beyond this forum.....lines where crossed.


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> Wow, you have some serious problems with the synapses. No, I never said only those who play for Baker are good or have high self esteem. But you certainly won’t be there long if you don’t.
> 
> And clearly the days of Baker type coaches are not over, given that he seems to be doing jist fine thank you very much. And comparing him to Bobby Knight is more than a little unfair. I’ve never seen Baker throw a chair onto a field, choke or hit someone, go off on racist rants, assault a police officer, shove his own feces into the faces of players.  You know, actual abuse.


I actually liked the Baker way.  All my coaches demanded excellence and hard work.  If you slacked off, you got called out.  My dd can use a little of that style.  I saw what he produced right before my very eyes and ears for two years....lol!  He also produces winners and recruits the players your talking about.  My dd was not a good match for him, trust me.  I would pay money to see him try to yell my dd though...lol


----------



## GT45

happy9 said:


> I don't disagree with any of this.  Surf is indeed a business a business and an  important part of the CA soccer landscape.  Cities in AZ also have a right to protect their business interests and those of their citizens.
> 
> Please point out where I've shit on anyone's choice to come and play if Surf occurs.  The topic of the discussion is Surf Cup's Fate, not don't come to Surf Cup. You are arguing that in spite of current health and political conditions in AZ, that Surf should somehow be allowed to carry on as if nothing is happening.  But something is happening, a lot is happening, and changing on a daily basis.
> 
> A decision will be made here at some point.  I will live with that decision and  move on with my life.  Professionally, there are systems in place that will allow my family and I weather any backlash, if they happen.  If they don't, then good.  On top of that, if our club decides to play, my youngest will play, like we've done almost every weekend since late AUG.  Much easier for me since I live a short distance to fields in Scottsdale.
> 
> No one is denying your right to choose, but your right to choose doesn't mean I (or others) have to agree with your choice, your views, and your opinion. It's why these forums exist.  They are not designed to confirm your bias, they are designed to share information, get into stupid arguments, and engage intellectually with people across the soccer landscape.


You continue to miss the point. All you do is bring negativity here. Your opinions are clear. You do not think it should happen. We get it. A decision has been made that they are having it. Unless they change their minds it is on at this point.

I am going to do myself a favor and hit the ignore button on your URL so I do not have to read your negativity and attempts to post as facts things that are actually just rumors.


----------



## EOTL

Kicker4Life said:


> Please show me where i misquoted you or claimed you said something you did not say???  My question to you is “if” you would qualify throwing a clipboard at a player as abuse.  Never said you threw it, actually Baker did.
> 
> I have my reasons that extend beyond this forum.....lines where crossed.


All I’ve said is coaches like Baker and Deza have clout with college coaches and all they need to do is pick up a phone and your kid is pretty much there unless they screw it up. That’s a fact. It just is. I didn’t say I think Baker’s a good coach. I didn’t even say I agree with his, er, style. I never even recommended him. I never said he’s a nice guy, and I never even said he hasn’t crossed the line, although I did thoroughly enjoy pushing your and others’ buttons about what does and doesn’t constitute abuse.

In response to what isn’t even the least bit controversial even if you disagree with it, I’ve got people claiming I said he is the only person in SoCal with that power and am a liar, that I told them that their daughter sucked because they played for someone else, that I hate small clubs, that I support people who throw things at people, that I support kids training 7 days a week until they break their knees, etc. It’s this kind of crazy that I love most about this place. Real cray cray.

I will apologize for saying you misquoted me because I mistook you for @SoccerFan4Life. Kinda similar names. My mistake. I am sorry.


----------



## EOTL

GT45 said:


> You continue to miss the point. All you do is bring negativity here. Your opinions are clear. You do not think it should happen. We get it. A decision has been made that they are having it. Unless they change their minds it is on at this point.
> 
> I am going to do myself a favor and hit the ignore button on your URL so I do not have to read your negativity and attempts to post as facts things that are actually just rumors.


You continue to miss the point. All you do is bring negativity here. Your opinions are clear. You think it should happen. We get it. A decision has been made that 400 teams have dropped out because it is the wise, safe and thoughtful thing to do. Unless they change their minds they aren’t coming at this point.

I am not going to do myself a favor and hit the ignore button on your URL because, unlike you, I’m not a snowflake.


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> *Cray cray place*
> 
> I will apologize for saying you misquoted me because I mistook you for @SoccerFan4Life. Kinda similar names. My mistake. I am sorry.


I agree with you.  I came here because of the obvious crazy folks on here.  I was hooked the day I first arrive.  Some dad making fun of my baby girl for crying and winning all the time and scoring I might add....lol!  The taste of victory is sweet to the soul.  I love that you said sorry as well.  I had two top coaches ((all about the right coach, that's for sure)) tell me they could pick up the phone right now and if they say this is a can;t miss, then they go for it. That was 8th grade and I said no thanks, too young and were here for pro anyways.


----------



## happy9

GT45 said:


> You continue to miss the point. All you do is bring negativity here. Your opinions are clear. You do not think it should happen. We get it. *A decision has been made that they are having it. Unless they change their minds it is on at this point.*
> 
> I am going to do myself a favor and hit the ignore button on your URL so I do not have to read your negativity and attempts to post as facts things that are actually just rumors.


The irony in this post is rich.  I imagine you'll eventually read my response.  Of course it's on until they decide it's not on.  It's ok to support something and then re-assess conditions.  Doesn't make you negative, it makes you an adult, with a brain that thinks critically. 

Kinda like sitting next to a fire, when it becomes too hot, you make the decision to move.  Good idea at first, not so much later. I mean, come one, what a silly take this is -->   Surf is gonna happen until Surf isn't gonna  happen?


----------



## Jose has returned

GT45 said:


> You continue to miss the point. All you do is bring negativity here. Your opinions are clear. You do not think it should happen. We get it. A decision has been made that they are having it. Unless they change their minds it is on at this point.
> 
> I am going to do myself a favor and hit the ignore button on your URL so I do not have to read your negativity and attempts to post as facts things that are actually just rumors.


Any given team can only play 3-4 games.  So it doesn't matter how many bug out we only need 3-4 teams per division and they can all be friendlies for all i care.  "Let my people go.....play"


----------



## Desert Hound

happy9 said:


> AZ GA clubs have pulled their teams from Surf.
> 
> Surf could not answer the following questions:
> - How many teams will be in attendance (400 have pulled out)
> - Field locations
> 
> I don't 100% know the status of the AZ ECNL teams.


I believe most did due to the possibility of HS soccer. Most girls are far more interested in playing for their HS vs Surf. 

When HS was off...our club was in. When HS was on (or might be) our club pulled.


----------



## dad4

Jose has returned said:


> Any given team can only play 3-4 games.  So it doesn't matter how many bug out we only need 3-4 teams per division and they can all be friendlies for all i care.  "Let my people go.....play"


Hope your kid has fun at the games.

We will wait for the all clear.


----------



## crush

Desert Hound said:


> I believe most did due to the possibility of HS soccer. Most girls are far more interested in playing for their HS vs Surf.
> 
> When HS was off...our club was in. When HS was on (or might be) our club pulled.


We start up end of Feb.  I'm praying the gods of soccer allow the girls to play HS Soccer in Socal.  That would be super cool and free


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> I believe most did due to the possibility of HS soccer. Most girls are far more interested in playing for their HS vs Surf.
> 
> When HS was off...our club was in. When HS was on (or might be) our club pulled.


Thanks, I didn't want to speak on their behalf.   Let's hope HS begins when they say it's going to begin and a somewhat meaningful season is played.


----------



## Lavey29

MSK357 said:


> So surf couldn't answer how many teams would be in attendance, but YOU know that 400 have pulled out? I call BS.



Exactly,  these clown sheep dont anything about Surf cup tournament as far as how many teams committed and how many chose not to play. That tournament attracts teams from around the country also where their youth sports were never paused for the China virus. What an exceptional life they must live inside their bubbles with nothing better to do then talking trash about another clubs tournament 24/7.

Let them kids play Surf...


----------



## EOTL

Lavey29 said:


> Exactly,  these clown sheep dont anything about Surf cup tournament as far as how many teams committed and how many chose not to play. That tournament attracts teams from around the country also where their youth sports were never paused for the China virus. What an exceptional life they must live inside their bubbles with nothing better to do then talking trash about another clubs tournament 24/7.
> 
> Let them kids play Surf...


Racist


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> Exactly,  these clown sheep dont anything about Surf cup tournament as far as how many teams committed and how many chose not to play. That tournament attracts teams from around the country also where their youth sports were never paused for the China virus. What an exceptional life they must live inside their bubbles with nothing better to do then talking trash about another clubs tournament 24/7.
> 
> Let them kids play Surf...


What's your take Mr. Insider?  Within the confines of this very post, you are the only person  who can't watch their player play an officially sanctioned game within their zip code.  That's a bubble, whether self imposed or not.

But the intellectual banter back and forth is fun. If Surf pulls this off, hats off to them for their ability to negotiate.  Don't take it so personal, this particular subject is being discussed to determine whether we think Surf will happen or not.  The prevailing winds seem to not be in your favor.

Accusing someone of trashing Surf is is laughable, just like your doctrinal use of the term China Virus.  I particularly don't care if you use the words, doesn't offend me, the virus did come from China. But your intent is juvenile and lame.

That's it for me for a bit.  I need to put on my PPE so I can leave my "bubble". I have a player who needs to be at a legal practice in 30 mins.  Maybe I'll responsibly order take out on the way home, and maybe have a socially distanced beer poured from the masked bartender while I wait.


----------



## N00B

EOTL said:


> I did thoroughly enjoy pushing your and others’ buttons about what does and doesn’t constitute abuse.
> 
> ...It’s this kind of crazy that I love most about this place. Real cray cray.


Yup, a Troll.... this persona likes pushing buttons and is in it for the entertainment of the responses they receive.


----------



## timbuck

EOTL said:


> All I’ve said is coaches like Baker and Deza have clout with college coaches and all they need to do is pick up a phone and your kid is pretty much there unless they screw it up. That’s a fact. It just is. I didn’t say I think Baker’s a good coach. I didn’t even say I agree with his, er, style. I never even recommended him. I never said he’s a nice guy, and I never even said he hasn’t crossed the line, although I did thoroughly enjoy pushing your and others’ buttons about what does and doesn’t constitute abuse.
> 
> In response to what isn’t even the least bit controversial even if you disagree with it, I’ve got people claiming I said he is the only person in SoCal with that power and am a liar, that I told them that their daughter sucked because they played for someone else, that I hate small clubs, that I support people who throw things at people, that I support kids training 7 days a week until they break their knees, etc. It’s this kind of crazy that I love most about this place. Real cray cray.
> 
> I will apologize for saying you misquoted me because I mistook you for @SoccerFan4Life. Kinda similar names. My mistake. I am sorry.


Plenty of parents would tolerate a coach like this if "They build winners!!"  Or if they can get your kid a 1/4 ride scholarship to some D1 school in Montana.








						Youth Football Coach Investigated for Child Abuse, Worked In Law Enforcement
					

The coach who attacked the kid has been identified at Gerrel Williams -- who actually worked for a Sheriff's Dept. in Georgia.




					www.tmz.com


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> What's your take Mr. Insider?  Within the confines of this very post, you are the only person  who can't watch their player play an officially sanctioned game within their zip code.  That's a bubble, whether self imposed or not.
> 
> But the intellectual banter back and forth is fun. If Surf pulls this off, hats off to them for their ability to negotiate.  Don't take it so personal, this particular subject is being discussed to determine whether we think Surf will happen or not.  The prevailing winds seem to not be in your favor.
> 
> Accusing someone of trashing Surf is is laughable, just like your doctrinal use of the term China Virus.  I particularly don't care if you use the words, doesn't offend me, the virus did come from China. But your intent is juvenile and lame.
> 
> That's it for me for a bit.  I need to put on my PPE so I can leave my "bubble". I have a player who needs to be at a legal practice in 30 mins.  Maybe I'll responsibly order take out on the way home, and maybe have a socially distanced beer poured from the masked bartender while I wait.



You have no personal direct info about Surf cup teams. No first hand knowledge  whatsoever. All you have is alleged hearsay but yet you post it all over forum sectionstalking trash about the club. Some of the strangest behaviors I've ever seen on a soccer forum and you are not alone doing it either. Several other sheep follow right behind again with no personal direct info just their speculation combined with trash talking the club. Obviously you guys are jealous of the success of the club and their player development.


----------



## whatithink

Lavey29 said:


> What an exceptional life they must live inside their bubbles with nothing better to do then talking trash about *another clubs tournament *24/7.


Surf Cup Sports, LLC is a California Domestic Limited-Liability Company filed on April 15, 2013. The company's filing status is listed as Active and its File Number is 201310610144.

Its not a soccer club.


----------



## Lavey29

whatithink said:


> Surf Cup Sports, LLC is a California Domestic Limited-Liability Company filed on April 15, 2013. The company's filing status is listed as Active and its File Number is 201310610144.
> 
> Its not a soccer club.


You dont think they have affiliation with the club for this event?


----------



## Lavey29

whatithink said:


> Surf Cup Sports, LLC is a California Domestic Limited-Liability Company filed on April 15, 2013. The company's filing status is listed as Active and its File Number is 201310610144.
> 
> Its not a soccer club.











						Home - Surf Cup Sports
					

Surf Cup Sports is one of the most influential and recognized youth sporting event organizers in the nation. Its tournaments draw the “Best of the Best” players from all over the world to compete in “America’s Finest City.”




					surfcupsports.com
				




They are certainly affiliated with Surf soccer. Surf soccer is boldly displayed on their home webpage.


----------



## dad4

Lavey29 said:


> Exactly,  these clown sheep dont anything about Surf cup tournament as far as how many teams committed and how many chose not to play. That tournament attracts teams from around the country also where their youth sports were never paused for the China virus. What an exceptional life they must live inside their bubbles with nothing better to do then talking trash about another clubs tournament 24/7.
> 
> Let them kids play Surf...


Look, we'll all be back in August.  A few, like GT45 are still going.  I hope his family has some nice games.

But some people are trying to decide if it is worth the trip.  If it is a watered down tournament, maybe they want to know that before they travel 500 miles for some 6-0 games.

Flip side, if your team is a bit weaker, maybe watered down sounds great.  

But either way people would like to know what it is this year.


----------



## Glitterhater

Why doesn't surf just put out a list of confirmed teams? That would solve a lot of speculation, right?


----------



## Chalklines

Glitterhater said:


> Why doesn't surf just put out a list of confirmed teams? That would solve a lot of speculation, right?


because any good teams left would then drop out.


----------



## MrCruett

EOTL said:


> Racist


Douche


----------



## whatithink

Lavey29 said:


> Home - Surf Cup Sports
> 
> 
> Surf Cup Sports is one of the most influential and recognized youth sporting event organizers in the nation. Its tournaments draw the “Best of the Best” players from all over the world to compete in “America’s Finest City.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surfcupsports.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are certainly affiliated with Surf soccer. Surf soccer is boldly displayed on their home webpage.


Its not the same org though. Surf Cup Sports is a for profit company, not a soccer club. 

So nobody is trashing another *clubs *tournament, which you contended. That's all.

Rated Sports, who run the Desert Super Cup & Phoenix Cup in AZ do the same thing, i.e. "affiliate" with some local club or clubs, throw them some $ and make far more for themselves.

For either of these sport event companies, its about their profits.

No big deal IMO, just not to be confused with actual club tournaments where the money is going to non profit youth soccer orgs.


----------



## espola

Lavey29 said:


> You dont think they have affiliation with the club for this event?


Surf Cup Sports grew out of San Diegutio Surf Soccer Club when someone realized these advantages of splitting off the profitable part into a separate corporation.  They are still intermingled to a degree known only to insiders.  I'm not sure if there is any relationship with Sudbury Properties, who runs the soccer fields ar El Corazon in Oceanside.


----------



## dad4

espola said:


> Surf Cup Sports grew out of San Diegutio Surf Soccer Club when someone realized these advantages of splitting off the profitable part into a separate corporation.  They are still intermingled to a degree known only to insiders.  I'm not sure if there is any relationship with Sudbury Properties, who runs the soccer fields ar El Corazon in Oceanside.


Sure, but how much of the benefit goes to insiders and how much goes to the kids?

Unless the non profit owns Surf Cup Sports, it sounds like insiders at the club walked off with one of the key assets of the organization.


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> You have no personal direct info about Surf cup teams. No first hand knowledge  whatsoever. All you have is alleged hearsay but yet you post it all over forum sectionstalking trash about the club. Some of the strangest behaviors I've ever seen on a soccer forum and you are not alone doing it either. Several other sheep follow right behind again with no personal direct info just their speculation combined with trash talking the club. Obviously you guys are jealous of the success of the club and their player development.


You crack me up with your doctrinal words - sheep, China Virus, bubble. Isn't it ironic that you use the term sheep?  At least you haven't used snowflake in awhile.  

As far as "hearsay is concerned" I will concede that I'm not 100% sure about the 400 teams pulling.  I'm confident in my source, which happens to have a  direct line to Surf, but that number has yet to be confirmed.  Here is some not hearsay:

1.  City of Phoenix will not make fields available
2.  City of Peoria will not make fields available
3.  City of Tempe will not make fields available
4.  Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa  are not accepting field requests
6.  Buckeye, Goodyear, Surprise are not allowing tournaments
7.  169 ICU beds available today, Banner Health Chief Clinical Officer projects they will reach capacity by end of week and be at 125% capacity next week.  *I'm not a rona hysteric but metrics matter to Surf's fate.  The good rona news is that the fatality rate of those infected continues to drop, even with rising positivity rates.  Good thing right?*
8.  AZ ECNL/GA teams are not participating
9.  Looks like Norcal ECNL teams are not participating and a growing number of socal ECNL/GA teams are not participating.

I'm beginning to to think that you have zero connection to any club or youth futbol in general in socal.  As a parent of players that have been playing against Surf teams for years, I have zero reason to trash talk Surf or wish them ill will.  AZ players have benefited from playing Surf teams for as long as I can remember. The CA and AZ youth soccer landscape benefit when Surf is putting on top notch showcases that attracts the "best of the best". 

 In this case, this event will not be the best of the best, and they know it.   It's unfortunate but I'm sure they will rebound and put on their Showcases over the summer or coordinate to have those moved out of state.  Cross your fingers that a vaccine is deployed efficiently and that people take it.


----------



## happy9

dad4 said:


> *Flip side, if your team is a bit weaker, maybe watered down sounds great.*
> 
> But either way people would like to know what it is this year.


Hadn't looked at it this way.

And yes, inquiring minds want to know, especially those trying to plan a trip.


----------



## oh canada

Chalklines said:


> because any good teams left would then drop out.


And ask for their deposit back which Surf, given the understanding and upstanding business that they are, will now no longer do.


----------



## 46n2

You guys crack me up , your saying watered down tournament , don't go, but for the last three months more than 3/4'rs of you have been driving 6 hours for fucking scrimmages?????


I hope it happens cause Id like to watch my kids play , but if it doesn't or my team decides not to go or my teams didnt get approved I will/would not be a hater like all of you .  (which alot did , has anyone brought that up, maybe your team wasn't accepted they had to shrink the tournament multiple times)

You same people are going to shit talk all the winners too, guarantee'd  Oh if my team was there, blah blah blah.


Seriously some of you guys are posers , like do you really think Surf isn't a great tournament?  Maybe its changed up but its going to be better than anything else going on now, theres teams from all over that come to play (hopefully)

For as long as I can remember theres always been the shit talkers of Surf Cup and typically their lower level team that don't get accepted

ps.  HS Soccer is purely for fun, the level of talent is no where near the club level unless the team is stacked 18 deep with club players.


----------



## MSK357

happy9 said:


> You crack me up with your doctrinal words - sheep, China Virus, bubble. Isn't it ironic that you use the term sheep?  At least you haven't used snowflake in awhile.
> 
> As far as "hearsay is concerned" I will concede that I'm not 100% sure about the 400 teams pulling.  I'm confident in my source, which happens to have a  direct line to Surf, but that number has yet to be confirmed.  Here is some not hearsay:
> 
> 1.  City of Phoenix will not make fields available
> 2.  City of Peoria will not make fields available
> 3.  City of Tempe will not make fields available
> 4.  Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa  are not accepting field requests
> 6.  Buckeye, Goodyear, Surprise are not allowing tournaments
> 7.  169 ICU beds available today, Banner Health Chief Clinical Officer projects they will reach capacity by end of week and be at 125% capacity next week.  *I'm not a rona hysteric but metrics matter to Surf's fate.  The good rona news is that the fatality rate of those infected continues to drop, even with rising positivity rates.  Good thing right?*
> 8.  AZ ECNL/GA teams are not participating
> 9.  Looks like Norcal ECNL teams are not participating and a growing number of socal ECNL/GA teams are not participating.
> 
> I'm beginning to to think that you have zero connection to any club or youth futbol in general in socal.  As a parent of players that have been playing against Surf teams for years, I have zero reason to trash talk Surf or wish them ill will.  AZ players have benefited from playing Surf teams for as long as I can remember. The CA and AZ youth soccer landscape benefit when Surf is putting on top notch showcases that attracts the "best of the best".
> 
> In this case, this event will not be the best of the best, and they know it.   It's unfortunate but I'm sure they will rebound and put on their Showcases over the summer or coordinate to have those moved out of state.  Cross your fingers that a vaccine is deployed efficiently and that people take it.


So....you must be talking about olders, because scottsdale, a city you didn't name, is where surf cup will be for youngers. If 400 teams from youngers pulled out that would mean almost 100% of teams, which is easily false.


----------



## STX

I feel sorry for y'all out there. 

I imagine if teams were getting to play local games (proving to be safe) there wouldn't be an insatiable desire to play a giant tournament where thousands of families will gather together indoors for several days when not playing games (proving to be unsafe). 

This weekend is the final one for Texas ECNL in 2020. Got in 80% of the fall season without a single report of player to player transmission on the field in games or in the fully normal training sessions we've been doing since June. About 20% of games were rescheduled to the spring due to clubs being cautious (if a player or coach on any team was positive and had contact with others, a 14 day quarantine was enacted for the team).  High school season is just now about to kick off. 

Maybe we just got lucky, but playing the local/regional games has been perfectly fine. I would do it again, as would every other family in the conference whose girls got some slice of a semblance of normalcy through soccer, and believe it has been safe for those involved and for the communities where games were played. 

But I would not be good with our team dropping in with hundreds of other teams in some community for a week. There is no way that isn't a potential big risk and a bad idea given all that is going on. 

If there was more logic and reason being applied to letting people do safe outdoor activities locally, there wouldn't be this burning need for many to try and squeeze in Surf Cup or any risky major travel events, no matter the consequences.


----------



## happy9

MSK357 said:


> So....you must be talking about olders, because scottsdale, a city you didn't name, is where surf cup will be for youngers. If 400 teams from youngers pulled out that would mean almost 100% of teams, which is easily false.


Which would be over christmas weekend.  Have you seen a schedule for the youngers?


----------



## happy9

46n2 said:


> You guys crack me up , your saying watered down tournament , don't go, but for the last three months more than 3/4'rs of you have been driving 6 hours for fucking scrimmages?????
> 
> 
> I hope it happens cause Id like to watch my kids play , but if it doesn't or my team decides not to go or my teams didnt get approved I will/would not be a hater like all of you .  (which alot did , has anyone brought that up, maybe your team wasn't accepted they had to shrink the tournament multiple times)
> 
> You same people are going to shit talk all the winners too, guarantee'd  Oh if my team was there, blah blah blah.
> 
> 
> Seriously some of you guys are posers , like do you really think Surf isn't a great tournament?  Maybe its changed up but its going to be better than anything else going on now, theres teams from all over that come to play (hopefully)
> 
> For as long as I can remember theres always been the shit talkers of Surf Cup and typically their lower level team that don't get accepted
> 
> ps.  HS Soccer is purely for fun, the level of talent is no where near the club level unless the team is stacked 18 deep with club players.


Who is saying Surf isn't a great tournament?


----------



## happy9

MSK357 said:


> So....you must be talking about olders, because scottsdale, a city you didn't name, is where surf cup will be for youngers. If 400 teams from youngers pulled out that would mean almost 100% of teams, which is easily false.


I didn't mention scottsdale because they haven't announced any field closures.  I know nothing about youngers.


----------



## MSK357

happy9 said:


> Which would be over christmas weekend.  Have you seen a schedule for the youngers?


Should be coming out in about a week or so. Surf cup is on and everything you said clearly doesn't apply to surf cup youngers. Or else you would have known all youngers games are in scottsdale.


----------



## happy9

MSK357 said:


> Should be coming out in about a week or so. Surf cup is on and everything you said clearly doesn't apply to surf cup youngers. Or else you would have known all youngers games are in scottsdale.


What makes you think I didn't know?  I live here and it's on the website, has been for some time. I don't have interest in discussing the fate of youngers Surf Cup.  Their travel makes even less sense. 

In two weeks, the media is going to be bat shit crazy with rise in cases and bed capacity.  Let's have a tournament that brings in 400 teams and their families, coaches etc, and plop them into one or two zip codes.  You think I'm anti surf, I'm trying to paint a picture of the local landscape and demonstrate what Surf is up against.  

If they are able to pull off the youngers at one location, hats off to then.  SSC has 10 large sided fields, 4 under lights.  I haven't run a tournament, but I would guess that translates to 20 small sided fields with 8 under lights.


----------



## MSK357

happy9 said:


> What makes you think I didn't know?  I live here and it's on the website, has been for some time. I don't have interest in discussing the fate of youngers Surf Cup.  Their travel makes even less sense.
> 
> In two weeks, the media is going to be bat shit crazy with rise in cases and bed capacity.  Let's have a tournament that brings in 400 teams and their families, coaches etc, and plop them into one or two zip codes.  You think I'm anti surf, I'm trying to paint a picture of the local landscape and demonstrate what Surf is up against.
> 
> If they are able to pull off the youngers at one location, hats off to then.  SSC has 10 large sided fields, 4 under lights.  I haven't run a tournament, but I would guess that translates to 20 small sided fields with 8 under lights.


You didn't know, because you said so yourself that you know nothing about youngers.

As far as olders, according to you there will be basically 0 teams coming because "someone" told you 400 teams pulled out. Either you were talking out of your ass before, or you are now admitting they are actually coming. Which is it troll?


----------



## Spfister

STX said:


> I feel sorry for y'all out there.
> 
> I imagine if teams were getting to play local games (proving to be safe) there wouldn't be an insatiable desire to play a giant tournament where thousands of families will gather together indoors for several days when not playing games (proving to be unsafe).
> 
> This weekend is the final one for Texas ECNL in 2020. Got in 80% of the fall season without a single report of player to player transmission on the field in games or in the fully normal training sessions we've been doing since June. About 20% of games were rescheduled to the spring due to clubs being cautious (if a player or coach on any team was positive and had contact with others, a 14 day quarantine was enacted for the team).  High school season is just now about to kick off.
> 
> Maybe we just got lucky, but playing the local/regional games has been perfectly fine. I would do it again, as would every other family in the conference whose girls got some slice of a semblance of normalcy through soccer, and believe it has been safe for those involved and for the communities where games were played.
> 
> But I would not be good with our team dropping in with hundreds of other teams in some community for a week. There is no way that isn't a potential big risk and a bad idea given all that is going on.
> 
> If there was more logic and reason being applied to letting people do safe outdoor activities locally, there wouldn't be this burning need for many to try and squeeze in Surf Cup or any risky major travel events, no matter the consequences.


Spoken by someone who’s kid has a normal  soccer season and who’s kid hasn’t gone 9 months without playing a game. I bet if your kid was suffering like ours have in CA And not been able to play the sport they love and not been able to practice without staying 6 feet apart… You’d feel much differently about going to a tournament.


----------



## GT45

It is amazing how much people want to crap on Surf Cup, when all these same people ignore all of the tournaments that were played in Arizona over Thanksgiving weekend. I bet most of these people had kids playing in them too.


----------



## GT45

oh canada said:


> And ask for their deposit back which Surf, given the understanding and upstanding business that they are, will now no longer do.


Surf was very fair. They extended their timeframe for teams to back out and get a full refund to allow teams to evaluate their status. Let's not tell lies here. If you missed the deadline that is on you.


----------



## STX

Spfister said:


> Spoken by someone who’s kid has a normal  soccer season and who’s kid hasn’t gone 9 months without playing a game. I bet if your kid was suffering like ours have in CA And not been able to play the sport they love and not been able to practice without staying 6 feet apart… You’d feel much differently about going to a tournament.


For sure. That was kinda the point I was trying to make.


----------



## crush

46n2 said:


> You guys crack me up , your saying watered down tournament , don't go, but for the last three months more than 3/4'rs of you have been driving 6 hours for fucking scrimmages?????
> 
> 
> I hope it happens cause Id like to watch my kids play , but if it doesn't or my team decides not to go or my teams didnt get approved I will/would not be a hater like all of you .  (which alot did , has anyone brought that up, maybe your team wasn't accepted they had to shrink the tournament multiple times)
> 
> You same people are going to shit talk all the winners too, guarantee'd  Oh if my team was there, blah blah blah.
> 
> 
> Seriously some of you guys are posers , like do you really think Surf isn't a great tournament?  Maybe its changed up but its going to be better than anything else going on now, theres teams from all over that come to play (hopefully)
> 
> For as long as I can remember theres always been the shit talkers of Surf Cup and typically their lower level team that don't get accepted
> 
> ps.  HS Soccer is purely for fun, the level of talent is no where near the club level unless the team is stacked 18 deep with club players.


This is classic 46.  HS soccer was for fun but not anymore.  CIF Gold baby!!!  Take that to da bank girlfriend....lol!!  Lot's of fun entertainment going on here at the socal soccer forum.  I was so pissed when my dd original team ((before she started hopping around for free)) got snubbed by Surf Cup that SHE decided to go All Blue to make sure never to be snubbed again.  Like Kicker said, the scouts look for individuals that can ball, not how many Surf Cups and Surf Thanksgiving Cups champion medals one has.  My dd has 5 Gold and three runner ups.  Who on these board have more then one Surf Cup Championship?


----------



## 46n2

HS soccer is only fun because all club players get to be the goat on their team , lets be honest .


----------



## Kicker4Life

Spfister said:


> Spoken by someone who’s kid has a normal  soccer season and who’s kid hasn’t gone 9 months without playing a game. I bet if your kid was suffering like ours have in CA And not been able to play the sport they love and not been able to practice without staying 6 feet apart… You’d feel much differently about going to a tournament.


I believe that is the entire point of their post.


----------



## crush

46n2 said:


> HS soccer is only fun because all club players get to be the goat on their team , lets be honest .


It was fun for my dd because she was new to a school and needed to make some good friends, quickly.  She made Varsity as a FR and got to play with a UCLA bound super stud goat RT and played with other Srs and Jrs and she was taken care of by some really nice girls.  It was fun and we made CIF two years in a row.  Now, my dd get's to return the favor to the underclassman.  All the girls who played GDA are now "eligible" to play and dont need to worry about getting caught.  This will be great HS season for Socal, MOO!!!


----------



## Lavey29

dad4 said:


> Look, we'll all be back in August.  A few, like GT45 are still going.  I hope his family has some nice games.
> 
> But some people are trying to decide if it is worth the trip.  If it is a watered down tournament, maybe they want to know that before they travel 500 miles for some 6-0 games.
> 
> Flip side, if your team is a bit weaker, maybe watered down sounds great.
> 
> But either way people would like to know what it is this year.


And that is fine.  Each family should decide what is in their own best interest not the teams best interest.  Let adults make their own adult decisions.  If I had a young player, I would probably opt not to go due to cost and right in the middle of holiday time period.  With an 03 junior player, it's a different decision as she contacts coaches and needs quality game footage to show them.


----------



## happy9

MSK357 said:


> You didn't know, because you said so yourself that you know nothing about youngers.
> 
> As far as olders, according to you there will be basically 0 teams coming because "someone" told you 400 teams pulled out. Either you were talking out of your ass before, or you are now admitting they are actually coming. Which is it troll?


Ahh, another personal attack when the conversation doesn't fit your view of the world.  At your convenience, browse through my posts.  My discussion has always centered around the olders weekend.  I don't have a younger player so no reason to address them.  Maybe you do and thus your focus.

Isn't it funny, back in the day you would come to a forum like this to gain insight on things that you didn't have line of sight on.  Now this has turned into drawing lines in the sand and planting flags.

I stand by the information I've received.  It's either going to be accurate or not.  The accuracy of the number doesn't really matter to me.  I'm not being deposed nor am I testifying before congress about it - we are talking about a youth soccer tournament.  Sounds like it matters to you.  For the sake of discussing "Surf Cup's Fate", what resonates with me is that fact teams are dropping out at an alarming rate.  If you can't at least admit that then it's impossible to have an honest debate about it.  But feel free to call me a troll, if it makes you feel better.

Lucky for you, as of this morning, Scottsdale Sports Complex still shows as booked by Surf for 27-29 DEC.


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> You crack me up with your doctrinal words - sheep, China Virus, bubble. Isn't it ironic that you use the term sheep?  At least you haven't used snowflake in awhile.
> 
> As far as "hearsay is concerned" I will concede that I'm not 100% sure about the 400 teams pulling.  I'm confident in my source, which happens to have a  direct line to Surf, but that number has yet to be confirmed.  Here is some not hearsay:
> 
> 1.  City of Phoenix will not make fields available
> 2.  City of Peoria will not make fields available
> 3.  City of Tempe will not make fields available
> 4.  Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa  are not accepting field requests
> 6.  Buckeye, Goodyear, Surprise are not allowing tournaments
> 7.  169 ICU beds available today, Banner Health Chief Clinical Officer projects they will reach capacity by end of week and be at 125% capacity next week.  *I'm not a rona hysteric but metrics matter to Surf's fate.  The good rona news is that the fatality rate of those infected continues to drop, even with rising positivity rates.  Good thing right?*
> 8.  AZ ECNL/GA teams are not participating
> 9.  Looks like Norcal ECNL teams are not participating and a growing number of socal ECNL/GA teams are not participating.
> 
> I'm beginning to to think that you have zero connection to any club or youth futbol in general in socal.  As a parent of players that have been playing against Surf teams for years, I have zero reason to trash talk Surf or wish them ill will.  AZ players have benefited from playing Surf teams for as long as I can remember. The CA and AZ youth soccer landscape benefit when Surf is putting on top notch showcases that attracts the "best of the best".
> 
> In this case, this event will not be the best of the best, and they know it.   It's unfortunate but I'm sure they will rebound and put on their Showcases over the summer or coordinate to have those moved out of state.  Cross your fingers that a vaccine is deployed efficiently and that people take it.


So you admit no direct knowledge of 400 teams dropping out yet you post it anyway.  Why would you do that? The only logical reason is because you enjoy trash talking surf. My kid will be there playing on 02/03 ECNL Composite team. I will gladly forward you some game footage and then you can judge the quality of the soccer play and see if it is watered down or not.


----------



## crush

Lavey29 said:


> And that is fine.  Each family should decide what is in their own best interest not the teams best interest.  Let adults make their own adult decisions.  If I had a young player, I would probably opt not to go due to cost and right in the middle of holiday time period.  With an 03 junior player, it's a different decision as she contacts coaches and *needs quality game footage to show them.*


I agree.  2022s have had it real tough over the last three years.  Trying to get fresh game film is next to impossible.  So I decided to get cute.  I made a highlight film of when she was 10-13.  I will post on here for all your entertainment as well.  It's loaded with goals, passes, hard freaking work, broken wrist, sprain ankle, broken bone in foot, head concussion and a bad eye injury to boot.  Dedication like no other.  So many podium dances, I'm not sure I can fit them all in under 3 minutes.  She will let coaches know to come watch her goat it up in HS Soccer.  I would be tickled silly if she gets a deal from HS Soccer game.


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> So you admit no direct knowledge of 400 teams dropping out yet you post it anyway.  Why would you do that? The only logical reason is because you enjoy trash talking surf. My kid will be there playing on 02/03 ECNL Composite team. I will gladly forward you some game footage and then you can judge the quality of the soccer play and see if it is watered down or not.


You are back on the notion that I am trash talking Surf.  Please point out where I have said anything negative about Surf as an organization.  The topic of this discussion is "Surf Cup's Fate".  Your contribution was more meaningful when you were laying out your reasoning for coming to play.  You applied logic for making those decisions and mentioned if you were the parent of a younger, you wouldn't be coming.  I respect both sides of that coin.  

My view is that Surf will not happen and I've laid out some  rationale that I've used to come to that conclusion.  I could very well be wrong, doesn't really matter though.  The back and forth hopefully has been interesting for some and fun for others.

Again, will concede that 400 may or may not be an accurate number - information provided from a trusted source.  If it turns out to be higher or lower, then so be it.  I am confident it's an accurate number but that will be play out on its own.  If it turns out to be completely false or hyperbole, then the criticism is well deserved.  

Hopefully your player gets great footage.  Quality of play is subjective, to some degree.  I'm not here to cast shade on your player and hope they get what they need if the end state is playing at the next level.


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> You are back on the notion that I am trash talking Surf.  Please point out where I have said anything negative about Surf as an organization.  The topic of this discussion is "Surf Cup's Fate".  Your contribution was more meaningful when you were laying out your reasoning for coming to play.  You applied logic for making those decisions and mentioned if you were the parent of a younger, you wouldn't be coming.  I respect both sides of that coin.
> 
> My view is that Surf will not happen and I've laid out some  rationale that I've used to come to that conclusion.  I could very well be wrong, doesn't really matter though.  The back and forth hopefully has been interesting for some and fun for others.
> 
> Again, will concede that 400 may or may not be an accurate number - information provided from a trusted source.  If it turns out to be higher or lower, then so be it.  I am confident it's an accurate number but that will be play out on its own.  If it turns out to be completely false or hyperbole, then the criticism is well deserved.
> 
> Hopefully your player gets great footage.  Quality of play is subjective, to some degree.  I'm not here to cast shade on your player and hope they get what they need if the end state is playing at the next level.


I'm still holding out hope it's on.  I need my debt forgiven big time from Eagle.  If youngers happens, my debt is free and clear.  I need some hope for 2021 and having debts wiped cleaned is a welcomed thought in my brain right about now.  I have a few friends who are all signed up to go.


----------



## PruritusAniFC

crush said:


> I'm still holding out hope it's on.  I need my debt forgiven big time from Eagle.  If youngers happens, my debt is free and clear.  I need some hope for 2021 and having debts wiped cleaned is a welcomed thought in my brain right about now.  I have a few friends who are all signed up to go.


What is the debt up to now? $100.00?


----------



## MacDre

Lavey29 said:


> With an 03 junior player, it's a different decision as she contacts coaches and needs quality game footage to show them.


Aren’t schools waiving SAT’s & ACT’s due to Covid?  If so, do you seriously believe a coach that is asking for recent game footage is interested in your kid or just pissing in their face and calling it rain?


----------



## crush

PruritusAniFC said:


> What is the debt up to now? $100.00?


I owe him a Keg of beer of his choice or a barrel of Whisky of my choice if no Surf Cup Dec28th-Jan4th.  Youngers or Olders.  It doesn't have to be best of the best either.  It started back in August, then Sept, then Nov and now these dates.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MacDre said:


> Aren’t schools waiving SAT’s & ACT’s due to Covid?  If so, do you seriously believe a coach that is asking for recent game footage is interested in your kid or just pissing in their face and calling it rain?


I’ll give you one example, Player is a center back (converted from a left back three years ago),  2 coaches are interested in her as an outside back, but would like to see footage of her playing outside back.  Since there are no games for us to play where the coach could put her in outside back, She doesn’t have any recent footage of her playing outside back.


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> Aren’t schools waiving SAT’s & ACT’s due to Covid?  If so, do you seriously believe a coach that is asking for recent game footage is interested in your kid or just pissing in their face and calling it rain?


The coaches all told my dd the same thing.  I love what I see and let's talk some more next year.  Jrs are in a good spot.  No rushing this process.  Big West had no season for the girls.  I love that league so next year 5 classes.  If no soccer next year, then in 2022 6 classes to compete?  Talk about a 6th year 24 year old Senior trying out for a spot with a fresh incoming 18 year old will be tough.  These are changing times for sure Dre.  Peace brah!!!


----------



## dad4

MacDre said:


> Aren’t schools waiving SAT’s & ACT’s due to Covid?  If so, do you seriously believe a coach that is asking for recent game footage is interested in your kid or just pissing in their face and calling it rain?


Since when do coaches toe a line set by SAT and ACT?

Those two tests are unnecessary burdens set by admissions, not some clue to what you actually do.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Glitterhater said:


> Why doesn't surf just put out a list of confirmed teams? That would solve a lot of speculation, right?


It’s less than 3 weeks to younger’s surf tourney and surf still can’t say what fields they’ll play on or provide a schedule. I think that’s a pretty good indication it’s not going to happen. Our club already pulled out and I’m bummed that my younger won’t get to go play.


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> Since when do coaches toe a line set by SAT and ACT?
> 
> Those two tests are unnecessary burdens set by admissions, not some clue to what you actually do.


I was a good boy and I asked Santa for a few things this year.  One of them was to get rid of the SAT test


----------



## Lavey29

MacDre said:


> Aren’t schools waiving SAT’s & ACT’s due to Covid?  If so, do you seriously believe a coach that is asking for recent game footage is interested in your kid or just pissing in their face and calling it rain?


Schools are waiving SAT and ACT for several reasons. Covid is one but there is also litigation arguing the SAT and ACT are biased towards under performing schools and students thus preventing them from getting into good colleges. They want to eliminate SAT and ACT test entirely.  Game footage is mandatory it seems. Several coaches talked to her about their programs while she was at ID camp 2 months back and they asked for game footage video which we did not have due to canceled spring and fall season. My kid is  4.5gpa and as a junior she is already taking 2 college courses. Academics are the key to her college future and career in life. Soccer is just an added bonus if a coach has interest.


----------



## MacDre

dad4 said:


> Since when do coaches toe a line set by SAT and ACT?
> 
> Those two tests are unnecessary burdens set by admissions, not some clue to what you actually do.


Agreed.  I just feel bad for the kids that got caught up in this mess.  And at the risk of sounding cynical, I think asking for recent game footage now is another layer of unnecessary BS this cohort of kids is gonna have to deal with.  Sad.

I understand why a coach may want recent film under normal circumstances but I just don’t see film provided during Covid as being of much value.  Kinda seems like folks are going through the motions and checking boxes.


----------



## crush

Lavey29 said:


> Schools are waiving SAT and ACT for several reasons. Covid is one but there is also litigation arguing the SAT and ACT are biased towards under performing schools and students thus preventing them from getting into good colleges. They want to eliminate SAT and ACT test entirely.  Game footage is mandatory it seems. Several coaches talked to her about their programs while she was at ID camp 2 months back and they asked for game footage video which we did not have due to canceled spring and fall season. My kid is  4.5gpa and as a junior she is already taking 2 college courses. Academics are the key to her college future and career in life. Soccer is just an added bonus if a coach has interest.


I know of a coach ((not one my kid is looking to play for, FYI)) who is waiting so he can see who is truly in love with soccer & school.  He told me he used to lose half his recruits because of burn out and over use of the female body.  Some with tears and rips and some girls are just tired.  Dad is not around to make sure she's at practice and they quit.  100% can understand that. Although these last 10 months have been hell on so many of us, we will be better and come back even stronger.  Education is super important for all folks and I hope all can get access to it.  No more paying people to take the SAT test for their kiddo or pay $250,000 for a spot.  That's good coin btw


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> You are back on the notion that I am trash talking Surf.  Please point out where I have said anything negative about Surf as an organization.  The topic of this discussion is "Surf Cup's Fate".  Your contribution was more meaningful when you were laying out your reasoning for coming to play.  You applied logic for making those decisions and mentioned if you were the parent of a younger, you wouldn't be coming.  I respect both sides of that coin.
> 
> My view is that Surf will not happen and I've laid out some  rationale that I've used to come to that conclusion.  I could very well be wrong, doesn't really matter though.  The back and forth hopefully has been interesting for some and fun for others.
> 
> Again, will concede that 400 may or may not be an accurate number - information provided from a trusted source.  If it turns out to be higher or lower, then so be it.  I am confident it's an accurate number but that will be play out on its own.  If it turns out to be completely false or hyperbole, then the criticism is well deserved.
> 
> Hopefully your player gets great footage.  Quality of play is subjective, to some degree.  I'm not here to cast shade on your player and hope they get what they need if the end state is playing at the next level.


Happy, I'm not going to debate this anymore with you. On December 2 you posted "I DON'T KNOW ANYONE WITHIN THE SURF ORGANIZATION " but yet you post 400 teams dropped out without any direct knowledge of it being accurate.  That is just plain trash talking a club and I will leave it at that.

Yes, I hope to get some good footage to add to my kids highlight video that a company is preparing for me. Thank you for wishing my kid my kid success.


----------



## MacDre

crush said:


> Education is super important for all folks and I hope all can get access to it.


I agree, but be careful.  I attended public universities and graduated from professional school with no debt.  School is so much more expensive now and young adults are starting their lives burdened with substantial debt.  I doubt that I would attend law school at today’s prices.


----------



## Lavey29

MacDre said:


> Agreed.  I just feel bad for the kids that got caught up in this mess.  And at the risk of sounding cynical, I think asking for recent game footage now is another layer of unnecessary BS this cohort of kids is gonna have to deal with.  Sad.
> 
> I understand why a coach may want recent film under normal circumstances but I just don’t see film provided during Covid as being of much value.  Kinda seems like folks are going through the motions and checking boxes.


Coaches are still recruiting but have changed methods due to the China virus. They did not know if there would even be a season for college soccer and seniors are afforded another year of eligibility due to the virus disruption of the normal season. 

3 coaches that have seen my kid play at ID clinics have asked for game video so I need to help my kid get some. 90% of scholarships are for academics so that is what she focuses on and if she gets a chance to play at the college level that's an added bo us. She is choosing a school that has degree fields she is interested in not because they have a good or average soccer program.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

46n2 said:


> HS soccer is only fun because all club players get to be the goat on their team , lets be honest .


And they play with their HS friends and often times against their club teammates from the other HS.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

dad4 said:


> Since when do coaches toe a line set by SAT and ACT?
> 
> Those two tests are unnecessary burdens set by admissions, not some clue to what you actually do.


It matters to the Ivies (or very recently changed) and Stanford.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

crush said:


> It was fun for my dd because she was new to a school and needed to make some good friends, quickly.  She made Varsity as a FR and got to play with a UCLA bound super stud goat RT and played with other Srs and Jrs and she was taken care of by some really nice girls.  It was fun and we made CIF two years in a row.  Now, my dd get's to return the favor to the underclassman.  All the girls who played GDA are now "eligible" to play and dont need to worry about getting caught.  This will be great HS season for Socal, MOO!!!


Alright Crush!  You have been talking about your goat for years.   Time to give details. Where is she going for college? Where is she ranked (if she is a senior) on the top drawer or whatever it’s called.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

MacDre said:


> I agree, but be careful.  I attended public universities and graduated from professional school with no debt.  School is so much more expensive now and young adults are starting their lives burdened with substantial debt.  I doubt that I would attend law school at today’s prices.


Agreed.  I got my BA and MBA at CSUF and doing well  now.

 It’s not worth getting so much in debt.  2 years of community college and then 2 years at a big school is always an optio.


----------



## Glitterhater

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Agreed.  I got my BA and MBA at CSUF and doing well  now.
> 
> It’s not worth getting so much in debt.  2 years of community college and then 2 years at a big school is always an optio.


And, if I'm not mistaken, isn't 2 years at community college free? (Or maybe that's just in CA, not sure where you're located.)


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Glitterhater said:


> And, if I'm not mistaken, isn't 2 years at community college free? (Or maybe that's just in CA, not sure where you're located.)


Looks like it if you are a first-time student and attend full-time. It's also free to HS students who can get dual enrollment credits.









						California joins a handful of other states that provide community college tuition-free
					

California will provide free tuition for two years of community college to first-time, full-time California students.




					www.cnn.com


----------



## MSK357

happy9 said:


> Ahh, another personal attack when the conversation doesn't fit your view of the world.  At your convenience, browse through my posts.  My discussion has always centered around the olders weekend.  I don't have a younger player so no reason to address them.  Maybe you do and thus your focus.
> 
> Isn't it funny, back in the day you would come to a forum like this to gain insight on things that you didn't have line of sight on.  Now this has turned into drawing lines in the sand and planting flags.
> 
> I stand by the information I've received.  It's either going to be accurate or not.  The accuracy of the number doesn't really matter to me.  I'm not being deposed nor am I testifying before congress about it - we are talking about a youth soccer tournament.  Sounds like it matters to you.  For the sake of discussing "Surf Cup's Fate", what resonates with me is that fact teams are dropping out at an alarming rate.  If you can't at least admit that then it's impossible to have an honest debate about it.  But feel free to call me a troll, if it makes you feel better.
> 
> Lucky for you, as of this morning, Scottsdale Sports Complex still shows as booked by Surf for 27-29 DEC.


You should preface that you do not have any first hand knowledge of what will happen for surf for olders. Like you said, this is a place where people come for information, not misinformation. In your case it seems to cause drama purely for entertainment value. I get it, you're bored, nothing else for you to do during this pandemic.


----------



## 46n2

SoccerFan4Life said:


> And they play with their HS friends and often times against their club teammates from the other HS.


exactly !!  They have alot of fun


----------



## MacDre

kickingandscreaming said:


> Looks like it if you are a first-time student and attend full-time. It's also free to HS students who can get dual enrollment credits.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California joins a handful of other states that provide community college tuition-free
> 
> 
> California will provide free tuition for two years of community college to first-time, full-time California students.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com


If your kid is a first generation college student or disenfranchised there are also more formal programs also.  Cal and UCLA are backups for kids that excel in middle college high school.






						Middle College / Homepage
					






					www.wccusd.net


----------



## LASTMAN14

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Agreed.  I got my BA and MBA at CSUF and doing well  now.
> 
> It’s not worth getting so much in debt.  2 years of community college and then 2 years at a big school is always an optio.


An old teammate played at CSUF from 93-94 if I have my years correct.


----------



## jayjay

If Surf Cup goes, anyone have input on who will be doing the referee assigning and contact info?


----------



## happy9

MSK357 said:


> You should preface that you do not have any first hand knowledge of what will happen for surf for olders. Like you said, this is a place where people come for information, not misinformation. *In your case it seems to cause drama purely for entertainment value. I get it, you're bored, nothing else for you to do during this pandemic.*


Let's agree to disagree and circle back early next week.  Outside of the 400 team number I provided you (which I've clearly placed context around), what's been discussed is information that you could research on your own, all available on the interweb and the google.  You just refuse to have a civil conversation and resort to silly personal accusations.

We can put this to bed for now and see how this plays out.


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> I agree, but be careful.  I attended public universities and graduated from professional school with no debt.  School is so much more expensive now and young adults are starting their lives burdened with substantial debt.  I doubt that I would attend law school at today’s prices.


It was way cheaper for me too.  I hopped around from JC to JC ((go figure)) in the 80s and then finally got to a school in Pomona.  Four classes short of my BS in Kinesiology.  I thought it was PE but I got fooled and I was taking classes with Pre Med students.  I had one Professor who graded on a curve and I happen to be in the class with all the next Drs.  I got an F and never took the class again.   I owed $10,000 and paid it all off before I got married. My wife owed $20K because she studied in Germany for a year and I ended up having to pay if off for her when we got married.   Today, some of these kids owe a small house payment and no job work at.  My son just signed a lease for a frat house at SDSU for next Fall.  $900 a month for one room, no food.  He asked if I would help him with some food money and I said, "I ate Top Ramen dude and so can you."  He was sad but then said he will work part time for his entrainment funds and a new car he wants to save for.  I told him I would like to save for a car too but now I have to pay for his food.  No one helped me, no one except Mr Pell and Mr Stanford.  JC is the way to go.  My dd is seriously think of taking classes online at Orange Coast College when she turns 17.  Forget AP, just take some online JC courses.


----------



## crush

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Alright Crush! * You have been talking about your goat for years. *  Time to give details. Where is she going for college? Where is she ranked (if she is a senior) on the top drawer or whatever it’s called.


Years????  I did back in 2013-2015.  Then I was asked kindly not to come on here let alone post.  It was 100% a no or else.  One dude told me he was thinking of buying the socal soccer forum.  They all lurke here and some even post.  I know them all too well.  Regarding where my dd is going to go to college, I  honestly have no idea.  She does want to go and play soccer.  The net is all over and she is taking a wait and see approach.  Her video is old so were in the process of replacing 2018 stuff with 5 new highlights from ECNL Showcase.  She has emailed and has received some really nice feed back.  One full ride ((as long as she carries 3.7)) and one who is is 100% interested and so is she.  I can't name schools out of respect to my goat.  Both of these programs are top schools.  One is knocking on the door for NCAA invite and the other one goes almost every year.  Lot's of potential at both. She has her hope one or two to just show some interest.  I think they will when they see her play with all the other top goats her age.  
Rankings?  I never signed her up bro for that service.  I was poor at the time when we were told  what to do.  I personally thought it was sort of weak but now I understand why its good for some and I hold no bitterness.  I see the top 150 and who from socal is on there.  She has great friends in the top 30.  MOO, I think she is one of the most competitive females i have ever met.  Between her and my wife, she's the real deal.  My wife said she's never met anyone like her.  A force to reckon with and a great teammate who will put her body on the line for the "W."  Will play were ever she is told. Her only ask is to treat her with respect and super important to her, play to win and win means make the playoffs every year or at least go all out for the college cup.  I have no idea where that ranks but every coach she has played for always fins a place for her on the field.


----------



## Chalklines

Lavey29 said:


> And that is fine.  Each family should decide what is in their own best interest not the teams best interest.  Let adults make their own adult decisions.  If I had a young player, I would probably opt not to go due to cost and right in the middle of holiday time period.  With an 03 junior player, it's a different decision as she contacts coaches and needs quality game footage to show them.


most of the users freaking out have ulittles with pro careers in their future.


----------



## EOTL

crush said:


> Years????  I did back in 2013-2015.  Then I was asked kindly not to come on here let alone post.  It was 100% a no or else.  One dude told me he was thinking of buying the socal soccer forum.  They all lurke here and some even post.  I know them all too well.  Regarding where my dd is going to go to college, I  honestly have no idea.  She does want to go and play soccer.  The net is all over and she is taking a wait and see approach.  Her video is old so were in the process of replacing 2018 stuff with 5 new highlights from ECNL Showcase.  She has emailed and has received some really nice feed back.  One full ride ((as long as she carries 3.7)) and one who is is 100% interested and so is she.  I can't name schools out of respect to my goat.  Both of these programs are top schools.  One is knocking on the door for NCAA invite and the other one goes almost every year.  Lot's of potential at both. She has her hope one or two to just show some interest.  I think they will when they see her play with all the other top goats her age.
> Rankings?  I never signed her up bro for that service.  I was poor at the time when we were told  what to do.  I personally thought it was sort of weak but now I understand why its good for some and I hold no bitterness.  I see the top 150 and who from socal is on there.  She has great friends in the top 30.  MOO, I think she is one of the most competitive females i have ever met.  Between her and my wife, she's the real deal.  My wife said she's never met anyone like her.  A force to reckon with and a great teammate who will put her body on the line for the "W."  Will play were ever she is told. Her only ask is to treat her with respect and super important to her, play to win and win means make the playoffs every year or at least go all out for the college cup.  I have no idea where that ranks but every coach she has played for always fins a place for her on the field.


Good for your daughter.


----------



## ITFC Blues

46n2 said:


> HS soccer is only fun because all club players get to be the goat on their team , lets be honest .


The fact that it is fun is exactly why people play HS soccer.  That's one of the best things about it.  If the players aren't having fun playing club soccer then that's a problem.  Being fun is not the negative that you make it out to be.


----------



## dad4

Chalklines said:


> most of the users freaking out have ulittles with pro careers in their future.


Really?  The future WNT star and I are in hermit mode right now.   Missing Surf is a bummer, but she still has enough time to collect a half dozen blue jackets.

( The nice thing about covid is that, with no games, I can delude myself with absolutely no fear of a reality check. )


----------



## EOTL

46n2 said:


> HS soccer is only fun because all club players get to be the goat on their team , lets be honest .


HS soccer can be fun because spending time with friends is an enjoyable experience. 

Also, many of these girls put in years of hard work doing something that is very isolating as it relates to their HS peers and experience, and with zero recognition from their peers. They see the HS football and basketball players getting recognized by their peers, singers and actors getting recognition for their plays and musicals, even cheerleaders for cheering. But all they get are a handful of parents and occasionally college scouts at their club games, and classmates hearing rumors that maybe she’s a really good soccer player but thinks she is too good for them to play in HS. HS soccer provides an avenue to get the recognition they deserve, and that is a big deal.


----------



## watfly

EOTL said:


> HS soccer can be fun because spending time with friends is an enjoyable experience.
> 
> Also, many of these girls put in years of hard work doing something that is very isolating as it relates to their HS peers and experience, and with zero recognition from their peers. They see the HS football and basketball players getting recognized by their peers, singers and actors getting recognition for their plays and musicals, even cheerleaders for cheering. But all they get are a handful of parents and occasionally college scouts at their club games, and classmates hearing rumors that maybe she’s a really good soccer player but thinks she is too good for them to play in HS. HS soccer provides an avenue to get the recognition they deserve, and that is a big deal.


A glimpse of humanity.  Well said.


----------



## Dargle

EOTL said:


> HS soccer can be fun because spending time with friends is an enjoyable experience.
> 
> Also, many of these girls put in years of hard work doing something that is very isolating as it relates to their HS peers and experience, and with zero recognition from their peers. They see the HS football and basketball players getting recognized by their peers, singers and actors getting recognition for their plays and musicals, even cheerleaders for cheering. But all they get are a handful of parents and occasionally college scouts at their club games, and classmates hearing rumors that maybe she’s a really good soccer player but thinks she is too good for them to play in HS. HS soccer provides an avenue to get the recognition they deserve, and that is a big deal.


On the boys' side, this seems less of a factor, at least from the kids I have known who have had a choice. Not sure why, but one common complaint I have heard from top male players is that the kids in school soccer spent most of practice fooling around and not listening to their coach.  That leads to running or chaos, neither of which is much fun to serious players who just want to play.  When you add in the fact that HS soccer isn't getting many fans anyway compared to football and basketball (at least in LA), the attraction isn't all that great.  Maybe it's different in Orange County or San Diego.


----------



## EOTL

watfly said:


> A glimpse of humanity.  Well said.


Thank you. If someone is civil, so am I. It’s really that simple. If they are, I will show them by way of example why it is not the best approach.


----------



## EOTL

Dargle said:


> On the boys' side, this seems less of a factor, at least from the kids I have known who have had a choice. Not sure why, but one common complaint I have heard from top male players is that the kids in school soccer spent most of practice fooling around and not listening to their coach.  That leads to running or chaos, neither of which is much fun to serious players who just want to play.  When you add in the fact that HS soccer isn't getting many fans anyway compared to football and basketball (at least in LA), the attraction isn't all that great.  Maybe it's different in Orange County or San Diego.


I don’t doubt what you are saying. Boys and girls soccer are very different sports.


----------



## EOTL

EOTL said:


> Thank you. If someone is civil, so am I. It’s really that simple. If they are, I will show them by way of example why it is not the best approach.


*aren’t.


----------



## Giesbock

crush said:


> This is classic 46.  HS soccer was for fun but not anymore.  CIF Gold baby!!!  Take that to da bank girlfriend....lol!!  Lot's of fun entertainment going on here at the socal soccer forum.  I was so pissed when my dd original team ((before she started hopping around for free)) got snubbed by Surf Cup that SHE decided to go All Blue to make sure never to be snubbed again.  Like Kicker said, the scouts look for individuals that can ball, not how many Surf Cups and Surf Thanksgiving Cups champion medals one has.  My dd has 5 Gold and three runner ups.  Who on these board have more then one Surf Cup Championship?


I am happy for your daughter’s impressive collection of hardware. At the same time, I’m happy that coaches and scouts aren’t making recruiting decisions based on that ‘cause my player has exactly zero medals! .
But seriously, watching that chapter of her soccer journey must have been super fun for your entire family!


----------



## crush

Chalklines said:


> most of the users freaking out have ulittles with pro careers in their future.


Bro, that was me 100%.  Cut me some slack.  I had coaches from England telling me so much BS I believed.  Life goes on.  I tell guys like Luis to just wait until they turn 15.


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> HS soccer can be fun because spending time with friends is an enjoyable experience.
> 
> Also, many of these girls put in years of hard work doing something that is very isolating as it relates to their HS peers and experience, and with zero recognition from their peers. They see the HS football and basketball players getting recognized by their peers, singers and actors getting recognition for their plays and musicals, even cheerleaders for cheering. But all they get are a handful of parents and occasionally college scouts at their club games, and classmates hearing rumors that maybe she’s a really good soccer player but thinks she is too good for them to play in HS. HS soccer provides an avenue to get the recognition they deserve, and that is a big deal.


I have to agree with all of this.  Plus, if you were in the old GDA, your were forbid to play HS and have fun with your friends you will be friends with for life.


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> I don’t doubt what you are saying. Boys and girls soccer are very different sports.


Plus, if I was top boy player and getting offers from Europe, I'm not playing hs soccer, no way.  However, girls' are not getting paid ((yet)) so no reason to give up fun for peanuts.  Pay up and my dd will ball full time.  No pay, then just play for fun and see if college deal is worth the hard work it takes to actually play at a top D1 school.  It's hard core!!!


----------



## crush

Giesbock said:


> I am happy for your daughter’s impressive collection of hardware. At the same time, I’m happy that coaches and scouts aren’t making recruiting decisions based on that ‘cause my player has exactly zero medals! .
> But seriously, watching that chapter of her soccer journey must have been super fun for your entire family!


I was told by Tad that college coaches do NOT recruit medals or winning teams.  It looks good on the resume only.  Also, my dd was very lucky ((blessed)) to play with some really great players who made her look good.  I'm serious, the only goal she got going coast to coast was that one back at Far West with no time on the clock.  All the other goals were passes by some of the best CM in the country, no joke.  The journey was super fun until college night started for her in 7th grade.  That was a pressure cooker for so many of the young girls.  It hasn't been that fun unfortunately but it how you finish the race that counts.  It's not fun right now, that's for sure.


----------



## crush

LASTMAN14 said:


> An old teammate played at CSUF from 93-94 if I have my years correct.


Titans had one of the best men's soccer teams back in the day.  Not sure when, but they were real good.


----------



## notintheface

You would expect the schedule to be posted this weekend for youngers.

Here's a fun story for you that is in no way relevant to Surf Cup. A few years ago in (I want to say) Camarillo, first game Saturday is the early field-opening game, and second game is the afternoon shift. Show up for early morning warmups and checkin, and discover that two teams out of our four-team bracket pulled out at the last minute -- I think it was wildfire related? Only one bracket for our group. Whoops. Anyways, no games on Saturday. We want to run an intra-team lightweight scrimmage during our game times and the TD in his infinite wisdom says no, no availability. Families wind up going back to various hotels.

We win our Sunday morning game and immediately break for lunch / rest before the rematch in the "final". Come back to the field Sunday afternoon and find that there are zero refs, opposing team has bailed, and the TD isn't going to post it as a forfeit, ie there's no bracket winner and no championship (or third place) game. Early morning Saturday drive + hotel etc for precisely one game. Parents were (rightfully) livid and last I remember the team was able to get a small refund back.

Anyways, enjoy your Sunday-Monday-Tuesday-after-Christmas tournament, youngers, I am sure there will be no scheduling problems whatsoever.


----------



## Anon9

notintheface said:


> You would expect the schedule to be posted this weekend for youngers.


Both tournaments we went to in Arizona released their schedule 1 week before the tournament. Too many unknowns. Field permits can be pulled last minute.


----------



## GT45

Soccerfan2 said:


> It’s less than 3 weeks to younger’s surf tourney and surf still can’t say what fields they’ll play on or provide a schedule. I think that’s a pretty good indication it’s not going to happen. Our club already pulled out and I’m bummed that my younger won’t get to go play.


Since when do tournaments have schedules out three weeks in advance? 

In addition, Surf just found out they lost the fields a week ago. Give them a moment to establish a schedule. Geez...


----------



## davin

Our club in NorCal announced that they are shutting down practice for the next few weeks because of orders from the city.  I’m betting this story about a youth bball team that played in tournament in another county, which led to a big outbreak, is a big factor that led the city to shutdown practices.









						Large Coronavirus Outbreak Traced to Santa Clara County Youth Basketball Team | San Jose Inside
					

Public health officials today said the outbreak spread to at least 94 players, coaches and close contacts in three counties.




					www.sanjoseinside.com


----------



## kickingandscreaming

davin said:


> Our club in NorCal announced that they are shutting down practice for the next few weeks because of orders from the city.  I’m betting this story about a youth bball team that played in tournament in another county, which led to a big outbreak, is a big factor that led the city to shutdown practices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Large Coronavirus Outbreak Traced to Santa Clara County Youth Basketball Team | San Jose Inside
> 
> 
> Public health officials today said the outbreak spread to at least 94 players, coaches and close contacts in three counties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sanjoseinside.com


So, we have basketball, a game that brings players in closer proximity for longer periods of time being played indoors while an ECNL soccer game hasn't been played in CA for over a year? How does that happen?


----------



## soccer4us

kickingandscreaming said:


> So, we have basketball, a game that brings players in closer proximity for longer periods of time being played indoors while an ECNL soccer game hasn't been played in CA for over a year? How does that happen?


Placer county isn't really California. Closer to Idaho  especially as you keep going north in the county.  That's basically how. Private owner of the basketball facility hosts a tournament and teams come. It's not rented like city fields. Maybe 2 weeks ago there was an article about that tournament. The owned basically said it's safe and held another one a week later.


----------



## Glitterhater

soccer4us said:


> Placer county isn't really California. Closer to Idaho  especially as you keep going north in the county.  That's basically how. Private owner of the basketball facility hosts a tournament and teams come. It's not rented like city fields. Maybe 2 weeks ago there was an article about that tournament. The owned basically said it's safe and held another one a week later.


The part of Placer county this occurred in is about, oh.. 90 miles from San Francisco? East up 80. And, my DD used to use this facility for Futsal back in the Ulittle days.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

soccer4us said:


> Placer county isn't really California. Closer to Idaho  especially as you keep going north in the county.  That's basically how. Private owner of the basketball facility hosts a tournament and teams come. It's not rented like city fields. Maybe 2 weeks ago there was an article about that tournament. The owned basically said it's safe and held another one a week later.


Yeah, you are right. It pretty much comes down to whether the local government controls the game facility.


----------



## soccer4us

Glitterhater said:


> The part of Placer county this occurred in is about, oh.. 90 miles from San Francisco? East up 80. And, my DD used to use this facility for Futsal back in the Ulittle days.


I think it was Rocklin which is a decent city but in general Placer County is very masks don't matter that much on average(my cousin lives up there so have some knowledge). Hope the soccer clubs are mad at the basketball teams!


----------



## soccer4us

kickingandscreaming said:


> Yeah, you are right. It pretty much comes down to whether the local government controls the game facility.


From what I heard after the first tournament occurred, no one from the county and sheriff department really tried to put a stop to it. Kind of like oh well. Much tougher at a private facility but clearly some rules were broken with an actual tournament









						More than two dozen Covid-19 cases were traced to youth basketball at a California gym, health officials say | CNN
					

Health officials say the outbreak occurred at a gym in Northern California where tournaments were held despite the state's pandemic-related prohibition against youth sports competitions.




					www.cnn.com


----------



## 46n2

ITFC Blues said:


> The fact that it is fun is exactly why people play HS soccer.  That's one of the best things about it.  If the players aren't having fun playing club soccer then that's a problem.  Being fun is not the negative that you make it out to be.


 I don’t remember being negative towards high school soccer , it’s less competitive and the kids can have fun, well maybe the parents are a negative , screaming from the bleachers


----------



## Glitterhater

soccer4us said:


> I think it was Rocklin which is a decent city but in general Placer County is very masks don't matter that much on average(my cousin lives up there so have some knowledge). Hope the soccer clubs are mad at the basketball teams!


Yes, exactly. It's very much "what 'rona?" For the most part. The sheriff has said on more than one account that they will not be enforcing any lockdown measures.


----------



## Toe poke

jayjay said:


> If Surf Cup goes, anyone have input on who will be doing the referee assigning and contact info?


is this tournament even still happening?


----------



## MrCruett

soccer4us said:


> Hope the soccer clubs are mad at the basketball teams!


Don't player hate. Celebrate.


----------



## Footy30

46n2 said:


> I don’t remember being negative towards high school soccer , it’s less competitive and the kids can have fun, well maybe the parents are a negative , screaming from the bleachers


haha, isn't this the case with most games, no matter the level? (screaming parents) I swear if they allowed CA to play but didn't allow parentals on the side line I think it would make for lots of happy players!! hahahaha (not all players I know, before some people get all crazy on here, but a lot of players definitely)


----------



## ITFC Blues

46n2 said:


> I don’t remember being negative towards high school soccer , it’s less competitive and the kids can have fun, well maybe the parents are a negative , screaming from the bleachers


I just sounded like a put down at first glance.  Thanks for clarifying and reminding me about the parents, oh yes the parents who think it's way more important than it is.


----------



## MrCruett

soccer4us said:


> From what I heard after the first tournament occurred, no one from the county and sheriff department really tried to put a stop to it. Kind of like oh well. Much tougher at a private facility but clearly some rules were broken with an actual tournament
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More than two dozen Covid-19 cases were traced to youth basketball at a California gym, health officials say | CNN
> 
> 
> Health officials say the outbreak occurred at a gym in Northern California where tournaments were held despite the state's pandemic-related prohibition against youth sports competitions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnn.com


My oldest son has played there. I recall seeing a Placer United sign a couple doors down from the bball place. Anyone know if they are training inside? It would seem just as risky as the bball.


----------



## Glitterhater

MrCruett said:


> My oldest son has played there. I recall seeing a Placer United sign a couple doors down from the bball place. Anyone know if they are training inside? It would seem just as risky as the bball.


Placer is a couple doors down, and yes- I knew they were training inside as recently as October, (the last time I spoke to a parent there.)

For clarity: that building and Placer's building are at the end of a court, (a stone's throw from each other.)


----------



## Jose has returned

Would the folks that want to cancel surf cup be okay with it if everyone got covid tested prior to the tournament?


----------



## Lavey29

Jose has returned said:


> Would the folks that want to cancel surf cup be okay with it if everyone got covid tested prior to the tournament?
> 
> 
> I had to take a covid test 3 days before my surgery this past Tuesday in order to be allowed admittance in the hospital.  I understand their reasoning and not wanting patients or staff compromised.


----------



## oh canada

Jose has returned said:


> Would the folks that want to cancel surf cup be okay with it if everyone got covid tested prior to the tournament?


Testing people one moment in time whether they are positive wouldn't make a difference for me.

I see Surf as Big Tobacco.  They have a product (event) that they KNOW carries elevated health risks for a large group of people yet they don't care about human health and lives because they need or want $$.  They know by putting the product out there and advertising it with marketing puffery, people will come.  There are thousands of youth soccer addicts, just as there are millions who can't stop sucking on their Marlboros.  The medical community discourages smoking but Philip Morris ignores them.  Surf likewise ignores the AZ and CA medical communities who vehemently plead to cancel because hospital beds are becoming as scarce as USMNT World Cup goals.

Just think about it for a bit before reacting...Surf wants you to: Come play a kids game, during the worst health crisis the world has seen in 100 years, in a location that now has the highest rate of spread in the entire country (source below), staying and eating in this location for several days, over the festive Xmas and New Year's Eve holidays no less, against the advice of almost all medical personnel, and in direct conflict with your state's travel and gathering orders (which also then require 14 days of self-quarantine upon return).  

Please tell me what "corporate recklessness" means if that is not it.

Source: https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/coronavirus_coverage/arizona-has-highest-rate-of-covid-19-spread-in-the-nation/article_355ab83c-3bfd-11eb-a0cd-5f61070a2e3e.html


----------



## Soccerfan2

GT45 said:


> Since when do tournaments have schedules out three weeks in advance?
> 
> In addition, Surf just found out they lost the fields a week ago. Give them a moment to establish a schedule. Geez...


Maybe? I hope kids get to play. My girls were looking forward to it and are bummed they aren’t playing.


----------



## Chalklines

Jose has returned said:


> Would the folks that want to cancel surf cup be okay with it if everyone got covid tested prior to the tournament?


Why don't people understand its not the soccer at the tournament that's the problem? It's all the idiot parents who turn the weekend into a booze cruise and bar hop all weekend. Testings pointless before and testing afters pointless because only 1% of people going will actually self quarantine for two weeks after the tournament. 

We're in the middle of a PANDEMIC with idiots who don't care. Bringing your kids into a hot spot like AZ right after Christmas travel is a joke for a watered down surf cup. 

Who's really going to be at high risk are the olders playing New Years........yikes 

On a side note... Im curious if Cal South will eventually require a vaccination card for play moving into late 2021? That will be the next question moving forward for a return to everything.


----------



## socalkdg

davin said:


> Our club in NorCal announced that they are shutting down practice for the next few weeks because of orders from the city.  I’m betting this story about a youth bball team that played in tournament in another county, which led to a big outbreak, is a big factor that led the city to shutdown practices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Large Coronavirus Outbreak Traced to Santa Clara County Youth Basketball Team | San Jose Inside
> 
> 
> Public health officials today said the outbreak spread to at least 94 players, coaches and close contacts in three counties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sanjoseinside.com


Experts from all countries have said you are approx 15x as likely to get covid indoors as opposed to outdoors.  Sadly soccer gets punished because of basketball and volleyball.


----------



## Grace T.

Chalklines said:


> On a side note... Im curious if Cal South will eventually require a vaccination card for play moving into late 2021? That will be the next question moving forward for a return to everything.


Because a couple vaccines have hit snags (in testing or manufacturing), the time line for getting the kids vaccine approved and widely circulated is looking a little more shaky.  My friend who's with the AAP said initially late spring.  Now it's looking like maybe spring-late spring for the 17-18 year olds, late spring to early summer for children with a risk profile (like the Downs, cancer and diabetic kids), mid summer,-mid fall for all other kids....assuming there are no more hiccups in testing and manufacturing.  It will be hard for schools and sports orgs to mandate it if it isn't widely available.

BTW, the timeline for testing infants and pregnant women is also dubious.  If you know anyone who really wants a vaccine but is childbearing age, might not be the best time to consider taking that step.


----------



## Grace T.

Grace T. said:


> Because a couple vaccines have hit snags (in testing or manufacturing), the time line for getting the kids vaccine approved and widely circulated is looking a little more shaky.  My friend who's with the AAP said initially late spring.  Now it's looking like maybe spring-late spring for the 17-18 year olds, late spring to early summer for children with a risk profile (like the Downs, cancer and diabetic kids), mid summer,-mid fall for all other kids....assuming there are no more hiccups in testing and manufacturing.  It will be hard for schools and sports orgs to mandate it if it isn't widely available.
> 
> BTW, the timeline for testing infants and pregnant women is also dubious.  If you know anyone who really wants a vaccine but is childbearing age, might not be the best time to consider taking that step.











						Doctors weigh in on a COVID-19 vaccine timeline for small children and pregnant women
					

“A critical group for us to go ahead and make sure it’s very safe in…is obviously children.”




					www.wivb.com


----------



## dad4

Chalklines said:


> Why don't people understand its not the soccer at the tournament that's the problem? It's all the idiot parents who turn the weekend into a booze cruise and bar hop all weekend. Testings pointless before and testing afters pointless because only 1% of people going will actually self quarantine for two weeks after the tournament.
> 
> We're in the middle of a PANDEMIC with idiots who don't care. Bringing your kids into a hot spot like AZ right after Christmas travel is a joke for a watered down surf cup.
> 
> Who's really going to be at high risk are the olders playing New Years........yikes
> 
> On a side note... Im curious if Cal South will eventually require a vaccination card for play moving into late 2021? That will be the next question moving forward for a return to everything.


All true.

But I'd happily pay testing costs to give my kid a weekend with two local games.  I promise to do all my celebratory drinking at home.

Realistically, I am waiting for spring.


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> All true.
> 
> But I'd happily pay testing costs to give my kid a weekend with two local games.  I promise to do all my celebratory drinking at home.
> 
> Realistically, I am waiting for spring.


Maybe not.  I just got the bill for testing for my son's soccer practice in the fall at his school.  Because they were asking to limit public testing to the symptomatic or those with confirmed contact, I (perhaps foolishly) went the good citizen route and had the testing done during test day on campus by an independent lab.  Insurance has declined since it wasn't medically necessary and was out of network (didn't want to take a healthy kid to an urgent care in network either where he could pick something up since particularly then we weren't sure if you could get COVID 2x).  $1750 for 2 tests and the school wanted me to test him again for just 1 day of practice at the end (to which I said no way Jose).


----------



## espola

Chalklines said:


> Why don't people understand its not the soccer at the tournament that's the problem? It's all the idiot parents who turn the weekend into a booze cruise and bar hop all weekend. Testings pointless before and testing afters pointless because only 1% of people going will actually self quarantine for two weeks after the tournament.
> 
> We're in the middle of a PANDEMIC with idiots who don't care. Bringing your kids into a hot spot like AZ right after Christmas travel is a joke for a watered down surf cup.
> 
> Who's really going to be at high risk are the olders playing New Years........yikes
> 
> On a side note... Im curious if Cal South will eventually require a vaccination card for play moving into late 2021? That will be the next question moving forward for a return to everything.


I have only been drunk at a soccer tournament parents' party twice, and they were both at the same tournament.  (And I wasn't dancing on that table before I fell - I was merely trying to stack the empty beer cans in an artistic manner)


----------



## happy9

oh canada said:


> Testing people one moment in time whether they are positive wouldn't make a difference for me.
> 
> I see Surf as Big Tobacco.  They have a product (event) that they KNOW carries elevated health risks for a large group of people yet they don't care about human health and lives because they need or want $$.  They know by putting the product out there and advertising it with marketing puffery, people will come.  There are thousands of youth soccer addicts, just as there are millions who can't stop sucking on their Marlboros.  The medical community discourages smoking but Philip Morris ignores them.  Surf likewise ignores the AZ and CA medical communities who vehemently plead to cancel because hospital beds are becoming as scarce as USMNT World Cup goals.
> 
> Just think about it for a bit before reacting...Surf wants you to: Come play a kids game, during the worst health crisis the world has seen in 100 years, in a location that now has the highest rate of spread in the entire country (source below), staying and eating in this location for several days, over the festive Xmas and New Year's Eve holidays no less, against the advice of almost all medical personnel, and in direct conflict with your state's travel and gathering orders (which also then require 14 days of self-quarantine upon return).
> 
> Please tell me what "corporate recklessness" means if that is not it.
> 
> Source: https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/coronavirus_coverage/arizona-has-highest-rate-of-covid-19-spread-in-the-nation/article_355ab83c-3bfd-11eb-a0cd-5f61070a2e3e.html
> 
> View attachment 9658


Here is some corporate responsibility.  Truth be told, likely less altruism and more concern for their $$$$.  But you get the point.  

In other troubling news, more people in hospital beds today then ever, even more than July.  ICU and inpatient beds at 91% capacity.  For both categories, over 40% of each flavor of bed has a covid patient in it.  The good news I'm told is that surge capacity is healthy and contracts are in place for additional staff, once freed from from the midwest surge.  Interestingly enough, I don't get the sense of panic from the healthcare community.  Many cities are only doing outpatient surgeries, which isn't good for the bottom line.  Crazy environment right now.

What's good for Surf is that baseball tournaments in the west valley for this month  *have not been cancelled* (Mesa, Fountain Hills, Chandler).  The tournaments are capping attendance.  In Chandler, 60 per field (includes teams, coaches,).  Mesa and Fountain Hills are limiting it to 1 parent per player.  Most of the teams are from AZ.  









						Barrett-Jackson to Reschedule Scottsdale Auction to March 2021 to Safeguard Customers, Sponsors and Guests
					

Barrett-Jackson will reschedule its January 2021 Scottsdale Auction to the week of March 22, 2021, at WestWorld of Scottsdale



					www.businesswire.com


----------



## happy9

Grace T. said:


> Maybe not.  I just got the bill for testing for my son's soccer practice in the fall at his school.  Because they were asking to limit public testing to the symptomatic or those with confirmed contact, I (perhaps foolishly) went the good citizen route and had the testing done during test day on campus by an independent lab.  Insurance has declined since it wasn't medically necessary and was out of network (didn't want to take a healthy kid to an urgent care in network either where he could pick something up since particularly then we weren't sure if you could get COVID 2x).  $1750 for 2 tests and the school wanted me to test him again for just 1 day of practice at the end (to which I said no way Jose).


Covid testing is a booming business right now.  With school and club requirements for rona free proof, we've also spent a pretty penny the last few months.


----------



## Glitterhater

Grace T. said:


> Maybe not.  I just got the bill for testing for my son's soccer practice in the fall at his school.  Because they were asking to limit public testing to the symptomatic or those with confirmed contact, I (perhaps foolishly) went the good citizen route and had the testing done during test day on campus by an independent lab.  Insurance has declined since it wasn't medically necessary and was out of network (didn't want to take a healthy kid to an urgent care in network either where he could pick something up since particularly then we weren't sure if you could get COVID 2x).  $1750 for 2 tests and the school wanted me to test him again for just 1 day of practice at the end (to which I said no way Jose).


This is part of the problem. At this juncture, 9 months in, these tests should pretty much be free. I know I shouldn't be surprised but yet, color me surprised that testing is still a hot mess.


----------



## Grace T.

Glitterhater said:


> This is part of the problem. At this juncture, 9 months in, these tests should pretty much be free. I know I shouldn't be surprised but yet, color me surprised that testing is still a hot mess.



They are free if you are willing to put in the time: 2.5 hours in Moorpark right before thanksgiving, 1.5 hours in Oxnard after thanksgiving break, and for niece 1.2 hours at Dodger Stadium with appointment.   VC has been looking to add sites and capacity but is having problem finding people willing to do it and locations not NIMBYing


----------



## dad4

Grace T. said:


> They are free if you are willing to put in the time: 2.5 hours in Moorpark right before thanksgiving, 1.5 hours in Oxnard after thanksgiving break, and for niece 1.2 hours at Dodger Stadium with appointment.   VC has been looking to add sites and capacity but is having problem finding people willing to do it and locations not NIMBYing


SJ is going door to door in hot spots, offering free tests.  

I think this is partly to find cases and partly to remind people it is real.


----------



## Calisoccer11

Glitterhater said:


> This is part of the problem. At this juncture, 9 months in, these tests should pretty much be free. I know I shouldn't be surprised but yet, color me surprised that testing is still a hot mess.


Maybe we've been lucky but my daughter has several tests done at various places offering free tests in LA with an appointment - no more than hour waiting.  We have also done testing at a local medical emergency center and insurance has covered the tests.


----------



## Calisoccer11

Grace T. said:


> Maybe not.  I just got the bill for testing for my son's soccer practice in the fall at his school.  Because they were asking to limit public testing to the symptomatic or those with confirmed contact, I (perhaps foolishly) went the good citizen route and had the testing done during test day on campus by an independent lab.  Insurance has declined since it wasn't medically necessary and was out of network (didn't want to take a healthy kid to an urgent care in network either where he could pick something up since particularly then we weren't sure if you could get COVID 2x).  $1750 for 2 tests and the school wanted me to test him again for just 1 day of practice at the end (to which I said no way Jose).


My son's school required testing after a fall break.  It was $40.  $1750 seems a bit outrageous.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Calisoccer11 said:


> My son's school required testing after a fall break.  It was $40.  $1750 seems a bit outrageous.


You can have someone come to your house and test you for the virus and the antigens for under $300


----------



## Grace T.

Calisoccer11 said:


> My son's school required testing after a fall break.  It was $40.  $1750 seems a bit outrageous.


Yes....yes it is.  But it was also in September when the market was tighter and they were asking people not to use the public facilities unless sick, and it was a private driveup for the kids at school.  They should have told me, though, if it wasn't going to be covered...there are going to be quite a few poed parents this week as I know many have the same (very good) insurance.

Even had I know though I probably would have still paid it (I was hospitalized at the time and had to have a relative take him, and it seemed unfair to have them go to an urgent care and risk getting sick especially after breaking isolation).  You can get quicker public free appointments in VC and Los Angeles if you are willing to get out of your car....they just don't seem to be getting as many takers as the drive thrus sites.


----------



## Grace T.

Kicker4Life said:


> You can have someone come to your house and test you for the virus and the antigens for under $300


Yeah now....not then.


----------



## Own Goal

Glitterhater said:


> This is part of the problem. At this juncture, 9 months in, these tests should pretty much be free. I know I shouldn't be surprised but yet, color me surprised that testing is still a hot mess.


In San Diego County there are free testing sites. If anyone is interested/in need SDSU's Alumni Center is a free testing site for the county - a friend went on Thursday and was in and out and got her test results on Friday. 

My DD's team made the decision to pull out of Surf Cup last month. Initially I was really disappointed b/c I know the girls desperately want to play and we have a couple uncommitted 21's (and all our 22's) who really need game footage (and I mean come on - it's my daughter's senior year - I just want to see her play her last year of club). But now I don't think I would want to go with the current conditions. I'm all for letting the kids play and I hope in the start of the year we can start seeing SoCal teams playing each other without having to travel to another state to do so, but with so many teams/clubs pulling out I don't know if it would be worth the drive for low quality games for the olders. I would also worry about injuries. But that's just my opinion. I'm one who's been very cautious in our daily lives (based on sentiments on this site, I'm sure some would automatically assume I'm afraid to come out of my bubble), but I 110% support letting the kids play. My kids have been practicing and playing since June and I feel like soccer, along with other outdoor activities, is relatively low risk. I will also say that when my DD was a U little I never would have considered traveling for this tournament in the current climate. But again, that's just my opinion based on my experiences over the years.


----------



## Calisoccer11

Grace T. said:


> Yes....yes it is.  But it was also in September when the market was tighter and they were asking people not to use the public facilities unless sick, and it was a private driveup for the kids at school.  They should have told me, though, if it wasn't going to be covered...there are going to be quite a few poed parents this week as I know many have the same (very good) insurance.
> 
> Even had I know though I probably would have still paid it (I was hospitalized at the time and had to have a relative take him, and it seemed unfair to have them go to an urgent care and risk getting sick especially after breaking isolation).  You can get quicker public free appointments in VC and Los Angeles if you are willing to get out of your car....they just don't seem to be getting as many takers as the drive thrus sites.


In LA, you don't have to get out of your car-- At least at the sites my daughter has been at - I know Dodger Stadium was one place she went to.  She was working in a restaurant and was so scared of getting Covid that she was getting tested quite frequently.  That's the only reason I know.


----------



## Glitterhater

I think the testing does ebb and flow in terms of accessibility and availability. We tried getting tested this week, (all had symptoms,) and struck out locally. And that includes places like CVS, Walgreens, and Kaiser, (they had nothing local to us, but we could drive an hour out.) We finally were able to get tests in the next town over but man- why is it so crazy?!?


----------



## Kicker4Life

Grace T. said:


> Yeah now....not then.


Had it done in May.


----------



## ITFC Blues

I wanted to get tested to verify I did not have it back in June before I travelled to PA for work ( for an essential sector construction project). I wanted to get tested at one of the free CA testing sites.  When I signed up for an appointment ( required at the time) it requested my health insurance information.  I did some basic research and found that if you have insurance they want to bill your insurance.  No insurance and it was covered by relief funds.  I decided I should check to see what my insurance would say if they were billed.  I was told that my insurance would not pay for the test it was not required by a Dr.  Well, I would have had to go see the Dr. (pay out of pocket for the office visit)  just to get authorization from them to get tested and that was very difficult in June.  I eventually gave up and didn't get tested.  Free is not always free.  Now, there is a 4 day wait for an appointment for the "free" testing.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

Grace T. said:


> They are free if you are willing to put in the time: 2.5 hours in Moorpark right before thanksgiving, 1.5 hours in Oxnard after thanksgiving break, and for niece 1.2 hours at Dodger Stadium with appointment.   VC has been looking to add sites and capacity but is having problem finding people willing to do it and locations not NIMBYing


My daughter did an indoor soccer tournament in California during thanksgiving weekend.  We had zero covid cases.   We also went to a thanksgiving outdoor family  lunch and.... 3 covid cases.    $200 to get tested per person.


----------



## 46n2

I got tested 3 x in September each time was $125 and results in 20-30 min.  My friend just got tested for free at stadium for free .  Not sure why it would be 1750, ouch.

*Heres a question , say you go to a tournament out of state.  Does your club or work have the right to ask you to test and if you refuse to test, do they have the right to force you to quarantine for 10 days?*


----------



## MrCruett

46n2 said:


> I got tested 3 x in September each time was $125 and results in 20-30 min.  My friend just got tested for free at stadium for free .  Not sure why it would be 1750, ouch.
> 
> *Heres a question , say you go to a tournament out of state.  Does your club or work have the right to ask you to test and if you refuse to test, do they have the right to force you to quarantine for 10 days?*


Good luck with that line in the sand.


----------



## crush

46n2 said:


> I got tested 3 x in September each time was $125 and results in 20-30 min.  My friend just got tested for free at stadium for free .  Not sure why it would be 1750, ouch.
> 
> *Heres a question , say you go to a tournament out of state.  Does your club or work have the right to ask you to test and if you refuse to test, do they have the right to force you to quarantine for 10 days?*


My friend got tested twice last week and was negative both times.  The boss tells him to stay away from the office ((residential electrical company)) and customers are not looking to have someone in their home that looks and acts like he has Rona.  Dude got sick earlier in the year and has no sick days left and he can't say Rona because he's negative.  $300 for two rapid test the small owner had to pay.  If he had Rona, he closes his doors because most of his team is already scared and just need a reason to go on Rona Relief.  Runny nose, cough and all that.  Q.  He's been out of work for 10 days now because of his cough.  Can he get Rona Relief?  "Oh what a relief it is......????"  His boss told him to stay away?  Should bossman pay? Bossman is about to close his doors because another dude just said he can't work because he's a afraid of my buddy now, even though he tested negative.  Good luck small business owner and all you trades people who keep risking your life helping others.


----------



## dad4

MrCruett said:


> Good luck with that line in the sand.


At least for workplaces, it seems they have a strong case that the employee puts their coworkers at risk by failing to quarantine.  I would not want to bet against employers being able to fire an employee in such a case.  I can even see the union taking either side.


----------



## notintheface

46n2 said:


> I got tested 3 x in September each time was $125 and results in 20-30 min.  My friend just got tested for free at stadium for free .  Not sure why it would be 1750, ouch.
> 
> *Heres a question , say you go to a tournament out of state.  Does your club or work have the right to ask you to test and if you refuse to test, do they have the right to force you to quarantine for 10 days?*


As California is a right to work state, you can be fired for any reason, including refusing to test or quarantine.


----------



## crush

notintheface said:


> As California is a right to work state, you *can be fired for any reason*, including refusing to test or quarantine.


Yes, that is true.  I had a friend who owned a company and he caught one of his employee stealing, on camera.  This dude was so pissed.  Drove to the thief's house and called him out.  Fired his ass on the spot.  Guess what?  Thief sued employer for a few things that the employer was doing wrong and it ended up costing my pal $30,000 to settle.  He wasnt documenting the thief's lunch times ((construction)) for over two yeas and got back pay plus attorneys got $10K each for a days work.  The moral of the story my pal said?  Find a way to get the thief to just quit.......it's way cheaper.  It was just some old copper pipes worth $90 and ended up costing my pal $30,000 because he can fire anyone.  Dummy!!!  Lesson learned


----------



## Chalklines

46n2 said:


> I got tested 3 x in September each time was $125 and results in 20-30 min.  My friend just got tested for free at stadium for free .  Not sure why it would be 1750, ouch.
> 
> *Heres a question , say you go to a tournament out of state.  Does your club or work have the right to ask you to test and if you refuse to test, do they have the right to force you to quarantine for 10 days?*


Would rather require family's not to go galavanting around town and lay low at the hotel then test. Let them take the stupid out of the stupids.


----------



## ITFC Blues

Chalklines said:


> Would rather require family's not to go galavanting around town and lay low at the hotel then test. Let them take the stupid out of the stupids.


Our club has stated that they are following CDC guidelines regarding personal travel so if you leave the state for personal or club travel you can either get tested and return to training after 7 days with a negative test, or return to training after 10 days if you didn't get tested.  

Aside from the employment laws they ( your club or work) might not be able to require you to quarantine, but they can tell you to stay away, which is effectively a quarantine from them.  

They also stated that the club won't be traveling under the current conditions due to US Club Soccer viewing the California travel restrictions as a mandate meaning that travel would put them out of compliance with US Club Soccer rules, invalidating any insurance.  

It's possible that any tournament that accepts them might also be at risk as their tournament insurance might night cover the tournament if they accept them and let them play without insurance.


----------



## NumberTen

This just in...
"


Despite challenging conditions, the voice of our athletes, families, clubs and college coaches is clear – PLAY ON!  More than 450 teams reaffirmed their desire to compete for the title of _Best of the Best_ and we feel a responsibility to host this premier youth sports and college recruiting event.

As college recruiting age players have been without an opportunity to showcase themselves the past 9 months, Surf Cup, Scouting Zone and NextPro are teaming up to help connect top players and college coaches. Every game in the recruiting age groups (Boys 01/02/03, 04 and Girls 01/02/03, 04, 05) will be filmed and accessible, free for all college coaches.

Due to the support of communities surrounding Phoenix, we now have access to additional fields for this event. *Therefore, we have the unique opportunity to accept 50 additional teams for Surf Cup Phoenix.  If you wish to reconsider or be part of this elite event, please apply at www.surfcupsports.com/surf-cup.*



SURF CUP PHOENIX YOUNGERS – DEC 27-29 – APPLY NOW →​



SURF CUP PHOENIX OLDERS – JAN 1- 4 – APPLY NOW →​



*Applications must be received by Wednesday, December 16th at 5pm and acceptances will be announced by Friday, December 18th.*

Surf Cup has always been a leader in youth soccer and we will continue our mission to provide experiences and opportunities for kids who are desperate for the college exposure and competitive environment that has been missing the past 9 months. We will also lead in our strict adherence to safety protocols both on and off the field, which will be communicated to all teams one week prior to the event.

Team Surf


----------



## EOTL

notintheface said:


> As California is a right to work state, you can be fired for any reason, including refusing to test or quarantine.


Please stop trying to practice law. First, CA is not a “right to work” state, what you meant is “at will” state. “Right to work” is a euphemism for employees free-loading off of their co-workers by taking all the benefits of a collective bargaining agreement without paying dues to the union.

Second, it is not necessarily true that an employer can simply fire someone for being the kind of a**hole you describe. There are other factors that come into play here.  In many cases, an employer cannot terminate someone simply for refusing to take a covid test or refusing to quarantine. Certainly, employers should fire these employees when they can, since the behavior you describe is part of a larger problem - namely being a selfish a**hole who doesn’t care about the welfare of others.


----------



## dad4

NumberTen said:


> This just in...
> "
> 
> ​
> Despite challenging conditions, the voice of our athletes, families, clubs and college coaches is clear – PLAY ON!  More than 450 teams reaffirmed their desire to compete for the title of _Best of the Best_ and we feel a responsibility to host this premier youth sports and college recruiting event.
> 
> As college recruiting age players have been without an opportunity to showcase themselves the past 9 months, Surf Cup, Scouting Zone and NextPro are teaming up to help connect top players and college coaches. Every game in the recruiting age groups (Boys 01/02/03, 04 and Girls 01/02/03, 04, 05) will be filmed and accessible, free for all college coaches.
> 
> Due to the support of communities surrounding Phoenix, we now have access to additional fields for this event. *Therefore, we have the unique opportunity to accept 50 additional teams for Surf Cup Phoenix.  If you wish to reconsider or be part of this elite event, please apply at www.surfcupsports.com/surf-cup.*
> 
> 
> ​
> SURF CUP PHOENIX YOUNGERS – DEC 27-29 – APPLY NOW →​
> 
> 
> ​
> SURF CUP PHOENIX OLDERS – JAN 1- 4 – APPLY NOW →​
> 
> 
> ​
> *Applications must be received by Wednesday, December 16th at 5pm and acceptances will be announced by Friday, December 18th.*
> 
> Surf Cup has always been a leader in youth soccer and we will continue our mission to provide experiences and opportunities for kids who are desperate for the college exposure and competitive environment that has been missing the past 9 months. We will also lead in our strict adherence to safety protocols both on and off the field, which will be communicated to all teams one week prior to the event.
> 
> Team Surf


In other words, the tournament is half the size, and even after they called up all the rejected teams, they still have slots open.

Ouch.


----------



## Glitterhater

dad4 said:


> In other words, the tournament is half the size, and even after they called up all the rejected teams, they still have slots open.
> 
> Ouch.


[QUOTE="dad4, post: 372364,

Honestly, at this point I think that even if each team had just another couple of teams to play against, they'd be happy. At least it's something for those that are all-in.


----------



## happy9

dad4 said:


> In other words, the tournament is half the size, and even after they called up all the rejected teams, they still have slots open.
> 
> Ouch.


Roughly 400 teams, maybe a bit more have pulled out.  Have to hand it to their communications teams, they are doing admirable work.  And looks like Scottsdale will honor the contract.   Great fields.  We'll see what other fields they've been able to harvest.  I would guess fields out in the west valley.

They won't have the capability to live stream but at least they will provide video support.


----------



## Giesbock

I visited an open site this morning out of curiosity. Cute to see 8 to 12 year olds hustling around a soccer field like a swarm of bees, but for me, it underscores how ridiculous it is to have U littles travel to AZ for a tournament... 

As exciting as it is for parents to see their kids play and yell “take the shot!” Or “take it all the way!”, it’s just a poor use of time and effort- all the more so with hospitals filling to the brim out there.

Wish everyone well that does go, but time with your little players might be better spent doing some more training drills at home.


----------



## soccer4us

NumberTen said:


> This just in...
> "
> 
> ​
> Despite challenging conditions, the voice of our athletes, families, clubs and college coaches is clear – PLAY ON!  More than 450 teams reaffirmed their desire to compete for the title of _Best of the Best_ and we feel a responsibility to host this premier youth sports and college recruiting event.
> 
> As college recruiting age players have been without an opportunity to showcase themselves the past 9 months, Surf Cup, Scouting Zone and NextPro are teaming up to help connect top players and college coaches. Every game in the recruiting age groups (Boys 01/02/03, 04 and Girls 01/02/03, 04, 05) will be filmed and accessible, free for all college coaches.
> 
> Due to the support of communities surrounding Phoenix, we now have access to additional fields for this event. *Therefore, we have the unique opportunity to accept 50 additional teams for Surf Cup Phoenix.  If you wish to reconsider or be part of this elite event, please apply at www.surfcupsports.com/surf-cup.*
> 
> 
> ​
> SURF CUP PHOENIX YOUNGERS – DEC 27-29 – APPLY NOW →​
> 
> 
> ​
> SURF CUP PHOENIX OLDERS – JAN 1- 4 – APPLY NOW →​
> 
> 
> ​
> *Applications must be received by Wednesday, December 16th at 5pm and acceptances will be announced by Friday, December 18th.*
> 
> Surf Cup has always been a leader in youth soccer and we will continue our mission to provide experiences and opportunities for kids who are desperate for the college exposure and competitive environment that has been missing the past 9 months. We will also lead in our strict adherence to safety protocols both on and off the field, which will be communicated to all teams one week prior to the event.
> 
> Team Surf


Due to the support of communities surrounding Phoenix, we now have access to additional fields for this event. Therefore, we have the unique opportunity to accept 50 additional teams for Surf Cup Phoenix. If you wish to reconsider or be part of this elite event, please apply at


LOL best line by far. So that's why you have more space for 50 teams? OK, got it.


----------



## MacDre

dad4 said:


> In other words, the tournament is half the size, and even after they called up all the rejected teams, they still have slots open.
> 
> Ouch.


It’s been said that “pimpin ain’t easy” but at times necessary.  

Good luck to the kids going to Surf.


----------



## MacDre

Does anyone besides me think that attending Surf under the current conditions could violate some sort of university moral/ethics code and adversely impact your kids admissions packet?


----------



## nextgenathletics

MacDre said:


> Does anyone besides me think that attending Surf under the current conditions could violate some sort of university moral/ethics code and adversely impact your kids admissions packet?


Naw.


----------



## MacDre

nextgenathletics said:


> Naw.


Why?


----------



## jimlewis

MacDre said:


> Does anyone besides me think that attending Surf under the current conditions could violate some sort of university moral/ethics code and adversely impact your kids admissions packet?


wow


----------



## MacDre

jimlewis said:


> wow


Yep.  I actually think its kinda dumb to record oneself violating rules and then submit the recording to a university in hopes of gaining admission.  Your thoughts?


----------



## Glitterhater

MacDre said:


> Yep.  I actually think its kinda dumb to record oneself violating rules and then submit the recording to a university in hopes of gaining admission.  Your thoughts?


I would never have thought of that. Interesting. I couldn't even guess if it'll be detrimental.

I don't have a highschooler but I sure hope they, (out of all those going,) are shown some grace. So, I'd hope not.


----------



## dad4

MacDre said:


> Yep.  I actually think its kinda dumb to record oneself violating rules and then submit the recording to a university in hopes of gaining admission.  Your thoughts?


amusing angle on it.

unfortunately, I suspect more coaches expect you to be willing to break the rules, but only when they ask you to.


----------



## happy9

MacDre said:


> Does anyone besides me think that attending Surf under the current conditions could violate some sort of university moral/ethics code and adversely impact your kids admissions packet?


Nope, not if you are auditioning for a coveted Pac 12 roster slot.


----------



## oh canada

happy9 said:


> Roughly 400 teams, maybe a bit more have pulled out.  Have to hand it to their communications teams, they are doing admirable work.  And looks like Scottsdale will honor the contract.   Great fields.  We'll see what other fields they've been able to harvest.  I would guess fields out in the west valley.
> 
> They won't have the capability to live stream but at least they will provide video support.


And how many of those 400 teams are Surf teams forced to play?  Surf San Diego has to have at least 60 teams; and, all of the affiliates who, I'm sure, are obligated (or feel obligated) to send teams as well.


----------



## Speed

MacDre said:


> Does anyone besides me think that attending Surf under the current conditions could violate some sort of university moral/ethics code and adversely impact your kids admissions packet?


Nada


----------



## happy9

oh canada said:


> And how many of those 400 teams are Surf teams forced to play?  Surf San Diego has to have at least 60 teams; and, all of the affiliates who, I'm sure, are obligated (or feel obligated) to send teams as well.


Have no idea.  I guess we'll know once they release the updated list of attendees.  I'm sure there are plenty of non-surf teams that will be in attendance.


----------



## jimlewis

MacDre said:


> Yep.  I actually think its kinda dumb to record oneself violating rules and then submit the recording to a university in hopes of gaining admission.  Your thoughts?


if breaking some rules were disqualification for admission to college, enrollment to college would drop dramatically..


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> Roughly 400 teams, maybe a bit more have pulled out.  Have to hand it to their communications teams, they are doing admirable work.  And looks like Scottsdale will honor the contract.   Great fields.  We'll see what other fields they've been able to harvest.  I would guess fields out in the west valley.
> 
> They won't have the capability to live stream but at least they will provide video support.


Scottsdale likes money Happy


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> Yep.  I actually think its kinda dumb to record oneself violating rules and then submit the recording to a university in hopes of gaining admission.  Your thoughts?


I never thought about that until you said something just now Dre.  Good point bro


----------



## gotothebushes

dad4 said:


> In other words, the tournament is half the size, and even after they called up all the rejected teams, they still have slots open.
> 
> Ouch.


FACT


----------



## jpeter

450 teams reconfirmed for Surf PHX with 50 new openings according to mail that went out over the weekend.

Our club doesn't normal play surf so just passing along some info heard recently from others.


----------



## crush

For the record, if my dd was under 12 like Luis #2, I would be all over this tournament and singing Surf's praise for providing sports for my dd and entrainment for me in these challenging times.  Extra fields means extra spaces and that means extra $$$$$.  Olders, no thanks.  California girls are not in shape, unless you have da keys to the gym ((soccer fields)).  I speak gym because I had connections to some cool gyms back in the day and I got to train while others were in the cold park with the wind.  Some clubs have connections and are ready to go all out for top coaches.  My dd needs to play way more then friendlies.  I spoke to top trainer and he said my dd needs two months before she is ready to go all ganas.  HS Soccer, here we come!!!


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> Scottsdale likes money Happy


Yes they do.


----------



## Lavey29

MacDre said:


> Does anyone besides me think that attending Surf under the current conditions could violate some sort of university moral/ethics code and adversely impact your kids admissions packet?



Uh do all the college coaches attending violate YOUR moral code to?....lol....what a ridiculous post


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

Lavey29 said:


> Uh do all the college coaches attending violate YOUR moral code to?....lol....what a ridiculous post


Are coaches allowed to attend?  It’s a real question because according to this ruling below they shouldn’t.     I am just curious on how Surf is getting coaches to attend.









						Coronavirus Updates: NCAA Suspension of In-Person Recruiting
					

Get the latest updates regarding the NCAA suspension of in-person recruiting and changes to the NCAA dead period due to coronavirus.




					www.ncsasports.org


----------



## MacDre

Lavey29 said:


> Uh do all the college coaches attending violate YOUR moral code to?....lol....what a ridiculous post


No.  I don’t think it matters if your kids want to go to school in Florida or Arizona.  However, I think it could be a factor in the analysis for kids wanting to attend California universities both public and private.

Not my moral code either.  I just recognize that attending tournaments now is a politically charged issue and I hate to see these kids become victims of circumstance just because their parents are thinking short term.  From my understanding, the top kids is this group have committed already.  So, I don’t think the demographic that’s attending surf cup for film should do so because the marginal benefit (game film) is not worth the risk (exclusion from dream school).  These kids are gonna be on their own and the “scapegoat” when the shit hits the fan.


----------



## Lavey29

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Are coaches allowed to attend?  It’s a real question because according to this ruling below they shouldn’t.     I am just curious on how Surf is getting coaches to attend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coronavirus Updates: NCAA Suspension of In-Person Recruiting
> 
> 
> Get the latest updates regarding the NCAA suspension of in-person recruiting and changes to the NCAA dead period due to coronavirus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ncsasports.org


Look at the dates of that temporary stay. It was geared towards D1 coaches. My kid did a college clinic in Scottsdale 2 months and it was loaded with at least 12 coaches in attendance.


----------



## soccer4us

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Are coaches allowed to attend?  It’s a real question because according to this ruling below they shouldn’t.     I am just curious on how Surf is getting coaches to attend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coronavirus Updates: NCAA Suspension of In-Person Recruiting
> 
> 
> Get the latest updates regarding the NCAA suspension of in-person recruiting and changes to the NCAA dead period due to coronavirus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ncsasports.org


D1 coaches cannot legally attend. d2/3/NAIA can. 

Getting film of games vs decent competition almost as important a being seen in person at this point with the delay until mid April.


----------



## AGINAZ

MacDre said:


> Does anyone besides me think that attending Surf under the current conditions could violate some sort of university moral/ethics code and adversely impact your kids admissions packet?



It would be interesting if California required travelling teams to quarantine for 14 days AFTER returning from AZ...


----------



## Lavey29

MacDre said:


> No.  I don’t think it matters if your kids want to go to school in Florida or Arizona.  However, I think it could be a factor in the analysis for kids wanting to attend California universities both public and private.
> 
> Not my moral code either.  I just recognize that attending tournaments now is a politically charged issue and I hate to see these kids become victims of circumstance just because their parents are thinking short term.  From my understanding, the top kids is this group have committed already.  So, I don’t think the demographic that’s attending surf cup for film should do so because the marginal benefit (game film) is not worth the risk (exclusion from dream school).  These kids are gonna be on their own and the “scapegoat” when the shit hits the fan.


So colleges around the country are going to be vetting student applications for Federal,  state and local china virus compliance?  Or just California colleges vetting California youth soccer players attending surf tournament?  Sure seems like a fair balanced approach huh?  What does a group of individuals on here, some with no kids involved in soccer continue to try and micro manage every aspect of this tournament with the gleeful hope of seeing the tournament canceled? You will be completely safe inside your bubble.  Let adults make THEIR OWN adult decisions regarding their kids sports activities.


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> No.  I don’t think it matters if your kids want to go to school in Florida or Arizona.  However, I think it could be a factor in the analysis for kids wanting to attend California universities both public and private.
> 
> Not my moral code either.  I just recognize that attending tournaments now is a politically charged issue and I hate to see these kids become victims of circumstance just because their parents are thinking short term.  From my understanding, the top kids is this group have committed already.  So, I don’t think the demographic that’s attending surf cup for film should do so because the marginal benefit (game film) is not worth the risk (exclusion from dream school).  These kids are gonna be on their own and the “scapegoat” when the shit hits the fan.


My dd wants to stay and play in California dream weather school Dre and you are sounding very wise more and more.  My dd spoke to one awesome coach and they are focused on seeing who wants to come back for extra year and what 2021 have changed their minds.  2022s have some time but I agree, the best of the best are signed.  I have my sights on big time Socal HS Soccer where some of these top coaches will get their first look at who has stayed in shape and who is battle tested.  End of Feb the HS season begins.  It's not just fun, it's all about the "Road to Ford Focus CIF Finals." Live on Cox Sports West in June 2021!!!


----------



## Lavey29

MacDre said:


> No.  I don’t think it matters if your kids want to go to school in Florida or Arizona.  However, I think it could be a factor in the analysis for kids wanting to attend California universities both public and private.
> 
> Not my moral code either.  I just recognize that attending tournaments now is a politically charged issue and I hate to see these kids become victims of circumstance just because their parents are thinking short term.  From my understanding, the top kids is this group have committed already.  So, I don’t think the demographic that’s attending surf cup for film should do so because the marginal benefit (game film) is not worth the risk (exclusion from dream school).  These kids are gonna be on their own and the “scapegoat” when the shit hits the fan.


My kid will be emailing every local college coach here that has corresponded with her and letting them know she is playing in Surf cup.


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> Look at the dates of that temporary stay. It was geared towards D1 coaches. My kid did a college clinic in Scottsdale 2 months and it was loaded with at least 12 coaches in attendance.


If you are referring to the Exact  50 Camp, they are usually very well run.  There is another one scheduled for DEC 20 in Mesa.

For what it's worth, my oldest attended the large exact 50 camp last summer at Silver Lakes.  3 days of a lot of soccer and  panels put on by coaches that covered the details of the recruiting process.  Great exposure to coaches - they pushed the players to interact off the pitch.  He reluctantly went and it paid dividends - it expanded his views of where he wanted to go.  It also made him adjust his expectation, which is what many parents and players need.


----------



## MacDre

Lavey29 said:


> So colleges around the country are going to be vetting student applications for Federal,  state and local china virus compliance?  Or just California colleges vetting California youth soccer players attending surf tournament?  Sure seems like a fair balanced approach huh?  What does a group of individuals on here, some with no kids involved in soccer continue to try and micro manage every aspect of this tournament with the gleeful hope of seeing the tournament canceled? You will be completely safe inside your bubble.  Let adults make THEIR OWN adult decisions regarding their kids sports activities.


Don’t kill the messenger.  Damn!


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> If you are referring to the Exact  50 Camp, they are usually very well run.  There is another one scheduled for DEC 20 in Mesa.
> 
> For what it's worth, my oldest attended the large exact 50 camp last summer at Silver Lakes.  3 days of a lot of soccer and  panels put on by coaches that covered the details of the recruiting process.  Great exposure to coaches - they pushed the players to interact off the pitch.  He reluctantly went and it paid dividends - it expanded his views of where he wanted to go.  It also made him adjust his expectation, which is what many parents and players need.


Yes we have done 3 Exact 50 including the 3 day at silverlakes.  My only complaint from the Mesa one is the game footage is difficult to use. Pink and light orange pennies in the scrimmage games make it difficult to follow the players. I have difficulty finding my own kid out there in the bright sunlight during the games but you are right they are well managed clinics.


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> Yes we have done 3 Exact 50 including the 3 day at silverlakes.  My only complaint from the Mesa one is the game footage is difficult to use. Pink and light orange pennies in the scrimmage games make it difficult to follow the players. I have difficulty finding my own kid out there in the bright sunlight during the games but you are right they are well managed clinics.


The 3 days we attended summer of 2019 were excellent, provided much needed off the pitch interaction practice for my player.  It set him up for success later that fall and into spring 2020.  I thought their panel discussions were excellent and provided a ton of info that parents don't normally have access to, especially if your club likes to do all of the recruiting heavy lifting (and not involve parents until the financials come into play).


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> The 3 days we attended summer of 2019 were excellent, provided much needed off the pitch interaction practice for my player.  It set him up for success later that fall and into spring 2020.  I thought their panel discussions were excellent and provided a ton of info that parents don't normally have access to, especially if your club likes to do all of the recruiting heavy lifting (and not involve parents until the financials come into play).


Yes the 2019 camp was excellent from the girls side also.


----------



## ITFC Blues

AGINAZ said:


> It would be interesting if California required travelling teams to quarantine for 14 days AFTER returning from AZ...


They do require it, as do most local health authorities based on the CDPH Guidance.  People are just ignoring it, but the clubs typically have agreed with the local authorities to require the quarantine as part of their return to play plans.  Clubs don't want to end up in the newspaper with a big article that describes how there was an outbreak after teams returned from out of state.   Some clubs just don't care and will do whatever they want because they believe there is a 0% chance that any of their players will get Covid while out of state at a tournament.  There were articles in the Phoenix newspapers where the health authorities stated that they had identified the tournaments ( not any particular sport but they mentioned tournaments) as a source through contact tracing.  It seems that many have ignored those reports but the reports did immediately precede the decision by Phoenix to close the fields.  Anyone who chooses to travel out of state for non essential activities ( Surf Cup) should be prepared to quarantine for up to 14 days (may be less according to CDC guidance).


----------



## EOTL

Lavey29 said:


> So colleges around the country are going to be vetting student applications for Federal,  state and local china virus compliance?  Or just California colleges vetting California youth soccer players attending surf tournament?  Sure seems like a fair balanced approach huh?  What does a group of individuals on here, some with no kids involved in soccer continue to try and micro manage every aspect of this tournament with the gleeful hope of seeing the tournament canceled? You will be completely safe inside your bubble.  Let adults make THEIR OWN adult decisions regarding their kids sports activities.


Racist


----------



## MrCruett

EOTL said:


> Racist




Back to your bubble, bubble boy.


----------



## GT45

MacDre said:


> Yep.  I actually think its kinda dumb to record oneself violating rules and then submit the recording to a university in hopes of gaining admission.  Your thoughts?


What rules are people violating? The shut down is for three weeks. That ends a week before Surf Cup. AZ has no shut down.


----------



## notintheface

MacDre said:


> Does anyone besides me think that attending Surf under the current conditions could violate some sort of university moral/ethics code and adversely impact your kids admissions packet?


I get what you're saying-- this is where the AD and the coach would have a good, long talk about why these kids feel pressured to provide "recent" game footage. I don't think the kid would be punished, but I'd be jotting down "tiger helicopter parents" in thick red sharpie next to that kid's name.


----------



## notintheface

EOTL said:


> Please stop trying to practice law. First, CA is not a “right to work” state, what you meant is “at will” state. “Right to work” is a euphemism for employees free-loading off of their co-workers by taking all the benefits of a collective bargaining agreement without paying dues to the union.
> 
> Second, it is not necessarily true that an employer can simply fire someone for being the kind of a**hole you describe. There are other factors that come into play here.  In many cases, an employer cannot terminate someone simply for refusing to take a covid test or refusing to quarantine. Certainly, employers should fire these employees when they can, since the behavior you describe is part of a larger problem - namely being a selfish a**hole who doesn’t care about the welfare of others.


I'm drinking heavily on this thread, don't get on my ass about the words right to work vs at will. ffs.


----------



## Spfister

GT45 said:


> What rules are people violating? The shut down is for three weeks. That ends a week before Surf Cup. AZ has no shut down.


Also, nothing is mandated in California. It’s encouraged that people don’t travel it is not mandated.


----------



## tjinaz

GT45 said:


> What rules are people violating? The shut down is for three weeks. That ends a week before Surf Cup. AZ has no shut down.


What do you think the chances are that it extends beyond 3 weeks?  I am thinking to the end of January at the earliest.

Link has some bad words in it.

Gavin Holiday Greeting


----------



## Kicker4Life

tjinaz said:


> What do you think the chances are that it extends beyond 3 weeks?  I am thinking to the end of January at the earliest.
> 
> Link has some bad words in it.
> 
> Gavin Holiday Greeting


We (LA Co) were told 3 weeks in March....wanna guess how that worked out?


----------



## ITFC Blues

GT45 said:


> What rules are people violating? The shut down is for three weeks. That ends a week before Surf Cup. AZ has no shut down.


They would never extend it past 21 days would they? 

*Once triggered, these orders will remain in effect for at least 3 weeks. After that period, they will be lifted when a region’s projected ICU capacity meets or exceeds 15%. This will be assessed on a weekly basis after the initial 3 week period.*

All eyes in Southern California will be on the ICU capacity on 12/27 (too late to travel for the Surf Cup for Young ages).  Some of the Northern California counties are voluntarily in lockdown as the Bay Area as not fallen below 15% yet.  They intend to stay in lockdown as late as 1/9.  Sacramento doesn't leave lockdown until 1/1 ( too late to travel to Surf Cup for Older ages.) 

In the end people will do whatever they want.  With any luck Surf Cup taking place doesn't lead to further negative consequences for youth sports in CA  or AZ.  All it takes is for one team to come back and have someone test positive even if they didn't get Covid 19 in Arizona. Maybe High School sports will start up sometime in January and games will start in February. 

Looking forward to things getting back some sort of normal just in time for May/June tryouts.  At that point people can re assess whether or not clubs had their own best interests in mind by traveling out of state and holding scrimmages when they weren't supposed to, or if they had the players' best interests in mind.  Personally I feel the clubs are making poor and desperate decisions in order to try to compete for a few players that may bring them future prestige or development payments.


----------



## crush

MrCruett said:


> View attachment 9663
> 
> Back to your bubble, bubble boy.


This is awesome bro.  Solves the problem for the rich.  Those with jobs for life and loads of dough, they keep asking wants wrong with folks and why they can;t just obey, wear mask and stay home.  EOTL, how much money you got saved up?  Copa?  dad 4?  Face dude, who does like it the face, do you have some extra funds to share?  Can you all share with others in need on here? I'm going to open a thread for those in need.   No job, no soccer, no March Madness, No Easter, No Memorial Day, No July 4th, no Beach, no Surf Cup, no ECNL, no Labor Day, no Halloween, no Surf Thanksgiving or Silver Lakes, no Christmas, no presents, no Vegas Cup, no School, no hs sports, no Disneyland, no church, no no no no.  Just one big no.  Plus, if you complain, you're a racist.  If your white, you had it too good in this country and you now need to bend your knee and apologies for you being born here.  All whites are all racists with privledge.  This is what were all promised by the new leaders.  Winter of Darkness ((3 months)), three months of hell, Bill Gates says this will go on well into 2022.  The silver lining in all this is you get a vaccine when it's all said and done and you should be grateful and GTFO!!!!


----------



## EOTL

notintheface said:


> I'm drinking heavily on this thread, don't get on my ass about the words right to work vs at will. ffs.


Look, literally everything you said in your post was inaccurate, not just your terminology. Maybe you should stop drinking. ffs


----------



## EOTL

tjinaz said:


> What do you think the chances are that it extends beyond 3 weeks?  I am thinking to the end of January at the earliest.
> 
> Link has some bad words in it.
> 
> Gavin Holiday Greeting


Where’d you go @Grace T., hater of politics on this forum? Or is it just those who do not share your POS POV?


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> Look, literally everything you said in your post was inaccurate, not just your terminology. Maybe you should stop drinking. ffs


Face is acting irrational and I now see how others could view me the same way.  I do appreciate Face and all they bring to the forum.  California is a "right to work" state was funny.  What a privedge it is to have the right to work.  So wonderful the state is.  The problem is, no one is hiring unless you can teach or work at the city ot state level.  I am one SOL resident.  I was all set to help great restaurants with marketing and so many other things at the beginning of the year and now, no work.  Can someone please help me out with some food?


----------



## Lavey29

MrCruett said:


> View attachment 9663
> 
> Back to your bubble, bubble boy.


LMAO....exactly


----------



## EOTL

crush said:


> This is awesome bro.  Solves the problem for the rich.  Those with jobs for life and loads of dough, they keep asking wants wrong with folks and why they can;t just obey, wear mask and stay home.  EOTL, how much money you got saved up?  Copa?  dad 4?  Face dude, who does like it the face, do you have some extra funds to share?  Can you all share with others in need on here? I'm going to open a thread for those in need.   No job, no soccer, no March Madness, No Easter, No Memorial Day, No July 4th, no Beach, no Surf Cup, no ECNL, no Labor Day, no Halloween, no Surf Thanksgiving or Silver Lakes, no Christmas, no presents, no Vegas Cup, no School, no hs sports, no Disneyland, no church, no no no no.  Just one big no.  Plus, if you complain, you're a racist.  If your white, you had it too good in this country and you now need to bend your knee and apologies for you being born here.  All whites are all racists with privledge.  This is what were all promised by the new leaders.  Winter of Darkness ((3 months)), three months of hell, Bill Gates says this will go on well into 2022.  The silver lining in all this is you get a vaccine when it's all said and done and you should be grateful and GTFO!!!!


Why has all of this happened?  Because too many people refused to look past even their own short term interests. Remember when @MSK357 and his friends were calling this a hoax and were upset about social distancing because they claimed only 14, then 120, then only 1000 than no way it get above 12000? And when @Grace T. was encouraging unnecessary interstate travel and even gloating about it, and was ripping in masks until last week? And @Desert Hound complaining about not being able to go to bars and encouraging everyone to travel to AZ for kiddie soccer? Even now these people are blaming those who took it seriously and did their best to limit spread for causing people to commit suicide 10 months into a pandemic that they caused to spin out of control. 

Don’t blame me for where we are.


----------



## EOTL

MrCruett said:


> View attachment 9663
> 
> Back to your bubble, bubble boy.


Collaborator


----------



## 46n2

"Looking forward to things getting back some sort of normal just in time for May/June tryouts. At that point people can re assess whether or not clubs had their own best interests in mind by traveling out of state and holding scrimmages when they weren't supposed to, or if they had the players' best interests in mind. *Personally I feel the clubs are making poor and desperate decisions in order to try to compete for a few players that may bring them future prestige or development payments."*

This above is where its at......


----------



## MacDre

ITFC Blues said:


> They would never extend it past 21 days would they?
> 
> *Once triggered, these orders will remain in effect for at least 3 weeks. After that period, they will be lifted when a region’s projected ICU capacity meets or exceeds 15%. This will be assessed on a weekly basis after the initial 3 week period.*
> 
> All eyes in Southern California will be on the ICU capacity on 12/27 (too late to travel for the Surf Cup for Young ages).  Some of the Northern California counties are voluntarily in lockdown as the Bay Area as not fallen below 15% yet.  They intend to stay in lockdown as late as 1/9.  Sacramento doesn't leave lockdown until 1/1 ( too late to travel to Surf Cup for Older ages.)
> 
> In the end people will do whatever they want.  With any luck Surf Cup taking place doesn't lead to further negative consequences for youth sports in CA  or AZ.  All it takes is for one team to come back and have someone test positive even if they didn't get Covid 19 in Arizona. Maybe High School sports will start up sometime in January and games will start in February.
> 
> Looking forward to things getting back some sort of normal just in time for May/June tryouts.  At that point people can re assess whether or not clubs had their own best interests in mind by traveling out of state and holding scrimmages when they weren't supposed to, or if they had the players' best interests in mind.  Personally I feel the clubs are making poor and desperate decisions in order to try to compete for a few players that may bring them future prestige or development payments.


Wifey is getting vaccinated today, so things ARE moving forward.  But the behind the scenes logistics of administering the vaccine leaves a lot to be desired at this point.  Hopefully all the administrative kinks will get worked out sooner than later.


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> Why has all of this happened?  Because too many people refused to look past even their own short term interests. Remember when @MSK357 and his friends were calling this a hoax and were upset about social distancing because they claimed only 14, then 120, then only 1000 than no way it get above 12000? And when @Grace T. was encouraging unnecessary interstate travel and even gloating about it, and was ripping in masks until last week? And @Desert Hound complaining about not being able to go to bars and encouraging everyone to travel to AZ for kiddie soccer? Even now these people are blaming those who took it seriously and did their best to limit spread for causing people to commit suicide 10 months into a pandemic that they caused to spin out of control.
> 
> Don’t blame me for where we are.


I have no idea whose fault it.  I know Laguna and all the beach towns have obeyed, minus HB.  Tito is in charge down there now so let's keep an eye on that city.  Everywhere I go, everyone has a mask on.  Yet, the cases are through the roof in OC?  Why do we have this Virus in the first place brother ETOL?  How and why did it come to our shores bro?  WHO is benefiting from this pandemic?  Who is still in business and making billions?  Who has lost their businesses forever?  Who lost their job and never to see it again?  Who did all this bro?  Stop blaming Grace.  That is weak sauce dude and you know it.  Small business owners ((usually conservative, not always though)) are SOL.  All their workers are SOL and all those who make money with small business is also SOL.  That is a large part of the population.  The only one's who seem to be ok are the teachers, city workers, gov workers and a few others.  You know what the hell happen in Jan 5th, 2017 right?  Also, FB went crazy and all people like you got pissed and started this war.  Looks like cheating still and the those in the middle who lost everything will now be your and the Blue teams worse nightmare.  I will only obey, Seal Team 6 and all the other studs who will most likely need to come in and be the refs.  Sort the pile and get everyone off each other.  No more kickbacks and cheating is on it's way.  Get ready everyone.  Love you all.........Go America and go Army, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard, Police, Sherrifs and all those who want to be free and not a slave to the old system.  A system that picks winners and losers.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

MacDre said:


> Wifey is getting vaccinated today, so things ARE moving forward.  But the behind the scenes logistics of administering the vaccine leaves a lot to be desired at this point.  Hopefully all the administrative kinks will get worked out sooner than later.


Great news, Mac for both the country and your family. Also, thanks to your wife for "being out there" in very trying times.

One benefit of getting it to the first responders and folks in nursing care is that they get to the logistically "easiest" group first and they can learn from it for the more challenging groups ahead.


----------



## crush

and go Air Force.  I have a friend whose son fly's Stealth and he is ready for anything.  USA USA USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## crush

kickingandscreaming said:


> Great news, Mac for both the country and your family. Also, thanks to your wife for "being out there" in very trying times.
> 
> One benefit of getting it to the first responders and folks in nursing care is that they get to the logistically "easiest" group first and they can learn from it for the more challenging groups ahead.


My wife is turning 50 Dec 18th.  She was thinking of going into teaching for 10 years.  Maybe her own language studio or a job with the Union.  Q. Can she teach without the shot?  Will she even be able to live in this state without vaccine?  We can;t go shopping at Stater Brothers without a mask so I'm sure we will see, "No Vaccine=Get lost loser and leper."  Sign by ETOL Managert....lol!!! So funny, my wife and I are 100% healthier then we did in 1997. We both look really good for our age.  She never gets sick and I have been sick in a while.  Fruits, Veggies and few mixed nuts does and man wonders at my age.  I only need to lose 8 more Lbs to get to my pre-married wait.  I'm working my abs like no other.  I will have a six pack next year before my 55th bday.  However, we might have to move because me and the wife will never take that shot or any other man made BS!!!  We only bend for each other or Jesus.  Sorry Charlie, but that's how me and the Queen Bee roll.  My kids will probably take the poison.  My son wants to go back to the old way.  He misses college life and now he's in a frat, he wants to enjoy the frat life next year.  WHO knows what in this stuff.  Good luck and be careful what you put in your body.  Plus, at warp speed, more human mistakes can happen and we will all find out.  Eat healthier is way wiser then taking bat virus.  If you still want fast food and heart burn and the disease that comes with it, hap at it,


----------



## Lavey29

MacDre said:


> Wifey is getting vaccinated today, so things ARE moving forward.  But the behind the scenes logistics of administering the vaccine leaves a lot to be desired at this point.  Hopefully all the administrative kinks will get worked out sooner than later.


Is she a Front Line worker?


----------



## Jose has returned

Lavey29 said:


> So colleges around the country are going to be vetting student applications for Federal,  state and local china virus compliance?  Or just California colleges vetting California youth soccer players attending surf tournament?  Sure seems like a fair balanced approach huh?  What does a group of individuals on here, some with no kids involved in soccer continue to try and micro manage every aspect of this tournament with the gleeful hope of seeing the tournament canceled? You will be completely safe inside your bubble.  Let adults make THEIR OWN adult decisions regarding their kids sports activities.


I can't think of a coach that will say to him/herself gee this is a really nice player i really need a center mid...but you went to surf cup 2 years ago so i'll pass


----------



## Jose has returned

AGINAZ said:


> It would be interesting if California required travelling teams to quarantine for 14 days AFTER returning from AZ...


They (whoever they is) do not have the resources to follow anyone around who is coming in and out of the state.  THEY can't even keep the people making the decisions to abide by the rules.


----------



## Lavey29

Jose has returned said:


> I can't think of a coach that will say to him/herself gee this is a really nice player i really need a center mid...but you went to surf cup 2 years ago so i'll pass


Yes just more non sense


----------



## EOTL

crush said:


> My wife is turning 50 Dec 18th.  She was thinking of going into teaching for 10 years.  Maybe her own language studio or a job with the Union.  Q. Can she teach without the shot?  Will she even be able to live in this state without vaccine?  We can;t go shopping at Stater Brothers without a mask so I'm sure we will see, "No Vaccine=Get lost loser and leper."  Sign by ETOL Managert....lol!!! So funny, my wife and I are 100% healthier then we did in 1997. We both look really good for our age.  She never gets sick and I have been sick in a while.  Fruits, Veggies and few mixed nuts does and man wonders at my age.  I only need to lose 8 more Lbs to get to my pre-married wait.  I'm working my abs like no other.  I will have a six pack next year before my 55th bday.  However, we might have to move because me and the wife will never take that shot or any other man made BS!!!  We only bend for each other or Jesus.  Sorry Charlie, but that's how me and the Queen Bee roll.  My kids will probably take the poison.  My son wants to go back to the old way.  He misses college life and now he's in a frat, he wants to enjoy the frat life next year.  WHO knows what in this stuff.  Good luck and be careful what you put in your body.  Plus, at warp speed, more human mistakes can happen and we will all find out.  Eat healthier is way wiser then taking bat virus.  If you still want fast food and heart burn and the disease that comes with it, hap at it,


Like I said earlier, anti-vaxxers will continue to make this pandemic worse than it should be. They will finally get their chance to get in the way of herd immunity and cause 10s of thousands of more deaths, keep kids put of schools (not that these mostly home schoolers care about anyone other than themselves). Keep up with your continuing efforts to keep the pandemic going as long as possible. If only they could bring back polio too!


----------



## crush

Jose has returned said:


> I can't think of a coach that will say to him/herself gee this is a really nice player i really need a center mid...but you went to surf cup 2 years ago so i'll pass


Instead of "The List" from YNT, they will now pass the "Who went to Surf AZ List" and you will be black listed forever for taking a selfish risk.  Kid could try and appeal the process by letting the coaches know that it was really their crazy ass father who had to get one more tournament in before goat retires from the sport altogether.  Blame it on the rain and dad.  Dre, play that funky music......


----------



## SBFDad

GT45 said:


> What rules are people violating? The shut down is for three weeks. That ends a week before Surf Cup. AZ has no shut down.


This new stay home order will be more than 3 weeks. Still, I agree with you on the point of “what rules“. There is no rule against traveling out of state. This health order has no teeth, except for the few industries he targeted this time around.

If non-essential travel and movement were really prohibited, would he have left malls and retail open at 20% capacity? So you can go into Nordstrom, but you aren’t allowed to get there? It‘s all in the language of these orders, and quite frankly this most recent one was pretty pathetic. Cases and ICU admittance will slow eventually, but not because he shut down barbershops.


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> Like I said earlier, anti-vaxxers will continue to make this pandemic worse than it should be. They will finally get their chance to get in the way of herd immunity and cause 10s of thousands of more deaths, keep kids put of schools (not that these mostly home schoolers care about anyone other than themselves). Keep up with your continuing efforts to keep the pandemic going as long as possible. If only they could bring back polio too!


It is my wife's freedom were talking about and she has lived way better health wise then anyone I know.  She deserves a free pass because she earned it.  I was the chubby one and the one eating out all the time.  I had the bad back and all the depression that comes with it.  It was all my fault for being unhealthy.  How much you weigh?  Are you 100% healthy?  Be honest too....lol!  I was driving all over socal making $$$$ and driving my goat to practice at the Ranch and then Del Mar.  We did win State Cup, Far West Regionals and the National Championship so it was fun at the time.  Oh, two surf cup gold medals.  I have to support my wife and defend her right not to take Warp Speed Bat Sh*t that a bunch of fat cats and Gates and Dr F will make billions.  No way dude.  How long we got before we get discriminated against for being anti vaxxer?


----------



## MacDre

Lavey29 said:


> Is she a Front Line worker?


Yes.  She’s a Doctor.  The first case in Norcal reported to her office several times before testing was approved.  LoL, I bet if my kid attended some of those Arizona tournaments, there would’ve several more positive cases.

I haven’t been hiding in my bubble, I’ve been waddling in the COVID cesspool.


----------



## Lavey29

MacDre said:


> Yes.  She’s a Doctor.  The first case in Norcal reported to her office several times before testing was approved.  LoL, I bet if my kid attended some of those Arizona tournaments, there would’ve several more positive cases.
> 
> I haven’t been hiding in my bubble, I’ve been waddling in the COVID cesspool.


Well, god bless her and protect her in this time of need. I'm glad they are getting vaccine to those that need it first. I've been to multiple clinics and tournament in Arizona with my family and no issues what so ever. Common sense goes a long way to mitigate potential hazards and of course NOTHING scientifically proven to show youth sports causes china virus spikes which is why like 45 other states have had all their youth sports programs operational all year long.


----------



## MacDre

Jose has returned said:


> I can't think of a coach that will say to him/herself gee this is a really nice player i really need a center mid...but you went to surf cup 2 years ago so i'll pass


I’m not talking about the coach.  I’m talking about the the folks that the AD’s answer to having a problem with going out of state.  The college administrator that I am referring to has lost a parent during COVID and has expressed to me that they think traveling out of state for youth tournaments is selfish and irresponsible.

The coach.  You got me all the way fucked up patna...I don’t associate with the help.


----------



## dad4

I think LA will have a legal scrimmage or league game before April fool’s day.  OC, SD, and Bay Area by May Day.

We are expecting 50M people vaccinated by early Feb.  Unless we are idiots and open up bars and restaurants again, that will be enough to drive Rt below 0.9 and put cases into free fall.  

If we are idiots again, add a month or two.


----------



## Glitterhater

crush said:


> It is my wife's freedom were talking about and she has lived way better health wise then anyone I know.  She deserves a free pass because she earned it.  I was the chubby one and the one eating out all the time.  I had the bad back and all the depression that comes with it.  It was all my fault for being unhealthy.  How much you weigh?  Are you 100% healthy?  Be honest too....lol!  I was driving all over socal making $$$$ and driving my goat to practice at the Ranch and then Del Mar.  We did win State Cup, Far West Regionals and the National Championship so it was fun at the time.  Oh, two surf cup gold medals.  I have to support my wife and defend her right not to take Warp Speed Bat Sh*t that a bunch of fat cats and Gates and Dr F will make billions.  No way dude.  How long we got before we get discriminated against for being anti vaxxer?


What do all your DD's medals have to do with any of this? Do you just try to work that in whenever possible? And, not touching the anti vax stuff.


----------



## Glitterhater

MacDre said:


> Yes.  She’s a Doctor.  The first case in Norcal reported to her office several times before testing was approved.  LoL, I bet if my kid attended some of those Arizona tournaments, there would’ve several more positive cases.
> 
> I haven’t been hiding in my bubble, I’ve been waddling in the COVID cesspool.


Thanks be to your wife and all her colleagues!


----------



## crush

Glitterhater said:


> What do all your DD's medals have to do with any of this? Do you just try to work that in whenever possible? And, not touching the anti vax stuff.


It goes hand & hand Glitter Hater. I love that avtar name.  I hate glitter too.  I'm here for a purpose.  I was also responding only to EOTL, not everyone else.  Most have me on ignore so no worries.  EOTL makes fun of me so I like to poke him back.  Do you know our history?


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> I’m not talking about the coach.  I’m talking about the the folks that the AD’s answer to having a problem with going out of state.  The college administrator that I am referring to has lost a parent during COVID and has expressed to me that they think traveling out of state for youth tournaments is selfish and irresponsible.
> 
> The coach.  You got me all the way fucked up patna...I don’t associate with the help.


I knew that was the reason.  They are watching big time.  My dd will have to go to some far away radical Christian or all woman's private college to play with freedom I guess. State school, forget it.  Admin is in charge big time.  I'm hoping the bleach will get to them asap.....lol, just kidding.  Time is running out as we speak.  They already hate me for obvious reason so they will blame me, right Dre?  Them guys have been watching me big time? What a messy mess this all is.  Hands everywhere Dre.  Bummer!!!!


----------



## socalkdg

dad4 said:


> I think LA will have a legal scrimmage or league game before April fool’s day.  OC, SD, and Bay Area by May Day.
> 
> We are expecting 50M people vaccinated by early Feb.  Unless we are idiots and open up bars and restaurants again, that will be enough to drive Rt below 0.9 and put cases into free fall.
> 
> If we are idiots again, add a month or two.


Don't completely agree with the rollout demographics.   There are 50 million people age 65 and older.   80% of the people dying from covid are 65 and older.  Why not give the first 50 million doses to these people?   Save their lives first since their chances of dying are dramatically larger than the under 65 crowd.


----------



## watfly

dad4 said:


> I think LA will have a legal scrimmage or league game before April fool’s day.  OC, SD, and Bay Area by May Day.
> 
> We are expecting 50M people vaccinated by early Feb.  Unless we are idiots and open up bars and restaurants again, that will be enough to drive Rt below 0.9 and put cases into free fall.
> 
> If we are idiots again, add a month or two.


My crystal ball is broken, but based on pandemic history I don't see LA (which has been more restrictive with more infections) opening up before OC and SD.  I hope your right about league play beginning in April or May.  I'm not quite as optimistic, I think it will be closer to July 1, based on permission from the powers that be.  Much earlier if its science based.

I hate to break it to you, but bars and restaurants will be open before youth soccer games will return.  Do I think that's the right Covid decision, no, but from an economic standpoint food service takes priority over youth soccer.  Education should take priority over all, and should be open now.


----------



## MacDre

socalkdg said:


> Don't completely agree with the rollout demographics.   There are 50 million people age 65 and older.   80% of the people dying from covid are 65 and older.  Why not give the first 50 million doses to these people?   Save their lives first since their chances of dying are dramatically larger than the under 65 crowd.


Because folks would then say “the man” was trying to kill old folks.  I think it was necessary to include medical professionals in the initial 50 million to increase public confidence in the vaccine.


----------



## Dubs

MacDre said:


> Yep.  I actually think its kinda dumb to record oneself violating rules and then submit the recording to a university in hopes of gaining admission.  Your thoughts?


This is an interesting thought for sure.  However, my experience thus far from clubs is one of almost indifference to the pandemic and a sentiment that you must put your passion/desire to play above all else....even public health.  Anything short of that means you're letting your team down?  SMH.  Of course everyone wants to play and this effects a club's livelihood, but I'm truly shocked by the lack of care especially when Cali collleges aren't playing.  What makes the club any different.  I guess this is a question to the college coach.  I'm curious about the answer as well.


----------



## dad4

MacDre said:


> Because folks would then say “the man” was trying to kill old folks.  I think it was necessary to include medical professionals in the initial 50 million to increase public confidence in the vaccine.


And because medical professions are very highly connected.  A GP sees a lot of different people in a day, usually in a small enclosed room.  Even if medical staff weren’t saving our bacon on this, you’d still want to vaccinate them just to reduce spread.


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> And because medical professions are very highly connected.  A GP sees a lot of different people in a day, usually in a small enclosed room.  Even if medical staff weren’t saving our bacon on this, you’d still want to vaccinate them just to reduce spread.


Or, eat healthy and wear a mask?  Plus, wash hands as all Docs do.  I know a Doc  ((super smart Doc and not a Coo Coo )) who has other remedies then a vaccine.  Your starting to sound like a dope pusher for big pharma?  Teacher stock in that game?


----------



## Chalklines

How many selfish parents will drop their kids off at school again the following day after the tournament despite school districts requests to quarantine after out-of-state travel? 

Better yet how many parents will tell their kids to lie about going to the tournament?


----------



## MacDre

Dubs said:


> This is an interesting thought for sure.  However, my experience thus far from clubs is one of almost indifference to the pandemic and a sentiment that you must put your passion/desire to play above all else....even public health.  Anything short of that means you're letting your team down?  SMH.  Of course everyone wants to play and this effects a club's livelihood, but I'm truly shocked by the lack of care especially when Cali collleges aren't playing.  What makes the club any different.  I guess this is a question to the college coach.  I'm curious about the answer as well.


No coach can give a definitive answer because there are too many variables.  Worst case scenario is easily forseeable; outbreak and someone dies.  There’s a professionally shot 4k video connecting your kid to the event.  Reporters get video.  Coach denies knowing your kid.


----------



## dad4

Chalklines said:


> How many selfish parents will drop their kids off at school again the following day after the tournament despite school districts requests to quarantine after out-of-state travel?
> 
> Better yet how many parents will tell their kids to lie about going to the tournament?


Oh, lots.  If you are willing to violate the stay at home order for a tournament, you’re probably willing to lie to the school about leaving the state.

My middle schooler’s school just closed up after Thanksgiving, all the way through mid January.  They didn’t even pretend to it was possible to trust that many different sets of parents.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

socalkdg said:


> Don't completely agree with the rollout demographics.   There are 50 million people age 65 and older.   80% of the people dying from covid are 65 and older.  Why not give the first 50 million doses to these people?   Save their lives first since their chances of dying are dramatically larger than the under 65 crowd.


I support the rollout demographics
- Many in the high-risk group are included in the initial phase (nursing homes, etc.)
- Due to proximity, front-line health care workers have a high potential of catching and transmitting the virus
- This initial rollout is likely the easiest group to quickly get vaccinated.
- This group is generally "pro-vaccine" and will serve as further evidence that the vaccine is safe (we hope)
- We will also learn a lot about what works and what doesn't in terms of logistics for the "less centralized" groups that will be vaccinated later


----------



## Grace T.

MacDre said:


> No coach can give a definitive answer because there are too many variables.  Worst case scenario is easily forseeable; outbreak and someone dies.  There’s a professionally shot 4k video connecting your kid to the event.  Reporters get video.  Coach denies knowing your kid.


Lawyers and their worst case scenario parade of horribles are such bummers.


----------



## crush

Chalklines said:


> How many selfish parents will drop their kids off at school again the following day after the tournament despite school districts requests to quarantine after out-of-state travel?
> 
> Better yet how many parents will tell their kids to lie about going to the tournament?


My kid has online school from 11:30-1:30 so no reason to have fear or judge us as a selfish family because we left the state to play some soccer.  So much selfishness going on in todays world CK.  Where have you fallen short in your selfishness bro?  We ((my family of four)) always wear a mask, always wash our hands, stay 6 feet away from others when going out and look to help others.  Selfishness is the biggest sin we all have.  Christ said, "Deny yourself and carry your cross ((die to self)) daily and then come follow me."  You're not far from the Kingdom bro with that attitude.  Just stop judging is my advice.  I built a sink at my front door to keep that virus away from me and my wife.  I only go out from 5am-9am only now to keep the virus away.  Surf if waves are pumping or just walk on the beach with my dog Oreo and throw tennis ball. Meditate for peace in my Chakra and make sure that my one eye is alive.  Two eyes get you into trouble.  Left or right?  It's my time alone with Mother Nature and all her beauty. Basically, God is the Sacred Divine Feminine and the Divine Masculine, all in one Energy of Love.  Mom and Dad ((God)) and their Sun Jesus.  The moon is Mother Earth and she represents all the woman from Eve.  The Masculine side of the earth has been run by guys like Cain.  Mother earth is pissed off at the Masculine side of man on earth.  Man basically has been running the show and now woman is going to look to be equal.  She should be too and I support that equality big time.  I swear I surrendered to my wife and my dd long ago.  My love for my wife is amazing and my relationship with my dd is out of this world.  I gave her her freedom and that was huge to her.  God gave me freedom so shouldnt I give her and my wife their freedom?  God is both mom and dad, MOO.   Super rad if you ask me.  Wash hands before you set foot in my casa.  I told my dd she is my biggest worry and threat and she better obey.  She has a box of mask in the car and where we live, you cant move about without following the rules.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Chalklines said:


> How many selfish parents will drop their kids off at school again the following day after the tournament despite school districts requests to quarantine after out-of-state travel?
> 
> Better yet how many parents will tell their kids to lie about going to the tournament?


Better question....how many kids are actually even able to back to school?


----------



## GT45

ITFC Blues said:


> They would never extend it past 21 days would they?
> 
> *Once triggered, these orders will remain in effect for at least 3 weeks. After that period, they will be lifted when a region’s projected ICU capacity meets or exceeds 15%. This will be assessed on a weekly basis after the initial 3 week period.*
> 
> All eyes in Southern California will be on the ICU capacity on 12/27 (too late to travel for the Surf Cup for Young ages).  Some of the Northern California counties are voluntarily in lockdown as the Bay Area as not fallen below 15% yet.  They intend to stay in lockdown as late as 1/9.  Sacramento doesn't leave lockdown until 1/1 ( too late to travel to Surf Cup for Older ages.)
> 
> In the end people will do whatever they want.  With any luck Surf Cup taking place doesn't lead to further negative consequences for youth sports in CA  or AZ.  All it takes is for one team to come back and have someone test positive even if they didn't get Covid 19 in Arizona. Maybe High School sports will start up sometime in January and games will start in February.
> 
> Looking forward to things getting back some sort of normal just in time for May/June tryouts.  At that point people can re assess whether or not clubs had their own best interests in mind by traveling out of state and holding scrimmages when they weren't supposed to, or if they had the players' best interests in mind.  Personally I feel the clubs are making poor and desperate decisions in order to try to compete for a few players that may bring them future prestige or development payments.


BUt, you are not answering my question. What rules are people violating by going to another state?


----------



## GT45

tjinaz said:


> What do you think the chances are that it extends beyond 3 weeks?  I am thinking to the end of January at the earliest.
> 
> Link has some bad words in it.
> 
> Gavin Holiday Greeting


What rules are people violating though? You ignored the question.


----------



## tjinaz

GT45 said:


> What rules are people violating though? You ignored the question.


Define rule.  Technically I think the government in these cases is pretty limited on what they can actually enforce.


----------



## socalkdg

Chalklines said:


> How many selfish parents will drop their kids off at school again the following day after the tournament despite school districts requests to quarantine after out-of-state travel?
> 
> Better yet how many parents will tell their kids to lie about going to the tournament?


Everyone in our district is still at home.   No dropping off at school.    I also hit double digits with how many teachers I know that have broken the rules and could infect the kids if they were actually teaching in class.  Winery's, book club, Friendsgiving, cookie exchanges, watching their kids play volleyball inside.  You name it,  it happened.   Shut down everything inside and let people go out.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

socalkdg said:


> Everyone in our district is still at home.   No dropping off at school.    I also hit double digits with how many teachers I know that have broken the rules and could infect the kids if they were actually teaching in class.  Winery's, book club, Friendsgiving, cookie exchanges, watching their kids play volleyball inside.  You name it,  it happened.   Shut down everything inside and let people go out.


My high school boys don't even want to go to school anymore.  They are liking this zoom teaching.  One thing for sure, most of the kids are going to be in very bad fitness when they actually get to play a game.  My girl's 1 mile run this weekend was as slow as a middle aged person.  No christmas cookies for her


----------



## crush

SoccerFan4Life said:


> My high school boys don't even want to go to school anymore.  They are liking this zoom teaching.  One thing for sure, most of the kids are going to be in very bad fitness when they actually get to play a game.  My girl's 1 mile run this weekend was as slow as a middle aged person.  No christmas cookies for her


My dd getting straight A's this year.  Her classes first trimester was 9-1:30.  2nd Trimester is only 11:30-1:30.  One class.  I would b the water before class and after class.  No hoops or baseball, oh well, surfing would be just find and dandy.  My dd is going online throughout her Jr year.  All A's so her GPA is now where it needs to be for the other half of the ride.


----------



## watfly

Chalklines said:


> How many selfish parents will drop their kids off at school again the following day after the tournament despite school districts requests to quarantine after out-of-state travel?
> 
> Better yet how many parents will tell their kids to lie about going to the tournament?


I wish I could drop my kid off at school for full-time, in-person learning.  Criminal that I can't.

Unless your kid has been locked down the entire time, no practices, no hanging out with friends, etc, you're drawing an arbitrary line in the sand based upon your own risk comfort level.

Not attending Surf, BTW.


----------



## Jose has returned

MacDre said:


> I’m not talking about the coach.  I’m talking about the the folks that the AD’s answer to having a problem with going out of state.  The college administrator that I am referring to has lost a parent during COVID and has expressed to me that they think traveling out of state for youth tournaments is selfish and irresponsible.
> 
> The coach.  You got me all the way fucked up patna...I don’t associate with the help.


So the college administrator is going to tell the coach to turn down a player just because they went to surf cup when they were 15-18 years old?  Now is this just soccer or will they go after football, basketball, baseball, lacrosse, waterpolo, golf, wrestling, track, crew, tennis and dance? My guess they don't ask.


----------



## Jose has returned

Chalklines said:


> How many selfish parents will drop their kids off at school again the following day after the tournament despite school districts requests to quarantine after out-of-state travel?
> 
> Better yet how many parents will tell their kids to lie about going to the tournament?


i wouldn't tell them to lie  but drop them off at school absolutely.  Wear a mask and SD it won't spread to classmates.


----------



## Glitterhater

I am still amazed at how (arbitrarily) different each school district is. Our cases are higher than they have even been and our kids are in school, (on campus,) in a cohort model. 

Sorry for y'all who have not even had a creative schedule for in-person, something is better than nothing in *some cases.


----------



## MacDre

Jose has returned said:


> So the college administrator is going to tell the coach to turn down a player just because they went to surf cup when they were 15-18 years old?  Now is this just soccer or will they go after football, basketball, baseball, lacrosse, waterpolo, golf, wrestling, track, crew, tennis and dance? My guess they don't ask.


Maybe.  Maybe not.  I just think it’s important for folks to consider all of the possibilities.


----------



## TOSDCI

Chalklines said:


> How many selfish parents will drop their kids off at school again the following day after the tournament despite school districts requests to quarantine after out-of-state travel?
> 
> Better yet how many parents will tell their kids to lie about going to the tournament?


This is not to be sarcastic but I really want to know.....why is it necessary to quarantine after being out of state where you may or may not have been exposed?  Any place you go (school, work, grocery store) requires masks and distancing.  We wear masks and stay away from people to avoid getting infected or passing it to someone else so why would you be expected to quarantine as well?


----------



## crush

Glitterhater said:


> I am still amazed at how (arbitrarily) different each school district is. Our cases are higher than they have even been and our kids are in school, (on campus,) in a cohort model.
> 
> Sorry for y'all who have not even had a creative schedule for in-person, something is better than nothing in *some cases.


My dd is in heaven.  Wake up at 11, have lunch and then a class and it's all over.  Go train and then fun with friends.  Only thing she misses is soccer but she has more time now to hang with her friends.


----------



## dad4

Jose has returned said:


> i wouldn't tell them to lie  but drop them off at school absolutely.  Wear a mask and SD it won't spread to classmates.


You'd drop them off and not tell the school that they went out of state?

Parents like you are one reason why the schools have trouble opening.  You can trust 90% of families to be honest and quarantine.  The other 10% would drop their kids off and not tell anyone.

But, because 10% would "absolutely" drop their kid off after a potential exposure, perceived risk is higher and it's more difficult to justify opening.

 ( I know, _you_ are certain that the risk is "zero", in all caps with exclamation marks.  Other people disagree with that assessment.  )


----------



## Glitterhater

crush said:


> My dd is in heaven.  Wake up at 11, have lunch and then a class and it's all over.  Go train and then fun with friends.  Only thing she misses is soccer but she has more time now to hang with her friends.


As I'm sure you're aware, this is not the case for a good number of kids.


----------



## crush

Glitterhater said:


> *As I'm sure you're aware, this is not the case for a good number of kids.*


Yes I know.  My buddy wifey poo teaches kids in LA from her Orange Hills estate.  30% of her 17 year olds are missing.  70% only have to log in and they get an A to participate.  Hopefully by next Fall classes can begin.  Her life is amazing and so is his. He works from home too and they have a live in 18 year old helping around the house.  Life style of the rich and famous


----------



## 46n2

dad4 said:


> You'd drop them off and not tell the school that they went out of state?
> 
> Parents like you are one reason why the schools have trouble opening.  You can trust 90% of families to be honest and quarantine.  The other 10% would drop their kids off and not tell anyone.
> 
> But, because 10% would "absolutely" drop their kid off after a potential exposure, perceived risk is higher and it's more difficult to justify opening.
> 
> ( I know, _you_ are certain that the risk is "zero", in all caps with exclamation marks.  Other people disagree with that assessment.  )


How can you put any boundaries on any of this, where's the science????

First off , everyone has been going out of state for scrimmages have they not?  

Why is it different from going to Los Angeles and then to San Diego , 

AZ your in a car for 6 hours, your outside at the sidelines wearing mask , like you do at Trader Joes off mission ave, then you isolate in a room eating take out 

How is going out of state more exposure than going to a big box store locally?  Is there a invisible contagious cloud of smoke you drive thru...

Or eating in a restaurant patio outside with 45 people under a tent in Vista....thats pretty safe right...

Going into a closed space and touching other things that people have looked at--Costco, best buy, amazon fresh...

Can you explain the science for me there Im lost.....

What you are doing is all you need to worry about.......

Imagine------ , Hey Jimmy went Xmas shopping at Walmart, theres 1000k people inside there , how are you not having a problem with that???

How can you put any boundaries on any of this


----------



## 46n2

and fyi Im not arguing with anyone just curious as to why you think its not safe to go out of state but its ok to go shopping at the mall where theres thousands of people touching handrails, doors, everything???


----------



## Jose has returned

46n2 said:


> How can you put any boundaries on any of this, where's the science????
> 
> First off , everyone has been going out of state for scrimmages have they not?
> 
> Why is it different from going to Los Angeles and then to San Diego ,
> 
> AZ your in a car for 6 hours, your outside at the sidelines wearing mask , like you do at Trader Joes off mission ave, then you isolate in a room eating take out
> 
> How is going out of state more exposure than going to a big box store locally?  Is there a invisible contagious cloud of smoke you drive thru...
> 
> Or eating in a restaurant patio outside with 45 people under a tent in Vista....thats pretty safe right...
> 
> Going into a closed space and touching other things that people have looked at--Costco, best buy, amazon fresh...
> 
> Can you explain the science for me there Im lost.....
> 
> What you are doing is all you need to worry about.......
> 
> Imagine------ , Hey Jimmy went Xmas shopping at Walmart, theres 1000k people inside there , how are you not having a problem with that???
> 
> How can you put any boundaries on any of this


Nailed it!


----------



## 46n2

Id personally be more worried about you (if you were my co worker) going to a walmart or christmas shopping at costco than going out of state to watch your kid play soccer outside at a fucking park?
I was at walmart just 2 days ago and I was blown away at the amount of people inside, over a thousand for sure if there is a super spreader--- its the stores where people touch stuff.  


I stole this from Web MD.

Viruses spread from person to person mainly in droplets that fly out when you cough or sneeze. These tiny drops from a sick person move through the air and land on the mouths or noses of others nearby.

Germs are also passed along when you touch mucus droplets from someone else on a surface like a desk and then touch your own eyes, mouth, or nose before you get a chance to wash your hands. Viruses like the flu can live 24 hours or longer on plastic and metal surfaces like cafeteria tables, doorknobs, and cups.


----------



## MacDre

I’d say shopping is necessary and worth the risk.  Organized youth sports are unnecessary and not worth the risk.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

MacDre said:


> I’d say shopping is necessary and worth the risk.  Organized youth sports are unnecessary and not worth the risk.


If I didn’t have my last child  still in youth sports, I would care less about this topic.  First  keep small businesses open, restaurants, then schools, then gyms, and last would be club sports.


----------



## MrCruett

SoccerFan4Life said:


> If I didn’t have my last child  still in youth sports, I would care less about this topic.


Im not the type to hide behind the "what about the kids" talking point, but...Even knowing what affect this is having on them, would you still care less about this topic?


----------



## watfly

TOSDCI said:


> This is not to be sarcastic but I really want to know.....why is it necessary to quarantine after being out of state where you may or may not have been exposed?  Any place you go (school, work, grocery store) requires masks and distancing.  We wear masks and stay away from people to avoid getting infected or passing it to someone else so why would you be expected to quarantine as well?


Because there is this harebrained and scientifically unfounded idea now that we should quarantine healthy people.  I don't know if its based on shear stupidity or fear.  Sick or exposed, 100% yes, you should quarantine.

Waiting for inane retort of "Well how do you know you haven't been exposed?"


----------



## dad4

watfly said:


> Because there is this harebrained and scientifically unfounded idea now that we should quarantine healthy people.  I don't know if its based on shear stupidity or fear.  Sick or exposed, 100% yes, you should quarantine.
> 
> Waiting for inane retort of "Well how do you know you haven't been exposed?"


Why is the retort inane?  By now, it is quite clear that many contagious people have no clue they are spreading it.  Equivalently, many people who feel healthy are actually contagious.

The problem is not that the argument is weak.  The problem is that it leads to a conclusion you don't like.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

MrCruett said:


> Im not the type to hide behind the "what about the kids" talking point, but...Even knowing what affect this is having on them, would you still care less about this topic?


As long as they can go to school.  School is more important than club.  They can get the social and sports aspect at school.  Club sports  is not a must have criteria.


----------



## watfly

dad4 said:


> Why is the retort inane?  By now, it is quite clear that many contagious people have no clue they are spreading it.  Equivalently, many people who feel healthy are actually contagious.
> 
> The problem is not that the argument is weak.  The problem is that it leads to a conclusion you don't like.


Because you only have to quarantine for the following "close contact" exposures to a Covid positive person as described by the CDC as follows:

*What counts as close contact?*


You were within 6 feet of someone who has COVID-19 for a total of 15 minutes or more
You provided care at home to someone who is sick with COVID-19
You had direct physical contact with the person (hugged or kissed them)
You shared eating or drinking utensils
They sneezed, coughed, or somehow got respiratory droplets on you
All these things are incredibly easy to avoid at a soccer tournament (from any human, infected or not).   That's how I know that I've not had a quarantinable exposure.  You, and others want to assume that going to a soccer tournament is dangerous, if you want to make the conclusion based on your risk level, more power to you.  But again don't project your fears onto others behaviors when you have no basis to do so.  If you want to quarantine yourself and go beyond the CDC guidance that's your choice, but you don't get to make that choice for me.


----------



## Anon9

dad4 said:


> Why is the retort inane?  By now, it is quite clear that many contagious people have no clue they are spreading it.  Equivalently, many people who feel healthy are actually contagious.
> 
> The problem is not that the argument is weak.  The problem is that it leads to a conclusion you don't like.


Just curious if you quarantined when you went to Reno a month ago.


----------



## Jose has returned

Anon9 said:


> Just curious if you quarantined when you went to Reno a month ago.


Most importantly did he tell the school he went to Reno....


----------



## Soccer Bum 06

SoccerFan4Life said:


> If I didn’t have my last child  still in youth sports, I would care less about this topic.  First  keep small businesses open, restaurants, then schools, then gyms, and last would be club sports.


Why can’t we keep all activities that are not causing spread of the disease open? Shouldn’t be a peeking order or have to pick one over the other. I find all you listed important to having a healthy community. Viruses are not the only things that cause problems for communities. Poverty, obesity, lack of education are all long term symptoms of a unhealthy population. What is being done by these lockdowns and school closures is short sighted and not looking at the long term impacts to all people.


----------



## 46n2

Jose has returned said:


> Most importantly did he tell the school he went to Reno....


nailed it!


----------



## soccer4us

Outdoor and Indoor Youth and Recreational Adult Sports
					






					www.cdph.ca.gov
				




So how many years...oh I mean months is the Orange tier away for CA....


----------



## Soccer Bum 06

soccer4us said:


> Outdoor and Indoor Youth and Recreational Adult Sports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cdph.ca.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how many years...oh I mean months is the Orange tier away for CA....


Governor doubling down on his faulty colored tier system. Why should the kids getting to play be any more important than anything else tied to this horribly constructed non-scientific system designed to ruin this state? I wasn’t expecting anything less from this failure.


----------



## EOTL

crush said:


> Or, eat healthy and wear a mask?  Plus, wash hands as all Docs do.  I know a Doc  ((super smart Doc and not a Coo Coo )) who has other remedies then a vaccine.  Your starting to sound like a dope pusher for big pharma?  Teacher stock in that game?


I hear if you have little shark’s fin with honey, then spin counterclockwise three times you can avoid polio away. But only if you do it during a full moon.


----------



## EOTL

TOSDCI said:


> This is not to be sarcastic but I really want to know.....why is it necessary to quarantine after being out of state where you may or may not have been exposed?  Any place you go (school, work, grocery store) requires masks and distancing.  We wear masks and stay away from people to avoid getting infected or passing it to someone else so why would you be expected to quarantine as well?


Because virtually every state in the country has much higher infection and mortality rates than CA. Because all the contacts you will have at the airport and all the other places you go significantly increases the risk that you will bring it to CA. Because taking steps to discourage mass travel significantly reduces the number of interactions people have which, in turn, substantially slows down the rate of transmission. Because if you can’t travel, the 1000 people you would have had some close contact with at the airport and during your visit, and the 1000 they had, and the 1000 they had, is now zero. You only have your trip to the grocery store and the five people you ran into there that you can potentially kill.


----------



## EOTL

Soccer Bum 06 said:


> Governor doubling down on his faulty colored tier system. Why should the kids getting to play be any more important than anything else tied to this horribly constructed non-scientific system designed to ruin this state? I wasn’t expecting anything less from this failure.


Ha ha. Enjoy your bubble.


----------



## EOTL

Soccer Bum 06 said:


> Why can’t we keep all activities that are not causing spread of the disease open? Shouldn’t be a peeking order or have to pick one over the other. I find all you listed important to having a healthy community. Viruses are not the only things that cause problems for communities. Poverty, obesity, lack of education are all long term symptoms of a unhealthy population. What is being done by these lockdowns and school closures is short sighted and not looking at the long term impacts to all people.


Yes, lack of education is clearly a major driver to this pandemic. Get some education.


----------



## Grace T.

soccer4us said:


> Outdoor and Indoor Youth and Recreational Adult Sports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cdph.ca.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how many years...oh I mean months is the Orange tier away for CA....


-So am I reading this right?...mask are required even for water polo?
-So anyone see any wiggle room for out of state tournaments?....seems pretty definitive to me.
-January 25, 2021 is the earliest.  If the CDC is right and nursing home residents will be immunized by the end of January with the 2 shot doses, we'll see a substantial drop in the death rate.  But given this is tied to the various tiers and those tiers are set by cases that's not going to help us. Guess that's all she wrote for any chance of a season?
-Wait....baseball and cheerleading are in the moderate category.....errr, the cheerleaders get closer than soccer players do for lifts, and I guess no one thought about the baseball catcher.  Maybe CalSouth is just really bad at lobbying their tier.  Volleyball, though, is in the same tier as us????

-
-


----------



## soccer4us

Grace T. said:


> -So am I reading this right?...mask are required even for water polo?
> -So anyone see any wiggle room for out of state tournaments?....seems pretty definitive to me.
> -January 25, 2021 is the earliest.  If the CDC is right and nursing home residents will be immunized by the end of January with the 2 shot doses, we'll see a substantial drop in the death rate.  But given this is tied to the various tiers and those tiers are set by cases that's not going to help us. Guess that's all she wrote for any chance of a season?
> -Wait....baseball and cheerleading are in the moderate category.....errr, the cheerleaders get closer than soccer players do for lifts, and I guess no one thought about the baseball catcher.  Maybe CalSouth is just really bad at lobbying their tier.  Volleyball, though, is in the same tier as us????
> 
> -
> -


How about football and rugby are same tier as soccer.....yeah, that must follow the "science"


----------



## Grace T.

soccer4us said:


> How about football and rugby are same tier as soccer.....yeah, that must follow the "science"


CalSouth should have hired whoever lobbied for the cheerleaders....


----------



## Jose has returned

soccer4us said:


> Outdoor and Indoor Youth and Recreational Adult Sports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cdph.ca.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how many years...oh I mean months is the Orange tier away for CA....


The OC isn't a favorite area of the state remember the fake beach pictures.


----------



## Jose has returned

Grace T. said:


> CalSouth should have hired whoever lobbied for the cheerleaders....





soccer4us said:


> How about football and rugby are same tier as soccer.....yeah, that must follow the "science"


science fiction bro


----------



## EOTL

Grace T. said:


> -So am I reading this right?...mask are required even for water polo?
> -So anyone see any wiggle room for out of state tournaments?....seems pretty definitive to me.
> -January 25, 2021 is the earliest.  If the CDC is right and nursing home residents will be immunized by the end of January with the 2 shot doses, we'll see a substantial drop in the death rate.  But given this is tied to the various tiers and those tiers are set by cases that's not going to help us. Guess that's all she wrote for any chance of a season?
> -Wait....baseball and cheerleading are in the moderate category.....errr, the cheerleaders get closer than soccer players do for lifts, and I guess no one thought about the baseball catcher.  Maybe CalSouth is just really bad at lobbying their tier.  Volleyball, though, is in the same tier as us????
> 
> -
> -


Baseball involves substantially less close personal contact than soccer. Cheerleading can also with appropriate modification that includes social distancing. I’d think you would welcome people being able to do something they love so long as it can be reasonably modified to avoid close contact. Oh wait, you don’t care about anyone else, you’re just looking for excuses to do what you want.  The American Way.


----------



## Soccer Bum 06

Grace T. said:


> -So anyone see any wiggle room for out of state tournaments?....seems pretty definitive to me.


Wiggle room? I am not a lawyer and cannot speak for those who run a youth sports program, but do think of myself as a free person that will take the CDHP poorly conceived guidance under advisement and continue to make decisions that are in the best interest of my family. Looking at how other states have been able to have youth sports with few issues, I believe it is safe for my kids. To me this is guidance not law and changes nothing in my eyes.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Soccer Bum 06 said:


> Wiggle room? I am not a lawyer and cannot speak for those who run a youth sports program, but do think of myself as a free person that will take the CDHP poorly conceived guidance under advisement and continue to make decisions that are in the best interest of my family. Looking at how other states have been able to have youth sports with few issues, I believe it is safe for my kids. To me this is guidance not law and changes nothing in my eyes.


Agree personally. But, how will clubs deal with this? For example, any California teams wanting to go to Surf Cup now have to explicitly violate state health guidelines.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

This list has Chearleading and football on the high risk.  Soccer is on the moderate risk level. 








						Here’s how 25 sports have been divided into high, moderate, low COVID-19 risk categories
					

Will it be safe for children, high schoolers or anybody to play sports amid the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic? Experts have divided 25 popular sports into three categories: high, moderate and low risk.




					www.clickondetroit.com


----------



## ITFC Blues

Soccerfan2 said:


> Agree personally. But, how will clubs deal with this? For example, any California teams wanting to go to Surf Cup now have to explicitly violate state health guidelines.


I don't see any wiggle room in this from the guidance

*Teams must not participate in out-of-state tournaments; *several multistate outbreaks have been reported in CA residents and around the nation.


----------



## soccer4us

ITFC Blues said:


> I don't see any wiggle room in this from the guidance
> 
> *Teams must not participate in out-of-state tournaments; *several multistate outbreaks have been reported in CA residents and around the nation.


Law suits will come if they stay strong on travel in 2 months time or so. Good times coming


----------



## Grace T.

Soccer Bum 06 said:


> Wiggle room? I am not a lawyer and cannot speak for those who run a youth sports program, but do think of myself as a free person that will take the CDHP poorly conceived guidance under advisement and continue to make decisions that are in the best interest of my family. Looking at how other states have been able to have youth sports with few issues, I believe it is safe for my kids. To me this is guidance not law and changes nothing in my eyes.


The issue, as has been discussed before, is that if the wording is definitive enough it will nullifying any insurance the club is carrying.  Also now it depends on how the governing entities will respond to the guidance....they might be pressured to suspend orgs and clubs that violate the prohibition. 

The Volleyball lobbyists were asleep at the wheel.   How is dodgeball any different in contact?


----------



## ITFC Blues

Grace T. said:


> CalSouth should have hired whoever lobbied for the cheerleaders....


On the bright side Corn Hole is allowed in purple tier.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

Soccer Bum 06 said:


> Why can’t we keep all activities that are not causing spread of the disease open? Shouldn’t be a peeking order or have to pick one over the other. I find all you listed important to having a healthy community. Viruses are not the only things that cause problems for communities. Poverty, obesity, lack of education are all long term symptoms of a unhealthy population. What is being done by these lockdowns and school closures is short sighted and not looking at the long term impacts to all people.


Like I said on the other post, opening up schools and allowing pe is more important than allowing club sports.   I am not saying that I like it but the rest of the world could care less about club sports.


----------



## Grace T.

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Like I said on the other post, opening up schools and allowing pe is more important than allowing club sports.   I am not saying that I like it but the rest of the world could care less about club sports.


It's not just club sports too....it's also got implication for rec sports (AYSO spring league, for example) and school based sports (that's probably all she wrote for the football season)


----------



## dad4

You all are missing the point.

We finally have a set of rules which allows local games.  This hasn’t been true since March.

Best news we’ve had in months.  Time for me to renew my referee registration.

Now go back to quibbling over the details.

(yes, I know we have to get back to orange.  March.)


----------



## ITFC Blues

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Like I said on the other post, opening up schools and allowing pe is more important than allowing club sports.   I am not saying that I like it but the rest of the world could care less about club sports.


Glad I stocked up on sports masks a while back!


----------



## watfly

dad4 said:


> You all are missing the point.
> 
> We finally have a set of rules which allows local games.  This hasn’t been true since March.
> 
> Best news we’ve had in months.  Time for me to renew my referee registration.
> 
> Now go back to quibbling over the details.
> 
> (yes, I know we have to get back to orange.  March.)


Look at you Mr. Glass Half Full.  I take back all the buzzkill comments I made previously.  I hope your right about March.  I'm still skeptical.


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> (yes, I know we have to get back to orange.  March.)


So what do folks think this means for soccer going forward (assuming Dad's right and cases counts drop so some counties are in orange by March)?  Do they scratch any sort of season....one of the reasons CalSouth had been reluctant to just throw everything out was because they didn't want to lose State Cup which theoretically could be played over the summer?  Do they try to have a season (knowing some counties like Los Angeles might be in red or might fall back and forth between tiers) or do they just say f--- it...tryouts in the spring and we just wash out the season?  There's a blanket ban on contact sports tournaments so the summer tournament and camp season may not happen (barring a change in the tier system or COVID suddenly disappearing)...does that influence anything?  If kids can't do training camps in state do they go in the summer to other states and does that influence any ability to do anything?


----------



## Kicker4Life

Grace T. said:


> CalSouth should have hired whoever lobbied for the cheerleaders....


And we wonder why all the major clubs just fired CalSouth.....


----------



## Kicker4Life

Grace T. said:


> So what do folks think this means for soccer going forward (assuming Dad's right and cases counts drop so some counties are in orange by March)?  Do they scratch any sort of season....one of the reasons CalSouth had been reluctant to just throw everything out was because they didn't want to lose State Cup which theoretically could be played over the summer?  Do they try to have a season (knowing some counties like Los Angeles might be in red or might fall back and forth between tiers) or do they just say f--- it...tryouts in the spring and we just wash out the season?  There's a blanket ban on contact sports tournaments so the summer tournament and camp season may not happen (barring a change in the tier system or COVID suddenly disappearing)...does that influence anything?


Remember...it’s “REGIONS”, not Counties.


----------



## Grace T.

Kicker4Life said:


> And we wonder why all the major clubs just fired CalSouth.....


Yeah, but there's a county by county measure in the guidance.  Does RealSoCal, for example, pack up and move to San Diego?


----------



## Grace T.

Kicker4Life said:


> Remember...it’s “REGIONS”, not Counties.


No, this guidance is by county tier.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Grace T. said:


> Yeah, but there's a county by county measure in the guidance.  Does RealSoCal, for example, pack up and move to San Diego?


I hope you’re right.  But i don’t know why they would create regions if not holding the countries within to the same standards (despite the lack of supporting science)


----------



## Grace T.

Kicker4Life said:


> I hope you’re right.  But i don’t know why they would create regions if not holding the countries within to the same standards (despite the lack of supporting science)


But that's the point I was making...there's a prohibition, for example, on playing a team from another county (though you can play a team from an adjacent county if they are in the same tier).  You cannot play a team from 2 counties away.  So I don't see how some of the major teams outside the San Diego area make it work any time in the near future for any sort of league play or scrimmages....for example Real SoCal couldn't play teams from San Diego county.  For some leaving CalSouth might not have been the best time.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Grace T. said:


> But that's the point I was making...there's a prohibition, for example, on playing a team from another county (though you can play a team from an adjacent county if they are in the same tier).  You cannot play a team from 2 counties away.  So I don't see how some of the major teams outside the San Diego area make it work any time in the near future for any sort of league play or scrimmages....for example Real SoCal couldn't play teams from San Diego county


Even more fun for those of us in NorCal where there is no other ECNL club in our county and just one club in an adjacent county.


----------



## Soccer Bum 06

Kicker4Life said:


> I hope you’re right.  But i don’t know why they would create regions if not holding the countries within to the same standards (despite the lack of supporting science)


Can’t make sense out of madness!


----------



## Grace T.

Soccerfan2 said:


> Even more fun for those of us in NorCal where there is no other ECNL club in our county and just one club in an adjacent county.


Are the MLS academy teams governed by these rules?....if so LAFC and LA Galaxy academy are so freaking f----ed.  Likely in the red tier longest, can't travel, can't play teams in San Diego.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

dad4 said:


> You all are missing the point.
> 
> We finally have a set of rules which allows local games.  This hasn’t been true since March.
> 
> Best news we’ve had in months.  Time for me to renew my referee registration.
> 
> Now go back to quibbling over the details.
> 
> (yes, I know we have to get back to orange.  March.)


I notice you didn’t put a year with “March”. Orange is 1.0 to 3.9. March 2021 seems optimistic. I’m guessing if people are already ignoring many of the restrictions, it’ll be considerably worse by March. I’d guess we are going to have some low level of infections until we reach herd immunity. Are you confident that will be < 4/100,000? Maybe infections fall off a cliff given our current surge and the help we’ll have with vaccine rollouts. We’ll need them to if we want to play by March. Also, March is still “flu season”. I hope so. Actually, I’m hoping for February.


----------



## Grace T.

Soccerfan2 said:


> Even more fun for those of us in NorCal where there is no other ECNL club in our county and just one club in an adjacent county.


This works to the benefit of OC teams generally (lots of counties surrounding), San Diego and lower level teams.  If this does apply to the MLS academies, they are so f'ed....they for example can't disobey the tournament ban without it having repercussions for the pro league and stadium reopenings (which are much more important to them0.  The higher level team you have, the more painful this is.  AYSO for example could easily organize a core program since they are neighborhood based with relatively few issues.  It gets harder as you move up from Extras.

Also unless COVID suddenly disappears or there is a dramatic change in the tier system I can't see the summer tournament season taking place.


----------



## EOTL

Soccer Bum 06 said:


> Can’t make sense out of madness!


It all makes perfect sense and is very simple.

1. Do what is within your control - including by your own actions and also by encouraging others to do the same - to limit spread.
2. When you don’t, and it doesn’t by March, STFU and self-own that it is still your fault that we’re in this predicament, just like every month that preceded it. 

The only madness here is thinking that whining for a tenth straight month will fix things although whining the first nine months only led to 3,000 people a day dying.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Grace T. said:


> This works to the benefit of OC teams generally (lots of counties surrounding), San Diego and lower level teams.  If this does apply to the MLS academies, they are so f'ed....they for example can't disobey the tournament ban without it having repercussions for the pro league and stadium reopenings (which are much more important to them0.  The higher level team you have, the more painful this is.  AYSO for example could easily organize a core program since they are neighborhood based with relatively few issues.  It gets harder as you move up from Extras.
> 
> Also unless COVID suddenly disappears or there is a dramatic change in the tier system I can't see the summer tournament season taking place.


I hear Reno is nice in the spring


----------



## Messi>CR7

kickingandscreaming said:


> I notice you didn’t put a year with “March”. Orange is 1.0 to 3.9. March 2021 seems optimistic. I’m guessing if people are already ignoring many of the restrictions, it’ll be considerably worse by March. I’d guess we are going to have some low level of infections until we reach herd immunity. Are you confident that will be < 4/100,000? Maybe infections fall off a cliff given our current surge and the help we’ll have with vaccine rollouts. We’ll need them to if we want to play by March. Also, March is still “flu season”. I hope so. Actually, I’m hoping for February.


IIRC Placer and Santa Clara(?) counties managed to get into the orange tier briefly.  Last time any of Socal's counties was in Orange was 2019.


----------



## Grace T.

Messi>CR7 said:


> IIRC Placer and Santa Clara(?) counties managed to get into the orange tier briefly.  Last time any of Socal's counties was in Orange was 2019.


Well here's the other thing we don't know.  The pfizer vaccine IIHC was approved for 16-17 year olds.  The problem is getting it to them.  They are going to be after 65+ and anyone with a severe health concern (e.g. cancer).  But if the 16-18 are vaccinated in spring does it change things?  The vaccine would likely have to be mandatory for that to happen.  If the MLS academies are captured by this guidance, I gotta believe they'll push for this.  The youngers maybe 12 and over get some relief thereafter...none for the youngest any time soon.


----------



## dad4

kickingandscreaming said:


> I notice you didn’t put a year with “March”. Orange is 1.0 to 3.9. March 2021 seems optimistic. I’m guessing if people are already ignoring many of the restrictions, it’ll be considerably worse by March. I’d guess we are going to have some low level of infections until we reach herd immunity. Are you confident that will be < 4/100,000? Maybe infections fall off a cliff given our current surge and the help we’ll have with vaccine rollouts. We’ll need them to if we want to play by March. Also, March is still “flu season”. I hope so. Actually, I’m hoping for February.


My guess is people will be fools through the first week of January.   Death peak on mid Jan.  After that, it looks better.

The vaccine will be 15% done by late Jan.  Any impatient idiots who gave themselves covid for Christmas will be dead or recovered.  

From there, it is a question of how long it takes for case counts to decline.   Late March for the early counties.  Early May for the late ones.  Add a month or two if you reopen your bars and restaurants.

Or, call me wrong in 3 months.


----------



## notintheface

ITFC Blues said:


> I don't see any wiggle room in this from the guidance
> 
> *Teams must not participate in out-of-state tournaments; *several multistate outbreaks have been reported in CA residents and around the nation.


That sound you hear is the cash register of Surf pocketing fees and not having to pay refs or rent fields for cancelled games.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

dad4 said:


> My guess is people will be fools through the first week of January.   Death peak on mid Jan.  After that, it looks better.
> 
> The vaccine will be 15% done by late Jan.  Any impatient idiots who gave themselves covid for Christmas will be dead or recovered.
> 
> From there, it is a question of how long it takes for case counts to decline.   Late March for the early counties.  Early May for the late ones.  Add a month or two if you reopen your bars and restaurants.
> 
> Or, call me wrong in 3 months.


I hope we are both wrong and it's February.

Of course, it's county-by-county, correct? As Grace stated, it's tougher for the top-level teams at the older age groups to find appropriate/varied competition in NorCal with the restrictions. Don't we have to get to yellow 1/100,000 for intercounty/region games? Based on the post by @N00B about a week ago, false-positives can wreak havoc with trying to get down to that level.


----------



## oh canada

notintheface said:


> That sound you hear is the cash register of Surf pocketing fees and not having to pay refs or rent fields for cancelled games.


Surf will have to offer another refund window to those California teams now affected by this new order.  In addition, their San Diego teams can no longer play.  Looks like the tournament just went down to 100 teams from AZ and other states beyond CA.  Will they send another email stating "we're excited to open up the tournament to 350 more teams..."?


----------



## Grace T.

kickingandscreaming said:


> I hope we are both wrong and it's February.
> 
> Of course, it's county-by-county, correct? As Grace stated, it's tougher for the top-level teams at the older age groups to find appropriate/varied competition in NorCal with the restrictions. Don't we have to get to yellow 1/100,000 for intercounty/region games? Based on the post by @N00B about a week ago, false-positives can wreak havoc with trying to get down to that level.


No.  Under the current guidance even the best you can do is just play teams from a neighboring county if they are the same or better tier as you.  Until the guidance is replaced there is no mechanism for you to play anything other than an adjacent county (which is why I was saying the MLS academies are f'ed).  Also there is no sunset for the tournament or travel restrictions, which are indefinite....the entire system would have to be scrapped or we'd have to go to the green for which there is currently no guidance (since California apparently thinks we are never returning to normal).  That's why I was saying I don't think the summer tournament season happens barring a major change.


----------



## Dargle

It only prohibits out-of-state tournaments. If you can travel at all (which appears to be tied to the regional stay-at-home order that is based on ICU capacity, not case counts) then you can travel out-of-state to play individual games not part of a tournament. Clubs in the MLS Next League (but not Galaxy and LAFC) only played scrimmages in AZ against other MLS Next teams or ECNL teams during the fall, not tournaments.  They can actually start league play in spring hosted in AZ, just like ECNL did in AZ and NV during fall.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Grace T. said:


> No.  Under the current guidance even the best you can do is just play teams from a neighboring county if they are the same or better tier as you.  Until the guidance is replaced there is no mechanism for you to play anything other than an adjacent county (which is why I was saying the MLS academies are f'ed).  Also there is no sunset for the tournament or travel restrictions, which are indefinite....the entire system would have to be scrapped or we'd have to go to the green for which there is currently no guidance (since California apparently thinks we are never returning to normal).  That's why I was saying I don't think the summer tournament season happens barring a major change.


So, Reno in the summer, too? Damn, it gets kinda hot there in the summer.


----------



## Grace T.

Grace T. said:


> No.  Under the current guidance even the best you can do is just play teams from a neighboring county if they are the same or better tier as you.  Until the guidance is replaced there is no mechanism for you to play anything other than an adjacent county (which is why I was saying the MLS academies are f'ed).  Also there is no sunset for the tournament or travel restrictions, which are indefinite....the entire system would have to be scrapped or we'd have to go to the green for which there is currently no guidance (since California apparently thinks we are never returning to normal).  That's why I was saying I don't think the summer tournament season happens barring a major change.


Someone tell me I'm wrong here.  For SoCal, let's assume Dad's right and LA County doesn't hit orange until late May-June.  Isn't that the end of the season?  Maybe OC-San Diego get something going for SCDSL but they'll have to leave the teams from other counties high and dry.  I can see Coast organizing a bronze tier, but would it be able to organize anything for higher than bronze if you have to assume you can't leave a county and LA County must be out of it?  Would they even bother?  How do the MLS teams even function if they can't travel? Isn't this it at this point....aren't we basically stuck with scrimmages and invitational try outs in the spring and maybe some informal league play in the summer?  Hasn't the fat lady sung?


----------



## EOTL

notintheface said:


> That sound you hear is the cash register of Surf pocketing fees and not having to pay refs or rent fields for cancelled games.


Cha ching. Covid-19 is easily the best thing that ever happened to Surf.


----------



## Grace T.

Dargle said:


> It only prohibits out-of-state tournaments. If you can travel at all (which appears to be tied to the regional stay-at-home order that is based on ICU capacity, not case counts) then you can travel out-of-state to play individual games not part of a tournament. Clubs in the MLS Next League (but not Galaxy and LAFC) only played scrimmages in AZ against other MLS Next teams or ECNL teams during the fall, not tournaments.  They can actually start league play in spring hosted in AZ, just like ECNL did in AZ and NV during fall.


I think you may have come across a loop hole (you are smarter than they are).  So LAFC and LA Galaxy can play each other (because they are in the same county)  once that county opens up....but they can't play San Jose because San Jose is 2 or more counties away.  But they can go to Arizona to scrimmage a team there if the travel restriction is lifted.  That's funny.  Nobody tell them.  Guess they'll be lots of scrimmage travel in everyone's future.


----------



## Grace T.

Grace T. said:


> I think you may have come across a loop hole (you are smarter than they are).  So LAFC and LA Galaxy can play each other (because they are in the same county)  once that county opens up....but they can't play San Jose because San Jose is 2 or more counties away.  But they can go to Arizona to scrimmage a team there if the travel restriction is lifted.  That's funny.  Nobody tell them.  Guess they'll be lots of scrimmage travel in everyone's future.


p.s. under the guidance the rule is where the team is domiciled.  So 2 California teams cannot just go to Arizona to play each other in league or scrimmage unless they are from the same county or a neighboring county that is in the same or better tier.  The loophole Dargle found it they CAN go apparently (at least from the letter of the guidance) to scrimmage or league play an Arizona team.  They are not allowed to play a California team from a prohibited county (even if such game takes place in Reno or Arizona).


----------



## Dargle

Grace T. said:


> p.s. under the guidance the rule is where the team is domiciled.  So 2 California teams cannot just go to Arizona to play each other in league or scrimmage unless they are from the same county or a neighboring county that is in the same or better tier.  The loophole Dargle found it they CAN go apparently (at least from the letter of the guidance) to scrimmage or league play an Arizona team.  They are not allowed to play a California team from a prohibited county (even if such game takes place in Reno or Arizona).


Right. MLS Next's Southwest Division includes four Arizona teams, so CA teams could play league games against them (the AZ teams just played each other all fall for league play). ECNL could do the same thing against teams based in NV or AZ.  And, of course, both could do cross-play against each other in friendlies, as could ECNL with GA.


----------



## dad4

Grace T. said:


> Someone tell me I'm wrong here.  For SoCal, let's assume Dad's right and LA County doesn't hit orange until late May-June.  Isn't that the end of the season?  Maybe OC-San Diego get something going for SCDSL but they'll have to leave the teams from other counties high and dry.  I can see Coast organizing a bronze tier, but would it be able to organize anything for higher than bronze if you have to assume you can't leave a county and LA County must be out of it?  Would they even bother?  How do the MLS teams even function if they can't travel? Isn't this it at this point....aren't we basically stuck with scrimmages and invitational try outs in the spring and maybe some informal league play in the summer?  Hasn't the fat lady sung?


Count the number of ECNL and GA teams from OC or a county bordering OC.

There are plenty of good teams you could play.   

Now, if ECNL wants to keep up their stupid turf war with GA teams, the options get more limited.  But that is not really the state’s fault, is it?


----------



## ITFC Blues

Dargle said:


> Right. MLS Next's Southwest Division includes four Arizona teams, so CA teams could play league games against them (the AZ teams just played each other all fall for league play). ECNL could do the same thing against teams based in NV or AZ.  And, of course, both could do cross-play against each other in friendlies, as could ECNL with GA.


Alternatively one can interpret this to be a prohibition against playing any out of state teams even if it is in another state since they don't meet either of the conditions listed below.  Let's see if they update the guidance to make it a bit more clear.  

Inter-team competitions, meets, races, or similar events are authorized *only if (a) both teams are located in the same county* and the sport is authorized in the Table below; or *(b) teams are located in immediately bordering counties* and the sport is authorized in both counties in the Table below.


----------



## SBFDad

soccer4us said:


> Outdoor and Indoor Youth and Recreational Adult Sports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cdph.ca.gov


Interesting language in the order. I think there is intent when using the words “should” and “must”. I read the mask guidance as recommended for players during games (should), but not mandatory (must). The logic plays throughout the order in multiple sections.

“Participants in youth and adults sports should wear face coverings when participating in the activity...and face coverings must be worn when not participating in the activity.”


----------



## Grace T.

SBFDad said:


> Interesting language in the order. I think there is intent when using the words “should” and “must”. I read the mask guidance as recommended for players during games (should), but not mandatory (must).
> 
> “Participants in youth and adults sports should wear face coverings when participating in the activity...and face coverings must be worn when not participating in the activity.”


It has to be or water polo is impossible at any stage.  But the local sports orgs will probably go from there....they might take it further and make it mandatory to protect themselves from accusations (legal or otherwise) they are avoiding taking recommended steps.


----------



## GT45

ITFC Blues said:


> I don't see any wiggle room in this from the guidance
> 
> *Teams must not participate in out-of-state tournaments; *several multistate outbreaks have been reported in CA residents and around the nation.
> It is called 'guidance'. It is not law.


----------



## GT45

Just curious if anyone has noticed a difference after the Regional Stay at home order was announced? I have seen outdoor dining in full swing at several restaurants all week. The only change I have noticed is Starbucks blocked off outdoor seating this week. Otherwise I see no change. I know hair salons are likely paying the price, but other entities seem to be ignoring it.


----------



## dad4

GT45 said:


> Just curious if anyone has noticed a difference after the Regional Stay at home order was announced? I have seen outdoor dining in full swing at several restaurants all week. The only change I have noticed is Starbucks blocked off outdoor seating this week. Otherwise I see no change. I know hair salons are likely paying the price, but other entities seem to be ignoring it.


Santa Clara is different.  Cities are following the county health dept.  Restaurants are closed, except for takeout and delivery.  In general, it’s quiet.


----------



## happy9

Dargle said:


> Right. MLS Next's Southwest Division includes four Arizona teams, so CA teams could play league games against them (the AZ teams just played each other all fall for league play). ECNL could do the same thing against teams based in NV or AZ.  And, of course, both could do cross-play against each other in friendlies, as could ECNL with GA.


Which is a carry over of what's been happening since AUG, except we haven't seen MLS academies in AZ.  It's unfortunate and even frustrating from the outside looking in seeing the effort required to get in a game, much less a practice for CA players.  You would think there are models all over the country that CA could cherry pick to allow youth sports to thrive regionally.


----------



## MacDre

Grace T. said:


> p.s. under the guidance the rule is where the team is domiciled.  So 2 California teams cannot just go to Arizona to play each other in league or scrimmage unless they are from the same county or a neighboring county that is in the same or better tier.  The loophole Dargle found it they CAN go apparently (at least from the letter of the guidance) to scrimmage or league play an Arizona team.  They are not allowed to play a California team from a prohibited county (even if such game takes place in Reno or Arizona).


Come on Grace, the cannons of legislative construction is basic 1L stuff.  To hell with the plain meaning of the order written under duress during a pandemic, what is the legislative intent?


----------



## EOTL

MacDre said:


> Come on Grace, the cannons of legislative construction is basic 1L stuff.  To hell with the plain meaning of the order written under duress during a pandemic, what is the legislative intent?


Her goal is to game the system to fit her personal desires, not to do the right thing. The American Way.


----------



## Grace T.

MacDre said:


> Come on Grace, the cannons of legislative construction is basic 1L stuff.  To hell with the plain meaning of the order written under duress during a pandemic, what is the legislative intent?


oh I agree the intent isn’t to allow that loop and it is a...creative read of the order.  But for those willing to take the risk it might be more of the ask forgiveness rather than permission tactic. In any case both waterpolo (for the mask thing) and volleyball (because of the dodgeball thing) are already lobbying the order. The governor revised the playground order so they are hoping to get similar tweaks. Our leadership seems to be asleep at the wheel if cheer got better treatment and we are the same as football. Also today the tier system lawsuit goes to challenge...don’t know anything about the basis of the lawsuit but the order now firmly ties sports to the tier system.


----------



## TOSDCI

EOTL said:


> Because virtually every state in the country has much higher infection and mortality rates than CA. Because all the contacts you will have at the airport and all the other places you go significantly increases the risk that you will bring it to CA. Because taking steps to discourage mass travel significantly reduces the number of interactions people have which, in turn, substantially slows down the rate of transmission. Because if you can’t travel, the 1000 people you would have had some close contact with at the airport and during your visit, and the 1000 they had, and the 1000 they had, is now zero. You only have your trip to the grocery store and the five people you ran into there that you can potentially kill.


Wow!  You really are a glass half empty kinda guy!  So if I go to El Centro, I don't have to quarantine, but if I go to Yuma, I do?  Just want to make sure I understand the rules.  And you may want to check your metrics....infection rate in LA is extremely high despite having the most restrictions throughout the entire pandemic.


----------



## socalkdg

46n2 said:


> Id personally be more worried about you (if you were my co worker) going to a walmart or christmas shopping at costco than going out of state to watch your kid play soccer outside at a fucking park?
> I was at walmart just 2 days ago and I was blown away at the amount of people inside, over a thousand for sure if there is a super spreader--- its the stores where people touch stuff.


Agree.   It is 15X safer to be at that park than to be inside Walmart.   Either shut everyone down inside their homes for two straight weeks, or recommend that people spend time outdoors, not indoors at stores.









						What A Summer Of COVID-19 Taught Scientists About Indoor vs. Outdoor Transmission
					

Here we are, almost eight months into this pandemic, and it’s like you can’t even invite more than 150 people to sit next to each other unmasked in your rose ga…




					fivethirtyeight.com


----------



## crush

socalkdg said:


> Agree.   It is 15X safer to be at that park than to be inside walmart.   Either shut everyone down inside their homes,   or reccomend that people spend time outdoors, not indoors at stores.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What A Summer Of COVID-19 Taught Scientists About Indoor vs. Outdoor Transmission
> 
> 
> Here we are, almost eight months into this pandemic, and it’s like you can’t even invite more than 150 people to sit next to each other unmasked in your rose ga…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fivethirtyeight.com


All the big box companies and big cooperate folks are open for biz.  Small biz owners are SOL.  Let's see how these folks handle things Jan 5th, 2021. I'm sure T will have a little meet up in the Oval and get their game plan for the next four years.  So nice of these kind folks WHO really care about the avg Joe American. The Blue team was so mad last election.  Now the Red team get's to have pay back for four years.  Mitch is all in and is ready to go.  Oh joy, this will get crazy.  The left side just yells and screams at people and calls anyone they want a racist.  The right side has me more concerned because their tough SOBs, have lot's of guns and ammo and lost everything already.  The left only lost power four years ago ((no business or job)) and they want it all back, like right now and by any means necessary.  Here we go folks, this is going to get really really nasty.  Help God.  Help Seal Team 6. Help us all!!!!


----------



## EOTL

TOSDCI said:


> Wow!  You really are a glass half empty kinda guy!  So if I go to El Centro, I don't have to quarantine, but if I go to Yuma, I do?  Just want to make sure I understand the rules.  And you may want to check your metrics....infection rate in LA is extremely high despite having the most restrictions throughout the entire pandemic.


Oh I understand the facts, the problem is people lime you don’t care about the facts. LA is the most densely populated region in the US over a span greater than 9 miles.  Of course it has higher infection rates than  many places, but still lower death rates than most  places. LA must have more severe restrictions in order to keep more people alive. 

Keep denying reality. Travel exacerbates spread. Substantial travel by a substantial number of people exacerbates spread substantially, which increases deaths substantially.  That is fact. It doesn’t matter whether denialist daddy is traveling to AZ for kiddie soccer or Las Vegas to gamble.  Every rule that discourages or reduces travel right now saves lives. And, yes, a rule that allows travel to El Centro but not Yuma makes perfect sense. No one wants to go to El Centro, but many people want to go to AZ to play stupid kiddie soccer games. No one goes through high risk crowded airports to fly to El Centro, but many do to AZ. Making it more difficult to go to AZ means most people go to neither place.


----------



## EOTL

socalkdg said:


> Agree.   It is 15X safer to be at that park than to be inside Walmart.   Either shut everyone down inside their homes for two straight weeks, or recommend that people spend time outdoors, not indoors at stores.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What A Summer Of COVID-19 Taught Scientists About Indoor vs. Outdoor Transmission
> 
> 
> Here we are, almost eight months into this pandemic, and it’s like you can’t even invite more than 150 people to sit next to each other unmasked in your rose ga…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fivethirtyeight.com


People must shop. Kiddie soccer is a luxury. A company like Wal-mart can (and must) implement practices that reduce spread, while stupid daddy denialists cannot be contained at their kiddies’ soccer games. Parks do not have the resources to enforce social distancing. Stop whining Karen. Living vicariously through your child is not important compared to being able to put food on the table. Seriously, what you are saying idiotic. The American Way.


----------



## socalkdg

Guess my kid is running track at school.   They put girls Lacrosse and boys lacrosse in different categories?  Do they have different rules?  I thought Lacrosse was more physical than soccer?   Indoor basketball is never happening.   How football and soccer can be put in the same category is absurd. Blocking and tackling.  Sheesh.


----------



## dad4

socalkdg said:


> Agree.   It is 15X safer to be at that park than to be inside Walmart.   Either shut everyone down inside their homes for two straight weeks, or recommend that people spend time outdoors, not indoors at stores.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What A Summer Of COVID-19 Taught Scientists About Indoor vs. Outdoor Transmission
> 
> 
> Here we are, almost eight months into this pandemic, and it’s like you can’t even invite more than 150 people to sit next to each other unmasked in your rose ga…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fivethirtyeight.com


No one, other than merchants, is recommending you go to a store.  And they’ve been recommending outdoor activity for months now.

So, yes.  Skip the store and go to a park.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

socalkdg said:


> Guess my kid is running track at school.   They put girls Lacrosse and boys lacrosse in different categories?  Do they have different rules?  I thought Lacrosse was more physical than soccer?   Indoor basketball is never happening.   How football and soccer can be put in the same category is absurd. Blocking and tackling.  Sheesh.


I have heard girls lacrosse is no "body checking". Football? Everything you said, huddles and the lineman line up across from each other play after play is considerably different from soccer.


----------



## crush

socalkdg said:


> Guess my kid is running track at school.   They put girls Lacrosse and boys lacrosse in different categories?  Do they have different rules?  I thought Lacrosse was more physical than soccer?   Indoor basketball is never happening.   How football and soccer can be put in the same category is absurd. Blocking and tackling.  Sheesh.


None of these health folks played sports.  They have no clue what their doing.  Color coded BS!!!!  These are not laws btw but anyone who get;s their money from the power players have to STFU!!!!


----------



## EOTL

socalkdg said:


> Agree.   It is 15X safer to be at that park than to be inside Walmart.   Either shut everyone down inside their homes for two straight weeks, or recommend that people spend time outdoors, not indoors at stores.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What A Summer Of COVID-19 Taught Scientists About Indoor vs. Outdoor Transmission
> 
> 
> Here we are, almost eight months into this pandemic, and it’s like you can’t even invite more than 150 people to sit next to each other unmasked in your rose ga…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fivethirtyeight.com


Y’all think soccer is perfectly fine and there is no spread. 

Private schools say it isn’t spread at schools. https://www.wuwm.com/post/private-schools-take-legal-action-against-racine-health-order-closing-schools#stream/0

Retailers don’t think it is spread in stores. https://therealdeal.com/la/2020/11/19/skeptical-retail-lobby-wants-data-to-justify-covid-restrictions/

It isn’t spread on planes according to airlines. 








						Experts Agree – Airline Cleaning and Safety Measures Combat the Spread of COVID-19
					

For months, American Airlines has cared for customers through the airline’s Clean Commitment, a multi-faceted approach including face covering requirements, enhanced cleaning and sanitizing measures and partnerships with leading health and safety institutions for guidance on health matters...




					news.aa.com
				




People here have said it isn’t spread at Sturgis motorcycle rallies, political rallies in Omaha, casinos, restaurants. bars, church, etc. 

Covid-19 is literally not spread anywhere besides between rest home beds if you believe everyone who doesn’t want it to be spread  at the places
that are important to them. Just give it up. Admit that soccer tournaments like Surf Cup contribute to spread but you don’t care, and you don’t care how many people need to die for you to live vicariously through your child.


----------



## Desert Hound

dad4 said:


> No one, other than merchants, is recommending you go to a store.  And they’ve been recommending outdoor activity for months now.
> 
> So, yes.  Skip the store and go to a park.


Retails and bars/restaurants, travel are not main drivers of the plague. Nor are gyms, sports, churches, etc. 

Follow the science.


----------



## socalkdg

Desert Hound said:


> Retails and bars/restaurants, travel are not main drivers of the plague. Nor are gyms, sports, churches, etc.
> 
> Follow the science.
> 
> View attachment 9675


Where did you find that?


----------



## crush

Don't lie to little girls!!!!!

@EOTL I have Q for you.  Why are you so mean to kids and their parents?  Why you here?  Honestly, no kids that play the game but here 24/7? Where is Espola when you need him?  You made fun of my dd and have said on numerous times how she is no good now.  Just so you know, she is on here.  100% true bro.  She can write very well so get ready for her.  I want you two to have an open discussion as well.  She's a big girl and can handle her own.  I know she is appalled at the things you say.  I must admit, I too have said things that she's appalled by so were both typical males. You have given her great motivation sir and some others on here as well.  Plus, you blame me for taking all the top 04' Blues players to Surf so I could win the Natty, which was a big fat lie and hurt my reputation.  I can also go back and read all your BS!!!!  My goat is motivated like non other. Running hills at 9am.  She wont forget it, like ever the things you said about her.  She is getting ready to showcase and prove you wrong brother. Telling her she's all washed up and a "has been" and not the player she was when she was 11, 12 and 13 is so sic.  Shame on you mean little man. Plus, mean man EOTL is also mean to our sweet Gracie.  Love you Grace   You can say sorry right now to her and my dd.  Karma????  We both have forgiven you.  Please, do the right thing and treat all the young girls right and all woman.  Parents were sold BS and were lied to so many times and you just laugh at us Coach _______________________________________.


----------



## Willie

EOTL said:


> Y’all think soccer is perfectly fine and there is no spread.
> 
> Private schools say it isn’t spread at schools. https://www.wuwm.com/post/private-schools-take-legal-action-against-racine-health-order-closing-schools#stream/0
> 
> Retailers don’t think it is spread in stores. https://therealdeal.com/la/2020/11/19/skeptical-retail-lobby-wants-data-to-justify-covid-restrictions/
> 
> It isn’t spread on planes according to airlines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Experts Agree – Airline Cleaning and Safety Measures Combat the Spread of COVID-19
> 
> 
> For months, American Airlines has cared for customers through the airline’s Clean Commitment, a multi-faceted approach including face covering requirements, enhanced cleaning and sanitizing measures and partnerships with leading health and safety institutions for guidance on health matters...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> news.aa.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People here have said it isn’t spread at Sturgis motorcycle rallies, political rallies in Omaha, casinos, restaurants. bars, church, etc.
> 
> Covid-19 is literally not spread anywhere besides between rest home beds if you believe everyone who doesn’t want it to be spread  at the places
> that are important to them. Just give it up. Admit that soccer tournaments like Surf Cup contribute to spread but you don’t care, and you don’t care how many people need to die for you to live vicariously through your child.


Sometimes the herd needs thinning.


----------



## Desert Hound

socalkdg said:


> Where did you find that?


NY has been tracing where people get infections from. That was from a Cuomo conference a day or so ago.


----------



## Desert Hound

socalkdg said:


> Where did you find that?


Here is one of the news stories that links to it. At the bottom you find the chart provided by the state of NY and Cuomo. 









						NY data lists restaurants as low coronavirus risk. Owners ask: Then why is Cuomo killing us?
					

Cuomo chart shows dining out linked to 1.4% of recent cases.




					www.syracuse.com


----------



## watfly

dad4 said:


> Santa Clara is different.  Cities are following the county health dept.  Restaurants are closed, except for takeout and delivery.  In general, it’s quiet.


SD restaurants that I've seen are following the no outdoor dining rule.  One clever restaurant that has a parking lot has turned their service into a car hop...brilliant, each course comes out fresh and no soggy tacos like what you get with normal takeout.  If they have the space I encourage all restaurants to follow the Sonic model.  Meanwhile, the malls in SD are slammed.

To Dad4 's point about allowing games for the first time in the guidance, yes, they've given us a carrot its just on the end of a mile long stick.  Newsom is a political genius because now it makes it seem like the ball is in our court, so if we don't end up playing any games, he can claim its our fault as citizens for not following the rules.  When in fact none of his restrictions have worked to stop the virus, because you can't effectively stop a virus and you can't get citizens to follow obviously arbitrary restrictions.

So what was most everyone's first response to the new guidance (other than Newsom is a complete douche)?  The first response was what are the workarounds, loopholes and inconsistencies?  This is what happens with sane people that are tired of arbitrary and non-science based rules.  That's what happens when you have someone that is more interested in dictating than leading.  Yes, I went political.


----------



## dad4

Desert Hound said:


> Retails and bars/restaurants, travel are not main drivers of the plague. Nor are gyms, sports, churches, etc.
> 
> Follow the science.
> 
> View attachment 9675


No one has managed to trace 74% of cases.   Your slide should have a big “we do not know” category right at the top.  

Of course, it’s hard to claim that anything is proven safe when the biggest slice on your pie chart says “We do not know”.   

Don’t let that stop you from selling overpriced margaritas with a case of corona on the side.


----------



## crush

92,000 views in 14 days is impressive Oh Canada.  Is this a record?  Gun guy thread was huge.  I think Dom should give out prizes for "most views" and "Most Relevant thread" and "Mr Irrelevant Thread" and things like that.  Dom?


----------



## MSK357

dad4 said:


> No one has managed to trace 74% of cases.   Your slide should have a big “we do not know” category right at the top.
> 
> Of course, it’s hard to claim that anything is proven safe when the biggest slice on your pie chart says “We do not know”.
> 
> Don’t let that stop you from selling overpriced margaritas with a case of corona on the side.


So we are locking down, destroying businesses, ruining the education and mental health of our future generations because "we do not know".  Not based on science, but because our leaders told to be be scared of something they dont know anything about and force rules that they themselves do not follow. coo coo.


----------



## MacDre

MSK357 said:


> So we are locking down, destroying businesses, ruining the education and mental health of our future generations because "we do not know".


You forgot to add saving lives.


----------



## crush

watfly said:


> SD restaurants that I've seen are following the no outdoor dining rule.  One clever restaurant that has a parking lot has turned their service into a car hop...brilliant, each course comes out fresh and no soggy tacos like what you get with normal takeout.  If they have the space I encourage all restaurants to follow the Sonic model.  Meanwhile, the malls in SD are slammed.


My family and I were starving the other day.  We pulled up to a killer taco place.  I got out and ordered for the family with my mask on.  We then sat in our car and had dinner.  I got home and put my dog Oreo inside my car to clean up the mess.  My wife turns the big 50 on Friday.  SOL for a nice dinner and party with all her family & friends.  We had all these plans and now she can;t have her 50 in style.  Oh well.  We told everyone to go to our gofund me page and celebrate with us over there   So were heading down to Encinitas on Friday and pick up her chow at one of those organic places for me and wifey.  Eats or something like that.  The kids will get their order to go at TGIF.  After we get all of our chow to go, we will go sit on da beach and eat our dinner and wish my Queen Bee a happy 50th.  Her bday wish is for both of us to find a job in California sometime next year and not have to get a vaccine.


----------



## whatithink

Desert Hound said:


> Retails and bars/restaurants, travel are not main drivers of the plague. Nor are gyms, sports, churches, etc.
> 
> Follow the science.
> 
> View attachment 9675


It strikes me that its self evident that if you get lots of people gathered together in a social setting - guard is down - and if one of them arrives with the virus, then it is likely to spread.

So where did that one person arrive from that was the *actual source*. Could that be one of the groupings above outside of the super spreader? Maybe if we had an actual comprehensive track & trace system we would know that.

The virus originated in Wuhan. It didn't then just materialize all over the world. People spread it, by travelling from there and then going to various businesses and participating in activities etc. and so on. The earliest reference I've seen to its origin point is November 2019, the world was shut down in March 2020. 

I'm grateful that my kids can still play soccer. I do think the sports restrictions in CA are too much, but the converse of course is that CA *deaths *are proportionately much lower than AZ, 21K vs 7.3K for a population of roughly 5 times as many. So maybe CA has "saved" 14K lives by being more restrictive (relative to AZ).

On a broader front, it is fascinating to me how everyone has become experts armed with their own facts. Many times I see people dispute prior testimony of actual experts based on current facts. They rarely acknowledge that those experts state opinion based on what is or was known at that point - *and they say this, they take pains to say this*. Its why we have scientific theories, so named theories as scientists know that they are true based on the facts as they are currently known, but that they could change as new knowledge is attained and therefore new facts become evident.

It's maybe part of the "instant" culture we exist in, something I see in my kids all the time. Everything is a web search away, but many lack the understanding that the first result isn't necessarily the best result (or even true). 

Fortunately vaccines are here and starting to get distributed. Normalcy in time for next summer. I'm looking forward to a short drive to SoCal to laze on the beach, eat out and maybe even get in some soccer ... but truth be told, my kids have played in multiple Surf Cups and the attraction has never been the soccer, its San Diego in July/Aug after 50-60 days of 100+ AZ. Yeah, sign me up for that.


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> You forgot to add saving lives.


I'm not a math person Dre but I do hear death is down overall from last year


----------



## Desert Hound

dad4 said:


> No one has managed to trace 74% of cases. Your slide should have a big “we do not know” category right at the top.


Funny how every time you are proven wrong you claim the people don't know or got it wrong. 

So now you don't trust the NY Health Department experts?


----------



## crush

Desert Hound said:


> Funny how every time you are proven wrong you claim the people don't know or got it wrong.
> 
> So now you don't trust the NY Health Department experts?


It's called an agenda.  When you have set agenda, you move goal post, pick business you like and dont like to stay in business, change the rules during the game, get a waiver if needed so kid can play GDA and HS Soccer and just do whatever it takes to win and get kid in the game.  Add some math and colors and it is what it is.


----------



## EOTL

watfly said:


> SD restaurants that I've seen are following the no outdoor dining rule.  One clever restaurant that has a parking lot has turned their service into a car hop...brilliant, each course comes out fresh and no soggy tacos like what you get with normal takeout.  If they have the space I encourage all restaurants to follow the Sonic model.  Meanwhile, the malls in SD are slammed.
> 
> To Dad4 's point about allowing games for the first time in the guidance, yes, they've given us a carrot its just on the end of a mile long stick.  Newsom is a political genius because now it makes it seem like the ball is in our court, so if we don't end up playing any games, he can claim its our fault as citizens for not following the rules.  When in fact none of his restrictions have worked to stop the virus, because you can't effectively stop a virus and you can't get citizens to follow obviously arbitrary restrictions.
> 
> So what was most everyone's first response to the new guidance (other than Newsom is a complete douche)?  The first response was what are the workarounds, loopholes and inconsistencies?  This is what happens with sane people that are tired of arbitrary and non-science based rules.  That's what happens when you have someone that is more interested in dictating than leading.  Yes, I went political.


The ball was always in your court.  You had all the time in the world to do what was under your control to limit spread - including urging others to do the same. But what did you actually do? You whined about and and fought over even the smallest inconveniences in your life for 10 months.


----------



## EOTL

crush said:


> I'm not a math person Dre but I do hear death is down overall from last year


Yes, you are not a math person. Or a facts person. So now you think Covid-19 SAVES lives, eh? Hey idiot. There are more than 300,000 excess deaths beyond the upper bound (i.e. worst case scenario absent a pandemic or nuke) year to date.


----------



## MSK357

MacDre said:


> You forgot to add saving lives.


No, i would say killing lives if you are newsom and cuomo who put covid positive patients in nursing homes when we did know that the elderly had the lowest chance to beat the virus.


----------



## crush

EOTL said:


> Yes, you are not a math person. Or a facts person. So now you think Covid-19 SAVES lives, eh? Hey idiot. There are more than 300,000 excess deaths beyond the upper bound (i.e. worst case scenario absent a pandemic or nuke) year to date.


I never said Rona "saved lives."  Stop putting words into my mouth.  All I asked was if death last year was more then this year, overall.  Death is death too, dont forget that.   Staying in your house saved lives dummy....lol!  Stop being silly and play honest.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

EOTL said:


> Yes, you are not a math person. Or a facts person. So now you think Covid-19 SAVES lives, eh? Hey idiot. There are more than 300,000 excess deaths beyond the upper bound (i.e. worst case scenario absent a pandemic or nuke) year to date.


EOTL, the only ahole in this site is you.  Stfu and stop insulting eveyone that disagrees with you.  Are you like 16  years old or something.   We are all trying to have a healthy conversation and your insults are more than annoying.   At first I thought I somehow insulted you a few days back but now I see that you insult everyone that disagrees with you. 

GTFO of here with your comments.


----------



## dad4

MSK357 said:


> So we are locking down, destroying businesses, ruining the education and mental health of our future generations because "we do not know".  Not based on science, but because our leaders told to be be scared of something they dont know anything about and force rules that they themselves do not follow. coo coo.


We do know that indoor dining spreads covid.  We just can’t consistently contact trace through the restaurants.  But we can ask people whether they eat out at restaurants, look at their test results, and make a very strong statistical argument that the bars and restaurants are killing people.  CDC has done that, and it is considered settled science by now.  

If you want to give yourself covid by going to a lot of restaurants, casinos, and bars, go ahead.  Do it quick.  I want the numbers to go down in February so my kid can play sports.


----------



## EOTL

MSK357 said:


> So we are locking down, destroying businesses, ruining the education and mental health of our future generations because "we do not know".  Not based on science, but because our leaders told to be be scared of something they dont know anything about and force rules that they themselves do not follow. coo coo.


300,000 people are dead and another 3,000 plus every day. Not 14 like you claim.  People aren’t dying odd heartburn and other “comorbidities” at catastrophic numbers as you claim.

Suck it up buttercup. It’s no wonder so many kids are having a hard time. There are a lot of parents like you out there who would prefer to whine and wallow in self pity instead of finding ways to keep you children moving forward. I can’t imagine having to live in a house with a dad who spends all his time complaining about how everything is someone else’s fault. Woe is you.


----------



## crush

SoccerFan4Life said:


> EOTL, the only ahole in this site is you.  Stfu and stop insulting eveyone that disagrees with you.  Are you like 16  years old or something.   We are all trying to have a healthy conversation and your insults are more than annoying.   At first I thought I somehow insulted you a few days back but now I see that you insult everyone that disagrees with you.
> 
> GTFO of here with your comments.


Coach_________________________________-has nothing else to do.  Dad 4 cant be a teacher because he should be teaching his class instead of trying to teach us his BS math class.  Math teacher with colors is big problem.  These guys are all the same.


----------



## MSK357

dad4 said:


> We do know that indoor dining spreads covid.  We just can’t consistently contact trace through the restaurants.  But we can ask people whether they eat out at restaurants, look at their test results, and make a very strong statistical argument that the bars and restaurants are killing people.  CDC has done that, and it is considered settled science by now.
> 
> If you want to give yourself covid by going to a lot of restaurants, casinos, and bars, go ahead.  Do it quick.  I want the numbers to go down in February so my kid can play sports.


i glanced the stats that were talked about. I believe it said a little over 1% were from restaurants.  Am I wrong?


----------



## EOTL

SoccerFan4Life said:


> EOTL, the only ahole in this site is you.  Stfu and stop insulting eveyone that disagrees with you.  Are you like 16  years old or something.   We are all trying to have a healthy conversation and your insults are more than annoying.   At first I thought I somehow insulted you a few days back but now I see that you insult everyone that disagrees with you.
> 
> GTFO of here with your comments.


No. If someone is going to make the ridiculously stupid claim that fewer people are dying this year, they will get the lack of respect they deserve. Alternative “facts” are lies regardless of how much you want them to be true to fit a narrative.  If that’s what you are looking for, you know where Parler is.

This is supposed to be a thread about Surf Cup, yet someone is claiming that Covid-19 is saving lives? And you’re telling me I’m the problem?


----------



## crush




----------



## dad4

MSK357 said:


> i glanced the stats that were talked about. I believe it said a little over 1% were from restaurants.  Am I wrong?


Yes.  You are wrong.  

Hound is just filtering through charts until he finds one he likes.  If he had picked Louisiana, it would look like this:
Bars and restaurants are #2 and #3 for causing outbreaks.

(This is why you listen to actual experts instead of searching the web for a graph that suits your purpose.)


----------



## MSK357

EOTL said:


> 300,000 people are dead and another 3,000 plus every day. Not 14 like you claim.  People aren’t dying odd heartburn and other “comorbidities” at catastrophic numbers as you claim.
> 
> Suck it up buttercup. It’s no wonder so many kids are having a hard time. There are a lot of parents like you out there who would prefer to whine and wallow in self pity instead of finding ways to keep you children moving forward. I can’t imagine having to live in a house with a dad who spends all his time complaining about how everything is someone else’s fault. Woe is you.


How does it feel to be the idiot of the forum who nobody likes? You find pleasure in that dont you?  your claim of millions in california dying is way off.  you disregard the fact that cuomo and newsom as well as many other democrat governors put covid patients in nursing homes that killed large portions of the elderly who are the most at risk.  when did i claim 14?  when did i whine?  maybe having to read your ignorant posts.  my kids are thriving.  plenty of scrimmages and tournaments that we went to.  They are improving daily. On track to skip a grade of math.  Something you seem to have problems with as far as statistics.  This virus is low risk to my kids and young parents like me.  you can hide under a rock if you'd like.  I'll be doing what I want, guilt free.  Just wear your mask EOTL, you'll be fine. lol.


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> We do know that indoor dining spreads covid.  We just can’t consistently contact trace through the restaurants.  But we can ask people whether they eat out at restaurants, look at their test results, and make a very strong statistical argument that the bars and restaurants are killing people.


a. yes we know indoor dining spreads COVID.  That's pretty settled now.
b. the question though is how much and whether its worth it to shut down.  We know that planes also spread it but the amount is a hotly debated issue right now and they haven't grounded the fleets.
c. you, being the big math guy here, know that correlation doesn't mean causation.  People who eat at restaurants are also likely to be out and about in the community and therefore more likely to have more contacts that lead to their getting ill.  People who are locked in the basement aren't going to indoor, let alone outdoor, dining.


----------



## MacDre

MSK357 said:


> No, i would say killing lives if you are newsom and cuomo who put covid positive patients in nursing homes when we did know that the elderly had the lowest chance to beat the virus.


No ones perfect.  Everyone makes mistakes.  Is your “standard” perfection?  What was their intent?


----------



## watfly

EOTL said:


> The ball was always in your court.  You had all the time in the world to do what was under your control to limit spread - including urging others to do the same. But what did you actually do? You whined about and and fought over even the smallest inconveniences in your life for 10 months.


Thank you.  I appreciate that you think I have the power to change people's behavior.  I've only encouraged people to make choices based on the evidence and what's best for their family.  Cool if its entirely different from my choices.  I take full accountability for my choices.  I do appreciate creative solutions and workarounds of businesses keeping their doors open.

You (and a few other emotional science deniers) seem to be only able to make an argument by mischaracterizing the arguments of your opponent, or claiming falsehoods that we've spread the virus.  You seem to be the only one whining and insulting based upon other peoples choices.   I've never fought the smallest inconveniences and while I've complained (or whined in your parlance) about the prohibition on youth sports, its because this is a soccer forum.  Not having youth sports is stupid but its nothing more than an annoying situation, we've found plenty of activities to keep us busy.  When it comes to in-person education that's entirely different.  I will complain, bitch, whine, write letters to the district until schools are reopened.  If you consider the lack of in-person education "the smallest inconvenience" then you truly are just following a narrative without any consideration for the facts.  I know its tough being a Newsom apologist, even tougher being a Coumo apologist.  I don't envy your responsibility to defend them.


----------



## Grace T.

whatithink said:


> I Normalcy in time for next summer. I'm looking forward to a short drive to SoCal to laze on the beach, eat out and maybe even get in some soccer ... but truth be told, my kids have played in multiple Surf Cups and the attraction has never been the soccer, its San Diego in July/Aug after 50-60 days of 100+ AZ. Yeah, sign me up for that.


No way that happens if the California standards remain in place.  They'll be low levels of transmission still for the foreseeable future unless they do a massive and very sweeping vaccine mandate (remember they aren't even planning to catch kids 0-12 until late summer/early fall, and if they try and do a mandate we have other problems).  A return to normalcy only happens if people demand a return to normal after the vaccine is widely deployed and force the government's hand.  Otherwise, if these standards remain in place, tournaments likely aren't happening this summer, league play will be restricted in the fall, and Disneyland is probably at restricted capacity and with mask mandates.  Remember, in California, there is no green tier.


----------



## MSK357

dad4 said:


> Yes.  You are wrong.
> 
> Hound is just filtering through charts until he finds one he likes.  If he had picked Louisiana, it would look like this:
> Bars and restaurants are #2 and #3 for causing outbreaks.
> 
> (This is why you listen to actual experts instead of searching the web for a graph that suits your purpose.)
> 
> View attachment 9681


THis is what i saw

"Nearly 75 percent of confirmed coronavirus transmissions happen inside households or during social gatherings, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said today. "

 I guess you disagree with these numbers. If you want to talk about what an idiot Democrat Gov Andrew Cuomo is we can both agree.


----------



## EOTL

MSK357 said:


> How does it feel to be the idiot of the forum who nobody likes? You find pleasure in that dont you?  your claim of millions in california dying is way off.  you disregard the fact that cuomo and newsom as well as many other democrat governors put covid patients in nursing homes that killed large portions of the elderly who are the most at risk.  when did i claim 14?  when did i whine?  maybe having to read your ignorant posts.  my kids are thriving.  plenty of scrimmages and tournaments that we went to.  They are improving daily. On track to skip a grade of math.  Something you seem to have problems with as far as statistics.  This virus is low risk to my kids and young parents like me.  you can hide under a rock if you'd like.  I'll be doing what I want, guilt free.  Just wear your mask EOTL, you'll be fine. lol.


I think I made it clear that I did not come here to be liked. I came here to give a**holes like you what you deserve. I know it’s no fun that you and your buddies don’t get to be the only patronizing bullies here and lie at will without any pushback. I know you thought it was great when everyone you treated like s**t played nice and didn’t confront you in response. Too bad.


----------



## MrCruett

MacDre said:


> No ones perfect.  Everyone makes mistakes.  Is your “standard” perfection?  What was their intent?


If only more of us could be this chill.


----------



## MSK357

MacDre said:


> No ones perfect.  Everyone makes mistakes.  Is your “standard” perfection?  What was their intent?


MacDre, we knew from the beginning that elderly sick people were the highest risk.  Lets not pretend we didnt know that.  Common sense would be not to put contagious COVID positive patients in a facility with the people most at risk.  Thats a big enough mistake that people should be fired over.  The standard should be lets not purposely put the most at risk people together with people we know have the virus.


----------



## EOTL

MSK357 said:


> No, i would say killing lives if you are newsom and cuomo who put covid positive patients in nursing homes when we did know that the elderly had the lowest chance to beat the virus.


CA has the lowest mortality rate of any state with any degree of population density, yet now you’re saying he is killing people?

How are you going to pivot when, in the next few weeks, states that did exactly what you wanted (nothing) start having higher overall death rates than NY?  What will be your excuse then?


----------



## watfly

MSK357 said:


> THis is what i saw
> 
> "Nearly 75 percent of confirmed coronavirus transmissions happen inside households or during social gatherings, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said today. "
> 
> I guess you disagree with these numbers. If you want to talk about what an idiot Democrat Gov Andrew Cuomo is we can both agree.
> 
> View attachment 9682


Let me nip this in the bud.  Andrew Cuomo is not an epidemiologist.


----------



## MSK357

EOTL said:


> I think I made it clear that I did not come here to be liked. I came here to give a**holes like you what you deserve. I know it’s no fun that you and your buddies don’t get to be the only patronizing bullies here and lie at will without any pushback. I know you thought it was great when everyone you treated like s**t played nice and didn’t confront you in response. Too bad.


Push back? your comments make you laughed at here.  You are convincing nobody, in fact more and more people call you out.  youre delusional if you dont see that. lol.  Let me know when millions and millions of californians die.  But please dont count the ones that newsom killed in nursing homes.


----------



## Grace T.

MSK357 said:


> How does it feel to be the idiot of the forum who nobody likes? You find pleasure in that dont you?


the going theory is that he's a doppleganger troll for someone who regularly hangs out here.  The person clearly has some soccer knowledge but has not stated any obvious connection through either a child or personal level of plays so it's either: a. someone very frustrated with the soccer community, perhaps because of career frustrations, or b. someone who is mentally off and needs to create a troll account to lash out at people.  My money is a combination of a & b.  The abbreviation in the name is also telling.


----------



## EOTL

MSK357 said:


> Push back? your comments make you laughed at here.  You are convincing nobody, in fact more and more people call you out.  youre delusional if you dont see that. lol.  Let me know when millions and millions of californians die.  But please dont count the ones that newsom killed in nursing homes.


Sure, CA has fewer deaths per capita than virtually anywhere, yet Newsom’s a murderer?  That’s rich coming from someone who thinks everyone is dying of heartburn.


----------



## MSK357

EOTL said:


> CA has the lowest mortality rate of any state with any degree of population density, yet now you’re saying he is killing people?
> 
> How are you going to pivot when, in the next few weeks, states that did exactly what you wanted (nothing) start having higher overall death rates than NY?  What will be your excuse then?


Answer this straight up, did cuomo put covid positive patients in nursing homes where elderly sick people were being cared for?  if the answer is yes, then yes, he killed people.


----------



## Glitterhater

Grace T. said:


> the going theory is that he's a doppleganger troll for someone who regularly hangs out here.  The person clearly has some soccer knowledge but has not stated any obvious connection through either a child or personal level of plays so it's either: a. someone very frustrated with the soccer community, perhaps because of career frustrations, or b. someone who is mentally off and needs to create a troll account to lash out at people.  My money is a combination of a & b.  The abbreviation in the name is also telling.


I think it's fair to say we have more than one who is mentally off!


----------



## EOTL

Grace T. said:


> the going theory is that he's a doppleganger troll for someone who regularly hangs out here.  The person clearly has some soccer knowledge but has not stated any obvious connection through either a child or personal level of plays so it's either: a. someone very frustrated with the soccer community, perhaps because of career frustrations, or b. someone who is mentally off and needs to create a troll account to lash out at people.  My money is a combination of a & b.  The abbreviation in the name is also telling.


Ooh, we’re psychoanalyzing people. Let me play. @Grace T. is frustrated mostly with how her career has progressed over time. It started so well with that law review article she wrote and the internship where she fixed typos for real lawyers writing the Ukrainian constitution when she was in law school. But the career did not work out as she hoped and was pretty much over as soon as it actually started. Now she’s a disappointed nobody whose law “practice” involves nothing more than giving bad constitutional law advice on a soccer forum. Unfortunately, it’s pretty much the only place with an audience dumb enough to lap it up, but it’s better than nothing.

I’ll stay away from my psychoanalysis of your parenting, although moving to Utah so your kid could play soccer during a pandemic is ripe for discussion.


----------



## EOTL

Glitterhater said:


> I think it's fair to say we have more than one who is mentally off!


I’m ok it you want to call it a draw.


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> Her goal is to game the system to fit her personal desires, not to do the right thing. The American Way.


You mean to show how arbitrary and unsubstantiated some of these guidelines are and how poorly they are thought through?  Yah good point.  Still sainting on that data to show outdoor youth sports art the spreader events )go ahead and look towards the other 49 states that allowed it...they should have some data available.   

Also, talk to the over 50 Million people in the US lining up for Food lines because they can’t afford food after being put out of work.


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> Yes, you are not a math person. Or a facts person. So now you think Covid-19 SAVES lives, eh? Hey idiot. There are more than 300,000 excess deaths beyond the upper bound (i.e. worst case scenario absent a pandemic or nuke) year to date.


BIGOT!!!


----------



## MrCruett

dad4 said:


> (This is why you listen to actual experts instead of searching the web for a graph that suits your purpose.)


You do realize the only difference is the experts create the visualization. They both search for the narrative with the best fit or the one they want to share. It's the underlying mechanics of the visualization that should be scrutinized if you are going to doubt it.  Sadly, data driven deception is choking the shit out of critical thinking bc it's a quick fix of affirmation. It happens all of the time. There are also varying shades of DDD ranging from the truth but exaggerated or downplayed, to straight up fraud and deception. 

So to be fair. Criticize the data not the messenger. I'm sure each of you here has skimped on the due diligence to see if the data aligns with the narrative before sharing on this forum with a mic drop. I can tell you firsthand there are many more data points the State and Feds are not willing to share with simple drive by charts .


----------



## MrCruett

Grace T. said:


> the going theory is that he's a doppleganger troll for someone who regularly hangs out here.  The person clearly has some soccer knowledge but has not stated any obvious connection through either a child or personal level of plays so it's either: a. someone very frustrated with the soccer community, perhaps because of career frustrations, or b. someone who is mentally off and needs to create a troll account to lash out at people.  My money is a combination of a & b.  The abbreviation in the name is also telling.


I just wow everything it says hoping its the shot in the arm it needs.


----------



## crush

MSK357 said:


> How does it feel to be the idiot of the forum who nobody likes? You find pleasure in that dont you?  your claim of millions in california dying is way off.  you disregard the fact that cuomo and newsom as well as many other democrat governors put covid patients in nursing homes that killed large portions of the elderly who are the most at risk.  when did i claim 14?  when did i whine?  maybe having to read your ignorant posts.  my kids are thriving.  plenty of scrimmages and tournaments that we went to.  They are improving daily. On track to skip a grade of math.  Something you seem to have problems with as far as statistics.  This virus is low risk to my kids and young parents like me.  you can hide under a rock if you'd like.  I'll be doing what I want, guilt free.  Just wear your mask EOTL, you'll be fine. lol.


My kid is enrolling at OCC baby for extra online college credit.  She is a better online student.  No chatter box in class and trying to be social.  My son is doing 4.0 at State with biz major and is making $500 a week delivering stuff to people in South OC.  My wife and are thinking of doing the same thing next year. $25 an hour he averages with tip.  Not bad.  Uber too so just drive around as everyone is at home.  My buddy from grade school now sells THC and CBD and is almost done with being able to legally deliver good budd to clients with loads of dough that need pain relief. I might do only high end deliveries for him.  Not sure but legal now so no one should judge me?  I really want to work but only big corp is open and all my restaurant marketing biz is not going to happen.  With guys like dad 4, no way I can work.  I need a hand out like yesterday.  Cant drive out of state for soccer game, can;t work, cant go see grand parents this Christmas and so on.  Beach walks only.  Keep on the low and hope someone feeds me.  Watfy, I can hustle bro and knock doors for your business.  You got anything going big guy in Sales?  I pound doors for a living.  I will say I never did outside sales with a mask on so that would be interesting.  I never take no for an answer and I'm super quick on my feet.  Life of the party and one owner once said of me, "Your like a country club manager."  All my sales reps loved me and I fought for them and walked the streets with them.  Guys like EOTL would stay in the office and yell at these single moms for not being in the office at 8am, everyday.  Owners and higher ups always trying to lower the commission and pay less.  Not good for top producers, MOO!!!  These types was putting me down all the time.  One SOB ran his office like a jerk.  He and this other guy ((EOTL type manager)) had an office that had a 120% turnover.  The sales woman with kids were treated so horrible.  I came on the scene and treated the females extra special.  I'm serious.  Hardest working sales woman i ever had were single moms who had to provide or wives who had husbands like me that couldnt find a job and had to make all the dough.  I told them all, "score board ladies.  Bring in the sales and I'll drive to your house to get paper work."  We were #1 and I made $50,000 extra for treating others as you would want to be treated.


----------



## happy9

But what about the fate of Surf Cup?  I thought....well, I thought that's what we were talking about.  Now we are talking about the inadequacies of our local governments and the ability to cherry pick information to satisfy personal needs.

I just want to know if people still think they are playing Surf Cup.  And if they are, how do they know that.  It's apparent to many that this will not be a "best of the best" event.  Maybe so in the Summer, but not in the Winter of 2020 and 2021. 

I guess the consensus is that soccer will be played, by enough teams and not streamed but recorded.  D1 coaches will not be in attendance.  The chances of a D2/D3 coach attending are probably not very high.  Will CA D2/D3 schools go against the directives,  mandates, orders, whatever they are calling them?

There is an exact 50 camp in Mesa, AZ on 20 DEC, with some coaches scheduled to attend.


----------



## EOTL

Kicker4Life said:


> BIGOT!!!


This are my favorite retort for a couple reasons. First, I have very obviously gotten under someone’s skin. Second, I know my plan working when people go with full Karl Rove.  Specifically, the Karl Rove technique is to accuse others of your own weaknesses, which tends to confuse the weak-minded and help eliminate the importance of actual facts. Because figuring out the truth sometimes takes effort, and that is exactly what a dumb soccer parent does lacks. Before you know it, the same weak-minded fools are thinking maybe it makes a lot of sense suggesting that “people are saying” fewer people have died in the US in the year of the greatest pandemic in our lifetimes. Maybe people are really dying of heartburn in catastrophic numbers? Maybe the governor of NY is handling covid worse than the governors of the Dakotas, although the dakotas will soon have a higher mortality rate, and it’s almost impossible to get that many people together in those states to kill them in such numbers, unless the governors of those states are encouraging people to do things that spread the disease.


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> This are my favorite retort for a couple reasons. First, I have very obviously gotten under someone’s skin. Second, I know my plan working when people go with full Karl Rove.  Specifically, the Karl Rove technique is to accuse others of your own weaknesses, which tends to confuse the weak-minded and help eliminate the importance of actual facts. Because figuring out the truth sometimes takes effort, and that is exactly what a dumb soccer parent does lacks. Before you know it, the same weak-minded fools are thinking maybe it makes a lot of sense suggesting that “people are saying” fewer people have died in the US in the year of the greatest pandemic in our lifetimes. Maybe people
> are really dying of heartburn in catastrophic numbers? Maybe the governor of NY is handling covid worse than the governors of the Dakotas, although the dakotas will soon have a higher mortality rate, and it’s almost impossible to get that many people together in those states to kill them in such numbers, unless the governors of those states are encouraging people to do things that spread the disease.


turnabout is fair play.......appreciate your indirect admission.


----------



## happy9

EOTL said:


> This are my favorite retort for a couple reasons. First, I have very obviously gotten under someone’s skin. Second, I know my plan working when people go with full Karl Rove.  Specifically, the Karl Rove technique is to accuse others of your own weaknesses, which tends to confuse the weak-minded and help eliminate the importance of actual facts. Because figuring out the truth sometimes takes effort, and that is exactly what a dumb soccer parent does lacks. Before you know it, the same weak-minded fools are thinking maybe it makes a lot of sense suggesting that “people are saying” fewer people have died in the US in the year of the greatest pandemic in our lifetimes. Maybe people
> are really dying of heartburn in catastrophic numbers? Maybe the governor of NY is handling covid worse than the governors of the Dakotas, although the dakotas will soon have a higher mortality rate, and it’s almost impossible to get that many people together in those states to kill them in such numbers, unless the governors of those states are encouraging people to do things that spread the disease.


Does Karl Rove have a kid playing in Surf Cup?  It's probably something he could get behind.


----------



## dad4

happy9 said:


> But what about the fate of Surf Cup?  I thought....well, I thought that's what we were talking about.  Now we are talking about the inadequacies of our local governments and the ability to cherry pick information to satisfy personal needs.
> 
> I just want to know if people still think they are playing Surf Cup.  And if they are, how do they know that.  It's apparent to many that this will not be a "best of the best" event.  Maybe so in the Summer, but not in the Winter of 2020 and 2021.
> 
> I guess the consensus is that soccer will be played, by enough teams and not streamed but recorded.  D1 coaches will not be in attendance.  The chances of a D2/D3 coach attending are probably not very high.  Will CA D2/D3 schools go against the directives,  mandates, orders, whatever they are calling them?
> 
> There is an exact 50 camp in Mesa, AZ on 20 DEC, with some coaches scheduled to attend.


They covered it pages ago before we all went off topic.

Surf is on, but much smaller.   Many top clubs are not attending.  Surf and some Blues teams are going, but no other clubs were named as definitely attending.  This leaves open slots to be filled by weaker teams.  

The new guidance might or might not change things for the clubs/teams who are still in.


----------



## 46n2

Here’s a chart I found online


----------



## whatithink

Grace T. said:


> No way that happens if the California standards remain in place.  They'll be low levels of transmission still for the foreseeable future unless they do a massive and very sweeping vaccine mandate (remember they aren't even planning to catch kids 0-12 until late summer/early fall, and if they try and do a mandate we have other problems).  A return to normalcy only happens if people demand a return to normal after the vaccine is widely deployed and force the government's hand.  Otherwise, if these standards remain in place, tournaments likely aren't happening this summer, league play will be restricted in the fall, and Disneyland is probably at restricted capacity and with mask mandates.  Remember, in California, there is no green tier.


Nah, I think it'll be open come the summer. We'll see.


----------



## EOTL

Kicker4Life said:


> You mean to show how arbitrary and unsubstantiated some of these guidelines are and how poorly they are thought through?  Yah good point.  Still sainting on that data to show outdoor youth sports art the spreader events )go ahead and look towards the other 49 states that allowed it...they should have some data available.
> 
> Also, talk to the over 50 Million people in the US lining up for Food lines because they can’t afford food after being put out of work.


They’re just in line for heartburn medication. 

If @MSK357 can say everyone is dying of heartburn or anything else besides Covid-19, why can’t my truth be that no one is unemployed, they’re just in line for something else. Truthiness forever! Who needs facts?


----------



## MSK357

EOTL said:


> They’re just in line for heartburn medication.
> 
> If @MSK357 can say everyone is dying of heartburn or anything else besides Covid-19, why can’t my truth be that no one is unemployed, they’re just in line for something else. Truthiness forever! Who needs facts?


Prove that I said "Everyone is dying of heartburn" Troll. Nobody takes you serious. lol


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> Who needs facts?


Obviously not the people making policies!

Don’t confuse the “died with” versus “died of” distinction.  Try not to splash around and muddy the water whilst throwing your tantrums when your wrong.  It’s very childish.

As for the Food Lines, watched the story on CNN this morning.  WHO estimates over 150 million worldwide will be adversely affected by hunger directly related to Covid policies.   If 1% of those affected dieting would be triple the number that have Died With Covid.  How many people have to die because of inept policy making?  How many are you ok with killing?


----------



## ITFC Blues

dad4 said:


> They covered it pages ago before we all went off topic.
> 
> Surf is on, but much smaller.   Many top clubs are not attending.  Surf and some Blues teams are going, but no other clubs were named as definitely attending.  This leaves open slots to be filled by weaker teams.
> 
> The new guidance might or might not change things for the clubs/teams who are still in.


It seem odd that a club as high profile as Surf would publicly violate the guidance by sending their teams.   I wouldn't be shocked to see CDPH make and example out of them, as they are just flat out saying they won't adhere to the guidance if they send any of their CA based teams.  Likewise it would be very bad PR for any big clubs to send teams.


----------



## EOTL

Kicker4Life said:


> Obviously not the people making policies!
> 
> Don’t confuse the “died with” versus “died of” distinction.  Try not to splash around and muddy the water whilst throwing your tantrums when your wrong.  It’s very childish.
> 
> As for the Food Lines, watched the story on CNN this morning.  WHO estimates over 150 million worldwide will be adversely affected by hunger directly related to Covid policies.   If 1% of those affected dieting would be triple the number that have Died With Covid.  How many people have to die because of inept policy making?  How many are you ok with killing?


Yes, I get it. You and your buddies think heartburn and other ailments are killing everyone, although there are more than 300,000 excess deaths so far this year compared to the estimated upper bound (aka worst case scenario).  Rationalize however you like, but more than 300,000 people have died so far because of Covid-19, and you and your friends are ready to kill as many more as it takes so your kiddie can lace ‘em up right now. 

It is nice to hear that you are finally concerned about world hunger. You got a really, really late start on that, but better late than never.


----------



## Spfister

EOTL said:


> Why has all of this happened?  Because too many people refused to look past even their own short term interests. Remember when @MSK357 and his friends were calling this a hoax and were upset about social distancing because they claimed only 14, then 120, then only 1000 than no way it get above 12000? And when @Grace T. was encouraging unnecessary interstate travel and even gloating about it, and was ripping in masks until last week? And @Desert Hound complaining about not being able to go to bars and encouraging everyone to travel to AZ for kiddie soccer? Even now these people are blaming those who took it seriously and did their best to limit spread for causing people to commit suicide 10 months into a pandemic that they caused to spin out of control.
> 
> Don’t blame me for where we are.





EOTL said:


> Because virtually every state in the country has much higher infection and mortality rates than CA. Because all the contacts you will have at the airport and all the other places you go significantly increases the risk that you will bring it to CA. Because taking steps to discourage mass travel significantly reduces the number of interactions people have which, in turn, substantially slows down the rate of transmission. Because if you can’t travel, the 1000 people you would have had some close contact with at the airport and during your visit, and the 1000 they had, and the 1000 they had, is now zero. You only have your trip to the grocery store and the five people you ran into there that you can potentially kill.


Oh God it’s you again… Preaching.  What are you goinf talk about when this thing goes away.


crush said:


> View attachment 9676
> 
> Don't lie to little girls!!!!!
> 
> @EOTL I have Q for you.  Why are you so mean to kids and their parents?  Why you here?  Honestly, no kids that play the game but here 24/7? Where is Espola when you need him?  You made fun of my dd and have said on numerous times how she is no good now.  Just so you know, she is on here.  100% true bro.  She can write very well so get ready for her.  I want you two to have an open discussion as well.  She's a big girl and can handle her own.  I know she is appalled at the things you say.  I must admit, I too have said things that she's appalled by so were both typical males. You have given her great motivation sir and some others on here as well.  Plus, you blame me for taking all the top 04' Blues players to Surf so I could win the Natty, which was a big fat lie and hurt my reputation.  I can also go back and read all your BS!!!!  My goat is motivated like non other. Running hills at 9am.  She wont forget it, like ever the things you said about her.  She is getting ready to showcase and prove you wrong brother. Telling her she's all washed up and a "has been" and not the player she was when she was 11, 12 and 13 is so sic.  Shame on you mean little man. Plus, mean man EOTL is also mean to our sweet Gracie.  Love you Grace   You can say sorry right now to her and my dd.  Karma????  We both have forgiven you.  Please, do the right thing and treat all the young girls right and all woman.  Parents were sold BS and were lied to so many times and you just laugh at us Coach _______________________________________.


i’ve asked that before… About EOTL. I don’t even think he has kids that play soccer… He just likes to come on here and call everyone murderers and selfish bastards. He’s part of the “woke” culture Where everyone is a racist selfish prick if you don’t agree with him.  Stating that everything should be perpetually shut down while I’m sure he’s sitting on his ass at home collecting a paycheck.  I just him ignore him for the most part.  .


----------



## watfly

ITFC Blues said:


> It seem odd that a club as high profile as Surf would publicly violate the guidance by sending their teams.   I wouldn't be shocked to see CDPH make and example out of them, as they are just flat out saying they won't adhere to the guidance if they send any of their CA based teams.  Likewise it would be very bad PR for any big clubs to send teams.


Surf has really painted itself into a corner.  They probably should have canceled last week with the stay at home order as an excuse.


----------



## notintheface

watfly said:


> Surf has really painted itself into a corner.  They probably should have canceled last week with the stay at home order as an excuse.


On this, we can agree. You might also change "week" into "August", but hey.

We're 12 days out from Surf Youngers and no schedule posted. There are definitely tournaments that hold off until the last minute, but Surf are running out of time for coach conflicts, parent scheduling ("do we make the drive early Sunday or late Saturday night"), etc. I'd be getting nervous for my $1400 right about now.


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> Yes, I get it. You and your buddies think heartburn and other ailments are killing everyone, although there are more than 300,000 excess deaths so far this year compared to the estimated upper bound (aka worst case scenario).  Rationalize however you like, but more than 300,000 people have died so far because of Covid-19, and you and your friends are ready to kill as many more as it takes so your kiddie can lace ‘em up right now.
> 
> It is nice to hear that you are finally concerned about world hunger. You got a really, really late start on that, but better late than never.


In “excess” of what?   How does 2020 stack up agains YTD 2019?  

I don’t have a “kiddie” both mine are Olders but at least I have 2 that play.  Still waiting on that data to support youth outdoor sports are any more of a “spreader event” than going to the grocery store.....really burning you up isn’t it.  

I’m not the one rationalizing......


----------



## watfly

notintheface said:


> On this, we can agree. You might also change "week" into "August", but hey.


I wish I could, but you remember how I wanted Surf to hold the tournament as a "middle finger to government overreach".  Well now that middle finger looks more like a poke in their own eye.


----------



## Glitterhater

happy9 said:


> But what about the fate of Surf Cup?  I thought....well, I thought that's what we were talking about.  Now we are talking about the inadequacies of our local governments and the ability to cherry pick information to satisfy personal needs.
> 
> I just want to know if people still think they are playing Surf Cup.  And if they are, how do they know that.  It's apparent to many that this will not be a "best of the best" event.  Maybe so in the Summer, but not in the Winter of 2020 and 2021.
> 
> I guess the consensus is that soccer will be played, by enough teams and not streamed but recorded.  D1 coaches will not be in attendance.  The chances of a D2/D3 coach attending are probably not very high.  Will CA D2/D3 schools go against the directives,  mandates, orders, whatever they are calling them?
> 
> There is an exact 50 camp in Mesa, AZ on 20 DEC, with some coaches scheduled to attend.


Just go with. I gave up trying to decipher half of the threads here.


----------



## happy9

Glitterhater said:


> Just go with. I gave up trying to decipher half of the threads here.


I know, but there isn't a tangible end state resulting from rehashing opinions based on which side you chose back in March. Oh well.  

I figured enough people on here know enough (and know someone, if even twice removed) to nail this down.  I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter for most.  I would say that many on here are not going based on their club's decision.  I live here and our club has backed out, citing lack of schedules, quality fields, and quality of competition.   I would think many clubs used similar criteria (along with travel restrictions/mandates, etc)


----------



## DFTibor

MacDre said:


> Come on Grace, the cannons of legislative construction is basic 1L stuff.  To hell with the plain meaning of the order written under duress during a pandemic, what is the legislative intent?


And so then the 2L con law questions are first whether the State has the authority to prohibit its residents from engaging in specific and otherwise lawful activity while in another state, and if so, what is the standard of review?   Can you think of any current examples where a regulation like this exists?  

Please don't take from my questions that I'm pro or anti covid restrictions or pro or anti surf cup as that horse has been beaten to a pulp; I'm interested in your take, EOTL's and others who are willing to stick to the question of the legitimacy of such blanket "out of state tournament ban" and whether you are concerned about the precedent it would set across the country concerning other morality/public health issues like prohibiting traveling to other States to engage in gambling, recreational drug use, abortion, assisted suicide, etc.?  (And please, I'm not saying kiddie soccer is the same as assisted suicide and the other issues I just mentioned, it's just my initial "slippery slope argument" thought in the moment.)

This specific ban is just above prohibiting dining indoors while in a different State.  Has that been banned yet too?  I think we agree it is not smart to eat indoors whether it is legal in a jurisdiction or not, but does the State have the police power to regulate that activity outside its borders to this extent?  

My thought, because of my concern over precedent as well as a broader approach to actually reduce further introduction of the virus into CA is that a more appropriate regulation would be a mandatory quarantine upon arrival to the State, essential travel or not.  Thoughts?


----------



## Messi>CR7

Glitterhater said:


> Just go with. I gave up trying to decipher half of the threads here.


The only thing more arbitrary than CDPH's youth sports guidance is Dominic's enforcement of no-politics/Covid talk policy.

@Dominic, sorry for the cheap shot


----------



## MrCruett

46n2 said:


> Here’s a chart I found online


Helpful. Are there other charts?


----------



## Desert Hound

Messi>CR7 said:


> The only thing more arbitrary than CDPH's youth sports guidance is Dominic's enforcement of no-politics/Covid talk policy.
> 
> @Dominic, sorry for the cheap shot


That comment may get you the ban hammer. Nice to know you 

Just be subtle when you sneak back. Something like Messi...>...CR.7. That will probably fool him.


----------



## EOTL

Kicker4Life said:


> In “excess” of what?   How does 2020 stack up agains YTD 2019?
> 
> I don’t have a “kiddie” both mine are Olders but at least I have 2 that play.  Still waiting on that data to support youth outdoor sports are any more of a “spreader event” than going to the grocery store.....really burning you up isn’t it.
> 
> I’m not the one rationalizing......


It’s all right there at the CDC website if you cared to look. It identifies the number of excess deaths, it explains how it comes to its numbers, and explains what the upper and lower boundaries mean. If you expect me to repeat what the CDC says here so you can then claim it’s false because I said it, no.

As I said earlier, everyone claims the thing that is important to them doesn’t cause Covid. I don’t really care about your denialism - other than it gives me something to mock - because science and common sense are winning and saving lives in CA. And if you don’t like it, the Dakotas are waiting.


----------



## MrCruett

EOTL said:


> It’s all right there at the CDC website if you cared to look. It identifies the number of excess deaths, it explains how it comes to its numbers, and explains what the upper and lower boundaries mean. If you expect me to repeat what the CDC says here so you can then claim it’s false because I said it, no.
> 
> As I said earlier, everyone claims the thing that is important to them doesn’t cause Covid. I don’t really care about your denialism - other than it gives me something to mock - because science and common sense are winning and saving lives in CA. And if you don’t like it, the Dakotas are waiting.


A positive side effect of the lockdowns has been the decreasing rate of STD infections being reported per PornHub.


----------



## MacDre

DFTibor said:


> And so then the 2L con law questions are first whether the State has the authority to prohibit its residents from engaging in specific and otherwise lawful activity while in another state, and if so, what is the standard of review?   Can you think of any current examples where a regulation like this exists?
> 
> Please don't take from my questions that I'm pro or anti covid restrictions or pro or anti surf cup as that horse has been beaten to a pulp; I'm interested in your take, EOTL's and others who are willing to stick to the question of the legitimacy of such blanket "out of state tournament ban" and whether you are concerned about the precedent it would set across the country concerning other morality/public health issues like prohibiting traveling to other States to engage in gambling, recreational drug use, abortion, assisted suicide, etc.?  (And please, I'm not saying kiddie soccer is the same as assisted suicide and the other issues I just mentioned, it's just my initial "slippery slope argument" thought in the moment.)
> 
> This specific ban is just above prohibiting dining indoors while in a different State.  Has that been banned yet too?  I think we agree it is not smart to eat indoors whether it is legal in a jurisdiction or not, but does the State have the police power to regulate that activity outside its borders to this extent?
> 
> 
> My thought, because of my concern over precedent as well as a broader approach to actually reduce further introduction of the virus into CA is that a more appropriate regulation would be a mandatory quarantine upon arrival to the State, essential travel or not.  Thoughts?


I’m not concerned about precedent here because I believe the facts of a global pandemic are distinguishable from gambling, prostitution, pot shops, abortions etc. So, the only time precedent will be an issue is during a global pandemic every 100 or so years.  No biggie. 

I also don’t agree with framing the issue as a “blanket out of state tournament ban.”  No one cares about kiddie soccer.  We are in the midst of a global pandemic with over 300,000 dead already.  So, setting policy to protect citizens of the state during an emergency global pandemic is well within police powers.

You’ve suggested a reasonable policy that will never be adopted.  The San Ysidro port of entry is too important and the quarantine suggested would close the port.  Setting policy is kinda like setting goals-they have to be realistic and attainable.  Shutting down San Ysidro isn’t realistic or attainable.


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> It’s all right there at the CDC website if you cared to look. It identifies the number of excess deaths, it explains how it comes to its numbers, and explains what the upper and lower boundaries mean. If you expect me to repeat what the CDC says here so you can then claim it’s false because I said it, no.
> 
> As I said earlier, everyone claims the thing that is important to them doesn’t cause Covid. I don’t really care about your denialism - other than it gives me something to mock - because science and common sense are winning and saving lives in CA. And if you don’t like it, the Dakotas are waiting.


Indeed it does...I wanted to make sure you read it cause it doesn’t play into your argument like to want to claim it does.  

Yet you STILL can’t show me the “science” behind outdoor sports.....#winning

Silly Troll....your bridge is lonely.


----------



## Jose has returned

Kicker4Life said:


> Indeed it does...I wanted to make sure you read it cause it doesn’t play into your argument like to want to claim it does.
> 
> Yet you STILL can’t show me the “science” behind outdoor sports.....#winning
> 
> Silly Troll....your bridge is lonely.


Im following this thread closely just to see the final answer.  Waiting on science


----------



## Spfister

notintheface said:


> On this, we can agree. You might also change "week" into "August", but hey.
> 
> We're 12 days out from Surf Youngers and no schedule posted. There are definitely tournaments that hold off until the last minute, but Surf are running out of time for coach conflicts, parent scheduling ("do we make the drive early Sunday or late Saturday night"), etc. I'd be getting nervous for my $1400 right about now.


12 days is nothing. Typically schedules are released 7 to 10 days.


----------



## EOTL

Kicker4Life said:


> Indeed it does...I wanted to make sure you read it cause it doesn’t play into your argument like to want to claim it does.
> 
> Yet you STILL can’t show me the “science” behind outdoor sports.....#winning
> 
> Silly Troll....your bridge is lonely.


I can’t help you with lack of comprehension.  That requires years of work, and I just don’t have the time or the inclination.  The CDC explains the issue very clearly at its website. Again, you just don’t lime the answer so your going with “alternative facts”. Qanon is very proud if you. 

SoCal Blues vs. AYSO Yuma seems like a compelling match-up. Enjoy.


----------



## Luis Andres

Tennis and track are looking really good right now.


----------



## Kante

soccer4us said:


> Outdoor and Indoor Youth and Recreational Adult Sports
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cdph.ca.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how many years...oh I mean months is the Orange tier away for CA....


They put soccer in the category as football and rugby. awesome. so much for following the science and data. ^%&*^%

where's that recall petition? (and i say this as a dark blue Dem)


----------



## watfly

Luis Andres said:


> View attachment 9688
> Tennis and track are looking really good right now.


Badminton is pissed.  Cheerleading just got demoted 3 levels.


----------



## Kante

Grace T. said:


> The issue, as has been discussed before, is that if the wording is definitive enough it will nullifying any insurance the club is carrying.  Also now it depends on how the governing entities will respond to the guidance....they might be pressured to suspend orgs and clubs that violate the prohibition.
> 
> The Volleyball lobbyists were asleep at the wheel.   How is dodgeball any different in contact?


so ok. just genuinely curious. and figured you might know.

Why did the gov people's use the phrase "must not" instead of "may not" or specifically say that out of state tournaments "are prohibited".

At first glance, seems to imply that the gov's people consciously did not use the phrase "may not" or "are prohibited".


----------



## Kante

socalkdg said:


> Guess my kid is running track at school.   They put girls Lacrosse and boys lacrosse in different categories?  Do they have different rules?  I thought Lacrosse was more physical than soccer?   Indoor basketball is never happening.   How football and soccer can be put in the same category is absurd. Blocking and tackling.  Sheesh.


and rugby.


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> I can’t help you with lack of comprehension.  That requires years of work, and I just don’t have the time or the inclination.  The CDC explains the issue very clearly at its website. Again, you just don’t lime the answer so your going with “alternative facts”. Qanon is very proud if you.
> 
> SoCal Blues vs. AYSO Yuma seems like a compelling match-up. Enjoy.


Hahahaha......So I’ll take that as,  “I’m Sorry, I can’t find anything supporting my argument that soccer/outdoor sports are killing everyone.”

#WINNING


----------



## Soccer Bum 06

Luis Andres said:


> View attachment 9688
> Tennis and track are looking really good right now.


CIF can be added to the other organizations who have failed our children.


----------



## espola

MrCruett said:


> A positive side effect of the lockdowns has been the decreasing rate of STD infections being reported per PornHub.


And you only read Pornhub for the news articles, right?


----------



## 46n2

When you bring up science , they just can't answer it can they.  I hope Surf Cup is on , if it is we definitely plan on going still. 



happy9 said:


> I know, but there isn't a tangible end state resulting from rehashing opinions based on which side you chose back in March. Oh well.
> 
> I figured enough people on here know enough (and know someone, if even twice removed) to nail this down.  I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter for most.  I would say that many on here are not going based on their club's decision.  *I live here and our club has backed out, citing lack of schedules, quality fields, and quality of competition*.   I would think many clubs used similar criteria (along with travel restrictions/mandates, etc)


how is this quote real?  Have you walked all the fields, not is as bad as galloway or lancaster fields, even throw some vegas in there----did study all the teams and the schedules, 

whoa sorry there princess. 

 AZ teams have never traditionally been strong teams, you would think you guys would participate just because of all the attention and scrimmages you have been getting, quality of competition are you serious, you must be related to Luis or Crush


----------



## Jose has returned

Luis Andres said:


> View attachment 9688
> Tennis and track are looking really good right now.


Badminton is more dangerous than tennis   Bahahahaha  okay i will trust science when they use common sense


----------



## 46n2

you must be a 09 team


----------



## espola

Jose has returned said:


> Badminton is more dangerous than tennis   Bahahahaha  okay i will trust science when they use common sense


Badminton is an indoor sport.


----------



## crush

Jose has returned said:


> Badminton is more dangerous than tennis   Bahahahaha  okay i will trust science when they use common sense


I see Sparky made it back to the forum.  Hey bro, where does Ice Hockey fit in the colors?  Are you still skating and playing and knocking fools in the board?  Peace brah!!!


----------



## Jose has returned

espola said:


> Badminton is an indoor sport.


ok  stand corrected.  Ive never seen a real game.  but with just a 4 people in a gym still seems a little absurd


----------



## Jose has returned

crush said:


> I see Sparky made it back to the forum.  Hey bro, where does Ice Hockey fit in the colors?  Are you still skating and playing and knocking fools in the board?  Peace brah!!!


you know me so well


----------



## Grace T.

Kante said:


> so ok. just genuinely curious. and figured you might know.
> 
> Why did the gov people's use the phrase "must not" instead of "may not" or specifically say that out of state tournaments "are prohibited".
> 
> At first glance, seems to imply that the gov's people consciously did not use the phrase "may not" or "are prohibited".


Not a whole lot about this document makes sense so who knows why they did what they did.  What we do know about the tournament language sentence is it was added to the draft which had been circulating internally for a while, when tournaments in Arizona became an issue, so it was probably redlined in after the fact.


----------



## dad4

espola said:


> And you only read Pornhub for the news articles, right?


Better than clicking refresh on the covid sites, wishing the news would suddenly be different.


----------



## Grace T.

watfly said:


> Badminton is pissed.  Cheerleading just got demoted 3 levels.


Cheerleading was always in the yellow tier if indoors.  I guess CIF is saying its impractical to move either basketball or cheerleading outdoors....true?  I thought the entire big Florida cheer competition took place outdoors...at least that's what Netflix tells me?


----------



## Kante

Kante said:


> so ok. just genuinely curious. and figured you might know.
> 
> Why did the gov people's use the phrase "must not" instead of "may not" or specifically say that out of state tournaments "are prohibited".
> 
> At first glance, seems to imply that the gov's people consciously did not use the phrase "may not" or "are prohibited".


I guess where I'm going is that prohibiting travel seems like one of those reaches that may not be constutional (writing this


Grace T. said:


> Cheerleading was always in the yellow tier if indoors.  I guess CIF is saying its impractical to move either basketball or cheerleading outdoors....true?  I thought the entire big Florida cheer competition took place outdoors...at least that's what Netflix tells me?


Here's the 16 page NFHSA Medical Advisory Committee guidance published back in the fall - https://nfhs.org/media/3812287/2020-nfhs-guidance-for-opening-up-high-school-athletics-and-activities-nfhs-smac-may-15_2020-final.pdf

Below are their definitions and, importantly, criteria for grouping the sports into different tiers (which is the minimum the gov owes the players and the families)

per NFHSA, soccer is moderate risk i.e. should be red tier.

Almost every state - including WA and OR - California is following their guidance, but not California.


----------



## Glitterhater

Kante said:


> They put soccer in the category as football and rugby. awesome. so much for following the science and data. ^%&*^%
> 
> where's that recall petition? (and i say this as a dark blue Dem)


Solidarity.


----------



## happy9

46n2 said:


> When you bring up science , they just can't answer it can they.  I hope Surf Cup is on , if it is we definitely plan on going still.
> 
> 
> how is this quote real?  Have you walked all the fields, not is as bad as galloway or lancaster fields, even throw some vegas in there----did study all the teams and the schedules,
> 
> whoa sorry there princess.
> 
> AZ teams have never traditionally been strong teams, you would think you guys would participate just because of all the attention and scrimmages you have been getting, quality of competition are you serious, you must be related to Luis or Crush
> 
> View attachment 9689


Why are you so easily offended Karen?


----------



## MrCruett

espola said:


> And you only read Pornhub for the news articles, right?


Well how bad can everything be if people are still screwing.


----------



## N00B

Lol... just noticed this thread got moved to where it was always headed... COVID FORUM


----------



## N00B

espola said:


> And you only read Pornhub for the news articles, right?


They have articles on that site.... just thought the articles were promotion pieces to drive traffic from such hard hitting sources as Yahoo.


----------



## N00B

Don’t have a horse in this race (Surf Cup)... but curious, are they requiring travel papers?  If so, maybe the ‘must not’ language is a threat to CA based governing bodies (CalSouth, etc.)


----------



## N00B

N00B said:


> They have articles on that site.... just thought the articles were promotion pieces to drive traffic from such hard hitting sources as Yahoo.


Wow... missing the “?” After “they have articles on that site? Really gives the wrong impression.


----------



## DFTibor

MacDre said:


> I’m not concerned about precedent here because I believe the facts of a global pandemic are distinguishable from gambling, prostitution, pot shops, abortions etc. So, the only time precedent will be an issue is during a global pandemic every 100 or so years.  No biggie.
> 
> I also don’t agree with framing the issue as a “blanket out of state tournament ban.”  No one cares about kiddie soccer.  We are in the midst of a global pandemic with over 300,000 dead already.  So, setting policy to protect citizens of the state during an emergency global pandemic is well within police powers.
> 
> You’ve suggested a reasonable policy that will never be adopted.  The San Ysidro port of entry is too important and the quarantine suggested would close the port.  Setting policy is kinda like setting goals-they have to be realistic and attainable.  Shutting down San Ysidro isn’t realistic or attainable.


Let me try again on the framing, I agree it was a bit broad.  This is an issue of CA prohibiting its citizens from going somewhere else to play a sport (soccer as it concerns us in this forum) where people will gather but also where it is legal in an effort to reduce the spread of COVID 19 during a global pandemic. 

It's power reach that is the issue, not the fact that it impacts kiddie soccer, and it is that power reach that interferes with issues of interstate commerce, contracts, and substantive due process.  *Can you think of any regulation where one State prohibits its residents from participating in lawful activity while they’re in another State?*

I think you’d agree with me that the State has a legitimate and compelling public interest in protecting the health and safety of its citizens, whether it is a global pandemic, local epidemic, or even noon on a Tuesday, right?  For that reason I disagree that it matters for purposes of precedent setting whether this particular pandemic is a distinguishing context for such a reach.  The distinguishing thing here is the reach itself in trying to combat a virus when compared to other pandemics.

Someone on this thread mentioned  STD’s being down.  So here’s an example.  Sexually transmitted infections (STIs) are an enormous health crisis and is also categorized as a global pandemic, one we’ve been in for decades.  I’m not 50 and I remember the hysteria of the AIDS epidemic in the 80s.  Americans report approximately 20 million new STIs to the CDC every year and it is rising.  Certain STIs are linked to cancer, not curable, and new cases of STIs are disproportionately high in people aged 15-24 who are the most sexually active (i.e. people spreading the disease) and do not treat because they are more often uninsured and the symptoms often don’t present until more serious health conditions arise.  Sound familiar?  Yet it is undisputed that *all* STIs are preventable and for this reason prostitution is illegal in CA.   *BUT,* there is no law or regulation prohibiting Californians from hiring prostitutes while in certain counties in Nevada or abroad where it is legal.  Why not?  Similarly Los Angeles County a few years ago, using the justification that porn actors were spreading STIs into the community required the actors to wear condoms during filming in the County.  So the locations of filming moved outside the County.  If the justification is real, why the did the County not require all porn actors living in the County to always use protection when filming regardless of location? 

Maybe it is because the positivity rate and death rate associated with STIs is within a range that is acceptable to society?  Maybe it is because they are transmitted through sexual acts instead of through the air, but still to unsuspecting citizens.  Those are ridiculous distinctions if the concern is about public health and eliminating a pandemic.  You say no one cares about kiddie soccer, well who the hell cares enough about dudes hiring prostitutes to keep such a ban off the books? 

Yes 300,000 Americans have died and it’s tragic and awful and fairly close to home for me.  A person in my office lost her father last month to COVID.  Is that what this is about, hitting a large number of deaths is justification for banning legal activity in another State?  If so, what was the triggering number?  

If we want prevent COVID from coming into CA, we need to lock it down, we need real quarantines, not just kiddie soccer ones?  How many truck drivers do you think cross in and out of CA every single day?  And people want to talk about a 1,000 families (if that) from CA traveling for youth sports like it is somehow the difference maker to ending this pandemic?  CA truck stops along I10 have see more out of state truckers in a month than Reach 11 will see in a year and I'm sure you've seen all the precautions they're taking to prevent the spread of COVID.  That is just one of many truck routes into the State.    

I hear you when you say it has to be realistic and attainable.  Why is it not?  There is a whole industry out there because CA already has greater restrictions on the number of axles, etc.  I see huge opportunity here for the industry to expand increasing employment opportunity, not only in CA but in bordering States, consisting of CA truckers at the borders dropping off loads leaving CA and taking over loads entering CA where the delivery of those goods that are perishable, cannot wait, or even where the shipper or end consumer doesn't want to wait for a quarantine period.  Is there an economic impact, yes, but what is compared to dragging this nonsense we're going through along endlessly?  As it is right now, to my knowledge, truckers are only asked if they have any symptoms and if they say they're not, they are allowed to proceed.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

I think this covid debate is getting very old now.  Time to focus on the next most hated topic.....surf cup.  Lol.  JK.  

So... no spring season til? April?


----------



## 46n2

happy9 said:


> Why are you so easily offended Karen?


Oh Im not offended honey, Im just tired of people.  Once the sun sets again and teams can play regularly , alot of you will get off your little imaginary plane ride and realize that during this break all of the top team have been staying quiet and working and will again sweep each team like they have pre covid....(even during)

I found your post hilarious thats all, 

Just to be clear you opt'ed out because of no competition or schedules ????.  How do you know who's playing.

Who's the real Karen here.

Too say a bold statement like that you must have a amazing team thats got more hardware then anyone else in the past 3 year?

worst yet , your coach probably fed you that line .


----------



## happy9

46n2 said:


> When you bring up science , they just can't answer it can they.  I hope Surf Cup is on , if it is we definitely plan on going still.
> 
> 
> how is this quote real?  Have you walked all the fields, not is as bad as galloway or lancaster fields, even throw some vegas in there----did study all the teams and the schedules,
> 
> whoa sorry there princess.
> 
> AZ teams have never traditionally been strong teams, you would think you guys would participate just because of all the attention and scrimmages you have been getting, quality of competition are you serious, you must be related to Luis or Crush
> 
> View attachment 9689


How silly is your assertation about fields.  I've been on most fields that soccer is played on in the greater phoenix area.  Why would Surf want to play their "best of the best" tournament on anything other than top notch fields?  But please let me know how great those fields are this time of year that aren't Scottsdale or Reach.  You'll get SSC, but that's it.  Dead grass and dust this time of the year.  But's that fine for a "not the best of the best" tournament.

So quick to talk down AZ soccer.  Doesn't really bother parents in AZ, you guys clearly have the advantage with your population density, doesn't hurt my feelings.  With that said, AZ letter league teams do just fine against the mighty socal clubs, especially on the girls side.  You provide great training grounds for our players to be seen and to play at the next level.  I personally thank you for making both of my players better. We've consistently won and been at the top of the table the last  3 yrs whilst playing against the top clubs in CA.

You are just mad that many if not most of the top teams in CA are not coming and that all of the AZ top girls teams aren't playing, thus watering down the "best of the best". I don't know where you stand in terms of the club you play on and  I don't really care, playing is playing.

Just call it what is is, *a severely watered down soccer event.*  Just get over the denial. It's your choice to come and fortunately you are free to make this choice at least for today anyway. We will see what other travel directives are thrown your way and we will see what happens on the AZ public health front.  In all seriousness, we are worse off than where we were in JULY, and that's not a good thing, because JUN/JULY was bad. 

I'm not a rona hysteric by any means and an firmly on the side of making adult choices on behalf of your  family.  I'm not interested in governments telling me what to do. I will tell you this, Phoenix hospitals are full to the brim with COVID patients - it's not click bait or a catchy headline.  Go look up the stats yourself, I'm not here to prove anything to you.  As a parent, my biggest fear right now is to have to take my kids or spouse for emergent treatment and not having  the facilities/capacity/care available to rapidly assess and treat.  My kids are still going to practice, they are still going to school, and one is a driver.  Things happen and people have to go to the ER.  I am choosing to live as normal a life as I can and resist the urge to protect my kids at all costs. Hospital capacity and lack of care is a real thing right now, something to be considered.

So have at it and come to AZ with open eyes.  I wish you the safest of travels and that your player enjoys him/herself.


----------



## N00B

DFTibor said:


> Let me try again on the framing, I agree it was a bit broad.  This is an issue of CA prohibiting its citizens from going somewhere else to play a sport (soccer as it concerns us in this forum) where people will gather but also where it is legal in an effort to reduce the spread of COVID 19 during a global pandemic.
> 
> It's power reach that is the issue, not the fact that it impacts kiddie soccer, and it is that power reach that interferes with issues of interstate commerce, contracts, and substantive due process.  *Can you think of any regulation where one State prohibits its residents from participating in lawful activity while they’re in another State?*
> 
> I think you’d agree with me that the State has a legitimate and compelling public interest in protecting the health and safety of its citizens, whether it is a global pandemic, local epidemic, or even noon on a Tuesday, right?  For that reason I disagree that it matters for purposes of precedent setting whether this particular pandemic is a distinguishing context for such a reach.  The distinguishing thing here is the reach itself in trying to combat a virus when compared to other pandemics.
> 
> Someone on this thread mentioned  STD’s being down.  So here’s an example.  Sexually transmitted infections (STIs) are an enormous health crisis and is also categorized as a global pandemic, one we’ve been in for decades.  I’m not 50 and I remember the hysteria of the AIDS epidemic in the 80s.  Americans report approximately 20 million new STIs to the CDC every year and it is rising.  Certain STIs are linked to cancer, not curable, and new cases of STIs are disproportionately high in people aged 15-24 who are the most sexually active (i.e. people spreading the disease) and do not treat because they are more often uninsured and the symptoms often don’t present until more serious health conditions arise.  Sound familiar?  Yet it is undisputed that *all* STIs are preventable and for this reason prostitution is illegal in CA.   *BUT,* there is no law or regulation prohibiting Californians from hiring prostitutes while in certain counties in Nevada or abroad where it is legal.  Why not?  Similarly Los Angeles County a few years ago, using the justification that porn actors were spreading STIs into the community required the actors to wear condoms during filming in the County.  So the locations of filming moved outside the County.  If the justification is real, why the did the County not require all porn actors living in the County to always use protection when filming regardless of location?
> 
> Maybe it is because the positivity rate and death rate associated with STIs is within a range that is acceptable to society?  Maybe it is because they are transmitted through sexual acts instead of through the air, but still to unsuspecting citizens.  Those are ridiculous distinctions if the concern is about public health and eliminating a pandemic.  You say no one cares about kiddie soccer, well who the hell cares enough about dudes hiring prostitutes to keep such a ban off the books?
> 
> Yes 300,000 Americans have died and it’s tragic and awful and fairly close to home for me.  A person in my office lost her father last month to COVID.  Is that what this is about, hitting a large number of deaths is justification for banning legal activity in another State?  If so, what was the triggering number?
> 
> If we want prevent COVID from coming into CA, we need to lock it down, we need real quarantines, not just kiddie soccer ones?  How many truck drivers do you think cross in and out of CA every single day?  And people want to talk about a 1,000 families (if that) from CA traveling for youth sports like it is somehow the difference maker to ending this pandemic?  CA truck stops along I10 have see more out of state truckers in a month than Reach 11 will see in a year and I'm sure you've seen all the precautions they're taking to prevent the spread of COVID.  That is just one of many truck routes into the State.
> 
> I hear you when you say it has to be realistic and attainable.  Why is it not?  There is a whole industry out there because CA already has greater restrictions on the number of axles, etc.  I see huge opportunity here for the industry to expand increasing employment opportunity, not only in CA but in bordering States, consisting of CA truckers at the borders dropping off loads leaving CA and taking over loads entering CA where the delivery of those goods that are perishable, cannot wait, or even where the shipper or end consumer doesn't want to wait for a quarantine period.  Is there an economic impact, yes, but what is compared to dragging this nonsense we're going through along endlessly?  As it is right now, to my knowledge, truckers are only asked if they have any symptoms and if they say they're not, they are allowed to proceed.


Isn’t there a distinction between essential travel (truck drivers) and non-essential travel (leisure/recreation... I.e tournaments)?  Restrictions on travel are thus differentiated from restrictions on out of state activities.  Net effect, however, is the same.


----------



## watfly

Grace T. said:


> Cheerleading was always in the yellow tier if indoors.  I guess CIF is saying its impractical to move either basketball or cheerleading outdoors....true?  I thought the entire big Florida cheer competition took place outdoors...at least that's what Netflix tells me?


Yeah, I assume sideline cheerleading is OK (even though there is nothing to cheer for).  Competitive cheerleading is typically indoors, but easily moved outdoors.  Hopefully the cheer squads will lobby for that.


----------



## 46n2

Thank you for your kind words, but have you seen the schedule or are you just speculating that its water down , just curious where the science is in your thought.
We're a top club and still attending .


----------



## happy9

46n2 said:


> Oh Im not offended honey, Im just tired of people.  Once the sun sets again and teams can play regularly , alot of you will get off your little imaginary plane ride and realize that during this break all of the top team have been staying quiet and working and will again sweep each team like they have pre covid....(even during)
> 
> I found your post hilarious thats all,
> 
> *1 Just to be clear you opt'ed out because of no competition or schedules* ????.
> 
> *2. How do you know who's playing.
> 
> 3.  Who's the real Karen here.
> 
> 4.  Too say a bold statement like that you must have a amazing team thats got more hardware then anyone else in the past 3 year?
> 
> 5.  worst yet , your coach probably fed you that line .*


1.  Yes to both
2  We know know who's not playing, and it's not the "best of the best", 
3.  You
4.  We haven't won any hardware, it's usualy won by the mighty socal teams or the powerhouses of TX, CO, GA
5.  I hardly ever talk to the coaches, they coach, my kids play, I watch.  Normally we are CA twice a month, this year not so much, you are here every weekend.  Coaches really don't have time to talk to us.


----------



## MrCruett

N00B said:


> They have articles on that site.... just thought the articles were promotion pieces to drive traffic from such hard hitting sources as Yahoo.


There definitely some very reliable hard hitting pieces on that site.


----------



## happy9

46n2 said:


> Thank you for your kind words, but have you seen the schedule or are you just speculating that its water down , just curious where the science is in your thought.
> We're a top club and still attending .


Clarify science and thought.  We likely agree on the topic of science, soccer, and the virus.  We likely disagree on making choices based on information available.  That's where we would agree to disagree.  Again, safe travels, the weather will be lovely.


----------



## 46n2

I look forward to watching my kids play, will you be watching games?


----------



## DFTibor

N00B said:


> Isn’t there a distinction between essential travel (truck drivers) and non-essential travel (leisure/recreation... I.e tournaments)?  Restrictions on travel are thus differentiated from restrictions on out of state activities.  Net effect, however, is the same.


Yes, there is a distinction in the guidance.  My point is I don't believe a State has the authority nor should have the authority to legislate my conduct when I am outside of its boundaries and conducting myself lawfully within the State I'm visiting or residing in.  If we're going to go to that length to combat this virus in the name of preventing further introduction of COVID into the State, then the more appropriate measure is a mandatory quarantine period for all travelers coming into the State regardless of purpose.


----------



## Lavey29

EOTL said:


> 300,000 people are dead and another 3,000 plus every day. Not 14 like you claim.  People aren’t dying odd heartburn and other “comorbidities” at catastrophic numbers as you claim.
> 
> Suck it up buttercup. It’s no wonder so many kids are having a hard time. There are a lot of parents like you out there who would prefer to whine and wallow in self pity instead of finding ways to keep you children moving forward. I can’t imagine having to live in a house with a dad who spends all his time complaining about how everything is someone else’s fault. Woe is you.


Such a tough little sheep from behind his keyboard  locked away in his bubble. I guarantee he does not even have any children involved in youth soccer yet on here 24/7 belittling everyone.  What a complete tool desperate for attention trying to feel important and most certainly the smartest sheep in the room.


----------



## EOTL

DFTibor said:


> Let me try again on the framing, I agree it was a bit broad.  This is an issue of CA prohibiting its citizens from going somewhere else to play a sport (soccer as it concerns us in this forum) where people will gather but also where it is legal in an effort to reduce the spread of COVID 19 during a global pandemic.
> 
> It's power reach that is the issue, not the fact that it impacts kiddie soccer, and it is that power reach that interferes with issues of interstate commerce, contracts, and substantive due process.  *Can you think of any regulation where one State prohibits its residents from participating in lawful activity while they’re in another State?*
> 
> I think you’d agree with me that the State has a legitimate and compelling public interest in protecting the health and safety of its citizens, whether it is a global pandemic, local epidemic, or even noon on a Tuesday, right?  For that reason I disagree that it matters for purposes of precedent setting whether this particular pandemic is a distinguishing context for such a reach.  The distinguishing thing here is the reach itself in trying to combat a virus when compared to other pandemics.
> 
> Someone on this thread mentioned  STD’s being down.  So here’s an example.  Sexually transmitted infections (STIs) are an enormous health crisis and is also categorized as a global pandemic, one we’ve been in for decades.  I’m not 50 and I remember the hysteria of the AIDS epidemic in the 80s.  Americans report approximately 20 million new STIs to the CDC every year and it is rising.  Certain STIs are linked to cancer, not curable, and new cases of STIs are disproportionately high in people aged 15-24 who are the most sexually active (i.e. people spreading the disease) and do not treat because they are more often uninsured and the symptoms often don’t present until more serious health conditions arise.  Sound familiar?  Yet it is undisputed that *all* STIs are preventable and for this reason prostitution is illegal in CA.   *BUT,* there is no law or regulation prohibiting Californians from hiring prostitutes while in certain counties in Nevada or abroad where it is legal.  Why not?  Similarly Los Angeles County a few years ago, using the justification that porn actors were spreading STIs into the community required the actors to wear condoms during filming in the County.  So the locations of filming moved outside the County.  If the justification is real, why the did the County not require all porn actors living in the County to always use protection when filming regardless of location?
> 
> Maybe it is because the positivity rate and death rate associated with STIs is within a range that is acceptable to society?  Maybe it is because they are transmitted through sexual acts instead of through the air, but still to unsuspecting citizens.  Those are ridiculous distinctions if the concern is about public health and eliminating a pandemic.  You say no one cares about kiddie soccer, well who the hell cares enough about dudes hiring prostitutes to keep such a ban off the books?
> 
> Yes 300,000 Americans have died and it’s tragic and awful and fairly close to home for me.  A person in my office lost her father last month to COVID.  Is that what this is about, hitting a large number of deaths is justification for banning legal activity in another State?  If so, what was the triggering number?
> 
> If we want prevent COVID from coming into CA, we need to lock it down, we need real quarantines, not just kiddie soccer ones?  How many truck drivers do you think cross in and out of CA every single day?  And people want to talk about a 1,000 families (if that) from CA traveling for youth sports like it is somehow the difference maker to ending this pandemic?  CA truck stops along I10 have see more out of state truckers in a month than Reach 11 will see in a year and I'm sure you've seen all the precautions they're taking to prevent the spread of COVID.  That is just one of many truck routes into the State.
> 
> I hear you when you say it has to be realistic and attainable.  Why is it not?  There is a whole industry out there because CA already has greater restrictions on the number of axles, etc.  I see huge opportunity here for the industry to expand increasing employment opportunity, not only in CA but in bordering States, consisting of CA truckers at the borders dropping off loads leaving CA and taking over loads entering CA where the delivery of those goods that are perishable, cannot wait, or even where the shipper or end consumer doesn't want to wait for a quarantine period.  Is there an economic impact, yes, but what is compared to dragging this nonsense we're going through along endlessly?  As it is right now, to my knowledge, truckers are only asked if they have any symptoms and if they say they're not, they are allowed to proceed.


Somebody’s so angry they couldn’t stop writing. No, CA probably cannot keep someone from doing stupid things out of state. But it certainly has many legal tools make your life miserable when you return. It could make you quarantine and arrest your ass if you didn’t. A city could potentially take away a club’s business license for violating regulations as rumor has it Santa Clara has done. Presumably the state could implement regs that do the same. CA  has every right to take action against idiots wjo try to endanger its responsible citizens. 

But, mostly, it can punish you by keeping schools, restaurants, bars, etc. closed, and ruin your kid’s ability to get recruited by collegesor even play soccer for less than $500 a weekend for as long as it takes for you to get the point, which you never will. So your punishment is that it costs you $500 for your kid to play soccer until a vaccine is widely available.


----------



## Messi>CR7

Kante said:


> Here's the 16 page NFHSA Medical Advisory Committee guidance published back in the fall - https://nfhs.org/media/3812287/2020-nfhs-guidance-for-opening-up-high-school-athletics-and-activities-nfhs-smac-may-15_2020-final.pdf
> 
> Below are their definitions and, importantly, criteria for grouping the sports into different tiers (which is the minimum the gov owes the players and the families)
> 
> per NFHSA, soccer is moderate risk i.e. should be red tier.
> 
> Almost every state - including WA and OR - California is following their guidance, but not California.


@Kante, you're too logical for these discussions.    (BTW, I miss reading your boys game prediction/analysis).  Imagine the shitstorm governor will receive if he puts soccer in the moderate tier and his daughter gets to play club soccer before high school football is allowed.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Hello, hello, hello...echo.  Too funny.


----------



## MacDre

DFTibor said:


> Let me try again on the framing, I agree it was a bit broad.  This is an issue of CA prohibiting its citizens from going somewhere else to play a sport (soccer as it concerns us in this forum) where people will gather but also where it is legal in an effort to reduce the spread of COVID 19 during a global pandemic.
> 
> It's power reach that is the issue, not the fact that it impacts kiddie soccer, and it is that power reach that interferes with issues of interstate commerce, contracts, and substantive due process.  *Can you think of any regulation where one State prohibits its residents from participating in lawful activity while they’re in another State?*
> 
> I think you’d agree with me that the State has a legitimate and compelling public interest in protecting the health and safety of its citizens, whether it is a global pandemic, local epidemic, or even noon on a Tuesday, right?  For that reason I disagree that it matters for purposes of precedent setting whether this particular pandemic is a distinguishing context for such a reach.  The distinguishing thing here is the reach itself in trying to combat a virus when compared to other pandemics.
> 
> Someone on this thread mentioned  STD’s being down.  So here’s an example.  Sexually transmitted infections (STIs) are an enormous health crisis and is also categorized as a global pandemic, one we’ve been in for decades.  I’m not 50 and I remember the hysteria of the AIDS epidemic in the 80s.  Americans report approximately 20 million new STIs to the CDC every year and it is rising.  Certain STIs are linked to cancer, not curable, and new cases of STIs are disproportionately high in people aged 15-24 who are the most sexually active (i.e. people spreading the disease) and do not treat because they are more often uninsured and the symptoms often don’t present until more serious health conditions arise.  Sound familiar?  Yet it is undisputed that *all* STIs are preventable and for this reason prostitution is illegal in CA.   *BUT,* there is no law or regulation prohibiting Californians from hiring prostitutes while in certain counties in Nevada or abroad where it is legal.  Why not?  Similarly Los Angeles County a few years ago, using the justification that porn actors were spreading STIs into the community required the actors to wear condoms during filming in the County.  So the locations of filming moved outside the County.  If the justification is real, why the did the County not require all porn actors living in the County to always use protection when filming regardless of location?
> 
> Maybe it is because the positivity rate and death rate associated with STIs is within a range that is acceptable to society?  Maybe it is because they are transmitted through sexual acts instead of through the air, but still to unsuspecting citizens.  Those are ridiculous distinctions if the concern is about public health and eliminating a pandemic.  You say no one cares about kiddie soccer, well who the hell cares enough about dudes hiring prostitutes to keep such a ban off the books?
> 
> Yes 300,000 Americans have died and it’s tragic and awful and fairly close to home for me.  A person in my office lost her father last month to COVID.  Is that what this is about, hitting a large number of deaths is justification for banning legal activity in another State?  If so, what was the triggering number?
> 
> If we want prevent COVID from coming into CA, we need to lock it down, we need real quarantines, not just kiddie soccer ones?  How many truck drivers do you think cross in and out of CA every single day?  And people want to talk about a 1,000 families (if that) from CA traveling for youth sports like it is somehow the difference maker to ending this pandemic?  CA truck stops along I10 have see more out of state truckers in a month than Reach 11 will see in a year and I'm sure you've seen all the precautions they're taking to prevent the spread of COVID.  That is just one of many truck routes into the State.
> 
> I hear you when you say it has to be realistic and attainable.  Why is it not?  There is a whole industry out there because CA already has greater restrictions on the number of axles, etc.  I see huge opportunity here for the industry to expand increasing employment opportunity, not only in CA but in bordering States, consisting of CA truckers at the borders dropping off loads leaving CA and taking over loads entering CA where the delivery of those goods that are perishable, cannot wait, or even where the shipper or end consumer doesn't want to wait for a quarantine period.  Is there an economic impact, yes, but what is compared to dragging this nonsense we're going through along endlessly?  As it is right now, to my knowledge, truckers are only asked if they have any symptoms and if they say they're not, they are allowed to proceed.


Compelling analysis but I think we just frame issues differently.  I don’t see a power grab or a prohibition on out of state activities.  I do see an order that attempts to keep folks from circumventing orders issued by the State of California in hopes of reducing the spread of COVID.  The governor has gaffed a few times but I haven’t seen any evidence of him preventing out of state activity.  If you were governor, and wanted to save lives by preventing folks from circumventing orders issued to slow the spread of COVID, what would you do differently?

A complete lockdown is too extreme and would hurt all more than the current restrictions.  If we took the lockdown to the extreme and closed all ports (airports, seaports, international borders, and state lines) we would decimate small businesses and the economy.  Do you like can food? How would we distribute the vaccine with the airports closed? Do you really want to shut it all down?


----------



## happy9

46n2 said:


> I look forward to watching my kids play, will you be watching games?


I will not be watching games.  Great time of the year in AZ to head to the great outdoors.  We'll have plenty of soccer to watch come the second weekend JAN and beyond.  Crossing fingers that HS season commences for my oldest.  My youngest has opted out of HS t and will be taking part in friendlies until the club season in AZ kicks off again.


----------



## happy9

DFTibor said:


> Yes, there is a distinction in the guidance.  My point is I don't believe a State has the authority nor should have the authority to legislate my conduct when I am outside of its boundaries and conducting myself lawfully within the State I'm visiting or residing in.  If we're going to go to that length to combat this virus in the name of preventing further introduction of COVID into the State, then the more appropriate measure is a *mandatory quarantine period for all travelers coming into the State regardless of purpose.*


It's a line few if any governments are willing to cross.  That's where civil liberties, the constitution, ect come into play.  People have to be convinced, based on common sense policy, to do the right thing.  Arbitrary words with lack of  believable science to back things up just pisses people off, especially business owners. There's no enforcement appetite for it other than some politician spewing off at the mouth of how he/she is going to save everyone. 

NYC has tried variations of it all summer long and just as recent as NOV.  Checkpoints along bridges and train points of entry.  It generated headlines but that's about it.  Didn't work, won't work, not gonna work.  The virus is going to spread.  I tell you what's about to work in NYC, a snowstorm.  At least for a few days anyway.  

The only way to force people to not travel outside of the state is to go after organizations that are participating or encouraging people to travel outside of the state.  

Crazy times.


----------



## happy9

46n2 said:


> Thank you for your kind words, but have you seen the schedule or are you just speculating that its water down , just curious where the science is in your thought.
> We're a top club and still attending .


I don't know if I have to see a schedule.  I should be able to rely on my club to surmise that the teams we normally play are not going and the teams that we would like to play are not going.  So I guess science isn't being applied.   Clubs have relationships, they talk.  Logistically, Surf is easy for me and many in our club.  Reach and SSC are less than 20 mins for many.  The eastern fields are a haul but we would be playing at Reach.  

If you are a strong team, and other traditionally strong teams in your age group/league aren't going, then the play on the field is going to be different than what you are used to.


----------



## notintheface

MacDre said:


> If you were governor, and wanted to save lives by preventing folks from circumventing orders issued to slow the spread of COVID, what would you do differently?


Quoted for truth.


----------



## ITFC Blues

notintheface said:


> On this, we can agree. You might also change "week" into "August", but hey.
> 
> We're 12 days out from Surf Youngers and no schedule posted. There are definitely tournaments that hold off until the last minute, but Surf are running out of time for coach conflicts, parent scheduling ("do we make the drive early Sunday or late Saturday night"), etc. I'd be getting nervous for my $1400 right about now.


This is on the surf cup site now:  

Submitting an application does not guarantee acceptance; *Notwithstanding the foregoing, if a governmental order cancels the event or prevents your team from traveling to the event, you will receive a full refund minus any credit card processing transaction fee*


----------



## dad4

happy9 said:


> It's a line few if any governments are willing to cross.  That's where civil liberties, the constitution, ect come into play.  People have to be convinced, based on common sense policy, to do the right thing.  Arbitrary words with lack of  believable science to back things up just pisses people off, especially business owners. There's no enforcement appetite for it other than some politician spewing off at the mouth of how he/she is going to save everyone.
> 
> NYC has tried variations of it all summer long and just as recent as NOV.  Checkpoints along bridges and train points of entry.  It generated headlines but that's about it.  Didn't work, won't work, not gonna work.  The virus is going to spread.  I tell you what's about to work in NYC, a snowstorm.  At least for a few days anyway.
> 
> The only way to force people to not travel outside of the state is to go after organizations that are participating or encouraging people to travel outside of the state.
> 
> Crazy times.


New Mexico and Hawaii also had quarantine restrictions on anyone arriving from out of state.  it seemed to be a reasonable response to a bad situation.  It also seemed to help.  

I’m not convinced that better science would help.  There is plenty of good science that shows that bars and restaurants spread covid.  But people don’t want to believe it, so they cover their ears and say that there is no proof.


----------



## happy9

MacDre said:


> If you were governor, and wanted to save lives by preventing folks from circumventing orders issued to slow the spread of COVID, what would you do differently?


Compelling question and very easy to armchair quarterback.  Since this is a soccer forum, he should have modeled what other states did to support youth sports.  Plenty of models to follow.  I'm sure some where enacted by friends of Gavi.  NJ comes to come, playing tournaments in early summer.  Places like Maryland, MA had procedures, systems in place that allowed for sports to continue.  I bet you would have played with masks on, like they do in MA.  A smart, regionally based approach to youth sports would have cut down drastically on travel to AZ to play soccer.  Now, with that said, I don't think travelling to AZ has anything to do with current Covid trends, but that's another topic to discuss.  

So, within our narrow view (soccer), the government of california should have been able to come up with a viable plan to support kids in the state.

Imagine all the time people wouldn't have spent on here talking about not playing soccer.  

So yea, complete shutdown is dumb (like you stated).


----------



## Grace T.

MacDre said:


> A complete lockdown is too extreme and would hurt all more than the current restrictions.  If we took the lockdown to the extreme and closed all ports (airports, seaports, international borders, and state lines) we would decimate small businesses and the economy.  Do you like can food? How would we distribute the vaccine with the airports closed? Do you really want to shut it all down?


The problem is that short of a full scale Australian lockdown, the limited lockdown, distancing, and mask interventions seem to help only minimally.  In the most recent months, if you compare region over region in the US, the curves all follow the same pattern regardless of government policy.  That means we are placing a huge cost (hurting kids, hurting small businesses, causing people to go unemployed) for not a whole lot of benefit.  Such policies should have been reserved for the peaks of the initial wave and the current wave, instead of squandered over the summer when it did minimal good.


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> New Mexico and Hawaii also had quarantine restrictions on anyone arriving from out of state.  it seemed to be a reasonable response to a bad situation.  It also seemed to help.
> 
> I’m not convinced that better science would help.  There is plenty of good science that shows that bars and restaurants spread covid.  But people don’t want to believe it, so they cover their ears and say that there is no proof.


We were talking about Hawaii in the other thread.  It seems to have helped but at the crippling cost of a 7 month lockdown that absolutely brought down the economy of the state.  Then, when they could tolerate it no longer, the opened back up with policies that made no sense: a similar mess of education as Califoria, dining at 50% (you love that one don't you), and an airline policy that makes no sense because it means people can catch COVID on the airplane and then spread it at their hotels.  In retrospect, Hawaii would have been better off targeting its lockdowns to respond to particular waves, including the current one.  So as a result now they seem to be forced to give up a lot of the progress they had made.

Yes, there's plenty of evidence that bars and restaurants spread COVID.  The question is how much they spread COVID.  It's probably not enough to make a substantial difference.


----------



## dad4

Grace T. said:


> We were talking about Hawaii in the other thread.  It seems to have helped but at the crippling cost of a 7 month lockdown that absolutely brought down the economy of the state.  Then, when they could tolerate it no longer, the opened back up with policies that made no sense: a similar mess of education as Califoria, dining at 50% (you love that one don't you), and an airline policy that makes no sense because it means people can catch COVID on the airplane and then spread it at their hotels.  In retrospect, Hawaii would have been better off targeting its lockdowns to respond to particular waves, including the current one.  So as a result now they seem to be forced to give up a lot of the progress they had made.
> 
> Yes, there's plenty of evidence that bars and restaurants spread COVID.  The question is how much they spread COVID.  It's probably not enough to make a substantial difference.


if bars and restaurants were a weak source of covid spread, it would not have been so easy to prove the connection.

bars, restaurants, casinos, dinner parties.  It’s not that hard to figure out.  Anything with enclosed shared air space.  Why make things worse by saying known major sources are minor?  We have hound for that.


----------



## dad4

Grace T. said:


> The problem is that short of a full scale Australian lockdown, the limited lockdown, distancing, and mask interventions seem to help only minimally.  In the most recent months, if you compare region over region in the US, the curves all follow the same pattern regardless of government policy.  That means we are placing a huge cost (hurting kids, hurting small businesses, causing people to go unemployed) for not a whole lot of benefit.  Such policies should have been reserved for the peaks of the initial wave and the current wave, instead of squandered over the summer when it did minimal good.


That’s because you’re looking at the shape of the curve and ignoring the scale.

San Francisco has had about 2% of people get infected.  LA has had about 5%.  Oregon has had 2.2%.  North Dakota has had about 11.5%

They only look the same if you think 2=11.


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> That’s because you’re looking at the shape of the curve and ignoring the scale.
> 
> San Francisco has had about 2% of people get infected.  LA has had about 5%.  Oregon has had 2.2%.  North Dakota has had about 11.5%
> 
> They only look the same if you think 2=11.


You can't compare California/Oregon and North Dakota.  You can compare North Dakota to South Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa and even Illinois.


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> if bars and restaurants were a weak source of covid spread, it would not have been so easy to prove the connection.
> 
> bars, restaurants, casinos, dinner parties.  It’s not that hard to figure out.  Anything with enclosed shared air space.  Why make things worse by saying known major sources are minor?  We have hound for that.


Because we're back to in Los Angeles between masks/restaurant dining closed, we shouldn't be in this place. 

And as for "anything with enclosed shared air space" is an argument for grounding the air fleets.


----------



## Grace T.

Grace T. said:


> You can't compare California/Oregon and North Dakota.  You can compare North Dakota to South Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa and even Illinois.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339061197107130374


----------



## N00B

dad4 said:


> bars, restaurants, casinos, dinner parties.


This sounds more like the ‘bad news’ thread... but it’s off topic now so...

Can we drop casinos from this list as I believe they operate on sovereign land?  

Likewise with ‘dinner parties’, unless ‘dinner parties’ is a reference to Thanksgiving and the Holiday Season, I don’t think either side of this discussion argue against transmission being prevalent within the home.


----------



## dad4

Grace T. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339061197107130374


They line up nicely.  Now take a look at the area under each of those curves:

11.5,
10.3
8.1
7.7
7.5
6.8

Not at all the same.  Despite very similar demographics, economies, and climate, the worst state has almost 70% more cases than the best one.
Something is different.   (This is what I meant by thinking in precalc versus thinking in differential equations.)

Your twitter source is clueless, by the way.  North Dakota is in decline only because they ran out of new people to infect.  He seems to think it is a badge of honor.


----------



## dad4

N00B said:


> This sounds more like the ‘bad news’ thread... but it’s off topic now so...
> 
> Can we drop casinos from this list as I believe they operate on sovereign land?
> 
> Likewise with ‘dinner parties’, unless ‘dinner parties’ is a reference to Thanksgiving and the Holiday Season, I don’t think either side of this discussion argue against transmission being prevalent within the home.


Why exclude casinos?  Does the virus know when it is on sovereign land?  Does it hop out of your body as you leave the parking lot?

Sorry.  This one is a shared problem.  Native Americans can do their part to share in the solution.


----------



## Grace T.

Grace T. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339061197107130374


Or if you prefer the mid west


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332810306062606340


dad4 said:


> They line up nicely.  Now take a look at the area under each of those curves:
> 
> 11.5,
> 10.3
> 8.1
> 7.7
> 7.5
> 6.8
> 
> Not at all the same.  Despite very similar demographics, economies, and climate, the worst state has almost 70% more cases than the best one.
> Something is different.   (This is what I meant by thinking in precalc versus thinking in differential equations.)
> 
> Your twitter source is clueless, by the way.  North Dakota is in decline only because they ran out of new people to infect.  He seems to think it is a badge of honor.


But that's exactly the point!   Assuming there are no other variables and the difference between the largest/smallest areas were purely government policy (and it's not because the real opened up state in this model is South Dakota), best case scenario for the lost businesses, torturing children, forcing everyone to wear a mask, lost employment is this difference.  The difference is NOT 11.5 and 0....it's NOT let's just close businesses/schools/sports and mask up and we won't have a disaster.   The cost/benefit that needs to take place is what degree the government policy reduces the spread v. the cost from enacting such policy.

Your point about only North Dakota running out of people is also false on its face.  They all inflected within a week of each other regardless of government policy or overall numbers confirmed.


----------



## dad4

Grace T. said:


> Or if you prefer the mid west
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332810306062606340
> 
> But that's exactly the point!   Assuming there are no other variables and the difference between the largest/smallest areas were purely government policy (and it's not because the real opened up state in this model is South Dakota), best case scenario for the lost businesses, torturing children, forcing everyone to wear a mask, lost employment is this difference.  The difference is NOT 11.5 and 0....it's NOT let's just close businesses/schools/sports and mask up and we won't have a disaster.   The cost/benefit that needs to take place is what degree the government policy reduces the spread v. the cost from enacting such policy.
> 
> Your point about only North Dakota running out of people is also false on its face.  They all inflected within a week of each other regardless of government policy or overall numbers confirmed.


The cost differential between MN and ND was 1.69 to 1.  How do you ignore a 69% increase in cost when you are doing cost benefit analysis?

Your point is that the date of the peak doesn’t change much.  But the height of the peak absolutely did change.

That’s part of what NPI does.  Lowering the transmission rate lowers the height of your peak.  You hit herd immunity at a lower level.  It’s right there in the mathematical models you mock, and it is showing up in the morgues in the Dakotas.


----------



## N00B

dad4 said:


> Why exclude casinos?  Does the virus know when it is on sovereign land?  Does it hop out of your body as you leave the parking lot?
> 
> Sorry.  This one is a shared problem.  Native Americans can do their part to share in the solution.


Because we’re in the Surf Cup’s Fate thread and while it sounds like the ‘Bad News’ thread (guessing the armistice is tenuous at this point), the discussion was about policy relative to Surf Cup (hence the reclassification to ‘off-topic’). Since casinos on sovereign land can’t be dictated to by state policy, it seems reasonable to exclude them from the conversation.

If your commenting on poor decision making by the public, no argument.


----------



## Grace T.

N00B said:


> Because we’re in the Surf Cup’s Fate thread and while it sounds like the ‘Bad News’ thread (guessing the armistice is tenuous at this point), the discussion was about policy relative to Surf Cup (hence the reclassification to ‘off-topic’). Since casinos on sovereign land can’t be dictated to by state policy, it seems reasonable to exclude them from the conversation.
> 
> If your commenting on poor decision making by the public, no argument.


The off topic zone is a no mans land of politics, crazy talk, covid, trolls and ad hominems. No one likes to go there.


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> The cost differential between MN and ND was 1.69 to 1.  How do you ignore a 69% increase in cost when you are doing cost benefit analysis?
> 
> Your point is that the date of the peak doesn’t change much.  But the height of the peak absolutely did change.
> 
> That’s part of what NPI does.  Lowering the transmission rate lowers the height of your peak.  You hit herd immunity at a lower level.  It’s right there in the mathematical models you mock, and it is showing up in the morgues in the Dakotas.


there’s some but not a whole lot of correlation in the peaks either if you want to shift to peaks. California’s for example looks to be smaller than Arizona (and at enormous cost) both times but Minnesota’s is higher than Iowa (which until very recently was almost as bad of an actor as North Dakota); North Dakota > South Dakota; California > Florida; Rhode Island > New York among others.


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> Why exclude casinos?  Does the virus know when it is on sovereign land?  Does it hop out of your body as you leave the parking lot?
> 
> Sorry.  This one is a shared problem.  *Native Americans can do their part to share in the solution.*


Dad, they already shared all the land.  Let them bee.  They know what the truth is, trust me.  They been dealing with liars for a very long time.....


----------



## dad4

Grace T. said:


> The off topic zone is a no mans land of politics, crazy talk, covid, trolls and ad hominems. No one likes to go there.


If no one likes to go there, why do we keep going there?


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Grace T. said:


> The off topic zone is a no mans land of politics, crazy talk, covid, trolls and ad hominems. No one likes to go there.





dad4 said:


> If no one likes to go there, why do we keep going there?


I fixed it.

The off topic zone is a no mans land of politics, crazy talk, covid, trolls and ad hominems. No one likes Sane people don't like to go there.


----------



## MacDre

Grace T. said:


> The problem is that short of a full scale Australian lockdown, the limited lockdown, distancing, and mask interventions seem to help only minimally.  In the most recent months, if you compare region over region in the US, the curves all follow the same pattern regardless of government policy.  That means we are placing a huge cost (hurting kids, hurting small businesses, causing people to go unemployed) for not a whole lot of benefit.  Such policies should have been reserved for the peaks of the initial wave and the current wave, instead of squandered over the summer when it did minimal good.


Not fair.  You are Monday night quarterbacking.  Hindsight is 20/20

I guess I just frame issues differently.  I see the orders as an attempt to choose the lesser of the 2 evils.  I think a complete shutdown would be catastrophic for small businesses.  Maybe there is only marginal benefit regarding the current order but I think it’s a balancing act and better than imposing maximum pain via complete lockdown.


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> Not fair.  You are Monday night quarterbacking.  Hindsight is 20/20
> 
> I guess I just frame issues differently.  I see the orders as an attempt to choose the lesser of the 2 evils.  I think a complete shutdown would be catastrophic for small businesses.  Maybe there is only marginal benefit regarding the current order but I think it’s a balancing act and better than imposing maximum pain via complete lockdown.


Small biz is already in catastrophic waters.  Just looking for a life boat to, "help, help, help me, please help my small biz."  No, just a harbor patrol health boat going around giving out finds.  All these small mom & pops are in big need and are taking on too much and will sink.


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> Not fair.  You are Monday night quarterbacking.  Hindsight is 20/20
> 
> I guess I just frame issues differently.  I see the orders as an attempt to choose the lesser of the 2 evils.  I think a complete shutdown would be catastrophic for small businesses.  Maybe there is only marginal benefit regarding the current order but I think it’s a balancing act and better than imposing maximum pain via complete lockdown.


----------



## jimlewis

MacDre said:


> Not fair.  You are Monday night quarterbacking.  Hindsight is 20/20
> 
> I guess I just frame issues differently.  I see the orders as an attempt to choose the lesser of the 2 evils.  I think a complete shutdown would be catastrophic for small businesses.  Maybe there is only marginal benefit regarding the current order but I think it’s a balancing act and better than imposing maximum pain via complete lockdown.


The Thanksgiving "surge on a surge" should be here any day now....


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

crush said:


> Small biz is already in catastrophic waters.  Just looking for a life boat to, "help, help, help me, please help my small biz."  No, just a harbor patrol health boat going around giving out finds.  All these small mom & pops are in big need and are taking on too much and will sink.


The biggest mistake was to give every eligible adult the $1,200 free check back in April.    They could have given to those who lost their job or to small businesses.   I know of several college students that grabbed that money to spend it on bikes, clothes, and las Vegas.      California should let all small businesses open up to 50% capacity and the Walmart’s of the world to 25% capacity.


----------



## dad4

jimlewis said:


> The Thanksgiving "surge on a surge" should be here any day now....


My hospital is down to 2 ICU beds.  My county‘s daily case rate is 2000% of their case rate in mid October.  No, that’s not a typo.  We went from 70 to 1400.

That’s enough of a surge for me, thanks.  What are you waiting for before you are willing to say it’s a problem?


----------



## dad4

crush said:


> View attachment 9694


If I understand it right, @MacDre actually does play, and you and I are the armchair QBs.

Nothing wrong with that.  You want Fauci for your fantasy league team?  Or you gonna go with Atlas?


----------



## AGINAZ

Remember when this thread was about Surf Cup?

Those were good times...


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> If I understand it right, @MacDre actually does play, and you and I are the armchair QBs.
> 
> Nothing wrong with that.  You want Fauci for your fantasy league team?  Or you gonna go with Atlas?


I get you and EOTL now.  This is some game with our lives were all playing.  You have a job as a teacher for life and on here teaching us when you should be helping the kiddos with math.  Interesting job you got.  I know most of the teaching hours are way better then those banking hours in the past.  My dd will get up in two more hours.  BTW, this fantasy game that the 1% and their puppets have been playing with our lives and the military lives will soon end pal.  I mean that 100%.  I would take the Arm Services for my first pick in the draft.  You can have all the health pros you loser!!!! Hahhahahahaha.  Not you a loser personally, only those who cheated and hurt others so they can have all the power.  I get Seal Team 6, all the other Seals, Green Berit, Special Ops, NSA, Jets, bombers and all the troops.  The police and sheriff falls with the military as well.  Enjoy Dr F and all his pals. You can have Jack, Mark, the other Mark and all the other smart dudes.  Plus, take all the media and Hollywood with you.  Good luck bro.  It's not too late to repent and go to the winning side.   God & Country!!!!  Nothing like Apple Pie and a Chevy.  Made in America.  America, the land of the free and home of the brave.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

dad4 said:


> My hospital is down to 2 ICU beds.  My county‘s daily case rate is 2000% of their case rate in mid October.  No, that’s not a typo.  We went from 70 to 1400.
> 
> That’s enough of a surge for me, thanks.  What are you waiting for before you are willing to say it’s a problem?


Don't be ungrateful for the size of the surge just yet. JB stated we would have 250,000 deaths in December. CDC Director Robert Redfield said 200,000. It's not over, but as of December 15th, we are sitting just under 36K. It sounds like they were expecting a bigger surge.


----------



## Chalklines

Has surf been canceled yet?


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> If I understand it right, @MacDre actually does play, and you and I are the armchair QBs.
> 
> Nothing wrong with that.  You want Fauci for your fantasy league team?  Or you gonna go with Atlas?


Has he played, "I started a business from scratch, rolled the dice and hit 7 only to see others close me down and now I lost everything I worked my ass off for?"  Based on Dre, he worked as DA or with the DA but now works in higher education.  He has a goat he drives down to TJ all the time to play soccer from Nocal.  His wife is in the health profession.  I see Dre opening up his own charter school and helping others improve their lot in life.


----------



## Grace T.

MacDre said:


> Not fair.  You are Monday night quarterbacking.  Hindsight is 20/20
> 
> I guess I just frame issues differently.  I see the orders as an attempt to choose the lesser of the 2 evils.  I think a complete shutdown would be catastrophic for small businesses.  Maybe there is only marginal benefit regarding the current order but I think it’s a balancing act and better than imposing maximum pain via complete lockdown.


It would be if I hadn't been advocating the same all along.


----------



## dad4

kickingandscreaming said:


> Don't be ungrateful for the size of the surge just yet. JB stated we would have 250,000 deaths in December. CDC Director Robert Redfield said 200,000. It's not over, but as of December 15th, we are sitting just under 36K. It sounds like they were expecting a bigger surge.


Oh, they were expecting a larger surge.  I had read the forecasts as December + January, not just December.  Either way, we are still under.   

Part of the pattern is they announce a “current path” estimate, in the hopes that we wake up and get off that path.

In this case, it partially worked.  Many of us changed our behavior.  I can’t fault them for that.


----------



## MacDre

SoccerFan4Life said:


> California should let all small businesses open up to 50% capacity and the Walmart’s of the world to 25% capacity.


Not sure about Socal but I think generally speaking the Bay Area is very hostile towards big box stores and supports mom and pop shops.  For example look at places like Marin and Berkeley and the complete absence of big box stores.  Also, around 10 years ago Hercules made national new by using eminent domain to take the property Walmart had purchased for development.  Walmart in East Oakland by the Oakland airport closed within 5 years of opening.


----------



## dawson

Chalklines said:


> Has surf been canceled yet?


don’t think they address that topic here anymore


----------



## happy9

dawson said:


> don’t think they address that topic here anymore


What's surf?


----------



## kickingandscreaming

dad4 said:


> Oh, they were expecting a larger surge.  I had read the forecasts as December + January, not just December.  Either way, we are still under.
> 
> Part of the pattern is they announce a “current path” estimate, in the hopes that we wake up and get off that path.
> 
> In this case, it partially worked.  Many of us changed our behavior.  I can’t fault them for that.


I love it!!! Call it big, and if you get it wrong, claim you scared them into doing better! You can't lose when people are so easily manipulated. Genius!!!


----------



## dad4

dawson said:


> don’t think they address that topic here anymore


Surf?  What is there to discuss?  85% of us have backed out.  15% are going to wait for the fat lady to sing.  Of course, she has covid, so the finale is delayed.

If you want to talk Surf, let’s talk about Del Mar in August or November.


----------



## MSK357

dad4 said:


> Surf?  What is there to discuss?  85% of us have backed out.  15% are going to wait for the fat lady to sing.  Of course, she has covid, so the finale is delayed.
> 
> If you want to talk Surf, let’s talk about Del Mar in August or November.


who are the 85% and who are the 15%? or is this your opinion?


----------



## Yours in futbol

kickingandscreaming said:


> Don't be ungrateful for the size of the surge just yet. JB stated we would have 250,000 deaths in December. CDC Director Robert Redfield said 200,000. It's not over, but as of December 15th, we are sitting just under 36K. It sounds like they were expecting a bigger surge.


I believe Redfield said the death toll could be 200k in the months of December through the end of February, not just December. 

Based on your report that the US has suffered 36k deaths through just the first half of December so far .. do you still think they were predicting a bigger surge?  It seems as though we are sadly on track to meet Redfield's prediction unless we continue to introduce mitigation measures (e.g., vaccinations, mask mandates, restricted indoor activities, etc.).









						CDC Director: Winter Could Bring 200,000 Deaths, ‘Most Difficult’ Period Of US’s Public Health History
					

It doesn't have to be this way, warns Dr. Robert Redfield.




					www.forbes.com


----------



## whatithink

SoccerFan4Life said:


> The biggest mistake was to give every eligible adult the $1,200 free check back in April.    They could have given to those who lost their job or to small businesses.   I know of several college students that grabbed that money to spend it on bikes, clothes, and las Vegas.      California should let all small businesses open up to 50% capacity and the Walmart’s of the world to 25% capacity.


They added $250B to unemployment payments. They gave $850B in PPP to businesses incl small businesses. The individual checks "only" totaled $300B, and obviously some of that went to those who didn't need it, some who desperately needed it and some who were somewhere in between.

Here's a good overview, The $2 trillion CARES Act, a response to COVID-19, is equivalent to 45% of all 2019 federal spending - USAFacts


----------



## dad4

MSK357 said:


> who are the 85% and who are the 15%? or is this your opinion?


Just watching the posts here.  So far, no one has said their club is going other than Surf and part of Blues.   

 Are you going?  If so, what club?


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Yours in futbol said:


> I believe Redfield said the death toll could be 200k in the months of December through the end of February, not just December.
> 
> Based on your report that the US has suffered 36k deaths through just the first half of December so far .. do you still think they were predicting a bigger surge?  It seems as though we are sadly on track to meet Redfield's prediction unless we continue to introduce mitigation measures (e.g., vaccinations, mask mandates, restricted indoor activities, etc.).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CDC Director: Winter Could Bring 200,000 Deaths, ‘Most Difficult’ Period Of US’s Public Health History
> 
> 
> It doesn't have to be this way, warns Dr. Robert Redfield.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com











						Biden Predicts 250,000 More Coronavirus Deaths, Urges Americans To Stay Home Over Holidays
					

You cannot be travelling during these holidays, as much as you want to,” the president-elect said.




					www.forbes.com
				




I have misread before, but didn't Redfield say 450,000 through the end of February?

"On Wednesday, Redfield said the U.S. could see 450,000 deaths over the next three months"


----------



## crush

whatithink said:


> They added $250B to unemployment payments. They gave $850B in PPP to businesses incl small businesses. The individual checks "only" totaled $300B, and obviously some of that went to those who didn't need it, some who desperately needed it and some who were somewhere in between.
> 
> Here's a good overview, The $2 trillion CARES Act, a response to COVID-19, is equivalent to 45% of all 2019 federal spending - USAFacts
> 
> View attachment 9695


*Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church received $4.4M COVID-19 PPP loan.  Isn;t that special!!!!

*


----------



## MSK357

dad4 said:


> Just watching the posts here.  So far, no one has said their club is going other than Surf and part of Blues.
> 
> Are you going?  If so, what club?


Im asking you.  You seem to know that 85% backed out.  that is a very specific percentage.  It gives the appearance that you know who have backed out of the number of teams accepted.  please share who those clubs are since you say they were posted here.  or else please clearly state its your assumption based on a few posts.


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> Just watching the posts here.  So far, no one has said their club is going other than *Surf and part of Blues. *
> 
> Are you going?  If so, what club?


Look, although they fight for market share like Arrowhead Spring Water and Sparkles Water, they help each other make money.  I'll play in your is if you play in mine.  I will steal your goat, just don't steal mine.  I will offer goat access and you can;t loser.  We play possession and you play kickball. How much you want for your biz?


----------



## watfly

dad4 said:


> Part of the pattern is they announce a “current path” estimate, in the hopes that we wake up and get off that path.


Aka "fear mongering".  Compliance through fear, one of the great leadership techniques.  I'm not sure that even works for churches.

Does anyone remember that story from when you were a kid about the "boy who cried wolf"?


----------



## crush

watfly said:


> Aka "fear mongering".  *Compliance through fear, one of the great leadership techniques.  I'm not sure that even works with churches.*
> 
> Does anyone remember that story from when you were a kid about the "boy who cried wolf"?


I'm here to say it does unfortunately.  I'm living proof.  I knew I had to experience hard core church for a reason.  I now know why now.  If you leave, you will be double the sinner that you were when you came to this find place of healing with control.  If you leave, you will be going to hell and because your the dad, your wife will go to hell because of your poor choice of leaving and the kids too, plus Oreo.  On top of all that, you better give 10% to guys like Joel so you can prosper like him and his wife.  We have lots to work on in this country.


----------



## dad4

kickingandscreaming said:


> Biden Predicts 250,000 More Coronavirus Deaths, Urges Americans To Stay Home Over Holidays
> 
> 
> You cannot be travelling during these holidays, as much as you want to,” the president-elect said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have misread before, but didn't Redfield say 450,000 through the end of February?
> 
> "On Wednesday, Redfield said the U.S. could see 450,000 deaths over the next three months"


I think he was saying the total could hit 450K by Feb.  60K per month for 3 months, plus those who have died already.

”However, accounting for an upwards trend gaining momentum through November, Redfield’s projection is that nearly 60,000 new deaths will be reported during each of the next three months, meaning just over 2,000 Americans will die each day.”


----------



## Lavey29

MSK357 said:


> who are the 85% and who are the 15%? or is this your opinion?


450 teams in the tournament so that is his 15%?   Lol....guess there was 3000 teams in the tournament originally according to his great statistical info.


----------



## dad4

MSK357 said:


> Im asking you.  You seem to know that 85% backed out.  that is a very specific percentage.  It gives the appearance that you know who have backed out of the number of teams accepted.  please share who those clubs are since you say they were posted here.  or else please clearly state its your assumption based on a few posts.


Have it your way.   A shit load of teams have backed out.  A few are still in.

Is your kid’s team going?


----------



## kickingandscreaming

kickingandscreaming said:


> Biden Predicts 250,000 More Coronavirus Deaths, Urges Americans To Stay Home Over Holidays
> 
> 
> You cannot be travelling during these holidays, as much as you want to,” the president-elect said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have misread before, but didn't Redfield say 450,000 through the end of February?
> 
> "On Wednesday, Redfield said the U.S. could see 450,000 deaths over the next three months"


It does appear that the two articles (both from Forbes) have different information included. While not necessarily conflicting, the numbers could obviously have used some context such as a range of values to better represent what Redfield was saying.

 I can't get to yours anymore due to a paywall, but I saw where he talked about 200,000 through the end of February and I went to the link I used originally on the 2nd. The 450,000 number was pretty crazy, though. I wouldn't have blinked if he predicted 200,000 through the end of February.


----------



## dad4

Lavey29 said:


> 450 teams in the tournament so that is his 15%?   Lol....guess there was 3000 teams in the tournament originally according to his great statistical info.


That 450 is after they called up every rejected team and offerred them a spot.  They still came up short.

Is your kid’s team going?  If so, what club?


----------



## kickingandscreaming

dad4 said:


> I think he was saying the total could hit 450K by Feb.  60K per month for 3 months, plus those who have died already.
> 
> ”However, accounting for an upwards trend gaining momentum through November, Redfield’s projection is that nearly 60,000 new deaths will be reported during each of the next three months, meaning just over 2,000 Americans will die each day.”


Different links with different information - both from Forbes and both on the 2nd. That's an odd way to report. However, the link I list definitely states the following, which does not indicate the 450K is cumulative.

"On Wednesday, Redfield said the U.S. could see 450,000 deaths over the next three months"

If the article I saw would have said he expected 200,000 over the next 3 months, I wouldn't have blinked. It could just be sloppy reporting.


----------



## watfly

whatithink said:


> The individual checks "only" totaled $300B, and obviously some of that went to those who didn't need it,


And because our California government is incompetent (particularly the EDD), $2 billion in Covid unemployment benefits went to prisoners and other non-qualified individuals and because our Federal government is incompetent unknown billions of PPP has gone to businesses that didn't qualify.









						California unemployment fraud amid COVID-19 pandemic may total $2 billion, Bank of America says
					

The bank, which has contracted with the state Employment Development Department to issue debit cards containing unemployment benefits, issued the warning in a letter to California legislators.




					www.latimes.com


----------



## crush

watfly said:


> And because our California government is incompetent (particularly the EDD), $2 billion in Covid unemployment benefits went to prisoners and other non-qualified individuals and because our Federal government is incompetent unknown billions of PPP has gone to businesses that didn't qualify.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California unemployment fraud amid COVID-19 pandemic may total $2 billion, Bank of America says
> 
> 
> The bank, which has contracted with the state Employment Development Department to issue debit cards containing unemployment benefits, issued the warning in a letter to California legislators.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.latimes.com


How about helping the Gym Guy?  Dang, these guys open up a gym to help with everyone's health and they want them shut down for good.  This is insane I say......


----------



## happy9

MSK357 said:


> who are the 85% and who are the 15%? or is this your opinion?


It's an opinion, likely stemming from accurate assumptions


MSK357 said:


> Im asking you.  You seem to know that 85% backed out.  that is a very specific percentage.  It gives the appearance that you know who have backed out of the number of teams accepted.  please share who those clubs are since you say they were posted here.  or else please clearly state its your assumption based on a few posts.


Haven't we  hashed this out about a gazillion posts before?  What's up with the requirement for surgical precision?  I thought this was  safe place to share information without the requirement to testify in front of congress. And please don't reply that misinformation is being provided, cuz it's not.  What you are getting is valid information from parents in those clubs that aren't going. 

We can likely say, without having to cite sources that most of the NORCAL ECNL/GA  teams aren't going.  None of the MLS next teams are going (theirNOV event was cancelled in Tucson).  Many of the SOCAL ECNL/GA teams aren't going - Surf is likely trying to send some team, but that's just them trying to carry the colors.  Blues sound like they are dropping most teams.  The AZ ECNL/GA teams aren't playing.

I know there is more to the soccer world than ECNL/GA/MLS, but for many it's the world we operate in.  I know Surf attracts many very good top clubs that are not affiliated with one of the silly letter leagues.  I have no idea, within that category, who is going and who has cancelled.  I suspect many have backed out. 

So yea, is Surf a go?  Don't know.  Will it look similar to what a normal Surf tournament looks like?  Nope.  If it happens, will your players play?  Sure.  Is it worth it?  Up to you.  If I were in your situation, would I go?  nope.


----------



## MacDre

dad4 said:


> Just watching the posts here.  So far, no one has said their club is going other than Surf and part of Blues.
> 
> Are you going?  If so, what club?


No, not going.  Don’t have a club name yet but I was thinking about calling the club Turf.  Our goal is to represent kids from the Bay Area trailer parks and ghettos.  Funny how OC has all those great schools but don’t produce any stars.  Oh yeah, did I mention that the white kids in Vallejo are “basket cases?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

crush said:


> *Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Church received $4.4M COVID-19 PPP loan.  Isn;t that special!!!!
> 
> View attachment 9696*











						Tom Brady catches heat for new $2 million boat amid Miami move
					

His company, TB12, received a hefty PPP loan.




					pagesix.com
				




Tom Brady also got a $1M+ loan even though he is worth $200M  SMH


----------



## Lavey29

dad4 said:


> That 450 is after they called up every rejected team and offerred them a spot.  They still came up short.
> 
> Is your kid’s team going?  If so, what club?


Once again you make statements without any supporting facts. Just got done speaking with a friend whose team did not get accepted . According to your logic how is this even possible? You stated they called up every rejected team to fill spots and still came up short. My conversation with a friend whose team was rejected confirms you are just spreading false and misleading info again.  I know big surprise right? You do a complete disservice to youth soccer on here and everyone should just ignore your meaningless posts.


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> No, not going.  Don’t have a club name yet but I was thinking about calling the club Turf.  Our goal is to represent kids from the Bay Area trailer parks and ghettos.  Funny how OC has all those great schools but don’t produce any stars.  Oh yeah, did I mention that the white kids in Vallejo are “basket cases?


Dre, OC is awesome and so is Nocal.  It doesn;t matter where a kid is from.  They need love and support bro.  Dont get fooled by those Hollywood shows about the OC.  This is the best place to live in America, MOO.  I love the name, Turf FC.  I can be, OC Crush FC.  Bring it.  We will kick your teams ass, that's all I can say.  Also, why you going colors again on all of us?  Let's stop that and just love each other and not label by colors like the virus.  No religion or colors.  We all come from all different places and ancestry.  Scottish Highlands for me and all the abuse from guys like Randall ((EOTL)) and Cherokee for the wife.  Her ancestry and my ancestry worked together for the common good.


----------



## dad4

Lavey29 said:


> Once again you make statements without any supporting facts. Just got done speaking with a friend whose team did not get accepted . According to your logic how is this even possible? You stated they called up every rejected team to fill spots and still came up short. My conversation with a friend whose team was rejected confirms you are just spreading false and misleading info again.  I know big surprise right? You do a complete disservice to youth soccer on here and everyone should just ignore your meaningless posts.


are you going?  what club?


----------



## watfly

dad4 said:


> are you going?  what club?


Why don't you just wait until the schedule comes out and you can see all the clubs,  since you're so concerned about who is going.  Or maybe Surf won't publish the schedule to protect the identity of the evil, superspreader clubs.


----------



## Lavey29

dad4 said:


> are you going?  what club?


Yep will be watching some great soccer. Gee, give you my club name so you can send emails to anybody and everybody complaining about our attendance and doing everything possible to create problems for my kids club?  I tell you what though  I'd love to meet some of you little sheep clowns face to face down there and see if you are still keyboard tough guys. I'm sure you little snowflakes wont even consider meeting me there face to face because you know you are nothing more then meaningless words on the internet.


----------



## dad4

watfly said:


> Why don't you just wait until the schedule comes out and you can see all the clubs,  since you're so concerned about who is going.  Or maybe Surf won't publish the schedule to protect the identity of the evil, superspreader clubs.


Because it looks like someone is trying to sell people a bill of goods here.  

Come to AZ and play Surf Cup.  So you pay your insane fee and book your overpriced hotel.  Then, when the team list is out, it looks like a silver level tournament in Barstow.  You exposed your team and their families for nothing.


----------



## dad4

Lavey29 said:


> Yep will be watching some great soccer. Gee, give you my club name so you can send emails to anybody and everybody complaining about our attendance and doing everything possible to create problems for my kids club?  I tell you what though  I'd love to meet some of you little sheep clowns face to face down there and see if you are still keyboard tough guys. I'm sure you little snowflakes wont even consider meeting me there face to face because you know you are nothing more then meaningless words on the internet. View attachment 9697


Got it.  Surf versus Blues in every final.   Sounds exciting.

I’ll be rooting for that Beach team.


----------



## Lavey29

dad4 said:


> Because it looks like someone is trying to sell people a bill of goods here.
> 
> Come to AZ and play Surf Cup.  So you pay your insane fee and book your overpriced hotel.  Then, when the team list is out, it looks like a silver level tournament in Barstow.  You exposed your team and their families for nothing.


There you go defaming a well known tournament with no factual basis. Just meaningless dribble.


----------



## Lavey29

dad4 said:


> Got it.  Surf versus Blues in every final.   Sounds exciting.
> 
> I’ll be rooting for that Beach team.


Just let me know what field and what time. I'd love to make your acquaintance there. I'll even have my mask on to help with your fear.


----------



## watfly

dad4 said:


> Because it looks like someone is trying to sell people a bill of goods here.
> 
> Come to AZ and play Surf Cup.  So you pay your insane fee and book your overpriced hotel.  Then, when the team list is out, it looks like a silver level tournament in Barstow.  You exposed your team and their families for nothing.


I'm skeptical that that's your true intent since you're not going, why would you care about the level of competition?  That having been said, I sure hope people aren't making exposure related decisions based upon the level of competition, I would think you would feel the same way.

People have all sorts of motivations for playing and justifications for the price of things.  If I was concerned about the level of competition its simple enough just to ask Surf who is confirmed for your bracket.  If they won't or can't tell you then make your decision from there.


----------



## jimlewis

dad4 said:


> My hospital is down to 2 ICU beds.  My county‘s daily case rate is 2000% of their case rate in mid October.  No, that’s not a typo.  We went from 70 to 1400.
> 
> That’s enough of a surge for me, thanks.  What are you waiting for before you are willing to say it’s a problem?


That is terrible, but last I checked Thanksgiving isnt in October.  Im not disputing things are worse than in October, no one can.  What I am saying is the fear porn is at epic levels right now.  The area with the most lax rules over Thanksgiving is dropping in cases and hospitalizations.   We "should" follow that trend..


----------



## dad4

jimlewis said:


> That is terrible, but last I checked Thanksgiving isnt in October.  Im not disputing things are worse than in October, no one can.  What I am saying is the fear porn is at epic levels right now.  The area with the most lax rules over Thanksgiving is dropping in cases and hospitalizations.   We "should" follow that trend..


Oct was when my county opened restaurants.  That was the surge.

Then we had Thanksgiving.  That caused a surge on top of the first surge.

No thanks on following North Dakota on this.


----------



## dad4

[


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> Oct was when my county opened restaurants.  That was the surge.
> 
> Then we had Thanksgiving.  That caused a surge on top of the first surge.
> 
> No thanks on following North Dakota on this.


Los Angeles has had indoor dining shut all along and we still got the surge.


----------



## MSK357

dad4 said:


> Have it your way.   A shit load of teams have backed out.  A few are still in.
> 
> Is your kid’s team going?


Who are these teams?? And yes. My kid is going. 

Why should we listen to you anymore if you just throw out bs information?


----------



## MSK357

happy9 said:


> It's an opinion, likely stemming from accurate assumptions
> 
> Haven't we  hashed this out about a gazillion posts before?  What's up with the requirement for surgical precision?  I thought this was  safe place to share information without the requirement to testify in front of congress. And please don't reply that misinformation is being provided, cuz it's not.  What you are getting is valid information from parents in those clubs that aren't going.
> 
> We can likely say, without having to cite sources that most of the NORCAL ECNL/GA  teams aren't going.  None of the MLS next teams are going (theirNOV event was cancelled in Tucson).  Many of the SOCAL ECNL/GA teams aren't going - Surf is likely trying to send some team, but that's just them trying to carry the colors.  Blues sound like they are dropping most teams.  The AZ ECNL/GA teams aren't playing.
> 
> I know there is more to the soccer world than ECNL/GA/MLS, but for many it's the world we operate in.  I know Surf attracts many very good top clubs that are not affiliated with one of the silly letter leagues.  I have no idea, within that category, who is going and who has cancelled.  I suspect many have backed out.
> 
> So yea, is Surf a go?  Don't know.  Will it look similar to what a normal Surf tournament looks like?  Nope.  If it happens, will your players play?  Sure.  Is it worth it?  Up to you.  If I were in your situation, would I go?  nope.


Would love to see if your "accurate assumptions" turn out to be accurate. My accurate assumptions say your assumptions are wrong, at least for quite a few teams. 

When someone says 450 teams are pulling out previously and now says 85% but then can't name the teams, I can't help but roll my eyes. I guess the truth will come out amongst all this BS info that anyone can claim is accurate lol.


----------



## lafalafa

For olders big Bunch of Surf & Slammers teams added.

(12) or so Beach teams, (9) City SC,  (6) DMCV, (10) Eagles, (15) Heat NV, (7) LAFC Slam, (8) Pats, (15) Real Socal,  (12) Rebels, (12) RSL AZ,  (10) Blues, (7) Strikers

Utah, texas, washington also sending teams with Utah having the biggest numbers over AZ for example.


----------



## happy9

MSK357 said:


> Would love to see if your "accurate assumptions" turn out to be accurate. My accurate assumptions say your assumptions are wrong, at least for quite a few teams.
> 
> When someone says 450 teams are pulling out previously and now says 85% but then can't name the teams, I can't help but roll my eyes. I guess the truth will come out amongst all this BS info that anyone can claim is accurate lol.


Fair enough.  You can see how the argument is circular and how your characterization of quite a few teams is just as vague as someone saying many teams aren't coming.  Surf is on until it's not.  If it's on, safe travels and enjoy your time in AZ.  Hopefully your matches are played on the pitches at SSC.


----------



## Lavey29

lafalafa said:


> For olders big Bunch of Surf & Slammers teams added.
> 
> (12) or so Beach teams, (9) City SC,  (6) DMCV, (10) Eagles, (15) Heat NV, (7) LAFC Slam, (8) Pats, (15) Real Socal,  (12) Rebels, (12) RSL AZ,  (10) Blues, (7) Strikers
> 
> Utah, texas, washington also sending teams with Utah having the biggest numbers over AZ for example.



But, but, but Dad4 told us everyone had dropped out of the tournament and it was just a barstow scrimmage game now.


----------



## whatithink

watfly said:


> And because our California government is incompetent (particularly the EDD), $2 billion in Covid unemployment benefits went to prisoners and other non-qualified individuals and because our Federal government is incompetent unknown billions of PPP has gone to businesses that didn't qualify.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California unemployment fraud amid COVID-19 pandemic may total $2 billion, Bank of America says
> 
> 
> The bank, which has contracted with the state Employment Development Department to issue debit cards containing unemployment benefits, issued the warning in a letter to California legislators.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.latimes.com


Yeah, given that I always think that "competent government" is an oxymoron, I'm not surprised.

On the other side of the scale, they had to do something rapidly so nobody should be shocked at the lack of controls.


----------



## Desert Hound

watfly said:


> Why don't you just wait until the schedule comes out and you can see all the clubs,  since you're so concerned about who is going.  Or maybe Surf won't publish the schedule to protect the identity of the evil, superspreader clubs.


He wants to get an early start on reporting teams to the state of CA is the reason.


----------



## jimlewis

lafalafa said:


> For olders big Bunch of Surf & Slammers teams added.
> 
> (12) or so Beach teams, (9) City SC,  (6) DMCV, (10) Eagles, (15) Heat NV, (7) LAFC Slam, (8) Pats, (15) Real Socal,  (12) Rebels, (12) RSL AZ,  (10) Blues, (7) Strikers
> 
> Utah, texas, washington also sending teams with Utah having the biggest numbers over AZ for example.


where do you see this information?


----------



## dad4

Lavey29 said:


> But, but, but Dad4 told us everyone had dropped out of the tournament and it was just a barstow scrimmage game now.


So release the teams list, and keep it up to date.

Right now, we have a Surf website saying Beach is in, and a Beach parent saying all teams are out.

Doesn't inspire confidence in the rest of the list, does it?  Sure seems like cancellations might be kept quiet until after it's too late to get money back.


----------



## Desert Hound

dad4 said:


> Oct was when my county opened restaurants. That was the surge.


And just by coincidence within a 2-3 week window every state and pretty much every country in the N Hemisphere had the same spike as well?

I guess they all opened up their restaurants in Oct as well.


----------



## watfly

Desert Hound said:


> He wants to get an early start on reporting teams to the state of CA is the reason.


Nope, we are both wrong, it turns out it was entirely altruistic gesture to prevent people from overpaying for lower quality soccer.


----------



## Lavey29

dad4 said:


> So release the teams list, and keep it up to date.
> 
> Right now, we have a Surf website saying Beach is in, and a Beach parent saying all teams are out.
> 
> Doesn't inspire confidence in the rest of the list, does it?  Sure seems like cancellations might be kept quiet until after it's too late to get money back.


Just so everyone understands,  you dont have a kid playing in the tournament so now you have made it your life mission to talk crap about the tournament and spread false misleading information with no factual basis. Do you even have a kid in youth soccer? What is your obsession with this tournament? Surf team turned your kid down due to sub par play?  Vendetta now?


----------



## Overtime

lafalafa said:


> For olders big Bunch of Surf & Slammers teams added.
> 
> (12) or so Beach teams, (9) City SC,  (6) DMCV, (10) Eagles, (15) Heat NV, (7) LAFC Slam, (8) Pats, (15) Real Socal,  (12) Rebels, (12) RSL AZ,  (10) Blues, (7) Strikers
> 
> Utah, texas, washington also sending teams with Utah having the biggest numbers over AZ for example.


All Beach teams are out.  The oldest age group requested an exception on the girls side and were denied by the club.


----------



## dad4

Desert Hound said:


> And just by coincidence within a 2-3 week window every state and pretty much every country in the N Hemisphere had the same spike as well?
> 
> I guess they all opened up their restaurants in Oct as well.


Actually, in October we had a national conspiracy to close all restaurant windows and reset the clocks to make it dark in the evenings.

I think the illuminati were behind it.  It's where their name comes from.


----------



## MSK357

happy9 said:


> Fair enough.  You can see how the argument is circular and how your characterization of quite a few teams is just as vague as someone saying many teams aren't coming.  Surf is on until it's not.  If it's on, safe travels and enjoy your time in AZ.  Hopefully your matches are played on the pitches at SSC.


Thats exactly my point, the vague answers after claiming 450 teams and 85% being pulled makes it very hard to be credible. All I asked for was who are these teams? How can we trust assumptions after claims like that? Let's just see what happens.


----------



## Desert Hound

dad4 said:


> Actually, in October we had a national conspiracy to close all restaurant windows and reset the clocks to make it dark in the evenings.
> 
> I think the illuminati were behind it.  It's where their name comes from.


I just find it more than entertaining that you cant really explain why pretty much everywhere in the N Hemisphere had the same spike within roughly the same 2-3 week period. 

Your go to is well it must be restaurants and bars. As if magically everywhere in the N Hemisphere bars and restaurants all by chance also opened up in the same 2-3 week window. 

Hey I wonder if this square peg fits into that circular hole? Didn't the first few times. Maybe this time it will.


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> Just so everyone understands,  you dont have a kid playing in the tournament so now you have made it your life mission to talk crap about the tournament and spread false misleading information with no factual basis. Do you even have a kid in youth soccer? What is your obsession with this tournament? Surf team turned your kid down due to sub par play?  Vendetta now?


You actually typed this out and didn't realize the irony?  You are accusing someone of the very thing thing that you went on to do. 

So..to make sure I understand, you are accusing someone of not making a Surf team and then using that as a motive to provide false information about a tournament that is obviously not what it set out to be.  And you went directly after their player?  Strong, and quite the tuff guy.

At some point we will see what the team list is and then we can rehash everyone's opinion on whether the competition is good or not.  There will undoubtedly be opinions, which is not a bad thing.  

What exactly is false information?  someone just posted that 12 beach teams are going followed quickly by someone saying none are going?


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> So release the teams list, and keep it up to date.
> 
> Right now, we have a Surf website saying Beach is in, and a Beach parent saying all teams are out.
> 
> Doesn't inspire confidence in the rest of the list, does it?  Sure seems like cancellations might be kept quiet until after it's too late to get money back.


Beach parents are very well informed too so I believe them.  For the record, i would love my dd to play.


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> You actually typed this out and didn't realize the irony?  You are accusing someone of the very thing thing that you went on to do.
> 
> So..to make sure I understand, you are accusing someone of not making a Surf team and then using that as a motive to provide false information about a tournament that is obviously not what it set out to be.  And you went directly after their player?  Strong, and quite the tuff guy.
> 
> At some point we will see what the team list is and then we can rehash everyone's opinion on whether the competition is good or not.  There will undoubtedly be opinions, which is not a bad thing.
> 
> What exactly is false information?  someone just posted that 12 beach teams are going followed quickly by someone saying none are going?



Focus happy, you obviously have not read some of the bafoonery posted on here trying to talk crap about the tournament but then again you tend to post a lot of bafoonery yourself about it as well. Individuals with no connection to the club or tournament just posting false misleading info about it like they have first hand knowledge.  What a fine example of adulting here....lol


----------



## happy9

Lavey29 said:


> Focus happy, you obviously have not read some of the bafoonery posted on here trying to talk crap about the tournament but then again you tend to post a lot of bafoonery yourself about it as well. Individuals with no connection to the club or tournament just posting false misleading info about it like they have first hand knowledge.  What a fine example of adulting here....lol


I am trying to focus! How are they talking crap?  There is back and forth on both "sides".  Didn't you just see someone post a list of confirmed and validated teams only to be quickly discredited by someone who knows that certain club isn't going, at all, across any age group? 

And yes, much bufoonery to be had.  I'm confident my bufoonery is accurate and not designed to disparage Surf.  My youngest has never had the opportunity to play in a Surf event, league play always took precedence.  This would have been a great opportunity to play against teams that routinely play in Surf.  But, not to be.


----------



## dad4

Desert Hound said:


> I just find it more than entertaining that you cant really explain why pretty much everywhere in the N Hemisphere had the same spike within roughly the same 2-3 week period.
> 
> Your go to is well it must be restaurants and bars. As if magically everywhere in the N Hemisphere bars and restaurants all by chance also opened up in the same 2-3 week window.
> 
> Hey I wonder if this square peg fits into that circular hole? Didn't the first few times. Maybe this time it will.


You still haven't figured it out?

LMAO.

Yes, all the restaurants and bars in the northern hemisphere decided to close their windows at dinner time.  And all within the same 2-3 week period. 

Not Arizona, but most of the country has both winter and daylight savings time.  It gets cold and dark at dinnertime.  All at once, because we all set our clocks back just as fall sets in.  Dinner happens one hour colder and one hour darker.  People shift to eating and drinking indoors, and restaurants close the windows.

All of which helps covid spread - if restaurants are open.  More people inside, together, with less ventilation. 

It's the same idea as restaurants being open in mid summer heat gave you guys a peak in July- except you closed the windows to stay cool instead of to stay warm.

The better question is what is going on in LA.


----------



## Lavey29

happy9 said:


> I am trying to focus! How are they talking crap?  There is back and forth on both "sides".  Didn't you just see someone post a list of confirmed and validated teams only to be quickly discredited by someone who knows that certain club isn't going, at all, across any age group?
> 
> And yes, much bufoonery to be had.  I'm confident my bufoonery is accurate and not designed to disparage Surf.  My youngest has never had the opportunity to play in a Surf event, league play always took precedence.  This would have been a great opportunity to play against teams that routinely play in Surf.  But, not to be.


Happy, I'm trying to disengage from these useless threads, yes I posted way to much again here but I'm going be be minimizing participation now unless there is some useful soccer conversation.  Go back a few pages and you will see the bafoonery posted. My kid has only done a few Surf cups and November nights over the years. I really liked last years Adidas cup which her team came out top in their group playing higher ranked teams. It doesn't matter if your kid has played in surf or not. The only thing kids should be focused on is personal development and with the current restrictions this is difficult but not impossible.  My kid really enjoys her dad training sessions or double dad training when her friend joins her. We work extensively on fundamentals and mix in some good conditioning also. Yes scrimmage and game play is needed. She trains private with some boys from her school and they get 1v1, 2v2, 4v4, etc... play during the training session.  Soccer tournaments are more for club reputations to boast about but you can get the same level of quality play from good friendly scrimmage also. Yes they are still happening. It's sad that 45 other states have all of their youth sports in full affect but California just watches its governor violate his own edicts.


----------



## MrCruett

dad4 said:


> Oct was when my county opened restaurants.  That was the surge.
> 
> Then we had Thanksgiving.  That caused a surge on top of the first surge.
> 
> No thanks on following North Dakota on this.


What county are you in?


----------



## ITFC Blues

Lavey29 said:


> Happy, I'm trying to disengage from these useless threads, yes I posted way to much again here but I'm going be be minimizing participation now unless there is some useful soccer conversation.  Go back a few pages and you will see the bafoonery posted. My kid has only done a few Surf cups and November nights over the years. I really liked last years Adidas cup which her team came out top in their group playing higher ranked teams. It doesn't matter if your kid has played in surf or not. The only thing kids should be focused on is personal development and with the current restrictions this is difficult but not impossible.  My kid really enjoys her dad training sessions or double dad training when her friend joins her. We work extensively on fundamentals and mix in some good conditioning also. Yes scrimmage and game play is needed. She trains private with some boys from her school and they get 1v1, 2v2, 4v4, etc... play during the training session.  Soccer tournaments are more for club reputations to boast about but you can get the same level of quality play from good friendly scrimmage also. Yes they are still happening. It's sad that 45 other states have all of their youth sports in full affect but California just watches its governor violate his own edicts.


It hasn't been perfect in other states.  Although this isn't widespread they are trying to avoid things like this.









						COVID-19's impacts on Anne Arundel Co. youth sports has hundreds being asked to quarantine, report says
					

More than 800 people have been asked to quarantine after 39 people connected to a youth football league tested positive for COVID-19, said The Washington Post




					www.wusa9.com
				




They  also cancelled a soccer tournament last minute due to a player who was positive at an event 1 week prior.


----------



## crush

No soccer in socal the last 10 months.  No one is allowed to travel out of state to play soccer without being under lock down for 14 days.  Now we have this.  I knew Christmas was next.  
*Fauci tells Americans not to see their kids for Christmas*


----------



## dad4

crush said:


> No soccer in socal the last 10 months.  No one is allowed to travel out of state to play soccer without being under lock down for 14 days.  Now we have this.  I knew Christmas was next.
> *Fauci tells Americans not to see their kids for Christmas*
> View attachment 9699


We changed our plans weeks ago.  

Giving Grandpa covid didn't seem like a very nice present.  

Not really Fauci's fault.  He's just giving us the information.


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> We changed our plans weeks ago. ,
> 
> Giving Grandpa covid didn't seem like a very nice present.
> 
> Not really Fauci's fault.  He's just giving us the information.


If you have the Rona, then stay home for God and his sake.  If we cant see papi and mama on Christmas, then we can't see them tomorrow, right?  No day is a good day under this BS idea?  If we wear mask, practice 6 x 6 and wash hands, we r safe I thought.  Like I said, me and the Mrs are 100% healthy and we will bring Christmas cheer and presents to Grandpa and Grandma.  I honestly think this will be the last Christmas my wife's parents will remember so we have to go.  We celebrate deeply on Christmas Eve.  Guatemala tamales is our tradition with prayer and times with Jesus and his birth.  I love Jesus and so does our family.


----------



## dad4

crush said:


> If you have the Rona, then stay home for God and his sake.  If we cant see papi and mama on Christmas, then we can't see them tomorrow, right?  No day is a good day under this BS idea?  If we wear mask, practice 6 x 6 and wash hands, we r safe I thought.  Like I said, me and the Mrs are 100% healthy and we will bring Christmas cheer and presents to Grandpa and Grandma.  I honestly think this will be the last Christmas my wife's parents will remember so we have to go.  We celebrate deeply on Christmas Eve.  Guatemala tamales is our tradition with prayer and times with Jesus and his birth.  I love Jesus and so does our family.


Ah.  Good health to you and yours.  Hope it all works out.

We are waiting for the vaccine.   They are old enough to be in one of the early rounds.  We'll get to see them in person soon enough.


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> Ah.  Good health to you and yours.  Hope it all works out.
> 
> We are waiting for the vaccine.   They are old enough to be in one of the early rounds.  We'll get to see them in person soon enough.


I wish Dr F would say, "if you have Rona or feel like sh*t, please stay home.  However, if your up to it, please go spend time with a family member and make sure their ok over the Holidays."  Enjoy the poison sir.


----------



## htk

lafalafa said:


> For olders big Bunch of Surf & Slammers teams added.
> 
> (12) or so Beach teams, (9) City SC,  (6) DMCV, (10) Eagles, (15) Heat NV, (7) LAFC Slam, (8) Pats, (15) Real Socal,  (12) Rebels, (12) RSL AZ,  (10) Blues, (7) Strikers
> 
> Utah, texas, washington also sending teams with Utah having the biggest numbers over AZ for example.


This list is completely inaccurate. Must be based on old information.


----------



## lafalafa

htk said:


> This list is completely inaccurate. Must be based on old information.


Today's registered list like I mentioned, how updated is we will see after everything shakes out, adds, drops and the schedules comes out

What's not accurate?

500 teams in this tournament between the youngers & olders is what there scheduling for.


----------



## MrCruett

dad4 said:


> Not really Fauci's fault.  He's just giving us the information.


With his thumb measuring the wind direction like he did with AIDS back in the day.


----------



## Glitterhater

Honest question- for those of you not going to Surf, why do you care if others do? Trying to figure out if I need to find some fks to give, because I currently think of a million other things to worry about.

Full disclosure: we are not going- and we wouldn't have even if our club was sending us. But I don't care who is! 

Can we talk about something else? Santa? The Easter Bunny?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

Glitterhater said:


> Honest question- for those of you not going to Surf, why do you care if others do? Trying to figure out if I need to find some fks to give, because I currently think of a million other things to worry
> Can we talk about something else? Santa? The Easter Bunny?


I think it’s two camps:  
1. Those who are jealous that their teams are not going. 
2. Those who can’t believe Surf insist on holding a tournament with the current covid situation 


I don’t care either but my question is how do you tell little kids that It’s ok for Santa to travel when we are in a travel quarantine restrictions.


----------



## crush

Glitterhater said:


> Honest question- for those of you not going to Surf, why do you care if others do? Trying to figure out if I need to find some fks to give, because I currently think of a million other things to worry about.
> 
> Full disclosure: we are not going- and we wouldn't have even if our club was sending us. But I don't care who is!
> 
> Can we talk about something else? Santa? The Easter Bunny?


I dont care if anyone goes.  Full disclosure from me.  I want my dd to play in Surf Cup.  I would prefer best of the best but because she only has played 12+ real games of any meaning the last two years, I would take just about any soccer related game right about now.  I understand why some are pumped.  Plus, some teams who get denied every year now have a chance to shine and prove others wrong.  The updated video clips would be helpful as well.  USC just picked up a stud QB out of Utah.  He said 100% being able to play while all the Socal kids were not allowed helped his chance to be scene more.  Super happy for the young lad.  I love Santa and he's watching us all this year.


----------



## crush

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I think it’s two camps:
> 1. Those who are jealous that their teams are not going.
> 2. Those who can’t believe Surf insist on holding a tournament with the current covid situation
> 
> 
> I don’t care either but my question is how do you tell little kids that It’s ok for Santa to travel when we are in a travel quarantine restrictions.


Tell them that Santa has the Rona and can;t make his trip this year.  Dad will fill in this year and then Santa will come back next year.


----------



## Glitterhater

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I think it’s two camps:
> 1. Those who are jealous that their teams are not going.
> 2. Those who can’t believe Surf insist on holding a tournament with the current covid situation
> 
> 
> I don’t care either but my question is how do you tell little kids that It’s ok for Santa to travel when we are in a travel quarantine restrictions.


We told our youngest that he is too magical for the rona to stick!


----------



## MacDre

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I think it’s two camps:
> 1. Those who are jealous that their teams are not going.
> 2. Those who can’t believe Surf insist on holding a tournament with the current covid situation
> 
> 
> I don’t care either but my question is how do you tell little kids that It’s ok for Santa to travel when we are in a travel quarantine restrictions.


Santa’s an essential front line worker


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

Glitterhater said:


> We told our youngest that he is too magical for the rona to stick!


 Nice!  Santa has magical antibodies and his reindeer’s are 6 feet apart.   Heck, he is flying all over the world with his bag full of vaccines!    Sounds like a Pfizer commercial in the making.


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> The better question is what is going on in LA.


Almost 10% of US cases in CA today, with LA leading the charge....despite months of mask mandates, curfews, indoor and outdoor dining shut.


----------



## dad4

Grace T. said:


> Almost 10% of US cases in CA today, with LA leading the charge....despite months of mask mandates, curfews, indoor and outdoor dining shut.


That's why it's an interesting question.

LA also has almost none of the cold air that typically raises transmission rates. 

But covid has hit LA more than twice as hard as the SF bay area.  What is different?


----------



## happy9

Glitterhater said:


> Honest question- for those of you not going to Surf, why do you care if others do? Trying to figure out if I need to find some fks to give, because I currently think of a million other things to worry about.
> 
> Full disclosure: we are not going- and we wouldn't have even if our club was sending us. But I don't care who is!
> 
> Can we talk about something else? Santa? The Easter Bunny?


For sure don't care if anyone is going.  This topic started out questioning whether it was going to happen and discussing the obstacles in the way.  Then people got butt hurt, lines were drawn, and here we are. 

 2 weeks ago my youngest was playing, even opted out of HS to play.  Now the club has withdrawn all of the teams.  They'll  practice this last week then shut it down for two weeks.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Glitterhater said:


> We told our youngest that he is too magical for the rona to stick!


I always thought it was magical dust.


----------



## Kicker4Life

dad4 said:


> That's why it's an interesting question.
> 
> LA also has almost none of the cold air that typically raises transmission rates.
> 
> But covid has hit LA more than twice as hard as the SF bay area.  What is different?


Roughly 46% of the 306k tests run yesterday in the State of CA where dine in LA Co alone.  

IMO, the cold air theory coincides with people staying indoors (avoiding the cold). In LA everything outdoors has been pretty much shut down forcing everyone to do things inside.


----------



## crush

“We have reached a point where COVID-19 is so widespread in California that *just leaving the house is a risky behavior*, which is why we adopted the regional stay-at-home order,” Dr. Mark Ghaly, secretary of the California Health and Human Services Agency said in an e-mail. “This is not about which sector is riskier than another sector, it’s about that fact that any mixing among households presents a risk of disease transmission.” 

Stay home all winter and avoid the risky behavior of leaving one's house.  How can I work?  I just need food, water and shelter.  Please have Amazon and door dash bring me my stuff.  Grub up can bring me my tasty food.  The future looks so nice for all of us.  Oh Joy, what wonderful leaders we have.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Kicker4Life said:


> Roughly 46% of the 306k tests run yesterday in the State of CA where dine in LA Co alone.
> 
> IMO, the cold air theory coincides with people staying indoors (avoiding the cold). In LA everything outdoors has been pretty much shut down forcing everyone to do things inside.


The problem with restrictions is that you don't know what other activities will replace those that are restricted. When you start restricting low-risk behaviors (outside dining, outdoor sports) those behaviors will be replaced with something else and it won't always be lower risk.

On a separate note, our park was full of soccer and lacrosse players last night around 8:00 PM when we drove past. Our club isn't even allowed to train in the county (Santa Clara). I'm really not sure what is being accomplished.


----------



## Kicker4Life

kickingandscreaming said:


> The problem with restrictions is that you don't know what other activities will replace those that are restricted. When you start restricting low-risk behaviors (outside dining, outdoor sports) those behaviors will be replaced with something else and it won't always be lower risk.
> 
> On a separate note, our park was full of soccer and lacrosse players last night around 8:00 PM when we drove past. Our club isn't even allowed to train in the county (Santa Clara). I'm really not sure what is being accomplished.


100%.....


----------



## crush

From Hotel man,
“It’s very challenging for businesses to do* litmus tests on a guest’s essentialness, or how far they’ve traveled,”* he said. “*It’s a little all over the place. I don’t think there’s any consistent understanding among the 50 some counties in California.*

“If you walk into a hotel, and say ‘I’m essential.’ Is that hotel going to say ‘no’? Each hotel has their different protocols.”

Crush Example

Hotel Desk Lady:  What county you from

Dad with soccer player: OC baby

Hotel Desk Lady: OH are you.........

Dad with soccer player interrupts lady:  Were both essential people and we feel it's essential to be here

Hotel Lady:  Cool with us.  Welcome.  We will upgrade you to any room you want.  No one is here and you might as well enjoy it all.  The pool is all yours.  Enjoy your stay and play with us again


----------



## Desert Hound

kickingandscreaming said:


> I'm really not sure what is being accomplished.


Nothing. Actually I take that back. Ruining the lives of people who have built businesses and those that work in those places that have been shut down. 

People are social creatures. If they don't allow X to be open, we will go to Y. Y may be hanging out more at friends houses, etc.


----------



## Soccer Bum 06

Desert Hound said:


> Nothing. Actually I take that back. Ruining the lives of people who have built businesses and those that work in those places that have been shut down.
> 
> People are social creatures. If they don't allow X to be open, we will go to Y. Y may be hanging out more at friends houses, etc.


I mostly agree but also want to mention a large majority of the population has complied to mask and distancing requirements. So much compliance that the flu has nearly been eradicated. Yet our officials and governor continue to try and place blame on the people for the viruses spread. All while evidence shows waves of cases come and go in states with and without strict mandates. The only difference is what you pointed out that California had ruined a large part of its economy and mental health of their population, especially the children with school and sports closures. The people have done their part. The governor and his health authorities have failed.


----------



## dad4

If we all are doing our part, why is cell phone mobility only down 40%?

I understand the temptation to say "nothing works".  After all, if nothing works, then we can get rid of all these annoying restrictions.

But there is a reason Riverside and San Bernardino each had over 2500 cases per million population,  while every Bay Area county was at 1000 or less.   

It isn't seasonality- RC and SB have more daylight and less cold than we do. 
It isn't density- RC and SB are less dense than the bay area.  
It isn't seroprevalence- RC and SB have more built up immunity than we do.

I suspect it is behavior.  Socal may just have more people holding small indoor gatherings.  Which is part of why Grace hates the thought of fines for dinner parties, but I don't mind it.  Its hard to imagine the police breaking up your party if you have forgotten what it is like to be at a party.


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> Which is part of why Grace hates the thought of fines for dinner parties, but I don't mind it.  Its hard to imagine the police breaking up your party if you have forgotten what it is like to be at a party.


It's easy for the cops to catch a rave in the hollywood hills if they wanted to.  It's much harder to catch a dinner party.  You either have to shut down all transit and keep people out only for essential activities (the freeways are packed now in Los Angeles in the afternoon) which means shutting down the retailers and box stores and hollywood productions (doing that also allows you to constitutionally shut down indoor worship), or you have to police going door to door without a warrant.  The police couldn't even shut down the dangy bros having their kegger next to my house.

You logic always leads you to Australia/New Zealand, whether you'll admit or not.


----------



## MrCruett

dad4 said:


> If we all are doing our part, why is cell phone mobility only down 40%?
> 
> I understand the temptation to say "nothing works".  After all, if nothing works, then we can get rid of all these annoying restrictions.
> 
> But there is a reason Riverside and San Bernardino each had over 2500 cases per million population,  while every Bay Area county was at 1000 or less.
> 
> It isn't seasonality- RC and SB have more daylight and less cold than we do.
> It isn't density- RC and SB are less dense than the bay area.
> It isn't seroprevalence- RC and SB have more built up immunity than we do.
> 
> I suspect it is behavior.  Socal may just have more people holding small indoor gatherings.  Which is part of why Grace hates the thought of fines for dinner parties, but I don't mind it.  Its hard to imagine the police breaking up your party if you have forgotten what it is like to be at a party.


Or it could be more people are screwing in those counties than up north. Just a theory I'm testing. Give it a try. It might be the fix.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

Kicker4Life said:


> Roughly 46% of the 306k tests run yesterday in the State of CA where dine in LA Co alone.
> 
> IMO, the cold air theory coincides with people staying indoors (avoiding the cold). In LA everything outdoors has been pretty much shut down forcing everyone to do things inside.


It’s simple. We have great weather and we are not used to doing the quarantine thing like other states. People from Cold area states don’t go out in the winter.  Also in LA you have a lot of low income Latino families that cannot quarantine because they have to work every day.   They work in hospitals, retailers, warehouses, and grocery stores.   They live with 2 generations of families and there’s no financial emergency fund to quarantine for so long.


----------



## crush

Weather is amazing today.  I recommend everyone taking a look at the moon the next 4 nights and all the planets.  2021 will be for WOMAN!!!! 
 December 21st will be amazing light show.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

MrCruett said:


> Or it could be more people are screwing in those counties than up north. Just a theory I'm testing. Give it a try. It might be the fix.


Crush DM’ed me and said it’s because NorCal has a large population of predominantly boring, socially inept, tech people that are Howard Hughes’s in training therefore they naturally social distance and actually prefer it that way. Ok, Crush didn’t actually DM that to me, but he probably thought it.


----------



## dad4

kickingandscreaming said:


> Crush DM’ed me and said it’s because NorCal has a large population of predominantly boring, socially inept, tech people that are Howard Hughes’s in training therefore they naturally social distance and actually prefer it that way. Ok, Crush didn’t actually DM that to me, but he probably thought it.


It's hard to catch covid when you program 84 hours a week and play first person shooters the other 84.


----------



## crush

kickingandscreaming said:


> Crush DM’ed me and said it’s because NorCal has a large population of predominantly boring, socially inept, tech people that are Howard Hughes’s in training therefore they naturally social distance and actually prefer it that way. Ok, Crush didn’t actually DM that to me, but he probably thought it.


I seriously thought, "how did you read my mind like that."


----------



## dad4

Grace T. said:


> It's easy for the cops to catch a rave in the hollywood hills if they wanted to.  It's much harder to catch a dinner party.  You either have to shut down all transit and keep people out only for essential activities (the freeways are packed now in Los Angeles in the afternoon) which means shutting down the retailers and box stores and hollywood productions (doing that also allows you to constitutionally shut down indoor worship), or you have to police going door to door without a warrant.  The police couldn't even shut down the dangy bros having their kegger next to my house.
> 
> You logic always leads you to Australia/New Zealand, whether you'll admit or not.


I think my point is that your neighbors apparently would not think of cancelling their kegger, even with a police visit.

If that's the norm, no wonder closing restaurants wasn't enough.


----------



## MrCruett

kickingandscreaming said:


> Crush DM’ed me and said it’s because NorCal has a large population of predominantly boring, socially inept, tech people that are Howard Hughes’s in training therefore they naturally social distance and actually prefer it that way. Ok, Crush didn’t actually DM that to me, but he probably thought it.


Lol! He might be right.


----------



## Grace T.

MrCruett said:


> Or it could be more people are screwing in those counties than up north. Just a theory I'm testing. Give it a try. It might be the fix.


If you think about it, to control the socialization aspect of things you'd have to tell anyone who isn't married or living together (but including anyone having an affair), that they can't screw for a 1+ years.  Short of shutting down the highways and permitting only supermarkets, pharmacies and medical visits, I don't know how you do it.  Even Fergueson, the architect of the lockdowns himself, couldn't do it for a few weeks during the first round of lockdowns.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Grace T. said:


> If you think about it, to control the socialization aspect of things you'd have to tell anyone who isn't married or living together (but including anyone having an affair), that they can't screw for a 1+ years.  Short of shutting down the highways and permitting only supermarkets, pharmacies and medical visits, I don't know how you do it.  Even Fergueson, the architect of the lockdowns himself, couldn't do it for a few weeks during the first round of lockdowns.


Let's not give the state government any ideas on this subject.


----------



## crush

MrCruett said:


> Lol! He might be right.


Look, here's the truth about me.  I snuck in this Matix by luck and some love.  I come from deep Scottish Highlander Ancestry ((SHA!!!!)).   My peoples land was stolen from them.  We were raped and left to die.  However, we snuck over to the Carolinas and made a life for ourselves.  The other Scots hooked up with the Imperialist.


----------



## Keepermom2

dad4 said:


> If we all are doing our part, why is cell phone mobility only down 40%?
> 
> I understand the temptation to say "nothing works".  After all, if nothing works, then we can get rid of all these annoying restrictions.
> 
> But there is a reason Riverside and San Bernardino each had over 2500 cases per million population,  while every Bay Area county was at 1000 or less.
> 
> It isn't seasonality- RC and SB have more daylight and less cold than we do.
> It isn't density- RC and SB are less dense than the bay area.
> It isn't seroprevalence- RC and SB have more built up immunity than we do.
> 
> I suspect it is behavior.  Socal may just have more people holding small indoor gatherings.  Which is part of why Grace hates the thought of fines for dinner parties, but I don't mind it.  Its hard to imagine the police breaking up your party if you have forgotten what it is like to be at a party.


Poverty rate for SB County is 17% and RC County is 15%.  Bay area is 8% to 10%.  Where you have higher poverty you have more people living in small quarters together.


----------



## watfly

kickingandscreaming said:


> Crush DM’ed me and said it’s because NorCal has a large population of predominantly boring, socially inept, tech people that are Howard Hughes’s in training therefore they naturally social distance and actually prefer it that way. Ok, Crush didn’t actually DM that to me, but he probably thought it.


Apparently the virus can't pass through a hoody.


----------



## dad4

watfly said:


> Apparently the virus can't pass through a hoody.


You're wearing it backwards.  The closed part of the hood goes in the back, over your mullet.


----------



## Grace T.

Keepermom2 said:


> Poverty rate for SB County is 17% and RC County is 15%.  Bay area is 8% to 10%.  Where you have higher poverty you have more people living in small quarters together.


Hand in hand you also have people out and about working then in person.  

This is just speculation on my part but if you are working in person day in and day out you might also be more likely to socialize as well (the reasoning being well I might catch the damn thing at work anyway so why am I protecting myself during off hours)


----------



## watfly

Bro, thank you.  It's not a mullet, its just Covid hair.  I might be able to pull off a reverse mohawk, but not a mullet.

BTW what's up with the return of the mullet?  Its comeback and now its cool?


----------



## watfly

Keepermom2 said:


> Poverty rate for SB County is 17% and RC County is 15%.  Bay area is 8% to 10%.  Where you have higher poverty you have more people living in small quarters together.


I believe that socioeconomic factors are the biggest determinant of Covid infections and deaths.


----------



## MrCruett

watfly said:


> Bro, thank you.  It's not a mullet, its just Covid hair.  I might be able to pull off a reverse mohawk, but not a mullet.
> 
> BTW what's up with the return of the mullet?  Its comeback and now its cool?


What do you mean? It never left and is always cool... said the hick from the sticks.


----------



## Keepermom2

Grace T. said:


> Hand in hand you also have people out and about working then in person.
> 
> This is just speculation on my part but if you are working in person day in and day out you might also be more likely to socialize as well (the reasoning being well I might catch the damn thing at work anyway so why am I protecting myself during off hours)


When I was watching some of the press conferences that included information about low income areas, the number one problem was education on the virus and how it spreads.  I talked to one guy a couple of months ago that thought he got COVID from sleeping with the window open.  This guy has a reasonable intelligence yet he clearly didn't know how Covid is spread after 6 months in the pandemic.   He also was letting his daughter carry on with life because her symptoms were gone.  

The woman that I listened to early on in the pandemic said a lack of education was a huge problem in the low income areas yet she was struggling getting the state government organizations to listen and do anything about it.  I had to stop listening because the absolute stupidity from our State leadership became depressing to me.


----------



## crush

Tom is all stressed trying to get his movie finished.  I bet you 100% soccer is safer.  Look at how he treat his peeps.  Tikes, what a mean old man.  Sounds like another EOTL to work for. 

In the leaked audio, Cruise called the set of the film the* "gold standard"* of shooting amid pandemic conditions.

"We are creating thousands of jobs you *motherf--kers,*" he shouted. "I don't ever want to see it again. Ever. And if you don't do it, you're fired, and I see you do it again, *you'r fe--king* gone."

Tough work conditions.  First off, why the heck is he in such hurry to get movie finished?  This is crazy.....


----------



## Grace T.

Keepermom2 said:


> When I was watching some of the press conferences that included information about low income areas, the number one problem was education on the virus and how it spreads.  I talked to one guy a couple of months ago that thought he got COVID from sleeping with the window open.  This guy has a reasonable intelligence yet he clearly didn't know how Covid is spread after 6 months in the pandemic.   He also was letting his daughter carry on with life because her symptoms were gone.
> 
> The woman that I listened to early on in the pandemic said a lack of education was a huge problem in the low income areas yet she was struggling getting the state government organizations to listen and do anything about it.  I had to stop listening because the absolute stupidity from our State leadership became depressing to me.


It's hard to convince people there's an emergency unless you behave as such.  First there were the protests....yeah yeah yeah it's a first amendment activity but you had a lot of health care people and politicians joining in too.  There was Trump, who for his own reasons has always downplayed COVID and then who caught it (and recovered).  Then there's all the D politicians asking people not to socialize for thanksgiving but who then go out and do it.  And you have the working classes having to go work in person and all the stores open.  Then you go to them and say "we're in an emergency" and they say "really, it doesn't look that way".  We even keep saying the hospitals are going to be overwhelmed but it's not like over the last 6 months we've built up emergency care facilities (despite hearing all the talk about a winter surge since the beginning of the summer), we don't have the state setting up state triage centers (like they did in NY at the beginning of the crisis) or opening up the hospital ship.


----------



## Keepermom2

Grace T. said:


> It's hard to convince people there's an emergency unless you behave as such.  First there were the protests....yeah yeah yeah it's a first amendment activity but you had a lot of health care people and politicians joining in too.  There was Trump, who for his own reasons has always downplayed COVID and then who caught it (and recovered).  Then there's all the D politicians asking people not to socialize for thanksgiving but who then go out and do it.  And you have the working classes having to go work in person and all the stores open.  Then you go to them and say "we're in an emergency" and they say "really, it doesn't look that way".  We even keep saying the hospitals are going to be overwhelmed but it's not like over the last 6 months we've built up emergency care facilities (despite hearing all the talk about a winter surge since the beginning of the summer), we don't have the state setting up state triage centers (like they did in NY at the beginning of the crisis) or opening up the hospital ship.


Yeah the hypocrisy and the restrictions that aren't supported by any data or aren't consistent just makes people hear blah blah blah even when something is important to hear.  
I told my adult daughter that her dad Governor Newsom said she had a 10:00 curfew and her answer was....."Was that before he went to a party or after?!"  I can guarantee you she didn't hear that from the news.


----------



## whatithink

Grace T. said:


> We even keep saying the hospitals are going to be overwhelmed but it's not like over the last 6 months we've built up emergency care facilities (despite hearing all the talk about a winter surge since the beginning of the summer), we don't have the state setting up state triage centers (like they did in NY at the beginning of the crisis) or opening up the hospital ship.


Where would all the extra doctors and nurses come from? I know when it originally hit NY, a lot of medical people went there from around the country so they had a staffing influx. But now there are surges everywhere. You can build what you want, but it has zero value without the trained staff to run it and you can't manufacture them on any fast track.

London built (repurposed a building more like) a 4000 bed hospital early on, but only treated 51 patients before they closed it down. The meds there said they were nuts as they could never have staffed it, but it looked good.

Anyway, COVID was always going to spread, every lockdown has been and is about slowing it so that things don't get overwhelmed. Treatment has improved no end and fortunately vaccines are now rolling out.


----------



## watfly

whatithink said:


> Where would all the extra doctors and nurses come from? I know when it originally hit NY, a lot of medical people went there from around the country so they had a staffing influx. But now there are surges everywhere. You can build what you want, but it has zero value without the trained staff to run it and you can't manufacture them on any fast track.
> 
> London built (repurposed a building more like) a 4000 bed hospital early on, but only treated 51 patients before they closed it down. The meds there said they were nuts as they could never have staffed it, but it looked good.
> 
> Anyway, COVID was always going to spread, every lockdown has been and is about slowing it so that things don't get overwhelmed. Treatment has improved no end and fortunately vaccines are now rolling out.


They said on the news yesterday that in California they were allowing hospitals to increase the ICU patient to nurse ratio from 2:1 to 3:1.  Sounds like a desperation move.  SD County at least has ICU beds available.


----------



## whatithink

watfly said:


> They said on the news yesterday that in California they were allowing hospitals to increase the ICU patient to nurse ratio from 2:1 to 3:1.  Sounds like a desperation move.  SD County at least has ICU beds available.


Yes, the number of ICU beds is a slightly misleading measure. They should equally be tracking the number if ICU nurses. 

I genuinely don't get some people's attitude when they blame everyone else for temporarily imposing on their lives, while they also expect various other people to go above and beyond continually just so that they don't get put out for a small (relatively) period of time, in extraordinary circumstances.

The self absorbed attitude of people continually astounds me. There's a hell of a lot of mature toddlers wandering about.


----------



## crush

whatithink said:


> *I genuinely don't get some people's attitude when they blame everyone else for temporarily imposing on their lives, while they also expect various other people to go above and beyond continually just so that they don't get put out for a small (relatively) period of time, in extraordinary circumstances.*
> 
> The self absorbed attitude of people continually astounds me. There's a hell of a lot of mature toddlers wandering about.


Q, do you have a job?  Have you ever started your own business?  Have you ever lost everything and have -$100 in bank?  Honest Q because I dont know you.  Thank you and TGIG to you


----------



## whatithink

crush said:


> Q, do you have a job?  Have you ever started your own business?  Have you ever lost everything and have -$100 in bank?  Honest Q because I dont know you.  Thank you and TGIG to you


I've had my share of ups and downs and been at a lot lower than -$100. I've also been financially impacted in the last 10 months, but its temporary. Everything I have or own, I have earned, nothing given, literally zero, ever.

None of that is important. There are a long line of people on this thread and others paying $500+ or more per weekend to have their kids play soccer in AZ. I'm going out on a limb and assuming they aren't hurting too much financially from the pandemic. Their sense of entitlement and me/me/me attitude is astounding.

You are 100% correct that a lot of people are genuinely hurting due to this, due to businesses closing down and jobs being lost. I've repeatedly said that getting businesses open and people back at work and kids going to school (in person) should be the priority. There *have* to be protocols around doing those as safely as possible, but if we all pull together and do the right thing, its really not very difficult.

I also think kids should be playing sports, but from a priority perspective its low down the list. I do find it bizarre that people who are adamant and loud about their kids playing soccer are also extremely negative about the very protocols that, if everyone followed, would allow that to happen. 

Cake & eat it .... let everyone or anyone else suffer, just not me or mine.


----------



## watfly

whatithink said:


> The self absorbed attitude of people continually astounds me. There's a hell of a lot of mature toddlers wandering about.


I couldn't agree with you more, its shameful how people are willing to support the shutdown of entire industries and destroy people's livelihoods (and all the negative impacts that follow) out of their fear of catching a virus that is overwhelmingly unlikely to impact them.  More disturbing is that some are willing to place the bulk of the burden on children and not allow them to attend school and to negatively impact our society in the long term. Some are so self absorbed that they can't understand how the mandates disproportionally impact the underprivileged further increasing the gap between the haves and the have nots.  So self absorbed that they allow fear, and not science, to drive the decision making.  Fortunately, we have some mature judges that believe decisions should be made based upon the science.

Our first responders, particularly nurses, deserve all the gratitude and true hero status.  We also owe a huge debt of gratitude to our grocery workers, retail clerks, food service employees, etc that have put aside their fears and showed up to work everyday.  I also would like to give a shout out to all the delivery workers, they've kept what remains of our economy flowing and are now integral to the roll out of the vaccine.   I just hope that once we are through this we can return some of our demand for products back to small business, my fear is that too much has been lost to the uber online retailers and that we've lost too many small business to the lockdown.


----------



## crush

whatithink said:


> I've had my share of ups and downs and been at a lot lower than -$100. I've also been financially impacted in the last 10 months, but its temporary. Everything I have or own, I have earned, nothing given, literally zero, ever.
> 
> *None of that is important. There are a long line of people on this thread and others paying $500+ or more per weekend to have their kids play soccer in AZ. I'm going out on a limb and assuming they aren't hurting too much financially from the pandemic. Their sense of entitlement and me/me/me attitude is astounding.
> 
> You are 100% correct that a lot of people are genuinely hurting* due to this, due to businesses closing down and jobs being lost. I've repeatedly said that getting businesses open and people back at work and kids going to school (in person) should be the priority.


I got a family member to help.  You see, my dd decided not to email D1 coaches back in 8th grade.  She was excited about the date June 15th.  All the experts on here and at the clubs told us the coaches need to see new highlights, not ones from 2018.  So we took the drive on a chance of a life time that she would finally get a chance to talk to a coach.  I'm happy to say that it worked out for her and was worth the $500 that a family member helped us with.  Thanks family member 

Regarding 100% that some are "genuinely hurting" is really saying, "They got picked as non-essential and SOL all the while Jimmy's Pot Shop & Delivery Service is killing it and is bringing in cash like you wouldnt believe.  The problem with this country right now is that millions got picked as non-essential from the power players that said who is essential and what is and what is not essential.  Maybe church is essential for some and the strip joint for others.  That is why people are pissed off.


----------



## dad4

watfly said:


> I couldn't agree with you more, its shameful how people are willing to support the shutdown of entire industries and destroy people's livelihoods (and all the negative impacts that follow) out of their *fear of catching a virus that is overwhelmingly unlikely to impact them.*  More disturbing is that some are willing to place the bulk of the burden on children and not allow them to attend school and to negatively impact our society in the long term. Some are so self absorbed that they can't understand how the mandates disproportionally impact the underprivileged further increasing the gap between the haves and the have nots.  So self absorbed that they allow fear, and not science, to drive the decision making.  Fortunately, we have some mature judges that believe decisions should be made based upon the science.
> 
> Our first responders, particularly nurses, deserve all the gratitude and true hero status.  We also owe a huge debt of gratitude to our grocery workers, retail clerks, food service employees, etc that have put aside their fears and showed up to work everyday.  I also would like to give a shout out to all the delivery workers, they've kept what remains of our economy flowing and are now integral to the roll out of the vaccine.   I just hope that once we are through this we can return some of our demand for products back to small business, my fear is that too much has been lost to the uber online retailers and that we've lost too many small business to the lockdown.


Why is it unreasonable for someone to act out of fear that someone else will be harmed?  Do all of my actions have to benefit me personally, or am I permitted to do things for the good of society at large?

At the moment, driving hundreds of miles to stay in a hotel in AZ is a really bad way to pump money into the economy.  If you want to spend money to help employment, call up your local restaurant and order yourself a feast.  Buy enough so you don’t have to cook lunch tomorrow.


----------



## watfly

dad4 said:


> Why is it unreasonable for someone to act out of fear that someone else will be harmed?  Do all of my actions have to benefit me personally, or am I permitted to do things for the good of society at large?
> 
> At the moment, driving hundreds of miles to stay in a hotel in AZ is a really bad way to pump money into the economy.  If you want to spend money to help employment, call up your local restaurant and order yourself a feast.  Buy enough so you don’t have to cook lunch tomorrow.


I really don't disagree with you, in fact, looking at the "bigger picture" was my point.  Just a matter of perspective I guess based upon what angle you look at this.  It's not unreasonable to have fear for the health of others, its unreasonable to make decisions based on those fears that aren't supported by science or that have a small likelihood of helping others, particularly at the known harm to another group.

Between the two, I agree order a bunch of takeout.  Please tip 20% if you can afford it.  I'm not so delusional that I think that people are going to Arizona to help the economy.  Maybe their going for the mental health of their kids, or may be they are going for selfish reasons.  Whatever reason is fine with me because there is no evidence that these outdoor soccer events are spreader events.   Just be smart when you are out there.


----------



## Desert Hound

dad4 said:


> Why is it unreasonable for someone to act out of fear that someone else will be harmed?


Because your response to your fear is to want to put other families out of biz. Put their employees out of biz, etc. To stop in person schooling, etc.


----------



## dad4

Desert Hound said:


> Because your response to your fear is to want to put other families out of biz. Put their employees out of biz, etc. To stop in person schooling, etc.


If your biz spreads disease, you need a backup plan.

I won't support filling the intensive care units just because Hound needs to make a payment on his vacation home.


----------



## Desert Hound

dad4 said:


> If your biz spreads disease, you need a backup plan.
> 
> I won't support filling the intensive care units just because Hound needs to make a payment on his vacation home.


And that is your problem right there. The vast vast majority of the biz you want to shut down need that just to survive and pay for the rent/mortgage/schooling, etc. And their employees? The same. 

You have the luxury of ruining other people financially because you can sit at home as a teacher and still get full pay. You have no concept of what your preferred policies are doing to 10s of millions of people.


----------



## dad4

Desert Hound said:


> And that is your problem right there. The vast vast majority of the biz you want to shut down need that just to survive and pay for the rent/mortgage/schooling, etc. And their employees? The same.
> 
> You have the luxury of ruining other people financially because you can sit at home as a teacher and still get full pay. You have no concept of what your preferred policies are doing to 10s of millions of people.


Oh get off it.  You could easily choose to order takeout and toss a 20 in the tip jar when you pick it up.

The fact that you instead choose to eat in the restaurant is all about you and has nothing to do with helping other people.


----------



## whatithink

watfly said:


> I couldn't agree with you more, its shameful how people are willing to support the shutdown of entire industries and destroy people's livelihoods (and all the negative impacts that follow) out of their fear of catching a virus that is overwhelmingly unlikely to impact them.  More disturbing is that some are willing to place the bulk of the burden on children and not allow them to attend school and to negatively impact our society in the long term. Some are so self absorbed that they can't understand how the mandates disproportionally impact the underprivileged further increasing the gap between the haves and the have nots.  So self absorbed that they allow fear, and not science, to drive the decision making.  Fortunately, we have some mature judges that believe decisions should be made based upon the science.
> 
> Our first responders, particularly nurses, deserve all the gratitude and true hero status.  We also owe a huge debt of gratitude to our grocery workers, retail clerks, food service employees, etc that have put aside their fears and showed up to work everyday.  I also would like to give a shout out to all the delivery workers, they've kept what remains of our economy flowing and are now integral to the roll out of the vaccine.   I just hope that once we are through this we can return some of our demand for products back to small business, my fear is that too much has been lost to the uber online retailers and that we've lost too many small business to the lockdown.


The industry I work in has been hugely impacted. I have a *long* list of friends and colleagues that have been let go. The judges didn't make any decisions on science, they did it on the law and based it on whether there was government overreach of their legal powers. 

Science is constantly learning. 100% agree that kids should be in school and playing sports. I also think that everyone should be taking the responsible route to ensure businesses can stay open.

I have no doubt that the nurses et al all advocate adherence to the protocols; wash hands, wear masks, social distance etc. to slow the spread and ensure that we have the resources available to treat those that do get sick and don't end up in a situation like Italy was in, where their doctors and nurses had to decide who got treated and who did not ... who lives and who dies.

I also 100% agree on the take over from the likes of Amazon and the cannibalization of restaurant margins by the likes of Uber eats. That's not good. Check out what one person in Canada did who was equally concerned about the loss of local businesses.









						Home | Not Amazon
					

A local guide of (mostly) user-submitted small businesses to support and cherish!




					www.not-amazon.ca


----------



## Desert Hound

dad4 said:


> Oh get off it.  You could easily choose to order takeout and toss a 20 in the tip jar when you pick it up.
> 
> The fact that you instead choose to eat in the restaurant is all about you and has nothing to do with helping other people.


Again that shows your arrogance. You have no idea. Just do takeout. Sounds a lot like..."Let them eat cake". 

Restaurants cannot survive on takeout alone or even at a 25% capacity. That is the restaurant itself. Further reducing the amount of customers coming in also means cutting back on employees.

There are long supply chains reliant on for instance just the restaurant industry. When restaurants cannot open or are severely reduced it affects all the downstream biz the supports the restaurant industry.

You have no idea or do not care that your preferred policy choices devastate 10s of millions.


----------



## MrCruett

dad4 said:


> If your biz spreads disease, you need a backup plan.
> 
> I won't support filling the intensive care units just because Hound needs to make a payment on his vacation home.


Stop thinking all business owners are rich. Most aren't.


----------



## watfly

whatithink said:


> The industry I work in has been hugely impacted. I have a *long* list of friends and colleagues that have been let go. The judges didn't make any decisions on science, they did it on the law and based it on whether there was government overreach of their legal powers.
> 
> Science is constantly learning. 100% agree that kids should be in school and playing sports. I also think that everyone should be taking the responsible route to ensure businesses can stay open.
> 
> I have no doubt that the nurses et al all advocate adherence to the protocols; wash hands, wear masks, social distance etc. to slow the spread and ensure that we have the resources available to treat those that do get sick and don't end up in a situation like Italy was in, where their doctors and nurses had to decide who got treated and who did not ... who lives and who dies.
> 
> I also 100% agree on the take over from the likes of Amazon and the cannibalization of restaurant margins by the likes of Uber eats. That's not good. Check out what one person in Canada did who was equally concerned about the loss of local businesses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Home | Not Amazon
> 
> 
> A local guide of (mostly) user-submitted small businesses to support and cherish!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.not-amazon.ca


I stand corrected on Judges ruling on the science, but they do rule on the evidence that involves science.

On thing that has impressed me is how creative some of these small businesses have gotten with their Covid protections and/or sales methods.  I guess that is part of my frustration when you have blanket shutdowns.   Some places have gone above and beyond to protect their customers but still get shutdown.

Sorry for your friends.  My friends and colleagues have been a little more fortunate, although I have one friend that owns a few bars.  He's always upbeat when I see him and is optimistic he will have a huge recovery.


----------



## happy9

MrCruett said:


> Stop thinking all business owners are rich. Most aren't.


You are so right - most aren't.  What they normally are is optimistic and protective.  What small business wants people to do, today, up against the backdrop of what's happening in AZ/CA, is to *not* participate in behavior that encourages overreaching politicians to create policies that further restrict how they are currently operating.  

Small business is going above and beyond to operate within the scientific and unscientific based directives mandated by our fearless politicians.   I can promise you 3 days of soccer in AZ is not going to save small business.  A 15-30 day lockdown is a death sentence to many.

For those that are so gung ho about their exerting their rights, have at it, come play if allowed.  Come and go knowing that your behavior collectively means something.  If Surf happens and there isn't a negative effect, then it's a win win for all.  If Surf happens, cases continue to rise,, then it's a win/lose.

I'm not naive enough to blame the act of playing soccer (my kids play) on case spread.  That's not the point.  The point is people are emotional dummies, especially elected and un-elected officials.  That's the concern for small business.  Some may be bad mouthing Surf.  I don't care about Surf as an organization.  My kids have been playing against Surf teams for some time now, we like playing them and have benefitted.  Their schtick about caring for your players is weak..


----------



## NorCalDad

Desert Hound said:


> Restaurants cannot survive on takeout alone or even at a 25% capacity. That is the restaurant itself. Further reducing the amount of customers coming in also means cutting back on employees.


If only there was an entity that could bail out these businesses.  I feel like we've seen this happen before.  Oh yeah, back in 2008/2009....when banks that were apparently "too big to fail" got tons of tax payer dollars even though the mess was largely created by them.  I guess small businesses are...well..too small to get bailed out.  Or perhaps we have a bunch of asshats in DC.  Perhaps you're calling out the wrong people.


----------



## Desert Hound

NorCalDad said:


> If only there was an entity that could bail out these businesses.  I feel like we've seen this happen before.  Oh yeah, back in 2008/2009....when banks that were apparently "too big to fail" got tons of tax payer dollars even though the mess was largely created by them.  I guess small businesses are...well..too small to get bailed out.  Or perhaps we have a bunch of asshats in DC.  Perhaps you're calling out the wrong people.


I am not calling out the wrong people. Today the places open are the biggest companies..ie Target, Walmart, etc. Exactly the companies @dad4  is fine with. The problem is those places have thousands coming in each day, and yet we shut down mom and pops that get far fewer per day...and @dad4  is all for that.


----------



## dad4

Desert Hound said:


> I am not calling out the wrong people. Today the places open are the biggest companies..ie Target, Walmart, etc. Exactly the companies @dad4  is fine with. The problem is those places have thousands coming in each day, and yet we shut down mom and pops that get far fewer per day...and @dad4  is all for that.


I can speak for myself, thanks.  You have it backwards.

We don’t want everyone crowding into walmart and costco all at once.  If we all shop in the same big box, we have way too many people sharing the same air.  You’re better off buying what you need from a small store.  A lot of them will do curbside pickup if you phone it in.


----------



## Glitterhater

watfly said:


> I really don't disagree with you, in fact, looking at the "bigger picture" was my point.  Just a matter of perspective I guess based upon what angle you look at this.  It's not unreasonable to have fear for the health of others, its unreasonable to make decisions based on those fears that aren't supported by science or that have a small likelihood of helping others, particularly at the known harm to another group.
> 
> Between the two, I agree order a bunch of takeout.  Please tip 20% if you can afford it.  I'm not so delusional that I think that people are going to Arizona to help the economy.  Maybe their going for the mental health of their kids, or may be they are going for selfish reasons.  Whatever reason is fine with me because there is no evidence that these outdoor soccer events are spreader events.   Just be smart when you are out there.


Along the same gratitude vein- we put out a snack/drink box, (yes, all individually wrapped so don't accuse me of spreading COVID!) that delivery drivers, (mail, UPS, FedEx, Doordash, you get the idea,) can take any time they wish. Some of those drivers are so slammed they barely come up for air, let alone eat.


----------



## MacDre

Desert Hound said:


> I am not calling out the wrong people. Today the places open are the biggest companies..ie Target, Walmart, etc. Exactly the companies @dad4  is fine with. The problem is those places have thousands coming in each day, and yet we shut down mom and pops that get far fewer per day...and @dad4  is all for that.


You may be preaching to the choir.  Most folks in Norcal support mom and pops even if their prices aren’t competitive.  I would even go as far as saying this mentality is part of the local culture and is even taught in schools to kids.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

Desert Hound said:


> I am not calling out the wrong people. Today the places open are the biggest companies..ie Target, Walmart, etc. Exactly the companies @dad4  is fine with. The problem is those places have thousands coming in each day, and yet we shut down mom and pops that get far fewer per day...and @dad4  is all for that.


agreed.   The transmission is coming from those big box stores with hundreds of people packed in isles on the weekends.     Restaurants have it tough.   The spread in restaurants in real but to let them open at 25% capacity makes zero sense.  

Here’s what I would do for restaurants: 
- no taxes for 2020 to 2021
- no license fees required 
- loans available with zero interest for 5 years 
- allow use of parking lots for outdoors
- all expenses related to quarantine can be reimbursed by the state. 
- state entities enticed to purchase meals from local restaurants (this idea is too vague but some way to promote local police and other offices to support small restaurants)


----------



## Chelsea dad g09

dad4 said:


> If your biz spreads disease, you need a backup plan.


Wow. This statement right here is almost as out of touch as our politicians are.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Glitterhater said:


> Along the same gratitude vein- we put out a snack/drink box, (yes, all individually wrapped so don't accuse me of spreading COVID!) that delivery drivers, (mail, UPS, FedEx, Doordash, you get the idea,) can take any time they wish. Some of those drivers are so slammed they barely come up for air, let alone eat.


What a nice idea.


----------



## dad4

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> Wow. This statement right here is almost as out of touch as our politicians are.


You think we should keep indoor dining open?  

Ok.  What's your plan for ICU bed staffing?  'Cause you'll need it for the case spike that will follow.

And how should we help non restaurant small businesses when the case spike kills their foot traffic?


----------



## MrCruett

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> Wow. This statement right here is almost as out of touch as our politicians are.


If the glove don't fit, you must acquit.


----------



## Grace T.

dad4 said:


> You think we should keep indoor dining open?
> 
> Ok.  What's your plan for ICU bed staffing?  'Cause you'll need it for the case spike that will follow.
> 
> And how should we help non restaurant small businesses when the case spike kills their foot traffic?


Indoor dining has been closed in Los Angeles from the beginning.  Hasn't stopped anything.


----------



## jimlewis

Grace T. said:


> Indoor dining has been closed in Los Angeles from the beginning.  Hasn't stopped anything.


closing indoor dining has just opened in home gatherings.


----------



## Chelsea dad g09

dad4 said:


> You think we should keep indoor dining open?
> 
> Ok.  What's your plan for ICU bed staffing?  'Cause you'll need it for the case spike that will follow.
> 
> And how should we help non restaurant small businesses when the case spike kills their foot traffic?


Nope but the restaurants back up plan, outdoor dining should absolutely be open.

How about this, what's your plan for providing income to shuttered businesses? For paying their mortgages? For feeding their families?

Ok. What's your plan for more room at homeless shelters? Cause you'll need it when the business owners lose everything.


----------



## dad4

Grace T. said:


> Indoor dining has been closed in Los Angeles from the beginning.  Hasn't stopped anything.


One factor among many.

As Jim notes, if everyone just has a dinner party because the restaurant is closed, it doesn't help much.  

LA may be close to done.  You're at 5.9% confirmed.  Some states went into decline at 6.5%.

Out would not surprise me at all if LA has a big Christmas spike, but declines quickly in January.


----------



## dad4

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> Nope but the restaurants back up plan, outdoor dining should absolutely be open.
> 
> How about this, what's your plan for providing income to shuttered businesses? For paying their mortgages? For feeding their families?
> 
> Ok. What's your plan for more room at homeless shelters? Cause you'll need it when the business owners lose everything.


I only object to indoor dining.  Outdoor dining is a completely different question.  Especially if there is a breeze.

Given Jim's point about indoor dining at private homes, opening outdoor dining may even reduce overall cases.   This assumes that patio dining replaces dinner parties.


----------



## Chelsea dad g09

dad4 said:


> I only object to indoor dining.  Outdoor dining is a completely different question.  Especially if there is a breeze.
> 
> Given Jim's point about indoor dining at private homes, opening outdoor dining may even reduce overall cases.   This assumes that patio dining replaces dinner parties.


Not at all what you said. You said to get a back up plan, well the state shut down their back up plan so now what?


----------



## dad4

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> Not at all what you said. You said to get a back up plan, well the state shut down their back up plan so now what?


Not here to defend everything Newsom does any more than you are here to defend everything Trump does.

If you want to talk paycheck replacement for waiters, that's a real discussion.

If you want to ask that we infect more people so that hound can make a buck, you're crazy.


----------



## Chelsea dad g09

dad4 said:


> Not here to defend everything Newsom does any more than you are here to defend everything Trump does.
> 
> If you want to talk paycheck replacement for waiters, that's a real discussion.
> 
> If you want to ask that we infect more people so that hound can make a buck, you're crazy.


Not sure if you're deflecting what you wrote on purpose or just dont even realize what you wrote but I cant anymore. It would just be talking in circles.


----------



## crush

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> Not sure if you're deflecting what you wrote on purpose or just dont even realize what you wrote but I cant anymore. It would just be talking in circles.


----------



## dad4

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> Not sure if you're deflecting what you wrote on purpose or just dont even realize what you wrote but I cant anymore. It would just be talking in circles.


What I've said is perfectly clear.  We should close the things that significantly spread the disease.  I don't understand why this is a radical thought, but it clearly is.


----------



## Chelsea dad g09

dad4 said:


> What I've said is perfectly clear.  We should close the things that significantly spread the disease.  I don't understand why this is a radical thought, but it clearly is.


Hold up, you stated businesses needed a back up plan, the state shut down their back up plan without regard to their livelihoods and now its I'm defending Trump whom I've never mentioned on this forum or didnt even vote for FYI. You politicized just like Newsom. Nobody including myself mentioned indoor dining should be open. Sure, perfectly clear.


----------



## dad4

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> Hold up, you stated businesses needed a back up plan, the state shut down their back up plan without regard to their livelihoods and now its I'm defending Trump whom I've never mentioned on this forum or didnt even vote for FYI. You politicized just like Newsom. Nobody including myself mentioned indoor dining should be open. Sure, perfectly clear.


Not nobody.  Hound has been advocating indoor dining since May.   Still is.  Arizona for him, not LA.  They’ve had a lot of indoor dining open, and have had very high case rates as a result.


----------



## whatithink

Awesome numbers from AZ today, hospital beds at 93% of capacity. HS has also moved their season start from 5/1 to 18/1 in anticipation of a post holidays surge.

Go Surf.

Arizona reports over 100 virus deaths for 3rd straight day (abc15.com)


----------



## kickingandscreaming

dad4 said:


> Not nobody.  Hound has been advocating indoor dining since May.   Still is.  Arizona for him, not LA.  They’ve had a lot of indoor dining open, and have had very high case rates as a result.


Look who is ahead of AZ now.


----------



## happy9

whatithink said:


> Awesome numbers from AZ today, hospital beds at 93% of capacity. HS has also moved their season start from 5/1 to 18/1 in anticipation of a post holidays surge.
> 
> Go Surf.
> 
> Arizona reports over 100 virus deaths for 3rd straight day (abc15.com)


It's cool, they are just playing soccer and staying in their cars.


----------



## whatithink

happy9 said:


> It's cool, they are just playing soccer and staying in their cars.


Yeah, they are super responsible, selfless individuals which can always be relied upon to do the right thing for the greater good.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

whatithink said:


> Yeah, they are super responsible, selfless individuals which can always be relied upon to do the right thing for the greater good.


For the record, I am pretty sure we have all broken a rule or two over the past 8 months of covid restrictions.    I know I broke it 20 times playing some type of soccer this year.


----------



## whatithink

SoccerFan4Life said:


> For the record, I am pretty sure we have all broken a rule or two over the past 8 months of covid restrictions.    I know I broke it 20 times playing some type of soccer this year.


Yeah, there stretching the rules and then there's driving your, say, 11 year old GOAT 6+ hours to a state that is seeing record cases, record daily deaths and record hospitalizations. Clearly those 3 days of soccer will make or break that 11 year olds prospects for the future. Fortunately, you, as the adult in the room, know that this tournament and your GOATs participation will ensure that they stay ahead of the pack. You'll know that this decision, that you made, will be the final nail that ensured they became the player you dream nightly that they will be.


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## SoccerFan4Life

whatithink said:


> Yeah, there stretching the rules and then there's driving your, say, 11 year old GOAT 6+ hours to a state that is seeing record cases, record daily deaths and record hospitalizations. Clearly those 3 days of soccer will make or break that 11 year olds prospects for the future. Fortunately, you, as the adult in the room, know that this tournament and your GOATs participation will ensure that they stay ahead of the pack. You'll know that this decision, that you made, will be the final nail that ensured they became the player you dream nightly that they will be.


True.  Our family has strict rules: no hotels, no vacations, no indoor dining, and minimal trips to box stores or markets.    We learned our lesson on thanksgiving gatherings ( 3 covid cases and 1 scare with my son).   Outdoor activities is open game every day.  Futsal is open game every week.


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## jimlewis

whatithink said:


> Yeah, there stretching the rules and then there's driving your, say, 11 year old GOAT 6+ hours to a state that is seeing record cases, record daily deaths and record hospitalizations. Clearly those 3 days of soccer will make or break that 11 year olds prospects for the future. Fortunately, you, as the adult in the room, know that this tournament and your GOATs participation will ensure that they stay ahead of the pack. You'll know that this decision, that you made, will be the final nail that ensured they became the player you dream nightly that they will be.


would it be more palatable for you if they flew 45 minutes instead?


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## whatithink

jimlewis said:


> would it be more palatable for you if they flew 45 minutes instead?


No, just another demonstration of parental ego over coming common sense.


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## dad4

Apple just closed all CA stores 5 days before Christmas.

Online still open.  But I don’t think they’d give up on that much revenue if they thought it was overblown.


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## jimlewis

dad4 said:


> Apple just closed all CA stores 5 days before Christmas.
> 
> Online still open.  But I don’t think they’d give up on that much revenue if they thought it was overblown.


phew, good thing the tournament isnt in CA.


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## dad4

jimlewis said:


> phew, good thing the tournament isnt in CA.


Yeah, it is not the in second worst state.  It’s in the fifth worst state.  The change of location makes all the difference.


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## happy9

jimlewis said:


> would it be more palatable for you if they flew 45 minutes instead?


It would be more palatable if people would wait, just like we are in AZ for the HS season.  

Not saying don't come, just don't come now.  But it's your choice, which is a decent enough argument under most circumstances.  

92% capacity ICU/inpatient beds, staff not available, ED nearly full everyday.  Sounds like a place I'd want to go for Christmas.  But I get it, your choice and not mad about it.  A bit confused, not mad.

I will tell you this, the governor of this state is being pushed hard to mimic measures being taken in other states, specifically CA.  I don't believe lockdowns are very effective at combating the virus, but they are effective at screwing small business.  I also know that politicians still get paid during lockdowns and will leverage useless data to achieve their goals.  They are also good at getting fake fired up over headlines.


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## El Clasico

happy9 said:


> It would be more palatable if people would wait, just like we are in AZ for the HS season.
> 
> Not saying don't come, just don't come now.  But it's your choice, which is a decent enough argument under most circumstances.
> 
> 92% capacity ICU/inpatient beds, staff not available, ED nearly full everyday.  Sounds like a place I'd want to go for Christmas.  But I get it, your choice and not mad about it.  A bit confused, not mad.
> 
> I will tell you this, the governor of this state is being pushed hard to mimic measures being taken in other states, specifically CA.  I don't believe lockdowns are very effective at combating the virus, but they are effective at screwing small business.  I also know that politicians still get paid during lockdowns and will leverage useless data to achieve their goals.  They are also good at getting fake fired up over headlines.


Did I understand you correctly?  The governor of AZ is being pushed hard to mimic the measures being taken by one of only two states worse than your own?  Why wouldn't they push him to mimic a state that is much better off than his own if he has to mimic anyone?


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## happy9

El Clasico said:


> Did I understand you correctly?  The governor of AZ is being pushed hard to mimic the measures being taken by one of only two states worse than your own?  Why wouldn't they push him to mimic a state that is much better off than his own if he has to mimic anyone?


Yes, you read that correctly. obviously you are no politician, which is good.  If you are an az native, then you should know what's going on locally, if you aren't a native, do some research.

This isn't about common sense, it's about elected and non elected officials wanting to seem as if they are doing something.  

This is the environment we are currently operating in.  You decide which direction AZ is being pushed to go.   You are already there. Tucson and Pima county are under curfew.

Yes, people still have a choice to come to AZ for the holidays, I doubt we close borders.  It's your choice.  But coming at the behest of an organization that is encouraging travel at the height of a hysteric pandemic that is front page news ----is just dumb and does nothing for anyone here in AZ. But have at, justify it anyway you can, even framing it as your right and freedom to do so,, which it is, but really...









						Arizona is STILL No. 1 in the nation for COVID-19 spread and STILL Gov. Ducey does nothing
					

Arizona continues to have the nation's highest transmission rate of COVID-19 and Gov. Doug Ducey's response is, as usual, underwhelming.



					www.azcentral.com
				












						Ducey has no plans for new restrictions or continued eviction relief as COVID spikes
					

Gov. Doug Ducey won't impose new restrictions on individuals or businesses despite what appears to be a record number of daily COVID-19 cases in Arizona and a trend pushing higher.




					tucson.com


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## dad4

El Clasico said:


> Did I understand you correctly?  The governor of AZ is being pushed hard to mimic the measures being taken by one of only two states worse than your own?  Why wouldn't they push him to mimic a state that is much better off than his own if he has to mimic anyone?


The main reason the upper midwest has low daily case counts is that they ran out of people to infect.

I'm not sure copying North Dakota will get you the results you want.


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## Kicker4Life

dad4 said:


> Apple just closed all CA stores 5 days before Christmas.
> 
> Online still open.  But I don’t think they’d give up on that much revenue if they thought it was overblown.


More people buying online than walking into a retail store right now.  Not giving up that much revenue at all.


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## Desert Hound

dad4 said:


> Not nobody. Hound has been advocating indoor dining since May. Still is. Arizona for him, not LA. They’ve had a lot of indoor dining open, and have had very high case rates as a result.


As usual more fact free assertions. If indoor dining is the cause of the rise in cases in AZ we would have seen it months ago. Instead our rise mirrors the timeline of pretty much every other state.

We didn't start eating out in Oct in AZ. We have been eating INSIDE since May.


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## crush

[


dad4 said:


> Apple just closed all CA stores 5 days before Christmas.
> 
> Online still open.  But I don’t think they’d give up on that much revenue if they thought it was overblown.


They have so much money they could close for a year and be ok.  Come on man!!!


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## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> As usual more fact free assertions. If indoor dining is the cause of the rise in cases in AZ we would have seen it months ago. Instead our rise mirrors the timeline of pretty much every other state.
> 
> We didn't start eating out in Oct in AZ. We have been eating INSIDE since May.


True dat - Definitely seasonality involved, kinda like the changing of the license plates.


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## socalkdg

We have stricter guidelines at our work than we did 3 months ago.   Didn't matter.  75 employees.    5 cases of Covid in the last 2 weeks, 10 others quarantined with some symptoms or had housemates that had Covid.  We had made it through October and November with no cases.   December with everyone inside isn't helping.   Missing my whole engineering department (2 people) and half my tooling department (2 people).


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## Grace T.

As a Latino myself, I gotta say this is riskier than going to a tournament.......









						Defying the pandemic, Latinos missing loved ones travel to their homelands for the holiday
					

Latinos in California are reuniting with their loved ones in Mexico and Central America at the holidays despite dangers posed by COVID-19.




					www.latimes.com


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## NorCalDad

Grace T. said:


> As a Latino myself, I gotta say this is riskier than going to a tournament.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defying the pandemic, Latinos missing loved ones travel to their homelands for the holiday
> 
> 
> Latinos in California are reuniting with their loved ones in Mexico and Central America at the holidays despite dangers posed by COVID-19.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.latimes.com


Yup. This is the most frustrating thing about all of this. Soccer is nowhere on the radar of being risky. There's mountains of data supporting this. Our October numbers were fantastic. What changed? Seems pretty obvious to me. People let their guard down, hung out with friends, gathered indoors in groups. Whether that was for Halloween or Thanksgiving. Plus for counties that made it to orange and yellow...they saw more indoor dining happening.  I suspect we're probably going to be screwed after Xmas. All of our politicians are complete morons. You have the Orange Man at the federal level more interested in his own finances and staying out of jail. Then you got Newsom dining at the french laundry doing exactly what he's telling people not to do. It's so incredibly stupid. If only people voted for people who actually cared about their constituents as opposed to their party and lobbyists.  In the end our kids get the raw end of the deal because adults don't know how to act like adults.


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## Grace T.

NorCalDad said:


> Yup. This is the most frustrating thing about all of this. Soccer is nowhere on the radar of being risky. There's mountains of data supporting this. Our October numbers were fantastic. What changed? Seems pretty obvious to me. People let their guard down, hung out with friends, gathered indoors in groups. Whether that was for Halloween or Thanksgiving. Plus for counties that made it to orange and yellow...they saw more indoor dining happening.  I suspect we're probably going to be screwed after Xmas. All of our politicians are complete morons. You have the Orange Man at the federal level more interested in his own finances and staying out of jail. Then you got Newsom dining at the french laundry doing exactly what he's telling people not to do. It's so incredibly stupid. If only people voted for people who actually cared about their constituents as opposed to their party and lobbyists.  In the end our kids get the raw end of the deal because adults don't know how to act like adults.


It's not just the politicians.  But also the health experts.  Fauci with the masks but when the cameras aren't on he takes them off (he's been caught 4 or 5 times now).  Birx telling people not to gather but then she has a Thanksgiving/not-Thanksgiving.  Fergueson (the architect of lockdowns) who then takes a booty call.

To some extent, though, one problem we have is that all this goes against human nature.  If these experts can't honor their own rules, it's really not surprising the politicians and the peons can't.  Remember, if we really think we want people to distance for the length of time of the emergency and wear masks around others, we are asking people who aren't married or who aren't living together to basically be celibate for 1 year plus.

Besides gatherings the other issue is work.  As the San Diego numbers showed, Tom Cruise has a point....if you work you socialize.  Los Angeles freeways are almost full to normal during rush hour, and that's people working.  No one could shut the economy down for a year +.

A better solution would have been to have saved the lockdown bullet for the winter wave they told us all was coming, instead of wasting it during the fall and summer.


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## SoccerFan4Life

Vitamin D, other everyday vitamins could counter coronavirus effects: report
					

Using simple, everyday medicines available in your medicine cabinet or on your kitchen counter could counter the effects of coronavirus, a report said Thursday.




					www.google.com
				



Vitamin D is the answer!  Time to open up.


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