# Finding equally dedicated soccer players



## SplitSoccerFamMom (Apr 7, 2019)

Conversation starter: Is it possible to field a team of equally dedicated soccer players? Would a well spelled out contract at the start of the season assist with laying out expectations? What kind of ‘punnishment’ would be appropriate for breaking these contract rules? Missing so many practices or games without an injury excuse.  Fines or service time to the club?

I understand that this is youth soccer but without kids showing up to play, the learning process of all the kids is hindered. With the amount of money we all invest, I see this an impact to my investment. You can’t teach set piece plays without your starters in attendance.

Is it possible to achieve a more unified level of dedication?  How best do you think a player can choose a team to assure that the players are as equally dedicated as they are?
Thanks for your feedback.


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## Frank (Apr 7, 2019)

I don't think you have that anywhere in life with a group of 18 people.  I would say at the higher levels of play the more likely to be gpoing int he right direction.


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## Speed (Apr 7, 2019)

Agree with the higher level of play. Other things come into play as well...if the club and coach uphold all their obligations then the players should/will as well. However when that doesn’t happen you will see committed players and families lose motivation. I.e, use that motivation to find a new team while still meeting their game commitments.


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## timbuck (Apr 7, 2019)

Part of the problem with pay to play and the massive expansion of club soccer. 
1.  Parents know that clubs want the money from players.  As long as they’ve paid, they feel their kid should get on the field. 
2.  Years ago- there was a threat of getting cut from a team because of the things you mentioned.  Some clubs may still cut players for this, but players know they can find a new team pretty quickly.  (They’ll Just have to write the check). 

Find a team that is the right level-  the more competitive, the more you’ll have kids at most practices. Instead of a kid missing because it’s their aunts cats 4th birthday party.


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## ForumParent (Apr 7, 2019)

Is there a certain age range you have in mind for this level of commitment?


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## Soccerfan2 (Apr 7, 2019)

As others already said, the higher the level the better this gets. I don’t think you’re going to find club policies or contracts about this, but find a coach who has a clear, consistent policy on no practice no play if you can. In situations where there’s more variation in commitment and work ethic I always encourage my kids to lead by example and to gravitate to others on the team who are most committed during warmups, partner drills etc.


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## mirage (Apr 8, 2019)

SplitSoccerFamMom said:


> ......I understand that this is youth soccer but without kids showing up to play, the learning process of all the kids is hindered. *With the amount of money we all invest, I see this an impact to my investment.* You can’t teach set piece plays without your starters in attendance......


Well, first, I can certain appreciate your feelings but some perspective is needed - I believe.

The time and money spent for your kid to play soccer is an investment but not in terms of soccer.  Rather, its an investment in your own kid.  The ROI is not measure in how well set pieces are executed or wins and losses.  The ROI is measured in terms of sportsmanship, learning to compete, to win and lose, and most of all to realize the power of teamwork.  All important aspect of growing up and life learning.  I know this all sounds rhetorical and cliche but its true.

If the team dynamics is such that players are not motivated to improve and be a part of the team, then I put the blame on the coach.  It is the coach who select the players, decides what he/she is willing to put up with and lead young people by examples.  If the coach does nothing to tardy, unexcused absence and/or poor attitude, then the players will quickly think its okay to be that way because the coach is putting up with it.  Most coaches I know do not start players that miss practices, even if that happens to the best player on the team at any position, and get less minutes.

It may be hard to believe but there are plenty of teams out there at all levels of play, where they all come to practices and wanting to improve and compete.  Its the environment that the coach can set.


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## blam (Apr 8, 2019)

At higher levels, you have a different problem. The players tend to come from all over town. Some just have difficulty making time to go to practices because of traffic. Weekend practices work better but not many clubs have weekend practices.


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## TangoCity (Apr 8, 2019)

Punishment?  Don't start the player or limit playing time.  As long as you are reasonable because life happens.


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## forsomuch (Apr 8, 2019)

Not only can you not get "equally dedicated" families on a team, I don't think you could find enough people who could agree on what dedicated means. 

Best case scenario the coach lays down clear expectations and the consequences for not living up to those expectations are enforced. Must be willing to let really good players leave if they can't meet the expectations. When someone new joins the team they know before hand what is expected.  

I have seen super dedicated teams at all levels and flaky teams at all levels, it almost always depends on the effort the coach wants to put into laying down the law. If there are line of players trying to join your team it is easier to get compliance, if the team is struggling to find players often times compromises are made.


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## timbuck (Apr 8, 2019)

There are also some coaches out there that realize that there is more going on in life than just soccer.  And that if a kid shows up 5 minutes late for practice, it’s likely not the kids fault.  And that mom or dad probably tried their best to get them there, but life may have gotten in the way.  
As mentioned in a bunch of different posts over the years-  find the right coach and team that fits for you.


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## blam (Apr 8, 2019)

Also at higher level, good players but from lower income need financial aid to play club. Club that are rich enough to offer aid usually are located in rich neighbourhood. So now you again have players who can't travel to practices.


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## ToonArmy (Apr 9, 2019)

I don't know I feel my daughter has had as many teammates or parents that like the idea of being soccer players but don't love to play soccer as has been players that miss practices or games because of difficult circumstances. We have difficult circumstances it takes 45 to 30 minutes but mostly because both of us work full time and get off work at or after practice time starts. Have no nanny no grandparents to help sometimes a carpool. What's funny is a lot of times over the years the flaky ones are somewhat wealthy live close with a stay at home real housewives of OC mom. But they are tall and blonde and get a free pass lol. My daughter would freak out if we were 5 minutes late


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## jpeter (Apr 9, 2019)

Ah the search for the holy Grail, yes can happen but sometimes the journey is difficult and can better than the designation. 

Once you get with a group of dedicated players then you search out certain tournments, cups, competition to conquer.  Once these are claimed then what?  That's when things get interesting as some are'nt happy until the next trophy or championship is won.    

Sometimes we get too caught up in the chase and we forget to live in the moment and enjoy the journey,  don't be a Fisher King.


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## OrangeCountyDad (Apr 10, 2019)

All just my opinion.  I'm not a professional just a dad who has been watching this for a long time:

it would be possible if a couple things happen...


Eliminate the number of teams by ~50%
Clubs actually divide players by skill level (and desire)
Parents agree with the skill assessment of their next-big-thing-U9
Eliminate nepotism in the player selection.
Coaches are all equally proficient

I imagine you could get maybe 2 or 3 of those things, never all.

to elaborate- 


Some clubs just take whoever at whatever age level just to fill out a roster.  Thin rosters. Kids who shouldn't be there. Mixed year rosters.  Instead of saying "sorry, we don't have a G04 team" or whatever the age/gender.  Fact is, it's a business.  you need parents paying to fill the company coffer to pay for everything (or just get fields), and economies of scale kicks in.  that's not how it should happen, but that's how it does happen.
Some kids are good, but aren't committed to train.  Or they're committed to train and are hard workers but the fact is they don't belong at the level their playing because of #3 or #4.  Never forget one of my kid's former teams.  Really good striker, could ball handle, shoot, fast, strong on their feet, chop up defenders all day.  But a shit attitude.  Flat out said "I don't like to practice, it doesn't make me better" and any ball during a game that didn't land at their feet with exactly the right weight, they'd roll their eyes, throw their hands up.  Coaches liked them because they were impressive in try-outs and scored lots of goals.  But shit attitude.  Not interested in helping their teammates get better.  Not sure how you can spot that shit attitude during a 2 hour tryout.
I'll never forget my buddy playing his daughter out in Temecula, they had tryouts, then the whole division of players happens.  Some parents were INCENSED that their little Sara wasn't on the Flight 1 team.  "My kid isn't a flight 2 player."  so they took little sara and their money and went to find a club that would put Sara on the team she deserved.  Dude.  The kids were 9.  Freaking 9. 
Coaches putting their own kid on the team, a kid who has no business being at that level. nuff said.
Let's say by some magic all the other 4 things align and happen.  And you've got a great Flight 1 coach, and the Flight 2 or 3 coach is just phoning it in, not interested in developing players, just interested in collecting his paycheck, teaching run & gun long ball and the star striker from 3 cities over scoring lots of goals.  Your kid on the 2/3 team isn't going to get noticeably better.  May never make that jump to the top team.  All the kids are at the right skill level, but they're not getting better so they stagnate or quit.
realistically, we'd have to dismantle the entire system, IMO.


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## Sidekick (Apr 12, 2019)

SplitSoccerFamMom said:


> Conversation starter: Is it possible to field a team of equally dedicated soccer players? Would a well spelled out contract at the start of the season assist with laying out expectations? What kind of ‘punnishment’ would be appropriate for breaking these contract rules? Missing so many practices or games without an injury excuse.  Fines or service time to the club?
> 
> I understand that this is youth soccer but without kids showing up to play, the learning process of all the kids is hindered. With the amount of money we all invest, I see this an impact to my investment. You can’t teach set piece plays without your starters in attendance.
> 
> ...




So Cal Blues coach Greg Baker seems to have players so dedicated that they not only played club but went to play for him in high school. His rosters seem to have the least amount of turnovers. Only a few players have managed to make their way onto his rosters over the years. Baker brothers set the standard high for their player commitment. I hear vacations and special events must be put on the back burner. It seems that majority of his players get the same commitment in return because he’s managed to get his top players into D1 schools.


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## espola (Apr 12, 2019)

Sidekick said:


> So Cal Blues coach Greg Baker seems to have players so dedicated that they not only played club but went to play for him in high school. His rosters seem to have the least amount of turnovers. Only a few players have managed to make their way onto his rosters over the years. Baker brothers set the standard high for their player commitment. I hear vacations and special events must be put on the back burner. It seems that majority of his players get the same commitment in return because he’s managed to get his top players into D1 schools.


Does he attract the best players?  Or make the best players?


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## Sidekick (Apr 12, 2019)

espola said:


> Does he attract the best players?  Or make the best players?


Great question! In my opinion, I’d say he does both. The Baker brothers put teams together with the best players on the field from Blues, Chelsea, Strikers, Eclipse, Legends and Surf. Being able to draw these players takes some serious soccer mentality. I heard the expectation was very high when it came to being committed to both the team and improving themselves. You asked if he attracts or make the best players and again I’d say both because he took some of the best players out there and made them better. His players were either CIF 1st team at their HS and his JS player got player of the year. She’s smart too. I saw she has a high GPA. It’s amazing that so many can tolerate the Bakers but I think it’s the mentality that is being talked about.  The players seem to have that tough mentality and also a very high IQ for soccer. Espola you seem to know a lot...do you think he’ll be able to duplicate these teams once they graduate? Just curious if you think he can do it again. I’ve learned a lot over the years but don’t know enough to say the Bakers can.


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## ChargerPride (Apr 13, 2019)

A couple more things that I have noticed that hinder an team.

All teams have clicks, girls who have been with the team longer, friends from the neighborhood or school mates, higher level skilled players on the team as opposed to bench players, and I am sure I am not stating other reasons for girls forming clicks. As a result , sometimes you can notice that some players won't pass or play a teammate in a better position. Doesn't like the player or doesn't want the player to outshine them, or just want the glory. I see it all the time, with boys its usually different as they tend to understand the end game is to beat the other team, boys usually don't hold grudges if you prove you are there to give it you best. Boys punch it out and then move on. Girls hold grudges and well, its hard to understand them. At least as a father.. they continue to be a mystery. Minimize the clicks, and team unity is usually pretty good.

Playtime should be earned, not given. I see alot of AYSO where the bench has to play because they shouldn't just ride the bench. I understand that if my DD rode the bench. Hey she needs her minutes, especially during a game. Realistically, unless your DD is a solid bench player that can hold her own with a starter, just happens that they have a deep roster, and earns her playtime, with minimally affecting the team chemistry. The answer would be if she is not, then to move such a DD to next flight down, or possibly the age up but flight down. You'd be surprised how often playing up against olders actually help. Adding a bench player to the field and replacing a starter, just for minutes, might help the bench player, but does it really help the team. I know everyone pays on club but this shouldn't be AYSO. Playtime should be earned.

I am sure if I had more time, there is alot more we can state about getting equally dedicated players. like stated before, that is a holy grail of a team.

Lastly about Baker, from experience. He is blessed with amazing athletes, very good soccer players. His results are very impressive. His style and demeanor has results. I know plenty of D1 level DD's who don't want to just win. They want to improve their game. Long ball works in HS  and club because you can use athletes who match up favorably. Enough opportunities and eventually you get the goals and wins. I won't say it resembles the beautiful game. However when you really just want the team that can win, albeit win ugly. Baker's team do win. My DD was scouted and offered a position from Mr. Baker, we decided that the travel and our commitment to his ways were not compatible. He did not like this. His behavior when you are on his side is good, once you don't agree, he becomes a very childish man. Luckily we found a great coach who mentored my DD and got her a great D1 offer. Winning is nice, but winning beautiful is better.


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## Chalklines (Apr 13, 2019)

ChargerPride said:


> Adding a bench player to the field and replacing a starter, just for minutes, might help the bench player, but does it really help the team.


Unless a team is deep and/or a new player to the team is trying to crack the starting line up of an established team I agree here 100%



> All teams have clicks, girls who have been with the team longer, friends from the neighborhood or school mates, higher level skilled players on the team as opposed to bench players, and I am sure I am not stating other reasons for girls forming clicks. As a result , sometimes you can notice that some players won't pass or play a teammate in a better position. Doesn't like the player or doesn't want the player to outshine them, or just want the glory. I see it all the time, with boys its usually different as they tend to understand the end game is to beat the other team, boys usually don't hold grudges if you prove you are there to give it you best. Boys punch it out and then move on. Girls hold grudges and well, its hard to understand them. At least as a father.. they continue to be a mystery. Minimize the clicks, and team unity is usually pretty good.


your spot on here. ive noticed this with my DD's team (younger) more so then my sons. My DD team just added two more players and one has clearly out played the starting forwards in practice/games. Ive noticed over the last two weeks of practice the player having to become more verbal calling for the ball in wide open situations to the point where the coach is having to step in forcing the issue to get them the ball. Ill be interested to see if the team chemistry hits the fan when this player gets to start or if the coach keeps her coming off the bench. At some point every coach needs to go with the best, right?


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## Calisoccer11 (Apr 13, 2019)

ChargerPride said:


> My DD was scouted and offered a position from Mr. Baker, we decided that the travel and our commitment to his ways were not compatible. He did not like this. His behavior when you are on his side is good, once you don't agree, he becomes a very childish man. Luckily we found a great coach who mentored my DD and got her a great D1 offer. Winning is nice, but winning beautiful is better.


Kudos to you!!  Sometimes we get blinded by a coach who wins a lot of games.  I have seen Baker in action for many years and I still cringe when I hear some of the verbal abuse that comes out of his mouth.  I'm happy you found a good fit for your DD and a D1 offer to boot!!


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## ChargerPride (Apr 13, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> Unless a team is deep and/or a new player to the team is trying to crack the starting line up of an established team I agree here 100%
> 
> 
> 
> your spot on here. ive noticed this with my DD's team (younger) more so then my sons. My DD team just added two more players and one has clearly out played the starting forwards in practice/games. Ive noticed over the last two weeks of practice the player having to become more verbal calling for the ball in wide open situations to the point where the coach is having to step in forcing the issue to get them the ball. Ill be interested to see if the team chemistry hits the fan when this player gets to start or if the coach keeps her coming off the bench. At some point every coach needs to go with the best, right?


Definitely, a smart coach should play the best player at every position, hopefully the coaching will create the needed chemistry to make it a no brainer. Like a said a smart coach, finding the right coach is key.


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## Josep (Apr 13, 2019)

ChargerPride said:


> Definitely, a smart coach should play the best player at every position, hopefully the coaching will create the needed chemistry to make it a no brainer. Like a said a smart coach, finding the right coach is key.


You’d think.  Doesn’t always happen.


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## Real Deal (Apr 13, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> your spot on here. ive noticed this with my DD's team (younger) more so then my sons. My DD team just added two more players and one has clearly out played the starting forwards in practice/games. Ive noticed over the last two weeks of practice the player having to become more verbal calling for the ball in wide open situations to the point where the coach is having to step in forcing the issue to get them the ball. Ill be interested to see if the team chemistry hits the fan when this player gets to start or if the coach keeps her coming off the bench. At some point every coach needs to go with the best, right?


There are teams with dedicated players, but sadly, most of the players are dedicated to themselves, not to the team.  If you can anywhere out there find a team full of players dedicated to a common cause-- which would be team success-- please let me know.


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