# Prayers to the family



## Eagle33 (Aug 18, 2020)

Prayers to the family.....
https://www.latimes.com/sports/highschool/story/2020-08-17/palisades-high-standout-soccer-player-shane-thomas-dies


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## Soccermaverick (Aug 18, 2020)

111 degrees... WTF... likely heat related

*SOMEONE NEEDS TO GO TO JAIL

absolutely unacceptable... I was in airborne school in Georgia.. we stopped training  at 105..*

That club is awful...FC Golden State needs to be held accountable!


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## Footy30 (Aug 18, 2020)

I read this yesterday, it is heartbreaking. Prayers to the family...


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## timbuck (Aug 18, 2020)

Does that club usually train at that field?

111 degrees. On a Saturday. With no games to be played for the foreseeable future. 
No reason to have practice that day.


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## outside! (Aug 18, 2020)

Terribly sad.

This might be a good time to review the following and forward on to your players:




__





						Warning Signs and Symptoms of Heat-Related Illness | Natural Disasters and Severe Weather | CDC
					

Heat-related illnesses are preventable. Learn the symptoms and what to do if you or a loved one shows signs of having a heat-related illness.  Information provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).




					www.cdc.gov


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## Messi>CR7 (Aug 18, 2020)

outside! said:


> Terribly sad.
> 
> This might be a good time to review the following and forward on to your players:
> 
> ...


When we have extreme weather like this, I always remind my kids that they should feel free to speak up and ask the coach for a break.  The U-little kids might not know to voluntarily ask to be taken out of a game.  The older kids know better, but they might think taking yourself out of a game is the wrong thing to do until it's too late.


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## lafalafa (Aug 18, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Does that club usually train at that field?
> 
> 111 degrees. On a Saturday. With no games to be played for the foreseeable future.
> No reason to have practice that day.


No they just started there and normally at night, first daytime practice there I was told 2nd hand by friends of my son who knowns players that where training with them on Saturday.

Really sad and please contribute, the family has modest means:








						Shane Thomas, organized by Fund for Shane Thomas
					

Friends and family,  It’s is with extreme sadness that we announce the passing of Shane Thomas. A … Fund for Shane Thomas needs your support for Shane Thomas



					www.gofundme.com
				




Please don't jump to any conclusions or try to place blame,  that newspaper piece has some things mixed up, errors, or info omitted according to what we heard Saturday.  Not going into that so don't ask just respect and mourn for the young man and his family.


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## timbuck (Aug 18, 2020)

I was asking if they usually train there because I was wondering if they secured that field to get around some of the regulations of fields in LA.  (Like some OC clubs have done by going to Oceanside)


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## gunner (Aug 18, 2020)

I'm just heartbroken for the family, I don't understand what in the world was the coach/club thinking? According to this, no one should be raining for the next 10 days.


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## Ellejustus (Aug 18, 2020)

RIP!!!


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## Palmcina (Aug 18, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> No they just started there and normally at night, first daytime practice there I was told 2nd hand by friends of my son who knowns players that where training with them on Saturday.
> 
> Really sad and please contribute, the family has modest means:
> 
> ...


he played on laufa reserve team in past I heard.  did you know him. pretty sure you are familiar with his age group. just based on your past posts. maybe your son knew him.  very unfortunate and preventable tragedy.


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## jpmorris123 (Aug 18, 2020)

Coaches, clubs and parents need to be reminded that it's the Heat Index (temp.+humidity+exposure) that matters.  Folks need to remember these two "rules of thumb":  (1) if humidity is between 35% and 50%, add 10-15 degrees, and (2) if exposed to direct sunlight add another 10-15 degrees.  Finally, humidity on natural turf in the morning is always significantly higher than the ambient humidity, and synthetic turf radiates heat that compounds field level temperature as the day progresses.


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## Goalie1310 (Aug 18, 2020)

R. I.P Young man


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## Soccermaverick (Aug 18, 2020)

The adults failed this kid... plain and simple... i cant believe a competent coach couldn’t see the signs... no risk mitigation was done... no safety brief was given..

Absolutely negligent!


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## Glitterhater (Aug 18, 2020)

This is heart breaking! I cannot imagine how his family is feeling! RIP young man.


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## Traore (Aug 18, 2020)

The sister's tribute to her brother is heart wrenching.  

Every summer, my kids play in tournaments and practices in very hot weather. I could always see how exhausted the players were, but I could never imagine something like this happening.


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## thelonggame (Aug 18, 2020)

Soccermaverick said:


> 111 degrees... WTF... likely heat related
> 
> *SOMEONE NEEDS TO GO TO JAIL
> 
> ...


Prayers yes, action taken, hopefully. Parents do whatever they are told because they don't want their kid to get in trouble with the team. Any coach that thinks a training session is important when there's a heat advisory should have his coaching badge removed and the club sanctioned for not giving a shit.


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## Soccer43 (Aug 18, 2020)

We may not know details but the facts are it was noon at 111 degrees and they were engaged in physical exercise as part of a soccer practice.  That should not have happened, that's the bottom line.  I have felt sick about this all day.


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## Eagle33 (Aug 18, 2020)

I can see how a coach would stop thinking straight when finally given a green light to practice.


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## Soccer43 (Aug 18, 2020)

If he is not able to make basic safety decisions because of his personal ambition to coach then he has no business being a coach.


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## Eagle33 (Aug 18, 2020)

Soccer43 said:


> If he is not able to make basic safety decisions because of his personal ambition to coach then he has no business being a coach.


you are talking about 70% of the coaches


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## 3leches (Aug 18, 2020)

How many of us had our kids playing in hot conditions at a tournament; Vegas Cup, Dallas Cup, etc. ? or even playing sick when they should've been resting. It is easy to point the finger but as parents, we make the decisions for our kids. We all have been guilty.


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## Traore (Aug 18, 2020)

Every year we do that.  100+ degrees on turf is not uncommon. The tournaments are not going to postpone the championship finals and the teams were not going to forfeit.  Maybe everyone should rethink things.


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## Technician72 (Aug 18, 2020)

DD's club cancelled practice with the temps expected to remain between 105-110 at 5pm today. I will be expecting the same for tomorrow.

Hopefully this remains on peoples radar instead of a blip fading away.


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## happy9 (Aug 18, 2020)

Soccer43 said:


> If he is not able to make basic safety decisions because of his personal ambition to coach then he has no business being a coach.





Traore said:


> Every year we do that.  100+ degrees on turf is not uncommon. The tournaments are not going to postpone the championship finals and the teams were not going to forfeit.  Maybe everyone should rethink things.


No doubt this is an unspeakable tragedy and a parent's worst nightmare, nothing will ever underscore that.  I don't know if accusing coaches, clubs, etc is the right thing to do.  I guess unless you were there, you don't really have any context as to what happened, what heat stress precautions were taken, what the child did prior to coming to practice etc.  It's a tragedy all the way around - that coach and team will be hard pressed to recover from this tragedy. The family is forever changed. 

If you personally know what happened and observed negligence, then you should step forward, certainly not on here. If there was negligence, I have no doubt that things will be resolved.

Unfortunately young athletes do die suddenly, look it up for yourself.  There are teams (all sports) all over the country practicing in high temps.  Historically in places like AZ and TX, they do it year in and year out.  I'm sure I missed a state or two.  In AZ, it's not uncommon to practice and play in temps excess of 105.  Common sense and experience in heat stress  mitigation are applied.  What club wants a child under their care to pass by way of accident?  I would say none.


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## Ellejustus (Aug 18, 2020)

3leches said:


> How many of us, had your kid playing in sweltering heat at a tournament, while you sat under an umbrellas to see your U whatever play? Dallas Cup, Vegas cup, etc. It's easy to point fingers but I would bet every parent on this board kid has played in hot conditions, sick, etc. We have all been lucky


I 100% want the family to know RIP to DS.  I mean that and this could easily be my dd.  
I was just thinking about one tournament back in the day in July one summer, like 5 years ago.  Blues vs Legends and it was a game for the ages and everyone was going ape shit on the forum that week because their was talk about postponing the tournament.  Well, my dd Blues team lost in the Semi's to Legends in 104 heat.  In fact, a lot of us talked about how crazy it was to play.  50/50 and we all still had our dd play.  I was telling everyone how glad we were to lose in Semi's to Legends because their reward was playing at 4pm the same freaking day for the championship trophy.  I have no idea who won but I got blasted on here for being a sore loser.  I wasn;t a sore loser, I saw my dd asleep and she didnt wake up until the next day and I told everyone that was bad.  We actually escaped the worse nightmare for any parent who has kids playing sports.  105 in Cali and 105 in AZ and Texas can be different.  My dd has played in both extreme conditions before.  Texas had high heat plus thunderstorms and lighting all in one day. One minute no clouds and one hour later everyone is running away from potential lightning strikes.  It was like nothing to the Liverpool and Solar parents I met over the weekend at the Big Copa Tournament.  Playing early or at night is ok with me now days.  IE, way too hot and I agree with Tech.  85 tonight at Great Park.  Stay safe everyone and drink lot's of water.


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## Soccermaverick (Aug 18, 2020)

happy9 said:


> No doubt this is an unspeakable tragedy and a parent's worst nightmare, nothing will ever underscore that.  I don't know if accusing coaches, clubs, etc is the right thing to do.  I guess unless you were there, you don't really have any context as to what happened, what heat stress precautions were taken, what the child did prior to coming to practice etc.  It's a tragedy all the way around - that coach and team will be hard pressed to recover from this tragedy. The family is forever changed.
> 
> If you personally know what happened and observed negligence, then you should step forward, certainly not on here. If there was negligence, I have no doubt that things will be resolved.
> 
> Unfortunately young athletes do die suddenly, look it up for yourself.  There are teams (all sports) all over the country practicing in high temps.  Historically in places like AZ and TX, they do it year in and year out.  I'm sure I missed a state or two.  In AZ, it's not uncommon to practice and play in temps excess of 105.  Common sense and experience in heat stress  mitigation are applied.  What club wants a child under their care to pass by way of accident?  I would say none.


First, risk mitigation needs to be done to ensure  safety protocols are followed. If risk mitigation was done before the event they would have seen that 110+ degrees prevents them from training. It was not done.
Second, A safety brief before the practice would have stopped the practice from occurring because it would have shown that at 110+ temperatures the kids would not have been prepared ( no amount of hydration can compensate for 110+ degrees in a child). It was note done.
Finally, the San Bernardino Sheriff’s offfice said “it was likely heat related. “. If that is written in the report, the district attorney will need to investigate. If they investigate and find it was heat related.  Then

SOMEONE NEEDS TO GO TO JAIL...

the kids deserve better from adults. He deserved better. Such a nice young man .


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## Soccer43 (Aug 18, 2020)

If a coach is going to be responsible for telling your child and you as parents what will be happening in a training session then they MUST be sure they are trained and have educated themselves regarding all safety precautions.  There are no circumstances that would validate a reason for training at noon in 111 degree weather.    I am sure the coach and the club are distraught over this situation but the practice should not have been happening.


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## suzysoccer1 (Aug 18, 2020)

At a minimum for a college soccer training session: 
Athletic Trainer is present with the following:
Cell phone 
Emergency plan
Field map/ ingress and egress for quick ambulance accessibility 
Injury Ice
Ice water/Electrolytes 
water bottles to monitor fluid intake
Shaded tent
Injury table 
Complete Med Kit/trainers bag
Cold tubs (or quick access for heat related issues) 
AED
BP cuff
PRE Practice/pre Season physical exam for each player 
weight of each player, fluid intake monitoring, etc

In addition 
ALL coaches must have CURRENT CPR/FIRST AID AED Certification 
Heat index is to be monitored before AND during training session. Not by the coach! Then altered.

depending on the school you might have more. But this is the basic setup. On top of this the athletic trainer is monitoring the session and observing Players for signs of injury or stress. Then stepping in and preventing many issues from becoming serious. GOOD coaches and departments want this because it frees them of the responsibility of medical issues. Good trainers fight for their athletes and advocate for them. Good coaches seek to have quality training sessions under the most optimum conditions In order to protect their players not endanger them.

Did this coach and club have any of this? No they didn’t.

What happened here is at best gross negligence resulting in the PREVENTABLE death of a child, and at worst criminal. Yes it’s not college and only club but that should not excuse this. If you want to train in a pandemic under extreme heat then THE COACH AND CLUB need to have protocols in place.


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## 3leches (Aug 18, 2020)

All parties involved failed miserably from the decision have practice that morning from deciding to go.
We as parents need to stop and start thinking for ourselves again when it comes to the safety of our kids. Many of us have thrown caution to the wind because we don’t want our dd/da to lose their spot just because the coach may be mad about xyz.
think about things you have approved that you knew deep down wasn’t right.

**in no way shape or form am I blaming the parents but too many of us are silent when we get that email about a game on turf in high heat and we all show up, ready to warm
up.


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## happy9 (Aug 18, 2020)

suzysoccer1 said:


> At a minimum for a college soccer training session:
> Athletic Trainer is present with the following:
> Cell phone
> Emergency plan
> ...


I agree with all of this and what you describe is certainly a standard that should be adhered to.  I'm assuming that you can 100% verify the words I've highlighted?

Arizona will be having state sanctioned games this weekend where some games will be played in the heat of the day.  Many games will be played early in the morning and after the sun goes down, but enough will be played between 11 am and 4 pm, hottest part of the AZ day.  This is not uncommon in AZ.  I wonder how this unfortunate tragedy will impact play, oversight, etc over the weekend.


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## suzysoccer1 (Aug 18, 2020)

happy9 said:


> I agree with all of this and what you describe is certainly a standard that should be adhered to.  I'm assuming that you can 100% verify the words I've highlighted?
> 
> Arizona will be having state sanctioned games this weekend where some games will be played in the heat of the day.  Many games will be played early in the morning and after the sun goes down, but enough will be played between 11 am and 4 pm, hottest part of the AZ day.  This is not uncommon in AZ.  I wonder how this unfortunate tragedy will impact play, oversight, etc over the weekend.


Very familiar with AZ. Worked their for a few years in the 90’s. 
The Then altered is misprint. No idea how I wrote that. Good catch. The point there was that coaches should not have any ultimate decision making power with should we play or return to play guidelines. Input yes, final say NO.
The did they have any of this? No. 
Can I verify that? No I can’t. But I’m not writing a police report or news article. I’m speaking IMO as an athletic trainer for 30 years. That coaches don’t bring these items.
I don’t see this tragedy changing one damn thing about games being played in excessive heat going forward.


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## Soccermaverick (Aug 18, 2020)

DJ Durkin was at workout where Jordan McNair was carted off, according to summary released by Maryland
					

The latest report of the review of the May 29 workout where Jordan McNair had difficulty recovering includes information that third-year Terps coach DJ Durkin was present.




					www.baltimoresun.com
				




*May 29, 2018: *Offensive lineman Jordan McNair is hospitalized after showing signs of heatstroke and exhaustion while participating in a team workout. McNair has difficulty finishing a set of 110-yard sprints and is found to have a body temperature of 106 degrees at a local hospital. Sources later tell ESPN.com that McNair did not finish the runs on his own strength and was eventually walked around the practice field before being taken for treatment.

After evaluating McNair at the football facilities, EMT responders call in a "male patient with a seizure," and McNair is transported to Washington Adventist Hospital.

*June 13, 2018: *McNair dies in the hospital at age 19. The cause of death has since been determined to be heatstroke.


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## lafalafa (Aug 18, 2020)

suzysoccer1 said:


> At a minimum for a college soccer training session:
> Athletic Trainer is present with the following:
> Cell phone
> Emergency plan
> ...


I appreciate you sharing this.

I would venture to guess a good majority of socal clubs and high schools don't have or use any where near the 20 things or so listed especially for normal routine training.

The youth sports sanctioning bodies are not even that through and tournaments disregard some of it.    The former ussda and Ussf do many of those but trainers where not always present even though "required"  at all youth games. 

Good to educate but  throwing blame around can wait out of respect for all the parties involved, should there be some changes yes but it has to be by all parties (facilities, sanctioning bodies, parents, tournaments, clubs, coaches,admin, etc) not just singling out one or the other . 

Would like to see more study and facts presented in this particular case before jumping to conclusions and what measures that everyone can take so the risks are minimized for everyone going forward.  You have provided some of so that's helpful and appreciated 

As a parent hopefully I have taught and educated my kids enough on the risks involved in the activities they choose to participate in.  If they are not old enough to make those decisions yet the buck stops at us.


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## suzysoccer1 (Aug 18, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> I appreciate you sharing this.
> 
> I would venture to guess a good majority of socal clubs and high schools don't have or use any where near the 20 things or so listed especially for normal routine training.
> 
> ...


If I can push back somewhat to what you say as to the assessment of blame. This is an issue I’m deeply invested in. I’ve watched many athletes come close to death, 2 pass away, either to trauma, spine and cervical, stroke, overdose, heat illness and more. It’s devastating to not be able to help more, but what’s worse is the family after. It’s terrible and soul crushing and something that as my kids play sports I even struggle with. The should we or shouldn’t we, what’s safe enough, etc. 
The problem lies with the justification of risk. Even the best athletes steeped in knowledge cant be trusted to make decisions. They will always choose to play. We know this, that’s why you have protocols in place to prevent them from hurting themselves. Sanctioning bodies know better, clubs know better and coaches know better. This excuse that athletic medicine is a mystery is fiction. The excuse of no one has consistent medical services at the youth level is way past its expiration date. We need to change the narrative. If clubs can hire coaches, buy equipment, get fields, run social media accounts, recruit players, and cash checks then they can certainly handle basic life saving measures and basic athletic medicine.  So yeah the blame is square in the club and coach. They scheduled it. They now assume ALL RISK, through their lack of responsibility. At every YNT camp there are Athletic trainers with physicians on call. I used to be one there. Why? Because those players are worth the financial investment for those services. At every other level your kids lives are worth the risks of a lawsuit. Clubs will not pay upfront costs for services that save lives in the hopes that it will all work out. Clubs will not pay the coaches legal fee, most coaches have no personal liability insurance. Coaches need to think about this hard next time. Is it worth your house? Your savings? Your career? To have a scrimmage that kills a kid. If is it worth it to hold a practice during a pandemic? The answer is NO.  At the end of the day I’m pissed. This is bullshit, lives are ruined over a game. It’s not worth it. It is preventable. Like you stated maybe other facts come to light, even if they do it does not change the fact that this shouldn’t happen. And it’s sure as shit shouldn’t happen on a soccer field to a 17 year old.


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## lafalafa (Aug 18, 2020)

suzysoccer1 said:


> If I can push back somewhat to what you say as to the assessment of blame. This is an issue I’m deeply invested in. I’ve watched many athletes come close to death, 2 pass away, either to trauma, spine and cervical, stroke, overdose, heat illness and more. It’s devastating to not be able to help more, but what’s worse is the family after. It’s terrible and soul crushing and something that as my kids play sports I even struggle with. The should we or shouldn’t we, what’s safe enough, etc.
> The problem lies with the justification of risk. Even the best athletes steeped in knowledge cant be trusted to make decisions. They will always choose to play. We know this, that’s why you have protocols in place to prevent them from hurting themselves. Sanctioning bodies know better, clubs know better and coaches know better. This excuse that athletic medicine is a mystery is fiction. The excuse of no one has consistent medical services at the youth level is way past its expiration date. We need to change the narrative. If clubs can hire coaches, buy equipment, get fields, run social media accounts, recruit players, and cash checks then they can certainly handle basic life saving measures and basic athletic medicine.  So yeah the blame is square in the club and coach. They scheduled it. They now assume ALL RISK, through their lack of responsibility. At every YNT camp there are Athletic trainers with physicians on call. I used to be one there. Why? Because those players are worth the financial investment for those services. At every other level your kids lives are worth the risks of a lawsuit. Clubs will not pay upfront costs for services that save lives in the hopes that it will all work out. Clubs will not pay the coaches legal fee, most coaches have no personal liability insurance. Coaches need to think about this hard next time. Is it worth your house? Your savings? Your career? To have a scrimmage that kills a kid. If is it worth it to hold a practice during a pandemic? The answer is NO.  At the end of the day I’m pissed. This is bullshit, lives are ruined over a game. It’s not worth it. It is preventable. Like you stated maybe other facts come to light, even if they do it does not change the fact that this shouldn’t happen. And it’s sure as shit shouldn’t happen on a soccer field to a 17 year old.


Yeah I get your point of view and you have some great insight and experience to share that most of us don't have so thanks for sharing that.  

At the same time the city or facilities management permitted those activities for that club and others that same day.  The sanctioning bodies or  the leagues there memembers of dont have all the protocols you mentioned, all the coaches don't have those certifications or training, there are not athletic trainers at normal Club trainings, etc so it's not just 1-2 areas that need improvement, I'm looking at the whole not just a couple of parts to focus on before making any assessment or judgements.

For example when the air quality is not up to standard or unhealthy the facilities my son uses for school training get closed.  He doesn't know the air is not healthy so can't assume the risk.  He does know when it's 100+ out that running hard may not be best choice and will wait until it cools now later, will find somewhere cooler indoor on a treadmill, or just will postpone until the conditions improve. 

I'm sure just about everyone wish's they could have done more and helped in some way.  Hopefully,  everyone can learn something and strive for a better understanding to minimize risks, everyone not just a singular club or particular coach.  I have no affiliation with any of the parties involved and want to try to educate myself more on the subject while at the same time showing respect to those that are mourning.


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## whatithink (Aug 18, 2020)

happy9 said:


> I agree with all of this and what you describe is certainly a standard that should be adhered to.  I'm assuming that you can 100% verify the words I've highlighted?
> 
> Arizona will be having state sanctioned games this weekend where some games will be played in the heat of the day.  Many games will be played early in the morning and after the sun goes down, but enough will be played between 11 am and 4 pm, hottest part of the AZ day.  This is not uncommon in AZ.  I wonder how this unfortunate tragedy will impact play, oversight, etc over the weekend.


Its not actually that common in AZ to play from 12 to 6 in August. Most years clubs close down for June & July. There's no league or tournament play. Teams come back early if they are doing Surf, but its pretty mellow - pre-season stuff and maybe a scrimmage if they are lucky.

The state league play-in games are scheduled this coming weekend, and they have games scheduled at 12 and then the next ones are at 6. The Desert Cup over Labor weekend every year breaks from 12 to 6.

ASA have scheduled games this weekend in their scrimmage fest in the afternoon. That is very unusual. I see they are also promoting something from Banner health on their site and managing the heat. IMV, they are being idiots. There is literally zero need to do it at that time.

Clubs call off practices due to excessive heat. When the kids do practice, they take breaks constantly. I've seen kids this summer - multiple teenagers on the same team getting erratic (unsteady on their feed, head hurting, not being able to kick it into a pug from 10 feet). There's a scramble for space at the moment because public parks are closed and the primary venues in N Phoenix/Scottsdale won't allow full contact (still). So where clubs can get in, they are starting practice way too early for this heat, i.e. from 4/4:30, to fit as many teams in as possible.


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## Soccermaverick (Aug 19, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Good to educate but  throwing blame around can wait out of respect for all the parties involved, should there be some changes yes but it has to be by all parties (facilities, sanctioning bodies, parents, tournaments, clubs, coaches,admin, etc) not just singling out one or the other .



Wrong... The club and coach are responsible. They have the authority and the responsibility... you can delegate responsibility but not authority.

Pandering to the whole group is responsible and there is blame to go around is cowardly and will cause this to happen again.

Adults have a legal responsibility to protect children. The club and coach held this event. The club had the authority to hold the event. They got the field space for the coach. The coach had the responsibility to ensure the kids were safe.

We are not talking about someone breaking a leg. We are talking about temperatures no child should be playing in.  The club and coach were neglecting their responsibility by holding a practice in 110+ heat.

Two pieces of paper could have prevented this.  A simple risk matrix and a safety brief.


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## Sheriff Joe (Aug 19, 2020)

Horrible, but how many of us have seen players go down with heat exhaustion and what were you and your kid doing there? How many times has your kid burned their feet on the turf? There was a thread a while back on how to stop kids getting their feet too hot.
We all have done it I would imagine.
Terrible situation that the parents will have to live with.


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## socalkdg (Aug 19, 2020)

What are the realistic limits for practicing in the heat?  

My daughter did keeper training Monday at 5:30 PM with the temperature of 100 at start, 94 at end.  She drank about 32 OZ of water over a 2 hour period, starting about 60 minutes before.  She was with 2 other keepers and there were breaks.  I walked the park during this time and it felt fine to be outside.

Our team cancelled practice last night.   It was going to be 103 at 6 PM when starting, 96 at end.   It would have been a light practice, getting some touches, no running.

Thoughts?


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## Ellejustus (Aug 19, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> What are the realistic limits for practicing in the heat?
> 
> My daughter did keeper training Monday at 5:30 PM with the temperature of 100 at start, 94 at end.  She drank about 32 OZ of water over a 2 hour period, starting about 60 minutes before.  She was with 2 other keepers and there were breaks.  I walked the part during this time and it felt fine to be outside.
> 
> ...


Too hot


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## Eagle33 (Aug 19, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> What are the realistic limits for practicing in the heat?
> 
> My daughter did keeper training Monday at 5:30 PM with the temperature of 100 at start, 94 at end.  She drank about 32 OZ of water over a 2 hour period, starting about 60 minutes before.  She was with 2 other keepers and there were breaks.  I walked the park during this time and it felt fine to be outside.
> 
> ...


I don't see any issue practicing in the heat when done properly. No strenuous exercises, water breaks, hopefully shade availability. It has to be on the grass though, not artificial turf.


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## Ellejustus (Aug 19, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I don't see any issue practicing in the heat when done properly. No strenuous exercises, water breaks, hopefully shade availability. It has to be on the grass though, not artificial turf.


Eagle, 103 at 6pm is a no show for my dd today.  My dd would call in sick.  I will admit when my goat was 11, i would have had her there because............I feel horrible for admitting the errors of my way but one needs to look in the mirror and get real to get real change.


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## Eagle33 (Aug 19, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Eagle, 103 at 6pm is a no show for my dd today.  My dd would call in sick.  I will admit when my goat was 11, i would have had her there because............I feel horrible for admitting the errors of my way but one needs to look in the mirror and get real to get real change.


its completely your choice as a parent. Hot weather comes with a perk leaving in South Cali. Like I said, no problem if done correctly.


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## espola (Aug 19, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I don't see any issue practicing in the heat when done properly. No strenuous exercises, water breaks, hopefully shade availability. It has to be on the grass though, not artificial turf.


I hear Fantasy Land is open again.


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## whatithink (Aug 19, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> What are the realistic limits for practicing in the heat?
> 
> My daughter did keeper training Monday at 5:30 PM with the temperature of 100 at start, 94 at end.  She drank about 32 OZ of water over a 2 hour period, starting about 60 minutes before.  She was with 2 other keepers and there were breaks.  I walked the park during this time and it felt fine to be outside.
> 
> ...


Depends on the humidity, i.e. its all about the heat index - temp + humidity.



			https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/general/safety/heat/heatindex.png


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## whatithink (Aug 19, 2020)

whatithink said:


> Depends on the humidity, i.e. its all about the heat index - temp + humidity.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/general/safety/heat/heatindex.png


For example, to a point I made earlier about the AZ soccer assoc scheduling games for this coming Saturday afternoon. The forecast is for a high of 105, the forecast humidity for Maricopa where the games are being played is 34%, so according to the above chart, the heat index forecast is 116 ... that's very sensible of the AZ soccer assoc, who could possibly have predicted that, in AZ, in summer, in monsoon season


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## Copa9 (Aug 19, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> I appreciate you sharing this.
> 
> I would venture to guess a good majority of socal clubs and high schools don't have or use any where near the 20 things or so listed especially for normal routine training.
> 
> ...


There were always trainers at our  DA games.


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## happy9 (Aug 19, 2020)

whatithink said:


> Its not actually that common in AZ to play from 12 to 6 in August. Most years clubs close down for June & July. There's no league or tournament play. Teams come back early if they are doing Surf, but its pretty mellow - pre-season stuff and maybe a scrimmage if they are lucky.
> 
> The state league play-in games are scheduled this coming weekend, and they have games scheduled at 12 and then the next ones are at 6. The Desert Cup over Labor weekend every year breaks from 12 to 6.
> 
> ...


Certainly unusual times for AZ and yes, we normally shut down for JUN/JUL, and come back in early august, depending on club and league you play in.  Still hot in August and Sep, sometimes hotter than JUN/JUL.  Fields are  an issue but looks like things are being worked out.  The younger age groups get shafted by having to start at 4-430.  Other sports follow a similar path, some starting earlier, all outside.    

There are play in games and and organized scrimmages scheduled for this weekend.  On Saturday there are 19 games scheduled between 11 am and 4 pm.  There are 12 games scheduled for Sunday between 11 and 4.  The high SAT will be 105, the high SUN will be 105.  Applying the US Soccer guidelines and depending on humidity that day, they will be right on the edge of having to cancel.  Will they cancel?  Highly unlikely.

For what it's worth, full contact has been happening for quite some time, even earlier on - depending on club interpretations of the return to play guidelines.  With that said, Club staffs seem to be taking care of athletes and doing the right thing.  My guess would be that years of training in the heat make them more aware.  Due to unfortunate recent events, now they are hyper aware. That is evident on the recent reminder of heat stress guidance and mitigation that just went out.

Hopefully this weekend goes off without a hitch, given the backdrop it's up against.


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## whatithink (Aug 19, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Certainly unusual times for AZ and yes, we normally shut down for JUN/JUL, and come back in early august, depending on club and league you play in.  Still hot in August and Sep, sometimes hotter than JUN/JUL.  Fields are  an issue but looks like things are being worked out.  The younger age groups get shafted by having to start at 4-430.  Other sports follow a similar path, some starting earlier, all outside.
> 
> There are play in games and and organized scrimmages scheduled for this weekend.  On Saturday there are 19 games scheduled between 11 am and 4 pm.  There are 12 games scheduled for Sunday between 11 and 4.  The high SAT will be 105, the high SUN will be 105.  Applying the US Soccer guidelines and depending on humidity that day, they will be right on the edge of having to cancel.  Will they cancel?  Highly unlikely.
> 
> ...


The heat index for both days is in the danger zone, 119 & 113 (highs), based on the forecast. Clubs have been doing full contact outside of ASA guidelines for some teams, but I'm fine with that TBH. I can't see anything getting cancelled either and the AZ kids are pretty used to it. They'll probably take water breaks every 20 mins too and hopefully the coaches constantly rotate.


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## dad4 (Aug 19, 2020)

whatithink said:


> Depends on the humidity, i.e. its all about the heat index - temp + humidity.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/general/safety/heat/heatindex.png


What heat index number do you use for 4x4 water breaks, and what index do you use for cancelling a practice/game?


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## whatithink (Aug 19, 2020)

dad4 said:


> What heat index number do you use for 4x4 water breaks, and what index do you use for cancelling a practice/game?


Kids should be constantly hydrating this time of year in particular, as they are practicing 2-4 times a week and scrimmages & games are starting. For practice & games, they should have water AND an electrolyte drink (to sip at breaks and finish after practice/game). They can cope if properly prepared and if the club/coaches give regular breaks in practice and every 20 mins in scrimmages/games.

I've seen plenty of practices get cancelled over the years when it moves into the extreme danger area. I don't recall ever having a game cancelled, but then they only really start towards the end of Aug and I've never seen them scheduled for the afternoon at this time of year.

All AZ related obv.


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## happy9 (Aug 19, 2020)

dad4 said:


> What heat index number do you use for 4x4 water breaks, and what index do you use for cancelling a practice/game?





			http://www.nysphsaa.org/Portals/0/2015%20US%20Soccer%20Heat%20Guidelines.pdf
		


Here are the guidelines from US Soccer.  Pages 3-5 lay out criteria and action.  Decision making criteria value is driven by where you live (Category 1-3) and other factors - temps, humidity, etc.  AZ is mainly considered category 3 (most of the soccer is played in category 3 areas, whereas CA is in all 3 categories,lending itself to different decisions based on where you live.


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## Soccer43 (Aug 19, 2020)

ok, you all just go ahead and have your player at practice and games at 111 at high noon.  I will not be there with mine.  Get educated about the science behind this.  life threatening, look at the heat index - extreme danger no matter what the humidity is


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## socalkdg (Aug 19, 2020)

Soccer43 said:


> ok, you all just go ahead and have your player at practice and games at 111 at high noon.  I will not be there with mine.  Get educated about the science behind this.  life threatening, look at the heat index - extreme danger no matter what the humidity is


I think most of us are in agreement that 111 at noon time is too hot(hopefully all of us). That was probably a heat index of 125-130.   I had asked the question about 100 at 5:30.   This evening it will be at 96 at the start of training, 90 when she is done.  On grass.   Warm, but she wants to train.


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## Keepermom2 (Aug 19, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> I think most of us are in agreement that 111 at noon time is too hot(hopefully all of us). That was probably a heat index of 125-130.   I had asked the question about 100 at 5:30.   This evening it will be at 96 at the start of training, 90 when she is done.  On grass.   Warm, but she wants to train.


This link looks useful for determining what is safe.   





__





						Heat Forecast Tools
					





					www.weather.gov


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## happy9 (Aug 19, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> This link looks useful for determining what is safe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Even determining heat index can be polarizing!  ha...here is another chart that includes humidity below 40%.  Places like Vegas, Phoenix and the deserts of CA need the 40 and below to accurately calculate their heat index.  The dew point can also be another factor and can be swapped for humidity to determine heat index.  All I know is that right now in the desert southwest, it's hot.  Dew point, humidity, whatever - it's hot.





__





						Heat Index
					





					www.weather.gov
				






			https://www.iweathernet.com/wxnetcms/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/heat-index-using-dew-point.png


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## jpmorris123 (Aug 25, 2020)

whatithink said:


> Depends on the humidity, i.e. its all about the heat index - temp + humidity.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/general/safety/heat/heatindex.png


In addition to humidity, also need to add direct exposure to sun to calculate the full heat index.  Temperature is always ambient (shade).  Direct exposure to sun adds anywhere from 10 to 15 degrees to underlying temperature depending on the time of day/season).


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## Soccermaverick (Aug 25, 2020)

Big issue here....people are forgetting these are children not adults... Is there an  investigation being conducted?
An article about kids and temperatures :


Children are more sensitive to heat and cold stress than adults. Heat tolerance is directly affected by body size. Children are smaller and weigh less, but because they have a larger relative surface area than adults, their ability to tolerate either heat or cold stress is affected. During exercise, most of the energy released from the body appears as heat. The more we exercise, the more heat we build. And the more heat we build, the more we have to get rid of it. The evaporation of sweat is the most effective way to get rid of body heat. Pound for pound, children build up more heat than adults. For example, if an adult and a child are walking, the child is accumulating more heat. To make things even harder, children do not sweat as much as adults. Paradoxically, in cold conditions, children lose heat faster than adults and are more vulnerable to over-cooling. Children are more susceptible to cold stress because of their relatively large surface-to-mass ratio. Children also lose heat rapidly in cool water. The smaller the child, the faster the heat loss. Children also take longer to acclimatize to changes in hot and cold weather. An adult body will acclimatize to a heat wave in about a week to 10 days; a child’s body will take about 10 to 14 days. Adults should be aware that while they maybe coping well with heat or cold, the child may not yet be acclimatized or may not have the same tolerance.

There must be accountability or every kid is in danger!


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## dad4 (Aug 25, 2020)

Soccermaverick said:


> Big issue here....people are forgetting these are children not adults... Is there an  investigation being conducted?
> An article about kids and temperatures :
> 
> 
> ...


link?


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## Soccermaverick (Aug 25, 2020)

Linked

http://rcga.org/_uploads/documents/L2P/EN/pg_092-094_Are children more prone to heat and cold stress than adults_.pdf


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## Soccermaverick (Sep 4, 2020)

Reminder ......it will be hot this weekend... if you are in charge of kids... make sure they are safe.
Drink Water... Shade.


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## Soccermaverick (Sep 6, 2020)

121 woodland hills


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## Glitterhater (Sep 6, 2020)

Soccermaverick said:


> 121 woodland hills


121 degrees?? It's criminal if children are playing soccer in that.


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## Soccermaverick (Jun 15, 2021)

A reminder… Do your job coaches….!!!!

protect the kids… it’s starting to get hot!

drink water… bring/ find shade


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jun 15, 2021)

Unfortunately we have seen teenagers die even at 90 degree weather.  Anything over 95 is too hot.  Hydration starts in the morning for an afternoon practice.    
Very unfortunate situation.


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