# ECNL Championship Draw



## Soccer43

Any comments or thoughts about the playoffs coming up?  Predictions on the final four in each age group?  

http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/ecnl-national-playoffs//


----------



## meatsweats

Soccer43 said:


> Any comments or thoughts about the playoffs coming up?  Predictions on the final four in each age group?
> 
> http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/ecnl-national-playoffs//



https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/breaking-down-the-ecnl-playoffs-brackets_aid41955


----------



## Lambchop

Soccer43 said:


> Any comments or thoughts about the playoffs coming up?  Predictions on the final four in each age group?
> 
> http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/ecnl-national-playoffs//


Interesting draw.  Single elimination???  North American Cup, #1 seed vs. #16 seed. ???  Wow.


----------



## Cleansheets

u14 Group C, bracket of death!


----------



## NoGoal

Lambchop said:


> Interesting draw.  Single elimination???  North American Cup, #1 seed vs. #16 seed. ???  Wow.


Yes it's single elimination, but the losers of the matches go into a loser bracket...this way the girls are still seen by college coaches for an additional 2 games.


----------



## Lambchop

NoGoal said:


> Yes it's single elimination, but the losers of the matches go into a loser bracket...this way the girls are still seen by college coaches for an additional 2 games.


That's a lot of money to spend for that.  Doubt there will be very many of any coaches  watching  the losers bracket with all the other games going on.


----------



## shales1002

Lambchop said:


> That's a lot of money to spend for that.  Doubt there will be very many of any coaches  watching  the losers bracket with all the other games going on.


It's beeen said time and time again.  Colleges recruit players not teams.


----------



## GoWest

Lambchop said:


> Interesting draw.  Single elimination???  North American Cup, #1 seed vs. #16 seed. ???  Wow.


NA Cup and Showcase are not "playoffs" but showcases for second and third level teams that may also have some great individual talent.



Lambchop said:


> That's a lot of money to spend for that.  Doubt there will be very many of any coaches  watching  the losers bracket with all the other games going on.


Though the teams may have not have consistently performed well there is some remarkable talent that will draw coaches to the sidelines from EVERY division in D1, D2, D3, NAIA and juco.


----------



## The Driver

Lambchop said:


> That's a lot of money to spend for that.  Doubt there will be very many of any coaches  watching  the losers bracket with all the other games going on.


I don't believe  a coach in any sport who has developed trust and relationship with a player/family would skip watching a player on his/her watch list.


----------



## NoGoal

Lambchop said:


> That's a lot of money to spend for that.  Doubt there will be very many of any coaches  watching  the losers bracket with all the other games going on.


WRONG!  Average college coaches at the loser bracket is 30-40 college coaches.   You should stop hating, because college coaches love SoCal players and not all of SoCal players team's qualified for the Champions bracket.


----------



## NoGoal

Lambchop said:


> That's a lot of money to spend for that.  Doubt there will be very many of any coaches  watching  the losers bracket with all the other games going on.


If I recall you were the poster, hyping up the Silverlakes Thanksgiving College Showcase, because your DD's team saw 8 college coaches on the sidelines.


----------



## PLSAP

NoGoal said:


> WRONG!  Average college coaches at the loser bracket is 30-40 college coaches.   You should stop hating, because college coaches love SoCal players and not all of SoCal players team's qualified for the Champions bracket.


EXACTLY.

A certain RB ECNL team didn't qualify for the Champions bracket. That same team has several well-known and high caliber YNT players in addition to many other talented players. You think that college coaches are going to not watch them play as well as their teammates who get the opportunity to train with them all the time simply because they didn't qualify for the Champions bracket?


----------



## PLSAP

PLSAP said:


> EXACTLY.
> 
> A certain RB ECNL team didn't qualify for the Champions bracket. That same team has several well-known and high caliber YNT players in addition to many other talented players. You think that college coaches are going to not watch them play as well as their teammates who get the opportunity to train with them all the time simply because they didn't qualify for the Champions bracket?


And that is just one example


----------



## NoGoal

PLSAP said:


> EXACTLY.
> 
> A certain RB ECNL team didn't qualify for the Champions bracket. That same team has several well-known and high caliber YNT players in addition to many other talented players. You think that college coaches are going to not watch them play as well as their teammates who get the opportunity to train with them all the time simply because they didn't qualify for the Champions bracket?


My DD's ECNL team didn't qualify for the Champions League Playoffs at U16 and U17.  Yet, they had 3 YNT players who ended up committing to UNC, Stanford and USC.  I recall a couple of years back 1st game had 50-60 coaches and 30-40 for games 2-3 and about 20 for the last game.


----------



## Lambchop

NoGoal said:


> My DD's ECNL team didn't qualify for the Champions League Playoffs at U16 and U17.  Yet, they had 3 YNT players who ended up committing to UNC, Stanford and USC.  I recall a couple of years back 1st game had 50-60 coaches and 30-40 for games 2-3 and about 20 for the last game.


Four games?  We only get three.  Hope your right, will be checking it out.


----------



## Lambchop

PLSAP said:


> EXACTLY.
> 
> A certain RB ECNL team didn't qualify for the Champions bracket. That same team has several well-known and high caliber YNT players in addition to many other talented players. You think that college coaches are going to not watch them play as well as their teammates who get the opportunity to train with them all the time simply because they didn't qualify for the Champions bracket?


I guess if your team has YNT you certainly would get coaches checking the game out.


----------



## Lambchop

NoGoal said:


> If I recall you were the poster, hyping up the Silverlakes Thanksgiving College Showcase, because your DD's team saw 8 college coaches on the sidelines.


Thanksgiving is a much better time to play!  The intense heat of the summer is not good. The Thanksgiving showcase was great, but not in the middle of the summer!


----------



## NoGoal

Lambchop said:


> Four games?  We only get three.  Hope your right, will be checking it out.


It was 2 years ago and the bracketing could have changed to 3 games this year.


----------



## Lambchop

GoWest said:


> NA Cup and Showcase are not "playoffs" but showcases for second and third level teams that may also have some great individual talent.
> 
> 
> 
> Though the teams may have not have consistently performed well there is some remarkable talent that will draw coaches to the sidelines from EVERY division in D1, D2, D3, NAIA and juco.


If it is a "showcase"  why have finals?  I thought showcases didn't have finals?? Guess I was mistaken.


----------



## NoGoal

Lambchop said:


> If it is a "showcase"  why have finals?  I thought showcases didn't have finals?? Guess I was mistaken.


It's playoffs!

If your DD is ECNL and she played SilverLakes.  It means your either with the WCFC or Slammers 03 team.


----------



## Lambchop

NoGoal said:


> WRONG!  Average college coaches at the loser bracket is 30-40 college coaches.   You should stop hating, because college coaches love SoCal players and not all of SoCal players team's qualified for the Champions bracket.


Not hating, just surprised a the format, a lot of money for for what you get.  I guess if you have money to spare, good for you. We all know club soccer is expensive, a lot of the coaches that are attending (per the ECNL site)  also attend the showcases out here.


----------



## NoGoal

Lambchop said:


> Not hating, just surprised a the format, a lot of money for for what you get.  I guess if you have money to spare, good for you. We all know club soccer is expensive, a lot of the coaches that are attending (per the ECNL site)  also attend the showcases out here.


Obviously you're a U14 parent and still learning.   I don't get your statement, "a lot of money for what you get".  As I posted the teams will still get 4 games and the college coaches will still be watching.


----------



## NoGoal

NoGoal said:


> Obviously you're a U14 parent and still learning.   I don't get your statement, "a lot of money for what you get".  As I posted the teams will still get 4 games and the college coaches will still be watching.


I get now, since your DD is U14 and that age group doesn't play a North American playoff bracket.  You think college coaches aren't going to watch those teams, thus your assumption college coaches won't be watching those players.  LMAO, you are one of those parents who think your DD is "IT" for playing on a top 3 team.  You have a lot to learn, there will be players committed to better schools on middle of the standings ECNL teams or Girls DA teams. NOT all of the players on a top 3 ECNL or Girls DA will commit to top academic universities at a Power 5 school.


----------



## Soccer43

there is a difference between a team with a few YNT players playing in the North American Cup and a low level team playing in the Showcase because they had a very poor season.  On the top ECNL teams most players are great.  On the middle and lower level ECNL players there are many players that are not better than players on CSL Premier teams and top flight SCDSL.  Many players on ECNL teams get those spots because of politics, money, personal preferences of the coach, and other issues that have nothing to do with the ability of the player.   

I always thought it would be interesting to see a tournament in So Cal that included the ECNL teams, the CSL premier teams, and the SCDSL top flight one teams.    Oh, wait, that might be the DA now....


----------



## NoGoal

Soccer43 said:


> there is a difference between a team with a few YNT players playing in the North American Cup and a low level team playing in the Showcase because they had a very poor season.  On the top ECNL teams most players are great.  On the middle and lower level ECNL players there are many players that are not better than players on CSL Premier teams and top flight SCDSL.  Many players on ECNL teams get those spots because of politics, money, personal preferences of the coach, and other issues that have nothing to do with the ability of the player.
> 
> I always thought it would be interesting to see a tournament in So Cal that included the ECNL teams, the CSL premier teams, and the SCDSL top flight one teams.    Oh, wait, that might be the DA now....


I agree there is a difference between bottom and middle of the standings ECNL teams.  You are mistaken though if you think all of the players on a top ECNL team are great.  If that was the case ALL of those players would end up committed with full tides at the elite universities at Power 5 schools. It just isn't the case.  I suggest you research and look where the 1st place WCFC U18 team whom also won a past ECNL championship and where their players are committed to play this fall.  Most notable is Stanford and UCLA, because both of those players are YNT players.  One of their best non-YNT player is committed to Dartmouth.  The majority to mid-majors such as Rice, University of San Francisco, etc.


----------



## NoGoal

Soccer43 said:


> I always thought it would be interesting to see a tournament in So Cal that included the ECNL teams, the CSL premier teams, and the SCDSL top flight one teams.    Oh, wait, that might be the DA now....


If you think Girls DA is going to change how college coaches recruit and select their players.  Well good luck, I've watched a few WPSL games already which 2 of the teams were from Girls DA clubs and their players mostly home grown.  Let's just say,  not impressed....looks more like glorified HS kickball.


----------



## NoGoal

NoGoal said:


> I agree there is a difference between bottom and middle of the standings ECNL teams.  You are mistaken though if you think all of the players on a top ECNL team are great.  If that was the case ALL of those players would end up committed with full tides at the elite universities at Power 5 schools. It just isn't the case.  I suggest you research and look where the 1st place WCFC U18 team whom also won a past ECNL championship and where their players are committed to play this fall.  Most notable is Stanford and UCLA, because both of those players are YNT players.  One of their best non-YNT player is committed to Dartmouth.  The majority to mid-majors such as Rice, University of San Francisco, etc.


A few younger parents maybe wondering why is a top ECNL team that has also won an ECNL Championship doesn't have "ALL" their players committed to Stanford, UCLA, UVA, UNC, DUKE, etc.! Well there are many variables, depends on the schools style of play and their player preferences.  A top team may not play the style that would be successful at the college level, their players not fast enough, touch not good enough, not quick enough, they don't work back, they play kick and run, etc.  

As the cliche goes "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".


----------



## Soccer43

I did say "most" of the players on top ECNL teams not "all".  I have definitely seen many mediocre players on the rosters of top ECNL teams as well.  

In terms of recruiting and the DA I don't think the DA is going to change how the coaches will recruit.  They will continue to look for the best players that match their style of play no matter where those players are.  I was talking about assessing the top players and challenging the assumption that all ECNL players are the best.  The ECNL has been a great system for many players but other great players have been excluded through no fault of their own.


----------



## NoGoal

Soccer43 said:


> I did say "most" of the players on top ECNL teams not "all".  I have definitely seen many mediocre players on the rosters of top ECNL teams as well.
> 
> In terms of recruiting and the DA I don't think the DA is going to change how the coaches will recruit.  They will continue to look for the best players that match their style of play no matter where those players are.  I was talking about assessing the top players and challenging the assumption that all ECNL players are the best.  The ECNL has been a great system for many players but other great players have been excluded through no fault of their own.


I agree with your post.  Back to Lampchops, U14 is still a year away from getting serious recruiting action and many and I say many U14 parents on a top level ECNL or Girls DA team will be dissapointed, if their DD isn't recruited by her top 5 listed school.  It's going to happen!

Again, it's why the vast amount of uolder parents stop posting.  Either their DD stopped playing, wasn't recruited by their top school, nothing to brag about anymore, especially if a player is on a top team and committed to a low mid-major school, etc.

At Uolders, I find it comical as to why parents don't talk about what schools their players are being recruited at.  Maybe it has to do with don't count your chicks before they are harch, but it does become sort of taboo and another reason postings come to a crawl.


----------



## NoGoal

Soccer43 said:


> I did say "most" of the players on top ECNL teams not "all".  I have definitely seen many mediocre players on the rosters of top ECNL teams as well.
> 
> In terms of recruiting and the DA I don't think the DA is going to change how the coaches will recruit.  They will continue to look for the best players that match their style of play no matter where those players are.  I was talking about assessing the top players and challenging the assumption that all ECNL players are the best.  The ECNL has been a great system for many players but other great players have been excluded through no fault of their own.


I would say, there are mediocre players on "ALL" top teams, from any league including ECNL, National League and yes Girls DA which will be more watered down than ECNL in the grand scheme of things.

The Legends 98/99 National League team in my DDs age group is a great example.  The best player on that team is committed to Wazzu (Wash St) and the rest to mid-major and D2 schools.


----------



## CaliKlines

NoGoal said:


> Again, it's why the vast amount of uolder parents stop posting.  Either their DD stopped playing, wasn't recruited by their top school, nothing to brag about anymore, especially if a player is on a top team and committed to a low mid-major school, etc.


 My kid was recruited to one of her top 5 schools on her list that is a perfect academic fit (with one of the best engineering programs in the country) and is ranked in the top 25 D1 soccer programs. I stopped posting because of your know it all attitudes and brackishly immature postings. Plain and simple. Time to move on. Your kid graduated.  So should you.


----------



## Lambchop

NoGoal said:


> Obviously you're a U14 parent and still learning.   I don't get your statement, "a lot of money for what you get".  As I posted the teams will still get 4 games and the college coaches will still be watching.


Let me clarify, there are several college showcases locally.  The cost to fly two people to Chicago, hotel for four days, eating out for three meals a day for two people, the cost of a rental car and other miscellaneous items all add up to a lot of money.  The showcase and north american group are competing against the champions group for coaches attendance.  Thirty-two teams to view in Champions league, thirty-two in the other two groups.  Hmm, so many hours in the day.  I am sure there will be a few coaches coming to view a few of the thirty-two teams in the showcase and north american groups, but the reality is the majority will mostly watching the champions league.  Maybe ECNL wants to put on  a good show.  Maybe money should be spent locally at showcases, families are spending  $1,500- $1,800 approximately.  I hope all the posters are correct, that all the girls in the Showcase and North American group have 20-30 coaches at their games, that would be terrific.  Even 10-15 would be great.


----------



## NoGoal

CaliKlines said:


> My kid was recruited to one her top 5 schools on her list that is a perfect academic fit (with one of the best engineering programs in the country) and is a ranked in the top 25 D1 soccer programs. I stopped posting because of your know it all attitudes and brackishly immature postings. Plain and simple. Time to move on. Your kid graduated.  So should you.


You really want to go there?  I recall your PM to me a year or so ago in which you told me a certain school pretty much said, thank you.  I also recall you pumping up Indian and Oregon,  what happen to those schools?  LMAO!


----------



## NoGoal

Lambchop said:


> Let me clarify, there are several college showcases locally.  The cost to fly two people to Chicago, hotel for four days, eating out for three meals a day for two people, the cost of a rental car and other miscellaneous items all add up to a lot of money.  The showcase and north american group are competing against the champions group for coaches attendance.  Thirty-two teams to view in Champions league, thirty-two in the other two groups.  Hmm, so many hours in the day.  I am sure there will be a few coaches coming to view a few of the thirty-two teams in the showcase and north american groups, but the reality is the majority will mostly watching the champions league.  Maybe ECNL wants to put on  a good show.  Maybe money should be spent locally at showcases, families are spending  $1,500- $1,800 approximately.  I hope all the posters are correct, that all the girls in the Showcase and North American group have 20-30 coaches at their games, that would be terrific.  Even 10-15 would be great.


Do you ever listen?  You don't even know what you're posting about and ASSUMING!  Maybe you don't know  schools bring 2-3 coaches to showcases and each coach at most watches a half, sometimes 15 mins.  Rarely will they watch an entire game, so they see as many prospects as possible. On top of that they are evaluting the players they want to watch who have contacted them and yes, the don't watch every player who sends them an email.   It's similar to adults applying for jobs and they don't get called for an interview and some do, then some get a 2nd interview and then an offer is extended.

As for cost, the players playoff fees are already built into the travel fees.  Again, you have a U14 DD and is why you are probably traveling to watch your DD play.  It's not required for you to travel to Illinois to watch her play.  Many Uolder parents don't travel to watch their DD's anymore, especially if they have already committed.


----------



## NoGoal

CaliKlines said:


> My kid was recruited to one her top 5 schools on her list that is a perfect academic fit (with one of the best engineering programs in the country) and is a ranked in the top 25 D1 soccer programs. I stopped posting because of your know it all attitudes and brackishly immature postings. Plain and simple. Time to move on. Your kid graduated.  So should you.


Do you really want to go there?  I recall your PM to me a year or so ago in which you told me a certain school pretty much said, politely "NO" thank you.  I also recall you pumping up Indiana and Oregon,  what happen to those schools?  You also posted, your DD wanted to attend a cooler climate weather school, yet committed to NC State which is HOT, HUMID with Legends connections. LMAO!  Keep pumping those pompoms!


----------



## NoGoal

CaliKlines said:


> My kid was recruited to one her top 5 schools on her list that is a perfect academic fit (with one of the best engineering programs in the country) and is a ranked in the top 25 D1 soccer programs. I stopped posting because of your know it all attitudes and brackishly immature postings. Plain and simple. Time to move on. Your kid graduated.  So should you.


Since, my DD has graduated and there really is no need to be civil.  Everyone knows you are a HOMER to whatever club team, league, HS, college or conference your kid is associated with. 

An example of your homerism.  Your post in the Bigsoccer forum college thread, post #81.  You got the conference wrong when picking who would win the title.  BTW, you shouldn't use your real name. #becreative

http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/2016-pac12-thread.2034214/page-4#post-34551777


----------



## GoWest

Lambchop said:


> Let me clarify, there are several college showcases locally.  The cost to fly two people to Chicago, hotel for four days, eating out for three meals a day for two people, the cost of a rental car and other miscellaneous items all add up to a lot of money.  The showcase and north american group are competing against the champions group for coaches attendance.  Thirty-two teams to view in Champions league, thirty-two in the other two groups.  Hmm, so many hours in the day.  I am sure there will be a few coaches coming to view a few of the thirty-two teams in the showcase and north american groups, but the reality is the majority will mostly watching the champions league.  Maybe ECNL wants to put on  a good show.  Maybe money should be spent locally at showcases, families are spending  $1,500- $1,800 approximately.  I hope all the posters are correct, that all the girls in the Showcase and North American group have 20-30 coaches at their games, that would be terrific.  Even 10-15 would be great.


@Lambchop an all-one-stop-shopping event like this is considered golden for recruiters.



NoGoal said:


> Since, my DD has graduated and there really is no need to be civil.  Everyone knows you are a HOMER to whatever club team, league, HS, college or conference your kid is associated with.
> 
> An example of your homerism.  Your post in the Bigsoccer forum college thread, post #81.  You got the conference wrong when picking who would win the title.  BTW, you shouldn't use your real name. #becreative
> 
> http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/2016-pac12-thread.2034214/page-4#post-34551777


@NoGoal curious as to what school in the Pac12(?) your DD attends?


----------



## NoGoal

GoWest said:


> @NoGoal curious as to what school in the Pac12(?) your DD attends?


University of Washington.  College education and gradss is a given.  With that said, My wife and I are very realistic about any non-YNT Freshmen playing for any college team. Her short term soccer goal, make the 22 man travel roster.


----------



## NoGoal

GoWest said:


> @NoGoal curious as to what school in the Pac12(?) your DD attends?


And personally, I wanted her to stay close to home and commit to UC Irvine.  A highly ranked University and Scott Juniper was her ODP Region IV head coach and I liked him a lot.  She wasn't feeling the campus vibe though and fell in love with UDub's campus a few years at the Seattle ECNL Playoffs.  Her team while up there took a campus tour with the head coaches.


----------



## CaliKlines

NoGoal said:


> Do you really want to go there?  I recall your PM to me a year or so ago in which you told me a certain school pretty much said, politely "NO" thank you.  I also recall you pumping up Indiana and Oregon,  what happen to those schools?  You also posted, your DD wanted to attend a cooler climate weather school, yet committed to NC State which is HOT, HUMID with Legends connections. LMAO!  Keep pumping those pompoms!


Yeah, just like that.


----------



## NoGoal

CaliKlines said:


> Yeah, just like that.


Yet you keep reading and replied! #fishon


----------



## gkrent

Lambchop said:


> I hope all the posters are correct, that all the girls in the Showcase and North American group have 20-30 coaches at their games, that would be terrific.  Even 10-15 would be great.


There will be.  Don't worry.


----------



## bababooey

Lambchop said:


> Not hating, just surprised a the format, a lot of money for for what you get.  I guess if you have money to spare, good for you. We all know club soccer is expensive, a lot of the coaches that are attending (per the ECNL site)  also attend the showcases out here.


Look at it this way Lambchop.......for some parents spending large sums of money on the club soccer experience (traveling far and wide for their player) is really prepaying the cost of college tuition if their player gets serious scholarship money. It's a gamble for many parents. Do I spend lots of money while my player is U8 to HS Senior year for club soccer, long distance tournaments, privates, etc. and hope it pays off with scholarship money? There is no one answer that will apply to all parents and players.

I agree that going to Chicago for a four day tournament is a big ask from parents for what could be very little payoff for their players.


----------



## bababooey

Soccer43 said:


> there is a difference between a team with a few YNT players playing in the North American Cup and a low level team playing in the Showcase because they had a very poor season.  On the top ECNL teams most players are great.  On the middle and lower level ECNL players there are many players that are not better than players on CSL Premier teams and top flight SCDSL.  *Many players on ECNL teams get those spots because of politics, money, personal preferences of the coach, and other issues that have nothing to do with the ability of the player.   *
> 
> I always thought it would be interesting to see a tournament in So Cal that included the ECNL teams, the CSL premier teams, and the SCDSL top flight one teams.    Oh, wait, that might be the DA now....


My favorite is the coach who will take a player that does not belong on the team, but that coach thinks picking that lesser player will lead to the "great" player following the lesser player.


----------



## NoGoal

bababooey said:


> My favorite is the coach who will take a player that does not belong on the team, but that coach thinks picking that lesser player will lead to the "great" player following the lesser player.


or vice versa....the "great" player moves and packages a few teammates to ease the transition to the new club team.  Unfortunately, with a coaching change the following year.  The few teammates were cut.


----------



## GoWest

Soccer43 said:


> Any comments or thoughts about the playoffs coming up?  Predictions on the final four in each age group?
> 
> http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/ecnl-national-playoffs//


The winner of the NA Cup and the Showcase Cup will respectively be the 33 and 49 "best" team in ECNL? Is that correct?

@Soccer43 said "Many players on ECNL teams get those spots because of politics, money, personal preferences of the coach, and other issues that have nothing to do with the ability of the player."

Could that also be said of some the YNT through 18u WNT campers / teams?


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Paying for ecnl is from U14 to U17 basically.

So that's 4 years at roughly 6000 per year or 24k.  Assuming your kid just played at some select club Those fees would be about 4000 over 4 years.  

So we are really looking at about 20k extra for ecnl or GDA for the matter.

If your kid gets 5000 over 4 years in college than it's a wash and worth the  money.


----------



## NoGoal

eastbaysoccer said:


> Paying for ecnl is from U14 to U17 basically.
> 
> So that's 4 years at roughly 6000 per year or 24k.  Assuming your kid just played at some select club Those fees would be about 4000 over 4 years.
> 
> So we are really looking at about 20k extra for ecnl or GDA for the matter.
> 
> If your kid gets 5000 over 4 years in college than it's a wash and worth the  money.


For a few parents, paying 5-6K in club soccer fees including travel, so their kids gain UCLA, Stanford, CAL, Duke, etc admissions as a preferred walk-on is a drop in the bucket for them.


----------



## Lambchop

NoGoal said:


> Do you ever listen?  You don't even know what you're posting about and ASSUMING!  Maybe you don't know  schools bring 2-3 coaches to showcases and each coach at most watches a half, sometimes 15 mins.  Rarely will they watch an entire game, so they see as many prospects as possible. On top of that they are evaluting the players they want to watch who have contacted them and yes, the don't watch every player who sends them an email.   It's similar to adults applying for jobs and they don't get called for an interview and some do, then some get a 2nd interview and then an offer is extended.
> 
> As for cost, the players playoff fees are already built into the travel fees.  Again, you have a U14 DD and is why you are probably traveling to watch your DD play.  It's not required for you to travel to Illinois to watch her play.  Many Uolder parents don't travel to watch their DD's anymore, especially if they have already committed.


Travel fees?? Maybe for those in the Champions league, don't know.???  Anyway, Champions league is a tournament/playoff, the other two groups are showcases right but they have a champion after single elimination.  What I said, interesting format.  Guess you have to have a champion in each group .  By the way, I am well aware of the coaches moving around and spending in most cases a limited amount of time at each game they want to see.  I am also very aware that only the best and brightest go to the top 5.  Academics, academics, test scores, test scores, outstanding skills, great player, YNT player,  that's what the top schools want.  Some girls just can't handle a rigorous academic institution, we all get that.  Some won't be able to compete, get that.  You are making too many assumptions about what some parents know.


----------



## NoGoal

Lambchop said:


> Travel fees?? Maybe for those in the Champions league, don't know.???  Anyway, Champions league is a tournament/playoff, the other two groups are showcases right but they have a champion after single elimination.  What I said, interesting format.  Guess you have to have a champion in each group .  By the way, I am well aware of the coaches moving around and spending in most cases a limited amount of time at each game they want to see.  I am also very aware that only the best and brightest go to the top 5.  Academics, academics, test scores, test scores, outstanding skills, great player, YNT player,  that's what the top schools want.  Some girls just can't handle a rigorous academic institution, we all get that.  Some won't be able to compete, get that.  You are making too many assumptions about what some parents know.


You are way to focused on winning.  You seem to believe winning team = having highly recruited players. #fallacy

As for GPA, any highly regarded YNT player with an average 3.0 GPA can still get into a lot of the top schools.  Not Stanford, but I have heard of exceptions being made at CAL and UCLA.  Minimum needed for Stanford is only a 3.5 GPA for YNT players


----------



## Soccer43

GoWest said:


> The winner of the NA Cup and the Showcase Cup will respectively be the 33 and 49 "best" team in ECNL? Is that correct?
> 
> @Soccer43 said "Many players on ECNL teams get those spots because of politics, money, personal preferences of the coach, and other issues that have nothing to do with the ability of the player."
> 
> Could that also be said of some the YNT through 18u WNT campers / teams?


I am not sure that being number 33 or 49 of anything is very exciting - and yes, of course several of the YNT selections are not actually remarkable either.  Many are one and done if you follow the camp rosters from camp to camp.


----------



## NoGoal

Soccer43 said:


> I am not sure that being number 33 or 49 of anything is very exciting - and yes, of course several of the YNT selections are not actually remarkable either.  Many are one and done if you follow the camp rosters from camp to camp.


A player ranked #33 or #49 in the TDS national recruiting class....can be exciting.  Attending nationally ranked #33 and #49 university can be too.


----------



## GoWest

NoGoal said:


> A player ranked #33 or #49 in the TDS national recruiting class....can be exciting.  Attending nationally ranked #33 and #49 university can be too.


The entertainment value of TDS is right up there with Casey Kasem's Top 40 LOL!


----------



## NoGoal

GoWest said:


> The entertainment value of TDS is right up there with Casey Kasem's Top 40 LOL!


I agree, unfortunately college coaches dig it.  In some cases the schools reference TDS if their recruiting class is ranked in the top 25.


----------



## MakeAPlay

NoGoal said:


> For a few parents, paying 5-6K in club soccer fees including travel, so their kids gain UCLA, Stanford, CAL, Duke, etc admissions as a preferred walk-on is a drop in the bucket for them.


Some will do more than that.  Think family donations to soccer programs.  At the end of the day soccer is a non-revenue sport and the coaches have to raise additional funds.  The rabbit hole is much deeper than many could imagine.


----------



## MakeAPlay

eastbaysoccer said:


> Paying for ecnl is from U14 to U17 basically.
> 
> So that's 4 years at roughly 6000 per year or 24k.  Assuming your kid just played at some select club Those fees would be about 4000 over 4 years.
> 
> So we are really looking at about 20k extra for ecnl or GDA for the matter.
> 
> If your kid gets 5000 over 4 years in college than it's a wash and worth the  money.


Here are some real numbers.  We spent a little over $31k on club soccer from U10-U18 including everything (ECNL from U14-U18, ODP, Nike Manchester Cup, privates etc.).  Depending upon the school you are talking about tuition is anywhere from about $20k-$70k.  If my player had gotten a half scholarship from any decent school in the country we win on the math.  And that doesn't include the life lessons, discipline, peer group, fun, bonding and memories.  If she had gotten $5k a year over that time for a school with in state tuition and/or it was a school that was highly ranked and well respected then I would still feel like we won.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccer43 said:


> I always thought it would be interesting to see a tournament in So Cal that included the ECNL teams, the CSL premier teams, and the SCDSL top flight one teams.    Oh, wait, that might be the DA now....


There used to be a tournament like that it was called National Cup.  Unfortunately as with most things that happen when greed and ego get involved many of the involved parties went their seperate ways.  I will tell you that at least on the girls side it was the usual suspects that won it every year at every age group.  The only team that isn't currently one of the 8 SoCal ECNL teams to win one prior to the split of the leagues is Laguna Hills Eclipse.


----------



## MakeAPlay

bababooey said:


> Look at it this way Lambchop.......for some parents spending large sums of money on the club soccer experience (traveling far and wide for their player) is really prepaying the cost of college tuition if their player gets serious scholarship money. It's a gamble for many parents. Do I spend lots of money while my player is U8 to HS Senior year for club soccer, long distance tournaments, privates, etc. and hope it pays off with scholarship money? There is no one answer that will apply to all parents and players.
> 
> I agree that going to Chicago for a four day tournament is a big ask from parents for what could be very little payoff for their players.


I keep having to remind myself that there are mostly ULittle parents on the forum.  There will be a lot of coaches and at least 15 or so will be watching most games and I have seen 80+ on the sidelines for games. College coaches recruit players not teams.  You will be surprised at how many diamonds there are on teams that aren't at the very top of an age group.  Some of the best players come from those teams that are in 6-10 ranking range in an age group.  You might see a couple players that are pretty dominant that make a decent team really good because of their individual brilliance.  It's definitely worth the money for 95% of the players.  You just have to ask yourself 4 questions and be honest with yourself.

1. Is your player going to play at least 33-40% of the time?

2. Does your player have the grades and time management skills to play college soccer?

3. Does your player REALLY want to play college soccer?

4. Is your player will to put in the work to contact the coaches (with a little parent assistance)?

If the answer is yes to all 4 it is worth it and she will find a college that is a good fit.  If not, get her on a good select team as club soccer and all the travel is a waste, unless of course you don't care about the $31-$40k you are going to spend on it (more power to you if you don't).

Either way good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MakeAPlay

NoGoal said:


> You are way to focused on winning.  You seem to believe winning team = having highly recruited players. #fallacy
> 
> As for GPA, any highly regarded YNT player with an average 3.0 GPA can still get into a lot of the top schools.  Not Stanford, but I have heard of exceptions being made at CAL and UCLA.  Minimum needed for Stanford is only a 3.5 GPA for YNT players


Very true sir.  Coaches recruit players not teams.


----------



## MakeAPlay

NoGoal said:


> A player ranked #33 or #49 in the TDS national recruiting class....can be exciting.  Attending nationally ranked #33 and #49 university can be too.


I'm going to say that it is more exciting to go to a university from #33-#49 than to be a youth player ranked there.  At the end of the day it is about the academics on the girls side.  The player ranking thing sorts itself out in college.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Lambchop said:


> That's a lot of money to spend for that.  Doubt there will be very many of any coaches  watching  the losers bracket with all the other games going on.


That is incorrect.


----------



## Striker17

MakeAPlay said:


> I keep having to remind myself that there are mostly ULittle parents on the forum.  There will be a lot of coaches and at least 15 or so will be watching most games and I have seen 80+ on the sidelines for games. College coaches recruit players not teams.  You will be surprised at how many diamonds there are on teams that aren't at the very top of an age group.  Some of the best players come from those teams that are in 6-10 ranking range in an age group.  You might see a couple players that are pretty dominant that make a decent team really good because of their individual brilliance.  It's definitely worth the money for 95% of the players.  You just have to ask yourself 4 questions and be honest with yourself.
> 
> 1. Is your player going to play at least 33-40% of the time?
> 
> 2. Does your player have the grades and time management skills to play college soccer?
> 
> 3. Does your player REALLY want to play college soccer?
> 
> 4. Is your player will to put in the work to contact the coaches (with a little parent assistance)?
> 
> If the answer is yes to all 4 it is worth it and she will find a college that is a good fit.  If not, get her on a good select team as club soccer and all the travel is a waste, unless of course you don't care about the $31-$40k you are going to spend on it (more power to you if you don't).
> 
> Either way good luck to you and your player.


 Great post so helpful! Thanks for all the insight


----------



## NoGoal

MakeAPlay said:


> Very true sir.  Coaches recruit players not teams.


To put it in perspective for ulittle parents.  As a comparison, YNT team rostered players (YNT caps) have around 35-40 players on average in each age group.  There are 22,000 high schools, meaning there are 22,000 class valedictorians per year. Another reason why regarded YNT players with a 3.0-3.5 GPA get admission exceptions to top univerisites.


----------



## NoGoal

NoGoal said:


> To put it in perspective for ulittle parents.  As a comparison, YNT team rostered players (YNT caps) have around 35-40 players on average in each age group.  There are 22,000 high schools, meaning there are 22,000 class valedictorians per year. Another reason why regarded YNT players with a 3.0-3.5 GPA get admission exceptions to top univerisites.


When club coaches tell parents and parents post get good grades and test scores.  It's for the average club soccer player.  A college head coach has to balance out their overall team GPA (monetary bonus) and can't pull admission strings for those players.

True story, a class of 2016 player verbally committed to UNC as a preferred walk-on (no scholarship money) and she wasn't a YNT player.  She did NOT gain UNC admissions on her own merit and the head coach did NOT try to get an exception (why would he).  Yet, if the player was Brianna Pinto...I bet she gets the admission exception.  The player ended up playing for San Diego St, still a very good academic Cal State School though.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

GoWest said:


> The entertainment value of TDS is right up there with Casey Kasem's Top 40 LOL!


You must be pretty old to remember that.


----------



## GoWest

Sheriff Joe said:


> You must be pretty old to remember that.


Antique-ish.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

GoWest said:


> Antique-ish.


Me too.


----------



## Dos Equis

NoGoal said:


> True story, a class of 2016 player verbally committed to UNC as a preferred walk-on (no scholarship money) and she wasn't a YNT player.  She did NOT gain UNC admissions on her own merit and the head coach did NOT try to get an exception (why would he).  Yet, if the player was Brianna Pinto...I bet she gets the admission exception.  The player ended up playing for San Diego St, still a very good academic Cal State School though.


If the player gets no money and no help with admissions, and all the coach is committing to is to let her walk-on (effectively try-out) should she gain admittance on her own merit, technically I do not think that is a "commit."    In order to sign a letter of intent, you must be a scholarship player.  But we understandably expand the commit definition to include players who get admission assistance -- a "golden ticket" in the parlance of many schools, particularly the Ivy League or D3 schools, and never sign anything.   Expanding that definition to players who get no admissions help at all from soccer seems a stretch, though every club list includes them.


----------



## NoGoal

Dos Equis said:


> If the player gets no money and no help with admissions, and all the coach is committing to is to let her walk-on (effectively try-out) should she gain admittance on her own merit, technically I do not think that is a "commit."    In order to sign a letter of intent, you must be a scholarship player.  But we understandably expand the commit definition to include players who get admission assistance -- a "golden ticket" in the parlance of many schools, particularly the Ivy League or D3 schools, and never sign anything.   Expanding that definition to players who get no admissions help at all from soccer seems a stretch, though every club list includes them.


She was a preferred walk-on.  Preferred walk-on don't need to tryout and are given a roster spot.  Thus the reason most parents and club coaches state, grades are important which should already be a given.

As for my example it's to prove there are admissions exceptions for average academic YNT players vs an average club player verbal commit.  As the saying goes, the scholarship offer indicates how much a college coach values a player.


----------



## Striker17

Thought this was very timely and a great read :

http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2017/06/13/the-thousands-of-unique-paths-to-college-and-beyond/


----------



## Kongzilla

Make A Play .... Great post!


----------



## doubled

Schedules have been posted.

https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=356


----------



## Sombitch

bababooey said:


> Look at it this way Lambchop.......for some parents spending large sums of money on the club soccer experience (traveling far and wide for their player) is really prepaying the cost of college tuition if their player gets serious scholarship money. It's a gamble for many parents. Do I spend lots of money while my player is U8 to HS Senior year for club soccer, long distance tournaments, privates, etc. and hope it pays off with scholarship money? There is no one answer that will apply to all parents and players.
> 
> I agree that going to Chicago for a four day tournament is a big ask from parents for what could be very little payoff for their players.


Ok fair enough it's a lot of money ,... Especially if folks believe coaches aren't going.  So now,.. Let's say your child is committed - do they take that same attitude and not go because they are already committed?  

Their team is still competing in playoffs.  So they should live out their commitment to their team,  and if they are committed,.. I can guarantee their future coaches will be there checking in on their progress.  

Teams like west coast u18 as mentioned all are committed, yet are still flying across the country to try and win a national championship.


----------



## Kongzilla

My DD's play on an ECNL team and believe me there is going to be alot of Exposure and Coaches there... If you go to the ECNL website and check out the Colleges and Coaches that have committed to attend by name, you might be impressed, I know I am!

There are not too many venues like the ECNL Playoffs and Showcases that will have the Quality and Quantity of DI, DII Coaches watching the best Elite Girl Club teams compete on a National Level. 

It is Expensive, but this is the part of the Deal when you sign up for Elite Soccer if your team does well you expect to play on a National Circuit, is it worth yet yes! Whether my DD gets the Golden Ticket of a scholarship or not. 

At the end of the Day . . . I am going to give my DD the best competitive platform to compete on, the resources needed and the best possible chance to pursue her dreams, all within the reasonable means that I have. 

In my opinion, there is no other league or venue in America that has a proven track record of delivering the types of quality teams and players that feed into the College network, in particular, the Power 5 Conferences.

Word...!


----------



## bababooey

Kongzilla said:


> My DD's play on an ECNL team and believe me there is going to be alot of Exposure and Coaches there... If you go to the ECNL website and check out the Colleges and Coaches that have committed to attend by name, you might be impressed, I know I am!
> 
> There are not too many venues like the ECNL Playoffs and Showcases that will have the Quality and Quantity of DI, DII Coaches watching the best Elite Girl Club teams compete on a National Level.
> 
> It is Expensive, but this is the part of the Deal when you sign up for Elite Soccer if your team does well you expect to play on a National Circuit, is it worth yet yes! Whether my DD gets the Golden Ticket of a scholarship or not.
> 
> At the end of the Day . . . I am going to give my DD the best competitive platform to compete on, the resources needed and the best possible chance to pursue her dreams, all within the reasonable means that I have.
> 
> In my opinion, there is no other league or venue in America that has a proven track record of delivering the types of quality teams and players that feed into the College network, in particular, the Power 5 Conferences.
> 
> Word...!


Kong - I have disagreed with a fair amount of your previous posts, but this one is very good and I agree with your position. Thank you for the thoughtful and honest post.

Good luck to your dd and her teammates.


----------



## Kongzilla

Bababooey . . .  Thanks, I appreciate it truly!


----------



## Kongzilla

HAPPY Fathers Day. . .  to All the Dad's that are grind hard for their kids!


----------



## GoWest

I see Surf Cup has their annual "accepted teams" link up. Does Silverlakes do that at some point?

I also see Surf Cup has a DA only bracket. I know DA is only supposed play other DA teams but both Surf and Silver are prior to start of official season? I'm hoping to see a few ECNL versus DA games, you know, just to see what we see. I am hoping Silver doesn't have a DA only bracket to appease.


----------



## PLSAP

GoWest said:


> I see Surf Cup has their annual "accepted teams" link up. Does Silverlakes do that at some point?
> 
> I also see Surf Cup has a DA only bracket. I know DA is only supposed play other DA teams but both Surf and Silver are prior to start of official season? I'm hoping to see a few ECNL versus DA games, you know, just to see what we see. I am hoping Silver doesn't have a DA only bracket to appease.


I would too, but I doubt it's going to happen. It was made clear early on that DA teams would only play in tournaments with a DA only bracket


----------



## Sombitch

Silverlakes would have slammers beach and legends for sure.  Beyond that,... It's hard to say 

But looking at the ages across the board 

Surf has 

Surf
Blues 
West coast 
La Galaxy 
La Galaxy sd
Pats
Real

And then the out of area teams 

Burlingame 
Ca thorns
Crossfire
Psv
San Jose Earthquakes
FC united


----------



## GoWest

Sombitch said:


> Silverlakes would have slammers beach and legends for sure.  Beyond that,... It's hard to say
> 
> But looking at the ages across the board
> 
> Surf has
> 
> Surf
> Blues
> West coast
> La Galaxy
> La Galaxy sd
> Pats
> Real
> 
> And then the out of area teams
> 
> Burlingame
> Ca thorns
> Crossfire
> Psv
> San Jose Earthquakes
> FC united


Thanks for the look see on that. So Silver Slammers, Beach, Legends and maybe Soreno, del sol, Eagles, Real, LA Gal, LA Prem...?

A Silverlakes link would be helpful


----------



## GoWest

On another note, here's my picks for the Champions League to win it all:

U14 PDA (and then there was GDA...)
U15 SoCal Blues (just too much...)
U16 SoCal Blues (ditto...)
U17 Slammers (back to back to back...)
U18 PDA (just feels like a PDA year...)

East and West coasts baby! LOL


----------



## MakeAPlay

GoWest said:


> On another note, here's my picks for the Champions League to win it all:
> 
> U14 PDA (and then there was GDA...)
> U15 SoCal Blues (just too much...)
> U16 SoCal Blues (ditto...)
> U17 Slammers (back to back to back...)
> U18 PDA (just feels like a PDA year...)
> 
> East and West coasts baby! LOL


That would be quite a feat for SoCal to have 3 ECNL champs.  Good luck to all of the SoCal teams!


----------



## Sombitch

For the u16 Concorde can take Blues they just have to withstand the direct onslaught. 

Tophat or FC Stars have a chance as well.  

The Blues 15 I agree. Way too much to handle 

If Slammers can win three years in a row that would be incredible.


----------



## Kongzilla

U14 ECNL Championship Series

- Two Cali Teams made into the final Four "Semi" round 

- Arsenal v Solar Chelsea
- Surf v Eclipse 

- Arsenal Dominated their bracket
- Surf was challenged but got into semis via Goal Differential
- Strikers got off to rough start with a tie and lost for the first two games and could not recover

Great Job Cali teams - way to represent

Total Count (3 Games) who watched our games
- 35 D1 + National team coaches in Attendance who watched atleast 1/2 of a game 

Great experience so far!


----------



## Soccer43

Great if you're in championships but very few to no coaches at the Showcase games


----------



## Kongzilla

Soccer43 said:


> Great if you're in championships but very few to no coaches at the Showcase games


What Age Groups?


----------



## MakeAPlay

U14 is just the beginning.  Have patience grasshopper.  Let the process run it's course.


----------



## Soccer43

Kongzilla said:


> What Age Groups?


U16's - important recruiting time for ECNL players.  But, if you  are not on top teams in the championship games it seems like not any more coaches at the showcase games than at other college showcases.  Not my DD's team so I wasn't there personally but that's what was reported.


----------



## Kongzilla

Thanks soccer43


----------



## turftoe9

I don't know about that,  our 1st game against the Strikers U14 we had over 20 colleges watching. 
Santa Clara
Florida State
Auburn
Alabama
Texas Tech
Univ of TX
Univ of Kansas
Kansas State
Univ of OK
Oklahoma State
Iowa State
TCU
Virginia Tech
Syracuse
Air Force
South Carolina
Grand Canyon University 
Grand Valley State University
Clemson
U of Georgia 
UCLA
Providence
U of Denver
U of Arkansas


----------



## Kongzilla

Turf toe - same experience for us U14 dozens of coaches watching DD's play


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccer43 said:


> U16's - important recruiting time for ECNL players.  But, if you  are not on top teams in the championship games it seems like not any more coaches at the showcase games than at other college showcases.  Not my DD's team so I wasn't there personally but that's what was reported.


My player wasn't on a team that ever advanced out of pool play yet her team would routinely have 40-60+ coaches watching.  I have run into Jill Ellis, BJ Snow, April Heinrich and others at these events on the sidelines.  Your friends situation sounds odd.


----------



## NoGoal

My buddy has a 2002 (U15) DD in the ECNL playoffs. He told me at Fridays 1st game at least 50 college coaches and yesterday game at least 70 college coaches watched.


----------



## Soccer43

I am talking about the teams playing in the "showcase" level.  As you all know there are three levels of competition at the ECNL playoffs.  Championship, North America Cup, and Showcase.  

If your team is playing at the Championship level, then yes even *all the pool play games *have a ton of coaches.  *U14 games are all championship level only*.  They don't have North America Cup or Showcase - only 16 top teams from across the country so of course tons of coaches.  The bottom level of the ECNL teams that are playing in the Showcase games are not seeing many coaches.


----------



## Soccer43

I have watched a lot of ECNL games at all levels and the top teams have some amazing talent for the most part.  The lower ranked teams are often no better that teams playing in other platforms in my opinion.


----------



## NoGoal

Soccer43 said:


> I am talking about the teams playing in the "showcase" level.  As you all know there are three levels of competition at the ECNL playoffs.  Championship, North America Cup, and Showcase.
> 
> If your team is playing at the Championship level, then yes even *all the pool play games *have a ton of coaches.  *U14 games are all championship level only*.  They don't have North America Cup or Showcase - only 16 top teams from across the country so of course tons of coaches.  The bottom level of the ECNL teams that are playing in the Showcase games are not seeing many coaches.


I have never experienced the showcase bracket games.  My DD has only played in the Champions and North American brackets.  My take is, if your DD is U16 playing in the showcase bracket.  She will need to have a TON of individual club soccer accolades (ODP, PDP, ID2 and/or YNT pool) to attract college coaches, her team probably won't do it on it's own.  If she doesn't have those accolades and she a rising 2001 HS Jr.  The Power 5 and top mid-major programs have for the most part already identified or commtited the players in your DD's class.  Depending on the schools your DD emailed, if they did not show....you should consider revaluating whoch school's she is targetting. 

Example: if your DD's top 10 includes the likes of CAL, USC, UCLA type schools....it might be time to form a new top 10 with mid-lower D1, D2 and D3 schools such as UC Davis, USD, Cal State Fullerton, Claremont Colleges, etc.


----------



## turftoe9

Just saw they updated the U14 semi's tomorrow. 
Replaced Surf with the team from Florida.


----------



## Kongzilla

Yeah ECNL made a mistake Jay FC is now I. The Semis


----------



## packmule

How can Jay FC be the winner of bracket play when Surf's DF is 2+ and Jay FC is Zero? From any other tournament play, a team with a positive goal Dif should be the top team.


----------



## packmule

packmule said:


> How can Jay FC be the winner of bracket play when Surf's DF is 2+ and Jay FC is Zero? From any other tournament play, a team with a positive goal Dif should be the top team.
> 
> View attachment 1106


OK, I answered my own questions. Here is the ECNL ruling 

3.17.3 ECNL Playoff Standings - Advancement: If two teams are tied within their group at the ECNL Playoffs, the tie-breaker will be as follows: 
*-  Total points earned in head to head game (if possible). If more than two teams are tied, this tie-breaker shall not apply. *
-  Goal Difference (based on group play);
-  Goals For (based on group play); 
-  Goals Against (based on group play); 
-  Penalties: If it is still tied, the winner shall be determined by kicks from the mark. The winner shall then be the ECNL Team that scores the most in five (5) kicks from the mark. If the teams remain tied after five (5) kicks, the winner shall be determined by sudden death in rounds of one (1) kick per team. ​


----------



## LadiesMan217

All 2001 SoCal teams out. Out coached. Spanked by girls trained to play the game. It wasn't funny. Things need to change. Fast girls are good but knowledgeable girls are better.... Blues did well but Crossfire Premier out did them. Florida outplayed Blues IMO. Crossfire, Top Hat, FC Stars and FC Dallas - they are obviously teaching those girls the game and not shooting the ball at a goalie or scrimmaging while the coaches talk all practice.


----------



## GoWest

LadiesMan217 said:


> All 2001 SoCal teams out. Out coached. Spanked by girls trained to play the game. It wasn't funny. Things need to change. Fast girls are good but knowledgeable girls are better.... Blues did well but Crossfire Premier out did them. Florida outplayed Blues IMO. Crossfire, Top Hat, FC Stars and FC Dallas - they are obviously teaching those girls the game and not shooting the ball at a goalie or scrimmaging while the coaches talk all practice.


Always a thing or two to learn along the way, right?!

dislike the TGS ECNL website. Not user friendly. I was pleasantly surprised to experience the TGS ECNL playoffs site to be quite the opposite. Very user friendly.

Today remaining in the Champions League hunt for an ECNL National Championship I see Blues, Surf and Slammers (u15); Slammers (u17); and, Surf (u18) still repping well. Did anyone expect Blues u16's demise in Chicago? I for one did not.


----------



## LadiesMan217

GoWest said:


> Always a thing or two to learn along the way, right?!
> 
> dislike the TGS ECNL website. Not user friendly. I was pleasantly surprised to experience the TGS ECNL playoffs site to be quite the opposite. Very user friendly.
> 
> Today remaining in the Champions League hunt for an ECNL National Championship I see Blues, Surf and Slammers (u15); Slammers (u17); and, Surf (u18) still repping well. Did anyone expect Blues u16's demise in Chicago? I for one did not.


I did not expect the demise until tomorrow or in San Diego. They had a lot of trouble in their last 2 games. It was nice to see teams that can force Blues into possession-like game. Blues girls impressed me with some of the possession game but the other teams looked so much better. The way these girls are taught in SoCal I would expect a U15 or even a u8 team to do well. As they get older that stuff won't work. 2 teams from SoCal representing u16/u17/u18 tells the story. U17 Slammers girls is an anomaly also - they do not need a coach - good set of girls.


----------



## MakeAPlay

LadiesMan217 said:


> All 2001 SoCal teams out. Out coached. Spanked by girls trained to play the game. It wasn't funny. Things need to change. Fast girls are good but knowledgeable girls are better.... Blues did well but Crossfire Premier out did them. Florida outplayed Blues IMO. Crossfire, Top Hat, FC Stars and FC Dallas - they are obviously teaching those girls the game and not shooting the ball at a goalie or scrimmaging while the coaches talk all practice.


Dang @LadiesMan217 tell us how you really feel.  I have been saying for a long time that playing nationally opens peoples eyes to what is out there.  When I hear people saying that SoCal teams don't need to play out of state sides I just shake my head and realize that the person is probably a ULittle parent.


----------



## Striker17

I watched some clips this week and was not impressed with our "star teams" I really like solar chelsea from Texas!!


----------



## LadiesMan217

MakeAPlay said:


> Dang @LadiesMan217 tell us how you really feel.  I have been saying for a long time that playing nationally opens peoples eyes to what is out there.  When I hear people saying that SoCal teams don't need to play out of state sides I just shake my head and realize that the person is probably a ULittle parent.


This is the reason I embrace DA - this is the sole reason. I know you are not sold on it but I have to have something to hope for.


----------



## LadiesMan217

Oh! I forgot. To anyone outside of SoCal that reads these message boards I will represent all of us and apologize for the Blues parents behavior. They get caught up in the game and are actually nice people.


----------



## NoGoal

LadiesMan217 said:


> All 2001 SoCal teams out. Out coached. Spanked by girls trained to play the game. It wasn't funny. Things need to change. Fast girls are good but knowledgeable girls are better.... Blues did well but Crossfire Premier out did them. Florida outplayed Blues IMO. Crossfire, Top Hat, FC Stars and FC Dallas - they are obviously teaching those girls the game and not shooting the ball at a goalie or scrimmaging while the coaches talk all practice.


As posters having been saying, recruiting the athletically big, fast and strong players is great for winning at the younger ages.  Unfortunately,  if the coach doesn't developed them properly, they will be caught.


----------



## NoGoal

LadiesMan217 said:


> Oh! I forgot. To anyone outside of SoCal that reads these message boards I will represent all of us and apologize for the Blues parents behavior. They get caught up in the game and are actually nice people.


Correction more not used to losing.


----------



## MakeAPlay

LadiesMan217 said:


> This is the reason I embrace DA - this is the sole reason. I know you are not sold on it but I have to have something to hope for.


I hate to tell you this but all 3 of the teams that they played are GDA teams too.  So let me ask you this, do you expect something to change with the same coaches, mostly the same kids, playing the same teams from the same clubs?

I hope that it does something transformational to girls soccer in the US but I really think that it is the old cliche of looking busy so that the boss (Sunil) thinks that you are doing so something.  I will believe it when I see it.  With all of the YNT games that I have seen I must say that I don't buy it.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## LadiesMan217

MakeAPlay said:


> I hate to tell you this but all 3 of the teams that they played are GDA teams too.  So let me ask you this, do you expect something to change with the same coaches, mostly the same kids, playing the same teams from the same clubs?
> 
> I hope that it does something transformational to girls soccer in the US but I really think that it is the old cliche of looking busy so that the boss (Sunil) thinks that you are doing so something.  I will believe it when I see it.  With all of the YNT games that I have seen I must say that I don't buy it.  Good luck to you and your player.


I understand but I still hope. Without hope I am done.


----------



## Sombitch

LadiesMan217 said:


> All 2001 SoCal teams out. Out coached. Spanked by girls trained to play the game. It wasn't funny. Things need to change. Fast girls are good but knowledgeable girls are better.... Blues did well but Crossfire Premier out did them. Florida outplayed Blues IMO. Crossfire, Top Hat, FC Stars and FC Dallas - they are obviously teaching those girls the game and not shooting the ball at a goalie or scrimmaging while the coaches talk all practice.


Not sure who you are referring to by getting spanked. 

Blues lost on GD and lost a key scorer along the way.  They were the defending champ so everyone was gunning for them

West coast was not spanked by anyone, they just needed to score some goals. They battled Top Hat and their four USWNT players wire to wire and gave up a questionable foul call late.  Tophat converted for the 1-0 win.  Game was even wire to wire.  WCFC then took three points the following day only to learn moments later they would lose out to TOphat head to head, so today everyone was able to get minutes and played and they took a 0-0 draw. 

Slammers had the hardest draw out of the SoCal teams and drew (IMO) the best team at the age in Concorde in game 1 at 8:00. Concorde has three USWNT players and arguably one of the best at the age in the line up.  I think slammers will tell you they are the real deal.  

Lastly Real.  Ok they took a 4-0 loss to the stars.  Again, a great opponent with a few national teamers. Maybe this is what you are referring to as a blowout?


----------



## Sombitch

GoWest said:


> Always a thing or two to learn along the way, right?!
> 
> dislike the TGS ECNL website. Not user friendly. I was pleasantly surprised to experience the TGS ECNL playoffs site to be quite the opposite. Very user friendly.
> 
> Today remaining in the Champions League hunt for an ECNL National Championship I see Blues, Surf and Slammers (u15); Slammers (u17); and, Surf (u18) still repping well. Did anyone expect Blues u16's demise in Chicago? I for one did not.


Yes I saw that coming and stated it earlier in the thread.  I said Tophat and Concorde or Stars might be the ones to beat them


----------



## LadiesMan217

Sombitch said:


> Not sure who you are referring to by getting spanked.
> 
> Blues lost on GD and lost a key scorer along the way.  They were the defending champ so everyone was gunning for them
> 
> West coast was not spanked by anyone, they just needed to score some goals. They battled Top Hat and their four USWNT players wire to wire and gave up a questionable foul call late.  Tophat converted for the 1-0 win.  Game was even wire to wire.  WCFC then took three points the following day only to learn moments later they would lose out to TOphat head to head, so today everyone was able to get minutes and played and they took a 0-0 draw.
> 
> Slammers had the hardest draw out of the SoCal teams and drew (IMO) the best team at the age in Concorde in game 1 at 8:00. Concorde has three USWNT players and arguably one of the best at the age in the line up.  I think slammers will tell you they are the real deal.
> 
> Lastly Real.  Ok they took a 4-0 loss to the stars.  Again, a great opponent with a few national teamers. Maybe this is what you are referring to as a blowout?


No blowouts, just a SoCal spanking.


----------



## NoGoal

LadiesMan217 said:


> No blowouts, just a SoCal spanking.


Yup, soccer is a fickle game.  A team could be dominating the game and lose on a counter attacking play 0-1.  Vice Versa a team dominating an opponent and only winning 1-0 or ending up in a tie.


----------



## meatsweats

LadiesMan217 said:


> Oh! I forgot. To anyone outside of SoCal that reads these message boards I will represent all of us and apologize for the Blues parents behavior. They get caught up in the game and are actually nice people.


To what are you referring. Inquiring minds would like to know. I heard of an incident and it didn't sound like it was instigated by Blues parents.


----------



## Justafan

NoGoal said:


> Correction more not used to losing.


Easily the most enjoyable guilty pleasure I will admit to is watching the parents of the favored teams start to squirm, complain, and yell when things aren't going their way.  

Yes, they are usually nice cause their usually winning.


----------



## Soccer43

Justafan said:


> Easily the most enjoyable guilty pleasure I will admit to is watching the parents of the favored teams start to squirm, complain, and yell when things aren't going their way.
> 
> Yes, they are usually nice cause their usually winning.


not so sure I would say they are nice, even when they are winning-(on certain teams with a particular coach)


----------



## Kongzilla

Solar Chelsea is the real deal - a legit #1 team in ECNL
BIG, Fast, Strong w skill to move the ball - all great shooters 

Most teams have 1 or 2 studs this team has 5-6 amazing to watch those DD's play 

I would be surprised if they don't win it All


----------



## Striker17

They do very well- lots of talent - game is being streamed live now and the midfielders are my favorite to watch- totally different style than the Blues for example


----------



## Kongzilla

Ahhh man their midfielders killed us they shoot from everywhere - awesome to watch


----------



## outside!

LadiesMan217 said:


> Oh! I forgot. To anyone outside of SoCal that reads these message boards I will represent all of us and apologize for the Blues parents behavior. They get caught up in the game and are actually nice people.


I wish this were not a pattern.


----------



## Kongzilla

Not a pattern? Please expand your pontification?


----------



## Kongzilla

Crazy families on the sideline embarrassing themselves?


----------



## PLSAP

Striker17 said:


> They do very well- lots of talent - game is being streamed live now and the midfielders are my favorite to watch- totally different style than the Blues for example


Link??


----------



## NoGoal

I watched about 10 minutes of the U14 Championship streamed game.  Both teams play direct.


----------



## NoGoal

PLSAP said:


> Link??


https://boxcast.tv/view/u14-ecnl-final---eclipse-select-03-g-vs-solar-chelsea-03-g-905764


----------



## PLSAP

NoGoal said:


> https://boxcast.tv/view/u14-ecnl-final---eclipse-select-03-g-vs-solar-chelsea-03-g-905764


Thank you!!!


----------



## Striker17

Not arguing about style of play today with people who go back and forth all day . SC nice style of play they just happen to have a killer forward. Notice who sets it up- I may be biased of course


----------



## Striker17

Anyone want to say OP plays direct take a look at how she dismantled the Blues in last years final at Nat. TB looks like she plays direct but she doesn't- Blues game from last year and exceptional one to watch just how skillfully those two are. TB is a beast and I hate using that term but it's true. 
Well deserved win- good soccer on display.


----------



## NoGoal

Striker17 said:


> Not arguing about style of play today with people who go back and forth all day . SC nice style of play they just happen to have a killer forward. Notice who sets it up- I may be biased of course


I didn't post they play kick and run.  I posted direct, that's all.


----------



## NoGoal

Striker17 said:


> Anyone want to say OP plays direct take a look at how she dismantled the Blues in last years final at Nat. TB looks like she plays direct but she doesn't- Blues game from last year and exceptional one to watch just how skillfully those two are. TB is a beast and I hate using that term but it's true.
> Well deserved win- good soccer on display.


Don't mistaken direct with kick and run.

Luca Modric from Real Madrid is a technical player on a direct team, but has the ability to play possession.


----------



## Striker17

True I agree and sorry I jumped the Gun- people always make the next leap of direct being kick ball and it annoys me. I think the Blues are phenomenal at ball winning and pressing- something that a lot of teams lack- and so when you can see people who can break that down it is fun to watch.


----------



## NoGoal

Striker17 said:


> True I agree and sorry I jumped the Gun- people always make the next leap of direct being kick ball and it annoys me. I think the Blues are phenomenal at ball winning and pressing- something that a lot of teams lack- and so when you can see people who can break that down it is fun to watch.


No worries and I agree, as the saying goes....control the midfield control the game.


----------



## Kongzilla

No Goal / No kidding 

Solar super good in the middle amazing to see a team like that - So Cal has some work to do !   Although I do have to say this we are not that far off ... other than Solar our teams did very well against other states ... Nothing to be ashamed of !


----------



## MakeAPlay

Striker17 said:


> Anyone want to say OP plays direct take a look at how she dismantled the Blues in last years final at Nat. TB looks like she plays direct but she doesn't- Blues game from last year and exceptional one to watch just how skillfully those two are. TB is a beast and I hate using that term but it's true.
> Well deserved win- good soccer on display.


I have seen many forwards that are "great" and that get the ball played to them directly that are "great" because they are usually the one of the most athletic players on the pitch.  Once those players get to college they often come against defenders that are more athletic.  That is when it pays to have a technical foundation.  If you just rely on speed that comes to an end at the high D1 level...


----------



## NoGoal

Kongzilla said:


> No Goal / No kidding
> 
> Solar super good in the middle amazing to see a team like that - So Cal has some work to do !   Although I do have to say this we are not that far off ... other than Solar our teams did very well against other states ... Nothing to be ashamed of !


Yup, I agree there are quality teams and or players outside of SoCal.


----------



## Kongzilla

FYI some insight / rumor on Solar Chelsea

- That team has 10 new players handpicked from other clubs (Coming from one of the Solar parents) they have stacked team

 Essentially Solar had an all star team - Now I can not confirm nor deny this .....but .....it makes sense why they were so dominant - no excuses here  they deserve to win but if true puts things into perspective


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kongzilla said:


> FYI some insight / rumor on Solar Chelsea
> 
> - That team has 10 new players handpicked from other clubs (Coming from one of the Solar parents) they have stacked team
> 
> Essentially Solar had an all star team - Now I can not confirm nor deny this .....but .....it makes sense why they were so dominant - no excuses here  they deserve to win but if true puts things into perspective


We could do the same thing here if we went from everyone getting GDA to maybe 5-6 teams.  In reality there is only enough elite talent for 2-3 teams but there is plenty of very good players that could fill the other 3-4 teams.


----------



## Kongzilla

MakeAPlay said:


> We could do the same thing here if we went from everyone getting GDA to maybe 5-6 teams.  In reality there is only enough elite talent for 2-3 teams but there is plenty of very good players that could fill the other 3-4 teams.


I agree our Region is so diluted too many teams to many leagues - as a region we don't concentrate our talent --- now with DA and ECNL  this will dilute the Talent pool further ... SMH


----------



## MakeAPlay

I'm watching the replay of the game right now and the first goal by Solar was poor defense on Eclispe's part.  So far I haven't seen anything extraordinary.  It's U14 though so my expectations aren't very high.  They do attempt to connect passes though and both teams are trying to play soccer so far.


----------



## push_up

MakeAPlay said:


> I'm watching the replay of the game right now and the first goal by Solar was poor defense on Eclispe's part.  So far I haven't seen anything extraordinary.  It's U14 though so my expectations aren't very high.  They do attempt to connect passes though and both teams are trying to play soccer so far.


You won't be able to see anything extraordinary because your DD is not playing.


----------



## MakeAPlay

push_up said:


> You won't be able to see anything extraordinary because your DD is not playing.


Wrong.  But don't be a hater.  You sound bitter.  Is reality starting to set in?  Mine has a 3.9 in pre-med and is a baller.  Don't hate the player.  Hate yourself for being a d-bag.


----------



## MakeAPlay

I just saw Eclipse score their first goal.  First of all it was a missed call by the AR.  The ball was near side of the broadcast and was clearly out of bounds.  The goal came on a corner kick.  The defense did a horrible job of clearing the ball.  So far lots of poor defending.  I like that both teams are trying to connect passes for the most part.  A very good sign at the youngest ECNL age.


----------



## MakeAPlay

I just so Solar's second goal.  Long ball cross to the back post.  Nobody home.  The girl had time to receive the pass, settle it, take a touch and put it in the back of the net.  Again piss poor defense.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Kongzilla said:


> I agree our Region is so diluted too many teams to many leagues - as a region we don't concentrate our talent --- now with DA and ECNL  this will dilute the Talent pool further ... SMH


Yes, so much to navigate in the next couple of years, yours is an 03 if I recall.


----------



## MakeAPlay

I believe the coach for the Chicago Red Stars NWSL team is the DOC for Eclipse select.  They do a good job of trying to play out of trouble.


----------



## bababooey

Kongzilla said:


> FYI some insight / rumor on Solar Chelsea
> 
> - That team has 10 new players handpicked from other clubs (Coming from one of the Solar parents) they have stacked team
> 
> Essentially Solar had an all star team - Now I can not confirm nor deny this .....but .....it makes sense why they were so dominant - no excuses here  they deserve to win but if true puts things into perspective


Kong - thank you for your insight. And congrats to your dd's team. The So Cal WC team did better than the two AQ from the SW region.

As for the rumor on Solar Chelsea, isn't this the same exact blueprint for every Blues top team? Now that we have GDA, don't you think Blues, Slammers, Beach and Legends are trying to do it too? There is nothing wrong with trying to form these super teams (hell the NBA is doing it every offseason), but to think that Solar is the only team stacking teams would be myopic.

Thanks again for the insight these past four or five days.


----------



## Kongzilla

Bababooey - Agree ....the era of the Super teams has been here ....but now it's becoming more and more prevelant .... it's apparent that if you want to compete at highest levels in the Club Soccer World you need to build these super teams 

 I'm just concerned that our competing "leagues" platforms dilutes/spreads our talent pool to far .... but maybe not.... So Cal might be big enough!!


----------



## GoWest

Kongzilla said:


> Bababooey - Agree ....the era of the Super teams has been here ....but now it's becoming more and more prevelant .... it's apparent that if you want to compete at highest levels in the Club Soccer World you need to build these super teams
> 
> I'm just concerned that our competing "leagues" platforms dilutes/spreads our talent pool to far .... but maybe not.... So Cal might be big enough!!


Speaking of "super teams" and effort / results congrats to SW conference ECNL Final Four movers u15 Blues and Slammers, u17 Slammers. Wish there were more SoCal participants but I'll take it. Best of luck in July!


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kongzilla said:


> Bababooey - Agree ....the era of the Super teams has been here ....but now it's becoming more and more prevelant .... it's apparent that if you want to compete at highest levels in the Club Soccer World you need to build these super teams
> 
> I'm just concerned that our competing "leagues" platforms dilutes/spreads our talent pool to far .... but maybe not.... So Cal might be big enough!!


There is not enough elite talent in SoCal to fill all of the GDA teams.  It's sad but true.  The rest of the country is in an even tougher situation.  We have 20 million people in the region or about the population of Texas, Florida or New York so the smaller areas with multiple teams will either have one super team and a couple of weak teams or several mediocre teams.


----------



## Striker17

Kongzilla said:


> FYI some insight / rumor on Solar Chelsea
> 
> - That team has 10 new players handpicked from other clubs (Coming from one of the Solar parents) they have stacked team
> 
> Essentially Solar had an all star team - Now I can not confirm nor deny this .....but .....it makes sense why they were so dominant - no excuses here  they deserve to win but if true puts things into perspective


The same three that broke down the Blues last year were still there on full display. OP didnt even play the full game


----------



## Striker17

Kongzilla said:


> Bababooey - Agree ....the era of the Super teams has been here ....but now it's becoming more and more prevelant .... it's apparent that if you want to compete at highest levels in the Club Soccer World you need to build these super teams
> 
> I'm just concerned that our competing "leagues" platforms dilutes/spreads our talent pool to far .... but maybe not.... So Cal might be big enough!!


Meh I am not convinced yet. I think Legends and Slammers will be awesome next year. All the RC girls won't drive to Blues or WCFC like they used to for ECNL. 
I also think the attendance reqs of four days per week training will stop some of the driving. I have seen this in my old club- it's becoming very geographical now.  Super teams work i would say in middle school or close club proximity. Let's see how many 9-10 graders parents and kids want to drive an hour away four days a week when life, academic and boys come into play and they have a DA in their backyard.
We are told time and time again coaches recruit players not teams. Why be on the super team if you are a role player? No thank you


----------



## The Driver

MakeAPlay said:


> We could do the same thing here if we went from everyone getting GDA to maybe 5-6 teams.  In reality there is only enough elite talent for 2-3 teams but there is plenty of very good players that could fill the other 3-4 teams.


It will all clear up MakeAPlay National Clearing House and Porm are yet to come.


----------



## MakeAPlay

I don't understand how Surf U18 with 6 YNT  attacking players including the PAC 12 freshman of the year managed to lose 3-2 in the final.  Either they have a bad coach, a bad defense or a combination of the two!


----------



## LadiesMan217

Striker17 said:


> Meh I am not convinced yet. I think Legends and Slammers will be awesome next year. All the RC girls won't drive to Blues or WCFC like they used to for ECNL.
> I also think the attendance reqs of four days per week training will stop some of the driving. I have seen this in my old club- it's becoming very geographical now.  Super teams work i would say in middle school or close club proximity. Let's see how many 9-10 graders parents and kids want to drive an hour away four days a week when life, academic and boys come into play and they have a DA in their backyard.
> We are told time and time again coaches recruit players not teams. Why be on the super team if you are a role player? No thank you


For 2001's Legends will be a strong GDA contender - based on the information I currently have regarding player movement and GDA team selection I would probably pick them as #1 team at this time.


----------



## Soccer43

MakeAPlay said:


> I don't understand how Surf U18 with 6 YNT  attacking players including the PAC 12 freshman of the year managed to lose 3-2 in the final.  Either they have a bad coach, a bad defense or a combination of the two!


maybe some of US soccer's picks for YNT are not all that great??  Look at the U15 Arsenal team with 4-5 YNT - they barely made it into championships and did not make it out of pool play.


----------



## LadiesMan217

MakeAPlay said:


> I don't understand how Surf U18 with 6 YNT  attacking players including the PAC 12 freshman of the year managed to lose 3-2 in the final.  Either they have a bad coach, a bad defense or a combination of the two!


The YNT players on my DD team are not the best players on the team. The YNT player on her friends team is not the best player on the team. I see a trend here....


----------



## LadiesMan217

Soccer43 said:


> maybe some of US soccer's picks for YNT are not all that great??  Look at the U15 Arsenal team with 4-5 YNT - they barely made it into championships and did not make it out of pool play.


It is not that they are not great - they are not the greatest IMO.


----------



## MakeAPlay

LadiesMan217 said:


> It is not that they are not great - they are not the greatest IMO.


Korniak is by far the best player on the field.  She moves in very sophisticated ways that you can tell the other players aren't used to seeing.  Neither team can possess the ball.  It is a game of bad defending.


----------



## MakeAPlay

LadiesMan217 said:


> The YNT players on my DD team are not the best players on the team. The YNT player on her friends team is not the best player on the team. I see a trend here....


@LadiesMan217  that might be the case but I promise you your daughters team has nothing like these players on it.  

One was PAC 12 freshman of the year and is probably one of the best 3-4 holding mids in college soccer in addition to her YNT accolades.

One was Gatorade player of the year in Nevada and is an all around great player.

One will likely start as a freshman at Stanford and is the all tone leading scorer in ECNL history.

One is a wideback and is on your daughters high school team.  If you don't think she is all thst she won MVP at the Puma showcase and is about the 2nd most dangerous two way player in the 2017 class.

One is also a dangerous two way player that will likely start at $C this year as a freshman.  She is a pretty legit all around athlete.

The other one is playing up a year and played up two years last year.  She was a teammate of my daughters last year and is an offensive talent with a full toolkit.  She is a Stanford commit for 2018 and comes from a soccer family.

Throw shade if you want to but all of those players would start on any club team in the country.  Which begs the question why they didn't win.


----------



## chiefs

Soccer43 said:


> maybe some of US soccer's picks for YNT are not all that great??  Look at the U15 Arsenal team with 4-5 YNT - they barely made it into championships and did not make it out of pool play.


Please watch u17 and u20 YNT and you will understand the poor selections. They were below average and that's saying it nicely.


----------



## LadiesMan217

MakeAPlay said:


> @LadiesMan217  that might be the case but I promise you your daughters team has nothing like these players on it.
> 
> One was PAC 12 freshman of the year and is probably one of the best 3-4 holding mids in college soccer in addition to her YNT accolades.
> 
> One was Gatorade player of the year in Nevada and is an all around great player.
> 
> One will likely start as a freshman at Stanford and is the all tone leading scorer in ECNL history.
> 
> One is a wideback and is on your daughters high school team.  If you don't think she is all thst she won MVP at the Puma showcase and is about the 2nd most dangerous two way player in the 2017 class.
> 
> One is also a dangerous two way player that will likely start at $C this year as a freshman.  She is a pretty legit all around athlete.
> 
> The other one is playing up a year and played up two years last year.  She was a teammate of my daughters last year and is an offensive talent with a full toolkit.  She is a Stanford commit for 2018 and comes from a soccer family.
> 
> Throw shade if you want to but all of those players would start on any club team in the country.  Which begs the question why they didn't win.


Honestly I don't know the u18 players well enough. I can only talk for the u16s. Sorry I made you type all that.


----------



## Sombitch

LadiesMan217 said:


> The YNT players on my DD team are not the best players on the team. The YNT player on her friends team is not the best player on the team. I see a trend here....


I would say the three YNT players on your team with the addition of your other high scoring forward are easily the best players on your team.


----------



## NoGoal

chiefs said:


> Please watch u17 and u20 YNT and you will understand the poor selections. They were below average and that's saying it nicely.


LMAO, below average....huh?

Ashley Sanchez-UCLA, Kiara Pickett-Stanford, and Karina Rodriguez-UCLA are from SoCal and were on the U17 or U20 teams. Obviously, your 2003 DD has NEVER played against or with those girls. My DD has played with and against those girls.....and will continue to do so this Pac12 season.  All 3 of those players are STUDS!


----------



## NoGoal

Sombitch said:


> I would say the three YNT players on your team with the addition of your other high scoring forward are easily the best players on your team.


Did you mean Ladiesman's DD aka the other high scoring forward?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccer43 said:


> maybe some of US soccer's picks for YNT are not all that great??  Look at the U15 Arsenal team with 4-5 YNT - they barely made it into championships and did not make it out of pool play.


I bet at least 3 of them play in the NWSL with as many as all six of the could be pros.  Korniek will be a first rounder.


----------



## NoGoal

NoGoal said:


> LMAO, below average....huh?
> 
> Ashley Sanchez-UCLA, Kiara Pickett-Stanford, and Karina Rodriguez-UCLA are from SoCal and were on the U17 or U20 teams. Obviously, your 2003 DD has NEVER played against or with those girls. My DD has played with and against those girls.....and will continue to do so this Pac12 season.  All 3 of those players are STUDS!


Chiefs, maybe you should consider the poor coaching by BJ Snow and Michelle French instead of blaming the players.  My bad god forbid it's the US Soccer coaches who are also implementing Girls DA.


----------



## NoGoal

MakeAPlay said:


> I bet at least 3 of them play in the NWSL with as many as all six of the could be pros.  Korniek will be a first rounder.


I agree Korniek, Macario and Doyle at minimum will be drafted in the NWSL.


----------



## MakeAPlay

I watched both the U18 and you U14 game.  I would thought that the coaching was better in the U14 game but the players skills were better in the U18 game.  Weird how that worked out.


----------



## Sombitch

NoGoal said:


> Did you mean Ladiesman's DD aka the other high scoring forward?



His DD is one of the YNT I am referring to.  The other high scoring forward is not a national teamer


----------



## NoGoal

Sombitch said:


> His DD is one of the YNT I am referring to.  The other high scoring forward is not a national teamer


Gotcha!


----------



## PLSAP

Soccer43 said:


> maybe some of US soccer's picks for YNT are not all that great??  Look at the U15 Arsenal team with 4-5 YNT - they barely made it into championships and did not make it out of pool play.


1) A player's level is not dictated by the performance of her team.

In the case of the U15's, say all 5 YNT players are on the field. That is just less than half the team. I know one is midfield and one is a forward for sure. Say they have another 2 def. and another mid. BUT say the 2 at defence are wingbacks, or even better say that one is a wingback and one is a center back. That leaves one wingside with a NON YNT player. It may leave a whole left side or right side without a YNT player. Say the play a 4-3-3. I know for a fact their GK isn't a YNT player. So that is 3 on defense who are not YNT memeber and 2 who are. Are those two supposed to fill in and make up for the NonYNTness of the other players, including the GK?? In midfield, say, if it is a 4-3-3, I know that one player is a center mid, probably playing attacking, so you have two other mids, one of which is also on a YNT. What if, and this could be the result of a look over or a risky choice that will increase chemistry between some players or something, but what if the one other mid is on the same side of the wingback, and what if that wingback plays with the other YNT defender on her side? That leaves, so far, the entire left or right side open except for the CAM.

Sorry for the whole mini stimulation, but my point is that one player, or two, or five, cannot carry a whole team. A team is a team for a reason. That does not mean that the player isn't good or should be a YNTer. It just means that she is a teammate.

Also, for a lot of these girls, I believe it is their first full year, or second, together and are having major chemistry issues.


----------



## Real Deal

MakeAPlay said:


> I don't understand how Surf U18 with 6 YNT  attacking players including the PAC 12 freshman of the year managed to lose 3-2 in the final.  Either they have a bad coach, a bad defense or a combination of the two!





Soccer43 said:


> maybe some of US soccer's picks for YNT are not all that great??  Look at the U15 Arsenal team with 4-5 YNT - they barely made it into championships and did not make it out of pool play.


I think they are all most likely great players, but what looks to be the case, at least at the younger ages, is that most of the players on super teams who are considered star players, and those who are chosen for elite opportunities, are basically cut from the same mold.  So, is it possible that, when they are all put together,  it becomes difficult to field a good team since most selected are the same type of player  thrust into different positions on the field?    

It's as though you have a symphony made up of all the best trumpet players in the land... but only one violin and no flutes or tubas... the music doesn't sound too good.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Real Deal said:


> I think they are all most likely great players, but what looks to be the case, at least at the younger ages, is that most of the players on super teams who are considered star players, and those who are chosen for elite opportunities, are basically cut from the same mold.  So, is it possible that, when they are all put together,  it becomes difficult to field a good team since most selected are the same type of player  thrust into different positions on the field?
> 
> It's as though you have a symphony made up of all the best trumpet players in the land... but only one violin and no flutes or tubas... the music doesn't sound too good.



I agree with you.  That is why I wonder about the conductor or this symphony.  My daughter has played with and/or against all of those 6 players and believe me they are all elite.


----------



## MakeAPlay

PLSAP said:


> 1) A player's level is not dictated by the performance of her team.
> 
> In the case of the U15's, say all 5 YNT players are on the field. That is just less than half the team. I know one is midfield and one is a forward for sure. Say they have another 2 def. and another mid. BUT say the 2 at defence are wingbacks, or even better say that one is a wingback and one is a center back. That leaves one wingside with a NON YNT player. It may leave a whole left side or right side without a YNT player. Say the play a 4-3-3. I know for a fact their GK isn't a YNT player. So that is 3 on defense who are not YNT memeber and 2 who are. Are those two supposed to fill in and make up for the NonYNTness of the other players, including the GK?? In midfield, say, if it is a 4-3-3, I know that one player is a center mid, probably playing attacking, so you have two other mids, one of which is also on a YNT. What if, and this could be the result of a look over or a risky choice that will increase chemistry between some players or something, but what if the one other mid is on the same side of the wingback, and what if that wingback plays with the other YNT defender on her side? That leaves, so far, the entire left or right side open except for the CAM.
> 
> Sorry for the whole mini stimulation, but my point is that one player, or two, or five, cannot carry a whole team. A team is a team for a reason. That does not mean that the player isn't good or should be a YNTer. It just means that she is a teammate.
> 
> Also, for a lot of these girls, I believe it is their first full year, or second, together and are having major chemistry issues.


It takes more than a bunch of superstars to make a great team.  I think back to the Lakers when they had Shaq, Kobe, Karl Malone and Gary Payton.  The Pistons with less star power overwhelmed them.


----------



## NoGoal

Real Deal said:


> I think they are all most likely great players, but what looks to be the case, at least at the younger ages, is that most of the players on super teams who are considered star players, and those who are chosen for elite opportunities, are basically cut from the same mold.  So, is it possible that, when they are all put together,  it becomes difficult to field a good team since most selected are the same type of player  thrust into different positions on the field?
> 
> It's as though you have a symphony made up of all the best trumpet players in the land... but only one violin and no flutes or tubas... the music doesn't sound too good.


It all depends on the coaching staff and their ability to have the players understand and play their role on the team.  If they don't buy into the team concept or if the players are in it for themselves...it's going to end badly.


----------



## PLSAP

I really like seeing all of the different views on this. It's really great to see all the knowledge and all of the experiences of the past couple of posters come through in how they see the situation.

Also, it really was a phenomenal comparison @Real Deal that you made


----------



## PLSAP

MakeAPlay said:


> I bet at least 3 of them play in the NWSL with as many as all six of the could be pros.  Korniek will be a first rounder.


Speaking of which, she just was called up to the another U20 camp. Along with other players, Jones and McKeown. Congrats to them!


----------



## NoGoal

PLSAP said:


> Speaking of which, she just was called up to the another U20 camp. Along with other players, Jones and McKeown. Congrats to them!


Those 2 are also great players!


----------



## Sheriff Joe

MakeAPlay said:


> It takes more than a bunch of superstars to make a great team.  I think back to the Lakers when they had Shaq, Kobe, Karl Malone and Gary Payton.  The Pistons with less star power overwhelmed them.


The lakers could have used a little Magic.


----------



## NoGoal

Sheriff Joe said:


> The lakers could have used a little Magic.


Or Chris Paul....Dam you David Stern!


----------



## Sombitch

NoGoal said:


> Or Chris Paul....Dam you David Stern!


Houston will love Chris paul


----------



## MakeAPlay

PLSAP said:


> Speaking of which, she just was called up to the another U20 camp. Along with other players, Jones and McKeown. Congrats to them!


I am surprised that she accepted the invite with camp so close.  The last couple of camps had a bunch of injuries.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Sombitch said:


> Houston will love Chris paul


Don't they have a pretty good PG already?


----------



## Sheriff Joe

I don't know how you could ever beat this, showtime.
Old school. Alley-oop pass from Magic Johnson to Michael Cooper for the dunk. Showtime, suckers.
*Magic Johnson to Michael Cooper fastbreak Alley-oop - YouTube*
▶ 0:28


----------



## MakeAPlay

Sheriff Joe said:


> Don't they have a pretty good PG already?


They traded him and 4 others for CP3.  He is definitely worth the upgrade.  Now Harden can move without the ball and just look for his shot.  This might push Houston past San Antonio.


----------



## NoGoal

Sheriff Joe said:


> Don't they have a pretty good PG already?


Harden can also play SG and since we all know Harden hates defending.  Paul will be taking over the defending duties for Patrick Beverly.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Sheriff Joe said:


> I don't know how you could ever beat this, showtime.
> Old school. Alley-oop pass from Magic Johnson to Michael Cooper for the dunk. Showtime, suckers.
> *Magic Johnson to Michael Cooper fastbreak Alley-oop - YouTube*
> View attachment 1135▶ 0:28


Man I miss the Coopaloop!


----------



## Sheriff Joe

MakeAPlay said:


> Man I miss the Coopaloop!


I was a huge Laker fan in the 80s and coop was my favorite, no one played d like that guy. Quiet, unassuming and the ultimate team player. I miss the character, rivalries and loyalty of the old days.


----------



## GoWest

Sheriff Joe said:


> I was a huge Laker fan in the 80s and coop was my favorite, no one played d like that guy. Quiet, unassuming and the ultimate team player. I miss the character, rivalries and loyalty of the old days.


True! I loved Magic and Kareem but also loved Kobe and Shaq. Really miss Tark the Shark and his Runnin' Rebels too since we're rolling down memory lane.


----------



## NoGoal

Sheriff Joe said:


> I was a huge Laker fan in the 80s and coop was my favorite, no one played d like that guy. Quiet, unassuming and the ultimate team player. I miss the character, rivalries and loyalty of the old days.


I agree Coop was a great defender.  Bruce Bowen was another great 1v1 defender.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

NoGoal said:


> I agree Coop was a great defender.  Bruce Bowen was another great 1v1 defender.


After Magic got sick and quit, I lost my passion for Bball, so anything Bball after 1990 I don't know much about.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Sheriff Joe said:


> After Magic got sick and quit, I lost my passion for Bball, so anything Bball after 1990 I don't know much about.


Bruce Bowen played on those great Spurs teams of the late 90s and early 00s.


----------



## NoGoal

Sheriff Joe said:


> After Magic got sick and quit, I lost my passion for Bball, so anything Bball after 1990 I don't know much about.


If you like the Showtime Lakers.  Watch the GoldenState Warriors play, they are a fun team to watch.  Jerry West was a consultant for the Warriors and advised how to construct that championship team.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

NoGoal said:


> If you like the Showtime Lakers.  Watch the GoldenState Warriors play, they are a fun team to watch.  Jerry West was a consultant for the Warriors and advised how to construct that championship team.


Yes, I have been watching the playoffs since the Warriors have been in the news, what a difference, pulling up for a 3 on a fast break, too funny.


----------



## NoGoal

Sheriff Joe said:


> Yes, I have been watching the playoffs since the Warriors have been in the news, what a difference, pulling up for a 3 on a fast break, too funny.


Yeah, the modern NBA is more about shooting 3's.  I think the reasoning is to spread the floor.  Shooting 3's at a 33% clip or greater (GSW ave. almost 40%) gets the team 99 points vs 2 pt shots at a 50% clip to get 100 points.


----------



## Not From Around Here

Kongzilla said:


> FYI some insight / rumor on Solar Chelsea
> 
> - That team has 10 new players handpicked from other clubs (Coming from one of the Solar parents) they have stacked team
> 
> Essentially Solar had an all star team - Now I can not confirm nor deny this .....but .....it makes sense why they were so dominant - no excuses here  they deserve to win but if true puts things into perspective


Sorry to take this thread back to youth soccer, but I can give you a north Texas perspective on Solar '03.  They have been an all star team for 5+ years (SRSA).  And I don't mean that in a bad way.  They have been the best '03 team in our region since U9 or younger.  Often, when a top player from another team was looking for a change, she would check out Solar.  So it didn't seem like Solar was going to every team and poaching the top players, it seemed like they were always willing to add another top player or two each year.  From the outside (my daughter has never played for them) it made sense to me - top players want to play on the top team and top team wants the top players.

When the '03s reached U12, Solar took a U13 D1 bye in our top league (LHGCL) and gave it to the 03s.  So, the entire team was playing up against the best competition north Texas had to offer (this would be before the 02s hit ECNL).  They came in 3rd place.  The next year they were a U13 team playing up against the U14s and tied for first (granted the ECNL teams were not playing in LHGCL at this point).  During this time, the top 03 team still playing in the 03 age group for LHGCL was another Solar team (Solar Hopkins).  Also during this time, top girls continue to move there when they have the chance.  A local independent team, Cosmos, finished in 4th place in D1 of LHGCL at U12.  Their 3 best players moved to Solar the next season.  Cosmos goalie eventually landed there as well. Again, moves like this didn't seem unnatural to me - these top quality girls had taken Cosmos as high as they could and earned a chance to play for one of the top teams in the country.

Fast forward to the start of U15 - they did get an influx of players, but with age pure (obviously some of the old '03s were now '02s) and the start of ECNL, it did not seem like Lebron going to Miami.  I think 3-5 girls that moved there left Sting Hilton.  The Solar parents mentioned above certainly know more than I do, but again it appeared to be a very natural move for those players.  They were top players, from a top 5 team in the area that were not going to be able to stay with their coach because Hilton was not the ECNL coach.  Sting had 2 top '03 teams Hilton and Gutierrez.  So rather than stay at Sting and play for a coach that I assume they didn't want to play for, they took the opportunity to play for one of the top teams in the country.  

I don't know if any girls from the Solar Hopkins team ended up on the '03 ECNL team, but what I am basically saying in this post is that Solar has been stacked at the 03 age group for years.  Not sure about other parts of the country, but in north Texas, the rich get richer.  Maybe the Texans and FC Dallas have not picked up as many of those top girls looking, but both programs have also benefited from top girls moving to top teams.  I actually think Texans and FC Dallas have closed the gap on Solar '03 some over the past 2-3 years.  But Solar is still the class of our region and congratulations to them for winning the national championship!

And oh yeah, they have two '03 birth year girls that are YNT players that play up with the '02 Solar ECNL team that advanced to the final four (I'm just saying the program is deep!).


----------



## Kongzilla

Not from Around here ... Well I'll be a Sombitch - Great Post! ... Super Insightful


----------



## Not From Around Here

Kongzilla said:


> Not from Around here ... Well I'll be a Sombitch - Great Post! ... Super Insightful


Appreciate that.  

Solar '03 is the gold standard around here in Texas and I feel like a lot of people (that means parents) resent them.  I hate when my daughter's team loses to them, but that just serves as motivation to her and her teammates.

Also, turftoe9 posted a few pages back on this thread. Pretty sure that is a Solar parent that can chime in as well.

Also, also, I believe that 2-4 players from Liverpool Elite '03 have left that team to join Solar '03 DA.  Again, very logical - the best girls from the best non DA team in our region leaving for a better opportunity.  And yes, I think the other two DA programs here got a few LP Elite girls to join as well.


----------



## cowboy

Not From Around Here said:


> Appreciate that.
> 
> Solar '03 is the gold standard around here in Texas and I feel like a lot of people (that means parents) resent them.  I hate when my daughter's team loses to them, but that just serves as motivation to her and her teammates.
> 
> Also, turftoe9 posted a few pages back on this thread. Pretty sure that is a Solar parent that can chime in as well.
> 
> Also, also, I believe that 2-4 players from Liverpool Elite '03 have left that team to join Solar '03 DA.  Again, very logical - the best girls from the best non DA team in our region leaving for a better opportunity.  And yes, I think the other two DA programs here got a few LP Elite girls to join as well.


Good intel, thanks...what will be very interesting with DA and super teams is how long these so called teams will stay together?  With the DA substitution rules, high level players sitting out for an extended period will not make happy players or parents.


----------



## GoWest

cowboy said:


> Good intel, thanks...what will be very interesting with DA and super teams is how long these so called teams will stay together?  With the DA substitution rules, high level players sitting out for an extended period will not make happy players or parents.


Bingo! We stepped back from DA at least for a year to stay ECNL just to see what we see. DD will get a fast if DA though through DP for six games. We felt this was really the perfect situation until a year of DA has gone by to re-evaluate.

Totally agree that twill be quite interesting to see if "super teams" can retain their talent given the subbing rules.


----------



## LadiesMan217

cowboy said:


> Good intel, thanks...what will be very interesting with DA and super teams is how long these so called teams will stay together?  With the DA substitution rules, high level players sitting out for an extended period will not make happy players or parents.


How is that any different than the 3-4 girls that constantly sit on the bench in ECNL right now with a roster of 18?


----------



## NoGoal

LadiesMan217 said:


> How is that any different than the 3-4 girls that constantly sit on the bench in ECNL right now with a roster of 18?


It's different, because not all ECNL teams are super teams.  Not every ECNL coach recruit players like the Bakers did.


----------



## MakeAPlay

NoGoal said:


> It's different, because not all ECNL teams are super teams.  Not every ECNL coach recruit players like the Bakers did.


I would go further and say very few ECNL teams are super teams.  Not to mention there is reentry in an ECNL game so the 17th and 18th player at least get 5-10 minutes.


----------



## Soccer43

It is required that players start a minimum of 25% games.  That may ensure more play time opportunity than current rules where those that sit on the bench never start and maybe only play a brief time in a game without any requirements of play time.


----------



## Not From Around Here

LadiesMan217 said:


> How is that any different than the 3-4 girls that constantly sit on the bench in ECNL right now with a roster of 18?


I know there are some differences in the rules between ECNL and DA, but for the '03s and '04s I don't see much difference between this past year and next year.  In our area, the ECNL players and coaches pretty much moved "up" to DA.  Same teams, new letters.

My questions is, what's happening to the '02s?  What are SoCal clubs doing to accommodate those very talented '02s that will not get a lot of playing time on (or maybe not even make) the '01/'02 DA teams?  How are your clubs combining those 2 ECNL teams into 1 DA team?  Honestly, I am not even sure how the north Texas teams are handling this.


----------



## LadiesMan217

Not From Around Here said:


> I know there are some differences in the rules between ECNL and DA, but for the '03s and '04s I don't see much difference between this past year and next year.  In our area, the ECNL players and coaches pretty much moved "up" to DA.  Same teams, new letters.
> 
> My questions is, what's happening to the '02s?  What are SoCal clubs doing to accommodate those very talented '02s that will not get a lot of playing time on (or maybe not even make) the '01/'02 DA teams?  How are your clubs combining those 2 ECNL teams into 1 DA team?  Honestly, I am not even sure how the north Texas teams are handling this.


Talented 01/02 playing DA, others playing ECNL.


----------



## Not From Around Here

So, are your U17 DA teams a good split of '01s and '02s, or are they mostly '01s?


----------



## Sombitch

Not From Around Here said:


> So, are your U17 DA teams a good split of '01s and '02s, or are they mostly '01s?


Everyone handled it different 

The ones I know with 02

Carlsbad has maybe 2 
Surf I think has zero
West coast has 3
Slammers is pretty heavy 02 not sure if it's 50% but it's more than the others 
Blues has several 02


----------



## PLSAP

Sombitch said:


> Surf I think has zero


I've been wondering for a while if this would even be allowed. Guess this is my answer. It makes sense if you look at anything with age when it comes to soccer. As long as they don't play down, go ahead!


----------



## Soccer43

I would guess that the '02's that are getting the worst deal are those at clubs that no loner have ECNL (like RSC and Eagles).  Many of the '02's at those clubs would have been playing ECNL for a couple of years and now will be on a DA2 team, whatever that will be.  Not sure if they will get great coaching or top competition to play against.  They go from playing at the top level to playing on a 2nd or 3rd level team.  I am guessing that several of those top players may leave to go elsewhere which will make those teams even less competitive.


----------



## chargerfan

Soccer43 said:


> It is required that players start a minimum of 25% games.  That may ensure more play time opportunity than current rules where those that sit on the bench never start and maybe only play a brief time in a game without any requirements of play time.


I know a few boys DA parents who say this is not the case as there are no enforcement of that rule.


----------



## GoWest

LadiesMan217 said:


> Talented 01/02 playing DA, others playing ECNL.


I am relatively certain that you are right for a number of DA teams. I would further that statement with this: Talented players will also be playing ECNL while 'others' play DA.

You will see this starting right here in SoCal with the 02 and 01 Blues teams. They are remaining ECNL at least for another season for a couple reasons but one in particular is to see if US Soccer GDA ends up at least being on par with ECNL. I like ECNL. I think I will like DA. Not hating on it just encourage everyone to pace themselves as we move through the next couple of years during the GDA (and ECNL re-inventing itself) development.

Really should hold off on any "this league better than that league" banter IMO. Still too early to know.


----------

