# Coaches paying for players....not clubs - coaches.



## Soccer (Apr 29, 2018)

I have heard of a few coaches paying dues to the club, for what is perceived as a star player by the coach (not the club).  What are your thoughts? See poll.  

From my experience these parents of these players do not need the help.  They are living through their kids.  These players usually have the best gear are voting to go to Vegas, etc.  Have no loyalty to the club.

In the rare case there is truly that player who needs help.  

There is potential drama that comes with entitling players.


----------



## Bananacorner (Apr 29, 2018)

I know a coach who coached in an affluent area and chose to help pay players dues.  The players came from a nearby low income community, and they played for clubs that were the type where all the kids disappear from the club scene around high school age, and the remaining kids no longer have teams to play with.  The community he coached in was predominantly white/asian, whereas the kids came from an latino commuinty.  The kids were very talented and would not have been able to play club soccer at all anymore without the coaches help (the scholarship monies were already used up for that year).  This coach was by no means wealthy.


----------



## Soccer (Apr 29, 2018)

Bananacorner said:


> I know a coach who coached in an affluent area and chose to help pay players dues.  The players came from a nearby low income community, and they played for clubs that were the type where all the kids disappear from the club scene around high school age, and the remaining kids no longer have teams to play with.  The community he coached in was predominantly white/asian, whereas the kids came from an latino commuinty.  The kids were very talented and would not have been able to play club soccer at all anymore without the coaches help (the scholarship monies were already used up for that year).  This coach was by no means wealthy.


If it was truly done to help the kids then awesome for that coach.  

The instances I have recently heard of are kids have played club soccer for a few years, parents went shopping for the best deal. 

Not about morally helping a kid to obtain a better life, but to fuel a coaches desire to win.  (Ego)


----------



## espola (Apr 29, 2018)

Soccer said:


> I have heard of a few coaches paying dues to the club, for what is perceived as a star player by the coach (not the club).  What are your thoughts? See poll.
> 
> From my experience these parents of these players do not need the help.  They are living through their kids.  These players usually have the best gear are voting to go to Vegas, etc.  Have no loyalty to the club.
> 
> ...


Has anyone made whiny little bitch noises about it?


----------



## Chalklines (Apr 29, 2018)

Kudos for the kid and the family who getting a free ride. 

You also dont know if the coach hasn't been given the green light from the club to do this for recruiting purposes.


----------



## coachrefparent (Apr 29, 2018)

Soccer said:


> I have heard of a few coaches paying dues to the club, for what is perceived as a star player by the coach (not the club).  What are your thoughts? See poll.
> 
> From my experience these parents of these players do not need the help.  They are living through their kids.  These players usually have the best gear are voting to go to Vegas, etc.  Have no loyalty to the club.
> 
> ...





Soccer said:


> If it was truly done to help the kids then awesome for that coach.
> 
> The instances I have recently heard of are kids have played club soccer for a few years, parents went shopping for the best deal.
> 
> Not about morally helping a kid to obtain a better life, but to fuel a coaches desire to win.  (Ego)


I don't understand what you are rally looking for here. I think every human would understand a coach paying for a player that could not afford the dues/tournament fees/uniform cost. We have had kids that we discreetly got outgoing player uniforms for, paid some tournament fees,  or even "sponsored" part of their registration. Only a loser would argue with that. 

Your scenario, and follow up comment seems different. You seem upset that there are clubs/coaches that offer players scholarships/financial aid to get them to come to their clubs because the player is good. This happens all the time, and the parent/player will often gladly accept the next $$$. Is it "good" for youth amateur sports? Of course not. If it is not need based, it is no longer amateur. But I suspect that despite your belief that the player does not need (financial) help, you may be mstistaken.


----------



## Soccer (Apr 29, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> I don't understand what you are rally looking for here. I think every human would understand a coach paying for a player that could not afford the dues/tournament fees/uniform cost. We have had kids that we discreetly got outgoing player uniforms for, paid some tournament fees,  or even "sponsored" part of their registration. Only a loser would argue with that.
> 
> Your scenario, and follow up comment seems different. You seem upset that there are clubs/coaches that offer players scholarships/financial aid to get them to come to their clubs because the player is good. This happens all the time, and the parent/player will often gladly accept the next $$$. Is it "good" for youth amateur sports? Of course not. If it is not need based, it is no longer amateur. But I suspect that despite your belief that the player does not need (financial) help, you may be mstistaken.


I agree help when needed and warranted it is the right thing to do.  As long as the family is grateful in the same breath. I know many kids we have helped out, who went onto great things. 

The scenario presented to me was the need is not warranted.  Hence my question is it ethical for a coach to sabotage fairness for perceived wins.  I have older kids, never heard of this in our years.  The club always provided the support on dues and the parents on the team chipped in for team fees etc. and in all cases the parents were extremely grateful.  This scenario was a younger team, which I found odd. For fact he knows the club is not involved.  I advised this dad to leave.  Not worth it, it’s club soccer nothing more then a youth sport, if not ethical then run.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Apr 30, 2018)

Soccer said:


> This scenario was a younger team, which I found odd. For fact he knows the club is not involved.  I advised this dad to leave.  Not worth it, it’s club soccer nothing more then a youth sport, if not ethical then run.


My kid is on a team that the coach and parents are aware of the help and we are ok with this.  The kids come from a low income area and paying $3k a year is not possible.     To be honest this is going to happen more often as prices continue to go up.   The scary part is that we might miss on great talent if lower income parents eventually decided that club soccer is too expensive for their kids.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

espola said:


> Has anyone made whiny little bitch noises about it?


Besides you?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> My kid is on a team that the coach and parents are aware of the help and we are ok with this.  The kids come from a low income area and paying $3k a year is not possible.     To be honest this is going to happen more often as prices continue to go up.   The scary part is that we might miss on great talent if lower income parents eventually decided that club soccer is too expensive for their kids.


What is scary about it?
That is what the Mexican and rec leagues are for.


----------



## Soccer (Apr 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> What is scary about it?


Exactly not sure what is scary about it.  I know you were asking Soccerfan4life. 

Then it should be up to the club to help players truly in need. Not a coach who is trying to inflate his/her ego for wins.  And if parents want to help with teams fees good for the parents.  Club soccer is not a right as well.  There are other ways to help pay for dues as well, Clubs always have ways to work off dues.  Well at least Surf does.  

Not ethical for a coach to due this for a player for wins. Not sure if it is even right not for wins, by a coach.  It makes the coach to invested in one player when you have 15+ on the team.


----------



## timbuck (Apr 30, 2018)

It’s the coach’s  money and he can do what he wants with it.


----------



## timbuck (Apr 30, 2018)

It’s the coach’s money and he can do what he wants with it.


----------



## espola (Apr 30, 2018)

Soccer said:


> Exactly not sure what is scary about it.  I know you were asking Soccerfan4life.
> 
> Then it should be up to the club to help players truly in need. Not a coach who is trying to inflate his/her ego for wins.  And if parents want to help with teams fees good for the parents.  Club soccer is not a right as well.  There are other ways to help pay for dues as well, Clubs always have ways to work off dues.  Well at least Surf does.
> 
> Not ethical for a coach to due this for a player for wins. Not sure if it is even right not for wins, by a coach.  It makes the coach to invested in one player when you have 15+ on the team.


Nonsense.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

timbuck said:


> It’s the coach’s  money and he can do what he wants with it.


I haven't been this situation, but I know if I was paying and the coach was paying for another kid and that kid started in front of mine that would be a problem.
Many coaches egos are off the chart.


----------



## timbuck (Apr 30, 2018)

How would someone find out if a coach is paying for a kid to play?
That must be a fun sideline to be on.  Everyone talking about other kids behind each other’s backs until someone finally says “I heard coach Juergen is paying for Tyler to play this year. I don’t even think he is THAT good. Why am I paying $3k a year for that Tyler kid to play the “good” positions?”


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

timbuck said:


> How would someone find out if a coach is paying for a kid to play?
> That must be a fun sideline to be on.  Everyone talking about other kids behind each other’s backs until someone finally says “I heard coach Juergen is paying for Tyler to play this year. I don’t even think he is THAT good. Why am I paying $3k a year for that Tyler kid to play the “good” positions?”


Managers like to talk, that is one way, the parents of the player is another. I agree, let the coach do what he likes with his own money, at his own peril.
I told our manager if they are paying for any players don't let me know.


----------



## espola (Apr 30, 2018)

espola said:


> Has anyone made whiny little bitch noises about it?





Sheriff Joe said:


> I haven't been this situation, but I know if I was paying and the coach was paying for another kid and that kid started in front of mine that would be a problem.
> Many coaches egos are off the chart.


Q.E.D.


----------



## GoWest (Apr 30, 2018)

timbuck said:


> It’s the coach’s money and he can do what he wants with it.


I see your point and I would encourage that coach to funnel that money into the clubs "official scholarship" process to help avoid any possible digression issues.


----------



## espola (Apr 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> What is scary about it?
> That is what the Mexican and rec leagues are for.


"Are there no prisons?"

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/A_Christmas_Carol


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

espola said:


> Q.E.D.


F.U.


----------



## Chalklines (Apr 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> I haven't been this situation, but I know if I was paying and the coach was paying for another kid and that kid started in front of mine that would be a problem.
> Many coaches egos are off the chart.


How about the parents ego? 

If the kids better then yours, they deserve to start regardless of where the moneys coming from.


----------



## Fact (Apr 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> I haven't been this situation, but I know if I was paying and the coach was paying for another kid and that kid started in front of mine that would be a problem.
> Many coaches egos are off the chart.


Not to stir the pot, but how do families at your club feel when girls  from Texas fly in for Surf Cup?  I asume if this has stopped happening, you’ve heard about it.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

Chalklines said:


> How about the parents ego?
> 
> If the kids better then yours, they deserve to start regardless of where the moneys coming from.


Bullshit.


----------



## Fact (Apr 30, 2018)

timbuck said:


> How would someone find out if a coach is paying for a kid to play?
> That must be a fun sideline to be on.  Everyone talking about other kids behind each other’s backs until someone finally says “I heard coach Juergen is paying for Tyler to play this year. I don’t even think he is THAT good. Why am I paying $3k a year for that Tyler kid to play the “good” positions?”


From the manager who often only volunteers so they can be in the know about at the gossip.


----------



## Fact (Apr 30, 2018)

Chalklines said:


> How about the parents ego?
> 
> If the kids better then yours, they deserve to start regardless of where the moneys coming from.


Depends on the age. Ulittles thsi should never happen unless the team needs bodies. And when this does happen you can always show your dissatisfaction by leaving the club. The problem is at the big clubs parents are stuck on their ego and as long as they can say that their kid is on a top team that is good enough for them.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

Fact said:


> Not to stir the pot, but how do families at your club feel when girls  from Texas fly in for Surf Cup?  I asume if this has stopped happening, you’ve heard about it.


I think it is horrible, you have a girl that is playing all year with the team and then you fly another kid in a couple times a year to take her spot?
We did have that happen on out team, a girl from another country was on our team and them moved back to her country and them would come back and play is some tournaments, then wanted the team to pay for the player and her family to travel out of state to play. Didn't happen and the parents were not very happy with the in and out bit.


----------



## Chalklines (Apr 30, 2018)

If it takes a free carrot to pull a great player away from another club, who cares......but obviously from some of these knee jerk reactions the family better make sure to keep it confidential.

Do some of you bitch when the team manager gets a discount?


----------



## timbuck (Apr 30, 2018)

What about “package” deals?  
When 3 good friends want to move to a team together.  One of them is a star. The other is ok. But the 3rd player should really find a different activity. 
But they’re all paying full price. So the coach gets a star and another $9,000 into the budget.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

Chalklines said:


> If it takes a free carrot to pull a great player away from another club, who cares......but obviously from some of these knee jerk reactions the family better make sure to keep it confidential.
> 
> Do some of you bitch when the team manager gets a discount?


I am all for the team manager getting free dues.
When you start giving out free dues it becomes more about the club and the coach and not the paying players' development.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

timbuck said:


> What about “package” deals?
> When 3 good friends want to move to a team together.  One of them is a star. The other is ok. But the 3rd player should really find a different activity.
> But they’re all paying full price. So the coach gets a star and another $9,000 into the budget.


We all know coaches and clubs take players to help with the budget, that's partially on the parents though, parents almost always think their player is better than they are, but a coach taking them and not letting them know they might not get much playing time is just as much at fault.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Apr 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> What is scary about it?
> That is what the Mexican and rec leagues are for.


Right, Hispanic leagues have amazing players that will continue to stay there because they cannot afford club soccer as prices continue to rise.  Personally, I know of several families that make good money and are walking away from club sports (not just soccer) because prices are getting out of control.  That's what's scary about this trend. 

Our pool of talented kids will continue to shrink and our quality for the national teams will get worse.   I don't know how many families can afford two kids in club soccer $6k a year or $500 a month plus travel cost.


----------



## timbuck (Apr 30, 2018)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Right, Hispanic leagues have amazing players that will continue to stay there because they cannot afford club soccer as prices continue to rise.  Personally, I know of several families that make good money and are walking away from club sports (not just soccer) because prices are getting out of control.  That's what's scary about this trend.
> 
> Our pool of talented kids will continue to shrink and our quality for the national teams will get worse.   I don't know how many families can afford two kids in club soccer $6k a year or $500 a month plus travel cost.


Right?  Think about kids that actually want to play multiple club sports?  And then if there are siblings.  In other parts of the country, that's a mortgage payment.  Or put your kid in a private school instead of paying for club sports.
We have a few that play club volleyball and club soccer.  They were just in Vegas this weekend for a volleyball tournament.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Right?  Think about kids that actually want to play multiple club sports?  And then if there are siblings.  In other parts of the country, that's a mortgage payment.  Or put your kid in a private school instead of paying for club sports.
> We have a few that play club volleyball and club soccer.  They were just in Vegas this weekend for a volleyball tournament.


Hope they won.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Right, Hispanic leagues have amazing players that will continue to stay there because they cannot afford club soccer as prices continue to rise.  Personally, I know of several families that make good money and are walking away from club sports (not just soccer) because prices are getting out of control.  That's what's scary about this trend.
> 
> Our pool of talented kids will continue to shrink and our quality for the national teams will get worse.   I don't know how many families can afford two kids in club soccer $6k a year or $500 a month plus travel cost.


Don't some or most of the Hispanic kids that make to the national teams do it in their country of origin?


----------



## Grace T. (Apr 30, 2018)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Right, Hispanic leagues have amazing players that will continue to stay there because they cannot afford club soccer as prices continue to rise.  Personally, I know of several families that make good money and are walking away from club sports (not just soccer) because prices are getting out of control.  That's what's scary about this trend.
> 
> Our pool of talented kids will continue to shrink and our quality for the national teams will get worse.   I don't know how many families can afford two kids in club soccer $6k a year or $500 a month plus travel cost.


I agree that cost is a problem for accessibility for working class families, particularly at the higher levels of club soccer, but the problem of cost is also overstated.  There are plenty of club teams prospering in working class Hispanic neighborhoods.  There are lots of smaller clubs out there in the $1000-1500 range (they don't do a ton of tournaments, and they don't do a ton of travel, but they play).  And then now there is the AYSO United option.  There are also scholarships available out there for kids with talent.  Not saying it's not a barrier to entry...but transport is actually a bigger barrier than the fee is.


----------



## 46n2 (Apr 30, 2018)

Club gives the coach the green light, go for it.  Id be excited if my kid (me) got alittle help financially.
Your fee's are not anything I should be concerned with.
See #2.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Apr 30, 2018)

Grace T. said:


> I agree that cost is a problem for accessibility for working class families, particularly at the higher levels of club soccer, but the problem of cost is also overstated.  And then now there is the AYSO United option.  There are also scholarships available out there for kids with talent.  Not saying it's not a barrier to entry...but transport is actually a bigger barrier than the fee is.


You are right on! Yes that's the other issue.  Some of the kids in our team couldn't stay with their Academy Team due to transportation issues.  We are always giving these kids rides to tournaments or even practices because their parents are working on the weekends.     A few of us are trying to help raise funds to do some college showcases so these kids have a chance to play in front of college scouts.   And that's another money making stream, college showcase fees are very expensive for teams that cannot afford it.


----------



## coachsamy (Apr 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Don't some or most of the Hispanic kids that make to the national teams do it in their country of origin?


Negative! Look at Joe Corona, Agudelo, Greg Garza, Michael Orozco, Alejandro Bedoya, Omar Gonzalez and Paul Arriola. Only the kid that plays in Monterey has been the only one in recent memory that chose Mexico over the US and that has to do with USMNT not qualifying for the WC. 

I don't know where do you get your facts to make such a comment??


----------



## coachsamy (Apr 30, 2018)

A coach paying for the dues of a player (Regardless of talent and/or socioeconomical background) is a complete recipe for disaster for the team. And like many people have mention in this thread these are the club hoppers without any kind of loyalty to no one.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> Negative! Look at Joe Corona, Agudelo, Greg Garza, Michael Orozco, Alejandro Bedoya, Omar Gonzalez and Paul Arriola. Only the kid that plays in Monterey has been the only one in recent memory that chose Mexico over the US and that has to do with USMNT not qualifying for the WC.
> 
> I don't know where do you get your facts to make such a comment??


Do you know what this means"?" ?


----------



## coachsamy (Apr 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Do you know what this means"?" ?


Enlight me please!


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> Enlight me please!


I asked a question and as far as I know questions are not facts.


----------



## coachsamy (Apr 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> I asked a question and as far as I know questions are not facts.


Oops. Misread your question as a comment.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> Oops. Misread your question as a comment.


No problem, just remember one thing, for every bad call that has gone against you a bad call has gone in your favor.


----------



## Not_that_Serious (Apr 30, 2018)

How would anyone know? The coach could hand the parents a check to pay for the fees. Its all online now anyway. The coach could sponsor players as any other parent could sponsor other kids. He could pay the club the fees directly to the treasurer as well. 

Coaches tell the Director or whomever they have handling financial aid about Player A needing assistance. The coach could donate scholarship money. Said players would be covered by the coaches money or anyone else who donated money. Coaches money would go to someone else and another persons money would cover Player A, but in the end its all the same pool of money. 

Parents getting upset because the other kid didnt pay out of his parent's pocket is absurd. If a person found a lotto ticket worth $2500 or a bag with $2500 and used it pay club fees - would it be wrong to the same person who has issues of a club/coach/other parent paying for a kid's fees?  Unfortunately I hear the complaints often. I will say the time parents should be pissed about it is if parents  are shopping kids around to clubs, kids dont show up to practice or have an entitled attitude. I've only run across a few kids who people had a legit gripe to be mad about - these kids had an outside Handler shopping them to teams. Real dangerous people out their selling kids and parents dreams they cant fulfill. Not the kids fault USUALLY.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> How would anyone know? The coach could hand the parents a check to pay for the fees. Its all online now anyway. The coach could sponsor players as any other parent could sponsor other kids. He could pay the club the fees directly to the treasurer as well.
> 
> Coaches tell the Director or whomever they have handling financial aid about Player A needing assistance. The coach could donate scholarship money. Said players would be covered by the coaches money or anyone else who donated money. Coaches money would go to someone else and another persons money would cover Player A, but in the end its all the same pool of money.
> 
> Parents getting upset because the other kid didnt pay out of his parent's pocket is absurd. If a person found a lotto ticket worth $2500 or a bag with $2500 and used it pay club fees - would it be wrong to the same person who has issues of a club/coach/other parent paying for a kid's fees?  Unfortunately I hear the complaints often. I will say the time parents should be pissed about it is if parents  are shopping kids around to clubs, kids dont show up to practice or have an entitled attitude. I've only run across a few kids who people had a legit gripe to be mad about - these kids had an outside Handler shopping them to teams. Real dangerous people out their selling kids and parents dreams they cant fulfill. Not the kids fault USUALLY.


I overheard a manager giving his speech at a team beating, he told his parents "we have 2 scholarship kids so we have to make up that money somehow". I think word could easily get around, at least at our club.
How would the conversation go?
[Parent]
I really want my kid to play on your team, but I can't afford it.
[coach]
No problem you kid is really good and I will pay for it myself, but don't tell anyone.


----------



## Not_that_Serious (Apr 30, 2018)

Chalklines said:


> How about the parents ego?
> 
> If the kids better then yours, they deserve to start regardless of where the moneys coming from.


yep thats the gripe. i hear it all the time. People ask, "Is Johnny on scholarship?". Ill say i dont know even if i do, but will ask them "Why?".  Usually the answer is "My kid doesnt play as much as him". To which i reply "Johnny is better". then its "yeah but" or "im not paying for that". I also find many of these parents donate to their High School sports teams to ensure kids make the team.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> yep thats the gripe. i hear it all the time. People ask, "Is Johnny on scholarship?". Ill say i dont know even if i do, but will ask them "Why?".  Usually the answer is "My kid doesnt play as much as him". To which i reply "Johnny is better". then its "yeah but" or "im not paying for that". I also find many of these parents donate to their High School sports teams to ensure kids make the team.


By donate, do you mean pay the fees or on top of that?
BTW, how did you find out about kids on scholarship?

From your previous post,

How would anyone know? The coach could hand the parents a check to pay for the fees. Its all online now anyway. The coach could sponsor players as any other parent could sponsor other kids. He could pay the club the fees directly to the treasurer as well.


----------



## Not_that_Serious (Apr 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> By donate, do you mean pay the fees or on top of that?
> BTW, how did you find out about kids on scholarship?
> 
> From your previous post,
> ...


I know about scholarships given my position at my kid's club, parents feeling comfortable with me to ask for help and coaches/admins trusting me with information when they need help. There has been a previous discussion about this on here - pretty lengthy one. Some clubs send out spreadsheets showing who owes fees. If at the beginning of a season, the spreadsheet shows a kid has a balance of "$0", then they can deduce the kid was sponsored - given who the kid is and who the parents are. Wont get into morality or if clubs/teams should do that, but that is how many parents on clubs know if a parent is sponsored or not. Most teams/clubs I have dealt with dont do that for a plethora of reasons. 

As far as donations go I have seen, at various clubs, people giving a general donation to cover scholarships. The money is accounted for properly. Nothing stops anyone from donating the money. I've seen people donate anonymously for specific players - most likely family members. I seen families at clubs pay for: classmates fees, kids that go to their church, athletic kids they found in random places (MX leagues, Rec Leagues, Park,etc). I've seen coaches donate back salaries to pay for scholarships  - which is kind of what we are specifically talking about here. I dont know a situation where a coach would really have to tell anyone he is covering fees, unless he wants it to be known.


----------



## Not_that_Serious (Apr 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> I overheard a manager giving his speech at a team beating, he told his parents "we have 2 scholarship kids so we have to make up that money somehow". I think word could easily get around, at least at our club.
> How would the conversation go?
> [Parent]
> I really want my kid to play on your team, but I can't afford it.
> ...


Yeah thats a bad situation. Not the managers place to A) say that and B) looking to make up money anywhere. ALl that should be accounted for in preseason budgeting. Ive detailed some of the convos Ive had and reason why some ask for "help". People lose jobs, family deaths, etc. Ive seen really bad players get help, but I know at other clubs it really is dependent on how good the kid is. Outside of soccer Ive seen coaches give kids actual money to give to take home to take care of problems


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> I know about scholarships given my position at my kid's club, parents feeling comfortable with me to ask for help and coaches/admins trusting me with information when they need help. There has been a previous discussion about this on here - pretty lengthy one. Some clubs send out spreadsheets showing who owes fees. If at the beginning of a season, the spreadsheet shows a kid has a balance of "$0", then they can deduce the kid was sponsored - given who the kid is and who the parents are. Wont get into morality or if clubs/teams should do that, but that is how many parents on clubs know if a parent is sponsored or not. Most teams/clubs I have dealt with dont do that for a plethora of reasons.
> 
> As far as donations go I have seen, at various clubs, people giving a general donation to cover scholarships. The money is accounted for properly. Nothing stops anyone from donating the money. I've seen people donate anonymously for specific players - most likely family members. I seen families at clubs pay for: classmates fees, kids that go to their church, athletic kids they found in random places (MX leagues, Rec Leagues, Park,etc). I've seen coaches donate back salaries to pay for scholarships  - which is kind of what we are specifically talking about here. I dont know a situation where a coach would really have to tell anyone he is covering fees, unless he wants it to be known.


It just rubs me the wrong way, that's all.


----------



## Chalklines (Apr 30, 2018)

Im not a soccer coach at all but I understand the pressure of putting together a winning team for job security.

If it costs me $3k (that im able to write off as a donation) to bring a STUD on board to make sure ill have a job next season that pays $60k,why wouldn't I? 

Coaches and clubs paying for special kids happens *ALL THE TIME* with *ALL* sports at every level.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Yeah thats a bad situation. Not the managers place to A) say that and B) looking to make up money anywhere. ALl that should be accounted for in preseason budgeting. Ive detailed some of the convos Ive had and reason why some ask for "help". People lose jobs, family deaths, etc. Ive seen really bad players get help, but I know at other clubs it really is dependent on how good the kid is. Outside of soccer Ive seen coaches give kids actual money to give to take home to take care of problems


I think if all the parents came come to an agreement to pay for the kid that is one thing, it is another for the club to mandate it, as I have witnessed.
Good stuff.


----------



## Grace T. (Apr 30, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> I dont know a situation where a coach would really have to tell anyone he is covering fees, unless he wants it to be known.


Won't the treasurer at least know if the coach is paying the money directly to the club?  Otherwise won't the coach take a double hit (he'll have to declare the salary as income, and pay taxes on it, but he won't get to write off any donation if it's directly made to the player)?


----------



## Soccer (Apr 30, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Yeah thats a bad situation. Not the managers place to A) say that and B) looking to make up money anywhere. ALl that should be accounted for in preseason budgeting. Ive detailed some of the convos Ive had and reason why some ask for "help". People lose jobs, family deaths, etc. Ive seen really bad players get help, but I know at other clubs it really is dependent on how good the kid is. Outside of soccer Ive seen coaches give kids actual money to give to take home to take care of problems


Yes, but you are talking about truly need based.    Need based is one thing.  For wins and ego is not morally correct or ethical in book.  Shady as all get up.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Apr 30, 2018)

Chalklines said:


> If it takes a free carrot to pull a great player away from another club, who cares......but obviously from some of these knee jerk reactions the family better make sure to keep it confidential.
> 
> Do some of you bitch when the team manager gets a discount?


I don't bitch, and no one should, when a team manager gets a discount.  It is a hard job that takes a lot of time and requires people to put up with a lot of BS.  

As for a coach paying for a kid out of his own pocket: if I am the DOC of the club that would be a no go.  If there is a kid that needs help with dues we can handle that at the club level and it doesn't need to get out to the team/public.  If I have a coach willing to pay out of his own pocket to pull a "stud" onto his team, I would think I need better coach(es).   Who is the kid loyal to, the coach or the club?  I don't want a bunch of cowboys as coaches thinking they can do whatever they want. Work within the guidelines of the club's rules.  Serve the club's purpose and mission statement, do a good job and everything will be fine.    

Anyone the thinks "it's OK for this kid to get special attention because he is a baller" is part of the problem with youth sports.  Creates entitled a$$holes.  At some point these kids will need to be productive members of society, and this approach isn't helping.


----------



## espola (Apr 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> It just rubs me the wrong way, that's all.


Nobody cares, you whiny little bitch.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

espola said:


> Nobody cares, you whiny little bitch.


Then why are you responding?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Apr 30, 2018)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> I
> 
> Anyone the thinks "it's OK for this kid to get special attention because he is a baller" is part of the problem with youth sports.  Creates entitled a$$holes.  At some point these kids will need to be productive members of society, and this approach isn't helping.


Actually the entitlement a$hold is the kid that daddy pays for everything and thinks money can buy them whatever they want and means they can play in any team because daddy is paying big bucks.  "Don't worry daddy will take care of the issue, let me get my checkbook". 

The kid that gets the scholarship  is not an issue, it's the parents that tell the kid that he is the best player in the region is the issue. 
Don't blame the kids for getting a free ride. 

Keep in mind that the scholarship  kid is the one that the coach and team puts pressure to score goals or make the team win.  If he/she doesn't perform the scholarship will go away.


----------



## Dominic (Apr 30, 2018)

My sons *team* was sponsored by one Dad for 8 years.


----------



## CaliKlines (Apr 30, 2018)

Dominic said:


> My sons *team* was sponsored by one Dad for 8 years.


That's because of all of the revenue from his online soccer forum...it also paid for that sweet Bugatti in the driveway. _(You had to know that was coming.)_


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 1, 2018)

Dominic said:


> My sons *team* was sponsored by one Dad for 8 years.


Does he have an O2 daughter?

Kobe also did that for a few years I believe with Black Mamba.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper (May 1, 2018)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Actually the entitlement a$hold is the kid that daddy pays for everything and thinks money can buy them whatever they want and means they can play in any team because daddy is paying big bucks.  "Don't worry daddy will take care of the issue, let me get my checkbook".
> 
> The kid that gets the scholarship  is not an issue, it's the parents that tell the kid that he is the best player in the region is the issue.
> Don't blame the kids for getting a free ride.
> ...


There is more than 1 path for a person to become an a$$.  I am not opposed to kids getting scholarships (although I personally prefer it  be needs based); I just don't think a coach need to be paying for it directly.


----------



## Not_that_Serious (May 1, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> I think if all the parents came come to an agreement to pay for the kid that is one thing, it is another for the club to mandate it, as I have witnessed.
> Good stuff.


Many clubs will just tell coaches not to worry about Player X or if they send a spreadsheet they wont be listed or show player as paid. Clubs dont "mandate", its just taken care of on the financial end - however they manage their books. In many places clubs fund-raise just about all their dues.


----------



## Not_that_Serious (May 1, 2018)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Actually the entitlement a$hold is the kid that daddy pays for everything and thinks money can buy them whatever they want and means they can play in any team because daddy is paying big bucks.  "Don't worry daddy will take care of the issue, let me get my checkbook".
> 
> The kid that gets the scholarship  is not an issue, it's the parents that tell the kid that he is the best player in the region is the issue.
> Don't blame the kids for getting a free ride.
> ...


Entitled kids come from all walks of life. Although, in my experience the entitled attitude kids from wealthy families far outweigh the kids who come from poorer families - at least in the club setting. That falls on parenting or whomever is raising the kid.  95% of the people i know who get some form of help are grateful. Just those 5% are noticeable because the negative ones stick out.


----------



## Eagle33 (May 1, 2018)

FYI many clubs is giving coaches to budget their teams. For example on 11v11 team, normally to make a budget and to get pay, coach must have 14 or 15 fully paid players on the roster. The other 3-4 (or more, since some have 22 players) is up to the coach. Those 3-4 can be paying players and coach may get extra or they don't. On the other hand coach is free to have less than 14-15 players and get less accordingly. 
Either way, why would anyone care what coaches do or don't do? If a coach wants to get less and get that player he/she wants, what's wrong with that?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 1, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Entitled kids come from all walks of life. Although, in my experience the entitled attitude kids from wealthy families far outweigh the kids who come from poorer families - at least in the club setting. That falls on parenting or whomever is raising the kid.  95% of the people i know who get some form of help are grateful. Just those 5% are noticeable because the negative ones stick out.


Entitled kids come from entitled parents.


----------



## Not_that_Serious (May 1, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> FYI many clubs is giving coaches to budget their teams. For example on 11v11 team, normally to make a budget and to get pay, coach must have 14 or 15 fully paid players on the roster. The other 3-4 (or more, since some have 22 players) is up to the coach. Those 3-4 can be paying players and coach may get extra or they don't. On the other hand coach is free to have less than 14-15 players and get less accordingly.
> Either way, why would anyone care what coaches do or don't do? If a coach wants to get less and get that player he/she wants, what's wrong with that?


This. Coaches have budgets - down to budget for equipment.


----------



## Not_that_Serious (May 1, 2018)

Dominic said:


> My sons *team* was sponsored by one Dad for 8 years.


Had a generous couple pay tournaments, ref fees, winter ball, group training - even some other fees for kids. Did it for years as their kid played. I see many do this via the companies they own.


----------



## Soccer (May 1, 2018)

Looks like the consesous is that is OK for need based kids.  Not at all for pay to help win kids.

Thanks for the good back and forth!  

I have another topic that I will start, on another subject to get some more positive dilouge going.


----------



## outside! (May 1, 2018)

I think this should be handled through the club. Having the coach pay could set up a power dynamic that leads to bad things. Club oversight is better.


----------



## espola (May 1, 2018)

Soccer said:


> Looks like the consesous is that is OK for need based kids.  Not at all for pay to help win kids.
> 
> Thanks for the good back and forth!
> 
> I have another topic that I will start, on another subject to get some more positive dilouge going.


"Looks like" to whom?


----------



## ferbert (May 2, 2018)

The Fact that Coaches Pay for Player's fees is a nice gesture, that we all should appreciate. Talented players or low-income families deserve that kind of support. Remember that all soccer clubs are "non-profit organizations", they should have room on their roster for said players without hurting the overall budget. Since they are getting money from outside organizations to cover club expenses or low-income players. That is the main reason of being nonprofit, right? 
There is a fine line in regards supporting players for their success and "false support" to players in pro of the team reputation and therefore, the coach. I personally know a case where not only the 12-year-old player is sponsored, also the dad of said player is getting a monthly fee from the coach, just to retain this player in the team. Some coaches need badly talented players to claim a status in this industry. That is ______ (you put the adjective to describe this.)


----------



## toucan (May 2, 2018)

Chalklines said:


> Im not a soccer coach at all but I understand the pressure of putting together a winning team for job security.
> 
> If it costs me $3k (that im able to write off as a donation) to bring a STUD on board to make sure ill have a job next season that pays $60k,why wouldn't I?


I agree in concept.  In real life, though, I have never heard of a coach who makes $60,000 per year for a single team.  With very rare exceptions, club coaches make somewhere between $600 -$1100 per month per team, if they are paid at all, and most don't get paid for months when the club is dark.  So shelling out $3,000 for a kid means losing between 20% and 50% of that coach's annual pay.  Plus, the $3,000 paid out is not tax deductible.


----------



## Chalklines (May 2, 2018)

toucan said:


> I agree in concept.  In real life, though, I have never heard of a coach who makes $60,000 per year for a single team.  With very rare exceptions, club coaches make somewhere between $600 -$1100 per month per team, if they are paid at all, and most don't get paid for months when the club is dark.  So shelling out $3,000 for a kid means losing between 20% and 50% of that coach's annual pay.  Plus, the $3,000 paid out is not tax deductible.



Coach's at large clubs have multiple teams.
Coaches are also independent contractors.
Most clubs pay their coaches under 1099-MISC. You can write the $3k off as an expense on a schedule C......

Correct me if I'm wrong. I know this is fact out of state. California, maybe different?


----------

