# Academy vs. ECNL



## silverstreak

I would like the true honest opinion of pros and cons for each....... which clubs will prevail...... let's just say I am shopping clubs for my daughters and I want to give them the best possible chance at success. What we are not hearing from our club now is any type of sales pitch on how they will sustain at their particular status right now regarding this topic and where they are headed for the future you would think we'd have a big meeting or something but parents feel like they're in the dark ....Ready ....Set .....Go....!


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## Charlotte's Chauffeur

silverstreak said:


> I would like the true honest opinion of pros and cons for each....... which clubs will prevail...... let's just say I am shopping clubs for my daughters and I want to give them the best possible chance at success. What we are not hearing from our club now is any type of sales pitch on how they will sustain at their particular status right now regarding this topic and where they are headed for the future you would think we'd have a big meeting or something but parents feel like they're in the dark ....Ready ....Set .....Go....!


I would think that if your daughter is a top performer your best option would be to choose a club fielding both Academy and ECNL teams so you have the option of either one at the same club.   I think it will be obvious fairly soon that the top league will be Academy, and you will only choose the lower ECNL league if your daughter has a compelling reason to do so (high school sports, choice of coach, etc.).


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## MakeAPlay

Charlotte's Chauffeur said:


> I would think that if your daughter is a top performer your best option would be to choose a club fielding both Academy and ECNL teams so you have the option of either one at the same club.   I think it will be obvious fairly soon that the top league will be Academy, and you will only choose the lower ECNL league if your daughter has a compelling reason to do so (high school sports, choice of coach, etc.).


It remains to be seen who triumphs.  The parents of the top players will decide who prevails.  I know that if my player had the option she would not be playing DA.  There is no advantage as playing pro is not her career aspiration and she loved playing high school soccer.  I have no dog in this fight.  My player is in college and her former club has DA and ECNL.


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## meatsweats

MakeAPlay said:


> It remains to be seen who triumphs.  The parents of the top players will decide who prevails.  I know that if my player had the option she would not be playing DA.  There is no advantage as playing pro is not her career aspiration and she loved playing high school soccer.  I have no dog in this fight.  My player is in college and her former club has DA and ECNL.


Although I agree with you to some degree, the numbers are large enough, in terms of player pool and clubs accepted, that top players might be forced to play in DA. Most kids on that level want to play with the BEST and against the BEST. Staying in ECNL (to play HS sports, etc.) might be desirable, but will it be practical? That is the big question. I think it would take a large number of top players "choosing" ECNL over DA to make any sort of difference.

Charlotte said it best above, DA will be top dog, then ECNL and so forth. Those that don't make DA, will play ECNL (or tier 1 teams if they are not with an ECNL club).  And yes, there will be DA level players that "choose" ECNL based on compelling or personal reasons. Just like there are players now that could make ECNL teams, but choose to not travel or leave their non ECNL club for various reasons.

As for the top players (especially those in clubs with both ECNL and DA), it will be a personal choice. Still, the fact remains, DA will be considered the 'creme de la creme'.


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## Round

I predict that in 8 years there will be a whole bunch 20 to 26 year olds with a lot of regrets about how much they gave up for what really amounted to very little.


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## MakeAPlay

meatsweats said:


> Although I agree with you to some degree, the numbers are large enough, in terms of player pool and clubs accepted, that top players might be forced to play in DA. Most kids on that level want to play with the BEST and against the BEST. Staying in ECNL (to play HS sports, etc.) might be desirable, but will it be practical? That is the big question. I think it would take a large number of top players "choosing" ECNL over DA to make any sort of difference.
> 
> Charlotte said it best above, DA will be top dog, then ECNL and so forth. Those that don't make DA, will play ECNL (or tier 1 teams if they are not with an ECNL club).  And yes, there will be DA level players that "choose" ECNL based on compelling or personal reasons. Just like there are players now that could make ECNL teams, but choose to not travel or leave their non ECNL club for various reasons.
> 
> As for the top players (especially those in clubs with both ECNL and DA), it will be a personal choice. Still, the fact remains, DA will be considered the 'creme de la creme'.


I won't argue the merits of your point.  With overlapping age groups this is going to be more of a mess than anything.  Sitting the bench is going to be a huge thing and if you don't believe that it is the reason behind the majority of college transfers.  I think that you underestimate how many will sit out.  We are going into the U20 WWC as a serious underdog due to most of the players selected opting to skip it due to US soccer mandates.  These are players that are much closer to being pro players (most of them will be) an they still choose to opt out.  Unfortunately US soccer is disconnected from what would best serve female players and have shown no ability to successfully develop male players either.

I hope it works out.  The first year it will not be the top league as the logistics will undoubtedly will not be worked out by then and all of the committed players on the DA clubs teams will be more focused on getting ready for college and the YNT players for those age groups are for the most part already identified.

I hope it works out.  I will be watching to see how it goes.


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## silverstreak

Round said:


> I predict that in 8 years there will be a whole bunch 20 to 26 year olds with a lot of regrets about how much they gave up for what really amounted to very little.


Very interesting..... do you care to elaborate


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## meatsweats

MakeAPlay said:


> I won't argue the merits of your point.  With overlapping age groups this is going to be more of a mess than anything.  Sitting the bench is going to be a huge thing and if you don't believe that it is the reason behind the majority of college transfers.  I think that you underestimate how many will sit out.....
> 
> The first year it will not be the top league as the logistics will undoubtedly will not be worked out by then and all of the committed players on the DA clubs teams will be more focused on getting ready for college and the YNT players for those age groups are for the most part already identified.


I only disagree with one point. The first year will be an all in situation. There's pressure from many angles and if rumors are true and more clubs are to be added to DA, it really gets to the point that forces a shift from ECNL to DA for top teams and players. However, I think it's the SECOND and following years that might tell us more than 2017, as to whether DA can reign supreme or not. Because you're right, when kids are sitting the bench game after game, things will change quickly!! And we're talking about a LOT of kids getting little to no game time.


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## silverstreak

The situating scenario of sitting the bench came into play a couple times in these conversations I don't understand is that how us Academy will handle things or will ecnl Embrace players and allow them to get more playtime I see some ecnl teams rostering up heavy is that how Academy will play out


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## meatsweats

silverstreak said:


> The situating scenario of sitting the bench came into play a couple times in these conversations I don't understand is that how us Academy will handle things or will ecnl Embrace players and allow them to get more playtime I see some ecnl teams rostering up heavy is that how Academy will play out


In theory, a higher number of players would definitely see more "game" time with ECNL.

DA will feature three combined age groups in the Girls’ Development Academy: Under-14/15, Under-16/17 and Under-18/19. 23 will be rostered for each team. Supposedly divided evenly for each birth year. Of those 23, 18 are rostered for each game. Of those 18, 11 start and 3 are subs, no re-entry. The other 4? Well, they watch and learn, I guess.

ECNL is set by year. U13, 14, 15, 16, etc. There are up to 30 on main roster, 18 rostered for each game. 7 substitutions allowed each half. No re-entry per half.

So, with year breakdown (meaning more teams) and substitution rules, yes, more players get a chance to see more game play in ECNL. BUT, that 18'th kid who is part of the 18 rostered for a game might never see the pitch. This DOES happen and especially in big game situations on ECNL teams. Don't be fooled. All ECNL coaches will tell their players and parents that game time is NOT guaranteed.

By shear numbers....it's easy to see that ECNL promises more "game" time, but DA promises more "development" (translating into training sessions).  It's plain as mud, isn't it?


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## SOCCERMINION

One Question I have is. Will Clubs that have DA and ECNL be able to Dual Card Players on both DA and ECNL . Will we see DA, DA -Reserve, ECNL, ECNL- Reserve.  Seems to me that clubs with DA and ECNL can sell it like, "Well your daughter will play ECNL and be dual carded with the DA team, she will train with the ECNL and periodicaly play for the DA, but next year she will play fulltime on the DA when she ages up next year".
With all the parents driving miles to get there child on a team with the proper Patch or Acronym. Im sure there will be some really great Marketing by the DA and ECNL Clubs to retain and get the talent going forward.


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## meatsweats

SOCCERMINION said:


> One Question I have is. Will Clubs that have DA and ECNL be able to Dual Card Players on both DA and ECNL . Will we see DA, DA -Reserve, ECNL, ECNL- Reserve.  Seems to me that clubs with DA and ECNL can sell it like, "Well your daughter will play ECNL and be dual carded with the DA team, she will train with the ECNL and periodicaly play for the DA, but next year she will play fulltime on the DA when she ages up next year".


Short answer....NO. DA players are not allowed to play in other leagues, sports, high school, etc. It's supposed to be so that play time is regulated and players are properly rested.


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## Round

silverstreak said:


> Very interesting..... do you care to elaborate


Not much to elaborate.

ECNL is tough enough but players can have some life outside of soccer and for some the opportunity to play college may be enough to make it worth it in the end. (not sure this really works out for even half of them)  If you are in an academy program, that's it for you.  No job, not trips with the family or friends, friends are all soccer players, limited exploration of life.  No prom, no community, no team.

Then into college, Div. 1 is really demanding, no job, no study abroad, probably limited major choice, again limited friends, probably no good internship possibilities.  In 4 years it all over, if the player is lucky enough and dedicated enough to play through college.

Then what?  A year later muscle turns to fat and maybe the player wishes she did some of those things she didn't do.  At least she has that quilt her uncle made out of her old championship t-shirts right?


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## meatsweats

I hope you're just trying to be funny Round and you aren't that cynical. While some of what you say is true, my experience has been complete opposite. Two of the most successful and strong women I know, happen to be ex D1 soccer players. One in her 40's and other in her 30's. Both very fit (LOL). One just finished her PhD and the other already has hers and is a C level at a genetics company. They also both RAVE about their college experience and are huge mentors to my DD. Because of them, her sights are set on D1 and is looking forward to the experience and challenges. 

The picture you paint is pretty dreary. Not sure if you have a daughter in college or one that might attend. If you do, be sure you keep your dreary picture covered. And you might want to rethink your use of the word "limited".


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## MR.D

Round said:


> Not much to elaborate.
> 
> ECNL is tough enough but players can have some life outside of soccer and for some the opportunity to play college may be enough to make it worth it in the end. (not sure this really works out for even half of them)  If you are in an academy program, that's it for you.  No job, not trips with the family or friends, friends are all soccer players, limited exploration of life.  No prom, no community, no team.
> 
> Then into college, Div. 1 is really demanding, no job, no study abroad, probably limited major choice, again limited friends, probably no good internship possibilities.  In 4 years it all over, if the player is lucky enough and dedicated enough to play through college.
> 
> Then what?  A year later muscle turns to fat and maybe the player wishes she did some of those things she didn't do.  At least she has that quilt her uncle made out of her old championship t-shirts right?


Wow, way to break it down.  But true.


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## Round

meatsweats said:


> I hope you're just trying to be funny Round and you aren't that cynical. While some of what you say is true, my experience has been complete opposite. Two of the most successful and strong women I know, happen to be ex D1 soccer players. One in her 40's and other in her 30's. Both very fit (LOL). One just finished her PhD and the other already has hers and is a C level at a genetics company. They also both RAVE about their college experience and are huge mentors to my DD. Because of them, her sights are set on D1 and is looking forward to the experience and challenges.
> 
> The picture you paint is pretty dreary. Not sure if you have a daughter in college or one that might attend. If you do, be sure you keep your dreary picture covered. And you might want to rethink your use of the word "limited".


I'm nothing if not that cynical about the drivers of club soccer insanity.  I'm almost done with it and have some fond feelings/memories.  We need to be realistic about opportunity costs.  Academy is just one more step closer to absolute insanity.  I often wonder what if this time, money and effort was spent on something that really mattered.


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## meatsweats

Round said:


> I'm nothing if not that cynical about the drivers of club soccer insanity.  I'm almost done with it and have some fond feelings/memories.  We need to be realistic about opportunity costs.  Academy is just one more step closer to absolute insanity.  I often wonder what if this time, money and effort on something that really mattered.


I get what you're saying. Not sold on Academy myself. But I hate when people bring up the "be realistic about opportunity and costs". Yes, we could all take that $$ and put it in a savings and pay for our DD's edu outright. But not only are there many memories to be had, there are lessons learned, family time spent, life long friendships and mentorships. It's not all bleak. At least I hope for most.

That being said...Club soccer is pretty insane. Not all dreams are realistic. And there are costs involved, time and money wise, that for some, might have been wasted. If that's your case, I'm sorry.  But as crazy as this soccer world is, I'll be sad when the day comes that my weekends are free for the foreseeable future.


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## Round

meatsweats said:


> I get what you're saying. Not sold on Academy myself. But I hate when people bring up the "be realistic about opportunity and costs". Yes, we could all take that $$ and put it in a savings and pay for our DD's edu outright. But not only are there many memories to be had, there are lessons learned, family time spent, life long friendships and mentorships. It's not all bleak. At least I hope for most.
> 
> That being said...Club soccer is pretty insane. Not all dreams are realistic. And there are costs involved, time and money wise, that for some, might have been wasted. If that's your case, I'm sorry.  But as crazy as this soccer world is, I'll be sad when the day comes that my weekends are free for the foreseeable future.


I don't know about wasted, there should be a limit, I  think we have reached it.  Opportunity costs aren't just about money.  There are other memories you never had because you chose to have these.  Your kid could have developed other talents if she didn't choose these, that's all I mean.


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## Swoosh

When young players make their first or second USYNT camp, will the US Soccer staff hint at where to play?  Of course they will.


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## MakeAPlay

Swoosh said:


> When young players make their first or second USYNT camp, will the US Soccer staff hint at where to play?  Of course they will.


Not once has any of the YNT coaches suggested to any of the YNT players that I know where she should play.  I have heard of college coaches suggesting where a player should play but never a YNT coach.  Nice try.  Legends will have to develop their players or recruit them early.


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## Swoosh

MakeAPlay said:


> Not once has any of the YNT coaches suggested to any of the YNT players that I know where she should play.  I have heard of college coaches suggesting where a player should play but never a YNT coach.  Nice try.  Legends will have to develop their players or recruit them early.


You don't think they will explain the environment US Soccer is trying to implement?  Four sessions a week, higher coaching standards, etc.  After all, they are the ones creating the league.  I believe it will be very clear where the top players will be playing.  US Soccer coaches didn't push players to USYSA or ECNL I agree there, but they have skin in the game now.


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## MakeAPlay

meatsweats said:


> In theory, a higher number of players would definitely see more "game" time with ECNL.
> 
> DA will feature three combined age groups in the Girls’ Development Academy: Under-14/15, Under-16/17 and Under-18/19. 23 will be rostered for each team. Supposedly divided evenly for each birth year. Of those 23, 18 are rostered for each game. Of those 18, 11 start and 3 are subs, no re-entry. The other 4? Well, they watch and learn, I guess.
> 
> ECNL is set by year. U13, 14, 15, 16, etc. There are up to 30 on main roster, 18 rostered for each game. 7 substitutions allowed each half. No re-entry per half.
> 
> So, with year breakdown (meaning more teams) and substitution rules, yes, more players get a chance to see more game play in ECNL. BUT, that 18'th kid who is part of the 18 rostered for a game might never see the pitch. This DOES happen and especially in big game situations on ECNL teams. Don't be fooled. All ECNL coaches will tell their players and parents that game time is NOT guaranteed.
> 
> By shear numbers....it's easy to see that ECNL promises more "game" time, but DA promises more "development" (translating into training sessions).  It's plain as mud, isn't it?


Just like anything as a parent we all need to be realistic about our player's ability.  Getting sold by a coach isn't something that we as parents can afford to allow. Young girls are impressionable and need parenting.


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## MakeAPlay

Swoosh said:


> You don't think they will explain the environment US Soccer is trying to implement?  Four sessions a week, higher coaching standards, etc.  After all, they are the ones creating the league.  I believe it will be very clear where the top players will be playing.  US Soccer coaches didn't push players to USYSA or ECNL I agree there, but they have skin in the game now.


There are US soccer coaches that coach ECNL, USYS and high school teams.  I bet that they aren't going to prefer a DA team with a lesser skilled coach (in their opinion)


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## Swoosh

MakeAPlay said:


> There are US soccer coaches that coach ECNL, USYS and high school teams.  I bet that they aren't going to prefer a DA team with a lesser skilled coach (in their opinion)


What are you saying?  April Kater, BJ Snow, April Heinrichs, Marc Carr and Michelle French all coach club?  Those are the US Soccer Coaches I'm referring to.  Not the US Market Training centers.  US Soccer will win this one by a landslide.


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## MakeAPlay

Swoosh said:


> What are you saying?  April Kater, BJ Snow, April Heinrichs, Marc Carr and Michelle French all coach club?  Those are the US Soccer Coaches I'm referring to.  Not the US Market Training centers.


Jen Lawlor (an assistant with the YNT) 
Tricia Tagluaferri (u15 coach)
Damon Nahas

Those are just 3 off the top of my head.


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## Swoosh

MakeAPlay said:


> Jen Lawlor (an assistant with the YNT)
> Tricia Tagluaferri (u15 coach)
> Damon Nahas
> 
> Those are just 3 off the top of my head.


Are you saying they will push players away from the DA? OMG


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## NoGoal

meatsweats said:


> I only disagree with one point. The first year will be an all in situation. There's pressure from many angles and if rumors are true and more clubs are to be added to DA, it really gets to the point that forces a shift from ECNL to DA for top teams and players. However, I think it's the SECOND and following years that might tell us more than 2017, as to whether DA can reign supreme or not. Because you're right, when kids are sitting the bench game after game, things will change quickly!! And we're talking about a LOT of kids getting little to no game time.


Look up Boys DA rosters.  It shows the % of games kids start and play.  The majority of the starts and play time are dominated by 14-15 players.

What parents aren't realizing is that a girl's confidence wanes quickly, if they aren't playing.


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## MakeAPlay

Swoosh said:


> Are you saying they will push players away from the DA? OMG


That is not at all what I am saying.  You said that they would push them to DA.  I disagree and provided reasons why.


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## Swoosh

MakeAPlay said:


> That is not at all what I am saying.  You said that they would push them to DA.  I disagree and provided reasons why.


I think it will be clear where they will need to play in order to earn more call ups.  Not saying I agree with that, but it's the way it is now on the Boys DA.


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## soccermanifesto

MakeAPlay said:


> Not once has any of the YNT coaches suggested to any of the YNT players that I know where she should play.  I have heard of college coaches suggesting where a player should play but never a YNT coach.  Nice try.  Legends will have to develop their players or recruit them early.


I know of at least one YNT coach that made their views known to a player about what they thought of each club and what clubs were better/more helpful to their development.


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## soccermanifesto

Lots of bitterness, cynicism, and regrets in this thread (or maybe just one poster repeating their views over and over.)

Enjoy the ride.  If the ride is not a net positive  for you or your child, do something else. No one is holding a gun to your head and making anyone play club soccer, or pay for ECNL or DA.  

For those that like to compete at a high level, they will compete.  The memories they have are always of the friendships and relationships.  Maybe they'll remember a handful of key games, but its more the people they'll remember.

Soccer is a beautiful sport and its a great way to develop leadership, learn the value of sacrifice, be self-disciplined, embrace teamwork, be focused, and develop a great work ethic.  So you missed some parties along the way, but what did you REALLY miss? 

Those that are fortunate enough to play and start at a D1 school (or any level really) can make up their own minds.  They can either be drinking and partying, or they can go on the road and build great friendships and compete in the sport they love.   Does playing soccer at the college level make you happy?  If so, then you should have no regrets. If it doesn't make you happy, or the sacrifice you have to make doesn't feel worth it, do something else.  If you have an all-encompassing major you'd rather do than meet the demands of college soccer, quit soccer and pursue your major. 

For some young women, starting for UCLA or USC or Stanford or North Carolina or Penn State or Notre Dame is a big deal and the achievement of a dream.  Its a highpoint, possibly THE high point of their life. I'm not discounting it doesn't work out for some, or that priorities and passions change, or that injuries cut someone's journey short, or that some may get screwed over by a coach,  or some just have unrealistic estimates of their talents.   Some may certainly feel they wasted their time in the end about soccer after they graduate.   Its a competitive situation and there are winners and losers and usually the cream rises to the top, but not always. 

At the same time, I've spoken to many college graduates who played at a high level that wouldn't change a thing.    It was the best time of their lives.


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## silverstreak

soccermanifesto said:


> Lots of bitterness, cynicism, and regrets in this thread (or maybe just one poster repeating their views over and over.)
> 
> Enjoy the ride.  If the ride is not a net positive  for you or your child, do something else. No one is holding a gun to your head and making anyone play club soccer, or pay for ECNL or DA.
> 
> For those that like to compete at a high level, they will compete.  The memories they have are always of the friendships and relationships.  Maybe they'll remember a handful of key games, but its more the people they'll remember.
> 
> Soccer is a beautiful sport and its a great way to develop leadership, learn the value of sacrifice, be self-disciplined, embrace teamwork, be focused, and develop a great work ethic.  So you missed some parties along the way, but what did you REALLY miss?
> 
> Those that are fortunate enough to play and start at a D1 school (or any level really) can make up their own minds.  They can either be drinking and partying, or they can go on the road and build great friendships and compete in the sport they love.   Does playing soccer at the college level make you happy?  If so, then you should have no regrets. If it doesn't make you happy, or the sacrifice you have to make doesn't feel worth it, do something else.  If you have an all-encompassing major you'd rather do than meet the demands of college soccer, quit soccer and pursue your major.
> 
> For some young women, starting for UCLA or USC or Stanford or North Carolina or Penn State or Notre Dame is a big deal and the achievement of a dream.  Its a highpoint, possibly THE high point of their life. I'm not discounting it doesn't work out for some, or that priorities and passions change, or that injuries cut someone's journey short, or that some may get screwed over by a coach,  or some just have unrealistic estimates of their talents.   Some may certainly feel they wasted their time in the end about soccer after they graduate.   Its a competitive situation and there are winners and losers and usually the cream rises to the top, but not always.
> 
> At the same time, I've spoken to many college graduates who played at a high level that wouldn't change a thing.    It was the best time of their lives.




What ECNL only clubs hold a strong position right now........What Academy Clubs only hold a strong position..........i know there will be opinions.....but as a parent I am trying to paint a picture of what other parents views are......and what choices one would have based on some of you that are experienced in the competitive world.......both my daughters are very good and I'm positive the will pave their own roads at the level they play.........but the youngest faces whats ahead in a choice of direction, rather than my older ones choice now.


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## Round

soccermanifesto said:


> Lots of bitterness, cynicism, and regrets in this thread (or maybe just one poster repeating their views over and over.)
> 
> Enjoy the ride.  If the ride is not a net positive  for you or your child, do something else. No one is holding a gun to your head and making anyone play club soccer, or pay for ECNL or DA.
> 
> For those that like to compete at a high level, they will compete.  The memories they have are always of the friendships and relationships.  Maybe they'll remember a handful of key games, but its more the people they'll remember.
> 
> Soccer is a beautiful sport and its a great way to develop leadership, learn the value of sacrifice, be self-disciplined, embrace teamwork, be focused, and develop a great work ethic.  So you missed some parties along the way, but what did you REALLY miss?
> 
> Those that are fortunate enough to play and start at a D1 school (or any level really) can make up their own minds.  They can either be drinking and partying, or they can go on the road and build great friendships and compete in the sport they love.   Does playing soccer at the college level make you happy?  If so, then you should have no regrets. If it doesn't make you happy, or the sacrifice you have to make doesn't feel worth it, do something else.  If you have an all-encompassing major you'd rather do than meet the demands of college soccer, quit soccer and pursue your major.
> 
> For some young women, starting for UCLA or USC or Stanford or North Carolina or Penn State or Notre Dame is a big deal and the achievement of a dream.  Its a highpoint, possibly THE high point of their life. I'm not discounting it doesn't work out for some, or that priorities and passions change, or that injuries cut someone's journey short, or that some may get screwed over by a coach,  or some just have unrealistic estimates of their talents.   Some may certainly feel they wasted their time in the end about soccer after they graduate.   Its a competitive situation and there are winners and losers and usually the cream rises to the top, but not always.
> 
> At the same time, I've spoken to many college graduates who played at a high level that wouldn't change a thing.    It was the best time of their lives.


I was part of the cult once so I understand your need to defend and lash out at those that leave or question it.  I still go to temple but am far removed from the inner sanctum.  I'm just saying that the new effort required to get to the highest sect may be pushing it too far.


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## soccermanifesto

Thank you for reminding me why I rarely frequent these boards.

When I visit my daughter, I'll try and tell her she shouldn't be proud of getting into that school or what she's accomplished by her hard work,  she is just wasting her time.   Her happiness and friendships she's made and her relationship with her coaches are just self-delusion.   

I will have her change majors to something guaranteed to make her lots of money because money is all that matters right?  I'm thinking of putting her in acting because clearly she's faking her love for her school and her sport and regrets ever having done it. 

Thanks for setting me straight.


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## meatsweats

NoGoal said:


> Look up Boys DA rosters.  It shows the % of games kids start and play.  The majority of the starts and play time are dominated by 14-15 players.
> 
> What parents aren't realizing is that a girl's confidence wanes quickly, if they aren't playing.


Which is why I don't see DA falter the first year. It's the second year that we will see the impact. I don't know if most players and parents understand the DA game and numbers. Those 7-8 players that get very little playing time, if any, will be very upset. But by then, they will be half a season in.

This year will tell most players where they stand (true DA starter or bench player)....but, will these players and parents listen and be realistic. And how will clubs sell this to get a roster of 23 on?  We all know how it is for some....chasing the dream, without regard for the ability or desire of the player. 

Plus, I've heard on the boys side that the younger of the 2 year age group tends to get the shaft. So players go in and out of the system, every other year, essentially, as they age up. Is that true?


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## NoGoal

meatsweats said:


> Which is why I don't see DA falter the first year. It's the second year that we will see the impact. I don't know if most players and parents understand the DA game and numbers. Those 7-8 players that get very little playing time, if any, will be very upset. But by then, they will be half a season in.
> 
> This year will tell most players where they stand (true DA starter or bench player)....but, will these players and parents listen and be realistic. And how will clubs sell this to get a roster of 23 on?  We all know how it is for some....chasing the dream, without regard for the ability or desire of the player.
> 
> Plus, I've heard on the boys side that the younger of the 2 year age group tends to get the shaft. So players go in and out of the system, every other year, essentially, as they age up. Is that true?


Yes, my buddy has a son on a boys DA club.  He told me in the DA 2 year combined age groups, usually the Uodd year players (older) play more than the Ueven year players (younger).

He also told me, the DA clubs have a decision after 5-6 games played to either keep a player on the roster or drop them.  After 5-6 games, the player is on the roster permanently.  So, if my DD was not playing much after 5 games on the DA team.  I would then request for her to be dropped to the ECNL team, so she gets play time and college exposure instead.


----------



## meatsweats

silverstreak said:


> What ECNL only clubs hold a strong position right now........What Academy Clubs only hold a strong position..........i know there will be opinions.....but as a parent I am trying to paint a picture of what other parents views are......and what choices one would have based on some of you that are experienced in the competitive world.......both my daughters are very good and I'm positive the will pave their own roads at the level they play.........but the youngest faces whats ahead in a choice of direction, rather than my older ones choice now.


Top So Cal ECNL only clubs would be WCFC, Eagles and Real So Cal at the moment. Beach, LAGSD, Legends and LA Premier would probably head the DA only clubs. As far as strong position, I don't think any of of them are thinking that way. I know WC and RSC are still most concerned with getting their kids into college. DA new additions are so happy to be able to compete with ECNL, they haven't even stopped to breath. They know the battle isn't over and have fought for so long, this is nothing new. Just leveled the playing ground for them.

As many before me have said. If you can get into a club with both, probably the best scenario. More options. Otherwise, choose what best fits your logistics and player. There are opportunities for players that work hard, show well and stay focused. Some roads are just easier than others, doesn't mean they don't all lead to the same destination.


----------



## silverstreak

meatsweats said:


> Top So Cal ECNL only clubs would be WCFC, Eagles and Real So Cal at the moment. Beach, LAGSD, Legends and LA Premier would probably head the DA only clubs. As far as strong position, I don't think any of of them are thinking that way. I know WC and RSC are still most concerned with getting their kids into college. DA new additions are so happy to be able to compete with ECNL, they haven't even stopped to breath. They know the battle isn't over and have fought for so long, this is nothing new. Just leveled the playing ground for them.
> 
> As many before me have said. If you can get into a club with both, probably the best scenario. More options. Otherwise, choose what best fits your logistics and player. There are opportunities for players that work hard, show well and stay focused. Some roads are just easier than others, doesn't mean they don't all lead to the same destination.


i looked into WCFC and the other 2 are a distance, but you didnt mention Strikers, are they ECNL only? and how are they?   I imagine to see lots of movement again in the youth soccer world, just like this past season with the age change.......us parents are scrambling to put our kids on the right path because we want to get the best for our money........and a lot of money it is...........


----------



## CaliKlines

silverstreak said:


> i looked into WCFC and the other 2 are a distance, but you didnt mention Strikers, are they ECNL only? and how are they?


Of the 84 clubs across the USA currently in the ECNL, only 1 club lost more matches than Strikers last season. Don't forget, the ECNL is just another league that gets college coach exposure. Teams that earn their spot in the US Youth Soccer National League get a ton of college coach exposure as well, and you shouldn't limit your choices to clubs that have DA/ECNL or ECNL only status.


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## NoGoal

CaliKlines said:


> Of the 84 clubs across the USA currently in the ECNL, only 1 club lost more matches than Strikers last season. Don't forget, the ECNL is just another league that gets college coach exposure. Teams that earn their spot in the US Youth Soccer National League get a ton of college coach exposure as well, and you shouldn't limit your choices to clubs that have DA/ECNL or ECNL only status.


you forgot to add or DA only status!


----------



## Sped

NoGoal said:


> Yes, my buddy has a son on a boys DA club.  He told me in the DA 2 year combined age groups, usually the Uodd year players (older) play more than the Ueven year players (younger).
> 
> He also told me, the DA clubs have a decision after 5-6 games played to either keep a player on the roster or drop them.  After 5-6 games, the player is on the roster permanently.  So, if my DD was not playing much after 5 games on the DA team.  I would then request for her to be dropped to the ECNL team, so she gets play time and college exposure instead.


That assumes ECNL teams keep room open.  How far into the season will the DA team play it's 5-6th game?  And what if you're DA at a non-ECNL club (Carlsbad, for instance)?  Do you leave that club all together or stay on the top team?


----------



## eastbaysoccer

ECNL just added Elite Club form Nebraska and Davis from Nor Cal.  ECNL is hitting back.  Game on US Soccer.


----------



## meatsweats

Sped said:


> That assumes ECNL teams keep room open.  How far into the season will the DA team play it's 5-6th game?  And what if you're DA at a non-ECNL club (Carlsbad, for instance)?  Do you leave that club all together or stay on the top team?


ECNL teams can carry very big rosters (30 players).  So, I don't think it would be a problem to same space and give a top player playing time mid way through the season. Especially because ECNL is split in half anyway. That long break for HS soccer would be perfect time to mix in new DA defectors. I know it's all hypothetical, but possible. No?

Not sure how non USYS teams roster, but Carlsbad also seems to stack their older rosters to 20+. Is there a season cutoff or limit for non ECNL teams?

So, you asked if players will leave clubs all together? It's what I heard happens on the boys. Why not girls too?!


----------



## CaliKlines

I have also heard fabled legends about players that actually leave ECNL clubs for non-ECNL clubs. Shocking, but true.


----------



## meatsweats

CaliKlines said:


> I have also heard fabled legends about players that actually leave ECNL clubs for non-ECNL clubs. Shocking, but true.


That, of course, is true. The difference is, it's not player 1-11 that leaves ECNL for non ECNL, unless they are leaving a bottom end ECNL team. HOWEVER, I have seen starting NON ECNL players leave to ECNL losing teams. Saw that just this year. Frankly, I was confused. Given that the teams they left was ranked well and the clubs they left were just given DA. Saw this from two different players. Both starters and key players. 

Not saying it doesn't go the other way too, but I've just not seen it. DA may change this. We shall see!


----------



## Zerodenero

CaliKlines said:


> I have also heard fabled legends about players that actually leave ECNL clubs for non-ECNL clubs. Shocking, but true.


Captain-Cali....aren't ya forgetting something??


----------



## BornToRun

meatsweats said:


> That, of course, is true. The difference is, it's not player 1-11 that leaves ECNL for non ECNL, unless they are leaving a bottom end ECNL team. HOWEVER, I have seen starting NON ECNL players leave to ECNL losing teams. Saw that just this year. Frankly, I was confused. Given that the teams they left was ranked well and the clubs they left were just given DA. Saw this from two different players. Both starters and key players.
> 
> Not saying it doesn't go the other way too, but I've just not seen it. DA may change this. We shall see!


I think it already is.  Families are going to think twice about the distances and costs if they feel they can get the same or better result somehwere closer to home. At this point ECNL may need to think about reaching out to more geographical areas in SoCal. How about including a club or two somewhere in the vicinity of Los Angeles or the South Bay?  Maybe they should consider reaching out to the non-ECNL DA clubs?  What better way to promote their product than to capitalize off the limitations of the DA product at the clubs that have it. Time to be inclusive I think!


----------



## NoGoal

Sped said:


> That assumes ECNL teams keep room open.  How far into the season will the DA team play it's 5-6th game?  And what if you're DA at a non-ECNL club (Carlsbad, for instance)?  Do you leave that club all together or stay on the top team?


IMO, if the individual isn't playing...what is the point, to just train 4 days a week?  I'm sure the ECNL teams will make room for a DA player who wants to drop down.


----------



## NoGoal

meatsweats said:


> That, of course, is true. The difference is, it's not player 1-11 that leaves ECNL for non ECNL, unless they are leaving a bottom end ECNL team.


Meatsweats, I'm sorry but I have to stick up for Cali after your post above.  You do know Cali's DD was the Captain of her Strikers U14 team, before moving to Legends right?


----------



## meatsweats

BornToRun said:


> I think it already is.  Families are going to think twice about the distances and costs if they feel they can get the same or better result somehwere closer to home. At this point ECNL may need to think about reaching out to more geographical areas in SoCal. How about including a club or two somewhere in the vicinity of Los Angeles or the South Bay?  Maybe they should consider reaching out to the non-ECNL DA clubs?  What better way to promote their product than to capitalize off the limitations of the DA product at the clubs that have it. Time to be inclusive I think!


In theory, this makes all kind of sense. Will be interesting what move ECNL makes next.


----------



## meatsweats

NoGoal said:


> Meatsweats, I'm sorry but I have to stick up for Cali after your post above.  You do know Cali's DD was the Captain of her Strikers U14 team, before moving to Legends right?


Yup. I'm aware. Did you not read the part I wrote about "bottom flight" ECNL Clubs. Isn't Strikers at or near the bottom of all ECNL. Nothing against them. I know some players that recently moved there and I think they have brought in some great coaches of recent. Just saying you don't see starters leaving Blues, Surf or Slammers to play at Legends or Carlsbad. Or do you? I could be wrong. If I am, I'll be the first to recant.


----------



## SoccerSeeker

Noting that the academy teams will be combined in age groups and assuming that the teams will consist of the top 11 players from each year ( top 11 of the      04's, top 11 of the 03's), what will happen to the players who don't make the cut? Will they be moved to the b teams? And will the b teams now be the ones competing in the Ecnl, since the A teams would be in the academy? Also, will the same try-out procedure apply, or would the players need to try-out in front of specifically-qualified coaches instead of the usual coaches within the own club?


----------



## meatsweats

SoccerSeeker said:


> Noting that the academy teams will be combined in age groups and assuming that the teams will consist of the top 11 players from each year ( top 11 of the      04's, top 11 of the 03's), what will happen to the players who don't make the cut? Will they be moved to the b teams? And will the b teams now be the ones competing in the Ecnl, since the A teams would be in the academy? Also, will the same try-out procedure apply, or would the players need to try-out in front of specifically-qualified coaches instead of the usual coaches within the own club?


Outside of your last sentence, it's exactly what we've been talking about this whole thread. 

Procedure? Who knows. Qualified coaches. What are those? Who is top, 2nd and 3rd tier? I think it's already noted. Thing is, we have to wait to see how parents and players respond. The bag is mixed and there's still a year for ECNL to make some more additions to give DA a run. Should they choose. At the end of the day, players and parents are the major factors. But even they are limited. The politics of competitive soccer is very strong!


----------



## SoccerSeeker

meatsweats said:


> Outside of your last sentence, it's exactly what we've been talking about this whole thread.
> 
> Procedure? Who knows. Qualified coaches. What are those? Who is top, 2nd and 3rd tier? I think it's already noted. Thing is, we have to wait to see how parents and players respond. The bag is mixed and there's still a year for ECNL to make some more additions to give DA a run. Should they choose. At the end of the day, players and parents are the major factors. But even they are limited. The politics of competitive soccer is very strong!





meatsweats said:


> Outside of your last sentence, it's exactly what we've been talking about this whole thread.
> 
> Procedure? Who knows. Qualified coaches. What are those? Who is top, 2nd and 3rd tier? I think it's already noted. Thing is, we have to wait to see how parents and players respond. The bag is mixed and there's still a year for ECNL to make some more additions to give DA a run. Should they choose. At the end of the day, players and parents are the major factors. But even they are limited. The politics of competitive soccer is very strong!


By qualified coaches I meant if the regular club coaches would host the tryouts or would US National Coaches be the ones picking the players for the teams?


----------



## bababooey

Can a player be rostered on a DA team and an ECNL team at the same time? Or is each playing circuit mutually exclusive?

I could see where Blues, Surf and Slammers allows players to play on each team (if allowed) to have a competitive advantage over the organizations that only have DA or ECNL.
Thanks


----------



## mbeach

bababooey said:


> Can a player be rostered on a DA team and an ECNL team at the same time? Or is each playing circuit mutually exclusive?
> 
> I could see where Blues, Surf and Slammers allows players to play on each team (if allowed) to have a competitive advantage over the organizations that only have DA or ECNL.
> Thanks


DA girls are not allowed to compete in other league/tournaments. DA girls cannot play with non DA teams within their club or another club, during the DA season. Other than the DA season games, they can only compete with their DA teams in several tournaments approved by US Soccer. For example, I saw that boys DA have a special bracket in Surf Cup.     
If you want exact information I would recommend to google the DA application document, and read the GDA FAQ page in US Soccer. There is a link to the application nearby the FAQ page.


----------



## espola

mbeach said:


> DA girls are not allowed to compete in other league/tournaments. DA girls cannot play with non DA teams within their club or another club, during the DA season. Other than the DA season games, they can only compete with their DA teams in several tournaments approved by US Soccer. For example, I saw that boys DA have a special bracket in Surf Cup.
> If you want exact information I would recommend to google the DA application document, and read the GDA FAQ page in US Soccer. There is a link to the application nearby the FAQ page.


In spite of that, some clubs require their players to register through both PDA and USYSA, giving the clubs some flexibility in how to use t he players and limiting the ability of players to leave the PDA program.


----------



## KoaBear

silverstreak said:


> i looked into WCFC and the other 2 are a distance, but you didnt mention Strikers, are they ECNL only? and how are they?   I imagine to see lots of movement again in the youth soccer world, just like this past season with the age change.......us parents are scrambling to put our kids on the right path because we want to get the best for our money........and a lot of money it is...........


Strikers aren't good enough and don't have the history and qualified coaches for a GDA  acceptance. They will only be ECNL.


----------



## soccermanifesto

NoGoal said:


> Meatsweats, I'm sorry but I have to stick up for Cali after your post above.  You do know Cali's DD was the Captain of her Strikers U14 team, before moving to Legends right?


The top tier talent based on college recruitment  by top universities (academically or for top D1 NCAA soccer schools) in SoCal is solely ECNL Teams: Blues, Real So Cal, Slammers, and West Coast.

After that you get Legends, Beach, and ECNL Eagles in the next tier of placing players at top schools. 

ECNL teams Strikers and Arsenal rank well below Legends and Beach in terms of player placement.

Those are the facts in the debate, everything else is homerism.


----------



## Silky Johnston

silverstreak said:


> I would like the true honest opinion of pros and cons for each....... which clubs will prevail...... let's just say I am shopping clubs for my daughters and I want to give them the best possible chance at success. What we are not hearing from our club now is any type of sales pitch on how they will sustain at their particular status right now regarding this topic and where they are headed for the future you would think we'd have a big meeting or something but parents feel like they're in the dark ....Ready ....Set .....Go....!


Like anything what is the ultimate goal with your daughter? Right now if your looking for an Avenue to college ecnl is the best option. Depending on her age the best advice is get your daughter to a good technical trainer and go from there.


----------



## Silky Johnston

meatsweats said:


> That, of course, is true. The difference is, it's not player 1-11 that leaves ECNL for non ECNL, unless they are leaving a bottom end ECNL team. HOWEVER, I have seen starting NON ECNL players leave to ECNL losing teams. Saw that just this year. Frankly, I was confused. Given that the teams they left was ranked well and the clubs they left were just given DA. Saw this from two different players. Both starters and key players.
> 
> Not saying it doesn't go the other way too, but I've just not seen it. DA may change this. We shall see!


why would how good the team is have a bearing on where you take your kid? This is really the problem with club soccer in the US. What if you have a great coach with a lousy team and your kid is being trained and learning properly? If she is improving that's all that should matter. If you want I can give you all my Dds medals? They mean nothing winning shouldn't ever be the Primary Focus.. would rather be with a good coach than a winning team with a bad coach and 23 on roster.


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## soccermanifesto

I would argue if your daughter is on a consistently lousy team there's absolutely a ceiling to what they will learn and how much they will improve.  You want to be playing with other players who have talent, a baseline level of tactical knowledge, and soccer IQ.


----------



## Silky Johnston

soccermanifesto said:


> I would argue if your daughter is on a consistently lousy team there's absolutely a ceiling to what they will learn and how much they will improve.  You want to be playing with other players who have talent, a baseline level of tactical knowledge, and soccer IQ.


don't disagree but it shouldn't have a bearing on where you take her initially. I know losing gets old.


----------



## meatsweats

Silky Johnston said:


> why would how good the team is have a bearing on where you take your kid? This is really the problem with club soccer in the US. What if you have a great coach with a lousy team and your kid is being trained and learning properly? If she is improving that's all that should matter. If you want I can give you all my Dds medals? They mean nothing winning shouldn't ever be the Primary Focus.. would rather be with a good coach than a winning team with a bad coach and 23 on roster.


Nobody said it was all about winning. I think you are confused or it's something with your thoughts that has to do with your feelings on what the focus should or shouldn't be.

As others have said, and I'm an ECNL parent.....ECNL does not always mean you receive great coaching. I'm sure there are many reasons people move, ECNL or not. What I said is that I rarely see movement from ECNL to non ECNL for the starting 11 on the big 3-4 ECNL clubs, i.e., Blues, Surf, Slammers, etc. But I DO see movement from the top 2-3 non ECNL clubs, even if they are on national championship teams. MY opinion on this has NOTHING to do with winning. It's all about college exposure and currently, ECNL owns it. Even ahead of USYS National teams. Or why would those top players either leave, if they can or play as discovery players. Exposure. Plain and simple. Not winning.

That being said...DA changes everything!


----------



## Silky Johnston

meatsweats said:


> Nobody said it was all about winning. I think you are confused or it's something with your thoughts that has to do with your feelings on what the focus should or shouldn't be.
> 
> As others have said, and I'm an ECNL parent.....ECNL does not always mean you receive great coaching. I'm sure there are many reasons people move, ECNL or not. What I said is that I rarely see movement from ECNL to non ECNL for the starting 11 on the big 3-4 ECNL clubs, i.e., Blues, Surf, Slammers, etc. But I DO see movement from the top 2-3 non ECNL clubs, even if they are on national championship teams. MY opinion on this has NOTHING to do with winning. It's all about college exposure and currently, ECNL owns it. Even ahead of USYS National teams. Or why would those top players either leave, if they can or play as discovery players. Exposure. Plain and simple. Not winning.
> 
> That being said...DA changes everything!


not confused reread the post I commented on. Everyone is in Ecnl for exposure. I don't know how DA changes everything and either does anybody else including the people involved with DA. Also DA for anybody above 7th  grade really won't have the impact that Ecnl has right now. It will take time to get going .. not confused


----------



## NoGoal

soccermanifesto said:


> I would argue if your daughter is on a consistently lousy team there's absolutely a ceiling to what they will learn and how much they will improve.  You want to be playing with other players who have talent, a baseline level of tactical knowledge, and soccer IQ.


And college coaches want to see if a potential recruit can execute against top level players.


----------



## SoccerDad77

Can't you all just let it go? This is the same crap people said years back when ECNL started... ECNL then became the hotbed for the majority of top level talent in the USA (not ALL the talent, just majority)... Now the girls DA will take its place because talent always funnels to top clubs and coaches, and if you're not delusional or bias, you realize the top dogs are now moving to DA instead of ECNL... If you're the elite, highest level talent in OC, it's fairly obvious you're going to try and play for slammers/blues... Same goes for SD with surf... Inland with legends (previously Arsenal).. Etc etc all across the country. If you don't see that, then surely you will in a few years time... Let it go. It's over for ECNL as the highest level program ... I don't even have a daughter but as an outside observer it's silly reading all of the back and forth when you already know the real answer...


----------



## meatsweats

Silky Johnston said:


> not confused reread the post I commented on. Everyone is in Ecnl for exposure. I don't know how DA changes everything and either does anybody else including the people involved with DA. Also DA for anybody above 7th  grade really won't have the impact that Ecnl has right now. It will take time to get going .. not confused


If you don't think DA will have impact the first year, you're smoking some good wacky weed. I would agree with you if the TOP ECNL teams weren't the first to get DA status. But they did get it and if you think they won't put their best ECNL players on the DA teams, you're nuts. My DD happens to be at a ECNL/DD club. No guarantee she would even make DA status as the player pool is fantastic. Even so, ECNL will be diluted in 2017 with player movement and shift of focus of top players.

Look, recruiters can only be at one place at a time. Given a choice, they're going with DA. No, ECNL won't go away, but it will be impacted and diluted. That's a given.


----------



## madcow

meatsweats said:


> If you don't think DA will have impact the first year, you're smoking some good wacky weed. I would agree with you if the TOP ECNL teams weren't the first to get DA status. But they did get it and if you think they won't put their best ECNL players on the DA teams, you're nuts. My DD happens to be at a ECNL/DD club. No guarantee she would even make DA status as the player pool is fantastic. Even so, ECNL will be diluted in 2017 with player movement and shift of focus of top players.
> 
> Look, recruiters can only be at one place at a time. Given a choice, they're going with DA. No, ECNL won't go away, but it will be impacted and diluted. That's a given.


I pretty much agree with everything you said. The Surf/ Blues/ Slammers A team girls will put on a new DA patch and the B team will put on the ECNL patch. That won't change. But, that is only for the first year... or even first half of the first year.

I think the Dual roster and restrictive sub rules will be big factors that most aren't considering. In ECNL you could have a roster of 28 (which sucked, btw). But in that roster, you may have 2-3 injured, 2-3 visiting colleges and/ or National camps and 3-4 dual rostered players that were on the B team, but trained with the A team and played when needed. In any given game, depending on the opposition, You could have your 11, plus 4-5 getting field time.  That leaves a few girls not rostered or playing that game. But, the dual rostered girls can still play with their B team, though. Then when the National Showcases came around, those same dual rostered or not rostered girls could/ would play a majority of the games. It isn't perfect, but the playtime/ college exposure was spread around a bit.

With the DA, you can only play for one team and there is only 3 subs per game (if I remember correctly). With that same roster size, that leaves 2-3 injured, 2-3 out visiting and 4-6 not playing that day. Then you have 4 girls rostered but not seeing the field each game. That is 8-10 girls trapped on a roster. How long will player #22 hang around? Some girls will suck it up and hang out until the end of the season, then tryout for the ECNL team the next season. But some girls will quit half way through the season and move clubs, just to be able to play.
For players 1-15 or so, everything will  be fine. But for the bottom of the roster...

My daughter's friend plays for the U18 LA Galaxy DA team. He said they started the season with 26, but they finished the season with 16. The boys just wanted to play and most would rather play for their home club than to not play for a fully funded academy team. I don't know if that is typical or just specific to this team.

Either way, the DA will have an impact, but the question is will it have the same impact the following year? Who knows, maybe some of the top talent moves to both the DA and ECNL and you could have 2 strong national leagues?


----------



## tugs

First transition year will tell a lot.  My question (please share some info if you can) is how will this affect the college scouts/coaches?  Will they have to attend both ECNL and DA (especially first few years as DA will have to get revved up and work out kinks?).  Anyone have inside info?  I asked a D1 pac-12 coach this question and he told me first year they will be attending both (just more work for them).


----------



## madcow

tugs said:


> First transition year will tell a lot.  My question (please share some info if you can) is how will this affect the college scouts/coaches?  Will they have to attend both ECNL and DA (especially first few years as DA will have to get revved up and work out kinks?).  Anyone have inside info?  I asked a D1 pac-12 coach this question and he told me first year they will be attending both (just more work for them).


I imagine they will attend both (as budgets allow). The best thing that ECNL provided, was access to all age groups in one location. There are coaches that like girls from certain clubs. One coach could go to a league game and literally fill his/ her roster with players from Slammers for 4 years. The same with the National events. You could watch the Blues 17's, then spin around and watch the Blues 16s. Or move from one age group to the other.

I suspect the DA's showcases will be the same. The issue will be if they schedule those events at the same time in different parts of the US


----------



## MakeAPlay

madcow said:


> I imagine they will attend both (as budgets allow). The best thing that ECNL provided, was access to all age groups in one location. There are coaches that like girls from certain clubs. One coach could go to a league game and literally fill his/ her roster with players from Slammers for 4 years. The same with the National events. You could watch the Blues 17's, then spin around and watch the Blues 16s. Or move from one age group to the other.
> 
> I suspect the DA's showcases will be the same. The issue will be if they schedule those events at the same time in different parts of the US


I agree with this statement.  The second year will depend upon who puts out a better product and gives them more opportunities to fill their roster.  I wouldn't bet on US soccer doing a great job.  I also wouldn't be surprised if the financial impact of our Olympic flame out forced them to cut back their plans.  Too many unknowns at this point.  Glad mine doesn't have to go through this.


----------



## NoGoal

MakeAPlay said:


> I agree with this statement.  The second year will depend upon who puts out a better product and gives them more opportunities to fill their roster.  I wouldn't bet on US soccer doing a great job.  I also wouldn't be surprised if the financial impact of our Olympic flame out forced them to cut back their plans.  Too many unknowns at this point.  Glad mine doesn't have to go through this.


Olympic flame, US WNT Olympic flame out....was that a pun?  lol


----------



## BornToRun

madcow said:


> I pretty much agree with everything you said. The Surf/ Blues/ Slammers A team girls will put on a new DA patch and the B team will put on the ECNL patch. That won't change. But, that is only for the first year... or even first half of the first year.
> 
> I think the Dual roster and restrictive sub rules will be big factors that most aren't considering. In ECNL you could have a roster of 28 (which sucked, btw). But in that roster, you may have 2-3 injured, 2-3 visiting colleges and/ or National camps and 3-4 dual rostered players that were on the B team, but trained with the A team and played when needed. In any given game, depending on the opposition, You could have your 11, plus 4-5 getting field time.  That leaves a few girls not rostered or playing that game. But, the dual rostered girls can still play with their B team, though. Then when the National Showcases came around, those same dual rostered or not rostered girls could/ would play a majority of the games. It isn't perfect, but the playtime/ college exposure was spread around a bit.
> 
> With the DA, you can only play for one team and there is only 3 subs per game (if I remember correctly). With that same roster size, that leaves 2-3 injured, 2-3 out visiting and 4-6 not playing that day. Then you have 4 girls rostered but not seeing the field each game. That is 8-10 girls trapped on a roster. How long will player #22 hang around? Some girls will suck it up and hang out until the end of the season, then tryout for the ECNL team the next season. But some girls will quit half way through the season and move clubs, just to be able to play.
> For players 1-15 or so, everything will  be fine. But for the bottom of the roster...
> 
> My daughter's friend plays for the U18 LA Galaxy DA team. He said they started the season with 26, but they finished the season with 16. The boys just wanted to play and most would rather play for their home club than to not play for a fully funded academy team. I don't know if that is typical or just specific to this team.
> 
> Either way, the DA will have an impact, but the question is will it have the same impact the following year? Who knows, maybe some of the top talent moves to both the DA and ECNL and you could have 2 strong national leagues?


I would expect the TOP talent will stay with DA as they will be the ones who play.


----------



## madcow

BornToRun said:


> I would expect the TOP talent will stay with DA as they will be the ones who play.


That's why I said for 1-15 everything will be fine. The problem is when all that is left is 1-15. Then when you have injuries, visits and camps, you're short.


----------



## MakeAPlay

madcow said:


> That's why I said for 1-15 everything will be fine. The problem is when all that is left is 1-15. Then when you have injuries, visits and camps, you're short.


That's also assuming 1-15 doesn't want to play high school and is not already in the YNT pool.  A player that is already getting invited to camp and wants to play high school has exactly what incentive to leave an already good situation?  They are going to miss games anyway due to YNT camps.  Most of those players want to play in games and even though those 20 or so High school games are terrible they get hundreds of their friends and peers in the stand and weirdly the girls care about that stuff even if the quality of the soccer is low.  I can tell you 100% that mine wouldn't have chosen ECNL if she had to quit high school.  Not sure how the other players would choose but I know that it is going to be an issue.


----------



## meatsweats

madcow said:


> That's why I said for 1-15 everything will be fine. The problem is when all that is left is 1-15. Then when you have injuries, visits and camps, you're short.


I agree, but I put that number at more like 1-18, now that you broke down the numbers like you did. See, because of those injuries and visits, etc., there are always a few missing. So 15-18 could see substantial enough time to warrant them staying on. And then I give 2 or so kids (parents really), that stay even if they don't play. Just for the fact it's DA status. We all know those types.

Assuming said club is a DA and ECNL status club, this still leaves ECNL teams left in the respective age groups. Except, now their strongest players are in DA. Therefore, those ECNL teams are now pulling from B or C teams to complete their 20 man roster. Even in the top clubs, there just aren't enough "top" players to fill rosters for 3 DA teams and 6 ECNL. That would be something like 200 so called "elite" level players at one club (ages 12-18). NO WAY!!!! College coaches will go straight to DA and maybe visit ECNL championships or larger showcases. But I wouldn't see them doing all they do now. It's just too much!

At the moment, the one carrot that ECNL can keep dangling....high school soccer. As some have said, it's going to be an issue for DA.


----------



## NoGoal

meatsweats said:


> I agree, but I put that number at more like 1-18, now that you broke down the numbers like you did. See, because of those injuries and visits, etc., there are always a few missing. So 15-18 could see substantial enough time to warrant them staying on. And then I give 2 or so kids (parents really), that stay even if they don't play. Just for the fact it's DA status. We all know those types.
> 
> Assuming said club is a DA and ECNL status club, this still leaves ECNL teams left in the respective age groups. Except, now their strongest players are in DA. Therefore, those ECNL teams are now pulling from B or C teams to complete their 20 man roster. Even in the top clubs, there just aren't enough "top" players to fill rosters for 3 DA teams and 6 ECNL. That would be something like 200 so called "elite" level players at one club (ages 12-18). NO WAY!!!! College coaches will go straight to DA and maybe visit ECNL championships or larger showcases. But I wouldn't see them doing all they do now. It's just too much!
> 
> At the moment, the one carrot that ECNL can keep dangling....high school soccer. As some have said, it's going to be an issue for DA.


The clubs with DA and ECNL status could pull players from the B team to fill the remaining ECNL roster, but they will also pull players from the DA only clubs.  Players #11-18 per age group, who did NOT make the DA dual age team will try to get on another other DA team and if that doesn't pan out an ECNL team.

I agree with Madcow that ECNL works having an expanded roster to pull players from the B team if a player is injured, going to unoffical visits, or YNT camps/games.  It works, because ECNL follows the college substitution rules (getting more players in a game).  I don't know the DA rules regarding pulling players up mid season, but this is where a club with DA and ECNL has a HUGE advantage.  If the DA team has a string of injuries and are allowed to add playrs mid-year.  They can call up an ECNL player.


----------



## Eusebio

So my question is, do we have a deep enough talent pool to support both DA and ECNL at respectable levels?

IF ECNL is primarily pulling from "B" teams is there enough talent to field competitive teams at ECNL showcases? One thing I've noticed on the boys side this season, with the expanding of the DA clubs/age groups (new u12 clubs, separate u13, u14 age groups, etc), there has been a HUGE drop-off in the talent pool in the "Flight 1" club teams, particularly at the big clubs. So far this season in those age groups, the "B" teams at major clubs are struggling tremendously against non-DA clubs. And this is in the age groups (u12 - u14) where player participation is still pretty high, yet there is already a huge drop-off in talent outside of the DA teams. There a few non-DA teams (Boca Juniors, CDA Slammers, etc) that could be competitive against some DA teams, but on the whole the pool is so thin that the big clubs struggle to put together competitive "B" teams.

The other half of why the big DA clubs can't field strong "B" teams is that frankly they don't care about the secondary teams. I believe in the B2003 topic we talked about how LAUFA was one of the very few DA clubs that actually had a proper Reserve team. Their Reserve team regularly scrimmages the DA team and share resources and coaching. But they are the exception. The vast majority of DA clubs, keep their best resources, fields, and coaching just for the Academy teams and rarely interact with the "B" teams at the club and there's very little to non-existent player movement to and fro.

How is this relevant to ECNL? Because these same clubs have shown they can only focus on one "elite" program at a time and cater to one elite group. If DA is their flagship program, then that's where they will pour all their resources and recruitment into. I'm sure DA and ECNL can co-exist, but ECNL will not be DA's little brother. Instead it will likely be its 3rd cousin twice removed on its step-mother's side. I understand the argument about some players wanting to play high-school and get more playing time. But as others have said, this is usually player's #19-24 on a roster.  Is this really enough to form another 18-23 player roster with adequate talent?  Perhaps if the big clubs pushed hard to create and support strong B teams,  they could better retain the left-over talent from their Elite team. But it hasn't been the case so far and often times the Elite "left-over" talent gets wise to not pay big bucks to play on a poorly resourced B team and opt to play on a less expensive but quality local club.

People here are saying clubs with both DA and ECNL are the best options, but that's why I think it's just the opposite. If your child wants to go the ECNL track, you're probably better off finding an ECNL-only club. At least those clubs will be pouring their top resources (fields, coaches, equipment, fundraising, recruitment, and etc) into their ECNL program and it'll likely be worth your money. But the question is, how many ECNL-only clubs will there be in SoCal (are there any?)? This is where the restrictive membership of ECNL over the years is going to bite them in the @ass. If they had gotten a few more clubs involved, there would probably be some smaller ECNL clubs who couldn't afford to also offer a DA program and they would stay ECNL-only. I'm guessing over the next year ECNL will be in a mad dash to sign new clubs who they had repeatedly rejected over the years.


----------



## NoGoal

Eusebio said:


> So my question is, do we have a deep enough talent pool to support both DA and ECNL at respectable levels?
> 
> IF ECNL is primarily pulling from "B" teams is there enough talent to field competitive teams at ECNL showcases? One thing I've noticed on the boys side this season, with the expanding of the DA clubs/age groups (new u12 clubs, separate u13, u14 age groups, etc), there has been a HUGE drop-off in the talent pool in the "Flight 1" club teams, particularly at the big clubs. So far this season in those age groups, the "B" teams at major clubs are struggling tremendously against non-DA clubs. And this is in the age groups (u12 - u14) where player participation is still pretty high, yet there is already a huge drop-off in talent outside of the DA teams. There a few non-DA teams (Boca Juniors, CDA Slammers, etc) that could be competitive against some DA teams, but on the whole the pool is so thin that the big clubs struggle to put together competitive "B" teams.
> 
> The other half of why the big DA clubs can't field strong "B" teams is that frankly they don't care about the secondary teams. I believe in the B2003 topic we talked about how LAUFA was one of the very few DA clubs that actually had a proper Reserve team. Their Reserve team regularly scrimmages the DA team and share resources and coaching. But they are the exception. The vast majority of DA clubs, keep their best resources, fields, and coaching just for the Academy teams and rarely interact with the "B" teams at the club and there's very little to non-existent player movement to and fro.
> 
> How is this relevant to ECNL? Because these same clubs have shown they can only focus on one "elite" program at a time and cater to one elite group. If DA is their flagship program, then that's where they will pour all their resources and recruitment into. I'm sure DA and ECNL can co-exist, but ECNL will not be DA's little brother. Instead it will likely be its 3rd cousin twice removed on its step-mother's side. I understand the argument about some players wanting to play high-school and get more playing time. But as others have said, this is usually player's #19-24 on a roster.  Is this really enough to form another 18-23 player roster with adequate talent?  Perhaps if the big clubs pushed hard to create and support strong B teams,  they could better retain the left-over talent from their Elite team. But it hasn't been the case so far and often times the Elite "left-over" talent gets wise to not pay big bucks to play on a poorly resourced B team and opt to play on a less expensive but quality local club.
> 
> People here are saying clubs with both DA and ECNL are the best options, but that's why I think it's just the opposite. If your child wants to go the ECNL track, you're probably better off finding an ECNL-only club. At least those clubs will be pouring their top resources (fields, coaches, equipment, fundraising, recruitment, and etc) into their ECNL program and it'll likely be worth your money. But the question is, how many ECNL-only clubs will there be in SoCal (are there any?)? This is where the restrictive membership of ECNL over the years is going to bite them in the @ass. If they had gotten a few more clubs involved, there would probably be some smaller ECNL clubs who couldn't afford to also offer a DA program and they would stay ECNL-only. I'm guessing over the next year ECNL will be in a mad dash to sign new clubs who they had repeatedly rejected over the years.


Biggest difference between the boys pool vs the girls pool.  As boys hit HS age, you will see a higher attrition rate among the boys.  They will leave soccer for football, baseball, etc, thus lower opportunities to field stronger B teams.  This is exactly what happened to my sons team several years back when U14/15 hit.

IMO, girls soccer is the equivalent of boys football.  If a female is athletic they usually end up or remain playing soccer during HS age.

Surf college cup in November is a perfect example.
http://events.gotsport.com/events/Default.aspx?eventid=46881


----------



## eastbaysoccer

This is not about DA vs. ECNL.  It's about DA vs. High school.  

My dd likes her varsity jacket.  Girls that play DA won't be recognized as athletes at high school.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Sorry no dual club will field a good B team.  Will members stock around on an average team, waiting to be pulled up to DA.  NO way.  What B team is good in so cal?


----------



## offthecrossbar

eastbaysoccer said:


> Sorry no dual club will field a good B team.  Will members stock around on an average team, waiting to be pulled up to DA.  NO way.  What B team is good in so cal?


It's about maximizing college exposure.  DD can't get on the DA team, look for the next best option an ECNL team.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

offthecrossbar said:


> It's about maximizing college exposure.  DD can't get on the DA team, look for the next best option an ECNL team.


And. If your B team isn't good who will watch?  

Perhaps DA will be the B team?  The reason why so cal dual clubs are holding on to ecnl's status is because they aren't sure da will be successful.  If they were certain Ecnl would have been dropped.


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## eastbaysoccer

Committed players want to have fun before heading to college before their full time job, soccer begins.


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## SOCCERMINION

eastbaysoccer said:


> Sorry no dual club will field a good B team.  Will members stock around on an average team, waiting to be pulled up to DA.  NO way.  What B team is good in so cal?


Um , so your Saying with GDA, the SOCAL Blues ECNL Teams (their B-Teams) are not going to be any good next year? thats laughable.....


----------



## tugs

DA as of now only takes about 10 players per age group and field each game with approximately 14 players.  Think about that.  The rest of these extremely talented players will not be seeing the field much.  These top notch players quickly stagnate on the bench and will no tolerate it. What's the use of being on a DA squad if they're not being played (or scouted?).  These players would (I believe) would rather play on the ECNL team and increase their sense of worth by increasing their playing time (keep in mind they'll be getting plenty of looks as scouts will attend both ECNL and DA in first few years).  A large top notch club that has both ECNL and DA will be able to field a competitive ECNL team no problem for these reasons.  Also if a player has a choice between a "B" team at a DA club vs ECNL team at a club that has both, where do you think they'll go?  ECNL won't have problems until DA is able to put together a team per age year IMHO.


----------



## Silky Johnston

eastbaysoccer said:


> And. If your B team isn't good who will watch?
> 
> Perhaps DA will be the B team?  The reason why so cal dual clubs are holding on to ecnl's status is because they aren't sure da will be successful.  If they were certain Ecnl would have been dropped.


 doesn't matter if da or ecnl is b team colleges will have to watch both as there still are ecnl or da only clubs


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## MakeAPlay

eastbaysoccer said:


> Committed players want to have fun before heading to college before their full time job, soccer begins.


Committed players that want to have fun and not work hard at getting better end up sitting the bench and get recruited over.  The players that play as freshman work hard their senior year.  My player played the least amount of competitive games due to various reasons as a senior but worked the hardest (including the offseason) and it is paying HUGE dividends now at the beginning of the college season.


----------



## NoGoal

Arsenal and Strikers are screwed!

11 DA clubs....why stop there might as well add Arsenal, Strikers, FC Golden State, Albion, Fullerton Rangers, Lancaster Lollipops, Victorville Vikings, Palm Springs Panthers, Chula Vista Coyotes, the Santa Monica Saints and rename DA to Coast Soccer League.

Seriously, IMO...ECNL is in trouble 2-3 years from now.


----------



## Silky Johnston

NoGoal said:


> Arsenal and Strikers are screwed!
> 
> 11 DA clubs....why stop there might as well add Arsenal, Strikers, FC Golden State, Albion, Fullerton Rangers, Lancaster Lollipops, Victorville Vikings, Palm Springs Panthers, Chula Vista Coyotes, the Santa Monica Saints and rename DA to Coast Soccer League.
> 
> Seriously, IMO...ECNL is in trouble 2-3 years from now.


Never thought this was really about development it was just a way to be involved and compete against ecnl. If it was about development the academy ages would be in the younger age groups. Adding the other 2 So California ecnl teams deals a real blow to ecnl. So what does the ecnl group do now? Offer the non ecnl DA clubs Ecnl? Wouldn't that muddy the so called Development waters.


----------



## meatsweats

Silky Johnston said:


> Never thought this was really about development it was just a way to be involved and compete against ecnl. If it was about development the academy ages would be in the younger age groups. Adding the other 2 So California ecnl teams deals a real blow to ecnl. So what does the ecnl group do now? Offer the non ecnl DA clubs Ecnl? Wouldn't that muddy the so called Development waters.


I think the ONLY way ECNL can fully compete with DA now that these remaining clubs have been added (especially in So Cal), is for ECNL to add all DA only clubs to their repertoire. 

At this point, ECNL is truly a 2nd tier league and all situations remain fair. There will be fallout. ECNL should want to capture fallout from ALL "top tier" clubs. Then you can market that. Then you have something to sell to Colleges.

All the big shot ECNL clubs are in the DA. So WTF do they care, really!?  But some of the DA only clubs are still tied up. As ECNL, I'd rather get rid of the non DA chosen (yet still ECNL) few and pick up the others. Makes long term sense.

Really, ECNL can make their play by allowing HS soccer and having more subs per game. This in itself could give them a hands up. But ONLY, and only if they accept their role.


----------



## SOCCERMINION

NoGoal said:


> Arsenal and Strikers are screwed!
> 
> 11 DA clubs....why stop there might as well add Arsenal, Strikers, FC Golden State, Albion, Fullerton Rangers, Lancaster Lollipops, Victorville Vikings, Palm Springs Panthers, Chula Vista Coyotes, the Santa Monica Saints and rename DA to Coast Soccer League.
> 
> Seriously, IMO...ECNL is in trouble 2-3 years from now.


Why don't they just give DA to Arsenal and Strikers and all the other ECNL clubs and call "Checkmate" on the ECNL League. With 74 DA clubs, why stop there to only add more in the next years to match ECNL 84. Get it all over with now so we as parents have a chance at providing some stability in our daughters training and team these next few years. "And I thought the Age shake up was bad". Looks like my Daughter will be playing with all new girls every year for the next 3 years the way things are going.
BTW when is the next batch of DA clubs going to be announced or are they done?


----------



## MessiFTW

MakeAPlay said:


> My player played the least amount of competitive games due to various reasons (i.e., I stopped banging the H.S. coach) as a senior but worked the hardest (including the offseason) and it is paying HUGE dividends now at the beginning of the college season (i.e., because I started banging the DD's college coach).


 You go girl!


----------



## Flex

Couldn't all the ECNL teams get together and say to US Soccer that we've changed our minds and areally rejecting your request for DA status. We have decided to improve on the ECNL league and make it bigger and better. By requiring 3 trainings per week, A&B license coaches. Rules for promotion into ECNL and regulation. How would DA survive without the ECNL clubs? What is US Soccer offering these ECNL clubs that is making them desert ECNL?


----------



## C.A.M.

Round said:


> I predict that in 8 years there will be a whole bunch 20 to 26 year olds with a lot of regrets about how much they gave up for what really amounted to very little.


We all have our experiences. I'm 20+ years out of high school, never played college sports and don't regret the time, energy and devotion I gave to the sports I played. In fact, I apply the disciplines I learned during those years everyday as a person in the workforce and a parent. I relate to both my young athletes better because of it and it helps create a bond.

Being a high level athlete is hard and having people who understand your successes, struggles and pains physically, spiritually and emotionally helps the process.  My children are now at the age they understand that their parents understand what is going on and it builds a better family bond. Hopefully they will take these lessons and use them wisely in their lives. No wasted time when developing good human beings.


Now on Academy vs ECNL. I agree Academy will be top dog just like in the boys program. I prefer Academy because the training, development and quality of play remains high while travel costs and fees remain reasonable (or even free). ECNL has financial barriers that can keep higher level players with less money off these teams.

Almost all the boys Academies are not costs to the parents. With how much money most of these larger clubs are making (3 teams per age group all at the same pay level), I would suspect the girls academies to follow suit in the near future.  My son is younger than my daughter and both play. He has always developed in the Academy system and frankly, I find it superior. The atmosphere at 95% of these places is much more enjoyable for us and him. None of it is perfect and we all have to find the right fit for our children and families.  Many of us have even more choices and opportunities now.


----------



## C.A.M.

Flex said:


> Couldn't all the ECNL teams get together and say to US Soccer that we've changed our minds and areally rejecting your request for DA status. We have decided to improve on the ECNL league and make it bigger and better. By requiring 3 trainings per week, A&B license coaches. Rules for promotion into ECNL and regulation. How would DA survive without the ECNL clubs? What is US Soccer offering these ECNL clubs that is making them desert ECNL?


Most of the DA clubs are ECNL also. More opportunities for the girls and clubs. Neither DA or ECNL says a club has to be one of the other. Best of both worlds?


----------



## Swoosh

Flex said:


> Couldn't all the ECNL teams get together and say to US Soccer that we've changed our minds and areally rejecting your request for DA status. We have decided to improve on the ECNL league and make it bigger and better. By requiring 3 trainings per week, A&B license coaches. Rules for promotion into ECNL and regulation. How would DA survive without the ECNL clubs? What is US Soccer offering these ECNL clubs that is making them desert ECNL?


That ship sailed long ago.


----------



## soccermanifesto

C.A.M. said:


> We all have our experiences. I'm 20+ years out of high school, never played college sports and don't regret the time, energy and devotion I gave to the sports I played. In fact, I apply the disciplines I learned during those years everyday as a person in the workforce and a parent. I relate to both my young athletes better because of it and it helps create a bond.
> 
> Being a high level athlete is hard and having people who understand your successes, struggles and pains physically, spiritually and emotionally helps the process.  My children are now at the age they understand that their parents understand what is going on and it builds a better family bond. Hopefully they will take these lessons and use them wisely in their lives. No wasted time when developing good human beings.


There are several on this board that project their bitterness and cynicism over expectations not met onto the process as a whole. For these young women, its an exciting high when they are recruited by a university and their hard work and talent is recognized and validated.   Does it always work out for any number of reasons?  Of course not.   

I stand by my personal belief that in the scope of your life, being a college starter at a great school (especially at the D1 level) is absolutely hard to top... And in many cases is more satisfying and exciting than what you will later experience entering the job market and the business world.


----------



## bababooey

I would have never thought there would be more GDA organizations in So Cal than ECNL organizations.

Originally I thought US Soccer was developing GDA for the betterment of the girls. Now it looks like US Soccer just wanted to control the "top" tier of talent.


----------



## Round

soccermanifesto said:


> There are several on this board that project their bitterness and cynicism over expectations not met onto the process as a whole. For these young women, its an exciting high when they are recruited by a university and their hard work and talent is recognized and validated.   Does it always work out for any number of reasons?  Of course not.
> 
> I stand by my personal belief that in the scope of your life, being a college starter at a great school (especially at the D1 level) is absolutely hard to top... And in many cases is more satisfying and exciting than what you will later experience entering the job market and the business world.


Words like bitterness and cynicism are cute.  It takes a whole lot of girls who don't reach, or decide later not to pursue the goal that you seem to have for your kid to make that goal for your kid possible.  Ultimately this is just girls soccer, very few people care about it.

It's not bitterness or cynicism to question the value of what will now be an even more demanding system.  Hopefully she won't have any regrets.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MessiFTW said:


> You go girl!



You really should talk to your wife about your lack of action and inadequate equipment.  You constantly worrying about who I am banging speaks volumes about what is going on in your world little guy.


----------



## soccermanifesto

Round said:


> It takes a whole lot of girls who don't reach, or decide later not to pursue the goal that you seem to have for your kid to make that goal for your kid possible.  Ultimately this is just girls soccer, very few people care about it.


So to sum up:

Very few people care about it.

Lots don't make it, it's not fair.

I'm "living through my kid. "

I have a "goal" for my kid that is achieved over the ruined dreams and crushed hopes of others.

(And in reading between the lines, I should prepare my daughter because it's not worth it and she's likely to burn out or quit anyway) 

But you're not bitter or cynical.  Got it.


----------



## Zerodenero

Round said:


> Words like bitterness and cynicism are cute.  It takes a whole lot of girls who don't reach, or decide later not to pursue the goal that you seem to have for your kid to make that goal for your kid possible.  Ultimately this is just girls soccer, very few people care about it.
> 
> It's not bitterness or cynicism to question the value of what will now be an even more demanding system.  Hopefully she won't have any regrets.


Gosh Round...y u always gotta kill the vibe. Start your anti-depressant Lithium treatment.

Doctors orders


----------



## Silky Johnston

Flex said:


> Couldn't all the ECNL teams get together and say to US Soccer that we've changed our minds and areally rejecting your request for DA status. We have decided to improve on the ECNL league and make it bigger and better. By requiring 3 trainings per week, A&B license coaches. Rules for promotion into ECNL and regulation. How would DA survive without the ECNL clubs? What is US Soccer offering these ECNL clubs that is making them desert ECNL?


this is what happens in business when you have no competition.. the only problem with the club soccer model is the only real people who lose out are our kids. Can someone explain how for 6 years of club soccer almost every team practiced only twice a week now that us soccer is in charge you now are going to practice 4xs a week? What changed? Weren't we paying for development before wasn't that was this was supposed to be about when we went to club soccer? Development? Don't the ayso teams practice twice a week? So what gives ?


----------



## Silky Johnston

bababooey said:


> I would have never thought there would be more GDA organizations in So Cal than ECNL organizations.
> 
> Originally I thought US Soccer was developing GDA for the betterment of the girls. Now it looks like US Soccer just wanted to control the "top" tier of talent.


this is a business plain and simple. Never about development it's like every other business money and power...


----------



## C.A.M.

People are saying "it's a business" like they didn't know. Just about everyone here said ok to playing Club soccer so the kids would get away from the AYSO model, be in more serious, focused and intense atmospheres with better coaching, players, teams and competition. That ideal is what has fueled Club soccer and ECNL for years.

Now what if US Soccer comes in, ups the stakes a bit and says, "Stop pretending you are serious about developing and develop. Practice is now 4 days a week. The game and travel schedule is pared down and you will focus solely on this sport at this level. Oh yeah, we also want to have the Academy teams be at no costs to the players so the differentiators are now talent, desire, focus and drive and not how rich the parents are. Now let's go!".

So what are you doubters really mad about?


----------



## Silky Johnston

C.A.M. said:


> People are saying "it's a business" like they didn't know. Just about everyone here said ok to playing Club soccer so the kids would get away from the AYSO model, be in more serious, focused and intense atmospheres with better coaching, players, teams and competition. That ideal is what has fueled Club soccer and ECNL for years.
> 
> Now what if US Soccer comes in, ups the stakes a bit and says, "Stop pretending you are serious about developing and develop. Practice is now 4 days a week. The game and travel schedule is pared down and you will focus solely on this sport at this level. Oh yeah, we also want to have the Academy teams be at no costs to the players so the differentiators are now talent, desire, focus and drive and not how rich the parents are. Now let's go!".
> 
> So what are you doubters really mad about?


I can only speak for myself . I am not mad but why does everyone pretend its about something other than what it really is? Have you ever heard this is a business from any club? Have you heard to get good you need to practice 4 times a week and we should absorb some of the cost? This system is broken we all know it some say something about it and then  they are labeled winers complainers negative not loyal selfish whatever suits the case. I have been saying the same thing for years this is nothing new the only good part is US soccer is now saying the way you have been doing this since u8 is wrong. The guys we have let into our clique the same guys that have been shorting you all this time the guys who have continually put themselves aND the success of their pocketbooks in front of what your kid truly needs to have a chance in this sport they r ok  now dont worry we will watch them feel better it will be cheaper for you.. I don't get it ...not mad just wondering why we have all been deceived for so long? Not mad just waiting for answers? I hope you r with a club not a parent. I would love for a club guy to answer those questions. ..


----------



## NoGoal

C.A.M. said:


> People are saying "it's a business" like they didn't know. Just about everyone here said ok to playing Club soccer so the kids would get away from the AYSO model, be in more serious, focused and intense atmospheres with better coaching, players, teams and competition. That ideal is what has fueled Club soccer and ECNL for years.
> 
> Now what if US Soccer comes in, ups the stakes a bit and says, "Stop pretending you are serious about developing and develop. Practice is now 4 days a week. The game and travel schedule is pared down and you will focus solely on this sport at this level. Oh yeah, we also want to have the Academy teams be at no costs to the players so the differentiators are now talent, desire, focus and drive and not how rich the parents are. Now let's go!".
> 
> So what are you doubters really mad about?


No cost, fully subsidized?  Have you read the thread?

The top players are already training 4 days a week.  2 days with their club, 1 day speed and strength training, and 1 additional day on the ball.

I spoke to a girls DA/ECNL coach and was told, 1 of the 4 days of academy will be film sessions.


----------



## C.A.M.

Silky Johnston said:


> I can only speak for myself . I am not mad but why does everyone pretend its about something other than what it really is? Have you ever heard this is a business from any club? Have you heard to get good you need to practice 4 times a week and we should absorb some of the cost? This system is broken we all know it some say something about it and then  they are labeled winers complainers negative not loyal selfish whatever suits the case. I have been saying the same thing for years this is nothing new the only good part is US soccer is now saying the way you have been doing this since u8 is wrong. The guys we have let into our clique the same guys that have been shorting you all this time the guys who have continually put themselves aND the success of their pocketbooks in front of what your kid truly needs to have a chance in this sport they r ok  now dont worry we will watch them feel better it will be cheaper for you.. I don't get it ...not mad just wondering why we have all been deceived for so long? Not mad just waiting for answers? I hope you r with a club not a parent. I would love for a club guy to answer those questions. ..



No I am a parent. A parent with a kid in Academy and a kid in Club.

The girls Academy is being set up to eventually mirror the boys Academy. I hope this means the no costs for the player format also.

To me the issue is the girls have ECNL at all and that US Soccer is just now creating the Girls Academy instead of 15 years ago when the Women proved they deserved it.

Some kids aren't meant to play Academy. 4 days a week. Film training. Only playing soccer. It is for the kids who know that this game is what they want and they have the natural abilities to match the desire and focus they have.

I'm sitting with my best friend discussing this. Growing up we were on the swim team and I played water polo. Practice was 5 days a week. We didn't play tons of games, but we practiced all the time. A few tournaments, then league games or meets, playoffs, a few weeks off and start again. We weren't close to being Olympians, but we still worked hard all the time.

I love the Academy format. I raised my kids to have the same outlook on doing what they love and that is soccer. Other kids play for the friends. Both of my kids recently chose teams where they knew absolutely no one and have made a lot of new friends and earned the respect of the coaching staffs.

If your kids are playing to be with certain friends or just want a more varied lifestyle, don't even think about Academy.


----------



## Silky Johnston

C.A.M. said:


> No I am a parent. A parent with a kid in Academy and a kid in Club.
> 
> The girls Academy is being set up to eventually mirror the boys Academy. I hope this means the no costs for the player format also.
> 
> To me the issue is the girls have ECNL at all and that US Soccer is just now creating the Girls Academy instead of 15 years ago when the Women proved they deserved it.
> 
> Some kids aren't meant to play Academy. 4 days a week. Film training. Only playing soccer. It is for the kids who know that this game is what they want and they have the natural abilities to match the desire and focus they have.
> 
> I'm sitting with my best friend discussing this. Growing up we were on the swim team and I played water polo. Practice was 5 days a week. We didn't play tons of games, but we practiced all the time. A few tournaments, then league games or meets, playoffs, a few weeks off and start again. We weren't close to being Olympians, but we still worked hard all the time.
> 
> I love the Academy format. I raised my kids to have the same outlook on doing what they love and that is soccer. Other kids play for the friends. Both of my kids recently chose teams where they knew absolutely no one and have made a lot of new friends and earned the respect of the coaching staffs.
> 
> If your kids are playing to be with certain friends or just want a more varied lifestyle, don't even think about Academy.


Yes I agree with your comments. But like I said I was looking for answers to some specific questions. It isn't whether the Academy system is right or wrong. Also I don't understand your comment:  "the issue is girls having ecnl at all and that US soccer should have done this 15 years ago" I don't understand that part. So I guess my main question to you would be.. Why did it take them so long to do it? I can tell u it didn't take them 15 years to realize there was girls club soccer. So like I said before what gives?


----------



## C.A.M.

Not sure what gives.  We ask the same thing in our household.  To me it has been sexism + capitalism.  The general thought in the States for generations has been women professional sports are slow and boring and those who play them are sexually confused.

Realistically the only women's professional sports league to survive for more than a decade is the WNBA and that is largely due to the financial backing of the NBA. Until recently, soccer hasn't had a league financially stable enough to give a girl who dedicates her sports life to it an end product to justify it if the end line object is to play pro.  Same could be said for the men's game though.  MLS is set up so teams almost can't fail with cost sharing, profit sharing, no relegation or promotion, etc...

I know our "more age mature" family members continue to tell both our kids they should focus on basketball because that is where the long term future is if they were good enough to play pro. If their counterparts at US Soccer feel the same way, it would give insight to why the long flourishing girls side has lacked the Academy.

The other point people don't like to hear is that US Soccer has been experimenting with the Academy on the boys side for quite a while. The current direction started with the big German in charge.


----------



## NoGoal

C.A.M. said:


> Not sure what gives.  We ask the same thing in our household.  To me it has been sexism + capitalism.  The general thought in the States for generations has been women professional sports are slow and boring and those who play them are sexually confused.
> 
> Realistically the only women's professional sports league to survive for more than a decade is the WNBA and that is largely due to the financial backing of the NBA. Until recently, soccer hasn't had a league financially stable enough to give a girl who dedicates her sports life to it an end product to justify it if the end line object is to play pro.  Same could be said for the men's game though.  MLS is set up so teams almost can't fail with cost sharing, profit sharing, no relegation or promotion, etc...
> 
> I know our "more age mature" family members continue to tell both our kids they should focus on basketball because that is where the long term future is if they were good enough to play pro. If their counterparts at US Soccer feel the same way, it would give insight to why the long flourishing girls side has lacked the Academy.
> 
> The other point people don't like to hear is that US Soccer has been experimenting with the Academy on the boys side for quite a while. The current direction started with the big German in charge.


CAM, for women the best pro sport to play with an opportunity to make millions are individual sports; like tennis and golf.


----------



## C.A.M.

NoGoal said:


> CAM, for women the best pro sport to play with an opportunity to make millions are individual sports; like tennis and golf.


True


----------



## Jason Bourne

This is my first posting on this highly charged subject.  I have read through many of the posts, and found great discussion points.  From my perspective, I feel extremely fortunate to have two daughters gone through the ECNL since its inception.  With my youngest daughter finishing her travel soccer career this year (2016/17) as a U18 player.  If there is one thing I have learned about travel soccer is that coaches/d.o.c.'s/and managers; nothing in this crazy world of futbol/soccer is static.  It is always evolving, and personalities between top soccer leaders can clearly be at odds with one another due to a multitude of reasons:  1) Money, 2) Control (i.e. Rules), 3) Direction, 4) Philosophy, and oh, yes.... 5) Money.

After putting some analysis on each of these categories, it becomes rather obvious to me that these two (2) sanctioning bodies (ECNL vs U.S. Soccer) have very little in common.....even the game itself, hence so much controversy over the matter.   IMO, U.S. Soccer is on the losing end of this battle because of what the ECNL has been able to accomplish for the masses of very highly talented female athletes throughout the country, and did so with a strong female-athlete-centric basis in a relatively short timeframe.  The ECNL female athletes that I know love the ENCL formula.  College coaches love the one-stop shop to find talent and most have limited budget and resources to do their jobs well at recruiting.  Put yourself in their arena for a second (as a college soccer scout);  your job is on the line everyday to put together a successful soccer program by finding the best talent for your furthered success which in hundreds, if not thousands of instances (players) have nothing to do with U.S. Soccer WNT.  Their mission is the match their program with the right players within an academic institution, and nothing to do with Carson City, CA National Training Centers.   In the end, I think the ECNL has, and will continue to put the right talent in front of the right college coaches, with the right numbers and female-centric environment to be successful.   It seems like it has and will continue to be a win-win scenario. 

And if you think that just because the DA may have worked for the guys, you better think again.  For the better part of a couple of hours, I had the privilege of listening to Anson Dorance from UNC talk about the differences between female and male athletes in team sports, and to put is mildly, the differences are "tectonic" and I was blown away by the level of his experience, frustration, and due diligence that this man went through to understand what it truly takes to coach female championship teams.  He clearly sees both sides of this controversy (and is experienced on both sides, too), and his interview speaks volumes on the subject.  I think I read it on Top Drawer Soccer.

My prediction is that we will see U.S. Soccer blink before ECNL after they wake up to the realization that the ECNL already does what they are trying to upend.  Two words:  Mallory Pugh............and many more to follow that are directly from the ECNL.  Open to any and all comments.


----------



## NoGoal

Jason Bourne said:


> This is my first posting on this highly charged subject.  I have read through many of the posts, and found great discussion points.  From my perspective, I feel extremely fortunate to have two daughters gone through the ECNL since its inception.  With my youngest daughter finishing her travel soccer career this year (2016/17) as a U18 player.  If there is one thing I have learned about travel soccer is that coaches/d.o.c.'s/and managers; nothing in this crazy world of futbol/soccer is static.  It is always evolving, and personalities between top soccer leaders can clearly be at odds with one another due to a multitude of reasons:  1) Money, 2) Control (i.e. Rules), 3) Direction, 4) Philosophy, and oh, yes.... 5) Money.
> 
> After putting some analysis on each of these categories, it becomes rather obvious to me that these two (2) sanctioning bodies (ECNL vs U.S. Soccer) have very little in common.....even the game itself, hence so much controversy over the matter.   IMO, U.S. Soccer is on the losing end of this battle because of what the ECNL has been able to accomplish for the masses of very highly talented female athletes throughout the country, and did so with a strong female-athlete-centric basis in a relatively short timeframe.  The ECNL female athletes that I know love the ENCL formula.  College coaches love the one-stop shop to find talent and most have limited budget and resources to do their jobs well at recruiting.  Put yourself in their arena for a second (as a college soccer scout);  your job is on the line everyday to put together a successful soccer program by finding the best talent for your furthered success which in hundreds, if not thousands of instances (players) have nothing to do with U.S. Soccer WNT.  Their mission is the match their program with the right players within an academic institution, and nothing to do with Carson City, CA National Training Centers.   In the end, I think the ECNL has, and will continue to put the right talent in front of the right college coaches, with the right numbers and female-centric environment to be successful.   It seems like it has and will continue to be a win-win scenario.
> 
> And if you think that just because the DA may have worked for the guys, you better think again.  For the better part of a couple of hours, I had the privilege of listening to Anson Dorance from UNC talk about the differences between female and male athletes in team sports, and to put is mildly, the differences are "tectonic" and I was blown away by the level of his experience, frustration, and due diligence that this man went through to understand what it truly takes to coach female championship teams.  He clearly sees both sides of this controversy (and is experienced on both sides, too), and his interview speaks volumes on the subject.  I think I read it on Top Drawer Soccer.
> 
> My prediction is that we will see U.S. Soccer blink before ECNL after they wake up to the realization that the ECNL already does what they are trying to upend.  Two words:  Mallory Pugh............and many more to follow that are directly from the ECNL.  Open to any and all comments.


Here we go again!


----------



## C.A.M.

Jason Bourne said:


> This is my first posting on this highly charged subject.  I have read through many of the posts, and found great discussion points.  From my perspective, I feel extremely fortunate to have two daughters gone through the ECNL since its inception.  With my youngest daughter finishing her travel soccer career this year (2016/17) as a U18 player.  If there is one thing I have learned about travel soccer is that coaches/d.o.c.'s/and managers; nothing in this crazy world of futbol/soccer is static.  It is always evolving, and personalities between top soccer leaders can clearly be at odds with one another due to a multitude of reasons:  1) Money, 2) Control (i.e. Rules), 3) Direction, 4) Philosophy, and oh, yes.... 5) Money.


Hey Jason. That is a very well written posts. I'm not going to argue you point by point or disparage you. I just feel as if you showed a short sighted view of the ECNL vs DA argument.

Of course the majority of the players loved the ECNL format. It has been the only real top flight soccer for girls in the last two decades. Same for the college coaches who have a one stop shot for recruitment.  ECNL should be honored for actually paying attention to the female soccer athlete in this country when our Soccer Association / Federation willfully ignored them.

To me the issue is ECNL has become a serious pay to play league. I know parents who will be forking out close to $5k this year for the trips and league and that doesn't include them traveling with the player. That is a barrier to our nations talent pool actually including the best players.   From what I see the training schedules aren't more rigorious and neither are the standards of development each club is being held to for the best interest of the player. It is a more expensive side of Club that doesn't necessarily give an advantage in player development.

The boys and girls DAs don't have to be twin mirrors. US Soccer clearly has recognized that by doubling up the years in the age groups.  They have already eliminated that on the boys side. To me US Soccer is coming into the game late, but not necessarily behind. At this point it is proven our country is a hotbed for this game on the girls side. The best players want to to play at a high level and a women's professional league is actually working.  Now more parents are willing to have their daughter actually dedicate herself to the sport the way gymnasts, dancers and cheerleaders have and go 4 days a week. The female athlete herself now has a future to strive for that can entail playing soccer for a living until her body or mind say no more.

To keep this going we need to tap the best of the best and not just the well off financially.  I personally think if I would have to pay the same price for each league - I want my athlete receiving the more structured and centered development program with less focus on the trips and more on playing high level teams and working on the proper concepts of the game. My hope is the cost of the DA is low limited amounts to free. Like I said - my son has been lucky enough to train  in the DA system and his growth has been tremendous. 

Sadly the politics, egos and power trips will remain in both systems.


----------



## meatsweats

Sounds wonderful CAM. Except where is that $$ going to come from? Pay to play is the American way. And for the girls, it ain't changing soon. All your points sound great, but I can't see any sort of reality, at least for the next 5 years, minimum.

And just to speak on the ECNL teams that my DD has been on, there were at least 2 fully scholarship players and a few partials. Not everyone is paying $5K. Not saying there isn't missed talent, but I don't think it's as large of a population that is being portrayed. Most of those girls have been found. Maybe I'm wrong. But seems that teams are willing to find a way for great talent the make their way on the team, regardless whether it's ECNL, DA, USYS, etc.


----------



## NoGoal

C.A.M. said:


> Hey Jason. That is a very well written posts. I'm not going to argue you point by point or disparage you. I just feel as if you showed a short sighted view of the ECNL vs DA argument.
> 
> Of course the majority of the players loved the ECNL format. It has been the only real top flight soccer for girls in the last two decades. Same for the college coaches who have a one stop shot for recruitment.  ECNL should be honored for actually paying attention to the female soccer athlete in this country when our Soccer Association / Federation willfully ignored them.
> 
> To me the issue is ECNL has become a serious pay to play league. I know parents who will be forking out close to $5k this year for the trips and league and that doesn't include them traveling with the player. That is a barrier to our nations talent pool actually including the best players.   From what I see the training schedules aren't more rigorious and neither are the standards of development each club is being held to for the best interest of the player. It is a more expensive side of Club that doesn't necessarily give an advantage in player development.
> 
> The boys and girls DAs don't have to be twin mirrors. US Soccer clearly has recognized that by doubling up the years in the age groups.  They have already eliminated that on the boys side. To me US Soccer is coming into the game late, but not necessarily behind. At this point it is proven our country is a hotbed for this game on the girls side. The best players want to to play at a high level and a women's professional league is actually working.  Now more parents are willing to have their daughter actually dedicate herself to the sport the way gymnasts, dancers and cheerleaders have and go 4 days a week. The female athlete herself now has a future to strive for that can entail playing soccer for a living until her body or mind say no more.
> 
> To keep this going we need to tap the best of the best and not just the well off financially.  I personally think if I would have to pay the same price for each league - I want my athlete receiving the more structured and centered development program with less focus on the trips and more on playing high level teams and working on the proper concepts of the game. My hope is the cost of the DA is low limited amounts to free. Like I said - my son has been lucky enough to train  in the DA system and his growth has been tremendous.
> 
> Sadly the politics, egos and power trips will remain in both systems.


How is the NWSL a successful league, when the US Soccer Federation, Canadian Soccer Federation and Mexican Soccer Federation are paying their women national team players salaries? Eliminate the subsidy and probably a 3rd US womens soccer league folds.  Fact, US Soccer only subsidies the Sr WNT, so the US Womens National Team remains dominant or on top of the ladder.  If they didn't who knows what would happen to the womens soccer program.

I also agree with meats, I know of many teams, including ECNL teams who scholarship or provides discounted club fees for the families who need financial assistance.


----------



## Glen

meatsweats said:


> Sounds wonderful CAM. Except where is that $$ going to come from? Pay to play is the American way. And for the girls, it ain't changing soon. All your points sound great, but I can't see any sort of reality, at least for the next 5 years, minimum.
> 
> And just to speak on the ECNL teams that my DD has been on, there were at least 2 fully scholarship players and a few partials. Not everyone is paying $5K. Not saying there isn't missed talent, but I don't think it's as large of a population that is being portrayed. Most of those girls have been found. Maybe I'm wrong. But seems that teams are willing to find a way for great talent the make their way on the team, regardless whether it's ECNL, DA, USYS, etc.


There are scholarships available directly from US Soccer for DA, which are intended to supplement the assistance that clubs already provide.  The US Soccer scholarship website specifically notes the problems with play-to-pay, which is the reason for the extra aid.  And unlike clubs, which essentially take the word of a parent of a talented player that they need the assistance (or they will leave), the scholarships from DA require a formal application process to determine actual need of all DA rostered players (more like college FA). 

It seems like there will be a little bit more money to help out (not a bad thing).  Plus the girls get two extra days of training, which they would otherwise have to pay for (again not a bad thing).   There are trade-offs, like no HS soccer.  But other than the that, this is a re-tweaked ECNL.  Is there a downside, other than no HS soccer and some potential playing time issues for those on the bottom of the roster?  Both are legitimate issues so I don't mean to downplay them.


----------



## Flex

C.A.M. said:


> Hey Jason. That is a very well written posts. I'm not going to argue you point by point or disparage you. I just feel as if you showed a short sighted view of the ECNL vs DA argument.
> 
> Of course the majority of the players loved the ECNL format. It has been the only real top flight soccer for girls in the last two decades. Same for the college coaches who have a one stop shot for recruitment.  ECNL should be honored for actually paying attention to the female soccer athlete in this country when our Soccer Association / Federation willfully ignored them.
> 
> To me the issue is ECNL has become a serious pay to play league. I know parents who will be forking out close to $5k this year for the trips and league and that doesn't include them traveling with the player. That is a barrier to our nations talent pool actually including the best players.   From what I see the training schedules aren't more rigorious and neither are the standards of development each club is being held to for the best interest of the player. It is a more expensive side of Club that doesn't necessarily give an advantage in player development.
> 
> The boys and girls DAs don't have to be twin mirrors. US Soccer clearly has recognized that by doubling up the years in the age groups.  They have already eliminated that on the boys side. To me US Soccer is coming into the game late, but not necessarily behind. At this point it is proven our country is a hotbed for this game on the girls side. The best players want to to play at a high level and a women's professional league is actually working.  Now more parents are willing to have their daughter actually dedicate herself to the sport the way gymnasts, dancers and cheerleaders have and go 4 days a week. The female athlete herself now has a future to strive for that can entail playing soccer for a living until her body or mind say no more.
> 
> To keep this going we need to tap the best of the best and not just the well off financially.  I personally think if I would have to pay the same price for each league - I want my athlete receiving the more structured and centered development program with less focus on the trips and more on playing high level teams and working on the proper concepts of the game. My hope is the cost of the DA is low limited amounts to free. Like I said - my son has been lucky enough to train  in the DA system and his growth has been tremendous.
> 
> Sadly the politics, egos and power trips will remain in both systems.


Do you really think the pay or scholarships if any,coming from US Soccer, will be any different than the scholarships already provided from ECNL teams that go to in most cases to a top player no matter what their parent's income level? Is US Soccer going to go into the inner cities and find the next Marta? Or is that money going to go to a kid in Newport Beach to lure her from an OC Academy team to an LA Academy team? C'mon man. And how are Girls Academy teams going to be funded without any pro teams to back them? Any funding will go to kids already in club soccer to make their money burden lighter. It's not going to expand this sport to lower income levels. ECNL was not perfect, nothing is, but it was successful. If US Soccer was interested in anything other than a power play, they would have worked with ECNL to improve their program and add more worthy clubs. Did I hear correctly that Hope Solo was only making a 75k annual salary for pro ball? The best Keeper in the world making what a truck driver from Wal Mart makes?


----------



## Glen

Flex said:


> Do you really think the pay or scholarships if any,coming from US Soccer, will be any different than the scholarships already provided from ECNL teams that go to in most cases to a top player no matter what their parent's income level? Is US Soccer going to go into the inner cities and find the next Marta? Or is that money going to go to a kid in Newport Beach to lure her from an OC Academy team to an LA Academy team?


Yes, much different if they follow the boy's system.  Check out the average household income of scholarship recipients.      http://www.ussoccerda.com/scholarship-program


----------



## mahrez

Glen said:


> Yes, much different if they follow the boy's system.  Check out the average household income of scholarship recipients.      http://www.ussoccerda.com/scholarship-program


Yes & they require documentation:  tax returns and look at income levels, above a certain level & you can't quailfy for anything.

ECNL or DA costs a club at least 2x more ( better fields, coaches, more games, etc)  vs a regular club team.  Around 5-6k per play x 18 or more and you need a bunch of $ each year. More pay to play is likley to happen with two high end leagues.


----------



## 3JMommy

C.A.M. said:


> Some kids aren't meant to play Academy. 4 days a week. Film training. Only playing soccer. It is for the kids who know that this game is what they want and they have the natural abilities to match the desire and focus they have.


This is so true, but unfortunately there are not likely over 5000 girls per year who actually have these qualities, though I do believe that there are likely over 5000 sets of pushy parents who keep telling them their girls that they are good enough and driven enough that they "should" be placed on the DA teams. As a result, you will have full 23 girl rosters on these teams with the majority inappropriately placed there, and at risk for burnout that may not have happened otherwise.

One of the key differences b/n ECNL and DA, is that being rostered on ECNL does not lock you in to that team only. Many can be playing on an EGSL team and occasionally be asked to play with ECNL team.


----------



## meatsweats

Glen said:


> There are scholarships available directly from US Soccer for DA, which are intended to supplement the assistance that clubs already provide.  The US Soccer scholarship website specifically notes the problems with play-to-pay, which is the reason for the extra aid.  And unlike clubs, which essentially take the word of a parent of a talented player that they need the assistance (or they will leave), the scholarships from DA require a formal application process to determine actual need of all DA rostered players (more like college FA).
> 
> It seems like there will be a little bit more money to help out (not a bad thing).  Plus the girls get two extra days of training, which they would otherwise have to pay for (again not a bad thing).   There are trade-offs, like no HS soccer.  But other than the that, this is a re-tweaked ECNL.  Is there a downside, other than no HS soccer and some potential playing time issues for those on the bottom of the roster?  Both are legitimate issues so I don't mean to downplay them.


Correct. And yes, those are very legitimate issues for most of the players, GAME playing time and HS soccer. 

And yes, you are correct again in that USSF is reportedly going to offer some scholarship money, but only to the first 25 clubs accepted into DA. $1.49M per USSF (link below). Correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't benefit the other 50 clubs (700+ players) that were later accepted. Unless, of course, more money is coming. Am I missing something? Share away. I hope I am.

http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2016/06/30/19/42/160630-development-academy-us-soccer-announces-first-25-clubs-for-girls-development-academy

"These first 25 clubs have a total of 119 staff and coaches that hold a U.S. Soccer A or B Coaching License, and includes 91 coaches who are employed on a fulltime basis.  To date, these clubs have produced 307 players for U.S. Soccer’s National Teams (youth and senior) as well as 84 professional soccer players. In addition, this group will be providing 276 full scholarships with a total of $1.49 million of scholarship funds being contributed. "


----------



## NoGoal

meatsweats said:


> Correct. And yes, those are very legitimate issues for most of the players, GAME playing time and HS soccer.
> 
> And yes, you are correct again in that USSF is reportedly going to offer some scholarship money, but only to the first 25 clubs accepted into DA. $1.49M per USSF (link below). Correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't benefit the other 50 clubs (700+ players) that were later accepted. Unless, of course, more money is coming. Am I missing something? Share away. I hope I am.
> 
> http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2016/06/30/19/42/160630-development-academy-us-soccer-announces-first-25-clubs-for-girls-development-academy
> 
> "These first 25 clubs have a total of 119 staff and coaches that hold a U.S. Soccer A or B Coaching License, and includes 91 coaches who are employed on a fulltime basis.  To date, these clubs have produced 307 players for U.S. Soccer’s National Teams (youth and senior) as well as 84 professional soccer players. In addition, this group will be providing 276 full scholarships with a total of $1.49 million of scholarship funds being contributed. "


if only awarded to the 1st 25 DA clubs that equals 3.5 scholarships per team (3 teams per club).  If US Soccer is going to divide the 276 full scholarships to all 70+ DA clubs.  That is about 1.33 full scholarship per team, lol!  The net net, it's still PAY to PLAY!

Thank the lord, my DD is out of club soccer after this season and I've paid my DD's last club and travel soccer fees.


----------



## Glen

meatsweats said:


> Correct. And yes, those are very legitimate issues for most of the players, GAME playing time and HS soccer.
> 
> And yes, you are correct again in that USSF is reportedly going to offer some scholarship money, but only to the first 25 clubs accepted into DA. $1.49M per USSF (link below). Correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't benefit the other 50 clubs (700+ players) that were later accepted. Unless, of course, more money is coming. Am I missing something? Share away. I hope I am.
> 
> http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2016/06/30/19/42/160630-development-academy-us-soccer-announces-first-25-clubs-for-girls-development-academy
> 
> "These first 25 clubs have a total of 119 staff and coaches that hold a U.S. Soccer A or B Coaching License, and includes 91 coaches who are employed on a fulltime basis.  To date, these clubs have produced 307 players for U.S. Soccer’s National Teams (youth and senior) as well as 84 professional soccer players. In addition, this group will be providing 276 full scholarships with a total of $1.49 million of scholarship funds being contributed. "


That's a reference to the clubs' commitment to providing the scholarships.  As  noted by others, most do this in some form already.  As part of the application, the clubs had to make a specific commitment (locking them in).  That's separate than the scholarships provided directly from US Soccer.  You should read the subsequent press releases announcing the additional clubs - it shows scholarship numbers and funds for those clubs too.

You can find the DA application here:  https://ussoccer.app.box.com/v/girlsacademyapplication  You'll see on page 9 the two questions they ask that get the information for the "276 full scholarships with a total of $1.49 million of scholarship funds being contributed" for the first 25.  The average scholarship per DA team are even higher for the clubs added after the first 25.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Glen said:


> That's a reference to the clubs' commitment to providing the scholarships.  As already noted, most clubs do this in some form already.  As part of the application, the clubs had to tell US Soccer how many scholarships the club would devote the program (trying to lock them in).  So the first 25 clubs are giving a little over 3 scholarships per DA team.  The clubs added on after the first 25 clubs also appear to have made even larger scholarship commitments.  You should read those press releases too.
> 
> That's totally separate from the scholarships provided directly from US Soccer.


So what you are saying is US soccer is going to provide enough money to make it cost less than $3500 per player?  Or are the scholarships going to be for low income families only?  I ask because what if your little Mia is one of the best players but your family doesn't have a financial "need."  What is to prevent a family from asking to be subsidized?  In college scholarships are allocated by ability not necessarily need.


----------



## Glen

MakeAPlay said:


> So what you are saying is US soccer is going to provide enough money to make it cost less than $3500 per player?  Or are the scholarships going to be for low income families only?  I ask because what if your little Mia is one of the best players but your family doesn't have a financial "need."  What is to prevent a family from asking to be subsidized?  In college scholarships are allocated by ability not necessarily need.


Scholarships from US soccer are based on need for those already admitted to the DA.  So the basic threshold for "talent" is making the roster.  Then it goes strictly by need.  These scholarships are more geared toward the travel expenses that clubs offering scholarships don't cover.  Clubs scholarships are coaching fees, uniforms, etc.  Those are already fixed costs for the clubs, so throwing a few extra kids into training doesn't actually cost clubs that much. 

On the other hand, scholarships from the clubs don't appear to be limited by need.  It would be nice if US Soccer made that part of the mandate, because I don't think there is anything preventing those scholarships being used, as they are now by clubs (whether ECNL or not), on wealthier families with a stud.  It's a shame because it would a positive way in which US Soccer could exercise some of that power over all the DA clubs.

As for college, I get the point.  But college is strictly about winning.  This is suppose to be about development.  If you want to bring in a larger pool for development, you don't give the incentives to those already in the pool.


----------



## Flex

Glen said:


> Scholarships from US soccer are based on need for those already admitted to the DA.  So the basic threshold for "talent" is making the roster.  Then it goes strictly by need.  These scholarships are more geared toward the travel expenses that clubs offering scholarships don't cover.  Clubs scholarships are coaching fees, uniforms, etc.  Those are already fixed costs for the clubs, so throwing a few extra kids into training doesn't actually cost clubs that much.
> 
> On the other hand, scholarships from the clubs don't appear to be limited by need.  It would be nice if US Soccer made that part of the mandate, because I don't think there is anything preventing those scholarships being used, as they are now by clubs (whether ECNL or not), on wealthier families with a stud.  It's a shame because it would a positive way in which US Soccer could exercise some of that power over all the DA clubs.
> 
> As for college, I get the point.  But college is strictly about winning.  This is suppose to be about development.  If you want to bring in a larger pool for development, you don't give the incentives to those already in the pool.


I'm still waiting and curious to know how US Soccer is going to fund these teams. It was said in an earlier post  that the calculation comes out to 1-3 scholarships per team. If thats the case, DA should not sell itself on that benefit


----------



## C.A.M.

Look I don't have all the same information others do on the cost. I am glad someone came up with the link to show how US Soccer plans to offer scholarships.

Like those who have experience with ECNL, I have the experience with the DA. I am a believer because the level of focus is different for the children, coaches and parents.  The atmosphere is different also because the parents understand it is a privilege to be on these teams and shut their mouths. 

Now the two DAs we have been involved with are fully scholarshipped for the players. The club side generates the money for this to happen along with US Soccer funds and generous benefactors. He is a 2006 and has practiced 3 days a week for the last 2 years. The extra 1.5 hours in a detailed, high intensity, focused training session has fueled his growth. At his present DA he is playing up a year so practice is 4 days since they are older. The coaches are very high level and played professional soccer and aren't really concerned about winning and losing per se. They are interested in the players ability to grasp the concepts given to them in practice, and goals given to them in the pregame.  It is true development for the purpose of the players to grow.

To put it simple - my daughter hasn't had the full complement of a system like that and I haven't seen one out there for them ECNL included.


----------



## meatsweats

Glen said:


> That's a reference to the clubs' commitment to providing the scholarships.  As  noted by others, most do this in some form already.  As part of the application, the clubs had to make a specific commitment (locking them in).  That's separate than the scholarships provided directly from US Soccer.  You should read the subsequent press releases announcing the additional clubs - it shows scholarship numbers and funds for those clubs too.
> 
> You can find the DA application here:  https://ussoccer.app.box.com/v/girlsacademyapplication  You'll see on page 9 the two questions they ask that get the information for the "276 full scholarships with a total of $1.49 million of scholarship funds being contributed" for the first 25.  The average scholarship per DA team are even higher for the clubs added after the first 25.


Please provide the links that say what you mention about the money and/or scholarships USSF plans to offer or contribute to the "Girls DA".  It would be helpful to the rest of us. I have pulled up all the announcements from USSF and additional clubs added, and none of them say anything about specific money for scholarships that will be given by USSF to Girls DA.  Maybe I missed it. It would be awesome to see it in writing.

If the $ commitment locked in the applying clubs, then someone is going to pay and my guess is that it's us parents. So we are right where we started from. New league, new name, new bossman, new rules, same story.

In my research, I read an article that I found interesting. 

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/67785/girls-development-academy-promises-to-be-less-expe.html

*April Heinrichs, US Soccer Technical Director interview. 

Mike Woitalla (socceramerica.com) - "*The other big difference compared to the ECNL or U.S. Youth Soccer leagues is that the GDA will ban players from participating in high school ball. That, Heinrichs said, will only affect “1 percent” of the players in girls youth soccer. And she expects players with college and national team ambitions to be OK with skipping high school ball."

Funny how April thinks girls aspiring to play college won't care about skipping HS. Yeah, because out of 3-4000+ players in the DA, less than 1% will make the actual USWNT.


----------



## NoGoal

C.A.M. said:


> Look I don't have all the same information others do on the cost. I am glad someone came up with the link to show how US Soccer plans to offer scholarships.
> 
> Like those who have experience with ECNL, I have the experience with the DA. I am a believer because the level of focus is different for the children, coaches and parents.  The atmosphere is different also because the parents understand it is a privilege to be on these teams and shut their mouths.
> 
> Now the two DAs we have been involved with are fully scholarshipped for the players. The club side generates the money for this to happen along with US Soccer funds and generous benefactors. He is a 2006 and has practiced 3 days a week for the last 2 years. The extra 1.5 hours in a detailed, high intensity, focused training session has fueled his growth. At his present DA he is playing up a year so practice is 4 days since they are older. The coaches are very high level and played professional soccer and aren't really concerned about winning and losing per se. They are interested in the players ability to grasp the concepts given to them in practice, and goals given to them in the pregame.  It is true development for the purpose of the players to grow.
> 
> To put it simple - my daughter hasn't had the full complement of a system like that and I haven't seen one out there for them ECNL included.


2006 player, is that U12?  Your son just entered the Boys DA system.  I would love to read your experience 4-5 years from now and compare it with what you posted today.  As cliche goes, your still in the honeymoon period.

There are only like 2 Boys DA clubs that are fully funded in SoCal...Galaxy and FC Golden State.   I know a parent on Pats and he told me, it's pay to play and play time isn't parceled out like Girls ECNL.

So the experience you are posting about Boys DA will very based on which clubs are pay to play (which is over 70%) and the other 2 of which are fully funded.  Of course you like Boys DA, because your son probably starts on a fully funded Boys DA club and it's FREE.  The other parents on the team probably bite their tongue as you say, even if their kid is sitting...., because it's FREE!  You would be singing another tone, if you were paying at a Boys DA club and your son was sitting though.


----------



## Glen

meatsweats said:


> Please provide the links that say what you mention about the money and/or scholarships USSF plans to offer or contribute to the "Girls DA".  It would be helpful to the rest of us. I have pulled up all the announcements from USSF and additional clubs added, and none of them say anything about specific money for scholarships that will be given by USSF to Girls DA.  Maybe I missed it. It would be awesome to see it in writing.
> 
> If the $ commitment locked in the applying clubs, then someone is going to pay and my guess is that it's us parents. So we are right where we started from. New league, new name, new bossman, new rules, same story.
> 
> In my research, I read an article that I found interesting.
> 
> http://www.socceramerica.com/article/67785/girls-development-academy-promises-to-be-less-expe.html
> 
> *April Heinrichs, US Soccer Technical Director interview.
> 
> Mike Woitalla (socceramerica.com) - "*The other big difference compared to the ECNL or U.S. Youth Soccer leagues is that the GDA will ban players from participating in high school ball. That, Heinrichs said, will only affect “1 percent” of the players in girls youth soccer. And she expects players with college and national team ambitions to be OK with skipping high school ball."
> 
> Funny how April thinks girls aspiring to play college won't care about skipping HS. Yeah, because out of 3-4000+ players in the DA, less than 1% will make the actual USWNT.


Here's the link to the GDA FAQ page:  http://www.ussoccerda.com/girls-academy-faqs  .  Search for "scholarship program".  There will be a link to the scholarship page:  http://www.ussoccerda.com/scholarship-program


----------



## NoGoal

Glen said:


> Here's the link to the GDA FAQ page:  http://www.ussoccerda.com/girls-academy-faqs  .  Search for "scholarship program".  There will be a link to the scholarship page:  http://www.ussoccerda.com/scholarship-program


They have scholarshipped 1,500 players.  Lets break that down, yes!  Boys DA has been around for a decade, and there are 70 plus Boys DA clubs and 3 teams per club.  US Soccer has scholarshipped about 150 players per year for the last 10 years.  That is about 2 players per DA club on average (less than 1 player per team). Once, you break it down, it's not as impressive as it looks on paper.

Now that doesn't take into account the MLS Boys DA clubs that are fully funded of course.


----------



## meatsweats

Glen said:


> Here's the link to the GDA FAQ page:  http://www.ussoccerda.com/girls-academy-faqs  .  Search for "scholarship program".  There will be a link to the scholarship page:  http://www.ussoccerda.com/scholarship-program


Blah, blah, blah....I've read all these FAQ's. Still, there's no numbers or commitment. It's propaganda. Money has to come from somewhere and as others from the boys DA state, very few clubs are fully funded and free to play. Others are pay to play with 2-3 scholarships, max.

NoGoal is right. Break down the boys DA funding and divide that in half. What are the girls going to be left with, if they're lucky?  Round and round we go. DA boils down to this. Another ECNL type of league (power struggle), 4 mandated practices a week (which we hear from boys clubs, isn't always adhered to), focus on development (ala ECNL, CRL, SCDSL, etc. Ummm. K!), A and B level coaching (eventually - in 5 years is what I'm told), no HS soccer, USSF scouting, College scouting (wait, what's their focus again?). 

Just to be clear, not against DA, just don't feel DA and ECNL competing have our DD's best interests at heart. But get that no one will back down.


----------



## younothat

Development Academy Scholarship Program. This program is designed to assist in travel-related expenses for full-time players registered to U-13 through U-17/18 teams within the Development Academy during the 2016-17 season
https://app.wizehive.com/appform/login/ussoccer2016

http://developmentfund.ussoccer.com/about-the-fund/

Don't confuse these funds for clubs that are not charging academy players club or team fees.

Some boys clubs like Galaxy, Golden State, LAUFA  don't charge academy players club or team fees/dues but don't necessarily cover all the travel expenses either.  This is where the scholarship program comes into to help offset these costs.   Other like Strikers, Pats, Santa Barbra charge academy players club or team fees at a reduced rate and don't cover any travel expenses so again the scholarship program can help.

Requires a large amount of $ per year per team to play in these top leagues and the boys have been subsidized to a large extent by clubs or MLS parent not US soccer for or anything besides travel.

"The Academy strongly believes that no player should face a (financial) barrier to play soccer. Therefore, clubs are encourages to subsidize costs for players in financial need"
http://www.ussoccerda.com/girls-academy-faqs


----------



## Glen

NoGoal said:


> They have scholarshipped 1,500 players.  Lets break that down, yes!  Boys DA has been around for a decade, and there are 70 plus Boys DA clubs and 3 teams per club.  US Soccer has scholarshipped about 150 players per year for the last 10 years.  That is about 2 players per DA club on average (less than 1 player per team). Once, you break it down, it's not as impressive as it looks on paper.
> 
> Now that doesn't take into account the MLS Boys DA clubs that are fully funded of course.


I think your calculation is assuming a player receives a scholarship for only one year.  Most "players" meet the need requirement over multiple years.  The scholarship program started in 2008 and the numbers are through 2015; it has expanded substantially over the last few years.  At any rate, if we are getting about 5 or 10% more girls playing soccer at high level that were limited by the fees, I think that is a good thing.  I'm not looking for free soccer for everyone.

The diversity numbers in women soccer are pretty atrocious.  Any access to more money for girls that are disadvantaged is a good thing in my book.  I wish the clubs would allocate their club scholarships the same way.


----------



## NoGoal

Glen said:


> I think your calculation is assuming a player receives a scholarship for only one year.  Most "players" meet the need requirement over multiple years.  The scholarship program started in 2008 and the numbers are through 2015; it has expanded substantially over the last few years.  At any rate, if we are getting about 5 or 10% more girls playing soccer at high level that were limited by the fees, I think that is a good thing.  I'm not looking for free soccer for everyone.
> 
> The diversity numbers in women soccer are pretty atrocious.  Any access to more money for girls that are disadvantaged is a good thing in my book.  I wish the clubs would allocate there club scholarships the same way.


I agree club scholarship money should NOT be allocated to the best player on a team who happens to also have a combined family income over 100K for a family of 4.  It should be granted to a family with a true financial need and towards a player the club projects if developed properly can become an impact player.


----------



## C.A.M.

NoGoal said:


> 2006 player, is that U12?  Your son just entered the Boys DA system.  I would love to read your experience 4-5 years from now and compare it with what you posted today.  As cliche goes, your still in the honeymoon period.
> 
> There are only like 2 Boys DA clubs that are fully funded in SoCal...Galaxy and FC Golden State.   I know a parent on Pats and he told me, it's pay to play and play time isn't parceled out like Girls ECNL.
> 
> So the experience you are posting about Boys DA will very based on which clubs are pay to play (which is over 70%) and the other 2 of which are fully funded.  Of course you like Boys DA, because your son probably starts on a fully funded Boys DA club and it's FREE.  The other parents on the team probably bite their tongue as you say, even if their kid is sitting...., because it's FREE!  You would be singing another tone, if you were paying at a Boys DA club and your son was sitting though.


You assume a lot.  My boy was in the DA System through PDA. Started as a club player / PDA trainee and practiced only with the PDA team. Basically the academy for the youngers.  We paid full price for the club. After they DEVELOPED him for 2 seasons he was moved to the PDA team.  Coaching philosophy was consistent through the academy. We moved on due to a lot of coaching, personnel change.

We would be at the fields for 4 hours a night since my girls club practiced at the same fields and had a later practice time.  I made it a point to watch the older boys DA practice to see what my boy would have to look forward to. In fact, the girls program is very large and successful and when I say I am a believer in the DA development philosophy, it's because I watched both side by side for a few years.

So no he wasn't a starter and wasn't even completely in the system because he wasn't good enough at first. They DEVELOPED him because he had the drive, focus, desire and heart to work his way into a better player. To be upfront, they had no reason to keep him because they sure the hell didn't need him. They had plenty of talent already.

When speaking of fully funded DAs I know LA Galaxy, FC Golden State, TFA LA, Real So Cal, LAFC, Albion and one I'm not at liberty to name, fully fund the players on the top team (Academy and/or Pre Academy). I know at 3 of those I named, the younger ages team rosters are smaller (14-15) with two keepers once you reach U12 so everyone gets playtime and adequate training. Nothing like these girls squads being formed with 18-22 players. That's an issue with these clubs hoarding talent on the girls side.

I'm not here to fight. I know a lot of you are extra pro ECNL.  That's all the girls have had and it has done it's job. That doesn't mean it hasn't gotten away from what we need for the players to get the best development. I personally feel the DA philosophy is better for player development. The coaches have high expectations for the players and hold them accountable. The players have high expectations for themselves and are working to improve.

Parents aren't buddying up with the coaches for more play time when it's not deserved and having kids on a top team roster that  shouldn't be. It is more selective and the focus at practice from the kids is 200% higher. Couple that with a no tolerance rule for coaches so they teach through positivity, motivation, discipline and not fear and negativity.

I teach my kids to work smart, work hard and have fun. We all know when they hit the older ages this gets ULTRA SERIOUS.  Any kid playing DA or top level ECNL has to want to do this because they have other options and the dedication level is high. My opinion is DA is structured to get more out of that dedication, while lowering the costs that ECNL has that creates a barrier for players who are good enough, but financially unable to compete. The Girls DA may not be no cost for all girls on the team at first, but that doesn't mean it can't or won't be.


----------



## C.A.M.

meatsweats said:


> Please provide the links that say what you mention about the money and/or scholarships USSF plans to offer or contribute to the "Girls DA".  It would be helpful to the rest of us. I have pulled up all the announcements from USSF and additional clubs added, and none of them say anything about specific money for scholarships that will be given by USSF to Girls DA.  Maybe I missed it. It would be awesome to see it in writing.
> 
> If the $ commitment locked in the applying clubs, then someone is going to pay and my guess is that it's us parents. So we are right where we started from. New league, new name, new bossman, new rules, same story.
> 
> In my research, I read an article that I found interesting.
> 
> http://www.socceramerica.com/article/67785/girls-development-academy-promises-to-be-less-expe.html
> 
> *April Heinrichs, US Soccer Technical Director interview.
> 
> Mike Woitalla (socceramerica.com) - "*The other big difference compared to the ECNL or U.S. Youth Soccer leagues is that the GDA will ban players from participating in high school ball. That, Heinrichs said, will only affect “1 percent” of the players in girls youth soccer. And she expects players with college and national team ambitions to be OK with skipping high school ball."
> 
> Funny how April thinks girls aspiring to play college won't care about skipping HS. Yeah, because out of 3-4000+ players in the DA, less than 1% will make the actual USWNT.


You know this is a conundrum. As parents all of us who played, played high school. I'm just not sold that it is necessary for the girls soccer. These Southern California girls teams are basically high level club teams. I know you don't make these top high school teams if you don't play on the top teams on top clubs. Almost all the coaches are also club coaches. I just see a lot of violence and injuries. I know my girl has said she wants to play it, but if she had a chance to be on a high level DA she would choose that. My son plans in playing Academy and isn't expecting to play high school anyways.

Btw, I just asked my daughter what she would want. She is in 8th grade and said "Academy! Screw High School. My teammates said it too.".
So do we want them to play high school more than they want it?  And yes she knows it's 4 days a week.


----------



## C.A.M.

meatsweats said:


> Blah, blah, blah....I've read all these FAQ's. Still, there's no numbers or commitment. It's propaganda. Money has to come from somewhere and as others from the boys DA state, very few clubs are fully funded and free to play. Others are pay to play with 2-3 scholarships, max.
> 
> NoGoal is right. Break down the boys DA funding and divide that in half. What are the girls going to be left with, if they're lucky?  Round and round we go. DA boils down to this. Another ECNL type of league (power struggle), 4 mandated practices a week (which we hear from boys clubs, isn't always adhered to), focus on development (ala ECNL, CRL, SCDSL, etc. Ummm. K!), A and B level coaching (eventually - in 5 years is what I'm told), no HS soccer, USSF scouting, College scouting (wait, what's their focus again?).
> 
> Just to be clear, not against DA, just don't feel DA and ECNL competing have our DD's best interests at heart. But get that no one will back down.


Ok you have a negative attitude towards it. My suggestion is you go watch how these teams practice and work. Find a boys DA (Not named Strikers - Sorry ) and watch them. Check out some games.  Watch Dallas Cup on the Youtube livestreams and watch our DAs really compete with the other youth programs from around the world.

I see how fabulous our WNT is without the same set up and think it would be even better with it.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Glen said:


> Scholarships from US soccer are based on need for those already admitted to the DA.  So the basic threshold for "talent" is making the roster.  Then it goes strictly by need.  These scholarships are more geared toward the travel expenses that clubs offering scholarships don't cover.  Clubs scholarships are coaching fees, uniforms, etc.  Those are already fixed costs for the clubs, so throwing a few extra kids into training doesn't actually cost clubs that much.
> 
> On the other hand, scholarships from the clubs don't appear to be limited by need.  It would be nice if US Soccer made that part of the mandate, because I don't think there is anything preventing those scholarships being used, as they are now by clubs (whether ECNL or not), on wealthier families with a stud.  It's a shame because it would a positive way in which US Soccer could exercise some of that power over all the DA clubs.
> 
> As for college, I get the point.  But college is strictly about winning.  This is suppose to be about development.  If you want to bring in a larger pool for development, you don't give the incentives to those already in the pool.


Thanks for the well thought out response.  I truly hope that they succeed in trying to expand the pool of elite players on the women's side.  My disagreement was never about the goal of  developing more elite players simply with the method in which they are going about it. 

 To me it looks like the costs are going to be the same or maybe a grand less.  And for that the players get to miss high school soccer and train an extra day (or maybe the same in some kids cases) for maybe the hope of being one of the 40-50 kids of their birth year to get called into a YNT camp that year.  Not to mention that  they may not play much every other year due to the dual age band.  Of course the YNT caliber players on the teams only complicate matters for the other players.  Let's say your particular DA club has 5-7 YNT players or more per 2 year age bands (as several old ECNL now ECNL/GDA clubs do).  Those players as youngers are likely better than the non YNT caliber player that might be a year older than them.  This chews up minutes and opportunities to be seen by colleges for that 2nd tier of elite player whose true destiny is to go to a great college, get a great education and go kick butt in a different way.  At this point outside of 2 examples that is the destination for even the top tier elite players too so why try to duplicate the boys system when the overall financial incentive is completely different.

I hear where you are coming from and agree.  I just don't see the point of some of the methods and motives.


----------



## MessiFTW

MakeAPlay said:


> Thanks for the well thought out response.  I truly hope that they succeed in trying to expand the pool of elite players on the women's side.  My disagreement was never about the goal of  developing more elite players simply with the method in which they are going about it.
> 
> To me it looks like the costs are going to be the same or maybe a grand less.  And for that the players get to miss high school soccer and train an extra day (or maybe the same in some kids cases) for maybe the hope of being one of the 40-50 kids of their birth year to get called into a YNT camp that year.  Not to mention that  they may not play much every other year due to the dual age band.  Of course the YNT caliber players on the teams only complicate matters for the other players.  Let's say your particular DA club has 5-7 YNT players or more per 2 year age bands (as several old ECNL now ECNL/GDA clubs do).  Those players as youngers are likely better than the non YNT caliber player that might be a year older than them.  This chews up minutes and opportunities to be seen by colleges for that 2nd tier of elite player whose true destiny is to go to a great college, get a great education and go kick butt in a different way.  At this point outside of 2 examples that is the destination for even the top tier elite players too so why try to duplicate the boys system when the overall financial incentive is completely different.
> 
> I hear where you are coming from and agree.  I just don't see the point of some of the methods and motives.


Old, redundant and obvious post.  Waste of time reading your pointless blather.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MessiFTW said:


> Old, redundant and obvious post.  Waste of time reading your pointless blather.


Why are you wasting your time reading it.  Your kid won't need GDA to work at Wendy's.


----------



## NoGoal

C.A.M. said:


> You assume a lot.  My boy was in the DA System through PDA. Started as a club player / PDA trainee and practiced only with the PDA team. Basically the academy for the youngers.  We paid full price for the club. After they DEVELOPED him for 2 seasons he was moved to the PDA team.  Coaching philosophy was consistent through the academy. We moved on due to a lot of coaching, personnel change.
> 
> We would be at the fields for 4 hours a night since my girls club practiced at the same fields and had a later practice time.  I made it a point to watch the older boys DA practice to see what my boy would have to look forward to. In fact, the girls program is very large and successful and when I say I am a believer in the DA development philosophy, it's because I watched both side by side for a few years.
> 
> So no he wasn't a starter and wasn't even completely in the system because he wasn't good enough at first. They DEVELOPED him because he had the drive, focus, desire and heart to work his way into a better player. To be upfront, they had no reason to keep him because they sure the hell didn't need him. They had plenty of talent already.
> 
> When speaking of fully funded DAs I know LA Galaxy, FC Golden State, TFA LA, Real So Cal, LAFC, Albion and one I'm not at liberty to name, fully fund the players on the top team (Academy and/or Pre Academy). I know at 3 of those I named, the younger ages team rosters are smaller (14-15) with two keepers once you reach U12 so everyone gets playtime and adequate training. Nothing like these girls squads being formed with 18-22 players. That's an issue with these clubs hoarding talent on the girls side.
> 
> I'm not here to fight. I know a lot of you are extra pro ECNL.  That's all the girls have had and it has done it's job. That doesn't mean it hasn't gotten away from what we need for the players to get the best development. I personally feel the DA philosophy is better for player development. The coaches have high expectations for the players and hold them accountable. The players have high expectations for themselves and are working to improve.
> 
> Parents aren't buddying up with the coaches for more play time when it's not deserved and having kids on a top team roster that  shouldn't be. It is more selective and the focus at practice from the kids is 200% higher. Couple that with a no tolerance rule for coaches so they teach through positivity, motivation, discipline and not fear and negativity.
> 
> I teach my kids to work smart, work hard and have fun. We all know when they hit the older ages this gets ULTRA SERIOUS.  Any kid playing DA or top level ECNL has to want to do this because they have other options and the dedication level is high. My opinion is DA is structured to get more out of that dedication, while lowering the costs that ECNL has that creates a barrier for players who are good enough, but financially unable to compete. The Girls DA may not be no cost for all girls on the team at first, but that doesn't mean it can't or won't be.


Simply by assuming, you've spilled your beans and we know more about you....haha!  It also doesn't change the fact your son is still a ulittle player and entering the inaugural year for the Boys U12 developement academy system.  BTW, of course you were paying a club fee for your son prior to U12, last I checked there isn't a U10/11 Boys DA team!  It also doesn't change the fact your pro BOYS DA, because your son's DA club is FREE.  Like I posted prior, you would be singing a different tone, if you were paying at a Boys DA club and he was sitting.

It's good to know your kids previously played for PDA, because everyone in SoCal already knows PDA is a great club.....especially the girls side.   So, please don't post PDA is now great because of Girls DA.   They were great prior to Girls DA and well before ECNL ever came to existance.  The club will continue pumping out the same amount of college committments and it doesn't matter if the league is the USYS Championship series, USYS National League, ECNL or DA Girls.  The league could be named these girls suck club soccer and college coaches will still recruit players from the club.... this also applies to Surf, Blues, Slammers, RSC, Eagles, WCFC, Beach and Legends in SoCal!

Lastly, what is your DD U10? Lol


----------



## NoGoal

C.A.M. said:


> Ok you have a negative attitude towards it. My suggestion is you go watch how these teams practice and work. Find a boys DA (Not named Strikers - Sorry ) and watch them. Check out some games.  Watch Dallas Cup on the Youtube livestreams and watch our DAs really compete with the other youth programs from around the world.
> 
> I see how fabulous our WNT is without the same set up and think it would be even better with it.


I love it a Ulittle parent telling us uolder parents what's right, LMAO!


----------



## meatsweats

C.A.M. said:


> You know this is a conundrum. As parents all of us who played, played high school. I'm just not sold that it is necessary for the girls soccer. These Southern California girls teams are basically high level club teams. I know you don't make these top high school teams if you don't play on the top teams on top clubs. Almost all the coaches are also club coaches. I just see a lot of violence and injuries. I know my girl has said she wants to play it, but if she had a chance to be on a high level DA she would choose that. My son plans in playing Academy and isn't expecting to play high school anyways.
> 
> Btw, I just asked my daughter what she would want. She is in 8th grade and said "Academy! Screw High School. My teammates said it too.".
> So do we want them to play high school more than they want it?  And yes she knows it's 4 days a week.


One, your daughter is in 8th grade. Talk to me in a few years. Two, not sure what High School she will attend, but if they are sports oriented, it's a big deal!! Three, I'm not sure what club or team she plays for, but my DD is on a very high level ECNL team and all the incoming freshman are dying for HS season to start. These are girls that will all have very good chances to play on DA teams, no doubt, but they aren't looking forward to DA. Nope. They are looking forward to High School!


----------



## C.A.M.

NoGoal said:


> Simply by assuming, you've spilled your beans and we know more about you....haha!  It also doesn't change the fact your son is still a ulittle player and entering the inaugural year for the Boys U12 developement academy system.  BTW, of course you were paying a club fee for your son prior to U12, last I checked there isn't a U10/11 Boys DA team!  It also doesn't change the fact your pro BOYS DA, because your son's DA club is FREE.  Like I posted prior, you would be singing a different tone, if you were paying at a Boys DA club and he was sitting.
> 
> It's good to know your kids previously played for PDA, because everyone in SoCal already knows PDA is a great club.....especially the girls side.   So, please don't post PDA is now great because of Girls DA.   They were great prior to Girls DA and well before ECNL ever came to existance.  The club will continue pumping out the same amount of college committments and it doesn't matter if the league is the USYS Championship series, USYS National League, ECNL or DA Girls.  The league could be named these girls suck club soccer and college coaches will still recruit players from the club.... this also applies to Surf, Blues, Slammers, RSC, Eagles, WCFC, Beach and Legends in SoCal!
> 
> Lastly, what is your DD U10? Lol



my point was the DA develops. My son wasn't a great player, but was a great find.  Those are the kids the DA works for because these clubs will develop younger. I'm proud of my boys hard work and progression through the system and love to tell his story. It's inspiring, so you won't shame me with you little words.

Also if you read , he played club and only practiced PDA. Point being, his development was always at that level and the games with the club gave him his own team to grow on.  Like I said, he was surplus talent and kid in front of him was and is a stud. They were upfront with our family. My son at 7.5 said I don't care where I play at this point, I need real training.  

Some of you are trying to paint this DA thing as an evil empire and I'm trying to tell you that it is different. The lower age groups these DA train our kids, the better off they are as soccer players.  Are they going to always seek the best talent for their programs? Of course. The new coach didn't favor my son much. It's okay. They made him good enough I could find a better situation for him to continue growing and developing.  His new DA (he plays up a year now) loves him. I have spoken to lots of parents of olders and the kids. It's a journey. Not everyone makes it. Your kid will still be a better person by going through it.

Great thing for you doubters is if a DA comes for your girls, you can turn it down. Move ahead on your chosen path. Just don't hate when you see how it works.  The ECNL option isn't leaving anytime soon and you can enjoy that ride.


----------



## C.A.M.

NoGoal said:


> I love it a Ulittle parent telling us uolder parents what's right, LMAO!


Aren't you the one saying you don't have experience in the DA system? We have been blessed to have our son get that training AND be able to concurrently watch/compare it to what our daughter has received at a top club AND compare it to the top club she was at previously.

I'm starting to see some sore losers in here with the personal attacks. Stick to the topic. We don't know each other and if we meet it would be best to be on good terms. This is suppose to be a place to help each other on the journey.


----------



## NoGoal

C.A.M. said:


> Aren't you the one saying you don't have experience in the DA system? We have been blessed to have our son get that training AND be able to concurrently watch/compare it to what our daughter has received at a top club AND compare it to the top club she was at previously.
> 
> I'm starting to see some sore losers in here with the personal attacks. Stick to the topic. We don't know each other and if we meet it would be best to be on good terms. This is suppose to be a place to help each other on the journey.


Lol, nobody has experience with girls DA?  Not me, not you or anybody else in the entire world!  Last I checked it starts fall of 2017!

Sore losers?  lmao, far from it brotha! My DD is at her official visit this weekend.  BTW, come here,  no closer, closer.....my DD developed more as a player by practicing on her own then at club practice!

Read the article how Christine Press mom (who never played soccer) helped her with drills.  Alex Morgan dad help her with her shooting 2 hours a day every day when younger.


----------



## NoGoal

C.A.M. said:


> Aren't you the one saying you don't have experience in the DA system? We have been blessed to have our son get that training AND be able to concurrently watch/compare it to what our daughter has received at a top club AND compare it to the top club she was at previously.
> 
> I'm starting to see some sore losers in here with the personal attacks. Stick to the topic. We don't know each other and if we meet it would be best to be on good terms. This is suppose to be a place to help each other on the journey.


Help with the journey,  your kids journey is in it's infancy, lmao!  Like I posted tell me about Boys DA and Girls DA in 4-5 years from now.


----------



## C.A.M.

meatsweats said:


> One, your daughter is in 8th grade. Talk to me in a few years. Two, not sure what High School she will attend, but if they are sports oriented, it's a big deal!! Three, I'm not what club or team she plays for, but my DD is on a very high level ECNL team and all the incoming freshman are dying for HS season to start. These are girls that will all have very good chances to play on DA teams, no doubt, but they aren't looking forward to DA. Nope. They are looking forward to High School!


It's a top level high school in education and sports. Neither of my kids play with one schoolmate. They chose their teams, not my wife and I. Her friends at school do play soccer, softball, volleyball, etc.... She and her besties played on the same teams when younger and they all love each other, but we all have our journeys.

I said earlier in the thread, the DA system isn't for everyone. It takes a kid with a certain type of focus, desire and dedication level to go along with that talent. I am glad ECNL will stay around and have an option because it will be needed. Not every kid wants it the way DA is giving it. 

My personal ideal situation would be for both my kids to play on DAs and then go to a private high school on an educational scholarship.  My son is down, but my daughter DOES want to go to high school with her friends. Just doesn't care about playing there.


----------



## C.A.M.

NoGoal said:


> Lol, nobody has experience with girls DA?  Not me, not you or anybody else in the entire world!  Last I checked it starts fall of 2017!
> 
> Sore losers?  lmao, far from it brotha! My DD is at her official visit this weekend.  BTW, come here,  no closer, closer.....my DD developed more as a player by practicing on her own then at club practice!
> 
> Read the article how Christine Press mom (who never played soccer) helped her with drills.  Alex Morgan dad help her with her shooting 2 hours a day every day when younger.


Congrats on your girl getting that far!! Stories like that are why I come here.

I understand development happening more outside the program than in it. That is the point Im trying to make. Our girls have been getting shafted.  The outside practice part will always factor into a player going to the next level, but the Boys DA program actually does develop more than what our girls have been given at these extremely high prices.

I'm looking at this as an optimist and expecting the girls side to do the same. US Soccer is serious about the DAs following the program.  I do have experience with it.  The PDAs are trained liked the DA boys. My boy is in another DA team now and it is excellent, including the care level for the kids.

Like I said, I'm not trying to fight here. I just see a lot of skeptics for leaving a system I feel has short changed alot of us even if the great girls like yours still gets her end goal.


----------



## C.A.M.

NoGoal said:


> Help with the journey,  your kids journey is in it's infancy, lmao!  Like I posted tell me about Boys DA and Girls DA in 4-5 years from now.


All she has is 4.5 years left. Been playing for 7. On the downhill side.


----------



## NoGoal

C.A.M. said:


> Congrats on your girl getting that far!! Stories like that are why I come here.
> 
> I understand development happening more outside the program than in it. That is the point Im trying to make. Our girls have been getting shafted.  The outside practice part will always factor into a player going to the next level, but the Boys DA program actually does develop more than what our girls have been given at these extremely high prices.
> 
> I'm looking at this as an optimist and expecting the girls side to do the same. US Soccer is serious about the DAs following the program.  I do have experience with it.  The PDAs are trained liked the DA boys. My boy is in another DA team now and it is excellent, including the care level for the kids.
> 
> Like I said, I'm not trying to fight here. I just see a lot of skeptics for leaving a system I feel has short changed alot of us even if the great girls like yours still gets her end goal.


I hear yeah!  In my personal experience and probably the biggest mistake I did at ulittles was relying on club coaches to develop my DD, since I was paying a fee for their services.  I didn't like how she was being developed and why I moved her from 4 different clubs from U9 to U12.  Then it dawned on my wife and I that our DD was better off training on her own while I helped with her drills.  Just know as you go through the process, a club coach is more concerned developing his entire team and not so much tailoring practice to improve any particular individual.


----------



## C.A.M.

NoGoal said:


> I hear yeah!  In my personal experience and probably the biggest mistake I did at ulittles was relying on club coaches to develop my DD, since I was paying a fee for their services.  I didn't like how she was being developed and why I moved her from 4 different clubs from U9 to U12.  Then it dawned on my wife and I that our DD was better off training on her own while I helped with her drills.  Just know as you go through the process, a club coach is more concerned developing his entire team and not so much tailoring practice to improve any particular individual.


Thanks for that advice.  We learned that lesson the hard way. Aged her up so she skipped U10.  Daughter basically stood around for 60-75 minutes of the 90. I refused to let her digress and paid for single person 1-1.5 hr. privates. My knowledge  wasn't high enough to teach her what she needed.

That's what made me high on the DA program. He was always being pushed at practice 3 days a week and given "homework".  Realized there is something better. Of course, they both still do drills at home.


----------



## Glen

This seems to be a fairly balanced article on how high school soccer is playing out under the BDA.  It may be a little outdated.  http://www.si.com/soccer/2012/09/07/development-academies-high-school

Someone raised the issue of kids on scholarships in high school - a very compelling point.  DA gives exemptions to the "no other league" rule, which helped with this particular issue on the boy's side.  I did see that exemptions are still allowed upon request.  We'll see what adjustments they make going forward.


----------



## espola

Glen said:


> This seems to be a fairly balanced article on how high school soccer is playing out under the BDA.  It may be a little outdated.  http://www.si.com/soccer/2012/09/07/development-academies-high-school
> 
> Someone raised the issue of kids on scholarships in high school - a very compelling point.  DA gives exemptions to the "no other league" rule, which helped with this particular issue on the boy's side.  I did see that exemptions are still allowed upon request.  We'll see what adjustments they make going forward.


Are you suggesting that someone could lose their academic/need high school scholarship if they don't play soccer for the school?


----------



## soccermanifesto

From what I've seen, most kids want to play  high school soccer with their classmates and represent their school.  But on the girls side with very few exceptions, it is about the ugliest brand of soccer imaginable and a recipe for nasty and serious injuries much more so than club,  because you have unskilled players playing with skilled players.  

I've seen YNT players play on horrible HS teams out of position and passing it to unskilled players for the inevitable turnover, high level girls sustain bad year long injuries, goalies crashed into and even kicked in the head seconds after they've secured the ball, and a whole lotta kickball. Again, there are exceptions I can count on with one hand, but it's somewhere between a demolition derby and a hot mess. 

So strictly in terms of development or improving as a player, your player is missing zero by not playing high school ball.


----------



## NoGoal

soccermanifesto said:


> From what I've seen, most kids want to play  high school soccer with their classmates and represent their school.  But on the girls side with very few exceptions, it is about the ugliest brand of soccer imaginable and a recipe for nasty and serious injuries much more so than club,  because you have unskilled players playing with skilled players.
> 
> I've seen YNT players play on horrible HS teams out of position and passing it to unskilled players for the inevitable turnover, high level girls sustain bad year long injuries, goalies crashed into and even kicked in the head seconds after they've secured the ball, and a whole lotta kickball. Again, there are exceptions I can count on with one hand, but it's somewhere between a demolition derby and a hot mess.
> 
> So strictly in terms of development or improving as a player, your player is missing zero by not playing high school ball.


I'm guessing, you haven't seen some college games yet.


----------



## Real Deal

Just reading all this I had to wonder why Make A Play and NoGoal care so much about this topic?  Seems both your girls have moved on and been very successful.  What does the debate matter to you?  ... Unless maybe you work for, or have stock in ECNL?


----------



## NoGoal

Real Deal said:


> Just reading all this I had to wonder why Make A Play and NoGoal care so much about this topic?  Seems both your girls have moved on and been very successful.  What does the debate matter to you?  ... Unless maybe you work for, or have stock in ECNL?


Well my DD hasn't moved on.....she is playing her last year of club soccer.  Also, I like extending threads by playing the devils advocate, makes for juicy reading.


----------



## Ghostwriter

Has anyone supplied a logical reason why there will be a GA besides a power move by US Soccer?  We can rule out pro soccer, we can rule out a realistic path to the USWNT, and we already have existing gaming circuits to get girls in college if that's what they desire.  If anyone has a logical reason for GA please share so far unless I have missed something I haven't read one.


----------



## soccermanifesto

US Soccer wants to control its feeder system and the type of training and style of play that female soccer players receive in this country.

And its a power grab too.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Real Deal said:


> Just reading all this I had to wonder why Make A Play and NoGoal care so much about this topic?  Seems both your girls have moved on and been very successful.  What does the debate matter to you?  ... Unless maybe you work for, or have stock in ECNL?


I am not an ECNL employee nor do I have stock in the ECNL (do they have stock?).  I really don't care that much as my player is in college.  I have been told via PM that people like the activity so I post.  Also I don't like Sweetsplat and his myriad of identities and I think Zoro is out of touch and doesn't really know what D1 soccer is like and I am not one to shy away from calling people out.  Hindsight is 20/20 though so I will withhold my commentary on club soccer.  I have been watching a ton of college games over the last two years and will limit the scope of my commentary to that.

I have tried to give advice based on what I have experienced in my players 9 year club soccer journey.  It has been very successful although there have been many lessons learned along the way.  Her graduating class is the first to have gone from U14-U18 playing entirely within the ECNL platform so I have seen it change along the way.  If people want to gamble with their kid's soccer career and college options it is their prerogative and they are the ones that are going to have to deal with it.  I will keep my advice to myself.


----------



## Glen

I don't think that anyone would be troubled much if ENCL announced:  (1) no showcase fees; (2) no referee fees; (3) making clubs commit to scholarships (at least more than the rather opaque system we have now); (4) required licensing for coaches with assistance to pay for it; (5) access to scholarships for traveling expenses; (6) a day or two more of training for teams; and (7) added technical standards. 

Roster issues for dual age group teams and no high school soccer are the major complaints with GDA.  Not sure if US Soccer pushing for these issues really amounts to a "power play," even if you disagree with them.  Perhaps misguided, but there is some thought put into it.  Interesting thing I read on the GDA Powerpoint, HS soccer is still permitted until 2017-2018 without limitation and it is allowed until the 2021-2022 seasons, you just cannot play with the club GDA team during that portion of the HS season (which is otherwise generally dark for clubs now).  As for rosters, I see that being a real issue unless the clubs keep rosters close to the 16 player minimum.  Bubble players (development players) can also play in at least 6 GDA games while playing on other teams and eventually be promoted to full time GDA during season if it works out.  I'm guessing that there will be a lot of people shooting to be a developmental player so they can get the best of both worlds until things start shaking out.

There also seems to be a tension between US Soccer's desire to push girl's soccer development and ENCL's goal of getting girls into college.  There are 330+ D1 soccer teams which of course doesn't include all the D2/D3 and other teams.  That is pretty low bar to shoot for when you are trying to develop a bigger pool of world class players.  So as others have suggested, GDA won't be the only game in town if you want to play in college.  It will probably be one of several.


----------



## CaliKlines

MakeAPlay said:


> If people want to gamble with their kid's soccer career and college options it is their prerogative and they are the ones that are going to have to deal with it.  I will keep my advice to myself.


 So, listening to you means "not a gamble"? Come on MAP, even you cannot be that arrogant and conceited! It is all a gamble. Your advice is not the only way for parents to help their DD's become successful on and off the pitch. Based upon your DD's accomplishments, it is one way...but it is not the only way.


----------



## MessiFTW

CaliKlines said:


> So, listening to you means "not a gamble"? Come on MAP, even you cannot be that arrogant and conceited! It is all a gamble. Your advice is not the only way for parents to help their DD's become successful on and off the pitch. Based upon your DD's accomplishments, it is one way...but it is not the only way.


Hey advice would be to f%$k every coach possible (e.g., rec, club. odp, ynt, college, etc.) for player recommendations and to increase DD's starts/playing time.  I would not call her way a gamble.  It is more like prostitution.


----------



## Striker17

MessiFTW said:


> Hey advice would be to f%$k every coach possible (e.g., rec, club. odp, ynt, college, etc.) for player recommendations and to increase DD's starts/playing time.  I would not call her way a gamble.  It is more like prostitution.


Please keep your disrespectful view of women and potential libel to yourself.
There is no place for that discussion here and I have reported this to Dom.
How dare you say something like that- shame on you and its disgusting you have a daughter and think that is ok to talk like that.


----------



## Striker17

I am also going to say one more thing.
There are people here like MAP, NOGOAL, Espola, Abdul etc, Pugalita that have been ENORMOUS help to those of us who needed help navigating this. Their opinions matter to a lot of us.
I don't know what personal issues people have with one another but I can tell you that we need all of you to keep talking, keep posting, keep helping us navigate.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Glen said:


> I don't think that anyone would be troubled much if ENCL announced:  (1) no showcase fees; (2) no referee fees; (3) making clubs commit to scholarships (at least more than the rather opaque system we have now); (4) required licensing for coaches with assistance to pay for it; (5) access to scholarships for traveling expenses; (6) a day or two more of training for teams; and (7) added technical standards.
> 
> Roster issues for dual age group teams and no high school soccer are the major complaints with GDA.  Not sure if US Soccer pushing for these issues really amounts to a "power play," even if you disagree with them.  Perhaps misguided, but there is some thought put into it.  Interesting thing I read on the GDA Powerpoint, HS soccer is still permitted until 2017-2018 without limitation and it is allowed until the 2021-2022 seasons, you just cannot play with the club GDA team during that portion of the HS season (which is otherwise generally dark for clubs now).  As for rosters, I see that being a real issue unless the clubs keep rosters close to the 16 player minimum.  Bubble players (development players) can also play in at least 6 GDA games while playing on other teams and eventually be promoted to full time GDA during season if it works out.  I'm guessing that there will be a lot of people shooting to be a developmental player so they can get the best of both worlds until things start shaking out.
> 
> There also seems to be a tension between US Soccer's desire to push girl's soccer development and ENCL's goal of getting girls into college.  There are 330+ D1 soccer teams which of course doesn't include all the D2/D3 and other teams.  That is pretty low bar to shoot for when you are trying to develop a bigger pool of world class players.  So as others have suggested, GDA won't be the only game in town if you want to play in college.  It will probably be one of several.





Glen said:


> I don't think that anyone would be troubled much if ENCL announced:  (1) no showcase fees; (2) no referee fees; (3) making clubs commit to scholarships (at least more than the rather opaque system we have now); (4) required licensing for coaches with assistance to pay for it; (5) access to scholarships for traveling expenses; (6) a day or two more of training for teams; and (7) added technical standards.
> 
> Roster issues for dual age group teams and no high school soccer are the major complaints with GDA.  Not sure if US Soccer pushing for these issues really amounts to a "power play," even if you disagree with them.  Perhaps misguided, but there is some thought put into it.  Interesting thing I read on the GDA Powerpoint, HS soccer is still permitted until 2017-2018 without limitation and it is allowed until the 2021-2022 seasons, you just cannot play with the club GDA team during that portion of the HS season (which is otherwise generally dark for clubs now).  As for rosters, I see that being a real issue unless the clubs keep rosters close to the 16 player minimum.  Bubble players (development players) can also play in at least 6 GDA games while playing on other teams and eventually be promoted to full time GDA during season if it works out.  I'm guessing that there will be a lot of people shooting to be a developmental player so they can get the best of both worlds until things start shaking out.
> 
> There also seems to be a tension between US Soccer's desire to push girl's soccer development and ENCL's goal of getting girls into college.  There are 330+ D1 soccer teams which of course doesn't include all the D2/D3 and other teams.  That is pretty low bar to shoot for when you are trying to develop a bigger pool of world class players.  So as others have suggested, GDA won't be the only game in town if you want to play in college.  It will probably be one of several.


I agree.  I am not against the GDA.  I simply don't agree with it's implementation.  However, if they are willing to make tweaks that include the issues that would have hindered my players situation then great for the girls!!


----------



## MakeAPlay

CaliKlines said:


> So, listening to you means "not a gamble"? Come on MAP, even you cannot be that arrogant and conceited! It is all a gamble. Your advice is not the only way for parents to help their DD's become successful on and off the pitch. Based upon your DD's accomplishments, it is one way...but it is not the only way.


Hey I agree Cali.  There are many roads that lead to Rome.  I'm not conceited and honestly I was simply trying to pay forward the help that I got navigating the process.  No worries.  I'll stick to the college soccer thread since that interests me a lot more these days.  My only comment to you is getting your player committed is only the beginning.  If she actually cares about playing then there is quite a bit more advice out there that hopefully you or her get somewhere.  Even though the ACC is having a less than dominant year it is still quite a task to get on the pitch.

Good luck to your daughter.


----------



## Zerodenero

Striker17 said:


> I am also going to say one more thing.
> There are people here like MAP, NOGOAL, Espola, Abdul etc, Pugalita that have been ENORMOUS help to those of us who needed help navigating this. Their opinions matter to a lot of us.
> I don't know what personal issues people have with one another but I can tell you that we need all of you to keep talking, keep posting, keep helping us navigate.


Agreed...I also recall "Mongo" sharing very good, info. And while i agree with only 50%, ah, make that 30% of Zoro shared experience.....the university statistics info he shares definitely Of value for those in the recruiting/college selection process.

Point is, keep on keeping on.


----------



## SpeedK1llz

MessiFTW said:


> Hey advice would be to f%$k every coach possible (e.g., rec, club. odp, ynt, college, etc.) for player recommendations and to increase DD's starts/playing time.  I would not call her way a gamble.  It is more like prostitution.


How is this guy still on these boards? Can't somebody ban him?


----------



## Dominic

MessiFTW said:


> Hey advice would be to f%$k every coach possible (e.g., rec, club. odp, ynt, college, etc.) for player recommendations and to increase DD's starts/playing time.  I would not call her way a gamble.  It is more like prostitution.


*This is your second offense, your next one will get you a Time Out for 2 weeks. All IPs associated with your username will be blocked from this site.*


----------



## Zerodenero

SpeedK1llz said:


> How is this guy still on these boards? Can't somebody ban him?


----------



## espola

Dominic said:


> *This is your second offense, your next one will get you a Time Out for 2 weeks. All IPs associated with your username will be blocked from this site.*


You are being too nice.  Just dump him now.


----------



## mbeach

espola said:


> You are being too nice.  Just dump him now.


I agree, he should be banned. There is no way he should be allowed to post anymore


----------



## MessiFTW

I think I am the first to get two warnings on this site.


----------



## mbeach

MakeAPlay said:


> Hey I agree Cali.  There are many roads that lead to Rome.  I'm not conceited and honestly I was simply trying to pay forward the help that I got navigating the process.  No worries.  I'll stick to the college soccer thread since that interests me a lot more these days.  My only comment to you is getting your player committed is only the beginning.  If she actually cares about playing then there is quite a bit more advice out there that hopefully you or her get somewhere.  Even though the ACC is having a less than dominant year it is still quite a task to get on the pitch.
> 
> Good luck to your daughter.


Although I disagree with most MAP points of view, I like his arguments and people can read all opinions and decide for themselves. The problem with this DA thread is that we have already discussed all possible angles many times over. I think that moving forward, and until DA starts or the DA teams begin to be formed,  the more interesting discussion is what ECNL is going to do in SoCal. For example, there is a very interesting thread going on in a Florida forum about this. It seems that ECNL is expanding massively in Florida, probably with the intention of kicking out existing weak ECNL clubs that took on DA. Any insight on what will happen in SoCal?


----------



## NoGoal

[


mbeach said:


> Although I disagree with most MAP points of view, I like his arguments and people can read all opinions and decide for themselves. The problem with this DA thread is that we have already discussed all possible angles many times over. I think that moving forward, and until DA starts or the DA teams begin to be formed,  the more interesting discussion is what ECNL is going to do in SoCal. For example, there is a very interesting thread going on in a Florida forum about this. It seems that ECNL is expanding massively in Florida, probably with the intention of kicking out existing weak ECNL clubs that took on DA. Any insight on what will happen in SoCal?


The bigger question is what clubs will ECNL add that isn't already ECNL or DA affiliated in SoCal?


----------



## mbeach

NoGoal said:


> [
> 
> The bigger question is what clubs will ECNL add that isn't already ECNL or DA affiliated in SoCal?


Yes, that is part of what I meant. Is ECNL going to take in new clubs in SoCal? Will some ECNL clubs be kicked out? Will some DA clubs only become ECNL as well? I think all this will be very interesting.


----------



## Striker17

mbeach said:


> Yes, that is part of what I meant. Is ECNL going to take in new clubs in SoCal? Will some ECNL clubs be kicked out? Will some DA clubs only become ECNL as well? I think all this will be very interesting.


This is the type of thing that directly affects a lot of us. It's completely confusing because the ECNL seasons ends in May. The DA doesn't start until fall. I am sure many people who are elite will already know sometime soon they will be on the 03/04 DA but what about the rest of us minions? 
Where do we try out? When?
No one is saying a word .
 Many people are choosing clubs based on who has DA AND ECNL.


----------



## bababooey

Striker17 said:


> This is the type of thing that directly affects a lot of us. It's completely confusing because the ECNL seasons ends in May. The DA doesn't start until fall. I am sure many people who are elite will already know sometime soon they will be on the 03/04 DA but what about the rest of us minions?
> Where do we try out? When?
> No one is saying a word .
> Many people are choosing clubs based on who has DA AND ECNL.


You are assuming that the DA programs know how it will work. While the GDA will not affect my dd (she is not at that level), I am interested in how players will get to those teams. The programs that have both GDA and ECNL will likely promote from within and recruit like crazy. Those that have GDA but no ECNL will obviously promote from within and recruit too. However, LA Premier and Pats do not have "elite" girls teams at this time, but with GDA now, they will find new customers.

ECNL adding more teams in So Cal to try and combat GDA will be an interesting thing to watch develop (if true).

Last point, I *strongly encourage* MAP, NG, Pulguita, Mbeach, etc. to continue posting with their knowledge and experiences. It helps me for sure.


----------



## Striker17

Lol Messi poster is now making all my posts rated as dumb. This one is a crazy one Dom!


----------



## MakeAPlay

Striker17 said:


> Lol Messi poster is now making all my posts rated as dumb. This one is a crazy one Dom!


He is an Arizona guy with nothing better to do than like his posts with his other 4 screen names and dislike all of your posts.  He is a tool.


----------



## SOCCERMINION

Striker17 said:


> This is the type of thing that directly affects a lot of us. It's completely confusing because the ECNL seasons ends in May. The DA doesn't start until fall. I am sure many people who are elite will already know sometime soon they will be on the 03/04 DA but what about the rest of us minions?
> Where do we try out? When?
> No one is saying a word .
> Many people are choosing clubs based on who has DA AND ECNL.


Some of us minions may wait and ride this next year out on an ECNL team until the clubs get there act together and there is an idea of what your getting into. Playing time and developement are still our focus. As my DD will just be starting HS next year. Better to sign with the Devil you know then the Devil noone knows.


----------



## Juve 50

I am going to take a wait and see approach with GDA.  My DD was on a B team for her first 5 years of Club.  She was able to develop a love for the game and her skill without the overt pressure of winning.  Moved to a top team when the time came that she wanted to compete at a higher level.  ECNL was and is still good for her.  Things worked out well for her.  Taking the same approach with my younger.  And my dd isn't a fan of HS.  Just my experience.


----------



## genesis

Haha just wait until parents have to deal with no reentry. Coaches will have to invest in Flak Jackets.


----------



## MakeAPlay

genesis said:


> Haha just wait until parents have to deal with no reentry. Coaches will have to invest in Flak Jackets.


I'm glad that I wasn't the only one to think of that.  With no reentry realistically you might see 14-15 girls play a game.


----------



## Striker17

SOCCERMINION said:


> Some of us minions may wait and ride this next year out on an ECNL team until the clubs get there act together and there is an idea of what your getting into. Playing time and developement are still our focus. As my DD will just be starting HS next year. Better to sign with the Devil you know then the Devil noone knows.


Agree. The only issue is that there are so many DA clubs now that theoretically a marginal player could make a DA at a club so are you hurting the girls by not trying to get them on a lower performing DA to get them in the system? That's what I am hearing. 
Makeaplay and NOGOAL always said it was best to get into an ECNL club by 13. I am all for hanging out at a place where my dd plays a lot and we like the coach it's just now the pressure seems greater because in theory the draw that ECNL had for the coaches MAY switch to DA in a couple of years. All conjecture but it's driving a lot of decisions. 
There is already a lot of movement and we haven't started league


----------



## NoGoal

Striker17 said:


> Agree. The only issue is that there are so many DA clubs now that theoretically a marginal player could make a DA at a club so are you hurting the girls by not trying to get them on a lower performing DA to get them in the system? That's what I am hearing.
> Makeaplay and NOGOAL always said it was best to get into an ECNL club by 13. I am all for hanging out at a place where my dd plays a lot and we like the coach it's just now the pressure seems greater because in theory the draw that ECNL had for the coaches MAY switch to DA in a couple of years. All conjecture but it's driving a lot of decisions.
> There is already a lot of movement and we haven't started league


IMO, A stud player (you will know if your DD is or not) can make the jump to whichever will be the top league at U15/16 for the college exposure.  If not a stud, then U14 and have her hang on for dear life....not to be bumped in couple of years.

At U16 is usually when college coaches sort out, which players are college soccer material.


----------



## Striker17

Wh


NoGoal said:


> IMO, A stud player (you will know if your DD is or not) can make the jump to whichever will be the top league at U15/16 for the college exposure.  If not a stud, then U14 and have her hang on for dear life....not to be bumped in couple of years.
> 
> At U16 is usually when college coaches sort out, which players are college soccer material.



What do you think about the fact though that now with such a diluted base its better to try to DA stud or not?


----------



## SOCCERMINION

Striker17 said:


> Wh
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think about the fact though that now with such a diluted base its better to try to DA stud or not?


Diluted, LOL, there will be no shortage of high end tallent trying out for the few spots on these DA Teams, Basically take the top 4 studs from every socal top tier and ECNL team and spread them out over the few dual age group teams. IMO The tough choices come in for the < top 4 studs on current socal rosters, do they take the jump and give up possible ODP, ID2, HS playing time for possibly a ride on the bench for the fewer DA games played each year. All this for the "EXTRA PRACTICE TIME" and better developement model. Easy Sell if your one of the top 4 Studs on your current top tier team in Socal. far less chance of riding the bench. But tought sell for the < top 4 studs. Very tough call to make the first year of GDA not knowing....


----------



## Striker17

SOCCERMINION said:


> Diluted, LOL, there will be no shortage of high end tallent trying out for the few spots on these DA Teams, Basically take the top 4 studs from every socal top tier and ECNL team and spread them out over the few dual age group teams. IMO The tough choices come in for the < top 4 studs on current socal rosters, do they take the jump and give up possible ODP, ID2, HS playing time for possibly a ride on the bench for the fewer DA games played each year. All this for the "EXTRA PRACTICE TIME" and better developement model. Easy Sell if your one of the top 4 Studs on your current top tier team in Socal. far less chance of riding the bench. But tought sell for the < top 4 studs. Very tough call to make the first year of GDA not knowing....


Thanks for the insight. There are way more DA teams than ECNL though.  Granted it's only 12 spots per age group but there are more clubs.


----------



## NoGoal

Striker17 said:


> Wh
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think about the fact though that now with such a diluted base its better to try to DA stud or not?


You lost me, try to DA stud or not?


----------



## NoGoal

SOCCERMINION said:


> Diluted, LOL, there will be no shortage of high end tallent trying out for the few spots on these DA Teams, Basically take the top 4 studs from every socal top tier and ECNL team and spread them out over the few dual age group teams. IMO The tough choices come in for the < top 4 studs on current socal rosters, do they take the jump and give up possible ODP, ID2, HS playing time for possibly a ride on the bench for the fewer DA games played each year. All this for the "EXTRA PRACTICE TIME" and better developement model. Easy Sell if your one of the top 4 Studs on your current top tier team in Socal. far less chance of riding the bench. But tought sell for the < top 4 studs. Very tough call to make the first year of GDA not knowing....


It could be a good idea to see how it all unfolds during the inaugural season.  Then jump into the fold the following year, see which clubs need to fill holes to improve their teams.  In a way you can apply the same theory to college recruiting.  See which players are graduating out and what positions and committments they have coming in prior to your DDs class.  

Then again it all depends on your DDs age.  If younger than U14 then parents will be able to get an idea from parents currently in the Girls DA system.  Parents with DDs U15 and above their DDs are already in the college recruiting years....so they should already be on college coaches radar may it be ECNL or Girls DA.


----------



## SOCCERMINION

Striker17 said:


> Thanks for the insight. There are way more DA teams than ECNL though.  Granted it's only 12 spots per age group but there are more clubs.


Its 7 spots per age group ony 14 girls will see play time each game, I'm figuring only 8 of the studs on the teams will not ride the bench and the rest will share some kind of game/bench rotation to try to keep them happy. And there are many Top tier teams in Socal that are full of studs besides ECNL teams. I understand the DA model is focused and evaluated on developement, but make no mistake , the coaches will be playing to win all games, this means fielding their best players all the time. Because the Club system has always been, "You have to win to keep the Talent coming to your club".....


----------



## mbeach

SOCCERMINION said:


> Its 7 spots per age group ony 14 girls will see play time each game, .....


Since it looks like some parents read these posts to gather information, let's be precise about the substitution rules. Straight from the Girls DA application form:
"Game-day roster: 18 players and 5 technical staff members permitted on the bench and in the technical area"
"Substitution rules: no re-entry; seven substitutions across three “opportunities” for U-14/15; five substitutions across three “opportunities” for U-16/17 and U-18/19"


----------



## Striker17

SOCCERMINION said:


> Its 7 spots per age group ony 14 girls will see play time each game, I'm figuring only 8 of the studs on the teams will not ride the bench and the rest will share some kind of game/bench rotation to try to keep them happy. And there are many Top tier teams in Socal that are full of studs besides ECNL teams. I understand the DA model is focused and evaluated on developement, but make no mistake , the coaches will be playing to win all games, this means fielding their best players all the time. Because the Club system has always been, "You have to win to keep the Talent coming to your club".....


You lost me- that's not the roster size I heard? 
Also lets be real here just like now there will be parents who want their daughter on the DA who will have no issue with them never playing. We see it ALL the time. They will have no problem with them as 18-23 on a roster. 
That's the group I am referring to. Not your 1-5 studs who will be fighting with the other 1-5 studs in the higher band BUT your 12-23 spot girls. From what I hear the clubs will be fielding it like an ECNL roster and max it out.
Using that logic, with now a massive increase in clubs than the previous ECNL model that talent pool is in fact diluted. 
I have no doubt that there are tons of great players I just don't believe that there will be all "elite" players who will be on DA. 
ECNL rosters are 23. We had limited options before now in my area we can easily go to six DA clubs that's a huge increase for us. 

I do agree with you - there will be an emergence of a super team in SoCal but I think it will take time. Everyone I have talked to is excited about Beach because they don't have to commute, Pats because it's new etc. There are girls who come from Temecula who can now choose a Legends club. 

Roster maximum
U-13/14 team rosters must have a minimum of 16 full-time players and no more than 23 full-time players
Each club must have a minimum roster of 32 full-time players and no more than 46 full-time players at the U-15/16 and U-17/18 age groups combined
All players register directly with the U.S. Soccer Federatiion


----------



## mbeach

Striker17 said:


> You lost me- that's not the roster size I heard?
> Also lets be real here just like now there will be parents who want their daughter on the DA who will have no issue with them never playing. We see it ALL the time. They will have no problem with them as 18-23 on a roster.
> That's the group I am referring to. Not your 1-5 studs who will be fighting with the other 1-5 studs in the higher band BUT your 12-23 spot girls. From what I hear the clubs will be fielding it like an ECNL roster and max it out.
> Using that logic, with now a massive increase in clubs than the previous ECNL model that talent pool is in fact diluted.
> I have no doubt that there are tons of great players I just don't believe that there will be all "elite" players who will be on DA.
> ECNL rosters are 23. We had limited options before now in my area we can easily go to six DA clubs that's a huge increase for us.
> 
> I do agree with you - there will be an emergence of a super team in SoCal but I think it will take time. Everyone I have talked to is excited about Beach because they don't have to commute, Pats because it's new etc. There are girls who come from Temecula who can now choose a Legends club.
> 
> Roster maximum
> U-13/14 team rosters must have a minimum of 16 full-time players and no more than 23 full-time players
> Each club must have a minimum roster of 32 full-time players and no more than 46 full-time players at the U-15/16 and U-17/18 age groups combined
> All players register directly with the U.S. Soccer Federatiion


And I have also read from a US Soccer source (which I cannot find  and reference now) that every player has to start a minimum of 25% games. So the bottom line is that playing time for everybody/anybody is not really a different issue from what is going on now. Everybody (especially PARENTS) wants to win every game, whether it is DA, ECNL, SCDSL, tournaments, etc. What I can see that will be different is that even a bigger premium will be placed in athletic players, or more exactly on players with stamina, because of the longer playing period without a break. But stamina is something that, unlike speed, can "easily" be acquired.
Regarding whether the rosters will be maxed out or not, it is difficult to tell. There are arguments to be made for both cases. I think that a few posts ago C.A.M., who gave great information associated with his experience in Boys DA, said that the rosters in her/his club were on the short side.


----------



## BornToRun

mbeach said:


> Since it looks like some parents read these posts to gather information, let's be precise about the substitution rules. Straight from the Girls DA application form:
> "Game-day roster: 18 players and 5 technical staff members permitted on the bench and in the technical area"
> "Substitution rules: no re-entry; seven substitutions across three “opportunities” for U-14/15; five substitutions across three “opportunities” for U-16/17 and U-18/19"


Does it specify if the age groups have to be "mixed" on game day?  In other words, how many of the game day roster have to be olders vs youngers?  Can you then start a game with 9 olders and 2 youngers?  etc etc.  And what about the play-ups? 

I guess for me, after thinking about it for a while now--  it is the mixed age bands that I am seeing in my head as the biggest problem in all this.  Leaves for no team continuity, (which I really do think is important for the girls) and leaves some children behind by seriously limiting their game time. How does this work on the boys' side?  Do the coaches basically just start the top 11  and are they mostly olders and the occasional talented younger?


----------



## mbeach

BornToRun said:


> Does it specify if the age groups have to be "mixed" on game day?  In other words, how many of the game day roster have to be olders vs youngers?  Can you then start a game with 9 olders and 2 youngers?  etc etc.  And what about the play-ups?
> 
> I guess for me, after thinking about it for a while now--  it is the mixed age bands that I am seeing in my head as the biggest problem in all this.  Leaves for no team continuity, (which I really do think is important for the girls) and leaves some children behind by seriously limiting their game time. How does this work on the boys' side?  Do the coaches basically just start the top 11  and are they mostly olders and the occasional talented younger?


From what I have read, there is not a rule stating that 50% of the players must be from each year group (whether in the team roster or game day roster), but the official documents  do hint strongly that the rosters should be approximately 50%. I do not like this mixing either.      

The documents describe a especial player figure, called "Development Player", which probably is partially designed  for play-ups into the younger 14/15 group:
 "A Development Player (DP) is a “bubble player” in any age group that trains with your GDA player pool, but is better suited playing games with a “second level” team from within the club (provided the club has full oversight and connection with this group, group operates out of same facility, and player does not come from an affiliate club)
• Registering a DP is a serious and careful decision that should be part of a planned opportunity for the player to get meaningful game experience in an Academy game
• Clubs can have a maximum of 10 DPs registered at a single time within their player pool; DPs may play in a maximum of 6 games and can later move to full-time, provided the club has roster moves and full-time roster space available"

In my opinion, a younger girl playing up into the 14/15 group can be physically dangerous. I have two girls, an 06 playing up 05, and an 03. Although my 06 could play up with 04s, I have noticed that the size difference between 04s and 03s is huge, and I doubt that any 05 can really play up with 03s. I think that 04s will struggle greatly playing with 03s, let alone 05s playing up into the 04/03 team. But as they get older playing up will be more feasible.


----------



## NoGoal

I posted this before, I was told by a buddy who's son plays Boys DA.  Ueven players (younger) usually play less than the Uodd players (older) on the dual age teams.


----------



## Striker17

NoGoal said:


> I posted this before, I was told by a buddy who's son plays Boys DA.  Ueven players (younger) usually play less than the Uodd players (older) on the dual age teams.


Nephew is FC Dallas. They work a full roster and play to win. They fight for playing time. They do have a percentage of mandated playing time but I don't know how much it's enforced because all I am privy to is how much more difficult it is to "keep and retain a spot".
It is highly competitive but they also travel two hours to get there. 

I also know it's the highly highly elite player that they play up. There is none of this dual roster to please mommy and daddy act or putting a "very good" player whose younger on an A team. They adhere to birth year unless it's a Mal Pugh type of situation.
I hope our girls DA does that because the "playing up" is getting laughable now.


----------



## Striker17

mbeach said:


> From what I have read, there is not a rule stating that 50% of the players must be from each year group (whether in the team roster or game day roster), but the official documents  do hint strongly that the rosters should be approximately 50%. I do not like this mixing either.
> 
> The documents describe a especial player figure, called "Development Player", which probably is partially designed  for play-ups into the younger 14/15 group:
> "A Development Player (DP) is a “bubble player” in any age group that trains with your GDA player pool, but is better suited playing games with a “second level” team from within the club (provided the club has full oversight and connection with this group, group operates out of same facility, and player does not come from an affiliate club)
> • Registering a DP is a serious and careful decision that should be part of a planned opportunity for the player to get meaningful game experience in an Academy game
> • Clubs can have a maximum of 10 DPs registered at a single time within their player pool; DPs may play in a maximum of 6 games and can later move to full-time, provided the club has roster moves and full-time roster space available"
> 
> In my opinion, a younger girl playing up into the 14/15 group can be physically dangerous. I have two girls, an 06 playing up 05, and an 03. Although my 06 could play up with 04s, I have noticed that the size difference between 04s and 03s is huge, and I doubt that any 05 can really play up with 03s. I think that 04s will struggle greatly playing with 03s, let alone 05s playing up into the 04/03 team. But as they get older playing up will be more feasible.


I hope DP are limited to true age group bubble players or the actually elite younger. We all know the elite younger and it's about one per club maybe. Sorry but it's true - parents version of elite is a lot different than an objective coach.


----------



## Real Deal

mbeach said:


> From what I have read, there is not a rule stating that 50% of the players must be from each year group (whether in the team roster or game day roster), but the official documents  do hint strongly that the rosters should be approximately 50%. I do not like this mixing either.
> 
> The documents describe a especial player figure, called "Development Player", which probably is partially designed  for play-ups into the younger 14/15 group:
> "A Development Player (DP) is a “bubble player” in any age group that trains with your GDA player pool, but is better suited playing games with a “second level” team from within the club (provided the club has full oversight and connection with this group, group operates out of same facility, and player does not come from an affiliate club)
> • Registering a DP is a serious and careful decision that should be part of a planned opportunity for the player to get meaningful game experience in an Academy game
> • Clubs can have a maximum of 10 DPs registered at a single time within their player pool; DPs may play in a maximum of 6 games and can later move to full-time, provided the club has roster moves and full-time roster space available"
> 
> In my opinion, a younger girl playing up into the 14/15 group can be physically dangerous. I have two girls, an 06 playing up 05, and an 03. Although my 06 could play up with 04s, I have noticed that the size difference between 04s and 03s is huge, and I doubt that any 05 can really play up with 03s. I think that 04s will struggle greatly playing with 03s, let alone 05s playing up into the 04/03 team. But as they get older playing up will be more feasible.


So just curious mbeach:  you say no one should play up, but then you say your one daughter plays up now, on 05s--  so when 04/05 Academy rolls around you going to pull her back to 06s?  Or are you one of those parents who thinks there daughter's the only one who should be playing up?  
(Just kiddin' around, but is that yur plan?)


----------



## Real Deal

Striker17 said:


> I hope DP are limited to true age group bubble players or the actually elite younger. We all know the elite younger and it's about one per club maybe. Sorry but it's true - parents version of elite is a lot different than an objective coach.


I think a player can be "future elite potential" (which is truly how they should refer to the younger age groups) ... and it can still not be in their best interest to play up all the time.  It depends on mental, physical maturity, and whether the social part is important to them or not.  It also may be that they are a great team leader in the making... but their growth in that area will be stunted by playing up... I mean seriously, what 12 year old is going to boss around a 14 year old???


----------



## mbeach

Real Deal said:


> So just curious mbeach:  you say no one should play up, but then you say your one daughter plays up now, on 05s--  so when 04/05 Academy rolls around you going to pull her back to 06s?  Or are you one of those parents who thinks there daughter's the only one who should be playing up?
> (Just kiddin' around, but is that yur plan?)


That is not what I said (and the post was quite clear). What I said is that in this particular age period, it is dangerous for a girl to play up two years. Obviously I will not let my girl do it out of safety concerns.


----------



## Striker17

Real Deal said:


> So just curious mbeach:  you say no one should play up, but then you say your one daughter plays up now, on 05s--  so when 04/05 Academy rolls around you going to pull her back to 06s?  Or are you one of those parents who thinks there daughter's the only one who should be playing up?
> (Just kiddin' around, but is that yur plan?)


I think it's case specific and I have DEFINETLY  seen a very special 06 and a special 05. They are the type of players that "make" a team. They are rare though.
The clubs should not be playing the "my daughter is a great player 05" on an Academy team. 
Just a humble opinion.


----------



## Real Deal

Striker17 said:


> I think it's case specific and I have DEFINETLY  seen a very special 06 and a special 05. They are the type of players that "make" a team. They are rare though.
> The clubs should not be playing the "my daughter is a great player 05" on an Academy team.
> Just a humble opinion.


Agreed.  And i guess the question would be, will that player make the same kind of impact playing up 2 years on an Academy team?

The youngers who make the Academy team in a particular age band are playing up anyways!  (as in-- the 04s in 03/04 age group Academy).  What's the dang rush?  Wish they had just mandated it that way.


----------



## mbeach

Real Deal said:


> Agreed.  And i guess the question would be, will that player make the same kind of impact playing up 2 years on an Academy team?
> 
> The youngers who make the Academy team in a particular age band are playing up anyways!  (as in-- the 04s in 03/04 age group Academy).  What's the dang rush?  Wish they had just mandated it that way.


That is right, playing up in these teams actually means playing up 2 years. Maybe possible when older, but very unsafe at 12 vs 14 when playing to win and the older girl lowers the shoulder in a charge at full speed.


----------



## Striker17

Real Deal said:


> I think a player can be "future elite potential" (which is truly how they should refer to the younger age groups) ... and it can still not be in their best interest to play up all the time.  It depends on mental, physical maturity, and whether the social part is important to them or not.  It also may be that they are a great team leader in the making... but their growth in that area will be stunted by playing up... I mean seriously, what 12 year old is going to boss around a 14 year old???


What I have seen in regards to this exact scenario is it was more of a way to feed a parents ego and keep a talented girl at a club.
The studs will choose, then the younger "elites" will shop for someone to take them. It's already happening.
Again I am all for the truly elite player - and many people can see who that usually is on a team.
When I initially started this thread my whole point was that I do believe that the "bubble" a team players or bench players at current teams will shop to be starters at another Club.
For example if you haven't "broken through" at Surf or Blues or Slammers why wouldn't you drive up to Carlsbad or Pats and give it a go? That's what I am hearing .
I think the clubs are expecting those 11-20 girls per age to stay and make up their ECNL team and don't get that the great migration is already on. 
Maybe because of more options we will see an increase in club loyalty and developing the bubble and B teams. 
I can't even type that with a straight face


----------



## Striker17

Real Deal said:


> Agreed.  And i guess the question would be, will that player make the same kind of impact playing up 2 years on an Academy team?
> 
> The youngers who make the Academy team in a particular age band are playing up anyways!  (as in-- the 04s in 03/04 age group Academy).  What's the dang rush?  Wish they had just mandated it that way.


Parental ego. Plain and simply.


----------



## Zerodenero

Striker17 said:


> Parental ego. Plain and simply.


There's argument for it at the u-little ages but past U15, no value add in it.


----------



## mbeach

Striker17 said:


> What I have seen in regards to this exact scenario is it was more of a way to feed a parents ego and keep a talented girl at a club.
> The studs will choose, then the younger "elites" will shop for someone to take them. It's already happening.
> Again I am all for the truly elite player - and many people can see who that usually is on a team.
> When I initially started this thread my whole point was that I do believe that the "bubble" a team players or bench players at current teams will shop to be starters at another Club.
> For example if you haven't "broken through" at Surf or Blues or Slammers why wouldn't you drive up to Carlsbad or Pats and give it a go? That's what I am hearing .
> I think the clubs are expecting those 11-20 girls per age to stay and make up their ECNL team and don't get that the great migration is already on.
> Maybe because of more options we will see an increase in club loyalty and developing the bubble and B teams.
> I can't even type that with a straight face


This is just my two cents. Regarding the 11-20 girls per age group that you are referring to, it seems to me that it is in their best interest to tryout for DA teams in different clubs. And it is clear that they will have more opportunities with DA clubs that have a lesser record with girls. My observation is that clubs have zero loyalty to their players, so there is no need to reciprocate.
Since we are talking about club loyalty to its players, I will go back to a point of discussion that we had a few months ago when we began talking about GDA: how clubs would fund the subsidy to DA families. The more likely way is to increase the fees to all other families in the club, which would be easier to do for very big clubs (please, DA opponents, do not use this to go back into the same old discussion, the increase for big clubs was not that much and it would be too boring again). But how could clubs sell this to the majority of their families? My idea was that the smart clubs would  guarantee/advertise that a high percentage of DA positions (not all, but a high percentage) would be filled with girls that had been developed X years in the club. What a better way to advertise club loyalty, and to make sure that the club truly develops players? I have not seen this advertised by any club, and in fact I believe that clubs will take the best 20 girls for their DA teams, regardless of where they come.


----------



## Zerodenero

mbeach said:


> That is right, playing up in these teams actually means playing up 2 years. Maybe possible when older, but very unsafe at 12 vs 14 when playing to win and the older girl lowers the shoulder in a charge at full speed.


Totally agree. Unless she's one of the special ones .....I've witnessed it hinder growth/opportunity rather than foster.


----------



## MakeAPlay

SOCCERMINION said:


> Its 7 spots per age group ony 14 girls will see play time each game, I'm figuring only 8 of the studs on the teams will not ride the bench and the rest will share some kind of game/bench rotation to try to keep them happy. And there are many Top tier teams in Socal that are full of studs besides ECNL teams. I understand the DA model is focused and evaluated on developement, but make no mistake , the coaches will be playing to win all games, this means fielding their best players all the time. Because the Club system has always been, "You have to win to keep the Talent coming to your club".....


With all due respect, I have not in 10 years of watching club soccer seen a team other than a YNT that are full of studs.  Not ECNL, not ODP, not PDP.  The truth is that per age group there are probably 20-25 top tier players and about half of them might be studs and maybe 5 of them actually are.


----------



## MakeAPlay

mbeach said:


> And I have also read from a US Soccer source (which I cannot find  and reference now) that every player has to start a minimum of 25% games. So the bottom line is that playing time for everybody/anybody is not really a different issue from what is going on now. Everybody (especially PARENTS) wants to win every game, whether it is DA, ECNL, SCDSL, tournaments, etc. What I can see that will be different is that even a bigger premium will be placed in athletic players, or more exactly on players with stamina, because of the longer playing period without a break. But stamina is something that, unlike speed, can "easily" be acquired.
> Regarding whether the rosters will be maxed out or not, it is difficult to tell. There are arguments to be made for both cases. I think that a few posts ago C.A.M., who gave great information associated with his experience in Boys DA, said that the rosters in her/his club were on the short side.


The quote that you are referencing had to do with the Boys DA.  I have not seen a PT mandate from the GDA.


----------



## mbeach

MakeAPlay said:


> The quote that you are referencing had to do with the Boys DA.  I have not seen a PT mandate from the GDA.


You are probably right, it is indeed not stated in the application. But in the FAQ page, the following comment is made to answer the question "*Are the rules & regulations exactly the same as the boys DA?*":  
"The vast majority of the current Academy rules and regulations will be the same". 
It would be odd that a major regulation such as minimum number of starts were not part of the vast majority, but it could happen.


----------



## ESPNANALYST

MakeAPlay said:


> With all due respect, I have not in 10 years of watching club soccer seen a team other than a YNT that are full of studs.  Not ECNL, not ODP, not PDP.  The truth is that per age group there are probably 20-25 top tier players and about half of them might be studs and maybe 5 of them actually are.


Glad this point was touched on. On many top teams the impact players drive the play. They should be the the DA. The impact players can make the rest look good. On a roster of 18 we are talking about 5-6 players. 
On 9 DA clubs that's 45-50 players per age group. 
If they make it truly elite and stop placating to politics and  parents is the only way this could work. Let's see how great these "elite teams" are when you take their four impact players off the pitch and the rest have to be taught to play soccer and be developed.


----------



## Zerodenero

MakeAPlay said:


> With all due respect, I have not in 10 years of watching club soccer seen a team other than a YNT that are full of studs.  Not ECNL, not ODP, not PDP.  The truth is that per age group there are probably 20-25 top tier players and about half of them might be studs and maybe 5 of them actually are.


Agreed....U surface a good point, as parents are looking/searching for new DA/Ecnl clubs, ive found direct and ancillary value for dd's to be playing with (same team) top level/special/stud/YNT level player(s). Most top teams (Ecnl & non) usually will have 1, maybe 2 of them. Parents/players (your dd's will know who they are) should seek those Ecnl & or DA teams.


----------



## Zerodenero

ESPNANALYST said:


> Glad this point was touched on. On many top teams the impact players drive the play. They should be the the DA. The impact players can make the rest look good. On a roster of 18 we are talking about 5-6 players.
> On 9 DA clubs that's 45-50 players per age group.
> If they make it truly elite and stop placating to politics and  parents is the only way this could work. Let's see how great these "elite teams" are when you take their four impact players off the pitch and the rest have to be taught to play soccer and be developed.


And those 5-6 (that's a bit of a stretch) will head to the top 5-10 soccer universities - awesome.....Thank god there's several hundred other academic institutions that will fight for the scraps left over


----------



## ESPNANALYST

Zerodenero said:


> And those 5-6 (that's a bit of a stretch) will head to the top 5-10 soccer universities - awesome.....Thank god there's several hundred other academic institutions that will fight for the scraps left over


I agree. I will be happy to enjoy D3 spoils.


----------



## genesis

Among many arguments, my infinite wisdom tells me that 98% of the girls playing soccer would not make it to practice four days a week; a requirement of the *envelopment* academy. With so many fun things to do besides soccer why would they want to? Again the majority of serious players only want to play in college and would prefer to be much more well rounded.

No weight jokes please.


----------



## Zerodenero

ESPNANALYST said:


> I agree. I will be happy to enjoy D3 spoils.


Shoot....there's a hell of a lot more D1's than 10.

But be as it be..... D3 be alright w/me


----------



## genesis

Zerodenero said:


> Shoot....there's a hell of a lot more D1's than 10.
> 
> But be as it be..... D3 be alright w/me


You mean?


----------



## ESPNANALYST

Zerodenero said:


> Shoot....there's a hell of a lot more D1's than 10.
> 
> But be as it be..... D3 be alright w/me


 I had no idea. WOW THAT IS INCREDIBLE. Kudos to your DD! Playing soccer and getting one of the best educations in the world


----------



## Zerodenero

ESPNANALYST said:


> I had no idea. WOW THAT IS INCREDIBLE. Kudos to your DD! Playing soccer and getting one of the best educations in the world









Just making a point....some D3's ROCK!!


----------



## bababooey

For me, college soccer is just a way for my dd to get her degree. If I can get some financial assistance along the way, great.

I would prefer she played for an Ivy League school versus any top tier D1 school. The soccer career will be over long before the "real" career ends.


----------



## Sped

bababooey said:


> For me, college soccer is just a way for my dd to get her degree. If I can get some financial assistance along the way, great.
> 
> I would prefer she played for an Ivy League school versus any top tier D1 school. The soccer career will be over long before the "real" career ends.


I think I might tweak that a bit - if you can play at Princeton or Stanford, you play at Stanford.  Brown or UCLA?  Penn or Cal?  There are plenty of top D1 schools that give you a great education as well.  Michigan, UVA, UNC, Duke, Cal, UCLA, Stanford are all fine by me lol.


----------



## ESPNANALYST

Grades and scores get you a likely letter from an Ivy. Amazing soccer talent is a bonus I would assume.
Yes not interested in D1


Sped said:


> I think I might tweak that a bit - if you can play at Princeton or Stanford, you play at Stanford.  Brown or UCLA?  Penn or Cal?  There are plenty of top D1 schools that give you a great education as well.  Michigan, UVA, UNC, Duke, Cal, UCLA, Stanford are all fine by me lol.


Oh please Sped there is a lot more that goes into choosing schools! 
Princeton any day of the week over Stanford in this house. East coast baby!
Soccer is not life. Soccer should be the added benefit to the school that they enjoy. Choosing a school for a soccer program- for the love of God smh


----------



## Zerodenero

Sped said:


> I think I might tweak that a bit - if you can play at Princeton or Stanford, you play at Stanford.  Brown or UCLA?  Penn or Cal?  There are plenty of top D1 schools that give you a great education as well.  Michigan, UVA, UNC, Duke, Cal, UCLA, Stanford are all fine by me lol.


For what it's worth, a perfect example is Momma Make's dd who is a legit stud on all fronts (_yes, I'm for real_) who could have attended/played anywhere.... (_yes, Harvard, Princeton or Yale_) but chose a perennial athletic AND academic power house. Remember, Just because you can doesn't mean you should (funny how that works).  FIT is so crucially important for girls.

What ever youth league u-youngers choose....maximize it to the full potential.


----------



## NoGoal

ESPNANALYST said:


> Grades and scores get you a likely letter from an Ivy. Amazing soccer talent is a bonus I would assume.
> Yes not interested in D1
> 
> 
> Oh please Sped there is a lot more that goes into choosing schools!
> Princeton any day of the week over Stanford in this house. East coast baby!
> Soccer is not life. Soccer should be the added benefit to the school that they enjoy. Choosing a school for a soccer program- for the love of God smh


Stanford with Silicon Valley tech companies recruiting their grads is tough to reject.  Google, Apple, AMD, Intel, Cisco, HP, Nvidia, Netflix and Facebook are a few that come to mind.


----------



## outside!

ESPNANALYST said:


> Princeton any day of the week over Stanford in this house. East coast baby!
> Soccer is not life. Soccer should be the added benefit to the school that they enjoy. Choosing a school for a soccer program- for the love of God smh


Nice choice to have to make, for some. For others, neither school is a good fit. "The sun may rise in the east, but at least is settles in a finer location." RHCP. Feel free to move back east anytime.


----------



## Glen

NoGoal said:


> Stanford with Silicon Valley tech companies recruiting their grads is tough to reject.  Google, Apple, AMD, Intel, Cisco, HP, Nvidia, Netflix and Facebook are a few that come to mind.


Very true.  But beyond Stanford, Duke, and maybe a Northwestern, Cal, or Michigan (I may have missed a couple), the Power 5 conference schools range from great regional schools to so-so regional schools.  If your DD is from So Cal and plans to stay, no better place than UCLA or USC.  But sending them off to comparable schools far away doesn't make much sense to me.  If you go out of state, go to the great academic D-III or Ivy League if you can use soccer to get in.

What seems crazy to me is that parents are sending their kids to say, Ohio State, from So Cal.  OSU may be a great school if you are going to live in Ohio.  But really?  Send your So Cal kid to pay more than double in out-of-state tuition in order to receive, say, a half scholarship.  Your kid could probably get a better degree from a Cal state school (e.g., Long Beach) with more connections in So Cal for less than you are paying in travel and reduced tuition to OSU.  In some respects, I just see this a more pay to play.  But hey, I guess the parent can claim their kid got a scholarship to a Power 5 school.


----------



## NoGoal

Glen said:


> Very true.  But beyond Stanford, Duke, and maybe a Northwestern, Cal, or Michigan (I may have missed a couple), the Power 5 conference schools range from great regional schools to so-so regional schools.  If your DD is from So Cal and plans to stay, no better place than UCLA or USC.  But sending them off to comparable schools far away doesn't make much sense to me.  If you go out of state, go to the great academic D-III or Ivy League if you can use soccer to get in.
> 
> What seems crazy to me is that parents are sending their kids to say, Ohio State, from So Cal.  OSU may be a great school if you are going to live in Ohio.  But really?  Send your So Cal kid to pay more than double in out-of-state tuition in order to receive, say, a half scholarship.  Your kid could probably get a better degree from a Cal state school (e.g., Long Beach) with more connections in So Cal for less than you are paying in travel and reduced tuition to OSU.  In some respects, I just see this a more pay to play.  But hey, I guess the parent can claim their kid got a scholarship to a Power 5 school.


It all depends on the player and what they are looking for in a university.  UCLA for the most part recruits from the YNT pool.  USC YNT pool and best regional players.  A player focusing on those 2 specific schools is  drastically narrowing their available choices, especially if they are neither a YNT player or top regional player.  Not to mention even a 50% offer at USC is still a hefty tuition rate at 32.5K a year.

I tried convincing my DD to remain local and commit to UCI for selfish reasons, but she wanted to attend an out of state university.  I then told her try CAL or UC Davis those schools are far, but she was having none of it, lol.


----------



## espola

NoGoal said:


> It all depends on the player and what they are looking for in a university.  UCLA for the most part recruits from the YNT pool.  USC YNT pool and best regional players.  A player focusing on those 2 specific schools is  drastically narrowing their available choices, especially if they are neither a YNT player or top regional player.  Not to mention even a 50% offer at USC is still a hefty tuition rate at 32.5K a year.
> 
> I tried convincing my DD to remain local and commit to UCI for selfish reasons, but she wanted to attend an out of state university.  I then told her try CAL or UC Davis those schools are far, but she was having none of it, lol.


Who is paying the bills?


----------



## NoGoal

espola said:


> Who is paying the bills?


Technically if any player is getting at least a 50% athletic scholarship they are paying for their education as well.

To back track, Pac12 and Big10 athletic ships are now guaranteed for 4 yrs. Where as mid-majors are not, so if any player committs to OSU for example.  It's not a poor choice compared to non guaranteed ships at Cal State Schools such as SDSU, SLO and LB State. Saving grace at Cal State schools is the tuition is very affordable at $6,500 per year.

I forgot to add, there are preferred walk-ons at UCLA, but lets be honest.  The chances of a preferred walk-on ever touching the pitch at Drake Stadium is slim to none.  I recall a couple of times club coaches saying, a schools offer indicates how much they really want a player in their program.


----------



## soccerobserver

Sped said:


> I think I might tweak that a bit - if you can play at Princeton or Stanford, you play at Stanford.  Brown or UCLA?  Penn or Cal?  There are plenty of top D1 schools that give you a great education as well.  Michigan, UVA, UNC, Duke, Cal, UCLA, Stanford are all fine by me lol.


Sped, I have a different perspective and think both views are legit. I have heard that some of the players at Stanford major in things like 'communications" etc...which is not the same as the kind of majors and educational experiences kids get at such schools who are not playing soccer. Also, one of Princeton's stars turned down Stanford for Princeton bc she wanted the high level educational experience she could get there while playing soccer as opposed to  what she could get playing higher level soccer at Stanford. Every player has to find the right fit based upon their own uniqueness.


----------



## NoGoal

soccerobserver said:


> Sped, I have a different perspective and think both views are legit. I have heard that some of the players at Stanford major in things like 'communications" etc...which is not the same as the kind of majors and educational experiences kids get at such schools who are not playing soccer. Also, one of Princeton's stars turned down Stanford for Princeton bc she wanted the high level educational experience she could get there while playing soccer as opposed to  what she could get playing higher level soccer at Stanford. Every player has to find the right fit based upon their own uniqueness.


There are stories that M.A. wasn't accepted to Stanford.  I also know another player who was denied admissions at Stanford, but was accepted at an Ivy League School.  My guess is Ivies don't get as many YNT players, so the Ivy head coaches can get exceptions approved.  While Stanford is practically all YNT players, so less opportunities for exceptions being made.


----------



## Glen

NoGoal said:


> To back track, Pac12 and Big10 athletic ships are now guaranteed for 4 yrs. Where as mid-majors are not, so if any player committs to OSU for example.  It's not a poor choice compared to non guaranteed ships at Cal State Schools such as SDSU, SLO and LB State. Saving grace at Cal State schools is the tuition is very affordable at $6,500 per year.


The distinction between those conferences providing some level of scholarship guarantee is very informative.

I am saying something a little different regarding costs.  A kid going to a Cal State school with no scholarship - maybe doesn't even play soccer (so scholarship guarantees don't become relevant) - is better off for So Cal job prospects and probably paying less than a kid from So Cal going to OSU and getting a 50% scholarship.  So the family/kid is really just paying an extra sports fee so their kid can play soccer at OSU.  People are free to do what they want with their money, but it is amusing to me at some level.  I also say this with a backdrop that I agree that there is no real career right now for girls to pursue professional soccer.  So to me the most important thing is getting the girl to a place that will provide her the most opportunities after college.  If you go to Stanford and some others, you can have the best both worlds.  But after that, I think we should guide them to prioritize the better school over the better soccer program. 

And obviously there are a lot of different circumstances that could make OSU a good choice (maybe the kid gets a full ride or the kid has family in Ohio).  I'm talking about the typical girl who gets around 50%.  I checked the numbers to make sure I wasn't totally crazy.  Tuition is $10K in state and $27K out of state at OSU or $13.5K for an out of state student with a 50% scholarship.  Tuition is $6,500 at LB State for in state students.


----------



## NoGoal

Glen said:


> The distinction between those conferences providing some level of scholarship guarantee is very informative.
> 
> I am saying something a little different regarding costs.  A kid going to a Cal State school with no scholarship - maybe doesn't even play soccer (so scholarship guarantees don't become relevant) - is better off for So Cal job prospects and probably paying less than a kid from So Cal going to OSU and getting a 50% scholarship.  So the family/kid is really just paying an extra sports fee so their kid can play soccer at OSU.  People are free to do what they want with their money, but it is amusing to me at some level.  I also say this with a backdrop that I agree that there is no real career right now for girls to pursue professional soccer.  So to me the most important thing is getting the girl to a place that will provide her the most opportunities after college.  If you go to Stanford and some others, you can have the best both worlds.  But after that, I think we should guide them to prioritize the better school over the better soccer program.
> 
> And obviously there are a lot of different circumstances that could make OSU a good choice (maybe the kid gets a full ride or the kid has family in Ohio).  I'm talking about the typical girl who gets around 50%.  I checked the numbers to make sure I wasn't totally crazy.  Tuition is $10K in state and $27K out of state at OSU or $13.5K for an out of state student with a 50% scholarship.  Tuition is $6,500 at LB State for in state students.


Glen, preaching to the choir.  I agree with you 100%, education is first and foremost for womens soccer.  IMO, as long as any of our DDs receives their undergrad degree.  That's all that counts.

Don't forget if a student get's 50% at OSU it could include housing and books.  So 27K + 10K for housing and 1K for books at 50% is 19K per year.  My son goes to LB State and his tuition is 6.5K plus 10K for rent and food, and 1K for books.  So about the same at 17.5K a year.


----------



## NoGoal

soccerobserver said:


> Sped, I have a different perspective and think both views are legit. I have heard that some of the players at Stanford major in things like 'communications" etc...which is not the same as the kind of majors and educational experiences kids get at such schools who are not playing soccer. Also, one of Princeton's stars turned down Stanford for Princeton bc she wanted the high level educational experience she could get there while playing soccer as opposed to  what she could get playing higher level soccer at Stanford. Every player has to find the right fit based upon their own uniqueness.


Surprisingly Stanford has a lot of undeclared majors on the womens soccer team, but the few that have declared are majoring in Biology, Computer Science and Engineering along with a couple of Psychology majors.

http://www.gostanford.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc


----------



## soccer661

I believe at Stanford -- one doesn't declare a major until their junior year.


----------



## Zerodenero

NoGoal said:


> There are stories that M.A. wasn't accepted to Stanford.  I also know another player who was denied admissions at Stanford, but was accepted at an Ivy League School.  My guess is Ivies don't get as many YNT players, so the Ivy head coaches can get exceptions approved.  While Stanford is practically all YNT players, so less opportunities for exceptions being made.


NG- It's probably painful for your haters to read this.....but you're 100% accurate on this (again)


----------



## soccermanifesto

NoGoal said:


> There are stories that M.A. wasn't accepted to Stanford.  I also know another player who was denied admissions at Stanford, but was accepted at an Ivy League School.


I find this incredibly fishy.

The Head Coach is well aware of all his recruits test scores and grades and calls his recruits once a month on the phone starting their junior year.  The Head Coach has sway with the Dean of Admissions. 

Stanford does things like commit scholarship money to two YNT Goalkeepers that are the same year, but only one gets "admitted." Scholarship money now saved for another recruit, one player left scrambling but kept off the market for other top schools.

They are not above going after a player that's committed somewhere else too, even at a position where they seem stacked. 

Incredible school, great team though.


----------



## espola

soccermanifesto said:


> I find this incredibly fishy.
> 
> The Head Coach is well aware of all his recruits test scores and grades and calls his recruits once a month on the phone starting their junior year.  The Head Coach has sway with the Dean of Admissions.
> 
> Stanford does things like commit scholarship money to two YNT Goalkeepers that are the same year, but only one gets "admitted." Scholarship money now saved for another recruit, one player left scrambling but kept off the market for other top schools.
> 
> They are not above going after a player that's committed somewhere else too, even at a position where they seem stacked.
> 
> Incredible school, great team though.


In my conversations with college coaches (admittedly years ago) they stated that if they were interested in a player, and that player met the school's established minimums for admission, the coach could get him in.  At the time of concern, my son's GPA and test scores met the minimums for UC, but were not competitive at Davis, which is to say that without soccer, he wouldn't have gotten in there (in fact my daughter, with much better scores, was waitlisted at Davis before she got in).  We found out later that the coach had even more power than that - he could get some quantity of players he wanted in who had scores below the minimum, perhaps because the player fit one of the alternate entry doors, like diversity, legacy, or parental employment.


----------



## NoGoal

soccermanifesto said:


> I find this incredibly fishy.
> 
> The Head Coach is well aware of all his recruits test scores and grades and calls his recruits once a month on the phone starting their junior year.  The Head Coach has sway with the Dean of Admissions.
> 
> Stanford does things like commit scholarship money to two YNT Goalkeepers that are the same year, but only one gets "admitted." Scholarship money now saved for another recruit, one player left scrambling but kept off the market for other top schools.
> 
> They are not above going after a player that's committed somewhere else too, even at a position where they seem stacked.
> 
> Incredible school, great team though.


You may find if fishy, but the one I know is absolutely true!

Stanford was recruiting a former teammate of my DDs and I know for a fact Stanford's minimum GPA requirement is 3.50 without test scores.  Another buddy I know DD's was also being recruited by Stanford and he told me the same.  Every player is different, let's say hypothetically a player has the minimum 3.50 GPA, but still hasn't scored the minimum on the SAT/ACT for Stanford's admissions approval. The player keeps taking the test to meet the min. requirement until the admissions deadline.  Waiting pins and needles hoping the last test score meets minimum admissions requirement, only to be disappointed that it didn't. Player now has to scramble to find a new university.  Let's not forget the top players verbally commit as HS sophomores and my guess is 95% of the verbal commits haven't taken the SAT/ACT yet.

YNT players are a dime a dozen at Stanford.  I highly doubt the head coach can get exceptions for below admissions requirements with the reason, she is a YNT player.

For the record, L.R. vebally committed to Stanford first.  My question is why would another GK even consider verbally committing to Stanford, if they already had a verbally committed GK the same class year?  Especially the same GK the player competed against and lost to as a YNT pool player.


----------



## soccerobserver

soccermanifesto said:


> I find this incredibly fishy.
> 
> The Head Coach is well aware of all his recruits test scores and grades and calls his recruits once a month on the phone starting their junior year.  The Head Coach has sway with the Dean of Admissions.
> 
> Stanford does things like commit scholarship money to two YNT Goalkeepers that are the same year, but only one gets "admitted." Scholarship money now saved for another recruit, one player left scrambling but kept off the market for other top schools.
> 
> They are not above going after a player that's committed somewhere else too, even at a position where they seem stacked.
> 
> Incredible school, great team though.


SManfesto that seems perhaps a bit overly cynical? What you described also sounds like the GK who was not "admitted" in the end had scores or grades that did not make the minimums...even today some are re-taking the ACT  to get their scores up...the "offer" is not a guarantee...the HC at Yale and HVD were competing for a player who had not yet made the minimum SAT/ACT score and she kept taking it and retaking it...so her "offers" were conditional and she knew ahead of time that she was not quite "there" for those schools...I never found out what became of her but nothing would have been a suprise...


----------



## soccermanifesto

But no one is addressing the central question, why did Stanford go after, make financial promises to, and get verbal commits from two YNT GKs from the same year?

And why when they are stacked at a position, do they send feelers out to YNT players committed elsewhere? 

I wouldn't care if they were doing this with adult players, but Stanford's gonna Stanford I guess.   This system works for them and assures them getting the best players and being a perennial contender and powerhouse.  But some girls get crushed in the process and are left scrambling .   And that sucks.


----------



## Striker17

Great thread thanks for all the information!
I think another disservice are parents who are not realistic about their children's academic abilities. Take some CAL committs- know first hand about three of those CAL committs are doing very poorly in school, dislike school. I only wonder as a parent how that will translate in a rigorous academic environment? If the goal is just like on the boys football etc side to get exposure and then get out and play professionally fine but I wonder.
Not judging I just feel we Are learning a lot from those like you guys who came before us. Thanks for sharing all the realistic things that are happening. 
Another thing I have heard is that it's WORK. It's a JOB. One of my friends daughter just quit- hung up the cletes. Said to her dad that with social media she can see all her friends having fun,etc and she was"over it". 
I appreciate the parents who share the good bad and ugly so we can approach options realistically.


----------



## Striker17

soccerobserver said:


> Sped, I have a different perspective and think both views are legit. I have heard that some of the players at Stanford major in things like 'communications" etc...which is not the same as the kind of majors and educational experiences kids get at such schools who are not playing soccer. Also, one of Princeton's stars turned down Stanford for Princeton bc she wanted the high level educational experience she could get there while playing soccer as opposed to  what she could get playing higher level soccer at Stanford. Every player has to find the right fit based upon their own uniqueness.


I have heard the same as well. There is a very big difference between being a Stanford soccer player and a Princeton one and what that translates to academically.


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## NoGoal

soccermanifesto said:


> But no one is addressing the central question, why did Stanford go after, make financial promises to, and get verbal commits from two YNT GKs from the same year?
> 
> And why when they are stacked at a position, do they send feelers out to YNT players committed elsewhere?
> 
> I wouldn't care if they were doing this with adult players, but Stanford's gonna Stanford I guess.   This system works for them and assures them getting the best players and being a perennial contender and powerhouse.  But some girls get crushed in the process and are left scrambling .   And that sucks.


I agree it does suck, but they didn't force any of the players to commit.


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## NoGoal

Striker17 said:


> Great thread thanks for all the information!
> I think another disservice are parents who are not realistic about their children's academic abilities. Take some CAL committs- know first hand about three of those CAL committs are doing very poorly in school, dislike school. I only wonder as a parent how that will translate in a rigorous academic environment? If the goal is just like on the boys football etc side to get exposure and then get out and play professionally fine but I wonder.
> Not judging I just feel we Are learning a lot from those like you guys who came before us. Thanks for sharing all the realistic things that are happening.
> Another thing I have heard is that it's WORK. It's a JOB. One of my friends daughter just quit- hung up the cletes. Said to her dad that with social media she can see all her friends having fun,etc and she was"over it".
> I appreciate the parents who share the good bad and ugly so we can approach options realistically.


I agree, a player trying to select a university that balances both their playing ability and academic ability is difficult.  Unfortunately, when committing the player puts less weight on their academic ability.  A 3.50 GPA student at CAL or Stanford is like a CSL Silver level player playing on a YNT team.


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## Zerodenero

NoGoal said:


> I agree, a player trying to select a university that balances both their playing ability and academic ability is difficult.  Unfortunately, when committing the player doesn't weigh their academic ability.  A 3.50 GPA student at CAL or Stanford is like a CSL Silver level player playing on a YNT team.


I call it the "Fit Factor".


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## Zerodenero

Striker17 said:


> I have heard the same as well. There is a very big difference between being a Stanford soccer player and a Princeton one and what that translates to academically.


So....soccer player difference between the 2, totally follow ya. But the academic comment doesn't compute. ??


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## NoGoal

soccer661 said:


> I believe at Stanford -- one doesn't declare a major until their junior year.


Interesting if this is the case.  I wonder if Stanford has a different policy in place that guarantees undeclared students the major elected as Juniors.  Usually, an undeclared admitted student takes only GE classes.  If they do poorly in their GE classes, they can be denied admittance into an impacted program like pre-med, computer science or engineering and are left majoring in philosophy instead.

IMO, it's always best and safer to be admitted with a declared major vs undeclared.  This way the student is accepted into their specific program vs having to apply for it later.


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## SOCCERMINION

Zerodenero said:


> So....soccer player difference between the 2, totally follow ya. But the academic comment doesn't compute. ??








My DD gets accepted or partial to go to great school like Stanford, Game over she wins, reguardless of soccer.


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## Dos Equis

Striker17 said:


> I have heard the same as well. There is a very big difference between being a Stanford soccer player and a Princeton one and what that translates to academically.


Without further clarification, this qulaifies as one of the most useless posts of this, or the previous, forums.  

Please enlighten us with your insight.


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## Striker17

NoGoal said:


> You may find if fishy, but the one I know is absolutely true!
> 
> Stanford was recruiting a former teammate of my DDs and I know for a fact Stanford's minimum GPA requirement is 3.50 without test scores.  Another buddy I know DD's was also being recruited by Stanford and he told me the same.  Every player is different, let's say hypothetically a player has the minimum 3.50 GPA, but still hasn't scored the minimum on the SAT/ACT for Stanford's admissions approval. The player keeps taking the test to meet the min. requirement until the admissions deadline.  Waiting pins and needles hoping the last test score meets minimum admissions requirement, only to be disappointed that it didn't"
> 
> 
> 
> Dos Equis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without further clarification, this qulaifies as one of the most useless posts of this, or the previous, forums.
> 
> Please enlighten us with your insight.
> 
> 
> 
> When you show your level of intellect right off the first post and attack another person (who you don't know by the way) engaged in discussion, your opinion becomes irrelevant. In order to have meaningful discussion don't insult another person next time sport. This forum is rife with online cyber warriors isn't it?
> I may or may not have some personal experience here. I could truly care less if you are incapable of understanding the difference college socially, college academically, long term professionally of playing at Stanford vs an Ivy. I could truly care less if you are incapable of understanding the time and travel commitments of playing at Stanford vs and Ivy and the mental, physical, academic toll it takes on that athlete at Stanford. All that shows me is that you don't understand any nuance of what I am suggesting and/or lack the ability to view anything from a different perspective and I don't intend on spending my Sunday morning enlightening you.
Click to expand...


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## espola

You could help everyone understand your viewpoint if you actually stated your viewpoint.


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## Zerodenero

Striker17 said:


> My DD gets accepted or partial to go to great school like Stanford, Game over she wins, reguardless of soccer.


Believe it or not, it does happen.  Why you may say?....fit. We know a fam who's dd realistically looked at the rigors of admissions, her scores/test & if (again ... if) she got thru, she'd have to maintain. Where did she finally decide to go.... She's  currently at ND.

Another family/kid comes to mind on boys side (American football) who the kid is a complete stud on the field, even brighter in the class. Stanford offered the kid all that and a bag of chips, so when the dad (unassuming, but sharp guy who went to Caltech) Told them.... "thank you sir, but my boy's dream is to go to Harvard", they (Cardinal staff) were quite disappointed. This kid is now on his 2nd year at Cambridge (MA) wearing a different hue of red.

Doesnt happen often but it does happen.


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## soccerobserver

Zerodenero said:


> So....soccer player difference between the 2, totally follow ya. But the academic comment doesn't compute. ??


ZD and DosE, Strkr17 makes a legit point-Princeton is incredibly challenging academically. At Stanford for example you can drop classes at last minute and do many things to keep a high gpa. In contrast, Princeton almost relishes being difficult and in a way proud that their graduates were tested and humbled...no comparison... Then there is the weather...I don't even think Stanford has an indoor pool bc the weather is so nice all the time... Take that Princeton!


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## Zerodenero

soccerobserver said:


> ZD and DosE Princeton is incredibly challenging academically. At Stanford for example you can drop classes and do many things to keep a high gpa. Princeton almost relishes being difficult and in a way proud that their graduates were tested and humbled...no comparison... Then there is the weather...I don't even think Stanford has an indoor pool bc the weather is so nice all the time... Take that Princeton!


Clearly you have experience (as alum or parent) because you're 100% correct. Not to mention the mandatory psych councilling sessions student athletes must attend to offset the high rate of suicide at the ivies.


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## Zerodenero

Striker- It's  been said that "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree".....If that holds true, I'd say the future is bright for your dd and she's gonna b A-Ok because that retort/response is of Stanford/Ivy caliber


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## elephantchowder

As an 02 parent, when do I really have to be concerned about any of this?


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## NoGoal

elephantchowder said:


> As an 02 parent, when do I really have to be concerned about any of this?


What is an 02, a HS Freshmen?  If so, NOW!


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## soccerobserver

elephantchowder said:


> As an 02 parent, when do I really have to be concerned about any of this?


Elephantchow, it depends on what type of college your player wants to attend. If your kid wants to play d3 or Ivy there is plenty of time. Attending camps in summer of sophomore year in HS will be a good time to start but Vegas  and  other showcases and winter college ID camps as late as junior year or even summer after junior year can work also.


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## It won't matter later

soccermanifesto said:


> I find this incredibly fishy.
> 
> The Head Coach is well aware of all his recruits test scores and grades and calls his recruits once a month on the phone starting their junior year.  The Head Coach has sway with the Dean of Admissions.
> 
> Stanford does things like commit scholarship money to two YNT Goalkeepers that are the same year, but only one gets "admitted." Scholarship money now saved for another recruit, one player left scrambling but kept off the market for other top schools.
> 
> They are not above going after a player that's committed somewhere else too, even at a position where they seem stacked.
> 
> Incredible school, great team though.


It is absolutely true. Know the player well.  Stanford's loss and the Ivy's gain.  

My son was recruited by Stanford. (Different sport.) He has everything he needed. GPA, ACT etc. But, they came for a visit/check in and pulled grades and he had a C- in Latin at the time (bad quiz).  That was the end of their interest.   There are enough kids that are perfect out there they don't need to mess around.


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## elephantchowder

Thank you.  Freshman now.


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