# US Soccer / NWSL - Independent Investigation Report



## Technician72 (Oct 3, 2022)

A few of the articles / statements of the independent investigation:









						U.S. Soccer Releases Full Findings And Recommendations Of Sally Q. Yates’ Independent Investigation And Commits To Meaningful Changes And Immediate Actions
					

U.S. Soccer will act to thoroughly address the report’s recommendations, including by launching a new player-driven Participant Safety Taskforce to convene leaders at all levels of soccer to work to ensure a safe and respectful playing environment for all athletes




					www.ussoccer.com
				












						USSF report finds systemic abuse in NWSL
					

The independent investigation into player abuse in women's professional soccer revealed a long list of systemic failures within the game.




					www.espn.com
				












						Investigation finds systemic abuse and misconduct within women's professional soccer | CNN
					

An independent investigation has found systemic abuse and misconduct within women's professional soccer in the United States.




					www.cnn.com


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 3, 2022)

Colleges allow coaches to be mini tyrants + with scholarships they abuse/control/manipulate players in any way they see fit.

These same coaches are now trying to make it in the real world of professional sports + don't understand that you can't abuse/control/manipulate *employees* the same way you can with students. (Which is kind of a sad statement to say because it shouldn't be allowed to happen with students either.)


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## lafalafa (Oct 3, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Colleges allow coaches to be mini tyrants + with scholarships they abuse/control/manipulate players in any way they see fit.
> 
> These same coaches are now trying to make it in the real world of professional sports + don't understand that you can't abuse/control/manipulate *employees* the same way you can with students. (Which is kind of a sad statement to say because it shouldn't be allowed to happen with students either.)


Yup like I've been saying for years

It is not easy to keep silent when silence is a lie.
—  Victor Hugo

Those involved never came out and spoke up, issued anything or addressed the problems spaning several years


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## crush (Oct 4, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> *Those involved never came out and spoke up,* issued anything or addressed the problems spaning several years


Not true. I know a few that tried to speak up only to be mocked, blacklisted and kicked to the curb. Also, if you do a lawsuit of some sorts, no justice happens, only hush money is paid out and you best STFU or all your winnings will be taken from you. 98% of all lawsuits in up with a hush money deal and no justice is served. Hide behind expensive insurance plans and all you get is a bunch of men running around with power and control over girls and their parents. What else is new under the sun? I sure hope we can get this clean up so the girls can have fun and be happy


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## lafalafa (Oct 4, 2022)

crush said:


> Not true. I know a few that tried to speak up only to be mocked, blacklisted and kicked to the curb. Also, if you do a lawsuit of some sorts, no justice happens, only hush money is paid out and you best STFU or all your winnings will be taken from you. 98% of all lawsuits in up with a hush money deal and no justice is served. Hide behind expensive insurance plans and all you get is a bunch of men running around with power and control over girls and their parents. What else is new under the sun? I sure hope we can get this clean up so the girls can have fun and be happy


Yeah I'm referring to the coaches and admin people who remained dead silent thought out all the investigations and never issued anything, apologies or plans to address the problems.

The victim players yes they spoken up before, during, and now after.

This report was mostly based on things that happened later Oct 2021 or earlier.    From nov-June 2022 there are more instances they are still under investigation with coaches suspended that have no chance of returning now.


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## lafalafa (Oct 4, 2022)

From the ESPN article linked from above

"There are too many athletes who still suffer in silence because they are scared that no one will help them or hear them," Simon said in a statement through a spokesperson. "I know because that is how I felt. Through many difficult days, my faith alone sustained me and kept me going. I want to do everything in my power to ensure that no other player must experience what I did. This report allows our voices to finally be heard and is the first step toward achieving the respectful workplace we all deserve. It is my sincere hope that the pain we have all experienced and the change we have all brought about will be for the good of our league and this game we all deeply love."


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 4, 2022)

This will all stop once colleges end the scholarship scam + start paying players as employees.

1. Employees have certain rights + can take employers to court if they're being abused (scholarship awardees have no rights and can't complain in any way) 
2. Employees can have representation (agents) and can unionize to protect themselves

Right now all the power is in the Collages / Coaches hands. Change the rules + the abuse stops and instantly + all the "problems" go away.

The reason groups like the NWSL is having issues like this is because they're pulling leadership from the College pool. Taking advantage of players via scholarships + bullying is all they know. If colleges played by the same rules as the professional teams there wouldn't be in issue.


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## tjinaz (Oct 4, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> This will all stop once colleges end the scholarship scam + start paying players as employees.
> 
> 1. Employees have certain rights + can take employers to court if they're being abused (scholarship awardees have no rights and can't complain in any way)
> 2. Employees can have representation (agents) and can unionize to protect themselves
> ...


I am not sure this is unique to any college sport.  I have seen mens soccer, football, baseball and especially basketball practices where the coach is on par with a drill instructor level of verbal abuse.  Some coaches are thinkers, motivators but a lot of the old school ones are tyrants (Bobby Knight anyone) so long as they run a successful program all is forgiven.  I think the answer to this is already found.  The Transfer portal.  Coaches have less control now than they ever had.  they can no longer threaten players and hide them until they submit.  Player doesn't like the way its going.. hit the portal and go to another team.  Enough or specific players do it and the program is unsuccessful and the coach is fired.

I disagree about making them employees. At that point what is the difference between pro and college?


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 4, 2022)

tjinaz said:


> I disagree about making them employees. At that point what is the difference between pro and college?


The whole concept of being an "amateur" + providing a physical result in a team environment for no $$$ makes no sense to me.

Colleges make WAY more value from a winning football team than the players receive. If you take a step back and look at the potential professional careers of college athletes it's probably 3-5 years total on average. Colleges are subverting the players most valuable earning years by dangling scholarships in front of players and controlling the pipeline to the pros.


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## tjinaz (Oct 4, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> The whole concept of being an "amateur" + providing a physical result in a team environment for no $$$ makes no sense to me.
> 
> Colleges make WAY more value from a winning football team than the players receive. If you take a step back and look at the potential professional careers of college athletes it's probably 3-5 years total on average. Colleges are subverting the players most valuable earning years by dangling scholarships in front of players and controlling the pipeline to the pros.


OK so where do you draw the line?  USC's boosters program has tons of cash, they can just pay their "employees" much more than say UCLA and get the best players.  Well UT's boosters don't like losing so they are going to up their "employees" salaries because Alabama is paying more and recruiting the better players.  Any pretense of being students anymore is lost they are athletes that go where they can make the most money and not even have to wait until they graduate.


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## crush (Oct 4, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> This will all stop once colleges end the scholarship scam + start paying players as employees.
> 
> 1. Employees have certain rights + can take employers to court if they're being abused (scholarship awardees have no rights and can't complain in any way)
> 2. Employees can have representation (agents) and can unionize to protect themselves
> ...


It would be cool if each top club became a professional soccer academy and not a charity organization helping kids get into college. Senior Team. U18, U16 and so on. The academy trains you to be a soccer player only. Then when kid is of age, they can choose a pro route, semi pro route, a just for fun route or a college route. Our soccer system is all about college only leagues during HS. In fact, our society says it's college or your a loser to all the kids. I lived this for many years and no one can deny what I'm saying. Soccer should have always been a stand alone and not forced to be college after HS. I'm not saying college can't and won't help you. It's just not for everyone and soccer should be for everyone. The cost to play youth soccer is way over $15K a year now. Insane. Based on the facts, the girls at the very top of soccer have been treated like shit. Gee, I wonder how the youth players have been treated?  Clean up time mom and dad. Why? Do it for the next group of females. This will only change when parents say enough is enough.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 4, 2022)

tjinaz said:


> OK so where do you draw the line?  USC's boosters program has tons of cash, they can just pay their "employees" much more than say UCLA and get the best players.  Well UT's boosters don't like losing so they are going to up their "employees" salaries because Alabama is paying more and recruiting the better players.  Any pretense of being students anymore is lost they are athletes that go where they can make the most money and not even have to wait until they graduate.


I don't care where they "draw the line" students that play sports while representing a college or university should be paid in accordance with their specific skillset.  

If you don't pay the players it just perpetuates the scholarship system that bullies/exploits student athletes.


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## tjinaz (Oct 4, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I don't care where they "draw the line" students that play sports while representing a college or university should be paid in accordance with their specific skillset.
> 
> If you don't pay the players it just perpetuates the scholarship system that bullies/exploits student athletes.


I think the NWSL report indicated the players even getting paid were "bullied and exploited".  Only place that doesn't happen is when the player is making millions and were bankable assets.  Unless they were a superstar from the get go they were bullied and exploited somewhere along the line I don't think getting paid will solve this.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 4, 2022)

tjinaz said:


> I think the NWSL report indicated the players even getting paid were "bullied and exploited".  Only place that doesn't happen is when the player is making millions and were bankable assets.  Unless they were a superstar from the get go they were bullied and exploited somewhere along the line I don't think getting paid will solve this.


At least you'd have some $$$ after being bullied and exploited vs dropped cold from a scholarship at whatever whim the coach defines.

Also if players were employees coaches would have to provide a defined justification for dropping a player. The "she wouldn't sleep with me" so I'm going to pull her scholarship nonsense would stop.


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## crush (Oct 4, 2022)

tjinaz said:


> I am not sure this is unique to any college sport.  I have seen mens soccer, football, baseball and especially basketball practices where the coach is on par with a drill instructor level of verbal abuse.  Some coaches are thinkers, motivators but a lot of the old school ones are tyrants (Bobby Knight anyone) so long as they run a successful program all is forgiven.  I think the answer to this is already found.  The Transfer portal.  Coaches have less control now than they ever had.  they can no longer threaten players and hide them until they submit.  Player doesn't like the way its going.. hit the portal and go to another team.  Enough or specific players do it and the program is unsuccessful and the coach is fired.
> 
> I disagree about making them employees. At that point what is the difference between pro and college?


Treat them all with my respect, which is treating them better than employees. I know a 2021 that hit the transfer button because of a crazy coach. She is on a team now that has a respectful coach and that other coach got fired. I still remember the movie One on One and Robbie Benson. Coach from Western U was a complete asshole.


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## tjinaz (Oct 4, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> At least you'd have some $$$ after being bullied and exploited vs dropped cold from a scholarship at whatever whim the coach defines.
> 
> Also if players were employees coaches would have to provide a defined justification for dropping a player. The "she wouldn't sleep with me" so I'm going to pull her scholarship nonsense would stop.


um.. in most states unless you are union you can be fired for any reason and your employer doesn't have to justify anything.  So don't think that applies here.


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## outside! (Oct 4, 2022)

While not a total solution, I think an anonymous one question survey for all departing players from a program would help. "Would you recommend this coach to new recruits?" Then post the ratings publicly. Any coach with negative ratings above a certain percentage would have a difficult time recruiting.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 5, 2022)

I Listened to a podcast about this topic and they mentioned that 70% of one of the NWSL club players had been verbally abused during their youth soccer years.    Some of the girls didn’t even know the difference between abuse and regular coach talk.   A lot of these coaches start their bad behavior at the youth level. We all know who they are and where they coached.  All  these idiots who think they are bigger than life got away with it because parents allowed it.


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## crush (Oct 5, 2022)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I Listened to a podcast about this topic and they mentioned that 70% of one of the NWSL club players had been verbally abused during their youth soccer years.    Some of the girls didn’t even know the difference between abuse and regular coach talk.   A lot of these coaches start their bad behavior at the youth level. We all know who they are and where they coached.  All  these idiots who think they are bigger than life got away with it because parents allowed it.


"The more I yell at you, the more I care about you."
"Stop crying. Are you on your period?"
"Boyfriends are big problems if you want to play at highest level."
"You need to do my privates to get better"
"It's best for you to STFU if you want the next level"
"I know everyone and my recommendation is worth admissions. It can also work the other way so STFU!"


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## younothat (Oct 5, 2022)

USWNT captain Becky Sauerbrunn wants execs 'gone' after 'abhorrent' failures amid abuse

Sauerbrunn said Tuesday that she wants those enablers "gone."








						USWNT captain Becky Sauerbrunn wants execs 'gone' after 'abhorrent' failures amid abuse
					

Becky Sauerbrunn spoke emotionally one day after the Yates Report, and said the USWNT players are "not doing well." She also said the executives who failed players "should be gone."




					sports.yahoo.com
				




Yeah the problems are much deeper vs just the coaches, assistants, etc really the enablers, execs, managers, admin people also had a hand in the abuse, covered ups, etc.

The part where the bad actors get reshuffled around, get now jobs without the details of investigations,  why they where let go, etc are not share with other potential employers, GP or anything. Burying the dirty laundry has gone on for too long, time to come clean and get rid of the abusers out of the system once and for all.


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## Simisoccerfan (Oct 5, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> This will all stop once colleges end the scholarship scam + start paying players as employees.
> 
> 1. Employees have certain rights + can take employers to court if they're being abused (scholarship awardees have no rights and can't complain in any way)
> 2. Employees can have representation (agents) and can unionize to protect themselves
> ...


All of the money would go to men's football and basketball.  Women's athletes would make minimum wage which would be a lot less than what they currently get in from a scholarship.


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## MacDre (Oct 5, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> This will all stop once colleges end the scholarship scam + start paying players as employees.
> 
> 1. Employees have certain rights + can take employers to court if they're being abused (scholarship awardees have no rights and can't complain in any way)
> 2. Employees can have representation (agents) and can unionize to protect themselves
> ...


I think students at private universities have protections similar to employees.  I think students at public universities have more protection than employees.  I think the problem that students have is that they can’t afford a lawyer from the beginning of the “administrative” process through trial if necessary.

1.  Whether private or public school students, the fight begins by familiarizing oneself with the student handbook similar to how employees have to familiarize themselves with their employment handbook to know their rights for protection;

2.  Public universities are government actors, so in theory the Constitution should provide protection through a due process claim.  The Constitution requires fairness.  So if a student can prove a.)  They were treated unfairly and b.). they suffered damages from the unfair treatment, they should in theory prevail with their “ConstitutionalTort” due process  claim.
3.  Private universities are not government actors so the student handbook is essentially a contract between the school and student.  Inherent in every contract whether explicitly stated or not is the “Implied Covenant of Good Faith and Fair Dealing.”  So again, if a student can a.) prove they were treated unfairly and b.) prove damages they prevail under contract law for a breach of the Implied Covenant of Good Faith and Fair Dealing.

I don’t think most students have the money to pay for an attorney.  These are not the types of cases attorneys take on contingency.  Most pro bono attorneys would rather help a family getting evicted, a disabled person apply for SSDI, elder abuse, wrongful convictions etc.

so yeah, I see access to good attorneys as the problem.


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## crush (Oct 6, 2022)

younothat said:


> USWNT captain Becky Sauerbrunn wants execs 'gone' after 'abhorrent' failures amid abuse
> 
> Sauerbrunn said Tuesday that she wants those enablers "gone."
> 
> ...


The insurance company buys the dirty laundry from the plaintiff. The true value of the dirty laundry depends on how the depositions & discovery go. For example, if the defendant is caught lying through their teeth on video, well then the pay out is enough to buy silence.


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## SurFutbol (Oct 6, 2022)

The Yates report that USSF paid for recommends that USSF re-exert much of the control over the NWSL that it gave up last year, ironically because of misconduct that occurred when the USSF was still managing it.  The misconduct that occurred is the inevitable byproduct of centralized control that USSF has imposed on every level of soccer for decades.  US Gymnastics is the only other national sports governing body that ever exerted as much control over an entire sport and look what happened there.


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## younothat (Oct 6, 2022)

Well looks like this is spilling over to the men's side now also,  lets see what happens in the youth environments

USL Statement on Sally Yates Report.


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## crush (Oct 7, 2022)

Well, it looks like the girls from the FBI had it rough as well.








						Whistleblowers reveal pattern of sexual harassment, sexual misconduct at FBI
					

A hostile work environment of sexual harassment and retaliation against female agents who complain about it have persisted at the FBI for more than a year after FBI Director Christopher A. Wray pledged to fix the problem, according to several whistleblowers.




					www.washingtontimes.com
				




A hostile work environment of sexual harassment and retaliation against female agents who complain about it have persisted at the FBI for more than a year after FBI Director *Christopher A. Wray pledged to fix the problem*, according to several whistleblowers.


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## crush (Oct 7, 2022)

younothat said:


> Well looks like this is spilling over to the men's side now also,  lets see what happens in the youth environments
> 
> USL Statement on Sally Yates Report.
> 
> View attachment 14813


Amen! The worse thing a coach can say to a child is, "if you complain to your parents about my coaching & yelling, you will sit on the bench when YNT scouts and college coaches are watching. I will tell them everything about you."


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## tjinaz (Oct 7, 2022)

MacDre said:


> I think students at private universities have protections similar to employees.  I think students at public universities have more protection than employees.  I think the problem that students have is that they can’t afford a lawyer from the beginning of the “administrative” process through trial if necessary.
> 
> 1.  Whether private or public school students, the fight begins by familiarizing oneself with the student handbook similar to how employees have to familiarize themselves with their employment handbook to know their rights for protection;
> 
> ...


Constitution?  mmm.

Or there is this, and remember CA is pretty liberal so is on the upper end of the scale.  If you are sexually harassed you can report it and then if they fire you you can sue but beyond that if they don't like how you sneeze or think you don't work hard enough you can simply be fired.  It is very subjective.

California rules for firing

summary - 
*Can I Be Fired For No Reason in California?*
*Wrongful Termination Discrimination Attorneys in California*
California is an at-will state, which means that an employer can fire you for any reason at any time, with or without cause. This means that if your boss doesn’t like your personality, if you run out of work, if they think you’re lazy, or if they just don’t need you anymore, they can fire you at any time.

Most employee handbooks now include a disclaimer about at-will employment. Most employee handbooks define at-will employment and ask employees to sign an acceptance of the company’s at-will status. At-will employees, however, have the right not to be terminated for reasons that are illegal under state and federal law.

Being an at-will employee does not give your employer all the reasons to fire you, and there are exceptions. *An employer can’t terminate you for any illegal reason.

Some illegal reasons for terminating an employee in California include discrimination based on:*


Age (*40+*)
Sex
Gender
Religious belief
Sexual orientation
Nationality
Race
You also cannot be fired for taking leave under the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA).
Finally, you cannot be fired in retaliation for reporting your employer’s illegal activities (such as sexual harassment) or for participating in an investigation of illegal activity.
*If you are fired for any of these reasons, it is considered wrongful termination and you may be entitled to sue the employer for discrimination.*

There are also other occasions where an employer can’t easily fire an employee, such as if the employee has an employment contract with the employer or if the employee is a member of a union and is covered under a union collective bargaining agreement.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 7, 2022)

MacDre said:


> I think students at private universities have protections similar to employees.  I think students at public universities have more protection than employees.  I think the problem that students have is that they can’t afford a lawyer from the beginning of the “administrative” process through trial if necessary.
> 
> 1.  Whether private or public school students, the fight begins by familiarizing oneself with the student handbook similar to how employees have to familiarize themselves with their employment handbook to know their rights for protection;
> 
> ...


I don't know if you've ever been in a college town before but in those situations Colleges "own" the local police force.

Even if students had $$$ what law firm would take the case when 1/2 (or more) of their partners are alumni of the college students would like to sue.

This is what the NWSL players mean by addressing power vs title or position/role.

Again the easy way to solve all this is to *pay the players + make them employees*. All the lawsuits + scandals + abuse would go away because it would be addressed legally in court where there are established processes + standards.


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## crush (Oct 7, 2022)

tjinaz said:


> Constitution?  mmm.
> 
> Or there is this, and remember CA is pretty liberal so is on the upper end of the scale.  If you are sexually harassed you can report it and then if they fire you you can sue but beyond that if they don't like how you sneeze or think you don't work hard enough you can simply be fired.  It is very subjective.
> 
> ...


Or if their pregnant or complain to higher up managers about unhealthy working conditions. Unsafe working conditions for mental health. Threats & Intimidation + Retaliation is no reason to fire and best to work things out.


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## SurFutbol (Oct 7, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> This will all stop once colleges end the scholarship scam + start paying players as employees.
> 
> 1. Employees have certain rights + can take employers to court if they're being abused (scholarship awardees have no rights and can't complain in any way)
> 2. Employees can have representation (agents) and can unionize to protect themselves
> ...


None of the three individuals discussed in the Yates report ever worked as a collegiate head coach.  All of their head coaching experience occurred in professional leagues in which player employees had representation.  Neither of the two other individuals who were recently fired by Thorns as a result of this had prior involvement in college soccer either.


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## MacDre (Oct 7, 2022)

tjinaz said:


> Constitution?  mmm.
> 
> Or there is this, and remember CA is pretty liberal so is on the upper end of the scale.  If you are sexually harassed you can report it and then if they fire you you can sue but beyond that if they don't like how you sneeze or think you don't work hard enough you can simply be fired.  It is very subjective.
> 
> ...


I agree that if you are not in a “protected class” that there is not much protection in “at-will” states and even less protections in “right-to-work” states.  Seems to me then, that students may have more rights than employees because either the Constitution or Contract law requires ALL students be treated fairly.  I think is fair to say that in the employment context, the law doesn’t care how one is treated unless they are in a protected class.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 7, 2022)

SurFutbol said:


> None of the three individuals discussed in the Yates report ever worked as a collegiate head coach.  All of their head coaching experience occurred in professional leagues in which player employees had representation.  Neither of the two other individuals who were recently fired by Thorns as a result of this had prior involvement in college soccer either.


"The investigation was initiated following a report in The Athletic in 2021 that detailed allegations of sexual harassment and coercion from 2015 made against former Portland Thorns manager *Paul Riley*. Former Thorns players Mana Shim and Sinead Farrelly alleged that Riley invited both players back to his apartment and asked them to kiss each other in exchange for getting the team out of a conditioning drill the next day, as well as drinking with players and sending lewd photos to Shim. "

Paul Riley coached for CW Post now called LIU Post or Long Island University from 1986 to 1997


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## SurFutbol (Oct 7, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> "The investigation was initiated following a report in The Athletic in 2021 that detailed allegations of sexual harassment and coercion from 2015 made against former Portland Thorns manager *Paul Riley*. Former Thorns players Mana Shim and Sinead Farrelly alleged that Riley invited both players back to his apartment and asked them to kiss each other in exchange for getting the team out of a conditioning drill the next day, as well as drinking with players and sending lewd photos to Shim. "
> 
> Paul Riley coached for CW Post now called LIU Post or Long Island University from 1986 to 1997


I stand corrected.  Two of the three never had any involvement in collegiate soccer.  The third was a head coach at a college no one had ever heard of 25-30 years ago and which was not Division 1 and therefore did not have college scholarships when he was there.


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## MacDre (Oct 7, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I don't know if you've ever been in a college town before but in those situations Colleges "own" the local police force.
> 
> Even if students had $$$ what law firm would take the case when 1/2 (or more) of their partners are alumni of the college students would like to sue.
> 
> ...


Definitely hard to get legal representation.  I definitely think there’s bias.


Carlsbad7 said:


> I don't know if you've ever been in a college town before but in those situations Colleges "own" the local police force.
> 
> Even if students had $$$ what law firm would take the case when 1/2 (or more) of their partners are alumni of the college students would like to sue.
> 
> ...


I agree access to legal representation needs to be better.  I’m not really interested in suing my undergrad or law school.  But, I don’t think employment law is a magical solution.  The following case provided for a heated debate when I was in law school:


			Jones v. Clinton | Case Brief for Law School | LexisNexis


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## crush (Oct 7, 2022)

SurFutbol said:


> I stand corrected.  Two of the three never had any involvement in collegiate soccer.  The third was a head coach at a college no one had ever heard of 25-30 years ago and which was not Division 1 and therefore did not have college scholarships when he was there.


I will say some of the coaches are dating and some marry their players in college.

DD: Dad, I'm in love and I'm getting married
Dad: Wow, whose the lucky guy/girl
DD: Coach


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 7, 2022)

SurFutbol said:


> I stand corrected.  Two of the three never had any involvement in collegiate soccer.  The third was a head coach at a college no one had ever heard of 25-30 years ago and which was not Division 1 and therefore did not have college scholarships when he was there.


Wrong again...

The LIU Sharks are the athletics teams representing Long Island University's (LIU) campuses in Brooklyn and Brookville, New York. The Sharks compete in *NCAA Division I athletics* and are members of the Northeast Conference.


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## SurFutbol (Oct 7, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Wrong again...
> 
> The LIU Sharks are the athletics teams representing Long Island University's (LIU) campuses in Brooklyn and Brookville, New York. The Sharks compete in *NCAA Division I athletics* and are members of the Northeast Conference.


Yes, 20 years after he left they moved to D1.


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## crush (Oct 7, 2022)

I had a top Doc warn me back in the day about the truth and of the realities of some of the very top soccer programs, in Youth, College and Pros in the US. The top players were getting signed in 8th grade back then as well from Big U, so keep that in mine. He told me about one of his top players ((YNT and top player in Socal)) already signed that got a boyfriend in High School and slacked off her Senior year. She was confused with what she wanted in life. Her parents wanted the college she worked hard to get a full ride in soccer and school. Dream school with a very intense coach. She showed up out of shape and failed beep test and puked. Coach pulled her by the ponytail and whispered in her ear: "You won't like it here and based on what I'm seeing, you won;t ever play here." She heard all she needed and quit. Married her boyfriend and all is good. Their has to be a better way to deal with the girls. Parents also need to listen to their dd. I know one parent that flew across the country to spend a few months with her dd. Depression and she needed her mom because her coach was super insensitive and did not have time or training in mental health.


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## lafalafa (Oct 7, 2022)

SurFutbol said:


> None of the three individuals discussed in the Yates report ever worked as a collegiate head coach.  All of their head coaching experience occurred in professional leagues in which player employees had representation.  Neither of the two other individuals who were recently fired by Thorns as a result of this had prior involvement in college soccer either.


No 5 coaches suspended from NWSL, 3 out of the 5 college coaches so yeah the majority says otherwise.

Yates report only covers the abuse up until Oct 2021
2 additional coaches let go bewtween that time and June 2022.

Your lacking facts attempt to spin this any other way goes to your lack of creditable or other motives.


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## crush (Oct 7, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> No 5 coaches suspended from NWSL, 3 out of the 5 college coaches so yeah the majority says otherwise.
> 
> Yates report only covers the abuse up until Oct 2021
> 2 additional coaches let go bewtween that time and June 2022.
> ...


It started at the youth, jumped over the college game and only happen at the Pro level from the Pro coaches. This behavior has been going on since the beginning of time. The girls don't want to be yelled at. They don't want to be lied to and manipulated. I love women because they like the hearing the truth and their tough as nails. If you yell as coach, learn not to yell. If you have hard time, seek help. If you can't stop yelling at females, coach some other place. Women want to be treated with respect, hello!!!


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## Soccer43 (Oct 7, 2022)

How about you remember they are athletes and don't treat them like a piece of meat, prostitute, or sex slave for your own enjoyment?  It's a pretty simple rule to follow except for those that are egotistical power hungry narcissistic jackoffs.  My daughter is not on your team for your own pleasure and entertainment for you to manipulate, pressure, bully, and harass her whenever you feel like it.  What is going to create true change?  don't feel too hopeful about it as there is an insidious malicious aspect that will continue to thrive, perpetuated by those in power.  I fear it will just go underground for a bit till things calm down and this will still go on.


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## crush (Oct 8, 2022)




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## lafalafa (Oct 8, 2022)

Change is needed


__
		http://instagr.am/p/Cjbl7jLvcv6/


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## crush (Oct 8, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> Change is needed
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Cjbl7jLvcv6/


"Youth & Up" needs changing she said. Change is needed and change is coming. Soccer is a beautiful sport and girls love to play with their friends and have fun and support each other and compete. Something happen that took the fun a way and made it so cut throat and so many other things. Soccer by itself should be fun and bring happiness to one's soul, IMOO!!!I I look forward to the day that change happens and soccer will be just a sport to be played, to grow from, to learn from and to be respected from, not used as a weapon or some admissions or for someone's abusive nature. Tad Bobak has over 40 years of coaching the female youth. I'm not talking about Tad the biz man or anything about the Blues. I'm only talking about the way Tad talked and treated top female soccer players in our country. Maybe someone should listen to him and talk with his former players.  We have many good coaches out there 100% and we need to hear from them. Let's see what happens. TY Tad for not yelling at my dd for over two years of her being coach in her important youth years. You set the standard, TY!


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## crush (Oct 8, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> Change is needed
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Cjbl7jLvcv6/


More complaints have come forward. Fear keeps folks quite. 








						NWSL: Further allegations of abuse since report
					

USSF president Cindy Parlow Cone said that further allegations of abuse have come to light since the publication of the Yates report on Monday.




					www.espn.com


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## Soccer43 (Oct 8, 2022)

It’s not just soccer -a huge story about a South Carolina competitive cheerleading gym - 6 coaches now named in law suits and potential of 100 victims - makes me sick

 Here’s an article about it

Cheerleading sex abuse scandal


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## crush (Oct 9, 2022)

*Owners, executives and coaches failed to act on years of reports *((I tried to talk to the higher ups in 2017 about a few things and I was told to STFU or else. I came on here because no one at soccer head quarters wanted to hear from a crazy ass emotional hawk dad like me. I have pals who went through the same stuff in college and their dd was punished and retaliated against because of speaking out on cold hearted yellers and abusers))

“Teams, the League, and the* Federation not only repeatedly failed to respond* appropriately when confronted with player reports and evidence of abuse, they also failed to institute basic

measures to prevent and address it, even as some leaders privately acknowledged the need for workplace protections,” the report noted.

“As a *result, abusive coaches moved from team to team*, *laundered by press releases thanking them for their service*, and positive references from teams that minimized or even concealed misconduct. Those at the NWSL and* USSF in a position to correct the record stayed silent. *

“*In general*, teams, the NWSL, and *USSF appear to have prioritized concerns of legal exposure *to litigation by coaches—and the risk of drawing negative attention to the team or League—over player safety and well-being,” the report noted.

I tried to speak up you guys, I really did. I did it because what I saw was wrong. Maybe my style ((satire mixed with truth)) was a little different for some of you, but I needed to wake some of you up because no one at HQs took me serious. In fact, I was told to STFU or my dd chance of anything National or local is over because of my big mouth. All the girls and women who need to speak up and share their stories will now, so let's give them that chance, without fear of punishment or losing the opportunity to play a sport they love to play, whatever the level of play, pro or youth. This is a systematic abuse problem in the beautiful game of female girls soccer. Can't we all just pause for a few and get this right so the next group of girls can be treated better and with respect this time. Too much power in some coaches hands. In 2017, these Docs/Coach/US Soccer Training Center Director ((yes, some held 3 positions in soccer and some worked as scouts for US Soccer))) for the GDA had something all top players wanted. The top players wanted to make The List for U14, U15, U16, U17 and U18 National Team. I kept saying to anyone who would listen that this much power in one of the bad docs hands is dangerous for the players trying to get his recommendation. They all moved round to round you guys.


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## crush (Oct 9, 2022)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I Listened to a podcast about this topic and they mentioned that 70% of one of the NWSL club players had been verbally abused during their youth soccer years.    Some of the girls didn’t even know the difference between abuse and regular coach talk.   A lot of these coaches start their bad behavior at the youth level. We all know who they are and where they coached.  All  these idiots who think they are bigger than life got away with it because parents allowed it.


They ((Coach, Doc, club owner)) have connections to what the parents want. It's a big biz. That middleman Rick the Singer got rich parents to pay $250,000 per spot on a sports team. No promise of play time, just admissions. Based on these facts, some parents are willing to "pay whatever it takes" to play and get on the team. We really need to rescue the sport of soccer so it's free. We also need to set free dd and just let her go have fun and play this great sport. At the right age, they can decide which route to take in soccer. The biggest bummer for me besides all the lies in 2017-2018 was the fact my kid was kicked out of a league from US Soccer that would not allow the girls to play locally and with their peers in high school. The mental anguish teens went through was tough in the travel league. Missed days of school, 10 months of 4 to 5 days a week of soccer only. Told not to play locally with their friends)) English dudes had no clue the importantance of playing soccer with your friends at school and try and win CIF. When the girls at the private schools told the league and their dads to F off and their playing HSS anyways, they changed the rules at the last minute to allow the Private School kids a waiver but no waiver for the poor hss student at public school. I was told to STFU and go play ECNL and be happy...lol!


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## Keeperkat (Oct 9, 2022)

MacDre said:


> I think students at private universities have protections similar to employees.  I think students at public universities have more protection than employees.  I think the problem that students have is that they can’t afford a lawyer from the beginning of the “administrative” process through trial if necessary.
> 
> 1.  Whether private or public school students, the fight begins by familiarizing oneself with the student handbook similar to how employees have to familiarize themselves with their employment handbook to know their rights for protection;
> 
> ...


Unfortunately filing a claim with the OCR doesn't really do much to protect a student.  Even with a finding by the OCR, nothing much happens unless of course it is a heavily reported case with multiple people and it certainly doesn't happen timely.  The whole process takes at least a year and many cases are open for 2 or more years.  Also, it depends on what administration is in leadership that determines how cases are handled.  It is a big paper pushing exercise with little to no impact on protecting students.


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## Keeperkat (Oct 9, 2022)

Like members of the women’s swim team, women’s soccer players also had their complaints ignored by athletic department administrators.

“We started talking and the two [administrators] looked at us like we had five heads,” Sekany said. “They said they had never heard anything bad about Neil McGuire. When we used terms like ‘emotional abuse,’ they were condescending in a way, as if we didn’t understand the implications of using terminology like that — which we did. We discussed it at length and decided it was absolutely an appropriate term to describe what he’d been doing to us.”

Years earlier, Koski said her formal complaint was also ignored by administrators.

Cal told KTVU that it was conducting a review of the allegations against McGuire. *But nothing has been released publicly in the nearly two years since, and he has continued to coach, uninterrupted, during that time.* The university’s communications director told KTVU in 2020 that “this year’s recruiting class for our women’s soccer team was ranked No. 1 in the country, a sure sign of the program’s quality and excellent reputation.”

McGuire’s squad has actually underperformed under his leadership as of late. Over the past two seasons, Cal has gone just 13-14-4. During McGuire’s 15-year tenure, Cal has been to 12 NCAA Tournaments, but only one since 2018. The farthest they’ve been in the NCAA tournament under McGuire is the second round, and they haven’t made it that far since 2014. His contract was renewed this year.









						What Does Cal's Soccer Coach Have to Do With Teri McKeever Investigation?
					

Cal women's swim coach Teri McKeever and her attorney are arguing that her alleged abuse is "normal coaching behavior" for her male counterparts.




					swimswam.com


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## Keeperkat (Oct 9, 2022)

Keeperkat said:


> Unfortunately filing a claim with the OCR doesn't really do much to protect a student.  Even with a finding by the OCR, nothing much happens unless of course it is a heavily reported case with multiple people and it certainly doesn't happen timely.  The whole process takes at least a year and many cases are open for 2 or more years.  Also, it depends on what administration is in leadership that determines how cases are handled.  It is a big paper pushing exercise with little to no impact on protecting students.


And...it is worth mentioning...the Berkeley coach issues probably couldn't be filed with the OCR unless the complaint could show the players were abused because of their inclusion of a protected class (i.e. gender, disability etc.)  There is no protections from emotional abuse in and of itself that I am aware of.  Can they make the argument they were abused because they were a female?  Were they sexually harassed? Then they are part of a protected class.  If not, then I don't believe they have any where to go.


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## crush (Oct 10, 2022)




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## SurFutbol (Oct 10, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> No 5 coaches suspended from NWSL, 3 out of the 5 college coaches so yeah the majority says otherwise.
> 
> Yates report only covers the abuse up until Oct 2021
> 2 additional coaches let go bewtween that time and June 2022.
> ...


I'm not sure what you are talking about.  Again, 2 of the 3 coaches who were investigated in the Yates report never coached college, and the third coached college 25 years ago in D2 or D3, and did not have scholarships.  James Clarkson at Dash was also suspended this year, and he also never coached college. Nor did Farid Benstiti who also stepped down from Reign. Richie Burke was fired by Spirit and he also never coached soccer. The only NWSL coach that I am aware of who has been suspended who had any real college experience is Cromwell, and no one knows what she allegedly did, let alone whether it has merit.

I am not trying to spin anything.  The only ones spinning anything are those claiming that college scholarships causes harassment in the NWSL despite overwhelming facts establish the contrary.


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## lafalafa (Oct 10, 2022)

SurFutbol said:


> I'm not sure what you are talking about.  Again, 2 of the 3 coaches who were investigated in the Yates report never coached college, and the third coached college 25 years ago in D2 or D3, and did not have scholarships.  James Clarkson at Dash was also suspended this year, and he also never coached college. Nor did Farid Benstiti who also stepped down from Reign. Richie Burke was fired by Spirit and he also never coached soccer. The only NWSL coach that I am aware of who has been suspended who had any real college experience is Cromwell, and no one knows what she allegedly did, let alone whether it has merit.
> 
> I am not trying to spin anything.  The only ones spinning anything are those claiming that college scholarships causes harassment in the NWSL despite overwhelming facts establish the contrary.


5 coaches suspended from NWSL not 2 or 3. 

The yates report only covers to Oct 2021 and just part of the problems. 

Did you miss all the other recent interviews, articles, testimonials or are you ignoring the facts and the bigger picture?


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 10, 2022)

SurFutbol said:


> I'm not sure what you are talking about.  Again, 2 of the 3 coaches who were investigated in the Yates report never coached college, and the third coached college 25 years ago in D2 or D3, and did not have scholarships.  James Clarkson at Dash was also suspended this year, and he also never coached college. Nor did Farid Benstiti who also stepped down from Reign. Richie Burke was fired by Spirit and he also never coached soccer. The only NWSL coach that I am aware of who has been suspended who had any real college experience is Cromwell, and no one knows what she allegedly did, let alone whether it has merit.
> 
> I am not trying to spin anything.  The only ones spinning anything are those claiming that college scholarships causes harassment in the NWSL despite overwhelming facts establish the contrary.


General FYI...

Division 1 athletic programs can offer full ride scholarships
Division 2 athletic programs can offer partial scholarships
Division 3 does not offer athletic scholarships 
All 3 of these can "bend the rules" + mix academic or "needs based" scholarships to make things happen if they really want a player. 

You keep saying that LIU which is D1 now + D2 in the past doesn't count because D2 doesn't give scholarships. Your statement is simply wrong, first D2 can offer partial scholarships, second D2 schools can mix other types of scholarships to achieve the same type of goal which is to lower the cost of attending college.

Either way it's guaranteed that Paul Riley while he was a college coach was familiar with how scholarships work + the leverage he has over players because of them.


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## Zeke (Oct 10, 2022)

We are having a discussion about whether 30% or 50% of NWSL coaches engaged in sexual harrassment.

That’s not a few bad apples.  That’s a bad culture.


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## crush (Oct 10, 2022)

SurFutbol said:


> I'm not sure what you are talking about.  Again, 2 of the 3 coaches who were investigated in the Yates report never coached college, and the third coached college 25 years ago in D2 or D3, and did not have scholarships.  James Clarkson at Dash was also suspended this year, and he also never coached college. Nor did Farid Benstiti who also stepped down from Reign. Richie Burke was fired by Spirit and he also never coached soccer. The only NWSL coach that I am aware of who has been suspended who had any real college experience is Cromwell, and no one knows what she allegedly did, let alone whether it has merit.
> 
> I am not trying to spin anything.  The only ones spinning anything are those claiming that college scholarships causes harassment in the NWSL despite overwhelming facts establish the contrary.


This is the no spin forum Surf Futbol. Welcome to the fabulous socal soccer forum btw. The Yates Report ((TYR)) was done because the very best *pro* female soccer players in our country had some things they needed to share about those who yelled and screamed at them over the years in the Pros ((including youth and I do believe 99% of them all went to college)) to break them down and then build them up and then they get all the credit for the development and even a small few went for more sexual things. It's simple. Yelling and screaming at any female in soccer needs to stop.


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## SurFutbol (Oct 10, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> 5 coaches suspended from NWSL not 2 or 3.
> 
> The yates report only covers to Oct 2021 and just part of the problems.
> 
> Did you miss all the other recent interviews, articles, testimonials or are you ignoring the facts and the bigger picture?


Who are you talking about? Holly - no college head coaching experience; Dames - no college head coaching experience; Riley - coached D3 with no scholarships 20+ years ago. Neither of the Thorns execs who were fired in the aftermath of the Yates report (Wilkinson and LaHue) or the owner who stepped aside (Paulson) had college coaching or exec experience. Of those who were fired under the shadow of harassment allegations before the Yates report, they also didn't seem to have college experience, including Gotham GM La Hue, former Spirit HC Burke and former Reign Coach Benstiti. Nothing supports @Carlsbad7's assertion that getting rid of college scholarships will get rid of harassment. If anything, the lack of former college coaches and administrators who have been involved in the NWSL scandal suggests that exact opposite.

It seems like the two of you are trying to reverse engineer a reason to support your pre-existing dislike of college scholarships.  You really think that paying players the minimum wage (roughly $8,000 a year) to play college soccer instead of giving out scholarships would mean the end of harassment in the NWSL?


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## lafalafa (Oct 10, 2022)

SurFutbol said:


> Who are you talking about? Holly - no college head coaching experience; Dames - no college head coaching experience; Riley - coached D3 with no scholarships 20+ years ago. Neither of the Thorns execs who were fired in the aftermath of the Yates report (Wilkinson and LaHue) or the owner who stepped aside (Paulson) had college coaching or exec experience. Of those who were fired under the shadow of harassment allegations before the Yates report, they also didn't seem to have college experience, including Gotham GM La Hue, former Spirit HC Burke and former Reign Coach Benstiti. Nothing supports @Carlsbad7's assertion that getting rid of college scholarships will get rid of harassment. If anything, the lack of former college coaches and administrators who have been involved in the NWSL scandal suggests that exact opposite.
> 
> It seems like the two of you are trying to reverse engineer a reason to support your pre-existing dislike of college scholarships.  You really think that paying players the minimum wage (roughly $8,000 a year) to play college soccer instead of giving out scholarships would mean the end of harassment in the NWSL?


Wow and today 2 more coaches banned and fired and yet you still don't get it

: Cromwell and Greene fired but long time college coaches


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579571703742869504


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## tjinaz (Oct 10, 2022)

SurFutbol said:


> Who are you talking about? Holly - no college head coaching experience; Dames - no college head coaching experience; Riley - coached D3 with no scholarships 20+ years ago. Neither of the Thorns execs who were fired in the aftermath of the Yates report (Wilkinson and LaHue) or the owner who stepped aside (Paulson) had college coaching or exec experience. Of those who were fired under the shadow of harassment allegations before the Yates report, they also didn't seem to have college experience, including Gotham GM La Hue, former Spirit HC Burke and former Reign Coach Benstiti. Nothing supports @Carlsbad7's assertion that getting rid of college scholarships will get rid of harassment. If anything, the lack of former college coaches and administrators who have been involved in the NWSL scandal suggests that exact opposite.
> 
> It seems like the two of you are trying to reverse engineer a reason to support your pre-existing dislike of college scholarships.  You really think that paying players the minimum wage (roughly $8,000 a year) to play college soccer instead of giving out scholarships would mean the end of harassment in the NWSL?


I am with you.  How does paying a college athlete solve this?  Whether its a scholarship, playing time, salary etc the coach will ALWAYS have leverage until the player is a superstar then they can get the coach fired.  If anything the NWSL issues illustrate money has nothing to do with this its a bad culture and bad coaches regardless if they had previous collegiate experience or not.  You can't even say its a male/female coaching issue as both genders have been fired for cause.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 10, 2022)

tjinaz said:


> I am with you.  How does paying a college athlete solve this?  Whether its a scholarship, playing time, salary etc the coach will ALWAYS have leverage until the player is a superstar then they can get the coach fired.  If anything the NWSL issues illustrate money has nothing to do with this its a bad culture and bad coaches regardless if they had previous collegiate experience or not.  You can't even say its a male/female coaching issue as both genders have been fired for cause.


Suppose all employers in a certain industry decided to pay their employees in coupons + the coupons were only redeemable at certain locations and they can expire whenever the employer chooses. Also all employees in this industry cant go anywhere else to be paid in real $$$ because all employers have banded together and agreed to only paying employees in coupons. 

Does this sound like an equitable trade for some type of skill or earned talent?


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## tjinaz (Oct 10, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Suppose all employers in a certain industry decided to pay their employees in coupons + the coupons were only redeemable at certain locations and they can expire whenever the employer chooses. Also all employees in this industry cant go anywhere else to be paid in real $$$ because all employers have banded together and agreed to only paying employees in coupons.
> 
> Does this sound like an equitable trade for some type of skill or earned talent?


I would say the best in that industry would go elsewhere where they can get paid what they want.  If the are that skilled and have marketable skills they can play the market. So you are saying a scholarship/college degree is a coupon?  WOW... you are so reaching.  If they are so skilled why do they need to go to college?  They can simply go pro.  Problem solved.  You are saying only the college benefits from the athlete playing for them?  The college player learns nothing about the sport and gains no development at all?  The coach and staff teach them nothing but only take from them is that right?  Not to mention the college degree providing a career and way to provide for themselves  if they do get injured on the field or are not one of those top 5% that go pro or can no longer play.  Oh and the other non athletes pay tens of thousands of dollars in "coupons" to get this benefit.   This is the craziest post in the entire thread.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 10, 2022)

Have fun you think you're right + obviously are never going to get it


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## SurFutbol (Oct 11, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Have fun you think you're right + obviously are never going to get it


They are never going to understand that college scholarships are the reason why eight NWSL coaches and administrators with no experience with college programs that even had scholarships harassed professional players?


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## SurFutbol (Oct 11, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Suppose all employers in a certain industry decided to pay their employees in coupons + the coupons were only redeemable at certain locations and they can expire whenever the employer chooses. Also all employees in this industry cant go anywhere else to be paid in real $$$ because all employers have banded together and agreed to only paying employees in coupons.
> 
> Does this sound like an equitable trade for some type of skill or earned talent?


You need to take a step back.  A college player has all the flexibility in the world, unlike an NWSL player.  They can transfer to any of 300 or more other colleges if they aren't happy where they are.  They also have all of the same opportunities of an NWSL player because they can just go pro at any time. Or they can just give up soccer and be student since that is the reason they should have been in college in the first place.  NWSL players, on the other hand, have almost no flexibility.  Most don't get to choose where they will even play because of the draft.  They sign to standardized contracts. They can be traded against their will at the whim of their employer.  If they're unhappy, they are stuck and have nowhere else to go unless they want to move out of the country.  If you think a cabal of NWSL franchises dictating the terms and conditions of employment is more "equitable" than a college player's options, so be it, but you're just wrong.

Your "coupon" analogy also makes no sense.  It doesn't matter whether a college athlete receives compensation in the form of a scholarship or the minimum wage.  Even if they were employees - which they are not - a university could then fire them and stop paying them at any time.  And even if a college athlete is paid in cash instead of getting a scholarship, now they need to pay full freight on their tuition, which was previously free or at a subsidized rate. 

What really makes your "coupon" theory idiotic, however, is that getting paid as an employee means having to pay income taxes plus involuntary withholdings on what was previously tax free, plus you will probably lose the ability to claim your kid as a dependent.


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## lafalafa (Oct 12, 2022)

Mentioned hot mic'ing coaches and sure enough some more leaks

Professional manager making millions going off on a verbal assault @ the players because they didn't finish top 4









						Muhsin ‍ on Instagram: "Mikel Arteta after Arsenal failed to finish in the Top 4.  #arsenal #premierleague"
					

Muhsin ‍ shared a post on Instagram: "Mikel Arteta after Arsenal failed to finish in the Top 4.  #arsenal #premierleague". Follow their account to see 1860 posts.




					www.instagram.com


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## SurFutbol (Oct 28, 2022)

Keeperkat said:


> Like members of the women’s swim team, women’s soccer players also had their complaints ignored by athletic department administrators.
> 
> “We started talking and the two [administrators] looked at us like we had five heads,” Sekany said. “They said they had never heard anything bad about Neil McGuire. When we used terms like ‘emotional abuse,’ they were condescending in a way, as if we didn’t understand the implications of using terminology like that — which we did. We discussed it at length and decided it was absolutely an appropriate term to describe what he’d been doing to us.”
> 
> ...


I suspect Cal lost the forest through the trees investigating whether Neil's behavior met a standard that rose to some objective level of "abuse" that required them to terminate him, rather than considering the more important question whether a guy who absolutely wears down the self-esteem and self-confidence of so many of his players should be coaching young women.  Maybe it isn't surprising given the AD previously served at two military academies where "suck it up and do what you are told" is often part of the culture.

McGuire is not a good "x's and o's" soccer coach, but he recruits many excellent athletes who typically overwhelm lesser teams playing boot ball. It is usually good enough to squeak into the tournament and then lose early to teams that have both athletes and decent coaching.  More importantly, he grinds many of his players down over time through his unique blend of passive aggression, lack of transparency and honesty, moodiness, failure to communicate, and occasional humiliation sometimes in front of the entire team.  If you look at statements by the more than 20 former players who spoke out against him to the press, there is a common theme.  A few of those comments include "I'm mentally tough and this was the first time I had been broken down", "I was so scared of this man", "It wasn't an issue of a yeller it was emotional and mental abuse because he treated some girls so poorly they started coming depressed and mentally not stable", "any love I had of soccer [McGuire] completely took away and I wasn't happy anymore", "It is the fear of Neil that sticks out in my head", "Since I graduated...I have made it a priority to repress these experiences", "He just ruined everything we thought we were as people", "I felt like everything I ever was as a person was stripped of me" etc.  These aren't just sour grapes by players who were bitter about playing time.  Some were regular starters including one of his two 1st team All-Americans.  His other 1st team all American (Alex Morgan) has also spoken out against him.  Multiple regular starters at the time and a couple club coaches also recommended steering clear of Cal to my daughter.


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## Keeperkat (Oct 28, 2022)

SurFutbol said:


> I suspect Cal lost the forest through the trees investigating whether Neil's behavior met a standard that rose to some objective level of "abuse" that required them to terminate him, rather than considering the more important question whether a guy who absolutely wears down the self-esteem and self-confidence of so many of his players should be coaching young women.  Maybe it isn't surprising given the AD previously served at two military academies where "suck it up and do what you are told" is often part of the culture.
> 
> McGuire is not a good "x's and o's" soccer coach, but he recruits many excellent athletes who typically overwhelm lesser teams playing boot ball. It is usually good enough to squeak into the tournament and then lose early to teams that have both athletes and decent coaching.  More importantly, he grinds many of his players down over time through his unique blend of passive aggression, lack of transparency and honesty, moodiness, failure to communicate, and occasional humiliation sometimes in front of the entire team.  If you look at statements by the more than 20 former players who spoke out against him to the press, there is a common theme.  A few of those comments include "I'm mentally tough and this was the first time I had been broken down", "I was so scared of this man", "It wasn't an issue of a yeller it was emotional and mental abuse because he treated some girls so poorly they started coming depressed and mentally not stable", "any love I had of soccer [McGuire] completely took away and I wasn't happy anymore", "It is the fear of Neil that sticks out in my head", "Since I graduated...I have made it a priority to repress these experiences", "He just ruined everything we thought we were as people", "I felt like everything I ever was as a person was stripped of me" etc.  These aren't just sour grapes by players who were bitter about playing time.  Some were regular starters including one of his two 1st team All-Americans.  His other 1st team all American (Alex Morgan) has also spoken out against him.  Multiple regular starters at the time and a couple club coaches also recommended steering clear of Cal to my daughter.


I wondered if Alex Morgan was going to speak out.  I didn't realize she did.  I too was struck by the common theme when the girls were interviewed.  I scratch my head wondering how it is that McGuire still has a job.


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## Soccerfan2 (Oct 29, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> Mentioned hot mic'ing coaches and sure enough some more leaks
> 
> Professional manager making millions going off on a verbal assault @ the players because they didn't finish top 4
> 
> ...


People find this perfectly acceptable. This is our culture. As the comments say “this is a good manager” “passionate”. 
I think ideas are starting to change, but it’s no wonder we see this behavior at all levels of youth and women’s soccer too. So many coaches aren’t educated about effective teaching methods and they themselves had coaches that modeled this behavior. If we want it to change not only do players (and parents) have to demand accountability, they also have to push organizations to train their coaches on how to educate and communicate with players.


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## crush (Oct 29, 2022)

Soccerfan2 said:


> People find this perfectly acceptable. This is our culture. As the comments say “this is a good manager” “passionate”.
> I think ideas are starting to change, but it’s no wonder we see this behavior at all levels of youth and women’s soccer too. So many coaches aren’t educated about effective teaching methods and they themselves had coaches that modeled this behavior*. If we want it to change not only do players (and parents) have to demand accountability*, they also have to push organizations to train their coaches on how to educate and communicate with players.


You can say that again. Parents, were waiting on you. If a parent does demand accountability from the Yellers & Screamers, your kid get's shown the exit, mocked, blacklisted and some of the Yellers in high positions can & will offer retaliation in return. Women and young girls do not like being yelled at by the men. The men need to take a class on how to talk to girls, period & end of the abuse. It's simple really but the men are not leading the way to change.


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