# FIFA needs to stop "gaslighting" goalkeepers



## Michael Varn (Aug 25, 2020)

FIFA needs to make a rule change. And if this rule changes, other governing bodies on every level of world football will follow suit.

This rule went into effect across the world after the World Cup final in 1990. Now if this rule changes, all goalkeepers can breath a sigh of relief!

For the last 30 years professional keepers as well as amateur and youth keepers have not been able to pick up the ball when it is played back to them. This has gone on long enough. Profesional goalkeepers over the years have looked like idiots giving up the most rediculous goals because of this. And it is probably worse on the amature and youth level. 

There is a reason for this. Goalkeepers spend the lion's share of their time on the practice pitch useing their hands, not their feet. Now the other ten players on a team spend much more time dealing with balls that are rolling in their direction with their feet. 

But when goalkeepers have to deal with this, they can look like 10 year olds when they miss the ball and end up on their backsides when they can only watch helplessly as the ball roles slowly into the net.

It's time to let goalkeepers be goalkeepers again!

Let them pick up the ball when it is right in front of them. That is what they are suppose to do. But FIFA will not let them do it.  Now granted, if the ball is played back like 5 times in a row, that is a delay of game, and a penalty is warranted. But my suggestion is to let them pick it up once, especially if there is pressure.

Now if you don't agree or if you'r not sure about what Iam saying, İ would like to draw your attention to another World Cup final. Croatia vs France. 2018. Pay close attention to how Croatia scored their second goal. Roll tape!

Now if this goal was consequential, you would not be hearing about this from me now for the first time. The rule would have been changed immediately after the match.

But, if this all got started after W.C. 1990, W.C. 2018 should end it!

Now, my playing days as a goalkeeper were over before 1990, but if I had to deal with this, I would probably have had to play a different sport!

Now, if you are aware of some soccer leagues that let the goalkeepers operate the old way, please share this with me.


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## Michael Varn (Aug 25, 2020)

Now as you can see by my other avatar on my profile page, I was an 'old school' goalkeeper, and we did things differently in the 1980's. And I look forward to future discussions about how the position has changed over the years and decades.

Stay tuned!!!


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## espola (Aug 26, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> FIFA needs to make a rule change. And if this rule changes, other governing bodies on every level of world football will follow suit.
> 
> This rule went into effect across the world after the World Cup final in 1990. Now if this rule changes, all goalkeepers can breath a sigh of relief!
> 
> ...


They attempted to fix a problem and created another and looked foolish in the process.

I have suggested for years a smile solution that could have been easily implemented back then - 0nce the keeper had released the ball from his hands, he can't touch it again with his hands until it has been touched by an opponent or a stoppage and restart of play has occurred.


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## Messi>CR7 (Aug 26, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> FIFA needs to make a rule change. And if this rule changes, other governing bodies on every level of world football will follow suit.
> 
> This rule went into effect across the world after the World Cup final in 1990. Now if this rule changes, all goalkeepers can breath a sigh of relief!
> 
> ...


Good discussion topic, but respectfully I have to disagree.

It's true that goalkeepers don't work on their feet as much as the field players, but they're also not being asked to do as much.  They don't need to dribble 20 yards and win 1v1.  Most of the howlers I have seen are due to miss-judgment of how much time the GK has to play the ball.

@toucan's last paragraph is right on.  What you are suggesting is to award the subpar GKs, and punish those GKs with good foot skill by taking way one of their advantages.


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 26, 2020)

The rule change 30 years ago was a benefit to the game.   PERIOD!


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## Michael Varn (Aug 26, 2020)

toucan said:


> Naaaah ... don't go backwards on this rule.  There was a reason to change the rule.  Teams used to pass the ball back to their own keeper so he could just so he could pick it up and send a long punt forward.  It added 20 punts to the game.  There was little incentive to build up, and possession-play nearly did not exist.  Defenders did not have to know how to handle the ball because they only had two jobs.  Clear it, or pass it to the keeper so he could punt it.
> 
> Yes, sometimes keepers give up stupid goals if they don't handle the ball well.  But the answer isn't to make the game easier for keepers; the answer is to teach keepers to handle the ball with their feet.


But there is still a question about time. Practice sessions are finite in terms of time. There is simply not enough time for keepers to be as proficeint dealing with the ball with their feet as the other players are. Keepers have to do other things with their time!


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## Michael Varn (Aug 26, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> FIFA needs to make a rule change. And if this rule changes, other governing bodies on every level of world football will follow suit.
> 
> This rule went into effect across the world after the World Cup final in 1990. Now if this rule changes, all goalkeepers can breath a sigh of relief!
> 
> ...


Yes, this revolution could start from the bottom up, not nessesarily from the top (FIFA) down.


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## JumboJack (Aug 26, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> But there is still a question about time. Practice sessions are finite in terms of time. There is simply not enough time for keepers to be as proficeint dealing with the ball with their feet as the other players are. Keepers have to do other things with their time!


The train your defenders to not get into a situation where their only option is to pass it to the keeper. 

This is a good law.


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## Dargle (Aug 26, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> But there is still a question about time. Practice sessions are finite in terms of time. There is simply not enough time for keepers to be as proficeint dealing with the ball with their feet as the other players are. Keepers have to do other things with their time!


The modern youth GK attends at least two team practices a week where they do the same foot skills drills with their teammates at least for half of each practice (before going into goal for the last half) and then attends at least 1-2 club GK sessions and 1 private GK session a week to work on technique, repetitions, and strategy.  They also are held to the same standard as their outfield players on things like juggling on their own etc.  So, while time is finite, the reality is that most kids playing goal these days accept that they just have to do more than their teammates.  Coaches often don't realize or appreciate that, but that's what happens.  The goalkeepers who don't do that don't advance very far.


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## dad4 (Aug 26, 2020)

.


Michael Varn said:


> But there is still a question about time. Practice sessions are finite in terms of time. There is simply not enough time for keepers to be as proficeint dealing with the ball with their feet as the other players are. Keepers have to do other things with their time!


Sure, time is limited.  But we don't outlaw long balls so that forwards have more time to focus on dribbling.  We just tell forwards that traps and dribbling are both part of the game.  If you want to play at a high level, learn both.


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 26, 2020)

dad4 said:


> .
> 
> Sure, time is limited.  But we don't outlaw long balls so that forwards have more time to focus on dribbling.  We just tell forwards that traps and dribbling are both part of the game.  If you want to play at a high level, learn both.


Forwards can’t delay the game by holding on to the ball.  There is a good reason the rule was changed and in 30 years no one has complained.


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## kickingandscreaming (Aug 26, 2020)

In addition to the reasons stated above, I don't like the idea of changing rules to make it easier on the defense in what is already a low scoring game.


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## Michael Varn (Aug 26, 2020)

toucan said:


> Naaaah ... don't go backwards on this rule.  There was a reason to change the rule.  Teams used to pass the ball back to their own keeper so he could just so he could pick it up and send a long punt forward.  It added 20 punts to the game.  There was little incentive to build up, and possession-play nearly did not exist.  Defenders did not have to know how to handle the ball because they only had two jobs.  Clear it, or pass it to the keeper so he could punt it.
> 
> Yes, sometimes keepers give up stupid goals if they don't handle the ball well.  But the answer isn't to make the game easier for keepers; the answer is to teach keepers to handle the ball with their feet.


Yes, we will simply have to agree to disagree. But it is not fair, pure and simple. Perhaps if something like this happens to your team, and if it's costly, you may be inclined to rethink your opinion on this. Because I will be honest with you, if I was the ref in the 2018 final, and that second goal was the difference (2-1 Croatia) and costly, I would  disallow the goal! I would prioritize FIFA''s mission statement about fair play. This brings up another issue about the refs. Do they actually have the discretion on any level of soccer to disallow goals in the interest of fairness even though the goal was legal?

Because if you are Hugo Lloris, you may agree with this. After that goal agianst him in the final, he had his head down for a reason. He did not want two thirds of the planet's population to see his face because it was EMBARACEING!!!


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## Michael Varn (Aug 26, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> Yes, we will simply have to agree to disagree. But it is not fair, pure and simple. Perhaps if something like this happens to your team, and if it's costly, you may be inclined to rethink your opinion on this. Because I will be honest with you, if I was the ref in the 2018 final, and that second goal was the difference (2-1 Croatia) and costly, I would  disallow the goal! I would prioritize FIFA''s mission statement about fair play. This brings up another issue about the refs. Do they actually have the discretion on any level of soccer to disallow goals in the interest of fairness even though the goal was legal?
> 
> Because if you are Hugo Lloris, you may agree with this. After that goal agianst him in the final, he had his head down for a reason. He did not want two thirds of the planet's population to see his face because it was EMBARACEING!!!


I will end my participation in this discussion with one last parting thought. If you go on youtube, you will see a montage of the worst goals ever given up by goalkeepers in the modern era. Alot of these goals are are given up this way.


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## socalkdg (Aug 26, 2020)

My kid is as good with her feet as she is with her hands.   Started as a striker her first 2 years, never stopped training with her feet.   Trains 2 days a week with her team, almost all footwork and passing.   Trains 3 days a week with her keeper trainer.   Just because you can't do something well doesn't mean you change the rules, you work harder at it.


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## outside! (Aug 26, 2020)

It would seem that allowing the goalkeeper to use their hands on a bad pass back would endanger the keeper since it would put their head closer to the feet of the attacking player. On a personnel level, I love it when a keeper demonstrates that they can actually play football.


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## espola (Aug 26, 2020)

I have noticed in this thread, just like in all previous similar threads, the adherents present many different reasons why the change was made.


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## dad4 (Aug 26, 2020)

espola said:


> I have noticed in this thread, just like in all previous similar threads, the adherents present many different reasons why the change was made.


Really?  They all seem to be variants on delay of game problems.


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## espola (Aug 26, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Really?  They all seem to be variants on delay of game problems.


That was my initial thought too.  The first time I heard about this was from a friend who was a soccer coach and referee.  He laughed about it, saying it demonstrated how far from the actual play on the field that the rulemakers were.  If you want to know more, look at how FIFA/IFAB had to rush out a revision (the "obvious trickery" that is so obvious they didn't even bother to describe it) after players found out how to defeat it.  My personal opinion - when FIFA/IFAB makes a rule change that takes hours to explain to referees, they screwed up.

What I found out back then was that FIFA was concerned that the best international teams had gotten so good at stalling with passback-punt-passback-punt that it was affecting the tv ratings and thus the value to advertisers, cheapening the value of the World Cup rihts, FIFA's bread and butter asset.


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## Michael Varn (Aug 27, 2020)

Dargle said:


> The modern youth GK attends at least two team practices a week where they do the same foot skills drills with their teammates at least for half of each practice (before going into goal for the last half) and then attends at least 1-2 club GK sessions and 1 private GK session a week to work on technique, repetitions, and strategy.  They also are held to the same standard as their outfield players on things like juggling on their own etc.  So, while time is finite, the reality is that most kids playing goal these days accept that they just have to do more than their teammates.  Coaches often don't realize or appreciate that, but that's what happens.  The goalkeepers who don't do that don't advance very far.


From my point of view, all of this extra stuff that you say youth goalkeepers are doing today to improve ball control skills with their feet is simply TMI, that is to much information.  This time would be much better spent training and perfecting goalkeeper specific skills.


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## outside! (Aug 27, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> From my point of view, all of this extra stuff that you say youth goalkeepers are doing today to improve ball control skills with their feet is simply TMI, that is to much information.  This time would be much better spent training and perfecting goalkeeper specific skills.


Foot skills ARE goalkeeper skills. A goal keeper should be able to play outside of the box.


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## Emma (Aug 27, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> FIFA needs to make a rule change. And if this rule changes, other governing bodies on every level of world football will follow suit.
> 
> This rule went into effect across the world after the World Cup final in 1990. Now if this rule changes, all goalkeepers can breath a sigh of relief!
> 
> ...


I think you should focus on fighting PKs, especially when done as tiebreakers ... those are pretty bad for GKs, they lose most of the time there too.

Yes, Goal keepers have to focus on their hands as well as their feet but don't need to be as proficient with their feet as midfielders and they don't need to be as good a striker as forwards.  Those defenders, midfielders and forwards, might astonish you, also do a lot of work outside of team practice to be good at their required individual skills. For one - stamina work is done outside of team practice and that requires a lot of time and effort.  Accurate striking work is mostly done outside of team practice.  

I love watching a goal keeper with a great feet.  We wouldn't have videos like this without great feet goalies.


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## notintheface (Aug 27, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> From my point of view, all of this extra stuff that you say youth goalkeepers are doing today to improve ball control skills with their feet is simply TMI, that is to much information.  This time would be much better spent training and perfecting goalkeeper specific skills.


Goalkeeper-specific skills these days are playing with your feet. To give you an idea-- the Post-Shot xG versus Shots on Target stats for the EPL, every single keeper is rated pretty much the same, even though we feel like there are keepers who are better shot-stoppers (de Gea, etc). What that stat says to me is that you could largely put someone who is only moderately good at stopping shots but is better playing with their feet, distribution, etc (Alisson, Ederson) and they will be more successful in today's game.

Which is what the top clubs are doing, right? You get GK kids with 1 day a week of GK-specific training, and then either 1 or 2 days a week of training with their team playing with their feet. The game has changed and the statistics clearly show that. It is far better for a GK to play as a fifth defender, allowing your outside backs to push up further in the attack, than it is for them to be able to stop 2 or 3 more goals per season.


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 27, 2020)

^ well said


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## espola (Aug 27, 2020)

Emma said:


> I think you should focus on fighting PKs, especially when done as tiebreakers ... those are pretty bad for GKs, they lose most of the time there too.
> 
> Yes, Goal keepers have to focus on their hands as well as their feet but don't need to be as proficient with their feet as midfielders and they don't need to be as good a striker as forwards.  Those defenders, midfielders and forwards, might astonish you, also do a lot of work outside of team practice to be good at their required individual skills. For one - stamina work is done outside of team practice and that requires a lot of time and effort.  Accurate striking work is mostly done outside of team practice.
> 
> I love watching a goal keeper with a great feet.  We wouldn't have videos like this without great feet goalies.


PKs are easy for a reason.  I agree on eliminating them as a tiebreaker.


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## outside! (Aug 27, 2020)

espola said:


> PKs are easy for a reason.  I agree on eliminating them as a tiebreaker.


While I agree that ending a game with PK's sucks, I honestly cannot think of anything significantly better. At some point the game needs to end. After OT, all of the players are burnt. More field play would just lead to injuries.

Regarding the original post, goal keeping is a very hard position, but so is every position on the field. At least goal keepers don't have to run seven miles per game and deal with that type of conditioning in addition to their other training.


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## notintheface (Aug 27, 2020)

outside! said:


> While I agree that ending a game with PK's sucks, I honestly cannot think of anything significantly better. At some point the game needs to end. After OT, all of the players are burnt. More field play would just lead to injuries.


For the youngers, it's easy-- the team with more points in their previous games in a tournament wins. Both teams know going into the match who wins if the teams draw, and that should naturally open up the game more, leading to a smaller likelihood of a draw. The chances of both teams coming into a final after three games having the same number of points is very rare. If both teams have gotten 10 points per game (or whatever it is, 6 for the win + 3 for goals + 1 clean sheet) and not given up any goals on the way to the final, then let both youngers teams be champions, they've earned it. Putting PK pressure on a 10 year old is pretty dodgy.


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## espola (Aug 27, 2020)

outside! said:


> While I agree that ending a game with PK's sucks, I honestly cannot think of anything significantly better. At some point the game needs to end. After OT, all of the players are burnt. More field play would just lead to injuries.
> 
> Regarding the original post, goal keeping is a very hard position, but so is every position on the field. At least goal keepers don't have to run seven miles per game and deal with that type of conditioning in addition to their other training.


Corner kick tries - 11 v 11 (or less for younger) in one half of a field.  The try ends when the ball leaves the half-field, a goal is scored, or a situation occurs that would be a free kick for the defending team in regular play.  Each team gets 3 tries and they get to pick which corner to kick from.  If still tied after 3 tries, continue 1 more at a time.


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## Emma (Aug 27, 2020)

notintheface said:


> For the youngers, it's easy-- the team with more points in their previous games in a tournament wins. Both teams know going into the match who wins if the teams draw, and that should naturally open up the game more, leading to a smaller likelihood of a draw. The chances of both teams coming into a final after three games having the same number of points is very rare. If both teams have gotten 10 points per game (or whatever it is, 6 for the win + 3 for goals + 1 clean sheet) and not given up any goals on the way to the final, then let both youngers teams be champions, they've earned it. Putting PK pressure on a 10 year old is pretty dodgy.


In theory this sounds good but you know what the strategy of the team with the most points will be in the championship game.  Bunker and go 0-0 bc winning is always more important than development in a championship game.  It's great for 10 year olds to learn how to deal with the pressure when it really doesn't matter, or at least it should not matter. 

A championship game should be a clean slate and the team that can play the best under the pressure should win it all.


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## notintheface (Aug 27, 2020)

Emma said:


> In theory this sounds good but you know what the strategy of the team with the most points will be in the championship game.  Bunker and go 0-0 bc winning is always more important than development in a championship game.


I completely agree that there are a ton of unscrupulous coaches out there who will tell the kids to just kick the ball out and sub on every throw-in, hell, we've all seen that down 1 goal late. I would hope that a tiebreaker-wins game would either expose those coaches for the absurdity or they would rise to the occasion and actually play.

Keep in mind it is really hard to successfully get a bunch of 10-year-olds to park the bus. The most successful youngers teams almost universally strive to keep the ball in the opponent's half, and dropping 6 out of your 9, for example, make that really really hard to do. Sooner or later a younger will naturally make a defensive mistake leading to shipping a goal.


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## dad4 (Aug 27, 2020)

notintheface said:


> I completely agree that there are a ton of unscrupulous coaches out there who will tell the kids to just kick the ball out and sub on every throw-in, hell, we've all seen that down 1 goal late. I would hope that a tiebreaker-wins game would either expose those coaches for the absurdity or they would rise to the occasion and actually play.
> 
> Keep in mind it is really hard to successfully get a bunch of 10-year-olds to park the bus. The most successful youngers teams almost universally strive to keep the ball in the opponent's half, and dropping 6 out of your 9, for example, make that really really hard to do. Sooner or later a younger will naturally make a defensive mistake leading to shipping a goal.


There is a difference between parking the bus and abusing the sub rules.  

I don’t mind parking the bus.  That is legitimate strategy.   

But I will absolutely extend the time for a coach-led delay of game.  There is nothing like adding 60 seconds for every substitution to get the leading team to actually play ball.


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## outside! (Aug 27, 2020)

espola said:


> Corner kick tries - 11 v 11 (or less for younger) in one half of a field.  The try ends when the ball leaves the half-field, a goal is scored, or a situation occurs that would be a free kick for the defending team in regular play.  Each team gets 3 tries and they get to pick which corner to kick from.  If still tied after 3 tries, continue 1 more at a time.


While not a bad idea, it is still more field play on very tired legs by players that may be close to being heat stressed or dehydrated and would never let anyone else no. The advantage of kicks from the mark is that the game ends quickly and there is no more running. It is just a game afterall. I think it would be helpful if there was some education of all players that the team that loses in PK's is because the field players didn't score enough during the game. Maybe the referee could include that in the talk before starting kicks from the mark.


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 27, 2020)

outside! said:


> While not a bad idea, it is still more field play on very tired legs by players that may be close to being heat stressed or dehydrated and would never let anyone else no. The advantage of kicks from the mark is that the game ends quickly and there is no more running. It is just a game afterall. I think it would be helpful if there was some education of all players that the team that loses in PK's is because the field players didn't score enough during the game. Maybe the referee could include that in the talk before starting kicks from the mark.


Not to mention potential for injury on Corner Kicks.


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## socalkdg (Aug 27, 2020)

outside! said:


> While I agree that ending a game with PK's sucks, I honestly cannot think of anything significantly better. At some point the game needs to end. After OT, all of the players are burnt. More field play would just lead to injuries.


Always thought they should be like hockey and have the OT periods be with less players on the field.   Hockey goes from 6 on the ice to 4.  So have soccer go from 11 to 8 players for each team.  Opens it up and much more likely to get a goal in OT instead of going to penalties.


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## Emma (Aug 27, 2020)

espola said:


> Corner kick tries - 11 v 11 (or less for younger) in one half of a field.  The try ends when the ball leaves the half-field, a goal is scored, or a situation occurs that would be a free kick for the defending team in regular play.  Each team gets 3 tries and they get to pick which corner to kick from.  If still tied after 3 tries, continue 1 more at a time.


While my children will like this bc they are the tall, big and strong ones, I think it's unfair to the shorter players/teams.  And yes, my children score a lot on corner kicks bc they have good heads on them.


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## outside! (Aug 27, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Always thought they should be like hockey and have the OT periods be with less players on the field.   Hockey goes from 6 on the ice to 4.  So have soccer go from 11 to 8 players for each team.  Opens it up and much more likely to get a goal in OT instead of going to penalties.


And make one of the ones that come off be the keeper! Kind of kidding but it would be interesting.


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## Michael Varn (Aug 27, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> My kid is as good with her feet as she is with her hands.   Started as a striker her first 2 years, never stopped training with her feet.   Trains 2 days a week with her team, almost all footwork and passing.   Trains 3 days a week with her keeper trainer.   Just because you can't do something well doesn't mean you change the rules, you work harder at it.





socalkdg said:


> My kid is as good with her feet as she is with her hands.   Started as a striker her first 2 years, never stopped training with her feet.   Trains 2 days a week with her team, almost all footwork and passing.   Trains 3 days a week with her keeper trainer.   Just because you can't do something well doesn't mean you change the rules, you work harder at it.


I agree, rules should not be changed in the context you described. BUT there was a rule change that did go into effect in in the Early 1990's, and it had a dramatic effect on how the goalkeeping position has been played ever since.

I mean no disrespect, but goalkeepers today have been bogged down by all of this multi tasking. This is more of a generational thing than a soccer thing. Goalkeepers should spend all of their time doing just one thing: perfecting goalkeeper spécific skills, so let the other players perfect their skills.


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## Michael Varn (Aug 27, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> FIFA needs to make a rule change. And if this rule changes, other governing bodies on every level of world football will follow suit.
> 
> This rule went into effect across the world after the World Cup final in 1990. Now if this rule changes, all goalkeepers can breath a sigh of relief!
> 
> ...


I would like to make one final point:

Every modern goalkeeper on any level, if they had a choice, would elect to pick up the ball especially if they have to play the ball quickly in order to prevent a goal from being scored on them. No goalkeeper wants to deal with balls with their feet, or God forbid dribbling it. This would be their préférence in the present, or in any future era in this beautifull game. We had this option in the past. Perhaps présent and future goalkeepers should have this option as well. Now wether or not they realize it, that is exactly what they want!


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## Eagle33 (Aug 28, 2020)

The problem goalkeepers is not good with their feet at youth level is not them, is those idiot coaches that specialize too early.


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## socalkdg (Aug 28, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> I mean no disrespect, but goalkeepers today have been bogged down by all of this multi tasking. This is more of a generational thing than a soccer thing. Goalkeepers should spend all of their time doing just one thing: perfecting goalkeeper spécific skills, so let the other players perfect their skills.


Keepers would still need to be great with their feet as they are still a passing options outside the 18 as well.


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## JumboJack (Aug 28, 2020)

In all my years on the internets I can’t remember a more one sided (like really just one person) argument.


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## dad4 (Aug 28, 2020)

JumboJack said:


> In all my years on the internets I can’t remember a more one sided (like really just one person) argument.


True, but arguing about goalkeepers is better than thinking about covid.

Maybe I should start a thread arguing for a 3 line rule to prevent kickball....


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## kickingandscreaming (Aug 28, 2020)

dad4 said:


> True, but arguing about goalkeepers is better than thinking about covid.
> 
> Maybe I should start a thread arguing for a 3 line rule to prevent kickball....


I'll see your 3 line rule and raise you using a futsal ball at younger ages to keep the ball on the ground with no throw-ins, goal kicks or corner kicks.


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## Eagle33 (Aug 28, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> I'll see your 3 line rule and raise you using a futsal ball at younger ages to keep the ball on the ground with no throw-ins, goal kicks or corner kicks.


I'll see you in Massachusetts...


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## SoccerFan6 (Aug 28, 2020)

There's a twitter feed call "When Playing it out of the back goes wrong" - @wpiootbgw.  Not all goalkeeper errors, but you'll get a good chuckle out of some of the mistakes pros make.


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## Messi>CR7 (Aug 28, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> I would like to make one final point:
> 
> Every modern goalkeeper on any level, if they had a choice, would elect to pick up the ball especially if they have to play the ball quickly in order to prevent a goal from being scored on them. No goalkeeper wants to deal with balls with their feet, or God forbid dribbling it. This would be their préférence in the present, or in any future era in this beautifull game. We had this option in the past. Perhaps présent and future goalkeepers should have this option as well. Now wether or not they realize it, that is exactly what they want!


Rules are often changed in sports to better the overall game.  But I don't recall rules ever get changed to compensate a particular player's shortcoming (especially a defensive player player).

I can't tell if you are actually serious about any of this.  Perhaps you are Karius' therapist or president of some GK players' union. 

My DD plays defender.  One of the plays that impresses her most when we watch pro soccer is on a dangerous ball in, the fullback calmly or even nonchalantly heads it back to the GK so he can pick it up with his hands.  She hasn't had the courage to try it in her own game though.


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## espola (Aug 28, 2020)

toucan said:


> How about the designated hitter rule, which compensates for pitchers (defensive specialists) being lousy hitters.


If we are going to keep the DH, we should bring back the temporary pinch runner rule.


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## watfly (Aug 28, 2020)

Personally, I'd rather have a keeper that can distribute effectively with their feet than one that can make spectacular diving saves.  IMO keepers train way too much on diving, which should be the last option in a keepers toolbox.  I'd rather have one that has the footwork to cutoff angles and square up on shots and not have to dive in most cases.  I like the mentality that your keeper is your first attacker.


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## JumboJack (Aug 28, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Rules are often changed in sports to better the overall game.  But I don't recall rules ever get changed to compensate a particular player's shortcoming (especially a defensive player player).
> 
> I can't tell if you are actually serious about any of this.  *Perhaps you are Karius' therapist* or president of some GK players' union.
> 
> My DD plays defender.  One of the plays that impresses her most when we watch pro soccer is on a dangerous ball in, the fullback calmly or even nonchalantly heads it back to the GK so he can pick it up with his hands.  She hasn't had the courage to try it in her own game though.


Ouch!


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## Michael Varn (Aug 29, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> I would like to make one final point:
> 
> Every modern goalkeeper on any level, if they had a choice, would elect to pick up the ball especially if they have to play the ball quickly in order to prevent a goal from being scored on them. No goalkeeper wants to deal with balls with their feet, or God forbid dribbling it. This would be their préférence in the
> 
> ...


k





watfly said:


> Personally, I'd rather have a keeper that can distribute effectively with their feet than one that can make spectacular diving saves.  IMO keepers train way too much on diving, which should be the last option in a keepers toolbox.  I'd rather have one that has the footwork to cutoff angles and square up on shots and not have to dive in most cases.  I like the mentality that your keeper is your first attacker.


Goalkeepers have to make spectacular diving saves if shots on goal are anywhere near either post.  Now, positioning is a very important part of the game, and it does minimize all the acrobatic stuff.

But the différence between modern keepers, and keepers from my era has alot to do with diving. I respectfully disagree with you. Goalkeepers today are NOT spending enough time in training, and on their own time perfecting this art. Keepers from my era emphasized catching these balls, not just batting them à way.

You see, at least in the United States back in the 1980's if you wanted to be a goalkeeper, there was this iconic or ideal image of what a goalkeeper is suppose to look like. A prototype if you will. It is the depiction of a goalkeeper, real or stick figure, makeing a diving save, useing both hands, and catching the soccer ball. The books about goalkeeping at the time described this as the "classic" save with the head   "in the window" technique.

This is what aspiring goalkeepers like myself wanted to immulate. And we spent alot of time at practice and countless hours on our own time working on this.

This skill is very important, because the goal is a whole lot wider than it is tall.


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## watfly (Aug 29, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> k
> Goalkeepers have to make spectacular diving saves if shots on goal are anywhere near either post.  Now, positioning is a very important part of the game, and it does minimize all the acrobatic stuff.
> 
> But the différence between modern keepers, and keepers from my era has alot to do with diving. I respectfully disagree with you. Goalkeepers today are NOT spending enough time in training, and on their own time perfecting this art. Keepers from my era emphasized catching these balls, not just batting them à way.
> ...


I can appreciate your sentimental take on things and I do find it interesting how training has evolved from catch to parry.  However, its been 30 years since the change was made which actually has increased the participation of keepers in the game of FOOTball instead of just being a backstop.  Their role is much more proactive than it was 30+ years ago which I personally prefer.


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## Dargle (Aug 29, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> k
> Goalkeepers have to make spectacular diving saves if shots on goal are anywhere near either post.  Now, positioning is a very important part of the game, and it does minimize all the acrobatic stuff.
> 
> But the différence between modern keepers, and keepers from my era has alot to do with diving. I respectfully disagree with you. Goalkeepers today are NOT spending enough time in training, and on their own time perfecting this art. Keepers from my era emphasized catching these balls, not just batting them à way.
> ...


I don’t think the parry rather than catch phenomenon is because GKs aren’t practicing enough.  It’s a deliberate tactical switch that occurred in the pros in Europe because of changes in the construction of the soccer ball (dimples on the ball, for instance) and the ability of players to strike it, which led to more unpredictable movement on the ball.

In the US, youth GKs are still taught to catch for the most part. Some are better at it naturally or because of more practice, and the improvement in the quality of gloves has helped.  There’s one big (and big time) GK coach in the area who is a stickler on catching at young ages and chances are someone who catches the ball well trained with him at some point.

The reason some kids parry more than catch is often a reflection of the win mentality of US youth soccer and the pressure placed on GKs by parents (of non-GKs) and teammates. GKs don’t want’ to get blamed for a bad mistake like letting a ball slip through their hands into the goal, so they learn to push the ball instead.  I’ve seen this even with kids with great hands in practice.


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## Michael Varn (Aug 31, 2020)

watfly said:


> I can appreciate your sentimental take on things and I do find it interesting how training has evolved from catch to parry.  However, its been 30 years since the change was made which actually has increased the participation of keepers in the game of FOOTball instead of just being a backstop.  Their role is much more proactive than it was 30+ years ago which I personally prefer.


Well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Goalkeepers today are being forced to multi-task way to much in récent decades. This is more of a generational issue than a sports issue.

Now with catching the soccer ball, it is not just spectacular, but it does provide a tactical advantage. If you simply deflect a ball when you are fully extended, you will be out of position when you hit the ground if the ball ends up in bounds anywhere near the goal. You will feel powerless as you watch an easy tap in trickle over that goal line.
So how do you catch the ball anyway? It's moving to fast! The velocity on these new technologically advanced match balls make this impossible right?

Here is how to do it. Remember, its not your coaches time or your teams time when you have to work on this. Games and practices.

It is your time.

It takes a very long time to get your body to move quickly and seamlessly into certain positions through efficient movements. 

This is something akin to "Wax on"! "Wax off"!  Or "Wax left!"  "Wax right!" These are repetitive  motions moveing from left to right, or from side to side. Catching these balls in the air and along the ground.

And you have to keep doing these things over, and over and over again, Day after day after day. From when the sun comes up until the sun goes down. And if you are motivated, you can keep doing these things, as the moon is rising!


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 2, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> FIFA needs to make a rule change. And if this rule changes, other governing bodies on every level of world football will follow suit.
> 
> This rule went into effect across the world after the World Cup final in 1990. Now if this rule changes, all goalkeepers can breath a sigh of relief!
> 
> ...


I completely disagree.  We don't need more stalling in the game... and I'm a former goalkeeper.  There's no reason why half a dozen incompetent keepers looking bad makes this a bad rule change.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 2, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> I will end my participation in this discussion with one last parting thought. If you go on youtube, you will see a montage of the worst goals ever given up by goalkeepers in the modern era. Alot of these goals are are given up this way.


David de Gea routinely gives up goals by letting a ball slip through his hands.  Maybe we should eliminate the 2 handed catch, too.


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## Michael Varn (Sep 2, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> I completely disagree.  We don't need more stalling in the game... and I'm a former goalkeeper.  There's no reason why half a dozen incompetent keepers looking bad makes this a bad rule change.


Because Hugo Lloris is not an incompetent goalkeeper. As a matter of fact, he lifted that Gold trophy for France in 2018. 

However, It was clear that he spent alot more time in his training useing his hands, not his feet. This was clearly demonstrated when Croatia scored their second goal. Now everybody has probably forgotten this goal because it happened late, and by that time the result of the match was not in doubt.

Even though that goal was not consequential, it was embaraceing for Hugo Lloris. A top flight goalkeeper demonstrating the ball control skills of a ten year old!

You see, when things like this happen in a game like the World Cup Final, the rules  change. 

That's right, I know that FIFA has been deliberateing about the back pass rule. And when they make an official announcement about this, the goalkeeper will be able to pick up the back pass inside the 6 yard box only. Perhaps in the interest of fair play, the keeper should have this option if the ball is that close to the goal.

However, this rule is nearly 30 years old, and time wasteing is still a priority for FIFA. So the current rule outside the 6 yard box will still apply. Of course if FIFA changes the rule all othet governing bodies, like UEFA will follow.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 3, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> Because Hugo Lloris is not an incompetent goalkeeper. As a matter of fact, he lifted that Gold trophy for France in 2018.
> 
> However, It was clear that he spent alot more time in his training useing his hands, not his feet. This was clearly demonstrated when Croatia scored their second goal. Now everybody has probably forgotten this goal because it happened late, and by that time the result of the match was not in doubt.
> 
> ...


Hugo Lloris makes mistakes just like Manuel Neuer makes mistakes.  I saw him make 2 shitty ones just a couple of weeks ago and he's widely considered the best in the world with his feet.  Keepers make mistakes.  The back pass rule was altered to prevent stalling and giving an unfair advantage to the defense.  It's more fun to watch and it needs to remain.  Now, if you want to make the change for 12-year olds, great.  We're talking about the highest level of play.  The opponents ability to high press is one of the best parts of this rule.  The 6 should not be some force field zone if we're discussing anyone older than that, Michael.


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## Grace T. (Sep 4, 2020)

dad4 said:


> True, but arguing about goalkeepers is better than thinking about covid.
> 
> Maybe I should start a thread arguing for a 3 line rule to prevent kickball....


Ony if on the attacking end, shots from outside the 3rd line can be considered 3 pointers.  Come from behind victories, wild shots, high flying goalkeepers, higher scores.  Might even fix the American TV problem.  Picture it: "Ronaldo for 3!!!."

Nah.


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## watfly (Sep 4, 2020)

Not any real relevance, but just a story.  The boys played in Sweden's Gothia Cup a few years ago.  In their age group it was 7v7 with the keeper allowed to handle the ball with their hands on passbacks.  It was counter-intuitive for our kids and took them awhile to adjust.  Completely changes the game.  They never completely adjusted to the overtly physical play of the Europeans (almost to the level of no blood, no foul).  Parents would lose their minds if that kind of play was allowed in SoCal...I almost did.

Anyway, if you ever have the chance to do the Gothia Cup, do it.  It makes Surf Cup look like a backyard scrimmage.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 4, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Ony if on the attacking end, shots from outside the 3rd line can be considered 3 pointers.  Come from behind victories, wild shots, high flying goalkeepers, higher scores.  Might even fix the American TV problem.  Picture it: "Ronaldo for 3!!!."
> 
> Nah.


I rather like the kickball as an element of strategy.  We know kickball will eventually lose a game at higher levels but who didn't love Lloyd's 50 yard bomb over a flailing keeper's head?  Or Ibra's bomb in his debut at Galaxy?  

If you want to give "Ronaldo from 3"... I'm game... if flops can result in a 1 point deduction.


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## outside! (Sep 4, 2020)

watfly said:


> Not any real relevance, but just a story.  The boys played in Sweden's Gothia Cup a few years ago.  In their age group it was 7v7 with the keeper allowed to handle the ball with their hands on passbacks.  It was counter-intuitive for our kids and took them awhile to adjust.  Completely changes the game.  They never completely adjusted to the overtly physical play of the Europeans (almost to the level of no blood, no foul).  Parents would lose their minds if that kind of play was allowed in SoCal...I almost did.
> 
> Anyway, if you ever have the chance to do the Gothia Cup, do it.  It makes Surf Cup look like a backyard scrimmage.


Every time I have watched a youth match between US and a European team, the commentators always talk about how physical the Americans are.


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## espola (Sep 4, 2020)

watfly said:


> Not any real relevance, but just a story.  The boys played in Sweden's Gothia Cup a few years ago.  In their age group it was 7v7 with the keeper allowed to handle the ball with their hands on passbacks.  It was counter-intuitive for our kids and took them awhile to adjust.  Completely changes the game.  They never completely adjusted to the overtly physical play of the Europeans (almost to the level of no blood, no foul).  Parents would lose their minds if that kind of play was allowed in SoCal...I almost did.
> 
> Anyway, if you ever have the chance to do the Gothia Cup, do it.  It makes Surf Cup look like a backyard scrimmage.


I went along with my son when he playing up as a guest on a Boys 18 team in Gothia Cup 2007.  It was our team that got the two physical play red cards in the games we played.  We played 5 games -- a win in an off-schedule friendly against a local club's youth team, no losses to win our group Mon-Wed, then a Thursday 8 AM 0-0 elimination game followed by a 0-3 kick shootout (our guys hit both posts and the crossbar, the other guys put 3 in the net).  That gave us Friday and Saturday to play tourist.

At the Tuesday night Leader's Party (parents and coaches) we shared a table with some Norwegians who complained about how strict the Swedish referees were.  And, contrary to scurrilous rumors that were circulated after we returned, I was not dancing on the table when I fell to the floor - I was arranging empty beer cans into an artistic installation.

I usually hate traveling, but that trip was glorious from beginning to end.


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## Michael Varn (Sep 5, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Hugo Lloris makes mistakes just like Manuel Neuer makes mistakes.  I saw him make 2 shitty ones just a couple of weeks ago and he's widely considered the best in the world with his feet.  Keepers make mistakes.  The back pass rule was altered to prevent stalling and giving an unfair advantage to the defense.  It's more fun to watch and it needs to remain.  Now, if you want to make the change for 12-year olds, great.  We're talking about the highest level of play.  The opponents ability to high press is one of the best parts of this rule.  The 6 should not be some force field zone if we're discussing anyone older than that, Michael.


Well, the best way not to make the same mistake again, or over and over again, is to eliminate any pre existing condition or potential circumstance that will make a mistake possible in the first place.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 5, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> Well, the best way not to make the same mistake again, or over and over again, is to eliminate any pre existing condition or potential circumstance that will make a mistake possible in the first place.


Yah, cause god forbid we adapt.....really?  Advocating to slow the game?


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 5, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> Well, the best way not to make the same mistake again, or over and over again, is to eliminate any pre existing condition or potential circumstance that will make a mistake possible in the first place.


Why would you do that?  Every field player is constantly on the hook for making a mistake.


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## pewpew (Sep 6, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Why would you do that?  Every field player is constantly on the hook for making a mistake.


Field players don't get nearly as much scrutiny though for their mistakes. Take your strikers for example. Let's say your team plays 4-4-2 and the two playing up top play the entire game up there. Not once do they find the back of the net between the 9 shots on goal they took between the two of them. Yet the GK can have a great game but lets one slip thru after a defender got beat again for the umpteenth time with 2mins left in the game. It's a long walk back to the parking lot and you can feel the eyes of the players/parents on you and your kid. Luckily my G03 is mentally/physically tough. Nobody remembers all those missed shots on goal but they do remember the one goal your kid gave up and ended their weekend. 
I'm sure you @The Outlaw can attest to this. 
Years ago we played on a team where we were friends with a few defenders and strikers parents. Defenders/GK parents are usually a tight bunch. But the striker parents..two dads in particular were always very vocal when saying their daughters needed to finish in order to win. These two dads also had a higher soccer IQ when talking with them compared to your average parent screaming "send it" or calling "offsideS" at any given chance.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 8, 2020)

pewpew said:


> Field players don't get nearly as much scrutiny though for their mistakes. Take your strikers for example. Let's say your team plays 4-4-2 and the two playing up top play the entire game up there. Not once do they find the back of the net between the 9 shots on goal they took between the two of them. Yet the GK can have a great game but lets one slip thru after a defender got beat again for the umpteenth time with 2mins left in the game. It's a long walk back to the parking lot and you can feel the eyes of the players/parents on you and your kid. Luckily my G03 is mentally/physically tough. Nobody remembers all those missed shots on goal but they do remember the one goal your kid gave up and ended their weekend.
> I'm sure you @The Outlaw can attest to this.
> Years ago we played on a team where we were friends with a few defenders and strikers parents. Defenders/GK parents are usually a tight bunch. But the striker parents..two dads in particular were always very vocal when saying their daughters needed to finish in order to win. These two dads also had a higher soccer IQ when talking with them compared to your average parent screaming "send it" or calling "offsideS" at any given chance.


That's true... a striker can get 1 of 7 chances and be the hero.  And if your daughter wins 1-0, nobody remembers the shutout.  Fathers that douche(y) won't be changed no matter what you do.  The solution, though, is to hand them a spoon with their own medicine.  I've actually walked over to the keeper's parent, grabbed a spare jersey and handed the long sleeves to another parent when I overheard them badmouthing our keeper.  As you know, it takes a tough kid, or a psychotic kid, to not only do the job but want the job.  And thank God we're out there.  I loved the pressure, and I'll bet your kid does, too, especially when she knows nobody else can do the job better than she can.  World class keepers make stupid mistakes.  I'll bet 98% of your team is grateful to have her.  You just need to find a way to publicly embarrass Dad 1 and Dad 2 like I did... but I'm psycho that way.


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## Grace T. (Sep 8, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> That's true... a striker can get 1 of 7 chances and be the hero.  And if your daughter wins 1-0, nobody remembers the shutout.  Fathers that douche(y) won't be changed no matter what you do.  The solution, though, is to hand them a spoon with their own medicine.  I've actually walked over to the keeper's parent, grabbed a spare jersey and handed the long sleeves to another parent when I overheard them badmouthing our keeper.  As you know, it takes a tough kid, or a psychotic kid, to not only do the job but want the job.  And thank God we're out there.  I loved the pressure, and I'll bet your kid does, too, especially when she knows nobody else can do the job better than she can.  World class keepers make stupid mistakes.  I'll bet 98% of your team is grateful to have her.  You just need to find a way to publicly embarrass Dad 1 and Dad 2 like I did... but I'm psycho that way.


My kid had bad experiences 2 years in a row when he started club. Very different than extras where the goalkeepers were at that age just expected to be like foozball players in front of goal.   The first team has been through 3 keepers in 3 years. The second team went on to win state cup after he left but less than 1/2 the original team is still there (the rest were upgraded).  I wanted him to quit both times but he insisted he’s sticking with it and he’s gotten to the point where he’s even impressed some academy gk coaches. Psychotic is right.

The girls at least have the benefit that no one wants to play their position so sometimes the coaches have no choice. The boys though are constantly compared to each other...the upside is it’s a forge of fire that’s constantly causing them to improve every aspect of their game.


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## outside! (Sep 8, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The girls at least have the benefit that no one wants to play their position so sometimes the coaches have no choice.


That wasn't true for any team DD played for after U10. After U12, her teams usually carried three GK's who battled for playing time. All of them were good.


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## Grace T. (Sep 8, 2020)

outside! said:


> That wasn't true for any team DD played for after U10. After U12, her teams usually carried three GK's who battled for playing time. All of them were good.


DA?  ENCL?  Not familiar with that world so thanks for info.  Good to know. At the lower levels (even flight 1) though the soccer announcement boards are filled with ads for girl keepers.   The boys even in flight 3 have competition.  I see less of a disparity in boys v girls in keeper quality at goalkeeper camps in SoCal. In Utah it was very stark and very obvious.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 8, 2020)

outside! said:


> That wasn't true for any team DD played for after U10. After U12, her teams usually carried three GK's who battled for playing time. All of them were good.


Wow... don't know where you're at but most teams I'm familiar with struggle to carry 2 competent keepers on the girl's side.


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## outside! (Sep 8, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> DA?  ENCL?  Not familiar with that world so thanks for info.  Good to know. At the lower levels (even flight 1) though the soccer announcement boards are filled with ads for girl keepers.   The boys even in flight 3 have competition.  I see less of a disparity in boys v girls in keeper quality at goalkeeper camps in SoCal. In Utah it was very stark and very obvious.


National League and the first year of DA. College seems to be very tough on goalkeepers.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 8, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Wow... don't know where you're at but most teams I'm familiar with struggle to carry 2 competent keepers on the girl's side.


SW ECNL teams almost all carry two goalies...... only exceptions may be at the very youngest ages (U13 and U14) or if a club/team has issues


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## Michael Varn (Sep 11, 2020)

toucan said:


> It is a problem for coaches who train keepers to be keepers.  Coaches who train keepers to be soccer players get the best of both worlds.


Yes, the head coach cannot spend all of their time with their goalkeepers, but guess what, teams tend to have goalkeeper specific coaches who are listed as assistant coaches.


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## pewpew (Sep 11, 2020)

All of the good GKs out there have a loose screw or two. They have to. If it was easy back there everybody would do it. 
And you can tell by the way they play. FEARLESS!!
There are plenty of good keepers out there. You can tell just by watching them that they are squared away. But the ones that are squared away and not the least bit afraid to put a striker in their place...or anyone else for that matter...you can tell if you watch them long enough.
I really hate it when you meet some parents for the first time and they tell you their kid plays GK sometimes too. Yeah right. Then why are we here?


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## Michael Varn (Sep 11, 2020)

pewpew said:


> All of the good GKs out there have a loose screw or two. They have to. If it was easy back there everybody would do it.
> And you can tell by the way they play. FEARLESS!!
> There are plenty of good keepers out there. You can tell just by watching them that they are squared away. But the ones that are squared away and not the least bit afraid to put a striker in their place...or anyone else for that matter...you can tell if you watch them long enough.
> I really hate it when you meet some parents for the first time and they tell you their kid plays GK sometimes too. Yeah right. Then why are we here?


Yes, you have identified a stereotype at least for goalkeepers from my era. It pertains directly to their state of mind.

"You have to be crazy to be a goalkeeper!"

This is what I mean by gaslighting. Since the back pass rule has been in effect, this state of mind has only gotten worse.


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## Grace T. (Sep 12, 2020)

toucan said:


> Gee Michael, why stop with keepers who risk looking bad?  We should go back to the old rules to protect all defenders who risk looking bad.
> 
> The 1863 Cambridge rules allowed *all* players to use their hands to bat down a ball and even to catch it in the air.  If a defender was at risk of humiliation because he could not dispossess a dribbler, well, no problem!  He could legally run over a dribbler if that's what it took.
> 
> ...


In fairness to the OP, on the boys end, there are a lot of keepers like this.  Can't tell you how many times at 8, 9, 10 years old I see big hulking kids who can't run being put in goal because they can't play the field.  The expectation at that age from a goalkeeper really should just be to stop balls that are hit directly to them, and those boys are big enough that they can do it and cover a large part of the goal. The problem is when they hit 11-13 they are expected to start diving....they have to in order to be effective as they move into the larger goal,and as strikers begin to learn to not shoot it directly at the keeper which also happens about this age.  Some can still hang in there because they are beasts on defending the corner or scare the smaller strikers on 1 v 1 but without losing the weight they can't begin to develop the dive.  And since they haven't' played on field they can't use their feet so eventually they are no longer of value to the team.  They either give up (sometimes replaced by a superathletic kid or baseball player the coach has ID) or are replaced by the boys who have been training the position.


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## Goalie1310 (Sep 12, 2020)

Michael Varn said:


> I would like to make one final point:
> 
> Every modern goalkeeper on any level, if they had a choice, would elect to pick up the ball especially if they have to play the ball quickly in order to prevent a goal from being scored on them. No goalkeeper wants to deal with balls with their feet, or God forbid dribbling it. This would be their préférence in the present, or in any future era in this beautifull game. We had this option in the past. Perhaps présent and future goalkeepers should have this option as well. Now wether or not they realize it, that is exactly what they want!


I respectfully disagree, I have two keepers G06, B07  who have been playing since 2010/2011 as keepers and field players. I highly recommend when soccer starts up again you check out some games from G06 ,07 , 08 B07,08,09 the training style and playing style in my opinion is very noticeable at these ages. You will see at the competitive levels the keepers are pretty good with their feet. Gk training are now well rounded which includes foot work and distribution , My keepers prefer a team that builds and pass in tight spots because they are more involved in the game. It’s amazing to go watch some u little move the ball around in the back, they will do it more than let’s say u 16-u17 team. In my humble opinion for parents with young keepers that want to play on the field let them demand it half and half .I say this because this will help them be a better keeper in the future ...oh ya and add Futsal have fun! @soccerkeeper1310


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## Grace T. (Sep 12, 2020)

Goalie1310 said:


> I, My keepers prefer a team that builds and pass in tight spots because they are more involved in the game.


The problem with this is that, particularly at the youngest ages, most teams do not build from the back.  That's true of the highest level teams all the way down to the AYSO teams.  (I'm open to the argument that it's less true of the girls than the boys for the simple reason that perhaps a team doesn't have a big legged girl defender that can boot the ball down the field).  The reason why is because it takes the defenders quite a while to learn both tactically and technically when to hold onto the ball and dribble v. when to pass it back v. when to pass it forward.  So, if a goalkeeper passes it short to a defender, the defender will lose it on their side of the field leading to GSCO.  The coaches are judged purely on their wins and losses, so more often than not at that age they will have to resort to booting the ball to get it over the half way line.

I agree at these ages they should split time on the field and time in  goal.  The problem with that, though, is that it works only if the 2 keepers are equivalent in skill and dedication or if one is just going to be the lead and the other is content to know their place as a sub.


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## Goalie1310 (Sep 14, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The problem with this is that, particularly at the youngest ages, most teams do not build from the back.  That's true of the highest level teams all the way down to the AYSO teams.  (I'm open to the argument that it's less true of the girls than the boys for the simple reason that perhaps a team doesn't have a big legged girl defender that can boot the ball down the field).  The reason why is because it takes the defenders quite a while to learn both tactically and technically when to hold onto the ball and dribble v. when to pass it back v. when to pass it forward.  So, if a goalkeeper passes it short to a defender, the defender will lose it on their side of the field leading to GSCO.  The coaches are judged purely on their wins and losses, so more often than not at that age they will have to resort to booting the ball to get it over the half way line.
> 
> I agree at these ages they should split time on the field and time in  goal.  The problem with that, though, is that it works only if the 2 keepers are equivalent in skill and dedication or if one is just going to be the lead and the other is content to know their place as a sub.


I do agree that not every team plays out of the back but in my opinion it has gotten better with the younger teams I would say G06,07,08,09....and B07,08,09,10....from what I’ve seen these kids are learning and training out of the back , punting and just booting by the defenders is frowned upon again the age group really matters it could be GDA 05 and I saw plenty of long ball GDA 06 totally different style I’ve also seen the same in ECNL , DPL , flight 1 . I know we saw a different type of training in their soccer career since they started in the beginning very few teams passed back to the gk especially on the girl side. What was important for us was not the win but the style of play or in other words what was going to help them later. Now parents you need to ask yourself are you just wanting medals or the Title (Ecnl,GA,DA,ECRL,DPL,NPL) or whatever haha too many leagues that’s a whole other topic. Find yourself a coach that cares about how you play over just winning for GK this is very important if you want to play at the top levels whatever that is for you. As a family you decide what works for you a team with two or multiple gk or just you. This is for young u little to about u13-u14 my daughter played on the field and in goal about 50/50 most of her years but again everyone is different my son only played on the field for a few years and then decided he didn’t want to be a soccer player he only wanted to be a Goalkeeper haha his words. Most importantly have fun ! @soccerkeeper1310


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