# Legends, Surf, Arsenal...your thoughts!



## SoccerCraze12 (Dec 12, 2017)

So I wanted to pick everyone's brain on this. Big name clubs...who's had experience with them? The good, the bad, and the ugly? Do any of these clubs really have your kids best interest in mind, or is it just a cash cow?


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## Evan Cook (Dec 12, 2017)

I have experience with Satellites of  two of the three, Legends South and Murrieta Surf, plus two other small local clubs.  Legends South has by far been our best experience.  I feel like the director cares about the girls and for the most part does a good job of balancing the business side vs player development.


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## MWN (Dec 12, 2017)

The problem with your question is there are different structures so without identifying the particular group/region you are going to get different answers.  Surf is a franchise of sort with the Surf name being licensed to multiple independent clubs.  Thus, Surf SD is an entirely different organization than Surf IE or Surf Murrieta ... different philosophies, etc.  Arsenal and Legends try to have a more cohesive philosophy that doesn't always work out if the local DOCs/Coaches ignore corporate's program.  My experience with Arsenal is that its a good overall program, but coaches vary ... some good, some great and some probably should not be coaching.  Same with Legends.  Legends has some great coaching and some not-so-great.

Arsenal has a fully-funded boys DA program, and encourages their regional DOCs to identify and move kids to the DA.  Arsenal does not have a girls DA at this time (pursuing it), but has ECNL.  Arsenal has also made moves to put their Academy II teams in the NPL.  My son plays for Arsenal and there is lots of opportunities for top level boys.

Legends has a girls DA (not sure if fully-funded) and a boys U12.  If you have a girl, Legends is good.  Not-so-much for boys side.  In fact, there is no Legends South boys teams.  The big knock on Legends is you are forced to support/play in all Legends' affiliated Silverlakes tournaments because the Silverlakes' soccer manager is also the Legends DOC (Josh).  

Surf ... need to know the region.


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## BJ18 (Dec 12, 2017)

MWN said:


> The problem with your question is there are different structures so without identifying the particular group/region you are going to get different answers.  Surf is a franchise of sort with the Surf name being licensed to multiple independent clubs.  Thus, Surf SD is an entirely different organization than Surf IE or Surf Murrieta ... different philosophies, etc.  Arsenal and Legends try to have a more cohesive philosophy that doesn't always work out if the local DOCs/Coaches ignore corporate's program.  My experience with Arsenal is that its a good overall program, but coaches vary ... some good, some great and some probably should not be coaching.  Same with Legends.  Legends has some great coaching and some not-so-great.
> 
> Arsenal has a fully-funded boys DA program, and encourages their regional DOCs to identify and move kids to the DA.  Arsenal does not have a girls DA at this time (pursuing it), but has ECNL.  Arsenal has also made moves to put their Academy II teams in the NPL.  My son plays for Arsenal and there is lots of opportunities for top level boys.
> 
> ...


Are you sure Arsenal is fully funded on the boys side??


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## MWN (Dec 12, 2017)

BJ18 said:


> Are you sure Arsenal is fully funded on the boys side??


Yes, its been that way for a number of years (see, http://www.arsenalfc.us/ussda-u14-tryouts/ and http://www.arsenalfc.us/1997-arsenal-us-soccer-development-academy/).  For the U14 and up, almost all non-MLS clubs in SoCal offer fully-funded programs.


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## mirage (Dec 12, 2017)

MWN said:


> Yes, its been that way for a number of years (see, http://www.arsenalfc.us/ussda-u14-tryouts/ and http://www.arsenalfc.us/1997-arsenal-us-soccer-development-academy/).  For the U14 and up, almost all non-MLS clubs in SoCal offer fully-funded programs.


Not arguing.  I know three families that played for Arsenal DA and they all paid. Not close to "fully funded".  They were U16 at the time.  All three have left Arsenal and two are now playing in college.  The other is playing for another club.

My kid played for a two different non-MLS DA clubs and we paid at both.

While clubs offer fully funded slots, it also has to do with family income situation.  I would not characterize it and say that they are fully funded.  Only on hardship or special basis.


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## mirage (Dec 12, 2017)

SoccerCraze12 said:


> So I wanted to pick everyone's brain on this. Big name clubs...who's had experience with them? The good, the bad, and the ugly? Do any of these clubs really have your kids best interest in mind, or is it just a cash cow?


Assume you're interested in girls side?  Legends is not exactly know for boys side.

They do differ quite a bit between the boys and girls clubs so unless you post that you're interested in boys side, I have no comment.  I only have boys playing.


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## SoccerCraze12 (Dec 12, 2017)

mirage said:


> Assume you're interested in girls side?  Legends is not exactly know for boys side.
> 
> They do differ quite a bit between the boys and girls clubs so unless you post that you're interested in boys side, I have no comment.  I only have boys playing.


Yes, I have 2 girls, 15 and 9.


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## BJ18 (Dec 12, 2017)

mirage said:


> Not arguing.  I know three families that played for Arsenal DA and they all paid. Not close to "fully funded".  They were U16 at the time.  All three have left Arsenal and two are now playing in college.  The other is playing for another club.
> 
> My kid played for a two different non-MLS DA clubs and we paid at both.
> 
> While clubs offer fully funded slots, it also has to do with family income situation.  I would not characterize it and say that they are fully funded.  Only on hardship or special basis.


This is why I asked.  I know families at Arsenal that also pay.


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## soccermama213 (Dec 13, 2017)

My 16 yo dd has played for both Arsenal and Legends. I have had good experience with both but that's because she played for top coaches in both clubs. I agree with an above comment that it depends on coaches. All clubs have good and bad. son plays for Arsenal. Id say do your homework. Also would you be playing with the South teams (Temecula area) or North area (Chino/Ontario)? that plays a factor. As for Surf. San Diego Surf is the real Surf club. Murrieta Surf and IE Surf are just affiliate clubs by name only.


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## MWN (Dec 13, 2017)

SoccerCraze12 said:


> Yes, I have 2 girls, 15 and 9.


What is the general area?  Temecula Valley, Corona, or other?


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## INFAMEE (Dec 13, 2017)

Don't listen to MWN, he' with a club he's completely clueless about.

Arsenal USSDA 03 is pay to play and sure the other ones are too. Actually this club is perhaps the most expensive in its region for recreational soccer.

Big name clubs are just that, Big names.


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## Multi Sport (Dec 13, 2017)

SoccerCraze12 said:


> So I wanted to pick everyone's brain on this. Big name clubs...who's had experience with them? The good, the bad, and the ugly? Do any of these clubs really have your kids best interest in mind, or is it just a cash cow?


DD played for FC Murrieta (Murrieta Surf) Arsenal North, Legends North and South. 

Best advice I can share with you is that it's not about the Club. Pick the Coach that best fits your kid regardless of Club.


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## jdiaz (Dec 13, 2017)

BJ18 said:


> Are you sure Arsenal is fully funded on the boys side??


Not fully funded


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## jdiaz (Dec 13, 2017)

INFAMEE said:


> Don't listen to MWN, he' with a club he's completely clueless about.
> 
> Arsenal USSDA 03 is pay to play and sure the other ones are too. Actually this club is perhaps the most expensive in its region for recreational soccer.
> 
> Big name clubs are just that, Big names.


Ok simon


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## INFAMEE (Dec 13, 2017)

jdiaz said:


> Ok simon


Are you upset that it's pay-to-play, or fact that you're paying someone to baby sit your kid for recreational soccer?


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## jdiaz (Dec 13, 2017)

INFAMEE said:


> Are you upset that it's pay-to-play, or fact that you're paying someone to baby sit your kid for recreational soccer?


Poor troll.


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## INFAMEE (Dec 13, 2017)

jdiaz said:


> Poor troll.


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## mirage (Dec 14, 2017)

mirage said:


> Assume you're interested in girls side?  Legends is not exactly know for boys side.
> 
> They do differ quite a bit between the boys and girls clubs so unless you post that you're interested in boys side, I have no comment.  I only have boys playing.


I know I'd said no comment about the girls side but after reading the responses, not sure you got your question answered. 

I believe you're asking from the perspective of exposure of big clubs to college coaches versus small clubs - not about how good or bad coaches or teams are, given the age of your girls.

The reason I'd said boys and girls side differ significantly is because from college exposure perspective, they do.  An example is Slammers (the original Newport Beach club).  Great reputation and network with college coaches on the girls side but next to nothing on the boys side, whereas Pateadores (pre girls DA) were just the opposite. 

In general, bigger clubs with a track record of winning national titles are well known in the college coaches circle, especially in SoCal because they know the talent pool.  

Last, there's no guarantee that you'll get a better exposure within a big name, well know club.  There you have to figure out the pecking order for the teams, if you're not on their DA/ECNL team (since there's only one team per age group).  All other teams have pecking order within the same tier and 2nd team typically gets very little attention for exposure, from club.  The individual coach may help a lot so thing to take into account when trying out for a new team. How well connected is the coach with college coaches.

What we found in the process is that every college coach asked what club our kid played for and for whom (coach).  Their reaction was different if the coach knew the club coach versus not.  The latter was not a negative - it just wasn't a positive.


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## SoccerCraze12 (Dec 15, 2017)

mirage said:


> I know I'd said no comment about the girls side but after reading the responses, not sure you got your question answered.
> 
> I believe you're asking from the perspective of exposure of big clubs to college coaches versus small clubs - not about how good or bad coaches or teams are, given the age of your girls.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that. Yes, I'm looking at exposure based on the big club names. Slammers had a great reputation, but a bit far for us. We are in San Gabriel Valley area.


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## MWN (Dec 15, 2017)

SoccerCraze12 said:


> Thank you for that. Yes, I'm looking at exposure based on the big club names. Slammers had a great reputation, but a bit far for us. We are in San Gabriel Valley area.


As you already know, there is an inherent advantage to being part of the "big" clubs that have DA, ECNL, NPL, and CRL teams that you are missing with the smaller clubs which means options for top level players.  Mid to lower level players will gain no advantage, as well as players already playing on the top teams.  Whether its Legends, Arsenal, Slammer, Strikers, etc., the DOCs in these clubs are always looking to take their top players and move them to the higher level teams.  My experience is with Arsenal where their DA and ECNL teams are made up of players from all over the region, many of whom came from lower level Arsenal teams.  With the larger clubs, the better kids have many opportunities to be "club passed" between teams within the club.

That said, you have to be careful with the coach because every small and large club has coaches that don't play ball and attempt to hoard their better players and not recommend those players move up to the higher level teams.  Those players are money to them (fees and winning, which brings in more fees).  You have to watch out for these coaches.


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## mirage (Dec 15, 2017)

SoccerCraze12 said:


> Thank you for that. Yes, I'm looking at exposure based on the big club names. Slammers had a great reputation, but a bit far for us. We are in San Gabriel Valley area.


If my daughter was playing, and was good, then at this point in the soccer landscape, I'd look for DA club and not ECNL clubs.  I'm probably biased because our older son played DA and know just how much exposure they get compared to everything else.

The link (http://www.ussoccerda.com/2017-girls-club-map) shows which clubs have girls DA.  I'd start there.  Given that you're in SGV, your option maybe limited to LA Premier or Legends.  That said, its not unusual on the boys side to have parents drive their kid well over an hour each way to get him to practices.  In particular, I personally know couple of different parents that drove their kids over 60 miles each way, 4 days a week for multiple years to put them onto a top tier teams, including DA team.

So don't just look at the distance but also time involved. If you don't find the fit with DA, then ECNL would be the next step down.

Last, make sure you goto the core club the is actually running the DA/ECNL teams and not one of the satellite affiliate clubs or locations.  That means not West, East, South or North or this city or that city version of Slammers, Arsenal, Legends and so on.


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## SplitSoccerFamMom (Dec 16, 2017)

SoccerCraze12 said:


> Yes, I have 2 girls, 15 and 9.


What flight are you looking for them to play?  This also makes a difference on what type of program is offered.


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## INFAMEE (Dec 17, 2017)

MWN said:


> As you already know, there is an inherent advantage to being part of the "big" clubs that have DA, ECNL, NPL, and CRL teams that you are missing with the smaller clubs which means options for top level players.  Mid to lower level players will gain no advantage, as well as players already playing on the top teams.  Whether its Legends, Arsenal, Slammer, Strikers, etc., the DOCs in these clubs are always looking to take their top players and move them to the higher level teams.  My experience is with Arsenal where their DA and ECNL teams are made up of players from all over the region, many of whom came from lower level Arsenal teams.  With the larger clubs, the better kids have many opportunities to be "club passed" between teams within the club.
> 
> That said, you have to be careful with the coach because every small and large club has coaches that don't play ball and attempt to hoard their better players and not recommend those players move up to the higher level teams.  Those players are money to them (fees and winning, which brings in more fees).  You have to watch out for these coaches.


The problem with these super big recreational clubs is that their "higher level teams" are made up of underdeveloped players. Therefore competition dwindles within the pseudo realm of elite leagues. Big pay to play clubs entitlement to participate is not only a disservice to parents but ultimately the player on both sides. Reactionary cause for which these leagues were intended for i.e., not only does it instill  bad habits but impedes development.

MWN, you sure like to post a lot. The problem is not your affiliation with the most expensive recreational club (Arsenal) in the region. The problem is all the misinformation you share.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Dec 17, 2017)

My niece has been at Arsenal and she has done well.  College teams have been calling but your child will need to be a top player within the team to get a chance to obtain scholarships.   It's not good enough just making an academy team.  Arsenal gave her the platform for college coaches to see her but ultimately it comes down to child's performance on the field that will make it happen.


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## INFAMEE (Dec 18, 2017)

It's quite comical when your recreational club advertises this:

Arsenal FC

*Vision/Mission*

To provide a world class soccer program that develops world class soccer players.

http://www.arsenalfc.us/vision/

But they could only do this:

My niece has been at Arsenal and she has done well. College teams have been calling but your child will need to be a top player within the team to get a chance to obtain scholarships. It's not good enough just making an academy team. Arsenal gave her the platform for college coaches to see her but ultimately it comes down to child's performance on the field that will make it happen.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Dec 18, 2017)

INFAMEE said:


> It's quite comical when your recreational club advertises this:
> 
> Arsenal FC
> 
> ...



Infamee, Sounds like you are bitter, very bitter.  I have no interest and no kids going to Arsenal.  I can tell you that my niece got plenty of scholarships and the Arsenal coach pushed college recruiters to check her out.  Several of them are going to UCLA,  others are going to top schools.     If she was a sub player, the chances are not there.  She is a  starter and national level player so she got a good shot at college scholarships.      

  INFAMEE, you are clearly biased based on your negative experience.       To the original creator of this post, asking which club team is best, is like going to YELP and looking at the reviews of a great restaurant.  For every 10 great reviews, you will get a few mediocre reviews, and a couple of bad reviews.      Maybe email the college recruiters and ask them which clubs/programs they are evaluation often.


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## INFAMEE (Dec 18, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Infamee, Sounds like you are bitter, very bitter.  I have no interest and no kids going to Arsenal.  I can tell you that my niece got plenty of scholarships and the Arsenal coach pushed college recruiters to check her out.  Several of them are going to UCLA,  others are going to top schools.     If she was a sub player, the chances are not there.  She is a  starter and national level player so she got a good shot at college scholarships.
> 
> INFAMEE, you are clearly biased based on your negative experience.       To the original creator of this post, asking which club team is best, is like going to YELP and looking at the reviews of a great restaurant.  For every 10 great reviews, you will get a few mediocre reviews, and a couple of bad reviews.      Maybe email the college recruiters and ask them which clubs/programs they are evaluation often.


Bitter because I point out the obvious? Would you rather me be like every other lemming here and hi five mediocrity? 

Lol Its a gimmick and newcomers to this site have the right to know so.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Dec 19, 2017)

INFAMEE said:


> Bitter because I point out the obvious? Would you rather me be like every other lemming here and hi five mediocrity?
> 
> Lol Its a gimmick and newcomers to this site have the right to know so.[/QUOTE
> 
> Heck if my daughter can follow the footsteps of her cousin and  make it to an Arsenal Academy and obtain a scholarship at UCLA or USC, I will take Mediocrity!.   Unfortunately my daughter is no where near that level.


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