# Stat Analysis: Most Girls DA Clubs without Prior ECNL Experience Struggling



## SocalPapa

DA clubs generally fall into one of three categories:

1)  *Dual DA/ECNL (14 clubs):* clubs that kept their ECNL program even though they joined girls DA (tended to have a history of success in ECNL)

2)  *DA Only (38 clubs): *clubs that weren’t in ECNL but believed they could still put together teams that would be competitive in an elite national league.

3)  *Left ECNL (17 clubs): *clubs that disbanded their ECNL programs when they joined DA (generally had less prior success in ECNL than the dual clubs)

I wanted to see how these three types of clubs have been doing in DA relative to each other, so I downloaded all the game results to date from the DA website and ran some pivot tables.

The results show a distinct hierarchy:

- Dual clubs are generally the best
- Clubs that left ECNL are okay
- The majority of DA-only club teams have struggled

Here's some of what I saw:*

*1) OVERALL RECORD (W-L-T / Win-Loss Ratio):*
_win loss ratio = wins divided by losses_

*Dual Clubs*
vs DA Only Opponent (224-92-57 / 2.43)
vs Left ECNL Opponent (133-33-28 / 4.03)

*DA Only*
vs Dual Club Opponent (92-224-57 / 0.47)
vs Left ECNL Opponent (164-257-84 / 0.64)

*Left ECNL*
vs Dual Club Opponent (33-133-28 / 0.25)
vs DA Only Opponent (277-164-84 / 1.57)

*2) Total Goal Differential*

*Dual Clubs* +1038
U-14 +214
U-15 +295
U-16/17 +176
U-18/19 +353

*DA Only* -1042
U-14 -235
U-15 -299
U-16/17 -159
U-18/19 -349

*Left ECNL *+4
U-14 +21
U-15 +4
U-16/17 -17
U-18/19 -4
*
3) Goal Differential Per Game*

*Dual Clubs vs DA Only Opponent*
U-14 +1.71
U-15 +1.85
U-16/17 +1.09
U-18/19 +2.61
Total +1.41

*Dual Clubs vs Left ECNL Opponent*
U-14 +1.93
U-15 +2.24
U-16/17 +1.32
U-18/19 +2.02
Total +1.88

*DA Only vs Dual Club Opponent*
U-14 -1.71
U-15 -1.85
U-16/17 -1.09
U-18/19 -2.61
Total -1.41

*DA Only vs Left ECNL Opponent*
U-14 -0.99
U-15 -0.88
U-16/17 -0.37
U-18/19 -0.73
Total -0.73

*Left ECNL vs Dual Club Opponent*
U-14 -1.93
U-15 -2.24
U-16/17 -1.32
U-18/19 -2.02
Total -1.88

*Left ECNL vs DA Only Opponent*
U-14 0.99
U-15 0.88
U-16/17 0.37
U-18/19 0.73
Total 0.73

*4) Failed to Score (Percent of Games)*

*Dual Clubs*
vs Other Dual (25%)
vs DA only (15%)
vs Left ECNL (14%)

*DA Only*
vs Dual (41%)
vs Other DA Only (27%)
vs Left ECNL (32%)

*Left ECNL*
vs Dual (45%)
vs DA Only (24%)
vs Other Left ECNL (27%)

And to get a sense of which specific clubs are contributing most to the above results, here is the per game average goal differential for each DA club.

*GD Rank...Club...Avg Goal Differential*

*Dual   1.41*
1 NTH Tophat   3.63
2 Crossfire Premier  2.51
4 FC Dallas   2.04
6 Real Colorado  1.93
7 Solar Soccer Club  1.87
10 LAFC Slammers  1.62
11 Eclipse Select Soccer Club   1.60
12 So Cal Blues Soccer Club  1.49
13 Michigan Hawks  1.44
14 Concorde Fire   1.40
19 San Diego Surf   1.12
33 West Coast Futbol Club   0.40
38 FC Stars   (0.16)
47 Dallas Texans   (0.56)

*DA Only   (0.28)*

5 Sky Blue - PDA   1.95 [arguably a dual club]
8 Legends FC   1.83
9 New York City FC   1.69 [arguably a dual club]
15 FC Fury NY   1.37 [arguably a dual club]
16 NC Courage   1.20
18 Beach Futbol Club   1.18
21 La Roca Futbol Club   1.07
22 Midwest United FC   1.00
24 Cincinnati Development Academy   0.79
25 Placer United SC   0.73
26 Lonestar SC Academy   0.72
28 Lamorinda Soccer Club   0.67
29 LA Galaxy San Diego   0.61
31 Nationals   0.55
32 San Jose Earthquakes   0.51
36 Oakwood Soccer Club   0.20
37 Orlando Pride   0.14
42 Portland Thorns FC   (0.34)
43 United Futbol Academy   (0.38)
44 LA Galaxy   (0.43)
46 FC United Soccer Club   (0.48)
49 Los Angeles Premier Futbol Club   (0.68)
52 Virginia Development Academy   (0.98)
53 Sky Blue - NYSC   (1.00)
54 Pateadores   (1.04)
55 Cedar Stars Academy - Monmouth   (1.18)
56 Washington Spirit Academy - Virginia   (1.20)
57 Albion SC   (1.32)
58 United Soccer Alliance   (1.33)
59 Washington Spirit Academy - Baltimore Armour   (1.60)
61 PA Classics   (1.84)
62 Shattuck - Saint Mary's   (2.40)
64 PSV Union Football Club   (2.75)
65 IMG Academy   (3.08)
66 Long Island SC   (3.15)
67 Empire United   (3.48)
68 FC Kansas City   (3.80)
69 Burlingame Soccer Club   (5.73)

*Left ECNL   0.00*
3 Penn Fusion Soccer Academy   2.13 
17 FC Virginia   1.20 
20 Boston Breakers Academy   1.08 
23 Charlotte Soccer Academy   0.98 
27 SPORTING Blue Valley   0.71 
30 Real So Cal   0.56 
34 SC del Sol   0.37 
35 Reign Academy   0.34 
39 California Thorns FC   (0.16) 
40 Colorado Rush   (0.29) 
41 Weston FC   (0.33) 
45 Indiana Fire Academy   (0.47) 
48 Sockers FC   (0.65) 
50 Eagles Soccer Club   (0.87) 
51 Houston Dash   (0.95) 
60 Boca United Football Club   (1.76) 
63 West Florida Flames   (2.51) 

These stats seem to confirm that slapping a DA logo on a uniform doesn’t magically make a club any better.  The more successful clubs going in have pretty much remained so.

I should point out that a couple So Cal clubs that had not participated in ECNL (Legends and Beach) are off to a great start in DA.  However others (Albion and Pats) are farther behind.  And nationally there's some REALLY bad clubs out there (five are losing by more than 3 goals a game on average; Burlingame by almost 6).

*Results through 12/16/17 games.  The above stats were corrected on 12/21/17 to remove placeholder/dummy game results that had been included in the data table DA published online.


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## espola

If the intent of DA clubs/teams is player development, then W-L-T records are not the appropriate measurement.


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## SocalPapa

And here's the records of the So Cal DA teams (W-L-T) to date:*

*Albion SC*
U-14 3-5-3
U-15 5-5-4
U-16/17 3-11
U-18/19 2-10-2
Total 13-31-9

*Beach Futbol Club 125*
U-14 8-2-2
U-15 10-1-4
U-16/17 7-6-2
U-18/19 10-4-1
Total 35-13-9

*Eagles Soccer Club *
U-14 1-5-5
U-15 4-10-0
U-16/17 5-7-2
U-18/19 4-6-4
Total 14-28-11

*LA Galaxy*
U-14 4-3-3
U-15 5-8-0
U-16/17 4-6-3
U-18/19 3-7-3
Total 16-24-9

*LA Galaxy San Diego*
U-14 7-2-4
U-15 9-2-5
U-16/17 8-3-5
U-18/19 5-6-5
Total 29-13-19

*LAFC Slammers*
U-14 4-6-1
U-15 6-6-6
U-16/17 11-2-1
U-18/19 11-2-1
Total 32-16-5

*Legends FC*
U-14 9-2-2
U-15 11-1-4
U-16/17 10-3-2
U-18/19 9-3-3
Total 39-9-11

*Los Angeles Premier Futbol Club*
U-14 2-9-2
U-15 4-9-3
U-16/17 7-5-3
U-18/19 4-9-2
Total 17-32-10

*Pateadores*
U-14 1-9-2
U-15 6-6-3
U-16/17 3-11-1
U-18/19 5-6-4
Total 15-32-10
*
Real So Cal*
U-14 6-4-2
U-15 6-8-1
U-16/17 8-4-3
U-18/19 8-5-2
Total 28-21-8

*San Diego Surf*
U-14 7-3
U-15 7-3-3
U-16/17 6-3-4
U-18/19 9-3-1
Total 29-9-11

*So Cal Blues Soccer Club*
U-14 2-6-4
U-15 11-3-1
U-16/17 8-6-1
U-18/19 12-1-2
Total 33-16-8

*West Coast Futbol Club*
U-14 5-4-3
U-15 7-6-2
U-16/17 6-6-3
U-18/19 7-7-1
Total 25-23-9

*Results are through 12-16-17.  Corrections made to the above on 12/21 similar to those made to the OP.


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## SocalPapa

espola said:


> If the intent of DA clubs/teams is player development, then W-L-T records are not the appropriate measurement.


While DA says their program "isn't necessarily" about wins and losses, they've also said that they recognize "competing is an important part of development."  DA publishes the standings and determines opportunities for teams and players to advance in the playoffs based on those wins and losses.  Further, it's important for development that players are able to practice with and compete against like-talented players.  The results of the games (W-L and goal differential) are a good indication as to the variances that exist between teams in the girls DA program.  These aren't small variances.


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## espola

SocalPapa said:


> While DA says their program "isn't necessarily" about wins and losses, they've also said that they recognize "competing is an important part of development."  DA publishes the standings and determines opportunities for teams and players to advance in the playoffs based on those wins and losses.  Further, it's important for development that players are able to practice with and compete against like-talented players.  The results of the games (W-L and goal differential) are a good indication as to the variances that exist between teams in the girls DA program.  These aren't small variances.


When the boys DA program started, they showed how to "develop" players -- recruit the best players around.  Development was just a n atrractive word. I don't think things have changed much.


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## Simisoccerfan

I went to Florida and since I did not have much to do I watched a bunch of games besides those of my daughter.   I can tell you that I have watched a lot of youth soccer over the past decade I have never seen the such a collection of talented teams and players.  There is always going to be a top and a bottom of any league but in my opinion the bottom of DA is still significantly better than Flight 1, Premier or DPL.


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## Mystery Train

Simisoccerfan said:


> I went to Florida and since I did not have much to do I watched a bunch of games besides those of my daughter.   I can tell you that I have watched a lot of youth soccer over the past decade I have never seen the such a collection of talented teams and players.  There is always going to be a top and a bottom of any league but in my opinion the bottom of DA is still significantly better than Flight 1, Premier or DPL.


That should be the case.  DA is a rival of ECNL, not the others.  What, if any, differences did you notice between the DA teams from other regions of the country vs. SoCal DA teams?  Style of play/skill level/depth, etc.


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## Simisoccerfan

I don't know that I saw really differences that were the result of teams being in different regions of the country.   We already have different styles of play within SoCal and it was similar at this event.  I did notice a lot less parents on the sidelines for the SoCal teams which was likely a function that we had to travel farther.   Couple this with the time zone change and there had to a benefit to be a Eastern Time Zone team that travelled with a lot of parent support.  Skill level and depth was similar but there are a lot more DA teams in SoCal than in other regions.   To me this means we have a greater concentration of talent here.


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## Lambchop

Mystery Train said:


> That should be the case.  DA is a rival of ECNL, not the others.  What, if any, differences did you notice between the DA teams from other regions of the country vs. SoCal DA teams?  Style of play/skill level/depth, etc.


Teams were matched based on where the placed in their league for the most part.  A lower place team played a lower placed team from a different conference. The top teams played against each other.  In addition, certain conferences are stronger than others.  So a win against a lower place team actually raised their placement in their home league and conversely a loss to a top team lowered their placement in their home league.  The schedule was very interesting.


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## smellycleats

SocalPapa said:


> DA clubs generally fall into one of three categories:
> 
> 1)  *Dual DA/ECNL (14 clubs):* clubs that kept their ECNL program even though they joined girls DA (tended to have a history of success in ECNL)
> 
> 2)  *DA Only (38 clubs): *clubs that weren’t in ECNL but believed they could still put together teams that would be competitive in an elite national league.
> 
> 3)  *Left ECNL (17 clubs): *clubs that disbanded their ECNL programs when they joined DA (generally had less prior success in ECNL than the dual clubs)
> 
> I wanted to see how these three types of clubs have been doing in DA relative to each other, so I downloaded all the game results to date from the DA website and ran some pivot tables.
> 
> The results show a distinct hierarchy:
> 
> - Dual clubs are generally the best
> - Clubs that left ECNL are okay
> - The majority of DA-only club teams have struggled
> 
> Here's some of what I saw:
> 
> *1) OVERALL RECORD (W-L-T / Win-Loss Ratio):*
> _win loss ratio = wins divided by losses_
> 
> *Dual Clubs*
> vs DA Only Opponent (222-89-405 / 2.49)
> vs Left ECNL Opponent (133-33-244 / 4.03)
> 
> *DA Only*
> vs Dual Club Opponent (111-238-445 / 0.47)
> vs Left ECNL Opponent (164-257-577 / 0.64)
> 
> *Left ECNL*
> vs Dual Club Opponent (47-136-258 / 0.35)
> vs DA Only Opponent (243-161-563 / 1.51)
> 
> *2) Total Goal Differential*
> 
> *Dual Clubs* +1038
> U-14 +214
> U-15 +295
> U-16/17 +176
> U-18/19 +353
> 
> * DA Only* -1042
> U-14 -235
> U-15 -299
> U-16/17 -159
> U-18/19 -349
> 
> * Left ECNL *+4
> U-14 21
> U-15 4
> U-16/17 -17
> U-18/19 -4
> *
> 3) Goal Differential Per Game*
> 
> *Dual Clubs vs DA Only Opponent *
> U-14 +0.85
> U-15 +0.92
> U-16/17 +0.38
> U-18/19 +1.36
> Total +0.93
> 
> *Dual Clubs vs Left ECNL Opponent*
> U-14 +0.83
> U-15 +1.09
> U-16/17 +0.63
> U-18/19 +0.99
> Total +0.89
> 
> *DA Only vs Dual Club Opponent*
> U-14 -0.81
> U-15 -0.87
> U-16/17 -0.49
> U-18/19 -1.12
> Total -0.82
> 
> *DA Only vs Left ECNL Opponent*
> U-14 -0.45
> U-15 -0.46
> U-16/17 -0.19
> U-18/19 -0.39
> Total -0.37
> 
> *Left ECNL vs Dual Club Opponent*
> U-14 -0.76
> U-15 -0.90
> U-16/17 -0.43
> U-18/19 -0.82
> Total -0.73
> 
> *Left ECNL vs DA Only Opponent*
> U-14 +0.46
> U-15 +0.42
> U-16/17 +0.13
> U-18/19 +0.35
> Total +0.34
> 
> *4) Failed to Score (Percent of Games)*
> 
> *Dual Clubs*
> vs Other Dual (62%)
> vs DA only (56%)
> vs Left ECNL (60%)
> 
> *DA Only*
> vs Dual (68%)
> vs Other DA Only (61%)
> vs Left ECNL (66%)
> 
> *Left ECNL*
> vs Dual (72%)
> vs DA Only (62%)
> vs Other Left ECNL (62%)
> 
> And to get a sense of which specific clubs are contributing most to the above results, here is the per game average goal differential for each DA club.
> 
> *GD Rank...Club...Avg Goal Differential *
> 
> *Dual   0.71*
> 1 NTH Tophat   1.61
> 2 Crossfire Premier   1.38
> 5 FC Dallas   1.10
> 7 Eclipse Select Soccer Club   1.06
> 9 Solar Soccer Club   0.94
> 10 Real Colorado   0.90
> 12 Michigan Hawks   0.80
> 13 Concorde Fire   0.79
> 15 LAFC Slammers   0.69
> 16 So Cal Blues Soccer Club   0.68
> 24 San Diego Surf   0.44
> 34 West Coast Futbol Club   0.18
> 39 FC Stars   (0.12)
> 48 Dallas Texans   (0.30)
> 
> * DA Only   (0.28) *
> 3 New York City FC   1.37
> 4 FC Fury NY   1.17
> 6 Sky Blue - PDA   1.09
> 11 Legends FC   0.82
> 18 Midwest United FC   0.59
> 19 NC Courage   0.56
> 20 Beach Futbol Club   0.54
> 21 La Roca Futbol Club   0.52
> 23 Cincinnati Development Academy   0.44
> 25 Nationals   0.38
> 26 Lonestar SC Academy   0.36
> 27 Placer United SC   0.34
> 29 Lamorinda Soccer Club   0.33
> 30 San Jose Earthquakes   0.32
> 31 LA Galaxy San Diego   0.30
> 36 Oakwood Soccer Club   0.12
> 37 Orlando Pride   0.06
> 42 United Futbol Academy   (0.16)
> 43 LA Galaxy   (0.17)
> 44 Portland Thorns FC   (0.19)
> 46 FC United Soccer Club   (0.23)
> 47 Los Angeles Premier Futbol Club   (0.30)
> 51 Pateadores   (0.47)
> 52 Virginia Development Academy   (0.51)
> 54 United Soccer Alliance   (0.55)
> 55 Albion SC   (0.56)
> 56 Cedar Stars Academy - Monmouth   (0.66)
> 57 Washington Spirit Academy - Virginia   (0.67)
> 58 Sky Blue - NYSC   (0.75)
> 60 PA Classics   (0.83)
> 61 Washington Spirit Academy - Baltimore Armour   (0.83)
> 63 IMG Academy   (1.35)
> 64 Shattuck - Saint Mary's   (1.53)
> 65 PSV Union Football Club   (1.60)
> 66 FC Kansas City   (1.76)
> 67 Empire United   (1.88)
> 68 Long Island SC   (2.04)
> 69 Burlingame Soccer Club   (2.86)
> 
> * Left ECNL   0.00 *
> 8 Penn Fusion Soccer Academy   1.04
> 14 Boston Breakers Academy   0.78
> 17 FC Virginia   0.67
> 22 Charlotte Soccer Academy   0.50
> 28 SPORTING Blue Valley   0.33
> 32 Real So Cal   0.26
> 33 Reign Academy   0.23
> 35 SC del Sol   0.17
> 38 California Thorns FC   (0.08)
> 40 Colorado Rush   (0.13)
> 41 Weston FC   (0.15)
> 45 Indiana Fire Academy   (0.21)
> 49 Eagles Soccer Club   (0.37)
> 50 Sockers FC   (0.42)
> 53 Houston Dash   (0.51)
> 59 Boca United Football Club   (0.79)
> 62 West Florida Flames   (1.13)
> 
> These stats seem to confirm that slapping a DA logo on a uniform doesn’t magically make a club any better.  The more successful clubs going in have pretty much remained so.
> 
> I should point out that a couple So Cal clubs that had not participated in ECNL (Legends and Beach) are off to a great start in DA.  However others (Albion and Pats) are farther behind.  And nationally there's some REALLY bad DA only clubs out there (Burlingame and Long Island).


 Very comprehensive analysis. Impressive. Just a sidenote to the description of your categories- The clubs in category 3 did not disband their ECNL programs. They applied for ECNL and were denied.


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## LadiesMan217

SocalPapa said:


> DA clubs generally fall into one of three categories:
> 
> 1)  *Dual DA/ECNL (14 clubs):* clubs that kept their ECNL program even though they joined girls DA (tended to have a history of success in ECNL)
> 
> 2)  *DA Only (38 clubs): *clubs that weren’t in ECNL but believed they could still put together teams that would be competitive in an elite national league.
> 
> 3)  *Left ECNL (17 clubs): *clubs that disbanded their ECNL programs when they joined DA (generally had less prior success in ECNL than the dual clubs)
> 
> I wanted to see how these three types of clubs have been doing in DA relative to each other, so I downloaded all the game results to date from the DA website and ran some pivot tables.
> 
> The results show a distinct hierarchy:
> 
> - Dual clubs are generally the best
> - Clubs that left ECNL are okay
> - The majority of DA-only club teams have struggled
> 
> Here's some of what I saw:
> 
> *1) OVERALL RECORD (W-L-T / Win-Loss Ratio):*
> _win loss ratio = wins divided by losses_
> 
> *Dual Clubs*
> vs DA Only Opponent (222-89-405 / 2.49)
> vs Left ECNL Opponent (133-33-244 / 4.03)
> 
> *DA Only*
> vs Dual Club Opponent (111-238-445 / 0.47)
> vs Left ECNL Opponent (164-257-577 / 0.64)
> 
> *Left ECNL*
> vs Dual Club Opponent (47-136-258 / 0.35)
> vs DA Only Opponent (243-161-563 / 1.51)
> 
> *2) Total Goal Differential*
> 
> *Dual Clubs* +1038
> U-14 +214
> U-15 +295
> U-16/17 +176
> U-18/19 +353
> 
> * DA Only* -1042
> U-14 -235
> U-15 -299
> U-16/17 -159
> U-18/19 -349
> 
> * Left ECNL *+4
> U-14 21
> U-15 4
> U-16/17 -17
> U-18/19 -4
> *
> 3) Goal Differential Per Game*
> 
> *Dual Clubs vs DA Only Opponent *
> U-14 +0.85
> U-15 +0.92
> U-16/17 +0.38
> U-18/19 +1.36
> Total +0.93
> 
> *Dual Clubs vs Left ECNL Opponent*
> U-14 +0.83
> U-15 +1.09
> U-16/17 +0.63
> U-18/19 +0.99
> Total +0.89
> 
> *DA Only vs Dual Club Opponent*
> U-14 -0.81
> U-15 -0.87
> U-16/17 -0.49
> U-18/19 -1.12
> Total -0.82
> 
> *DA Only vs Left ECNL Opponent*
> U-14 -0.45
> U-15 -0.46
> U-16/17 -0.19
> U-18/19 -0.39
> Total -0.37
> 
> *Left ECNL vs Dual Club Opponent*
> U-14 -0.76
> U-15 -0.90
> U-16/17 -0.43
> U-18/19 -0.82
> Total -0.73
> 
> *Left ECNL vs DA Only Opponent*
> U-14 +0.46
> U-15 +0.42
> U-16/17 +0.13
> U-18/19 +0.35
> Total +0.34
> 
> *4) Failed to Score (Percent of Games)*
> 
> *Dual Clubs*
> vs Other Dual (62%)
> vs DA only (56%)
> vs Left ECNL (60%)
> 
> *DA Only*
> vs Dual (68%)
> vs Other DA Only (61%)
> vs Left ECNL (66%)
> 
> *Left ECNL*
> vs Dual (72%)
> vs DA Only (62%)
> vs Other Left ECNL (62%)
> 
> And to get a sense of which specific clubs are contributing most to the above results, here is the per game average goal differential for each DA club.
> 
> *GD Rank...Club...Avg Goal Differential *
> 
> *Dual   0.71*
> 1 NTH Tophat   1.61
> 2 Crossfire Premier   1.38
> 5 FC Dallas   1.10
> 7 Eclipse Select Soccer Club   1.06
> 9 Solar Soccer Club   0.94
> 10 Real Colorado   0.90
> 12 Michigan Hawks   0.80
> 13 Concorde Fire   0.79
> 15 LAFC Slammers   0.69
> 16 So Cal Blues Soccer Club   0.68
> 24 San Diego Surf   0.44
> 34 West Coast Futbol Club   0.18
> 39 FC Stars   (0.12)
> 48 Dallas Texans   (0.30)
> 
> * DA Only   (0.28) *
> 3 New York City FC   1.37
> 4 FC Fury NY   1.17
> 6 Sky Blue - PDA   1.09
> 11 Legends FC   0.82
> 18 Midwest United FC   0.59
> 19 NC Courage   0.56
> 20 Beach Futbol Club   0.54
> 21 La Roca Futbol Club   0.52
> 23 Cincinnati Development Academy   0.44
> 25 Nationals   0.38
> 26 Lonestar SC Academy   0.36
> 27 Placer United SC   0.34
> 29 Lamorinda Soccer Club   0.33
> 30 San Jose Earthquakes   0.32
> 31 LA Galaxy San Diego   0.30
> 36 Oakwood Soccer Club   0.12
> 37 Orlando Pride   0.06
> 42 United Futbol Academy   (0.16)
> 43 LA Galaxy   (0.17)
> 44 Portland Thorns FC   (0.19)
> 46 FC United Soccer Club   (0.23)
> 47 Los Angeles Premier Futbol Club   (0.30)
> 51 Pateadores   (0.47)
> 52 Virginia Development Academy   (0.51)
> 54 United Soccer Alliance   (0.55)
> 55 Albion SC   (0.56)
> 56 Cedar Stars Academy - Monmouth   (0.66)
> 57 Washington Spirit Academy - Virginia   (0.67)
> 58 Sky Blue - NYSC   (0.75)
> 60 PA Classics   (0.83)
> 61 Washington Spirit Academy - Baltimore Armour   (0.83)
> 63 IMG Academy   (1.35)
> 64 Shattuck - Saint Mary's   (1.53)
> 65 PSV Union Football Club   (1.60)
> 66 FC Kansas City   (1.76)
> 67 Empire United   (1.88)
> 68 Long Island SC   (2.04)
> 69 Burlingame Soccer Club   (2.86)
> 
> * Left ECNL   0.00 *
> 8 Penn Fusion Soccer Academy   1.04
> 14 Boston Breakers Academy   0.78
> 17 FC Virginia   0.67
> 22 Charlotte Soccer Academy   0.50
> 28 SPORTING Blue Valley   0.33
> 32 Real So Cal   0.26
> 33 Reign Academy   0.23
> 35 SC del Sol   0.17
> 38 California Thorns FC   (0.08)
> 40 Colorado Rush   (0.13)
> 41 Weston FC   (0.15)
> 45 Indiana Fire Academy   (0.21)
> 49 Eagles Soccer Club   (0.37)
> 50 Sockers FC   (0.42)
> 53 Houston Dash   (0.51)
> 59 Boca United Football Club   (0.79)
> 62 West Florida Flames   (1.13)
> 
> These stats seem to confirm that slapping a DA logo on a uniform doesn’t magically make a club any better.  The more successful clubs going in have pretty much remained so.
> 
> I should point out that a couple So Cal clubs that had not participated in ECNL (Legends and Beach) are off to a great start in DA.  However others (Albion and Pats) are farther behind.  And nationally there's some REALLY bad DA only clubs out there (Burlingame and Long Island).


Depends on how you measure success. I can see what your measurement is based on your post and that is what most people want. My DD has played/plays for the 'successful' clubs and yes she won lots of games and played in national championships. A lot of natural talent went to the club (or was recruited in) - it is all about winning and my DD loves playing with the best teammates. My DD, beyond her raw talent for the game, developed by playing with these other talented players - the clubs did little for her development other than give her the platform.

Now on to your comment slapping DA logo doesn't make a club any better. IMO, the two best developing clubs in SW are LAG and Pats. They have thrown a great set of coaches together, have trainers/PT/GPS, nutrition coaches, (LAG even 'mental' trainers working with girls), and funded the program. Both those clubs are much better than they were last year and of course there was no magic involved. Now, in the older age groups they did not start off with 2 existing ECNL teams and took the best players to form a 'successful' team like LAFC Slammers; so, of course they are not going to be a 'successful' club in the first couple of seasons. I know my DD did not want to join either club because they were not 'good' and I know a few others on my DD club that looked and had the same feeling and stayed put. 

Nothing will change - it is all about money and wins to keep the paying parents coming... No need to spend your time doing what you did - all it does is continue to foster and fuel the problem.


----------



## nosubs

SocalPapa said:


> And here's the records of the So Cal DA teams (W-L-T) to date:
> 
> *Albion SC*
> U-14 3-21-5
> U-15 5-5-22
> U-16/17 3-11-18
> U-18/19 2-10-20
> Total 13-31-81
> 
> *Beach Futbol Club 125*
> U-14 8-2-19
> U-15 10-1-21
> U-16/17 7-6-19
> U-18/19 10-4-18
> Total 35-13-77
> 
> *Eagles Soccer Club *
> U-14 1-5-23
> U-15 4-10-18
> U-16/17 5-7-20
> U-18/19 4-6-22
> Total 14-28-83
> 
> *LA Galaxy*
> U-14 4-3-22
> U-15 5-8-19
> U-16/17 4-6-22
> U-18/19 3-7-22
> Total 16-24-85
> 
> *LA Galaxy San Diego*
> U-14 7-2-20
> U-15 9-2-21
> U-16/17 8-3-21
> U-18/19 5-6-21
> Total 29-13-83
> 
> *LAFC Slammers*
> U-14 4-6-19
> U-15 6-6-20
> U-16/17 11-2-19
> U-18/19 11-2-19
> Total 31-16-77
> 
> *Legends FC*
> U-14 9-2-18
> U-15 11-1-20
> U-16/17 9-5-18
> U-18/19 9-3-20
> Total 38-11-76
> 
> *Los Angeles Premier Futbol Club*
> U-14 2-9-18
> U-15 4-9-19
> U-16/17 8-5-19
> U-18/19 4-9-19
> Total 18-32-75
> 
> *Pateadores*
> U-14 1-9-19
> U-15 6-6-20
> U-16/17 3-11-18
> U-18/19 5-6-21
> Total 15-32-78
> *
> Real So Cal*
> U-14 6-4-19
> U-15 6-8-18
> U-16/17 8-4-20
> U-18/19 8-5-19
> Total 28-21-76
> 
> *San Diego Surf*
> U-14 7-0-22
> U-15 7-3-22
> U-16/17 6-3-23
> U-18/19 9-3-20
> Total 29-9-87
> 
> *So Cal Blues Soccer Club*
> U-14 2-6-21
> U-15 11-3-18
> U-16/17 8-6-18
> U-18/19 12-1-19
> Total 33-16-76
> 
> *West Coast Futbol Club*
> U-14 5-4-20
> U-15 7-6-19
> U-16/17 6-6-20
> U-18/19 7-7-18
> Total 25-23-77


How are the records that you posted possible, most of these teams have only played 16 games if that?
Here are the records for the U15 southwest division


SocalPapa said:


> And here's the records of the So Cal DA teams (W-L-T) to date:
> 
> *Albion SC*
> U-14 3-21-5
> U-15 5-5-22
> U-16/17 3-11-18
> U-18/19 2-10-20
> Total 13-31-81
> 
> *Beach Futbol Club 125*
> U-14 8-2-19
> U-15 10-1-21
> U-16/17 7-6-19
> U-18/19 10-4-18
> Total 35-13-77
> 
> *Eagles Soccer Club *
> U-14 1-5-23
> U-15 4-10-18
> U-16/17 5-7-20
> U-18/19 4-6-22
> Total 14-28-83
> 
> *LA Galaxy*
> U-14 4-3-22
> U-15 5-8-19
> U-16/17 4-6-22
> U-18/19 3-7-22
> Total 16-24-85
> 
> *LA Galaxy San Diego*
> U-14 7-2-20
> U-15 9-2-21
> U-16/17 8-3-21
> U-18/19 5-6-21
> Total 29-13-83
> 
> *LAFC Slammers*
> U-14 4-6-19
> U-15 6-6-20
> U-16/17 11-2-19
> U-18/19 11-2-19
> Total 31-16-77
> 
> *Legends FC*
> U-14 9-2-18
> U-15 11-1-20
> U-16/17 9-5-18
> U-18/19 9-3-20
> Total 38-11-76
> 
> *Los Angeles Premier Futbol Club*
> U-14 2-9-18
> U-15 4-9-19
> U-16/17 8-5-19
> U-18/19 4-9-19
> Total 18-32-75
> 
> *Pateadores*
> U-14 1-9-19
> U-15 6-6-20
> U-16/17 3-11-18
> U-18/19 5-6-21
> Total 15-32-78
> *
> Real So Cal*
> U-14 6-4-19
> U-15 6-8-18
> U-16/17 8-4-20
> U-18/19 8-5-19
> Total 28-21-76
> 
> *San Diego Surf*
> U-14 7-0-22
> U-15 7-3-22
> U-16/17 6-3-23
> U-18/19 9-3-20
> Total 29-9-87
> 
> *So Cal Blues Soccer Club*
> U-14 2-6-21
> U-15 11-3-18
> U-16/17 8-6-18
> U-18/19 12-1-19
> Total 33-16-76
> 
> *West Coast Futbol Club*
> U-14 5-4-20
> U-15 7-6-19
> U-16/17 6-6-20
> U-18/19 7-7-18
> Total 25-23-77


Southwest - U-15 West
*Team* * Games * * Wins * * Losses * * Ties * * Pts * * GF * * GA *
 Legends FC U-15  16 11 1 4 37 49 17
 So Cal Blues Soccer Club U-15  15 11 3 1 34 51 15
 Beach Futbol Club U-15  15 10 1 4 34 34 15
 LA Galaxy San Diego U-15  16 9 2 5 32 37 22
 SC del Sol U-15  15 8 6 1 25 38 32
 San Diego Surf U-15  13 7 3 3 24 26 14
 West Coast Futbol Club U-15  15 7 6 2 23 26 19
 LAFC Slammers U-15  14 6 6 2 20 19 20
 Pateadores U-15  14 6 6 2 20 17 21
 Albion SC U-15  14 5 5 4 19 24 25
 Real So Cal U-15  15 6 8 1 19 17 22
 LA Galaxy U-15  13 5 8 0 15 22 20
 Los Angeles Premier Futbol Club U-15  16 4 9 3 15 23 38
 Eagles Soccer Club U-15  14 4 10 0 12 21 45
Most of these teams have only played up to 16 games including the showcase. I think your numbers are inflated unless your including records from tournaments or futsal or something.


----------



## Lvdepech

Nationwide


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## jose

It is the first year.  The DA teams without ECNL team experience are more than likely new teams.  Or they are tier 2 teams or players that formed that team.  (with exceptions of course) One year is way to small a sample size. Five years after the movement and the dust has settled would give us a better look to see where things are so i'll hold off judgement until then


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## Josep

Here’s the other thing.  The schedules are imbalanced.  Some clubs have had easier/harder schedule than others.   Showcase showed some of that too.  Will probably see a little more clarity when the season is over.  

One other thing about DA - it’s the first year and you can bet you had some cling on to ecnl or not play DA because of FOMO it high school.  

It might take another year or two for it to fully congeal.


----------



## Round

A lot of statistics, but doesn't necessarily mean what you are trying to conclude.  Give it a couple of years, it will even out and suck a little more.  

At least as far as San Diego goes, it's working out as would be expected.  Albion has never been a good ppl lace for girls, why would that have changed?


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## Sunil Illuminati

LadiesMan217 said:


> . IMO, the two best developing clubs in SW are LAG and Pats. They have thrown a great set of coaches together, have trainers/PT/GPS, nutrition coaches, (LAG even 'mental' trainers working with girls), and funded the program. Both those clubs are much better than they were last year and of course there was no magic involved.


Why do you think these are the two best developing clubs? Aren't a high percentage of their players brought in from other organizations? curios why that qualifies them as being developing clubs?


----------



## DT32

A few notes from the east coast:

The 'DA Only' clubs are probably worse as the top 3 are really dual clubs. NYCFC is really World Class, Fury NY is Albertson, and Sky Blue - PDA, is obviously PDA.

There were some 'clever' distinctions put in place so the clubs could keep ECNL. World Class and NYCFC are two different organizations now, but the players are from WC. Fury was a made up organization; not really sure how that got through, and PDA can field two high quality teams and maintain the distinction with the Sky Blue partnership.


----------



## tugs

espola said:


> If the intent of DA clubs/teams is player development, then W-L-T records are not the appropriate measurement.


If the intent of DA itself is "player development" their FIFA substitution rules should be changed...


----------



## Josep

tugs said:


> If the intent of DA itself is "player development" their FIFA substitution rules should be changed...


Imagine those poor 06s with their playing time next year.  Kids that age shouldn’t be so limited.


----------



## rizzle

tugs said:


> If the intent of DA itself is "player development" their FIFA substitution rules should be changed...


This is actually a topic I am surprised I don't hear more complaints about and wonder if there is any advocacy from the people who supposedly have any authority or involvement in the system that can have a voice in changing this.  Is there legitimate concern that kids who will eventually be national team players won't be able to adapt to this if they didn't already have years of experience with the subbing rule in effect?  And for the 06s, I fail to see the benefit of subjecting those girls to that rule their first year of academy AND their first year on a full size field (if implemented next year).  Boys 12s last year did not for the youngest age group, if we see girls U13 emerge would love to see the same happen for them that we did the boys with the unlimited subbing.  Hopefully there is someone that matters in the decision-making process that feels the same way.


----------



## MarkM

rizzle said:


> This is actually a topic I am surprised I don't hear more complaints about and wonder if there is any advocacy from the people who supposedly have any authority or involvement in the system that can have a voice in changing this.  Is there legitimate concern that kids who will eventually be national team players won't be able to adapt to this if they didn't already have years of experience with the subbing rule in effect?  And for the 06s, I fail to see the benefit of subjecting those girls to that rule their first year of academy AND their first year on a full size field (if implemented next year).  Boys 12s last year did not for the youngest age group, if we see girls U13 emerge would love to see the same happen for them that we did the boys with the unlimited subbing.  Hopefully there is someone that matters in the decision-making process that feels the same way.


The rule only needs to be changed if clubs roster more than 15-16 girls.  Clubs should stop rostering so many girls.  It's not like we have that much talent to roster 14 teams, so why roster 14 teams with 20+ kids on a team.  If the club is rostering that many girls, parents should move their kid elsewhere unless they know their kid will get big minutes.

The soccer is much, much better with the limited substitution rules.  Maybe allow more dual rostering or make other changes, but keep the limited substitution rules.


----------



## Justafan

rizzle said:


> This is actually a topic I am surprised I don't hear more complaints about and wonder if there is any advocacy from the people who supposedly have any authority or involvement in the system that can have a voice in changing this.  Is there legitimate concern that kids who will eventually be national team players won't be able to adapt to this if they didn't already have years of experience with the subbing rule in effect?  And for the 06s, I fail to see the benefit of subjecting those girls to that rule their first year of academy AND their first year on a full size field (if implemented next year).  Boys 12s last year did not for the youngest age group, if we see girls U13 emerge would love to see the same happen for them that we did the boys with the unlimited subbing.  Hopefully there is someone that matters in the decision-making process that feels the same way.


Agree 100%.  This is the most asinine rule of all time.  So the theory is that this makes the players get acclimated to the national team rules or FIFA rules or whatever.  WRONG.  A player is either ready to play a full 90 or not.  Maybe they're only physically fit to play 25, 45, or 60.  There is no strategy involved in this.  

The strategy or acclimation is for the COACH to get used to figuring out his or her lineup according to the limitation of his or her roster.  If this is truly for development, it's for the development of their soccer skills!  At this point of their development, who gives a rats ass about how many times you go in and out of the lineup.  Again, any strategy with limited substitution rules are for the coaches not the players.   

And to MarkM's point, he's right, this wouldn't be an issue if rosters were kept to 15-16 players.  With limited substitution, and rosters of 20+, it may be driving players out of DA to get more minutes elsewhere.  But isn't TRAINING the most important point of DA?  So if training is the most important aspect, have more flexible substitution rules so more players get more play time and stick with DA.  Then you have the type of roster to get the most out of your training, which is most important for development at this point in their journeys.


----------



## MarkM

Justafan said:


> Agree 100%.  This is the most asinine rule of all time.  So the theory is that this makes the players get acclimated to the national team rules or FIFA rules or whatever.  WRONG.  A player is either ready to play a full 90 or not.  Maybe they're only physically fit to play 25, 45, or 60.  There is no strategy involved in this.
> 
> The strategy or acclimation is for the COACH to get used to figuring out his or her lineup according to the limitation of his or her roster.  If this is truly for development, it's for the development of their soccer skills!  At this point of their development, who gives a rats ass about how many times you go in and out of the lineup.  Again, any strategy with limited substitution rules are for the coaches not the players.
> 
> And to MarkM's point, he's right, this wouldn't be an issue if rosters were kept to 15-16 players.  With limited substitution, and rosters of 20+, it may be driving players out of DA to get more minutes elsewhere.  But isn't TRAINING the most important point of DA?  So if training is the most important aspect, have more flexible substitution rules so more players get more play time and stick with DA.  Then you have the type of roster to get the most out of your training, which is most important for development at this point in their journeys.


Funny.  You think its the most asinine rule of all time.  I think its the one real plus to the DA system over ECNL.  Haven't you noticed the difference in style of play this year, especially in the last 7-10 minutes of each half?  "The sub rules, where some guys run 15 players in and out in a game, allows people to press and just run bodies all game long at you. I’d like to change that, but there is resistance from other coaches – it’s a crutch. The fact is, if you can’t sub, you have to teach kids how to play the game.”  https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/oct/05/american-college-soccer-substitutes-rule


----------



## Justafan

MarkM said:


> Funny.  You think its the most asinine rule of all time.  I think its the one real plus to the DA system over ECNL.  Haven't you noticed the difference in style of play this year, especially in the last 7-10 minutes of each half?  "The sub rules, where some guys run 15 players in and out in a game, allows people to press and just run bodies all game long at you. I’d like to change that, but there is resistance from other coaches – it’s a crutch. The fact is, if you can’t sub, you have to teach kids how to play the game.”  https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/oct/05/american-college-soccer-substitutes-rule


Excellent point, never thought of it this way.  You're right, if they weren't playing to win and subbing in fresh bodies for the sake of fresh bodies to outlast you physically, then I may have a point.  If DA is for development and not winning, then it shouldn't be a problem, but it appears to be.  As you said, there is resistance from the coaches, I wonder why.  Maybe the sub rules are the only way we can get away from the "press and run."  Damn, I forgot we were in SoCal.  

On a similar point, after watching the women's team at UNC for the last couple of years, I wondered why Anson Dorrance is so revered.  He just figured it out first, recruit the best soccer athletes, and press and run all game long.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I think there is value to the DA substitution rule at least for the older girls.   It allows girls to make mistakes during the game and learn from them since they coach can't freely sub.  I believe it also allows for a more tactical and skillful game since the coach can't just keep rotating in fresh players and have them press the full 90 minutes.   Endurance, technical skills and creativity all become a premium. 

I do agree that it can create issues with teams with a large roster.  At least the DA has the 25% start rule.   I have seen a lot of SCDSL and CSL teams with a roster of 18 where 15-18 never start or get much playing time.


----------



## Josep

A friend told me their daughter was getting 6 mins a half on an 06 team that will be DA next year.   It’s ludicrous to not be playing kids more now.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Sounds like a kid that won't make the DA program next year or she will be playing more under the DA rules.   DA requires 25% starts for all players and with limited sub rules players tend to get decent time when they play.  Just take a look at the player stats and match reports on the USSDA website.   They would not be able to get away with playing her so little.


----------



## Josep

I’m familiar with it.  My kid plays DA.  I’m guessing she won’t make it, will probably be on the DA2 or whatever which should serve her well.  At that age, it’s too early to be DA, IMO.


----------



## tugs

Simisoccerfan said:


> Sounds like a kid that won't make the DA program next year or she will be playing more under the DA rules.   DA requires 25% starts for all players and with limited sub rules players tend to get decent time when they play.  Just take a look at the player stats and match reports on the USSDA website.   They would not be able to get away with playing her so little.


25% start rule is a start unless coach starts the bench player and only plays them less than a half never to return that same game...


----------



## Simisoccerfan

tugs said:


> 25% start rule is a start unless coach starts the bench player and only plays them less than a half never to return that same game...


Help me understand what you are saying here.


----------



## Fact

tugs said:


> 25% start rule is a start unless coach starts the bench player and only plays them less than a half never to return that same game...





Simisoccerfan said:


> Help me understand what you are saying here.


He is saying that his dd starts 25% of the games as required
and then is pulled out at half time.  Maybe you should look at the ECNL team if you are not happy with playing time.


----------



## SocalPapa

nosubs said:


> How are the records that you posted possible, most of these teams have only played 16 games if that?
> Here are the records for the U15 southwest division
> 
> Southwest - U-15 West
> *Team* * Games * * Wins * * Losses * * Ties * * Pts * * GF * * GA *
> Legends FC U-15  16 11 1 4 37 49 17
> So Cal Blues Soccer Club U-15  15 11 3 1 34 51 15
> Beach Futbol Club U-15  15 10 1 4 34 34 15
> LA Galaxy San Diego U-15  16 9 2 5 32 37 22
> SC del Sol U-15  15 8 6 1 25 38 32
> San Diego Surf U-15  13 7 3 3 24 26 14
> West Coast Futbol Club U-15  15 7 6 2 23 26 19
> LAFC Slammers U-15  14 6 6 2 20 19 20
> Pateadores U-15  14 6 6 2 20 17 21
> Albion SC U-15  14 5 5 4 19 24 25
> Real So Cal U-15  15 6 8 1 19 17 22
> LA Galaxy U-15  13 5 8 0 15 22 20
> Los Angeles Premier Futbol Club U-15  16 4 9 3 15 23 38
> Eagles Soccer Club U-15  14 4 10 0 12 21 45
> Most of these teams have only played up to 16 games including the showcase. I think your numbers are inflated unless your including records from tournaments or futsal or something.


I've been away from this board for a while and am just now seeing your comment.  You are right.  The data has too many games.  I looked back at the data table that DA had posted and see that it has placeholders for future games (with 0-0 as the result).  That's why there are so many ties.  I should have noticed that.  Sorry for the confusion.  I have now rerun the analysis without those placeholder scores with the corrections made in the original post.  The discrepancy between the top and bottom teams increased.


----------



## Chris Knight

Justafan said:


> Agree 100%.  This is the most asinine rule of all time.  So the theory is that this makes the players get acclimated to the national team rules or FIFA rules or whatever.  WRONG.  A player is either ready to play a full 90 or not.  Maybe they're only physically fit to play 25, 45, or 60.  There is no strategy involved in this.
> 
> The strategy or acclimation is for the COACH to get used to figuring out his or her lineup according to the limitation of his or her roster.  If this is truly for development, it's for the development of their soccer skills!  At this point of their development, who gives a rats ass about how many times you go in and out of the lineup.  Again, any strategy with limited substitution rules are for the coaches not the players.
> 
> And to MarkM's point, he's right, this wouldn't be an issue if rosters were kept to 15-16 players.  With limited substitution, and rosters of 20+, it may be driving players out of DA to get more minutes elsewhere.  But isn't TRAINING the most important point of DA?  _So if training is the most important aspect, have more flexible substitution rules so more players get more play time and stick with DA.  Then you have the type of roster to get the most out of your training, which is most important for development at this point in their journeys._


Let me start by saying this forum is far superior to ours in NTX ... Much more relevant, beneficial, _adult_ interaction -- Good stuff!

That being said, I agree with Simi and MarkM regarding their takes on the effect the DA sub rule has on the game.  And I'm assuming by you implying that training is the most important part of DA, that you (quite rightly) believe that the majority of a young player's growth will come from more frequent, high level training sessions with like minded/skilled players, which is provided by DA.  If so, I'm struggling to understand how an individual player's match time (whether it be a lot or a little) should have anything to do with that player getting more or less out of their training.

Also ... on another note ... The Central-Frontier Division has DA this year for U13s.  While they do play on a full sized field, there aren't following the DA substitution rule, nor are those players restricted from participating in outside activities.  Maybe CAS will follow suit next year?


----------



## Surfref

The crazy thing about statistics is that they can be fairly easily manipulated to show a desired outcome.  The original statistics are flawed.  You cannot compare three unlike groups and get reliable data.  You compared groups of 14, 38, and 17.  The data was not normalized thus causing incorrect correlations that favored your point of view.


----------



## jose

Chris Knight said:


> Let me start by saying this forum is far superior to ours in NTX ... Much more relevant, beneficial, _adult_ interaction -- Good stuff!
> 
> 
> Stick around a while you might change your mind about the adult interaction part


----------



## Lambchop

Justafan said:


> Agree 100%.  This is the most asinine rule of all time.  So the theory is that this makes the players get acclimated to the national team rules or FIFA rules or whatever.  WRONG.  A player is either ready to play a full 90 or not.  Maybe they're only physically fit to play 25, 45, or 60.  There is no strategy involved in this.
> 
> The strategy or acclimation is for the COACH to get used to figuring out his or her lineup according to the limitation of his or her roster.  If this is truly for development, it's for the development of their soccer skills!  At this point of their development, who gives a rats ass about how many times you go in and out of the lineup.  Again, any strategy with limited substitution rules are for the coaches not the players.
> 
> And to MarkM's point, he's right, this wouldn't be an issue if rosters were kept to 15-16 players.  With limited substitution, and rosters of 20+, it may be driving players out of DA to get more minutes elsewhere.  But isn't TRAINING the most important point of DA?  So if training is the most important aspect, have more flexible substitution rules so more players get more play time and stick with DA.  Then you have the type of roster to get the most out of your training, which is most important for development at this point in their journeys.


Some DA clubs have monitors on players to see how much they are running.  Remember some positions require more running than other positions.  Monitor, then let's compare positions and the amount of running and type of running (sprints vs distance)   to see who is actually "fit" to play 40, 60 or 90 minutes.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Surfref said:


> The crazy thing about statistics is that they can be fairly easily manipulated to show a desired outcome.  The original statistics are flawed.  You cannot compare three unlike groups and get reliable data.  You compared groups of 14, 38, and 17.  The data was not normalized thus causing incorrect correlations that favored your point of view.


I have heard from a few families whose daughters play DA that stats are often wrong. Such as minutes of playing time to goals scored and credited to other players.


----------



## LadiesMan217

LASTMAN14 said:


> I have heard from a few families whose daughters play DA that stats are often wrong. Such as minutes of playing time to goals scored and credited to other players.


Haven't seen play-time stats incorrect but my DD has 3 goals that are credited to other players  . I know those players are happy to have a goal or two this season.


----------



## Josep

Here’s the other thing in this.  There were ECNL players that moved to DA clubs that weren’t ECNL clubs. 

Lots of kids moving around that have varying roadmaps to where they’ve landed.  You can’t just say Beach or Pats or Galaxy are worse because they weren’t ECNL.  My guess is, they have several former ECNL players on their roster.  

Also DA teams with ECNL may have taken players that weren’t ECNL the prior season.


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## SocalPapa

Surfref said:


> The crazy thing about statistics is that they can be fairly easily manipulated to show a desired outcome.  The original statistics are flawed.  You cannot compare three unlike groups and get reliable data.  You compared groups of 14, 38, and 17.  The data was not normalized thus causing incorrect correlations that favored your point of view.


Normalizing the goal differential figure (i.e., scaling it in a range from -1 to 1) produced the following avg. goal differential results:

* Dual vs DA Only* +0.52
*Dual vs Left ECNL *+0.54
*
DA Only vs Dual* (0.52)
*DA Only vs Left ECNL* (0.21)

* Left ECNL vs Dual *(0.54)
*Left ECNL vs DA Only *+0.21

I'm not sure I understand why normalization improves the analysis though, as goal differential is measured based on the same scale for each group.

In any event, I didn't set out to manipulate anything and I'm happy to compare the results for the various clubs in any way you think is fair.  Just let me know what you'd like to see.


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## eastbaysoccer

So if GDA soccer is about development, why keep ridiculous stats like games started, played, goals scored?   Why have a playoff or even keep score?


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## LadiesMan217

eastbaysoccer said:


> So if GDA soccer is about development, why keep ridiculous stats like games started, played, goals scored?   Why have a playoff or even keep score?


Can you people that keep saying stats and development can't coexist please STFU. It is getting old. Thank you.


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## Josep

You mean Ronaldo and Messi weren’t developing while trading off awards and titles?


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## espola

LadiesMan217 said:


> Can you people that keep saying stats and development can't coexist please STFU. It is getting old. Thank you.


WLT stats are not necessarily measures of development.


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## Kicker4Life

eastbaysoccer said:


> So if GDA soccer is about development, why keep ridiculous stats like games started, played, goals scored?   Why have a playoff or even keep score?


Hell, why even play the game?


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## espola

Kicker4Life said:


> Hell, why even play the game?


In order for the coaches and admins to evaluate the development of skill, teamwork, and movement off the ball.  However, I haven't seen those stats anywhere.


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## JoeBieber

espola said:


> In order for the coaches and admins to evaluate the development of skill, teamwork, and movement off the ball.  However, I haven't seen those stats anywhere.


And teams that do those things at a higher level tend to win games.


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## espola

JoeBieber said:


> And teams that do those things at a higher level tend to win games.


Teams who improve those things from week to week tend to have been practicing
 good development.


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## INFAMEE

"Nothing will change - it is all about money and wins to keep the paying parents coming... No need to spend your time doing what you did - all it does is continue to foster and fuel the problem."

Bullseye!


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## jose

Winning is developing. There are not any colleges that want kids that are okay with losing. Those coaches lose plush jobs if it is important to the alumni.  The developing of skills and schemes is during the week at practice. You have to test what you learned. Games are probably the best teacher. Mistakes are made and sometimes they are critical mistakes and that is a great tool. If every game goes perfectly then where do you grow? "If winning wasn't important then why are there scoreboards"?  <---Vince Lombardi


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## espola

jose said:


> Winning is developing. There are not any colleges that want kids that are okay with losing. Those coaches lose plush jobs if it is important to the alumni.  The developing of skills and schemes is during the week at practice. You have to test what you learned. Games are probably the best teacher. Mistakes are made and sometimes they are critical mistakes and that is a great tool. If every game goes perfectly then where do you grow? "If winning wasn't important then why are there scoreboards"?  <---Vince Lombardi


At the Lombardi level, all that counts is winning.  At lower levels that profess to prioritize an amorphous thing called "development" in order to provide a stream of excellent players for Lombardi _et fils_, winning is only a shallow measure of that purpose.


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## jose

espola said:


> At the Lombardi level, all that counts is winning.  At lower levels that profess to prioritize an amorphous thing called "development" in order to provide a stream of excellent players for Lombardi _et fils_, winning is only a shallow measure of that purpose.


respectfully disagree. Learning how to win means scratching and clawing your way even when you are overmatched. The will to win is what coaches look for. At least if I were a college coach with a cushy job (in comparison to other) that what i would be watching for.  If you are DA age hopefully you got your development (skills/ general to good idea) of how to play. If you dont have those at this age you probably won't ever have them unless you are a freaky athlete.  Just my opinion.


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## espola

jose said:


> respectfully disagree. Learning how to win means scratching and clawing your way even when you are overmatched. The will to win is what coaches look for. At least if I were a college coach with a cushy job (in comparison to other) that what i would be watching for.  If you are DA age hopefully you got your development (skills/ general to good idea) of how to play. If you dont have those at this age you probably won't ever have them unless you are a freaky athlete.  Just my opinion.


It seems that your opinion would eliminate the need for DA altogether.  Just look for players on the winningest youth teams.


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## jose

espola said:


> It seems that your opinion would eliminate the need for DA altogether.  Just look for players on the winningest youth teams.


No that is not what im saying. If US soccer is trying to teach what they want their soccer players to be then the DA is their pipeline. They want the hungriest kids. They want talented kids. They will filter out until they get the type player they want. Look at DA teams now. Coaches will and are not inviting kids back. Some teams only resigning as few as 2 players and recruiting the rest. Developing doesn't mean taking on a project and trying to make someone that is a tier 2 player into a tier 1 player. At least I don't believe that is what the DA is trying to do.   Now if you are a college coach you will look at the winningest teams. Most recruiters cant be bothered with watching pool play. They watch the  clubs that are consistently playing in the last  games because they probably have the most talent. They look at the heavy hitters surf, Blues, West Coast, Slammers etc.   If a kid is talented they are playing at one of those.  But there is always the exceptions.


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## espola

jose said:


> No that is not what im saying. If US soccer is trying to teach what they want their soccer players to be then the DA is their pipeline. They want the hungriest kids. They want talented kids. They will filter out until they get the type player they want. Look at DA teams now. Coaches will and are not inviting kids back. Some teams only resigning as few as 2 players and recruiting the rest. Developing doesn't mean taking on a project and trying to make someone that is a tier 2 player into a tier 1 player. At least I don't believe that is what the DA is trying to do.   Now if you are a college coach you will look at the winningest teams. Most recruiters cant be bothered with watching pool play. They watch the  clubs that are consistently playing in the last  games because they probably have the most talent. They look at the heavy hitters surf, Blues, West Coast, Slammers etc.   If a kid is talented they are playing at one of those.  But there is always the exceptions.


What color was the koolaid they gave you?


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## jose

espola said:


> What color was the koolaid they gave you?


tell me where im wrong


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## espola

jose said:


> tell me where im wrong


On the men's side of DA, the program was instituted with a 10-year plan to raise American player level to the prevailing international standard.  Now that some DA players have started to be integrated into the national team level, we can see the results - failed to qualify for WC for the first time in 30 years.


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## jose

espola said:


> On the men's side of DA, the program was instituted with a 10-year plan to raise American player level to the prevailing international standard.  Now that some DA players have started to be integrated into the national team level, we can see the results - failed to qualify for WC for the first time in 30 years.


So what does that have to do with anything i said?  I really don't care about the mens side. My boys don't play soccer. My girls do. Women's team seems to be doing fine. If people smarter than either you or me want to implement a plan then great. And since you don't have a plan or a system ill go with the pros. That road is to the next level is always paved with nay sayers........ And no i don't think my DDs are going to play at that level.


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## espola

jose said:


> So what does that have to do with anything i said?  I really don't care about the mens side. My boys don't play soccer. My girls do. Women's team seems to be doing fine. If people smarter than either you or me want to implement a plan then great. And since you don't have a plan or a system ill go with the pros. That road is to the next level is always paved with nay sayers........ And no i don't think my DDs are going to play at that level.


The women's side is doing fine with its disorganized program, because no one else has figured out how to do it better (but watch out for Japan and China).  However, we need more than slogans on the men's side.


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## Lambchop

espola said:


> The women's side is doing fine with its disorganized program, because no one else has figured out how to do it better (but watch out for Japan and China).  However, we need more than slogans on the men's side.


Well, China and Japan are training 6 days a week for top teams and 5 days a week for club teams.  China also now has mandatory instruction in soccer for all grades plus they are establishing special schools just for soccer training like they do for many sports.  I doubt parents in this country would ever go for that, they already freak out that the older girls that are in DA train 4 days a week.   Our National teams don't train together year round either.


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## Lambchop

espola said:


> On the men's side of DA, the program was instituted with a 10-year plan to raise American player level to the prevailing international standard.  Now that some DA players have started to be integrated into the national team level, we can see the results - failed to qualify for WC for the first time in 30 years.


Over simplified comment.


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## espola

Lambchop said:


> Over simplified comment.


But still the truth.


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## espola

Lambchop said:


> Well, China and Japan are training 6 days a week for top teams and 5 days a week for club teams.  China also now has mandatory instruction in soccer for all grades plus they are establishing special schools just for soccer training like they do for many sports.  I doubt parents in this country would ever go for that, they already freak out that the older girls that are in DA train 4 days a week.   Our National teams don't train together year round either.


Back  in the old days of my children's youth, what was seen as the ultimate recognition was invitation to the national residency camp.  I don't know any  parent who would turn that down.  Do they still do that?


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## JJP

espola said:


> On the men's side of DA, the program was instituted with a 10-year plan to raise American player level to the prevailing international standard.  Now that some DA players have started to be integrated into the national team level, we can see the results - failed to qualify for WC for the first time in 30 years.


C’mon Mr. Oversimplification.  The men’s team has made improvements and DA has improved the level of play.

But you know what, the rest of the world ain’t standing still either.  They all have access to the same DVDs, can watch the same replays on YouTube over their phones, they can pay good pro players to coach their most promising players.

It’s a shame we lost to Costa Rica and Honduras but those teams have gotten better every year and maybe they’re playing hungrier and it’s easier to organize in national teams in smaller countries.


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## espola

JJP said:


> C’mon Mr. Oversimplification.  The men’s team has made improvements and DA has improved the level of play.
> 
> But you know what, the rest of the world ain’t standing still either.  They all have access to the same DVDs, can watch the same replays on YouTube over their phones, they can pay good pro players to coach their most promising players.
> 
> It’s a shame we lost to Costa Rica and Honduras but those teams have gotten better every year and maybe they’re playing hungrier and it’s easier to organize in national teams in smaller countries.


Does that denial make you feel better?  Face the facts - all DA has done so far is raise the cost for most players' families (excluding those who are selected for no-cost teams associated with MLS clubs) while making no difference in the quality of the best players heading for the National Team programs.  The girls' DA program will do no better unless they break away from the established DA program.


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## JJP

espola said:


> Does that denial make you feel better?  Face the facts - all DA has done so far is raise the cost for most players' families (excluding those who are selected for no-cost teams associated with MLS clubs) while making no difference in the quality of the best players heading for the National Team programs.  The girls' DA program will do no better unless they break away from the established DA program.


You’re entitled to your opinion, but I speak as a parent whose son has been involved in 3 DA programs, and am familiar with many more because I know coaches or am good friends with guys whose sons happen to be some of the top players in DA.  The coaching was fantastic, the competition was great, it was incredible.  The coaching made my kid better.  Isn’t that what DA is about?

The downsides were the travel, which was ridiculous IMO, and he had a hard time dealing with the selfish nature of DA players.  The travel and the lack of the ball can grind you down in DA but the cream of the crop should emerge from DA.

You can’t pronounce a death sentence on a program that’s taken a long time and a lot of effort to get going, and has undergone several modifications on the way.  The level of boys youth NT has risen.

I actually believe the girls will benefit more from DA.  The US churns so many girls through its system compared to rest of the world any improvement in technical training for the girls will have a huge impact.


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## espola

JJP said:


> You’re entitled to your opinion, but I speak as a parent whose son has been involved in 3 DA programs, and am familiar with many more because I know coaches or am good friends with guys whose sons happen to be some of the top players in DA.  The coaching was fantastic, the competition was great, it was incredible.  The coaching made my kid better.  Isn’t that what DA is about?
> 
> The downsides were the travel, which was ridiculous IMO, and he had a hard time dealing with the selfish nature of DA players.  The travel and the lack of the ball can grind you down in DA but the cream of the crop should emerge from DA.
> 
> You can’t pronounce a death sentence on a program that’s taken a long time and a lot of effort to get going, and has undergone several modifications on the way.  The level of boys youth NT has risen.
> 
> I actually believe the girls will benefit more from DA.  The US churns so many girls through its system compared to rest of the world any improvement in technical training for the girls will have a huge impact.


3 DA programs?  tell us more.


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## JJP

espola said:


> 3 DA programs?  tell us more.


Why?  Do u have a son going to DA?  If so, PM me and we’ll talk.


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## espola

JJP said:


> Why?  Do u have a son going to DA?  If so, PM me and we’ll talk.


The Tale of Three Clubs would seem to be interesting.  Did you love the DA program so much that you went back for seconds and thirds?


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## JJP

espola said:


> The Tale of Three Clubs would seem to be interesting.  Did you love the DA program so much that you went back for seconds and thirds?


No the first folded, the other two were too far away.  And it’s the kids decision, he wanted to play HS instead of DA this year.


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## espola

JJP said:


> No the first folded, the other two were too far away.  And it’s the kids decision, he wanted to play HS instead of DA this year.


Good decision.


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