# GDA relegation or profit



## SDsun (Sep 3, 2017)

Will U.S. Soccer relegate clubs out of GDA after this season or is profit and politics more important?  After seeing the scores posted across the country and especially in the Southwest Division it is clear some clubs suck.  Be honest with yourself, those teams will not get any better as far a competing against the top quality clubs even if they throw full scholarships at parents.  How many years does U.S. Soccer give them?


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## timbuck (Sep 3, 2017)

Took a glance at some of the u-14 Match Reports.  Seems that some teams only had 12 players see the field while others had 16.


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## Striker17 (Sep 3, 2017)

I think it's a great first post and worthy of discussion! 

I don't think anyone will be relegated because MLS DOESNT EVEN DO IT. It's funny how everyone is so concerned about more DA when they spent so many years being just fine with ECNL and it's exclusivity. So odd huh? I have found the rhetoric is mostly from ECNL clubs and hope it quiets down because it benefits no one at this point. 

Lets be honest instead. If you had delved into Match reports I don't know if you would have posted this. Please take a look at match Reports and tell me what is being valued. 

For example just choose any blow out game. Tell me when the subs happened, goals scored, and minutes played. Do we need to be ahead three plus goals to give people minutes? 

As always I think if you choosing a DA for next year parents have at their finger tips an invaluable tool. Look at the games, who is played, who starts, when subs occur. It speaks volumes about coaches and what they are valuing.

I honestly have no opinion on it either way as I care about total minutes played and fun, learning, etc. I am not in recruiting mode in anyway though so can absolutely see poster point.


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## Striker17 (Sep 3, 2017)

PSS I love the spirit of your post but the only thing that exists in SoCal soccer is in fact politics and profit. Us soccer is our only chance to rip it away from clubs at the local level and their cronyism and talent ID. Yes I would take US SOCCER politics over club ones.


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## espola (Sep 3, 2017)

Winning is not what is important.


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## Striker17 (Sep 3, 2017)

espola said:


> Winning is not what is important.


That's obvious but it's a fine line between putting teams against one another when it's blowouts. That's why the match reports are so good and shedding some much insight into who is doing what.
Winning is important.

Being on a team that wins when you play 20 minutes is not good.
Being on a team that doesn't sub not good. 
I could go on and on but that's not a popular insight. We judge teams based on points and wins. 

Parents don't want to hear that some of these teams are based off on four players and that the other 12 players are just like those "bad DA teams" including their previous Autumn or Summer or Boston.

We need to encourage dialogue and education. People need to look at march reports and watch. I promise you if you do you may change your tune about a "bad DA team" when you see what the coaches are doing with the girls. 

Finally because my words get misconstrued I want to make it clear this takes nothing away from the talented gals out there and I wish them a healthy and great season


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## espola (Sep 3, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> That's obvious but it's a fine line between putting teams against one another when it's blowouts. That's why the match reports are so good and shedding some much insight into who is doing what.
> Winning is important.
> Being on a team that wins when you play 20 minutes also not good.
> I could go on and on but that's not a popular insight. We judge teams based on points and wins.
> ...


Isn't the "D" supposed to mean "development"?


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## Striker17 (Sep 3, 2017)

In theory but you know better than that. 
Just look at match reports


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## MWN (Sep 3, 2017)

SDsun said:


> Will U.S. Soccer relegate clubs out of GDA after this season or is profit and politics more important?  After seeing the scores posted across the country and especially in the Southwest Division it is clear some clubs suck.  Be honest with yourself, those teams will not get any better as far a competing against the top quality clubs even if they throw full scholarships at parents.  How many years does U.S. Soccer give them?


Here are some keywords in your post that are redflags: "clubs" "scores" "clubs suck" "teams" "top quality clubs" "them."

Try to take a step back and understand the purpose of the Girls DA.  US Soccer wants a consistent youth development program that is funded on the backs of entities other than US Soccer.  It mandates that the club participants enable it to monitor the progress of the various "girls" in the program.  Each girl's progress is reported to US Soccer throughout their stay.  US Soccer doesn't care about scores.  It doesn't care how well a team does or doesn't do during the season.  It only cares that clubs in the program are developing soccer *players*.  A weak team with 3 potential National players is fantastic, a strong team with no National players is not good.  Its all about the *players*.  It is for this reason that the DA requires every DA player to start a minimum of 25% of regular games.

When US Soccer looks at a club, it doesn't focus on "wins and loses," the Development Academy Key Performance Categories for clubs are:

    1. Player Development Effectiveness
    2. Staff Leadership, Structure and Qualifications
    3. Style of Play and Philosophy
    4. Training Environment and Personal Development
    5. Facilities and Infrastructure
    6. Respect
    7. Resources


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## Striker17 (Sep 3, 2017)

Thank you for the insight. So helpful. Why do they have playoffs though? Is that really just a way to hopefully concentrate the talent?


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## MWN (Sep 3, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> Thank you for the insight. So helpful. Why do they have playoffs though? Is that really just a way to hopefully concentrate the talent?


Playoff and showcases are an opportunity to aggregate all the teams into 1 place.  The National Team coaches attend these events.  I know 1 DA coach (boys) who relayed a story that at the showcases its not unusual for a National Team coach to tell the team coach that he wants to see Bobby moved from the No. 7 position to No. 4, etc., so the National Team coaches can see how that players does at that position, the same thing can occur at playoffs (but less frequently).  Really, playoffs are for aggregating teams in one place and just the thrill of competition (which is fun).


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## Striker17 (Sep 3, 2017)

I Can't thank you enough for all the information. Thanks for helping us out. 
To be a devils advocate though this thread really was an example of what clubs are selling us. They say things like we should not be in C DA "because it's a bad team", or they say X DA "will lose all the time". 
It's been a bad couple of months for trash talking and it's not parent driven. 
What is your take on that?


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## SDsun (Sep 3, 2017)

The question still stands regardless of U.S. Soccer's mantra of development, when should the relegate a club?  Will it forever be a closed MLS type system? You are kidding yourself if you think U.S. Soccer will unilaterally look within all GDA clubs on player selection.  They will cherry pick from top clubs to fill national team spots 99 out of 100 times.   We all know losses count.


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## Nutmeg (Sep 3, 2017)

MWN said:


> Here are some keywords in your post that are redflags: "clubs" "scores" "clubs suck" "teams" "top quality clubs" "them."
> 
> Try to take a step back and understand the purpose of the Girls DA.  US Soccer wants a consistent youth development program that is funded on the backs of entities other than US Soccer.  It mandates that the club participants enable it to monitor the progress of the various "girls" in the program.  Each girl's progress is reported to US Soccer throughout their stay.  US Soccer doesn't care about scores.  It doesn't care how well a team does or doesn't do during the season.  It only cares that clubs in the program are developing soccer *players*.  A weak team with 3 potential National players is fantastic, a strong team with no National players is not good.  Its all about the *players*.  It is for this reason that the DA requires every DA player to start a minimum of 25% of regular games.
> 
> ...


You sound like a club DOC in a meeting trying to recruit a player to their DA team.


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## Striker17 (Sep 3, 2017)

SDsun said:


> The question still stands regardless of U.S. Soccer's mantra of development, when should the relegate a club?  Will it forever be a closed MLS type system? You are kidding yourself if you think U.S. Soccer will unilaterally look within all GDA clubs on player selection.  They will cherry pick from top clubs to fill national team spots 99 out of 100 times.   We all know losses count.


You do seem focused on clubs.


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## Nutmeg (Sep 3, 2017)

What always strikes me as odd on this forum is the creepy pro club pro USSDA and anti player rhetoric. It's like creepy coaches and club DOC and their henchmen lurk on here to spew their propaganda. That's fine just make your own category. Call it creepy ass socal coaches with nothing better to do. The only thing that matters is your player nothing else. So take a good hard look at the scores this week and ask your self a question do you as a paying parent believe that USSDA scouts will look at the center back of a team that lost 10-1 or 6-0 and is losing a majority of their games. Or will they look real hard at the teams on the other side of the result. The sell is everyone has a chance for their daughter to be scouted. While that's kinda true. Its also a low down lie. The clubs need you to be sheep. They need to sell the narrative that all is equal. When is reality is not equal. Their is a reason why a team loses by 4,5 or 6 goals. It's because they are not as good right now  as the other team. No one at US soccer says yeah they lost by 9 goals but their training sessions are fantastic so let's select the losing teams players. US Soccer is NOT a wait and see enterprise they are not a developer of talent. They are simply a we take and select the best player RIGHT NOW.


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## Striker17 (Sep 3, 2017)

There are always outliers 
The best player I know was local club forever and after she signed went to bigs. I am not a fan of the outlier stories because I don't want to paint false hope but it goes two ways. 
A team that relies on 2-3 players while the rest ride on coat tails isn't much better. You also won't get looks on a team where your DD doesn't play. You also won't get noticed on a team that is showcasing certain players.
It goes both ways


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## Nutmeg (Sep 3, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> There are always outliers
> The best player I know was local club forever and after she signed went to bigs. I am not a fan of the outlier stories because I don't want to paint false hope but it goes two ways.
> A team that relies on 2-3 players while the rest ride on coat tails isn't much better. You also won't get looks on a team where your DD doesn't play. You also won't get noticed on a team that is showcasing certain players.
> It goes both ways


My point is that the talking points of DA while exciting to many are just that talk. Is DA really giving the majority of players better options or fewer ones. Very few nationally will make a national training camp. Yet the narrative that many parents hear and believe is that their DD has a better chance by simply being on DA. When in reality maybe having more options, high school, ecnl, ODP, ID2 etc was better. Outliers exist sure but they also exist outside of DA. Good teams exist outside of DA. The US soccer/club hype machine is in full steam ahead mode.


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## Mystery Train (Sep 3, 2017)

I was told on good authority that at least one DA club director was given a timeframe of two years to make his DA teams competitive or have the designation pulled.  Now I don't know how  "competitive"  is defined by them, but it makes sense that they would try to protect their league by eliminating clubs that struggle.  It's a quandary though because they are trying to elevate "development" but the member clubs are still concerned about all the things (wins, marketing, money) that the existing system values.  The success or failure of the DA will only be evident over a span of years.  For this season, it's going to be a dog's breakfast, particularly in the older levels where more players may have stayed in the ECNL rather than make a change late in the recruitment process.  If the DA teams struggle will there be any patience to stick it out? Or will parents panic and jump back to ECNL?  Unless all the DA teams are fully funded, it's just an ECNL alternative with different rules rather than a truly new system.


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## Justafan (Sep 3, 2017)

MWN said:


> US Soccer doesn't care about scores.  It doesn't care how well a team does or doesn't do during the season.


But WE do.  We are SoCal, we can't help ourselves.  We are the "scorpion" in MAP's joke.  I bet that if you offered the top 50 DA players in each age group a full scholarship to their college of choice but they had to play on a bronze level team (with great coaching), you'd find few takers.


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## MWN (Sep 3, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> I Can't thank you enough for all the information. Thanks for helping us out.
> To be a devils advocate though this thread really was an example of what clubs are selling us. They say things like we should not be in C DA "because it's a bad team", or they say X DA "will lose all the time".
> It's been a bad couple of months for trash talking and it's not parent driven.
> What is your take on that?


I think you know what I'm going to say, but I'll say it anyway.  On the surface, I would hope all parents, whether DA or Flight 3/Bronze would have the intelligence to see through the sales B.S., but with your examples: "...we should not be in C DA "because it's a bad team", or they say X DA "will lose all the time"."  The proper response should be "Um, OK, duly noted, but let's talk about how your club is better equipped to develop my player?"  You can then use the same 7 "Key Development" criteria that US Soccer uses and talk to the DOC or Coach about:

1. Player Development Effectiveness
2. Staff Leadership, Structure and Qualifications
3. Style of Play and Philosophy
4. Training Environment and Personal Development
5. Facilities and Infrastructure
6. Respect [for all including other clubs]
7. Resources​
Now, if we take look at the motivation of a parent (v. US Soccer) we can understand that a parent might place value of "wins" versus "losses," and that parent may be making the right move for their kid by picking teams with better players (if that player is a projected starter).  Having a child on a DA team greatly increases the weight of that child's resume when it comes to college scholarship opportunities.  So, from a parent perspective "the better team" may be a better decision, assuming all else is equal.  A projected bench player is likely making a mistake, however, and should choose a DA team that is not as strong because that player has a better chance of standing out and being seen on a poor squad v. a good squad.   Just like we have seen with the girls ECNL, just being on an ECNL team is also benefit and opens doors.

In other words, parental motivations (college) are often times at odds with US Soccer's motivations (finding National Team players).  For this reason, US Soccer has shaped the DA into a pyramid with many U12 teams (base of the pyramid) to only a few U18 teams (top of the pyramid).  The better players will filter up and the clubs with teams at the top of the pyramid will be those clubs the fully fund their DA programs.  At this time, its looking like the MLS teams will be the only ones at the top very shortly on the boys side, and the jury is still out on the Girls side.

@SDsun, I think on the girls side, the National Team will continue to pull players from a more diverse cross-section (ECNL, ODP, National Cup caliber teams and eventually the college ranks) primarily because the Girls DA will take many years to prove itself out.  The no HS rule has many top level players that want to play HS staying with ECNL teams.  Because we are not close (and may never be there) with fully funded residential programs with girls, the National Team ranks will continue to have more diversity than the boys side.  On the boys side the younger national teams are now very heavily weighted with Boys DA players (e.g. Boys U16 National Team - https://www.ussoccer.com/us-under16-boys-national-team/roster#tab-1 has 2 players not from a DA Club (kid from Chivas USA and Santa Barbara SC)), so I generally agree with you as it relates to the girls at this time, but disagree to the extent that your comment is inconsistent with the goals of the Girls DA program and where it hopes to be 10 years from now.

@Nutmeg, I'll take that as a compliment, but alas I only hold an E-License and I'm not qualified to be a DOC at a DA (I think you need an A or B) and I believe coaches need better than a D (but it could be a C) ... I also do not coach (I'm a Ref).   With regard to your other comment (... hard earned money), the ultimate goal of the DA is fully funded programs that are built with MLS and large club dollars so parents are paying hard earned money and good players are not priced out of the program.  Some of the boys programs have gotten there, but the girls programs are a long way off.  Its the same consideration as being a parent of an ECNL player ... expensive.  As far as what US Soccer (will do) with the Girls DA, we'll just agree to disagree.  If I was a parent of a young lady good enough to entertain the DA or ECNL teams, my focus would be on college opportunities/scholarships and not the National Team.


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## Nutmeg (Sep 3, 2017)

MWN said:


> I think you know what I'm going to say, but I'll say it anyway.  On the surface, I would hope all parents, whether DA or Flight 3/Bronze would have the intelligence to see through the sales B.S., but with your examples: "...we should not be in C DA "because it's a bad team", or they say X DA "will lose all the time"."  The proper response should be "Um, OK, duly noted, but let's talk about how your club is better equipped to develop my player?"  You can then use the same 7 "Key Development" criteria that US Soccer uses and talk to the DOC or Coach about:
> 
> 1. Player Development Effectiveness
> 2. Staff Leadership, Structure and Qualifications
> ...


Cool we agree on some things disagree on others. Mostly agree on focusing on your DD and on College opportunities rather than chasing the carrot of USSDA national team etc.


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## espola (Sep 3, 2017)

Justafan said:


> But WE do.  We are SoCal, we can't help ourselves.  We are the "scorpion" in MAP's joke.  I bet that if you offered the top 50 DA players in each age group a full scholarship to their college of choice but they had to play on a bronze level team (with great coaching), you'd find few takers.


I'll take that bet.


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## Striker17 (Sep 3, 2017)

Nutmeg said:


> My point is that the talking points of DA while exciting to many are just that talk. Is DA really giving the majority of players better options or fewer ones. Very few nationally will make a national training camp. Yet the narrative that many parents hear and believe is that their DD has a better chance by simply being on DA. When in reality maybe having more options, high school, ecnl, ODP, ID2 etc was better. Outliers exist sure but they also exist outside of DA. Good teams exist outside of DA. The US soccer/club hype machine is in full steam ahead mode.


I never doubted that.
I am simply pointing out that when you speak about relegation etc it's also funny that parents believe no minutes or few minutes on a great DA team matter- because they don't. Reserve playing on DA not good.


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## El Clasico (Sep 3, 2017)

Mystery Train said:


> I was told on good authority that at least one DA club director was given a timeframe of two years to make his DA teams competitive or have the designation pulled.  Now I don't know how  "competitive"  is defined by them, but it makes sense that they would try to protect their league by eliminating clubs that struggle.  It's a quandary though because they are trying to elevate "development" but the member clubs are still concerned about all the things (wins, marketing, money) that the existing system values.  The success or failure of the DA will only be evident over a span of years.  For this season, it's going to be a dog's breakfast, particularly in the older levels where more players may have stayed in the ECNL rather than make a change late in the recruitment process.  If the DA teams struggle will there be any patience to stick it out? Or will parents panic and jump back to ECNL?  Unless all the DA teams are fully funded, it's just an ECNL alternative with different rules rather than a truly new system.


I am continuously fascinated by these threads.  There seems to be no shortage of people that live and breath every word dripping from the mouths of the Clubs and US Soccer.  I have it on good authority?? 2 years?  You mean like do on the boys side?  Stick it out or jump ship??  Why would a parent stick anything out?  This roller coaster ride isn't for the benefit of my children so why wouldn't I "jump ship" if it isn't working? My child has only a limited time before they move on to their next stage in life.  US Soccer hasn't figured out anything on the boys side in their first 10 years, why would I serve my child up as their guinea pig.  I appreciate that there are plenty of parents that wouldn't bat an eye at sacrificing their child for the long term benefit of someone else's goals but my priority is my children and my children only!!  My children want to win a few medals along the way, I am all for it.  Again, I could give a rat's a** about US Soccer and their goals and they could care less about mine so we work well together. Having dealt with it on the boys side, it reminds me of the old saying...Who you going to believe?  US Soccer?  A Club DOC? A Club Coach who would have trouble finding a job if he couldn't juggle a soccer ball?  Or your lying eyes?


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## Nutmeg (Sep 3, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> I never doubted that.
> I am simply pointing out that when you speak about relegation etc it's also funny that parents believe no minutes or few minutes on a great DA team matter- because they don't. Reserve playing on DA not good.


If USSDA really wanted a true academy it would start at U6-U12, Their would be 6 DA teams in Socal and the system of how players were evaluated or selected to play on those teams would be different. At U14 give me a break. Players are who they are at 14.  If my DA team is losing by more than 3 goals a game all year. That means the coach has players that he needs to spend time on learning skills and tactics that should have been developed long ago. This is the US not France or Spain. There's no 5'3 crafty center mids in our US system. Why? Because the big fast goal scoring ball over the top or played out wide to the fast playing girl is the metric.  Right now it's the system. So rather than try to fit your DD into that maybe find the best place for your DD. Parents buying into the DA and club marketing BS is at times troubling. Clubs don't develope they are a for profit enterprise. Clubs provide a place for your DD to play soccer. DA is not free, it's not a true academy. DA at its core is a marketing enterprise to feed the US Soccer machine. Whether your DD goes to UCLA or UCSB matters little to them. Whether your DD starts or transfers after her first year matters little, whether your DD received athletic $ or walked on matters little.


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## Mystery Train (Sep 3, 2017)

El Clasico said:


> I am continuously fascinated by these threads.  There seems to be no shortage of people that live and breath every word dripping from the mouths of the Clubs and US Soccer.  I have it on good authority?? 2 years?  You mean like do on the boys side?  Stick it out or jump ship??  Why would a parent stick anything out?  This roller coaster ride isn't for the benefit of my children so why wouldn't I "jump ship" if it isn't working? My child has only a limited time before they move on to their next stage in life.  US Soccer hasn't figured out anything on the boys side in their first 10 years, why would I serve my child up as their guinea pig.  I appreciate that there are plenty of parents that wouldn't bat an eye at sacrificing their child for the long term benefit of someone else's goals but my priority is my children and my children only!!  My children want to win a few medals along the way, I am all for it.  Again, I could give a rat's a** about US Soccer and their goals and they could care less about mine so we work well together. Having dealt with it on the boys side, it reminds me of the old saying...Who you going to believe?  US Soccer?  A Club DOC? A Club Coach who would have trouble finding a job if he couldn't juggle a soccer ball?  Or your lying eyes?


If you think I am living and dying by any of this, you're confusing me with someone else.  My kid isn't DA or ECNL, but I am completely intrigued by the forces at play here thus my comments.


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## LadiesMan217 (Sep 3, 2017)

SDsun said:


> Will U.S. Soccer relegate clubs out of GDA after this season or is profit and politics more important?  After seeing the scores posted across the country and especially in the Southwest Division it is clear some clubs suck.  Be honest with yourself, those teams will not get any better as far a competing against the top quality clubs even if they throw full scholarships at parents.  How many years does U.S. Soccer give them?


I would more be looking forward to some clubs getting relegated because they do not train the players. I know a few clubs and coaches are now being exposed for what they are since they are under observation. My kid has played on what many consider the #1 club and I can tell you they did little to nothing to develop her. Playing at the highest level against the best girls is how she developed and I know that is not enough. I have seen the Pateadores and LA Galaxy team training this year and can tell you even though those teams might only finish mid-pack this year they will come out on top from a development perspective. The Slammers, Blues, and West Coast girls will continue to get the same - scrimmage around, take a few shots on goals, do some basic drills - they will be more physically fit though. Blues won't be on top because their best girls are not in DA. Parents and players will continue to buy into the crap. My kid has played in those environments so I know exactly what is going on. Take the best players and put them under some of the coaches/teams that will be mid pack this year and US Soccer WILL benefit. When the season is over nothing will have changed except some girls will actually know the game - they will be coming from non-ECNL clubs.


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## LadiesMan217 (Sep 3, 2017)

LadiesMan217 said:


> I would more be looking forward to some clubs getting relegated because they do not train the players. I know a few clubs and coaches are now being exposed for what they are since they are under observation. My kid has played on what many consider the #1 club and I can tell you they did little to nothing to develop her. Playing at the highest level against the best girls is how she developed and I know that is not enough. I have seen the Pateadores and LA Galaxy team training this year and can tell you even though those teams might only finish mid-pack this year they will come out on top from a development perspective. The Slammers, Blues, and West Coast girls will continue to get the same - scrimmage around, take a few shots on goals, do some basic drills - they will be more physically fit though. Blues won't be on top because their best girls are not in DA. Parents and players will continue to buy into the crap. My kid has played in those environments so I know exactly what is going on. Take the best players and put them under some of the coaches/teams that will be mid pack this year and US Soccer WILL benefit. When the season is over nothing will have changed except some girls will actually know the game - they will be coming from non-ECNL clubs.


Lambchop - what do you disagree with?


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## chargerfan (Sep 3, 2017)

I took @Striker17 's suggestion, and looked at some match reports. I can't say I am surprised that there are girls getting 10-20 minutes per game. These are the coaches that we already knew cared more about winning than development. If I were looking for my dd to join a DA team, I would be looking at these to see which coaches are at least attempting to give somewhat equal play time. Shame on any coach that is giving girls 15 minutes of play time when you are up by 4-5 goals.


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## El Clasico (Sep 3, 2017)

LadiesMan217 said:


> Lambchop - what do you disagree with?


He has no idea what he is disagreeing with.  I would bet money he is either illiterate or a 5 year old that messes around with daddy's computer and found some emoji's to play with.  He disagrees with both sides of every argument or marks them all dumb. I guess he could be a coach.


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## Monkey (Sep 4, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> I took @Striker17 's suggestion, and looked at some match reports. I can't say I am surprised that there are girls getting 10-20 minutes per game. These are the coaches that we already knew cared more about winning than development. If I were looking for my dd to join a DA team, I would be looking at these to see which coaches are at least attempting to give somewhat equal play time. Shame on any coach that is giving girls 15 minutes of play time when you are up by 4-5 goals.


The match reports are great.  It is a great tool to vet coaches and see who the crazy parents are that drive their kid an hour+ to practice x 4 a week to ride the pine.  Practice with high caliber kids is great but if you never great in the game you will never advance.  It would be better for these pine riders to play with the ECNL team in their club, one of the few DPL teams that might be good or a top Flight 1 club for more playing time.


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## MakeAPlay (Sep 5, 2017)

LadiesMan217 said:


> I would more be looking forward to some clubs getting relegated because they do not train the players. I know a few clubs and coaches are now being exposed for what they are since they are under observation. My kid has played on what many consider the #1 club and I can tell you they did little to nothing to develop her. Playing at the highest level against the best girls is how she developed and I know that is not enough. I have seen the Pateadores and LA Galaxy team training this year and can tell you even though those teams might only finish mid-pack this year they will come out on top from a development perspective. The Slammers, Blues, and West Coast girls will continue to get the same - scrimmage around, take a few shots on goals, do some basic drills - they will be more physically fit though. Blues won't be on top because their best girls are not in DA. Parents and players will continue to buy into the crap. My kid has played in those environments so I know exactly what is going on. Take the best players and put them under some of the coaches/teams that will be mid pack this year and US Soccer WILL benefit. When the season is over nothing will have changed except some girls will actually know the game - they will be coming from non-ECNL clubs.


This man is woke!  Now you are starting to sound like me @LadiesMan217


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## bababooey (Sep 5, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> I took @Striker17 's suggestion, and looked at some match reports. I can't say I am surprised that there are girls getting 10-20 minutes per game. These are the coaches that we already knew cared more about winning than development. If I were looking for my dd to join a DA team, I would be looking at these to see which coaches are at least attempting to give somewhat equal play time. Shame on any coach that is giving girls 15 minutes of play time when you are up by 4-5 goals.


I agree with you chargerfan, but it has only been one game. I would start drawing some conclusions after half the season is completed. Looking at some of the match reports, I think it is possible a girl played only 15 minutes because she is coming off an injury or maybe she has missed some recent practices, so the coach will give the player(s) that have been at every practice recently a reward of starting and/or playing the bulk of the minutes.


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## bababooey (Sep 5, 2017)

Nutmeg said:


> If USSDA really wanted a true academy it would start at U6-U12, Their would be 6 DA teams in Socal and the system of how players were evaluated or selected to play on those teams would be different. At U14 give me a break. Players are who they are at 14.  If my DA team is losing by more than 3 goals a game all year. That means the coach has players that he needs to spend time on learning skills and tactics that should have been developed long ago. This is the US not France or Spain. There's no 5'3 crafty center mids in our US system. Why? Because the big fast goal scoring ball over the top or played out wide to the fast playing girl is the metric.  Right now it's the system. So rather than try to fit your DD into that maybe find the best place for your DD. Parents buying into the DA and club marketing BS is at times troubling. Clubs don't develope they are a for profit enterprise. Clubs provide a place for your DD to play soccer. DA is not free, it's not a true academy. DA at its core is a marketing enterprise to feed the US Soccer machine. Whether your DD goes to UCLA or UCSB matters little to them. Whether your DD starts or transfers after her first year matters little, whether your DD received athletic $ or walked on matters little.


Nutmeg, I agree with a lot of what you are saying here. Yes, if the USSDA really cared about world-class players, then we would model our system like those in Europe of South America. I don't think it will happen, but one can hope.

Here is what concerns me about the DA system (boys at this time)......how many world-class players has the USSDA produced to this point? I honestly don't know. You cannot say Pulisic, as he was trained in Europe. I am sure there are some very promising players in the BDA, but if you look at the Gold Cup and the World Cup Qualifiers, which DA players are making an impact on the USMNT?


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## chargerfan (Sep 5, 2017)

bababooey said:


> I agree with you chargerfan, but it has only been one game. I would start drawing some conclusions after half the season is completed. Looking at some of the match reports, I think it is possible a girl played only 15 minutes because she is coming off an injury or maybe she has missed some recent practices, so the coach will give the player(s) that have been at every practice recently a reward of starting and/or playing the bulk of the minutes.


Unfortunately, for some of these clubs, I think it's just business as usual. The girls who barely saw the field last weekend are the ones that barely saw the field last year (on the teams where the coach remained the same, anyways). There were a couple of surprises, and I do think you are right that those could be due to injury.


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## Lambchop (Sep 5, 2017)

Nutmeg said:


> Cool we agree on some things disagree on others. Mostly agree on focusing on your DD and on College opportunities rather than chasing the carrot of USSDA national team etc.


I would venture to say the vast majority of parents of girls playing DA  are not chasing the "National team dream", but rather want to expose their daughter in the most positive atmosphere for college coaches to evaluate and to play in the most competitive environment available. Those who keep posting that the parents are buying into the National team dream ,  really don't know what they are talking about.  Parents are not stupid,  they know training four days a week will be challenging but will also improve play and fitness.  The player who shoots  500 baskets a week will do better than a player shooting fifty baskets a week. The student who reads 500 pages a month will be a better reader than the student who reads 100 pages a month.  So on and so on.  Giving up high school soccer does give up a lot of glory and recognition and is a sacrifice in some ways particularly for a talented player  and frankly a lot of parents want that for their child. Time will tell how all this plays out, but for each girl there is a path.  Whatever their dream is let's all hope that they are able to achieve it without injury or too much adversity.


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## watfly (Sep 5, 2017)

The DA is just another league for the most part.  It is run by the same DOC's  and coaches "that guard the hen house" now.  I would think differently if US Soccer had more skin in the game but they have very little. If they were truly serious about it they would put there money where there mouth is and use some of its alleged $100 million surplus to defray the costs for participation. Its again the parents funding the system and the players making the sacrifices.  It does consolidate some of the talent and makes it easier for USSF to identify players (which it apparently has a poor reputation of doing), but only marginally so than if the DA didn't exist.

Can someone point to the objective results of the boys DA over the last 10 years?  The DA doesn't even identify any goals or objective measures for determining the success of the program.  It identifies benefits but that's different than whether those benefits are creating any tangible results.  Let's not kid ourselves, winning is a factor in the DA.  Players on winning teams are going to get the benefit of the doubt over players on losing teams, its only human nature.

That having been said, we will probably choose to have my son play DA next year.  Not because I have any illusion that it will provide any more benefit than a non-DA flight 1 team but because that is where the best players in the Club will be.  If he chose not to and stayed with the Club he would be playing with kids that aren't at the same level he has been playing with for the past several years since the "top" 24 kids will be playing DA.  DA is not much more than a marketing tool for the clubs that have it...mostly form over substance.


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## espola (Sep 5, 2017)

watfly said:


> The DA is just another league for the most part.  It is run by the same DOC's  and coaches "that guard the hen house" now.  I would think differently if US Soccer had more skin in the game but they have very little. If they were truly serious about it they would put there money where there mouth is and use some of its alleged $100 million surplus to defray the costs for participation. Its again the parents funding the system and the players making the sacrifices.  It does consolidate some of the talent and makes it easier for USSF to identify players (which it apparently has a poor reputation of doing), but only marginally so than if the DA didn't exist.
> 
> Can someone point to the objective results of the boys DA over the last 10 years?  The DA doesn't even identify any goals or objective measures for determining the success of the program.  It identifies benefits but that's different than whether those benefits are creating any tangible results.  Let's not kid ourselves, winning is a factor in the DA.  Players on winning teams are going to get the benefit of the doubt over players on losing teams, its only human nature.
> 
> That having been said, we will probably choose to have my son play DA next year.  Not because I have any illusion that it will provide any more benefit than a non-DA flight 1 team but because that is where the best players in the Club will be.  If he chose not to and stayed with the Club he would be playing with kids that aren't at the same level he has been playing with for the past several years since the "top" 24 kids will be playing DA.  DA is not much more than a marketing tool for the clubs that have it...mostly form over substance.


The question on boys DA results came up in a discussion on BigSoccer realting to college players vs pros --
http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/the-e-nd-volution-of-college-soccer.2066265/page-2#post-35805211


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## Lambchop (Sep 5, 2017)

LadiesMan217 said:


> Lambchop - what do you disagree with?


Some of your statement I agree with but there is more that I disagree with. I disagree with your assumption that the only girls who will understand and know the game of soccer will come from non ECNL DA clubs. You also state two of the clubs will finish mid pack, and you know this how.  Please do tell.   Also, you make it sound as if you have sat and watched every clubs DA practice, 4 times a week from the beginning, or have you walked by and seen some of the practice of some of the clubs.  If you have seen them all, wow you must have a drone.


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## Fact (Sep 5, 2017)

watfly said:


> The DA is just another league for the most part.  It is run by the same DOC's  and coaches "that guard the hen house" now.  I would think differently if US Soccer had more skin in the game but they have very little. If they were truly serious about it they would put there money where there mouth is and use some of its alleged $100 million surplus to defray the costs for participation. Its again the parents funding the system and the players making the sacrifices.  It does consolidate some of the talent and makes it easier for USSF to identify players (which it apparently has a poor reputation of doing), but only marginally so than if the DA didn't exist.
> 
> Can someone point to the objective results of the boys DA over the last 10 years?  The DA doesn't even identify any goals or objective measures for determining the success of the program.  It identifies benefits but that's different than whether those benefits are creating any tangible results.  Let's not kid ourselves, winning is a factor in the DA.  Players on winning teams are going to get the benefit of the doubt over players on losing teams, its only human nature.
> 
> That having been said, we will probably choose to have my son play DA next year.  Not because I have any illusion that it will provide any more benefit than a non-DA flight 1 team but because that is where the best players in the Club will be.  If he chose not to and stayed with the Club he would be playing with kids that aren't at the same level he has been playing with for the past several years since the "top" 24 kids will be playing DA.  DA is not much more than a marketing tool for the clubs that have it...mostly form over substance.


What no one has been able to answer to me is why was a new DA protocol developed for the girls.  Why not use the same system the boys use for identifying teams to give DA status to and identifying players.  Also why was it necessary to invent DPL for girls when the boys have been functioning without it?


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## MWN (Sep 5, 2017)

Fact said:


> What no one has been able to answer to me is why was a new DA protocol developed for the girls.  Why not use the same system the boys use for identifying teams to give DA status to and identifying players.  Also why was it necessary to invent DPL for girls when the boys have been functioning without it?


What do you mean by "new DA protocol?"  My understanding is the girls DA was modeled on the boys, even down to the no HS soccer rule.


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## Fact (Sep 5, 2017)

MWN said:


> What do you mean by "new DA protocol?"  My understanding is the girls DA was modeled on the boys, even down to the no HS soccer rule.


There are differences in the rules but what I was aiming for is the boys DA teams are chosen on merit; the clubs are not given DA teams outright in all divisions.


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## MWN (Sep 5, 2017)

Understood.  We know that US Soccer has a pyramid model in mind with many U12 teams that narrow to fewer U18/19 teams, with the ultimate goal of having the olders in residential programs.   In building the GDA, it appears US Soccer started with a skyscraper and will build out the base.  Because many of the programs that were accepted had solid girls programs from bottom (U14) to top (U18/19) it seems to make good logical sense to add all ages initially and favor clubs that can meet the initial need.  Heck, its hard to have a league with only a few teams, so I can understand a logistical argument being made that the initial round will favor clubs that can supply teams in all age groups ... which appears what happened.


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## Fact (Sep 5, 2017)

That sounds nice in theory but did it really happen that clubs with strong programs were awarded DA?  I am not sure  what happened with Arsenal or Strikers and I believe (although not certain) that Sharks had a much stronger program than Albion.  And a great example is what happened in Northern California.  I never heard of Burlingame yet they were awarded DA and got stomped on in all age groups at Surf Cup while MVLA is not DA.


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## LadiesMan217 (Sep 5, 2017)

Fact said:


> That sounds nice in theory but did it really happen that clubs with strong programs were awarded DA?  I am not sure  what happened with Arsenal or Strikers and I believe (although not certain) that Sharks had a much stronger program than Albion.  And a great example is what happened in Northern California.  I never heard of Burlingame yet they were awarded DA and got stomped on in all age groups at Surf Cup while MVLA is not DA.


Strong programs were awarded DA, maybe not strong teams. I'll say it again, my DD played on what is 'considered' the #1 girls program in country and was taught very little by the coaching staff. Yeah they won lots and lots of games, played in many National Championships, but not one girls on the team could tell you the purpose of different soccer formations, etc. Great recruiters, great Kool-Aid, etc. but not a strong program at all - just a strong team. Sharks had a stronger program than Albion? I am going to say not even close IMO.


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## Fact (Sep 6, 2017)

LadiesMan217 said:


> Strong programs were awarded DA, maybe not strong teams. I'll say it again, my DD played on what is 'considered' the #1 girls program in country and was taught very little by the coaching staff. Yeah they won lots and lots of games, played in many National Championships, but not one girls on the team could tell you the purpose of different soccer formations, etc. Great recruiters, great Kool-Aid, etc. but not a strong program at all - just a strong team. Sharks had a stronger program than Albion? I am going to say not even close IMO.


Albion did not have a strong program on the girls side while I believe Sharks did until last year?  Everyone was always commenting on how they ignored the girls program.  What about Arsenal and Strikers, they were not stronger than Albion or Carlsbad?  And the Burlingame club had neither strong teams nor strong programs.  Not trying to argue, just trying to understand why they did not follow the methodology used for the boys program of awarding DA.


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## espola (Sep 6, 2017)

Fact said:


> Albion did not have a strong program on the girls side while I believe Sharks did until last year?  Everyone was always commenting on how they ignored the girls program.  What about Arsenal and Strikers, they were not stronger than Albion or Carlsbad?  And the Burlingame club had neither strong teams nor strong programs.  Not trying to argue, just trying to understand why they did not follow the methodology used for the boys program of awarding DA.


What was the methodology for awarding boys DA teams?  I watched it in 2007 or 8 from San Diego perspective, where it seemed like the 2 clubs with best political connections got teams, and everyone else was ignored.


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## Gokicksomegrass (Sep 6, 2017)

LadiesMan217 said:


> Strong programs were awarded DA, maybe not strong teams. I'll say it again, my DD played on what is 'considered' the #1 girls program in country and was taught very little by the coaching staff. Yeah they won lots and lots of games, played in many National Championships, but not one girls on the team could tell you the purpose of different soccer formations, etc. Great recruiters, great Kool-Aid, etc. but not a strong program at all - just a strong team. Sharks had a stronger program than Albion? I am going to say not even close IMO.


@LadiesMan217 is emphasizing what many veterans posters who helped their dd make to college ball: your agenda is to focus
on your player's development and help your player get where she needs to be.  If the coach, team, and the club fit your agenda,
awesome. Otherwise, figure stuff out. Folks who keep on emphasizing clubs are coaches, docs, or homers.


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## MWN (Sep 6, 2017)

espola said:


> What was the methodology for awarding boys DA teams?  I watched it in 2007 or 8 from San Diego perspective, where it seemed like the 2 clubs with best political connections got teams, and everyone else was ignored.


From the US Soccer FAQ (http://www.ussoccerda.com/girls-academy-faqs):
*What criteria is be used to select clubs that will be part of the Girls' Development Academy?*
The Academy uses the following criteria when evaluating the application of each club for membership:

Leadership of the club and quality of the coaching staff
Desire to embrace and promote the core values of the program
U.S. Soccer license levels of coaching staff
Infrastructure of the club and the resources currently being invested in development (facilities, scholarships, staff to player ratio, etc.)
History of player production for youth National Teams, the Women's National Team, and professional leagues
Market with player depth, geographic location, proximity to other elite clubs and travel implications
As you can see, the focus is much broader than just "hey, this club has a great girls program."  Rather, it appears US Soccer was looking at a number of broad categories, some objective and others subjective.  Some SoCal clubs probably got bit by the Market factor from just a pure saturation point of view and I'm sure a number were written off due to infrastructure concerns (_I could see Arsenal losing out to the Legends because they both operate in essentially the same market (NorCo area), but the Legends have a very, very, very close relationship with Silverlakes, whereas, Arsenal has Norco College and is a 2nd class citizen at the facility ... where there other factors, I don't know_).  I do know where a club practices is very important to the DA, which requires all DA teams practice at the same facility.  The DA also wants to see classroom facilities, locker rooms, in addition to just fields.  This factor is hard for many clubs and many clubs got a pass on this factor because they had an acceptable plan to fix it.  The license levels of coaching staff probably also threw a few clubs out of the window.  US Soccer wants the DOC to have an A License and the minimum license level for coaches is D, but it prefers B's and C's.

When it comes to the complaint "why not use the same criteria as US Soccer did for the boys," after thinking about it (thanks @Fact for your comments/observations), I don't think that would be wise because we all perceive mistakes have been made with the boys program.  The girls get to evaluate what worked and didn't work over the last 10 years, make changes to the criteria having learned from the boys mistakes and go to market with a different (and hopefully better) plan.  Whether this bears out, only time will tell.


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## El Clasico (Sep 6, 2017)

What worked with the boys program??


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## younothat (Sep 6, 2017)

MWN said:


> From the US Soccer FAQ (http://www.ussoccerda.com/girls-academy-faqs):
> *What criteria is be used to select clubs that will be part of the Girls' Development Academy?*
> The Academy uses the following criteria when evaluating the application of each club for membership:
> 
> ...


sounds good on paper but in reality some would say:

#1 criteria is $$, connections, and politics and everything else comes secondary.

#2 once you're in its like the MOB; made for life.

DA like the rest of  us soccer sorely needs reg/promotion  and open circuits not closed ones and a real pyramid not a false flag.

So far girls DA is no different than the boys academy, nothing I've seen or heard has been different.

I'm a supporter of ussda & da programs but I can see it for what it is.  A small step in the right direction but a long way to go to make things better of all youth soccer players not just the 5%.

If you want to know about scholarships, <5% of the DA players receive them and the avg outlay is only 1500.  You have to be in poverty basically to receive one without assets like a expensive homes, cars, etc

Carry on, still early in a few years maybe things will be different.


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## MWN (Sep 6, 2017)

El Clasico said:


> What worked with the boys program??


What we can say today is about 90% of the Youth USNT players are coming from the DA programs.  It gets harder to track (by looking at current rosters) once we get to the U20+ USNT because the associated teams are colleges and MSL/International teams.  The mens program is still in flux and now there is a very hard push to stratify the DA programs into MLS (residential programs) and Club non-residential, with a few club's trying to crack the residential nut.  The MLS programs will have the pick of the litter because they will be fully funded, whereas the Club programs will be constantly selling and scratching.


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## younothat (Sep 6, 2017)

MWN said:


> What we can say today is about 90% of the Youth USNT players are coming from the DA programs.  It gets harder to track (by looking at current rosters) once we get to the U20+ USNT because the associated teams are colleges and MSL/International teams.  The mens program is still in flux and now there is a very hard push to stratify the DA programs into MLS (residential programs) and Club non-residential, with a few club's trying to crack the residential nut.  The MLS programs will have the pick of the litter because they will be fully funded, whereas the Club programs will be constantly selling and scratching.


Well when 75%+ of the players invited to the training groups/centers are DA players the odd's are in their favor,  self fulling.   Will see how the numbers works out with the girls next couple of years.

Marketing of youth sports is the usa is very cleaver, $15 billion $ industry built on these pipe dreams and anythings labeled  "national, usa, etc".  As the  HBO Real Sports bit points out there is not a increase in kids playing just parents spending more and more $ chasing "better" competition by traveling 
http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/time-magazine-how-kids-sports-became-a-15-billion-industry.4100/


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## Bananacorner (Sep 6, 2017)

Just my two cents, but I noticed that for the girls DA they seemed to pick many (not all) clubs that emphasize possession-style play, whether or not that club was able to develop teams that consistently win at the highest levels.  Some of these clubs are very small and don't pull in the best players at tryout time.  The reason I noticed this is by focusing only on the smaller/less successful clubs -- it seemed that they scanned and picked up those that do a good job sticking with their playing philosophy.  Other small clubs that play different styles didn't seem to get picked.


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## Mystery Train (Sep 6, 2017)

Bananacorner said:


> Just my two cents, but I noticed that for the girls DA they seemed to pick many (not all) clubs that emphasize possession-style play, whether or not that club was able to develop teams that consistently win at the highest levels.  Some of these clubs are very small and don't pull in the best players at tryout time.  The reason I noticed this is by focusing only on the smaller/less successful clubs -- it seemed that they scanned and picked up those that do a good job sticking with their playing philosophy.  Other small clubs that play different styles didn't seem to get picked.


Interesting.  I only know a couple of the DA clubs very well because I'm not in a geography close to many of them. Curious which clubs you feel got picked because they stick to a playing philosophy?


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## El Clasico (Sep 6, 2017)

MWN said:


> What we can say today is about 90% of the Youth USNT players are coming from the DA programs.  It gets harder to track (by looking at current rosters) once we get to the U20+ USNT because the associated teams are colleges and MSL/International teams.  The mens program is still in flux and now there is a very hard push to stratify the DA programs into MLS (residential programs) and Club non-residential, with a few club's trying to crack the residential nut.  The MLS programs will have the pick of the litter because they will be fully funded, whereas the Club programs will be constantly selling and scratching.


Now I am more confused than ever. So the DA program's purpose is to funnel the kids into the MLS?  I have always been under the impression that sole purpose of the DA program was to identify and develop players for the US National Teams. In other words, in the minds of most rational people who possess the ability to see what is right in front of their eyes rather than what they are being told, the only metric that matters is how many players has 10 years of boys DA produced that are PLAYING on the USMNT?  Please don't tell me that we need to give it more time because what you are really saying when you ask for more time is that FIFA doesn't allow walkers or canes on the pitch so eventually all the senior citizens will have to be phased out and young blood (presumably from the DA program) will replace them.  I find it astonishing that you can't find a 20 to 25 year old DA produced product that is good enough to replace our aging men's team.  To put it bluntly, our 35 year old players are superior to any youth player that 10 years of DA has produced. The only young blood on the US team comes from overseas. Once again, this shows exactly why any youth player that has a legitimate shot at being a global player needs to get the hell out of the US before US Soccer gets a hold of them and destroys their future.  I understand that if a scientist has enough mice to experiment on, he may develop a breakthrough drug but it sure as hell won't be on my mouse.


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## Bananacorner (Sep 6, 2017)

Mystery Train said:


> Interesting.  I only know a couple of the DA clubs very well because I'm not in a geography close to many of them. Curious which clubs you feel got picked because they stick to a playing philosophy?


I'll mention some in N Cal so it doesn't deteriorate into an argument about who plays possession-style in S Cal.  In Northern cal, many larger clubs were "passed up" for small clubs PSV Union, Lamorinda who are known for a very stringent, almost militaristic possession style.  Also on the larger club side -- De Anza, whose players split into the Cal Thorns and Earthquakes, play possession style.  Still TBD if these newly formed entities stick with the philosophy, but the group under Deza at Earthquakes certainly will.  And MVLA/Burlingame was selected to be DA, and they play possession style (although now that MVLA pulled out, I don't know what Burlingame plays). 

I'm curious to see if the curriculum that is pushed from above will include an emphasis on possession-style play.


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## MWN (Sep 6, 2017)

El Clasico said:


> Now I am more confused than ever. So the DA program's purpose is to funnel the kids into the MLS?  I have always been under the impression that sole purpose of the DA program was to identify and develop players for the US National Teams. In other words, in the minds of most rational people who possess the ability to see what is right in front of their eyes rather than what they are being told, the only metric that matters is how many players has 10 years of boys DA produced that are PLAYING on the USMNT?  Please don't tell me that we need to give it more time because what you are really saying when you ask for more time is that FIFA doesn't allow walkers or canes on the pitch so eventually all the senior citizens will have to be phased out and young blood (presumably from the DA program) will replace them.  I find it astonishing that you can't find a 20 to 25 year old DA produced product that is good enough to replace our aging men's team.  To put it bluntly, our 35 year old players are superior to any youth player that 10 years of DA has produced. The only young blood on the US team comes from overseas. Once again, this shows exactly why any youth player that has a legitimate shot at being a global player needs to get the hell out of the US before US Soccer gets a hold of them and destroys their future.  I understand that if a scientist has enough mice to experiment on, he may develop a breakthrough drug but it sure as hell won't be on my mouse.


Don't be confused.  But, yes, the DA's purpose is to funnel players to the MLS and other pro ranks.  US Soccer's goals remain the same, develop youth players that can become National Team players.    Create an environment that allows the best athletes to choose soccer v. football, baseball, basketball, hockey, etc.  Change the culture of US Soccer by influencing the development process.  US Soccer recognizes that there is only 1 group in the US whose goals and financial abilities are aligned with the high level development of players ... the MLS.  Clubs typically are not because Clubs won't financially benefit (US doesn't compensate for players), thus, the only financial benefit to Clubs is using the DA as a carrot for their Flight 1-3 teams and try to fund DA on the backs of the Flight 1-3 players, which props up the balance sheet of those clubs. 

The MLS is fine with taking on the burden of player development through its partnership with U.S. Soccer because the MLS believes it will benefit far more (needs a few hundred players) than US Soccer (needs 25 players).  Some clubs are also fine with the financial burden because it bolsters the marketability of that club.  Adding the Girls component does complicate things because professional woman's soccer is a money loser (heck, men's soccer is still a money loser).  For the sake of simplicity, let's stick with the men's program.

Because US Soccer wants high level players, and the MLS needs high level players, the two are aligned.  US Soccer doesn't really care if a player graduates from the DA and moves overseas for a professional career because the international seasons/leagues all accommodate National Team needs, so no big deal.  U.S. Soccer also doesn't care if the International Clubs raid the best US Players because US Soccer will have access to those players when it needs them.  US Soccer knows that 99.54573% of all DA players won't make it to the Mens or Womans National Team and if they do, then they are playing for some Pro Team anyway.

There is no dispute that a significant gap exists between US development of soccer players and European development of soccer players.  To this end, US Soccer saw that the 1st 5-7 years have been a failure and hired a company called Double Pass to consult and tell it what changes need to be made.  US DA programs have just now gone through the 1st round of interviews and reports and are making changes recommended by Double Pass.  I won't go into the plan, but you can read about it hear at a high level if interested: https://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/02/08/us-soccer-double-pass-youth-academy-development.

In sum, US Soccer knows the 1st 10 years have been a failure, US Soccer is actively trying to emulate the European model through associating with MLS teams for the DA and pushing very hard for adoption of residential programs (European model), and US Soccer knows that the professional teams will take the cream of the crop and further develop those players.

For all those players that don't make it to the MLS or go overseas, there is college where their carriers will end (if men), but getting a college scholarship for most should be their goal and its a success unto itself.  Girls have a different path given the professional landscape of women's team sports (i.e. hard to make a living).


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## El Clasico (Sep 6, 2017)

MWN said:


> In sum, US Soccer knows the 1st 10 years have been a failure, US Soccer is actively trying to emulate the European model through associating with MLS teams for the DA and pushing very hard for adoption of residential programs (European model), and US Soccer knows that the professional teams will take the cream of the crop and further develop those players.


So why do so many people have trouble understanding the negativity towards the new GDA? In this very same thread, it has been acknowledged that Boys DA has been a failure while at the same time, implementing that same failing structure on what has been a successful women's side.

My experience has been on the boys side as nobody has experience on the girls side as of yet.  However, that hasn't stopped a large percentage of individuals from not only jumping in with both feet, but trying to defend it to the naysayers who have already experienced it with disastrous results. I don't mind those who jump in with the hopes that it will be all that has been advertised as I can see the appeal but to defend a product that has produced no results in 10 years and has been accepted as a failure by its creator (US Soccer) demonstrates either ignorance or stupidity. And with no shortage of both, US Soccer has no incentive to improve it's product.

By the way, when I said I was confused, I was being facetious.


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## MWN (Sep 6, 2017)

El Clasico said:


> So why do so many people have trouble understanding the negativity towards the new GDA? In this very same thread, it has been acknowledged that Boys DA has been a failure while at the same time, implementing that same failing structure on what has been a successful women's side.
> 
> My experience has been on the boys side as nobody has experience on the girls side as of yet.  However, that hasn't stopped a large percentage of individuals from not only jumping in with both feet, but trying to defend it to the naysayers who have already experienced it with disastrous results. I don't mind those who jump in with the hopes that it will be all that has been advertised as I can see the appeal but to defend a product that has produced no results in 10 years and has been accepted as a failure by its creator (US Soccer) demonstrates either ignorance or stupidity. And with no shortage of both, US Soccer has no incentive to improve it's product.
> 
> By the way, when I said I was confused, I was being facetious.


I don't believe the same structure is being implemented as the Boys DA.  As @Fact acknowledged above, there are differences.   When you say it has produced "no results in 10 years" why do you believe that?  Just this year alone, the following US Soccer Development Academy players earned Caps on the US Men's National Team:

Kellyn Acosta, FC Dallas
Paul Arriola, Arsenal FC (SoCal)
Steven Birnbaum, Pateadores (SoCal)
Ethan Horvath, Real Colorado
Jordan Morris, Seattle Sounders FC
Darlington Nagbe, Internationals
Christian Pulisic, PA Classics
For a development program that is only 10 years old (2007), had some growing pains and has not yet matured, I do think the jury is still out and there are more potential Pulisics in the program today than there were when Christian joined 6-7 years ago.  The USSDA has not been a failure, but has made some errors and had some failures, but the program as a whole has in fact produced some great homegrown talent, some of which have furthered their training (like Pulisic) in countries with far more established youth and professional programs (a good thing).

The end game for the USSDA is complete and total residential programs that are funded by the Academies (aka MLS clubs).  US Soccer knows that the "pay to play" system for soccer leaves a whole lot of talent on the side of the road.  The USSDA is our best bet to eliminate the pay to play system for the top talent.  Will it happen on the girls side?  Only time will tell, but the ECNL won't give in that easily.


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## Fact (Sep 6, 2017)

espola said:


> What was the methodology for awarding boys DA teams?  I watched it in 2007 or 8 from San Diego perspective, where it seemed like the 2 clubs with best political connections got teams, and everyone else was ignored.


Ok I guess you are right but over time it has been awarded to deserving teams regardless of club.


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## espola (Sep 6, 2017)

MWN said:


> I don't believe the same structure is being implemented as the Boys DA.  As @Fact acknowledged above, there are differences.   When you say it has produced "no results in 10 years" why do you believe that?  Just this year alone, the following US Soccer Development Academy players earned Caps on the US Men's National Team:
> 
> Kellyn Acosta, FC Dallas
> Paul Arriola, Arsenal FC (SoCal)
> ...


Pulisic played a year in England and 2 years in Germany as a youth before he made the USMNT.  I suspect the DA had very little to do with his development.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 6, 2017)

espola said:


> Pulisic played a year in England and 2 years in Germany as a youth before he made the USMNT.  I suspect the DA had very little to do with his development.


So was he scouted  by these European clubs during an AYSO game?


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## MWN (Sep 6, 2017)

espola said:


> Pulisic played a year in England and 2 years in Germany as a youth before he made the USMNT.  I suspect the DA had very little to do with his development.


Did Pulisic play in England?  Yes, Brackley Town as a uLittle from 7-8.  Then he played from 2008 (age 10-17) for PA CLassics (one of the first DA clubs ... the original 64), at age 17 he moved to the US National Team training program in Florida, where he was signed to Borussia Dortmund.

*2005–2006* Brackley Town[2]
*2008–2015* PA Classics[3]
*2015–2016* Borussia Dortmund

As a youth player, he played up two age groups and was one of the youngest USSDA players.  While I think he was only in the USDA for 5 years, he nonetheless played his key development years 12-16 with PA Classsics USSDA.

The DA and competition he received in the DA was key to his development, but certainly his move at age 17 from the USSDA to Germany furthered his development.  But as it stands right now, this 18 year old kid has spent more time playing in the USSDA than for any other program.  FYI, he only spent 1 year in the German Youth program, making his professional debut a year later.


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## MarkM (Sep 6, 2017)

espola said:


> Pulisic played a year in England and 2 years in Germany as a youth before he made the USMNT.  I suspect the DA had very little to do with his development.


Pulisic played in England for a year at age seven.  He was in then in the US for the rest of his development.  He was a YNT player.  He was only in Germany for less than a year before he made the first team, so the notion that Germany was crucial to his development is totally overblown.  Like Nagbe, a lot of credit should probably go to his father.


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## MWN (Sep 6, 2017)

MarkM said:


> Pulisic played in England for a year at age seven.  He was in then in the US for the rest of his development.  He was a YNT player.  He was only in Germany for less than a year before he made the first team, so the notion that Germany was crucial to his development is totally overblown.  Like Nagbe, a lot of credit should probably go to his father.


Pulisic is the poster child for why the USSDA was created.  Create a league and training program (4 days a week) that allows the best talent to come together, throw that talent together and see who rises.  If more developed pro clubs/programs want to snatch up these youngsters from the US ... more power too them.  They are still ours.  The reality is that if the MLS was in the Premiere League just about every team would have been relegated to Level 2 or Level 3 or lower.  For USSDA players, the best thing for the USSDA is to have these players signed oversees at this time.


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## chargerfan (Sep 6, 2017)

MWN said:


> Pulisic is the poster child for why the USSDA was created.  Create a league and training program (4 days a week) that allows the best talent to come together, throw that talent together and see who rises.  If more developed pro clubs/programs want to snatch up these youngsters from the US ... more power too them.  They are still ours.  The reality is that if the MLS was in the Premiere League just about every team would have been relegated to Level 2 or Level 3 or lower.  For USSDA players, the best thing for the USSDA is to have these players signed oversees at this time.


Ok, but it looks like he had to play up 2 years to get the level of competition he needed. Those kinds are players are few and far between.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 6, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> Ok, but it looks like he had to play up 2 years to get the level of competition he needed. Those kinds are players are few and far between.


There are a few in the Girls DA doing the same!


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## MarkM (Sep 6, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> Ok, but it looks like he had to play up 2 years to get the level of competition he needed. Those kinds are players are few and far between.


All really good kids play up.  Pulisic was/is playing up in Germany too.  

The problem in the US is that we don't have any place to develop these great boys once they hit 15 or 16 (playing up becomes less effective).  In Europe, they are at pro clubs developing.  With the exception of the MSL academy teams, we don't have that system.  Some get to Europe, but that is difficult given the restrictions for youth players in Europe.  Pulisic was lucky to have the Croatian connection.


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## MWN (Sep 6, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> Ok, but it looks like he had to play up 2 years to get the level of competition he needed. Those kinds are players are few and far between.


Yep, and US Soccer knows this and the USSDA is intended to give those kids a place to play against kids their own age or just a year older.  We have all seen kids playing up an age (heck my son is), but its a special player that can play up against top level competition.   All we need is to find 26 of these kids and give them a forum and opportunity to develop and we have a winning USMNT, the rest can go play the MLS and the balance can go play college ... according to the blueprint.


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