# When to start private training?



## growingpains (Apr 27, 2018)

At what age do you recommend starting private trainings/coaching for your kids if they’re serious about soccer? And if so, is it better in a group or solo?

We’re around parents from all spectrums - some who say they’ve never done anything formal beyond what their club provided, to kids as young as 7-8 training 6-7 days a week  sometimes twice a day + other sports.

In both cases the kids are pretty darn good but it seems like it’s the ones who have been through it with their older kids that tend to lean towards not doing the privates for their youngers.. is this because they don’t see the value in it after going through it? Or maybe burned out because now it’s their 2nd, 3rd, 4th kid?

I’ve heard so many different things from some parents who are like, it basically comes down to genetics - if you have the right body type and speed, you’ll pretty much make it no matter what so long as you stick with it, to the outliers mentality of 10,000 hours will make you an elite player.

What do you think?


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## Fishme1 (Apr 27, 2018)

if your son/ DD really wants it and shows heart and willing to put the work in. you should start now. Put him/her to the challenge.


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## jose (Apr 27, 2018)

when they start nagging you to take them to do more than what they get at practice you will know. if they dont have a ball on their foot running around the house or back yard they dont want extra training.   Dont turn it into a job.  My 17 yo now puts in work every day on her terms.   just my two pesos


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## gkparent (Apr 27, 2018)

jose said:


> if they dont have a ball on their foot running around the house or back yard they dont want extra training.   Dont turn it into a job.


Saw a U7-ish girl in a tutu at a club practice recently. She was doing all her little ballet moves as the scrimmage went on around her. It was glorious. She was just doing her thing. And I give props to the parents and the coach that let her wear that tutu to practice!


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## Josep (Apr 27, 2018)

In utero.


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## Paul Spacey (Apr 27, 2018)

growingpains said:


> At what age do you recommend starting private trainings/coaching for your kids if they’re serious about soccer? And if so, is it better in a group or solo?
> 
> We’re around parents from all spectrums - some who say they’ve never done anything formal beyond what their club provided, to kids as young as 7-8 training 6-7 days a week  sometimes twice a day + other sports.
> 
> ...


If only learning and development were a 1+1=2 equation, we'd have a production line of world class players! Unfortunately, it's non-linear and complex.

Yes, genetics play a part (whether you like it or not, it's a factor) but so does the environment that the individual is in. Let's take a kid who has lots of other activities and plays soccer only once or twice a week with no informal or unstructured games; they would likely benefit from private coaching. Now let's take a kid in an inner-city area, with little to no other outside activities except soccer (we'll say they play pickup and 'street' soccer most days along with a team also); they likely are in less need of private coaching. Did most of Brazil's soccer stars have private coaching? Almost certainly not.

In reference to your last paragraph; the best answer is somewhere in between. Genetics alone won't make anyone a good soccer player. Equally though, neither will 10,000 hours of practice if your genetics don't lend themselves to the intensity and speed/agility required to excel at soccer. That said, 10,000 hours of practice (if it is purposeful, deliberate practice) will get you pretty good at anything!

I coached here privately for a number of years before starting a club and I would always advise parents to do a combination of group and 1-to-1 training, if they had the time (and $ of course). Both have benefits (and drawbacks) and so a combo will help get the most of out of any kid in terms of technical improvement and decision making. 

All of that taken into account, the ultimate driver is the kid. If they don't truly enjoy the game and actually *want *to do extra private training, it's probably best you don't push them into it. Some encouragement may be needed (interestingly, many elite athletes have said they were 'pushed' into additional training at some point in their childhood) but it cannot be forced.


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## Chalklines (Apr 27, 2018)

But... But...The Jones kid at 9 already hit 10,000 hours of practice down the street


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## ChrisD (Apr 28, 2018)

I started last year when my son was 8, hes had a ball at his feet since he could walk, I asked my coach if he knew anyone and we were lucky enough that he recommend a place local to me in tustin.  Best money I ever spent...
like someone said above, you see when the kid is ready, dont push it...
Stick with group training , its less expensive and your kid needs to still be surrounded by other kids, keeps it fun and keeps it competitive.
You can do privates here and there, but group ones especially with teammates and friends seem to be the ticket for us.
As a parent its your job to provide them a path, their job is to work hard and if their not into it stop immediately, that means their not having fun and your being pushy which WILL have negative outcomes.....
The best FREE PRIVATE TRAINING IS YOUTUBE, when your kids is watching YOUTUBE videos on soccer all day , make that jump....
good luck!!


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## growingpains (Apr 28, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> All of that taken into account, the ultimate driver is the kid. If they don't truly enjoy the game and actually *want *to do extra private training, it's probably best you don't push them into it. Some encouragement may be needed (interestingly, many elite athletes have said they were 'pushed' into additional training at some point in their childhood) but it cannot be forced.


Thanks. My big concern is burnout - I saw a video on this forum the other day where I think it was some Australian coach who made a 2x2 that showed those who are successful with no talent/no committment, no talent but committed, talented but not committed, and both talented and committed. The study showed that the talented and committed are amazing but very rare, the talented but not committed usually drop out, and so you usually end up with a lot of less talented but committed players in the end with a few rare instances of truly talented and committed players.

I’m getting a bit deep here but it made me think about how true that is when you look at life in general. Few kids go out thinking to themselves they want to be uncommitted - they just end up losing interest - and my epiphany this morning was, maybe because they reached early success, it was no longer much of a challenge for them. They feel they’ve already learned all the skills in the book, they’re clearly better than all/most of their peers, and now they’re bored and want to look for the next challenge. Where as, the mediocre players still see the “carrot” and have that chip on their shoulder to keep pursuing and the need to prove themselves, they have the discipline and desire to finish the race.

In other words, my sense is, it’s like the tortoise and the hare. Even if your kid has talent, do they have to be the best player at age 8-11? Or is it more important that they continue progressing and learn a little more everyday so it stays interesting, they’re more likely to hunger for more, and gives them time to feel like they’ve had a chance to live life and explore other things. 

I guess the question is, at what age do they really need to start fine tuning those skills if you want to have playing college soccer as an option? Right now my DD is good enough to get by at the current level she’s playing, she does practice on her own and is open to privates, loves watching soccer. but wondering if I should just hold off and let time take it’s course?


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## Paul Spacey (Apr 28, 2018)

growingpains said:


> Thanks. My big concern is burnout - I saw a video on this forum the other day where I think it was some Australian coach who made a 2x2 that showed those who are successful with no talent/no committment, no talent but committed, talented but not committed, and both talented and committed. The study showed that the talented and committed are amazing but very rare, the talented but not committed usually drop out, and so you usually end up with a lot of less talented but committed players in the end with a few rare instances of truly talented and committed players.
> 
> I’m getting a bit deep here but it made me think about how true that is when you look at life in general. Few kids go out thinking to themselves they want to be uncommitted - they just end up losing interest - and my epiphany this morning was, maybe because they reached early success, it was no longer much of a challenge for them. They feel they’ve already learned all the skills in the book, they’re clearly better than all/most of their peers, and now they’re bored and want to look for the next challenge. Where as, the mediocre players still see the “carrot” and have that chip on their shoulder to keep pursuing and the need to prove themselves, they have the discipline and desire to finish the race.
> 
> ...


Great way of looking at it. No doubt the commitment/talent combo is rare and those are invariably the kids who make it at a high level. In fact, it’s safe to say without both of those things, you simply won’t make it to a high level as the competition will weed you out.

There is an element of kids being too comfortable and bored when they are the best and so they need to be in an environment where they are constantly challenged by coaches, teammates and opponents. The article below talks about this issue actually:

https://www.fcengland.com/news_article/show/910362?referrer_id=3861005

In terms of playing high level soccer (college for example), the sooner you start fine tuning skills, the better. Hundreds of thousands of other kids are fine tuning already; competition is tough at that standard. If your kid loves watching the game, that’s great. Not enough people realize how much can be learned from watching (and studying, not just casually watching) top level soccer teams and individuals play; you can pick up so much. 

Always an individual decision with your kid as the driver. No harm in trying it and seeing if the desire and engagement is there.


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## Chalklines (Apr 28, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> There is an element of kids being too comfortable and bored when they are the best and so they need to be in an environment where they are constantly challenged by coaches, teammates and opponents.


This is where one of my kids falls.

They need the extra push and small group and 1 on 1 training that's pushing them harder then the club. The extra training is filling that missing gap left at practice.

Quite a few people here preach the small club approach and it's great to a point until your player out grows the current team and becomes bored at practice. The club has helped and bumped our player up another additional year but the tallent just lacks other then the kids are much bigger. (Size can always bring a new challenge to any sport)

Where I'm going with this is you need to gage your players situation individually. If they are being pushed mentally and physically at practice and games, privates may fry them out. If your kids left hurngy and looking for a challenge at any age it's always best to feed the beast to a certain age appropriate point.


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## mirage (Apr 29, 2018)

Donno how old your kid is but it seems to me, based on most the posts thus far, that the whole thing is too focused on affecting the child, rather than the child's own initiative and let the kid affect the process.

Ultimately the are two key ingredients to success at any sports in my view.  One, its the genetic lottery (it is what it is), and the other is desire.  If one is lucky enough to have done well in the genetic lottery portion, then desire will determine the rest.  Private lessons, is just a byproduct of wanting to improve.  There is no burnout for those with desire.

You don't believe for moment that all those professional players that come from less than wealthy countries, developed by having their parents paying for privates and worrying about burnout do you?


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## growingpains (Apr 29, 2018)

mirage said:


> You don't believe for moment that all those professional players that come from less than wealthy countries, developed by having their parents paying for privates and worrying about burnout do you?


We live in a very different environment than those other countries. There, kids have opportunities to play all-day, everyday and other kids to do it with anytime you want -so it’s a culture and that means there are plenty to learn from and plenty of opportunities to learn. Here, I can’t even find a field with an open goal that’s not locked up outside of some club or team training let alone just let her walk to the park for a pickup game.

Burnout can take different forms - my team Mgr has an older who was all about soccer, very talented and had a bright future. The parents are by no means the pressuring kind. He wanted to be a pro player, watched soccer all the time, always had a ball on his foot, etc...  he was starting on the highest team at a fairly large club and then all of a sudden decided he didn’t want anything to do with soccer anymore. Nothing wrong with that, he just wasn’t interested anymore.

I know there’s no crystal ball. And nothing wrong with doing privates, but my observation has been that a lot of the parents I’ve spoken to who’s older kids are now being recruited or have had kids go play at top D1 schools, their youngers aren’t doing privates, they’re not sending them to camps, etc... until they’re near recruiting age. they’ll still go to the park and kick around, but keep it very light and limited to what the club provides. Maybe it’s cost, who knows... but to me it says something. They’re also usually the ones who are quiet on the sidelines except when cheering, aren’t “having the talk” on the way home, don’t sit and watch every practice, etc....


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## mirage (Apr 29, 2018)

growingpains said:


> ....he was starting on the highest team at a fairly large club and then all of a sudden decided he didn’t want anything to do with soccer anymore. Nothing wrong with that, he just wasn’t interested anymore.
> 
> I know there’s no crystal ball. And nothing wrong with doing privates, but my observation has been that a lot of the parents I’ve spoken to who’s older kids are now being recruited or have had kids go play at top D1 schools, their youngers aren’t doing privates,.........They’re also usually the ones who are quiet on the sidelines except when cheering, aren’t “having the talk” on the way home, don’t sit and watch every practice, etc....


Two things.

One, with all due respect, I would not equate quitting to burnout.  There are plenty of other reasons, including that he may have realized its not worth the sacrifice to get to the next level, however good he was, as well as wasn't going to get to the pro level.  I have seen many kids on high level teams, including older DA's quit once they realize about themselves.

The other, I do have our older son playing in college currently and one in HS.  We talk about after game recaps but not from the perspective of you you're calling "the talk".  Its almost impossible to generalize this subject because each player is different so are the situations.


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## Chalklines (Apr 29, 2018)

growingpains said:


> They’re also usually the ones who are quiet on the sidelines except when cheering, aren’t “having the talk” on the way home, don’t sit and watch every practice, etc....


95% of the time its the quiet ones who are the worst. You see one thing in public but behind closed car doors its a different story.


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## sandshark (Apr 30, 2018)

The extra private training is mostly BS at any age. Save your money & time.


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## Sheriff Joe (Apr 30, 2018)

Chalklines said:


> 95% of the time its the quiet ones who are the worst. You see one thing in public but behind closed car doors its a different story.


I thought we were talking about soccer, not women.


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## outside! (Apr 30, 2018)

sandshark said:


> The extra private training is mostly BS at any age. Save your money & time.


Sorry it did not work well for your player. Extra training has helped my players. When doing extra training, you should notice results within a few weeks.


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## Surfref (May 1, 2018)

My two cents.....first DO NOT use a trainer from the same club where your kid plays. The best trainers my daughter and many of her teammates have had were not even club coaches or coached at other clubs.  The three best trainers she had were ex-pro (US National team and MLS) and college players who only did training. When my daughter was younger she would attend local camps during the summer and she was happy with that, learning and getting better. She started privates at 12 years old with two teammates because she asked me how she could get faster and improver her foot work. The trainer was a boys coach from another club who had played professionally and really pushed the three girls. At 13 she moved to one-on-one training with the ex-US National team player and stayed with her until 14 1/2 y/o to 15 y/o when the trainer began coaching club. We saw a lot of improvement in her game, so she wanted to continue training. She started training at Catalyst when she was 15 y/o and her skill, speed and agility really improved significantly.  My DD, and I agree with her, says she Catalyst is the reason she had the skills to play in college and get a significant soccer scholarship. My daughter currently does training and actually goes out and watches the girls she trains play in games so she knows exactly what the player needs to work on. Her trainers at Catalyst did this and also contacted her club coaches to find out what they thought my daughter needed to work on.

Find a trainer that will really push your kid out of their comfort zone.  If the trainer is not pushing your kid or you are not seeing improvement after four sessions than go find another trainer.  Whatever you do, do not use your kid's club coach as their trainer.  They need a completely different perspective and someone else to motivate them.


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## Fact (May 1, 2018)

Surfref said:


> Whatever you do, do not use your kid's club coach as their trainer.  They need a completely different perspective and someone else to motivate them.


If your goal is to improve, I agree with Surfref that you should
not use your club coach or any coach in your club (although we did use a past coach at one point because he was great and convenient.

Hiwever, if your goal is to buy a spot at eithe of the two girls DA clubs in the City of San Diego, be aware of the fact that your coaches prefer cash.


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## Paul Spacey (May 1, 2018)

There seems to be a bit of an obsession with private coaching (I’ve done some in the past so don’t want to sound like a hypocrite but I do feel this needs to be addressed.) Yes, it can help with some agility and technical improvement but it is limited because of the lack of decision making and opponents with which to reference what you are doing with the ball. Kids need to get out in groups and play more pickup, 5v5 and futsal. It is no coincidence that the players who do those things are comfortably the most developed I see during games and they are just more natural in terms of their affinity with the ball and the game in general.

I understand there is a need for private coaching in many areas of SoCal because there is nowhere near enough informal or pick-up soccer. Private coaching fills some of that void. However, it can never replace actual player interaction and literally ‘playing’ the game. 

Player development and improvement is similar to maintaining a healthy diet. Lots of different foods and a wide variety of nutrients. With soccer development, a small amount of private coaching is helpful if you have the other ingredients; good club/team coaching, competitive games and informal/pickup soccer (5v5, futsal or just playing with friends at a field). You need a broad spectrum of training/play to see real improvement.

Bottom line; don’t get obsessed with private coaching. Make sure your kid is being exposed to lots of different aspects of the game and training if you want to see them thrive.


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## justneededaname (May 1, 2018)

I would worry more about boredom than burnout. My DS started doing extra soccer outside his club when he was 7. He had an appetite for doing more. Whenever I asked if he wanted to play on an extra futsal or indoor team or play in a little 4v4 tournament he always said yes. He started doing group privates when he was nine with a group from his team. Just more time playing and he liked it. He started at Catalyst when he was 10 and wanted to work one on one with someone and had outgrown the one on one I could do with him in the park (mostly because I don't know much about soccer and by that age he knew way more than me). I agree with surfref, Catalyst was great for him. This year he started in the DA with 4 day a week trainings with his team. So I backed off everything else because it just seemed like a lot. Now, 10 months later, I see his enthusiasm for soccer has really dropped.  Is he still committed? Yes, but now it is committed to working on his three-point shot and his lay-up. He will spend hours practicing and it is because he noticed at school he was pretty good at basketball but didn't really have all the skills.  Now we are trying to figure out where to go next. I think the path will be trying to find ways to make soccer more interesting and fun again (privates, small-group, and training up a year) while also letting him explore other sports where the opportunity presents itself (middle school).


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## mirage (May 1, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> ..........Kids need to get out in groups and play more pickup, 5v5 and futsal. It is no coincidence that the players who do those things are comfortably the most developed I see during games and they are just more natural in terms of their affinity with the ball and the game in general.
> 
> Player development and improvement................You need a broad spectrum of training/play to see real improvement.
> 
> Bottom line; don’t get obsessed with private coaching. Make sure your kid is being exposed to lots of different aspects of the game and training if you want to see them thrive.


Yeah I agree with this.  The thing is we are so used to having structured environment for the kids.  We put them into organized sports and organized lessons and so on.  As I'd mentioned in an earlier post, the kid has to show initiative and desire.

Most private lessons are an hour and lets say that you do it 1~2x / week.  The problem is the dwell time in between.  What are these kids doing in between the lessons?  Team training is not the same as its working on team skills and not individual skills (which is why you do privates).

Kids that are motivated and have the desire have a ball at their feet all the time.  My older kid had a Nurf/squishy ball in the house since toddler til he moved out to goto college.  When he's home he gets the ball out from the hall closet and he is still at it.

He would walk around the house juggling the squishy ball (he wanted to use a real ball but I would not let him for obvious reasons).  Before school, waiting for his carpool ride before he drove, would setup a Bownet goal and shoot in the driveway for 10~15 minutes every morning.  He wold also goto outdoor racquet ball courts at a HS and kick soccer balls against the wall to work on his accuracy and first touch as it bounced back at him.  He would goto an empty field to just practice shooting for hours (we have lots of balls so picking up balls were every 15~20 shots).

Played club soccer since 10 yrs old (rec before that) and played in Santa Ana league on Sat evenings and on Sundays (when didn't conflict with club) for 4 years. 

We had him do privates to address certain issues and deficiencies from time to time (maybe 3~4 times) but only as a mean to address particular items.  Not on a continuous basis.  Also we never did privates for more than 4 sessions at any given time.  After that we see how it address the issue and he would work on it on his own.

As for other sports, like mentioned above, its only natural that we want variety in life.  My kid played multiple sports most of the time.  One HS year when he was on DA, since he could not play HS Soccer, he signed up for PE basketball for the year and played basketball at school. 

So look, I know parents worry about their kids and their best being.  There's nothing wrong with wanting to provide the best one can for the kids.  That said, some kids will do what it takes on his/her own, and some no so much.  No amount of privates or organized sports is going to change who the person is.  It will happen, if the desire is there.  It probably won't, if the desire isn't.


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## Surfref (May 1, 2018)

Paul Spacey said:


> There seems to be a bit of an obsession with private coaching (I’ve done some in the past so don’t want to sound like a hypocrite but I do feel this needs to be addressed.) Yes, it can help with some agility and technical improvement but it is limited because of the lack of decision making and opponents with which to reference what you are doing with the ball. Kids need to get out in groups and play more pickup, 5v5 and futsal. It is no coincidence that the players who do those things are comfortably the most developed I see during games and they are just more natural in terms of their affinity with the ball and the game in general.
> 
> I understand there is a need for private coaching in many areas of SoCal because there is nowhere near enough informal or pick-up soccer. Private coaching fills some of that void. However, it can never replace actual player interaction and literally ‘playing’ the game.
> 
> ...


Once your kid is in high school there is no reason they should not get involved in pick up games.  When my daughter was 15 she began playing small sided coed pickup games with her trainer and a bunch of other adults usually on Friday or Saturday nights.  She was only 5'2" and playing against grown men really increased her physicality and gave her the confidence she would need to play the more physical college game.  She still plays indoor pickup games almost every week.  Her ex-boyfriend didn't like playing against her after they broke up because she would slam him into the boards or give one of those girl nasty hip checks.  They get along now, but she says she still gets him good at least once a game.

I do think a good trainer is needed to help refine skills along with speed and agility.  My daughter would learn or refine a skill with the trainer and then go out and use it during a club game or pick up game.  The training must spill over into the games or the training is useless.


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## sandshark (May 1, 2018)

I found with my kids over the years if they really love the sport they are in they play it with friends and family or even by themselves on their down time. If your at one of the clubs that trains 3 - 4 days a week or even more and plays almost every weekend and your child still struggles you might want to think about why they are having this struggle?
   In the younger ages you would hope the foundation that has been built with these players has set them up for the older play, but if they got off on the wrong foot and have some major deficiency in their body position or form and you current coach cant fix this in the time they have with them you have a bigger issue then needing an outside trainer. 
 Soccer is like most sports, once you have the basics of body position and understanding of the game you need repetition and a passion for the game along with a drive to yourself to your personal best. As an athlete it is always a good idea to try and surround yourself  with the best or better players. NO trainer can beat actual game play with quality players! But of course you need the foundation of the basics before any of this matters. Remember every coach, trainer, club and college will have a different style of play, they all coach and direct the players differently. 
 One of many issues is we are talking about youth soccer NOT professional soccer, so this is all about building several things if a child has real dreams of playing at the next level. Hard fact.. 99% of the coaches and trainers have zero clue on how to truly prepare a child for professional sports! Also NEWS FLASH a person that has been a professional athlete does not mean they are a good trainer in any sport! In the younger's it takes as much of a mental connection to build these athletes as anything else. 
_Go check out a real professional athlete in any sport when in a training session and you will see the mental aspect of their sessions are every bit as important as the physical and skill._
_ In the younger ages what your player needs is the freedom to fall in love with the sport_ (any sport) at their own pace, they need the room to breath and make mistakes on their own. They do not need a constant bombardment of Mommy & Daddy riding their asses to take extra training! Further more without a natural God given skill set, body type and personal natural drive ( ALL things no trainer can ever teach) your pissing money away on some smooth talking trainer selling you a line of BS! In all our years of sports I have seen hundreds and hundreds of families spend money on training to fix what mother nature didn't provide their superstar with, they all eventually move onto another trainer and keep blaming coaches and trainers for their childs short comings in the sport! Sorry Mommy & Daddy but your super star just doesn't have that extra special gift and no trainer is going to fix it. 
What a child needs most of all is a true love and passion for the sport, any sport and then you will see them do their best. _If you over train, over talk, over push and make them them think their performance on the filed dictates their worth in life you are simply setting your child up for major disappointment and eventually burn out. _

 Now lets get to the highest level of play in a professional setting. Yes they will provide you with some elite trainers that will fix diet/nutrition, cardio, proper weight training, cool downs, muscle rest time and hands on training in your sport. But that is when they really need the extra professional training / edge to play with the best in the world. Any training to actually make a difference has to be on a constant basis with a 100% commitment from all, everyone in tune with your entire support group. A real professional trainer will watch you in a game setting because they need to be in tune with your current coach and style of play, position and goals in your sport. Anything less is again pissing money away!  

Just the fact that "trainers" are training these kids on what the parents are telling them what the athlete needs is funny. So your telling me the "professional trainer" that has never seen your child play, never talked to your coach about what the deficiencies are is willing to take your money based on some parents point of view and he/she is going to fix it based on a parents point of view? 
*If you currently have a trainer that has never come to your childs games to see what your childs issues are on the field during game play or talked to your childs coach about what exactly he / she needs from your player, then you don't have a trainer you have a con artist! So again ...pissing money away!            *


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## growingpains (May 1, 2018)

justneededaname said:


> Now, 10 months later, I see his enthusiasm for soccer has really dropped.  Is he still committed? Yes, but now it is committed to working on his three-point shot and his lay-up. He will spend hours practicing and it is because he noticed at school he was pretty good at basketball but didn't really have all the skills.


This is exactly what I’m talking about... Sometimes a change like this could be influenced by friends (all his friends are playing basketball now) but a lot of kids are simply motivated and thrive on the challenge of getting good at something - sometimes everything.

My DD as of now isn’t highly influenced by what her friends are doing (Something we’ve really been stressing) but my fear is it gets too repetitive and she gets bored. Soccer is by far her favorite, but she also has a lot of other interests (like art, etc...)....

Too bad there’s no crystal ball! Seems like it really just depends on the kid - some of them you gotta pace it, others helping them be the best at something and giving them the tools the sooner the better is what keeps them interested.


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## Surfref (May 1, 2018)

sandshark said:


> .......NO trainer can beat actual game play with quality players! .....


I am not a fan of players under 10 y/o using private trainers unless it is to fix a part of a players skill set that the coach tells the parents to work on. I do think a trainer is critical for the 14 and above age players, especially the ones that want to and have a shot to play in college.  I agree with some of your post and disagree with other parts, but want to address this statement, "NO trainer can beat actual game play with quality players!"  I disagree with your statement.  No amount of game play is going to teach a player the proper way to take a volley shot, tweak kicking mechanics, proper heading technique, learn to defend properly, etc.  A player can use those learned and perfected skills in a game, but a game is not the place to learn those skills.  Coaches do not teach the techniques in practice and most coaches will tell players to go find a trainer to fix some skill deficiency.  

I do agree with you that not all professional players make good coaches or trainers, but most professional players do know the level of work, mindset and skill set that it takes to make it to the next level.  All of my daughter's trainers watched her play, watched her game video, took input from her coach, took input from my daughter, and developed a training plan to strengthen the skills she already possessed, learn new skills, mentally focus and increase speed and agility. They also worked on her mental game and taught her to turn off outside thoughts and focus on her play and the game.  My daughter never would have been a college player if it had not been for some very good trainers working with her on a regular basis.


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## sandshark (May 1, 2018)

Surfref said:


> I am not a fan of players under 10 y/o using private trainers unless it is to fix a part of a players skill set that the coach tells the parents to work on. I do think a trainer is critical for the 14 and above age players, especially the ones that want to and have a shot to play in college.  I agree with some of your post and disagree with other parts, but want to address this statement, "NO trainer can beat actual game play with quality players!"  I disagree with your statement.  No amount of game play is going to teach a player the proper way to take a volley shot, tweak kicking mechanics, proper heading technique, learn to defend properly, etc.  A player can use those learned and perfected skills in a game, but a game is not the place to learn those skills.  Coaches do not teach the techniques in practice and most coaches will tell players to go find a trainer to fix some skill deficiency.
> 
> I do agree with you that not all professional players make good coaches or trainers, but most professional players do know the level of work, mindset and skill set that it takes to make it to the next level.  All of my daughter's trainers watched her play, watched her game video, took input from her coach, took input from my daughter, and developed a training plan to strengthen the skills she already possessed, learn new skills, mentally focus and increase speed and agility. They also worked on her mental game and taught her to turn off outside thoughts and focus on her play and the game.  My daughter never would have been a college player if it had not been for some very good trainers working with her on a regular basis.


I also agree with some of your response. I do not see a 14yr understanding the complete commitment it takes do do outside training properly and I surly do not see a 14 year old making a huge decision and understanding what it means to attend college? I'm thinking @ 14 years old they are following the parents suggestion of how he or she wants/should to attend college? And as far as you disagreeing with my statement about  "no amount of training is better than game play" like my next sentence right after that says.. "But of course you need the foundation of the basics before any of this matters." kinda covers your concerns on that one. 
 That is good to know you had trainers that invested the time and major effort to come watch your daughter play.  WOW what a statement you made RE: "My daughter never would have been a college player if it had not been for some very good trainers working with her on a regular basis" That is a HUGE pat on the back to your trainers! I'm guessing your DD must be playing at a D1 UCLA, Stanford, Duke type program for you to have invested the time and effort into her like what your talking about, it is cool to hear of a women's soccer player that loved it enough to sacrifice her younger years to follow her dreams all the way to the very top!
 We have two professional athletes in our gang of kids and I would say not a single trainer that they ever came across gets or deserves credit for their success. We did a few training sessions over the years between our children in some sports mainly because they were free sessions and we figured its worth a try if the kid is up for it, they were nothing more than simple repetitions of their chosen sport. YES they did offer some simple fundamentals and fine tuning but all with major holes in their training sessions on making it worth the time and effort it took for us to meet up with them. We had a world renowned two time world Champion trainer for one of our children but our kid couldn't connect personally with him so the training was always a little off.  

 I wont argue that training properly will help the kids, but that is the major issue here training properly and the fact that youth soccer clubs as/is are already over training, over playing and taking up the child's life to the point that doing a real training program is virtually impossible. So i find it hard to imagine that some 1/2 ass typical trainer is truly a good thing in the long run. 
_Its usually just another source of tax free income for some flunky that prays on crazy parents! _


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## mirage (May 1, 2018)

Surfref said:


> ..........I do think a trainer is critical for the 14 and above age players, especially the ones that want to and have a shot to play in college.........
> 
> ...........No amount of game play is going to teach a player the proper way to take a volley shot, tweak kicking mechanics, proper heading technique, learn to defend properly, etc.  A player can use those learned and perfected skills in a game, but a game is not the place to learn those skills.  Coaches do not teach the techniques in practice and most coaches will tell players to go find a trainer to fix some skill deficiency.........


So there's the problem.  Its when one makes an absolute statement like yours in a generalized discussion.  In your mind and in the particular case, having a private trainer made a difference of your kid playing in college.  It is not the case for all college players, but its being presented as though if you want to have a chance to play in college, private trainer is essential. 

Private trainer can help and if one needs it - fine.  Just for the record, my kid playing in college did not have a private trainer after 14 years old.  He did early on, as I've mentioned in my last post, but not since.  So there's the other side of the coin.

As for learning proper techniques, I agree that any player needs to learn those skills during a practice environment but to execute them under pressure cannot be taught during private or any trainer session.  It must be committed into muscle memory and has to become second nature.  The only way to commit physical sports skills into muscle memory is to work at it in repetition and trying it out during the games.  As you know, there are plenty of excellent practice players that under perform terribly in games. 

I believe it is very difficult to generalize the need for private trainers.  It is so individual dependent and situation.  I can only share my particular experience with my older kid.  Our younger kid in high school has never done privates - has done Coerver group sessions - and does not have the desire of our older.  The younger kid has no interest in playing in college and is perfectly happy with playing Flight 1 and HS soccer - no more, no less.


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## Paul Spacey (May 1, 2018)

sandshark said:


> Its usually just another source of tax free income for some flunky that prays on crazy parents!


I coached privately myself for a while and I’ve seen perhaps 30+ private trainers doing their typical sessions in the past 6 years. Of those, maybe 1 or 2 looked as though it would be worth the time and $ investment for the parents/kid. The huge majority definitely do it for the money with little to zero interest in designing engaging, beneficial sessions for their athletes.

If you see a kid juggling or jogging around a field, that’s enough; the coach has no idea.

Like a few people have said, privates can have some value as an additional training option for your kid but the effect is relatively small.


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