# GNT - inconsistent performance?



## Soccer43 (Sep 13, 2017)

Was looking at the recent YNT's international matches and curious about the results

U18 WNT defeated Australia 4-1 but lost to Canada 1-4
U17 WNT defeated England 6-1 but lost to China 5-4 and tied Canada 1-1
U16 GNT defeated Belgium 1-0 and Switerland 2-1 and Croatia 4-0 but lost to Germany 0-4

Is it just a matter of doing well against the lower level teams but struggling against the tougher ones or is it style of play?  I have seen a lot of debate about whether US Soccer is doing a good job on selection and decisions regarding the youth teams and wondering if we can learn anything from these scores?


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## Dos Equis (Sep 13, 2017)

We have the deepest pool of talented players in the world. We are being out-coached.


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## bababooey (Sep 14, 2017)

I agree with DE, with all of the talent across this nation, there should not be wild swings from game-to-game.

I have a question......with the opposition teams listed above (Australia, Canada, England, China, etc.), do those nations have residential academies for their female players? If so, I think it will always be tougher for the YNT's to compete when they play the majority of their season with their club team then come together for a week or two before competing internationally.

My belief is if the US Soccer Federation established residential academies for boys and girls and those players practiced with the same players throughout the year, we would be more competitive on the world stage.


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## pulguita (Sep 14, 2017)

bababooey said:


> I agree with DE, with all of the talent across this nation, there should not be wild swings from game-to-game.
> 
> I have a question......with the opposition teams listed above (Australia, Canada, England, China, etc.), do those nations have residential academies for their female players? If so, I think it will always be tougher for the YNT's to compete when they play the majority of their season with their club team then come together for a week or two before competing internationally.
> 
> My belief is if the US Soccer Federation established residential academies for boys and girls and those players practiced with the same players throughout the year, we would be more competitive on the world stage.


Residential academies are bs.  How well have they worked for the men?  Here is the problem.  Every Tom, Dick and Harry throughout the US has there own philosophy of how they think the game should be played.  There is no National Style.  All the Euro countries have a style, their players play in their clubs that promote that style so when they come together it is natural.  Why do you think Spain is once again on the rise.  They have replaced a generation of players with up and coming new guys that are phenoms.  But for the most part they play in the domestic leagues.  I believe this is why Brazil and Argentina have somewhat struggled on the big stage.  Their best players are leaving South America for Europe and are immersed in different styles from the EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga etc.  Then they have to come back and play cohesively.  Until the US can decide what it is and how to play it will always be a cf.  I will repeat again.  Give me the best SoCal players with a quality coach that trains 2-3 times a week and have normal lives and they will beat any team that US Soccer puts together at the various age groups.  They will also take on the world.


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## bababooey (Sep 14, 2017)

pulguita said:


> Residential academies are bs.  How well have they worked for the men?  Here is the problem.  Every Tom, Dick and Harry throughout the US has there own philosophy of how they think the game should be played.  There is no National Style.  All the Euro countries have a style, their players play in their clubs that promote that style so when they come together it is natural.  Why do you think Spain is once again on the rise.  They have replaced a generation of players with up and coming new guys that are phenoms.  But for the most part they play in the domestic leagues.  I believe this is why Brazil and Argentina have somewhat struggled on the big stage.  Their best players are leaving South America for Europe and are immersed in different styles from the EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga etc.  Then they have to come back and play cohesively.  Until the US can decide what it is and how to play it will always be a cf.  I will repeat again.  Give me the best SoCal players with a quality coach that trains 2-3 times a week and have normal lives and they will beat any team that US Soccer puts together at the various age groups.  They will also take on the world.


Great points. Thanks for the response. Makes a lot of sense to me.


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## Lambchop (Sep 14, 2017)

pulguita said:


> Residential academies are bs.  How well have they worked for the men?  Here is the problem.  Every Tom, Dick and Harry throughout the US has there own philosophy of how they think the game should be played.  There is no National Style.  All the Euro countries have a style, their players play in their clubs that promote that style so when they come together it is natural.  Why do you think Spain is once again on the rise.  They have replaced a generation of players with up and coming new guys that are phenoms.  But for the most part they play in the domestic leagues.  I believe this is why Brazil and Argentina have somewhat struggled on the big stage.  Their best players are leaving South America for Europe and are immersed in different styles from the EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga etc.  Then they have to come back and play cohesively.  Until the US can decide what it is and how to play it will always be a cf.  I will repeat again.  Give me the best SoCal players with a quality coach that trains 2-3 times a week and have normal lives and they will beat any team that US Soccer puts together at the various age groups.  They will also take on the world.


They would need to train more than 2-3 times a week.  Most of the Euro clubs practice every day.  China is now having all students learn soccer in school and sending kids to academies at a young age. Their future will be interesting.


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## pulguita (Sep 14, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> They would need to train more than 2-3 times a week.  Most of the Euro clubs practice every day.  China is now having all students learn soccer in school and sending kids to academies at a young age. Their future will be interesting.


That's fine.  There are not a lot of residential academies in Europe.   They do pretty well.   If they are being sent to academies in China I doubt most are residential.  Their advantage is there is only one style in China.  We will now have GDA.  Guess what?  They for the most part will be trained by the same bozos that ran ECNL.  What do you think the product improvement will be?  We have better athletes across the board.  We need better coaching with a better structure and an identity.


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## texanincali (Sep 14, 2017)

pulguita said:


> Residential academies are bs.  How well have they worked for the men?  Here is the problem.  Every Tom, Dick and Harry throughout the US has there own philosophy of how they think the game should be played.  There is no National Style.  All the Euro countries have a style, their* players play in their clubs that promote that style* so when they come together it is natural.  *Why do you think Spain is once again on the rise*.  They have replaced a generation of players with up and coming new guys that are phenoms.  But for the most part they play in the domestic leagues.  I believe this is why Brazil and Argentina have somewhat struggled on the big stage.  Their best players are leaving South America for Europe and are immersed in different styles from the EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga etc.  Then they have to come back and play cohesively.  Until the US can decide what it is and how to play it will always be a cf.  I will repeat again.  Give me the best SoCal players with a quality coach that trains 2-3 times a week and have normal lives and they will beat any team that US Soccer puts together at the various age groups.  They will also take on the world.


You make pretty good points, but not sure that is the best example - Barcelona and Real Madrid couldn't have more contrasting styles - yet they are merging them pretty well at the moment.


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## pulguita (Sep 14, 2017)

texanincali said:


> You make pretty good points, but not sure that is the best example - Barcelona and Real Madrid couldn't have more contrasting styles - yet they are merging them pretty well at the moment.


Barca obviously possession and Real is relentless at the counter however at the foundation all the players have been taught the Spanish way.  I do not believe you can convert a player that has been direct their entire life to all the sudden become possession oriented.  A possession player can change on a dime.  They have the technical foundation to play any style.  It is much easier to tell someone to just go rather than settle in support the ball and then move (way over simplified) but I think you get the point.  That is why the possession game at the younger ages sets the foundation for down the road.  If you have the tools you can play any style.  The US has to play a style that fits the players they have.  That's why we truly can't play a 4-3-3 and all its real variations because we do not have midfielders that can do it (we do) they are just not valued and we don't have coaches that know it to implement it.


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## Legendary FC (Sep 14, 2017)

http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2017/09/13/17/28/20170912-recap-u16gnt-v-germany

Terrible.


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## Legendary FC (Sep 14, 2017)

http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2017/09/14/19/03/20170914-news-wnt-fifa-approves-change-of-national-association-for-sofia-huerta

This is great news!  Huerta is awesome!!


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## offthecrossbar (Sep 14, 2017)

pulguita said:


> Barca obviously possession and Real is relentless at the counter however at the foundation all the players have been taught the Spanish way.  I do not believe you can convert a player that has been direct their entire life to all the sudden become possession oriented.  A possession player can change on a dime.  They have the technical foundation to play any style.  It is much easier to tell someone to just go rather than settle in support the ball and then move (way over simplified) but I think you get the point.  That is why the possession game at the younger ages sets the foundation for down the road.  If you have the tools you can play any style.  The US has to play a style that fits the players they have.  That's why we truly can't play a 4-3-3 and all its real variations because we do not have midfielders that can do it (we do) they are just not valued and we don't have coaches that know it to implement it.


I agree to much variation of coaching styles in the United States.

For example: There is a power 5 conference head coach who also happens to be a YNT assistant head coach.  The team plays a 4-3-3 and doesn't like the outside defenders to attack with the ball or take players on in their offensive half.  The coach says it's to risky!


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## Legendary FC (Sep 14, 2017)

offthecrossbar said:


> I agree to much variation of coaching styles in the United States.
> 
> For example: There is a power 5 conference head coach who also happens to be a YNT assistant head coach.  The team plays a 4-3-3 and doesn't like the outside defenders to attack with the ball or take players on in their offensive half.  The coach says it's to risky!


That is pretty crazy.


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## pulguita (Sep 15, 2017)

offthecrossbar said:


> I agree to much variation of coaching styles in the United States.
> 
> For example: There is a power 5 conference head coach who also happens to be a YNT assistant head coach.  The team plays a 4-3-3 and doesn't like the outside defenders to attack with the ball or take players on in their offensive half.  The coach says it's to risky!


Perfect example of my point: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2733132-gareth-bale-at-a-crossroads-in-his-real-madrid-career?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=world-football
Bale is arguably a world class player and has been having a difficult time fitting in at Real Madrid.  I think it would have been even worse trying to fit in with Barca yet look at how Suarez has fit in coming from Liverpool.  I think it all goes back to the foundation of the training.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 19, 2017)

Dos Equis said:


> We have the deepest pool of talented players in the world. We are being out-coached.


You could say we are also losing the chess match. I have seen our ladies outplayed because of a lack of creativity and being out thought on the field.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 19, 2017)

pulguita said:


> Residential academies are bs.  How well have they worked for the men?  Here is the problem.  Every Tom, Dick and Harry throughout the US has there own philosophy of how they think the game should be played.  There is no National Style.  All the Euro countries have a style, their players play in their clubs that promote that style so when they come together it is natural.  Why do you think Spain is once again on the rise.  They have replaced a generation of players with up and coming new guys that are phenoms.  But for the most part they play in the domestic leagues.  I believe this is why Brazil and Argentina have somewhat struggled on the big stage.  Their best players are leaving South America for Europe and are immersed in different styles from the EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga etc.  Then they have to come back and play cohesively.  Until the US can decide what it is and how to play it will always be a cf.  I will repeat again.  Give me the best SoCal players with a quality coach that trains 2-3 times a week and have normal lives and they will beat any team that US Soccer puts together at the various age groups.  They will also take on the world.


Late to this conversation...I agree with you that a style must be established. You mentioned Spain and like them France is another country whose federation aligned the entire country in a style/method. It is has been in place for roughly 15 years and it has worked. If we look at their women's program France plays some great soccer and are on the rise in a dramatic fashion. If we look at their men's team, all I can is "wow" the quality of players is to deep to mention.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 19, 2017)

offthecrossbar said:


> I agree to much variation of coaching styles in the United States.
> 
> For example: There is a power 5 conference head coach who also happens to be a YNT assistant head coach.  The team plays a 4-3-3 and doesn't like the outside defenders to attack with the ball or take players on in their offensive half.  The coach says it's to risky!


It's hard to believe that a coach who runs that formation does not want their outside defenders attacking from the flanks. That setup was partially built to allow them to do so.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 19, 2017)

pulguita said:


> Perfect example of my point: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2733132-gareth-bale-at-a-crossroads-in-his-real-madrid-career?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=world-football
> Bale is arguably a world class player and has been having a difficult time fitting in at Real Madrid.  I think it would have been even worse trying to fit in with Barca yet look at how Suarez has fit in coming from Liverpool.  I think it all goes back to the foundation of the training.


Not to deviate from the primary focus. Gary Lineker went to play in Spain for Barcelona some 25 plus years ago. He is one of the few Brit's that learned the language and accommodated his style of play to mesh with his new clubs style. His tenure there was a success and was praised by the club and its fans.


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## MakeAPlay (Sep 26, 2017)

http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/u-s-u-16-girls-national-team-storms-past-germany-4-0-in-friendly/

It looks like 3 SoCal girls had good days.  Two of them future Bruins and one a Trojan!


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## GKDad65 (Sep 26, 2017)

Are we doing a good job of identifying the best players ?  I look at the "call ups" and the "ODP" and other "id" camps, etc...  And I don't see the best players from the best teams being "identified".
Is this a consequence of our pay-to-play environment?

I don't think we're looking in the right places for the right players.
I love our professional leagues but they're just not up to the world level, yet.


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## MakeAPlay (Sep 26, 2017)

GKDad65 said:


> Are we doing a good job of identifying the best players ?  I look at the "call ups" and the "ODP" and other "id" camps, etc...  And I don't see the best players from the best teams being "identified".
> Is this a consequence of our pay-to-play environment?
> 
> I don't think we're looking in the right places for the right players.
> I love our professional leagues but they're just not up to the world level, yet.


I definitely don't think that we get all of the best players.  I would call it 50/50 or 60/40.  The real issue (elephant in the room) is the coaching.  Until the address that we will continue to tread water or lose ground to the more established footballing countries in the world with far superior coaching.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 27, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I definitely don't think that we get all of the best players.  I would call it 50/50 or 60/40.  The real issue (elephant in the room) is the coaching.  Until the address that we will continue to tread water or lose ground to the more established footballing countries in the world with far superior coaching.


Gotta agree with coaching. I also think identifying a style of play through a curriculum that starts at the youngest ages to the National team is needed. I kinda feel that the best players are not chosen has to do with the current stlye of play employed and stereotypical mold of player that is selected. Though there are few national players that in my mind do not fit the mold and have made an impact.


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 18, 2017)

https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/u17-u18-wnts-to-hold-joint-cali-camps_aid43082

Congrats to the 4 SoCal players on the list.


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## Striker17 (Oct 18, 2017)

Interesting really no changes from 15 onward. Always the same names...


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## Soccer43 (Oct 18, 2017)

Yep, apparently they can pick the best when the girls are 13 years old and there is not much change or development from any of the other millions of soccer players  after that.  What is the purpose again of the DA if they are not going to find any other players on those 70+ DA teams.  If they already have their group why didn't they leave the rest of youth soccer environment alone and let the girls stay on their original teams years ago before the age split


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 26, 2017)

http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/u-s-u-15-girls-national-team-heads-to-germany-for-training-camp-friendlies/

Congrats to the 5 SoCal players and 7 California players overall out of 20 total players selected for this trip!


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## Soccer43 (Oct 26, 2017)

Glad to see she is sticking within the 2003 age for the most part - the past camps seem to have included a big percentage of underage players at the camps and it seems like there might be many high level players in those older years that have not been invited to those camps


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