# GunScare @ Albion Cup?



## PruritusAniFC (Jan 12, 2020)

Just saw mobs of people running towards the parking lot and the farm fields across the street in Temecula. Many fields and games are canceled, kids and parents hiding under cars and behind trees. Some say a fight broke out and someone branished a “gun”. Does anyone have any information? I hope everyone is ok, police helicopter is out and PD searching cars. What two teams were fighting? The man with the gun was caught on video....So sad to see all players crying and scared.


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## met61 (Jan 12, 2020)

PruritusAniFC said:


> Just saw mobs of people running towards the parking lot and the farm fields across the street in Temecula. Many fields and games are canceled, kids and parents hiding under cars and behind trees. Some say a fight broke out and someone branished a “gun”. Does anyone have any information? I hope everyone is ok, police helicopter is out and PD searching cars. What two teams were fighting? The man with the gun was caught on video....So sad to see all players crying and scared.


Very unfortunate, but not surprising. Things have been progressing in this direction for sometime. Hate to see where it's heading.


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## BIGD (Jan 12, 2020)

We were there.  It was terrifying for about 5
minutes but felt much longer.  Total chaos.  Terrible experience for our kids to go through.   I don’t know details or have confirmation of any of this but heard that there were parents fighting and people thought someone had a gun and everyone started running and the news spread quickly.  We heard there was never a gun. The tournament ended.


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## KONI (Jan 12, 2020)

Was there as well....saw everyone running from the field next us....heard people yelling shooter and took off with everyone else to the parking lot...very surreal and scary...players very shaken....need to have police presence mandatory at these tournaments...not sure of the details of what really went down....but you here shooter...run and ask questions later


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## Stryprod (Jan 12, 2020)

Two boy's team,  U11, finals game. Very heated game and in the last 5 minutes a fight breaks out between 2 boys from opposite teams on the field. Younger kid spectator, assume a sibling, runs from sideline and out onto field and attacks player. Sidelines empty out like a dugout and mass pandemonium ensues. At one point an adult spectator pulls out a camo bag and walks onto the field flexing and walking back and forth while holding his hand in the bag. A few adults near him start saying no no as he walks around. He turns to go the other direction and someone yells gun, people run and it spread like fire.

Kids crying, parents screaming for their kids. Disgusting


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## Wez (Jan 12, 2020)

This is why aliens don't visit us...


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## Veritas (Jan 12, 2020)

Did this guy get arrested? This is just as low as it gets. I could understand the yelling and trash talk but this is just taking things too far. To even pretend to have a gun is just as bad. There should be a law to arrest anyone that pretends or says gun/mass shooter etc absolutely unacceptable especially in front of kids. This could have psychological effects on them.


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## timbuck (Jan 12, 2020)

Boys u11or  2011? 
Which bracket?
Should be a permanent ban for all further participation for that family. Maybe even for both complete teams if a bench clearing brawl breaks out.


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## greekgirl (Jan 12, 2020)

I had just finished up refereeing and was standing near the field Marshall tent when we were told there was an active shooter and to run. Afterwards it got me really thinking about what a target referee’s are and what is keeping a pissed off parent or coach from retaliating this way. Earlier today we sent off a coach with a red card.... it’s absolutely frightening to think about. Seeing children crying returning to the fields to pickup backpacks and other items left behind during the massive run out. The realization of how isolated we were in Temecula.


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## Stryprod (Jan 12, 2020)

Veritas said:


> Did this guy get arrested? This is just as low as it gets. I could understand the yelling and trash talk but this is just taking things too far. To even pretend to have a gun is just as bad. There should be a law to arrest anyone that pretends or says gun/mass shooter etc absolutely unacceptable especially in front of kids. This could have psychological effects on them.


Police had detained an individual, but unsure if it was the individual in question or someone else. Police were asking had anyone actually seen a weapon, so assume none had been found. There was worry that if a weapon was present it could have been handed off or tossed when the individual ran. Let's hope there was not and it was just a weak garbage human being. 

Mom's yelling and screaming for their children, kids crying, people running or lying on the ground, dad's pulling out their half-naked children from porta-potties and running, kids alone in the parking lot yelling for their parents as cars are flying by.... who knows the effect.


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## Veritas (Jan 12, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> Police had detained an individual, but unsure if it was the individual in question or someone else. Police were asking had anyone actually seen a weapon, so assume none had been found. There was worry that if a weapon was present it could have been handed off or tossed when the individual ran. Let's hope there was not and it was just a weak garbage human being.
> 
> Mom's yelling and screaming for their children, kids crying, people running or lying on the ground, dad's pulling out their half-naked children from porta-potties and running, kids alone in the parking lot yelling for their parents as cars are flying by.... who knows the effect.


New to SoCal but never heard of anything like this happening before elsewhere. Hopefully this is just a one time fluke and never happens again. I understand things can get heated but never ever should it reach such level. These heated altercations are happening mostly with new parents to soccer with young kids plying u10 and younger. There must be better education measures about the dangers of ”new soccer parent rage syndrome” and best ways to deal with it. You even see it happening here on the sub-forums, u10 and younger.


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## Stryprod (Jan 12, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Boys u11or  2011?
> Which bracket?
> Should be a permanent ban for all further participation for that family. Maybe even for both complete teams if a bench clearing brawl breaks out.


Boy's U11, or B2009.

Wholeheartedly agree on suspensions and bans. Fighting players need suspensions, family permanent ban(s), temp to possible permanent ban for the team of the offending adult individual should he not be found and arrested, and of course the individual arrested.


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## Alexa (Jan 12, 2020)

Azteca vs Albion.  2009’s


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## gkrent (Jan 12, 2020)

Hopefully Albion will make a statement


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## watfly (Jan 12, 2020)

gkrent said:


> Hopefully Albion will make a statement


Don't hold your breath.


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## javiecua03 (Jan 12, 2020)

It’s ridiculous !  We were watching the legends vs la galaxy oc 09 , when out no where we see a mass of people running toward us everyone froze until we heard shooter. Everyone bolted to the back parking lot. Why would anyone pretend to have gun or even bring one to a kids tournament ! What goes through their mind, I hope that team does get banned or they press charges to that individual. Horrible experience for my  8yr and my 5 yr to have to run for the life’s. Horrible experience for the kids in general , a lot kids crying trying to find their parents,  kids come to these event to enjoy themself to have good sane competition. Not to experience something like this


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 12, 2020)

We were there very close to where the brawl took place. It was very scary for everyone around, especially for the kids to witness.  We also were part of a group that fled to the nearest outlet when it appeared to escalate. 
There were lots of children crying and parents screaming - it was pure chaos. 
As a result, I now have children that don't want to sleep alone tonight


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## oh canada (Jan 12, 2020)

something similar happened in Canada last year...youth soccer is outta control...makes me wonder whether I would do it all over again if my kids were now 5-6 years old.



			https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/newton-athletic-park-imitation-weapons-scare-whitecaps-fc-adidas-cup-1.5078756


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## Dominic (Jan 12, 2020)

Event Schedule
					






					events.gotsport.com
				




I see many finals with no score.


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## Stryprod (Jan 12, 2020)

Dominic said:


> Event Schedule
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is correct. The incident occurred in the last ~5 mins. Pandemonium ensues, and people flee over 20 fields without finishing games plus teams waiting to start the next round - you get the scope.

Shame, as there were many teams that worked so hard to be denied the chance to play.


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## zebrafish (Jan 12, 2020)

While the gun situation certainly isn't the organizers' fault, we were at this tournament this weekend and it was poorly organized and I'll voice my opinion that our team doesn't play here again.

My main beef is that the traffic/parking situation is plain awful. Getting in and out of there on a single-lane road for so many cars is the first problem. We had early games both days and the parking staff were completely unorganized and there was extremely poor signage and traffic management. I had to walk probably 3/4 of a mile to get from my parking spot to the field where my child was playing. Completely unacceptable. And to think I paid $10 to have these privileges.

Beyond this, the fields are poor quality and a definite level below places like the OC great park and Silverlakes. Most are 90% dirt and rock hard. Many had potholes filled with sand. There were a bunch where you couldn't even see the sidelines. The port-a-potties had no soap/sanitizer and needed to be emptied. Inside the race track, there were lines with 10+ people waiting for the port-a-potties. 

And Sunday, our team had a "required" in person check-in so that they can take photos of the team to try and sell us? Gee, thanks.

The gun episode is a sad ending to an event that I'm hoping to avoid in the future.


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## gkrent (Jan 12, 2020)

zebrafish said:


> While the gun situation certainly isn't the organizers' fault, we were at this tournament this weekend and it was poorly organized and I'll voice my opinion that our team doesn't play here again.
> 
> My main beef is that the traffic/parking situation is plain awful. Getting in and out of there on a single-lane road for so many cars is the first problem. We had early games both days and the parking staff were completely unorganized and there was extremely poor signage and traffic management. I had to walk probably 3/4 of a mile to get from my parking spot to the field where my child was playing. Completely unacceptable. And to think I paid $10 to have these privileges.
> 
> ...


are you for real?


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## Spectator (Jan 12, 2020)

gkrent said:


> are you for real?


Zebrafish’s assessment is spot on.


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## Dof3 (Jan 12, 2020)

I am not sure that people who were not there are appreciating what happened.  My daughter was on the field at the time.  A rush of people came pouring onto our side of the complex saying there is a active shooter - RUN!!   My kid and some of her teammates ran over the road, through the parking lot, jumped fences and hid in the yard of a house.  I had other kids there and, like many others, got separated from my daughter.  She is running with no idea if her parents were dead.  She is 12.  People hiding in cars, behind trees.  Parents yelling the names of their kids in the parking lot, trying to find them.  And Albion just sent around en email about what a great weekend it was with a footnote about an unfortunate incident and a harmless verbal threat.  I don’t think that quite captures hundreds of kids running into the surrounding area in fear for their lives, or parents in sheer panic about what happened to their kids.  Albion should be ashamed - not because of the actions of an idiot parent - but certainly for its own terrible communication.  It is deeply disrespectful to what those kids endured today.  I would be embarrassed to belong to that club and somebody should be held accountable for how they are communicating about this.


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## timbuck (Jan 12, 2020)

Sounds like they didn’t know how to handle something like this.  I don’t think many clubs or youth sports venues have prepared for something like this to happen. 
But times are changing.  I’d say we can expect costs to go way up if we need to have police officers on hand and expected detailed and rehearsed disaster preparedness plans.


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## blam (Jan 12, 2020)

Can someone post video on it?


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## Stryprod (Jan 12, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> I am not sure that people who were not there are appreciating what happened.  My daughter was on the field at the time.  A rush of people came pouring onto our side of the complex saying there is a active shooter - RUN!!   My kid and some of her teammates ran over the road, through the parking lot, jumped fences and hid in the yard of a house.  I had other kids there and, like many others, got separated from my daughter.  She is running with no idea if her parents were dead.  She is 12.  People hiding in cars, behind trees.  Parents yelling the names of their kids in the parking lot, trying to find them.  And Albion just sent around en email about what a great weekend it was with a footnote about an unfortunate incident and a harmless verbal threat.  I don’t think that quite captures hundreds of kids running into the surrounding area in fear for their lives, or parents in sheer panic about what happened to their kids.  Albion should be ashamed - not because of the actions of an idiot parent - but certainly for its own terrible communication.  It is deeply disrespectful to what those kids endured today.  I would be embarrassed to belong to that club and somebody should be held accountable for how they are communicating about this.


Words don't convey the emotions you're feeling in those moments. Thank goodness it turned out to not be what so many feared.

Would you be willing to share what Albion put out?


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## Stryprod (Jan 12, 2020)

blam said:


> Can someone post video on it?


My hope is the "official" video camera on pole at the game was recording to identify all involved.

A good quality photo of the individual has been shared with the Riverside Sherriff's Department as well as tournament officials. 

Between that and knowing the team, hopefully they find this individual (if not already) and prosecute to the full extent.


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## javiecua03 (Jan 13, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> I am not sure that people who were not there are appreciating what happened.  My daughter was on the field at the time.  A rush of people came pouring onto our side of the complex saying there is a active shooter - RUN!!   My kid and some of her teammates ran over the road, through the parking lot, jumped fences and hid in the yard of a house.  I had other kids there and, like many others, got separated from my daughter.  She is running with no idea if her parents were dead.  She is 12.  People hiding in cars, behind trees.  Parents yelling the names of their kids in the parking lot, trying to find them.  And Albion just sent around en email about what a great weekend it was with a footnote about an unfortunate incident and a harmless verbal threat.  I don’t think that quite captures hundreds of kids running into the surrounding area in fear for their lives, or parents in sheer panic about what happened to their kids.  Albion should be ashamed - not because of the actions of an idiot parent - but certainly for its own terrible communication.  It is deeply disrespectful to what those kids endured today.  I would be embarrassed to belong to that club and somebody should be held accountable for how they are communicating about this.


So it was from the Albion parents who decide to pull out a gun wow


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## Stryprod (Jan 13, 2020)

javiecua03 said:


> So it was from the Albion parents who decide to pull out a gun wow


To be clear, at least as of earlier, no weapon was found.  

Not sure which team the individual was with other than he was on spectator side left.


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## focomoso (Jan 13, 2020)

Veritas said:


> New to SoCal but never heard of anything like this happening before elsewhere. Hopefully this is just a one time fluke and never happens again. I understand things can get heated but never ever should it reach such level. These heated altercations are happening mostly with new parents to soccer with young kids plying u10 and younger. There must be better education measures about the dangers of ”new soccer parent rage syndrome” and best ways to deal with it. You even see it happening here on the sub-forums, u10 and younger.


Something similar happened at Villa Parke in Pasadena when my son was Ulittle. There were shots fired and the coaches shouted for all the kids to get down as the shooters ran across the field. They turned out to be local gang kids and had nothing to do with the game.


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## greekgirl (Jan 13, 2020)

zebrafish said:


> While the gun situation certainly isn't the organizers' fault, we were at this tournament this weekend and it was poorly organized and I'll voice my opinion that our team doesn't play here again.
> 
> My main beef is that the traffic/parking situation is plain awful. Getting in and out of there on a single-lane road for so many cars is the first problem. We had early games both days and the parking staff were completely unorganized and there was extremely poor signage and traffic management. I had to walk probably 3/4 of a mile to get from my parking spot to the field where my child was playing. Completely unacceptable. And to think I paid $10 to have these privileges.
> 
> ...


I agree, I was at the upper fields (9 fields ) with only 8 porta potties. At 11am Saturday some were already completely full and none had toilet paper. Not a water station with soap or sanitizer to be found. Sunday there was toilet paper however by 2 pm half the potties were locked as they were overfilled. Throw on top the scheduling of the games with only 5 minutes between games for bracket games.... ridiculous. Go back to the SoCal Sports Complex  where this tournament in prior years was played.


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## pewpew (Jan 13, 2020)

focomoso said:


> Something similar happened at Villa Parke in Pasadena when my son was Ulittle. There were shots fired and the coaches shouted for all the kids to get down as the shooters ran across the field. They turned out to be local gang kids and had nothing to do with the game.


Villa Park is total hood area of Pasadena. Not uncommon to be there during training and see Pasadena PD with 5-6 locals against the fence or proned out on the floor. Being there for training at night is even worse.


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## FernandoFromNationalCity (Jan 13, 2020)

Temecula police investigating reports of man brandishing a gun during youth soccer tournament
					

10News has learned that one of the teams is from Chula Vista.




					www.10news.com


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## 46n2 (Jan 13, 2020)

4th big fight in Sand Diego area in the last 1.5 years , maybe its the people....  Glad everyone is ok, be thankful it didn't end up worst.  Gallaway Downs is a mud fest, low level barely stable event center, always was and always will be .  Honestly you cannot blame the club, what happen is out of their hands, but now we know to invite first responders , maybe have them do something like park a few squad cars around the area and let kids take pictures with them and the fire trucks , make it like a casual thing to introduce kids to police and firemen trade and in case anything happens they are right there as a deterrent.


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## BruceDern (Jan 13, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> To be clear, at least as of earlier, no weapon was found.
> 
> Not sure which team the individual was with other than he was on spectator side left.


First, let me blame the Referee crew for even letting this get out of control. Cards need to be sent out early and game temperature needs to be managed. When I reviewed the video of the game I can see it was a individuals on the Azteca side and on the Albion South Bay B2009 fighting.......CalSouth needs to get serious and Ban both these Teams from anymore tournaments. We need to start to eliminate the "Ghetto Nature" out of our tournaments. New parents to our game need education on sideline behaviour and conflict resolution. Real Sad.


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## Veritas (Jan 13, 2020)

Temecula police investigating reports of man brandishing a gun during youth soccer tournament
					

10News has learned that one of the teams is from Chula Vista.




					www.10news.com


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## timbuck (Jan 13, 2020)

Very scary and not trying to make light of what happened. But reminds me of this (nsfw due to language) movie clip from “White Men Can’t Jump”


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## Stryprod (Jan 13, 2020)

BruceDern said:


> First, let me blame the Referee crew for even letting this get out of control. Cards need to be sent out early and game temperature needs to be managed. When I reviewed the video of the game I can see it was a individuals on the Azteca side and on the Albion South Bay B2009 fighting.......CalSouth needs to get serious and Ban both these Teams from anymore tournaments. We need to start to eliminate the "Ghetto Nature" out of our tournaments. New parents to our game need education on sideline behaviour and conflict resolution. Real Sad.


Just like it was her fault for what she wore right? Blaming the refs.... you've got to be kidding me.

Whether a perfectly or imperfectly called game, this behavior is not acceptable and falls 100% on the parents and their children. If you're looking to blame anyone else, blame the coaches, as this behavior does not magically manifest out of thin air and it's on them to manage their players.

*CalSouth needs to take strong action against these players and the teams. Both teams are to play in Presidents for State Cup... both should be disallowed at a minimum.*


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## BruceDern (Jan 13, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> Just like it was her fault for what she wore right? Blaming the refs.... you've got to be kidding me.
> 
> Whether a perfectly or imperfectly called game, this behavior is not acceptable and falls 100% on the parents and their children. If you're looking to blame anyone else, blame the coaches, as this behavior does not magically manifest out of thin air and it's on them to manage their players.
> 
> *CalSouth needs to take strong action against these players and the teams. Both teams are to play in Presidents for State Cup... both should be disallowed at a minimum.*


I agree with what your saying


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## oh canada (Jan 13, 2020)

While never afraid to blame clubs for diminishing the youth soccer landscape, blaming Albion for much of the above, including this incident is misdirected.  Put more blame on Galway Downs.  They are the host venue and responsible for everything from parking, porta-potties, fields, etc.  Guessing Albion chose this venue over O'side, Polo Fields and Silverlakes because it saved some money.  Well, you get what you pay for...guessing Albion might be having the same concerns as some of the parents here on the field.

As for the incident.  Albion also suffers from name association with a satellite club that isn't the main club--Albion South (Chula Vista).  As Surf, Albion and others expand their empire into 5-10+ other locations, the control of the parents, coaches and teams becomes a lot more difficult.  The brand gets tarnished by others not under the main roof.


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## Fact (Jan 13, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> Just like it was her fault for what she wore right? Blaming the refs.... you've got to be kidding me.
> 
> Whether a perfectly or imperfectly called game, this behavior is not acceptable and falls 100% on the parents and their children. If you're looking to blame anyone else, blame the coaches, as this behavior does not magically manifest out of thin air and it's on them to manage their players.
> 
> *CalSouth needs to take strong action against these players and the teams. Both teams are to play in Presidents for State Cup... both should be disallowed at a minimum.*


I agree completely.  Many coaches brush off parent and player bad behavior, especially during a final of rivals. Sorry but it is never acceptable to say or do anything to the ref or opposing side.  

This behavior does not happen out of the blue and there needs to be a zero tolerance policy.  

We had a bad parent on one of my kiddos team at U11 or 12.  The coach refused to do anything but the guy was a timebomb. Anytime his kid was carded he lost it.  We parents tried to keep him in line by walking him all the way to his car after games but it did not always work.  He angrily approached refs a few times and we had to get in front of him.  Good parents should not have to do this.

The issue I take with Ginns is that he said Calsouth needs to do something. Well it appears some of his parents rushed the field too.  The only parent I would excuse is the parent whose kid got punched by the older sibling, but then again I really hope he did not punch a minor.  What is Ginns going to do to his parents?


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## timbuck (Jan 13, 2020)

Put the parents on the same side as the team/coaches.  Impossible to control your parents from 80 yards away.


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## Supermodel56 (Jan 13, 2020)

Fact said:


> I agree completely.  Many coaches brush off parent and player bad behavior, especially during a final of rivals. Sorry but it is never acceptable to say or do anything to the ref or opposing side.
> 
> This behavior does not happen out of the blue and there needs to be a zero tolerance policy.
> 
> ...


I think you need to get your Facts straight - first off this was an Albion South Bay team vs some other LA team. To say that CalSouth needs to do something doesn’t exclude the club from doing something as well, but as we all know, this type of behavior happens at other tournaments and events as well - which falls into the CalSouth responsibility area. My kid was up in Silverlakes this weekend and things were getting heated on the adjacent field as well.

i agree with Canada, Albion likely booked this venue long in advance - probably werent aware the field conditions would be so bad. Parking at Galway is always terrible.

Finally, after reading the stories, etc... it sounded like the guy didn’t really have a gun and not to make excuses, but my guess, is in his mind he was trying to find a way to disperse the crowd/brawl. I’m pretty sure he didn’t realize it would throw the entire tournament into a mass panic/stampede.

I think the refs on this page who are denying any responsibility for this is exactly the problem. It’s their job to keep the game under control and they are the first line of defense. They have the power to stop play, to eject players, etc... if you let cheap fouls slide and do nothing, what do you think the other player is gonna do? Just take it? Of course they’ll retaliate. Your paid job is to protect the integrity of the game and the players. I’ve seen great refs who could tell parents were getting upset on the sidelines and would just kindly acknowledge to them that they see what’s going on and have it under control -usually this calms the parent down immediately - just being acknowledged.

not to say these situations are entirely the refs fault, but they certainly play a role and have a certain level of responsibility to deescalate situations.


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## peleball (Jan 13, 2020)

Police yourselves and your own kids.  Stop asking the police to do the job for you.  Whats next?  TSA security checkpoint.  

Its a simple concept that has work so many years.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 13, 2020)

Supermodel56 said:


> I think you need to get your Facts straight - first off this was an Albion South Bay team vs some other LA team. To say that CalSouth needs to do something doesn’t exclude the club from doing something as well, but as we all know, this type of behavior happens at other tournaments and events as well - which falls into the CalSouth responsibility area. My kid was up in Silverlakes this weekend and things were getting heated on the adjacent field as well.
> 
> i agree with Canada, Albion likely booked this venue long in advance - probably werent aware the field conditions would be so bad. Parking at Galway is always terrible.
> 
> ...


We were watching the game and the refs had it managed, there were about 4 yellow cards given including to the coach.  The sidelines were yelling at them for every call, the coaches were yelling at him but they maintained the game. Immediately when the sideline sibling charged the field all refs ran to diffuse the situation but then the entire sideline erupted onto the field.  The coaches ran in to also try to break it up, and eventually the center ref managed to get out of the scuffle, blew his whistle called the game and walked away.  What more could he have done?


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## Fact (Jan 13, 2020)

Supermodel56 said:


> I think you need to get your Facts straight - first off this was an Albion South Bay team vs some other LA team. To say that CalSouth needs to do something doesn’t exclude the club from doing something as well, but as we all know, this type of behavior happens at other tournaments and events as well - which falls into the CalSouth responsibility area. My kid was up in Silverlakes this weekend and things were getting heated on the adjacent field as well.
> 
> i agree with Canada, Albion likely booked this venue long in advance - probably werent aware the field conditions would be so bad. Parking at Galway is always terrible.
> 
> ...


Get your facts straight. To say Ginns has no control over Albion South is a joke.  Blaming the refs is a poor excuse for not taking personal responsibility for yourself and those that are directly under your control/ability to get rid of -bad parents and players.


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## 46n2 (Jan 13, 2020)

peleball said:


> Police yourselves and your own kids.  Stop asking the police to do the job for you.  Whats next?  TSA security checkpoint.
> 
> Its a simple concept that has work so many years.


Go away dummy , this is way over your head obviously.


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## Poconos (Jan 13, 2020)

i remember one year, for reasons i'll never understand, it became "fashionable" to wears clothes with "thug life" written on them.   kinda sez it all. 



BruceDern said:


> First, let me blame the Referee crew for even letting this get out of control. Cards need to be sent out early and game temperature needs to be managed. When I reviewed the video of the game I can see it was a individuals on the Azteca side and on the Albion South Bay B2009 fighting.......CalSouth needs to get serious and Ban both these Teams from anymore tournaments. We need to start to eliminate the "Ghetto Nature" out of our tournaments. New parents to our game need education on sideline behaviour and conflict resolution. Real Sad.





blam said:


> Can someone post video on it?


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## jpeter (Jan 13, 2020)

Do the events and venues need security people nowadays?  Was there management people around handling the situation? 

Heard there was at least one law enforcement spectator carrying a weapon which they may have had a permit  for but chaos ensued because people saw the weapon.


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## Stryprod (Jan 13, 2020)

Whether there was someone like a law enforcement officer that had an accidental exposure, this was NOT what caused the panic. It was 100% the individual with the camo backpack. An image of him is now on the news site URL below. 

This image does not do justice to the behavior that was in the moment. This individual either had a weapon or was doing everything in his power to pretend he did. Adults around him saying "no no" and "don't do it" and you can understand this was beyond verbal and was non-verbal as well.









						Temecula police investigating reports of man brandishing a gun during youth soccer tournament
					

10News has learned that one of the teams is from Chula Vista.




					www.10news.com


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## younothat (Jan 13, 2020)

jpeter said:


> Do the events and venues need security people nowadays?  Was there management people around handling the situation?
> 
> Heard there was at least one law enforcement spectator carrying a weapon which they may have had a permit  for but chaos ensued because people saw the weapon.


These things get so jumbled with different stuff but the person in question was detained by a spectator who happen to be FBI or law enforcement until local authorities showed up. The person is question was going for his cell phone in a bag and not a weapon (none was found) so was released.








						Temecula police investigating reports of man brandishing a gun during youth soccer tournament
					

10News has learned that one of the teams is from Chula Vista.




					www.10news.com


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## tabletop (Jan 13, 2020)

Poconos said:


> i remember one year, for reasons i'll never understand, it became "fashionable" to wears clothes with "thug life" written on them.   kinda sez it all.


I wouldn’t go around bragging that you don’t know why Thug Life is/was popular.  My 12 year old daughter wasn’t even a thought in the 90s and she knows exactly what/who Thug Life references.  Tupac also has absolutely no tangential relationship to youth soccer.  A small group of parents or siblings deciding to go to blows over a youth soccer game speaks more to controlling one’s own emotions than to rap music or anything else that you may not comprehend.


----------



## GeekKid (Jan 13, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Put the parents on the same side as the team/coaches.  Impossible to control your parents from 80 yards away.


Especially at the younger age groups.  We had a couple of tournaments years ago that had the format of parents on the same side as team/coaches and it had a startling effect of parents mouthing off to the refs.


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## Stryprod (Jan 13, 2020)

younothat said:


> These things get so jumbled with different stuff but the person in question was detained by a spectator who happen to be FBI or law enforcement until local authorities showed up. The person is question was going for his cell phone in a bag and not a weapon (none was found) so was released.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If the individual did not have a gun, I can tell you the individual was doing EVERYTHING in their power to pretend they did.

You do not keep your hand in the bag for 2 minutes acting and moving in a threatening manner if you are looking for your phone. He knew what he was doing and everyone around got the message.


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## watfly (Jan 13, 2020)

What a very scary incident.  Hopefully the parents and kids can put the brain stain of running in fear for their lives behind them.

Unfortunately, this will just be swept under the rug by Albion just like the incidents with their coach that was asking for sexual favors from his teen girl players.  In fact, Albion is already claiming that the young fan that ran on the field to fight was from the LA team as if that absolves them from any responsibility for the incident (per 10News report).  A witness claims it was an Albion fan or sibling that came on the field.  Does it matter?  Nope, not one bit.  It takes two to tango and as host of the tourney their teams should be beyond reproach.  You can't take all of the benefits of a tourney ($$$) without the responsibilities.  This wasn't some minor scuffle, parents and kids were actually running and hiding for fear for their lives.  This is an issue that should be addressed and not dismissed as "there really was no gun".  If they (NG) had any amount of integrity, at a minimum they would refund the teams that were at the facility at the time of the incident and the teams that had their final game cancelled...in addition to issuing an apology.

If Calsouth actually cared for the safety of the players they should come down hard on both teams and their should also be repercussions for both clubs.  It is a Calsouth sanctioned tournament after all.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Albion is 100% culpable (nor is Azteca without significant responsibility), but this sort of crap is beyond unacceptable.  Albion and Calsouth should set the example and "do the right thing", maybe, just maybe, it might prevent an incident like this in the future.


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## peleball (Jan 13, 2020)

46n2 said:


> Go away dummy , this is way over your head obviously.


Maybe this type of event is not for everyone.  This is not a mandatory event that will help you in life.  Its a extra curricular activities.  There are several special events or activities for mentally challenge individual such as yourself,which is not a bad thing   You should try that route.


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## oh canada (Jan 13, 2020)

Thankfully nobody injured or killed, so the resolution is fairly simple:

1 - the players fighting -- if there was fighting, these 2 should be banned from State Cup - Cal South and the club(s) responsible for doing so.  If a kid ran from the sideline and threw punches, there should be charges filed against that kid.  Juvenile misdemeanor but some time cleaning soccer tournament porta-potties in the future would be an age appropriate consequence if under 16yrs.

2 - if the facts bear out (talk to the refs) that this team's sideline was unruly (more than one guy) then the entire team should be banned from State Cup - Cal South responsible for this one.

3 - If the team is a non-Albion team, then as Albion Club, I would ban the other club from any other future tournaments they hold for a time certain -- maybe next year or the next 2 years.  If Albion South provoked then Albion SD needs to remove those players n families off the team. 

4 - If other teams didn't like the tournament, don't play in it next year and don't give your money to Albion, but don't go crying for a refund because your kid missed out on a medal.

5 - Clubs holding tournaments at Galway Downs (State Cup too?) should be aware that the facility is a "poor man's" Silverlakes - let the buyer beware (not that Silverlakes et al. don't have their own parking, traffic and other problems as they certainly do).

6 - The camo backpack guy - lifetime ban from all CalSouth soccer events.  (assuming there is enough witness proof that he was the cause) and a public shaming with his name released via media.

At some point families are going to say enough is enough with this youth soccer privatization and club craziness and start to look to other sports without all the drama, time and money commitments.

I look forward to watching a REAL championship game tonight that has REAL meaning for its players and families.  LSU looks tough to beat.


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## watfly (Jan 13, 2020)

oh canada said:


> Thankfully nobody injured or killed, so the resolution is fairly simple:
> 
> 1 - the players fighting -- if there was fighting, these 2 should be banned from State Cup - Cal South and the club(s) responsible for doing so.  If a kid ran from the sideline and threw punches, there should be charges filed against that kid.  Juvenile misdemeanor but some time cleaning soccer tournament porta-potties in the future would be an age appropriate consequence if under 16yrs.
> 
> ...


Excellent suggestions.  I would just add that the best way to get a club's attention is to target their pocketbook, that's what most DOC's care about most.  I doubt Albion leadership is going to shed a tear for one of their affiliate teams being banned.  I would suspend this tournament for next year and pull Calsouth sanctioning from Albion Cup for this year.  Any Azteca tournaments should be suspended as well.


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## BruceDern (Jan 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> Excellent suggestions.  I would just add that the best way to get a club's attention is to target their pocketbook, that's what most DOC's care about most.  I doubt Albion leadership is going to shed a tear for one of their affiliate teams being banned.  I would suspend this tournament for next year and pull Calsouth sanctioning from Albion Cup for this year.  Any Azteca tournaments should be suspended as well.


Where is Team Azteca located in California? Or are they from Tijuana?


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## Goforgoal (Jan 13, 2020)

BruceDern said:


> Where is Team Azteca located in California? Or are they from Tijuana?


The coach location says Corona, and the club phone is a 626 area code, so probably somewhere around the SGV or neaby area. Basically LA.


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## baldref (Jan 13, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> Just like it was her fault for what she wore right? Blaming the refs.... you've got to be kidding me.
> 
> Whether a perfectly or imperfectly called game, this behavior is not acceptable and falls 100% on the parents and their children. If you're looking to blame anyone else, blame the coaches, as this behavior does not magically manifest out of thin air and it's on them to manage their players.
> 
> *CalSouth needs to take strong action against these players and the teams. Both teams are to play in Presidents for State Cup... both should be disallowed at a minimum.*


Concur. Blaming the referee is ridiculous. And stupid. and moronic. not to mention completely clueless.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jan 13, 2020)

The guy holding the bag threatening to shoot should get 1 to 3 years  in jail.  This could have gotten worse.


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## Sweetpea (Jan 13, 2020)

KONI said:


> Was there as well....saw everyone running from the field next us....heard people yelling shooter and took off with everyone else to the parking lot...very surreal and scary...players very shaken....need to have police presence mandatory at these tournaments...not sure of the details of what really went down....but you here shooter...run and ask questions later


I was at the Regional ODP Tournament last weekend and they had a police presence there.  I thought "what the heck", well I agree it is getting out of control.  I have never in all my years in soccer heard or seen a gun but have seen major fights where police had to be called.  People just need to get take control of their emotions.


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## Speed (Jan 13, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> I am not sure that people who were not there are appreciating what happened.  My daughter was on the field at the time.  A rush of people came pouring onto our side of the complex saying there is a active shooter - RUN!!   My kid and some of her teammates ran over the road, through the parking lot, jumped fences and hid in the yard of a house.  I had other kids there and, like many others, got separated from my daughter.  She is running with no idea if her parents were dead.  She is 12.  People hiding in cars, behind trees.  Parents yelling the names of their kids in the parking lot, trying to find them.  And Albion just sent around en email about what a great weekend it was with a footnote about an unfortunate incident and a harmless verbal threat.  I don’t think that quite captures hundreds of kids running into the surrounding area in fear for their lives, or parents in sheer panic about what happened to their kids.  Albion should be ashamed - not because of the actions of an idiot parent - but certainly for its own terrible communication.  It is deeply disrespectful to what those kids endured today.  I would be embarrassed to belong to that club and somebody should be held accountable for how they are communicating about this.


I am very sorry for your daughter and all the other kids. My nephew is a Columbine survivor and I wish that devastation, and the anxiety from it, on no one


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## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 13, 2020)

IMO this 100% falls on the parents of those teams.  Don’t look to place blame on anyone else but yourselves.  Be accountable for your actions and the actions of your children!  The ref, the coach, Albion or Galway Downs venue didn’t force the families to pay and play in the tourney and they certainly didn’t tell them to engage in the melee.  They ruined it for everyone else in the tourney and should receive the harshest punishment from the governing body... Cal South.  I hope the kid that got sucker punched is ok and presses charges as well as file a lawsuit against that family.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 13, 2020)

My next question is....how do we hold Cal South accountable to take action? 
With all the stories, pictures and hopefully video there has to be consequences.  

I would hate to see these 2 teams be able to play against each other at Presidents Cup in a couple weeks without repercussions.


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## Kicker4Life (Jan 13, 2020)

ItsJustSoccer said:


> My next question is....how do we hold Cal South accountable to take action?
> With all the stories, pictures and hopefully video there has to be consequences.
> 
> I would hate to see these 2 teams be able to play against each other at Presidents Cup in a couple weeks without repercussions.


Social Media has a way of putting pressure on organizations.


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## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 13, 2020)

ItsJustSoccer said:


> My next question is....how do we hold Cal South accountable to take action?
> With all the stories, pictures and hopefully video there has to be consequences.
> 
> I would hate to see these 2 teams be able to play against each other at Presidents Cup in a couple weeks without repercussions.


Both teams should be removed from competition because both sidelines participated in the melee but that should only be the beginning of their punishment...  Make them the example and set the standard for any future incidents.


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## Dof3 (Jan 13, 2020)

Speed said:


> I am very sorry for your daughter and all the other kids. My nephew is a Columbine survivor and I wish that devastation, and the anxiety from it, on no one


Thank you.  All this talk about who is to blame is, in my view, unhelpful.  Albion communicated poorly.  But my frustration in that communication is that they are missing the opportunity to be an agent of change with respect to what is one of the worst parts of youth soccer.  Yes, referees and coaches need to be better in terms of de-escalating hostile dynamics in games.  Parents need to do the same.  Sanctioning bodies and clubs need to get serious about a code of conduct and accountability.  We have rules about kids heading the ball for safety.  So let's have rules about parental conduct that are actually enforced.  Define and communicate some standards.  Two players and a coach get a yellow, the game is over and that team doesn't play again for a month or longer in any sanctioned event.  AND ACTUALLY DO IT.  AS OFTEN AS IS NECESSARY.  Something clear and reasonable and consequential so people will understand that the vast majority that is the rest of us do not want in the sport.  Affected clubs have an opportunity to demand and impose change.  Cal South has the same opportunity.  If kids screaming in fear, hiding terrified and parents screaming the names of lost children in anguish is not enough to focus people on the acute need for something better, then I don't know what short of an actual shooting or death will.  Believe me, the people at the event running in terror are fine with harshest of penalties for the conduct that led to what happened.  Call your coaches.  Call your clubs.  Call Cal South.  That is what I am doing today.  Insist on something better.  We are the community of youth soccer.  Demand better and hold yourself and those around you to a higher standard.


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## Soccerlife73 (Jan 13, 2020)

BruceDern said:


> Where is Team Azteca located in California? Or are they from Tijuana?


Are you saying from tijuana or los angeles because most kids are  hispanic? I actually know the coach and is a very well respected coach in the community and has coached for many yrs with alot of awards under his belt . I dont think you guys should blame coaches for what happen it is us as parents to keep the sidlines safe and quiet from offensive remarks about players refs etc. In my opinion the only one to put blame is the teen running on field and started the whole drama. Secondly  parents have no right or business  on field regardless  of situation  until called in for serious injury . I know for a fact the coach  is really pissed off at both sides of the parents for the way they were acting the whole game. Just let the kids play and handle their business  on the soccer field on their own. Parents shut up and just cheer for your kid. Let coaches coach refs ref and players play just encourage stop with the negativity. Half of the parents on sideline have never played soccer in their lives and think they are professional  coaches lmao


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 13, 2020)

Bri’s-DAD said:


> Both teams should be removed from competition because both sidelines participated in the melee but that should only be the beginning of their punishment...  Make them the example and set the standard for any future incidents.


Completely agree!


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## Socal0 (Jan 13, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> Thank you.  All this talk about who is to blame is, in my view, unhelpful.  Albion communicated poorly.  But my frustration in that communication is that they are missing the opportunity to be an agent of change with respect to what is one of the worst parts of youth soccer.  Yes, referees and coaches need to be better in terms of de-escalating hostile dynamics in games.  Parents need to do the same.  Sanctioning bodies and clubs need to get serious about a code of conduct and accountability.  We have rules about kids heading the ball for safety.  So let's have rules about parental conduct that are actually enforced.  Define and communicate some standards.  Two players and a coach get a yellow, the game is over and that team doesn't play again for a month or longer in any sanctioned event.  AND ACTUALLY DO IT.  AS OFTEN AS IS NECESSARY.  Something clear and reasonable and consequential so people will understand that the vast majority that is the rest of us do not want in the sport.  Affected clubs have an opportunity to demand and impose change.  Cal South has the same opportunity.  If kids screaming in fear, hiding terrified and parents screaming the names of lost children in anguish is not enough to focus people on the acute need for something better, then I don't know what short of an actual shooting or death will.  Believe me, the people at the event running in terror are fine with harshest of penalties for the conduct that led to what happened.  Call your coaches.  Call your clubs.  Call Cal South.  That is what I am doing today.  Insist on something better.  We are the community of youth soccer.  Demand better and hold yourself and those around you to a higher standard.


There needs to be a law enforcement presence at these events. We need to demand it. Simply kicking a few families out of the organization isn’t enough.


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## PruritusAniFC (Jan 13, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> The guy holding the bag threatening to shoot should get 1 to 3 years  in jail.  This could have gotten worse.


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## watfly (Jan 13, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> Thank you.  All this talk about who is to blame is, in my view, unhelpful.  Albion communicated poorly.  But my frustration in that communication is that they are missing the opportunity to be an agent of change with respect to what is one of the worst parts of youth soccer.  Yes, referees and coaches need to be better in terms of de-escalating hostile dynamics in games.  Parents need to do the same.  Sanctioning bodies and clubs need to get serious about a code of conduct and accountability.  We have rules about kids heading the ball for safety.  So let's have rules about parental conduct that are actually enforced.  Define and communicate some standards.  Two players and a coach get a yellow, the game is over and that team doesn't play again for a month or longer in any sanctioned event.  AND ACTUALLY DO IT.  AS OFTEN AS IS NECESSARY.  Something clear and reasonable and consequential so people will understand that the vast majority that is the rest of us do not want in the sport.  Affected clubs have an opportunity to demand and impose change.  Cal South has the same opportunity.  If kids screaming in fear, hiding terrified and parents screaming the names of lost children in anguish is not enough to focus people on the acute need for something better, then I don't know what short of an actual shooting or death will.  Believe me, the people at the event running in terror are fine with harshest of penalties for the conduct that led to what happened.  Call your coaches.  Call your clubs.  Call Cal South.  That is what I am doing today.  Insist on something better.  We are the community of youth soccer.  Demand better and hold yourself and those around you to a higher standard.


I agree.  This is less of an issue of blame, and more an issue of accountability.  Unfortunately, you will likely never see an existing Club be an agent of change because their priority is to protect their own self interests.  Youth club soccer long ago became more about than the adults than the kids years ago.


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## BIGD (Jan 13, 2020)

oh canada said:


> Thankfully nobody injured or killed, so the resolution is fairly simple:
> 
> 1 - the players fighting -- if there was fighting, these 2 should be banned from State Cup - Cal South and the club(s) responsible for doing so.  If a kid ran from the sideline and threw punches, there should be charges filed against that kid.  Juvenile misdemeanor but some time cleaning soccer tournament porta-potties in the future would be an age appropriate consequence if under 16yrs.
> 
> ...


Thank you for a rational, solution focused, non-club bashing post.  It was absolutely awful and should not happen again and is much greater than a tournament or club issue.


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## blam (Jan 13, 2020)

The other issue is 2nd amendment. The 2nd amendment original purpose is to allow States to call up their militia so that they could battle against the United States Armed Forces should they decide to leave the union. Back then, muskets and bayonets may be enough to bring down the US Army. Today, people use this law to buy toys like hunting gear. These rifles or hand guns can do nothing when the enemy is the US Armed Forces. 2nd amendment should allow the militia men to get heavier gears like Tanks, Anti Aircraft guns, Bombers etc. etc. We need to rethink the 2nd amendment. The way the 2nd amendment is used today, the state militia would be powerless against the US Armed Forces. With the law only allowing hand held weapons, I don't know how we can use it to defeat the Union if there is a need in the future. Ideas? Seem like not worth the trouble of even keeping this law given all the problem it is causing(random shootings) and no clear sight of it even having a chance to achieve its original intent(defeating the US Armed Forces).

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "


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## BananaKick (Jan 13, 2020)

blam said:


> The other issue is 2nd amendment. The 2nd amendment original purpose is to allow States to call up their militia so that they could battle against the United States Armed Forces should they decide to leave the union. Back then, muskets and bayonets may be enough to bring down the US Army. Today, people use this law to buy toys like hunting gear. These rifles or hand guns can do nothing when the enemy is the US Armed Forces. 2nd amendment should allow the militia men to get heavier gears like Tanks, Anti Aircraft guns, Bombers etc. etc. We need to rethink the 2nd amendment. The way the 2nd amendment is used today, the state militia would be powerless against the US Armed Forces. With the law only allowing hand held weapons, I don't know how we can use it to defeat the Union if there is a need in the future. Ideas? Seem like not worth the trouble of even keeping this law given all the problem it is causing(random shootings) and no clear sight of it even having a chance to achieve its original intent(defeating the US Armed Forces).
> 
> "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "


dumb


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## met61 (Jan 13, 2020)

46n2 said:


> Go away dummy , this is way over your head obviously.


I'm curious...how does posting this make you feel?


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## Grace T. (Jan 13, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> Two players and a coach get a yellow, the game is over and that team doesn't play again for a month or longer in any sanctioned event.  AND ACTUALLY DO IT.  AS OFTEN AS IS NECESSARY.


They'll be a lot of unintended consequences to such a rule.  Refs will be reluctant to hand out cards for rough play (reserving cards instead for really egregious behavior...which is sort of the situation we have now with red cards since refs are so reluctant to hand them out, particularly at the younger ages), goalkeepers will be afraid to come off their line, fewer slide tackle attempts, a greater divide between the "let em play" school of refs (and parents) and the "by the book" school f refs (and parents) calling for cards on things like charging.  It alters the structure of the game because that's what red cards are for...the egregious circumstances....wonder why using them has fallen out of favor?  Find the answer to that and you have the answer to the card/game management problem.


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## OCsoccerdad7777 (Jan 13, 2020)

Soccerlife73 said:


> Are you saying from tijuana or los angeles because most kids are  hispanic? I actually know the coach and is a very well respected coach in the community and has coached for many yrs with alot of awards under his belt . I dont think you guys should blame coaches for what happen it is us as parents to keep the sidlines safe and quiet from offensive remarks about players refs etc. In my opinion the only one to put blame is the teen running on field and started the whole drama. Secondly  parents have no right or business  on field regardless  of situation  until called in for serious injury . I know for a fact the coach  is really pissed off at both sides of the parents for the way they were acting the whole game. Just let the kids play and handle their business  on the soccer field on their own. Parents shut up and just cheer for your kid. Let coaches coach refs ref and players play just encourage stop with the negativity. Half of the parents on sideline have never played soccer in their lives and think they are professional  coaches lmao


Coach absolutely has some blame if they can't also handle the parents. If parents acted this way this tournament,  I highly doubt they've been quiet at other games/tourneys. This coach has enabled the parents to act that way. He could have warned parents that their kids will be benched if they yell at refs and actually do it. Solved VERY easily. To be fair, there are tons of other coaches that enable this behavior as well and it's their fault for that. That's why I say partial blame. Refs also have some blame. Red cards, threaten to cancel the game, kick out parents, etc. I agree the main blame is players and parents though.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jan 13, 2020)

The only blame here is the coach and the adults.  Kids are not to blame, club can’t do anything to stop stupid people.  Refs can’t do much here, heck I don’t think we will see refs now that people are trying to pull guns.   

This is so sick that people have no life to ruin a sport that kids enjoy.


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## Poconos (Jan 13, 2020)

certainly pro 2A here . . . but did they even confirm that a gun was actually involved?



blam said:


> The other issue is 2nd amendment. The 2nd amendment original purpose is to allow States to call up their militia so that they could battle against the United States Armed Forces should they decide to leave the union. Back then, muskets and bayonets may be enough to bring down the US Army. Today, people use this law to buy toys like hunting gear. These rifles or hand guns can do nothing when the enemy is the US Armed Forces. 2nd amendment should allow the militia men to get heavier gears like Tanks, Anti Aircraft guns, Bombers etc. etc. We need to rethink the 2nd amendment. The way the 2nd amendment is used today, the state militia would be powerless against the US Armed Forces. With the law only allowing hand held weapons, I don't know how we can use it to defeat the Union if there is a need in the future. Ideas? Seem like not worth the trouble of even keeping this law given all the problem it is causing(random shootings) and no clear sight of it even having a chance to achieve its original intent(defeating the US Armed Forces).
> 
> "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "


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## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 13, 2020)

I hate to say it but situations like this could give some soccer clubs and venues an excuse to raise fees by playing on the fears of the parents.  I laughed at the other thread about a OC club charging $4,500-5k annually but I can see myself paying that if I were a new soccer parent.  I’ve also read some posters wanting a security or a law enforcement presence at these tournaments and I can’t help but think of how much of a money grab this could become.  Just thinking out loud.


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## watfly (Jan 13, 2020)

I think we're confusing blame and responsibilities.  Parents may be to blame for the incident, but Albion, Azteca and Calsouth are responsible for how they respond to and handle the matter.


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## futboldad1 (Jan 13, 2020)

OCsoccerdad7777 said:


> Coach absolutely has some blame if they can't also handle the parents. If parents acted this way this tournament,  I highly doubt they've been quiet at other games/tourneys. This coach has enabled the parents to act that way. He could have warned parents that their kids will be benched if they yell at refs and actually do it. Solved VERY easily. To be fair, there are tons of other coaches that enable this behavior as well and it's their fault for that. That's why I say partial blame. Refs also have some blame. Red cards, threaten to cancel the game, kick out parents, etc. I agree the main blame is players and parents though.


Had a real crazy dad way back during when my DDs were u littles at surf....coach was great but couldn't do anything when a parent ran on the field....if they are doing it often then it's on the coach but seems hard to see how the coach could have stopped this from what I've heard....


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## futboldad1 (Jan 13, 2020)

Scary, unacceptable and glad nobody, especially kids, was hurt....


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## Dof3 (Jan 13, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> They'll be a lot of unintended consequences to such a rule.  Refs will be reluctant to hand out cards for rough play (reserving cards instead for really egregious behavior...which is sort of the situation we have now with red cards since refs are so reluctant to hand them out, particularly at the younger ages), goalkeepers will be afraid to come off their line, fewer slide tackle attempts, a greater divide between the "let em play" school of refs (and parents) and the "by the book" school f refs (and parents) calling for cards on things like charging.  It alters the structure of the game because that's what red cards are for...the egregious circumstances....wonder why using them has fallen out of favor?  Find the answer to that and you have the answer to the card/game management problem.


That's why I said players AND coach.  A coach doing his job seeing his players collecting yellows will intervene and deal with his players.  If the coach is getting a yellow also, then it is time to end the game and refresh perspective.  What happened yesterday should not happen.  Police at every field where kids are playing soccer is unrealistic.  We need to treat the disease and not the symptoms.  This is just one idea.  I am sure there are better ones, but there needs to be something where people can see they are approaching significant consequences and settle down.


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## ajaxahi (Jan 13, 2020)

I‘m not with either team but I was there and also have sources close to the situation. The facts reported in this thread are for the most part correct. The situation started with pushing and shoving by players from both teams but exploded when a teenage Azteca sibling ran onto the field and punched an Albion South player. What has not been reported here is that Albion South player‘s dad then ran onto the field and started beating on the Azteca teenager. Both sidelines immediately emptied and it was chaos.  From what I have been told during the melee the Azteca parent with the backpack was jumped by four Albion South parents and was getting beaten up badly enough that he decided to say he had a gun, which put an end to all the fighting. He was detained but later released by the Sheriffs Dept. after they reviewed the video evidence which supported his story and was actually asked if he wanted to press charges on the Albion South parents that beat him up. From what I was told the Sheriff Dept. have identified the Albion South parent who got physical with the teen. It was a fast moving chaotic brawl in an already emotionally charged environment that escalated very fast. It was ugly and shameful. Plenty of blame to go around. Lots of people behaving badly on both sides. And I had one very freaked out 10 year old to talk down on the ride home.


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## focomoso (Jan 13, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> Had a real crazy dad way back during when my DDs were u littles at surf....coach was great but couldn't do anything when a parent ran on the field....if they are doing it often then it's on the coach but seems hard to see how the coach could have stopped this from what I've heard....


Good coaches warn parents not to even talk to refs or the opposing team. If it keeps happening, the parent should be banned. If it still keeps happening, the kid should be cut. Coaches have a lot of power in these situations and they need to be dealt with early - before it comes to running on the field. (Though it sounds as if in this case it was a "brother" that started everything. Harder to control, but still the coach has some influence.)


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## focomoso (Jan 13, 2020)

pewpew said:


> Villa Park is total hood area of Pasadena. Not uncommon to be there during training and see Pasadena PD with 5-6 locals against the fence or proned out on the floor. Being there for training at night is even worse.


Yes, but it's home...


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## timbuck (Jan 13, 2020)

I'm telling you -  If they put a UFC cage at tournament venues and let upset parents fight it out - They could make a ton more money for the club.
Anyone lays a finger on someone outside of the cage is an automatic life time ban.
But once you get in the cage, it's Ready to Rumble!!!!!!
If you win your fight - your kid gets to stay in the league and continue to play.  If you lose your fight, your kid gets a lifetime ban.
People will shut the hell up when they realize there is an actual chance that someone can legally punch them in the mouth.


----------



## focomoso (Jan 13, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I'm telling you -  If they put a UFC cage at tournament venues and let upset parents fight it out - They could make a ton more money for the club.
> Anyone lays a finger on someone outside of the cage is an automatic life time ban.
> But once you get in the cage, it's Ready to Rumble!!!!!!
> If you win your fight - your kid gets to stay in the league and continue to play.  If you lose your fight, your kid gets a lifetime ban.
> People will shut the hell up when they realize there is an actual chance that someone can legally punch them in the mouth.


Most people will shut up, but a few will get worse (because they think they're tough).


----------



## futboldad1 (Jan 13, 2020)

focomoso said:


> Good coaches warn parents not to even talk to refs or the opposing team. If it keeps happening, the parent should be banned. If it still keeps happening, the kid should be cut. Coaches have a lot of power in these situations and they need to be dealt with early - before it comes to running on the field. (Though it sounds as if in this case it was a "brother" that started everything. Harder to control, but still the coach has some influence.)





focomoso said:


> Good coaches warn parents not to even talk to refs or the opposing team. If it keeps happening, the parent should be banned. If it still keeps happening, the kid should be cut. Coaches have a lot of power in these situations and they need to be dealt with early - before it comes to running on the field. (Though it sounds as if in this case it was a "brother" that started everything. Harder to control, but still the coach has some influence.)


"if they are doing it often then it's on the coach" is what I said and stand by......a crazy parent or kid running on a field out the blue from 70 yards away.....not seeing how this is on the coach.....and I'm no fan of most coaches.....


----------



## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 13, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I'm telling you -  If they put a UFC cage at tournament venues and let upset parents fight it out - They could make a ton more money for the club.
> Anyone lays a finger on someone outside of the cage is an automatic life time ban.
> But once you get in the cage, it's Ready to Rumble!!!!!!
> If you win your fight - your kid gets to stay in the league and continue to play.  If you lose your fight, your kid gets a lifetime ban.
> People will shut the hell up when they realize there is an actual chance that someone can legally punch them in the mouth.


True


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## Ed Ho (Jan 13, 2020)

ajaxahi said:


> I‘m not with either team but I was there and also have sources close to the situation. The facts reported in this thread are for the most part correct. The situation started with pushing and shoving by players from both teams but exploded when a teenage Azteca sibling ran onto the field and punched an Albion South player. What has not been reported here is that Albion South player‘s dad then ran onto the field and started beating on the Azteca teenager. Both sidelines immediately emptied and it was chaos.  From what I have been told during the melee the Azteca parent with the backpack was jumped by four Albion South parents and was getting beaten up badly enough that he decided to say he had a gun, which put an end to all the fighting. He was detained but later released by the Sheriffs Dept. after they reviewed the video evidence which supported his story and was actually asked if he wanted to press charges on the Albion South parents that beat him up. From what I was told the Sheriff Dept. have identified the Albion South parent who got physical with the teen. It was a fast moving chaotic brawl in an already emotionally charged environment that escalated very fast. It was ugly and shameful. Plenty of blame to go around. Lots of people behaving badly on both sides. And I had one very freaked out 10 year old to talk down on the ride home.


This sounds like the most objective - and probably accurate view of what happened.  Thanks for posting.

BTW - is there a video of the game posted somewhere?  Link?


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## yafooligan (Jan 13, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> Scary, unacceptable and glad nobody, especially kids, was hurt....


It appears nobody was physically hurt, but mentally I’m sure there are plenty of kids having issues processing this incident.  Albion should not claim the threat was “harmless” like they did in their statement.


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## Grace T. (Jan 13, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> If the coach is getting a yellow also, then it is time to end the game and refresh perspective.



That's what the red is for.  The yellow is a caution.  Not that I CR a lot, but I don't hesitate to use the yellow.  Get a ref in a bad mood or one of the tyranical ones on a power trip and you'll be having a lot of teams suspended.  For the remainder of the refs (whether let em play or by the book), if refs aren't willing to use the red against coaches (because they know it will affect their livelihood potentially and it's a small community) I can't see them doing the yellow....the unintended consequence will be just more ref abuse because you've taken away a management tool to caution.  But sure, issue a red to a coach, end the game and have the suspension reviewed by the league at that point...think that's fair.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 13, 2020)

ajaxahi said:


> I‘m not with either team but I was there and also have sources close to the situation. The facts reported in this thread are for the most part correct. The situation started with pushing and shoving by players from both teams but exploded when a teenage Azteca sibling ran onto the field and punched an Albion South player. What has not been reported here is that Albion South player‘s dad then ran onto the field and started beating on the Azteca teenager. Both sidelines immediately emptied and it was chaos.  From what I have been told during the melee the Azteca parent with the backpack was jumped by four Albion South parents and was getting beaten up badly enough that he decided to say he had a gun, which put an end to all the fighting. He was detained but later released by the Sheriffs Dept. after they reviewed the video evidence which supported his story and was actually asked if he wanted to press charges on the Albion South parents that beat him up. From what I was told the Sheriff Dept. have identified the Albion South parent who got physical with the teen. It was a fast moving chaotic brawl in an already emotionally charged environment that escalated very fast. It was ugly and shameful. Plenty of blame to go around. Lots of people behaving badly on both sides. And I had one very freaked out 10 year old to talk down on the ride home.


This is the definitely the most accurate description of what I witnessed with my own eyes as well as others stories.  Although the guy did not act or look injured from getting jumped, he seemeds very put together still.

My question though is why is it ok that the guy threatened to have a gun with hundreds of children around receives no consequences? 

Imagine if this guy did this at Disneyland, a threat is a threat.  We now have hundreds of traumatized children because of a threat.


----------



## Stryprod (Jan 13, 2020)

ajaxahi said:


> I‘m not with either team but I was there and also have sources close to the situation. The facts reported in this thread are for the most part correct. The situation started with pushing and shoving by players from both teams but exploded when a teenage Azteca sibling ran onto the field and punched an Albion South player. What has not been reported here is that Albion South player‘s dad then ran onto the field and started beating on the Azteca teenager. Both sidelines immediately emptied and it was chaos.  From what I have been told during the melee the Azteca parent with the backpack was jumped by four Albion South parents and was getting beaten up badly enough that he decided to say he had a gun, which put an end to all the fighting. He was detained but later released by the Sheriffs Dept. after they reviewed the video evidence which supported his story and was actually asked if he wanted to press charges on the Albion South parents that beat him up. From what I was told the Sheriff Dept. have identified the Albion South parent who got physical with the teen. It was a fast moving chaotic brawl in an already emotionally charged environment that escalated very fast. It was ugly and shameful. Plenty of blame to go around. Lots of people behaving badly on both sides. And I had one very freaked out 10 year old to talk down on the ride home.


I was there. 

What happened in the melee, too hard to tell in the moment as there were too many bodies to focus on one. 

Was the Azteca "gun" dad jumped? I'd not be surprised although I can tell you from ~15' away he showed no signs of bleeding, appeared to have no major signs of grass stains (then again no grass there #galwaysucks), clothing not torn or disheveled, and still had his hat on. 

*I can unequivocally state the individual (Azteca parent) who grabbed his bag was under no immediate threat when he went to get his bag. He left the vicinity of the fight on the right side of the field, walk to the left where his bag was, grabbed it, unzipped it, place his hand in, and put on his show.  *

I have 2 pictures of this individual taken a minute apart and never is anyone within 10' of this guy. Only as he continued to stand and move back and forth did some individuals approach him, and I'm not sure whether they were Albion or Azteca.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jan 13, 2020)

yafooligan said:


> It appears nobody was physically hurt, but mentally I’m sure there are plenty of kids having issues processing this incident.  Albion should not claim the threat was “harmless” like they did in their statement.


I hope somebody called trauma specialists to be available to talk to families and especially the kids that were impacted.  While the threat ended up not being real, it was real to the kids and parents running for their lives and can have lasting consequences.


----------



## Emma (Jan 13, 2020)

I'm not sure why everyone is so upset at the dad that beat up the teenager or why he's being charged.  I'm quite certain most moms and dads on this site would do the same.  Imagine your 9/10 year old kidding being attacked by another male (you don't know how old he is but he's bigger than your kid and has no reason to beat him up).  How many of us could calmly assess the situation and not beat up that teenager?  Any reasonable parent would have ran out and protected their 9/10 year old son.   This is the teenager's fault and hopefully the beating by the dad prevents him from beating up on another 9/10 year old kid.  The rest of the parents should stay put and let the refs and coach deescalate the situation.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jan 13, 2020)

As parents we also need to inform our coach or manager if we have a trouble maker in our team.   The best way to avoid this is controlling our own parents.


----------



## Grace T. (Jan 13, 2020)

Emma said:


> I'm not sure why everyone is so upset at the dad that beat up the teenager or why he's being charged.  I'm quite certain most moms and dads on this site would do the same.  Imagine your 9/10 year old kidding being attacked by another male (you don't know how old he is but he's bigger than your kid and has no reason to beat him up).  How many of us could calmly assess the situation and not beat up that teenager?  Any reasonable parent would have ran out and protected their 9/10 year old son.   This is the teenager's fault and hopefully the beating by the dad prevents him from beating up on another 9/10 year old kid.  The rest of the parents should stay put and let the refs and coach deescalate the situation.


Not a criminal lawyer, but California does have a self-defense of others law.  The danger has to be imminent (seems to have been based on the description), reasonable (this is an open question), and proportionate (we don't have the facts).  There's going to be an argument about the reasonableness (were the refs doing anything to stop it, how young was the minor, was it his kid) and the proportionate (how big was the teen and could they have been separated and how much of a beat down was taking place on the minor attacker as opposed to trying to separate them).  Also don't know how the involvement of a minor attacker affects things.

The guy with the backpack is a bigger problem and much trickier.  Was he really being assaulted and threatening in self-defense or was he disturbing the peace?  If people got injured on the way out and fleeing, there might also be civil liability.  If someone got injured on the way out, I also wouldn't be surprised to see a lawsuit for negligence against the tournament organizers (e.g., failure to provide adequate security, problem with the evacuation routes with people climbing over fences, failure to notify people of the evacuation routes)


----------



## ajaxahi (Jan 13, 2020)

You raise some good questions. From what I was told after reviewing the videos, the police released the backpack guy and asked him if he wanted to press charges on the Albion South parents. If this is in fact true then he probably was assaulted but maybe the Albion guys just didn‘t land any serious punches. 

In my personal opinion regardless of the threat he might have felt, the backpack guy should still be held accountable for creating panic in a crowded event. In this day and age with so many mass shootings people are already on edge. You shouldn’t be able to just go around threatening that you have a gun. Imagine if it were in an enclosed space and kids got trampled to death trying to get away. As it was this guy traumatized a bunch of kids and seems to have gotten off scott free.

The Albion South dad who roughed up the teen will have to face the consequences. Hitting a minor obviously goes way over the line.

But all of this unfortunately shows how one thing leads to another and how quickly things can get out of control. 



Stryprod said:


> I was there.
> 
> What happened in the melee, too hard to tell in the moment as there were too many bodies to focus on one.
> 
> ...


----------



## oh canada (Jan 13, 2020)

Appreciate everyone's opinions here, and honestly, this is what is great about this forum and the only reason I use it.  Not to quibble over meaningless debates about who has a better u10 team or which league is better, but to get real information, helpful information, and breaking news...this site broke the story thanks to the OP...well before the morning News cycle that very few read/watch any more (for good reason).

That said, all the talk re lawsuits and criminal charges is unrealistic.  For parents who care so much about their kids' soccer games that they yell/scream at the refs and other players or cause fights, the hardest punishment for them to handle (and the one that will be most effective as a deterrent to other crazy parents - WHO ARE AT EVERY CLUB BTW) is swift and severe soccer-related action.  Team, player, parent suspensions or terminations as the facts bear out.  And make sure the soccer-bubble knows about the punishment.  This primarily will be the job of CalSouth.  They can't do it in 48 hours.  State Cup games start this weekend, so give them until Thursday to lay down the law.  We all pay $$ to CalSouth, let's see if they have their players and parents best interests as priority #1.  

We had an incident when I played youth hockey in Canada - many winters ago.  Both Dad's who fought were barred from the home/away arenas for an entire year.  Never had a problem with them again, and they actually ended up becoming friends after about 6 months.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 13, 2020)

Agreed.  I really hope Cal South does the right thing in this situation. If no action is taken, they are taking the stance of dismissing this event and allowing unruly parents to believe this is ok behavior.  
I know there are a handful of parents from our team (which was standing right there) that called Cal South today to demand action take place.  I encourage others that were there to do the same.  



oh canada said:


> Appreciate everyone's opinions here, and honestly, this is what is great about this forum and the only reason I use it.  Not to quibble over meaningless debates about who has a better u10 team or which league is better, but to get real information, helpful information, and breaking news...this site broke the story thanks to the OP...well before the morning News cycle that very few read/watch any more (for good reason).
> 
> That said, all the talk re lawsuits and criminal charges is unrealistic.  For parents who care so much about their kids' soccer games that they yell/scream at the refs and other players or cause fights, the hardest punishment for them to handle (and the one that will be most effective as a deterrent to other crazy parents - WHO ARE AT EVERY CLUB BTW) is swift and severe soccer-related action.  Team, player, parent suspensions or terminations as the facts bear out.  And make sure the soccer-bubble knows about the punishment.  This primarily will be the job of CalSouth.  They can't do it in 48 hours.  State Cup games start this weekend, so give them until Thursday to lay down the law.  We all pay $$ to CalSouth, let's see if they have their players and parents best interests as priority #1.
> 
> We had an incident when I played youth hockey in Canada - many winters ago.  Both Dad's who fought were barred from the home/away arenas for an entire year.  Never had a problem with them again, and they actually ended up becoming friends after about 6 months.


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## Stryprod (Jan 13, 2020)

There was <8% compliance with CalSouth's Code of Conduct for coaches, players, and parents/spectators. Only time will tell how serious they are...

*The Coach is expected to:*
• Know the official Laws of the Game of soccer and the rules of Cal South and abide by them. *[FAIL]*
• Instruct player and parents in the rules and motivate each player to compete according to the rules at all times. *[FAIL]*
• Respect the game officials at all times. Refrain from questioning their decisions or challenging their authority. *[FAIL]*
• Ensure that the Cal South rules are followed by all players and spectators. *[FAIL]*
• Ensure that fans of his or her team exhibit sportsmanship and maturity at all times and assist league and game officials in maintaining control of spectators during games. *[FAIL]*
• Respect the coaches and players of the opposing team before, during, and after the game. *[FAIL]*
• Take appropriate steps to minimize scoring in runaway games. *[PASS]*
• Teach each player, especially through personal example, to be humble and generous in victory and proud and courteous in defeat. *[FAIL]*
• Maintain control of his/her emotions and avoid actions, language, and/or gestures that may be interpreted as hostile and humiliating. *[FAIL]*
• Teach and practice good sportsmanship and fair play by personally demonstrating commitment to these virtues. *[FAIL]*
• Promote the concept that soccer is merely a game, and that players and coaches on other teams are opponents, but not enemies. *[FAIL]*

*Every player is expected to:*
• Know and respect the rules of soccer and Cal South and abide by them at all times. *[FAIL]*
• Show respect and courtesy to officials and coaches by following their instructions and directions. *[FAIL]*
• Respect the game officials and refrain from addressing them or commenting on their decisions during or after the game. *[FAIL]*
• Maintain control of his/her emotions, avoiding the use of abusive or profane language, taunting or humiliating remarks, and/or gestures and physical assault upon another player at any time. *[FAIL]*
• Respect the coaches and players of the opposing team and display sportsmanship at the conclusion of a game and be humble and generous in victory and proud and courteous in defeat. *[FAIL]*
• Follow all Association rules, respecting at all times the property of others. *[FAIL]*
• Remember that soccer is a game and treat players and coaches on other teams as opponents, not enemies. *[FAIL]*

*Every parent and spectator is expected to:*
• Learn and respect the rules of soccer and the rules of Cal South. *[FAIL]*
• Show respect and courtesy to game officials, coaches, and players at all times. *[FAIL]*
• Respect the game officials and refrain from questioning their decisions or from addressing them in a loud, disrespectful, or abusive manner. *[FAIL]*
• Cheer for your child's team in a positive manner, refraining at all times from making negative or abusive remarks about the opposing team. Maintain control of your emotions and avoid actions, language, and/or gestures that may be interpreted as hostile and humiliating. *[FAIL]*
• Ensure that your child is at all games and practices at the required time or provide the coach with an appropriate excuse beforehand. *[PASS]*
• Demonstrate appropriate gestures of sportsmanship at the conclusion of a game, win or lose. *[FAIL]*
• Teach and practice good sportsmanship and fair play by personally demonstrating commitment to these virtues. *[FAIL]*
• Promote the concept that soccer is merely a game, and that players and coaches on other teams are opponents, not enemies. *[FAIL]*


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## soccercon (Jan 13, 2020)

Fight, Gun Scare at Soccer Match Lead to Panic
					

A soccer match in Temecula that devolved into a brawl led to mass panic after someone said they had a gun. Tony Shin reported on NBC4 News at 5 p.m. on Monday, Jan. 13, 2020.




					www.nbclosangeles.com


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## soccercon (Jan 13, 2020)

Any one have pictures or video?


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## Stryprod (Jan 13, 2020)

soccercon said:


> Any one have pictures or video?


Yes, there are pictures as well as video.


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## soccercon (Jan 13, 2020)

*CAL SOUTH EMAIL:

Cindy Quan
President and Chairman
760-887-0131
cquan@calsouth.com

Roy Carlson
Executive Vice President
858-603-5402
rcarlson@calsouth.com

Jerry Selby
Vice President of Youth
jselby@calsouth.com

District 5 Commissioner
(San Bernardino/Riverside Counties)
Louie De La Cruz
760-244-6878 – ldelacruz@calsouth.com

District 1 Commissioner
(San Diego/Imperial Counties)
Robert Pennoyer
619-988-5499 – rpennoyer@calsouth.com*


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## Fact (Jan 13, 2020)

Emma said:


> I'm not sure why everyone is so upset at the dad that beat up the teenager or why he's being charged.  I'm quite certain most moms and dads on this site would do the same.  Imagine your 9/10 year old kidding being attacked by another male (you don't know how old he is but he's bigger than your kid and has no reason to beat him up).  How many of us could calmly assess the situation and not beat up that teenager?  Any reasonable parent would have ran out and protected their 9/10 year old son.   This is the teenager's fault and hopefully the beating by the dad prevents him from beating up on another 9/10 year old kid.  The rest of the parents should stay put and let the refs and coach deescalate the situation.


Absolutely horrible response.  No I don’t believe most parents would have acted in the same manner.  The only time it is acceptable to put a hand on a minor if to prevent further harm and that would be getting the kid in a hold, not escalating this situation as happened here.  I have personally put a teen in a lock hold to make an arrest and prevent further harm and I have seen teens jump on top of a kid being attacked during a soccer game in an effort to protect him from
further harm. If there are options, you don’t beat on anyone ever.


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## 46n2 (Jan 13, 2020)

met61 said:


> I'm curious...how does posting this make you feel?


The result of the fight at the tournament was a direct result of Parents and Siblings "POLICING THEMSELVES" 

It happens too often in soccer now , Im around a lot of games tournaments and showcases and let me say , there is little to no respect for officials or coaches, so if some person that just joins this forums hours after this melee happens and says that we need to police ourselves and take matters into out own hands, I disagree with his statement , thats the direct cause of the problem .   You have to respect the system in place.

Coaches are there to mentor players and refs are there to officiate as best as they can. 

Parents are there to cheer for their little debbie and danny and *that's its*..

*Its embarrassing when I hear parents moan, yell and shout at other players either on their team or on the opposing team.
All that tension just builds....then they get into the ref and all hell breaks loose cause some parent is screaming offsides from 100ft away , really??!!  Its a fire that burns and parents feed it and feed it....till that stop and people stop thinking their above the law, this problems will never get solved.  If someone filmed girls high school parents they'd make serious money its the new dance moms.....and trust me the right people are taking notes on certain parent behaviors.  So many parents ruin it for their kids...*

Its the worse at the age between 7-12 cause everyone DD/BB is a star.

and I feel great BTW.


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## way up (Jan 13, 2020)

I don't know if this has been explored yet, but why do we put team fans next to each other on one side of the field? Yes, I know family and people should be able to behave and handle themselves properly in public, but competitive sports do bring out people's emotions. In most other high school sports, there are home and away bleachers, right? There is security at most collegiate to pro sport's games for a reason. 

I see why clubs are so adamant about positivity and encouragement from the sidelines only. I will say that our club does not tolerate this type of behavior which is why it surprises me to hear about. These games get physical and emotional, but it is sad that additional fees for security may start popping up. Parents, I pray you wise up and learn to enjoy the game and the competition. It starts with the parents and one of the best virtues to teach your children is good sportsmanship. The kids shake hands before many games. I think the parents should to. 

People complain about the price for club soccer, but it's only going to get more expensive with more security and less supply of referees. One thing about referees though. I would just ask for them to avoid conversation with parents. You can explain the call a tad, but you owe a parent no information. You're making the call right or wrong and should merely point to the ball and maybe say "The call was made and it's final". There is nothing to discuss. I've seen bad calls and stated an opinion before and the best response is the shoulders up, call was made, play on. I sit there and argue with myself for about 2 seconds and move on with the game. Games are emotional! We are fans watching our most prized priorities in life (our kids). We just need to remember that as passionate as we are, so is everyone else.

The bottom line is there would be no competition or games if other kids did not play. You need other competitors and you need the best competitors to bring out the best in the best. Most of us encourage club soccer for our kids for them to gain life skills and tough skin. I also like how they learn how to handle pressure and strong competition, but also how to do it with honor and pride. There is no room for this type of behavior in society let alone club soccer.


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## oh canada (Jan 13, 2020)

My last comment on this...after watching several of the videos from what's posted online, it appears that one of the Azteca kids pushes Albioin south kid, then he pushes back, there's some additional pushing and the ref comes over.  As ref is starting to assert himself, the person from the sideline comes running onto the field and sucker punches the Albion kid, then as you can expect, other people come running off the sideline to protect their players etc.

I didn't see punches thrown by players, only the sideline person.  So here's my punishment recommendation:  ban the Azteca team from State Cup if they are playing in it.  Sucks for the other families but there should be zero tolerance for spectators punching players.  It's not enough to just punish the actor.  Suspend the Albion player for 1 State Cup game.  Ban the guy who said he had a gun from State Cup and future Albion events for one year--I don't care if your afraid, you can't say you have a gun and posture to use it, just like you can't scream "fire" in a movie theater.  

As a good will gesture, Albion should offer teams that were there playing at the time 50% discount to next year's January Albion Tournament.  Don't have it at Galway.


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## Socal0 (Jan 13, 2020)

Unfor


way up said:


> I don't know if this has been explored yet, but why do we put team fans next to each other on one side of the field? Yes, I know family and people should be able to behave and handle themselves properly in public, but competitive sports do bring out people's emotions. In most other high school sports, there are home and away bleachers, right? There is security at most collegiate to pro sport's games for a reason.
> 
> I see why clubs are so adamant about positivity and encouragement from the sidelines only. I will say that our club does not tolerate this type of behavior which is why it surprises me to hear about. These games get physical and emotional, but it is sad that additional fees for security may start popping up. Parents, I pray you wise up and learn to enjoy the game and the competition. It starts with the parents and one of the best virtues to teach your children is good sportsmanship. The kids shake hands before many games. I think the parents should to.
> 
> ...


*people should be able to behave and handle themselves properly in public.* 

Ghetto hoodlums can’t control themselves, and for that security should be present at large events, including youth soccer tournaments.


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## Supermodel56 (Jan 13, 2020)

Socal0 said:


> Unfor
> 
> 
> *people should be able to behave and handle themselves properly in public.*
> ...


honestly, they should make it an automatic felony if you’re a spectator at a sporting event and start a fight/punch someone. This type of behavior happens way too often and needs to be stopped.

From a cal south perspective if you step onto the field for any reason other than assisting with an injury per ref or coach request, your player is automatically banned from participating in any cal south event for the remainder of the current season and the entire next season. The player cannot just switch clubs, nothing. 

That teen that ran onto the field should be charged as a juvenile. 

The grey area is the parent trash talking on the sidelines... refs need to handle this (and some do) and not hesitate to hand out reds to the parents and remove them from the field. I know they got really serious about this with CRL this year where entire sidelines were no longer allowed to attend games. I think that is a good deterrent and they should follow that for tournaments as well.


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## Grace T. (Jan 13, 2020)

oh canada said:


> That said, all the talk re lawsuits and criminal charges is unrealistic.


I'd just point out the headers rule was the result of a lawsuit.  And even if some innocent bystander didn't get hurt physically, someone could always claim emotional damage.  And if not this event, then the next since the argument next time will be because of the press this is receiving in the soccer community other venues should know the possibility this might happen.  Could result in some overkill policies such as mandatory security at events which will drive up tournament costs even more, or might have some venues decline to provide field space.


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## pewpew (Jan 14, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I'd just point out the headers rule was the result of a lawsuit.  And even if some innocent bystander didn't get hurt physically, someone could always claim emotional damage.  And if not this event, then the next since the argument next time will be because of the press this is receiving in the soccer community other venues should know the possibility this might happen.  Could result in some overkill policies such as mandatory security at events which will drive up tournament costs even more, or might have some venues decline to provide field space.


 @ oh canada. Actually it's very realistic. After all..this is California. One of the most litigious states in the union. People are ready to drop the lawsuit bomb for just about anything. As far as criminal charges...most definitely.


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## BananaKick (Jan 14, 2020)

PruritusAniFC said:


> View attachment 6156


  Is this the guy that claimed ( or acted )  like he had a Gun because he was "threatened for his life "  This " diznick " doesn't even look like he was jumped by a crowd a men. His hat is perfectly on his head and I done even see grass stains. Let's ban this " cracknob " from all Albion & State Cup events.


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## Emma (Jan 14, 2020)

Fact said:


> Absolutely horrible response.  No I don’t believe most parents would have acted in the same manner.  The only time it is acceptable to put a hand on a minor if to prevent further harm and that would be getting the kid in a hold, not escalating this situation as happened here.  I have personally put a teen in a lock hold to make an arrest and prevent further harm and I have seen teens jump on top of a kid being attacked during a soccer game in an effort to protect him from
> further harm. If there are options, you don’t beat on anyone ever.


It's not a horrible response. It's an honest response.  If you think your natural parental instincts would allow you time to stay calm and digest the situation as your 9/10 year child is being attacked by an older person blindly out of nowhere, then kudos to you but my natural instincts would have been to pull that kid off and knock him out so he can't continue beating up on my kid.  I'd probably get my asked kicked though.  Cleaning porta potties, although a fantastic idea, may not prevent another attack by this teenager in the future.  That teenager learned a good life lesson - you don't attack a younger child during a soccer match with their parents watching.  You'll bear the consequences.

As for the guy who pretended he had a gun to prevent four people from continuing to beat up on him, let the cops decide whether he was telling the truth or doing the right thing based on their review of the evidence.  

Both sidelines and teams should be punished severely for this situation because it lead to a lot of emotional harm.  There was no reason for anyone but the parent of the child being hit to run out to the field.  That's right, I don't believe in waiting for a ref or anyone to protect my child when s/he is being attacked.  If that concussion blow lands before I get there, I'll never forgive myself.  

Both sidelines should not be allowed at state cup and a one year ban from all youth soccer games.  The kids playing can't be punished because I'm sure they were also traumatized in all this.  No need to further punish the children.


----------



## size_five (Jan 14, 2020)

oh canada said:


> after watching several of the videos from what's posted online, ...


where can you find some of the videos?  I looked on youtube, but only found some news reports


----------



## SoccerFrenzy (Jan 14, 2020)

oh canada said:


> My last comment on this...after watching several of the videos from what's posted online, it appears that one of the Azteca kids pushes Albioin south kid, then he pushes back, there's some additional pushing and the ref comes over.  As ref is starting to assert himself, the person from the sideline comes running onto the field and sucker punches the Albion kid, then as you can expect, other people come running off the sideline to protect their players etc.
> 
> I didn't see punches thrown by players, only the sideline person.  So here's my punishment recommendation:  ban the Azteca team from State Cup if they are playing in it.  Sucks for the other families but there should be zero tolerance for spectators punching players.  It's not enough to just punish the actor.  Suspend the Albion player for 1 State Cup game.  Ban the guy who said he had a gun from State Cup and future Albion events for one year--I don't care if your afraid, you can't say you have a gun and posture to use it, just like you can't scream "fire" in a movie theater.
> 
> As a good will gesture, Albion should offer teams that were there playing at the time 50% discount to next year's January Albion Tournament.  Don't have it at Galway.


How about the teen that started this mess, the teenager for punching the Albion player. He definitely needs some punishment no?


----------



## Stryprod (Jan 14, 2020)

size_five said:


> where can you find some of the videos?  I looked on youtube, but only found some news reports


Videos and pictures have been shared with Riverside SD as well as some made it to the news. There was a professional video cam on pole for the game. Not sure if it was recording or not, but hopefully they can get access to that.


----------



## espola (Jan 14, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> Videos and pictures have been shared with Riverside SD as well as some made it to the news. There was a professional video cam on pole for the game. Not sure if it was recording or not, but hopefully they can get access to that.


Someone above mentioned videos they have seen.  Any links known to them?


----------



## Stryprod (Jan 14, 2020)

SoccerFrenzy said:


> How about the teen that started this mess, the teenager for punching the Albion player. He definitely needs some punishment no?


Absolutely. It's a tangled mess with some more culpable than others, e.g., teenager, "gun" dad, but there is plenty of blame to go around. 

Both team's spectators, pre-melee, were acting in a disgusting and unsportsmanlike manner towards each other and game officials.
The coach that received a yellow for dissent/yelling was a poor role model and contributed to elevating the temperature of the game.
The player who started the pushing acted in a severely unsportsmanlike manner.

We were/are one step away from carnage. It's time to put the hammer down and stop this madness.


----------



## greekgirl (Jan 14, 2020)

When I got to work this morning there was a company-wide email that we are having active shooter training over the next few months. I work in the  medical device industry. I think this is very telling, times are changing.


----------



## professor2020 (Jan 14, 2020)

BruceDern said:


> I agree with what your saying


We should blame the club that focus on winning only. it was bad blood between the 2 teams already . Aztecs and chula vista clubs are  blaming albion for steeling their players. we need to focus on development and cal south should implement Zip code rule and force the clubs and the coaches to get educated to how to develop the kids . we are teachers not coaches .coaches coach college and pro leagues. it  is a shame what is happening to youth soccer . winning is more important than developing .we value the coaches by how many games they  won not by  how many players they develop . Please parents enjoy the journey and have fun with your kids. Yesterday my kids were young and playing around the house ; today they in college playing sports but you always feel that you did not spend enough time with them.


----------



## espola (Jan 14, 2020)




----------



## timbuck (Jan 14, 2020)

Wow.  That news clip. 
lots of video of what happened.
But the fact that they mentioned the score of the game-  is that really important?
And the fact that the club has tryouts the next day?
I think if our team ran scrambling from a threat of gunfire, we might take a few days off.


----------



## watfly (Jan 14, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Wow.  That news clip.
> lots of video of what happened.
> But the fact that they mentioned the score of the game-  is that really important?
> And the fact that the club has tryouts the next day?
> I think if our team ran scrambling from a threat of gunfire, we might take a few days off.


Albion is in damage control mode and placing the sole blame on the kid that ran on the field ( based on comments from NG and ZK).  Great job on playing the victim card, despite reports that Albion parents participated in the melee.  So many points in this whole situation that an adult(s) could have done the right thing.   Its not too late now, but unfortunately its likely to be just swept under the rug.  Player safety is a myth in youth soccer, as is adult accountability across the board from Clubs, Docs, Coaches, Parents and Refs.


----------



## Stryprod (Jan 14, 2020)

espola said:


>


Excellent video and shows referee was attempting to manage the situation - good job ref!

*I want to really highlight is the following:*
Action was near the goal on the right side of the field (looking from spectators towards coaches) and can be seen in the video
Man with "gun" is on left side of field AWAY from action and any immediate threat of harm. Hard and faint to see, but look at 1:21-1:23 and you can see him.

*Important Questions to Ask:*
Which side of the field were the Azteca fans, and which were the Albion?
Why was this guy on the left side?
Why are there spectators near this guy on the left side of the field that seem to be in the video with the Albion coach?

Still some fog.


----------



## younothat (Jan 14, 2020)

soccercon said:


> Fight, Gun Scare at Soccer Match Lead to Panic
> 
> 
> A soccer match in Temecula that devolved into a brawl led to mass panic after someone said they had a gun. Tony Shin reported on NBC4 News at 5 p.m. on Monday, Jan. 13, 2020.
> ...


The


timbuck said:


> Wow.  That news clip.
> lots of video of what happened.
> But the fact that they mentioned the score of the game-  is that really important?
> And the fact that the club has tryouts the next day?
> I think if our team ran scrambling from a threat of gunfire, we might take a few days off.


The whole mess is a microcosm of what's wrong in today youth sports business.  

Way too much vesting in a kids game by parents, siblings, coaches, etc. There is always people mad, unhappy about something and they have to shout, scream, and argue about the smallest things sometimes.

This was a case of snowball that created a avalanche without any order or people managing the situation rationally. There are standards, code of conducts, procedures, etc to follow but very few people are really doing due diligence about them so you get mayhem like what never should have snowballed like it did.  Field Marshall's should have been taking care of this or something. 

Parents & families on both the teams in question should really get some counseling  & appropriate conduct training before they attend any future events.  So goes for the Coaches and others involved,  complete a reeducation course or something like what is done for traffic violations/ traffic school, get cleared before they allowed to participate again.


----------



## met61 (Jan 14, 2020)

46n2 said:


> The result of the fight at the tournament was a direct result of Parents and Siblings "POLICING THEMSELVES"
> 
> It happens too often in soccer now , Im around a lot of games tournaments and showcases and let me say , there is little to no respect for officials or coaches, so if some person that just joins this forums hours after this melee happens and says that we need to police ourselves and take matters into out own hands, I disagree with his statement , thats the direct cause of the problem .   You have to respect the system in place.
> 
> ...


Rather than labeling someone a "dummy"...this is more civil and classier response to an opinion and experience that differs from your own. Thanks.


----------



## BIGD (Jan 14, 2020)

watfly said:


> Albion is in damage control mode and placing the sole blame on the kid that ran on the field ( based on comments from NG and ZK).  Great job on playing the victim card, despite reports that Albion parents participated in the melee.  So many points in this whole situation that an adult(s) could have done the right thing.   Its not too late now, but unfortunately its likely to be just swept under the rug.  Player safety is a myth in youth soccer, as is adult accountability across the board from Clubs, Docs, Coaches, Parents and Refs.


So the power to force change lies with parents and referees.  Youth soccer needs both to exist.  What are we prepared to do about this beyond griping on a forum?   Let's be real with ourselves; if we think this was totally unacceptable and our players safety is really at risk, why are we not willing to remove our children from the environment?   Which families are willing to back of out State Cup?   Take a break from club soccer?  What are the referee associations willing to do; they take the brunt of the toxic parent culture.  Are they willing to strike until Cal South hands out consequences for this weekend and in the future?


----------



## watfly (Jan 14, 2020)

BIGD said:


> So the power to force change lies with parents and referees.  Youth soccer needs both to exist.  What are we prepared to do about this beyond griping on a forum?   Let's be real with ourselves; if we think this was totally unacceptable and our players safety is really at risk, why are we not willing to remove our children from the environment?   Which families are willing to back of out State Cup?   Take a break from club soccer?  What are the referee associations willing to do; they take the brunt of the toxic parent culture.  Are they willing to strike until Cal South hands out consequences for this weekend and in the future?


I do more than gripe.

I went directly to the board of a club to address a toxic situation with the support of parents on the team.  At the end of the day, a few families were willing to reveal their identities and confirm my reports.  Unfortunately, the bulk of the families backed out for the fear of repercussions from the club.  Despite well documented evidence of abusive behavior, nothing was done by the club.  We left the club and couldn't be happier.  That's what our family has done.  Every family has to make the decision that's best for them and find the situation they're comfortable with.  However, I know a lot of parents will accept a lot of misbehavior to play on the top or winning team.  Unfortunately, for every family that's willing to take a stand there's 10 families that are willing to play the "game".


----------



## way up (Jan 14, 2020)

professor2020 said:


> We should blame the club that focus on winning only. it was bad blood between the 2 teams already . Aztecs and chula vista clubs are  blaming albion for steeling their players. we need to focus on development and cal south should implement Zip code rule and force the clubs and the coaches to get educated to how to develop the kids . we are teachers not coaches .coaches coach college and pro leagues. it  is a shame what is happening to youth soccer . winning is more important than developing .we value the coaches by how many games they  won not by  how many players they develop . Please parents enjoy the journey and have fun with your kids. Yesterday my kids were young and playing around the house ; today they in college playing sports but you always feel that you did not spend enough time with them.


I so disagree with this! You can aim and work to win without resorting to this crap. Please don't associate great competition and desire to win with poor sportsmanship, juvenile behavior, and violence. If anything, those who really desire to win and perform well should cherish rivalry and hard challenge from great teams. Thats what brings out the best in players and teams. Hard, great competition is a beautiful, amazing thing and has nothing to do with this poor behavior!! We keep score for a reason and kids need to be brought up to keep it on the field of competition. There is a lot of emotion in sports and competition. Again, in high school, home and away fans are separated. 

Score is kept for a reason. There are tryouts for a reason. There are brackets and divisions inside tournaments for a reason. Don't conflate bad behavior from some with great competition and desire to win. It's very unfair!


----------



## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 14, 2020)

BIGD said:


> So the power to force change lies with parents and referees.  Youth soccer needs both to exist.  What are we prepared to do about this beyond griping on a forum?   Let's be real with ourselves; if we think this was totally unacceptable and our players safety is really at risk, why are we not willing to remove our children from the environment?   Which families are willing to back of out State Cup?   Take a break from club soccer?  What are the referee associations willing to do; they take the brunt of the toxic parent culture.  Are they willing to strike until Cal South hands out consequences for this weekend and in the future?


Agreed but there’s to many moving parts to get solidarity out of parents.


----------



## BIGD (Jan 14, 2020)

watfly said:


> I do more than gripe.
> 
> I went directly to the board of a club to address a toxic situation with the support of parents on the team.  At the end of the day, a few families were willing to reveal their identities and confirm my reports.  Unfortunately, the bulk of the families backed out for the fear of repercussions from the club.  Despite well documented evidence of abusive behavior, nothing was done by the club.  We left the club and couldn't be happier.  That's what our family has done.  Every family has to make the decision that's best for them and find the situation they're comfortable with.  However, I know a lot of parents will accept a lot of misbehavior to play on the top or winning team.  Unfortunately, for every family that's willing to take a stand there's 10 families that are willing to play the "game".


Leaving a club or a coach is definitely doing something in a specific situation but I was referencing this recent incident and the entire youth soccer system that's being complained about on this thread.  Although I replied to your comment about the youth system and player safety, I was not directing that question at you.


----------



## Emma (Jan 14, 2020)

Bri’s-DAD said:


> Agreed but there’s to many moving parts to get solidarity out of parents.


If we're going to unite as soccer parents for our kids, this incident should push us to do it.  Hopefully everyone is contacting their DOC and Cal South to inquire about this matter.  Give Cal South, Albion and Azteca a chance to do the right things regarding this matter.  If it's inadequate, we should unite as parents to send a clear message that these sideline behaviors should not be tolerated and handled appropriately.  I'm a fan of Cal South, but would unite behind this to make the youth soccer environment a safer place for our kids and future soccer players.  Albion and Azteca should ban both team's parents from the sidelines for a year.  Cal South should make it a mandatory rule going forward. 

If Albion and Azteca choose to ignore the impact their sidelines' behavior affected all the children at Galway Downs, parents of both Clubs need to contact DOC and start speaking with their wallet.  Move them to a different Club.  There are plenty of great clubs in Southern California.  If you choose to stay with Albion or Azteca, then you're a coward and we'll know that based on what your child is wearing and what sideline you sit on.  

If CalSouth decides not to mandate serious penalties, then we need to remove our teams from CalSouth until they are willing to prioritize our children's safety.  Any team choosing to stay in CalSouth would be accepting that their children can and will be subject to this type of harm.  

As I am a fan generally a fan of these Clubs and CalSouth,  I believe these Clubs and CalSouth will understand the severe harm caused to families and young children from this incident and remedy it.  (Although Ziggy's comments didn't bring much confidence since he didn't address how discipline will be dealt out to his sideline, but I'm sure they are continuing to discuss this matter) Everyone who saw those videos can see the mass fear erupted by unnecessary actions of the sidelines.  One spectator could have been controlled but an eruption of both sidelines created the mass fear.


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## timbuck (Jan 14, 2020)

Does anyone know if any of the people involved in the fight spent any time at the “Silverlakes Field House”?
I like a drink as much as anybody. But I don’t think a bar belongs at a youth soccer complex.


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## forksnbolts (Jan 14, 2020)

BruceDern said:


> Where is Team Azteca located in California? Or are they from Tijuana?


Based out of Walnut.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 14, 2020)

Albion. Do better and take some responsibility. Yes the kid who ran onto the field started it and yes he should face consequences, but please take ownership that your parents were just as eager to run onto the field as the other team.  

There was more talk about tryouts in this clip than there was about mayhem that ensued this weekend. 

Please. Do better. And Cal South...take note. 



espola said:


>


----------



## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 14, 2020)

way up said:


> I so disagree with this! You can aim and work to win without resorting to this crap. Please don't associate great competition and desire to win with poor sportsmanship, juvenile behavior, and violence. If anything, those who really desire to win and perform well should cherish rivalry and hard challenge from great teams. Thats what brings out the best in players and teams. Hard, great competition is a beautiful, amazing thing and has nothing to do with this poor behavior!! We keep score for a reason and kids need to be brought up to keep it on the field of competition. There is a lot of emotion in sports and competition. Again, in high school, home and away fans are separated.
> 
> Score is kept for a reason. There are tryouts for a reason. There are brackets and divisions inside tournaments for a reason. Don't conflate bad behavior from some with great competition and desire to win. It's very unfair!


Children are a direct reflection of their parents.  If they lack sportsmanship, it’s because of their parents.  If they’re respectful and good citizens, it’s because of their parents... The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
Some parents never taught their kids how to compete!  They grew up in the “everyone gets a trophy” era.  Lol


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## oh canada (Jan 14, 2020)

Someone find the bracket that this Azteca team is going to play in for State Cup (assuming they are) and post a link, then let's be patient and see what punishment, if any is handed down by CalSouth.  Hopefully, they are DQ'd from the tournament.

The more I learn/hear, the less culpable I think Albion South is in this ordeal.  Anyone on this board saying that if their 10 year old son or daughter was sucker punched from someone who ran onto the field from the sideline, and would just keep their a** in their Costco folding chair and patiently watch from afar is not being truthful.  Maybe Jane Fonda would because she's the pacifists' pacifist, but I'd lay good money down that 9 out of 10 Dad's/Mom's would do just as you see adults doing in this latest video.  I didn't see any parents swinging, throwing punches or doing anything other than trying to grab and stop the nonsense.  Maybe other video footage shows otherwise?  But under the circumstance, I don't have a problem with parents running onto the field after the sucker-punch.

Agree with other posters saying this could have happened at any tournament---Surf, Galaxy, Legends, Blues etc.---we've all seen similar sideline conduct at all these tournaments.  But, if things end after adults come out on the field and calm things down, nobody hears anything about it because it's become commonplace in youth soccer.  BUT then you get the ultimate moron pretending he has a gun subsequently and chaos ensues.  I don't buy the self-defense argument he has supposedly made--haven't yet seen one video or photo of him in a vulnerable position.  Was "gun" guy wearing a Surf hoodie?   

Last, it would be the responsibility of the refs to calm down the sideline EARLY if too much chatter.  I've seen plenty toss parents or threaten a forfeit for their team if they didn't leave the sideline.  They can't let chirping snowball into constant yelling, or worse running onto the field.  Not sure what happened here.  But nipping in the bud is always a good strategy.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 14, 2020)

Here is the Boys 09 Presidents Cup schedule: 




__





						Cal South Soccer - View Schedule
					






					cysa.affinitysoccer.com
				







oh canada said:


> Someone find the bracket that this Azteca team is going to play in for State Cup (assuming they are) and post a link, then let's be patient and see what punishment, if any is handed down by CalSouth.  Hopefully, they are DQ'd from the tournament.
> 
> The more I learn/hear, the less culpable I think Albion South is in this ordeal.  Anyone on this board saying that if their 10 year old son or daughter was sucker punched from someone who ran onto the field from the sideline, and would just keep their a** in their Costco folding chair and patiently watch from afar is not being truthful.  Maybe Jane Fonda would because she's the pacifists' pacifist, but I'd lay good money down that 9 out of 10 Dad's/Mom's would do just as you see adults doing in this latest video.  I didn't see any parents swinging, throwing punches or doing anything other than trying to grab and stop the nonsense.  Maybe other video footage shows otherwise?  But under the circumstance, I don't have a problem with parents running onto the field after the sucker-punch.
> 
> ...


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## oh canada (Jan 14, 2020)

good work @ItsJustSoccer .  So can we confirm that this is the team (below)?  CalSouth has plenty of time to investigate and kick them out before February 8th.  Someone earlier asked about punishment for the sucker-puncher.  Victim's parents would need to press charges for criminal action, and I don't see that happening unless the Albion kid is severely injured.  Sounds like he's fine from news reports.  So, the sucker-puncher can go down as the kid who got his brother's team kicked out of State Cup--that's a pretty good "Scarlet Letter".  Since they are in Prez division and ranked 2nd, and in the Final of this past game, it's likely a pretty good team with hopes to go far in State Cup.  CalSouth...will you have the courage?  Let's hope so.





__





						Cal South Soccer - View Schedule
					






					cysa.affinitysoccer.com


----------



## Stryprod (Jan 14, 2020)

oh canada said:


> good work @ItsJustSoccer .  So can we confirm that this is the team (below)?  CalSouth has plenty of time to investigate and kick them out before February 8th.  Someone earlier asked about punishment for the sucker-puncher.  Victim's parents would need to press charges for criminal action, and I don't see that happening unless the Albion kid is severely injured.  Sounds like he's fine from news reports.  So, the sucker-puncher can go down as the kid who got his brother's team kicked out of State Cup--that's a pretty good "Scarlet Letter".  Since they are in Prez division and ranked 2nd, and in the Final of this past game, it's likely a pretty good team with hopes to go far in State Cup.  CalSouth...will you have the courage?  Let's hope so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We know certain things but there is still a lot up in the air, so I wouldn't rush to absolve anyone yet. 

*Does anyone know which side was Albion and which side was Azteca?*

The kid who ran out and attacked the player came from the right side of the field, but the "gun" guy was on the left side of the field. In other words, who belonged to who? 

Also real cool that the "gun" guy had ~5 mins to run away towards parking to only come back. Was it all pretend? Did he ditch it or hand it off? We'll probably never know.


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## Fact (Jan 14, 2020)

Emma said:


> It's not a horrible response. It's an honest response.  If you think your natural parental instincts would allow you time to stay calm and digest the situation as your 9/10 year child is being attacked by an older person blindly out of nowhere, then kudos to you but my natural instincts would have been to pull that kid off and knock him out so he can't continue beating up on my kid.  I'd probably get my asked kicked though.  Cleaning porta potties, although a fantastic idea, may not prevent another attack by this teenager in the future.  That teenager learned a good life lesson - you don't attack a younger child during a soccer match with their parents watching.  You'll bear the consequences.
> 
> As for the guy who pretended he had a gun to prevent four people from continuing to beat up on him, let the cops decide whether he was telling the truth or doing the right thing based on their review of the evidence.
> 
> ...


I don't know about that, quit a few people agreed with me. Liked you better as a lurker calling my posts dumb.


----------



## Fact (Jan 14, 2020)

Emma said:


> If we're going to unite as soccer parents for our kids, this incident should push us to do it.  Hopefully everyone is contacting their DOC and Cal South to inquire about this matter.  Give Cal South, Albion and Azteca a chance to do the right things regarding this matter.  If it's inadequate, we should unite as parents to send a clear message that these sideline behaviors should not be tolerated and handled appropriately.  I'm a fan of Cal South, but would unite behind this to make the youth soccer environment a safer place for our kids and future soccer players.  Albion and Azteca should ban both team's parents from the sidelines for a year.  Cal South should make it a mandatory rule going forward.
> 
> If Albion and Azteca choose to ignore the impact their sidelines' behavior affected all the children at Galway Downs, parents of both Clubs need to contact DOC and start speaking with their wallet.  Move them to a different Club.  There are plenty of great clubs in Southern California.  If you choose to stay with Albion or Azteca, then you're a coward and we'll know that based on what your child is wearing and what sideline you sit on.
> 
> ...





watfly said:


> I do more than gripe.
> 
> I went directly to the board of a club to address a toxic situation with the support of parents on the team.  At the end of the day, a few families were willing to reveal their identities and confirm my reports.  Unfortunately, the bulk of the families backed out for the fear of repercussions from the club.  Despite well documented evidence of abusive behavior, nothing was done by the club.  We left the club and couldn't be happier.  That's what our family has done.  Every family has to make the decision that's best for them and find the situation they're comfortable with.  However, I know a lot of parents will accept a lot of misbehavior to play on the top or winning team.  Unfortunately, for every family that's willing to take a stand there's 10 families that are willing to play the "game".


i knew you were a stand up guy ....hmmm.... wonder what club you left, no secret.
Unfortunately there are not enough people like you.


----------



## Fact (Jan 14, 2020)

Emma said:


> I  If you choose to stay with Albion or Azteca, then you're a coward and we'll know that based on what your child is wearing and what sideline you sit on.


So for example, a family with a 16 year old boy on a top team at Albion that has played there since Ulittles and likes his coach, teammates and other families that are all respectful, should pack it in now or they are cowards? Get real.


----------



## Fact (Jan 14, 2020)

Clarification - Which coach got the yellow card?


----------



## Stryprod (Jan 14, 2020)

Fact said:


> Clarification - Which coach got the yellow card?


The coach on the right if looking from spectators towards coaches across the field. I just don't know which side was which, so trying to figure that out.


----------



## ajaxahi (Jan 14, 2020)

I will try to fill in the gaps as best as I can based on what I saw and was told. The Azteca side was the left side as you looked towards the team benches. Just minutes before the fight started, the Azteca coach received a yellow card after he argued a very questionable penalty call (my opinion) that resulted in Albion South getting a goal making the score 3-2 Azteca. Albion‘s first goal had also come on a penalty after Azteca had been winning the game 3-0. Both sides were very emotional at this point.

The teenage kid who ran out and sucker punched the Albion South player was an older sibling of an Azteca player. I don’t know why he ran out from the Albion side but probably because that was the part of the field where the skirmish started between the Azteca forward and Albion defender. As I understand it, after coming onto the field and participating in the melee, the backpack guy, who is an Azteca parent, returned to his seat on the sideline to retrieve his backpack. I don’t know if he ever left the scene. I was told that after making his gun threats he was calmed down advised by others to stay put so the Sheriffs Dept. could sort out his actions by looking at video. He complied with this and was cuffed and put into a car for about an hour while the Sheriffs looked at video and got control of the situation. He was then released and asked if he wanted to press charges against Albion South fans that had allegedly attacked him, which he declined.

And yes, these two teams are both very very good and consistently ranked in the top 5 in SoCal and top 10 nationally. Neither team has a reputation for bad behavior or dirty play that I am aware of. 




Stryprod said:


> We know certain things but there is still a lot up in the air, so I wouldn't rush to absolve anyone yet.
> 
> *Does anyone know which side was Albion and which side was Azteca?*
> 
> ...


----------



## focomoso (Jan 14, 2020)

Bri’s-DAD said:


> Children are a direct reflection of their parents.  If they lack sportsmanship, it’s because of their parents.  If they’re respectful and good citizens, it’s because of their parents... The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.


I'm not sure how wrong a statement can be. Parents can guide their kids and provide the best conditions they can, but everyone is different and deals with stress / conflict differently. For evidence, see any family with one "respectful good citizen" and one not so respectful good citizen.


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## Stryprod (Jan 14, 2020)

ajaxahi said:


> I will try to fill in the gaps as best as I can based on what I saw and was told. The Azteca side was the left side as you looked towards the team benches. Just minutes before the fight started, the Azteca coach received a yellow card after he argued a very questionable penalty call (my opinion) that resulted in Albion South getting a goal making the score 3-2 Azteca. Albion‘s first goal had also come on a penalty after Azteca had been winning the game 3-0. Both sides were very emotional at this point.
> 
> The teenage kid who ran out and sucker punched the Albion South player was an older sibling of an Azteca player. I don’t know why he ran out from the Albion side but probably because that was the part of the field where the skirmish started between the Azteca forward and Albion defender. As I understand it, after coming onto the field and participating in the melee, the backpack guy, who is an Azteca parent, returned to his seat on the sideline to retrieve his backpack. I don’t know if he ever left the scene. I was told that after making his gun threats he was calmed down advised by others to stay put so the Sheriffs Dept. could sort out his actions by looking at video. He complied with this and was cuffed and put into a car for about an hour while the Sheriffs looked at video and got control of the situation. He was then released and asked if he wanted to press charges against Albion South fans that had allegedly attacked him, which he declined.
> 
> And yes, these two teams are both very very good and consistently ranked in the top 5 in SoCal and top 10 nationally. Neither team has a reputation for bad behavior or dirty play that I am aware of.


Thank you, this was the one unknown I had and was baffled why an Azteca kid ran in from the Albion side. What the heck was that kid doing over there? SMH

It feels like it is coming down to pre and post breech of the field.

Both spectators pre-breech are guilty of horrible behavior towards each other and the officials, and both teams deserve to be aggressively punished on that alone, e.g., State Cup ban.

Post-breech, for individuals, we should be talking at a minimum multi-year (minor assualter) to permanent bans ("gun" guy) as well as additional responsibile team punishment, e.g., 6 month ban from Calsouth sanctioned tournaments.

We need to recognize that current punishments are not deterrents as behavior is only getting worse.


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## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 14, 2020)

focomoso said:


> I'm not sure how wrong a statement can be. Parents can guide their kids and provide the best conditions they can, but everyone is different and deals with stress / conflict differently. For evidence, see any family with one "respectful good citizen" and one not so respectful good citizen.


Small percentage to support your evidence.  I’m steadfast on my opinion of children being a reflection of their parents.


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## Emma (Jan 15, 2020)

Fact said:


> ,
> So for example, a family with a 16 year old boy on a top team at Albion that has played there since Ulittles and likes his coach, teammates and other families that are all respectful, should pack it in now or they are cowards? Get real.


It takes a little sacrifice to make a change for the better.  If that's too much to grab your team to go to a different Club - then you are saying comfort and the status quo is sufficient.
To your get real point - It doesn't take every player to make the change, just a decent amount.  People have changed clubs for a lot less reasons - we see it all the time on this board.  There are plenty of players at Albion that are not in this situation and would be able to make that change.  Surf Point Loma & Blast are right around the corner for the youngers.  Rebels & Sharks ECNL would like some great players from the girls programs.  NOMADS DA would love some boys from Albion DA programs. 

I hope there are enough parents from Albion who care enough to take action and reach out to Noah Gins. 

 (619) 279-2812 (cell)        ngins@albionsoccer.org 


I hope there are enough parents on this forum who will reach out to Cal South.



*CAL SOUTH EMAIL:

Cindy Quan
President and Chairman
760-887-0131
cquan@calsouth.com

Roy Carlson
Executive Vice President
858-603-5402
rcarlson@calsouth.com

Jerry Selby
Vice President of Youth
jselby@calsouth.com

District 5 Commissioner
(San Bernardino/Riverside Counties)
Louie De La Cruz
760-244-6878 – ldelacruz@calsouth.com

District 1 Commissioner
(San Diego/Imperial Counties)
Robert Pennoyer
619-988-5499 – rpennoyer@calsouth.com*


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 15, 2020)

Still no official statement from Albion or Cal South? 

I understand that the investigation is still on-going but it is in poor taste to not release anything. As someone that was at this event, I have personally received no communication or acknowledgement that something happened. 

Has anyone else received anything?


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## LMULions (Jan 15, 2020)

with all the emphasis everyone places on winning, I sincerely doubt anyone is going to walk-away from a top 10 nationally ranked team to start over with another program.  

Has been a lot of good info here about what happened, I think we're at a point where most of the reports support the others. Its really clear that the fault lay with one older brother, and one adult who despite being released by the police, escalated it with his acting skills.  My question: do either of these teams have a history of previous issues?   If yes, then I consider leaving.  If not, a six-month suspension of the teams, and a lifetime ban for the brother (entire family?) and the bad-actor seem the appropriate response.


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## Dof3 (Jan 15, 2020)

ItsJustSoccer said:


> Still no official statement from Albion or Cal South?
> 
> I understand that the investigation is still on-going but it is in poor taste to not release anything. As someone that was at this event, I have personally received no communication or acknowledgement that something happened.
> 
> Has anyone else received anything?


I haven't either.  I understand the urge to deflect and minimize, but that is not going to work here.  Albion may not, at least institutionally, be responsible for what happened.  But it was their tournament and a coach wearing their patch contributed to the issue, did not act to deescalate in any effective way and has tolerated conduct from parents on that team this year that he should not have.  And I know this from a parent with a kid on the team.  The trouble with deflecting and minimizing is the affected people start to think that the institutions are not getting it, that affected people are not being heard, that the institutions don't really understand what happened.  They need to.  What happened on Sunday should never happen again.  And people can be held accountable for what happened, or - I think more productively - they can be held accountable to take steps to try to keep it from happening again.  What happened was not OK.  So yes, call Cal South.  Call your clubs.  Speak up and encourage them to seize the opportunity to lead.  And to do it now, rather than announcing new initiatives a year from now as part of the settlement of a class action lawsuit.  I don't care about our team's tournament fees.  I don't want anyone's money.  I do want institutions to take ownership of this problem and demand better from themselves, their staff and their customers.  Some people are angry.  Some people are motivated.  Deflecting and minimizing is not going to work with angry and motivated people.


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## outside! (Jan 15, 2020)

After thinking about this for a while, it still seems to me that the backpack gun guy should be charged with a crime. Is it legal to threaten someone with a weapon? Whether or not he actually had a gun, he said he did and threatened people. He should be charged with a crime and prosecuted. It goes without saying that he should be banned for life by CalSouth.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 15, 2020)

Could not have said it better.  As parents we can't let this blow over, our kids deserve better.



Dof3 said:


> I haven't either.  I understand the urge to deflect and minimize, but that is not going to work here.  Albion may not, at least institutionally, be responsible for what happened.  But it was their tournament and a coach wearing their patch contributed to the issue, did not act to deescalate in any effective way and has tolerated conduct from parents on that team this year that he should not have.  And I know this from a parent with a kid on the team.  The trouble with deflecting and minimizing is the affected people start to think that the institutions are not getting it, that affected people are not being heard, that the institutions don't really understand what happened.  They need to.  What happened on Sunday should never happen again.  And people can be held accountable for what happened, or - I think more productively - they can be held accountable to take steps to try to keep it from happening again.  What happened was not OK.  So yes, call Cal South.  Call your clubs.  Speak up and encourage them to seize the opportunity to lead.  And to do it now, rather than announcing new initiatives a year from now as part of the settlement of a class action lawsuit.  I don't care about our team's tournament fees.  I don't want anyone's money.  I do want institutions to take ownership of this problem and demand better from themselves, their staff and their customers.  Some people are angry.  Some people are motivated.  Deflecting and minimizing is not going to work with angry and motivated people.


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## watfly (Jan 15, 2020)

Bri’s-DAD said:


> Small percentage to support your evidence.  I’m steadfast on my opinion of children being a reflection of their parents.


I think sometimes its too easy just to blame the parents.  Generally kids reflect their parents behavior,  but its not at all unusual for kids to be wired differently from their parents.  I know crappy kids that have great parents, and great kids that happen to have crappy parents.

I'm not condoning anything the older sibling did, but it not unusual for kids to lack impulse control.  Likely the sibling is just a bully, but its also plausible that the sibling is overprotective of his little brother (who may have been a bullied himself).  Regardless the child should be punished and if the sibling is also a soccer player he should have his Calsouth card suspended.

The sad thing is that certain adults that have power to do something about it are publicly laying the blame at the feet of what appears to be a young teenager.  Effectively excusing bad parent behavior because of something a kid did is really pathetic.

Emma your takes are usually spot on, but I disagree that most parents would put a beat down on the sibling (assuming that that actually happened and the minor was just simply restrained).  Would I want to put a beat down on the kid, sure, but I would hope most adults would have the impulse control to know that its not OK to smack a minor.  Personally, I would check on my kid first.



ItsJustSoccer said:


> Still no official statement from Albion or Cal South?
> 
> I understand that the investigation is still on-going but it is in poor taste to not release anything. As someone that was at this event, I have personally received no communication or acknowledgement that something happened.
> 
> Has anyone else received anything?


Albion (NG and ZK) have already made their public statements.  "Siblings fault and somebody should really do something about what is happening in youth soccer...and come check out our tryouts."

If Calsouth were an effective organization they would release a statement now that they are taking the incident seriously and are performing a thorough investigation, the results of which will be announced upon completion.  While some of the facts are unknown or in dispute, what can't be disputed is that parents and children were running in fear for their lives resulting from an incident at a U11 game between Azteca and Albion at an Albion tournament.


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## Desert Hound (Jan 15, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Does anyone know if any of the people involved in the fight spent any time at the “Silverlakes Field House”?
> I like a drink as much as anybody. But I don’t think a bar belongs at a youth soccer complex.


You are entirely off base here amigo. It is about the only thing that makes going to Silverlakes bearable. Nice setup in there. Nothing better than watching a little football, sucking down an IPA and then heading out to the field to watch your kid play. 

Parents at games have been fighting for a long time. The vast VAST majority at fields without any onsite bar.


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## Fact (Jan 15, 2020)

Emma said:


> It takes a little sacrifice to make a change for the better.  If that's too much to grab your team to go to a different Club - then you are saying comfort and the status quo is sufficient.
> To your get real point - It doesn't take every player to make the change, just a decent amount.  People have changed clubs for a lot less reasons - we see it all the time on this board.  There are plenty of players at Albion that are not in this situation and would be able to make that change.  Surf Point Loma & Blast are right around the corner for the youngers.  Rebels & Sharks ECNL would like some great players from the girls programs.  NOMADS DA would love some boys from Albion DA programs.
> 
> I hope there are enough parents from Albion who care enough to take action and reach out to Noah Gins.
> ...


Hey Emma - Why don't you write a letter to CalSouth, using your real name, and say that you are pulling your kids out of soccer unless they hold the clubs accountable?


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## Emma (Jan 15, 2020)

Fact said:


> Hey Emma - Why don't you write a letter to CalSouth, using your real name, and say that you are pulling your kids out of soccer unless they hold the clubs accountable?


Quite a few of us have Fact.  I hope you join in.


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## Fact (Jan 15, 2020)

Emma said:


> Quite a few of us have Fact.  I hope you join in.


Don't deflect. Are you saying you wrote a letter to Calsouth and said that you are pulling your kiddos out of soccer if the clubs are not held accountable?


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## Stryprod (Jan 15, 2020)

Is CalSouth aware of the incident? Yes.
Has CalSouth been contacted my multiple individuals? Yes.
Is CalSouth investigating the incident? Yes.
Has CalSouth put out a statement that I'm aware of? No.
Should CalSouth have put out a statement that they are aware and investigating? Yes.

What I've come to learn about most (not all) clubs and soccer organizations is they suck at communication. Regardless, I at least know they are looking into it, so I'm willing to see what happens.

That said, if it is a week before State Cup and nothing has been done, I'll be the first one picketing in front of their offices in Fullerton. I'd hope others would join so at least we could say we tried to make soccer safer for our kids.


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## size_five (Jan 15, 2020)

focomoso said:


> I'm not sure how wrong a statement can be. Parents can guide their kids and provide the best conditions they can, but everyone is different and deals with stress / conflict differently. For evidence, see any family with one "respectful good citizen" and one not so respectful good citizen.


I would agree that a good parent doesn't guarantee a good kid and vice versa, but I would be willing to bet that it's more likely to have a child with bad behavior if the parent has bad behavior and vice versa.  


I guess what I'd say is that a child's values/behavior is not statistically independent of parental values/ behavior


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## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> You are entirely off base here amigo. It is about the only thing that makes going to Silverlakes bearable. Nice setup in there. Nothing better than watching a little football, sucking down an IPA and then heading out to the field to watch your kid play.
> 
> Parents at games have been fighting for a long time. The vast VAST majority at fields without any onsite bar.


People act like there have not been scuffles and fights at youth sporting events before here. To be perfectly honest, the thing that scares me the most is the actions that will be taken, because so many people freak out. No gun was even there. A fight broke out. A delinquent child ran on a field and sucker punched a kid. I went to a junior high in Arizona where there was a fist fight after school on a weekly basis year round. I don't want violence around my kid, but watch the news. It's around us all. Noone wants this at our tournaments, but competition can bring the best and the worst in people. Don't blame winning, drinking, or competition. I would bet a lot of money everyone on the field was sober especially the delinquent that sucker punched a 10 year old.

Now, lawyers are going to find an entry to punish financially, but problem is what was actually damaged? Games were disrupted and people panicked, but again, NO GUN OR WEAPON! I'm sure the embarrassment and stigma on the teams will be painful. The act that started it all was the sucker punch, but you put opposing family on the same side of the field and wonder why altercations get started? The best course of actions if team friction is the issue here would be to separate fans (family). It's not rocket science!


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## Fact (Jan 15, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> Is CalSouth aware of the incident? Yes.
> Has CalSouth been contacted my multiple individuals? Yes.
> Is CalSouth investigating the incident? Yes.
> Has CalSouth put out a statement that I'm aware of? No.
> ...


Please take a picture and post it. Maybe you can get the press to come out.


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## Emma (Jan 15, 2020)

Fact said:


> Don't deflect. Are you saying you wrote a letter to Calsouth and said that you are pulling your kiddos out of soccer if the clubs are not held accountable?


There's no deflection here @Fact.  I answered you clearly.  This issue is important.  It's not about play time, field conditions, whether direct v. possession is better, or how to eliminate all these closed up leagues to create a cheaper SoCal soccer environment.  

This is about kids running for their lives and searching for their parents in fear while they should be enjoy playing their soccer games.  We were lucky no one got trampled and seriously hurt this time, but we might not get so lucky next time and it could be any of our children.

I believe CalSouth and Albion will do the right things and our jobs as customers should be letting them know how important this issue is to us.  

If my children were at Albion, I'd reach out to Noah and let him know that we will not be coming back if the decision is to sweep it under the rug but we will definitely be a committed to the club and believe they really care about the kids if they resolved this incident in a manner that will prevent further incidents.


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## Fact (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> I'm sure the embarrassment and stigma on the teams will be painful. The act that started it all was the sucker punch, but you put opposing family on the same side of the field and wonder why altercations get started? The best course of actions if team friction is the issue here would be to separate fans (family). It's not rocket science!


Trust me, this will all be forgotten by the second week of State Cup, other than the people from teams that were not involved and truly traumatized.  Calsouth, the clubs and teams involved will brush it off and move on. I am not saying this is right, just what has happened in the past.

Separating fans seems like such a simple solution, unfortunately no one ever enforces it and you always get the parents that go on the free world rant.  Calsouth should make this a rule and not let it up to the leagues and make parents sign an agreement at the beginning of the season so that they cannot claim that they did not know.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jan 15, 2020)

Emma said:


> Quite a few of us have Fact.  I hope you join in.


Being serious as well as jokingly, I hope Albion does not have the same council representation as Surf. If so, they will muddle this situation and manipulate Cal South.


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## Fact (Jan 15, 2020)

Emma said:


> There's no deflection here @Fact.  I answered you clearly.  This issue is important.  It's not about play time, field conditions, whether direct v. possession is better, or how to eliminate all these closed up leagues to create a cheaper SoCal soccer environment.
> 
> This is about kids running for their lives and searching for their parents in fear while they should be enjoy playing their soccer games.  We were lucky no one got trampled and seriously hurt this time, but we might not get so lucky next time and it could be any of our children.
> 
> ...


Still did not answer the question of whether you are quitting soccer if Calsouth does not take action.  But that was a given.

Also, nice how you completely ignore the other team that was involved and probably more culpable.  Why do you fail to mention the Aztecs?  Is it because you hate Albion and want to see their demise?  I am not a fan of Noah but at least I can be objective and realize that these types of incidents (minus the gun guy and resulting panic of innocent families) happens all the time and yet little too no action results.


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## Fact (Jan 15, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Being serious as well as jokingly, I hope Albion does not have the same council representation as Surf. If so, they will muddle this situation and manipulate Cal South.


They don't but he is in the same class.


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## Grace T. (Jan 15, 2020)

LMULions said:


> My question: do either of these teams have a history of previous issues?   If yes, then I consider leaving.


What do you mean by "issue"  If you watch the videos on youtube of either team, you'll note neither team hits the exemplary of what sidelines should behave like.



watfly said:


> Emma your takes are usually spot on, but I disagree that most parents would put a beat down on the sibling (assuming that that actually happened and the minor was just simply restrained).  Would I want to put a beat down on the kid, sure, but I would hope most adults would have the impulse control to know that its not OK to smack a minor.  Personally, I would check on my kid first.


The law recognizes the right to defend another, but as I outlined above there are limitations.  The possible responses range from: putting yourself between the and taking the beating, separating them, taking the beating and responding back proportionately, sucker punching back, smacking the crap out of the assailant, smacking the crap out of the assailant including once he's down or retreated, and pulling a weapon on the assailant.  Considering the response must be reasonable and proportionate, some of these are more o.k. than others.  I don't think we've seen a video of the parent intervention, and even if we had, my guess is this probably lies in the grey area in the middle of the spectrum, which would mean you both have a point and reasonable people would disagree. And yes, the fact that an assailant was a minor changes things, but so does the fact that the victim was a minor (who was also engaged in an altercation on the field).  The relative sizes of individuals too might also be relevant, as what others were doing to protect the minor victim.



way up said:


> Now, lawyers are going to find an entry to punish financially, but problem is what was actually damaged?


Yes, yes we will....whenever lawyers get involved things always get a little worse (and BTW, assuming no actual physical injury in the fleeing by anyone, the law recognizes emotional and mental damages...they have to be serious but that's what a good lawyer does).

I am surprised that to date CalSouth hasn't released something saying they are investigating the issue and will release a statement in due course, but I'd venture part of the reason is they are probably vetting the response with counsel since it has legal implications for things going forward.  That said, pickett?  Let me know when and where.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jan 15, 2020)

Fact said:


> They don't but he is in the same class.


No bueno. Hopefully they are not a poster on the forum trying to convince us otherwise.


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## Lambchop (Jan 15, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> My hope is the "official" video camera on pole at the game was recording to identify all involved.
> 
> A good quality photo of the individual has been shared with the Riverside Sherriff's Department as well as tournament officials.
> 
> Between that and knowing the team, hopefully they find this individual (if not already) and prosecute to the full extent.





blam said:


> The other issue is 2nd amendment. The 2nd amendment original purpose is to allow States to call up their militia so that they could battle against the United States Armed Forces should they decide to leave the union. Back then, muskets and bayonets may be enough to bring down the US Army. Today, people use this law to buy toys like hunting gear. These rifles or hand guns can do nothing when the enemy is the US Armed Forces. 2nd amendment should allow the militia men to get heavier gears like Tanks, Anti Aircraft guns, Bombers etc. etc. We need to rethink the 2nd amendment. The way the 2nd amendment is used today, the state militia would be powerless against the US Armed Forces. With the law only allowing hand held weapons, I don't know how we can use it to defeat the Union if there is a need in the future. Ideas? Seem like not worth the trouble of even keeping this law given all the problem it is causing(random shootings) and no clear sight of it even having a chance to achieve its original intent(defeating the US Armed Forces).
> 
> "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "


The interesting thing about stupidity is that when you are stupid you don't know it.


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## Fact (Jan 15, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> No bueno. Hopefully they are not a poster on the forum trying to convince us otherwise.


Coaches at Albion have told me that he does look at this site, but I am not sure if he has a screen name.


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## Kicker4Life (Jan 15, 2020)

Contacting the News Outlets that ran the story is another way to put pressure on CalSouth!


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## Dof3 (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> People act like there have not been scuffles and fights at youth sporting events before here. To be perfectly honest, the thing that scares me the most is the actions that will be taken, because so many people freak out. No gun was even there. A fight broke out. A delinquent child ran on a field and sucker punched a kid. I went to a junior high in Arizona where there was a fist fight after school on a weekly basis year round. I don't want violence around my kid, but watch the news. It's around us all. Noone wants this at our tournaments, but competition can bring the best and the worst in people. Don't blame winning, drinking, or competition. I would bet a lot of money everyone on the field was sober especially the delinquent that sucker punched a 10 year old.
> 
> Now, lawyers are going to find an entry to punish financially, but problem is what was actually damaged? Games were disrupted and people panicked, but again, NO GUN OR WEAPON! I'm sure the embarrassment and stigma on the teams will be painful. The act that started it all was the sucker punch, but you put opposing family on the same side of the field and wonder why altercations get started? The best course of actions if team friction is the issue here would be to separate fans (family). It's not rocket science!


Respectfully, this is spoken like someone who wasn't there and who is missing the point entirely.  People _BELIEVED_ he had a gun.  I believed there was a gun because hundreds of people came running at me in desperate fear saying there was a gun and someone was shooting.  My daughter and her friends who jumped the fences and banged on the windows of a stranger's house begging to be let in believed he had a gun.  There were plenty of fights in my school growing up, too.  Not one of them sent 1,000 people running for shelter.  What are the damages?  There are kids in counseling this week.  And this isn't some 2020 everybody needs a therapist stuff.  This is real and lasting anxiety.  I hope you never hear in the voice of someone you love what I heard in my daughter's voice when she was able to borrow a phone and tell me where she was.  What are the damages?  That is not the legal question - and I can tell you that because I am a lawyer.  There are plenty of damages.  If you don't see that there are dangerous and growing problems on the sidelines of youth sports, then your experience has been fortunate and rare.  But you are on this forum, so you must have an interest.  Nobody brings their kids to the field to win money in litigation.  That is not the point.  That is certainly not my point.  I want a better opportunity for kids to learn the intangibles that sports offer.  To learn teamwork.  To learn perseverance.  To build confidence.  I did not register them in sports to learn that it is best not to run in a straight line if a gunman is behind you, but I taught them that this weekend.  Be part of a solution.


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## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> Respectfully, this is spoken like someone who wasn't there and who is missing the point entirely.  People _BELIEVED_ he had a gun.  I believed there was a gun because hundreds of people came running at me in desperate fear saying there was a gun and someone was shooting.  My daughter and her friends who jumped the fences and banged on the windows of a stranger's house begging to be let in believed he had a gun.  There were plenty of fights in my school growing up, too.  Not one of them sent 1,000 people running for shelter.  What are the damages?  There are kids in counseling this week.  And this isn't some 2020 everybody needs a therapist stuff.  This is real and lasting anxiety.  I hope you never hear in the voice of someone you love what I heard in my daughter's voice when she was able to borrow a phone and tell me where she was.  What are the damages?  That is not the legal question - and I can tell you that because I am a lawyer.  There are plenty of damages.  If you don't see that there are dangerous and growing problems on the sidelines of youth sports, then your experience has been fortunate and rare.  But you are on this forum, so you must have an interest.  Nobody brings their kids to the field to win money in litigation.  That is not the point.  That is certainly not my point.  I want a better opportunity for kids to learn the intangibles that sports offer.  To learn teamwork.  To learn perseverance.  To build confidence.  I did not register them in sports to learn that it is best not to run in a straight line if a gunman is behind you, but I taught them that this weekend.  Be part of a solution.


Someone can act like they have a gun anywhere, anytime. How do you stop that? I don't know the legalities on faking a weapon without a real illegal purpose? That action is what caused what you are describing, but how can the tournament, club, etc. stop this action? Anyone with a backpack can do this.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 15, 2020)

Agree completely, this response was spot on. 
Once my kids' school got wind of this incident on Monday, they have offered counseling services to any child that was in attendance at this tournament.  Clearly the schools, that weren't there, have an understanding of the severity of the situation....lets hope Cal South gets on board. 



Dof3 said:


> Respectfully, this is spoken like someone who wasn't there and who is missing the point entirely.  People _BELIEVED_ he had a gun.  I believed there was a gun because hundreds of people came running at me in desperate fear saying there was a gun and someone was shooting.  My daughter and her friends who jumped the fences and banged on the windows of a stranger's house begging to be let in believed he had a gun.  There were plenty of fights in my school growing up, too.  Not one of them sent 1,000 people running for shelter.  What are the damages?  There are kids in counseling this week.  And this isn't some 2020 everybody needs a therapist stuff.  This is real and lasting anxiety.  I hope you never hear in the voice of someone you love what I heard in my daughter's voice when she was able to borrow a phone and tell me where she was.  What are the damages?  That is not the legal question - and I can tell you that because I am a lawyer.  There are plenty of damages.  If you don't see that there are dangerous and growing problems on the sidelines of youth sports, then your experience has been fortunate and rare.  But you are on this forum, so you must have an interest.  Nobody brings their kids to the field to win money in litigation.  That is not the point.  That is certainly not my point.  I want a better opportunity for kids to learn the intangibles that sports offer.  To learn teamwork.  To learn perseverance.  To build confidence.  I did not register them in sports to learn that it is best not to run in a straight line if a gunman is behind you, but I taught them that this weekend.  Be part of a solution.


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## Emma (Jan 15, 2020)

Fact said:


> Still did not answer the question of whether you are quitting soccer if Calsouth does not take action.  But that was a given.
> 
> Also, nice how you completely ignore the other team that was involved and probably more culpable.  Why do you fail to mention the Aztecs?  Is it because you hate Albion and want to see their demise?  I am not a fan of Noah but at least I can be objective and realize that these types of incidents (minus the gun guy and resulting panic of innocent families) happens all the time and yet little too no action results.


@Fact - you're talking like Espola right now.  (Sorry Espola - you do make me laugh).  Yes, I did contact Calsouth and let them know my children will not be playing Calsouth soccer if this will be ignored. I also know others who have done the same. I'm hoping more will too.  There are other leagues (NPL), futsal, and indoors.

I failed to mention Aztecas only in the last few because of Ziggy's interview but I've always defended the Albion parent and consistently said both sidelines should be punished bc there was no need for anyone but the Albion parent of the attacked child to run into the field.

I don't know anything about what happened to the guy with the gun except that the cops decided to release him and asked if he wanted to press charges against Albion South Parents after the cops reviewed evidence.  I'm going to accept that the cops have no reason to protect the "gun yelling guy" and did their job properly while reviewing the evidence.

I like Albion and they will not be destroyed after this.  Noah has done a great job bringing competition to Surf and bringing ASC to San Diego. @Fact, the only person I know who acts like they always want to take Albion down is you and the one time I agree that Albion needs to do something, you seem protective.  I want Albion parents to talk to Noah and let them know how important this issue is to the Albion family.

I'm having a hard time getting consistent info regarding Azteca but I found this email.  Hopefully it works.  Azteca parents probably have the correct information.  Please post it or use it to relay the message that this is not acceptable and you expect them to take action or you'll go to a competitor.  Please send the same message to CalSouth.

interamericasoccer1998@gmail.com <interamericasoccer1998@gmail.com>;

@Fact - let's work together to make sure this doesn't get swept under the rug rather than attack each other for our slight differences.


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## Fact (Jan 15, 2020)

I hope that when I say nothing will be done that will help prevent these issues from happening again, I am saying that out of frustration.  It is inexcusable when any coach see a player or parent act up, coaches act up, parents allow other parents from their team act up, parents don't have consequences for their kiddos taking a cheap shot at another player during the game, accepting that smack talking ok, .....


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## Grace T. (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> Someone can act like they have a gun anywhere, anytime. How do you stop that? I don't know the legalities on faking a weapon without a real illegal purpose? That action is what caused what you are describing, but how can the tournament stop this action? Anyone with a backpack can do this.


  There are 2 separate questions.  One is the legality of faking a gun.  This triggers a bunch of potential civil and criminal liabilities for the individual faking it, but in this case the guy is claiming as a defense that he acted in self-defense out of fear for his safety.  Whether he did or didn't (and what role he had in instigating things) we just don't know right now and is a question of fact.  Even if the cops let him go, the DA might still be reviewing. 

Then there's the liability of the venue and organizers.  The problem there is the main claim is going to be negligence.  The questions there include is could something like this have been foreseen (given the state of the sidelines today it was only a matter of time, but especially after this incident that's going to be hard to get around in the future), and what steps are reasonable for the venue/event to take.  Should there be metal detectors before coming onto the field (like there are at theme parks and sporting venues now)?  Should bags be banned (like at sporting venues)?  What about exits if people were having to climb over fences to get away?  What about field conditions if people were tripping over holes to get away?  What about field marshals...how quickly did they respond and how quick were the police to get there and what level of training did the field marshals have?  Were the field marshals trained in evacuating people in the event of an emergency?  Were the teams notified of evacuation routes and evacuation procedures (like we do with cruise ships and airplanes)?  Was it acceptable to have no security there, and does that security need to be armed?  There aren't any clear answers on this but it's a shifting line as things evolve (stadiums banning bags for example is a recent thing after the Uk stadium bombings).

A lot of the changes will likely be driven by insurers who will exclude liability for events if certain steps aren't taken (and venue owners will insist on the insurance because they don't want to be held  responsible for someone else's decisions).


----------



## timbuck (Jan 15, 2020)

Can anyone confirm how old the kid was that ran in from the sidelines?
And was the guy that claimed to have a gun a parent?  (Could be another relative, family friendly, etc).


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## Stryprod (Jan 15, 2020)

Fact said:


> I hope that when I say nothing will be done that will help prevent these issues from happening again, I am saying that out of frustration.  It is inexcusable when any coach see a player or parent act up, coaches act up, parents allow other parents from their team act up, parents don't have consequences for their kiddos taking a cheap shot at another player during the game, accepting that smack talking ok, .....


Fact, I understand why you are goading others that say they are going to do X-Z if CalSouth doesn't act because talk is cheap. I also understand why you feel nothing will be done given the past. It all makes sense. But I am happier to see you're human, agree on the severity of this issue, and are frustrated like us.

Maybe instead of focusing on the negative or going after those that at least express a desire to change, maybe focus that energy to support those that want to make a difference - or just leave it be. 

If this incident doesn't make a difference, then the only step next is an actual shooting. I don't want it to get there.


----------



## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> There are 2 separate questions.  One is the legality of faking a gun.  This triggers a bunch of potential civil and criminal liabilities for the individual faking it, but in this case the guy is claiming as a defense that he acted in self-defense out of fear for his safety.  Whether he did or didn't (and what role he had in instigating things) we just don't know right now and is a question of fact.  Even if the cops let him go, the DA might still be reviewing.
> 
> Then there's the liability of the venue and organizers.  The problem there is the main claim is going to be negligence.  The questions there include is could something like this have been foreseen (given the state of the sidelines today it was only a matter of time, but especially after this incident that's going to be hard to get around in the future), and what steps are reasonable for the venue/event to take.  Should there be metal detectors before coming onto the field (like there are at theme parks and sporting venues now)?  Should bags be banned (like at sporting venues)?  What about exits if people were having to climb over fences to get away?  What about field conditions if people were tripping over holes to get away?  What about field marshals...how quickly did they respond and how quick were the police to get there and what level of training did the field marshals have?  Were the field marshals trained in evacuating people in the event of an emergency?  Were the teams notified of evacuation routes and evacuation procedures (like we do with cruise ships and airplanes)?  Was it acceptable to have no security there, and does that security need to be armed?  There aren't any clear answers on this but it's a shifting line as things evolve (stadiums banning bags for example is a recent thing after the Uk stadium bombings).
> 
> A lot of the changes will likely be driven by insurers who will exclude liability for events if certain steps aren't taken (and venue owners will insist on the insurance because they don't want to be held  responsible for someone else's decisions).


They will have to investigate and figure some things out, but at the end of the day, it started with a sucker punch and some guy faking a gun and no gun shots were heard and no gun was pointed. Lawyers on both sides will hash this out, but I think the kid who threw the punch should be liable and since he's a minor, it would be his parents. Of course, lawyers want more money, so they will throw everything they can in the picture. No way the venue could have foreseen a guy faking a gun or a crowd that panicked. Maybe putting opposing parents so close to each other is a bad idea?? Again, separating home and away teams is the best way to avoid friction!

Oh well, that's my main point. Separating teams not coaches from teams and putting liability on the ones who actually caused the damages. Sucker punch and fake gun Louie assisted in causing the panick. They'll have to review videos to see if the arguments on the side were cringey enough to consider violence could stem from them? What a mess!


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## Stryprod (Jan 15, 2020)

Emma said:


> @Fact - you're talking like Espola right now.  (Sorry Espola - you do make me laugh).  Yes, I did contact Calsouth and let them know my children will not be playing Calsouth soccer if this will be ignored. I also know others who have done the same. I'm hoping more will too.  There are other leagues (NPL), futsal, and indoors.
> 
> I failed to mention Aztecas only in the last few because of Ziggy's interview but I've always defended the Albion parent and consistently said both sidelines should be punished bc there was no need for anyone but the Albion parent of the attacked child to run into the field.
> 
> ...


Having spoken with an official from Temecula PD (Riverside SD), the "gun" guy was let go because he had no weapon on him (at that time) and nobody present to contradict "gun" guy's story (under threat and grabbing a cell phone). Taking the authorities story at face value, that no one contradicted the story at that time blows me away, but then again everyone went running and perhaps those directly involved in the melee did not want to self-incriminate themselves. 

Either way, authorities are reviewing all provided material as it comes in to better connect the dots. What will come of it? No clue.


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## KONI (Jan 15, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> Respectfully, this is spoken like someone who wasn't there and who is missing the point entirely.  People _BELIEVED_ he had a gun.  I believed there was a gun because hundreds of people came running at me in desperate fear saying there was a gun and someone was shooting.  My daughter and her friends who jumped the fences and banged on the windows of a stranger's house begging to be let in believed he had a gun.  There were plenty of fights in my school growing up, too.  Not one of them sent 1,000 people running for shelter.  What are the damages?  There are kids in counseling this week.  And this isn't some 2020 everybody needs a therapist stuff.  This is real and lasting anxiety.  I hope you never hear in the voice of someone you love what I heard in my daughter's voice when she was able to borrow a phone and tell me where she was.  What are the damages?  That is not the legal question - and I can tell you that because I am a lawyer.  There are plenty of damages.  If you don't see that there are dangerous and growing problems on the sidelines of youth sports, then your experience has been fortunate and rare.  But you are on this forum, so you must have an interest.  Nobody brings their kids to the field to win money in litigation.  That is not the point.  That is certainly not my point.  I want a better opportunity for kids to learn the intangibles that sports offer.  To learn teamwork.  To learn perseverance.  To build confidence.  I did not register them in sports to learn that it is best not to run in a straight line if a gunman is behind you, but I taught them that this weekend.  Be part of a solution.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> ...


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## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> Having spoken with an official from Temecula PD (Riverside SD), the "gun" guy was let go because he had no weapon on him (at that time) and nobody present to contradict "gun" guy's story (under threat and grabbing a cell phone). Taking the authorities story at face value, that no one contradicted the story at that time blows me away, but then again everyone went running and perhaps those directly involved in the melee did not want to self-incriminate themselves.
> 
> Either way, authorities are reviewing all provided material as it comes in to better connect the dots. What will come of it? No clue.


Wait a minute! Is it possible someone just THOUGHT the gun guy was pulling out a gun when he was pulling out a cell phone and that someone yelled "he's got a gun"??


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## Emma (Jan 15, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> Having spoken with an official from Temecula PD (Riverside SD), the "gun" guy was let go because he had no weapon on him (at that time) and nobody present to contradict "gun" guy's story (under threat and grabbing a cell phone). Taking the authorities story at face value, that no one contradicted the story at that time blows me away, but then again everyone went running and perhaps those directly involved in the melee did not want to self-incriminate themselves.
> 
> Either way, authorities are reviewing all provided material as it comes in to better connect the dots. What will come of it? No clue.


I'm surprised they were willing to take a potential criminal's words without supporting facts.    Either way, I hope Temecula PD & RSD are taking this matter seriously and charge the person if they find evidence contrary to his statement.  The least they can file against him is making a false statement to police officers. 

CalSouth is looking into this matter and collecting evidence.  I think they have to get their ducks in a row before dolling out punishment as they may be liable if they don't do their due diligence before reacting.  You are correct - they should release a statement informing soccer parents of their plans. 

@lastman This is going to be tougher to sweep under the rug if we continue to keep the subject alive.  The other things  you are referring to (if I'm on the same page) were easier for CalSouth to stay quiet about because they didn't affect so many different Clubs across CalSouth.


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## watfly (Jan 15, 2020)

To me the legal aspects of this incident are largely irrelevant.  Youth soccer should take care of its own business regardless of what the PD does.  If you don't regulate your own activities there could be a municipality or gov't agency that will.  I don't think any of us want metal detectors and clear bags at soccer tournaments.


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## Stryprod (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> Wait a minute! Is it possible someone just THOUGHT the gun guy was pulling out a gun when he was pulling out a cell phone and that someone yelled "he's got a gun"??


Must be easy to be a keyboard quarterback when it is not your loved ones under potential threat.

Outside of pulling a gun out, he was doing everything in his power to pretend he had a gun. Why is that so hard to understand?

This individual walked over to grab his bag. Picked it up, unzipped it, stuck his hand in and kept it there as if grabbing/ holding onto something. He then aggressively moved forward, back, side to side for over a minute while those around him said "no, no" and "don't do it, don't do it". He then finally proceeded to flee to the left when someone said gun again and then people were running.

Keep in mind this individual also had time to walk back to the parking lot (or near there) and back for over 5 minutes for being detained. A gun could have just as easily been handed off or dumped. 

Any law enforcement officer in this situation would have had firearms drawn and he'd been instructed to drop the bag slowly. Stop pretending it was something else when you were not even there.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jan 15, 2020)

Emma said:


> @lastman This is going to be tougher to sweep under the rug if we continue to keep the subject alive.  The other things  you are referring to (if I'm on the same page) were easier for CalSouth to stay quiet about because they didn't affect so many different Clubs across CalSouth.


We more than likely are on the same page in regards to situation I am referring to, it just felt like this could be another moment/scenario where nothing is done.


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## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> Must be easy to be a keyboard quarterback when it is not your loved ones under potential threat.
> 
> Outside of pulling a gun out, he was doing everything in his power to pretend he had a gun. Why is that so hard to understand?
> 
> ...


O.k. that disputes his claim. I'm asking. I've only heard what you're saying here, so I'm begging the question. You clearly have evidence or knowledge that he was acting and purposefully motioning like he had a firearm in his bag? I'm only asking if it's possible that he did not act or motion like it was a firearm and instead was just reaching for a cell phone in his bag? Video should show this if it is available, right?


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## Dof3 (Jan 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> To me the legal aspects of this incident are largely irrelevant.  Youth soccer should take care of its own business regardless of what the PD does.  If you don't regulate your own activities there could be a municipality or gov't agency that will.  I don't think any of us want metal detectors and clear bags at soccer tournaments.


I agree.  That is why the interested parties need to recognize this as something different and act before other authorities decide to act.  As I said, angry, motivated people are not quickly dissuaded by deflection.  The best solutions will come from reasonable soccer people who are willing to acknowledge a serious problem, take ownership of their role in it and have the will to address it.  The problem is widespread, but it is not complicated.  Few kids insist on heading the ball when younger than the rules allow because they disagree with the rule.  And this is because there are foreseeable and immediate consequences sufficient to deter the conduct.  If the headed goal was counted, but the player got a warning...well, who thinks that would work?  Enforced rules work all over our society.  Not perfect and not always, but that is hardly a basis to throw up one's hands and say nothing can be done.  Codes of conduct need to be enforced and violators - clubs, coaches, parents, players - need consequences that are sufficient to deter others.


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## Stryprod (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> O.k. that disputes his claim. I'm asking. I've only heard what you're saying here, so I'm begging the question. You clearly have evidence or knowledge that he was acting and purposefully motioning like he had a firearm in his bag? I'm only asking if it's possible that he did not act or motion like it was a firearm and instead was just reaching for a cell phone in his bag? Video should show this if it is available, right?


The majority of the video we have seen was on the right side of the field, unsurprisingly, as that was where the melee was. "Gun" guy was on the left side of the field. There was a pole video cam on the field for "official" game videos. Last I heard the police where trying to access that.

If someone needed their cell phone would they walk to grab their bag, unzip, reach in, grab their phone but never pull it out and walk back towards the action in an aggressive manner for over a minute all while holding their bag with hand in it holding their phone while those around say "no, no" and "don't do it"? No.

I doubt you'd find few there that did not think this guy had or was pretending to have a weapon. You'll only find those that did or did not feel justified in running for their lives.


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## met61 (Jan 15, 2020)

Lambchop said:


> The interesting thing about stupidity is that when you are stupid you don't know it.


TRANSLATION: "Pay attention to me."


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## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

Were you there Stry?


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## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

So there should be witnesses to this which then begs the question of legality. Too many moving parts on this. I'll let the authorities and officials unravel this onion.


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## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 15, 2020)

I’ll agree that generally speaking kids reflect their parents but kids that don’t reflect their parents are more the exception and not the rule.  I’m not wavering in my opinion but will concede that fact.  I can see my opinion taking us down a “nature vs nurture” debate but that’s a rabbit hole I don’t want to jump down.


watfly said:


> I think sometimes its too easy just to blame the parents.  Generally kids reflect their parents behavior,  but its not at all unusual for kids to be wired differently from their parents.  I know crappy kids that have great parents, and great kids that happen to have crappy


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## Stryprod (Jan 15, 2020)

m0relife said:


> He's mentioned a few times that he was there and saw the incident unfold


That is correct.


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## focomoso (Jan 15, 2020)

Bri’s-DAD said:


> Small percentage to support your evidence.  I’m steadfast on my opinion of children being a reflection of their parents.


Being steadfast on something that is clearly wrong seems... silly, but you be you. Someday you should meet my kids.


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## oh canada (Jan 15, 2020)

@Emma , honest question...what would you have Albion do at this point?  They are limited in their authority.  They could suspend Azteca from future Albion tournaments--big deal.  And, of course, could suspend players/parents on their own team but at this point the punk kid and gun guy appear to be the primary culpable parties.  From their perspective (from interviews), their player got jumped, parents ran onto the field to restrain, then gun guy mouths off and causes "kids to run into houses" (didn't know there are houses at Galway?)  As a good will gesture, they could offer discounted access to a future tournament to the teams that were still at the fields at the time, but that's not going to discourage the behavior in question.

  CalSouth holds most/all the power for real sanctions.  Give them till February to announce.  There's no way that gun guy is the father of the little punk, right?  Hmmm...wouldn't that be ironic.

Note:  for newbies reading this, I have no affiliation with Albion nor any San Diego club.


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## full90 (Jan 15, 2020)

I’m not a Noah gins fan at all. I find him arrogant and only interested in making money and not the best interests of the kids or his coaches.
The age groups my kids competed against had Albion teams with awful parents. But that’s true of lots of clubs and different teams.

that being said, what should Albion have done differently? Kids scuffle. Teen sucker punch. Albion parents run out to intervene. Azteca dad is stupid.

I don’t understand how Albion the organization is to blame? (Or even Azteca for that matter?)
Can someone explain what Albion should’ve done differently and what you’re asking for now?


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## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 15, 2020)

focomoso said:


> Being steadfast on something that is clearly wrong seems... silly, but you be you. Someday you should meet my kids.


I’ve loosened my stance to some kids being the exception to the rule but generally kids reflect their parents.  I’m not saying your point of view is wrong nor am I saying it’s right.  Just because our stance differs doesn’t make it silly, it’s just a difference of opinion.  We’re both entitled to it.


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## forsomuch (Jan 15, 2020)

I'm surprised there wasn't at least one parent at the field complex  who was an armed off duty officer who would have run towards the incident. I know quite a few whose kids played with us over the years who would have.


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## Stryprod (Jan 15, 2020)

forsomuch said:


> I'm surprised there wasn't at least one parent at the field complex  who was an armed off duty officer who would have run towards the incident. I know quite a few whose kids played with us over the years who would have.


There were several Albion officials and/or coaches that came over once the melee broke out to help separate and calm people down. Once the "gun" guy scare occurred, I did not see anyone run towards the action, but we're talking about ~800-1,000 people stampeding.  

There was a rumor that a father in the scuffle had an accidental exposure. There was also a rumor that this person was a LEO. Again, these were rumors and I have not heard/seen concrete evidence to support.


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## Dof3 (Jan 15, 2020)

full90 said:


> I’m not a Noah gins fan at all. I find him arrogant and only interested in making money and not the best interests of the kids or his coaches.
> The age groups my kids competed against had Albion teams with awful parents. But that’s true of lots of clubs and different teams.
> 
> that being said, what should Albion have done differently? Kids scuffle. Teen sucker punch. Albion parents run out to intervene. Azteca dad is stupid.
> ...


You are right that Albion could do little in that moment to stop the teenager from running onto the field and  punching a 10 year old or the reaction of the parents to that event or the guy claiming he had a gun.  The sideline problems are not confined to Albion or Azteca games and this was bound to happen somewhere.  Well, now it has.  What I am asking for now is Albion stepping forward as a voice that says sideline conduct is out of control and actually leading an initiative for change.  My understanding is that Albion's coach and some of its players had yellows in that game and it was clear that things were getting out of hand.  The interview the coach gave indicated that everything was great until the spectator ran on the field.  It wasn't.  The email that Albion sent on Sunday night noting how wonderful its tournament was, but oh by the way there was a "momentary incident" in connection with a "harmless verbal threat" was as much an "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play" moment as I have ever encountered.  Their tournament was ruined.  It ended in disaster.  People were _*hiding*_.  Albion should be incensed instead of deflecting and releasing asinine statements and giving tone-deaf interviews on TV.  They should be demanding sanctioning authorities and peer clubs say "No more."  And they should do it soon because people are getting more and more angry as days are ticking by.


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## Dof3 (Jan 15, 2020)

oh canada said:


> @Emma , honest question...what would you have Albion do at this point?  They are limited in their authority.  They could suspend Azteca from future Albion tournaments--big deal.  And, of course, could suspend players/parents on their own team but at this point the punk kid and gun guy appear to be the primary culpable parties.  From their perspective (from interviews), their player got jumped, parents ran onto the field to restrain, then gun guy mouths off and causes "kids to run into houses" (didn't know there are houses at Galway?)  As a good will gesture, they could offer discounted access to a future tournament to the teams that were still at the fields at the time, but that's not going to discourage the behavior in question.
> 
> CalSouth holds most/all the power for real sanctions.  Give them till February to announce.  There's no way that gun guy is the father of the little punk, right?  Hmmm...wouldn't that be ironic.
> 
> Note:  for newbies reading this, I have no affiliation with Albion nor any San Diego club.


You make my point.  You are right that Albion's public statements reveal that they just don't get it.  And you have to run pretty far to get to the houses at Galway.  Those kids must have been pretty scared to run that far, wouldn't you say?


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## Stryprod (Jan 15, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> You make my point.  You are right that Albion's public statements reveal that they just don't get it.  And you have to run pretty far to get to the houses at Galway.  Those kids must have been pretty scared to run that far, wouldn't you say?


Did Albion actually release a public statement?

I see nothing on their site post-incident except tryouts lol


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## Surf Zombie (Jan 15, 2020)

I’ve been reading this thread. What a horrible situation. Unfortunately bad parent behavior at sporting events has been going on for a long time. Here is a story from near where I grew up in MA. One dad beat another to death during hockey practice in front of the kids.









						Man Released From Mass. Prison After Serving Time for Beating Death of Fellow Hockey Dad
					

A Massachusetts man convicted of killing another father at their sons' hockey practice was reportedly released from prison Thursday after serving eight years behind bars.




					www.google.com


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## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> You are right that Albion could do little in that moment to stop the teenager from running onto the field and  punching a 10 year old or the reaction of the parents to that event or the guy claiming he had a gun.  The sideline problems are not confined to Albion or Azteca games and this was bound to happen somewhere.  Well, now it has.  What I am asking for now is Albion stepping forward as a voice that says sideline conduct is out of control and actually leading an initiative for change.  My understanding is that Albion's coach and some of its players had yellows in that game and it was clear that things were getting out of hand.  The interview the coach gave indicated that everything was great until the spectator ran on the field.  It wasn't.  The email that Albion sent on Sunday night noting how wonderful its tournament was, but oh by the way there was a "momentary incident" in connection with a "harmless verbal threat" was as much an "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play" moment as I have ever encountered.  Their tournament was ruined.  It ended in disaster.  People were _*hiding*_.  Albion should be incensed instead of deflecting and releasing asinine statements and giving tone-deaf interviews on TV.  They should be demanding sanctioning authorities and peer clubs say "No more."  And they should do it soon because people are getting more and more angry as days are ticking by.


O.K., so someone reached out to me that says they were at that game. They said there were no, real abnormal interactions between the two sides during the game. It was an intense final with yellow cards though. A 13 or 14 year old boy runs on the field and suckerpunches a 10 year old kid trying to win a final. This is where it all starts according to my source. This is disturbing to me for obvious reasons and the biggest one is the attacker was 3 to 4 years older and bigger. I can't imagine how I would react if that was my kid.

Now, my source says the attacker was an Azteca fan and the victim boy was an albion chula vista player. I then heard that the gun faking individual was also an Azteca fan. The responsible parties all appear to be in The Azteca Club. That is where the liability falls. First to the individuals and parents and then maybe the club if they don't have rules of conduct for parents to abide by. How is this not assault though? He may be a minor, but his parents are liable for his actions. Lawyers and others with agendas will conflate whatever they can in this, but the bottom line is certain individuals acted poorly regardless what some want blame.

More rules and laws won't change much imo. It's competitive sports and fans get riled up and people should be responsible for their own actions not other people or entities unless they condone and/or allow this type of violent behavior. An Albion player was attacked right? You put two, emotional opposing fans right next to each other on a field and you think club rules are going to keep them from being human? I don't get what Albion did at all and if anything, they are victims. What am I missing?  They don't need to lead the charge about sideline behavior. Fans get excited and always will

Again, the simple solution is to separate team fans with the field. One side for home and one side for away.

Please correct the record here if you were there and any of this is wrong? I'm just going by what someone told me that claimed to be there.


----------



## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> O.K., so someone reached out to me that says they were at that game. They said there were no, real abnormal interactions between the two sides during the game. It was an intense final with yellow cards though. A 13 or 14 year old boy runs on the field and suckerpunches a 10 year old kid trying to win a final. This is where it all starts according to my source. This is disturbing to me for obvious reasons and the biggest one is the attacker was 3 to 4 years older and bigger. I can't imagine how I would react if that was my kid.
> 
> Now, my source says the attacker was an Azteca fan and the victim boy was an albion chula vista player. I then heard that the gun faking individual was also an Azteca fan. The responsible parties all appear to be in The Azteca Club. That is where the liability falls. First to the individuals and parents and then maybe the club if they don't have rules of conduct for parents to abide by. How is this not assault though? He may be a minor, but his parents are liable for his actions. Lawyers and others with agendas will conflate whatever they can in this, but the bottom line is certain individuals acted poorly regardless what some want blame.
> 
> ...


Maybe the powers that be would rather separate coaches from their own parents rather and force the parents to deal with each other?? I don't know, but I do know that we have laws regardless of club rules and one of them is not to assault other people. If people and/or their children can't follow laws that typically result in big fines/jail time/financial liability, you really think club/tournament rules/policies would be the answer? People should be responsible for their actions.


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## Dof3 (Jan 15, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> Did Albion actually release a public statement?
> 
> I see nothing on their site post-incident except tryouts lol


They sent an email to participating clubs, which I saw.


----------



## Fact (Jan 15, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> You are right that Albion could do little in that moment to stop the teenager from running onto the field and  punching a 10 year old or the reaction of the parents to that event or the guy claiming he had a gun.  The sideline problems are not confined to Albion or Azteca games and this was bound to happen somewhere.  Well, now it has.  What I am asking for now is Albion stepping forward as a voice that says sideline conduct is out of control and actually leading an initiative for change.  My understanding is that Albion's coach and some of its players had yellows in that game and it was clear that things were getting out of hand.  The interview the coach gave indicated that everything was great until the spectator ran on the field.  It wasn't.  The email that Albion sent on Sunday night noting how wonderful its tournament was, but oh by the way there was a "momentary incident" in connection with a "harmless verbal threat" was as much an "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play" moment as I have ever encountered.  Their tournament was ruined.  It ended in disaster.  People were _*hiding*_.  Albion should be incensed instead of deflecting and releasing asinine statements and giving tone-deaf interviews on TV.  They should be demanding sanctioning authorities and peer clubs say "No more."  And they should do it soon because people are getting more and more angry as days are ticking by.


I agree with this. Noah and the coach are arrogant and don't get it or also are deflecting.  They are big enough to set an example for other clubs.  But for people to say the entire team should be made an example of is wrong. Just start to hold all teams to the same stricter standard.


----------



## Grace T. (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> They said there were no, real abnormal interactions between the two sides during the game. It was an intense final with yellow cards though.



If a coach got a yellow card, unless the allegation is the ref was being tyrannical and quick to the draw, it doesn't sound like "normal" interactions were going on.  But then what's "normal" these days is very broad these days, from the limited youtubes available of the teams both have a history of being verbal on the sidelines, though it is of course possible that not withstanding that they were not being loud with each other (only at the refs and players).


----------



## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> If a coach got a yellow card, unless the allegation is the ref was being tyrannical and quick to the draw, it doesn't sound like "normal" interactions were going on.  But then what's "normal" these days is very broad these days, from the limited youtubes available of the teams both have a history of being verbal on the sidelines, though it is of course possible that not withstanding that they were not being loud with each other (only at the refs and players).


I heard the coach was disputing an offside's call and it was probably intense and the refs were trying to keep control. Yellow and red cards were invented for a reason. I guarantee hes not the only coach to ever get a yellow. Super intense card flying game.  Still, not illegal. Assault is though.


----------



## Dof3 (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> I heard the coach was disputing an offside's call and it was probably intense and the refs were trying to keep control. Yellow and red cards were invented for a reason. I guarantee hes not the only coach to ever get a yellow. Super intense card flying game.  Still, not illegal. Assault is though.


Right.  Because what is and is not actually criminal should be the standard in youth sports.  That is certainly what I look for in coaches for my kids.  Are you willing to do anything just this side of criminal?  No?  Next!  Because yelling at referees has such a long history of being effective and changing the call so that coaches team can win.  Right?  Doesn't that happen all the time at games you watch?  In many cases it is little more than a temper tantrum and often not even accurate.  "Super intense card flying game."  They were 10 years old.  Maybe don't sound so gleeful.  And your super intense card flying game turned into a thousand people running in fear for their lives.  A little more perspective, maybe?


----------



## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> Right.  Because what is and is not actually criminal should be the standard in youth sports.  That is certainly what I look for in coaches for my kids.  Are you willing to do anything just this side of criminal?  No?  Next!  Because yelling at referees has such a long history of being effective and changing the call so that coaches team can win.  Right?  Doesn't that happen all the time at games you watch?  In many cases it is little more than a temper tantrum and often not even accurate.  "Super intense card flying game."  They were 10 years old.  Maybe don't sound so gleeful.  And your super intense card flying game turned into a thousand people running in fear for their lives.  A little more perspective, maybe?


Yes, I like to stick to facts. Cards were thrown. Were there red cards thrown? Yellow is a warning card no? I'm not arguing about choosing a coach or a club. I'm discussing this incident. Not condoning yelling at referees if that's even what happened??

Gleeful?? What on earth are you talking about? I'm discussing the details and reality.

A thousand people fleed for their lives from a guy on the same team as the older kid who assaulted a young athlete on a field playing in a final? Supposedly he was reaching for a gun? Connect the dots sir!

Young 10 year old gets sucker punched by a non-player 4 years older. Another individual fan on the same team as the attacker fakes having a gun our of a backpack. I guess you want me to focus in on a coach getting a yellow card then and provide and excuse for such violent, foul behavior from one team?? Sorry, but getting a yellow card and disputing calls is nowhere near assault or faking a gun.


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## espola (Jan 15, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> There were several Albion officials and/or coaches that came over once the melee broke out to help separate and calm people down. Once the "gun" guy scare occurred, I did not see anyone run towards the action, but we're talking about ~800-1,000 people stampeding.
> 
> There was a rumor that a father in the scuffle had an accidental exposure. There was also a rumor that this person was a LEO. Again, these were rumors and I have not heard/seen concrete evidence to support.


What is an "accidental exposure"?


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## Grace T. (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> Yes, I like to stick to facts. Cards were thrown. Were there red cards thrown? Yellow is a warning card no? I'm not arguing about choosing a coach or a club. I'm discussing this incident. Not condoning yelling at referees if that's even what happened??


Part of the problem with game management is that refs are reluctant to give reds.  Small community, expressly discouraged from handing out reds in youngers, comes with paperwork and might actually escalate things instead of deescalate.


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## Dof3 (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> Yes, I like to stick to facts. Cards were thrown. Were there red cards thrown? Yellow is a warning card no? I'm not arguing about choosing a coach or a club. I'm discussing this incident. Not condoning yelling at referees if that's even what happened??
> 
> Gleeful?? What on earth are you talking about? I'm discussing the details and reality.
> 
> ...


I am talking about the environmental context of what happened and I am far more interested in steps forward to create an environmental context for youth sports that is not so conducive to events like this specific event occurring in the future.  Nothing can now be done about Sunday and the teenager or the gun guy going to jail is not going to help my kid.  As I noted, we know parents on the Albion team in question and they confirm that there are parents on that particular team that are very much a part of the problem and have been so habitually.  I was there.  My dots are connected.  You might want to connect some dots yourself.  Or you can instead focus on the precise facts of whose conduct was affirmatively criminal in this instance and then we can all debate precisely who is criminally responsible for what if next time it is your kid hiding in a yard afraid her parents are dead.  Until then I am happy to leave to you and others who should be charged with what.


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## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

Dof3 said:


> I am talking about the environmental context of what happened and I am far more interested in steps forward to create an environmental context for youth sports that is not so conducive to events like this specific event occurring in the future.  Nothing can now be done about Sunday and the teenager or the gun guy going to jail is not going to help my kid.  As I noted, we know parents on the Albion team in question and they confirm that there are parents on that particular team that are very much a part of the problem and have been so habitually.  I was there.  My dots are connected.  You might want to connect some dots yourself.  Or you can instead focus on the precise facts of whose conduct was affirmatively criminal in this instance and then we can all debate precisely who is criminally responsible for what if next time it is your kid hiding in a yard afraid her parents are dead.  Until then I am happy to leave to you and others who should be charged with what.


Leave me with this: Did any kids or people stampede out of the complex before the Azteca individual faked having a gun? This seems to be the part you are very focused on and that is most extraordinary. Had this individual not faked having a gun, would your kid and the others panicked and scattered out of the complex?

I'm not looking for opinions or agendas, but I'm focused on the actual event and real causation. The ultimate facts are that there was an assault and a faking of having a gun. Bad game behavior is no excuse for the juvenile, violent, and damaging behavior that ensued after. The same way bars and competing to win have nothing to do with this young man's violent actions. I feel for the kid that was sucker punched by a kid 3 or 4 years older. That was the action that put all of this in motion, period! The rest are excuses.


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## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> Leave me with this: Did any kids or people stampede out of the complex before the Azteca individual faked having a gun? This seems to be the part you are very focused on and that is most extraordinary. Had this individual not faked having a gun, would your kid and the others panicked and scattered out of the complex?
> 
> I'm not looking for opinions or agendas, but I'm focused on the actual event and real causation. The ultimate facts are that there was an assault and a faking of having a gun. Bad game behavior is no excuse for the juvenile, violent, and damaging behavior that ensued after. The same way bars and competing to win have nothing to do with this young man's violent actions. I feel for the kid that was sucker punched by a kid 3 or 4 years older. That was the action that put all of this in motion, period! The rest are excuses.


Please though, correct me if you were there and I'm missing something? I'm putting the story together and don't have an agenda.


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## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

Can someone please tell me why team fans are not separated in club soccer like high school football games? Not saying it will solve the issue, but the farther the space and time between, the less friction possible. What am I missing with this? Sports are competitive and things can get heated. Fights break out all over the place. The police are at many high school football games even with home teams separated from away teams. I can see where club soccer is heading, but really just pointing out that fights and scuffles are common at physical sport games. My other point is that there are laws over and above rules of conduct with more serious consequences.


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## Stryprod (Jan 15, 2020)

espola said:


> What is an "accidental exposure"?


When you are concealed carrying and your firearm inadvertently becomes exposed (no longer concealed).


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## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> When you are concealed carrying and your firearm inadvertently becomes exposed (no longer concealed).


This could really expand the debate. Oh boy! No weapons should be brought to soccer games. My daughter is 8 and I have not seen this chaos everyone speaks of. I can't relate. We can't even instruct our girls per our club. We are to only be positive and encouraging and not to instruct.


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## Stryprod (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> Please though, correct me if you were there and I'm missing something? I'm putting the story together and don't have an agenda.


I'm not sure if you read through all the posts or not, but to me it's as easy as pre and post field breech.

Post-breech, and as details have come out, we clearly know which individuals and team by extension are guilty. Azteca should be in deep stuff for that.

Pre-breech, I can tell you no matter what your source says, the sideline and coach behavior towards each other and/or the game officials was extremely poor and contributed towards bringing the situation to a boiling point. Does this mean it's Albion's fault that a kid attacked their player? Of course not! But you cannot ignore factors that played a part and sweep it under the rug.

The only difference between you and I is that you seem to be okay excusing horrible behavior because it's more common than it should be. What a slippery slope that becomes.


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## Stryprod (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> This could really expand the debate. Oh boy! No weapons should be brought to soccer games. My daughter is 8 and I have not seen this chaos everyone speaks of. I can't relate. We can't even instruct our girls per our club. We are to only be positive and encouraging and not to instruct.


Again, there are only rumors as people there pointed to another individual and said he may have had a gun too. Who knows, but what we do know is what has been discussed this far. 

Honestly, I'm so tired from this all I just hope the right people do the right thing.


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## way up (Jan 15, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> Again, there are only rumors as people there pointed to another individual and said he may have had a gun too. Who knows, but what we do know is what has been discussed this far.
> 
> Honestly, I'm so tired from this all I just hope the right people do the right thing.


Fair enough. I'm not excusing any bad behavior. Words are words, but assault is assault. I'm distinguishing real causation from emotional causation. We are all responsible for our own actions and some appear to be focusing on the emotional aspects of competitive sports rather than the actual violent act imo. Again though, I wasn't there. Tired of the debate myself. Someone else can judge and fairly decide what to do.

Still though, not a peep about separating teams with the field on the sidelines??? There will always be friction at competitive games. It's not by mistake that there is home and away seating for many high school and college games and they STILL have security. Add young kids and aggressive sports and tensions can flare in a second. It is what it is.

Let's put them right next to each other and then get surprised that tensions flare once in a while!


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## Fact (Jan 15, 2020)

way up said:


> Fair enough. I'm not excusing any bad behavior. Words are words, but assault is assault. I'm distinguishing real causation from emotional causation. We are all responsible for our own actions and some appear to be focusing on the emotional aspects of competitive sports rather than the actual violent act imo. Again though, I wasn't there. Tired of the debate myself. Someone else can judge and fairly decide what to do.
> 
> Still though, not a peep about separating teams with the field on the sidelines??? There will always be friction at competitive games. It's not by mistake that there is home and away seating for many high school and college games and they STILL have security. Add young kids and aggressive sports and tensions can flare in a second. It is what it is.
> 
> Let's put them right next to each other and then get surprised that tensions flare once in a while!


Separating the parents does no good because someone always thinks they are above the rules and they are usually the ones that are most likely to get out of hand because they are special and thus of
course so is their precious child that how dare that bad ref call a foul on their darling and how dare that punk win a 50/50 ball against tbejr
baby.  Refs need to enforce the sides, not only when it becomes problem, managers need to make sure their parents know where ro
sit and other parents need to stop minimizing the bad behavior of other parents of their team.


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## timbuck (Jan 15, 2020)

Too busy "affiliating" to worry about a little mass hysteria.








						ALBION AFFILIATE PROGRAM WELCOMES CAL AZTECS • SoccerToday
					

SoccerToday - Voice of American Soccer




					www.soccertoday.com


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## outside! (Jan 16, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Too busy "affiliating" to worry about a little mass hysteria.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are Azteca and Aztecs the same club? They sound like different clubs to me.


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## timbuck (Jan 16, 2020)

Not sure. I wasn’t implying that they were.  But they do sound similar.


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## justneededaname (Jan 16, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Not sure. I wasn’t implying that they were.  But they do sound similar.


They are not. The affiliate is a Bakersfield club called Central California Aztecs. The Aztecs in the incident is the name of a team. The club the team is associated with is called Inter America and is based in LA.


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## Emma (Jan 16, 2020)

Albion and Azteca both need to take action against their sidelines.  Yes, the actions of the teenager started it, but there is no reason for the ENTIRE Albion sideline or Azteca sideline to erupt onto the field.  The sidelines should have stayed put and let the parents of the boy and the refs/coaches take care of it.  If the sidelines stay under control, then it would have been a very manageable situation.  The teenager would have been taken under control and arrested.  Refs would have called the game for Albion South because an Azteca Spectator's violent conduct caused the game to end.  That would have been the end of it and children from other fields could have peacefully finished their day.

We start having mass chaos and violence when the sidelines choose to erupt.  That's not controllable and will cause damage beyond that one initial violent conduct.  

Any Sideline that chooses to jump into the field to contribute & significantly escalate the violent situation, regardless of who started what, should be banned for a year. 

Albion and Azteca both need to come out and say, "We will not allow the sidelines that created the chaos, fear, and emotional damage to hundreds of children at Galway downs during Albion Cup to view State Cup or view their next season's tournaments and league games.   We understand the damage our sideline's actions caused to many children.  Regardless of CalSouth or criminal decisions, we will do our best to make to make our Southern California Soccer Family feel more safe.  Going forward, any ALBION (or Azteca) sideline, that decides to physically impede on the playing field shall be banned games for no less than one year."  

One out of control person can be handled but not a whole sideline.  Even if that guy just ran out onto the field and yell gun, he could have been managed by referees, dads or coaches that knock him over and contain him  but when there's a whole sideline - it's not possible.  

If we want to prevent these problems going forward, we have to let everyone know that it's not a free for all gang fight because one jerk acts up.  Let the referees and coaches manage it to prevent escalation.  

Clubs, like individuals, need to take responsibility for their own groups, not just wait for Cal South.  If your kid steals or gets in a fight, you don't wait for the cops or social workers, you manage it within the family first.

Ziggy's interview was very disappointing because he doesn't accept responsibility for what his sideline's action did to hundreds of children.  He used the initial perpetrator to defend his entire sideline's lack of self control.  It was not one teenager that caused this incident to get out of control.  There will always be fights at soccer games because soccer is a physical and emotional game - that's why we have refs and red cards.   The adults on the sidelines shouldn't have used it to escalate the situation and now everyone wants to blame one or two perpetrators.  Both sidelines own the responsibility.


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## Lmsa (Jan 16, 2020)

So here is the point that everyone is missing. The guy who never pulled out the gun after the melay was left to walk back to the parking lot alone with his back pack returned 15 minutes later. He looked very much at ease talking and allowing his back pack to be searched. It was a smart move on his part because by then roads were closed helicopter flying he would have been searched and car searched aswell this is my opinion. This isn't what I heard it's what I saw I was feet away from it all. There was a boy 16 years old who strongly admitted he saw the gun yet did not want to get involved and talk to the police. Another kid I talked to said he saw the butt of the gun in his hand from within the camouflaged bag. How can people say with certainty it was just a verbal threat. As witness to it all I'm more convinced he had a gun then no gun. I doubt the police went to his car to search it or even the path by the bushes he walked by while walking away. He walked away with the camouflaged bag people only to return 15 minutes later you think he went to get a hot dog or use the restroom I'm smarter then that.


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## way up (Jan 16, 2020)

Lmsa said:


> So here is the point that everyone is missing. The guy who never pulled out the gun after the melay was left to walk back to the parking lot alone with his back pack returned 15 minutes later. He looked very much at ease talking and allowing his back pack to be searched. It was a smart move on his part because by then roads were closed helicopter flying he would have been searched and car searched aswell this is my opinion. This isn't what I heard it's what I saw I was feet away from it all. There was a boy 16 years old who strongly admitted he saw the gun yet did not want to get involved and talk to the police. Another kid I talked to said he saw the butt of the gun in his hand from within the camouflaged bag. How can people say with certainty it was just a verbal threat. As witness to it all I'm more convinced he had a gun then no gun. I doubt the police went to his car to search it or even the path by the bushes he walked by while walking away. He walked away with the camouflaged bag people only to return 15 minutes later you think he went to get a hot dog or use the restroom I'm smarter then that.


This is scary. CCW, off duty police, whatever. Don't bring weapons people!!! Emotions run high at these things and people overreact. Not to mention, mass shootings and such.

Lots of things to consider here, but if I saw a 14 year old boy sucker punch my 10 year old boy while playing soccer on a field in which the 14 year old was not even playing, I would have a hard time staying put. That's 40% older and stronger and who knows if he's using a weapon or what have you. I'm human and when my kid is attacked by someone 40% older, highly doubt I sit there and watch! From what I hear, the Albion crowd was just trying to get the kid who ran and assaulted the athlete away from the victim. I wasn't there, but keeping human reaction real here. It is not logical to think a parent is going to sit and watch their kid get pummeled by an older kid not even playing in the game.

My club demands good sideline etiquette and just about every team we have come across has been pleasant for the most part. Emotions run high and people get loud, but most people remain civil. I'll admit I have not seen this type of violence and aggression at a game, ever. Yellow cards and even red cards will come out. It's why refs. have them. Coaches will dispute calls. Boys will get physical and stand their ground. I like to stick with reality. If the sideline behavior was to the point of insults/threats/etc. , action/discussions etc. should take place. If kids played dirty, the same. I just don't blame passion and support for assault.

What's next? No cheering when your team scores, because the other team's fans gets angry and may assault your kids on the field? No using your body, because a kid may fall and older siblings may run on the field and assault your kid?

I don't know the history of either team or club, but I do know without a doubt that assault is assault and never warranted especially from someone on the sideline. Once assault takes place, people have a right to self defense. Take it from there especially with a 10 year old out muscled by a 14 year old.

If these teams have a history of insulting and threatening teams, refs., etc. then of course, they may need to address sideline behavior. The bottom line remains that there was no stampede or physical altercations pre-breach. Now, verbal threats and insults should not be tolerated and should be addressed, but they do not warrant assault, period!


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## Frank (Jan 16, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Too busy "affiliating" to worry about a little mass hysteria.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, talk about poor timing


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## way up (Jan 16, 2020)

What's probably going to happen is every club and then parents will get lectured as not a one of them assaulted, threatened, or faked a gun. Everybody else has to modify their sidelines and demeanor at soccer games, because one kid and adult from the same team exhibited horrible, violent behavior.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 16, 2020)

I am sure you have, but please tell me you have spoken directly with the detective handling the case. 



Lmsa said:


> So here is the point that everyone is missing. The guy who never pulled out the gun after the melay was left to walk back to the parking lot alone with his back pack returned 15 minutes later. He looked very much at ease talking and allowing his back pack to be searched. It was a smart move on his part because by then roads were closed helicopter flying he would have been searched and car searched aswell this is my opinion. This isn't what I heard it's what I saw I was feet away from it all. There was a boy 16 years old who strongly admitted he saw the gun yet did not want to get involved and talk to the police. Another kid I talked to said he saw the butt of the gun in his hand from within the camouflaged bag. How can people say with certainty it was just a verbal threat. As witness to it all I'm more convinced he had a gun then no gun. I doubt the police went to his car to search it or even the path by the bushes he walked by while walking away. He walked away with the camouflaged bag people only to return 15 minutes later you think he went to get a hot dog or use the restroom I'm smarter then that.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jan 16, 2020)

Bottom line. Stupid parents that get too heated up with youth sports.   These are the same stupid parents that get mad with refs for making a bad call.    Life is not just youth soccer people. Get a life and enjoy watching your kids play regardless of the score or fouls in the game.


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## Distraction (Jan 16, 2020)

For four days we have been talking in circles about what happened, who is to blame, and what could be done. But the questions I have still aren't answered. Will gun guy be in San Bernardino on Saturday at State Cup games because the team is on the schedule? and Do I have to be prepared with my player and to run from the fields because a game gets heated and someone claims they have a gun?  So far it seems like the answers are maybe and yes. It would be nice if Cal South would at least make a statement acknowledging the events. At practices this week I have talked to parents and know there are teams that are not sure they will have enough players to play this weekend because either they play at Galway Downs and kids are scared to go back there a week later, or they play at San Bernardino and parents are scared gun guy will be there and have another lapse of reason.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 16, 2020)

I have the same questions and concerns.  Cal South is really showing true colors - they have enough time to post on social media about getting excited about State Cup, but they have yet to say ANYTHING publicly about the incident, not even to acknowledge it.  

I can tell you, as someone that was at Galway this past weekend, if we had games at Galway or where either of these teams were playing, we would not be attending.



Distraction said:


> For four days we have been talking in circles about what happened, who is to blame, and what could be done. But the questions I have still aren't answered. Will gun guy be in San Bernardino on Saturday at State Cup games because the team is on the schedule? and Do I have to be prepared with my player and to run from the fields because a game gets heated and someone claims they have a gun?  So far it seems like the answers are maybe and yes. It would be nice if Cal South would at least make a statement acknowledging the events. At practices this week I have talked to parents and know there are teams that are not sure they will have enough players to play this weekend because either they play at Galway Downs and kids are scared to go back there a week later, or they play at San Bernardino and parents are scared gun guy will be there and have another lapse of reason.





Distraction said:


> For four days we have been talking in circles about what happened, who is to blame, and what could be done. But the questions I have still aren't answered. Will gun guy be in San Bernardino on Saturday at State Cup games because the team is on the schedule? and Do I have to be prepared with my player and to run from the fields because a game gets heated and someone claims they have a gun?  So far it seems like the answers are maybe and yes. It would be nice if Cal South would at least make a statement acknowledging the events. At practices this week I have talked to parents and know there are teams that are not sure they will have enough players to play this weekend because either they play at Galway Downs and kids are scared to go back there a week later, or they play at San Bernardino and parents are scared gun guy will be there and have another lapse of reason.


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## justneededaname (Jan 16, 2020)

Is there a field map available for the San Bernardino complex? My dd plays on Saturday at the same times as Gun Guy's team (B2009 Inter-America Azteca) and I would like to know how close we will be to them.


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## Lambchop (Jan 16, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> Must be easy to be a keyboard quarterback when it is not your loved ones under potential threat.
> 
> Outside of pulling a gun out, he was doing everything in his power to pretend he had a gun. Why is that so hard to understand?
> 
> ...


Also, who in their right mind in this day and age pretends to have a gun?  He had no idea who else might have a gun, hmmm, why would you act like that if you didn't have a gun?  His defense, he was attacked??? He certainly looked put together, calmly walking around, hat in place. A lot of questions that still need to be answered.  Who was he with?  Who did he talk to on the way to the parking lot.  Any video or still pictures need to be turned into law enforcement.  Parents from those two teams do not have a good reputation, that being said, this falls on the behavior of the moron who went out on the field and assaulted the player and the man demonstrating a threatening stance as if he had a gun (?). Local law enforcement needs to get their sh-- together and not just brush this aside. A full and thorough investigation needs to be conducted before something really terrible happens.  There are now plenty of traumatized children and parents who were there.  Thank goodness no child was hit by a car as they were running through the parking lot.


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## board of education (Jan 16, 2020)

Lambchop said:


> Also, who in their right mind in this day and age pretends to have a gun?  He had no idea who else might have a gun, hmmm, why would you act like that if you didn't have a gun?  His defense, he was attacked??? He certainly looked put together, calmly walking around, hat in place. A lot of questions that still need to be answered.  Who was he with?  Who did he talk to on the way to the parking lot.  Any video or still pictures need to be turned into law enforcement.  Parents from those two teams do not have a good reputation, that being said, this falls on the behavior of the moron who went out on the field and assaulted the player and the man demonstrating a threatening stance as if he had a gun (?). Local law enforcement needs to get their sh-- together and not just brush this aside. A full and thorough investigation needs to be conducted before something really terrible happens.  There are now plenty of traumatized children and parents who were there.  Thank goodness no child was hit by a car as they were running through the parking lot.


Concerned citizens should commence putting pressure on the duly elected Riverside Sheriff to provide answers. We shouldn’t except them sweeping it under the rug either.


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## justneededaname (Jan 16, 2020)

m0relife said:


> Inter America Azteca B09 plays on Feb 8th


Sigh of relief


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## Grace T. (Jan 16, 2020)

way up said:


> My club demands good sideline etiquette and just about every team we have come across has been pleasant for the most part. Emotions run high and people get loud, but most people remain civil. I'll admit I have not seen this type of violence and aggression at a game, ever. Yellow cards and even red cards will come out. It's why refs. have them. Coaches will dispute calls. Boys will get physical and stand their ground. I like to stick with reality. If the sideline behavior was to the point of insults/threats/etc. , action/discussions etc. should take place. If kids played dirty, the same. I just don't blame passion and support for assault.
> 
> What's next? No cheering when your team scores, because the other team's fans gets angry and may assault your kids on the field? No using your body, because a kid may fall and older siblings may run on the field and assault your kid?


I've worn four hats in soccer.  As a baby ref on the side lines, I've had insults hurled at me from coaches, parents and players (including from a coach in a League Cup came where I was just present and helping out because one of the refs didn't show up and for which I didn't get paid).  As a parent, I've seen my goalkeeper kid lying on the floor after a save and get kicked repeatedly and the A-hole ref did nothing to protect him or to manage a game where there were several obvious pushing fouls (not just strong shoulder-to-shoulder contact).  As a coach, I've seen the crazy win-obsessed parents, the idiotic calls, and the difficulty of the politics in managing those parents.  As a writer, I've gotten to objectively to see what's going on with America's sidelines.  Yes, I think the majority of referees, parents and coaches do a good job, but the sidelines are out of control and I don't really think that's in doubt considering what I've seen with my own eyes.

There is a smaller problem and the bigger problem.  The smaller problem is obvious which is don't bring weapons to soccer and don't run out onto the field and assault a kid.  But even for the smaller problem CalSouth seems reluctant to say anything or issue punishment, considering this is the easier of the two situations.

The bigger problem is that the heated sidelines need to be controlled and that requires comprehensive reform.  While not the immediate cause of this incident, it directly contributed to it, and incidents like these will continue to occur unless the sidelines are brought more under control.  I've written to CalSouth expressing my profound disappointment at their failure to make a statement, along with my suggestions.


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## Grace T. (Jan 16, 2020)

board of education said:


> Concerned citizens should commence putting pressure on the duly elected Riverside Sheriff to provide answers. We shouldn’t except them sweeping it under the rug either.


The case may be in the hands of the applicable District Attorney, who decides to charge or not charge.  To the extend folks put pressure on the Sheriff, that's also a pressure point.


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## watfly (Jan 16, 2020)

That rug is sure getting lumpy. I guess you have to have your priorities.


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## focomoso (Jan 16, 2020)

way up said:


> This is scary. CCW, off duty police, whatever. Don't bring weapons people!!! Emotions run high at these things and people overreact. Not to mention, mass shootings and such.


My son used to regularly play against a team whose coach was a cop and always had his gun on his hip during games. This used to make me very uncomfortable, especially after I met him and discovered he wasn't the most... rational guy. Thankfully, we're not in that league anymore, but if we were, I'd probably lodge an official complaint.


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## Veritas (Jan 16, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Too busy "affiliating" to worry about a little mass hysteria.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wow so the 2 clubs that fought are merging. Am I reading this right? Rubbing my eyes


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## Veritas (Jan 16, 2020)

In fact is this how they call “Truce”, is this how they slip one under the rug in front of all of us?


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## way up (Jan 16, 2020)

Someone earlier mentioned that Aztecs are different from Azteca, so I don't think it's the same club.


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## timbuck (Jan 16, 2020)

Veritas said:


> wow so the 2 clubs that fought are merging. Am I reading this right? Rubbing my eyes


I dont think the Azteca and Aztec clubs are the same.
But how amazing/disgusting/not really that surprising would it be?


----------



## way up (Jan 17, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I dont think the Azteca and Aztec clubs are the same.
> But how amazing/disgusting/not really that surprising would it be?


Depending on how this is handled, the kid with older brother that assaults younger kids playing soccer finals could always find another club and the assaulting brother will follow at their games. The fan with the fake or real gun can also move to another club if his kid is on Azteca. To be perfectly honest, I've got no issue with sideline behavior of yet in club soccer. Maybe boy's games are more aggressive?? I don't know. I have an issue with threats and violence though especially on younger, smaller athletes PLAYING IN A DAMN FINAL! What flight were these boys?


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## Stryprod (Jan 17, 2020)

way up said:


> Depending on how this is handled, the kid with older brother that assaults younger kids playing soccer finals could always find another club and the assaulting brother will follow at their games. The fan with the fake or real gun can also move to another club if his kid is on Azteca. To be perfectly honest, I've got no issue with sideline behavior of yet in club soccer. Maybe boy's games are more aggressive?? I don't know. I have an issue with threats and violence though especially on younger, smaller athletes PLAYING IN A DAMN FINAL! What flight were these boys?


Both flight 1 teams in the top 5 of socal. Not the type of players that can just slip away into the darkness of flight 2-3 club soccer.


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## BananaKick (Jan 17, 2020)

focomoso said:


> My son used to regularly play against a team whose coach was a cop and always had his gun on his hip during games. This used to make me very uncomfortable, especially after I met him and discovered he wasn't the most... rational guy. Thankfully, we're not in that league anymore, but if we were, I'd probably lodge an official complaint.


What does CCW mean?....thx


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## StrikerOC (Jan 17, 2020)

Stryprod said:


> Both flight 1 teams in the top 5 of socal. Not the type of players that can just slip away into the darkness of flight 2-3 club soccer.


Not that rankings matter but I don't believe either club is in top 5 if we are talking about 2008. Regardless there are plenty of clubs for these kids to join


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## angelmmdc (Jan 17, 2020)

2009


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## way up (Jan 17, 2020)

BananaKick said:


> What does CCW mean?....thx


concealed carry weapon license to carry gun on person in public.


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## Ivanka17 (Jan 17, 2020)

Azteca is out of Walnut Ca

Aztec is out Central California..


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## El Soccer Loco (Jan 18, 2020)

Currently posted to Calsouth homepage ( below)

As someone who experienced this chaotic incident ( words will never fully describe the fear, uncertainty and horror hundreds of us went through)  I’m pleased to see a response and Calsouth address this head on.

*Cal South Statement Regarding Albion Tournament in Temecula, Calif.*
Cal South is dedicated to providing a safe and enjoyable athletic experience. Adherence to Cal South’s standards for appropriate conduct, respect, and safety are mandatory. This applies to players, coaches, administrators, referees and spectators.  Violations will not be tolerated and will be adjudicated to the fullest extent.
On January 12, 2020, an incident occurred at the Albion Soccer Club Development Showcase.  An already heated soccer match was disrupted when an older sibling of one of the players came onto the pitch and assaulted an opposing player.  Before the referees could address the situation and restore order, other spectators came onto the pitch.  The resulting melee was intensified by unsubstantiated claims that a spectator possessed and was brandishing a “weapon,” which caused concern and panic throughout the venue.  The authorities quickly responded to the complaint, conducted an initial investigation and confirmed the safety of the participants and supporters.  Cal South treats this incident with the utmost seriousness.  The behavior demonstrated by the persons involved will not be tolerated.
Cal South is investigating the situation with its affiliate member and the authorities, and while we review the incident, we are taking the following interim measures:

Due to the seriousness of the situation, both participating teams, their coaches, players, administrators and the spectators involved in this incident are suspended and ineligible to participate in any Cal South sanctioned tournaments until Cal South completes its investigation and holds hearings.
Failure of any team or its staff to participate in Cal South’s investigation will result in further disciplinary action up to and including de-registration from all Cal South sanctioned leagues.
Further, effective immediately, Cal South is implementing the following interim safety measures for the upcoming State and National Cup competitions:

On-site security personnel and/or law enforcement will be present at all the State and National Cup events throughout the State and National Cup Season. During the opening weekend of State Cup scheduled for January 18 and 19, the affected venues are Ryan Park in Escondido; Galway Downs in Temecula; Silverlakes Sports Complex in Norco; and the San Bernardino Soccer Complex.
The number of on-site Cal South personnel will be increased and spot auditing will be performed to assess and ensure compliance with Cal South safety and sportsmanship policies.
The number of on-site Referee Coordinators will be increased.
A “Home and Away” side initiative will be implemented and enforced to separate teams and supporters.
Coaches of participating teams and referee officials will be required to conduct a meet, greet and introduction session at the center circle prior to the start of each match.
Cal South’s Code of Conduct Policies will be recommunicated and reaffirmed to all coaches, administrators, and players participating in the competitions.
In addition, over the upcoming days, weeks, and months Cal South will be reviewing additional security and other measures, including, but not limited to, emergency evacuation plans, procedures, and training at facilities, working with referees to create a safer playing environment and holding coaches and clubs more accountable for the behavior of participants and spectators.
We understand that this incident has had an effect on many spectators and witnesses.  To assist those persons, we are providing telephonic access to emotional support for anyone in the Cal South community.  The service is provided by trained behavioral health counselors, is completely confidential, and offered at no cost for the next 30 days.  The number to call is (866) 315-7370.
We wish to express our gratitude for the multiple inquires and recommendations received in the aftermath of this incident and we will respond to those inquiries.  We look forward to working with the entire soccer community to ensure the safety, well-being and enjoyment of all participants.  We will keep our members informed of the next steps to be taken.


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## watfly (Jan 18, 2020)

El Soccer Loco said:


> Currently posted to Calsouth homepage ( below)
> 
> As someone who experienced this chaotic incident ( words will never fully describe the fear, uncertainty and horror hundreds of us went through)  I’m pleased to see a response and Calsouth address this head on.
> 
> ...


Major kudos to Calsouth.  Well written and excellent response.  I was skeptical and I take back anything I said about Calsouth not caring about safety.  I'm sure the public outcry had a lot to do with their response.  Kudos to those who contacted Calsouth.


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## espola (Jan 18, 2020)

El Soccer Loco said:


> Currently posted to Calsouth homepage ( below)
> 
> As someone who experienced this chaotic incident ( words will never fully describe the fear, uncertainty and horror hundreds of us went through)  I’m pleased to see a response and Calsouth address this head on.
> 
> ...


Over-reaction.


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## Dominic (Jan 18, 2020)

*A “Home and Away” side initiative will be implemented and enforced to separate teams and supporters. *

This is how it was when my kids played from 2003 to 2014. The only time I seen problems was when parents were sitting on the same sidelines, and divided at the half towards the later part of their club years.

Thank You Cal South!!!


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## ajaxahi (Jan 18, 2020)

espola said:


> Over-reaction.


I’m curious E, which measures specifically do you consider an overreaction?  To me this seems to be a well thought out, thorough but very reasonable response. And I was there.  Were you?


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## LASTMAN14 (Jan 18, 2020)

ajaxahi said:


> I’m curious E, which measures specifically do you consider an overreaction?  To me this seems to be a well thought out, thorough but very reasonable response. And I was there.  Were you?


Wait for the deflection and a question as a response.


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## Grace T. (Jan 18, 2020)

Nice to see they read my letter


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## espola (Jan 18, 2020)

ajaxahi said:


> I’m curious E, which measures specifically do you consider an overreaction?  To me this seems to be a well thought out, thorough but very reasonable response. And I was there.  Were you?


I can see that they already have rosters of the teams and coaches (any guests?) and can identify the two worst actors with a little effort - but spectators?


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## Fact (Jan 18, 2020)

espola said:


> I can see that they already have rosters of the teams and coaches (any guests?) and can identify the two worst actors with a little effort - but spectators?


I hope they conduct their investigation asap so anyone that is innocent does not get penalized.

Also, I would like to know how Calsouth is going to define where parents sit. I unfortunately see many loopholes with this, for example sitting/standing at the corner flag,,,seen this numerous times.


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## bossman (Jan 18, 2020)

Yep, was at Galway Downs today for state cup and it was implemented for our second game...a bit of confusion at first.  To be honest I didn't like it as much.  The parents cheering/clapping gets in the way of the coach's coaching.  Also, when you are forced to sit next to the other team you tend to tone it down a notch out of respect/fear.


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## timbuck (Jan 18, 2020)

Put all games in high school stadiums with home and visitor bleachers.  
Definitely not possible due to field space. But it sure solves a lot of issues.


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## watfly (Jan 18, 2020)

bossman said:


> The parents cheering/clapping gets in the way of the coach's coaching.


Should only be an issue for joystick coaches.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Jan 18, 2020)

Thank you Cal South for listening and taking a stand 



El Soccer Loco said:


> Currently posted to Calsouth homepage ( below)
> 
> As someone who experienced this chaotic incident ( words will never fully describe the fear, uncertainty and horror hundreds of us went through)  I’m pleased to see a response and Calsouth address this head on.
> 
> ...


----------



## oh canada (Jan 18, 2020)

Agreed.  Good first step.  Now get your investigation complete and final sanctions issued prior to the February weekend when these two teams are scheduled to play.  3 weeks is plenty of time for that.


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## timbuck (Jan 18, 2020)

oh canada said:


> Agreed.  Good first step.  Now get your investigation complete and final sanctions issued prior to the February weekend when these two teams are scheduled to play.  3 weeks is plenty of time for that.


Does it really take cal-south to figure this out?
How about the 2 clubs involved make an initial move and then let cal-south determine if more is needed.


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## Stryprod (Jan 18, 2020)

StrikerOC said:


> Not that rankings matter but I don't believe either club is in top 5 if we are talking about 2008. Regardless there are plenty of clubs for these kids to join


We're not talking 2008, we're talking 2009, and both clubs are top 5 per YSR. Yes, not the end all be all, but a good metric.


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## watfly (Jan 19, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Does it really take cal-south to figure this out?
> How about the 2 clubs involved make an initial move and then let cal-south determine if more is needed.


100%.  If you don't take care of your own business someone else will take care of it for you.  Albions dismissive public responses have certainly not helped their cause.

I bet if they haven't already done so, Albion's attorneys are drafting a response to Calsouth denying any responsibility and possibly threatening legal action for any punishment.  Albion has to protect its brand.


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## Surfref (Jan 19, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Put the parents on the same side as the team/coaches.  Impossible to control your parents from 80 yards away.


Absolutely.  I started to see more parent problems when SCDSL and ECNL was formed and had parents on the opposite side of the field from the teams.  This ended up carrying over into other leagues and tournaments.  I see parent problems at all ages and can usually, but not always, associate the bad parent behavior with the bad behavior of coaches.  I have addressed parent problems during games with coaches and have been told numerous times, “why should I be responsible for controlling adults.”  Spectators should be on the same sideline as the coach and players and in the half away from the assistant referee.  Presidio used these rules this fall and I saw a drastic decrease in parent problems.


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## Surfref (Jan 19, 2020)

Bri’s-DAD said:


> Both teams should be removed from competition because both sidelines participated in the melee but that should only be the beginning of their punishment...  Make them the example and set the standard for any future incidents.


Ban all spectators for both those teams for a year.  That should send a message.  The opposing teams will see the Albion South or Azteca teams show up for games with just the coach, manager and players.  

IMHO, sanctions/penalties against poorly behaving parents is too weak.  They should be suspended for months and not just a game.  Coaches ejected should be suspended for 3 games minimum the first time, 6 games and a fine for the second ejection, 3 months and a fine for third ejection, and a a one year ban, fine, anger management class, referee grade 8 course and coaching course completed before they can reapply for their coaches license.  Cal South would need to track these ejection.  I am not sure that Cal South has the courage to implement any significant coach or parent penalties for bad behavior.


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## espola (Jan 19, 2020)

Surfref said:


> Ban all spectators for both those teams for a year.  That should send a message.  The opposing teams will see the Albion South or Azteca teams show up for games with just the coach, manager and players.
> 
> IMHO, sanctions/penalties against poorly behaving parents is too weak.  They should be suspended for months and not just a game.  Coaches ejected should be suspended for 3 games minimum the first time, 6 games and a fine for the second ejection, 3 months and a fine for third ejection, and a a one year ban, fine, anger management class, referee grade 8 course and coaching course completed before they can reapply for their coaches license.  Cal South would need to track these ejection.  I am not sure that Cal South has the courage to implement any significant coach or parent penalties for bad behavior.


You may have to wait until they are old enough to drive themselves to the game.


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## Surfref (Jan 19, 2020)

way up said:


> What's probably going to happen is every club and then parents will get lectured as not a one of them assaulted, threatened, or faked a gun. Everybody else has to modify their sidelines and demeanor at soccer games, because one kid and adult from the same team exhibited horrible, violent behavior.


BS, this type of spectators bad behavior, minus the gun, has been escalating steadily over the past 15 years.  There have been numerous assaults (physical and verbal) against referees by players, coaches and parents, between coaches, parents vs parents, parents vs players, parents vs coaches...... The punishments against the perpetrators is far too lenient.  Presidio increased their punishments against teams when spectators were removed and it was successful, but they need to increase suspensions and include monetary fines against coaches ejected .  Maybe Cal South needs to set some strong standards.


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## Surfref (Jan 19, 2020)

espola said:


> You may have to wait until they are old enough to drive themselves to the game.


Thank you for that stupid comment.  Presidio did it this fall and it worked well.  Parents drove their kids to the venue, walked them to the coach or manager, then returned to their car and either sat in their car or went for coffee, lunch, etc. while the game was played.


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## espola (Jan 19, 2020)

Surfref said:


> Thank you for that stupid comment.  Presidio did it this fall and it worked well.  Parents drove their kids to the venue, walked them to the coach or manager, then returned to their car and either sat in their car or went for coffee, lunch, etc. while the game was played.


Presidio did what?


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## Surfref (Jan 19, 2020)

espola said:


> Presidio did what?


If a parent was removed from a game, that parent was not allowed at the next two games and all of that teams spectators were not allowed at the next game.  This required the suspended parents to drop of their players then leave the fields. But, I am sure you knew that.


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## espola (Jan 19, 2020)

Surfref said:


> If a parent was removed from a game, that parent was not allowed at the next two games and all of that teams spectators were not allowed at the next game.  This required the suspended parents to drop of their players then leave the fields. But, I am sure you knew that.


I didn't know that.  I had heard that Presidio had toughened up the sideline behavior rules, but I didn't know that it had gotten to the point of punishing the innocent.  I didn't attend any Presidio games this year, but I had heard indirectly that the sidelines were calmer because of self-policing.  Is that not true?

For me personally, if I were banned from attending a game after having done nothing wrong, we would be looking for a different sport.


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## Surfref (Jan 19, 2020)

I have been out of the country for the last two weeks and just heard about the Albion Showcase incident today when one of my referee associations sent out the Cal South statement.  I have known Ziggy, Albion South Coach, for years years and have NEVER had a problem with him yelling at my referee crews.  I have had his spectators yell at me and Ziggy has always addressed the spectator quickly before I had to get involved.  I refereed his teams, including the team involved in the incident, this past year and had no sideline or player problems.  I worked a lot of Albion games this Fall season and had no coach or sideline problems.


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## Nefutous (Jan 19, 2020)

Surfref said:


> Ban all spectators for both those teams for a year.  That should send a message.  The opposing teams will see the Albion South or Azteca teams show up for games with just the coach, manager and players.
> 
> IMHO, sanctions/penalties against poorly behaving parents is too weak.  They should be suspended for months and not just a game.  Coaches ejected should be suspended for 3 games minimum the first time, 6 games and a fine for the second ejection, 3 months and a fine for third ejection, and a a one year ban, fine, anger management class, referee grade 8 course and coaching course completed before they can reapply for their coaches license.  Cal South would need to track these ejection.  I am not sure that Cal South has the courage to implement any significant coach or parent penalties for bad behavior.


I agree that punishment needs to be swifter and harsher, but don’t agree that this case should be made an example of.  Just dell out the punishment they would normally give and then put everyone in Calsouth know the new rules going forward.  I also don’t agree with the punishment of the whole team.  There are actually parents that do try to stop bad behavior but don’t have the support of the coach or other parents.  My family left a team because of bad parent behavior toward the ref and players on our own team.

No one should say anything negative to a ref.  And if the ref gives a warning they need to just shut up and don’t argue that they did not say anything. When someone gets kicked out of a game, they should leave immediately.  I don’t understand what people think they are going to accomplish by staying there when the game is stopped.  And I don’t understand why the manager or coach would not tell a parent to leave. Also, why do they always think that by going down by the corner flag, they become invisible? When the ball goes down there, the ref will see them and stop the game again.  

When a parent tells another parent to be quiet and sit down, they should not turn on them.  And parents should not be criticizing any kids, especially from their own team. Yes, parents and players have ears and video also captures it very well.

Most disgusting to me is when a parent cheers that her kid took out a player and that player is still on the ground hurt.  

In these cases punish the parent and the do nothing coach and manager, not the innocent parents that keep their mouth shut.


----------



## espola (Jan 19, 2020)

Nefutous said:


> I agree that punishment needs to be swifter and harsher, but don’t agree that this case should be made an example of.  Just dell out the punishment they would normally give and then put everyone in Calsouth know the new rules going forward.  I also don’t agree with the punishment of the whole team.  There are actually parents that do try to stop bad behavior but don’t have the support of the coach or other parents.  My family left a team because of bad parent behavior toward the ref and players on our own team.
> 
> No one should say anything negative to a ref.  And if the ref gives a warning they need to just shut up and don’t argue that they did not say anything. When someone gets kicked out of a game, they should leave immediately.  I don’t understand what people think they are going to accomplish by staying there when the game is stopped.  And I don’t understand why the manager or coach would not tell a parent to leave. Also, why do they always think that by going down by the corner flag, they become invisible? When the ball goes down there, the ref will see them and stop the game again.
> 
> ...


Several of our teams used the lollipop method - if a parent seemed to be getting loud or offensive, the team manager would hand him a lollipop.


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## espola (Jan 19, 2020)

Surfref said:


> I have been out of the country for the last two weeks and just heard about the Albion Showcase incident today when one of my referee associations sent out the Cal South statement.  I have known Ziggy, Albion South Coach, for years years and have NEVER had a problem with him yelling at my referee crews.  I have had his spectators yell at me and Ziggy has always addressed the spectator quickly before I had to get involved.  I refereed his teams, including the team involved in the incident, this past year and had no sideline or player problems.  I worked a lot of Albion games this Fall season and had no coach or sideline problems.


Some people are proposing that he, his team, his club, and uninvolved spectators be punished.  Do you agree with that?


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## Surfref (Jan 19, 2020)

espola said:


> Some people are proposing that he, his team, his club, and uninvolved spectators be punished.  Do you agree with that?


Initially I would have agreed, but since watching the You Tube videos, TV news reports and information read on this forum, I do think that any spectators that came on the field should face a long suspension from attending any Cal South sanctioned games.  If either club does not fully cooperate in the investigation, then harsh punishments should be handed out. Had the adult spectators not come on the field, the incident probably would not have escalated to the point that sent hundreds of people running for cover.  Spectators should NEVER enter the field of play without the referees permission.  Let Cal South investigate.  We can all hope that Cal South will conduct a very thorough investigation and hand out harsh punishments and make policy changes that help stop the spectator bad behavior.  Since we are in “lawsuit crazy” California, I would bet someone is going to file a lawsuit for emotional problems caused to them or their children.


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## SDMama (Jan 19, 2020)

Surfref said:


> Spectators should be on the same sideline as the coach and players and in the half away from the assistant referee.  Presidio used these rules this fall and I saw a drastic decrease in parent problems.


We played a tournament out of state last summer, and they had teams on opposite sides of the field. When we, spectators, went to setup on either side of our team’s bench, the AR told those who set up to the right of the team bench to move to the opposite/left side of the team bench, away from where he would be running with a comment something like, “I thought you guys were from California. I thought you’d know better.”  Hahaha. Of course that set up makes total sense, but we just didn’t know because we don’t have the same rules here.


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## oh canada (Jan 19, 2020)

Heard from a couple friends that Galway parent/coach conduct continued to be embarrassing this weekend at State Cup--red cards for coaches, parents being ejected, sidelines yelling at kids, etc. etc.  Anyone care to attest who was there?


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## way up (Jan 19, 2020)

oh canada said:


> Heard from a couple friends that Galway parent/coach conduct continued to be embarrassing this weekend at State Cup--red cards for coaches, parents being ejected, sidelines yelling at kids, etc. etc.  Anyone care to attest who was there?


I was at San Bernadino Soccer Complex and everyone was pretty well behaved.  Separating the home and away team with sides of the field worked very well too imo. There was one really loud, non-stop joysticking coach in our bracket, but with separate sidelines, it wasn't a big deal. Saw some great soccer and it was very civil. SCDSL has pretty strict rules for bad sideline behavior, so I have not seen anything like you're describing above.


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## Nefutous (Jan 19, 2020)

Calsouth’s press release say that they will require cooperation in the investigation by the clubs.  +5 years ago, clubs were not required to cooperate and Calsouth could not hold them accountable, which I always thought was weird.  Were the rules changed previously or did they just change them for this issue?

Also the PAD use to be made up of volunteers that met on Sundays. Is that still the case? If so, I highly doubt that they will be able to resolve this issue before the clubs in question are scheduled to play in State Cup.  PAD becomes really busy during this time of year.  Too bad innocent families are caught up in this mess.


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## socalkdg (Jan 20, 2020)

Cal South Statement Regarding Albion Tournament in Temecula, Calif. - Cal South
					

Cal South is dedicated to providing a safe and enjoyable athletic experience. Adherence to Cal South’s standards for appropriate conduct, respect, and safety are mandatory. This applies to players, coaches, administrators, referees and spectators.  Violations …




					calsouth.com


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## MWN (Jan 20, 2020)

Two points:

Point 1: To blame Cal South is stupid. I don't know if its been said before, but this was simply a Cal South "Sanctioned" Tournament that was played at a 3rd party Venue (Galway Downs) and hosted and promoted by a 3rd party club (Albion). Its a little unfair to blame Cal South for any of what happened at Albion/Galway because it was not sponsored or conducted by Cal South. The referee crew had everything under control until the 3rd party juvenile delinquent entered the field and then the Albion and Azteca parents.

Point 2: There are 3 primary groups to blame:

1) The parents of the dumbass kids that ran onto the field for being so inept at parenting that this kid thought running onto the field was an appropriate response.  These parents and their kid should be banned for life, they don't belong in soccer.

2) All the parents that ran onto the field, a fight between two kids is the sole responsibility of the coaches, the players and the referee crew to manage.  There is never a justified excuse for a parent to be on the field unless they have some sort of medical training AND were invited.  Every parent that was on the field should be suspended for 1 season.  Their kids can play, but those parents need to be punished.

3) The Azteca coach for allowing a culture to exist on his team where parents of dumbass kids could find a home.

Neither the venue, the tournament, nor Cal South have any responsibility for the actions of grown ass adults and their dumbass children.  Zero.  A code of conduct exists.


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## jpeter (Jan 20, 2020)

Surfref said:


> I have been out of the country for the last two weeks and just heard about the Albion Showcase incident today when one of my referee associations sent out the Cal South statement.  I have known Ziggy, Albion South Coach, for years years and have NEVER had a problem with him yelling at my referee crews.  I have had his spectators yell at me and Ziggy has always addressed the spectator quickly before I had to get involved.  I refereed his teams, including the team involved in the incident, this past year and had no sideline or player problems.  I worked a lot of Albion games this Fall season and had no coach or sideline problems.


Well mixed experiences when he's been coaching in the da in the past, he had some issues and don't think he's doing DA any longer.


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## espola (Jan 20, 2020)

MWN said:


> Two points:
> 
> Point 1: To blame Cal South is stupid. I don't know if its been said before, but this was simply a Cal South "Sanctioned" Tournament that was played at a 3rd party Venue (Galway Downs) and hosted and promoted by a 3rd party club (Albion). Its a little unfair to blame Cal South for any of what happened at Albion/Galway because it was not sponsored or conducted by Cal South. The referee crew had everything under control until the 3rd party juvenile delinquent entered the field and then the Albion and Azteca parents.
> 
> ...


I disagree with #2 to some extent.  If I saw an intruder sucker-punching my kid in the head, I wouldn't be able to hold myself back.  Period.

I have responded to the "unless they have some sort of medical training AND were invited" passage in the past (long lost in the fog of Forum crashes).  In addition to the parental instincts above, I would enter a field during a game to treat or protect a player suffering from severe bleeding, a convulsive seizure, or an obvious broken limb.  The referee can throw me out without complaint on my part ass long as he notes the situation completely in his game report.


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## jpeter (Jan 20, 2020)

MWN said:


> Two points:
> 
> Point 1: To blame Cal South is stupid. I don't know if its been said before, but this was simply a Cal South "Sanctioned" Tournament that was played at a 3rd party Venue (Galway Downs) and hosted and promoted by a 3rd party club (Albion). Its a little unfair to blame Cal South for any of what happened at Albion/Galway because it was not sponsored or conducted by Cal South. The referee crew had everything under control until the 3rd party juvenile delinquent entered the field and then the Albion and Azteca parents.
> 
> ...


CAL south is part of the problem, a big part you can't just say they only scantioned the event and don't have any responsibility.


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## watfly (Jan 20, 2020)

jpeter said:


> CAL south is part of the problem, a big part you can't just say they only scantioned the event and don't have any responsibility.


Yep, as I mentioned before some of the posters are confusing blame with responsibilities.  Calsouth is not to blame for this specific incident; however, as the sanctioning entity it has a huge responsibility to respond to the situation (including appropriate punishment) and do its best to implement measures that might prevent this from happening in the future.  Albion as the tournament host has a similar responsibility to do so and even greater responsibility since members of their club apparently acted irresponsibly and may (or may not have) provoked the incident.  Instead they've chosen to point fingers at a young teen and claim the incident was harmless despite hundreds of children and parents running for their lives with some crying and screaming.   Do you really trust a youth organization that calls this incident harmless?  Of course none of this excuses the behavior of the Azteca individuals, or the Azteca club to respond as well.  Those of you that are in the weeds of legalities or specific individual innocence or guilt are missing the point entirely.

I serve on the board of a not-for-profit youth services organization.  If our CEO responded with the same callous and dismissive responses as NG and ZK to an incident where kids feared for their lives (whether it was our fault or not), that CEO would be looking for a new job.


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## MWN (Jan 20, 2020)

jpeter said:


> CAL south is part of the problem, a big part you can't just say they only sanctioned the event and don't have any responsibility.


At @espola, stay the "f*$%" off the field.  Let the coaches and refs handle it.  Once you set foot then another parent will and the ref's lose their ability to control anything.  By the time some kid cold-cocks yours, there is nothing you can do.  Stay off.  PERIOD!!!!

@jpeter, Disagree.  Sanctioning an event means that the promoters of the event have assured Cal South that they are (1) members (and in good standing); (2) have adopted and will enforce the US Youth Soccer/Cal South code of conduct and other US Youth Soccer/Cal South rules and regulations; and (3) will employ a referee association approved by Cal South.  The tournament pays a whopping $100 (one hundred dollars) and delivers:

Cal South Application for Tournament Sanctioning
Receipt & Affidavit of Compliance
US Youth Soccer Application to Host a Tournament or Games
US Youth Soccer Tournament Hosting Agreement
Sanctioned Tournament Referee Association Certification
$100 Application Fee (club check payable to Cal South or credit card authorization form)
Sanctioning is simply a formality whereby tournaments agree to abide by the rules of US Youth Soccer and its State Association ... Cal South.

There is no review beyond are they in good standing and has the tournament promised to abide by our rules?  The $100 is a fair document review fee for the cost of the employee that will take a few hours to review and put the tournament on the website.

The argument that Cal South has any culpability or in your words "...is a big part of the problem" is akin to saying the State of California, DMV, should be held liable for the acts of drivers that break the law.  Bullshit.  Adults are 100% responsible for their behavior ... 100%.

@watfly, Agree, but that is not what 90% of the posters here believe.  They believe that Cal South is some omnipotent entity that can stop this kind of crap from happening with a magical hand of God.  What happens next and how Cal South will engage in the review and punishment process under its PAD process is on Cal South's shoulders and so far, it seems that the preliminary suspensions are valid and the process is moving forward under the rules of Cal South and US Youth Soccer.


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## espola (Jan 20, 2020)

MWN said:


> At @espola, stay the "f*$%" off the field.  Let the coaches and refs handle it.  Once you set foot then another parent will and the ref's lose their ability to control anything.  By the time some kid cold-cocks yours, there is nothing you can do.  Stay off.  PERIOD!!!!


I reject that nonsense.


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## MWN (Jan 20, 2020)

espola said:


> I reject that nonsense.


As a referee (I don't think you have, but correct me if I'm wrong), our worst fear is parents and spectators entering the field during a melee or fight.  We (referees and coaches) can handle the players and the occasional juvenile delinquent.  Once adults enter the playing field its a cascade effect that creates chaos.  I reject your rejection as ill advised as its both against the rules and illogical.


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## espola (Jan 20, 2020)

MWN said:


> As a referee (I don't think you have, but correct me if I'm wrong), our worst fear is parents and spectators entering the field during a melee or fight.  We (referees and coaches) can handle the players and the occasional juvenile delinquent.  Once adults enter the playing field its a cascade effect that creates chaos.  I reject your rejection as ill advised as its both against the rules and illogical.


I told you my feelings.  Luckily, I have never had to act on them.  I wonder how many parents would sit and watch their child be beaten by a larger child.


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## watfly (Jan 20, 2020)

MWN said:


> @watfly, Agree, but that is not what 90% of the posters here believe.  They believe that Cal South is some omnipotent entity that can stop this kind of crap from happening with a magical hand of God.  What happens next and how Cal South will engage in the review and punishment process under its PAD process is on Cal South's shoulders and so far, it seems that the preliminary suspensions are valid and the process is moving forward under the rules of Cal South and US Youth Soccer.


May be they think that way but IDK.  I get the sense that many of the posters feel like Calsouth hasn't addressed serious bad behavior from clubs, coaches, parents, refs and players in the past which has created an environment where bad behavior is tolerated.  I was very skeptical how Calsouth was going to respond in this situation.  Its response was better than anything I would have expected.  Now they have to follow through.

My son has been punched in a game a couple times (1st time the ref waived it off, the 2nd time the ref gave advantage despite the fact the punch dropped my son and never came back to issue a card).  Never once have I run on the field to confront the puncher or tried to start a fight with the other parents (although I may have said something to the ref afterwards).   However, if my son was ever seriously injured in a game you can bet that I will run onto the field to tend to my kid, the ref doesn't have medical authority over my child.  Most competent refs are going to wave the parent on anyway.  Only a ref with a very misguided sense of authority would prevent a parent from coming on to the field for a seriously injured child.


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## espola (Jan 20, 2020)

watfly said:


> May be they think that way but IDK.  I get the sense that many of the posters feel like Calsouth hasn't addressed serious bad behavior from clubs, coaches, parents, refs and players in the past which has created an environment where bad behavior is tolerated.  I was very skeptical how Calsouth was going to respond in this situation.  Its response was better than anything I would have expected.  Now they have to follow through.
> 
> My son has been punched in a game a couple times (1st time the ref waived it off, the 2nd time the ref gave advantage despite the fact the punch dropped my son and never came back to issue a card).  Never once have I run on the field to confront the puncher or tried to start a fight with the other parents (although I may have said something to the ref afterwards).   However, if my son was ever seriously injured in a game you can bet that I will run onto the field to tend to my kid, the ref doesn't have medical authority over my child.  Most competent refs are going to wave the parent on anyway.  Only a ref with a very misguided sense of authority would prevent a parent from coming on to the field for a seriously injured child.


Many years ago when I was our club's representative to the Cal South annual meeting in LA, one of the items up for discussion and vote concerned re-organizing the whole PAD process.  The measure passed.  After the meeting, I spoke with the former PAD chairwoman and asked her about the background of the issue.  She said that some members of the board were upset that some powerful coaches and administrators (that's how she described them - I have no way to verify it) who were friends with the board members had been punished with suspensions and fines by the old PAD.  We didn't really have time to get into details, and I took it with a grain of salt.  However, over the years, we have seen discussed on this forum many instances where the Cal South BOD said one thing one day and then reversed itself soon after.  I don't know why that should happen.

As for the latest tournament issue - it seems to me that the two identified miscreants were associated with the Azteca team, and yet many here are posting opinions that Albion (team, coach, club, parents, etc) should be punished.  What am I missing?


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## baldref (Jan 20, 2020)

espola said:


> Many years ago when I was our club's representative to the Cal South annual meeting in LA, one of the items up for discussion and vote concerned re-organizing the whole PAD process.  The measure passed.  After the meeting, I spoke with the former PAD chairwoman and asked her about the background of the issue.  She said that some members of the board were upset that some powerful coaches and administrators (that's how she described them - I have no way to verify it) who were friends with the board members had been punished with suspensions and fines by the old PAD.  We didn't really have time to get into details, and I took it with a grain of salt.  However, over the years, we have seen discussed on this forum many instances where the Cal South BOD said one thing one day and then reversed itself soon after.  I don't know why that should happen.
> 
> As for the latest tournament issue - it seems to me that the two identified miscreants were associated with the Azteca team, and yet many here are posting opinions that Albion (team, coach, club, parents, etc) should be punished.  What am I missing?


morals. ethics. brain cells. common sense. testosterone. That's a decent start


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## espola (Jan 20, 2020)

baldref said:


> morals. ethics. brain cells. common sense. testosterone. That's a decent start


You shouldn't make it so obvious that you have nothing constructive to say.  Or was that your point?


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Jan 20, 2020)

In High School Soccer, it is an automatic red for a substitute to leave the bench after a altercation between 2 players takes place. It doesn't matter if they "were just running in to break up the fight". Automatic red.

Even granting the benefit of the doubt to the subs (that they wanted to quell the fight), I agree with the sanction because in every case, having more people run into the melee area just makes things worse. Every parent that left their chair and entered the field deserves to be punished whether or not they wanted to "help". Although the 2 initial perpetrators were from Azteca, we should still be punishing the Albion team as well. It takes two to tango. remove the Albion parents from entering the field (minus the 1 dad of punched kid) and this situation de-escalates much quicker, and every spectator that entered the field removed from the game and the game continued.


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## MWN (Jan 20, 2020)

espola said:


> Many years ago when I was our club's representative to the Cal South annual meeting in LA, one of the items up for discussion and vote concerned re-organizing the whole PAD process.  The measure passed.  After the meeting, I spoke with the former PAD chairwoman and asked her about the background of the issue.  She said that some members of the board were upset that some powerful coaches and administrators (that's how she described them - I have no way to verify it) who were friends with the board members had been punished with suspensions and fines by the old PAD.  We didn't really have time to get into details, and I took it with a grain of salt.  However, over the years, we have seen discussed on this forum many instances where the Cal South BOD said one thing one day and then reversed itself soon after.  I don't know why that should happen.
> 
> As for the latest tournament issue - it seems to me that the two identified miscreants were associated with the Azteca team, and yet many here are posting opinions that Albion (team, coach, club, parents, etc) should be punished.  What am I missing?


Any parent (Azteca and Albion) that entered the field should be punished for contributing and inciting violence and/or the threat of violence as 3rd party agents.  The Albion coach is responsible for his parents, so he should be punished.  The Azteca coach is responsible for his parents, so he should be punished.  Why?  Because the referees and coaches had the situation under control, the entrance of the Azteca juvenile delinquent to the field of play created a situation that was a brief escalation that the Azteca coach was responsible for eliminating.  Once the parents entered the field they caused the potential for additional acts of violence, therefore, all that entered should be punished.  Punishment in this case for the parents should be a sufficient suspension to cause those parents to modify their behavior in the future and keep theirs asses in their seats and let the coaches and referees quell the dispute.

The appropriate response from the Albion players is (1) don't fight; (2) don't fight; (3) don't fight; and (4) go to the sideline.  The appropriate response from the Azteca players is (1) don't fight; and (2) pile on their player's older brother and hold him down to prevent additional acts of violence.  All players that engaged in acts of violence including swings and misses should be suspended.


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## espola (Jan 20, 2020)

Definitelynotanotherref said:


> In High School Soccer, it is an automatic red for a substitute to leave the bench after a altercation between 2 players takes place. It doesn't matter if they "were just running in to break up the fight". Automatic red.
> 
> Even granting the benefit of the doubt to the subs (that they wanted to quell the fight), I agree with the sanction because in every case, having more people run into the melee area just makes things worse. Every parent that left their chair and entered the field deserves to be punished whether or not they wanted to "help". Although the 2 initial perpetrators were from Azteca, we should still be punishing the Albion team as well. It takes two to tango. remove the Albion parents from entering the field (minus the 1 dad of punched kid) and this situation de-escalates much quicker, and every spectator that entered the field removed from the game and the game continued.


I'll wait for the whole video to come out.


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## way up (Jan 20, 2020)

espola said:


> You shouldn't make it so obvious that you have nothing constructive to say.  Or was that your point?


I'm with you espola. If a kid 40% older than my own whose not even playing ran on the field and sucker punched my kid in the face, I'd have a hard time not running on the field. Our sidelines should not, but the parents should have a right to defend their kids. A good sized 14 year old kid who knows how to throw a punch can damage the hell out of a 10 year old especially when its a sucker punch and undefended. Yeah, highly doubt I sit and watch my kids get assaulted on a soccer field. I give no blame what so ever to the parents defending their kid. ALL OF THE BLAME should be on the individual who performed the assault. Other parents running on the field should not have had to run in unless they needed to protect the victims and other kids on the field, so I'll let the powers that be argue that one. Just my opinions, but I've read about kids being killed in fights where they were defending themselves let alone getting sucker punched.


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## MWN (Jan 20, 2020)

@espola and @way up 

The only justifiable time a "parent" should enter the field would be (1) there are no referees or coaches within a reasonable distance; (2) the parent's sole motivation is to remove/shield the victim from violence that the victim cannot adequately defend or runaway from.

This isn't the wild-west.

The only appropriate response for a player that is confronted with violence is to disengage and remove themselves.   Defending themselves is running to a coach or parent on the sideline.  That is it.  So in the rare situation where a player is rendered unable to move and is/will be the victim of violence that cannot be mitigated by the other players, the referees or coaches, then it could be justifiable for a parent to throw them-self between the attacker and the victim and absorb the attacker's blows by shielding the victim.  For example, a player goes to the ground and is unable to move, the attacker starts to kick the player in the head, a parent jumps in to protect the head of the victim.

In this case, the referees and other players were in the vicinity of the 3rd party agent / juvenile delinquent, thus, entering the field of play was 100% unwarranted, even if it was your kid.


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## Lambchop (Jan 20, 2020)

way up said:


> I'm with you espola. If a kid 40% older than my own whose not even playing ran on the field and sucker punched my kid in the face, I'd have a hard time not running on the field. Our sidelines should not, but the parents should have a right to defend their kids. A good sized 14 year old kid who knows how to throw a punch can damage the hell out of a 10 year old especially when its a sucker punch and undefended. Yeah, highly doubt I sit and watch my kids get assaulted on a soccer field. I give no blame what so ever to the parents defending their kid. ALL OF THE BLAME should be on the individual who performed the assault. Other parents running on the field should not have had to run in unless they needed to protect the victims and other kids on the field, so I'll let the powers that be argue that one. Just my opinions, but I've read about kids being killed in fights where they were defending themselves let alone getting sucker punched.


Let's not forget the "man-child pretending to have a gun", or did he? That is what caused the terror!  He should definitely be punished!


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## way up (Jan 20, 2020)

MWN said:


> @espola and @way up
> 
> The only justifiable time a "parent" should enter the field would be (1) there are no referees or coaches within a reasonable distance; (2) the parent's sole motivation is to remove/shield the victim from violence that the victim cannot adequately defend or runaway from.
> 
> ...


I'd have to see video. If the assaulting individual was held or pushed off and my kid was protected from the assaulter before I had time to run on the field then I see your argument.

Regarding the wild west, we have a legal right to defend our kids on the field and off. The soccer powers that be can punish us in whatever ways they want, but I personally don't blame a parent who does. I would not say 100% unwarranted as they have a right to check on the safety of their child who is 10 years old and was assaulted by a 14 year old kid. I disagree completely. Life is not black and white sometimes, but there is one thing that is black and white. All of the wheels were set in motion from the assault.

This whole violence is not the answer forgets that people defending themselves or their loved ones never asked to be attacked, but they should all have a right to defend themselves and when a threat is made and is still present, violence may be necessary to put it down. Again, the soccer gods can try the case, but we have legal rights to defend our families and selves and sometimes that means using violence to stop violence.


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## espola (Jan 20, 2020)

MWN said:


> @espola and @way up
> 
> The only justifiable time a "parent" should enter the field would be (1) there are no referees or coaches within a reasonable distance; (2) the parent's sole motivation is to remove/shield the victim from violence that the victim cannot adequately defend or runaway from.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't be going out looking to get in a fistfight.  I would be grabbing my kid and getting out off there and hoping to get in and out clean.


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## MWN (Jan 20, 2020)

@way up and @espola, but what the knucklehead on the opposing sideline sees is this spectator adult is now running towards his kid (let's say the instigator) and is now going to do the same thing and then it spirals out of control.


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## way up (Jan 20, 2020)

way up said:


> I'd have to see video. If the assaulting individual was held or pushed off and my kid was protected from the assaulter before I had time to run on the field then I see your argument.
> 
> Regarding the wild west, we have a legal right to defend our kids on the field and off. The soccer powers that be can punish us in whatever ways they want, but I personally don't blame a parent who does. I would not say 100% unwarranted as they have a right to check on the safety of their child who is 10 years old and was assaulted by a 14 year old kid. I disagree completely. Life is not black and white sometimes, but there is one thing that is black and white. All of the wheels were set in motion from the assault.
> 
> This whole violence is not the answer forgets that people defending themselves or their loved ones never asked to be attacked, but they should all have a right to defend themselves and when a threat is made and is still present, violence may be necessary to put it down. Again, the soccer gods can try the case, but we have legal rights to defend our families and selves and sometimes that means using violence to stop violence.


In this case, I don't mean for any adult to hit the 14 year old assaulter, but when another kid is throwing a bunch of punches at another kid, turning and running may not be a good option. It takes punching back sometimes to stop the attack. Point is, you have to stand your ground if you're attacked or become a victim sometimes. It's not black and white or maybe sometimes you just have to do what you have to do and let the peanut gallery decide what laws or rules they want.


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## way up (Jan 20, 2020)

MWN said:


> @way up and @espola, but what the knucklehead on the opposing sideline sees is this spectator adult is now running towards his kid (let's say the instigator) and is now going to do the same thing and then it spirals out of control.


The parent is most likely just checking on his kid and/or trying to keep the attacker away. Not saying attack the kid, but civil parents on the other side should have been trying to subdue the threat that came from their side. We have to see the video. I'm just saying it's not black and white and the kid is 40% older. My immediate concern would be my kid's safety not hurting the attacker. No matter how you slice it, this whole circumstance started and ended with Azteca's sideline. From the gun guy to the assaulting kid, that is what most I've talked to seem concerned about.


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## Grace T. (Jan 20, 2020)

espola said:


> I told you my feelings.  Luckily, I have never had to act on them.  I wonder how many parents would sit and watch their child be beaten by a larger child.


Added to this is the instruction that referees have certain limited abilities to lay hands on minors.  Some of them are stand up people and would do so anyways, but the spectators can't always be sure, which creates doubt in the parent's mind of the ability of the referee to protect the child.  Not saying it's ideal.  Just that it's the reality of what we are dealing with.  

Not saying this is what happened at Albion but to paint a scenario: Game goes on and is very physical.  Ref is one of the "let em play" refs and isn't calling fouls or handing out cards.  Eventually a shoving match develops between 2 players, and one goes on to cold cock another, proceeding to continue to advance and beat on the minor.  What are the odds the parent, who has not seen to date the referee protect the minor and has seen the referee let the situation get to that point, will trust the referee to protect their child at that moment?  Quite a dilemma.


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## way up (Jan 20, 2020)

MWN said:


> @way up and @espola, but what the knucklehead on the opposing sideline sees is this spectator adult is now running towards his kid (let's say the instigator) and is now going to do the same thing and then it spirals out of control.


Let's break this down though. The assaulter (not instigator) is ran towards, because he attacked a younger player on a soccer field where he never, ever should have been. Now those from his side running on the field are defending and assisting the assaulter. Those on the Albion side are defending the victim. Sure, it does spiral out of control, but one side started the incident, defended the assaulter, and even had an individual that may or may not have had a gun make the incident a travesty by forcing an full soccer complex stampede. The other side is guilty of defending a victim who was 40% younger than the attacker.


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## MWN (Jan 20, 2020)

way up said:


> The parent is most likely just checking on his kid and/or trying to keep the attacker away. Not saying attack the kid, but civil parents on the other side should have been trying to subdue the threat that came from their side. We have to see the video. I'm just saying it's not black and white and the kid is 40% older. My immediate concern would be my kid's safety not hurting the attacker. No matter how you slice it, this whole circumstance started and ended with Azteca's sideline. From the gun guy to the assaulting kid, that is what most I've talked to seem concerned about.


Fine, but the Coach is responsible for the conduct of the players and parents (and the parent's siblings).  The Club is responsible for the coach.  The club in question is _Inter America - Azteca FC 2009_, which plays in the _Coast Soccer League_.  It is coached by a guy named _Juan Sanchez_ who is also the Men's Head Coach and Women's interim Head Coach for the Mt. Sac Soccer Programs (note, the email from Azteca FC 2009 and Mt.Sac Soccer coach Sanchez is the same, so same guy.

I don't know if Coach Sanchez was actually coaching his team at this game, but what I do know is every single player and parent on that sideline was there because he allowed them on the team.  Assuming he was on the sideline, you would think a college coach with 18+ years of experience would know how to lay down the law with his parents.

What we can conclude from this whole affair is that these were 10 and 11 year old boys playing 9v9 (uLittle soccer) and their parents are idiots.


----------



## MWN (Jan 20, 2020)

Also note, that his "Azteca" team was not affiliated with any of the Azteca clubs, rather the club was "Inter America":


			COAST SOCCER LEAGUE
		


The issue is the culture of the club "Inter America" is this an anomaly isolated to the Azteca FC 2009 team or systemic within the culture of the club itself?


----------



## espola (Jan 20, 2020)

MWN said:


> Fine, but the Coach is responsible for the conduct of the players and parents (and the parent's siblings).  The Club is responsible for the coach.  The club in question is _Inter America - Azteca FC 2009_, which plays in the _Coast Soccer League_.  It is coached by a guy named _Juan Sanchez_ who is also the Men's Head Coach and Women's interim Head Coach for the Mt. Sac Soccer Programs (note, the email from Azteca FC 2009 and Mt.Sac Soccer coach Sanchez is the same, so same guy.
> 
> I don't know if Coach Sanchez was actually coaching his team at this game, but what I do know is every single player and parent on that sideline was there because he allowed them on the team.  Assuming he was on the sideline, you would think a college coach with 18+ years of experience would know how to lay down the law with his parents.
> 
> What we can conclude from this whole affair is that these were 10 and 11 year old boys playing 9v9 (uLittle soccer) and their parents are idiots.


Interesting.


----------



## younothat (Jan 21, 2020)

MWN said:


> At @espola, stay the "f*$%" off the field.  Let the coaches and refs handle it.  Once you set foot then another parent will and the ref's lose their ability to control anything.  By the time some kid cold-cocks yours, there is nothing you can do.  Stay off.  PERIOD!!!!
> 
> @jpeter, Disagree.  Sanctioning an event means that the promoters of the event have assured Cal South that they are (1) members (and in good standing); (2) have adopted and will enforce the US Youth Soccer/Cal South code of conduct and other US Youth Soccer/Cal South rules and regulations; and (3) will employ a referee association approved by Cal South.  The tournament pays a whopping $100 (one hundred dollars) and delivers:
> 
> ...


CAL South is culpable and there responds clearly shows they have known about the potential problems in the past and failed to do anything to prevent them.

They have been lax in many areas and now are trying to make up for the lack of over site.

They haven't be doing spot auditing to assess and ensure compliance with Cal South safety and sportsmanship policies. 

They didn't consider or require any On-site security personnel and/or law enforcement to enforce the standards for appropriate conduct, respect, etc.

A “Home and Away” side initiative will be implemented and enforced to separate teams and supporters.

They haven't any enough or any on site Referee Coordinators.

This list goes on and yes they are responsible for the mess just like many others so while the legal mumble jumble is amusing the reality is not so pretty but at least they known things needed to change and where forced to do something about them.


----------



## jpeter (Jan 21, 2020)

Youth Soccer is not the only place where parents & siblings go wild / rouge:








						Report: North Carolina father arrested after allegedly tackling son’s HS wrestling opponent
					

One North Carolina father has been arrested after allegedly tackling his son’s high school wrestling opponent. One witness said the student used an illegal move on the man's son which prompted the father's tackle.




					www.yahoo.com
				




Report: North Carolina father arrested after allegedly tackling son’s HS wrestling opponent


----------



## MWN (Jan 21, 2020)

younothat said:


> CAL South is culpable and there responds clearly shows they have known about the potential problems in the past and failed to do anything to prevent them.
> 
> They have been lax in many areas and now are trying to make up for the lack of over site.
> 
> ...


Go back and read the press release.  Cal South's response was here is what we are going to do FOR STATE AND NATIONAL CUP (2 tournaments that ACTUALLY are Cal South events).  This was an Albion Tournament NOT a CAL SOUTH event (note, Cal South events are CRL/National League, State and National Cups).  Nothing in Cal South's press release said any of this applies to 3rd party sanctioned tournaments WHO REMAIN free to operate their tournaments within the rules of US Youth Soccer and Cal South.  

With regard to being Lax, its the tournament operators ... Albion, Southwest, Arsenal, Surf, Slammers, etc.  The tournament operators often overrule the referees when it comes to kicking out coaches who cross the line or parents because they don't want teams to avoid their future tournaments. Also appreciate that CAL SOUTH's members are the clubs (not the parents or players).  The clubs ultimately dictate what they want/need through their Commissioners.  The Executive Team as Cal South is frequently overruled by the Board/Commissioners who all have their own agendas and are beholden to the members (the Clubs), who BTW are the same groups that benefit from operating tournaments.

Why would the Clubs want to expose their coaches and parents to additional rules/regulations and expose their tournaments (Surf, Albion, etc.) to additional costs in the form of security, etc.?


----------



## Keepermom2 (Jan 21, 2020)

I have always understood Cal South to be a governing body and to become an "affiliate member", you answer to their governance policies and procedures.   I thought that meant you as an "affiliate member" could only have your tournament "sanctioned" by them if your tournament met their standards. 

The below quote from their recent press release appears to show they are enforcing oversight responsibilities by investigating the situation and providing consequences.  In their statement, they don't appear to have separated their oversight responsibility from the club's responsibility.   Having said that, I agree with you about law suits.   Cal South can't be sued for this incident anymore than the SEC that governs public companies can be sued for a company that falsifies information to the public.   I am impressed with how Cal South is addressing this issue. 

"Cal South is investigating the situation with its affiliate member and the authorities, and while we review the incident, we are taking the following interim measures:

Due to the seriousness of the situation, both participating teams, their coaches, players, administrators and the spectators involved in this incident are suspended and ineligible to participate in any Cal South sanctioned tournaments until Cal South completes its investigation and holds hearings.
Failure of any team or its staff to participate in Cal South’s investigation will result in further disciplinary action up to and including de-registration from all Cal South sanctioned leagues."


----------



## jpeter (Jan 21, 2020)

Well seems like this is becoming a epidemic:
Massive brawl breaks out at end of Kansas-Kansas State game








						Massive brawl breaks out at end of Kansas-Kansas State game
					

A massive brawl broke out at the very end of Kansas' win against Kansas State on Tuesday night.




					sports.yahoo.com
				





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219802761115643904


----------



## Frank (Jan 21, 2020)

younothat said:


> CAL South is culpable and there responds clearly shows they have known about the potential problems in the past and failed to do anything to prevent them.
> 
> They have been lax in many areas and now are trying to make up for the lack of over site.
> 
> ...


I’m going to go ahead and land on the people who did the bad things are the most at fault. But that’s just m e who believes in personal responsibility versus blaming others. I know; a foreign concept.


----------



## MR.D (Jan 22, 2020)

jpeter said:


> Well seems like this is becoming a epidemic:
> Massive brawl breaks out at end of Kansas-Kansas State game
> 
> 
> ...


Also, what about the father who went after the wrestler for slamming his son.









						Father arrested after slamming teen during high school wrestling match
					

The father of a North Carolina high school wrestler was arrested Saturday, following an incident in which he tackled the son's opponent during a match.




					www.aol.com
				



​


----------



## MWN (Jan 22, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> I have always understood Cal South to be a governing body and to become an "affiliate member", you answer to their governance policies and procedures.   I thought that meant you as an "affiliate member" could only have your tournament "sanctioned" by them if your tournament met their standards.
> 
> The below quote from their recent press release appears to show they are enforcing oversight responsibilities by investigating the situation and providing consequences.  In their statement, they don't appear to have separated their oversight responsibility from the club's responsibility.   Having said that, I agree with you about law suits.   Cal South can't be sued for this incident anymore than the SEC that governs public companies can be sued for a company that falsifies information to the public.   I am impressed with how Cal South is addressing this issue.
> 
> ...


Close and it may just be a matter of semantics.  Technically speaking the only "Governing Body" is US Soccer, which is the National Governing Body for soccer under Federal Law.    Cal South is a US Soccer - "State Association" that must comply with both US Soccer and its "National Association" US Youth Soccer's rules and regulations.   There are 3 youth "National Association" who are members of US Soccer (AYSO, US Club, US Youth Soccer).  Any one of these 3 National Associations could feasibly "sanction" a tournament through their affiliated State Associations/Members.  When Cal South sanctions a tournament, all its it doing is saying that the tournament sponsor is (1) a member of Cal South; (2) will abide by Cal South policies and procedures.

Because this was a Cal South sanctioned tournament, the tournament operator (Albion) and all the teams that signed up for the tournament agreed to abide by Cal South and US Youth Soccer rules and regulations.  Because the clubs Albion and Inter America are both Cal South members, they are subject to the Cal South disciplinary process through the Cal South Standing Committee: "Protest, Appeals and Discipline (PAD)", which is tasked with the investigation and reporting to the board its (PAD's) findings.

Up to this point, all Cal South has done at this point is recognize that the teams, coaches and admins are suspended from "Cal South sanctioned tournaments" until the investigation is over.

The move for enhanced security and sideline adjustment only impacts Cal South events (but not sanctioned events).


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## Soccerlife73 (Jan 22, 2020)

soccercon said:


> *CAL SOUTH EMAIL:
> 
> Cindy Quan
> President and Chairman
> ...


Stupid the kids worked hard for state cup just stupid get the hell out of here


----------



## Soccerlife73 (Jan 22, 2020)

espola said:


>


Wow albion promoting tryouts lmao looks to me center back was over doing  it with forward probably  knew they would end up tie or loose  game


----------



## Soccerlife73 (Jan 22, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Does anyone know if any of the people involved in the fight spent any time at the “Silverlakes Field House”?
> I like a drink as much as anybody. But I don’t think a bar belongs at a youth soccer complex.


Dumb


----------



## Soccerlife73 (Jan 22, 2020)

m0relife said:


> Azteca had 14 cards during the CSL season in the Boys 2009 bracket. Second to them had only 8 cards. Albion had 3 cards in B2008 SDDA Flight 1.


So whats your point albion plays good wholesome  clean soccer smh


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## soccercon (Jan 22, 2020)

Soccerlife73 said:


> So whats your point albion plays good wholesome  clean soccer smh


Your cards speak for themselves.


----------



## soccercon (Jan 22, 2020)

Soccerlife73 said:


> Stupid the kids worked hard for state cup just stupid get the hell out of here


You are to blame.  These replies are what I would expect from your sidelines.


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## Soccerlife73 (Jan 22, 2020)

soccercon said:


> You are to blame.  These replies are what I would expect from your sidelines.


What sidelines you talking about you dont even know where  my kid plays


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## futboldad1 (Jan 23, 2020)

m0relife said:


> I don't think it's that difficult to understand that my point is that Azteca was disciplined for misconduct 14 times during their CSL season and Albion was disciplined 3 times.


Agree......that is a lot of disciplinary points.....highest I have seen except for one girls team that got 20....three or four is a normal amount.....kind of scary to see double figures especially in such a short league season......calsouths announcement was a good one......kudos if they follow it through.......


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## oh canada (Feb 1, 2020)

Cal South - we have not forgotten.  You have a few more days to issue a ruling and public statement.  Games for these two teams were scheduled for next Saturday.


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## PruritusAniFC (Feb 1, 2020)

oh canada said:


> Cal South - we have not forgotten.  You have a few more days to issue a ruling and public statement.  Games for these two teams were scheduled for next Saturday.


That is alarming news to me....I was told that the two teams were not going to be in Tournament.  I agree with you, I would like to see a ruling and public statement.


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## PruritusAniFC (Feb 1, 2020)

Has anyone else received a e-mail from Portland Group about a inquiry about a potential lawsuit action pertaining to the " gun scare " that day?


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## oh canada (Feb 3, 2020)

PruritusAniFC said:


> That is alarming news to me....I was told that the two teams were not going to be in Tournament.  I agree with you, I would like to see a ruling and public statement.


If this is the one team, they are still shown on the schedule to play.  Maybe they will be shown as forfeiting and the other teams in their group only play twice?  Sharks, Murrieta Surf or Barca in their group heard anything?





__





						Cal South Soccer - View Schedule
					






					cysa.affinitysoccer.com


----------



## SoCal23 (Feb 3, 2020)

Cal South is going to sneak them in....and that's too bad....It's important they get a severe punishment to send a message to all.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Feb 3, 2020)

I really hope that's not the case as far as Calsouth sneaking them in.  As far as their statement says, the teams are suspended and ineligible to play until the investigation is over.  I have yet to see anything else put out since their initial statement so I am assuming the investigation is still on-going. 

If they try to put out a statement the day before these teams are slated to play, that will reflect poorly on CalSouth and I am sure the parents that have been monitoring this situation will raise hell. 



SoCal23 said:


> Cal South is going to sneak them in....and that's too bad....It's important they get a severe punishment to send a message to all.


----------



## dad4 (Feb 3, 2020)

If CalSouth can't manage a ban, the other coaches can.

Just refuse to play the thug team.  Boycott them.  Let the psycho parents cheer at an empty field.


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## espola (Feb 3, 2020)

dad4 said:


> If CalSouth can't manage a ban, the other coaches can.
> 
> Just refuse to play the thug team.  Boycott them.  Let the psycho parents cheer at an empty field.


Would the forfeit one, forfeit all rule be applied?


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## dad4 (Feb 4, 2020)

espola said:


> Would the forfeit one, forfeit all rule be applied?


We are talking a gun scare versus a soccer game.

Who suffers how many forfeits is kind of irrelevant.


----------



## espola (Feb 4, 2020)

dad4 said:


> We are talking a gun scare versus a soccer game.
> 
> Who suffers how many forfeits is kind of irrelevant.


Punishing the innocent along with the guilty is relevant.  Teams that refuse to play a team because they deem them to be dangerous or want to shun them risk having all their games recorded as forfeits.  

11.6.1.1. Intentional Forfeit - When a team fails to appear for a scheduled game by the official game start time inclusive of the grace period provided by the Competition, the Cal South SCCP shall have the authority to rule on the intent of the Team’s failure to appear. If there was intent to forfeit the game the Team will Forfeit the game and cause engagement of the FOFA Rule. 



			https://calsouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/2020-State-Cup-Rules-10_03_19.pdf
		


FOFA is Forfeit One Forfeit All.


----------



## timbuck (Feb 4, 2020)

Suspend the player who’s sibling ran on the field and punched a player. Suspend the player who is connected to the guy that threatened to have a gun. 
Why is this so difficult?


----------



## jpeter (Feb 4, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Suspend the player who’s sibling ran on the field and punched a player. Suspend the player who is connected to the guy that threatened to have a gun.
> Why is this so difficult?


Cal south is not going to do anything as usual.. make general statement and walk away. 

There a big part of the problem but let's just keep focusing on the few individuals and not take responsibility for enforcing code of conduct, having proper oversight, training, etc, it's everyone else problem we are only here to sanction and take your tournaments money.   When the lawsuits roll in they will be forced to change as usual.


----------



## espola (Feb 4, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Suspend the player who’s sibling ran on the field and punched a player. Suspend the player who is connected to the guy that threatened to have a gun.
> Why is this so difficult?


The violent sibling and the camo backpack guy should be the object of restraining orders keeping them away from any Cal South tournament location by now (Cal South surely has an attorney on retainer (or volunteer?) ).  The rest of the family and teammates should be warned adequately by seeing that happen.


----------



## dad4 (Feb 4, 2020)

espola said:


> The violent sibling and the camo backpack guy should be the object of restraining orders keeping them away from any Cal South tournament location by now (Cal South surely has an attorney on retainer (or volunteer?) ).  The rest of the family and teammates should be warned adequately by seeing that happen.


That would be fine.

However, if cal south can't manage it, then the games are not safe.

Would you want to ref a game for camo backpack guy?  Or have your kid at his game?


----------



## Banana Hammock (Feb 4, 2020)

What would it look like if the refs refused to call the game?


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## Soccer43 (Feb 4, 2020)

I am 100% for reining in bad parent behaviors and holding parents and coaches and clubs responsible for maintaining a sane and appropriate and safe environment.  That being said, there was no proof that camo bag guy did what he was accused of doing so how can cal south or anyone institute sanctions against him with a restraining order or any type of ban?  This is a public venue .


----------



## watfly (Feb 4, 2020)

Banana Hammock said:


> What would it look like if the refs refused to call the game?


I get it, but it's not really the refs cross to bear.  They would also fear losing $ and probably future assignments.  Just like parents fear speaking out about their ill behaved coach for fear of retribution for their kid.  And why clubs ignore or sweep under the rug the bad behavior of winning coaches  to protect the Club's reputation.  For club soccer today its ultimately about $ and/or prestige for the clubs, DOC's and coaches and bragging rights for the parents.  The well-being of the kids is a distant second.

To me it not so much about the substantive safety changes made by Calsouth (although team and that team's parents on the same side is good policy).  It's about the message you send when you hold everyone accountable for bad conduct.  You can have all the rules you want about proper conduct, but if you don't enforce them they're meaningless.

I'm still holding out hope that Calsouth will follow through with punishment, but I'm not holding my breath.  I suspect there maybe a lot of parents that are going to hold Calsouth's "feet to the fire" on this incident.


----------



## espola (Feb 4, 2020)

Soccer43 said:


> I am 100% for reining in bad parent behaviors and holding parents and coaches and clubs responsible for maintaining a sane and appropriate and safe environment.  That being said, there was no proof that camo bag guy did what he was accused of doing so how can cal south or anyone institute sanctions against him with a restraining order or any type of ban?  This is a public venue .


Since he would be the object of the proposed restraining order, he would have his chance to argue his position to the judge.


----------



## Frank (Feb 4, 2020)

watfly said:


> I get it, but it's not really the refs cross to bear.  They would also fear losing $ and probably future assignments.  Just like parents fear speaking out about their ill behaved coach for fear of retribution for their kid.  And why clubs ignore or sweep under the rug the bad behavior of winning coaches  to protect the Club's reputation.  For club soccer today its ultimately about $ and/or prestige for the clubs, DOC's and coaches and bragging rights for the parents.  The well-being of the kids is a distant second.
> 
> To me it not so much about the substantive safety changes made by Calsouth (although team and that team's parents on the same side is good policy).  It's about the message you send when you hold everyone accountable for bad conduct.  You can have all the rules you want about proper conduct, but if you don't enforce them they're meaningless.
> 
> I'm still holding out hope that Calsouth will follow through with punishment, but I'm not holding my breath.  I suspect there maybe a lot of parents that are going to hold Calsouth's "feet to the fire" on this incident.


I too like the parents on the sidline of their bench.  It doesnt stop all chaos. Last State Cup weekend a game got interupted as the manager and one of the teams parents getting in to it.  I will give credit to CalSouth and the Ref Coordinators as they were immediately on it in force.


----------



## dad4 (Feb 4, 2020)

Cal South needs to be real on this one.  If it happens twice, say goodbye to your out if state tournament revenue.  

No one is paying $1000 per kid for airfare and a hotel so their kid can play against the Surenos.


----------



## MWN (Feb 4, 2020)

Let me understand the last few posts, but first let's review the facts:

1) Fight on field between 2 players;
2) Minor brother enters field of play and punches another minor player:
3) Parents enter field ... don't fight;
4) A few parents "believe" without seeing any weapon that another parent has a weapon;
5) No brandishing a gun, no shots fired, no weapon found.
6) People run away based on a false statement of a gun.

... and Cal South isn't doing its job based on a few internet poster's speculating about stuff arising from an event based on a false claim.

...sigh.

P.S. - we should also start blaming Cal South for the coronavirus, I suppose.


----------



## watfly (Feb 4, 2020)

MWN said:


> Let me understand the last few posts, but first let's review the facts:
> 
> 1) Fight on field between 2 players;
> 2) Minor brother enters field of play and punches another minor player:
> ...


Run that sentiment by parents and kids who were running for their lives screaming and crying (I can tell you from talking to them that their fear was real).  Yes, lets wait until the gun is real before Calsouth hands out discipline.  I believe you're a ref...so if you're reffing a game and I threaten violence against you, but I never raise a fist or come within striking range of you, then its not within Calsouth's responsibility to sanction me (assuming the club or no other entity takes action)?

Again, your confusing blame with responsibility.   Calsouth has acknowledged its responsibility with its public statement and many of us are hoping they follow through.  As I mentioned before,  I couldn't care less about the legal aspects of this issue or even to some extent the fairness issues regarding the punishment.  On rare occasions an incident is so troubling that you have to make an example out of all those involved regardless of level of culpability.    Hundreds of parents and kids running in real fear for their lives is one of those occasions.

P.S. your coronavirus comment is a logical fallacy and undermines your argument.


----------



## ajaxahi (Feb 4, 2020)

I have been told that the Azteca and Albion South 2009 teams will be allowed to play in their State Cup games this weekend, but that parents/families from both teams will not be permitted to be at the games. Not sure how this will be enforced, other than that it will be verified by CalSouth officials and self-enforced by the teams themselves with the penalty of elimination from State Cup if they are found to be in violation. I have not verified this info with CalSouth but got it from a reliable source.


----------



## SoCal23 (Feb 4, 2020)

ajaxahi said:


> I have been told that the Azteca and Albion South 2009 teams will be allowed to play in their State Cup games this weekend, but that parents/families from both teams will not be permitted to be at the games. Not sure how this will be enforced, other than that it will be verified by CalSouth officials and self-enforced by the teams themselves with the penalty of elimination from State Cup if they are found to be in violation. I have not verified this info with CalSouth but got it from a reliable source.


I knew it....no other reason why they would still be listed on the State Cup brackets....What a shame!


----------



## Emma (Feb 4, 2020)

ajaxahi said:


> I have been told that the Azteca and Albion South 2009 teams will be allowed to play in their State Cup games this weekend, but that parents/families from both teams will not be permitted to be at the games. Not sure how this will be enforced, other than that it will be verified by CalSouth officials and self-enforced by the teams themselves with the penalty of elimination from State Cup if they are found to be in violation. I have not verified this info with CalSouth but got it from a reliable source.


Hopefully this is true.  This is a great resolution by Cal South.  hopefully the sideline ban will be longer than just state cup.


----------



## jpeter (Feb 4, 2020)

MWN said:


> Let me understand the last few posts, but first let's review the facts:
> 
> 1) Fight on field between 2 players;
> 2) Minor brother enters field of play and punches another minor player:
> ...


Let me get this straight you work in the law field and are always defending the establishment.

Pretty simple Cal south hasn't been doing what needed to done for years and this incident highlights that.  They have taken some beginning steps to rectify there. lack of oversight but still haven't followed through on what was published in their albion statement.


----------



## watfly (Feb 4, 2020)

ajaxahi said:


> I have been told that the Azteca and Albion South 2009 teams will be allowed to play in their State Cup games this weekend, but that parents/families from both teams will not be permitted to be at the games. Not sure how this will be enforced, other than that it will be verified by CalSouth officials and self-enforced by the teams themselves with the penalty of elimination from State Cup if they are found to be in violation. I have not verified this info with CalSouth but got it from a reliable source.


I was hoping for more (which maybe there is), but I'm OK with this result.  Hopefully the parents are banned for the duration of State Cup and not just the weekend.  It might be a huge advantage for those teams not to have their parents attend.


----------



## espola (Feb 4, 2020)

ajaxahi said:


> I have been told that the Azteca and Albion South 2009 teams will be allowed to play in their State Cup games this weekend, but that parents/families from both teams will not be permitted to be at the games. Not sure how this will be enforced, other than that it will be verified by CalSouth officials and self-enforced by the teams themselves with the penalty of elimination from State Cup if they are found to be in violation. I have not verified this info with CalSouth but got it from a reliable source.


How far away do they have to be?

I subbed for our coach once when he was sitting out a one-game suspension.  He called me every few minutes with suggestions on substitutes and strategy.   I got the impression he was watching the game and I couldn't figure out where, but it must have been close because he made the post-game meeting.


----------



## Grace T. (Feb 4, 2020)

The assumption then is the coaches have been cleared of any wrong doing then if they are present to coach their teams?  Since we don't know what role the coaches played in the incident (including taking responsibility for calming their sidelines) I'm not sure if this is fair or unfair, though from the reports at least one coach was carrying a yellow and contributed to the environment which ultimately led to the situation.


----------



## SDMama (Feb 4, 2020)

ajaxahi said:


> I have been told that the Azteca and Albion South 2009 teams will be allowed to play in their State Cup games this weekend, but that parents/families from both teams will not be permitted to be at the games. Not sure how this will be enforced, other than that it will be verified by CalSouth officials and self-enforced by the teams themselves with the penalty of elimination from State Cup if they are found to be in violation. I have not verified this info with CalSouth but got it from a reliable source.


CalSouth statement - https://calsouth.com/cal-south-statement-regarding-albion-tournament-in-temecula-ca/
“We will keep our members informed of the next steps to be taken.”

Did they mean they would inform member clubs?  Or member families? (or do you think they actually intend to give an update on next steps?)


----------



## jpeter (Feb 5, 2020)

SDMama said:


> CalSouth statement - https://calsouth.com/cal-south-statement-regarding-albion-tournament-in-temecula-ca/
> “We will keep our members informed of the next steps to be taken.”
> 
> Did they mean they would inform member clubs?  Or member families? (or do you think they actually intend to give an update on next steps?)


"Our members" is everyone that has a CS card, players,  coaches, directors + all have signed to follow the code of conduct like parents.

Obviously there are players, coaches, and parents that did not adhere to the code.  Now it's time to see if CS enforces their own code, rules, etc or they don't which makes them pretty much paper tigers...


----------



## espola (Feb 5, 2020)

jpeter said:


> "Our members" is everyone that has a CS card, players,  coaches, directors + all have signed to follow the code of conduct like parents.
> 
> Obviously there are players, coaches, and parents that did not adhere to the code.  Now it's time to see if CS enforces their own code, rules, etc or they don't which makes them pretty much paper tigers...


According to the Cal South bylaws, a "member" is an accepted club or league, plus the human beings chosen by the Members to sit on the Board of Directors.  For most matters, only the Directors ever vote to decide anything, the big exception being the Annual General Meeting votes to select Directors, wherein the club or league gets votes in proportion to the number of players they have registered to play (" one (1) vote for each three hundred and seventy-five (375) Players, or fraction thereof, but in no case shall an Affiliate Member’s number of votes exceed eight (8)").



			https://calsouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/CS-Bylaws-100919.pdf
		


That's not you, and that's not me, and that's not any specific player, coach, club director, or referee (unless elected as a Director), so it is easier for the BOD to keep the membership under control than one might suspect.


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## dad4 (Feb 5, 2020)

Didn't take them long to decide to sweep it under the rug.

The indefinite ban has already been reduced to a one tournament limitation on spectators.  And we are only 3 weeks into it.

Apparently thug clubs are welcome at Cal South.


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## jpeter (Feb 5, 2020)

espola said:


> According to the Cal South bylaws, a "member" is an accepted club or league, plus the human beings chosen by the Members to sit on the Board of Directors.  For most matters, only the Directors ever vote to decide anything, the big exception being the Annual General Meeting votes to select Directors, wherein the club or league gets votes in proportion to the number of players they have registered to play (" one (1) vote for each three hundred and seventy-five (375) Players, or fraction thereof, but in no case shall an Affiliate Member’s number of votes exceed eight (8)").
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the legal mumbo jumbo  

If you're a CS card holder as far i'm concern you're a member and agreed to follow the rules of conduct.  In fact when you register & sign that wavier you agree to abide by the rules.


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## espola (Feb 5, 2020)

jpeter said:


> Thanks for the legal mumbo jumbo
> 
> If you're a CS card holder as far i'm concern you're a member and agreed to follow the rules of conduct.  In fact when you register & sign that wavier you agree to abide by the rules.


The "legal mumbo jumbo" is the actual foundation of how Cal South operates.  Despite your self-appointed "membership", the power of your personal rights might end at your club's election of officers (and some clubs resist allowing parents of players to have even that limited right).

I'm not saying that is right, or that I support it, but that is reality.


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## jpeter (Feb 5, 2020)

espola said:


> The "legal mumbo jumbo" is the actual foundation of how Cal South operates.  Despite your self-appointed "membership", the power of your personal rights might end at your club's election of officers (and some clubs resist allowing parents of players to have even that limited right).
> 
> I'm not saying that is right, or that I support it, but that is reality.


Ok thanks, personally  not involved with CS nor is my player. However, I do know participates did sign to abide by the rules if there members or not.   When they don't who should be ones carring out the corrective actions if warranted?


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## espola (Feb 5, 2020)

jpeter said:


> Ok thanks, personally  not involved with CS nor is my player. However, I do know participates did sign to abide by the rules if there members or not.   When they don't who should be ones carring out the corrective actions if warranted?


Cal South has the authority to suspend expel any player, coach, or club/league administrator they wish, and they exercise that power regularly.  Referees have the implied authority to remove spectators from a game location even if they have never signed any papers.  I think the exercise of signing a paper where you agree to obey the rules is more of a personnel management sociological trick than anything "legal".


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## MWN (Feb 5, 2020)

@espola and @jpeter,

There are voting and non voting members of Cal South.  The Clubs and Leagues are voting members.  The others are all non-voting "associate members" ... players, coaches, referees, parents. Etc.  (Bylaws, Section 1 Definitions).  These associate members, are members nonetheless.


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## ItsJustSoccer (Feb 5, 2020)

Has CalSouth issued another statement or is this all speculation and hear say that the 2 teams will be allowed to play but the sidelines cant attend? 
Just trying to get the facts on what to expect this weekend.


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## Surfref (Feb 6, 2020)

Soccer43 said:


> I am 100% for reining in bad parent behaviors and holding parents and coaches and clubs responsible for maintaining a sane and appropriate and safe environment.  That being said, there was no proof that camo bag guy did what he was accused of doing so how can cal south or anyone institute sanctions against him with a restraining order or any type of ban?  This is a public venue .


There is video of him.  It was shown on San Diego evening news.


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## Soccer43 (Feb 7, 2020)

I am not defending anything about this but what did the video show?  That he was walking back and forth with his hand in a bag?  What does that prove?


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## MWN (Feb 7, 2020)

Soccer43 said:


> I am not defending anything about this but what did the video show?  That he was walking back and forth with his hand in a bag?  What does that prove?


It proves that (1) he is not a paraplegic, (2) he had a bag, (3) "he" was not a "she" (but could have identified as one ... we don't know); and (4) he was on the field and not on the sideline.


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## SDMama (Feb 7, 2020)

ItsJustSoccer said:


> Has CalSouth issued another statement or is this all speculation and hear say that the 2 teams will be allowed to play but the sidelines cant attend?
> Just trying to get the facts on what to expect this weekend.


I’m curious about this, too. I just went back and re-reread the statement on the CalSouth website, and it says, 

Due to the seriousness of the situation, both participating teams, their coaches, players, administrators and the spectators involved in this incident are suspended and ineligible to participate in any Cal South sanctioned tournaments until Cal South completes its investigation and holds hearings.
So, if those teams are going to participate this weekend, then the investigation was completed and hearings were held?  I would think they’d commmunicate their findings before allowing the teams to participate. 

(I think those teams are scheduled on adjacent fields back to back on Saturday.)


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## jpeter (Feb 7, 2020)

SDMama said:


> I’m curious about this, too. I just went back and re-reread the statement on the CalSouth website, and it says,
> 
> Due to the seriousness of the situation, both participating teams, their coaches, players, administrators and the spectators involved in this incident are suspended and ineligible to participate in any Cal South sanctioned tournaments until Cal South completes its investigation and holds hearings.
> So, if those teams are going to participate this weekend, then the investigation was completed and hearings were held?  I would think they’d commmunicate their findings before allowing the teams to participate.
> ...


CS modus operandi has been to:







Will they do anything else? Apparently not.


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## espola (Feb 7, 2020)

SDMama said:


> I’m curious about this, too. I just went back and re-reread the statement on the CalSouth website, and it says,
> 
> Due to the seriousness of the situation, both participating teams, their coaches, players, administrators and the spectators involved in this incident are suspended and ineligible to participate in any Cal South sanctioned tournaments until Cal South completes its investigation and holds hearings.
> So, if those teams are going to participate this weekend, then the investigation was completed and hearings were held?  I would think they’d commmunicate their findings before allowing the teams to participate.
> ...


Cal South is notorious about not communicating results of hearings.  In most cases, they are dealing with minors, so that is understandable.


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## Ivanka17 (Feb 7, 2020)

I was told by someone who knows a azteca parent (lol)  that both teams are not participating in State Cup this weekend.


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## angelmmdc (Feb 7, 2020)




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## espola (Feb 7, 2020)

angelmmdc said:


> View attachment 6356







__





						Cal South Soccer - View Schedule
					






					cysa.affinitysoccer.com
				




Did they get their entry fees refunded?  Are the players now free agents able to play on other teams (older and/or National Cup)?


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## MWN (Feb 7, 2020)

jpeter said:


> CS modus operandi has been to:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both teams were not allowed to participate ... forfeit AND Cal South has redefined how sidelines are configured from a field set up, AND Cal South is in the process of requiring an Emergency Action Plan for facilities AND increasing the security presence at all State and National cup events.

What do you think they are sweeping under the rug, in light of the fact there may be litigation and public disclosures of discipline may impact that litigation?


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## dad4 (Feb 7, 2020)

MWN said:


> Both teams were not allowed to participate ... forfeit AND Cal South has redefined how sidelines are configured from a field set up, AND Cal South is in the process of requiring an Emergency Action Plan for facilities AND increasing the security presence at all State and National cup events.
> 
> What do you think they are sweeping under the rug, in light of the fact there may be litigation and public disclosures of discipline may impact that litigation?


I was too quick to call it sweeping under the rug.

As soon as the forfeits are official, time for me to eat crow.


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## BruceDern (Feb 8, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I was too quick to call it sweeping under the rug.
> 
> As soon as the forfeits are official, time for me to eat crow.


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## paytoplay (Feb 8, 2020)

all because of gun guy, no soccer for you, ten year olds


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## jpeter (Feb 8, 2020)

MWN said:


> Both teams were not allowed to participate ... forfeit AND Cal South has redefined how sidelines are configured from a field set up, AND Cal South is in the process of requiring an Emergency Action Plan for facilities AND increasing the security presence at all State and National cup events.
> 
> What do you think they are sweeping under the rug, in light of the fact there may be litigation and public disclosures of discipline may impact that litigation?


The part about informing members in the follow-up...

You seem to know more about there plans then what's published. Why is that? 

But at least they seemed to be headed in the right direction if like you say they have finally decided to have actual safety & security plans that where obviously missing prior.

Until a follow up statement or other things are published don't really know or the basis for the forfeit was based on what? Terms that the teams didn't agree to?  Too many players ineligible, coaches suspended or what? To teach a lesson to others more info is needed.


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## Soccerhelper (Feb 8, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I was too quick to call it sweeping under the rug.
> 
> As soon as the forfeits are official, time for me to eat crow.


I've had to eat crow a few times too dad of 4 kids.  My mom had 12.  "Pride before the fall and humility comes before honor."  Kobe had lot's of pride and then some falls early in life.  I've been astonished and motivated with what Kobe was up to after hoops.  He seemed to have learned the secret to life. He said he learned to love and love means being patient and showing empathy towards others.  Living with 5 ladies in one house and mother in law a few houses down will teach you many things I bet


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## MWN (Feb 9, 2020)

jpeter said:


> You seem to know more about there plans then what's published. Why is that?


Because I'm well informed.  I know people at all levels and I'm trusted with information.  I also understand how things work at a very deep level, which enables me to make fairly accurate assumptions (when I guess).  Interestingly enough, each team was suspended/forfeited for slightly different reasons. 



paytoplay said:


> all because of gun guy, no soccer for you, ten year olds


No.  All because the parents entered the field and escalated a situation which the referees were in the process of controlling ... and the in case of one of those teams played games with Cal South.  The forfeits are because the coaches and adults believed the rules did not apply.  There is one group that really "caused" this event and that was the parents of both teams.


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## espola (Feb 9, 2020)

MWN said:


> Because I'm well informed.  I know people at all levels and I'm trusted with information.  I also understand how things work at a very deep level, which enables me to make fairly accurate assumptions (when I guess).  Interestingly enough, each team was suspended/forfeited for slightly different reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> No.  All because the parents entered the field and escalated a situation which the referees were in the process of controlling ... and the in case of one of those teams played games with Cal South.  The forfeits are because the coaches and adults believed the rules did not apply.  There is one group that really "caused" this event and that was the parents of both teams.


Nonsense.


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## oh canada (Feb 10, 2020)

CalSouth did the right thing here--give credit where due.  Makes me think they are serious about doing something long term.  Though lawsuits often do that.


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## espola (Feb 10, 2020)

oh canada said:


> CalSouth did the right thing here--give credit where due.  Makes me think they are serious about doing something long term.  Though lawsuits often do that.


The whole thing looks like a plea bargain compromise.  "Just go away and we won't punish you."  I'm still wondering if their entry fees were refunded.


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