# Where does the Money Go? (Take II)



## Chicharito (Dec 14, 2016)

So can anyone shed more light on how a club like Slammers FC thinks it is fair game to underhand teams of "Team Funds"?  Apparently CDA Tustin/YL now Slammers FC found it righteous to clean out team accounts of team funds if a team decided to find its own way with CDA OC.  Whoever found this to be a good idea should be removed from the organization, as the downfall from such poor foresight could have a big impact to the overall "Brand".


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## lancer (Dec 14, 2016)

The person responsible is Steve Patterson.  He emptied my two kids' team account of about $6000 a piece.  He is upset that the yorba linda coaches moved over to CDA slammers of Orange so they could practice on lit fields.  He also is threatening to replace coaches before state cup.  even though we were already registered and accepted with the CDA Slammers, not Slammers FC where he went to right after OCP joined CDA,

The shit hit the fan last night when we all received an email threatening us that if we did not abandon the coaches we have contracts with through state cup, and commit to his new slammers FC out fit with in 48 hours, he would assume we are resigning from the club and we would forfeit all team fees.

here is his delightful holiday greeting sent 3 days before we go dark...

Dear Parents,

Your coach has officially resigned from CDA Slammers FC Yorba Linda. 

In light of the changes with our coaching staff, CDA Slammers FC Yorba Linda and Tustin will continue to support all player’s commitments to the club. We have made some changes in the organization but all commitments stay intact. CDA Slammers FC Tustin and Yorba Linda have officially become Slammers FC. This in no way will effect the commitment made to your teams and will only benefit them moving forward. 

*What happens now that your coach is no longer part of the organization?*

By your coach leaving they are no longer employed for any work needed by or organization. No different than if they left any other company. Our responsibility is to the player and the team. Moving forward we will hire a new coach to replace all departing coaches. We understand that some players will follow coaches and other will want to stay. Unfortunately this always presents situations that are not ideal for all parties but we are committed to all players that are committed to the club. We ask that all players inform the club if you you plan to stay so that we can get a full count of players for each team. You have the option to move to other Slammers FC teams from Newport and new teams forming as well. If enough return then a new coach will be put in place.

*Financial Info*

As a courtesy reminder player’s commitments are to the club and not to the team or coaches. Our responsibility as a club is to fulfill our commitment to all players. We understand that some players will leave and follow  coaches that have left or have been let go and other players will want to stay with the club. This always presents situations that are not ideal for all parties but we are committed to all players. Coaches leaving or being released by the club in no way makes you obligated to follow those coaches. Though we understand that some will. If you have chosen to move on with your coach to a new club please understand that you have forfeited your commitment to the club and all financials will stay with the club. 

*Questions*

Please feel free to reach out to the club with any questions.

We look forward to hearing back from each of you individually.


*Player Commitment or Resignation from Slammers FC
CLICK HERE*
* Please reply within 48 hours or we will assume you have resigned from the club. 

Happy Holidays!


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## Frank (Dec 14, 2016)

So if I get this right as it is not clear; teams left CDA to Slammers and CDA kept their money.  if that is right I would say that is likely standard operating.  If a team leaves to another club the funds they leave behind are gone and they should have spent it all before they left.  Right or wrong I believe that is the general way it works. I have experienced this and before the team left we signed up for every tourney we could in advance to ensure our funds at the departing club were close to nil


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## timbuck (Dec 14, 2016)

Is there some rule that a team fund account needs to be kept by the club?  
Why not let a team manager hold on to it?  (of course, they could still leave and take the money).


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## lancer (Dec 14, 2016)

the teams that left were CDA and are still cda, just at orange.  CDA Slammers of Tustin and Yorba Linda are now Slammer FC and no longer affiliated with CDA.


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## Frank the Tank (Dec 14, 2016)

This Patterson guy sounds like a real winner, not sure why Whalid and the Camargos would want to be associated with this guy if this is true.  Maybe JO has returned in this Patterson guys body. 
Is it just me or is this becoming one of the dirtiest businesses out there, remember its supposed to be about the kids


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## Round (Dec 14, 2016)

Frank the Tank said:


> This Patterson guy sounds like a real winner, not sure why Whalid and the Camargos would want to be associated with this guy if this is true.  Maybe JO has returned in this Patterson guys body.
> Is it just me or is this becoming one of the dirtiest businesses out there, remember its supposed to be about the kids


It stopped being about the kids as soon as men in track suits started making a living out of this.  The advent of academy was the beginning of the end. Then ECNL, then Scdsl, it's our fault.


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## RedHawk (Dec 14, 2016)

Those coaches should have been smart enough to know that a club is not going to allow them to leave and take the all their players with them before state cup is over.


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## timbuck (Dec 14, 2016)

How was there $6k in team funds left over this late in the year?  That seems like quite a lot. What was that money supposed to be used for?


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## LadiesMan217 (Dec 14, 2016)

lancer said:


> The person responsible is Steve Patterson.  He emptied my two kids' team account of about $6000 a piece.  He is upset that the yorba linda coaches moved over to CDA slammers of Orange so they could practice on lit fields.  He also is threatening to replace coaches before state cup.  even though we were already registered and accepted with the CDA Slammers, not Slammers FC where he went to right after OCP joined CDA,
> 
> The shit hit the fan last night when we all received an email threatening us that if we did not abandon the coaches we have contracts with through state cup, and commit to his new slammers FC out fit with in 48 hours, he would assume we are resigning from the club and we would forfeit all team fees.
> 
> ...


You had a contract with the coach? I find that hard to believe. I would think you had a contract with the club and that club still holds the contract just under a different affiliation/name. I see nothing wrong here. Maybe I am confused.


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## Flipthrow (Dec 14, 2016)

*Player Commitment or Resignation from Slammers FC*
*CLICK HERE*
* Please reply within 48 hours or we will assume you have resigned from the club.

Happy Holidays![/QUOTE]

Happy Holidays indeed.  For Christmas Suzy wants to keep her coach and at least half her team mates.  Mommy doesn't want to have to buy a new uniform that will be good until spring, and Daddy just wants to know how Slammers Fc and CDA Slammers have a business relationship still.  Maybe CDA (Can't Decide Affiliation) should just go back to being Infinity.


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## timbuck (Dec 14, 2016)

What coaches are leaving?
Did I get this right-
 CDA Slammers Tustin/YL is moving to "Slammers" (the original from Newport). 
And a new CDA Slammers group is forming which will be known as CDA Slammers Orange?  (Which was known as OJSC before?).


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## Daniel Miller (Dec 15, 2016)

It is hard to decipher what is going on here.  Without knowing details, this is what it sounds like to me:

Coaches left, and players and/or teams followed.  The old club then confiscated all of the money in the "team" accounts of the teams leaving.  

If so, then the old club better refund the money to the individual parents who put the money into the team accounts.  In all cases I have seen, "team"accounts are not "club" accounts, even though clubs are often co-signators.  These team accounts are typically "trust" accounts used as a matter of convenience to hold parents' money for tournament and referee fees in one place.  They are not meant to hold fees owed to the club's benefit, and I would bet a thousand dollars that the club in question has no written contract with its parents saying otherwise.  The money in the "team" account is parents' money, pure and simple.  It must be returned to the individual parents who contributed the funds in the amount of their contributions.  So Joey's Dad gets back his $700, and Billy's Dad gets back his $575, or whatever each parent's actual contribution was.

When a club takes this money, it is "converting" the parent's money to its own use, which is a tort at least, and possibly a crime.


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## lancer (Dec 15, 2016)

timbuck said:


> How was there $6k in team funds left over this late in the year?  That seems like quite a lot. What was that money supposed to be used for?


The 6 K was in two accounts for two teams.  Club fees were paid in September and the balance was for coaches, ref fees, and a little left over because we did not play a in a couple of tournaments that we budgeted for last spring.


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## lancer (Dec 15, 2016)

Daniel Miller said:


> It is hard to decipher what is going on here.  Without knowing details, this is what it sounds like to me:
> 
> Coaches left, and players and/or teams followed.  The old club then confiscated all of the money in the "team" accounts of the teams leaving.
> 
> ...


pretty much sums it up.


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## timbuck (Dec 15, 2016)

lancer said:


> The 6 K was in two accounts for two teams.  Club fees were paid in September and the balance was for coaches, ref fees, and a little left over because we did not play a in a couple of tournaments that we budgeted for last spring.


How much of that was due to the coaches?  How often are they paid?
Seems that if they left their employer, they should be paid for any time they worked but hadn't been paid for yet. Any future earnings likely doesn't get paid to the coach.


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## Frank (Dec 15, 2016)

The money stays in the club.  If the team still exists (ID staying with Club), which I would argue they will say that it does, the players that left quit the team to go somewhere else.  No club is going to refund for that


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## Frank the Tank (Dec 15, 2016)

Here are the facts as I have been told by many involved in this situation.
#1 - Person who ran CDA YL/Tustin was not happy about CDA merging with OCP
#2 - Person who ran CDA YL/Tustin agreed to give up license and move over to Slammers FC Newport
#3 - Coaches and DOC decide to leave to go to CDA Orange due to individual not providing adequate services such as fields with lights
#4 - YL teams are under contract with CDA not Slammers FC until after State Cup/National Cup
#5 - Person who ran CDA YL/Tustin who is now with Slammers FC has drained CDA Slammers team account and taken those funds to Slammers FC Newport.  
#6 - Current CDA YL teams and coaches are now without any funds to run team


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## bababooey (Dec 15, 2016)

That was one of the most poorly constructed emails I have seen in a while. Crappy situation for all parents involved.


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## Daniel Miller (Dec 15, 2016)

Frank the Tank said:


> #5 - Person who ran CDA YL/Tustin who is now with Slammers FC has drained CDA Slammers team account and taken those funds to Slammers FC Newport.


Then the person who took the funds better refund every penny funds to the parents who paid in.  He or she could be in a lot of legal trouble soon.


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## LadiesMan217 (Dec 15, 2016)

Frank the Tank said:


> Here are the facts as I have been told by many involved in this situation.
> #1 - Person who ran CDA YL/Tustin was not happy about CDA merging with OCP
> #2 - Person who ran CDA YL/Tustin agreed to give up license and move over to Slammers FC Newport
> #3 - Coaches and DOC decide to leave to go to CDA Orange due to individual not providing adequate services such as fields with lights
> ...


Ohhhh #4-6 if true are bad things .


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## Nextbigthing (Dec 15, 2016)

So if my DD's coach at West Coast decides to leave and go to another club mid season is West Coast going to continue pay him?  Then a group of us parents decides to follow him Midseason and ask for our money back from West Coast are they going to cut us checks?   They are absolutely NOT going to give any money back.  Not sure why this concept is so hard.   You quit!!  Don't expect any money.


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## Daniel Miller (Dec 15, 2016)

So if my DD's coach at West Coast decides to leave and go to another club mid season is West Coast going to continue pay him? 
No, of course not, unless he is owed back-pay.  He should be paid for his time served.

Then a group of us parents decides to follow him Midseason and ask for our money back from West Coast are they going to cut us checks?  
Depending on what the club contract says about annual fees and refund policies, the club may or may not be legally responsible for refunding money paid in advance by a parent.  But "team accounts" are usually something different.  These are the costs anticipated by teams who sign up for tournaments, or referee fees, or other sundries.  *These funds do not "belong" to either the club or the "team."*  The funds are being held for the benefit of the parents.  If any parent wants a refund of the these amounts, then the person or organization in charge of the account must return the funds.  Especially if the team has moved to another club, where the parents have no contractual obligation whatsoever. 

They are absolutely NOT going to give any money back.  Not sure why this concept is so hard.   You quit!!  Don't expect any money.
Can't argue with you there.  People and clubs don't always do the right thing.


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## lancer (Dec 15, 2016)

None of the coaches quit.  They moved to lit fields that belong to another CDA affiliate.

Furthermore, most of YL  CDA slammers never were able to play or practice in yorba linda as promised.  A few teams got space at yorba linda HS, but  the closest my kids' teams got was placentia and that was because they were playing a Pats team that actually secured space in their cities.  Our practice field had no lights.  The DOC brought in portable lights but we got kicked out because our club fees were not being used pay the private school for use of their field


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## timbuck (Dec 15, 2016)

Which coaches / teams went to CDA Orange?


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## Mystery Train (Dec 15, 2016)

What a cluster*#%k.


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## soccerchaffeur (Dec 15, 2016)

timbuck said:


> Which coaches / teams went to CDA Orange?


Pretty sure all the Yorba Linda teams.  I never stepped foot in Yorba Linda all season...except when we played Chelsea.


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## soccerchaffeur (Dec 15, 2016)

lancer said:


> None of the coaches quit.  They moved to lit fields that belong to another CDA affiliate.
> 
> Furthermore, most of YL  CDA slammers never were able to play or practice in yorba linda as promised.  A few teams got space at yorba linda HS, but  the closest my kids' teams got was placentia and that was because they were playing a Pats team that actually secured space in their cities.  Our practice field had no lights.  The DOC brought in portable lights but we got kicked out because our club fees were not being used pay the private school for use of their field


And what happened to fitness camp and all that golf tournament money?


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## LadiesMan217 (Dec 15, 2016)

Coaches quit, no coaches quit. CDA OC, Slammers FC, no transition until after state cup. Sheet there is so much conflicting information here. Does anyone know what is happening? LOL


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## Frank (Dec 15, 2016)

Daniel Miller said:


> Then the person who took the funds better refund every penny funds to the parents who paid in.  He or she could be in a lot of legal trouble soon.


Probably need to get the Carmago's involved.  Since the team is still CDA they should have a ton of influence on this and can support the team


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## jrcaesar (Dec 15, 2016)

lancer said:


> None of the coaches quit. They moved to lit fields that belong to another CDA affiliate.


That doesn't make sense. If they are practicing with another CDA affiliate, then that's another club's insurance situation, etc. Real world example: It's like leaving one Allstate office for some other Allstate office - different LLC, different payroll, etc. 

So, yes, sounds like the coaches quit your club.


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## timbuck (Dec 15, 2016)

I don't know the coaches nor do I know their insight on these issues.  But, my guess is that they aren't MBA-level business people.
"We aren't quitting, we are just moving to a field with lights.  CDA is CDA." -- sounds like something someone would say that just wants to coach soccer and is only thinking about soccer and what's best for the kids (And rightfully so).  But-  they aren't considering the business aspect of this.  CDA isn't CDA for every organization.  It's like if someone wanted to take a team from OC Strikers or MV Strikers -  They might be able to work out some sort of "deal" to make it happen without too much trouble, but you can't just take your ball and move without discussing the details.
I hope this works out for the kids and their families, but this sounds like it's going to get messy for a while.  
If any parents on the team are attorneys, it sounds like a good time for them to get their kid a free spot for life on one of these teams.


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## Chicharito (Dec 15, 2016)

The lesson learned should be "Do not set up a team account under the club's corporate account".  If this is indeed a separate bucket the club should not have any objection to it being an independent account. 

My thought on the legality of this mess.  Who cares Slammers need to protect its brand. It is one things to have one or two families up in arms, it is a whole different thing to have one or two teams up in arms, but this mess involves lots of teams, coaches, and families plus alot of money.  At an average of $6k a team over 16 players that $375/player.  If this are team funds and the club can not prove otherwise it is in your face stealing.  I do not know this Patterson fellow but wow he does not sound like a person I want in my circle.


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## jose (Dec 15, 2016)

Frank said:


> So if I get this right as it is not clear; teams left CDA to Slammers and CDA kept their money.  if that is right I would say that is likely standard operating.  If a team leaves to another club the funds they leave behind are gone and they should have spent it all before they left.  Right or wrong I believe that is the general way it works. I have experienced this and before the team left we signed up for every tourney we could in advance to ensure our funds at the departing club were close to nil


divide the money up and give it back to the families. It is theirs


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## HBE (Dec 15, 2016)

Sounds like a breach in contract, I suggest getting an attorney.  A few years back my buddy was at Yellow South Soccer Club and his coach left Yellow South to form Red South Soccer club with two teams.   Both teams followed coach, coach decides to leave Red South back to Yellow South.  My Buddy was under contract with Red South and paid his dues in full. My buddy follows coach back to Yellow South.  Well,  Red South would not refund him his Soccer fees.  He( my Buddy) hires an attorney and gets his Soccer fee's back in full.  Keep in mind this happened between Spring- Summer before league play.  Good Luck


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## Sped (Dec 15, 2016)

Lost in all of this is that many of you seem to live in/near Yorba Linda.  Haha.


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## Chicharito (Dec 16, 2016)

So who gets the joy of running the Rockstar Tournament? CDA Slammers or Slammers FC


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## Chicharito (Dec 16, 2016)

Chicharito said:


> So who gets the joy of running the Rockstar Tournament? CDA Slammers or Slammers FC


Maybe I should ask who gets the money? O who's watching Patterson?


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## lancer (Dec 16, 2016)

Chicharito said:


> So who gets the joy of running the Rockstar Tournament? CDA Slammers or Slammers FC


All the parents had to sign up for duty before they lost their money.


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## Chicharito (Dec 16, 2016)

lancer said:


> All the parents had to sign up for duty before they lost their money.


I doubt anyone will volunteer if this is not resolved.  Is CDA Tustin still running Rockstar?  What happens to the teams that were suppose to play for free but left to CDA OC?


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## MWN (Dec 17, 2016)

For the heck of it, I spent a few minutes trying to understand this post.  Its Saturday and I'm taking a break from drafting a contract.  

Near as I can tell, you have at the top of the food chain the Licensor of the "Slammers" name:

1. Slammers Futbol Club (Newport Beach), a Public Benefit corporation.   Registered with the California charity registry.  Owns slammersfc.org website.  Principal officers Terry Mazura and Diane Levin.  Income of about 1.5M.  Slammers Futbol Club then has/had 3 licensees, which means these 3 licensees were "INDEPENDENT" corporations with separate board of directors, etc.

A. South Slammers FC (Santa Margarita) - South Slammers F.C., Inc., a public benefit corporation (formed on 4/22/2009).  Greg Gluchowski (Chairman).  Gross Revenues of about $400k.

B. CDA Slammers FC (Yorba Linda) - Strikers FC, Inc., a mutual benefit corporation (formed on 5/22/2012) is the corporation and holds a registered d/b/a for CDA Slammers FC (filed 5/2/2014).

C. Irvine Slammers FC (Irvine) - Before November 2016, Irvine Slammers was a licensee and its operating company was F.C. Blades, Inc. formed in July 2000.  Earlier this year FC Blades entered into an agreement with LA Galaxy.  The license agreement with Slammers was terminated.  The Irvine Slammers website now states that Irvine Slammers is being operated directly by Slammers Futbol Club (Slammers FC (Newport Beach) aka the Licensor and owner of the Slammers name).

So as we had it before Irvine Slammers became LA Galaxy OC, the "Slammers" brand consisted of 4 different corporations/entities (aka Clubs):  

1. Slammers Futbol Club (Newport Beach)

2. "CDA Slammers" (Patterson and Camargo), with "branches" (internal business units) in Cerritos, Fullerton, Huntington Beach, Tustin and Whittier.

3. South Slammers FC (Gluchowski / Fawcett)

4. Irvine Slammers (Mazura/Levine/Khoury)

After the Irvine Slammers changed to the LA Galaxy banner, its now 3, with Newport Beach offering to bring in those coaches/teams that don't want to move.

Generally, each team plays under one of these business units (aka Club).  The parents do not sign up with a team, rather the Club.  Now, if a coach with CDA Slammers decides to move to Slammers FC and wants to take his players, he can but the funds sitting with CDA Slammers stay, and CDA Slammers goes and hires a new coach because these are two different organizations. Generally speaking, the funds belong to the Club, not the parents, unless there has been an express agreement to refund those fees/funds if a player leaves (highly unlikely given the transitory nature of coaches in club soccer).

The email from Patterson not-so-clearly states that the coaches of the CDA Slammers Tustin branch and CDA Slammers Yorba Linda branch have resigned from CDA Slammers and are now employed by Irvine Slammers (aka Slammers FC).  

Where things get a little confusing is some of the previous posts are mixing up names.  There is no club "CDA Slammers of Orange" its Slammers FC aka Slammers Futbol Club aka Irvine Slammers.  The "CDA" names belongs to the corporation out of Yorba Linda (Patterson and Camargo).


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## MWN (Dec 17, 2016)

If the coaches at CDA YL/Tustin took CDA funds to Slammers FC, then this would likely be improper.


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## MWN (Dec 17, 2016)

Cal South has addressed these issues in its "Best Practices" document:
http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/ByLaws/Best Practices Guidance on Club and League Financial Disputes 8 23 2011.pdf


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## timbuck (Dec 17, 2016)

MWN said:


> For the heck of it, I spent a few minutes trying to understand this post.  Its Saturday and I'm taking a break from drafting a contract.
> 
> Near as I can tell, you have at the top of the food chain the Licensor of the "Slammers" name:
> 
> ...


I think you just got yourself hired to represent somebody in this case. 

"Did you order the code red?"
"You're g-damn right I did!!!!"


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## Penalty Kicks Stink (Dec 17, 2016)

MWN said:


> If the coaches at CDA YL/Tustin took CDA funds to Slammers FC, then this would likely be improper.


Fantastic Breakdown MWN

If the coaches and teams did resign but are not going to Slammers FC but moving over to CDA Slammers Orange (OJSC) how does that effect the funds in your opinion.


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## MWN (Dec 17, 2016)

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> Fantastic Breakdown MWN
> 
> If the coaches and teams did resign but are not going to Slammers FC but moving over to CDA Slammers Orange (OJSC) how does that effect the funds in your opinion.


Appreciate that I'm just trying to figure out "who's on first" based on some easily accessible public documents.  What I don't have access too is the license agreement between Slammers FC and Strikers FC (aka CDA Slammers).

Based on this letter:  http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0111/6720/OJSCCDASlammersWelcomeLetter.pdf

OCP affiliated with CDA Slammers and is becoming CDA Slammers Orange.  Does this mean that OCP has merged its assets into Strikers FC (CDA) or is there just some sort of partnership or affiliation agreement? What is the agreement between CDA Slammers Orange/OCP and Strikers FC/CDA Slammers?  I don't know, but based on public statements no merger occurred.

Assuming CDA Slammers and CDA Slammers Orange are two separate entities, then the same analysis applies.  What we know is that this does not appear to be the case with regard to the coaches/teams of CDA YL and Tustin, which apparently moved to Slammers FC and not CDA Slammers Orange/OCP.  Based on this FAQ, the two organizations remain separate:  http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0111/6718/OJSCCDASlammersFAQ.pdf

Moreover, given the "affiliate" relationship this implies no merger, rather, two separate entities working together under a common brand (CDA Slammers) with Strikers FC/CDA Slammers in a paternal role.  If this is true, then I can't image funds would not be willingly transferred from the parent organization to the child organization to support the affiliation, but it would be up to Strikers FC/CDA Slammers to transfer those funds to OCP/CDA Slammers Orange.


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## TheyBothPlay (Dec 17, 2016)

MWN said:


> Appreciate that I'm just trying to figure out "who's on first" based on some easily accessible public documents.  What I don't have access too is the license agreement between Slammers FC and Strikers FC (aka CDA Slammers).
> 
> Based on this letter:  http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0111/6720/OJSCCDASlammersWelcomeLetter.pdf
> 
> ...


Very good break down on the relationship between the organizations, but I think the analysis is missing two things.  

First, what happens to club dues if a player or team leaves is a matter of the contract between the parents and the club and not as a general matter of the relationship between the new club and old club  (although I suppose if there is an argument that the new club and the old club are one and the same, then the players' argument could be that the club still has to provide them what the contract says the dues cover (coaching through x date, y number of tourneys, etc., fields for practice, z number of skills sessions, etc.)).

Second, the poster seemed to say that rather than actually being club dues they were contractually required to play the club, the funds at issue here were "team funds".  As a general matter (at least at all the clubs we've been at) "team funds" are different than club dues--"team funds" are generally a  voluntary (in the sense they are not required to be paid to the club by the contract) pool of parents' money collected up front as an administrative convenience rather than paid-as-you-go to cover many of the expenses of the team are not covered by club dues and that the club does not provide for--for example tournaments, coach's per diem where applicable, ref fees for non-league games, etc.  

Without the burden of seeing this club's contract but based on how things work at most of the other clubs we've been at (it's always fun to just assume the facts rather than have to figure them out), I would be  pretty confident in saying any club dues are entitled to be kept by the club while it's probably even more clear that any team funds are the parents' money and not the club's to keep (and I wonder why/how the club even has the team funds).


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## MWN (Dec 18, 2016)

TheyBothPlay said:


> Very good break down on the relationship between the organizations, but I think the analysis is missing two things.
> 
> First, what happens to club dues if a player or team leaves is a matter of the contract between the parents and the club and not as a general matter of the relationship between the new club and old club  (although I suppose if there is an argument that the new club and the old club are one and the same, then the players' argument could be that the club still has to provide them what the contract says the dues cover (coaching through x date, y number of tourneys, etc., fields for practice, z number of skills sessions, etc.)).
> 
> ...


I think Cal South's "Best Practices" document sums it up: 
http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/ByLaws/Best Practices Guidance on Club and League Financial Disputes 8 23 2011.pdf

One of the problems with this thread is that we have a few posters providing potentially conflicting information.  Did the teams that are leaving take funds or were the funds supposedly earmarked for those teams confiscated by the club?

Mr. Patterson's email letter is also potentially problematic to the extent that the club is ejecting players that don't respond.  Patterson writes: "_* Please reply within 48 hours or we will assume you have resigned from the club_."  If anything, it should be the opposite and he should have said "please let us know in the next 48 hours if you intend to resign, otherwise we will assume your player remains committed to the club."

Generally speaking if a single player elected to stay with the team, then the club has a really good argument that all funds related to the team must remain with the club and are not subject to refund or transfer as those funds were expressly intended to be used by the club for the team ... even if that team has mostly disbanded.  As long as a replacement coach and additional players can be allocated then all is good.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Dec 18, 2016)

I never understood the concept (other than monetary) of these franchises.  CDA Fullerton, YL, Tustin,Orange, etc.   North Orange County has plenty of good talent but too many local clubs that come and go (Corinthians, TFC, .   My kids joined club last year and the amount of drama in club along with money makes me want to go back to rec or just hang in there until they make it to high school.   My advice is look for the more established leagues that have secured fields, plenty of teams, been around for a while, and minimal financial issues over the past 5 years.    I can't think of too many that fit this model (LOL) but I would say AC Brea, Chelsea, and a few others fit this model.  I also think that Fullerton Rangers will bounce back very soon (if not already).


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## Penalty Kicks Stink (Dec 18, 2016)

The only difference between Chelsea and rec is about $1500. If you want something more competitive but don't care about playing top competition or on an ECNL team save your money and play in a Signature league. Same as Tier 3 and will cost you $400 for everything


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## SoccerFan4Life (Dec 18, 2016)

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> The only difference between Chelsea and rec is about $1500. If you want something more competitive but don't care about playing top competition or on an ECNL team save your money and play in a Signature league. Same as Tier 3 and will cost you $400 for everything[/QUO
> 
> To be honest, you can say the same thing about most Flight 3 or Bronze teams.  There's not much of a difference.  We shouldn't have that many club teams in Southern California.  It's a business and I understand but this is why it's frustrating to see that most popular sport in the world become such a profit center.     You could create a business model where Flight 3/ Bronze is just $700 a year.   From there, you can charge more for Flight 2/Flight 1.   Make Flight 2 and above more restrictive where not  all teams can jump to flight 2.
> 
> Most parents just want their kids a place to play competitive soccer year round.  1% of these kids will make it to the Pro's and even then, MLS salaries are only $60k a year.


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## timbuck (Dec 18, 2016)

Here's what I don't get.  All of these backroom deals, coaches jumping ship, making kids sign "contracts" and all of the talk about the "big money" of youth sports.  People are making these crazy decisions over a few thousand dollars here or there.  Not quite pocket change, but people freak out like this is some massive Wall Street scam or like Apple is trying to screw google out of millions of dollars.  
If I'm going to sell out my morals and beliefs while screwing over young athletes and their families, it better be for at least 8 figures.


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## Chicharito (Dec 19, 2016)

Is this the same Steve Patterson that coaches Foothill High School girls soccer?


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## CaliKlines (Dec 19, 2016)

Chicharito said:


> Is this the same Steve Patterson that coaches Foothill High School girls soccer?


Yes


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## jose (Dec 19, 2016)

MWN said:


> If the coaches at CDA YL/Tustin took CDA funds to Slammers FC, then this would likely be improper.


they know what the right thing to do is.....just a matter if they follow their conscious


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## galaxydad (Dec 19, 2016)

Just got wind of this- I know late to the party. CDA team work this way. They have separate club accounts and pay the club a fee and then a fee to SCDSL. The club does not own the money the individual team does even if they store the money in a club account. 

What's interesting to me is that the contract is with CDA Slammers not Slammers FC. I think the parents have a legit legal case to get their funds returned


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## galaxydad (Dec 19, 2016)

What many of the above posts are missing is that the teams were CDA teams BUT the DOC decided to switch to Slammers FC. Many of the coaches are choosing to stay with a CDA affiliate. That is where the legal challenge is solid for the parents.


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 20, 2016)

galaxydad said:


> Just got wind of this- I know late to the party. CDA team work this way. They have separate club accounts and pay the club a fee and then a fee to SCDSL. The club does not own the money the individual team does even if they store the money in a club account.
> 
> What's interesting to me is that the contract is with CDA Slammers not Slammers FC. I think the parents have a legit legal case to get their funds returned


Then how did the Club access the funds if they are separate?  The Club or A representative from the Club would have to be named on the account.


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## Penalty Kicks Stink (Dec 20, 2016)

galaxydad said:


> What many of the above posts are missing is that the teams were CDA teams BUT the DOC decided to switch to Slammers FC. Many of the coaches are choosing to stay with a CDA affiliate. That is where the legal challenge is solid for the parents.


Wasn't the DOC it was the Executive Director giving up his license and moving to Slammers FC


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## Penalty Kicks Stink (Dec 20, 2016)

Kicker4Life said:


> Then how did the Club access the funds if they are separate?  The Club or A representative from the Club would have to be named on the account.


Bingo!


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## Carpediem (Dec 20, 2016)

Kicker4Life said:


> Then how did the Club access the funds if they are separate?  The Club or A representative from the Club would have to be named on the account.


During Our first year in club soccer we belonged to a smaller CSL club.  There, 2 of us parents were asked to go to a specific bank and open a bank account with our 2 names yet under the club umbrella which was a non profit.  We were given a special signed letter from the club giving us permission to do so.   All club, uniform and tournament fees came to us and at specific times we paid the vendors or coach.  The account was therefor under the non profit EIN but had our names on it.   As someone who runs both for profit and non profit businesses I found the whole setup a little weird.    I am very thankful we are now with a club where as a team manager our responsibilities are not attached to collecting club fees. 
In the above circumstance though I can see how one could have gone in and had access to the moneys.  Not sure if legalities but I could see from the bank stand point how the access would have been made.  when we left to a larger club at the end of that year, another parent simply went in and had their name added as the cosigner.  I never had to go in and do anything to be removed from the account which means my name didn't really mean anything compared to the letter and owner of the EIN number.


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## MWN (Dec 20, 2016)

@galaxydad and @Carpediem 

You both raise valid points.  After my analysis (who's on first), I was contacted (PM) and informed of an additional corporation in the mix (CDA Futbol Club).  After digging a little deeper here is what the public documents reveal:

(1) Strikers FC Inc., a mutual benefit corporation (formed in 2012) - Registered Address is 3917 Diamond Hill, Yorba Linda, CA 92886.  CEO: Steven C. Patterson, Secretary: Kory Lynn Patterson, CFO: Danny Ray Patterson, all at 3917 Diamond Hill.  Hereafter, the Patterson corp.

(2) CDA Futbol Club., a mutual benefit corporation (formed in Nov. 2015) - Registered Address is 18501 Parkvalle Ave., Cerritos, CA 90703, CEO: A Oscar Camargo, Secretary: Walter Camargo, and CFO: Pamela Rothwell, all at 18501 Parkvalle Avenue, Cerritos, CA 90703.  Hereafter, the Camargo corp.  The  Bylaws of Camargo corp. vest all power in the 4 Board Members and not the members (3.1 of the Bylaws).  The bylaws also state that at least 49% of the Board must be made up of non-interested persons (i.e. not compensated), including their relatives (there are red flags here because both father and son on are the board and would consititute 50%)

Neither corporation is registered with the California Attorney General's Public Registry of Charitable Corporations because neither corporation "holds funds or assets in trust for charitable purposes."  This means the corporations are primarily operated to benefit the members of the corporation.  This is odd because Camargo Corp. holds itself out as a 501(c)(3) and appears to be recognized by the IRS as a public charity.  Because Camargo Corp. is new, its IRS Form 990 does not appear online yet, that said, it received its IRS ruling in May of 2016 and may now need to register.

Patterson Corp. is older and appears to be the legitimate licensee of the "Slammers FC" name because the "Slammers" name was licensed by Slammers FC to CDA Slammers FC on or about March 17, 2014 (http://cdaslammersfc.totalglobalsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/PRESS-RELEASE-CDA-SLAMMERS.pdf).  That said, it is entirely possible that there was a different corporation in play (don't know) and/or the license agreement was entered into between Slammers FC and a Patterson/Camargo joint venture or partnership.

The biggest problem with all of this is the public websites of the Slammers licensee's are horribly confusing and potentially misleading to the public.  At a minimum, reasonably disclosures are not made and the relationships between the entities are kept secret.  How many corporations are actually being used?  Are disclosures being made to the parents/players?  What is the relationship between CDA Futbol Club and Strikers FC.  Are they holding themselves out as a joint venture/partnership (publicly yes, but publicly they don't disclose anything on their website).

Bottom line, this is a huge mess and the failure to disclose by the organizations gives any parent harmed good cause for a refund and/or transfer of funds held in trust to another club.


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## galaxydad (Dec 20, 2016)

MWN said:


> @galaxydad and @Carpediem
> 
> You both raise valid points.  After my analysis (who's on first), I was contacted (PM) and informed of an additional corporation in the mix (CDA Futbol Club).  After digging a little deeper here is what the public documents reveal:
> 
> ...


Well done and agreed. Lawyer up as a group and get your $ back. Dumb move by Patterson to attempt to hold parents hostage. Will more likely lose more families with the attempt to strong arm them


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## younothat (Dec 20, 2016)

What a mess, the whole mutual benefit corporations & doing business as a non-profit seems like a front for the most part for few to make big $.

Making a killing on youth soccer is what this is really is.  Licensee to make more money without full disclosure and all those named are doing this.

We refer to this as an "imagined reality":   "Calif Development Academy" is just a made up name just like many of the fictitious name used in youth soccer.

If anybody cared to regulate or audit what really goes on in these organizations financially you would see a lot more "Fullerton" like changes IMO.


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## timbuck (Dec 20, 2016)

Will some state or federally run program start to look into these organizations more closely at some point?  I'm sure it's pocket change, but some of the accounting practices and "contracts" that are signed by children/families would surely be pretty "fun" for someone to investigate.  And I do think that most organizations aren't trying to screw people.  But I don't think many of them have done the best job of doing things by the book either.


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## espola (Dec 20, 2016)

I have encountered a wide spectrum of organizations running youth soccer in my 40+ years watching them.  At one end we have the neighborhood or community groups that limit power of their officers and BOD by procedures like open membership (every parent or family with a player), direct elections by the membership of the officers, term limits, and the like.  On the other end are groups run by self-interested boards that have the power to appoint and re-appoint themselves and no time limits on service.  Both can have their strengths and weaknesses depending on the character and personality of the people in charge.  Nomads has been run by members of the same family throughout its existence.  Surf Soccer has a volunteer board but seems to be run by its professional coaching staff, and its most successful venture, Surf Cup, has split off into a professional non-profit run by the same executive and his friends ever since.

There are also a few "representative democracy" organizations, like Presidio League and Cal South, where the "members" are other organizations.  Presidio has a one-club, one-vote rule, and Cal South scales a group's voting power according to the number of registered players.  Presidio BOD manages day-to-day problems and makes all its major decisions in monthly meetings where all members can attend and vote; Cal South has a professional full-time staff which answers to the BOD through monthly meetings with just one general meeting for all members each year.  Again we can see that performance varies with the people elected/selected - Cal South was even taken over by a rogue President for a year not long ago; Presidio's Secretary quit in a dispute over the website and it took over a year to get things back in order.


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## MWN (Dec 20, 2016)

younothat said:


> What a mess, the whole mutual benefit corporations & doing business as a non-profit seems like a front for the most part for few to make big $.
> 
> Making a killing on youth soccer is what this is really is.  Licensee to make more money without full disclosure and all those named are doing this.


That my friend is the business model for "club soccer."  Recreational programs tend to be immune because they tend to operate solely on volunteers.  Club soccer is different.  Its a business forced to adopt the guise of a "non-profit" by the State Associations.  Coaches are paid, Directors of Coaching are paid.  Now, what you get is alot of guys with E and D licenses and a few with A and B licenses wearing track suits and paying their mortgages by dedicating their time to coaching youth soccer players.  Nothing wrong with this per se.  

The problem is many parents are delusional and think Johnny and Becky will get a scholarship by signing with this club or that club.  Clubs take their money from these players that are great Recreational All-Star players, but will never amount to more than making the HS Soccer team.  If the parent has the funds, then more power too them.  No harm and Johnny gets to play soccer at a much higher level than the local Rec program can offer.  The problem is when Clubs take player's money at $1,500 per player or more because a portion is going to support the Academy players who play for free ... but that is another thread.

As @espola points out, there are different models.  The State Organization (Cal South) is fairly transparent. The Leagues (Coast Soccer League, SCDSL, Presidio) are a little less transparent, with some being fairly open (Presidio).  One of the stated reasons for the formation of SCDSL was to have a little more democracy over their situation then when those teams resided in Coast.  The Clubs run the gamut from "Member" control to "Executive Board" control.  The fact that some clubs choose to eliminate "members" altogether is just a big red flag that this club is the private fiefdom of some dude in a tracksuit.  It may be the best club around or not, depends on the temperament of the dude in the tracksuit.  Sometimes having a benevolent dictator is a good thing, especially if the inmates can't be trusted to run the asylum.   The fact of the matter is that those clubs that excel at a high level tend to eliminate "parent" control of the organization and are often less transparent.

As all of these club tend to be "non-profit" per Cal South rules, anybody can look up their IRS Form 990's by doing some simple google searches.  Put your club's EIN number and 990 into google and viola, the full financials and other disclosures are there for the reading.  Many parents reaction is "Holy $h!t, our DOC is making $155k?"

You can also find information on the California Registry of Charitable Trusts hosted by the AG's office.


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## soloyosh (Dec 20, 2016)

A couple things...

I like track suits, but I don't get paid to coach soccer.  It is hard for me to fathom "paid" coaches in my area.

When our team left our last club and joined our new club, the old club sent us a check for what was in our account.  Of course, the split was amicable as logistically, for what we wanted to do the following season, it made sense for us to work through someone else.

Moral: Money screws everything up unless everyone is really nice (Canadian?).


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## espola (Dec 20, 2016)

MWN said:


> @galaxydad and @Carpediem
> 
> You both raise valid points.  After my analysis (who's on first), I was contacted (PM) and informed of an additional corporation in the mix (CDA Futbol Club).  After digging a little deeper here is what the public documents reveal:
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say that Cal South is all that transparent.  Almost every month's Board minutes includes items like "see written report" or a portion conducted in Executive Session, with only the time expended noted.  I have recommended to the only Board member I know that the "written reports" be available on the website and that at least a general statement about the actions undertaken in the Executive Sessions be included, such as "conference with attorney about pending litigation".  Back when I was our club's rep to the annual meeting, the most controversial item on the agenda concerned restructuring the PAD Committee and its operations.  The proposal passed, but neither side had much to say about what prompted the motion except that they apparently didn't like each other.


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## Wez (Dec 20, 2016)

Team funds should have nothing to do with the club.  If they do, the club is trying to exert too much control.  Clubs should stick to the important stuff and let the parents workout expenses for their teams.


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## Frank (Dec 20, 2016)

Wez said:


> Team funds should have nothing to do with the club.  If they do, the club is trying to exert too much control.  Clubs should stick to the important stuff and let the parents workout expenses for their teams.


The reason it is not left to the parents on their own that inevitably money disappears or isn't accounted for well enough. Not all teams but you can expect that someone will start using team funds for personal use if not tracked tightly or centralized within the club.  Right or wrong The Club believes it can help this process.


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## zebrafish (Dec 20, 2016)

So Tim Woodcock in 2015 made about $250,000 as head of FC Blades dba Irvine Slammers FC db(now)a LA Galaxy OC

http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/330/330918223/330918223_201504_990.pdf?_ga=1.49071910.1002985550.1482299538

Wow. Cha-ching.


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## Wez (Dec 21, 2016)

Frank said:


> The reason it is not left to the parents on their own that inevitably money disappears or isn't accounted for well enough. Not all teams but you can expect that someone will start using team funds for personal use if not tracked tightly or centralized within the club.  Right or wrong The Club believes it can help this process.


As opposed to the club itself misusing team funds?  Please, parents are adults who can balance their own checkbooks, they don't require an overzealous club to control the funds they choose to allocate to their kids.


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## younothat (Dec 21, 2016)

zebrafish said:


> So Tim Woodcock in 2015 made about $250,000 as head of FC Blades dba Irvine Slammers FC db(now)a LA Galaxy OC
> 
> http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/330/330918223/330918223_201504_990.pdf?_ga=1.49071910.1002985550.1482299538
> 
> Wow. Cha-ching.


When these charlatans make more than the vice president of the united states on youth soccer you know have a problem


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## espola (Dec 21, 2016)

younothat said:


> When these charlatans make more than the vice president of the united states on youth soccer you know have a problem


According to the 990, the club's business was over $2 million that year, and ended with over $1 million in the bank, so they can afford it.  If I were worried about that club, I would want to know who approved the pay and why.


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## timbuck (Dec 21, 2016)

It's a lot of money when you put it in the context of "youth soccer". 
But she you are talking about hundreds (maybe thousands) of kids and families and $2 million in revenue, I think you need to pay the person in charge a decent amount. 
I'm sure he puts in more hours for this soccer club than I do in corporate America.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Dec 21, 2016)

It's supply and demand. Parents create this problem by moving the kids from one team to another for many reasons (coaching, playing time, exposure, etc).   Clubs will continue to take on kids regardless of their skill level as long as they are willing to pay $1,500 -$2,000 per child. 
Eventually something will break or a new type of program will be developed to decrease the number of clubs and improve the quality and competitives at the recreational level.


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## jsmaxwell (Dec 21, 2016)

This is interesting. It worth noting, just in case MWN doesn't know, that the CDA/Camargo Club was under the Strikers brand for the club year that included the Fall 13 season. I think that agreement only lasted for 1 year? Prior to that it was SoCal Infinity. I mention that because of the presence and timing of the Strikers FC/Patterson Corp. listed below. Just wondering if that used to be a Camargo Corp that was transferred at some point since Camargo/Patterson have been working together.

Having experienced a situation where our coach made arrangement to move to another club after state cup, club found out and fired him immediately, I would have advised the teams to just play out state cup at that club with whatever coach they provided or back out of state cup entirely.  Ask the club to refund all team specific monies by at the end of the club year. Then play the following year with whatever/club coach you want. Trying to move a team out of a club in December is rarely going to be accepted by the club, regardless of coaches, DOC or other employees leaving.  Oh, and don't ever store team specific money in a club controlled account. The manager can handle it, and there is plenty of cheap software to help, and there is no need to keep hundreds of dollars per player on account. Last, never pay club fees until they are absolutely due.



MWN said:


> @galaxydad and @Carpediem
> 
> You both raise valid points.  After my analysis (who's on first), I was contacted (PM) and informed of an additional corporation in the mix (CDA Futbol Club).  After digging a little deeper here is what the public documents reveal:
> 
> ...


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## Chicharito (Dec 21, 2016)

When this guys are showing incomes that average more than the average college graduate it seems unrealistic.  But as business owners showing a $250k incomes is not that unrealistic.  So personally I do not have a problem with the amount of money this guys are paying themselves.  I believe that as a consumer I need to consider the return on my money.  Play for x team for $2200 plus two fundraisers and uniforms, city fields, average team, average coach etc or Play for y team $2800 turf fields practice rain or shine, add futsal, add skills, agility and quickness training more tournaments etc the return is obvious.   Plus in my community if my kids are not playing tier 1 at a high level forget about making the high school team (not even thinking about college).   Just worried about giving my kids a fair opportunity.  I could also look at the cost of dance, cheer, gymnastics, or hockey where parent are spending $10k/year. 

My problem starts when clubs that net over $2M and roll over $1M ask for volunteers during tournaments to increase their bottom line.  Or when the coach you play for decides to leave because he is not earning a living, his job does not include benefits.  The DOC that decides to coach more than two teams then does not show up to  games or cancels practices due to conflicts.   We all have to draw the line somewhere I think having this information helps us figure out where we need to draw it.


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## sdb (Dec 21, 2016)

MWN said:


> @galaxydad and @Carpediem
> 
> Neither corporation is registered with the California Attorney General's Public Registry of Charitable Corporations because neither corporation "holds funds or assets in trust for charitable purposes."  This means the corporations are primarily operated to benefit the members of the corporation.  This is odd because Camargo Corp. holds itself out as a 501(c)(3) and appears to be recognized by the IRS as a public charity.  Because Camargo Corp. is new, its IRS Form 990 does not appear online yet, that said, it received its IRS ruling in May of 2016 and may now need to register.


What enables clubs to operate as 501(c)(3) entities? It seems like many do based on their descriptions or charter statements. And if they are non-profits, why aren't our club fees considered donations? Is it because we are members?


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## espola (Dec 21, 2016)

sdb said:


> What enables clubs to operate as 501(c)(3) entities? It seems like many do based on their descriptions or charter statements. And if they are non-profits, why aren't our club fees considered donations? Is it because we are members?


You are paying dues for program services.  Since you receive something for your dues, it is not a donation.  Of course, you can always make additional "donations", and try to claim them as tax deductions.

Our club president for a while was a lawyer and CPA.  I asked him, since I was a board member, if I could deduct the costs of traveling to State Cup to support our club's teams.  He said not if my kid was playing.


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## MWN (Dec 21, 2016)

sdb said:


> What enables clubs to operate as 501(c)(3) entities? It seems like many do based on their descriptions or charter statements. And if they are non-profits, why aren't our club fees considered donations? Is it because we are members?


Having a charitable purposes (teaching youth sports) is what enables clubs to operate as 501(c)(3) or 501(c)(7) organizations.  Fees and dues that are intended to benefit the member (or child) are not ordinarily deductible because the member is being provided services arising directly from that organization.  If the organization was provided services to your child regardless of whether you donated, its a different analysis.  Now, if you spend your 2k on your player and then spend another 2k on a disadvantaged player (unrelated to you), you could likely deduct the 2k for the disadvantaged player. 

Getting creative, child care is deductible, so if your child was put into an after-school child care program that happened to focus on athletic training then it could be deductible.

Consult with your accountant, but expect an answer of "No" because you/your child is a direct recipient of the services and paying those dues and fees are directly tied to the services provided.


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## MWN (Dec 21, 2016)

espola said:


> You are paying dues for program services.  Since you receive something for your dues, it is not a donation.  Of course, you can always make additional "donations", and try to claim them as tax deductions.
> 
> Our club president for a while was a lawyer and CPA.  I asked him, since I was a board member, if I could deduct the costs of traveling to State Cup to support our club's teams.  He said not if my kid was playing.


You answered while I was typing.  Agree.


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## Chicharito (Dec 22, 2016)

How ironic, the benefits of an affiliation between OJSC and CDA Slammers are the same as those for CDA Slammers joining Slammers FC (Newport): 

Shared vision for the future of youth soccer

Commitment to player development at all levels
Collaboration to enhance and further develop the existing club curriculum
Strengthening of our continual professional coaching through education
Higher level of exposure and support for collegiate bound athletes
Direct Path to ECNL and Academy
Cutting edge resources, professional coaching, structured curriculum, state of the art facilities
This are all great benefit but bottom line is not all coaches/teams will be able to deliver on them regardless of affiliation.


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## Soccer Mom (Feb 7, 2017)

South Slammers FC is an unethical club. If they lose a coach mid-season, they refuse to refund money and will not provide the players with the contractual obligations such as a new coach and the tournaments in the contract. Find a more ethical club.


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