# Average American family of 4 now makes $252,000 a year according to latest GDP per capita numbers. Why USA still complains about China ?



## blam (Apr 21, 2021)

I was just looking up the average GDP per capita today and for the year 2020, the GDP per capita is about $63000.   (Source: https://statisticstimes.com/economy/country/us-gdp-per-capita.php)

This means the average family of 4 now makes about $252,000 ($63000 X 4). I am referring to average American family of 4 from an average state in the USA.

This seems like a lot of money about $21,000 a month in salary for an average family of 4. Surely people in more expensive states like California or New York are making much more.

Why then do people still think "America needs to be made great again" when they are already making so much? Am I missing something?


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## N00B (Apr 21, 2021)

blam said:


> Am I missing something?


Yup... missing everything...all of your posts.

Shame you don’t understand the difference between GDP and income.  May want to start there and pay for your account on this site so that you can delete all of your posts that make you look like an idiot.


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## blam (Apr 21, 2021)

N00B said:


> Yup... missing everything...all of your posts.
> 
> Shame you don’t understand the difference between GDP and income.  May want to start there and pay for your account on this site so that you can delete all of your posts that make you look like an idiot.



actually gdp per capita and income should be pretty close. Unless there is a problem with income distribution.

gdp per capita is roughly the revenue generated per person. That should be roughly the same as that persons income on average unless of course the boss takes all of it and leaves little for the worker.


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## espola (Apr 21, 2021)

blam said:


> actually gdp per capita and income should be pretty close. Unless there is a problem with income distribution.
> 
> gdp per capita is roughly the revenue generated per person. That should be roughly the same as that persons income on average unless of course the boss takes all of it and leaves little for the worker.








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## N00B (Apr 22, 2021)

blam said:


> actually gdp per capita and income should be pretty close. Unless there is a problem with income distribution.
> 
> gdp per capita is roughly the revenue generated per person. That should be roughly the same as that persons income on average unless of course the boss takes all of it and leaves little for the worker.


Not even close.  Start with the definition... I’ll wait for your premium subscription to delete your thread.


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## N00B (Apr 22, 2021)

blam said:


> gdp per capita is roughly the revenue generated per person. That should be roughly the same as that persons income on average unless of course the boss takes all of it and leaves little for the worker.


Definitions, such tricky things.  So finite, so clear, so.. not what you said.


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## N00B (Apr 22, 2021)

blam said:


> actually gdp per capita and income should be pretty close. Unless there is a problem with income distribution.


OK, definition of GDP aside...lol... as you still don’t know what that means, Are you suggesting that there is a better distribution of wealth model based on GDP? Oh wait, that would also still require understanding of GDP...well, try your best anyway.


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## Hüsker Dü (Apr 22, 2021)

$68,703
Median household income was $68,703 in 2019, an increase of 6.8 percent from the 2018 median of $64,324 (Figure 1 and Table A-1). The 2019 real median incomes of family households and nonfamily households increased 7.3 percent and 6.2 percent from their respective 2018 estimates (Figure 1 and Table A-1).Sep 15, 2020
https://www.census.gov › demo
Income and Poverty in the United States: 2019 - Census Bureau

Just saying . . .


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## blam (Apr 22, 2021)

Consider a simplified model of a 3 person only economy for simplicity of explanation. 1 boss, 2 workers. The workers each produces $10 worth of gadgets which they give to the boss who exports them overseas.

How much is the GDP in this fictitious 3 person economy?
Ans: 2 workers made $10 worth of gadget, so it is $10 + $10 = $20. (GDP)

How much is the GDP per capita?
GDP per capita = GDP/population = $20/(1 boss + 2 workers) = $6.67 (GDP per capita).

Suppose that the boss took the proceeds of the sale and divides them equally amongst themselves.

How much does each person gets?
Ans: $20/3 = $6.67 (Average Income per Person).

What is the median income?
Ans: $6.67.

WOW! GDP per capita = Median Income per Person.



Now suppose the boss decides to keep most of the proceeds to himself and only pays his worker $1. So the boss keeps $18, pays each worker $1 from the $20 proceed (a case where income inequality is extreme).

How much does each person gets?
Answer; Boss gets $18, worker 1 gets $1, worker 2 gets $1.

What is the median income?
Answer: We rank the income and pick the middle, the median income is now $1.

Wow! GDP per capita is drastically different from median income per person!




That GDP number does not lie. The United States is doing VERY WELL economically. It is just a question whether you are getting a piece of the cake or not.


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## notintheface (Apr 22, 2021)

blam said:


> This means the average family of 4 now makes about $252,000 ($63000 X 4). I am referring to average American family of 4 from an average state in the USA.


Per capita doesn't mean the kids, bud.


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## N00B (Apr 22, 2021)

blam said:


> Consider a simplified model of a 3 person only economy for simplicity of explanation. 1 boss, 2 workers. The workers each produces $10 worth of gadgets which they give to the boss who exports them overseas.
> 
> How much is the GDP in this fictitious 3 person economy?
> Ans: 2 workers made $10 worth of gadget, so it is $10 + $10 = $20. (GDP)
> ...


Again, Not even close.

Please take espola’s advice and learn what you’re talking about before making continuous false statements as a result of your uneducated position. Also take my advice and stop making yourself look bad by continuing to discuss topics you don’t understand.

I’m not going to waste my time educating you, if you can’t understand the definition of GDP on your own.  GDP includes government spending (anyone recall trillions of that recently) productivity of investments (the stock market is a small part of those returns) amongst other factors.

Care to discuss the impact of currency manipulation in China and their government spending as relates to their GDP?  Wait, you’d still need to understand GDP first.


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## blam (Apr 23, 2021)

notintheface said:


> Per capita doesn't mean the kids, bud.


Per capita is per person, doesnt include the kids?


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## blam (Apr 23, 2021)

N00B said:


> GDP includes government spending (anyone recall trillions of that recently) productivity of investments (the stock market is a small part of those returns) amongst other factors.


Yes! Income from investments is also included in the computation. There are 3 ways to compute the GDP. Either way you should get the same answer.

I didnt exclude investment when when I said the median income of a family of 4, Investments is of course income.

That GDP per capita number is an actual benefit that flowed into the USA, no denying that unless you are a conspiracy theorist. Now, if most people's income is close to that, that means the benefits are distributed equally.

If you disagree with me that the gdp per capita number is close to the average income per person, then you are concluding that income distribution is highly unequal. Thank you. Exactly my point. Somewhere out there, despite the benefits proven by the GDP numbers, a big part of it is not showing up as your income. Example: investments. Somewhere out there is a corporation that grew a lot in the past 20 years bought a new piece of building as investment. It bought a new real estate. You on the other hand didnt buy a second/third house. that's how that GDP number didn't reflect in your income and why you disagree.

Trade with China is only harmful to the USA on aggregate  if it causes the GDP to deteriorate.  Data does not show that. It is only harmful to the workers who were left out, or workers whose wages are suppressed due to more options to outsource their jobs. Wall street, owners who outsourced their manufacturing to China, they made a lot of money doing trade with China, as the GDP numbers shows and proves, so much that a family of 4 now contributes $252,000 to the economy on average.


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## blam (Apr 23, 2021)

N00B said:


> Please take espola’s advice and learn what you’re talking about before making continuous false statements


Espola didn't understand my sarcasm.


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## Desert Hound (Apr 23, 2021)

N00B said:


> OK, definition of GDP aside...lol... as you still don’t know what that means, Are you suggesting that there is a better distribution of wealth model based on GDP? Oh wait, that would also still require understanding of GDP...well, try your best anyway.


He has been taking socialism classes. 

The problem with that is economically if you spotted them the C and the T, they still can't spell CAT.


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## espola (Apr 23, 2021)

blam said:


> Yes! Income from investments is also included in the computation. There are 3 ways to compute the GDP. Either way you should get the same answer.
> 
> I didnt exclude investment when when I said the median income of a family of 4, Investments is of course income.
> 
> ...








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## espola (Apr 23, 2021)

blam said:


> Espola didn't understand my sarcasm.


If you intended sarcasm, and wanted people to understand it that way, you should have used the sarcasm font.


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## N00B (Apr 23, 2021)

blam said:


> Yes! Income from investments is also included in the computation. There are 3 ways to compute the GDP. Either way you should get the same answer.
> 
> I didnt exclude investment when when I said the median income of a family of 4, Investments is of course income.
> 
> ...


And you’re wrong again, because you don’t understand what you are talking about... or worse, you think you comprehend.

So you are either intentionally obtuse due to your ‘agenda’ or incapable of using the internet you are currently on to educate yourself.


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## blam (Apr 23, 2021)

N00B said:


> And you’re wrong again, because you don’t understand what you are talking about... or worse, you think you comprehend.



Denial, denial, denial.

Btw, you should also look the GDP of the USA in the past 20 years. If trade with China had been harmful, where is the dent in GDP of the USA? From the looks of it, the US economy has been going really strong for the past 20 years. Only a small blip due to the 2007 financial crisis. Ignoring that, it looks almost like it is exponentially growing faster and faster. The curve is curving upwards, not a linear growth but a slight exponential growth. America is Great already!


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## N00B (Apr 23, 2021)

blam said:


> Denial, denial, denial.
> 
> Btw, you should also look the GDP of the USA in the past 20 years. If trade with China had been harmful, where is the dent in GDP of the USA?


Sad !

Why do you keep making a fool of yourself?!

None of your ‘conclusions’ are remotely accurate as you don’t have a clue of what GDP is, what it is a measure of, or what impacts it.

I am certainly a denier of your ability to hold a cogent discussion on this topic.


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## blam (Apr 24, 2021)

N00B said:


> None of your ‘conclusions’ are remotely accurate as you don’t have a clue of what GDP is, what it is a measure of, or what impacts it.



Actually, you are the one who does not know what is the meaning of GDP per capita. You probably think there is only 1 way to compute it.


Just so you know, there is nothing wrong with my original title. The average family of 4 is making GDP/capita X 4 = $252,000 a year    - theoretically.
 GDP / capita is the income per capita.

As an economist on quora also pointed out: https://www.quora.com/Are-income-per-capita-and-GDP-per-capita-the-same


*"Are income per capita and GDP per capita the same? 

Essentially, but not literally. Many authors (including this one) use “income per capita” as an everyday synonym for per capita Gross Domestic Product (GDP), based on the fact that all production generates an equal amount of income for someone.

However, from the standpoint of national income and product accounting, a couple of footnotes apply to this point."*



What is outrageous about my title, is the sarcasm. Of course we all know GDP per capita never equals the median income because of the unequal distribution in income. Usually, most of the country's income is heavily tilted towards the richest people. If you are middle class and below, your income should be significantly lower that the average income of the country (GDP per capita).

Ah! you also couldn't point to the damage that China did to the USA GDP over the past 20 years on the graph. Because there is none. The US had gained on aggregate from this trade.

Yes, manufacturing in the USA has been heavily damaged in the past 20 years. However, this had been offset by gains made through companies eg. Apple that outsources their manufacturing overseas to places like China. The profits that such companies made more than offset the losses that American manufacturing suffered. US financial sector also benefited a lot. Average Wall Street bonuses are enough to purchase for a new Lamborghini. The US just has a problem on how to share this benefit equally.


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## N00B (Apr 24, 2021)

blam said:


> Actually, you are the one who does not know what is the meaning of GDP per capita. You probably think there is only 1 way to compute it.
> 
> 
> Just so you know, there is nothing wrong with my original title. The average family of 4 is making GDP/capita X 4 = $252,000 a year    - theoretically.
> ...


Nope, try again.  Maybe you’ll get it right eventually... but it won’t suggest what you claim.


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## N00B (Apr 24, 2021)

It’s fun watching @blam wallow through ignorance.


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## N00B (Apr 24, 2021)

Trade with China is insignificant for US GDP.  I never claimed it hurt the US.... of course the converse is true.  China needs US consumption to sustain its economic model.

Please enlighten me as to the benefits of currency manipulation.  You seem to think you understand economics.


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## notintheface (Apr 24, 2021)

blam said:


> The average family of 4 is making GDP/capita X 4


Per capita still doesn't mean the kids, bud.


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## N00B (Apr 24, 2021)

blam said:


> Actually, you are the one who does not know what is the meaning of GDP per capita. You probably think there is only 1 way to compute it.
> 
> 
> Just so you know, there is nothing wrong with my original title. The average family of 4 is making GDP/capita X 4 = $252,000 a year    - theoretically.
> ...


Sorry, is this sarcastic? Just want to be clear how much to ignore you.


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## blam (Apr 26, 2021)

N00B said:


> Trade with China is insignificant for US GDP. I never claimed it hurt the US.... of course the converse is true.


Yo...finish that sentence. Don't be shy....Trade with China never hurt the US economy. In fact it helped it tremendously when you look at the GDP growth of the USA in the past 20 years.  

The only thing it hurt is US manufacturing but US economy at the same time transitioned to higher end production like design and finance services to offset this loss. That's also a good thing that China has helped the US make this transition. And these higher end jobs bring more income to people and greater profit margins to corporations. Why are you complaining if not for political gain? What the US had done badly is its failure to retrain the people who used to work in manufacturing into higher end jobs. So Trump is using these people in the industrial rust belts to gain political support. . In terms of aggregate gain, the US has gained a lot overall and on aggregate from trade with China. Stop crying like the victim.

The only entity in the world that labels China a currency manipulator is the US Treasury and this is of course done for political reasons. Do you even know the definition of Currency manipulator? The IMF sure didn't think China is a currency manipulator.  (https://sputniknews.com/world/201908101076518342-imf-stands-by-yuan-as-us-labels-china-currency-manipulator/)

Once you know the definition of currency manipulator, if you are smart then you will see that the exchange rate is quite fairly valued. In fact, it would be disadvantageous to undervalue one's exchange rate. Are you happy when the US dollar falls with respect to the Mexican Peso?


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## blam (Apr 26, 2021)

notintheface said:


> Per capita still doesn't mean the kids, bud.


Please look up the definition of per capita. If GDP is $100, and you got 4 people in your population 2 working adults and 2 children, your GDP per capita is $100/4 = $25.  It includes kids.


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## N00B (Apr 26, 2021)

Who are you even talking to @blam?  Rant away, I’m happy to see your audience continue to shrink as you are ignored.


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## blam (Apr 29, 2021)

N00B said:


> Who are you even talking to @blam? Rant away, I’m happy to see your audience continue to shrink as you are ignored.


I can always rely on you.


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## Bruddah IZ (May 1, 2021)

blam said:


> Why then do people still think "America needs to be made great again" when they are already making so much? Am I missing something?


Yes.  Inflation of the money supply.  Ask China how they feel about that when they are holding roughly 1.7 trillion in U.S. Bonds.


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## blam (May 4, 2021)

Bruddah IZ said:


> Yes. Inflation of the money supply. Ask China how they feel about that when they are holding roughly 1.7 trillion in U.S. Bonds.


I believe it is not very wise for China to hold on to so much US bonds. Unlike other countries, the US could inflate its way out of debt. For example, US could repay these debts just by printing more money. Then China will hang on to worthless papers.  US could then have an alternate currency to be used locally. 

As oppose to other countries who borrow in US Dollars, these countries could not print money to repay their debt as they borrow in loans denominated in US dollars.

So if I ask China, I think Chinas answer is they are so nervous hanging on to so much US bonds.


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## espola (May 4, 2021)

blam said:


> I believe it is not very wise for China to hold on to so much US bonds. Unlike other countries, the US could inflate its way out of debt. For example, US could repay these debts just by printing more money. Then China will hang on to worthless papers.  US could then have an alternate currency to be used locally.
> 
> As oppose to other countries who borrow in US Dollars, these countries could not print money to repay their debt as they borrow in loans denominated in US dollars.
> 
> So if I ask China, I think Chinas answer is they are so nervous hanging on to so much US bonds.


Maybe you could get Izzy to help you.  He knows all about finance and percentages and stuff.


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## Bruddah IZ (May 4, 2021)

espola said:


> Maybe you could get Izzy to help you.  He knows all about finance and percentages and stuff.


He'll do fine.  You'de rather wallow in your knowledge of amortized loans for the rest of your life.


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