# Torn ACL



## Surf Zombie (Oct 13, 2021)

My 2007 9th grader just tore her ACL in a game. Essentially half way through her HS season. Cleared a ball with her right foot and as she was bringing it back down slipped on the wet turf and her knee twisted awkwardly.

We are In the process of scheduling surgery. Will miss the rest of her HS season and probably all (most?) of her ECNL season which is early December-late May.

Anyone else been through it and have any tips on the recovery process? She made it from U8 until now without ever being injured, so it’s going to be a big adjustment I’m sure.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 13, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> My 2007 9th grader just tore her ACL in a game. Essentially half way through her HS season. Cleared a ball with her right foot and as she was bringing it back down slipped on the wet turf and her knee twisted awkwardly.
> 
> We are In the process of scheduling surgery. Will miss the rest of her HS season and probably all (most?) of her ECNL season which is early December-late May.
> 
> Anyone else been through it and have any tips on the recovery process? She made it from U8 until now without ever being injured, so it’s going to be a big adjustment I’m sure.


Post surgery and after a full recovery she should never stop managing, developing  and maintaining the muscle group around her knees. Communication from her on the status of her knee or any other injuries should be consistent and ongoing.


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## crush (Oct 13, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> My 2007 9th grader just tore her ACL in a game. Essentially half way through her HS season. Cleared a ball with her right foot and as she was bringing it back down slipped on the wet turf and her knee twisted awkwardly.
> 
> We are In the process of scheduling surgery. Will miss the rest of her HS season and probably all (most?) of her ECNL season which is early December-late May.
> 
> Anyone else been through it and have any tips on the recovery process? She made it from U8 until now without ever being injured, so it’s going to be a big adjustment I’m sure.


First off, super sorry to hear that kind of news for any player.  I tore my ACL and my only advice is to build muscle quickly and don;t flake out on rehab. True fact: The Freshman QB at Notre Dame, Tyler Buchner had a moment this past Saturday no Freshman ever had.  Threw a TD and ran one in for a TD.  He tore his ACL as a Sophomore in HS during first game of the season.  Alex Morgan worked hard.  She can do it


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## Tyler Durden (Oct 13, 2021)

Take the rehab very seriously.  There are rehab centers that can provide digital metrics to see where she is at in her rehab.  And take it slow when returning, it will take time to build the confidence to go in for a tackle or put your leg/knee in a vulnerable situation.  Try to minimize the tournament play situations where you are playing 4 games over a 2 day period.


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## VegasParent (Oct 13, 2021)

Going through this now with my 10th grade DD. Exactly 1 month post surgery and in the 3rd week of physical therapy. They have her doing blood flow restriction training now. First few days after surgery were rough. Do what you can to keep her connected with her team when she can. Our coach had other players from the club who had been through this reach out to encourage her.


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## Footy30 (Oct 13, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> My 2007 9th grader just tore her ACL in a game. Essentially half way through her HS season. Cleared a ball with her right foot and as she was bringing it back down slipped on the wet turf and her knee twisted awkwardly.
> 
> We are In the process of scheduling surgery. Will miss the rest of her HS season and probably all (most?) of her ECNL season which is early December-late May.
> 
> Anyone else been through it and have any tips on the recovery process? She made it from U8 until now without ever being injured, so it’s going to be a big adjustment I’m sure.


So sorry to hear this, I went through an injury with my kid (not ACL) but an injury that was enough to sit out almost all ECNL season.  One thing to remember is not only will she be rehabbing her injury but she needs to also work through the mental anguish and emotional roller coaster of dealing with an injury. It can be tough on them mentally while they recover.... I'm sure she has a great support system with you and your family but just a friendly reminder from someone who went through it with their kid.


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## Surf Zombie (Oct 13, 2021)

Thanks for the kind words. Both her HS & club coach have been awesome and she has two great sets of teammates. Her club coach assured her that even if she misses the whole year her roster spot is secure.

I’m hoping she can just keep attending practices and games to watch and stay connected to her teammates and not get stuck at home. One of her HS teammates is 6 months into a torn ACL recovery and she attends every practice & game and just helps out the coaches.


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## Surf Zombie (Oct 13, 2021)

VegasParent said:


> Going through this now with my 10th grade DD. Exactly 1 month post surgery and in the 3rd week of physical therapy. They have her doing blood flow restriction training now. First few days after surgery were rough. Do what you can to keep her connected with her team when she can. Our coach had other players from the club who had been through this reach out to encourage her.


Best of luck to your DD and hopefully she’ll have a full & complete recovery.


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## VegasParent (Oct 13, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> Thanks for the kind words. Both her HS & club coach have been awesome and she has two great sets of teammates. Her club coach assured her that even if she misses the whole year her roster spot is secure.
> 
> I’m hoping she can just keep attending practices and games to watch and stay connected to her teammates and not get stuck at home. One of her HS teammates is 6 months into a torn ACL recovery and she attends every practice & game and just helps out the coaches.


My kid goes to at least one practice a week and has been to the local games. Once she can ditch the crutches (hopefully next Friday when she goes to her six week appointment) she will travel with the team.


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## VegasParent (Oct 13, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> Best of luck to your DD and hopefully she’ll have a full & complete recovery.


Thanks same to your DD.


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## SoccerLocker (Oct 13, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Post surgery and after a full recovery she should never stop managing, developing  and maintaining the muscle group around her knees. Communication from her on the status of her knee or any other injuries should be consistent and ongoing.


THIS ... 1000x this.  It's the 2nd most common injury for young women soccer players and not addressed enough by clubs or schools, IMO.  LA84 did extensive work on how to strengthen the muscle groups around the ACL: PEP Program


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 13, 2021)

SoccerLocker said:


> THIS ... 1000x this.  It's the 2nd most common injury for young women soccer players and not addressed enough by clubs or schools, IMO.  LA84 did extensive work on how to strengthen the muscle groups around the ACL: PEP Program


Yup. That’s why I mentioned it.


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## Gosocal (Oct 14, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> My 2007 9th grader just tore her ACL in a game. Essentially half way through her HS season. Cleared a ball with her right foot and as she was bringing it back down slipped on the wet turf and her knee twisted awkwardly.
> 
> We are In the process of scheduling surgery. Will miss the rest of her HS season and probably all (most?) of her ECNL season which is early December-late May.
> 
> Anyone else been through it and have any tips on the recovery process? She made it from U8 until now without ever being injured, so it’s going to be a big adjustment I’m sure.


05 DD is 5 months post op ACL/meniscus. Pre hab is crucial to recovery. Supplement health insurance PT with sports specific PT. Clean diet, rest and vitamins. A bit ahead of strength thresholds but patience is key. Time flys by and u will be surprised how fast recovery is if you are disciplined. Best of luck to your DD.


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## dk_b (Oct 14, 2021)

I read these with a consistent “ugh”.  I dropped off this board b/c of discussion last spring about injury risk with a condensed HS (and in some cases, combined HS and club) season.  It was my great worry and there were a number of dismissive (and even hostile) folks that it was no longer worth the negative space that the discussion was occupying.  And lo and behold, despite doing a lot work to avoid overuse and be prepared, my identical twins (06Gs) tore their ACLs w/in 8 weeks of each other last spring (surgeries were 5+ weeks apart). We have a sensational orthopedist up here and we believe they are getting great care and great PT but it f’in sucks for them (and for us as we see them with the initial disappointment, the first post-op days and the grind of working their way back).  They are comforted by a number of high level athletes whom we know (current/former college and pro) who have reached out to them to reassure and, obviously, it isn’t the “career-ender” that it often was when many of us were teens in the 80s or before.

I saw my concerns play out in real time and, reading this thread, I see that it was not limited to my extended bubble. I am not surprised. There are always a lot of variables that go into any specific injury but ask any ortho practice about the last 6+ months and they will almost certainly confirm that their rates of ACL injuries among teen girl soccer players went up from an already high rate.

Good luck to all of your kids who are in the various stages of the injury (pre-op, post-op, rehab, return to play).  I’m rooting for all of them.


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## NorCalUSN (Oct 14, 2021)

My 06 DD, tore her ACL in July.  For us it was a lot of almost mourning and stages of grief. So the mental aspect is not something to dismiss.  I would recommend do some research on the different procedures that can be done to replace the ACL.  Some docs will want to use your daughter's hamstring, some platella, some cadaver.  Do some research on the Ortho docs in your Insurance plan. We "shopped" around up here, and found one in our network that does Ortho for the SF Giants and was well reviewed. Take a look at Yelp, and doctor review sites.  I really would question any doctor that says your daughter will be ready to play in less than 6 months.  Also in same vein research what Rehab places are in your network, the rehab is just as important as you doc if not more so.  Find out how your insurance covers your rehab visits.  Be inquisitive about the procedure your doctor recommends.  My daughter was on the skinny side so our Doc did a combo of Hamstring/Cadaver, also used an internal brace and said he reattached her snapped ACL.  Have to take his word for it.  But my DD just had her 6 week post op and she is doing great but she is also doing a lot of rehab homework in addition to twice weekly visits to the rehab.


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## Mile High Dad (Oct 14, 2021)

So sorry to hear about your DD. Been through this with mine and it sucks. Invest in an ice machine that wraps around the knee. It helped immensely with rehab. Like others have said, PT is sooooo important. Also having a Great coach like that will help with the mental recovery. Also when she is able to be at as many practices and games will keep her mentally engaged, while she goes through physical hell, but she will be driven to return. It is far too common and WHEN she returns, you will have a new appreciation/joy watching her overcome this injury!!! Hang in there, many of us have been through it and we help each other out. Mine is in her last year of Club and will be playing D2 ball and I will cherish every game she gets to play.


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## VegasParent (Oct 14, 2021)

Mile High Dad said:


> So sorry to hear about your DD. Been through this with mine and it sucks. Invest in an ice machine that wraps around the knee. It helped immensely with rehab. Like others have said, PT is sooooo important. Also having a Great coach like that will help with the mental recovery. Also when she is able to be at as many practices and games will keep her mentally engaged, while she goes through physical hell, but she will be driven to return. It is far too common and WHEN she returns, you will have a new appreciation/joy watching her overcome this injury!!! Hang in there, many of us have been through it and we help each other out. Mine is in her last year of Club and will be playing D2 ball and I will cherish every game she gets to play.


Happy to hear your DD is doing well. My kid knows that it's going to be lot of hard work but her biggest worry right now is getting recruited. I'm worried she's going to try and come back too soon. I've discussed this with her doctor, physical therapist, and coaches and they have assured me that she will not get cleared until she is ready.


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## Dubs (Oct 14, 2021)

Sharing my sentiments along with others on this thread.  Very sorry to hear this. Also important to note is getting mobility/flexibility before the surgery.  Have her get on the stationary bike and keep that knee from stiffening before the surgery.  It will help immensely post-op. Best of luck to your DD.  She'll get through it, but definitely pay heed to the comments about taking the rehab very seriously.


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## Mile High Dad (Oct 14, 2021)

VegasParent said:


> Happy to hear your DD is doing well. My kid knows that it's going to be lot of hard work but her biggest worry right now is getting recruited. I'm worried she's going to try and come back too soon. I've discussed this with her doctor, physical therapist, and coaches and they have assured me that she will not get cleared until she is ready.


Our Dr first told us that it would be 9 months before she could return to play. She worked hard and hit all the marks to get cleared but Dr wanted to extend it to 12 months, since she was young (9th grader) and the extra time would be helpful for recovery. We were upset at first but as a Parent really grateful now since she got even stronger upon her return. The recruiters I spoke with weren't concerned about the injury but I know sometimes the timing can make a bad situation even worse. My DD missed out on some good exposure time during rehab, but found a place with a Great PT program and has a career path set. VegasParent, hope your kid recovers first and then finds a place that will bring them joy.


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## Simisoccerfan (Oct 14, 2021)

I feel for you.  As some here know my dd tore her acl/meniscus during her senior year of HS on the day she signed her letter of intent.  This was a long difficult process for her as well as for us her parents.   The recovery process is really what sets apart how people recover.  My dd worked really hard and to our surprise made her college debut in a game against Duke mid season her freshmen year at 6 1/2 months.  So there is really no set timetable for return.  It depends on how the individual heals and the work they put in.   It's 2 1/2 years later and her knee is strong and she never worries about it but as parent's we have never stopped worrying.   Good luck!


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## Surf Zombie (Oct 14, 2021)

Thanks for all the great insight from those of you have been there or are going through it now.  Hope all these girls can stay positive. 

My wife is borrowing an ice machine from a friend and we have two surgical consults set up for next week. I usually complain about living in the Boston area because it it freezing here, but at least there are some great hospital/surgeon choices in the city.


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## Jose has returned (Oct 14, 2021)

So sorry for her situation. Rehab nowadays is really good and she is young she will bounce back.  I hope it all works great for you all


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## gkrent (Oct 15, 2021)

If her ortho offers the PRP therapy option after surgery, do it!!


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## NorCalUSN (Oct 15, 2021)

gkrent said:


> If her ortho offers the PRP therapy option after surgery, do it!!


I forgot about PRP, yeah my dd surgeon used PRP during the surgery (At least he said he did I wasn't in there) I guess I could check he did give us a cdrom of the surgery.  We were also give the ice sleeve machine as well (Think igloo cooler with a pump in the top that circulates ice water to a sleeve attached to you daughter).  We also paid for a machine that basically mechanically help bend her knee for the 5-7 days post surgery. Fortunately my dd didn't have a lot of pain and didn't need to use any meds post surgery.


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## supercell (Oct 21, 2021)

Hate to hear this and wish your player the best of luck. My DD is about 14 months post reconstruction. In my opinion, it's the rehab choices that make all the difference in recovery. Choose wisely and keep at it. Many of the exercises seem boring and like nothing is happening, but it is a process. We were fortunate to have had the benefit of a PT facility with a water treadmill which is super helpful in getting the running mechanics sorted out without loading the joint so much.


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## soccerchaffeur (Nov 5, 2021)

I really needed this thread this morning. My 06G tore her acl & meniscus this past weekend(MRI came back yesterday). She's devastated, we're devastated, lots of emotions....it all sucks. Her coaches & teammates have been awesome. Another coach at her club(who coaches my younger girl)has been beyond supportive...hooking her up with a fantastic doc and helping her get to the front of his appointments. While everyone is trying to be positive/supportive, she's a smart kid and knows the mountain she has to climb. She's a sophomore and knows how important this season was both with the HS team and club team. All my wife and I keep telling her is she can do this...that she'll be stronger than ever when she returns. That her love for the game will only increase. While I'm doing my best to be positive for her, I'll admit I'm also crushed for her. She's already had a superstar, older girl from her club(who just went through this)reach out to her and encourage her. I know that one really helped. 
Anywho...just wanted to share. Thank you to everyone in here who has shared their story, given their advice based on experience, and provided a light at the end of the tunnel.


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## VegasParent (Nov 5, 2021)

soccerchaffeur said:


> I really needed this thread this morning. My 06G tore her acl & meniscus this past weekend(MRI came back yesterday). She's devastated, we're devastated, lots of emotions....it all sucks. Her coaches & teammates have been awesome. Another coach at her club(who coaches my younger girl)has been beyond supportive...hooking her up with a fantastic doc and helping her get to the front of his appointments. While everyone is trying to be positive/supportive, she's a smart kid and knows the mountain she has to climb. She's a sophomore and knows how important this season was both with the HS team and club team. All my wife and I keep telling her is she can do this...that she'll be stronger than ever when she returns. That her love for the game will only increase. While I'm doing my best to be positive for her, I'll admit I'm also crushed for her. She's already had a superstar, older girl from her club(who just went through this)reach out to her and encourage her. I know that one really helped.
> Anywho...just wanted to share. Thank you to everyone in here who has shared their story, given their advice based on experience, and provided a light at the end of the tunnel.


Sorry to hear this. Do your best to keep her (and your own) spirits up. I won't lie, the beginning of the recovery process sucks. But it gets better. Our girls are the same age so I understand when you say how important this year was. Mine was going to be a discovery player for a top SoCal ECNL team but tore her ACL before the season started. She wants to go to the showcase next weekend and hang out with the team so I'm taking her. Whatever it takes to keep her motivated and her spirits up. She's 2 months post op. Physical therapy 3x a week and is hard but she's attacking it. She's about a month out from running and that's the next big milestone. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.


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## Surf Zombie (Nov 5, 2021)

Lot of great advice/input on this thread. My 2007 freshman tore her ACL on 10/3 and will be having surgery on 11/22.  The surgeon told her she can start running and doing non-contact practice after 3 months and could be cleared to play by 6 months. The 6 month mark (Memorial Day) is the very tail end of her ECNL season, so she’ll have the summer before HS season starts again around Labor Day.

The pre-surgery rehab & Ice machine were great tips. Try to keep them connected with their teammates as much as possible. Mine is at her team’s high school playoff game right now.


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## NorCalUSN (Nov 5, 2021)

I'm constantly learning on the ACL front for my 06G. I recommend do as much research as possible if you can before meeting with you doctor. There is a lot of different schools of thought for which type of reconstruction is best.  My DD's knee was on the narrow side and the doc went with a Hamstring/cadaver hybrid in her repair with an internal brace. Looks like the Bone-patella-bone is the gold standard but I think a lot of younger females my not be good candidates.  The biggest thing though is post op, focusing on the rehab and not rushing things.  Our first month was very emotionally devastating to my daughter but more my wife.


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## Surf Zombie (Nov 5, 2021)

Our surgeon said my D’s surgery (hamstring/cadaver/patella) would have to be dictated by whether her growth plates are still open.  They actually did an imaging scan of her hand to help figure out which option would be best.


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## Surf Zombie (Nov 6, 2021)

Any recommendations for a good knee brace for when they are able to return to practice and then games?


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## Mile High Dad (Nov 6, 2021)

My DD used a Don Joy brace. They are sturdy and lightweight. The newer ones look even lighter than a few years ago. We bought some leggings to wear under it. This combo worked well in the CO weather, may be too hot for good weather. They provide good stability and will help you build confidence in your kids return to play. Then your DD will complain about it slowing her down and inhibiting her abilities. For as much fear this brings as a parent, it is quite special watching them fully returned to play.


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## supercell (Nov 6, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> Any recommendations for a good knee brace for when they are able to return to practice and then games?


IMO the best brace is no brace at all. Wait to return to play until confidence is built.


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## Gosocal (Nov 6, 2021)

supercell said:


> IMO the best brace is no brace at all. Wait to return to play until confidence is built.


That is the what our surgeon and PT recommend as well. You don’t see Virgil Van Dyke play with one.


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## Surf Zombie (Nov 7, 2021)

Crazy the different advice by different surgeons. We got opinions from two very qualified surgeons. First teaches at Harvard and is head of surgery at one of the big Boston hospitals. The other is at another big Boston hospital and does surgery on a lot of pro athletes. First told us a brace for a year when she returns to play and the second said no brace needed when she returns to play.




Gosocal said:


> That is the what our surgeon and PT recommend as well. You don’t see Virgil Van Dyke play with one.


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## crush (Nov 7, 2021)

supercell said:


> IMO the best brace is no brace at all. Wait to return to play until confidence is built.


Really?  Is this new way to recover?  This is way better then what I had to endure back min he late 90s.  I tore my ACL and I had to wear a brace until I ripped it off my knee after playing with it for a few years.  I played basketball btw and softball. I never tore it again so I'm not sure if the brace helped or held me back.  I did feel safer with it but I hated it.  Dr. that did my ACL also worked for the LA Kings.  To the OP and his dd; it will all work out.  My good pal son's now getting ready for his Junior year of high school soccer.  He missed all of last year.  His dad said he's actually better because he appreciates the game way more and is playing better.  I will ask him if he has a brace.  My dd has missed a lot of soccer the last three years because of some politics but mostly injuries.  I added about 9 months of missing soccer because of injury.


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## Mile High Dad (Nov 7, 2021)

One of my kid’s best pals tore her ACL today in practice. They have been teammates since U10. She, as a 10, has fed my DD (9) so many beautiful thru balls over years. DA, ECNL and HS, they were quite the pair. This really sucks.


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## Surf Zombie (Nov 8, 2021)

Mile High Dad said:


> One of my kid’s best pals tore her ACL today in practice. They have been teammates since U10. She, as a 10, has fed my DD (9) so many beautiful thru balls over years. DA, ECNL and HS, they were quite the pair. This really sucks.


Oh man, that sucks.  I can't believe how common of an injury this is.  My DD is a freshman and there are three upper classmen on her team who missed the whole season with knee injuries sustained over the spring or summer (two torn ACL's and one torn PCL).  Our surgeon said soccer is the most common sport to see torn ACL's in girls this age.


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## crush (Nov 8, 2021)

Mile High Dad said:


> One of my kid’s best pals tore her ACL today in practice. They have been teammates since U10. She, as a 10, has fed my DD (9) so many beautiful thru balls over years. DA, ECNL and HS, they were quite the pair. This really sucks.


Wow bro. tell your pal 100% that sucks and best wishes ahead.  It seems like this ACL for girls soccer is a real issue.  I heard of another girl yesterday as well and now Mile High Dad pals dd.


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## crush (Nov 8, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> Oh man, that sucks.  I can't believe how common of an injury this is.  My DD is a freshman and there are three upper classmen on her team who missed the whole season with knee injuries sustained over the spring or summer (two torn ACL's and one torn PCL).  Our surgeon said soccer is the most common sport to see torn ACL's in girls this age.


Did he give a reason why most common?


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## Surf Zombie (Nov 8, 2021)

crush said:


> Did he give a reason why most common?
> [/QUOTE
> 
> He said it was based on all the quick lateral movement, plus the sheer number of girls who play soccer.
> ...


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## dk_b (Nov 8, 2021)

There’s a lot of research about ACL tears in girls and women and a number of competing variables that make them more susceptible, especially to non-contact injuries (I did not see one of my twins get injured (it was at a scrimmage at the end of a practice) but have video of the 2d one (injuries 8 weeks apart) and that 2d one was non-contact). Overuse, imbalance between the quads and the hamstrings, the angle created by the ankle/knee/hip (there’s a name for it and I can’t recall it), etc. The PEP training program is designed to teach girls athletic movements that do not sacrifice performance but do protect against ACL tears and if your daughter does only one thing, one ortho surgeon who has published a ton in this area suggests:  strengthen those hammies!  Soccer players tend to have overdeveloped quads relative to their hamstrings (which may be strong but just out of balance w/the quads).  Those large muscles help to stabilize the knee by pulling in opposite directions (my lay description).  If the hamstring is tired and less strong, that pull from the quad makes the knee vulnerable - it is why a 4 game set on a weekend may be risky but what really makes it risk is practice on Mon, no true recovery on Tues, practice Wed leading to 2 games on the following weekend.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  For months on end.

Preventative work does not eliminate the risk but reduces it.  Hamstrings.  It’s where it’s at.


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## Simisoccerfan (Nov 9, 2021)

Good luck to you all.  ACL is not a soccer death sentence and your player can recover and thrive.  There is no best way to go with the surgery and every player recovers differently and not in the same timeline.  I would love for all players over around 14 to only play one game per week with one practice dedicated to recovery and one dedicated to injury prevention.   I know this is a pipe dream due to clubs needing to make money and parent's not understanding what is best for their kids development.


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## NorCalUSN (Nov 10, 2021)

To our recent ACL patients or patient sponsors, my daughter is just over 2 month's post op, but I'm still learning and I want to share info with parents looking for questions to ask and or future parents coming on the board looking for knowledge.
My suggestions:
Breathe, understand for a lot of parents/girls this news is like you've lost a loved one. In a way your daughter will most likely be putting her "soccer life" on hold for a year, this can seem like a small death to some so understand grief and the grieving process as you, your spouse and child deal with it. I know it seems a little over dramatic to look at it this way but everyone deals with it differently. For a parent a year is a year, for a kid a year can seem quite long. Just think about it like dog years, it may be on year to you but it will feel like 7 to your daughter. 
With HMOs and PPOs take a look at your choices for ortho surgeons in your area and if they are in your network, you probably wouldn't choose the first repair shop to fix your car you see, why not do a little research on the ortho surgeon you are recommended. See if they have a sports medicine background or training? I will mention it below regarding Rehab but resist the urge to be tempted to fall for the urge to equate Professional sports team affiliation with quality.
Learn about the different surgeries available to your daughter, Bone-platella-bone, Hamstring, Allograft(Cadaver) Hamstring/allo hybrid? Your daughter's leg size and donor sites can affect the surgeons options, know before you go.
Ask about if the surgeon also will use an internal brace in the surgery or if he thinks your daughter/son's current ACL can be repaired in addition to the reconstruction.
Does the surgeon use Platlet rich plasma in his surgery?
I found out there is a surgeon here in the Bay area who is a signatory on a paper using amnion Biological Augmentation (it looks promising)
Post-surgery:
Look into the rehab places around you if your insurance network has choices, use Yelp, google reviews whatever you can find to make sure you are choosing the right Rehab place. Don't be afraid to drop in to see if the place seems like a professional joint or some guys basement rehab in a office park.
See what kind of certifications and degrees the Rehab guy/gal has, don't be lured by Professional sport team internships do a little research on your own.  
Find out who else they have working at the Rehab place, your guy isn't always going to be there when your daughter/son goes in, who are his/her backups and partners and their qualifications.  
Ask the rehab guy what their return to play timeline can be for your child? How well do they communicate with your ortho surgeon? Don't be fooled or enticed by a hard sell like "I will get your child back on the field by "X month". Every kid is unique and has a best path to recovery it shouldn't be rushed or you can find yourself back in this situation again.
I'm still learning, and will probably add more but I hope this can be helpful to someone


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## dk_b (Nov 10, 2021)

NorCalUSN said:


> don't be lured by Professional sport team internships do a little research on your own.


I agree with this completely.  Far more important to me:  is the surgeon a specialist in pediatric orthopedic surgery and does she/he work with athletes?  The approach (hamstring, patellar, quad, cadaver) may vary depending on the athlete and docs have different views of which is "best".  However, failure rates are obtainable and not "opinion" so you may want to find those out, especially for an athlete.

The healing timing is also interesting - it is not just about getting leg strong but having the grafted tissue actually "turn into" an ACL.  That takes time.


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## VegasParent (Nov 10, 2021)

NorCalUSN said:


> For a parent a year is a year, for a kid a year can seem quite long. Just think about it like dog years, it may be on year to you but it will feel like 7 to your daughter.


Great info. My DD crossed the 2 month mark yesterday. When the Dr. told my kid she would be out a minimum of 6 to 9 months, I thought that's not too bad but in my kids mind it felt like he said 6 to 9 years.


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## Surf Zombie (Nov 10, 2021)

VegasParent said:


> Great info. My DD crossed the 2 month mark yesterday. When the Dr. told my kid she would be out a minimum of 6 to 9 months, I thought that's not too bad but in my kids mind it felt like he said 6 to 9 years.


How often are you having your DD attend practices/scrimmages/games while injured?  Once a week, every event?


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## dk_b (Nov 10, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> How often are you having your DD attend practices/scrimmages/games while injured?  Once a week, every event?


As much as they want but it has not been that frequent - very few practices once school started and some games. Given that their priority is rehab, they are opting to go to a local gym where they can do PT/Dr-approved exercises on non-PT days.


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## VegasParent (Nov 11, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> How often are you having your DD attend practices/scrimmages/games while injured?  Once a week, every event?


She goes to practice once a week. The other days conflict with PT right now but that should be changing with high school soccer ending. She's been to every local game. She's going to the ECNL showcase this weekend (she was a discovery player before getting injured) and the GA showcase next month. She want's to go to the Florida showcase in March but not sure about that one yet.


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## Dubs (Nov 11, 2021)

As you move through the process and come out on the other side, make sure your daughters engage in injury prevention exercises prior to do anything soccer related.  Band work that helps load the hams, quads, Glutes will help to protect the tendons as they begin to train/play.  My DD religiously does it before anything she does.  It really does reduce these injuries.  I wish she had been doing it long prior to her tear.


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## dk_b (Nov 11, 2021)

Dubs said:


> As you move through the process and come out on the other side, make sure your daughters engage in injury prevention exercises prior to do anything soccer related.  Band work that helps load the hams, quads, Glutes will help to protect the tendons as they begin to train/play.  My DD religiously does it before anything she does.  It really does reduce these injuries.  I wish she had been doing it long prior to her tear.


As I drove one of my daughters home from her 6-month appt, she made a similar comment - she said she knew that there were things she could have been doing prior to her injury but will REALLY do them now. Tough way to learn but my hope is that all these girls can spread this gospel to their friends and teammates. As I noted above, you can’t eliminate all risk but you can address certain of the controllable variables and reduce that risk.


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## Dubs (Nov 11, 2021)

dk_b said:


> As I drove one of my daughters home from her 6-month appt, she made a similar comment - she said she knew that there were things she could have been doing prior to her injury but will REALLY do them now. Tough way to learn but my hope is that all these girls can spread this gospel to their friends and teammates. As I noted above, you can’t eliminate all risk but you can address certain of the controllable variables and reduce that risk.


No doubt.  I wish clubs would to more to "enforce" this stuff, but they don't and never will in my estimation.


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## NorCalUSN (Nov 11, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> How often are you having your DD attend practices/scrimmages/games while injured?  Once a week, every event?


We haven't told her "No" but her club team practices about a 45 drive away, rehab twice a week at PT and doing the PT homework multiple days a week is priority. HS soccer is just starting here in NORCAL so she is part of her Varsity Team but more in a equipment manager/motivator for her teammates.  She has attended a couple of her club team games but sometimes that's a little hard on the psyche so she has stayed away. 
Regarding preventive exercises, my daughter was actually one of the few girls at her club that was pretty religious about that and post game.  Being on the skinnier side my wife was super concerned and worked hard with her building quad and balance.  Unfortunately, she just suffered an unfortunate contact injury.  Not dirty just unlucky.


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## dk_b (Nov 11, 2021)

Dubs said:


> No doubt.  I wish clubs would to more to "enforce" this stuff, but they don't and never will in my estimation.


They won't. And, yet, many will say they do.  And very few (likely close to none) will actually reflect on their own injury rates and consider whether they are doing enough. This is a Californiacentric bulletin board and whether one is in NorCal or SoCal, we are all pretty close to some of the best medical resources in the country/world, some of the top researchers and practitioners in the area of pediatric orthopedics.  Why don't more clubs/high schools tap into those resources and provide hands-on, daily, injury prevention programming? We know coaches never want to give up the precious additional 20 to 30 mins that can save kids from many months of rehab - even the clubs that do something, might have a weekly session that is not taken all that seriously when, as we know, this is a daily thing that needs to happen.   (when I coached travel baseball, I'd bring out people from Children's in Oakland to work with my kids on dynamic warm-ups, elbow and shoulder injury prevention, etc. It was worth it to do a pre-season throwing program to help prevent injuries rather than a return-to-play program following Tommy John surgery (which, like ACL for girl soccer players, is epidemic among boys in throwing sports).

Deep breath . . .


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## Gosocal (Nov 11, 2021)

dk_b said:


> They won't. And, yet, many will say they do.  And very few (likely close to none) will actually reflect on their own injury rates and consider whether they are doing enough. This is a Californiacentric bulletin board and whether one is in NorCal or SoCal, we are all pretty close to some of the best medical resources in the country/world, some of the top researchers and practitioners in the area of pediatric orthopedics.  Why don't more clubs/high schools tap into those resources and provide hands-on, daily, injury prevention programming? We know coaches never want to give up the precious additional 20 to 30 mins that can save kids from many months of rehab - even the clubs that do something, might have a weekly session that is not taken all that seriously when, as we know, this is a daily thing that needs to happen.   (when I coached travel baseball, I'd bring out people from Children's in Oakland to work with my kids on dynamic warm-ups, elbow and shoulder injury prevention, etc. It was worth it to do a pre-season throwing program to help prevent injuries rather than a return-to-play program following Tommy John surgery (which, like ACL for girl soccer players, is epidemic among boys in throwing sports).
> 
> Deep breath . . .


I know of one coach who was religious of dynamics prior to every training. Even if you arrived late to training, you still had to do the dynamics routine. He would always boast that he never had a player tear an ACL. When we moved on to other clubs, it was inconsistent and it always worried me this was not implemented. When I could, We would arrive early and do dynamics before training start time. I didn’t understand, 15 mins isn’t going impact training - a good coach will manage time well.


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## Dubs (Nov 12, 2021)

dk_b said:


> They won't. And, yet, many will say they do.  And very few (likely close to none) will actually reflect on their own injury rates and consider whether they are doing enough. This is a Californiacentric bulletin board and whether one is in NorCal or SoCal, we are all pretty close to some of the best medical resources in the country/world, some of the top researchers and practitioners in the area of pediatric orthopedics.  Why don't more clubs/high schools tap into those resources and provide hands-on, daily, injury prevention programming? We know coaches never want to give up the precious additional 20 to 30 mins that can save kids from many months of rehab - even the clubs that do something, might have a weekly session that is not taken all that seriously when, as we know, this is a daily thing that needs to happen.   (when I coached travel baseball, I'd bring out people from Children's in Oakland to work with my kids on dynamic warm-ups, elbow and shoulder injury prevention, etc. It was worth it to do a pre-season throwing program to help prevent injuries rather than a return-to-play program following Tommy John surgery (which, like ACL for girl soccer players, is epidemic among boys in throwing sports).
> 
> Deep breath . . .


I'm 100% with you.  It's truly an epidemic and the clubs are in the best position to help curb it.  If you leave this stuff up to the girls, they'll never do unless of course they've torn their ACL.  I almost feel like clubs are negligant in this..  It takes 15 mins to complete the muscle loading.  SMH.


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## Red card (Nov 21, 2021)

My DD '05 is now in the club.   We will be setting up surgery this week.   Has anyone used stem cell regeneration for recovery or heard any pros or cons?


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## Roostah (Nov 21, 2021)

Dubs said:


> I'm 100% with you.  It's truly an epidemic and the clubs are in the best position to help curb it.  If you leave this stuff up to the girls, they'll never do unless of course they've torn their ACL.  I almost feel like clubs are negligant in this..  It takes 15 mins to complete the muscle loading.  SMH.


Keep in mind that the NFL has some of the strongest, best trained athletes and 46 players have suffered ACL tears so far this season (most of them non contact).  This may point to injury prevention may not be as simple as strengthening or dynamic warm ups.


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## dk_b (Nov 21, 2021)

Roostah said:


> Keep in mind that the NFL has some of the strongest, best trained athletes and 46 players have suffered ACL tears so far this season (most of them non contact).  This may point to injury prevention may not be as simple as strengthening or dynamic warm ups.


none of it is injury prevention, just risk mitigation. There will always be some risk - my intention was not to suggest otherwise (apologies for any confusion my comments may have caused (sincerely))


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## crush (Nov 22, 2021)

Red card said:


> My DD '05 is now in the club.   We will be setting up surgery this week.   Has anyone used stem cell regeneration for recovery or heard any pros or cons?


Sorry to hear about the club membership   I had my ACL surgery 25 years ago next month.  I can say I got an a appreciation and hunger in hoops when I got off IR that I never had before.  I actually played smarter and better after my ACL.


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## VegasParent (Nov 22, 2021)

Red card said:


> My DD '05 is now in the club.   We will be setting up surgery this week.   Has anyone used stem cell regeneration for recovery or heard any pros or cons?


Sorry to hear this. This is club where we hope to not get new member. One of my kids teammates may be unfortunately joining after a very dirty play in a game yesterday. Hoping it's just a sprain but it didn't look good.

I don't know of anyone doing stem cell regeneration. My kid did blood restriction therapy and it seemed help get strength back in her quads pretty quickly. Hoping for a quick recovery for your DD.


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## NorCalUSN (Nov 22, 2021)

It is starting to feel like a club I that I wish membership was capped at zero. I am wondering about something, that more enlightened minds than myself should look at but....  My daughter is in the U-16 range, another of her teammates also an 06 just joined the unofficial club two weeks ago.  In my research to shore up my daughter's morale I read Cat Macario tore her during her sophomore year as well.  Maybe it is something with the maturation stage of our daughters, maybe the transition from small girls to big girls that our DD are the undersized victims.  Who knows for sure but it would be something to look into.  
For future member's joining the club possibly looking for new ways to repair I found a Dr. Chen here in the Bay Area, he was not our guy, but I would definitely look at him if I was facing a renewal of membership.








						Procedures by Dr. James Chen MD
					

Dr. Chen is a top San Francisco orthopedic surgeon who offers advanced arthroscopic and open surgical procedures to his patients.




					jameschenmd.com
				



or








						Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction With Amnion Biological Augmentation
					

Anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) ruptures are common and unfortunate injuries for many athletes. The standard therapy for ACL rupture is ACL reconstruction with either autograft, harvested from hamstring or patellar tendon, or allograft tendon from a tissue donor. Advances in tissue engineering...



					www.arthroscopytechniques.org


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## Red card (Nov 23, 2021)

So i wasn't  at the game when this happened.  My wife told me yesterday that one of the club coaches came and asked her if she was on her menstrual  cycle and she was the next day.   So  I just looked it up and.......

https://myesurgi.com/the-menstrual-cycles-effect-on-acl-injury-rates/ 

There were many studies done. I don't know if this would help anyone but this is the research


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## NorCalUSN (Nov 23, 2021)

Man, that is a third-rail I don't want to even go close to.  Can you imagine that conversation.  No thank you.


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## Red card (Nov 23, 2021)

NorCalUSN said:


> Man, that is a third-rail I don't want to even go close to.  Can you imagine that conversation.  No thank you.


Im not sure what you mean but it is a legitimate study and there are more than one.  It is honest and if I think if the truth is out there then folks can make informed decision.


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## Mile High Dad (Nov 23, 2021)

It truly is. Anecdotal perhaps but my DD’s 3 teammates that suffered non contact injuries were on cycle. The dad of one of them is the one doing the research and it is eye opening. He also suggested some contact ones may be suffered during this time too. Not for my DD, though. I still have the DA game that it happened in on my computer but 4 years later cannot watch it. My DD has though.


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## NorCalUSN (Nov 23, 2021)

NorCalUSN said:


> Man, that is a third-rail I don't want to even go close to.  Can you imagine that conversation.  No thank you.


I do not doubt the veracity of the study.  Definitely something that could/should be looked into, i'm sure.  I'm just picturing a conversation with my wife and daughter where I ask about her cycle and then tell her she shouldn't play today.  NOT. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.


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## Simisoccerfan (Nov 24, 2021)

Red card said:


> So i wasn't  at the game when this happened.  My wife told me yesterday that one of the club coaches came and asked her if she was on her menstrual  cycle and she was the next day.   So  I just looked it up and.......
> 
> https://myesurgi.com/the-menstrual-cycles-effect-on-acl-injury-rates/
> 
> There were many studies done. I don't know if this would help anyone but this is the research


On average 65 NFL players tear their ACL per year.   I think you can make data tell you whatever you want.   The study mentioned was only of 38 females.  No mention on how they were chosen to participate which could certainly tip the results.  Only 27 had cycle information.   10 of them tore their ACL immediate before or 1-2 days after.  No mention if these 10 females had anything other going on that was similar that could have resulted in their injury.  Facts matter.   Now this may or may not be a factor but it seems silly to base conclusions on 10 injuries.


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## Red card (Nov 24, 2021)

Simisoccerfan said:


> On average 65 NFL players tear their ACL per year.   I think you can make data tell you whatever you want.   The study mentioned was only of 38 females.  No mention on how they were chosen to participate which could certainly tip the results.  Only 27 had cycle information.   10 of them tore their ACL immediate before or 1-2 days after.  No mention if these 10 females had anything other going on that was similar that could have resulted in their injury.  Facts matter.   Now this may or may not be a factor but it seems silly to base conclusions on 10 injuries.


that isn't the only study. 
Maybe it has a connection I don't know that is way above my pay grade. The coach asked my wife as if she is collecting data.  If you have a daughter in the age group 15-19 and she tears an ACL you can ask her if she is on cycle. Either way don't be  shocked if  she gets asked that question.  Then at that time you can tell them your thoughts on the matter


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## crush (Nov 24, 2021)

Red card said:


> that isn't the only study.
> Maybe it has a connection I don't know that is way above my pay grade. The coach asked my wife as if she is collecting data.  If you have a daughter in the age group 15-19 and she tears an ACL you can ask her if she is on cycle. Either way don't be  shocked if  she gets asked that question.  Then at that time you can tell them your thoughts on the matter


It would be so helpful to get the truth on this one way or another.


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## Calikid (Nov 24, 2021)

This is an extremely important and helpful article to read as to the optimal time frame to return to the field of play after an ACL injury.

*Young Athletes Who Return to Sport Before 9 Months After Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction Have a Rate of New Injury 7 Times That of Those Who Delay Return*




			https://www.jospt.org/doi/full/10.2519/jospt.2020.9071


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## dk_b (Nov 24, 2021)

Calikid said:


> This is an extremely important and helpful article to read as to the optimal time frame to return to the field of play after an ACL injury.
> 
> *Young Athletes Who Return to Sport Before 9 Months After Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction Have a Rate of New Injury 7 Times That of Those Who Delay Return*
> 
> ...


This is consistent with my daughters’ orthopedist’s approach. He explains that it has nothing to do with how good the rehab is or how strong the athlete is but how the graft has healed and whether it has become a “new” ACL. You cannot really assess the graft - it will show as swollen for some time after clearance - so you use some functional testing then the data that shows a 9-month timetable (much less risk from waiting > 9 months v waiting months < 9).  9 months for one of my kids is Jan 30 and March 8 for the other but we are taking a ”wait and see” approach.  We know they are getting stronger, more flexible and are working their programs. But we have zero expectation that they will be fully cleared prior to those dates (and a reasonable belief that it could be after).


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## Calikid (Nov 24, 2021)

We have many friends with girls that returned to play prior to 9 months post surgery due to be cleared by their Physical Therapist.  Unfortunately, quite a few suffered reinjury to the same ACL within six months. One on her first day back on the pitch, which was really sad.


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## supercell (Nov 24, 2021)

Calikid said:


> This is an extremely important and helpful article to read as to the optimal time frame to return to the field of play after an ACL injury.
> 
> *Young Athletes Who Return to Sport Before 9 Months After Anterior Cruciate Ligament Reconstruction Have a Rate of New Injury 7 Times That of Those Who Delay Return*
> 
> ...


Interesting study. Previously studies like this have been based on general population with widely varying rehab programs and questionable functional testing which skewed the stats. Our doc and PTs insisted that rigid adherence to time-frames is not the right way to prescribe rehab activities or assess readiness to return to play. There are just too many factors involved.


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## Red card (Nov 25, 2021)

Is there a post rehab MRI typically?


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## Surf Zombie (Nov 25, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> My 2007 9th grader just tore her ACL in a game. Essentially half way through her HS season. Cleared a ball with her right foot and as she was bringing it back down slipped on the wet turf and her knee twisted awkwardly.
> 
> We are In the process of scheduling surgery. Will miss the rest of her HS season and probably all (most?) of her ECNL season which is early December-late May.
> 
> Anyone else been through it and have any tips on the recovery process? She made it from U8 until now without ever being injured, so it’s going to be a big adjustment I’m sure.


Mine had surgery this past Monday.  First 72 hours have been pretty rough.  Hoping the pain starts subsiding over the weekend.  She's using a continuous passive motion machine 10 hours a day for the first week that is supposed to be very helpful, plus the ice machine.


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## Texas2Cali (Nov 25, 2021)

USWNT, Chelsea women, many others starting to tailor training, recover and playing time around menstrual cycle. Worth a watch:


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## supercell (Nov 25, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> Mine had surgery this past Monday.  First 72 hours have been pretty rough.  Hoping the pain starts subsiding over the weekend.  She's using a continuous passive motion machine 10 hours a day for the first week that is supposed to be very helpful, plus the ice machine.


My dd had a tough time with pain that first week also although we didn't have the CPM. She was teased by the lack of pain while the nerve block was in play the first 24 hrs and didn't get on the oral painkillers early enough to stay ahead of it. It only gets better from here, keep icing.


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## Simisoccerfan (Nov 26, 2021)

I agree with the 9 months timeframe.  My daughter was an anomaly returning early.


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## Calikid (Nov 26, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> Mine had surgery this past Monday.  First 72 hours have been pretty rough.  Hoping the pain starts subsiding over the weekend.  She's using a continuous passive motion machine 10 hours a day for the first week that is supposed to be very helpful, plus the ice machine.


It sounds like you are on the right track. After the first 5-7 days, things get easier. We stayed away from the perscription opioid pain relief and stuck with Dr. approved heavy doses of Ibuprofen and acetaminophen. It was a bit more difficult for pain management but we dint wish to introduce opioids into our kids life.


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## Calikid (Nov 26, 2021)

supercell said:


> Interesting study. Previously studies like this have been based on general population with widely varying rehab programs and questionable functional testing which skewed the stats. Our doc and PTs insisted that rigid adherence to time-frames is not the right way to prescribe rehab activities or assess readiness to return to play. There are just too many factors involved.


Even with all of the factors involved, the study clearly shows that the tendon just needs time to become the new ACL.  As I stated earlier, we know of many who went back to the playing field prior to the 9 month threshold and suffered reinjury. We do not know of anyone that waited at least 9 months to return that has suffered reinjury. Its always better to error on the side of caution.


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## Calikid (Nov 26, 2021)

Also, for those who may be in the process of deciding which tendon to graph, I would highly recommend looking into the newer preferred quad tendon. There are many reasons why the quad tendon is favored over the patellar and hamstring , but its best that you do your own research and read as many independent studies as possible. Also, dont let a surgeon decide what tendon is best. They will more than likely recommend the tendon that they are trained to harvest as a new ACL.


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## Red card (Nov 26, 2021)

Calikid said:


> It sounds like you are on the right track. After the first 5-7 days, things get easier. We stayed away from the perscription opioid pain relief and stuck with Dr. approved heavy doses of Ibuprofen and acetaminophen. It was a bit more difficult for pain management but we dint wish to introduce opioids into our kids life.


Did you consider CBD for pain killers?  Id like to avoid the opiod stuff too


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## dk_b (Nov 26, 2021)

Calikid said:


> Also, for those who may be in the process of deciding which tendon to graph, I would highly recommend looking into the newer preferred quad tendon. There are many reasons why the quad tendon is favored over the patellar and hamstring , but its best that you do your own research and read as many independent studies as possible. Also, dont let a surgeon decide what tendon is best. They will more than likely recommend the tendon that they are trained to harvest as a new ACL.


Our doc went through the various options with us and our identical twins (2 mins apart at birth, 8 weeks apart on ACL tears, 5 weeks apart on surgeries) actually had two different procedures b/c of their specific physiologies and small differences in their injuries (but mostly their physiologies - a way in which they are not presently identical (growth plate closures)).  But while I'd trust our surgeon a bit more than @Calikid's recommendation (no offense, @Calikid), I agree with @Calikid's underlying point (as I interpret it) of not just going with one just "because".  I really trust surgeons who don't always look for surgical options for specific injuries and I trust ones that empower the parent with the decision-making based on information and I really trust those who are comfortable with different procedures based on the specific patient. If you are with a Dr who only recs one approach b/c of their limited training, I'd definitely rec finding another doctor.


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## supercell (Nov 27, 2021)

I dunno @dk_b. Is matching the graft type you want more important than the surgeon's experience and skill level? 

I think ideally you want medical advice on which graft type is best for your child, but at the same time, you also want a surgeon who specializes in that graft type, has done it hundreds of times recently, and has a good success rate with with it on young athletes. I suspect the details of the surgery and quality of PT play at least as large a role as time does when considering re-injury rates. The details of technique are very likely to be critically important and experience may even be more important than graft type.

But of course, all of that experience is useless without feedback on efficacy. With so many ACL surgeries every year, you would think that there should be a better statistical basis to answer these kinds of questions. Wouldn't it be nice if your surgeon could boast a lower re-injury rate history and be able to back that up? Given the average ortho's income and the risk to our children, it seems like we should be demanding that kind of accountability here. If we had that sort of info, we parents probably wouldn't be mucking about in the details of graft type. It would all come down to who has the right formula to minimize recurrence (and perhaps other attributes).


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## Surf Zombie (Nov 27, 2021)

Thought I’d share this with you all. This is my DD’s surgeon from Children’s Hospital in Boston.

https://www.childrenshospital.org/directory/physicians/m/lyle-micheli

They have a very intense and highly recommended post ACL injury return to sports program. Although it is in Boston, my understanding they offer all this stuff virtually.  Going to put my DD in the program at around the 6 month mark.





__





						ACL Injury Prevention | The Micheli Center for Sports Injury Prevention
					






					www.themichelicenter.com


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## dk_b (Nov 27, 2021)

supercell said:


> I dunno @dk_b. Is matching the graft type you want more important than the surgeon's experience and skill level?
> 
> I think ideally you want medical advice on which graft type is best for your child, but at the same time, you also want a surgeon who specializes in that graft type, has done it hundreds of times recently, and has a good success rate with with it on young athletes. I suspect the details of the surgery and quality of PT play at least as large a role as time does when considering re-injury rates. The details of technique are very likely to be critically important and experience may even be more important than graft type.
> 
> But of course, all of that experience is useless without feedback on efficacy. With so many ACL surgeries every year, you would think that there should be a better statistical basis to answer these kinds of questions. Wouldn't it be nice if your surgeon could boast a lower re-injury rate history and be able to back that up? Given the average ortho's income and the risk to our children, it seems like we should be demanding that kind of accountability here. If we had that sort of info, we parents probably wouldn't be mucking about in the details of graft type. It would all come down to who has the right formula to minimize recurrence (and perhaps other attributes).


I am not sure we are saying anything different here - you want all of that.  If there is a physiological reason why one approach is better than another for a specific patient, you want a doctor that can identify the nuance and make recommendations (that are supported by data).  If a surgeon specializes in a certain approach to the exclusion of others, it begs the question (as was raised above) since not every case can fit in the same scheme (even if many or most do). The most important factors (to me) in selecting a surgeon (as I mentioned upthread) is a surgeon who specializes in pediatric athletes.  Not every orthopedic does and their approach, bedside manner, etc. may differ. They are all doing a ton of cases and, again as I mentioned upthread, those of us commenting from NorCal or SoCal are really lucky because we have access to some truly exceptional practitioners.

There were very specific reasons for the two different approaches with my twins and I'm comfortable w/how we did it.


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## Calikid (Nov 28, 2021)

dk_b said:


> I am not sure we are saying anything different here - you want all of that.  If there is a physiological reason why one approach is better than another for a specific patient, you want a doctor that can identify the nuance and make recommendations (that are supported by data).  If a surgeon specializes in a certain approach to the exclusion of others, it begs the question (as was raised above) since not every case can fit in the same scheme (even if many or most do). The most important factors (to me) in selecting a surgeon (as I mentioned upthread) is a surgeon who specializes in pediatric athletes.  Not every orthopedic does and their approach, bedside manner, etc. may differ. They are all doing a ton of cases and, again as I mentioned upthread, those of us commenting from NorCal or SoCal are really lucky because we have access to some truly exceptional practitioners.
> 
> There were very specific reasons for the two different approaches with my twins and I'm comfortable w/how we did it.



Specializing in pediatric athletes is a huge plus and should be taken into consideration as a top priority.  I am in So Cal and we visited five surgeons that specialized in pediatric athletes. All were trained in hamstring, patellar and quad. Four of the five recommended quad for my kid. The one who did not later admitted that the reason why they did not is because they were not trained on harvesting the quad tendon for ACL replacement.
Please do your research (read independent studies) on all of the advantages and disadvantages of all three tendons.


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## Calikid (Nov 28, 2021)

Calikid said:


> Specializing in pediatric athletes is a huge plus and should be taken into consideration as a top priority.  I am in So Cal and we visited five surgeons that specialized in pediatric athletes. All were trained in hamstring, patellar and quad. Four of the five recommended quad for my kid. The one who did not later admitted that the reason why they did not is because they were not trained on harvesting the quad tendon for ACL replacement.
> Please do your research (read independent studies) on all of the advantages and disadvantages of all three tendons.


So basically we caught that one Surgeon fibbing in order to secure an appointment and try to convince us on a non quad tendon so he/she could perform the surgery. After all that is how they make a living. So beware.


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## dk_b (Nov 28, 2021)

Calikid said:


> So basically we caught that one Surgeon fibbing in order to secure an appointment and try to convince us on a non quad tendon so he/she could perform the surgery. After all that is how they make a living. So beware.


Really sound advice.  That’s why I noted that a good sign - for me - is a surgeon who does not always resort to surgery (I don’t mean in the ACL context but we have been seeing my kids’ orthopedist for a number of years, w/all 4 of my kids so our interactions with our guy spans time and variety (and gender as I have one son and 3 daughters)). Having a expert whom you can trust is just so important since, in the end, we make the healthcare decisions for our kids based on that advice (the doctors don’t make that decision). In fact, there was one orthopedic surgery on one of my kids that he did not do b/c it was not w/in his expertise. We originally saw one of his colleagues who recommended another person and he saw that as the wise/right choice even if, as a technical matter, he could have done that procedure.


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## Dubs (Nov 29, 2021)

dk_b said:


> Really sound advice.  That’s why I noted that a good sign - for me - is a surgeon who does not always resort to surgery (I don’t mean in the ACL context but we have been seeing my kids’ orthopedist for a number of years, w/all 4 of my kids so our interactions with our guy spans time and variety (and gender as I have one son and 3 daughters)). Having a expert whom you can trust is just so important since, in the end, we make the healthcare decisions for our kids based on that advice (the doctors don’t make that decision). In fact, there was one orthopedic surgery on one of my kids that he did not do b/c it was not w/in his expertise. We originally saw one of his colleagues who recommended another person and he saw that as the wise/right choice even if, as a technical matter, he could have done that procedure.


We saw three different orthopedists.  They all pretty much gave us the same options as everyone has noted, so we left it to our daughter to decide on what Doc and what procedure.  As parents, we obviously gave our input, but she ultimately chose the doc that made her feel most comfortable and we agreed.  Of the procedures, she chose the one which actually gave her the longer recovery time, but had the best outlook for her in the future.


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## Calikid (Nov 30, 2021)

Dubs said:


> We saw three different orthopedists.  They all pretty much gave us the same options as everyone has noted, so we left it to our daughter to decide on what Doc and what procedure.  As parents, we obviously gave our input, but she ultimately chose the doc that made her feel most comfortable and we agreed.  Of the procedures, she chose the one which actually gave her the longer recovery time, but had the best outlook for her in the future.


Research has shown, the longer the better!


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## Red card (Dec 10, 2021)

I realize this Thread has probably run its course.  But I wanted to share my daughters essay about where she's at with her injury.  She is 16 so please no negative comments.


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## crush (Dec 10, 2021)

Red card said:


> I realize this Thread has probably run its course.  But I wanted to share my daughters essay about where she's at with her injury.  She is 16 so please no negative comments.


Thank you for sharing Red Card.  Tell your dd 100% prayers to her for a healthy recovery.


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## dk_b (Dec 10, 2021)

Red card said:


> I realize this Thread has probably run its course.  But I wanted to share my daughters essay about where she's at with her injury.  She is 16 so please no negative comments.


I think she captures a lot of the feelings many of our kids have felt. Thank you for sharing that.

(I ended up not posting on this thread but my kids' doc sent me a few articles regarding return-to-play and they are pretty clear on the data of reinjury rates for those who return to play before 9 months and those who return after 9 months.  Obviously not all athletes will reinjure - in fact, most won't - but a 1-in-3 chance v 1-in-20 chance is powerful evidence for me to be an advocate of my two kids waiting)


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## crush (Dec 10, 2021)

dk_b said:


> I think she captures a lot of the feelings many of our kids have felt. Thank you for sharing that.
> 
> (I ended up not posting on this thread but my kids' doc sent me a few articles regarding return-to-play and they are pretty clear on the data of reinjury rates for those who return to play before 9 months and those who return after 9 months.  Obviously not all athletes will reinjure - in fact, most won't - but a 1-in-3 chance v 1-in-20 chance is powerful evidence for me to be an advocate of my two kids waiting)


Excellent sage advice again.  We need your help bro.  It's the pressure to NOT get hurt because of this and all of that, and what that is for each kid and her family is different but the pressure remains the same.  The kids should just be playing soccer for fun.  I bet less injuries?  3 games in a row seems way too much for these dds of ours who feel the pressure.  I hope we can find easier ways to get a deal done to play college ball.


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## Red card (Dec 10, 2021)

dk_b said:


> I think she captures a lot of the feelings many of our kids have felt. Thank you for sharing that.
> 
> (I ended up not posting on this thread but my kids' doc sent me a few articles regarding return-to-play and they are pretty clear on the data of reinjury rates for those who return to play before 9 months and those who return after 9 months.  Obviously not all athletes will reinjure - in fact, most won't - but a 1-in-3 chance v 1-in-20 chance is powerful evidence for me to be an advocate of my two kids waiting)


thank you.  im personally pushing for a longer recovery.


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## NorCalUSN (Dec 13, 2021)

I wish the clubs or maybe the GA/ECNL could enact/follow some kind of protocol about return to play post ACL. I know it's a pipe dream. Maybe they have something. Reading how some of these clubs care about the financial bottom line I would think they would want something like that to protect them from liability.  
Personally, I am of the mindset nothing remotely play-related until at least 9 months. My daughter recently passed her 100th day post op and her Surgeon said she is well on her way to meeting that 9-month mark. She is much more mature and level-headed about the risk/reward of premature return to play, (better than I would have been). My wife and I are also a lot more conservative on this milestone and have little problem holding her out to the 12 month mark or longer depending on advice from both the Surgeon and the Physical Therapist.
However, I really feel sorry/concerned for some of the girls out there who feel the pressure of early return to play. 
This weekend my wife tells me "(Daughter's name) saw girl from Club NAME who returned to play at six months, on instagram." I know we often talk about the power our daughter's coaches have, but in this case I wish the coaches would push back and tell these parents/kids to wait. (Don't get me started on the annoyance and influence of Social Media)
Yes, I know circumstances for an 17/18 year old hoping for that best last look at a showcase are different than that 14/15/16 year old. But for a lot of these girls perception is reality. If they think they are going to get passed by or overlooked during their sophomore year it is going to become all too real. 
To summarize I really hope parents understand the pro/con matrix of early return to play, I hope they do their research and make informed decisions about their daughter.


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## supercell (Dec 13, 2021)

The problem with strict timelines whether long or short is that they don't factor in all the variables that people have. The specifics of injury, surgeon's technique, graft type, the athlete's confidence level, and most importantly, the specifics of rehab are all huge factors. Radical reconstructions and/or poor discipline during PT may stretch recoveries dramatically. ACL tears with no complications and a young motivated athlete with good training will generally return to play earlier.
IMO functional testing combined with your physical therapist and surgeon's experience should determine the right time to return to play.  No blanket timeline imposed by a league or coach can possibly advise you on this accurately, nor should they.


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## oh canada (Dec 13, 2021)

Red card said:


> I realize this Thread has probably run its course.  But I wanted to share my daughters essay about where she's at with her injury.  She is 16 so please no negative comments.


This thread will never run its course, unfortunately. It is one of the most important threads of this forum. Tell your daughter this teacher thinks her writing is great work! Do you mind sharing...which game/day of her three did it happen?


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## Surf Zombie (Dec 13, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> My 2007 9th grader just tore her ACL in a game. Essentially half way through her HS season. Cleared a ball with her right foot and as she was bringing it back down slipped on the wet turf and her knee twisted awkwardly.
> 
> We are In the process of scheduling surgery. Will miss the rest of her HS season and probably all (most?) of her ECNL season which is early December-late May.
> 
> Anyone else been through it and have any tips on the recovery process? She made it from U8 until now without ever being injured, so it’s going to be a big adjustment I’m sure.


My DD is 3 weeks post surgery today. First two weeks were really tough. Lot of pain.

Her team had their first two post high school games this weekend. Was great for her to get out to the games and get to feel like part of the team.  Hope everyone else who has a kid going through this is heading in the right direction.


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## Red card (Dec 15, 2021)

oh canada said:


> This thread will never run its course, unfortunately. It is one of the most important threads of this forum. Tell your daughter this teacher thinks her writing is great work! Do you mind sharing...which game/day of her three did it happen?


i wasn't there.  i think it was the second game.  Thank you, I thought it was a good essay too.  I suggested to her to blog her experiences maybe help other girls or even herself.


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## NorCalUSN (Dec 15, 2021)

Red card said:


> i wasn't there.  i think it was the second game.  Thank you, I thought it was a good essay too.  I suggested to her to blog her experiences maybe help other girls or even herself.


My wife, my daughter's best friend/motivator/trainer/coach keeps a journal as well.  In addition to coordinating her Physical Therapy, taxi service and homework completion they take a photo of her knees almost every day to show her progression.


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## Surf Zombie (Dec 18, 2021)

Not interested in rushing my DD back onto the field, but have a return to play question.  

Her ECNL season ends late May (which will be 6 months post surgery) and her sophomore HS season starts early September (10 months post surgery). I don't expect her to play (meaning without restriction in a real game) until the HS season 10 month post surgery mark (if everything goes well).  

That said my question is at what point post surgery did your DD's start jogging/running/doing non-contact ball work?  My DD's surgeon said she will likely be cleared to do those things at the 3 month post surgery mark.  Just curious if that is a typical or atypical timeline.  Thanks in advance.


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## supercell (Dec 18, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> Not interested in rushing my DD back onto the field, but have a return to play question.
> 
> Her ECNL season ends late May (which will be 6 months post surgery) and her sophomore HS season starts early September (10 months post surgery). I don't expect her to play (meaning without restriction in a real game) until the HS season 10 month post surgery mark (if everything goes well).
> 
> That said my question is at what point post surgery did your DD's start jogging/running/doing non-contact ball work?  My DD's surgeon said she will likely be cleared to do those things at the 3 month post surgery mark.  Just curious if that is a typical or atypical timeline.  Thanks in advance.


That's pretty similar to my dd's timeline. She was running in the aquatic treadmill at 2 months and on the regular treadmill at 3 months. She didn't do anything with a ball until 4 mos though. 
The timing of your daughter's seasons sounds pretty fortunate with first game possible at 10 mos or more.


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## NorCalUSN (Dec 20, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> Not interested in rushing my DD back onto the field, but have a return to play question.
> 
> Her ECNL season ends late May (which will be 6 months post surgery) and her sophomore HS season starts early September (10 months post surgery). I don't expect her to play (meaning without restriction in a real game) until the HS season 10 month post surgery mark (if everything goes well).
> 
> That said my question is at what point post surgery did your DD's start jogging/running/doing non-contact ball work?  My DD's surgeon said she will likely be cleared to do those things at the 3 month post surgery mark.  Just curious if that is a typical or atypical timeline.  Thanks in advance.


My daughter is at about 3.5 months post-op.  Her Physical Therapist has her on the "no weight" treadmill and light linear running back and forth in the PT room.  At night she does light ball touches with my wife in addition to her other PT homework.  We are still wait/see on when she can return to a outside less controlled training environment.  However, our PT is very optimistic she can return sooner rather than later.  Not sure my daughter is typical or atypical, she is definitely putting in the extra work and her PT and Ortho have remarked on her progress.


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## Dubs (Dec 21, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> Not interested in rushing my DD back onto the field, but have a return to play question.
> 
> Her ECNL season ends late May (which will be 6 months post surgery) and her sophomore HS season starts early September (10 months post surgery). I don't expect her to play (meaning without restriction in a real game) until the HS season 10 month post surgery mark (if everything goes well).
> 
> That said my question is at what point post surgery did your DD's start jogging/running/doing non-contact ball work?  My DD's surgeon said she will likely be cleared to do those things at the 3 month post surgery mark.  Just curious if that is a typical or atypical timeline.  Thanks in advance.


 For my daughter, she was running at 3 months, which really helped her mental state.  She stayed away from ball work untl about 4.5 months just because we knew should would push the envelope.  For her first run she ran 5 miles and was pretty sore.  She ran on the track and only ran in one direction and that's probably what caused the discomfort.  That was a mistake.  If your dd is going to run on the track have her do an equal amount of laps the other direction.  She rejoined her club practices at the 11 month mark, but all along the way was religiously in the gym strengthening.   Once she rejoined, she felt pretty good, but make sure your DD is honest with herself about how she feels and be willing to scale back whatever if need be.  It's a process, but she'll come through.  As you've stated... don't rush anything.  That glue is not dry until 12 months.


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## Surf Zombie (Dec 22, 2021)

Surf Zombie said:


> Not interested in rushing my DD back onto the field, but have a return to play question.
> 
> Her ECNL season ends late May (which will be 6 months post surgery) and her sophomore HS season starts early September (10 months post surgery). I don't expect her to play (meaning without restriction in a real game) until the HS season 10 month post surgery mark (if everything goes well).
> 
> That said my question is at what point post surgery did your DD's start jogging/running/doing non-contact ball work?  My DD's surgeon said she will likely be cleared to do those things at the 3 month post surgery mark.  Just curious if that is a typical or atypical timeline.  Thanks in advance.


Sage advice. Thanks.


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## Surf Zombie (Dec 22, 2021)

Dubs said:


> For my daughter, she was running at 3 months, which really helped her mental state.  She stayed away from ball work untl about 4.5 months just because we knew should would push the envelope.  For her first run she ran 5 miles and was pretty sore.  She ran on the track and only ran in one direction and that's probably what caused the discomfort.  That was a mistake.  If your dd is going to run on the track have her do an equal amount of laps the other direction.  She rejoined her club practices at the 11 month mark, but all along the way was religiously in the gym strengthening.   Once she rejoined, she felt pretty good, but make sure your DD is honest with herself about how she feels and be willing to scale back whatever if need be.  It's a process, but she'll come through.  As you've stated... don't rush anything.  That glue is not dry until 12 months.


Sage advice. Thanks.


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## VegasParent (Jan 20, 2022)

NorCalUSN said:


> My daughter is at about 3.5 months post-op.  Her Physical Therapist has her on the "no weight" treadmill and light linear running back and forth in the PT room.  At night she does light ball touches with my wife in addition to her other PT homework.  We are still wait/see on when she can return to a outside less controlled training environment.  However, our PT is very optimistic she can return sooner rather than later.  Not sure my daughter is typical or atypical, she is definitely putting in the extra work and her PT and Ortho have remarked on her progress.


My kid just crossed 4 months post-op. She was cleared by the Ortho to start running at 3 months but her physical therapist held her off until about 3 and a half to keep working on the strength of her quads and hamstrings. She is now doing 5 minutes of running and a minute walking without the brace for about an hour at team practice and the first 30 minutes of physical therapy. She has also been cleared to do light passing. Her coach has her (and 2 other injured teammates) as the outside bumper in certain drills. Both the Ortho and PT say she's doing great and on target. She has her first major strength test where they hook up sensors to her in 3 weeks.


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## dk_b (Jan 20, 2022)

VegasParent said:


> My kid just crossed 4 months post-op. She was cleared by the Ortho to start running at 3 months but her physical therapist held her off until about 3 and a half to keep working on the strength of her quads and hamstrings. She is now doing 5 minutes of running and a minute walking without the brace for about an hour at team practice and the first 30 minutes of physical therapy. She has also been cleared to do light passing. Her coach has her (and 2 other injured teammates) as the outside bumper in certain drills. Both the Ortho and PT say she's doing great and on target. She has her first major strength test where they hook up sensors to her in 3 weeks.


Can I stand up and cheer that your child will be doing the strength test so early? My twins had their injuries 8 weeks apart last spring and their surgeries about 5 weeks apart. Thing 1 is getting close to the end and they did a motion/strength assessment a week or so ago. Having that information earlier would have been really helpful b/c you are going to get a baseline of data that can help tailor your kid's rehab over the next stretch. For my kid, she was terribly disappointed, thinking that she was closer to the end than she likely is and then seeing the #s and the areas of deficiency.  I explained to her that the information is so helpful - that was then repeated by her PT.  We are applying some of those findings to Thing 2's rehab as well since they are genetically identical and their injuries are the same.

Similar to the expanding of cardiac checks for athletes and the use of tools like the IMPACT for brain baselines (helpful in concussion recovery), having this strength assessment in HEALTHY athletes would be amazing since some variables that heighten ACL injury risk can be identified through that tool - weak hamstrings or imbalance between quad and hamstring strength being two key variables.


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## Surf Zombie (Mar 5, 2022)

Surf Zombie said:


> My 2007 9th grader just tore her ACL in a game. Essentially half way through her HS season. Cleared a ball with her right foot and as she was bringing it back down slipped on the wet turf and her knee twisted awkwardly.
> 
> We are In the process of scheduling surgery. Will miss the rest of her HS season and probably all (most?) of her ECNL season which is early December-late May.
> 
> Anyone else been through it and have any tips on the recovery process? She made it from U8 until now without ever being injured, so it’s going to be a big adjustment I’m sure.



So my DD is approaching the 4 month post surgery mark and has been cleared by her surgeon & PT to start jogging next week.  Can any of you share your experience with that stage of recovery?  I'm not sure if its jogging v. running or how long/often she should be going.  I

'll speak with her PT next week, but figured someone on here could share some good insight.  Thanks in advance.


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## VegasParent (Mar 7, 2022)

Surf Zombie said:


> So my DD is approaching the 4 month post surgery mark and has been cleared by her surgeon & PT to start jogging next week.  Can any of you share your experience with that stage of recovery?  I'm not sure if its jogging v. running or how long/often she should be going.  I
> 
> 'll speak with her PT next week, but figured someone on here could share some good insight.  Thanks in advance.


Mine started jogging at 3 and half months. Very light pace that increased week after week. On the treadmill the speed was 5. We just hit 6 months post op and now she is up to 6.5 for 10 minutes, walk for 1 minute and then 10 minutes again. She was just cleared by the ortho to return to full training with no restrictions but slowly last Friday. We see the PT today to work out the schedule for what she should do at practice. My plan is to still not play until 9 months post op which will be June.


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## dk_b (Mar 7, 2022)

It's really interesting how different orthopedists can approach recovery and clearing so differently.  It makes it hard or confusing in sharing information since it is so dependent on provider and everyone is going to feel pretty confident in what their "experts" are saying.  My twins tore their ACLs w/in 8 weeks of each other last spring (surgeries were 5 weeks apart).  Their dr (his clinical/surgical is entirely pediatric orthopedics though he does advise on adult injuries as well but more as a consultant) will not clear any player for return to full contact until 9 months and, only then, if they "pass" their strength/motion assessment. My twins have been diligent in their rehab and the first one - I will call her Thing 1 - will be having her first full-contact practice today, 10 months + 1 week post-surgery. She will be on limited minutes but structured to increase and cannot play any back-to-back games this spring.  The fatigue is when form breaks down and when form breaks down + muscles are tired is when the risk of reinjury increases (as he puts it, if she's at 30 mins, he wants her to feel like she can do 30 more as opposed to hitting a wall at 25). When she's out there, there is no limitation (other than time).  Thing 2 has her final strength/motion assessment in about a month and I assume a similar schedule.  Unfortunately for both girls, the spring season for their team is light and the games are mostly concentrated at the beginning so Thing 1 will get a few games and Thing 2 maybe only 1 at the back end. But we know they are stronger and we know they have been taught improved dynamics.


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## VegasParent (Mar 7, 2022)

dk_b said:


> It's really interesting how different orthopedists can approach recovery and clearing so differently.  It makes it hard or confusing in sharing information since it is so dependent on provider and everyone is going to feel pretty confident in what their "experts" are saying.  My twins tore their ACLs w/in 8 weeks of each other last spring (surgeries were 5 weeks apart).  Their dr (his clinical/surgical is entirely pediatric orthopedics though he does advise on adult injuries as well but more as a consultant) will not clear any player for return to full contact until 9 months and, only then, if they "pass" their strength/motion assessment. My twins have been diligent in their rehab and the first one - I will call her Thing 1 - will be having her first full-contact practice today, 10 months + 1 week post-surgery. She will be on limited minutes but structured to increase and cannot play any back-to-back games this spring.  The fatigue is when form breaks down and when form breaks down + muscles are tired is when the risk of reinjury increases (as he puts it, if she's at 30 mins, he wants her to feel like she can do 30 more as opposed to hitting a wall at 25). When she's out there, there is no limitation (other than time).  Thing 2 has her final strength/motion assessment in about a month and I assume a similar schedule.  Unfortunately for both girls, the spring season for their team is light and the games are mostly concentrated at the beginning so Thing 1 will get a few games and Thing 2 maybe only 1 at the back end. But we know they are stronger and we know they have been taught improved dynamics.


I agree that the different approaches makes it confusing. My kids ortho also specializes with children. He says her strength and knee stability is excellent. While I trust his decision, I'm going to see what the PT says today and go with the most cautious approach possible. She has her second strength test next week. My kid has club mates who returned at 6 months and had no reinjury and others who did reinjure the same ACL or tore the other. The GA showcase in June will be 9 and half months, Surf Cup will be 10 and a half months. The goal is to hopefully play a few minutes in each of those events.


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## dk_b (Mar 7, 2022)

VegasParent said:


> I agree that the different approaches makes it confusing. My kids ortho also specializes with children. He says her strength and knee stability is excellent. While I trust his decision, I'm going to see what the PT says today and go with the most cautious approach possible. She has her second strength test next week. My kid has club mates who returned at 6 months and had no reinjury and others who did reinjure the same ACL or tore the other. The GA showcase in June will be 9 and half months, Surf Cup will be 10 and a half months. The goal is to hopefully play a few minutes in each of those events.


I hear what you are saying and the rate of reinjury that seems consistent is about 30% for players who return prior to 9 months so 70% don't reinjure while the rate of reinjury drops to about 10% after 9 months (and stays there). In my kids' clearance process, they are including assessment of the non-injured leg so that the quad:hamstring ratio is in the "low risk" category for both legs.  I know kids who have reinjured the same leg (on in her first game back and right in front of the coach at the school to which she had committed (still verbal at that time) - he stood by her through both injuries/rehabs and she seems to be doing great) and kids who have torn the other.  And I now all of this is about risk mitigation since there is no such thing as "zero risk" and, ultimately, the risk profile that is acceptable to a given provider and that provider's patient (or patient's parents in the case of pediatrics) is variable.  My hope for all these girls - the ones who are rehabbing and the ones who never have had to - is that they don't have to go through it in the future.

(as I write this, I am on hold with insurance since the situation for both Thing 1 and Thing 2 is all jacked up as one was injured in a club training (US Club Soccer as 2dry insurance), one in a HS game (w/the HS's provider in 2dry) and, for both, their primary ins changed on July 1. What a shitshow)


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## Simisoccerfan (Mar 7, 2022)

I didn't make any decisions in my daughter's recovery process.  She turned 18 shortly after her surgery and all of the decisions were hers along with her doctor, PT Staff and college trainers and doctors once she reported to training camp.  She played her first collegiate minutes at 6 1/2 months which sounds crazy but everyone recovers differently.  I just paid the bills and did the worrying.  It's been 3 years now and I think it is just in the last few months that I have stopped worrying.


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## VegasParent (Mar 7, 2022)

Simisoccerfan said:


> I didn't make any decisions in my daughter's recovery process.  She turned 18 shortly after her surgery and all of the decisions were hers along with her doctor, PT Staff and college trainers and doctors once she reported to training camp.  She played her first collegiate minutes at 6 1/2 months which sounds crazy but everyone recovers differently.  I just paid the bills and did the worrying.  It's been 3 years now and I think it is just in the last few months that I have stopped worrying.


I envy you. I'm worried every time she comes down the stairs. But I stay positive and don't let her see me worried. She had a slight breakdown about a month ago. One of her friends in SoCal tore her ACL again in a high school game after just returning to play and another friend tore hers in a practice. Then watching the Super Bowl she saw Odell Beckham Jr tear his ACL again. I had just told her after he caught the first TD how he came back from the injury this season. Luckily she bounced back quickly and is looking forward to practicing. But she will be taking it slow.


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## Surf Zombie (Mar 7, 2022)

Thank you guys for the input. I’m in the parking lot at the PT office right now! Ugh. 

Mine will be at the 6 month mark in May and then will have about 4 months over the late spring/summer to get ready for her sophomore HS season.  From that perspective the timing is good. Will be about 3 weeks short of a year from the injury until her first game back (didn’t have surgery for 50 days after the injury).


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## Dubs (Mar 9, 2022)

Bottom line is... the longer they can wait the better.  Outcomes are definitely better if it's possible to wait til the one-year mark.


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## NorCalUSN (Jun 15, 2022)

Just wanted to follow up and see how folks on this thread are doing.  My daughter will be hitting her 9-month milestone this month.  With Ortho visit and "hopefully" final PT visit the following week.  It's been a journey.  I would like to take credit but my wife has been the motivator and guide the whole way for my daughter.  I have just been the sounding board and "frustration expression recipient" along the way.  I can't stress enough for the parents venturing to this thread how important communication of expectations and progress is with the Physical Therapist. If you are just starting this journey I would say try to find a PT that works best for you.  One that knows soccer and women soccer is a definite win.  My daughter again hopefully will be RTS in July but even then we are slowly wading in to playing time and events to not rush things. Wishing everyone on this thread good luck.


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## VegasParent (Jun 15, 2022)

NorCalUSN said:


> Just wanted to follow up and see how folks on this thread are doing.  My daughter will be hitting her 9-month milestone this month.  With Ortho visit and "hopefully" final PT visit the following week.  It's been a journey.  I would like to take credit but my wife has been the motivator and guide the whole way for my daughter.  I have just been the sounding board and "frustration expression recipient" along the way.  I can't stress enough for the parents venturing to this thread how important communication of expectations and progress is with the Physical Therapist. If you are just starting this journey I would say try to find a PT that works best for you.  One that knows soccer and women soccer is a definite win.  My daughter again hopefully will be RTS in July but even then we are slowly wading in to playing time and events to not rush things. Wishing everyone on this thread good luck.


My kid hit her 9 month post op yesterday. She was fully cleared by her PT 2 weeks ago to RTS and had a 5 minute cameo over Memorial Day weekend. She will slowly work her way back into games starting at the GA playoffs at the end of this month. No more than 10 minutes a half. Seeing Macario and Press go down with ACL tears isn't helping my stress level but my kid can't wait to play some meaningful minutes.


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## Gosocal (Jun 15, 2022)

13 months post op. Cleared at 9 months with 10 matches under the belt gradual mins up to 75-80 mins.  Feeling strong, no issues, physically or mentally. In retrospect, it feels like the operation and rehab were the easy parts. Getting match fit the hard part. Feel like she is 80% of her playing level pre injury. Patella graft and menincus work.


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## youthsportsuggghhhhgghh (Jun 15, 2022)

Simisoccerfan said:


> I didn't make any decisions in my daughter's recovery process.  She turned 18 shortly after her surgery and all of the decisions were hers along with her doctor, PT Staff and college trainers and doctors once she reported to training camp.  She played her first collegiate minutes at 6 1/2 months which sounds crazy but everyone recovers differently.  I just paid the bills and did the worrying.  It's been 3 years now and I think it is just in the last few months that I have stopped worrying.


A question I would have for this comment is -- how were the minutes tracked/managed as she returned to game action. What type of college did she attend -- big time sports school.....D3 high academic/low athletics school


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## youthsportsuggghhhhgghh (Jun 15, 2022)

I am assuming the 3.5-4 month timeframes are post surgery and not injury?  Injured in January and surgery in March -- The hope is to get some soccer action at the end of November/begin December and then basketball in January.  She is a rising junior and had gotten some notice for both sports just before the injury. She is doing some physical therapy through our insurance provider which is the old school bands and body weight exercises.  We were also referred to a sports medicine specialist and she really loves that fact the exercises are geared toward her specific sports.  She is also seeing other athletes (all ages) at different stages of recovery which is really good for her mentally.
We have been really lucky in that she has a great support group of teammates and classmates that haven't let her get down if somehting wasn't the way she thought it would be. Her coaches have also kept her involved mentally as she attends practices for both sports once a week.
Hope everyone on this thread does well and doesn't experience setbacks or issues!


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## oh canada (Jun 16, 2022)

Unfortunately, there are plenty of acl recovery role models to look to/recover with at the moment - Macario, Press, Kayla Sharples, Marta, Williams, Davidson, Watt, Nadim, etc.

NWSL owners should put their money together to fund a serious acl prevention research project at one of the UC schools. It's an epidemic with long term health implications. I would love to see _pro rata_ stats on female pro soccer acl tears v. NFL acl tears.


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## Simisoccerfan (Jun 16, 2022)

youthsportsuggghhhhgghh said:


> A question I would have for this comment is -- how were the minutes tracked/managed as she returned to game action. What type of college did she attend -- big time sports school.....D3 high academic/low athletics school


D1.  No idea how minutes were tracked since she goes to JMU in Virginia.  First game she got minutes was an away game at Duke with 21 minutes. I held my breath for all 21 of the minutes.


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## Surf Zombie (Jun 17, 2022)

Mine is 7 months post surgery and just got cleared to start cutting. Her Sophomore HS season runs early September to early November and then her ECNL season starts early December, so the timing is good.

She will use the summer to keep rehabbing and doing strength training and will be at 9 1/2 months post surgery right around her first HS game of the season. I’m planning to speak with the HS coach and limit her play time to maybe 15 minutes per half to start the season and build from there.

Sadly three of her club teammates tore their ACL’s this year. One during training and two during games. The third just had surgery this week.


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## Surf Zombie (Jun 17, 2022)

Gosocal said:


> 13 months post op. Cleared at 9 months with 10 matches under the belt gradual mins up to 75-80 mins.  Feeling strong, no issues, physically or mentally. In retrospect, it feels like the operation and rehab were the easy parts. Getting match fit the hard part. Feel like she is 80% of her playing level pre injury. Patella graft and menincus work.


What did you start her out at in terms of minutes per half of play time and what was the progression to get back to playing 70-80 minutes?


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## Surf Zombie (Jun 17, 2022)

youthsportsuggghhhhgghh said:


> I am assuming the 3.5-4 month timeframes are post surgery and not injury?  Injured in January and surgery in March -- The hope is to get some soccer action at the end of November/begin December and then basketball in January.  She is a rising junior and had gotten some notice for both sports just before the injury. She is doing some physical therapy through our insurance provider which is the old school bands and body weight exercises.  We were also referred to a sports medicine specialist and she really loves that fact the exercises are geared toward her specific sports.  She is also seeing other athletes (all ages) at different stages of recovery which is really good for her mentally.
> We have been really lucky in that she has a great support group of teammates and classmates that haven't let her get down if somehting wasn't the way she thought it would be. Her coaches have also kept her involved mentally as she attends practices for both sports once a week.
> Hope everyone on this thread does well and doesn't experience setbacks or issues!


Yes, the timeframe is post surgery. Mine tore her ACL first week of October but didn’t have surgery until mid November. Day of surgery is “Day 1” so to speak.


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## Gosocal (Jun 19, 2022)

Surf Zombie said:


> What did you start her out at in terms of minutes per half of play time and what was the progression to get back to playing 70-80 minutes?


I would say 10 min a half - sometimes 20 mins a half/sit the second the  first few matches. Middle matches 20 mins a half or full half then sit. Last couple of matches full half to 20-30 min. April to June time frame. Still maintain gym/pt regimen.


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## Surf Zombie (Jun 20, 2022)

Gosocal said:


> I would say 10 min a half - sometimes 20 mins a half/sit the second the  first few matches. Middle matches 20 mins a half or full half then sit. Last couple of matches full half to 20-30 min. April to June time frame. Still maintain gym/pt regimen.


Thanks! This is very helpful.


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## dk_b (Jun 20, 2022)

Surf Zombie said:


> Thanks! This is very helpful.


Our recs were pretty structured until the 1 yr anniversary of the surgery:  weekly increases starting at 22 mins, then 45, then 65, then 90, no back-to-back games (that is, no Sat/Sun) (before they were cleared for games, they were cleared for full contact at reduced time in practice, then that plus participation in scrimmages, then full everything at practice/scrimmages, then games).  At 1 yr, restrictions were off (I had asked Dr about summer camps for my 2d twin b/c our schedule was so sparse, she would get to 65 and not 90 before the season ended and he said after a year, she’s good). He continued to stress - and the PTs as well - that fatigue should ALWAYS be monitored b/c when fatigue sets in, form breaks down and when form breaks down, injury risk rises.  So even if they have played 90 in a prior weekend, they need to listen to their bodies so they don’t overdo it on a day when they are not 100% or a team is particularly physical (thus more exhausting) or its really hot, etc.

For those late to this thread (or just simply missing one of my original posts): my twins (now 16) tore their ACLs 8 weeks apart in Spring ‘21. Same surgeon for both but he recommended patellar for one and quad for the other.


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## VegasParent (Jun 21, 2022)

Gosocal said:


> I would say 10 min a half - sometimes 20 mins a half/sit the second the  first few matches. Middle matches 20 mins a half or full half then sit. Last couple of matches full half to 20-30 min. April to June time frame. Still maintain gym/pt regimen.


Is your kid playing with a brace? My kids Ortho recommends she plays with a brace until 2 years post op. Another kid in her club said her Ortho recommends no brace at all. The brace is clearly uncomfortable to play in for my kid so I'm wondering if I should look at other options.


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## youthsportsuggghhhhgghh (Jun 21, 2022)

VegasParent said:


> Is your kid playing with a brace? My kids Ortho recommends she plays with a brace until 2 years post op. Another kid in her club said her Ortho recommends no brace at all. The brace is clearly uncomfortable to play in for my kid so I'm wondering if I should look at other options.


good question -- Our Ortho and PT have both said she shouldn't/wouldn't need a brace when she is cleared to play. I would think that is what you would want when being cleared to play -- no need for a brace.


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## Surf Zombie (Jun 21, 2022)

VegasParent said:


> Is your kid playing with a brace? My kids Ortho recommends she plays with a brace until 2 years post op. Another kid in her club said her Ortho recommends no brace at all. The brace is clearly uncomfortable to play in for my kid so I'm wondering if I should look at other options.


My DD had surgery at Children’s Hospital in Boston. Even within the orthopedic department at that hospital there is a split amongst the surgeons on the brace/no brace recommendations. My DD’s surgeon says wear the brace for the first year returning to play. Her teammate, who had surgery with a different Dr. at the same hospital said the brace isn’t needed once she is cleared to return to play.

To me, it’s like watching a Supreme Court split decision. All brilliant jurists, but there are differences of opinion.


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## VegasParent (Jun 21, 2022)

Surf Zombie said:


> My DD had surgery at Children’s Hospital in Boston. Even within the orthopedic department at that hospital there is a split amongst the surgeons on the brace/no brace recommendations. My DD’s surgeon says wear the brace for the first year returning to play. Her teammate, who had surgery with a different Dr. at the same hospital said the brace isn’t needed once she is cleared to return to play.
> 
> To me, it’s like watching a Supreme Court split decision. All brilliant jurists, but there are differences of opinion.


This is what I have been noticing. Multiple kids in my DD's club have had ACL tears and after talking to the parents (we have all gone to different Dr's) we have all been given different return to play guidelines. The only thing that has been consistent is waiting until the 9 month mark. While I'm all for being cautious, 2 years post op with the brace seems quite long. I'll see what he says at her 1 year post op appointment and see if we need to make adjustments


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## Gosocal (Jun 21, 2022)

VegasParent said:


> Is your kid playing with a brace? My kids Ortho recommends she plays with a brace until 2 years post op. Another kid in her club said her Ortho recommends no brace at all. The brace is clearly uncomfortable to play in for my kid so I'm wondering if I should look at other options.


No brace. Insurance PT, Ortho and separate sports PT all agreed no brace. PT says no need for a reminder lol. Some truth to it I suppose.


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## soccerchaffeur (Jun 21, 2022)

My daughter is now 7 months post op and returned to training last week(no contact). Doc said the brace is unnecessary.


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## NorCalUSN (Jun 22, 2022)

VegasParent said:


> Is your kid playing with a brace? My kids Ortho recommends she plays with a brace until 2 years post op. Another kid in her club said her Ortho recommends no brace at all. The brace is clearly uncomfortable to play in for my kid so I'm wondering if I should look at other options.


Our Ortho saw benefits for some athletes but does not push it.  My daughter doesn't want it, She feels it is going to restrict her movement, speed agility etc and doesn't need the reminder.  A teammate is three years post op still wears one each athlete is different and should know what works for them.


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## Surf Zombie (Jul 18, 2022)

Surf Zombie said:


> My 2007 9th grader just tore her ACL in a game. Essentially half way through her HS season. Cleared a ball with her right foot and as she was bringing it back down slipped on the wet turf and her knee twisted awkwardly.
> 
> We are In the process of scheduling surgery. Will miss the rest of her HS season and probably all (most?) of her ECNL season which is early December-late May.
> 
> Anyone else been through it and have any tips on the recovery process? She made it from U8 until now without ever being injured, so it’s going to be a big adjustment I’m sure.


So my DD is 8 months post surgery this week and also has her return to play test with her surgeon in a couple days.

Crazy how fast it flew by, which was hard to imagine when the injury first happened. She starts her sophomore HS season in early September, so she is on track for that. Running, doing PT and strength work 5 days a week this summer. She said the hardest part (physically) was the first week after surgery and (mentally) watching her teammates play while she had to watch from the bench because she wanted to play so bad. 

Just wanted to say a quick thank you for all the great advice on this thread since my original post. I hope the rest of your DD’s are back in action and killing it.


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## NorCalUSN (Jul 20, 2022)

Echoing SurfZombie's post its nice being on the other side of the tunnel journey to recovery.  My daughter got cleared right at the end of last month, her club team is on a bit of a break but she is looking forward to Surf Cup this weekend. She could probably play a full 90 minutes right now but we are still asking the coach to throttle her time to 20 min's a half to make sure she is fit for it. I would love to take credit for my daughter's recovery but it's all her and the extraordinary work of my spouse who spent countless hours, driving to PhysTherapy, and one-on-one training with my daughter.  I was just the emotional cheerleader, admin and money guy.  Biggest thing to anyone coming into this thread with a daughter or son starting the process I would say is make sure your daughter/son's expectations are realistic, don't rush to a six month return to sport because "FAMOUS PLAYER X" did.  Put in the time, the homework and don't neglect physical fitness along the way so when you do get the RTS from your PhysTherapist you are physically ready not only injury leg ready.


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## anita (Jul 22, 2022)

Hi all, this my first time posting on here and unfortunately looking for a support community as we just found out my 14 year old son has an acl tear. We haven’t met with a knee surgeon yet but wondering if you have tips on OC surgeon or recommendations. Thanks


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## dk_b (Jul 22, 2022)

anita said:


> Hi all, this my first time posting on here and unfortunately looking for a support community as we just found out my 14 year old son has an acl tear. We haven’t met with a knee surgeon yet but wondering if you have tips on OC surgeon or recommendations. Thanks


I'm sorry to be reading this and I'm not in Orange County (I'm in Northern California) but whoever you see, my strong rec would be that she or he has a significant practice in pediatric orthopedics.  It's great if a surgeon works with this pro team or that college team but you want someone who works a lot with adolescents (athletes in particular if your son is aspiring to higher level play). A 14yo's physiology, mentality, etc is not the same as a 20yo college athlete's or a pro. All the best to your son (and to you as you have to navigate this as well)


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## anita (Jul 22, 2022)

Thanks for that. At this point trying to figure out how to stay proactive even though we need to wait for surgery until the swelling is down. Has anyone got advice on resources for strengthening the leg before surgery? It sound like this can help with the recovery process but want to make sure we do the right exercises.


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## supercell (Jul 22, 2022)

anita said:


> Thanks for that. At this point trying to figure out how to stay proactive even though we need to wait for surgery until the swelling is down. Has anyone got advice on resources for strengthening the leg before surgery? It sound like this can help with the recovery process but want to make sure we do the right exercises.


It's amazing how fast leg strength falls off after surgery. Our surgeon had DD doing PT before surgery to get the leg as strong as possible. Since the knee is weakened, you'll need to be careful to avoid injuring it further, so I recommend a professional PT guide you.


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## anita (Jul 23, 2022)

I have an appointment set up with PT for “prehab” on Monday so we are eager to get started with that.  As I am doing more research I am reading about the BEAR method for ACL repairs. Did anyone consider this option? It’s a pretty new way of helping the ACL repair itself and there are 5 pediatric orthopedic surgeons in socal that do this.  I’m not sure what type of procedure will be best for my son because he is still growing but will hopefully be able to speak to knee specialists next week.

I’m also wondering how did it is work out for your child to stay connected to the team? I’m wondering what to do as he is relatively new to this team and now he will miss all or most of the season. We plan to attend local games etc but not sure if there will be any point in going to practice?

It is encouraging to read everyone’s experiences because right now it feels like a mountain of losses between the start of the club season, missing surf cup and camps and then high school starting as well. We will try to take it one day at a time.


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## Red card (Jul 23, 2022)

anita said:


> I have an appointment set up with PT for “prehab” on Monday so we are eager to get started with that.  As I am doing more research I am reading about the BEAR method for ACL repairs. Did anyone consider this option? It’s a pretty new way of helping the ACL repair itself and there are 5 pediatric orthopedic surgeons in socal that do this.  I’m not sure what type of procedure will be best for my son because he is still growing but will hopefully be able to speak to knee specialists next week.
> 
> I’m also wondering how did it is work out for your child to stay connected to the team? I’m wondering what to do as he is relatively new to this team and now he will miss all or most of the season. We plan to attend local games etc but not sure if there will be any point in going to practice?
> 
> It is encouraging to read everyone’s experiences because right now it feels like a mountain of losses between the start of the club season, missing surf cup and camps and then high school starting as well. We will try to take it one day at a time.


My daughter did the Pre surgery rehab as soon as she was able to get around.  I think it helps.  I don't know what method is best she just went the traditional route for surgery.  She was doing post op rehab shortly after they really want them up and around when they can.

she was with her team for a few seasons so she had friends that checked in on her and with social media it was  much easier.  She just focused on the rehab and didn't go to practices but did attend a few games.   she took some privates prior to going back to limited practices. she is still out for a couple of months.

it is devastating at first but when the dust settles and you have a plan I think it eases some anxiety and then he can focus on rehab.  Follow a schedule and don't rush it.  My daughter is going into senior year so the timing was really bad.  She is missing all the tournaments where coaches are looking at kids. This too shall pass.  good luck


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## oh canada (Jul 23, 2022)

anita said:


> It is encouraging to read everyone’s experiences because right now it feels like a mountain of losses between the start of the club season, missing surf cup and camps and then high school starting as well. We will try to take it one day at a time.


College soccer recruiting is later for boys than girls, so you're timing is totally fine. He's 14...so, whether he's going into Fresh or Soph year, he'll still have Junior and Senior years to be recruited etc. That's the typical time for almost all boys college recruits to get started. No need to rush...just be back for next year's Surf Cup. Best to your son.


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## supercell (Jul 23, 2022)

anita said:


> I’m also wondering how did it is work out for your child to stay connected to the team? I’m wondering what to do as he is relatively new to this team and now he will miss all or most of the season. We plan to attend local games etc but not sure if there will be any point in going to practice?


My DD was super motivated and attended alot of practices. She would do all her rehab exercises on the sidelines. I actually think it was motivating for the healthy players to see her working so hard. And vice versa.


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## anita (Jul 24, 2022)

Thanks for the words of advice. Will keep you updated as we go through this process.


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## Surf Zombie (Jul 24, 2022)

supercell said:


> My DD was super motivated and attended alot of practices. She would do all her rehab exercises on the sidelines. I actually think it was motivating for the healthy players to see her working so hard. And vice versa.


Same. Mine has been with her team for 3 years and missed her entire club season after getting injured about 6 weeks prior to the start.  She really wanted to remain connected, so she attended 90% of the practices, games and tournaments. Her coach was great, keeping her busy during practices. As soon as she came off her crutches she was helping organize drills, shagging balls and just helping out in general. We joked that it was a “coaching internship” for her this year.


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## myself (Jul 25, 2022)

Curious, did anyone try a non-surgical route? E.g., rehab or stem cell treatment?


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## supercell (Jul 26, 2022)

myself said:


> Curious, did anyone try a non-surgical route? E.g., rehab or stem cell treatment?


Our DD was a so-called "coper" who was still high functioning even with a torn ACL. Our ortho told us that she could likely live a normal life without surgery, but not as a college athlete and to try was risking a much more significant injury. Her ACL was fully ruptured, and there is no natural recovery from that, although the knee can certainly be strengthened with rehab. I am not sure if partial tears would benefit from stem cell or other treatments.


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## anita (Jul 26, 2022)

We met two surgeons today and they each had very different recommendations which is a bit confusing. The issue is because he is just on the cusp of closing his growth plates but hasn’t yet. That means although a patellar tendon graft would be the best thing for his future ability to play and be active there is a tiny risk of interrupting growth. On the other hand a hamstring graft has a much higher risk of failing in the future and requiring a redo. I’m wondering if anyone considered a quad tendon repair?


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## dk_b (Jul 26, 2022)

anita said:


> We met two surgeons today and they each had very different recommendations which is a bit confusing. The issue is because he is just on the cusp of closing his growth plates but hasn’t yet. That means although a patellar tendon graft would be the best thing for his future ability to play and be active there is a tiny risk of interrupting growth. On the other hand a hamstring graft has a much higher risk of failing in the future and requiring a redo. I’m wondering if anyone considered a quad tendon repair?


My identical twin girls tore their right ACLs w/in 8 weeks of each other.  Twin 1 had patellar tendon and Twin 2 (whose growth plates were still slightly open) had quad tendon. Recovery has been pretty much the same for both.  Hamstring was never considered and our surgeon would only do that in a 2d repair.


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## Calikid (Aug 2, 2022)

After doing 2 months of research (I too read about the BEAR method for ACL repairs, but there is not enough data on long term results), and talking to many surgeons we decide to go with the quad tendon. It is a much stronger tendon and is also a good choice if the growth plates are still open. Studies show that the Patellar tendon often times leads to osteoarthritis down the line. Always keep in mind that a surgeon will not always recommend a tendon that is best for the child, but instead the one they are trained on. 

My kid went to every game, both home and away(caught rides), and almost all of the practices. Helped the coach set up and did the PT exercises on the sidelines during practices and was an assistant to the coach during the games. It worked out well.


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## anita (Aug 3, 2022)

Here in SoCal I am unable to find anyone who is routinely doing quad grafts in kids. We met with a pediatric ortho at UCLA yesterday who is strongly advising the hamstring graft with an IT band tenodesis which reduces the retear rate by 50%.   We are going to go with her advice at this point and although I’m worried about the risk of rupture in the future I don’t think I can take a chance on damaging growth plates.  We will likely do surgery in 3-4 weeks and will continue PT in the meantime so his knee is as strong as possible going into surgery.


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## anita (Sep 2, 2022)

My son had surgery yesterday and so far things have been gnarly. Surgery went well but he is in a lot of pain. For those who have been through this which postop day did things start to improve? We are icing, elevating and doing CPM. I’m hoping tomorrow is a little better.


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