# Player Cards



## lancer (May 17, 2018)

Like many, my DD switched clubs for next season.  After state cup, we began using her card from her old club to play with her new team.  Yesterday, we were contacted by her old club demanding we return the card.

My question, am I obligated to return it?


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## TangoCity (May 17, 2018)

They should not have given you the card.  After you leave a club the card is suppose to be destroyed by the Administrator (or Manager) from the old club.  The proper thing is to drop from the old club online then if you have a new club you get a new card through them or if you want to be a free agent and test the waters with different clubs then you apply for a Spring pass card from Cal South (for free).  You should not be using the old card once you left, but I know many managers do not know this so it is done.  You should give the card back and go through the correct procedures to get a new one.  If you don't give it back they could hold up your drop/release on Cal South.  Not sure what they could do/say if you told them you lost it though.


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## CaliKlines (May 17, 2018)

lancer said:


> Like many, my DD switched clubs for next season.  After state cup, we began using her card from her old club to play with her new team.  Yesterday, we were contacted by her old club demanding we return the card.
> 
> My question, am I obligated to return it?


http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/player-cards.14607/


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## GunninGopher (May 17, 2018)

Your new club registrar can get you one really quick. Wait until you get the new one then just ask the old club if a evidence of their card destroyed will satisfy them or just mail it back.


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## timbuck (May 17, 2018)

Why has this process not become automated yet?  There's gotta be an app that someone is working on.
1.  Cal-South can drag and drop players to new teams as needed.
2.  Referees have the app on their phone.  When they are assigned to games, they get access to both teams player cards.
3.  If a player gets hurt or carded - the referee puts it into the app.

People will argue - what if the referee forgets his phone?  What if the battery dies?  
The same question can be asked if they forget their watch, their flags or their game booklet. 

These silly plastic player cards are a joke.  How many referees really look at the birthdate or team affiliation on a card?  They look at the picture.  They see if the name matches the name on the match report.  Then they start the game.


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## younothat (May 17, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Why has this process not become automated yet?  There's gotta be an app that someone is working on.
> 1.  Cal-South can drag and drop players to new teams as needed.
> 2.  Referees have the app on their phone.  When they are assigned to games, they get access to both teams player cards.
> 3.  If a player gets hurt or carded - the referee puts it into the app.
> ...


Living in the 80's...

Relative age group (RAG) coming soon!  no need for those old school cards, each week players can receive their *Bio-scan RAG (BRag) score* that determines what group they play with that week. 

Each player gets Bio-scanned at the field each week or month at practice;   put in some stats;  height, weight, beep test, muscle mass, speed and produce the BRag score complete with unique bar code.
A good BRag score could allow you're young stud player to  play vs kids almost the same size....


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## LASTMAN14 (May 17, 2018)

GunninGopher said:


> Your new club registrar can get you one really quick. Wait until you get the new one then just ask the old club if a evidence of their card destroyed will satisfy them or just mail it back.


Just got a new player card for one of our new players inside of 24 hours from our registrar. And have the players old card to boot.


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## Not_that_Serious (May 17, 2018)

yep, agreed players are real antiquated. Admins, refs, coaches, managers should have an app to do this. sorry, person with the cards got in an accident on the freeway or had an emergency, "sorry, got have the cards".


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## GunninGopher (May 17, 2018)

In Presidio/SDDA you can check in without the cards. Not all referees know that. (or I'm wrong, but I've done it)


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## MWN (May 17, 2018)

Digital Player Cards is a feature of the Affinity System (used by Cal South and Presidio).
http://www.affinity-sports.com/interactive-digital-cards/

Presidio uses it.
Cal South does not yet use it because of some bugs/issues.


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## Surfref (May 17, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Why has this process not become automated yet?  There's gotta be an app that someone is working on.
> 1.  Cal-South can drag and drop players to new teams as needed.
> 2.  Referees have the app on their phone.  When they are assigned to games, they get access to both teams player cards.
> 3.  If a player gets hurt or carded - the referee puts it into the app.
> ...


I know several referees that have old school flip phones.  It would be a good idea if the manager had access to all of the cards on an app.  then if they forgot a or all cards they just hand the ref their phone and the ref has access to the player cards.


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## Not_that_Serious (May 17, 2018)

Surfref said:


> I know several referees that have old school flip phones.  It would be a good idea if the manager had access to all of the cards on an app.  then if they forgot a or all cards they just hand the ref their phone and the ref has access to the player cards.


At times Ive had to go to people's homes, jump fences, climb through windows and then drive cards out to location in order to get kids on the field. Ridiculous given available tech. Even if its not an APP, even a backend login via a browser. a ref can borrow someone's phone. if this was available Id lug my ipad around more.


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## Fact (May 17, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> At times Ive had to go to people's homes, jump fences, climb through windows and then drive cards out to location in order to get kids on the field. Ridiculous given available tech. Even if its not an APP, even a backend login via a browser. a ref can borrow someone's phone. if this was available Id lug my ipad around more.


Lol The good old days. Please include break window to get into house and drive 100 mph up the 405.


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## Not_that_Serious (May 17, 2018)

Fact said:


> Lol The good old days. Please include break window to get into house and drive 100 mph up the 405.


Haha. I know that feeling. Getting around the dogs can take some effort too.


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## Eagle33 (May 18, 2018)

Adult league in Laguna Niguel (Cal South affiliated) have been using digital reporting system for over year without any issues. Referees use app on their phone to check players in, report misconduct and score. App is nice and simple. 
Out of 3 referees there will be at least one with smart phone (don't worry Surfref) to use this system.
There is no reason why it's not done for the rest of Cal South teams.


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## timbuck (May 18, 2018)

MWN said:


> Digital Player Cards is a feature of the Affinity System (used by Cal South and Presidio).
> http://www.affinity-sports.com/interactive-digital-cards/
> 
> Presidio uses it.
> Cal South does not yet use it because of some bugs/issues.


Any idea what the bugs/issues are?


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## Coach_JimmyZ (May 18, 2018)

One time for a scdsl league game, our head coach was running late and he had the player cards. I spoke to the ref crew before the game and asked if they would check us in using digital cards. Ref called his supervisor and got the okay. I logged in, gave ref my phone, and he went thru the digital cards to check in the team. Worked great . When coach got to the game, we gave player cards to the AR and that was that. Definitely came in handy to have access to digital cards.


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## timbuck (May 18, 2018)

Where did you find digital cards at?  Our team manager has a picture of all of our cards on her phone.  But nothing official from the league.


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## Frank (May 18, 2018)

This past Fall we had game in Oxnard.  Realized I forgot cards as I pulled in to parking lot.  Can't drive 90 minutes home and get them in time for game.   Coast forfeited us even though we could log in to cal south and show pictures and everything.  Refs let us play a scrimmage so wasn't a complete waste of time.  I felt terrible though as there is a ton of pressure on Managers not to mess this up as you ruin a game for your team and families.

I totally support going electronic for league, CRL and State/National Cups. Not sure you can do it for tourneys with all the guest players.


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## Surfref (May 18, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> Adult league in Laguna Niguel (Cal South affiliated) have been using digital reporting system for over year without any issues. Referees use app on their phone to check players in, report misconduct and score. App is nice and simple.
> Out of 3 referees there will be at least one with smart phone (don't worry Surfref) to use this system.
> There is no reason why it's not done for the rest of Cal South teams.


I wish all of Cal South would use something like that app and maybe even develop an app for the Apple Watch so I can record yellow or red cards while still on the field.


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## 310 (May 18, 2018)

I've tried reaching out to various people over the years about putting together an updated system, unfortunately, it seems that many in the position to make these decisions are not finding the value or looking to improve this process.

The affinity system does have this feature, but from some of my initial impressions of their tech stack and architecture (surface impression), I don't think they would be prepared to handle the load that something like this would demand.

This shouldn't be so difficult, but we need to get the right people in a room to lay out the potentials. What everyone is asking for is not a difficult task, including surfref's watch idea (which I have had in my idea repository for a while now). We could even incorporate some advanced features with biometrics, which someone highlighted above.

If anyone has the contacts to get the ball rolling, I'd be more than happy to put together some items for discussion to get this moving.


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## timbuck (May 18, 2018)

I’m sure Cal-South has a lot of balls in the air. 
Does anyone know what their top priorities are?
Just saying “we need automated player cards” probably won’t get much attention. I’m sure they don’t care much about a team managers responsibilities. 
But if there are 3 or 4 things that they care about most, whoever presents automated player cards needs to tie in to those. 
Let’s say player safety, costs and players development are their main areas of focus. 
1.  How does this ensure player safety?  By enabling referees with up to date information, they can better ensure that the right players are on the field. 
And then provide an example where the current card system has failed player safety. 
2. Costs- this can be the tricky one. I don’t think it costs Cal South much to require teams to print and laminate cards. 
But can you tie revenue to it?  Either include advertising in the app for refs, team managers and coaches to see.  
3. Player Development-  bit of a reach here too- but by enabling referees to be better equipped, maybe we are able to get more referees to stay in the system. We certainly need a younger crop of refs out there.  Maybe making a fun referee app for game reports keeps a few more refs in the game.  More refs and better refs leads to better games being played. Which leads to better player development.


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## El Clasico (May 18, 2018)

I don't think that CalSouth really cares about any of the issues raised about.  I do think that they care a lot about money. This seems like a simple math equation to me.  Lets just say that they have about 170,000 registered players (from their website) and they each pay an average of $20 for their player card (averaged out as I think I recall rec cards being $15 as opposed to competitive cards at $25)
Simple math...
170,000 x 20 = 3,400,000
Now if those numbers are accurate and I am with cal south, it will be a cold day in hell before I give up $3,400,000 to make someone else's life a little easier.  Think of your interactions with CalSouth, do you feel like the person you dealt with cared about making you happy?


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## timbuck (May 18, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> I don't think that CalSouth really cares about any of the issues raised about.  I do think that they care a lot about money. This seems like a simple math equation to me.  Lets just say that they have about 170,000 registered players (from their website) and they each pay an average of $20 for their player card (averaged out as I think I recall rec cards being $15 as opposed to competitive cards at $25)
> Simple math...
> 170,000 x 20 = 3,400,000
> Now if those numbers are accurate and I am with cal south, it will be a cold day in hell before I give up $3,400,000 to make someone else's life a little easier.  Think of your interactions with CalSouth, do you feel like the person you dealt with cared about making you happy?


They could still charge that amount each year.  Tack it on to the per player cost.  Could probably charge more since it is a "high tech" solution.


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## jpeter (May 18, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> I don't think that CalSouth really cares about any of the issues raised about.  I do think that they care a lot about money. This seems like a simple math equation to me.  Lets just say that they have about 170,000 registered players (from their website) and they each pay an average of $20 for their player card (averaged out as I think I recall rec cards being $15 as opposed to competitive cards at $25)
> Simple math...
> 170,000 x 20 = 3,400,000
> Now if those numbers are accurate and I am with cal south, it will be a cold day in hell before I give up $3,400,000 to make someone else's life a little easier.  Think of your interactions with CalSouth, do you feel like the person you dealt with cared about making you happy?









If there making that kind of $ on cards to employ all those folks, might have to join the #resistance


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## GunninGopher (May 18, 2018)

The "Card" is actually registration. Players pay for insurance and administration with it.


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## Dargle (May 18, 2018)

GunninGopher said:


> The "Card" is actually registration. Players pay for insurance and administration with it.


The only people who potentially make even a little bit of money off the fact that you have a laminated card rather than a "e-card" are the club registrars, if your club uses a "professional" registrar (who is either paid by the club or who performs the service for multiple clubs for a fee) rather than a volunteer parent in the club.  Registrars often charge the club something like $1 per card to laminate and issue, which probably is a little bit of a markup from the cost of equipment/materials/time, although it's certainly not a big deal that anyone is getting rich doing.


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## coachrefparent (May 19, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Any idea what the bugs/issues are?





timbuck said:


> Where did you find digital cards at?  Our team manager has a picture of all of our cards on her phone.  But nothing official from the league.





Surfref said:


> I wish all of Cal South would use something like that app and maybe even develop an app for the Apple Watch so I can record yellow or red cards while still on the field.


The biggest problem is that the system is web based. So, there is no way to cache/save a match to your phone. I have been to many fields where data coverage is non-existent or spotty and slow. The site has a bit of graphics and the card photos, so it requires a fast connection, and becomes unusable otherwise.

Here's the link:
https://cysa.affinitysoccer.com/m/pass/index.aspx

You can add cards through the system, as well as the score. 
Here's a general description of the system: http://www.affinity-sports.com/interactive-digital-cards/


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## MWN (May 20, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> The biggest problem is that the system is web based. So, there is no way to cache/save a match to your phone. I have been to many fields where data coverage is non-existent or spotty and slow. The site has a bit of graphics and the card photos, so it requires a fast connection, and becomes unusable otherwise.
> 
> Here's the link:
> https://cysa.affinitysoccer.com/m/pass/index.aspx
> ...


The affinity system is also subject to bouts of unavailability, which may or may not be the result of connection issues on the user side.  I have seen users curse the inability to load certain data to the system with good connections, so I'm not sure which side its on.  I suppose if there were a system that automatically cached the data of the assigned games (while on WIFI) that might help, but Cal South needs a method that is infallible, given the status of State Cup.  I also now that Presidio's game sheet puts images of the players on the game sheet as an additional backup, but those images are so tiny its hard to say if they are usable.


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## coachrefparent (May 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> The affinity system is also subject to bouts of unavailability, which may or may not be the result of connection issues on the user side.  I have seen users curse the inability to load certain data to the system with good connections, so I'm not sure which side its on.  I suppose if there were a system that automatically cached the data of the assigned games (while on WIFI) that might help, but Cal South needs a method that is infallible, given the status of State Cup.  I also now that Presidio's game sheet puts images of the players on the game sheet as an additional backup, but those images are so tiny its hard to say if they are usable.


Most of the pictures are so outdated, they are worthless. There were older boys playing in a tounament but no one could prove it because the pictures were of grade school kids. 

Cal South needs to wipe the photos out every year, and require that they be retaken. And a rule if the referee  can't  tell its you on your card, then you don't play.


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