# High School soccer in San Diego.



## NumberTen (Nov 16, 2017)

With the new high school season underway, are they any tips for kids playing in the San Diego section?  What different down here?  As a newbie to high school, it all is very confusing.


----------



## outside! (Nov 16, 2017)

NumberTen said:


> With the new high school season underway, are they any tips for kids playing in the San Diego section?  What different down here?  As a newbie to high school, it all is very confusing.


Behave around Surfref. He does not take any crap.


----------



## baldref (Nov 16, 2017)

outside! said:


> Behave around Surfref. He does not take any crap.


I go to games just to heckle him. I wear a wig so he doesn't know it's me.


----------



## baldref (Nov 16, 2017)

high school soccer is like a box of chocolates. you never know what you'll get. from good to horrible and anything in between.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Nov 16, 2017)

baldref said:


> I go to games just to heckle him. I wear a wig so he doesn't know it's me.


Not necessary, all refs are blind.


----------



## baldref (Nov 16, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Not necessary, all refs are blind.


someone read this for me please....


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Nov 16, 2017)

baldref said:


> someone read this for me please....


Just messing with you, I love all refs.


----------



## outside! (Nov 16, 2017)

baldref said:


> I go to games just to heckle him. I wear a wig so he doesn't know it's me.


I've found that at girl's HS games, you can generally relax and let the HS boys harass the ref.


----------



## baldref (Nov 16, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Just messing with you, I love all refs.


all refs love you too.


----------



## Surfref (Nov 16, 2017)

A lot of very direct soccer.  Very good players playing with and against very novice players.  Some great coaches and some really bad coaches.  Most of the fields are good artificial turf except for the crappy grass/weed fields of the South Bay.  Some really bad defensive players that will play very dirty against the good players.  Some of these games are played in cold weather especially in January and February at Steele Canyon and El Cap.  Get a small portable propane heater.  It should be interesting on the girls side this year with the best players playing DA and not HS.  Practices can be anywhere from productive to a waste of time.  Practices and games are 5-6 days a week so give your kid the weekends off to hang with friends and family.

Dual Referee system (2 refs on the field with whistles) which creates some blind spots for the refs. The schools with a little more money and better teams will pay for three referee system.


----------



## espola (Nov 17, 2017)

Surfref said:


> A lot of very direct soccer.  Very good players playing with and against very novice players.  Some great coaches and some really bad coaches.  Most of the fields are good artificial turf except for the crappy grass/weed fields of the South Bay.  Some really bad defensive players that will play very dirty against the good players.  Some of these games are played in cold weather especially in January and February at Steele Canyon and El Cap.  Get a small portable propane heater.  It should be interesting on the girls side this year with the best players playing DA and not HS.  Practices can be anywhere from productive to a waste of time.  Practices and games are 5-6 days a week so give your kid the weekends off to hang with friends and family.
> 
> Dual Referee system (2 refs on the field with whistles) which creates some blind spots for the refs. The schools with a little more money and better teams will pay for three referee system.


The obvious mark of a good program is three referees at the games.  Another is the existence of a full Freshman team, the numbers of which have been dwindling lately, even at the bigger high schools.


----------



## outside! (Nov 17, 2017)

espola said:


> The obvious mark of a good program is three referees at the games.  Another is the existence of a full Freshman team, the numbers of which have been dwindling lately, even at the bigger high schools.


UC High just added freshman teams for both girls and boys this year.


----------



## Round (Nov 17, 2017)

espola said:


> The obvious mark of a good program is three referees at the games.  Another is the existence of a full Freshman team, the numbers of which have been dwindling lately, even at the bigger high schools.


I guess it's hard for any school to have a freshman team if there is no one to play.  

Not as many girls opting out of high school soccer than I expected.  May be a sign, maybe not.


----------



## Mom Taxi (Nov 18, 2017)

Can anyone point me in the right direction regarding the CIF (specifically SDS) rules governing a trying out for a winter sport (soccer) while still competing in a Fall sport? We were told that dd can't try out and she's done with XC, so she's not been able to try out for soccer yet, but we were told that she will be given the same opportunity to try out as everyone else. However, she still has another week of XC, so I decided to research the actual rules pertaining to this, and I skimmed through the green book and the only reference I found was pertaining to the number of hours a day and athlete may participate in overlapping sports. Can anyone offer any insight? Thanks!


----------



## full90 (Nov 30, 2017)

That is not a rule. She can tryout for a hs team while competing on another team. Whoever told you that is crazy. A ton of my friend's kids all tried out for soccer while still running XC, playing field hockey, etc.


----------



## Surfref (Nov 30, 2017)

espola said:


> The obvious mark of a good program is three referees at the games.  Another is the existence of a full Freshman team, the numbers of which have been dwindling lately, even at the bigger high schools.


When I was talking to the boys coaches last night before the game the subject of freshman teams came up.  One coach said he had almost 200 boys at tryouts, but only had enough money to fund JV and varsity teams.  Both coaches said that without fundraising they would not be able to afford to have a JV team.  One coach said he is not playing JV games in December so he has enough money to cover the entire season.  A coach went over HS costs with me a couple years ago.  Their budget for a 30 game season gets eaten up fast with coaches salary $500-$1500 a month (4 months at least $3000 average for bigger school varsity), Referee fees for season (16 home games: 2-man $2000  3-man  $3800), misc expenses like uniforms, buses, etc $1000-$2000.  I know at least one varsity coach that pays his JV coach out of his varsity salary and another small school coach who was a volunteer.  From what I have heard, the only fully funded programs are at the private schools where they require the players to pay to play.


----------



## outside! (Nov 30, 2017)

Surfref said:


> When I was talking to the boys coaches last night before the game the subject of freshman teams came up.  One coach said he had almost 200 boys at tryouts, but only had enough money to fund JV and varsity teams.  Both coaches said that without fundraising they would not be able to afford to have a JV team.  One coach said he is not playing JV games in December so he has enough money to cover the entire season.  A coach went over HS costs with me a couple years ago.  Their budget for a 30 game season gets eaten up fast with coaches salary $500-$1500 a month (4 months at least $3000 average for bigger school varsity), Referee fees for season (16 home games: 2-man $2000  3-man  $3800), misc expenses like uniforms, buses, etc $1000-$2000.  I know at least one varsity coach that pays his JV coach out of his varsity salary and another small school coach who was a volunteer.  From what I have heard, the only fully funded programs are at the private schools where they require the players to pay to play.


I wonder how much the football coaches make. I will bet it is multiples of what the girls soccer coaches make.


----------



## NumberTen (Dec 1, 2017)

Does anyone know the schedule for the Francis Parker Cup tournament this weekend?  I can't find a schedule or brackets anywhere.


----------



## MWN (Dec 1, 2017)

outside! said:


> I wonder how much the football coaches make. I will bet it is multiples of what the girls soccer coaches make.


In most school districts its not multiples, rather about 20% more, which is in recognition of the longer season.  For example, in my school district, this is the stipend schedule: http://tvusd-ca.schoolloop.com/file/1253164087356/1414654745388/4309417539037828215.pdf

Note, the stipend schedule is generally a public document somewhere on your school district website.

This is typical for California schools.  Boys and Girls soccer coaches are paid the same.  The payment of coaches in high school sports is not tied to revenue, rather, budget.  Football tends to be the only revenue generating sport at the high school level, with almost all of the revenue getting driven back into the program.

What makes high school sports a little different is that existing teachers are given preference over outside coaches, which is why we often seen good club coaches losing out to the biology teacher that thinks they can coach soccer now that they have their newly minted E-License after coaching the U12 Rec team their daughter plays on.


----------



## outside! (Dec 1, 2017)

MWN said:


> In most school districts its not multiples, rather about 20% more, which is in recognition of the longer season.  For example, in my school district, this is the stipend schedule: http://tvusd-ca.schoolloop.com/file/1253164087356/1414654745388/4309417539037828215.pdf
> 
> Note, the stipend schedule is generally a public document somewhere on your school district website.
> 
> ...


Thanks MWN. Your explanation leads to the next question. Why is the football season longer than the soccer season? I suspect it is because back in the day when high school AD's could no longer ignore soccer, they put it where ever they could fit it on the calendar. I am certain they did not make any effort to make sure that the female soccer players had the same opportunities as the male football players with regards to publicity or recruiting. The ONLY reason soccer for females became a HS sport was Title IX. Another issue, I have yet to see a high school soccer field that does not negatively impact the game due to it being too small (Coronado is the worst I have seen being only 100 yds x ~65 yds).


----------



## Surfref (Dec 1, 2017)

outside! said:


> Thanks MWN. Your explanation leads to the next question. Why is the football season longer than the soccer season? I suspect it is because back in the day when high school AD's could no longer ignore soccer, they put it where ever they could fit it on the calendar. I am certain they did not make any effort to make sure that the female soccer players had the same opportunities as the male football players with regards to publicity or recruiting. The ONLY reason soccer for females became a HS sport was Title IX. Another issue, I have yet to see a high school soccer field that does not negatively impact the game due to it being too small (Coronado is the worst I have seen being only 100 yds x ~65 yds).


I like Coronado’s fields.  Short and narrow means less running.  F Parker has a new turf field and it is big.  Their field used to be long (120 yards) and narrow, but this new is just as long but a lot wider.  A rough estimate would be 70 yards wide.  By the HS rules, fields can be 100-120 yards long by  55-80 yards wide.  Those very narrow  and short fields really suck and usually cause more fouls since the players cannot spread out and most play is direct.  Christian HS has one of those short and narrow fields.


----------



## Fact (Jan 18, 2018)

Does anyone have comments regarding how DA has impacted schools?   Any powerhouse in the Open Division, I or II really now belong in III or IV?


----------



## coachsamy (Jan 19, 2018)

Fact said:


> Does anyone have comments regarding how DA has impacted schools?   Any powerhouse in the Open Division, I or II really now belong in III or IV?


I know a couple girls that are playing both. There is a lot of talent in the San Diego county for the DA to make that huge of an impact in the powerhouses.


----------



## Fact (Jan 19, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> I know a couple girls that are playing both. There is a lot of talent in the San Diego county for the DA to make that huge of an impact in the powerhouses.


What schools are taking the biggest hit from DA?


----------



## espola (Jan 19, 2018)

Fact said:


> What schools are taking the biggest hit from DA?


Because of the exemptions allowed for players who are attending private schools on scholarship, one would expect that those schools would be not affected at all.


----------



## Fact (Jan 19, 2018)

espola said:


> Because of the exemptions allowed for players who are attending private schools on scholarship, one would expect that those schools would be not affected at all.


Are Cathedral San Diego DA girls playing?  Not sure the Surf coach would want them to eventhough it would be a direct benefit to her.
What about the public schools?  I was thinking the South Bay schools would close the gap with North County schools who probably have a higher percentage of DA players


----------



## Kicknit22 (Jan 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> Are Cathedral San Diego DA girls playing?  Not sure the Surf coach would want them to eventhough it would be a direct benefit to her.
> What about the public schools?  I was thinking the South Bay schools would close the gap with North County schools who probably have a higher percentage of DA players


Yes. DA players are playing for Cathedral.


----------



## espola (Jan 20, 2018)

Kicknit22 said:


> Yes. DA players are playing for Cathedral.


Money talks.


----------



## OBkicks (Jan 20, 2018)

Kicknit22 said:


> Yes. DA players are playing for Cathedral.


DA players are not playing for Cathedral. They may have been practicing between Nov. 17 and today (1/20) as the DA was in Holiday hiatus. But they are not rostered and did not play in any games this season.


----------



## espola (Jan 20, 2018)

OBkicks said:


> DA players are not playing for Cathedral. They may have been practicing between Nov. 17 and today (1/20) as the DA was in Holiday hiatus. But they are not rostered and did not play in any games this season.


You realize, of course, that Seniors who have already found a college connection have nothing to lose by playing high school.


----------



## OBkicks (Jan 20, 2018)

espola said:


> You realize, of course, that Seniors who have already found a college connection have nothing to lose by playing high school.


Very true. And surprisingly there are many DA kids that really wanted to play HS but were unable to for several reasons that I heard. Some college coaches of committed kids required them to stay in the DA. I even heard (and not sure how true or realistic, or even permissible this would be) that kids scholarships were threatened if they opted out of DA for HS. And then of course, there were kids riddled with guilt by DA coaches that really wanted to play HS. 

Having stated that, I am also aware of several (maybe there are more) kids who left the DA to play the HS season entirely or at least after the Dec games in FL.  All of these kids were from Albion. They all hated it and wouldn’t continue to pass up there Senior years (and a couple of Juniors) in HS. Most notably at Point Loma and OLP. 

I should also specify that my comments are only regarding girls. I’m not too privy on the boys side regarding DA, and that has been in place for over a decade now. Not as much drama.


----------



## espola (Jan 20, 2018)

OBkicks said:


> Very true. And surprisingly there are many DA kids that really wanted to play HS but were unable to for several reasons that I heard. Some college coaches of committed kids required them to stay in the DA. I even heard (and not sure how true or realistic, or even permissible this would be) that kids scholarships were threatened if they opted out of DA for HS. And then of course, there were kids riddled with guilt by DA coaches that really wanted to play HS.
> 
> Having stated that, I am also aware of several (maybe there are more) kids who left the DA to play the HS season entirely or at least after the Dec games in FL.  All of these kids were from Albion. They all hated it and wouldn’t continue to pass up there Senior years (and a couple of Juniors) in HS. Most notably at Point Loma and OLP.
> 
> I should also specify that my comments are only regarding girls. I’m not too privy on the boys side regarding DA, and that has been in place for over a decade now. Not as much drama.


The boys side has bee riddled with DA defectors since they started enforcing the high school restriction years ago.  

I find it amusing that DA on the girls side has so much power since they have no track record.


----------



## LadiesMan217 (Jan 20, 2018)

OBkicks said:


> Very true. And surprisingly there are many DA kids that really wanted to play HS but were unable to for several reasons that I heard. Some college coaches of committed kids required them to stay in the DA. I even heard (and not sure how true or realistic, or even permissible this would be) that kids scholarships were threatened if they opted out of DA for HS. And then of course, there were kids riddled with guilt by DA coaches that really wanted to play HS.
> 
> Having stated that, I am also aware of several (maybe there are more) kids who left the DA to play the HS season entirely or at least after the Dec games in FL.  All of these kids were from Albion. They all hated it and wouldn’t continue to pass up there Senior years (and a couple of Juniors) in HS. Most notably at Point Loma and OLP.
> 
> I should also specify that my comments are only regarding girls. I’m not too privy on the boys side regarding DA, and that has been in place for over a decade now. Not as much drama.


Of course they hated it - typically played less than 1/3 the game - probably didn't really belong anyways.


----------



## OBkicks (Jan 20, 2018)

LadiesMan217 said:


> Of course they hated it - typically played less than 1/3 the game - probably didn't really belong anyways.


Severl of them are/were 90 minute players, a few would split games soem Times. Always on the Roster and played in nearly every game. Look at the Albion 00/99 Roster and figure out who. Ask Albion if they belonged? I’m not sure Albion belongs in the DA really???


----------



## LadiesMan217 (Jan 20, 2018)

OBkicks said:


> Severl of them are/were 90 minute players, a few would split games soem Times. Always on the Roster and played in nearly every game. Look at the Albion 00/99 Roster and figure out who. Ask Albion if they belonged? I’m not sure Albion belongs in the DA really???


Which one was a 90 minute player that left Albion for good?


----------



## LadiesMan217 (Jan 20, 2018)

LadiesMan217 said:


> Which one was a 90 minute player that left Albion for good? Was talking about the girls that LEFT the team.


----------



## OBkicks (Jan 20, 2018)

LadiesMan217 said:


> Which one was a 90 minute player that left Albion for good?


Well perhaps I may have misquoted and forgive me if I did. What I think I stated was that they left for the entire HS season. Perhaps they will return (if the club allows it) in March when HS ends and CIF/State playoffs end. I’m not sure if putting a youth players name in a forum thread is wise so I won’t. Here’s the link to their roster. I gave the schools where I know for sure girls are playing the entire HS season. 

http://albn.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=3943500

I would imagine that maybe other players left because of the reasons you stated. I would agree with that statement as well. There are many players that are in the DA that probably do not belong. Another reason why it is all in question I would guess? However, this is not the case with the players and teams I’m referring to. But again, I agree with your statement.


----------



## Fact (Jan 20, 2018)

OBkicks said:


> Well perhaps I may have misquoted and forgive me if I did. What I think I stated was that they left for the entire HS season. Perhaps they will return (if the club allows it) in March when HS ends and CIF/State playoffs end. I’m not sure if putting a youth players name in a forum thread is wise so I won’t. Here’s the link to their roster. I gave the schools where I know for sure girls are playing the entire HS season.
> 
> http://albn.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=3943500
> 
> I would imagine that maybe other players left because of the reasons you stated. I would agree with that statement as well. There are many players that are in the DA that probably do not belong. Another reason why it is all in question I would guess? However, this is not the case with the players and teams I’m referring to. But again, I agree with your statement.


OB is right.  Girls on the list are on the DA roster and high school roster as well.  I don't remember this much drama with boys DA.  Seemed like there was always a way for them to quit the DA team and then rejoin after high school, including at the public schools.


----------



## LadiesMan217 (Jan 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> OB is right.  Girls on the list are on the DA roster and high school roster as well.  I don't remember this much drama with boys DA.  Seemed like there was always a way for them to quit the DA team and then rejoin after high school, including at the public schools.


Of course there are. What drama are you referring to? The only drama I have seen here are from people without kids on DA.


----------



## Kicknit22 (Jan 20, 2018)

OBkicks said:


> DA players are not playing for Cathedral. They may have been practicing between Nov. 17 and today (1/20) as the DA was in Holiday hiatus. But they are not rostered and did not play in any games this season.


----------



## Kicknit22 (Jan 20, 2018)

OBkicks said:


> DA players are not playing for Cathedral. They may have been practicing between Nov. 17 and today (1/20) as the DA was in Holiday hiatus. But they are not rostered and did not play in any games this season.


Why would you say they are not rostered or played in any games?  I know at least one that is and has played 10 games.


----------



## Fact (Jan 20, 2018)

LadiesMan217 said:


> Of course there are. What drama are you referring to? The only drama I have seen here are from people without kids on DA.


All the dramatic whinning that DA is not fair because it does not allow you to play high school.  Every boys family I know figured a way around the system or just accepted it.


----------



## OBkicks (Jan 21, 2018)

Kicknit22 said:


> Why would you say they are not rostered or played in any games?  I know at least one that is and has played 10 games.


Well if that is the case, then I was unaware. Apologies. From my understanding, all of the DA players I was familiar with were not playing.


----------



## Striker17 (Jan 21, 2018)

I am glad @Fact pointed this out. I have yet to see a girl who wanted to play who didn't. Seems to me a whole bunch of fuss about nothing. Three I know  are playing high school and all on high ranking DA teams. None are on scholarship, all from well to do families, all got waivers. Seems to me getting the waiver is a whole lot easier than they wanted us to know. Apparently we have until 2021 season until "it's enforced" according to everyone I have spoken to. 
I watched a lot this season because i heard so much hand wringing about it. At the end of the day all the girls who were going to quit DA because they wanted to play high school realized they can do it and so opted to continue.
A mom I know brought up an interesting point- she said she wished that girls who wanted to get the waiver had to disclose this fact as she felt it was important in terms of roster size to know. I think that's reasonable.


----------



## Fact (Feb 6, 2018)

With playoffs looming, any surprises.  Teams better than expected or worse?  And do you think at least with the public schools, DA has impacted them?


----------



## Surfref (Feb 6, 2018)

Fact said:


> With playoffs looming, any surprises.  Teams better than expected or worse?  And do you think at least with the public schools, DA has impacted them?


 I have noticed some of the normal girls powerhouse schools have teams that are not doing that well or just look normal.  All of the coaches of these schools that I have talked with mentioned the missing DA players have had an impact.  It will be nice to see some new schools in the playoffs.  The one thing I have really noticed, at least in the games I referee, is the play is a lot cleaner for both boys and girls than in the past.  I have issued about 70 percent less yellow cards and only one red card. I have seen no outright dirty players like in years past and no major injuries.


----------



## outside! (Feb 6, 2018)

I saw a game with three straight red cards. All of them for cussing.


----------



## espola (Feb 6, 2018)

Fact said:


> With playoffs looming, any surprises.  Teams better than expected or worse?  And do you think at least with the public schools, DA has impacted them?


Division 1 teams are all guaranteed playoff spots, with top 8 in Open Division created just for playoffs.  

Teams are selected according to Power Rankings, viewable here --

http://www.cifsds.org/power-rankings.html

The webpage is a little quirky and frustrating to use, but all the info is there.


----------



## broshark (Feb 6, 2018)

So when Cathedral can't play their best recruits, er, players, because of DA they're not as good?  Who would have guessed.


----------



## outside! (Feb 6, 2018)

espola said:


> The webpage is a little quirky and frustrating to use, but all the info is there.


That sounds like a overly kind assessment of CIF SD, except the info part.


----------



## NumberTen (Feb 6, 2018)

outside! said:


> I saw a game with three straight red cards. All of them for cussing.


75% of all yellow cards that I have seen this year have been for talking back to the ref.


----------



## espola (Feb 6, 2018)

outside! said:


> That sounds like a overly kind assessment of CIF SD, except the info part.


First, make sure you have the settings right (year, sport, division).  Then always open in a new tab because going back often doesn't go what you think it will.


----------



## GKDad65 (Feb 6, 2018)

NumberTen said:


> 75% of all yellow cards that I have seen this year have been for talking back to the ref.


High school "refs" are a sensitive bunch.  They like the game to be about them, all two of them half the time.
I'll be glad when it's over.


----------



## outside! (Feb 6, 2018)

espola said:


> First, make sure you have the settings right (year, sport, division).  Then always open in a new tab because going back often doesn't go what you think it will.


I meant that calling CIFSD "quirky and frustrating" is too nice.


----------



## espola (Feb 6, 2018)

outside! said:


> I meant that calling CIFSD "quirky and frustrating" is too nice.


Yeah, I can see your point.  Since the new guy took over, competitiveness has been emphasized, leading to the new division and playoff formats.  But you still get teams who have a bad year and are 1-14-1 in Div 1.


----------



## Surfref (Feb 6, 2018)

NumberTen said:


> 75% of all yellow cards that I have seen this year have been for talking back to the ref.


or profanity.


----------



## Surfref (Feb 6, 2018)

espola said:


> First, make sure you have the settings right (year, sport, division).  Then always open in a new tab because going back often doesn't go what you think it will.


I was at Poway a couple weeks ago and they told me you moved up north.  Enjoy the liberal north.


----------



## Surfref (Feb 6, 2018)

GKDad65 said:


> High school "refs" are a sensitive bunch.  They like the game to be about them, all two of them half the time.
> I'll be glad when it's over.


We just have a lower level of tolerance for dissent since it is a school sport.  That is why profanity, even minor profanity, is punished in HS soccer.


----------



## espola (Feb 6, 2018)

Surfref said:


> I was at Poway a couple weeks ago and they told me you moved up north.  Enjoy the liberal north.


I moved about 5 miles north.  My son moved to Sacramento.


----------



## outside! (Feb 6, 2018)

espola said:


> Yeah, I can see your point.  Since the new guy took over, competitiveness has been emphasized, leading to the new division and playoff formats.  But you still get teams who have a bad year and are 1-14-1 in Div 1.


And you still have the asinine ID camp regulations that violate Title IX.


----------



## Surfref (Feb 6, 2018)

espola said:


> I moved about 5 miles north.  My son moved to Sacramento.


The coach told me you moved to Sac Town.


----------



## Monkey (Feb 7, 2018)

Surfref said:


> The coach told me you moved to Sac Town.


Wishful thinking.


----------



## Fact (Feb 7, 2018)

Surfref said:


> I have noticed some of the normal girls powerhouse schools have teams that are not doing that well or just look normal.  All of the coaches of these schools that I have talked with mentioned the missing DA players have had an impact.  It will be nice to see some new schools in the playoffs.  The one thing I have really noticed, at least in the games I referee, is the play is a lot cleaner for both boys and girls than in the past.  I have issued about 70 percent less yellow cards and only one red card. I have seen no outright dirty players like in years past and no major injuries.


A couple comments
1.  The powerhouse schools that are not doing as well - are these both public and private schools?
2.  I would have thought that there would be more cards.  Less skilled players=more hacks?


----------



## Surfref (Feb 7, 2018)

Fact said:


> A couple comments
> 1.  The powerhouse schools that are not doing as well - are these both public and private schools?
> 2.  I would have thought that there would be more cards.  Less skilled players=more hacks?


Both public and private.  As for the cards, that is what I thought also.  It might be because the skill level of all players is closer.  You don't have those superstars that the less skilled defenders have to get physical to stop them.  Most coaches have been really good at controlling their players.


----------



## CopaMundial (Feb 7, 2018)

Surfref said:


> Both public and private.  As for the cards, that is what I thought also.  It might be because the skill level of all players is closer.  You don't have those superstars that the less skilled defenders have to get physical to stop them.  Most coaches have been really good at controlling their players.


For the most part, refs have done a good job controlling the game. Also, defenses this year have been more solid than in the past, but that might be because only a few teams have major forwards that can cause much havoc and only a few teams with lots of speed. My DD is complaining that refs are calling the headers wayyyyy too tight and impacting the fun of the game. Since she's good in the air and gets over most players by quite a bit, this is frustrating. Every time she is slightly over a player, they call a foul. Something that would never or very rarely be considered a foul in ECNL. But also, not many of the girls are really challenging for headers the way they would in club. HS is not ECNL or DA level, but some schools, players and coaches have put together some decent squads and style. Will be interesting to see how CIF goes with the rules of who's in and out and who will play who and who has what points. I'm so confused!!!

But, overall, haven't seen too much maliciousness during league. Much more scratching and jersey pulling that club, that's about it. DD is scratched every game, and big ones too. But that's better than late tackles. Only once was she punched in the back, but the other player did get a card and did apologize after the game. Hope it stays civil this second half. We lost one player to concussion and one to clavicle break, but both are back. Just want the girls to have fun and stay healthy, that is all.


----------



## Surfref (Feb 8, 2018)

CopaMundial said:


> .......My DD is complaining that refs are calling the headers wayyyyy too tight and impacting the fun of the game. Since she's good in the air and gets over most players by quite a bit, this is frustrating. Every time she is slightly over a player, they call a foul. Something that would never or very rarely be considered a foul in ECNL. But also, not many of the girls are really challenging for headers the way they would in club.....


I would agree with you about the headers and also note that there are more push calls against the defender pushing the player from behind in the back while they are in the air.  The answer to why this occurs is an easy one.  The referees see the play from a different angle when the dual system (2 referee) is used.  The referee will often see the players more from the side instead of behind like in the three referee system.  I definitely catch more of the pushing from behind fouls and headers where the player goes over the top of the other player.  The head snapping back and forward (push from behind) and the player being bent/pushed forward (header over the player) are more noticeable in the dual system.  In the three referee system the AR would usually see these types of fouls and most AR's will only call the more serious infractions.  In the dual system both referees have whistles so the fouls are more likely to be called.


----------



## whatever (Feb 8, 2018)

TP/CCA game last night - seemed like the ref crew was missing a lot of calls, more than normal. Near the end of the game, both head coaches were, uh, voicing their displeasure with the ref, and each one received a yellow card.  Also one of the TP players got a yellow card for removing the corner flag pole before taking her corner kick. That was a new one for me.


----------



## coachrefparent (Feb 8, 2018)

whatever said:


> Also one of the TP players got a yellow card for removing the corner flag pole before taking her corner kick. That was a new one for me.


If no warning was given that's a pretty ticky-tack booking.


----------



## tugs (Feb 8, 2018)

Yeah, that officiating was pretty suspect.  Both sideline coaches got yellows after that one.  AR missed goal that crossed the goal line too near end of game.  Will be glad when league play starts again.


----------



## Fact (Feb 8, 2018)

tugs said:


> Yeah, that officiating was pretty suspect.  Both sideline coaches got yellows after that one.  AR missed goal that crossed the goal line too near end of game.  Will be glad when league play starts again.


Why glad when league play starts?  So you can complain about the same refs?


----------



## whatever (Feb 8, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> If no warning was given that's a pretty ticky-tack booking.


no warning was given.


----------



## Surfref (Feb 9, 2018)

tugs said:


> Yeah, that officiating was pretty suspect.  Both sideline coaches got yellows after that one.  AR missed goal that crossed the goal line too near end of game.  Will be glad when league play starts again.


95 percent of HS refs also referee club with many of those also refereeing college and adult leagues.

In my game last night both of us refs gave coaches a yellow card.  The coach on my sideline got a yellow because his bench players kept yelling.  The coach kept telling them to be quiet, but they didn't listen.  When someone on the bench yelled something personal at me about my lack of glasses late in the game I gave the coach a yellow card.  Under high school rules, if the referee cannot identify which person on the bench dissented then the coach gets the card.  I know this coach and knew I would not have to give him a second yellow card.  His bench players never yelled at me again.

Unless you are down on the field and looking across the goal line it can be difficult to tell if the ball was actually over the goal line.  The angle from the stands or bench area can be deceiving.  As a CR I have thought a ball had crossed the line for a goal only to have my AR indicate no goal.  I doubted them and later saw a video that indicated the AR was correct.  As long as the AR was in position during your game they should have been able to get the call correct.


----------



## Surfref (Feb 9, 2018)

whatever said:


> TP/CCA game last night - seemed like the ref crew was missing a lot of calls, more than normal. Near the end of the game, both head coaches were, uh, voicing their displeasure with the ref, and each one received a yellow card.  Also one of the TP players got a yellow card for removing the corner flag pole before taking her corner kick. That was a new one for me.


I would have just told her to put the flag back and not to move it again.  Are you sure the yellow was for moving the flag and not for dissent.  Refs often hear players dissenting on the field that cannot be heard by spectators.  Was she also subbed out after receiving the yellow card?


----------



## SoccerLife12 (Feb 10, 2018)

Surfref said:


> or profanity.


I’m not sure of all that was going on this past Friday at the Chula Vista HS/Olympian game but I have never seen so many yellow cards given out or just plain bad sportsmanship. There must have been 4-5 yellows issued by the end of the game and most of that was in the last 15 min.   The game was pretty even and uneventful most of the game with Chula Vista leading 1-0 first half.  Halfway through the 2nd half, Olympian came alive and was dominating and Chula Vista girls were interfering with throw ins and free kicks by immediately standing right in front of players from Olympian. Only wasting time because refs had to ask them to move EVERY SINGLE TIME.   And there was more shoe tying and shin guard fixing on every goal kick  and throw in.  And players lying on the ground by Chula Vista only to get up many many minutes later and be fine.  Yellow cards were finally given to the Chula Vista players for the running up and standing right in front of the players and then many more to come after I’m assuming for the foul mouths that were coming from two or three of the players on the field because of calls made?  Not sure because a lot of it we couldn’t hear from the stands.  There were  definitely a lot of angry words heard from the other stands due to extra time the refs added on for the obvious delay in game, especially since the game was tied up by Olympian in that extra time.  This crap totally takes away from just enjoying the game regardless of who wins or loses


----------



## coachrefparent (Feb 11, 2018)

SoccerLife12 said:


> I’m not sure of all that was going on this past Friday at the Chula Vista HS/Olympian game but I have never seen so many yellow cards given out or just plain bad sportsmanship. There must have been 4-5 yellows issued by the end of the game and most of that was in the last 15 min.   The game was pretty even and uneventful most of the game with Chula Vista leading 1-0 first half.  Halfway through the 2nd half, Olympian came alive and was dominating and Chula Vista girls were interfering with throw ins and free kicks by immediately standing right in front of players from Olympian. Only wasting time because refs had to ask them to move EVERY SINGLE TIME.   And there was more shoe tying and shin guard fixing on every goal kick  and throw in.  And players lying on the ground by Chula Vista only to get up many many minutes later and be fine.  Yellow cards were finally given to the Chula Vista players for the running up and standing right in front of the players and then many more to come after I’m assuming for the foul mouths that were coming from two or three of the players on the field because of calls made?  Not sure because a lot of it we couldn’t hear from the stands.  There were  definitely a lot of angry words heard from the other stands due to extra time the refs added on for the obvious delay in game, especially since the game was tied up by Olympian in that extra time.  This crap totally takes away from just enjoying the game regardless of who wins or loses


Chula Vista? Gamesmanship, poor sportsmanship, win at all costs? No way. 
(Yes, this happens everywhere...)


----------



## Surfref (Feb 11, 2018)

SoccerLife12 said:


> I’m not sure of all that was going on this past Friday at the Chula Vista HS/Olympian game but I have never seen so many yellow cards given out or just plain bad sportsmanship. There must have been 4-5 yellows issued by the end of the game and most of that was in the last 15 min.   The game was pretty even and uneventful most of the game with Chula Vista leading 1-0 first half.  Halfway through the 2nd half, Olympian came alive and was dominating and Chula Vista girls were interfering with throw ins and free kicks by immediately standing right in front of players from Olympian. Only wasting time because refs had to ask them to move EVERY SINGLE TIME.   And there was more shoe tying and shin guard fixing on every goal kick  and throw in.  And players lying on the ground by Chula Vista only to get up many many minutes later and be fine.  Yellow cards were finally given to the Chula Vista players for the running up and standing right in front of the players and then many more to come after I’m assuming for the foul mouths that were coming from two or three of the players on the field because of calls made?  Not sure because a lot of it we couldn’t hear from the stands.  There were  definitely a lot of angry words heard from the other stands due to extra time the refs added on for the obvious delay in game, especially since the game was tied up by Olympian in that extra time.  This crap totally takes away from just enjoying the game regardless of who wins or loses


Remember that in high school soccer there is no add time.  The referee actually stops the clock after goals, for cards, injuries and any other reason the referee decides to stop the clock.  So that Olympian goal was scored during normal game time.  If a team is wasting time, the Referee can always stop time to allow the players to tie their shoes.


----------



## Surfref (Feb 11, 2018)

SoccerLife12 said:


> I’m not sure of all that was going on this past Friday at the Chula Vista HS/Olympian game but I have never seen so many yellow cards given out or just plain bad sportsmanship. There must have been 4-5 yellows issued by the end of the game and most of that was in the last 15 min.   The game was pretty even and uneventful most of the game with Chula Vista leading 1-0 first half.  Halfway through the 2nd half, Olympian came alive and was dominating and Chula Vista girls were interfering with throw ins and free kicks by immediately standing right in front of players from Olympian. Only wasting time because refs had to ask them to move EVERY SINGLE TIME.   And there was more shoe tying and shin guard fixing on every goal kick  and throw in.  And players lying on the ground by Chula Vista only to get up many many minutes later and be fine.  Yellow cards were finally given to the Chula Vista players for the running up and standing right in front of the players and then many more to come after I’m assuming for the foul mouths that were coming from two or three of the players on the field because of calls made?  Not sure because a lot of it we couldn’t hear from the stands.  There were  definitely a lot of angry words heard from the other stands due to extra time the refs added on for the obvious delay in game, especially since the game was tied up by Olympian in that extra time.  This crap totally takes away from just enjoying the game regardless of who wins or loses


Remember that in high school soccer there is no add time.  The referee actually stops the clock after goals, for cards, injuries and any other reason the referee decides to stop the clock.  So that Olympian goal was scored during normal game time.  If a team is wasting time, the Referee can always stop time to allow the players to tie their shoes.


----------



## coachsamy (Feb 12, 2018)

For the most part the referees had been on point this entire season. Almost every game I attended it was a 2 ref set, which it sucks for them as they have to keep up with the game and listen to the stupidity that the parents have to said. One game last week that I witness only one referee in the game, and I spoke with him to let him know that he did great as it must be super difficult to ref by himself a girls hs game. And he still got verbally assaulted for not making calls that he didn't see and let continuation plays go. 

But then every parent out there wants to be like Lavar Ball.

To that lone referee thank you for displaying great knowledge of the game, taking your job seriously, and protecting the kids at all times.


----------



## whatever (Feb 13, 2018)

Surfref said:


> I would have just told her to put the flag back and not to move it again.  Are you sure the yellow was for moving the flag and not for dissent.  Refs often hear players dissenting on the field that cannot be heard by spectators.  Was she also subbed out after receiving the yellow card?


She was subbed out. I don't know if she dissented. I know she asked the ref why she couldn't take it out - is that considered dissent?


----------

