# First year as 11vs11



## ItsJustSoccer (Nov 27, 2019)

DD will be moving to 11vs11 next year and I am interested in hearing the thoughts on staying Flight 1 vs Regional ECNL/DPL vs ECNL/DA at this age.  
I would assume that moving to a bigger field and more players would lead to it being a year of transition so is it worth it to invest in anything higher than Flight 1 at this point? 
If we don't jump on the DA/ECNL pathway now, are we going to be behind in trying years down the line?
Is Regional ECNL/DPL a good middle ground for this transition year?
Thanks in advance for any feedback.


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## Kicker4Life (Nov 27, 2019)

ItsJustSoccer said:


> DD will be moving to 11vs11 next year and I am interested in hearing the thoughts on staying Flight 1 vs Regional ECNL/DPL vs ECNL/DA at this age.
> I would assume that moving to a bigger field and more players would lead to it being a year of transition so is it worth it to invest in anything higher than Flight 1 at this point?
> If we don't jump on the DA/ECNL pathway now, are we going to be behind in trying years down the line?
> Is Regional ECNL/DPL a good middle ground for this transition year?
> Thanks in advance for any feedback.


Stick with a coach and environment where your DD will thrive regardless of the league....if there are excellent Coaches to choose from and hypothetically if one is ECNL, one is DA/DPL and the other SCDSL, you will have to ask yourself the question about the expense and “non soccer” factors:

- distance to practice
- amount of travel involved for the season
- Club/Team fees

Good luck


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## sdb (Nov 27, 2019)

Agree with Kicker.

Where do you live? Are you willing to drive? Do you like your current coach? Does your player like her current team mates? Are you comfortable practicing 4 days a week? Have you identified coaches that you’d like to play with next season?

Lots of info on ECNL vs DA discussions in the DA and ECNL forums. There are many haters on all sides.

For us, we were on a DPL team that was the top team in our age group at the club we were at. We liked our coaches and team mates and most of the team transitioned to become the DA team. We kept our coaches as we moved to DA. We added 5-6 players, some flight 1, some ECNL and some DPL the previous season. There was no ECNL club nearby and we weren’t willing to drive, so that wasn’t an option. Practice 4 days a week worried me a bit but this Fall we’ve had several weekends off and rest days during the week given by the club and due to weather so I feel the load has been manageable so far.


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## espola (Nov 27, 2019)

"...willing to drive..."

In all my kids' soccer time, we never joined a team that meant driving more than 15 minutes in usual traffic to practice, except for a couple of seasons as a guest player on a friend-of-a-friend's team practicing for a few tournaments.  In driving to those practices (30 minutes google-maps time, but more like 45 minutes late-afternoon-traffic time) we encountered --

-a flat tire, the fixing of which require me to operate large hand tools with my butt hanging out in traffic
-a bright meteor shooting across the sky apparently headed in the direction of our usual practice field (an omen?)
-a mid-air collision between two small planes and the aftermath of pieces, some of them on fire, falling to the ground just off the freeway a mile or so ahead of us 

We'll stick to the home fields, thank you.


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## Helivessoccer (Nov 27, 2019)

I have the same question. When you are approaching the DA year 11v11 with a child that should be playing at a higher level. Is it harder to make the DA teams later after the DA teams have been formed? Do the small flight 1 clubs get recognized by college coaches if they are in the top 2 players on a non-DA team? How much travel is involved with the DA teams?


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## Emma (Nov 27, 2019)

If your player will make it on as a middle of the pack or higher player for a DA/ECNL team, the player will always have a chance to get on a DA team regardless of what year the player chooses to try out for DA/ECNL.  If your player is at the bottom third of the DA team, it will depend on the coach.  Some coaches will choose the known and comfortable player if they see potential while others will try a new player since the previous players already showed lack of improvement in their system.  The question then is - do you want your player on a DA/ECNL bench or actually playing on the field on a non DA/non ECNL team.  That's going to depend on your child's personality - learns more from leading and taking responsibility or learns more from challenges. 

The recommendation is always to stick with a great coach and great team until 16, regardless of leagues, as those are hard to come by and generally promote the most growth.


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## focomoso (Nov 27, 2019)

espola said:


> -a flat tire, the fixing of which require me to operate large hand tools with my butt hanging out in traffic
> -a bright meteor shooting across the sky apparently headed in the direction of our usual practice field (an omen?)
> -a mid-air collision between two small planes and the aftermath of pieces, some of them on fire, falling to the ground just off the freeway a mile or so ahead of us
> 
> We'll stick to the home fields, thank you.


Those sound like pluses, not minuses. Shared experience and all that...


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## sdb (Nov 27, 2019)

Regarding travel:

League is home and away vs other teams in SW division. So assuming your are in LA/OC, up to RSC 1x, down to San Diego 2x, Vegas 1x, AZ 1x. You will most likely have a trip to NorCal or WA/OR at some point during the season.

Showcases/Playoffs -- Fall showcase (not at U14 however), this year in Florida; Spring showcase (has been in CO and NC); Summer showcase in San Diego.

Think that's it. My understanding is that ECNL is comparable travel-wise.



Helivessoccer said:


> I have the same question. When you are approaching the DA year 11v11 with a child that should be playing at a higher level. Is it harder to make the DA teams later after the DA teams have been formed? Do the small flight 1 clubs get recognized by college coaches if they are in the top 2 players on a non-DA team? How much travel is involved with the DA teams?


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## Helivessoccer (Nov 27, 2019)

Emma said:


> If your player will make it on as a middle of the pack or higher player for a DA/ECNL team, the player will always have a chance to get on a DA team regardless of what year the player chooses to try out for DA/ECNL.  If your player is at the bottom third of the DA team, it will depend on the coach.  Some coaches will choose the known and comfortable player if they see potential while others will try a new player since the previous players already showed lack of improvement in their system.  The question then is - do you want your player on a DA/ECNL bench or actually playing on the field on a non DA/non ECNL team.  That's going to depend on your child's personality - learns more from leading and taking responsibility or learns more from challenges.
> 
> The recommendation is always to stick with a great coach and great team until 16, regardless of leagues, as those are hard to come by and generally promote the most growth.


Thanks for replying.  So you suggest waiting until 16.  I am not sure if my child will make DA but there are a few DA teams close by they have played against. My child is the top player on a flight 1 team. The child wants to sit on the bench of a higher team and work their way up, but that is a 12 year old speaking. I would rather stick with the local team because of obvious reasons of travel, expense and less stress. So if we really don’t need to leave until 16 why is there DA at 12 years old?


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## Kicker4Life (Nov 27, 2019)

Helivessoccer said:


> Thanks for replying.  So you suggest waiting until 16.  I am not sure if my child will make DA but there are a few DA teams close by they have played against. My child is the top player on a flight 1 team. The child wants to sit on the bench of a higher team and work their way up, but that is a 12 year old speaking. I would rather stick with the local team because of obvious reasons of travel, expense and less stress. So if we really don’t need to leave until 16 why is there DA at 12 years old?


DA starts at u14 on the girls side


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## Helivessoccer (Nov 27, 2019)

sdb said:


> Regarding travel:
> 
> League is home and away vs other teams in SW division. So assuming your are in LA/OC, up to RSC 1x, down to San Diego 2x, Vegas 1x, AZ 1x. You will most likely have a trip to NorCal or WA/OR at some point during the season.
> 
> ...


Can you opt-out of the travel for farther locations like Florida etc because of cost? Planes and hotels must add up quickly for you all. If the child is 13 next year it seems like waiting 3 years would save $5000 a year and you could use it towards their college education then at 16 travel just like I did when I was playing. Seems like it starts too young now days.


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## Helivessoccer (Nov 27, 2019)

I feel foolish even thinking about this.


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## Emma (Nov 27, 2019)

Helivessoccer said:


> Thanks for replying.  So you suggest waiting until 16.  I am not sure if my child will make DA but there are a few DA teams close by they have played against. My child is the top player on a flight 1 team. The child wants to sit on the bench of a higher team and work their way up, but that is a 12 year old speaking. I would rather stick with the local team because of obvious reasons of travel, expense and less stress. So if we really don’t need to leave until 16 why is there DA at 12 years old?


DA exist because our Men's National Team was/is struggling and they wanted to bring a uniform & improved training environment to the existing club establishment.  The fear, which still exists today with DA, is a lot of clubs were not developing technical players but just gathering strong and fast players in order to win games and accumulate more players/revenue.  US Soccer wanted more oversight of the development and identification process.  The three things DA clubs guarantee is (1) a group of committed, mostly highly talented, players that are willing to train 4 days a week (2) a coach with high level license and (3) a lot of travel compared to most non DA/ECNL clubs.  DA does not guarantee a great coach, great team, or a spot at age 16.  A great team and a great are probably the two most important criteria to development and very difficult to find.  Therefore, if you're able to find a great team with a great coach, don't feel the need to chase the DA name because it may not bring the results you are looking for.

Kante puts together a lot of good statistics, including turnover rates, and the DA rosters change at least 33% every year, some a lot more.  (take a look at his posts - they're fun) In looking at turnover rates, you can see that a player a player does not need to be in the DA club at U12 to be playing in a DA club at U16/17.   There's no rush to get on the DA club.  That's why it's fun to read all the Ulittle parents discuss moving to DA/ECNL clubs at U10, because they actually think it matters.  The clubs make it sound like it does so they can get good teams at the younger ages and recruit more players and increase their revenue.

If your player thinks it's important to play on a DA club, then that's something your family should discuss but from experience and observation, a good team and a good coach is hard to find because a bad team and a bad coach, regardless of whether it has the DA/ECNL name on it, can diminish the quality of a player.


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## focomoso (Nov 27, 2019)

Helivessoccer said:


> Thanks for replying.  So you suggest waiting until 16.  I am not sure if my child will make DA but there are a few DA teams close by they have played against. My child is the top player on a flight 1 team. The child wants to sit on the bench of a higher team and work their way up, but that is a 12 year old speaking. I would rather stick with the local team because of obvious reasons of travel, expense and less stress. So if we really don’t need to leave until 16 why is there DA at 12 years old?


In my experience (with boys of the same age). Playing time on a flight 1 is more valuable than sitting on the bench of a DA. If you can get into a part-time situation (where your dd is rostered on a club's flight 1 team and guest plays on the DA) that's probably the best.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Nov 27, 2019)

ItsJustSoccer said:


> DD will be moving to 11vs11 next year and I am interested in hearing the thoughts on staying Flight 1 vs Regional ECNL/DPL vs ECNL/DA at this age.
> I would assume that moving to a bigger field and more players would lead to it being a year of transition so is it worth it to invest in anything higher than Flight 1 at this point?
> If we don't jump on the DA/ECNL pathway now, are we going to be behind in trying years down the line?
> Is Regional ECNL/DPL a good middle ground for this transition year?
> Thanks in advance for any feedback.


11 vs. 11 changes the game entirely and it's an adjustment for everyone.  Frankly, I don't know why anyone would do DA at that age but, as others have said, you're better off with good coaches for the next couple of years.  Nobody is scouting your kid until they're 15 or 16 now anyway.


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## espola (Nov 27, 2019)

focomoso said:


> Those sound like pluses, not minuses. Shared experience and all that...


Speaking of which, while preparing for our Thanksgiving trip, I found a copy of the team highlight DVD made in 2008 by one of their high school teammates as his Senior Class project.  We're going to watch it together.


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## espola (Nov 27, 2019)

focomoso said:


> In my experience (with boys of the same age). Playing time on a flight 1 is more valuable than sitting on the bench of a DA. If you can get into a part-time situation (where your dd is rostered on a club's flight 1 team and guest plays on the DA) that's probably the best.


My smart-ass advice to parents has long been to get their kid on a team where they are one of the weaker starters.  They will get playing time if they fight for it, and will be directly exposed to better players.


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## oh canada (Nov 27, 2019)

Good advice from all above.  If you have a good situation--coach, convenience, teammates etc---stick with it for at least two more years.  First year of 11v11 is u13, correct?  Those are 7th graders.  There's no need to move to a DA/ECNL club imo until at the earliest Freshman year of HS, which should be u15.  That's the time when you will have to have the discussion with your child....does she want to play high school soccer?  does she want to practice 4 days/week (and do you want to drive her 4 days vs. 3 or 2)?  does she want to play other sports or participate in activities other than soccer?  Do you have other kids' schedules to consider?  And what will the relative $$ costs be?  At 12, her opinions on these topics (and yours) may be different than at 14yrs (u15).  With the new ncaa rules, college scouting/recruiting doesn't start seriously until sophomore year HS (u16) as stated by others above.  Don't feel like you have to follow the soccer crowd -- group think is often wrong.


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## mlx (Nov 27, 2019)

ItsJustSoccer said:


> DD will be moving to 11vs11 next year and I am interested in hearing the thoughts on staying Flight 1 vs Regional ECNL/DPL vs ECNL/DA at this age.
> I would assume that moving to a bigger field and more players would lead to it being a year of transition so is it worth it to invest in anything higher than Flight 1 at this point?
> If we don't jump on the DA/ECNL pathway now, are we going to be behind in trying years down the line?
> Is Regional ECNL/DPL a good middle ground for this transition year?
> Thanks in advance for any feedback.


If ecnl/da are your kid's goals and she can get in now, do it now (assuming you and her are OK with driving to practices, travel, etc.). Of course, pick a team with a coach that will develop her in a positive way. 

I waited a year to do that big step for my son and he's struggling a little bit with the difference in levels and physicality of the game at the ecnl level. We are lucky to have a great coach who is developing him and giving him the confidence he needed, and he's showing it.


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## futboldad1 (Nov 27, 2019)

mlx said:


> If ecnl/da are your kid's goals and she can get in now, do it now (assuming you and her are OK with driving to practices, travel, etc.). Of course, pick a team with a coach that will develop her in a positive way.
> 
> I waited a year to do that big step for my son and he's struggling a little bit with the difference in levels and physicality of the game at the ecnl level. We are lucky to have a great coach who is developing him and giving him the confidence he needed, and he's showing it.


I'm with mlx. The sooner your kid makes the leap the better as they'll be exposed to the hardest opponents and challenges ("Flight 1" is now really flight 3 or 4) when playing DA/ECNL (I know for U13 there's no DA just DPL but at that age it is comparable)....but as many have said #1 factor is the coach, Id say next is then the league and then the teammates. That'd be the top three. I put teammates at third not second as it's not social hour if you're serious about the sport. I know several kids who travel more than two hours each way to practice (5 hour round trip) which is too much for me especially 4x a week, but anywhere around an hour or a a little bit more than an hours drive each wayis worth it to me and my DD if the above 3 factors are met.

one thing to bear in mid is the level of your daughter....if she's middle of the pack she may be better out of the dog eat dog world of ECNL/DA, but if she's a stud it'l work for her.....have to find the right level so your kid is able to have some success and not be in over her head as it's your dream for her to be the next Mia Hamm.....

Good luck and don't feel dumb asking questions likes this, we've all been through it............


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## ItsJustSoccer (Nov 27, 2019)

Thank you all for the feedback!  This helps us try to navigate the soccer paths we have for next season.  
It seems most of you have emphasized that the coach matters most at this age and the development that comes from that coach, no matter what league or level.  We have the unfortunate position where there will be a coach change next year, so that is a big question mark for us. 
It makes me feel better that we arent alone in the struggle of trying to figure it all out, thanks again for alll the words of wisdom.


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## The Ghost of Johan Cruyff (Dec 1, 2019)

I think one thing worth pointing out, unless somebody already did and I missed it, is that ECNL/DA teams don't really break away from the Flight 1 teams until the fall. If you go to any top tournament you are going to play DPL, ECNL, ECRL teams. For that puts even more weight on choosing the right coach and that coach having the right training environment. To be perfectly honest, the Fall season is kind of a let down after some of the battles you get on Sunday during the summer. 

No one asked but here is what I think you want to see from your new coach and team going into 11v11: 

- At U13, their brains have finally developed to understand tactics because they can think spatially. (This one US soccer got right) Before anyone squawks about their player learning tactics prior to this age I can simply offer that it possible biologically. Anything before...passing patterns, etc. is just rote memorization. Just like getting a dog to sit on command. You train dogs, you develop people. So, look for a coach that wants to teach them tactics...from the beginning. If he/she just shoves them into a 4-4-2 that is a red flag. Personally I want to see some video analysis and wouldn't mind a little classroom in the spring and especially in the summer. 

- Less time spent on Technical. In fact, you aren't even supposed to teach technical at this age. They should already know it and they should already be working to improve it outside of team training. If someone is behind, get them a trainer, go to skills and let them find a wall and a ball. This is better in theory than application but again something to look for. 

- The biggest one is competition during training. I can't stress this enough. Let's do the math....48 weeks of soccer (give or take) = 12 league games + 6 tournaments (6x3.5 games = 21) + 5 friendlies = 38 games = 2660 minutes of soccer = 133 minutes of the ball at her feet (5% of touch time which is very generous) or 3 practices x 48 weeks x 90 min of practice = 12,960 minutes = 6480 minutes of the ball at her feet (50% just a guess). How important does league feel now? League is only 840 total. Even if your player had the ball at her feet the entire game ist 15% of what they do in training. 

Better make sure the coach is pushing them in practice. Better make sure the other players came to play. What do I want to hear from a coach? Playing time is bought and paid for with effort. Payment is due every day. At u13, you have two 11v11 seasons until high school. Forget league, focus on the training environment and curriculum. There are plenty of coaches who put together a practice session that some Closed League teams wouldn't want to be a part of. Find one. 

No matter what....Good Luck. As long as they keep playing that is all that matters.


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## focomoso (Dec 2, 2019)

The Ghost of Johan Cruyff said:


> - Less time spent on Technical. In fact, you aren't even supposed to teach technical at this age. They should already know it and they should already be working to improve it outside of team training.


I've heard this before and I find it so strange. What other sport suggests lessening technical training at 12? None that I know of. Every sport I ever participated in emphasizes technical training and fundamentals for your entire career. Can you imagine a golfer or basketball player or tennis player claiming that they "already know" the technical side and just want to focus on tactics?


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 3, 2019)

focomoso said:


> I've heard this before and I find it so strange. What other sport suggests lessening technical training at 12? None that I know of. Every sport I ever participated in emphasizes technical training and fundamentals for your entire career. Can you imagine a golfer or basketball player or tennis player claiming that they "already know" the technical side and just want to focus on tactics?


Because the player should be doing technical work on their own and applying it in training as they team works on tactics.


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