# Need help with a forfeit.



## socalkdg (Sep 18, 2017)

Need help with a forfeit.

Played Saturday.   When referee returned the player cards to each team, they were given back to the wrong teams.   Both coaches put them away, not realising they had the wrong cards. Next day we have a game, give the cards, notice they are the wrong ones.  I believe they get birth certificates, check each girl, and eventually sign off on the game and let it proceed.  2-0 win and score gets posted.  Monday the game is changed to a forfeit and a 1-0 loss since they didn't have player cards.

Can anything be done, or is this just a life lesson for our coaches and girls.  The other team with our cards wasn't playing Sunday and we are exchanging player cards with them Tuesday. Pretty sure the parents and coaches are more upset then the girls, which is the norm, isn't it.


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## outside! (Sep 18, 2017)

This is just a result of a poorly designed system. CalSouth still insists that only player cards can be used to identify players, when they could offer an online check procedure as a backup. At least your situation was just a league game.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 18, 2017)

Sounds like they did their due diligence to have the game proceed as scheduled.  Maybe Cal South can trust in the officials they hire as well.


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## coachrefparent (Sep 18, 2017)

outside! said:


> This is just a result of a poorly designed system. CalSouth still insists that only player cards can be used to identify players, when they could offer an online check procedure as a backup. At least your situation was just a league game.


Note sure what league this is, but Presidio allows teams to check in via the affinity online card system, or using the Game Roster. It seems very few people know this.


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## espola (Sep 18, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Sounds like they did their due diligence to have the game proceed as scheduled.  Maybe Cal South can trust in the officials they hire as well.


Cal South doesn't hire the officials for league games.


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## espola (Sep 18, 2017)

socalkdg said:


> Need help with a forfeit.
> 
> Played Saturday.   When referee returned the player cards to each team, they were given back to the wrong teams.   Both coaches put them away, not realising they had the wrong cards. Next day we have a game, give the cards, notice they are the wrong ones.  I believe they get birth certificates, check each girl, and eventually sign off on the game and let it proceed.  2-0 win and score gets posted.  Monday the game is changed to a forfeit and a 1-0 loss since they didn't have player cards.
> 
> Can anything be done, or is this just a life lesson for our coaches and girls.  The other team with our cards wasn't playing Sunday and we are exchanging player cards with them Tuesday. Pretty sure the parents and coaches are more upset then the girls, which is the norm, isn't it.


What league?


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## Jshwora (Sep 18, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> Note sure what league this is, but Presidio allows teams to check in via the affinity online card system, or using the Game Roster. It seems very few people know this.


The interesting thing is that the feature is already available in the Affinity system and requires no work by anyone to utilize it.  If you're a team administrator (coach, manager, etc) all you have to do is login to your account here http://home.sportsaffinity.com/m/pass/index.aspx click on the roster of your team and any one of your players and their digital card comes up.  It even has the Cal South logo and everything.  That being said, some leagues may not even know this is an option (I don't think it's been widely publicized).  The only issues would be when you are borrowing players from another team as they can't login to their account and see their own individual card.  You'd still have to get the hard copy.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 19, 2017)

espola said:


> Cal South doesn't hire the officials for league games.


Yup...it was to late to change my verbiage.


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## socalkdg (Sep 19, 2017)

CSL is the league.   Turns out the other coach filed a protest even though the referee's had approved us.   2nd time the team has lost to us, all the same players for us, less two that were hurt.  They still haven't scored.   Well, now they did with the protest.


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## Desert Hound (Sep 19, 2017)

How hard is it to look at your cards when you receive them? I am a manager and trust me...it takes just a second to look at the cards they hand you after the game is over. 

Sometimes I get the cards directly...but most of the time they hand it to the coach. That said as soon as the game is over I head over. As soon as the coach gets the cards...I grab them and look. Sunday I was missing a couple (I also count them if they take them off the ring). Found them immediately. 

Drive the bus.


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## gauchosean (Sep 19, 2017)

As a retired 10 year team manager this shit happens. 

Rule #1: NEVER LET THE COACH BE IN CHARGE OF THE CARDS!

Couple years into being a manager I created a leave the field checklist for myself. The last item on the list was to verify I had my cards before I closed the trunk of the car.  I put the cards on a lanyard and would wear them around my neck until I put everything in the trunk and last thing in was the cards. (Similar procedure leaving to go to games) I had nightmares of being at a field and not having cards.


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## MWN (Sep 19, 2017)

As a referee, I see all sort of sophisticated (joke) ways Team Managers keep track of their cards.  Probably the best way is to use a gaudy lanyard that nobody can mistake as "theirs."  

Manager: My cards are the ones with the florescent pink "hello kitty" lanyard!  
Me: "Here you go ... wait isn't this a boys team?"


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## Surfref (Sep 19, 2017)

I dont understood why managers don't have a backup set of player and coach cards. All of the managers for my DD teams had a backup set of cards.


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## Bananacorner (Sep 19, 2017)

Surfref said:


> I dont understood why managers don't have a backup set of player and coach cards. All of the managers for my DD teams had a backup set of cards.


Cause we're all stupid.  I don't have a back-up set.  I thought it was dumb but I couldn't help myself.


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## espola (Sep 19, 2017)

gauchosean said:


> As a retired 10 year team manager this shit happens.
> 
> Rule #1: NEVER LET THE COACH BE IN CHARGE OF THE CARDS!
> 
> Couple years into being a manager I created a leave the field checklist for myself. The last item on the list was to verify I had my cards before I closed the trunk of the car.  I put the cards on a lanyard and would wear them around my neck until I put everything in the trunk and last thing in was the cards. (Similar procedure leaving to go to games) I had nightmares of being at a field and not having cards.


A team my son was coaching took a forfeit because the manager forgot to take the cards to Temecula.  She went back home to get them, and we were giving the referee team updates on her position ("just entered Escondido") but time ran out before she returned.

I forgot the cards myself once when acting as backup manager, but we only lived 5 minutes from the fields, so I got them back before game time.


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## Mystery Train (Sep 19, 2017)

Desert Hound said:


> How hard is it to look at your cards when you receive them? I am a manager and trust me...it takes just a second to look at the cards they hand you after the game is over.
> 
> Sometimes I get the cards directly...but most of the time they hand it to the coach. That said as soon as the game is over I head over. As soon as the coach gets the cards...I grab them and look. Sunday I was missing a couple (I also count them if they take them off the ring). Found them immediately.
> 
> Drive the bus.


I don't think anyone was saying that it's hard.  The OP was just asking if there was anything that could be done now that the other coach went douchebag and filed a protest over a technicality.  I was a manager for several years and made sure that I kept the cards in a zipper pouch with my name on it because someone told me about a similar horror story.  But I did once have to race back home from halfway to Palmdale because I'd left them in the driveway while I was packing the car, so yeah, sh#t happens.  Unfortunately, @socalkdg, looks like this one will have to be chalked up under "life lesson" for the TA and coach.


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## doubled (Sep 19, 2017)

Surfref said:


> I dont understood why managers don't have a backup set of player and coach cards. All of the managers for my DD teams had a backup set of cards.


Our club will not issue a second set of player cards.  I know many managers have made the request but it's always turned down.  If the manager forgets them we are out of luck.


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## outside! (Sep 19, 2017)

doubled said:


> Our club will not issue a second set of player cards.  I know many managers have made the request but it's always turned down.  If the manager forgets them we are out of luck.


It is important to make sure the kids suffer anytime the grownups make a mistake.


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## MWN (Sep 19, 2017)

Surfref said:


> I dont understood why managers don't have a backup set of player and coach cards. All of the managers for my DD teams had a backup set of cards.


It is my understanding that duplicate player cards are not allowed or severely frowned upon.  Why?  If a player commits Assault or Referee Abuse, or the card is suspected to be falsified, then the card is to be held by the Referee and surrendered to the league or Cal South.  Having a duplicate set of cards in the wild breaks the system.


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## espola (Sep 19, 2017)

MWN said:


> It is my understanding that duplicate player cards are not allowed or severely frowned upon.  Why?  If a player commits Assault or Referee Abuse, or the card is suspected to be falsified, then the card is to be held by the Referee and surrendered to the league or Cal South.  Having a duplicate set of cards in the wild breaks the system.


"The system" includes reporting of red cards along with the scores so that everyone in the league (including your opponents) knows who got them.


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## Dargle (Sep 19, 2017)

MWN said:


> It is my understanding that duplicate player cards are not allowed or severely frowned upon.  Why?  If a player commits Assault or Referee Abuse, or the card is suspected to be falsified, then the card is to be held by the Referee and surrendered to the league or Cal South.  Having a duplicate set of cards in the wild breaks the system.


Exactly.  Two cards would facilitate fraud.  I'm not sure if there is a specific ban upon it or it is merely considered an ethical violation that would get the registrar in trouble if they print out a duplicate card without an affidavit of a lost or destroyed card or something like that.

The real solution is electronic cards and we're not far away from that.


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## Dargle (Sep 19, 2017)

espola said:


> "The system" includes reporting of red cards along with the scores so that everyone in the league (including your opponents) knows who got them.


Cal South does cards, not the leagues.  With two cards, you could enter two kids into two different Cal South sanctioned tournaments under the same player name/card.


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## espola (Sep 19, 2017)

Dargle said:


> Cal South does cards, not the leagues.  With two cards, you could enter two kids into two different Cal South sanctioned tournaments under the same player name/card.


You can do that with one card.


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## Dargle (Sep 19, 2017)

espola said:


> You can do that with one card.


Not at the same time in two different locations.


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## espola (Sep 19, 2017)

Dargle said:


> Not at the same time in two different locations.


Are you going to split the player in half?


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## Surfref (Sep 19, 2017)

doubled said:


> Our club will not issue a second set of player cards.  I know many managers have made the request but it's always turned down.  If the manager forgets them we are out of luck.


Just tell a little white lie and tell them the cards were lost.  I don't know why they wouldn't issue another set.  My wife and another mom were co-team managers for one of my DD teams and each of them had a complete set of coaches and players cards.


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## Dargle (Sep 19, 2017)

espola said:


> Are you going to split the player in half?


Two different players, one using the original card and the other its copy


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## Dargle (Sep 19, 2017)

Surfref said:


> Just tell a little white lie and tell them the cards were lost.  I don't know why they wouldn't issue another set.  My wife and another mom were co-team managers for one of my DD teams and each of them had a complete set of coaches and players cards.


Perhaps Cal South came down on this practice.  Registrars refuse.


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## Surfref (Sep 19, 2017)

Dargle said:


> Exactly.  Two cards would facilitate fraud.  I'm not sure if there is a specific ban upon it or it is merely considered an ethical violation that would get the registrar in trouble if they print out a duplicate card without an affidavit of a lost or destroyed card or something like that.
> 
> The real solution is electronic cards and we're not far away from that.


Electronic cards or having the picture on the roster like Presidio would be the way to go.


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## gauchosean (Sep 19, 2017)

The cards are printed on the master stock provided by CalSouth, it was my understanding from our registrar (4-5 years ago) that they started to limit the amount of blank card stock they would give the clubs. 

But I have never heard of a club/registrar printing 2 sets of CalSouth cards. Now I used to also carry a set of US Club cards but that wouldn't help for league.


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## Surfref (Sep 19, 2017)

Dargle said:


> Perhaps Cal South came down on this practice.  Registrars refuse.


It has been a few years since my DD was playing club and even longer for my wife as a manager.  So, maybe the system has changed.


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## espola (Sep 19, 2017)

Dargle said:


> Two different players, one using the original card and the other its copy


That's illegal anyway.  What point are you trying to make here?


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## Dargle (Sep 19, 2017)

espola said:


> That's illegal anyway.  What point are you trying to make here?


There are things that are illegal that are hard to detect when they occur, so procedures are developed to make it harder to do them.  For example, it's illegal to burglarize a house, but people still lock their doors to make it more difficult for people to do it.

Sounds like you think I have an agenda.  Not only don't I, but I can't even imagine what that agenda would be in this case.  I'm just explaining why I think a policy seems to be in place.


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## GunninGopher (Sep 19, 2017)

I think duplicate cards are $10 each. I lost a guest player's over the summer and that's what I paid to get another made, and it only took a couple days, before it was in-hand.

Not I would never and have never done this for teams that I have managed, but just to play it safe, I suppose someone could scan each card before it is laminated and the print/laminate a new one if it were lost or damaged...

At any rate, as others have said, you would have been fine in Presidio. You might have had to convince the referee to call his assignor, league or association higher-up to confirm it, but we are allowed to check-in players using our cell phone. The referee would only know this if they went to association meetings, and not that many do. The photos appear much better on the phone than on the cards.


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## pewpew (Sep 19, 2017)

It really falls on the TA at the end of the day.  Since a TA is allowed to sign the Game Card I always made sure I was the one to sign the card and get my cards back so the coach could speak with the players after the game.  Last thing before leaving the house/field  is verifying the cards are in my backpack and my backpack is in the car. 
That being said..I could see the losing coach trying to pull crap after his/her team got beat. Would they have protested if they'd won? Probably not.  
To the OP...why not just out the coach/team so we know what a little b!+€# the coach is...just a thought.


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## socalkdg (Sep 19, 2017)

Mystery Train said:


> I don't think anyone was saying that it's hard.  The OP was just asking if there was anything that could be done now that the other coach went douchebag and filed a protest over a technicality.  I was a manager for several years and made sure that I kept the cards in a zipper pouch with my name on it because someone told me about a similar horror story.  But I did once have to race back home from halfway to Palmdale because I'd left them in the driveway while I was packing the car, so yeah, sh#t happens.  Unfortunately, @socalkdg, looks like this one will have to be chalked up under "life lesson" for the TA and coach.


Sounds like it.  Looks like our coach might get a chance to meet the CSL board to discuss.   Protest might not have been proper, plus the referees were good with what was supplied to them. Our coach will state his case.  With the way CSL promotes and demotes based on record, wins sometimes take more importance then maybe they should.   Sad that both teams girls have to go through this because for some reason this coach wants (or needs?) this win.  I know I wouldn't be happy to get the win after losing based off of a technicality.  Still happy with that game.  My kid did some new things that she hadn't as a keeper, just keep on growing as a player.


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## socalkdg (Sep 19, 2017)

pewpew said:


> That being said..I could see the losing coach trying to pull crap after his/her team got beat. Would they have protested if they'd won? Probably not.
> To the OP...why not just out the coach/team so we know what a little b!+€# the coach is...just a thought.


I like it, but won't(at least not until our coach has a chance to chat with Coast Soccer).   Plus I've seen you guys here on this board, you can figure out what team my daughter is on, who we played this past weekend, and what team it was we played.


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## Monkey (Sep 19, 2017)

socalkdg said:


> I like it, but won't(at least not until our coach has a chance to chat with Coast Soccer).   Plus I've seen you guys here on this board, you can figure out what team my daughter is on, who we played this past weekend, and what team it was we played.


Yes his first post has all the clues you need to figure it out.


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## tabletop (Oct 14, 2017)

socalkdg said:


> I like it, but won't(at least not until our coach has a chance to chat with Coast Soccer).   Plus I've seen you guys here on this board, you can figure out what team my daughter is on, who we played this past weekend, and what team it was we played.


Maybe you should call the coach tonight & make sure he has the correct cards for tomorrow's rematch.  Good luck - the girls are probably amped up for this one.


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## Toch (Oct 14, 2017)

outside! said:


> This is just a result of a poorly designed system. CalSouth still insists that only player cards can be used to identify players, when they could offer an online check procedure as a backup. At least your situation was just a league game.


There’s always a moron that will blame the system. The coaches, admins and refs should pay attention to something so important. Simply put, the admins/coaches should always check before walking off.


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## Toch (Oct 14, 2017)

socalkdg said:


> Sounds like it.  Looks like our coach might get a chance to meet the CSL board to discuss.   Protest might not have been proper, plus the referees were good with what was supplied to them. Our coach will state his case.  With the way CSL promotes and demotes based on record, wins sometimes take more importance then maybe they should.   Sad that both teams girls have to go through this because for some reason this coach wants (or needs?) this win.  I know I wouldn't be happy to get the win after losing based off of a technicality.  Still happy with that game.  My kid did some new things that she hadn't as a keeper, just keep on growing as a player.


It seems to be as important to your team to get the “W” since your coach is trying to meet up with CSL


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## outside! (Oct 14, 2017)

Toch said:


> There’s always a moron that will blame the system. The coaches, admins and refs should pay attention to something so important. Simply put, the admins/coaches should always check before walking off.


Yep, it is important to punish the children for the mistakes of the adults.


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## Toch (Oct 14, 2017)

outside! said:


> Yep, it is important to punish the children for the mistakes of the adults.


Turn into a learning experience for the kids. Let them know how important it is to take an additional 10seconds to double check your cards when you get them back. Get creative and turn it into something good


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