# ECNL-style Super League



## Venantsyo (Apr 18, 2021)

Top European Soccer Teams Form Breakaway League (Published 2021)
					

Real Madrid, Manchester United, Liverpool and Juventus are among the dozen founding members of a league that would upend the sport’s structures and economics.




					www.nytimes.com
				




It's for the kids....


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## notintheface (Apr 18, 2021)

Ridiculous money grab. I hope the FA bans them from domestic competition.


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## espola (Apr 18, 2021)

Where's the "ECNL-style" part?


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## Tim Powell (Apr 18, 2021)

I was wondering when this thread was going to start.


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## NewUser27 (Apr 18, 2021)

According to my 13yr this is a very selfish move and not good , both him and his buddy (also 13) talked at length and I cant disagree , he said it’s just like ECNL , thought it was funny


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## SoccerFan4Life (Apr 19, 2021)

The exciting part of the current system is to watch a Man city vs Barca or other great matchups every once in a while.  If I have to see Man U vs psg every year play each other up to 4 times a year (with playoffs), this no longer  makes it special. 

Consumers should vote with their dollars and stop buying kits or watching these teams on tv as a statement


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## Lavey29 (Apr 19, 2021)

Interesting to see things happening at the highest level of soccer similar to what we experience at the almost lowest level of soccer and of course the common denominator is money rather then focusing on the beautiful game.


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## Tim Powell (Apr 19, 2021)

espola said:


> Where's the "ECNL-style" part?


I would assume the thinking is...
- league in which clubs go beyond participating in it and actually form and run it
- closed competition based on club affiliation rather than yearly qualification or pro/rel


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## espola (Apr 19, 2021)

Tim Powell said:


> I would assume the thinking is...
> - league in which clubs go beyond participating in it and actually form and run it
> - closed competition based on club affiliation rather than yearly qualification or pro/rel


"We're the best because we say so therefore all the money is now ours"?


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## Desert Hound (Apr 19, 2021)

FIFA is trying to kill it. 

According to the news I heard FIFA is saying players in this league will not be able to participate in the world cup.


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## Tim Powell (Apr 19, 2021)

espola said:


> "We're the best because we say so therefore all the money is now ours"?


I keep my editorial relatively limited where I can.

But this is particularly notable in the case of European football, as the idea of open competition  and sporting merit have been entrenched for decades. While inherent structural disadvantages are in play, there’s a possible path for a 3rd tier English team to eventually compete in (and win) the Champions League.

What’s happened in our club soccer world deviates from that European tradition but aligns much more with the American pro sports tradition: closed leagues with the power dynamic heavily aligned with the club ownership vs. league administration. A team from a small club can do really well through U12, but due to a ceiling on their playing platform, most often what happens is the key players leave for the closed leagues to reach to top platform.


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## lafalafa (Apr 19, 2021)

ECNL already has a champions league tournament for the top teams.

On the old board there was a lengthy thread about bringing together top teams from the various leagues to play a champion league like tournament.

Cal South eventually become interested in the idea and created CRL.  Unfortunately that effort fell short with exclusion, high entry fees, poor quality venues, lack management, schedules, etc and clubs became disinterested pretty quickly and left Cal South for other opportunities.

Do we need another league or tournaments now?


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## TheVirginian (Apr 19, 2021)

Arsenal is dead to me after being a fan for thirty years if they do this.   If they are not in the FA they are not Arsenal anymore.    A big reason U.S. soccer is inferior is the lack of promotion/relegation.  How great would it be if we had a German style pyramid, everybody earns their place?  Too bad CalSouth couldn't pull it off.


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## crush (Apr 19, 2021)

Desert Hound said:


> FIFA is trying to kill it.
> 
> According to the news I heard FIFA is saying players in this league will not be able to participate in the world cup.


Sounds familiar. If you play HSS, you can't play in our pay to play league.  What is wrong with this sport?  Control freaks at its worst.


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## happy9 (Apr 19, 2021)

crush said:


> Sounds familiar. If you play HSS, you can't play in our pay to play league.  What is wrong with this sport?  Control freaks at its worst.


They think they are finally seeing the light and are going to be potentially gazillionaires.


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## Messi>CR7 (Apr 19, 2021)

TheVirginian said:


> Arsenal is dead to me after being a fan for thirty years if they do this.


Unfortunately I think they already took that type of reaction into consideration.  Someone at these clubs did the math and concluded that pissing off domestic fans can be made up by TV rights from international markets.  As we learned from matches during Covid, CGI-based fans and crowd noise can also be superimposed onto live TV.

Four north London derbies per year will get you more TV money than two matches regardless of the prestige and the importance of the matches.


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## notintheface (Apr 19, 2021)

After having spent some time processing the news from the last 24 hours, I'm amending my statement.

I hope the teams get thrown out of the FA. I hope the UK Government enacts a 50+1 ownership rule to throw out the oligarchs and the Glazers/Kroenkes/Henrys of the world. I hope UEFA enacts a rule that any new player signing for these 12 clubs is disqualified from national team duty. I hope the players all enact their relegation clauses. I hope the overwhelming number of forthcoming lawsuits, legal fees, injunctions, etc, grinds these 12 clubs down into dust.


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## crush (Apr 19, 2021)

happy9 said:


> They think they are finally seeing the light and are going to be potentially gazillionaires.


Money + Ego + Power + Control= STFU


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## Grace T. (Apr 19, 2021)

Tim Powell said:


> I keep my editorial relatively limited where I can.
> 
> But this is particularly notable in the case of European football, as the idea of open competition  and sporting merit have been entrenched for decades. While inherent structural disadvantages are in play, there’s a possible path for a 3rd tier English team to eventually compete in (and win) the Champions League.
> 
> What’s happened in our club soccer world deviates from that European tradition but aligns much more with the American pro sports tradition: closed leagues with the power dynamic heavily aligned with the club ownership vs. league administration. A team from a small club can do really well through U12, but due to a ceiling on their playing platform, most often what happens is the key players leave for the closed leagues to reach to top platform.


Superleagues seem to be the natural resting place of the top tiers if the market is allowed to function without interference.  In other sports we've seen it in gridiron football, hockey, and basketball.  Yeah, it's bad for the game, but remember (unlike the MLS with its salary caps and joint ownership), these superteams are pouring a bunch of money (beyond profitability in many cases) to build a winning franchise.  To some extent this interview is right: UEFA created the situation and created a monster.


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## tjinaz (Apr 19, 2021)

Its hilarious when the fans of the European leagues bring up "fair play", "sporting ethos" and the "sporting tradition".  Truth is the super teams dominate all the leagues of Europe.  Most one sided thing I have ever seen. Its been about the cash for years.

Look at the odds for teams other than the super clubs to win at the beginning of the season and tell me its sporting.  In EPL when the sports betting has nearly every club outside the big 6 at such great odds to win do you really think the lower half teams can compete or any of the rich ones will get relegated? Its a complete farce. The sports betting industry which runs in the real world and not the moral high ground would disagree with you.

Have you looked at the last 20 years of CL and EPL champions? Its the same rich clubs over and over again.  The one exception was the Foxes in 2015 and their odds to win were 5000-1. All of the Euro leagues are greatly unbalanced in favor of the rich super clubs. Give your head a shake if you think there is any form of sporting ethos involved.  It is straight up cash.  Sure its technically possible and I can win the lottery too but I don't call that "a sporting chance".    When one team spends 80m and another 600m they shouldn't be in the same league.

Oh and don't get me started on how moral FIFA and UEFA are.. three words.. Qatar world cup.  They are as shady as they come.


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## lafalafa (Apr 19, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Its hilarious when the fans of the European leagues bring up "fair play", "sporting ethos" and the "sporting tradition".  Truth is the super teams dominate all the leagues of Europe.  Most one sided thing I have ever seen. Its been about the cash for years.
> 
> Look at the odds for teams other than the super clubs to win at the beginning of the season and tell me its sporting.  In EPL when the sports betting has nearly every club outside the big 6 at such great odds to win do you really think the lower half teams can compete or any of the rich ones will get relegated? Its a complete farce. The sports betting industry which runs in the real world and not the moral high ground would disagree with you.
> 
> ...


The prize money for winning the super league is sick and you can bet the odds makers want to see another league and more bets on a regular basis. Billionaires gambling even more is what this is.

Champion league is not enough vigorous for some books or clubs to make it worth it anymore,  greed runs through it all.   Keeping up with the joneses can get very pricey.


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## espola (Apr 19, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Its hilarious when the fans of the European leagues bring up "fair play", "sporting ethos" and the "sporting tradition".  Truth is the super teams dominate all the leagues of Europe.  Most one sided thing I have ever seen. Its been about the cash for years.
> 
> Look at the odds for teams other than the super clubs to win at the beginning of the season and tell me its sporting.  In EPL when the sports betting has nearly every club outside the big 6 at such great odds to win do you really think the lower half teams can compete or any of the rich ones will get relegated? Its a complete farce. The sports betting industry which runs in the real world and not the moral high ground would disagree with you.
> 
> ...


Betting lines are an indication of popularity, not team quality.


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## tjinaz (Apr 19, 2021)

espola said:


> Betting lines are an indication of popularity, not team quality.


Betting lines are true odds backed by money.  Those running the numbers have to honor them if their numbers are off they are out of business.  It is not popularity it is actuarial and is probably the most accurate indication of team quality.


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## espola (Apr 19, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Betting lines are true odds backed by money.  Those running the numbers have to honor them if their numbers are off they are out of business.  It is not popularity it is actuarial and is probably the most accurate indication of team quality.


You cited a champion whose odds to win were 5000 to 1 - and yet they won.

The objective of the betting houses is to make money, not rate teams in order of quality.  The high odds are bait to get bettors to risk money on unpopular teams.


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## tjinaz (Apr 19, 2021)

espola said:


> You cited a champion whose odds to win were 5000 to 1 - and yet they won.
> 
> The objective of the betting houses is to make money, not rate teams in order of quality.  The high odds are bait to get bettors to risk money on unpopular teams.


Even progressive jackpots get hit every now and then doesn't mean the odds are wrong.  95% of the time the house wins


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## espola (Apr 19, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Even progressive jackpots get hit every now and then doesn't mean the odds are wrong.  95% of the time the house wins


It looks like you agree with me, although I doubt that you realize it.


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## tjinaz (Apr 19, 2021)

espola said:


> It looks like you agree with me, although I doubt that you realize it.


guess my point is the everyone is up in arms about relegation and promotion but those rules don't even apply to the teams in the super league.  They are in the top league and will never be relegated.  If they get close they fire the one over priced manager/ group of players and hire another one.  Not much in European football that can't be solved with a truckload of cash.  So moot point.  I guess if a new Sheik buys Newcastle and drops 600m on players they could work their way up but is that a tradition that needs protecting?  What is sporting about that?  That is just the EPL.. LaLiga has even worse disparity.  I don't know that Europeans really understand what fair or even playing fields even mean.


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## lafalafa (Apr 20, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> guess my point is the everyone is up in arms about relegation and promotion but those rules don't even apply to the teams in the super league.  They are in the top league and will never be relegated.  If they get close they fire the one over priced manager/ group of players and hire another one.  Not much in European football that can't be solved with a truckload of cash.  So moot point.  I guess if a new Sheik buys Newcastle and drops 600m on players they could work their way up but is that a tradition that needs protecting?  What is sporting about that?  That is just the EPL.. LaLiga has even worse disparity.  I don't know that Europeans really understand what fair or even playing fields even mean.


Closed league for billionaire owners who want to get a greater percentage of the $$ and more control over the scheduling vs what the Champions league currently provides.

Business decision regarding price money and a platform to play more meaninful games instead of traveling to play lesser squads in the group stages or rounds of 32, etc.

Letting the market decide and not threatening one league or the other like uefa and fifa are doing in a attempt protect there cash cows might be less controversial but what funny would that be in war for more $$.


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## espola (Apr 20, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Closed league for billionaire owners who want to get a greater percentage of the $$ and more control over the scheduling vs what the Champions league currently provides.
> 
> Business decision regarding price money and a platform to play more meaninful games instead of traveling to play lesser squads in the group stages or rounds of 32, etc.
> 
> Letting the market decide and not threatening one league or the other like uefa and fifa are doing in a attempt protect there cash cows might be less controversial but what funny would that be in war for more $$.


Perhaps a glimmer of hope that this situation could be the beginning of the end of the FIFA oligarchy.


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## whatithink (Apr 20, 2021)

I have to say that I'm pretty ambivalent about all this "outrage" from all and sundry.

The Premier League was setup as a break away from the Football League in England. There was nothing altruistic about it. It was all about money, plain and simple. Sure there is relegation, but the relegated teams get a huge pot of $ relative to their Championship rivals which gives them an enormous $ injection akin to doping to increase their chances of bouncing back up. The PL complaining that someone wants to break away ... yeah, whatever. The PL loses probably 80% if its revenue of they kick the 6 out IMO.
UEFA has bastardized the European Cup which was for the league champions, home & away knockout, to the Champions League and now to their new format, which basically means some teams (like Bayern who advocated for it) will likely always qualify, even if they have an off year. UEFA is all about $, earned on the back of the clubs. Their revamped comps BTW just mean more games for clubs, meaning bigger squads costing more $ (that they don't have to pay). Do they care about things like player welfare, do they F. Do they care about the $ to the clubs, do they F.
UEFA has nothing. They have no venues, they have no teams, they have sweet F all. They are corrupt, money hungry . What do they bring to the table for the clubs - a couple of competitions that the clubs can organize themselves and TV/sponsorship deals that the clubs also organize themselves.
Some Euro leagues are patently uncompetitive - actually the reality is most are pretty uncompetitive. The same clubs share the top spots year after year. The complaints that this is about "competition" is nonsense. Leicester is an anomaly. The EPL is the most competitive league because of the money the clubs get, but that $ is only there because you have the Manchester clubs, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. There is zero chance they get any deals like they have today without those clubs. The same for every domestic league and every Euro wide competition.
Fans complain all the time if their club doesn't buy this player, or that player. They complain if their owners don't dip into their pocket to remain at the top table. The outrage in England in particular is hilarious. The clubs make more money from TV and global reach than any local fans. The local money is icing but not the cake. Where does the money come from. Barcelona are in debt of $1B. The 12 clubs have a collective debt of something live $4-5B. WTF do people think is going to happen from a business perspective.
FIFA - a thoroughly crap and corrupt organization if ever there was one - complaining should give everyone pause to consider whether this is a good idea. An org that should be disbanded and buried in the dustbin of history. An org that allowed the WC to go to Qatar - where *6,500* workers have died.  Where is FIFA's outrage over that, how many times have they threatened to pull it. FIFA, who are organizing their own Club WC - which clubs do you think they want to suck money out of for that?
Agents have taken $1B out of soccer in the last few years. $1B taken out by agents. What are UEFA & FIFA doing - F all. Sure, they are making some sounds and what not, but, its not $ out of their pocket, so they couldn't give a crap. Suddenly they see a threat to their nest eggs and WOW, its all about integrity of the game ... INTEGRITY from F-ing FIFA or UEFA for that matter.
Just as an example here, look at the Haaland rumors - $150M to buy, agent wants $20M, father wants $20M, he wants to be paid $30M annually NET. How to F do fans think this will get paid for?


I would think JP Morgan did their due diligence and this makes $ sense. These corps have the $ to fight any legal action in court. They can also wrangle huge concessions if they go back.

All the outrage, esp. from orgs that are crapping themselves as the golden geese are leaving ... F them, they are all about the $ (too).


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## tjinaz (Apr 20, 2021)

whatithink said:


> I have to say that I'm pretty ambivalent about all this "outrage" from all and sundry.
> 
> The Premier League was setup as a break away from the Football League in England. There was nothing altruistic about it. It was all about money, plain and simple. Sure there is relegation, but the relegated teams get a huge pot of $ relative to their Championship rivals which gives them an enormous $ injection akin to doping to increase their chances of bouncing back up. The PL complaining that someone wants to break away ... yeah, whatever. The PL loses probably 80% if its revenue of they kick the 6 out IMO.
> UEFA has bastardized the European Cup which was for the league champions, home & away knockout, to the Champions League and now to their new format, which basically means some teams (like Bayern who advocated for it) will likely always qualify, even if they have an off year. UEFA is all about $, earned on the back of the clubs. Their revamped comps BTW just mean more games for clubs, meaning bigger squads costing more $ (that they don't have to pay). Do they care about things like player welfare, do they F. Do they care about the $ to the clubs, do they F.
> ...


Very well said.  Agree 100%


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## Grace T. (Apr 20, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> guess my point is the everyone is up in arms about relegation and promotion but those rules don't even apply to the teams in the super league.  They are in the top league and will never be relegated.  If they get close they fire the one over priced manager/ group of players and hire another one.  Not much in European football that can't be solved with a truckload of cash.  So moot point.  I guess if a new Sheik buys Newcastle and drops 600m on players they could work their way up but is that a tradition that needs protecting?  What is sporting about that?  That is just the EPL.. LaLiga has even worse disparity.  I don't know that Europeans really understand what fair or even playing fields even mean.


Soccereconomics says that's the point for local fans.  For the fans of the big clubs, they are pretty much assured watching a victory and their team trounce several also rans, if not the top league in the division.  For the little guys, its the thrill of avoiding relegation, or getting promoted.  The countries are small enough you can pick your poison.

It's a problem though is soccer has a global reach.  The kid watching in Los Angeles or Beijing is going to wear the Real or the Manchester shirt.  He's not following Cadiz or (barring the Netflix series) Sheffield United.  So of course the local fans hate it...but they aren't the market for the megaclubs.

It works the same way with the NBA in Europe.  The kids are buying the Lakers or Golden State t shirts or whoever is the biggest trend at the time.  Local fans may buy the Granada t shirt, but there's not much of a market outside of Granada.

The same thing happened to the film industry in the 21st century.  The market isn't the United States anymore...it's also China.


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## TheVirginian (Apr 20, 2021)

whatithink said:


> All the outrage, esp. from orgs that are crapping themselves as the golden geese are leaving ... F them, they are all about the $ (too).


These are all great points, but if you are like me and you would like to see $ go into the lower levels of soccer worldwide, then the superleague is a big step in the wrong direction.    I want to reign in the whole system of a few big winners.


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## Grace T. (Apr 20, 2021)

TheVirginian said:


> These are all great points, but if you are like me and you would like to see $ go into the lower levels of soccer worldwide, then the superleague is a big step in the wrong direction.    I want to reign in the whole system of a few big winners.


Then you must love the MLS with its joint ownership and salary caps, it's basically an equivalent playing field.  Yeah, you have teams that have a run (like Seattle recently) or teams that don't click (like the Galaxy recently) but it's basically parity across the board.  There aren't any teams that really can dominate year over year because you can't pour in the money thats needed to dominate.  It also makes for fairly mediocre soccer.


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## jpeter (Apr 20, 2021)

To me the big problem with this offering is it's just like MLS, it's not really a sport of competition where you earn and keep your place based on results on the field or not.  New teams can't promote and existing ones stay no matter what. No regulation or promotion or any qualifications  like you need to get into the champions league. Just buy your way in and set for life no matter the results are. This is not really competition but rather a faux way to get a participation trophy.

all it comes down to who has the financial backing to participate just like MLS, nothing else plain and simple like a rich person's fight club.

What's funny is now the Europeans are getting a taste of what we have to deal all the time with in the USA with our closed off owner driven systems in place like MLS.   We should all protest MLS, SUM and they rest who have been and still do the exact same things.


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## Grace T. (Apr 20, 2021)

jpeter said:


> To me the big problem with this offering is it's just like MLS, it's not really a sport of competition where you earn and keep your place based on results on the field or not.  New teams can't promote and existing ones stay no matter what. No regulation or promotion or any qualifications  like you need to get into the champions league. Just buy your way in and set for life no matter the results are. This is not really competition but rather a faux way to get a participation trophy.
> 
> all it comes down to who has the financial backing to participate just like MLS, nothing else plain and simple like a rich person's fight club.
> 
> What's funny is now the Europeans are getting a taste of what we have to deal all the time with in the USA with our closed off owner driven systems in place like MLS.   We should all protest MLS, SUM and they rest who have been and still do the exact same things.


The MLS is very different.  It's not only a closed league but it's also a joint ownership.  What's kept the fundamentals working to date is the constant buy in by new owners for new teams, which keeps it functioning a bit like a pyramid scheme.  Add in salary caps and transfer payment limitations and basically what you have is a league of roughly equal parity across the board.

As others have said, how likely are the big 6 EPL clubs or the big 3 La Liga clubs going to face relegation?


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## whatithink (Apr 20, 2021)

TheVirginian said:


> These are all great points, but if you are like me and you would like to see $ go into the lower levels of soccer worldwide, then the superleague is a big step in the wrong direction.    I want to reign in the whole system of a few big winners.


But they are all businesses, not charities. Why should any of the big 12, who earn their own money, who take their own risks, who have large debts to service, help or care about any other team in any other league? 

This is the entertainment business, pure and simple. They are selling entertainment via sport. Should a big Hollywood studio be forced to give money to a small studio in Boise, Idaho, to 'support" local movie making?


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## notintheface (Apr 20, 2021)

whatithink said:


> Why should any of the big 12, who earn their own money, who take their own risks, who have large debts to service, help or care about any other team in any other league?


Because without other teams in other leagues they will have precisely fuck-all for player development. Who buys a Dani Carvajal jersey????? Barca being $1B in debt, look, I'm sorry, but maybe don't be spending $120M each on Coutinho and Griezmann. "We have to do this to ensure our financial situation", fuck off, if Messi says he won't play for a super league club then this thing is over before it starts.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Apr 20, 2021)

Breaking news!  Chelsea is pulling out.  Man U is making a U turn.  The fans have spoken!!!       Why cant parents do the same in Socal.  Allow ECNL to include teams that are in inner cities.  Why is everything in the South OC.   You take a team from the inner city and they will crush plenty of South OC  teams.   Get ECNL and DA to be one league and get a couple of inner city clubs to join.


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## Desert Hound (Apr 20, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> As others have said, how likely are the big 6 EPL clubs or the big 3 La Liga clubs going to face relegation?


Not much. But lets take a look. 

Atletico Madrid: Since 1928 they have played in the 2nd league for a total of 6 seasons. 4 of those seasons were in the early 30s. 
Real Madrid: Since 1928 never relegated
Barcelona: It looks like 1 time in the 30s. 

Juventus: 1 time since 1929
AC Milan: 3 times since 1929
Inter Milan: Never

Man U: Last time they were not in the top division was the mid 30s
Man City: They have been up and down a fair amount. However last time was 2001
Arsenal: Last time they were not in the top league was 1914
Chelsea: 9 times since 1929. The last being 1988
Tottenham: A lot of seasons in Div 2. However the last time was in the 1977
Liverpool: Since 1904 8 seasons in Div 2. The last time was 1961


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## whatithink (Apr 20, 2021)

Desert Hound said:


> Not much. But lets take a look.
> 
> Atletico Madrid: Since 1928 they have played in the 2nd league for a total of 6 seasons. 4 of those seasons were in the early 30s.
> Real Madrid: Since 1928 never relegated
> ...


Off the top of my head, Juventus were relegated for corruption, won Serie B and then won every Serie A since (but won't this year).

Manchester United were relegated in the early 70s, around that time period, put down by a goal from Denis Law (ex. Man U playing for City).


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## whatithink (Apr 20, 2021)

notintheface said:


> Because without other teams in other leagues they will have precisely fuck-all for player development. Who buys a Dani Carvajal jersey????? Barca being $1B in debt, look, I'm sorry, but maybe don't be spending $120M each on Coutinho and Griezmann. "We have to do this to ensure our financial situation", fuck off, if Messi says he won't play for a super league club then this thing is over before it starts.


The only clubs who can pay Messi what he wants are the ones in the super league, PSG aside. The only reason PSG isn't one of them is a small matter of a WC in Qatar.

These clubs vacuum up lots of youth players to fund their operations. They hope some may make it, but they know they will net a profit from selling them on at some point. Look at Chelsea with 30+ players out on loan. They sold De Briun, Salah, Lukaku and others - no patience, just a business model. Bayern buy anyone who's any good in Germany so that they can stay at the top. 

Maybe UEFA/FIFA should regulate on clubs hoarding youth players, maybe they should regulate on the loan system, maybe they should regulate on agents bleeding the game, maybe they should get serious about FFP, maybe pigs will fly.

It looks like its all starting to fold anyway.


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## Messi>CR7 (Apr 20, 2021)

This is what the smartest man in football said about the Super League:

_"It is not a sport where the relation between effort and success does not exist".  It is not a sport where success is already guaranteed or it doesn't matter if you lose. I said many times, I want the best competition. It is not fair when one team fight, fight, fight at the top and cannot be qualified because it is just for a few teams."_

I think Pep knows what's good for football.


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## whatithink (Apr 20, 2021)

So apparently Chelsea players held a meeting with the CEO, reasons for not participating for the players ... "several international players spoke up and stated in no uncertain terms that they would not countenance a future in which they were barred from playing at World Cups, European Championships and other major tournaments. "

Although in the same meeting, assuming if they could still play internationals ... "players also raised the question of whether they would be in line for enhanced contracts given the influx of money that would flow into the club’s coffers if the Super League began as planned."

Everyone wants a piece I guess.


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## whatithink (Apr 20, 2021)

Messi>CR7 said:


> This is what the smartest man in football said about the Super League:
> 
> _"It is not a sport where the relation between effort and success does not exist".  It is not a sport where success is already guaranteed or it doesn't matter if you lose. I said many times, I want the best competition. It is not fair when one team fight, fight, fight at the top and cannot be qualified because it is just for a few teams."_
> 
> I think Pep knows what's good for football.


He said sport, not (just) football. So that would rule out all the US closed leagues then I guess - MLS, NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL.


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## whatithink (Apr 20, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> The MLS is very different.  It's not only a closed league but it's also a joint ownership.  What's kept the fundamentals working to date is the constant buy in by new owners for new teams, which keeps it functioning a bit like a pyramid scheme.  Add in salary caps and transfer payment limitations and basically what you have is a league of roughly equal parity across the board.
> 
> As others have said, how likely are the big 6 EPL clubs or the big 3 La Liga clubs going to face relegation?


It never ceases to amaze me how Americans are 100% OK with a "socialized" sports system while socialism is a dirty word in general. Of course the collective in this instance is a bunch of billionaires pocketing enormous amounts. Cartels like this would be broken up in any other industry. 

In a country as capitalist as this, its a real head scratcher for me.


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## Desert Hound (Apr 20, 2021)

whatithink said:


> Off the top of my head, Juventus were relegated for corruption, won Serie B and then won every Serie A since (but won't this year).
> 
> Manchester United were relegated in the early 70s, around that time period, put down by a goal from Denis Law (ex. Man U playing for City).


Needless to say, I had to look up those stats regarding relegation.


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## notintheface (Apr 20, 2021)

whatithink said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how Americans are 100% OK with a "socialized" sports system while socialism is a dirty word in general. Of course the collective in this instance is a bunch of billionaires pocketing enormous amounts. Cartels like this would be broken up in any other industry.
> 
> In a country as capitalist as this, its a real head scratcher for me.


Welcome to America. People want good healthcare and sensible regulations about firearm ownership too, but what are you going to do. Insert the Usual Suspects "the greatest trick" quote.

It's good to see that the Super League is squashed before it got anywhere. It's good to see Woodward out; maybe this means the Glazers will bail or that the 50+1 rule will get traction.


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## whatithink (Apr 20, 2021)

Desert Hound said:


> Needless to say, I had to look up those stats regarding relegation.


I have a wealth of (mostly) useless information in my head just waiting for an opportunity to make me think I'm smarter than the average bear


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## whatithink (Apr 20, 2021)

notintheface said:


> Welcome to America. People want good healthcare and sensible regulations about firearm ownership too, but what are you going to do. Insert the Usual Suspects "the greatest trick" quote.
> 
> It's good to see that the Super League is squashed before it got anywhere. It's good to see Woodward out; maybe this means the Glazers will bail or that the 50+1 rule will get traction.


Yeah, I can't see the 50+1 rule getting any traction, that's just pols playing to the audience, e.g. who's going to come up with the billions required to buy out the existing owners?

Glazers have put up with crap since they took Man United over for 10M quid, and leveraged the club for 500M. They've taken, something like, 50M a year out in dividends, or so I read. That's since, what 2005 maybe. Maybe if someone offered them the $2.4B that MU are supposed to be worth they'd take it, but who is going to do that ... and who says they'd be better. Just look at Liverpool, their fans drove out Hicks et al and then got Henry. He wanted to trademark "Liverpool", has a policy of zero investment from his pocket (always debt leverage) and is all in for the super league.


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## tjinaz (Apr 20, 2021)

whatithink said:


> Yeah, I can't see the 50+1 rule getting any traction, that's just pols playing to the audience, e.g. who's going to come up with the billions required to buy out the existing owners?
> 
> Glazers have put up with crap since they took Man United over for 10M quid, and leveraged the club for 500M. They've taken, something like, 50M a year out in dividends, or so I read. That's since, what 2005 maybe. Maybe if someone offered them the $2.4B that MU are supposed to be worth they'd take it, but who is going to do that ... and who says they'd be better. Just look at Liverpool, their fans drove out Hicks et al and then got Henry. He wanted to trademark "Liverpool", has a policy of zero investment from his pocket (always debt leverage) and is all in for the super league.


Yea but Henry is running LFC smart.  They are winning and producing results.  Before this the LFC fans loved FSG.


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## whatithink (Apr 20, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Yea but Henry is running LFC smart.  They are winning and producing results.  Before this the LFC fans loved FSG.


They weren't too happy with the trademark fiasco. Winning the EPL provides forgiveness for a lot though.


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## RJonesUSC (Apr 20, 2021)

Desert Hound said:


> FIFA is trying to kill it.
> 
> According to the news I heard FIFA is saying players in this league will not be able to participate in the world cup.


I've read something similar with referees not being able to get FIFA games if they choose to ref in this league.


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