# LAFC Slammers Leaving DA



## Soccer

http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2018/06/21/lafc-slammers-joins-ecnl-for-the-2018-19-season/


----------



## Savage

That's a big loss for GDA.


----------



## futboldad1

Savage said:


> That's a big loss for GDA.


I wonder if Southern California will follow the lead of the rest of the country with some more big guns dropping out over the next 12 months......will be interesting to see how it all ends.


----------



## jpeter

futboldad1 said:


> I wonder if Southern California may well follow the lead of the rest of the country with some more big guns dropping out......will be interesting to see how  it all ends.


When blues drop out also ecnl will back where things started.  

Ussda is out of touch and cost way to much in terms of what has to be given up vs what girls clubs are looking for.


----------



## MarkM

Soccer said:


> http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2018/06/21/lafc-slammers-joins-ecnl-for-the-2018-19-season/


Big loss.  Let the dominoes fall.  

Weird how that played out with Slammers leaving first and essentially creating another club to compete with.


----------



## Soccer43

jpeter said:


> When blues drop out also ecnl will back where things started.
> 
> Ussda is out of touch and cost way to much in terms of what has to be given up vs what girls clubs are looking for.


Blues was never all in in the first place.  Their top players/top teams in 01 and 02 stayed ECNL this past year.


----------



## Toepoke

Wow this is a huge blow to GDA.  With Slammers and LAFC both joining the other powerhouse clubs that left (PDA, Hawks, Eclipse, FC Stars) it's hard not to see that GDA isn't going as planned. Those clubs have history of placing girls in top college programs and on national teams. I know it's only been one year but the boys side didn't have this when it was created.


----------



## GoWest

Toepoke said:


> Wow this is a huge blow to GDA.  With Slammers and LAFC both joining the other powerhouse clubs that left (PDA, Hawks, Eclipse, FC Stars) it's hard not to see that GDA isn't going as planned. Those clubs have history of placing girls in top college programs and on national teams. I know it's only been one year but the boys side didn't have this when it was created.


Is Crossfire Premier (NW) a dual or GDA only club?


----------



## timbuck

Toepoke said:


> Wow this is a huge blow to GDA.  With Slammers and LAFC both joining the other powerhouse clubs that left (PDA, Hawks, Eclipse, FC Stars) it's hard not to see that GDA isn't going as planned. Those clubs have history of placing girls in top college programs and on national teams. I know it's only been one year but the boys side didn't have this when it was created.


The boys side didn’t have a competing, established, elite league (Ie- ECNL)


----------



## NJSoccer

futboldad1 said:


> I wonder if Southern California will follow the lead of the rest of the country with some more big guns dropping out over the next 12 months......will be interesting to see how it all ends.


Is there an additional reason why the clubs can't play in both leagues? Is it that USSF is asking "all in" or is it ECNL asking for "all in". 

For example, last year, when NYCFC was being formed, ECNL supposedly disallowed DOC of World Class from coaching in the games. 

This year, the clubs in the NE have done a lot of math, and switching from GDA to ECNL meant way more money for the club, and significantly less oversight from anyone:
- coaches involved for 6 months instead of 10 (big issue for those who double as college coaches)
- basically 2 training sessions in ECNL a week instead of 3-4 in GDA (for many clubs it was just 3 mandatory sessions)
- clubs leaving GDA were given an allocation of having an extra ECNL team per age group


----------



## Lambchop

Soccer43 said:


> Blues was never all in in the first place.  Their top players/top teams in 01 and 02 stayed ECNL this past year.


They stayed because they all played high school for their coach at a private school.  Most of them will be gone in one year.


----------



## gefelchnik

NJSoccer said:


> Is there an additional reason why the clubs can't play in both leagues? Is it that USSF is asking "all in" or is it ECNL asking for "all in".
> 
> For example, last year, when NYCFC was being formed, ECNL supposedly disallowed DOC of World Class from coaching in the games.
> 
> This year, the clubs in the NE have done a lot of math, and switching from GDA to ECNL meant way more money for the club, and significantly less oversight from anyone:
> - coaches involved for 6 months instead of 10 (big issue for those who double as college coaches)
> - basically 2 training sessions in ECNL a week instead of 3-4 in GDA (for many clubs it was just 3 mandatory sessions)
> - clubs leaving GDA were given an allocation of having an extra ECNL team per age group


Setting aside everything else (each league has some pros/cons) - it all comes down to what you have in your list.....the financial impact on the clubs.  

There are other added expenses of DA, but the main ones have to do with the additional time commitment for coaches, which ultimately costs money.

If a club (which is a business) can retain customers with ECNL (with lower expenses), they will do this.  I think the open question is can the clubs retain customers offering ECNL instead of DA.  I think it will take a few years for this to shake out so this question can be answered.


----------



## ChipShot

I think these defections have more to do with club finances than an indictment of GDA. There are pros and cons to both leagues as has been debated on this board. After one year I don't think you can really tell how GDA will shake out but what you can tell is whether your club can afford to continue in the league, especially when the trend is going towards fully funding the teams and possibly expanding at two age groups.


----------



## GoWest

ChipShot said:


> I think these defections have more to do with club finances than an indictment of GDA. There are pros and cons to both leagues as has been debated on this board. After one year I don't think you can really tell how GDA will shake out but what you can tell is whether your club can afford to continue in the league, especially when the trend is going towards fully funding the teams and possibly expanding at two age groups.


Some good points. I wonder though if LAFC Slammers, with LAFC $$$$ backing, is really an issue?


----------



## timbuck

Wasn’t the LAFC and Slammers affiliation done to give Slammers an easy way to get in with DA?
Now that both are ecnl-  will they still be LAFC Slammers?  Or just LAFC?


----------



## gefelchnik

GoWest said:


> Some good points. I wonder though if LAFC Slammers, with LAFC $$$$ backing, is really an issue?


To fully fund the program it costs about $750,000 per year.  Its a lot of money, regardless of who is backing it.

If you can have the same customers, and they are just as happy with ECNL, then that's the decisions we are seeing.


----------



## Kicker4Life

I wonder if it will continue to be Fully Funded


----------



## Penalty Kicks Stink

The issue was exposure, ECNL had 3x the college coach exposure than DA did.  Coaches want to see the key match ups like Michigan Hawks vs. Slammers not Slammers vs. LA Premier or Pats.

If your going to sacrifice playing HS and training 4 days a week for barely any exposure whats the point


----------



## Soccer

Kicker4Life said:


> I wonder if it will continue to be Fully Funded


I hear no.  Other thing I hear is LAFC Slammers was going to be forced to have the teams practice in LA by DA.


----------



## LadiesMan217

Kicker4Life said:


> I wonder if it will continue to be Fully Funded


Was never fully funded.


----------



## Soccer

LadiesMan217 said:


> Was never fully funded.


Correct. Dues were covered, but not travel.


----------



## LadiesMan217

Soccer said:


> Correct. Dues were covered, but not travel.


 And travel was grossly inflated as per clubs usual business model.


----------



## timbuck

So if an 05 player was going to play on Slammers (Newport) DA team -  what were they supposed to have paid?
And what will they pay now if they are ecnl?

Any impact on the rest of the clubs costs?

Or on how the coaches will be paid?  Or how the coaches will be aligned?


----------



## Kicker4Life

LadiesMan217 said:


> Was never fully funded.


Yes. My bad....meant partially funded


----------



## Kicker4Life

timbuck said:


> So if an 05 player was going to play on Slammers (Newport) DA team -  what were they supposed to have paid?
> And what will they pay now if they are ecnl?
> 
> Any impact on the rest of the clubs costs?
> 
> Or on how the coaches will be paid?  Or how the coaches will be aligned?


Newport didn’t have DA


----------



## gefelchnik

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> The issue was exposure, ECNL had 3x the college coach exposure than DA did.  Coaches want to see the key match ups like Michigan Hawks vs. Slammers not Slammers vs. LA Premier or Pats.
> 
> If your going to sacrifice playing HS and training 4 days a week for barely any exposure whats the point


The first part is not true.  Last season at ECNL events, there were top coaches at our games.  This season at the DA events, there were top coaches at our games...in NC, I think every top 25 school watched one of our games.  So not sure where you are getting barely any exposure.  Also, if you consider "having to practice 4 times a week" a sacrifice instead of an opportunity, but you are worried about college exposure...i wouldn't worry about the exposure piece.  The top coaches are looking for the kids who enjoy practicing 4 times a week.

Your second point is correct, the coaches want to watch competitive games between the top clubs.  So if DA was to continue to lose top clubs, it will be harder to get those matchups in the showcases... although there is still some depth between Socal and Texas.  But the list of 9 new clubs they added (replacing Michigan Hawks with Michigan Jaguars) will be problematic.  It is also interesting that DA says that a main criteria to get added is "player production history and player pool depth"....but I don't think any of the 9 new clubs have this.  Seems desperate.


----------



## Soccermom1721

timbuck said:


> Wasn’t the LAFC and Slammers affiliation done to give Slammers an easy way to get in with DA?
> Now that both are ecnl-  will they still be LAFC Slammers?  Or just LAFC?


The answer is “no”.
The team will be LAFC SLAMMERS ECNL


----------



## Soccermom1721

Soccer said:


> I hear no.  Other thing I hear is LAFC Slammers was going to be forced to have the teams practice in LA by DA.


This is all false.


----------



## Soccermom1721

Kicker4Life said:


> Newport didn’t have DA


The current LAFC SLAMMERS DA team is out of Newport Beach. It was formed from last year’s 2003 ECNL team who trains in Newport


----------



## timbuck

Soccermom1721 said:


> The answer is “no”.
> The team will be LAFC SLAMMERS ECNL


And will there also be a Slammers ECNL?  (Which I guess would be “Newport Slammers”
Or “Original s Slammers).


----------



## Soccermom1721

timbuck said:


> And will there also be a Slammers ECNL?  (Which I guess would be “Newport Slammers”
> Or “Original s Slammers).


2 teams:
SLAMMERS FC ECNL
LAFC SLAMMERS ECNL


----------



## Soccermom1721

Soccermom1721 said:


> 2 teams:
> SLAMMERS FC ECNL
> LAFC SLAMMERS ECNL


LAFC SLAMMERS ECNL is last year’s ECNL team and this year’s DA team.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Soccermom1721 said:


> The current LAFC SLAMMERS DA team is out of Newport Beach. It was formed from last year’s 2003 ECNL team who trains in Newport


But LAFC Slammers as a DA organization was not Slammers proper (meaning Slammers FC), correct?

Going forward, will there will be 2 Slammers ECNL teams, LAFC Slammers and Slammers that both are based out of Newport?


----------



## Soccer

Soccermom1721 said:


> This is all false.


Check your sources.  Mine are pretty credible.

You should check with WK, on the LA practice thing.  Being forced by DA.

The DA players now having to pay dues was told to me from an Admin in the LAFC DA program.

But maybe they tell a different story to parents.

Either way I have mad respect for Slammers in pulling this off.


----------



## Soccer

Kicker4Life said:


> But LAFC Slammers as a DA organization was not Slammers proper (meaning Slammers FC), correct?
> 
> Going forward, will there will be 2 Slammers ECNL teams, LAFC Slammers and Slammers that both are based out of Newport?


They were the same but they were not.  Uniforms were different.  Coaches were different.  But DOC the same. Admins at office the same. 

It was convenient to say the same at times and different at others.

The announcement calls it out as a Sister Club.

So we will see how this works.


----------



## GoWest

timbuck said:


> And will there also be a Slammers ECNL?  (Which I guess would be “Newport Slammers”
> Or “Original s Slammers).


There are currently Slammers FC ECNL across all age groups. I heard that each team was designated a 'core' group (2-4 players) to rebuild the ECNL teams around because of the exodus of their top ECNL teams to DA to immediately populate those ranks with highly competitive teams. Slammers FC was aware that it would be a season or so to get their ECNL teams back into ECNL national championship form. It looks like several  age groups qualified for ECNL CL play....how far those teams go is yet to be seen.

There are currently LAFC Slammers DA teams across all age groups. The u18/19 team is made up entirely of their former ECNL NC teams. No changes to that roster. The u16/17 roster is more of a hybrid plus some new players (see 03 SJ from Blues)....etc on down.

It is my understanding that when this season is over for both ECNL and DA, LAFC Slammers and Slammers FC will play in the ECNL league. On paper, two distinct clubs while in reality they will share the breadth of coaching expertise that put the club on the national radar years ago.

Will Blues follow this model? If Surf remains as aggressive as they have been historically maybe they parlay the WC gobble-up and form an OC Surf ECNL? All this of course IMHO. I would like to see Surf do this to get the ECNL SW division to 12.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I know the U16/17 team attracted girls from all over and the partially  funded part had to be a big part of it.  I wonder how many stay now that it won’t be funded? Hopefully they had tip off the players earlier since many other teams have already made their rosters already for next year.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Soccer said:


> They were the same but they were not.  Uniforms were different.  Coaches were different.  But DOC the same. Admins at office the same.
> 
> It was convenient to say the same at times and different at others.
> 
> The announcement calls it out as a Sister Club.
> 
> So we will see how this works.


That’s a surprising move to allow essentially one club, 2 ECNL teams both serving the exact same geographic area.  It looks like a signal to Surf oC that if they give up DA they could could retain ECNL as a “Sister Club”.  Am I readin this right?


----------



## dreamz

Soccer said:


> Check your sources.  Mine are pretty credible.
> 
> You should check with WK, on the LA practice thing.  Being forced by DA.
> 
> The DA players now having to pay dues was told to me from an Admin in the LAFC DA program.
> 
> But maybe they tell a different story to parents.
> 
> Either way I have mad respect for Slammers in pulling this off.


Let's think this through even more. LAFC Slammers pulling out of DA, puts pressure on OC Surf and Blues to do the same. Which in turn puts pressure on Surf and Real So Cal to follow. Eagles probably jumps in just because and then all of a sudden, what happens to Legends, Beach, Albion, Pats, Carlsbad and LAP who are left in DA with no ECNL option to jump to? GDA isn't going to add more DA teams in SoCal just to add them. Obviously the market wants ECNL or this shift wouldn't be happening. That puts those clubs back where they started. With the exodus of the DA clubs in the east and now the potential for more clubs to leave in SoCal, GDA takes a massive hit which could potentially damage the program. Who follows after SoCal if more than LAFC Slammers leaves? 
If clubs get back to ECNL with the guarantee of two teams in each age group then that means clubs like RSC, Blues and OC Surf have two ECNL teams. That impacts DPL because players would be better off playing on ECNL teams with their format than DPL with theirs. 

The initial news of LAFC Slammers pulling out is just the tip of the iceberg about what's coming in SoCal. I don't think we are done seeing clubs jump back to ECNL and the next week will be interesting. Even the fence sitter clubs may may to climb back over to ECNL. Who knows what ECNL is saying. Last chance? Do it this year or the door is closed? Those must be interesting conversations being had with CL and SoCal DOC's right now.

This thread is going to be really interesting as things develop.


----------



## timbuck

DAs saving grace will be if the clubs in it can support fully funded programs while also being able to afford the “best” coaches.


----------



## dreamz

timbuck said:


> DAs saving grace will be if the clubs in it can support fully funded programs while also being able to afford the “best” coaches.


I don't think I agree with this. Pats is fully-funded and that hasn't improved their DA teams by bringing better players.
I think players would pay to play on good teams, be able to play high school and get the college exposure they need while not having to practice 4-days per week. I know that's what my preference would be. Free doesn't mean better. It just means free.


----------



## Kicker4Life

dreamz said:


> Let's think this through even more. LAFC Slammers pulling out of DA, puts pressure on OC Surf and Blues to do the same. Which in turn puts pressure on Surf and Real So Cal to follow. Eagles probably jumps in just because and then all of a sudden, what happens to Legends, Beach, Albion, Pats, Carlsbad and LAP who are left in DA with no ECNL option to jump to? GDA isn't going to add more DA teams in SoCal just to add them. Obviously the market wants ECNL or this shift wouldn't be happening. That puts those clubs back where they started. With the exodus of the DA clubs in the east and now the potential for more clubs to leave in SoCal, GDA takes a massive hit which could potentially damage the program. Who follows after SoCal if more than LAFC Slammers leaves?
> If clubs get back to ECNL with the guarantee of two teams in each age group then that means clubs like RSC, Blues and OC Surf have two ECNL teams. That impacts DPL because players would be better off playing on ECNL teams with their format than DPL with theirs.
> 
> The initial news of LAFC Slammers pulling out is just the tip of the iceberg about what's coming in SoCal. I don't think we are done seeing clubs jump back to ECNL and the next week will be interesting. Even the fence sitter clubs may may to climb back over to ECNL. Who knows what ECNL is saying. Last chance? Do it this year or the door is closed? Those must be interesting conversations being had with CL and SoCal DOC's right now.
> 
> This thread is going to be really interesting as things develop.


The only problem with this is that Eagles and RSC don’t have ECNL.  Unless your saying they go crawling back and reapply?

I wouldn’t be surprised if FRAM doesn’t make some bold Coaching moves in an effort to get ECNL in the SouthBay.


----------



## timbuck

Kicker4Life said:


> The only problem with this is that Eagles and RSC don’t have ECNL.  Unless your saying they go crawling back and reapply?
> 
> I wouldn’t be surprised if FRAM doesn’t make some bold Coaching moves in an effort to get ECNL in the SouthBay.


Would ECNL open up tbeir system to put a nail in the DA coffin on the west coast?


----------



## Soccer

timbuck said:


> Would ECNL open up tbeir system to put a nail in the DA coffin on the west coast?


They easily could.  A league could look like:

Slammers
Blues
Strikers
Arsenal
OC Surf
Surf
LA Breakers
Sharks
RSC
Eagles
LAFC Slammers
Legends
Beach
Heat FC

Play each team once.  Not twice.

Watch the Texas clubs drop DA, nail in coffin.

Albion, LAPFC, LA G and Pat’s could have their DA and DPL. With the Arizona clubs.


----------



## timbuck

Soccer said:


> They easily could.  A league could look like:
> 
> Slammers
> Blues
> Strikers
> Arsenal
> OC Surf
> Surf
> LA Breakers
> Sharks
> RSC
> Eagles
> LAFC Slammers
> Legends
> Beach
> Heat FC
> 
> Play each team once.  Not twice.
> 
> Watch the Texas clubs drop DA, nail in coffin.
> 
> Albion, LAPFC, LA G and Pat’s could have their DA and DPL. With the Arizona clubs.


Or they could just all play in scdsl flight 1.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I think everyone is over reacting.  My prediction is that we so no more changes locally for this year.


----------



## dreamz

Kicker4Life said:


> The only problem with this is that Eagles and RSC don’t have ECNL.  Unless your saying they go crawling back and reapply?
> 
> I wouldn’t be surprised if FRAM doesn’t make some bold Coaching moves in an effort to get ECNL in the SouthBay.


ECNL would take them back. They were ECNL once before and it helps the ECNL cause in SoCal. Rumour has it those conversations have already taken place. If ECNL wanted to put the proverbial nail in the DA coffin they would take Legends and Beach along with the others that come back and that would be that. FRAM doesn't get in no matter what they do. LA Breakers has ECNL now and his filled in the area between OC and the valley. FRAM not needed. Beach and Legends getting in to ECNL would leave no competition in SoCal in the DA and ECNL is back on top. ECNL needs to put the politics aside and take Beach and Legends (if they want in) and then they would have the best clubs in SoCal. 
So many directions this could go.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccer said:


> They easily could.  A league could look like:
> 
> Slammers
> Blues
> Strikers
> Arsenal
> OC Surf
> Surf
> LA Breakers
> Sharks
> RSC
> Eagles
> LAFC Slammers
> Legends
> Beach
> Heat FC
> 
> Play each team once.  Not twice.
> 
> Watch the Texas clubs drop DA, nail in coffin.
> 
> Albion, LAPFC, LA G and Pat’s could have their DA and DPL. With the Arizona clubs.


If you take away the OC from Surf, split LAFC and Slammers into two separate teams and change the LA Breakers to LA Rampage and I would think that I was looking at an old CSL Premier League or Far West Regional League division back in 2006 when my player started playing club.


----------



## Coke bottle eyes

Simisoccerfan said:


> I think everyone is over reacting.  My prediction is that we so no more changes locally for this year.


I wouldn’t be so sure about this not happening this week. This whole topic is the buzz at the DA and ECNL playoffs right now.


----------



## SoccerFan

Soccer said:


> They easily could.  A league could look like:
> 
> Slammers
> Blues
> Strikers
> Arsenal
> OC Surf
> Surf
> LA Breakers
> Sharks
> RSC
> Eagles
> LAFC Slammers
> Legends
> Beach
> Heat FC
> 
> Play each team once.  Not twice.
> 
> Watch the Texas clubs drop DA, nail in coffin.
> 
> Albion, LAPFC, LA G and Pat’s could have their DA and DPL. With the Arizona clubs.


Dreaming?? Or is it your nightmare?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Coke bottle eyes said:


> I wouldn’t be so sure about this not happening this week. This whole topic is the buzz at the DA and ECNL playoffs right now.


So which playoff are you at right now to hear this buzz since you can’t be at both?


----------



## RocketFuel

Long time, no post......here is my 2 cents.  How many girls played DA?  How many of those girls play national team....maybe 0.1%?  So 99.9 % of all girls at this level have one thing in mind....use soccer to get into college.  Having a daughter that played both, ECNL was great.  DA removed the high school piece, threatened that DA was the way to national team (not true because if you are good enough they will find you), made college coaches go all over the place (choose between Phoenix or North Carolina for example), choose poor sites for showcases (Phoenix has stable weather, California has stable weather, Vegas has stable weather...it was 35 and sleeting at my daughter's NC game), do not play EVERY u16/17 game at the same time all over the complex, just use the same fields spread out all day, let the girls sub so if college coaches come later and your daughter has a chance to get back into the game (maybe follow GIRLS COLLEGE rules).  I hope that the big clubs look at what 99.9% of what their players want which is good college exposure and development.  I hope that the other clubs save face and follow the LAFC move.  ECNL would do anything to get those clubs back.  Have 2 ECNL at each age group this year.  DA has to be more flexible.  If the big name clubs do leave DA, college coaches will not be following DA like they are now.


----------



## Coke bottle eyes

Simisoccerfan said:


> So which playoff are you at right now to hear this buzz since you can’t be at both?[/QUOTE
> I am in WA and have lots of friends in SD.


----------



## Soccer

SoccerFan said:


> Dreaming?? Or is it your nightmare?


Pat’s, LAPFC, Galaxy nightmare.


----------



## Dos Equis

dreamz said:


> ECNL would take them back. They were ECNL once before and it helps the ECNL cause in SoCal. Rumour has it those conversations have already taken place. If ECNL wanted to put the proverbial nail in the DA coffin they would take Legends and Beach along with the others that come back and that would be that. FRAM doesn't get in no matter what they do. LA Breakers has ECNL now and his filled in the area between OC and the valley. FRAM not needed. Beach and Legends getting in to ECNL would leave no competition in SoCal in the DA and ECNL is back on top. ECNL needs to put the politics aside and take Beach and Legends (if they want in) and then they would have the best clubs in SoCal.
> So many directions this could go.


Seems a bit inconsistent -- if Breakers filled the South Bay need, making FRAM unnecessary, why would Beach be invited to ECNL?  Not saying they do not merit inclusion, but you cannot have it both ways.  If FRAM's recent performance is just not worthy, that is a better argument.

However, for those with insight into the inner workings of ECNL, or who have paid attention to their growth strategy in the past, for good or bad, ECNL prioritizes relationships with DOC's and Techinical Directors when choosing clubs.  So any addition of a Legends or a Beach (or an invite for FRAM) likely comes down to relationships.  Call it politics -- its the game they need to play, if they want into ECNL.

Forgotten in all of this is the power US Soccer still holds.  While their recent DA league additions are suspect, and the defections noteworthy, US Soccer could always go the route of a smaller DA league, with more financial and technical support per club from US Soccer.  Make DA more unique from ECNL, as it should always have been, and resist the temptation and calls to make it more of  a mirror image.  If I were Legends and Beach, I would be advocating that to US Soccer right now.   I have outlined how that might work before, so will forgo repeating it now.  One can dream.


----------



## GoWest

Dos Equis said:


> Seems a bit inconsistent -- if Breakers filled the South Bay need, making FRAM unnecessary, why would Beach be invited to ECNL?  Not saying they do not merit inclusion, but you cannot have it both ways.  If FRAM's recent performance is just not worthy, that is a better argument.
> 
> However, for those with insight into the inner workings of ECNL, or who have paid attention to their growth strategy in the past, for good or bad, ECNL prioritizes relationships with DOC's and Techinical Directors when choosing clubs.  So any addition of a Legends or a Beach (or an invite for FRAM) likely comes down to relationships.  Call it politics -- its the game they need to play, if they want into ECNL.
> 
> Forgotten in all of this is the power US Soccer still holds.  While their recent DA league additions are suspect, and the defections noteworthy, US Soccer could always go the route of a smaller DA league, with more financial and technical support per club from US Soccer.  Make DA more unique from ECNL, as it should always have been, and resist the temptation and calls to make it more of  a mirror image.  If I were Legends and Beach, I would be advocating that to US Soccer right now.   I have outlined how that might work before, so will forgo repeating it now.  One can dream.


One DA club in SoCal. One DA club in NorCal. On and on, replicated in each major market....then % can go to their hearts content!


----------



## T1k1Taka24

I can't speak to ecnl vs da since this will be my daughter's first year playing da.  However, I can say that the players that she will be practicing and playing with this upcoming season will be top notch.  


I've only really gotten to watch trainings at 2 DA clubs, Pats and Galaxy.  Both training programs were excellent, regardless of the clubs' results as far as wins and losses.  If my daughter and I judged the programs on record alone, then our decision would have been different.  Luckily, we actually went to check out the product instead of just looking at the packaging.


I was hoping that she would be able to play against Slammers since one of her old teammates will be on that team.  Playing against her old teammate would be an excellent gauge of how far my kid has come and how far she needs to go.  Because that's what it's really about, my daughter's individual journey.  But it is what it is.  


My daughter and I are going to let this all play out.   I'm sure that for the time being, she will get the best possible exposure that our time, money and effort can afford.  We will see what this year has to offer and then re-evaluate at the end of the season, which is what we do every year anyway. 


I will say though that, yes, free may not necessarily be better as far as the program, but for our family, free is empirically $7500 to $10,000 better.  As far as driving distance and time, free  is also 1 to 2 hours better per day.  We don't have the financial privilege to be able to look a gift horse in the mouth.


----------



## SoccerFan

Soccer said:


> Pat’s, LAPFC, Galaxy nightmare.


Oh! Sounds like your nightmare is the missing high level competition in ECNL!


----------



## MakeAPlay

T1k1Taka24 said:


> I can't speak to ecnl vs da since this will be my daughter's first year playing da.  However, I can say that the players that she will be practicing and playing with this upcoming season will be top notch.
> 
> 
> I've only really gotten to watch trainings at 2 DA clubs, Pats and Galaxy.  Both training programs were excellent, regardless of the clubs' results as far as wins and losses.  If my daughter and I judged the programs on record alone, then our decision would have been different.  Luckily, we actually went to check out the product instead of just looking at the packaging.
> 
> 
> I was hoping that she would be able to play against Slammers since one of her old teammates will be on that team.  Playing against her old teammate would be an excellent gauge of how far my kid has come and how far she needs to go.  Because that's what it's really about, my daughter's individual journey.  But it is what it is.
> 
> 
> My daughter and I are going to let this all play out.   I'm sure that for the time being, she will get the best possible exposure that our time, money and effort can afford.  We will see what this year has to offer and then re-evaluate at the end of the season, which is what we do every year anyway.
> 
> 
> I will say though that, yes, free may not necessarily be better as far as the program, but for our family, free is empirically $7500 to $10,000 better.  As far as driving distance and time, free  is also 1 to 2 hours better per day.  We don't have the financial privilege to be able to look a gift horse in the mouth.


Sometimes it is worth it when you get what you pay for.  I invested $32k into my kids 9 years of club soccer and I got it back the first year of college soccer....  it’s not what you pay it is what you get for what you pay (value) that matters.  Also coaching matters.  You can have all the fancy drills in practice that impress the parents that you wNt but the true test is what schools does your coach/club consistently get his players committed to with significant financial packages AND most importantly how do those players do at those schools.


----------



## GoWest

SoccerFan said:


> Oh! Sounds like your nightmare is the missing high level competition in ECNL!


Yes! Competition has been sketchy without doubt. I've rambled a bit already about the 'soft 2017-2018 ECNL season' so won't continue it here [or did I already do that  ] Someone already mentioned this on this thread or another but college coaches (and even parents like myself) want to see matches between premier programs / players / teams. My player gets better against players that challenge her, players that are crafty, quick, high soccer IQ, etc. Depending upon how things unfold in the next weeks, it will at least be enticing to know my DD will play top level talent @least 4-6 times in league. Plus, the return of the 6 or so premier clubs / teams in other parts of the country (see Michigan Hawks, etc) will make national showcases better worth the players time and the college coaches efforts as they are recruiting....not to mention US Soccer scouts. IMHO it's win-win.


----------



## GoWest

Congratulations to LAFC Slammers u18/19 as they take home the first ever US Soccer Girls Development Academy championship trophy! I think thats like 3 or 4 NC trophy's in the last 4 years for that team? Really an amazing team of players that includes JN and KW (when not on WNT duty) that have found a way to stay focused and consistently play at a high level for so many seasons.

With several returning players including JN and KW it will be fun to watch them battle against Baker Blues (arguably the best team in the country in the u16/17 soon to be u18/19 age bracket) Arsenal and Slammers FC next season.


----------



## push_up

Slammers was not the best team on the field.  Played kick ball the entire second half.  They were dominated in possession, passes, and opportunities.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

push_up said:


> Slammers was not the best team on the field.  Played kick ball the entire second half.  They were dominated in possession, passes, and opportunities.


I thought DA didn't play kickball?


----------



## Justafan

push_up said:


> Slammers was not the best team on the field.  Played kick ball the entire second half.  They were dominated in possession, passes, and opportunities.


The “best” team should be able to figure out a kickball team and beat them, especially at this age.  You watching Spain struggle against Russia right now?  If they can’t figure it out, it’s on them.


----------



## push_up

Sometimes the better team does not win.  It is what it is.


----------



## LadiesMan217

Sheriff Joe said:


> I thought DA didn't play kickball?


The team is leaving DA to go play kickball with the Blues team.


----------



## SoccerFan

LadiesMan217 said:


> The team is leaving DA to go play kickball with the Blues team.


Lol


----------



## LASTMAN14

push_up said:


> Sometimes the better team does not win.  It is what it is.


It's ugly to watch a game like this at the youth level. Far worse when its at the WC.


----------



## ladoctorr

push_up said:


> Slammers was not the best team on the field.  Played kick ball the entire second half.  They were dominated in possession, passes, and opportunities.


Slammers packed it in second half and let Solar move the ball around on 2/3ds of the field, however once they got in there offensive third Solar lacked any creativity to generate legit scoring opportunities. I don't think Slammers played kick ball, and Solar did look really good moving the ball just couldn't crack the defense.


----------



## timbuck

ladoctorr said:


> Slammers packed it in second half and let Solar move the ball around on 2/3ds of the field, however once they got in there offensive third Solar lacked any creativity to generate legit scoring opportunities. I don't think Slammers played kick ball, and Solar did look really good moving the ball just couldn't crack the defense.


Are you sure you aren’t talking about the Russia v Spain game?


----------



## ladoctorr

timbuck said:


> Are you sure you aren’t talking about the Russia v Spain game?


Wasn't quite as bad and the disparity in talent was no where near the same as Spain/Russia, but there were some similarities. When I say not as bad for instance the foul disparity wasn't there, Slammers were protecting a lead not praying for PKs, they did have some counters that could of resulted in goals. Russia Spain was a terrible game. 

If Croatia wants to play for 90 mins they are dangerous vs anyone. If not I sure hope Russia doesn't go to semis, they are awful.


----------



## LASTMAN14

ladoctorr said:


> Wasn't quite as bad and the disparity in talent was no where near the same as Spain/Russia, but there were some similarities. When I say not as bad for instance the foul disparity wasn't there, Slammers were protecting a lead not praying for PKs, they did have some counters that could of resulted in goals. Russia Spain was a terrible game.
> 
> If Croatia wants to play for 90 mins they are dangerous vs anyone. If not I sure hope Russia doesn't go to semis, they are awful.


I’m glad Denmark and Croatia came out to play. Russia was terrible. I do hope Croatia is able to beat a team that plays “crap” soccer.


----------



## espola

LASTMAN14 said:


> I’m glad Denmark and Croatia came out to play. Russia was terrible. I do hope Croatia is able to beat a team that plays “crap” soccer.


The performance of the referees today will make the jobs of weekend club soccer referees more difficult.  "But I saw it was allowed in the World Cup!"


----------



## ladoctorr

espola said:


> The performance of the referees today will make the jobs of weekend club soccer referees more difficult.  "But I saw it was allowed in the World Cup!"


Weekend refs were on the field and didn't tape the game


----------



## pewpew

ladoctorr said:


> Weekend refs were on the field and didn't tape the game


At least you didn't tape the game and were hoping to watch it. Ran into an old soccer buddy yesterday.
"Did you see Spain vs Russia..game ran into OT and Russia won on PKs!!" Thanks dude.
I just nodded like it was no big deal as I walked away and kept shopping.


----------



## espola

pewpew said:


> At least you didn't tape the game and were hoping to watch it. Ran into an old soccer buddy yesterday.
> "Did you see Spain vs Russia..game ran into OT and Russia won on PKs!!" Thanks dude.
> I just nodded like it was no big deal as I walked away and kept shopping.


You should thank him.  He spared you all the crappy parts.


----------



## jose

Lambchop said:


> They stayed because they all played high school for their coach at a private school.  Most of them will be gone in one year.


coincedence that almost the entire team went to the same school.


----------



## timbuck

jose said:


> coincedence that almost the entire team went to the same school.


Nope.  Not even a little bit. I don't think anyone has tried to hide it.


----------



## T1k1Taka24

Any updates on how many players left Slammers and how many stayed?  I know of one family that left because they didn’t like how  it felt like a bait and switch.  I’ve also seen a couple trying out at my kid’s practices recently.

I’m sure the majority would probably stay, but I’m curious how such a late decision would affect their roster.


----------



## Soccer43

Don't think that the DA is selling like it did last year.  Clubs and players took a spin and see it for what it is (and left for ECNL).   Guessing that many from Slammers are not sad to leave DA.  As has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum, DA is supposed to be for NT ID and that is for the smallest group of players.  ECNL, even this past year, is still proving it's value for college recruiting.  Just look at the rosters of the DA this past year and how many got college commits compared to the ECNL players.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Soccer43 said:


> Don't think that the DA is selling like it did last year.  Clubs and players took a spin and see it for what it is (and left for ECNL).   Guessing that many from Slammers are not sad to leave DA.  As has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum, DA is supposed to be for NT ID and that is for the smallest group of players.  ECNL, even this past year, is still proving it's value for college recruiting.  Just look at the rosters of the DA this past year and how many got college commits compared to the ECNL players.


Share some stats for your final comment.  A statement like that should be supported.


----------



## Soccer43

Ahh, You're going to make me do all that work on a Saturday?  Today is busy but I will put that together for you soon as I have time


----------



## Soccer43

So to make this simple I just looked at 2020's as they are going into their junior year right now and used the college commits listed on Top Drawer Soccer - of course this process is not without error (don't do this for a living )... but...

459 players are listed with college commits, 170 are from DA teams, 220 from ECNL teams, and 69 from other (not DA or ECNL).  I even included in the DA numbers those clubs that are leaving DA and returning to ECNL (like  LAFC Slammers for example).


----------



## push_up

94ish ecnl clubs vs. 71ish DA clubs hurts your argument.


----------



## LadiesMan217

push_up said:


> 94ish ecnl clubs vs. 71ish DA clubs hurts your argument.


701 -vs- 1862 girls also. None of it really matters anyways.


----------



## Soccercritique

Soccer43 said:


> Don't think that the DA is selling like it did last year.  Clubs and players took a spin and see it for what it is (and left for ECNL).   Guessing that many from Slammers are not sad to leave DA.  As has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum, DA is supposed to be for NT ID and that is for the smallest group of players.  ECNL, even this past year, is still proving it's value for college recruiting.  Just look at the rosters of the DA this past year and how many got college commits compared to the ECNL players.


All the DA had to do was do two things: 1) allow ALL players to play high school soccer and 2) take away the stupid substitution rule and it would have made ECNL a second rate league.  When the initial teams were announced Michigan, Texas, Florida, PDA, and Norcal had all top 5 teams in the GDA.  When they announced no HS, all (MVLA, Mustang, Davis, San Juan Deanza/Earthquakes) but EQ stayed in.  Fast forward a year later and Hawks, PDA, Slammers and the Texas teams bounced.  DA is not in it for the success of the clubs...the substitution rule alone hurts development.  If I were a DOC, I'd leave too!


----------



## LadiesMan217

Soccercritique said:


> All the DA had to do was do two things: 1) allow ALL players to play high school soccer and 2) take away the stupid substitution rule and it would have made ECNL a second rate league.  When the initial teams were announced Michigan, Texas, Florida, PDA, and Norcal had all top 5 teams in the GDA.  When they announced no HS, all (MVLA, Mustang, Davis, San Juan Deanza/Earthquakes) but EQ stayed in.  Fast forward a year later and Hawks, PDA, Slammers and the Texas teams bounced.  DA is not in it for the success of the clubs...the substitution rule alone hurts development.  If I were a DOC, I'd leave too!


Interested in how you feel the substitution rule hurts development? I agree the HS thing is a dumb for girls at this age. Just tell the YNT players they can't play HS, etc.


----------



## Soccer43

push_up said:


> 94ish ecnl clubs vs. 71ish DA clubs hurts your argument.


another aspect that is interesting is that each school had a mix of DA and ECNL in the recruitment class.  Except for Virginia and Virginia Tech which had only DA players the others were a pretty good mix no matter what level of school.


----------



## davin

push_up said:


> 94ish ecnl clubs vs. 71ish DA clubs hurts your argument.


There were 80 ECNL clubs this past year vs. 72
GDA clubs.
http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2017-2018-girls-ecnl-club-map-final-use/

That makes it 2.75 commits per ECNL club vs. 2.36 commits per GDA club.


----------



## Soccercritique

LadiesMan217 said:


> Interested in how you feel the substitution rule hurts development? I agree the HS thing is a dumb for girls at this age. Just tell the YNT players they can't play HS, etc.


I do think the substitution rule hurts development-especially at the younger ages.  Once you leave the game, (even if its' 10-15 minutes into the game) you're out for good.  Here's an example...there was a team playing, had 16 on the roster (coach likes to roster small for a more equal playing time model).  In the first half, subbed two people.  In the second half, subbed 3.  Immediately after the second half started, one player injured her knee-down to 10.  later in the game, another kid rolled her ankle.  Now down to 9.  Nevermind that we had 4 healthy kids on the bench, but couldn't reenter because of the stupid sub rule.  

For teams that keep a roster of 18 for games...can you imagine how little playing time (or development in those games) kids get as a result of not being able to reenter games? The sub rule was one of the biggest reasons Hawks, PDA, and 2 of the Texas schools left...well that coupled with no HS...I'm not sure what the model is going to look like in 3-4 years.  Right now, GDA will play second fiddle to ECNL and rightfully so...the models aren't the same (or shouldn't be).  One is for national exposure, the other is kinda national but HUGE with college exposure.  sorry so choppy...writing on my phone


----------



## Soccercritique

davin said:


> There were 80 ECNL clubs this past year vs. 72
> GDA clubs.
> http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2017-2018-girls-ecnl-club-map-final-use/
> 
> That makes it 2.75 commits per ECNL club vs. 2.36 commits per GDA club.


90% of our team had already committed before start of GDA.  Numbers could be kind of skewed as a lot of these kids/national players committed pre-summer 2017


----------



## Justafan

push_up said:


> 94ish ecnl clubs vs. 71ish DA clubs hurts your argument.





LadiesMan217 said:


> 701 -vs- 1862 girls also. None of it really matters anyways.


The “big picture” point is that college players come from both leagues.


----------



## Justafan

LadiesMan217 said:


> Interested in how you feel the substitution rule hurts development? I agree the HS thing is a dumb for girls at this age. Just tell the YNT players they can't play HS, etc.


Where do I f’n start? This is absolutely the dumbest rule at any level other than professional or the national team.  Why?
Because in the only place it reallly matters, i.e. pro or national teams, players can either go 90  or they can’t, period!  

In terms of “strategy” as a coach, if you can’t figure out which of the players can go 90 and who are your potential 3 subs, you’re a frickin moron.  It’s not that complicated, in fact the 3 sub rule dumbs it down for everybody.  

So all this talk about how important it is for players to know how to go 90 etc. is pure bullshit.  If you’re only in shape to go 45, your coach should deal with it accordingly.  

So to sum it up, if you’re a player, get your ass in shape to go 90.  If you’re a coach, all you need to do is know who can and can’t go 90.

Anything below professional should be about making sure players know how to play.  The nuances of the substitution rules are for the coaches at the higher levels, and as I’ve previously stated, it’s not that hard.


----------



## jose

most people hate the DAs sub and HS rules I do to so lets email US soccer relentlessly until they get the message

communications@ussoccer.org  Phone: (312) 808-1300


----------



## SOCCERMINION

Justafan said:


> The “big picture” point is that college players come from both leagues.


Who has more collage commits is a debate that does not need to be made. GDA is not here to get your DD into College, its set up to find and develop the 1% of the 1% of the girls that will have a 1% change to ever make the national team. GDA does not want the girls spending any time doing anything other than Playing Soccer. Rightfully so. Having time for AP classes, IB programs preparing girls for collage is not whats makes Unicorns better at soccer. Soccer has to come before, school activities, grades , social activities and anything else if you want to be the 1% of the 1% GDA is looking for. 
Now if you have a Unicorn who lives and breaths soccer and wants to be home schooled and always  traveling and plays soccer week in and week out, day in and day out. Than thank the USSDA  for giving your daughter GDA. 
But do not compare number of scholarships given or complain or try to blame USSDA for not getting your daughter a collage scholarship. That's not what GDA is for nor what it is trying to do.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Justafan said:


> Where do I f’n start? This is absolutely the dumbest rule at any level other than professional or the national team.  Why?
> Because in the only place it reallly matters, i.e. pro or national teams, players can either go 90  or they can’t, period!
> 
> In terms of “strategy” as a coach, if you can’t figure out which of the players can go 90 and who are your potential 3 subs, you’re a frickin moron.  It’s not that complicated, in fact the 3 sub rule dumbs it down for everybody.
> 
> So all this talk about how important it is for players to know how to go 90 etc. is pure bullshit.  If you’re only in shape to go 45, your coach should deal with it accordingly.
> 
> So to sum it up, if you’re a player, get your ass in shape to go 90.  If you’re a coach, all you need to do is know who can and can’t go 90.
> 
> Anything below professional should be about making sure players know how to play.  The nuances of the substitution rules are for the coaches at the higher levels, and as I’ve previously stated, it’s not that hard.


A few corrections to your post. DA did not have a three sub rule.  It allowed 5 subs over 3 substitution moments for league. At the DA showcases they allowed 7 subs.  This coming season they are allowing 7 subs for league for all but the oldest age group.  Still no re entry.  Still require every rostered girl to start at least 25%.  I venture to say that the 18th player probably gets more playing time playing DA then some other leagues where they never start and only get a few minutes a game.


----------



## PatsLaCoach

Simisoccerfan said:


> A few corrections to your post. DA did not have a three sub rule.  It allowed 5 subs over 3 substitution moments for league. At the DA showcases they allowed 7 subs.  This coming season they are allowing 7 subs for league for all but the oldest age group.  Still no re entry.  Still require every rostered girl to start at least 25%.  I venture to say that the 18th player probably gets more playing time playing DA then some other leagues where they never start and only get a few minutes a game.


if the DA has the best players, then the 18th player should be the star at any F1, DPL, etc ??


----------



## push_up

Simisoccerfan said:


> A few corrections to your post. DA did not have a three sub rule.  It allowed 5 subs over 3 substitution moments for league. At the DA showcases they allowed 7 subs.  This coming season they are allowing 7 subs for league for all but the oldest age group.  Still no re entry.  Still require every rostered girl to start at least 25%.  I venture to say that the 18th player probably gets more playing time playing DA then some other leagues where they never start and only get a few minutes a game.


I think we just found one that injects the koolaid directly into the blood stream.


----------



## Justafan

Simisoccerfan said:


> A few corrections to your post. DA did not have a three sub rule.  It allowed 5 subs over 3 substitution moments for league. At the DA showcases they allowed 7 subs.  This coming season they are allowing 7 subs for league for all but the oldest age group.  Still no re entry.  Still require every rostered girl to start at least 25%.  I venture to say that the 18th player probably gets more playing time playing DA then some other leagues where they never start and only get a few minutes a game.


But you got my point, right?  Whatever the substitution rules are, whether it’s 5 or 7 is inconsequential at this point in development.  Limiting the number of “substitution moments” to a certain number is fine for flow of the game.


----------



## Soccer43

jose said:


> most people hate the DAs sub and HS rules I do to so lets email US soccer relentlessly until they get the message
> 
> communications@ussoccer.org  Phone: (312) 808-1300


I found a simpler solution - let the DA do whatever they want - Parents can find somewhere better for their DD's and not bother with DA.   Why waste all that time and energy on a system that isn't worth it?


----------



## timmyh

Soccercritique said:


> I do think the substitution rule hurts development-especially at the younger ages.  Once you leave the game, (even if its' 10-15 minutes into the game) you're out for good.  Here's an example...there was a team playing, had 16 on the roster (coach likes to roster small for a more equal playing time model).  In the first half, subbed two people.  In the second half, subbed 3.  Immediately after the second half started, one player injured her knee-down to 10.  later in the game, another kid rolled her ankle.  Now down to 9.  Nevermind that we had 4 healthy kids on the bench, but couldn't reenter because of the stupid sub rule.
> 
> For teams that keep a roster of 18 for games...can you imagine how little playing time (or development in those games) kids get as a result of not being able to reenter games? The sub rule was one of the biggest reasons Hawks, PDA, and 2 of the Texas schools left...


Just for accuracies sake, no Texas clubs left DA this year. Texas is pretty strongly a DA state.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Soccercritique said:


> I do think the substitution rule hurts development-especially at the younger ages.  Once you leave the game, (even if its' 10-15 minutes into the game) you're out for good.  Here's an example...there was a team playing, had 16 on the roster (coach likes to roster small for a more equal playing time model).  In the first half, subbed two people.  In the second half, subbed 3.  Immediately after the second half started, one player injured her knee-down to 10.  later in the game, another kid rolled her ankle.  Now down to 9.  Nevermind that we had 4 healthy kids on the bench, but couldn't reenter because of the stupid sub rule.
> 
> For teams that keep a roster of 18 for games...can you imagine how little playing time (or development in those games) kids get as a result of not being able to reenter games? The sub rule was one of the biggest reasons Hawks, PDA, and 2 of the Texas schools left...well that coupled with no HS...I'm not sure what the model is going to look like in 3-4 years.  Right now, GDA will play second fiddle to ECNL and rightfully so...the models aren't the same (or shouldn't be).  One is for national exposure, the other is kinda national but HUGE with college exposure.  sorry so choppy...writing on my phone


I'm hearing there's a change in the minimum number of full-time DA players required on the roster. It is now 14 (down from 18?) with a larger number of DP's allowed. This opens up more spots for players who want to play high school. Also, it should be more likely that the bottom of the FT player roster - player 14 instead of player 18 - gets a decent amount of DA playing time.


----------



## timbuck

Is that being done for playing time purposes or to make it easier for teams to be partially or fully funded?
4 players per team x $4,000 per player.  Saves $16k in expense.


----------



## Josep

jose said:


> most people hate the DAs sub and HS rules I do to so lets email US soccer relentlessly until they get the message
> 
> communications@ussoccer.org  Phone: (312) 808-1300


Most kids don’t hate HS rules.  Only the parents do.  No kids complained about not playing HS in our DA club.


----------



## Soccercritique

Josep said:


> Most kids don’t hate HS rules.  Only the parents do.  No kids complained about not playing HS in our DA club.


I hate to break this to you, but your club doesn't consist of "most kids...", small sample size.  There was a revolt by clubs in Northern California (Mustang, MVLA, Davis, San Juan), after they had accepted the DA's initial offer to join, ONLY to leave the DA when it was learned that they would not allow kids to play HS soccer.  When reports that other schools would follow suit, they (DA)said it was up to each respective club.  By that time, it was too late.  I want whats best for my kid.  If she wants to enjoy her mates playing HS soccer, then she should be allowed to-for reals, what's the hate against HS soccer? My opinion?  DOC's and USSF are in bed with one another because it huts the clubs bottom line if they take 3 months off.


----------



## LadiesMan217

Josep said:


> My opinion?  DOC's and USSF are in bed with one another because it huts the clubs bottom line if they take 3 months off.


It actually hurts clubs bottom line playing those 3 months, practicing 4 days a week, and having coach restrictions.


----------



## Soccercritique

LadiesMan217 said:


> It actually hurts clubs bottom line playing those 3 months, practicing 4 days a week, and having coach restrictions.


how does it hurt it, when the kids...errr..parents are paying for it in mostly fees?  if 30 kids aren't playing DA soccer for 3 months, at 300.00 a month per kid, isn't that hurting the club, financially?


----------



## Soccercritique

kickingandscreaming said:


> I'm hearing there's a change in the minimum number of full-time DA players required on the roster. It is now 14 (down from 18?) with a larger number of DP's allowed. This opens up more spots for players who want to play high school. Also, it should be more likely that the bottom of the FT player roster - player 14 instead of player 18 - gets a decent amount of DA playing time.


Some clubs are having the minimum number of kids to officially roster for the DA (think it's 214) and have all the other kids DP.  This way, clubs can have two teams playing (NPL/ECNL) and DA.  Top 14 would ONLY be able to play DA and the other 20 players would go between DA and NPL/ECNL.


----------



## LadiesMan217

Soccercritique said:


> how does it hurt it, when the kids...errr..parents are paying for it in mostly fees?  if 30 kids aren't playing DA soccer for 3 months, at 300.00 a month per kid, isn't that hurting the club, financially?


I guess if the clubs are charging more than they did for ECNL.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Simisoccerfan said:


> A few corrections to your post. DA did not have a three sub rule.  It allowed 5 subs over 3 substitution moments for league. At the DA showcases they allowed 7 subs.  This coming season they are allowing 7 subs for league for all but the oldest age group.  Still no re entry.  Still require every rostered girl to start at least 25%.  I venture to say that the 18th player probably gets more playing time playing DA then some other leagues where they never start and only get a few minutes a game.


Please explain your disagreement?  My kid plays DA so I know the rules.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

timbuck said:


> Is that being done for playing time purposes or to make it easier for teams to be partially or fully funded?
> 4 players per team x $4,000 per player.  Saves $16k in expense.


I didn't even think of that reason. But, I am all for it considering our daughter's fees are fully funded ... by her parents.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn

Out of curiosity, anybody with knowledge of Slammers teams know whether players are happy with change from DA to ECNL?  Or are players jumping ship to other DA teams?


----------



## Penalty Kicks Stink

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Out of curiosity, anybody with knowledge of Slammers teams know whether players are happy with change from DA to ECNL?  Or are players jumping ship to other DA teams?


Its about 50/50
Players like that they can play HS now if they want but some parents arent happy with the $3500 bill they got for the upcoming season


----------



## timbuck

I heard at least 1 player decided to bail.


----------



## El Clasico

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> Its about 50/50
> Players like that they can play HS now if they want but some parents arent happy with the $3500 bill they got for the upcoming season


Was Slammers fully funded last season?


----------



## Soccer43

timbuck said:


> I heard at least 1 player decided to bail.


And go where?  Seems like they are still the best deal in town for college connections and championships.


----------



## Soccer

El Clasico said:


> Was Slammers fully funded last season?


Just dues. Not travel or team fees.


----------



## Soccer

Soccer43 said:


> And go where?  Seems like they are still the best deal in town for college connections and championships.


I have heard of a lot of kids at the U18/19 age that have left DA for ECNL at Slammers and LA Breakers.    Is High School as big of a deal for the 04’s and 05’s?  I guess it remains to be seen.


----------



## Lambchop

kickingandscreaming said:


> I'm hearing there's a change in the minimum number of full-time DA players required on the roster. It is now 14 (down from 18?) with a larger number of DP's allowed. This opens up more spots for players who want to play high school. Also, it should be more likely that the bottom of the FT player roster - player 14 instead of player 18 - gets a decent amount of DA playing time.





Soccer43 said:


> So to make this simple I just looked at 2020's as they are going into their junior year right now and used the college commits listed on Top Drawer Soccer - of course this process is not without error (don't do this for a living )... but...
> 
> 459 players are listed with college commits, 170 are from DA teams, 220 from ECNL teams, and 69 from other (not DA or ECNL).  I even included in the DA numbers those clubs that are leaving DA and returning to ECNL (like  LAFC Slammers for example).


Please break the numbers down per D1, D2 schools and also how many went to the top 30 D1 schools.  That will give a better picture.  Also, with only one year into DA the stats are skewed because a lot of the commits were made prior to or at the beginning of DA.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Soccer said:


> I have heard of a lot of kids at the U18/19 age that have left DA for ECNL at Slammers and LA Breakers.    Is High School as big of a deal for the 04’s and 05’s?  I guess it remains to be seen.


I’ve heard a lot of the opposite. Many u18/19 looking tonmove to Fully Funded Clubs b/c they are already committed and the parents don’t want to pay Club Dues and Fees for the season.  But that is simply more Organization driven then League driven.


----------



## Soccer43

Lambchop said:


> Please break the numbers down per D1, D2 schools and also how many went to the top 30 D1 schools.  That will give a better picture.  Also, with only one year into DA the stats are skewed because a lot of the commits were made prior to or at the beginning of DA.


I only looked at D1 schools and all the top 30 we're included.  Across the board at each D1 school, whether top 30 or lower there was a mix of ECNL and DA + almost 50/50, even at top 30 schools.   The only variation were the Virginia schools which were all DA and no ECNL


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Soccer43 said:


> I only looked at D1 schools and all the top 30 we're included.  Across the board at each D1 school, whether top 30 or lower there was a mix of ECNL and DA + almost 50/50, even at top 30 schools.   The only variation were the Virginia schools which were all DA and no ECNL


What resource did you use for this analysis?  Top Drawer soccer is the only one I know and it has issues.


----------



## Soccer43

Yes, I already stated that -  I used Top drawer soccer as the resource as that is the main central one with the info  posted and also stated it has limitations and that I am not a statistician.    If anyone else has another way of looking at this would love to see it .  Regardless of the stated flaws these flaws would affect both sides


----------



## Soccer

Kicker4Life said:


> I’ve heard a lot of the opposite. Many u18/19 looking tonmove to Fully Funded Clubs b/c they are already committed and the parents don’t want to pay Club Dues and Fees for the season.  But that is simply more Organization driven then League driven.


Correct a lot of movement from Beach to LA Galaxy possibly at U18/19.  But Real So Cal to Breakers is what I hear, but not confirmed.  But I know Slammers and Strikers picked up a slew of kids at U18/19 in OC.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

We had several Real players move over to Eagles with KW.


----------



## Soccer43

Not surprising but that is a move because if the coach moving not because of Slammers leaving DA


----------



## Kicker4Life

Soccer said:


> Correct a lot of movement from Beach to LA Galaxy possibly at U18/19.  But Real So Cal to Breakers is what I hear, but not confirmed.  But I know Slammers and Strikers picked up a slew of kids at U18/19 in OC.


I’ve heard about the Real move as well, however most were ‘03’s that I knew of.  I’m sure there were more across other ages.


----------



## outside!

Soccer43 said:


> ...I used Top drawer soccer as the resource as that is the main central one with the info  posted and also stated it has limitations and that I am not a statistician.    If anyone else has another way of looking at this would love to see it .  Regardless of the stated flaws these flaws would affect both sides


TDS is a pay site that has/had close ties to ECNL. 
The "*Women's College (NCAA) Soccer Recruiting"* site probably more impartial

https://sites.google.com/site/soccerrecruits/


----------



## Soccer43

outside! said:


> TDS is a pay site that has/had close ties to ECNL.
> The "*Women's College (NCAA) Soccer Recruiting"* site probably more impartial
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/soccerrecruits/


The unfortunate part is that that site only lists 2018 and 2019.  I looked at 2020's.


----------



## Soccer43

Soccer43 said:


> I only looked at D1 schools and all the top 30 we're included.  Across the board at each D1 school, whether top 30 or lower there was a mix of ECNL and DA + almost 50/50, even at top 30 schools.   The only variation were the Virginia schools which were all DA and no ECNL


For the top 30 programs here are the numbers:  51 from DA teams;  68 from ECNL teams ; 9 from non DA/non ECNL


----------



## Simisoccerfan

outside! said:


> TDS is a pay site that has/had close ties to ECNL.
> The "*Women's College (NCAA) Soccer Recruiting"* site probably more impartial
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/soccerrecruits/


And this site is also missing even more that Top Drawer.


----------



## FlashDrive

just heard DA changed its sub rules - re-entry IS now allowed... has anyone confirmed this or any new rules?


----------



## GoWest

FlashDrive said:


> just heard DA changed its sub rules - re-entry IS now allowed... has anyone confirmed this or any new rules?


Why do they keep making adjustments to the rules?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

GoWest said:


> Why do they keep making adjustments to the rules?


Really?  Everyone complains about the rule then when they change it.....


----------



## FlashDrive

GoWest said:


> Why do they keep making adjustments to the rules?


pressure from clubs/players/parents.. it's only a matter of time before they adjust the high school rule.. they can't have more clubs leave to ECNL


----------



## LASTMAN14

FlashDrive said:


> just heard DA changed its sub rules - re-entry IS now allowed... has anyone confirmed this or any new rules?


It is.


----------



## timbuck

They need to create a “VP of Youtb Common Sense” within US Soccer to review everything before it gets rolled out. 

Any idiot could tell you that limited subs for kids is a bad idea.  
Just like “birth year” caused more harm than good. (At best it was neutral with no benefit).


----------



## Soccer

LASTMAN14 said:


> It is.


Not at all ages.

https://m.box.com/shared_item/https://ussoccer.box.com/s/674fj52di2bihx1jxoxhwy45b6kij4mn


----------



## timbuck

Soccer said:


> Not at all ages.
> 
> https://m.box.com/shared_item/https://ussoccer.box.com/s/674fj52di2bihx1jxoxhwy45b6kij4mn


Thank you for sharing. Good info. 
The whole DP / DA / PT player info. is interesting. 
Will be curious to watch how it plays out this year.  As asked before- a PT player can’t playe high school-  how is this tracked/monitored?
Since most so cal high schools ran a summer league to evaluate players- how does this impact those players?  
A week ago it seemed that DPL players could play high school without issue. Now what?


----------



## Soccerfan2

U13 and U14 only. Re-entry is allowed and subs are allowed 3 times per game. Surf Cup adopted the rule immediately for DA brackets this week. I like the change. It’s reasonable yet limits interruptions to the game.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

timbuck said:


> Thank you for sharing. Good info.
> The whole DP / DA / PT player info. is interesting.
> Will be curious to watch how it plays out this year.  As asked before- a PT player can’t playe high school-  how is this tracked/monitored?
> Since most so cal high schools ran a summer league to evaluate players- how does this impact those players?
> A week ago it seemed that DPL players could play high school without issue. Now what?


DPL players can still play HS.  They just can’t be PT players or maybe they need to wait till HS is over prior to becoming a PT.


----------



## timbuck

Who tracks this?  DA or HS?
At what point does someone become a PT player?


----------



## GoWest

Simisoccerfan said:


> Really?  Everyone complains about the rule then when they change it.....


Nope. Not complaining. Just a question.



FlashDrive said:


> pressure from clubs/players/parents.. it's only a matter of time before they adjust the high school rule.. they can't have more clubs leave to ECNL


Insightful. Thank you.


----------



## meatsweats

Simisoccerfan said:


> DPL players can still play HS.  They just can’t be PT players or maybe they need to wait till HS is over prior to becoming a PT.


Only from experience and maybe will be different this HS season, but DA PT or DPL players weren't allow HS play. Is that different this year or is this club specific?


----------



## timbuck

Will HS coaches make decisions based on what team a player is on?
IE-  will they pick a kid from an ecnl or f1/f2 team over a kid from a dpl team? (Assuming somewhat equal showing in tryouts).


----------



## jose

Soccer said:


> Not at all ages.
> 
> https://m.box.com/shared_item/https://ussoccer.box.com/s/674fj52di2bihx1jxoxhwy45b6kij4mn


its a start now hopefully its goes up to u19s


----------



## timbuck

I noticed that the 05 Slammers team that played in FWR was listed as LAFC USSDA this weekend at Surf Cup.  Is that because that’s what they were planning to “be” when they registered?


----------



## Slammerdad

timbuck said:


> Will HS coaches make decisions based on what team a player is on?
> IE-  will they pick a kid from an ecnl or f1/f2 team over a kid from a dpl team? (Assuming somewhat equal showing in tryouts).


My DD was a freshman last year at a very competitive HS soccer program and was a flight 1 player.  She was only 1 of three freshman pulled up to varsity (we had three teams).  We had a couple other ECNL players left at JV and one Champions div girl left on the Freshman team based on the coaches evaluations.  I would say based on my experience only, that our HS coaches evaluated what they saw on the field, not the resume the player was coming with.


----------



## Eagle33

timbuck said:


> Will HS coaches make decisions based on what team a player is on?
> IE-  will they pick a kid from an ecnl or f1/f2 team over a kid from a dpl team? (Assuming somewhat equal showing in tryouts).


Why would HS coach care where your DD plays? As long as she can play, they will determine on what level team they can play in HS.
Not to say some will get overlooked and some HS program don't have very good coaches.


----------



## timbuck

Eagle33 said:


> Why would HS coach care where your DD plays? As long as she can play, they will determine on what level team they can play in HS.
> Not to say some will get overlooked and some HS program don't have very good coaches.


My thinking there was if they are a DPL player that gets called up to play on the DA team.  I saw some language saying that a “Part Time Player” cannot play high School soccer. Not sure how that is tracked or monitored. 
So if I’m a coach trying to assemble a team and there are 8 girls of nearly equal ability.   You have 5 spots left.  3 are ecnl.  3 are DPL and 2 are neither.  
The 3 ecnl players can play high school without issue.  So can their other 2.   The DPL players might play 1 game of high School or all games. 
Does this factor into a decision on taking a player?


----------



## Eagle33

timbuck said:


> My thinking there was if they are a DPL player that gets called up to play on the DA team.  I saw some language saying that a “Part Time Player” cannot play high School soccer. Not sure how that is tracked or monitored.
> So if I’m a coach trying to assemble a team and there are 8 girls of nearly equal ability.   You have 5 spots left.  3 are ecnl.  3 are DPL and 2 are neither.
> The 3 ecnl players can play high school without issue.  So can their other 2.   The DPL players might play 1 game of high School or all games.
> Does this factor into a decision on taking a player?


I would say yes. If I know my HS player will miss games, I will pick someone who don't


----------



## MFranco

Slammerdad said:


> My DD was a freshman last year at a very competitive HS soccer program and was a flight 1 player.  She was only 1 of three freshman pulled up to varsity (we had three teams).  We had a couple other ECNL players left at JV and one Champions div girl left on the Freshman team based on the coaches evaluations.  I would say based on my experience only, that our HS coaches evaluated what they saw on the field, not the resume the player was coming with.


High School is tough sometimes because sometimes those ECNL or Champions Divison girls as freshman can't handle the (usually) physical and speed of play against 17-18 year olds. Others handle is very well. I coach HS and last year I had a Flight 2 player freshman start as a center-mid for me. Why? Because she could flat out play and do what we needed her to do. Sometimes we get DPL or Flight 1 players thinking they are owed something because of what club they play for. The only reason I like to know what club they play for is so I can watch them in the fall before tryouts to get an idea of their talent. Most of them come out to summer so its pretty clear who can play and who cant but I try to give those players a chance to show me what they can do in club as well as high school. End of the day....I care what they can do for the high school team not what trophies they won in club. Also, if a player is a flight 1 or DPL forward as a freshman or sophomore but we already have 6 forwards better on varsity then why waste her time by putting her on varsity. Let them get minutes on the lower level team.

If I bring a freshman up to Varsity its because they will either start or get a lot of playing time. Otherwise I leave them down to play more. There are those HS coaches who will pick a player completely based off their club name. Or better yet, they just cut someone based on their club name because they don't think its good enough.


----------



## meatsweats

Slammerdad said:


> My DD was a freshman last year at a very competitive HS soccer program and was a flight 1 player.  She was only 1 of three freshman pulled up to varsity (we had three teams).  We had a couple other ECNL players left at JV and one Champions div girl left on the Freshman team based on the coaches evaluations.  I would say based on my experience only, that our HS coaches evaluated what they saw on the field, not the resume the player was coming with.


Then you had intelligent HS coaches and staff. Not the case for our DD. Old boys network, favoritism and parent phone calls eventually took it's toll. Could have been a great team, but petered out when it meant the most. More political crap than club and I was sad that DD didn't really forage the relationships I had in my HS soccer days. Most girls stuck to their club friends on the team, no true bonding and coach listening to parents and resumes more than players and work ethic.  My DD is playing DA this season and will not play HS and won't miss it. She will be sad though to not run track. But maybe Sr. year. I think we miss having a multiple sport athlete more than HS soccer any day. There's just not enough time with AP classes, volunteering and then top level soccer and practice 4 days a week.


----------



## Primetime

timbuck said:


> I noticed that the 05 Slammers team that played in FWR was listed as LAFC USSDA this weekend at Surf Cup.  Is that because that’s what they were planning to “be” when they registered?


Boys or girls ?


----------



## SoccerFrenzy

Did any clubs lose DA players? I hear Beach and RSC did


----------



## LASTMAN14

Primetime said:


> Boys or girls ?


Their referring to the Girls side


----------



## LASTMAN14

timbuck said:


> I noticed that the 05 Slammers team that played in FWR was listed as LAFC USSDA this weekend at Surf Cup.  Is that because that’s what they were planning to “be” when they registered?


I think that’s a yes and seemingly played in the ECNL grouping at SC.


----------



## futboldad1

SoccerFrenzy said:


> Did any clubs lose DA players? I hear Beach and RSC did


Yes to RSC. I will find out about Beach. Increasing migration from DA will be happening on the girls side from the families I know. Slammers leaving was huge


----------



## SoccerFrenzy

futboldad1 said:


> Yes to RSC. I will find out about Beach. Increasing migration from DA will be happening on the girls side from the families I know. Slammers leaving was huge


Isn't it too late to leave DA?


----------



## SoccerFrenzy

futboldad1 said:


> Yes to RSC. I will find out about Beach. Increasing migration from DA will be happening on the girls side from the families I know. Slammers leaving was huge


Where did RSC players go to?


----------



## Sunil Illuminati

SoccerFrenzy said:


> Where did RSC players go to?


AYSO


----------



## Simisoccerfan

SoccerFrenzy said:


> Where did RSC players go to?


I know of several players that left and joined the Eagles.


----------



## Carpediem

Yet some Slammers players also left after the announcement to find seemingly greener pastures at Blues, and Galaxy.  Looks like the movement is ever going in multiple directions


----------



## Sunil Illuminati

Simisoccerfan said:


> I know of several players that left and joined the Eagles.


Same thing!


----------



## Soccer43

Simisoccerfan said:


> I know of several players that left and joined the Eagles.


Eagles and RSC have a long history of players moving back and forth between clubs.


----------



## Kicker4Life

SoccerFrenzy said:


> Did any clubs lose DA players? I hear Beach and RSC did


Beach did?  To ECNL? Do tell....


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Soccer43 said:


> Eagles and RSC have a long history of players moving back and forth between clubs.


Yep.  The shift back and forth as coaches come and go.


----------



## futboldad1

Kicker4Life said:


> Beach did?  To ECNL? Do tell....


Yes, Beach 03 lost several starting players. Not sure on exact number or where they went (probably ECNL but I don't want to guess) but it's something I will be able to find out. That was Beach's top team, they won their 2017-2018 GDA conference. Not sure on reasons they left but I can ask my reliable "in the know" youngers parent next time we see each other at private training.


----------



## LadiesMan217

futboldad1 said:


> Yes, Beach 03 lost several starting players. Not sure on exact number or where they went (probably ECNL but I don't want to guess) but it's something I will be able to find out. That was Beach's top team, they won their 2017-2018 GDA conference. Not sure on reasons they left but I can ask my reliable "in the know" youngers parent next time we see each other at private training.


Doesn't matter if they left unless Olivia Moultrie left. One kid can make or break a teams standings in many cases like this one.


----------



## outside!

LadiesMan217 said:


> Doesn't matter if they left unless Olivia Moultrie left. One kid can make or break a teams standings in many cases like this one.


Most posters refrain from directly naming players under the age of 18.


----------



## futboldad1

LadiesMan217 said:


> Doesn't matter if they left unless Olivia Moultrie left. One kid can make or break a teams standings in many cases like this one.


I didn't say it whether it mattered or not, I was simply answering the other poster.


----------



## Kicker4Life

futboldad1 said:


> Yes, Beach 03 lost several starting players. Not sure on exact number or where they went (probably ECNL but I don't want to guess) but it's something I will be able to find out. That was Beach's top team, they won their 2017-2018 GDA conference. Not sure on reasons they left but I can ask my reliable "in the know" youngers parent next time we see each other at private training.


Several?  Hmmmm not sure about that, I only know about one.  Not saying there couldn’t be more, but the speculation may be just that. We’ve been out of practice this week and some of last sonsomething could have taken place that I am not aware of yet.


----------



## Soccer43

Simisoccerfan said:


> Yep.  The shift back and forth as coaches come and go.


or as coaches get sent prison for sexual crimes against minors and players don't want to play for a club that claimed ignorance


----------



## Sons of Pitches

Simisoccerfan said:


> I know of several players that left and joined the Eagles.


I could only find 4?  two at U17 and two at  U18/19?  Based on the relative success of the two programs this past year, I would think that the flow would be from Eagles to RSC not the other way around?


----------



## Soccer43

RSC had a coach that moved to Eagles and looks like a few players probably followed her.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Also at least 6 DPL players that played for KW made the move to Eagles DA.  Some of them would have been DA at Real but instead played HS for KW.


----------



## Kopi

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Same thing!


Come on Simi that was funny!!


----------



## Sons of Pitches

Simisoccerfan said:


> Also at least 6 DPL players that played for KW made the move to Eagles DA.  Some of them would have been DA at Real but instead played HS for KW.


at what age group?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Sons of Pitches said:


> at what age group?


 oldest two teams, I don't know much about the younger teams


----------

