# High School Soccer Starts Today (15 Nov) in the CIF Southern Section



## twoclubpapa (Nov 15, 2021)

I wish for a productive and rewarding season for all the players, parents, coaches, administrators and my referee colleagues. Let's keep them safe out there.


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## crush (Nov 15, 2021)

Wow, my baby girl is a freaking Senior.  Time went too fast.  Good luck to all the girls playing high school soccer.  To all the refs.  Please call close games and get those cards out quickly.


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## timbuck (Nov 15, 2021)

crush said:


> Wow, my baby girl is a freaking Senior.  Time went too fast.  Good luck to all the girls playing high school soccer.  To all the refs.  Please call close games and get those cards out quickly.


We might be lucky if they show up for every game.  The shortage of refs will continue. 
The number of people who can swing being at a HS field on Tuesday and Thursday from 3:15 to 7:30pm is bound to be impacted.


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## Eagle33 (Nov 16, 2021)

timbuck said:


> We might be lucky if they show up for every game.  The shortage of refs will continue.
> The number of people who can swing being at a HS field on Tuesday and Thursday from 3:15 to 7:30pm is bound to be impacted.


To my knowledge there are a lot more HS refs than club refs out there.
For once they don't have to do SafeSport or a background check to ref HS.
Other reason, HS pay a lot more than club.
You will have NO problem in HS with refs.
Quality is a different story.....


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## twoclubpapa (Nov 16, 2021)

timbuck said:


> We might be lucky if they show up for every game.  The shortage of refs will continue.
> The number of people who can swing being at a HS field on Tuesday and Thursday from 3:15 to 7:30pm is bound to be impacted.


A high percentage of my afternoon games are scheduled to begin at 3:00pm. To arrive 30 minutes early with additional margin for unexpected traffic moves the required departure time from home/work to much earlier than 3:15 pm. The early HS game times do indeed pose a significant obstacle that keeps many USSF refs from working HS.

These start times are also a barrier for many player's parents who want to come watch their sons/daughters play.


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## timbuck (Nov 17, 2021)

Anyone know why schools don't try to do a "Friday Night Lights" type of thing for soccer? 
Why not have games (at least Varsity) on Fridays?  Rally the students to show up.  Maybe get the band and some cheerleaders out there.


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## outside! (Nov 17, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Anyone know why schools don't try to do a "Friday Night Lights" type of thing for soccer?
> Why not have games (at least Varsity) on Fridays?  Rally the students to show up.  Maybe get the band and some cheerleaders out there.


Both our players had Friday night games over the years, but only after football season was totally over (if the football team was in the playoffs). Of course the school did nothing to rally the students or even consider sending the band or the cheerleaders.


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## paytoplay (Nov 17, 2021)

Soccer is growing. But I see mediocrity everywhere in HS football, outside the usual powerhouses, and don’t understand the continued bias in favor of the football program, the athletics social media, the band and cheer, the actual play by play and live scores on NFHS! What a relic! Should be bumped from the stage in favor of soccer.


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## outside! (Nov 17, 2021)

paytoplay said:


> Soccer is growing. But I see mediocrity everywhere in HS football, outside the usual powerhouses, and don’t understand the continued bias in favor of the football program, the athletics social media, the band and cheer, the actual play by play and live scores on NFHS! What a relic! Should be bumped from the stage in favor of soccer.


There are schools were more boys tryout for soccer than football. If you add in girls soccer, I would not be surprised if there are a majority of schools in SoCal were there are more students that tryout for soccer than football. On Friday nights they could have both the varsity girls and boys play there 80 minute games with the band playing between games.


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## timbuck (Dec 2, 2021)

This might need it's own topic, but seems like a good place to put it.

Thanksgiving weekend had showcase events that most ECNL/GA and many other levels of teams played in.  3 games over 3 days- competing for attention from college scouts.
High School coaches know this was happening.  
Why would high school coaches schedule a tournament for this week? (our school plays tuesday, thursday and saturday.  maybe 2 games on Saturday)  Why would HS coaches run practice sessions during this same week that include heavy fitness/sprinting to exhaustion?

With the HS sub rules and most schools having pretty large rosters-  Why is there such a desire for HS coaches to run fitness sessions at this time of year?  95% of your players just finished a club season.  Running beep tests, miles around the track, 120's, etc is a recipe for disaster.


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## Eagle33 (Dec 3, 2021)

timbuck said:


> This might need it's own topic, but seems like a good place to put it.
> 
> Thanksgiving weekend had showcase events that most ECNL/GA and many other levels of teams played in.  3 games over 3 days- competing for attention from college scouts.
> High School coaches know this was happening.
> ...


It works the other way as well. 
Why clubs schedule anything in the end of the Season, when they know HS season starting in November?


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## crush (Dec 3, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> It works the other way as well.
> Why clubs schedule anything in the end of the Season, when they know HS season starting in November?


It cuts both ways is 100% true.  It's too bad for the girls quit frankly.  Follow the $$$ and you'll see why the girls even have to make a decision between either or and both and, when both and is the right answer.  My dd will have some big news bro to announce Feb 2, 2022 on National Signing Day.  It will be epic and all her decision.  Crush throws in his MOO's from time to time but this girl is on fire and will be playing soccer for the 2022-2023 season.  So proud of her bro.


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## timbuck (Dec 3, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> It works the other way as well.
> Why clubs schedule anything in the end of the Season, when they know HS season starting in November?


Totally agree.


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## espola (Dec 3, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> It works the other way as well.
> Why clubs schedule anything in the end of the Season, when they know HS season starting in November?


As long as I can remember, Thanksgiving weekend has been a traditional big tournament opportunity for club soccer.  Why did CIF Southern Section choose to intrude on that?  San Diego Section soccer season still starts the Monday after.


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## OCSDad (Dec 3, 2021)

Another reason to make sure that your athlete knows how to say no.


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## timbuck (Dec 3, 2021)

espola said:


> As long as I can remember, Thanksgiving weekend has been a traditional big tournament opportunity for club soccer.  Why did CIF Southenr Section choose to intrude on that?  San Diego Section soccer season still starts the Monday after.


Im not saying we couldn't start HS soccer-  But not sure we need a tournament that plays Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday with practices on Monday, Wednesday and Friday


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 3, 2021)

paytoplay said:


> Soccer is growing. But I see mediocrity everywhere in HS football, outside the usual powerhouses, and don’t understand the continued bias in favor of the football program, the athletics social media, the band and cheer, the actual play by play and live scores on NFHS! What a relic! Should be bumped from the stage in favor of soccer.


The football team at my daughters high school is atrocious but as you mention get the benefits. Basketball is not much better. It is the other sports for both girls and boys that are top notch locally and some nationally ranked.


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## twoclubpapa (Dec 3, 2021)

The 2017-18 HS soccer season was the last one that started the week of Thanksgiving and the rules at the time allowed one scrimmage.  A player could participate in a HS scrimmage early in the week and then play with their club in a showcase/tournament on Friday, Saturday and Sunday without impacting their HS eligibility for any game the following week. Little to no impact on either HS or club other than possible conflicts with practice times.

In 2018 the CIF moved the start of all HS winter sports one week earlier and scrimmages were increased to a maximum of two.  This creates an issue for club players if their HS schedules a game (rather than a scrimmage) sometime during the 10 days before Thanksgiving.  Once they play in a HS game the ban on outside competition now comes into play and creates the tension between club and HS.

At several of my HS games before Thanksgiving this year I had coaches tell me that many of their starters would not be playing since they would be playing in club tournaments/showcases the weekend after Thanksgiving. Much more of an issue now that the season starts mid-November.


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## Eagle33 (Dec 6, 2021)

twoclubpapa said:


> The 2017-18 HS soccer season was the last one that started the week of Thanksgiving and the rules at the time allowed one scrimmage.  A player could participate in a HS scrimmage early in the week and then play with their club in a showcase/tournament on Friday, Saturday and Sunday without impacting their HS eligibility for any game the following week. Little to no impact on either HS or club other than possible conflicts with practice times.
> 
> In 2018 the CIF moved the start of all HS winter sports one week earlier and scrimmages were increased to a maximum of two.  This creates an issue for club players if their HS schedules a game (rather than a scrimmage) sometime during the 10 days before Thanksgiving.  Once they play in a HS game the ban on outside competition now comes into play and creates the tension between club and HS.
> 
> At several of my HS games before Thanksgiving this year I had coaches tell me that many of their starters would not be playing since they would be playing in club tournaments/showcases the weekend after Thanksgiving. Much more of an issue now that the season starts mid-November.


If you know that much, you should also know that both scrimmages and Alumi game for that matter, still does not conflict with club games schedule and are allowed. Don't confuse pre-season games with scrimmages.


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## timbuck (Dec 6, 2021)

How much does it cost to use a company like GotSport to keep track of a tournament?
HS tournament scores / standings tracking would be better of if we sent a fax after each game for updates.


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## espola (Dec 6, 2021)

timbuck said:


> How much does it cost to use a company like GotSport to keep track of a tournament?
> HS tournament scores / standings tracking would be better of if we sent a fax after each game for updates.


Maxpreps reports the scores of all the games that are reported to that site.  Some HS tournaments have their own websites.

Here is one example --









						SOCCER: Season underway for Boys/Girls
					

Online Home For The San Diego Unified School District




					sdusdathletics.com


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## Eagle33 (Dec 6, 2021)

timbuck said:


> How much does it cost to use a company like GotSport to keep track of a tournament?
> HS tournament scores / standings tracking would be better of if we sent a fax after each game for updates.


Don't know about GotSport cost, but TGS charges flat fee of $399 for a tournament.


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## timbuck (Dec 6, 2021)

Looks like this tournament did some sort of upload of a google doc.  Not very efficient if  you need the tournament director (who is also coaching) to update scores.


			http://www.beckmangirlssoccer.com/red-bracket.html


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## socalkdg (Dec 7, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Anyone know why schools don't try to do a "Friday Night Lights" type of thing for soccer?
> Why not have games (at least Varsity) on Fridays?  Rally the students to show up.  Maybe get the band and some cheerleaders out there.


Our league games will be Wednesday and Friday at 7 PM.  Rather have my teenager playing soccer on a Friday night then just about anything else.


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## timbuck (Dec 7, 2021)

socalkdg said:


> Our league games will be Wednesday and Friday at 7 PM.  Rather have my teenager playing soccer on a Friday night then just about anything else.


They should have girls varsity and boys varsity play back to back on Friday nights and make it a big deal for students to attend.


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## espola (Dec 7, 2021)

timbuck said:


> They should have girls varsity and boys varsity play back to back on Friday nights and make it a big deal for students to attend.


When I was involved with high school soccer a few years back, that happened once or twice a year.  Even when it was Senior Night, the crowds weren't notably bigger.  The usual family and sweethearts attended, but not much of the student body.


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## ecsoccermom (Dec 10, 2021)

My DD (high school player) was going to attend a College ID camp by TGS tomorrow...however, it was denied by CIF because it is being run by a recruiting company and not by actual college coaches.  Thoughts?


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## espola (Dec 10, 2021)

ecsoccermom said:


> My DD (high school player) was going to attend a College ID camp by TGS tomorrow...however, it was denied by CIF because it is being run by a recruiting company and not by actual college coaches.  Thoughts?


Did they say what CIF regulation that would have violated?


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## ecsoccermom (Dec 10, 2021)

This is what was sent to us:

We have denied this request for another school as a College ID camp, as it does not appear to be run by college coaches. Looks like it is run by recruiting company.

Here is the language from our greenbook:


Attendance at College ID camps in all sports

  1.  With CIFSDS prior approval, student-athletes are permitted to attend two college ID camps in any given season of

sport. Attendance at any camp beyond two ID camps is a violation and would result in the penalties described in 601.A.

  2.  A College ID camp is defined as a sport specific camp, held on a college campus under the direction of a college coach.

  3.  Student athletes must receive permission from the site sport head coach and the Athletic Director/Administrator prior

to attending the ID camp. ID camp participation form must be completed, signed and approved by CIFSDS prior to a

student attending. Participation in an ID camp without prior approval would result in the penalties described in 601.A.

  4.  Camp flyer or link to camp website must be forwarded to the CIFSDS office along with completed ID camp

participation form.

  5.  The section office will list approved college ID camps on the CIFSDS web site for reference purposes. (Approved Board

of Managers)


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## espola (Dec 10, 2021)

ecsoccermom said:


> This is what was sent to us:
> 
> We have denied this request for another school as a College ID camp, as it does not appear to be run by college coaches. Looks like it is run by recruiting company.
> 
> ...


Taking that regulation at face value, any activity, even when called a "college ID camp" by its organizers, that is not "held on a college campus under the direction of a college coach", is therefore not a college ID camp as defined (they even us the word "defined") in their regulation, and therefore is outside the scope of the regulation.


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## GT45 (Dec 10, 2021)

In what world does CIF benefit by restricting players from ID Camps? Aren't high schools supposed to support kids education? Yet, they restrict how many college ID camps these kids can attend? This is ridiculous.

Honestly, I would just go to camps that benefit my kid. CIF is not going to find out if you don't post on social media about it.


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## espola (Dec 10, 2021)

GT45 said:


> In what world does CIF benefit by restricting players from ID Camps? Aren't high schools supposed to support kids education? Yet, they restrict how many college ID camps these kids can attend? This is ridiculous.
> 
> Honestly, I would just go to camps that benefit my kid. CIF is not going to find out if you don't post on social media about it.


I have seen many player responses to ID camp or on-campus tryout situations.  Some players will just sit on the sidelines during anything like simulated game situations, but may participate in timed runs, ballhandling, or shooting drills.  Some limit themselves to small-sided games, 5 or fewer, which are not considered to be violations by their local governing bodies.  Others just take the hit by reporting themselves and sitting out the two-game suspension (that was the penalty in San Diego Section a few years ago, but those things differ from section to section and year to year).  There is usually a gap of a few days between the end of the college season and the start of high school season that allows for a "legal" ID camp for some players, but the player may get dark looks from his club coach if he misses a game.

I really don't know if the long arm of CIF extends to prohibit private soccer training sessions, speed and agility workouts, or yoga classes.


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## outside! (Dec 14, 2021)

espola said:


> I have seen many player responses to ID camp or on-campus tryout situations.  Some players will just sit on the sidelines during anything like simulated game situations, but may participate in timed runs, ballhandling, or shooting drills.  Some limit themselves to small-sided games, 5 or fewer, which are not considered to be violations by their local governing bodies.  Others just take the hit by reporting themselves and sitting out the two-game suspension (that was the penalty in San Diego Section a few years ago, but those things differ from section to section and year to year).  There is usually a gap of a few days between the end of the college season and the start of high school season that allows for a "legal" ID camp for some players, but the player may get dark looks from his club coach if he misses a game.
> 
> I really don't know if the long arm of CIF extends to prohibit private soccer training sessions, speed and agility workouts, or yoga classes.


Someday someone will sue CIF for a Title IX violation since this impacts female soccer players and not male football players due to the arbitrary scheduling if the HS seasons compared to college seasons.


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## espola (Dec 14, 2021)

outside! said:


> Someday someone will sue CIF for a Title IX violation since this impacts female soccer players and not male football players due to the arbitrary scheduling if the HS seasons compared to college seasons.


I don't follow your argument.


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## Eagle33 (Dec 14, 2021)

ecsoccermom said:


> This is what was sent to us:
> 
> We have denied this request for another school as a College ID camp, as it does not appear to be run by college coaches. Looks like it is run by recruiting company.
> 
> ...


I have stupid question....Is it not enough college ID camps and showcases throughout a year, that your DD must attend one during a HS season?


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## outside! (Dec 14, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> I have stupid question....Is it not enough college ID camps and showcases throughout a year, that your DD must attend one during a HS season?


Most college soccer ID camps happen after college season ends in the late fall.


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## outside! (Dec 14, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> I have stupid question....Is it not enough college ID camps and showcases throughout a year, that your DD must attend one during a HS season?


College and high school football seasons are the same time of year, so college football camps do not happen during HS football season. So male football players do not have a CIF conflict. College soccer season is in the fall. California HS soccer season is in the winter when colleges are having soccer ID camps. This means the largest HS participation sport for females conflicts with college ID camp schedule but the largest participation sport for males does not.


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## espola (Dec 14, 2021)

outside! said:


> College and high school football seasons are the same time of year, so college football camps do not happen during HS football season. So male football players do not have a CIF conflict. College soccer season is in the fall. California HS soccer season is in the winter when colleges are having soccer ID camps. This means the largest HS participation sport for females conflicts with college ID camp schedule but the largest participation sport for males does not.


I agree with your sentiment, but the argument is weak.


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## GoldenGate (Dec 14, 2021)

outside! said:


> Someday someone will sue CIF for a Title IX violation since this impacts female soccer players and not male football players due to the arbitrary scheduling if the HS seasons compared to college seasons.


If they did, it would be one of the shortest lawsuits in history.  First, the fact that HS girls have opportunities to attend college ID camps both during and outside HS season, when that is apparently not an option for male football players, is actually a benefit to girls because they have more options. So, unless you're trying to suggest that the boys have a Title IX claim because they are getting screwed because the University of Alabama only has camps in the spring, it makes no sense that girls are being deprived anything because they have more options. 

Second, because HS boys and girls both have the opportunity to attend HS soccer ID camps during the season, there is no disparate treatment because boys and girls have the same opportunities.

Third, a HS and CIF have no control over when colleges ID camps.  They are therefore not discriminating against anyone or depriving anyone of an opportunity because it is not taking any adverse action against a kid. 

Fourth, the last time I checked, the weather cannot be a Title IX defendant although it is the reason soccer is played in winter in CA but, drumroll please, at the same time as football in Michigan and New York. Honestly, it's pretty myopic and self-absorbed to assume that everything is exactly the same as where you happen to be.


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## outside! (Dec 14, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> If they did, it would be one of the shortest lawsuits in history.  First, the fact that HS girls have opportunities to attend college ID camps both during and outside HS season, when that is apparently not an option for male football players, is actually a benefit to girls because they have more options. So, unless you're trying to suggest that the boys have a Title IX claim because they are getting screwed because the University of Alabama only has camps in the spring, it makes no sense that girls are being deprived anything because they have more options.
> 
> Second, because HS boys and girls both have the opportunity to attend HS soccer ID camps during the season, there is no disparate treatment because boys and girls have the same opportunities.
> 
> ...


Most college soccer camps happen between fall and spring seasons, which is when California HS plays soccer. CIF is a California Interscholastic Federation. California HS soccer is in the winter because the football coaches that ran CIF back in the day didn't want to share the fields. Why don't they move football to the winter and see how many football players have problems attending ID camps because of CIF? More HD students play soccer than football now. Shouldn't football have to compromise more now? And Golden gate, why do you always have to call people names?


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## GoldenGate (Dec 14, 2021)

outside! said:


> Most college soccer camps happen between fall and spring seasons, which is when California HS plays soccer. CIF is a California Interscholastic Federation. California HS soccer is in the winter because the football coaches that ran CIF back in the day didn't want to share the fields. Why don't they move football to the winter and see how many football players have problems attending ID camps because of CIF? More HD students play soccer than football now. Shouldn't football have to compromise more now? And Golden gate, why do you always have to call people names?


So do high schools violate Title IX by having their season in the winter, or do colleges violate IX by having their season in the fall? If colleges changed their season to winter to be consistent with CA, would that mean that MI and NY high schools are now violating Title IX because they would have the "problem" of having the opportunity to go to college ID camps during the fall?  Or are the colleges still violating Title IX, because now they're holding ID camps during MI's and NY's seasons instead of CA's? Do colleges violate Title IX any month that they have an ID camp during some states' HS season?  So, in other words, they can only hold ID camps in May and June without breaking federal law?  

I don't always call people names. Are you telling me that completely ignoring the fact that more than half of the states in the US have a different HS soccer season than CA is not myopic and self-absorbed?  Those seem to be the exact right words.   Most states have soccer in the fall, and some like Texas and Georgia even go well into April.  College ID camps will always conflict with some states' HS seasons regardless of when they have them.


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## outside! (Dec 14, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> So do high schools violate Title IX by having their season in the winter, or do colleges violate IX by having their season in the fall? If colleges changed their season to winter to be consistent with CA, would that mean that MI and NY high schools are now violating Title IX because they would have the "problem" of having the opportunity to go to college ID camps during the fall?  Or are the colleges still violating Title IX, because now they're holding ID camps during MI's and NY's seasons instead of CA's? Do colleges violate Title IX any month that they have an ID camp during some states' HS season?  So, in other words, they can only hold ID camps in May and June without breaking federal law?
> 
> I don't always call people names. Are you telling me that completely ignoring the fact that more than half of the states in the US have a different HS soccer season than CA is not myopic and self-absorbed?  Those seem to be the exact right words.   Most states have soccer in the fall, and some like Texas and Georgia even go well into April.  College ID camps will always conflict with some states' HS seasons regardless of when they have them.


No, I am telling you that CIF penalizing soccer players for attending college soccer ID camps means they are treating female soccer players differently than male football players due to institutional inertia. Different treatment if the sexes is a Title IX violation. This is only an issue in California. Why are you so obtuse and confrontational?


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## espola (Dec 14, 2021)

outside! said:


> No, I am telling you that CIF penalizing soccer players for attending college soccer ID camps means they are treating female soccer players differently than male football players due to institutional inertia. Different treatment if the sexes is a Title IX violation. This is only an issue in California. Why are you so obtuse and confrontational?


You can make this argument until your grandchildren graduate high school and neither CIF nor the courts are going to treat it seriously.


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 18, 2021)

After a year and a few games in all we have to say is high school soccer is awful. Per my two girls, “wish we could pass but it’s better than taking PE”. The competition is awful, the coaching is worse, opposing teams and fans are foul, etc.


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## crush (Dec 18, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> After a year and a few games in all we have to say is high school soccer is awful. Per my two girls, “wish we could pass but it’s better than taking PE”. The competition is awful, the coaching is worse, opposing teams and fans are foul, etc.


That's too bad for your kids and their school.  I won;t ask what HS.  My dd got a great compliment from one of her club coaches who said he's been watching some D1 HSS teams this year and he's been impressed with our sharing of the ball.  He said our team is passing the rock the best from what he can see and all seem to get along real well  Chemistry is key to any run into CIF playoffs, if we make playoffs.  I'm not here to say were a top team at all either, just that the girls are having so much fun playing together, like each other and they share the ball.  Our coach has been excellent too   This is my dd last year.  Refs need to pull yellow cards quickly and stop the hacking.  That has not changed and I'm scared every time my kid plays soccer.  Hack city sometimes and if ref makes no call, they hack away.  Were not playing to win at all cost until league.


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## Sike (Dec 20, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> After a year and a few games in all we have to say is high school soccer is awful. Per my two girls, “wish we could pass but it’s better than taking PE”. The competition is awful, the coaching is worse, opposing teams and fans are foul, etc.


Completely agree that it isn't great soccer for most schools.  If the only thing you are trying to get out of it is great soccer, you will likely be disappointed.  However, my dd loves hss for reasons other than the actual soccer.  Her school is a competitive D1 program, so the soccer is not awful but certainly not on the level of her ECNL team.  Her hss coach is a former D1 college player and club coach, but the coach is clearly trying to develop the girls as people more than she is trying to develop them as soccer players.  However, my dd loves hss for the social aspect of it as her group of friends and sense of community have grown by being on the hss team.  I also think the less intense nature of hss provides her with a break from her club team that she appreciates.  Overall, she is quite happy playing hss and is glad she doesn't have to skip it as DA would've required.  

All that said, my dd has club teammates at other schools who hate hss.  I think a lot of it has to do with the culture of hss program and/or coach.  I am sorry your dd's aren't in a hss program that they are able to enjoy.


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## tjinaz (Dec 20, 2021)

Sike said:


> Completely agree that it isn't great soccer for most schools.  If the only thing you are trying to get out of it is great soccer, you will likely be disappointed.  However, my dd loves hss for reasons other than the actual soccer.  Her school is a competitive D1 program, so the soccer is not awful but certainly not on the level of her ECNL team.  Her hss coach is a former D1 college player and club coach, but the coach is clearly trying to develop the girls as people more than she is trying to develop them as soccer players.  However, my dd loves hss for the social aspect of it as her group of friends and sense of community have grown by being on the hss team.  I also think the less intense nature of hss provides her with a break from her club team that she appreciates.  Overall, she is quite happy playing hss and is glad she doesn't have to skip it as DA would've required.
> 
> All that said, my dd has club teammates at other schools who hate hss.  I think a lot of it has to do with the culture of hss program and/or coach.  I am sorry your dd's aren't in a hss program that they are able to enjoy.


Seems to depend on whether they are playing Varsity or JV and the quality of the players around them both soccer wise and socially.  Talked to our club parents and that is where the line is.  If they are a talented club player that didn't make varsity they will be miserable.  Playing at a slower pace, less skilled teammates and bad competition.  If they are young playing with other club players on varsity they may be bit overwhelmed with the size and speed of the upperclassmen and risk injury.  So far my DD is liking it.  Coach is good and plays a possession game rather than the boom ball you see on a lot of teams.  So far so good.


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 26, 2021)

Sike said:


> Completely agree that it isn't great soccer for most schools.  If the only thing you are trying to get out of it is great soccer, you will likely be disappointed.  However, my dd loves hss for reasons other than the actual soccer.  Her school is a competitive D1 program, so the soccer is not awful but certainly not on the level of her ECNL team.  Her hss coach is a former D1 college player and club coach, but the coach is clearly trying to develop the girls as people more than she is trying to develop them as soccer players.  However, my dd loves hss for the social aspect of it as her group of friends and sense of community have grown by being on the hss team.  I also think the less intense nature of hss provides her with a break from her club team that she appreciates.  Overall, she is quite happy playing hss and is glad she doesn't have to skip it as DA would've required.
> 
> All that said, my dd has club teammates at other schools who hate hss.  I think a lot of it has to do with the culture of hss program and/or coach.  I am sorry your dd's aren't in a hss program that they are able to enjoy.


Both my girls transitioned from DA to ECNL. Both varsity first year playing. They agree on some points the better points. Team is stacked with mostly DA/now ECNL players w and who have known each other long term. Coach is awful. For them high school experience minimum. They rather be off.


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