# DA vs. Non DA Tournament Tactics



## galaxydad (Jul 22, 2017)

My buddy told me an interesting story that I thought Id share and see what people on the forum have to say-

Semi final of a tournament (11 v 11 not U littles)- A non DA team was playing a DA team. The DA team takes a 1-0 lead and is passing the ball around real well. All the Non DA parents were impressed with the quality of play. The Non- DA team finds a way to tie it up and then takes the lead in the final 8 minutes.

The Non DA coach puts in another defender and a defensive mid as the DA team is scrapping to tie it back up. He is subbing etc. to hold the lead. 

The DA coaches (and there are a bunch on the sideline) go nuts yelling at the non DA coach for his lack of class (for going defensive), they yell at him saying that they will make sure the non DA team never gets DA status ( I have no idea if they even want too, but found the words of choice interesting). They were going ape crazy!

My question- At what age does tactics come into play (including understanding the score and how to win that game)? Should it be the non DA's job to sit and play the formation they started with and not adjust to the score line? Is it unclassy to go defensive and play for the win? 

This superiority complex that many of the DA coaches have toward the none DA team is crazy. If you don't do things their way then you we wont let you into their club. They act like they know about the right way to coach and play and the other are just pretenders. Found it interesting.

Thoughts?


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## coachrefparent (Jul 22, 2017)

galaxydad said:


> My buddy told me an interesting story that I thought Id share and see what people on the forum have to say-
> 
> Semi final of a tournament (11 v 11 not U littles)- A non DA team was playing a DA team. The DA team takes a 1-0 lead and is passing the ball around real well. All the Non DA parents were impressed with the quality of play. The Non- DA team finds a way to tie it up and then takes the lead in the final 8 minutes.
> 
> ...


It reminds me of those people that you beat at a sport that have been playing and practicing for years, and they claim that they only lost to you because you are so bad at the game that you don't know how to play it correctly.

A bunch of cry-babies, ha, ha. I'm sure they've never tried to run out the clock playing another DA team. Losing to such a lesser team is a disgrace to them. Its a tournament, and teams play to win. A coach can't change formation during a game or sub? Why do they need a coach?

Yeah I know, "development," blah, blah blah. You should only win by playing it out of the back and never sending long balls to your player that's faster than the opponent's, defenders, blah, blah, blah.


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## LadiesMan217 (Jul 22, 2017)

galaxydad said:


> My buddy told me an interesting story that I thought Id share and see what people on the forum have to say-
> 
> Semi final of a tournament (11 v 11 not U littles)- A non DA team was playing a DA team. The DA team takes a 1-0 lead and is passing the ball around real well. All the Non DA parents were impressed with the quality of play. The Non- DA team finds a way to tie it up and then takes the lead in the final 8 minutes.
> 
> ...


Sounds like your buddy did some shrooms and then had a hallucination about a soccer game. Why even post this or ask these questions? There are DA coaches that throw clipboards, there are non-DA coaches that assault underage girls... Whatever this story is about it is a generalization if it even happened. Many of the DA coaches are A level coaches and are superior to those D coaches. We need a dumbgeon for posts like this.


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## Kicknit22 (Jul 22, 2017)

Wow! Sounds like the DA coaches just showed how classless and inferior they actually are to these opposing coaches.  The object of any game is to win.  You see it in World Cup play game after game.   Teams "parking the bus" to conserve the win.  
But , you're not so naive as to believe that all DA coaches are superior to thier opposing Non-DA coaches, are you?  At least on the girls side, there are more "unqualified" coaches leading DA teams than "Qualified", as required by USSGDA.  Remember, the enforcement of "A" license is being overlooked.  Even if it were, just because a coach has an "A" license, doesn't make him/her a better coach than one who might carry an "E".


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## younothat (Jul 22, 2017)

Two coaches playing to win a tournament game,  the labels don't really matter....

The cliches about one team playing kickball, long ball, defensive, 4-5-1, 4-4-2 or whatever else are just mostly excuses,  "we where the better team but they got lucky on that last..... long ball, blah blah..." some of the things I hear from my kids get ridiculous sometimes.....


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## NoGoal (Jul 22, 2017)

galaxydad said:


> My buddy told me an interesting story that I thought Id share and see what people on the forum have to say-
> 
> Semi final of a tournament (11 v 11 not U littles)- A non DA team was playing a DA team. The DA team takes a 1-0 lead and is passing the ball around real well. All the Non DA parents were impressed with the quality of play. The Non- DA team finds a way to tie it up and then takes the lead in the final 8 minutes.
> 
> ...


I thought DA teams can't play in non-approved DA tournaments.  If approved isn't it in a DA only bracket.  At what tournament did these 2 teams play each other?


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## coachrefparent (Jul 22, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> I thought DA teams can't play in non-approved DA tournaments.  If approved isn't it in a DA only bracket.  At what tournament did these 2 teams play each other?


We might need to ask Buddy.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 22, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> I thought DA teams can't play in non-approved DA tournaments.  If approved isn't it in a DA only bracket.  At what tournament did these 2 teams play each other?


Come on NG....stop trolling DA...you know it doesn't officially start until 8/1


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## smellycleats (Jul 22, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> We might need to ask Buddy.


There are several things I'd like to ask Buddy.


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## Art (Jul 22, 2017)

Omg, well if they pulled that crap off then I would have a huge smirk at the end of the game. Talk about pretentiousness. 

We hype these teams up way too much. Their teens!!! The same physical attributes and rather sane lifestyles, not like one team is superhuman or royalty.

Also this is a tournament! To win is the goal of the game and especially in tournaments, their DA crap can be done in their "level of play" competition. 

If the non-DA was such a weak team the DA should have won!

Lets point out that to play nicely you down have to be termed DA or non DA. To be a great team you dont need to be DA or non Da...


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## Joe Diaz (Jul 22, 2017)

I hate when coaches tell their players to play defensevly and tells them to be all in the box.  That's not soccer.  What are the players learning?  To kick the ball out of the box as soon as they get it.   The non-DA coach played that tactic and he can do that any time.  It was up to the DA coach to have a solution against that tactic. IMO.


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## timbuck (Jul 22, 2017)

Need to play against whatever the other team throws at you.  Solving problems is part of developing a strong soccer IQ.  

However, the thing I hate most is coaches that go up a goal and immediate resort to kicking the ball as far out of bounds as possible l.


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## Kicknit22 (Jul 23, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Need to play against whatever the other team throws at you.  Solving problems is part of developing a strong soccer IQ.
> 
> However, the thing I hate most is coaches that go up a goal and immediate resort to kicking the ball as far out of bounds as possible l.


I agree there.  I honestly hate all the stall tactics.  Go ahead and play defensively if that's the plan, but don't pull all the stall tactic crap. That's just annoying.


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## coachrefparent (Jul 23, 2017)

Joe Diaz said:


> I hate when coaches tell their players to play defensevly and tells them to be all in the box.  That's not soccer.  What are the players learning?  To kick the ball out of the box as soon as they get it.   The non-DA coach played that tactic and he can do that any time.  It was up to the DA coach to have a solution against that tactic. IMO.


Yes, its the "worst" when coaches improperly tell their teams to play defense, especially when they have scored more goals than their supposedly "superior" opponent.
THAT. IS. SO WRONG.

Have the coaches and players never watched an NBA all star game or NFL pro Bowl game, where you only play offense? Jeez, they really need to learn how to play soccer.  And especially if the "lesser team's" defense is trying to clear a ball out of their penalty area during a ferocious attack by a "DA" team. Coach should demand they pass it around the box and play it out of the back.
Fools.

If they would just "honor the game," (aka futbol or soccer) they would play to the strengths of the opponent so the better (losing) team can get back into the game as god intended them to do, so they can all develop  (learn?) more. Stupid coach.


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## espola (Jul 23, 2017)

Joe Diaz said:


> I hate when coaches tell their players to play defensevly and tells them to be all in the box.  That's not soccer.  What are the players learning?  To kick the ball out of the box as soon as they get it.   The non-DA coach played that tactic and he can do that any time.  It was up to the DA coach to have a solution against that tactic. IMO.


That's not soccer?  What is it?

All team field sports have some sort of defense.  It's not bowling.


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## timbuck (Jul 23, 2017)

Don't they know that "better" teams are always supposed to win? 
Win you come in as a higher ranked team or a team with a DA patch vs non-DA you will likely find the teams that you are playing will employ tactics that might not be "traditional". 
Look at El Salvador vs USA  in the Gold Cup quarterfinals.   They played dirty knowing their best chance was to hurt someone or bait a player into throwing a punch and getting kicked out. 
Will DA teams all be playing the exact same style against each other?  That may create a prettier game than in the past, but will they have exposure to different styles?  Will they be able to grind out wins against teams with a "punchers chance" of winning


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## Lambchop (Jul 23, 2017)

galaxydad said:


> My buddy told me an interesting story that I thought Id share and see what people on the forum have to say-
> 
> Semi final of a tournament (11 v 11 not U littles)- A non DA team was playing a DA team. The DA team takes a 1-0 lead and is passing the ball around real well. All the Non DA parents were impressed with the quality of play. The Non- DA team finds a way to tie it up and then takes the lead in the final 8 minutes.
> 
> ...



First off, this was a boys team, correct?  The DA coach has no control over which clubs are accepted by US soccer.  Sounds like the coaches who went "ape crazy" are probably having what is typically called a "melt down", sort of like what a toddler would do and are not the type of coach that US soccer wants or prefers.


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## Lambchop (Jul 23, 2017)

younothat said:


> Two coaches playing to win a tournament game,  the labels don't really matter....
> 
> The cliches about one team playing kickball, long ball, defensive, 4-5-1, 4-4-2 or whatever else are just mostly excuses,  "we where the better team but they got lucky on that last..... long ball, blah blah..." some of the things I hear from my kids get ridiculous sometimes.....


But the reality is that sometimes the less skilled, the less athletic team gets a lucky break and scores either with the assistance of the ref or the environment (ie excessive wind).  It happens, it doesn't mean they have a better coach or a better team.


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## Lambchop (Jul 23, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Don't they know that "better" teams are always supposed to win?
> Win you come in as a higher ranked team or a team with a DA patch vs non-DA you will likely find the teams that you are playing will employ tactics that might not be "traditional".
> Look at El Salvador vs USA  in the Gold Cup quarterfinals.   They played dirty knowing their best chance was to hurt someone or bait a player into throwing a punch and getting kicked out.
> Will DA teams all be playing the exact same style against each other?  That may create a prettier game than in the past, but will they have exposure to different styles?  Will they be able to grind out wins against teams with a "punchers chance" of winning


Since so many of the girls coming into the new DA system have played for a few years, they absolutely can handle the "punchers" and "kickers" and dirty players.  They have been there and done that!


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## espola (Jul 23, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> But the reality is that sometimes the less skilled, the less athletic team gets a lucky break and scores either with the assistance of the ref or the environment (ie excessive wind).  It happens, it doesn't mean they have a better coach or a better team.


If not by wins, how do you measure that?


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## MakeAPlay (Jul 23, 2017)

espola said:


> If not by wins, how do you measure that?


A team's winning doesn't measure whether anyone's daughter is winning which I would equate to her being developed.  Having lots of ULittle trophies doesn't necessarily translate to a player that will make a YNT or have an impact in college.


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## espola (Jul 23, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> A team's winning doesn't measure whether anyone's daughter is winning which I would equate to her being developed.  Having lots of ULittle trophies doesn't necessarily translate to a player that will make a YNT or have an impact in college.


How do you measure "better team" when they are still Ulittles?


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## MakeAPlay (Jul 24, 2017)

espola said:


> How do you measure "better team" when they are still Ulittles?


I never mentioned a better team.


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## forsomuch (Jul 24, 2017)

I don't believe this u11 team was a DA team, they may be from a club that at the older level has DA teams but their u-littles are just u-littles. Selling the parents of 10 year olds that their kids are part of the Development Academy is money maker not an on field strategy.


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## socalkdg (Jul 24, 2017)

I think these teams were older than U11.   It was mentioned they played 11 vs 11.   

I think this was more about how the coaches reacted and not about who won or loss.   Instead of just shaking the other teams hands and saying good game, then using the game as a learning experience, these coaches showed they shouldn't be leading your kids to anything.


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## Bananacorner (Jul 24, 2017)

Kicknit22 said:


> I agree there.  I honestly hate all the stall tactics.  Go ahead and play defensively if that's the plan, but don't pull all the stall tactic crap. That's just annoying.


Its possible they "went ape-shit" due to excessive stall tactics, including my least favorite, subbing the same 4 players in and out every possible opportunity, so that it is a constant movement from the bench to eat up the minutes -- not from the other team trying to play defensively.  Just throwing it out there as the more plausible of the two.


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## younothat (Jul 24, 2017)

Likely a ussda club that has a tournament but doesn't have DA brackets since not enough of those types are interested or something like that,  my guess is Albion Cup since that was recently and fits the MO. 

Most of the time these are preseason teams with some players that are trying out or guesting and the label can be misleading sort of like some of the other teams labeled ECNL or whatever in tournaments I've seen and that hasn't even started yet.  Tournaments using Cal South Cards since they don't have usclub cards yet for the most part so don't get too caught on the pseudo labels.  

 Bottom line for that one game the better team won, no excuses, rants, or bs necessary.   Accepting defeat gracefully and respecting all opponents is part of the game, coaches should be teaching that.


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## JJP (Jul 25, 2017)

I'm wondering why the DA coaches are losing it because of late game defensive substitutions?  How does that violate DA policy?

Also, and this seems to be a problem common to the European academies as well, the DA system seems to be producing massive numbers or quality midfielders and wing players, but can't develop strikers at all.


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## Surfref (Jul 25, 2017)

Bananacorner said:


> Its possible they "went ape-shit" due to excessive stall tactics, including my least favorite, subbing the same 4 players in and out every possible opportunity, so that it is a constant movement from the bench to eat up the minutes -- not from the other team trying to play defensively.  Just throwing it out there as the more plausible of the two.


The subbing to stall the game will not happen in true DA vs DA games.  The subs are limited, so coaches have to choose when to sub carefully.


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## Justafan (Jul 25, 2017)

JJP said:


> I'm wondering why the DA coaches are losing it because of late game defensive substitutions?  How does that violate DA policy?


It doesn't violate any policy.  Bottom line is they were embarrassed to be losing to a non DA team, especially now since they are in the midst of the propaganda campaign to sell DA.


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## outside! (Jul 25, 2017)

galaxydad said:


> The DA coaches (and there are a bunch on the sideline) go nuts yelling at the non DA coach for his lack of class (for going defensive), they yell at him saying that they will make sure the non DA team never gets DA status ( I have no idea if they even want too, but found the words of choice interesting).


They seem to have made a good argument against closed leagues like DA, GDA and ECNL.


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## Joe Diaz (Jul 25, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> Yes, its the "worst" when coaches improperly tell their teams to play defense, especially when they have scored more goals than their supposedly "superior" opponent.
> THAT. IS. SO WRONG.
> 
> Have the coaches and players never watched an NBA all star game or NFL pro Bowl game, where you only play offense? Jeez, they really need to learn how to play soccer.  And especially if the "lesser team's" defense is trying to clear a ball out of their penalty area during a ferocious attack by a "DA" team. Coach should demand they pass it around the box and play it out of the back.
> ...


First of all how,  if the focus is on development, why do the coaches tell their players to kick it out of bound or boot it out of the box every time they get the ball?
IT IS SO WRONG.  The players are not being developed.  If the objective is to win games that way, then I'm dead wrong about development.  If it is about winning and getting trophies, then my mistake.


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## Joe Diaz (Jul 25, 2017)

espola said:


> That's not soccer?  What is it?
> 
> All team field sports have some sort of defense.  It's not bowling.


I'm not talking just about general defense.  Teach the players the correct way to play defense, not just put everyone in the box and boot it out.  What are the players learning by doing that?  Who cares if they loose.


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## Sheriff Joe (Jul 25, 2017)

Joe Diaz said:


> First of all how,  if the focus is on development, why do the coaches tell their players to kick it out of bound or boot it out of the box every time they get the ball?
> IT IS SO WRONG.  The players are not being developed.  If the objective is to win games that way, then I'm dead wrong about development.  If it is about winning and getting trophies, then my mistake.


I understand and agree, but a team with a bad record might not get invited to some of the big tourneys, just something to think about. I know this is a da thread, just sayin.


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## espola (Jul 25, 2017)

Joe Diaz said:


> I'm not talking just about general defense.  Teach the players the correct way to play defense, not just put everyone in the box and boot it out.  What are the players learning by doing that?  Who cares if they loose.


What  is the correct way to play defense?


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## LASTMAN14 (Jul 25, 2017)

espola said:


> What  is the correct way to play defense?


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## Joe Diaz (Jul 25, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


>


Just like that!  Lol....


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## wildcat66 (Jul 26, 2017)

Joe Diaz said:


> First of all how,  if the focus is on development, why do the coaches tell their players to kick it out of bound or boot it out of the box every time they get the ball?
> IT IS SO WRONG.  The players are not being developed.  If the objective is to win games that way, then I'm dead wrong about development.  If it is about winning and getting trophies, then my mistake.


     Once again the winning vs development argument rares its ugly head.  It is always funny and or discouraging depending what side you are on, when one of the locally based, low cost, unprofessionally coached teams beats one of the high priced, established, ranking seeking "real" soccer club teams.  Here is a news flash for the kool-aid drinking, scholarship seeking crazy soccer parents who gravitate toward those high dollar "real"  clubs.  My dd plays soccer because she likes the sport, she likes going to tounnaments to play "and win" and could care less if it is a DA, ECNL, CRL etc.  team, is going to give the team a better Got Soccer rating, or get her in front of more college coaches.  I see all those people on the DA team gasping in disbelief, "how can we lose?  We pay $2000+ a year, our coach has an accent, we have warm-ups with our names on them and matching back packs for Christ's sake.  That team just got a lucky goal and now are playing stall and eat the clock.  Thats not real soccer. That's not development.  That's not right"  Soccer's version of the recently used term "Snowflake"


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## Striker17 (Jul 26, 2017)

Wildcat coming in hot tonight ya all! PREACH


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## ray8 (Jul 27, 2017)

wildcat66 said:


> Once again the winning vs development argument rares its ugly head.  It is always funny and or discouraging depending what side you are on, when one of the locally based, low cost, unprofessionally coached teams beats one of the high priced, established, ranking seeking "real" soccer club teams.  Here is a news flash for the kool-aid drinking, scholarship seeking crazy soccer parents who gravitate toward those high dollar "real"  clubs.  My dd plays soccer because she likes the sport, she likes going to tounnaments to play "and win" and could care less if it is a DA, ECNL, CRL etc.  team, is going to give the team a better Got Soccer rating, or get her in front of more college coaches.  I see all those people on the DA team gasping in disbelief, "how can we lose?  We pay $2000+ a year, our coach has an accent, we have warm-ups with our names on them and matching back packs for Christ's sake.  That team just got a lucky goal and now are playing stall and eat the clock.  Thats not real soccer. That's not development.  That's not right"  Soccer's version of the recently used term "Snowflake"


Hey not all low cost teams play boot ball, nor do all DA teams choose development over winning. 
Actually, I don't know any DA or $2000+ club that doesn't put wins and egos above everything else.

There are two ways to enjoy a youth soccer game. It largely depends on taste. Bear with me here...
To be a violinist, well, a "real" violinist, takes years. Thousands of hours, doing scales and positioning and blah blah for years. Much like it takes to be a "real" soccer player.
But with that same instrument you can fiddle. I don't know how much dedication to the craft is required but I'm sure your daughter could be fiddling in a fraction of the time, should she choose to. She could even play Jailhouse Blues and beat a "real" violinist's version of Bach's #Whatever at a high school talent show. The real violinist's dad will have fought back the tears at the sight of his daughter creating such beauty. You'll be happy too. It's really fun to win. It's a matter of what you want from the experience.

By the way, local teams in Catalonia sometimes beat the Barcelona youth teams playing boot ball. Only at the youth level, though. Later they get crushed.


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## wildcat66 (Jul 27, 2017)

w


ray8 said:


> Hey not all low cost teams play boot ball, nor do all DA teams choose development over winning.
> Actually, I don't know any DA or $2000+ club that doesn't put wins and egos above everything else.
> 
> There are two ways to enjoy a youth soccer game. It largely depends on taste. Bear with me here...
> ...


Well my soccer game attendance will cease the minute she quits playing....and Charlie Daniels might have an issue with your analogy...


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