# NEW ECNL CHAT



## SoccerGuru

Making this to get away from BYE BYE girls DA thread which has turned very political and covid. 

What is everyone's guess about summer tournaments? Fall league? 

With Bundesliga and EPL starting up soon is this a sign that soccer should be allowed to have games?


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## Yellowcard

Thank you. I come here to escape all the Politics and Covid talk.


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## Son

A lot of summer tournaments and showcases already cancelled. I think Fall tournaments will be unlikely; just too many people in crowded areas.   I am hopeful there will be Fall league, but I anticipate most games will be driving distance.  

With Budesliga, other Euro leagues, MLS and USL practicing again, hopefully youth programs can start practice in the summer.


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## gotothebushes

SoccerGuru said:


> Making this to get away from BYE BYE girls DA thread which has turned very political and covid.
> 
> What is everyone's guess about summer tournaments? Fall league?
> 
> With Bundesliga and EPL starting up soon is this a sign that soccer should be allowed to have games?


  I don't there will be no summer tournaments and coaches are starting to be concerned about their coaching positions. With no soccer til end of July, who's going to pay these coaches. You think parents will flipped the bill til then?


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## Carlsbad10

Our ECNL club is starting to plan small group practices, all socially distanced.  But without a vaccine, I think all tournaments and fall leagues are off the table unfortunately.  I can't wait to watch Dortmund/Schalke this weekend but what they have to go thru to play isn't applicable to youth sports.  They are playing to keep half the clubs in the first two divisions of German soccer financially viable.  They are not playing only at one location, but they are testing the players multiple times per week and requiring socially distancing in between games.  One team has already in the second division had to self quarantine.  I hope this goes well but I could see it going terribly wrong quickly with Germany's rate of infection going up rapidly after they opened up some of the community.


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## kickingandscreaming

gotothebushes said:


> I don't there will be no summer tournaments and coaches are starting to be concerned about their coaching positions. With no soccer til end of July, who's going to pay these coaches. You think parents will flipped the bill til then?


I have to agree. I don't believe we'll be seeing soccer games this summer. I am just happy we are allowed to do some individual training on the local fields now as long as we distance ourselves and are from the same household. It feels good to get out again.


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## SoccerGuru

Carlsbad10 said:


> Our ECNL club is starting to plan small group practices, all socially distanced.  But without a vaccine, I think all tournaments and fall leagues are off the table unfortunately.  I can't wait to watch Dortmund/Schalke this weekend but what they have to go thru to play isn't applicable to youth sports.  They are playing to keep half the clubs in the first two divisions of German soccer financially viable.  They are not playing only at one location, but they are testing the players multiple times per week and requiring socially distancing in between games.  One team has already in the second division had to self quarantine.  I hope this goes well but I could see it going terribly wrong quickly with Germany's rate of infection going up rapidly after they opened up some of the community.


Really excited to see that game as well. I agree with your assessment but I am holding out hope for a fall league. I am very doubtful of any summer tournaments.


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## kickingandscreaming

Carlsbad10 said:


> Our ECNL club is starting to plan small group practices, all socially distanced.  But without a vaccine, I think all tournaments and fall leagues are off the table unfortunately.  I can't wait to watch Dortmund/Schalke this weekend but what they have to go thru to play isn't applicable to youth sports.  They are playing to keep half the clubs in the first two divisions of German soccer financially viable.  They are not playing only at one location, but they are testing the players multiple times per week and requiring socially distancing in between games.  One team has already in the second division had to self quarantine.  I hope this goes well but I could see it going terribly wrong quickly with Germany's rate of infection going up rapidly after they opened up some of the community.


Did your club give you any idea when you might get to start the training? Also, I'll be interested in when all families will be willing to get back to it. I can't say I have a feel for where my daughter's families are on starting training again.  I could see where the answer and, especially the subsequent responses to this could go down the road of the other threads, but we have a good start here and I promise not to be the one to wreck SoccerGuru's good intentions. My question is strictly out of curiosity.


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## EOTL

SoccerGuru said:


> Making this to get away from BYE BYE girls DA thread which has turned very political and covid.
> 
> What is everyone's guess about summer tournaments? Fall league?
> 
> With Bundesliga and EPL starting up soon is this a sign that soccer should be allowed to have games?


The Bundesliga and EPL have all the resources in the world to limit risk, which will probably include daily testing. They also have the committed personnel needed to minimize risk. Contrast that with SoCal youth soccer, where we have folks like, well, @Ellejustus. His club hopping alone will probably kill thousands.


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## MacDre

I


EOTL said:


> The Bundesliga and EPL have all the resources in the world to limit risk, which will probably include daily testing. They also have the committed personnel needed to minimize risk. Contrast that with SoCal youth soccer, where we have folks like, well, @Ellejustus. His club hopping alone will probably kill thousands.


I think Liga MX is gearing up too.  A doctor is checking in daily with all of the players.  Club Tijuana has also been posting pictures of a new team hotel being built in the stadium.  No official word yet though.


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## GT45

Cal South said yesterday that they are planning to run National Cup for U19's this summer. They cancelled for U18 and younger, but not the U19's.


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## soccer4us

I can see single league games in the fall but no tournaments until 2021 is my guess. If there are no games period until 2021 that would be a bit ridiculous in my opinion. I fully support safety for everyone but we also can't just sit idle forever. I know CA is trying to scare everyone like their going to be in big trouble but there ha to be a balance at some point in next few months.


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## SoccerGuru

I think there has to be games in the fall. Can ecnl survive with no games for a full season? Can any of these leagues? I’m not sure how ecnl makes money but I know club soccer isn’t the most stable business.


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## pokergod

soccer4us said:


> I can see single league games in the fall but no tournaments until 2021 is my guess. If there are no games period until 2021 that would be a bit ridiculous in my opinion. I fully support safety for everyone but we also can't just sit idle forever. I know CA is trying to scare everyone like their going to be in big trouble but there ha to be a balance at some point in next few months.


If college soccer in CA is going away for the fall, how can club soccer take place?  Hope I'm wrong but unfortunately looks like soccer games in January at the earliest.


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## GT45

Pokergod there is a huge difference between college and club. College means the students are back on campus. Club games are 40 people at a single field. And, college soccer has not cancelled anything yet. Even the one conference that is not playing in the fall, has only suspended and plans to play at some point.


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## blam

Would definitely be interested in getting my kids involved in takraw. It has enough social distancing and most soccer players who had the chance to try the game loved it.






Are there regular takraw of games in socal in the past?


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## pokergod

GT45 said:


> Pokergod there is a huge difference between college and club. College means the students are back on campus. Club games are 40 people at a single field. And, college soccer has not cancelled anything yet. Even the one conference that is not playing in the fall, has only suspended and plans to play at some point.


I understand there are differences.  But if you are a DOC and college soccer is postponed to January, are you going to be quick to open up.  My kids are doing private trainings and will be at the first practice.  But I think there will be a trickle down effect.


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## soccer4us

pokergod said:


> If college soccer in CA is going away for the fall, how can club soccer take place?  Hope I'm wrong but unfortunately looks like soccer games in January at the earliest.


Huge difference between college and youth in this case. It's more about the school piece with kids on campus. We'll see what the d1 schools do with football. For now, I think normal league play happens in fall. Maybe in LA county it's more a risk since they are saying lockdown for 3 more months already.

I saw Long Bech St. President saying they still plan to be in school in August and playing sports. Interesting since CSU chancellor said everything in fall will be online for the most part. I guess some schools don't agree.


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## Sokrplayer75

gotothebushes said:


> I don't there will be no summer tournaments and coaches are starting to be concerned about their coaching positions. With no soccer til end of July, who's going to pay these coaches. You think parents will flipped the bill til then?


Not sure about the olders, but as far as the youngers are concerned, I think most clubs have collected 2020-21 fees already, or are close to completing it. Could vary though.....stay safe and keep practicing!


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## Penalty Kicks Stink

For the older girls i believe the first competition they will see will be in High School.  No way to start a club season for a month and then shut down for HS season.


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## futboldad1

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> For the older girls i believe the first competition they will see will be in High School.  No way to start a club season for a month and then shut down for HS season.


It makes MUCH more sense to skip HS season, at least in So Cal..... the level is not good compared to ECNL, and many high schools will be remote learning until 2020..... it would open up a lot more scheduling time too...... so this is by far the easiest and most sensible solution that best serves top level players.....


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## EOTL

futboldad1 said:


> It makes MUCH more sense to skip HS season, at least in So Cal..... the level is not good compared to ECNL, and many high schools will be remote learning until 2020..... it would open up a lot more scheduling time too...... so this is by far the easiest and most sensible solution that best serves top level players.....


It’s better to play no soccer than HS soccer? I thought the GDA Mafia was dead, but apparently not.

It’s really funny that HS could end up saving the world (of youth soccer). At some point kids will need to get back into sports and community, and HS soccer presents easily the best option to get back to re-opening the world of youth sports. For one, HS is much better positioned than club to reduce the risk and scope of transmission. It will be much easier with HS to schedule games more locally, thereby limiting the distance that players travel and risk going to (or taking from) a region with higher transmission rates than their local community. Club also requires a lot closer contact and more contacts due to the travel, often requiring flying or large groups in a van and staying  in hotels.  With HS, you can make kids go to and from games separately. And HS sports provides a much needed sense of community and recognition by their peers that is very important to HS kids whose lives have been screwed over.

Why are we still having the stupid “I know the one and only way for your kid to be the best possible soccer player, and I also know that being the best possible soccer drone is the best and most important thing in life for your daughter” discussion? This way of thinking was wrong a year ago, and it is even more wrong now that keeping people from dying and also easing back into some semblance of community is far more important than making 15 year old girls into soccer drones. HS is easily the best and most appropriate way to do this.


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## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> It’s better to play no soccer than HS soccer? I thought the GDA Mafia was dead, but apparently not.
> 
> It’s really funny that HS could end up saving the world (of youth soccer). At some point kids will need to get back into sports and community, and HS soccer presents easily the best option to get back to re-opening the world of youth sports. For one, HS is much better positioned than club to reduce the risk and scope of transmission. It will be much easier with HS to schedule games more locally, thereby limiting the distance that players travel and risk going to (or taking from) a region with higher transmission rates than their local community. Club also requires a lot closer contact and more contacts due to the travel, often requiring flying or large groups in a van and staying  in hotels.  With HS, you can make kids go to and from games separately. And HS sports provides a much needed sense of community and recognition by their peers that is very important to HS kids whose lives have been screwed over.
> 
> Why are we still having the stupid “I know the one and only way for your kid to be the best possible soccer player, and I also know that being the best possible soccer drone is the best and most important thing in life for your daughter” discussion? This way of thinking was wrong a year ago, and it is even more wrong now that keeping people from dying and also easing back into some semblance of community is far more important than making 15 year old girls into soccer drones. HS is easily the best and most appropriate way to do this.


However, if your HS coach prefers to sit in their car and be on their phone rather than Coach a practice, it doesn’t do much for the level of play when you compare it to most of not all “higher” level of organized soccer (ie ECNL).
I know I’m not alone with this type of situation, however I also know that this example is not the case for many as well.  But it would explain why some don’t care about the HS game as much as you do.


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## SoccerGuru

PORTLAND THORNS ACADEMY TO JOIN ECNL GIRLS
					

RICHMOND, VA (May 11, 2020) – The Elite Clubs National League Girls is excited to announce that Portland Thorns Academy will be joining the ECNL Girls in the 2020-2021 season. The addition of the Portland Thorns FC brings one of the world’s most iconic women’s professional soccer brands into the...




					www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com
				




What does this do for ecnl? Isn't this the club that Tobin Heath is associated with as technical director? Are they any good?


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## EOTL

Kicker4Life said:


> However, if your HS coach prefers to sit in their car and be on their phone rather than Coach a practice, it doesn’t do much for the level of play when you compare it to most of not all “higher” level of organized soccer (ie ECNL).
> I know I’m not alone with this type of situation, however I also know that this example is not the case for many as well.  But it would explain why some don’t care about the HS game as much as you do.


Your hypothetical example is just nonsense. Yes, there are HS coaches and situations that aren’t ideal. Yes, there are also ECNL coaches and situations that are not ideal. Making up a fake reason as an example why one might not be great for someone in theory, and then extrapolating it out to rationalize why an entire system is terrible and also why everyone should just do what you want instead of what is best for them, is just more of the same b.s. that was proven wrong when the GDA collapsed.

Plus, the pandemic has put an unavoidable spotlight on the fact that making soccer drones is inconsequential compared to the sense of community, recognition among your peers, and building of self-esteem that HS sports provides and which is far more important to a child’s development as a person, now more than ever.


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## Ellejustus

I have to agree with EOTL on this one and I love HS Soccer!!!  At least give me some credit for loving HS Soccer eotl. Being called the dumbest and I love HS Soccer makes zero sense but whatever.  I actually believe HS Soccer will be the kick off for soccer and it will awesome.  I was say if you're a top player and you have a crappy hs school and coach or both, look to transfer to a private school or have a talk with the AD and get that lazy coach fired and find a good club coach who could use a few extra bucks.  Boosters can pay a little extra then the .75 an hour the HS coach gets from the district.


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## Desert Hound

EOTL said:


> For one, HS is much better positioned than club to reduce the risk and scope of transmission.


Really? How?

Safer in classes and in cafeterias and on the bus to school? Safer being around hundreds if not thousands of kids at HS? 

Safer taking the team bus to other HS games? Safer playing HS opponents on the field vs a club team?

Just curious how you make the statement that being in HS and playing in HS somehow reduces the risk and scope of transmission.


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## gotothebushes

Yes! This is the club Tobin Heath b


SoccerGuru said:


> PORTLAND THORNS ACADEMY TO JOIN ECNL GIRLS
> 
> 
> RICHMOND, VA (May 11, 2020) – The Elite Clubs National League Girls is excited to announce that Portland Thorns Academy will be joining the ECNL Girls in the 2020-2021 season. The addition of the Portland Thorns FC brings one of the world’s most iconic women’s professional soccer brands into the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does this do for ecnl? Isn't this the club that Tobin Heath is associated with as technical director? Are they any good?
> [/QUOTE
> Yes! This is the club Tobin Health belongs too. FC Portland should be worried about players moving over to Portland Thorns.


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## EOTL

Desert Hound said:


> Really? How?
> 
> Safer in classes and in cafeterias and on the bus to school? Safer being around hundreds if not thousands of kids at HS?
> 
> Safer taking the team bus to other HS games? Safer playing HS opponents on the field vs a club team?
> 
> Just curious how you make the statement that being in HS and playing in HS somehow reduces the risk and scope of transmission.


I explained that in my post.

When and whether HS goes back to session is completely independent of whether the risk of transmission playing sports in HS vs. club is higher. The risk of transmission in a class or a school bus or a cafeteria does not change regardless of whether they play ECNL or HS. Actually, that is wrong, it is higher if they play ECNL because playing ECNL means kids will have more exposures outside of HS than they otherwise would, and will then bring those exposures into the class, or cafeteria, or the bus, where the transmission will then spread like crazy. Plus, you’re exposed to kids at practice who go to 10 different schools, while if you play HS it’s just the same kids around you in class. The key to avoiding transmission is to reduce outside contacts and exposures.

And like I said earlier, there is no need to take a team bus to a HS game. HS schedules can be easily structured to avoid playing remote games that might require group transportation. And if you are in a HS that is so remote that it is not feasible to travel separately, then no HS sports. But if you’re that remote, you didn’t have ECNL anyway.

No one is coming to AZ or NV this year to play soccer regardless of whatever ill-conceived argument you bang out on your keyboard. The best argument you have is that it doesn’t matter one way or the other; we are all doomed because there are so many idiots out there like you that it is impossible to stay away from all of you.


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## dad4

I think the basic argument is that less travel is lower risk of transmission.  That is a solid argument.  It means GDA/ECNL are higher risk than HS/MS.  They both transmit the virus, but one sends it longer distances.

There is no point comparing indoor classes to outdoor soccer.  The indoor classes are clearly both higher risk and more important.


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## Dubs

Son said:


> A lot of summer tournaments and showcases already cancelled. I think Fall tournaments will be unlikely; just too many people in crowded areas.   I am hopeful there will be Fall league, but I anticipate most games will be driving distance.
> 
> With Budesliga, other Euro leagues, MLS and USL practicing again, hopefully youth programs can start practice in the summer.


I'm with you... Anything will be great at this point.  Just want to see them back on the field!


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## Esteban

gotothebushes said:


> Yes! This is the club Tobin Heath b


And Olivia Moultrie - the youngest professional female soccer player ever in America I believe.  Most of you know her, of course, but she's a 2005 (my daughter played against her once - unfortunately. It was 0-0 at half, we thought we were doing pretty well, and ended up losing 5-0 and it looked like they were playing with 20 girls and we had 11!) and she was going to be SOL for soccer next season if they didn't get this club into the ECNL ASAP.  I thought they'd put them in the first day possible like they did with SD Surf (and Real - why the rush putting in Real BTW?), but it took an extra 2 weeks for some reason.


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## Surf Zombie

Esteban said:


> And Olivia Moultrie - the youngest professional female soccer player ever in America I believe.  Most of you know her, of course, but she's a 2005 (my daughter played against her once - unfortunately. It was 0-0 at half, we thought we were doing pretty well, and ended up losing 5-0 and it looked like they were playing with 20 girls and we had 11!) and she was going to be SOL for soccer next season if they didn't get this club into the ECNL ASAP.  I thought they'd put them in the first day possible like they did with SD Surf (and Real - why the rush putting in Real BTW?), but it took an extra 2 weeks for some reason.


Wonder which team (age group) OM will be playing in?


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## SoccerGuru

Esteban said:


> And Olivia Moultrie - the youngest professional female soccer player ever in America I believe.  Most of you know her, of course, but she's a 2005 (my daughter played against her once - unfortunately. It was 0-0 at half, we thought we were doing pretty well, and ended up losing 5-0 and it looked like they were playing with 20 girls and we had 11!) and she was going to be SOL for soccer next season if they didn't get this club into the ECNL ASAP.  I thought they'd put them in the first day possible like they did with SD Surf (and Real - why the rush putting in Real BTW?), but it took an extra 2 weeks for some reason.


Is she as good as advertised? What makes her so good?


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## Esteban

SoccerGuru said:


> Is she as good as advertised? What makes her so good?


Olivia was debated extensively on this site when she turned pro in Feb of last year.  I think the thread was called "Turning Pro at 13?"

She's certainly a big deal with US Soccer as she has been on all of the younger national teams it seems (I think she's on the U17 one now?), she turned down a scholarship to North Carolina, and Nike made her one of their soccer reps with a contract that purportedly paid her "hundreds of thousands of dollars" to rep the Nike brand.

She played up on the oldest Portland Thorns DA team so I assume she'll do the same thing this season.  She can't play college soccer so I assume she'll do the ECNL for a few years and then move into the NWSL after that.  They've never had a minor play in that league so maybe she has to wait until she's 18 so that will mean 3 years of ECNL and then she'll keep playing for the US team of course.  I think she's considered the top 2005 female player in the country, but lots can happen in the next 5-7 years so who knows.


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## Desert Hound

dad4 said:


> I think the basic argument is that less travel is lower risk of transmission.  That is a solid argument.  It means GDA/ECNL are higher risk than HS/MS.  They both transmit the virus, but one sends it longer distances.
> 
> There is no point comparing indoor classes to outdoor soccer.  The indoor classes are clearly both higher risk and more important.


If HS is open and HS sports are happening, then club sports will be in full swing.


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## GT45

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> For the older girls i believe the first competition they will see will be in High School.  No way to start a club season for a month and then shut down for HS season.


Are you aware that Cal South said yesterday that they plan to have a U19 National Cup this summer?


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## EOTL

Desert Hound said:


> If HS is open and HS sports are happening, then club sports will be in full swing.


Your all or nothing approach to pandemic awareness and prevention is, uh, unique. It’s too early in the year even in AZ to attribute your irrational opinions to heat stroke, so peyote then?


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## Dof3

EOTL said:


> Your all or nothing approach to pandemic awareness and prevention is, uh, unique. It’s too early in the year even in AZ to attribute your irrational opinions to heat stroke, so peyote then?





			https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/04/30/child-abuse-reports-coronavirus/
		


You are corrupting another thread with a pretty myopic take on the pandemic and its varied consequences.  You insist that people affirmatively state that, by wanting to open the economy and not bankrupt small and large businesses alike, preserve the widespread availability of air travel, preserve an economy that funds medical research and on-demand care, not add trillions upon trillions of dollars to the national debt that will be the responsibility of those of us who are younger than 60, that they believe it is worth killing old people in order to open up.  See the attached.  Are you prepared to accept that you want children abused in greater numbers in order to protect yourself and other elderly people from this virus?  What about spousal abuse?  Cancer deaths?  Suicides?  If we are going to play the moral hazard game, step right up and take your own seat as well.  If you are not prepared to state that you want more children beaten, depressed people to kill themselves, cancer patients to die and livelihoods destroyed to avoid more older people getting sick, then maybe you should shut-up.  And if you are, then maybe you should spend some time reflecting about what kind of person you are at this point.  Older people sheltering in place and otherwise following safety guidelines have a chance to keep themselves safe  Forcing all people to shelter in place is certainly resulting in more kids getting beaten to the point of hospitalization and other sick people dying in greater numbers.  There can be more than one bad outcome from this and your disregard of the real and escalating consequences to others makes you exactly the selfish jerk that you are seeing in so many others.


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## Desert Hound

EOTL said:


> Your all or nothing approach to pandemic awareness and prevention is, uh, unique. It’s too early in the year even in AZ to attribute your irrational opinions to heat stroke, so peyote then?


I am just pointing out that if state governments are opening HS and allowing HS sports, then club sports will be going on. 

You doubt that?


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## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> Your hypothetical example is just nonsense. Yes, there are HS coaches and situations that aren’t ideal. Yes, there are also ECNL coaches and situations that are not ideal. Making up a fake reason as an example why one might not be great for someone in theory, and then extrapolating it out to rationalize why an entire system is terrible and also why everyone should just do what you want instead of what is best for them, is just more of the same b.s. that was proven wrong when the GDA collapsed.
> 
> Plus, the pandemic has put an unavoidable spotlight on the fact that making soccer drones is inconsequential compared to the sense of community, recognition among your peers, and building of self-esteem that HS sports provides and which is far more important to a child’s development as a person, now more than ever.


So how do you know it’s a “made up example”?  Is it because it fits your narrative?  Unfortunately, I know this to be fact.


My entire point was that one CAN NOT extrapolate or rationalize an entirety off of a single example.  Why are you are you arguing that point when we pretty much agree?


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## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> I have to agree with EOTL on this one and I love HS Soccer!!!  At least give me some credit for loving HS Soccer eotl. Being called the dumbest and I love HS Soccer makes zero sense but whatever.  I actually believe HS Soccer will be the kick off for soccer and it will awesome.  I was say if you're a top player and you have a crappy hs school and coach or both, look to transfer to a private school or have a talk with the AD and get that lazy coach fired and find a good club coach who could use a few extra bucks.  Boosters can pay a little extra then the .75 an hour the HS coach gets from the district.


My point is NOT against HS Soccer as a whole. My DD is pretty stoked about playing but would prefer the experience be “different” than what our neighbor experienced in her 4 yrs starting as a Varsity Captain. That again is program specific and purely from a competitive standpoint.  I agree on the Social benefits. 

If the AD asks my opinion, I will certainly give it.


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## EOTL

Dof3 said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/04/30/child-abuse-reports-coronavirus/
> 
> 
> 
> You are corrupting another thread with a pretty myopic take on the pandemic and its varied consequences.  You insist that people affirmatively state that, by wanting to open the economy and not bankrupt small and large businesses alike, preserve the widespread availability of air travel, preserve an economy that funds medical research and on-demand care, not add trillions upon trillions of dollars to the national debt that will be the responsibility of those of us who are younger than 60, that they believe it is worth killing old people in order to open up.  See the attached.  Are you prepared to accept that you want children abused in greater numbers in order to protect yourself and other elderly people from this virus?  What about spousal abuse?  Cancer deaths?  Suicides?  If we are going to play the moral hazard game, step right up and take your own seat as well.  If you are not prepared to state that you want more children beaten, depressed people to kill themselves, cancer patients to die and livelihoods destroyed to avoid more older people getting sick, then maybe you should shut-up.  And if you are, then maybe you should spend some time reflecting about what kind of person you are at this point.  Older people sheltering in place and otherwise following safety guidelines have a chance to keep themselves safe  Forcing all people to shelter in place is certainly resulting in more kids getting beaten to the point of hospitalization and other sick people dying in greater numbers.  There can be more than one bad outcome from this and your disregard of the real and escalating consequences to others makes you exactly the selfish jerk that you are seeing in so many others.


Whoa, so defensive. Relax Mr. Over(nuclear)reactor. I was only talking about how HS soccer is the better option to restart playing youth sports once things start opening up. Any “corrupting the thread” is all you buddy, and solely attributable to your 3000 word non sequitur. I have no idea what beating your children has to do with the issue of whether HS or ECNL is the better place to get back into the swing of youth sports.

But if it’s that easy to get under your skin and you’re so insistent on continuing to rationalize why killing old people is worth saving your wallet, ok, let’s do it. I have a great idea to reduce the problem of rising domestic violence during shelter in place restrictions (or any time). Let’s take away all yer guns as long as we’re also taking away your money and your fundamental constitutional right to throw it away on travel to NV for U13 league games (and probably also strippers).


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## EOTL

EOTL said:


> Whoa, so defensive. Relax Mr. Over(nuclear)reactor. I was only talking about how HS soccer is the better option to restart playing youth sports once things start opening up. Any “corrupting the thread” is all you buddy, and solely attributable to your 3000 word non sequitur. I have no idea what beating your children has to do with the issue of whether HS or ECNL is the better place to get back into the swing of youth sports.
> 
> But if it’s that easy to get under your skin and you’re so insistent on continuing to rationalize why killing old people is worth saving your wallet, ok, let’s do it. I have a great idea to reduce the problem of rising domestic violence during shelter in place restrictions (or any time). Let’s take away all yer guns as long as we’re also taking away your money and your fundamental constitutional right to throw it away on travel to NV for U13 league games (and probably also strippers).


Man, that last sentence was a good one.

I also seriously take offensive with your “we need to do it for the children” after-the-fact rationalization for re-opening the economy. It took you, what, ten angry white guy posts, including most of the last one, about how shelter-in-place is bad for your pocket book before coming up with that excuse? You aren’t serious about child abuse, it’s just a convenient excuse to hide your real, selfish motives. People see through your bs. Are you ready to get back to the HS v ECNL debate, or do I need to teach you more about yourself?


----------



## Ellejustus




----------



## youthsportsugh

SoccerGuru said:


> PORTLAND THORNS ACADEMY TO JOIN ECNL GIRLS
> 
> 
> RICHMOND, VA (May 11, 2020) – The Elite Clubs National League Girls is excited to announce that Portland Thorns Academy will be joining the ECNL Girls in the 2020-2021 season. The addition of the Portland Thorns FC brings one of the world’s most iconic women’s professional soccer brands into the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does this do for ecnl? Isn't this the club that Tobin Heath is associated with as technical director? Are they any good?


It is Tobin Heath's club, Standings wise in the DA all of the teams were near the bottom of the Northwest division. I don't know how they are perceived in the Portland area for soccer, but their professional team is highly thought of it seems as they average 20K attendance. Not sure if they will draw more to the club now that they will be ECNL and can play HS soccer (at least an option possibly - totally a club parameter).


----------



## Giesbock

Dof3 said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2020/04/30/child-abuse-reports-coronavirus/
> 
> 
> 
> You are corrupting another thread with a pretty myopic take on the pandemic and its varied consequences.  You insist that people affirmatively state that, by wanting to open the economy and not bankrupt small and large businesses alike, preserve the widespread availability of air travel, preserve an economy that funds medical research and on-demand care, not add trillions upon trillions of dollars to the national debt that will be the responsibility of those of us who are younger than 60, that they believe it is worth killing old people in order to open up.  See the attached.  Are you prepared to accept that you want children abused in greater numbers in order to protect yourself and other elderly people from this virus?  What about spousal abuse?  Cancer deaths?  Suicides?  If we are going to play the moral hazard game, step right up and take your own seat as well.  If you are not prepared to state that you want more children beaten, depressed people to kill themselves, cancer patients to die and livelihoods destroyed to avoid more older people getting sick, then maybe you should shut-up.  And if you are, then maybe you should spend some time reflecting about what kind of person you are at this point.  Older people sheltering in place and otherwise following safety guidelines have a chance to keep themselves safe  Forcing all people to shelter in place is certainly resulting in more kids getting beaten to the point of hospitalization and other sick people dying in greater numbers.  There can be more than one bad outcome from this and your disregard of the real and escalating consequences to others makes you exactly the selfish jerk that you are seeing in so many others.
> 
> Those of us who live in Southern CA (and even more so in outskirts like IE, OC, SB, etc. are being spared the dire conditions for our city dwelling brothers and sisters...never in their own car, instead packed into a train or bus. Do you walk up 5 flights of a dank stairwell to get to your apartment? Or do you climb into the elevator cab, hit the button with the back of a knuckle in some hope of diminishing the chance of virus transfer?  Other side of the same coin, are the cupboards bare due to job lost while you look around your community and count an infection rate of .002 % or listen to someone you respect say that a percentage of those dying from Covid would have died anyway within the next few months...
> 
> All perspective. We gotta suck it up and cut each other some slack. Especially since presumably all of us on this forum are a Community that’s bound together by the common cause of soccer and our sons and daughters.


----------



## El Cap

Can you guys all STFU about covid-19, social justice and all the political BS on just 1 thread?


----------



## EOTL

El Cap said:


> Can you guys all STFU about covid-19, social justice and all the political BS on just 1 thread?


But how will @Dof3 get the last word then?


----------



## El Clasico

Sokrplayer75 said:


> Not sure about the olders, but as far as the youngers are concerned, I think most clubs have collected 2020-21 fees already, or are close to completing it. Could vary though.....stay safe and keep practicing!


What club are you with? Slammers maybe?  I don't know of anyone who has already paid their 2020-21 fees. I guess that anyone that has should probably kiss that money goodbye. We'll call it the dummy fee.


----------



## dad4

I don't mind too much paying club fees for zoom trainings, as long as it means the club is still paying the coaches.  They have to make rent like everyone else.


----------



## temecs

El Clasico said:


> What club are you with? Slammers maybe?  I don't know of anyone who has already paid their 2020-21 fees. I guess that anyone that has should probably kiss that money goodbye. We'll call it the dummy fee.


Legends Temecula Valley had their tryouts for 2006 and youngers back in January/February. We signed our contract back in late February with a downpayment. So I am guessing a lot of youngers have made payments for the 2020-21 season.


----------



## youthsportsugh

dad4 said:


> I don't mind too much paying club fees for zoom trainings, as long as it means the club is still paying the coaches.  They have to make rent like everyone else.


I agree with that -- we paid for the spring season which is technically still going  with zoom meetings and physical training outlines and drills for the girls to continue working their games.  As far as the 20-21 season we are paying a fee to "hold" our spot in the club, but nothing big like a fee for regular season stuff until the club knows what that will entail.


----------



## Dof3

EOTL said:


> Man, that last sentence was a good one.
> 
> I also seriously take offensive with your “we need to do it for the children” after-the-fact rationalization for re-opening the economy. It took you, what, ten angry white guy posts, including most of the last one, about how shelter-in-place is bad for your pocket book before coming up with that excuse? You aren’t serious about child abuse, it’s just a convenient excuse to hide your real, selfish motives. People see through your bs. Are you ready to get back to the HS v ECNL debate, or do I need to teach you more about yourself?


Hardly.  But enjoy your deflections.  And take all the offense you want.  I hope you do.  You deserve it with the nonsense you are spewing on here.  I have posted exactly once on any of this and it took me no time at all to recognize that you are acknowledging only one of the many legitimate concerns.  Yes, my pocketbook matters.  My pocketbook pays taxes, which is the source of the trillions that are now being expended to keep America from collapsing in on itself.  That is not hyperbole.  But, while my pocketbook matters, so does my 79 year old father who I pulled from a skilled nursing facility in another state a few weeks ago that now has more than 50 dead from the coronavirus.  My father is living with me now and I consider very carefully how my behavior and that of others affects him.  But, despite my vested interest in keeping my old person safe, there are other legitimate points of view.  There are severe consequences to these restrictions and we are past time for an honest dialogue about these next steps, which are difficult, dangerous and *inevitable*.  We have added $6 Trillion to the national debt to maintain these shut down orders for 3-4 months at most.  California just swung from a $35 billion surplus to a $55 billion deficit in 60 days.  30 million people lost their jobs already.  A vaccine could be a year or more away.  So, yes, opening up is inevitable.  Stop being so ignorant and look beyond your immediate self-interest.

As for HS or ECNL, if a kid wants to play and is good enough to play, great, play.  If not, don't.  Same for ECNL.  Debate settled.      

Point taken, El Cap.  Last words from me.


----------



## dad4

Dof3 said:


> Hardly.  But enjoy your deflections.  And take all the offense you want.  I hope you do.  You deserve it with the nonsense you are spewing on here.  I have posted exactly once on any of this and it took me no time at all to recognize that you are acknowledging only one of the many legitimate concerns.  Yes, my pocketbook matters.  My pocketbook pays taxes, which is the source of the trillions that are now being expended to keep America from collapsing in on itself.  That is not hyperbole.  But, while my pocketbook matters, so does my 79 year old father who I pulled from a skilled nursing facility in another state a few weeks ago that now has more than 50 dead from the coronavirus.  My father is living with me now and I consider very carefully how my behavior and that of others affects him.  But, despite my vested interest in keeping my old person safe, there are other legitimate points of view.  There are severe consequences to these restrictions and we are past time for an honest dialogue about these next steps, which are difficult, dangerous and *inevitable*.  We have added $6 Trillion to the national debt to maintain these shut down orders for 3-4 months at most.  California just swung from a $35 billion surplus to a $55 billion deficit in 60 days.  30 million people lost their jobs already.  A vaccine could be a year or more away.  So, yes, opening up is inevitable.  Stop being so ignorant and look beyond your immediate self-interest.
> 
> As for HS or ECNL, if a kid wants to play and is good enough to play, great, play.  If not, don't.  Same for ECNL.  Debate settled.
> 
> Point taken, El Cap.  Last words from me.


Good news thread is a better spot for this.


----------



## EOTL

Dof3 said:


> Hardly.  But enjoy your deflections.  And take all the offense you want.  I hope you do.  You deserve it with the nonsense you are spewing on here.  I have posted exactly once on any of this and it took me no time at all to recognize that you are acknowledging only one of the many legitimate concerns.  Yes, my pocketbook matters.  My pocketbook pays taxes, which is the source of the trillions that are now being expended to keep America from collapsing in on itself.  That is not hyperbole.  But, while my pocketbook matters, so does my 79 year old father who I pulled from a skilled nursing facility in another state a few weeks ago that now has more than 50 dead from the coronavirus.  My father is living with me now and I consider very carefully how my behavior and that of others affects him.  But, despite my vested interest in keeping my old person safe, there are other legitimate points of view.  There are severe consequences to these restrictions and we are past time for an honest dialogue about these next steps, which are difficult, dangerous and *inevitable*.  We have added $6 Trillion to the national debt to maintain these shut down orders for 3-4 months at most.  California just swung from a $35 billion surplus to a $55 billion deficit in 60 days.  30 million people lost their jobs already.  A vaccine could be a year or more away.  So, yes, opening up is inevitable.  Stop being so ignorant and look beyond your immediate self-interest.
> 
> As for HS or ECNL, if a kid wants to play and is good enough to play, great, play.  If not, don't.  Same for ECNL.  Debate settled.
> 
> Point taken, El Cap.  Last words from me.


Your father was very fortunate. Too bad about the others who didn’t have someone like you, or the next batch to follow, eh?


----------



## GT45

Are you all aware that you can hit the ignore button on specific users names? It would eliminate this back and forth arguing. You simply never see their posts. Click on their User Name. You will have the option to click on ignore.


----------



## SoccerGuru

GT45 said:


> Are you all aware that you can hit the ignore button on specific users names? It would eliminate this back and forth arguing. You simply never see their posts. Click on their User Name. You will have the option to click on ignore.


Yes that is an option, But they both give good soccer comments And insight when they aren’t caught up in all the political stuff.


----------



## ginga

El Cap said:


> Can you guys all STFU about covid-19, social justice and all the political BS on just 1 thread?


these people need an audience for their stupid rants. they ruined the other post and now they’re trying to ruin this one.


----------



## Surf Zombie

ECNL GIRLS ANNOUNCE NEW ADDITIONS TO THE ECNL REGIONAL LEAGUE - HEARTLAND FOR 2020-21 SEASON
					

Elite Clubs National League – Regional Leagues are operated and managed by the ECNL to insure professionalism, standards, and exceptional experience   RICHMOND, VA (May 15, 2020) – The Elite Clubs National League Girls is excited to announce the addition of four new clubs to the ECNL Girls...




					www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com
				




Couple former GDA clubs to the regional league.


----------



## timbuck

Kicker4Life said:


> My point is NOT against HS Soccer as a whole. My DD is pretty stoked about playing but would prefer the experience be “different” than what our neighbor experienced in her 4 yrs starting as a Varsity Captain. That again is program specific and purely from a competitive standpoint.  I agree on the Social benefits.
> 
> If the AD asks my opinion, I will certainly give it.


Quick comment on HS soccer.
How often do you see kids wearing a club t-shirt/jacket when not at a club game or practice?  Not very often is my observation.

I see girls from the local high schools wearing a high school soccer t-shirt/sweatshirt/jacket ALL the time.  (My kid has been living in hers lately).

It doesn't mean the soccer is that great.  But I think it's important to recognize that our kids are pretty proud to play for their HS.


----------



## vegasguy

Surf Zombie said:


> ECNL GIRLS ANNOUNCE NEW ADDITIONS TO THE ECNL REGIONAL LEAGUE - HEARTLAND FOR 2020-21 SEASON
> 
> 
> Elite Clubs National League – Regional Leagues are operated and managed by the ECNL to insure professionalism, standards, and exceptional experience   RICHMOND, VA (May 15, 2020) – The Elite Clubs National League Girls is excited to announce the addition of four new clubs to the ECNL Girls...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Couple former GDA clubs to the regional league.



Seems Like ECNL / ECRL is playing a different chess match than the GA right now.


----------



## Giesbock

vegasguy said:


> Seems Like ECNL / ECRL is playing a different chess match than the GA right now.


Can you expand on that?  Looks to me like GA has settled their regions, keeping it manageable, while ECNL and ECRL is adding teams weekly to reduce travel but at the same time, perhaps diluting the elite-ness..


----------



## vegasguy

Giesbock said:


> Can you expand on that?  Looks to me like GA has settled their regions, keeping it manageable, while ECNL and ECRL is adding teams weekly to reduce travel but at the same time, perhaps diluting the elite-ness..



Just appears that ECNL has made moves to block GA from becoming a major threat.  Socal with Surf, Legends, Beach all jumping to ECNL / ECRL leaves those other teams in a rough spot.  ECNL seems to add very good clubs to block the GA from having those very good clubs involved.   ECNL will have larger conferences with what appears to be less travel than the GA and I think there will be top clubs and middle clubs.  I do not see ECNL/ECRL having true bottom feeders.  I could be wrong.   Do you think GA is more elite in nature or less diluted? (not trying to start an argument as we all have gone down that sinkhole)  I think ECNL / ECRL SW Conference is a bear of a place to play on both the boys and girls side.  Just my opinion.


----------



## Surf Zombie

Travel looks really unmanageable in a few of the GAL conferences. SE, NW & Frontier in particular.


----------



## Esteban

Just think about how huge this country is (size and population) and the GA has less than 60 teams spread across the entire country.  I think the DA tried to do the same thing with about 65 teams, but they were going to lose a few back to ECNL this year if they had not disbanded.

The ECNL, on the other hand, now has about 120 clubs between ECNL/ECRL spread out over about the same area.  That's not great, but it's _twice_ as good as the DA last year and the GA this year.  I grew up in Texas and the travel in that GA region is incomprehensible to me and, to make matters worse, the GA/DPL teams probably WON'T be using buses this season for their long trips.  The families will travel alone most likely to those away games and most of them are in other states.  It's just too much, in my opinion, for the GA.  The DA was able to convince clubs to do it for a couple of years, but maybe their small number of teams helped them decide to disband the DA given all of the travel issues going forward.  That can all change with a vaccine, of course, but we have no vaccine for SARS and MERS so it could it could be a while before we get one for Covid.

Another issue for the GA is it just looks bad that many of their top clubs are eager to accept an ECRL-only invitation from the ECNL for this upcoming season.  If they were truly "all in" on the GA concept, then you'd expect them to turn down the ECRL and just move forward with GA and DPL teams.

Everyone can understand FC Dallas dumping the GA a week after it was announced to return to full ECNL membership, but teams like Legends, Beach, etc. only received ECRL invites.  In addition, the ECRL/GA teams like Beach told the GA their top teams would only do the GA, but I sincerely doubt that will be the case.


----------



## ToonArmy

vegasguy said:


> Just appears that ECNL has made moves to block GA from becoming a major threat.  Socal with Surf, Legends, Beach all jumping to ECNL / ECRL leaves those other teams in a rough spot.  ECNL seems to add very good clubs to block the GA from having those very good clubs involved.   ECNL will have larger conferences with what appears to be less travel than the GA and I think there will be top clubs and middle clubs.  I do not see ECNL/ECRL having true bottom feeders.  I could be wrong.   Do you think GA is more elite in nature or less diluted? (not trying to start an argument as we all have gone down that sinkhole)  I think ECNL / ECRL SW Conference is a bear of a place to play on both the boys and girls side.  Just my opinion.


Blues and Galaxy former DA clubs and strong ones not in GA also along with Surf Real So Cal and rumored Beach and Legends A teams former DA teams. Definitely leaves those other clubs in a rough spot imagine if Beach and Legends got in ECNL next year and no longer had any teams in GA would become an 8 team league with 3 out of state. The Galaxy team I am a bit familiar with the players joined Beach Slammers Breakers ECNL/ECRL


----------



## Giesbock

vegasguy said:


> Just appears that ECNL has made moves to block GA from becoming a major threat.  Socal with Surf, Legends, Beach all jumping to ECNL / ECRL leaves those other teams in a rough spot.  ECNL seems to add very good clubs to block the GA from having those very good clubs involved.   ECNL will have larger conferences with what appears to be less travel than the GA and I think there will be top clubs and middle clubs.  I do not see ECNL/ECRL having true bottom feeders.  I could be wrong.   Do you think GA is more elite in nature or less diluted? (not trying to start an argument as we all have gone down that sinkhole)  I think ECNL / ECRL SW Conference is a bear of a place to play on both the boys and girls side.  Just my opinion.





ToonArmy said:


> Blues and Galaxy former DA clubs and strong ones not in GA also along with Surf Real So Cal and rumored Beach and Legends A teams former DA teams. Definitely leaves those other clubs in a rough spot imagine if Beach and Legends got in ECNL next year and no longer had any teams in GA would become an 8 team league with 3 out of state. The Galaxy team I am a bit familiar with the players joined Beach Slammers Breakers ECNL/ECRL


All in all it sounds little like GA is a frail startup confronting the ECNL juggernaut. Scary for involved players and parents who can only say : “we trust you coach.”


----------



## timbuck

I just saw an ad for tryouts.  They mention:
ECNL (regional I think.  But they kinda hide this part). 
GAL
DPL
SCDSL
From the looks of how they are showing coaching assignments-  the ECNL RL and the GAL team will either be 1 team or the coach will have both teams.


----------



## max.fff

Pats' post says former GDA teams will play in both ECNL RL and GAL. Their respective reserve or second teams will stay in DPL. Interesting to see how the ECRL/GAL team will manage both league play at the same time... maybe communication between those leagues? We'll see


----------



## Ellejustus

I wrote this over at the CO thread.  I want to petition Mr Lavers to add Beach & Legends to the ECNL fold.  Their arguably the two best clubs with the best teams in the country, at least at the 03 and 04 age groups.  

Great info on CO bro. My buddy from the YP days moved to Highlands Ranch and then a few more moved to HR. They all love it there and I used to see their pics all the time on FB. My wife and I almost "checked" it out in 2003. That Real CO 04' team is tough with maybe a future WNT player on that team. I just talked to my neighbor and he and his wifey and two kids are out of here and are moving to CO. I will ask what city. He said he can;t take it anymore in Cali and wants to be free and be outdoors. I can say when I see my old pal and his peace, I get a little jealous. However, I love the *Beach* and I have to* Surf* even though I get *Slammers* and *Slammers* some more when I hit the shore break hard. *Real So Cal *Elite Surfing Club will be coming soon with beach soccer. *Socal Blues *oceans are a site to be scene. I know I'm a *Legend* in my own mind, but heck, if your not *Gunners *for the best, then why try being the best *Strikers* off all time? Some of the beaches have some big* Breakers* and the *Sharks* are always trying kill us in the water, we must sore like the* Eagles* and never give up  I know I'm a *Rebels* and take a lot of *Heat* from some of you, let's all try and find the middle grown so we can reboot this planet. Lying and cheating seem to be the #1 issue. Let's try and just do a white lie and leave the dangerous and evil lies out and we should be all good. The sun is always *Rising* in the East and I will always carry my *Arsenal *with me 

16 in the SW ECNL Conference ((Mr Lavers, unless I'm out of the loop, we need Beach & Legends top teams added to the 2020-2021 season))

*West Coast Division*
Beach FC
LAFC
Real Socal
Socal Blues
LA Breakers
Strikers
Eagles
Slammers

*Desert Division*
San Diego Surf
Arsenal AZ
Phoenix Rising
Rebels
Del mar Sharks
Las Vegas Heat
Legends
Arsenal Inland E


----------



## Sandypk

max.fff said:


> Pats' post says former GDA teams will play in both ECNL RL and GAL. Their respective reserve or second teams will stay in DPL. Interesting to see how the ECRL/GAL team will manage both league play at the same time... maybe communication between those leagues? We'll see


So, can ECRL be the main league like SCDSL used to be for these clubs and GAL be the second league they play in like CRL?   I know in the past many of the 1st teams played in both “leagues”.  Is this how Pats, Beach, West Coast, and Legends will have one team in both leagues?  One crazy good team killing their opponents (who have the real ECNL teams) 2nd teams.  There are going to be some serious blowouts, not very competitive for a few teams.


----------



## SoccerGuru

Ellejustus said:


> I wrote this over at the CO thread.  I want to petition Mr Lavers to add Beach & Legends to the ECNL fold.  Their arguably the two best clubs with the best teams in the country, at least at the 03 and 04 age groups.
> 
> Great info on CO bro. My buddy from the YP days moved to Highlands Ranch and then a few more moved to HR. They all love it there and I used to see their pics all the time on FB. My wife and I almost "checked" it out in 2003. That Real CO 04' team is tough with maybe a future WNT player on that team. I just talked to my neighbor and he and his wifey and two kids are out of here and are moving to CO. I will ask what city. He said he can;t take it anymore in Cali and wants to be free and be outdoors. I can say when I see my old pal and his peace, I get a little jealous. However, I love the *Beach* and I have to* Surf* even though I get *Slammers* and *Slammers* some more when I hit the shore break hard. *Real So Cal *Elite Surfing Club will be coming soon with beach soccer. *Socal Blues *oceans are a site to be scene. I know I'm a *Legend* in my own mind, but heck, if your not *Gunners *for the best, then why try being the best *Strikers* off all time? Some of the beaches have some big* Breakers* and the *Sharks* are always trying kill us in the water, we must sore like the* Eagles* and never give up  I know I'm a *Rebels* and take a lot of *Heat* from some of you, let's all try and find the middle grown so we can reboot this planet. Lying and cheating seem to be the #1 issue. Let's try and just do a white lie and leave the dangerous and evil lies out and we should be all good. The sun is always *Rising* in the East and I will always carry my *Arsenal *with me
> 
> 16 in the SW ECNL Conference ((Mr Lavers, unless I'm out of the loop, we need Beach & Legends top teams added to the 2020-2021 season))
> 
> *West Coast Division*
> Beach FC
> LAFC
> Real Socal
> Socal Blues
> LA Breakers
> Strikers
> Eagles
> Slammers
> 
> *Desert Division*
> San Diego Surf
> Arsenal AZ
> Phoenix Rising
> Rebels
> Del mar Sharks
> Las Vegas Heat
> Legends
> Arsenal Inland E


Please stop posting. Your posts are always nonsense and never have any substance besides telling about some part of your life. You seem like the type that talks to strangers and tells them your life story.....oh wait you already do that here.


----------



## Ellejustus

SoccerGuru said:


> Please stop posting. Your posts are always nonsense and never have any substance besides telling about some part of your life. You seem like the type that talks to strangers and tells them your life story.....oh wait you already do that here.


Guru, I'm sorry but I will never stop posting until I want too.  I read all your predictions and you have been so off.  Just a Blues hater, that's all.  Don;t like playing kickball and you know it all.  Nothing you say is true dude.


----------



## Ellejustus

ECNL SW is on fire and I want Beach & Legends top teams added this year.  I'm allowed to say that.  Plus, I want to travel to Vegas, AZ and NorCal.  I sometimes add a personal story to my takes to make it more real.  I like real.  I hate fakes, cheats and liars.  I'm the type of dude that if you beat me fair and square, I give you a fist pump and say, "congratulations and you win."  I don;t go take over a club so I can make money and make sure my kid plays all the time. How could one get mad at me for that and tell me to stop posting up on you and others who have a different view point.  Ignore me Guru and don;t respond to my rants or me talking and talking about myself.  When you see my post, skip over it.  I won;t stop just because you say so, that's for sure.  Carry on with your takes.  I'm hoping we can play soccer soon.  What club are you at again?


----------



## Ellejustus

timbuck said:


> Quick comment on HS soccer.
> *How often do you see kids wearing a club t-shirt/jacket* when not at a club game or practice?  Not very often is my observation.
> 
> I see girls from the local high schools wearing a high school soccer t-shirt/sweatshirt/jacket ALL the time.  (My kid has been living in hers lately).
> 
> It doesn't mean the soccer is that great.  But I think it's important to recognize that our kids are pretty proud to play for their HS.


Never from my few times on campus but then again, it's just watching volleyball and soccer matches and a track  meet and one football game. I can't ever recall seeing someone walking  around with their volleyball club sweat shirt on or soccer club jacket.  It's usually, "Go Beach Soccer" or "Go Breakers" or I usually say just for the fun of it, "go Artists."  I even have a a cool sweat shirt I wear around town.  Our community supports all their HS teams, win or lose but they really like it when you win for the city.  Not easy though


----------



## Ellejustus

*SA: Anything else you want to add or address?

TEDDY CHRONOPOULOS*: "*Just that it’s really not an either or proposition in terms of MLS or ECNL as both MLS and non-MLS clubs can and should be working together as we move forward.* As an example, in a city the size of Los Angeles, or even a region as big as say Missouri and Kansas where there is only one MLS club but multiple ECNL clubs, there are hundreds of prospective top-level players. Giving all of those players an opportunity to play, compete, improve, travel less and develop can happen in any top level environment. And sometimes, that “best environment” for a player is at a non-MLS club. If, over time, those players playing in a non-MLS academy show something unique, and the MLS and local ECNL clubs have nurtured their relationship, then conversations can take place over what is best for that player and how to move forward. The goal really has to be communication. As I said above, we have a good relationship with MLS clubs so we are excited about the future and what it might look like."

If SA ever asked me if i want to address anything else I would just say that my poor little rocket girl was forced with an Either Or proposition the last two and half years and that was wrong and unfair, even if it's free.   Anyway, I wish all the leagues will open soon so the girls and boys can play soccer.


----------



## dreamz

vegasguy said:


> Seems Like ECNL / ECRL is playing a different chess match than the GA right now.


This is a very one-sided chess match if that’s what you are comparing it to. ECNL/RL has the cream of the crop (with a few”ah damn we should have never taken that club”) thrown in the mix. GA (which isn’t really an academy program just a word they stole from US Soccer) are the shit clubs that can’t get in to ECNL/RL with leadership still trying to control their own league selling it as an academy league with some wonky, misdirected pathway to college. There is no comparison.


----------



## dad4

dreamz said:


> This is a very one-sided chess match if that’s what you are comparing it to. ECNL/RL has the cream of the crop (with a few”ah damn we should have never taken that club”) thrown in the mix. GA (which isn’t really an academy program just a word they stole from US Soccer) are the shit clubs that can’t get in to ECNL/RL with leadership still trying to control their own league selling it as an academy league with some wonky, misdirected pathway to college. There is no comparison.


Any time one group calls another a “shit club”, the bias is out there front and center.   

We all know that the main criteria for ECNL is simple.   ECNL clubs want to restrict admission because they want less competition.  They are willing to admit a few clubs if that’s what it takes to kill bigger competiton, like DA or GA.  

If it were about “shit clubs”, it would be based on win/loss, and called pro/rel.


----------



## vegasguy

dreamz said:


> This is a very one-sided chess match if that’s what you are comparing it to. ECNL/RL has the cream of the crop (with a few”ah damn we should have never taken that club”) thrown in the mix. GA (which isn’t really an academy program just a word they stole from US Soccer) are the shit clubs that can’t get in to ECNL/RL with leadership still trying to control their own league selling it as an academy league with some wonky, misdirected pathway to college. There is no comparison.


there are still great players in both leagues that might not move one way or the other and check-mate may never be obtained.


----------



## dreamz

dad4 said:


> Any time one group calls another a “shit club”, the bias is out there front and center.
> 
> We all know that the main criteria for ECNL is simple.   ECNL clubs want to restrict admission because they want less competition.  They are willing to admit a few clubs if that’s what it takes to kill bigger competiton, like DA or GA.
> 
> If it were about “shit clubs”, it would be based on win/loss, and called pro/rel.


I withdraw the comment about ”shit clubs“ and apologize for that. I should say less competitive clubs. I think it’s pretty easy to ID who the top clubs are and who the bottom dwellers are. No bias is needed there. On results and reputation alone, nationally, it’s fairly clear.

I also don’t think ECNL killed DA. US Soccer killed DA and GA is not “bigger competition“ than ECNL. Far from it.


----------



## Copa9

Esteban said:


> Just think about how huge this country is (size and population) and the GA has less than 60 teams spread across the entire country.  I think the DA tried to do the same thing with about 65 teams, but they were going to lose a few back to ECNL this year if they had not disbanded.
> 
> The ECNL, on the other hand, now has about 120 clubs between ECNL/ECRL spread out over about the same area.  That's not great, but it's _twice_ as good as the DA last year and the GA this year.  I grew up in Texas and the travel in that GA region is incomprehensible to me and, to make matters worse, the GA/DPL teams probably WON'T be using buses this season for their long trips.  The families will travel alone most likely to those away games and most of them are in other states.  It's just too much, in my opinion, for the GA.  The DA was able to convince clubs to do it for a couple of years, but maybe their small number of teams helped them decide to disband the DA given all of the travel issues going forward.  That can all change with a vaccine, of course, but we have no vaccine for SARS and MERS so it could it could be a while before we get one for Covid.
> 
> Another issue for the GA is it just looks bad that many of their top clubs are eager to accept an ECRL-only invitation from the ECNL for this upcoming season.  If they were truly "all in" on the GA concept, then you'd expect them to turn down the ECRL and just move forward with GA and DPL teams.
> 
> Everyone can understand FC Dallas dumping the GA a week after it was announced to return to full ECNL membership, but teams like Legends, Beach, etc. only received ECRL invites.  In addition, the ECRL/GA teams like Beach told the GA their top teams would only do the GA, but I sincerely doubt that will be the case.


 The new teams that were DA and are now ECNL will dominate in almost all age groups.


----------



## dreamz

Ellejustus said:


> *SA: Anything else you want to add or address?
> 
> TEDDY CHRONOPOULOS*: "*Just that it’s really not an either or proposition in terms of MLS or ECNL as both MLS and non-MLS clubs can and should be working together as we move forward.* As an example, in a city the size of Los Angeles, or even a region as big as say Missouri and Kansas where there is only one MLS club but multiple ECNL clubs, there are hundreds of prospective top-level players. Giving all of those players an opportunity to play, compete, improve, travel less and develop can happen in any top level environment. And sometimes, that “best environment” for a player is at a non-MLS club. If, over time, those players playing in a non-MLS academy show something unique, and the MLS and local ECNL clubs have nurtured their relationship, then conversations can take place over what is best for that player and how to move forward. The goal really has to be communication. As I said above, we have a good relationship with MLS clubs so we are excited about the future and what it might look like."
> 
> If SA ever asked me if i want to address anything else I would just say that my poor little rocket girl was forced with an Either Or proposition the last two and half years and that was wrong and unfair, even if it's free.   Anyway, I wish all the leagues will open soon so the girls and boys can play soccer.


Teddy is A well respected and knowledgeable director.
SA is a rag gossip column run by a self-promoting non-soccer person.
Teddy is never going to say anything bad about ECNL or MLS. He’s with Pateadores and their girls program got accepted in to ECRL trying to win their way in to ECNL and their boys didn’t get into ECNL so the MLS league was their only option. However I would argue the statement about having a good relationship with the MLS clubs. No one in socal likes the MLS clubs because they cherry pick their players constantly. 
We will see what happens but you are right about one thing - let’s get the kids out playing again!


----------



## dreamz

Copa9 said:


> The new teams that were DA and are now ECNL will dominate in almost all age groups.


Well they were pretty much dominating in ECNL before they left for DA right? So it would make sense that those clubs coming back to ECNL just pick up where they left off. Slammers will have some competition in SoCal now in the ECNL but it’s the same clubs returning to their ole’ stomping grounds to continue stomping. It’s clubs like Sharks, LA Breakers and Chula Vista shitting themselves now over who they have to play and what those score lines will possibly look like. Yikes.


----------



## futboldad1

dreamz said:


> Well they were pretty much dominating in ECNL before they left for DA right? So it would make sense that those clubs coming back to ECNL just pick up where they left off. Slammers will have some competition in SoCal now in the ECNL but it’s the same clubs returning to their ole’ stomping grounds to continue stomping. It’s clubs like Sharks, LA Breakers and Chula Vista shitting themselves now over who they have to play and what those score lines will possibly look like. Yikes.


@dreamz  it's best to go off of facts not your or others opinions.....I heard some people say why did Real get back in, well we deserve it..... clubs like LA Surf and OC did not...... similarly with ECNL, you are riding Rebels but first year in ECNL and they are doing better than Arsenal so it is better to use stats not your bias...... do Beach and Legends derserve a shot, sure..... and maybe they get it next year



GDA AND ECNL 2020 Standings Per Club by PPGGDA Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU14U15U16U17U18/U19San Diego Surf2.421441Legends417525LA Galaxy536178Real So Cal5.2482102Beach Futbol Club6.6132639SC Blues6.6649113Albion SC7.25510511LA Galaxy San Diego8.210133114Pateadores9.21212787SC del Sol9.211312614LA Surf SC9.49911126Utah Royals FC - Arizona9.814118133OC Surf Soccer10.671413910Albion SC Las Vegas11.6810141412ECNL Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU13U14U15U16U17U18U18 CompLAFC Slammers2.42111228So Cal Blues SC3.73684311Slammers FC4.663103163LA Breakers FC6.35868494Heat FC6.3144710117Strikers FC6.6117357310Arizona Arsenal SC7.1911126642Phoenix Rising FC7.379221212No teamRebels SC7.6821110589Eagles SC7.64105121156Arsenal FC8.9125999711DMCV Sharks9.010127118105


----------



## Ellejustus

Copa9 said:


> The new teams that were DA and are now ECNL will dominate in almost all age groups.


Lets go with the SW ECNL 04' group @Copa9 .  I'm curious to hear from you who the top #1-#5 04' teams will be and what you mean by "dominate?" I like Surf, Blues, LAFC, Real SC and AZ Rising in that particular order but I don't see any of them dominating at all.  Also Copa, keep in mind the ECNL teams not in the GDA last year have picked up some nice players from the former GDA teams and will have something to stand up for like my dd team.  I think we have 5 really good teams and then the rest of us will be good and maybe great by the end of the season.  Watch out for the Heat.  I hear the rumor mill is going crazy out there.


----------



## soccerfan123

Ellejustus said:


> Lets go with the SW ECNL 04' group @Copa9 .  I'm curious to hear from you who the top #1-#5 04' teams will be and what you mean by "dominate?" I like Surf, Blues, LAFC, Real SC and AZ Rising in that particular order but I don't any of them dominating at all.  Also Copa, keep in mind the ECNL teams not in the GDA last year have picked up some nice players from the former GDA teams and will have something to stand up for like my dd team.  I think we have 5 really good teams and then the rest of us will be good and maybe great by the end of the season.  Watch out for the Heat.  I hear the rumor mill is going crazy out there.


Jus ignore the troll bro, he's just angry at Ecnl so will do anything to try and put it down. his predictions and thoughts are worthless. but no shit Surf will do damage wherever they play, that club is stacked


----------



## soccerfan123

futboldad1 said:


> @dreamz  it's best to go off of facts not your or others opinions.....I heard some people say why did Real get back in, well we deserve it..... clubs like LA Surf and OC did not...... similarly with ECNL, you are riding Rebels but first year in ECNL and they are doing better than Arsenal so it is better to use stats not your bias...... do Beach and Legends derserve a shot, sure..... and maybe they get it next year
> 
> 
> 
> GDA AND ECNL 2020 Standings Per Club by PPGGDA Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU14U15U16U17U18/U19San Diego Surf2.421441Legends417525LA Galaxy536178Real So Cal5.2482102Beach Futbol Club6.6132639SC Blues6.6649113Albion SC7.25510511LA Galaxy San Diego8.210133114Pateadores9.21212787SC del Sol9.211312614LA Surf SC9.49911126Utah Royals FC - Arizona9.814118133OC Surf Soccer10.671413910Albion SC Las Vegas11.6810141412ECNL Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU13U14U15U16U17U18U18 CompLAFC Slammers2.42111228So Cal Blues SC3.73684311Slammers FC4.663103163LA Breakers FC6.35868494Heat FC6.3144710117Strikers FC6.6117357310Arizona Arsenal SC7.1911126642Phoenix Rising FC7.379221212No teamRebels SC7.6821110589Eagles SC7.64105121156Arsenal FC8.9125999711DMCV Sharks9.010127118105


So Sharks and Arsenal would be relegated if the relegation rule is adopted by the ECNL, Eagles and Rebels put on notice or at risk too. Interesting.

From the DevAc it looks like there is only Legends followed a few spots behind by Beach that have a strong case to be included. All the other clubs in the top half of the table are already now in the ECNL (Surf Blues Real) or shutdown (Galaxy Southbay). Bottom half of DevAc seemed to really struggle


----------



## dreamz

futboldad1 said:


> @dreamz  it's best to go off of facts not your or others opinions.....I heard some people say why did Real get back in, well we deserve it..... clubs like LA Surf and OC did not...... similarly with ECNL, you are riding Rebels but first year in ECNL and they are doing better than Arsenal so it is better to use stats not your bias...... do Beach and Legends derserve a shot, sure..... and maybe they get it next year
> 
> 
> 
> GDA AND ECNL 2020 Standings Per Club by PPGGDA Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU14U15U16U17U18/U19San Diego Surf2.421441Legends417525LA Galaxy536178Real So Cal5.2482102Beach Futbol Club6.6132639SC Blues6.6649113Albion SC7.25510511LA Galaxy San Diego8.210133114Pateadores9.21212787SC del Sol9.211312614LA Surf SC9.49911126Utah Royals FC - Arizona9.814118133OC Surf Soccer10.671413910Albion SC Las Vegas11.6810141412ECNL Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU13U14U15U16U17U18U18 CompLAFC Slammers2.42111228So Cal Blues SC3.73684311Slammers FC4.663103163LA Breakers FC6.35868494Heat FC6.3144710117Strikers FC6.6117357310Arizona Arsenal SC7.1911126642Phoenix Rising FC7.379221212No teamRebels SC7.6821110589Eagles SC7.64105121156Arsenal FC8.9125999711DMCV Sharks9.010127118105


Futboldad, first off I said pretty much, not totally.
Second, I was talking about the clubs that left ECNL for DA and came back to ECNL. That doesn’t include Rebels, LA Surf, Arsenal or Sharks. 
Arsenal has been in ECNL since Day 1. They have been loyal and have won a lot in ECNL (maybe not recently but historically). Legends and beach absolutely deserve to be in ECNL but they’ll have to qualify their way in through ECRL. Good or bad, ECNL isn’t going to kick out bottom dwellers to make room for the better clubs like Beach and Legends although it would be best for the competition. 
LAG is gone so cross them off the list. 
Real gets in because of their history and producing quality teams. 
So there is no bias here. Just look at the history of the GDA teams that left ECNL and how they did in ECNL. The bottom of ECNL and the bottom of GDA are filler games for the conference and why clubs like OC Surf didn’t get back in to to ECNL.


----------



## vegasguy

Copa9 said:


> The new teams that were DA and are now ECNL will dominate in almost all age groups.


Based on what??? movement in clubs.. tryouts.. because the team last year is not the same team this year... with all of what is going on the condensed training and fitness the former DA clubs will do over their ECNL equals?   What is your proof broad nationwide  not just socal there chief.


----------



## futboldad1

dreamz said:


> Futboldad, first off I said pretty much, not totally.
> Second, I was talking about the clubs that left ECNL for DA and came back to ECNL. That doesn’t include Rebels, LA Surf, Arsenal or Sharks.
> Arsenal has been in ECNL since Day 1. They have been loyal and have won a lot in ECNL (maybe not recently but historically). Legends and beach absolutely deserve to be in ECNL but they’ll have to qualify their way in through ECRL. Good or bad, ECNL isn’t going to kick out bottom dwellers to make room for the better clubs like Beach and Legends although it would be best for the competition.
> LAG is gone so cross them off the list.
> Real gets in because of their history and producing quality teams.
> So there is no bias here. Just look at the history of the GDA teams that left ECNL and how they did in ECNL. The bottom of ECNL and the bottom of GDA are filler games for the conference and why clubs like OC Surf didn’t get back in to to ECNL.


I would politely suggest you be more clear in your postings if that is what you meant..... as what you did was rip on Rebels when there are 3 ECNL clubs (Sharks, Arsenal and Eagles) ranked below or equal to them.... this would indicate a bias.....Arsenal ECNL being "historically" good has the same relevance to the conversation that Kaiserslautern in Germany were Bundelsliga champions..... now Kaiserslautern play in the third tier so history only gets you so far and if you can't take advantage of it then there can be consequences.....if Arsenal had won something or even competed club wide last year and underperformed only this year it would have more relevance..... but I agree that precedence says they will not be relegated...... I do not want to argue, but it is undeniably important to go from statistics on clubs and teams rather than people's perceptions....... full disclosure is I have family friends at Rebels so stay unbiased by looking only at the raw numbers....... hope this makes sense as I do not disagree with everything you wrote (I agree the bottom 1/3 or maybe 1/2 of each table is not especially "elite"...... but do have issue with some parts of what you've been saying that I hope I have adequately explained...... I just pray we get a full 20--21 season and have both a new data set and most important a fantastic year of ECNL soccer and experiences for all of our DDs involved


----------



## megnation

dreamz said:


> ... and their boys didn’t get into ECNL so the MLS league was their only option.


Pats boys are in ECNL - joined mid-April


----------



## Ellejustus

futboldad1 said:


> I would politely suggest you be more clear in your postings if that is what you meant..... as what you did was rip on Rebels when there are 3 ECNL clubs (Sharks, Arsenal and Eagles) ranked below or equal to them.... this would indicate a bias.....Arsenal ECNL being "historically" good has the same relevance to the conversation that Kaiserslautern in Germany were Bundelsliga champions..... now Kaiserslautern play in the third tier so history only gets you so far and if you can't take advantage of it then there can be consequences.....if Arsenal had won something or even competed club wide last year and underperformed only this year it would have more relevance..... but I agree that precedence says they will not be relegated...... I do not want to argue, but it is undeniably important to go from statistics on clubs and teams rather than people's perceptions....... full disclosure is I have family friends at Rebels so stay unbiased by looking only at the raw numbers....... hope this makes sense as I do not disagree with everything you wrote (I agree the bottom 1/3 or maybe 1/2 of each table is not especially "elite"...... but do have issue with some parts of what you've been saying that I hope I have adequately explained...... I just pray we get a full 20--21 season and have both a new data set and most important a fantastic year of ECNL soccer and experiences for all of our DDs involved


Dad who loves futbol, my only issue I have with all the data ((thanks btw, except to say I think Strikers 04 team is really #3, not #5.  .07 and something is really a tie for 3rd place in my book and the last game against AZ Arsenal team was not supposed to happen.  What place would we be in if we did beat AZ Arsenal?))  The other only issue I have with all these teams is they will all be new teams with new players on them and some girls who quit or just dont want to travel.  SW ECNL is going to be a blast and I can;t wait for it to all begin.  Thanks for putting all this data together brother


----------



## futboldad1

Ellejustus said:


> Dad who loves futbol, my only issue I have with all the data ((thanks btw, except to say I think Strikers 04 team is really #3, not #5.  .07 and something is really a tie for 3rd place in my book and the last game against AZ Arsenal team was not supposed to happen.  What place would we be in if we did beat AZ Arsenal?))  The other only issue I have with all these teams is they will all be new teams with new players on them and some girls who quit or just dont want to travel.  SW ECNL is going to be a blast and I can;t wait for it to all begin.  Thanks for putting all this data together brother


I hear you my friend but a game is a game and every team has circumstances that affect them.... illness, injury, conflicts..... so a result is a result you know that as a competitor.....  but 20--21 is soon upon us so your amazing DD and her great team will get to dominate ON THE FIELD at U17.... and I will crunch the new numbers off of it lol....with some help from sdb 

and thank you for the props....


----------



## Ellejustus

futboldad1 said:


> I hear you my friend but a game is a game and every team has circumstances that affect them.... illness, injury, conflicts..... so a result is a result you know that as a competitor.....  but 20--21 is soon upon us so your amazing DD and her great team will get to dominate ON THE FIELD at U17.... and I will crunch the new numbers off of it lol....with some help from sdb
> 
> and thank you for the props....


Dang, a true competitor you are and you're 100% correct.  i told my dd before that AZ game at home during Thanksgiving vacation that is a was a trap game.  We did have a travel day up to LA to take on the Breakers.  That AZ team was lights out and caught us all on vacation. I hear they picked up quite a haul for next 2020-2021 seasn.  I like that Rising team too.  Don;t sleep on AZ Socal or Vegas for that matter.  MLVA is #1 for sure in the 04 age.  Just make the Champions playoffs next year is my personal hope.  I also said we wouldn't for the 2nd tier playoffs and that was not me being a good team parent.  I take that back.  That was just my pride bro.  Good luck to the kiddos bro


----------



## Surf Zombie

ECNL
					

To view videos in the presentation please CLICK HERE.




					www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com
				




North East split into two conferences, win for me!


----------



## zags77

Surf Cup moved back to August....dates posted









						Surf Cup - Surf Cup Sports
					

The San Diego Surf Cup continues to be the premier summer tournament for youth soccer, featuring the top teams in the nation and drawing the attention of thousands of spectators while attracting more than 500 college coaches and scouts.




					surfcupsports.com


----------



## GTS

Ellejustus said:


> Dang, a true competitor you are and you're 100% correct.  i told my dd before that AZ game at home during Thanksgiving vacation that is a was a trap game.  We did have a travel day up to LA to take on the Breakers.  That AZ team was lights out and caught us all on vacation. I hear they picked up quite a haul for next 2020-2021 seasn.  I like that Rising team too.  Don;t sleep on AZ Socal or Vegas for that matter.  MLVA is #1 for sure in the 04 age.  Just make the Champions playoffs next year is my personal hope.  I also said we wouldn't for the 2nd tier playoffs and that was not me being a good team parent.  I take that back.  That was just my pride bro.  Good luck to the kiddos bro


I know Blues 04 has picked up some NTP and basically a new team; watch out MVLA.


----------



## Kicker4Life

GTS said:


> I know Blues 04 has picked up some NTP and basically a new team; watch out MVLA.


Yah, TP put a solid team together.  Legends lost some key players (one is the NTP you mentioned) and seems to have been one of the “biggest losers” in the DA fallout.  ZK at Slammers also picked up some solid players in the transition.  

please let this season start sooner than later.


----------



## shales1002

GTS said:


> I know Blues 04 has picked up some NTP and basically a new team; watch out MVLA.


MVLA should/maybe picking up some Earthquakes players. That’s a very well coached team.


----------



## Ellejustus

GTS said:


> I know Blues 04 has picked up some NTP and basically a new team; watch out MVLA.


Yes, without talking about who's who and who picked up NTPs, lot's of top players on the move.  I won;t share because it's none of my business.  ECNL is now looking for next years 2020-2021 teams.   U17 is the place to be.  My dd is super grateful to have at least one year of club soccer ((I'm staying positive folks, got's too)).  For the 04' U17 age group, Blues is now my new #1.  They have a VERY VERY good team.  LAFC #2 with their new additions and Slammers is now #3 with their new additions.  MLVA is #4. The rest, I have no idea.  However, if the top player(s) from Real SoCal play U17, that will be one hell of a team too. Plus Heat.  My God, this is going to be very difficult but fun.  Under dogs have a say in all this too.  I forgot about all the top teams in Texas.  Who truly is #1 in Texas? Plus CO has a stud team at Real CO.  Oh, and all the AZ teams too.........Party time!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

shales1002 said:


> MVLA should/maybe picking up some Earthquakes players. That’s a very well coached team.


If that rumor mill is true and I dont doubt you one bit Shales, then I will move MLVA back to #1.  I need proof first.  *SW ECNL U17 2020-2021!!!!*


----------



## 310soccer

shales1002 said:


> MVLA should/maybe picking up some Earthquakes players. That’s a very well coached team.


 I'm hearing there has been no movement with MLVA players. MVLA I hear is very loyal to there players and displacing current players would probably disrupt that 04 team.  I actually disagree with my friends opinion on this one. If you have solid players wanting to come over its only going to make your club and teams better.


----------



## Ellejustus

310soccer said:


> I'm hearing there has been no movement with MLVA players. MVLA I hear is very loyal to there players and displacing current players would probably disrupt that 04 team.  I actually disagree with my friends opinion on this one. If you have solid players wanting to come over its only going to make your club and teams better.


After all my years in club and this next season being our last one, if a team has been loyal all these years and their already a great team, I would maybe take the best one or two from EQ and that's it.  You should be cutting 20% every year some say anyway and if you can pick EQs top players that is a win for everyone.  The old ECNL SW league is no more and new has come.  Every club has and will improve in the SW League and competition will be fierce.  Also, teams that have now have a new all star roster doesnt always equal wins.  Chemistry plays a slight roll in championships.  Good luck to all the teams and may the best team win it all.


----------



## youthsportsugh

310soccer said:


> I'm hearing there has been no movement with MLVA players. MVLA I hear is very loyal to there players and displacing current players would probably disrupt that 04 team.  I actually disagree with my friends opinion on this one. If you have solid players wanting to come over its only going to make your club and teams better.


MVLA has added a player here and there over the years and if a couple of top notch former quakes become available I am sure they wouldn't turn them down. That Quakes team could lead to a lot of dominoes falling at different clubs.


----------



## GTS

Kicker4Life said:


> Yah, TP put a solid team together.  Legends lost some key players (one is the NTP you mentioned) and seems to have been one of the “biggest losers” in the DA fallout.  ZK at Slammers also picked up some solid players in the transition.
> 
> please let this season start sooner than later.


Yes, I know about Legend NTP, also NTP from WestCoast, and LA Galaxy.


----------



## GTS

youthsportsugh said:


> MVLA has added a player here and there over the years and if a couple of top notch former quakes become available I am sure they wouldn't turn them down. That Quakes team could lead to a lot of dominoes falling at different clubs.


The 04 Quake team was almost completely made up of NTP, very hard to beat.

I think if a player had Interest to join MVLA, it would be a no brainier for the coach to displace a current player.


----------



## Lionel Hutz

GTS said:


> I know Blues 04 has picked up some NTP and basically a new team; watch out MVLA.


Is the new 04 Blues ECNL team essentially their DA team or is a mix of the DA and ECNL teams?


----------



## wc_baller

GTS said:


> The 04 Quake team was almost completely made up of NTP, very hard to beat.
> 
> I think if a player had Interest to join MVLA, it would be a no brainier for the coach to displace a current player.


Before the GDA was created, the 04 Quakes teams was the DeAnza Force 04 team. Both rosters have remained mostly the same from then until now, with very few changes. Back when they played each other, the MVLA team beat that team repeatedly and consistently. I just took a look at the current MVLA roster, and 16 of the girls remain from years ago when they never lost an important competition to the players on the current Quakes team. Having NTP on a resume looks great, but that isn't going to automatically get you a spot and knock of a player who's consistently outperformed you on an even playing field.


----------



## Ellejustus

Lionel Hutz said:


> Is the new 04 Blues ECNL team essentially their DA team or is a mix of the DA and ECNL teams?


A little bit of both and sprinkled with YNT players from other clubs I wont name.  This will be the #1 team in the country hands down at the U17.


----------



## GTS

wc_baller said:


> Before the GDA was created, the 04 Quakes teams was the DeAnza Force 04 team. Both rosters have remained mostly the same from then until now, with very few changes. Back when they played each other, the MVLA team beat that team repeatedly and consistently. I just took a look at the current MVLA roster, and 16 of the girls remain from years ago when they never lost an important competition to the players on the current Quakes team. Having NTP on a resume looks great, but that isn't going to automatically get you a spot and knock of a player who's consistently outperformed you on an even playing field.


Yes, your partially correct.

Being a NTP looks good on paper, I would think that player would shine during tryout.  Then again it all depends on what the coach is looking for.


----------



## Anon9

GTS said:


> Yes, your partially correct.
> 
> Being a NTP looks good on paper, I would think that player would shine during tryout.  Then again it all depends on what the coach is looking for.


NTP means nothing when they were only looking at DA clubs and ignoring ECNL clubs, with very few exceptions. Going forward, it will matter now that the DA is done.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Anon9 said:


> NTP means nothing when they were only looking at DA clubs and ignoring ECNL clubs, with very few exceptions. Going forward, it will matter now that the DA is done.


1/3 of the players at the March U15 YNT camp were not from DA.


----------



## Anon9

Soccerfan2 said:


> 1/3 of the players at the March U15 YNT camp were not from DA.





Soccerfan2 said:


> 1/3 of the players at the March U15 YNT camp were not from DA.





Soccerfan2 said:


> 1/3 of the players at the March U15 YNT camp were not from DA.


There’s no question ECNL was being discriminated. 1 YNT event had 6 Earthquakes girls and 0 MVLA girls. 
Now with a level playing field, the call-ups will have much more validity. And, not doubting that most of those girls deserved it and will be called back.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Anon9 said:


> There’s no question ECNL was being discriminated. 1 YNT event had 6 Earthquakes girls and 0 MVLA girls.
> Now with a level playing field, the call-ups will have much more validity. And, not doubting that most of those girls deserved it and will be called back.


There were ECNL players in England in Feb.


----------



## wc_baller

Kicker4Life said:


> There were ECNL players in England in Feb.


There were 4 ECNL players and 16 DA players in England. That seems to prove @Anon9's point. The year before, the NT for that age group had 1 ECNL player and the rest were DA.


----------



## EOTL

Anon9 said:


> There’s no question ECNL was being discriminated. 1 YNT event had 6 Earthquakes girls and 0 MVLA girls.
> Now with a level playing field, the call-ups will have much more validity. And, not doubting that most of those girls deserved it and will be called back.


Doubting whether Quakes girls deserved it is exactly what you are doing. In one sentence, you’re claiming it was “discriminatory” that Quakes had 6 and MVLA none, and the next you’re claiming that you’re not doubting they deserved it.


----------



## youthsportsugh

Kicker4Life said:


> There were ECNL players in England in Feb.


There were, but 16 of the 20 were from the DA (I think).  It had definitely skewed toward DA clubs in the last couple of years.  Out of the 60 girls at the January U14, 50 of them were DA.  You also saw a lot of the same clubs over and over.


----------



## youthsportsugh

EOTL said:


> Doubting whether Quakes girls deserved it is exactly what you are doing. In one sentence, you’re claiming it was “discriminatory” that Quakes had 6 and MVLA none, and the next you’re claiming that you’re not doubting they deserved it.


You can do both by using arguably the top 2 teams in their respective leagues.  To have 6 girls from the top DA team and 0 from the top ECNL team (which before the DA split hadn't really lost to that DA team) would show some discrimination. Then you can follow that up with the I am sure those 6 girls are excellent and will probably be called back.  Not sure if that is what was meant, but the 2 are not mutually exclusive.


----------



## Kicker4Life

wc_baller said:


> There were 4 ECNL players and 16 DA players in England. That seems to prove @Anon9's point. The year before, the NT for that age group had 1 ECNL player and the rest were DA.





youthsportsugh said:


> There were, but 16 of the 20 were from the DA (I think).  It had definitely skewed toward DA clubs in the last couple of years.  Out of the 60 girls at the January U14, 50 of them were DA.  You also saw a lot of the same clubs over and over.


I think it is also important to look back to the 2018 CONCACAF tournament roster and see how many were returning by league.  By my rudimentary count:

ECNL
1 returning
3 new

DA (important to note that many of the girls played for Clubs that at the time had DA and ECNL, these players went DA)
10 returning
  6 new

Definitely not even numbers but a lot to take into consideration when you are looking at positional needs, etc. when selecting teams. I don’t have a count on how many ECNL girls were called into the Florida camp in January, but I don’t think it deviates from the numbers above by much of anything.


----------



## EOTL

youthsportsugh said:


> You can do both by using arguably the top 2 teams in their respective leagues.  To have 6 girls from the top DA team and 0 from the top ECNL team (which before the DA split hadn't really lost to that DA team) would show some discrimination. Then you can follow that up with the I am sure those 6 girls are excellent and will probably be called back.  Not sure if that is what was meant, but the 2 are not mutually exclusive.


Oh lord. Stop rationalizing. Claiming that 6 Quakes girls and 0 MVLA is “discriminatory”, and that “most”, but not all, of the Quakes girls should get called back by it’s very nature means that the guy doubts that Quakes girls deserved it.


----------



## wc_baller

Kicker4Life said:


> I think it is also important to look back to the 2018 CONCACAF tournament roster and see how many were returning by league.  By my rudimentary count:
> 
> ECNL
> 1 returning
> 3 new
> 
> DA (important to note that many of the girls played for Clubs that at the time had DA and ECNL, these players went DA)
> 10 returning
> 6 new
> 
> Definitely not even numbers but a lot to take into consideration when you are looking at positional needs, etc. when selecting teams. I don’t have a count on how many ECNL girls were called into the Florida camp in January, but I don’t think it deviates from the numbers above by much of anything.


When you look at the roster for the Florida camp, the DA bias looks even worse. 4 ECNL players and 24 DA players. Every single ECNL player from the Florida camp made the final roster for England.


----------



## dad4

EOTL said:


> Oh lord. Stop rationalizing. Claiming that 6 Quakes girls and 0 MVLA is “discriminatory”, and that “most”, but not all, of the Quakes girls should get called back by it’s very nature means that the guy doubts that Quakes girls deserved it.


The YNT was essentially a DA all star team with a few ringers from ECNL.

Of course, making the DA all star team is one heck of an accomplishment.  Those girls have every right to be proud.

But it is not a basis for DA/ECNL comparisons.  Not that we need those anyway.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> I think it is also important to look back to the 2018 CONCACAF tournament roster and see how many were returning by league.  By my rudimentary count:
> 
> ECNL
> 1 returning
> 3 new
> 
> DA (important to note that many of the girls played for Clubs that at the time had DA and ECNL, these players went DA)
> 10 returning
> 6 new
> 
> Definitely not even numbers but a lot to take into consideration when you are looking at positional needs, etc. when selecting teams. I don’t have a count on how many ECNL girls were called into the Florida camp in January, but I don’t think it deviates from the numbers above by much of anything.


No comment......lol!!!!  Bro, let it go......it's all over and it's time to look ahead to the future.  Timing is everything on this planet and being at the right club at the right time made all the difference for many players.  I'm happy for all who made The Lists over the last three years or so.  It's a great accomplishment.  Now, no more list for anyone with little U14 players whose parents are sold the chance to be on the U14 National team.  That was not a fair process and frankly, was stupid to pitch that to us parents.  The docs used it as way to manipulate families and boy, some of them did.  It a business Kicker and we were in the middle of the market share war.  Many clubs used the YNT carrot as way to entice players to their clubs from other clubs who were not invited to the GDA party.  I watch one top goat after another leave their current club to go to GDA and The List.  Now, some are going to ECNL and the exposure for what this has always been about.  Access to college bro.  Make the list, better access.


----------



## Ellejustus

wc_baller said:


> When you look at the roster for the Florida camp, the DA bias looks even worse. 4 ECNL players and 24 DA players. Every single ECNL player from the Florida camp made the final roster for England.


and then they tried to get some of the ECNL players over to GDA.  That is fact.  "Sally, you need to be over here where true world class development is taking place."  Hog wash!!!


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> No comment......lol!!!!  Bro, let it go......it's all over and it's time to look ahead to the future.  Timing is everything on this planet and being at the right club at the right time made all the difference for many players.  I'm happy for all who made The Lists over the last three years or so.  It's a great accomplishment.  Now, no more list for anyone with little U14 players whose parents are sold the chance to be on the U14 National team.  That was not a fair process and frankly, was stupid to pitch that to us parents.  The docs used it as way to manipulate families and boy, some of them did.  It a business Kicker and we were in the middle of the market share war.  Many clubs used the YNT carrot as way to entice players to their clubs from other clubs who were not invited to the GDA party.  I watch one top goat after another leave their current club to go to GDA and The List.  Now, some are going to ECNL and the exposure for what this has always been about.  Access to college bro.  Make the list, better access.


I’m not arguing the bias....actually somewhat supporting that it existed.....nothing to let go of.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> I’m not arguing the bias....actually somewhat supporting that it existed.....nothing to let go of.


I appreciate you finally somewhat supporting what I have been screaming about for three years....lol!!!  It was used as a carrot and little girls with dreams got caught in the middle and that was wrong.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> I appreciate you finally somewhat supporting what I have been screaming about for three years....lol!!!  It was used as a carrot and little girls with dreams got caught in the middle and that was wrong.


Never said otherwise, just said your experience wasn’t the same as most.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Never said otherwise, just said your experience wasn’t the same as most.


I was so naive I thought De Anza Force was the only top team in Norcal.....lol!!  That was 2017 and how would I know what the soccer scene in Norcal was all about.  So when I would brag about my dd old team beating those 6 YNT EQ players and their team and UCLA commits, I was sincere.  The MLVA crowd came on here with video proof that they were better than Surf and they beat the Force all the time and they got zero for The List.  It is what it is and I say who really gives a care anymore.  Now I, just like Guru and I will pay for 20 minute halves in Ocenaside just so my dd can play again.  I will stay home too.  I will do just about anything to see my rocket play again.  I dont care about the list and I really never did.  I was just messying around 90% of the time and I saw all this three years ago.  It was clear to me the kind of political game that needed to be played and I dont play that way with sports and I got out. I didn;t like the either or that was forced down her throat.  Some clubs like Crossfire saw it too and they got out.


----------



## Dubs

EOTL said:


> Oh lord. Stop rationalizing. Claiming that 6 Quakes girls and 0 MVLA is “discriminatory”, and that “most”, but not all, of the Quakes girls should get called back by it’s very nature means that the guy doubts that Quakes girls deserved it.


Yes!  Absolutely discriminatory.  USSF minced no words when they stated that they would pretty much only look at the DA players for these call ups.  That was their f-ing pitch and bargaining chip against ECNL.  They left off players from ECNL teams on purpose!  I can't believe this discussion is happening again.  It's not a knock on players that got selected, but it is a complete knock on the selection process being tainted by the dumb ass USSF running the DA.


----------



## EOTL

Dubs said:


> Yes!  Absolutely discriminatory.  USSF minced no words when they stated that they would pretty much only look at the DA players for these call ups.  That was their f-ing pitch and bargaining chip against ECNL.  They left off players from ECNL teams on purpose!  I can't believe this discussion is happening again.  It's not a knock on players that got selected, but it is a complete knock on the selection process being tainted by the dumb ass USSF running the DA.


I’m not questioning that US Soccer favored GDA players overall, just the weak sauce b.s. nonsense about how he’s not “doubting” the quakes players specifically deserved to play on the YNT, when it is clear that is exactly what he is doing. It seems to be a particular gift of NorCal people to rip on kids and refuse to accept responsibility for what they’re doing.


----------



## Dubs

EOTL said:


> I’m not questioning that US Soccer favored GDA players overall, just the weak sauce b.s. nonsense about how he’s not “doubting” the quakes players specifically deserved to play on the YNT, when it is clear that is exactly what he is doing. It seems to be a particular gift of NorCal people to rip on kids and refuse to accept responsibility for what they’re doing.


That is not how I took it and not sure why you are unless you are somehow directly effected by it.   We're talking about two known quantities here (MVLA and Quakes).  It's again not a knock on the kids, but the process isn't fair and as such there were deserving kids that didn't get called up because of this pissing match.  If it was fair, this wouldn't even be up for discussion because no doubt there would be at least 1-2 MVLA kids on the roster.


----------



## EOTL

Dubs said:


> That is not how I took it and not sure why you are unless you are somehow directly effected by it.   We're talking about two known quantities here (MVLA and Quakes).  It's again not a knock on the kids, but the process isn't fair and as such there were deserving kids that didn't get called up because of this pissing match.  If it was fair, this wouldn't even be up for discussion because no doubt there would be at least 1-2 MVLA kids on the roster.


I am also not questioning your lack of reading comprehension.


----------



## Copa9

Dubs said:


> Yes!  Absolutely discriminatory.  USSF minced no words when they stated that they would pretty much only look at the DA players for these call ups.  That was their f-ing pitch and bargaining chip against ECNL.  They left off players from ECNL teams on purpose!  I can't believe this discussion is happening again.  It's not a knock on players that got selected, but it is a complete knock on the selection process being tainted by the dumb ass USSF running the DA.


It's all pretty much politics by coaches, top to bottom. There are probably at least a dozen players across the country who could fill the spot of a YNT player. It's the way it has always been and the way it always will be.


----------



## Dubs

Copa9 said:


> It's all pretty much politics by coaches, top to bottom. There are probably at least a dozen players across the country who could fill the spot of a YNT player. It's the way it has always been and the way it always will be.


I do not disagree.


----------



## Dubs

EOTL said:


> I am also not questioning your lack of reading comprehension.


??


----------



## Anon9

EOTL said:


> Oh lord. Stop rationalizing. Claiming that 6 Quakes girls and 0 MVLA is “discriminatory”, and that “most”, but not all, of the Quakes girls should get called back by it’s very nature means that the guy doubts that Quakes girls deserved it.





EOTL said:


> I’m not questioning that US Soccer favored GDA players overall, just the weak sauce b.s. nonsense about how he’s not “doubting” the quakes players specifically deserved to play on the YNT, when it is clear that is exactly what he is doing. It seems to be a particular gift of NorCal people to rip on kids and refuse to accept responsibility for what they’re doing.


You are full of shit. My point was that there was discrimination, as evidenced by the lopsided number of players being called up to YNT camps, and that it could have easily been 3-3 or 4-2 instead of 6-0. Nobody is bashing the players, I was making a point that the YNT call-ups were based more on which club you played for than merit. Now we have an even playing field, so now these call-ups will be based solely on merit and not which league you play in.


----------



## EOTL

Anon9 said:


> You are full of shit. My point was that there was discrimination, as evidenced by the lopsided number of players being called up to YNT camps, and that it could have easily been 3-3 or 4-2 instead of 6-0. Nobody is bashing the players, I was making a point that the YNT call-ups were based more on which club you played for than merit. Now we have an even playing field, so now these call-ups will be based solely on merit and not which league you play in.


Uh huh. Sure.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Anon9 said:


> You are full of shit. My point was that there was discrimination, as evidenced by the lopsided number of players being called up to YNT camps, and that it could have easily been 3-3 or 4-2 instead of 6-0. Nobody is bashing the players, I was making a point that the YNT call-ups were based more on which club you played for than merit. Now we have an even playing field, so now these call-ups will be based solely on merit and not which league you play in.


U15 was 2 MVLA / 2 Quakes at the last camp.

Despite all kinds of people’s arguments to the contrary, my view is the bias happened when players were equivalent. Two similar players and the decision could go either way? Pick the DA kid.  Now there is no DA so there won’t be that bias. There will still be the factor of how easily visible players are to scouts, and coach and club relationships will still influence decision making. I don’t think the tendency to see clusters of kids from clubs and geographical areas that are known hot spots will change. Most importantly there will always be more capable kids than spots. Why not focus one’s energy on being a clear, unambiguous standout vs looking in haystacks for evidence of possible discrimination?


----------



## shales1002

Soccerfan2 said:


> U15 was 2 MVLA / 2 Quakes at the last camp.
> 
> Despite all kinds of people’s arguments to the contrary, my view is the bias happened when players were equivalent. Two similar players and the decision could go either way? Pick the DA kid.  Now there is no DA so there won’t be that bias. There will still be the factor of how easily visible players are to scouts, and coach and club relationships will still influence decision making. I don’t think the tendency to see clusters of kids from clubs and geographical areas that are known hot spots will change. Most importantly there will always be more capable kids than spots. Why not focus one’s energy on being a clear, unambiguous standout vs looking in haystacks for evidence of possible discrimination?


The bias occurred based on the league SOLELY. It had nothing to do with equity. Hopefully they toss those best if GDA lists. If those players are deserving now that the field seems to be level , then so be it. Honestly , I know too many players that got the “We have to defer to our GDA players because they play in our league.“
As for discrimination, it did occur. Perhaps with the league gone, the best of the best will represent  our country.


----------



## Sandypk

Anon9 said:


> You are full of shit. My point was that there was discrimination, as evidenced by the lopsided number of players being called up to YNT camps, and that it could have easily been 3-3 or 4-2 instead of 6-0. Nobody is bashing the players, I was making a point that the YNT call-ups were based more on which club you played for than merit. Now we have an even playing field, so now these call-ups will be based solely on merit and not which league you play in.


I know many players who went to the YNT (U17 and U16) camps and quite a few of them were noticed when they played on ECNL or SCDSL teams when they were younger, then when the players decided to switch to DA they continued to be called to camp.  So, how many of the YNT players were originally invited while on their old team or ECNL teams.  I don’t think you can count those DA players under your “discrimination“ logic.  Those players were already noticed prior to the DA.


----------



## youthsportsugh

shales1002 said:


> The bias occurred based on the league SOLELY. It had nothing to do with equity. Hopefully they toss those best if GDA lists. If those players are deserving now that the field seems to be level , then so be it. Honestly , I know too many players that got the “We have to defer to our GDA players because they play in our league.“
> As for discrimination, it did occur. Perhaps with the league gone, the best of the best will represent  our country.


It is also difficult at this point for new girls to "break" into the known commodities of players and clubs.  With 9 gazillion girls playing soccer and developing at different rates known clubs and players are easier to draw from.  In NorCal for ODP back when it was something there were 160+ girls trying out and 30-40 get picked after 6 sessions. Catch the coaches eye 1 time during 1 session and boom you advance.  Then each year after that the coaches know who you are and you become more entrenched. Depending on the age group there are known commodities in existence that will be difficult to move out.


----------



## shales1002

youthsportsugh said:


> It is also difficult at this point for new girls to "break" into the known commodities of players and clubs.  With 9 gazillion girls playing soccer and developing at different rates known clubs and players are easier to draw from.  In NorCal for ODP back when it was something there were 160+ girls trying out and 30-40 get picked after 6 sessions. Catch the coaches eye 1 time during 1 session and boom you advance.  Then each year after that the coaches know who you are and you become more entrenched. Depending on the age group there are known commodities in existence that will be difficult to move out.


Because of GDA’s failure, there will be some new additions.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Sandypk said:


> I know many players who went to the YNT (U17 and U16) camps and quite a few of them were noticed when they played on ECNL or SCDSL teams when they were younger, then when the players decided to switch to DA they continued to be called to camp.  So, how many of the YNT players were originally invited while on their old team or ECNL teams.  I don’t think you can count those DA players under your “discrimination“ logic.  Those players were already noticed prior to the DA.


Most of these kids were in NTC together for 4 years, before DA even existed, and were evaluated against each other over and over. The obvious ones got called in, ECNL players included. There are a number of players in the next tier down that are very close to each other and those in DA got preference there. The bias is not as big as people think, and that YNT funnel narrows very quickly.


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccerfan2 said:


> Most of these kids were in NTC together for 4 years, before DA even existed, and w*ere evaluated against each other over and over*. The obvious ones got called in, ECNL players included. There are a number of players in the next tier down that are very close to each other and those in DA got preference there. The bias is not as big as people think, and that YNT funnel narrows very quickly.


DA started when my kid was 14. NTC started when my kid was 12 and she was recruited by the headmaster of the one starting in San Diego 2018, not 4 years ago.  Plus, those training centers were a joke and breading grown to steal players from other non gda clubs.  I wouldn;t go there with me today.  How did one get evaluated?  JH ran one and so did Dr Mark in San Diego.  Please share *how players were truly evaluated *at these centers?  I don;t want to bring up my dd experience with a certain Doc again, ok.  Please, that is BS for sure and no need to bring up the past.  in 2017, Socal had like 7 picks I think.  6 of the 7 were on a non gda club the year before and then found a home at a GDA club.  That means 6 clubs lost 6 NTP all because some Docs had power with the picks.


----------



## dad4

Soccerfan2 said:


> Most of these kids were in NTC together for 4 years, before DA even existed, and were evaluated against each other over and over. The obvious ones got called in, ECNL players included. There are a number of players in the next tier down that are very close to each other and those in DA got preference there. The bias is not as big as people think, and that YNT funnel narrows very quickly.


This boils down to saying “yes, we discriminated, but it was mild discrimination.”

Sorry.  Adults thought it was ok to discriminate against a kid, as a tool in an argument with other adults.  That is not ok.  

And, if those same adults are still on charge, why should I not assume they will continue to play the same games?


----------



## Ellejustus

Sandypk said:


> I know many players who went to the YNT (U17 and U16) camps and quite a few of them were noticed when they played on ECNL or SCDSL teams when they were younger, then when the players decided to switch to DA they continued to be called to camp.  So, how many of the YNT players were originally invited while on their old team or ECNL teams.  I don’t think you can count those DA players under your “discrimination“ logic.  Those players were already noticed prior to the DA.


The players picked in Sept 2017 in socal was legit, minus my kids name....lol.....The league started the next day and the new way was put in place and here we are today.


----------



## Soccerfan2

dad4 said:


> This boils down to saying “yes, we discriminated, but it was mild discrimination.”
> 
> Sorry.  Adults thought it was ok to discriminate against a kid, as a tool in an argument with other adults.  That is not ok.
> 
> And, if those same adults are still on charge, why should I not assume they will continue to play the same games?


You should assume that people, no matter who they are, will have biases. Coaches will listen to input from others they respect and have relationships with. Hiring, ODP selection, YNT selection are all subject to the realities of human nature and to people’s personal motives. At no point have I made any value judgement about any of it. I just shared what I’ve observed.


----------



## soccer4us

EOTL said:


> Doubting whether Quakes girls deserved it is exactly what you are doing. In one sentence, you’re claiming it was “discriminatory” that Quakes had 6 and MVLA none, and the next you’re claiming that you’re not doubting they deserved it.


I know both of those teams VERY well. 

It's a travesty Quakes had 6 and MVLA had 0. Nothing against those Quakes kids, but this was the most obvious bias example I can think of. Some deserved it from both teams and everyone can see that who watches with open eyes


----------



## soccer4us

Soccerfan2 said:


> Most of these kids were in NTC together for 4 years, before DA even existed, and were evaluated against each other over and over. The obvious ones got called in, ECNL players included. There are a number of players in the next tier down that are very close to each other and those in DA got preference there. The bias is not as big as people think, and that YNT funnel narrows very quickly.


Want to guess who ran the Nor Cal NTC for a few years.....I'm sure you all can figure it out haha


----------



## dad4

Soccerfan2 said:


> You should assume that people, no matter who they are, will have biases. Coaches will listen to input from others they respect and have relationships with. Hiring, ODP selection, YNT selection are all subject to the realities of human nature and to people’s personal motives. At no point have I made any value judgement about any of it. I just shared what I’ve observed.


I expect bias about soccer.  A player who can send a great long ball to the corner might get an undeserved pass if the reviewers all want to play possession.  And the direct soccer reviewers might not appreciate a center back’s excellent footwork.

What I am talking about is personal connections.   “My friend is DOC at club X, so I’m going to pick the midfielder from club X”.  

If that is how the system works, why should anyone else bother driving to tryouts?


----------



## Soccerfan2

soccer4us said:


> Want to guess who ran the Nor Cal NTC for a few years.....I'm sure you all can figure it out haha


My observations are not based on the age group you’re referring to.
What I can say is that while DA facilitated a split I think the real factor was a coach that was in a position of influence. That will continue to happen without DA as there will always be people in positions with more influence and they will bring along their people.


----------



## Soccerfan2

dad4 said:


> I expect bias about soccer.  A player who can send a great long ball to the corner might get an undeserved pass if the reviewers all want to play possession.  And the direct soccer reviewers might not appreciate a center back’s excellent footwork.
> 
> What I am talking about is personal connections.   “My friend is DOC at club X, so I’m going to pick the midfielder from club X”.
> 
> If that is how the system works, why should anyone else bother driving to tryouts?


That is life. It happens everywhere. Biased does not mean corrupt. Every coach forming a team has to break the tie between similar players somehow, and inevitably not all people agree on the decision making factors and process. Have you ever coached? Or hired people? Chances are not everyone was happy with you. Humans often go with what they know and trust and are drawn to certain people and not others. Others say different, but I have observed an NTC process that included a large number of players over the years from different leagues and clubs and a YNT pool that has largely given deserving players chances. There are imperfections in any system.


----------



## Ellejustus

soccer4us said:


> Want to guess who ran the Nor Cal NTC for a few years.....I'm sure you all can figure it out haha


I never thought to ask.  Please share.....


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccerfan2 said:


> That is life. It happens everywhere. *Biased does not mean corrupt. *Every coach forming a team has to break the tie between similar players somehow, and inevitably not all people agree on the decision making factors and process. Have you ever coached? Or hired people? Chances are not everyone was happy with you. Humans often go with what they know and trust and are drawn to certain people and not others. Others say different, but I have observed an NTC process that included a large number of players over the years from different leagues and clubs and a YNT pool that has largely given deserving players chances. There are imperfections in any system.


I think its BS to use the United States of America's U14 YNT List to float around on a hook to steal customers from other clubs to your club.  These weren;t coaches forming a team either. These were Docs forming a list of 12 and 13 years so they could put them on their website and get more kids to sign up.  From that list, they advertised on social media that their club develops world class players that turn into NTP.  The little little kids sign up and the club makes lot's of money and that is how you win at club soccer.


----------



## dad4

Soccerfan2 said:


> That is life. It happens everywhere. Biased does not mean corrupt. Every coach forming a team has to break the tie between similar players somehow, and inevitably not all people agree on the decision making factors and process. Have you ever coached? Or hired people? Chances are not everyone was happy with you. Humans often go with what they know and trust and are drawn to certain people and not others. Others say different, but I have observed an NTC process that included a large number of players over the years from different leagues and clubs and a YNT pool that has largely given deserving players chances. There are imperfections in any system.


If you watched tournament games where every 50/50 call went to the home team, would you sign up for that tournament?  Or would you find a better use for your time?

Not everyone does it.   Most companies would fire a hiring manager who brought in his friends without disclosing the connection and recusing himself. 

AYSO has been able to set up standards for player selection that mostly keep coaches and dads from favoring their own.   So have most symphonies.  It is not that hard.

If YNT still allows coaches to bring along their own players, that's good to know.   It means USSF does not want to set up an unbiased review process.

However, if that's the case, I won't advise kids to try out.  If YNT gives every 50/50 to the home team, there are other games to play.


----------



## Soccerfan2

dad4 said:


> If you watched tournament games where every 50/50 call went to the home team, would you sign up for that tournament?  Or would you find a better use for your time?
> 
> Not everyone does it.   Most companies would fire a hiring manager who brought in his friends without disclosing the connection and recusing himself.
> 
> AYSO has been able to set up standards for player selection that mostly keep coaches and dads from favoring their own.   So have most symphonies.  It is not that hard.
> 
> If YNT still allows coaches to bring along their own players, that's good to know.   It means USSF does not want to set up an unbiased review process.
> 
> However, if that's the case, I won't advise kids to try out.  If YNT gives every 50/50 to the home team, there are other games to play.


Hey, I had an undersized kid who played for a team that nobody knew at a club that had no special influence for a coach that is not well connected and she emerged somehow. I’m a person who thinks that the selection process is generally fair and reasonable. I came to that conclusion by watching the player pool carefully over a number of years and generally agreeing with the selections.


----------



## soccer4us

Ellejustus said:


> I never thought to ask.  Please share.....


Deza


----------



## Ellejustus

soccer4us said:


> Deza


I hope that is a joke?


----------



## Ellejustus

> youthsportsugh said:
> You can do both by using arguably the top 2 teams in their respective leagues. To have *6 girls from the top DA team* and 0 from the top ECNL team (which before the DA split hadn't really lost to that DA team) would show some discrimination. Then you can follow that up with the I am sure those 6 girls are excellent and will probably be called back. Not sure if that is what was meant, but the 2 are not mutually exclusive.


EOTL said: "Oh lord. *Stop rationalizing.* Claiming that 6 Quakes girls and 0 MVLA is “discriminatory”, and that “most”, but not all, of the Quakes girls *should get called back* by it’s very nature means that the guy doubts that Quakes girls deserved it."

Was Deza truly the Doc & Training Center Director in Nocal?

Those top top girls on Doc Deza's team from De Anza are really good and we all agree on that.  UCLA would not sign most of them if they werent YNT members.  Just like all the top top players on MLVA were good and all the top top players on that US Youth National Championship Surf team were real good too.  So, let's say each team had 5 goats x 3=15 top top players just from those three teams.  I bet you $1,000,000 I could take those 15 as the head coach and beat Spains U14 team.  I would need to add the Vegas GK as well. Just in the State of California we could probably have two U14 YNT teams and then have two more with the rest of the country.  Four U14 YNT teams makes more sense to me and that's what ODP all stars were.  Let's play ball!!!

The September 2017 "The List" is of great importance to me still and the one after that as well.  This was the new way to pick.  Remember everyone, the old way was through ODP and YNT coaches usually picked their squad. Yes, he or she would get flooded with recommendations but that coach and the scouts were watching the best of the best at ODP games.  This new way was 100% through the Docs from clubs and going to that Docs US Youth Training Center that he was in charge of was the way to go now, not ODP.  It was confirmed to me two years ago that the Doc is the one.  You had to listen to the Doctor and do what the Doctor ordered, even when the Doctor lied three big times in less than a month.  The Doctor was thee authority.  It was a new way to build your program with ynt bait on the fish hook.  Lot's of Doc went fishing in other clubs ponds and took their biggest, fastest and badest goats and got them over to their ponds.  Even dumb, foolish dads with ok players like me got fooled.


----------



## Dubs

dad4 said:


> If you watched tournament games where every 50/50 call went to the home team, would you sign up for that tournament?  Or would you find a better use for your time?
> 
> Not everyone does it.   Most companies would fire a hiring manager who brought in his friends without disclosing the connection and recusing himself.
> 
> AYSO has been able to set up standards for player selection that mostly keep coaches and dads from favoring their own.   So have most symphonies.  It is not that hard.
> 
> If YNT still allows coaches to bring along their own players, that's good to know.   It means USSF does not want to set up an unbiased review process.
> 
> However, if that's the case, I won't advise kids to try out.  If YNT gives every 50/50 to the home team, there are other games to play.


Bottome line is the process is and has been totally flawed and biased.  What is important to note is that getting called up to a YNT is a great feather in the cap, but in the larger picture means very little in terms of making the full squad.  There is much more worth and actual merit when making the U20, U23 and Full teams.


----------



## Dubs

Soccerfan2 said:


> Hey, I had an undersized kid who played for a team that nobody knew at a club that had no special influence for a coach that is not well connected and she emerged somehow. I’m a person who thinks that the selection process is generally fair and reasonable. I came to that conclusion by watching the player pool carefully over a number of years and generally agreeing with the selections.


The last 3 years with DA, it has been anything but fair.


----------



## soccer dude

dreamz said:


> Futboldad, first off I said pretty much, not totally.
> Second, I was talking about the clubs that left ECNL for DA and came back to ECNL. That doesn’t include Rebels, LA Surf, Arsenal or Sharks.
> Arsenal has been in ECNL since Day 1. They have been loyal and have won a lot in ECNL (maybe not recently but historically). Legends and beach absolutely deserve to be in ECNL but they’ll have to qualify their way in through ECRL. Good or bad, ECNL isn’t going to kick out bottom dwellers to make room for the better clubs like Beach and Legends although it would be best for the competition.
> LAG is gone so cross them off the list.
> Real gets in because of their history and producing quality teams.
> So there is no bias here. Just look at the history of the GDA teams that left ECNL and how they did in ECNL. The bottom of ECNL and the bottom of GDA are filler games for the conference and why clubs like OC Surf didn’t get back in to to ECNL.


As a Legends parent I'm disgusted at how ECNL is bracketing our club.  We never left ECNL because we were never allowed in so how can you (ECNL) put us in the "B" flight?  I'll throw Beach in there too.  Your "B" flight will be stronger than your "A" flight and what sense does that make?  My solution: have a simple qualifying playoff like CRL does.  And I say who gives a shit that Arsenal, Sharks, etc have been loyal.  There's no loyalty here.  It's about finding the best of the best yearly and keeping them playing each other in the same league.  What am I missing here?  Come on ECNL, get your shit together.  Otherwise, you're going to have another DA situation on your hands where you'll see a lot of player movement.


----------



## Ellejustus

soccer dude said:


> As a Legends parent I'm disgusted at how ECNL is bracketing our club.  We never left ECNL because we were never allowed in so how can you (ECNL) put us in the "B" flight?  I'll throw Beach in there too.  Your "B" flight will be stronger than your "A" flight and what sense does that make?  My solution: have a simple qualifying playoff like CRL does.  And I say who gives a shit that Arsenal, Sharks, etc have been loyal.  There's no loyalty here.  It's about finding the best of the best yearly and keeping them playing each other in the same league.  What am I missing here?  *Come on ECNL, get your shit together.  Otherwise, you're going to have another DA situation on your hands where you'll see a lot of player movement.*


Not without The List dude.  The List was the bait on the hook.  I agree with you, I think Beach & Legends need in this year.  Something is not right and it sucks for the kids and parents.  I asked Mr Lavers twice and still a no?  I want you guys in big time.  Be nice to the others.  Timing is everything and they were at the right league at the right time.  Just like my dd is at the right place at the right time.  Three years ago, wrong place and yet we learned so many lessons about men and how they treat some ladies and girls.


----------



## soccer4us

Ellejustus said:


> I hope that is a joke?


No. He ran it for maybe 2 years. Eventually got pushed out for basically recruiting/taking kids from that program but you can guess who nominates to national team coaches. Of course some quakes04 kids deserve it but not 6 vs 0 mvla


----------



## vegasguy

soccer dude said:


> And I say who gives a shit that Arsenal, Sharks, etc have been loyal. There's no loyalty here


 I get your frustration but we do not know what was said in regards to Legends and Beach.  Maybe they did not commit to "all in " because they were waiting to see what DA did.    Or maybe they always wanted to play two leagues.  Does any one know specifics?


----------



## dean

I know a parent who was told by a certain quakes coach earlier this year that if they brought their DD to quakes - she'd def be invited to next NTC/talent identification camp, whatever they're calling it these days. Sure that happens a lot...


----------



## Palmcina

soccer dude said:


> As a Legends parent I'm disgusted at how ECNL is bracketing our club.  We never left ECNL because we were never allowed in so how can you (ECNL) put us in the "B" flight?  I'll throw Beach in there too.  Your "B" flight will be stronger than your "A" flight and what sense does that make?  My solution: have a simple qualifying playoff like CRL does.  And I say who gives a shit that Arsenal, Sharks, etc have been loyal.  There's no loyalty here.  It's about finding the best of the best yearly and keeping them playing each other in the same league.  What am I missing here?  Come on ECNL, get your shit together.  Otherwise, you're going to have another DA situation on your hands where you'll see a lot of player movement.


Interesting take on loyalty. If you want into ECNL so badly then join Arsenal.  Who gives a sh*t that your DD has been with her team for x amount of time.  ECNL teams are available for those good enough to make them.  You got to roll with the punches or get left out.


----------



## youthsportsugh

soccer4us said:


> No. He ran it for maybe 2 years. Eventually got pushed out for basically recruiting/taking kids from that program but you can guess who nominates to national team coaches. Of course some quakes04 kids deserve it but not 6 vs 0 mvla


I knew about the PDP in region 2 of NorCal as we had that interaction with him, but my daughter didn't like the interactions at the "tryouts" with the other girls that were already in.  She was invited back, but didn't want to go, so we didn't.


----------



## GT45

soccer dude said:


> As a Legends parent I'm disgusted at how ECNL is bracketing our club.  We never left ECNL because we were never allowed in so how can you (ECNL) put us in the "B" flight?  I'll throw Beach in there too.  Your "B" flight will be stronger than your "A" flight and what sense does that make?  My solution: have a simple qualifying playoff like CRL does.  And I say who gives a shit that Arsenal, Sharks, etc have been loyal.  There's no loyalty here.  It's about finding the best of the best yearly and keeping them playing each other in the same league.  What am I missing here?  Come on ECNL, get your shit together.  Otherwise, you're going to have another DA situation on your hands where you'll see a lot of player movement.


Easy to blame it on ECNL. Why don't you ask your director about his relationship with Lavers. Maybe just maybe your guy burned that bridge for you.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Palmcina said:


> Interesting take on loyalty. If you want into ECNL so badly then join Arsenal.  Who gives a sh*t that your DD has been with her team for x amount of time.  ECNL teams are available for those good enough to make them.  You got to roll with the punches or get left out.


By that logic, why didn’t girls jump to DA if they wanted to be on the National team.   

My answer, they shouldn’t have too....that applies to both statements.


----------



## Ellejustus

soccer4us said:


> No. He ran it for maybe 2 years. Eventually got pushed out for basically recruiting/taking kids from that program but you can guess who nominates to national team coaches. Of course some quakes04 kids deserve it but not 6 vs 0 mvla


Interesting to see how these TCs were really used for.  I too was told how to make The List.  We had no U14 National team ever back in 2015 and they were looking to build one.  This would be the youngest team ever to take on the likes of Spain.  Trips to Europe and even pros for the top top players i was sold and 100% fully funded.  I was pissed off at my daughters only TC invite.  She got bad marks in her only eval and the good Doctor did not invite her back.  I had no idea he was the Director too of the San Diego TC and the one who invites and uninvites as he sees fit.  Do what the doctor asks, and you have a better chance at The List.  Go against the Doctors orders and kiss that dream good bye.  Sounds so healthy to me and just the kind of Doctor I want as a roll model for my precious baby girl.  No thanks and we left too.


----------



## GT45

Kicker4Life said:


> By that logic, why didn’t girls jump to DA if they wanted to be on the National team.
> 
> My answer, they shouldn’t have too....that applies to both statements.


ECNL is a privately run league. They can invite who they want. If you want to play in it, go join an ECNL team. If you want to play for Legends, then do so.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> By that logic, why didn’t girls jump to DA if they wanted to be on the National team.
> 
> My answer, they shouldn’t have too....that applies to both statements.


Kicker, I always argued the issues with that failed league was the use of "The List" to take top players to come over to the GDA access to YNT league. ECNL was and is a private company and only sold access to college coaches a few times a year at their showcase.  That is a big difference than waving the YNT wand and trick folks.  My dd was banned from the league because she fought for HS Soccer and was not the right fit for the snitches.  Karma is a bitch.  You should never, ever mess with any little girls dreams.  I mean that.  "come over hear and you will make ID Camp or this or that."  My kid is one of thousands who have watched the WNT team win gold and world cups left and right and that is one of the reasons she still plays the game. My dd is a winner and what some assholes did to her and other little girls with dreams was dumb and not wise.


----------



## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> I think its BS to use the United States of America's U14 YNT List to float around on a hook to steal customers from other clubs to your club.  These weren;t coaches forming a team either. These were Docs forming a list of 12 and 13 years so they could put them on their website and get more kids to sign up.  From that list, they advertised on social media that their club develops world class players that turn into NTP.  The little little kids sign up and the club makes lot's of money and that is how you win at club soccer.


Whaaaah. Kids can play for whomever they want. If they find a better option who can better advance their interests, good for them. It’s not like any YNT roster is a secret. If you’re a better coach who can provide better opportunity, by all means go get ‘em. It’s certainly more ethical for a coach to bring in kids based in the coach’s hard work than one who just bribes a dad by offering his kid a free ride. Regardless, if there was ever someone in favor of mobility, one would think you are the guy.


----------



## Palmcina

Kicker4Life said:


> By that logic, why didn’t girls jump to DA if they wanted to be on the National team.
> 
> My answer, they shouldn’t have too....that applies to both statements.


My point was that if you’re going to argue screw loyalty then it shouldn’t be a big deal to follow the shiny object aka ECNL club. 

On your point, if I felt my child was good enough for the YNT and her current club was an obstacle then I would put her where it most benefited her.  Some times that changes year to year but hopefully it doesn’t.


----------



## EOTL

soccer dude said:


> As a Legends parent I'm disgusted at how ECNL is bracketing our club.  We never left ECNL because we were never allowed in so how can you (ECNL) put us in the "B" flight?  I'll throw Beach in there too.  Your "B" flight will be stronger than your "A" flight and what sense does that make?  My solution: have a simple qualifying playoff like CRL does.  And I say who gives a shit that Arsenal, Sharks, etc have been loyal.  There's no loyalty here.  It's about finding the best of the best yearly and keeping them playing each other in the same league.  What am I missing here?  Come on ECNL, get your shit together.  Otherwise, you're going to have another DA situation on your hands where you'll see a lot of player movement.


The haves never give to the have nots for nothing; that is something you need to accept to have any chance of moving up. You need to offer them something that outweighs the risk that you might take their customers. Being good competition isn’t enough because there is already good competition. You need to be able to show that not letting you into the A bracket hurts their financial bottom line.


----------



## Kicker4Life

GT45 said:


> ECNL is a privately run league. They can invite who they want. If you want to play in it, go join an ECNL team. If you want to play for Legends, then do so.


You failed to see my point or I failed to make it more clear.


----------



## dad4

....


GT45 said:


> ECNL is a privately run league. They can invite who they want. If you want to play in it, go join an ECNL team. If you want to play for Legends, then do so.


If the league or the member clubs are 501c3, then they claim to be running a charity to promote the game.  That is different from claiming to run a private business.


----------



## SoccerGuru

soccer dude said:


> As a Legends parent I'm disgusted at how ECNL is bracketing our club.  We never left ECNL because we were never allowed in so how can you (ECNL) put us in the "B" flight?  I'll throw Beach in there too.  Your "B" flight will be stronger than your "A" flight and what sense does that make?  My solution: have a simple qualifying playoff like CRL does.  And I say who gives a shit that Arsenal, Sharks, etc have been loyal.  There's no loyalty here.  It's about finding the best of the best yearly and keeping them playing each other in the same league.  What am I missing here?  Come on ECNL, get your shit together.  Otherwise, you're going to have another DA situation on your hands where you'll see a lot of player movement.


I have always said that Legends and Beach should have been allowed in and are great clubs but it does sound like whoever is in charge burned a bridge with ecnl. Also, I understand the frustration but to say beach, legends and Pats are a better league than slammers, blues, SD surf, strikers and real so cal....probably not the best argument you could make.


----------



## EOTL

dad4 said:


> ....
> 
> If the league or the member clubs are 501c3, then they claim to be running a charity to promote the game.  That is different from claiming to run a private business.


Running a charity does not mean people should not be paid appropriately for the good work they do. And FYI, “appropriately” means as much money as allows them to run a financially sustainable program. If you’re paying yourself even $250k a year but keeping some children fit, opening college doors for them, and the non-profit isn’t losing money, by all means take it. If Joel Osteen can take home $50 million plus perks in his career while locking the doors to keep out the homeless and needy, certainly a guy running a youth soccer program who actually helps kids should be able to make 0.5% of that per year.

Regardless, “appropriately” does not mean what an anonymous internet poster who has never run a real business thinks is too much or unfair. Your belief that a non-profit soccer club’s goal should be “to promote the game” is just wrong. It is to try to provide whatever benefit the non-profit chooses, which comes in many different forms.  Maybe exercise is enough for many kids. Maybe opening college doors. Maybe keeping kids out of trouble.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> Running a charity does not mean people should not be paid appropriately for the good work they do. And FYI, “appropriately” means as much money as allows them to run a financially sustainable program. If you’re paying yourself even $250k a year but keeping some children fit, opening college doors for them, and the non-profit isn’t losing money, by all means take it. If Joel Osteen can take home $50 million plus perks in his career while locking the doors to keep out the homeless and needy, certainly a guy running a youth soccer program who actually helps kids should be able to make 0.5% of that per year.
> 
> Regardless, “appropriately” does not mean what an anonymous internet poster who has never run a real business thinks is too much or unfair. Your belief that a non-profit soccer club’s goal should be “to promote the game” is just wrong. It is to try to provide whatever benefit the non-profit chooses, which comes in many different forms.  Maybe exercise is enough for many kids. Maybe opening college doors. Maybe keeping kids out of trouble.


I agree with you smartypants.  I also appreciate your love for HS Soccer.  Hmmmmm!!!  I also understand now why you make fun of me for heading to surf for the freebies.  Also, if a doc is making $250,000 a year, then by all means he too can give out some freebies to those in need.


----------



## dad4

EOTL said:


> Running a charity does not mean people should not be paid appropriately for the good work they do. And FYI, “appropriately” means as much money as allows them to run a financially sustainable program. If you’re paying yourself even $250k a year but keeping some children fit, opening college doors for them, and the non-profit isn’t losing money, by all means take it. If Joel Osteen can take home $50 million plus perks in his career while locking the doors to keep out the homeless and needy, certainly a guy running a youth soccer program who actually helps kids should be able to make 0.5% of that per year.
> 
> Regardless, “appropriately” does not mean what an anonymous internet poster who has never run a real business thinks is too much or unfair. Your belief that a non-profit soccer club’s goal should be “to promote the game” is just wrong. It is to try to provide whatever benefit the non-profit chooses, which comes in many different forms.  Maybe exercise is enough for many kids. Maybe opening college doors. Maybe keeping kids out of trouble.


At this point, ECNL deliberately throws up barriers that make it hard to schedule games for top level athletes. 

How is that consistent with being a public benefit organization?  You are directly harming the very people you claim to help.

Raise the game my ass.


----------



## EOTL

dad4 said:


> At this point, ECNL deliberately throws up barriers that make it hard to schedule games for top level athletes.
> 
> How is that consistent with being a public benefit organization?  You are directly harming the very people you claim to help.
> 
> Raise the game my ass.


I think you are confusing ECNL with GDA. You are also confusing “providing a public benefit” with “providing you personally with a benefit.” ECNL and member clubs unquestionably provide children with benefits. Whether they do it the way you want them to is your problem.

Joel Osteen has legally made over $50 million teaching the “prosperity gospel” while ignoring the homeless and destitute right outside his door. Claiming that ECNL and member clubs are not benefiting the public because a few daddies at Beach FC aren’t getting what they want or to their satisfaction is one of the pettiest and most pathetic things I’ve heard in a while, and that’s saying a lot given that @Ellejustus is posting every five minutes again.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> I think you are confusing ECNL with GDA. You are also confusing “providing a public benefit” with “providing you personally with a benefit.” ECNL and member clubs unquestionably provide children with benefits. Whether they do it the way you want them to is your problem.
> 
> Joel Osteen has legally made over $50 million teaching the “prosperity gospel” while ignoring the homeless and destitute right outside his door. Claiming that ECNL and member clubs are not benefiting the public because a few daddies at Beach FC aren’t getting what they want or to their satisfaction is one of the pettiest and most pathetic things I’ve heard in a while, and that’s saying a lot given that @Ellejustus is posting every five minutes again.


Easy Tiger.  I took my rocket out to the park for some PE for two hours and just got back.  I'm grateful I get to be PE teacher and campus patrol officer at my house.  My wife handles all the admin and homework.  I only ask for one thing from her.  What's the GPA?  My mom volunteered her time once a week at Rev. Robert Schuller suicide hot line back in the late 70s.  She did it for free for 10 years and was his mother of year one year.  Plus, our family had a big write up in Life Magazine but the Vietnam War kept her story from being published. My mom would tell me some of the stories of people she helped to live another day and not give up.  Some really bad stories of death of despair too I won;t share on here.  Anyway, she fell on her face at one of his retreat centers he owned by the Ranch where all the Blues used to run around.  I would be reminded at my dd practices back then of how he treated my mother so poorly and actually blamed her for tripping on one of those old Spanish walk ways that had no lights back then.  After her deposition, he realized he made mistake and took care of her the right way as he should have.  I'm good with all the top Revs and Docs making a few bucks but share a the loot too.


----------



## dad4

EOTL said:


> I think you are confusing ECNL with GDA. You are also confusing “providing a public benefit” with “providing you personally with a benefit.” ECNL and member clubs unquestionably provide children with benefits. Whether they do it the way you want them to is your problem.
> 
> Joel Osteen has legally made over $50 million teaching the “prosperity gospel” while ignoring the homeless and destitute right outside his door. Claiming that ECNL and member clubs are not benefiting the public because a few daddies at Beach FC aren’t getting what they want or to their satisfaction is one of the pettiest and most pathetic things I’ve heard in a while, and that’s saying a lot given that @Ellejustus is posting every five minutes again.


It is easy to confuse ECNL with GDA, because you are behaving in exactly the same manner, and deserve exactly the same respect.  None.

If ECNL wants to run as a mutual benefit non-profit for the benefit of DOCs, then ask congess to change the tax laws.  If you want to run as a public benefit corporation, then expect people to ask you to benefit the public.

So, to parents driving past a GA club in order to play an ECNL club 30 miles further away, remember that it was Blues and Slammers who did this to you.  And they did it so they would have an excuse to raise your fees.


----------



## EOTL

dad4 said:


> It is easy to confuse ECNL with GDA, because you are behaving in exactly the same manner, and deserve exactly the same respect.  None.
> 
> If ECNL wants to run as a mutual benefit non-profit for the benefit of DOCs, then ask congess to change the tax laws.  If you want to run as a public benefit corporation, then expect people to ask you to benefit the public.
> 
> So, to parents driving past a GA club in order to play an ECNL club 30 miles further away, remember that it was Blues and Slammers who did this to you.  And they did it so they would have an excuse to raise your fees.


Huh, ECNL is fully compliant with the tax laws. You’re the one who wants them to do something that tax laws do not require. You’re the one who needs to ask Congress to change them, because ECNL and I are perfectly happy the way they are. Cha Ching!

If the tax laws were such that non-profit status depended on whether a particular person believes a non-profit is doing what it wants, I’d argue that Beach FC and Legends should be stripped of their non-profit status because they aren’t serving the interests of elite youth soccer players nearly as successfully as the clubs in ECNL. Specifically, they couldn’t make their own awesome league but, rather, they stupidly chose to take shortcuts by joining GDA although I told everyone it was doomed.


----------



## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> Easy Tiger.  I took my rocket out to the park for some PE for two hours and just got back.  I'm grateful I get to be PE teacher and campus patrol officer at my house.  My wife handles all the admin and homework.  I only ask for one thing from her.  What's the GPA?  My mom volunteered her time once a week at Rev. Robert Schuller suicide hot line back in the late 70s.  She did it for free for 10 years and was his mother of year one year.  Plus, our family had a big write up in Life Magazine but the Vietnam War kept her story from being published. My mom would tell me some of the stories of people she helped to live another day and not give up.  Some really bad stories of death of despair too I won;t share on here.  Anyway, she fell on her face at one of his retreat centers he owned by the Ranch where all the Blues used to run around.  I would be reminded at my dd practices back then of how he treated my mother so poorly and actually blamed her for tripping on one of those old Spanish walk ways that had no lights back then.  After her deposition, he realized he made mistake and took care of her the right way as he should have.  I'm good with all the top Revs and Docs making a few bucks but share a the loot too.


I am sorry @dad4 for accusing you of saying things more petty and pathetic than @Ellejustus. I obviously was not thinking clearly.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> I am sorry @dad4 for accusing you of saying things more petty and pathetic than @Ellejustus. I obviously was not thinking clearly.


Listen Darrell, I've just about had enough of you and all the others who have hurt my little old feelings about, you know..... Anyway, Slammers is the clear winner with two ECNL clubs.  Did you hear that?  Two, not one, but two.  Blues won because they got paid for three years.  Good for them too. Surf did well too and good for them.  We all played the game and were all still standing.  Let's stay positive.


----------



## dad4

EOTL said:


> Huh, ECNL is fully compliant with the tax laws. You’re the one who wants them to do something that tax laws do not require. You’re the one who needs to ask Congress to change them, because ECNL and I are perfectly happy the way they are. Cha Ching!
> 
> If the tax laws were such that non-profit status depended on whether a particular person believes a non-profit is doing what it wants, I’d argue that Beach FC and Legends should be stripped of their non-profit status because they aren’t serving the interests of elite youth soccer players nearly as successfully as the clubs in ECNL. Specifically, they couldn’t make their own awesome league but, rather, they stupidly chose to take shortcuts by joining GDA although I told everyone it was doomed.


They did make their own awesome league.  It’s called GA.

Best of all, GA can solve their travel problems by taking a page from the ECNL playbook and accepting lots of good, but not exceptional, clubs. Without head to head competition, parents won’t know the difference.  

ECNL can tell a story about how they are the only top league in the country with top teams like Blues.  GA can tell a story about how they are the real top league, with great teams like Top Hat.  And we can all drive past each other on our way to our diluted “elite” games.

Thanks, Slammers.  Thanks, Blues.  Great system.  Genius.


----------



## Giesbock

Someone needs to start a GA conversation.  There are legitimate and well respected DOCs and clubs involved.  Not to trifle with.  Good luck to David vs. Goliath.


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> Someone needs to start a GA conversation.  There are legitimate and well respected DOCs and clubs involved.  Not to trifle with.  Good luck to David vs. Goliath.


"GAL" was a bad look and "GA" looks like it's a league for Tophat and all the teams from Georgia.  I think the GA league has potential but the name has to go.  "LOL" looks way better.  Stands for, "Left out League."  I wish we could all find a way to play each other.  Enjoy the extra day off this weekend bro


----------



## Surf Zombie

Sign the Petition
					

Support Tophat To Be Accepted Back In ECNL! #ecnl4tophat #abouttheplayers_tophat




					www.change.org
				




Some of Top Hat’s players (parents?) petitioning to try to get ECNL.


----------



## Giesbock

Surf Zombie said:


> Sign the Petition
> 
> 
> Support Tophat To Be Accepted Back In ECNL! #ecnl4tophat #abouttheplayers_tophat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.change.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of Top Hat’s players (parents?) petitioning to try to get ECNL.


When Club leaders, board members, doc’s, lawyers, etc. come together to negotiate how to merge as a new league, is a multi-party contract signed?  

I’m asking cause yes, my daughter is on an awesome GA club team, great coach who is working hard to keep the girls engaged, motivated and prepared for when they get back on the field.
That also means that if Tophat parents get their way and Ellejustus’ prayers come true that Beach and Legends goes over to ECNL, the prospects for a strong GA are severely diminished.  That would be an incredible bummer.  (Let the David league have a crack at Goliath league!)

So back to my question. Is there a contract in place that binds the GA together for the 2020-21 season?  Or can teams come and go at will with no repercussions?  Thanks.


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> When Club leaders, board members, doc’s, lawyers, etc. come together to negotiate how to merge as a new league, is a multi-party contract signed?
> 
> I’m asking cause yes, my daughter is on an awesome GA club team, great coach who is working hard to keep the girls engaged, motivated and prepared for when they get back on the field.
> That also means that if Tophat parents get their way and Ellejustus’ prayers come true that Beach and Legends goes over to ECNL, the prospects for a strong GA are severely diminished.  That would be an incredible bummer.  (Let the David league have a crack at Goliath league!)
> 
> So back to my question. Is there a contract in place that binds the GA together for the 2020-21 season?  Or can teams come and go at will with no repercussions?  Thanks.


I was praying for a few pals of mind bro and for the strongest teams to play one another for bragging rights.  I petition Mr Lavers to allow the Top Hat and Beach and legends to the party for 2020-2021.  This would bring unity to the ones that matter, the girls.  Jump over to ECNL bro if you can.  PM me, I have a few ideas......  Sorry about all this man. Its sucks for ALL the girls, it really does.  I mean that 100%.


----------



## SoccerGuru

Giesbock said:


> When Club leaders, board members, doc’s, lawyers, etc. come together to negotiate how to merge as a new league, is a multi-party contract signed?
> 
> I’m asking cause yes, my daughter is on an awesome GA club team, great coach who is working hard to keep the girls engaged, motivated and prepared for when they get back on the field.
> That also means that if Tophat parents get their way and Ellejustus’ prayers come true that Beach and Legends goes over to ECNL, the prospects for a strong GA are severely diminished.  That would be an incredible bummer.  (Let the David league have a crack at Goliath league!)
> 
> So back to my question. Is there a contract in place that binds the GA together for the 2020-21 season?  Or can teams come and go at will with no repercussions?  Thanks.


Beach and legends are not getting ecnl for 20-21 so we can shut that discussion down.


----------



## Giesbock

SoccerGuru said:


> Beach and legends are not getting ecnl for 20-21 so we can shut that discussion down.


With due respect, SoccerGuru, if someone knows how these things work, I’d be interested in knowing before shutting this discussion down.


----------



## Yellowcard

Giesbock said:


> With due respect, SoccerGuru, if someone knows how these things work, I’d be interested in knowing before shutting this discussion down.


My understanding is that the DOCs from the other clubs have to vote to allow clubs to be added to the Region.  Its obvious that the DOCs don’t want to add Legends, Beach or Tophat.   I can’t imagine a petition will or can change it.


----------



## timbuck

A petition?   Do people just think that by getting a bunch of signatures they can change what a company does with its business?
If the petition doesn’t work- Maybe we can start a go fund me page.  Those seem to be popular now when someone needs help.


----------



## Yellowcard

Honest question.....Why is Tophat positioning to be in ECNL?  I thought GAL was the best thing since sliced bread.  The best of the DA but add high school Soccer back in.
At least that’s what the DOCs are telling the parents at our local GAL clubs.  And they “chose to not go to ECNL”.


----------



## futboldad1

The GA league is not going to have top teams or talent..... that is just the truth, but I'm sure some DOCs are selling it hard after being shut out by the ECNL.....


----------



## Ellejustus

Yellowcard said:


> Honest question.....Why is Tophat positioning to be in ECNL?  I thought GAL was the best thing since sliced bread.  The best of the DA but add high school Soccer back in.
> At least that’s what the DOCs are telling the parents at our local GAL clubs.  And they “chose to not go to ECNL”.


So Tasty!!!


----------



## Yellowcard

Ellejustus said:


> So Tasty!!!
> View attachment 7299


Haha. Funny!!!! but that was a direct quote from the DOC of a club who didn’t get into ECNL


----------



## Ellejustus

Yellowcard said:


> Haha. Funny!!!! but that was a direct quote from the DOC of a club who didn’t get into ECNL


Doc said, " GAL is best league since slice bread" or "We chose to decline the ECNL offer and stick with the GALs?


----------



## dad4

As long as ECNL is excluding great clubs, you will find great clubs in GA.   GA might become weak if ECNL ever goes pro-rel, but don’t hold your breath for that.


----------



## GT45

dad4 said:


> As long as ECNL is excluding great clubs, you will find great clubs in GA.   GA might become weak if ECNL ever goes pro-rel, but don’t hold your breath for that.


GAL has not even begun. It cannot 'become weak'. It does not even exist yet other than in people's minds. It has no central leadership headquarters (like ECNL or DA). It is a bunch of clubs trying to hold onto players by throwing together a league on a few days notice. The task they are taking on is enormous. Do not underestimate what they are walking into. A league is a mammoth task.


----------



## dad4

GT45 said:


> GAL has not even begun. It cannot 'become weak'. It does not even exist yet other than in people's minds. It has no central leadership headquarters (like ECNL or DA). It is a bunch of clubs trying to hold onto players by throwing together a league on a few days notice. The task they are taking on is enormous. Do not underestimate what they are walking into. A league is a mammoth task.


Mammoth task?  Yeah, just count the thousands and thousands of local leagues that have folded over the years because no one could figure out how to use scheduling software.  Remember when every little league team west of the Hudson folded because no one knew how to create a website?  

Not buying it.  Hard work?  Sure.  Needs to be done?  Absolutely.   Mammoth task?  No way.  

They will buy some scheduling software, create a schedule, and organize games.   That’s a league.  You don’t need a mansion in Chicago.  You need games.


----------



## wc_baller

dad4 said:


> Mammoth task?  Yeah, just count the thousands and thousands of local leagues that have folded over the years because no one could figure out how to use scheduling software.  Remember when every little league team west of the Hudson folded because no one knew how to create a website?
> 
> Not buying it.  Hard work?  Sure.  Needs to be done?  Absolutely.   Mammoth task?  No way.
> 
> They will buy some scheduling software, create a schedule, and organize games.   That’s a league.  You don’t need a mansion in Chicago.  You need games.


This is a National League, not a local one. There is no comparison. The nature of a national league makes things much more complex to run. For example, conferences span multiple states, and those states often times have high school soccer at different times of the year, causing the scheduling of games across state lines to be a tricky task. There will be at least a half dozen showcases all over the country, and it takes a year to plan each one. If you've ever been to and ECNL or GDA showcase, you'd realize how much planning and organization has to go into each showcase. Have you ever been to one? Think of organizing more than a half dozen Surf Cups at different venues all over the country at different times of the year, plus playoffs and finals. Downplay the effort all you want, but you comparing it to a local league lets me know all I need to know about your level of knowledge about how these leagues work.
If US soccer, with all of it's resources, couldn't succeed with their national league, the success of the new GA league is far for assured.


----------



## Giesbock

futboldad1 said:


> The GA league is not going to have top teams or talent..... that is just the truth, but I'm sure some DOCs are selling it hard after being shut out by the ECNL.....


That would imply that the weakest player on any given ECNL team is stronger than the best player on any given GA team.  Or is that not quite what you meant to say?

Our DOC cares not one whit about being in ECNL or not.  Focus is on getting the girls ready to play in the GA.


----------



## Giesbock

Giesbock said:


> That would imply that the weakest player on any given ECNL team is stronger than the best player on any given GA team.  Or is that not quite what you meant to say?
> 
> Our DOC cares not one whit about being in ECNL or not.  Focus is on getting the girls ready to play in the GA.


And yes, I am throwing my hopes behind the GA.  Trust the organization my daughter is with and away we go!  

I’m sure ECNL is stacked with talent and skill, but not every player from former DA suddenly went poof and landed on an ECNL team.  

Wish your player (s) a great upcoming season.


----------



## GT45

Giesbock said:


> That would imply that the weakest player on any given ECNL team is stronger than the best player on any given GA team.  Or is that not quite what you meant to say?
> 
> Our DOC cares not one whit about being in ECNL or not.  Focus is on getting the girls ready to play in the GA.


Is your club in the ECNL Regional League? If so, I suspect your DOC does care a lot about being in ECNL. Did your club try to get into ECNL? If so I suspect your DOC cares a lot about being in ECNL.


----------



## dad4

wc_baller said:


> This is a National League, not a local one. There is no comparison. The nature of a national league makes things much more complex to run. For example, conferences span multiple states, and those states often times have high school soccer at different times of the year, causing the scheduling of games across state lines to be a tricky task. There will be at least a half dozen showcases all over the country, and it takes a year to plan each one. If you've ever been to and ECNL or GDA showcase, you'd realize how much planning and organization has to go into each showcase. Have you ever been to one? Think of organizing more than a half dozen Surf Cups at different venues all over the country at different times of the year, plus playoffs and finals. Downplay the effort all you want, but you comparing it to a local league lets me know all I need to know about your level of knowledge about how these leagues work.
> If US soccer, with all of it's resources, couldn't succeed with their national league, the success of the new GA league is far for assured.


Your argument is that DA/GA clubs dont know how to run showcases?

Top Hat runs one already.   Nor are they the only GA club who know how to run a large tournament.

Enough with sowing fear.  Yes, they have a lot of work to do.  I wish them luck.


----------



## Yellowcard

Ellejustus said:


> Doc said, " GAL is best league since slice bread" or "We chose to decline the ECNL offer and stick with the GALs?


Both


----------



## supercell

I presume there is something like an annual fee the clubs pay to ECNL or GA for each season to cover administration. Since GA has no infrastructure for this, are the fees higher?  If the fed couldn't support it, it seems like GA costs have to now be covered by the membership. How does this work?


----------



## Ellejustus

Yellowcard said:


> Both


Wow, sounds like a Spin Doctor.  That's why soccer in America has been spinning around in circles chasing it's own tail and not chasing the opponents tail!!!


----------



## Giesbock

GT45 said:


> Is your club in the ECNL Regional League? If so, I suspect your DOC does care a lot about being in ECNL. Did your club try to get into ECNL? If so I suspect your DOC cares a lot about being in ECNL.


you could be right...maybe he did care but moved on to become a key founding member of the GA.


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> you could be right...maybe he did care but moved on to become a key founding member of the GA.


Hey bro, I remember when you first came on here.  I love the work ethic of your dd and how she's kicking ass.  GAL in Socal will be strong and we should all respect each league in Socal.  I could start a new thread, *SW ECNL vs SW GALs...the toxic war continues in Socal*?  I can say if the top GAL teams keep most of their top goats, the best team in Socal could come from a GAL team.  We should have a socal championship game at the end of next season between the top SW ECNL team and the top SW GAL team.  I like that your standing up for your league.


----------



## Ellejustus

BTW, I just saw a video of the next great one.  Only 6 years old......









						Youngster cruises through intense soccer drill - ESPN Video
					

A 6-year-old shows his serious technical ability in these at-home soccer drills.




					www.espn.com
				




@Luis Andres.  Tell *Flash* she has someone on her heels big time.  @MacDre, my dd is the* Rocket.* I was curious if your dd has a super power? I know she is smart. I remember my old HS Catcher Damon Berryhill telling me about catching the great Greg Maddox. Maddox would only let Bear catch him, no one else. He would tell me that Maddox was a geek and nerd and the nicest guy in the world. But when he pitched, he became a silent assassin when those glasses came off. Happy Memorial Day Weekend to the both of you


----------



## wc_baller

dad4 said:


> Your argument is that DA/GA clubs dont know how to run showcases?
> 
> Top Hat runs one already.   Nor are they the only GA club who know how to run a large tournament.
> 
> Enough with sowing fear.  Yes, they have a lot of work to do.  I wish them luck.


LOL. That's you're entire takeaway from that? Way to totally miss the entire point. Showcases and scheduling are just two small examples why a national league is different than a local league. Stick to NorCal NPL, my dude, and quit crying about two leagues you're not involved in.


----------



## Giesbock

Ellejustus said:


> Hey bro, I remember when you first came on here.  I love the work ethic of your dd and how she's kicking ass.  GAL in Socal will be strong and we should all respect each league in Socal.  I could start a new thread, *SW ECNL vs SW GALs...the toxic war continues in Socal*?  I can say if the top GAL teams keep most of their top goats, the best team in Socal could come from a GAL team.  We should have a socal championship game at the end of next season between the top SW ECNL team and the top SW GAL team.  I like that your standing up for your league.


Let’s hope maybe it isn’t toxic..?

watching Köln vs Düsseldorf playing right now...two cities a half hour apart with total disdain for people from opposing city!


----------



## dad4

wc_baller said:


> LOL. That's you're entire takeaway from that? Way to totally miss the entire point. Showcases and scheduling are just two small examples why a national league is different than a local league. Stick to NorCal NPL, my dude, and quit crying about two leagues you're not involved in.


Not the only takeaway.  You also claimed that working around HS soccer seasons is a super hard scheduling problem.

There are local leagues that accomodate religious groups with two different definitions of the Sabbath.  Four months blocked out for HS soccer is nothing compared to one side saying “never Saturday” and the other side saying “never Sunday”.   That one is tricky.  

Beyond showcases and schedules, I don’t think you made any arguments.  A couple ad-hominem attacks against me, but they didn’t seem worth replying to.

off to watch Koln.  got to get my priorities straight.


----------



## wc_baller

dad4 said:


> Not the only takeaway.  You also claimed that working around HS soccer seasons is a super hard scheduling problem.
> 
> There are local leagues that accomodate religious groups with two different definitions of the Sabbath.  Four months blocked out for HS soccer is nothing compared to one side saying “never Saturday” and the other side saying “never Sunday”.   That one is tricky. If two states in the same conference have soccer seasons at different times of the year, that means there are 8 months of the year they can’t compete against each other. In your example of a local league planning around
> 
> Beyond showcases and schedules, I don’t think you made any arguments.  A couple ad-hominem attacks against me, but they didn’t seem worth replying to.
> 
> off to watch Koln.  got to get my priorities straight.


Again, scheduling and showcases were just two small examples of national league complexities, but just sticking to those two examples.....  If a conference has teams from states that have their high school season at different times of the year, they can’t compete against each other for 8 months out of a 10 month season. In your example about a local league planning around Sabbath, that still leaves them with 5 out of 7 days in the week to play games, and since all the teams are within driving distance that is much simpler than planning games between teams from different states.
As far a the showcase thing is concerned, if you think planning multiple national events like an ECNL showcase at different locations all over the country is as simple as planning a local or regional event like the Tophat showcase with a very limited number of teams, I don’t know what to tell you. If you’ve been to one, you’d know the difference, and there is no comparison. It’s like comparing 7-11 to Whole Foods.


----------



## Ellejustus

wc_baller said:


> Again, scheduling and showcases were just two small examples of national league complexities, but just sticking to those two examples.....  If a conference has teams from states that have their high school season at different times of the year, they can’t compete against each other for 8 months out of a 10 month season. In your example about a local league planning around Sabbath, that still leaves them with 5 out of 7 days in the week to play games, and since all the teams are within driving distance that is much simpler than planning games between teams from different states.
> As far a the showcase thing is concerned, if you think planning multiple national events like an ECNL showcase at different locations all over the country is as simple as planning a local or regional event like the Tophat showcase with a very limited number of teams, I don’t know what to tell you. If you’ve been to one, you’d know the difference, and there is no comparison.* It’s like comparing 7-11 to Whole Foods.*


My old roommate after HS would drink a 12 pack of Coors Lite and then head over to AM/PM across the street from our house and buy two hot dogs with cheese all over it.  He would then puke and then drink some more.  Never met anyone like Kent, who could pound beer like that.  I had the pizza slices at 7-11 and no comment.  The pizza slices at whole foods is legit and super tasty 

*          7-11 Pizza Slice *       vs             *Whole Foods Pizza Slice*


Can you see the difference?


----------



## vegasguy

wc_baller said:


> . If a conference has teams from states that have their high school season at different times of the year, they can’t compete against each other for 8 months out of a 10 month season


ECNL and NV high school are in the fall.  Our state allows club and hs play at the same time.  It is difficult with the travel but all the HS coaches know ECNL comes first and players know ECNL comes first.  It was a big issue a couple years ago on the girls side as the PHX Showcase fell on the same weekend as the State Championships.   One team who thought they would win lost a big bulk of their starters that weekend and were very upset.


----------



## dad4

wc_baller said:


> Again, scheduling and showcases were just two small examples of national league complexities, but just sticking to those two examples.....  If a conference has teams from states that have their high school season at different times of the year, they can’t compete against each other for 8 months out of a 10 month season. In your example about a local league planning around Sabbath, that still leaves them with 5 out of 7 days in the week to play games, and since all the teams are within driving distance that is much simpler than planning games between teams from different states.
> As far a the showcase thing is concerned, if you think planning multiple national events like an ECNL showcase at different locations all over the country is as simple as planning a local or regional event like the Tophat showcase with a very limited number of teams, I don’t know what to tell you. If you’ve been to one, you’d know the difference, and there is no comparison. It’s like comparing 7-11 to Whole Foods.


The ECNL showcases are mostly under 200 teams. 

As events go, that is pretty small.  Why compare it to Surf?   That is deliberately misleading.  By team count, a showcase is considerably smaller than most regional tournaments. 

The right comparison is Draegers versus Safeway.  And ECNL/GA showcases are Draegers.


----------



## dad4

vegasguy said:


> ECNL and NV high school are in the fall.  Our state allows club and hs play at the same time.  It is difficult with the travel but all the HS coaches know ECNL comes first and players know ECNL comes first.  It was a big issue a couple years ago on the girls side as the PHX Showcase fell on the same weekend as the State Championships.   One team who thought they would win lost a big bulk of their starters that weekend and were very upset.


Probably safer for the kids if they gave you blackout dates for the HS season.   Neither LA nor NV has a snow problem.  Why play both at once?   You both have 12 months of warm weather to pick from.


----------



## shales1002

dad4 said:


> Probably safer for the kids if they gave you blackout dates for the HS season.   Neither LA nor NV has a snow problem.  Why play both at once?   You both have 12 months of warm weather to pick from.


Nevada has Reno. Tough playing in the snow for them. Reno dictates  the Hs soccer schedule for whatever reason. They also think they will have an easier time with the club girls being away during the Phoenix Showcase. Thus the schedule.


----------



## vegasguy

dad4 said:


> Probably safer for the kids if they gave you blackout dates for the HS season.   Neither LA nor NV has a snow problem.  Why play both at once?   You both have 12 months of warm weather to pick from.


NV is a fall high school season for many reasons. One being, there is snow in Northern NV in the winter so fields there would be hard to come by.  Most high schools do not have lighted soccer fields so games would be tough to schedule in the winter and the football fields are used for girls flag football (its a thing).  There may be some sort of Title IX with the use of lights as well per one principal i asked.  So we play both hs and a modified ECNL fall schedule with a heavy spring ECNL schedule.


----------



## wc_baller

dad4 said:


> The ECNL showcases are mostly under 200 teams.
> 
> As events go, that is pretty small.  Why compare it to Surf?   That is deliberately misleading.  By team count, a showcase is considerably smaller than most regional tournaments.
> 
> The right comparison is Draegers versus Safeway.  And ECNL/GA showcases are Draegers.


Surf Cup older girls had 200 teams in 2019. The comparison is based on the quality of the event. I'll ask you again, have you ever attended either one? It's laughable that you think you're able to compare without having ever been. If you ask anyone who's been to both, I bet they will tell you that the quality and organization of ECNL events are better than the Surf Cup.


----------



## Ellejustus

wc_baller said:


> Surf Cup older girls had 200 teams in 2019. The comparison is based on the quality of the event. I'll ask you again, have you ever attended either one? It's laughable that you think you're able to compare without having ever been. If you ask anyone who's been to both, I bet they will tell you that the quality and organization of ECNL events are better than the Surf Cup.


My first Surf Cup was amazing.  It was the last year I believe of just one group, the best of the best.  I have been to 5 Surf Cups and two ECNL Showcases, both in Arizona.  ECNL is Lexus and old Surf Cup was Toyota.  Now, Surf Cup is like a Ford Focus.  Too many teams.  Charge more and make it more exclusive and only bring in the best of the best and you might have a Lexus or at the very least a Toyota.


----------



## Dominic

Yes Surf Cup "Best of the Best" had a special feel to it. My sons team made it to Monday once, and my Daughters team attended twice.


----------



## wc_baller

Ellejustus said:


> My first Surf Cup was amazing.  It was the last year I believe of just one group, the best of the best.  I have been to 5 Surf Cups and two ECNL Showcases, both in Arizona.  ECNL is Lexus and old Surf Cup was Toyota.  Now, Surf Cup is like a Ford Focus.  Too many teams.  Charge more and make it more exclusive and only bring in the best of the best and you might have a Lexus or at the very least a Toyota.


That was in 2016, and I agree it was great when all of the top teams were in the same Best of the Best bracket at Surf. The following year really sucked, when the GDA teams had their own bracket, they played a weekend before the other non GDA brackets, and you had multiple teams winning their bracket in the same age group claiming to be the Best of the Best and not being to play each other. There is some hope with the dissolution of the GDA, and no league having their own special bracket, it goes back to its glory days. Although with a lot of the top teams now going to Silverlakes, I don't think Surf will ever be as glorious.


----------



## dad4

wc_baller said:


> Surf Cup older girls had 200 teams in 2019. The comparison is based on the quality of the event. I'll ask you again, have you ever attended either one? It's laughable that you think you're able to compare without having ever been. If you ask anyone who's been to both, I bet they will tell you that the quality and organization of ECNL events are better than the Surf Cup.


You painted it as a logistical challenge.  The logistical challenge is not high level olders.  The hard logistics are low level youngers.  More kids and more parents per acre.

The Surf I know is the youngers madhouse.  As Dominic said, a ton of fun.  But a much larger logistics challenge than an event with 2000 kids.


----------



## Ellejustus

My dd had the honor to play in 4 of 4 Monday Surf Cup Finals and come out on top of two of them.  Last year sucked!!!  No playoffs, just three showcase games with zero Ganas.  Plus, they had three groups and someone decided who the "best of the best" were and it pissed others off.  All GDA too.  Go figure........Not a smart marketing move at all!!!  That was dumb!!!  But hey, what do I know.  Get back to the basics and what brought you the brand that it is today, "Best of the Best on the West Coast Surf Cup 2020"


----------



## Copa9

dad4 said:


> They did make their own awesome league.  It’s called GA.
> 
> Best of all, GA can solve their travel problems by taking a page from the ECNL playbook and accepting lots of good, but not exceptional, clubs. Without head to head competition, parents won’t know the difference.
> 
> ECNL can tell a story about how they are the only top league in the country with top teams like Blues.  GA can tell a story about how they are the real top league, with great teams like Top Hat.  And we can all drive past each other on our way to our diluted “elite” games.
> 
> Thanks, Slammers.  Thanks, Blues.  Great system.  Genius.





GT45 said:


> Is your club in the ECNL Regional League? If so, I suspect your DOC does care a lot about being in ECNL. Did your club try to get into ECNL? If so I suspect your DOC cares a lot about being in ECNL.


You are obviously a parent of a ulittle or a player just entering the league with


supercell said:


> I presume there is something like an annual fee the clubs pay to ECNL or GA for each season to cover administration. Since GA has no infrastructure for this, are the fees higher?  If the fed couldn't support it, it seems like GA costs have to now be covered by the membership. How does this work?


Probably quite well since US soccer screwed everyone to fund their youth national teams and their international competition and pay high salaries to themselves.


----------



## Ellejustus

Copa9 said:


> You are obviously a parent of a ulittle or a player just entering the league with
> 
> Probably quite well since US soccer screwed everyone to fund their youth national teams and their international competition and pay high salaries to themselves.


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## dad4

Copa9 said:


> You are obviously a parent of a ulittle or a player just entering the league with
> 
> Probably quite well since US soccer screwed everyone to fund their youth national teams and their international competition and pay high salaries to themselves.


Yep.  Just ulittle.  A ton of things I dont get yet.


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## Jose has returned

El Cap said:


> Can you guys all STFU about covid-19, social justice and all the political BS on just 1 thread?


its the elephant in the room and the entire reason there are no sports right now for anyone. So it will come up


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## Ellejustus

I have officially retired from Politics and Religion on social forums.  I will stay on point and only talk Soccer from now on 

What does elephant in room mean?
an *elephant* in the *room*. informal. If you say there is an *elephant* in the *room*, you *mean* that there is an obvious problem or difficult situation that people *do* not want to talk about. Difficult situations and unpleasant experiences. a (heavy) cross to bear idiom


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## Ellejustus

ECNL outlines return-to-play recommendations to minimize COVID-19 risk
					

ECNL Return to Play Recommendations have been unveiled.




					www.soccerwire.com


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## jpeter

Return to play recommendations


			https://t.co/4SV3cEVUzi?amp=1
		


Video: 








						ECNL Recommendations for Returning to Play.mp4
					

Shared with Dropbox




					www.dropbox.com
				




Only 2 states so far with 3 more listed between now and June 15.

Starts with 9 players and a coach and not until phase 5 full play, 2 weeks each phase so 6-10 weeks minium once started.


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## futboldad1

jpeter said:


> Return to play recommendations
> 
> 
> https://t.co/4SV3cEVUzi?amp=1
> 
> 
> 
> Video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ECNL Recommendations for Returning to Play.mp4
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only 2 states so far with 3 more listed between now and June 15.
> 
> Starts with 9 players and a coach and not until phase 5 full play, 2 weeks each phase so 6-10 weeks minium once started.


"6-10 weeks minimum" once began? Where do you get  number bigger than 6 weeks from? Are you meaning until they can play league games? Even then it is 6 weeks. Genuinely asking as maybe you misread it or maybe I did.....

Phase 1 which is 2 weeks at home is already complete...... then Phase 2 which is 2 weeks with 9 + coach..... then Phase 3 which is 2 weeks with 18 + coach......  then Phase 4 is 2 weeks of unrestricted team training before formal competition.......

So how I read it is once cleared to return it is 4 weeks of no contact training after which you can begin scrimmages and then 2 weeks of contact training before you can get into Phase 5 of tournaments or league games.....


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## jpeter

futboldad1 said:


> "6-10 weeks minimum" once began? Where do you get  number bigger than 6 weeks from? Are you meaning until they can play league games? Even then it is 6 weeks. Genuinely asking as maybe you misread it or maybe I did.....
> 
> Phase 1 which is 2 weeks at home is already complete...... then Phase 2 which is 2 weeks with 9 + coach..... then Phase 3 which is 2 weeks with 18 + coach......  then Phase 4 is 2 weeks of unrestricted team training before formal competition.......
> 
> So how I read it is once cleared to return it is 4 weeks of no contact training after which you can begin scrimmages and then 2 weeks of contact training before you can get into Phase 5 of tournaments or league games.....


6 weeks is the minimum if you meet all the guidelines, 2 weeks each phase. Page 4 in the PDF.  5x2  =10 wks but could be 6,8,or 10 weeks thus the 6-10.

Olders haven't played in 3-4 months getting back to full play in less than 10 weeks would be challenge for them, maybe 6 weeks for youngers or so but depends as the guidelines suggest.  We're all hopefully but that's there guidelines.


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## futboldad1

jpeter said:


> 6 weeks is the minimum if you meet all the guidelines, 2 weeks each phase. Page 4 in the PDF.  5x2  =10 weeks.
> 
> Olders haven't played in 3-4 months getting back to full play in less than 10 weeks would be challenge for them, maybe 6 weeks for youngers or so but depends as the guidelines suggest.


Got it..... but the two weeks for training at home is what every ECNL player or team should have been doing anyway and they do not need clearance for that to begin right now if they had not been .....


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## jpeter

futboldad1 said:


> Got it..... but the two weeks for training at home is what every ECNL player or team should have been doing anyway and they do not need clearance for that to begin right now if they had not been .....


Yes they should have plenty of lead time to get those first two weeks in. 

The 2nd phase is only 9 players + coach so that's going to be a challenge with double that amount and field availability, can that get done in only 2 weeks?


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## soccer4us

None of this PDF really matters until your county hits phase 3. For many that could be first 2 weeks of June and could be on pace to play 11v11 games when normal ECNL league season would begin. Other counties may not follow that final step. Will counties that don't have main HS fall sports going allow fields to be used for club soccer normal games? I imagine many use city and school fields. Some may have their own field but a small percentage.


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## oh canada

as i posted in another thread, don't forget that if your state/county is still requiring facemasks if within 6ft then all players will have to wear them if they are going to play anything that resembles normal soccer.  Facemask requirement will likely be the last to be repealed, especially here in Cali.


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## oh canada

And btw, LA requires facemasks as soon as you go outside -- doesn't even matter if more than 6ft away.


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## rainbow_unicorn

California initiated phase 3 last night.  LA mayor Garcetti just announced that all LA businesses are allowed to open with restrictions.


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## Palmcina

rainbow_unicorn said:


> California initiated phase 3 last night.  LA mayor Garcetti just announced that all LA businesses are allowed to open with restrictions.


That’s not what he said. He said all retail stores can open.


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## Surf Zombie

https://149363092.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/2020-21-Girls-ECNL-Club-Map-as-of-6120.001.jpeg


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## Surf Zombie

ECNL now has 9 regions.

North East- 9 teams
North Atlantic- 9 teams
Ohio Valley- 10 teams 
Midwest- 11 teams 
South East- 12 teams  
Texas- 12 teams
Mid Atlantic- 13 teams
South West- 14 teams 
North West- 23 teams

Wonder if they eventually split up the North West into 8/8/7 or 16/7? 

I'd expect clubs like Beach, Legends, West Coast, Pats,  Sporting Blue Valley & FC Virginia (who are playing in ECNL-R this year) to be strong candidates for next season.


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## Soccer4evr

Question about ECNL fees:  Is it typical for a club to ask for an upfront payment of both fall and spring seasons? DA fees were split in to two seasons.


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## futboldad1

Soccer4evr said:


> Question about ECNL fees:  Is it typical for a club to ask for an upfront payment of both fall and spring seasons?


yes it is.... as it is one season just with a high school break in the middle


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## wc_baller

futboldad1 said:


> yes it is.... as it is one season just with a high school break in the middle


Every club is different. We pay for Fall and Spring separately. Our club requires us to put down a non-refundable deposit in order to reserve our roster spot on the ECNL team. The remainder of the balance for the Fall season can be paid in full or in installments once we return to the field. We have to do the same thing in the Spring.


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## Ellejustus

wc_baller said:


> Every club is different. We pay for Fall and Spring separately. Our club requires us to put down a non-refundable deposit in order to reserve our roster spot on the ECNL team. The remainder of the balance for the Fall season can be paid in full or in installments once we return to the field. We have to do the same thing in the Spring.


or pay in full and get 10% off.  Might not be worth the 10% savings if no soccer is played and you cant get your money back.  Easy call this year for my family


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## futboldad1

wc_baller said:


> Every club is different. We pay for Fall and Spring separately. Our club requires us to put down a non-refundable deposit in order to reserve our roster spot on the ECNL team. The remainder of the balance for the Fall season can be paid in full or in installments once we return to the field. We have to do the same thing in the Spring.


payment durations yes this is correct..... contract is for full year though.... but maybe your club does that differently I only have personal experience at a couple of bigger clubs


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## wc_baller

futboldad1 said:


> payment durations yes this is correct..... contract is for full year though.... but maybe your club does that differently I only have personal experience at a couple of bigger clubs


It’s definitely not for the full year for us.


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## Soccer43

every club team whether SCDSL, ECNL, DA or CSL has required full payment at the beginning of the season.  Most had some payment plan options where you could split it up over a few months but everything had to be paid typically by Oct.


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## Surf Zombie

My kids are at two different clubs. Daughter plays ECNL. My son is younger and plays locally. Both clubs reduced the initial deposits to accept their spot for the year.  Daughter’s club was $250. Son’s was only $50. I think deposits were about $600 each last year. Paying the deposit contractually binds you for the year.

Neither club raised prices this year and both offered refunds ($600 & $800) to apply towards tuition for 20/21 season. Both clubs offered pay in full, quarterly or monthly payment plans.

Overall I think they have been very fair about it.    I’ve also heard that both clubs have been accommodating to parents who may have lost their jobs.  Essentially taking the position they’d work something out financially and would have a spot for every kid who played with them last year. May not be on the same team, but no one was getting tossed out of the club for $ reasons or because a better 9 year old showed up this year.


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## Ellejustus

Surf Zombie said:


> My kids are at two different clubs. Daughter plays ECNL. My son is younger and plays locally. Both clubs reduced the initial deposits to accept their spot for the year.  Daughter’s club was $250. Son’s was only $50. I think deposits were about $600 each last year. Paying the deposit contractually binds you for the year.
> 
> Neither club raised prices this year and both offered refunds ($600 & $800) to apply towards tuition for 20/21 season. Both clubs offered pay in full, quarterly or monthly payment plans.
> 
> Overall I think they have been very fair about it.    I’ve also heard that both clubs have been accommodating to parents who may have lost their jobs.  Essentially taking the position they’d work something out financially and would have a spot for every kid who played with them last year. May not be on the same team, but no one was getting tossed out of the club for $ reasons or because a better 9 year old showed up this year.


That is super cool


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## Copa9

Soccer4evr said:


> Question about ECNL fees:  Is it typical for a club to ask for an upfront payment of both fall and spring seasons? DA fees were split in to two seasons.


There may not be a spring season this next year if covid makes a comeback.   Money grab by clubs to stay in business. We are not in a "typical" season ahead.


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