# Which u12 DA team in the Los Angeles region has the most talented players ?



## atorres401

04' - 05'


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## Fishme1

LAG
LAFC
I have to say LAUFA has a competitive few.


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## Wez

I guess OC teams are in the San Diego Division, that leaves a lot of talent just outside the LA division.


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## PaytoplayinLancaster?

Any word on the how the '06 teams look yet?  That should be interesting because next year's U12's will be filled with kids who didn't play DA.


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## SBFDad

PaytoplayinLancaster? said:


> Any word on the how the '06 teams look yet?  That should be interesting because next year's U12's will be filled with kids who didn't play DA.


Just like this year with 04/05. There's a lot of talented 06s out there. Time will tell where the talent will settle.


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## younothat

Spread out...

For 17-18'  U13 = 05, U14=04 and both will play 11v11 next season right?    That changes things somewhat,  which players will use the bigger field, longer games,  more space, etc  better?  Additional players takes better teamwork, several factors come into play.   Playi time won't be as evenly spread out as in U12,  starters and maybe 3 subs going to see the majority of the playing time for example in most cases

Which team(s) trusted players playing up this past 16-17 year?

In the end doesn't matter all that much which team might have the most talent, "not what you have but how you use it..."


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## SBFDad

younothat said:


> Spread out...
> 
> For 17-18'  U13 = 05, U14=04 and both will play 11v11 next season right?    That changes things somewhat,  which players will use the bigger field, longer games,  more space, etc  better?  More players takes better teamwork, several factors come into play
> 
> Which team(s) trusted players playing up this past 16-17 year?
> 
> In the end doesn't matter team all that much who might have the most talent, "not what you have but how you use it..."


Agree. And yes, 04 and 05 will be playing on the big boy field this next year. Far departure from the small, tight spaces they've been playing on for the past 8 months. Some will excel on the bigger field, others will struggle.


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## Fishme1

SBFDad said:


> Agree. And yes, 04 and 05 will be playing on the big boy field this next year. Far departure from the small, tight spaces they've been playing on for the past 8 months. Some will excel on the bigger field, others will struggle.


What does it mean the U14 will be playing nationally. Are they going to be going out of state often? If so, what would be considered cal state region.


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## younothat

Fishme1 said:


> What does it mean the U14 will be playing nationally. Are they going to be going out of state often? If so, what would be considered cal state region.


Going to be some showcases;  one in later fall (SC played the NC teams) and the winter Futsal (SC played SC teams) one.   This past year the fall one was at Stub Hub Center and Futsal at Galaxy Center in Torrance so both of those where local.  

 This new season 17-18' might be different, fall one could be up north this time.

Did your coach tell you DA U14 will be playing nationally?  Maybe that's about out of state tournaments or something?


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## Fishme1

younothat said:


> Going to be some showcases;  one in later fall (SC played the NC teams) and the winter Futsal (SC played SC teams) one.   This past year the fall one was at Stub Hub Center and Futsal at Galaxy Center in Torrance so both of those where local.
> 
> This new season 17-18' might be different, fall one could be up north this time.
> 
> Did your coach tell you DA U14 will be playing nationally?  Maybe that's about out of state tournaments or something?


I see, actually read it on the 16-17 academy application thread. I might have misread your post there.


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## younothat

Fishme1 said:


> I see, actually read it on the 16-17 academy application thread. I might have misread your post there.


There is a summer showcase and playoffs this 16-17' season for the olders & U14 (02's) can play in the showcase at Grand Park in Westfield, IN during June & July
http://www.ussoccerda.com/20170209-Summer-Showcase-and-Playoffs

Normally the age group just before the the playoffs start are included in the summer event. so for next season 17-18' that will be the U15 (03') group for the summer showcase most likely.


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## xav10

SBFDad said:


> Just like this year with 04/05. There's a lot of talented 06s out there. Time will tell where the talent will settle.


LAFC 06 looks ridiculously good.


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## Dargle

xav10 said:


> LAFC 06 looks ridiculously good.


Given that, any idea why LAFC 06 decided to take two teams to Cerritos rather than go to Man City with the other 06 USSDA teams?  Seems like a lose-lose for them.  If they carve up the teams from which their players came, they just look like bullies kicking sand in other kids' faces (and they don't get much development out of that).  If, on the other hand, they're not ready for prime time and they lose to some non-Academy teams, it's a little embarassing, especially since it's not likely most of their opponents are going to have the benefit of continuity going for them.  Most top non-DA teams had to retool their rosters fairly substantially because of DA departures.


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## xav10

I hear you but I don't know why they did that.


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## YNWA 96

Dargle said:


> Given that, any idea why LAFC 06 decided to take two teams to Cerritos rather than go to Man City with the other 06 USSDA teams?  Seems like a lose-lose for them.  If they carve up the teams from which their players came, they just look like bullies kicking sand in other kids' faces (and they don't get much development out of that).  If, on the other hand, they're not ready for prime time and they lose to some non-Academy teams, it's a little embarassing, especially since it's not likely most of their opponents are going to have the benefit of continuity going for them.  Most top non-DA teams had to retool their rosters fairly substantially because of DA departures.


LAFC aren't the only 06 DA teams playing Cerritos this weekend, West Coast also has a DA team and I believe most of the LAUFA team are on their DA team as well.   Should be a great weekend.


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## xav10

YNWA 96 said:


> LAFC aren't the only 06 DA teams playing Cerritos this weekend, West Coast also has a DA team and I believe most of the LAUFA team are on their DA team as well.   Should be a great weekend.


Doesn't appear to be any competition for the LAFC kids in that tourney.


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## MostlyDisappointed

LAFC are very athletic.


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## xav10

MostlyDisappointed said:


> LAFC are very athletic.


They have two teams. In 3 games each they are a combined 42 GF and 4 GA.  "Athletic" is one way to put it.


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## 3leches

MostlyDisappointed said:


> LAFC are very athletic.


They have a couple of stand out players but they are an athletic team. You can't use this weekend scores as a guide for how good they arewhen most of the competition are newly formed teams. I was able to see them play and they are athletic nothing wrong with that, smaller teams are going to have a tough time.


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## xav10

3leches said:


> They have a couple of stand out players but they are an athletic team. You can't use this weekend scores as a guide for how good they arewhen most of the competition are newly formed teams. I was able to see them play and they are athletic nothing wrong with that, smaller teams are going to have a tough time.


And one of them lost to golden state i see!


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## MostlyDisappointed

xav10 said:


> They have two teams. In 3 games each they are a combined 42 GF and 4 GA.  "Athletic" is one way to put it.


The teams LAFC were hammering in group play were alternately bad teams that didn't lose players to DA, or decent teams heavily depleted by DA.

It's an athletic group, and I'm sure the coaches have a plan to start backfilling some of the necessary soccer stuff.


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## C.A.M.

Hello everyone.  First there are a lot of USSDA teams playing in Cerritos this weekend in the 2006 group.

Arsenal
FC Golden State
LAUFA
LA Galaxy
Patadores
West Coast
LAFC - 2 teams.
Albion
Strikers FC


Manchester has two Surf teams, two SDSA Navy teams and TFA I believe.  

A lot of top tier competition at Cerritos and I commend all the clubs who are coming in to fight and play hard.  

LAFC is athletic, but the style isn't kickball.  That ball stays on the ground, every player touches it and the keepers are involved, barely punting.  It's good Futbol.

One team did get beat by Golden State (another US Academy) in the quarter finals.  That little keeper was standing on his head man,  stopping break away after break away and they did a fantastic job in the game.  Well deserved win.

Don't hate on the talent if they are playing the right way.  Looks like it's game on for the 06 division.


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## C.A.M.

My last paragraph should read:

Don't hate on the talent if they are playing the right way.  And let's not act like Slammers FC, Pumas and some other squads are not really good teams.   Slammers and Pumas both lost in the quarter finals. Looks like it's game on for the 06 division.


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## Dargle

C.A.M. said:


> Hello everyone.  First there are a lot of USSDA teams playing in Cerritos this weekend in the 2006 group.
> 
> Arsenal
> FC Golden State
> LAUFA
> LA Galaxy
> Patadores
> West Coast
> LAFC - 2 teams.
> Albion
> Strikers FC
> 
> 
> Manchester has two Surf teams, two SDSA Navy teams and TFA I believe.
> 
> A lot of top tier competition at Cerritos and I commend all the clubs who are coming in to fight and play hard.
> 
> LAFC is athletic, but the style isn't kickball.  That ball stays on the ground, every player touches it and the keepers are involved, barely punting.  It's good Futbol.
> 
> One team did get beat by Golden State (another US Academy) in the quarter finals.  That little keeper was standing on his head man,  stopping break away after break away and they did a fantastic job in the game.  Well deserved win.
> 
> Don't hate on the talent if they are playing the right way.  Looks like it's game on for the 06 division.


I don't think anyone is hating on LAFC or any other team.  As you said, it turns out that there were other DA teams.  LAFC was different though.  The other DA teams were generally pre-existing teams entered with their old names (e.g., FC Golden State PDA or Arsenal Pre-Academy), with I think only one (West Coast FC) putting DA in their names.  Some of those were not really the DA teams either (e.g., LA Galaxy SB Pre-Academy I was definitely not the USSDA squad, although it had some players who will be on that DA squad).  Most of the DA teams may have had different players, but they generally had a core of players who played with that team all year or who played with that club on some team last year.  Moreover, by entering under their former name, it is a reminder that DA, which doesn't permit DA teams to compete in open divisions against non-DA teams in multiple games per day tournaments leading to trophies, doesn't actually start until August and therefore this is no different than a normal season where an old team can recruit some new players for the spring tournaments.  LAFC, by contrast, is a brand-new all star DA team.   The players came from all over and there was no core that played together as a team last year.  Thus, there was no pretense that it is just the continuation of a non-DA team playing in a normal tournament.  It is a pure DA team and therefore entering it into an open tournament felt like an attempt to get around the USSDA philosophy barring such competitions.  Moreover, LAFC was clearly better funded than any other team at the tournament and it made no attempt to hide that fact.  They brought four coaches, including their full-time GK coach who warmed up the goalkeepers before each game, and had all four coaches on the bench for each team's games.  There was definitely an attempt to fly the LAFC flag, with gear everywhere.  There was a Man City feel to it -- even if the other DA teams are fully or partially funded for the players it seemed clear that LAFC was spending more on its players than any other club there.  In these circumstances, it's not surprising that LAFC would attract a bit more scrutiny than the other DA teams.


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## Dargle

C.A.M. said:


> My last paragraph should read:
> 
> Don't hate on the talent if they are playing the right way.  And let's not act like Slammers FC, Pumas and some other squads are not really good teams.   Slammers and Pumas both lost in the quarter finals. Looks like it's game on for the 06 division.


I should have added to the above post that I agree that the LAFC teams seemed to be playing the right way.  LAFC got a lot of breakaways using their speed, but they were playing through balls on the ground to the wingers, not over the top hopeful balls.  It is also true that LAFC picked some big and fast boys -- both teams had central defenders who towered over everyone else and were fast/strong and both had very fast and athletic players all over -- but in some cases those advantages were neutralized, not highlighted, by the way the team was playing the ball.


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## YNWA 96

Dargle said:


> I don't think anyone is hating on LAFC or any other team.  As you said, it turns out that there were other DA teams.  LAFC was different though.  The other DA teams were generally pre-existing teams entered with their old names (e.g., FC Golden State PDA or Arsenal Pre-Academy), with I think only one (West Coast FC) putting DA in their names.  Some of those were not really the DA teams either (e.g., LA Galaxy SB Pre-Academy I was definitely not the USSDA squad, although it had some players who will be on that DA squad).  Most of the DA teams may have had different players, but they generally had a core of players who played with that team all year or who played with that club on some team last year.  Moreover, by entering under their former name, it is a reminder that DA, which doesn't permit DA teams to compete in open divisions against non-DA teams in multiple games per day tournaments leading to trophies, doesn't actually start until August and therefore this is no different than a normal season where an old team can recruit some new players for the spring tournaments.  LAFC, by contrast, is a brand-new all star DA team.   The players came from all over and there was no core that played together as a team last year.  Thus, there was no pretense that it is just the continuation of a non-DA team playing in a normal tournament.  It is a pure DA team and therefore entering it into an open tournament felt like an attempt to get around the USSDA philosophy barring such competitions.  Moreover, LAFC was clearly better funded than any other team at the tournament and it made no attempt to hide that fact.  They brought four coaches, including their full-time GK coach who warmed up the goalkeepers before each game, and had all four coaches on the bench for each team's games.  There was definitely an attempt to fly the LAFC flag, with gear everywhere.  There was a Man City feel to it -- even if the other DA teams are fully or partially funded for the players it seemed clear that LAFC was spending more on its players than any other club there.  In these circumstances, it's not surprising that LAFC would attract a bit more scrutiny than the other DA teams.


Great post and completely agree.  

One side note, the LAGSB PA1 team does not have any DA players, that is the team that will play in the SCDSL in the fall.


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## C.A.M.

Good morning Dargle,

I don't get the reason for scrutiny though.  Golden State had 3 coaches on their bench and yes they are fully funded.  We all know LAFC has more money just like LA Galaxy has more money and has spent $30k for one training session for their girls/boys to be with professionals.  

WHAT WE ALL ALSO KNOW IS LAFC only had 04 and 05 for this current DA season and are unable to field an 06 team that had a core.  With this being the case,  how are they trying to get around the rules?  They aren't.  This is why I mentioned don't hate if the kids are playing the right way.  I would also like to add they act the right way and show great sportsmanship.  The team that lost to Golden State consoled the OC Premier team that lost in pks to Slammers right before them.  

Plus clubs like LAFC and LA Galaxy represent the highest level of the game for our country.  Being an example for what we want the environment to be for our children is their responsibility if as a country we want the boys/men's game to have the international success we have on the girl's /women's side. We have a long road to haul to get there and we can only get there as a soccer community.  You have to support my kid and I have to support your kid even when we are different teams.


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## MostlyDisappointed

C.A.M. said:


> Good morning Dargle,
> 
> I don't get the reason for scrutiny though.


Really?

I think about the time you set up custom tents arranged as a _de facto_ players lounge, have parents in branded gear who don't seem to understand the poor nature of the competition, and then play an exceedingly effective if maybe not entirely sustainable youth soccer style, you're probably going to get some scrutiny. It could even be said you've earned it at that point.  

And just to be clear about the style: the kids play fine. It's not like they're just launching it and winning knock-downs. Any criticism probably stems from the fact that you are correct in saying this is the highest level in the country, and it's reasonable to expect some sophistication in approach.


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## PaytoplayinLancaster?

Pats Yorba Linda just beat LAFC in the final.


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## Lambchop

C.A.M. said:


> Good morning Dargle,
> 
> I don't get the reason for scrutiny though.  Golden State had 3 coaches on their bench and yes they are fully funded.  We all know LAFC has more money just like LA Galaxy has more money and has spent $30k for one training session for their girls/boys to be with professionals.
> 
> WHAT WE ALL ALSO KNOW IS LAFC only had 04 and 05 for this current DA season and are unable to field an 06 team that had a core.  With this being the case,  how are they trying to get around the rules?  They aren't.  This is why I mentioned don't hate if the kids are playing the right way.  I would also like to add they act the right way and show great sportsmanship.  The team that lost to Golden State consoled the OC Premier team that lost in pks to Slammers right before them.
> 
> Plus clubs like LAFC and LA Galaxy represent the highest level of the game for our country.  Being an example for what we want the environment to be for our children is their responsibility if as a country we want the boys/men's game to have the international success we have on the girl's /women's side. We have a long road to haul to get there and we can only get there as a soccer community.  You have to support my kid and I have to support your kid even when we are different teams.


?  
Wouldn't it be great if all our kids could have professional trainers and great coaches ? Our kids would be grateful and humble too, especially if their club paid for them to play!


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## C.A.M.

Okay how do I say this without being divisive or smug?  We do all have professional coaches at this level.  Most of us are paying our clubs for our coaches who are full time coaches at the club and some school level.  

Sometimes the coaching is great and sometimes it isn't.  What remains is consistent - these are all kids.  Kids at different levels of development, abilities, desire to play this game  and blessed with parents dedicating themselves to whatever future the kids have.  

While many are focusing on the amount of coaches, branding, etc... it detracts from this:

Those kids are working hard, playing fair, playing a great brand of soccer and enjoying themselves.  They support each other whether winning or losing and the coaches aren't screaming at them; they are coaching them.  The atmosphere is positive and challenging.  

The other LAFC team lost to Pats in a game they were up 2-0 in the Finals game.  They did their best and came up short.  The coaches let them go through it and gave them love at the end.  Parents and kids from the other LAFC team showed up to support.  Nothing is perfect, but the atmosphere for the kids is pretty damn good.  

Both my kids have been in very bad and very good atmospheres.  I just got the bad news that the only coach who could get my daughter to play after being with a coach who destroyed that joy just left us all.  Please do me a favor and support all these kids and don't let the "other stuff" take away what is important.  

I'm out.


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## socrlvr

Just saw - TFA won Man City again,  there were several upcoming Academies teams - 2 surf, 2 TFA, SDSC NAvy, DeAnza Force,2 out of state teams, couple nor cal teams.


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## Dargle

C.A.M. said:


> WHAT WE ALL ALSO KNOW IS LAFC only had 04 and 05 for this current DA season and are unable to field an 06 team that had a core.  With this being the case,  how are they trying to get around the rules?  They aren't.  This is why I mentioned don't hate if the kids are playing the right way.  I would also like to add they act the right way and show great sportsmanship.  The team that lost to Golden State consoled the OC Premier team that lost in pks to Slammers right before them.
> 
> Plus clubs like LAFC and LA Galaxy represent the highest level of the game for our country.  Being an example for what we want the environment to be for our children is their responsibility if as a country we want the boys/men's game to have the international success we have on the girl's /women's side. We have a long road to haul to get there and we can only get there as a soccer community.  You have to support my kid and I have to support your kid even when we are different teams.


I don't want to perpetuate this thread topic unnecessarily, especially since I really don't hate LAFC and I didn't see anything improper about the behavior of the kids this weekend or even the parents.  I thought the whole operation was pretty impressive and I applaud LAFC's financial commitment to the Academy Program.  I just wanted to clarify something.

When I said that LAFC was evading the USSDA rules, what I meant is the rules that prohibit DA teams from playing tournaments against non-DA teams.  DA teams aren't even supposed to play tournaments at all at this age group, just like they don't keep standings for DA league games at this age group.  The whole philosophy is that the emphasis on winning has interfered with the US being able to develop top players and a top national team.  There are definitely 04/05 kids and parents who complained about this aspect of DA after a year of doing it.  Without tournaments, league championships etc to play for, it felt more like a job for some people.  Still, that's what they signed up for and that's what all the kids/parents in 06 are signing up for in DA.

LAFC was able to get around this rule because, technically, DA doesn't start until August.  So, this was not a DA team, but just a group of kids.  What I was pointing out was that with the other new DA teams, they at least had some argument that this was really just part of the last hurrah of Spring/Summer tournament season for the kids remaining from the old pre-DA team plus a few new kids, not the first new tournament of a DA team.  LAFC couldn't make that claim.  You are correct that this holds LAFC to a higher standard than clubs that had 2006 teams in 2016-2017.  It would probably be better if USSDA just stepped in and clarified that once a DA team is formed, they should adhere to DA standards.  Still, it's notable that LA Galaxy's DA did not field a team in a tournament using the pre-DA loophole.

All of this is a long way of saying it was one more reason (although not the only, or even primary, reason) that it would be natural for teams to notice LAFC more than other Academy teams and to scrutinize what they were doing.


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## C.A.M.

Dargle said:


> I don't want to perpetuate this thread topic unnecessarily, especially since I really don't hate LAFC and I didn't see anything improper about the behavior of the kids this weekend or even the parents.  I thought the whole operation was pretty impressive and I applaud LAFC's financial commitment to the Academy Program.  I just wanted to clarify something.
> 
> When I said that LAFC was evading the USSDA rules, what I meant is the rules that prohibit DA teams from playing tournaments against non-DA teams.  DA teams aren't even supposed to play tournaments at all at this age group, just like they don't keep standings for DA league games at this age group.  The whole philosophy is that the emphasis on winning has interfered with the US being able to develop top players and a top national team.  There are definitely 04/05 kids and parents who complained about this aspect of DA after a year of doing it.  Without tournaments, league championships etc to play for, it felt more like a job for some people.  Still, that's what they signed up for and that's what all the kids/parents in 06 are signing up for in DA.
> 
> LAFC was able to get around this rule because, technically, DA doesn't start until August.  So, this was not a DA team, but just a group of kids.  What I was pointing out was that with the other new DA teams, they at least had some argument that this was really just part of the last hurrah of Spring/Summer tournament season for the kids remaining from the old pre-DA team plus a few new kids, not the first new tournament of a DA team.  LAFC couldn't make that claim.  You are correct that this holds LAFC to a higher standard than clubs that had 2006 teams in 2016-2017.  It would probably be better if USSDA just stepped in and clarified that once a DA team is formed, they should adhere to DA standards.  Still, it's notable that LA Galaxy's DA did not field a team in a tournament using the pre-DA loophole.
> 
> All of this is a long way of saying it was one more reason (although not the only, or even primary, reason) that it would be natural for teams to notice LAFC more than other Academy teams and to scrutinize what they were doing.


Understood.  This year it's the 2006s.  Next year it will be the 2007s, etc....  It's the one and only tourney our boys will play unless we do Surf Academy Division.  Same for my daughter who is a 2003 Academy player doing Legends College Showcase next weekend them LAPFC College Showcase the weekend after.  

To be honest after 7 years of this, I will be happy to have my kids play one game a day only.  The quality of play will hopefully be much higher along with the officiating crew.  From what I have seen, that is the case.  

I appreciate you clarifying your thoughts.  Best of luck with you and yours.


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## C.A.M.

This 5 minutes to edit a post thing is frustrating me .

I want to say all the DAs that were represented this weekend will be doing the same.  You can only scrimmage so much.  As I said earlier they are still kids and enjoy playing.  And believe me, DA is a serious committment (3 days a week plus games for this age group plus games).  Older age groups is 4 days Plus games -u daughter is on that schedule.

Question - was is not a good thing for the other teams to see great athletes play great soccer and have fun?  Was it bad for a squad like Santa Monica to battle the LAFC squad and realize that if they bring that type of energy and focus in their league they can be great?  

I specifically mention them because that team went down 2-0 in the first two minutes and fought hard while playing a great brand of soccer.  They eventually fell 5-0, but they should extremely proud.


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## Zvezdas

Hmmm CAM you say thats the only tourney besides surf lafc could play, well most of the 06 DA teams will play in galaxy cup! Also we all played some and will play some more friendlies during the summer with other DA teams, so there is really no urgent need to play in other tournaments...


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## yoyo

C.A.M. said:


> was is not a good thing for the other teams to see great athletes play great soccer and have fun?  Was it bad for a squad like Santa Monica to battle the LAFC squad and realize that if they bring that type of energy and focus in their league they can be great?


SMU lost 6 players this spring to DA clubs. A 7th kid they're losing started on the bench.

I can confirm that they are always appreciative of the chance to play against the best teams, even as they rebuild.


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## C.A.M.

Zvezdas said:


> Hmmm CAM you say thats the only tourney besides surf lafc could play, well most of the 06 DA teams will play in galaxy cup! Also we all played some and will play some more friendlies during the summer with other DA teams, so there is really no urgent need to play in other tournaments...


I'm not aware if LAFC will be playing Galaxy.  We have been playing tons of friendlies.  If we go, cool.  If not, I'm good.  My family personally has two DA kids and the tourney format is draining on my wife and I.  Not asking for people feel bad for us, just saying.  Cerritos, Legends College Showcase and LA Premier College Showcase in 4 weeks.  

Galaxy Cup isn't for a bit. October 6-8, 2017


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## Zvezdas

Galaxy Cup is in August...


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## C.A.M.

Thanks


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## Legit_play

Apparently, this is an _All Hail the LAFC _thread, them being the new up and coming super team out there in the division. I have not been able to see them play as of yet so therefore I have no opinion on the team(s) but, what I do know is that they could have sent 1 team to Cerritos while sending the other one to Man City but, chose to only represent in the LA area. I did however witness that in the boys divisions at Man City Cup, 5 out of the 10 divisions in the younger brackets were represented by TFA in the finals and 4 out of the 5 collected top honors with the 06 repeating for back to back trophies. 03's came up short. 09's 08's 07's and 06's were crowned. That being said and TFA being denied extension squads sure does make a bunch of MLS and full DA club's mouth water as they will pull a majority of these extremely talented youngsters later down the line and claim that they were the ones who developed them and give no credit to the Club (TFA)  who basically set the proper foundation for their progression later down the line. Keep in mind that all things are great in the early stages but, if you've been around awhile, growing pains are still around the corner. Coach vs player personality conflicts, parent(s) believing their kid should play here rather than there or my kid doesn't start are just the cream of the crop type of problems that continually loom over  the competitive/developmental soccer community. Let's see how things pan out over the next few years and then analyze how the division compares. Personally I believe there are way too many clubs in this division thus spreading the talent very thin. The question for me is, how will the clubs like Legends and Murrieta Surf be? Will they be able to gather enough 06's? From what I understand, most clubs are pulling 07's to fill rosters. The pay to play DA clubs will certainly be at a huge disadvantage. I completely understand that this age is for development but, what kid wants to wake up on the weekend knowing that they're gonna get smeared on the pitch. I know from personal experience that , that is a recipe for a youngster to lose his/her interest and desire to play the beautiful game. Just praying that all the teams will be competitive but, that might be wishful thinking.


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## C.A.M.

I believe that having choices, options and different perspectives available for the kids matter.  We have experience with many "successful" clubs.  My kids have been thrown out with the bath water instead of being developed in the name of winning.  Still we persevered and focused on getting them good at what they do and they are both in the DA programs that fit them.  

LAFC impressed on the pitch this weekend.  They made some people not like how they do things and some people really like it, but that was all the "other stuff".  I heard both sides at the fields.  All I can say is atmosphere and overall club direction matter just as much as winning medals in our household and yes my kids have won a lot.   We all have to choose what's best for us. 

Since it hasn't been said I guess ALL HAIL TFA because they smashed.


----------



## Wez

Legit_play said:


> I did however witness that in the boys divisions at Man City Cup, 5 out of the 10 divisions in the younger brackets were represented by TFA in the finals and 4 out of the 5 collected top honors with the 06 repeating for back to back trophies.


Wow, gj TFA!


----------



## John Akii-Bua

Dargle said:


> ... it's notable that LA Galaxy's DA did not field a team in a tournament using the pre-DA loophole.


My understanding is that Galaxy doesn't have a full roster right now. They had signed up for Man City but dropped. Indeed, I heard they were actively poaching/recruiting at this weekend's tournaments.

(Tapping up players has a bad reputation, but I think it's entirely justifiable for a MLS academy club, and probably any funded DA, to let a kid's parents know that they're interested in him, given the gulf between an ordinary club and DA. Having said that though, it's a bit late in the tryout season for that, since coaches have built their teams, brackets have been applied for, and parents have signed checks. Also, one would think that Galaxy would have their pick of players after state cup, so it's not clear why they would still need to look for players. Finally, one would also hope that anyone they pick up now isn't just roster fodder for the one year of DA before the roster spots shrink up in u13.)


----------



## 3leches

John Akii-Bua said:


> My understanding is that Galaxy doesn't have a full roster right now. They had signed up for Man City but dropped. Indeed, I heard they were actively poaching/recruiting at this weekend's tournaments.
> 
> (Tapping up players has a bad reputation, but I think it's entirely justifiable for a MLS academy club, and probably any funded DA, to let a kid's parents know that they're interested in him, given the gulf between an ordinary club and DA. Having said that though, it's a bit late in the tryout season for that, since coaches have built their teams, brackets have been applied for, and parents have signed checks. Also, one would think that Galaxy would have their pick of players after state cup, so it's not clear why they would still need to look for players. Finally, one would also hope that anyone they pick up now isn't just roster fodder for the one year of DA before the roster spots shrink up in u13.)



From what I hear, they do not want to make the same mistake as the 04/05 squad and rush. They have more than enough players to field two teams as of today.


----------



## Legit_play

C.A.M. said:


> I believe that having choices, options and different perspectives available for the kids matter.  We have experience with many "successful" clubs.  My kids have been thrown out with the bath water instead of being developed in the name of winning.  Still we persevered and focused on getting them good at what they do and they are both in the DA programs that fit them.
> 
> LAFC impressed on the pitch this weekend.  They made some people not like how they do things and some people really like it, but that was all the "other stuff".  I heard both sides at the fields.  All I can say is atmosphere and overall club direction matter just as much as winning medals in our household and yes my kids have won a lot.   We all have to choose what's best for us.
> 
> Since it hasn't been said I guess ALL HAIL TFA because they smashed.


I completely agree with you CAM about having choices but, when they become limited by upper up decisions like ignoring proven younger player development in the early age clubs request for expansion, that is when I get a little erked. Then, really, what true choice do you have? I guess one could forget about DA and opt for an ODP path through to national recognition. There's also the college route as well.


----------



## C.A.M.

Legit_play said:


> I completely agree with you CAM about having choices but, when they become limited by upper up decisions like ignoring proven younger player development in the early age clubs request for expansion, that is when I get a little erked. Then, really, what true choice do you have? I guess one could forget about DA and opt for an ODP path through to national recognition. There's also the college route as well.


I have my own opinions on the particular club you are speaking of, but let's leave those out of this.  

DA has three prerequisites in the selection process that people tend not to be aware of.  These go way beyond winning.

1. How many older players has the club moved forward on the national scene.
2. How many A license coaches are in the organization.
3. What is the general atmosphere the club fosters  (positive, treating the players with respect during practices and games and placing player development before winning).

Another consideration is proximity to other DAs.  This really hurts TFA.  Greater Los Angeles boast the long standing MLS Club Galaxy, the newly formed, but very well funded MLS Club LAFC (they practice 10 minutes away from TFA) and up north the long standing LA Premier with deep roots in the community.  That's just the big 3.  

So while looking at who the competition for the DA program is/was, where do they all have an edge? Or to take a pessimistic view, where does TFA fall short.  Winning is important, but in the DA system it isn't everything they are looking for.  From what I have experienced, they would be the absolute best fit for the new boys ECNL division being created.


----------



## John Akii-Bua

C.A.M. said:


> Winning is important, but in the DA system it isn't everything they are looking for.


Is the implication that TFA values winning over development? I've heard people say that before but never really seen evidence of it, apart from the fact that they win a lot.


----------



## xav10

John Akii-Bua said:


> My understanding is that Galaxy doesn't have a full roster right now. They had signed up for Man City but dropped. Indeed, I heard they were actively poaching/recruiting at this weekend's tournaments.
> 
> (Tapping up players has a bad reputation, but I think it's entirely justifiable for a MLS academy club, and probably any funded DA, to let a kid's parents know that they're interested in him, given the gulf between an ordinary club and DA. Having said that though, it's a bit late in the tryout season for that, since coaches have built their teams, brackets have been applied for, and parents have signed checks. Also, one would think that Galaxy would have their pick of players after state cup, so it's not clear why they would still need to look for players. Finally, one would also hope that anyone they pick up now isn't just roster fodder for the one year of DA before the roster spots shrink up in u13.)


Much respect yto Olympian John Ali-


John Akii-Bua said:


> My understanding is that Galaxy doesn't have a full roster right now. They had signed up for Man City but dropped. Indeed, I heard they were actively poaching/recruiting at this weekend's tournaments.
> 
> (Tapping up players has a bad reputation, but I think it's entirely justifiable for a MLS academy club, and probably any funded DA, to let a kid's parents know that they're interested in him, given the gulf between an ordinary club and DA. Having said that though, it's a bit late in the tryout season for that, since coaches have built their teams, brackets have been applied for, and parents have signed checks. Also, one would think that Galaxy would have their pick of players after state cup, so it's not clear why they would still need to look for players. Finally, one would also hope that anyone they pick up now isn't just roster fodder for the one year of DA before the roster spots shrink up in u13.)


Not to go off topic, but I just want to acknowledge the presence of an Olympic Gold Medalist, John Akii-Bua, on this thread. Superstar soccer dad!


----------



## C.A.M.

John Akii-Bua said:


> Is the implication that TFA values winning over development? I've heard people say that before but never really seen evidence of it, apart from the fact that they win a lot.


That was our experience and not what we expected when we left FCGS.  It was a toxic environment for us and not anything like the DA environment we came from or are experiencing now at either one of my children's clubs.  

I know others that feel the same and others that disagree.  Personal preference I guess.


----------



## xav10

C.A.M. said:


> That was our experience and not what we expected when we left FCGS.  It was a toxic environment for us and not anything like the DA environment we came from or are experiencing now at either one of my children's clubs.
> 
> I know others that feel the same and others that disagree.  Personal preference I guess.


TFA is a one-man operation, permanently. It has never been able to progress with older teams and I assume US Soccer knew that when it denied him additional teams beyond U12.


----------



## John Akii-Bua

Ha, nicely done, xav10! Unfortunately he's been dead for 10 years, but he was a top bloke, lived a colorful life, and represented a wonderful (but flawed) country.


----------



## Distraction

TFA is PW's ego trip. It is 100% about winning. But he knows that you win by taking the best players and give them the best training. It is really good for soccer in southern California. It forces everyone who wants to compete to be better.


----------



## John Akii-Bua

Yikes, can of worms opened, I should have known better.

But full disclosure, I'm a TFA parent. So I'll dig in...



C.A.M. said:


> That was our experience and not what we expected when we left FCGS.  It was a toxic environment for us and not anything like the DA environment we came from or are experiencing now at either one of my children's clubs.
> 
> I know others that feel the same and others that disagree.  Personal preference I guess.


It's definitely an intense environment, and I've known good players who didn't fit in. The coach said as much when offering my son a spot. Toxic? I haven't seen that, but it wouldn't surprise me that things could get very dark if the team isn't in a good place.



xav10 said:


> TFA is a one-man operation, permanently. It has never been able to progress with older teams and I assume US Soccer knew that when it denied him additional teams beyond U12.


Without DA, they'll never make progress with olders, and they don't really try. It's very hard for him to keep those teams together with the MLS academies right there. Suppose USSF never created DA, and MLS teams didn't invest in youth set-ups -- is there much doubt that TFA would have a top club for olders in LA County?

It's a very tricky niche that TFA has chosen for itself. The players they get are all ambitious and want to play for the best, so they often end up leaving for MLS academies. In that location, there's no massive base of dues paying kids to form 2 or 3 teams at every age group, like what you can get at suburban clubs like Real S0cal, FCGS, Legends, LA Prem FC, etc. 



Distraction said:


> TFA is PW's ego trip. It is 100% about winning. But he knows that you win by taking the best players and give them the best training. It is really good for soccer in southern California. It forces everyone who wants to compete to be better.


Plenty of human achievement has come about through personal ambition for glory or success, so I don't have a big problem with that. I've found him honest, intelligent, and very open to ideas. He's always looking for ways to improve. True, he's a competitive guy and loves to win, but it's not enough for him just to win. He wants to win in a particular way. 

TFA's contributions to so-cal soccer go beyond just aggregating "the best" players and "the best" training. TFA values intelligent play. He really sets a standard with the curriculum.

The trip to Spain is a big deal -- I know many kids' first experience on a plane comes from TFA. That's awesome.

TFA isn't a MLS academy, so it's subject to the same market forces as every other youth club -- winning is the ultimate sign of quality. Without that success, it'd be harder to attract the best players. I totally accept that. However, I don't agree it's all about winning for TFA:

First, possession. It's right there in the club's name. How many clubs tell you right up front like that what they're all about? The club is fundamentally built around its possession curriculum. Clubs that are all about winning are tactically flexible, because they want to be able to play according to the kids they have. The curriculum attracts a lot of kids who want to play intelligent soccer.

Next, fitness: when my son was 7, he was on a team that ran two miles in the sand once a week. We won a lot of games by grinding teams down. There isn't excessive fitness work at TFA.

Most importantly, roster: I've also seen plenty of roster decisions at TFA that valued long term development over short term success.

I don't want to even get close to discussing individual kids, so for example, look at how they handled the 06s over the past couple of tryouts. Pre-AG change, they had two 05s and two 06s. So, they expected to create two 06s. Instead, a bunch of great players came out, which formed the bulk of the 06 A team. Instead of cutting a bunch of kids who had been with TFA for a while, they added a third team, allowing them to offer spots to the 06s from the previous year. Then, what I thought was especially classy was this spring: they could have leveraged the success of the A team for recruiting new players to the DA, but instead, they never held open tryouts, keeping almost all of the  DA roster spots for kids that had been at TFA already.

CAM, you talked about the benefit of having options and choices for kids, I can't understand why the USSF wouldn't be supporting TFA. It might be  different from an MLS academy or a traditional superclub, but it's done amazing things for soccer in so-cal, and there's every reason to think it could do a lot more as an academy.


----------



## Legit_play

John Akii-Bua said:


> Is the implication that TFA values winning over development? I've heard people say that before but never really seen evidence of it, apart from the fact that they win a lot.


I guess we have been real lucky in the sense that we do not feel that winning at all cost is what drives our team but, winning is the direct result of the extreme hard work the players put in to their training as well as their deep passion and knowledge of the sport. When calendar year implementation took place, we asked our son where he would like to tryout because we were unsure what direction our former club was headed for and he chose 2, 1 being his current club and he has not been disappointed by his decision after making the squad. All things were laid out in front from the beginning... Intense training at a high level and the results will speak for themselves. For us it was a good fit. Might not be the case for all.


----------



## C.A.M.

John Akii-Bua said:


> Yikes, can of worms opened, I should have known better.
> 
> But full disclosure, I'm a TFA parent. So I'll dig in...
> 
> 
> 
> It's definitely an intense environment, and I've known good players who didn't fit in. The coach said as much when offering my son a spot. Toxic? I haven't seen that, but it wouldn't surprise me that things could get very dark if the team isn't in a good place.
> 
> 
> 
> Without DA, they'll never make progress with olders, and they don't really try. It's very hard for him to keep those teams together with the MLS academies right there. Suppose USSF never created DA, and MLS teams didn't invest in youth set-ups -- is there much doubt that TFA would have a top club for olders in LA County?
> 
> It's a very tricky niche that TFA has chosen for itself. The players they get are all ambitious and want to play for the best, so they often end up leaving for MLS academies. In that location, there's no massive base of dues paying kids to form 2 or 3 teams at every age group, like what you can get at suburban clubs like Real S0cal, FCGS, Legends, LA Prem FC, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Plenty of human achievement has come about through personal ambition for glory or success, so I don't have a big problem with that. I've found him honest, intelligent, and very open to ideas. He's always looking for ways to improve. True, he's a competitive guy and loves to win, but it's not enough for him just to win. He wants to win in a particular way.
> 
> TFA's contributions to so-cal soccer go beyond just aggregating "the best" players and "the best" training. TFA values intelligent play. He really sets a standard with the curriculum.
> 
> The trip to Spain is a big deal -- I know many kids' first experience on a plane comes from TFA. That's awesome.
> 
> TFA isn't a MLS academy, so it's subject to the same market forces as every other youth club -- winning is the ultimate sign of quality. Without that success, it'd be harder to attract the best players. I totally accept that. However, I don't agree it's all about winning for TFA:
> 
> First, possession. It's right there in the club's name. How many clubs tell you right up front like that what they're all about? The club is fundamentally built around its possession curriculum. Clubs that are all about winning are tactically flexible, because they want to be able to play according to the kids they have. The curriculum attracts a lot of kids who want to play intelligent soccer.
> 
> Next, fitness: when my son was 7, he was on a team that ran two miles in the sand once a week. We won a lot of games by grinding teams down. There isn't excessive fitness work at TFA.
> 
> Most importantly, roster: I've also seen plenty of roster decisions at TFA that valued long term development over short term success.
> 
> I don't want to even get close to discussing individual kids, so for example, look at how they handled the 06s over the past couple of tryouts. Pre-AG change, they had two 05s and two 06s. So, they expected to create two 06s. Instead, a bunch of great players came out, which formed the bulk of the 06 A team. Instead of cutting a bunch of kids who had been with TFA for a while, they added a third team, allowing them to offer spots to the 06s from the previous year. Then, what I thought was especially classy was this spring: they could have leveraged the success of the A team for recruiting new players to the DA, but instead, they never held open tryouts, keeping almost all of the  DA roster spots for kids that had been at TFA already.
> 
> CAM, you talked about the benefit of having options and choices for kids, I can't understand why the USSF wouldn't be supporting TFA. It might be  different from an MLS academy or a traditional superclub, but it's done amazing things for soccer in so-cal, and there's every reason to think it could do a lot more as an academy.


Hey John.  I knew by the first post you were a TFA parent.  I also felt you were a very intelligent person, which you proved in your last post. That right there is the reason we have these forums and I appreciate it. 

In fact. I have been where you are.  Read some of my post in the G03 Academy forum and you will see more of my personal experience in these circumstances.  There is nothing like fighting against the world for a program you feel is benefiting your kid and his teammates who everyone hates on.

What I have to say is if you want to know why they aren't DA, you can't dig in.  You have to dig out, build a tall ladder and look at this with a new perspective.  

I have two kids in the DA so you know our family is ambitious.  Reality says my kids will be college players.  Most likely D1 because they are top players in So Cal.  That's if they are still playing after starting club soccer at the tender ages of 5.5 for her (14 next month) and  4.5 for him (11.5 in 4 days).  I mean they are pros at this high level, high intensity, high pressure soccer thing.  

Already these kids have survived burnout, disappointment, bad coaches, bad parenting (yes we all do that sometimes to) and injuries.  Both my kids have already had partial seasons (10 weeks+) lost to injuries to vital soccer parts (knee and legs).  Most of the friends they grew up with quit or were forced to bow out for whatever reason.  Already. 

Let's be honest.  Our kids are basically pro players. We can lie about it to ourselves, but soccer is their profession at this elite level.  For mine they are pro students also as they both excel and have fabulous grades and attitudes at school.  Balancing this is not easy and my 11 year old son and I were laughing about it Saturday.  He and I agreed this is hard work man.  Nearly impossible work we are years away from the finish line.  We know that.

Ok all that said, you tell me.  Is that the environment you see fostering a young professional into a healthy career as a veteran professional with 15 plus years of high level soccer experience?  Is that where you would choose to ply your trade as an adult?  Is that the way you want your management to treat you and your coworkers or you would want to treat your employees if you are an owner or manager? 

If all the clubs available were just like his current club, would you still want your young professional in this profession or would you change to something with a better work environment and higher quality of life?

This is real talk John.  Your kid is at TFA because he is a baller.  Both my kids are ballers.  No one is going to tell me different because I grew up with ballers and know them when I see them.  I know how to develop ballers and I'm doing it.  I have made some serious mistakes when starting out.  The worse was "digging in".  These kids aren't in our world we grew up in.  They have access to all the information out there.  My kids don't play in the neighborhood.  They cast a much wider net than that. 

When I say winning isn't everything, I mean it.  Especially at this age.  In fact, LOSING IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT AT THIS POINT OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT!  Put your kid on a losing team or mediocre team for a season and see if he/she still goes to each and every practice on time and work his/her butt off.  You want to know if your kid can make it?  See if they love the game then.  If yes, then reward them with a positive work environment so they can truly develop. 

The journey is enough stress.  And it is very, very, very long.  

I hope you and I can see our kids flourish together.


----------



## xav10

John Akii-Bua said:


> Yikes, can of worms opened, I should have known better.
> 
> But full disclosure, I'm a TFA parent. So I'll dig in...
> 
> 
> 
> It's definitely an intense environment, and I've known good players who didn't fit in. The coach said as much when offering my son a spot. Toxic? I haven't seen that, but it wouldn't surprise me that things could get very dark if the team isn't in a good place.
> 
> 
> 
> Without DA, they'll never make progress with olders, and they don't really try. It's very hard for him to keep those teams together with the MLS academies right there. Suppose USSF never created DA, and MLS teams didn't invest in youth set-ups -- is there much doubt that TFA would have a top club for olders in LA County?
> 
> It's a very tricky niche that TFA has chosen for itself. The players they get are all ambitious and want to play for the best, so they often end up leaving for MLS academies. In that location, there's no massive base of dues paying kids to form 2 or 3 teams at every age group, like what you can get at suburban clubs like Real S0cal, FCGS, Legends, LA Prem FC, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Plenty of human achievement has come about through personal ambition for glory or success, so I don't have a big problem with that. I've found him honest, intelligent, and very open to ideas. He's always looking for ways to improve. True, he's a competitive guy and loves to win, but it's not enough for him just to win. He wants to win in a particular way.
> 
> TFA's contributions to so-cal soccer go beyond just aggregating "the best" players and "the best" training. TFA values intelligent play. He really sets a standard with the curriculum.
> 
> The trip to Spain is a big deal -- I know many kids' first experience on a plane comes from TFA. That's awesome.
> 
> TFA isn't a MLS academy, so it's subject to the same market forces as every other youth club -- winning is the ultimate sign of quality. Without that success, it'd be harder to attract the best players. I totally accept that. However, I don't agree it's all about winning for TFA:
> 
> First, possession. It's right there in the club's name. How many clubs tell you right up front like that what they're all about? The club is fundamentally built around its possession curriculum. Clubs that are all about winning are tactically flexible, because they want to be able to play according to the kids they have. The curriculum attracts a lot of kids who want to play intelligent soccer.
> 
> Next, fitness: when my son was 7, he was on a team that ran two miles in the sand once a week. We won a lot of games by grinding teams down. There isn't excessive fitness work at TFA.
> 
> Most importantly, roster: I've also seen plenty of roster decisions at TFA that valued long term development over short term success.
> 
> I don't want to even get close to discussing individual kids, so for example, look at how they handled the 06s over the past couple of tryouts. Pre-AG change, they had two 05s and two 06s. So, they expected to create two 06s. Instead, a bunch of great players came out, which formed the bulk of the 06 A team. Instead of cutting a bunch of kids who had been with TFA for a while, they added a third team, allowing them to offer spots to the 06s from the previous year. Then, what I thought was especially classy was this spring: they could have leveraged the success of the A team for recruiting new players to the DA, but instead, they never held open tryouts, keeping almost all of the  DA roster spots for kids that had been at TFA already.
> 
> CAM, you talked about the benefit of having options and choices for kids, I can't understand why the USSF wouldn't be supporting TFA. It might be  different from an MLS academy or a traditional superclub, but it's done amazing things for soccer in so-cal, and there's every reason to think it could do a lot more as an academy.


Excellent analysis. It ignores the fatal flaw, however. To be a DA club, you need to grow with several, older teams... which takes more than one person. El Jefe has proven, for over 15 years, that he can't collaborate with others to grow his club. Hence the departures of Cherif, Kleiban, Danny Rogers, Erush, FCLA, etc. etc. It's his bat and ball and it goes from u9-12. And they're the best!


----------



## C.A.M.

xav10 said:


> Excellent analysis. It ignores the fatal flaw, however. To be a DA club, you need to grow with several, older teams... which takes more than one person. El Jefe has proven, for over 15 years, that he can't collaborate with others to grow his club. Hence the departures of Cherif, Kleiban, Danny Rogers, Erush, FCLA, etc. etc. It's his bat and ball and it goes from u9-12. And they're the best!


So essentially feeder club?


----------



## xav10

C.A.M. said:


> So essentially feeder club?


Whether by design or default, most definitely a feeder club. And those of us with '05 and '04 boys on other DA teams will enjoy watching all those excellent TFA players come out next week to try and take our kids' spots!


----------



## Wez

xav10 said:


> It's his bat and ball and it goes from u9-12. And they're the best!


They're among the best.


----------



## mahrez

For LAFC 06's there was no da bracket at Man City Cup offered past 04's and these are pre-season teams anyway prior to da registration in later Aug.    LAFC is partners with Slammers on the girls side and supporting the Cerritos tournament helps that. 

As far as TFA they have been a pleasure to watch when I had a chance, they play & execute the procession style very well. 

They are late to the da party in a very crowded market with several established clubs Golden State, Galaxy,  LAFC, LAUFA already in that terriority.  

There are a bunch of criteria to get more teams in da such as player development history: placement on nat teams, pools, etc.   Since they haven't had olders they don't have much to show there.  Staffing & and a well known director's are another factor they seem to fail short on.   If they can address these and some of the other 5 sections they would have a better shot at da expansion.


----------



## tylerdurden

TFA should have absolutely been granted DA status for their 04's. Over the years, IMO, they've developed more quality players than any other club in LA. Their older teams have more difficulty because when the kids hit the academy age, the kids bail for the DA system. It's a unfortunate symptom of their development success.

IIRC, the '03 Galaxy DA team has a bunch of former TFA players that used to make up TFAs unstoppable team (02-03 team before the age shift).


----------



## xav10

tylerdurden said:


> TFA should have absolutely been granted DA status for their 04's. Over the years, IMO, they've developed more quality players than any other club in LA. Their older teams have more difficulty because when the kids hit the academy age, the kids bail for the DA system. It's a unfortunate symptom of their development success.
> 
> IIRC, the '03 Galaxy DA team has a bunch of former TFA players that used to make up TFAs unstoppable team (02-03 team before the age shift).


They won't get olders ever. The kids leave because the coaches all leave and thus it has always been. The coaches go and thrive elsewhere with older teams (witness Brian Kleiban at Chivas and now Galaxy). Unlike Real So Cal, Arsenal, Pats, GS and other non-MLS clubs, all of whom have developed excellent older teams over the years and hence earned across-the-board DA status, TFA has never done so.


----------



## Wez

xav10 said:


> They won't get olders ever. The kids leave because the coaches all leave and thus it has always been. The coaches go and thrive elsewhere with older teams (witness Brian Kleiban at Chivas and now Galaxy). Unlike Real So Cal, Arsenal, Pats, GS and other non-MLS clubs, all of whom have developed excellent older teams over the years and hence earned across-the-board DA status, TFA has never done so.


All this talk about how strong TFA is with youngers and always losing out when the kids get older, really makes me want to know what they are doing so well early on and why they can't keep up the success as the kids age...


----------



## 3leches

IMO, TFA builds successful teams. Individual players ?? ... I'm not familiar enough with TFA to make a comment but I know a few of the older that played for TFA that are not the same players and have struggled to continue develop.


----------



## Dargle

Wez said:


> All this talk about how strong TFA is with youngers and always losing out when the kids get older, really makes me want to know what they are doing so well early on and why they can't keep up the success as the kids age...


The easy answer is to say that without DA at the older age groups, the kids leave TFA for DA clubs and therefore the kids who remain are, almost by definition, the weaker kids with fewer options.  And there is a lot of truth in that.  Just like there are a lot of regular clubs and great coaches out there who could get teams to superior heights if their kids didn't leave for other clubs perceived to be bigger names, better competition, etc.  But there is more than just that at work.

First of all, TFA is not exactly a "home-grown" club.  It assembles teams that include many great players from elsewhere and so the question of who really "developed" the player can come up even at these younger ages.  TFA 06, one of its strongest teams, had kids from as far away as Santa Monica and Simi Valley in its starting lineup last year, and it has two kids from Santa Monica this year.  Those kids were already accomplished players, recognized as the best or among the best on their teams, when they went to TFA.  TFA 07 was a decent team last year, but nothing special.  The success of the 06 group led a bunch of players from elsewhere to come out to the 07s.

Nevertheless, it's fair to say that these great players were attracted to TFA, at least in part, because of the coaching, the intense environment, and the constellation of strong players.  Money, however, also plays a role.  TFA offers fully funded top teams at the younger age groups (which they can do because of PW's fundraising, not because other teams in the club have wealthy parents).  There aren't that many pre-DA teams that are fully-funded, so that helps attract great players who need the subsidy, which in turn helps attract great players from wealthier areas who don't need the subsidy, but recognize that there are a bunch of great players in one place at the club.  So, even if TFA didn't do all that much to polish its diamonds, so-to-speak, just providing full funding at the younger age groups, while providing professional coaching, in a central location, and access to great tournaments, is going to give them a strategic advantage in recruiting and competing even if they didn't do anything else to develop the players.  

So, what do they do special with their teams?  In addition to the intangible benefits provided by recruiting great players and forcing them to compete hard for every minute of practice, TFA has a system.  It's part of the curriculum it sells to convince clubs to affiliate (and thereby pay funds to allow them to subsidize their teams).  It's primarily a tactical system for players that are already technically sound.  One of the most difficult things for younger age group kids is problem solving.  They freeze when faced with too many choices, they make the wrong decisions, etc.  TFA coaches give kids something like four things they should do from every position depending upon the situation.  Then they drill those things home until the kids get very good at them.  It's pretty formulaic, although I don't want to overstate that.  Lots of coaching at the younger ages is formulaic.  TFA just teaches the formulas better.  That, plus the fact that the kids are already very technically good, they have been conditioned well and hustle/compete etc, makes them very good compared to other younger teams. 

What happens when the kids get older?  Some of them build upon that initial foundation of tactical strategy and become very good.  Others never develop the ability to adapt and think on their own, especially when faced with teams that shut down their options.  It's made worse when they aren't with kids taught the same thing, though, since the options don't work if the your teammates aren't looking for them.  That isn't really a knock on TFA, per se.  Many, if not most, of the latter group of kids might never have had the ability to come up with the four tactical options if left to other coaching so it's not like they were really made worse for it.  And those kids who can build upon that initial foundation may have greatly accelerated their development by getting there a lot faster.  The bottom line, however, is other teams eventually catch up because (1) there are more fully-funded options or fewer teams and therefore less talent dispersion, and (2) because the advantage in tactical acumen is reduced as other kids get more mature and understand the game better.


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## Wez

Dargle said:


> The easy answer is to say that without DA at the older age groups, the kids leave TFA for DA clubs and therefore the kids who remain are, almost by definition, the weaker kids with fewer options.  And there is a lot of truth in that.  Just like there are a lot of regular clubs and great coaches out there who could get teams to superior heights if their kids didn't leave for other clubs perceived to be bigger names, better competition, etc.  But there is more than just that at work.
> 
> First of all, TFA is not exactly a "home-grown" club.  It assembles teams that include many great players from elsewhere and so the question of who really "developed" the player can come up even at these younger ages.  TFA 06, one of its strongest teams, had kids from as far away as Santa Monica and Simi Valley in its starting lineup last year, and it has two kids from Santa Monica this year.  Those kids were already accomplished players, recognized as the best or among the best on their teams, when they went to TFA.  TFA 07 was a decent team last year, but nothing special.  The success of the 06 group led a bunch of players from elsewhere to come out to the 07s.
> 
> Nevertheless, it's fair to say that these great players were attracted to TFA, at least in part, because of the coaching, the intense environment, and the constellation of strong players.  Money, however, also plays a role.  TFA offers fully funded top teams at the younger age groups (which they can do because of PW's fundraising, not because other teams in the club have wealthy parents).  There aren't that many pre-DA teams that are fully-funded, so that helps attract great players who need the subsidy, which in turn helps attract great players from wealthier areas who don't need the subsidy, but recognize that there are a bunch of great players in one place at the club.  So, even if TFA didn't do all that much to polish its diamonds, so-to-speak, just providing full funding at the younger age groups, while providing professional coaching, in a central location, and access to great tournaments, is going to give them a strategic advantage in recruiting and competing even if they didn't do anything else to develop the players.
> 
> So, what do they do special with their teams?  In addition to the intangible benefits provided by recruiting great players and forcing them to compete hard for every minute of practice, TFA has a system.  It's part of the curriculum it sells to convince clubs to affiliate (and thereby pay funds to allow them to subsidize their teams).  It's primarily a tactical system for players that are already technically sound.  One of the most difficult things for younger age group kids is problem solving.  They freeze when faced with too many choices, they make the wrong decisions, etc.  TFA coaches give kids something like four things they should do from every position depending upon the situation.  Then they drill those things home until the kids get very good at them.  It's pretty formulaic, although I don't want to overstate that.  Lots of coaching at the younger ages is formulaic.  TFA just teaches the formulas better.  That, plus the fact that the kids are already very technically good, they have been conditioned well and hustle/compete etc, makes them very good compared to other younger teams.
> 
> What happens when the kids get older?  Some of them build upon that initial foundation of tactical strategy and become very good.  Others never develop the ability to adapt and think on their own, especially when faced with teams that shut down their options.  It's made worse when they aren't with kids taught the same thing, though, since the options don't work if the your teammates aren't looking for them.  That isn't really a knock on TFA, per se.  Many, if not most, of the latter group of kids might never have had the ability to come up with the four tactical options if left to other coaching so it's not like they were really made worse for it.  And those kids who can build upon that initial foundation may have greatly accelerated their development by getting there a lot faster.  The bottom line, however, is other teams eventually catch up because (1) there are more fully-funded options or fewer teams and therefore less talent dispersion, and (2) because the advantage in tactical acumen is reduced as other kids get more mature and understand the game better.


Wow, that was a lot of info. to chew on, thanks.


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## Legit_play

xav10 said:


> They won't get olders ever. The kids leave because the coaches all leave and thus it has always been. The coaches go and thrive elsewhere with older teams (witness Brian Kleiban at Chivas and now Galaxy). Unlike Real So Cal, Arsenal, Pats, GS and other non-MLS clubs, all of whom have developed excellent older teams over the years and hence earned across-the-board DA status, TFA has never done so.


I think it's the other way around, they work so hard to build a good/great team and then have them dismantled with the lure of  DA status. If the DA Status was already there then all the drama would have been avoided. How are those clubs like Arsenal, Pats and GS  doing now? It's amazing how Arsenal can keep their DA status. LAFC certainly threw a huge wrench in the mix and their success will have a major impact on those other non-MLS DA clubs.


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## Legit_play

Dargle said:


> The easy answer is to say that without DA at the older age groups, the kids leave TFA for DA clubs and therefore the kids who remain are, almost by definition, the weaker kids with fewer options.  And there is a lot of truth in that.  Just like there are a lot of regular clubs and great coaches out there who could get teams to superior heights if their kids didn't leave for other clubs perceived to be bigger names, better competition, etc.  But there is more than just that at work.
> 
> First of all, TFA is not exactly a "home-grown" club.  It assembles teams that include many great players from elsewhere and so the question of who really "developed" the player can come up even at these younger ages.  TFA 06, one of its strongest teams, had kids from as far away as Santa Monica and Simi Valley in its starting lineup last year, and it has two kids from Santa Monica this year.  Those kids were already accomplished players, recognized as the best or among the best on their teams, when they went to TFA.  TFA 07 was a decent team last year, but nothing special.  The success of the 06 group led a bunch of players from elsewhere to come out to the 07s.
> 
> Nevertheless, it's fair to say that these great players were attracted to TFA, at least in part, because of the coaching, the intense environment, and the constellation of strong players.  Money, however, also plays a role.  TFA offers fully funded top teams at the younger age groups (which they can do because of PW's fundraising, not because other teams in the club have wealthy parents).  There aren't that many pre-DA teams that are fully-funded, so that helps attract great players who need the subsidy, which in turn helps attract great players from wealthier areas who don't need the subsidy, but recognize that there are a bunch of great players in one place at the club.  So, even if TFA didn't do all that much to polish its diamonds, so-to-speak, just providing full funding at the younger age groups, while providing professional coaching, in a central location, and access to great tournaments, is going to give them a strategic advantage in recruiting and competing even if they didn't do anything else to develop the players.
> 
> So, what do they do special with their teams?  In addition to the intangible benefits provided by recruiting great players and forcing them to compete hard for every minute of practice, TFA has a system.  It's part of the curriculum it sells to convince clubs to affiliate (and thereby pay funds to allow them to subsidize their teams).  It's primarily a tactical system for players that are already technically sound.  One of the most difficult things for younger age group kids is problem solving.  They freeze when faced with too many choices, they make the wrong decisions, etc.  TFA coaches give kids something like four things they should do from every position depending upon the situation.  Then they drill those things home until the kids get very good at them.  It's pretty formulaic, although I don't want to overstate that.  Lots of coaching at the younger ages is formulaic.  TFA just teaches the formulas better.  That, plus the fact that the kids are already very technically good, they have been conditioned well and hustle/compete etc, makes them very good compared to other younger teams.
> 
> What happens when the kids get older?  Some of them build upon that initial foundation of tactical strategy and become very good.  Others never develop the ability to adapt and think on their own, especially when faced with teams that shut down their options.  It's made worse when they aren't with kids taught the same thing, though, since the options don't work if the your teammates aren't looking for them.  That isn't really a knock on TFA, per se.  Many, if not most, of the latter group of kids might never have had the ability to come up with the four tactical options if left to other coaching so it's not like they were really made worse for it.  And those kids who can build upon that initial foundation may have greatly accelerated their development by getting there a lot faster.  The bottom line, however, is other teams eventually catch up because (1) there are more fully-funded options or fewer teams and therefore less talent dispersion, and (2) because the advantage in tactical acumen is reduced as other kids get more mature and understand the game better.


Shout out to Dargle, thanks for all your informative incite and thanks for having all your ducks in a row before you post. You already know where I stand and at every opportunity that presents itself, I'll stir the pot...lol Devil's Advocate stuff.


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## xav10

Legit_play said:


> I think it's the other way around, they work so hard to build a good/great team and then have them dismantled with the lure of  DA status. If the DA Status was already there then all the drama would have been avoided. How are those clubs like Arsenal, Pats and GS  doing now? It's amazing how Arsenal can keep their DA status. LAFC certainly threw a huge wrench in the mix and their success will have a major impact on those other non-MLS DA clubs.


Nope. The other clubs like Real So Cal and GS are fine because they grew a club. TFA never has because it's a one-man show. Everybody who could help it grow leaves.


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## xav10

GhettoVet said:


> lol@Real SoCal
> 
> You can take any of the coaches that left TFA to Real SoCal and still couldn't make that shitty club great.


How do you judge? By D1 or pro players? Real So Cal is way ahead of most...


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## Wez

GhettoVet said:


> If the objective is to produce top shelf players it would require the dismantling of the play for play system they adhere too.


While I understand the problems with the system, how else would you connect players with professional coaching?


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## WillJohn

I saw how good the TFA06 boys were last year and maybe I missed it here but did any of them go to DAs?

Thanks Dargle for the info about TFA.  I was wondering what makes TFA so successful and you gave a pretty good explanation.


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## Legit_play

WillJohn said:


> I saw how good the TFA06 boys were last year and maybe I missed it here but did any of them go to DAs?
> 
> Thanks Dargle for the info about TFA.  I was wondering what makes TFA so successful and you gave a pretty good explanation.


All of them are playing for TFA's DA squad, their single year DA was not taken away, they were not granted additional years. A couple of kids went elsewhere


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## soccerstud

...and the other one lost to Pats in the final


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## soccerstud

in regards to the TFA comment, looks like the trend continues.  The schedules for next year 2017-2018 USSDA are out....no TFA for ages 2005 and older. They are only listed at U12 (2006). Looks like their current 2004 team will dismantle again.


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## soccerstud

disregard my last two posts...didn't read far enough, all was already said.


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## Dr. Richard Hurtz

So where are all the scouts..?  Out of 30 games I saw them maybe at 6 of them. Just wondering.


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## Shottas

Any updates on this age group ? With no scores being posted tough to tell who is doing well, okay, struggling. Any feedback will be appreciated....


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## C.A.M.

Not sure myself.  Too busy running around to practice and games.  We have done well.  Split games with TFA.  Second game they were way more intense. I love their main striker. His dad and I are friends and it's nice to see him doing well.  Hopefully next game versus us not so well. .

Both our teams beat Legends last weekend and I don't think their parents believed the press clippings on us.   Some of them really dug into their kids after the game for not trying and that simply wasn't the case.  

I mention that because I remember being that way.  Looking back I can see how it can really stunt a players growth.  Glad we made the conscious decision to evaluate the game play differently and focus on personal responsibility and growth over just results.  

Overall, it's nice to see talented kids put in the work everyday and for it to pay off.  I only get to games now and seeing my kid improve leaps and bounds every game is really good for my nerves. 

We play Pat's Irvine this weekend.  I haven't seen anything on them or heard anything about them.  Should be interesting.


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