# Who doesn't need a goal keeper?



## timbuck (Apr 21, 2017)

Seems that every age group is filled with requests for goal keepers. 
What happened to the kid(s) that we're playing in goal for you last season?


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## socalkdg (Apr 21, 2017)

I've noticed two trends for the girls.  They decide to stop playing the position(or quit soccer), or they move to another team.   I think you can take a field player and move them around to another position, but not for the keeper.  Many teams only keep one on a team as well(or can only find one).   I also notice that many teams don't play back to the keeper thus the game can be boring for some of them.   When I watched the UCLA vs Seattle game,  the Seattle defense went back to the keeper every time they had the ball, from anywhere on the field.   Keeping the player active as a sweeper /  keeper would help make the game more interesting for many of the girls that play there.


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## SocalSoccerMom (Apr 21, 2017)

I'm seeing more and more younger teams asking/carrying 2 keepers.


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## LASTMAN14 (Apr 21, 2017)

At the younger age groups I suspect many players or their parents realize that the goal is not for them. Therefore pulling them the following year.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Apr 21, 2017)

Goal keepers do appear to be in short supply and high demand right now.  It is a demanding position physically and mentally.  In speaking with one of my daughters keeper coaches last year, he explained to me that none of the clubs no what to do with goalies, and I think to some extent he is right.  Most club directors do not appear to be goalies, and don't appreciate what is involved in developing a goalie.  It is a very long road with lots of potholes.  

I can tell you why my daughter changed clubs, but not on a public forum.


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## watfly (Apr 21, 2017)

Seems like a lot in the 2007 age group particularly at Tier 1.  My son's 2007 team (tier 1...whatever that actually means at this age) lost its goalie, who is a 2008, to another team after committing (due to extenuating circumstances).  So right now we are without a dedicated goalie, but we do have two field players that are great fill-ins.  I sometimes question the benefits of having a full time keeper at this age.  Of course, for selfish reasons I wouldn't want my son to volunteer to play keeper.


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## Dargle (Apr 21, 2017)

At many of the 2007-2008 age group teams, they didn't have a full-time goalkeeper last year and now they want one who is interested in specializing in the position.  At the 2006 age group, the start of U12 Development Academy teams on the Boys' side means that some teams have lost their goalkeepers to DA and even if they don't need one because they just moved the GKs all up a notch in their club, the lowest team needs one now or the club where their GK came from now needs one.  At the 2005 and up age groups where they are 11 v. 11, the expanded rosters allow them to have two GKs and they would like two if possible.

Plus, many coaches and non-GK parents hold their young goalkeepers to impossible standards that no other player on the team is expected to meet (i.e., more than perfection, but savior for the imperfections of the other players on the team) and they are impatient instead of supportive and encouraging watching a young GK develop.  Even if they can't find a better GK to replace last year's GK, that old GK gets the hint and leaves for a better team/situation (of which there are many) or leaves the goal altogether.


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## jsmaxwell (Apr 21, 2017)

15 kids on a roster. If any of 14 of them quit or change clubs, so what? They are largely interchangeable across positions at least temporarily. If the GK leaves, most likely no one on the roster is stepping into the position, so you have to find one.  You see various posts for adding an "impact" player for field players all the time, but they are non-specific. You aren't going to see a post that says, "Looking for an "impact" player to exclusively play left back." Also, a team can operate with a less than full roster, but you can't run with no one playing GK.  BTW, this isn't new. When my kids started playing keeper, olders parents told me right away that she would always have a spot and be in demand. They were recruited right from the start and not because they were superstars. This included more than one offer to play for free on a good team.


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## Gkeeperdad (Apr 21, 2017)

By sheer accident and ignorance my daughter played her formative years with a mid level team filled with nice girls many of whom had other interests and activities.  Despite being regularly recruited she never wanted to leave "her girls".   I think that helped her develop her confidence without any real pressure.  When she did finally change teams and move up to Tier 1 there was an adjustment to the speed and ability of the more talented strikers, but her belief in herself that was fostered in such a positive environment carried her through.  While I'm sure there are a few drawbacks to this roundabout route,  burnout from the constant pressure to excel and advance isn't one of them.


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## 2keepersandadefender (Apr 21, 2017)

Being the mom of two keepers (2000 Girl and 2004 Boy) has been filled with many challenges over the years.  Both my kids were dedicated keepers from the beginning.  My girl got her lip busted by a cleat her first time at State Cup.  I had her stop the bleeding with ice and get back into the game for the last few minutes.  I have held my breath countless times and been amazed by saves.  The position can be exciting, especially when the back line utilizes the keeper as a defender as well.  It can be boring for younger goalies, especially if their team is very good.  I actually preferred (when my kids were younger) the times they had seasons where their team was the underdog as it really helped to develop them and keep them interested in the game.  They also had to learn to accept loss and not focus on the goal that just went in, but rather the next save that they were about to make.


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## Goalie1310 (Apr 21, 2017)

I have two keepers g2006 and b2007. This is what I have learned over the last 7 years of soccer. First most young keepers I know including my two kids enjoy chasing the ball around as a field player but as many of you know most teams don't have a goalie or only (one)gk and here is where the problem starts and for some at a very young age. As a gk parent that has never played soccer or even really watched soccer I found it very easy to take advice and learn from what we consider very good gk trainers in our kids lives. This first one is very important so listen up They have to have FUN! FUN! FUN! Parents this is something you have to make sure of  otherwise a good or even a great keeper for their young age will start to get burnt out. 2nd talk to the coach let it be known what your expectations are and find out what their philosophy is on this subject. Find a team that has a goalie most likely they both want to play half and half. We don't do any goalie training at team practice we do field training with team. Listen to your kids and what they want to do on the field. My kids only like to play keeper full time in tournaments We make sure that both kids get field time (forward,mid,defender)no exceptions in all other games if this is what your kid wants this is a must you will hear it all from coaches and parents.This game is so important the team we are playing is really good such and such is out we need them in the box again I'm talking about u little kids in my humble opinion all kids should be learning every position until 12-13 or so. Both of my kids I've been told can play multiple positions at a competitive level but they took to gk very young they liked it weren't afraid liked the gear had their parents support but if your kid is even somewhat good between the sticks well that's when things get complicated because as much as we talk about development winning is a huge factor for many sometimes at the cost of your keepers development and mental love for the game. Gk is not just diving around but a very mental game they need to understand all the positions and the game they also need to have excellent foot work because as they move up in competition the ball will be passed back plenty. We listen to our gk trainers who you can check out and ask questions go get trained whatever Dm me on Instagram @soccerkeeper1310 for more information of trainers in LA/OC  and now one of our trainers plays for Hawaii so if there She is great. I hope this is helpful and in no way the only way do what's best for your kid enjoy watching enjoy the ride.


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## Mystery Train (Apr 21, 2017)

Dargle said:


> Plus, many coaches and non-GK parents hold their young goalkeepers to impossible standards that no other player on the team is expected to meet (i.e., more than perfection, but savior for the imperfections of the other players on the team) and they are impatient instead of supportive and encouraging watching a young GK develop.  Even if they can't find a better GK to replace last year's GK, that old GK gets the hint and leaves for a better team/situation (of which there are many) or leaves the goal altogether.


OMG, I can't agree with this enough.  Especially at the younger levels, it seems like every coach's favorite keeper is the one they don't have.  So many youngers coaches and parents are obsessed with winning tophies, they have zero understanding of what it takes to develop a quality GK, and so if your kid isn't armed with an excess of self-confidence or is impervious to pressure, it can destroy their desire.  Luckily, my daughter seemed to enjoy the uniqueness of her role enough to fight through all that other stuff, but it still amuses her to this day how many coaches will try to recruit her over their current keepers because they're always trying to upgrade the position rather than develop the one they have.  We learned over time that most coaches and clubs are 100% clueless when it comes to keeper development.


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## jsmaxwell (Apr 21, 2017)

I found it helpful for my kids confidence to repeatedly tell them (and anyone else) that they can only make or miss a save after every other player on the field has failed.


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## Anomaly (Apr 21, 2017)

I remember in the rec league when GK's were introduced, my DD would not stop bugging us and the coach to let her play in the goal. We thought she was crazy because she was scoring the most goals on her team and was the "star". She played every once in a while until she started club. On the field, she played everything from left back to forward. She played an odd game or two from ages 11-13 but didn't decide to specialize in the goalkeeper position until just before turning 14. And even though she's 17 now, we are still on the verge of having a heart attack every time she dives at the feet of a forward. We're just happy she's happy and thriving in the position.

Everyone's situation is different. It just seems like specialization is starting so much earlier nowadays. And sometimes, intentionally and unintentionally, kids are discouraged from playing the position like mine was. After going through the process, I say let every kid try out every position. If they don't like one, take note of it but make them try it again so others have a chance at playing everything else too. Playing every position ultimately helps a goalkeeper in the long-run, as they'll learn how every position thinks and why they do the things they do. Makes your kid a smarter player.


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## jrcaesar (Apr 21, 2017)

Goalie1310 said:


> *in my humble opinion all kids should be learning every position until 12-13 or so*.


Great discussion all in all, especially this point.

U10-U13 teams who are _looking for 1 defender_ are being done a disservice by their coach. Kids change, abilities change, and a coach looking really out for development should be moving children around each fall->spring season anyway. Just bring in good kids and work with them.


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## Chustsoccer (Apr 21, 2017)

Hail to the keeper! Agree with all of the statements so far but will add this. Most kids are put into goal out of need not desire. When a striker (field player)misses a shot or loses the ball, we hear applause, good effort, unlucky, or get it back.. A keeper takes the blame for every goal. Right or wrong that is their reality. They are toughest on themselves taking each goal personally. I have watched my kid leave games after a penalty shootouts were we had 3 players miss and he stopped a few blame himself. I have seen him and other keeper keep a team in the game or make the difference in a win and all the credit will go to the striker that scored.You have to have some thick skin to be a keeper! Parents and coaches don't help as they re-enforce the issue. The whispers from parents on the sideline or at practice is phenomenal. Yes we can hear you even in another language. A keeper will go to a 1.5  our keeper training and then make it to a regular practice and get scolded for not keeping pace. Ever been to a keeper practice, exhausting.I have seen academy level players play a poor ball back to their keeper run into the keeper resulting in a score and the keeper is blamed. You also have to be a bit crazy to play the position. Who voluntarily puts their head and face in front of a  flying foot or ball. I see kids coming in hot and cleat up on the keeper or stomp them when the are on the ground ( I have a great x-ray show an elbow bruise with the manufacture of the cleat). I tried talking my kid out of playing the position to no avail. Oh well, I went 1 of 2 as the other is a field player. Over the years he has come to understand that you will never get credit for a win and every loss is your fault. It is part of the position. This not a compliant, it just contributes why keepers stop or are hard to find. I realize that for every knucklehead that makes a derogatory statement their are those are positive with their comments. Kids focus on the negative until we get ice cream or head to the beach. Simply put, he loves to play the position and usually plays for multiple teams in the spring as a guest. It is the Rodney Dangerfield position of soccer, no respect. I admire any kid that is willing to put themselves on the field and even more when they put themselves between the posts. See my favorite goalie Scott Sterling on youtube.


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## Anomaly (Apr 21, 2017)

Chustsoccer said:


> Hail to the keeper! Agree with all of the statements so far but will add this. Most kids are put into goal out of need not desire. When a striker (field player)misses a shot or loses the ball, we hear applause, good effort, unlucky, or get it back.. A keeper takes the blame for every goal. Right or wrong that is their reality. They are toughest on themselves taking each goal personally. I have watched my kid leave games after a penalty shootouts were we had 3 players miss and he stopped a few blame himself. I have seen him and other keeper keep a team in the game or make the difference in a win and all the credit will go to the striker that scored.You have to have some thick skin to be a keeper! Parents and coaches don't help as they re-enforce the issue. The whispers from parents on the sideline or at practice is phenomenal. Yes we can hear you even in another language. A keeper will go to a 1.5  our keeper training and then make it to a regular practice and get scolded for not keeping pace. Ever been to a keeper practice, exhausting.I have seen academy level players play a poor ball back to their keeper run into the keeper resulting in a score and the keeper is blamed. You also have to be a bit crazy to play the position. Who voluntarily puts their head and face in front of a  flying foot or ball. I see kids coming in hot and cleat up on the keeper or stomp them when the are on the ground ( I have a great x-ray show an elbow bruise with the manufacture of the cleat). I tried talking my kid out of playing the position to no avail. Oh well, I went 1 of 2 as the other is a field player. Over the years he has come to understand that you will never get credit for a win and every loss is your fault. It is part of the position. This not a compliant, it just contributes why keepers stop or are hard to find. I realize that for every knucklehead that makes a derogatory statement their are those are positive with their comments. Kids focus on the negative until we get ice cream or head to the beach. Simply put, he loves to play the position and usually plays for multiple teams in the spring as a guest. It is the Rodney Dangerfield position of soccer, no respect. I admire any kid that is willing to put themselves on the field and even more when they put themselves between the posts. See my favorite goalie Scott Sterling on youtube.


"Goalkeepers need an element of insanity." — Oliver Kahn


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## gkrent (Apr 21, 2017)

Dargle said:


> *Plus, many coaches and non-GK parents hold their young goalkeepers to impossible standards that no other player on the team is expected to meet (i.e., more than perfection, but savior for the imperfections of the other players on the team) and they are impatient instead of supportive and encouraging watching a young GK develop.*  Even if they can't find a better GK to replace last year's GK, that old GK gets the hint and leaves for a better team/situation (of which there are many) or leaves the goal altogether.


bingo


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## socalkdg (Apr 21, 2017)

Anomaly said:


> "Goalkeepers need an element of insanity." — Oliver Kahn


Makes life around the house a bit difficult though.


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## Chustsoccer (Apr 21, 2017)

gkrent said:


> bingo


I will second that BINGO

Plus, many coaches and non-GK parents hold their young goalkeepers to impossible standards that no other player on the team is expected to meet (i.e., more than perfection, but savior for the imperfections of the other players on the team) and they are impatient instead of supportive and encouraging watching a young GK develop. Even if they can't find a better GK to replace last year's GK, that old GK gets the hint and leaves for a better team/situation (of which there are many) or leaves the goal altogether.


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## Grace T. (Apr 21, 2017)

So great to hear all the keeper love in this thread. As the parent of a newly minted club keeper, its good to hear everyone's fears, hopes, struggles and stories are similar. I myself hate that DS is following in my footsteps between the sticks, but your stories and info have helped me find ways to support him. And if he grows in the position, it's nice to know he'll be wanted.


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## timbuck (Apr 21, 2017)

Here's a few things that I've seen:
1.  At the youngest age (u8-u10) the best keeper is also the best field player.  They are the aggressive kid that has no fear.  They are good at any sport they play. The coach likes them in goal because it gives them a good chance to win, but also plays them on the field because they dominate on the field too.   The parents don't want this kid being a full time goalie. 
2.  Or at these ages, a coach will rotate several players in goal.  The lose some games because of it. Parents get upset and say "if we just had a full time keeper, we'd never lose."  
3.  Or during the first few weeks of a new season, the coach says "who wants to play in goal?"  And 3 kids raise their hand.  Not really knowing what it means to play in goal.  They either really like the position or they don't really care for running or they are trying to be a team player.  One of these kids winds up being a full time goalie halfway through the season but she doesn't really like it.  The coach either doesn't know or doesn't care and keeps her in goal.  The parents get mad because they spent $2,500 for their kid to move 14 yards every weekend, while they drive 30-60 minutes to watch her stand around in a long sleeved shirt for 85% of the game. 

There are a few kids out there that are goalies from day 1.  This is maybe 5% of the youth soccer population.  These kids should be nurtured and trained as goal keepers (unless their parents are both 5'1".  Genetics won't be helpful once that kid is 15).   For the rare teams that find these rare players, you are lucky and can and should do whatever you can to train and retain them. 

The rest of the players/teams should be rotating at least 3 or 4 keepers each week.  Unless a kid screams and runs away at the notion of playing on goal (this is my oldest daughter-04) each kid on a 7v7 or 9v9 team should spend a little bit of time between the sticks. 
My middle daughter (07) likes to play in goal but goes back and forth on it. One week, she wants to be a full time keeper.  The next week, she never wants to play in goal again.  I'm glad she has a coach that rotates and listens to the kids.


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## Grace T. (Apr 21, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Here's a few things that I've seen:
> 1.  At the youngest age (u8-u10) the best keeper is also the best field player.  They are the aggressive kid that has no fear.  They are good at any sport they play. The coach likes them in goal because it gives them a good chance to win, but also plays them on the field because they dominate on the field too.   The parents don't want this kid being a full time goalie.
> .


This is definitely true on our 08 team with all 3 keepers, DS being the weakest field player of the 3. DS is also the only one of the 3 who regularly attends goalkeeper academy. For that reason even on games he gets blamed for, largely because there are skills he hadn't learned yet (like the high dive, crazy Ivan, or high tip), the temptation as he grows will be to keep him in goal full time. I suspect I'll have to be very vigilant, given all your advice, with the knowledge that as he grows he'll be ever more in demand, because I do want to give him a well rounded education. The keeper coaches have been great and include agility training that cross trains his field skills.


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## 2keepersandadefender (Apr 21, 2017)

My two crazy kids love to play between the sticks and don't have a desire to be anywhere else.  My daughter is 6'0" and my 13 year old son just passed me at 5'6".  I have never talked them into the position but I have tried to talk them out of it a time or two.  It is exciting to watch an amazing save and just as rewarding to teach your child to not take a goal personally but to learn from it.


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## keepersmom (Apr 21, 2017)

For our keeper, we always say soccer is the metaphor. This thread really spells out how and why, and eloquently, so thank you. 

I don't know much about soccer at all, so truly my daughter chose the keeper position for herself. I want her to dream whatever she wants for herself, but I also want to steer her in a realistic direction. So here's my question: What kind of college future is out there for a very hard-working but genetically-doomed-to-be-short keeper?


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## jsmaxwell (Apr 21, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> This is definitely true on our 08 team with all 3 keepers, DS being the weakest field player of the 3. DS is also the only one of the 3 who regularly attends goalkeeper academy. For that reason even on games he gets blamed for, largely because there are skills he hadn't learned yet (like the high dive, crazy Ivan, or high tip), the temptation as he grows will be to keep him in goal full time. I suspect I'll have to be very vigilant, given all your advice, with the knowledge that as he grows he'll be ever more in demand, because I do want to give him a well rounded education. The keeper coaches have been great and include agility training that cross trains his field skills.


As many others have said, going full time keeper early isn't the best for most kids. Even so, it can work out. I suggest that the ideal situation for such a kid is with a team that plays it back aggressively. In the years you are on the small field, there is no reason the keeper can't come to the center circle and play sweeper when the team has the ball in the other half. Not only is this good for their confidence and foot skills, but also it is absolutely spectacular to watch the parents of opponents who are used to kicking the ball down the field past the defense. A high keeper using their feet will utterly baffle them and make them scream like baboons about an open goal. Hilarious.

The cherry on top is when your keeper learn to take one of those long balls, dribble it into the penalty area and pick it up. The reaction is priceless.

Any little kid who spends their time standing in the goal area for the whole game isn't having fun and isn't getting trained.


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## Sparky9 (Apr 21, 2017)

I don't think enough is done to protect keepers during games as they get older. Keeper from our last team had several concussions and quit this year. She got plowed over hard about every 4thor 5th game.  Saw one yellow card against a striker in about 60 games we played.
Wonder if anyone collects stats on frequency of injuries by position?

My background is hockey and there are written and unwritten rules about touching a goalie. If you do and the refs don't call it the defenders would take care of you next opportunity if not then. Not really a part of this sport.not suggesting it should be but it drives me crazy to watch.  A good cross check to the back does make you think twice though.  GO DUCKS!


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## Gkeeperdad (Apr 21, 2017)

_I don't think enough is done to protect keepers during games as they get older. Keeper from our last team had several concussions and quit this year. She got plowed over hard about every 4th or 5th game. Saw one yellow card against a striker in about 60 games we played.                                                                                                                                   _
Completely agree with this.  At the last tournament during a direct kick, an opposing player seemed to target her as she went into the air to punch it away.  I was shocked both at the intent and the lack of a penalty or card.


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## socalkdg (Apr 22, 2017)

jsmaxwell said:


> As many others have said, going full time keeper early isn't the best for most kids. Even so, it can work out. I suggest that the ideal situation for such a kid is with a team that plays it back aggressively. In the years you are on the small field, there is no reason the keeper can't come to the center circle and play sweeper when the team has the ball in the other half. Not only is this good for their confidence and foot skills, but also it is absolutely spectacular to watch the parents of opponents who are used to kicking the ball down the field past the defense. A high keeper using their feet will utterly baffle them and make them scream like baboons about an open goal. Hilarious.
> 
> The cherry on top is when your keeper learn to take one of those long balls, dribble it into the penalty area and pick it up. The reaction is priceless.
> 
> Any little kid who spends their time standing in the goal area for the whole game isn't having fun and isn't getting trained.


Love this.   

Unique situation for us is my daughter is the fastest player on her U12 team.   Track team fast, so it is always fun to see her out run most through balls and clear them way outside the 18 before the striker can get to it.  No matter how much a team says they play possession, every team is tempted to kick one over the top when they see their striker covered tightly at midfield.  Just finished her first full year at keeper, so she is still getting used to figuring out what she can and can't get to so it occasionally leads to very exciting(and tense) moments.   With every girl returning next year and all of them having great parents, it makes for a very stress free environment if she does let one go through.  Every practice has short sided scrimmage at the end with all players required to play support and back to the keepers, so it is great to find coaches that play this way.

Funny thing today we were supposed to have a friendly but the times got crisscrossed.  So they practiced and then had small side scrimmage.  She made one bad pass on a ball passed back to her that resulted in a goal and one of the girls said something to tease her, so mine lets her and the rest of the team know that "hey, you all make bad passes during the game, I make one and something bad happens, so give me a break", all with a big smile on her face.   She gets that she has a smaller measure of error and seems to thrive on it.  Thankfully all the parents love her and would never question any of her plays.   I always applaud good plays by the other keeper.  Such a unique position that I appreciate good plays from either team.


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## MWN (Apr 22, 2017)

watfly said:


> Seems like a lot in the 2007 age group particularly at Tier 1.  My son's 2007 team (tier 1...whatever that actually means at this age) lost its goalie, who is a 2008, to another team after committing (due to extenuating circumstances).  So right now we are without a dedicated goalie, but we do have two field players that are great fill-ins.  I sometimes question the benefits of having a full time keeper at this age.  Of course, for selfish reasons I wouldn't want my son to volunteer to play keeper.


Selfishly, I love the fact my son is a keeper.  Its a position he chose because he understood that it is one of the most important on the field, it requires a mental maturity that few kids have.  I love the fact that the boy has a better chance (versus field players) of getting a full scholarship if he keeps at it and continues to distinguish himself.  He is a 2003 playing up on a 2002 team and happens to be 5'11 @ 13.

I will say that I think its a crying shame that any team with U12's and under don't carry at least 2 if not 3 keepers.  Play those kids in the field half the time and between the sticks the other half.  Create soccer players.  For keepers puberty is a cruel thing and genetics dictate the future for keepers more than any other quality.


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## pewpew (Apr 23, 2017)

jsmaxwell said:


> I found it helpful for my kids confidence to repeatedly tell them (and anyone else) that they can only make or miss a save after every other player on the field has failed.


^^^^^This
The ball gets past 10 other players before it gets past the keeper. FACT
I once saw a shirt at a Keeper Wars tournament that said "The only position harder than GK is being a GK parent"   Fact or fiction..you decide. But only a GK parent can relate imho.

As my daughter has matured she's a lot more mindful of her role and responsibility.  Unfortunately she still shoulders the blame a lot for a loss..or even a tie. To echo what others have said..parents seem to forget the 10 missed shots on goal whether it be wide or right to the other keeper but they make sure to mention the 1 goal my kid gave up.  "She almost had that ball" or some other stupid back-handed comment. Usually I follow their comment right back with the fact that if we can't score we can't win.  Usually cools their jets. I won't stand idly by and tolerate moronic comments like that. I find the defender parents are more on our side. We couldn't find the back of the net last season even if we'd had sponsors from Lowrance, Garmin, and Thomas Bros. All but two games were all 0-2 or 0-1 losses with few if any shots on goal. Bad coaching played a big part. But that's the past so now we move on and focus on the future and a new club/team/coach and my daughter is excited about the next chapter in her soccer career. It's refreshing to see this and we are happy that she's happy. She'll miss her old teammates who have all moved on. Her coach..not so much. Didn't appreciate her one bit.

You have to have a few screws loose to play back there and play well..especially as they get older I think. The skills can be taught..but the natural aggression and especially the fearlessness I think is God-given. When a field player turns their back out of fear of being hit from that close kick,pass,etc with tons of pace on it..but the GK stands tall and ready to take that same shot face to face and at times at ridiculously close range is what separates the sheep from the sheep dog.
I laugh when I hear a kid complain to their parents after the game about the few scrapes on their leg from the one slide tackle they got during the game vs the crappy box that has more dirt than grass that my DD was diving in over and over and the only comment she'll make after the game is that the field was cruddy.
"Shaq Diesel" is what I always call her. 
I always tell her how much I respect and admire her work ethic and her willingness to do a job most players can't or won't.

One of her old trainers used to say " GK can't win the game..but they can sure save one"


**Mods..we still need a sub-forum for the GK community**


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## SoCal GK mom (Apr 23, 2017)

keepersmom said:


> So here's my question: What kind of college future is out there for a very hard-working but genetically-doomed-to-be-short keeper?


^^I have wondered the same.  How short is too short to have a chance to play GK in college?


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## Chustsoccer (Apr 23, 2017)

Jorge Campos 5' 6"


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## jdiaz (Apr 23, 2017)

To be a keeper . It has to come natural. Or it won't work. The majority of the clubs don't want to spend the money on a good keeper coach. Sorry but it's true. They get a young guy from college or a old guy that can't even do the drills himself. If your not investing in a good trainer the kid loses interest.


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## MWN (Apr 23, 2017)

SoCal GK mom said:


> ^^I have wondered the same.  How short is too short to have a chance to play GK in college?


Boy or girl?  I watched a few girl 2001 GK's today that couldn't hang from the top bar ... too short.   Girls also tend not to be able to jump has high as a boy of the same height.  A girl at 5'7 has a decent chance with a lower division if she is super aggressive and can get above the bar.  5'9" is ideal and anything taller is a major bonus.  For some coaches they don't care that much about height as much as jumping ability.  A 5'5 keeper that can hang from the bar is better than a 5'10 keeper that can only get 3 inches off the ground.  The taller they get the more leeway they have in their skills because college coaches always think that they can train the physically/genetically gifted.  This is something of a sore point with me because I watch these club coaches pigeon-hole these young players too early as GKs and now they have no chance to benefit down the road if they lost the genetic lottery.

I knew my kid (boy) would be tall enough for the position as I'm 6'3" and he was always in the 90% percentile on height.  Low risk but I loved the fact that we carried two keepers and he played 1/2 in the field and 1/2 between the sticks.  Now he is 5'11" at 13 (2003) and I'm OK with him dedicating himself at GK.  He trained with his club's DA keeper one night (great little keeper) and looking at the DA keepers parents ... the boy won't be in DA for too much longer.


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## multisportson (Apr 24, 2017)

My '06 son's team from last year is folding, and in club shopping, I have had several coaches express interest.  and he hasn't even been a keeper for a year yet!  We are new to soccer, so this demand for keepers really surprised me.


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## Mystery Train (Apr 24, 2017)

keepersmom said:


> For our keeper, we always say soccer is the metaphor. This thread really spells out how and why, and eloquently, so thank you.
> 
> I don't know much about soccer at all, so truly my daughter chose the keeper position for herself. I want her to dream whatever she wants for herself, but I also want to steer her in a realistic direction. So here's my question: What kind of college future is out there for a very hard-working but genetically-doomed-to-be-short keeper?


It depends on exactly how short you're talking.  At 5'1-5'3, honestly, it is going to be tough to get coaches interested.  But it isn't impossible.   I've scoured the rosters of many, many college teams at all levels and found plenty of keepers in the 5'4-5'7 range.  I've found some 5'2 keepers playing NAIA college ball or even some on Div 1 rosters (probably walk-on, non scholarship, but they're occasionally out there).   If they are short they will need to be able to jump out of their shoes, so if your daughter works on her vertical leap, she could compensate for her height.  Anna Picarelli is a former college/pro keeper who played for Pepperdine and the Italian national team.  She was listed at 5'4, but might have only been 5'3.  Look up her highlights on Youtube and show them to your daughter for inspiration.  My daughter was a late bloomer who will probably top out at  5'9, but for a while she was the shortest player on her younger teams so I did lots of research on this topic before she hit her growth spurt.  Good luck to your DD!


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## keepersmom (Apr 24, 2017)

Mystery Train said:


> If they are short they will need to be able to jump out of their shoes, so if your daughter works on her vertical leap, she could compensate for her height.  Anna Picarelli is a former college/pro keeper who played for Pepperdine and the Italian national team.  She was listed at 5'4, but might have only been 5'3.  Look up her highlights on Youtube and show them to your daughter for inspiration.


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## keepersmom (Apr 24, 2017)

Thank you for the advice and the video suggestion! 5'3" is a realistic expectation, so she will no doubt be working to max out on that jump. She is really just hoping for a small D3 with great academics. It's nice to know that window isn't completely closed for her.


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## socalkdg (Apr 25, 2017)

SoCal GK mom said:


> ^^I have wondered the same.  How short is too short to have a chance to play GK in college?


As long as they can touch the top bar they should be fine?


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## SocalSoccerMom (Apr 25, 2017)

socalkdg said:


> As long as they can touch the top bar they should be fine?


I wish this was true. Taller keepers tend to have longer limbs which equate to longer wingspan.


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## MWN (Apr 25, 2017)

With regard to Div. III, a quick review of some of the women's soccer programs can give you an idea:
http://athletics.amherst.edu/sports/wsoc/2016-17/roster
http://calvinknights.com/sports/wsoc/2016-17/roster
http://www.emoryathletics.com/sports/wsoc/2016-17/roster (hey... 5'4")
http://ephsports.williams.edu/sports/wsoc/2016-17/roster

most are at 5'7" or taller.


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## Eagle33 (Apr 25, 2017)

at 5'3" it's very slim chance not only playing college but your local HS team also


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## SocalSoccerMom (Apr 25, 2017)

Eagle33 said:


> at 5'3" it's very slim chance not only playing college but your local HS team also


or club


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Apr 25, 2017)

Darn it, my kid is only 5'3".  Wait a second ... she is only 12.  Maybe still some hope.


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## MWN (Apr 25, 2017)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Darn it, my kid is only 5'3".  Wait a second ... she is only 12.  Maybe still some hope.


You probably know this, but I'll mention it.  Girls (unlike boys) stop growing about 2 years after the onset of puberty.  In the case of my 12 year old girls ... 5'4" at 12/13 was it.  The typical growth spurt happens at the onset and slows/stops once the monthly visitor becomes regular.


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## Eagle33 (Apr 25, 2017)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Darn it, my kid is only 5'3".  Wait a second ... she is only 12.  Maybe still some hope.


There is a way to get taller. She may want to start playing basketball or volleyball - it will get her few more inches.


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## Goalie1310 (Apr 25, 2017)

Great topic it made me curious enough to look at D1 college rosters please see below. Seems to me height is not everything our goalie trainer is 5'1" Evelyn is now playing for the University of Hawaii they have her listed at 5'8" this is a typo she is the little one top row.she always tells my kids technique is most important height is just a bonus.  Check out college Links below 

http://hawaiiathletics.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

http://www.uclabruins.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

http://m.usctrojans.com/sports/w-soccer/mtt/usc-w-soccer-mtt-mobile.html

http://www.gostanford.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

http://www.lmulions.com/sports/w-soccer/mtt/loyo-w-soccer-mtt.html

http://www.calbears.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc

http://www.ucsbgauchos.com/sports/w-soccer/2016-17/roster

http://www.pepperdinewaves.com/sports/w-soccer/mtt/pepp-w-soccer-mtt.html

http://www.ucirvinesports.com/sports/w-soccer/2016-17/roster


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## Goalie1310 (Apr 25, 2017)

And here are a couple links for the men's side.

http://www.uclabruins.com/roster.aspx?path=msoc

http://www.lmulions.com/sports/m-soccer/mtt/loyo-m-soccer-mtt.html


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## Keepermom2 (Jun 19, 2017)

5'2" Goalkeeper Chapman University
http://fullertonrangers.com/college-center/alumni/fullerton-rangers-alumni-kristen-kleinow-named-to-nscaa-all-region-team

http://www.ocregister.com/2014/09/29/game-saving-sophomore/


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## Fact (Jun 19, 2017)

MWN said:


> You probably know this, but I'll mention it.  Girls (unlike boys) stop growing about 2 years after the onset of puberty.  In the case of my 12 year old girls ... 5'4" at 12/13 was it.  The typical growth spurt happens at the onset and slows/stops once the monthly visitor becomes regular.


TMI


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## Keepermom2 (Jun 19, 2017)

2keepersandadefender said:


> My two crazy kids love to play between the sticks and don't have a desire to be anywhere else.  My daughter is 6'0" and my 13 year old son just passed me at 5'6".  I have never talked them into the position but I have tried to talk them out of it a time or two.  It is exciting to watch an amazing save and just as rewarding to teach your child to not take a goal personally but to learn from it.


So true!!!!!  "You can't do anything about the one that got past but you can mess up on the one in the future because your are focused on the past."  A life lesson at the same time!


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## pewpew (Jun 20, 2017)

Still waiting on the GK sub-forum.......


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## MakeAPlay (Jun 20, 2017)

I love keepers.  They are just made of different stuff.  Having a great keeper is essential to success at the highest levels.


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## TopFlight (Jun 20, 2017)

Released for something bigger more secure.


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## outside! (Jun 20, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I love keepers.  They are just made of different stuff.  Having a great keeper is essential to success at the highest levels.


Goal keepers and drummers are different from average humans.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Jun 20, 2017)

outside! said:


> Goal keepers and drummers are different from average humans.


The only people crazier than a keeper is the keeper's parents.


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## Grace T. (Jun 20, 2017)

outside! said:


> Goal keepers and drummers are different from average humans.


Oh God!  My kid is both.  Help!


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## NorCal (Jun 26, 2017)

Nice to hear from other keeper parents. What age group is your keeper? How many years have they played the position? Do they play a 2nd position? 

My daughter is an '04 (plays mostly '03 but will guest play '04). This is her 5th year as a GK and also plays midfield (this has helped her distribution from the GK position and confidence with play backs). 

Would love to see some highlights if you have them, nothing better than a clip of a great save.


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## midreams (Jun 26, 2017)

NorCal said:


> Nice to hear from other keeper parents. What age group is your keeper? How many years have they played the position? Do they play a 2nd position?
> 
> My daughter is an '04 (plays mostly '03 but will guest play '04). This is her 5th year as a GK and also plays midfield (this has helped her distribution from the GK position and confidence with play backs).
> 
> Would love to see some highlights if you have them, nothing better than a clip of a great save.



I have two sons who play, my 2005 is a Left Back and my 2003 is a Keeper. My oldest has been playing GK exclusively going on his fourth club season. He played other positions back in the AYSO days, but keeper has always spoken to him. Plus, he has always been a tall kid, right now at 13 he is 5"11, and has a very high pain tolerance, so he takes the hits and keeps on ticking. So he is a coach's dream. His whole club career, he played 2 years up. For this season, we finally brought him down to his proper age group, and walked right on to a Premier team because the need for a quality goalie was that high. Even at that level.

A couple of years ago he attended a Galaxy ID camp. There was a good 100-150 kids there. He was the ONLY keeper. One! Another kid mentioned to us that he wanted to play at goal, but his dad told him he should be on the field. While I understand how excruciating it can be at times being a keepers parent, the demand is so much higher. I was surprised how many parents discourage it. Maybe because they want the kid on the field who scores and gets the glory? Or maybe its just too painful to watch, I don't know.

If my boys continue their soccer careers and have a shot at playing in college, Id be lying if I said I didn't think my GK son had a much better chance than my Left back. GK's stand out. If they can handle the incredible pressure, and pain, they are a high commodity.


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## gkrent (Jun 26, 2017)

midreams said:


> Maybe because they want the kid on the field who scores and gets the glory?


There is plenty of glory to be had by the keeper!


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## midreams (Jun 26, 2017)

gkrent said:


> There is plenty of glory to be had by the keeper!



Oh I agree with you!

I think lots of parents want their kid to be the next Messi, not the next Neuer.


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## outside! (Jun 26, 2017)

midreams said:


> Oh I agree with you!
> 
> I think lots of parents want their kid to be the next Messi, not the next Neuer.


If my players were keepers, I would want them to be the next Tim Howard. Neuer is overrated in my opinion.


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## Grace T. (Jun 26, 2017)

It's hard to watch you kid get blamed by his teammates and the parents for letting one in (even when sometimes its not their fault), by the other team (like in the video we all saw) for challenging the forward, and to risk injury while doing it, or to be asked to do the near impossible (like stopping a penalty from a striker that knows what he/she is doing).  You have an off day as a midfielder, maybe someone else steps up.  You have an off day as a keeper everyone sees it and doesn't let you forget it.  Just ask Diop after his performance this weekend.


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## Grace T. (Jun 26, 2017)

They also have their own unique set of problems


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## NorCal (Jun 26, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> It's hard to watch you kid get blamed by his teammates and the parents for letting one in (even when sometimes its not their fault), by the other team (like in the video we all saw) for challenging the forward, and to risk injury while doing it, or to be asked to do the near impossible (like stopping a penalty from a striker that knows what he/she is doing).  You have an off day as a midfielder, maybe someone else steps up.  You have an off day as a keeper everyone sees it and doesn't let you forget it.  Just ask Diop after his performance this weekend.



I guess we are fortunate (or just lucky) but my daughter has never mentioned to us any finger pointing in her direction after a goal by her teammates. Maybe it's a gender thing, club culture thing or individual team thing. She fees highly respected and valued by her teammates. Parents are great on the sideline too.


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## GoWest (Jun 26, 2017)

NorCal said:


> I guess we are fortunate (or just lucky) but my daughter has never mentioned to us any finger pointing in her direction after a goal by her teammates. Maybe it's a gender thing, club culture thing or individual team thing. She fees highly respected and valued by her teammates. Parents are great on the sideline too.


Agree here. Unless a goalie really clearly makes a mistake rarely is there finger pointing at the goalie. Generally, it's the other way around lol.


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## Grace T. (Jun 26, 2017)

Here's a story.  So my sons team won the Jrs. Ribbon at Two Rivers Soccer Camp 4 v. 4.  Their team was ranked dead last at the beginning of the elimination rounds.  DS went up as a striker and attended striker clinic because I wanted him to get some of the touches he normally misses as a keeper and because his 2nd position is on the wing.  DS and his teammates unexpectedly woke up and quite brilliantly battled into the finals.  He faced his cabinmate who did the GK clinic and who is a very classic big keeper...the 2 of them had some rivalry thing going all camp long too and not just on the field.  Final game tied 4-4.  Went to penalities and tied 5-5/8.  So they went into sudden death penalties only they made them strike with their nondominant foot.  DS's rival missed his, but DS had been trained by his field trainer in taking left footed shots repeatedly so it was a piece of cake into the corner of the quartersized goal.  DS's team wins.  His rival cabinmate, the keeper, takes it very hard and is inconsolable despite all the kind words from the counselors about how impressive both teams did.  If DS had missed that shot and lost he would have shrugged and said oh well.  If DS had been the keeper he'd be pounding his fists into the ground.  YMMV.


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## AZsoccerDad (Jun 26, 2017)

GoWest said:


> Agree here. Unless a goalie really clearly makes a mistake rarely is there finger pointing at the goalie. Generally, it's the other way around lol.


Assume that the finger pointing is equal when a field player makes a clear mistake, like missing an easy shot?


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## socalkdg (Jun 27, 2017)

NorCal said:


> I guess we are fortunate (or just lucky) but my daughter has never mentioned to us any finger pointing in her direction after a goal by her teammates. Maybe it's a gender thing, club culture thing or individual team thing. She fees highly respected and valued by her teammates. Parents are great on the sideline too.


Completely agree.  Coaches, players, and parents all want her in front of the net, have never blamed her for anything.   In a recent game she was kicked in the head and down on her knees, backup keeper starts warming up.   One of the girls comes over and whispers something to her, she gets up resumes her position.  The girl later tells us she told our daughter "so in so" is warming up and you can't come out of the game.  The coach occasionally puts other girls in goal during practice, which gives them all an additional appreciation for her.  

My DD is a 05 keeper.  1.5 years experience.  Was a forward, still one of the fastest players on the team.  Coach stresses and coaches playing back to the keeper,  and she practices field play at least half the time.  Plays with a great set of girls.   Also stressed to her to come off her line and clear balls outside the 18 using her speed.   Plays basketball all the time which really helps giving her great hands and practice jumping for balls(great sport to cross train in, just hope she doesn't like basketball too much).  Starting to ramp up keeper training with camps and an outside trainer.  Might start looking at guest playing as well to get more touches.


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## Keepermom2 (Jun 27, 2017)

My daughter had a couple of defenders get on her about a couple of misses (after stopping several) and she didn't respond back.  I told her she should say to them..."Hey, when you get a chance can you show me how I could have done it better?"  haha  She had a great response in her head...they have no idea how hard this position is.  I think it is hard for younger kids to grasp the fact that first the forward made a mistake and then the midfielder made a mistake and then the defender made a mistake and then the keeper made possibly made a mistake (there are just some balls that the keeper can't win) when there is a score.  There had to be an accumulation of mistakes for a goal to be scored whether it be positioning errors, foot skill errors, decision errors etc.  It takes a team to score and a team to have a goal scored against them.


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## gkrent (Jun 27, 2017)

I think as the kids get older, there is less, if any, mouthing off to the keeper.


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## zebrafish (Jun 28, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Here's a few things that I've seen:
> 1.  At the youngest age (u8-u10) the best keeper is also the best field player.  They are the aggressive kid that has no fear.  They are good at any sport they play. The coach likes them in goal because it gives them a good chance to win, but also plays them on the field because they dominate on the field too.   The parents don't want this kid being a full time goalie.
> 2.  Or at these ages, a coach will rotate several players in goal.  The lose some games because of it. Parents get upset and say "if we just had a full time keeper, we'd never lose."
> 3.  Or during the first few weeks of a new season, the coach says "who wants to play in goal?"  And 3 kids raise their hand.  Not really knowing what it means to play in goal.  They either really like the position or they don't really care for running or they are trying to be a team player.  One of these kids winds up being a full time goalie halfway through the season but she doesn't really like it.  The coach either doesn't know or doesn't care and keeps her in goal.  The parents get mad because they spent $2,500 for their kid to move 14 yards every weekend, while they drive 30-60 minutes to watch her stand around in a long sleeved shirt for 85% of the game.


My kid's team full-time goalie for last year was the worst player on the team. It was unfortunate, as at least 90% of the team was a better walk-on goalie with no practice than the team's full-time goalie. The goalie was also by far the worst field player. The parent pushed to have the kid on the team, and it was not fair to the goalie or the other players. It was difficult to watch.

This year, they have no full-time goalie and are rotating players. I agree this loses some games (versus a decent full-time goalie), but I think it is good for younger kids to learn the basics and gain an appreciation of the difficulty/responsibility of the position. At younger ages, a good athlete can be 90% of the goalie who has some training.

Last year, my daughter raised her hand for such questions (eg "who _can_ play defense?" vs "who _wants_ to play defense?"-- every kid _can_ play defense). She learned the hard way on that one...


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## zebrafish (Jun 28, 2017)

gkrent said:


> There is plenty of glory to be had by the keeper!


Just look at Portugal vs Chile at this year's Confederation Cup.........


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## Grace T. (Jun 28, 2017)

zebrafish said:


> My kid's team full-time goalie for last year was the worst player on the team. It was unfortunate, as at least 90% of the team was a better walk-on goalie with no practice than the team's full-time goalie. The goalie was also by far the worst field player. The parent pushed to have the kid on the team, and it was not fair to the goalie or the other players. It was difficult to watch.
> 
> This year, they have no full-time goalie and are rotating players. I agree this loses some games (versus a decent full-time goalie), but I think it is good for younger kids to learn the basics and gain an appreciation of the difficulty/responsibility of the position. At younger ages, a good athlete can be 90% of the goalie who has some training.
> 
> Last year, my daughter raised her hand for such questions (eg "who _can_ play defense?" vs "who _wants_ to play defense?"-- every kid _can_ play defense). She learned the hard way on that one...


My only issue with the rotation system is that many times the coaches then don't give the rotating keepers proper keeper training.  It's still fine, particularly in the youngers, if the coach is just expecting them to be a deterrent, block shots directly/relatively near them, get the lose balls, and distribute the ball.  Given the sizes of the goals they usually play with and the sizes of the youngers, an athletic keeper isn't going to be very much less effective than the trained keeper.  But if the coach is expecting them to dive, defend the cross, or worse, to close down the one v ones, without proper training a keeper substitute could get hurt very easily.  That isn't fair to the keepers.  If the coach is going to do that, it's incumbent on the program to provide the keepers with proper training beyond just the basics.  Coach's like the rotational system as well because they might find a stand out player performs well and lo and behold they become the full time keeper.


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## CaliKlines (Jun 28, 2017)

zebrafish said:


> Just look at Portugal vs Chile at this year's Confederation Cup.........


I must say bravo Bravo!


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