# Is Club soccer the biggest SCAM in youth sports?



## Nextbigthing (Apr 25, 2017)

DOC 's making over 200k a year!  They sell you on development not wins.  Some clubs having 5-6 teams at an age group.  DA 2, ECNL reserve and god knows what other team names will be next for marketing a third or fourth team. Blues, Surf, Legends, Slammers, Pats, Beach, Eagles, LA Galaxy, West Coast, Albion, SDSC.  do any of these clubs actually care about the individual player or will it always be money first, then club, then coach, then player


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## chargerfan (Apr 25, 2017)

Nextbigthing said:


> DOC 's making over 200k a year!  They sell you on development not wins.  Some clubs having 5-6 teams at an age group.  DA 2, ECNL reserve and god knows what other team names will be next for marketing a third or fourth team. Blues, Surf, Legends, Slammers, Pats, Beach, Eagles, LA Galaxy, West Coast, Albion, SDSC.  do any of these clubs actually care about the individual player or will it always be money first, then club, then coach, then player


I know some coaches (Shannon Mac, Jose ocampo) in it for the right reasons, and put the kids first. You can find them as long as you aren't obsessed with club name and the various acronyms du jour.


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## timbuck (Apr 25, 2017)

Club volleyball is right up there.  $4k for an 11 year old to play is a bit silly.  
Kids can't bump, set or hit with any consistency, but you have coaches teaching intricate rotations to kids who may never be able to jump high enough to get their hand over the net.


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## SuperNatural (Apr 25, 2017)

I agree 100%. But the sad part is non- privileged clubs are just as bad. It's a lose lose situation.

The ego-maniac coach winning at all costs backwards mentality for mere foolish rankings. smh.


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## timbuck (Apr 26, 2017)

I don't think that the founding fathers of soccer in the US planned on "Youth Soccer Coach" becoming a full-time career.


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## charlie murphy (Apr 26, 2017)

what is a "non- privileged club". what is an example of a "non-privileged club" and an example of "privileged club" . ( this is a serious question, not trying to bend the thread , just want to know what that means)


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## watfly (Apr 26, 2017)

Nextbigthing said:


> DOC 's making over 200k a year!  They sell you on development not wins.  Some clubs having 5-6 teams at an age group.  DA 2, ECNL reserve and god knows what other team names will be next for marketing a third or fourth team. Blues, Surf, Legends, Slammers, Pats, Beach, Eagles, LA Galaxy, West Coast, Albion, SDSC.  do any of these clubs actually care about the individual player or will it always be money first, then club, then coach, then player


It's certainly buyer beware with Club soccer.  My son has played for one of the clubs and currently plays on another club on your list.  While the current club is not perfect, it is light years better than the previous club.  In one club the DOC verbally assaulted a parent of a tier 1 player because the player wanted to tryout for another club.  You would also receive the wrath if your child wanted to guest for another club, despite the fact that the club regularly brought in guest players.  In contrast, in my kid's current club the relatively well known DOC has no problem coaching a U8 C team.

It's easy to blame the clubs but parents have to shoulder some of blame.  Among other things, the whole scholarship mentality, particularly for kids that aren't even in high school yet, makes parents easy prey for the clubs.  These clubs post all their senior college commitments (whether by athletic scholarship or not) on their website and the parents eat it up like educational crack.

Everyone has to make the value decision for themselves as to which club suits them the best.  Plenty of organized sports where the cost is substantially more expensive, although on a per hour basis Club soccer maybe the most expensive particularly if you get the old school coach that still believes in laps, lines and lectures.


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## rocket_file (Apr 26, 2017)

I have two in Club Soccer. Couldn't be happier for the experience. Blissfully launching my third this year. 

It's about more than just getting into college or making the National Team. 

If you don't like it leave or work to change the system.

Shaking my head at all the whiners.


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## espola (Apr 26, 2017)

rocket_file said:


> I have two in Club Soccer. Couldn't be happier for the experience. Blissfully launching my third this year.
> 
> It's about more than just getting into college or making the National Team.
> 
> ...


We enjoyed my daughter's games even though we realized she had no chance at college soccer  as much as those of her two older brothers , who we believed at the time were destined to play in the World Cup.


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## soccerstud (Apr 26, 2017)

"Is Club soccer the biggest SCAM in youth sports?"...*YES!!*


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## Overlap (Apr 26, 2017)

Nextbigthing said:


> DOC 's making over 200k a year!  They sell you on development not wins.  Some clubs having 5-6 teams at an age group.  DA 2, ECNL reserve and god knows what other team names will be next for marketing a third or fourth team. Blues, Surf, Legends, Slammers, Pats, Beach, Eagles, LA Galaxy, West Coast, Albion, SDSC.  do any of these clubs actually care about the individual player or will it always be money first, then club, then coach, then player


it is if you fall into that trap. Both of my kids wanted to stay at a smaller local club, so far, it's been the best experience. Over the last few years, my older daughter had team mates go to several of the clubs you have listed, looking for the golden ticket, some were injured, never played and others committed to schools that were OK. (Kind of like spending $$$$ for private school and going to an eh college) The kids that stayed with their team mates all committed to some very good schools and I'd dare to say great schools from an academic standpoint. Don't get me wrong, all clubs have their drama but, the things I see happening are only to draw the numbers, reduce the player pool and make smaller clubs weaker. The sad part is, after a short time, most parents realize, the drive stinks, it's not worth it as their kids not going to make the National team and may not even get into the right tournaments to be seen by college coaches....crazy!


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## JJP (Apr 26, 2017)

Soccer is no different from other sports.  Traveling teams in hockey run from $10,000 to $30,000 a year.  Club teams and tournament teams in lacrosse can get up to $10k as well.  Travel basketball can rack up huge costs even though it should be the cheapest sport. Pair of sneaks, a ball, put  up a hoop in your driveway and you can practice all day for free, or get free pickup games at your local schoolyard.

Do you guys have any idea how much travel baseball costs?  Top of the line bats are helium infused and go for $300 a pop, and once you smash out that helium, which doesn't take long, you have to buy another one.

At least soccer has relatively cheap equipment (when my kid played hockey sticks cost $200, skates $500 and it wasn't even top of the line stuff), you can practice on your own for free all year at a local park, and there's tons of options. -- Mexican leagues, AYSO, various clubs, and eventually DA.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Apr 26, 2017)

Nextbigthing said:


> DOC 's making over 200k a year!  They sell you on development not wins.  Some clubs having 5-6 teams at an age group.  DA 2, ECNL reserve and god knows what other team names will be next for marketing a third or fourth team. Blues, Surf, Legends, Slammers, Pats, Beach, Eagles, LA Galaxy, West Coast, Albion, SDSC.  do any of these clubs actually care about the individual player or will it always be money first, then club, then coach, then player


The answer is simple. Find a great coach who's willing to do it for free! Should be easy enough right?


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## Multi Sport (Apr 26, 2017)

Overlap said:


> my older daughter had team mates go to several of the clubs you have listed, looking for the golden ticket, some were injured, never played and others committed to schools that were OK. (Kind of like spending $$$$ for private school and going to an eh college)


Whats an eh college? What's an ok college?


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## Grace T. (Apr 26, 2017)

It's a business.....just like a private school....just like any other business.  Football is also beginning to shift to a club model, at least for the elite players....high school football is still a huge draw but the clubs are beginning to spread (even in Texas).  Just got back from spring break vacation and was talking to a Texas dad about this.

Also got into an argument with an AYSO/Extras parent about the merits of club sports and whether they are a rip off.  My son has only done 1/2 season of club so far but already I notice the improvement.  He did the UK International/AYSO spring camp for a week because it had already been paid for before he got into a club team.  He was put into the 9+ group (he's 8)...all I can say is that I watched them play the final tournament and DS was taking on Extras and All Star Players that were a few years older than him...they were getting so frustrated by their inability to stop him that by the end they were just blatantly fouling...and this from a kid who is GK-oriented and who is a middling field player for his bronze team.  I was really impressed by the progress he's made by just the short time in club (the only real other competition on the field was a slightly older club player from a rival bronze team).  So while it may be true there are rec squads out there that are equivalent to C and D teams, the two experiences are no way on par, at least from my limited experience now.


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## Overlap (Apr 26, 2017)

Multi Sport said:


> Whats an eh college? What's an ok college?


eh is "personally" defined as - "probably not their first 10-15 choices"...Ok is "personally" defined as some where in that mid 10-15th choice, keep in mind, there's lot's of wish, plenty of "reach" and some you never thought of, just personal preference....


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## bababooey (Apr 26, 2017)

I don't think club soccer is a scam at all. Are there good coaches and bad coaches? Yes. Are there good clubs and bad clubs? Yes. Do some coaches/DOC's care about their players, absolutely!

It becomes a scam when the uneducated parent feels jilted by the process of spending thousands of dollars over many years and their prized child does not make a YNT or get a full ride to college.

Parents must be honest with themselves about club sports. It's going to cost a lot of money and there is no guarantee that your player will reach the top of his or her sport. In fact the vast majority do not make it to the top. On the flip side, club soccer has taught my dd so much when it comes to teamwork, commitment, time management, dealing with losing and winning, etc. The benefits far outweigh the costs.

Lastly, I suspect both gymnastics and golf are much more expensive than club soccer. Is gymnastics or golf really a sport?


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## Multi Sport (Apr 26, 2017)

Overlap said:


> eh is "personally" defined as - "probably not their first 10-15 choices"...Ok is "personally" defined as some where in that mid 10-15th choice, keep in mind, there's lot's of wish, plenty of "reach" and some you never thought of, just personal preference....


I guess we did it differently.  

My daughter never had a list of schools 10-15 deep. What we did do is put together a list of schools who had what she wanted to major in. Then, based off of her wants (size of school, location, and graduation rate of their student athletes) she began to narrow it down. 

Then she made her trips, met the coaches and the fun part about scholarship $ was discussed.

But back to the subject: all businesses need to make money. Club soccer is a business.  Always remember that.


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## Overlap (Apr 26, 2017)

Multi Sport said:


> I guess we did it differently.
> 
> My daughter never had a list of schools 10-15 deep. What we did do is put together a list of schools who had what she wanted to major in. Then, based off of her wants (size of school, location, and graduation rate of their student athletes) she began to narrow it down.
> 
> ...


interesting method, I decided to back out when my DD was a Sophomore, going to be a Junior, it wasn't good for our relationship as we started to argue over, "did you contact this school?" or "have you followed up with insert name of school here"...wasn't good, so I hired a recruiting mentor, that's when the list jumped to almost 20! wth, she was the best thing as I no longer had to argue with my DD and the recruiter kept us in the loop. I loved it when I saw something in her game too, (like you're not getting the ball because of your angle!) I ran it by the recruiter and they dealt with it, I been able to sit and watch this last year without the drama. We ran the scholarship through her and again with the coach, worked pretty well. 

but back to the subject: you're right, it is a business, parents need to know what they're doing in the process too because most clubs aren't going to do it for you and I think that's where parents feel cheated, they may of had an expectation their kid was just going to get discovered without knowing what to do...


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## Sons of Pitches (Apr 26, 2017)

While I do not think it is a scam, anyone involved in club soccer(me included) knows that there are some people getting very wealthy.  Look at Cal South, their 2015 financials that are posted on line.  Close to a $9,000,000 budget.  $1,750,000 in salaries and wages, $837,000 in contract labor, $628,000 in professional services.  That totals - $3,215,000. Dig a little deeper, and it appears that they purchased the State Cup Sweatshirts that you see every player wearing for $497,000 and sold them for $876,000, or a $379,000 profit. I am sure that the original $500,000 purchase came from a "related" party or a "related" party made a commission.   

Their 2016 Financials should be posted in then next few weeks, should make for an interesting read.  

The problem is the mission statement is so vague, and the vision statement is so bad that you can'e even really complain about it -  what is Cal South supposed to do?  

Mission - "Cal Souths mission is to advance and improve soccer"
Vision - "Our goal is to have one million players, coaches, referees and administrators by 2027. In fulfillment of our  mission, we will provide opportunities for growth, development, and advancement through innovative programming and leadership, that embraces all skill levels and all formats of the game."  I think they left out "and enriches those at the top" 

The History of Excellence page has not been updated in at least 10 years, they talk about growing from a $25,000/year budget to a $3,000,000 budget.  Well guess what, in 2010 they had more than a  six million dollar budget.

Why are US Soccer/MLS and the SCDSL  pretty much the only soccer organizations in the world to not follow promotion/relegation standards?  To protect the investment at the top, so the big clubs can say we have all these Tier 1 teams and charge more money.  The guys that originally invested in the MLS can protect their investment, make their billions.  If you don't think these people are in it to make money and lots of it, you are crazy.  

Why does FIFA have the 3 substitution rule?  Because at the time the club owners said they were not making any money, they wanted to curb spending and an easy way to do that was limit the number of "good" players you had to pay, because if you can't sub them and get them in the game what is the use of carrying them on your roster?

As I stated at the beginning of this rant, I have a child in club soccer.  She is on a competitive team, we have a great situation, with very few crazy parents, a great coach, and players that support each other.  Club soccer has been a great experience for my daughter, she has developed many friendships, become a better soccer player, and has learned many life lessons.  However, I know that some people are making money off that experience.


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## Grace T. (Apr 26, 2017)

Sons of Pitches said:


> However, I know that some people are making money off that experience.


Yup.  Academy fees...summer camp kick backs...uniform kickbacks....concession sales...travel per diems....the padding list goes on and on.  But why is that necessarily a bad thing?  If they aren't able to make a living this way, they'll go do other things and take other jobs.  If you want professional training, someone's got to pay for it, otherwise what you are left with is AYSO and volunteer-based rec leagues.  True, buyer must beware and expectations should be held in check.  And true we have a problem with underprivileged kids who might be great never getting their shot at soccer because of the hefty fees.  We could adopt a scholarship approach like they do in the African and Latin American countries, where only gifted players that show their talent early on might get to play, but then there would be a bunch of cries we are missing late bloomers (see other thread), and our soccer system has always been college (not pro) oriented, which is why club in part appeals to (largely middle and upper class) parents with something other than pro dreams.  The club system isn't perfect with, but I think it's largely what we are stuck with unless we were to move away from a college-oriented approach (which also explains why the club system is not just limited to soccer, but is also spreading to other sports).  Otherwise what do we replace it with?  How do you reform the system without taking away the incentives for grown persons to want to take the licensing requirements, education, and time it takes to run clubs and coach them?


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## PLSAP (Apr 26, 2017)

bababooey said:


> Is gymnastics or golf really a sport?


Yes


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## SoccerFan4Life (Apr 26, 2017)

It's Not a Scam!!  The scam is with parents that believe that their kids are destined for scholarships and professional level play and coaches must make this happen.        If you think it's a scam then why spend time talking about it on this post.   It's just club soccer.  We are not talking about solving world hunger here.


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## Kicknit22 (Apr 26, 2017)

Most of the complaints come from those with whom it hasn't worked out as  thought, planned or dare I say, promised.  Or it's for those who are just getting into the club scene and are flabbergasted that it's no longer like AYSO 3mo., and what, $90.   Club soccer is a business.  If you don't like it, you are not held at gunpoint.


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## Striker17 (Apr 26, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Yup.  Academy fees...summer camp kick backs...uniform kickbacks....concession sales...travel per diems....the padding list goes on and on.  But why is that necessarily a bad thing?  If they aren't able to make a living this way, they'll go do other things and take other jobs.  If you want professional training, someone's got to pay for it, otherwise what you are left with is AYSO and volunteer-based rec leagues.  True, buyer must beware and expectations should be held in check.  And true we have a problem with underprivileged kids who might be great never getting their shot at soccer because of the hefty fees.  We could adopt a scholarship approach like they do in the African and Latin American countries, where only gifted players that show their talent early on might get to play, but then there would be a bunch of cries we are missing late bloomers (see other thread), and our soccer system has always been college (not pro) oriented, which is why club in part appeals to (largely middle and upper class) parents with something other than pro dreams.  The club system isn't perfect with, but I think it's largely what we are stuck with unless we were to move away from a college-oriented approach (which also explains why the club system is not just limited to soccer, but is also spreading to other sports).  Otherwise what do we replace it with?  How do you reform the system without taking away the incentives for grown persons to want to take the licensing requirements, education, and time it takes to run clubs and coach them?


So true but also from a different perspective I just returned from Colombia. My DD was in shock at the very low income areas that all had a beautifully maintained and perfectly chalked pitch. Maybe it was grass, or did, or in some cases more rudimentary but the goals were perfect and the chalk was perfect. My daughter said to me "Mom they care about this sport". She always knew this to some extent but to see a country where it was truly woven into their culture and community was humbling.


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## Soccer43 (Apr 26, 2017)

everyone keeps talking about club soccer being a business.  Last time I checked a business has to care about customer satisfaction and has to be accountable to the person that pays the invoice in order to stay in business.    It is the only "business" I know of that can treat it's customers like crap and continue to charge whatever it wants and do whatever it wants and the income never stops - making thousands on the backs of the hopes and dreams of children and their parents.


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## Striker17 (Apr 26, 2017)

Agree with





Soccer43 said:


> everyone keeps talking about club soccer being a business.  Last time I checked a business has to care about customer satisfaction and has to be accountable to the person that pays the invoice in order to stay in business.    It is the only "business" I know of that can treat it's customers like crap and continue to charge whatever it wants and do whatever it wants and the income never stops - making thousands on the backs of the hopes and dreams of children and their parents.


Agree with you in theory. However anyone in business also knows that in the corporate world our problem employees don't get terminated they get moved to other departments. Now think of every bad soccer coach you know and how many clubs and teams they have floated to. 
Also as I have stated the change is afoot. I know people don't agree with me but the mighty are falling and years of treating people like garbage because of monopolies are now impacting the bottom line for some former greats.


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## Grace T. (Apr 26, 2017)

Soccer43 said:


> everyone keeps talking about club soccer being a business.  Last time I checked a business has to care about customer satisfaction and has to be accountable to the person that pays the invoice in order to stay in business.    It is the only "business" I know of that can treat it's customers like crap and continue to charge whatever it wants and do whatever it wants and the income never stops - making thousands on the backs of the hopes and dreams of children and their parents.


I think the airlines have proven this not true over the last couple weeks.  And let's not forget the banks.  I'd throw in many of the colleges in the US on that scrap pile too.


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## timbuck (Apr 26, 2017)

I'd say that "Professional Youth Sports" is the big scam.
AAU Basketball, Year Round Football, Club Volleyball, Youth Speed and Strength Gyms, Private "Lessons" for all sports.
Kids used to find out what they might be good at by messing around on the playground or in PE class.  And we had school sports leagues in elementary school to let kids try out sports without having to be an "elite" player in 4th grade.
We've taken what used to be sports that kids "played" and made it into a business for coaches to make a solid living off of.
Soccer isn't the most expensive.  Actually, most kids activities now cost about the same.  Between $30 and $50 per hour for some sort of "professionally coached" activity -  Sports, singing, art, music, etc.
It's all stupid really.  What happened to adults that work a "real job" giving back their time to help kids out?  Working from 4pm- 8pm while yelling at kids shouldn't be a long term career plan.
If all of these guys with English accents and Adidas jackets are such great soccer coaches, then why aren't they back in England coaching?  How did the great migration of British 35-50 year olds wind up coaching 9 year old kids across the US?


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## chargerfan (Apr 26, 2017)

timbuck said:


> I'd say that "Professional Youth Sports" is the big scam.
> AAU Basketball, Year Round Football, Club Volleyball, Youth Speed and Strength Gyms, Private "Lessons" for all sports.
> Kids used to find out what they might be good at by messing around on the playground or in PE class.  And we had school sports leagues in elementary school to let kids try out sports without having to be an "elite" player in 4th grade.
> We've taken what used to be sports that kids "played" and made it into a business for coaches to make a solid living off of.
> ...


We live in a weird time where everyone is trying to outdo each other and everyone's kid has to be the BEST at everything. They must go to the top preschool, the top soccer club, make straight As at the fanciest school, get a full ride to Harvard! No wonder kids are stressed out and on anti-anxiety medicine in high school. Maybe social media is partly to blame? 

Club soccer, and other sports I am sure, have taken advantage of this culture. They promise little Chloe a college scholarship and maybe national team, and the optics of having a coach with an accent make it seem extra exclusive. And imagine the Instagram pictures of her with all her medals! Won't the other parents be so jealous? Chloe is the best of all the 3rd graders!


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## Grace T. (Apr 26, 2017)

timbuck said:


> I'd say that "Professional Youth Sports" is the big scam.
> AAU Basketball, Year Round Football, Club Volleyball, Youth Speed and Strength Gyms, Private "Lessons" for all sports.
> Kids used to find out what they might be good at by messing around on the playground or in PE class.  And we had school sports leagues in elementary school to let kids try out sports without having to be an "elite" player in 4th grade.
> We've taken what used to be sports that kids "played" and made it into a business for coaches to make a solid living off of.
> Soccer isn't the most expensive.  Actually, most kids activities now cost about the same.  Between $30 and $50 per hour for some sort of "professionally coached" activity -  Sports, singing, art, music, etc.


The answer is really quite simple and is linked to the observation you make that it's not just about soccer, or even team sports.

1) colleges, particularly the top sports and academic colleges, have been engaged in an arms race over the last 20 years...whereas before kids would just go to their local state schools the ease of travel has opened up other possibility....add to that the growing import of students from overseas (where their own programs are capped due to their merit based tracking system) and you have higher competition at the top levels in sports and academia.  Whereas my grades were good enough 25 years ago to get me into an Ivy League school, now days with the same scores I'd be laughed out of the interviews.  The increased competition has trickled down the ladder so it's no longer enough for kids to just be mediocre and why so many kids apply to colleges these days seem to have founded even their own charities.  US soccer, unlike other countries, is college driven, which is why it's no longer good enough just to be a mediocre rec or high school player.

2) opportunities have shrunk, particularly for the middle class, and have increasingly been congregated in several key cities.  That all leads to parents being anxious, and feeling that it's necessary to shell out money to give their kids an edge.

3) a generational shift is underway.  The Millenials were all about self-actualization and everyone being a winner.  The pendulum is swinging the other way.  The parents of Gen Z are much more about winning and losing. In school, the kids are tested and ranked.  The kids also become something of a status symbol, to be shown off on social media.

4) with parents working and social mores becoming more nervous about dangers that can happen to kids (e.g. kidnappings, being locked in cars), real or perceived, there are no more free ranged children, and in fact having free ranged children might get you locked up by the government.  There are no more kids wandering around the neighborhoods ready to play pickup games of football.  If you want athletics, they have to be organized.  With birthrates falling, there are also fewer of them.

5) US sports have been organized to select kids to play in college.  Other nations don't have our collegiate teams.  Therefore the focus is on developing good players, but not necessarily just elite players.  It's in part why AYSO has fallen into disfavor (because it doesn't supply the kids the necessary training) and why we develop so few homegrown superstars to play in the MLS.

The rest is just the market responding to demand.....


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## JJP (Apr 26, 2017)

timbuck said:


> I'd say that "Professional Youth Sports" is the big scam.
> AAU Basketball, Year Round Football, Club Volleyball, Youth Speed and Strength Gyms, Private "Lessons" for all sports.


How is it a scam?  If you don't like don't spend your money on it.



> We've taken what used to be sports that kids "played" and made it into a business for coaches to make a solid living off of.
> Soccer isn't the most expensive.  Actually, most kids activities now cost about the same.  Between $30 and $50 per hour for some sort of "professionally coached" activity -  Sports, singing, art, music, etc.
> It's all stupid really.  What happened to adults that work a "real job" giving back their time to help kids out?  Working from 4pm- 8pm while yelling at kids shouldn't be a long term career plan.
> If all of these guys with English accents and Adidas jackets are such great soccer coaches, then why aren't they back in England coaching?  How did the great migration of British 35-50 year olds wind up coaching 9 year old kids across the US?


C'mon.  That's not fair and you know it.  Soccer coaches aren't getting rich, maybe DOCs or higher ups are.

When I was a kid this kind of coaching wasn't around, so yes my parents saved money.  OTOH, the level of dad coaching was pretty bad.  Some kids had dads who knew what they were doing, some were naturals, and the rest of us were baggage.

The quality of the coaching is so much better now, the top level kids are so much better now, even average players are so much better than when I was a kid.  Even modern pros are better than the old school pros, the level of play at every stage of the game has improved.


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## chargerfan (Apr 26, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> The answer is really quite simple and is linked to the observation you make that it's not just about soccer, or even team sports.
> 
> 1) colleges, particularly the top sports and academic colleges, have been engaged in an arms race over the last 20 years...whereas before kids would just go to their local state schools the ease of travel has opened up other possibility....add to that the growing import of students from overseas (where their own programs are capped due to their merit based tracking system) and you have higher competition at the top levels in sports and academia.  Whereas my grades were good enough 25 years ago to get me into an Ivy League school, now days with the same scores I'd be laughed out of the interviews.  The increased competition has trickled down the ladder so it's no longer enough for kids to just be mediocre and why so many kids apply to colleges these days seem to have founded even their own charities.  US soccer, unlike other countries, is college driven, which is why it's no longer good enough just to be a mediocre rec or high school player.
> 
> ...



I like what you said about kids becoming a status symbol, and I 100% agree with this. It's an awful lot of pressure to put on a mini human.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Apr 27, 2017)

Soccer can be viewed as a scam but I would throw in all youth sports, and lets not forget cheer & dance.  For us, it has been worth the money.  My kid found her voice on the field.  She went from being so shy she hid behind me to someone who insists on giving you her opinion - even if you don't want it.  Soccer has given her confidence.  She has made a ton of friends along the way.  She has had fun (and frustrating) experiences to look back on.  She is developing a healthy appreciation for exercise (which is important considering her genetics).  It gives us something to talk about.  And we get a lot of time in the car to talk about life lessons.  Is it expensive - yes. Is it worth it - for us yes. If it helps her get into college - great.  I am glad she is participating.

PS  We aren't delusional about a pro career or the USWNT.  And grades are always first.


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## 46n2 (Apr 27, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> It's Not a Scam!!  The scam is with parents that believe that their kids are destined for scholarships and professional level play and coaches must make this happen.        If you think it's a scam then why spend time talking about it on this post.   It's just club soccer.  We are not talking about solving world hunger here.


agreed and well said


Kicknit22 said:


> Most of the complaints come from those with whom it hasn't worked out as  thought, planned or dare I say, promised.  Or it's for those who are just getting into the club scene and are flabbergasted that it's no longer like AYSO 3mo., and what, $90.   Club soccer is a business.  If you don't like it, you are not held at gunpoint.


Perfectly said, My BB is on his 4th year and Im happy to pay ... I believe that if your playing and paying for Club then your not one of the negative posts on here, we all know what were getting , forget the name on the shirt its about playing good ball with good players with good coaches.  
If your unhappy, leave, simple as that, go back down to rec or ayso, which I dont have any issue with by the way.  My BB likes this level of play, its competitive enough for him , our team is F1 and the battles we have between clubs is amazing and fun.  Our coach is in my opinion is top notch.  
Heres what to really think about 

Are you paying for club because *YOU* want to* SAY* your kid(s) play club or are you paying for a better overall SOCCER experience.
Are you paying for club because you feel like your BB or DD has potential and want them to reach they're peak in the sport
I pay because

My BB loves the game
I can afford it (barely @ times)
I like my team
I like my coach
I truly think my kid is getting the best attention he deserves....
Quality is what your paying for.....and we're happy!


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## bruinblue14 (Apr 27, 2017)

I'm often surprised at how many parents enter the club soccer world without doing their research and a healthy amount of skepticism. Luckily, we've had coaches around us that are honest about our player's skill level and what that means long-term. I agree totally that club soccer is a business, but I didn't realize what a small potatoes business it was until I watched "At All Costs," the documentary about AAU basketball (it's on Netflix right now). Now THAT is big business.


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## watfly (Apr 27, 2017)

bruinblue14 said:


> I'm often surprised at how many parents enter the club soccer world without doing their research and a healthy amount of skepticism.


Totally agree, but what is more surprising to me is parents that tolerate bad behavior by coaches towards kids (and/or terrible coaching)  and say nothing to the club and don't leave because they are afraid their child will miss out on some perceived future opportunity with the Club.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Apr 27, 2017)

Here's why it's not a SCAM. 
1. Better training than recreational soccer. 
2. Better chance for kids to make friends because they play together for the entire year.  Even parents can make friends. 
3. More competitive than recreational soccer. 
4. You get the full soccer experience if you love the sport. 
5. Price for the most part is similar (with some exceptions) to other hobbies/sports ($150 to $200 a month). 
6. You are not signing a 3-year or 5-year contract.  You can leave after 1 year or half season. 
7. Keeps your kids busy. I also consider club soccer as a baby sitting service for my kids to stay away from video games, tv, bad influences. 
8. Keeps your kids fit and in better shape than most other kids that do not play sports. 
9. Better chance at making high school varsity soccer. 
10. Gives your kids to dream about being a professional player.  Reality only 1% will make it but kids need to have a dream. 

My kids have only done 1 year of club soccer, and I loved it and I hated it at times.  At the end, I just want to get them to be active and stay away from drugs and other bad influences going on in middle school.    We also get a chance to travel together and talk about soccer at home.   Parents have to compete with electronic devices to get kids to talk to you.


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## SuperNatural (Apr 27, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Here's why it's not a SCAM.
> 1. Better training than recreational soccer.
> 2. Better chance for kids to make friends because they play together for the entire year.  Even parents can make friends.
> 3. More competitive than recreational soccer.
> ...


How FUN!

Just about everything you mentioned sounds recreational. Just 1 yr. huh, yeah you're on the hook good.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Apr 27, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


> How FUN!
> 
> Just about everything you mentioned sounds recreational. Just 1 yr. huh, yeah you're on the hook good.


So..... are you looking for the magic formula SuperNatural?   There's none.   I had 7 years of rec soccer for my kids, 12 teams , 10 different coaches, and during this process my kids learned....... bad soccer skills.   I had to spend tons of money on private trainers to get them to improve.  Eventually I realized that I just have to pay the club fees and get them around other kids that are better than they are and coaches that are better than dad coaches.     SuperNatural, it sounds like you need to get a part time job if you consider Club Soccer a SCAM at  $150 a month!!!!!


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## NoGoal (Apr 27, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> So..... are you looking for the magic formula SuperNatural?   There's none.   I had 7 years of rec soccer for my kids, 12 teams , 10 different coaches, and during this process my kids learned....... bad soccer skills.   I had to spend tons of money on private trainers to get them to improve.  Eventually I realized that I just have to pay the club fees and get them around other kids that are better than they are and coaches that are better than dad coaches.     SuperNatural, it sounds like you need to get a part time job if you consider Club Soccer a SCAM at  $150 a month!!!!!


Yup, your first rodeo! You must have a 2009 kid.


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## SuperNatural (Apr 27, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> So..... are you looking for the magic formula SuperNatural?   There's none.   I had 7 years of rec soccer for my kids, 12 teams , 10 different coaches, and during this process my kids learned....... bad soccer skills.   I had to spend tons of money on private trainers to get them to improve.  Eventually I realized that I just have to pay the club fees and get them around other kids that are better than they are and coaches that are better than dad coaches.     SuperNatural, it sounds like you need to get a part time job if you consider Club Soccer a SCAM at  $150 a month!!!!!


smh


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## rocket_file (Apr 27, 2017)

I'm ten years in and still loving it. 

Club soccer has been amazing on so many levels for me and my boys.

Some people don't have the perspective or ability to be happy, or to let others be happy.

Must suck.


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## rocket_file (Apr 27, 2017)

And I guess wallowing in Silver or Flight 2/3 year after year could start to suck the life out of you.

Although I think Club soccer is still a great option even in that situation.


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## Kicknit22 (Apr 27, 2017)

Wat Before my oldest made the move from AYSO to club soccer, she was into everything.  Wanted to try every sport there was available to her.  Honestly, she was very good at everything.  Just a fantastic athlete.  We did not push for the club route in any sport.  We waited for her to ask for it.  We also made sure she understood the commitment it would take, and that it would likely mean less time for any other sport.  She wanted to compete at the highest level she could in soccer, and THAT is the reason we made the move into the world of club soccer.  It was not about College, or promises of anything that club could bring her.  Simply about the level of competition.  If she stops playing after aging out, so be it.  It was all worth it. There is no SCAM at all.  The SCAM is created by the individuals and families that enter with delusions about what club soccer "should" get them.   Your kid either has it or they don't.  Realism can be hard to come to grips with.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Apr 27, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> Yup, your first rodeo! You must have a 2009 kid.


Yes, I have a 2009 and 2003.  I resisted club with the 03 until recently.  There's no way that I can go back to rec.   I started my 09 in rec for one season  and I got flash backs on how often is she going to get a new coach that is going to teach her how to do a throw in or encourage to play kickball.    I immediately put her into club so she doesn't develop the bad habits of my 03.  My 09 will be much better than my 03.


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## SuperNatural (Apr 27, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Yes, I have a 2009 and 2003.  I resisted club with the 03 until recently.  There's no way that I can go back to rec.   I started my 09 in rec for one season  and I got flash backs on how often is she going to get a new coach that is going to teach her how to do a throw in or encourage to play kickball.    I immediately put her into club so she doesn't develop the bad habits of my 03.  My 09 will be much better than my 03.


Optimistic.

There's 03s going Premier doing throw- ins that still send it down the line. Man wide- open right in front of him.


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## Footbollah (Apr 28, 2017)

Whether club is a scam depends on what the coach promises and what s/he delivers. The scam is that you won't know s/he's lying/lazy/incompetent until after you're locked in with your $2,500+ for the season.

The coaches know what noises to make to sound like they're going to do the right things, but try-outs are a poor gauge of what a coach can and will do over the course of a season. You won't know until it's too late.

In their first year of club, one of my kids got a coach with 5+ years as a head coach at this club and a well-known school and a team of olders that had several tournament wins.

When it came to our team (and our kid), the coach phoned it in, and it showed. After a year of club, the team still doesn't play much differently that they did coming in from AYSO, and the kids trying out from some of the rec teams aren't playing any worse. Then, in the middle of state cup, a block of board members basically hijacked the club, changed practice schedules so that 1/3 of our team couldn't make practices...

So the coach was lazy (or ignorant, or incompetent), and the club changed so it sucked, and the team kinda sucked (although at least the teammates enjoyed each other's company).

There are parents with delusions of grandeur, for sure, and for them, all roads lead to disappointment. But even for those of us that are looking to a club for better coaching and more competitive play, it takes real leg work to avoid getting ripped off. It was only after a season or two of watching coaches at games, tournaments and practices over several months before we learned which coaches did the work, and which ones we should avoid. (Unfortunately, most of the coaches in our neck of the woods for our age group are in the "avoid" category.)

Plus, some clubs set high minimums for team rosters just to boost dues. That's kinda scammy.


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## SuperNatural (Apr 28, 2017)

Footbollah said:


> Whether club is a scam depends on what the coach promises and what s/he delivers. The scam is that you won't know s/he's lying/lazy/incompetent until after you're locked in with your $2,500+ for the season.
> 
> The coaches know what noises to make to sound like they're going to do the right things, but try-outs are a poor gauge of what a coach can and will do over the course of a season. You won't know until it's too late.


*Arsenal FC Vision*

To provide a world class soccer program that develops world class soccer players.

http://www.arsenalfc.us/about-us/

Does this sound like a SCAM to you?

How can you produce World Class players with a pay- to- play system?


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## sandshark (Apr 28, 2017)

YES


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## SuperNatural (Apr 28, 2017)

*Arsenal FC Mission *

–To staff Arsenal FC with the best and most GREEDY soccer coaches in the Southern California area.

–To gain relentless support and participation from our parents.

–To develop and improve our facilities and equipment.

–To improve our marketing, messaging and communication.

–To be financially self sufficient.

http://www.arsenalfc.us/about-us/


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## jsmaxwell (Apr 28, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Club volleyball is right up there.  $4k for an 11 year old to play is a bit silly.
> Kids can't bump, set or hit with any consistency, but you have coaches teaching intricate rotations to kids who may never be able to jump high enough to get their hand over the net.


Whatever south OC club you went to is ripping you off. Maybe not, since it sounds like you didn't sign up.  I've found its similar to soccer in pricing. There is a decent discrepancy in clubs.  There is definitely a business model that involves higher prices.  Sometimes this is required to pay the rent on a brand new facility, for example MMTSC, Ladera SC, or "Laguna's" facility in Santa Margarita. Sometimes its to leave funds available to offer incentives to other people.

Anyone who thinks these sports clubs are making a killing is probably wrong. Is $200K/year a lot of money for running a large soccer club? I guess that depends on your point of view.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Apr 28, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


> *Arsenal FC Vision*
> 
> To provide a world class soccer program that develops world class soccer players.
> 
> ...



Heck...The Real Arsenal doesn't even do that!


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## timbuck (Apr 28, 2017)

jsmaxwell said:


> Whatever south OC club you went to is ripping you off. Maybe not, since it sounds like you didn't sign up.  I've found its similar to soccer in pricing. There is a decent discrepancy in clubs.  There is definitely a business model that involves higher prices.  Sometimes this is required to pay the rent on a brand new facility, for example MMTSC, Ladera SC, or "Laguna's" facility in Santa Margarita. Sometimes its to leave funds available to offer incentives to other people.
> 
> Anyone who thinks these sports clubs are making a killing is probably wrong. Is $200K/year a lot of money for running a large soccer club? I guess that depends on your point of view.


Yah, we are holding off on club volleyball.  My 04 kid played in a volley high league last year and played in a rec league (put on by A4 this year). Low cost. Good instruction.  Low pressure. But she's asking for something more competitive now.  
Volleyball seems to have it right with regard to try outs though.  She can't join a club team now if she wanted to (I think?).  Teams are formed in October. And she can't slap together 7 friends to play in a tournament either.


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## jsmaxwell (Apr 28, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Yah, we are holding off on club volleyball.  My 04 kid played in a volley high league last year and played in a rec league (put on by A4 this year). Low cost. Good instruction.  Low pressure. But she's asking for something more competitive now.
> Volleyball seems to have it right with regard to try outs though.  She can't join a club team now if she wanted to (I think?).  Teams are formed in October. And she can't slap together 7 friends to play in a tournament either.


Correct about the tryouts & team formation. Its in the fall during a specific week and that is it. The information is at scvavolleyball.org

Beach goes on pretty much continuously. www.cbva.org You only need 1 friend to play in a beach tournament.

Then again, why pay? With three friends, you can play at the beach for free.

If your school has it, your daughter will be eligible for the school team soon.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 28, 2017)

Nextbigthing said:


> DOC 's making over 200k a year!  They sell you on development not wins.  Some clubs having 5-6 teams at an age group.  DA 2, ECNL reserve and god knows what other team names will be next for marketing a third or fourth team. Blues, Surf, Legends, Slammers, Pats, Beach, Eagles, LA Galaxy, West Coast, Albion, SDSC.  do any of these clubs actually care about the individual player or will it always be money first, then club, then coach, then player



Club soccer is what your player and you make of it.


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## Lulu (Apr 28, 2017)

As I read a lot of the posts venting about Club, Academy and DA II, it makes me think if I am doing right by my DD.  My DD has been playing soccer since she was 4yrs old and transitioned to Club when she was 10yrs old and she is 16yrs old now.  Regardless of where she plays, I just love watching her whether it is on a mediocre team (high school) or a really solid team.  I just want her to play and enjoy the sport that she loves.  I have always asked every year, “do you still love the sport” and the response has always been “yes.”  She does want to play in college but only for one particular school and if she doesn’t make the team, she says there is always intramural soccer.  She just loves the games.

With all that said, all the chatter about playing on Flight 1, Academy/ DAII or what is the best club. For my DD, the only thing she really considers important for her is the coach, not the promises of the club/coach/team say they will provide.  She has to have that connection with the coach to play well and if she doesn’t her game is $#!?.  But don’t get me wrong, she does want to play on a solid team.  Bottom line is that it shouldn’t matter what club or team your kid is on, what matters is that they actually play and keeping the bench warm on a great club/team, isn’t playing; especially with the money I pay for club, I want my DD on the pitch.

What good is it for a college coach to come see your kid’s “great” team play and your kid is on the bench.  Figure out what your kid's objective is playing club and get your monies worth, choose a club/team that your kid will “actually play” for and don’t get caught up in all the hype of the best club or Academy/DA II team or coach promises. It is only a scam if you allow it to be.


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## SuperNatural (Apr 28, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Club soccer is what your player and you make of it.


An inspirational post-

Don't know what it means but it sounds good.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 28, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


> An inspirational post-
> 
> Don't know what it means but it sounds good.


Simple.  You get out of club soccer what your child puts into it.  Clubs are going to do what is in their best interest and as a parent our job is to make it into whatever is in the best interest of our child.  If you follow the hot trend, or the well marketed club and believe the hype it could seem like a scam.  I got a great ROI on the money that I spent so I don't think that it is a scam.  However, I know that my player's journey is not everyone's journey.  As a parent, it is up to everyone out there in the club world to make it a great experience for their player.  So as I said:

"Club soccer is what your player and you make of it."


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## SuperNatural (Apr 28, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Simple.
> 
> If you follow the hot trend, or the well marketed club and believe the hype it could seem like a scam.
> 
> "Club soccer is what your player and you make of it."


Thanks for the clarification.


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## Kicknit22 (Apr 28, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Yah, we are holding off on club volleyball.  My 04 kid played in a volley high league last year and played in a rec league (put on by A4 this year). Low cost. Good instruction.  Low pressure. But she's asking for something more competitive now.
> Volleyball seems to have it right with regard to try outs though.  She can't join a club team now if she wanted to (I think?).  Teams are formed in October. And she can't slap together 7 friends to play in a tournament either.


LMFAO!  Club Soccer is a hell of a lot cheaper than Club Volleyball.  I can imagine a volleyball forum would have a thread like this one.


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## Kicknit22 (Apr 28, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


> Thanks for the clarification.


You still don't get it, do you?


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## rocket_file (Apr 28, 2017)

Must. Not. Let. Anyone. Enjoy. Club. Soccer.

Especially the 'privileged'.


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## 46n2 (Apr 28, 2017)

LA lady fingers doesn't get it , probably wont. Can you explain your feelings more , I'd love this post to get to ten pages by Saturday night.....
Personally my wife and I seriously cant wait to watch my BB play this weekend with our *over priced factory star pro atheltic making club  ( Im joking by the way).  *

To quote a wise man "Club soccer is what your player and you make of it."  and we're enjoying every minute.  Its playing with the same lads for 4-6 years in a row, growing as a team and bbq on the weekends , sleep overs with your boys and ultimately crushing your enemies on the field !


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## SuperNatural (Apr 28, 2017)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Heck...The Real Arsenal doesn't even do that!


There's a sucker born every minute.


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## John J. Jameson (Apr 29, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


> There's a sucker born every minute.


Even my poor friend first time experience into club with Chelsea SC was extremely bad, coach left only 5 players signed the contract but 4 of them want to leave.  Chelsea won't even refund them the money but rather replace the coach and string them along with false hopes. Non of the parents want to come back, they came on board because their kids like their coach. It's sad that the Fall season is nowhere in site and they are already ripping off the parents. Looks like the new org is even worse than the old one from what it seems or better yet they are SCAMMERS. At least they are moving on and joining my DD's team.


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## younothat (Apr 29, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Club soccer is what your player and you make of it.


This is everything.

Like everything thing else in life.

Take the $ out of equation and its the same.

Even when your player(s) are on full funded or sponsored team things can happen, coaches get promoted, players come/go,  injuries, club merges, taken over by some other org, join another league,  players not getting along,  parents bickering over playing time, etc.

One things that's for sure in youth soccer is change, constant change, its how your players and you adapt to the changes that's important. 

Everybody want's to keep  teams together with  the same coach for as long as possible but normally change can be a growth opportunity or a missed opportunity and timing can be everything.


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## wildcat66 (Apr 29, 2017)

I don't think it is a scam, but i do think that the salesmanship that is utilized by clubs/coaches has a lot of ethical problems and it is more of a business than a youth development program.  Two of my DDs played since they were 8 years old and the problem was there was nothing in between the city recreation program and the club program.   Both played for a larger more prestigious club and for a smaller local club over the years.    My younger daughter played for five years and now has transitioned to another sport which she likes better and is thankfully a lot cheaper and more player/parent friendly (JMHO) . 
     My older daughter falls into the category that isn't serviced well within the community.  She is good enough to play on the top level tier one team and does, but has no real desire to play college soccer.  So I am forced to deal with the crazy, "we need to play only showcase tournaments"  and travel to nor cal, Phoenix, Vegas, etc where the teams gets ranking points and seen by college coaches crowd.  Not only do those tournaments cost more, they always tack on that "stay to play"  crap at a 200 dollar a night hotel (kickback)  and try to sell the video to show college coaches,  charge 20+ dollars for a cheap tshirt etc.  Of course you can't go there without three $80+  kits from a required vendor (kickback) and matching backpacks, hoodies, warmup jackets etc.....not to mention per diam  for the coach.    Of course then the club has 2 raffles a year where the girls are required to sell 10 tickets each at 10 bucks a ticket,  Where does that money end up?  The golf outing which the team is required to provide a gift basket for and supply a fousome to play....where does that money end up?   All on top of the two grand basic fee and  what tournament fees i got to come up with....All this because some knuckle head parents think little Sally is the next Mia Hamm.  What i think is funny is how few parents who have these  dreams of their kid playing college soccer have actually gone to a college soccer game and watched it.  Yeah it is a scam.


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## NoGoal (Apr 29, 2017)

wildcat66 said:


> I don't think it is a scam, but i do think that the salesmanship that is utilized by clubs/coaches has a lot of ethical problems and it is more of a business than a youth development program.  Two of my DDs played since they were 8 years old and the problem was there was nothing in between the city recreation program and the club program.   Both played for a larger more prestigious club and for a smaller local club over the years.    My younger daughter played for five years and now has transitioned to another sport which she likes better and is thankfully a lot cheaper and more player/parent friendly (JMHO) .
> My older daughter falls into the category that isn't serviced well within the community.  She is good enough to play on the top level tier one team and does, but has no real desire to play college soccer.  So I am forced to deal with the crazy, "we need to play only showcase tournaments"  and travel to nor cal, Phoenix, Vegas, etc where the teams gets ranking points and seen by college coaches crowd.  Not only do those tournaments cost more, they always tack on that "stay to play"  crap at a 200 dollar a night hotel (kickback)  and try to sell the video to show college coaches,  charge 20+ dollars for a cheap tshirt etc.  Of course you can't go there without three $80+  kits from a required vendor (kickback) and matching backpacks, hoodies, warmup jackets etc.....not to mention per diam  for the coach.    Of course then the club has 2 raffles a year where the girls are required to sell 10 tickets each at 10 bucks a ticket,  Where does that money end up?  The golf outing which the team is required to provide a gift basket for and supply a fousome to play....where does that money end up?   All on top of the two grand basic fee and  what tournament fees i got to come up with....All this because some knuckle head parents think little Sally is the next Mia Hamm.  What i think is funny is how few parents who have these  dreams of their kid playing college soccer have actually gone to a college soccer game and watched it.  Yeah it is a scam.


Cheap tshirt that sucks, at least ECNL and Surf  Cup sold Nike tshirts, hoodies and shorts.


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## Bernie Sanders (Apr 29, 2017)

Club soccer has been good to our family.
Is it a scam?, depends on what you get out of it, and what you expect.
Its not all dollars and cents in the end, but for us, it paid off in that regard as well.
Be realistic, and enjoy every moment you have through all of it.


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## Round (Apr 29, 2017)

I don't know what a scam is.  This isn't much different than anything else, I'm wondering if that is all there is, this is one of many of those.  

What I do know is that overr the last ten years most of us are getting less for more and there are some more people making more off of us aND many people making nothing off of this and they are the ones that have made it worth it to me.

I'm pretty sure that mr. CEO track suit and the others have gone too far, this will be okay in another 10 years.  In time for me to drag my grandaugter out, my daughter will let me.


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## coachrefparent (Apr 29, 2017)

wildcat66 said:


> I don't think it is a scam, but i do think that the salesmanship that is utilized by clubs/coaches has a lot of ethical problems and it is more of a business than a youth development program.  Two of my DDs played since they were 8 years old and the problem was there was nothing in between the city recreation program and the club program.   Both played for a larger more prestigious club and for a smaller local club over the years.    My younger daughter played for five years and now has transitioned to another sport which she likes better and is thankfully a lot cheaper and more player/parent friendly (JMHO) .
> My older daughter falls into the category that isn't serviced well within the community.  She is good enough to play on the top level tier one team and does, but has no real desire to play college soccer.  So I am forced to deal with the crazy, "we need to play only showcase tournaments"  and travel to nor cal, Phoenix, Vegas, etc where the teams gets ranking points and seen by college coaches crowd.  Not only do those tournaments cost more, they always tack on that "stay to play"  crap at a 200 dollar a night hotel (kickback)  and try to sell the video to show college coaches,  charge 20+ dollars for a cheap tshirt etc.  Of course you can't go there without three $80+  kits from a required vendor (kickback) and matching backpacks, hoodies, warmup jackets etc.....not to mention per diam  for the coach.    Of course then the club has 2 raffles a year where the girls are required to sell 10 tickets each at 10 bucks a ticket,  Where does that money end up?  The golf outing which the team is required to provide a gift basket for and supply a fousome to play....where does that money end up?   All on top of the two grand basic fee and  what tournament fees i got to come up with....All this because some knuckle head parents think little Sally is the next Mia Hamm.  What i think is funny is how few parents who have these  dreams of their kid playing college soccer have actually gone to a college soccer game and watched it.  Yeah it is a scam.


So your post essentially says, you hate all the things you describe, your kid doesn't want any of it because they don't want to play in college, but you keep them on this team/ club? I'm lost.

Why not move her down a step or two where she wouldn't suffer all these evils, would still have good (if not the highest) competition, and she could be a leader and help other players get better?


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## SuperNatural (Apr 30, 2017)

Round said:


> I'm pretty sure that mr. CEO track suit and the others have gone too far, this will be okay in another 10 years.  In time for me to drag my grandaugter out, my daughter will let me.


Let's see what happens. USA soccer is still early into the MLB Jackie Robinson days.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Apr 30, 2017)

For those that think Club Soccer is such a scam, then build a rec team with others to see if you can make it work for a full year.  Coach for free and make it happen.  I will have my kids tryout if you can make it happen. 

For those that think it's such a Scam, why even waste your time posting about it on this type of site?    If you are posting then say something like It's a SCAM and here's a team that you can join that can promise what other club teams cannot promise. 

Dont continue to inflict so much pain by viewing these post where the majority of people posting are in favor of club soccer.


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## SuperNatural (Apr 30, 2017)




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## Grace T. (Apr 30, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> For those that think Club Soccer is such a scam, then build a rec team with others to see if you can make it work for a full year.  Coach for free and make it happen.  I will have my kids tryout if you can make it happen.
> 
> For those that think it's such a Scam, why even waste your time posting about it on this type of site?    If you are posting then say something like It's a SCAM and here's a team that you can join that can promise what other club teams cannot promise.
> 
> Dont continue to inflict so much pain by viewing these post where the majority of people posting are in favor of club soccer.


I'm still waiting to hear what the anti club people replace it with. Rec/AYSO?  Well we've been through that regime. Folks really want to go back to 80s/90s?  Arguing that's better?  An academy system like in Europe?  Well then time to eliminate college soccer, forget the girls teams, forget rural regions or even cities without an MLS team and forget the late bloomers. And in cities the size of la, well if you want to play soccer you are moving your kid to Carson and better hope they are top 50 in the city at age 8.  A scholarship system like Africa and South America?  Well guess 7 year olds are off to boarding schools to learn soccer and you better have your connections. 

The anti-club people keep pointing at the clubs but they aren't your culprit. They are only a symptom of the fact the US has a collegiate oriented soccer system. It has produced enormous success on the women's side but not on the men's side professionally. But then Europe also treats its education system differently-- it is highly tracked, very bearbones by way of amenities and unlike here there is not the emphasis on everyone getting an education.


----------



## SuperNatural (Apr 30, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> I'm still waiting to hear what the anti club people replace it with. Rec/AYSO?  Well we've been through that regime. Folks really want to go back to 80s/90s?  Arguing that's better?  An academy system like in Europe?  Well then time to eliminate college soccer, forget the girls teams, forget rural regions or even cities without an MLS team and forget the late bloomers. And in cities the size of la, well if you want to play soccer you are moving your kid to Carson and better hope they are top 50 in the city at age 8.  A scholarship system like Africa and South America?  Well guess 7 year olds are off to boarding schools to learn soccer and you better have your connections.
> 
> The anti-club people keep pointing at the clubs but they aren't your culprit. They are only a symptom of the fact the US has a collegiate oriented soccer system. It has produced enormous success on the women's side but not on the men's side professionally. But then Europe also treats its education system differently-- it is highly tracked, very bearbones by way of amenities and unlike here there is not the emphasis on everyone getting an education.


What makes you think club is not recreational/ayso now?

You can smear lipstick all over that pig it's still a pig. That you choose to make the best of it is on you.


----------



## SoccerQ120 (Apr 30, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


> What makes you think club is not recreational/ayso now?
> 
> You can smear lipstick all over that pig it's still a pig. That you choose to make the best of it is on you.


You are so out of touch.  First I don't have any problem with Rec, AYSO, or C/D teams.  Demand shows there are a lot of kids that want to play soccer, but all play for different reasons.

My kids have done Rec and at the time it worked for our family.  They then started out on C teams which are way more competive than Rec teams.  Even on their C teams the coaching was better, than parent coaching on Rec, thus they developed better on a C team then they ever could have on Rec.

Not every family is looking to have their kid play college, but it doesn't mean we don't want competition for our kids to learn.  The vast majority of parents on C teams are not under illusions of grandeur and being scammed by Club Soccer.  They just want something better than Rec and are willing to pay for coaching and the environment to get it.


----------



## Grace T. (Apr 30, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


> What makes you think club is not recreational/ayso now?
> 
> You can smear lipstick all over that pig it's still a pig. That you choose to make the best of it is on you..


Well the basic problem with ayso is that it is volunteer based. And while I'm sure there are ayso coaches that are better than some club coaches the fact is they are volunteers, more dont know what they are doing, the license requirements are much less vigorous and if they have the qualifications and skills they could be doing club for the money.  For example there was a recent article in parents where the dad basically admitted knowing nothing about soccer yet coaching his daughters u7.   Or there was my ds first coach where his first coach taught him to line up in the football 3 point stance. We've also been really lucky and has great ayso coaches but none on par with our club coach and I saw many poor ones as an ayso ref. There are few of quality that would do something for free out of the goodness of their heart-- not saying there wouldn't be anyone but most people need to eat. Not saying club is perfect. Lots of problems, but what do you replace it with?


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## SuperNatural (Apr 30, 2017)

SoccerQ120 said:


> You are so out of touch.  First I don't have any problem with Rec, AYSO, or C/D teams.  Demand shows there are a lot of kids that want to play soccer, but all play for different reasons.
> 
> My kids have done Rec and at the time it worked for our family.  They then started out on C teams which are way more competive than Rec teams.  Even on their C teams the coaching was better, than parent coaching on Rec, thus they developed better on a C team then they ever could have on Rec.
> 
> Not every family is looking to have their kid play college, but it doesn't mean we don't want competition for our kids to learn.  The vast majority of parents on C teams are not under illusions of grandeur and being scammed by Club Soccer.  They just want something better than Rec and are willing to pay for coaching and the environment to get it.


Well this didn't make much sense other than paying more money to have someone show your kids how to play the game.


We have local hispanic leagues here that are more competitive than Silver Elite/Flight1 teams. ALL RECREATIONAL.


----------



## wildcat66 (Apr 30, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> So your post essentially says, you hate all the things you describe, your kid doesn't want any of it because they don't want to play in college, but you keep them on this team/ club? I'm lost.
> 
> Why not move her down a step or two where she wouldn't suffer all these evils, would still have good (if not the highest) competition, and she could be a leader and help other players get better?


     I never said that my daughter hates playing on her team or that she doesn't want any of it.  I just see a huge contingent of crazy soccer parents who seem to love shelling out money for crazy stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with getting their kid a college scholarship or even a college look but because some dude who didn't even play college soccer wearing an adidas running suit tells them its in their kids best interest.  So if you are good enough to play with the "premier, elite, gold, etc etc team members, but don't want to play college soccer just go down and play rec or something?   Baloney.  I loved the look she got a couple of times from the coach and the manager who asked how many girls had emailed college coaches before the tnmt....Coach-Why didn't you send out the letters?  My DD-Cause the colleges on the list were all a bunch of liberal arts ones that I don't want to go to?  Manager-Why not?  DD-I want to get a degree in Marine Biology or Oceanography and none of them offered that.  Coach (sarcastically)-  what is your fallback plan?  DD-I will probably look at going in the Navy or Air Force then go to school.  Do we have to send letters to college coaches at schools that dont offer what we want to do as a major?


----------



## Grace T. (Apr 30, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


> Well this didn't make much sense other than paying more money to have someone show your kids how to play the game.
> 
> 
> We have local hispanic leagues here that are more competitive than Silver Elite/Flight1 teams. ALL RECREATIONAL.


My OS used to play for a hispanic league.  My father grew up in a rec latino league in the old country. The initial idea when the kids got into soccer was my father promised to coach them (and their rec teams)...that quickly ended year 1....he didn't know what he was doing and of what he did know, it's was basically the same as AYSO kickball (he still yells "clear that ball" at my DYS's club matches).  I reffed for a stint in the Latino league...it was a bit more aggressive than the suburban AYSO leagues we've been through and lots more fouling but other than that, the level of coaching was on par with AYSO.  True, the kids are generally better (the best and the strongest tend to go more into futbal than football or baseball) and therefore they play faster running games.  They also watch more on TV and their fathers may know a move or two they can show their kids.  So yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if a U12 hispanic league team tore apart a suburban U12 club bronze team.  They could probably tear apart my YS bronze club team (and in fact, some of us hispanics on the team have joked about it).  That doesn't mean they are learning soccer, though, which leaves what do you replace it with?  In the old country, the few and the best go on scholarship and get a chance to make pro (and those that enter the scholarship system but don't make it basically wash out and are out of luck because now they are off university track...why so many pros come from the barrios)...everyone else plays rec and may have a great experience and come to love the game, but again, they don't play it in college.


----------



## SuperNatural (Apr 30, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> My OS used to play for a hispanic league.  My father grew up in a rec latino league in the old country. The initial idea when the kids got into soccer was my father promised to coach them (and their rec teams)...that quickly ended year 1....he didn't know what he was doing and of what he did know, it's was basically the same as AYSO kickball (he still yells "clear that ball" at my DYS's club matches).  I reffed for a stint in the Latino league...it was a bit more aggressive than the suburban AYSO leagues we've been through and lots more fouling but other than that, the level of coaching was on par with AYSO.  True, the kids are generally better (the best and the strongest tend to go more into futbal than football or baseball) and therefore they play faster running games.  They also watch more on TV and their fathers may know a move or two they can show their kids.  So yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if a U12 hispanic league team tore apart a suburban U12 club bronze team.  They could probably tear apart my YS bronze club team (and in fact, some of us hispanics on the team have joked about it).  That doesn't mean they are learning soccer, though, which leaves what do you replace it with?  In the old country, the few and the best go on scholarship and get a chance to make pro (and those that enter the scholarship system but don't make it basically wash out and are out of luck because now they are off university track...why so many pros come from the barrios)...everyone else plays rec and may have a great experience and come to love the game, but again, they don't play it in college.


Laughable that you don't call college soccer, kickball.


----------



## SuperNatural (Apr 30, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> My OS used to play for a hispanic league.  My father grew up in a rec latino league in the old country. The initial idea when the kids got into soccer was my father promised to coach them (and their rec teams)...that quickly ended year 1....he didn't know what he was doing and of what he did know, it's was basically the same as AYSO kickball (he still yells "clear that ball" at my DYS's club matches).  I reffed for a stint in the Latino league...it was a bit more aggressive than the suburban AYSO leagues we've been through and lots more fouling but other than that, the level of coaching was on par with AYSO.  True, the kids are generally better (the best and the strongest tend to go more into futbal than football or baseball) and therefore they play faster running games.  They also watch more on TV and their fathers may know a move or two they can show their kids.  So yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if a U12 hispanic league team tore apart a suburban U12 club bronze team.  They could probably tear apart my YS bronze club team (and in fact, some of us hispanics on the team have joked about it).  That doesn't mean they are learning soccer, though, which leaves what do you replace it with?  In the old country, the few and the best go on scholarship and get a chance to make pro (and those that enter the scholarship system but don't make it basically wash out and are out of luck because now they are off university track...why so many pros come from the barrios)...everyone else plays rec and may have a great experience and come to love the game, but again, they don't play it in college.


----------



## SoccerQ120 (Apr 30, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


>


How can we compete with your amazing commentary and examples? It sounds like you live in Recreational Nirvana.


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## SuperNatural (Apr 30, 2017)

SoccerQ120 said:


> How can we compete with your amazing commentary and examples? It sounds like you live in Recreational Nirvana.


Well you sure made it sound like club soccer was producing anything other than recreational kickball players.


----------



## SoccerQ120 (Apr 30, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


> Well you sure made it sound like club soccer was producing anything other than recreational kickball players.


No....you are so right....I have spent thousands of dollars on club soccer and all I have to show for it are rec level soccer players.

I bow down...you are the almighty soccer sensei.

I am going to pull all my kids from club soccer, save a ton of money, and watch them flourish in rec.


----------



## SuperNatural (Apr 30, 2017)

SoccerQ120 said:


> No....you are so right....I have spent thousands of dollars on club soccer and all I have to show for it are rec level soccer players.
> 
> I bow down...you are the almighty soccer sensei.
> 
> I am going to pull all my kids from club soccer, save a ton of money, and watch them flourish in rec.


lol@your defeatist attitude.


----------



## Grace T. (Apr 30, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


> Laughable that you don't call college soccer, kickball.


College soccer isn't always great soccer it's true, 'tis true.  And plenty of European nations can't believe we do soccer on the collegiate system (wasting 4 years of boys professional development).  But it has produced great times on the girls end, though it's failed on the men's side. Good luck with getting rid of it though.  You might as well say you wish for football and baseball to disappear in the US because it would be more likely.

None of the leading soccer nations though has a pure rec system...the US of the 80s/90s is the closest thing too it...maybe American Samoa (see the documentary).  The fact that you are advocating for a purely rec system puts you nearly out of step with every major and moderate soccer power (and before you say "I'm not advocating that", well then fess up and say what you want).


----------



## SuperNatural (Apr 30, 2017)

Is club soccer recreational?


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## timbuck (Apr 30, 2017)

Is rec soccer still competitive?


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## LadiesMan217 (Apr 30, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


>


Hahaha This is exactly how the U15 and U16 undefeated Blues teams play and the teams they play do not adjust to it or want any part of it; hence, they are undefeated. Move up the defense and we have offsides or play the jungle ball!!! I hate it - makes me want to puke that a club wants to win this bad. Looking forward to next season.


----------



## Anomaly (Apr 30, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


>


I think I just died a little inside watching this.


----------



## coachrefparent (Apr 30, 2017)

wildcat66 said:


> I never said that my daughter hates playing on her team or that she doesn't want any of it.


Well, great, because no one said your daughter "hates playing on her team." Where did you get this?
What I said was:


> So your post essentially says, *you hate all the things you describe*, *your kid doesn't want any of it* because they don't want to play in college, but you keep them on this team/ club?[...]


My comment was in response to your post that said:


> My older daughter falls into the category that isn't serviced well within the community. [...] So I am forced to deal with the crazy, "we need to play only showcase tournaments" and travel to nor cal, Phoenix, Vegas, etc where the teams gets ranking points and seen by college coaches crowd. Not only do those tournaments cost more, they always tack on that "stay to play" crap at a 200 dollar a night hotel (kickback) and try to sell the video to show college coaches, charge 20+ dollars for a cheap tshirt etc. Of course you can't go there without three $80+ kits from a required vendor (kickback) and matching backpacks, hoodies, warmup jackets etc.....not to mention per diam for the coach. Of course then the club has 2 raffles a year where the girls are required to sell 10 tickets each at 10 bucks a ticket, Where does that money end up? The golf outing which the team is required to provide a gift basket for and supply a fousome to play....where does that money end up? All on top of the two grand basic fee and what tournament fees i got to come up with....All this because some knuckle head parents think little Sally is the next Mia Hamm. What i think is funny is how few parents who have these dreams of their kid playing college soccer have actually gone to a college soccer game and watched it. Yeah it is a scam.


 So again I ask, *Why not move her down a step or two where she wouldn't suffer all these evils, would still have good (if not the highest) competition, and she could be a leader and help other players get better?*


----------



## John J. Jameson (May 1, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


> Well this didn't make much sense other than paying more money to have someone show your kids how to play the game.
> 
> 
> We have local hispanic leagues here that are more competitive than Silver Elite/Flight1 teams. ALL RECREATIONAL.


Too bad Hispanic league don't exist in the O.C. or do they?


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## MakeAPlay (May 1, 2017)

John J. Jameson said:


> Too bad Hispanic league don't exist in the O.C. or do they?


Yes they do exist in OC.  In Santa Ana.  Lots of talented players there.


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## John J. Jameson (May 1, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Yes they do exist in OC.  In Santa Ana.  Lots of talented players there.


Do you know what the league is called...I think it would be good for my kid to toughen up lol.


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## John J. Jameson (May 1, 2017)

John J. Jameson said:


> Do you know what the league is called...I think it would be good for my kid to toughen up lol.


Also there anything closer to Brea Area or Fullerton area?


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## MakeAPlay (May 1, 2017)

John J. Jameson said:


> Do you know what the league is called...I think it would be good for my kid to toughen up lol.


I am not sure what the name of the league is as it has been a little while since my players team got any recruits from that league.  I bet @NoGoal would know.


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## rocket_file (May 1, 2017)

SuperNatural said:


> We have local hispanic leagues here that are more competitive than Silver Elite/Flight1 teams. ALL RECREATIONAL.


Wow! Congratulations!


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## nononono (May 1, 2017)

Nextbigthing said:


> DOC 's making over 200k a year!  They sell you on development not wins.  Some clubs having 5-6 teams at an age group.  DA 2, ECNL reserve and god knows what other team names will be next for marketing a third or fourth team. Blues, Surf, Legends, Slammers, Pats, Beach, Eagles, LA Galaxy, West Coast, Albion, SDSC.  do any of these clubs actually care about the individual player or will it always be money first, then club, then coach, then player


*Absolutely ridiculous premise...to complain about a DOC's pay.
" You get what you pay for " 
They provide the experience/environment, you provide the $$$$ and player.
I'll bet you don't complain when enjoying the services of McDonalds, Jack in The Box, Carl's Jr, Arby's, Church's, Chick-Fil-A, DelTaco and many other Franchises that provide a need for your hunger....Do you know what the Owners of each of those franchises make ( If they are successful ) ?*


----------



## espola (May 1, 2017)

nononono said:


> *Absolutely ridiculous premise...to complain about a DOC's pay.
> " You get what you pay for "
> They provide the experience/environment, you provide the $$$$ and player.
> I'll bet you don't complain when enjoying the services of McDonalds, Jack in The Box, Carl's Jr, Arby's, Church's, Chick-Fil-A, DelTaco and many other Franchises that provide a need for your hunger....Do you know what the Owners of each of those franchises make ( If they are successful ) ?*


Coocoo


----------



## SIMONMAGUS (May 1, 2017)

nononono said:


> *Absolutely ridiculous premise...to complain about a DOC's pay.
> " You get what you pay for "
> They provide the experience/environment, you provide the $$$$ and player.
> I'll bet you don't complain when enjoying the services of McDonalds, Jack in The Box, Carl's Jr, Arby's, Church's, Chick-Fil-A, DelTaco and many other Franchises that provide a need for your hunger....Do you know what the Owners of each of those franchises make ( If they are successful ) ?*


lol must be a DOC.

Don't flatter yourself.


----------



## Chris Dimitrijevic (May 2, 2017)

We've done the Santa Ana league thing. Its 35.00 for the whole year , games are typically on Sunday , there was 25 teams in our bracket.  Half the teams are good, the other teams are so-so.
Positives:  My kid love to play ball so any time on the field is a plus, more games , better cardio. Played up a few years with friends he typically doesnt get to play with.  Did it make him tougher, Im not sure but he definitely had the cardio and learned to use his body more.  Play on full size fields 11v11 so alot of running.
Negatives: Sometimes teams dont show up, definitely some older kids on teams they shouldnt be on. No practice for some teams 
Overall he (and us) had a great experience and will do it again. There's a few options out there- indoor league (not a fan of) --Just make sure you research it , just throwing you kid into a new league, and expecting him to toughen up, not gonna happen...


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## sandshark (May 2, 2017)

_Youth soccer is a complete sham built for the long run scam. 
 I'm not saying 100% of everyone is following this business model, but the majority rules and proves to be pure BS. The business model is built so that the clubs and coaches can always put all the "failures" back on the children or parents from games, training, year end results, development, team selection, playing time and more. They literally have a system of almost zero accountability to protect the club reputation and its employees at all cost. 
Their mission is to build the number$ at all cost, they sale a product based on a persons pure love and passion for their children, most all of the (salesman) coaches are 1/2 ass hacks in the game, life and the business world.  They love to use special terms to build their own inflated self absorbed personas and then roll that over into the parents egos using their children as the sales tool. 
 I constantly see parents of above average intelligence buying into a coach with a below average intelligence line of BS, most of the time the parents are blinded because they are being sold using the their love for their child as the sales tool!
 Another slap in the face is when children and families buy into the coaches and clubs "loyalty program"  the coaches and clubs promote with only words and very few actions. How many times have you witnessed a family that goes and checks out the other products (clubs) that are all of a sudden faced with a coach that turns on that family using their child as a whooping post to set an example to others to never to shop outside the current team or club! They literally use children as a way to scare other children and families. It is crazy, I have seen scum bag, bully coaches verbally and mentally abuse young children to prove their point of being all mighty and in control! 
This is way to common and overlooked buy DOC's because again it is about the money and almost never about little kids. I have witnessed all the above and experienced some first hand. Again, youth soccer is not all bad but it is the majority at the higher level of play and the larger clubs! just my .2   _


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## MakeAPlay (May 2, 2017)

sandshark said:


> _Youth soccer is a complete sham built for the long run scam.
> I'm not saying 100% of everyone is following this business model, but the majority rules and proves to be pure BS. The business model is built so that the clubs and coaches can always put all the "failures" back on the children or parents from games, training, year end results, development, team selection, playing time and more. They literally have a system of almost zero accountability to protect the club reputation and its employees at all cost.
> Their mission is to build the number$ at all cost, they sale a product based on a persons pure love and passion for their children, most all of the (salesman) coaches are 1/2 ass hacks in the game, life and the business world.  They love to use special terms to build their own inflated self absorbed personas and then roll that over into the parents egos using their children as the sales tool.
> I constantly see parents of above average intelligence buying into a coach with a below average intelligence line of BS, most of the time the parents are blinded because they are being sold using the their love for their child as the sales tool!
> ...


Sounds like congress.  As with most things, you have to look out for your children because nobody else is going to do it.


----------



## sandshark (May 2, 2017)

And further more on the subject of the DOC pay..I DO NOT see an issue with that if he or she has surrounded themselves with idiots willing to allow that amount of pay. Go check into some local SD clubs DOC pay.


----------



## timbuck (May 2, 2017)

sandshark said:


> _Youth soccer is a complete sham built for the long run scam.
> I'm not saying 100% of everyone is following this business model, but the majority rules and proves to be pure BS. The business model is built so that the clubs and coaches can always put all the "failures" back on the children or parents from games, training, year end results, development, team selection, playing time and more. They literally have a system of almost zero accountability to protect the club reputation and its employees at all cost.
> Their mission is to build the number$ at all cost, they sale a product based on a persons pure love and passion for their children, most all of the (salesman) coaches are 1/2 ass hacks in the game, life and the business world.  They love to use special terms to build their own inflated self absorbed personas and then roll that over into the parents egos using their children as the sales tool.
> I constantly see parents of above average intelligence buying into a coach with a below average intelligence line of BS, most of the time the parents are blinded because they are being sold using the their love for their child as the sales tool!
> ...


Don't forget the club/coach that sends his players to the opposing team after a game to ask for phone numbers.  Let 9 year old girls sell Girl Scout cookies.  Not soccer dreams.


----------



## bruinblue14 (May 2, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Don't forget the club/coach that sends his players to the opposing team after a game to ask for phone numbers.  Let 9 year old girls sell Girl Scout cookies.  Not soccer dreams.


Seriously?!? That's a new low.


----------



## chargerfan (May 2, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Don't forget the club/coach that sends his players to the opposing team after a game to ask for phone numbers.  Let 9 year old girls sell Girl Scout cookies.  Not soccer dreams.


Making them recruit their own replacement?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 2, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> Making them recruit their own replacement?


Sounds like Disneyland.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (May 2, 2017)

espola said:


> Coocoo


No, capitalist.


----------



## Soccer43 (May 3, 2017)

nononono said:


> *Absolutely ridiculous premise...to complain about a DOC's pay.
> " You get what you pay for "
> They provide the experience/environment, you provide the $$$$ and player.
> I'll bet you don't complain when enjoying the services of McDonalds, Jack in The Box, Carl's Jr, Arby's, Church's, Chick-Fil-A, DelTaco and many other Franchises that provide a need for your hunger....Do you know what the Owners of each of those franchises make ( If they are successful ) ?*


So, I am confused now, are you saying that club soccer is like overpriced and unhealthy fast food?


----------



## Footbollah (Jun 14, 2017)

watfly said:


> It's certainly buyer beware with Club soccer.





chargerfan said:


> They promise little Chloe a college scholarship and maybe national team, and the optics of having a coach with an accent make it seem extra exclusive. And imagine the Instagram pictures of her with all her medals! Won't the other parents be so jealous? Chloe is the best of all the 3rd graders!


Even for those of us that do not have our eyes on college scholarships, ODP or championship cups, and are just looking for a half decent coach to let their love of the game rub off on the kids a little, it's not easy to weed out the bogus coaches, _if you even have a choice to begin with_. On the westside, if you can find a club that isn't dysfunctional (SMU was OK, until a few months ago, when the G2006 parents hijacked the club to serve that team; Breakers is OK, but it's small, has a worn out field space, and fees are high despite not having assistants), FCLA (overly-involved parents can be a problem, and they always seem to keep one hand on your checkbook), Autobahn (not-quite-benign neglect) and FC England (maybe, if one of their 3 teams per gender matches your kid's age)), you still might not find a decent coach within that club. The few coaches I've liked are not coaching my kids' age group.

I just can't bring myself to relocate just to find a decent coach for my kids age group yet.


----------



## Overlap (Jun 14, 2017)

Footbollah said:


> Even for those of us that do not have our eyes on college scholarships, ODP or championship cups, and are just looking for a half decent coach to let their love of the game rub off on the kids a little, it's not easy to weed out the bogus coaches, _if you even have a choice to begin with_. On the westside, if you can find a club that isn't dysfunctional (SMU was OK, until a few months ago, when the G2006 parents hijacked the club to serve that team; Breakers is OK, but it's small, has a worn out field space, and fees are high despite not having assistants), FCLA (overly-involved parents can be a problem, and they always seem to keep one hand on your checkbook), Autobahn (not-quite-benign neglect) and FC England (maybe, if one of their 3 teams per gender matches your kid's age)), you still might not find a decent coach within that club. The few coaches I've liked are not coaching my kids' age group.
> 
> I just can't bring myself to relocate just to find a decent coach for my kids age group yet.


Footbollah, find a club that's not dysfunctional and it will be within a few months of commitment!


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## xav10 (Jun 14, 2017)

Soccer coaches obviously don't do it for the money. It's low pay. Like teachers, some are good and some are bad, but don't complain about their compensation.


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## Grace T. (Jun 14, 2017)

Footbollah said:


> Even for those of us that do not have our eyes on college scholarships, ODP or championship cups, and are just looking for a half decent coach to let their love of the game rub off on the kids a little, it's not easy to weed out the bogus coaches, _if you even have a choice to begin with_. On the westside, if you can find a club that isn't dysfunctional (SMU was OK, until a few months ago, when the G2006 parents hijacked the club to serve that team; Breakers is OK, but it's small, has a worn out field space, and fees are high despite not having assistants), FCLA (overly-involved parents can be a problem, and they always seem to keep one hand on your checkbook), Autobahn (not-quite-benign neglect) and FC England (maybe, if one of their 3 teams per gender matches your kid's age)), you still might not find a decent coach within that club. The few coaches I've liked are not coaching my kids' age group.
> 
> I just can't bring myself to relocate just to find a decent coach for my kids age group yet.


I have to say this is the hardest thing about the club soccer experience with DS I've found.  Despite the little voice that tells me sometimes to look for where the grass is greener and possibly offers less drama, more wins, or higher competition, I have to keep repeating to myself the mantra "we are so lucky to have such great coaches, for however long it may last", particularly given how young he is.


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## Grace T. (Jul 18, 2017)

An interesting article on CNN about the LA Galaxy recruitment.  The Galaxy has been actively trying to recruit a marquee striker and goalkeeper since the spring, but apparently they are looking at the also-rans from the English clubs.  The article says one of the reasons the Galaxy are doing this (as opposed to looking at the US clubs) is because the US club system is college oriented and too few players want to give up the college education.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/18/football/la-galaxy-david-beckham-transfer-scouting/index.html


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## jpeter (Jul 18, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> An interesting article on CNN about the LA Galaxy recruitment.  The Galaxy has been actively trying to recruit a marquee striker and goalkeeper since the spring, but apparently they are looking at the also-rans from the English clubs.  The article says one of the reasons the Galaxy are doing this (as opposed to looking at the US clubs) is because the US club system is college oriented and too few players want to give up the college education.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/18/football/la-galaxy-david-beckham-transfer-scouting/index.html


Yeah makes you wonder why Galaxy is spending 4 $million a year on their academy system have 7+ home grown players on 1st team yet get blown out 6-2 by small market real salt lake in there latest MLS game.   

They should look in the mirror and put more time into developing quality players and not just poaching from others.   

The Texans Houston just beat the the Galaxy in the U17/18 da final because there better at developing and team work despite the fact they have a fraction of resources or higher profile players compared to the Galaxy.


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## mkg68 (Jul 18, 2017)

sandshark said:


> _Another slap in the face is when children and families buy into the coaches and clubs "loyalty program"  the coaches and clubs promote with only words and very few actions. How many times have you witnessed a family that goes and checks out the other products (clubs) that are all of a sudden faced with a coach that turns on that family using their child as a whooping post to set an example to others to never to shop outside the current team or club! They literally use children as a way to scare other children and families.   _


I've watched one club based in Carlsbad cut whole families because one superstar changed clubs. The funny thing is, that the reaction on our team was "Well, it's not cool, but they couldn't have been surprised." Really? A kid got cut midseason from a team they loved because their older sister changed clubs? Ridiculous.


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## JackZ (Jul 18, 2017)

jpeter said:


> The Texans Houston just beat the the Galaxy in the U17/18 da final because there better at developing and team work despite the fact they have a fraction of resources or higher profile players compared to the Galaxy.


I'm far from an LAG homer, but just want to point out that in that final the U17/18 Galaxy roster had 10+ U16-U14s.


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## jpeter (Jul 18, 2017)

JackZ said:


> I'm far from an LAG homer, but just want to point out that in that final the U17/18 Galaxy roster had 10+ U16-U14s.


Yeah they might have the best 15yr in the DA #40 LeBron.   He plays for Mexico YNT though & likely not domesticly in the MLS either so that investment doesn't get returned with solidarity comps or goes elsewhere.   That's the pattern for the da, best players have to leave eventually to keep developing.  

Half dozen playing up is good but what happen to the regulars?  Bringing down the 98' big Striker who's been playing for the Galaxy 2 says what?


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## Lambchop (Jul 18, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Yes they do exist in OC.  In Santa Ana.  Lots of talented players there.


Ya, if the players show up, and you actually have a game with a fair ref.  Lot's of luck with that.


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## jpeter (Jul 18, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> Ya, if the players show up, and you actually have a game with a fair ref.  Lot's of luck with that.


The hack a Shaq leagues,  where player cards,  foul calling are optional and offside is saved for other sunday football leagues. Fun to play jungle ball once in a while.


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## MakeAPlay (Jul 18, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> Ya, if the players show up, and you actually have a game with a fair ref.  Lot's of luck with that.


You can complain all you want to or you can recognize every soccer opportunity in front of your player for what it is.....  An opportunity. 

 Good luck to you and your player.


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## Art (Jul 18, 2017)

watfly said:


> It's certainly buyer beware with Club soccer.  My son has played for one of the clubs and currently plays on another club on your list.  While the current club is not perfect, it is light years better than the previous club.  In one club the DOC verbally assaulted a parent of a tier 1 player because the player wanted to tryout for another club.  You would also receive the wrath if your child wanted to guest for another club, despite the fact that the club regularly brought in guest players.  In contrast, in my kid's current club the relatively well known DOC has no problem coaching a U8 C team.
> 
> It's easy to blame the clubs but parents have to shoulder some of blame.  Among other things, the whole scholarship mentality, particularly for kids that aren't even in high school yet, makes parents easy prey for the clubs.  These clubs post all their senior college commitments (whether by athletic scholarship or not) on their website and the parents eat it up like educational crack.
> 
> Everyone has to make the value decision for themselves as to which club suits them the best.  Plenty of organized sports where the cost is substantially more expensive, although on a per hour basis Club soccer maybe the most expensive particularly if you get the old school coach that still believes in laps, lines and lectures.


omg the bit on educational crack, made me laugh, so exact, parents are the bait here for the clubs.

Also being a fullt time coach and that being your career aint bad, jusy the intentions and unreal profit making is a bit worrisome...


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## TFA-WLA (Jul 21, 2017)

That really depends. Over the past 3 years I've gotten deeply involved in Club Soccer with my son. We came from AYSO which was good for 1 season but than time to move on. He evolved quickly past what they had to offer. 
The next step was Club. We checked out many clubs around LA and heard many,many,many stories from parents about all kinds of issues. The truth is that once you move to competitive sports the game changes to some degree. The player really needs to be able to develop and put time in outside of practice not because someone is telling him he has to, but because he wants to. He's drawn to developing his skills and IQ of the game. I saw it with my son and as a result got 110% behind his development. 
We were very fortunate to have an excellent coach his first year in Club. Who taught him great skills and vastly improved his soccer IQ. That year his team won only 2 games all season but the respect I developed for that coach was immense. He not only taught my son great lessons he taught me great lessons as well. That coach is now a head academy coach at LAFC Acadmey and my son after only 2 years is playing on a Pre Academy level team. 
I attribute that development to the coaching he received his first year in Club. It's set the standard not in wins and losses but in character and passion for the game and development. 
That is what Club Soccer offers at its best. 
An opportunity for our kids to develop not only as players but as people. It's our responsibility as parents to monitor and be involved in the process. To find the right Club the right coach and the best style of play for our kids. 
The money. I've run budgets for teams and quickly understood what things cost. Our current team practices 3 times a week. Takes 2 weeks off a year and plays Tournaments and league games as well as Friendly matches all year round. The fields in LA are not cheap to rent especially for the amount of hours we need them. The coach gives over 400 hours a year to the team not including what he does behind the scenes. That's a tremendous amount of time. And the tournaments all cost as well. 
But, in the end the experience has been great. We have met people from all over the area and have had opportunities to travel and play in other locations that have been really fun for my son and me as well. 
Will he go on and play pro? Who knows. But what I say to him is someone gets to do it so there's no reason it can't be you if you put in the work. My cousins daughter just got a scholarship to play soccer at a school in VA. Would have never had happened probably without Club soccer. 
So in the end I am a fan of Club Soccer. It's not perfect. Not all coaches are good coaches. Not all clubs are good clubs. But it sure beats the hell out of sitting on the couch playing Grand Theft Auto by themselves all day.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 21, 2017)

It's a simple answer.  It's not a scam. Compare the cost to Hockey, Golf, Volleyball, and plenty of other sports.   
http://www.lohud.com/story/sports/2016/09/21/youth-sports-cost/90313836/

Those who say is a "Scam" are those who thought their kids were going to be the best and going pro or getting a full ride. 

Personally I dont like paying $2,000 a year per child but I  truly enjoy the experience of watching them practice, watching them play, make friends, and watching them stay fit.  

My kids are bench players but they push themselves just to become starters. I push them to to try harder because that's life.  You need to try hard to get that promotion or get that job.    

Those who say is a Scam on this blog, I question why they are spending time writing about it and staying on this site.


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