# Is your club financially sound?



## notintheface (Aug 1, 2020)

So California hit half a million infections yesterday, and we're on track for a million infections by mid September, and the entire state being infected by February. Yes I understand that Rt will change over time-- but those are the numbers we see today.

We're down 2 million jobs year over year and unemployment is up 400% year over year, in California alone. To say that things are bleak is the understatement of the year. There are many, many knock-on effects that are coming-- for example, commercial real estate is about to have a 500 megaton bomb dropped on it as more and more tenants go out of business. Once the foreclosure moratorium is over, home prices for everywhere that doesn't have an ocean view will plummet.

All of this is to say-- there is (or was) an entire industry based around youth soccer in Southern California. Many many clubs, non-profit or no, were based on the simple equation of getting parents to pay more overall per team than the coaches were getting paid. Many clubs were also bringing in profitable tournaments, again based on the simple equation of getting other teams (and parents) to pay extremely high entry fees to get competition and the shot at a $45 trophy and medal package.

These clubs may have barely squeaked by with their collected 2020 fees, but there is a gigantic iceberg ahead. Estimates are that club revenue from 2021 player fees may drop as much as 80% overall as parents simply will not have the disposable income to drop a couple grand for club fees, then hotel costs, gas, parking, and so on. There are many clubs in Southern California that don't have a rainy day fund, much less a rainy year fund. Any money coming in from associations with MLS/EPL/etc will be drying up as those clubs need to rein in their own spending because of their lack of revenue. Club revenue associated with sponsorships is going to dry up as those companies cut any costs that aren't absolutely required for their core business. Clubs that keep lower costs based on benefactors covering yearly salaries etc, that money will be drying up as well.

Have you spoken to your club's treasurer lately? Are they prepared for the huge drop in revenue that's coming their way? What is your club doing to handle that gigantic freight train bearing down on them?


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## espola (Aug 1, 2020)

notintheface said:


> So California hit half a million infections yesterday, and we're on track for a million infections by mid September, and the entire state being infected by February. Yes I understand that Rt will change over time-- but those are the numbers we see today.
> 
> We're down 2 million jobs year over year and unemployment is up 400% year over year, in California alone. To say that things are bleak is the understatement of the year. There are many, many knock-on effects that are coming-- for example, commercial real estate is about to have a 500 megaton bomb dropped on it as more and more tenants go out of business. Once the foreclosure moratorium is over, home prices for everywhere that doesn't have an ocean view will plummet.
> 
> ...


I don't know why a local soccer club would have large expense problems unless they have borrowed money for something.  The BOD I served on saw our financials every month, and they were pretty much on a pay as you go basis, with the rec program expenses paid almost exactly out of the fees charged, and competitive program in a similar situation but with bigger numbers because of the coach salary expenses.  The biggest ongoing expenses were a few hundred a month to an administrator and an annual fee to an accountant to prepare our non-profit report.  The only physical assets we had were game equipment and the lockers to keep that stuff in.

Now there may be big organizations that have put DOCs or similar officers on salary contracts or who have made big commitments to buy real estate or other expensive stuff.  Perhaps they need to go bankrupt and clear the path for a better way.


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## notintheface (Aug 1, 2020)

espola said:


> The BOD I served on saw our financials every month, and they were pretty much on a pay as you go basis, with the rec program expenses paid almost exactly out of the fees charged, and competitive program in a similar situation but with bigger numbers because of the coach salary expenses.


If the club is getting a good deal on facilities expenses-- not having to deal with field upkeep, or paying a local school district, whatever-- then maybe I could see them surviving just by dialing down the number of teams and number of coaches to meet the new demand level, whatever that is. Maybe the smaller privateer clubs will be able to weather the extreme shitshow that's about to hit us. That's probably a good thing. The funny thing is that I think AYSO is probably in the best potential shape just because of the volunteer nature. Plenty of teams won't be getting new uniforms this year, that's for sure. Maybe the mega-clubs like Surf, Legends, Slammers, etc, wind up fragmenting into smaller regional privateers, who knows.


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## espola (Aug 1, 2020)

notintheface said:


> If the club is getting a good deal on facilities expenses-- not having to deal with field upkeep, or paying a local school district, whatever-- then maybe I could see them surviving just by dialing down the number of teams and number of coaches to meet the new demand level, whatever that is. Maybe the smaller privateer clubs will be able to weather the extreme shitshow that's about to hit us. That's probably a good thing. The funny thing is that I think AYSO is probably in the best potential shape just because of the volunteer nature. Plenty of teams won't be getting new uniforms this year, that's for sure. Maybe the mega-clubs like Surf, Legends, Slammers, etc, wind up fragmenting into smaller regional privateers, who knows.


We used all city and school district fields and paid nothing for them unless we wanted to have the lights turned on.


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## Tyrone (Aug 1, 2020)

Wut up G’s? Deeze clubs be fine cuz they still be chargin full price. Da parents will keeps on payin cuz they be crazy and think thems kids be goin to play 4 Real Madrid. Just bein real wit you.


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## notintheface (Aug 1, 2020)

espola said:


> We used all city and school district fields and paid nothing for them unless we wanted to have the lights turned on.


That's a hell of a good deal. Guessing yours is one of the cheaper clubs in whatever area you're in.


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## Paul Spacey (Aug 2, 2020)

As with any industry; when a profitable gravy train suddenly stops rolling, some organizations go out of business. That will certainly be the case for some teams/clubs in the coming months (I would imagine some may have already folded) as payments dry up when parents realize a fall season isn’t happening (despite what they may have been promised).

Paying to keep clubs afloat (and look after coaches) is honorable in a sense but let’s not pretend that will continue in perpetuity; parents are only going to fund it for so long without actually playing games or having a meaningful season (one of the biggest clubs in LA just suspended payments from parents, although they did get PPP to help financially).

I’d love to look back in a couple of months and say to myself, “you were talking shit Paul” if the season is up and running and everything is rosy; I just think that’s a massive stretch for even the most positive optimist based on where we are right now. My guess is that by the time we get back to competitive play, team/club numbers will be noticeably down and given the saturation of the youth soccer market, maybe that’s not a bad thing.


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## Ellejustus (Aug 2, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> As with any industry; when a profitable gravy train suddenly stops rolling, some organizations go out of business. That will certainly be the case for some teams/clubs in the coming months (I would imagine some may have already folded) as payments dry up when parents realize a fall season isn’t happening (despite what they may have been promised).
> 
> Paying to keep clubs afloat (and look after coaches) is honorable in a sense but let’s not pretend that will continue in perpetuity; parents are only going to fund it for so long without actually playing games or having a meaningful season (one of the biggest clubs in LA just suspended payments from parents, although they did get PPP to help financially).
> 
> I’d love to look back in a couple of months and say to myself, “you were talking shit Paul” if the season is up and running and everything is rosy; I just think that’s a massive stretch for even the most positive optimist based on where we are right now. My guess is that by the time we get back to competitive play, team/club numbers will be noticeably down and given the saturation of the youth soccer market, maybe that’s not a bad thing.


Spot on.  Most clubs rely on big tournaments to keep things floating on the soccer ocean.  No tournaments has caused many clubs to take on water.  If you dont have a pump to get the water out, you might not make it.  This actually goes for any business.  Small business is getting slammed.......


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## Footy30 (Aug 2, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> As with any industry; when a profitable gravy train suddenly stops rolling, some organizations go out of business. That will certainly be the case for some teams/clubs in the coming months (I would imagine some may have already folded) as payments dry up when parents realize a fall season isn’t happening (despite what they may have been promised).
> 
> Paying to keep clubs afloat (and look after coaches) is honorable in a sense but let’s not pretend that will continue in perpetuity; parents are only going to fund it for so long without actually playing games or having a meaningful season (one of the biggest clubs in LA just suspended payments from parents, although they did get PPP to help financially).
> 
> I’d love to look back in a couple of months and say to myself, “you were talking shit Paul” if the season is up and running and everything is rosy; I just think that’s a massive stretch for even the most positive optimist based on where we are right now. My guess is that by the time we get back to competitive play, team/club numbers will be noticeably down and given the saturation of the youth soccer market, maybe that’s not a bad thing.


If only more coaches were like you.... I say this in all sincerity (I've read all your posts). I've been fortunate to come across a few coaches like you but You're all few and far between that's for sure.


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## espola (Aug 2, 2020)

notintheface said:


> That's a hell of a good deal. Guessing yours is one of the cheaper clubs in whatever area you're in.


I like to think that we held the fees down in the neighboring clubs.  Back when I first got involved with the club, mid 70's, nobody got paid but the board members and coaches got a discount on their kid's fees.  We actually had some good coaches back then.  By comparison, I knew nothing.  The first coach I assisted was an immigrant from Holland when he was a teenager so he knew the game and also knew American life.  He quit after my first year working with him because an adult women's team "hired" him (not much of a salary but they paid all his travel expenses and there were side-benefits).


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## AstroWorld (Aug 2, 2020)

Coach Paul,

I am very familiar with the West side soccer scene and it has been an interesting couple of months.

To my knowledge, there are 3 soccer clubs on the Westside providing a service during this time.  Autobahn, Santa Monica Surf and Ayso United.  All 3 clubs are providing individual training in a safe environment following social distant protocols through the Fields of Santa Monica committee in small groups. 

Next week will be the 6th week that these clubs have been providing individual training to their players following Cal South protocols and city guidelines. Santa Monica Surf last week also suspended payments from their families in this tough time. 

The 3 other west side clubs who are also still operating.  LA Breakers and La Bulls have been holding practices at a field in Chatsworth which is 45 minutes away.  While not ideal the families seem to be committing to make the trek for the trainings and committed to finding a safe way to return to play. 

I live by clover park in Santa Monica and have walk around it daily. To my knowledge for the last 2 months I have seen many private trainers and your club FC England holding illegal practices. Last week I even saw you hosted a full on scrimmage with boys and girls teams from your club with no masks! 

I struggle to follow why you have such a strong opinion on the local clubs and leagues, yet you don’t follow any mandated procedures and run the risk of losing your license and more importantly putting children, families and coaches at risk.  

Please be more sensible and spend less time on the board throwing stones when you need that time to read up on a Cal South back to play protocols and safety procedures! 




Paul Spacey said:


> As with any industry; when a profitable gravy train suddenly stops rolling, some organizations go out of business. That will certainly be the case for some teams/clubs in the coming months (I would imagine some may have already folded) as payments dry up when parents realize a fall season isn’t happening (despite what they may have been promised).
> 
> Paying to keep clubs afloat (and look after coaches) is honorable in a sense but let’s not pretend that will continue in perpetuity; parents are only going to fund it for so long without actually playing games or having a meaningful season (one of the biggest clubs in LA just suspended payments from parents, although they did get PPP to help financially).
> 
> I’d love to look back in a couple of months and say to myself, “you were talking shit Paul” if the season is up and running and everything is rosy; I just think that’s a massive stretch for even the most positive optimist based on where we are right now. My guess is that by the time we get back to competitive play, team/club numbers will be noticeably down and given the saturation of the youth soccer market, maybe that’s not a bad thing.


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## Paul Spacey (Aug 2, 2020)

AstroWorld said:


> Coach Paul,
> 
> I am very familiar with the West side soccer scene and it has been an interesting couple of months.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your enlightening post (unfortunately containing inaccuracies and plain lies but that’s normal on a public forum).

Let me just be straight with you; if you live near Clover Park, by all means come and talk to me face to face if you see me. I didn’t grow up in a soft culture of hiding behind a keyboard; any time there is something to be said, I’ll say it to someone’s face and give them chance to respond in a conversation. Message boards aren’t real conversations and the opportunity to lie or paint a picture of bullshit is easier than a face to face chat. I have found this board to be extremely helpful and the members, generally speaking, are good people who care about kids and the game. I enjoy participating in the discussions.

Where in my post did I throw stones? I made a clear (and in my opinion accurate) statement about the current club soccer situation. Have I spoken out in the past on this forum? Yes. I will call people out if they are clearly taking the piss out of parents and players. Nobody should be immune from criticism when it comes to honest families and the development of young people.

For your benefit and for those reading this, let me straighten it out for you. During this time of Covid, I’ve personally witnessed players and coaches from every single club (including AYSO) you mention at Clover Park running individual, group or team practices. I’ve even seen emails from local clubs encouraging coaches to do so in an ‘informal’ way not connected to the club. FC England has had official team practices at Santa Monica High School but you conveniently chose not to mention that in your post.

I don’t have an issue with teams or coaches being out there; Clover is one of few parks that are open and for the sanity of kids (and parents) it is important IMO that the players have an outlet of some kind.

When you post inaccuracies and lies, you discredit yourself and it’s tough for others to then take you seriously.

I suspect I know who you are (a board member from another local club if my guess is correct). If you’d like to have an adult conversation, come and talk to me or give me a call. My number is easy to find!


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## AstroWorld (Aug 2, 2020)

Paul,

This photo from your Club Instagram says it all.

One of two things are happening here;

1.  You are holding illegal private trainings without insurance at clover park.

2.  You are holding team trainings without insurance at clover park.

Both are not in accordance with Cal South return to play protocols. (This happened to be the day the scrimmage without masks took place)

I dont see anything on your IG about Samo High practices.  Are those practice or camps?


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## blam (Aug 2, 2020)

In Ayso, each team keep separate accounts. At the end of season the leftover money is refunded.

If clubs substracts the coaching fee and list out appropriate administration fee and refund the rest (cancelled league and tournament fees) I would think most parents will be happy that this is fair.


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## pokergod (Aug 2, 2020)

notintheface said:


> So California hit half a million infections yesterday, and we're on track for a million infections by mid September, and the entire state being infected by February. Yes I understand that Rt will change over time-- but those are the numbers we see today.
> 
> We're down 2 million jobs year over year and unemployment is up 400% year over year, in California alone. To say that things are bleak is the understatement of the year. There are many, many knock-on effects that are coming-- for example, commercial real estate is about to have a 500 megaton bomb dropped on it as more and more tenants go out of business. Once the foreclosure moratorium is over, home prices for everywhere that doesn't have an ocean view will plummet.
> 
> ...


Bake sale.


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## Paul Spacey (Aug 2, 2020)

AstroWorld said:


> Paul,
> 
> This photo from your Club Instagram says it all.
> 
> ...


I love how you’ve painted your own picture based on a goal and a smoothie 

I have zero knowledge of any scrimmages taking place with our players, unless they are private pickup games (going on every night at Clover btw) and that is nothing to do with me or our club. If there is something clear and obvious that you see, by all means call me and point it out so I can address it. Better still, approach whoever is on the field and question them.

Again, please have the balls to just call me or come talk to me rather than hiding behind your Astro pseudonym. I think you realize that I know who you are so it’s easier for both of us if you just come speak to me. I’ll buy you a beer and you can advise me on best practices and regulations during this difficult time!

Regarding the Samohi practices that you don’t see on our IG, feel free to message me and I’ll send you the permit so you can put your mind at rest.

One of the main reasons I’ve used my ‘real’ name from the outset of joining this board is so that I am transparent. If I post a message or reply, people know who I am and they realize that my messages will be coming from a potentially biased point of view (subconsciously or intentionally) given my club affiliation. At least it is transparent though and that helps with credibility. If you would care to share with us your club affiliation(s), the discussion becomes much more transparent for everyone.


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## Chalklines (Aug 2, 2020)

Imagine the hit financially some of these coaches are taking already with no games. They rely on a certain group of parents paying extra to see their kids play more.


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## AstroWorld (Aug 2, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> I love how you’ve painted your own picture based on a goal and a smoothie
> 
> I have zero knowledge of any scrimmages taking place with our players, unless they are private pickup games (going on every night at Clover btw) and that is nothing to do with me or our club. If there is something clear and obvious that you see, by all means call me and point it out so I can address it. Better still, approach whoever is on the field and question them.
> 
> ...



Coach Paul,

You being on a public forum as yourself, is your choice.  You don’t get a medal for doing it and you can’t shame others that don’t.  You have spent the last 2 posts ranting about you being you on public forum and asking me to reveal myself.  You continue to deflect the fact your club is holding illegal practices at Clover Park.

In post 1 you talk about how clover is a great place for the kids and parents.  Post 2 you talk about nightly scrimmages that go down at clover.  All the activities at clover without a permit or insurance are illegal per Cal South Return to play protocol.  You should not be there witt you players for team trainings or 1 on 1 trainings.  You are the Director for your club and you set the standard.

Having your goal set up with soccer balls for a smoothie photo shoot are not smart in the current club soccer environment.  Make no mistake, that is clover park in the back ground.  Also, it is very obvious who runs the IG account for your club based on all those stay home shirtless training videos you have posted.  As a coach who wants to be respected and taken seriously as a small club on the west side.  I would highly recommend doing your club trainings with a shirt on.  You have 16 & 17 year girls in a your club and should be ashamed of yourself for posting those.


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## Paul Spacey (Aug 2, 2020)

AstroWorld said:


> Coach Paul,
> 
> You being on a public forum as yourself, is your choice.  You don’t get a medal for doing it and you can’t shame others that don’t.  You have spent the last 2 posts ranting about you being you on public forum and asking me to reveal myself.  You continue to deflect the fact your club is holding illegal practices at Clover Park.
> 
> ...


Wow. When someone acts like a childish moron, my engagement with them is done. If you return to acting like an adult and not a petulant child, I’m happy to discuss anything openly, as I’m used to doing on this public forum. Again, credibility is a word you should lookup.

In terms of being taken seriously as a coach and as a club; I don’t even need to address that. The community here speaks with their actions and support on a daily basis. Oh btw; in case you didn’t notice, we live right next to the beach. ‘Shirtless’ isn’t a big thing on the Westside and it’s very normal within the workout community.

Have a good night.


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 2, 2020)

AstroWorld said:


> Paul,
> 
> This photo from your Club Instagram says it all.
> 
> ...


Wow. This may be the worst retort ever.


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 2, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> Wow. When someone acts like a childish moron, my engagement with them is done. If you return to acting like an adult and not a petulant child, I’m happy to discuss anything openly, as I’m used to doing on this public forum. Again, credibility is a word you should lookup.
> 
> In terms of being taken seriously as a coach and as a club; I don’t even need to address that. The community here speaks with their actions and support on a daily basis. Oh btw; in case you didn’t notice, we live right next to the beach. ‘Shirtless’ isn’t a big thing on the Westside and it’s very normal within the workout commun





AstroWorld said:


> Coach Paul,
> 
> You being on a public forum as yourself, is your choice.  You don’t get a medal for doing it and you can’t shame others that don’t.  You have spent the last 2 posts ranting about you being you on public forum and asking me to reveal myself.  You continue to deflect the fact your club is holding illegal practices at Clover Park.
> 
> ...


Okay, please explain this. Despite AW's lack of credibility.


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## Paul Spacey (Aug 2, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Okay, please explain this. Despite AW's credibility.


Explain what exactly, just so I’m clear?


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 2, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> Explain what exactly, just so I’m clear?


The pic with no shirt.


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## Paul Spacey (Aug 2, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> The pic with no shirt.


Again, so I'm clear. What is it you want me to explain about it? Are you offended? If not, are you offended on behalf of someone else? Interested to hear your viewpoint.

The workouts are open for anyone to join in, hence the use of IG LIVE and not Zoom; they are not FC England specific workouts although some of our players join in for additional training. What I wear (unless I'm naked of course) isn't the point; the challenging nature of the workouts is the point. If someone doesn't like it, the solution is simple. Don't watch it. 

If my stalker is who I think it is, he would benefit greatly from doing some of the workouts himself although not without his shirt; he might scare the neighbors.


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 2, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> Again, so I'm clear. What is it you want me to explain about it? Are you offended? If not, are you offended on behalf of someone else? Interested to hear your viewpoint.
> 
> The workouts are open for anyone to join in, hence the use of IG LIVE and not Zoom; they are not FC England specific workouts although some of our players join in for additional training. What I wear (unless I'm naked of course) isn't the point; the challenging nature of the workouts is the point. If someone doesn't like it, the solution is simple. Don't watch it.
> 
> If my stalker is who I think it is, he would benefit greatly from doing some of the workouts himself although not without his shirt; he might scare the neighbors.


Okay, look. I respect you. I know that other poster is trolling and stirring the pot.  But, that individual pulled something off the internet.


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## Paul Spacey (Aug 2, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Okay, look. I respect you. I know that other poster is trolling and stirring the pot.  But, that individual pulled something off the internet.


Sorry, my reply to you was supposed to be light hearted. Sometimes doesn’t carry across well in writing.

Yeah the screenshot he pulled is from IG. Nothing to hide, it’s just a workout. Maybe he likes me, who knows


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 2, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> Sorry, my reply to you was supposed to be light hearted. Sometimes doesn’t carry across well in writing.
> 
> Yeah the screenshot he pulled is from IG. Nothing to hide, it’s just a workout. Maybe he likes me, who knows


Okay. Going forward wear a shirt and knickers.


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 3, 2020)

notintheface said:


> That's a hell of a good deal. Guessing yours is one of the cheaper clubs in whatever area you're in.


That was also in the 1980’s......


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## Eagle33 (Aug 3, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Okay. Going forward wear a shirt and knickers.


I completely agree. It is very unprofessional.


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## espola (Aug 3, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> That was also in the 1980’s......


I worked with that club for two years in the 70's, and then when my kids were involved as players and coaches from 1996 to 2015.


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## messy (Aug 3, 2020)

AstroWorld said:


> Coach Paul,
> 
> You being on a public forum as yourself, is your choice.  You don’t get a medal for doing it and you can’t shame others that don’t.  You have spent the last 2 posts ranting about you being you on public forum and asking me to reveal myself.  You continue to deflect the fact your club is holding illegal practices at Clover Park.
> 
> ...


Dude, did your kid get cut from his club or something? Jeez.
And by the way, the gentleman looks like he could be in his 40’s and illustrating the benefits of his workout program by showing his 6-pak, etc. seems reasonable to me.


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## messy (Aug 3, 2020)

messy said:


> Dude, did your kid get cut from his club or something? Jeez.
> And by the way, the gentleman looks like he could be in his 40’s and illustrating the benefits of his workout program by showing his 6-pak, etc. seems reasonable to me.


Just looked it up. 
He’s 40.
Keep inspiring...


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## happy9 (Aug 3, 2020)

messy said:


> Just looked it up.
> He’s 40.
> Keep inspiring...


It's just as inspiring with a shirt on.  In today's environment, it's reckless to to do something that suggests any type of sexual connotation when dealing with minors.  It's likely nothing was meant by not wearing  a shirt but perceptions sink ships - why even go there? 

For the record, I'm not offended by him not wearing a shirt, but would question if my DDs coach decided to take off his shirt during a workout.   Doesn't pass the common sense test if the intent is to appear professional.   If you work with minors, keep your shirt on. Today's hyper political environment is just waiting to consume you.

Something to think about.  Just my opinion.


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## Paul Spacey (Aug 3, 2020)

happy9 said:


> It's just as inspiring with a shirt on.  In today's environment, it's reckless to to do something that suggests any type of sexual connotation when dealing with minors.  It's likely nothing was meant by not wearing  a shirt but perceptions sink ships - why even go there?
> 
> For the record, I'm not offended by him not wearing a shirt, but would question if my DDs coach decided to take off his shirt during a workout.   Doesn't pass the common sense test if the intent is to appear professional.   If you work with minors, keep your shirt on. Today's hyper political environment is just waiting to consume you.
> 
> Something to think about.  Just my opinion.


And IMO that kind of weak-minded approach is exactly why we have such a hyper political environment. I don’t take part in it. If you think a shirtless workout justifies using the words ‘sexual connotation’ then we’re just on a completely different page. 

We’ve got to stop with this nit-picking of minor things; it’s making kids mentally weaker and more anxious about everything. Your DD isn’t part of the club so you’ve got nothing to worry about. I respect your opinion; I just don’t share your approach and mindset. All good.


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## espola (Aug 3, 2020)

happy9 said:


> It's just as inspiring with a shirt on.  In today's environment, it's reckless to to do something that suggests any type of sexual connotation when dealing with minors.  It's likely nothing was meant by not wearing  a shirt but perceptions sink ships - why even go there?
> 
> For the record, I'm not offended by him not wearing a shirt, but would question if my DDs coach decided to take off his shirt during a workout.   Doesn't pass the common sense test if the intent is to appear professional.   If you work with minors, keep your shirt on. Today's hyper political environment is just waiting to consume you.
> 
> Something to think about.  Just my opinion.


Sexual connotation?  Dude, you need to get out more.

Oh, wait...


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## Ellejustus (Aug 3, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> And IMO that kind of weak-minded approach is exactly why we have such a hyper political environment. I don’t take part in it. If you think a shirtless workout justifies using the words ‘sexual connotation’ then we’re just on a completely different page.
> 
> We’ve got to stop with this nit-picking of minor things; it’s making kids mentally weaker and more anxious about everything. Your DD isn’t part of the club so you’ve got nothing to worry about. I respect your opinion; I just don’t share your approach and mindset. All good.


Another IG Report without context.  Tough times we live in these days.  I had a mom back in 8th grade send me a pic my dd posted. It was obvious she was being watched like a hawk from some.  Peceptions of some does not equal truth.  Innuendo games is gnarly.


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## Ellejustus (Aug 3, 2020)

I have Lin Wood's personal cell if anyone needs it.  Dont be afraid of the big bad wolf.


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## Mosafie (Aug 3, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> And IMO that kind of weak-minded approach is exactly why we have such a hyper political environment. I don’t take part in it. If you think a shirtless workout justifies using the words ‘sexual connotation’ then we’re just on a completely different page.
> 
> We’ve got to stop with this nit-picking of minor things; it’s making kids mentally weaker and more anxious about everything. Your DD isn’t part of the club so you’ve got nothing to worry about. I respect your opinion; I just don’t share your approach and mindset. All good.


It's not a minor thing. The fact that you think doing drill without a shirt is minor means you may not be ready to lead young men and women. 

Put your clothes on and act like a coach. Do you ever see professional soccer coachs dancing around doing drills half naked in any professional or college environment?

It's all about perception. Be professional. 

If you IG is private and these videos are not meant to be seen by players then you can do whatever you want. However if they are meant to interact with players then its unprofessional.

Minor things isn't not picking. It's what will separate good from great players.


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## Paul Spacey (Aug 3, 2020)

Mosafie said:


> It's not a minor thing. The fact that you think doing drill without a shirt is minor means you may not be ready to lead young men and women.
> 
> Put your clothes on and act like a coach. Do you ever see professional soccer coachs dancing around doing drills half naked in any professional or college environment?
> 
> ...


Bless you. No worries, we’re cut from a different cloth. I agree with you on minor things related to actual soccer IQ. However, if you focus on pointless minor things, you lose sight of the real goal. If you’ve ever played sport at any solid level, you’ll understand that.

We’re all different. For those who are uncomfortable or want to pander to a hyper politically correct environment, I’m not the coach for you. Good job we have thousands of coaches and clubs to choose from. Each to their own. Respect.


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## timbuck (Aug 3, 2020)

I know of a coach that would send text messages to his female 12 year old players at 5:30 am as he was heading to the gym.  He was trying to motivate and inspire.  Maybe it did -  But i think it's extremely creepy for a 26 year old man to text 12 year old girls for any reason.  (Not sure if he had a shirt on or not).


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## happy9 (Aug 3, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> And IMO that kind of weak-minded approach is exactly why we have such a hyper political environment. I don’t take part in it. I*f you think a shirtless workout justifies using the words ‘sexual connotation’ then we’re just on a completely different page.*
> 
> We’ve got to stop with this nit-picking of minor things; it’s making kids mentally weaker and more anxious about everything. *Your DD isn’t part of the club so you’ve got nothing to worry about.* I respect your opinion; I just don’t share your approach and mindset. All good.


You do you -we agree on some things and don't understand each other other things - that's why we live where we live.  Please re read what I said.  I did not say it justifies sexual connotation, I am saying that to some, it could suggest it - then read the next sentence as to my opinion.

 I agree that we are nit picking and that kids need to be more resilient BUT Someone would be foolish and naive to think something as innocuous as conducting an officially sanctioned workout without  out without a shirt with minors wouldn't become a target in  today's environment. You don't have "partake" in today's ridiculous political environment, but you can certainly become collateral damage. 

 I teach my kids to be resilient, not be thinned skin (2nd place is first loser), and have common sense.  It's also likely just as important for them to be aware of their environment and be emotionally intelligent.

You have a choice, as do others.  And you are right, my DD is not in your club, and it would likely be her choice.  Based on your comments , I would certainly not choose your club but others may.  Choices, gotta luv em.


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## Eagle33 (Aug 3, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> Bless you. No worries, we’re cut from a different cloth. I agree with you on minor things related to actual soccer IQ. However, if you focus on pointless minor things, you lose sight of the real goal. If you’ve ever played sport at any solid level, you’ll understand that.
> 
> We’re all different. For those who are uncomfortable or want to pander to a hyper politically correct environment, I’m not the coach for you. Good job we have thousands of coaches and clubs to choose from. Each to their own. Respect.


I really feel bad that you are missing the point. It's not about politically correct or living by the beach, etc. 
It's about Professionalism.


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## happy9 (Aug 3, 2020)

espola said:


> Sexual connotation?  Dude, you need to get out more.
> 
> Oh, wait...


Dude, I'm trying -  Wait, since I don't live in your state, we get out often, which is nice.  Was just in your state last week, people were in fact everywhere, and with no shirts on.  I didn't see any officially sanctioned shirtless training being conducted on any beach though. For the record, while on the beach/boat, shirts were optional for the fam, all chose to not wear shirts.


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## Paul Spacey (Aug 3, 2020)

As with everything, it depends on your personal perception and whether or not you conform to what society asks of you or whether you live your own truth and life.

I’m gonna sidestep this thread now. Some of you have raised fair points and I respect them. Take it easy lads.


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## Banana Hammock (Aug 3, 2020)

happy9 said:


> I teach my kids to be resilient, not be thinned skin (2nd place is first loser), and have common sense.


Doubtful


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## Surf Zombie (Aug 3, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I know of a coach that would send text messages to his female 12 year old players at 5:30 am as he was heading to the gym.  He was trying to motivate and inspire.  Maybe it did -  But i think it's extremely creepy for a 26 year old man to text 12 year old girls for any reason.  (Not sure if he had a shirt on or not).


This opens up a really interesting conversation about what is and what isn’t acceptable communication practices between an adult and his players. My 13 year old daughter and her teammates (and the team manager mother of one of the girls) are on a group chat on an app that the coach uses to communicate directly with the players as a group.  Motivational stuff, good job at the game today, weekly running challenge, bring both jerseys to practice tonight, that kind of stuff. He sought permission from the parents before setting it up and laid the ground rules of no one one texts and that the team manger would be copied on everything. We were fine with it, as were all of the other parents, but I can see how some people have different levels of comfort.


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## happy9 (Aug 3, 2020)

Banana Hammock said:


> Doubtful


You got me. Now I'm waiting for your eloquent and insightful reason for your doubt.


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## Ellejustus (Aug 3, 2020)

Surf Zombie said:


> This opens up a really interesting conversation about what is and what isn’t acceptable communication practices between an adult and his players. My 13 year old daughter and her teammates (and the team manager mother of one of the girls) are on a group chat on an app that the coach uses to communicate directly with the players as a group.  Motivational stuff, good job at the game today, weekly running challenge, bring both jerseys to practice tonight, that kind of stuff. He sought permission from the parents before setting it up and laid the ground rules of no one one texts and that the team manger would be copied on everything. We were fine with it, as were all of the other parents, but I can see how some people have different levels of comfort.


Age is key.  Context is key too.  I dont know this Coach and he seems open and honest.  That's my read but i could be wrong.  It sound like a turf war going on.  Santa Monica is a beach town and everyone is walking around half naked.  If it's one on one with a 17 or younger, not good.  I'm not guessing that, but could be wrong.  I would from now on have your shirt on with minors around.    If he's doing an online zoom training sessions with multiple ages and everyone is there like this one ab one my dd works out to, then no problem from me.


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## timbuck (Aug 3, 2020)

Would it be ok for a female coach to post workout videos to her male players in a bikini top?


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## Eagle33 (Aug 3, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Would it be ok for a female coach to post workout videos to her male players in a bikini top?


I'm sure non of the male players would mind that


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 3, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Dude, I'm trying -  Wait, since I don't live in your state, we get out often, which is nice.  Was just in your state last week, people were in fact everywhere, and with no shirts on.  I didn't see any officially sanctioned shirtless training being conducted on any beach though. For the record, while on the beach/boat, shirts were optional for the fam, all chose to not wear shirts.


Magoo  hasn’t left his basement since the turn of the century.....


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## happy9 (Aug 3, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Magoo  hasn’t left his basement since the turn of the century.....


Who is Magoo?  Age appropriate?


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 3, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Who is Magoo?  Age appropriate?


Espola  = Magoo (the old cartoon character)


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## Ellejustus (Aug 3, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Who is Magoo?  Age appropriate?


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## espola (Aug 3, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Espola  = Magoo (the old cartoon character)


Short, bald, fat, nearsighted - looks just like me.


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