# What is included in yearly fees?



## Trojan75 (Sep 6, 2018)

So I recently moved my dd to a new club. The old club use to pay for National cup and all refs fees from season, league cup, state and national cup, NPL,CRL and etc. Friendlies on our own. This new club we are responsible for our own ref fees.  Is that common? Did we just have it good on the other club?  I mean $1200 to $1500player fee for  a season and can’t cover ref fees for the season?  What is your opinion?


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## espola (Sep 6, 2018)

Trojan75 said:


> So I recently moved my dd to a new club. The old club use to pay for National cup and all refs fees from season, league cup, state and national cup, NPL,CRL and etc. Friendlies on our own. This new club we are responsible for our own ref fees.  Is that common? Did we just have it good on the other club?  I mean $1200 to $1500player fee for  a season and can’t cover ref fees for the season?  What is your opinion?


Depends on the club.


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## jpeter (Sep 6, 2018)

Ref fees are normally separate unless they are included/bundled into a league fees but most aren't.  $5 a player is typical so no biggie,the $10 to park at some places like silverlakes, well  things do add up but at least they have drinks and food for sale there. 

I would ask your manager what's included, if that also covers the coaching fees for the year?  A overall yearly projected budget would be nice to see so no surprises going forward.

Player or club fees can vary starting at $250-500 and going up from there. Team fees are basically everything else and some clubs with lower club fees play the coaches out of the team fees budget instead.


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## Primetime (Sep 6, 2018)

Trojan75 said:


> So I recently moved my dd to a new club. The old club use to pay for National cup and all refs fees from season, league cup, state and national cup, NPL,CRL and etc. Friendlies on our own. This new club we are responsible for our own ref fees.  Is that common? Did we just have it good on the other club?  I mean $1200 to $1500player fee for  a season and can’t cover ref fees for the season?  What is your opinion?


It varies club to club and really even team to team within clubs.   I try and include everything in our team fees so that way I don't have to go back to ask for anything at all.   A team fee budget "should be" exactly that,  A Budget so people can plan and actually budget on a specific amount.   I include everything we do as a team and Anything we might need throughout the year.   Friendlies Ref fees, every tournament and league,  soccer balls,  all the way down to bank fees for the team act.   Paid monthly through 10 months (Mar-Dec)


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## forsomuch (Sep 6, 2018)

Most clubs will throw in all the anger, regret and frustration you can stomach!


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## Grace T. (Sep 6, 2018)

Trojan75 said:


> So I recently moved my dd to a new club. The old club use to pay for National cup and all refs fees from season, league cup, state and national cup, NPL,CRL and etc. Friendlies on our own. This new club we are responsible for our own ref fees.  Is that common? Did we just have it good on the other club?  I mean $1200 to $1500player fee for  a season and can’t cover ref fees for the season?  What is your opinion?


Old club included, new club not included.  As to the total fee, the biggest variables are the fee to the club (to cover the DOC and other admin salaries), the coaching fees (and whether you have an AC or GK trainer) and how many tournaments you do (each being at least around $500 a pop).


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## timbuck (Sep 6, 2018)

forsomuch said:


> Most clubs will throw in all the anger, regret and frustration you can stomach!


And they dont charge extra for the frustration!!! (Yet)


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## jpeter (Sep 6, 2018)

Club fees & team fees should be itemized since there are different.

Like @Primetime mentioned a good manager will lay everything out, share the budget speadsheet, and request  bulk payment so they don't have to constantly ask every week for the ref fees or whatever else is needed.  Can't tell you how much a good team manager is worth but there are one of the keys to having less stress and frustration IMO.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Sep 6, 2018)

jpeter said:


> Club fees & team fees should be itemized since there are different.
> 
> Like @Primetime mentioned a good manager will lay everything out, share the budget speadsheet, and request  bulk payment so they don't have to constantly ask every week for the ref fees or whatever else is needed.  Can't tell you how much a good team manager is worth but there are one of the keys to having less stress and frustration IMO.


Would you say something similar to this?


 My friend sent me his just modified it a bit.


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## Chalklines (Sep 6, 2018)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> Would you say something similar to this?
> View attachment 3120
> 
> My friend sent me his just modified it a bit.


What level is this for.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Sep 6, 2018)

Chalklines said:


> What level is this for.


This is how much he charge for his old Flight 1 team and keeps about the same price with his Flight 3. If I remember correctly this was for a 9v9 team with 12 players.


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## timbuck (Sep 6, 2018)

If an individual coach is doing his own budget for a team, it's somewhat common to add a few lines to the above file:
1.  Scholarship funds
2. Coach Budget -  for things like ice cream, pizza, little gift/prize items.
3. Equipment Budget -  Game balls, EZ Up, Bench, etc
4.  Spring league and/or friednlies
5.  GK Trainer - usually split among the club at certain age groups
6.  Other trainers -  maybe you bring someone in once in a while to add to your sessions.
7.  Surplus Funds -  "Just in Case" -  In case a kid moves after they have made their first payment and you can't fill the spot.  An extra tournament pops up that you want to play in.  All of your cones get stolen from your car.  etc.

Some coaches will wrap some of these items into their "Training Compensation" bucket and spend money out of that.  Or they'll have these items are separate budget items and if they don't use it they'll either:

Keep it
Give a refund
Apply it towards next year.
(I think that each of these are fine options)


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## GKDad65 (Sep 6, 2018)

Included?!  The only thing "included" is the privilege to wear an overpriced club jersey on the sidelines.
Everything else, is EXTRA!


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## mirage (Sep 6, 2018)

Trojan75 said:


> ....The old club use to pay for National cup and all refs fees from season, league cup, state and national cup, NPL,CRL and etc. Friendlies on our own. .............I mean $1200 to $1500player fee for  a season and can’t cover ref fees for the season?....


We have been with club that includes more and less, including having to pay for ref fees.  At the end of the day, when one adds up all the costs, its pretty similar.

FWIW, I would love to have club fee as low as $1,500 but I suspect it probably is a factious number to get replies...

Trolling?.....


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## jpeter (Sep 6, 2018)

GKDad65 said:


> Included?!  The only thing "included" is the privilege to wear an overpriced club jersey on the sidelines.
> Everything else, is EXTRA!


Well as long as we're being real, this is the result of being "included"


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## Trojan75 (Sep 6, 2018)

mirage said:


> We have been with club that includes more and less, including having to pay for ref fees.  At the end of the day, when one adds up all the costs, its pretty similar.
> 
> FWIW, I would love to have club fee as low as $1,500 but I suspect it probably is a factious number to get replies...
> 
> Trolling?.....


The club fee is that alone. But we paid for  CRL NPL other tournaments,uniforms,coach room and board parking etc.  I’m nearly saying Ref fees. Yeah it’s more money on top of the club fees.


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## Simisoccerfan (Sep 7, 2018)

So in that example the coach is making only $5,000 in training fees and has to pay his own travel fees for league and tournaments out of his own pocket.  Yikes


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## Deadpoolscores! (Sep 7, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> So in that example the coach is making only $5,000 in training fees and has to pay his own travel fees for league and tournaments out of his own pocket.  Yikes


Yes he pays for his own traveling with the monthly fees he gets. He's not a greedy bastard like a lot of coaches. Yet what is ironic some parents still whine about the coaching fees lol. Parents always fine something to complain about all the time.


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## younothat (Sep 7, 2018)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> Yes he pays for his own traveling with the monthly fees he gets. He's not a greedy bastard like a lot of coaches. Yet what is ironic some parents still whine about the coaching fees lol. Parents always fine something to complain about all the time.


Good Coaches are underpaid mostly IMO although  I've been told the C licenses & higher make at least 1.2K per team per month or more ,  the other major expense besides what's been posted in the Facilities and field rentals.

For example we have friends who have told us that a half of a good turf field runs about 5k for the season 3x a week.  There is a field rental item in their budget

Accommodations sometimes those get pricey and the travel expenses can add up quickly when your going to Seattle/ Vancouver for the weekend.


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## Keeper07 (Sep 7, 2018)

The mega club fees are eye gouging but it is what it is. IMHO I believe it’s worth it on a flight 1 level. I wouldn’t pay those prices for the lower flights, I’d put my kid in a local small club or ayso than to overpay for a name. Also, one thing that irks me is to pay for a coach’s travel expense in addition to the monthly fee.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Sep 7, 2018)

Keeper07 said:


> The mega club fees are eye gouging but it is what it is. IMHO I believe it’s worth it on a flight 1 level. I wouldn’t pay those prices for the lower flights, I’d put my kid in a local small club or ayso than to overpay for a name. Also, one thing that irks me is to pay for a coach’s travel expense in addition to the monthly fee.


It's funny you mention the mega club because he coaches for one of them and does flight 1 for that price but only for the younger age.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 7, 2018)

Keeper07 said:


> The mega club fees are eye gouging but it is what it is. IMHO I believe it’s worth it on a flight 1 level. I wouldn’t pay those prices for the lower flights, I’d put my kid in a local small club or ayso than to overpay for a name. Also, *one thing that irks me is to pay for a coach’s travel expense in addition to the monthly fee.*


Then join AYSO then. Sure there is exceptions, but if many coaches did not have their travel expenses paid for they'd basically be running around 4 days per week for free. Quite the contradiction in your posting.


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## Simisoccerfan (Sep 7, 2018)

Keeper07 said:


> The mega club fees are eye gouging but it is what it is. IMHO I believe it’s worth it on a flight 1 level. I wouldn’t pay those prices for the lower flights, I’d put my kid in a local small club or ayso than to overpay for a name. Also, one thing that irks me is to pay for a coach’s travel expense in addition to the monthly fee.


Once your kids is playing at the level where a Daddy coach no longer cuts it I am perfectly fine with coaches getting paid for their time and expenses.  Coaching is essentially a part time job and then you can add the travel expenses to that.   It is unreasonable to expect that coaches (especially with no parental ties to a team) will do this for nothing.   The should be getting $15k to $20K per team plus expenses.


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## OCsoccerdad7777 (Sep 7, 2018)

Nothing wrong with charging for club. It's a business and everyone has to get paid. It's what you get that is the real factor.

Coaches should get paid more and club take less. But coaches should also do more scrimmages for their teams (every weekend if dedicated or every other min) and more importantly coach them the right way.

If developing properly, a team should be moving up in flights every year or MAX 2 especially if starting in F3. Of course dependant on how many players are lost, etc. And obviously once you get to F1 status things change.
If you don't see that happening, and stuck in some flights and aren't competitive, I'd find another coach.


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## Keeper07 (Sep 7, 2018)

futboldad1 said:


> Then join AYSO then. Sure there is exceptions, but if many coaches did not have their travel expenses paid for they'd basically be running around 4 days per week for free. Quite the contradiction in your posting.


I get it but I’ve seen in other teams that the travel fee for board and misc during a tournament is charged separately. I’d rather it be included in the monthly fee than to make it an additional cost separate from what parents pay. Some coaches make pretty good money off of soccer especially when the norm is that they have at least 3 teams so I wouldn’t say they’d be doing it all for free. I’m not saying all coaches do this but when I first heard of this (meaning when I first joined a mega club) I was irritated by it, would I leave because of it - no way.


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## Keeper07 (Sep 7, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Once your kids is playing at the level where a Daddy coach no longer cuts it I am perfectly fine with coaches getting paid for their time and expenses.  Coaching is essentially a part time job and then you can add the travel expenses to that.   It is unreasonable to expect that coaches (especially with no parental ties to a team) will do this for nothing.   The should be getting $15k to $20K per team plus expenses.


Your saying they should be getting 15-20k per team? Is this take home money? Or is this including tournament fees, league fees, etc?


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## Deadpoolscores! (Sep 7, 2018)

Keeper07 said:


> Your saying they should be getting 15-20k per team? Is this take home money? Or is this including tournament fees, league fees, etc?


He's talking about take home when they are done for year.


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## skillz91745 (Sep 10, 2018)

What about league? For example, a buddy of mine told me the other day that his 2009 son was uninvited by the "new team mom" > now team manager" last Friday before a Saturday game. From all accounts you click on the CSL website (not my child) and the kids name appears so the kid is defiantly on the 12 man roster but was basically asked to stay home. So my question is if you pay for league can you get asked to stay home? Is it common practice? From all accounts the answer is no, but what is your perspective. 

skillz 



Primetime said:


> It varies club to club and really even team to team within clubs.   I try and include everything in our team fees so that way I don't have to go back to ask for anything at all.   A team fee budget "should be" exactly that,  A Budget so people can plan and actually budget on a specific amount.   I include everything we do as a team and Anything we might need throughout the year.   Friendlies Ref fees, every tournament and league,  soccer balls,  all the way down to bank fees for the team act.   Paid monthly through 10 months (Mar-Dec)


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## timbuck (Sep 10, 2018)

skillz91745 said:


> What about league? For example, a buddy of mine told me the other day that his 2009 son was uninvited by the "new team mom" > now team manager" last Friday before a Saturday game. From all accounts you click on the CSL website (not my child) and the kids name appears so the kid is defiantly on the 12 man roster but was basically asked to stay home. So my question is if you pay for league can you get asked to stay home? Is it common practice? From all accounts the answer is no, but what is your perspective.
> 
> skillz


Wait what?
Kid is on the team.  And told not to show up for a game?  With no explanation?
Possible reasons for this might include:
1.  Too many on the roster and each kid takes a turn skipping a game.
2.  Payment issues
3.  Kid is extremely disruptive at practice
4.  Parents are extremely disruptive at games or practice
5. The kid told his teammates and/or coach that he is quitting

Any of the above should have probably been addressed with the parents before being told to stay home.


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## jpeter (Sep 10, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Wait what?
> Kid is on the team.  And told not to show up for a game?  With no explanation?
> Possible reasons for this might include:
> 1.  Too many on the roster and each kid takes a turn skipping a game.
> ...


No, Not normal

However, with late adds can be card, registration, league deadlines that come up.

Might want to get player accustomed first or get some payment $$ before there welcomed at a game.


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## skillz91745 (Sep 10, 2018)

Thanks for the response. I reiterate not my kid, but I would not take my son or daughter to that club. Also, I took a screen shot and sent your response to my buddy. 7 v 7 12 man roster and the kid was uninvited a day before by the team mom/manager without an explanation by the coach but was invited to a futsal game on Friday with other kids from the team so in regard to your your last 3 points if the parents were disruptive or the coach was told he was quitting then why would he or she be uninvited but invited to the futsal game, and two i do not believe any of the last three you noted occurred.  Either way I told to my buddy an explanation should have been given last week at practice not during a group/team text the next day. 



timbuck said:


> Wait what?
> Kid is on the team.  And told not to show up for a game?  With no explanation?
> Possible reasons for this might include:
> 1.  Too many on the roster and each kid takes a turn skipping a game.
> ...


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## timbuck (Sep 10, 2018)

jpeter said:


> No, Not normal
> 
> However, with late adds can be card, registration, league deadlines that come up.
> 
> Might want to get player accustomed first or get some payment $$ before there welcomed at a game.


Also a good point -  maybe there was a player card issue.  (Never printed.  Cal south had him on a different team.  The team mom lost the card out at the bar the night before)


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## Deadpoolscores! (Sep 10, 2018)

skillz91745 said:


> Also, I took a screen shot and sent your response to my buddy. 7 v 7 12 man roster .


That coach is a scum bag for having 12 players on a 7v7, that's a good example that he wants more money.  On 7v7 it should be a 10 man roster tops to allow players to have more playing time.


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## skillz91745 (Sep 11, 2018)

That’s exactly what I told my buddy. Glad I never took my son there.


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