# High School v Club soccer dates for 2016



## Buckyballer (Nov 2, 2016)

Does anyone have a link to the exact end of club soccer for the high school players? The CIF site doesn't address club and I want to send my team a link (manager of a 2001 team).  

Thanks in advance for your help!


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## rdzl (Nov 2, 2016)

Not sure of the exact date but typically thanksgiving weekend is the last GO for club players playing high school soccer.


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## espola (Nov 2, 2016)

In San Diego Section, in the past, Monday after Thanksgiving is the first day allowed for contests.  Players who stay with their club or other outside team beyond that date may not play in a contest for a school until after their last club game date, with some exceptions, which have varied from year to year.  Other sections may have different rules.  Check with local CIF section office for up to date rules.


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## Buckyballer (Nov 2, 2016)

espola said:


> In San Diego Section, in the past, Monday after Thanksgiving is the first day allowed for contests.  Players who stay with their club or other outside team beyond that date may not play in a contest for a school until after their last club game date, with some exceptions, which have varied from year to year.  Other sections may have different rules.  Check with local CIF section office for up to date rules.


I started with the CIF rules - they give me the date of the first game you can play with High School but NOT the last date you can play with your club.  The CIF date on the website is Nov. 14 for a scrimmage and Nov. 21st for a game.  It gives me Feb. 8th as the date of the last game.  I'm pretty sure though that a club player can play bast the 21st - can play in a tournament after Thanksgiving for example - it is the club date I want. Thanks for your help though.


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## espola (Nov 2, 2016)

espola said:


> In San Diego Section, in the past, Monday after Thanksgiving is the first day allowed for contests.  Players who stay with their club or other outside team beyond that date may not play in a contest for a school until after their last club game date, with some exceptions, which have varied from year to year.  Other sections may have different rules.  Check with local CIF section office for up to date rules.


Correction - from CIF SDS soccer preseason memo sent to all coaches and published on line at http://www.cifsds.org/uploads/2/3/3/6/23368454/2016_pre-season_soccer.pdf

9. COMPETITION DATES
November 23, 2016 - First possible interscholastic scrimmage.
November 25, 2016 – First possible contest.
February 17, 2017 - Last possible pre-playoff competition.​November 25 is Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving.  It would be interesting to watch what would happen to any coaches who tried to schedule games that weekend.


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## espola (Nov 2, 2016)

Buckyballer said:


> I started with the CIF rules - they give me the date of the first game you can play with High School but NOT the last date you can play with your club.  The CIF date on the website is Nov. 14 for a scrimmage and Nov. 21st for a game.  It gives me Feb. 8th as the date of the last game.  I'm pretty sure though that a club player can play bast the 21st - can play in a tournament after Thanksgiving for example - it is the club date I want. Thanks for your help though.


Again limiting my response to San Diego Section - it depends on how your local Section rules handle players overlapping their seasons.  Historically, the seasons were not allowed to mix, but there are exceptions and rule changes every year.  As an example from my own experience - one of my son's high school teammates did not join the roster until after Christmas because his club team was playing in the Disney holiday tournament.  My son played in the same tournament, but on an ODP team, so he did not have to wait.


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## Eagle33 (Nov 2, 2016)

Buckyballer said:


> I started with the CIF rules - they give me the date of the first game you can play with High School but NOT the last date you can play with your club.  The CIF date on the website is Nov. 14 for a scrimmage and Nov. 21st for a game.  It gives me Feb. 8th as the date of the last game.  I'm pretty sure though that a club player can play bast the 21st - can play in a tournament after Thanksgiving for example - it is the club date I want. Thanks for your help though.


It's actually very simple...Once you played first official HS game (pre-season or season), you CAN NOT play for your club team until HS season is over. It could be in February or March, depending if you are on Varsity or not and how far you go into Playoffs.


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## Friesland (Nov 2, 2016)

Eagle33 said:


> It's actually very simple...Once you played first official HS game (pre-season or season), you CAN NOT play for your club team until HS season is over. It could be in February or March, depending if you are on Varsity or not and how far you go into Playoffs.


I think that is until "your" players HS season is over. In the past, at least, some kids have been known to choose returning to club over completing HS season. Often with consequences of course, but the problem is on the HS side, not the club side - or was, at least. Perhaps things have changed.


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## espola (Nov 2, 2016)

Friesland said:


> I think that is until "your" players HS season is over. In the past, at least, some kids have been known to choose returning to club over completing HS season. Often with consequences of course, but the problem is on the HS side, not the club side - or was, at least. Perhaps things have changed.


High school Seniors, even those who have not played HS because of DA rule against it, have been known to quit their DA teams in November or December and join their HS team for one last fling.  By that time DA has little left to offer, and CIF doesn't care.


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## Friesland (Nov 2, 2016)

espola said:


> High school Seniors, even those who have not played HS because of DA rule against it, have been known to quit their DA teams in November or December and join their HS team for one last fling.  By that time DA has little left to offer, and CIF doesn't care.


Exactly. It has cut both ways as well. I've known of a few Juniors who felt they needed one last good look leave a play-off HS team to do Vegas or other "showcase" tournies.

It used to be (and I would guess still is) that you become ineligible for further HS play "that season" once you return to an official club competition. If your coach doesn't care, you can always play again as a senior, after you are "in" a college and club is irrelevant. I know on the boys side some boys clubs (DA?) have more restrictions about HS play, but on the girls side most clubs don't (didn't anyway) restrict HS play too much.


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## twoclubpapa (Nov 2, 2016)

Significantly different rules between the San Diego and Southern sections regarding outside participation.  Go to the primary source documents for each section and read for yourselves.

SDS Green Book:  http://www.cifsds.org/uploads/2/3/3/6/23368454/greenbook_2016-17__1_.pdf
SS Blue Book:  http://cifss.org/resources/blue-book/

San Diego Section:  HS players in their season of sport cannot even practice with an outside (i.e.club) team.  See Rule 600.1.c (pg 47 of the SDS Green Book).  The penalty is becoming ineligible for twice the number of games or practices they participated in with their club (Rule 601.1.A on pg 49).

Southern Section:  HS players in their season of sport cannot play a game with an outside (i.e.club) team.  See Rule 600 of the SS Blue Book.  The penalty is becoming ineligible for twice the number of games they participated in with their club team.

Season of sport:  The definition is the same for both SDS and SS.  "The season of sport for any individual student is that period of time which elapses between the student’s first participation in an interscholastic contest and the student’s final participation in a contest for that particular sport in that season.  (Rule 504.A).

Note that both sections permit one scrimmage and it doesn't count as a contest (i.e. game).  Scrimmages must be conducted prior to the first game of the season (non-league, league or tournament).  Typically many schools will play one scrimmage during Thanksgiving week.  Then a club player can participate in the scrimmage with his/her HS team and play in November Nights, Surf or Silver Lakes showcases with their club team and not incur an eligibility penalty.


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## twoclubpapa (Nov 2, 2016)

espola said:


> Correction - from CIF SDS soccer preseason memo sent to all coaches and published on line at http://www.cifsds.org/uploads/2/3/3/6/23368454/2016_pre-season_soccer.pdf
> 
> 9. COMPETITION DATES
> November 23, 2016 - First possible interscholastic scrimmage.
> ...


In the Southern Section the corresponding dates are:
November 21, 2016:  Date of First Contest.  In the past the Thanksgiving Monday has been permitted for scrimmages with date of first contest being Tuesday so this is a slight change.
February 9, 2016:  Date of last league contest
March 11, 2017:  Date of last possible CIF SoCal Regional competition

I have a HS varsity boys vs Alumni match assignment for Black Friday afternoon.  Haven't heard of anything scheduled for Saturday.


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## Kicknit22 (Nov 2, 2016)

Friesland said:


> Exactly. It has cut both ways as well. I've known of a few Juniors who felt they needed one last good look leave a play-off HS team to do Vegas or other "showcase" tournies.
> 
> It used to be (and I would guess still is) that you become ineligible for further HS play "that season" once you return to an official club competition. If your coach doesn't care, you can always play again as a senior, after you are "in" a college and club is irrelevant. I know on the boys side some boys clubs (DA?) have more restrictions about HS play, but on the girls side most clubs don't (didn't anyway) restrict HS play too much.


What do you mean? Girls DA is new isn't it?  What was to restrict before?


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## Buckyballer (Nov 2, 2016)

twoclubpapa said:


> In the Southern Section the corresponding dates are:
> November 21, 2016:  Date of First Contest.  In the past the Thanksgiving Monday has been permitted for scrimmages with date of first contest being Tuesday so this is a slight change.
> February 9, 2016:  Date of last league contest
> March 11, 2017:  Date of last possible CIF SoCal Regional competition
> ...


 I found that too - one more question - do you have to 'get released' from the Online Registration System prior to playing in your first high school game?


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## espola (Nov 2, 2016)

Buckyballer said:


> I found that too - one more question - do you have to 'get released' from the Online Registration System prior to playing in your first high school game?


No.


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## soccermama213 (Nov 3, 2016)

My dd is frustrated that CRL games are scheduled up through mid December and she has to sit out of HS longer


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## espola (Nov 3, 2016)

soccermama213 said:


> My dd is frustrated that CRL games are scheduled up through mid December and she has to sit out of HS longer


She could always sit out the CRL games.


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## soccermama213 (Nov 3, 2016)

espola said:


> She could always sit out the CRL games.


 very true... although I don't think her coach or team would be happy with that - plus they are in the running to win CRL... so that's life. Club trumps HS....


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## Eagle33 (Nov 4, 2016)

It's great to have a choice. Some chose HS over club or DA and some chose other way. I think it should be just that - a choice but without all the restrictions CIF have in place. You want to play one or the other - fine. You want to do both - that's great also. Whats wrong with that?


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## espola (Nov 4, 2016)

Eagle33 said:


> It's great to have a choice. Some chose HS over club or DA and some chose other way. I think it should be just that - a choice but without all the restrictions CIF have in place. You want to play one or the other - fine. You want to do both - that's great also. Whats wrong with that?


Time.


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## Kicknit22 (Nov 6, 2016)

Eagle33 said:


> It's great to have a choice. Some chose HS over club or DA and some chose other way. I think it should be just that - a choice but without all the restrictions CIF have in place. You want to play one or the other - fine. You want to do both - that's great also. Whats wrong with that?


I completely agree Eagle.  Why the restrictions? If the individuals schedules work, then it should be the individuals prerogative. IMO


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## SCS Fan (Nov 15, 2016)

When does your HS practices begin?


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## twoclubpapa (Nov 15, 2016)

SCS Fan said:


> When does your HS practices begin?


I imagine that all high schools have already started practices.  Games can begin as early as next Monday (11/21) in the Southern Section and Wednesday (11/23) in the San Diego Section.


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## SCS Fan (Nov 15, 2016)

We have tryouts this week.  My DD is going to ask today what the practice schedule is the week of Thanksgiving when the kids are out of school


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## pulguita (Nov 15, 2016)

SCS Fan said:


> We have tryouts this week.  My DD is going to ask today what the practice schedule is the week of Thanksgiving when the kids are out of school


Why would a HS coach schedule training over Thanksgiving?  The players have been playing club and training for the last 8 months.  Starting on Monday after Thanksgiving will still leave plenty of time for league in January which is all that really matters and getting to CIF and give them a much needed break.  And if your kid has been training HS five days a week like I hear of some while playing club I truly feel sorry for you.  The coach is an idiot.


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## SCS Fan (Nov 15, 2016)

I'm not sure if we have practice or not the week of Thanksgiving.  I heard from a parent that in the past they had 2 optional practices that week.  I was just curios about what others might be doing.   My DD would love to play soccer everyday until the end of time.


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## apmullaly (Nov 15, 2016)

At some of the bigger schools tryouts can run into Thanksgiving week, let alone practices.


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## mirage (Nov 15, 2016)

pulguita said:


> Why would a HS coach schedule training over Thanksgiving?  The players have been playing club and training for the last 8 months....And if your kid has been training HS five days a week like I hear of some while playing club I truly feel sorry for you.  The coach is an idiot.


Because most coaches know that they cannot teach or develop anyone in such a short time, and all they want is to build some chemistry for the teams.  Many have HS tournament games the very next week.  These HS training sessions are light duty, low quality training anyway so all the players know going in.

As for training in club, don't you mean for the past 10 months?  You guys actually take 2 months off???

Last, many schools have been training since Sept as soccer is a PE class.  It would simply be a continuation of that.  My kids HS just finished tryouts last Thurs and practice starts today.  Unfortunately, between the league playoffs, TG tournament and CRL games, they will do both club and HS training for the next couple of weeks still...  Oh yeah, school work is in there somewhere too!


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## pulguita (Nov 15, 2016)

mirage said:


> Because most coaches know that they cannot teach or develop anyone in such a short time, and all they want is to build some chemistry for the teams.  Many have HS tournament games the very next week.  These HS training sessions are light duty, low quality training anyway so all the players know going in.
> 
> As for training in club, don't you mean for the past 10 months?  You guys actually take 2 months off???
> 
> Last, many schools have been training since Sept as soccer is a PE class.  It would simply be a continuation of that.  My kids HS just finished tryouts last Thurs and practice starts today.  Unfortunately, between the league playoffs, TG tournament and CRL games, they will do both club and HS training for the next couple of weeks still...  Oh yeah, school work is in there somewhere too!


So you are implying that practicing over Thanksgiving break is necessary to build team chemistry because it can't be done in the following 4 of 5 weeks before league starts?  And when they do start why do you assume they are low quality?  If they are such low quality get a new coach.

My kid hasn't had 2 months off since she was 11.  She has had situations where she was playing on 4 teams at the same time.  She might get lucky and get to take 6 weeks off when college is done.  What is your point?  Yeah kids actually do need a break.  A week off at Thanksgiving would be far more productive in the long run than training.

Good luck with starting practice today.  My son has been training twice a week for PE and that's about it cause the HS coach is an outstanding club coach and realizes that too much is too much.


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 15, 2016)

pulguita said:


> Why would a HS coach schedule training over Thanksgiving?  The players have been playing club and training for the last 8 months.  Starting on Monday after Thanksgiving will still leave plenty of time for league in January which is all that really matters and getting to CIF and give them a much needed break.  And if your kid has been training HS five days a week like I hear of some while playing club I truly feel sorry for you.  The coach is an idiot.


I agree with you on this.  They don't even train 5 days a week in college.


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## Frank (Nov 15, 2016)

My son 5 days a week for high school except when specifically not allowed to and then club 3-4 days a week. 16 year olds aren't allowed to be tired. ;-)


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## mirage (Nov 15, 2016)

pulguita said:


> So you are implying that practicing over Thanksgiving break is necessary to build team chemistry because it can't be done in the following 4 of 5 weeks before league starts?  And when they do start why do you assume they are low quality?  If they are such low quality get a new coach.
> 
> My kid hasn't had 2 months off since she was 11.  She has had situations where she was playing on 4 teams at the same time.  She might get lucky and get to take 6 weeks off when college is done.  What is your point?  Yeah kids actually do need a break.  A week off at Thanksgiving would be far more productive in the long run than training.
> 
> Good luck with starting practice today.  My son has been training twice a week for PE and that's about it cause the HS coach is an outstanding club coach and realizes that too much is too much.


Not implying anything.  Just disagreeing with your view as a generalized statement.  Your view has a point. There are other views just as valid and perhaps more fitting and appropriate - no more, no less.  This is the point.

Clearly you can do the math where I got the two months off from.  We're in November and training for 8 months, as you've stated, leaves 3 months but I'd discounted this half of the month.


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 15, 2016)

Frank said:


> My son 5 days a week for high school except when specifically not allowed to and then club 3-4 days a week. 16 year olds aren't allowed to be tired. ;-)


I have found that it is their body that gets tired even if their mind and spirit is willing or able.  Sort of the reason why the quality of play on the 2nd and 3rd day of a showcase are significantly lower than the first day.  I would bet if anybody did a study they would see a higher occurrence of injury on the later days of a showcase too.  Fatigue is not ideal for peak performance.


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 15, 2016)

mirage said:


> Not implying anything.  Just disagreeing with your view as a generalized statement.  Your view has a point. There are other views just as valid and perhaps more fitting and appropriate - no more, no less.  This is the point.
> 
> Clearly you can do the math where I got the two months off from.  We're in November and training for 8 months, as you've stated, leaves 3 months but I'd discounted this half of the month.



I think that top players benefit from rest.  My player never played in high school preseason camp and only did the summer thing before her senior year because she was a captain and still ended up a high school all american and all of the other associated accolades.  This year she wants to make the college cup but is just as excited about going on vacation and getting rest before national team camps and 2nd term begins.  For top players this is a marathon not a sprint.  No need to burn them out leading into high school.


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## Dos Equis (Nov 15, 2016)

Imagine a world where, instead of criticizing and abandoning HS soccer, US Soccer actually works with and influences it, implementing changes and establishing guidelines so it does not result in overtraining, more injuries, too many games, and conflicts with DA.  In that same world, US Soccer would spend more resources on educating coaches at the youngest ages and improving development there, instead of spending all their time trying to identify the top 0.1% of players at age 12-13, and working with a pool that is neither as talented on average, nor as large, as it should be.


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## mirage (Nov 15, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> I think that top players benefit from rest.  My player never played in high school preseason camp and only did the summer thing before her senior year because she was a captain and still ended up a high school all american and all of the other associated accolades.  This year she wants to make the college cup but is just as excited about going on vacation and getting rest before national team camps and 2nd term begins.  For top players this is a marathon not a sprint.  No need to burn them out leading into high school.


No one is arguing that rest is not needed. Clearly certain amount of down time is good for the body and mind. 

The comment was why would HS practice during TG week. One reason not to is for rest. Another view is why some coaches would want to.  Just an explanation.


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 16, 2016)

I used to hate high school soccer and still kinda do.  However, I have to say that the social aspect of fitting into a team with girls of different ages helped my player adjust to college soccer almost as much as the soccer skills learned through years of club.


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## Simisoccerfan (Nov 16, 2016)

Our HS (both girls and boys) had tryouts in the summer.  Boys actually have their first scrimmage this week and a game next week.  Girls play their first game after the week after Thanksgiving.  Teams have been practicing during PE since late August.


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## soccermama213 (Nov 17, 2016)

My daughters HS team started practice last week - every weekday, and still has club practices. they have their first scrimmage today against another school. My dd is tired and I think its a lot but that's the way all the schools around here are. She does have to miss several preseason games since CRL games go into Dec 11th and therefore she cant play any HS games after Thanksgiving until then.


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