# Blues COVID email



## Lulu22 (Sep 8, 2020)

I’m just saying WOW someone else post it I’m new and don’t know how to do it. WOW


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## outside! (Sep 8, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> I’m just saying WOW someone else post it I’m new and don’t know how to do it. WOW


Open the email.
Select everything.
Right click and select copy.
Paste contents into a post on the forum.


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## Lulu22 (Sep 8, 2020)

Let me ask for it, can I be sued for that? I mean I’m unemployed don’t got shit, but just asking


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## Jose has returned (Sep 8, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Let me ask for it, can I be sued for that? I mean I’m unemployed don’t got shit, but just asking


yes


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## paytoplay (Sep 8, 2020)




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## Glitterhater (Sep 8, 2020)

How can you get sued for an email they sent to the public? Is that what you're asking?


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## timbuck (Sep 8, 2020)

Did someone at practice have Covid?
Did someone get Covid at the ballers only camp?
Did someone with Covid travel to Utah this weekend?


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## Lulu22 (Sep 8, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> How can you get sued for an email they sent to the public? Is that what you're asking?


Yes I was asking that


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## dad4 (Sep 8, 2020)

It would be nice to know what the risk was.  A lot if us are doing practice/scrimmage/futsal/???   If one of those caused a problem,  blues should spread the news so people can avoid that activity.


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## lafalafa (Sep 8, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Yes I was asking that


Put it in your own words or summarize and your fine.  Just don't copy & paste


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 8, 2020)

I got Covid emails from the Cactus Cup and my dd club?  My dd has friends who got the corona and my best pal got it.  Everyone will most likely get this flu bug.  Should we not play the Blues now or should I tell my neighbor something that is going on?  Lulu, do you have Blues Envy?  Jealously got your tongue?  Are you a coach trying to hurt a brand and want to know if that is slander?  I have Lin Woods # if you want it lulu.  If your a parent who cares and have important infornations, please share.  Be careful though, just saying.  #1 brand in da country.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 8, 2020)

dad4 said:


> It would be nice to know what the risk was.  A lot if us are doing practice/scrimmage/futsal/???   If one of those caused a problem,  blues should spread the news so people can avoid that activity.


 So I am assuming that they sent an email saying that one of their players got covid?  Is that true?


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 8, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> So I am assuming that they sent an email saying that one of their players got covid?  Is that true?


Lulu got it started, she or he needs to finish the gossip dump.  Give it up Lulu, were all waiting now.  TY


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 8, 2020)

Here's my two cents on the rumor email now that Lulu shared.  A ___________________got it and__________________.  Now the __________________________and ___________South with say that no one can cross______________________________and no soccer!!!!


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## SoccerFan6 (Sep 8, 2020)

One thing I can pretty much guarantee is that players have it at every club and are practicing. With the large percentage of asymptomatic cases amongst kids it is out there on the soccer fields.


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## Jose has returned (Sep 8, 2020)

CDC says first responders/ medical workers can return to work 10 days after onset of symptoms. If its good enough for them then it is for the rest of us so looks like two weeks off and get back after it. No big deal


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## Soccer43 (Sep 8, 2020)

If you are not going to say what is going on then don’t even start the thread - have a pair of balls,


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## Jose has returned (Sep 8, 2020)

SoccerFan6 said:


> One thing I can pretty much guarantee is that players have it at every club and are practicing. With the large percentage of asymptomatic cases amongst kids it is out there on the soccer fields.


hopefully it will run its course without a lot of damage


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## Lulu22 (Sep 8, 2020)

Ok so nothing against the Blues, it was my privilege to play against the Blue Jays back in the day. My friend ask my advice since I did some contact tracing  with Covid. The Blues as organization NEVER did anything wrong, they have been impecable, never practiced out of the county. They’ve been nothing but perfect. They’ve always said if you scrimmage, or go out of state then It is your OWN responsibility. As a contact tracer youth sports out of state or practicing around so many people would be crazy. I can’t post it bc it has names.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 8, 2020)

You cannot start a rumor like this.  It’s not the right thing to do now that we all want our kids to practice and play.   Let’s have the moral etiquette to not spread these rumors.  I am not associated with the Blues organization but I can see how bad this could look if it’s incorrect news.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 8, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Ok so nothing against the Blues, it was my privilege to play against the Blue Jays back in the day. *My friend ask my advice since I did some contact tracing  with Covid*. The Blues as organization NEVER did anything wrong, they have been impecable, never practiced out of the county. They’ve been nothing but perfect. They’ve always said if you scrimmage, or go out of state then It is your OWN responsibility. *As a contact tracer youth sports out of state or practicing around so many people would be crazy. I can’t post it bc it has names.*


Is this what they teach you at Contact Tracer Training School?  To start a thread to damage one of Socals #1 Brand in Socal?  Are you for real?  Are you saying we can;t leave the state Mr or Mrs Contract Tracer?  I can;t imagine this is what they want you to do on a message board lulu.  Someone else from the Contact Tracer team on here?


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 8, 2020)

I did here that the State hired thousands,  So maybe this CT is giving us all a heads up.  Is that true Lulu?  If you work for Cal South and or the State, we need to have a chat off record.


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## Messi>CR7 (Sep 8, 2020)

SoccerFan6 said:


> One thing I can pretty much guarantee is that players have it at every club and are practicing. With the large percentage of asymptomatic cases amongst kids it is out there on the soccer fields.


Very true.  1 in 64 people in OC has it, and that does not even include asymptomatic people who did not get tested.  If a club is open and honest about it, good for them.


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## Glitterhater (Sep 8, 2020)

IF a Blues player has it, would we really be surprised? I for one expect it to crop up at every club at some point. 
BTW, this is not to say I agree with the vague nature of this post.


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## Lulu22 (Sep 8, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> I did here that the State hired thousands,  So maybe this CT is giving us all a heads up.  Is that true Lulu?  If you work for Cal South and or the State, we need to have a chat off record.


I don’t work as contact tracer, we did have to do a very long training to get a contract with the state delivering meals to infected people. Contact tracers are practically epidemiologist. I’m not that fancy.


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## Messi>CR7 (Sep 8, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Ok so nothing against the Blues, it was my privilege to play against the Blue Jays back in the day. My friend ask my advice since I did some contact tracing  with Covid. The Blues as organization NEVER did anything wrong, they have been impecable, never practiced out of the county. They’ve been nothing but perfect. They’ve always said if you scrimmage, or go out of state then It is your OWN responsibility. As a contact tracer youth sports out of state or practicing around so many people would be crazy. I can’t post it bc it has names.


Your friend asked you for advise, and the first you did was to come on this forum and disclose that information?  SMH.


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## galaxydad (Sep 8, 2020)

Caution- athletes (people) not showing any symptoms but have COVID are experiencing inflammation of the heart 35 percent of the time. That’s dangerous combined with strenuous exercise. Look at the evidence the pac 12 and big 10 doctors Used to decide to postpone the season


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## Soccer43 (Sep 8, 2020)

First of all everyone needs to stop spreading rumors and inaccurate information.  Lulu - go away and stop posting , I don’t even understand why you even started something which is really nothing but odd innuendos and not even rumors so go away - you don’t have anything to say, you don’t have any real information to share

second of all that 35 % number is inaccurate and they corrected themselves on this reporting of research - don’t post inaccurate stories of scientific research results


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## Grace T. (Sep 8, 2020)

galaxydad said:


> Caution- athletes (people) not showing any symptoms but have COVID are experiencing inflammation of the heart 35 percent of the time. That’s dangerous combined with strenuous exercise. Look at the evidence the pac 12 and big 10 doctors Used to decide to postpone the season


The big 10 studies have had holes put in them including penn having to issue a clarification. New numbers being thrown about say 10-15%. FYI the same thing happens with flu (have seen numbers ranging from 1-10%)...lower than Covid numbers but if covid gives you pause so should flu


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## Sheriff Joe (Sep 8, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Very true.  1 in 64 people in OC has it, and that does not even include asymptomatic people who did not get tested.  If a club is open and honest about it, good for them.


Where did you get that number?


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 8, 2020)

galaxydad said:


> Caution- athletes (people) not showing any symptoms but have COVID are experiencing inflammation of the heart 35 percent of the time. That’s dangerous combined with strenuous exercise. Look at the evidence the pac 12 and big 10 doctors Used to decide to postpone the season


PS - so does Hepatitis, Influenza A and B amongst many other common viruses.
I believe you mean well in sharing, but the realities are not as scary when you look at the bigger picture (or the fact that we all walk around with many of these so Siri is and don’t even know it is more scary).


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## Emma (Sep 8, 2020)

@Lulu22 : I don't promote gossip but a real email from a club is not gossip.  I would like to be informed of real information.  Black out names and any identifiable information regarding individuals, especially minors.  Thanks for sharing.  This type of information is the primary purpose of this forum.  Our millions of opinions is the second purpose.


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## Willie (Sep 8, 2020)

Emma said:


> @Lulu22 : I don't promote gossip but a real email from a club is not gossip.  I would like to be informed of real information.  Black out names and any identifiable information regarding individuals, especially minors.  Thanks for sharing.  This type of information is the primary purpose of this forum.  Our millions of opinions is the second purpose.


Lulu,
Please share the E-mail contents with the community as Emma described above. Do not let the Blues posters on this thread scare you out of sharing critical information.


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## Jose has returned (Sep 8, 2020)

Please share the E-mail contents with the community as Emma described above. Do not let the Blues posters on this thread scare you out of sharing critical information.
[/QUOTE]
What would be critical? stop trying to bully your way to getting that person to post. Its the same as every other story that is on the news.  One person got it and gave it to the next.  It doesn't really matter the important part is to protect yourself at all times. period.  we have all been warned and given the knowledge to prevent spreading it to others.  If you let your guard down there is nobody to blame except the individual.


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## dad4 (Sep 8, 2020)

Jose has returned said:


> Please share the E-mail contents with the community as Emma described above. Do not let the Blues posters on this thread scare you out of sharing critical information.


What would be critical? stop trying to bully your way to getting that person to post. Its the same as every other story that is on the news.  One person got it and gave it to the next.  It doesn't really matter the important part is to protect yourself at all times. period.  we have all been warned and given the knowledge to prevent spreading it to others.  If you let your guard down there is nobody to blame except the individual.
[/QUOTE]
We are in the middle of an epidemic that has killed close to a million people worldwide, and you are worried about helping Blues cover their ass?

 The rest of the soccer community kind of needs to know if Blues is having a soccer related outbreak.  Otherwise, other people will do what Blues did and make their own outbreaks.


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## Glitterhater (Sep 8, 2020)

I feel like the veiled email could actually do more harm to the Blues than just giving accurate info!


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 8, 2020)

dad4 said:


> What would be critical? stop trying to bully your way to getting that person to post. Its the same as every other story that is on the news.  One person got it and gave it to the next.  It doesn't really matter the important part is to protect yourself at all times. period.  we have all been warned and given the knowledge to prevent spreading it to others.  If you let your guard down there is nobody to blame except the individual.


We are in the middle of an epidemic that has killed close to a million people worldwide, and you are worried about helping Blues cover their ass?

The rest of the soccer community kind of needs to know if Blues is having a soccer related outbreak.  Otherwise, other people will do what Blues did and make their own outbreaks.
[/QUOTE]
Are you really from Nocal?  You seem to care a lot about the Blues.  You live in Nocal or Socal?  Interesting that you care so much about all the their injuries and all their recruiting.  So much jealousy on here.


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## Speed (Sep 8, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Ok so nothing against the Blues, it was my privilege to play against the Blue Jays back in the day. My friend ask my advice since I did some contact tracing  with Covid. The Blues as organization NEVER did anything wrong, they have been impecable, never practiced out of the county. They’ve been nothing but perfect. They’ve always said if you scrimmage, or go out of state then It is your OWN responsibility. As a contact tracer youth sports out of state or practicing around so many people would be crazy. I can’t post it bc it has names.





Emma said:


> @Lulu22 : I don't promote gossip but a real email from a club is not gossip.  I would like to be informed of real information.  Black out names and any identifiable information regarding individuals, especially minors.  Thanks for sharing.  This type of information is the primary purpose of this forum.  Our millions of opinions is the second purpose.


@Lulu


Lulu22 said:


> Ok so nothing against the Blues, it was my privilege to play against the Blue Jays back in the day. My friend ask my advice since I did some contact tracing  with Covid. The Blues as organization NEVER did anything wrong, they have been impecable, never practiced out of the county. They’ve been nothing but perfect. They’ve always said if you scrimmage, or go out of state then It is your OWN responsibility. As a contact tracer youth sports out of state or practicing around so many people would be crazy. I can’t post it bc it has names.


If you had no intention of sharing the email there was no reason to post this onto the forum. You are trying to put pressure on others to share and you are just stirring the pot. You may have real information but unless you are willing to share it is useless. And I am not a blues fan, nor have we ever played for the club. You are tarnishing their name by not fully putting the whole story out and sharing pure speculation.


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## Speed (Sep 8, 2020)

agree


Glitterhater said:


> I feel like the veiled email could actually do more harm to the Blues than just giving accurate info!


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## lafalafa (Sep 8, 2020)

Lulu22 said:


> Ok so nothing against the Blues, it was my privilege to play against the Blue Jays back in the day. My friend ask my advice since I did some contact tracing  with Covid. The Blues as organization NEVER did anything wrong, they have been impecable, never practiced out of the county. They’ve been nothing but perfect. They’ve always said if you scrimmage, or go out of state then It is your OWN responsibility. As a contact tracer youth sports out of state or practicing around so many people would be crazy. I can’t post it bc it has names.





timbuck said:


> Did someone at practice have Covid?
> Did someone get Covid at the ballers only camp?
> Did someone with Covid travel to Utah this weekend?


Coach('s)?

Parent(s) who traveled with?

Players will know with above info


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## dad4 (Sep 8, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> We are in the middle of an epidemic that has killed close to a million people worldwide, and you are worried about helping Blues cover their ass?
> 
> The rest of the soccer community kind of needs to know if Blues is having a soccer related outbreak.  Otherwise, other people will do what Blues did and make their own outbreaks.


Are you really from Nocal?  You seem to care a lot about the Blues.  You live in Nocal or Socal?  Interesting that you care so much about all the their injuries and all their recruiting.  So much jealousy on here.
[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t matter which club it was.  

It does matter whether it was an out of state trip, independent scrimmages, the swap meet clinics, a coach planning meeting, or a team bonding sleepover.

And it only matters because, whatever it was, the rest of us should avoid that kind of activity.


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## watfly (Sep 8, 2020)

Whatever email the Blues may have sent to their families is none of our f'ing business.  What's wrong with people?  Has the fear of Covid completely distorted your sense of what's right and wrong?


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## paytoplay (Sep 8, 2020)

People tell me it’s actually Slammers that’s spreading the Covid-19. Not Blues.


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## Woobie06 (Sep 8, 2020)

@Lulu22 Great job today!  You earned the “Troll of the Day” Badge...you got a lot of people really fired up on Taco Tuesday no less.  Can’t copy and paste, but can work a smart phone...got it 

I always wonder what would posses somebody to share a club email, internal policy, or club business that was meant solely for members of the club.  Seems kind of shitty to me.  Clubs make mistakes, but they also do a lot of things right, some wrong, some good, and some bad...just like all of us.  I don’t think any of us would like our professional communications or mistakes posted and picked at on a message board to get flamed.  No affiliation to Blues, regardless I do know I would not be posting my DD’s club’s internal communications, etc. even if I had an axe to grind.  Just does not seem like the right thing to do for me.  My vote is don’t post it.

Anyway...let’s get back to bullying @Lulu22 to paste the email before he/she changes their handle and we don’t know who they are anymore.


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## outside! (Sep 9, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> @Lulu22 Great job today!  You earned the “Troll of the Day” Badge...you got a lot of people really fired up on Taco Tuesday no less.  Can’t copy and paste, but can work a smart phone...got it
> 
> I always wonder what would posses somebody to share a club email, internal policy, or club business that was meant solely for members of the club.  Seems kind of shitty to me.  Clubs make mistakes, but they also do a lot of things right, some wrong, some good, and some bad...just like all of us.  I don’t think any of us would like our professional communications or mistakes posted and picked at on a message board to get flamed.  No affiliation to Blues, regardless I do know I would not be posting my DD’s club’s internal communications, etc. even if I had an axe to grind.  Just does not seem like the right thing to do for me.  My vote is don’t post it.
> 
> Anyway...let’s get back to bullying @Lulu22 to paste the email before he/she changes their handle and we don’t know who they are anymore.


I disagree. Clubs act like a monopoly. They do not own the players or families. If there is relevant information that could help others, share if, if not, don't start a rumor thread.


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## EOTL (Sep 9, 2020)

outside! said:


> I disagree. Clubs act like a monopoly. They do not own the players or families. If there is relevant information that could help others, share if, if not, don't start a rumor thread.


There must be 500 youth soccer “monopolies” in SoCal. That’s a lot of monopolies. I’ve never seen so many monopolies competing against each other. It’s almost like the exact opposite of monopolies.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 9, 2020)

outside! said:


> I disagree. Clubs act like a monopoly. They do not own the players or families. If there is relevant information that could help others, share if, if not, don't start a rumor thread.





EOTL said:


> There must be 500 youth soccer “monopolies” in SoCal. That’s a lot of monopolies. I’ve never seen so many monopolies competing against each other. It’s almost like the exact opposite of monopolies.


I think what Outside is saying is that each player should be rented and free to rome wherever they want to after or even during the season,  Players are rented for one year.  In Monopoly, you "buy" the player and then try and make money off their likeness and accomplishments.  I could be wrong.


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## dad4 (Sep 9, 2020)

EOTL said:


> There must be 500 youth soccer “monopolies” in SoCal. That’s a lot of monopolies. I’ve never seen so many monopolies competing against each other. It’s almost like the exact opposite of monopolies.


ACLU, you’re with Blues.  And you care about stopping covid.

What did you guys do wrong that the rest of us should avoid?

No names, please.


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## outside! (Sep 9, 2020)

EOTL said:


> There must be 500 youth soccer “monopolies” in SoCal. That’s a lot of monopolies. I’ve never seen so many monopolies competing against each other. It’s almost like the exact opposite of monopolies.


So I picked the wrong word, I should have picked fiefdom. Clubs try to act like they own information and players. They only share negative information when forced to.

The most important part of my post was the second part. The best use of this forum is for parents to share information. If the OP has information that can help others make informed decisions, they should share it without compromising player privacy. If there is on relevant information, do not start rumor threads.


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## SoccerFan6 (Sep 9, 2020)

OK, I contacted some Blues people I know.  Here's what the email said.  2 coaches and 1 player tested positive.  Based on their lack of exposure to each other and the timeframes of positive tests, they did not contract it from each other.  The teams those people are associated with are on a 2 week break.

That's it.  Unfortunately for all the Blues haters there is no outbreak within the club, just 3 isolated incidents.  Hopefully now that the contents of the email are out there the rumor mill can stop.


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## dad4 (Sep 9, 2020)

SoccerFan6 said:


> OK, I contacted some Blues people I know.  Here's what the email said.  2 coaches and 1 player tested positive.  Based on their lack of exposure to each other and the timeframes of positive tests, they did not contract it from each other.  The teams those people are associated with are on a 2 week break.
> 
> That's it.  Unfortunately for all the Blues haters there is no outbreak within the club, just 3 isolated incidents.  Hopefully now that the contents of the email are out there the rumor mill can stop.


3 disconnected cases in a large organization is a non story.  Slammers and everyone else probably have that many.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 9, 2020)

Yet another overreaction related to Covid.  Knowing the age of some of the Blues Coaches, I hope those who did get it recover soon.


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## Woobie06 (Sep 9, 2020)

outside! said:


> I disagree. Clubs act like a monopoly. They do not own the players or families. If there is relevant information that could help others, share if, if not, don't start a rumor thread.


Nobody is talking about owning players or anything like that...I’m just speaking about sharing member-only communications on a public forum.  If was intended to be there, it would have been posted there to begin with.  There is a difference between sharing what you “know” and posting club communications/emails.  I get it people like to have the “scoop”.   Whatever, to each their own.


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## Soccerhelper (Sep 9, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Yet another overreaction related to Covid.  Knowing the age of some of the Blues Coaches, I hope those who did get it recover soon.


Essential workers get the virus.  Coaches are exposed and so were the thousands at the beach this last weekend.  How many times you think the virus walked into Trader Joes yesterday?  Stater Bros?  Guess what, you either got it now, had it or will get it.  That I can assure you all.  Eat healthy and stay in shape.  Meditate if you can.  My gosh, after 53 years, I learned how to sit still for 30 minutes and close my eye.  My wife goes away for 90 minutes and I can;t wait to reach that kind of peace.  My peace time is early in da morning Kicker.  I'm going so deep, it's incredible.  I learning some really neat and insightful stuff.  If you want the scoop, let me know.


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## Grace T. (Sep 9, 2020)

All the incentives being created right now are for sick people not to get tested (unless they are so sick they are required to for entry into the hospitals).  If you get tested, your team might get shut down.  If you get tested, you might get stories about "outbreaks" at your club.  If you get tested, you might add to the positivity county in your county prolonging school and business shutdowns.  If you get tested, you'll get 14 day quarantined and have to deal with the contact tracers. If you get tested, you might wind up a false positive.  And with schools and most offices shut, the pressure points for the govt to find the cases are also narrow.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 9, 2020)

watfly said:


> Whatever email the Blues may have sent to their families is none of our f'ing business.  What's wrong with people?  Has the fear of Covid completely distorted your sense of what's right and wrong?


So let me ask you this. Let’s just say these players attended a tournament and are also practicing in a private field where other teams are practicing.

Wouldn’t the right thing to do is notify others that could have been impacted.   

My dd practiced with several Blues and Slammers players  a few months ago at a private field in the OC.  If someone from the blues team (Or any other team) would have contacted the virus, it would be great to know to test my daughter.  This would be the same for any other club.  

Let’s also keep in mind that several players also did that indoor soccer camp in Anaheim.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 9, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> So let me ask you this. Let’s just say these players attended a tournament and are also practicing in a private field where other teams are practicing.
> 
> Wouldn’t the right thing to do is notify others that could have been impacted.
> 
> ...


Would that be nice to know, wouldn't it? Our system works ass backwards and all this information kept secret.


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## Cruzer (Sep 9, 2020)

Well, this thread got out of control, real quick-like. Back to my day job...


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## EOTL (Sep 9, 2020)

dad4 said:


> ACLU, you’re with Blues.  And you care about stopping covid.
> 
> What did you guys do wrong that the rest of us should avoid?
> 
> No names, please.


I’m with Blues?


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## timbuck (Sep 9, 2020)

Did the email come out before or after the long weekend?


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## Keepermom2 (Sep 9, 2020)

SoccerFan6 said:


> OK, I contacted some Blues people I know.  Here's what the email said.  2 coaches and 1 player tested positive.  Based on their lack of exposure to each other and the timeframes of positive tests, they did not contract it from each other.  The teams those people are associated with are on a 2 week break.
> 
> That's it.  Unfortunately for all the Blues haters there is no outbreak within the club, just 3 isolated incidents.  Hopefully now that the contents of the email are out there the rumor mill can stop.


There are many organizations that aren't sharing that information so good for the Blues being forthright with the information.


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## Emma (Sep 9, 2020)

Well done of the Blues.  Good email and good handling of the situation.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 9, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> There are many organizations that aren't sharing that information so good for the Blues being forthright with the information.


This a million times..... honesty is a good thing so Blues did this right imho........


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## Jose has returned (Sep 9, 2020)

dad4 said:


> What would be critical? stop trying to bully your way to getting that person to post. Its the same as every other story that is on the news.  One person got it and gave it to the next.  It doesn't really matter the important part is to protect yourself at all times. period.  we have all been warned and given the knowledge to prevent spreading it to others.  If you let your guard down there is nobody to blame except the individual.


We are in the middle of an epidemic that has killed close to a million people worldwide, and you are worried about helping Blues cover their ass?

The rest of the soccer community kind of needs to know if Blues is having a soccer related outbreak.  Otherwise, other people will do what Blues did and make their own outbreaks.
[/QUOTE]
it doesn't matter.  PROTECT YOURSELF AT ALL TIMES!  assume everyone has it. It's call universal precaution.You won't get it if you distance ,wear a mask and most importantly wash your hands.   Back when the aids virus hit we were told this.  Unless you know everything about your partner's past you are taking a chance if you did not protect yourself.  And don't give me the grandparents blah blah blah.  protect them too. if you are worried stay home just like  with the aids virus if you are worried then be celibate and even with that you could get it with a blood transfusion.


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## Jose has returned (Sep 9, 2020)

watfly said:


> Whatever email the Blues may have sent to their families is none of our f'ing business.  What's wrong with people?  Has the fear of Covid completely distorted your sense of what's right and wrong?


yes it has


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 9, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> I never received any email and this is the first time
> I’m hearing about this. Lovely how people love to spread rumors. I’ll check my junk mail inbox just Incase.


Better check in on your Coach!


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## pewpew (Sep 10, 2020)

I find it kinda funny that many many people were thumping their chests about how they won't be told when/where they can play. That they're all pumped up to drive 5+hrs out of state to scrimmage a team they are normally a 30-40min drive from. That Covid-be damned and that "their goats need to play da game" and so on and so on. Then someone comes along mentioning a possibility of exposure somewhere and everyone screams "SHARK" and runs out of the water all scared and demanding answers. You all sound surprised with this new revelation as if it wasn't going to happen.
If you decided it was that important to go play that tournament, or scrimmage, or whatever and wherever..then you should be responsible enough to
deal with the possible consequences.

I'm not saying we haven't hung out with family and kept proper social distancing and everyone wore a mask at all times. Far from it. We've tried doing our part. Same for me and my wife. Both essential workers. Even at both of our jobs it isn't ideal conditions and compliance is not 100%.
I think by now everyone on this board is pretty well-informed about all things Covid. It's up to us to filter thru it all and act accordingly and try to keep ourselves and loved ones as safe as possible. Eventually this will all pass and hopefully life will return to normal. Good luck and stay safe to all.

But don't come onto some soccer forum demanding answers when you knew the risks before you took them. You can't have it both ways.
My .02


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 10, 2020)

pewpew said:


> I find it kinda funny that many many people were thumping their chests about how they won't be told when/where they can play. That they're all pumped up to drive 5+hrs out of state to scrimmage a team they are normally a 30-40min drive from. That Covid-be damned and that "their goats need to play da game" and so on and so on. Then someone comes along mentioning a possibility of exposure somewhere and everyone screams "SHARK" and runs out of the water all scared and demanding answers. You all sound surprised with this new revelation as if it wasn't going to happen.
> If you decided it was that important to go play that tournament, or scrimmage, or whatever and wherever..then you should be responsible enough to
> deal with the possible consequences.
> 
> ...


To my knowledge those that were affected did not go to Utah.


----------



## pewpew (Sep 10, 2020)

I never mentioned any state in particular. People are driving EVERYWHERE for their sport, hobby, etc. My brother just came back from AZ for baseball for one of his kids. 
Point being..even if you are doing something here at home regardless of any guidelines or recommendations then you run the risk of exposing yourself
and your loved ones to possibly contracting the virus. 
All I'm saying is don't scream "SHARK" when you are also out there chumming the water.


----------



## gefelchnik (Sep 10, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Better check in on your Coach!


I have seen some really bottom feeder stuff on this forum.  But you making light of a situation with a Coach who may be ill...this is the worst thing I have read.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 10, 2020)

gefelchnik said:


> I have seen some really bottom feeder stuff on this forum.  But you making light of a situation with a Coach who may be ill...this is the worst thing I have read.


At no time did I make light of it.....


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 11, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> At no time did I make light of it.....


Blues envy have you Kicker?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 11, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> Blues envy have you Kicker?


What is there to envy?


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 11, 2020)




----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 11, 2020)

I want to confess before my brethren today.  I too at one time had Blues Envy.  Man, when my dd would play them in her early years and we would always lose, I dreamed one day of crushing them.  I never dreamed that the Wizard of the Blues and the Great Gaffer would come and watch over 10 games of my goat playing all over socal.  Emails, phone calls and long talks on da phone.  It was professional all the way and it cured me of my Blues Envy when dd signed for one year contracts two years in a row.  I then started to have Surf Envy.  The way they played and the way they teach possession soccer, I was full of envy and had to go get that too.  Anyway, I put all my envy to death last year and now I dont give a sh*t!!!!  I just want to help my dd play another soccer game against any team willing to play.  It dont matter.  ECNL, DPL, GA, SCDSL, High School or any team for that matter.  TGIF!!!


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Yet another overreaction related to Covid.  Knowing the age of some of the Blues Coaches, I hope those who did get it recover soon.


No one died, you or your loved ones didn't get it, so that's your idea of an over reaction? In other words, who cares about everyone else as long as I'm good? The long term affects of this virus are not fully known, but now everyone knows what it can do and there are countless stories of what it does to people. Clubs are going to keep putting out these emails so when someone sues them they can at least say they tried to warn others.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 11, 2020)

pewpew said:


> and everyone screams "SHARK" and runs out of the water all scared and demanding answers.


To be fair...it seems the only ones screaming SHARK are the ones who have been screaming shark now for some time.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> Blues envy have you Kicker?


The only envy a parent should have is not being able to afford to play for a club. There's a place for every kid if you have the $$$. It's a stupid thing to say.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> To be fair...it seems the only ones screaming SHARK are the ones who have been screaming shark now for some time.


The ones who are not screaming SHARK should be asking themselves why they are not worried and why they do not care if they get the virus or spread the virus, and are most likely acting on now old information that it is not dangerous and cannot hurt anyone.


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> The only envy a parent should have is not being able to afford to play for a club. There's a place for every kid if you have the $$$. It's a stupid thing to day.


I can;t disagree.  I've been there before too so I have felt that envy for sure.


----------



## Jose has returned (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> No one died, you or your loved ones didn't get it, so that's your idea of an over reaction? In other words, who cares about everyone else as long as I'm good? The long term affects of this virus are not fully known, but now everyone knows what it can do and there are countless stories of what it does to people. Clubs are going to keep putting out these emails so when someone sues them they can at least say they tried to warn others.


Everyone is responsible for their own actions.  With the exception of those that need caretakers.   We have enough info to know that if you WASH your hands, SOCIAL DISTANCE, WEAR A MASK the chances are down to nil.  Protect yourself at all times no matter what others do. Use universal precautions. If you send your  Kids go to school then treat them as infected, if the go play soccer treat them as infected  and do the big 3 actions.  If you are worried then stay home and isolate and there will not be an issue for you or your family.


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 11, 2020)




----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Jose has returned said:


> Everyone is responsible for their own actions.  With the exception of those that need caretakers.   We have enough info to know that if you WASH your hands, SOCIAL DISTANCE, WEAR A MASK the chances are down to nil.  Protect yourself at all times no matter what others do. Use universal precautions. If you send your  Kids go to school then treat them as infected, if the go play soccer treat them as infected  and do the big 3 actions.  If you are worried then stay home and isolate and there will not be an issue for you or your family.


Great, more live free or die BS. Again, works great until someone gets seriously ill or dies. Until then, everyone do what they want, get mad at government for trying protect us, get mad at the legal system we all have used and abused, blame someone else, but whatever you do, don't get in the middle of me and my kid going to play soccer whenever and where ever and with whoever we choose.


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Great, more live free or die BS. Again, works great until someone gets seriously ill or dies. Until then, everyone do what they want, get mad at government for trying protect us, get mad at the legal system we all have used and abused, blame someone else, but whatever you do, don't get in the middle of me and my kid going to play soccer whenever and where ever and with whoever we choose.


----------



## Emma (Sep 11, 2020)

Jose has returned said:


> Everyone is responsible for their own actions.  With the exception of those that need caretakers.   We have enough info to know that if you WASH your hands, SOCIAL DISTANCE, WEAR A MASK the chances are down to nil.  Protect yourself at all times no matter what others do. Use universal precautions. If you send your  Kids go to school then treat them as infected, if the go play soccer treat them as infected  and do the big 3 actions.  If you are worried then stay home and isolate and there will not be an issue for you or your family.


This is exactly what we need to do as a country to make things better.  Let's unite behind individual responsibility, logic and reason, and NOT exceptions or excuses.  

Wash your hands/sanitize, social distance, and wear a mask.  You can still do whatever you want to do but be respectful towards one another.  At this time in history, respecting each other means wash your hands/sanitize, social distance, and wear a mask. 

This is a team sport.


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## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> View attachment 9016


Truth hurts huh?


----------



## Willie (Sep 11, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> View attachment 9016


Have you figured out yet that “thelonggame” is another one of the Marxist EOTL and espola’s accounts?


----------



## Emma (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Great, more live free or die BS. Again, works great until someone gets seriously ill or dies. Until then, everyone do what they want, get mad at government for trying protect us, get mad at the legal system we all have used and abused, blame someone else, but whatever you do, don't get in the middle of me and my kid going to play soccer whenever and where ever and with whoever we choose.


This is about minimizing risks and protecting each other.  If we take individual responsibility and take care of each other, then we won't need government interference.  The problem right now is we don't have personal responsibility or the willingness to take care of each other.  We have a bunch of people who think reading internet websites makes them smarter than everyone and they'll do whatever the hell they want.  Wash your hands/sanitize, social distance, and wear a mask.  Stop fighting with each other and start protecting yourself and each other.  We're killing each other with our own infighting and unwillingness to be humble.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Emma said:


> This is exactly what we need to do as a country to make things better.  Let's unite behind individual responsibility, logic and reason, and NOT exceptions or excuses.
> 
> Wash your hands/sanitize, social distance, and wear a mask.  You can still do whatever you want to do but be respectful towards one another.  At this time in history, respecting each other means wash your hands/sanitize, social distance, and wear a mask.
> 
> This is a team sport.


It's great until the last sentence and becomes totally contradictory. Acting as a team does not mean you stay home and I go out and do what I want. Doesn't mean lockdown or leave the house in a bee keeper suit, it means everyone assume the same level of responsibility or at least take it seriously, which isn't happening.


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Truth hurts huh?


It was a joke.  99% of my post are sugared with comedy.  Man, anyone WHO knows me, no's i'm one big goof off, class clown, pest, smack talker, joker and just an all around fun guy. Life of the party.  Happy drunk kind of guy....lol.  I have zero idea what the truth is Long Game.  What age is your goat?  DS or DD or both or none at all?


----------



## watfly (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> The ones who are not screaming SHARK should be asking themselves why they are not worried and why they do not care if they get the virus or spread the virus, and are most likely acting on now old information that it is not dangerous and cannot hurt anyone.


No one says they don't care, they're just not blinded by Covid.   We can see the bigger picture and can see the other negative consequences of the lockdown that are much more serious and impact a much greater population than the risk of injury or death from Covid which is very, very low.  We can see past the emotion and look at the facts.  Screaming Shark can be very dangerous as we saw in NY and NJ when they thought the were going to run out hospital and made the deadly decision to force Covid positive patients into nursing homes.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Willie said:


> Have you figured out yet that “thelonggame” is another one of the Marxist EOTL and espola’s accounts?


Funny. You couldn't explain Marxism if you had to, you have no idea what it is, you're just cutting/pasting from the conspiracy theory websites you like to read to make you feel better because you can't deal with reality. Another phrase you have never heard and will not be able to understand, Potempkin Village, that's where you live. Weather is always nice, I hear.


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 11, 2020)

Let's play "Guess WHO?"


----------



## Willie (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Funny. You couldn't explain Marxism if you had to, you have no idea what it is, you're just cutting/pasting from the conspiracy theory websites you like to read to make you feel better because you can't deal with reality. Another phrase you have never heard and will not be able to understand, Potempkin Village, that's where you live. Weather is always nice, I hear.


Isn’t it time to accuse someone of racism, or homophobia?  Or is that angle just for EOTL account?


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

watfly said:


> No one says they don't care, they're just not blinded by Covid.   We can see the bigger picture and can see the other negative consequences of the lockdown that are much more serious and impact a much greater population than the risk of injury or death from Covid which is very, very low.  We can see past the emotion and look at the facts.  Screaming Shark can be very dangerous as we saw in NY and NJ when they thought the were going to run out hospital and made the deadly decision to force Covid positive patients into nursing homes.


More BS that never happened. When hospital beds become scarce, people have to act. There hasn't been a pandemic in 100 years, public health is out there to protect you and your family. We haven't even seen the end of this thing yet, you don't know the long term affects,  you convince yourself every day that life is normal, it doesn't affect you. Go back into your rat hole.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Willie said:


> Isn’t it time to accuse someone of racism, or homophobia?  Or is that angle just for EOTL account?


Thanks for confirming what we all know. Marxism is the word for today that you still can't understand or say how it applies to anything in this conversation. But good try.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> It was a joke.  99% of my post are sugared with comedy.  Man, anyone WHO knows me, no's i'm one big goof off, class clown, pest, smack talker, joker and just an all around fun guy. Life of the party.  Happy drunk kind of guy....lol.  I have zero idea what the truth is Long Game.  What age is your goat?  DS or DD or both or none at all?


Goats are currently not playing, doing other stuff, not forcing it. It sucks for everyone.


----------



## Willie (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Thanks for confirming what we all know. Marxism is the word for today that you still can't understand or say how it applies to anything in this conversation. But good try.


Interesting how you ignored the question. Are you trying to tell us that Black Lives Don’t Matter?


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 11, 2020)

Emma said:


> This is exactly what we need to do as a country to make things better.  Let's unite behind individual responsibility, logic and reason, and NOT exceptions or excuses.
> 
> Wash your hands/sanitize, social distance, and wear a mask.  You can still do whatever you want to do but be respectful towards one another.  At this time in history, respecting each other means wash your hands/sanitize, social distance, and wear a mask.
> 
> This is a team sport.


So..... I was watching photos of my friends team in Idaho playing in a tournament. Then I watched some more photos of them traveling, eating at a restaurant together. Are they in a different country? Cause it sure looks like it to me, looking at those photos.
Then I watched 1st NFL game yesterday. Players playing, some coaches wearing masks and some don't. People on the stands (can you believe it?).
Then after the game, normal handshakes and hugs. 
WTF is going on? Was this all in my dreams?


----------



## Emma (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> It's great until the last sentence and becomes totally contradictory. Acting as a team does not mean you stay home and I go out and do what I want. Doesn't mean lockdown or leave the house in a bee keeper suit, it means everyone assume the same level of responsibility or at least take it seriously, which isn't happening.


Acting as a team doesn't mean we do everything exactly alike.  Don't expect your forward to act like your goalie.  Everyone's life and roles are very different.  It means the forward will roam while keeping social distance, washing their hands, and wearing a mask.  The goalie will stay in the goal by her/himself and put on a mask when someone gets close.


----------



## watfly (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> More BS that never happened.


Your entitled to your opinion, but not your own version of the facts.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

watfly said:


> Your entitled to your opinion, but not your own version of the facts.


Neither are you.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Willie said:


> Interesting how you ignored the question. Are you trying to tell us that Black Lives Don’t Matter?


Nice try at a bully tactic, but overall weak and played out. You still never told us what Marxism is.


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 11, 2020)

Jose has returned said:


> CDC says first responders/ medical workers can return to work 10 days after onset of symptoms. If its good enough for them then it is for the rest of us so looks like two weeks off and get back after it. No big deal


Good thing medical workers all wear PPE!


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 11, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> So..... I was watching photos of my friends team in Idaho playing in a tournament. Then I watched some more photos of them traveling, eating at a restaurant together. Are they in a different country? Cause it sure looks like it to me, looking at those photos.
> Then I watched 1st NFL game yesterday. Players playing, some coaches wearing masks and some don't. People on the stands (can you believe it?).
> Then after the game, normal handshakes and hugs.
> WTF is going on? *Was this all in my dreams?*


Yes, it only in your dreams....lol!!!!


----------



## Willie (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Nice try at a bully tactic, but overall weak and played out. You still never told us what Marxism is.


I am tired if your spin and demand you answer the question of why you are implying that Black Lives Don’t Matter?  Your silence is truly deafening.


----------



## Emma (Sep 11, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> So..... I was watching photos of my friends team in Idaho playing in a tournament. Then I watched some more photos of them traveling, eating at a restaurant together. Are they in a different country? Cause it sure looks like it to me, looking at those photos.
> Then I watched 1st NFL game yesterday. Players playing, some coaches wearing masks and some don't. People on the stands (can you believe it?).
> Then after the game, normal handshakes and hugs.
> WTF is going on? Was this all in my dreams?


That was nice to watch that football game last night.  What a quarterback that Mahomes is.  Football players are socially distanced .... look at their helmets Shaking hands is dumb at this moment, they should cut it out.  I like spacing bt fans at stadium, very logical.  Eating in a crowded restaurant together - is it really worth it?  Couldn't you just get togo and eat outside in the park with a little space between each other and talk, we're loud enough. 

We shouldn't look at other people and make excuses as to why we shouldn't be doing what we need to do.  Don't we always tell our kids this? Just because other people have decided to make the situation worse does not mean we need to add to the problem.  The more people that decide to do the right thing, the better it is for our country.  Let irresponsibility and uncaring be the exception to our culture.  

I think youth soccer, done Texas style, with limited viewers and face masks - are the way to go. Don't go eat at restaurants in crowded places afterwards.  Pick up food and go to a park.  Picnics are the in thing unless there's a fire nearby.


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 11, 2020)

EOTL is now Long Game and no more EOTL?


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 11, 2020)

Willie said:


> Have you figured out yet that “thelonggame” is another one of the Marxist EOTL and espola’s accounts?


Yup, as soon as EOTL got banned for a week, "thelonggame" shows up. couldnt be more obvious. lol.


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 11, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> PS - so does Hepatitis, Influenza A and B amongst many other common viruses.
> I believe you mean well in sharing, but the realities are not as scary when you look at the bigger picture (or the fact that we all walk around with many of these so Siri is and don’t even know it is more scary).


One of the big differences is that when you get Influenza A or B you know it! With covid you don't necessarily know you have it. Therefore you might not know you have inflammation of the heart even if you have symptoms of fatigue etc. and might jeopardize your health. Parents need to be very observant of their children and talk to their health care professional if they suspect something is off with their child.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Yup, as soon as EOTL got banned for a week, "thelonggame" shows up. couldnt be more obvious. lol.


More conspiracy BS. You guys watch too much of this stuff and believe it. Talk about a herd mentality. There is more than one person looking out for the greater good, there has to be to keep up.


----------



## Willie (Sep 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Yup, as soon as EOTL got banned for a week, "thelonggame" shows up. couldnt be more obvious. lol.


EOTL/thelonggame is one pathetic loser.


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 11, 2020)

SoccerFan6 said:


> OK, I contacted some Blues people I know.  Here's what the email said.  2 coaches and 1 player tested positive.  Based on their lack of exposure to each other and the timeframes of positive tests, they did not contract it from each other.  The teams those people are associated with are on a 2 week brea
> 
> 
> SoccerFan6 said:
> ...


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 11, 2020)

Emma said:


> Well done of the Blues.  Good email and good handling of the situation.


So did they share it with everyone or just


Jose has returned said:


> Everyone is responsible for their own actions.  With the exception of those that need caretakers.   We have enough info to know that if you WASH your hands, SOCIAL DISTANCE, WEAR A MASK the chances are down to nil.  Protect yourself at all times no matter what others do. Use universal precautions. If you send your  Kids go to school then treat them as infected, if the go play soccer treat them as infected  and do the big 3 actions.  If you are worried then stay home and isolate and there will not be an issue for you or your family.


Chances are nil?  Tell that to health care workers who do all you mentioned plus wear a lot of PPE.


----------



## watfly (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Go back into your rat hole.


BTW you won't find me in a rat hole.  You can find me at work, the beach, fishing, a restaurant, Home Depot, soccer practice or watching my son's pickup scrimmages.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

watfly said:


> BTW you won't find me in a rat hole.  You can find me at work, the beach, fishing, a restaurant, Home Depot, soccer practice or watching my son's pickup scrimmages.


Why look at the NY incident during a chaotic time when the virus infection rate was off the charts and not the global picture of almost a million people dying of this virus? Why pick and choose what fits your lifestyle and not what's really going on? Somehow NY is the problem when the world is going through this?


----------



## El Clasico (Sep 11, 2020)

gefelchnik said:


> I have seen some really bottom feeder stuff on this forum.  But you making light of a situation with a Coach who may be ill...this is the worst thing I have read.


Then you haven't read much...


----------



## dad4 (Sep 11, 2020)

watfly said:


> BTW you won't find me in a rat hole.  You can find me at work, the beach, fishing, a restaurant, Home Depot, soccer practice or watching my son's pickup scrimmages.


How long is the asymptomatic contagious period for covid, and how many people, on average, do you meet over that period?

None of us are in rat holes.  The question is whether you have a lot of contacts (part of the problem) or few contacts (part of the solution).


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Sep 11, 2020)

Emma said:


> I think youth soccer, done Texas style, with limited viewers and face masks - are the way to go. Don't go eat at restaurants in crowded places afterwards.  Pick up food and go to a park.  Picnics are the in thing unless there's a fire nearby.


This is where I am. From what I see, the socialization before and after the game are considerably higher risks than the actual soccer game. We are shown by the students going back to college that when people who haven't been around each other start socializing in any normal manner, the virus will spread.


----------



## Jose has returned (Sep 11, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> So did they share it with everyone or just
> 
> 
> Chances are nil?  Tell that to health care workers who do all you mentioned plus wear a lot of PPE.


yes, i know they figured it out too.


----------



## Jose has returned (Sep 11, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Good thing medical workers all wear PPE!


as they should all the ones I know do.


----------



## Jose has returned (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Great, more live free or die BS. Again, works great until someone gets seriously ill or dies. Until then, everyone do what they want, get mad at government for trying protect us, get mad at the legal system we all have used and abused, blame someone else, but whatever you do, don't get in the middle of me and my kid going to play soccer whenever and where ever and with whoever we choose.


sounds like a good plan.  Protect yourself it really works.  My work place had an out break 30  got it 30 did not.  one side let their guard down and others did not. I was one who let his guard down after being vigilant.  I had a co  worker in a closed cab truck wearing a mask while i was exposed and developed symptoms the next day.  He never got sick.  Clean your space, wash your hands, mask and SD when possible.  Its not  hard. If you area caretaker then protect hose that can't protect themselves. Hospital workers are not getting this like they did in the beginning they use their universal precaution protocol like they are supposed to.  If you do that you will be fine. If you are still worried stay home and protect your family.  But this isn't going anywhere for a while.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Sep 11, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> This is where I am. From what I see, the socialization before and after the game are considerably higher risks than the actual soccer game. We are shown by the students going back to college that when people who haven't been around each other start socializing in any normal manner, the virus will spread.


My kids might feel differently, but not hanging out with other parents before, during, and after the game?  I love it!


----------



## watfly (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Why look at the NY incident during a chaotic time when the virus infection rate was off the charts and not the global picture of almost a million people dying of this virus? Why pick and choose what fits your lifestyle and not what's really going on? Somehow NY is the problem when the world is going through this?


Again mischaracterizes what I'm saying.  NY and NJ are just an example of what happens when you scream shark and overreact to a situation which makes the situation far worse.  Those states actions were in direct contradiction to what the guidance from the CDC was.  Now I'll will grant you that because NY was hit first they were to some extent a victim of timing (I mentioned that in another thread) but there were also other factors like NY (particularly NYC) having the worst rated hospitals for quality and safety in the US due to State budget cuts.

Certainly emotion and anecdotal information plays a roll in shaping our opinions.  Anecdotally for me, I directly know 2 people during this time period that have OD'd or committed suicide (one adult, one teenager), one teenager that attempted suicide, and one teenager at our high school that committed suicide.  On the other hand, I only know 2 people directly that have had Covid (only with flu like symptoms) and a friend of a friend that was hospitalized with Covid.  I also have an 88 year old mom with co-conditions who says being on lockdown and not seeing her grandchildren is not living...so she sees her grandchildren on a fairly regular basis.  So that's my emotional perspective...now let's look at the facts.

Dr. Birx said from the beginning that we have to look at and fight the virus on a "granular", or county by county basis.  So let's look at SD County where I live.  Its done a tremendous job despite the fact that its a border town where many of the cases have originated.  Overall only .097% of the population has been hospitalized being Covid positive, and only .022% have died as Covid positive.  Those percentages decrease dramatically the younger you are.  This is worst case scenario since it doesn't consider cause of death from comorbidities.  Covid is serious, but its not the boogieman that some are making it out to be whether out of fear, or out of the power to control people's behavior.


HospitalizedDeathsSDCovid% ofCovid% ofAge GroupPopulationPositivePop.PositivePop.0-9 Years             433,599                    430.010%​                     - 0.000%​10-19 Years             433,694                    480.011%​                     - 0.000%​20-29 Years             530,918                  1940.037%​                       30.001%​30-39 Years             490,007                  2820.058%​                       50.001%​40-49 Years             399,146                  3550.089%​                    280.007%​50-59 Years             404,442                  6050.150%​                    610.015%​60-69 Years             340,330                  6760.199%​                  1310.038%​70-79 Years             199,891                  5140.257%​                  1620.081%​80+ Years             119,827                  5340.446%​                  3350.280%​Total         3,351,856              3,2510.097%​                  7250.022%​


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 11, 2020)




----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

watfly said:


> Again mischaracterizes what I'm saying.  NY and NJ are just an example of what happens when you scream shark and overreact to a situation which makes the situation far worse.  Those states actions were in direct contradiction to what the guidance from the CDC was.  Now I'll will grant you that because NY was hit first they were to some extent a victim of timing (I mentioned that in another thread) but there were also other factors like NY (particularly NYC) having the worst rated hospitals for quality and safety in the US due to State budget cuts.
> 
> Certainly emotion and anecdotal information plays a roll in shaping our opinions.  Anecdotally for me, I directly know 2 people during this time period that have OD'd or committed suicide (one adult, one teenager), one teenager that attempted suicide, and one teenager at our high school that committed suicide.  On the other hand, I only know 2 people directly that have had Covid (only with flu like symptoms) and a friend of a friend that was hospitalized with Covid.  I also have an 88 year old mom with co-conditions who says being on lockdown and not seeing her grandchildren is not living...so she sees her grandchildren on a fairly regular basis.  So that's my emotional perspective...now let's look at the facts.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the facts. Here's the issue. This is a public health emergency. You're looking at local data, so that should make you us all feel better when we go to the market or a restaurant if we follow all the rules. But why apply this data to soccer? Unlike 30 years ago, the sport is not all local. We're always interacting with a lot of people in almost every situation in a competitive game, especially a tournament. And because it's soccer, it's every segment of the population, some who are more at risk and those at low risk. Public health takes into account everybody, so crossing city and state lines makes whatever is happening in your particular area meaningless and not only throws off the data it increases the risk so that the rules need to apply to everyone. Every American at the moment has a relative either at risk, depressed, financially strapped. No one is immune to this.  No one should be looking at the world today as if it was a year ago, and people are and that's what's causing the stress.


----------



## watfly (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> I appreciate the facts. Here's the issue. This is a public health emergency. You're looking at local data, so that should make you us all feel better when we go to the market or a restaurant if we follow all the rules. But why apply this data to soccer? Unlike 30 years ago, the sport is not all local. We're always interacting with a lot of people in almost every situation in a competitive game, especially a tournament. And because it's soccer, it's every segment of the population, some who are more at risk and those at low risk. Public health takes into account everybody, so crossing city and state lines makes whatever is happening in your particular area meaningless and not only throws off the data it increases the risk so that the rules need to apply to everyone. Every American at the moment has a relative either at risk, depressed, financially strapped. No one is immune to this.  No one should be looking at the world today as if it was a year ago, and people are and that's what's causing the stress.


Actually, all I really care about, which I've said many times, is getting kids back in school which can be confined locally for the most part.  It's abhorrent to me that kids are being used as political pawns as I've claimed previously and which is now been confirmed by the LA County "Health" Director. 

Soccer is a luxury compared to education.  I don't know anyone that would complain too much if kids were only allowed to have games within their own county.  We were informed by our coach that we would play SD County teams to start the MLS League season.

Ultimately, the US is not well designed to handle a pandemic due to the freedoms we're guaranteed.  It is a public health crisis that hopefully we will learn from, but its a public health crisis the impacts very few, particularly children which evidence indicates aren't significant spreaders.  There has to be reasonable decisions made based on science and not emotion or politics.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 11, 2020)

watfly said:


> Ultimately, the US is not well designed to handle a pandemic due to the freedoms we're guaranteed.


Actually no government is really prepared to handle a new virus.

I was just doing a count of deaths in W. Europe. Total is 176k in that region. They didn't nail it either. Many of those countries are now seeing spikes in cases that are equal to or higher vs their original wave. Their lockdowns certainly didnt eliminate the virus. As they open up, the virus is there.

Some of what the virus does is luck it seems. As posted earlier Africa has experts confused as to why they have had so few deaths. One would expect they would have gotten hit hard.


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 11, 2020)

Our family spends a lot of time in a Lake Tahoe....we are heading up next month.  Weather starts to get cold.   Many, many small businesses there...restaurants, bars, shops, etc. that cater to vacationers and residents.  Also resorts, etc.  Temperature is going to drop, these businesses will no longer be able to rely on parking lot tables/venues...that town is going to be in a serious world of hurt under the current regulations.  It could put the town in real financial jeopardy.

Going to be real interesting what happens IMHO. Will they “magically” get an exception, will the “data” work in their favor? What will our State Leadership do? As California Turns...

Forget Covid, what about TB?  Anybody take a look at that?  Lots of stuff out there that will make you sick, and or kill you.  Let’s just wear bubble suits and have the kids play soccer in the bubble balls...That will protect us all from everything, right?  Open in other places.  California is “too smart” to take that risk.

Saw a comedian online that suggested you might as well add a condom to to your mask and glove uniform to be extra protected and protect yourself against STD’s...They are out there.  Be careful he said...made me laugh.


Cancer, Heart Disease, Obesity....nobody going after processed foods/beverages with High Fructose Corn Syrup, or other dangerous ingredients...Many many things more deadly than Covid and with long term effects as well.  No reform required there though right?

Just wear your mask, social distance, take a year from your kids childhood...it’s for the greater good, it’s a Pandemic you know....This whole thing is as political as some of the other things on in our country - just look at the State Leadership, and that of some of the Teacher’s Unions - World Peace, Wealth Tax demands...Jesus...

The data shows healthy under 50 have a low low low mortality rates...multiple sources...Are people still denying this?  Anybody else out there feel there are quite a few degrees of manipulation going on?

Short week, just tired of doing my kid’s teachers job for them and figuring out why they only have 30 minute Zoom Classes and school ends at 12pm...it’s about 5‘0 Clock for me once I remember/figure out how to teach one of my kids Trig (I thought I was done with this shit).


----------



## watfly (Sep 11, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Actually no government is really prepared to handle a new virus.
> 
> I was just doing a count of deaths in W. Europe. Total is 176k in that region. They didn't nail it either. Many of those countries are now seeing spikes in cases that are equal to or higher vs their original wave. Their lockdowns certainly didnt eliminate the virus. As they open up, the virus is there.
> 
> Some of what the virus does is luck it seems. As posted earlier Africa has experts confused as to why they have had so few deaths. One would expect they would have gotten hit hard.


Predicting what this virus will do, rosy or doomsday, is a fools errand.  That's why we need to learn to live with it.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> Dude put a sock in your mouth. Please and stay home.


Dude, screw yourself. You are the most short sighted person on this forum. You care only about your kid improving at soccer and have organized public events that put people at risk just to do that despite the obvious risks involved. You are all about you. Fucking stay home.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 11, 2020)

watfly said:


> That's why we need to learn to live with it.


Yep. Look at the data and go from there. We know who is at risk. And yet the solution offered up is to limit everyone. 

And when someone says, let people live their life, if you are at risk stay home. The comeback is what if a kid has an at risk parent/grandparent at home? Basically them saying nobody should do anything. The obvious answer is...if you are living with someone at high risk then don't run around. That is the logical solution vs saying well some parent might be at risk...therefore nobody can do anything.


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 11, 2020)

by the way how that tournament went @Luis Andres?


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 11, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> by the way how that tournament went @Luis Andres?


Eagle, I got PM two weeks ago it was called off because folks from HQ was not all too happy.  A week later another pal told me some rumor mill stuff but I kept it to myself.  I wasn;t 100% in the scoop was like Lulu.  Luis, make the force be with you brother.  Welcome back and, yes,  I do believe in miracles and the fact your alive and well brings my heart great joy


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Yep. Look at the data and go from there. We know who is at risk. And yet the solution offered up is to limit everyone.
> 
> And when someone says, let people live their life, if you are at risk stay home. The comeback is what if a kid has an at risk parent/grandparent at home? Basically them saying nobody should do anything. The obvious answer is...if you are living with someone at high risk then don't run around. That is the logical solution vs saying well some parent might be at risk...therefore nobody can do anything.


So public health applies to everyone except you? You get a magical exception because {insert reason}. Alerts apply to everyone but you should be able to live your life. Your logic is based on your risk level, damn everyone else. That's why this is a public health emergency. When the emergency is gone, you can resume business as usual. Why is that so hard to understand?


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 11, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> Eagle, I got PM two weeks ago it was called off because folks from HQ was not all too happy.  A week later another pal told me some rumor mill stuff but I kept it to myself.  I wasn;t 100% in the scoop was like Lulu.  Luis, make the force be with you brother.  Welcome back and, yes,  I do believe in miracles and the fact your alive and well brings my heart great joy


damn, I was really hoping for this to happen and pave the way for the rest of us......


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

watfly said:


> Actually, all I really care about, which I've said many times, is getting kids back in school which can be confined locally for the most part.  It's abhorrent to me that kids are being used as political pawns as I've claimed previously and which is now been confirmed by the LA County "Health" Director.
> 
> Soccer is a luxury compared to education.  I don't know anyone that would complain too much if kids were only allowed to have games within their own county.  We were informed by our coach that we would play SD County teams to start the MLS League season.
> 
> Ultimately, the US is not well designed to handle a pandemic due to the freedoms we're guaranteed.  It is a public health crisis that hopefully we will learn from, but its a public health crisis the impacts very few, particularly children which evidence indicates aren't significant spreaders.  There has to be reasonable decisions made based on science and not emotion or politics.


Kids are not being used as pawns. Every time schools try to open up again some kids get sick and they have to shut it down to protect the greatest number.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> When the emergency is gone, you can resume business as usual. Why is that so hard to understand?


Because of a number of reasons not in order of importance. 

- We have no idea how long this will last. Do we kill off business, harm education, etc on and on, not knowing when this will end? 
- We know the vast majority of people have little to no risk
- We know who is at risk, and they are the ones who should be staying out of the public
- We are killing off business and the jobs associated with them
- We are severely reducing tax revenue to fed, state, local entities which in turn will mean cutbacks in services they provide
- Etc etc.

We are now 7 months into this we no end in sight. At some point you have to pull up your pants and start going on with life.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Every time schools try to open up again some kids get sick and they have to shut it down to protect the greatest number.


Correction. Tests positive (not sick)...then people like you freak out. 

Under 24yr old aged individuals have about 360 or so total deaths related to covid out of 195k. Their risk profile in that age group is flu like. 

Someone around here published the university numbers. 26k or so tested positive since they have gone back to the universities. ZERO hospitalizations


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Because of a number of reasons not in order of importance.
> 
> - We have no idea how long this will last. Do we kill off business, harm education, etc on and on, not knowing when this will end?
> - We know the vast majority of people have little to no risk
> ...


Try that last sentence again without the reference to manning up because we already know people go to work in unsafe environments because they have to, not because they're trying to man up. You interact with those people every day when they serve you food or ring you up at the supermarket. There's enough stories out there about people who were in great shape and got worked by COVID. All the reasons are important and everyone can appreciate them. And the reasons for all of them also apply to you.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Correction. Tests positive (not sick)...then people like you freak out.
> 
> Under 24yr old aged individuals have about 360 or so total deaths related to covid out of 195k. Their risk profile in that age group is flu like.
> 
> Someone around here published the university numbers. 26k or so tested positive since they have gone back to the universities. ZERO hospitalizations


You have no proof that there have been zero hospitalizations, you have no proof of how people suffered or who they infected and their long term affects. This is all based on your view of this, which is not based on fact and ignores science and all the warnings that are out there.


----------



## Jose has returned (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> You have no proof that there have been zero hospitalizations, you have no proof of how people suffered or who they infected and their long term affects. This is all based on your view of this, which is not based on fact and ignores science and all the warnings that are out there.


neither do you


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Jose has returned said:


> neither do you


An SDSU student was hospitalized. There are no absolutes with this virus, yet you think soccer is more important and you think you know more than everyone else. This is why the US has lost the war on this virus and is in no position to beat it.


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> An SDSU student was hospitalized. There are no absolutes with this virus, yet you think soccer is more important and you think you know more than everyone else. This is why the US has lost the war on this virus and is in no position to beat it.


We were never in a position to beat it. Don't kid yourself.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 11, 2020)

Pew pew has a point, we all at one time p


thelonggame said:


> An SDSU student was hospitalized. There are no absolutes with this virus, yet you think soccer is more important and you think you know more than everyone else. This is why the US has lost the war on this virus and is in no position to beat it.


Germany cant stop it either despite being a model country to combat COVID.  Now people are protesting because they dont want to go back to quarantine days.  I was all for it but 7 months is now too long and it's not going away for at least 2 years. 






						Germany COVID-19 stats - Realtime coronavirus statistics with charts
					

Monitoring of epidemic. Real-time coronavirus statistics. Live COVID-19 stats with charts for Germany.




					epidemic-stats.com


----------



## watfly (Sep 11, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> We were never in a position to beat it. Don't kid yourself.


Beat the virus, kill the economy...and people's mental health, etc.  You actually can't beat a virus, at least not in a few months or years, and that wasn't even the goal.  The goal was flatten the curve, which we did months ago.  The goal posts keeping getting moved and now were looking at cures and vaccines. Or until the election is over as stated by LA's health director.

It's sad that politicians are putting a disproportionate amount of the burden on those who are least likely to get it and really have zero chance of dying from it (and spare me "they're going to kill granny" propaganda).


----------



## happy9 (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> More BS that never happened. When hospital beds become scarce, people have to act. There hasn't been a pandemic in 100 years, public health is out there to protect you and your family. We haven't even seen the end of this thing yet, you don't know the long term affects,  you convince yourself every day that life is normal, it doesn't affect you. Go back into your rat hole.


Never mind the that in NYC,  there were plenty of beds made available, but we'll gloss over that for now, doesn't fit a narrative.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Sep 11, 2020)

watfly said:


> (and spare me "they're going to kill granny" propaganda).


Cue TheLOngamE


----------



## watfly (Sep 11, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Cue TheLOngamE


I see what you did there, but it took me a minute.


----------



## happy9 (Sep 11, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Our family spends a lot of time in a Lake Tahoe....we are heading up next month.  Weather starts to get cold.   Many, many small businesses there...restaurants, bars, shops, etc. that cater to vacationers and residents.  Also resorts, etc.  Temperature is going to drop, these businesses will no longer be able to rely on parking lot tables/venues...that town is going to be in a serious world of hurt under the current regulations.  It could put the town in real financial jeopardy.
> 
> Going to be real interesting what happens IMHO. Will they “magically” get an exception, will the “data” work in their favor? What will our State Leadership do? As California Turns...


Was in Tahoe late july.  This was a topic of conversation at every restaurant we ate at.  How frightening as a business owner is it to have to think about their life work/investment going down the drain at the hands of someone/a group that has a stable job.  Government is certainly not an economic driver.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

watfly said:


> Beat the virus, kill the economy...and people's mental health, etc.  You actually can't beat a virus, at least not in a few months or years, and that wasn't even the goal.  The goal was flatten the curve, which we did months ago.  The goal posts keeping getting moved and now were looking at cures and vaccines. Or until the election is over as stated by LA's health director.
> 
> It's sad that politicians are putting a disproportionate amount of the burden on those who are least likely to get it and really have zero chance of dying from it (and spare me "they're going to kill granny" propaganda).


Disagree. Any intelligent plan 6 months ago puts us in decent shape now. Regionally there are huge parts of the country that never needed to suffer due to low population density. No one thought it through because they downplayed it starting in February, that cat is already out of the bag. Big businesses put plans in place immediately to have people work from home and completely change their operations overnight and they're capitalizing on it now. We could've tapped into that easily just like we did in 2008. Our only and biggest mistake is your way of thinking; fact is we lacked the ability to be creative and plan and take it seriously. The USA should've been a model for this. Even after 9/11 we had threat levels, we took it seriously, plans were being made to protect people.


----------



## Jose has returned (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> An SDSU student was hospitalized. There are no absolutes with this virus, yet you think soccer is more important and you think you know more than everyone else. This is why the US has lost the war on this virus and is in no position to beat it.


you think you are the expert all you are is a nag. nag nag nag that is all you do.  grow a spine and man up unless you are a woman then woman up.  either way stop being scared of something you have no control over.  Control your actions.WASH, DISTANCE, MASK out of those washing your hands is probably the most important
 If people want to play soccer then stay home and let them play stop being a nanny goat. If they get sick they can deal with it. everyone has the facts .


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> We were never in a position to beat it. Don't kid yourself.


Given our current situation, that's true. But anyone on this forum who works in any business big or small knows that you have to be prepared to act with the correct mindset. We were doomed.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Jose has returned said:


> you think you are the expert all you are is a nag. nag nag nag that is all you do.  grow a spine and man up unless you are a woman then woman up.  either way stop being scared of something you have no control over.  Control your actions.WASH, DISTANCE, MASK out of those washing your hands is probably the most important
> If people want to play soccer then stay home and let them play stop being a nanny goat. If they get sick they can deal with it. everyone has the facts .


You have no fucking clue what the fuck you are talking about, and your machismo is getting in the way of reality. Every time you tell people to go out and play, everyone tells themselves that someone else is doing it and it makes it ok and we make no progress. Stop fucking bragging about how cool you and enlightened you are. It's a fucking global pandemic, you live in a country that has failed it, after a while we'll have a handle on it and we can get back to normal, until then stop thinking you are an expert because people actually believe you and get mad that their kid isn't playing.


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 11, 2020)

Jose has returned said:


> you think you are the expert all you are is a nag. nag nag nag that is all you do.  grow a spine and man up unless you are a woman then woman up.  either way stop being scared of something you have no control over.  Control your actions.WASH, DISTANCE, MASK out of those washing your hands is probably the most important
> If people want to play soccer then stay home and let them play stop being a *nanny goat. *If they get sick they can deal with it. everyone has the facts .


----------



## Jose has returned (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> You have no fucking clue what the fuck you are talking about, and your machismo is getting in the way of reality. Every time you tell people to go out and play, everyone tells themselves that someone else is doing it and it makes it ok and we make no progress. Stop fucking bragging about how cool you and enlightened you are. It's a fucking global pandemic, you live in a country that has failed it, after a while we'll have a handle on it and we can get back to normal, until then stop thinking you are an expert because people actually believe you and get mad that their kid isn't playing.


if you do nothing else with your life stop being a nag it is so unbecoming.


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 11, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Was in Tahoe late july.  This was a topic of conversation at every restaurant we ate at.  How frightening as a business owner is it to have to think about their life work/investment going down the drain at the hands of someone/a group that has a stable job.  Government is certainly not an economic driver.


Yep...it is very sad.  It’s a shame what could happen there.  We were there in July as well before they shutdown again.  We are up there about 5 or so x’s a year.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Disagree. Any intelligent plan 6 months ago puts us in decent shape now.


There have only been 3 plans in the world that have been successful.  They invovle:

1. Being an island and locking your border before it becomes a problem 
2. Being a communist dictatorship capable of forcing testing, separating families, throwing dissenters into jail, and welding people into apartments.
3. Australia.  The problem with Australia though is they are at a minimum looking at repeated lockdowns each time the thing surges, or a perpetual lockdown.  You also have to lockdown intraprovince transport (banned by the US Constitution) and seal your border (tough consider our southern outbreak was fueled in significant part by the really bad outbreak in Mexico).

Nowhere else has been successful.  Some have mitigated better than others (though Norway and Denmark now seem to indicate that has more to do with luck than anything).  Some have done better than others, sometimes with draconian measure (see SK). But government containment measures other than the above 3 cases have been almost uniformly a disaster, and regardless of the type of government the country has.


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 11, 2020)

In this clip we see goat dads and goat mama bears babbling themselves away.  Pick which one suits you.  I'm for sure the blond one at the beginning. I have my thoughts on which ones remind me of Long Game ((EOTL & Espy & Messy))


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> There have only been 3 plans in the world that have been successful.  They invovle:
> 
> 1. Being an island and locking your border before it becomes a problem
> 2. Being a communist dictatorship capable of forcing testing, separating families, throwing dissenters into jail, and welding people into apartments.
> ...


The USA always takes the lead in issues such as these, that's why we are the greatest country in the world. We gave up before trying. No way I'm giving in with this kind of cop out, we have to be better and can still be better.


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Disagree. Any intelligent plan 6 months ago puts us in decent shape now. Regionally there are huge parts of the country that never needed to suffer due to low population density. No one thought it through because they downplayed it starting in February, that cat is already out of the bag. Big businesses put plans in place immediately to have people work from home and completely change their operations overnight and they're capitalizing on it now. We could've tapped into that easily just like we did in 2008. Our only and biggest mistake is your way of thinking; fact is we lacked the ability to be creative and plan and take it seriously. The USA should've been a model for this. Even after 9/11 we had threat levels, we took it seriously, plans were being made to protect people.


Tell me honestly, how would Biden have done better? Our other future choice as president.  He straight up admitted that Trumps decision to ban chinese nationals was a good call.  He, along with many democrat leaders at the time called him racist for doing that.  At that time, he said he would not have banned travel.  knowing this information, how could you honestly say Biden would have been better?   When Trump created the coronavirus task force, banned travel, and tried to ramp up testing, Democrat leaders were literally out in the streets telling people to come visit chinatown and that the virus was nothing to be afraid of. Even mainstream media was saying that there was nothing to be afraid of, based off "Science".  Our expert Fauci told the public they didnt need masks.  Trump, if you look at his actions, was ahead of the curve compared to our democrat leaders. Its comical to listen to the left and the media (who was the first to call it a "Chinese/Wuhan Virus") blame Trump months later.









						Nancy Pelosi Visits San Francisco's Chinatown Amid Coronavirus Concerns
					

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi toured San Francisco’s Chinatown Monday to send a message. She said there’s no reason tourists or locals should be staying away from the area because of coronavirus concerns.




					www.nbcbayarea.com
				












						Mayor de Blasio Encourages New Yorkers to Visit Asian-American Owned Small Businesses
					

Mayor Bill de Blasio declares Flushing, Queens open for business.



					www1.nyc.gov
				

















						Biden campaign says he backs Trump's China travel ban | CNN Politics
					

Joe Biden's campaign said Friday the former vice president supports President Donald Trump's January 31 decision to ban foreign nationals who had been in China within the previous 14 days from entering the United States.




					www.cnn.com
				









*BANNED
DOMINIC*


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 11, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Disagree. Any intelligent plan 6 months ago puts us in decent shape now. Regionally there are huge parts of the country that never needed to suffer due to low population density. No one thought it through because they downplayed it starting in February, that cat is already out of the bag. Big businesses put plans in place immediately to have people work from home and completely change their operations overnight and they're capitalizing on it now. We could've tapped into that easily just like we did in 2008. Our only and biggest mistake is your way of thinking; fact is we lacked the ability to be creative and plan and take it seriously. The USA should've been a model for this. Even after 9/11 we had threat levels, we took it seriously, plans were being made to protect people.


You forgot, in your opinion.


----------



## Jose has returned (Sep 11, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> There have only been 3 plans in the world that have been successful.  They invovle:
> 
> 1. Being an island and locking your border before it becomes a problem
> 2. Being a communist dictatorship capable of forcing testing, separating families, throwing dissenters into jail, and welding people into apartments.
> ...


regarding #1 the island  NZ did that and they  were great then someone came in and started it up.  Doing what they did only delays the inevitable if it was to flatten the curve like the professionals sold us on they did good but sooner or later they will have it. IMO


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 11, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Tell me honestly, how would Biden have done better? Our other future choice as president.  He straight up admitted that Trumps decision to ban chinese nationals was a good call.  He, along with many democrat leaders at the time called him racist for doing that.  At that time, he said he would not have banned travel.  knowing this information, how could you honestly say Biden would have been better?   When Trump created the coronavirus task force, banned travel, and tried to ramp up testing, Democrat leaders were literally out in the streets telling people to come visit chinatown and that the virus was nothing to be afraid of. Even mainstream media was saying that there was nothing to be afraid of, based off "Science".  Our expert Fauci told the public they didnt need masks.  Trump, if you look at his actions, was ahead of the curve compared to our democrat leaders. Its comical to listen to the left and the media (who was the first to call it a "Chinese/Wuhan Virus") blame Trump months later.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mistakes were made at all levels initially, no argument. It was an impossible situation that we were presented with at that moment. We agree. I have read what you said, so now consider my opinion. We never had a chance because, as we know now, we were lied to from the very beginning by the one person who was supposed to lead us and because of that have been at war with ourselves every since. If we were not lied to, we would've made progress from the very beginning. This cannot be denied. Every problem in your life that starts in a lie ends in failure at some point. 

Bring it back to soccer. Mindset. Over the years our GOATS presented themselves with problems after a game, when it matters. Either we saw the errors or they told us.. Did we deny that the issues exist or did we do everything we could to fix it? Did we ever allow them to have a losing mindset? How much $$$$ did we burn to make them better, every minute of every day. Videos, training, in the rain, in the sun, with friends, in the yard, alone. Tryouts, fail, succeed, fail, succeed. We have all been there. We are all soccer parents. But NEVER ONCE did we ever deny the problem and have any success as a result. The worst of us blamed the weather, blamed the other team, blamed the coach (ok, we had reasons). And every time we blamed, over time, we learned that the player could eventually figure it out in some way if we gave them tools to do so, we learned who the GOAT really was. Some of us are still in denial about our player, that's the worst of us.  But we never gave up and we never, ever, ever let our kid give up and we always found a way to make our kid better and gave them every resource we could until the bitter end. The resources of parents are never ending when it comes to soccer. We have lived it. 

Bring it back to the pandemic. We blamed everyone. We endlessly denied. We used resources poorly over and over and over. We hid from it. We did everything we would never do as parents. We never faced the problem. As a nation, we never even competed. It's embarassing that on 9/11 that we are still facing a bigger problem than we had 19 years ago. Denial. At least with the current incoming folks, there is reason for optimism and hope. We totally don't have that now. There is no message of hope, it is only fear and running way from issues that are real. Just go outside today and try to breath. With this mindset, every one of our GOATS would be a failure.


----------



## Emma (Sep 11, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> This is where I am. From what I see, the socialization before and after the game are considerably higher risks than the actual soccer game. We are shown by the students going back to college that when people who haven't been around each other start socializing in any normal manner, the virus will spread.


I agree.  That's why - if you want to have lunch after, go to a park and sit spaced out a little.  If not, don't do it at all.  A lot of our socializing has been with distance.  There's no more hugging or rough playing.  Talking is done with distance and space  bt people.  This might actually teach our kids to respect personal space.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 11, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> There have only been 3 plans in the world that have been successful.  They invovle:
> 
> 1. Being an island and locking your border before it becomes a problem
> 2. Being a communist dictatorship capable of forcing testing, separating families, throwing dissenters into jail, and welding people into apartments.
> ...


Island, dictatorship, or Australia, you say....

Which one is Germany?  They are democratic, continental, and not currently part of Australia.

And they are completely kicking our butts on virus control.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 11, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Island, dictatorship, or Australia, you say....
> 
> Which one is Germany?  They are democratic, continental, and not currently part of Australia.
> 
> And they are completely kicking our butts on virus control.


Once again you and I agree, but not for the reasons you think.  Germany has employed a targeted lockdown approach which seems to have been more effective for less pain than the mass lockdowns employed by the US, Spain or the UK.  Germany has had less testing than we have throughout, and their testing is less sensitive leading to fewer false positives and they restrict their testing to symptomatics or confirmed exposures.  Germany has only until very recently had a mask policy, and it makes a lot more sense (being restricted in most states to transport and indoors).  Germany has scaled back its vast ambitions on test and trace to things more targeted, such as workplace and school transmissions.  Germany has schools open despite the rising case count.  Germany has adopted a go-slow approach to the vaccine, in stark contrast to either project Warp Speed or the UK approach.  Germany in stark contrast to its northern neighbors or NY/NJ, has been very restrictive with its nursing homes and didn't order them to take COVID positive patients.  Germany has made an effective but non draconian use of quarantines for people returning from summer holidays.  All good stuff.  I'd be in favor.

But since they are doing in many respects less than we are (including a failure to travel ban Spain where a ton of Germans keep holiday homes), I don't think it's the government policies that are holding it off.  In fact, at this point, it's got to be either: cross immunity, cross vaccinations, genetics or seasonality.  Have they done better and at less cost?  Yes, and I like it.  But they haven't been able to hold off the virus since cases in Germany are now higher daily than in Sweden.  Indeed, I was reading a Spanish paper this morning which postulates the reason for the difference between the Spanish and Germans is that the Spanish have very extended friends and families and are very social and touchy feely while the Germans are much more distant and have smaller extended families--- it may be as simple as that.  But their curve is beginning to look a lot like Los Angeles'.  In the end I think they will do better than us, but the virus is going to virus so when we look back on it a year from now I don't think we'll be able to say they kicked our butts.  Time will tell....so far given what's happening in Scandinavia (where previously spared Norway and Denmark are now having issues), Sweden may have the last laugh.





__





						Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
					





					www.bloomberg.com
				












						Germany COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
					

Germany Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.




					www.worldometers.info


----------



## messy (Sep 11, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Once again you and I agree, but not for the reasons you think.  Germany has employed a targeted lockdown approach which seems to have been more effective for less pain than the mass lockdowns employed by the US, Spain or the UK.  Germany has had less testing than we have throughout, and their testing is less sensitive leading to fewer false positives and they restrict their testing to symptomatics or confirmed exposures.  Germany has only until very recently had a mask policy, and it makes a lot more sense (being restricted in most states to transport and indoors).  Germany has scaled back its vast ambitions on test and trace to things more targeted, such as workplace and school transmissions.  Germany has schools open despite the rising case count.  Germany has adopted a go-slow approach to the vaccine, in stark contrast to either project Warp Speed or the UK approach.  Germany in stark contrast to its northern neighbors or NY/NJ, has been very restrictive with its nursing homes and didn't order them to take COVID positive patients.  Germany has made an effective but non draconian use of quarantines for people returning from summer holidays.  All good stuff.  I'd be in favor.
> 
> But since they are doing in many respects less than we are (including a failure to travel ban Spain where a ton of Germans keep holiday homes), I don't think it's the government policies that are holding it off.  In fact, at this point, it's got to be either: cross immunity, cross vaccinations, genetics or seasonality.  Have they done better and at less cost?  Yes, and I like it.  But they haven't been able to hold off the virus since cases in Germany are now higher daily than in Sweden.  Indeed, I was reading a Spanish paper this morning which postulates the reason for the difference between the Spanish and Germans is that the Spanish have very extended friends and families and are very social and touchy feely while the Germans are much more distant and have smaller extended families--- it may be as simple as that.  But their curve is beginning to look a lot like Los Angeles'.  In the end I think they will do better than us, but the virus is going to virus so when we look back on it a year from now I don't think we'll be able to say they kicked our butts.  Time will tell....so far given what's happening in Scandinavia (where previously spared Norway and Denmark are now having issues), Sweden may have the last laugh.
> 
> ...


In a year from now Germany will have still kicked our butts. That’s already clear.
And today Trump told us we’re “turning the corner” and “the cases are plunging.” He is a complete danger to our republic.

*WARNING
DOMINIC*


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 11, 2020)

messy said:


> In a year from now Germany will have still kicked our butts. That’s already clear.
> And today Trump told us we’re “turning the corner” and “the cases are plunging.” He is a complete danger to our republic.


Once again all roads lead to politics....


----------



## pewpew (Sep 11, 2020)

I thought this thread was originally about an email from Blues.......


----------



## dad4 (Sep 11, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Once again you and I agree, but not for the reasons you think.  Germany has employed a targeted lockdown approach which seems to have been more effective for less pain than the mass lockdowns employed by the US, Spain or the UK.  Germany has had less testing than we have throughout, and their testing is less sensitive leading to fewer false positives and they restrict their testing to symptomatics or confirmed exposures.  Germany has only until very recently had a mask policy, and it makes a lot more sense (being restricted in most states to transport and indoors).  Germany has scaled back its vast ambitions on test and trace to things more targeted, such as workplace and school transmissions.  Germany has schools open despite the rising case count.  Germany has adopted a go-slow approach to the vaccine, in stark contrast to either project Warp Speed or the UK approach.  Germany in stark contrast to its northern neighbors or NY/NJ, has been very restrictive with its nursing homes and didn't order them to take COVID positive patients.  Germany has made an effective but non draconian use of quarantines for people returning from summer holidays.  All good stuff.  I'd be in favor.
> 
> But since they are doing in many respects less than we are (including a failure to travel ban Spain where a ton of Germans keep holiday homes), I don't think it's the government policies that are holding it off.  In fact, at this point, it's got to be either: cross immunity, cross vaccinations, genetics or seasonality.  Have they done better and at less cost?  Yes, and I like it.  But they haven't been able to hold off the virus since cases in Germany are now higher daily than in Sweden.  Indeed, I was reading a Spanish paper this morning which postulates the reason for the difference between the Spanish and Germans is that the Spanish have very extended friends and families and are very social and touchy feely while the Germans are much more distant and have smaller extended families--- it may be as simple as that.  But their curve is beginning to look a lot like Los Angeles'.  In the end I think they will do better than us, but the virus is going to virus so when we look back on it a year from now I don't think we'll be able to say they kicked our butts.  Time will tell....so far given what's happening in Scandinavia (where previously spared Norway and Denmark are now having issues), Sweden may have the last laugh.
> 
> ...


I wonder how much of Germany's response is less about what the rules are, and more about a willingness to follow rules. 

To read the forums in the US, a good 20% of people think they have a God-given right to ignore public health regulations.  We even had police chiefs refusing to enforce them, and holding press conferences to announce the fact. 

It is no wonder the rules dont work if people ignore them.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 11, 2020)

messy said:


> In a year from now Germany will have still kicked our butts. That’s already clear.
> And today Trump told us we’re “turning the corner” and “the cases are plunging.” He is a complete danger to our republic.


@Dominic please restrict him to OFFTOPIC. In his over 2,300 posts he has not contributed ONCE to a soccer discussion with anything related to the sport.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 11, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I wonder how much of Germany's response is less about what the rules are, and more about a willingness to follow rules.
> 
> To read the forums in the US, a good 20% of people think they have a God-given right to ignore public health regulations.  We even had police chiefs refusing to enforce them, and holding press conferences to announce the fact.
> 
> It is no wonder the rules dont work if people ignore them.


I think a lot has to do with location and other variables not related to gov edicts.

Based on the amount of positives CA should have many more deaths as an example. But yet for some reason the virus never took off. Really outside if the northeast, the virus has been far less deadly vs anywhere in the US.

And we see that same thing happen in other countries and even within regions of countries.

Go look at eastern europe. I don't think anyone will argue they have better healthcare or more efficient gov vs w europe, and yet their numbers are extremely low.

Many of those countries have lower numbers vs Germany. But I can tell you that when you travel to those places, it is obvious they are not as efficient/advanced/less corrupt, etc


----------



## chiefs (Sep 11, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> We were never in a position to beat it. Don't kid yourself.


perfectly said.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 11, 2020)

dad4 said:


> To read the forums in the US, a good 20% of people think they have a God-given right to ignore public health regulations.  We even had police chiefs refusing to enforce them, and holding press conferences to announce the fact.


I don't really think that's it.  Germans have had their own protest and party problems.  Part of the 20% of the US isn't complying with rules which Germany doesn't have in place because the US rules are much less reasonable (masks outside, youth sports).  Yes, I'd buy Germans are more compliance but if you say 20% of US isn't adhering, I'd put the German number at 10%....enough to help, not enough.  The most compelling explanation I think really is the Spanish one-- it's cultural: personal body space (Spaniards are practically hugging each other when socializing), family size, amount of socialization, and yes general social distance compliance









						Coronavirus: Germany weighs curbs on parties as infections rise | DW | 23.08.2020
					

Private parties have been blamed for fueling a rise in COVID-19 cases across Germany. While some states are calling for federal restrictions on such gatherings, those with lower rates of infection disagree.




					www.dw.com


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Sep 11, 2020)

pewpew said:


> I thought this thread was originally about an email from Blues.......


Ok, here’s my (mostly) accurate summary of how it went off the rails.

p. 1 to about p. 2.5 - I know something you don’t know about Blues, but I won’t tell you.

Aw, c’mon, tell me. You won’t tell?
You are wrong for that
You are wrong for bringing it up
You are wrong for not telling us as we have a pandemic
You got Blue’s Envy (implied)
MYOFB


p. 2.5 *** Initial tangent: 35% get myocarditis

Followed by corrections and comparisons to other diseases
p. 3.5 *** 2nd tangent: Monopoly in soccer is debated
p. 3.5 - 5 (Back to topic) Three people got it at Blues

BFD
You b1+ches overreacted, again
It’s good that Blues shared
Distance, mask, wash your hands, STFU
TLR
Blues Envy (stated)
It’s not an overreaction, you selfish SOB
You are gonna kill grandma (implied)

Distance, mask, wash your hands, STFU
If’s all fun until someone dies
…


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Sep 11, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Ok, here’s my (mostly) accurate summary of how it went off the rails.
> 
> p. 1 to about p. 2.5 - I know something you don’t know about Blues, but I won’t tell you.
> 
> ...


TLR --> TL : DR


----------



## Anon9 (Sep 11, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> @Dominic please restrict him to OFFTOPIC. In his over 2,300 posts he has not contributed ONCE to a soccer discussion with anything related to the sport.


That’s because he has no kids in youth soccer!! LOL


----------



## messy (Sep 11, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> That’s because he has no kids in youth soccer!! LOL


Except of course that I do. I’m actually on my 17th year as a club and DA soccer dad. So bad guess. Looking forward to LA opening up scrimmages...training in isolated boxes only goes so far. Kids are the last thought of politicians and maybe, these days, also scientists...


----------



## gotothebushes (Sep 12, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> That’s because he has no kids in youth soccer!! LOL


 You should be asleep! You have a big game in AZ don't you?


----------



## pewpew (Sep 12, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> @Dominic please restrict him to OFFTOPIC. In his over 2,300 posts he has not contributed ONCE to a soccer discussion with anything related to the sport.


And he's engaged others enough in Off Topic to know the "Ban Hammer" is a comin'....


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 12, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> I only care about my kid but I organize public events. Ok, Where is the logic in that? For your information, I’ve never organized any events. You assume I have. Man I can’t deal with you Marxist Neo Liberals. All you do is see things out of your left eye. Quit living in La La land


I just found out I have a third eye, WHO knew?  Anyway, when I look straight, I can see clearly.........


----------



## Anon9 (Sep 12, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> You should be asleep! You have a big game in AZ don't you?


No. I have 3 games this weekend, in Cali!


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 12, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> No. I have 3 games this weekend, in Cali!


Bro, please share where....lol!!!  I'm driving out to AZ right now to scout a team for upcoming SW ECNL.  I do private scouting reports for my goat to see what she's up against for this season.  I rented a house for a month in Gilbert and will fly my goat out on Thursday for the Cactus Kickoff!!!


----------



## Anon9 (Sep 12, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> Bro, please share where....lol!!!  I'm driving out to AZ right now to scout a team for upcoming SW ECNL.  I do private scouting reports for my goat to see what she's up against for this season.  I rented a house for a month in Gilbert and will fly my goat out on Thursday for the Cactus Kickoff!!!


Let me see........I’m thinking about it.............
How about NO!


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 12, 2020)

How to effectively scout your opposition, by Soccerhelper ((old EJ))
I have studied this great game now for over 10 years.  It all started on ESNP with, Living Liverpool.  I was attracted to soccer because my dd was balling hard when she was 6 and you could tell she loved it and was having so much fun.  I have taken notes from all the greats, like Tad and others. I know what's wrong with the men and why the men are not good right now.  However, my goat is a female, so I only care about the girls game. One thing you can;t control in soccer?  Luck!!!

Detail is king and where I come from, if you fail to plan, failure is what you get.  For example, during his time as José Mourinho’s Chief Opposition Scout, André Villas-Boas said the following about Mourinho's and his scouting expectations:* “Jose is obsessed with detail *– He will leave nothing to chance, even *if his team are playing the worst side in the league.*  My work enables Jose to know exactly when a player from the opposition is likely to be at his best or his weakest.”

Soccerhelper's first task as dad scout and dad coach, is to identify whether the opposition will tend to play direct ((Blues)) or indirect ((Surf, MLVA, Quakes, LAFC)).  Long passes per 90 is a very strong statistical category to analyse, as is a look at the distribution tendencies of the goalkeeper and centre-backs. If the side features a target forward or and less technical centre-backs, the odds of a more direct approach are likely.

This is valuable information and with hard work, a plan of attack and a little luck, your dd team might just win the U17 ECNL National Championship in 2021.  I want all of us in the ECNL to shoot for the stars and that can only be when you win it all.  Only one team wins it all but winning is trying to win   Happy Saturday folks.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 12, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> Bro, please share where....lol!!!  I'm driving out to AZ right now to scout a team for upcoming SW ECNL.  I do private scouting reports for my goat to see what she's up against for this season.  I rented a house for a month in Gilbert and will fly my goat out on Thursday for the Cactus Kickoff!!!


That's nothing.  We use drones with cloud penetrating radar to get footage of the opposing teams for U7.


----------



## Soccerhelper (Sep 12, 2020)

dad4 said:


> That's nothing.  We use drones with cloud penetrating radar to get footage of the opposing teams for U7.


Yikes, is that what I heard the other day at Great Park?  I was at da beach the other day and some clown was flying his drone over the beach.  Life Guard has his own air horn and tells those pervs to buzz off or the Sheriffs helicopter will come and shoot that thing out of the sky.  Mr Hassle Holf toward me he wish he has his own high powered b b gun and shot those things out of the air himself.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 12, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> Yikes, is that what I heard the other day at Great Park?  I was at da beach the other day and some clown was flying his drone over the beach.  Life Guard has his own air horn and tells those pervs to buzz off or the Sheriffs helicopter will come and shoot that thing out of the sky.  Mr Hassle Holf toward me he wish he has his own high powered b b gun and shot those things out of the air himself.


That's why we need the cloud penetrating radar.  Once they see your drone, it's all over.

MVLA has a soccer mom with a trained falcon who knocked three of our drones out of the air before we figured it out.  

I hear Top Hat rents time on a spy satellite to analyze formations.


----------



## gotothebushes (Sep 12, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> No. I have 3 games this weekend, in Cali!


Jesus! I love it! Good luck!


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 20, 2020)

Jose has returned said:


> regarding #1 the island  NZ did that and they  were great then someone came in and started it up.  Doing what they did only delays the inevitable if it was to flatten the curve like the professionals sold us on they did good but sooner or later they will have it. IMO





Kicker4Life said:


> You forgot, in your opinion.


Which country has the greatest number of deaths per 100,000  population?  That is probably the most important question. Is it a third world country, a country with extreme numbers living in poverty?  The country with the worst health care in the world?  No, the US leads the world with the most deaths.  Everyone can argue the whys and wherefores, but bottom line is the number of deaths.  A very sad commentary on our society and culture.


----------



## MacDre (Sep 20, 2020)

Blues is not the only team having an outbreak.  14 players on the Xolos first team and 16 on the coaching staff recently tested positive for COVID.


----------



## Luis Andres (Sep 21, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Which country has the greatest number of deaths per 100,000  population?  That is probably the most important question. Is it a third world country, a country with extreme numbers living in poverty?  The country with the worst health care in the world?  No, the US leads the world with the most deaths.  Everyone can argue the whys and wherefores, but bottom line is the number of deaths.  A very sad commentary on our society and culture.


sorry you are wrong. It’s not the USA. And when you consider the manipulated numbers of covid deaths by the Democratic states, the USA is still not the worst. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries


----------



## dad4 (Sep 21, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> sorry you are wrong. It’s not the USA. And when you consider the manipulated numbers of covid deaths by the Democratic states, the USA is still not the worst. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
> View attachment 9059


I’ve been wondering why South America has been hit so much harder than other places.   Five of the top ten in your list.  Recently, almost the whole continent has been having real trouble.  

Not sure I can get behind the political spin on the U.S. numbers, though.  Sure, we are doing better than French Guiana, but I’s kind of a sad day when we make that comparison.  Kind of like comparing ourselves to Trinidad & Tobago.


----------



## notintheface (Sep 21, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> sorry you are wrong. It’s not the USA. And when you consider the manipulated numbers of covid deaths by the Democratic states, the USA is still not the worst. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
> View attachment 9059


Uh, that ain't a great list of countries to be associated with, you know?


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 21, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Uh, that ain't a great list of countries to be associated with, you know?


racist


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 21, 2020)

Ive seen so many softball teams playing this weekend. It's time to open up soccer if they are allowing softball.  I heard high school sports will begin to practice this week in the Inland empire.   Ive also seen running teams practicing on the weekends.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 21, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Ive seen so many softball teams playing this weekend. It's time to open up soccer if they are allowing softball.  I heard high school sports will begin to practice this week in the Inland empire.   Ive also seen running teams practicing on the weekends.


Both running and softball are even lower risk than soccer.   They are reasonable things to add first.

 Not that I believe the state and counties took a look at risk and decided to allow baseball, softball, and xc.  But it would be better than what we have now.


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 21, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Ive seen so many softball teams playing this weekend. It's time to open up soccer if they are allowing softball.  I heard high school sports will begin to practice this week in the Inland empire.   Ive also seen running teams practicing on the weekends.


perfect time to make them run, finally!


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 21, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Both running and softball are even lower risk than soccer.   They are reasonable things to add first.


That's only true if they separate the kids into the bleachers.   Most of the ones I've seen have had the kids sitting in the dug out together.  If the dugout is roped off, they are sitting side by side with each other in the stands or grass.  Having the kids fixed and stationary next to other kids is bound to be more risky than having them on a field running around.  Plus the catcher in particular is in a high risk spot for transmission given the presence of both rotating batters and the umpire.

But I guess you don't care about the catchers. You just want to kill catchers.  J/K.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 21, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> That's only true if they separate the kids into the bleachers.   Most of the ones I've seen have had the kids sitting in the dug out together.  If the dugout is roped off, they are sitting side by side with each other in the stands or grass.  Having the kids fixed and stationary next to other kids is bound to be more risky than having them on a field running around.  Plus the catcher in particular is in a high risk spot for transmission given the presence of both rotating batters and the umpire.
> 
> But I guess you don't care about the catchers. You just want to kill catchers.  J/K.


You get the point.  Creating distance in baseball is a solvable problem.  Once you deal with the dugout, catcher, and umpire, you have almost no one close to anyone else.  Make some minor rules changes if we have to, and let the kids play.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 21, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You get the point.  Creating distance in baseball is a solvable problem.  Once you deal with the dugout, catcher, and umpire, you have almost no one close to anyone else.  Make some minor rules changes if we have to, and let the kids play.


To protect them from a virus that has about the same risk to them as the flu? Why? Under 24 has about zero risk. 

Let's not do safety theater when the actual threat to this group is non-existent


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 21, 2020)

I’m just curious why there don’t seem to be any big out-breaks from kids in Texas and AZ with all the close contact soccer participation?  Any thoughts???  Maybe I missed a news cycle...serious question though.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 21, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> I’m just curious why there don’t seem to be any big out-breaks from kids in Texas and AZ with all the close contact soccer participation?  Any thoughts???  Maybe I missed a news cycle...serious question though.


ECNL study was able to verify one case of on field transmission.  That’s all I’ve seen.

Some combination of 1- outdoor activity has a lower risk of transmission, 2- contact tracing is difficult, and 3- athletic kids are very likely to be asymptomatic.

Between those three, you won’t see much.  #1 says there is less to see. #2 and #3 say you often won’t see it even when it’s there.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 21, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You get the point.  Creating distance in baseball is a solvable problem.  Once you deal with the dugout, catcher, and umpire, you have almost no one close to anyone else.  Make some minor rules changes if we have to, and let the kids play.


Presumably those solutions exist already in that there are rules in place already regarding distancing on bleachers and many facilities have the dugout roped off.   But they aren't being honored.  It means you'd have to send monitors to softball games to ensure compliance, which is actually in practice a trickier issue than a soccer game (since most of the team is not seated at any one time).  This is an illustration of sometimes solutions being easier in the theorectical than in the actual practice.  For example, you could put it on umpires to certify to leagues the teams are spaced out but the referees (as in Massachusetts with soccer) won't be happy with that and many will just refuse to do it.

The Massachusetts distancing rules are hard enough to enforce until you get to the GK (which is where it falls apart unless you mandate everyone must shoot from outside the PA).    But even though it would be awful for the GK, soccer can be played with the GK just standing there to block shots like a foozball figure.  Removing the catcher from play is a trickier rules modification because someone has to go and pick up the ball when it's thrown.   Maybe have them pitch it into a bucket or something?  Or add dogs to the team and have them fetch?  Robots?


----------



## dad4 (Sep 21, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Presumably those solutions exist already in that there are rules in place already regarding distancing on bleachers and many facilities have the dugout roped off.   But they aren't being honored.  It means you'd have to send monitors to softball games to ensure compliance, which is actually in practice a trickier issue than a soccer game (since most of the team is not seated at any one time).  This is an illustration of sometimes solutions being easier in the theorectical than in the actual practice.  For example, you could put it on umpires to certify to leagues the teams are spaced out but the referees (as in Massachusetts with soccer) won't be happy with that and many will just refuse to do it.
> 
> The Massachusetts distancing rules are hard enough to enforce until you get to the GK (which is where it falls apart unless you mandate everyone must shoot from outside the PA).    But even though it would be awful for the GK, soccer can be played with the GK just standing there to block shots like a foozball figure.  Removing the catcher from play is a trickier rules modification because someone has to go and pick up the ball when it's thrown.   Maybe have them pitch it into a bucket or something?  Or add dogs to the team and have them fetch?  Robots?


That argument is at once both valid and ridiculous.  

We know people will refuse to actually enforce a reasonable set of rules, so we’re going to implement a completely unreasonable set of rules instead.

Of course, if people were actually capable of following rules, we wouldn’t be in this situation.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 21, 2020)

dad4 said:


> That argument is at once both valid and ridiculous.
> 
> We know people will refuse to actually enforce a reasonable set of rules, so we’re going to implement a completely unreasonable set of rules instead.
> 
> Of course, if people were actually capable of following rules, we wouldn’t be in this situation.


Often times the failure of policy experiments are due to policy makers assuming people are angels, instead of devils.  Communism would have worked perfectly if everyone was a saint.


----------



## Jose has returned (Sep 21, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> I’m just curious why there don’t seem to be any big out-breaks from kids in Texas and AZ with all the close contact soccer participation?  Any thoughts???  Maybe I missed a news cycle...serious question though.


because there aren't any....same with euros  the kids have been playing over there and going to school and nothing


----------



## Soccer Bum 06 (Sep 21, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> To protect them from a virus that has about the same risk to them as the flu? Why? Under 24 has about zero risk.
> 
> Let's not do safety theater when the actual threat to this group is non-existent


Agree. Don’t need to solve for a problem that doesn’t affect these kids.


----------



## Soccer Bum 06 (Sep 21, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> I’m just curious why there don’t seem to be any big out-breaks from kids in Texas and AZ with all the close contact soccer participation?  Any thoughts???  Maybe I missed a news cycle...serious question though.


Because there is no risk to these kids and the open states, data and science have already proved it.


----------



## Soccer Bum 06 (Sep 21, 2020)

dad4 said:


> That argument is at once both valid and ridiculous.
> 
> We know people will refuse to actually enforce a reasonable set of rules, so we’re going to implement a completely unreasonable set of rules instead.
> 
> Of course, if people were actually capable of following rules, we wouldn’t be in this situation.


Like the “rule” #1 that says a country “China” should report novel virus transmissions to WHO.


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 21, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> I’m just curious why there don’t seem to be any big out-breaks from kids in Texas and AZ with all the close contact soccer participation?  Any thoughts???  Maybe I missed a news cycle...serious question though.


First question, are all the soccer kids being texted on a regular basis?  Since most kids who get it are asymptomatic how would anyone know if the kids have it or have had it?  It is just a big unknown.  No conclusion can be made accurately without actual data and testing.


----------



## Luis Andres (Sep 21, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> First question, are all the soccer kids being texted on a regular basis?  Since most kids who get it are asymptomatic how would anyone know if the kids have it or have had it?  It is just a big unknown.  No conclusion can be made accurately without actual data and testing.


That’s a good point. I would bet that some
kids definitely have it and most are asymptomatic. But the chances of them getting it at practice are slim. You need to have that 15 minute close contact. Most kids that get it are getting from other asymptomatic  kids at home. When they have play dates and sleep overs. They then infect their parents. People get covid at home, rarely in public.


----------



## BIGD (Sep 21, 2020)

Jose has returned said:


> because there aren't any....same with euros  the kids have been playing over there and going to school and nothing


Well Europe doesn’t look too good right now in terms of Covid.


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## Woobie06 (Sep 21, 2020)

Pretty much everyone answered the question...shit leadership in CA.  People get fired in real life for poor performance like this...these people get re-elected. Make sure you vote, and again in 2022 or we just get more of the same in this state. Is this what people really want?  Very sad situation for this great state.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 21, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Pretty much everyone answered the question...shit leadership in CA.  People get fired in real life for poor performance like this...these people get re-elected. Make sure you vote, and again in 2022 or we just get more of the same in this state. Is this what people really want?  Very sad situation for this great state.


^ 100%


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## Grace T. (Sep 21, 2020)

BIGD said:


> Well Europe doesn’t look too good right now in terms of Covid.


Schools aren't the primary drivers in Europe. There's been stories of cases here and there but they are sporadic, particularly when it comes to the elementary schoolers.  If we are going to be science and data driven, there's just no disputing that fact at this point.


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## thelonggame (Sep 22, 2020)

Jose has returned said:


> because there aren't any....same with euros  the kids have been playing over there and going to school and nothing


Right. The stock market tanked yesterday, one of the reasons was fears of further lockdowns in Europe due to higher virus cases. Maybe read the headlines before you post stuff.


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## espola (Sep 22, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Pretty much everyone answered the question...shit leadership in CA.  People get fired in real life for poor performance like this...these people get re-elected. Make sure you vote, and again in 2022 or we just get more of the same in this state. Is this what people really want?  Very sad situation for this great state.


What is the question that pretty much everyone has answered?  

(Just trying to keep up with the discussion)


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 22, 2020)

Sure, I’ll bite...I know we are in different camps regarding this....I’ve got the answers our family needs to make decisions for our group. 

I feel our State Leadership has been irresponsible and has nothing to do with Soccer.  Yes, the Rona will kill at-risk people, same with many other diseases, etc...we do not stop the world for those.  Every day there are reports of issues with data, poor reporting, etc, etc...yet we are told to follow bad data and trust the science (aka our State Government).  OK...you really trust what is marketed/messages by the media?  You trust California’s updates, and you believe Newsome is doing a good job?  Seriously?

It’s time to get our State back open, Economy on track, kids in real school, and people back to work (if you want to stay home, shelter, and quarantine...fine...do it..your decision).  People are getting fed-up and are starting to accept the risk and live their lives.  Things are starting to get more loose, people are tired of the politicalization of the issue and people have had it...here is some data for you...94+% of the deaths from the Rona are 55 and older...People under 55 have a higher chance of dying from an accident - Car, Home, etc. than from the Rona...Did you know that?  Stop driving people, don’t clean your gutters, or perform household projects...it’s dangerous out there.

It’s literally more deadly and dangerous to drive a car than to die of the Corona Virus for the 55 and younger group.

Edited...forgot to add those driving with masks and gloves are taking the extra super special safety precautions.  Thumbs up!


----------



## Jose has returned (Sep 22, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Right. The stock market tanked yesterday, one of the reasons was fears of further lockdowns in Europe due to higher virus cases. Maybe read the headlines before you post stuff.


do you even watch the stock market ?  its been doing that since march.  maybe know what you are talking about before posting anything


----------



## Jose has returned (Sep 22, 2020)

BIGD said:


> Well Europe doesn’t look too good right now in terms of Covid.


wait just last week they were the model and how great they handled it and the US had the worst response.....times a changing i guess.  kids are still in school and kids playing sports


----------



## espola (Sep 22, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Sure, I’ll bite...I know we are in different camps regarding this....I’ve got the answers our family needs to make decisions for our group.
> 
> I feel our State Leadership has been irresponsible and has nothing to do with Soccer.  Yes, the Rona will kill at-risk people, same with many other diseases, etc...we do not stop the world for those.  Every day there are reports of issues with data, poor reporting, etc, etc...yet we are told to follow bad data and trust the science (aka our State Government).  OK...you really trust what is marketed/messages by the media?  You trust California’s updates, and you believe Newsome is doing a good job?  Seriously?
> 
> ...


Wishful thinking.


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 22, 2020)

espola said:


> Wishful thinking.


no...not at all.


----------



## crush (Sep 22, 2020)

espola said:


> Wishful thinking.


All one has sometimes is a wish.  Make your wish come true


----------



## EOTL (Sep 22, 2020)

Jose has returned said:


> do you even watch the stock market ?  its been doing that since march.  maybe know what you are talking about before posting anything


Got any stock market tips Mr. Expert?


----------



## EOTL (Sep 22, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Sure, I’ll bite...I know we are in different camps regarding this....I’ve got the answers our family needs to make decisions for our group.
> 
> I feel our State Leadership has been irresponsible and has nothing to do with Soccer.  Yes, the Rona will kill at-risk people, same with many other diseases, etc...we do not stop the world for those.  Every day there are reports of issues with data, poor reporting, etc, etc...yet we are told to follow bad data and trust the science (aka our State Government).  OK...you really trust what is marketed/messages by the media?  You trust California’s updates, and you believe Newsome is doing a good job?  Seriously?
> 
> ...


The only real way to know exactly how many bones you’ll break jumping off a four story building is to do it. And since the science can’t figure out the exact number with 100% certainty in advance, you should just assume you’ll be fine. So irresponsible of the media to suggest that it’s almost certainly gonna hurt. What do they know?

Of course, even if you don’t survive, @MSK357 will just claim you would have lived but for your heartburn or other “comorbidity” and encourage others to keep jumping.


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> The only real way to know exactly how many bones you’ll break jumping off a four story building is to do it. And since the science can’t figure out the exact number with 100% certainty in advance, you should just assume you’ll be fine. So irresponsible of the media to suggest that it’s almost certainly gonna hurt. What do they know?
> 
> Of course, even if you don’t survive, @MSK357 will just claim you would have lived but for your heartburn or other “comorbidity” and encourage others to keep jumping.


Big difference between jumping off a building and driving.  Data suggests more likely to die from an accident than Corona under 55...

The media on both sides can be very irresponsible at times and tilt the story to their networks position. Listen, research other sources and make your own conclusions. I trust the media on objective events such as natural disasters....I don’t trust the media on subjective narratives.

Your analogy for bone breaking is the same for  this Virus...we all know there is a degree of risk jumping off a building or getting inside six feet of somebody and not wearing a mask.  I’d argue that the risk of injury or death is higher with the building jump, than letting you kid play soccer, watching a game, or going outside without a mask or getting inside 6 ft of someone.  You risk is extremely low if you don’t jump or hide under a rock.

Not hearing a lot about infection clusters due to kids sports...what does the science say about that.  At some point you need to use some common sense and trust what you see and observe, not just what somebody on TV, wearing make-up, a tie, and reading off a teleprompter tells you...and I’m not talking about our country’s Democratic Presidential Candidate.

Btw...nothing is 100% or absolute except that at some point we will all die from something.  If you are waiting for an “all clear” you’ll be under that rock forever.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 22, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Sure, I’ll bite...I know we are in different camps regarding this....I’ve got the answers our family needs to make decisions for our group.
> 
> I feel our State Leadership has been irresponsible and has nothing to do with Soccer.  Yes, the Rona will kill at-risk people, same with many other diseases, etc...we do not stop the world for those.  Every day there are reports of issues with data, poor reporting, etc, etc...yet we are told to follow bad data and trust the science (aka our State Government).  OK...you really trust what is marketed/messages by the media?  You trust California’s updates, and you believe Newsome is doing a good job?  Seriously?
> 
> ...


My kids hate online school. I'm sure most kids hate it. If your school opens up with whatever precautions, what is the next step when there are confirmed Covid cases in your kids school or in their class?


----------



## dad4 (Sep 22, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> My kids hate online school. I'm sure most kids hate it. If your school opens up with whatever precautions, what is the next step when there are confirmed Covid cases in your kids school or in their class?


3 kids, 3 schools for me.

ES/MS is stable cohort.  A cohort is sent home for 2 weeks for each positive test.  Other cohorts are not sent home.

HS is planning on normal schedule, 4 days in person, 6 days remote.  No clear policy on who stays home when someone tests positive.

JC is totally remote, plus cross fingers and hope for in person classes next term.


----------



## EOTL (Sep 22, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> My kids hate online school. I'm sure most kids hate it. If your school opens up with whatever precautions, what is the next step when there are confirmed Covid cases in your kids school or in their class?


The next step is to deny they got it at school. And deny they gave it to their parents, friends, grandparents, family with comorbidities, their soccer coach, their teachers, their classmates who then gave it to all of their parents, grandparents, friends and family with comorbidities, their soccer coach, their teachers, etc.

You see, everything is fine as long as you deny why this keeps spreading, the legitimacy of the scientists who are explaining it and the media that reports what the scientists are saying, your role in causing it to spread, even the fact that people are dying from it in the first place. Damn heartburn, the silent killer.

Herman Cain Award recipient of the week (posthumous of course): Tony Tenpenny.


----------



## notintheface (Sep 22, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Big difference between jumping off a building and driving.  Data suggests more likely to die from an accident than Corona under 55...


Serious question. How many more people are you willing to have die from this thing? Not looking for a long, drawn out explanation of "oh everyone's going to get it sooner or later" or "we'll lose more people from mental health issues" or "smoking kills more people than 9/11" or whatever. Just looking for a number. Another 100k? Another 200k? 500k? 1m? Just respond with a number of people you're willing to have die from the virus.


----------



## Jose has returned (Sep 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Got any stock market tips Mr. Expert?


you finally got out of big mouth jail and you start with the holier than everyone.  it shouldn't be too long before you get dropped again


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Serious question. How many more people are you willing to have die from this thing? Not looking for a long, drawn out explanation of "oh everyone's going to get it sooner or later" or "we'll lose more people from mental health issues" or "smoking kills more people than 9/11" or whatever. Just looking for a number. Another 100k? Another 200k? 500k? 1m? Just respond with a number of people you're willing to have die from the virus.


a. You assume we have any control over the numbers.  Short of rushing a vaccine and teatments and an Australian style suspension of civil liberties (and one that will continue until such vaccine and treatments can reach at least 80% of the population) there's not much you can do about it.  At this point all government efforts short of Australia or communist regime lockdowns  or being an island (which isn't possible for us) have failed to contain the thing.  So the only thing we can do is try and minimize numbers.  And no one is advocating dragging out old people from the nursing homes and throwing keggers for them.  Even Sweden had limitations...we just disagree on what's "reasonable".
b. You can't just look at benefit (i.e., lives saved),  You also have to weigh the costs.  The costs include economics, lives lost due to lockdown, harm on children. We could save lives from car crashes too if we drop the speed limit to 20 miles per hour everywhere and require foam bumpers on cars.  So the correct question that you should be asking is if a particular policy can save X lives (knowing that the policy isn't going to get mortality from COVID down to zero) are you willing to do y knowing it will cost z.  Math hard.


----------



## notintheface (Sep 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> So the only thing we can do is try and minimize numbers.  And no one is advocating dragging out old people from the nursing homes and throwing keggers for them.  Even Sweden had limitations...we just disagree on what's "reasonable".
> b. You can't just look at benefit (i.e., lives saved),  You also have to weigh the costs.


Okay, so what's the number of people you're willing to have die from the virus?


----------



## EOTL (Sep 22, 2020)

[


Grace T. said:


> a. You assume we have any control over the numbers.  Short of rushing a vaccine and teatments and an Australian style suspension of civil liberties (and one that will continue until such vaccine and treatments can reach at least 80% of the population) there's not much you can do about it.  At this point all government efforts short of Australia or communist regime lockdowns  or being an island (which isn't possible for us) have failed to contain the thing.  So the only thing we can do is try and minimize numbers.  And no one is advocating dragging out old people from the nursing homes and throwing keggers for them.  Even Sweden had limitations...we just disagree on what's "reasonable".
> b. You can't just look at benefit (i.e., lives saved),  You also have to weigh the costs.  The costs include economics, lives lost due to lockdown, harm on children. We could save lives from car crashes too if we drop the speed limit to 20 miles per hour everywhere and require foam bumpers on cars.  So the correct question that you should be asking is if a particular policy can save X lives (knowing that the policy isn't going to get mortality from COVID down to zero) are you willing to do y knowing it will cost z.  Math hard.


That is exactly the question he is asking. How many dead people (X) are too many to justify your selfish little soccer trip to Utah (Y1), in person school (Y2) and whatever the f**k else you want (Y3+).  You can avoid answering all you want, but your doing so says everything we need to know. There is no amount of dead people that will ever be too many for you.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Okay, so what's the number of people you're willing to have die from the virus?


Seriously, it's like explaining to my sixth grader why his algebra problem set is wrong even though he thinks he got the right answer.

a. "willing"...you are assuming control we don't have.  If you compare results from Peru (harsh lockdowns, mask mandates) and Brazil (President who blew it off and went nearly full Sweden plus higher population density than Peru), Peru did worse on the 3 metrics: cases per thousand, hospitalizations and deaths.
b. The answer isn't x.  X doesn't mean anything.  X is nonsensical. It only shows, like my 6th grader, you don't understand the problem.  A policy is analyzed by x= lives saves where y was the particular policy applied and z is the cost.  The question is whether x<z when y is applied.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> [
> 
> 
> That is exactly the question he is asking. How many dead people (X) are too many to justify your selfish little soccer trip to Utah (Y1), in person school (Y2) and whatever the f**k else you want (Y3+).  You can avoid answering all you want, but your doing so says everything we need to know. There is no amount of dead people that will ever be too many for you.


Lovely to have you back....can't wait til the other 2 get out of prison to join us.  You all add so much to the conversation.  To answer the question you'd have to outline the exact parameters of the policy in place and define y.  Only then can I tell if you I feel x<z.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> The next step is to deny they got it at school. And deny they gave it to their parents, friends, grandparents, family with comorbidities, their soccer coach, their teachers, their classmates who then gave it to all of their parents, grandparents, friends and family with comorbidities, their soccer coach, their teachers, etc.
> 
> You see, everything is fine as long as you deny why this keeps spreading, the legitimacy of the scientists who are explaining it and the media that reports what the scientists are saying, your role in causing it to spread, even the fact that people are dying from it in the first place. Damn heartburn, the silent killer.
> 
> Herman Cain Award recipient of the week (posthumous of course): Tony Tenpenny.


Herman Cain award. Ha, who is he? He doesn't exist. Tenpenny's wife says on social media he has a big realization to unload, when he's able to breathe without a venilator at 100% (currently at 50%).


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 22, 2020)

dad4 said:


> 3 kids, 3 schools for me.
> 
> ES/MS is stable cohort.  A cohort is sent home for 2 weeks for each positive test.  Other cohorts are not sent home.
> 
> ...


Great feedback.


----------



## espola (Sep 22, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Okay, so what's the number of people you're willing to have die from the virus?


I  heard 15 a while back, and 12,000 from another participant.

Totally by coincidence, this morning I was sorting out a box of mementos my mother sent me years ago.  Included in that was an envelope from a government office with a few leftover sugar rationiing coupons in my name.  It hadn't occurred to me that food rationing was still a thing when I was born in 1947, but I had the little government issued documents in my hands to prove it.  Why is that relevant?  During WW2, everyone participated because everyone recognized the war was a threat to everyone.  No one claimed special privileges just because they didn't feel right doing it.

My message to all those resistors out there - Grow up!


----------



## crush (Sep 22, 2020)

Warning to all new and old posters


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## EOTL (Sep 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Lovely to have you back....can't wait til the other 2 get out of prison to join us.  You all add so much to the conversation.  To answer the question you'd have to outline the exact parameters of the policy in place and define y.  Only then can I tell if you I feel x<z.


Outline your parameters as you see fit. You’re the one trying to turn the value of human life into a math equation - which it is not by the way - but let’s see your formula. How many people need to die before you admit that traveling interstate to play a child’s game, in person school and all your other nonsense was the wrong move? Otherwise, your nonsense that it’s a secret formula but you won’t tell us is just a load o’ crap.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Outline your parameters as you see fit. You’re the one trying to turn the value of human life into a math equation - which it is not by the way - but let’s see your formula. How many people need to die before you admit that traveling interstate to play a child’s game, in person school and all your other nonsense was the wrong move? Otherwise, your nonsense that it’s a secret formula but you won’t tell us is just a load o’ crap.


O.k.  Prohibiting my family going to Utah.  Kid and I are likely COVID positive.  Older was more isolated there than here.  Lives saved likely 0.  Cost would be having a small kid go cukoo for cocopuffs and run suicidal.  Totally worth it plus the added side effect of him having soccer and the older having a pool.  On the other side would have to add the older hated it for that very reason of being more isolated which is definitely a reduction in the x as well.


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 22, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Serious question. How many more people are you willing to have die from this thing? Not looking for a long, drawn out explanation of "oh everyone's going to get it sooner or later" or "we'll lose more people from mental health issues" or "smoking kills more people than 9/11" or whatever. Just looking for a number. Another 100k? Another 200k? 500k? 1m? Just respond with a number of people you're willing to have die from the virus.


I don’t want anybody to die.  If ask you the same question for heart disease, obesity, cancer, etc...how many more people are you willing to let die?  Where is the outrage over processed food, fast food, toxic ingredients, etc....smoking causes cancer.  They are cancer sticks...why in the world do we sell them?  The hypocrisy is endless.  We don’t live in a bubble where Corona is the only thing to worry about.

I have no idea how many Rona will get...just like I have no idea how reliable the data reported is.  Millions will die over time from the Flu Virus...Cancer, accidents and other causes.  None of these things go away, MERS and SARS still exist and are both Corona Viruses.  We all assume the risk that these things are out there and people live their lives. 

All I’m saying is that if you are 55 and younger, in good health you have a very, very low death rate...and depending on your source, and data set you rely on, for this group the probability of death is in the Flu ballpark.

Nobody is denying Rona is contagious, and deadly for certain demographics.  All I’m saying is my demographic is more likely to die by accident than by Corona Virus.  Based on Data and Statistics that are publicly available.  I’m fine assuming that risk, you may not be.  That’s fine, we all have our own risk principles.  What I don’t like is having my risk principles determined by people with political agendas.

I mean...c’mon you can peacefully protest, riot, loot, and vandalize property...that’s ok...no risk there...right?  Hypocrites for days....

There are better ways to protect those at risk than shutting down the world.  This began with faulty data and death models, experts doubled down, data models faulty, more bad data, numbers off, double down again because these experts are “right”, and here we are.  It’s like a lie gone out of control...too far down a path to admit you are wrong and pivot.

I’m waiting for my ban, but this is a Covid Email thread so who knows...


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Outline your parameters as you see fit. You’re the one trying to turn the value of human life into a math equation - which it is not by the way - but let’s see your formula. How many people need to die before you admit that traveling interstate to play a child’s game, in person school and all your other nonsense was the wrong move? Otherwise, your nonsense that it’s a secret formula but you won’t tell us is just a load o’ crap.


How is your Ivory Tower these days? Lonely I’m sure, but you’ve got to be used to that by now.


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 22, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> There are better ways to protect those at risk than shutting down the world.  This began with faulty data and death models, experts doubled down, data models faulty, more bad data, numbers off, double down again because these experts are “right”, and here we are.  It’s like a lie gone out of control...too far down a path to admit you are wrong and pivot.


Could you imagine Fauci, Cuomo, Newsome, and others saying...our bad...we didn’t need to lock down like this, shouldn’t have sent elderly back to homes, etc..burn our economy,  spend trillions of $$$ in stimulus, create record unemployment...could you imagine if they said we made a couple mistakes, we were wrong, we should have done things differently, your committed to this decision...no walking it back, not getting that toothpaste back in the tube.  Political suicide.


----------



## Willie (Sep 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Outline your parameters as you see fit. You’re the one trying to turn the value of human life into a math equation - which it is not by the way - but let’s see your formula. How many people need to die before you admit that traveling interstate to play a child’s game, in person school and all your other nonsense was the wrong move? Otherwise, your nonsense that it’s a secret formula but you won’t tell us is just a load o’ crap.


EOTL,
I missed you sweetie.   Welcome back.
XOXO


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> The only real way to know exactly how many bones you’ll break jumping off a four story building is to do it. And since the science can’t figure out the exact number with 100% certainty in advance, you should just assume you’ll be fine. So irresponsible of the media to suggest that it’s almost certainly gonna hurt. What do they know?
> 
> Of course, even if you don’t survive, @MSK357 will just claim you would have lived but for your heartburn or other “comorbidity” and encourage others to keep jumping.


Nope.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 22, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Could you imagine Fauci, Cuomo, Newsome, and others saying...our bad...we didn’t need to lock down like this, shouldn’t have sent elderly back to homes, etc..burn our economy,  spend trillions of $$$ in stimulus, create record unemployment...could you imagine if they said we made a couple mistakes, we were wrong, we should have done things differently, your committed to this decision...no walking it back, not getting that toothpaste back in the tube.  Political suicide.


How many other things do you deny? The holocaust? Sandy Hook never happened?


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 22, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> My kids hate online school. I'm sure most kids hate it. If your school opens up with whatever precautions, what is the next step when there are confirmed Covid cases in your kids school or in their class?


LOL my kids love it!  They aren't sure they ever want to go back.


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 22, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> How many other things do you deny? The holocaust? Sandy Hook never happened?


Let me be CLEAR...I’m not denying anything, I’m interpreting data, give it a try.  I DO NOT believe Sandy Hook was fake, or 9/11, or in other conspiracy theories...except maybe JFK cause it intrigues me.

I don’t believe in the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Sasquatch (although I have seen some hairy dudes in locker rooms in High School and College that made me wonder)...

I do believe in Santa Clause because in our house if you don’t believe you don’t receive.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 22, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Let me be CLEAR...I’m not denying anything, I’m interpreting data, give it a try.  I DO NOT believe Sandy Hook was fake, or 9/11, or in other conspiracy theories...except maybe JFK cause it intrigues me.
> 
> I don’t believe in the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Sasquatch (although I have seen some hairy dudes in locker rooms in High School and College that made me wonder)...
> 
> I do believe in Santa Clause because in our house if you don’t believe you don’t receive.


OK, you don't deny anything. Principals around the country want to know the question you didn't answer. When someone gets Covid in your kids school or class, what happens next? You're saying that schools should re-open. When that happens and the virus shows up in your kids class, what do you do? That is the main reason that we can't return to normal. Since you are an expert at reading data, how should we react? Up to this point, there is no national plan and and leadership has given up on fighting it, as a result of this we're all on our own. Please show us the way.


----------



## chiefs (Sep 22, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> OK, you don't deny anything. Principals around the country want to know the question you didn't answer. When someone gets Covid in your kids school or class, what happens next? You're saying that schools should re-open. When that happens and the virus shows up in your kids class, what do you do? That is the main reason that we can't return to normal. Since you are an expert at reading data, how should we react? Up to this point, there is no national plan and and leadership has given up on fighting it, as a result of this we're all on our own. Please show us the way.


What do you do when the annual flu comes around, which stats show it’s much worse for kids then COVID?  SDSU has had over 1000 kids diagnosed with COVID; Zero hospitalizations; all recovered.  Open up all sports and schools.  Simple.


----------



## notintheface (Sep 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Seriously, it's like explaining to my sixth grader why his algebra problem set is wrong even though he thinks he got the right answer.
> 
> a. "willing"...you are assuming control we don't have.  If you compare results from Peru (harsh lockdowns, mask mandates) and Brazil (President who blew it off and went nearly full Sweden plus higher population density than Peru), Peru did worse on the 3 metrics: cases per thousand, hospitalizations and deaths.
> b. The answer isn't x.  X doesn't mean anything.  X is nonsensical. It only shows, like my 6th grader, you don't understand the problem.  A policy is analyzed by x= lives saves where y was the particular policy applied and z is the cost.  The question is whether x<z when y is applied.


Just give a number. Any number. Don't be afraid. I don't care about any relationship between X Y Z alpha beta whatever. Just give me X. How many people are you willing to have die of the virus?


----------



## notintheface (Sep 22, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> I don’t want anybody to die.  If ask you the same question for heart disease, obesity, cancer, etc...how many more people are you willing to let die?  Where is the outrage over processed food, fast food, toxic ingredients, etc....smoking causes cancer.  They are cancer sticks...why in the world do we sell them?  The hypocrisy is endless.  We don’t live in a bubble where Corona is the only thing to worry about.


So your answer is zero. You're willing to have zero people die of the virus. Fair?

By "opening up everything!!!!111!!!!1" that number will not be zero and everyone knows it. So what's your real number?


----------



## EOTL (Sep 22, 2020)

Willie said:


> EOTL,
> I missed you sweetie.   Welcome back.
> XOXO


Thx Outlaw. When do you get to use your real name again?


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 22, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> OK, you don't deny anything. Principals around the country want to know the question you didn't





notintheface said:


> So your answer is zero. You're willing to have zero people die of the virus. Fair?
> 
> By "opening up everything!!!!111!!!!1" that number will not be zero and everyone knows it. So what's your real number?


Lighten up Francis!  I can literally see you typing with a mask and gloves on. 

I’ll get back to you later...I’m busy right now.


----------



## notintheface (Sep 22, 2020)

Just so I'm not hypocritical here: my number is 300k. Another 300k people are going to die of this virus before it's under control, and that's with the current restrictions that we're all living under. The moving average of daily deaths from Covid, with our current restrictions, runs at about 800 people per day. Multiply that by a year and you're at 300k. If we open things up, that number goes up, plain as day. I'm not willing to sacrifice more than 300k more people.


----------



## chiefs (Sep 22, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> LOL my kids love it!  They aren't sure they ever want to go back.


Of course, the apple doesn’t fall from the fear tree.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 22, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Just so I'm not hypocritical here: my number is 300k. Another 300k people are going to die of this virus before it's under control, and that's with the current restrictions that we're all living under. The moving average of daily deaths from Covid, with our current restrictions, runs at about 800 people per day. Multiply that by a year and you're at 300k. If we open things up, that number goes up, plain as day. I'm not willing to sacrifice more than 300k more people.


Interesting number.....


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 22, 2020)

chiefs said:


> What do you do when the annual flu comes around, which stats show it’s much worse for kids then COVID?  SDSU has had over 1000 kids diagnosed with COVID; Zero hospitalizations; all recovered.  Open up all sports and schools.  Simple.


Dude, are you actually going there? In what way is this not denial? We already know how dangerous the virus is, it's on tape how dangerous it was despite what were told. That is a fact that you can't dispute. Another fact you can't dispute is that there was hospitalizations at SDSU. This is a public health emergency, I'm not saying some of the stuff you're saying isn't true, not everyone dies of it, but we already know it's way worse than the flu and it spreads and that kills people and we as a country have given up on fighting it, so if we just get pissed and say "open it up", it's a hollow statement without considering what happens if we do that. Also, of all those kids that got it, how many suffered through it and are still dealing with the long term affects of it? That's not reported. Does that matter to you?


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 22, 2020)

12 days old....









						Tracking the Coronavirus at U.S. Colleges and Universities (Published 2021)
					

College campuses, like the rest of the country, are enduring a coronavirus surge.



					www.nytimes.com
				




88k cases...60 deaths, most in the spring, and most were school employees, not students per the article. That’s a very, low rate if you do simple math. Kids doing stupid things, being kids, parties, gatherings etc. Not minimizing this. Just pointing it out.

I don’t think anybody denies it is contagious and deadly for some.  As far as school goes for K-12...If your kid gets it...numbers say they will most likely be fine.  I can tell you it has been the healthiest our family has been during this time.  Parents are not sending sick kids to school spreading stuff around, and they should implement similar health protocols, temp checks going forward even after the Covid subsides in both schools and work places.

I certainly would not want you making health choices and decisions for my family.  I’m sure you feel the same.  We asses risk and the situation differently.  I respect your perspective, just don’t agree with it.  Good luck.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Just give a number. Any number. Don't be afraid. I don't care about any relationship between X Y Z alpha beta whatever. Just give me X. How many people are you willing to have die of the virus?


At this point I really think you are my son trolling me because I gave him a hard time about algebra.  I keep telling him something doesn't make sense and he keeps insisting that it does.  If that's you, you have a practice test you are supposed to finish for tomorrow, so what are doing on the internets?


----------



## NorCalDad (Sep 22, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Parents are not sending sick kids to school spreading stuff around, and they should implement similar health protocols, temp checks going forward even after the Covid subsides in both schools and work places.


I wouldn't be so sure about that:









						A Massachusetts teenager tested positive for COVID-19. His parents sent him to school anyway.
					

Six students tested positive for COVID-19 days before Attleboro High School reopened its doors for the first day of school this week. Only five of them stayed home, the city’s […]



					www.boston.com
				




I'm pretty sure @Grace T. pointed this out at some point somewhere that the incentives are bit whacky right now. 

I still don't get why we're not focusing on outdoor activities first.  I mean I get it...capitalism and all.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Just so I'm not hypocritical here: my number is 300k. Another 300k people are going to die of this virus before it's under control, and that's with the current restrictions that we're all living under. The moving average of daily deaths from Covid, with our current restrictions, runs at about 800 people per day. Multiply that by a year and you're at 300k. If we open things up, that number goes up, plain as day. I'm not willing to sacrifice more than 300k more people.


If that's your number then assuming we have a bad mutation or a bad winter and the thing accelerates notwithstanding the controls you want (e.g., see Peru), you'd be willing to engage in Australian style lockdowns damn the cost or rush out an untested vaccine to avoid hitting your number at al costs.  Those include: suspension of the Constitution, a hard shut of the border even to citizens (which in our case likely means the deployment of the military and a shoot on sight order), restrictions on press and speech including violent suppression of all forms of protest, forced testing, severe lockdowns, forced separations from families, ankle monitors on confirmed positives, shutdown of interstate travel and the deployment of the military to assist keeping order.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> I still don't get why we're not focusing on outdoor activities first.  I mean I get it...capitalism and all.


Nail salons are open and Disneyland will be open before schools in many counties and outdoor soccer.


----------



## NorCalDad (Sep 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Nail salons are open and Disneyland will be open before schools in many counties and outdoor soccer.


Yup.  I guess Anaheim losing $100M in tax revenue is a pretty big deal.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> If that's your number then assuming we have a bad mutation or a bad winter and the thing accelerates notwithstanding the controls you want (e.g., see Peru), you'd be willing to engage in Australian style lockdowns damn the cost or rush out an untested vaccine to avoid hitting your number at al costs.  Those include: suspension of the Constitution, a hard shut of the border even to citizens (which in our case likely means the deployment of the military and a shoot on sight order), restrictions on press and speech including violent suppression of all forms of protest, forced testing, severe lockdowns, forced separations from families, ankle monitors on confirmed positives, shutdown of interstate travel and the deployment of the military to assist keeping order.


We could do all that.

Or, we could simply enforce the existing public health orders against indoor gatherings.  With fines, not prison camps.

I know it's easy to say that jackbooted thugs are the only option.  But it isn't true.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

dad4 said:


> We could do all that.
> 
> Or, we could simply enforce the existing public health orders against indoor gatherings.  With fines, not prison camps.
> 
> I know it's easy to say that jackbooted thugs are the only option.  But it isn't true.


It is if you are wedded to a fixed number, because short of Australia nothing else has worked in the world.  If you are on team mitigate (which both you and I seem to be, even if we disagree on the scope of the mitigation steps and what works), then you are doing a cost benefit analysis for every intervention in the hopes of reducing things on the margins, knowing if you compare Peru and Brazil it may not be enough to do anything.

The hypothetical I bring up all the time.....masks (y).  There's split scientific evidence over whether they work but there's been no study definitively showing they do anything with coronavirus.  Masks have failed to bend any of the curves anywhere (though arguably they may have stopped them from peaking too high in certain areas of the world).  There's no correlation between how well places have done and mask orders.  There's a split of scientific consensus on them.  Much like my position on HDQ, I say use em, but only indoors and make exceptions for the very young and ideally give everyone really good masks.  Why?  The cost (z) is  (some minimal intrusiveness, cost of manufacturing in the scheme of things is small if there is some benefit however minimal, so long as we aren't kicking off screaming babies from AirCanada flights or tormenting Downs or autistic people), the benefit (x) is unknown but there's some evidence there may be some, particularly indoors particularly if we use good masks....enough to overcome the cost at least indoors not out....what's the harm at least until it's proven definitively otherwise that they really have no benefit whatsoever.  But also everyone wear a mask for 4, 8 12 weeks and the virus will be gone is not a realistic policy and not one worth aiming at particularly at the cost of young children and the severely handicapped.

The other question is how far you willing to go to enforce your no indoor gatherings?  10 years in prison, 1 year, $100,000 fine, $1000 fine, turn off power, deploy the military to forcefully disperse?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 22, 2020)

Riverside County wants to open up everything.  There's a vote coming up either this week or next to decide if they are going to scrap the Governor's guidelines and just open up.   It's going to be an interesting winter in SoCal.


----------



## NorCalDad (Sep 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The hypothetical I bring up all the time.....masks (y).  There's split scientific evidence over whether they work but there's been no study definitively showing they do anything with coronavirus.


Where is that split in science? Everything I've read seems to be pretty conclusive about it:



			https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.nanolett.0c02211


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> Where is that split in science? Everything I've read seems to be pretty conclusive about it:
> 
> 
> 
> https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.nanolett.0c02211



It's out there.  Thread is derailed enough without making it a mask debate.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> It is if you are wedded to a fixed number, because short of Australia nothing else has worked in the world.  If you are on team mitigate (which both you and I seem to be, even if we disagree on the scope of the mitigation steps and what works), then you are doing a cost benefit analysis for every intervention in the hopes of reducing things on the margins, knowing if you compare Peru and Brazil it may not be enough to do anything.
> 
> The hypothetical I bring up all the time.....masks (y).  There's split scientific evidence over whether they work but there's been no study definitively showing they do anything with coronavirus.  Masks have failed to bend any of the curves anywhere (though arguably they may have stopped them from peaking too high in certain areas of the world).  There's no correlation between how well places have done and mask orders.  There's a split of scientific consensus on them.  Much like my position on HDQ, I say use em, but only indoors and make exceptions for the very young and ideally give everyone really good masks.  Why?  The cost (z) is  (some minimal intrusiveness, cost of manufacturing in the scheme of things is small if there is some benefit however minimal, so long as we aren't kicking off screaming babies from AirCanada flights or tormenting Downs or autistic people), the benefit (x) is unknown but there's some evidence there may be some, particularly indoors particularly if we use good masks....enough to overcome the cost at least indoors not out....what's the harm at least until it's proven definitively otherwise that they really have no benefit whatsoever.  But also everyone wear a mask for 4, 8 12 weeks and the virus will be gone is not a realistic policy and not one worth aiming at particularly at the cost of young children and the severely handicapped.
> 
> The other question is how far you willing to go to enforce your no indoor gatherings?  10 years in prison, 1 year, $100,000 fine, $1000 fine, turn off power, deploy the military to forcefully disperse?


Who said anything about 10 years in prison?   Violations of public health orders seems more like a speeding ticket to me.

The insane exaggerations just makes it hard to take you seriously.   Kind of like your persistent mask-doubting position that seems stuck in late March.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Who said anything about 10 years in prison?   Violations of public health orders seems more like a speeding ticket to me.
> 
> The insane exaggerations just makes it hard to take you seriously.   Kind of like your persistent mask-doubting position that seems stuck in late March.


Well if you are going to slap them on the wrist at this point it won't do anything to deter people considering an ever increasing amount of people are joining team reality and taking the red pill.  They don't do anything to slow people on the freeways either.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Sep 22, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Btw...nothing is 100% or absolute except that at some point we will all die from something.  If you are waiting for an “all clear” you’ll be under that rock forever.


EOTL? Under a rock? Forever? I'm in.


----------



## espola (Sep 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> It's out there.  Thread is derailed enough without making it a mask debate.


There is no debate outside your head.  Masks work.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

espola said:


> There is no debate outside your head.  Masks work.


Nonsense.


----------



## notintheface (Sep 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> At this point I really think you are my son trolling me because I gave him a hard time about algebra.  I keep telling him something doesn't make sense and he keeps insisting that it does.  If that's you, you have a practice test you are supposed to finish for tomorrow, so what are doing on the internets?


I don't understand why you are afraid to say the number of people you are okay with dying in order to open up the economy. This is not a hard question.


----------



## NorCalDad (Sep 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> It's out there.  Thread is derailed enough without making it a mask debate.


Agreed.  It's just that everything I've seen has been debunked pseudoscience that's akin to anti-vaxxer rhetoric.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

notintheface said:


> I don't understand why you are afraid to say the number of people you are okay with dying in order to open up the economy.


Exactly.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> Agreed.  It's just that everything I've seen has been debunked pseudoscience that's akin to anti-vaxxer rhetoric.


Next time I come across the thread I'll PM it to you.  Basically it amounts to there being no evidence besides statistical and observational studies that both sides can marshall because its impossible and unethical right now to do a controlled study on the issue.


----------



## notintheface (Sep 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Exactly.


No, seriously. Is it one person? Is it two? Is it two million? I mean, it can be a max of 350 million, so you have a finite number of choices. Why are you afraid of saying a number?


----------



## dad4 (Sep 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Well if you are going to slap them on the wrist at this point it won't do anything to deter people considering an ever increasing amount of people are joining team reality and taking the red pill.  They don't do anything to slow people on the freeways either.


Speeding tickets work.  You have no idea how fast we'd drive without them.

The pill analogy is still insulting, by the way.  Similar to how the left uses "woke".   Either phrase implies that anyone who disagrees with you must not be a conscious and sentient creature.  

Why not just use Plato's cave, and suggest that we all should be dragged into the light?   Then we can argue about who sees reality and who is seeing only shadows on the wall.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 22, 2020)

dad4 said:


> The pill analogy is still insulting, by the way.  Similar to how the left uses "woke".   Either phrase implies that anyone who disagrees with you must not be a conscious and sentient creature.


Practically no one in SoCal drives the speed limit.  I tend to drive 5-10 miles over it and I'm practically a slowpoke on the lanes.  The threat of a ticket doesn't do very much.  What does hold down people from driving 80 is that they'll be charged wih reckless driving which isn't a ticketing offense...drive fast enough and you go to jail.  It's not the ticket which is dissuading people.

The analogy doesn't really apply to you.  You've shown yourself to be a thoughtful person even if we disagree but we tend to disagree more on the margins and reasons for doing things than in the actual approach.  The blue pillers are the ones still under the illusion they can control the thing (as opposed to just mitigating it), irrespective of the costs.  It also drives them nuts when you point that out because they don't want to see it and will do anything possible for psychological reasons to avoid looking at it.


----------



## EOTL (Sep 22, 2020)

notintheface said:


> No, seriously. Is it one person? Is it two? Is it two million? I mean, it can be a max of 350 million, so you have a finite number of choices. Why are you afraid of saying a number?


IKR?  She says it’s basic math, yet she can’t do it.


----------



## dad4 (Sep 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Practically no one in SoCal drives the speed limit.  I tend to drive 5-10 miles over it and I'm practically a slowpoke on the lanes.  The threat of a ticket doesn't do very much.  What does hold down people from driving 80 is that they'll be charged wih reckless driving which isn't a ticketing offense...drive fast enough and you go to jail.  It's not the ticket which is dissuading people.
> 
> The analogy doesn't really apply to you.  You've shown yourself to be a thoughtful person even if we disagree but we tend to disagree more on the margins and reasons for doing things than in the actual approach.  The blue pillers are the ones still under the illusion they can control the thing (as opposed to just mitigating it), irrespective of the costs.  It also drives them nuts when you point that out because they don't want to see it and will do anything possible for psychological reasons to avoid looking at it.


Must be that I'm one of those Berkeley hippies.  Cant risk the fuzz pulling me and Zonker over: they might find my stash.   The tiny little engine on the microbus won't get up to 80 mph anyway.


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 22, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> I wouldn't be so sure about that:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair enough...you can’t fix stupid.


----------



## socalkdg (Sep 22, 2020)

notintheface said:


> I don't understand why you are afraid to say the number of people you are okay with dying in order to open up the economy. This is not a hard question.


Zero if possible.   But it isn't.  But you would also have to consider how many deaths occur because the economy isn't open.   What would be a good number for you?





__





						COVID-related hunger could kill more people than the virus | UN Global Compact
					






					unglobalcompact.org
				












						12,000 people could die each day from hunger linked to COVID-19
					

Mass unemployment, disruption to food production and supplies, and declining aid are behind the growing hunger numbers.




					www.oxfamamerica.org
				












						U.N. Warns Number Of People Starving To Death Could Double Amid Pandemic
					

Some 700 million of the world's most vulnerable people will require food assistance, according to the U.N. humanitarian office, which is asking wealthy nations to commit $90 billion in aid.




					www.npr.org


----------



## NorCalDad (Sep 22, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Zero if possible.   But it isn't.  But you would also have to consider how many deaths occur because the economy isn't open.   What would be a good number for you?


That's probably more of argument for continued stimulus initiatives vs opening up the economy. I think there are other issues that could make a stronger argument.


----------



## paytoplay (Sep 23, 2020)

notintheface said:


> No, seriously. Is it one person? Is it two? Is it two million? I mean, it can be a max of 350 million, so you have a finite number of choices. Why are you afraid of saying a number?


Not afraid, just does not compute. This is the pro-life crowd, after all.


----------



## espola (Sep 23, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Next time I come across the thread I'll PM it to you.  Basically it amounts to there being no evidence besides statistical and observational studies that both sides can marshall because its impossible and unethical right now to do a controlled study on the issue.


Nonsense.


----------



## espola (Sep 23, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Nonsense.


Prove me wrong.


----------



## espola (Sep 23, 2020)

EOTL said:


> IKR?  She says it’s basic math, yet she can’t do it.


Science is hard.  It requires years of education, then more years of hard work, sometimes with expensive equipment (some of which the scientist must invent as needed), all subject to review and criticism by others who legitimately understand what you are doing.

Denial, on the other hand, only requires a pen (or, nowadays, a keyboard).


----------



## paytoplay (Sep 23, 2020)

espola said:


> Science is hard.  It requires years of education, then more years of hard work, sometimes with expensive equipment (some of which the scientist must invent as needed), all subject to review and criticism by others who legitimately understand what you are doing.
> 
> Denial, on the other hand, only requires a pen (or, nowadays, a keyboard).


Cmon, science?! Yeah right! Maybe all the top scientists are saying wear a mask, but we know COVID affects “virtually nobody.”


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 23, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Cmon, science?! Yeah right! Maybe all the top scientists are saying wear a mask, but we know COVID affects “virtually nobody.”


1. They didn’t in the past. They specifically said not to
2. There are still health officers in countries including the hard hit Low Countries that disagree. It’s a minority position but they are out there. Some including in the us reverse under political pressure because: a. The cost of the policy is minimal so why not if it might help and b. The politicians are under tremendous pressure to “do something”. It’s not science it’s politics
3. Even they can’t seem to wear them properly with health officers around the world being caught more than dozens of time wearing them improperly or removing them.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 23, 2020)

X


----------



## paytoplay (Sep 23, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> 1. They didn’t in the past. They specifically said not to
> 2. There are still health officers in countries including the hard hit Low Countries that disagree. It’s a minority position but they are out there. Some including in the us reverse under political pressure because: a. The cost of the policy is minimal so why not if it might help and b. The politicians are under tremendous pressure to “do something”. It’s not science it’s politics
> 3. Even they can’t seem to wear them properly with health officers around the world being caught more than dozens of time wearing them improperly or removing them.


Sorry, that’s some real conspiratorial BS kook talk. So, what you’re saying is if Fauci is caught taking the mask off at a game—gotcha!—it negates the scientific consensus?! Maybe there’s a connection now for why we saw Asian citizens routinely wearing masks in recent years and why their populations have been comparatively unscathed by the virus.


----------



## NorCalDad (Sep 23, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> 1. They didn’t in the past. They specifically said not to


To be fair, Fauci said this because he didn't want hoarding of PPEs/n95 masks for HCWs. I think his approach of reducing panic was apropos.

The science is pretty conclusive. There is absolute efficacy with n95 masks. Perhaps less impactful with other materials, but still worth wearing. Do they create complete barriers? No, but they slow the virus down. Do they have any meaningful impact outdoors?, probably not. 

It's unfortunate that federal leadership has made wearing a mask political.


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 23, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> To be fair, Fauci said this because he didn't want hoarding of PPEs/n95 masks for HCWs. I think his approach of reducing panic was apropos.
> 
> The science is pretty conclusive. There is absolute efficacy with n95 masks. Perhaps less impactful with other materials, but still worth wearing. Do they create complete barriers? No, but they slow the virus down. Do they have any meaningful impact outdoors?, probably not.
> 
> It's unfortunate that federal leadership has made wearing a mask political.


wow, so Fauci intentionally lied to the public putting people at risk of dying of COVID?  When all he had to do was tell people to wear a scarf around their face like he did months later?  seems like a pretty crappy expert that our leaders are expecting sound advice from.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 23, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Sorry, that’s some real conspiratorial BS kook talk. So, what you’re saying is if Fauci is caught taking the mask off at a game—gotcha!—it negates the scientific consensus?! Maybe there’s a connection now for why we saw Asian citizens routinely wearing masks in recent years and why their populations have been comparatively unscathed by the virus.


Unscathed?  The Phillipines has had one of the longest mask mandates yet was unable to contain its outbreaks.  Japan was unable to avoid its spike.  South Korea has had to use other measures because masks weren't enough.  And Peru had a mask mandate yet had almost identical (slightly worse) results than Brazil.  Now, you can argue that masks (particularly the N95s) might reduce those spikes...but there's no proof of that either way on a macro level.  Here's my ultimate take on them, resulting from the behavior of the "experts" on the things.  Masks may help if they are used in the ideal.  But most cases of trasmission are in the home (where no one is going to use a mask properly all the time including in their sleep) or in institutional settings.  The experts can't wear them all the time ideally, less so the public, which is why we don't have a huge impact.  On top of that there's the recent airplane study showing that despite distancing and despite mask wearing transmission is occuring on airplanes, in business class.  Could you argue yes that's because people sleep or eat?....of course but that's what happens in the home too.  Could you argue they reduce the spread?  Yup, think you ae probably right and they probably also reduce the viral loads.  But they aren't the magic bullet people make it out to be.

What happened in Ventura County is illustrative.  The health officer opposed a mask order.  He said the science didn't support it, particularly the bandanas, scarfs and homemade masks which have now been shown to be of much less utility.  He came under pressure from the supervisors to do "something" particularly as other counties adopted mask orders.  He shifted to a recommended instructions.  But then he caved when the governor's state wide order occurred.  Science!

As I've said if I were in charge I'd do a limited mask order for indoors and on public transport, I'd roll out a mask program and say bandanas and others like it are not enough, and I'd exempt children 10 and under and the severely disabled.


----------



## NorCalDad (Sep 23, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> wow, so Fauci intentionally lied to the public putting people at risk of dying of COVID?  When all he had to do was tell people to wear a scarf around their face like he did months later?  seems like a pretty crappy expert that our leaders are expecting sound advice from.


At the time there was no science around the efficacy of "scarfs" and coronavirus. Plus, can you see how that would play out? Oh, you don't need N95 masks, scarfs should just work out fine. You think that wouldn't still trigger panic/hoarding? 

Hoarding was already happening regardless:









						A Hoarder’s Huge Stockpile of Masks and Gloves Will Now Go to Doctors and Nurses, F.B.I. Says (Published 2020)
					

The stockpile, slated for medical personnel in New York and New Jersey, includes 192,000 N95 respirators, 130,000 surgical masks and nearly 600,000 medical-grade gloves, the authorities said.




					www.nytimes.com
				




Fauci's primary concern was HCWs.


----------



## espola (Sep 23, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> To be fair, Fauci said this because he didn't want hoarding of PPEs/n95 masks for HCWs. I think his approach of reducing panic was apropos.
> 
> The science is pretty conclusive. There is absolute efficacy with n95 masks. Perhaps less impactful with other materials, but still worth wearing. Do they create complete barriers? No, but they slow the virus down. Do they have any meaningful impact outdoors?, probably not.
> 
> It's unfortunate that federal leadership has made wearing a mask political.


I noticed a lot of the background crowd behind t last night were wearing masks with MAGA printed on them.


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 23, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> At the time there was no science around the efficacy of "scarfs" and coronavirus. Plus, can you see how that would play out? Oh, you don't need N95 masks, scarfs should just work out fine. You think that wouldn't still trigger panic/hoarding?
> 
> Hoarding was already happening regardless:
> 
> ...


you just said the reason Fauci told the public that they didnt need masks was because he didnt want people hoarding PPE/mask for HCWs.  That means he intentionally deceived americans to protect HCWs.  Covering your mouth when you have a cough or someone else is coughing around you is common sense. so to say there was no science around the efficacy of any sort of face covering is stupid.  I say that as a person that thinks this whole situation is blown way out of proportion.  

The bottom line is despite what trump says in public, He has always sided with his experts in terms of actions, i.e. restricting flights from countries hit hard by the virus, starting a coronavirus taskforce in january while mainstream media/pelosi/deblasio were saying it was safe, etc. its up to local governments to set any mitigations to protect their state.  Its ridiculous if you think South Dakota needs the same restrictions that California has, so setting something at the federal level would be wrong.


----------



## watfly (Sep 23, 2020)

What is your number of acceptable deaths with Covid?  The emotional false choice when you can only see thing through the eyes of Covid.

In California, a study showed that 55% of the excess deaths during a two month period of the pandemic are from other causes other than Covid. In Texas 64% of excess deaths are non-Covid. Nationwide the estimate is 65% Covid 35% non-Covid although 14 states had a higher percentage of non-Covid deaths.  Mental health, lack of treatment, starvation and even still births are just a few of the negative impacts.  The deaths from these causes due to the lockdowns are not only happening now, but will continue in the long term, far outlasting the virus.  So it wouldn't be surprising to see non-Covid deaths from the lockdown surpass deaths with Covid.  

Should we ignore Covid and rip the band-aid off? No, we should still protect the vulnerable without exposing the entire population to the non-Covid risks which are far greater than the Covid risks.  We've flattened the Covid curve, know its time to flatten the non-Covid curve.









						Excess Deaths From COVID-19 and Other Causes, March-April 2020
					

This study uses data from the National Center for Health Statistics to estimate excess deaths (ie, the difference between observed and expected deaths) in the US and the District of Columbia in the early weeks of the COVID-19 pandemic.




					jamanetwork.com
				












						impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on suicide rates
					

Summary. Multiple lines of evidence indicate that the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has profound psychological and social effects. The psychologi




					academic.oup.com
				








__





						Pandemic’s effect on already rising suicide rates heightens worry - Roll Call
					

Economic and social pressures this year have heightened the risks, feeding consternation among experts, health officials and lawmakers.




					www.rollcall.com
				












						What is behind the increase of non-Covid related deaths? | The Spectator
					

The latest data on weekly deaths in England and Wales, published today by the Office of National Statistics, show what could be the beginning of a disturbing trend. From mid-June to mid-July, the number of excess deaths has been running at below the five-year average. But for the second week...




					www.spectator.co.uk
				












						Stillbirth rate rises dramatically during pandemic
					

Researchers stress need for antenatal care, as emerging data link disrupted pregnancy services to increase in stillbirths.




					www.nature.com
				




Please bring on the critique of these links, because other than the emotional argument, that's all you got.


----------



## NorCalDad (Sep 23, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> The bottom line is despite what trump says in public, He has always sided with his experts in terms of actions, i.e. restricting flights from countries hit hard by the virus, starting a coronavirus taskforce in january while mainstream media/pelosi/deblasio were saying it was safe, etc. its up to local governments to set any mitigations to protect their state.  Its ridiculous if you think South Dakota needs the same restrictions that California has, so setting something at the federal level would be wrong.


So, I'm an American before I'm part of any political party.  I get the vibe here that you care more about protecting the actions of a specific political party versus understanding if masks work or not.  I don't care what political party you're from, but to give federal leadership a pass on its mistakes is about as un-American as it gets.  There's absolutely a distinction between how our President presented the situation versus Fauci.  This is simply undeniable.  I say the same thing about actions taken by some Democratic leaders.  There have been some significant missteps from the entire political ideological spectrum.  Our politicians are accountable to us, all of them.  The sooner we all realize this and get out of this partisan BS, the sooner we can have real positive impact on everyone's lives.  Or, I guess, we could all go back and watch some Wally George re-runs.


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 23, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> So, I'm an American before I'm part of any political party.  I get the vibe here that you care more about protecting the actions of a specific political party versus understanding if masks work or not.  I don't care what political party you're from, but to give federal leadership a pass on its mistakes is about as un-American as it gets.  There's absolutely a distinction between how our President presented the situation versus Fauci.  This is simply undeniable.  I say the same thing about actions taken by some Democratic leaders.  There have been some significant missteps from the entire political ideological spectrum.  Our politicians are accountable to us, all of them.  The sooner we all realize this and get out of this partisan BS, the sooner we can have real positive impact on everyone's lives.  Or, I guess, we could all go back and watch some Wally George re-runs.


If you were expecting scientific/medical expertise from any politician that isnt a scientist or doctor i think that says more about you then anyone else.  I expect our leading epidemiologist advising our president to tell the truth, or at the very least protect americans.  He did neither by tricking the public into not buying masks.  Like i said before, covering your mouth with anything is better than nothing is the latest reasoning we got for wearing scarves or DIY cloth masks.  He could have said that from the beginning. Anybody with common sense already knows covering your mouth helps to stop spread any germs or virus.  I dont know which political party Fauci is, but his poor advice is why there is little trust in the handling of the virus. Fauci was the one that said masks dont work, then said only N95 masks work, then said scarves were good enough.  Any President in any party getting advice from that "expert" would look like a fool.


----------



## socalkdg (Sep 23, 2020)

Four people carpooling,  no masks, all become infected from one other person, one person dies.

Four people having a discussion about the setup of the mfg of a part, inside, all have masks on, one person gets it.  No one dies.

Outside party, 40-50 people spread out,  mostly masked, but once alcohol flows some stop wearing.  No one gets it.

Four weeks of practice with 14 girls, no mask once they start practicing, decent distancing.   No cases.


These are all my personal experiences.   No mask and inside is a disaster.   Mask inside but in close proximity, helps but not perfect.   Outside with mask great, without mask but some distance, great.  

Try not to play the blame game.  People are fallible, they make mistakes.  Learn from them.   Look at actions more than words.  Understand science isn't exact.   Oh, and all politicians suck.


----------



## crush (Sep 23, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> So, I'm an American before I'm part of any political party.  I get the vibe here that you care more about protecting the actions of a specific political party versus understanding if masks work or not.  I don't care what political party you're from, but to give federal leadership a pass on its mistakes is about as un-American as it gets.  There's absolutely a distinction between how our President presented the situation versus Fauci.  This is simply undeniable.  I say the same thing about actions taken by some Democratic leaders.  There have been some significant missteps from the entire political ideological spectrum.  Our politicians are accountable to us, all of them.  The sooner we all realize this and get out of this partisan BS, the sooner we can have real positive impact on everyone's lives.  Or, I guess, we could all go back and watch some Wally George re-runs.


Wally Wally Wally!!!  Channel 56 in OC baby.  I watched that guy late at night and he was a funny and weird dude and his studio audience was full of young crazy ass teenagers from the OC!!!  Talk about Hot Seat with Wally!!!


----------



## crush (Sep 23, 2020)




----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 23, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> Where is that split in science? Everything I've read seems to be pretty conclusive about it:
> 
> 
> 
> https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.nanolett.0c02211


That study is not conclusive by the way.

As they point out:

"The testing here did not account for real-world scenarios where the leakage around the edges of the face cover may significantly impact the actual effectiveness of these coverings."

They assume perfectly fitted masks with no leakages.

"We reiterate that these filtration efficiencies are only applicable if there is no leakage in the seals of the masks, as loose-fitting devices such as these coverings and medical masks do not have any gasket or tight-fitting mechanism to ensure a proper seal."

In other words the study has no bearing on the masks everyone is wearing. They point out most people (professionals) cant even get their masks on right.

Further

"The general public should be aware of the risks of self-contamination during removal and reuse of cloth face coverings."

So no the study has no bearing on masks we are using and how the general public uses them.


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 23, 2020)

crush said:


>


EJ, did you change your screen name again?  You gotta send a memo...


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 23, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> EJ, did you change your screen name again?  You gotta send a memo...


And after he promised not to and said Dom should delete his other accounts.


----------



## crush (Sep 23, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> EJ, did you change your screen name again?  You gotta send a memo...


Where have you been?  Go to Cactus Kickoff for update on new avatar.  I learned I was doing third person too much and that pissed some dads off so I'm just going to go with Crush the dad from Orange County, who is on his last year and half before his kid goes to college.  Footy gave me the idea and my wife said, "100%."  Not trying to deceive anyone or trick anyone like some do on here.


----------



## crush (Sep 23, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> And after he promised not to and said Dom should delete his other accounts.


I never talk to myself and tell myself how great my take was either.  I told Dom to delete all other avatar names.  No more third person Grace.  It's the real me I promise and I see where I made myself look odd at the minimum.  I will do better with my promises and look to stay in my lane, which is soccer.  I have a crush on soccer and I don't know why.  Stay safe and I truly do pray for your boys and you


----------



## notintheface (Sep 23, 2020)

watfly said:


> Please bring on the critique of these links, because other than the emotional argument, that's all you got.


From your very first link:



> "Between March 1, 2020, and April 25, 2020, a total of 505 059 deaths were reported in the US; 87 001 (95% CI, 86 578-87 423) were excess deaths, of which 56 246 (65%) were attributed to COVID-19. In 14 states, more than 50% of excess deaths were attributed to underlying causes other than COVID-19; these included California (55% of excess deaths) and Texas (64% of excess deaths) (Table). The 5 states with the most COVID-19 deaths experienced large proportional increases in deaths due to nonrespiratory underlying causes, including diabetes (96%), heart diseases (89%), Alzheimer disease (64%), and cerebrovascular diseases (35%) (Figure). New York City experienced the largest increases in nonrespiratory deaths, notably those due to heart disease (398%) and diabetes (356%)."


Let's say, hypothetically, that we "open everything up". Now you're dealing with an excess of Covid related deaths, but now you still aren't going to shrink those heart disease and diabetes numbers as much as you want because _the public perception is that it isn't safe to go to the hospital and opening things up doesn't necessarily change that._ People who need to get checked out for blood pressure etc aren't going to their doctors right now and likely won't until we get the virus under control.

That's the key-- if you get the virus under control, with no community spread, then fantastic, I will be first in line to go see Tenet in a theater, I will be first in line to reschedule my dentist appointment, I will be first in line to do all of those things that we've missed over the past six months. But we know that the virus is still out there, we know it's still a risk-- even if the risk to me is small-- and we know there's still no guaranteed therepeutics or vaccine coming soon. That alone should be enough to slow down the "open it up!!!!1!!!" crew.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 23, 2020)

notintheface said:


> From your very first link:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You won't go to the dentist for a year, possibly a year and a half (unless presumably you have to by cracking a tooth or a cavity or some other unfortunate event)?  And presumably once people start to get vaccinated, the dentists will be full then for a while with old people coming out from their residences?  I've been in and out of the hospital for tests the last several weeks....I'll admit its somewhat nerve wracking...but to not go to the dentist for over a year because you are afraid of the thing seems a bit much.  Granted, don't know you....you might be in a high risk category so would make sense....my folks aren't going to the dentist either.


----------



## watfly (Sep 23, 2020)

notintheface said:


> From your very first link:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again emotional appeal, with no factual basis.  And again please don't mischaracterize what I'm saying.  I'm not proposing an all or nothing approach to Covid, I'm proposing a targeted approach.  Plus its not public perception that its not safe to go to hospitals.  That's your fear that your are trying to project on to everyone else.  Plus you can't fix stupid, if you're avoiding medical treatment because you're afraid of Covid, then you're stupid.


----------



## notintheface (Sep 23, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Zero if possible.   But it isn't.  But you would also have to consider how many deaths occur because the economy isn't open.   What would be a good number for you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These three links confer a link between "opening the economy" (eg having a job) and being able to eat. We have the means to get the money to people for food in such a way that doesn't require a bartender with asthma to put her life on the line. Let's try that first.


----------



## NorCalDad (Sep 23, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> As they point out:
> 
> "The testing here did not account for real-world scenarios where the leakage around the edges of the face cover may significantly impact the actual effectiveness of these coverings."


Right, but nowhere do they say that filtration efficiency goes to zero as a result.

There is more though:



			https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext


----------



## notintheface (Sep 23, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> You won't go to the dentist for a year, possibly a year and a half (unless presumably you have to by cracking a tooth or a cavity or some other unfortunate event)?  And presumably once people start to get vaccinated, the dentists will be full then for a while with old people coming out from their residences?  I've been in and out of the hospital for tests the last several weeks....I'll admit its somewhat nerve wracking...but to not go to the dentist for over a year because you are afraid of the thing seems a bit much.  Granted, don't know you....you might be in a high risk category so would make sense....my folks aren't going to the dentist either.


You just cherrypicked the exact wrong thing from my post-- my point is that for the people who are dying of heart disease, diabetes, etc, the perception -- like you just wrote -- is that going to the clinic for tests is risky. That risk doesn't go away until we get ahold of the virus. "Open everything up!!!" does nothing to get community spread under control, therefore people will continue to die of heart attacks etc when they shouldn't until we're past the virus.


----------



## notintheface (Sep 23, 2020)

watfly said:


> Plus its not public perception that its not safe to go to hospitals.  That's your fear that your are trying to project on to everyone else.





			
				Grace T. said:
			
		

> I've been in and out of the hospital for tests the last several weeks....I'll admit its somewhat nerve wracking...


Look, I truly do believe that Grace T is a little more -- let's say "adventurous" -- than your average person. Do you really believe that there aren't people postponing routine checkups because of this?


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 23, 2020)

notintheface said:


> You just cherrypicked the exact wrong thing from my post-- my point is that for the people who are dying of heart disease, diabetes, etc, the perception -- like you just wrote -- is that going to the clinic for tests is risky. That risk doesn't go away until we get ahold of the virus. "Open everything up!!!" does nothing to get community spread under control, therefore people will continue to die of heart attacks etc when they shouldn't until we're past the virus.


Well, if your point is that there's fear, cool....agree.  But that fear is largely irrational, particularly for the under 50 set, real if exaggerated for the 50-65 set.   If you are under 65 and healthy, I get why you'd be nervous, but not going to the dentist for a year and a half and then taking a slot an old person might very well need when they come out of hiding isn't great either.


----------



## notintheface (Sep 23, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Well, if your point is that there's fear, cool....agree.  But that fear is largely irrational, particularly for the under 50 set, real if exaggerated for the 50-65 set.   If you are under 65 and healthy, I get why you'd be nervous, but not going to the dentist for a year and a half and then taking a slot an old person might very well need when they come out of hiding isn't great either.


I 100% agree that the risk may be low and for people under 50 the odds are slim. 100% agree. It is the uncertainty that is causing people to be gun shy. Headlines of a 28-year-old nurse dying of Covid are justifiably giving people the jitters. Maybe this is like Shark Week, who knows, but I absolutely believe that until we have proven out that community spread is nearly gone, we shouldn't even be having the argument.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 23, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Look, I truly do believe that Grace T is a little more -- let's say "adventurous" -- than your average person. Do you really believe that there aren't people postponing routine checkups because of this?


Yes there are people postponing.  If it's a routine checkup hey I'd postpone.  But if it's something you need to do, the question is whether its rational

I had to reschedule my son's dentist visit because it conflicted with the after-school program on campus.  I keep having to reschedule their appointments by they either conflict with my own or their school schedules right now are so wonky.  I couldn't get an appointment for a month.  I asked the receptionist if people were avoiding checkups.  She said the older groups definitely are but otherwise they are busy and couldn't get in me sooner.  

If you are fit and healthy and aren't old, do an old person a favor and go get your dental work done.


----------



## espola (Sep 23, 2020)

watfly said:


> What is your number of acceptable deaths with Covid?  The emotional false choice when you can only see thing through the eyes of Covid.
> 
> In California, a study showed that 55% of the excess deaths during a two month period of the pandemic are from other causes other than Covid. In Texas 64% of excess deaths are non-Covid. Nationwide the estimate is 65% Covid 35% non-Covid although 14 states had a higher percentage of non-Covid deaths.  Mental health, lack of treatment, starvation and even still births are just a few of the negative impacts.  The deaths from these causes due to the lockdowns are not only happening now, but will continue in the long term, far outlasting the virus.  So it wouldn't be surprising to see non-Covid deaths from the lockdown surpass deaths with Covid.
> 
> ...


Before I respond, let me ask how you came across this esoteric collection - some light reading in your spare time?


----------



## espola (Sep 23, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Look, I truly do believe that Grace T is a little more -- let's say "adventurous" -- than your average person. Do you really believe that there aren't people postponing routine checkups because of this?


It looks to me like she is hoping for justification for what she fears others will see as an unwise act.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 23, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Headlines of a 28-year-old nurse dying of Covid are justifiably giving people the jitters.


Um no they don't justify it. That is fact free emotional jitters. The data plainly says otherwise.

Lets go to the CDC and see what their latest IFR (infection fatality rate) is and see if a 28yr old dying should give anyone the jitters.

IFR
*0-19 yrs of age*. 0.003% chance of dying. Or put another way. *A survival rate of 99.997%*
_So lets stop running around pretending our kids are at risk at school, the beach, playing sports, etc._

*20-49 yrs of age*. 0.02% chance of dying. Or put another way. *A survival rate of 99.98%

50-69 yrs of age. *0.5% chance of dying. Or put another way.* A survival rate of 99.5%*
In this age group the difference is towards the older end of this age range. How do we know that? Because various states show the age breakdowns in smaller segments.

*70+ yrs of age. *5.4% chance of dying. Or put another way.* A survival rate of 94.6%*
This is your at risk population. And we know a substantial percentage of people in this age group who have died are in nursing homes, etc. 

The data says only a small percentage of the population has any real risk. Our kids don't have any risk. Nor does college age kids. And yet many pretend they do. 

Here is the CDC link where you can see the exact same numbers as I just posted. 








						Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
					

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.




					www.cdc.gov


----------



## watfly (Sep 23, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Look, I truly do believe that Grace T is a little more -- let's say "adventurous" -- than your average person. Do you really believe that there aren't people postponing routine checkups because of this?


I can't really add too much more to Grace T's response, other to say that yes I'm sure there are people out there that have postponed checkups or even treatment by their own choice (the 1st couple months many hospitals were postponing "non-elective", although very serious treatments, like chemotherapy.)  Again that's the danger of overreacting to Covid and is caused directly by fear mongering.  It makes no sense to avoid treatment for a condition you actually have, in fear of a virus you have a low percentage of getting (particularly if your following proper protocols).  That seems to be the very definition of irrational fear.


----------



## watfly (Sep 23, 2020)

espola said:


> It looks to me like she is hoping for justification for what she fears others will see as an unwise act.


I'm guessing GraceT doesn't give a shit about trying to justify her medical treatment to a bunch of us knuckleheads.

(Sorry for rapid fire posting, but I'm eating lunch and this is entertaining).


----------



## paytoplay (Sep 23, 2020)

crush said:


> Wally Wally Wally!!!  Channel 56 in OC baby.  I watched that guy late at night and he was a funny and weird dude and his studio audience was full of young crazy ass teenagers from the OC!!!  Talk about Hot Seat with Wally!!!


You know what Crush? You are OUT OF HERE!!


----------



## espola (Sep 23, 2020)

watfly said:


> I'm guessing GraceT doesn't give a shit about trying to justify her medical treatment to a bunch of us knuckleheads.
> 
> (Sorry for rapid fire posting, but I'm eating lunch and this is entertaining).


Medical treatment?  I was referring to her out-of-state trips so her kids could evade the California shutdown.  Or do I have the wrong person here?


----------



## espola (Sep 23, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> You know what Crush? You are OUT OF HERE!!


I added him to the ignore pile after reading the first sentence.


----------



## watfly (Sep 23, 2020)

espola said:


> Medical treatment?  I was referring to her out-of-state trips so her kids could evade the California shutdown.  Or do I have the wrong person here?


My bad.  Please insert "out of state travel" where I said "medical treatment".


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 23, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> 12 days old....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Since this response yesterday I have been told by a few people that they have Covid. One is a colleague who was scared to even tell me he may have been exposed and worried he had infected others. Other infected were players on my daughter's soccer team. So, your response is timely. You absolutely have the right to assess risk differently than me. You have the right to send a letter to any government official telling them they're wrong or go on a bulletin board and tell everyone how you live, that there are guidelines out there but you're not following them and that your family is doing great and you believe in Santa Claus. You also have the right to complain about wearing a seatbelt, obeying traffic laws, paying taxes, getting pissed off at your employer because he makes you come to the office by 9 am. But you also have the right to give a shit about other people and gut check how you are rationalizing your actions in this pandemic. The girls on the team will probably be fine. I have no idea how they're doing, it's not right for me to ask since I'm not supposed to know since, you know, Covid is not real and Facui is going to hide his head in the sand after he wins the Nobel Prize. But since you know everything, the girls on the team have parents I know, and they're not young and healthy, but I can't reach out to them and ask them if they're ok or bring them flowers or dinner if they're not ok, because, you know, Covid is not real and I'm not supposed to know. These people are in the target risk group and if they get it, they will likely not be ok. So while I definitely don't want you to be giving me or anyone advice on how I should live, because your attitude is to care about yourself and not others beyond your household, you should take a second to listen to the government, not the guy in charge who says it's fake news, but the scientists who know more about it than you, know more about the data, know more about what could actually happen. And more than anything, stop fucking telling people that you know how to read data. Data doesn't show how many people are on venilators and may be scarred for life from this thing. Don't fucking tell people you know anything unless you're a scientist that studies this stuff. You don't fucking know, but because of the guy in charge, they listen to stuff that you say because it goes with the live free or die mentality has us now at the lowest point in American history.


----------



## chiefs (Sep 23, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Since this response yesterday I have been told by a few people that they have Covid. One is a colleague who was scared to even tell me he may have been exposed and worried he had infected others. Other infected were players on my daughter's soccer team. So, your response is timely. You absolutely have the right to assess risk differently than me. You have the right to send a letter to any government official telling them they're wrong or go on a bulletin board and tell everyone how you live, that there are guidelines out there but you're not following them and that your family is doing great and you believe in Santa Claus. You also have the right to complain about wearing a seatbelt, obeying traffic laws, paying taxes, getting pissed off at your employer because he makes you come to the office by 9 am. But you also have the right to give a shit about other people and gut check how you are rationalizing your actions in this pandemic. The girls on the team will probably be fine. I have no idea how they're doing, it's not right for me to ask since I'm not supposed to know since, you know, Covid is not real and Facui is going to hide his head in the sand after he wins the Nobel Prize. But since you know everything, the girls on the team have parents I know, and they're not young and healthy, but I can't reach out to them and ask them if they're ok or bring them flowers or dinner if they're not ok, because, you know, Covid is not real and I'm not supposed to know. These people are in the target risk group and if they get it, they will likely not be ok. So while I definitely don't want you to be giving me or anyone advice on how I should live, because your attitude is to care about yourself and not others beyond your household, you should take a second to listen to the government, not the guy in charge who says it's fake news, but the scientists who know more about it than you, know more about the data, know more about what could actually happen. And more than anything, stop fucking telling people that you know how to read data. Data doesn't show how many people are on venilators and may be scarred for life from this thing. Don't fucking tell people you know anything unless you're a scientist that studies this stuff. You don't fucking know, but because of the guy in charge, they listen to stuff that you say because it goes with the live free or die mentality has us now at the lowest point in American history.


Go get help.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 23, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Go get help.


Denial. It's what mental illness is based on. Also, bullying is defined as accusing others of which you are guilty, so you're clearly the one who needs help.


----------



## Glitterhater (Sep 23, 2020)

m0relife said:


> Did we ever get to the bottom of if there was actually an e-mail sent?


Lol! Yes, there was. I think someone paraphrased it several pages back? Basically a club has some positive player(s) but honestly that's nothing unique to them, IMO.


----------



## Chalklines (Sep 23, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Lol! Yes, there was. I think someone paraphrased it several pages back?* Basically a club *has some positive player(s) but honestly that's nothing unique to them, IMO.


lol the bolded


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## Glitterhater (Sep 23, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> lol the bolded


I don't want to be accused of being a hater by repeating the name. I'm not even in Socal, lol


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## Woobie06 (Sep 23, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Since this response yesterday I have been told by a few people that they have Covid. One is a colleague who was scared to even tell me he may have been exposed and worried he had infected others. Other infected were players on my daughter's soccer team. So, your response is timely. You absolutely have the right to assess risk differently than me. You have the right to send a letter to any government official telling them they're wrong or go on a bulletin board and tell everyone how you live, that there are guidelines out there but you're not following them and that your family is doing great and you believe in Santa Claus. You also have the right to complain about wearing a seatbelt, obeying traffic laws, paying taxes, getting pissed off at your employer because he makes you come to the office by 9 am. But you also have the right to give a shit about other people and gut check how you are rationalizing your actions in this pandemic. The girls on the team will probably be fine. I have no idea how they're doing, it's not right for me to ask since I'm not supposed to know since, you know, Covid is not real and Facui is going to hide his head in the sand after he wins the Nobel Prize. But since you know everything, the girls on the team have parents I know, and they're not young and healthy, but I can't reach out to them and ask them if they're ok or bring them flowers or dinner if they're not ok, because, you know, Covid is not real and I'm not supposed to know. These people are in the target risk group and if they get it, they will likely not be ok. So while I definitely don't want you to be giving me or anyone advice on how I should live, because your attitude is to care about yourself and not others beyond your household, you should take a second to listen to the government, not the guy in charge who says it's fake news, but the scientists who know more about it than you, know more about the data, know more about what could actually happen. And more than anything, stop fucking telling people that you know how to read data. Data doesn't show how many people are on venilators and may be scarred for life from this thing. Don't fucking tell people you know anything unless you're a scientist that studies this stuff. You don't fucking know, but because of the guy in charge, they listen to stuff that you say because it goes with the live free or die mentality has us now at the lowest point in American history.


Dude...I’m not telling people anything.  I’m sharing my opinion which we all do.  You need to chill out.  I can assure you nobody listens to a word I say that has anything to do with how these things are managed.

Lighten up...there many people here that have similar perspectives that I do and many that that share what you believe.  Lots of discussions and people have dug into their camps.  People evaluate things differently.  Live with it.  No need to get overly emotional.

I said I read information and interpret it like many others.  I make my own opinions as many others.  Never said I was expert.  Which you certainly are not.  I doubt there is a real expert among us.  Anyway, we all look at things differently.

I never said/do/did half the things you mentioned.  You don’t know what I do or don’t do...You don’t know anything about me...But whatever...

Did you get it all out, Francis?  You are way, way too emotional for a Wednesday... Are you done with the temper tantrum?  I can literally feel you pounding and crying on the floor like a toddler.  To get this unhinged on a Soccer Board is pretty interesting.  You should really talk to somebody.  Your opinion matters just as much mine, which is not much..SMH...You do realize people stop listening and taking you seriously when get overly emotional in discourse.  Good thing you can change your handle.

Last I left this with you, I said agree to disagree, I respect your opinion, just don’t agree.  Moving on...

Nice to know that I have quality space in your dome.  I won’t take up much...Just remember it’s Wobbie06 with two B’s.  Good night!


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 23, 2020)

@thelonggame Oh, and one last thing...the people you know that have Covid, if under 55 and healthy are most likely going to be ok....don’t look at my “interpretation” of data...look at many others.  It’s gonna work out.

Why do I feel that way?  Not just the data that is presented all over the place, but also experiences at at my company we have had about 140 people working there between March and now...have had 9 people test positive for Covid since March....we follow protocols distancing, temp check, sanitize equipment, etc., we do it right...I know that would be hard for someone like you to believe.

EVERY single person has returned to work healthy...even the 61 year old (outside of the 55 age range I suggested).  We all have our own personal experiences with Covid and what drives our perspectives.  You have two ears and one mouth.  You my friend should listen twice as much as you talk.

If it was up to you, you’d shut the doors.  Get back under your rock, pull the blankets up, and wait for the all clear.


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## espola (Sep 23, 2020)

watfly said:


> What is your number of acceptable deaths with Covid?  The emotional false choice when you can only see thing through the eyes of Covid.
> 
> In California, a study showed that 55% of the excess deaths during a two month period of the pandemic are from other causes other than Covid. In Texas 64% of excess deaths are non-Covid. Nationwide the estimate is 65% Covid 35% non-Covid although 14 states had a higher percentage of non-Covid deaths.  Mental health, lack of treatment, starvation and even still births are just a few of the negative impacts.  The deaths from these causes due to the lockdowns are not only happening now, but will continue in the long term, far outlasting the virus.  So it wouldn't be surprising to see non-Covid deaths from the lockdown surpass deaths with Covid.
> 
> ...


The first article is a letter that any member in good standing of the AMA can submit into what is essentially a doctor's version of the our soccer forum.  The lead author is a retired medical professor.  It's not clear to me what your point is of posting the link.

The suicide article seems to run off in all directions without a affirm conclusion other than that we should do something about suicide.  What was your point in including that one?

The next two articles are from political opinion sites, so I won't waste any time on them

The last article includes this -

<<The study, led by Ashish K.C., a perinatal epidemiologist at Uppsala University, Sweden, and his colleagues, found that although the rate of stillbirths jumped, the overall number was unchanged during the pandemic. This can be explained by the fact that hospital births halved, from an average of 1,261 births each week before lockdown to 651. And a higher proportion of hospital births during lockdown had complications. The researchers don’t know what happened to women who didn’t go to hospital, or to their babies, so they cannot say whether the rate of stillbirths increased across the population.>>

Let me help you understand that - the women who were having no problems with their delivery birthed their babies at home or with a midwife, instead of going to the hospital.  The hospital saw fewer deliveries in total, but still got all the problem cases.  Thus the rate went up.


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 23, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Since this response yesterday I have been told by a few people that they have Covid. One is a colleague who was scared to even tell me he may have been exposed and worried he had infected others. Other infected were players on my daughter's soccer team. So, your response is timely. You absolutely have the right to assess risk differently than me. You have the right to send a letter to any government official telling them they're wrong or go on a bulletin board and tell everyone how you live, that there are guidelines out there but you're not following them and that your family is doing great and you believe in Santa Claus. You also have the right to complain about wearing a seatbelt, obeying traffic laws, paying taxes, getting pissed off at your employer because he makes you come to the office by 9 am. But you also have the right to give a shit about other people and gut check how you are rationalizing your actions in this pandemic. The girls on the team will probably be fine. I have no idea how they're doing, it's not right for me to ask since I'm not supposed to know since, you know, Covid is not real and Facui is going to hide his head in the sand after he wins the Nobel Prize. But since you know everything, the girls on the team have parents I know, and they're not young and healthy, but I can't reach out to them and ask them if they're ok or bring them flowers or dinner if they're not ok, because, you know, Covid is not real and I'm not supposed to know. These people are in the target risk group and if they get it, they will likely not be ok. So while I definitely don't want you to be giving me or anyone advice on how I should live, because your attitude is to care about yourself and not others beyond your household, you should take a second to listen to the government, not the guy in charge who says it's fake news, but the scientists who know more about it than you, know more about the data, know more about what could actually happen. And more than anything, stop fucking telling people that you know how to read data. Data doesn't show how many people are on venilators and may be scarred for life from this thing. Don't fucking tell people you know anything unless you're a scientist that studies this stuff. You don't fucking know, but because of the guy in charge, they listen to stuff that you say because it goes with the live free or die mentality has us now at the lowest point in American history.


Not to sound mean, but we also have the "Right" not to give a shit about other people. Not that it matters in your topic. As long as I am not taking  away the rights of others, I have the right to live my life regardless of your opinion. If your scared of the virus, stay home. Unlike you, I'm not trying to force you to do what I want you to do. Live your life. Don't worry, you won't get covid if you stay home and stay away from other people, wear gloves and bath in hand sanitizer. Im sure you got enough toilet paper to wipe yourself off with.


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## NorCalDad (Sep 23, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> If you were expecting scientific/medical expertise from any politician that isnt a scientist or doctor i think that says more about you then anyone else.  I expect our leading epidemiologist advising our president to tell the truth, or at the very least protect americans.  He did neither by tricking the public into not buying masks.  Like i said before, covering your mouth with anything is better than nothing is the latest reasoning we got for wearing scarves or DIY cloth masks.  He could have said that from the beginning. Anybody with common sense already knows covering your mouth helps to stop spread any germs or virus.  I dont know which political party Fauci is, but his poor advice is why there is little trust in the handling of the virus. Fauci was the one that said masks dont work, then said only N95 masks work, then said scarves were good enough.  Any President in any party getting advice from that "expert" would look like a fool.


Ok, great, sounds like you support wearing masks. Something we agree on.


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## MSK357 (Sep 23, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> Ok, great, sounds like you support wearing masks. Something we agree on.


If thats all you got from the revelation that our so called epidemiologist expert deceived the american people to save ppe for hcws without telling them to cover their face with a simple cloth then i dont think you really care about the american people. Otherwise you wouldn't defend him or the liberal politicians that put recovering covid patients in nursing homes. But somehow its all trumps fault right? Lol


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## NorCalDad (Sep 23, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> If thats all you got from the revelation that our so called epidemiologist expert deceived the american people to save ppe for hcws without telling them to cover their face with a simple cloth then i dont think you really care about the american people. Otherwise you wouldn't defend him or the liberal politicians that put recovering covid patients in nursing homes. But somehow its all trumps fault right? Lol


So let me understand this. You think all of this rests on Fauci's shoulders? You think Trump is blameless? You think him calling this a "democrat hoax" or that "the virus will just go away" is all rooted at what was communicated to Trump via, presumably, Fauci? Am I to understand you believe Trump has done nothing wrong, and that it's all the "liberal's" fault? Help me understand where you're coming from.


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## NorCalDad (Sep 23, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> If thats all you got from the revelation that our so called epidemiologist expert deceived the american people to save ppe for hcws without telling them to cover their face with a simple cloth then i dont think you really care about the american people. Otherwise you wouldn't defend him or the liberal politicians that put recovering covid patients in nursing homes. But somehow its all trumps fault right? Lol


But yeah, I am super stoked you think masks are important.


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## Luis Andres (Sep 23, 2020)

When you look at the big picture. And they keep selling cigarettes and junk food.


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## MSK357 (Sep 23, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> So let me understand this. You think all of this rests on Fauci's shoulders? You think Trump is blameless? You think him calling this a "democrat hoax" or that "the virus will just go away" is all rooted at what was communicated to Trump via, presumably, Fauci? Am I to understand you believe Trump has done nothing wrong, and that it's all the "liberal's" fault? Help me understand where you're coming from.


I'm not dumb enough to believe a politician or president that has no experience in infectious viruses is going to know the answers to deal with this situation. I feel bad that you think any president does. We look to the experts and the expert said we dont need masks. Keep in mind that the president that knows nothing about viruses was the one to restrict travel from hot spot countries despite the criticism from the left, despite mainstream media saying the virus isn't that serious. These are facts. Trumps actions in january showed he took the virus far more serious than joe biden would have since he admitted trump made the right decision after calling trump xenophobic for that very action. Between the two options in november, biden has shown he would have made the wrong choice. So who are you voting for in november?









						Biden campaign says he backs Trump's China travel ban | CNN Politics
					

Joe Biden's campaign said Friday the former vice president supports President Donald Trump's January 31 decision to ban foreign nationals who had been in China within the previous 14 days from entering the United States.




					www.cnn.com


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## NorCalDad (Sep 23, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> I'm not dumb enough to believe a politician or president that has no experience in infectious viruses is going to know the answers to deal with this situation. I feel bad that you think any president does. We look to the experts and the expert said we dont need masks. Keep in mind that the president that knows nothing about viruses was the one to restrict travel from hot spot countries despite the criticism from the left, despite mainstream media saying the virus isn't that serious. These are facts. Trumps actions in january showed he took the virus far more serious than joe biden would have since he admitted trump made the right decision after calling trump xenophobic for that very action. Between the two options in november, biden has shown he would have made the wrong choice. So who are you voting for in november?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, so to be clear. Trump, from your viewpoint, has done nothing wrong? You don't think he could've done anything differently? If you can honestly say he hasn't done anything wrong, then we will have to agree to disagree. If it helps you reflect a bit, I do think there have been some misguided democrats through this. 

Actually, I'd love to take this even a step further while I have your ear. I'm curious what has Trump's administration done that has made your life better? How has his policies improved your life? I'm really curious -- no snark intended here. What does Trump bring to the table that garners your, presumably, intense allegiance to him.


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## MSK357 (Sep 23, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> Ok, so to be clear. Trump, from your viewpoint, has done nothing wrong? You don't think he could've done anything differently? If you can honestly say he hasn't done anything wrong, then we will have to agree to disagree. If it helps you reflect a bit, I do think there have been some misguided democrats through this.
> 
> Actually, I'd love to take this even a step further while I have your ear. I'm curious what has Trump's administration done that has made your life better? How has his policies improved your life? I'm really curious -- no snark intended here. What does Trump bring to the table that garners your, presumably, intense allegiance to him.


I think the fact that trump restricted travel in january 31st and created the coronavirus task force, while his expert was saying this in late February is impressive:









						Top disease official: Risk of coronavirus in USA is 'minuscule'; skip mask and wash hands
					

Should I wear a mask? The U.S. infectious disease chief says no: "In the U.S. there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to wear a mask right now."



					www.usatoday.com
				




Once again our other choice (Joe Biden) said he wouldn't have restricted travel initially and called trump xenophobic for doing it.  Now he admits it was a good call. So I'm choosing the president with better decision making skills. We all know how our democrat leadership has and would have made it worse like pelosi and deblasio in february telling people to come out in large crowds to chinatown.

Other than that, tax reform.  Lower taxes is great for people and businesses. It creates more jobs here in the states which resulted in the lowest unemployment we had in 50 years for all every man, woman, and race until covid hit.  

First step act, helping to correct the racist crime bill that disproportionately put people of color in prison. A bill that Joe Biden literally wrote and did nothing to fix after decades in politics.

Being former military he has funded our defense department allowing us to gain control after the gains we lost to isis during obama and Hilarys rein. 

I'm pro life and pro school choice which biden is against. After all he prevented busing people of color to rich white schools. He's on record saying he didnt want his white kids growing up in a racial jungle. 

I can continue if you'd like but I think you get the point.


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## NorCalDad (Sep 23, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> I think the fact that trump restricted travel in january 31st and created the coronavirus task force, while his expert was saying this in late February is impressive:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you think it's possible your understanding of what Joe Bidden supposedly said is actually incorrect? Here's an alternative perspective worth reading:









						Trump's Misleading Comments on Biden and the Coronavirus - FactCheck.org
					

In July 14 remarks in the White House Rose Garden, President Donald Trump made a series of false, misleading and unsupported statements about the novel coronavirus and presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden's position on it.




					www.factcheck.org
				




On lowering taxes, I'm curious how much that saved you? 5%? 10%? For our family they stayed flat only because we have three kids and the child credits balanced out the limitations he put on SALT tax deductions. I would've thought the SALT tax deduction limits would upset a lot Californians. 

I think the First Step Act was good. No complaints there. 

As a former military member (by the way, thank you for your service), I'm curious your thoughts on how Trump has disrespected the military? For example, how do you reason about things he's said about John McCain? Also, what are your thoughts on ISIS rebuilding in Syria?

I concur, younger Biden's views on school segregation are abhorrent. I'm curious though, Trump is on record saying all kinds of awful things. How do you reason about those quotes? How do you get over those to the point where you feel comfortable supporting him?

By the way, I appreciate your responses to these. I've always been curious.


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## MSK357 (Sep 23, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> Do you think it's possible your understanding of what Joe Bidden supposedly said is actually incorrect? Here's an alternative perspective worth reading:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, there is no misunderstanding. His comment calling trump xenophobic was on the same day trump put travel restrictions on Chinese nationals. He can spin in all he wants, but that is more than just a coincidence.

Salt deductions upset wealthier California's. Dont forget he doubled the standard deductions. For most americans, doubling the standard deductions are greater than itemized deductions. You would think democrats would be happier about those changes. Unless you just like the government taking your money. In that case you can donate your money just lile the president donates his salary every quarter.

I dont think trumps comments on McCain were cool, but its obvious those comments were to him personally, not the military. McCain isn't exactly the most stand up guy. After all, he left his wife who stuck by him after all those years as a pow after she gained weight from a car crash.

As far as isis in syria, terrorism in general is always a constant threat. We need leadership that will equip our military with what they need. Unlike what we did during obama and Hillarys rein when we literally gave equipment to the rebels who had ties to al queda/isis and other terrorist organizations like the Al nusra front.  They literally filmed recruitment videos with military vehicles we gave them.

Which trump quotes bother you? But to be honest if you are voting for the president as a person, you will always be disappointed. Vote for policies. Biden has a long list of racist policies. Trump in less than 4 years made policies that benefit all u.s. citizens of every race. I could care less what a politician says, i care about the policies and the actions they take. So far its been far better than what biden has done. Facts.


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## jimlewis (Sep 24, 2020)

wheres Dominic when you need him?


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## Eagle33 (Sep 24, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> wheres Dominic when you need him?


it's like asking where is the police when you driving 80 and someone drives by you at about 120


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## MSK357 (Sep 24, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> wheres Dominic when you need him?


If someone talks about politics and then asks me questions about politics, im not just going to not respond. That would be rude.


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## EOTL (Sep 24, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> When you look at the big picture. And they keep selling cigarettes and junk food. View attachment 9065


Then why are all your panties in a bunch over a few riots? If 400,000 in 12 months plus a year avoidable dead people is no big deal, why does anyone care about some broken windows and maybe a couple dozen people killed?


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## Anon9 (Sep 24, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Then why are all your panties in a bunch over a few riots? If 400,000 in 12 months plus a year avoidable dead people is no big deal, why does anyone care about some broken windows and maybe a couple dozen people killed?


Avoidable? Idiot! Go back into hiding


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## dawson (Sep 24, 2020)

Perhaps it’s time to warn or ban people or freeze or delete this thread . It started out ok but now consists of posts that appear to be mainly personal and dominated by a relatively small number of posters who post a lot and recently on this thread are usually not related to youth soccer . And every once in a while some useful post with interesting youth soccer information gets lost in the sea of non soccer posts .

I’m for free speech but Dominic set up another off topic section where people can express anything they want and we can all choose where we want to go and it is his forum so he can set the rules and hopefully enforce them .


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## Luis Andres (Sep 24, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Then why are all your panties in a bunch over a few riots? If 400,000 in 12 months plus a year avoidable dead people is no big deal, why does anyone care about some broken windows and maybe a couple dozen people killed?


There is no justification for going after innocent people and destroying, looting and burning businesses. You say you don’t care until it happens to you. My stance on covid is simple. It’s there and it ain’t gonna go away so we must deal with it. Or better said one must deal with it and manage risk. If you are past the age limit or have a pre condition, stay home and wait for the vaccine. Stay away from everybody else or come out at your own risk well protected. Leave the majority or the rest of us alone. For the rest of us it’s just the flu and it’s not worth all the damage that is being done to middle class families. Kids can’t play soccer cause we are trying to protect some old man who should be protecting himself by staying home. Take your socialism bull shit out of here. We are not all equals. If you have pre conditions cause of what you eat or ingest, that’s on you and it’s your problem not mine. We can’t stop car accidents from happening but we don’t take away everyone’s right to drive. If you don’t put your seat belt on or drive carelessly it’s on you.


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## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Not to sound mean, but we also have the "Right" not to give a shit about other people. Not that it matters in your topic. As long as I am not taking  away the rights of others, I have the right to live my life regardless of your opinion. If your scared of the virus, stay home. Unlike you, I'm not trying to force you to do what I want you to do. Live your life. Don't worry, you won't get covid if you stay home and stay away from other people, wear gloves and bath in hand sanitizer. Im sure you got enough toilet paper to wipe yourself off with.


You also have the right to not follow put on your seatbelt, but you do it because it's the law and you'll get fined if you don't. You have chosen a side because the gap in policy and leadership allows you to. You are mad at me because I've chosen the side of public health and common sense that is being practiced in practically every country in the world that has shown leadership on this topic. And you're also making up a lot of stories about me and are 100% incorrect. I just don't tell everyone that I can do what I want when I want and spread disinformation because the forum allows me to.


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## EOTL (Sep 24, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> There is no justification for going after innocent people and destroying, looting and burning businesses. You say you don’t care until it happens to you. My stance on covid is simple. If you are past the age limit or have a pre condition, stay home and wait for the vaccine. Stay away from everybody else or come out at your own risk we’ll protected. Leave the majority or the rest of us alone. For the rest of us it’s just the flu and it’s not worth all the damage that is being done to middle class families. Kids can’t play soccer cause we are trying to protect some old man who should be protecting himself by staying home. Take your socialism bull shit out of here. We are not all equals. If you have pre conditions cause of what you eat or ingest, that’s on you and it’s your problem not mine


There’s no justification for not doing your part not to spread C19.  When you fail to do so, you are “going after other people” far more than when you throw a brick through a window.

Regardless, @MSK357 specifically said we have the right to not give a s**t about other people. So screw them and their businesses, right? But, like I said earlier, if 400,000 people dying of C19 is not a big deal, .006 percent of that is nothing.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 24, 2020)

dawson said:


> Perhaps it’s time to warn or ban people or freeze or delete this thread . It started out ok but now consists of posts that appear to be mainly personal and dominated by a relatively small number of posters who post a lot and recently on this thread are usually not related to youth soccer . And every once in a while some useful post with interesting youth soccer information gets lost in the sea of non soccer posts .
> 
> I’m for free speech but Dominic set up another off topic section where people can express anything they want and we can all choose where we want to go and it is his forum so he can set the rules and hopefully enforce them .


I'm sure Dom is busy with more important things, but you can run for a moderator or a deputy (probably uncontested)


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

Luis Andres said:


> When you look at the big picture. And they keep selling cigarettes and junk food. View attachment 9065


Covid has been around for less than a year. That picture will look a lot different in a year. But, you're short sighted. Thank you for proving that.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 24, 2020)

EOTL said:


> There’s no justification for not doing your part not to spread C19.  When you fail to do so, you are “going after other people” far more than when you throw a brick through a window.
> 
> Regardless, @MSK357 specifically said we have the right to not give a s**t about other people. So screw them and their businesses, right? But, like I said earlier, if 400,000 people dying _*WITH*_ C19 is not a big deal, .006 percent of that is nothing.


Fixed it for you.


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> You also have the right to not follow put on your seatbelt, but you do it because it's the law and you'll get fined if you don't. You have chosen a side because the gap in policy and leadership allows you to. You are mad at me because I've chosen the side of public health and common sense that is being practiced in practically every country in the world that has shown leadership on this topic. And you're also making up a lot of stories about me and are 100% incorrect. I just don't tell everyone that I can do what I want when I want and spread disinformation because the forum allows me to.


im not mad at all, its on local leadership to enforce the laws. blame your governor.  Not every state is in the same position. no need to set a "law" at the federal level.


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 24, 2020)

EOTL said:


> There’s no justification for not doing your part not to spread C19.  When you fail to do so, you are “going after other people” far more than when you throw a brick through a window.
> 
> Regardless, @MSK357 specifically said we have the right to not give a s**t about other people. So screw them and their businesses, right? But, like I said earlier, if 400,000 people dying of C19 is not a big deal, .006 percent of that is nothing.


EOTL doesnt want to admit health officials literally said  COVID doesnt have to be the cause of death to be listed as a COVID death.  He apparently believes everyone listed as a COVID death died from COVID.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> I think the fact that trump restricted travel in january 31st and created the coronavirus task force, while his expert was saying this in late February is impressive:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice cut/paste. Uh, being former military? Who are you talking about?


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> im not mad at all, its on local leadership to enforce the laws. blame your governor.  Not every state is in the same position. no need to set a "law" at the federal level.


It's not about laws. It's taking what the CDC says seriously and using common sense and not telling everyone else that the problem doesn't exist. Why not just start there?


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> It's not about laws. It's taking what the CDC says seriously and using common sense and not telling everyone else that the problem doesn't exist. Why not just start there?


You should really read and interpret some of the data the CDC puts out if you feel that way Francis.  Or just continue to listen to politicians, the news (absolutely CNN for you), and using your common sense.  Hope you’re cozy under the covers.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> @thelonggame Oh, and one last thing...the people you know that have Covid, if under 55 and healthy are most likely going to be ok....don’t look at my “interpretation” of data...look at many others.  It’s gonna work out.
> 
> Why do I feel that way?  Not just the data that is presented all over the place, but also experiences at at my company we have had about 140 people working there between March and now...have had 9 people test positive for Covid since March....we follow protocols distancing, temp check, sanitize equipment, etc., we do it right...I know that would be hard for someone like you to believe.
> 
> ...


I'm glad all those people who worked with you are still among the living. Did any of the 9  have symptoms? The people who I know that got Covid and had symptoms felt like they were going to die.  Are you aware of those who have long term health affects from this virus? Can you definitively say that, unlike the normal flu, people who get Covid don't all just recover and return to normal life? Since you don't know the answer because this pandemic has been around less than a year, what is the value of you telling everyone else who you are living during this pandemic when others are suffering either form the virus itself or its affect on society? And why is this a man up thing? You think somehow that your machismo will kill the virus? We already have seen enough of those who were proven wrong on that.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> You should really read and interpret some of the data the CDC puts out if you feel that way Francis.  Or just continue to listen to politicians, the news (absolutely CNN for you), and using your common sense.  Hope you’re cozy under the covers.


Now I understand. You don't listen to politicians, you know more than all of them.


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Now I understand. You don't listen to politicians, you know more than all of them.


I would venture to guess we all know more than some.  Even you and me. Have you seen and heard some of these people?  Don’t have to be smart to win a popularity contest, be rich, or successful.  Does help though.


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> I'm glad all those people who worked with you are still among the living. Did any of the 9  have symptoms? The people who I know that got Covid and had symptoms felt like they were going to die.  Are you aware of those who have long term health affects from this virus? Can you definitively say that, unlike the normal flu, people who get Covid don't all just recover and return to normal life? Since you don't know the answer because this pandemic has been around less than a year, what is the value of you telling everyone else who you are living during this pandemic when others are suffering either form the virus itself or its affect on society? And why is this a man up thing? You think somehow that your machismo will kill the virus? We already have seen enough of those who were proven wrong on that.


Im not saying any of that Francis.  Never have. I’m saying we approach it differently.  That’s ok.  People have different perspectives - many divergent from yours and mine.  You seem to have a real problem with that.  Just lighten up.

I will use “My Machismo will kill the virus”...I think it is funny and will give you full credit.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> I would venture to guess we all know more than some.  Even you and me. Have you seen and heard some of these people?  Don’t have to be smart to win a popularity contest, be rich, or successful.  Does help though.


On this we can agree. My point is, our access to information is limited and those in highest office know a lot more than us and have continued to provide misinformation that has and will continue to add to the death count, unnecessarily. This is a public health emergency. People are suffering all around us despite the fact that we can complain that our kids can't play soccer at the level they could a year ago. It's going to get worse in the fall and it's going to make the naysayers even more frustrated when the schools and restaurants are restricted again. We need to be fighting this virus at the federal level where all the resources are, and practicing common sense at the local level. Toughing it out, manning up is following the science chilling out until it ends, however much it sucks.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Im not saying any of that Francis.  Never have. I’m saying we approach it differently.  That’s ok.  People have different perspectives - many divergent from yours and mine.  You seem to have a real problem with that.  Just lighten up.
> 
> I will use “My Machismo will kill the virus”...I think it is funny and will give you full credit.


I only want to take full credit if you live through it. Don't try to prove me wrong.


----------



## dawson (Sep 24, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I'm sure Dom is busy with more important things, but you can run for a moderator or a deputy (probably uncontested)


Thanks for the suggestion but no thanks !!!

It would appear that job is now a full time job and I don’t spend that much time on this forum.

Which is why I was hoping we could get the personal attack posts back to the off topic section and focus on informative, civil soccer topics  in this section . But it appears that’s not in the near future. Fine with me .

I do find it ironic that some of these posters who talk about respecting others don’t practice what they preach . And the way they approach it you would think this forum alone has the power to determine the fate of the USA . The off topic section is where they can go to fantasize , debate , argue , cuss and name call to their hearts content .


----------



## timbuck (Sep 24, 2020)

Do Blues own a rental property in the greater Scottsdale area?  A few coaches have been there a LOT the last few weeks.  Good for them for getting their teams on the field.


----------



## NorCalDad (Sep 24, 2020)

dawson said:


> Perhaps it’s time to warn or ban people or freeze or delete this thread . It started out ok but now consists of posts that appear to be mainly personal and dominated by a relatively small number of posters who post a lot and recently on this thread are usually not related to youth soccer . And every once in a while some useful post with interesting youth soccer information gets lost in the sea of non soccer posts .
> 
> I’m for free speech but Dominic set up another off topic section where people can express anything they want and we can all choose where we want to go and it is his forum so he can set the rules and hopefully enforce them .


My apologies -- I continued the commentary with @MSK357 on a new thread in OT2.


----------



## happy9 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> We need to be fighting this virus at the federal level where all the resources are.


What additional federal resources do you think are needed?


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

happy9 said:


> What additional federal resources do you think are needed?


The federal resources that are needed are the ones that all large companies have already put in place in order to survive. Basically, a mindset that the virus does exist and we are going to fight it. Look at every state as part of the United States. Look at every state and consider how we can help. Densely populated states need more support and rural states need the same support in densely populated areas. In other words, after 9/11 we put a threat meter in place. Easy to do. If you looked at the US in terms of risk you could color code in every state in a level of risk from 1 to 5 instead of fighting red vs. blue.  Focus on critical industries to support the supply chain.  Equal access to safety equipment. Every governor proceeds with a national mindset and not a local one. Support for government agencies and respect for science. I did this in 5 minutes. In three words: A FUCKING PLAN.


----------



## happy9 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> The federal resources that are needed are the ones that all large companies have already put in place in order to survive. Basically, a mindset that the virus does exist and we are going to fight it. Look at every state as part of the United States. Look at every state and consider how we can help. Densely populated states need more support and rural states need the same support in densely populated areas. In other words, after 9/11 we put a threat meter in place. Easy to do. If you looked at the US in terms of risk you could color code in every state in a level of risk from 1 to 5 instead of fighting red vs. blue.  Focus on critical industries to support the supply chain.  Equal access to safety equipment. Every governor proceeds with a national mindset and not a local one. Support for government agencies and respect for science. I did this in 5 minutes. In three words: A FUCKING PLAN.


In your mind there was zero coordination between federal planners and their local counterparts?  You are saying that the norms of emergency planning (consequence/crisis management,), coordination, synchronization and years of demonstrated coordinated response was thrown out the window. That career emergency planners sat on their hands and did nothing for political gain?

I get it, the nosebleed section of our government has played politics with this - pick a side and you can get an example.  But the blanket idea that there wasn't a coordinated, vertical response to this is a reach.  The media loves this narrative, one side says no plan, the other side says the plan was perfect.  Like in every national emergency response, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, always room for improvement and opportunity to sustain what has gone well.

I would certainly agree with you if you said the political white noise during this election year has hampered the ability of professionals to do their job effectively.  What you are saying above is nothing but talking points and main stream media hysterics.  I won't go point by point above but please point out where equipment that was procured by the federal government was not delivered to a location that resulted in the health system being short equipment.  There was plenty of hysterical reporting in the media about hospitals "on the verge" of being short.


----------



## Chalklines (Sep 24, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Do Blues own a rental property in the greater Scottsdale area?  A few coaches have been there a LOT the last few weeks.  Good for them for getting their teams on the field.


they own secret under ground training bunkers in AZ and Nevada. What did you think was actually behind the fences at area 51?


----------



## XBZ (Sep 24, 2020)




----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

happy9 said:


> In your mind there was zero coordination between federal planners and their local counterparts?  You are saying that the norms of emergency planning (consequence/crisis management,), coordination, synchronization and years of demonstrated coordinated response was thrown out the window. That career emergency planners sat on their hands and did nothing for political gain?
> 
> I get it, the nosebleed section of our government has played politics with this - pick a side and you can get an example.  But the blanket idea that there wasn't a coordinated, vertical response to this is a reach.  The media loves this narrative, one side says no plan, the other side says the plan was perfect.  Like in every national emergency response, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, always room for improvement and opportunity to sustain what has gone well.
> 
> I would certainly agree with you if you said the political white noise during this election year has hampered the ability of professionals to do their job effectively.  What you are saying above is nothing but talking points and main stream media hysterics.  I won't go point by point above but please point out where equipment that was procured by the federal government was not delivered to a location that resulted in the health system being short equipment.  There was plenty of hysterical reporting in the media about hospitals "on the verge" of being short.


I think we generally agree here, and I agree that media hype always gets in the way. But the job of those in power is to act and not be distracted by the media and call the media the problem or the solution. The mindset from the beginning was red vs. blue, and still is today. Why did Maryland have to procure Covid test kits from Korea? And in what universe would the USA need to do this? Why is the greatest country in the world lacking for supplies? Why did the feds make states compete for resources? This will be political, but why was Cuomo asking for ventilators? I can't understand this. Why did a whistleblower say the task force was trying to manipulate data? The entire goal of this was to protect the stock market. Disinformation and misinformation are always there, but it continues to get worse and there is no sign of improvement. Any national plan puts us in better shape today.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

XBZ said:


> View attachment 9069


If that's your view of the world, then it's adding fuel to the fire. Do you care that players on those teams have suffered from the virus? If you look at this in a rational way it's really easy to read. The green states have much lower population density for the most part and are in safer areas and have lower risk of contracting or spreading the virus due to geography. If those players did not travel far, were tested regularly like pros are, had the ability to isolate so they didn't spread it to others then it's. Can that happen for HS students so their parents aren't infected?


----------



## happy9 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> I think we generally agree here, and I agree that media hype always gets in the way. But the job of those in power is to act and not be distracted by the media and call the media the problem or the solution. The mindset from the beginning was red vs. blue, and still is today. Why did Maryland have to procure Covid test kits from Korea? And in what universe would the USA need to do this? Why is the greatest country in the world lacking for supplies? Why did the feds make states compete for resources? This will be political, but why was Cuomo asking for ventilators? I can't understand this. Why did a whistleblower say the task force was trying to manipulate data? The entire goal of this was to protect the stock market. Disinformation and misinformation are always there, but it continues to get worse and there is no sign of improvement. Any national plan puts us in better shape today.


No disagreement from me on anything here.  It was going to be political from the beginning, there was no way around it.  It's why our legislative body has some of the lowest approval ratings, around 75% disapproval.  

To your point about Maryland, it's likely that was a recommendation from the federal government as a solution to getting product there faster.  Many federal organizations involved in procurement of PPE and they are given plenty of leash to conduct acquisition to meet timelines.  I don't see anything wrong with that, especially early on when access was tight.  Ventilators, well, that was political.  They were never going to run out of them but it made for great doom, gloom, and ghoul headlines.  Plenty of ventilators to go around, now we have too many.  I'm sure we'll stockpile some and sell some.

The federal governments role is to provide resources and focus regionally, not develop a one fit all national plan. We are not Sweden, Korea, Germany, etc.  Many in the hysterical media, who don't understand how this country is structured and organized  to respond to emergencies will continue to put blame on the lack of a national plan.  With that said, not much articulation of what is being actually done is happening.  That would help with the temperature of this country -----but it's an election year.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

B


happy9 said:


> No disagreement from me on anything here.  It was going to be political from the beginning, there was no way around it.  It's why our legislative body has some of the lowest approval ratings, around 75% disapproval.
> 
> To your point about Maryland, it's likely that was a recommendation from the federal government as a solution to getting product there faster.  Many federal organizations involved in procurement of PPE and they are given plenty of leash to conduct acquisition to meet timelines.  I don't see anything wrong with that, especially early on when access was tight.  Ventilators, well, that was political.  They were never going to run out of them but it made for great doom, gloom, and ghoul headlines.  Plenty of ventilators to go around, now we have too many.  I'm sure we'll stockpile some and sell some.
> 
> The federal governments role is to provide resources and focus regionally, not develop a one fit all national plan. We are not Sweden, Korea, Germany, etc.  Many in the hysterical media, who don't understand how this country is structured and organized  to respond to emergencies will continue to put blame on the lack of a national plan.  With that said, not much articulation of what is being actually done is happening.  That would help with the temperature of this country -----but it's an election year.


But in times of crisis, the feds had an opportunity to step up. Normally states can manage on their own. It exposed a lot of weaknesses in national leadership that continue to get worse.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> My point is, our access to information is limited and those in highest office know a lot more than us and have continued to provide misinformation that has and will continue to add to the death count, unnecessarily.


Setting aside this little political exchange....just an aside...with the internet this is no longer true.  It used to be the so-called expert class captured information because they were the only ones that had access to it.  The internet has changed all that.  You have access to most of the studies and data that they do.  Think critically, think for yourself, and don't let others of any political stripe think for you.

I'll tell this story again.  Several months ago, my doctors misdiagnosed a very bad bacterial infection.   They told me to keep dong what I was doing even though I was very quickly deteriorating.  I did my research and insisted on several more tests.  Turns out another week on the same course would have landed me at the minimum long term in the hospital, or quite possibly my kids would have had to bury me.  But my friends, even my folks said "trust the experts".  Question everything, be persistent, be insistent, and think for yourself.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Setting aside this little political exchange....just an aside...with the internet this is no longer true.  It used to be the so-called expert class captured information because they were the only ones that had access to it.  The internet has changed all that.  You have access to most of the studies and data that they do.  Think critically, think for yourself, and don't let others of any political stripe think for you.
> 
> I'll tell this story again.  Several months ago, my doctors misdiagnosed a very bad bacterial infection.   They told me to keep dong what I was doing even though I was very quickly deteriorating.  I did my research and insisted on several more tests.  Turns out another week on the same course would have landed me at the minimum long term in the hospital, or quite possibly my kids would have had to bury me.  But my friends, even my folks said "trust the experts".  Question everything, be persistent, be insistent, and think for yourself.


On one point we can agree. Everyone needs to take charge of their own health. Sadly my kids' doctors have given a lot of bad advice over the years and we always question it and continue to. This is a soccer forum so everyone understands the MDs look at the greater number of kids who come in and think their advice for a serious soccer player will work. It almost never did. I mean, not one of those MDs ever considered a chiropractor. Those who do what the doctor ordered without seeing other options or considering it have a less chance of being happy and healthy. But I disagree on your interpretation of the pandemic. What is known today will be contradicted tomorrow scientifically according to the virus because we know so little about it, but certain things that we are being told are just common sense and we have national and global data to show that we are in trouble and that we will be until there is a vaccine, better national leadership and a proven therapy to treat it. None of those are available yet to us.


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## MSK357 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Nice cut/paste. Uh, being former military? Who are you talking about?


me.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Sep 24, 2020)

dawson said:


> Perhaps it’s time to warn or ban people or freeze or delete this thread . It started out ok but now consists of posts that appear to be mainly personal and dominated by a relatively small number of posters who post a lot and recently on this thread are usually not related to youth soccer . And every once in a while some useful post with interesting youth soccer information gets lost in the sea of non soccer posts .
> 
> I’m for free speech but Dominic set up another off topic section where people can express anything they want and we can all choose where we want to go and it is his forum so he can set the rules and hopefully enforce them .


I can tell you one thing, I'm not about to try to re-summarize it


----------



## paytoplay (Sep 24, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> they own secret under ground training bunkers in AZ and Nevada. What did you think was actually behind the fences at area 51?


Not true. People tell me Blues is a secret owner of a medium-sized Pizza Restaurant chain that is headquartered in the Scottsdale area. One of these new restaurants was just built adjacent to a large municipal soccer field. You do the math.


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> It's not about laws. It's taking what the CDC says seriously and using common sense and not telling everyone else that the problem doesn't exist. Why not just start there?


that would be great if the advice we got from our expert was consistent with that.  I pointed out that the president did take the problem serious by restricting travel on jan 31st and creating the coronavirus task force.  I showed how our expert was on usa today saying the problem was minuscule and that people really needed to be focused on combating the flu. That was late February when our expert said that.  the president as expected should be taking advice from our experts.  do you disagree that the president took actions to combat the virus while fauci was telling the news it was a minuscule problem?


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> me.


Your entire post is based on governing by exception, which is how current leadership sells everything. There are bad immigrants who are abusing the system. Yes. There are people taking advantage of government assistance and living off of our tax dollars. Yes. There are bad actors during protests. Yes. Do some women get abortions and abuse the system for their own gain? Yes. But policy for a great country like the USA is not set by exception, it's established for the normal people who don't carry a confederate flag and who want to love thy neighbor and for the immigrants and people of all colors who make this country great. The guy in charge doesn't respect anything but the exceptions that people get pissed off about. Words and actions tell the story day after day. At the highest level, there is currently no law, no order, no respect for authority, no decency, no fight for Covid, no desire for race relations. And just today 400 + top military made their choice. Why are you not with them?


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> that would be great if the advice we got from our expert was consistent with that.  I pointed out that the president did take the problem serious by restricting travel on jan 31st and creating the coronavirus task force.  I showed how our expert was on usa today saying the problem was minuscule and that people really needed to be focused on combating the flu. That was late February when our expert said that.  the president as expected should be taking advice from our experts.  do you disagree that the president took actions to combat the virus while fauci was telling the news it was a minuscule problem?


Our problem with fighting this virus is misinformation and infighting. If you and I both agreed to wear a mask and not fight normal safety measures, we begin to fix the problem. Cutting off travel was a good start. National lockdown was a good start. I dispute that Fauci ever committed that this is a miniscule problem. Did you see him grilling a senator yesterday on herd immunity? The actions from the top of the administration are telling us every day that we knew about the problems at the highest level and the public was told something else. Even after lockdown until today, we're still hearing go back to school, open up. And every time that happens, the virus comes back. If you're going to say those things, list the safety measures. Stop undermining advice.


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Your entire post is based on governing by exception, which is how current leadership sells everything. There are bad immigrants who are abusing the system. Yes. There are people taking advantage of government assistance and living off of our tax dollars. Yes. There are bad actors during protests. Yes. Do some women get abortions and abuse the system for their own gain? Yes. But policy for a great country like the USA is not set by exception, it's established for the normal people who don't carry a confederate flag and who want to love thy neighbor and for the immigrants and people of all colors who make this country great. The guy in charge doesn't respect anything but the exceptions that people get pissed off about. Words and actions tell the story day after day. At the highest level, there is currently no law, no order, no respect for authority, no decency, no fight for Covid, no desire for race relations. And just today 400 + top military made their choice. Why are you not with them?


Join Norcaldad and me on the other thread.


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## Patandpats (Sep 24, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> I think the fact that trump restricted travel in january 31st and created the coronavirus task force, while his expert was saying this in late February is impressive:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL, he's done an amazing job on Covid.  



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1309070320163270657  This guy tweets something similar every day.

It really boggles the mind to think that we are the only country in the world suffering from Covid this way, the President has admittedly lied about the seriousness of it and flaunts his own experts advice on mask all the time, but you think because we were the 42nd country to close our borders he did a good job.


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## MSK357 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Our problem with fighting this virus is misinformation and infighting. If you and I both agreed to wear a mask and not fight normal safety measures, we begin to fix the problem. Cutting off travel was a good start. National lockdown was a good start. I dispute that Fauci ever committed that this is a miniscule problem. Did you see him grilling a senator yesterday on herd immunity? The actions from the top of the administration are telling us every day that we knew about the problems at the highest level and the public was told something else. Even after lockdown until today, we're still hearing go back to school, open up. And every time that happens, the virus comes back. If you're going to say those things, list the safety measures. Stop undermining advice.


you read the article where usa today said fauci called COVID minuscule, are you saying he didnt say that?  just look up the interview. its on youtube. anyways move it to the other thread.  I dont want to be blocked because people dont know what our expert said in interviews back in february.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> But policy for a great country like the USA is not set by exception, it's established for the normal people who don't carry a confederate flag and who want to love thy neighbor and for the immigrants and people of all colors who make this country great.


Isn't BLM and full Dem support for it creating policy by exception? Isn't defund the police, etc all by exception? The number of unarmed black men shot by the police in any given year you can count on a hand or two. 

And the list goes one. 

To pretend one side is pure and the other side is evil is naive at a minimum or simply partisanship (most likely).


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 24, 2020)

Patandpats said:


> LOL, he's done an amazing job on Covid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


where were you in february when fauci said the situation with COVID is minuscule?  He said we should be focused on the flu.  did you read the article for usa today? its quoting from fauci interview in february after the president took actions that the left said was xenophobic.


----------



## happy9 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> B
> 
> But in times of crisis, the feds had an opportunity to step up. Normally states can manage on their own. It exposed a lot of weaknesses in national leadership that continue to get worse.


We'll just agree to disagree.  I don't know what "stepping up" means.  The system isn't designed for the federal government to take the lead on domestic emergencies.  I agree the messaging certainly has been lacking.  If you are referring to politicians being political, then yes, rhetoric should have been more moderate 

 Even when there were limited federal directives, many governors publicly stated that the federal government was limited in power.  It's all political BS - NY is a perfect example.  You can't have it both ways, but that's called politics.  Wyoming's needs are different from New York's needs, from Washington's needs, Oregons, etc..you get the point.

I will say that it may be time to re-look how the government responds to public health emergencies.  Federal regulations give more power to states than to the federal government.  In this case, the cross border nature of this event may force the Public Health community to re-look things. But this is a big ask of a government that is so deeply divided and partisan.  Everyone wants to be the hero for their ideological cause


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 24, 2020)




----------



## LASTMAN14 (Sep 24, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> View attachment 9070


Of course he said that!


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Isn't BLM and full Dem support for it creating policy by exception? Isn't defund the police, etc all by exception? The number of unarmed black men shot by the police in any given year you can count on a hand or two.
> 
> And the list goes one.
> 
> To pretend one side is pure and the other side is evil is naive at a minimum or simply partisanship (most likely).


Do you count 100s or 1000s on one hand or two? Just google back people shot by policy in 2020 and you'll get facts, but I guess you have big hands and know everything. Hey, a black guy without a gun gets shot, why should that bother you?  

So, you're head is in the desert sand. If you can pull it out, ask yourself this question. Why does BLM exist? Try a little empathy before you answer. 

As far as your next comment, elections are about the choice between the lesser of the two evils. I would guess from your perspective, I can see you'd like the sore loser who refuses to concede power when he loses. It's kinda like running on the field and crying when your team loses. No one likes a sore loser, but is that what you teach your children?

 Both sides honestly kinda suck, but one is much worse.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

H


Kicker4Life said:


> View attachment 9070


Hope it stays that way.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> View attachment 9070


He might finally be forced to play defense now.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Do you count 100s or 1000s on one hand or two? Just google back people shot by policy in 2020 and you'll get facts, but I guess you have big hands and know everything. Hey, a black guy without a gun gets shot, why should that bother you?
> 
> So, you're head is in the desert sand. If you can pull it out, ask yourself this question. Why does BLM exist? Try a little empathy before you answer.
> 
> ...


Why doesn't it bother you when 7 of them kill each other on a daily basis?  We know why the organization exists... to do away with the traditional family unit that doesn't exponentially lead to no education and lots of incarceration.  OH WAIT!  They just removed that paragraph.


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 24, 2020)

chiefs said:


> What do you do when the annual flu comes around, which stats show it’s much worse for kids then COVID?  SDSU has had over 1000 kids diagnosed with COVID; Zero hospitalizations; all recovered.  Open up all sports and schools.  Simple.


Not true, SDSU currently has a student hospitalized.  But the big question is, how many other people have  those other 999 students passed the virus onto others? With the flu, you know you are sick, others know you are sick, easy to avoid. Oh, when the flu comes around I get my flu shot.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 24, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Not true, SDSU currently has a student hospitalized.  But the big question is, how many other people have  those other 999 students passed the virus onto others? With the flu, you know you are sick, others know you are sick, easy to avoid. Oh, when the flu comes around I get my flu shot.


The data just keeps coming in.


Reopening schools isn’t spreading coronavirus, say public health experts. Early evidence “suggests that opening schools may not be as risky as many have feared,” report Laura Meckler and Valerie Strauss in the _Washington Post_. While students and teachers have become sick with coronavirus, there’s “little evidence that the virus is spreading inside buildings.”






Sweden, which didn’t close schools, reported no higher rate of infection among  schoolchildren than in Finland, where schools did close in spring. Photo: Lena Granefelt
The new National COVID-19 School Response Data Dashboard released its first data showing low levels of infection among students and teachers. Emily Oster, a Brown economics professor who helped create the dashboard, said school coronavirus rates are “much lower” than those in the surrounding community.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Why doesn't it bother you when 7 of them kill each other on a daily basis?  We know why the organization exists... to do away with the traditional family unit that doesn't exponentially lead to no education and lots of incarceration.  OH WAIT!  They just removed that paragraph.


Black on black violence is something you should do more research on before you start talking about it.


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 24, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Of course, the apple doesn’t fall from the fear tree.


They love the independence and freedom.  They are highly self motivated, successful students and athletes.  No need on our part to push them.  They know how to occupy their time and are incredibly creative, no whining or moaning about "poor me"!


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Do you count 100s or 1000s on one hand or two? Just google back people shot by policy in 2020 and you'll get facts, but I guess you have big hands and know everything. Hey, a black guy without a gun gets shot, why should that bother you?


A black guy with a gun getting shot doesn't bother me. Nor does a white guy with a gun, etc. 

The BLM crap and the defund the police idiocy is supposedly related to UNARMED black guys getting shot without as they claim any reason. Those cases you can count on a couple of hands any year. Go look up their poster boys. That by definition is creating policy by exception.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> H
> 
> Hope it stays that way.


According to the CDC, the odds are very much in his favor....


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> The data just keeps coming in.
> 
> 
> Reopening schools isn’t spreading coronavirus, say public health experts. Early evidence “suggests that opening schools may not be as risky as many have feared,” report Laura Meckler and Valerie Strauss in the _Washington Post_. While students and teachers have become sick with coronavirus, there’s “little evidence that the virus is spreading inside buildings.”
> ...


Sweden is a failed experiment. And there's a key point you are missing. If someone spreads it from school and someone dies and the school gets sued, everything closes down again. Part of the AMerican system is the freedom to sue someone, like it or not, some idiot will do it. It's as much of the problem as the system itself, and we all benefit and lose from it.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Black on black violence is something you should do more research on before you start talking about it.


I know black on black murders average about 2,500 per year and there's an average of 225 black people killed in confrontations with police.  What Hound told you was "unarmed" deaths.  There aren't that many.  I don't need to research what the latest excuse is for B on B crime... I'm sure it's somebody else's fault.


----------



## Grace T. (Sep 24, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> The data just keeps coming in.








						Science | AAAS
					






					science.sciencemag.org


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> A black guy with a gun getting shot doesn't bother me. Nor does a white guy with a gun, etc.
> 
> The BLM crap and the defund the police idiocy is supposedly related to UNARMED black guys getting shot without as they claim any reason. Those cases you can count on a couple of hands any year. Go look up their poster boys. That by definition is creating policy by exception.


When you ask why people are protesting rather than getting mad at the protests you will have less stress about this. Would you prefer to live in a country where you get disappeared when you protest?


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> I know black on black murders average about 2,500 per year and there's an average of 225 black people killed in confrontations with police.  What Hound told you was "unarmed" deaths.  There aren't that many.  I don't need to research what the latest excuse is for B on B crime... I'm sure it's somebody else's fault.


So your point is black people don't have a right to stand up for equal rights? Or what are you getting at? This figure is also more like 4-5 times higher than you say, but the point from the people protesting and standing up for their rights is that 1 life is too much, and then there's a history of how black people are treated worldwide throughout history. So, you're angry at people for speaking up and joining movements, or the few who screw it up for everyone?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> When you ask why people are protesting rather than getting mad at the protests you will have less stress about this. Would you prefer to live in a country where you get disappeared when you protest?


I prefer to live in a country where uneducated people don't destroy businesses and livelihoods because they're uneducated about each case and don't like the outcome determined by people that do know all the facts.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> So your point is black people don't have a right to stand up for equal rights? Or what are you getting at? This figure is also more like 4-5 times higher than you say, but the point from the people protesting and standing up for their rights is that 1 life is too much, and then there's a history of how black people are treated worldwide. So, you're angry at people for speaking up and joining movements, or the few how screw it up for everyone?


No, my point is that it's become quite clear some people base guilt and innocence on skin color alone.  Facts and knowing the facts no longer matter to some people.  Like the protesters still shouting that Breonna Taylor was killed sleeping in her bed.  That still shout the warrant was illegal.  That still shout police didn't announce themselves.  And no, the figure is not 4-5 times higher than I say.  If you can find a source more accurate than the FBI's, let me know.  It's not about equality... it's about a lack of accountability.  They aren't standing up for equal rights... they're standing up for special rights.  As in, "we should be able to be criminals that physically attack police officers and get away with it."  Sorry... not having it.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> I prefer to live in a country where uneducated people don't destroy businesses and livelihoods because they're uneducated about each case and don't like the outcome determined by people that do know all the facts.


Great, so who exactly knows the facts? And again, you're looking at exceptions. We know that there are bad actors at every protest, like when your 17 year old friend in WI shot some dudes that weren't black  at a protest against killing unarmed black people.


----------



## Patandpats (Sep 24, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> where were you in february when fauci said the situation with COVID is minuscule?  He said we should be focused on the flu.  did you read the article for usa today? its quoting from fauci interview in february after the president took actions that the left said was xenophobic.


It's almost like scientific opinions change over time based on new evidence.  And in Feb it was miniscule based on what we new.  But good job cherry picking and ignoring everything else.  What has your Dear Leader done to stop the spread since Covid landed on our shores in large quantities? Deny, lie, deflect and focus on his re-election.

I guess I can understand someone being a republican, but your worship of someone who has done an objectively terrible job is baffling.  Look at those other countries.  Trump said Obama should resign when two people died of Ebola.  This doesn't even consider the racism (which I guess you like) the grifting (just last week it was reported that Qatar rents a SF office from Trump for 135k and they don't use it), the nepotism, the denial of science, the violating of norms, installing donors in to important positions when they have no experience, lying about the safety of mail in voting, the disdain for our military etc.

Take all that out and you still have someone who bungled the big test and did so worse than any other country in the world.  We'd be talking about soccer and not politics if he hadn't fucked it up so bad.


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 24, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Not afraid, just does not compute. This is the pro-life crowd, after all.





NorCalDad said:


> So, I'm an American before I'm part of any political party.  I get the vibe here that you care more about protecting the actions of a specific political party versus understanding if masks work or not.  I don't care what political party you're from, but to give federal leadership a pass on its mistakes is about as un-American as it gets.  There's absolutely a distinction between how our President presented the situation versus Fauci.  This is simply undeniable.  I say the same thing about actions taken by some Democratic leaders.  There have been some significant missteps from the entire political ideological spectrum.  Our politicians are accountable to us, all of them.  The sooner we all realize this and get out of this partisan BS, the sooner we can have real positive impact on everyone's lives.  Or, I guess, we could all go back and watch some Wally George re-runs.





Grace T. said:


> 1. They didn’t in the past. They specifically said not to
> 2. There are still health officers in countries including the hard hit Low Countries that disagree. It’s a minority position but they are out there. Some including in the us reverse under political pressure because: a. The cost of the policy is minimal so why not if it might help and b. The politicians are under tremendous pressure to “do something”. It’s not science it’s politics
> 3. Even they can’t seem to wear them properly with health officers around the world being caught more than dozens of time wearing them improperly or removing them.


Maybe everyone should stock up on Clorox!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Great, so who exactly knows the facts? And again, you're looking at exceptions. We know that there are bad actors at every protest, like when your 17 year old friend in WI shot some dudes that weren't black  at a protest against killing unarmed black people.


Yes, there are bad actors at every protest... of every skin color.  My 17-year old friend shot dudes that physically attacked him.  Bad move on their part.

The facts are known by people that don't decided what building their going to destroy based on what Al Sharpton says.


----------



## happy9 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Why does BLM exist? Try a little empathy before you answer.


As an idea, the literal interpretation of Black Lives Matter is certainly something that most rational people can get on board with, along with other lives. As an organization, with it's self reported doctrine, the platforms it supports, and their documented actions, they are not supportable by most intelligent and rational people.  BLM as an organization doesn't come close to demonstrating empathy, just take a look at their  their hyper politicized agenda.  Use the google and youtube to verify.  Talk about the hijacking the plight of a group of people.


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 24, 2020)

Patandpats said:


> It's almost like scientific opinions change over time based on new evidence.  And in Feb it was miniscule based on what we new.  But good job cherry picking and ignoring everything else.  What has your Dear Leader done to stop the spread since Covid landed on our shores in large quantities? Deny, lie, deflect and focus on his re-election.
> 
> I guess I can understand someone being a republican, but your worship of someone who has done an objectively terrible job is baffling.  Look at those other countries.  Trump said Obama should resign when two people died of Ebola.  This doesn't even consider the racism (which I guess you like) the grifting (just last week it was reported that Qatar rents a SF office from Trump for 135k and they don't use it), the nepotism, the denial of science, the violating of norms, installing donors in to important positions when they have no experience, lying about the safety of mail in voting, the disdain for our military etc.
> 
> Take all that out and you still have someone who bungled the big test and did so worse than any other country in the world.  We'd be talking about soccer and not politics if he hadn't fucked it up so bad.


Come on man, you are acting like people werent commenting on trumps words during that same time.  I would have repeated what fauci said also.  Hes supposed to be the expert. lol.  The fact is biden called trump xenophobic on the day he restricted travel for chinese nationals. then months later agreed with trump.  If you want to vote for someone that would have make the situation worse go ahead, youd fall right in line with newsom and cuomo putting covid patients in nursing homes and pelosi and deblasio inviting people out in large groups in chinatown.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> When you ask why people are protesting rather than getting mad at the protests you will have less stress about this. Would you prefer to live in a country where you get disappeared when you protest?


Again you were making a claim that trump makes policy based on exceptions.

I just pointed out to you that the Dems do the same thing all the time and gave you the most recent example of what they are doing


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

happy9 said:


> As an idea, the literal interpretation of Black Lives Matter is certainly something that most rational people can get on board with, along with other lives. As an organization, with it's self reported doctrine, the platforms it supports, and their documented actions, they are not supportable by most intelligent and rational people.  BLM as an organization doesn't come close to demonstrating empathy, just take a look at their  their hyper politicized agenda.  Use the google and youtube to verify.  Talk about the hijacking the plight of a group of people.


Exactly.


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 24, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> So let me understand this. You think all of this rests on Fauci's shoulders? You think Trump is blameless? You think him calling this a "democrat hoax" or that "the virus will just go away" is all rooted at what was communicated to Trump via, presumably, Fauci? Am I to understand you believe Trump has done nothing wrong, and that it's all the "liberal's" fault? Help me understand where you're coming from.


Maybe MSK357 has already injected bleach and is not worried about Covid-19.


----------



## happy9 (Sep 24, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Maybe MSK357 has already injected bleach and is not worried about Covid-19.


are you saying it doesn't work?  prove it..


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Maybe MSK357 has already injected bleach and is not worried about Covid-19.


The Comedy News Network, themselves, admitting Covid-19 wasn't called "a hoax".









						Fact check: Biden ad misleadingly suggests Trump called Covid-19 a 'hoax'
					

During his campaign's highest week of ad spending, Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden tweeted out an ad Tuesday attacking President Donald Trump for comments he has made over the pandemic. Specifically, the ad suggests that Trump has called the virus a hoax.




					www.cnn.com


----------



## Copa9 (Sep 24, 2020)

Patandpats said:


> LOL, he's done an amazing job on Covid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sad, US has 4% of the world's population but 20% of the deaths from covid-19.


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Yes, there are bad actors at every protest... of every skin color.  My 17-year old friend shot dudes that physically attacked him.  Bad move on their part.
> 
> The facts are known by people that don't decided what building their going to destroy based on what Al Sharpton says.


Al Sharpton? What decade dude? You're writing in this cryptic language saying that you somehow know more than others about something. When you ask yourself why someone will go to a protest for any reason then you're on the right track. There is no logic when people see those in their community regularly being killed when other communities are not suffering in that way. If you have watched the 8 minute George Floyd video you would not say these things. There are 50 stars on the flag. You see those and group them to put one side against another, and you spend the rest of your time trying to fit the narrative in the president into your thinking process and how we are different. This conversation is over as soon as you knowledge a shred of empathy for those who don't have what you have or see the world as you do.


----------



## Luis Andres (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Covid has been around for less than a year. That picture will look a lot different in a year. But, you're short sighted. Thank you for proving that.


just stay home, lock yourself up and wait for the vaccine. Leave the rest of us alone


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Sad, US has 4% of the world's population but 20% of the deaths from covid-19.


I wonder if other countries are counting it as a Covid death when the person died of something else and Covid showed up in the autopsy.


----------



## Luis Andres (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> It's not about laws. It's taking what the CDC says seriously and using common sense and not telling everyone else that the problem doesn't exist. Why not just start there?


the cdc can’t mKe up their mind. They are so lost themselves


----------



## Luis Andres (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> On this we can agree. My point is, our access to information is limited and those in highest office know a lot more than us and have continued to provide misinformation that has and will continue to add to the death count, unnecessarily. This is a public health emergency. People are suffering all around us despite the fact that we can complain that our kids can't play soccer at the level they could a year ago. It's going to get worse in the fall and it's going to make the naysayers even more frustrated when the schools and restaurants are restricted again. We need to be fighting this virus at the federal level where all the resources are, and practicing common sense at the local level. Toughing it out, manning up is following the science chilling out until it ends, however much it sucks.


federal level? Your kidding right? Trump says go left the Democrats go right. Trump says go up the Demorats go down. it’s pointless. They don’t care about covid. They just care about getting rid of Trump that’s it. Wake up and smell the coffee


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Al Sharpton? What decade dude? You're writing in this cryptic language saying that you somehow know more than others about something. When you ask yourself why someone will go to a protest for any reason then you're on the right track. There is no logic when people see those in their community regularly being killed when other communities are not suffering in that way. If you have watched the 8 minute George Floyd video you would not say these things. There are 50 stars on the flag. You see those and group them to put one side against another, and you spend the rest of your time trying to fit the narrative in the president into your thinking process and how we are different. This conversation is over as soon as you knowledge a shred of empathy for those who don't have what you have or see the world as you do.


What decade?  LMAO!  How about yesterday's?  









						Rev. Al Sharpton: ‘Alarming’ to see grand jury decision in Breonna Taylor case
					

Rev. Al Sharpton joins Lawrence O’Donnell to discuss the “outrageous and unbelievable” justification of the grand jury for not directly charging the officers with the murder of Breonna Taylor.




					www.msnbc.com
				




I know more than a lot of others because I do the research.  George Floyd was a piece of shit.  Had he not died that afternoon, because of resisting, the 6+ drugs in his system (THC, morphine, fentanyl, weed and meth) probably would have caused him to run over some poor family in the crosswalk because George thought he was above the law.  

I have no sympathy for criminals that resist arrest.  If someone was blocking my car in support of Daniel Shaver, I'd take them for an asphalt bath, too.  If you're stupid enough to wave a rifle outside a hotel window and keep reaching for your waistband at gunpoint, society is better off without you in it.


----------



## watfly (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Do you count 100s or 1000s on one hand or two? Just google back people shot by policy in 2020 and you'll get facts, but I guess you have big hands and know everything. Hey, a black guy without a gun gets shot, why should that bother you?
> 
> So, you're head is in the desert sand. If you can pull it out, ask yourself this question. Why does BLM exist? Try a little empathy before you answer.
> 
> ...


You might try looking at the WAPO database of fatal police shootings to firm up your numbers.  You may be surprised how few unarmed and unprovoked fatal shootings by police, not that any are OK, but not remotely close to being systematic.   Doesn't mean that reforms aren't warranted, just that we should focus on the data, and not emotions.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

Coronavirus: Why are international comparisons difficult?
					

Should you be comparing Covid-19 statistics between countries?



					www.bbc.com


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 24, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> View attachment 9070


“His Machismo will beat the Virus”
                              - c/o @thelonggame


----------



## Woobie06 (Sep 24, 2020)

Saw this today...made me laugh...


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Al Sharpton? What decade dude? You're writing in this cryptic language saying that you somehow know more than others about something. When you ask yourself why someone will go to a protest for any reason then you're on the right track. There is no logic when people see those in their community regularly being killed when other communities are not suffering in that way. If you have watched the 8 minute George Floyd video you would not say these things. There are 50 stars on the flag. You see those and group them to put one side against another, and you spend the rest of your time trying to fit the narrative in the president into your thinking process and how we are different. This conversation is over as soon as you knowledge a shred of empathy for those who don't have what you have or see the world as you do.


I'll leave this here for you and then I'm done on the subject here.  I can give you Sharpton quotes up the wazoo in 2020.  Take a look at this video from the Hodge Twins.  Watch the clip starting at about the :50 mark.


----------



## Eagle33 (Sep 24, 2020)

I believe all nonsense will immediately stop as soon as we defund......Twitter


----------



## paytoplay (Sep 24, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Maybe MSK357 has already injected bleach and is not worried about Covid-19.


Doctors are so lazy. In all seriousness. Why don’t they look into putting some bleach on the Covid or even you know some ultraviolet lighting?! Does this guy gotta do it all himself?! He’s doing all the great thinking! We’re lucky to have him. Thank you lord.


----------



## MSK357 (Sep 24, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Maybe MSK357 has already injected bleach and is not worried about Covid-19.


this comment shows how dumb you are, never said inject bleach.


----------



## Desert Hound (Sep 24, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Sad, US has 4% of the world's population but 20% of the deaths from covid-19.


*Counting deaths*
First of all, there are differences in how countries record Covid-19 deaths.

France and Germany, for example, have been including deaths in care homes in the headline numbers they produce every day.

But the daily figures for England referred only to deaths in hospitals until 29 April, when they started factoring in deaths in care homes as well.

*A further complication is that there is no accepted international standard for how you measure deaths, or their causes.*

Does somebody need to have been tested for coronavirus to count towards the statistics, or are the suspicions of a doctor enough?

Germany counts deaths in care homes only if people have tested positive for the virus. Belgium, on the other hand, includes any death in which a doctor suspects coronavirus was involved.

The UK's daily figures only count deaths when somebody has tested positive for the virus, but its weekly figures include suspected cases.

*Also, does the virus need to be the main cause of death, or does any mention on a death certificate count?*

Again, different countries do things differently. So, are you really comparing like with like?


----------



## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> What decade?  LMAO!  How about yesterday's?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My bad on not seeing the Sharpton thing. If you watched the 8 minute video of the cops with their knee on Flyod's neck as he cried for his mom because he knew he was dying, and you're still talking this way and thinking as you do, then everything you say is painted by a way of thinking that how others experience things doesn't matter and so we're not gonna get anywhere because you're not willing to listen. You don't know he would've killed someone that day, you're not God. Is this way of thinking based on the way you grew up or is this attitude something you picked up along the way and based or based on something that happened to you?  After the 8 minute video came up, BLM protests broke out around the world. The EPL has been taking a knee every since and were wearing BLM on their jerseys after the restart. I know you hate the NBA but a whole sports genre has taken this on. It is a universal human condition to be empathetic, but it can be learned.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> My bad on not seeing the Sharpton thing. If you watched the 8 minute video of the cops with their knee on Flyod's neck as he cried for his mom because he knew he was dying, and you're still talking this way and thinking as you do, then everything you say is painted by a way of thinking that how others experience things doesn't matter and so we're not gonna get anywhere because you're not willing to listen. You don't know he would've killed someone that day, you're not God. Is this way of thinking based on the way you grew up or is this attitude something you picked up along the way and based or based on something that happened to you?  After the 8 minute video came up, BLM protests broke out around the world. The EPL has been taking a knee every since and were wearing BLM on their jerseys after the restart. I know you hate the NBA but a whole sports genre has taken this on. It is a universal human condition to be empathetic, but it can be learned.


He cried for his mommy before they ever got him out of the vehicle.  He couldn't breathe because he had heart disease, half a dozen drugs in his system and the inability to cooperate with law enforcement.  Probably because he didn't want to go back to prison yet AGAIN.  Nobody is defending the cop, but defending Floyd is a disgrace.  You don't know that the cop killed him because you're not God.  I'm pretty sure of this, though... you don't die being restrained if you don't have to be restrained.  I'm not empathetic or sympathetic to criminals... nor will the BLM terrorists threaten me to be.

I hate the NBA because the league lacks diversity.  Lots of whining, criminals and children born out of wedlock, but most of them have little more than a high school education so I couldn't give a shit about what they say.  If you think athletes and actors/singers have "taken this on" for any other reason than dollars in their pockets, you need to think about the percentage of them that HAVEN'T because they know it's bullshit.  They wear arm bands and t-shirts because they have to.  They don't want more thugs standing over their dinner tables and threatening them to hold up a closed fist in "solidarity".  Drew Brees spoke for the silent majority.  Look how the PC police trashed him for being honest.


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## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> He cried for his mommy before they ever got him out of the vehicle.  He couldn't breathe because he had heart disease, half a dozen drugs in his system and the inability to cooperate with law enforcement.  Probably because he didn't want to go back to prison yet AGAIN.  Nobody is defending the cop, but defending Floyd is a disgrace.  You don't know that the cop killed him because you're not God.  I'm pretty sure of this, though... you don't die being restrained if you don't have to be restrained.  I'm not empathetic or sympathetic to criminals... nor will the BLM terrorists threaten me to be.
> 
> I hate the NBA because the league lacks diversity.  Lots of whining, criminals and children born out of wedlock, but most of them have little more than a high school education so I couldn't give a shit about what they say.  If you think athletes and actors/singers have "taken this on" for any other reason than dollars in their pockets, you need to think about the percentage of them that HAVEN'T because they know it's bullshit.  They wear arm bands and t-shirts because they have to.  They don't want more thugs standing over their dinner tables and threatening them to hold up a closed fist in "solidarity".  Drew Brees spoke for the silent majority.  Look how the PC police trashed him for being honest.


What am I missing, I thought Brees made a statement that he supported BLM and the right to peaceful protest? Or are you talking about what he said before tha?


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> What am I missing, I thought Brees made a statement that he supported BLM and the right to peaceful protest? Or are you talking about what he said before tha?


The original statement.  You know... the truth.  What he actually felt.  Then the man that has done more for New Orleans, than any other athlete in history, was slammed incessantly.  What a joke.


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## thelonggame (Sep 24, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> The original statement.  You know... the truth.  What he actually felt.  Then the man that has done more for New Orleans, than any other athlete in history, was slammed incessantly.  What a joke.


Oh, so when he said that he listened to his teammates and felt empathy for them and changed his statement, that was false?


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## Desert Hound (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Oh, so when he said that he listened to his teammates and felt empathy for them and changed his statement, that was false?


I go with his very first comment. 

He then took a lot of heat and came out with a comment that took the heat off of him. 

Which one do you think came from the heart? The first one when asked? Or the 2nd one when he was under immense pressure from teammates and various news organizations?


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## happy9 (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> The EPL has been taking a knee every since and were wearing BLM on their jerseys after the restart. I know you hate the NBA but a whole sports genre has taken this on. It is a universal human condition to be empathetic, but it can be learned.


The EPL has seen through the BS that the BLM organization represents and decided to part ways with.  They are a savvy group of owners.  I guess the idea of playing in front of crowds and hearing them boo proved to much. 









						Premier League drops Black Lives Matter badge from shirts for own campaign
					

Premier League clubs’ shirts will not carry the Black Lives Matter slogan in the coming season




					www.theguardian.com
				




I can't believe that anyone takes the NBA seriously anymore.  A more hypocritical sports league does not exist.  Where are Lebron's tears for all of the worker plights, imprisonment, torture, etc of the Chinese people that he thinks adore him?  I'm being tongue in cheek with this because Lebron probably has no idea, at least intellectually, what he's contributing to.  The NBA is a joke and I can't wait until they play in front of fans again.  I will surely never attend an NBA game again. And yes, I know it's a drop in the bucket, my dollars won't sink them, but many more will do the same.  What was the score of their last game??? I have no idea.


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## EOTL (Sep 24, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> He cried for his mommy before they ever got him out of the vehicle.  He couldn't breathe because he had heart disease, half a dozen drugs in his system and the inability to cooperate with law enforcement.  Probably because he didn't want to go back to prison yet AGAIN.  Nobody is defending the cop, but defending Floyd is a disgrace.  You don't know that the cop killed him because you're not God.  I'm pretty sure of this, though... you don't die being restrained if you don't have to be restrained.  I'm not empathetic or sympathetic to criminals... nor will the BLM terrorists threaten me to be.
> 
> I hate the NBA because the league lacks diversity.  Lots of whining, criminals and children born out of wedlock, but most of them have little more than a high school education so I couldn't give a shit about what they say.  If you think athletes and actors/singers have "taken this on" for any other reason than dollars in their pockets, you need to think about the percentage of them that HAVEN'T because they know it's bullshit.  They wear arm bands and t-shirts because they have to.  They don't want more thugs standing over their dinner tables and threatening them to hold up a closed fist in "solidarity".  Drew Brees spoke for the silent majority.  Look how the PC police trashed him for being honest.


Racist.


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## Desert Hound (Sep 24, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Racist.


That seems to be about the only word you are capable of using.

By the way you bet the house ECNL and other CA teams wouldn't be going to AZ due to covid. What happened? There are so many coming out we may have to call immigration  

You remember. Parents wouldn't do car rides, stay in hotels, etc.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

thelonggame said:


> Oh, so when he said that he listened to his teammates and felt empathy for them and changed his statement, that was false?


Why would he feel empathy for a bunch of rich, spoiled athletes?  Just stop... it's over.  The pity party is done.  Time for everyone to put on their accountability hats and live with the decisions they make.  When people like you start getting upset when an innocent child, like the one below, gets murdered for doing nothing wrong in his entire life, I'll listen.  Again... I have no sympathy for violent, career criminals.  None.  By the way, the 9-year old boy's name is Janari Ricks.  You know why you've never heard his name before?  Yeah... you know exactly why.  No news coverage... no marches... no "say his name" because nobody can get anything from his death.  Fucking disgusting.









						38 Juveniles Killed in Gun Violence in Chicago So Far This Year: Police
					

More than three dozen juveniles have been shot and killed in violence in Chicago so far this year, the city’s police superintendent revealed Monday. The heartbreaking total comes after a weekend that saw two additional juveniles killed, including a 9-year-old boy who became the unintended target...




					www.nbcchicago.com


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Sep 24, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Racist.


Come see me on the off topic thread, little lady.


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