# Tell me your team shouldn’t be in the ECNL…



## diamondcoach (Nov 14, 2022)

…Without telling me your team shouldn’t be in the ECNL


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## crush (Nov 14, 2022)

diamondcoach said:


> …Without telling me your team shouldn’t be in the ECNL


That's the team you pad your goals with. Forget hat trick's, this is Cinco Golaso's type stuff for a goal scorer. The system is watered down. The GDA was like this. 16-0, 6-0 is football scores man. This is futbol, right?


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## diamondcoach (Nov 14, 2022)

Or maybe this team…from the same conference (southeast). WTH?


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## The Big Lewandowski (Nov 14, 2022)

diamondcoach said:


> Or maybe this team…from the same conference (southeast). WTH?


This is all over ECNL. Every conference has the terrible teams. Watered down is an understatement. This will always be the case since ECNL is only out for the money. They will never make a true elite league like it was in the 90s and early 2000's. Money talks and it always will


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## crush (Nov 14, 2022)

The Big Lewandowski said:


> This is all over ECNL. Every conference has the terrible teams. Watered down is an understatement. This will always be the case since ECNL is only out for the money. They will never make a true elite league like it was in the 90s and early 2000's. Money talks and it always will


It's all about the customer and what the customer wants is their kids in college, period and end of story.


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## LouSag (Nov 14, 2022)

crush said:


> It's all about the customer and what the customer wants is their kids in college, period and end of story.


Case in point.  Phoenix Rising 06’s have a -58 goal differential after 12 games in the fall.  They drove out from Phoenix in early Sept to SoCal to lose 0-14 and 0-9 in league.  I feel sorry for those players and parents.  11 losses,  but they did tie Pats.  Clearly in the wrong league.  But those kids will get college looks in the showcases.  Money well spent?  No way.


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## crush (Nov 14, 2022)

LouSag said:


> Case in point.  Phoenix Rising 06’s have a -58 goal differential after 12 games in the fall.  They drove out from Phoenix in early Sept to SoCal to lose 0-14 and 0-9 in league.  I feel sorry for those players and parents.  11 losses,  but they did tie Pats.  Clearly in the wrong league.  But those kids will get college looks in the showcases.  Money well spent?  No way.


Football scores in futbol is no bueno. I will say it's a great time for the 06s from AZ to look at some of schools in Socal. I think 8-0 should be the final score posted, no matter what. It pains me to read 16-0 scores and then see little Susie Soccer scores 6 goals in the 16-0 blowout and also take over the ECNL individual scoring lead. If you go up 8-0, then the game should be called and you win. I would then get all the players on both teams together and get the penny's out and split the teams up evenly for another match & then e-vite all socal college coaches to come out and watch. I was harsh during that dumb GDA League because rich dad and mama bear TM found a way to get their kids 25% guaranteed starts and a waiver so their child could attend private high school and play high school soccer while the poor families in public school were not afforded the same options of cake and ice cream. 16-0 and 14-0 scores are tough to look at and is a shame.


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 14, 2022)

LouSag said:


> Case in point.  Phoenix Rising 06’s have a -58 goal differential after 12 games in the fall.  They drove out from Phoenix in early Sept to SoCal to lose 0-14 and 0-9 in league.  I feel sorry for those players and parents.  11 losses,  but they did tie Pats.  Clearly in the wrong league.  But those kids will get college looks in the showcases.  Money well spent?  No way.


As others have stated "elite" teams need someone to beat up on to pad their resumes. (Hence Closed Leagues)

It is what it is. Move along, nothing to see here.


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## Grace T. (Nov 14, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> As others have stated "elite" teams need someone to beat up on to pad their resumes. (Hence Closed Leagues)
> 
> It is what it is. Move along, nothing to see here.


The advantage the closed leagues have is "if you build it they will come".  You'll occasionally get these teams that get blown out (geography: being in the shadow of another big club or being in a smaller remote area plays a role sometimes), but it's the club, not the team, which joins the closed league.

On the boys side, the MLS Academy (not MLS Next) league is the only truly elite league, which is geared at producing professional players.  The girls will never have a true elite league (aimed at producing professional and USWNT players) until it does something similar which is kept small and professionally affiliated.  ECNL is just too vast to do that, and it's primarily (like MLS Next) a college recruitment mechanism.  Since the professional pathway is smaller for the girls than the boys, it probably means in SoCal a maximum of 1 elite team in Los Angeles and 1 in San Diego.

E


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Nov 14, 2022)

Noticed this for EA as well at the bottom of the table... -89 through 8 games is pretty bad...


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## Grace T. (Nov 14, 2022)

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> Noticed this for EA as well at the bottom of the table... -89 through 8 games is pretty bad...
> 
> View attachment 15056


You generally have the same issue at the top of the tables too in reverse.  This is true even when LAFC & LA Galaxy peel away into MLS (e.g. some of the strikers teams though even they aren't uniformly dominant).  GDs of 25+.  Look at 18 Golden State....in some of the division it's near the top, in some it's near the bottom.  Same with 19 TFA.  LA Surf isn't really representative: it has two teams in the EA.  SoCal Elite is new and the older teams are doing EA2 (probably get promoted next year).  It's the club, not the team, which earns it's place in a closed circuit.  Some teams for a variety of reasons (coaching/recruiting/particular birth year) may do worse than others...and then there's the geography factor which makes it harder for some.


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## Grace T. (Nov 14, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> You generally have the same issue at the top of the tables too in reverse.  This is true even when LAFC & LA Galaxy peel away into MLS (e.g. some of the strikers teams though even they aren't uniformly dominant).  GDs of 25+.  Look at 18 Golden State....in some of the division it's near the top, in some it's near the bottom.  Same with 19 TFA.  LA Surf isn't really representative: it has two teams in the EA.  SoCal Elite is new and the older teams are doing EA2 (probably get promoted next year).  It's the club, not the team, which earns it's place in a closed circuit.  Some teams for a variety of reasons (coaching/recruiting/particular birth year) may do worse than others...and then there's the geography factor which makes it harder for some.


p.s.  the alternative to a closed loop system is that you do pro/rel.  Pro/rel has the advantage of having some outsiders from not the usual suspects of big clubs get a chance to advance.  They may come together due to a particular coach, a group of friends, or some happy circumstances.  You also get to reward the teams for the individual performance, not the club.

The problem with that though is that it has a ton of distortions (which IMHO are just simply not worth it for youth soccer).  Primarily, because these clubs have to have teams in the elite leagues in order to remain competitive, it leads to the usual short cuts in development of players.  Secondly, it's particularly brutal on the midrange (2nd and 3rd teams like the ERCL, EA or NPL) players because in order to move up they have to shift clubs (since the clubs can't afford to let them go upwards since it will impact the pro/rel of the 2nd/3rd teams).  Third, it's completely unworkable if there's a professional academy structure built in there that is going to go around creating instability in the lower teams by picking the cream of the crop (there's already some of this with MLS Next which accounts for some of the variance in EA....to analyze you need to know what the needs were of the MLS team that particular birth year) and which also has to manage those lower level teams it doesn't really care about (which is probably why LAFC and Galaxy don't extend to lower level teams.


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## Surf Zombie (Nov 15, 2022)

diamondcoach said:


> …Without telling me your team shouldn’t be in the ECNL


That Jacksonville club has a very strong 2007 team. Made Champions league a year ago and I believe they made the final four at ECNL finals.  Weird there is that big of a variation in the same club.


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## RandomSoccerFan (Nov 16, 2022)

Yes, Jacksonville FC shows as the 5th strongest club (girls) in FL.  Here are their top teams by year/state ranking:

2013 (12th)
2012 (1st)
2011 (7th)
2010 (20th)
2009 (23rd)
2008 (5th)
2007 (2nd)
2006 (9th)
2005/2004 (28th)


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Nov 16, 2022)

Surf Zombie said:


> That Jacksonville club has a very strong 2007 team. Made Champions league a year ago and I believe they made the final four at ECNL finals.  Weird there is that big of a variation in the same club.


But not really that weird when you think about it.  Different coaches and pool of players, other things going on at other local clubs for that age group, etc.  

Really a good example of why the closed system is silly.  ECNL forcing a club to have a team at each age, regardless of their desire to not have one at a certain age group because of various reasons.  And the good ole Tudela or other small club that can't have their really good one or two teams join that age group and compete well...

When some of ya'll talk about clubs money grabbing, what exactly do you mean?  Are these clubs hoarding millions offshore?  Are the Directors and/or coaches bringing down 6-digit salaries?  It seems to me it's more about the leader's egos rather than what is best for US Soccer growth.


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## crush (Nov 16, 2022)

Soccer Dad & Ref said:


> *When some of ya'll talk about clubs money grabbing, what exactly do you mean?  Are these clubs hoarding millions offshore?  Are the Directors and/or coaches bringing down 6-digit salaries?  It seems to me it's more about the leader's egos rather than what is best for US Soccer growth.*


It's about ego and the money grab for a small few. Top Doc can make good coin and if you add the "extras" like privates and things that are only discussed behind closed doors, then it can go pretty high. I know some damn really good coaches who slept of the couch to get their start in coaching and lived on top roman for a year to become a great coach. I know amazing Doc who drive cheap car to coach and give back to the kids. So not all are in it to win it with a twofer.


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 16, 2022)

Soccer Dad & Ref said:


> When some of ya'll talk about clubs money grabbing, what exactly do you mean?  Are these clubs hoarding millions offshore?  Are the Directors and/or coaches bringing down 6-digit salaries?  It seems to me it's more about the leader's egos rather than what is best for US Soccer growth.


Not soccer but I know of a HS baseball coach that makes 60-80k salary from the school + 100k (tax free) doing "private coaching" sessions.

That may or may not seem like a lot of $$$ to you but it's a lot for a youth coach.

Also Presidents of soccer clubs make 250k easy. Since many are structured as non profits you can look up their 990 which shows operating margins and the Presidents (maybe others) salary.


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