# Thinking of making a move to an ECNL team for next year



## Chalklines (Oct 2, 2022)

What the title said. 

Things have been getting stale for my daughter in terms of competition in the Coast / DPL so its time to start looking for the next challenge. What's holding me back from a move is the politics. Its been a good long run with her current team and time for a new voice.

Can anyone give me an honest figure on how much extra ill need to pay the coach on the side for my DD to see the field? She's a defender, not sure if prices change for each position? (serious question) Its this a flat rate or percentage? Do I pick up hotels and room service for the coach at tournaments? In Vegas, do I send up one escort or two? Is there a magic number that keeps my kid on the field even if they make mistakes? Seems like everywhere I'm looking the coaches get younger and younger. Youth is very easy to manipulate. I'm a aware of the red flags from the start. Coaches talking to groups of parents having a good laugh and a beer. Individual conversations before games, new BMW's on a coaches salary in the parking lot etc. Its been known in the past the two clubs I'm looking at are run by the almighty dollar and the same parents are still there so my assumption is ill need to keep up with the Jones's monthly installments for my daughter to see the field.   

The helps appreciated. Please don't deny it happens. Its common knowledge in the ECNL landscape for girls more so then boys and I've talked with plenty parents who "contribute" to the coaches cause out on the greens. 

Just looking for some transparent pricing information to see if I can afford the move.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Oct 3, 2022)

I'm not denying that it happens but I'm sure it's rare exceptions.  Saying that ECNL players/families pay off coaches is an insult...the vast majority have earned spots/playing time through hard work over time.


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## Chalklines (Oct 3, 2022)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> I'm not denying that it happens but I'm sure it's rare exceptions.  Saying that ECNL players/families pay off coaches is an insult...the vast majority have earned spots/playing time through hard work over time.


Its not rare or an insult. It exists at every level of club sports across the nation. When you have money to throw around it comes with bragging rights. These contributors have pride and want you to know whos really in charge after a few drinks. Nothing feels better to the aristocracy then gloating over their victories. Its nothing new. The NCAA booster process has trickled down the ranks into the youth for AAU, USSSA, AYFL and ECNL for years. Some kids earn it for sure but for those with the means it much easier to pay for it. The only way to get better is to play and that comes at a price despite skill level. Just looking for some figures. Please don't be shy. Thanks to those who have sent me DM's already.


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## Sike (Oct 3, 2022)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> I'm not denying that it happens but I'm sure it's rare exceptions.  Saying that ECNL players/families pay off coaches is an insult...the vast majority have earned spots/playing time through hard work over time.


Agree completely. We suspected it with one family, but haven't otherwise seen it or even suspected it in our ~12 years of ECNL/DA/GA.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 3, 2022)

Since you seem serious here's some numbers I can think of...

Direct Pay to Play...
$50-$100 per hour for privates from your teams coach (may or may not be allowed by the club) 
$300-$500 per month to work with whatever super elite private training group the coach recommends for individual training (this is a workaround if direct privates aren't allowed by the club)

Indirect Pay to Play...
$100-$200 for camps put on by your club with your coach or the director overseeing (can happen 2-4x a year)
$100-$200 to play unofficially in local leagues / futsal. This might be parent setup or coach sets up through a parent (can happen 1-3x a year)
$100-$500 to get involved with the club golf tournament + get your coach in a foursome + smooze them for 3-4 hours strait. (1x per year)
$500-??? Private business sponsorship via a donation for the club or a specific event (this is how you throw $$$ at the club for your kid + write it off at the same time)
$20-$50 per parent per tournament to cover "food" (cough drinks cough) + a little something on the side at away tournaments for the coach.

Free Pay to Play...
Be the team parent + get all the gossip/info before anyone else + setup all the $$$ situations for the coach/club
Volunteer to work the booth at events or setup fields at 7am  

I'm sure there's lots more that I'm not listing. These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.


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## lafalafa (Oct 3, 2022)

Youth soccer get more expensive as you move up through the so called more "elite" league

Better coaches, fields, travel costs more so you either have to play for a club that's sponsors some of that, fund raise or have more control over or say in the team and or club  finances.

Payolla yeah happens in a indirect sort of way for example manager is doing some work so sometimes they get a player fee discount, travel or make the squad when there just a bubble player.

ECNL makes sense for the higher skilled player that has a big competitive drive to play and win.  For the top teams that make the post season it's a great fit for the others it's a huge commitment that some times works out or not.

Extra I dunno what is your total season spend now?


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## jojon (Oct 3, 2022)

Soccer performance is difficult to measure, even for trained coaches. You can see how national coaches are being criticized all the time for not selecting the "best" players. I think this is what happened in most high level youth teams, parents feel that their kids are the best and should be played maximum minutes. The boys/girls getting more minutes are playing worse than their kids thus raising up conspiracy theory.
My kids only play in flight 1 and even at this low level, every time my kids play less than 75% of the game, I feel that I want to move them to a different team/coach. I wish they just join competitive swimming (one of them still do). It is so easy and relaxing that performance can be measured by time only, never felt angry feeling toward the referee, coaches, organizers, club admin, etc. With soccer, I feel frustrated 90% of the time. On the flipside, my kids smile after every practice so I don't have the heart to stop them.


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## crush (Oct 3, 2022)

jojon said:


> Soccer performance is difficult to measure, even for trained coaches. You can see how national coaches are being criticized all the time for not selecting the "best" players. I think this is what happened in most high level youth teams, parents feel that their kids are the best and should be played maximum minutes. The boys/girls getting more minutes are playing worse than their kids thus raising up conspiracy theory.
> My kids only play in flight 1 and even at this low level, every time my kids play less than 75% of the game, I feel that I want to move them to a different team/coach. I wish they just join competitive swimming (one of them still do). It is so easy and relaxing that performance can be measured by time only, never felt angry feeling toward the referee, coaches, organizers, club admin, etc. With soccer, I feel frustrated 90% of the time. On the flipside, my kids smile after every practice so I don't have the heart to stop them.


I loved watching track in High School. Clock don't lie. My buddy dd was on a team and he was telling me how one game his dd would start and then another game the other kid would start. It went back and forth first few games and It was neck to neck and each kid brought a little something different to the game and to be honest, either one would be ok starter or be ready to come off the bench to be a spark plug. Well, my buddy told me the other dad took coach up on his privates and well, my buddy's kid came off the bench the rest of the year, including playoffs. His dd asked coach what she could do to start and the coach told her she needs to train more outside of just practice and take the game more serious. It was straight up honest. This does happen but it's hard to admit for many. No parent likes to see their kid ride the bench.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Oct 4, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Since you seem serious here's some numbers I can think of...
> 
> Direct Pay to Play...
> $50-$100 per hour for privates from your teams coach (may or may not be allowed by the club)
> ...


Free Pay to Play?  This is the dumbest stuff I have heard.  Anybody is free to volunteer...why don't you volunteer so that you can get be in all the $$$ situations for the club?  Oh yeah...because there really isn't any when you're a volunteer.  

Extra soccer outside of the team where coach is not involved?   How the heck is that pay to play if coach is not involved?  I organize extra soccer/league for my kid and anybody else that wants to play and I lose money every time.  Coach doesn't know about it, parents don't know about.  I just have parents that don't pay the split fees per game.  

The more I read this thread the more I realize that parents who complain about pay to play or preferential coach treatment are almost always parents who think their kid is better than what their coach may have thought.  This happens everyday in soccer and there doesn't have to be a conspiracy behind every time it happens.  If your kid gets cut focus on their development rather than complain.


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## Chalklines (Oct 4, 2022)

So really here's the deal and please be honest. Remember my pockets aren't deep coming off a school teaches salary so I'm really looking for a flat number $$$$$ of what ill need to spend. My inside trader information from the golf course has already told me that in one of the Clubs ill be looking at the followings being done by an individual(s) X.

-Pay all the coaches travel expense.
-Pay Club dues for at least 2 players on the team and travel expenses when necessary.
-Credit Card for the coach. Pay for gas and food to and from the facility.
-Extravagant coaches gifts.

Now I'm not able to compete anymore with is having multiple's in a club . My sons focus now is with Football. X is a team manager who has multiple kids in this club. Should I just look somewhere else? Just don't think my DD will ever see the field and get to play her primary position since its the same as the behind the scene managers kid.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 4, 2022)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Free Pay to Play?  This is the dumbest stuff I have heard.  Anybody is free to volunteer...why don't you volunteer so that you can get be in all the $$$ situations for the club?  Oh yeah...because there really isn't any when you're a volunteer.


You might not understand it but for many people time has value. "Free" has strings attached in that it takes up a lot of your time.



rainbow_unicorn said:


> Extra soccer outside of the team where coach is not involved?   How the heck is that pay to play if coach is not involved?  I organize extra soccer/league for my kid and anybody else that wants to play and I lose money every time.  Coach doesn't know about it, parents don't know about.  I just have parents that don't pay the split fees per game.


Coaches/Groups set it up so they get a "finders fee" or a percentage of the monthly for each kid they refer to the programs. I'm sorry that your groups don't make $$$ others do. 



rainbow_unicorn said:


> The more I read this thread the more I realize that parents who complain about pay to play or preferential coach treatment are almost always parents who think their kid is better than what their coach may have thought.  This happens everyday in soccer and there doesn't have to be a conspiracy behind every time it happens.  If your kid gets cut focus on their development rather than complain.


Nope, been through it all + what I relayed is what I've seen. Pay to Play is rarely overt. It's something that builds over time.


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## 120497235901835 (Oct 4, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Since you seem serious here's some numbers I can think of...
> 
> Direct Pay to Play...
> $50-$100 per hour for privates from your teams coach (may or may not be allowed by the club)
> ...


There is nothing wrong with this


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 4, 2022)

120497235901835 said:


> There is nothing wrong with this


Maybe, maybe not. I didn't define if it was bad or good. 

The thread starter wanted realistic costs of joining an ECNL team. I listed many of the Pay to Play costs we've run into over the last 8+ years.

Pay to Play = Gates that are opened by $$$ for a players development and/or playing time. (again not saying if they're good or bad)


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## tjinaz (Oct 4, 2022)

I have never encountered a parent actually slipping cash to a coach or bribing them in any way.  I have seen girls that had no business being on a team get selected as the parents business was a big sponsor and supported the team through use of facilities, offices, video gear, transport etc.  I have also seen coaches give preference to players that pay $$$ for private lessons with the same coach.  Think these are both pretty shady and don't think they happen at quality clubs.  At the top level clubs won't do this as the top players don't need to compensate for anything and would resent any player that didn't earn their spot.  Even the perception of this kills team chemistry and would hurt the program.


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## socalkdg (Oct 4, 2022)

What is the end game?  Daughters age? There are some good Discover/Premier teams that are less expensive and still have good coaches and your kid will improve. Good coach, liking soccer,  and improving is the most important thing for your kid.

ECNL does have advantages, and we almost moved a couple times.  You can also move for your final two seasons and play the game for a shorter period.  I did notice some players playing at ECNL that didn't seem to be up to speed.  By the way, one college my daughter was thinking of committing to has two freshman girls on the roster that are daughters of the head coach and assistant coach, so the cycle doesn't end.


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## lafalafa (Oct 4, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> So really here's the deal and please be honest. Remember my pockets aren't deep coming off a school teaches salary so I'm really looking for a flat number $$$$$ of what ill need to spend. My inside trader information from the golf course has already told me that in one of the Clubs ill be looking at the followings being done by an individual(s) X.
> 
> -Pay all the coaches travel expense.
> -Pay Club dues for at least 2 players on the team and travel expenses when necessary.
> ...


Pay to play for ECNL when you total everything ranges from 6k and beyond with travel being a major expense.   Let's say between the club and team fees your at 4k with another 2k+ for travel.

When our daughter played ECNL some of the east or Midwest coast showcase/playoff  trips would run between 20-30k for the whole team including air, buses, hotel 6x, food, etc for the 20-22 or so players so it was expensive.  Imagine some of the players paid thousands and hardly got on the field


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## Code (Oct 4, 2022)

It's interesting that none of the discussion on paying for extra training has mentioned the increased knowledge, skills, and abilities the players gain putting in extra work.  Maybe those players whose parents are "paying to play", are actually getting more playing time because of the increase in abilities, and not because of the money exchange.  I'm pretty sure the players are not at training taking naps.  I have a feeling that the people who always call out pay to play, are not actually doing anything to get in extra training.  Don't have the money, no problem, watch some quality you tube videos, take your ass outside and help your player train.  Put in that sweat investment.  As far as the OP goes, for a reasonable fee I'll give you all the Intel on how to get on an ECNL team.‍♂


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## rainbow_unicorn (Oct 4, 2022)

Coaches should not be allowed to have paid private training for their own team players...that's a conflict of interest.


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## crush (Oct 4, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Maybe, maybe not. I didn't define if it was bad or good.
> 
> The thread starter wanted realistic costs of joining an ECNL team. I listed many of the Pay to Play costs we've run into over the last 8+ years.
> 
> Pay to Play = Gates that are opened by $$$ for a players development and/or playing time. (again not saying if they're good or bad)


This is not a good or bad but more of a "can I compete in this pay to play" sport and find my dd minutes and play time.


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## crush (Oct 4, 2022)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Coaches should not be allowed to have paid private training for their own team players...that's a conflict of interest.


100%. Code thinks other wise but that's all cool. I think it looks really really bad when the players whose dad is paying for extra training is not better then the player who does track and other social activities but can still ball, but sits because of the pay to play parents and the extra hard work this player is willing to put in. Plus, this player goes to SAT training and already has a 4.5 GPA. Plus, this dad donates every year to the clubs annual fund raiser and sponsors one of the forwards club dues because their parents are dirt poor. That is how you get a position for your dd and starts for your kid. US SOCCER had parents pay bank for their travel league and all those parents were rewarded with 25% Starts for their child. That is called, "Pay so my kid can start and play" which is way better then just getting minutes, moo  The whole thing is a big hot mess except for a small % of happy parents. OP is looking for parents to come clean. This is what he found on the golf course....lol.


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## SoccerEnvy (Oct 4, 2022)

Funnynot funny post. I  don't think bribing coaches and the club with straight cash is as common as you elude.  But as others have already mentioned, there are more subtle, ?socially acceptable ways of getting preferential treatment for your child.  ie: form a relationship of any kind with the coach, buy them lunch at tournaments, pay them for one on one trainings (not allowed at some clubs for good reason), drink at tournaments with the coach and tell them gossip, make a large donation to the club.  What also works?  having a player that is highly skilled and dedicated, being respectful, volunteering when needed, and being a great member of the team.  The realitity is, and I hate to break it to you, and I apologize because it sounds insulting to you without knowing you.  You likely do not have a skilled player if you think you need to do this.  This really only works for situations where you are trying to "buy" your way onto a top team and your child is on the "bubble" or there are two players that it is a toss up who will start and this gives your child an advantage.  Also, at a certain point, the player usually falls off the bench, so to say, and gets cut from the team because it is obvious that your player is not keeping up. My advice to you is if you feel like you need to bribe your way onto a team, then you should find a team that fits your daughter's skill level. I'm pretty sure you already know this though.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 4, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> So really here's the deal and please be honest. Remember my pockets aren't deep coming off a school teaches salary so I'm really looking for a flat number $$$$$ of what ill need to spend. My inside trader information from the golf course has already told me that in one of the Clubs ill be looking at the followings being done by an individual(s) X.
> 
> -Pay all the coaches travel expense.
> -Pay Club dues for at least 2 players on the team and travel expenses when necessary.
> ...


you forgot the free vacation for the coach and family for a week.  Free $500 monthly gas card and always Starbucks before every game.

On a more serious note, $10k per year will cover all cost. It could be more depending on how often the team travels out of state and how many from your family go.


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## oh canada (Oct 5, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> What the title said.
> 
> Things have been getting stale for my daughter in terms of competition in the Coast / DPL so its time to start looking for the next challenge. What's holding me back from a move is the politics. Its been a good long run with her current team and time for a new voice.
> 
> ...


+ $500 to $1000/yr if the soccer club has an annual Gala fundraiser. High correlation between parents that attend-donate and favorable treatment of their kid

On its face, events like these create a clear conflict of interest, but clubs don't care. As the NWSL report confirmed, so much wrong with youth club soccer.


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## Willy Falcon (Oct 5, 2022)

I’d say $8k-$10k range. Maybe less is if the travel is limited. But if you’re taking the whole family to all travel games/showcases and choose to fly you’ll be north of $10k when you factor in travel/lodging/food expenses.

Buyer beware. Not all ECNL programs are good or worth the $$$. Lots of bad coaches out there that are solely there for the money and mail in training and development. Lots of politics as well.


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## Simisoccerfan (Oct 5, 2022)

This thread is hilarious and you are all a bunch of idiots for taking it as a serious post.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 5, 2022)

Simisoccerfan said:


> This thread is hilarious and you are all a bunch of idiots for taking it as a serious post.


I didn’t that’s why I said don’t forget the $500 gas card per month.   Would be a cool perk. Lol


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## Chalklines (Oct 6, 2022)

Simisoccerfan said:


> This thread is hilarious and you are all a bunch of idiots for taking it as a serious post.


Nope its serious and happening.

Just don't want to make a move for my DD to warm the bench because of politics. With the DM's I've been getting its clear that I've struck a chord with those who know exactly what team and age group I'm talking about.

I've also been asked to delete this thread for an undisclosed amount of money so I don't reveal the coach and parents behind this disgusting act. Good thing is I'll be in SD this weekend for a recruiting trip at Snapdragon. Should have a chance to find my way over to watch and observe a few teams during the ECNL Showcase. Will be nice to see what some coaches do before after and during games.


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## soccersc (Oct 6, 2022)

Simisoccerfan said:


> This thread is hilarious and you are all a bunch of idiots for taking it as a serious post.


You know what does happen that I think is absolutely ridiculous...is that clubs allow coaches to give privates to players on their team. that for sure happens, so maybe not a direct payment to the coach, but it's pretty much the same thing...and those players always somehow find more playing time, coincidence?


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## crush (Oct 6, 2022)

soccersc said:


> You know what does happen that I think is absolutely ridiculous...is that clubs allow coaches to give privates to players on their team. that for sure happens, so maybe not a direct payment to the coach, but it's pretty much the same thing...and those players always somehow find more playing time, coincidence?


The last 6 years many youth soccer players were sold and told to be full time soccer players and put in the extra "training" it takes to be the best, besides the three days a week already committed to 10 months out of the year. Plus, each player needs to be able to handle the yelling from some of the top coaches. It's par for the course as a youth to beat out the best. The best used to play other sports as well and played high school soccer. However, the real best players became the one's who were willing to pay "extra" to make their kid the best. Extra flying, extra hotels, extra eating out and extra gasoline. It was, "Extra Extra, Read All About It." Girls youth soccer will now be run by the men of US Soccer. I do think some players get better with the extra privates with the head coach and the Doc, but it sure rubs other parents wrong who with can't afford the "extra" couple grand and the 'extra" time it takes to do the "extra" workouts to make that player "extra" better. Who gives more beside dads money? The dd time is ripped from her youth and she is all in soccer 24/7 and 365. The top top players of the girls soccer pyramid just were told that abuse was systematic and it ALL started when they were in their youth. Parents on here are like, "I might know of one dad paying a little "extra" for play time but no one else."


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## Chalklines (Oct 6, 2022)

crush said:


> The last 6 years many youth soccer players were sold and told to be full time soccer players and put in the extra "training" it takes to be the best, besides the three days a week already committed to 10 months out of the year. Plus, each player needs to be able to handle the yelling from some of the top coaches. It's par for the course as a youth to beat out the best. The best used to play other sports as well and played high school soccer. However, the real best players became the one's who were willing to pay "extra" to make their kid the best. Extra flying, extra hotels, extra eating out and extra gasoline. It was, "Extra Extra, Read All About It." Girls youth soccer will now be run by the men of US Soccer. I do think some players get better with the extra privates with the head coach and the Doc, but it sure rubs other parents wrong who with can't afford the "extra" couple grand and the 'extra" time it takes to do the "extra" workouts to make that player "extra" better. Who gives more beside dads money? The dd time is ripped from her youth and she is all in soccer 24/7 and 365. The top top players of the girls soccer pyramid just were told that abuse was systematic and it ALL started when they were in their youth. Parents on here are like, "I might know of one dad paying a little "extra" for play time but no one else."


There's one if not many on every team. Even my current club.

Where does it stop? 

Privates multiple times a week with the coach, futsal on the weekends, beach soccer training, speed and agility, dinners with the coach, private video sessions with the coach, golf tournament donations.............What gets me are the ones behind the scenes that dictate the starters, positions and playing time. They form their little group off the field and have their kids do the same on the field. You know, the late night texts and calls talking about the line-up. Waiting for the coach in the shadows. We have all seen it done. We all know it exists at the higher levels of play. Flight one and ECNL almost ALWAYS. Their kids never come off the pitch when the better ones sit on the bench watching the coach congratulate mistake after mistake to keep cashing that extra check. Coach will always over look hard work and effort when the donations keep coming in and that's my worry.


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## crush (Oct 6, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> There's one if not many on every team. Even my current club.
> 
> Where does it stop?
> 
> Privates multiple times a week with the coach, futsal on the weekends, beach soccer training, speed and agility, dinners with the coach, private video sessions with the coach, golf tournament donations.............What gets me are the ones behind the scenes that dictate the starters, positions and playing time. They form their little group off the field and have their kids do the same on the field. You know, the late night texts and calls talking about the line-up. Waiting for the coach in the shadows. We have all seen it done. We all know it exists at the higher levels of play. Flight one and ECNL almost ALWAYS. Their kids never come off the pitch when the better ones sit on the bench watching the coach congratulate mistake after mistake to keep cashing that extra check. Coach will always over look hard work and effort when the donations keep coming in and that's my worry.


Remember, "Outside The Line?" I think you should start a podcast, "Inside The Chalklines"


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## oh canada (Oct 6, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> What gets me are the ones behind the scenes that dictate the starters, positions and playing time. They form their little group off the field and have their kids do the same on the field. You know, the late night texts and calls talking about the line-up. Waiting for the coach in the shadows.


often the team manager and that's one of the reasons they volunteered


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 6, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> There's one if not many on every team. Even my current club.
> 
> Where does it stop?
> 
> Privates multiple times a week with the coach, futsal on the weekends, beach soccer training, speed and agility, dinners with the coach, private video sessions with the coach, golf tournament donations.............What gets me are the ones behind the scenes that dictate the starters, positions and playing time. They form their little group off the field and have their kids do the same on the field. You know, the late night texts and calls talking about the line-up. Waiting for the coach in the shadows. We have all seen it done. We all know it exists at the higher levels of play. Flight one and ECNL almost ALWAYS. Their kids never come off the pitch when the better ones sit on the bench watching the coach congratulate mistake after mistake to keep cashing that extra check. Coach will always over look hard work and effort when the donations keep coming in and that's my worry.


The one thing that I've seen that stops a lot of this is if the team isn't winning because of all the nonsense + the club is clamping down on the coaches performance/record. 

Unfortunately coaches are hard to find + in demand so often clubs look the other way to keep the player $$$ rolling in.


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## crush (Oct 6, 2022)

oh canada said:


> often the team manager and that's one of the reasons they volunteered


Some TMs have really good players and great kids and not all about winning a spot on the team by working a part time job for free. TMs also can 100% help with recruiting and finding out what parents can pay to play and who is poor but has a dd that can score. The TM can make a teams success so I believe it's one of the top spots to get with certain pay to play coaches. Great coaches just need a fair and loving TM that helps everyone and is not looking for the "wink wink" if you know what I mean. I had good Tms and nasty ones over all the years. it all depends. Buyer beware is all I can say. One TM I knew loved to hand out the fliers and talk it up with the coaches and be in the know it all of the goings on with the recruiting. Super cool dad  Some TMs were spies for the coach and gossipers and that pissed me off but oh well, it's water under the bridge but something I would recommend to end some day and just have a club TM and not a parent who has a kid trying to earn a spot and minutes on the field.


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## Chalklines (Oct 6, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> The one thing that I've seen that stops a lot of this is if the team isn't winning because of all the nonsense + the club is clamping down on the coaches performance/record.
> 
> Unfortunately coaches are hard to find + in demand so often clubs look the other way to keep the player $$$ rolling in.


The problem's when its a winning team and the corruptions been deep rooted for years. You'll need join them and accept what's going on or risk being an outcast that gets pushed out the door. Your child will not be accepted onto the team if they are better then the starters or better then any of the kids whos parents are paying the coaches way.


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## diamondcoach (Oct 6, 2022)

If your daughter is bored on her current team, then the ECNL or GA is easily your best bet. No idea about what’s happening on the side with pay to play etc. No doubt it happens, I just haven’t witnessed it.

My oldest started club in the CSL, and after a couple of years needed to be challenged. So she tried out and made an ECNL team. She became a starter within a month or two, the team was mediocre at first and eventually qualified for champions league. But, even with that she still felt the desire to be surrounded by better players. So, we moved to a new club/team for her final year of ECNL.

if your daughter is an above average player, she needs to go to the ECNL or GA simply so she can get the exposure and play in front of college coaches. The better the team the more exposure she will get.

But, bottom line, it’s expensive. Last year, my older daughter’s team played in three showcases; two in Phoenix and one in New Jersey. We then travel to Seattle for eight days for the ECNL playoffs. And the travel is what makes it so expensive. As we easily spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $15,000 last year. I teach and my wife is a nurse. So it’s not like we’re rolling in dough.

Playing at that level will certainly help your daughter get to where she wants to be… Playing in college. My daughters U19 team has 23 rostered players (two are out for the season with ACL injuries)…. but all 23 have received offers and committed to D1 programs.


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Oct 6, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> When our daughter played ECNL some of the east or Midwest coast showcase/playoff trips would run between 20-30k for the whole team including air, buses, hotel 6x, food, etc for the 20-22 or so players so it was expensive.  Imagine some of the players paid thousands and hardly got on the field


Ugh that is so expensive. I recently read an article somewhere about youth soccer in Spain and how they just play local. Even like the Barcelona youth, they mostly play local non La Liga youth teams. Is American soccer SO advanced that we need kids traveling across the continent for "quality games"?

Maybe it won't work for other areas of the country, but surely in SoCal, we can keep it local and still have kids compete against other kids their level??


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## Woodwork (Oct 6, 2022)

A lot of replies to a joke post with grain (a silo) of truth.  I personally have witnessed an experienced ECNL coach completely tank a team (to where it lost league games by more than 10 goals) in order to satiate a parent who had multiple kids paying full price to the club.

It is the Maslow heirarchy of club needs:

Money first

Then winning if you have money

Then development if you have your money and are winning already


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## lafalafa (Oct 6, 2022)

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> Ugh that is so expensive. I recently read an article somewhere about youth soccer in Spain and how they just play local. Even like the Barcelona youth, they mostly play local non La Liga youth teams. Is American soccer SO advanced that we need kids traveling across the continent for "quality games"?
> 
> Maybe it won't work for other areas of the country, but surely in SoCal, we can keep it local and still have kids compete against other kids their level??


Yes true but when there several different so called "elite" leagues" that all travel so the genie is out of bottle and it's nearly impossible to put back in.

For Socal 80/20 rules: 80% should be fine with local play and the real elite 20% would need to venture regionally to play better comp but what we have is upside down with > 50% Traveling to play so travel soccer ends up being only for certain social economic groups.


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## crush (Oct 6, 2022)

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> Ugh that is so expensive. I recently read an article somewhere about youth soccer in Spain and how they just play local. Even like the Barcelona youth, they mostly play local non La Liga youth teams. Is American soccer SO advanced that we need kids traveling across the continent for "quality games"?
> 
> Maybe it won't work for other areas of the country, but surely in SoCal, we can keep it local and still have kids compete against other kids their level??


"Stay Local & Play Local" is my motto and 100% my recommendation after learning the last 11 years. In SoCal, we have no reason to travel except for the fact a few dads saw a biz opportunity in travel soccer and some love to travel and play golf and watch dd play top elite level soccer. The travel league makes soccer super expensive for a real family of four that will go into debt to help dd achieve goals and basically kicking out the poor kids 100% and their families to participate. Please don't tell me to just send your kid on da plane and let the soccer family take care of your dd on the road all alone. We now know girls soccer had ((has)) a systematic abuse problem, from yelling to sexual abuse and everything in between. It's 100% a fact and it starts at the youth level. Don't tell me it stopped long ago at the youth level somehow and it;s just up at the top of the soccer food chain, where the top pros have been abused. Stay local for the girls well being and if some top club from New Your wants to make trip to Socal to play the best, so be it. Socal should stay home to heal from all the abuse and just let the girls have some fun and some happiness  Other teams and players would want to come to SoCal and experience the beautiful weather and amazing soccer competition. We were told the world was watching and girls needed to be developed and trained like the men so they needed this new travel league and 100% full time commitment.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Oct 6, 2022)

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> Ugh that is so expensive. I recently read an article somewhere about youth soccer in Spain and how they just play local. Even like the Barcelona youth, they mostly play local non La Liga youth teams. Is American soccer SO advanced that we need kids traveling across the continent for "quality games"?
> 
> Maybe it won't work for other areas of the country, but surely in SoCal, we can keep it local and still have kids compete against other kids their level??


Geographically the US is 20x larger than Spain.  Olders traveling across the country for showcases is to allow players to play in front of colleges/scouts in other parts of the US...not because we do not have enough good teams to play against in our region.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Oct 6, 2022)

oh canada said:


> often the team manager and that's one of the reasons they volunteered


I'm a team manager and I can't wait to hand off the job after this season.  I suggest you volunteer to be a team manager so that you can see firsthand how TM's do not have a say in personnel decisions (at least at my club).  If your club/coach is influenced by whiny parents then it's probably best to find a new club where that isn't an issue.


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## lafalafa (Oct 6, 2022)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Geographically the US is 20x larger than Spain.  Olders traveling across the country for showcases is to allow players to play in front of colleges/scouts in other parts of the US...not because we do not have enough good teams to play against in our region.


I dunno with all the video footage & streaming now my player and several on his team where recruited by several organizations from other areas that didn't attend live or make events.

They may have been watching previously or also taking with coaches but a standout player can get plenty of offers or interest without traveling cross country.


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## crush (Oct 6, 2022)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> I'm a team manager and I can't wait to hand off the job after this season.  I suggest you volunteer to be a team manager so that you can see firsthand how TM's do not have a say in personnel decisions (at least at my club).  If your club/coach is influenced by whiny parents then it's probably best to find a new club where that isn't an issue.


TM should never call a parent a "whiny" parent. Their lies the problem. Most coaches hide behind folks like you rainbow unicorn. I also agree 100% TMs have no say. They do what their told and say what their told to say.


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## crush (Oct 6, 2022)

lafalafa said:


> I dunno with all the video footage & streaming now my player and several on his team where recruited by several organizations from other areas that didn't attend live or make events.
> 
> They may have been watching previously or also taking with coaches but a standout player can get plenty of offers or interest without traveling cross country.


My pals dd is playing top D1 and never played in a travel league. She got great grades and sent her High School video highlight and GPA with SAT score and she is playing soccer and going to college for free and did her parents saved over at least $50K for not doing the travel league. GK and stayed local to play local save thousands.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 6, 2022)

crush said:


> My pals dd is playing top D1 and never played in a travel league. She got great grades and sent her High School video highlight and GPA with SAT score and she is playing soccer and going to college for free and did her parents saved over at least $50K for not doing the travel league. GK and stayed local to play local save thousands.


I do agree that in Socal we should not have to travel (very far) to play games. There's enough local clubs/teams to make everyone happy. 

However I don't mind the travel + other than some of the numbnut parents + ridiculous drama.


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Oct 9, 2022)

How do you explain the top ranked teams that are stacked?

A club isn’t going to last long if it allowed this to occur for too long. I think the poster nailed it that spoke about a lot of people’s inability to gauge talent. Likely the complainers are the ones that swear their little angel is the best player and the only reason that little bitch stole her playing time is because her parents bribed the coach.

I’m not saying it hasn’t happened, but it’s not endemic nor prevalent.

I agree about the putting in extra time concept and the coach seeing the results of it.To avoid the appearance of conflicts, the coach shouldn’t be the one making a penny off of it.


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## Chalklines (Oct 30, 2022)

What does it mean when the club president's a team manager or a director comes in to coach a team?

Is that a major red flag parents are problems or does it mean its going to cost even more to see the field?


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## crush (Oct 30, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> What does it mean when the club president's a team manager or a director comes in to coach a team?
> 
> Is that a major red flag parents are problems or does it mean its going to cost even more to see the field?


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## Jamisfoes (Oct 30, 2022)

If you are based in socal, which one has more traveling/driving/flying, ECNL or MLSNext?


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## Conflicted99 (Oct 31, 2022)

FWIW, we experienced a dramatic shift in the Pay-to-Play scenario when a new ECNL Director / Coach replaced our ECNL coach earlier this year. As I understand it, for as long as anyone can remember, our club had a strict policy (likely not written but certainly enforced) that coaches could not offer private paid training to their own players. That all changed with the departure of our coach and the incoming replacement director/coach. Within a month of joining, parents of all three teams being coached started receiving text messages about "additional technical training" offered by the coach at a flat rate of "$40 CASH" per session regardless of how many players attended. The text messages and paid sessions have continued twice a week since August. The text messages read, "I have had some inquires about additional sessions..." and "In a couple of sessions I can already see an immediate improvement in passing, touch and technical proficiency." The club's ECNL teams all practice 3 days a week. It would seem that the technical aspects of the game could be covered in those sessions. Instead, the normal practices are spent on fitness (running) and unsupervised scrimmages. Based on playing time and ability, it is abundantly clear that the players who are attending the private paid sessions are getting a disproportionate amount of playing time!

100 % agree- Coaches should not be allowed to have paid private training for their own team players...that's a conflict of interest.


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## crush (Oct 31, 2022)

Conflicted99 said:


> FWIW, we experienced a dramatic shift in the Pay-to-Play scenario when a new ECNL Director / Coach replaced our ECNL coach earlier this year. As I understand it, for as long as anyone can remember, our club had a strict policy (likely not written but certainly enforced) that coaches could not offer private paid training to their own players. That all changed with the departure of our coach and the incoming replacement director/coach. Within a month of joining, parents of all three teams being coached started receiving text messages about "additional technical training" offered by the coach at a flat rate of "$40 CASH" per session regardless of how many players attended. The text messages and paid sessions have continued twice a week since August. The text messages read, "I have had some inquires about additional sessions..." and "In a couple of sessions I can already see an immediate improvement in passing, touch and technical proficiency." The club's ECNL teams all practice 3 days a week. It would seem that the technical aspects of the game could be covered in those sessions. Instead, the normal practices are spent on fitness (running) and unsupervised scrimmages. Based on playing time and ability, it is abundantly clear that the players who are attending the private paid sessions are getting a disproportionate amount of playing time!
> 
> 100 % agree- Coaches should not be allowed to have paid private training for their own team players...that's a conflict of interest.


Welcome to how one gets dd in the game. Not all Docs do this so I dont want to hurt anyones ego or trigger a coach or papa bear. Its a fact that this is going on and has been going on. I saw it with my eyes. 3 days is plenty to develope players without conflicts of interst and dad brown nosing with his money. I hope this gets dealt with. Its so unfair. Good luck to your player


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 31, 2022)

Conflicted99 said:


> FWIW, we experienced a dramatic shift in the Pay-to-Play scenario when a new ECNL Director / Coach replaced our ECNL coach earlier this year. As I understand it, for as long as anyone can remember, our club had a strict policy (likely not written but certainly enforced) that coaches could not offer private paid training to their own players. That all changed with the departure of our coach and the incoming replacement director/coach. Within a month of joining, parents of all three teams being coached started receiving text messages about "additional technical training" offered by the coach at a flat rate of "$40 CASH" per session regardless of how many players attended. The text messages and paid sessions have continued twice a week since August. The text messages read, "I have had some inquires about additional sessions..." and "In a couple of sessions I can already see an immediate improvement in passing, touch and technical proficiency." The club's ECNL teams all practice 3 days a week. It would seem that the technical aspects of the game could be covered in those sessions. Instead, the normal practices are spent on fitness (running) and unsupervised scrimmages. Based on playing time and ability, it is abundantly clear that the players who are attending the private paid sessions are getting a disproportionate amount of playing time!
> 
> 100 % agree- Coaches should not be allowed to have paid private training for their own team players...that's a conflict of interest.


Lived through the exact situation for 2+ seasons. Add in one additional wrinkle. Not all parents were invited to private sessions with the coach. This was done to make those involved player and parent feel more special but it was also a way to signal to certain players/parents that you're on the way off the team which both perpetuated + reinforced the privates.

We did a couple of the sessions with the coach + decided that the pay to play level wasn't what we're interested in. After we started shopping around to other private type coaches and found another person outside of the team/club that was a much better fit and are still working with them to this day.

The good of privates with your coach...
- The players involved did improve
- The coach was able to focus on 3-4 players vs 15+

The bad of privates with your coach...
- Who starts and playtime will always be questioned
- The coach has too much power/leverage over players


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## Conflicted99 (Oct 31, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Lived through the exact situation for 2+ seasons. Add in one additional wrinkle. Not all parents were invited to private sessions with the coach. This was done to make those involved player and parent feel more special but it was also a way to signal to certain players/parents that you're on the way off the team which both perpetuated + reinforced the privates.
> 
> We did a couple of the sessions with the coach + decided that the pay to play level wasn't what we're interested in. After we started shopping around to other private type coaches and found another person outside of the team/club that was a much better fit and are still working with them to this day.
> 
> ...


As I understand it, when certain parents of one of the teams complained about the paid private sessions, they were removed from the group text by the coach. Not surprisingly, the compliant (read: non-complaining) parents continued to receive the twice weekly texts to attend the private sessions. The end result was the departure of the TM and child - a standout player on that team.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 31, 2022)

Conflicted99 said:


> As I understand it, when certain parents of one of the teams complained about the paid private sessions, they were removed from the group text by the coach. Not surprisingly, the compliant (read: non-complaining) parents continued to receive the twice weekly texts to attend the private sessions. The end result was the departure of the TM and child - a standout player on that team.


Pretty standard response (player leaving) when there's perceived favoritism especially if it's because the coach is running privates with their team.

Almost forgot to mention. The team has to be winning for the coach doing privates with their players to work. This is because nobody wants to pay extra to learn from a coach that loses every week.

One last thing. Once the word is out that a coach is coin operated + has a winning team + is involved in whatever league is considered the best it will attract the worst type of parents. Ones that could care less about the club or other players on the team + will pay whatever it takes to give their kids minutes. As soon as that coach leaves or the players age out + they'll leave. (unless they have a guarantee that the new coach is coin operated as well).


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## crush (Oct 31, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Pretty standard response (player leaving) when there's perceived favoritism especially if it's because the coach is running privates with their team.
> 
> Almost forgot to mention. The team has to be winning for the coach doing privates with their players to work. This is because nobody wants to pay extra to learn from a coach that loses every week.
> 
> One last thing. Once the word is out that a coach is coin operated + has a winning team + is involved in whatever league is considered the best it will attract the worst type of parents. Ones that could care less about the club or other players on the team + will pay whatever it takes to give their kids minutes. As soon as that coach leaves or the players age out + they'll leave. (unless they have a guarantee that the new coach is coin operated as well).


Oh, one last thang. The Doc/Coach who offers cash privates, usually has the connection at the next level as well and we know what all these pay to play parents want. Paying extra gets you his recommendation. If you complain and speak up, well then your going to get bad marks for not willing to pay to play in order for dd to get to the mecca of girls soccer.


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## Chalklines (Nov 18, 2022)

Just a comical follow up.

Contacted the two closest ECNL coaches near me to check out some team training. On my first stop guess what? My golfing pals were the only parents shooting the shit with the coach before practice.


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 18, 2022)

Chalklines said:


> Just a comical follow up.
> 
> Contacted the two closest ECNL coaches near me to check out some team training. On my first stop guess what? My golfing pals were the only parents shooting the shit with the coach before practice.


Sounds like you have an in + they can intro you to the coach if you'd like to go forward with that team.

I wouldnt necessarily be concerned that 2 parents were buddies with the coach. But I would wonder why they're the only ones. Is the team full of drop and go parents? Are the other parents so fed up with the coach that they're shopping around + this is why they're not chatting? 

Different coaches have different styles of interacting with players/parents. Finding one that syncs with your expectations will make eveyone much happier.


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## WonderWoman (Dec 2, 2022)

It's a conflict for a coach to do privates with their  players but it happens all the time and it does makes a difference in getting more playing time. Sad but true.  Good for players that genuinely want to work hard to get better.


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## flynight2 (Dec 3, 2022)

The only way to get on the team is to pay your way onto it.


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## CoachReed68 (Dec 3, 2022)

WonderWoman said:


> It's a conflict for a coach to do privates with their  players but it happens all the time and it does makes a difference in getting more playing time. Sad but true.  Good for players that genuinely want to work hard to get better.



I do privates for my team players, but charge zero.  Sometimes I combine non-team players who pay with the team players during the private/small group sessions.  I do agree that it is a conflict of interest, and just shady, to charge your own team players extra money.


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## Carlsbad7 (Dec 4, 2022)

CoachReed68 said:


> I do privates for my team players, but charge zero.  Sometimes I combine non-team players who pay with the team players during the private/small group sessions.  I do agree that it is a conflict of interest, and just shady, to charge your own team players extra money.


When I had to deal with the coach doing privates with their players I honestly feel that they were trying to make players better but at the same time making extra $$$ on the side.

Initially I dont believe the privates determined starts or minutes. But over time the parents started grouping together + not attending if one in the group didnt start. Also before and after sessions parents were in the coaches face telling him how wonderful he was/is. Over time they wore the coach down with $$$ and compliments.

In the end 50% of the privates parents left the team when they aged out + the new coach made it clear that privates with the coach wouldnt happen anymore. Is that a normal level attrition? Dont really know. But I do know that privates with players caused all kinds of problems with parents.


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## crush (Dec 4, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> When I had to deal with the coach doing privates with their players I honestly feel that they were trying to make players better but at the same time making extra $$$ on the side.
> 
> Initially I dont believe the privates determined starts or minutes. But over time the parents started grouping together + not attending if one in the group didnt start. Also before and after sessions parents were in the coaches face telling him how wonderful he was/is. Over time they wore the coach down with $$$ and compliments.
> 
> In the end 50% of the privates parents left the team when they aged out + the new coach made it clear that privates with the coach wouldn't happen anymore. Is that a normal level attrition? Don't really know. But I do know that privates with players caused all kinds of problems with parents.


If you want to be your best, you need to train with the best and by the best private trainer out there and that could be the the coach as well. If you want to beat out the rest of the best on da team & make sure you start all the time or at least start 25% of the time, well, you need to pay a little extra, for the extra training to guarantee the play time. I know one of the best Coaches in the game that is the best with the trifecta for coaching youth soccer. Club fees/Per Diem (Unlimited Roster Spots) and Private Training Revenue. I have no problem with it now by the way. It's out in the open for all to see and within the rules of the game. I hated it because I had no extra $$$ to play,  pay to play and my kid was super small, puny and was never going to grow up to be a top player in Socal. She was all dried up by the time she was 13. Good luck you guys with your player(s).


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## CoachReed68 (Dec 12, 2022)

CoachReed68 said:


> I do privates for my team players, but charge zero.  Sometimes I combine non-team players who pay with the team players during the private/small group sessions.  I do agree that it is a conflict of interest, and just shady, to charge your own team players extra money.


Sorry, this was a typo.  I meant "who play with the team players".


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