# Cal South State/National Cup vs SCDSL Spring Season



## Tim Powell (Mar 23, 2021)

If I understand correctly, the upcoming State and National Cup arranged by Cal south is intended to align with the previous 2020 “season.”

As such, if you were registered to a team in Cal South in 2020, this would be your State and National Cup. So in theory, even though SCDSL left Cal South for 2021, is it correct that SCDSL teams would be able to (and would look to) play in the Cal South tournament to put a cap on the 2020 season (or at least get something out of it)?

If yes, what do we make of the overlap between the State and National Cup and the current SCDSL Spring season? In the case of birth year 2009, the first two weekends of National Cup are the first two weekends of May, and there are SCDSL Spring league games scheduled then.

Do we think things will be rearranged in the SCDSL season? Or will SCDSL teams just cut bait when it comes to all things Cal South and not play in the State and National Cup?


----------



## Venantsyo (Mar 24, 2021)

2009s would be 9v9 then?


----------



## fanclub (Mar 24, 2021)

Venantsyo said:


> 2009s would be 9v9 then?


at this point 9v9 is a waste of time. Lets just play 11v11 and call it a day


----------



## Luis Andres (Mar 24, 2021)

Does anyone know the official dates for state cup 2021?


----------



## crush (Mar 24, 2021)

fanclub said:


> at this point 9v9 is a waste of time. Lets just play 11v11 and call it a day


100%.  It's a lot harder to park the bus too.  Time to let the girls roam the fields and play free with all that open space.  My dd was getting smashed towards the end of U10.  You see, some girls grow faster and are really big at that age.  My little one was fast, strong but not at the physical level as some of these giants.  I swear, when the field opened up and she went 11x11, it was perfect timing.


----------



## fanclub (Mar 24, 2021)

My dd team is playing up this year, the change to 11v11 has been great, what a difference, they have transitioned well from playing 9v9.


----------



## Tim Powell (Mar 24, 2021)

Agreed with the sentiments above on 11v11. I don't think anyone 2009 wants to go backwards there. The question is whether Cal South's competition rules have teams transitioning to 9v9 and to 11v11 playing at the new level.

Looks TBD given the rules are coming soon on the website (for National Cup at least): https://calsouth.com/national-cup/


----------



## Tim Powell (Mar 24, 2021)

Luis Andres said:


> Does anyone know the official dates for state cup 2021?


Check out the grid on this page for State Cup: https://calsouth.com/state-cup/


----------



## Soccer (Mar 24, 2021)

In answer to the original question SCDSL will not be accommodating State Cup games.  Email  was sent on this.


----------



## marioz (Mar 24, 2021)

Soccer said:


> In answer to the original question SCDSL will not be accommodating State Cup games.  Email  was sent on this.


Will there be penalty/fine for forfeiting SCDSL games to go attend state cup games?


----------



## lafalafa (Mar 24, 2021)

marioz said:


> Will there be penalty/fine for forfeiting SCDSL games to go attend state cup games?


$1000 forfiet fee according to posters on the other thread.  Not sure if or how they might enforce that but it's out there at least


----------



## outside! (Mar 24, 2021)

Soccer said:


> In answer to the original question SCDSL will not be accommodating State Cup games.  Email  was sent on this.


Once again, the players get screwed by the multitude of competing youth soccer organizations. If only there were a national soccer organization that looked out for the players.


----------



## lafalafa (Mar 24, 2021)

outside! said:


> Once again, the players get screwed by the multitude of competing youth soccer organizations. If only there were a national soccer organization that looked out for the players.


You mean like USclub? They seem to be accommodating if you're attending certain tournaments.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Mar 24, 2021)

This is one of the most dissapointing issues that I see in Socal youth soccer.  The fact that SCDSL and Cal South cannot play nice for one last time is pathetic.   At the youth age level, we cannot do state cup because we will miss our last game of the season.   

If anyone has any connections with the SCDSL management team, please ask them to be the better person and make it work.     I cannot believe that so many SCDSL teams will not be able to do this last CalSouth State Cup due to egos from adults.


----------



## lafalafa (Mar 24, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> This is one of the most dissapointing issues that I see in Socal youth soccer.  The fact that SCDSL and Cal South cannot play nice for one last time is pathetic.   At the youth age level, we cannot do state cup because we will miss our last game of the season.
> 
> If anyone has any connections with the SCDSL management team, please ask them to be the better person and make it work.     I cannot believe that so many SCDSL teams will not be able to do this last CalSouth State Cup due to egos from adults.


How do you know that already when the schedules are not even out? 

Start dates don't mean your age or bracket wil play that day.  Some start Saturday, Sunday or even the following week.   

Could have a morning game and then after noon In the other.  Not saying it's ideal but teams have done that before with the cups and NPL's for example.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Mar 24, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> How do you know that already when the schedules are not even out?
> 
> Start dates don't mean your age or bracket wil play that day.  Some start Saturday, Sunday or even the following week.
> 
> Could have a morning game and then after noon In the other.  Not saying it's ideal but teams have done that before with the cups and NPL's for example.


The younger age groups, start on May 1-2.     I get your point but they should be able to fix this with Calsouth.  









						State Cup 2023 - Cal South
					

2023 Season TeamsMayors YoungersPresidents Youngers2022 Season TeamsMayors YOUNGERSGovernors YOUNGERSPresidents YOUNGERSMayors OLDERSGovernors OLDERSPresidents OLDERS Cal South Members Apply Now Non Cal South Members Apply Now State Cup RulesHow to Print Game RosterSample Roster7v7...




					calsouth.com


----------



## watfly (Mar 24, 2021)

outside! said:


> Once again, the players get screwed by the multitude of competing youth soccer organizations. If only there were a national soccer organization that looked out for the players.


This article today speaks about youth sports needing a reset and Covid is a good opportunity to do so.   Instead Southern California double-downed on more "elite" leagues during the lockdown.  We all bear some responsibility.  Choices are good, but its seems we've gone past the point of reasonableness.  Really curious to see how this all shakes out over the next couple of years.  Not holding my breath, but maybe there can be some consolidation of gaming circuits.









						Youth sports needs a reset. Child athletes are pushed to professionalize too early.
					

COVID-19 forced the multi-billion dollar youth sports industry to put be put on hold. Let's take advantage of this time to look at it with fresh eyes.



					www.usatoday.com


----------



## dawson (Mar 24, 2021)

This was posted on the Cal South website a week or so ago under the heading " News"  then "Cal South Announces State Cup and National Cup rules."

*" Spring Gaming Leagues "*

" Cal South has obtained a commitment from the Cal South Spring Gaming Leagues, that they will adjust their schedules to accommodate the Cal South State Cup and National Cup competitions. "
Application deadline is April 19 for olders .


----------



## crush (Mar 24, 2021)

watfly said:


> This article today speaks about youth sports needing a reset and Covid is a good opportunity to do so.   Instead Southern California double-downed on more "elite" leagues during the lockdown.  We all bear some responsibility.  Choices are good, but its seems we've gone past the point of reasonableness.  Really curious to see how this all shakes out over the next couple of years.  Not holding my breath, but maybe there can be some consolidation of gaming circuits.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I called for a pause and a reset before Rona 19.  Why?  Go back and read wat fly.  We ALL need a few Mulligans.


----------



## Ear (Mar 24, 2021)

dawson said:


> This was posted on the Cal South website a week or so ago under the heading " News"  then "Cal South Announces State Cup and National Cup rules."
> 
> *" Spring Gaming Leagues "*
> 
> ...


Not sure how SCDSL will be able to "adjust their schedules" to enable State Cup play.  We are G2011 and State Cup will allegedly start May 1 for us.  We have 5 SCDSL spring games left to play between May 1 - May 16th.  And doesn't current California Department of Public Health Guidance need to change for any "tournament" to take place in CA?  They've got just over 5 weeks and the clock is ticking.....


----------



## outside! (Mar 24, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> You mean like USclub? They seem to be accommodating if you're attending certain tournaments.


US Club is part of the problem and was formed purely to siphon money into the founder's pockets, not to help youth soccer players. There was already a national gaming league and an associated national championship tournament. USYS National Championship was open to any team that earned their spot, unlike ECNL or DA which are closed gaming leagues. The fragmentation of the soccer landscape does nothing but dilute competition and increase the cost of participation. Now US Club has board members on US Soccer. I promise that when the decision is between what is best for youth soccer players and what makes US Club more money, they will chose money.


----------



## lafalafa (Mar 24, 2021)

Ear said:


> Not sure how SCDSL will be able to "adjust their schedules" to enable State Cup play.  We are G2011 and State Cup will allegedly start May 1 for us.  We have 5 SCDSL spring games left to play between May 1 - May 16th.  And doesn't current California Department of Public Health Guidance need to change for any "tournament" to take place in CA?  They've got just over 5 weeks and the clock is ticking.....


They want your money now, they figure things out after the collect as usual.   Some waited 6+ months last go around so enter at your own risk.


----------



## lafalafa (Mar 24, 2021)

outside! said:


> US Club is part of the problem and was formed purely to siphon money into the founder's pockets, not to help youth soccer players. There was already a national gaming league and an associated national championship tournament. USYS National Championship was open to any team that earned their spot, unlike ECNL or DA which are closed gaming leagues. The fragmentation of the soccer landscape does nothing but dilute competition and increase the cost of participation. Now US Club has board members on US Soccer. I promise that when the decision is between what is best for youth soccer players and what makes US Club more money, they will chose money.


Who is this king pin founder of USclub you're referring to? 

I get the drift  but that genie was let out of the bottle many years ago and involved/es many including all the organizations, clubs, directors, and parents who enabled or encouraged the sprawl &  dilution of what we have today.


----------



## dawson (Mar 24, 2021)

Ear said:


> Not sure how SCDSL will be able to "adjust their schedules" to enable State Cup play.  We are G2011 and State Cup will allegedly start May 1 for us.  We have 5 SCDSL spring games left to play between May 1 - May 16th.  And doesn't current California Department of Public Health Guidance need to change for any "tournament" to take place in CA?  They've got just over 5 weeks and the clock is ticking.....


y 

good points !


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Mar 24, 2021)

How is Cal South able to pull off National and State Cup in a few weeks while a lot of the fields they typically depend on (Silverlakes, Oceanside) will be in use through mid May for league games?  I just don’t see how they pull it off.


----------



## lafalafa (Mar 24, 2021)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> How is Cal South able to pull off National and State Cup in a few weeks while a lot of the fields they typically depend on (Silverlakes, Oceanside) will be in use through mid May for league games?  I just don’t see how they pull it off.


Once they have your $$ they will book those remote complexes out in Lancaster, apple valley, Kern, Riverside, etc so they get cheap fields and you drive a long way for each game unless you stay over.    

It's all about the $$, there cups are there big revenue generator for them, they will schedule and book the fields in there best interest not yours.


----------



## Advantage (Mar 24, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Once they have your $$ they will book those remote complexes out in Lancaster, apple valley, Kern, Riverside, etc so they get cheap fields and you drive a long way for each game unless you stay over.
> 
> It's all about the $$, there cups are there big revenue generator for them, they will schedule and book the fields in there best interest not yours.


How is that an issue
Few months back lots of people were driving every weekend to AZ for games
And now you are going to complain about a drive to Lancaster, Apple valley 
Really???


----------



## lafalafa (Mar 24, 2021)

Advantage said:


> How is that an issue
> Few months back lots of people were driving every weekend to AZ for games
> And now you are going to complain about a drive to Lancaster, Apple valley
> Really???


I'm not complaining, we have'nt been involved in st/nt cup or Cal South since my youngest won both back in his U12 and less days many years ago.


----------



## dreamz (Mar 25, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> This is one of the most dissapointing issues that I see in Socal youth soccer.  The fact that SCDSL and Cal South cannot play nice for one last time is pathetic.   At the youth age level, we cannot do state cup because we will miss our last game of the season.
> 
> If anyone has any connections with the SCDSL management team, please ask them to be the better person and make it work.     I cannot believe that so many SCDSL teams will not be able to do this last CalSouth State Cup due to egos from adults.


I think that is already happening. I didn't see anything in their email saying they would absolutely not be flexible and help with scheduling. I saw that their league ends on May 16th and games won't be rescheduled in to June. 

I think the point was Cal South didn't do what they said they did and they just got called out for it. SCDSL has already been working with teams committed and paid for other tournaments and rescheduling games and I doubt State Cup will be any different. 

But whose to say State Cup actually happens anyways since tournaments still aren't allowed in california. League is a safer bet at this point anyways.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Mar 25, 2021)

dreamz said:


> I think that is already happening. I didn't see anything in their email saying they would absolutely not be flexible and help with scheduling. I saw that their league ends on May 16th and games won't be rescheduled in to June.
> 
> I think the point was Cal South didn't do what they said they did and they just got called out for it. SCDSL has already been working with teams committed and paid for other tournaments and rescheduling games and I doubt State Cup will be any different.
> 
> But whose to say State Cup actually happens anyways since tournaments still aren't allowed in california. League is a safer bet at this point anyways.


They are opening Disney and gyms will be at 25% and restaurants at 50% soon.   There is no way that an outdoor tournament is less safe  than going to an indoor restaurant at 50% capacity.


----------



## Tim Powell (Mar 26, 2021)

Tim Powell said:


> Agreed with the sentiments above on 11v11. I don't think anyone 2009 wants to go backwards there. The question is whether Cal South's competition rules have teams transitioning to 9v9 and to 11v11 playing at the new level.
> 
> Looks TBD given the rules are coming soon on the website (for National Cup at least): https://calsouth.com/national-cup/


I just e-mailed Cal South. I asked "Will birth year 2009 be playing 9v9 or 11v11?" in response to an e-mail advertising the State Cup & National Cup Return. 

The response was, "According to the attached US Soccer Player Development 2009 field size is 9v9." 

They attached the file below.


----------



## Ear (Mar 26, 2021)

Tim Powell said:


> I just e-mailed Cal South. I asked "Will birth year 2009 be playing 9v9 or 11v11?" in response to an e-mail advertising the State Cup & National Cup Return.
> 
> The response was, "According to the attached US Soccer Player Development 2009 field size is 9v9."
> 
> ...


Anyone know if a team is allowed to "play-up"?  Can a team made up of all 2009's play in the 2008 Mayors or Governors division?  If not, I'm pretty sure our team will pass on this tourney (assuming it even happens).   Heck, our current roster size exceeds the maximum allowed per this chart lol (we are G2011 and have 13 players).....


----------



## Tim Powell (Mar 26, 2021)

I did send follow-up questions to make it crystal clear as their response was a bit abstract. 

I of course didn't need to be educated on the 2009 field size per US Soccer Player Development. 

I needed to be informed on whether Cal South would be sticking with that in light of the very unusual year we just had in which many, if not most, teams called it a day on 9v9 months ago.


----------



## Tim Powell (Mar 29, 2021)

Tim Powell said:


> I did send follow-up questions to make it crystal clear as their response was a bit abstract.
> 
> I of course didn't need to be educated on the 2009 field size per US Soccer Player Development.
> 
> I needed to be informed on whether Cal South would be sticking with that in light of the very unusual year we just had in which many, if not most, teams called it a day on 9v9 months ago.


The response:

"2009 will be playing 9v9. We have to follow the US Soccer PDI guidelines for the 2020-2021 season.

Some teams are playing up in age groups to play 11v11. So for example 2009 playing 2008.

You will need to work with your club registrar to make sure the team is 2008 if you want to play up."


----------



## dreamz (Mar 29, 2021)

Tim Powell said:


> I did send follow-up questions to make it crystal clear as their response was a bit abstract.
> 
> I of course didn't need to be educated on the 2009 field size per US Soccer Player Development.
> 
> I needed to be informed on whether Cal South would be sticking with that in light of the very unusual year we just had in which many, if not most, teams called it a day on 9v9 months ago.


Typical Cal South. Stuck in the past. Can't look forward.


----------



## Tim Powell (Mar 29, 2021)

dreamz said:


> Typical Cal South. Stuck in the past. Can't look forward.


While I agree this is not ideal, my guess is Cal South likely needs to plug in to the competition format dictated up the chain by USYS. A winner from Cal South National Cup likely that advances into the USYS playoff system. 

It’s possible that due to many different regions having different approaches to playing (with many continuing to play) that a decision at the top to turn the page wasn’t as obvious as it might appear to us. Then again, maybe people aren’t looking forward but I guess that starts at the top vs Cal South, who likely just didn’t want their winners to be disqualified from advancing for not playing according to the mandated competition format.

Chalk it up to an uncertain year for which there wasn’t a playbook. In fairness, there is an option to play up.


----------



## ARod24 (Mar 29, 2021)

Ear said:


> Anyone know if a team is allowed to "play-up"?  Can a team made up of all 2009's play in the 2008 Mayors or Governors division?  If not, I'm pretty sure our team will pass on this tourney (assuming it even happens).   Heck, our current roster size exceeds the maximum allowed per this chart lol (we are G2011 and have 13 players).....


Our 11s will also miss state cup due to this nonsense. From my understanding if you participate you’ll have to play 7v7. Not worth the 1,000 fine


----------



## dreamz (Mar 29, 2021)

Tim Powell said:


> While I agree this is not ideal, my guess is Cal South likely needs to plug in to the competition format dictated up the chain by USYS. A winner from Cal South National Cup likely that advances into the USYS playoff system.
> 
> It’s possible that due to many different regions having different approaches to playing (with many continuing to play) that a decision at the top to turn the page wasn’t as obvious as it might appear to us. Then again, maybe people aren’t looking forward but I guess that starts at the top vs Cal South, who likely just didn’t want their winners to be disqualified from advancing for not playing according to the mandated competition format.
> 
> Chalk it up to an uncertain year for which there wasn’t a playbook. In fairness, there is an option to play up.


I don't think the 2009's advance to anything. I guess I could be wrong but I've never seen any 9v9 team advance out of State Cup to a Regional or national event so I'm not sure that's the reason. But again, I've been wrong before.


----------



## lafalafa (Mar 29, 2021)

dreamz said:


> I don't think the 2009's advance to anything. I guess I could be wrong but I've never seen any 9v9 team advance out of State Cup to a Regional or national event so I'm not sure that's the reason. But again, I've been wrong before.


U12 9v9 and U12 11x11 don't play the USYS national championship series starts at U13.

U12 11v11 CAL South NT champions used to get to into the west regionals but that was the end. No nationals.  My youngest son's team went at U12 to the regionals but that was like 6-7 years ago.


----------

