# Is DA done?



## SBFDad

New rumors coming out today that DA is considering disbanding, both boys and girls. All club-based academies to shift to ECNL. MLS academies going their own way. I have very few details, but heard this from several solid sources today. Anyone out there that can shed some light?


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## galaxydad

My sources told me the same. ECNL will be picking but even more quality players.


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## DosEquisGuy

appears to be a done deal
tough for some, but will finally allow MLS academies to prosper and concentrate the talent
on the other hand, will change high school soccer in the US


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## Dos Equis

DosEquisGuy said:


> appears to be a done deal
> tough for some, but will finally allow MLS academies to prosper and concentrate the talent
> on the other hand, will change high school soccer in the US


Interesting, you copy my name AND avatar?


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## Ellejustus

Dos Equis said:


> Interesting, you copy my name AND avatar?


I thought you were talking to yourself for a second.  Interesting indeed....


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## espola

DosEquisGuy said:


> appears to be a done deal
> tough for some, but will finally allow MLS academies to prosper and concentrate the talent
> on the other hand, will change high school soccer in the US


To be fair, an MLS-only program will concentrate the talent from less than half the population of the USA.


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## jpeter

For the 19-20' season yes ussda is done.

For 20-21' restructure coming....USL A for the boys is going to start up. However, their intiall plan was to have 1 team per club (u15-18).  Move up to USL 2 if you're good enough

With USL you can still sign an amateur contract and have college, high school or other eligibility still.

Still leaves some gaps for age year players so other leagues like ECNL may pick up some of the pieces but not a wholesale move.  Usclub national premier leagues (NPL's) will get some teams / players also.

Will ussda still have some sort of boys programming, yes but not like before.  Traditional fall season for 20-21'?  Doubtful at this point but they may still have some cups, showcase, or tournaments I would guess.


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## apples

DosEquisGuy said:


> appears to be a done deal
> tough for some, but will finally allow MLS academies to prosper and concentrate the talent
> on the other hand, will change high school soccer in the US


at what age group will the MLS team start DA


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## galaxydad

IMO- if you have a HS age kid not on a DA team and want to play at the next level ECNL should be the only way to go now. Colleges are going to take a wait and see approach to another new league. The ECNL model is known, respected and doesn’t have to sell itself like USL will.


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## jpeter

galaxydad said:


> IMO- if you have a HS age kid not on a DA team and want to play at the next level ECNL should be the only way to go now. Colleges are going to take a wait and see approach to another new league. The ECNL model is known, respected and doesn’t have to sell itself like USL will.


For the girls ecnl has been a good way to get college notice.  Up until now with the boys not so much, it's relatively new and we haven't heard of any socal commitments of note due to being affiliated with that league. 

The two local UCLA recuits for class or 2024,25 played da or regular club/ HS when they committed.

College coaches have lots of avenues where players can be seen, da has been one of those and there was upwords of 80 coaches at the playoffs.   

Colleges only play a short season so the coaches & players play usl, upsl, and other places to get in a full season.


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## Soccer43

Dos Equis said:


> Interesting, you copy my name AND avatar?


Either a great complement or one with no imagination whatsoever


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## younothat

I dunno if the writing is on the wall but: 

#ProRelForUSA  @ProRelForUSA
BREAKING: The largest national league is about to fail. This is reminder that in an open system based on merit, clubs may fail but leagues typically do not. #USSF continue to drop the ball in regards to governance and management of the sport’s infrastructure. #ProRelForUSA

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1248708819527630855








						COVID-19 provides opportunity for U.S. Soccer to shut down DA
					

COVID-19 has opened up an opportunity for U.S. Soccer to shutter the Development Academy.




					www.soccerwire.com


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## Ellejustus

We need Adam Shift and Diane to run one their investigations about this disaster.  This one might be something to look at.  I want to know how this all got started in the first place. This was not professional and did not have the girls best interest in mine at all.  Just had their hands in our pockets. The roll out was full of lies and mis statements and parents were made to believe their average rec player can be "world class" one day.  That is BS!!! They watered down the GDA and signed up so many players that their is no way all of them would be "world-class".  Elite was not good enough anymore.  Now you have to be developed.  BS!!!!  They played us all to be fools.  Damm fools!!!


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## galaxydad

jpeter said:


> For the girls ecnl has been a good way to get college notice.  Up until now with the boys not so much, it's relatively new and we haven't heard of any socal commitments of note due to being affiliated with that league.
> 
> The two local UCLA recuits for class or 2024,25 played da or regular club/ HS when they committed.
> 
> College coaches have lots of avenues where players can be seen, da has been one of those and there was upwords of 80 coaches at the playoffs.
> 
> Colleges only play a short season so the coaches & players play usl, upsl, and other places to get in a full season.


That was the ECNL boys of 2 years ago when it was new. After several DA teams brought most of their DA players to the ECNL/NPL playoffs that reputation changed as the ECNL boys teams showed very well. There were min 20 college coaches at every boys ECNL showcase game in Vegas in Nov. and I know several 03 boys that already have offers to D1 colleges and many top academic schools as well. Just like any new league etc they had to earn their stripes and the colleges see the ECNL boys side as a worthwhile place to look for talent.

one D1 college coach said they are seeing better talent coming from many of the ECNL player pools than the non MLS DA programs- he also said he likes seeing seeing the boys in a HS setting and that was a big knock on DA from the beginning. Another thing that was interesting is he brought up the fact that the Galaxy school model isn’t working well as lots of those boys are struggling in a college setting so they are pretty Leary about recruiting kids to their program despite that players talent.


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## surf&donuts

The time my DA kid played. DA was much faster, higher level play. Why would they drop it? They need to come up with a plan a stick it out.


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## jpeter

@byranwallace ; "It’s done, US soccer ended DA permanently this week.


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## MWN

Dos Equis said:


> Interesting, you copy my name AND avatar?


In defense of DEGuy, it really is the only true Avatar a person with that name could pick.


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## RedDevilDad

MWN said:


> In defense of DEGuy, it really is the only true Avatar a person with that name could pick.


Y'all are all just jealous of my Avatar.  Elite Ultra Development Real Barca United Academy FC Escuela of the World.  My club logo. #winning
Although that guy who was all about WAR FC for a while seemed pretty hard core.  He gets nominated for #2 club names.


To stay on subject... lol. Nothing official on DA yet today. Ton of speculation.  I can see it going either way.  Based on those I've talked with, I'd expect some answers relatively soon... but wouldn't surprise me to see everyone wait till after tryouts and signed contracts. haha.


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## Son

More than one DOC has sent emails about this rumor.  They say it's merely a rumor and they will keep us updated.


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## galaxydad

Son said:


> More than one DOC has sent emails about this rumor.  They say it's merely a rumor and they will keep us updated.


Interesting- I know of one club that had a emergency meeting regarding the situation. Spoke to a coach who was in that meeting


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## espola

galaxydad said:


> Interesting- I know of one club that had a emergency meeting regarding the situation. Spoke to a coach who was in that meeting


Were there more than 10 people at the meeting?

(asking for a friend in law enforcement)


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## RedDevilDad

Give it another day and a half...


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## SBFDad

From Top Drawer Soccer this morning...


Article Written by J.R. Eskilson & Travis Clark
Published: April 14, 2020

There was plenty of chatter last week about the future of the Development Academy, the league run by the U.S. Soccer Federation. It started with buzz among coaches, and then spiraled into a hive of chitter chatter when a tweet was posted by an ECNL coach about the league folding.

Glen Crooks, a reporter and coach from New Jersey, tweeted that an announcement may come over the weekend about the future of the league. SoccerWire posted an opinion piece about the timing of canceling the league and the season. 

Easter Weekend came and went, with no official word or announcement from U.S. Soccer. TopDrawerSoccer reached out to the Federation for comment and had not heard back as of time of publishing (on Tuesday morning). The reliable Buzz Carrick, who covers FC Dallas and its Academy on 3rddegree.net, reported that a decision could be coming down on Tuesday.

TopDrawerSoccer spent the past weekend on the phone with coaches, directors, and others involved with the league. There has been no definitive answer to the question on everyone’s mind, but many seem to believe the fate of the league is sealed. Below is some of the information we’ve gathered from those conversations. 

Speculation about the future of MLS academy sides within the Development Academy have played a role. Sources haven’t confirmed rumors that MLS is planning on starting its own youth development league, and withdrawing its teams from the DA. During the 2019/20 season, DA officials tried to appease MLS with the tier approach, but the professional academies always seemed more eager to forge a path alone. Whether or not the wheels are in motion for this remains to be seen, but it is more than likely at least partially related to the DA’s future. 

With uncertainty swirling about MLS academies' place in the league during the pandemic outbreak, some original member clubs began to submit paperwork to withdraw from the Boys Development Academy for the 2020/2021 season, according to a source close to the league. 

On the girls side, Dallas Texans, Real Colorado, NC Courage, and United Futbol Academy (UFA) all announced their intention to move to (or rejoin) ECNL for the 2020/2021 season. Those four are some of the most respected and successful clubs in U.S. soccer history. Texans and Real Colorado are also two major Nike-sponsored clubs in the youth game. 

It has been common for clubs to jump back to ECNL over the last couple of years, as they sort out whether the Development Academy was the right place or not for the club. And the Development Academy usually has plenty of applicants waiting in the wings to fill spots. This year was no different with the Development Academy announcing club membership for the 2020/2021 season in March. 

So what changed between March and April? 

Sports stopped. With no soccer, there was no money coming in for U.S. Soccer. The new leadership could look at the books and see the Development Academy was a heavy ticket on the annual budget. With lawsuits pending and no revenue in the immediate future, it does not seem outlandish to cut that type of heavy burden from the books for the future. 

Sources have told TopDrawerSoccer that Dan Flynn was considering cutting both programs before he left his role as CEO of U.S. Soccer in September. Perhaps his successor was not afraid to pull the trigger on the idea during this period. 

“We have a strong feeling the Girls DA will be eliminated not only due to the pandemic but also other factors that have played part over the season,” one club director wrote in an email to parents that TopDrawerSoccer obtained last week. “The Boys DA has also been brought into question due to the financial commitment that the US Soccer Federation has set forth and a decision will be made over the next few days on whether the Boys DA is to continue to operate as usual or a change will be made.”

Even with all of this evidence, nothing seems final. Everyone that TopDrawerSoccer spoke with over the weekend used the term “seem,” which suggests that U.S. Soccer has not decided and is not sure. Or academies are being kept in the dark about what has actually been decided. 

With the uncertainty, many club directors have begun reaching out to other leagues (ECNL, Boys ECNL, NPL, etc.) to establish a plan in case U.S. Soccer’s leagues do fold and they need a back-up plan for 2020/2021. ECNL’s President Christian Lavers told TopDrawerSoccer last month that he felt like the ECNL was close to full for the 2020/2021 season, which could leave a number of storied clubs in the cold for the upcoming season. 

This article will be updated with more information when available.


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## Dargle

Kevin Baxter of the LA Times is reporting that an announcement about the demise of DA could come as soon as Wednesday


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250088181866696704


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## jpeter

Well MLS season is now in serious Jeopardy with no return in May.








						MLS Statement on Return to Play | April 14, 2020 | Sporting Kansas City
					

MLS Statement on Return to Play




					www.sportingkc.com
				




Without MLS funds, facilities, teams there is no DA.  Let's face it ussda (10m)  only puts in a fraction what clubs & MLS spend.  MLS is cutting back expensive, staff, and the like, extra spending on youth programs s not a high priority I would think.

ussda may not have a choice anymore and let's hope Gov. Newsom''s gives us some good news today about reopening CA.  Be happy if the youth gets back to training &: playing this summer.


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## 3leches

Rumor mill; DA will make an announcement tomorrow. Clubs like Pats, Golden State, etc have been asked to move there top teams to ECNL


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## watfly

I have to say since I have a DA playing son that I will be bummed if the rumor is true.  However, the termination of DA is probably the best decision in the long term.  DA failed miserably in its mission.  Of course, it was run by US Soccer so its failure was inevitable.  COVID may have done us all a favor in this instance.

My biggest concern is that in the panic by clubs to replace it as the "top" league that youth soccer will become even more disjointed and diluted.  I'm thinking that it may be best to sit this one out for a year to see if and how it settles out and have my son play futsal in the meantime...he would'nt complain.


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## jpeter

3leches said:


> Rumor mill; DA will make an announcement tomorrow. Clubs like Pats, Golden State, etc have been asked to move there top teams to ECNL


I'm going to call BS on those clubs.  

Golden State is already in ECNL and Pat's already has teams in NPL no need for ECNL travel for them. 

MLS teams have no need for ECNL either as they have USL or other options 

ECNL SW has a full load of 14 teams already.  Why would any club what to consider a travel league like ECNL and this point, not buying it.


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## Advantage

DA is out and  bye bye
Announcement should be shortly


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## Sunil Illuminati

jpeter said:


> I'm going to call BS on those clubs.
> 
> Golden State is already in ECNL and Pat's already has teams in NPL no need for ECNL travel for them.
> 
> MLS teams have no need for ECNL either as they have USL or other options
> 
> ECNL SW has a full load of 14 teams already.  Why would any club what to consider a travel league like ECNL and this point, not buying it.


You'll be wrong.


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## jpeter

Sunil Illuminati said:


> You'll be wrong.


Wrong about what? Some rumors?

If you have something to contribute or facts post them.


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## Sunil Illuminati

jpeter said:


> Wrong about what?


1.Pats, Golden state and other DA's will join ECNL
2.MLS who knows?
3.Doesn't have to be one big conference


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## 3leches

Friends at GS believe otherwise


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## jpeter

3leches said:


> Friends at GS believe otherwise


Hum, you might want to check in with JN if you really want to know.


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## Sunil Illuminati

jpeter said:


> Hum, you might want to check in with JN if you really want to know.


I guess time will tell


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## jpeter

Sunil Illuminati said:


> 1.Pats, Golden state and other DA's will join ECNL
> 2.MLS who knows?
> 3.Doesn't have to be one big conference


Golden State boys already in ECNL.

You don't join ECNL you apply and get approved or not.

Doesn't have to be anything  but carry on


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## Sunil Illuminati

You don't join, you apply? What happens if they approve your application? Don't you join?

Seems like you have the inside track.


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## galaxydad

espola said:


> Were there more than 10 people at the meeting?
> 
> (asking for a friend in law enforcement)


Lol! Virtual


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## galaxydad

jpeter said:


> I'm going to call BS on those clubs.
> 
> Golden State is already in ECNL and Pat's already has teams in NPL no need for ECNL travel for them.
> 
> MLS teams have no need for ECNL either as they have USL or other options
> 
> ECNL SW has a full load of 14 teams already.  Why would any club what to consider a travel league like ECNL and this point, not buying it.


FCGS in ECNL-
All others  will have to apply- so they will not announce the move as the 20-21 teams have been announced- doesn’t mean it will happen but they will have to apply and the governing board would have to change its bylaws- 

IMO- Pats, Strikers and Surf along with a few others  ruined club soccer in SoCal- they formed the SCDSL based on $$ and getting more teams into a league which is fair, but only a few years after they shook things up made another switch to DA and diluted an already diluted area.


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## jpeter

Sunil Illuminati said:


> You don't join, you apply? What happens if they approve your application? Don't you join?
> 
> Seems like you have the inside track.


Clubs apply for membership.  If there applications are approved they become  members.  

Golden State has been a member since 2019 and played in the league this fall and the showcases

No other SC DA clubs applied for ECNL membership for 20-21'     The current terms of the memberships are not something that our local MLS clubs are likely to agree to.


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## SDadAZ

Looking pretty official:  https://theathletic.com/1746877/2020/04/14/sources-ussf-to-shut-down-boys-and-girls-development-academy-programs/


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## Kante

SDadAZ said:


> Looking pretty official:  https://theathletic.com/1746877/2020/04/14/sources-ussf-to-shut-down-boys-and-girls-development-academy-programs/


yup, am assuming The Athletic was waiting for solid confirmation before publishing.


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## jpeter

Kante said:


> yup, am assuming The Athletic was waiting for solid confirmation before publishing.


They are left center bias but try to get the facts right mostly.

Waiting until the "official" annocement instead of the old "as soon as tommorow" bit might have been more prudent but that's media today sometimes they run with things and can always retract or make updates.


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## kickingandscreaming

watfly said:


> I have to say since I have a DA playing son that I will be bummed if the rumor is true.  However, the termination of DA is probably the best decision in the long term.  DA failed miserably in its mission.  Of course, it was run by US Soccer so its failure was inevitable.  COVID may have done us all a favor in this instance.
> 
> My biggest concern is that in the panic by clubs to replace it as the "top" league that youth soccer will become even more disjointed and diluted.  I'm thinking that it may be best to sit this one out for a year to see if and how it settles out and have my son play futsal in the meantime...he would'nt complain.


Don't sit out when the next season starts - whenever that ends up happening. Find a place that has the training and a culture that you and your son will enjoy - and play. Take care of what you will do the following season next year. One season/year at a time is enough to plan.


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## RedDevilDad

Announcements will come tomorrow. 2 big press releases which will bring clarity to some of the rumors mentioned above. 8am and 11am (or 1pm).


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## galaxydad

Per source Pats are telling their 03-04 players that they are trying to go ECNL but it’s a long shot as they have already missed the application deadline for the 20-21 ECNL season. Several players have begun to reaching out about moving teams


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## jpeter

galaxydad said:


> Per source Pats are telling their 03-04 players that they are trying to go ECNL but it’s a long shot as they have already missed the application deadline for the 20-21 ECNL season. Several players have begun to reaching out about moving teams


Yup, at least @3leches & @Sunil Illuminati know now.  Same boat as the others.


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## Sunil Illuminati

jpeter said:


> Yup, at least @3leches & @Sunil Illuminati know now.  Same boat as the others.


Send me a six pack tomorrow


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## jpeter

For beng 0-3 you should be buying. Maybe you can get a hit tomorrow. Brush up in the batter's cage. Someone called the shots last week





						Is DA done?
					

New rumors coming out today that DA is considering disbanding, both boys and girls. All club-based academies to shift to ECNL. MLS academies going their own way. I have very few details, but heard this from several solid sources today. Anyone out there that can shed some light?



					www.socalsoccer.com


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## Sunil Illuminati

jpeter said:


> For beng 0-3 you should be buying. Maybe you can get a hit tomorrow. Brush up in the batter's cage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is DA done?
> 
> 
> New rumors coming out today that DA is considering disbanding, both boys and girls. All club-based academies to shift to ECNL. MLS academies going their own way. I have very few details, but heard this from several solid sources today. Anyone out there that can shed some light?
> 
> 
> 
> www.socalsoccer.com


Sometimes when you swing for the fence you get a hit! I'll keep swinging


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## galaxydad

Pats telling their boys ECNL has accepted them- we’ll see what happens soon


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## thedudeabides

This should have happened years ago. Many of the DA's outside California wouldn't be top 50 teams in SoCal and half of the SoCal DA's were mediocre. Some actually got worse after going from club to DA. How can you claim to have the best players playing on the best teams when it was pay for play at many of these DA's and much of the top talent was not geographically or financially able to play at a DA,. That's a big reason our MNT struggles. The politics of pay to play have ruined the sport. They should make all the MLS Academies residential and invite the top teams within a 3-4 hour driving radius to compete in a promotion/relegation league. Players in really rural areas would still have opportunities to get scouted by other means and would have the ability to join an MLS Academy if it was residential and fully funded. This is the only way to consolidate the best talent in the U.S. Remove the politics and give the truly talented kids a real opportunity to become world class players like they do in Europe. The DA experiment was a miserable failure. I'm glad the powers that be are waking up to that reality.


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## watfly

kickingandscreaming said:


> Don't sit out when the next season starts - whenever that ends up happening. Find a place that has the training and a culture that you and your son will enjoy - and play. Take care of what you will do the following season next year. One season/year at a time is enough to plan.


That would work too.  He told me today he wants to play water polo of all things, not a knock on water polo, just a curious choice.


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## 3leches

Email sent out to strikers parents about an important announcement tomorrow.


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## Kante

Get the focus right now on near term. 100% makes sense. 

But, for folks to consider it's the right time to lift the head up, here's an article describing - among other things - the scouting system Bielsa set up for Newell's and Atlas. 

Key Bielsa quote: "I designed a structure to observe 20,000 players a year,...” in Argentina, a geo about 1/3 the size of USA and pop about 15% of USA. Even assuming an order of magnitude discount for hyperbole, seems like we could be doing much better than we are in USA, with or without DA.

Here's article: https://thesefootballtimes.co/2019/09/19/marcelo-bielsa-the-mexico-diaries/


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## jpeter

watfly said:


> That would work too.  He told me today he wants to play water polo of all things, not a knock on water polo, just a curious choice.


Water polo is fun, brother was always at the pool in HS. If I didn't surf so much might have joined him.



3leches said:


> Email sent out to strikers parents about an important announcement tomorrow.


Hearing about a lot of virtual meetings tomorrow, going to be a busy day.


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## RedCard

jpeter said:


> Golden State boys already in ECNL.
> 
> You don't join ECNL you apply and get approved or not.
> 
> Doesn't have to be anything  but carry on


I'm guessing that the FCGS ECNL team moves to ECRL or Flight 1. 
The MLS DA Teams will only field a U17 and U19 team, players on the other age group teams will need to find new teams.


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## RedDevilDad

RedDevilDad said:


> Announcements will come tomorrow. 2 big press releases which will bring clarity to some of the rumors mentioned above. 8am and 11am (or 1pm).


Time


RedDevilDad said:


> Announcements will come tomorrow. 2 big press releases which will bring clarity to some of the rumors mentioned above. 8am and 11am (or 1pm).


I’m told DA pushed release back to 1. Expect more announcements shortly thereafter.


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## mlx

What's going to happen with teams that have DA and ECNL? Will DA become the ECNL team and the ECNL become the gold/flight 1 team?


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## Soccer43

mlx said:


> What's going to happen with teams that have DA and ECNL? Will DA become the ECNL team and the ECNL become the gold/flight 1 team?


HAHA - or maybe the other way around...


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## Kante

RedDevilDad said:


> Time
> 
> I’m told DA pushed release back to 1. Expect more announcements shortly thereafter.


pst or cst?


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## JPS

thedudeabides said:


> This should have happened years ago. Many of the DA's outside California wouldn't be top 50 teams in SoCal and half of the SoCal DA's were mediocre. Some actually got worse after going from club to DA. How can you claim to have the best players playing on the best teams when it was pay for play at many of these DA's and much of the top talent was not geographically or financially able to play at a DA,. That's a big reason our MNT struggles. The politics of pay to play have ruined the sport. They should make all the MLS Academies residential and invite the top teams within a 3-4 hour driving radius to compete in a promotion/relegation league. Players in really rural areas would still have opportunities to get scouted by other means and would have the ability to join an MLS Academy if it was residential and fully funded. This is the only way to consolidate the best talent in the U.S. Remove the politics and give the truly talented kids a real opportunity to become world class players like they do in Europe. The DA experiment was a miserable failure. I'm glad the powers that be are waking up to that reality.


Pay for play was definitely the name of the game on some DA teams. Some of those parents wasted their monies, sometimes writing $10K to $15K checks to their clubs for their kids play time ! Now they may not be able to even play flight 2


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## espola

thedudeabides said:


> This should have happened years ago. Many of the DA's outside California wouldn't be top 50 teams in SoCal and half of the SoCal DA's were mediocre. Some actually got worse after going from club to DA. How can you claim to have the best players playing on the best teams when it was pay for play at many of these DA's and much of the top talent was not geographically or financially able to play at a DA,. That's a big reason our MNT struggles. The politics of pay to play have ruined the sport. They should make all the MLS Academies residential and invite the top teams within a 3-4 hour driving radius to compete in a promotion/relegation league. Players in really rural areas would still have opportunities to get scouted by other means and would have the ability to join an MLS Academy if it was residential and fully funded. This is the only way to consolidate the best talent in the U.S. Remove the politics and give the truly talented kids a real opportunity to become world class players like they do in Europe. The DA experiment was a miserable failure. I'm glad the powers that be are waking up to that reality.


Will the MLS residential academies provide high school education?  Will all the academies coach the same playing style (I don't know if that is a good thing or not)?  

And - it is better than what was done, but I don't know if it is the "only" way.


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## espola

watfly said:


> That would work too.  He told me today he wants to play water polo of all things, not a knock on water polo, just a curious choice.


Concussions and knee injuries are rare, and they don't have to play on sunstroke turf.


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## messy

thedudeabides said:


> This should have happened years ago. Many of the DA's outside California wouldn't be top 50 teams in SoCal and half of the SoCal DA's were mediocre. Some actually got worse after going from club to DA. How can you claim to have the best players playing on the best teams when it was pay for play at many of these DA's and much of the top talent was not geographically or financially able to play at a DA,. That's a big reason our MNT struggles. The politics of pay to play have ruined the sport. They should make all the MLS Academies residential and invite the top teams within a 3-4 hour driving radius to compete in a promotion/relegation league. Players in really rural areas would still have opportunities to get scouted by other means and would have the ability to join an MLS Academy if it was residential and fully funded. This is the only way to consolidate the best talent in the U.S. Remove the politics and give the truly talented kids a real opportunity to become world class players like they do in Europe. The DA experiment was a miserable failure. I'm glad the powers that be are waking up to that reality.


This is a fantastic post and such a great suggestion. I would only add the wrinkle that MLS was never really on the same page as US Soccer in terms of the mission (US Soccer is a non-profit with no authority over the wealthy owners of MLS teams) of developing kids for USMNT...which is probably why MLS is going its own way now. If there was a unified structure where your pro/rel league included USL teams in smaller markets and places where there is no pro team (Phoenix, San Diego, Sacramento), it may really winnow the best to the top while giving so many  other excellent players specific goals and professional training.


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## justneededaname

watfly said:


> That would work too.  He told me today he wants to play water polo of all things, not a knock on water polo, just a curious choice.


My son signed up for high school football next year. He has spent the entire off time in the garage gym trying to bulk up instead of playing with a soccer ball. I expect when he hears about this he will tell me he wants to stop playing soccer and switch to football. I would take water polo in an instant.


----------



## Kante

Here's a quick, funnier take on the DA situation as we all wait for the shoe to drop. Snaves, IMHO, is the one of the best poet laureates we have for the US Soccer scene. 









						USSF Finds New and Exciting Ways to Disservice Youth Development
					

Why try to reach as much talent as possible when you could somehow develop even less?




					snavely.substack.com


----------



## watfly

Surf has been emailed that they are in Ecnl for boys and girls.  Ive heard a unsubstantiated rumor of another SD boys team got in but I'm not convinced so I'm not going to divulge.  I heard that Albion did not get in but I'm sure NG will claim they didn't try because they have a better plan.


----------



## rsb18

My son has suffered a series of tough injuries over the past 4 years and has been in an out of the DA. I have seen the inside of DA and none-DA clubs. I, for one, am not thrilled with the DA terminating. The DA, while being far from perfect and really only affecting a small number of players, has/had some redeeming qualities that helped set a tone for DA and non-DA teams - coaching standards, written training programs and practices plans, oversight, 3-4 practices per week, emphasis on development over winning (debatable I know), no high school soccer, and putting pressure on clubs to find ways to be partially or fulling funded. Now we are back to egomaniac coaches intent on nothing but winning in order to attract paying players, pay to play, two practices per week, zero coaching standards, and high school soccer. My son was in grade 9 this year and played varsity soccer, playing division 1 and 2 teams. The games were unwatchable and the quality was brutal. Four years in high school equals 12ish months out of 48 months or 1/4 of a player's year in what for most solid players will be a poor soccer environment.


----------



## Eagle33

I'll bet Pats and Strikers will be in ECNL. Surf definitely in.


----------



## galaxydad

Per rumor all non MLS DA teams will play ECNL next season-

Questions 
1) what will their financials look like- most kids played for free so will they still cover costs- I’m guessing not 
2) how will their B teams handle the move down- lots of selling NPL, ENPL etc 

sad for the 03/04 ages as they have been through so much already- move to SCDSL, age changes, move to DA, move again to ECNL- criminal IMO


----------



## foreveryoung

rsb18 said:


> My son has suffered a series of tough injuries over the past 4 years and has been in an out of the DA. I have seen the inside of DA and none-DA clubs. I, for one, am not thrilled with the DA terminating. The DA, while being far from perfect and really only affecting a small number of players, has/had some redeeming qualities that helped set a tone for DA and non-DA teams - coaching standards, written training programs and practices plans, oversight, 3-4 practices per week, emphasis on development over winning (debatable I know), no high school soccer, and putting pressure on clubs to find ways to be partially or fulling funded. Now we are back to egomaniac coaches intent on nothing but winning in order to attract paying players, pay to play, two practices per week, zero coaching standards, and high school soccer. My son was in grade 9 this year and played varsity soccer, playing division 1 and 2 teams. The games were unwatchable and the quality was brutal. Four years in high school equals 12ish months out of 48 months or 1/4 of a player's year in what for most solid players will be a poor soccer environment.


I would agree that there were some good things about the DA and instead of taking this opportunity to take the good and improving even more with a league that grows the game of soccer, develops better players AND benefits the youth, the clubs are fracturing the landscape even more to jockey for position and in the end the kids and families still lose out.  More travel, more unethical recruiting practices, more win at all costs, more egomaniac coaches.

Can you imagine a youth sports world where the non-profit clubs actually worked together for the betterment of the game and our youth?  Wouldn't that be a concept.


----------



## dad4

mlx said:


> What's going to happen with teams that have DA and ECNL? Will DA become the ECNL team and the ECNL become the gold/flight 1 team?


Teams probably mix up a bit.  Some of the top kids may have been on the ECNL roster for other reasons.


----------



## galaxydad

If they roster 30 my guess is that there will be movement up and down to try to retain players


----------



## watfly

galaxydad said:


> Per rumor all non MLS DA teams will play ECNL next season-
> 
> Questions
> 1) what will their financials look like- most kids played for free so will they still cover costs- I’m guessing not
> 2) how will their B teams handle the move down- lots of selling NPL, ENPL etc
> 
> sad for the 03/04 ages as they have been through so much already- move to SCDSL, age changes, move to DA, move again to ECNL- criminal IMO


Surf's email said the top teams will play in ECNL and the 2nd team will play in ECNL Regional League.  FYI I'm not affiliated with Surf in anyway but I have seen the email.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati

jpeter said:


> For beng 0-3 you should be buying. Maybe you can get a hit tomorrow. Brush up in the batter's cage. Someone called the shots last week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is DA done?
> 
> 
> New rumors coming out today that DA is considering disbanding, both boys and girls. All club-based academies to shift to ECNL. MLS academies going their own way. I have very few details, but heard this from several solid sources today. Anyone out there that can shed some light?
> 
> 
> 
> www.socalsoccer.com











						ECNL Boys Announces 6 New Member Clubs in  Southern California for 2020-2021
					

RICHMOND, VA (April 15, 2020) – The ECNL Boys is excited to announce that Arsenal, FC Golden State, Pateadores, Real So Cal, San Diego Surf, and Strikers FC will join the league in the 2020-2021 season as members of the Southwest Conference.  “The addition of these clubs, along with our current...




					www.boysecnl.com


----------



## Eagle33

Here you go.....

The Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) Boys is excited to announce that Arsenal FC USA, F.C. Golden State Pateadores Soccer Club, Real So Cal Soccer Club, San Diego Surf Soccer Club and Strikers FC Irvine will join the league in the 2020-2021 season as members of the Southwest Conference.


----------



## galaxydad

If I was the SW ECNL id hold their own showcase. Almost all of the top talent is now consolidated in one league.

winners- college scouts, those that wanted talent in one spot, pay to play clubs

losers- low income,Coast soccer, second tier teams and leagues,


----------



## RedDevilDad

FCGS jumped the gun on press release.  The rest are waiting to post theirs.  This also is happening in PNW, TX, CO, FL...  Some great new changes to ECNL as well to make this happen.  I'll elaborate in a minute.


----------



## surf&donuts

Posted on ECNL website:
*ECNL Boys Announces 6 New Member Clubs in Southern California for 2020-2021*
RICHMOND, VA (April 15, 2020) – The ECNL Boys is excited to announce that Arsenal, FC Golden State, Pateadores, Real So Cal, San Diego Surf, and Strikers FC will join the league in the 2020-2021 season as members of the Southwest Conference.


----------



## justneededaname

surf&donuts said:


> Posted on ECNL website:
> *ECNL Boys Announces 6 New Member Clubs in Southern California for 2020-2021*
> RICHMOND, VA (April 15, 2020) – The ECNL Boys is excited to announce that Arsenal, FC Golden State, Pateadores, Real So Cal, San Diego Surf, and Strikers FC will join the league in the 2020-2021 season as members of the Southwest Conference.


Besides Albion, City, and Nomads, that also means Rebels got left hanging in the San Diego area. Means no south county option. Everyone will have to drive to Del Mar and either turn right off Del Mar Heights Road or turn left.


----------



## Dargle

Eagle33 said:


> Here you go.....
> 
> The Elite Clubs National League (ECNL) Boys is excited to announce that Arsenal FC USA, F.C. Golden State Pateadores Soccer Club, Real So Cal Soccer Club, San Diego Surf Soccer Club and Strikers FC Irvine will join the league in the 2020-2021 season as members of the Southwest Conference.


Just looking at the 06 age group, this means that the SW conference could include 9 former DA teams in SoCal alone (Arsenal, FCGS, Pats, RSC, SD Surf, Strikers, LA Surf, OC Surf, and Legends - assuming that the DA teams effectively replace the ECNL teams for the clubs that had both last year - FCGS, LA Surf, and Legends).  Only Socal DA teams not included (other than the MLS teams) are TFA, Santa Barbara, VC Fusion, and LAUFA in LA and Albion, Murrieta Surf, LAG SD (City), and Nomads in San Diego, but it's not clear ECNL is done yet.


----------



## watfly

justneededaname said:


> Besides Albion, City, and Nomads, that also means Rebels got left hanging in the San Diego area. Means no south county option. Everyone will have to drive to Del Mar and either turn right off Del Mar Heights Road or turn left.


According to our club's email the Southwestern DA clubs are trying to put together a 10 month program.  We shall see.

I think its a mistake not to include a south county option with either CV FC/DV7 or Rebels.   What's the over/under of how many parents are going to call Sharks for a tryout?  I'll put it at 100.


----------



## justneededaname

watfly said:


> According to our club's email the Southwestern DA clubs are trying to put together a 10 month program.  We shall see.
> 
> I think its a mistake not to include a south county option with either CV FC/DV7 or Rebels.   What's the over/under of how many parents are going to call Sharks for a tryout?  I'll put it at 100.


I know Rebels applied to get the boys and haven't heard yet. Maybe there is still an announcement to come. There are a lot of south county parents crossing their fingers.


----------



## YNWA 96

watfly said:


> According to our club's email the Southwestern DA clubs are trying to put together a 10 month program.  We shall see.
> 
> I think its a mistake not to include a south county option with either CV FC/DV7 or Rebels.   What's the over/under of how many parents are going to call Sharks for a tryout?  I'll put it at 100.



ECNL program is already a 10 month season, what would  they be trying to add?????

Also, the last line of the ECNL announcement indicates there will be additional teams added to ECNL

"Additional new clubs for the ECNL Boys 2020-2021 season will be announced in the coming days."


----------



## jpeter

RedDevilDad said:


> FCGS jumped the gun on press release.  The rest are waiting to post theirs.  This also is happening in PNW, TX, CO, FL...  Some great new changes to ECNL as well to make this happen.  I'll elaborate in a minute.


They were already in ECNL previously

Pat's decided they need to get in ECNL also to keep up with Jones I guess but I didn't see they need for them to do so since they were already in NPL but got to keep the $$ rolling in or something.


----------



## full90

If I’m at Albion or nomads or whoever I’d sit tight. You still have a good team and will play in a good league. College coaches come to the big tournaments. You’re fine. Ecnl is just another league. Lots of good teams not in it.


----------



## jpeter

Sunil Illuminati said:


> ECNL Boys Announces 6 New Member Clubs in  Southern California for 2020-2021
> 
> 
> RICHMOND, VA (April 15, 2020) – The ECNL Boys is excited to announce that Arsenal, FC Golden State, Pateadores, Real So Cal, San Diego Surf, and Strikers FC will join the league in the 2020-2021 season as members of the Southwest Conference.  “The addition of these clubs, along with our current...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.boysecnl.com


Yeah good for those clubs, 

Your now1-3 as Pat's decided they wanted in.   GS  was already in and no MLS so your average is .333 which is not bad for MLB.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati

jpeter said:


> Yeah good for those clubs,
> 
> Your now1-3 as Pat's decided they wanted in.   GS  was already in and no MLS so your average is .333 which is not bad for MLB.


GS DA wasn't but now they are. They'll have 2 teams. You'll see. No hard feelings. They've joined

All 3 points are on point


----------



## Messi>CR7

Sunil Illuminati said:


> GS DA wasn't but now they are. They'll have 2 teams. You'll see. No hard feelings. They've joined


I was a little confused about that as well.  I see FCGS already has a team in ECNL SW division, but somehow they were also included in this morning's PR as one of the six additional new clubs.


----------



## thedudeabides

messy said:


> This is a fantastic post and such a great suggestion. I would only add the wrinkle that MLS was never really on the same page as US Soccer in terms of the mission (US Soccer is a non-profit with no authority over the wealthy owners of MLS teams) of developing kids for USMNT...which is probably why MLS is going its own way now. If there was a unified structure where your pro/rel league included USL teams in smaller markets and places where there is no pro team (Phoenix, San Diego, Sacramento), it may really winnow the best to the top while giving so many  other excellent players specific goals and professional training.


Agreed about USL teams in smaller markets; great idea. We have to move to what Europe does and eliminate the politics. I spent some time over there talking to one of the leading youth academy directors. He told me flat out that our country and we had so much potential but we were ruining it with politics.


----------



## RedDevilDad

Messi>CR7 said:


> I was a little confused about that as well.  I see FCGS already has a team in ECNL SW division, but somehow they were also included in this morning's PR as one of the six additional new clubs.


Wait for the three tier and ECNL pro/rel announcement.


----------



## mlx

I don't get it. Why are they announcing FCGS as a new club if they already were in ECNL? Does that mean FCGS will have two teams per age group or something?

Also, I was hopping Eagles would get in as well.


----------



## wc_baller

Boys ECNL just announced some former-DA clubs joining as well.









						ECNL Boys Announces New Clubs and New Mid-Atlantic Conference Alignment
					

RICHMOND, VA (April 15, 2020) – The ECNL Boys is excited to announce the addition of multiple new clubs into the Mid-Atlantic Conference, and a re-alignment combining both current ECNL Boys member clubs and newly added programs. All clubs will compete together in the 2020-2021 season, in a...




					www.boysecnl.com


----------



## Sunil Illuminati

wc_baller said:


> Boys ECNL just announced some former-DA clubs joining as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ECNL Boys Announces New Clubs and New Mid-Atlantic Conference Alignment
> 
> 
> RICHMOND, VA (April 15, 2020) – The ECNL Boys is excited to announce the addition of multiple new clubs into the Mid-Atlantic Conference, and a re-alignment combining both current ECNL Boys member clubs and newly added programs. All clubs will compete together in the 2020-2021 season, in a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.boysecnl.com


Elvis is dead too


----------



## jpeter

Sunil Illuminati said:


> GS DA wasn't but now they are. They'll have 2 teams. You'll see. No hard feelings. They've joined
> 
> All 3 points are on point


Nice try but not even close you got a single with the pats and that about that.

Well that's like saying Boeing Max is being put back in service since other models are still flying.   

Whatever DA teams played on the past are just that.    New season new teams new players new coaches in case you don't follow along. 2-3 or more teams doesn't change that.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati

jpeter said:


> Nice try but not even close you got a single with the pats and that about that.
> 
> Well that's like saying Boeing Max is being put back in service since other models are still flying.
> 
> Whatever DA teams played on the past are just that.    New season new teams new players new coaches in case you don't follow along. 2-3 or more teams doesn't change that.


Ok. You’ll see


----------



## wc_baller

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Elvis is dead too


OK, carry on then. Go ahead and cry some more about Surf and the Khoury's, Sunil.


----------



## jpeter

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Ok. You’ll see


I don't need to see as I already talked with JN about this last week


----------



## mlx

jpeter said:


> I don't need to see as I already talked with JN about this last week


What are you two measuring your dicks about?


----------



## Banana Hammock

mlx said:


> What are you two measuring your dicks about?


Is the contest still open?


----------



## mlx

Anyway... where's this announcement? I've been refreshing my browser since 8am.


----------



## RedDevilDad

Arsenal’s statement.


----------



## Messi>CR7

RedDevilDad said:


> View attachment 6830
> Arsenal’s statement.


Promotion and relegation?  I like it !


----------



## Son

Arsenal's statement references an announcement from US Soccer Federation?   Did we miss the announcement?


----------



## Ellejustus

Son said:


> Arsenal's statement references an announcement from US Soccer Federation?   Did we miss the announcement?


I think only the Docs at the DA clubs.  No public announcement yet. I heard 1pm? I'm sure their working on the best response.  Stay tune


----------



## Eagle33

Son said:


> Arsenal's statement references an announcement from US Soccer Federation?   Did we miss the announcement?


I'm sure it was announced to all DA's clubs individually.


----------



## galaxydad

What do you think the financials will be for the  post DA clubs. Lots of fully funded kids. Will the low income players be out of luck??


----------



## RedDevilDad

Eagle33 said:


> I'm sure it was announced to all DA's clubs individually.


USSF kept saying different times. Shocker. ECNL posted early despite the intent to let USSF go first.


----------



## 3leches

Two Tier ECNL
ECNL= DA Teams
ECNL 2= All other


----------



## espola

RedDevilDad said:


> USSF kept saying different times. Shocker. ECNL posted early despite the intent to let USSF go first.


Perhaps based on their recent experience they were letting the board, the CEO, and their new legal counsel review the announcement carefully before releasing it.


----------



## MWN

One of the reasons US Soccer is slow to make a full announcement is the MLS needs to get its announcement together regarding the MLS Academies and how those will work from a competitive standpoint.  There is negotiations ongoing to work all these things out.

I was in a conference call with an MLS team reviewing their new program (under an NDA), and I can tell you many things still need to be worked out, but an important piece is now the Training and Solidarity payments of the new look MLS operated Development Academy.  Its not relevant for girls, but the US is starting to grow up and MLS taking on a role it should have accepted 10 years ago.

The biggest loser will likely be the USL when all the dust settles.


----------



## espola

MWN said:


> One of the reasons US Soccer is slow to make a full announcement is the MLS needs to get its announcement together regarding the MLS Academies and how those will work from a competitive standpoint.  There is negotiations ongoing to work all these things out.
> 
> I was in a conference call with an MLS team reviewing their new program (under an NDA), and I can tell you many things still need to be worked out, but an important piece is now the Training and Solidarity payments of the new look MLS operated Development Academy.  Its not relevant for girls, but the US is starting to grow up and MLS taking on a role it should have accepted 10 years ago.
> 
> The biggest loser will likely be the USL when all the dust settles.


So what is the punishment for breaking an NDA?


----------



## YNWA 96

3leches said:


> Two Tier ECNL
> ECNL= DA Teams
> ECNL 2= All other


Why do you think there will be a two tier system?


----------



## Sunil Illuminati

espola said:


> So what is the punishment for breaking an NDA?


They put you in ECNL


----------



## Messi>CR7

YNWA 96 said:


> Why do you think there will be a two tier system?


Read Arsenal's letter to parents in post #103 above.


----------



## mlx

YNWA 96 said:


> Why do you think there will be a two tier system?


The Arsenal letter talks about "Promotion/Relegation".


----------



## foreveryoung

Messi>CR7 said:


> Promotion and relegation?  I like it !


Why? That just makes the recruiting even crazier and encourages unethical behavior by coaches and win at all cost soccer habits. What is the point other than bragging rights?


----------



## justneededaname

Tweet came 10 minutes ago from US Soccer - 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1250554039093334019


----------



## justneededaname

@Kante will we be seeing you and the algo over on the ECNL thread?  I hope the algo lives on. I put away my spreadsheets a couple of years ago and have sincerely enjoyed your posts.


----------



## watfly

YNWA 96 said:


> Why do you think there will be a two tier system?





mlx said:


> The Arsenal letter talks about "Promotion/Relegation".


Its mentioned in Surf's email.  They called the two levels ECNL and ECNL Regional League


----------



## younothat

Fun while it lasted for my player, starting out when it was U13/14 as the smallest and his transformation and game was pretty fun to watch.  Was his last season anyway as he signed for bigger things back in February.   Going to miss youth soccer but everything has a time and place.  All the places and teams he had the privilege to visit and play was fun for him.


----------



## BJ18

Major League Soccer launches new elite competition for youth academies | MLSSoccer.com
					

MLS launches new elite competition for youth academies




					www.mlssoccer.com
				




Looks like the MLS Academies are putting a plan in place.


----------



## BigSoccer

ECNL SW just became a very tough conference.. Phoenix Rising, RSL AZ, maybe Heat , Beach, Surf , Slammers and others... Should be a fun watch once they get back at it.


----------



## YNWA 96

watfly said:


> Its mentioned in Surf's email.  They called the two levels ECNL and ECNL Regional League


Appreciate the responses.  I caught the mention of pro/rel in Arsenals letter but I missed it in Surfs email.


----------



## Eusebio

Major League Soccer Leads Domestic Player Development with Launch of New Elite Competition | MLSSoccer.com
					

MLS Leads Domestic Player Development with launch of New Elite Competition




					www.mlssoccer.com
				






> Major League Soccer today announced it will launch a new elite youth competition platform which will provide year-round high-level matches for MLS club academy teams *and non-MLS academy teams that previously participated in the U.S. Soccer Development Academy*.  The new platform will provide elite competition against domestic and international teams, and MLS is evaluating expanding participation to include clubs beyond the former Development Academy.


If I'm reading this correctly, the MLS will be taking over the entire existing DA circuit on the boy's side?

Obviously the details are still sparse, but this might actually be a positive move. In terms of the "pro" pathway, having the MLS take direct control of the elite youth development is probably ideal and something MLS honesty should have done long ago. Especially if this opens up the real possibility of training compensation and solidarity payments then this could open up a new realm in youth soccer. Instead of the business model of trying to gouge parents, clubs might start focusing on developing players long-term for big professional contracts, which could eventually reduce the costs of youth soccer at least at the DA level.

The way this whole thing has been handled is a complete disaster, but this MLS press release makes me somewhat cautiously optimistic. That said, like younothat, my son played his last DA game this spring so our youth soccer journey (on the boys side, I still got a daughter) has come to an end.


----------



## SoCal23

I'm wondering what age groups will be included in this MLS league. What happens to all the 9 and 10 year olds that LAFC and Galaxy recruited for their teams?


----------



## jpeter

SoCal23 said:


> I'm wondering what age groups will be included in this MLS league. What happens to all the 9 and 10 year olds that LAFC and Galaxy recruited for their teams?


U17 and above is what has been.talked about so far.  Lots of details to be worked out still but some of the DA restrictions like the sub, roster, playing time rules will likely be going away.

Poor TFA just as they finally got a older team in DA, it's over.


----------



## jpeter

SoCal23 said:


> I'm wondering what age groups will be included in this MLS league. What happens to all the 9 and 10 year olds that LAFC and Galaxy recruited for their teams?


There are still other leagues for the youngers like nplwest.


----------



## focomoso

What's going to happen to TFA? Are they just going to go back to beating everyone up in Coast?


----------



## DosEquisGuy

Three divisions for ECNL
BLUE
Arsenal
RSC
FCGS
Strikers
Pats
Surf
10 games - each play each other 2 games

RED - teams from blue play these teams once, red teams play each other twice
Real Salt Lake Arizona
Tucson
Phoenix Rising
Arsenal of Arizona
FC Heat
oops.. forgot one

WHITE - teams from blue play these teams once, white teams play each other twice
Beach FC
Slammers
DMCV Sharks
LA Surf
oops..forgot two

Seems like opportunities for promotion and relegation ...


----------



## jpeter

DosEquisGuy said:


> Three divisions for ECNL
> BLUE
> Arsenal
> RSC
> FCGS
> Strikers
> Pats
> Surf
> 10 games - each play each other 2 games
> 
> RED - teams from blue play these teams once, red teams play each other twice
> Real Salt Lake Arizona
> Tucson
> Phoenix Rising
> Arsenal of Arizona
> FC Heat
> oops.. forgot one
> 
> WHITE - teams from blue play these teams once, white teams play each other twice
> Beach FC
> Slammers
> DMCV Sharks
> LA Surf
> oops..forgot two
> 
> Seems like opportunities for promotion and relegation ...


Good move  for pro/rel

Is that across all age groups are just certain ones?

But dang seems like some of the existing ECNL clubs drew short straws,  if your team made playoffs last year should'nt they be in the first flight?  Beach won the ECNL national championship on the boys side and didn't Slammer make the playoffs?


----------



## Advantage

watfly said:


> Its mentioned in Surf's email.  They called the two levels ECNL and ECNL Regional League


In Arsenal’s case will be more like relegation!!


----------



## jpeter

Banana Hammock said:


> Is the contest still open?


US Youth Soccer Leads Development of New Elite Soccer Platform http://bit.ly/3cmSwAJ

Somebody took another load


----------



## YNWA 96

DosEquisGuy said:


> Three divisions for ECNL
> BLUE
> Arsenal
> RSC
> FCGS
> Strikers
> Pats
> Surf
> 10 games - each play each other 2 games
> 
> RED - teams from blue play these teams once, red teams play each other twice
> Real Salt Lake Arizona
> Tucson
> Phoenix Rising
> Arsenal of Arizona
> FC Heat
> oops.. forgot one
> 
> WHITE - teams from blue play these teams once, white teams play each other twice
> Beach FC
> Slammers
> DMCV Sharks
> LA Surf
> oops..forgot two
> 
> Seems like opportunities for promotion and relegation ...


Looks lke you just grouped the DA teams together and the existing ECNL teams why not mix them up? Just because the teams is coming out of the DA doesnt mean it is better than the existing ECNL teams.  You are missing LA Breakers and FCGS (Pasadena).


----------



## jpeter

Eusebio said:


> Major League Soccer Leads Domestic Player Development with Launch of New Elite Competition | MLSSoccer.com
> 
> 
> MLS Leads Domestic Player Development with launch of New Elite Competition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mlssoccer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I'm reading this correctly, the MLS will be taking over the entire existing DA circuit on the boy's side?
> 
> Obviously the details are still sparse, but this might actually be a positive move. In terms of the "pro" pathway, having the MLS take direct control of the elite youth development is probably ideal and something MLS honesty should have done long ago. Especially if this opens up the real possibility of training compensation and solidarity payments then this could open up a new realm in youth soccer. Instead of the business model of trying to gouge parents, clubs might start focusing on developing players long-term for big professional contracts, which could eventually reduce the costs of youth soccer at least at the DA level.
> 
> The way this whole thing has been handled is a complete disaster, but this MLS press release makes me somewhat cautiously optimistic. That said, like younothat, my son played his last DA game this spring so our youth soccer journey (on the boys side, I still got a daughter) has come to an end.


No it's a new proposed nation wide "elite" platform:

US Youth Soccer Leads Development of New Elite Soccer Platform http://bit.ly/3cmSwAJ


----------



## RedDevilDad

3leches said:


> Two Tier ECNL
> ECNL= DA Teams
> ECNL 2= All other


Close. 
Three... red white and blue. 
tier 3 equals second team from initial top tier. 
top/1 plays 1 twice and 2 once
2 plays 1 once, 2 once and 3 once. 
3 plays 2 once and 3 twice. All tiers eligible for playoffs.


----------



## RedDevilDad

YNWA 96 said:


> Looks lke you just grouped the DA teams together and the existing ECNL teams why not mix them up? Just because the teams is coming out of the DA doesnt mean it is better than the existing ECNL teams.  You are missing LA Breakers and FCGS (Pasadena).


because the DA teams nationwide negotiated together to all start at top tier. 
southwest will also include 2 from NV and 2 from AZ.


----------



## RedDevilDad

Pro/Rel is 2 up/2 down each year. 10 teams per tier.


----------



## YNWA 96

RedDevilDad said:


> because the DA teams nationwide negotiated together to all start at top tier.
> southwest will also include 2 from NV and 2 from AZ.


Thanks, I wasn't aware of the negotiations.


----------



## Eagle33

Looks like they going with 2 tear ECNL.
1st will be their former DA teams and 2nd will be their top SCDSL/Discovery teams. Promotion/relegation between tiers.
2 teams per age group with 6 age groups.
Comparison will be ECNL and EGSL on a girls side.
Nobody knows format or how many games they will play, but looks like scheduling will be done by local clubs DOCs. Most of the games will be local with showcases in Vegas or Phoenix? Driving distance - no flying.


----------



## jpeter

Eagle33 said:


> Looks like they going with 2 tear ECNL.
> 1st will be their former DA teams and 2nd will be their top SCDSL/Discovery teams. Promotion/relegation between tiers.
> 2 teams per age group with 6 age groups.
> Comparison will be ECNL and EGSL on a girls side.
> Nobody knows format or how many games they will play, but looks like scheduling will be done by local clubs DOCs. Most of the games will be local with showcases in Vegas or Phoenix? Driving distance - no flying.


Not really some clubs and players will be playing in the MLS league and USL this is more like a expensive scdsl version 2 or something. .


----------



## gottouch

DosEquisGuy said:


> Three divisions for ECNL
> BLUE
> Arsenal
> RSC
> FCGS
> Strikers
> Pats
> Surf
> 10 games - each play each other 2 games
> 
> RED - teams from blue play these teams once, red teams play each other twice
> Real Salt Lake Arizona
> Tucson
> Phoenix Rising
> Arsenal of Arizona
> FC Heat
> oops.. forgot one
> 
> WHITE - teams from blue play these teams once, white teams play each other twice
> Beach FC
> Slammers
> DMCV Sharks
> LA Surf
> oops..forgot two
> 
> Seems like opportunities for promotion and relegation ...


So what are the other oops...forgot...clubs????


----------



## DosEquisGuy

gottouch said:


> So what are the other oops...forgot...clubs????


Cali Blue: play each other twice, play red once
RSC, Pats, FCGS, Strikers, Surf, Arsenal

Red: play blue once, play red once, play white once
AZ Arsenal, Phoenix Rising, FC Tucson, RSL Az, FC Heat

White: play each other twice, play red once
Slammers, Sharks, LA Surf, LA Breakers, Legends, Beach FC, West Coast FC


----------



## vegasguy

Not Tiers more like sub conferences.  Think SEC east and west in football.
It is how it is right now except with two splits instead of three.


----------



## gottouch

vegasguy said:


> Not Tiers more like sub conferences.  Think SEC east and west in football.
> It is how it is right now except with two splits instead of three.


Except East and West is broken up by location, not perceived skill level. And are you saying there are two tiers not three?


----------



## jpeter

vegasguy said:


> Not Tiers more like sub conferences.  Think SEC east and west in football.
> It is how it is right now except with two splits instead of three.


Do you like the new scheduling?

Seems like the out of state teams get the best of scheduling since they get to play all 3 sub conference not just two like the socal ones, less repetition &  more teams you don't play so often.


----------



## YNWA 96

DosEquisGuy said:


> Cali Blue: play each other twice, play red once
> RSC, Pats, FCGS, Strikers, Surf, Arsenal
> 
> Red: play blue once, play red once, play white once
> AZ Arsenal, Phoenix Rising, FC Tucson, RSL Az, FC Heat
> 
> White: play each other twice, play red once
> Slammers, Sharks, LA Surf, LA Breakers, Legends, Beach FC, West Coast FC


You are missing FCGS in the White bracket,  FCGS could potentially have two teams (Pasadena ECNL and Corona DA). The White bracket looks overloaded compared to the Blue


----------



## vegasguy

I am saying tier two is setup for less travel for socal.
  All qualify for the same national championship and will play at the same level at showcases.  If this is the case then why present one better than the other.  Guarantee there are tier two teams beating tier one.  Not that it truly matters it is about getting better and exposure in the long run.


----------



## gottouch

vegasguy said:


> I am saying tier two is setup for less travel for socal.
> All qualify for the same national championship and will play at the same level at showcases.  If this is the case then why present one better than the other.  Guarantee there are tier two teams beating tier one.  Not that it truly matters it is about getting better and exposure in the long run.


I see your point but then why not have south and north. FCG, Real So Cal are quite north and Surf in San Diego; these are not for geographic proximity. But your other points make a lot of sense.


----------



## lafalafa

vegasguy said:


> I am saying tier two is setup for less travel for socal.
> All qualify for the same national championship and will play at the same level at showcases.  If this is the case then why present one better than the other.  Guarantee there are tier two teams beating tier one.  Not that it truly matters it is about getting better and exposure in the long run.


Qualify for championship? Thought only 2 teams qualify for that once they reach u18/2003?  2 teams out of 18 is tough. Combined age groups for u18/19. 

For socal playing 5-6 teams out of state once each is what the posted above indicates.  3x trips or so is not bad but couldn't you just play at one of the Vegas tourneys once like that showcase one to get in four games on one trip.


----------



## Kante

jpeter said:


> Do you like the new scheduling?
> 
> Seems like the out of state teams get the best of scheduling since they get to play all 3 sub conference not just two like the socal ones, less repetition &  more teams you don't play so often.


JP, how would you compare the current non-DA ECNL to CSL Premier or the CRL? 

Also, any rumblings on what's happening with Barca, one of the non-MLS DA teams included in the MLS league?


----------



## thedudeabides

Kante said:


> JP, how would you compare the current non-DA ECNL to CSL Premier or the CRL?
> 
> Also, any rumblings on what's happening with Barca, one of the non-MLS DA teams included in the MLS league?


US Youth Soccer rankings has consistently demonstrated that CSL premier on the boys side has a higher average composite score for their teams than all of the top flights in the other leagues and yes that includes DA. Promotion/Relegation works.


----------



## jpeter

Kante said:


> JP, how would you compare the current non-DA ECNL to CSL Premier or the CRL?
> 
> Also, any rumblings on what's happening with Barca, one of the non-MLS DA teams included in the MLS league?


CSL premier was a 11 game fall season + league cup (optional) teams are all over the place but at least in socal for example:




__





						COAST SOCCER LEAGUE 2019 Standings for BOYS UNDER 15 Premier
					





					coastsoccer.us
				




CRL another 7 games + playoffs but at the complexes over 4-5 weekends.

ECNL 20 odd games in Fall & Spring + ~2- 3 showcases where you play 3 games or so.  Kind of a very long break between the fall & spring for socal.  Regular fall ends in late Nov but didn't start back up or planned to until late March.  Something to do with HS seasons being different cross the county. showcases thet try to match you up with like record teams from other parts of the country but SW seems to do very well in that regard.

Haven't heard about  Barcelona academy is the new MLS one but that makes sense but wonder about the geography if they will be others they could play locally?   Liverpool (formerly Galaxy OC) academy locally I head was inquiring about this  new  league.


----------



## Kante

jpeter said:


> CSL premier was a 11 game fall season + league cup (optional) teams are all over the place but at least in socal for example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COAST SOCCER LEAGUE 2019 Standings for BOYS UNDER 15 Premier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> coastsoccer.us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CRL another 7 games + playoffs but at the complexes over 4-5 weekends.
> 
> ECNL 20 odd games in Fall & Spring + ~2- 3 showcases where you play 3 games or so.  Kind of a very long break between the fall & spring for socal.  Regular fall ends in late Nov but didn't start back up or planned to until late March.  Something to do with HS seasons being different cross the county. showcases thet try to match you up with like record teams from other parts of the country but SW seems to do very well in that regard.
> 
> Haven't heard about  Barcelona academy is the new MLS one but that makes sense but wonder about the geography if they will be others they could play locally?   Liverpool (formerly Galaxy OC) academy locally I head was inquiring about this  new  league.


got it. competitively, how would you compare/rank ecnl to CSL pre and CRL? 

checked out the ysr rankings, and based on teams am familiar with, the dude seems close to right in his assessment. your thoughts?


----------



## jpeter

Kante said:


> got it. competitively, how would you compare/rank ecnl to CSL pre and CRL?
> 
> checked out the ysr rankings, and based on teams am familiar with, the dude seems close to right in his assessment. your thoughts?


Tough one don't know many teams anymore but a handful of ones in the oldest age group(s) and haven't followed CRL for many years.  My recollections about CRL & CSL might be stale since its been about 5-6 years since ive even seen any of those games.

Ussda is about the only measuring stick im still some what current with for u16+  ECNL is more flexible with how they let clubs run there programs, don't prescribed a certain  style of play, formations so more freedom where your not required to necessarily train 4 days a week.  Game days are about the same with players bench's, drinks provided by the host.

One measuring stick is how well they attract college coaches and I will say ECNL does a better job of that vs the others mentioned.

Level of play well I'm probably bias but if you value or prefer possession and playing out the back vs direct play, ECNL was a notch below DA but ahead of CSL last time I noticed.  CRL seemed slightly better vs CSL in that regard but things may have changed over the years.

The other thing to consider is the combined age groups, ECNL does this for there oldest group like DA did u18(03)/19(02) is combined but CSL is pretty much straight calendar year but they almost run out of older comp in some brackets/groups.

Personally opinion is ecnl probably would only be worth considering up until u17.  Past that u18/19 is combined and kids that age have a lot going on in the spring normally. HS seniors are kind of late for recruitment in their final spring but and play seemed to be dropping off for them anyway.  Very limited playoffs for that group anyways.


----------



## Kante

on boys ECNL being better at attracting college coaches, is that because of ECNL connections, at their tournaments, because of their reputation, at their games, other?


----------



## jpeter

Kante said:


> on boys ECNL being better at attracting college coaches, is that because of ECNL connections, at their tournaments, because of their reputation, at their games, other?


Showcase or tournaments, they can see many teams & players all in one place from all over the country is the main hook.  

Only been around for 2 seasons so it's not nearly at big as the girls program or what DA was,. For example there was 80+ college types during the DA playoff, spread out but it was thick with logo clothing everywhere I look practically.    The one ECNL event at SD that I attended seemed much more low-key and I didn't even notice half as many scouts but maybe thet forgot to wear those college hats, jackets, or shirts.


----------



## vegasguy

Only been around for 2 seasons so it's not nearly at big as the girls program or what DA was,. For example there was 80+ college types during the DA playoff, spread out but it was thick with logo clothing everywhere I look practically.    The one ECNL event at SD that I attended seemed much more low-key and I didn't even notice half as many scouts but maybe thet forgot to wear those college hats, jackets, or shirts.
[/QUOTE]

Second year was better for sure.  The Vegas Event was pretty good.   On the gear I saw over those three days was much better than even last years events.  It was never 80deep like DA but at one of our 03 matches there were between 15 &20 more than half larger schools.  So it is growing.  I think the Southwest league will continue to attract attention and grow going forward.    Hopefully we are back sooner than later.


----------



## Futbol30

Forgive me, I skimmed this rather quickly but the two tier ECNL you're speaking of is already taking place, and has since this past (current) season. Are you talking about the Boys ECNL now having two tiers? On the girls side, there is already an ECNL for the 1st teams, and ECNL RL for the 2nd teams. So, will this be a new thing on the boys end?

Sidebar, anyone know what is happening with WCFC? I knew of some girls that were planning on heading there for the DA team, It doesn't sound like they are even in the ECNL?? 

I do like the relegation/promotion the will be implemented in 20-21 for ECNL

This whole situation is crazy and I'm still trying to understand everything as the information slowly trickles out. 

One thing is for certain, if and when we are able to return to sports (when it is as safe as possible) the soccer we knew pre-Covid-19 will look much different as far as teams are concerned. 

Good Luck to everyone out there with their decisions, etc. 

I told all my kids, all of this change means one thing: Continue to work hard, train, be disciplined and enjoy the game and if we stay put (hopefully we will) great, if we end up moving, that's okay too so long as the hard work and commitment continues... 

Sorry for babbling only on coffee #1 may need to switch to something stronger pretty soon here...


----------



## watfly

Futbol30 said:


> Forgive me, I skimmed this rather quickly but the two tier ECNL you're speaking of is already taking place, and has since this past (current) season. Are you talking about the Boys ECNL now having two tiers? On the girls side, there is already an ECNL for the 1st teams, and ECNL RL for the 2nd teams. So, will this be a new thing on the boys end?
> 
> Sidebar, anyone know what is happening with WCFC? I knew of some girls that were planning on heading there for the DA team, It doesn't sound like they are even in the ECNL??
> 
> I do like the relegation/promotion the will be implemented in 20-21 for ECNL
> 
> This whole situation is crazy and I'm still trying to understand everything as the information slowly trickles out.
> 
> One thing is for certain, if and when we are able to return to sports (when it is as safe as possible) the soccer we knew pre-Covid-19 will look much different as far as teams are concerned.
> 
> Good Luck to everyone out there with their decisions, etc.
> 
> I told all my kids, all of this change means one thing: Continue to work hard, train, be disciplined and enjoy the game and if we stay put (hopefully we will) great, if we end up moving, that's okay too so long as the hard work and commitment continues...
> 
> Sorry for babbling only on coffee #1 may need to switch to something stronger pretty soon here...


Can you please take your ECNL talk to the ECNL forum.  This forum is for MLS DA


----------



## Futbol30

watfly said:


> Can you please take your ECNL talk to the ECNL forum.  This forum is for MLS DA


@watfly Aw crap you're right... my bad it's hard to tell which thread is what.. my eyes are still bleeding from reading the 50 pages of "DA ending" threads hahahahaha 

Sorry, let me grab that stronger drink and head back to ECNL thread... and hopefully this post won't lead to any Covid-19 stat battles 

Cheers everyone!!


----------



## jpeter

watfly said:


> Can you please take your ECNL talk to the ECNL forum.  This forum is for MLS DA


Dom migt want a make a new forum. Boys development academy had many members besides MLS.

The new MLS / USYS "elite" league is going to include non-mls teams also so not really that cut & dry. 

ECNL does have the own forum but girls & boys are mixed.


----------



## Son

jpeter said:


> No it's a new proposed nation wide "elite" platform:
> 
> US Youth Soccer Leads Development of New Elite Soccer Platform http://bit.ly/3cmSwAJ


For years, MLS DAs wanted to leave the DA to form their own league for the 26 MLS academies teams.  The complaint from the MLS DAs was that the non-MLS teams did not offer meaningful enough competition.

What US Youth Soccer is doing is it is just creating a new league with clubs outside the DA, who are not necessarily the most competitive teams.    Many of the better former non-MLS DAs already committed to the ECNL.  The new MLS/ USYS elite league appears to be just looking for numbers; it is not going to offer more meaningful competition to the MLS academies.

Once again, two separate "elite" leagues just ensures us once again that the best teams are not playing against one another.


----------



## thedudeabides

Kante said:


> got it. competitively, how would you compare/rank ecnl to CSL pre and CRL?
> 
> checked out the ysr rankings, and based on teams am familiar with, the dude seems close to right in his assessment. your thoughts?


Not really apples to apples. CSL Premier is pretty strong top to bottom where the bottom of CRL is pretty weak because teams can get a favorable pool or have a lucky weekend and qualify . CRL is also a side league like NPL so I don't really consider it because it draws from all the other leagues. I have analyzed the primary fall leagues (DA, ECNL, CSL Premier, SCDSL Discovery, and Presidio flt 1) and CSL Premier was slightly above DA and ECNL and significantly above SCDSL and Presidio in YSR composite rankings for boys teams at 3 age groups.  Interestingly many of the teams that get relegated in CSL Premier are former DA teams that aged out of academy. Instead of earning it over years they get a weak pool in CRL, qualify for premier then struggle. That was a good indicator the DA's were failing in developing quality players. 

Aside from all that, people need to stop thinking their letters are better. I am only making a strong statistical and anecdotal case here for CSL because they have been trashed mercilessly by the DA and ECNL snobs when real results painted a different picture. The hard truth is promotion/relegation works because the necessity to win does foster development but it negates the effects of pay to play and politics. Let me say that again, winning and development are NOT mutually exclusive.

What really needs to happen on the boys side is the top 10-15 teams from all the various leagues within a 3-5 hour drive of an MLS team should be invited to compete in a league with that MLS team. It should be a promotion/relegation system with the MLS Academy not ever getting relegated. The other team are there to support the MLS team and they should naturally be near the top because they will constantly be recruiting players from the other teams and bringing them into hopefully a residential academy structure. It's simple and it would work.


----------



## jpeter

Son said:


> For years, MLS DAs wanted to leave the DA to form their own league for the 26 MLS academies teams.  The complaint from the MLS DAs was that the non-MLS teams did not offer meaningful enough competition.
> 
> What US Youth Soccer is doing is it is just creating a new league with clubs outside the DA, who are not necessarily the most competitive teams.    Many of the better former non-MLS DAs already committed to the ECNL.  The new MLS/ USYS elite league appears to be just looking for numbers; it is not going to offer more meaningful competition to the MLS academies.
> 
> Once again, two separate "elite" leagues just ensures us once again that the best teams are not playing against one another.


Yeah unfortunately some of that.  MLS has the facilities, $$, and clout and they sorely need a way to try to recoup some of those millions they spend on youth development.  This is one way they think they can get that under control and there is going to be a new solidarity type system put in place and some point.

It's like a merry-go-round...  clubs that where put in DA tier-2 didn't like it and wanted to get out so a new league guarantee them tier 1 and the cycle repeats.   Just like CSL granted some clubs premier after there da teams aged out or they agreed to bring teams over.

SCDSL seems to be no different they let "new" clubs jump the line.  All this does is disillusion existing members which then seek to switch to some other newer league to get better status. The same clubs moving to ECNL did they same sort of thing in DSL. Like version 2 or something.

As far as who committed to what it's up to the players and parents.  There is going to be a big shakeup.  Just like the clubs that switched leagues players & coaches don't necessarily transfer over and the team are never the same. When a club is in many different leagues like CSL, Crl, Npl, Ecnl, Usl and this new one all at the same time players tend to move around.   Some players won't be able to afford travel soccer anymore and without the DA club subsidies (20-30k per team) and travel scholarships it's going to get even more expensive.


----------



## Dargle

In SoCal, I expect the new USYS venture is primarily for the girls DA clubs that aren't going to ECNL.  It doesn't look like too many boys DA teams aren't already going to ECNL, the MLS league, or the USL league.  If one formed, it seems like it would be San Diego and Arizona-oriented (although it might make more sense for those former AZ DA teams to join Boys ECNL and create a robust AZ section with the pre-existing four Boys ECNL teams in AZ).

Clubs putting DA teams in ECNL (or already had Boys ECNL too)

SD Surf
LA Surf
Real SoCal
FC Golden State
Legends
West Coast (OC Surf)
Pateadores
Strikers
Arsenal

Clubs putting DA teams in MLS operated league (some just rumored)

LA Galaxy
LAFC
LAUFA
TFA
Albion
Nomads

Clubs possibly putting DA teams in USL League

VC Fusion

Unknown and therefore candidates for a possible USYSA Elite league

Santa Barbara
San Diego SC
Murrieta Surf
City San Diego (LA Galaxy SD)
Chula Vista
Arizona DA teams?


----------



## vegasguy

gottouch said:


> I see your point but then why not have south and north. FCG, Real So Cal are quite north and Surf in San Diego; these are not for geographic proximity. But your other points make a lot of sense.


I think the theory is that LV and PHX/TUC are close enough and they are used to the longer travel.  Just my thought.  We travel to Surf 5.5hrs.  Man City etc.  For us Phx/Tuc is 6hrs or a 45min flight.  You socal people would die being in a car in a desert for that long.  That is a joke but there are a lot of complaints about travel.  As for why the did what they did in CA is you all are at most traveling 4.5hrs or so.  Balanced travel time I guess.    If you look now in the ECNL age groups southwest used to be two divisioned prior to their recent change.  PHX and RSZ AZ were tops in 03 for the last two years their other teams are quality too.  why are they in t2? 

As for the Championship qualifying, it was supposed to be the top 5 at 03 this year.  Yes at the composite it becomes one but all of that has changed year to year to tweak things.  I assume more tweaks to scheduling and qualifying are going to occur.  

Again if it is super important to be in a top tier then great.  Like I said, I have been happy  with the exposure this year and South Carolina would have been really good too.   My son loves the league and has friends at most of the teams across the landscape.  I hope that continues as we head into what could be his last season.


----------



## jpeter

Dargle said:


> In SoCal, I expect the new USYS venture is primarily for the girls DA clubs that aren't going to ECNL.  It doesn't look like too many boys DA teams aren't already going to ECNL, the MLS league, or the USL league.  If one formed, it seems like it would be San Diego and Arizona-oriented (although it might make more sense for those former AZ DA teams to join Boys ECNL and create a robust AZ section with the pre-existing four Boys ECNL teams in AZ).
> 
> Clubs putting DA teams in ECNL (or already had Boys ECNL too)
> 
> SD Surf
> LA Surf
> Real SoCal
> FC Golden State
> Legends
> West Coast (OC Surf)
> Pateadores
> Strikers
> Arsenal
> 
> Clubs putting DA teams in MLS operated league (some just rumored)
> 
> LA Galaxy
> LAFC
> LAUFA
> TFA
> Albion
> Nomads
> 
> Clubs possibly putting DA teams in USL League
> 
> VC Fusion
> 
> Unknown and therefore candidates for a possible USYSA Elite league
> 
> Santa Barbara
> San Diego SC
> Murrieta Surf
> City San Diego (LA Galaxy SD)
> Chula Vista
> Arizona DA teams?


It's not one for one or one for all either can be in both. They will be at least 2 that are planning both from what I've been told.

Don't forget there can be cross play among the leagues now.  Both ECNL and MLS/USYS have came out and said they will be "scheduling" games between clubs in each. Is that friendly games, tournaments or what exactly don't know yet?


----------



## thedudeabides

Son said:


> For years, MLS DAs wanted to leave the DA to form their own league for the 26 MLS academies teams.  The complaint from the MLS DAs was that the non-MLS teams did not offer meaningful enough competition.
> 
> What US Youth Soccer is doing is it is just creating a new league with clubs outside the DA, who are not necessarily the most competitive teams.    Many of the better former non-MLS DAs already committed to the ECNL.  The new MLS/ USYS elite league appears to be just looking for numbers; it is not going to offer more meaningful competition to the MLS academies.
> 
> Once again, two separate "elite" leagues just ensures us once again that the best teams are not playing against one another.


There are several club teams in California that can beat the earthquakes and galaxy academy squads. The bottom 4-5 non-mls DA's were bad in SoCal. They aren't even top 50 in socal and the disparities between mls and non mls da's in other parts of the country are even more pronounced. Most of these non mls da's were simply being used so the mls da's didn't have to fly all over the place. The best club teams against the mls academies is the best approach if they make it promotion/relegation.


----------



## Zvezdas

Based on our club meeting there is no prom/rel for boys ecnl for 2020/21.


----------



## soccerfan123

vegasguy said:


> I think the theory is that LV and PHX/TUC are close enough and they are used to the longer travel.  Just my thought.  We travel to Surf 5.5hrs.  Man City etc.  For us Phx/Tuc is 6hrs or a 45min flight.  You socal people would die being in a car in a desert for that long.  That is a joke but there are a lot of complaints about travel.  As for why the did what they did in CA is you all are at most traveling 4.5hrs or so.  Balanced travel time I guess.    If you look now in the ECNL age groups southwest used to be two divisioned prior to their recent change.  PHX and RSZ AZ were tops in 03 for the last two years their other teams are quality too.  why are they in t2?
> 
> As for the Championship qualifying, it was supposed to be the top 5 at 03 this year.  Yes at the composite it becomes one but all of that has changed year to year to tweak things.  I assume more tweaks to scheduling and qualifying are going to occur.
> 
> Again if it is super important to be in a top tier then great.  Like I said, I have been happy  with the exposure this year and South Carolina would have been really good too.   My son loves the league and has friends at most of the teams across the landscape.  I hope that continues as we head into what could be his last season.


I do not think its tiers, it is regional grouping I thought but I cud be wrong. but one group wants to skip high school season


----------



## Kante

thedudeabides said:


> Not really apples to apples. CSL Premier is pretty strong top to bottom where the bottom of CRL is pretty weak because teams can get a favorable pool or have a lucky weekend and qualify . CRL is also a side league like NPL so I don't really consider it because it draws from all the other leagues. I have analyzed the primary fall leagues (DA, ECNL, CSL Premier, SCDSL Discovery, and Presidio flt 1) and CSL Premier was slightly above DA and ECNL and significantly above SCDSL and Presidio in YSR composite rankings for boys teams at 3 age groups.  Interestingly many of the teams that get relegated in CSL Premier are former DA teams that aged out of academy. Instead of earning it over years they get a weak pool in CRL, qualify for premier then struggle. That was a good indicator the DA's were failing in developing quality players.
> 
> Aside from all that, people need to stop thinking their letters are better. I am only making a strong statistical and anecdotal case here for CSL because they have been trashed mercilessly by the DA and ECNL snobs when real results painted a different picture. The hard truth is promotion/relegation works because the necessity to win does foster development but it negates the effects of pay to play and politics. Let me say that again, winning and development are NOT mutually exclusive.
> 
> What really needs to happen on the boys side is the top 10-15 teams from all the various leagues within a 3-5 hour drive of an MLS team should be invited to compete in a league with that MLS team. It should be a promotion/relegation system with the MLS Academy not ever getting relegated. The other team are there to support the MLS team and they should naturally be near the top because they will constantly be recruiting players from the other teams and bringing them into hopefully a residential academy structure. It's simple and it would work.


Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)

So what's best way how to get more visibility about the boys CSL premier teams/players to college scouts?

Seems like the college scouts are looking for one/a couple big tournament(s) to go to and/or relying on existing relationships with connected docs/coaches.

ECNL Boys seems to be providing that and likely the MLS League will.

How does CSL premier compete with that? The core piece - the player quality/quality of play - is there and that's critical but not enough.


----------



## soccerfan123

Zvezdas said:


> Based on our club meeting there is no prom/rel for boys ecnl for 2020/21.


 pro - rele would be gr8 but how do you do it with different groups. bottom one from each group?.adn would it be teams or clubs? Clubs only way to organize logistically I guess


----------



## soccerfan123

Kante said:


> Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)
> 
> So what's best way how to get more visibility about the boys CSL premier teams/players to college scouts?
> 
> Seems like the college scouts are looking for one/a couple big tournament(s) to go to and/or relying on existing relationships with connected docs/coaches.
> 
> ECNL Boys seems to be providing that and likely the MLS League will.
> 
> How does CSL premier compete with that? The core piece - the player quality/quality of play - is there and that's critical but not enough.


YSR is very inaccurate for the older ages, like 14 and older. it rewards blowing out terrible teams way to much so hard schedule teams are not rewarded unless they are so good they beat everybody


----------



## Son

Another complaint former MLS DAs had was that they did not want to run U12, U14, U5 programs.   They wanted to operate only U17 and U19.   Now it sounds like they are running a full league across all ages.  If that is the case, will the new USYS league split up the U16 and U17?

I anticipate that ECNL will have U16, U17 and U18.


----------



## Kante

Dargle said:


> In SoCal, I expect the new USYS venture is primarily for the girls DA clubs that aren't going to ECNL.  It doesn't look like too many boys DA teams aren't already going to ECNL, the MLS league, or the USL league.  If one formed, it seems like it would be San Diego and Arizona-oriented (although it might make more sense for those former AZ DA teams to join Boys ECNL and create a robust AZ section with the pre-existing four Boys ECNL teams in AZ).
> 
> Clubs putting DA teams in ECNL (or already had Boys ECNL too)
> 
> SD Surf
> LA Surf
> Real SoCal
> FC Golden State
> Legends
> West Coast (OC Surf)
> Pateadores
> Strikers
> Arsenal
> 
> Clubs putting DA teams in MLS operated league (some just rumored)
> 
> LA Galaxy
> LAFC
> LAUFA
> TFA
> Albion
> Nomads
> 
> Clubs possibly putting DA teams in USL League
> 
> VC Fusion
> 
> Unknown and therefore candidates for a possible USYSA Elite league
> 
> Santa Barbara
> San Diego SC
> Murrieta Surf
> City San Diego (LA Galaxy SD)
> Chula Vista
> Arizona DA teams?


could see MLS taking TFA, and maybe Barca (their location is a tough travel)


----------



## Kante

soccerfan123 said:


> YSR is very inaccurate for the older ages, like 14 and older. it rewards blowing out terrible teams way to much so hard schedule teams are not rewarded unless they are so good they beat everybody


are there a couple examples of this inaccuracy you could cite? eg, teams that are ranked either too low or too high?


----------



## Dargle

jpeter said:


> It's not one for one or one for all either can be in both. They will be at least 2 that are planning both from what I've been told.
> 
> Don't forget there can be cross play among the leagues now.  Both ECNL and MLS/USYS have came out and said they will be "scheduling" games between clubs in each. Is that friendly games, tournaments or what exactly don't know yet?


Good point.  Inter-league play would be good (and would happen anyway in tournaments when those return), but having teams in two different leagues doesn't mean that both teams would be at the same level.  It may just replicate the ECNL/ECRL divide for girls and then the question will be where are the clubs putting their A team.


----------



## Kante

Son said:


> Another complaint former MLS DAs had was that they did not want to run U12, U14, U5 programs.   They wanted to operate only U17 and U19.   Now it sounds like they are running a full league across all ages.  If that is the case, will the new USYS league split up the U16 and U17?
> 
> I anticipate that ECNL will have U16, U17 and U18.


the u16 as standalone age group is goodness.


----------



## Son

thedudeabides said:


> There are several club teams in California that can beat the earthquakes and galaxy academy squads. The bottom 4-5 non-mls DA's were bad in SoCal. They aren't even top 50 in socal and the disparities between mls and non mls da's in other parts of the country are even more pronounced. Most of these non mls da's were simply being used so the mls da's didn't have to fly all over the place. The best club teams against the mls academies is the best approach if they make it promotion/relegation.


Are Albion, LAUFC, Nomads, TFA and Barca traditionally strong boys teams?


----------



## Bubba

Son said:


> For years, MLS DAs wanted to leave the DA to form their own league for the 26 MLS academies teams.  The complaint from the MLS DAs was that the non-MLS teams did not offer meaningful enough competition.
> 
> What US Youth Soccer is doing is it is just creating a new league with clubs outside the DA, who are not necessarily the most competitive teams.    Many of the better former non-MLS DAs already committed to the ECNL.  The new MLS/ USYS elite league appears to be just looking for numbers; it is not going to offer more meaningful competition to the MLS academies.
> 
> Once again, two separate "elite" leagues just ensures us once again that the best teams are not playing against one another.


If MLS is trying to be like the r


Kante said:


> Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)
> 
> So what's best way how to get more visibility about the boys CSL premier teams/players to college scouts?
> 
> Seems like the college scouts are looking for one/a couple big tournament(s) to go to and/or relying on existing relationships with connected docs/coaches.
> 
> ECNL Boys seems to be providing that and likely the MLS League will.
> 
> How does CSL premier compete with that? The core piece - the player quality/quality of play - is there and that's critical but not enough.


Everyone worries to much about which league your son plays.  During league play its when colleges are in season. Coaches are really busy. Get on a good team with a good coach , play major touraments . Remember you are competing now with foreign players that are on every college teams also.


----------



## jpeter

Kante said:


> the u16 as standalone age group is goodness.


MLS/USYS calendar year group with the last one combined u18/19 is what I heard.  Would be surprised if ECNL is any different   

With calendar year and High school  ages there is really not a  economical or a good way to break those groups up yet unless you just get rid of u19 but that would leave some players out.  Participation really declines once you a  hit u18 anyway so competition would suffer is the other thought by going that way.


----------



## Dargle

Kante said:


> Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)
> 
> So what's best way how to get more visibility about the boys CSL premier teams/players to college scouts?
> 
> Seems like the college scouts are looking for one/a couple big tournament(s) to go to and/or relying on existing relationships with connected docs/coaches.
> 
> ECNL Boys seems to be providing that and likely the MLS League will.
> 
> How does CSL premier compete with that? The core piece - the player quality/quality of play - is there and that's critical but not enough.


CSL Premier is helped by two things:  (1) Geography - CSL has clubs in and around soccer-crazy downtown LA and the SFV that serve kids who can't drive to practices all over the area for DA, and (2) DA's funnel structure and prohibition on HS - many CSL premier teams have kids who returned from DA for various reasons.  

Some problems, though, from a college scouting perspective is that they no longer have the one stop shopping of having all games in a central spot like UC Irvine (Silverlakes helps, but it's not complete), a decent percentage of kids can't afford or qualify for college (scouts don't want to waste their time on kids who won't or can't go to their schools), and some of the clubs are pretty small and disorganized so that their players are not promoted and educated about college the way that they are in the largest clubs.


----------



## jpeter

Son said:


> Are Albion, LAUFC, Nomads, TFA and Barca traditionally strong boys teams?


TFA yes, Barca yes but they are new. Mixed bag on the others but who knows now?  going to be a shakeup & lots of movement either way.  

This a lower cost leagues for those clubs and more will seek those avenues.


----------



## thedudeabides

Kante said:


> Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)
> 
> So what's best way how to get more visibility about the boys CSL premier teams/players to college scouts?
> 
> Seems like the college scouts are looking for one/a couple big tournament(s) to go to and/or relying on existing relationships with connected docs/coaches.
> 
> ECNL Boys seems to be providing that and likely the MLS League will.
> 
> How does CSL premier compete with that? The core piece - the player quality/quality of play - is there and that's critical but not enough.


I have tracked the results for years and the games I saw, the DA teams usually lost/won to non-DA teams according to the expectations of YSR predictions. The only ones that seem skewed are LAFC and many of the MLS DA's around the country. LAFC should be even higher than they are in composite score and I think that is because they play their subs a lot and early on in the game against the lower level DA's. In fact, LAFC has sent their younger squad to play low level DA's and they still won easily. YSR doesn't know that, it just inputs the data. Had they sent their age appropriate team it would have been a massacre. As I have previously noted the disparities between mls and non mls da's outside California are even larger. So< i expect they are doing the same; they are playing their subs more frerquently and maybe sending younger squads against weaker teams. It's all just more proof that the non mls DA's were a poorly executed plan. Don't even get me started on ODP, what a cluster f***.

You are correct, ECNL seems to have a prestige advantage over the other leagues, especially on the girls' side but I only scout on the boys side and honestly, I follow players and teams not leagues and clubs. Club prestige and history means very little to me until it actually translates to real success. SCDSL copied CSL by having one primary place to play and that definitely helps scouting in practical terms. CSL sends out over 2000 premier guides to coaches and scouts and I think the other leagues will follow suit with print or online links to all those teams and players. But to me the promotion/relegation must be the difference in why a CSL team that is frequently regarded as inferior because of a stigma, frequently beats the top teams from the other leagues that claim superiority. Once again, huge difference between girls and boys regarding these leagues.


----------



## watfly

Time will tell on which of the two programs MLS/USYS vs. ECNL will provide a better platform and be more competitive.  My speculation is that both programs will have something to offer from a competitive standpoint and that it will likely vary from region.  I expect that ECNL will have an easier time getting the ball rolling.  However, the backing of USYS for the MLS league is a big deal.  USYS is certainly more competent than US Soccer, but that's a pretty low bar.  If I had to guess over the long term I think ECNL will be more competitive for the girls and USYS may be more successful for the boys.  Of course, my crystal ball is really cloudy...I don't even know what day it is.

I'm curious to see how ECNL handles pro/rel...whether its team or club based.


----------



## Kante

Dargle said:


> CSL Premier is helped by two things:  (1) Geography - CSL has clubs in and around soccer-crazy downtown LA and the SFV that serve kids who can't drive to practices all over the area for DA, and (2) DA's funnel structure and prohibition on HS - many CSL premier teams have kids who returned from DA for various reasons.
> 
> Some problems, though, from a college scouting perspective is that they no longer have the one stop shopping of having all games in a central spot like UC Irvine (Silverlakes helps, but it's not complete), a decent percentage of kids can't afford or qualify for college (scouts don't want to waste their time on kids who won't or can't go to their schools), and some of the clubs are pretty small and disorganized so that their players are not promoted and educated about college the way that they are in the largest clubs.


helpful. interesting problem to solve... given that the apple cart has been up-ended, hopefully there's an open-ness to new ideas. 

for example, seems like it could now make sense to do the youth equivalent of the US Open Cup.


----------



## vegasguy

jpeter said:


> MLS/USYS calendar year group with the last one combined u18/19 is what I heard.  Would be surprised if ECNL is any different
> 
> With calendar year and High school  ages there is really not a  economical or a good way to break those groups up yet unless you just get rid of u19 but that would leave some players out.  Participation really declines once you a  hit u18 anyway so competition would suffer is the other thought by going that way.


With a potential delay or cancellation of college play this season and recruiting in up in the air, I could see more gap year players playing u18/u19 which would make this age group a potential fun watch.


----------



## Kante

thedudeabides said:


> I have tracked the results for years and the games I saw, the DA teams usually lost/won to non-DA teams according to the expectations of YSR predictions. The only ones that seem skewed are LAFC and many of the MLS DA's around the country. LAFC should be even higher than they are in composite score and I think that is because they play their subs a lot and early on in the game against the lower level DA's. In fact, LAFC has sent their younger squad to play low level DA's and they still won easily. YSR doesn't know that, it just inputs the data. Had they sent their age appropriate team it would have been a massacre. As I have previously noted the disparities between mls and non mls da's outside California are even larger. So< i expect they are doing the same; they are playing their subs more frerquently and maybe sending younger squads against weaker teams. It's all just more proof that the non mls DA's were a poorly executed plan. Don't even get me started on ODP, what a cluster f***.
> 
> You are correct, ECNL seems to have a prestige advantage over the other leagues, especially on the girls' side but I only scout on the boys side and honestly, I follow players and teams not leagues and clubs. Club prestige and history means very little to me until it actually translates to real success. SCDSL copied CSL by having one primary place to play and that definitely helps scouting in practical terms. CSL sends out over 2000 premier guides to coaches and scouts and I think the other leagues will follow suit with print or online links to all those teams and players. But to me the promotion/relegation must be the difference in why a CSL team that is frequently regarded as inferior because of a stigma, frequently beats the top teams from the other leagues that claim superiority. Once again, huge difference between girls and boys regarding these leagues.


agreed. interesting... are the premier guides helpful? 

with the DA game reports there was a lot of data, if one wanted to drill down on a player but doesn't seem like leagues track the same data at all.


----------



## gottouch

thedudeabides said:


> I have tracked the results for years and the games I saw, the DA teams usually lost/won to non-DA teams according to the expectations of YSR predictions. The only ones that seem skewed are LAFC and many of the MLS DA's around the country. LAFC should be even higher than they are in composite score and I think that is because they play their subs a lot and early on in the game against the lower level DA's. In fact, LAFC has sent their younger squad to play low level DA's and they still won easily. YSR doesn't know that, it just inputs the data. Had they sent their age appropriate team it would have been a massacre. As I have previously noted the disparities between mls and non mls da's outside California are even larger. So< i expect they are doing the same; they are playing their subs more frerquently and maybe sending younger squads against weaker teams. It's all just more proof that the non mls DA's were a poorly executed plan. Don't even get me started on ODP, what a cluster f***.
> 
> You are correct, ECNL seems to have a prestige advantage over the other leagues, especially on the girls' side but I only scout on the boys side and honestly, I follow players and teams not leagues and clubs. Club prestige and history means very little to me until it actually translates to real success. SCDSL copied CSL by having one primary place to play and that definitely helps scouting in practical terms. CSL sends out over 2000 premier guides to coaches and scouts and I think the other leagues will follow suit with print or online links to all those teams and players. But to me the promotion/relegation must be the difference in why a CSL team that is frequently regarded as inferior because of a stigma, frequently beats the top teams from the other leagues that claim superiority. Once again, huge difference between girls and boys regarding these leagues.


So, what age group does your LAFC boy play on?


----------



## thedudeabides

gottouch said:


> So, what age group does your LAFC boy play on?


I don't have a son that plays for LAFC. I have been to many of their youth matches and scouted many of their players. I'm just making observations on what I have seen from tracking players/teams for many years using stats and real results over hype. Was anything I said about them not true or overly biased? I know for a fact they have been beating up non-mls DA's for the last few years and sometimes with youngers. You can't have a so called uniform DA system when there is a 5-6 goal difference between the top and bottom. It's bad for both ends of the spectrum.


----------



## Eagle33

Son said:


> Another complaint former MLS DAs had was that they did not want to run U12, U14, U5 programs.   They wanted to operate only U17 and U19.   Now it sounds like they are running a full league across all ages.  If that is the case, will the new USYS league split up the U16 and U17?
> 
> I anticipate that ECNL will have U16, U17 and U18.


ECNL currently have 6 age groups starting at 12. I don't think it will change.


----------



## thedudeabides

Kante said:


> agreed. interesting... are the premier guides helpful?
> 
> with the DA game reports there was a lot of data, if one wanted to drill down on a player but doesn't seem like leagues track the same data at all.


The premier media guides are cool but I think they would be much more practical if the players that really wanted to be recruited put their email and/or link to their bio on the media guide team page. The way they do it, there isn't much room for player info so it is a team photo, team bio, and head shot of each player. It's mostly used to contact the coach to further inquire about the player.


----------



## galaxydad

Another important point with most ECNL teams vs CSL and SCDSL teams- most teams hold their kids to a GPA requirement. ECNL is designed for the college going player. They will cut very good players if they can’t do well in school.

I spoke to the Oxnard coach in CRL last season and he only had 1 or 2 NCAA qualifiers on their entire roster. Outstanding players but college isn’t an option for most of those players.

a player on the team I’m familiar with had a DA kid leave and move to his ECNL team and his ECNL team had many more college commits than the DA team he left. 2/3rd of the boys went on to play around the country. Many of those kids went D3 to highly rated academic school


----------



## Son

Does ECNL track player start percentages and goals scored like the DA website?


----------



## thedudeabides

Bubba said:


> If MLS is trying to be like the r
> 
> Everyone worries to much about which league your son plays.  During league play its when colleges are in season. Coaches are really busy. Get on a good team with a good coach , play major touraments . Remember you are competing now with foreign players that are on every college teams also.


Yes, totally agree. However, take the DA example. You had a league that was supposed to be the best and parents/players bought into that but the players for the non-mls DA's were just like all the club players except they thought they were better because they wore a DA patch. When a kid and parent thinks their kid is much better than they are, it stifles growth and desire. But yes, absolutely, find a team and coach that will push your kid to their limit and extract the very best from them and that kid will go far regardless of what league they are in.


----------



## thedudeabides

Son said:


> Are Albion, LAUFC, Nomads, TFA and Barca traditionally strong boys teams?


I'm not going to tear down individual clubs. Every age group is different. Look those individual age groups up for those clubs on YSR and you will know the answer. With the way teams are aggressively recruiting players today, it's all about the team and coach. TFA's strongest team for years was '04 SFV but politics led them to leave. That team lost two of their top players to LAFC and still managed to win CSL Premier under a different club banner. Coaches and team chemistry matter over individual players and club prestige.


----------



## Desert Hound

Son said:


> Does ECNL track player start percentages and goals scored like the DA website?


No. Managers can enter in goals. But it is very inconsistent as to who actually does it. No start stats either. So stats for DA were a lot better.


----------



## Dear Mr. Fantasy

Has there been any confirmation yet on which age groups will be featured in the new MLS league?


----------



## jpeter

Dear Mr. Fantasy said:


> Has there been any confirmation yet on which age groups will be featured in the new MLS league?


U17+ for sure,   with MLS academies desire to have u12+  I would guess they will be the looking to go u11+ like the nplwest league did in fall but no confirmation or details yet. May be a while since is all fluid at the moment. 

With USYS sanctioning I suppose they could be national championships and others involved for multiple age groups.


----------



## Son

jpeter said:


> U17+ for sure,   with MLS academies desire to have u12+  I would guess they will be the looking to go u11+ like the nplwest league did in fall but no confirmation or details yet. May be a while since is all fluid at the moment.
> 
> With USYS sanctioning I suppose they could be national championships and others involved for multiple age groups.



I thought that was exactly what the MLS teams were trying to avoid.   We were told they wanted only U17 and U19 and play only amongst themselves.  That's why there were blue division for stronger teams and red division for weaker teams for U19 last season.

Now they are doing the opposite.  They are partnering up with USYS to create a league for non -MLS clubs and  creating teams for young players.


----------



## jpeter

Son said:


> I thought that was exactly what the MLS teams were trying to avoid.   We were told they wanted only U17 and U19 and play only amongst themselves.  That's why there were blue division for stronger teams and red division for weaker teams for U19 last season.
> 
> Now they are doing the opposite.  They are partnering up with USYS to create a league for non -MLS clubs and  creating teams for young players.


I dunno but once USYS was involved seems like things expanded , maybe Mwn can chime in if he's allowed to comment?  After 2 years there are some rights & solidarity issues


----------



## Son

www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/85429/mlss-todd-durbin-on-launching-new-development-lea.html

SA: Who will be the age groups of the league?

TODD DURBIN: "That is an issue we are still trying to finalize, to be perfectly candid with you. What I think is reasonable to say is that we're going to be participating in two age groups, the most likely being the U-17s and U-15s, but we're also considering whether to also participate regionally with the U-19s as well. A lot of that at some level will become a function of how the geography lays out and the ability to move and travel, which I think will have an impact on the total number of teams. Our current thinking and current plan is we have competition and programming for those three age groups."


----------



## wc_baller

Son said:


> www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/85429/mlss-todd-durbin-on-launching-new-development-lea.html
> 
> SA: Who will be the age groups of the league?
> 
> TODD DURBIN: "That is an issue we are still trying to finalize, to be perfectly candid with you. What I think is reasonable to say is that we're going to be participating in two age groups, the most likely being the U-17s and U-15s, but we're also considering whether to also participate regionally with the U-19s as well. A lot of that at some level will become a function of how the geography lays out and the ability to move and travel, which I think will have an impact on the total number of teams. Our current thinking and current plan is we have competition and programming for those three age groups."


That makes absolutely no sense if they're only supporting those two age groups. What does an 18 year old high senior in high school do in this case, when he's aged out? Go back to a local club?


----------



## Son

So the non-MLS clubs will funnel their talented players U12 to U14 to the MLS teams?  And then when there in nowhere for an 18 year old high school senior to go, then he goes back to the local club.

What non-MLS club in their right mind would agree to this? Will be VERY expensive for parents with huge travel distances, few games, and second-class citizen status.


----------



## Dargle

wc_baller said:


> That makes absolutely no sense if they're only supporting those two age groups. What does an 18 year old high senior in high school do in this case, when he's aged out? Go back to a local club?


This is an MLS league designed to support MLS teams.  If the player isn't good enough to get signed by an MLS team or its affiliated USL team by 18, then they probably have no use for you in the league.


----------



## dad4

thedudeabides said:


> Not really apples to apples. CSL Premier is pretty strong top to bottom where the bottom of CRL is pretty weak because teams can get a favorable pool or have a lucky weekend and qualify . CRL is also a side league like NPL so I don't really consider it because it draws from all the other leagues. I have analyzed the primary fall leagues (DA, ECNL, CSL Premier, SCDSL Discovery, and Presidio flt 1) and CSL Premier was slightly above DA and ECNL and significantly above SCDSL and Presidio in YSR composite rankings for boys teams at 3 age groups.  Interestingly many of the teams that get relegated in CSL Premier are former DA teams that aged out of academy. Instead of earning it over years they get a weak pool in CRL, qualify for premier then struggle. That was a good indicator the DA's were failing in developing quality players.
> 
> Aside from all that, people need to stop thinking their letters are better. I am only making a strong statistical and anecdotal case here for CSL because they have been trashed mercilessly by the DA and ECNL snobs when real results painted a different picture. The hard truth is promotion/relegation works because the necessity to win does foster development but it negates the effects of pay to play and politics. Let me say that again, winning and development are NOT mutually exclusive.
> 
> What really needs to happen on the boys side is the top 10-15 teams from all the various leagues within a 3-5 hour drive of an MLS team should be invited to compete in a league with that MLS team. It should be a promotion/relegation system with the MLS Academy not ever getting relegated. The other team are there to support the MLS team and they should naturally be near the top because they will constantly be recruiting players from the other teams and bringing them into hopefully a residential academy structure. It's simple and it would work.


Better if MLS only coordinates things and runs the all star team.  

We got this mess in part by having clubs decide on league structure.  As soon as that happens, they try to use the power to screw each othe over.


----------



## thedudeabides

galaxydad said:


> Another important point with most ECNL teams vs CSL and SCDSL teams- most teams hold their kids to a GPA requirement. ECNL is designed for the college going player. They will cut very good players if they can’t do well in school.
> 
> I spoke to the Oxnard coach in CRL last season and he only had 1 or 2 NCAA qualifiers on their entire roster. Outstanding players but college isn’t an option for most of those players.
> 
> a player on the team I’m familiar with had a DA kid leave and move to his ECNL team and his ECNL team had many more college commits than the DA team he left. 2/3rd of the boys went on to play around the country. Many of those kids went D3 to highly rated academic school


I have never heard of that and unless it is in their bylaws it's a meaningless anecdote because every team is different and I'll bet you if you surveyed CSL, Presidio and SCDSL coaches, many would tell you that academics are very important to their teams. Do you have a link to the ECNL grade requirements?


----------



## thedudeabides

dad4 said:


> Better if MLS only coordinates things and runs the all star team.
> 
> We got this mess in part by having clubs decide on league structure.  As soon as that happens, they try to use the power to screw each othe over.


Totally agree. To me, CSL has the best structure. It's far from perfect but for the most part it works. The reason clubs flee CSL is they are too impatient to put in the time/effort to move through the ranks and earn their spot in the gold/premier levels. Our whole alphabet soup system of leagues and side leagues is such a political mess. Europe is scratching their heads thinking, what a waste of gifted athletes.


----------



## jpeter

Son said:


> So the non-MLS clubs will funnel their talented players U12 to U14 to the MLS teams?  And then when there in nowhere for an 18 year old high school senior to go, then he goes back to the local club.
> 
> What non-MLS club in their right mind would agree to this? Will be VERY expensive for parents with huge travel distances, few games, and second-class citizen status.


$$$ compensation 2 year share or whatever that might be.

Travel  for the the SW: LA and SD da division was mostly local so would think they would look for that kind of scheduling but like that article mentions fluid situation MLS age groups and non (USYS) up for discussion


----------



## focomoso

Kante said:


> Have seen exactly what you talk about w/ the CSL prem and DA teams, and it makes sense. Looking at YSR, would argue that some of the DA teams scores are too low but only a handful. (does anyone disagree/have other inputs?)


The trouble with ysr for the DA teams is that there aren't enough games between leagues. A team may constantly get beat up in the DA which will lower their scores, but would flatten most non DA teams. From personal experience with only boys 07/06 the lower-level DA teams are way under scored. For a while, a couple of club's best club team was ranked higher than their own DA, but that was because the clubs play so many more tournaments. An actual competitive match between the club and DA teams would be a blowout.


----------



## thedudeabides

focomoso said:


> The trouble with ysr for the DA teams is that there aren't enough games between leagues. A team may constantly get beat up in the DA which will lower their scores, but would flatten most non DA teams. From personal experience with only boys 07/06 the lower-level DA teams are way under scored. For a while, a couple of club's best club team was ranked higher than their own DA, but that was because the clubs play so many more tournaments. An actual competitive match between the club and DA teams would be a blowout.


I've been following it for several years from a statistical vantage point and attended hundreds of those games you speak of and you couldn't be more incorrect for u14 and older boys. The games played between DA and non-da for the most part demonstrated that the non mls da teams were not nearly as good as their mls counterparts (yes, there are exceptions) and now US Soccer just changed course primarily for this reason. Yes, non mls da teams would flatten most club teams, big deal. However, those same DA's struggle against top 50 teams in socal that are occupying the flt1/premier/ecnl designations and that's why MLS just tossed them aside.


----------



## Mick

thedudeabides said:


> I've been following it for several years from a statistical vantage point and attended hundreds of those games you speak of and you couldn't be more incorrect for u14 and older boys. The games played between DA and non-da for the most part demonstrated that the non mls da teams were not nearly as good as their mls counterparts (yes, there are exceptions) and now US Soccer just changed course primarily for this reason. Yes, non mls da teams would flatten most club teams, big deal. However, those same DA's struggle against top 50 teams in socal that are occupying the flt1/premier/ecnl designations and that's why MLS just tossed them aside.


----------



## focomoso

thedudeabides said:


> The games played between DA and non-da for the most part demonstrated that...


What games, where? When do (sorry, did) DA teams play non DA in official games that would get counted in ysr? That's the problem.


----------



## thedudeabides

focomoso said:


> What games, where? When do (sorry, did) DA teams play non DA in official games that would get counted in ysr? That's the problem.


When a u15 team shows up playing non DA with the exact same roster that it fielded the year before as a DA, it's the same team. In fact YSR considers it the same team because it counts 18 months of competition. Same coach, same players, same team. Also, there are several tournaments that DA teams participate in that they play non DA competition. You can keep drinking the koolaid but judgment has been rendered; complete failure of it's stated objective to create world class players. Also, I've had numerous conversations with the creator of YSR software; the algorithm is solid and works very well with as little as 8 games counted. Numbers don't lie.


----------



## Bubba

thedudeabides said:


> I have tracked the results for years and the games I saw, the DA teams usually lost/won to non-DA teams according to the expectations of YSR predictions. The only ones that seem skewed are LAFC and many of the MLS DA's around the country. LAFC should be even higher than they are in composite score and I think that is because they play their subs a lot and early on in the game against the lower level DA's. In fact, LAFC has sent their younger squad to play low level DA's and they still won easily. YSR doesn't know that, it just inputs the data. Had they sent their age appropriate team it would have been a massacre. As I have previously noted the disparities between mls and non mls da's outside California are even larger. So< i expect they are doing the same; they are playing their subs more frerquently and maybe sending younger squads against weaker teams. It's all just more proof that the non mls DA's were a poorly executed plan. Don't even get me started on ODP, what a cluster f***.
> 
> You are correct, ECNL seems to have a prestige advantage over the other leagues, especially on the girls' side but I only scout on the boys side and honestly, I follow players and teams not leagues and clubs. Club prestige and history means very little to me until it actually translates to real success. SCDSL copied CSL by having one primary place to play and that definitely helps scouting in practical terms. CSL sends out over 2000 premier guides to coaches and scouts and I think the other leagues will follow suit with print or online links to all those teams and players. But to me the promotion/relegation must be the difference in why a CSL team that is frequently regarded as inferior because of a stigma, frequently beats the top teams from the other leagues that claim superiority. Once again, huge difference between girls and boys regarding these leagues.


When was the last time you saw college coaches at any CSL/SCDSL league games ? Maybe one just to check on one of his players he is recruiting. My son plays college and the coach never stressed what league they played in. His coach was looking for a left back that went up/down the field and had good instincts.

My son's teammate a right back that seem to have double the work rate than my son , had coaches drooling. I happened to be on sideline and would hear their comments. "Did you see that right back" " man he never gets tired".

Don't stress about the league , if your son is good enough and has exposure he should be fine.


----------



## galaxydad

thedudeabides said:


> I have never heard of that and unless it is in their bylaws it's a meaningless anecdote because every team is different and I'll bet you if you surveyed CSL, Presidio and SCDSL coaches, many would tell you that academics are very important to their teams. Do you have a link to the ECNL grade requirements?


there is no requirement but many track grades and hold them to it as ECNL is a college going league. why take a non qualifier to college showcase. Teams build reputations with the college coaches and they want to know that the gpa test scores etc listed are accurate. A coach scouting for their colleges- time is very valuable. They don’t want to waste their time and don’t want to get excited about a kid that they can’t even recruit.

someone said that recruiting is up to a player and their family and that is true but trust me, a good ECNL program is actively working to help their players get offers

why pay 3,000 plus travel and go to showcases if your can’t get in?


I got crap earlier about talking  ECNL but now most of the non MLS DA kids are jumping into this league and I’d argue it’s not just a competitive league but it’s a college going league and that’s it’s focus and they do it well. The non student isn’t the focus. 

IMO- a pro career in the US is not what this sport offers the American soccer player.  I personally know several kids that went that route and have regretted it. They gave their heart and soul for their homegrown badge and spent more in gas to and from the pitch than they ever made as a pro in galaxy II. Now a chance to get into college, maybe one you might not have gotten into as a non athlete and play a sport you love a little longer. Now that’s reachable for lots of our boys


----------



## Patandpats

According to our DA director, the new league will be called something like "MLS Academy" and while the details are still being worked out, it will mostly work like the DA did minus about 20% of the clubs that jumped to ECNL.  They are adding Phx Rising at all levels, Liverpool in OC and some other clubs.

What will likely be different is that the u19 level might go away because MLS clubs feel that if you aren't ready to be signed by then it won't be worth their time.  What teams like LAUFA, TFA, Nomads, etc will do with that age group remains to be seen.  Beyond that they are getting rid of the gap year, likely getting rid of the sub rules.  Not much else will change.   Our DOC said MLS clubs have to do this because otherwise they couldn't afford their academies since they'd have to fly to almost every game.

Our DOC is full of shit in general, but if you liked the DA, it sounds like it will still be the DA.  The downside of course is that losing the six clubs in southern CA means that there will be more out of state travel to Arizona since there will be at least three clubs there (Barca, Rising, RSLAZ).  It will be interesting to see if those clubs that left try to get back in or stick with ECNL.

They said MLS is meeting today about it and final details will be available in the next couple of weeks.  Basically MLS is going to do everything US Soccer resisted doing that the wanted to do.  I still maintain southern CA clubs should have an alliance to play each other and limit the travel (why play Rising three times when you can play Strikers three times and not pay for a hotel, miss school, etc) but that would require DOC's to think about the best interests of the kids first.


----------



## jpeter

My advice is play soccer, gave some fun, and choose clubs, coaches,  teams that are supportive and have good reputations.

The whole chase the college athletic partial scholarship for soccer deal should'nt be the focus.  Your kids great grades and character will go farther in getting accepted.   

The days of getting special admin due to athletics are pretty much over at the big colleges.  Even at UCLA if you not in the average range of requirements they won't even give you a offer.  The range for GPA for incoming freshman is 4.0 to 4.29 and you need socal and character reference or work also.  If you have a 3.5 GPA and play soccer to count on  offers from the the big D1 colleges they have so many possible applicants they just move on to the next.    

At the better D2's  3.5gpa is possible for some schools that have lower admission standards while other require 3.7+ even the the minimum requirement is just what like a 2.2 GPA for a scholarship.   D3 there are no set gpa requirements, up to schools but still have to meet the NCAA A-G course work in college.

Financial need is a big part of scholarships, example our son had offer from a pretty high profile college but it cost $55,000 a year. Coach likes him wants to make him an offer but explain to him they only get about 6 scholarships and nobody gets a full one and it's based on economic need basically he's going to get nothing in a nut shell. 

Our daughter decided that she wasn't going to play college soccer and she managed to get over a dozen scholarships based on academic character,  social, and Civic things she does. some of those were smaller amounts but it all added up enough to pay for her college for the first two years. 

College soccer while that's another topic all together, the short limited season is really not conducted for serious soccer players. Many  end up having to play and some other leagues like usl 2, upsl, etc to keep developing.


----------



## Raakjoer

Knowing its not finalized as yet, whats the general consensus on MLS Academy age groups? Are people thinking/hearing its going to be U15, U16, and U17 with 19 going away? Or is the feeling U15 and U17?


----------



## jpeter

Patandpats said:


> According to our DA director, the new league will be called something like "MLS Academy" and while the details are still being worked out, it will mostly work like the DA did minus about 20% of the clubs that jumped to ECNL.  They are adding Phx Rising at all levels, Liverpool in OC and some other clubs.
> 
> What will likely be different is that the u19 level might go away because MLS clubs feel that if you aren't ready to be signed by then it won't be worth their time.  What teams like LAUFA, TFA, Nomads, etc will do with that age group remains to be seen.  Beyond that they are getting rid of the gap year, likely getting rid of the sub rules.  Not much else will change.   Our DOC said MLS clubs have to do this because otherwise they couldn't afford their academies since they'd have to fly to almost every game.
> 
> Our DOC is full of shit in general, but if you liked the DA, it sounds like it will still be the DA.  The downside of course is that losing the six clubs in southern CA means that there will be more out of state travel to Arizona since there will be at least three clubs there (Barca, Rising, RSLAZ).  It will be interesting to see if those clubs that left try to get back in or stick with ECNL.
> 
> They said MLS is meeting today about it and final details will be available in the next couple of weeks.  Basically MLS is going to do everything US Soccer resisted doing that the wanted to do.  I still maintain southern CA clubs should have an alliance to play each other and limit the travel (why play Rising three times when you can play Strikers three times and not pay for a hotel, miss school, etc) but that would require DOC's to think about the best interests of the kids first.


Both this new MLS/USYS and ECNL have come out with support for cross play among leagues.  

We will be "scheduling" game vs these two.  didn't say what kind of games: friendllies, tournament's or league but they did say they'll be playing.   

Take a team like Phx Rising which will have  team in both along with USL ones.  Now they have a full gambit, some of the socal ones will be doing the same.  Some will think that means dilution but not necessarily they can keep the quality high.  Are there best players all going to play ECNL because of college scouting possibilities or because they used to play DA?  no there is going to be a mash up. Same goes for the formers DA's are the all going to jump to the new MLS/USYS no some  will go USL, ECNL, regular club, or just won't be able to afford soccer anymore.  The former DA subsidies (20-30k per) and travel scholarships won't be there from ussda so the clubs parents are so he's going to have to cover that, making things even more expensive.

These fluffy pieces about xyx club going to xyz league and taking xyz teams and players with are assuming but in reality is not going be so linear.  Each season is different players & coaches come and the teams are different.  Especially this year if and when things open back up.


----------



## jpeter

Raakjoer said:


> Knowing its not finalized as yet, whats the general consensus on MLS Academy age groups? Are people thinking/hearing its going to be U15, U16, and U17 with 19 going away? Or is the feeling U15 and U17?


Three age groups to be determined was the latest:  U15, u17 almost certain with one more.  

I'm going to take a stab and say u18/19 at least for the first season because those MLS orgs have already invested in those players and they don't want to see the 2003/02's  just walk away with no return especially with how everything ended early this season..

Now that USYS is involved might  be other age groups for the non-mls clubs. This is why you're seing clubs like TFA and LAUFA as mentioned since they tradionally been focused on the youngers.   

The pitch...play in the MLS league if we pick up your players we will share the $$$ solidarity payments with you if they work out.


----------



## Dargle

If the MLS league seems a little ad hoc and making it up as they go, that's probably because it is.  That has caused some to be worried about its viability.  We'll see.  Even if it has lasting power, it does appear they're taking other clubs to complete the schedule rather than to upgrade the competition, which makes you wonder if those clubs/players will get the full benefits


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251161477844615173


----------



## jpeter

Dargle said:


> If the MLS league seems a little ad hoc and making it up as they go, that's probably because it is.  That has caused some to be worried about its viability.  We'll see.  Even if it has lasting power, it does appear they're taking other clubs to complete the schedule rather than to upgrade the competition, which makes you wonder if those clubs/players will get the full benefits
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251161477844615173


It's all fluid at the moment no matter what org or league.

The journalists are just guessing just like we are somewhat.

Every former DA club is not going to want to play in MLS/USYS no matter what they say.    Some are happy to get.away from MLS and have a "real chance" for a championship is what I've heard at least twice now in the last week.   Very few clubs in socal claimed those in 12 years in DA.


----------



## methood

Dargle said:


> If the MLS league seems a little ad hoc and making it up as they go, that's probably because it is.  That has caused some to be worried about its viability.  We'll see.  Even if it has lasting power, it does appear they're taking other clubs to complete the schedule rather than to upgrade the competition, which makes you wonder if those clubs/players will get the full benefits
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251161477844615173


This is just a mess.


----------



## Son

For years the MLS DAs have been trying to get rid of the non-MLS DAs.  They wanted to form a league amongst only MLS DAs.  That's why they split up the U19 into two divisions.

Now this new MLS/USYS league says all former non-MLS DAs can be a part of the new league.  What non-MLS clubs in their right mind would want to play second class citizens to the MLS academies?


----------



## jpeter

methood said:


> This is just a mess.


Yes and going to be that way for while.  Is just there airing the dirty laundry out there. Could  do the same for others but they don't care enough to 

John Pranjić
@ThatCroatianGuy

According to USSF CEO Will Wilson, he made all of the decisions within the last two weeks. That means MLS had somewhere between 12-minutes and two-weeks to thoroughly analyze the situation and decide take on the project. 

Do you believe them?


----------



## jpeter

Son said:


> For years the MLS DAs have been trying to get rid of the non-MLS DAs.  They wanted to form a league amongst only MLS DAs.  That's why they split up the U19 into two divisions.
> 
> Now this new MLS/USYS league says all former non-MLS DAs can be a part of the new league.  What non-MLS clubs in their right mind would want to play second class citizens to the MLS academies?


You're miss the $$$ part of the equation and the new solidarity agreements that they're working on, that's why.

Some clubs can't afford the big $$$ for there players to train 4x play,  travel for league or showcases across the country with the da subsidies.


----------



## Dargle

This bit of news, which is not surprising, may be contributing to skepticism of the MLS youth league. MLS may be thinking the non-MLS teams will pay fees that would basically cover much of MLS' costs for the league itself.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251175537826906112


----------



## Son

jpeter said:


> You're miss the $$$ part of the equation and the new solidarity agreements that they're working on, that's why.
> 
> Some clubs can't afford the big $$$ for there players to train 4x play,  travel for league or showcases across the country with the da subsidies.


We'll see how this looks once the training compensation and solidarity payment checks start flowing.


----------



## Husky13

methood said:


> This is just a mess.


Why?  Because they don't have every detail ironed out during a massive transition while a 100-year pandemic is going on?  So parents like you and I have all of the details immediately?

Why don't we exercise some patience and see what comes out of this before passing judgment?  Clearly they have some time to iron out the details, the current season is over and we are in a dead period for the foreseeable future.

By the way, I highly doubt that EVERY non-MLS DA team is offered to be in this new MLS league.  Even that first tweet merely said "every former DA club will have a place to play" (paraphrasing), it didn't say where.


----------



## Raakjoer

Husky13 said:


> Why?  Because they don't have every detail ironed out during a massive transition while a 100-year pandemic is going on?  So parents like you and I have all of the details immediately?
> 
> Why don't we exercise some patience and see what comes out of this before passing judgment?  Clearly they have some time to iron out the details, the current season is over and we are in a dead period for the foreseeable future.
> 
> By the way, I highly doubt that EVERY non-MLS DA team is offered to be in this new MLS league.  Even that first tweet merely said "every former DA club will have a place to play" (paraphrasing), it didn't say where.


Agreed. I'm cautiously optimistic. That said, i dont think my son has had a single year where there wasnt some massive change in club/structure/age/DA etc. Can't imagine other sports are like this. All that said, spend anytime in the Girls DA/ECNL threads and the boys side seems perfect.


----------



## Kante

Dargle said:


> If the MLS league seems a little ad hoc and making it up as they go, that's probably because it is.  That has caused some to be worried about its viability.  We'll see.  Even if it has lasting power, it does appear they're taking other clubs to complete the schedule rather than to upgrade the competition, which makes you wonder if those clubs/players will get the full benefits
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251161477844615173


MLS just hired Jay Berhalter as a consultant for the new MLS league. 

On one hand, can't stand the idea of Jay Berhalter. On the other, read a couple of references that the DA was his baby, so maybe the right/most informed guy to help out now. Hopefully, because they're starting largely from scratch and folks have a very low expectations, they'll be able to do things better.

At the end of the day though, it's hard not to be concerned that MLS self-interest will prevail at the expense of others.

Also, love Charles Boehm generally, but he mucked up the quote from the MLS guy. The quote was that every former DA team would "have a place to play," not that every former DA club would have a place in the MLS league.


----------



## jpeter

Dargle said:


> This bit of news, which is not surprising, may be contributing to skepticism of the MLS youth league. MLS may be thinking the non-MLS teams will pay fees that would basically cover much of MLS' costs for the league itself.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251175537826906112


They have to cut expensive and no I don't think that why they want to include non-mls, travel and other things are behind that like USYS.


----------



## Midas

Heard high school will not be an option in the MLS league


----------



## Emma

Kante said:


> MLS just hired Jay Berhalter as a consultant for the new MLS league.
> 
> On one hand, can't stand the idea of Jay Berhalter. On the other, read a couple of references that the DA was his baby, so maybe the right/most informed guy to help out now. Hopefully, because they're starting largely from scratch and folks have a very low expectations, they'll be able to do things better.
> 
> At the end of the day though, it's hard not to be concerned that MLS self-interest will prevail at the expense of others.
> 
> Also, love Charles Boehm generally, but he mucked up the quote from the MLS guy. The quote was that every former DA team would "have a place to play," not that every former DA club would have a place in the MLS league.


MLS will be less inclined to self deal bc the youth soccer community is their fan base.  If they are smart and trying to filter players to the MLS and expanding the MLS & its fan base,  youth soccer is small potatoes and self dealing will cost them more than it's worth in the long run.  

US Soccer had nothing to lose and therefore no incentive to behave better.


----------



## Dargle

jpeter said:


> They have to cut expensive and no I don't think that why they want to include non-mls, travel and other things are behind that like USYS.


Totally agree that they always needed to include more local clubs to reduce travel, even apart from the financial crisis, although I'm sure they hoped those clubs would provide the best non-MLS teams and I don't know that they achieved that overall.  Just suggesting that MLS' ability and appetite to carry the league has limits, and those limits are now greater. It will be interesting to see how they set up the fee structure for the non-MLS clubs.


----------



## jpeter

Midas said:


> Heard high school will not be an option in the MLS league


Who is saying that? First time I've even heard that mentioned.

When youth soccer gets close to returning I'm sure we will find out the details on how organizations & leagues are going to run, the age groups, rosters, sub, out/inside comps, rules, travel, tournaments, showcases etc.   Right now no body really knows, what was done in past is just that.  The new landscape is shaping up to be different buts it's so fluid only time will tell.


----------



## galaxydad

jpeter said:


> My advice is play soccer, gave some fun, and choose clubs, coaches,  teams that are supportive and have good reputations.
> 
> The whole chase the college athletic partial scholarship for soccer deal should'nt be the focus.  Your kids great grades and character will go farther in getting accepted.
> 
> The days of getting special admin due to athletics are pretty much over at the big colleges.  Even at UCLA if you not in the average range of requirements they won't even give you a offer.  The range for GPA for incoming freshman is 4.0 to 4.29 and you need socal and character reference or work also.  If you have a 3.5 GPA and play soccer to count on  offers from the the big D1 colleges they have so many possible applicants they just move on to the next.
> 
> At the better D2's  3.5gpa is possible for some schools that have lower admission standards while other require 3.7+ even the the minimum requirement is just what like a 2.2 GPA for a scholarship.   D3 there are no set gpa requirements, up to schools but still have to meet the NCAA A-G course work in college.
> 
> Financial need is a big part of scholarships, example our son had offer from a pretty high profile college but it cost $55,000 a year. Coach likes him wants to make him an offer but explain to him they only get about 6 scholarships and nobody gets a full one and it's based on economic need basically he's going to get nothing in a nut shell.
> 
> Our daughter decided that she wasn't going to play college soccer and she managed to get over a dozen scholarships based on academic character,  social, and Civic things she does. some of those were smaller amounts but it all added up enough to pay for her college for the first two years.
> 
> College soccer while that's another topic all together, the short limited season is really not conducted for serious soccer players. Many  end up having to play and some other leagues like usl 2, upsl, etc to keep developing.


I agree play for fun 1st but I have had a very different experience working with athletes and non athletes getting into colleges. 

The days of being a non student and getting into college are indeed gone but I can name plenty of examples of 3.5 non AP kids getting into UCLA to play sports- not just revenue sports. You just have to be good enough if you are indeed a D1 prospect.

The low income Strong student athlete is the real unicorn as they can usually go for free with pell grants and needs based aid 

middle class and up are going to have to pay for their students education unless they are like your daughter. Merit money is very hard to come by but it’s there especially at private schools

I’d argue however that the D1 sport scene is not a great option for the student athlete. They “own” you for lack of a better word and often discourage their players from difficult courses and majors

D2 is a great balance and the D3 schools are often the top academic choices- finally NAIA often have the most $ for their student athletes you’de be surprised

every kid wants to play at UCSB etc keep you options open, be willing to leave the west coast and you can play

lastly right now the “serious soccer player” sadly doesn’t have much of an option at all in the US on the pro stage- not even worth the time IMO


----------



## Midas

jpeter said:


> Who is saying that? First time I've even heard that mentioned.
> 
> When youth soccer gets close to returning I'm sure we will find out the details on how organizations & leagues are going to run, the age groups, rosters, sub, out/inside comps, rules, travel, tournaments, showcases etc.   Right now no body really knows, what was done in past is just that.  The new landscape is shaping up to be different buts it's so fluid only time will tell.


Didn’t mean it as a fact . Meant it more as a question since it supposed to be like DA so people were thinking no high school. My bad.


----------



## watfly

Kante said:


> MLS just hired Jay Berhalter as a consultant for the new MLS league.
> 
> On one hand, can't stand the idea of Jay Berhalter. On the other, read a couple of references that the DA was his baby, so maybe the right/most informed guy to help out now. Hopefully, because they're starting largely from scratch and folks have a very low expectations, they'll be able to do things better.


God, no.  DA/MLS needs a fresh start.  He may be experienced, but he ran a completely failed organization.  Unfortunately that is something you see all the time in business.

While I'm skeptical of the MLS/DA league, I'm taking a wait and see approach.  This is so fresh and we can speculate til were blue in the face (not saying that isn't fun).  The reality is youth soccer is not restarting for a while, particularly if we have to meet the 6 benchmarks that Newsom laid out.  This may sound blasphemous, but I haven't really missed soccer that much and my son even less so, but he has a ton of other interests.  Maybe there is a message there I'm missing?


----------



## Desert Hound

watfly said:


> While I'm skeptical of the MLS/DA league, I'm taking a wait and see approach.


I just think the MLS is not interested in adding a lot of non MLS DA clubs. After all they were not happy having their teams play non DA teams due to quality differences right? So why when you get a chance to have your own league for your MLS academies would they go back and add in A LOT of non MLS DA clubs? I don't think they do. Some? Sure.


----------



## jpeter

galaxydad said:


> I agree play for fun 1st but I have had a very different experience working with athletes and non athletes getting into colleges.
> 
> The days of being a non student and getting into college are indeed gone but I can name plenty of examples of 3.5 non AP kids getting into UCLA to play sports- not just revenue sports. You just have to be good enough if you are indeed a D1 prospect.
> 
> The low income Strong student athlete is the real unicorn as they can usually go for free with pell grants and needs based aid
> 
> middle class and up are going to have to pay for their students education unless they are like your daughter. Merit money is very hard to come by but it’s there especially at private schools
> 
> I’d argue however that the D1 sport scene is not a great option for the student athlete. They “own” you for lack of a better word and often discourage their players from difficult courses and majors
> 
> D2 is a great balance and the D3 schools are often the top academic choices- finally NAIA often have the most $ for their student athletes you’de be surprised
> 
> every kid wants to play at UCSB etc keep you options open, be willing to leave the west coast and you can play
> 
> lastly right now the “serious soccer player” sadly doesn’t have much of an option at all in the US on the pro stage- not even worth the time IMO


Good feedback,  yeah all I know about is what my kids have been through the last 18months or so.   That UCLA example is very recent regarding soccer,  first hand as we know incoming players and had discussions about that with the athletic staff.   Football and other sports may be different but have no first hand info on that.

Grades and character came first no matter what universities they were interesting in, the athletic prowess or abilities was there and never in question.  The culture, program fit, costs, campuses, and interactions with both staff and other students where what narrowed down the field.


----------



## jpeter

Midas said:


> Didn’t mean it as a fact . Meant it more as a question since it supposed to be like DA so people were thinking no high school. My bad.


Nothing to be bad about,  good to question what's the parameters & rules maybe.  Better to find out up front and help your player make the most informed decision.

Some clubs & organizations actually have a contract where they spell things out.  Sometimes those terms  can / do seem wacky especially to the kids .  One of those maybe releated to  high School sports or other activities discouragement.  We personally know some who have walked away as a result in the past.  A league wide ban well that's another topic, hopefully we've learned our lessons in that regard.


----------



## jpeter

Desert Hound said:


> I just think the MLS is not interested in adding a lot of non MLS DA clubs. After all they were not happy having their teams play non DA teams due to quality differences right? So why when you get a chance to have your own league for your MLS academies would they go back and add in A LOT of non MLS DA clubs? I don't think they do. Some? Sure.


There is a background battle going in CA at least to scavenge the bones of the former ussda.

USYS+ MLS vs USclub (NPl & ECNL)

USYS has been dominant in Socal for a while mostly due to Cal South and all the clubs & players playing under them

USclub has been trying to make inroads for years in Socal and have been picking up steam and offering more NPL's,UPSL, USL  and ECNL for the boys recently.

Too bad they can't work together more closely but they act like competitors more than not and that doesn't help the players.

Let's really see if there is going to be cross competition finally like ECNL & MLS/USYS have came out in favor of this week.

CAL South have to wonder about them now will they make another move...CRL "academy" like last year? Or something to counter MLS "elite'  & USclub expansion


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## justneededaname

Midas said:


> Didn’t mean it as a fact . Meant it more as a question since it supposed to be like DA so people were thinking no high school. My bad.


Our DOC said High School would not be an option. Maybe that is only for our club and not going to be a rule for the league.


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## focomoso

thedudeabides said:


> When a u15 team shows up playing non DA with the exact same roster that it fielded the year before as a DA, it's the same team. In fact YSR considers it the same team because it counts 18 months of competition. Same coach, same players, same team. Also, there are several tournaments that DA teams participate in that they play non DA competition. You can keep drinking the koolaid but judgment has been rendered; complete failure of it's stated objective to create world class players. Also, I've had numerous conversations with the creator of YSR software; the algorithm is solid and works very well with as little as 8 games counted. Numbers don't lie.


LOL. No DA koolaid drinking here. We left the DA over a year ago and wouldn't go back.

Numbers don't lie, but models have limitations. 

YSR's predictions are great, but as I said before, the numbers are not as good for teams further away in the graph. They favor teams that play more against lessor teams. If two teams have the same rating and one has played more games against lessor competition, the other team is more likely to win. This is why non SoCal teams have inflated numbers (and fare so poorly in tournaments vs. SoCal teams). It's not ysr's fault. It's how the model works. There's no possible way it can compensate for the lack of games between DA and non DA because the longer the cycle (using data from A played B played C played D to predict A vs. D) the less accurate the prediction. I'm sure the creator of ysr, whoever he may be, is aware of this. It's just how the math works. 

If ysr is considering a former DA team as the same team, that can help tighten the cycles, but only so much because when a team ages out of DA, they usually loose one or two of their top players, which can make a big difference.


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## Advantage

LAUFA,TFA and Nomads Albion are part of the MLS league


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## thedudeabides

focomoso said:


> LOL. No DA koolaid drinking here. We left the DA over a year ago and wouldn't go back.
> 
> Numbers don't lie, but models have limitations.
> 
> YSR's predictions are great, but as I said before, the numbers are not as good for teams further away in the graph. They favor teams that play more against lessor teams. If two teams have the same rating and one has played more games against lessor competition, the other team is more likely to win. This is why non SoCal teams have inflated numbers (and fare so poorly in tournaments vs. SoCal teams). It's not ysr's fault. It's how the model works. There's no possible way it can compensate for the lack of games between DA and non DA because the longer the cycle (using data from A played B played C played D to predict A vs. D) the less accurate the prediction. I'm sure the creator of ysr, whoever he may be, is aware of this. It's just how the math works.
> 
> If ysr is considering a former DA team as the same team, that can help tighten the cycles, but only so much because when a team ages out of DA, they usually loose one or two of their top players, which can make a big difference.


So I would agree with much of that. I actually brought it up to the programmer a few years ago. I called it the sandbagging effect. If you take a team that is pretty decent but they are playing in a lot of low level tourneys and playing in a level below where they should be in league, they will beat teams by much more than the predicted outcome because of a demoralization factor. When teams are two or more goal difference in composites at the start of the game, the likelihood of that team getting beat by 4 or more goals goes up more than the linear prediction. You are correct, YSR doesn't and can't predict this. What it should do is have a diminishing effect on how it counts every goal that exceeds more than 4 goals over the expected outcome.

Here's what I don't agree with what you said; I have not seen the inflated effect in states outside of socal like you state and that's why SoCal disproportionately, even adjusting for population differences, dominates YSR rankings. Got soccer is the exact opposite because their methodology is severely flawed to the point of it being a statistical joke. In fact YSR is far superior in predicting SoCal in relation to the rest of the country because of their methodology of counting every official game and giving losing teams credit when they exceed expectations. In other states because there are fewer teams, the spread between the top and bottom is much more narrow and therefore it is more difficult to sandbag.

Anyway, we are splitting hairs I believe. I have no doubt that between the statistical models I have seen backed up by real life game outcomes, the overall composite average of non mls DA's around the nation would not even put them as a top 50 team in SoCal. In fact, I just ran a sample of 20 non mls da's around the country at U14 and their composite put them at 74th in SoCal! There are 74 teams in southern california alone that are as good or better than the average non mls DA and 250 teams around the country that are as good are better. That's astonishing. Sure there are factors that skew here and there and as you stated models have limitations but the fact is MLS finally figured out what a lot of people knew for years....DA was way, way, way overhyped at the point of being a sham. I'm glad you were able to recognize this as well when you moved on from it.


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## Husky13

Would you mind providing a link to YSR?


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## Dargle

Husky13 said:


> Would you mind providing a link to YSR?








						Find Soccer Leagues, Camps & Tournaments Near You
					

Welcome to the home of youth sports. Find Soccer league, camps, tournaments, clinics & more. Read the latest Soccer tips, drills and news.




					youthsoccerrankings.us


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## jpeter

Husky13 said:


> Would you mind providing a link to YSR?








						Find Soccer Leagues, Camps & Tournaments Near You
					

Welcome to the home of youth sports. Find Soccer league, camps, tournaments, clinics & more. Read the latest Soccer tips, drills and news.




					youthsoccerrankings.us
				




I took a look seems like they only track certain leagues +  gotsoccecr events.

Missing a lot of data possibly I dunno but good for them to provide a service people like, guess you can give them data or links to upload or something? 

While this whole da shakeup and league mombo jumble is interesting to discuss I'm sort of glad on a personal level my son already made his commitments in FEB and signed up or participated in  things in anticipatipn of next season that so far are still a go as planned.


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## thedudeabides

jpeter said:


> Find Soccer Leagues, Camps & Tournaments Near You
> 
> 
> Welcome to the home of youth sports. Find Soccer league, camps, tournaments, clinics & more. Read the latest Soccer tips, drills and news.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> youthsoccerrankings.us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I took a look seems like they only track certain leagues +  gotsoccecr events.
> 
> Missing a lot of data possibly I dunno but good for them to provide a service people like, guess you can give them data or links to upload or something?
> 
> While this whole da shakeup and league mombo jumble is interesting to discuss I'm sort of glad on a personal level my son already made his commitments in FEB and signed up or participated in  things in anticipatipn of next season that so far are still a go as planned.


YSR, tracks every single official result that shows up online, which is 95% + of all games. If there are games missing, there is usually a glitch on the reporting side. If the games were reported and don't show up, they have a self correcting feature. If that fails, they have a way for a team representative to point out the mistake and it is usually corrected within 48 hours. I have no idea what you are talking about because there is no other system that tracks the amount of games YSR does. Please provide a link to a more reliable or thorough system. My company would pay a lot for that service.


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## jpeter

thedudeabides said:


> YSR, tracks every single official result that shows up online, which is 95% + of all games. If there are games missing, there is usually a glitch on the reporting side. If the games were reported and don't show up, they have a self correcting feature. If that fails, they have a way for a team representative to point out the mistake and it is usually corrected within 48 hours. I have no idea what you are talking about because there is no other system that tracks the amount of games YSR does. Please provide a link to a more reliable or thorough system. My company would pay a lot for that service.


Ok if you say so don't see the da games, bunch of tournaments other leagues like some of usclubs leagues, etc but whatever


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## Ed Ho

jpeter said:


> Ok if you say so don't see the da games, bunch of tournaments other leagues like some of usclubs leagues, etc but whatever


Jpeter is right.  I just looked for our team - a top non MLS DA (or at least used to be in that league) and YSR did not have the La Galaxy Cup, super Copa, or Generation Addidas tournaments.  Those were probably 3 of the top 10 tournaments last year.  And then they were counting some other team from our club in our record for 2018. Just keeping straight which team actually played is frequently a problem.  And any person can email YSR rankings and tell them that the info is wrong and they will add or remove.  I’m pretty sure no parent on here is going to reply that they asked YSR to include missing results that make their team look worse.

YSR is definitely the most accurate of the 2 sites that do this - by far - but it is more directionally correct vs completely accurate. 

I think the biggest win of mixing DA vs non DA is that the playing styles are different.  Possession, high press, counter attacking, bunker / pure long ball teams.  At the youth level, it’s about making decisions and the more styles and types of players they encounter will test their soccer IQ - and hopefully develop.


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## eastbaysoccer

Coronavirus Claims U.S. Soccer Development Academy — Is College Soccer Next?
					

To think about how else American soccer will change during this time, we should ask ourselves where it already appeared most vulnerable. Answering that question honestly should warn us that the men’s college game could be in for a serious decline.




					www.forbes.com


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## jpeter

eastbaysoccer said:


> Coronavirus Claims U.S. Soccer Development Academy — Is College Soccer Next?
> 
> 
> To think about how else American soccer will change during this time, we should ask ourselves where it already appeared most vulnerable. Answering that question honestly should warn us that the men’s college game could be in for a serious decline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com


Good post & article.

With the NCCA coming out this week in saying no Athletics until in person colleges resumes and the students return to campus there could be financial problems as a result. The non money makers could be in the most Jeopardy and we've already seen a few of them just drop soccer already especially at the smaller to mid sized universities.

Hopefully things get back on track eventually and the football money starts to pour in again but got to hurt losing the basketball tournament and funds that would have been collected


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## gottouch

Kante said:


> could see MLS taking TFA, and maybe Barca (their location is a tough travel)


Tough travel is right. How would the MLS travel work? This seems a bit crazy if you do not


thedudeabides said:


> I don't have a son that plays for LAFC. I have been to many of their youth matches and scouted many of their players. I'm just making observations on what I have seen from tracking players/teams for many years using stats and real results over hype. Was anything I said about them not true or overly biased? I know for a fact they have been beating up non-mls DA's for the last few years and sometimes with youngers. You can't have a so called uniform DA system when there is a 5-6 goal difference between the top and bottom. It's bad for both ends of the spectrum.


We have quite a few friends with boys on those teams. We have played against and sometimes been close. Always enjoyed watching them play. They are always very strong. I agree about the goal differential. Often not a lot of parity among that DA bracket at all.


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## Kante

A good article with a ray of hope for what could come next. SoccerAmerica has done more in the last two years to hold the powers that be accountable than most - if not all - other soccer pubs. In these tough times, probably worth subscribing to 1) stay up developments in a rapidly changing environment 2) help keep these guys afloat

_








						FC Dallas president Dan Hunt in face of the current soccer crisis: 'I think we need to be investing even more in youth soccer'
					

Hunt believes rival MLS clubs who are not committed to youth development will fall behind, whatever the new world looks like.




					www.socceramerica.com
				



_
Key quote the article: 

_"It's incumbent on owners to take the lead in this," he (FC Dallas Dan Hunt) said, "and I want to be that person. I hope we have some other fellow owners who care, and I know we do, but we have people with varying interests in how they develop young players. For any ownership group to say they don't have good talent in their market is farcical for me. It's a joke because it tells me you are not working at it."_​​_Any time he hears that from another owner he says he laughs and asks, "Is the DNA of a player in Dallas better than the DNA of a player in your market? Then people get real quiet because they know it's because of a lack of effort."_​​


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## focomoso

thedudeabides said:


> So I would agree with much of that. ...


So, yes. We're mostly just splitting hairs here. YSR is definitely _way_ better than Got Soccer. We played the supposed number one team in the country according to got soccer and lost 1-0 (we are definitely not just one goal below the best team in the country). Got Soccer's model is closer to the one used in tennis. You give each tournament a numeric value and assign points based on how well teams do. This works in tennis because the value of the tournaments is set by prize money, but it fails miserably in youth soccer. This is why a... reasonably good, but nothing special team from New Jersey, can be ranked number one. They would probably be, top 20 or 30 if they played in SoCal.

But I do think that DA teams are (were) undervalued in the YSR rankings because of the lack of games between groups - not out-of-state DAs, I have no way to assess them - but in so cal, the same sandbagging effect holds. Beating up everyone in flight 1, especially, as you say, if you pour on the goals at the end of a blowout, inflates your ranking. This happens less often in the DA (LAFC notwithstanding).


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## jpeter

*U.S. Soccer Development Academy Club Realignment Tracker*









						U.S. Soccer Development Academy Club Realignment Tracker (Boys 1.0)
					

SoccerWire is launching a DA Club Realignment Tracker.




					www.soccerwire.com
				




To keep up with this evolving story, SoccerWire is launching a Boys DA Club Realignment Tracker, which will be updated regularly, as more former DA clubs finalize their plans for the 2020-2021 season. An initial Girls DA Club Realignment Tracker will be posted later this week.


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