# Prices for tournament parking, souvenirs, food, etc



## espola (Feb 25, 2018)

After stumbling onto this page --

https://www.soccerloco.com/tournaments/cal-south/cal-south-state-cup

my first thought was "Still not as high as Surf Cup 10 years ago", I realized that the prices were much higher than I ever paid for souvenirs at any Surf Cup.

A parent at State Cup games in Oceanside told me that parking price there had gone up from $10 to $12 this year.  (I had to ask because I took the Sprinter from the free parking lot in Escondido and walked up the hill - but I was schlepping a kid or two and all their gear.)  The official US Government position is that the inflation for the last year is about 2%, not 20%.  Maybe they slipped the decimal point?


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## Desert619 (Feb 25, 2018)

I was at Oceanside this January and I paid $10 a day.


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## AFC (Feb 26, 2018)

Desert619 said:


> I was at Oceanside this January and I paid $10 a day.


It was $12 for State Cup at Oceanside in February


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## espola (Feb 26, 2018)




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## espola (Feb 26, 2018)

espola said:


>


I asked the parents if they offered a 2-day discount pass.


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## soccermama213 (Feb 26, 2018)

It’s just going to keep going up because they can. Pretty soon we will be paying $20 a day. Atleast Silverlakes has something to show for our  parking $$ but surf and Oceanside have nothing


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## GunninGopher (Feb 26, 2018)

People sure do like to bitch.

I don't know why people complain to pay for parking when we have another nice facility like Oceanside available in San Diego County now. If they couldn't charge for parking, they'd close it down. Same goes for Silverlakes. Seriously, it isn't that much to pay for a nice facility. I think some of the venues are having financial difficulty. If so, a slight bump in parking revenue makes sense.

I'm fine paying for parking at those facilities (and a few others). If you want to save money to park, get your games in Apple Valley. Last time I was there, I think it was $5. Hey, there is Hourglass with a few patches of grass still growing and they can squeeze maybe 8 little fields there and I think that you can get away without paying. Hopefully there are no conflicts with the siblings other game at some middle school that has free parking and is 30 minutes away. Ryan has about a dozen fields and parking is free, but there isn't much of it. Of course, people gripe about the grass when parking is free. Free parking and good fields, then they'll find something else to bitch about.



espola said:


> (I had to ask because I took the Sprinter from the free parking lot in Escondido and walked up the hill - but I was schlepping a kid or two and all their gear.)


You did all that so you didn't have to pay for parking? I assume you already had the Sprinter pass for everyone.


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## Monkey (Feb 26, 2018)

GunninGopher said:


> People sure do like to bitch.
> 
> I don't know why people complain to pay for parking when we have another nice facility like Oceanside available in San Diego County now.


No facility is nice until they have real bathrooms that flush and have water.  My wife would rather drive to Norco than Oceanside from San Diego and I think she has a special deal with the feed store in Del Mar.


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## MWN (Feb 26, 2018)

On average is costs a facility about $1,000 per acre per month in basic care for a high end fields (bermuda grass, aerate, verticut, mow, fertilize, gopher control, etc.).  Add in the cost of water and lining fields and you add another $500 per month per acre.  So at $1,500 per acre per month, a facility like Oceanside should have a hard cost of about $78k per month or $936k per year.  Add in staff, taxes, insurance, utilities, interest payments, and you have another $50k to $75k of expenses.  So, a facility like SoCal needs anywhere between $130k to $150k to break even.  Field rental will be about $750 per field per day so you are looking at revenue of about $90k per month assuming 3 weekends at 20 fields per week (fairly high utilization), which SoCal rarely gets.

The only possible way SoCal can hope to break even is to charge parking.  That said, SoCal is a unique property in that it has serious issues with ground settling causing it to lose business due to water issues AND because it is south of the I-5 border checkpoint, causing many teams with parents of questionable immigration status to avoid the fields.

Bottom line, I'm not surprised they are charging $12 bucks.


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## Monkey (Feb 26, 2018)

MWN said:


> On average is costs a facility about $1,000 per acre per month in basic care for a high end fields (bermuda grass, aerate, verticut, mow, fertilize, gopher control, etc.).  Add in the cost of water and lining fields and you add another $500 per month per acre.  So at $1,500 per acre per month, a facility like Oceanside should have a hard cost of about $78k per month or $936k per year.  Add in staff, taxes, insurance, utilities, interest payments, and you have another $50k to $75k of expenses.  So, a facility like SoCal needs anywhere between $130k to $150k to break even.  Field rental will be about $750 per field per day so you are looking at revenue of about $90k per month assuming 3 weekends at 20 fields per week (fairly high utilization), which SoCal rarely gets.
> 
> The only possible way SoCal can hope to break even is to charge parking.  That said, SoCal is a unique property in that it has serious issues with ground settling causing it to lose business due to water issues AND because it is south of the I-5 border checkpoint, causing many teams with parents of questionable immigration status to avoid the fields.
> 
> Bottom line, I'm not surprised they are charging $12 bucks.


You do not know what their costs are unless you look at their Development Agreement with the City.


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## MWN (Feb 26, 2018)

Monkey said:


> You do not know what their costs are unless you look at their Development Agreement with the City.


I do know what the basic costs are given my experience with other facilities and development projects I have on the board.


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## Monkey (Feb 26, 2018)

The City of Oceanside is a different beast.


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## espola (Feb 26, 2018)

GunninGopher said:


> People sure do like to bitch.
> 
> I don't know why people complain to pay for parking when we have another nice facility like Oceanside available in San Diego County now. If they couldn't charge for parking, they'd close it down. Same goes for Silverlakes. Seriously, it isn't that much to pay for a nice facility. I think some of The Ranchothe venues are having financial difficulty. If so, a slight bump in parking revenue makes sense.
> 
> ...


I don't know what the "Sprinter Pass for everyone" is.  The Rancho del Oro Sprinter station is across the street from the El Corazon location, about a quarter-mile walk uphill to the back of the parking lot.  Parking in Escondido is free, and a Senior one-way ticket is $1.  My in-laws gave me a ride back down the the station after the game, and another $1 fare got me back to my truck in Escondido.

If the parking were free, I still would have saved money parking in Escondido and $1 Sprinter ride compared to driving 20 miles.


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## espola (Feb 26, 2018)

Monkey said:


> You do not know what their costs are unless you look at their Development Agreement with the City.


That must be a public document.  Is it accessible on line?


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## dreamz (Feb 26, 2018)

espola said:


>


The extra $2 you are paying goes to Cal South. The venue has their set parking fee and Cal South wants a piece of the pie too so they tack on the added $2 per day.


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## Monkey (Feb 26, 2018)

espola said:


> That must be a public document.  Is it accessible on line?


It is a public document and the City Council voted to approve it.  I thought you had posted it a couple years ago but I am not sure if it is online.  Must be a couple hundred pages.


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## espola (Feb 26, 2018)

Monkey said:


> It is a public document and the City Council voted to approve it.  I thought you had posted it a couple years ago but I am not sure if it is online.  Must be a couple hundred pages.


What I remember from those days is that the city  promised the residents a nice park with a few sports fields scattered about.  I guess that disappeared in the negotiations.

An unanswered question is about the No Parking signs posted in Seagate Way across from entrance gates.  They bear SCSC logos, not Oceanside City or PD.  Are those allowed under the agreement (or perhaps required to keep the street clear?)?  Would the OPD ticket cars parked there?


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## espola (Feb 26, 2018)

dreamz said:


> The extra $2 you are paying goes to Cal South. The venue has their set parking fee and Cal South wants a piece of the pie too so they tack on the added $2 per day.


Since they opened, parking for State Cup has been the same $10 as for other tournaments.


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## espola (Feb 26, 2018)

From SCSC webpage FAQ today --

Parking: $12/day per vehicle, which includes In/Out Privileges. For easy re-entrance, please display your parking pass on your vehicle dashboard. The parking lot opens 1 hour prior to the first game time and closes a half-hour after the last game.

https://www.socalsportscomplex.com/faq-1​


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## MWN (Feb 26, 2018)

@Monkey and @espola, the agreement is here:
http://www.ci.oceanside.ca.us/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?BlobID=46599

The basic terms of the Lease Agreement with SC Sports (page 33 of above link) are a 25 year lease with 2 10 year options (2.01) ; pays 10% of gross percentage rent after $1.4M threshold (Section 3.02). Parking is prohibited on surrounding public streets during use (Section 1.09). 

The relevance of the $1.4M number is that represents the negotiated "break even" point.  Until SoCal Sports has $1.4M in gross revenue, it doesn't pay rent.  My estimate above was $78k + $50k = $128k x12 = $1.5M, which is fairly close to the $1.4M number.  Hmmm, I must know something after all.


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## espola (Feb 26, 2018)

MWN said:


> @Monkey and @espola, the agreement is here:
> http://www.ci.oceanside.ca.us/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?BlobID=46599
> 
> The basic terms of the Lease Agreement with SC Sports (page 33 of above link) are a 25 year lease with 2 10 year options (2.01) ; pays 10% of gross percentage rent after $1.4M threshold (Section 3.02). Parking is prohibited on surrounding public streets during use (Section 1.09).
> ...


Thank  you.


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## 4theloveofsoccer (Feb 26, 2018)

I pay 10 at silver lake soccer complex and I grab 2 sodas an a bag of chips end up paying $8.50 thats ridiculous


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## espola (Feb 26, 2018)

MWN said:


> @Monkey and @espola, the agreement is here:
> http://www.ci.oceanside.ca.us/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?BlobID=46599
> 
> The basic terms of the Lease Agreement with SC Sports (page 33 of above link) are a 25 year lease with 2 10 year options (2.01) ; pays 10% of gross percentage rent after $1.4M threshold (Section 3.02). Parking is prohibited on surrounding public streets during use (Section 1.09).
> ...


Another point is the "City Fields and Park Area" and "Walking Trail", shown on Exhibit B of the lease document, which are supposed to be kept accessible to City residents when events are not being held.  Has anyone tried to get  into those?  Are the gates opened for that purpose?


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## Monkey (Feb 26, 2018)

4theloveofsoccer said:


> I pay 10 at silver lake soccer complex and I grab 2 sodas an a bag of chips end up paying $8.50 thats ridiculous


Then bring your own soda and chips or better yet forgo the junk food.


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## Monkey (Feb 26, 2018)

I believe the original agreement was already amended, maybe shortly  before it opened??  Also, you include interest payments in your number, for what?   Did they pay an amount upfront?  Finally how does the clubs that use the fields for their practices factor into this?  I don't plan to read the DDA but I remember discussing it a long time ago and there were some unique provisions that were very pro tenant.


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## JustAParent (Feb 26, 2018)

espola's pet gripe surfaces again. I can just picture him, shuffling a quarter mile from the train stop, Birkenstocks lightly slapping the pavement, walking stick in hand. Combing the parking lot for a discarded parking pass to post on the forums with which he's obsessed. "Two dollars," he mutters to himself, shaking his head and picking the remnants of his tuna fish lunch off of his stained Poway HS T-Shirt. 

As demonstrated in this thread, these fields are expensive to maintain. I have it on good authority that Silverlakes loses hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and would have closed if not for the billionaire propping it up. I doubt these other facilities are much better off. If my choices are playing on mostly dirt in 30 mph winds in Lancaster, or shuffling from middle school to middle school in a tournament, I'm paying the $12 for well-maintained fields all in one spot and I'm thankful for the opportunity.


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## El Clasico (Feb 26, 2018)

JustAParent said:


> espola's pet gripe surfaces again. I can just picture him, shuffling a quarter mile from the train stop, Birkenstocks lightly slapping the pavement, walking stick in hand. Combing the parking lot for a discarded parking pass to post on the forums with which he's obsessed. "Two dollars," he mutters to himself, shaking his head and picking the remnants of his tuna fish lunch off of his stained Poway HS T-Shirt.
> 
> As demonstrated in this thread, these fields are expensive to maintain. I have it on good authority that Silverlakes loses hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and would have closed if not for the billionaire propping it up. I doubt these other facilities are much better off. If my choices are playing on mostly dirt in 30 mph winds in Lancaster, or shuffling from middle school to middle school in a tournament, I'm paying the $12 for well-maintained fields all in one spot and I'm thankful for the opportunity.


Your information regarding the P&L of Silverlakes and the owner are incorrect


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## Monkey (Feb 26, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> Your information regarding the P&L of Silverlakes and the owner are incorrect


But he has it "on good authority" so he must be right?


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## espola (Feb 26, 2018)

JustAParent said:


> espola's pet gripe surfaces again. I can just picture him, shuffling a quarter mile from the train stop, Birkenstocks lightly slapping the pavement, walking stick in hand. Combing the parking lot for a discarded parking pass to post on the forums with which he's obsessed. "Two dollars," he mutters to himself, shaking his head and picking the remnants of his tuna fish lunch off of his stained Poway HS T-Shirt.
> 
> As demonstrated in this thread, these fields are expensive to maintain. I have it on good authority that Silverlakes loses hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and would have closed if not for the billionaire propping it up. I doubt these other facilities are much better off. If my choices are playing on mostly dirt in 30 mph winds in Lancaster, or shuffling from middle school to middle school in a tournament, I'm paying the $12 for well-maintained fields all in one spot and I'm thankful for the opportunity.


I did have a walking stick.


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## espola (Feb 26, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> Your information regarding the P&L of Silverlakes and the owner are incorrect


It's never stopped him before.


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## JustAParent (Feb 26, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> Your information regarding the P&L of Silverlakes and the owner are incorrect


I'm shocked that your definitive denial was not immediately followed by any sort of evidence. 

Balboa pays $80k+ per month to Norco for lease and debt repayments. That's before paying one dollar of actual expenses. I'm inclined to believe my source.


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## MWN (Feb 26, 2018)

@JustAParent and @El Clasico,

Silverlakes is a another animal all together.  Here is the PPM for the $5.9M bond.
https://emma.msrb.org/ER958862-ER749578-ER1151172.pdf and Cal South and SCDSL contracts.

Silverlakes did its deal through 3 investment rounds: (1) Insiders; (2) 2015 $20M Bond; and (3) 2016 $5.9M Bond.  Before the $5.9 Bond it was in debt to the tune of $36M (see, page 73 of PDF). While I don't know RB, I can tell you the guy's net worth in 2016 was pegged at just north of $28M (see, page 66), which is a far, far, far cry from being a Billionaire.

What gets me is these guys seriously overestimated some basic assumptions in their financial models.   For example, page 62 Tournament Assumptions are nuts.  20 fields turned 8 times per day?  Maybe if its just U9's.  18 cars per team?  Ha, ha, ha.  Not in this lifetime will any facility see that many cars (more like 12 to 13 per team) because there are always 2-3 players hitching rides and carpooling.  Once you get to the Olders, then you get about 9 cars per team.

The restaurant/food assumptions are also way off the mark.  The Per Forma on page 93 shows restaurant sales will be about $2M in 2017.  We know that the restaurant didn't open this year until very late (Nov./Thanksgiving) so the $2M in revenue is off the books.  The kicker is the "Backyard" and "Concert" Revenue.  There is absolutely no way Silverlake's saw $5.1M for concert revenue in 2017.  Its not a LiveNation or IHeartRadio or AEG.

Bottom line, it would not surprise me to see that its running seriously shy of its projections and in a negative cash flow situation.


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## El Clasico (Feb 26, 2018)

JustAParent said:


> I'm shocked that your definitive denial was not immediately followed by any sort of evidence.
> 
> Balboa pays $80k+ per month to Norco for lease and debt repayments. That's before paying one dollar of actual expenses. I'm inclined to believe my source.


Damn, did I forget to reference any evidence. My bad.  My evidence is "good authority" Hell, if it's good enough for you, then it must be good enough for me....idiot.

The city of Norco does not receive $80k a month from BMG and that number is way off the mark.  Revenues and profits have exceeded all expectations since opening day. BMG's own proformas project a net positive cash flow of 3.5 million in 2018. Expect them to continue to reinvest and adding more amenities which will further increase revenues.

Source or no source, you have no f'ing idea what you are talking about.  These large venues are ALL cash flow positive and extremely lucrative businesses.

By the way, RB is long f'ing way from being a billionaire and the fact that you made that silly a** statement tells me that you don't know who he is and that you have no idea of any of the partners networths.


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## El Clasico (Feb 26, 2018)

I might add that if it were my business, you can bet that I would be losing money on paper every year.  Who in their right mind thinks that these investors are in this to lose money?


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## Multi Sport (Feb 26, 2018)

soccermama213 said:


> It’s just going to keep going up because they can. Pretty soon we will be paying $20 a day. Atleast Silverlakes has something to show for our  parking $$ but surf and Oceanside have nothing


If we are done early I will drive out holding my parking pass outside my window. Usually someone driving in will see me doing this and slow down to grab my ticket.


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## Monkey (Feb 26, 2018)

I did not read the DDA for Oceanside but who paid for the original development?  For some reason I thought there was going to be minimal debt service.  I know in some DDAs the City shells out the bulk of the development $ in exchange for lease payments and the generation of tax revenue and other developments coming in.  For example big box tenants in malls use to get the build out for free in exchange for attracting other tenants.


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## espola (Feb 27, 2018)

soccermama213 said:


> It’s just going to keep going up because they can. Pretty soon we will be paying $20 a day. Atleast Silverlakes has something to show for our  parking $$ but surf and Oceanside have nothing


If it were $2 a day I would park there without thinking, but at $20/day, people will start getting creative about transportation and parking revenues might actually start falling - classic Laffer curve.


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## JustAParent (Feb 27, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> Damn, did I forget to reference any evidence. My bad.  My evidence is "good authority" Hell, if it's good enough for you, then it must be good enough for me....idiot.
> 
> The city of Norco does not receive $80k a month from BMG and that number is way off the mark.  Revenues and profits have exceeded all expectations since opening day. BMG's own proformas project a net positive cash flow of 3.5 million in 2018. Expect them to continue to reinvest and adding more amenities which will further increase revenues.
> 
> ...


So, you have seen BMG's internal budget and 2018 projections? I don't believe you. 

As for the $80k a month: https://www.pe.com/2016/02/04/norco-city-settles-for-500000-with-irs-over-silverlakes-loan/

"Balboa still has to repay the money used for infrastructure improvements, and recently agreed to a series of repayments beginning in July. The $45,515 per month utilities repayment plan is separate from a $36,000 per month lease Balboa is currently paying. All payments and interest will be deposited back into the city’s water and sewer funds."


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## El Clasico (Feb 27, 2018)

So your "source" is an old newspaper article? I shouldn't be surprised. A lot has changed in the last couple of years. A lot. And there is more to come but I am sure your "source" has already filled you in on what the "Billionaire" has planned for the facility next.


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## coachsamy (Feb 27, 2018)

Oceanside Sports Complex is one of the biggest bait and switch ever made by developers and Surf Cup. After a few years of being open it doesnt resemble the original plans. In fact the compost facility creates such a healthy breeze for the athletes!


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## jrcaesar (Feb 27, 2018)

From Dec. 1, 2017 story at http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/communities/north-county/sd-no-elcorazon-construction-20171201-story.html:

_The Oceanside Planning Commission approved basic design plans last year for an Olympic-sized competition pool, an instructional pool, a children’s water-play area and other facilities.

The city has about half of the $14 million to $16 million it needs to build the aquatics center, which would have the city’s first new swimming pools in more than 50 years. However, earlier this year the City Council voted against issuing bonds for the remainder of the construction money, along with funding for other projects, because of questions about how to cover the annual $1 million in maintenance costs.

A new proposal for funding the aquatics center will be presented as part of next year’s capital improvement budget, Weiss said._​


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## espola (Feb 27, 2018)

jrcaesar said:


> From Dec. 1, 2017 story at http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/communities/north-county/sd-no-elcorazon-construction-20171201-story.html:
> 
> _The Oceanside Planning Commission approved basic design plans last year for an Olympic-sized competition pool, an instructional pool, a children’s water-play area and other facilities.
> 
> ...


There is a construction fence around that area and some survey stakes, but no ground broken yet.


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## espola (Feb 27, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> Oceanside Sports Complex is one of the biggest bait and switch ever made by developers and Surf Cup. After a few years of being open it doesnt resemble the original plans. In fact the compost facility creates such a healthy breeze for the athletes!


But it's only temporary - on  a 25-year renewable lease.


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## MA0812 (Feb 27, 2018)

Good thing Silverlakes is still only $10 then hahaha....... Spent over $150 on parking there since Nov. At least the facilities are well maintained. Cost of doing business. Could be worse.


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## espola (Feb 27, 2018)

MA0812 said:


> Good thing Silverlakes is still only $10 then hahaha....... Spent over $150 on parking there since Nov. At least the facilities are well maintained. Cost of doing business. Could be worse.


Hmmmm--  the brochure for the upcoming Oceanside SoCal Cup Tournament in August says parking is $10. or $20 for RVs.  Perhaps they weren't informed of the price change.

http://socalcup.com/


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