# U 20 Women's World Cup



## socalkdg (Nov 15, 2016)

Anyone watch the US France game?   Was not impressed with the US team.   Seemed France was the better team.   Any time a pass was made to a midfielder France would steal it.  They also seemed first to the ball, and were a much better heading team.  First touches were not clean overall.  Pugh and Sanchez a couple bright spots for the team, but that was about it.   Near the end the US replaced forward Jessie Scarpa with Ally Watt and this seemed to help up top as I felt Ally Watt was much better than Scarpa.  I apologize if someone's daughter here is Scarpa.


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## Justafan (Nov 15, 2016)

The scariest part is that not only was France better technically (by a significant margin), they had better athletes!  They were slightly bigger and faster, as a whole, than the U.S.  You could tell the some of the US players were a little shell shocked by how good France is.  Like the announcer said, getting out of that game with 1 point was a win for the US.  Looked like a mirror image of the U-17's, not a good sign.  While Pugh and Sanchez had some nice runs, it was usually all individual.  You're not going to beat France like that.


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 15, 2016)

socalkdg said:


> Anyone watch the US France game?   Was not impressed with the US team.   Seemed France was the better team.   Any time a pass was made to a midfielder France would steal it.  They also seemed first to the ball, and were a much better heading team.  First touches were not clean overall.  Pugh and Sanchez a couple bright spots for the team, but that was about it.   Near the end the US replaced forward Jessie Scarpa with Ally Watt and this seemed to help up top as I felt Ally Watt was much better than Scarpa.  I apologize if someone's daughter here is Scarpa.


I agree wholeheartedly.  Outside of Pugh and Sanchez there were very few bright spots.  Our midfield was non-existent.  Ogle struggled to receive the ball let alone turn and do anything with it.  There are a ton of Afro-French players so we were not going to out-athlete us and their technique in the midfield and up top was superb.  A draw was a good result as it could have easily been 2-0.


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 15, 2016)

Justafan said:


> The scariest part is that not only was France better technically (by a significant margin), they had better athletes!  They were slightly bigger and faster, as a whole, than the U.S.  You could tell the some of the US players were a little shell shocked by how good France is.  Like the announcer said, getting out of that game with 1 point was a win for the US.  Looked like a mirror image of the U-17's, not a good sign.  While Pugh and Sanchez had some nice runs, it was usually all individual.  You're not going to beat France like that.


France is sooooo good.  Them and Spain are going to be problematic at the senior level very soon.


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## bruinblue14 (Nov 15, 2016)

France #3 was so fun to watch. #7 too.


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## Justafan (Nov 15, 2016)

bruinblue14 said:


> France #3 was so fun to watch. #7 too.


That #7 is a beast.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Nov 15, 2016)

What cracks me up is all the talk and excitement of the USSDA coming in to help the USWNT develop players in their desired style of play. So explain why... whenever the USWNT U20's got a goal-kick the whole team shifts to one side of the field around the half way line to compete for the aimless launch from the keeper  What happened to building out from the back? (My guess is it's too difficult for this staff to coach with any degree of confidence) Is that no longer the plan? We're going to demand that our Youth Soccer Clubs implement a specific style of play...but we'll give the coaches in the top job a pass? We're instead going to go back to the good old tried and tested hoof and run? It's won us World Cups in the past I guess!  The Women's game and those player's moving through the "system" should be afraid. Success in results has blinded us to the massive deficiencies in our technical and tactical performance. France not only matched us physically, but they have a much better understanding and execution of the game....How does that happen? Well it happens because the hierarchy of USWNT continues to be a "buddy-club"...Why bother bringing in a new Academy to follow the same old dinosaurs....strip out the antiques and get some new, invigorating leadership into the big seats and focus the development of the younger players, on actual player development and education and not on creating a syphon of players into a tiny pool of kids, who will only be underwhelmed by their education and development, when they reach the coaches of yesteryear higher up the chain!


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 15, 2016)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> What cracks me up is all the talk and excitement of the USSDA coming in to help the USWNT develop players in their desired style of play. So explain why... whenever the USWNT U20's got a goal-kick the whole team shifts to one side of the field around the half way line to compete for the aimless launch from the keeper  What happened to building out from the back? (My guess is it's too difficult for this staff to coach with any degree of confidence) Is that no longer the plan? We're going to demand that our Youth Soccer Clubs implement a specific style of play...but we'll give the coaches in the top job a pass? We're instead going to go back to the good old tried and tested hoof and run? It's won us World Cups in the past I guess!  The Women's game and those player's moving through the "system" should be afraid. Success in results has blinded us to the massive deficiencies in our technical and tactical performance. France not only matched us physically, but they have a much better understanding and execution of the game....How does that happen? Well it happens because the hierarchy of USWNT continues to be a "buddy-club"...Why bother bringing in a new Academy to follow the same old dinosaurs....strip out the antiques and get some new, invigorating leadership into the big seats and focus the development of the younger players, on actual player development and education and not on creating a syphon of players into a tiny pool of kids, who will only be underwhelmed by their education and development, when they reach the coaches of yesteryear higher up the chain!



Great post!  It's not the players it's the coaching of the players from the bottom up.  Once the coach realized that France was better than the US team the "build out of the back" mantra went out the window!  It transformed into kick it to Pugh and hope.  Terrible.


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## pulguita (Nov 15, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> Great post!  It's not the players it's the coaching of the players from the bottom up.  Once the coach realized that France was better than the US team the "build out of the back" mantra went out the window!  It transformed into kick it to Pugh and hope.  Terrible.


Dude she set out in a 4-4-2.  Flat no less.  When was the last time you saw that?   Are you kidding me.  And when ol #8 is bigger, faster, stronger, and more technical than your best you should have a better plan than knock it around the back and then send it over the top.


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 15, 2016)

pulguita said:


> Dude she set out in a 4-4-2.  Flat no less.  When was the last time you saw that?   Are you kidding me.  And when ol #8 is bigger, faster, stronger, and more technical than your best you should have a better plan than knock it around the back and then send it over the top.


I agree.  My daughter couldn't believe that they were not only getting outpossessed but they were BFS too.  That was definitely a coaching opportunity.


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## pulguita (Nov 15, 2016)

pulguita said:


> Dude she set out in a 4-4-2.  Flat no less.  When was the last time you saw that?   Are you kidding me.  And when ol #8 is bigger, faster, stronger, and more technical than your best you should have a better plan than knock it around the back and then send it over the top.


Sorry meant #4.  She is a beast.


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## socalkdg (Nov 18, 2016)

Team looked much better vs New Zealand.  Put Sanchez up top with Pugh, and both end up scoring.  Big difference.   Watt came in late and used her speed to score as well.   Need to get her more playing time as well.


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## Real Deal (Nov 22, 2016)

Did anyone see the game vs Ghana?


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 22, 2016)

Real Deal said:


> Did anyone see the game vs Ghana?


Yes.


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## Bayernfan (Nov 28, 2016)

Watched the France Germany game, what a treat. If you want to see how far women's soccer has progressed, this is one to watch. France's # 7 is spectacular, but there were any number of players on either side that were just fantastic. I think physically, these teams have caught up to the US, technically all three (USA, France and Germany) are good, but tactically these teams were just on a different level. I think Japan should also be good...should make for some great semi's.


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 28, 2016)

http://www.soccerwire.com/blog-posts/shawhan-us-u-20-women-dont-deserve-to-be-in-world-cup-semis/


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## Bayernfan (Nov 28, 2016)

Ouch!  I have not watched the US mexico game, but I did watch France dominate the US side. Short of one french yellow card the US might easily be out of the tourney. Now they have a reasonably easy route to finals, although North Korea has beaten them before. The side of the bracket with France, Germany Japan and Brazil was pretty stacked...with USA, Mexico Spain and N. Korea in the other.  Anyway, what the USA is doing reminds me a lot of Germany in the early 2000's. Thought they could win with discipline, fitness and mentality....until they got their clock cleaned.


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 28, 2016)

Bayernfan said:


> Ouch!  I have not watched the US mexico game, but I did watch France dominate the US side. Short of one french yellow card the US might easily be out of the tourney. Now they have a reasonably easy route to finals, although North Korea has beaten them before. The side of the bracket with France, Germany Japan and Brazil was pretty stacked...with USA, Mexico Spain and N. Korea in the other.  Anyway, what the USA is doing reminds me a lot of Germany in the early 2000's. Thought they could win with discipline, fitness and mentality....until they got their clock cleaned.


I just hope that they win tonight.  10pm game time on FS1.


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## outside! (Nov 28, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> I just hope that they win tonight.  10pm game time on FS1.


I do too, but I have watched every US game this tournament and I wouldn't put money on them. Both the U20 and U17 US teams looked like they have rarely practiced together and their pass completion rate was truly dismal. Maybe they should select some players that can pass and receive.


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## Bayernfan (Nov 29, 2016)

After reading the article, I went back and watched the US Mexico game. I though Mexico was the better side, but the US had a couple of players with some flair (Pugh and Sanchez). Other than that I did not see alot of skill, or tactical awareness. Does not bode well fro the future NT. One difference, almost all of the French and German players play in professional leagues, PSG, O. Lyon, Wolfsburg, Bayern, etc. while the US players are ether playing for some club team, or a college team. Neither one of which comes close to duplicating the experience of playing full time under top notch professional coaching. 

Both Germany and France a a professional development system, for both men and women, that has consistent philosophy . Nothing of the kind here, with clubs by and large being more concerned with wins and losses than development, and colleges limited by NCAA rules. So while French's "system" of play is really just long ball, 'm not sure you can teach players the nuances of the game, after years of poor coaching. 

Lastly, when I first started watching women's soccer, we used to cream Mexico. I wonder how come the Mexcan team can play much better soccer, with so many players US based?


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 29, 2016)

Bayernfan said:


> After reading the article, I went back and watched the US Mexico game. I though Mexico was the better side, but the US had a couple of players with some flair (Pugh and Sanchez). Other than that I did not see alot of skill, or tactical awareness. Does not bode well fro the future NT. One difference, almost all of the French and German players play in professional leagues, PSG, O. Lyon, Wolfsburg, Bayern, etc. while the US players are ether playing for some club team, or a college team. Neither one of which comes close to duplicating the experience of playing full time under top notch professional coaching.
> 
> Both Germany and France a a professional development system, for both men and women, that has consistent philosophy . Nothing of the kind here, with clubs by and large being more concerned with wins and losses than development, and colleges limited by NCAA rules. So while French's "system" of play is really just long ball, 'm not sure you can teach players the nuances of the game, after years of poor coaching.
> 
> Lastly, when I first started watching women's soccer, we used to cream Mexico. I wonder how come the Mexican team can play much better soccer, with so many players US based?


You already know the answer.  It isn't that we don't have the talent pool or the technical players.  It is a matter of choosing the right players and implementing a system.  With attacking players like Pugh, Sanchez and Watt we don't have many excuses.  The weakness that I saw was in the midfield and on defense and of course tactics.  Not to mention the team was exhausted after trying to press North Korea for the first 25 minutes.  That may work in college with unlimited substitutions and multiple reentry, but with 3 subs that just doesn't work well.


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## chiefs (Nov 29, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> You already know the answer.  It isn't that we don't have the talent pool or the technical players.  It is a matter of choosing the right players and implementing a system.  With attacking players like Pugh, Sanchez and Watt we don't have many excuses.  The weakness that I saw was in the midfield and on defense and of course tactics.  Not to mention the team was exhausted after trying to press North Korea for the first 25 minutes.  That may work in college with unlimited substitutions and multiple reentry, but with 3 subs that just doesn't work well.


Good points...Stayed up late, and of course was disappointed with the US team in so many ways:  Pugh holds onto the ball way too long-she's a selfish player, her passing when she actually does, is inaccurate.; Korea was so much more of a team, and team play-not a bunch of individuals; I question the player selection ie. had a defender who plays forward in college-quite obvious she didnt understand the position properly, and got burned several times. Kickball USA....


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## outside! (Nov 29, 2016)

I don't understand why they pick forwards to play defense. In general forwards have better ball control than defenders, but it is a rare forward that can defend 1v1 the way a dedicated defender can. Some defenders just have a knack for being in the way (half of playing defense is just getting in the way) and sticking their foot in at just the right time.


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 29, 2016)

outside! said:


> I don't understand why they pick forwards to play defense. In general forwards have better ball control than defenders, but it is a rare forward that can defend 1v1 the way a dedicated defender can. Some defenders just have a knack for being in the way (half of playing defense is just getting in the way) and sticking their foot in at just the right time.


It might make sense if they actually possessed the ball.  It's kind of like when they switch a receiver to defensive back in football.  It rarely works out.  They started 5 defenders in the game and 2 play forward in college.  Not to mention Fox will be a forward in college and she played wing and wide back.  Confusing player selection to say the least but you get what you get when you mandate they skip college.  With tuition fees, books, room and board at an elite private school (Stanford, Duke, Notre Dame to name a few) running upwards of $70k a year even if the player gets a 75% scholarship that means another year of paying $18k as a family.  I'm sorry but US soccer isn't paying any of those families' bills so that is going to cull your player pool just from a financial perspective.  If US soccer offered to pay for the missing year of college 100% they might have gotten more of the right players.


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## bruinblue14 (Nov 29, 2016)

outside! said:


> I don't understand why they pick forwards to play defense. In general forwards have better ball control than defenders, but it is a rare forward that can defend 1v1 the way a dedicated defender can. Some defenders just have a knack for being in the way (half of playing defense is just getting in the way) and sticking their foot in at just the right time.


Not sure what those 2 usually play in college, but it was rather comical when the center back and outside back collided and knocked each other over inside the box which allowed Korea space and time to get a shot off.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Nov 29, 2016)

Can't say I'm at all surprised. The US has scraped through every stage of this competition. This should be a good lesson for all those who convince themselves that if the best male athletes played soccer, we'd rule the World. Our athletes are phenomenal, top notch but our ability to teach and play the game are not! 
Look at all the other emerging nations who are moving to the forefront of the Women's game. They're not playing route one, over the top, direct soccer. They're possessing the ball, they're looking to create, looking to support the player on the ball. Yes we should maximize our athletic prowess, but come on, these kids are capable of playing a much higher level of game. The first game against France was a clear indication that this coach was out of her depth. 4-4-2 and trying to catch France with a long ball over the back line? Give me a break. I know it works at U13 in the SCDSL, but come on, why are we selling these kids short. Lets stop with the amateur hour, hiring of buddies and cronies in the National Team Coaching pool and lets get some quality coaches in place who implement a game that will serve our children for the next 20 years. The USSDA wants clubs to play possession football, but we allow that type of game plan at the National team level? What's the message there? This team had zero chance of success under that coach and process. Nothing personal, I'm sure she's a competent coach at a youth club level and a nice lady, but that group was poorly coached, mismanaged and a sad reflection of where we are allowing the game to go at this moment in time. Come USSF you can do MUCH better.


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## MakeAPlay (Nov 29, 2016)

The weaknesses of many players on both the U17 and U20 teams were exposed in these WWC's.  Let's see if they go back to the drawing board with this one.


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## timbuck (Nov 29, 2016)

I didn't watch, but it sounds like what we see at the youth level. A team will play possession soccer when they know they are the superior team. But when they get to the finals of a tournament, the coaches freak out and play boom ball.


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## reno114 (Nov 29, 2016)

timbuck said:


> I didn't watch, but it sounds like what we see at the youth level. A team will play possession soccer when they know they are the superior team. But when they get to the finals of a tournament, the coaches freak out and play boom ball.


They had no buildup from the back, no movement off the ball to receive a pass, just toot it and boot it. PATHETIC


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## Bayernfan (Nov 30, 2016)

A couple of comments regarding the US team play at the FIFA U-20 WC
1. I was extremely proud of our players. They played with heart, determination and passion. If you see Sanchez's run in overtime to win back the ball, you know that every player gave it all they had. Kudos to them, for going so far on so little.
2. They deserved better! SO much better!. But we failed them, not the other way around.
3. US soccer failed them, by abdicating their role in player development to the clubs and colleges. This is just so pathetic, I don't even know were to start, but probably Steve Sampson, who dismantled what little youth development there was and turned it over to the clubs. The Fact that nothing has changed in the 20 years since is falls on Sunnil....both the men's and women's programs are a shambles..
4. College failed them. College is for players who want to be something other than professional footballers( 99.999 percent of the population). When I watch the college game I'm always amazed at the total lack of progress. It's the same kick the crap out of the ball and out physical the other team. Unlimited subs (basically) screw it up even more. Sub par coaching combined with very limited practice and no real coaching philosophy. You reap what you sow.
5. Clubs failed them. I do see some clubs try and change the dynamic. But the majority of the big clubs exist solely to pay the Directors huge paychecks. No one seriously cares about development, when you can recruit superior athletes, and win in the short run. There are some clubs trying to break that model, but are regularly poached by the big, win at all costs teams. 
So I feel like the system betrayed these young women. They brought all the attributes you need to succeed, but were given lip service by the clubs, the colleges, and most disgustingly of all US soccer. Shame on us.


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## socalkdg (Nov 30, 2016)

Pretty much have to agree with everyone else here.  Wasn't a big fan of the keeper, she just didn't seem that mobile, team should include her more in the offense, but maybe she isn't capable of this.   Sanchez and Pugh had to help the defense and midfielders way too much, taking them away from any counter attacks.  The coach should have found a spot for Watt for the whole game, not just the last 30 minutes.   Girls weren't moving without the ball, bad first touches, waiting too long to make a pass.  Midfielders were always taking to long to join in attacks. Expected more.   The France Germany game was amazing.  Looking forward to watching the rest of this tourney.


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## reno114 (Nov 30, 2016)

The US needs to get rid of the dweeb Sunil Gulati.


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## socalkdg (Dec 2, 2016)

Anyone see the France girl go down after being head butted from behind as they went up for a header?  She tried to play after sitting out about 5 minutes, then had to leave and was sitting on sideline, then was taken away on a stretcher at the start of OT.  Such a dangerous play and nothing was called.


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## Justafan (Dec 2, 2016)

socalkdg said:


> Anyone see the France girl go down after being head butted from behind as they went up for a header?  She tried to play after sitting out about 5 minutes, then had to leave and was sitting on sideline, then was taken away on a stretcher at the start of OT.  Such a dangerous play and nothing was called.



That was arguably a straight red, she threw the knee in there as well.  Not even a yellow was criminal.


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## outside! (Dec 2, 2016)

It is possible that the ref did not see the severity of the contact during the game. A program of reviewing the video and being able to give out red cards after the game would help.


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## Eusebio (Dec 2, 2016)

I'm watching the USA v. Japan game, it's half-time now. It's embarrassing just how bad we're getting dominated. Japan is literally maintaining possession in our defensive third. Their technical ability is on a completely different level and they're simply toying with us. If Japan actually knew how to shoot the game would be 5-0 right now. Possession is 65-35 and they've out-shot us 15-0...in the first half.

After watching the first 45 minutes of this game, I pretty much have to agree with everyone in this thread. It's not just this U-20 women's team, our entire national team program is in shambles.  Both the women's U-17 and the women's team have looked under-whelming in recent tournaments where they struggled to hold possession. Our men's U-17 , U-20, and U-23 (which couldn't qualify for the Olympics) have all looked under-whelming. And we don't even need to mention the men's Senior team which got out-shot by a bunch of CONCACAF minnows in last year's Gold Cup and are down 0-2 in WC qualifying. And it's not just the results, the common theme among all these teams men and women is that we can't maintain possession against decent opposition. Our players have the tactical awareness and composure of a u12 team. 

While I'm glad that we've established the USSDA system, at the moment though it has to be considered an out-right failure so far. The DA system on the boys side has been around for 7-8 years, which is long enough to have had players go through the full cycle. Yet we have almost nothing to show for it. No perennial or world class players have come out of the DA system and USNTs still have no real cohesion. All our youth players who do have potential like Christian Pulisic spent less than a year in our DA system and saw vast improvements once they trained overseas.  

I actually was in favor of the DA program coming to the women's side. But as others have said, after watching the U-20 World Cup, the youth national team program needs serious reform as well otherwise they're just going to be spinning their wheels like the men's program. The era of acquiring big athletic girls for kick and hoof is over. If we don't modernize our women's game soon we will be marginalized for generations. Just because we essentially invented women's soccer doesn't entitle us to always be at the forefront. Just ask England...


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## Justafan (Dec 2, 2016)

Worst part is that the US still has a punchers chance and if they win that might be even worse as they may think nothing is wrong.


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## mo fields (Dec 3, 2016)

Justafan said:


> Worst part is that the US still has a punchers chance and if they win that might be even worse as they may think nothing is wrong.


That one way show is finally over---- 30 to 1 in shots and complete domination. Japan is so more advanced. USA is too concerned with size and strength of players and should be skill and speed!!!!!!


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## Zerodenero (Dec 3, 2016)

mo fields said:


> That one way show is finally over---- 30 to 1 in shots and complete domination. Japan is so more advanced. USA is too concerned with size and strength of players and should be skill and speed!!!!!!


So After reading this thread About our best not cutting it internationally. I had to watch what the hoo-haa was all about.....OMG, it's all true. Our 20's vs Japan felt like I was watching an antiquated, bayonette carrying, In-line firing civil war era squad trying to fight against an 11-woman samurai-ninja ambush. Japan was sooo ....precise ,clean, dementional, dynamic and united. We...well, were NOT.

If that is what our "best" has to offer, we are undoubtedly not progressing at the same rate the rest of the world is.

The real question I have is, how the hell do the powers that be not see or immediately do something about it?


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 3, 2016)

Zerodenero said:


> So After reading this thread About our best not cutting it internationally. I had to watch what the hoo-haa was all about.....OMG, it's all true. Our 20's vs Japan felt like I was watching an antiquated, bayonette carrying, In-line firing civil war era squad trying to fight against an 11-woman samurai-ninja ambush. Japan was sooo ....precise ,clean, dementional, dynamic and united. We...well, were NOT.
> 
> If that is what our "best" has to offer, we are undoubtedly not progressing at the same rate the rest of the world is.
> 
> The real question I have is, how the hell do the powers that be not see or immediately do something about it?


We played defense the whole game.  We had 3 total shots and zero on goal.  We didn't even have a legitimate chance to score.  With the two players up top that we had that is a serious concern.  Maybe Pugh and Sanchez should have been in the midfield.  They were the only ones that could hold possession against Japan.  How do we get outshot 29-3?


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## NoGoal (Dec 3, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> We played defense the whole game.  We had 3 total shots and zero on goal.  We didn't even have a legitimate chance to score.  With the two players up top that we had that is a serious concern.  Maybe Pugh and Sanchez should have been in the midfield.  They were the only ones that could hold possession against Japan.  How do we get outshot 29-3?


IMO, it's obvious what our YNT needs are the following.

1.  Improved team chemistry by living and playing together.  Solution, fully subsidized YNT year round residency program.

2. Select, implement, and further develop playmaking midfielders.  Solution, evaluate and identify quick midfielders with great vision and skill.

3. Learn to play through the midfielders and stop with parking the bus. Solution overhaul the YNT head coaches.

4. Learn to defend by holding possession instead of always high pressuring.  Solution change the playing philosophy.


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## outside! (Dec 3, 2016)

It would be nice if they also picked actual defenders for defense. Oh, and players that can complete a pass.


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## soccerobserver (Dec 3, 2016)

I just finished watching the replay of USA vs Japan. So glad to see the team playing beautiful soccer win. The Japan team reminded me of the Magic Johnson era Lakers or the Jordan led Bulls with their beautiful triangle and in contrast the US team made me visualize the Kobe era Lakers with no teamwork just a selfish individuals throwing up  dumb shots and dumb passes with no regards to teammates. I can only assume that the US soccer management believe in literally mindless kick ball for this to occur.


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## soccerobserver (Dec 3, 2016)

I have two questions, were those really our county's best forwards??? And do they actually coach the wing defenders to automatically blast the ball a mile up field to the opponent???


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## meaningless (Dec 4, 2016)

Wow! That was a complete route! JE and the entire US coaching staff must be embarrassed. US packed the box to keep the score close but the game itself never was. 
The poor play of the midfield continues to come up. I can tell you for sure we have players that can posses, distribute, and dictate from the middle 3rd of the field but that isn't what they are being instructed to doing. Coaching is failing them miserably and the US youth system needs an overhaul.


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## Justafan (Dec 4, 2016)

NoGoal said:


> IMO, it's obvious what our YNT needs are the following.
> 
> 1.  Improved team chemistry by living and playing together.  Solution, fully subsidized YNT year round residency program.
> 
> ...



It can be done, and relatively quickly.  If you look at Mexico, who outplayed the US for 83 minutes, and they had 9 Mexican-American girls who grew up in the same club/university system as all of the US players.  They were able to play nice soccer after a couple of camps.  What the hell was the USA doing at their camps?


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## NoGoal (Dec 4, 2016)

Justafan said:


> It can be done, and relatively quickly.  If you look at Mexico, who outplayed the US for 83 minutes, and they had 9 Mexican-American girls who grew up in the same club/university system as all of the US players.  They were able to play nice soccer after a couple of camps.  What the hell was the USA doing at their camps?


My guess the beep test, hahahaha!


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## Sunil Illuminati (Dec 4, 2016)

I can't imagine anyone who watches youth/college soccer in the US is really suprised by the performances. US Soccer on the Womens side is in even more of a dire situation than the Men's side, and it's only because the rest of the World didn't really care in the past that they were able to ride the wave of victory based off athleticism and numbers. The whole program needs an overhaul. I fear the DA will have minimum impact...unless those few coaches that are actually able to develop players and teams, are presented with a pathway to coach themselves in the USYNT program, Is there anyone in that group of coaches who isn't connected to JE in some way? We need to stop the good old boys/girls network, identify those who can do it and give them an opportunity to revamp the game. Having good athletes is a plus, but games at the top level are not won on a teams ability to outrun an opponent. Also look at some of the coaches who scout for the youth national team player pools. Their own teams are horrible! They wouldn't know a good player if Carli Lloyd came round for dinner, let alone identifying a teenager with the ability to evolve in 5-6 years time. I predict a period of 5-10 years where we will effectively become an 'also ran' at the World Level. I hope I'm wrong.


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## soccerobserver (Dec 5, 2016)

Here is the video highlight summary of the Japan vs US U20 game :


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## socalkdg (Dec 6, 2016)

Lets stop pretending though that the international clubs don't have athletes.  Japan and Korea had girls just as fast, physical, and aggressive as the US and France does.  They win more 50/50 balls, are just as fast, and just as strong now.  Combined with their strong technique, these two teams were the class of the tourney.  I actually felt the best athletes weren't on the field for the US.  

While watching the Mexico / USA game, I thought I heard it mentioned that 10-15 girls from the Mexico team play college ball in the U.S.  If they can play as a team with their top girls, why can't the US do the same?  Work with the colleges, have the girls red-shirt a year during world cup, and form the best team possible and play together as long as possible.  

Was the keeper from Rutgers the best keeper the US had for their U20 team?   While good from the line, she looked extremely uncomfortable moving around the box.  This seemed to carry over to many positions.  Are the best players actually on the U20 team?   I know many here watch a lot of college soccer.   Thoughts?


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 6, 2016)

socalkdg said:


> Lets stop pretending though that the international clubs don't have athletes.  Japan and Korea had girls just as fast, physical, and aggressive as the US and France does.  They win more 50/50 balls, are just as fast, and just as strong now.  Combined with their strong technique, these two teams were the class of the tourney.  I actually felt the best athletes weren't on the field for the US.
> 
> While watching the Mexico / USA game, I thought I heard it mentioned that 10-15 girls from the Mexico team play college ball in the U.S.  If they can play as a team with their top girls, why can't the US do the same?  Work with the colleges, have the girls red-shirt a year during world cup, and form the best team possible and play together as long as possible.
> 
> Was the keeper from Rutgers the best keeper the US had for their U20 team?   While good from the line, she looked extremely uncomfortable moving around the box.  This seemed to carry over to many positions.  Are the best players actually on the U20 team?   I know many here watch a lot of college soccer.   Thoughts?


Are you asking were these the best '96 birth year and younger players or were they the best players.  The U20 WWC has a birth year cutoff date of 1-1-96.  By the way the Mexican, Canadian and Ghanian players didn't have to redshirt and lose a year of college.  You do the math on that.  Duke and Stanford cost $72k a year.  Even with a 3/4 scholarship that is $18k that the family has to pick up.  Multiply that by 4 (and the 5th year typically doesn't include as much money.  They might get less their 5th year) and you understand why some of the best players pulled themselves out of contention.  Not to mention it is highly doubtful that their weren't better players than Otto and Fox out there.


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 6, 2016)

https://hatriksoccer.wordpress.com/2016/12/04/uswnt-u20s/


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## socalkdg (Dec 7, 2016)

Completely agree with that article.   From just watching the game it seemed 80% of the time USA would lose throw in, free kicks, and goal kicks, the article seems to confirm that.  Similar to hockey if you lose 80% of the face offs, good luck in the game.   

Sounds like you are saying the best girls aren't joining these teams, and much of it has to do with money.   It would seem like having the national team work with the colleges, providing a partial scholarship to the girls that do play with the team would be the smart play.  The colleges get better trained players, the players get a huge experience and extra training without being hit in the pocketbook, and the national team gets better players.  Win/Win/Win.


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 7, 2016)

socalkdg said:


> Completely agree with that article.   From just watching the game it seemed 80% of the time USA would lose throw in, free kicks, and goal kicks, the article seems to confirm that.  Similar to hockey if you lose 80% of the face offs, good luck in the game.
> 
> Sounds like you are saying the best girls aren't joining these teams, and much of it has to do with money.   It would seem like having the national team work with the colleges, providing a partial scholarship to the girls that do play with the team would be the smart play.  The colleges get better trained players, the players get a huge experience and extra training without being hit in the pocketbook, and the national team gets better players.  Win/Win/Win.


I agree with you.  Instead of using the money on another administrator or buying out a contract they can provide money for the girls as an incentive to play.  At the end of the day girls soccer isn't about getting rich.  It's about getting a great education and having a great experience representing your country.  I know for a fact at least 4 players that would have made the U20 team (one was on the last cycle's U20 team when she was in high school) chose not to.  They happened to go to expensive private universities and from my conversations with the coaches a couple of years back they rarely give out full rides.  As most of us know by now girls soccer isn't football or basketball, it isn't even guys soccer where there is an opportunity to make an extremely good living playing pro.  On the girls side it is a labor of love and we will lose our ability to compete with the top countries in the world that are inhibited by amateurism (and that send a lot of their players to US colleges) if we don't take care of our minor league (NCAA soccer).


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## Mystery Train (Dec 7, 2016)

Not justifying US Soccer's plan (or lack thereof) but . . .

Professional leagues (or in this case, a national team) are only as good as the players produced by their "farm" systems.  The farm system for US Soccer is our youth club scene.  Youth club soccer is not designed with the purpose of developing talent for the long haul.  They are designed to make money by attracting parents by winning lots of games for a very short period of time (and I don't see the DA system changing that because they're using the same organizations).  Winning games with 11 years olds requires an entirely different skill set than winning with 28 year olds.  When it comes to women's soccer, there is no professional league for them to aspire to, and so the only real goal for the most talented female players is to get into college, which requires them to win a lot of games as 11-16 year olds to get into a position to be recruited.  So they (and their parents and coaches) do what it takes to accomplish that goal.  But that goal (getting into college) has nothing to do with the United States being able to field a team with the technical chops to beat a team like Japan.  It is a cultural thing.  Our culture uses youth soccer as a means to a completely different end.  In other cultures, playing soccer IS the end.  Unless that changes, we'll always wonder why we lose to smaller countries, poorer countries, or countries with less resources.  It's not about athletes.  There is a reason the SEC dominates college football and NFL rosters.  It's not because southern players are more gifted or talented.  It's the culture.


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 7, 2016)

Mystery Train said:


> Not justifying US Soccer's plan (or lack thereof) but . . .
> 
> Professional leagues (or in this case, a national team) are only as good as the players produced by their "farm" systems.  The farm system for US Soccer is our youth club scene.  Youth club soccer is not designed with the purpose of developing talent for the long haul.  They are designed to make money by attracting parents by winning lots of games for a very short period of time (and I don't see the DA system changing that because they're using the same organizations).  Winning games with 11 years olds requires an entirely different skill set than winning with 28 year olds.  When it comes to women's soccer, there is no professional league for them to aspire to, and so the only real goal for the most talented female players is to get into college, which requires them to win a lot of games as 11-16 year olds to get into a position to be recruited.  So they (and their parents and coaches) do what it takes to accomplish that goal.  But that goal (getting into college) has nothing to do with the United States being able to field a team with the technical chops to beat a team like Japan.  It is a cultural thing.  Our culture uses youth soccer as a means to a completely different end.  In other cultures, playing soccer IS the end.  Unless that changes, we'll always wonder why we lose to smaller countries, poorer countries, or countries with less resources.  It's not about athletes.  There is a reason the SEC dominates college football and NFL rosters.  It's not because southern players are more gifted or talented.  It's the culture.



You had me until the last two sentences.  I have been to Nebraska, Ann Arbor and BYU on gameday.  Trust me they are as intensely fanatical about their football as they are in the heart of Tennessee or Alabama.  NFL rosters are 18% SEC players, 14% ACC players, 13% Big Ten and 13% Pac 12 players.  While the SEC has some intense stadiums to play in (Tennessee and Texas A&M spring to mind as some crazy places to play that I have been to) statistically speaking, with them having 15 member schools they are only slightly ahead of some of those conferences in terms of player numbers.  Regardless, not really an equivalent situation.  Football gets the best athletes and also has the carrot dangled of a 100% paid education AND the potential of millions of dollars.  Not even the best female soccer player ever makes (or made) comparable money over her career to a starting NFL player that stays in the league for 4-5 years.

I agree that it is a cultural thing but more of it has to do with our soccer coaches cultural background and incentives.  The coach of the US women's national team makes abut $215k a year.  That is below the average of a Power 5 schools assistant (non-coordinator) football coach.  Not sure what the highest paid women's college coach receives but I am pretty certain that it would be on the average to low side of a football assistant coach.  That and the intense pressure to deliver wins at all coasts is the real issue.  If the coaches were evaluated on style of play or had a differing incentives things might change.  I don't expect it to happen unfortunately.


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## soccerobserver (Dec 7, 2016)

Is it me or did the relative skill set for the U20's just suddenly get a lot worse versus Japan, PRK and France etc? Seemed like USWNT was on Top of the World only what 2 years ago ???

Please somebody tell me the "real" U20 team was On Holiday and that therefore this does not forshadow the future!


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## NoGoal (Dec 7, 2016)

soccerobserver said:


> Is it me or did the relative skill set for the U20's just suddenly get a lot worse versus Japan, PRK and France etc? Seemed like USWNT was on Top of the World only what 2 years ago ???
> 
> Please somebody tell me the "real" U20 team was On Holiday and that therefore this does not forshadow the future!


A friend told me, Japanese trained youth players must be able to juggle the ball 1000 consecutive times without messing up.  I wonder how many of the U20s can do that.


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 7, 2016)

soccerobserver said:


> Is it me or did the relative skill set for the U20's just suddenly get a lot worse versus Japan, PRK and France etc? Seemed like USWNT was on Top of the World only what 2 years ago ???
> 
> Please somebody tell me the "real" U20 team was On Holiday and that therefore this does not forshadow the future!


The US WNT is still ranked #1 in the world by FIFA.


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 7, 2016)

NoGoal said:


> A friend told me, Japanese trained youth players must be able to juggle the ball 1000 consecutive times without messing up.  I wonder how many of the U20s can do that.


That my friend is the difference between them and us and the reason they can absolutely torture a team in the final third.


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## NoGoal (Dec 7, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> The US WNT is still ranked #1 in the world by FIFA.


and I assume NOT many of the U17 and U20 WC YNT rostered players will ever get a call up to the Sr level, besides Mallory and Ashley (already called into a Sr camp).


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 7, 2016)

Interesting news!!  Mexico might become a destination for US women's soccer players!!

view-source:https://twitter.com/LIGABancomerMX/status/805873060700160001


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## Mystery Train (Dec 7, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> You had me until the last two sentences.  I have been to Nebraska, Ann Arbor and BYU on gameday.  Trust me they are as intensely fanatical about their football as they are in the heart of Tennessee or Alabama.  NFL rosters are 18% SEC players, 14% ACC players, 13% Big Ten and 13% Pac 12 players.  While the SEC has some intense stadiums to play in (Tennessee and Texas A&M spring to mind as some crazy places to play that I have been to) statistically speaking, with them having 15 member schools they are only slightly ahead of some of those conferences in terms of player numbers.  Regardless, not really an equivalent situation.  Football gets the best athletes and also has the carrot dangled of a 100% paid education AND the potential of millions of dollars.  Not even the best female soccer player ever makes (or made) comparable money over her career to a starting NFL player that stays in the league for 4-5 years.
> 
> I agree that it is a cultural thing but more of it has to do with our soccer coaches cultural background and incentives.  The coach of the US women's national team makes abut $215k a year.  That is below the average of a Power 5 schools assistant (non-coordinator) football coach.  Not sure what the highest paid women's college coach receives but I am pretty certain that it would be on the average to low side of a football assistant coach.  That and the intense pressure to deliver wins at all coasts is the real issue.  If the coaches were evaluated on style of play or had a differing incentives things might change.  I don't expect it to happen unfortunately.


Good point about the coaching culture and pay.  "The intense pressure to deliver wins at all costs is the real issue."  This I could not agree with more wholeheartedly, from the top of the US game down to the bottom.  And you are right that I probably shouldn't compare football because it undercuts the real point I was trying to make, which is that college is the end game for US girls in soccer, rather than becoming a professional international player.

P.S.  We'll have to start a college football thread to debate my SEC comment.  My point about NFL rosters has to do with where those players grew up (south).  Lots of those elite Big 10 and ACC players are from Texas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, etc.   I grew up in Dixie, and say with all due respect, unless you've lived there, you can't appreciate just how much perspective they lack with regards to football.  There are some great places (which you mentioned) that do match SEC Saturdays for passion, but in the South, it is a 7-day a week religion to the point of absurdity.  No comparison.


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## socalkdg (Dec 7, 2016)

NoGoal said:


> A friend told me, Japanese trained youth players must be able to juggle the ball 1000 consecutive times without messing up.  I wonder how many of the U20s can do that.


Juggling can make a big difference, even with beginners.  This past fall I had 11 year old girls that could juggle once or twice, and they have improved to 5-6 times by end of season.  Tough with only 3 hour a week in a AYSO league, but still happy with their progress. Noticed that some of the girls used their knees to deflect the ball in the right direction, plus were able to control bouncing balls a bit better during.  It does help with first touch as well.   

I was amazed at the poor first touches by the US girls.  I'll just take a first touch in the direction that you want to make a play as opposed to a touching it back towards the defender that is charging.  So many bad first touches, lack of aggression on 50/50 balls, and poor strategy by the coaches.   So they bunkered.  OK, fine.  Why they didn't keep Pugh and Sanchez up high while bunkering with the other 8 girls I'll never understand.  Even when they got a steal or turnover, there was no one available to counter attack as they were helping on defense.  The few times those two did get a chance, they did make some things happen, even when they didn't score.


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 7, 2016)

Mystery Train said:


> Good point about the coaching culture and pay.  "The intense pressure to deliver wins at all costs is the real issue."  This I could not agree with more wholeheartedly, from the top of the US game down to the bottom.  And you are right that I probably shouldn't compare football because it undercuts the real point I was trying to make, which is that college is the end game for US girls in soccer, rather than becoming a professional international player.
> 
> P.S.  We'll have to start a college football thread to debate my SEC comment.  My point about NFL rosters has to do with where those players grew up (south).  Lots of those elite Big 10 and ACC players are from Texas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, etc.   I grew up in Dixie, and say with all due respect, unless you've lived there, you can't appreciate just how much perspective they lack with regards to football.  There are some great places (which you mentioned) that do match SEC Saturdays for passion, but in the South, it is a 7-day a week religion to the point of absurdity.  No comparison.


I was actually born in the South and spent waaaaay too many summers there.  I agree nothing like Southern sweet tea and the fans knowledge of their local football teams (college, pro and high school) is pretty much unmatched (I have seen old high school football tapes with 30,000+ fans for a regular non-championship game!).  Plenty of those SEC players are from outside of the South though but your point is well taken about the players.  Unfortunately some of them see it as their only way out of Dixie so the focus is there.

Back to soccer, I agree that the end goal isn't to be an international professional.  Most of our pro players retire after 3-5 years so that they can "get a real job."  It is sad but true that for us it is about college.  I am okay with that and still think that we can look good competing on an international level AND play to win.  It's all about the coaches.  Given the right incentive I think that something can be done.


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## outside! (Dec 7, 2016)

I don't understand why we can't develop our own, successful soccer culture. We are not Europe. We have sports in schools. Instead of treating that as a negative, why can't we maximize the positive sides of that. It would help if club, high school and college soccer could agree on some unifying themes with regards to development. College players are adults and should play FIFA laws of the game so that they can be prepared for the international game. High Schools should be encouraged to provide full width fields and 3 ref crews to minimize injuries. High school soccer is similar in many ways to World Cup soccer and should be able to offer some developmental opportunities. Club soccer should scale back their seasons a bit, and club tournaments with multiple games in one weekend should go away, especially for the youngers.


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## pulguita (Dec 7, 2016)

outside! said:


> I don't understand why we can't develop our own, successful soccer culture. We are not Europe. We have sports in schools. Instead of treating that as a negative, why can't we maximize the positive sides of that. It would help if club, high school and college soccer could agree on some unifying themes with regards to development. College players are adults and should play FIFA laws of the game so that they can be prepared for the international game. High Schools should be encouraged to provide full width fields and 3 ref crews to minimize injuries. High school soccer is similar in many ways to World Cup soccer and should be able to offer some developmental opportunities. Club soccer should scale back their seasons a bit, and club tournaments with multiple games in one weekend should go away, especially for the youngers.


"We are not Europe."  I think those are some of the most powerful words.  We are not and that is a major problem, here's why.  We are the US.  Everyone has been taught that you make it by hard work, by your own bootstraps.  You know "I".  Soccer is a collective sport - a socialist one if you will. Europe definitely has that advantage.   If you play collectively, everyone does their part you will be successful.  The achievement and accolades will come.  We don't teach that here.  Maybe the 1980 US hockey team had it but our soccer culture certainly does not.  It was not more plainly to see than in this U20 WC.  Give it to the "stars" and they will do it.  Not even Messi can do it for Argentina or Barcelona for that matter by himself.  There are maestro's and then there are the people that carry the piano and tune the piano.  All are key members.  We don't get that.  Soccer is a 5 v 5 game.  Not a 1v1 game.  Until we learn that - forget it.


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 8, 2016)

Here is an interesting perspective:

http://www.soccerwire.com/blog-posts/whats-the-real-problem-american-soccer-and-a-culture-of-mastery/#at_pco=cod-1.0&at_si=5849a39ba67a00c6&at_ab=per-2&at_pos=2&at_tot=8


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## outside! (Dec 8, 2016)

Pulquita,
While I agree that teamwork is important, to say that it is not part of US culture is just BS. There are too many examples in our history of teamwork winning the day. Examples like WW2 for instance, on the day after a date which will live forever in infamy.

I was fortunate to meet one Pearl Harbor survivor and hear his story. It is amazing how brave those people were. RIP Earl


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## Eusebio (Dec 8, 2016)

I actually think it's the complete opposite.

We (Americans) are generally a capitalist and individualist society. Europe on the whole is generally more socialist. But the roles seem to be reversed when it comes to sports. Our popular sports are very much team focused. Even our superstars are ultimately defined by team success (winning records, championships, and etc). Overall we are about "winning".  Outstanding individual performances are great, but only if they are a "winner", which requires a team effort.

And there's nothing wrong with this attitude/phiolosphy. Even in Europe when you see this applied to soccer at the highest levels (ie. Barca) it can make for some beautiful soccer.

But Barca is the end-product after all the individual foundation has been properly made. The problem with US Soccer is that we take the "Winning/Team" all the way to the younger age groups. How many times has a U-Little coach put Little Billy at defender for the entire season because even though Little Billy could be a great midfielder, the coach put him permanently at defense for the sake of winning games. Conversely you see under-sized players put on the bench or big players not challenged enough, again all for the sake of winning games.

We have a generation of under-developed players precisely because team victories/trophies are over-emphasized at the younger ages instead of individual development and growth. Our culture's obsession with team victories/trophies even with pre-school age kids and the lack of marketplace incentives for individual development pretty much keeps  us in a permanent state of mediocrity

The problem with our youth national team player isn't that they are too selfish and don't want to pass. The problem is too many of them can't even make accurate passes or receive passes under pressure. Or many cases they don't even see the pass. This is because we systematically eradicate almost all the technical and intelligent players at the young ages and keep pushing the big aggressive players who may or may not understand the subtleties of the game for the sake of again....winning games. This was fine we were the only women's game in town but now many other countries have caught up and are using the training philosophies from the men's game and applying it to their women's programs.

It's great seeing teamwork and players working toward a common goal. It's one of the reasons why the World Cup is so fun to watch. Players not playing for contracts but for team and national pride and glory. But ultimately soccer is a skilled sport. At the highest levels all the teamwork in the world isn't going to help if half the roster can't pass out of pressure or doesn't possess the game I.Q. to properly maintain possession off throw-ins.


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## chiefs (Dec 9, 2016)

Eusebio said:


> I actually think it's the complete opposite.
> 
> We (Americans) are generally a capitalist and individualist society. Europe on the whole is generally more socialist. But the roles seem to be reversed when it comes to sports. Our popular sports are very much team focused. Even our superstars are ultimately defined by team success (winning records, championships, and etc). Overall we are about "winning".  Outstanding individual performances are great, but only if they are a "winner", which requires a team effort.
> 
> ...


Agree with what was said; the big aggresive player is the easy way out from youth to YNT.  only a few Coaches/Parents dont want to take the time to develop a team for variety of reasons (both the coach/parent do not have the patience to wait it out). The selection process from youth (ODP) to U20 YNT is atrocious, and even if they do have the right players, the coaches do not put the player in a position to succeed. Culturally speaking, I think US parents soccer expectations are lower than the rest of the world, which plays in this  part as well.


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## bruinblue14 (Dec 9, 2016)

Just like how some scouts/coaches seem to think it's easy to convert a forward to a defender, they also seem to think that just anybody can play as a midfielder. Doing so requires a really special skill set, imho, and some kids have a natural, equally valuable talent for it. It was apparent in this recent World Cup that you can have some of the best forwards in the world but without a strong midfield it doesn't matter. Of course I am biased because my kid is a midfielder. Makes me sad that my kid may never get a look because she's not up top and honestly has no desire to play up top.


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 14, 2016)

bruinblue14 said:


> Just like how some scouts/coaches seem to think it's easy to convert a forward to a defender, they also seem to think that just anybody can play as a midfielder. Doing so requires a really special skill set, imho, and some kids have a natural, equally valuable talent for it. It was apparent in this recent World Cup that you can have some of the best forwards in the world but without a strong midfield it doesn't matter. Of course I am biased because my kid is a midfielder. Makes me sad that my kid may never get a look because she's not up top and honestly has no desire to play up top.


It is unfortunate too.  The best two of the best 3 midfielders that I saw all season are pretty petite and don't fit the mold of the typical US midfielder.  Both extremely skillful and only 5'4.  It worked out for them though so don't be discouraged.  One starts for her country's full national team and the other had been called into several full US WNT camps.  A good player will get their due eventually.  The great thing about college is that a good coach will always be able to use a great player.  And a great player will play great which will eventually be recognized if they persevere.


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