# ECNL expansion 2021-2022



## Surf Zombie

Probably a couple months from the expansion hysteria heating up again, but was curious what’s the word in CA. 

I’m in the northeast and the conference got split this year into New England (9 teams) and North Atlantic (9 teams) so there are a lot of rumors about potentially expanding to 10 & 10. 

I’ve got to imagine the clubs who have teams in the ECRL this year will get the first look.


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## lafalafa

Not sure you will see much expansion from Socal, maybe a club here or there.  Pretty much all the bigger ones are already in. 

Perhaps some will get girls or boys teams in ECNL in addition to ECRL.  Very few just in ECRL and not ECNL by choice.


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## futboldad1

lafalafa said:


> Not sure you will see much expansion from Socal, maybe a club here or there.  Pretty much all the bigger ones are already in.
> 
> Perhaps some will get girls or boys teams in ECNL in addition to ECRL.  Very few just in ECRL and not ECNL by choice.


You are correct in saying there will not be much expansion in SoCal..... but to be clear NOBODY is in just ECRL and not ECNL by their own choice..... there are currently 12 socal ECNL clubs and with AZ the SW conference is 14 teams total.......my prediction: Beach and Legends will be accepted into ECNL and the SW will split into two equal conferences of 8 teams each.....this is all in good fun but let me state that my predictions this past spring were pretty darn accurate so I would make sure you have good sources before telling me I’m wrong.....


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## Glitterhater

Curious if Placer will ever get it for the girls, since they lost DA.


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## MrCruett

Glitterhater said:


> Curious if Placer will ever get it for the girls, since they lost DA.


Doubtful


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## SoccerFan4Life

futboldad1 said:


> You are correct in saying there will not be much expansion in SoCal..... but to be clear NOBODY is in just ECRL and not ECNL by their own choice..... there are currently 12 socal ECNL clubs and with AZ the SW conference is 14 teams total.......my prediction: Beach and Legends will be accepted into ECNL and the SW will split into two equal conferences of 8 teams each.....this is all in good fun but let me state that my predictions this past spring were pretty darn accurate so I would make sure you have good sources before telling me I’m wrong.....


I am surprised that there wouldn’t be consolidation. The economy is going to impacta a lot of families and ECXL is not cheap.


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## Giesbock

I’d be curious to hear what makes you predict that Beach and Legends will be invited to join ECNL?  Name, reputation, ranked players on roster, coaches’ relationships to Laver, game performance this season??


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## futboldad1

Giesbock said:


> I’d be curious to hear what makes you predict that Beach and Legends will be invited to join ECNL?  Name, reputation, ranked players on roster, coaches’ relationships to Laver, game performance this season??


My birdie says reputation/name, previous on field success and commitment to ECRL would be the three reasons.... I also think they are the only two clubs not currently in ECNL in SoCal that would add to the league's quality.... I do not think either would come in and dominate, but they would help make the league even stronger than it is

hopefully in the spring ECRL will get playing and their will teams will stand out..... one further hint is that Beach u16 were invited to cover for a dropped team at the recent ECNL Showcase and, while they weren't scheduled versus top teams, they performed well winning three close games.....several other ECRL teams also played this event but Beach were the only club who doesn't have ECNL teams.....


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## Surf Zombie

The two big fish left on the east coast are Top Hat & FC Virginia. Both would strengthen ECNL and be big losses for GA, but both are in markets with several other ECNL teams and Top Hat has a well documented history of strife with the ECNL, so it will certainly be interesting to see what happens with those two clubs.


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## crush

futboldad1 said:


> My birdie says reputation/name, previous on field success and commitment to ECRL would be the three reasons.... I also think they are the only two clubs not currently in ECNL in SoCal that would add to the league's quality.... I do not think either would come in and dominate, but they would help make the league even stronger than it is
> 
> hopefully in the spring ECRL will get playing and their will teams will stand out..... one further hint is that Beach u16 were invited to cover for a dropped team at the recent ECNL Showcase and, while they weren't scheduled versus top teams, they performed well winning three close games.....several other ECRL teams also played this event but Beach were the only club who doesn't have ECNL teams.....


Silver Lakes helps Legends as well.  Beach is always good so both of those clubs need to be invited, like 4 years ago,  Throw in the Hat and you just picked up three of the best clubs in the country.


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## lafalafa

crush said:


> Silver Lakes helps Legends as well.  Beach is always good so both of those clubs need to be invited, like 4 years ago,  Throw in the Hat and you just picked up three of the best clubs in the country.


Getting into Ecnl is a bit like facing the tribal council on survivor. Need  alliances and the votes to get in otherwise your torch is snuffed out for another season.  Will those clubs muster another votes and alliances to get in?    They well could be deserving but takes more than that to get voted in.


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## MrCruett

In Norcal I can see ECNL expanding the geographic boundary. For example a team from Clovis and a team from Reno. Sort of like building a bridge to Utah and Socal. The Bay area and Sac region IMO are at the right number of clubs.


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## crush

lafalafa said:


> Getting into Ecnl is a bit like facing the tribal council on survivor. Need  alliances and the votes to get in otherwise your torch is snuffed out for another season.  Will those clubs muster another votes and alliances to get in?    They well could be deserving but takes more than that to get voted in.


I had an old pal high up in the coaching ranks.  He said most of the Docs all get along.  Go out for drinks and talk about what dad is nuts and who stay away from.  These "tribal leaders" controlled "The List" as well so it made the "Survivor Socal Soccer Game" super hard to play.  They also know all the top coaches so do your best to, STFU!!!!  Amazing the customers put up with all this BS for so long.  One Doc, who I thought i had the upper hand on in the game, was also interviewing for same job with the other tribal leader.  It's what I call, "The good ole boys club."  I could go on and on but I wont.


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## SoccerFan4Life

lafalafa said:


> Getting into Ecnl is a bit like facing the tribal council on survivor. Need  alliances and the votes to get in otherwise your torch is snuffed out for another season.  Will those clubs muster another votes and alliances to get in?    They well could be deserving but takes more than that to get voted in.


It’s like the Mafia, welcome to the ECNL family.  Now go collect those $4k dues and make a tons of money on empty promises.  ECRL is even a bigger scam.


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## crush

SoccerFan4Life said:


> It’s like the Mafia, welcome to the ECNL family.  Now go collect those $4k dues and make a tons of money on empty promises.  ECRL is even a bigger scam.


How many Families in charge in Socal now?  I swear, if you dont obey and STFU, you will be in a world of hurt.  I had no idea how powerful some of these families were.  Lot's of compromising going on if you know what I mean.  If you see some hanky panky going on too and report it, oh well, just one SOL parent with a crazy ass Doc with all the power.  God forbid you ask a question about one's behavior around 13 year old girls.


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## Desert Hound

lafalafa said:


> Getting into Ecnl is a bit like facing the tribal council on survivor. Need  alliances and the votes to get in otherwise your torch is snuffed out for another season.  Will those clubs muster another votes and alliances to get in?    They well could be deserving but takes more than that to get voted in.


I think the reason they get in is that by bringing them, ECNL hurts SW GA a LOT. And that helps all the So Cal ECNL clubs.


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## Surf Zombie

Desert Hound said:


> I think the reason they get in is that by bringing them, ECNL hurts SW GA a LOT. And that helps all the So Cal ECNL clubs.


I wonder how much hurting GA, as opposed to other considerations, will factor in when ECNL is making expansion decisions? I assume it will depend upon whether ECNL considers GA a threat, either nationally or in certain markets.

For example plucking a club like Top Hat would clearly hurt GA, but is adding a smaller name club in someplace like the midwest where travel isn’t great a bigger consideration?


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## Desert Hound

Surf Zombie said:


> I wonder how much hurting GA, as opposed to other considerations, will factor in when ECNL is making expansion decisions? I assume it will depend upon whether ECNL considers GA a threat, either nationally or in certain markets.
> 
> For example plucking a club like Top Hat would clearly hurt GA, but is adding a smaller name club in someplace like the midwest where travel isn’t great a bigger consideration?


I think there is a couple of areas where ECNL can pick off a couple of top clubs and relegate GA to a 2nd tier. They also do as you say need to pick up some clubs in areas where travel sucks to make it work for clubs in those areas.


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## Gosocal

Desert Hound said:


> I think the reason they get in is that by bringing them, ECNL hurts SW GA a LOT. And that helps all the So Cal ECNL clubs.


GA already is hurt from the very beginning.... Legends and Beach obviously have their 2nd teams in GA....now if the two AZ GA clubs were to move to ecnl, that would really hurt.


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## Desert Hound

Gosocal said:


> GA already is hurt from the very beginning.... Legends and Beach obviously have their 2nd teams in GA....now if the two AZ GA clubs were to move to ecnl, that would really hurt.


Well the amazing/sad thing is we are just a few months away from when ECNL usually starts announcing changes/additions. So far not an exciting season, though from an AZ perspective we have gotten in a lot of games.


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## Calikid

What about West Coast and Pateadores to ECNL? Both have former DA teams that would be very competitive in ECNL


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## Kicker4Life

Calikid said:


> What about West Coast and Pateadores to ECNL? Both have former DA teams that would be very competitive in ECNL


And both are in Areas with ECNL programs already in place. Pat’s chose to go GA which may hurt their chances. But who knows?


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## lafalafa

Calikid said:


> What about West Coast and Pateadores to ECNL? Both have former DA teams that would be very competitive in ECNL


Both clubs have Boys already in ECNL & RL.

Won't be a stretch to see them go all in and have girls teams in the near future since they both are in ECRL already.


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## GT45

What motivation would ECNL have to add Pats and West Coast? Neither club adds anything other than dilution to ECNL. There are already ECNL clubs in their area. Both of these clubs were in the bottom half of DA standings too.


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## Kicker4Life

Kicker4Life said:


> And both are in Areas with ECNL programs already in place. Pat’s chose to go GA which may hurt their chances. But who knows?


Forgot PAT’s is kind of straddling both ECRL and GA.


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## Desert Hound

GT45 said:


> What motivation would ECNL have to add Pats and West Coast? Neither club adds anything other than dilution to ECNL. There are already ECNL clubs in their area. Both of these clubs were in the bottom half of DA standings too.


To cut GA off at the knees in the SW. 

Remember Legends and Beach also have boys ECNL. 

So pick them up as well and the GA loses 4 clubs.


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## futboldad1

Desert Hound said:


> To cut GA off at the knees in the SW.
> 
> Remember Legends and Beach also have boys ECNL.
> 
> So pick them up as well and the GA loses 4 clubs.


GA is already cut off at the knees in Cali....... this will become even more apparent once we get a proper season...... both the Beach and Legends top teams all play ECRL...... I am not trying to be an ass but Pats and WC are weak on the girls side..... look at results from 2019-20..... and that was before all the defections to the ECNL clubs..... anyways my point is that there is very little chance that the ECNL adds more than two clubs in the SW..... and only Beach and Legends stack up....... like @GT45 says the other clubs are just dilution...... for my credibility check my posts correctly predicting the collapse of the DA and the addition of only SD Surf and one other club from last spring weeks before any of it went down..... keep your friends close and your coach contacts closer lol


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## GT45

Desert Hound said:


> To cut GA off at the knees in the SW.
> 
> Remember Legends and Beach also have boys ECNL.
> 
> So pick them up as well and the GA loses 4 clubs.


Legends and Beach add value to ECNL. The other two have no sway. GA would just be solidified as a B league. No one is going to change their opinion on GA whether Pats and West Coast are in it or not. If you add these four, just call it SCDSL. That is what it will turn into. If ECNL is serious about maintaining its status as elite, everyone cannot be a member. GA is no threat right now. If US Soccer could not sustain a challenge to ECNL for more than a few years, no one else is going to.


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## Willie

futboldad1 said:


> GA is already cut off at the knees in Cali....... this will become even more apparent once we get a proper season...... both the Beach and Legends top teams all play ECRL...... I am not trying to be an ass but Pats and WC are weak on the girls side..... look at results from 2019-20..... and that was before all the defections to the ECNL clubs..... anyways my point is that there is very little chance that the ECNL adds more than two clubs in the SW..... and only Beach and Legends stack up....... like @GT45 says the other clubs are just dilution...... for my credibility check my posts correctly predicting the collapse of the DA and the addition of only SD Surf and one other club from last spring weeks before any of it went down..... keep your friends close and your coach contacts closer lol


What if they can only add 1 new spot? Who brings more value to the ECNL, Legends or Beach?


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## Sike

futboldad1 said:


> GA is already cut off at the knees in Cali....... this will become even more apparent once we get a proper season...... both the Beach and Legends top teams all play ECRL...... I am not trying to be an ass but Pats and WC are weak on the girls side..... look at results from 2019-20..... and that was before all the defections to the ECNL clubs..... anyways my point is that there is very little chance that the ECNL adds more than two clubs in the SW..... and only Beach and Legends stack up....... like @GT45 says the other clubs are just dilution...... for my credibility check my posts correctly predicting the collapse of the DA and the addition of only SD Surf and one other club from last spring weeks before any of it went down..... keep your friends close and your coach contacts closer lol


I think the ECNL clubs would actually prefer to leave Legends and Beach out too.  For many age groups, the defections you mentioned happened at Beach and Legends too, which only made the current ECNL teams stronger with basically zero effort.  I also don't think the current ECNL clubs in SoCal care that much about competing against GA as they clearly have the top league in SoCal.  However, if they do think they are competing with GA and wanted to kill it completely in SoCal, they could admit all four of those clubs and still have less teams in the girls SW conference than the boys ecnl SW conference.  At the end of the day, if I am one of the leaders at a club like Blues or Slammers, I vote against admitting anybody new this year.


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## crush

Willie said:


> What if they can only add 1 new spot? Who brings more value to the ECNL, Legends or Beach?


Silver Lakes Soccer Fields, Restaurant, Bar, Water Park and free Horse Back riding is why Legends deserves first pick in.  Sorry Kicker....lol!


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## Willie

crush said:


> Silver Lakes Soccer Fields, Restaurant, Bar, Water Park and free Horse Back riding is why Legends deserves first pick in.  Sorry Kicker....lol!


I never thought about the Silver Lakes benefit of Legends over Beach. I have heard from a few people that only 1 team being added this season is the most likely scenario. I was thinking Beach would be preferred but gaining Silver Lakes access seems like a serious edge.


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## crush

Willie said:


> I never thought about the Silver Lakes benefit of Legends over Beach. I have heard from a few people that only 1 team being added this season is the most likely scenario. I was thinking Beach would be preferred but gaining Silver Lakes access seems like a serious edge.


I think both deserve entrance based on pure soccer and winning,  Both of these clubs are always some of the best.  No more goat snatching moving forward.  Play ball!!!


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## LASTMAN14

Sike said:


> I think the ECNL clubs would actually prefer to leave Legends and Beach out too.  For many age groups, the defections you mentioned happened at Beach and Legends too, which only made the current ECNL teams stronger with basically zero effort.  I also don't think the current ECNL clubs in SoCal care that much about competing against GA as they clearly have the top league in SoCal.  However, if they do think they are competing with GA and wanted to kill it completely in SoCal, they could admit all four of those clubs and still have less teams in the girls SW conference than the boys ecnl SW conference.  At the end of the day, if I am one of the leaders at a club like Blues or Slammers, I vote against admitting anybody new this year.


Beach DA teams remained intact almost entirely, say for a small handful of players and added players from LAG DA.


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## LASTMAN14

Willie said:


> I never thought about the Silver Lakes benefit of Legends over Beach. I have heard from a few people that only 1 team being added this season is the most likely scenario. I was thinking Beach would be preferred but gaining Silver Lakes access seems like a serious edge.


Balboa Management developed Silver Lakes and the city of Norco owns the land. BM leases it from the city. Its a pay to play facility. I am not sure Legends has the same relationship like Surf has with the group that own So Cal Soccer Complex.


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## Kicker4Life

When are these decisions typically made?


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## Surf Zombie

My guess you’ll start seeing announcements between March 15th and April 15th. If you are basing additions on quality and damage done to GA your top four would probably have to be Top Hat, Beach, Legends and FC Virginia in whatever order. After that it wouldn’t surprise me to see a few random clubs from places like the Midwest to improve the travel.  
I read someplace last year that ECNL will never go past 120 clubs because of showcase capacity issue, and the league is at 113 right now. Whether that is true or not, who knows.


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## Footy30

Sike said:


> I think the ECNL clubs would actually prefer to leave Legends and Beach out too.  For many age groups, the defections you mentioned happened at Beach and Legends too, which only made the current ECNL teams stronger with basically zero effort.  I also don't think the current ECNL clubs in SoCal care that much about competing against GA as they clearly have the top league in SoCal.  However, if they do think they are competing with GA and wanted to kill it completely in SoCal, they could admit all four of those clubs and still have less teams in the girls SW conference than the boys ecnl SW conference.  At the end of the day, if I am one of the leaders at a club like Blues or Slammers, I vote against admitting anybody new this year.


Really? I would think Slammers, Blues, LAFC Slammers, etc. would welcome the competition. I refuse to badmouth clubs, but it's pretty obvious that a few clubs currently in the ECNL are on the weak side and both Beach and Legends have strong teams. It was exciting to get SD Surf /Real and it will be equally exciting if Beach and Legends are allowed in. That's just my two cents not that it matters...  Actually I just re-read your post and perhaps I misunderstood? I'm tired as hell today forgive me if I misunderstood..


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## Giesbock

I’m the dad of a GA player. Loves her team and coach. Only 2 games 1-1 record. No one is looking backwards to DA standings just working hard.

Here’s my question: does ECNL offer a substantially  better platform for exposure than GA (?) because as I understand it, college coaches and scouts don’t recruit teams, they recruit individual players.  Does ECNL have better coaches? Better connections?  Has anyone actually seen top ECNL quality vs. top GA quality - this season - to be able to say that ECNL is the best recruiting platform?  Appreciate any comments.


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## GT45

Giesbock said:


> I’m the dad of a GA player. Loves her team and coach. Only 2 games 1-1 record. No one is looking backwards to DA standings just working hard.
> 
> Here’s my question: does ECNL offer a substantially  better platform for exposure than GA (?) because as I understand it, college coaches and scouts don’t recruit teams, they recruit individual players.  Does ECNL have better coaches? Better connections?  Has anyone actually seen top ECNL quality vs. top GA quality - this season - to be able to say that ECNL is the best recruiting platform?  Appreciate any comments.


The GA league has a few strong teams and some really weak teams which leads to blow outs. ECNL is much stronger throughout so the competition is better. ECNL Showcases will be the best attended events for exposure. It is where most of the top teams are, so it makes sense for a college coach to attend where most of the best players are. ECNL has been around a long time and has a great product. GA is brand new. The league needs to prove itself with showcases and quality. 

That Legends and Beach put their A teams in ECRL and their B teams in GA is as big a statement there is about the quality perception of the two leagues.


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## dad4

GT45 said:


> The GA league has a few strong teams and some really weak teams which leads to blow outs. ECNL is much stronger throughout so the competition is better. ECNL Showcases will be the best attended events for exposure. It is where most of the top teams are, so it makes sense for a college coach to attend where most of the best players are. ECNL has been around a long time and has a great product. GA is brand new. The league needs to prove itself with showcases and quality.
> 
> That Legends and Beach put their A teams in ECRL and their B teams in GA is *as big a statement there is about the quality perception of the two leagues.*


 Legends and Beach put their top teams in ECRL because any other decision would kill their chances of an ECNL membership.

It has absolutely nothing to do with a perception that GA is weaker than ECRL.   It has to do with a perception that ECNL is more stable and more profitable, which it is.

Nor does it really say much about parity within ECNL.  There are plenty of weak teams and blowouts in ECNL.  Any league which does not relegate weak teams has blowouts, and ECNL is no exception.


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## GT45

dad4 said:


> Legends and Beach put their top teams in ECRL because any other decision would kill their chances of an ECNL membership.
> 
> It has absolutely nothing to do with a perception that GA is weaker than ECRL.   It has to do with a perception that ECNL is more stable and more profitable, which it is.
> 
> Nor does it really say much about parity within ECNL.  There are plenty of weak teams and blowouts in ECNL.  Any league which does not relegate weak teams has blowouts, and ECNL is no exception.


Dad go check some of the GA scores in the Southwest Conference (or whatever you call it). Then check scores in ECNL. I did not say ECRL is better than GA. It was the only choice Beach and Legends had to be a part of ECNL. Their motivation to put their top teams in ECNL's second division over GA shows you where they want to be in the long run. You admit their motivation is to join ECNL. That was exactly what my post was saying. They do not perceive GA to be as strong as ECNL, so they chose to put their eggs in ECNL's basket for this season.

I pulled the U16 Girls from the GA league. Tell me these are competitive games that a college coach would want to watch:


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## Giesbock

I see the point.  Given the long D1 dead period, I’m guessing that any showcases after April 15 will be well attended by D1 coaches.


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## crush

Footy30 said:


> Really? I would think Slammers, Blues, LAFC Slammers, etc. would welcome the competition. I refuse to badmouth clubs, but it's pretty obvious that a few clubs currently in the ECNL are on the weak side and both Beach and Legends have strong teams. It was exciting to get SD Surf /Real and it will be equally exciting if Beach and Legends are allowed in. That's just my two cents not that it matters...  Actually I just re-read your post and perhaps I misunderstood? I'm tired as hell today forgive me if I misunderstood..


I love your two cents worth bro   I dreamed of having 16 teams in SW ECNL Conference, with two divisions of 8 teams each.


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## dad4

GT45 said:


> Dad go check some of the GA scores in the Southwest Conference (or whatever you call it). Then check scores in ECNL. I did not say ECRL is better than GA. It was the only choice Beach and Legends had to be a part of ECNL. Their motivation to put their top teams in ECNL's second division over GA shows you where they want to be in the long run. You admit their motivation is to join ECNL. That was exactly what my post was saying. They do not perceive GA to be as strong as ECNL, so they chose to put their eggs in ECNL's basket for this season.
> 
> I pulled the U16 Girls from the GA league. Tell me these are competitive games that a college coach would want to watch:
> View attachment 10009


If you are saying that ECNL > GA > ECRL, you're probably right.  

I just get annoyed at the transparent effort to put the club ahead of the kid.  How many kids need to get on unnecessary plane flights just so DOCs at letter league clubs can pretend that their weak year isn't weak?


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## SoccerFan4Life

dad4 said:


> If you are saying that ECNL > GA > ECRL, you're probably right.
> 
> I just get annoyed at the transparent effort to put the club ahead of the kid.  How many kids need to get on unnecessary plane flights just so DOCs at letter league clubs can pretend that their weak year isn't weak?


Can someone tell my why ECRL makes sense and how much better these teams are compared to a flight 1 discovery team?   I’ve heard ECRL is just a money making machine and most players don’t get a chance to make it to ECNL.      This is an honest question with no motivation other than understanding the landscape


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## Surf Zombie

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Can someone tell my why ECRL makes sense and how much better these teams are compared to a flight 1 discovery team?   I’ve heard ECRL is just a money making machine and most players don’t get a chance to make it to ECNL.      This is an honest question with no motivation other than understanding the landscape


i think for a lot of the kids they view it is a potential gateway to the ECNL team if they perform on the regional team. On my D’s team from U13-U14 there were two kids (deservedly IMO) promoted from the regional team to the top team.


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## Messi>CR7

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Can someone tell my why ECRL makes sense and how much better these teams are compared to a flight 1 discovery team?   I’ve heard ECRL is just a money making machine and most players don’t get a chance to make it to ECNL.      This is an honest question with no motivation other than understanding the landscape


ECRL, SCDSL Discovery are all money making machines.  Perhaps in U8 people might think there is a promotional path within a given club, but in most cases people realize that's not the reality very quickly.  When my DD was ready to jump from second team to a first team, she simply tried out at multiple clubs in our area.

People choose their team because they like their coach, practice location, teammates, etc.  At the end of the day, you get a handful of games per year, and hope that most are competitive.  If that means Discovery, great.  If that means ECRL, it's also fine.  The difference is really one extra trip to Arizona per year for ECRL if I'm not mistaken.  My club charges ECNL/ECRL/SCDSL pretty much the same amount of fee, i.e. after $3,000 who is counting the little difference.

You can certainly argue there is no need for all these leagues, but we're ten years too late for that already.  Specifically in SoCal, in ECRL you play the second teams from Surf, Blues, Real, etc, third and fourth teams from LAFC/Slammers, and first teams from Beach, Legends.

If you are in Discovery, you play good teams from small clubs, 3rd teams from ECNL clubs, and I believe the 4th teams from Legends and Beach (after ECRL, GA, and DPL).


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## Surf Zombie

I was just talking to a friend of mine who has a daughter in GA. Said the league added a few new clubs in the last week. Took a look at the GA website and looks like it’s one from TX and four up in OR & WA.

Sounds like league musical chairs is about to get moving.


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## Desert Hound

Surf Zombie said:


> I was just talking to a friend of mine who has a daughter in GA. Said the league added a few new clubs in the last week. Took a look at the GA website and looks like it’s one from TX and four up in OR & WA.
> 
> Sounds like league musical chairs is about to get moving.


Anyone heard of those clubs before?


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## Surf Zombie

I have not. 

BVB out of Texas & Bridge City SA, Harbor Premier, 
Washington Timbers & Eugene Timbers in the pacific north west.


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## Willie

crush said:


> I love your two cents worth bro   I dreamed of having 16 teams in SW ECNL Conference, with two divisions of 8 teams each.


When does ECNL typically announce new teams?


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## crush

Willie said:


> When does ECNL typically announce new teams?


I have no idea


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## futboldad1

Willie said:


> When does ECNL typically announce new teams?


March and April but there ain't nuthin typical about this year.....!


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## lafalafa

Willie said:


> When does ECNL typically announce new teams?


April to May but with this year who knows maybe later vs sooner.

The clock is really ticking down on league games for the SW.  Really need to start seeing home games locally in March to get a decent number in.

Between the 4 showcase blackout weekend's, champions league play, the playoff starts in June, school, etc there is not that many available to get the schedule in.   Hope that > 50% of the original SW league schedules can be played but getting everything reschedulled if the flood gates open up is going to be a tough tasks, every one and league will be scrambling to get new field dates and play in.


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## Copa9

GT45 said:


> Legends and Beach add value to ECNL. The other two have no sway. GA would just be solidified as a B league. No one is going to change their opinion on GA whether Pats and West Coast are in it or not. If you add these four, just call it SCDSL. That is what it will turn into. If ECNL is serious about maintaining its status as elite, everyone cannot be a member. GA is no threat right now. If US Soccer could not sustain a challenge to ECNL for more than a few years, no one else is going to.


It's all about the money as far as the programs go.  In the end, the top talent goes to the top programs in college.


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## Copa9

GT45 said:


> The GA league has a few strong teams and some really weak teams which leads to blow outs. ECNL is much stronger throughout so the competition is better. ECNL Showcases will be the best attended events for exposure. It is where most of the top teams are, so it makes sense for a college coach to attend where most of the best players are. ECNL has been around a long time and has a great product. GA is brand new. The league needs to prove itself with showcases and quality.
> 
> That Legends and Beach put their A teams in ECRL and their B teams in GA is as big a statement there is about the quality perception of the two leagues.


Except for the ol


GT45 said:


> Dad go check some of the GA scores in the Southwest Conference (or whatever you call it). Then check scores in ECNL. I did not say ECRL is better than GA. It was the only choice Beach and Legends had to be a part of ECNL. Their motivation to put their top teams in ECNL's second division over GA shows you where they want to be in the long run. You admit their motivation is to join ECNL. That was exactly what my post was saying. They do not perceive GA to be as strong as ECNL, so they chose to put their eggs in ECNL's basket for this season.
> 
> I pulled the U16 Girls from the GA league. Tell me these are competitive games that a college coach would want to watch:
> View attachment 10009


None of the games this last year matter. Anyone who thinks they do really doesn't understand what has been happening. As soon as things get back to "normal" where kids are actually allowed to play and practice and have more than four games in one year, then you can again start comparing who has won or lost. Until then, it's all a sh-- show.


----------



## GT45

Copa9 said:


> Except for the ol
> 
> None of the games this last year matter. Anyone who thinks they do really doesn't understand what has been happening. As soon as things get back to "normal" where kids are actually allowed to play and practice and have more than four games in one year, then you can again start comparing who has won or lost. Until then, it's all a sh-- show.


Except everyone is in the same competitive boat right now. The comparisons are fair. You cannot deny that the GA is top heavy and bottom heavy. It is pretty obvious, at least in the high school age groups.


----------



## crush

GT45 said:


> Except everyone is in the same competitive boat right now. The comparisons are fair. You cannot deny that the GA is top heavy and bottom heavy. It is pretty obvious, at least in the high school age groups.


some will be 3-2 and 2-1.  Most will be 19-1 and 23-2.  Top heavy is a great word for socal over the last three years.  No defense and lot's of goals.  Boring as heck!!!


----------



## happy9

GT45 said:


> Except everyone is in the same competitive boat right now. The comparisons are fair. You cannot deny that the GA is top heavy and bottom heavy. It is pretty obvious, at least in the high school age groups.


The GA is certainly top heavy but ECNL is generally the same.  I know it's hard this season to make comparisons.  You can take a peak at the Texas and Southeast ECNL conferences.  They've been playing since the pandemic began. Basically it's top 3 or 4, then everyone else (I just quickly looked at U17s).  There are 12 teams in each conference.  Texas looks a bit more competitive than the SE conference.

ECNL doesn't keep historical records so I don't know what the standing were last year, specifically for the SW conference.  The DA (before they went poooof) was usually competitive through the top seven (winning records), then 500 or sub 500 through eleven, then non competitive from 12-14 (I took a look at the SW conference from last year).  

I feel that's a pretty good balance.  

To your point, this year is a hard one to discern.  The GA has some work to do.  So far they've held up their end of the bargain in terms of organization and execution.  Let's see how the TX showcase is managed.  The threat of Legends and Beach going all in to ECNL is not good for them in the SW conference.  We will see what happens.  Plenty of GA girls getting selected for the U17 YNT.  We'll see how that plays out.  Youth soccer is a cutthroat game.  Parents will do what parents do, they control the dollars.  For us, we decided to stay put, as did the whole team (across all age groups, for the most part).  I suspect if coaches  leave, players will leave.  In AZ, for now, the top talent is in the GA.  That could change overnight, always does.

Yikes. too much typing.


----------



## timbuck

Heard a rumor that ECNL told CA teams that won't be able to participate in any games until CA opens up for sports again. (Meaning out of state league games or showcases.  Not sure about non-ECNL tournaments)
Can anyone confirm?


----------



## VegasParent

timbuck said:


> Heard a rumor that ECNL told CA teams that won't be able to participate in any games until CA opens up for sports again. (Meaning out of state league games or showcases.  Not sure about non-ECNL tournaments)
> Can anyone confirm?


I spoke to an ECNL coach last night and they said that they are hoping the Nevada governor will open things back up so Las Vegas can at least host league games. But they don't believe it will happen and apparently Players Showcase is already looking to move to April just in case the governor extends the pause.


----------



## Soccerfan2

timbuck said:


> Heard a rumor that ECNL told CA teams that won't be able to participate in any games until CA opens up for sports again. (Meaning out of state league games or showcases.  Not sure about non-ECNL tournaments)
> Can anyone confirm?


True. They did not allow CA teams to attend either Florida or Arizona ECNL showcases because US club insurance is not valid if an entity is violating state health guidance. That will continue until Ca removes the verbiage in the youth sports guidance they says “teams must not participate in out of state tournaments”.
Non-ECNL tournaments are going to be tricky too going forward because clubs will still need an insurance provider and all have now said they won’t cover teams violating guidance. They could still attend without insurance  I guess, but I doubt any will.


----------



## lafalafa

timbuck said:


> Heard a rumor that ECNL told CA teams that won't be able to participate in any games until CA opens up for sports again. (Meaning out of state league games or showcases.  Not sure about non-ECNL tournaments)
> Can anyone confirm?


League games are still on for certain states or cities like in AZ.    Same with the Tournaments, several going on president day weekend with ECxx teams.

Showcases have been a no go and the planned Tuscon one end of the month has been postponed for the boys.


----------



## futboldad1

happy9 said:


> ECNL doesn't keep historical records so I don't know what the standing were last year, specifically for the SW conference.  The DA (before they went poooof) was usually competitive through the top seven (winning records), then 500 or sub 500 through eleven, then non competitive from 12-14 (I took a look at the SW conference from last year).


My job involves number crunching and and I'm a bit of a numbers nerd lol........I have all the data from DA and ECNL last season and with the help of another parent on here we posted up the club charts last year. Here is ECNL by age group for 2019-2020 when the season as halted at the 60 percent mark by Covid-19........ I'll try and find DA it is buried on my desktop somewhere..........

G2007
1. Heat
2. LAFC
3. Blues
4. Eagles
5. Breakers
6. Slammers
7. Rising
8. Rebels
9. AZ Arsenal
10. Sharks
11. Strikers 
12. Arsenal

G2006
1. LAFC
2. Rebels
3. Slammers
4. Heat
5. Arsenal
6. Blues
7. Strikers
8. Breakers
9. Rising
10. Eagles
11. AZ Arsenal
12. Sharks

G2005
1. LAFC
2. Rising
3. Strikers
4. Heat
5. Eagles
6. Breakers
7. Sharks
8. Blues
9. Arsenal
10. Slammers
11. Rebels
12. AZ Arsenal

G2004
1. LAFC
2. Rising
3. Slammers
4. Blues
5. Strikers
6. AZ Arsenal
7. Heat
8. Breakers
9. Arsenal
10.Rebels
11. Sharks
12. Eagles

G2003
1. Slammers
2. LAFC
3. Blues
4. Breakers
5. Rebels
6. AZ Arsenal
7. Strikers
8. Sharks
9. Arsenal
10. Heat
11. Eagles
12. Rising

G2002
1. Blues
2. LAFC
3. Strikers
4. AZ Arsenal
5. Eagles
6. Slammers
7. Arsenal
8. Rebels
9. Breakers
10. Sharks 
11. Heat 
12. Rising

G2002 Composite 
1. Blues
2. AZ Arsenal
3. Slammers
4. Breakers
5. Sharks
6. Eagles
7. Heat
8. LAFC
9. Rebels
10. Strikers
11. Arsenal
No Rising team


----------



## futboldad1

Found it....well close enough lol..... below is the chart a follow parent and I put together last year....... stats and not opinions....... San Diego Surf will raise the level...... when we get a proper season....Real deserved entry....... With Galaxy SB gone it means Legends and then Beach should be next if anybody else gets in.....


GDA AND ECNL 2020 Standings Per Club by PPGGDA Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU14U15U16U17U18/U19San Diego Surf2.421441Legends417525LA Galaxy536178Real So Cal5.2482102Beach Futbol Club6.6132639SC Blues6.6649113Albion SC7.25510511LA Galaxy San Diego8.210133114Pateadores9.21212787SC del Sol9.211312614LA Surf SC9.49911126Utah Royals FC - Arizona9.814118133OC Surf Soccer10.671413910Albion SC Las Vegas11.6810141412ECNL Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU13U14U15U16U17U18U18 CompLAFC Slammers2.42111228So Cal Blues SC3.73684311Slammers FC4.663103163LA Breakers FC6.35868494Heat FC6.3144710117Strikers FC6.6117357310Arizona Arsenal SC7.1911126642Phoenix Rising FC7.379221212No teamRebels SC7.6821110589Eagles SC7.64105121156Arsenal FC8.9125999711DMCV Sharks9.010127118105


----------



## GT45

timbuck said:


> Heard a rumor that ECNL told CA teams that won't be able to participate in any games until CA opens up for sports again. (Meaning out of state league games or showcases.  Not sure about non-ECNL tournaments)
> Can anyone confirm?


The guidance does not say you cannot play league games out of state. It just says tournaments. So I don't think this affects league play in other states. Nevada's pause only lasts until mid-february and their numbers are way down, so I would be surprised if they do not open back up. 

California is likely to open soon anyway.



			https://www.sacbee.com/sports/high-school/article248984965.html


----------



## Willie

futboldad1 said:


> Found it....well close enough lol..... below is the chart a follow parent and I put together last year....... stats and not opinions....... San Diego Surf will raise the level...... when we get a proper season....Real deserved entry....... With Galaxy SB gone it means Legends and then Beach should be next if anybody else gets in.....
> 
> 
> GDA AND ECNL 2020 Standings Per Club by PPGGDA Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU14U15U16U17U18/U19San Diego Surf2.421441Legends417525LA Galaxy536178Real So Cal5.2482102Beach Futbol Club6.6132639SC Blues6.6649113Albion SC7.25510511LA Galaxy San Diego8.210133114Pateadores9.21212787SC del Sol9.211312614LA Surf SC9.49911126Utah Royals FC - Arizona9.814118133OC Surf Soccer10.671413910Albion SC Las Vegas11.6810141412ECNL Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU13U14U15U16U17U18U18 CompLAFC Slammers2.42111228So Cal Blues SC3.73684311Slammers FC4.663103163LA Breakers FC6.35868494Heat FC6.3144710117Strikers FC6.6117357310Arizona Arsenal SC7.1911126642Phoenix Rising FC7.379221212No teamRebels SC7.6821110589Eagles SC7.64105121156Arsenal FC8.9125999711DMCV Sharks9.010127118105


Are you thinking Legends is the only one in this year?


----------



## futboldad1

Willie said:


> Are you thinking Legends is the only one in this year?


Good question..... my money is on both fwiw


----------



## Surf Zombie

I’m thinking ECNL takes Top Hat, Legends, Beach & FC Virginia plus a few others in places like the mid west where the travel isn’t great.


----------



## Messi>CR7

Willie said:


> Are you thinking Legends is the only one in this year?


It's always better to have even number of teams.  Otherwise, one team has to sit out every weekend.


----------



## Willie

Messi>CR7 said:


> It's always better to have even number of teams.  Otherwise, one team has to sit out every weekend.


This makes sense to me. So it is most likely 0 added or both Beach and Legends.  Does ECNL have an absolute need to add teams this year ?


----------



## gotothebushes

Everyone call the Governors office ! 
 (916) 445-2841. Call everyday until they open California up....


----------



## gotothebushes

Everyone call the Governors office !
(916) 445-2841. Call everyday until they open California up. I got through, spoke to rep. I told them they should open outdoor sports, explained my reason, pointed out hypocrisy. I've ask for the his Senior staff to call me.


gotothebushes said:


> Everyone call the Governors office !
> (916) 445-2841. Call everyday until they open California up....


I got through, spoke to rep. I told them they should open outdoor sports, explained my reason, pointed out hypocrisy. I've ask for the his Senior staff to call me. Not funny Crush! lol


----------



## Scott m Shurson

VegasParent said:


> I spoke to an ECNL coach last night and they said that they are hoping the Nevada governor will open things back up so Las Vegas can at least host league games. But they don't believe it will happen and apparently Players Showcase is already looking to move to April just in case the governor extends the pause.


Players Showcase doesn’t even list the girl’s tourney, for March, on their site.  There’s a date for the boys... I think 1 or 2 weeks before.


----------



## Glitterhater

Guess Placer won't be getting that girls ECNL, huh?


----------



## Scott m Shurson

Glitterhater said:


> Guess Placer won't be getting that girls ECNL, huh?


Haven’t heard anything on that.  You?


----------



## GT45

Scott m Shurson said:


> Players Showcase doesn’t even list the girl’s tourney, for March, on their site.  There’s a date for the boys... I think 1 or 2 weeks before.


Yes they do. It is March 19-21








						College Soccer Tournament | Players Showcase Las Vegas
					

[...]Read More...




					playersshowcase.com


----------



## Scott m Shurson

GT45 said:


> Yes they do. It is March 19-21
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> College Soccer Tournament | Players Showcase Las Vegas
> 
> 
> [...]Read More...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> playersshowcase.com


I don’t see where it lists girls.  Just boys.  It does show that date under “registration” but why have the boys up on the homepage and not the ladies?


----------



## GT45

Scott m Shurson said:


> I don’t see where it lists girls.  Just boys.  It does show that date under “registration” but why have the boys up on the homepage and not the ladies?


LOOK CLOSER. It is listed right under the boys date.


----------



## Glitterhater

Scott m Shurson said:


> Haven’t heard anything on that.  You?


The last I heard was that it was still a "no", but that they were going to keep trying? Supposedly having SJ and Davis so close was making things trying, (but they gave it to the Boys at Placer, so who really knows?)


----------



## Scott m Shurson

Glitterhater said:


> The last I heard was that it was still a "no", but that they were going to keep trying? Supposedly having SJ and Davis so close was making things trying, (but they gave it to the Boys at Placer, so who really knows?)


I think we both know what it would take.


----------



## Scott m Shurson

GT45 said:


> LOOK CLOSER. It is listed right under the boys date.
> View attachment 10054


Wasn’t there when I looked yesterday morning.  This is what was up:



Thanks though.


----------



## Avanti

I am surprised that nobody is leaking the big news when it comes to girls ECNL and the South LA area


----------



## MacDre

Avanti said:


> I am surprised that nobody is leaking the big news when it comes to girls ECNL and the South LA area


Be a leader and take some initiative.


----------



## Glitterhater

Scott m Shurson said:


> I think we both know what it would take.


I have no insider info, (not part of the cool kids club!) but until they get a complex of some sort, (not Tinker- it sucks,) I'm just not sure it will come to fruition for the girls. Feel sorry for all those DA players. I think that's why SJ and Davis got so many Placer folks!


----------



## Kicker4Life

Avanti said:


> I am surprised that nobody is leaking the big news when it comes to girls ECNL and the South LA area


What news?  ECNL doesn’t typically even meet till April/March.


----------



## GT45

Scott m Shurson said:


> Wasn’t there when I looked yesterday morning.  This is what was up:
> 
> View attachment 10057
> 
> Thanks though.


I have been on there several times in the past two weeks as my DD's team is going. It has been up. Must have been your computer glitch.


----------



## Scott m Shurson

Glitterhater said:


> I have no insider info, (not part of the cool kids club!) but until they get a complex of some sort, (not Tinker- it sucks,) I'm just not sure it will come to fruition for the girls. Feel sorry for all those DA players. I think that's why SJ and Davis got so many Placer folks!


I think Blues and Placer would have to merge, again, for this area to get a 3rd ECNL club in the region.  

Sacrilegious, I know.


----------



## ToonArmy

Scott m Shurson said:


> I think Blues and Placer would have to merge, again, for this area to get a 3rd ECNL club in the region.
> 
> Sacrilegious, I know.


That's kinda how I feel about West Coast and Pats on the girls side. Ever since Pats was given DA and West Coast lost ECNL by going all in DA they have watered each other down and you already have 4 other OC ECNL clubs/teams. No way they ever merge that's a horrible idea. Why was Pateadores ever given DA for girls in the first place? Riding on the backs of the boys?


----------



## crush

ToonArmy said:


> That's kinda how I feel about West Coast and Pats on the girls side. Ever since Pats was given DA and West Coast lost ECNL by going all in DA they have watered each other down and you already have 4 other OC ECNL clubs/teams. No way they ever merge that's a horrible idea. Why was Pateadores ever given DA for girls in the first place? Riding on the backs of the boys?


Pats boys side is real deal I heard.  I thought they were top dog in 2016?  When Pat's Girls were announced as *Fully Funded,* it peaked my interest, I wont lie.  LA Galaxy as well with the* Fully Funded* Girls program.  *Everything Free *has a nice ring to it bro.  LAFC as well was going *Fully Funded* as did Surf and Legends go *Fully Funded*.  Blues & Strikers makes you pay so the fact their still holding strong is a testament to, "you get what you pay for."


----------



## Glitterhater

Scott m Shurson said:


> I think Blues and Placer would have to merge, again, for this area to get a 3rd ECNL club in the region.
> 
> Sacrilegious, I know.


I am not a Placer fan, (no shade to anyone who is,) I just feel like they did a lot of awful shit last year. Not that Blues doesn't have their own issues, (show me a club who doesn't though, right?) but I do think if they end up getting the fields with WJ, that could be huge. They do have some really good coaches. 

Unfortuntately I think you are probably spot-on. But, we can hope it doesn't happen, right?


----------



## Footy30

Kicker4Life said:


> What news?  ECNL doesn’t typically even meet till April/March.


 I hate when people do this... either share the news or don't say anything at all.. what's the point??


----------



## Scott m Shurson

Glitterhater said:


> I am not a Placer fan, (no shade to anyone who is,) I just feel like they did a lot of awful shit last year. Not that Blues doesn't have their own issues, (show me a club who doesn't though, right?) but I do think if they end up getting the fields with WJ, that could be huge. They do have some really good coaches.
> 
> Unfortuntately I think you are probably spot-on. But, we can hope it doesn't happen, right?


Time heals all wounds... in theory. The fields are happening, both WJ and expansion to the current location.  I think there’s too much bad history, though, or at least too many key people that were there the first time.  Maybe Blues goes after ECNL in a year or two.

I do, though, think it would take something like that.  They both have some really good coaches.


----------



## soccer4us

Scott m Shurson said:


> Time heals all wounds... in theory. The fields are happening, both WJ and expansion to the current location.  I think there’s too much bad history, though, or at least too many key people that were there the first time.  Maybe Blues goes after ECNL in a year or two.
> 
> I do, though, think it would take something like that.  They both have some really good coaches.


If you know the history, as long as GT and RB still involved, good luck! Would be entertaining to see them try though.


----------



## Scott m Shurson

soccer4us said:


> If you know the history, as long as GT and RB still involved, good luck! Would be entertaining to see them try though.


We both know it well, but these are unique times.  Look at you using the term “entertaining”!


----------



## Footy30

Scott m Shurson said:


> We both know it well, but these are unique times.  Look at you using the term “entertaining”!


Just curious, as I know nothing about NorCal soccer... is this Blues under the umbrella of the So Cal Blues that are here in OC?


----------



## Scott m Shurson

Footy30 said:


> Just curious, as I know nothing about NorCal soccer... is this Blues under the umbrella of the So Cal Blues that are here in OC?


Totally separate.


----------



## crush

Footy30 said:


> Just curious, as I know nothing about NorCal soccer... is this Blues under the umbrella of the So Cal Blues that are here in OC?


It's called Socal Blues for a reason.  I guess they could come up with a Nocal Blues too.


----------



## zags77

Avanti said:


> I am surprised that nobody is leaking the big news when it comes to girls ECNL and the South LA area


Please do share what the big news is.


----------



## Willie

zags77 said:


> Please do share what the big news is.


Avanti knows nothing.


----------



## happy9

Willie said:


> Avanti knows nothing.


I'll bite and take a guess - Legends and Beach are in, along with another team(s) in the SW, maybe an AZ team or two, if the second can be convinced..


----------



## futboldad1

The issue with sharing is those of us who know have been told by coaches in strict confidence....... I've DMd and text with parents I know but I am not putting it on public blast......... apologies if that pisses any 1 off but there is plenty of breadcrumbs in postings on this forum if you know where to look......lets just say that the big decisions have been made and the SW conference divisions will be even better competition for my DD...... I am not sure what remains of her u-15 season but her u-16 ECNL season gone be the fiercest...... I am sure someone will spill the beans any day it just not going to be me.......


----------



## futboldad1

happy9 said:


> I'll bite and take a guess - Legends and Beach are in, along with another team in the SW, maybe an AZ team.


no comment happy.............lol


----------



## happy9

futboldad1 said:


> no comment happy.............lol


Oh come on!!


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> I'll bite and take a guess - Legends and Beach are in, along with another team in the SW, maybe an AZ team.


Good guess.  I'll stab at this big news rumor mill gossip.  South LA means Beach it is.  Kicker, you know it all, please indulge us with the truth.  It would be amazing to also get Legends in this group for next season.  My dd has informed me she is all in for another year of club.  Patience is paying off.


----------



## happy9

futboldad1 said:


> no comment happy.............lol


Ha...well, we will see, the breadcrumbs are starting to pile up.  I think it's just one AZ team, the other feels good about their position.  The other two socal clubs..well, the proverbial writing on the wall.  Will make for great socal league.  Why would they need to travel anywhere?


----------



## Surf Zombie

The GA has added a bunch of clubs in the last week: Harbor Premier, Washington Timbers, Eugene Timbers, Bridge City SA, Palm Beach Gardens Predators, AFC Lightning, Southern Soccer Academy, South Carolina Surf & BVB. 

I wonder if that is a precursor to ECNL expansion announcements?


----------



## Desert Hound

happy9 said:


> I think it's just one AZ team


So you are saying Sandsharks got in? hehe.


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> Ha...well, we will see, the breadcrumbs are starting to pile up.  I think it's just one AZ team, the other feels good about their position.  The other two socal clubs..well, the proverbial writing on the wall.  Will make for great socal league.  Why would they need to travel anywhere?


It's really too bad the higher ups and leadership in socal couldn't have worked for the better of all the girls and their parents the last few years.  The big rub was the stealing of goats from the Beaches and the Legends.  It was wrong. My dd was caught in the toxic middle of all these turf wars.. These clubs had little wars going on as I see now.


----------



## futboldad1

crush said:


> It's really too bad the higher ups and leadership in socal couldn't have worked for the better of all the girls and their parents the last few years.  The big rub was the stealing of goats from the Beaches and the Legends.  It was wrong. My dd was caught in the toxic middle of all these turf wars.. These clubs had little wars going on as I see now.


I have nothing against Beach and Legends but they can hardly be described as helpless victims in all of this....... they had the DA and did plenty of recruiting from that platform and when it dissolved they used possible entry in ECNL to recruit more........I think many Beach and Legends families are deserving of anything good that comes their way but do not forget they are powerhouse clubs and just like the others have given as good as they have gotten over the last decade......... every clubs first priority is themselves whatever the club


----------



## Footy30

futboldad1 said:


> I have nothing against Beach and Legends but they can hardly be described as helpless victims in all of this....... they had the DA and did plenty of recruiting from that platform and when it dissolved they used possible entry in ECNL to recruit more........I think many Beach and Legends families are deserving of anything good that comes their way but do not forget they are powerhouse clubs and just like the others have given as good as they have gotten over the last decade......... every clubs first priority is themselves whatever the club


I hope it's both Legends and Beach, that will really add some competition to the SW division.. but if both are added _and _AZ teams are also added,  the conference sure is getting quite large. This is of course all speculation because nobody has confirmed Beach and Legends just food for thought.  @futboldad1 I totally understand you not blasting info on here I wouldn't either.


----------



## Kicker4Life

futboldad1 said:


> I have nothing against Beach and Legends but they can hardly be described as helpless victims in all of this....... they had the DA and did plenty of recruiting from that platform and when it dissolved they used possible entry in ECNL to recruit more........I think many Beach and Legends families are deserving of anything good that comes their way but do not forget they are powerhouse clubs and just like the others have given as good as they have gotten over the last decade......... every clubs first priority is themselves whatever the club


He is referring to pre-GDA days.


----------



## crush

futboldad1 said:


> I have nothing against *Beach and Legends but they can hardly be described as helpless victims *in all of this....... they had the DA and did plenty of recruiting from that platform and when it dissolved they used possible entry in ECNL to recruit more........I think many Beach and Legends families are deserving of anything good that comes their way but do not forget they are powerhouse clubs and just like the others have given as good as they have gotten over the last decade......... every clubs first priority is themselves whatever the club


Ya, your right bro.  They did get most of the glory the last three years in socal.  I heard a rumor of some insane stuff on the inside but I wont let it out on here.  I hope we have 16 or even 18 teams for the great Southwest ECNL Conference 2021/2022.  This is it bro.  The last ride.  Two divisions.  Play ball!!!


----------



## Glitterhater

happy9 said:


> Ha...well, we will see, the breadcrumbs are starting to pile up.  I think it's just one AZ team, the other feels good about their position.  The other two socal clubs..well, the proverbial writing on the wall.  Will make for great socal league.  Why would they need to travel anywhere?


If your guess is true, you're right- no need to travel. And with COVID, (in the short term,) that may be to their benefit!


----------



## Surf Zombie

crush said:


> Ya, your right bro.  They did get most of the glory the last three years in socal.  I heard a rumor of some insane stuff on the inside but I wont let it out on here.  I hope we have 16 or even 18 teams for the great Southwest ECNL Conference 2021/2022.  This is it bro.  The last ride.  Two divisions.  Play ball!!!


The Northeast conference had 18 teams from MA to MD and they chopped it into two 9 team conferences.  It has worked out great and cut travel in half.


----------



## crush

Surf Zombie said:


> The Northeast conference had 18 teams from MA to MD and they chopped it into two 9 team conferences.  It has worked out great and cut travel in half.


I love that.  Kicker?  Tech?  We need a super socal league.


----------



## Soccer Pop

Desert Hound said:


> So you are saying Sandsharks got in? hehe.


I hear it is Utah Royals


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> So you are saying Sandsharks got in? hehe.


Yep, I think so   ....


----------



## Desert Hound

Soccer Pop said:


> I hear it is Utah Royals


Royals would be the obvious one to bring in.


----------



## NewUser27

any exciting news on the boys ECNL side for California?


----------



## happy9

Soccer Pop said:


> I hear it is Utah Royals


I suppose there is a 50 50 chance it's them.  I've "heard" that ECNL was open to accepting 2 teams from AZ but one has chosen to go at it alone in the state.  It would make sense that Utah/RSL has made the decision to part ways with the GA and go  ECNL in order to be consistent with their platform offerings - Boys are already in ECNL.  The "other" club has always done it's own thing.  

May cause a ripple down the road I guess.  Let's see what parents do end of summer.  Fun times but all shall survive..


----------



## timbuck

crush said:


> I love that.  Kicker?  Tech?  We need a super socal league.


We had that.  It was called CSL-Premier


----------



## whatithink

happy9 said:


> I suppose there is a 50 50 chance it's them.  I've "heard" that ECNL was open to accepting 2 teams from AZ but one has chosen to go at it alone in the state.  It would make sense that Utah/RSL has made the decision to part ways with the GA and go  ECNL in order to be consistent with their platform offerings - Boys are already in ECNL.  The "other" club has always done it's own thing.
> 
> May cause a ripple down the road I guess.  Let's see what parents do end of summer.  Fun times but all shall survive..


I'd find it odd if Del Sol declined ECNL, that would be just weird.


----------



## Kicker4Life

timbuck said:


> We had that.  It was called CSL-Premier


Wasn’t that only on the Boys side?


----------



## Desert Hound

happy9 said:


> I suppose there is a 50 50 chance it's them.  I've "heard" that ECNL was open to accepting 2 teams from AZ but one has chosen to go at it alone in the state.  It would make sense that Utah/RSL has made the decision to part ways with the GA and go  ECNL in order to be consistent with their platform offerings - Boys are already in ECNL.  The "other" club has always done it's own thing.
> 
> May cause a ripple down the road I guess.  Let's see what parents do end of summer.  Fun times but all shall survive..


I think for Royals it makes sense. 

On the boys side they have ECNL and the MLS next. May as well call it a day and do ECNL on the girls side. If at some point the MLS clubs do something with girls, the Royals still have an in since they are currently tied in with RSL in Utah. 

But we shall see if and what happens in the SW this year.


----------



## Desert Hound

whatithink said:


> I'd find it odd if Del Sol declined ECNL, that would be just weird.


Yeah I am not sure what the upside for del Sol declining ECNL would be.


----------



## Sike

What is the story with Albion in San Diego?  Seems like they were always pretty strong on the girls side (certainly better than clubs like the Sharks).  They aren't playing ECNL, ECRL or GA?


----------



## Willie

Sike said:


> What is the story with Albion in San Diego?  Seems like they were always pretty strong on the girls side (certainly better than clubs like the Sharks).  They aren't playing ECNL, ECRL or GA?


Albion LV and SD are in GA.


----------



## Soccer Cat

Sike said:


> What is the story with Albion in San Diego?  Seems like they were always pretty strong on the girls side (certainly better than clubs like the Sharks).  They aren't playing ECNL, ECRL or GA?


Many of their top girls teams broke apart when they lost DA last year, including their National champs 06 team.


----------



## tjinaz

Desert Hound said:


> Yeah I am not sure what the upside for del Sol declining ECNL would be.


I don't think SCDS has the numbers for GAL/DPL and ECNL.  Their DPL team would struggle against APL in most age groups.  If RSL has one thing its numbers.  Now the quality of those numbers... ehhh... shmabey..

So you are theorizing RSL drops GA?  Hmm not sure about that.  If they are doing MLS and ECNL for the boys they would likely do GA and ECNL for the girls too.


----------



## Footy30

Soccer Cat said:


> Many of their top girls teams broke apart when they lost DA last year, including their National champs 06 team.


That's too bad because you're right Albion SD did have some strong teams...


----------



## Desert Hound

tjinaz said:


> I don't think SCDS has the numbers for GAL/DPL and ECNL.  Their DPL team would struggle against APL in most age groups.  If RSL has one thing its numbers.  Now the quality of those numbers... ehhh... shmabey..
> 
> So you are theorizing RSL drops GA?  Hmm not sure about that.  If they are doing MLS and ECNL for the boys they would likely do GA and ECNL for the girls too.


Actually I am not theorizing. Happy said one might get the call or has accepted. Based on what he said I would assume Royals. 

To be honest my opinion is if ECNL takes a team in AZ they take both for even numbers.

And if they grab 2 so cal teams I wouldn't be surprised to see them split the SW into a north and south. It will be interesting to see what happens if anything


----------



## Desert Hound

tjinaz said:


> don't think SCDS has the numbers for GAL/DPL and ECNL


I agree del Sol seems to have a numbers problem. I have talked about this a lot. They have issues numbers wise. Take a look at where and if they have 2nd teams are league wise


----------



## tjinaz

Desert Hound said:


> Actually I am not theorizing. Happy said one might get the call or has accepted. Based on what he said I would assume Royals.
> 
> To be honest my opinion is if ECNL takes a team in AZ they take both for even numbers.
> 
> And if they grab 2 so cal teams I wouldn't be surprised to see them split the SW into a north and south. It will be interesting to see what happens if anything


Only other clubs I think may even have a chance would be CCV or Thunder... maybe... possibly Premier?  But yea likely Royals.  They would simply rebadge either GA or DPL to ECNL depending on what emphasis they want to keep.


----------



## Desert Hound

tjinaz said:


> Only other clubs I think may even have a chance would be CCV or Thunder... maybe... possibly Premier?  But yea likely Royals.  They would simply rebadge either GA or DPL to ECNL depending on what emphasis they want to keep.


None of the other clubs you mentioned would get an ECNL nod.

If ECNL takes more clubs in AZ it is del sol or Royals or both.


----------



## 310soccer

Will this affect any GA teams in Norcal? I can see BAFC getting ECNL and Sporting.


----------



## happy9

whatithink said:


> I'd find it odd if Del Sol declined ECNL, that would be just weird.


I agree.  We'll never really know.  They'll claim victory either way.  If their staff remains intact, they'll keep hold of their core talent.  Their college coach relationships run deep and their results are proven.  We'll see end of summer.  The older age groups are pretty stable across all 4 clubs.  I don't think too many people will want to move.  

But who knows..


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> I agree del Sol seems to have a numbers problem. I have talked about this a lot. They have issues numbers wise. Take a look at where and if they have 2nd teams are league wise


 Del Sol certainly doesn't have the numbers to do both.  Not their style either.  They like to run small rosters and move key players in age groups around to fill gaps as needed.  Maximizes playing time.  When healthy, works like a dream.  When not, well, not good.  Big pros to small rosters, bigger cons to small rosters.  Can't keep everyone happy though.   They tend to stick to their guns on smaller rosters.

Makes sense for Royals to go, consolidate platforms for boys and girls.  If offered ECRL, slide their DPL teams in, make that pool bigger.


----------



## happy9

Sike said:


> What is the story with Albion in San Diego?  Seems like they were always pretty strong on the girls side (certainly better than clubs like the Sharks).  They aren't playing ECNL, ECRL or GA?


They play their girls in the GA.  Their Girls Academy staff is respected and pedigreed, with connections to YNTs, MNT and WMNT.  Player parents seem very happy with the direction they are taking that program.  Definitely some re-building going on in the aftermath of the DA implosion.  More timely hiring might have averted some departures but stuff happens.


----------



## Surf Zombie

I remember seeing an interview last year where the ECNL Commissioner said one of their big areas of focus, in terms of long term planning, was to reduce travel for league games.  I think splitting the old 18 team Northeast conference into two new conferences of 9 & 9 is where the league is heading.  This year at U14 in the "New England Conference" we have a home and away between the 9 clubs.  16 game season.  No more trips to Southern NJ, PA or Maryland. Its so much better than what the U13 travel was.  Plus, we'll still cross paths with those other clubs we use to play at tournaments like Jefferson Cup, PDA, Stars tournaments, etc.  

If the SW conference adds 2-4 clubs i bet it gets split into groups of 8 or 9.  

I could also see a couple clubs being added in FL and having that region as its own 8 team conference and split apart from GA/AL/SC.  Plug in a few more clubs in the midwest and everyone is in much better shape travel wise.  

Adding the right dozen or so clubs would really improve the travel for most member clubs and i think that will be a big focus.


----------



## Footy30

Surf Zombie said:


> I remember seeing an interview last year where the ECNL Commissioner said one of their big areas of focus, in terms of long term planning, was to reduce travel for league games.  I think splitting the old 18 team Northeast conference into two new conferences of 9 & 9 is where the league is heading.  This year at U14 in the "New England Conference" we have a home and away between the 9 clubs.  16 game season.  No more trips to Southern NJ, PA or Maryland. Its so much better than what the U13 travel was.  Plus, we'll still cross paths with those other clubs we use to play at tournaments like Jefferson Cup, PDA, Stars tournaments, etc.
> 
> If the SW conference adds 2-4 clubs i bet it gets split into groups of 8 or 9.
> 
> I could also see a couple clubs being added in FL and having that region as its own 8 team conference and split apart from GA/AL/SC.  Plug in a few more clubs in the midwest and everyone is in much better shape travel wise.
> 
> Adding the right dozen or so clubs would really improve the travel for most member clubs and i think that will be a big focus.


I think this is a great idea and it's also what @crush has suggested several times.. I am all for improving the travel associated with ECNL! Let's hope this is the case.


----------



## crush

Footy30 said:


> I think this is a great idea and it's also what @crush has suggested several times.. I am all for improving the travel associated with ECNL! Let's hope this is the case.


Thanks for being honest and giving me a little praise.  I do like praise and encouragement from others.  I thank you again for my avatar name.  Everyone thought I was hiding from something when in all truthfulness, I was trying to find the right name for me.  Crush is so me footy.  No reason we travel outside of AZ or NV for league games for kids U15 and up.  Need to practice road trips.  So fun.  Maybe one East Coast tournament.


----------



## tjinaz

happy9 said:


> Del Sol certainly doesn't have the numbers to do both.  Not their style either.  They like to run small rosters and move key players in age groups around to fill gaps as needed.  Maximizes playing time.  When healthy, works like a dream.  When not, well, not good.  Big pros to small rosters, bigger cons to small rosters.  Can't keep everyone happy though.   They tend to stick to their guns on smaller rosters.
> 
> Makes sense for Royals to go, consolidate platforms for boys and girls.  If offered ECRL, slide their DPL teams in, make that pool bigger.


Problem is SCDS is losing skilled players at an alarming rate.  Look at the roster photos for RSL DA and DPL teams some of the girls are still wearing their orange SCDS shirts from the previous season.  RSL and Arsenal own the east valley and the north is split between Rising, RSL and SCDS.  Too many options and parents that won't stay unless their kids is sure to be rostered on a letter league team.  They used to have several players on National team but now they have all left for Rising or RSL.  SCDS has gotten stagnant and will need a major effort to get back to their pervious level, either that or merge with another club that has a big rec program.


----------



## crush

tjinaz said:


> Problem is SCDS is losing skilled players at an alarming rate.  Look at the roster photos for RSL DA and DPL teams some of the girls are still wearing their orange SCDS shirts from the previous season.  RSL and Arsenal own the east valley and the north is split between Rising, RSL and SCDS.  Too many options and parents that won't stay unless their kids is sure to be rostered on a letter league team.  They used to have several players on National team but now they have all left for Rising or RSL.  SCDS has gotten stagnant and will need a major effort to get back to their pervious level, either that or merge with another club that has a big rec program.


I'm so confused with AZ now.  We need four clubs for ECNL.  Rising and Utah Royals are in Arizona?  One is GAL and the other is ECNL?   Plus Arizona Arsenal is ECNL and Del Sol is what now?  Which one of the clubs was the old Scottsdale Blackhawks?  I liked that team btw.  Arizona has talent and needs four teams.  Let's get this fixed before the new season.


----------



## happy9

tjinaz said:


> Problem is SCDS is losing skilled players at an alarming rate.  Look at the roster photos for RSL DA and DPL teams some of the girls are still wearing their orange SCDS shirts from the previous season.  RSL and Arsenal own the east valley and the north is split between Rising, RSL and SCDS.  Too many options and parents that won't stay unless their kids is sure to be rostered on a letter league team.  They used to have several players on National team but now they have all left for Rising or RSL.  SCDS has gotten stagnant and will need a major effort to get back to their pervious level, either that or merge with another club that has a big rec program.


Why do you think they are losing talent at an alarming rate, especially for their top teams? They are basically intact from end of last season. While there are a few girls who have left over the last year, the  majority of the departures have been due to not making teams and parents taking their players elsewhere to make teams.  They've filled those gaps rather nicely by recruiting. Now, if you are referring tot he 04 max exodus a few years ago...then yes, that was alarming and that year group has never recovered.  You do have to wonder about their state league and DPL strategy.  With that said, those teams seem to have the most fun and players/parents seem happy to do what they do. 

As far as YNTs are concerned, they sent 3 girls from the same age group to YNT camp this time last year and they are sending another one this year.  Their batch of seniors this year have power 5 pedigree.

Their approach is different to say the least.  They will not carry large rosters.  There's been room on rosters for each of the girls who left who weren't offered spots. Again, maybe not the best approach when talking business, but if you want playing time on arguably the best girls teams in the state, DS has a spot for you, if you can make the team. Certainly there is argument on which teams are better (07-02/03) between clubs.  DS will point to their relationship with coaches and YNT staff.  It's an effective one.  

Will it win out in the end in terms of club viability - who knows.


----------



## Desert Hound

crush said:


> I'm so confused with AZ now.  We need four clubs for ECNL.  Rising and Utah Royals are in Arizona?  One is GAL and the other is ECNL?   Plus Arizona Arsenal is ECNL and Del Sol is what now?  Which one of the clubs was the old Scottsdale Blackhawks?  I liked that team btw.  Arizona has talent and needs four teams.  Let's get this fixed before the new season.


Blackhawks changed their name to Rising after the club worked a deal with the USL pro team Phx Rising. 
Rising is ECNL
Arsenal is ECNL
del Sol is GA
Royals is GA.


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> I'm so confused with AZ now.  We need four clubs for ECNL.  Rising and Utah Royals are in Arizona?  One is GAL and the other is ECNL?   Plus Arizona Arsenal is ECNL and Del Sol is what now?  Which one of the clubs was the old Scottsdale Blackhawks?  I liked that team btw.  Arizona has talent and needs four teams.  Let's get this fixed before the new season.


I bet you get one team - Utah Royals(currently GA).  I don't think you'll get two.  Don't know what will happen with Arsenal, likely nothing this year.  They are the weakest of the 4 big clubs in AZ.  And when I mean weak, I mean ECNL weak.  They are a great club on their side of town and do a pretty goo  job of providing teams for their communities. The blackhawks are now Phoenix Rising.


----------



## crush

Desert Hound said:


> Blackhawks changed their name to Rising after the club worked a deal with the USL pro team Phx Rising.
> Rising is ECNL
> Arsenal is ECNL
> del Sol is GA
> Royals is GA.


Thanks for help bro.  I get it now.  So, if ECNL gets those GAL teams, then the Sandsharks will get the call up to the GAL?


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> I bet you get one team - Utah Royals(currently GA).  I don't think you'll get two.  Don't know what will happen with Arsenal, likely nothing this year.  They are the weakest of the 4 big clubs in AZ.  And when I mean weak, I mean ECNL weak.  They are a great club on their side of town and do a pretty goo  job of providing teams for their communities. The blackhawks are now Phoenix Rising.


Lot's of movement in the desert.  I honestly can;t keep up.  I do love the drive and the games are quality.  My advise is to get together so we can have 4 teams in ECNL.  Royals are the best, right?  I only care about u17 btw and pure competition.  I'm tired.  Tired of confusion and division.


----------



## Desert Hound

crush said:


> Thanks for help bro.  I get it now.  So, if ECNL gets those GAL teams, then the Sandsharks will get the call up to the GAL?


I always joke about Sandsharks. 

The are a small club up in N. Scottsdale. They have a few decent teams here and there. They have the problem the other small clubs do. When they have a good player, that player usually leaves at some point for one of the big clubs. 

The guy that runs the club is a nice guy. I used to bump into him off and on at a couple of watering holes I stop by in Scottsdale/Phoenix.


----------



## crush

Desert Hound said:


> I always joke about Sandsharks.
> 
> The are a small club up in N. Scottsdale. They have a few decent teams here and there. They have the problem the other small clubs do. When they have a good player, that player usually leaves at some point for one of the big clubs.
> 
> The guy that runs the club is a nice guy. I used to bump into him off and on at a couple of watering holes I stop by in Scottsdale/Phoenix.


I get it.  So Sandsharks develop local goat and then the Royals or Rising snatch player?  Sounds like the same thing in socal.  Small club like Legends builds a local IE brand and then the Arsenals and Socal Blues of the world takes the young player.  The Gaffer and the Grey Fox were always at my dd games scouting the next best.


----------



## azsnowrider

tjinaz said:


> Problem is SCDS is losing skilled players at an alarming rate.  Look at the roster photos for RSL DA and DPL teams some of the girls are still wearing their orange SCDS shirts from the previous season.  RSL and Arsenal own the east valley and the north is split between Rising, RSL and SCDS.  Too many options and parents that won't stay unless their kids is sure to be rostered on a letter league team.  They used to have several players on National team but now they have all left for Rising or RSL.  SCDS has gotten stagnant and will need a major effort to get back to their pervious level, either that or merge with another club that has a big rec program.


Your basing your theory on roster photos? To start, in my opinion it's pretty dumb to use roster photos with another clubs shirt in them. It's clear what age group you are looking at. Read @ Happy9's post not once but twice. Those girls didn't make the team they wanted to make and RSL always has open arms. They need more kids to help pay for that bloated/expensive staff they have.  Why else are those poor kids walking billboards for chevy and others. 

FYI, kids are and have moved from RSL to Rising, from RSL to Arsenal, from Rising to RSL to Del Sol. That's the nature of the business, it happens and means nothing except a kid switched clubs.


----------



## azsnowrider

happy9 said:


> Why do you think they are losing talent at an alarming rate, especially for their top teams? They are basically intact from end of last season. While there are a few girls who have left over the last year, the  majority of the departures have been due to not making teams and parents taking their players elsewhere to make teams.  They've filled those gaps rather nicely by recruiting. Now, if you are referring tot he 04 max exodus a few years ago...then yes, that was alarming and that year group has never recovered.  You do have to wonder about their state league and DPL strategy.  With that said, those teams seem to have the most fun and players/parents seem happy to do what they do.
> 
> As far as YNTs are concerned, they sent 3 girls from the same age group to YNT camp this time last year and they are sending another one this year.  Their batch of seniors this year have power 5 pedigree.
> 
> Their approach is different to say the least.  They will not carry large rosters.  There's been room on rosters for each of the girls who left who weren't offered spots. Again, maybe not the best approach when talking business, but if you want playing time on arguably the best girls teams in the state, DS has a spot for you, if you can make the team. Certainly there is argument on which teams are better (07-02/03) between clubs.  DS will point to their relationship with coaches and YNT staff.  It's an effective one.
> 
> Will it win out in the end in terms of club viability - who knows.


Just to add something, some of those girls who split went from playing full games to not, and coming off the bench. Was it a good move for some? Maybe not

I think Del Sol is fine rolling out with just 11, no hassles with Subs. I don't think they sit around crying about rosters and play with what they have. If they really wanted to they could run with 17-18 player rosters, I think it's there philosophy to not do so. The only con is injurie's, and you only need 11 to play. Full games does a wonder to a kids fitness.....


----------



## surfertwins

SDSC Surf has boys ECNL, could a forth girls ECNL club for San Diego be in the works?


----------



## futboldad1

surfertwins said:


> SDSC Surf has boys ECNL, could a forth girls ECNL club for San Diego be in the works?


I would not rule that out given the depth of talent at San Diego Surf...... it would give an even number of teams for the divisions...... I have no knowledge of this from my many surf friends but if this happens I would guess that would be at least another year away given the DA-ECNL history of Surf.........


----------



## crush

futboldad1 said:


> I would not rule that out given the depth of talent at San Diego Surf...... it would give an even number of teams for the divisions...... I have no knowledge of this from my many surf friends but if this happens I would guess that would be at least another year away given the DA-ECNL history of Surf.........


So no rumor mill from third hand, just a thought in your mind bro?  I like that thought and it makes a lot of sense to this dad.  That SDSC almost beat our U12 team right before QF, where Kickers Beach team beat us in Pks.  Tough tough loss and well deserved victory by Beach FC.  Those were some fun times.  I still remember one of the top players from Beach getting sick and then coming back Willis Reed style and help keep their team in the game and beat us in PKs.  We were so knocking at the end and couldnt find the net.  Let's only talk soccer bro.


----------



## tjinaz

azsnowrider said:


> Just to add something, some of those girls who split went from playing full games to not, and coming off the bench. Was it a good move for some? Maybe not
> 
> I think Del Sol is fine rolling out with just 11, no hassles with Subs. I don't think they sit around crying about rosters and play with what they have. If they really wanted to they could run with 17-18 player rosters, I think it's there philosophy to not do so. The only con is injurie's, and you only need 11 to play. Full games does a wonder to a kids fitness.....


wow... well that is a different philosophy.  I suppose it could work if you built up to it but forwards and outside backs that run the field a lot would be at a pretty high risk of injury getting there and the team would be highly vulnerably as those tired defenders try to run down fresh forwards from the other team.


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> Lot's of movement in the desert.  I honestly can;t keep up.  I do love the drive and the games are quality.  My advise is to get together so we can have 4 teams in ECNL.  Royals are the best, right?  I only care about u17 btw and pure competition.  I'm tired.  Tired of confusion and division.


Royals have a good U17 team, as does Rising.  Del Sol's U17 team is not as talented as the Rising/Royals team.  A few years ago there was a scuff up amongst parents and staff, causing a rift in the team.  Tight race in the other age groups.  Hard to tell since ECNL and GA/DA have never had an official game with full rosters.   Rising ECNL and Del Sol 07s did play in an official capacity over the weekend with Del Sol eeking out a victory in PKs.  I heard it was a good game. I think the Royals 07 team is the class of the age group but I bet those games would be competitive.  

To your point, the addition of the Royals  U17 team would be a good addition to the the ECNL SW Conference.


----------



## happy9

azsnowrider said:


> Just to add something, some of those girls who split went from playing full games to not, and coming off the bench. Was it a good move for some? Maybe not
> 
> I think Del Sol is fine rolling out with just 11, no hassles with Subs. I don't think they sit around crying about rosters and play with what they have. If they really wanted to they could run with 17-18 player rosters, I think it's there philosophy to not do so. The only con is injurie's, and you only need 11 to play. Full games does a wonder to a kids fitness.....


It's how they roll.  12-14 field players 1 goalie, sometimes two but rarely.  They have one team with 2 goalies - both can play up with no loss in ability.  It maximizes playing time and fitness.  Injuries do occur and can certainly impact play.  They tend to have a core group of players in each age group that play up when needed - either for injuries or development.  Works out well for them and keeps parents happy in regards to playing time.  17-20 player rosters are great for injuries but not good for morale or flow of the game.


----------



## happy9

tjinaz said:


> wow... well that is a different philosophy.  I suppose it could work if you built up to it but forwards and outside backs that run the field a lot would be at a pretty high risk of injury getting there and the team would be highly vulnerably as those tired defenders try to run down fresh forwards from the other team.


They've done it for a while.   when their are injuries, it gets rough and the criticism flows.  When the injuries are minimal, playing time is aplenty and parents are happy.  Fitness lessens injuries but they do happen.  They spend plenty of time on the field for sure.  They also dedicate recovery time.  It's a delicate balance and not for everyone.


----------



## whatithink

happy9 said:


> Royals have a good U17 team, as does Rising.  Del Sol's U17 team is not as talented as the Rising/Royals team.  A few years ago there was a scuff up amongst parents and staff, causing a rift in the team.  Tight race in the other age groups.  Hard to tell since ECNL and GA/DA have never had an official game with full rosters.   Rising ECNL and Del Sol 07s did play in an official capacity over the weekend with Del Sol eeking out a victory in PKs.  I heard it was a good game. I think the Royals 07 team is the class of the age group but I bet those games would be competitive.
> 
> To your point, the addition of the Royals  U17 team would be a good addition to the the ECNL SW Conference.


wrt the 07 game at the weekend. They played to 1-1 in group play. They finished at a dead heat, same scores, points, GD etc. and so had a one off PK shootout to see who would play the final.

BTW, Rising had 3 players from NorCal playing for the weekend fwiw.

Royals 07 is probably the best, but take the 2 youngers out (08 & 09) and prob. not. The 09 is an absolute stud. She was the diff when they played DelSol 07s. Her brother is at Rising 08 MLS Next ... She was ranked in the 20s on the soccerwire top 100 to watch (or whatever) in late 2020.


----------



## Darbfig

whatithink said:


> wrt the 07 game at the weekend. They played to 1-1 in group play. They finished at a dead heat, same scores, points, GD etc. and so had a one off PK shootout to see who would play the final.
> 
> BTW, Rising had 3 players from NorCal playing for the weekend fwiw.
> 
> Royals 07 is probably the best, but take the 2 youngers out (08 & 09) and prob. not. The 09 is an absolute stud. She was the diff when they played DelSol 07s. Her brother is at Rising 08 MLS Next ... She was ranked in the 20s on the soccerwire top 100 to watch (or whatever) in late 2020.


they have an 09’ playing on their 07’ team? Permanently or just guesting? Yeah I would think she’s pretty damn good to play two years up... is she a good size? Not that you can’t be badass and be small but just curious because 2 yrs is quite a jump...


----------



## happy9

Darbfig said:


> they have an 09’ playing on their 07’ team? Permanently or just guesting? Yeah I would think she’s pretty damn good to play two years up... is she a good size? Not that you can’t be badass and be small but just curious because 2 yrs is quite a jump...


There is a DS 08 who routinely guests on the 05 and 06 team but plays permanently on the 07 team.  Special player.


----------



## happy9

whatithink said:


> wrt the 07 game at the weekend. They played to 1-1 in group play. They finished at a dead heat, same scores, points, GD etc. and so had a one off PK shootout to see who would play the final.
> 
> BTW, Rising had 3 players from NorCal playing for the weekend fwiw.
> 
> Royals 07 is probably the best, but take the 2 youngers out (08 & 09) and prob. not. The 09 is an absolute stud. She was the diff when they played DelSol 07s. Her brother is at Rising 08 MLS Next ... She was ranked in the 20s on the soccerwire top 100 to watch (or whatever) in late 2020.


RSL is showing pretty good depth.  The DS 07 team is starting to come together. 

Interesting that Rising had out of state players guest.  Del Sol is guilty of that as well, but usually with one of their partnership clubs from NM. As far as I know, there weren't any players from out of state playing for DS.  Goes to show how heated that rivalry remains.

There was hope that maybe their would be some head to head play during PDT this weekend but apparently not.


----------



## whatithink

Darbfig said:


> they have an 09’ playing on their 07’ team? Permanently or just guesting? Yeah I would think she’s pretty damn good to play two years up... is she a good size? Not that you can’t be badass and be small but just curious because 2 yrs is quite a jump...


Permanent and the best player on the team. She’s a good size, not crazy big or anything, but an excellent athlete. She could comfortably hang on their 06s


----------



## soccermom74

happy9 said:


> RSL is showing pretty good depth.  The DS 07 team is starting to come together.
> 
> Interesting that Rising had out of state players guest.  Del Sol is guilty of that as well, but usually with one of their partnership clubs from NM. As far as I know, there weren't any players from out of state playing for DS.  Goes to show how heated that rivalry remains.
> 
> There was hope that maybe their would be some head to head play during PDT this weekend but apparently not.


They had their 3 girls who play up all year at on the 06 team playing with them.  One of them scored the only goal in the 1-1 Rising game.  Another is an absolute stud who is a major difference maker on the field.  Plus Rising was without one of their top players (ACL), so I don't think you can use this game as a real indicator of who is the better team, since they both had guest players.


----------



## LASoccerMom

Late to the conversation and maybe I missed this...If Legends and Beach get ECNL is speculation will they drop GAL and move second team into ECRL slot? What about DPL?


----------



## crush

LASoccerMom said:


> Late to the conversation and maybe I missed this...If Legends and Beach get ECNL is speculation will they drop GAL and move second team into ECRL slot? What about DPL?


It's great hearing from all the mama bears on the forum.  Keep it up ladies, we need to hear from you.  I believe DPL folded.  I can't imagine GAL staying relevant without Beach & Legends.  I guess were all supposed to find out this week.  Soccer is back in socal and that makes my heart go Pitter & Patter


----------



## ToonArmy

LASoccerMom said:


> Late to the conversation and maybe I missed this...If Legends and Beach get ECNL is speculation will they drop GAL and move second team into ECRL slot? What about DPL?


I'm thinking they would do what Surf and Real So Cal did and go all in ECNL and the B teams would play ECRL and no longer play in GA and DPL. I guess So Cal Blues did the same they never had DPL since they had DA and ECNL but now they are all in ECNL and do not play in the GA. 

Beach and Legends 3rd teams most likely are the ones playing in DPL this year and I would guess those teams would go back in SCDSL Flights possibly Discovery.


----------



## crush

I'm getting super excited for the 2021/2022 season everyone.  It feels like we will have one heck of a season of ganas coming soon.  So many players not committed and more and more coaches wanting to see players live and in person.  This is going to make for some serious competition and that's all a true competitor could ask for.  Big news about to hit on expansion?  Will we see player movement again so one can be in a good spot to be seen? SW Conference will be the conference to be in.


----------



## Surf Zombie

I can’t image ECNL is admitting any clubs and letting them keep a connection with GA & DPL.

I’m not sure if any clubs around the country have a foot in both?


----------



## crush

Surf Zombie said:


> I can’t image ECNL is admitting any clubs and letting them keep a connection with GA & DPL.
> 
> I’m not sure if any clubs around the country have a foot in both?


100% bro.  In fact, it will be more like were letting you in despite the stunt you pulled.  Were doing this to bring peace to socal and to stop all the poaching from clubs.  It really was a joke what we all had to endure for the last four years all because.  Let's all put the past behind and move forward to better days.  We need a system based on scoreboard and merit.  No more favors with flavors anymore.  We all know how the game was played in the past.


----------



## crush

The Stars are ready!!!!


----------



## happy9

soccermom74 said:


> They had their 3 girls who play up all year at on the 06 team playing with them.  One of them scored the only goal in the 1-1 Rising game.  Another is an absolute stud who is a major difference maker on the field.  Plus Rising was without one of their top players (ACL), so I don't think you can use this game as a real indicator of who is the better team, since they both had guest players.


Sounds like it was a good game, we need more of them - it's great for AZ girls soccer.  I really don't care who wins or loses, just great to see good soccer at this age.  You could play this game 4 times and you will likely come out 2-2.  That's a good thing.  It's very fitting that it went to PKs to decide the outcome.  

We get so caught up in who's better, who wins that we don't stop and just watch the game and enjoy good soccer.  The 3 DS girls who normally play on the 06 team each played a half.  And yes, they are impact players, it's why they play up.  Rising had 3 out of state players from NORCAL, great opportunity for them to play, not much playing going on in CA.  Game touches at this age is so important.  The more the better.  I hope the injured Rising player heals effectively and is out on the pitch soon.

Why is it that parents are more invested in winning and losing than the kids?


----------



## Footy30

happy9 said:


> Sounds like it was a good game, we need more of them - it's great for AZ girls soccer.  I really don't care who wins or loses, just great to see good soccer at this age.  You could play this game 4 times and you will likely come out 2-2.  That's a good thing.  It's very fitting that it went to PKs to decide the outcome.
> 
> We get so caught up in who's better, who wins that we don't stop and just watch the game and enjoy good soccer.  The 3 DS girls who normally play on the 06 team each played a half.  And yes, they are impact players, it's why they play up.  Rising had 3 out of state players from NORCAL, great opportunity for them to play, not much playing going on in CA.  Game touches at this age is so important.  The more the better.  I hope the injured Rising player heals effectively and is out on the pitch soon.
> 
> *Why is it that parents are more invested in winning and losing than the kids?
> *




Because as much as parents love their kids they can sometimes ruin it for them and everyone else around them... for a number of reasons (*not really* *understanding the game*, living vicariously through them, etc. the list can go on)


----------



## Messi>CR7

Surf Zombie said:


> I can’t image ECNL is admitting any clubs and letting them keep a connection with GA & DPL.
> 
> I’m not sure if any clubs around the country have a foot in both?


Classic prisoner's dilemma.  If the GA clubs, particularly those in SoCal, all band together (for example a 3 to 5 year commitment to GA), perhaps they can develop it into an excellent platform to give ECNL some much needed competition.  But one can safely assume each GA club will happily accept an entrance into ECNL and abandon GA/DPL accordingly.


----------



## crush

Messi>CR7 said:


> Classic prisoner's dilemma.  If the GA clubs, particularly those in SoCal, all band together (for example a 3 to 5 year commitment to GA), perhaps they can develop it into an excellent platform to give ECNL some much needed competition.  But one can safely assume each GA club will happily accept an entrance into ECNL and abandon GA/DPL accordingly.


So true bro, just like clubs abandon ECNL for GDA four years ago.  It was a true prisoner's dilemma for the clubs, parents and kids.  Talk about a pressure cooker for all parties involved except of course, those small few who got to enjoy all the perks for picking GDA and not ECNL.  It's all water under da bridge and time to look ahead to fair & transparent competition Messi.  That's what life is all about.


----------



## happy9

Footy30 said:


> *Because as much as parents love their kids they can sometimes ruin it for them and everyone else around them*... for a number of reasons (*not really* *understanding the game*, living vicariously through them, etc. the list can go on)


Yep, it's why I've been social distancing at games since before social distancing was cool.


----------



## tjinaz

Just heard RSL-AZ is dropping GA/DPL and going ECNL/ECRL and Arizona Arsenal is launching ECRL on the girls side.

Props to Desert Hound ... he called it.  

Wow... never thought RSL would drop GA, but honestly they would have a big drop in quality if they tried to do 4 teams per age level.


----------



## Desert Hound

tjinaz said:


> Just heard RSL-AZ is dropping GA/DPL and going ECNL/ECRL and Arizona Arsenal is launching ECRL on the girls side.
> 
> Props to Desert Hound ... he called it.
> 
> Wow... never thought RSL would drop GA, but honestly they would have a big drop in quality if they tried to do 4 teams per age level.


Well this year Royals rolled through a very weak GA SW division. 

GA SW just got a lot weaker. 

Now we await word on Beach and Legends?


----------



## Surf Zombie

Desert Hound said:


> Well this year Royals rolled through a very weak GA SW division.
> 
> GA SW just got a lot weaker.
> 
> Now we await word on Beach and Legends?


So is it just the one AZ club coming in? If Beach & Legends are in I bet it will be 18 total, not 17 in the SW, and then potentially split in half.


----------



## Desert Hound

Surf Zombie said:


> So is it just the one AZ club coming in? If Beach & Legends are in I bet it will be 18 total, not 17 in the SW, and then potentially split in half.


No word yet on del Sol. 

I have been thinking for a long time when ECNL adds to SW they split it into a north and south so to speak.


----------



## crush

tjinaz said:


> Just heard RSL-AZ is dropping GA/DPL and going ECNL/ECRL and Arizona Arsenal is launching ECRL on the girls side.
> 
> Props to Desert Hound ... he called it.
> 
> Wow... never thought RSL would drop GA, but honestly they would have a big drop in quality if they tried to do 4 teams per age level.


Hound Dog knows his stuff.  A true legend who knows the landscape like none other.  Happy is on the know as well so good peeps to gather gossip and truth.  DH hooked me up with a romantic get away place to take my wife on a hot date.  Thanks pal   We still have our bet on the table and I added a free appetizer to the winner as well.  So two drinks and free nachos.  I still owe Eagle.


----------



## crush

Desert Hound said:


> Well this year Royals rolled through a very weak GA SW division.
> 
> GA SW just got a lot weaker.
> 
> Now we await word on Beach and Legends?


Kicker?  Tech?  Come on fellas, give up the goods?  We need to talk soccer and this is great stuff to try and figure out.


----------



## Kicker4Life

crush said:


> Kicker?  Tech?  Come on fellas, give up the goods?  We need to talk soccer and this is great stuff to try and figure out.


Waiting to see an Official Word from ECNL, that’s when we’ll all know.


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> Waiting to see an Official Word from ECNL, that’s when we’ll all know.


So dont count eggs until hatched?  I want this finished and done with once and for all.  This would make next season epic, right?


----------



## futboldad1

Desert Hound said:


> Well this year Royals rolled through a very weak GA SW division.
> 
> GA SW just got a lot weaker.
> 
> Now we await word on Beach and Legends?


Word is coming real soon there my brother, but ECNL will be the ones to make it..... it will be interesting to see if the SW Conference splits in to divisions of 8 and 9 or they look to add one more for the 2021-2022 season to make it an even 9 and 9......Del Sol makes geographical sense giving 4 Arizona clubs but SD Surf have enough talent for two strong teams so we will have to see.............


----------



## VegasParent

Desert Hound said:


> *Well this year Royals rolled through a very weak GA SW division.*
> 
> GA SW just got a lot weaker.
> 
> Now we await word on Beach and Legends?


Not in every age group


----------



## Desert Hound

VegasParent said:


> Not in every age group


This was as of early Nov. With the exception of the U15 age group, Royals have completely dominated the SW GA. 

_(also to put this in perspective...last year in the DA the club had an overall losing record and giving up a ton more goals vs goals scored. It highlights how weak the GA SW division is/was this year). You don't magically start rolling everyone unless your competition went elsewhere...in this case ECNL._

Total Record Across Age Groups
Royals 32-6-4
GF/GA 126/35

*GA records*

Win/loss/draw

U13
Royals 6-0-1
GF/GA 16/4

U14
Royals 6-0-1
GF/GA 26/4

U15
Royals 3-4-0
GF/GA 11/10

U16
Royals 5-0-2
GF/GA 17/4

U17
Royals 7-0-0
GF/GA 35/4

U19
Royals 5-2-0
GF/GA 21/9

Total Record Across Age Groups
Royals 32-6-4
GF/GA 126/35


----------



## Kicker4Life

Desert Hound said:


> This was as of early Nov. With the exception of the U15 age group, Royals have completely dominated the SW GA.
> 
> _(also to put this in perspective...last year in the DA the club had an overall losing record and giving up a ton more goals vs goals scored. It highlights how weak the GA SW division is/was this year). You don't magically start rolling everyone unless your competition went elsewhere...in this case ECNL._
> 
> Total Record Across Age Groups
> Royals 32-6-4
> GF/GA 126/35
> 
> *GA records*
> 
> Win/loss/draw
> 
> U13
> Royals 6-0-1
> GF/GA 16/4
> 
> U14
> Royals 6-0-1
> GF/GA 26/4
> 
> U15
> Royals 3-4-0
> GF/GA 11/10
> 
> U16
> Royals 5-0-2
> GF/GA 17/4
> 
> U17
> Royals 7-0-0
> GF/GA 35/4
> 
> U19
> Royals 5-2-0
> GF/GA 21/9
> 
> Total Record Across Age Groups
> Royals 32-6-4
> GF/GA 126/35


Lots of SoCal GA teams didn’t even get a game in so there is that to consider as well.


----------



## VegasParent

Desert Hound said:


> This was as of early Nov. With the exception of the U15 age group, Royals have completely dominated the SW GA.
> 
> _(also to put this in perspective...last year in the DA the club had an overall losing record and giving up a ton more goals vs goals scored. It highlights how weak the GA SW division is/was this year). You don't magically start rolling everyone unless your competition went elsewhere...in this case ECNL._
> 
> Total Record Across Age Groups
> Royals 32-6-4
> GF/GA 126/35
> 
> *GA records*
> 
> Win/loss/draw
> 
> U13
> Royals 6-0-1
> GF/GA 16/4
> 
> U14
> Royals 6-0-1
> GF/GA 26/4
> 
> U15
> Royals 3-4-0
> GF/GA 11/10
> 
> U16
> Royals 5-0-2
> GF/GA 17/4
> 
> U17
> Royals 7-0-0
> GF/GA 35/4
> 
> U19
> Royals 5-2-0
> GF/GA 21/9
> 
> Total Record Across Age Groups
> Royals 32-6-4
> GF/GA 126/35


The 06 age group is the one I am talking about. There is no denying the competition in GA SW is not up to what the DA was or where ECNL is now.


----------



## Desert Hound

Kicker4Life said:


> Lots of SoCal GA teams didn’t even get a game in so there is that to consider as well.


Fully agree. But from what we did see, there wasn't much competition. Screwy year.


----------



## tjinaz

until now the ECNL teams in PHX have been fairly isolated.  Rising in the North and Arsenal in the East.  With RSL coming in having a presence in both areas wonder if we will see kids swapping clubs with regularity.


----------



## Surf Zombie

tjinaz said:


> until now the ECNL teams in PHX have been fairly isolated.  Rising in the North and Arsenal in the East.  With RSL coming in having a presence in both areas wonder if we will see kids swapping clubs with regularity.


Curious, did you hear about your club’s admission through the grapevine or did the club announce it already?


----------



## Desert Hound

Surf Zombie said:


> Curious, did you hear about your club’s admission through the grapevine or did the club announce it already?


They emailed the parents.


----------



## Desert Hound

tjinaz said:


> until now the ECNL teams in PHX have been fairly isolated.  Rising in the North and Arsenal in the East.  With RSL coming in having a presence in both areas wonder if we will see kids swapping clubs with regularity.


It has already been happening for some time. 

There tends to be more flow between RSL and Rising. Not much flow between Rising and Arsenal. And a little between Arsenal and RSL.


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> Well this year Royals rolled through a very weak GA SW division.
> 
> GA SW just got a lot weaker.
> 
> Now we await word on Beach and Legends?


Yes it did.  Let's see if the GA adds any of the clubs that have applied for membership in the SW.  They've been announcing new clubs left and right, wonder if they've been waiting for RSL's announcement.


----------



## happy9

tjinaz said:


> Just heard RSL-AZ is dropping GA/DPL and going ECNL/ECRL and Arizona Arsenal is launching ECRL on the girls side.
> 
> Props to Desert Hound ... he called it.
> 
> Wow... never thought RSL would drop GA, but honestly they would have a big drop in quality if they tried to do 4 teams per age level.


The writing was on the wall - consolidate platforms, only makes sense.


----------



## tjinaz

Surf Zombie said:


> Curious, did you hear about your club’s admission through the grapevine or did the club announce it already?


Its an imminent rumor among the parents.  Somebody heard it from someone in the know. That sort of thing.  Anyone hear about Arizona Arsenal doing ECRL for girls?  There was supposedly a tweet about this?


----------



## happy9

futboldad1 said:


> Word is coming real soon there my brother, but ECNL will be the ones to make it..... it will be interesting to see if the SW Conference splits in to divisions of 8 and 9 or they look to add one more for the 2021-2022 season to make it an even 9 and 9......Del Sol makes geographical sense giving 4 Arizona clubs but SD Surf have enough talent for two strong teams so we will have to see.............


I don't think Del Sol goes.  I have zero "real" insider info. They tend to go against the grain, for their own reasons.  They obviously have the talent to play and compete in ECNL, arguably the best Girls club in AZ (we can nitpick age groups but hard to argue they aren't top 1 or 2 in every age group except the 04s). 

If they don't go then life may get interesting at the end of the summer.  Will parents stay with coaches or will parents freak out about "platform" and leave coaches (which is Del Sol's strength)


----------



## rainbow_unicorn

https://www.ecnlgirls.com/2021/02/10/ecnl-girls-announce-six-new-clubs-for-ground-breaking-2021-22-season/


----------



## Footy30

You all might want to take a look at the ECNL website....  if you're interested in formal announcements. 
Congrats and welcome to the new teams..


----------



## Desert Hound

happy9 said:


> If they don't go then life may get interesting at the end of the summer. Will parents stay with coaches or will parents freak out about "platform" and leave coaches (which is Del Sol's strength)


If they stay GA their issues come at a later date. Most of the current players will stay. It is as you go down a couple of years where they will have issues. 

The reality and perception will be that ECNL is the platform to be on the girls side. Parents whose kids are aging in will gravitate towards the top league. GA will be the 2nd option after ECNL in the Phx area.


----------



## Desert Hound

Well the SW ECNL division just got a lot better. 

The SW GA division is gutted.


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> If they stay GA their issues come at a later date. Most of the current players will stay. It is as you go down a couple of years where they will have issues.
> 
> The reality and perception will be that ECNL is the platform to be on the girls side. Parents whose kids are aging in will gravitate towards the top league. GA will be the 2nd option after ECNL in the Phx area.


Don't disagree at all, especially for parents who prioritize platform over coaching.  It's an interesting discussion to say the least.  Even talking to College coaches, they are split on coaching VS platform.  Many prominent coaches stress coaching over platform.  Parents drive the train.  

I'm sure Del Sol has their prepared statements ready to go to reassure parents that their position within the YNT and Power 5 community will not diminish.  Game on.


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> Well the SW ECNL division just got a lot better.
> 
> The SW GA division is gutted.


Oh the drama!! ha.


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> Well the SW ECNL division just got a lot better.
> 
> The SW GA division is gutted.


Timely announcement by the way - just in time for the GA's first showcase event this weekend.  ECNL has stepped up their PR game


----------



## LASoccerMom

Beach has posted to Twitter that they are joining ECNL


----------



## Surf Zombie

"We are thrilled to announce our girls program will enter into the Elite Clubs National League starting next season! The ECNL has risen to become the highest level of competition and player development in the United States. We are looking forward to it!"


----------



## crush

@Kicker4Life Congrats bro.  I mean this 100%.  This should have happen 5 years ago.  I'm happy that the adults are doing what's best for the players and customers, the parents.  Next season is going to be amazing.  I make no predictions except to say it will be a huge accomplishment for the winner of the oldest division next year, 03/04 again.


----------



## crush

Surf Zombie said:


> "We are thrilled to announce our girls program will enter into the Elite Clubs National League starting next season! The ECNL has risen to become the highest level of competition and player development in the United States. We are looking forward to it!"


Game, set and match!!!


----------



## crush

Is Top Hat joing too?


----------



## Surf Zombie

ECNL GIRLS ANNOUNCE SIX NEW CLUBS FOR GROUND-BREAKING 2021-22 SEASON
					

RICHMOND, VA (February 10, 2021) – The ECNL Girls is thrilled to announce that Beach FC, Legends FC, Oklahoma Energy FC, Sporting Blue Valley, Sporting Iowa, and Utah Royals FC - Arizona will join the country’s top youth female league for the 2021-22 season. The addition of six new clubs will...




					www.ecnlgirls.com
				




Wow, Six new clubs at once!


----------



## crush

I'm so happy for this news.  I really mean that.  Also, my dd just texted me saying, "dad, we can do both HS & club."  Choice is beautiful and so is freedom.  God bless you all!!


----------



## Messi>CR7

Wow.  Congrats to girls at Legends and Beach who stayed with the team/club.


----------



## Scott m Shurson

crush said:


> I'm so happy for this news.  I really mean that.  Also, my dd just texted me saying, "dad, we can do both HS & club."  Choice is beautiful and so is freedom.  God bless you all!!


Yep, everyone but football, right?


----------



## Scott m Shurson

crush said:


> I'm so happy for this news.  I really mean that.  Also, my dd just texted me saying, "dad, we can do both HS & club."  Choice is beautiful and so is freedom.  God bless you all!!


Emperor Of The Ladyboys to shit on this in 3... 2... 1...


----------



## EOTL

Scott m Shurson said:


> Emperor Of The Ladyboys to shit on this in 3... 2... 1...


Maybe these ECNL additions will give you more bridges to burn for your daughter.


----------



## EOTL

Scott m Shurson said:


> Emperor Of The Ladyboys to shit on this in 3... 2... 1...


Shoot, I almost forgot to remind you that you’re transphobic.


----------



## Speed

Desert Hound said:


> Well the SW ECNL division just got a lot better.
> 
> The SW GA division is gutted.


is there really a SW division? I agree with your statement pre-covid but what the heck are we gonna do here in CA??


----------



## gotothebushes

ECNL TEXAS SHOWCASE might be cancelled due to weather?


----------



## LASTMAN14

gotothebushes said:


> ECNL TEXAS SHOWCASE might be cancelled due to weather?


It's good Newsome didn't let you go.  At least he's done one thing accidently right.


----------



## LASTMAN14

rainbow_unicorn said:


> https://www.ecnlgirls.com/2021/02/10/ecnl-girls-announce-six-new-clubs-for-ground-breaking-2021-22-season/


Congrats to Beach. (It's weird saying that  ) At least I only will be driving one daughter to OC.


----------



## crush

LASTMAN14 said:


> Congrats to Beach. (It's weird saying that  ) At least I only will be driving one daughter to OC.


No more stealing players now from other clubs, moo   I got the old, "we have ecnl and they dont pitch"  I never fell for it though.  I did go for the GDA kool aid and I was first in line to get my free servings.  I'm super glad were all together in a top league.  It's all I ever asked for Lastman and now I get it.  Play ball!!


----------



## Kicker4Life

Scott m Shurson said:


> Yep, everyone but football, right?


Did Club Football exist pre-Covid?


----------



## Scott m Shurson

EOTL said:


> Maybe these ECNL additions will give you more bridges to burn for your daughter.


Nah, you already looked me up, stalker.  You know I’m in NorCal.  

Loser.


----------



## Speed

EOTL said:


> Maybe these ECNL additions will give you more bridges to burn for your daughter.


why does everything you do HAVE TO INCITE A FIGHT AND ARG


Kicker4Life said:


> Did Club Football exist pre-Covid?


nope


----------



## Scott m Shurson

Kicker4Life said:


> Did Club Football exist pre-Covid?


Does it exist now?


----------



## Speed

Scott m Shurson said:


> Does it exist now?


yep


----------



## Kicker4Life

Scott m Shurson said:


> Does it exist now?


But only because of the Rona and how it shut down HS Football right?  Which would explain why CIF may be looking to protect those players.


----------



## GeekKid

Glad to see the additions and well-deserved entry of Beach and Legends back in the fold. Congrats @Kicker4Life and to all. Slight criticism can't see having three Oklahoma teams in the Texas division. Not a lot of talent at most age levels in either current club. Not sure how much further dissolution the clubs can take up there.


----------



## GeekKid

Scott m Shurson said:


> Emperor Of The Ladyboys to shit on this in 3... 2... 1...


@Scott m Shurson , you sir are a funny bastard!


----------



## Scott m Shurson

EOTL said:


> Shoot, I almost forgot to remind you that you’re transphobic.


Glad you did it in this profile and not one of the others!

That would be so confusing.


----------



## Technician72

This will be the first time in a long time that the playing field is "level" in the Inland Empire footprint for SoCal.

Having watched my DDs and others go through it, the "perception" plays a big part in drawing in primarily the youngers and those olders who aren't as well versed in the recruiting process. I can tell you that there has been so many jumping from one ship to another and back again in our area that it's laughable.

"Arsenal has ECNL and we compete for the true National Championship, Legends is the USYS National Championship, and they don't play teams in our league..."

"Legends has DA and that's the one pathway to the USYNT and ultimately the "list'..."

"Legends lost DA, and now ECNL is back at the top so you better come back over to Arsenal..."

For those who can't see the writing on the wall, these sales people never once mention coaching, development, and what they'll invest in your kid. If you don't "know" already, there is so much a player can do and must do on their own to work the process and own their recruiting and work towards their goals. Directors / Coaches / Platform make it super convenient but it isn't the be all end all. Bottom line focus on the little things that you and your player can control and above all else be an advocate for your kid, not only athletically but on a personal level as well. As my oldest ages out after the next 2021-22 season, I can honestly say that I'm looking forward to this being over and her playing at the next level (knock on wood). We learned lessons along the way and would have done a lot differently over the years but were fortunate to keep it fun and competitive and have memories that no one can ever take away. On the flip side my youngest was a casualty of the bad side of this club soccer machine, and owning my part aside, I'm glad she was able to pivot to something else less toxic for her where she can carry the good skills / qualities / memories and apply those to another arena.

Best of luck to everyone along the way, learn from the ones that have gone through the process and ease up on the kids. Trust me, if they love sports they put enough pressure on themselves and don't need you in their ear half the time. Love them, support them, and take them out for ice cream and talk about anything else but the soccer.

If you want to hear some war stories send me a DM and we can get real ugly.


----------



## happy9

Technician72 said:


> This will be the first time in a long time that the playing field is "level" in the Inland Empire footprint for SoCal.
> 
> Having watched my DDs and others go through it, the "perception" plays a big part in drawing in primarily the youngers and those olders who aren't as well versed in the recruiting process. I can tell you that there has been so many jumping from one ship to another and back again in our area that it's laughable.
> 
> "Arsenal has ECNL and we compete for the true National Championship, Legends is the USYS National Championship, and they don't play teams in our league..."
> 
> "Legends has DA and that's the one pathway to the USYNT and ultimately the "list'..."
> 
> "Legends lost DA, and now ECNL is back at the top so you better come back over to Arsenal..."
> 
> For those who can't see the writing on the wall, these sales people never once mention coaching, development, and what they'll invest in your kid. If you don't "know" already, there is so much a player can do and must do on their own to work the process and own their recruiting and work towards their goals. Directors / Coaches / Platform make it super convenient but it isn't the be all end all. Bottom line focus on the little things that you and your player can control and above all else be an advocate for your kid, not only athletically but on a personal level as well. As my oldest ages out after the next 2021-22 season, I can honestly say that I'm looking forward to this being over and her playing at the next level (knock on wood). We learned lessons along the way and would have done a lot differently over the years but were fortunate to keep it fun and competitive and have memories that no one can ever take away. On the flip side my youngest was a casualty of the bad side of this club soccer machine, and owning my part aside, I'm glad she was able to pivot to something else less toxic for her where she can carry the good skills / qualities / memories and apply those to another arena.
> 
> Best of luck to everyone along the way, learn from the ones that have gone through the process and ease up on the kids. Trust me, if they love sports they put enough pressure on themselves and don't need you in their ear half the time. Love them, support them, and take them out for ice cream and talk about anything else but the soccer.
> 
> If you want to hear some war stories send me a DM and we can get real ugly.


This is a very good and insightful post.  Player platforms are a necessary evil.  If you are lucky, you find a coach/club/environment that rises above the drama that ECNL/DA/GA/MLS, blah blah is and gets your kid ready for the next level (if there is a next level).   Player platforms also become overcrowded but that is to be expected and the way they are designed --$$$$.

Now on to the business of getting CA back into the youth soccer scene...


----------



## crush

Technician72 said:


> This will be the first time in a long time that the playing field is "level" in the Inland Empire footprint for SoCal.
> 
> Having watched my DDs and others go through it, the "perception" plays a big part in drawing in primarily the youngers and those olders who aren't as well versed in the recruiting process. I can tell you that there has been so many jumping from one ship to another and back again in our area that it's laughable.
> 
> "Arsenal has ECNL and we compete for the true National Championship, Legends is the USYS National Championship, and they don't play teams in our league..."
> 
> "Legends has DA and that's the one pathway to the USYNT and ultimately the "list'..."
> 
> "Legends lost DA, and now ECNL is back at the top so you better come back over to Arsenal..."
> 
> For those who can't see the writing on the wall, these sales people never once mention coaching, development, and what they'll invest in your kid. If you don't "know" already, there is so much a player can do and must do on their own to work the process and own their recruiting and work towards their goals. Directors / Coaches / Platform make it super convenient but it isn't the be all end all. Bottom line focus on the little things that you and your player can control and above all else be an advocate for your kid, not only athletically but on a personal level as well. As my oldest ages out after the next 2021-22 season, I can honestly say that I'm looking forward to this being over and her playing at the next level (knock on wood). We learned lessons along the way and would have done a lot differently over the years but were fortunate to keep it fun and competitive and have memories that no one can ever take away. On the flip side my youngest was a casualty of the bad side of this club soccer machine, and owning my part aside, I'm glad she was able to pivot to something else less toxic for her where she can carry the good skills / qualities / memories and apply those to another arena.
> 
> Best of luck to everyone along the way, learn from the ones that have gone through the process and ease up on the kids. Trust me, if they love sports they put enough pressure on themselves and don't need you in their ear half the time. Love them, support them, and take them out for ice cream and talk about anything else but the soccer.
> 
> If you want to hear some war stories send me a DM and we can get real ugly.


Time for some specs tech for next season?


----------



## Technician72

happy9 said:


> Player platforms are a necessary evil.


So true, trick is knowing how to navigate those waters because they can be rough to say the least.


----------



## Technician72

crush said:


> Time for some specs tech for next season?


I'm going to sync up the roll calls one last time across the age groups to keep them alive for the next generation. Let me look at what the kid does going into next season and it's a possibility for the 04s. I'll have to solicit some notes from the posters, but I can whip it to together and build some narrative and craft the stories from the details.


----------



## crush

Technician72 said:


> I'm going to sync up the roll calls one last time across the age groups to keep them alive for the next generation. Let me look at what the kid does going into next season and it's a possibility for the 04s. I'll have to solicit some notes from the posters, but I can whip it to together and build some narrative and craft the stories from the details.


03/04 next year Tech.  Just like the old days.  I would be honored to help you with any info I might have.  Injuries have taken a few out.  I have no idea what team is #1, but I bet Beach and Legends will have a say.  This is going to be one insane league bro.  I will not be chirping out any predictions. Show your skills to the young bucks Tech.  It's giving back to the game.


----------



## Desert Hound

happy9 said:


> Even talking to College coaches, they are split on coaching VS platform.


That assumes the platforms are equal. The look very closely at the level of play. I would say this yr GA in the SW has been less than ECNL in the SW. With Royals, Beach and Legends gone next yr, the quality suffers. 

Royals were winning a lot of games by big margins this yr. They won't be next yr. Likely they drop back to middle of the pack.

Quality of competition is an important factor coaches look at as it relates to who they recruit.


----------



## Kicker4Life

GeekKid said:


> Glad to see the additions and well-deserved entry of Beach and Legends back in the fold. Congrats @Kicker4Life and to all. Slight criticism can't see having three Oklahoma teams in the Texas division. Not a lot of talent at most age levels in either current club. Not sure how much further dissolution the clubs can take up there.


Thank you!  Looking forward to more Beach v Solar match ups!


----------



## Messi>CR7

Desert Hound said:


> That assumes the platforms are equal. The look very closely at the level of play. I would say this yr GA in the SW has been less than ECNL in the SW. With Royals, Beach and Legends gone next yr, the quality suffers.
> 
> Royals were winning a lot of games by big margins this yr. They won't be next yr. Likely they drop back to middle of the pack.
> 
> Quality of competition is an important factor coaches look at as it relates to who they recruit.


I would like to hear some perspectives from parents that have gone through the recruiting process.  If your kid is a true 1% goat, this conversation is not for you.    Let's say the choices for my kid are:
1) Bench player on a solid ECNL SW team
2) Starter on a bottom 3 ECNL SW team
3) Starter on a solid ECRL team that does Surf Cup and other tourneys

#1 is a usually a no go as my kid (and most kids) prefers playing over sitting.  But from the recruiting perspective, how important is it to be on one of the better teams?  Would #3 be better than #2 if team#2 is not very competitive?  TIA.


----------



## SoccerLocker

2 Qs to ask: A. Is your DD having fun?  B. Is she improving?  If the answer is yes to both: She is in the right spot.

Majority of movement is #1 ---> #2.  I have seen many a coach watch other teams games to ID bench players and "recruit" them.

Preference depends on your coach and kid.  Most choose #2 b/c they want to play, but if the coaching fit is good and they are committed to developing your player #1 is better - IMO.


----------



## crush

Messi>CR7 said:


> I would like to hear some perspectives from parents that have gone through the recruiting process.  If your kid is a true 1% goat, this conversation is not for you.    Let's say the choices for my kid are:
> 1) Bench player on a solid ECNL SW team
> 2) Starter on a bottom 3 ECNL SW team
> 3) Starter on a solid ECRL team that does Surf Cup and other tourneys
> 
> #1 is a usually a no go as my kid (and most kids) prefers playing over sitting.  But from the recruiting perspective, how important is it to be on one of the better teams?  Would #3 be better than #2 if team#2 is not very competitive?  TIA.


#2, hands down.


----------



## dad4

SoccerLocker said:


> 2 Qs to ask: A. Is your DD having fun?  B. Is she improving?  If the answer is yes to both: She is in the right spot.
> 
> Majority of movement is #1 ---> #2.  I have seen many a coach watch games to try and poach bench players from other teams.
> 
> Preference depends on your coach and kid.  Most choose #2 b/c they want to play, but if the coaching fit is good and they are committed to developing your player #1 is better - IMO.


Life is to be lived.  We aren't talking about multi million dollar pro deals on the line.    You really want to spend all of HS on the bench?

If you love to play soccer, find a team where you can do that.


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> Life is to be lived.  We aren't talking about multi million dollar pro deals on the line.   * You really want to spend all of HS on the bench?*
> 
> If you love to play soccer, find a team where you can do that.


Never ever.  My Sr year I had to move to Troy.  Baseball country.  Anyway, returning all league second baseman who could hit for average and power, was not going to lose his spot to some cocky surfer from Laguna.  I had him on speed, throwing and hustle defense.  He had me on offense and that wins.  I was brought in to run for him or play defense in the last inning.  Dad, I quit before league because of my pride.  I thought I was better and if given a chance, I would have helped the team make CIF.


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> That assumes the platforms are equal. The look very closely at the level of play. I would say this yr GA in the SW has been less than ECNL in the SW. With Royals, Beach and Legends gone next yr, the quality suffers.
> 
> Royals were winning a lot of games by big margins this yr. They won't be next yr. Likely they drop back to middle of the pack.
> 
> Quality of competition is an important factor coaches look at as it relates to who they recruit.


You are falling into what the platforms want you to believe.  I know enough power 5 coaches and others conferences who don't put as much weight on the platform.  The platform matters sure, but it's not they only thing they look at and it's not weighted as much as you think.  Find a coach and an environment that provides development as a player, a person, and student.  The club and coaches need to have connections and relationships.  It's a balance.  Parents will chase platforms because that's what the platforms want you to do.

Coaches scout  large tournament across the country across multiple player platforms.  And yes, CA is the nexus of girls soccer and ECNL will be considered the top league by everyone and parents will pay (for ECNL and GA).

I think Royals will be slotted back to where they were when they were in the DA, lower third for most age groups.  Their 04s were their best team in the DA, placing 8th overall and didn't play the back end of the season against the strongest competition.  They likely would have been at the bottom of the pack.   I don't see how they'll be better than that, maybe a bit worse.  Their 07s could  cause a rucus.  

Del Sol would have been the better talent pick.  Their 05s and 02/03s were in the top half of the DA SW conference.  Their 07s are just as good on any given day against the Royals 07s, and the 06s are the best 06 team in the state.  Del Sols weakness is their numbers.

We will see if Del Sol parents start to panic or if they trust the direction of the club.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn

Messi>CR7 said:


> I would like to hear some perspectives from parents that have gone through the recruiting process.  If your kid is a true 1% goat, this conversation is not for you.    Let's say the choices for my kid are:
> 1) Bench player on a solid ECNL SW team
> 2) Starter on a bottom 3 ECNL SW team
> 3) Starter on a solid ECRL team that does Surf Cup and other tourneys
> 
> #1 is a usually a no go as my kid (and most kids) prefers playing over sitting.  But from the recruiting perspective, how important is it to be on one of the better teams?  Would #3 be better than #2 if team#2 is not very competitive?  TIA.


2) Starter on bottom 3 ECNL SW team.  Benefit from more playing time and playing tougher competition at same time.


----------



## GT45

happy9 said:


> You are falling into what the platforms want you to believe.  I know enough power 5 coaches and others conferences who don't put as much weight on the platform.  The platform matters sure, but it's not they only thing they look at and it's not weighted as much as you think.  Find a coach and an environment that provides development as a player, a person, and student.  The club and coaches need to have connections and relationships.  It's a balance.  Parents will chase platforms because that's what the platforms want you to do.
> 
> Coaches scout  large tournament across the country across multiple player platforms.  And yes, CA is the nexus of girls soccer and ECNL will be considered the top league by everyone and parents will pay (for ECNL and GA).
> 
> I think Royals will be slotted back to where they were when they were in the DA, lower third for most age groups.  Their 04s were their best team in the DA, placing 8th overall and didn't play the back end of the season against the strongest competition.  They likely would have been at the bottom of the pack.   I don't see how they'll be better than that, maybe a bit worse.  Their 07s could  cause a rucus.
> 
> Del Sol would have been the better talent pick.  Their 05s and 02/03s were in the top half of the DA SW conference.  Their 07s are just as good on any given day against the Royals 07s, and the 06s are the best 06 team in the state.  Del Sols weakness is their numbers.
> 
> We will see if Del Sol parents start to panic or if they trust the direction of the club.


Platform matters because of the competition. You get better by playing competitive games, not by walking over lesser opponents in 7-0 games. So if a kid is in the upper tier they should be competing with and against similarly skilled players.


----------



## Desert Hound

happy9 said:


> We will see if Del Sol parents start to panic or if they trust the direction of the club


I don't think there will be a mass exodus. What I am pretty sure of is with GA in the SW being 2nd tier, over time the ECNL clubs will capture most of the talent in Phx as they age into ECNL or GA. Next yr or the yr after if your DD is good, your first choice won't be del Sol. And long term that will be a problem for the club.

Like I said I don't see current players all leaving or even most. Their issue going forward will be getting new kids into the club when most parents perceive ecnl is the top option.


----------



## crush

Desert Hound said:


> I don't think there will be a mass exodus. What I am pretty sure of is with GA in the SW being 2nd tier, over time the ECNL clubs will capture most of the talent in Phx as they age into ECNL or GA. Next yr or the yr after if your DD is good, your first choice won't be del Sol. And long term that will be a problem for the club.
> 
> Like I said I don't see current players all leaving or even most. Their issue going forward will be getting new kids into the club when most parents perceive ecnl is the top option.


It's so confusing for us in socal.  The perceived landing spot 6 years ago was ECNL.  Then the perceived top option was GDA 4 years ago.  Plus we all know The List was put in the hands of the Docs of the clubs and perception became a reality.  Today, ECNL is top choice.


----------



## Desert Hound

crush said:


> Today, ECNL is top choice


The fact 3 big clubs in the SW leave GA to ECNL tells you what they think the top league is. After all why leave GA?


----------



## crush

Desert Hound said:


> The fact 3 big clubs in the SW leave GA to ECNL tells you what they think the top league is. After all why leave GA?


The back and forth has been hard, I wont lie.  As a paying customer the last three sum years, this has been a whip lash of confusion for some of us chasing the dream.  "Hey you, ya you, come here.  We gots something you want but it's over here now.  That league sucks and our league is top dog now.  In fact, all the ynt scouts work here now and some are now on the YNT staff.  Come over here little one, this is where all the goods are."


----------



## happy9

Messi>CR7 said:


> I would like to hear some perspectives from parents that have gone through the recruiting process.  If your kid is a true 1% goat, this conversation is not for you.    Let's say the choices for my kid are:
> 1) Bench player on a solid ECNL SW team
> 2) Starter on a bottom 3 ECNL SW team
> 3) Starter on a solid ECRL team that does Surf Cup and other tourneys
> 
> #1 is a usually a no go as my kid (and most kids) prefers playing over sitting.  But from the recruiting perspective, how important is it to be on one of the better teams?  Would #3 be better than #2 if team#2 is not very competitive?  TIA.


I would start by determining what school(s) is being targeted by your player.  But, if you have the $$$ to throw around and you must be in a letter league, #2 is a great option., followed by #3.

There are plenty of players being recruited and playing at the next level that did not have access or the means to play in a letter league.  Coaches really do value the complete player ---Academics, multi sport, good kid in general, etc.


----------



## Desert Hound

happy9 said:


> I would start by determining what school(s) is being targeted by your player.  But, if you have the $$$ to throw around and you must be in a letter league, #2 is a great option., followed by #3.
> 
> There are plenty of players being recruited and playing at the next level that did not have access or the means to play in a letter league.  Coaches really do value the complete player ---Academics, multi sport, good kid in general, etc.


It also depends on the bench.

At some clubs or some teams within clubs, bench players get very little time. 

On the other hand I have seen teams with bench players who consistently get solid minutes. 

If it is the first, then I opt to have my kid go elsewhere.


----------



## crush

Desert Hound said:


> It also depends on the bench.
> 
> At some clubs or some teams within clubs, bench players get very little time.
> 
> On the other hand I have seen teams with bench players who consistently get solid minutes.
> 
> If it is the first, then I opt to have my kid go elsewhere.


I had to play in the actual game or I quit or find a lower level.  I was not a bench player and neither is my dd.  In youth soccer, if your a parent with some extra millions laying around, you can buy a starting spot in youth soccer.  I'm dead serious.  Imagine playing AAU and some dude shows up with a ton of cash and says, "My kid starts, how much?"  Then the same dude buys the AAU club and get's in on the action and runs the show.


----------



## azsnowrider

Desert Hound said:


> Quality of competition is an important factor coaches look at as it relates to who they recruit.


I think the answer to this depends on the school and the coach, what they value, what they are looking for, how do they fit, etc . Take a look around AZ, you cant tell me some of these kids in the last few years who have committed are playing in a highly rated platform. If you are one of the top rated college programs or even power 5 you can maybe make that case. But then again those coaches are probably hanging around the YNT camp. If you are a smaller D1, D2, D3, NAIA,JC  (reality schools for most) I don't think platform matters as much, as that conversation usually starts with "How are your grades". I can show you a dozen kids today who are going on to play in college that didn't play in ECNL/GA/MLS or the former DA. One look at rosters backs this...


----------



## Desert Hound

azsnowrider said:


> I think the answer to this depends on the school and the coach, what they value, what they are looking for, how do they fit, etc . Take a look around AZ, you cant tell me some of these kids in the last few years who have committed are playing in a highly rated platform. If you are one of the top rated college programs or even power 5 you can maybe make that case. But then again those coaches are probably hanging around the YNT camp. If you are a smaller D1, D2, D3, NAIA,JC  (reality schools for most) I don't think platform matters as much, as that conversation usually starts with "How are your grades". I can show you a dozen kids today who are going on to play in college that didn't play in ECNL/GA/MLS or the former DA. One look at rosters backs this...


As you know ECNL/DA rosters as a whole go to a lot better soccer programs vs APL rosters. That is a fact. 

And in the Valley? Over time with ECNL being the better competition at least in the SW you know the better players will go to the ECNL clubs. And so those rosters will generally go to better soccer programs vs non ECNL platforms. We have seen a variation of this now for years. 

We can always find kids from APL who play in college. But when you look at those rosters and where they go vs DA/ECNL rosters there is a big difference. Hell if you look at where Rising is now placing kids vs pre ECNL the difference is noticeable. Same with Arsenal. 

The fact is going forward del Sol and GA will be perceived as 2nd tier vs what the other 3 are offering. And based on history we know where parents with the most talented kids will head to. 

I suspect that same perception will grow in So Cal as well with the same results.


----------



## crush

Desert Hound said:


> As you know ECNL/DA rosters as a whole go to a lot better soccer programs vs APL rosters. That is a fact.
> 
> And in the Valley? Over time with ECNL being the better competition at least in the SW you know the better players will go to the ECNL clubs. And so those rosters will generally go to better soccer programs vs non ECNL platforms. We have seen a variation of this now for years.
> 
> We can always find kids from APL who play in college. But when you look at those rosters and where they go vs DA/ECNL rosters there is a big difference. Hell if you look at where Rising is now placing kids vs pre ECNL the difference is noticeable. Same with Arsenal.
> 
> The fact is going forward del Sol and GA will be perceived as 2nd tier vs what the other 3 are offering. And based on history we know where parents with the most talented kids will head to.
> 
> I suspect that same perception will grow in So Cal as well with the same results.


I was thinking GA should just merge with ECNL.  Have two tiers of two teams.  A National Travel Team ((NTT)) and Local Regional Team ((LRT)).  Have 30 kids at each age group per club.  We need only one top league and then sister teams.


----------



## Desert Hound

By they way...so who does GA pick up? They can't keep it at 7 clubs can they?


----------



## azsnowrider

Desert Hound said:


> As you know ECNL/DA rosters as a whole go to a lot better soccer programs vs APL rosters. That is a fact.
> 
> And in the Valley? Over time with ECNL being the better competition at least in the SW you know the better players will go to the ECNL clubs. And so those rosters will generally go to better soccer programs vs non ECNL platforms. We have seen a variation of this now for years.
> 
> We can always find kids from APL who play in college. But when you look at those rosters and where they go vs DA/ECNL rosters there is a big difference. Hell if you look at where Rising is now placing kids vs pre ECNL the difference is noticeable. Same with Arsenal.
> 
> The fact is going forward del Sol and GA will be perceived as 2nd tier vs what the other 3 are offering. And based on history we know where parents with the most talented kids will head to.
> 
> I suspect that same perception will grow in So Cal as well with the same results.


The better soccer programs wasn't your statement. Your statement is_ Quality of competition is an important factor coaches look at as it relates to who they recruit. _Your narrowing your view to only "better soccer programs" which usually means D1 Power 5 type programs, and I think I alluded to that as well. There are close to well over 600+ D2 and D3 programs as well, where most kids end up. Many of those kids don't play ECNL/GA and you know that... My point is for Smaller D1 programs or D2/D3 whether or not you are in ECNL isn't a deciding factor. I know you are tooting your ECNL horn but I am not sure you want to make that first statement either of ECNL/GA players go to better programs, percentage wise yes, but just because you have the ECNL patch doesn't mean you get in. Fact....


----------



## GeekKid

Looks like the Texas Showcase has been postponed....









						ECNL TEXAS NATIONAL EVENT CANCELED
					

The ECNL has been closely monitoring the weather forecast in Houston and surrounding areas. Based on the worsening expectations of extreme low temperatures through the weekend and the high likelihood of a wintry mix on Monday, as well as worsening conditions around the country impacting team...




					www.ecnlgirls.com


----------



## Desert Hound

azsnowrider said:


> The better soccer programs wasn't your statement. Your statement is_ Quality of competition is an important factor coaches look at as it relates to who they recruit. _Your narrowing your view to only "better soccer programs" which usually means D1 Power 5 type programs, and I think I alluded to that as well. There are close to well over 600+ D2 and D3 programs as well, where most kids end up. Many of those kids don't play ECNL/GA and you know that... My point is for Smaller D1 programs or D2/D3 whether or not you are in ECNL isn't a deciding factor. I know you are tooting your ECNL horn but I am not sure you want to make that first statement either of ECNL/GA players go to better programs, percentage wise yes, but just because you have the ECNL patch doesn't mean you get in. Fact....


Well I will still say quality of competition is an important consideration for many colleges. They want players who have played against the best players. 

It seems non controversial to say that the level of competition in the ECNL SW will be much stronger vs GA SW no?


----------



## timbuck

What does the addition of Beach and Legends do to GA and DPL in SoCal?  We all know that Pats and West Coast would do anything to have ECNL instead of ECNL-RL.
Since WC and Pats are also on the technical committee for SCDSL and SCDSL moved away from Cal-South -  This is their chance to try and revise this leagues relevance.  Keep ECNL-RL if you must.  But put everything else back into SCDSL and prop your league up a bit.


----------



## Desert Hound

GeekKid said:


> Looks like the Texas Showcase has been postponed....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ECNL TEXAS NATIONAL EVENT CANCELED
> 
> 
> The ECNL has been closely monitoring the weather forecast in Houston and surrounding areas. Based on the worsening expectations of extreme low temperatures through the weekend and the high likelihood of a wintry mix on Monday, as well as worsening conditions around the country impacting team...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ecnlgirls.com


That sucks.


----------



## GeekKid

Desert Hound said:


> That sucks.


Better safe than sorry.  100 car pile up on the I-35 this morning, 5 casualties at this time.









						6 Dead, Dozens Injured After Pileup Of Over 130 Vehicles On I-35W In Fort Worth
					

Officials in Fort Worth confirmed at least six people, who have not been publicly identified, were killed in the crash.




					dfw.cbslocal.com


----------



## dean

Desert Hound said:


> Well I will still say quality of competition is an important consideration for many colleges. They want players who have played against the best players.
> 
> It seems non controversial to say that the level of competition in the ECNL SW will be much stronger vs GA SW no?


Not just ECNL SW. ECNL NW > GA, too.


----------



## crush

azsnowrider said:


> The better soccer programs wasn't your statement. Your statement is_ Quality of competition is an important factor coaches look at as it relates to who they recruit. _Your narrowing your view to only "better soccer programs" which usually means D1 Power 5 type programs, and I think I alluded to that as well. There are close to well over 600+ D2 and D3 programs as well, where most kids end up. Many of those kids don't play ECNL/GA and you know that... My point is for Smaller D1 programs or D2/D3 whether or not you are in ECNL isn't a deciding factor. I know you are tooting your ECNL horn but I am not sure you want to make that first statement either of ECNL/GA players go to better programs, percentage wise yes, but just because you have the ECNL patch doesn't mean you get in. Fact....


I played NAIA hoops and I did not need to be in AAU to be recruited.  I actually got recruited playing pick up ball at CSUF Titans Gym open play on a Saturday.  I played against and with Cedric Ceballos and a few of the Titans that would come play to stay in shape.  Well, i happen to get picked up by Ced ((he liked my hustle and I always made sure he got the rock to shoot )) and I made a name for myself.  Scotty Brooks would be there as well.  Keep in mine this was not pick up like UCLA had in those awesome summer games at Pauly back when Magic and Jordan would have epic battles.  No, this was a little bit lower level but I was hanging with future NBA players and that made me feel proud.  Any who, one of the players over at Pacific Christian College ((Hope U now)) spotted my talents and talked to me about Christ and his awesome coach, Lee Erickson.  He coached over at Witch a ta State and Cal Baptist.  He told me if I worked hard at my game I could go over seas and play pro.  He coached Cliff Livingston at State and he would show up to our practices at CSUF.  We did get to scrimmage Ced's team in pre-season and it was a crushing defeat.  Ced pulled me aside and told me he loved my hustle and if i keep up the good work, I could go pro in Europe.


----------



## Footy30

I have a question..

If the SW ECNL does decide to split into two groups how do you see this split happening? With now 4 out of state teams who are the lucky (or unlucky depending on where you stand on travel) who gets to travel out of state?? hmmmmm


----------



## dad4

Glad to see them expand it.   Hope they do something to separate out the top 20-40 teams per age bracket.


Desert Hound said:


> Well I will still say quality of competition is an important consideration for many colleges. They want players who have played against the best players.
> 
> It seems non controversial to say that the level of competition in the ECNL SW will be much stronger vs GA SW no?


Kind of a moot point for most players.  

Yes, top colleges will want players who play _*and excel*_ against the top players.  

If you aren’t already dominating in your non-ECNL league, maybe that’s not you.

Barca probably wants players who play against top players, too.  That doesn’t mean they’re calling up every bench warmer from Leipzig just because they occasionally face Bayern.


----------



## crush

Footy30 said:


> I have a question..
> 
> If the SW ECNL does decide to split into two groups how do you see this split happening? With now 4 out of state teams who are the lucky (or unlucky depending on where you stand on travel) who gets to travel out of state?? hmmmmm


Footy, I shared my dreams about this a ways back.  I see it like this
Desert Divison
AZ Royals
AZ Arsenal
AZ Risng
AZ Del Sol
NV Heat
SD Surf
SD Rebels
SD Sharks
IE Legends
IE Arsenal

West Coast Division
Beach FC
LA Breakers
Real SC
Eagles
Strikers
Blues
LAFC
Slammers
West Coast
Pats


----------



## Footy30

crush said:


> Footy, I shared my dreams about this a ways back.  I see it like this
> Desert Divison
> AZ Royals
> AZ Arsenal
> AZ Risng
> NV Heat
> SD Surf
> SD Rebels
> SD Sharks
> IE Legends
> IE Arsenal
> 
> West Coast Division
> Beach FC
> LA Breakers
> Real SC
> Eagles
> Strikers
> Blues
> LAFC
> Slammers
> ?


 You're right you did... my bad.. I think this is pretty good guess. The ?in West Coast division  is in case another team is let in??


----------



## crush

Footy30 said:


> You're right you did... my bad.. I think this is pretty good guess. The ?in West Coast division  is in case another team is let in??


Yes.  I was thinking maybe West Coast and Pats could have 2 out of three battle for that final spot?  I would like to see WC and Pats.  I also added Del Sol to Desert Division. We could then go 10 and ten.  I switch what it would look like.  That way no one feels left out.  Trust me, I know what it's like to be kicked out of a league and it's not a fun feeling.  I know that feeling all too well.


----------



## azsnowrider

Desert Hound said:


> Well I will still say quality of competition is an important consideration for many colleges. They want players who have played against the best players.
> 
> It seems non controversial to say that the level of competition in the ECNL SW will be much stronger vs GA SW no?


I think the word you are looking for is potential, Does the ECNL SW even play any games? All I see are cancellations.  I don't see the GA canceling anything they played all year, and will in Texas from what it sounds like....... PS: the GA better not cancel now that I said that but round rock is a distance away. 

Reality is the real competition is between maybe 6 clubs, then the rest.


----------



## azsnowrider

crush said:


> I played NAIA hoops and I did not need to be in AAU to be recruited.  I actually got recruited playing pick up ball at CSUF Titans Gym open play on a Saturday.  I played against and with Cedric Ceballos and a few of the Titans that would come play to stay in shape.  Well, i happen to get picked up by Ced ((he liked my hustle and I always made sure he got the rock to shoot )) and I made a name for myself.  Scotty Brooks would be there as well.  Keep in mine this was not pick up like UCLA had in those awesome summer games at Pauly back when Magic and Jordan would have epic battles.  No, this was a little bit lower level but I was hanging with future NBA players and that made me feel proud.  Any who, one of the players over at Pacific Christian College ((Hope U now)) spotted my talents and talked to me about Christ and his awesome coach, Lee Erickson.  He coached over at Witch a ta State and Cal Baptist.  He told me if I worked hard at my game I could go over seas and play pro.  He coached Cliff Livingston at State and he would show up to our practices at CSUF.  We did get to scrimmage Ced's team in pre-season and it was a crushing defeat.  Ced pulled me aside and told me he loved my hustle and if i keep up the good work, I could go pro in Europe.


I loved Cedric, got to hang out with him one day. He was super cool, and I loved his game. Back then Basketball was fun to watch. I always felt he never got the credit he deserved and I watched him play A LOT! You know, the Suns thing.


----------



## crush

azsnowrider said:


> I loved Cedric, got to hang out with him one day. He was super cool, and I loved his game. Back then Basketball was fun to watch. I always felt he never got the credit he deserved and I watched him play A LOT! You know, the Suns thing.


He was super cool and not full of ego like others.  He talked with me and treated me like a baller that i was.  At first chance of seeing me, you would not be scared of me.  However, I would slap your knee or foul you hard or take the charge to show all that I mean business that day.  Dont judge by the cover of the book is all I can say with me.


----------



## zags77

My question is does West Coast, Pats and LA surf all remain in ECRL?  All 3 clubs have GA teams, ECRL teams and DPL?


----------



## Kicker4Life

zags77 said:


> My question is does West Coast, Pats and LA surf all remain in ECRL?  All 3 clubs have GA teams, ECRL teams and DPL?


1st, 2nd and 3rd Teams.  Where they put these teams may determine their future.  For example, if Pats puts its first team in GA, it will likely never gain entry into ECNL.


----------



## azsnowrider

Kicker4Life said:


> 1st, 2nd and 3rd Teams.  Where they put these teams may determine their future.  For example, if Pats puts its first team in GA, it will likely never gain entry into ECNL.


What's your take on how many teams is to many? Sitting at 17 now in the SW which could be 18 soon, maybe. Adding those 3 mentioned at some point puts it at 20/21 in the SW, how diluted is SoCal with what could be 17/18 ECNL teams? My 2 cents is ECNL needs to bump a few underperforming clubs to make it truly the best, or relegate them to regional league.


----------



## Kicker4Life

azsnowrider said:


> ECNL needs to bump a few underperforming clubs to make it truly the best, or relegate them to regional league.


^ 100%


----------



## whatithink

azsnowrider said:


> What's your take on how many teams is to many? Sitting at 17 now in the SW which could be 18 soon, maybe. Adding those 3 mentioned at some point puts it at 20/21 in the SW, how diluted is SoCal with what could be 17/18 ECNL teams? My 2 cents is ECNL needs to bump a few underperforming clubs to make it truly the best, or relegate them to regional league.


You really think so? Phoenix metro area has a population of 1.7M or so. Socal has a population of 22M+. 17-18 teams would be too many for a catchment area of 24M people ... I don't really buy that at a macro level. There may be some over saturation, but people will travel 1+ hours to be on the right team which makes catchment areas very large.


----------



## girlsrule7

Kicker4Life said:


> ^ 100%


ECNL let in a lot of clubs that they never would have considered before once DA came along.  Some of those teams have struggled and will continue to struggle as strong teams come back into ECNL.  The strong teams aren't going to want to have a schedule filled with weak teams and if ECNL doesn't fix the situation, in several years history will repeat itself and the strong teams will look to play only each other.  I believe this was the basis of the formation of the ECNL back many yers ago.  They'll either need to create tiers or remove teams.


----------



## Surf Zombie

Has ECNL ever kicked out a club as underperforming?


----------



## Desert Hound

whatithink said:


> You really think so? Phoenix metro area has a population of 1.7M or so


To clarify the Phoenix metro area is just shy of 5 million people. Phoenix by itself is a bit less than 1.7 million.


----------



## GT45

Surf Zombie said:


> Has ECNL ever kicked out a club as underperforming?


YES. It kicked out a club from Las Vegas a handful of years ago.


----------



## azsnowrider

whatithink said:


> You really think so? Phoenix metro area has a population of 1.7M or so. Socal has a population of 22M+. 17-18 teams would be too many for a catchment area of 24M people ... I don't really buy that at a macro level. There may be some over saturation, but people will travel 1+ hours to be on the right team which makes catchment areas very large.


What's your definition of Phoenix Metro? Mine has 4.8 Million not 1.7 according to the states statistics for Phx Metro. My point isn't population based it's how many teams are to many, at what point is it not elite anymore? If everyone gets in the cool kids club is it cool anymore? If the bottom dwellers are getting creamed every game do they belong?


----------



## Surf Zombie

GT45 said:


> YES. It kicked out a club from Las Vegas a handful of years ago.


Because of on field performance, or not being able to field teams?


----------



## Desert Hound

Surf Zombie said:


> Because of on field performance, or not being able to field teams?


I have never heard the actual reason they were kicked out.


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> 1st, 2nd and 3rd Teams.  Where they put these teams may determine their future.  For example, if Pats puts its first team in GA, it will likely never gain entry into ECNL.


That is speaking from experience as well bro.  I say let them in and WC.  Cut the rosters all down to 18.  No more 25.  Kids need to play and not be shipped around.  Take 20 and then the rest can go SDSL or CSL local leagues.  Those would be good teams.  Not everyone wants to travel all over the country these days.  Local sound so good.


----------



## crush

azsnowrider said:


> What's your take on how many teams is to many? Sitting at 17 now in the SW which could be 18 soon, maybe. Adding those 3 mentioned at some point puts it at 20/21 in the SW, how diluted is SoCal with what could be 17/18 ECNL teams? My 2 cents is ECNL needs to bump a few underperforming clubs to make it truly the best, or relegate them to regional league.


I say add Vegas Abion and SD Abion as one big team.  They pull from each club to make them more competitive.  I'm down with that.  Add West Coast & Pats and were all good.  Anyone else who feels cheated needs to get their club in the next surf cup and win some games.  JH kicked ass a as a private club in Glendora and started to beat teams.  Problem I see is these teams would then poach the goats because of ecnl.  No more I say.  Open to all.  20 is good.  Bottom teams get dropped and two new teams join next year.


----------



## azsnowrider

GT45 said:


> YES. It kicked out a club from Las Vegas a handful of years ago.


It was Las Vegas Premier right? They were terrible, back when AZ and Nevada were in the ECNL Mtn Conference.


----------



## whatithink

azsnowrider said:


> What's your definition of Phoenix Metro? Mine has 4.8 Million not 1.7 according to the states statistics for Phx Metro. My point isn't population based it's how many teams are to many, at what point is it not elite anymore? If everyone gets in the cool kids club is it cool anymore? If the bottom dwellers are getting creamed every game do they belong?


OK the total should be 26M people - are you saying that a region with a population that size can't support 17-18 teams per age group in its top league? Elite, btw, is a label, not a given for any team or player. A team getting creamed means that team doesn't belong, not that there isn't 17-18 teams that do. That's a structural issue with an org that organizes itself on a club basis, not a team basis, i.e. the best of the best teams vs the best connected clubs.


----------



## dad4

azsnowrider said:


> What's your take on how many teams is to many? Sitting at 17 now in the SW which could be 18 soon, maybe. Adding those 3 mentioned at some point puts it at 20/21 in the SW, how diluted is SoCal with what could be 17/18 ECNL teams? My 2 cents is ECNL needs to bump a few underperforming clubs to make it truly the best, or relegate them to regional league.


ECNL has a travel problem again if they bump the bottom 3-4 clubs from each conference.  Cutting clubs also helps GA, which is probably not ECNL's goal.

A better way to create parity is to create a new structure at the top, maybe including the best 20 teams in each age group.


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> It also depends on the bench.
> 
> At some clubs or some teams within clubs, bench players get very little time.
> 
> On the other hand I have seen teams with bench players who consistently get solid minutes.
> 
> If it is the first, then I opt to have my kid go elsewhere.


Roster size certainly matter.  Your roster may be 18-20 but you may only be playing 14-15.   Small rosters have their big upside until there are injuries.  Small rosters normally mean there is equitable playing time, especially if you are an attacking player.


----------



## GT45

azsnowrider said:


> It was Las Vegas Premier right? They were terrible, back when AZ and Nevada were in the ECNL Mtn Conference.


Yes, and kicked out for performance.


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> The fact 3 big clubs in the SW leave GA to ECNL tells you what they think the top league is. After all why leave GA?


No doubt those clubs think that.  It's also where they think the dollars are.  Have the ECNL patch on the jersey, kids will come, load up on rosters, etc. I get it, it was a business decision.  College Coaches don't care as much as the parents care.  All parent driven.  Youth soccer is a business, this was a business decision.  Nothing wrong with some capitalism.  

The GA will be challenged in the SW, no doubt.   We will see how they respond/fill in the gaps.  They have a different message and feel different than ECNL, many parents like the temperament of the GA.  Their leadership is solid, their YNT/College connections are solid, and they've retained well respected youth coaches with inroads in the college coaching and YNT community.  

At the end of the day, if your player plays at the next level, the discussion during their college sophomore year at practice isn't going to be what league they came from.  For now, ECNL can rightfully claim to have the "stronger" league in the SW.  It matters most to ECNL.

My oldest is moving on to the next level playing this upcoming fall.  He's never worn  letters on his club jersey, ever.  My DD is another story and her pathway will be different (if she decides to stick with it I suppose).


----------



## futboldad1

Messi>CR7 said:


> I would like to hear some perspectives from parents that have gone through the recruiting process.  If your kid is a true 1% goat, this conversation is not for you.    Let's say the choices for my kid are:
> 1) Bench player on a solid ECNL SW team
> 2) Starter on a bottom 3 ECNL SW team
> 3) Starter on a solid ECRL team that does Surf Cup and other tourneys
> 
> #1 is a usually a no go as my kid (and most kids) prefers playing over sitting.  But from the recruiting perspective, how important is it to be on one of the better teams?  Would #3 be better than #2 if team#2 is not very competitive?  TIA.


#3 would definitely be bottom of the list as the competition is not there...... #1 would is okay if the coach plays their bench strong minutes of around 50%......#2 is okay too unless the team is a full whipping boy that loses every week and rarely has a shot........



Kicker4Life said:


> ^ 100%


Kicker you know I have nothing but love for you but it seems kind of Fd that Beach just gain entry and now you are advocating ECNL removing clubs...... I heard the same from a Beach parent about Real when we got back in last year and I while I did understand the annoyance at your club not getting in last spring I did not understand the hate for other clubs.......a fact is that ECNL is loyal to their member clubs, their member clubs not so much given the DA fiasco, so removals are definitely not going to happen it is just an interesting stance from you...... sure by purely looking at last years results Sharks, Eagles, Rebels and Arsenal may struggle but with so much change every year who can say that for sure........I do think that adding one more to make 18 would be a perfect number with two equal divisions and keep the quality high...... none of the So Calif clubs that are not currently in ECNL deserve to be in based on soccer factors.....if adding one more I'd suggest a SD surf second team or one more Ariz or Nev team so each division has two out of state teams in it making travel equal.......

There was more than just performance to the LV premier story BTW..........but their results were shocking lol so there did not need to be


----------



## happy9

whatithink said:


> OK the total should be 26M people - are you saying that a region with a population that size can't support 17-18 teams per age group in its top league? Elite, btw, is a label, not a given for any team or player. A team getting creamed means that team doesn't belong, not that there isn't 17-18 teams that do. That's a structural issue with an org that organizes itself on a club basis, not a team basis, i.e. the best of the best teams vs the best connected clubs.


This will always be an AZ problem.  Too many fingers in the pot to truly put together teams that are competitive across all roster spots.  4 "elite" clubs doesn't make any one of them really elite.  Maybe 2 clubs.

But really, if your end state is college, and if you have the means, the letter leagues are the easiest option, if you get minutes and you are traveling to CA to get your clock cleaned.


----------



## happy9

azsnowrider said:


> What's your take on how many teams is to many? Sitting at 17 now in the SW which could be 18 soon, maybe. Adding those 3 mentioned at some point puts it at 20/21 in the SW, how diluted is SoCal with what could be 17/18 ECNL teams?* My 2 cents is ECNL needs to bump a few underperforming clubs to make it truly the best, or relegate them to regional league.*


They won't, the dollas are too good.  You'll have 5 really good teams, then everyone else. College coaches  know this.  ECNL knows what it's doing, targeting parents with slick marketing.  

Sometimes it's better to be the big fish in the small pond VS the small fish in the big pond.  AZ Arsenal will be the small fish in the big pond.  It's really hard to be assessed by a college coach when your team can't connect 1 pass (I'm not saying this specifically targeting Arsenal, but any of the bottom teams in any "elite" league).


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> That is speaking from experience as well bro.  I say let them in and WC. * Cut the rosters all down to 18.  No more 25.*  Kids need to play and not be shipped around.  Take 20 and then the rest can go SDSL or CSL local leagues.  Those would be good teams.  Not everyone wants to travel all over the country these days.  Local sound so good.


Doesn't fit the business model.


----------



## Kicker4Life

futboldad1 said:


> Kicker you know I have nothing but love for you but it seems kind of Fd that Beach just gain entry and now you are advocating ECNL removing clubs...... I heard the same from a Beach parent about Real when we got back in last year and I while I did understand the annoyance at your club not getting in last spring I did not understand the hate for other clubs.......a fact is that ECNL is loyal to their member clubs, their member clubs not so much given the DA fiasco, so removals are definitely not going to happen it is just an interesting stance from you...... sure by purely looking at last years results Sharks, Eagles, Rebels and Arsenal may struggle but with so much change every year who can say that for sure........I do think that adding one more to make 18 would be a perfect number with two equal divisions and keep the quality high...... none of the So Calif clubs that are not currently in ECNL deserve to be in based on soccer factors.....if adding one more I'd suggest a SD surf second team or one more Ariz or Nev team so each division has two out of state teams in it making travel equal.......


Look...if Beach can’t perform they should be out too.  I’m not advocating “we’re in so you should be out”, but more of a Promotion/Relegation structure.  

If a Club is at or near the bottom of the standings in every age group for multiple years what should be done?  Especially in areas with 2 or 3 ECNL options in one small geographic area?

Wouldn’t it be better served to drop an underperforming Club in a crowded area to make room for another in an underserved area?

It’s just an opinion but I could be persuaded otherwise.


----------



## crush

futboldad1 said:


> #3 would definitely be bottom of the list as the competition is not there...... #1 would is okay if the coach plays their bench strong minutes of around 50%......#2 is okay too unless the team is a full whipping boy that loses every week and rarely has a shot........
> 
> 
> 
> Kicker you know I have nothing but love for you but it seems kind of Fd that Beach just gain entry and now you are advocating ECNL removing clubs...... I heard the same from a Beach parent about Real when we got back in last year and I while I did understand the annoyance at your club not getting in last spring I did not understand the hate for other clubs.......a fact is that ECNL is loyal to their member clubs, their member clubs not so much given the DA fiasco, so removals are definitely not going to happen it is just an interesting stance from you...... sure by purely looking at last years results Sharks, Eagles, Rebels and Arsenal may struggle but with so much change every year who can say that for sure........I do think that adding one more to make 18 would be a perfect number with two equal divisions and keep the quality high...... none of the So Calif clubs that are not currently in ECNL deserve to be in based on soccer factors.....if adding one more I'd suggest a SD surf second team or one more Ariz or Nev team so each division has two out of state teams in it making travel equal.......
> 
> There was more than just performance to the LV premier story BTW..........but their results were shocking lol so there did not need to be


I dont always agree with you dude, but you wrote that nicely.  It is what it is.  I think were both glad for the sake of competition.  I would like to add WC and Pats to The List to make it 20, only for the kids sake.  Pats spent a ton of money doing what the GDA asked the top clubs to do, that is to fully fund the girls progra.  They did and now they are out?  I say Pats need to be in as does West Coast., just like da boys.


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> Look...if Beach can’t perform they should be out too.  I’m not advocating “we’re in so you should be out”, but more of a Promotion/Relegation structure.
> 
> If a Club is at or near the bottom of the standings in every age group for multiple years what should be done?  Especially in areas with 2 or 3 ECNL options in one small geographic area?
> 
> Wouldn’t it be better served to drop an underperforming Club in a crowded area to make room for another in an underserved area?
> 
> It’s just an opinion but I could be persuaded otherwise.


I liike that.  The problem this year is all of us didnt get a chance to perform.  So we should scrap this season and just do some USL and then do a big group tournament to see who the top 18 are in June.  Start with 32 teams in 8 groups of 4.  Top two are in plus two wild cards for 18 baby.  This is so easy.  The rest play local leagues and try and win in next years play in tournament?  Now that sounds like fun to me.


----------



## happy9

Kicker4Life said:


> Look...if Beach can’t perform they should be out too.  I’m not advocating “we’re in so you should be out”, but more of a Promotion/Relegation structure.
> 
> If a Club is at or near the bottom of the standings in every age group for multiple years what should be done?  Especially in areas with 2 or 3 ECNL options in one small geographic area?
> 
> Wouldn’t it be better served to drop an underperforming Club in a crowded area to make room for another in an underserved area?
> 
> It’s just an opinion but I could be persuaded otherwise.


The relegation thing would be awesome but would never work and would likely result in club hopping and animosity.  Would the ECRL be the battlegrounds for the teams vying for the ECNL spots?  I really do like it, just don't know if it would work in this case.

ECNL sells itself as a provider of a service.  You can do it on your own, but if you go with them, they'll make it easier.  Which is arguable true if your player gets the minutes, which means she gets the exposure.  Parents do minimal work during the recruiting process, they just write checks.  Which we are happy to do most of the time..Well, maybe not happy to do, but we do it.


----------



## dad4

happy9 said:


> The relegation thing would be awesome but would never work and would likely result in club hopping and animosity.  Would the ECRL be the battlegrounds for the teams vying for the ECNL spots?  I really do like it, just don't know if it would work in this case.
> 
> ECNL sells itself as a provider of a service.  You can do it on your own, but if you go with them, they'll make it easier.  Which is arguable true if your player gets the minutes, which means she gets the exposure.  Parents do minimal work during the recruiting process, they just write checks.  Which we are happy to do most of the time..Well, maybe not happy to do, but we do it.


Makes sense for U17.

Why do the U13 parents bother with it?  

I am pretty sure UCLA is not sending scouts to watch some 12 year olds play.


----------



## azsnowrider

dad4 said:


> ECNL has a travel problem again if they bump the bottom 3-4 clubs from each conference.  Cutting clubs also helps GA, which is probably not ECNL's goal.
> 
> A better way to create parity is to create a new structure at the top, maybe including the best 20 teams in each age group.


SW ECNL will always have a travel problem as long as AZ exists in the conference. Keeping Clubs in that are underperforming just to fix travel doesn't help the "Spirit" of competition. They are just easy wins to pad the numbers. I personally like a promotion relegation system, make them earn it, I'll bet we see some coaches start coaching and players stepping up instead of going through the motions.


----------



## oh canada

Kicker4Life said:


> Look...if Beach can’t perform they should be out too.  I’m not advocating “we’re in so you should be out”, but more of a Promotion/Relegation structure.
> 
> If a Club is at or near the bottom of the standings in every age group for multiple years what should be done?  Especially in areas with 2 or 3 ECNL options in one small geographic area?
> 
> Wouldn’t it be better served to drop an underperforming Club in a crowded area to make room for another in an underserved area?
> 
> It’s just an opinion but I could be persuaded otherwise.


All these Dads on here thinking their kids youth club is just like the pro leagues.  Pro/rel in club soccer is one of the dumbest ideas i've read about on this board.  To maximize development, kids (and families) need stability from their coaches, leagues, teams, and clubs.  Unfortunately, we haven't had that here for years, but it's possible we might finally have that now.  

Awfully elitist to posit that teams near the bottom don't deserve to be there and completely anti-development as well.  If winning is all that matters then how do you think coaches and clubs will view bringing up younger players, or playing subs more than 5-10 minutes, or trying different positions?  And do you want to give a huge recruiting advantage to the biggest clubs who hoard good players.  Pro/rel would do that.  Some of these "top" clubs' bread and butter is not developing their own players but plucking the best from smaller clubs, arguing that their current club doesn't play in the top league.  As it stands, that cannot now be argued for many clubs.

If a certain club's teams are all losing 6-0, 7-0 every game, then ok, maybe you have a point.  But that's not happening in the ECNL.  Don't judge the quality of a team's wins and losses unless you're watching their games.  

Full disclosure:  One of my kids plays on a middle-of-the-pack club and another on a top club.


----------



## GT45

crush said:


> I dont always agree with you dude, but you wrote that nicely.  It is what it is.  I think were both glad for the sake of competition.  I would like to add WC and Pats to The List to make it 20, only for the kids sake.  Pats spent a ton of money doing what the GDA asked the top clubs to do, that is to fully fund the girls progra.  They did and now they are out?  I say Pats need to be in as does West Coast., just like da boys.


Pats relationship with DA has nothing to do with ECNL. They were never in ECNL in the first place. They are not competitive enough on the girls side. They would only water down ECNL. Why should ECNL want them? As for West Coast, they left ECNL for DA. They are not competitive enough anymore (they used to be, but not now). So why should ECNL welcome them back? Like Pats, they just water down the product.


----------



## azsnowrider

futboldad1 said:


> There was more than just performance to the LV premier story BTW..........but their results were shocking lol so there did not need to be



Shocking is an understatement. Didn't most of the teams not win a single game one year?


----------



## EOTL

happy9 said:


> The relegation thing would be awesome but would never work and would likely result in club hopping and animosity.  Would the ECRL be the battlegrounds for the teams vying for the ECNL spots?  I really do like it, just don't know if it would work in this case.
> 
> ECNL sells itself as a provider of a service.  You can do it on your own, but if you go with them, they'll make it easier.  Which is arguable true if your player gets the minutes, which means she gets the exposure.  Parents do minimal work during the recruiting process, they just write checks.  Which we are happy to do most of the time..Well, maybe not happy to do, but we do it.


Relegation is a terrible idea. You will never be able to get the bulk of the best players to congregate in one league with a system of relegation. You would never have the stability needed to draw good coaches into selecting youth soccer coach as a profession. You would never have the stability needed for a club to grow to a point that it can put substantial resources into fields, coaching, and tournaments. You’d be stuck with the daddy ball free for all that exists at the younger levels.

If you let in the riff raff, the cheap ass parents and coaches will be constantly whining about the costs, the travel, the commitment, all the things that eventually cause teams and clubs to fall apart - until ECNL also fell apart. There would be no more high quality out of state showcases, as too many cheapskate teams are unable to field enough players with parents willing or able to pay for the trips. Teams would drop out mid season as already happens to a lot of teams at these s**ty and petty little clubs. Teams would constantly be playing on crappy fields once you let in S**ty FC that can’t afford good field space or decent refs. Everyone would be offering every 12 year old in sight free rides to gain an advantage over clubs that are actually fiscally responsible. 

People like @crush like the idea of relegation because they don’t like the reality that you get what you pay for. They want the benefits you get from ECNL clubs that spent years of hard work and financial risk to get where they, but at 1/10th the price of what it actually costs.


----------



## dad4

oh canada said:


> All these Dads on here thinking their kids youth club is just like the pro leagues.  Pro/rel in club soccer is one of the dumbest ideas i've read about on this board.  To maximize development, kids (and families) need stability from their coaches, leagues, teams, and clubs.  Unfortunately, we haven't had that here for years, but it's possible we might finally have that now.
> 
> Awfully elitist to posit that teams near the bottom don't deserve to be there and completely anti-development as well.  If winning is all that matters then how do you think coaches and clubs will view bringing up younger players, or playing subs more than 5-10 minutes, or trying different positions?  And do you want to give a huge recruiting advantage to the biggest clubs who hoard good players.  Pro/rel would do that.  Some of these "top" clubs' bread and butter is not developing their own players but plucking the best from smaller clubs, arguing that their current club doesn't play in the top league.  As it stands, that cannot now be argued for many clubs.
> 
> If a certain club's teams are all losing 6-0, 7-0 every game, then ok, maybe you have a point.  But that's not happening in the ECNL.  Don't judge the quality of a team's wins and losses unless you're watching their games.
> 
> Full disclosure:  One of my kids plays on a middle-of-the-pack club and another on a top club.


I just want pro-rel so the matches are worth playing. 

I doubt ECNL because I don’t want my kid to waste 2 days and fail a history test just so she can help give La Roca a 6-0 drubbing.

Flying out to get clobbered by Real Colorado would be just as bad.


----------



## Kicker4Life

oh canada said:


> All these Dads on here thinking their kids youth club is just like the pro leagues.  Pro/rel in club soccer is one of the dumbest ideas i've read about on this board.  To maximize development, kids (and families) need stability from their coaches, leagues, teams, and clubs.  Unfortunately, we haven't had that here for years, but it's possible we might finally have that now.
> 
> Awfully elitist to posit that teams near the bottom don't deserve to be there and completely anti-development as well.  If winning is all that matters then how do you think coaches and clubs will view bringing up younger players, or playing subs more than 5-10 minutes, or trying different positions?  And do you want to give a huge recruiting advantage to the biggest clubs who hoard good players.  Pro/rel would do that.  Some of these "top" clubs' bread and butter is not developing their own players but plucking the best from smaller clubs, arguing that their current club doesn't play in the top league.  As it stands, that cannot now be argued for many clubs.
> 
> If a certain club's teams are all losing 6-0, 7-0 every game, then ok, maybe you have a point.  But that's not happening in the ECNL.  Don't judge the quality of a team's wins and losses unless you're watching their games.
> 
> Full disclosure:  One of my kids plays on a middle-of-the-pack club and another on a top club.


Valid points thanks for sharing


----------



## crush

GT45 said:


> Pats relationship with DA has nothing to do with ECNL. They were never in ECNL in the first place. They are not competitive enough on the girls side. They would only water down ECNL. Why should ECNL want them? As for West Coast, they left ECNL for DA. They are not competitive enough anymore (they used to be, but not now). So why should ECNL welcome them back? Like Pats, they just water down the product.


Kids sake bro, not adults.  I see your point.


----------



## happy9

EOTL said:


> Relegation is a terrible idea. You will never be able to get the bulk of the best players to congregate in one league with a system of relegation. You would never have the stability needed to draw good coaches into selecting youth soccer coach as a profession. You would never have the stability needed for a club to grow to a point that it can put substantial resources into fields, coaching, and tournaments. You’d be stuck with the daddy ball free for all that exists at the younger levels.
> 
> If you let in the riff raff, the cheap ass parents and coaches will be constantly whining about the costs, the travel, the commitment, all the things that eventually cause teams and clubs to fall apart - until ECNL also fell apart. There would be no more high quality out of state showcases, as too many cheapskate teams are unable to field enough players with parents willing or able to pay for the trips. Teams would drop out mid season as already happens to a lot of teams at these s**ty and petty little clubs. Teams would constantly be playing on crappy fields once you let in S**ty FC that can’t afford good field space or decent refs. Everyone would be offering every 12 year old in sight free rides to gain an advantage over clubs that are actually fiscally responsible.
> 
> People like @crush like the idea of relegation because they don’t like the reality that you get what you pay for. They want the benefits you get from ECNL clubs that spent years of hard work and financial risk to get where they, but at 1/10th the price of what it actually costs.


Don't disagree with most of this.  In a closed ecosystem, relegation could work.  18 teams in an "elite" league doesn't make much sense to me but makes sense as a business model.  Maybe they will split it up.

Bottom line is parents wouldn't take well to a relegation system and would jump to the club(s) that weren't relegated, adding to your point about instability and focus on the things that don't benefit the player.  

Ahh, first world problems, trying to figure out how to best run a league that is happy to take money from parents.


----------



## Footy30

oh canada said:


> All these Dads on here thinking their kids youth club is just like the pro leagues.  Pro/rel in club soccer is one of the dumbest ideas i've read about on this board.  To maximize development, kids (and families) need stability from their coaches, leagues, teams, and clubs.  Unfortunately, we haven't had that here for years, but it's possible we might finally have that now.
> 
> Awfully elitist to posit that teams near the bottom don't deserve to be there and completely anti-development as well.  If winning is all that matters then how do you think coaches and clubs will view bringing up younger players, or playing subs more than 5-10 minutes, or trying different positions?  And do you want to give a huge recruiting advantage to the biggest clubs who hoard good players.  Pro/rel would do that.  Some of these "top" clubs' bread and butter is not developing their own players but plucking the best from smaller clubs, arguing that their current club doesn't play in the top league.  As it stands, that cannot now be argued for many clubs.
> 
> If a certain club's teams are all losing 6-0, 7-0 every game, then ok, maybe you have a point.  But that's not happening in the ECNL.  Don't judge the quality of a team's wins and losses unless you're watching their games.
> 
> Full disclosure:  *One of my kids plays on a middle-of-the-pack club and another on a top club.*


You and @EOTL bring up some good points as to why Rel/Pro wouldn't work... I do see some benefits to pro/rel but I also see your points as well. Not sure its in the future of ECNL anyway...


----------



## crush

Footy30 said:


> You and @EOTL bring up some good points as to why Rel/Pro wouldn't work... I do see some benefits to pro/rel but I also see your points as well. Not sure its in the future of ECNL anyway...


It will never work bro.  It was dream of mine and that's it.  I dreamed 18 and bam, we are going to have 18.  I said many other things that ring true today as well.  I know my stuff footy, trust me


----------



## oh canada

Footy30 said:


> You and @EOTL bring up some good points as to why Rel/Pro wouldn't work... I do see some benefits to pro/rel but I also see your points as well. Not sure its in the future of ECNL anyway...


Thanks.  We finally might actually have some stability around here for a few years from our league.  Let's enjoy that lack of drama.  Fingers crossed.


----------



## dad4

EOTL said:


> Relegation is a terrible idea. You will never be able to get the bulk of the best players to congregate in one league with a system of relegation. You would never have the stability needed to draw good coaches into selecting youth soccer coach as a profession. You would never have the stability needed for a club to grow to a point that it can put substantial resources into fields, coaching, and tournaments. You’d be stuck with the daddy ball free for all that exists at the younger levels.
> 
> If you let in the riff raff, the cheap ass parents and coaches will be constantly whining about the costs, the travel, the commitment, all the things that eventually cause teams and clubs to fall apart - until ECNL also fell apart. There would be no more high quality out of state showcases, as too many cheapskate teams are unable to field enough players with parents willing or able to pay for the trips. Teams would drop out mid season as already happens to a lot of teams at these s**ty and petty little clubs. Teams would constantly be playing on crappy fields once you let in S**ty FC that can’t afford good field space or decent refs. Everyone would be offering every 12 year old in sight free rides to gain an advantage over clubs that are actually fiscally responsible.
> 
> People like @crush like the idea of relegation because they don’t like the reality that you get what you pay for. They want the benefits you get from ECNL clubs that spent years of hard work and financial risk to get where they, but at 1/10th the price of what it actually costs.


The vast majority of comp teams play in pro-rel leagues.  Seems to work out ok.

The real objection is that, in pro-rel, clubs have to admit the existence of the weak teams at strong clubs.  Example:

Arrogance FC is usually good, but the 06 team sucks rocks.

Under pro-rel, the 06 team drops down.  06 parents finally put 2 and 2 together, and they stop writing the big checks.

Under ECNL, Arrogance FC gets to sell membership on an elite 06 team, even though they don't have one.

No wonder Arrogance FC likes ECNL better.


----------



## EOTL

dad4 said:


> I just want pro-rel so the matches are worth playing.
> 
> I doubt ECNL because I don’t want my kid to waste 2 days and fail a history test just so she can help give La Roca a 6-0 drubbing.
> 
> Flying out to get clobbered by Real Colorado would be just as bad.


The other reason pro/rel is bad is that it really hurts development. Every coach will be playing to win every game instead of developing players, because losing a u14 soccer game potentially means having to file for unemployment and find a new line of work all because some soccer daddy is trying to prop up his fragile ego trying to live vicariously through his daughter.  That is nuts.


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> The other reason pro/rel is bad is that it really hurts development. Every coach will be playing to win every game instead of developing players, because losing a u14 soccer game potentially means having to file for unemployment and find a new line of work all because some soccer daddy is trying to prop up his fragile ego trying to live vicariously through his daughter.  That is nuts.


That’s why originally, ECNL started at the older age groups. It got you past those “development” ages into when competition and recruiting should start to become more important.  At least that was the intention.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

Kicker4Life said:


> That’s why originally, ECNL started at the older age groups. It got you past those “development” ages into when competition and recruiting should start to become more important.  At least that was the intention.


Honestly that’s what should happen.  This year the 09’s get to step up to ECNL but I just don’t see a large enough pool of kids to fill all ECNL and ECRL teams.  The other challenge is that most 12 year old kids don’t have a clue of the commitment needed for ECNL.     It should start at 13 or 14 for the girls and 12 for the boys.


----------



## happy9

EOTL said:


> The other reason pro/rel is bad is that it really hurts development. Every coach will be playing to win every game instead of developing players, because losing a u14 soccer game potentially means having to file for unemployment and find a new line of work all because some soccer daddy is trying to prop up his fragile ego trying to live vicariously through his daughter.  That is nuts.


I suppose the development is in the eye of the beholder.  Most top clubs don't do a lot of developing, they do a lot of recruiting of the "developed" players from other clubs.    

Th rest of your statement is


----------



## happy9

Kicker4Life said:


> That’s why originally, ECNL started at the older age groups. It got you past those “development” ages into when competition and recruiting should start to become more important.  At least that was the intention.


dolla dolla bills.


----------



## Swoosh

happy9 said:


> dolla dolla bills.


I notice you are always talking about cost, wondering if you do this at restaurants and grocery stores as well.  The beauty of being a consumer is that you don’t have to part with your money, you can choose to spend it elsewhere!


----------



## Swoosh

happy9 said:


> I suppose the development is in the eye of the beholder.  Most top clubs don't do a lot of developing, they do a lot of recruiting of the "developed" players from other clubs.
> 
> Th rest of your statement is


Development happens well into the mid 20s.  Playing with better players day in and day out accelerates development.


----------



## happy9

Swoosh said:


> Development happens well into the mid 20s.  Playing with better players day in and day out accelerates development.


yes, and?


----------



## happy9

Swoosh said:


> I notice you are always talking about cost, wondering if you do this at restaurants and grocery stores as well.  The beauty of being a consumer is that you don’t have to part with your money, you can choose to spend it elsewhere!


Better articulate your point.


----------



## azsnowrider

oh canada said:


> Thanks.  We finally might actually have some stability around here for a few years from our league.  Let's enjoy that lack of drama.  Fingers crossed.


Good points as well and I like the take on it, but let me ask this question. In AZ we already basically have a Pro/Rel system in our St leagues. In our top St league the APL it's basically Bottom 2 out next top 2 in with an Application system thrown in. Then we have St league 1&2 that basically runs on the same principles. Does Cali not run a system similar for its St leagues? Why is it ok for one and not the other, Development still happens in the St Leagues right? I agree it will never happen, but wouldn't you agree as a club if your getting manhandled as a club on a consistent basis, maybe you don't belong anymore?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

azsnowrider said:


> Does Cali not run a system similar for its St leagues? Why is it ok for one and not the other, Development still happens in the St Leagues right? I agree it will never happen, but wouldn't you agree as a club if your getting manhandled as a club on a consistent basis, maybe you don't belong anymore?


Unfortunately it doesn’t for most leagues due to the following: 
- too many prized parents (especially in south oc -north San Diego area) demanding to be in the highest level at whatever price it takes. 

-there’s too much money to be made.
- clubs hyping up that ECNL dream to all parents.  Let’s face it, it’s the primary path but the ROI makes no sense unless you get more than 30%  scholarship money.  

the fact is pro-rel should exist and we should only have a handful of ECNL/DA teams.   Eliminate ECRL and condense the tiers. Wegave Flight 3,2,1, 1a,1b, ECRL, ECNl, DA, mls next, ayso, signature, bronze, silver, silver elite, gold, premier,  what else......


----------



## EOTL

happy9 said:


> I suppose the development is in the eye of the beholder.  Most top clubs don't do a lot of developing, they do a lot of recruiting of the "developed" players from other clubs.
> 
> Th rest of your statement is


Nonsense. That’s just what you tell yourself to justify being a cheapskate.


----------



## happy9

EOTL said:


> Nonsense. That’s just what you tell yourself to justify being a cheapskate.


Why a cheapskate?


----------



## MacDre

Swoosh said:


> Development happens well into the mid 20s.  Playing with better players day in and day out accelerates development.


True dat.  But you also can’t squeeze blood from a turnip.  You need players with the requisite genetics and drive to develop them well into their 20’s.  Nerds like Steve Urkle will have a much lower ceiling and will max out earlier...much earlier!


----------



## dad4

EOTL said:


> Nonsense. That’s just what you tell yourself to justify being a cheapskate.


Just a salesman in a cheap suit.

If you had a superior product, you wouldn’t invest so much in guild restrictions.  

Glad to see GA is doing well enough to force you to accept Beach and Legends.  Always nice to see competition.


----------



## EOTL

azsnowrider said:


> Good points as well and I like the take on it, but let me ask this question. In AZ we already basically have a Pro/Rel system in our St leagues. In our top St league the APL it's basically Bottom 2 out next top 2 in with an Application system thrown in. Then we have St league 1&2 that basically runs on the same principles. Does Cali not run a system similar for its St leagues? Why is it ok for one and not the other, Development still happens in the St Leagues right? I agree it will never happen, but wouldn't you agree as a club if your getting manhandled as a club on a consistent basis, maybe you don't belong anymore?


In AZ you do not have pro/rel. You have ECNL at the top, just like everywhere else. Sure you have some s**t leagues that put different teams into different brackets, just like everyone else, but that is not pro/rel since it does not have any impact on the top of the food chain. It’s just sorting the lower tiers who don’t matter. It’s pro/rel about as much as MLB and the minor leagues, meaning not at all. the 

Furthermore, AZ pretty much sucks at soccer, especially once you get out of ECNL, at least on the girls side. I doubt there is a single U15 or higher girls team in AZ that doesn’t play ECNL that wouldn’t lose to top SoCal ECNL clubs 20-0. It’s BS if you think there is nearly the same level of development going in. At least AZ’s ECNL can keep the score in the single digits. 

The other thing people like you and @happy9 magat fail to comprehend is that one of the most important factors in development is commitment, and not just commitment of your own kid. You need the same high level commitment from the coaching staff and teammates. That never happens in cheapskate leagues. You never get dedicated committed coaches because you don’t get the income necessary to secure high level coaches, so you get daddy ball part time coaches, and idiots willing to work for some s**t per diem. But go ahead and trust your kid to someone willing to make $8 an hour or sometimes less. 

The higher cost of ECNL means that players and families are also committed and serious about it, as they must for that kind of coin. Maybe everyone in AZ is a cheapskate who grew up ok with teammates skipping out all the time because it just isn’t that important to them, or their parents can’t focus on four practices a week because they have two jobs or are single parents, but that does not lead to good soccer develolment.

@happy9’s feelings about pro/rel prove exactly how dumb he is and why no one should believe anything he says. The mere fact that ECNL is highly successful and the vast majority (if not all) elite college girls soccer players come out of ECNL proves him wrong, no ifs ands or buts. The fact that the WNT in the ECNL era is the strongest it has ever been proves the same. The fact that ECNL killed off GDA in a few short years also proves the same. He can claim all he wants that everyone really learned all their development in AYSO when they were 9, bit we all know that’s BS. @happy9 is just another dumb magat who is wrong about everything all the time. His perspective is based on his subconscious irrational belief in American Individualism. He thinks that it’s just as likely a kid will develop into being great simply based on one’s own efforts, with no help from others. You can go to a s**t team, play for free under a daddy coach, and still have the same odds of becoming great as if you spent your formative years training consistently under professional coaches with the best, most dedicated teammates around four days a week for six years. BS. If that were true, why aren’t there there college All-Americans who did not play ECNL? If a kid could become great without ECNL, why isn’t it happening ever? It is because ECNL is where the development really happens.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MacDre said:


> True dat.  But you also can’t squeeze blood from a turnip.  You need players with the requisite genetics and drive to develop them well into their 20’s.  Nerds like Steve Urkle will have a much lower ceiling and will max out earlier...much earlier!


Hep me explain Harry Kane who was let go by the Youth Academy he played for because they thought  he was to “heavy” and slow?

Kane first played for a local club, Ridgeway Rovers, and joined the Arsenal youth academy when he was eight years old. He was released after one season for being "a bit chubby" and not "very athletic", according to Liam Brady who was then in charge of Arsenal's academy.[20]


----------



## EOTL

dad4 said:


> Just a salesman in a cheap suit.
> 
> If you had a superior product, you wouldn’t invest so much in guild restrictions.
> 
> Glad to see GA is doing well enough to force you to accept Beach and Legends.  Always nice to see competition.


ECNL will kill GA off as a potential competitor at the top level just like it did GDA. Why?  Because it is a far superior product. Professional coaching. Better and more consistent training. Better college opportunities. Better showcases. Better competition. It provides stability to families. It has better freakin’ everything.

The one mistake ECNL made that even opened the door to GDA, and which I pointed out when it happened, was that it was too selfish in SoCal about admitting qualified clubs. It is obviously a lesson learned and a mistake that will not happen again. And it will benefit Legends and Beach tremendously.


----------



## happy9

EOTL said:


> In AZ you do not have pro/rel. You have ECNL at the top, just like everywhere else. Sure you have some s**t leagues that put different teams into different brackets, just like everyone else, but that is not pro/rel since it does not have any impact on the top of the food chain. It’s just sorting the lower tiers who don’t matter. It’s pro/rel about as much as MLB and the minor leagues, meaning not at all. the
> 
> Furthermore, AZ pretty much sucks at soccer, especially once you get out of ECNL, at least on the girls side. I doubt there is a single U15 or higher girls team in AZ that doesn’t play ECNL that wouldn’t lose to top SoCal ECNL clubs 20-0. It’s BS if you think there is nearly the same level of development going in. At least AZ’s ECNL can keep the score in the single digits.
> 
> The other thing people like you and @happy9 magat fail to comprehend is that one of the most important factors in development is commitment, and not just commitment of your own kid. You need the same high level commitment from the coaching staff and teammates. That never happens in cheapskate leagues. You never get dedicated committed coaches because you don’t get the income necessary to secure high level coaches, so you get daddy ball part time coaches, and idiots willing to work for some s**t per diem. But go ahead and trust your kid to someone willing to make $8 an hour or sometimes less.
> 
> The higher cost of ECNL means that players and families are also committed and serious about it, as they must for that kind of coin. Maybe everyone in AZ is a cheapskate who grew up ok with teammates skipping out all the time because it just isn’t that important to them, or their parents can’t focus on four practices a week because they have two jobs or are single parents, but that does not lead to good soccer develolment.
> 
> @happy9’s feelings about pro/rel prove exactly how dumb he is and why no one should believe anything he says. The mere fact that ECNL is highly successful and the vast majority (if not all) elite college girls soccer players come out of ECNL proves him wrong, no ifs ands or buts. The fact that the WNT in the ECNL era is the strongest it has ever been proves the same. The fact that ECNL killed off GDA in a few short years also proves the same. He can claim all he wants that everyone really learned all their development in AYSO when they were 9, bit we all know that’s BS. @happy9 is just another dumb magat who is wrong about everything all the time. His perspective is based on his subconscious irrational belief in American Individualism. He thinks that it’s just as likely a kid will develop into being great simply based on one’s own efforts, with no help from others. You can go to a s**t team, play for free under a daddy coach, and still have the same odds of becoming great as if you spent your formative years training consistently under professional coaches with the best, most dedicated teammates around four days a week for six years. BS. If that were true, why aren’t there there college All-Americans who did not play ECNL? If a kid could become great without ECNL, why isn’t it happening ever? It is because ECNL is where the development really happens.


Do you work for ECNL? I didn't know you were an expert in AZ girls soccer...nice


----------



## VegasParent

Desert Hound said:


> The fact 3 big clubs in the SW leave GA to ECNL tells you what they think the top league is. After all why leave GA?


I think a better question is why didn't ECNL let them in last year? Specifically Beach and Legends. This was clearly the league they wanted which is why their tops teams were in ECRL. They barely played any games this season so ECNL can't say they earned their spot from play on the field. This was clearly to damage GA in the SW and I can't blame the strategy of it. I would do the same if I ran ECNL. Actually I would have added them last year.


----------



## zags77

So if 18 is too big for SW conference league, what is the right number?  With Beach and Legends in who would you remove from the current landscape?  Some smaller clubs are going to have a hard time pulling kids in now with the new landscape.  The south bay just shifted back to Beach as the #1 option.  Also assuming Pats, WC and LA surf stay in ECRL what is the pitch for them to put their top teams in the league?  Wasnt the talk for 2020-2021 that if you performed in ECRL you would have a chance to be promoted to ECNL?


----------



## MacDre

Kicker4Life said:


> Hep me explain Harry Kane who was let go by the Youth Academy he played for because they thought  he was to “heavy” and slow?
> 
> Kane first played for a local club, Ridgeway Rovers, and joined the Arsenal youth academy when he was eight years old. He was released after one season for being "a bit chubby" and not "very athletic", according to Liam Brady who was then in charge of Arsenal's academy.[20]


You are making the same mistake that the coaches that overlooked Simon Kjaer made because you are looking at the wrong criteria to select elite players.
Harry Kane was always good enough because he was good enough to be selected into the academy.  Once he was selected into the Academy the most important criteria is whether or not he has the DRIVE to put in extra work consistently.  The academy that released Kane made the same mistake that the Oakland A’s made because they were selecting talent based on speed and power.  If Kane was evaluated on his work ethic the result would’ve been different.  So, according to Ankersen, Kane was overlooked because the wrong criteria was used.


----------



## Desert Hound

MacDre said:


> True dat.  But you also can’t squeeze blood from a turnip.  You need players with the requisite genetics and drive to develop them well into their 20’s.  Nerds like Steve Urkle will have a much lower ceiling and will max out earlier...much earlier!


Hey shouldn't you mainly be posting in the Tijuana Soccer section? Xolos Youth Soccer subsection? hehe


----------



## Kicker4Life

MacDre said:


> You are making the same mistake that the coaches that overlooked Simon Kjaer made because you are looking at the wrong criteria to select elite players.
> Harry Kane was always good enough because he was good enough to be selected into the academy.  Once he was selected into the Academy the most important criteria is whether or not he has the DRIVE to put in extra work consistently.  The academy that released Kane made the same mistake that the Oakland A’s made because they were selecting talent based on speed and power.  If Kane was evaluated on his work ethic the result would’ve been different.  So, according to Ankersen, Kane was overlooked because the wrong criteria was used.


Read further into his bio. Even once he made it on to talk to him he was loaned out multiple times because they did not feel he was a first team player. Until punch in Tina Kim on saw something in him and gave him a chance that he became one of the England’s top scorers.   

My point being there is no one blanket rule there are always exceptions


----------



## Desert Hound

VegasParent said:


> Actually I would have added them last year.


I would have added them last year as well. Seems silly that they didn't. 

And as you say GA is damaged in the SW. They started of with the most of the weakest of the former DA teams in the SW. And now the 3 best clubs they had have left, leaving a rather weak bunch of clubs overall. 

I wonder who GA will add. They cannot stay at 7 clubs can they?


----------



## Desert Hound

zags77 said:


> Wasnt the talk for 2020-2021 that if you performed in ECRL you would have a chance to be promoted to ECNL?


That certainly was the pitch. Or at least that was the theory that was talked a lot about on this forum.


----------



## VegasParent

Desert Hound said:


> I would have added them last year as well. Seems silly that they didn't.
> 
> And as you say GA is damaged in the SW. They started of with the most of the weakest of the former DA teams in the SW. And now the 3 best clubs they had have left, leaving a rather weak bunch of clubs overall.
> 
> I wonder who GA will add. They cannot stay at 7 clubs can they?


My guess is maybe SD Force and SDSC. Maybe LVSA here in Vegas to get back to ten


----------



## LASoccerMom

zags77 said:


> The south bay just shifted back to Beach as the #1 option.


Beach as #1 in South Bay? Who else is left in South Bay? Have small clubs survived the shut down? At least one AYSO United team moved to Beach.


----------



## Soccerfan2

MacDre said:


> You are making the same mistake that the coaches that overlooked Simon Kjaer made because you are looking at the wrong criteria to select elite players.
> Harry Kane was always good enough because he was good enough to be selected into the academy.  Once he was selected into the Academy the most important criteria is whether or not he has the DRIVE to put in extra work consistently.  The academy that released Kane made the same mistake that the Oakland A’s made because they were selecting talent based on speed and power.  If Kane was evaluated on his work ethic the result would’ve been different.  So, according to Ankersen, Kane was overlooked because the wrong criteria was used.


I heard Abby Wambach speak to this question once. She commented that over the years she’d seen all kinds of players around her rise and fall, some with more skill, some with more athleticism, etc. Even motivation/drive is not a fixed quality. It changes over time. The same reason you can’t predict the weather or production output perfectly applies to picking successful athletes ahead of time. There are too many variables involved in the system. You can center on any one quality or set of qualities as most important, but every one of them is subject to outside forces.


----------



## Goforgoal

VegasParent said:


> My guess is maybe SD Force and SDSC. Maybe LVSA here in Vegas to get back to ten


Yep I'd agree that this is the logical probable outcome, given they were added to DPL this past season. I could actually also see SD Force merging into the SDSC/Surf affiliation or just folding into Surf, although the latter seems unlikely.

Losing Beach and Legends sucks for the GA but if you didn't see this coming you weren't paying attention. This was likely decided between club Docs and ECNL in the Spring or early Summer of last year (handshake wink wink). Beach and Legends both putting their first teams in ECRL was all you needed to know.


----------



## Desert Hound

VegasParent said:


> My guess is maybe SD Force and SDSC. Maybe LVSA here in Vegas to get back to ten


That would be interesting in the sense that 4 of the 10 clubs would be in the San Diego area.


----------



## zags77

LASoccerMom said:


> Beach as #1 in South Bay? Who else is left in South Bay? Have small clubs survived the shut down? At least one AYSO United team moved to Beach.


When the DA collapsed the LAG shut down it the closest option for some players at that point for ECNL was LA Breakers.


----------



## futboldad1

zags77 said:


> So if 18 is too big for SW conference league, what is the right number?  With Beach and Legends in who would you remove from the current landscape?  Some smaller clubs are going to have a hard time pulling kids in now with the new landscape.  The south bay just shifted back to Beach as the #1 option.  Also assuming Pats, WC and LA surf stay in ECRL what is the pitch for them to put their top teams in the league?  Wasnt the talk for 2020-2021 that if you performed in ECRL you would have a chance to be promoted to ECNL?


I think 18 is a perfect number from a talent and geography balance for the three SW states..... who the additional club is we will see....if there is one at all.....but going past 18 you will see dilution...... remember when ecnl was 12 clubs and DA was 14 that was 26 elite teams per age group in Sw region and talent was spread too thin.....


----------



## dad4

EOTL said:


> ECNL will kill GA off as a potential competitor at the top level just like it did GDA. Why?  Because it is a far superior product. Professional coaching. Better and more consistent training. Better college opportunities. Better showcases. Better competition. It provides stability to families. It has better freakin’ everything.
> 
> The one mistake ECNL made that even opened the door to GDA, and which I pointed out when it happened, was that it was too selfish in SoCal about admitting qualified clubs. It is obviously a lesson learned and a mistake that will not happen again. And it will benefit Legends and Beach tremendously.


The ECNL coaches are better than the GDA coaches and the GA coaches?

Wow.  It must be one heck of an HR burden to rehire a whole slate of coaches every time a club changes leagues.  You gotta feel bad for whoever runs HR for Legends.  He just finished hiring new coaches for GA, and now he has to hire new people all over again.  After all, GA coaches, GDA coaches, and ECNL coaches are completely different.  It’s not like you could find those three skill sets all in one person.

Or, maybe, the coaches are the same, and EOTL is a salesman trying to draw a distinction where none exists.

ECNL had a chance to kill GA.  All they had to do was offer membership to every top club in the soccerwire top 20.  Someone else even drew up the list for them.

But, ECNL was incapable of setting aside their petty greivances long enough to act in their own self interest.  They still are.  If ECNL actually wanted to kill off GA, they would have invited the rest of the top clubs, like Top Hat.


----------



## futboldad1

zags77 said:


> When the DA collapsed the LAG shut down it the closest option for some players at that point for ECNL was LA Breakers.


Beach FC have the South Bay to themselves with the Galaxy shut down...... the Galaxy girls scattered between Beach, Breakers, Slammers, Blues and Real in roughly that order...... I think Beach got the most overall Galaxy benefit and they definitely did in my DDs 06 age group where most of the team went together..... our Real 06 added a really strong player from the Galaxy deal but nothing like how many Beach got...... the Beach top teams are full of talent that either stayed and went there when Beach was ECRL so I don’t predict much movement to or from them...... my prediction is just a great season ahead and hopefully without this disease!


----------



## MacDre

Soccerfan2 said:


> I heard Abby Wambach speak to this question once. She commented that over the years she’d seen all kinds of players around her rise and fall, some with more skill, some with more athleticism, etc. Even motivation/drive is not a fixed quality. It changes over time. The same reason you can’t predict the weather or production output perfectly applies to picking successful athletes ahead of time. There are too many variables involved in the system. You can center on any one quality or set of qualities as most important, but every one of them is subject to outside forces.


I have never coached or taken a parenting class but I used to help train dogs for law enforcement.  I recall folks spending up to 10k on a dog and bonding with it.  But when they came to me with their expensive Belgium Malinois, they’d get all pissed off when I’d tell them that they had a “pet quality” dog and not a “working” dog because their dog lacked drive.  I studied lots of animal behavior and operant conditioning while working with dogs.  I think animal behavior is applicable to youth sports and I think drive is fixed but can be improved if you have the correct motivational tool.  For dogs it’s either praise or food.  Not exactly sure what motivational tool enhances or maintains drive for kids but I am relatively certain drive is identifiable and consistent.


----------



## dad4

MacDre said:


> I have never coached or taken a parenting class but I used to help train dogs for law enforcement.  I recall folks spending up to 10k on a dog and bonding with it.  But when they came to me with their expensive Belgium Malinois, they’d get all pissed off when I’d tell them that they had a “pet quality” dog and not a “working” dog because their dog lacked drive.  I studied lots of animal behavior and operant conditioning while working with dogs.  I think animal behavior is applicable to youth sports and I think drive is fixed but can be improved if you have the correct motivational tool.  For dogs it’s either praise or food.  Not exactly sure what motivational tool enhances or maintains drive for kids but I am relatively certain drive is identifiable and consistent.


It’s praise and food with kids, too.


----------



## LASTMAN14

dad4 said:


> The ECNL coaches are better than the GDA coaches and the GA coaches?
> 
> Wow.  It must be one heck of an HR burden to rehire a whole slate of coaches every time a club changes leagues.  You gotta feel bad for whoever runs HR for Legends.  He just finished hiring new coaches for GA, and now he has to hire new people all over again.  After all, GA coaches, GDA coaches, and ECNL coaches are completely different.  It’s not like you could find those three skill sets all in one person.
> 
> Or, maybe, the coaches are the same, and EOTL is a salesman trying to draw a distinction where none exists.
> 
> ECNL had a chance to kill GA.  All they had to do was offer membership to every top club in the soccerwire top 20.  Someone else even drew up the list for them.
> 
> But, ECNL was incapable of setting aside their petty greivances long enough to act in their own self interest.  They still are.  If ECNL actually wanted to kill off GA, they would have invited the rest of the top clubs, like Top Hat.


We all know these coaches are the same individuals that ebbed and flowed in and out of the two leagues. Whether prior, during, after, or now.


----------



## LASoccerMom

futboldad1 said:


> Beach FC have the South Bay to themselves with the Galaxy shut down...... the Galaxy girls scattered between Beach, Breakers, Slammers, Blues and Real in roughly that order...... I think Beach got the most overall Galaxy benefit and they definitely did in my DDs 06 age group where most of the team went together..... our Real 06 added a really strong player from the Galaxy deal but nothing like how many Beach got...... the Beach top teams are full of talent that either stayed and went there when Beach was ECRL so I don’t predict much movement to or from them...... my prediction is just a great season ahead and hopefully without this disease!


Glad a lot of the Galaxy 06s stuck together. They were a fun team to watch.


----------



## Surf Zombie

“If ECNL actually wanted to kill off GA, they would have invited the rest of the top clubs, like Top Hat.”

I can’t speak to ECNL’s motivations, but there Is another group of clubs that are going to be admitted for next year and from what I was told
Top Hat is very much still in contention for one of those spots.


----------



## dad4

Surf Zombie said:


> “If ECNL actually wanted to kill off GA, they would have invited the rest of the top clubs, like Top Hat.”
> 
> I can’t speak to ECNL’s motivations, but there Is another group of clubs that are going to be admitted for next year and from what I was told
> Top Hat is very much still in contention for one of those spots.


Hope so.  Would be nice to have everyone under one umbrella.


----------



## azsnowrider

EOTL said:


> In AZ you do not have pro/rel. You have ECNL at the top, just like everywhere else. Sure you have some s**t leagues that put different teams into different brackets, just like everyone else, but that is not pro/rel since it does not have any impact on the top of the food chain. It’s just sorting the lower tiers who don’t matter. It’s pro/rel about as much as MLB and the minor leagues, meaning not at all. the
> 
> Furthermore, AZ pretty much sucks at soccer, especially once you get out of ECNL, at least on the girls side. I doubt there is a single U15 or higher girls team in AZ that doesn’t play ECNL that wouldn’t lose to top SoCal ECNL clubs 20-0. It’s BS if you think there is nearly the same level of development going in. At least AZ’s ECNL can keep the score in the single digits.
> 
> The other thing people like you and @happy9 magat fail to comprehend is that one of the most important factors in development is commitment, and not just commitment of your own kid. You need the same high level commitment from the coaching staff and teammates. That never happens in cheapskate leagues. You never get dedicated committed coaches because you don’t get the income necessary to secure high level coaches, so you get daddy ball part time coaches, and idiots willing to work for some s**t per diem. But go ahead and trust your kid to someone willing to make $8 an hour or sometimes less.
> 
> The higher cost of ECNL means that players and families are also committed and serious about it, as they must for that kind of coin. Maybe everyone in AZ is a cheapskate who grew up ok with teammates skipping out all the time because it just isn’t that important to them, or their parents can’t focus on four practices a week because they have two jobs or are single parents, but that does not lead to good soccer develolment.
> 
> @happy9’s feelings about pro/rel prove exactly how dumb he is and why no one should believe anything he says. The mere fact that ECNL is highly successful and the vast majority (if not all) elite college girls soccer players come out of ECNL proves him wrong, no ifs ands or buts. The fact that the WNT in the ECNL era is the strongest it has ever been proves the same. The fact that ECNL killed off GDA in a few short years also proves the same. He can claim all he wants that everyone really learned all their development in AYSO when they were 9, bit we all know that’s BS. @happy9 is just another dumb magat who is wrong about everything all the time. His perspective is based on his subconscious irrational belief in American Individualism. He thinks that it’s just as likely a kid will develop into being great simply based on one’s own efforts, with no help from others. You can go to a s**t team, play for free under a daddy coach, and still have the same odds of becoming great as if you spent your formative years training consistently under professional coaches with the best, most dedicated teammates around four days a week for six years. BS. If that were true, why aren’t there there college All-Americans who did not play ECNL? If a kid could become great without ECNL, why isn’t it happening ever? It is because ECNL is where the development really happens.


Wow, you got all that from a few sentences? I'll say this, does play in a Letter league, does play in a system where my player has played/trained with arguably some of the best coaches in AZ, does practice 3-4 times a week along with privates and fitness, does have failures/success and has not given up, has given up a social life at times for soccer, and with the failures and setbacks still shows up with a good attitude. So don't preach to me about commitment and about being in a system which requires commitment. Not sure why you lumped me into this, but I am far from being a cheapskate I pay my fees and do so without question. The money I have spent could have paid for a good portion of college probably, and I don't regret it ONE BIT. Do we discuss it sure, regret it NO! The joy my player has is worth the price of admission. Part of me wants to tell you to go Fuck yourself but that's not my style, I prefer a more grounded conversation instead of the argumentative style you seem to always have on every topic. You might want to see someone about your anger issues. So enjoy the day were on the right side of the grass, and we only get to see our children enjoy this journey for a short time.


----------



## MacDre

Hope y’all don’t mind if a casual outside observer plays devils advocate.

I think GAL just outmaneuvered ECNL and this is the beginning of the end for ECNL.  I think USSF wanted to put all potential threats under one umbrella so they know which leadership groups to exclude in the future.  This current group of kids will rotate out of the system soon, so it doesn’t matter much that ECNL currently has an advantage.

The new club soccer leadership will be with GAL.  GAL will attract the next generation of players because they will hold the key to YNT call ups.

Can somebody please tell me why this ain’t so?


----------



## Desert Hound

happy9 said:


> Del Sols weakness is their numbers


I think them being relegated in the Phx area to the 4th option going forward hurts their prospects greatly. 

Again I am not talking about parents jumping ship (some I am sure will). I refer to the recruiting wars to bring in the first age groups as they age into GA/ECNL age groups. 

I think this will make their numbers issue worse over the next few years. 

Boys side with MLS Next they should be fine.


----------



## dad4

MacDre said:


> Hope y’all don’t mind if a casual outside observer plays devils advocate.
> 
> I think GAL just outmaneuvered ECNL and this is the beginning of the end for ECNL.  I think USSF wanted to put all potential threats under one umbrella so they know which leadership groups to exclude in the future.  This current group of kids will rotate out of the system soon, so it doesn’t matter much that ECNL currently has an advantage.
> 
> The new club soccer leadership will be with GAL.  GAL will attract the next generation of players because they will hold the key to YNT call ups.
> 
> Can somebody please tell me why this ain’t so?


Because, at least in Norcal and Socal, the feeder teams for GA look weaker than the feeder teams for ECNL.

And the YNT card is limited.  USSF can hamstring the YNT by playing call up games again.  But it doesn’t help much.  If USSF is subtle, parents don’t notice.  Of they are blatant, ECNL dusts off their plans for an all star team.  It’s not like an ECNL all star team would have trouble finding impressive sounding international opponents.


----------



## lafalafa

ECNL on the boys side introduced or proposed a two flight system last year after SW expanded to the what 16-18 teams depending on age group not just geographic brackets.

Was going to be a "white" flight with newer or lower rank clubs or teams and the regular flight with 8-9 in each. Was scrapped or postpone to to the pandemic but wonder if that might be brought back for the olders at least so there's more balance.  Some clubs have or will have two teams in like Golden State east and west and others like Surf trying to get multiple teams in beyond ECRL.


----------



## MacDre

dad4 said:


> Because, at least in Norcal and Socal, the feeder teams for GA look weaker than the feeder teams for ECNL.
> 
> And the YNT card is limited.  USSF can hamstring the YNT by playing call up games again.  But it doesn’t help much.  If USSF is subtle, parents don’t notice.  Of they are blatant, ECNL dusts off their plans for an all star team.  It’s not like an ECNL all star team would have trouble finding impressive sounding international opponents.


Yeah, but under this scenario couldn’t USSF still attract the top %20 of players by dangling the YNT carrot making ECNL and their ALL Star team a second tier league?


----------



## Kicker4Life

MacDre said:


> The new club soccer leadership will be with GAL.  GAL will attract the next generation of players because they will hold the key to YNT call ups.


What makes you think this?


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> I think them being relegated in the Phx area to the 4th option going forward hurts their prospects greatly.
> 
> Again I am not talking about parents jumping ship (some I am sure will). I refer to the recruiting wars to bring in the first age groups as they age into GA/ECNL age groups.
> 
> I think this will make their numbers issue worse over the next few years.
> 
> Boys side with MLS Next they should be fine.


It could, especially with parents who place the highest value overall to player platform - which is valid.  They have some work to do, as well as the GA to prove their value in contrast to ECNL. 

I don't think the current group of parents will jump ship, unless they are unhappy with their playing time.  They run small rosters as it is.  If you think your player can get more playing time on a larger roster, then so be it. 

 Historically Del Sol loses players who's parents think they should have made the top team but were offered a spot on the DPL/state league team. It's their right and their choice.  Some parents have kept their kids on the DPL teams and have seen then develop and gain spots on the top teams.  Just the way it goes I guess. 

But to your point, they will have to up their game to recruit the up and coming GA/ECNL age groups.  They've always recruited well.  They will certainly leverage the success of their current batch of age groups and their college endeavors.  We shall see.  Grab the popcorn and watch.


----------



## dad4

MacDre said:


> Yeah, but under this scenario couldn’t USSF still attract the top %20 of players by dangling the YNT carrot making ECNL and their ALL Star team a second tier league?


Sure.   You'll get some kids chasing YNT, just like ECNL gets kids chasing the badge.  But you get a few kids, not the entire top 20%. 

So, YNT is the high trump, but it is only good for one trick.  The rest is determined by the other cards in play.


----------



## MacDre

Kicker4Life said:


> What makes you think this?


Because USSF controls the YNT and GA is sponsored/affiliated with USSF.  So if I was running USSF, I would want the top %20 of players training under one umbrella.  I would also want loyalty to my philosophy from club leadership and it’s easier to get loyalty from up and coming clubs that you help make it.  As opposed to old established ECNL clubs that want to fight every step of the way.  With all the top clubs under the ECNL umbrella now, killing off their leadership groups will be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.


----------



## happy9

azsnowrider said:


> Wow, you got all that from a few sentences? I'll say this, does play in a Letter league, does play in a system where my player has played/trained with arguably some of the best coaches in AZ, does practice 3-4 times a week along with privates and fitness, does have failures/success and has not given up, has given up a social life at times for soccer, and with the failures and setbacks still shows up with a good attitude. So don't preach to me about commitment and about being in a system which requires commitment. Not sure why you lumped me into this, but I am far from being a cheapskate I pay my fees and do so without question. The money I have spent could have paid for a good portion of college probably, and I don't regret it ONE BIT. Do we discuss it sure, regret it NO! The joy my player has is worth the price of admission. Part of me wants to tell you to go Fuck yourself but that's not my style, I prefer a more grounded conversation instead of the argumentative style you seem to always have on every topic. You might want to see someone about your anger issues. So enjoy the day were on the right side of the grass, and we only get to see our children enjoy this journey for a short time.


he just felt left out.  Can't help himself.   And if the cheapskate tag was directed at me.. I'm fine with that.  He can call it cheapskate, I call it being efficient with the dollars.  Kinda like running a business.  Something he likely knows nothing about.  But anyway, he can't help himself.  It's a by product  of realizing your lack of relevance in general to anything.


----------



## LASTMAN14

LASoccerMom said:


> Glad a lot of the Galaxy 06s stuck together. They were a fun team to watch.


10 are at Beach.


----------



## MacDre

dad4 said:


> Sure.   You'll get some kids chasing YNT, just like ECNL gets kids chasing the badge.  But you get a few kids, not the entire top 20%.
> 
> So, YNT is the high trump, but it is only good for one trick.  The rest is determined by the other cards in play.


Okay, GAL can go all in and say Fully funded for the top 20% only.  The other 80% that pay are paying for the benefit of practicing with the top 20%.


----------



## dad4

MacDre said:


> Okay, GAL can go all in and say Fully funded for the top 20% only.  The other 80% that pay are paying for the benefit of practicing with the top 20%.


You writing the checks for that?  Because USSF would have trouble ordering pizza from Domino’s right now.


----------



## MacDre

dad4 said:


> You writing the checks for that?  Because USSF would have trouble ordering pizza from Domino’s right now.


The 80% that pay can subsidize the 20% that are fully funded.


----------



## Soccer43

I didn't know that GAL was associated or supported by USSF?  I thought GAL was just all the clubs that got dumped by USSF's terrible DA system trying to stay meaningful by creating this new league but thought it was separate.


----------



## LASoccerMom

LASTMAN14 said:


> 10 are at Beach.


Where did Beach's 06 DA team go? It was not nearly as strong as the Galaxy team. Did they move within the club or move to Breakers, Slammers, etc? I know 07s moved from Galaxy's top team to Beach with their coach and a bunch of Beach players joined the 07 Galaxy DA team that then evaporated. Some came back to Beach, but had to accept spots on lower level teams. This whole year has been so odd.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MacDre said:


> Because USSF controls the YNT and GA is sponsored/affiliated with USSF.  So if I was running USSF, I would want the top %20 of players training under one umbrella.  I would also want loyalty to my philosophy from club leadership and it’s easier to get loyalty from up and coming clubs that you help make it.  As opposed to old established ECNL clubs that want to fight every step of the way.  With all the top clubs under the ECNL umbrella now, killing off their leadership groups will be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.


Maybe you see something that I don’t.  I can’t seem to find any relationship between GA and US Soccer Federation.


----------



## Kicker4Life

LASoccerMom said:


> Where did Beach's 06 DA team go? It was not nearly as strong as the Galaxy team. Did they move within the club or move to Breakers, Slammers, etc? I know 07s moved from Galaxy's top team to Beach with their coach and a bunch of Beach players joined the 07 Galaxy DA team that then evaporated. Some came back to Beach, but had to accept spots on lower level teams. This whole year has been so odd.


The former Beach ‘06 Academy team was split.  7 stayed on the Academy (which became the ECRL team), plus one pulled up from the former DPL team and the rest were mixed in with some of the former DPL players to form the GA team.


----------



## MacDre

Kicker4Life said:


> Maybe you see something that I don’t.  I can’t seem to find any relationship between GA and US Soccer Federation.


I think you’re correct because I can’t either.


----------



## azsnowrider

happy9 said:


> he just felt left out.  Can't help himself.   And if the cheapskate tag was directed at me.. I'm fine with that.  He can call it cheapskate, I call it being efficient with the dollars.  Kinda like running a business.  Something he likely knows nothing about.  But anyway, he can't help himself.  It's a by product  of realizing your lack of relevance in general to anything.


Just know this Happy, the GA is playing right now in Texas. And get this, there are P-P-P-arents on the sideline... Cold, but games are being played. Makes em tough right?


----------



## Desert Hound

happy9 said:


> They run small rosters as it is. If you think your player can get more playing time on a larger roster, then so be it.


They run small rosters now over the past 2-3 yrs.

As I was tracking them and a few other clubs over the years, I ended up having rosters from years past. 4 yrs ago for instance their 04s and 03s were at 17-18 kids per age group.

The small rosters you see now is not something they have traditionally done. It is done because they are short. In the past they kept full rosters.

One of the reasons I kept track of different club rosters was to see who moved where.

With DA I used it to see how coaches used subs and gave out minutes.


----------



## happy9

Kicker4Life said:


> Maybe you see something that I don’t.  I can’t seem to find any relationship between GA and US Soccer Federation.


I don't think there is an official connection.  Their connection to USSF relies mainly on personal relationships with key players within USSF.  I'm sure ECNL and others have a similar relationship.

It appears there is a more direct connection to the youth talent folks at USSF.  I don't if that really matters or if something more will come out of it.  

Relationships are important.  We'll find out over the next year or so.  Plenty of posturing and nastiness will occur soon enough.


----------



## LASTMAN14

LASoccerMom said:


> Where did Beach's 06 DA team go? It was not nearly as strong as the Galaxy team. Did they move within the club or move to Breakers, Slammers, etc? I know 07s moved from Galaxy's top team to Beach with their coach and a bunch of Beach players joined the 07 Galaxy DA team that then evaporated. Some came back to Beach, but had to accept spots on lower level teams. This whole year has been so odd.


The club knew a change was needed. They kept about half the team from the original 06 team. All I think were offered spots within the club, but not sure if they stayed. The 07's were also a merger but not all the LAG players were offered spots. The club wanted to make it balanced between the two clubs. Addendum--I miscounted its 9 players.


----------



## happy9

azsnowrider said:


> Just know this Happy, the GA is playing right now in Texas. And get this, there are P-P-P-arents on the sideline... Cold, but games are being played. Makes em tough right?


I just checked out the live stream a bit ago.  They are playing...they are cold, but they are playing.  Good on them.  Have talked to several people today, people are watching (coaches, YNT staff, etc).  They are all starved for soccer.  Putting aside all league bickering (which I could really care less about), the ladies are playing.  Hopefully the ECNL ladies will get back on the pitch..  Leave all of the bickering to the parents.


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> They run small rosters now over the past 2-3 yrs.
> 
> As I was tracking them and a few other clubs over the years, I ended up having rosters from years past. 4 yrs ago for instance their 04s and 03s were at 17-18 kids per age group.
> 
> The small rosters you see now is not something they have traditionally done. It is done because they are short. In the past they kept full rosters.
> 
> One of the reasons I kept track of different club rosters was to see who moved where.
> 
> With DA I used it to see how coaches used subs and gave out minutes.


 Check out the disparity between FT and PT players.  If you pulled DA rosters from their website, it specifies FT/PT. 

 Game day rosters always small, PT players not always there and sometimes (mostly) not even in the state.  RSL did the same thing.


----------



## Anon9

GA is under USYS not USSF


----------



## Desert Hound

happy9 said:


> Check out the disparity between FT and PT players.  If you pulled DA rosters from their website, it specifies FT/PT.
> 
> Game day rosters always small, PT players not always there and sometimes (mostly) not even in the state.  RSL did the same thing.


I used to not only look at rosters, but paid special attention to game day rosters and minutes. Also I am very aware of FT vs PT since my kid played DA. 

In the past they had larger rosters at all age groups vs what you see now.


----------



## TigresFan

happy9 said:


> I just checked out the live stream a bit ago.  They are playing...they are cold, but they are playing.  Good on them.  Have talked to several people today, people are watching (coaches, YNT staff, etc).  They are all starved for soccer.  Putting aside all league bickering (which I could really care less about), the ladies are playing.  Hopefully the ECNL ladies will get back on the pitch..  Leave all of the bickering to the parents.


ECNL ladies are back on the pitch this weekend in San Diego. Thank you to Surf Cup Sports for arranging.


----------



## Swoosh

MacDre said:


> Hope y’all don’t mind if a casual outside observer plays devils advocate.
> 
> I think GAL just outmaneuvered ECNL and this is the beginning of the end for ECNL.  I think USSF wanted to put all potential threats under one umbrella so they know which leadership groups to exclude in the future.  This current group of kids will rotate out of the system soon, so it doesn’t matter much that ECNL currently has an advantage.
> 
> The new club soccer leadership will be with GAL.  GAL will attract the next generation of players because they will hold the key to YNT call ups.
> 
> Can somebody please tell me why this ain’t so?


Rather than using the GA, if they really wanted to control call ups, US Soccer could just make their own league...oh wait, they just did that, and oh wait, ECNL just took them out.  If ECNL can take out a federation sponsored league, I don't think they will be too concerned with much else.


----------



## Desert Hound

Desert Hound said:


> In the past they had larger rosters at all age groups vs what you see now.


I started paying attention to them when they still had ECNL and RSL was called Sereno and had ECNL. That was before my kid was old enough for the platform.


----------



## happy9

Swoosh said:


> Rather than using the GA, if they really wanted to control call ups, US Soccer could just make their own league...oh wait, they just did that, and oh wait, ECNL just took them out.  If ECNL can take out a federation sponsored league, I don't think they will be too concerned with much else.


Another ECNL employee? OH, I know, just another version of what's his name.


----------



## Swoosh

happy9 said:


> Another ECNL employee? OH, I know, just another version of what's his name.


Stating obvious facts.  I'm far from an ECNL employee.  Are you a GA fan?  Sorry if I shocked you with the facts.


----------



## EOTL

MacDre said:


> Hope y’all don’t mind if a casual outside observer plays devils advocate.
> 
> I think GAL just outmaneuvered ECNL and this is the beginning of the end for ECNL.  I think USSF wanted to put all potential threats under one umbrella so they know which leadership groups to exclude in the future.  This current group of kids will rotate out of the system soon, so it doesn’t matter much that ECNL currently has an advantage.
> 
> The new club soccer leadership will be with GAL.  GAL will attract the next generation of players because they will hold the key to YNT call ups.
> 
> Can somebody please tell me why this ain’t so?


ECNL crushed GDA/USSF like a grape, despite the huge advantage GDA had by virtue of the USSF label. It did so because ECNL was built on a brilliant and financially successful platform, while GDA made no financial sense. And GAL is much the same as GDA, only fewer benefits.

GAL does not and never will hold the key to YNT call ups by virtue of the fact that the vast majority of the best players play ECNL, and there is no way to pry them away. GDA’s failure proved that. USSF tried to limit call ups to GDA players and that went horribly wrong. Regardless, the draw of the YNT is highly overrated as a means of attracting the best players, as also proven by GDA, and it is a grave mistake to build a business model around maybe 20 of your 10,000 paying customers. There are only a handful of kids in each age group who have a shot at the YNT, and most of them don’t even know that when they first choose between ECNL and GAL. But there are tens of thousands who are doing this for college, and that is where ECNL excels and USSF and GAL fail miserably. College is the be all, end all for girls soccer and always will be. Admission to Stanford, or UCLA or Berkeley or USC or Ivies is worth somewhere between $200-500k to families even without scholarship money, whereas YNT call ups only cause kids missed school so that daddy’s fragile self-esteem can get a boost. If a GAL club pitches that they have a potential advantage to maybe possibly play on a YNT some day, while a GDA club says they’ve got Radcliffe and Cromwell on speed dial and they show up to about 10 games a year, that is no contest and it never will be for parents, even if stupid 2nd tier soccer clubs get starry-eyed and delusional that an affiliation with USSF will allow them to jump the line without doing the work or putting in the investment. Just like what happened with GDA.

In the end, USSF has no power over girls youth soccer. None. It got beat not only by ECNL, but also by HS soccer. It was ridiculous to tell 10,000 kids they can’t play HS soccer because maybe 20 might get to play on a YNT some day. In the end, SoCal Blues alone had more power over the elite youth soccer landscape than USSF.

ECNL also has an infrastructure that cannot be matched by GAL. It has the perfect mix of travel requirements, regional showcases, and high level competition to excel in a financially sustainable way, with carefully chosen clubs to maximize that advantage. GAL is a bunch of leftovers that, in many places, make no sense and will require shelling out thousands of dollars on travel to play s**ty teams, or saving money by not traveling, instead playing s**ty local teams, depending where you are. There is no getting over that hurdle. That was also part of GDA’s downfall, although SoCal didn’t really see it because unlike most regions, there was enough talent that it wasn’t necessary to get on planes to play decent competition. But as clubs in other regions learned quickly, flying to UT to play one league game was a joke. But not flying to UT, and instead beating local teams 6-0 or worse over and over again is also a joke.  That is the kind of impossible situation that many GAL clubs will be fighting constantly until they realize it is not sustainable and pack it in. 

There is only room for one national youth league. Period. There is plenty of space, however, for lower level regional leagues to succeed, but it is simply too expensive for clubs and families to justify it. Clubs are asking families to pay more than what is justified for the sake of these clubs trying to get to someday supplant ECNL. That is a terrible business model. A great business model would be for solid SoCal clubs to form a solid regional league and pitch it to families that they get nearly the same benefit without having to shell out the extra thousands on travel. But it could only work regionally because there are only two or three areas in the entire US that can conceivably provide enough high level teams without having to constantly travel hundreds of miles.  

Making an overly long story short, you can boil this down to the following:

1. If an elite CA team must get on a plane or drive more than 100 miles to play league games, the league will eventually fail.
2. If an elite CA team must get on a plane or drive more than 100 miles to play league games they won’t regularly win 6-0, the league will also fail.


----------



## happy9

Swoosh said:


> Stating obvious facts.  I'm far from an ECNL employee.  Are you a GA fan?  Sorry if I shocked you with the facts.


I don't pick tribes.  They are your facts and I rarely get into measuring contests.  Next question..


----------



## happy9

EOTL said:


> ECNL crushed GDA/USSF like a grape, despite the huge advantage GDA had by virtue of the USSF label. It did so because ECNL was built on a brilliant and financially successful platform, while GDA made no financial sense. And GAL is much the same as GDA, only fewer benefits.
> 
> GAL does not and never will hold the key to YNT call ups by virtue of the fact that the vast majority of the best players play ECNL, and there is no way to pry them away. GDA’s failure proved that. USSF tried to limit call ups to GDA players and that went horribly wrong. Regardless, the draw of the YNT is highly overrated as a means of attracting the best players, as also proven by GDA, and it is a grave mistake to build a business model around maybe 20 of your 10,000 paying customers. There are only a handful of kids in each age group who have a shot at the YNT, and most of them don’t even know that when they first choose between ECNL and GAL. But there are tens of thousands who are doing this for college, and that is where ECNL excels and USSF and GAL fail miserably. College is the be all, end all for girls soccer and always will be. Admission to Stanford, or UCLA or Berkeley or USC or Ivies is worth somewhere between $200-500k to families even without scholarship money, whereas YNT call ups only cause kids missed school so that daddy’s fragile self-esteem can get a boost. If a GAL club pitches that they have a potential advantage to maybe possibly play on a YNT some day, while a GDA club says they’ve got Radcliffe and Cromwell on speed dial and they show up to about 10 games a year, that is no contest and it never will be for parents, even if stupid 2nd tier soccer clubs get starry-eyed and delusional that an affiliation with USSF will allow them to jump the line without doing the work or putting in the investment. Just like what happened with GDA.
> 
> In the end, USSF has no power over girls youth soccer. None. It got beat not only by ECNL, but also by HS soccer. It was ridiculous to tell 10,000 kids they can’t play HS soccer because maybe 20 might get to play on a YNT some day. In the end, SoCal Blues alone had more power over the elite youth soccer landscape than USSF.
> 
> ECNL also has an infrastructure that cannot be matched by GAL. It has the perfect mix of travel requirements, regional showcases, and high level competition to excel in a financially sustainable way, with carefully chosen clubs to maximize that advantage. GAL is a bunch of leftovers that, in many places, make no sense and will require shelling out thousands of dollars on travel to play s**ty teams, or saving money by not traveling, instead playing s**ty local teams, depending where you are. There is no getting over that hurdle. That was also part of GDA’s downfall, although SoCal didn’t really see it because unlike most regions, there was enough talent that it wasn’t necessary to get on planes to play decent competition. But as clubs in other regions learned quickly, flying to UT to play one league game was a joke. But not flying to UT, and instead beating local teams 6-0 or worse over and over again is also a joke.  That is the kind of impossible situation that many GAL clubs will be fighting constantly until they realize it is not sustainable and pack it in.
> 
> There is only room for one national youth league. Period. There is plenty of space, however, for lower level regional leagues to succeed, but it is simply too expensive for clubs and families to justify it. Clubs are asking families to pay more than what is justified for the sake of these clubs trying to get to someday supplant ECNL. That is a terrible business model. A great business model would be for solid SoCal clubs to form a solid regional league and pitch it to families that they get nearly the same benefit without having to shell out the extra thousands on travel. But it could only work regionally because there are only two or three areas in the entire US that can conceivably provide enough high level teams without having to constantly travel hundreds of miles.
> 
> Making an overly long story short, you can boil this down to the following:
> 
> 1. If an elite CA team must get on a plane or drive more than 100 miles to play league games, the league will eventually fail.
> 2. If an elite CA team must get on a plane or drive more than 100 miles to play league games they won’t regularly win 6-0, the league will also fail.


Sounds to me like CA needs to abandon ECNL and do their own thing.  And I agree,  A CA team should never have to leave the state to play a league game, that's a no brainer.  If that's the case, why do you need ECNL at all?  Why have the middle man and the cost? 

You are brilliant, start the revolution, lead the charge to secede from ECNL and craft the CA girls soccer league.  Why wouldn't that be a good thing?


----------



## azsnowrider

happy9 said:


> Sounds to me like CA needs to abandon ECNL and do their own thing.  And I agree,  A CA team should never have to leave the state to play a league game, that's a no brainer.  If that's the case, why do you need ECNL at all?  Why have the middle man and the cost?
> 
> You are brilliant, start the revolution, lead the charge to secede from ECNL and craft the CA girls soccer league.  Why wouldn't that be a good thing?



Well I hope CA acts quickly to secede and start a new CA girls league. Based on this comment the ECNL is destined to fail.

_1. If an elite CA team must get on a plane or drive more than 100 miles to play league games, the league will eventually fail._

Better act quick folks the league is going to crumble because you have to drive more than 100 miles for a league game. Hey happy maybe we can get Nevada, Utah, New Mexico to team up and form our own league we will show them!


----------



## Kicker4Life

azsnowrider said:


> Well I hope CA acts quickly to secede and start a new CA girls league. Based on this comment the ECNL is destined to fail.
> 
> _1. If an elite CA team must get on a plane or drive more than 100 miles to play league games, the league will eventually fail._
> 
> Better act quick folks the league is going to crumble because you have to drive more than 100 miles for a league game. Hey happy maybe we can get Nevada, Utah, New Mexico to team up and form our own league we will show them!


We are a bit spoiled in SoCal.  If you look at the geographic range of the other Regions, the travel is mind boggling.


----------



## GeekKid

Kicker4Life said:


> We are a bit spoiled in SoCal.  If you look at the geographic range of the other Regions, the travel is mind boggling.


The Texas region travel is very palatable.  There are 6 teams in the DFW metroplex, two team in Oklahoma which drive time is 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours and then Austin and San Antonio which is about the same as the Oklahoma teams and then 2 Houston teams which is a 4 hour ride.  So same proximity as playing an opponent in Vegas.  Plus with SoCal traffic a trip down to San Diego could take 2-3 hours depending on traffic and yes I've experienced it!


----------



## Kicker4Life

GeekKid said:


> The Texas region travel is very palatable.  There are 6 teams in the DFW metroplex, two team in Oklahoma which drive time is 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours and then Austin and San Antonio which is about the same as the Oklahoma teams and then 2 Houston teams which is a 4 hour ride.  So same proximity as playing an opponent in Vegas.  Plus with SoCal traffic a trip down to San Diego could take 2-3 hours depending on traffic and yes I've experienced it!


When Eagles play surf that’s a 3 to 4 Hour commute as well Depending on the time of day.


----------



## GeekKid

Kicker4Life said:


> When Eagles play surf that’s a 3 to 4 Hour commute as well Depending on the time of day.


But you're right.  Some of the regions, Midwest and Southeast conferences and the Colorado, Alabama, Idaho and Utah team(s) have daunting travel times.


----------



## Messi>CR7

TigresFan said:


> ECNL ladies are back on the pitch this weekend in San Diego. Thank you to Surf Cup Sports for arranging.


Man, those greedy Surf people are always trying to get kids back on the pitch.  First the Surf Cup, now this.  Don't they ever stop?


----------



## tjinaz

EOTL said:


> Nonsense. That’s just what you tell yourself to justify being a cheapskate.


Maybe in Cali.  Here in AZ if you look at the top teams the majority did not start with that club and will have only moved there to get on the elite team.  Totally agree with Happy9 on that.  The argument actually could be made that the smaller clubs do better at development until about age 12 or 13 then the top players migrate away.


----------



## Surf Zombie

GeekKid said:


> The Texas region travel is very palatable.  There are 6 teams in the DFW metroplex, two team in Oklahoma which drive time is 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours and then Austin and San Antonio which is about the same as the Oklahoma teams and then 2 Houston teams which is a 4 hour ride.  So same proximity as playing an opponent in Vegas.  Plus with SoCal traffic a trip down to San Diego could take 2-3 hours depending on traffic and yes I've experienced it!


We are in Boston in the New England Conference. Three MA clubs about an hour apart. Two more in CT about 2 1/2 away. The Long Island teams are about 4 hours and PDA & World Class (just outside NYC) are also about 4 -4 1/2 hours.

Before the conference was split in half this year there were 9 other clubs as far south as Maryland, which was 10 hours by car. Not fun.


----------



## Surf Zombie

GeekKid said:


> But you're right.  Some of the regions, Midwest and Southeast conferences and the Colorado, Alabama, Idaho and Utah team(s) have daunting travel times.
> 
> View attachment 10091


Aside from the last two big name clubs in the eastern half of the country (Top Hat & FCV) I’d expect some additions in the Midwest & Ohio Valley conference. Those two regions have the worst travel and there are a handful of good clubs in those areas still on the outside looking in.
The New England, North Atlantic & Mid Atlantic regions are pretty well stacked.


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> I have never coached or taken a parenting class but I used to help train dogs for law enforcement.  I recall folks spending up to 10k on a dog and bonding with it.  But when they came to me with their expensive Belgium Malinois, they’d get all pissed off when I’d tell them that they had a “pet quality” dog and not a “working” dog because their dog lacked drive.  I studied lots of animal behavior and operant conditioning while working with dogs.  I think animal behavior is applicable to youth sports and I think drive is fixed but can be improved if you have the correct motivational tool.  For dogs it’s either praise or food.  Not exactly sure what motivational tool enhances or maintains drive for kids but I am relatively certain drive is identifiable and consistent.


Thanks for training these dogs for us.  Great option instead of shooting.


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> Hope y’all don’t mind if a casual outside observer plays devils advocate.
> 
> I think GAL just outmaneuvered ECNL and this is the beginning of the end for ECNL.  I think USSF wanted to put all potential threats under one umbrella so they know which leadership groups to exclude in the future.  This current group of kids will rotate out of the system soon, so it doesn’t matter much that ECNL currently has an advantage.
> 
> The new club soccer leadership will be with GAL.  GAL will attract the next generation of players because they will hold the key to YNT call ups.
> 
> Can somebody please tell me why this ain’t so?


Whoever has The List, they will follow and that league will be the bomb. 100%.  Socal parents and kids go for the top prize and that prize in being called upon to play for the U14 Woman's National Team Dre.  I agree, plus MLS.  This might repeat itself all over again.  The holy grail of all grails is making the list, moo!!!


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> Okay, GAL can go all in and say Fully funded for the top 20% only.  The other 80% that pay are paying for the benefit of practicing with the top 20%.


GAL sounds like GDA sort of.  I understand what your trying to point out.  ECNL is for college.


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> I don't think there is an official connection.  Their connection to USSF relies mainly on personal relationships with key players within USSF.  I'm sure ECNL and others have a similar relationship.
> 
> It appears there is a more direct connection to the youth talent folks at USSF.  I don't if that really matters or if something more will come out of it.
> 
> *Relationships are important.*  We'll find out over the next year or so.  Plenty of posturing and nastiness will occur soon enough.


Yes sir


----------



## crush

Swoosh said:


> Rather than using the GA, if they really wanted to control call ups, US Soccer could just make their own league...oh wait, they just did that, and oh wait, ECNL just took them out.  If ECNL can take out a federation sponsored league, I don't think they will be too concerned with much else.


I dont think ECNL took them out.  i think something a lot bigger did, Swoosh!!!


----------



## crush

tjinaz said:


> Maybe in Cali.  Here in AZ if you look at the top teams the majority did not start with that club and will have only moved there to get on the elite team.  Totally agree with Happy9 on that.  The argument actually could be made that the smaller clubs do better at development until about age 12 or 13 then the top players migrate away.


So true and when the other club is offering free this and free that and access to this, then you leave.  I hope that stops for the U12s and under.  Stop it!!!


----------



## crush

Hey Dre, slow moe this one flying in the air.  This was right here in OC a few years back.  Car Jacker got what he was asking for


----------



## MacDre

crush said:


> Hey Dre, slow moe this one flying in the air.  This was right here in OC a few years back.  Car Jacker got what he was asking for


Yep.  That’s why I call those dogs MALIGATORS.


----------



## sdb

MacDre said:


> Because USSF controls the YNT and GA is sponsored/affiliated with USSF.  So if I was running USSF, I would want the top %20 of players training under one umbrella.  I would also want loyalty to my philosophy from club leadership and it’s easier to get loyalty from up and coming clubs that you help make it.  As opposed to old established ECNL clubs that want to fight every step of the way.  With all the top clubs under the ECNL umbrella now, killing off their leadership groups will be as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.


In what way is GAL affiliated with USSF that ENCL is not?


----------



## MacDre

sdb said:


> In what way is GAL affiliated with USSF that ENCL is not?


It’s not.  I got that hypothetical all wrong.


----------



## El Clasico

Kicker4Life said:


> 1st, 2nd and 3rd Teams.  Where they put these teams may determine their future.  For example, if Pats puts its first team in GA, it will likely never gain entry into ECNL.


I don't see them gaining entry anyway.


----------



## LASTMAN14

tjinaz said:


> Maybe in Cali.  Here in AZ if you look at the top teams the majority did not start with that club and will have only moved there to get on the elite team.  Totally agree with Happy9 on that.  The argument actually could be made that the smaller clubs do better at development until about age 12 or 13 then the top players migrate away.


They no nothing in our region. Please ignore “PAT”.


----------



## LASTMAN14

El Clasico said:


> I don't see them gaining entry anyway.


I agree. But, why did WC get the early snub.


----------



## Glitterhater

tjinaz said:


> Maybe in Cali.  Here in AZ if you look at the top teams the majority did not start with that club and will have only moved there to get on the elite team.  Totally agree with Happy9 on that.  The argument actually could be made that the smaller clubs do better at development until about age 12 or 13 then the top players migrate away.


I agree with the latter part of this out here in Norcal too. Seems that it doesn't matter as much what club you're in up until kids move to 11v11. Then- it seens everyone clammors to SJ or Davis, (waay up in Norcal, not Bay area.)


----------



## GT45

LASTMAN14 said:


> I agree. But, why did WC get the early snub.


What snub? WC left ECNL for DA. They were a well below average club from the DA. Why would ECNL want them back? ECNL only brought top clubs from the SW back in (Surf, Real So Cal, Beach, Legends, Utah Royals (AZ).


----------



## LASTMAN14

GT45 said:


> What snub? WC left ECNL for DA. They were a well below average club from the DA. Why would ECNL want them back? ECNL only brought top clubs from the SW back in (Surf, Real So Cal, Beach, Legends, Utah Royals (AZ).


Relax. Why. Easy one. WC relations with ECNL was far more positive than clubs that left and were admitted. Or those that snubbed  them in DA.


----------



## LASTMAN14

LASTMAN14 said:


> Relax. Why. Easy one. WC relations with ECNL was far more positive than clubs that left and were admitted. Or those that snubbed  them in DA.


And, IMHO they have 2-3 of the best coaches in SoCal.


----------



## Swoosh

Messi>CR7 said:


> Man, those greedy Surf people are always trying to get kids back on the pitch.  First the Surf Cup, now this.  Don't they ever stop?


It’s all voluntary last I checked.


----------



## Surf Zombie

"When the DA ended," said *Christian Lavers*, president of the ECNL, which also runs a boys league that expanded in the wake of the Boys DA ending while MLS Next launched on the boys side. "Everybody was trying to get in, but we had real challenges with COVID, structure and timing. A lot of these clubs wanted in then when we couldn't put everyone in. Beach FC, Legends, Sporting Blue Valley, Sporting Iowa -- they all played in the ECNL regional leagues this year.

"We told these clubs, we're going to look at your performance in the regional league. Sporting Blue Valley and Sporting Iowa did very well in the regional league. That's why they're joining the ECNL. That is the pathway and transparency in place: Regional league to club competition. If a club struggles in the club competition, eventually they'll  likely be moved to a regional competition. ... Beach and Legends in California had challenges [with COVID restrictions], but they have a history of national success. ... Oklahoma Energy has obviously done well in general as a club."









						Latest shifts in post-DA girls soccer: ECNL and Girls Academy announce new members
					

The 2021-22 season will mark the ECNL Girls' 13th season and Girls Academy's second season. Both national leagues are expanding.




					www.socceramerica.com


----------



## crush

Glitterhater said:


> I agree with the latter part of this out here in Norcal too. Seems that it doesn't matter as much what club you're in up until kids move to 11v11. Then- it seens everyone clammors to SJ or Davis, (waay up in Norcal, not Bay area.)


Bingo Glitter Hater.  In socal back in the day at u10, every Doc that had ECNL was at State Cup to recruit all the Legends and Beach Players.  That's why we have a socal forum that is on fire today.  Beach and legends Docs and parents did not like that.  You see, clubs like Beach and Legends would have to get with all their U10 parents during State Cup to put out fires and tell kids to stay because GDA is coming soon.  I got the,  "The old man taking notes is crazy, does not develop, does not promote Training Center, ODP or even YNT and if you stay, you will miss out on the Holy Grail, The List!"  He would just say we have ECNL and that was a wrap for most super goats and their parents.  Now Beach and Legends can tell GSFC, CVC and all the smaller clubs in IE and LA that they have ECNL.  I would love to see the recruiting is going on.  I'm writing a book about all this btw so I will make sure you get a copy first  I have so many texts and emails, you will actually get a kick out of it, trust me


----------



## crush

LASTMAN14 said:


> And, IMHO they have 2-3 of the best coaches in SoCal.


West Coast needs to be in is all I can say.  Do it for the kids sake


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

crush said:


> West Coast needs to be in is all I can say.  Do it for the kids sake


Let them all in and let’s allow the free market to decide how many clubs will survive in the next 2 years.  Consolidation is happening this year and next.  Let’s face it, al youth sports have been on a decline for the past 5 years.  There’s no way SoCal can sustain 10-14 ECNL teams in the near future.


----------



## crush

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Let them all in and let’s allow the free market to decide how many clubs will survive in the next 2 years.  Consolidation is happening this year and next.  Let’s face it, al youth sports have been on a decline for the past 5 years.  There’s no way SoCal can sustain 10-14 ECNL teams in the near future.


How about a play in tournament for each age for all clubs who meet a basic standard in June.  I'm serious.


----------



## dad4

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Let them all in and let’s allow the free market to decide how many clubs will survive in the next 2 years.  Consolidation is happening this year and next.  Let’s face it, al youth sports have been on a decline for the past 5 years.  There’s no way SoCal can sustain 10-14 ECNL teams in the near future.


10-14 ECNL clubs might be that only way to reduce travel and keep costs low enough for customers.

I agree it doesn't sound the same to someone who thinks of ECNL as 60 clubs.  And it isn't.


----------



## azsnowrider

Surf Zombie said:


> "When the DA ended," said *Christian Lavers*, president of the ECNL, which also runs a boys league that expanded in the wake of the Boys DA ending while MLS Next launched on the boys side. "Everybody was trying to get in, but we had real challenges with COVID, structure and timing. A lot of these clubs wanted in then when we couldn't put everyone in. Beach FC, Legends, Sporting Blue Valley, Sporting Iowa -- they all played in the ECNL regional leagues this year.
> 
> "We told these clubs, we're going to look at your performance in the regional league. Sporting Blue Valley and Sporting Iowa did very well in the regional league. That's why they're joining the ECNL. That is the pathway and transparency in place: Regional league to club competition. If a club struggles in the club competition, eventually they'll  likely be moved to a regional competition. ... Beach and Legends in California had challenges [with COVID restrictions], but they have a history of national success. ... Oklahoma Energy has obviously done well in general as a club."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Latest shifts in post-DA girls soccer: ECNL and Girls Academy announce new members
> 
> 
> The 2021-22 season will mark the ECNL Girls' 13th season and Girls Academy's second season. Both national leagues are expanding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.socceramerica.com


So what you are saying is that Christian Lavers himself the Head Honcho at ECNL is making comments about moving struggling teams in the ECNL to the regional leagues? It's his words right? I read the article, so that tells me they are having discussions/conversations/idea sharing which sure sounds like a relegation type system to me. Makes sense actually this way they can allow in top performing clubs without inflating the numbers to much. The anti relegation crowd will start soon, and thats fine. Can't deny the man's words.


----------



## dad4

azsnowrider said:


> So what you are saying is that Christian Lavers himself the Head Honcho at ECNL is making comments about moving struggling teams in the ECNL to the regional leagues? It's his words right? I read the article, so that tells me they are having discussions/conversations/idea sharing which sure sounds like a relegation type system to me. Makes sense actually this way they can allow in top performing clubs without inflating the numbers to much. The anti relegation crowd will start soon, and thats fine. Can't deny the man's words.


I think he’s talking more about promotion than relegation.  And it’s by club, not team.  but, yes.


----------



## crush

dad4 said:


> I think he’s talking more about promotion than relegation.  And it’s by club, not team.  but, yes.


Any Nocal u10 scores bro in Nocal USL?  Come on man, if your kids love soccer you know you let them out to ball, dont you?  Tell truth dad.....


----------



## SoccerLocker

When ECNL clubs migrated to DA, they were replaced with new clubs.  These clubs made up most of the bottom third at each age group the last 2-3 years.  You just didn't see lopsided SW scores this year as there weren't any games.  

Go look at Solars or Real Colorado U17. Lots of 4-0, 5-0, 6-0, 7-0 scorelines. Same thing people here mocked in the SW GA conference (where 2 of the 3 new ECNL adds played 2nd teams) is happening in ECNL. You might say Texas or Pac NW isn't the mighty SW conference, and you would be right. They are better at the top (ECNL Phoenix, anyone?), and they should be clamoring for GA teams to move back.

Lavers is laying it out:  Help us hamstring GA vie ECRL or be really strong and we will welcome you back.  We will also add pro/rel to deal with the teams we let in during DA.


----------



## azsnowrider

dad4 said:


> I think he’s talking more about promotion than relegation.  And it’s by club, not team.  but, yes.


Your right I meant Clubs not teams, I have Teams on the brain for some reason.  He was talking about promotion of those clubs that got in from regional league and that being the way. He also did say moving struggling clubs to regional leagues. If you can read the article you can see at the bottom there is a "summit" that happened last week. On Thursday there was about an hour long forum with both Gallimore and Lavers, together.  it was called charting the course for girls. Some interesting comments were made.


----------



## Surf Zombie

“Lavers is laying it out:  Help us hamstring GA vie ECRL or be really strong and we will welcome you back.  We will also add pro/rel to deal with the teams we let in during DA.”

I thought it was interesting where he says 4 clubs came in via strong performances in ECNL-R, but then Energy & Royals are let in without going that route. I read it as dangling a carrot for more clubs to join ECNL-R. There is an Ohio club, Cleveland Force, that was in GDA, but skipped GAL and only put teams in ECNL- R. If that clubs gets in this year it will be telling.

As far as relegation goes, I think it will be a very rare circumstance, but we’ll see.


----------



## futboldad1

I am not trying to single clubs out....... but given the fact OC Surf/WCFC went directly from ECNL to DA......if their coaching staff is so good why do their teams struggle so badly....... sure it is not all about wins and losses but good players plus good coaches plus top recruitment platforms should not result in the below performances especially as for the older teams...... I can see why ECNL made their decision


GDA AND ECNL 2020 Standings Per Club by PPGGDA Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU14U15U16U17U18/U19San Diego Surf2.421441Legends417525LA Galaxy536178Real So Cal5.2482102Beach Futbol Club6.6132639SC Blues6.6649113Albion SC7.25510511LA Galaxy San Diego8.210133114Pateadores9.21212787SC del Sol9.211312614LA Surf SC9.49911126Utah Royals FC - Arizona9.814118133OC Surf Soccer10.671413910Albion SC Las Vegas11.6810141412ECNL Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU13U14U15U16U17U18U18 CompLAFC Slammers2.42111228So Cal Blues SC3.73684311Slammers FC4.663103163LA Breakers FC6.35868494Heat FC6.3144710117Strikers FC6.6117357310Arizona Arsenal SC7.1911126642Phoenix Rising FC7.379221212No teamRebels SC7.6821110589Eagles SC7.64105121156Arsenal FC8.9125999711DMCV Sharks9.010127118105


----------



## STX

Surf Zombie said:


> “If ECNL actually wanted to kill off GA, they would have invited the rest of the top clubs, like Top Hat.”
> 
> I can’t speak to ECNL’s motivations, but there Is another group of clubs that are going to be admitted for next year and from what I was told
> Top Hat is very much still in contention for one of those spots.


Tophat already isn't what it once was as they suffered a lot of defections of top players over the past summer. 

Still are a good club, but not at all one of the top 10 in the country like they have been in recent years. Arguably aren't even the best club in Atlanta anymore.


----------



## happy9

STX said:


> Tophat already isn't what it once was as they suffered a lot of defections of top players over the past summer.
> 
> Still are a good club, but not at all one of the top 10 in the country like they have been in recent years. Arguably aren't even the best club in Atlanta anymore.


Who is the best club in the Atlanta area?  And why the demise?


----------



## Surf Zombie

STX said:


> Tophat already isn't what it once was as they suffered a lot of defections of top players over the past summer.
> 
> Still are a good club, but not at all one of the top 10 in the country like they have been in recent years. Arguably aren't even the best club in Atlanta anymore.


i agree TH isn’t a top 10 club right now. They lost a ton of talent last year from what I have read. But they are still a big name program and I think they strengthen the league.


----------



## STX

Surf Zombie said:


> i agree TH isn’t a top 10 club right now. They lost a ton of talent last year from what I have read. But they are still a big name program and I think they strengthen the league.


No doubt Tophat would still strengthen ECNL.  They just aren't quite the powerhouse they have been over the past decade anymore.  They lost a lot of good players to ECNL clubs (and in some cases pretty much entire teams) when Tophat was denied entry into ECNL. 

It's a shame, and I hope Tophat and TSJ Virginia get into ECNL next year.  Now that Beach and Legends are in, those two are probably the only elite clubs in the country still on the outside looking in (fwiw, I loosely define elite as having a Champions League level team in most every age group).


----------



## GT45

LASTMAN14 said:


> Relax. Why. Easy one. WC relations with ECNL was far more positive than clubs that left and were admitted. Or those that snubbed  them in DA.


They are a below average club. It is not a snub. It is just reality. They would water down ECNL.


----------



## Surf Zombie

STX said:


> No doubt Tophat would still strengthen ECNL.  They just aren't quite the powerhouse they have been over the past decade anymore.  They lost a lot of good players to ECNL clubs (and in some cases pretty much entire teams) when Tophat was denied entry into ECNL.
> 
> It's a shame, and I hope Tophat and TSJ Virginia get into ECNL next year.  Now that Beach and Legends are in, those two are probably the only elite clubs in the country still on the outside looking in (fwiw, I loosely define elite as having a Champions League level team in most every age group).


I agree 100%. I'd like to see those two admitted. After that add a few more clubs in the Midwest/Ohio Valley to make the travel a bit more palatable and call it a day. Reevaluate next year when/if things are back to "normal."  

I won't be surprised if there is a bit of conference realignment and the number of regions goes from 9  up to 10 or even 11.  If that happens and the regions are smaller i'd love to see some cross over games once or twice a year.  I think that could help the league add a few games for each club where they are playing clubs of equal strength.  Plus, always fun to play unfamiliar opponents.


----------



## girlsrule7

Surf Zombie said:


> I agree 100%. I'd like to see those two admitted. After that add a few more clubs in the Midwest/Ohio Valley to make the travel a bit more palatable and call it a day. Reevaluate next year when/if things are back to "normal."
> 
> I won't be surprised if there is a bit of conference realignment and the number of regions goes from 9  up to 10 or even 11.  If that happens and the regions are smaller i'd love to see some cross over games once or twice a year.  I think that could help the league add a few games for each club where they are playing clubs of equal strength.  Plus, always fun to play unfamiliar opponents.


On the east coast, so don't usually contribute here but find a lot of interesting information, so thanks.  TopHat lost several girls to Concorde Fire, UFA.  I would say Concorde Fire Platinum is a top Atlanta club now.  TopHat U17 team just lost both of their GA showcase games, which is not usually how that club rolls.  On the other hand, FC Virginia hasn't lost players to surrounding ECNL clubs (yet).  A couple The Mid Atlantic ECNL clubs are not very strong but there are just too many of them and would be surprised to see more added even though GA arguably has better teams at some age groups.


----------



## MMMM

girlsrule7 said:


> On the east coast, so don't usually contribute here but find a lot of interesting information, so thanks.  TopHat lost several girls to Concorde Fire, UFA.  I would say Concorde Fire Platinum is a top Atlanta club now.  TopHat U17 team just lost both of their GA showcase games, which is not usually how that club rolls.  On the other hand, FC Virginia hasn't lost players to surrounding ECNL clubs (yet).  A couple The Mid Atlantic ECNL clubs are not very strong but there are just too many of them and would be surprised to see more added even though GA arguably has better teams at some age groups.


Another east coaster.  I agree. Virginia is particularly crowded probably because ECNL is headquartered in Richmond and the $$$ in the DC metro area.  There are better teams in the GA in the Midatlantic in Virginia but it would be hard for ECNL to let those clubs in withost dropping some of the underperforming ECNL clubs that they brought in to counter the DA. It will be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## Surf Zombie

MMMM said:


> Another east coaster.  I agree. Virginia is particularly crowded probably because ECNL is headquartered in Richmond and the $$$ in the DC metro area.  There are better teams in the GA in the Midatlantic in Virginia but it would be hard for ECNL to let those clubs in withost dropping some of the underperforming ECNL clubs that they brought in to counter the DA. It will be interesting to see what happens.


It sounds like Top Hat and the ECNL have had a pretty rocky dating relationship.  I'm not sure of the history of ECNL & FC Virginia.

Agreed that Atlanta & DC areas are pretty saturated, but so was Dallas and they let FC Dallas in despite that, so who knows.

Makes me wonder about conference realignment. VA & NC could go together. GA/AL & SC as another region and FL as its own region, depending upon what the expansion plans are. Essentially taking two existing regions and making it three.


----------



## girlsrule7

Surf Zombie said:


> It sounds like Top Hat and the ECNL have had a pretty rocky dating relationship.  I'm not sure of the history of ECNL & FC Virginia.
> 
> Agreed that Atlanta & DC areas are pretty saturated, but so was Dallas and they let FC Dallas in despite that, so who knows.
> 
> Makes me wonder about conference realignment. V& NC could go together. GA/AL & SC as another and FL as its own region, depending upon what the expansion plans are.


From what I remember, the FC Dallas relationship was as contentious as could be, but FC Dallas had the carrot of a great field complex for use so that tipped the scales to get back into ECNL.  If I had to guess, there would be no further ECNL expansion in the Mid Atlantic, they are just hoping to bleed off players from the GA to the underperforming ECNL clubs. So far it hasn't happened but imagine it will with younger age groups. FC Virginia was a founding member of ECNL, but when they moved to DA they pissed off the other local teams as players went to FCV.  Have heard the VA ECNL clubs including Richmond were very against FCV getting back in.


----------



## Surf Zombie

girlsrule7 said:


> From what I remember, the FC Dallas relationship was as contentious as could be, but FC Dallas had the carrot of a great field complex for use so that tipped the scales to get back into ECNL.  If I had to guess, there would be no further ECNL expansion in the Mid Atlantic, they are just hoping to bleed off players from the GA to the underperforming ECNL clubs. So far it hasn't happened but imagine it will with younger age groups. FC Virginia was a founding member of ECNL, but when they moved to DA they pissed off the other local teams as players went to FCV.  Have heard the VA ECNL clubs including Richmond were very against FCV getting back in.


Ahh. That’s really interesting. So many politics between all these clubs, but that’s the nature of it. It’s strange that Top Hat lost so many kids but sounds like FCV didn’t. I wonder if that’s based upon different expectations of the parents of those clubs if they eventually get admitted, or just different GA situations with travel & strength of competition in the SE versus the mid Atlantic? 

FWIW I’ve also heard no further expansion in the New England conference.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

This is an interesting article on youth sports participation.  Core soccer participation is down 3% over the past 5 years.  After this pandemic, this will drop significantly.   I just don’t see so many ECNL clubs surviving.


----------



## Giesbock

Surf Zombie said:


> I agree 100%. I'd like to see those two admitted. After that add a few more clubs in the Midwest/Ohio Valley to make the travel a bit more palatable and call it a day. Reevaluate next year when/if things are back to "normal."
> 
> I won't be surprised if there is a bit of conference realignment and the number of regions goes from 9  up to 10 or even 11.  If that happens and the regions are smaller i'd love to see some cross over games once or twice a year.  I think that could help the league add a few games for each club where they are playing clubs of equal strength.  Plus, always fun to play unfamiliar opponents.
> 
> since Tophat and WCFC have been mentioned up thread related to ECNL entry, I’d note that WCFC u17 and u19 teams beat Tophat 5-1 in both games. I did hear someone say that it wasn’t Tophats top team playing the u17 game...


----------



## girlsrule7

WCFC U17 beat Top Hat Navy, which is their second team.  TH Gold is top team.  Top hat 19s aren't on the schedule so I don't think they are at the event


----------



## supercell

FCV in particular is literally across the street from Loudoun, who got in when FCV left for DA. This will be a test of ECNL's resolve to protect the current members from too much dilution.  There are some other GA clubs in Northern Virginia in a similar boat, wanting in, but very close to existing clubs. Metro United, and Arlington are literally next door to McLean.


----------



## crush

girlsrule7 said:


> WCFC U17 beat Top Hat Navy, which is their second team.  TH Gold is top team.  Top hat 19s aren't on the schedule so I don't think they are at the event


I remember my dd varsity team playing Los Al.  We scored first and I thought we could beat goliath.  I even texted my friend were up on #1 Los Al.  Well, I soon found it we were playing their JV team because their varsity team had more important opponent to beat.  So we beat Los Al but I kept it to myself.


----------



## MacDre

girlsrule7 said:


> From what I remember, the FC Dallas relationship was as contentious as could be, but FC Dallas had the carrot of a great field complex for use so that tipped the scales to get back into ECNL.  If I had to guess, there would be no further ECNL expansion in the Mid Atlantic, they are just hoping to bleed off players from the GA to the underperforming ECNL clubs. So far it hasn't happened but imagine it will with younger age groups. FC Virginia was a founding member of ECNL, but when they moved to DA they pissed off the other local teams as players went to FCV.  Have heard the VA ECNL clubs including Richmond were very against FCV getting back in.


Interesting comment.  When GDA started my kid was about 10 y/o.  I didn’t understand the letter leagues and I was looking for information.  I was in the San Diego Airport waiting for a flight to Oakland and I saw this dude in a track suit that looked like a walking GDA billboard.  He was the DOC from FCV.  I can’t remember his name but he coached Rose Lavelle in Cincinnati and is from the SF Bay Area originally.

I think he was one of the main guys promoting the GDA.  When I asked him about problems that I had heard about regarding the GDA, he started talking cash shit to me.  If my daughter wasn’t with me, either he or I would have gotten a good old fashioned ass whipping.  I am saying all this to say that the DOC at FCV is dumb, immature and doesn’t politic well.  I actually dream of bumping into this guy in a bar or dark alley so we can settle the score.  If I feel this way about dude after a brief 5 minute interaction, I can only imagine how other DOC’s feel about working with him.


----------



## supercell

MacDre said:


> Interesting comment.  When GDA started my kid was about 10 y/o.  I didn’t understand the letter leagues and I was looking for information.  I was in the San Diego Airport waiting for a flight to Oakland and I saw this dude in a track suit that looked like a walking GDA billboard.  He was the DOC from FCV.  I can’t remember his name but he coached Rose Lavelle in Cincinnati and is from the SF Bay Area originally.
> 
> I think he was one of the main guys promoting the GDA.  When I asked him about problems that I had heard about regarding the GDA, he started talking cash shit to me.  If my daughter wasn’t with me, either he or I would have gotten a good old fashioned ass whipping.  I am saying all this to say that the DOC at FCV is dumb, immature and doesn’t politic well.  I actually dream of bumping into this guy in a bar or dark alley so we can settle the score.  If I feel this way about dude after a brief 5 minute interaction, I can only imagine how other DOC’s feel about working with him.


Ah yes, you're talking about the illustrious Bobby Puppione, or Pupperoni as the girls call him. Just one of the reasons the club is reviled in the NoVA area.


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> Interesting comment.  When GDA started my kid was about 10 y/o.  I didn’t understand the letter leagues and I was looking for information.  I was in the San Diego Airport waiting for a flight to Oakland and I saw this dude in a track suit that looked like a walking GDA billboard.  He was the DOC from FCV.  I can’t remember his name but he coached Rose Lavelle in Cincinnati and is from the SF Bay Area originally.
> 
> I think he was one of the main guys promoting the GDA.  When I asked him about problems that I had heard about regarding the GDA, *he started talking cash shit to me.*  If my daughter wasn’t with me, either he or I would have gotten a good old fashioned ass whipping.  I am saying all this to say that the DOC at FCV is dumb, immature and doesn’t politic well.  I actually dream of bumping into this guy in a bar or dark alley so we can settle the score.  If I feel this way about dude after a brief 5 minute interaction, I can only imagine how other DOC’s feel about working with him.


Can you share more about this?  Lot's of cash deals going on back in the day all over the place.  Bags of cash....lol!!!!


----------



## MacDre

supercell said:


> Ah yes, you're talking about the illustrious Bobby Puppione, or Pupperoni as the girls call him. Just one of the reasons the club is reviled in the NoVA area.


Bingo.  That guy pissed me off to the highest pisstivity!!!


----------



## GeekKid

Surf Zombie said:


> It sounds like Top Hat and the ECNL have had a pretty rocky dating relationship.  I'm not sure of the history of ECNL & FC Virginia.
> 
> Agreed that Atlanta & DC areas are pretty saturated, *but so was Dallas and they let FC Dallas in despite that*, so who knows.
> 
> Makes me wonder about conference realignment. VA & NC could go together. GA/AL & SC as another region and FL as its own region, depending upon what the expansion plans are. Essentially taking two existing regions and making it three.


Not only was FC Dallas allowed in but they also handed Sting Dallas a second team.  Now that's saturation.


----------



## dad4

For the advocates of a small ECNL with less dilution, what is the right size?

I prefer a large league with around 10 NorCal and 20 socal teams.  Probably means 150 or so nationally, but minimal travel for league games.


----------



## Surf Zombie

GeekKid said:


> Not only was FC Dallas allowed in but they also handed Sting Dallas a second team.  Now that's saturation.


Yeah it’s crazy. Up here FC Stars has two teams and PDA has 3. Although the third team is a couple hours away. But still.


----------



## GT45

dad4 said:


> For the advocates of a small ECNL with less dilution, what is the right size?
> 
> I prefer a large league with around 10 NorCal and 20 socal teams.  Probably means 150 or so nationally, but minimal travel for league games.


20 So Cal teams is the equivalent of playing SCDSL. ECNL is an elite league for elite clubs. Not everyone is good enough to participate. There are already too many So Cal clubs in it. 8-10 should be the max.


----------



## dad4

GT45 said:


> 20 So Cal teams is the equivalent of playing SCDSL. ECNL is an elite league for elite clubs. Not everyone is good enough to participate. There are already too many So Cal clubs in it. 8-10 should be the max.


So 8-10 SoCal, 4-5 NorCal, and maybe 60-70 total?

Certainly more elite.  You'd get higher level games.

You'd also get longer travel, both for practice and games.  You'll lose some families just because of the time spent in transit.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

dad4 said:


> For the advocates of a small ECNL with less dilution, what is the right size?
> 
> I prefer a large league with around 10 NorCal and 20 socal teams.  Probably means 150 or so nationally, but minimal travel for league games.


I think 8 is good for NorCal - I'd drop it to 7 and add a team in Fresno. That alone is good for 14 "local" (don't need to fly) games. Typically these teams also play in NPL for extra games.


----------



## Swoosh

The old CSL Premier League was most competitive at 8 teams.  The most teams I remember seeing was 10.  That was the last time the best players were all in the best league in Southern California.


----------



## crush

The days of having only the top players playing against the other top players are long gone and never coming back.  No way.  The good news is so many girls want to play soccer.  The bad news is so many are told if they do speed training they will get fast.  Or if they train four days a week 10 months out of the year they will be developed into a world class player, taught by world class coaches.  When you lie all day, you get what you lie about.  This will take years to sort out in socal.  I would just go with more teams so all the parents who feel their goat is elite, can get a chance to showcase.  The girls get to play and that's 100% the most important.  Some coaches tell you want you want to hear and very very few tell you what you need to hear, like the truth.  I do joke around sometimes but I can say many teens are having a hard time right now.  My advice to all the adults, get your sh*t together.  Seriously, this is a complete joke.  A bunch of rich parents and their lame coaches just want what they have always wanted, control and access.  Stop it!!!


----------



## GT45

crush said:


> The days of having only the top players playing against the other top players are long gone and never coming back.  No way.  The good news is so many girls want to play soccer.  The bad news is so many are told if they do speed training they will get fast.  Or if they train four days a week 10 months out of the year they will be developed into a world class player, taught by world class coaches.  When you lie all day, you get what you lie about.  This will take years to sort out in socal.  I would just go with more teams so all the parents who feel their goat is elite, can get a chance to showcase.  The girls get to play and that's 100% the most important.  Some coaches tell you want you want to hear and very very few tell you what you need to hear, like the truth.  I do joke around sometimes but I can say many teens are having a hard time right now.  My advice to all the adults, get your sh*t together.  Seriously, this is a complete joke.  A bunch of rich parents and their lame coaches just want what they have always wanted, control and access.  Stop it!!!


Sounds like you have been in a sour situation. There are some great club coaches and great clubs out there. Not sure where you are getting the idea that top players playing against each other are long gone. With DA folding and the ECNL gaining their top clubs, it is only going to get better, not worse, for top players. DA and ECNL competing watered both leagues down. Now ECNL gets all of the top teams.

By the way, speed training can improve speed. It cannot make a slow player uber fast, but it can improve one's speed.


----------



## crush

GT45 said:


> Sounds like you have been in a sour situation. There are some great club coaches and great clubs out there. Not sure where you are getting the idea that top players playing against each other are long gone. With DA folding and the ECNL gaining their top clubs, it is only going to get better, not worse, for top players. DA and ECNL competing watered both leagues down. Now ECNL gets all of the top teams.
> 
> By the way, speed training can improve speed. It cannot make a slow player uber fast, but it can improve one's speed.


45, come on man.  My situation is all roses brah.  The last three years has been marvelous and so fun watching all the greats battle it out on da pitch as my dd was banned from playing with all the socal greats because she attended public school and did not get a special waiver like some players got.  If you want top top, listen to the great Maps.  He said only 20-40 top top in each county.  So take the top top from OC and have one team of 20, IE 20, LA 20 and so on.  Then have a socal league with each county sending their best.  The rest of us can be in the other leagues and go play high school.  If you dont do that, you will have a 20 team socal league in two years.


----------



## Flick

Kicker4Life said:


> When Eagles play surf that’s a 3 to 4 Hour commute as well Depending on the time of day.


Speaking from experience, I’ll take a slow traffic jammed drive down the coast for 2-4 hours with a stop at Pizza Port in Solana Beach on the return trip over a monotonous 4-5 hour trip between Houston and Dallas on I-45 or 7 hour trip to OKC from Houston with only Buckees to stop and get some jerky.


----------



## 46n2

GT45 said:


> Sounds like you have been in a sour situation. There are some great club coaches and great clubs out there. Not sure where you are getting the idea that top players playing against each other are long gone. With DA folding and the ECNL gaining their top clubs, it is only going to get better, not worse, for top players. DA and ECNL competing watered both leagues down. Now ECNL gets all of the top teams.
> 
> By the way, speed training can improve speed. It cannot make a slow player uber fast, but it can improve one's speed.


exactly 
crush made some poor decision and got dealt a shitty hand, over and over again we hear it.  alot of parents have great players and they make rash decisions thinking the grass is greener and wha la.....guess what you just ruined it for your kid because of YOUR ego as a ulttile parent.
Blah Blah Blah....GT45 you are spot on with this


----------



## crush

46n2 said:


> exactly
> crush made some poor decision and got dealt a shitty hand, over and over again we hear it.  alot of parents have great players and they make rash decisions thinking the grass is greener and wha la.....guess what you just ruined it for your kid because of YOUR ego as a ulttile parent.
> Blah Blah Blah....GT45 you are spot on with this


Exactly
Crush's DD made great decisions, not poor one.  We were actually talking about all this on the way home from USL and how hard it was to make THE DECISION to play high school soccer instead of biggest scam league ever called the Girls Development Academy.  This is where they were making all the World Class Players.  The clubs that ran for GDA are the one's who made a rash decision and now have to eat crow, just like you.  Follow the story 46.  My dd made her decision.  I'm hear to point why she made the decision to run away from a Doc who was gnarly.  PM me and I'll give you the dirty details asshole   Then, you can PM my DD and ask her how she feels about her "rash" decision.  Blah blah blah.  People like you and a few I wont name today single handedly ruined soccer in socal.  Have a nice day Team Manager.


----------



## MacDre

GT45 said:


> DA and ECNL competing watered both leagues down. Now ECNL gets all of the top teams.


For the sake of this hypothetical, if we can assume that the average ulittle soccer parent is as game goofy and ignorant regarding soccer development and letter leagues as I was, what makes you think ECNL has elite soccer on lock?

It seems to me that if the GA puts substantial resources into marketing to game goofy ulittle parents that they could potentially compete and be an equivalent alternative or maybe better.  The homie @sdb recently put me up on Ankersen.  During Ankersen’s presentation he talks about how the folks at Nokia got all comfortable being industry leaders and thought the IPhone was a niche product and they didn’t have anything to worry about...well we all know how this story ends.  So how do you know that ECNL is not being overconfident and underestimating GA the same way Nokia underestimated IPhone?


----------



## 46n2

crush said:


> Exactly
> Crush's DD made great decisions, not poor one.  We were actually talking about all this on the way home from USL and how hard it was to make THE DECISION to play high school soccer instead of biggest scam league ever called the Girls Development Academy.  This is where they were making all the World Class Players.  The clubs that ran for GDA are the one's who made a rash decision and now have to eat crow, just like you.  Follow the story 46.  My dd made her decision.  I'm hear to point why she made the decision to run away from a Doc who was gnarly.  PM me and I'll give you the dirty details asshole   Then, you can PM my DD and ask her how she feels about her "rash" decision.  Blah blah blah.  People like you and a few I wont name today single handedly ruined soccer in socal.  Have a nice day Team Manager.


my comments are directed at you not your child you fucking moron, dont get it twisted barney.


----------



## crush

46n2 said:


> my comments are directed at you not your child you fucking moron, dont get it twisted barney.


Oh really???  Name calling me so early TM?  Wow, folks, this right here is how "some" TMs actually are.  They run teams like this and with their Doc ruin sports. Total losers!!!


----------



## crush

46n2 said:


> my comments are directed at you not your child you fucking moron, dont get it twisted barney.


and of course Kicker agrees with you.  Kicker got all he wanted and sum.  Listen, we all know what happen.  You guys are a joke.  All of you "pay to play" so I can get what I want for my dd.  Total losers!!!  I'm almost out of here guys, so I will be leaving soon.  I just have to get in a few last punches in before I leave.  Total losers.  Pay $$$$ so my dd can get in the front of the line.  Losers!!!!


----------



## crush

GDA vs ECNL Toxic War.  What happen to the war fools?


----------



## crush

46n2 said:


> *your child you fucking moron, dont get it twisted barney.*


You, "Team Manager" are the biggest loser on this board.


----------



## Anon9

Do my Wow emojis even mean anything anymore?


----------



## RJonesUSC

Are we witnessing the re-emergence of EJ right before our very eyes?


----------



## crush

Anon9 said:


> Do my Wow emojis even mean anything anymore?


Wow is cool with me.  I dont read into them at all bro.  Round and around we go on the socal forum.  Spin the wheel today and see where it lands.  Today we see that Crush made all the poor decisions for his goat.  Because crush was rash, his dd lost her chance to make The List and instead saw green pasture.  Mr Crush made poor decisions for his dear daughter that he loves so much and ruined any chance she had to play pro.  The haves and the have nuts is out in full force today.  Let's play ball.  What a heist these assholes pulled on the parents and most of the girls in socal.  Karma Karma Karma be coming.


----------



## dad4

MacDre said:


> For the sake of this hypothetical, if we can assume that the average ulittle soccer parent is as game goofy and ignorant regarding soccer development and letter leagues as I was, what makes you think ECNL has elite soccer on lock?
> 
> It seems to me that if the GA puts substantial resources into marketing to game goofy ulittle parents that they could potentially compete and be an equivalent alternative or maybe better.  The homie @sdb recently put me up on Ankersen.  During Ankersen’s presentation he talks about how the folks at Nokia got all comfortable being industry leaders and thought the IPhone was a niche product and they didn’t have anything to worry about...well we all know how this story ends.  So how do you know that ECNL is not being overconfident and underestimating GA the same way Nokia underestimated IPhone?


The network effect is stronger in soccer.

iPhone users and Nokia users can still make phone calls to each other whenever they want.

The same is not quite true of GA and ECNL.

I still think GA is viable and that ECNL underestimated the threat.  But GA will need to work.


----------



## crush

RJonesUSC said:


> Are we witnessing the re-emergence of EJ right before our very eyes?


Mr Jones, I know you have been paying to play and i respect that.  It pays to lurk as well.  Say what you want and attack me, the father.  Did you personally know the Doc my dd had to deal with for two years?


----------



## crush

It's amazing to wake up to "46 The team Manager" making light and fun of my DD decisions in youth soccer.  This just came out of no where for me.  Yes, she triggered me but all TMs do.  Another loser making fun of 13 and 14 years old dreams and decisions.  Plus, my dd was not treated professionally, respectfully and with dignity.  These men are assholes!!!!  I must have hit his or her cord.  It actually called me a moron.  The last man to call me that was having a mental break down.  I know were all losing are rights and so much more, but dam, I did not expect 46 to back up 45.  They have Mr Jones jump in as well.  Gee, i wonder what club are you guys are all with?  I think I already know.


----------



## Kicker4Life

crush said:


> GDA vs ECNL Toxic War.  What happen to the war fools?


That argument only makes sense if you jumped clubs to chase one or the other leagues.  You hated the GDA so much yet you went back for a second bite of the Apple.


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> That argument only makes sense if you jumped clubs to chase one or the other leagues.  You hated the GDA so much yet you went back for a second bite of the Apple.


Kicker, I would just be quite today.  Where is the GDA?  Now, let's focus on my dd and not me.  So your saying my daughter jumped clubs to chase one or the other league?  She hated GDA so much, yet went back for second bite of that stupid Apple story you keep using as a stupid example?  Are you serious Kicker?  What is wrong with you?  For those keeping score, let me explain again what happen to my dd so it doesnt happen to your dd.
My dd was told by a liar who happen to be another Doc.  He said GDA was finally going to allow High School soccer for kids in public school.  This was 2018-2019 GDA.  I know it's hard to believe but she went back because the other Doc, ya the one in the track suit also lied about the GDA.  So she went back to bite the evil apple with worm because the nice old man doc said he was told HS Soccer will be allowed for public school kids.  Guess what?  They lied again so here we are today.  The moral of the story is if lie enough, your business will fail.  Where or where is the GDA today?  Making fun of a little girl revels all of you.  Why pick on someone your own size losers!!!


----------



## MacDre

crush said:


> Mr Jones, I know you have been paying to play and i respect that.  It pays to lurk as well.  Say what you want and attack me, the father.  Did you personally know the Doc my dd had to deal with for two years?


I just saw this article recently.  Maybe not making the list is a blessing in disguise.  Everything that glitters is not gold.




__





						Redirect Notice
					





					www.google.com


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> I just saw this article recently.  Maybe not making the list is a blessing in disguise.  Everything that glitters is not gold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


The List was a joke in 2017 and anyone who is following knows that The List was put in the wrong hands because in the hands of a monster, it can go very bad for kids.  That's a fact Jack.  The type of men you ran into at the airport is why I'm here Dre.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Anon9 said:


> Do my Wow emojis even mean anything anymore?


Of the six available emoji's none is more ambiguous than the "Wow".
- "Wow, that's crazy!"
- "Wow, you actually wrote that!"
- "Wow, you are an idiot!"


----------



## crush

kickingandscreaming said:


> Of the six available emoji's none is more ambiguous than the "Wow".
> - "Wow, that's crazy!"
> - "Wow, you actually wrote that!"
> - "Wow, you are an idiot!"


So true bro.  How about "Sad"
-"Sad POS"
-"Sad, you need help"
-"Sad that adults ruined sports for kids."


----------



## crush

Today is a great day to let it all out.  I'm serious.  Dont hold back today.  I already got 5 Pms telling me to ignore the fools and not let them trigger me.....lol!!!  If I were to die for speaking up, so be it.  I know the Bear does not like being poked by me, the moron and stupid father chasing leagues and free stuff from the #1 club in the country.  However, I'm on 9 lives already and i dont live in fear and worry about those who blackmail folks or try and black list them to shut them up.  You can all see clearly that when one attacks the messenger they already lost.


----------



## happy9

MacDre said:


> For the sake of this hypothetical, if we can assume that the average ulittle soccer parent is as game goofy and ignorant regarding soccer development and letter leagues as I was, what makes you think ECNL has elite soccer on lock?
> 
> It seems to me that if the GA puts substantial resources into marketing to game goofy ulittle parents that they could potentially compete and be an equivalent alternative or maybe better.  The homie @sdb recently put me up on Ankersen.  During Ankersen’s presentation he talks about how the folks at Nokia got all comfortable being industry leaders and thought the IPhone was a niche product and they didn’t have anything to worry about...well we all know how this story ends.  So how do you know that ECNL is not being overconfident and underestimating GA the same way Nokia underestimated IPhone?


Why does CA even bother with a letter league that spans across the country?  Your teams do not have to travel.  Minus the few blips on the radar, CA is the epicenter of girl/women's soccer.  Why not stay home, enjoy the short commute (for the most part), and play quality games every weekend.

Those of us in places like Vegas and Phoenix will gladly travel once a month or every other month to play against CA teams.  

With that said, I think there are common sense ideas and some collaboration to come between the GA and ECNL:

1.  Low performing ECNL clubs  will be relegated to Regional League.
2.  Cross competition between GA and ECNL, likely between top performing clubs (wouldn't that be nice).  Maybe at places like Surf Cup, PDT, etc.





__





						ECNL and Girls Academy announce new members - Back of THE NET Soccer Message Boards
					






					www.backofthenet.com


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> Why does CA even bother with a letter league that spans across the country?  Your teams do not have to travel.  Minus the few blips on the radar, CA is the epicenter of girl/women's soccer.  Why not stay home, enjoy the short commute (for the most part), and play quality games every weekend.
> 
> Those of us in places like Vegas and Phoenix will gladly travel once a month or every other month to play against CA teams.
> 
> With that said, I think there are common sense ideas and some collaboration to come between the GA and ECNL:
> 
> 1.  Low performing ECNL clubs  will be relegated to Regional League.
> 2.  Cross competition between GA and ECNL, likely between top performing clubs (wouldn't that be nice).  Maybe at places like Surf Cup, PDT, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ECNL and Girls Academy announce new members - Back of THE NET Soccer Message Boards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.backofthenet.com


I said that a long time ago, ask footy if you dont believe me, that the GDA travel league was for the rich and only the rich.  We now know their was never any intention from the clubs to go fully funded.  It was always to take the funds from the rich parents so their kids can play with the Elite goats. I was called all sorts of names because all these fools wanted to travel all over the country beating up on teams from Vermont and Maine and spend over $15,000 a year traveling, golfing and eating out.  Some even flew first class and some have their own private airplanes to go on road games.  It had to stop and boy did it.  This had to get fixed.  Happy, no reason any of us from socal should be told you cant participant because your dd goes to public or it;s just to dam expensive to travel to CO, NC and Florida all in one year and skip school and then more travel.  Scores like 9-1 is not competitive.  Scoring 4 goals in a game is not reality in the real world.


----------



## Luis Andres

Hey Mr @crush now that ecnl is right around the corner for my baby goat, I’m doing my research on it. Looks to me like it’s another organization just made for the elite clubs. Gotta be with the in crowd to get in this one. No baby clubs here. Hopefully it’s not all about who has money and can pay their way through it. But I’m excited for this new chapter. New coach for us as well. Looks like fun


----------



## Kicker4Life

crush said:


> Kicker, I would just be quite today.  Where is the GDA?  Now, let's focus on my dd and not me.  So your saying my daughter jumped clubs to chase one or the other league?  She hated GDA so much, yet went back for second bite of that stupid Apple story you keep using as a stupid example?  Are you serious Kicker?  What is wrong with you?  For those keeping score, let me explain again what happen to my dd so it doesnt happen to your dd.
> My dd was told by a liar who happen to be another Doc.  He said GDA was finally going to allow High School soccer for kids in public school.  This was 2018-2019 GDA.  I know it's hard to believe but she went back because the other Doc, ya the one in the track suit also lied about the GDA.  So she went back to bite the evil apple with worm because the nice old man doc said he was told HS Soccer will be allowed for public school kids.  Guess what?  They lied again so here we are today.  The moral of the story is if lie enough, your business will fail.  Where or where is the GDA today?  Making fun of a little girl revels all of you.  Why pick on someone your own size losers!!!


No one is making fun of your DD.  Simply pointing out that you made decisions (like keeping her in that “toxic” DOC environment for 2 years) so she could win a Natty and then playing the victim.

Keep trying to twist the narrative. You are the only one dragging your DD into this by constantly trying to sell us on her mistreatment, posting pictures onto this forum of her at various ages with trophies, etc.  

Peace out!


----------



## crush

Luis Andres said:


> Hey Mr @crush now that ecnl is right around the corner for my baby goat, I’m doing my research on it. Looks to me like it’s another organization just made for the elite clubs. Gotta be with the in crowd to get in this one. No baby clubs here. Hopefully it’s not all about who has money and can pay their way through it. But I’m excited for this new chapter. New coach for us as well. Looks like fun


Luis, I miss you.  I hope all is well.  Good luck on the next chapter with dd.  She is a talented player.


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> I said that a long time ago, ask footy if you dont believe me, that the GDA travel league was for the rich and only the rich.  We now know their was never any intention from the clubs to go fully funded.  It was always to take the funds from the rich parents so their kids can play with the Elite goats. I was called all sorts of names because all these fools wanted to travel all over the country beating up on teams from Vermont and Maine and spend over $15,000 a year traveling, golfing and eating out.  Some even flew first class and some have their own private airplanes to go on road games.  It had to stop and boy did it.  This had to get fixed.  Happy, no reason any of us from socal should be told you cant participant because your dd goes to public or it;s just to dam expensive to travel to CO, NC and Florida all in one year and skip school and then more travel.  Scores like 9-1 is not competitive.  Scoring 4 goals in a game is not reality in the real world.


I don't see any socio/economic differences between the GDA,GA, and ECNL.  It will still cost too much for many.

I think you need to get over the HS thing.  Before the GDA imploded, they were well on their way to allowing HS and rethinking showcases (frequency, location, etc).

Letter leagues are money making ventures.  Altruism is not something that high level club sports leagues practice.  Once you get over that fact, once you take any "development" pitch from a coach or a DOC with a grain of salt, the easier it is to make decisions for your DD.  Parent's are too easily convinced that their player is the "next" player.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Luis Andres said:


> Hopefully it’s not all about who has money and can pay their way through it.


No, it is not all about who can pay the most, but youth spots are a business and there are costs involved.


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> No one is making fun of your DD.  Simply pointing out that you made decisions (like keeping her in that “toxic” DOC environment for 2 years) so she could win a Natty and then playing the victim.
> 
> Keep trying to twist the narrative. You are the only one dragging your DD into this by constantly trying to sell us on her mistreatment, posting pictures onto this forum of her at various ages with trophies, etc.
> 
> Peace out!


Peace out?  Peace to you brother Kicker.  I dont need to sell anything.  You sir sold us why the GDA was so great for three sun years.  Lets share the facts Kicker.  My dd went to the club with the Doc who also happen to be the new Training Center Director in San Diego and was on staff with USSF.  It amazes me how much you know my dd story.  I can say 100% your full of shit and listening to your dear friends down south who are telling you half of the story.  I guess the world is watching and I should share the story again?  My PMs are lighting up.  I must be on target?  Incoming!!!!


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> I don't see any socio/economic differences between the GDA,GA, and ECNL.  It will still cost too much for many.
> 
> *I think you need to get over the HS thing*.  Before the GDA imploded, they were well on their way to allowing HS and rethinking showcases (frequency, location, etc).
> 
> Letter leagues are money making ventures.  Altruism is not something that high level club sports leagues practice.  Once you get over that fact, once you take any "development" pitch from a coach or a DOC with a grain of salt, the easier it is to make decisions for your DD.  Parent's are too easily convinced that their player is the "next" player.


I will never get over it until the assholes repent and say sorry.  Bro, you have no clue on what your talking about.  The GDA said every year they were going to allow HS Soccer.  The only High School soccer allowed was for the rich through the waiver thing.


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> *not all about who can pay the most*, *youth spots are a business* * costs involved.*


Oh really?  What league is it that your talking about that it's not about "how much one is willing to pay to get what they so desperately want and desire?"  Yes, youth sports was a business first but not anymore.  No business will survive lying to their customers, even if that customer is a moron and foolish and idiot.  It still does not give you the right to lie and misrepresent your product.


----------



## Desert Hound

happy9 said:


> Cross competition between GA and ECNL, likely between top performing clubs (wouldn't that be nice). Maybe at places like Surf Cup, PDT, etc.


MEH. 

ECNL has allowed cross competition in showcases. DA was the one not terribly interested (though occasionally you saw them play ECNL). So ECNL has allowed it, GA is saying yeah we are not going to live in a box and in showcases we will allow our clubs to play outside of GA. 

Doesn't really move the needle in any meaningful way. 

What would move the needle is if the ECNL national champs in each age group played the GA national champs in each age group for a combined national championship. 

Then you would see a lot of interest.


----------



## crush

Desert Hound said:


> MEH.
> 
> ECNL has allowed cross competition in showcases. DA was the one not terribly interested (though occasionally you saw them play ECNL). So ECNL has allowed it, GA is saying yeah we are not going to live in a box and in showcases we will allow our clubs to play outside of GA.
> 
> Doesn't really move the needle in any meaningful way.
> 
> What would move the needle is if the ECNL national champs in each age group played the GA national champs in each age group for a combined national championship.
> 
> Then you would see a lot of interest.


I said that a long time ago too, when the war of 2016 started.  AP vs UPI, remember that championship game back in the 70s in college football?


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> I will never get over it until the assholes repent and say sorry.  Bro, you have no clue on what your talking about.  The GDA said every year they were going to allow HS Soccer.  The only High School soccer allowed was for the rich and the waiver thing.


No doubt clubs played favorites when it came to HS.  I'm not here to defend the GDA.  I liked the idea of the GDA but it was poorly executed and it cost them.  Too many desk jockeys involved.

And this may be an unpopular statement, but HS soccer is poorly played.  I know why the players love it, I don't blame them.  My oldest has done it every year.  2 of the 4 years he sat out half the season due to injury.  And yes I know that injuries occur in club.  

My DD will make up her own mind, but I prefer she not play.  I will go watch if she decides to play.  This year was a wash due to Covid and the late start to the HS season.  She chose club.  We will see what happens next year.  2 players on her team chose HS and both are out with injuries.  Coincidence, maybe.  There are injured players on the club team as well.


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> MEH.
> 
> ECNL has allowed cross competition in showcases. DA was the one not terribly interested (though occasionally you saw them play ECNL). So ECNL has allowed it, GA is saying yeah we are not going to live in a box and in showcases we will allow our clubs to play outside of GA.
> 
> Doesn't really move the needle in any meaningful way.
> 
> *What would move the needle is if the ECNL national champs in each age group played the GA national champs in each age group for a combined national championship.
> 
> Then you would see a lot of interest.
> *




That would indeed be meaningful.  I think the point I'm trying to make is that there appears to be less animosity between the leadership of the two organizations, for now.  Also appears to me that ECNL is self aware enough to know that rapid expansion and bloated conferences will lead to dilution.  Lavers is setting the stage for the culling of low performing teams.  Which is not a bad thing.

The GDA would only play ECNL teams when it was in their favor and could be leveraged as a recruiting tool. Silly if you ask me and added to the animosity. 

The parent community and these types forums will always pitch one league against another, it's to be expected.  The GA is young and has plenty to prove - they know this.  As long as both platforms place players into collegiate programs, there is room for both, and room to brag who is better.  Competition is good.


----------



## Desert Hound

happy9 said:


> but HS soccer is poorly played


Yep. It is bad soccer. Painful to watch.


----------



## Desert Hound

happy9 said:


> Lavers is setting the stage for the culling of low performing teams. Which is not a bad thing.


Not a bad thing.

I would prefer to see it done age specific vs club.

If you have a good U16 team, they stay ECNL. If the u17 underperforms they drop. And if they U14s kicked ass, they move up and take spot in ECNL from the team relegated to ECRL.


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> *And this may be an unpopular statement, but HS soccer is poorly played*.
> 
> *My DD will make up her own mind, but I prefer she not play*.


This might be an unpopular statement, but have you seen the quality of club the last few years?  Talk about poor play.  Yukie!!!  After what I saw with the first year of that failed league, I told my dd to do what her little heart desired.  They play because they want to have fun.  Club has not been fun for most, only for the few.  Trust me Happy, i talk to people and they share their true feelings to me.  The one's that say everything is just find and dandy got what they paid for, trust me Happy.  I know what the hell I'm talking about.  Yes Happy, it's all my faught for being such a bad father for talking her back to the so called abuse from the Doc.  Yes sir, blame it on the rain and the stupid father.


----------



## crush

Alrighty then, looks like 46 took the first shot this morning and his or her reinforcements are ready to attack me again.   It thrills me to see how many PMs hate me and like me.  50/50 right baout now.  I will never win over those who got what they paid for.  Their bought and have to come on here an attack my dd for her decisions as a little girl.  Same fools wanted her to make adult decision in 7th grade. This has been going on now for almost three years.  Same fellas...lol!!  They just can;t get enough me.  Listen losers, I will let you have the forum to make fun of my dd dear decisions back when she was 13 and 14.  "The Men Who Ruined Socal Soccer" is the title of new documentary.


----------



## crush

Chapter 1, scene 1.  Date:  Sometime in 2010.  My goat was playing rec ball and their must have been 10 scouts from all the local Temecula Youth clubs.  They came to watch her and many others I might add.  She was only 6.  We got three business cards that day from two different girl coaches and then one dude in a track suit said he was the guru of the game and the town and he would make my dd the next Mia.  I told him to buzz off because he looked odd and sounded like a weirdo.  So we went with one of the girl coaches because she was nice and said the girls have bday parties, scavenger hunts, sleep overs and bake cakes, not all about soccer at this place.  My dd made new friends and they had so much fun.  We didnt win it all that year but my dd was on fire.  How you might ask?  You will just have to wait until Chapter 2 is written.  I will say like 11 docs, scouts and coaches all flocked to the one of the biggest rivalry games ever played in Temecula, over at Birdsall, not Galloway Downs and those fields where gun guy became famous.  The big clubs from as far as LA would send their coaches to look for the best in Temecula.  The State Cup was where all this took place.  It would not be uncommon to get chased down in the parking lot to talk it up about how great my dd was.  My gosh, as i look back I should have seen what was coming and now I do   I might change my avatar again and then vow to never post on here, like ever you guys.  Now how does that sound fellas?  No more Crush to make fun of.  Be careful what you ask for is all I can say.


----------



## GT45

MacDre said:


> For the sake of this hypothetical, if we can assume that the average ulittle soccer parent is as game goofy and ignorant regarding soccer development and letter leagues as I was, what makes you think ECNL has elite soccer on lock?
> 
> It seems to me that if the GA puts substantial resources into marketing to game goofy ulittle parents that they could potentially compete and be an equivalent alternative or maybe better.  The homie @sdb recently put me up on Ankersen.  During Ankersen’s presentation he talks about how the folks at Nokia got all comfortable being industry leaders and thought the IPhone was a niche product and they didn’t have anything to worry about...well we all know how this story ends.  So how do you know that ECNL is not being overconfident and underestimating GA the same way Nokia underestimated IPhone?


If US Soccer could not sustain as a competitor to ECNL, no one else will. ECNL has been around for over a decade. The top clubs are all in, or moving into, ECNL.


----------



## crush

GT45 said:


> If US Soccer could not sustain as a competitor to ECNL, no one else will. ECNL has been around for over a decade. The top clubs are all in, or moving into, ECNL.


Yay!!!!  It's finally done.  The top clubs have finally arrived.  Yes, we know two of them practically ruined the sport here in socal so their kids could be in the top league with The List.  At least ECNL is not saying they control the list like that GDA thing we were forced with because.


----------



## VegasParent

GT45 said:


> If US Soccer could not sustain as a competitor to ECNL, no one else will. ECNL has been around for over a decade. The top clubs are all in, or moving into, ECNL.


If US Soccer had competent leadership, they could have put ECNL on the ropes in the first year. All they had to do was match the rules in ECNL (allow high school soccer, flexible sub rules, etc) and ECNL would have been in trouble. It was smart of ECNL to take advantage of the DA problems and give big incentives to certain clubs (two teams in each age group) to go "All in ECNL". Those clubs might not have left DA without that carrot dangled in front of them regardless of the rules that people didn't like.


----------



## Kicker4Life

One might even say GDA would have never existed had ECNL not given the power of entry to the DOC’s (the one Crush hate so much) who held out key clubs like Legends and Beach.  

Crush would have made a great Fiction writer.


----------



## crush

VegasParent said:


> If US Soccer had competent leadership, they could have put ECNL on the ropes in the first year. All they had to do was match the rules in ECNL (allow high school soccer, flexible sub rules, etc) and ECNL would have been in trouble. It was smart of ECNL to take advantage of the DA problems and give big incentives to certain clubs (two teams in each age group) to go "All in ECNL". Those clubs might not have left DA without that carrot dangled in front of them regardless of the rules that people didn't like.


It's called a twofer bro.  If you do as I say ((a form of blackmail)) then we will give you two.  If you dare try and leave, we will steal all your customers by telling them you play kick ball and you can;t afford the new shiny car.  And if your a goat looking to leave, well then, you get black listed and all sorts of threats from asshole men who think they control soccer in socal.  It was fun watching one dude race around in a food cart selling water & candy the other day at USL....lol!!!


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> One might even say GDA would have never existed had ECNL not given the power of entry to the DOC’s (the one Crush hate so much) who held out key clubs like Legends and Beach.
> 
> Crush would have made a great Fiction writer.


You ruined the sport bro.  You and a few others I wont name today.  It's all out now.  I'm glad you both got what you wanted.


----------



## Desert Hound

VegasParent said:


> If US Soccer had competent leadership, they could have put ECNL on the ropes in the first year.


They certainly could have relegated ECNL to the 2nd division national league. 

Year 2 started seeing clubs go back into the ECNL. 

And we know the rest.


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> Yep. It is bad soccer. Painful to watch.


Horribly painful, but the kids love it - to some degree.


----------



## Kicker4Life

crush said:


> You ruined the sport bro.  You and a few others I wont name today.  It's all out now.  I'm glad you both got what you wanted.


Like I said...Fictional.....

How did I ruin soccer?  By staying local, with a small club and doing what was best for my DD’s?  By volunteering to be a TM when the team needed someone and making the entire teams life easier?  By passing on the offers from other clubs because I felt the time was better spent engaging with friends, school work and off the field training.
Unlike you I didn’t run around running my mouth about how my DD was being recruited and playing Clubs against each other to see who would give her the best deal (don’t think I forgot that conversation at Silverlakes).

You paint the victim picture well (thus the Fictional writer reference), every once in a while I feel obligated to put your stories in check bc they aren’t 100% true (a little spin doctoring to fit your narrative) and others shouldn’t be misled. 

Do you find it odd that hundreds of thousands of families were able to navigate the Age Split and the GDA debacle without the same misery?


----------



## lafalafa

I dunno about your state or divisions

HS D1-2 in Socal can be pretty competitive with rosters filled with club coaches and players who go on to play D1 in colleges like UCLA, Maryland, Akron, etc.

Club soccer is so dullited that some would say it's "bad" soccer for a lot of the time but with HS at least you can play for your home town with pride as the crowds cheer and possibility raise some banners that will be remembered for years to come.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

lafalafa said:


> I dunno about your state or divisions
> 
> HS D1-2 in Socal can be pretty competitive with rosters filled with club coaches and players who go on to play D1 in colleges like UCLA, Maryland, Akron, etc.
> 
> Club soccer is so dullited that some would say it's "bad" soccer for a lot of the time but with HS at least you can play for your home town with pride as the crowds cheer and possibility raise some banners that will be remembered for years to come.


High school soccer has great players because they were developed by club coaches.  You need club to see good talent in  certain high school teams.   Honestly the road to most should be club soccer until 8th grade. High school soccer for 9-12.  The true elite can play ECNL. Eliminate ECRL and everyone else plays high school sports or flight 1/2 level club soccer


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> Like I said...Fictional.....
> 
> How did I ruin soccer?  By staying local, with a small club and doing what was best for my DD’s?  By volunteering to be a TM when the team needed someone and making the entire teams life easier?  By passing on the offers from other clubs because I felt the time was better spent engaging with friends, school work and off the field training.
> Unlike you I didn’t run around running my mouth about how my DD was being recruited and playing Clubs against each other to see who would give her the best deal (don’t think I forgot that conversation at Silverlakes).
> 
> You paint the victim picture well (thus the Fictional writer reference), every once in a while I feel obligated to put your stories in check bc they aren’t 100% true (a little spin doctoring to fit your narrative) and others shouldn’t be misled.
> 
> Do you find it odd that hundreds of thousands of families were able to navigate the Age Split and the GDA debacle without the same misery?


I didnt ask you to explain yourself, but go ahead.  It;s nice to see how you share my PMs with the group and then now lie about a conversations we had years ago that you seem to remember so well. Well, so do I.  I took notes that day like I always do...lol!  Was this before the 04s got their GDA way or before when it was 03 and if 04 had the chops, they could play up, just like April said.  I told you it was crazy because her current club wouldnt let her play up, remember that conversation?  I then said all these clubs are handing out free handouts and I never knew that was going to happen.  The best deal I got was the same deal all the goats got, free!!!


----------



## crush

lafalafa said:


> I dunno about your state or divisions
> 
> HS D1-2 in Socal can be pretty competitive with rosters filled with club coaches and players who go on to play D1 in colleges like UCLA, Maryland, Akron, etc.
> 
> Club soccer is so dullited that some would say it's "bad" soccer for a lot of the time but with HS at least you can play for your home town with pride as the crowds cheer and *possibility raise some banners that will be remembered for years to come.*


Music to my ears.  Nothing like being a local legend.  I here we might have a season after all.


----------



## Kicker4Life

crush said:


> I didnt ask you to explain yourself, but go ahead.  It;s nice to see how you share my PMs with the group and then now lie about a conversations we had years ago that you seem to remember so well. Well, so do I.  I took notes that day like I always do...lol!  Was this before the 04s got their GDA way or before when it was 03 and if 04 had the chops, they could play up, just like April said.  I told you it was crazy because her current club wouldnt let her play up, remember that conversation?  I then said all these clubs are handing out free handouts and I never knew that was going to happen.  The best deal I got was the same deal all the goats got, free!!!


So if our DD paid their Club Fees, she wasn’t a goat (as tou say it)?  Then you insinuate that people like me pay to have our kids on “Da List” and ruined soccer. Right!
No lie at all....maybe you just forget much of what you ramble on incessantly about because it was in that same conversation.

Nevertheless...you do you.  Keep trying to discount my DD’s journey by your insinuations.  Just make sure to walk the other way of you ever see me at the fields!


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> Do you find it odd that hundreds of thousands of families were able to navigate the Age Split and the GDA debacle without the same misery?


200,000+ customers times $15,000= $3,000,000,000 for soccer.  I guess I was the only one in socal to have a liar for a doc and___________________plus he did_____________________________and this too_________________________.  if you paid, you got the biggest prize of all__________________________.  I know I know, all these hundreds of thousands of happy customers all over the coutry.  BTW, do you remember what I told you what the Doc said?


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> * Just make sure to walk the other way of you ever see me at the fields!*


Ok, thanks for letting me know


----------



## lafalafa

crush said:


> Music to my ears.  Nothing like being a local legend.  I here we might have a season after all.


Playing under the lights in a packed stadium with fans going nuts for the home team is special.  Generations of people attend, the local news folks interview players on camera/audio, articles are written, there is excitement in the air, people are pumped up, waving towels,  everyone loves some hometown heros.

Hoping some fans can attend even at reduced numbers


----------



## crush

lafalafa said:


> Playing under the lights in a packed stadium with fans going nuts for the home team is special.  Generations of people attend, the local news folks interview players on camera/audio, articles are written, there is excitement in the air, people are pumped up, waving towels,  everyone loves some hometown heros.


I know.  i tried to tell all the parents and they just mock me and laugh at me.  HS Soccer sucks and it's horrible.  Only 200,000 reasons why some say soccer is no bueno at school.


----------



## crush

The hate is huge today.  PM of hate...lol!!!  Listen all you macho dads, leave my dd out of this.  Only I speak of my goat, not any of you.  If you see her, smile and say hi and dont mad dog her.  If you see me, keep your ass away and at least 6 x 6 away from me.  I will walk to my dd game with my head held high.  I will not talk to anyone because we will all still have on our mask and I have nothing to say to most of you.  The ones who get me, thanks.  That is a very small % right now so I will be looking over my shoulders at the next USL match.  I do have eyes behind my back, FYI.


----------



## crush

Come and get me!!!


----------



## crush

Actually, i just showed my wife all the Pms and some of the things people say about me on here.  She is now concerned for my safety.  So here's the deal.  I wont come to any USL game or ECNL games for the rest of the year.  Hopefully when Surf Cup roles around in August, I can come in disguise and watch my dd play her last Surf Cup without macho dad looking for me.  Please do not take out your vengeance on my sweet baby girl.  I will stay home and just get the live feed from my best pal.  Next year will be way better and will probably have the best season ever.  I will most likely be in witness protection and that's ok with me.  I'm sick of being me and I'm looking for a fresh start.  800 credit score, new everything.


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> *(don’t think I forgot that conversation at Silverlakes).*


That you just told everyone your side of the conversation from 2016?  5 years ago?  TMs are a trip in this arena.  Carry on TM


----------



## STX

crush said:


> Actually, i just showed my wife all the Pms and some of the things people say about me on here.  She is now concerned for my safety.  So here's the deal.  I wont come to any USL game or ECNL games for the rest of the year.  Hopefully when Surf Cup roles around in August, I can come in disguise and watch my dd play her last Surf Cup without macho dad looking for me.  Please do not take out your vengeance on my sweet baby girl.  I will stay home and just get the live feed from my best pal.  Next year will be way better and will probably have the best season ever.  I will most likely be in witness protection and that's ok with me.  I'm sick of being me and I'm looking for a fresh start.  800 credit score, new everything.


Nobody really cares. But if you want to be anonymous and just let your girl do her thing without you seemingly doing everything you can to continuously screw it up, recommend you start with simply not posting so much (or at all).


----------



## 46n2

Kicker4Life said:


> No one is making fun of your DD.  Simply pointing out that you made decisions (like keeping her in that “toxic” DOC environment for 2 years) so she could win a Natty and then playing the victim.
> 
> Keep trying to twist the narrative. You are the only one dragging your DD into this by constantly trying to sell us on her mistreatment, posting pictures onto this forum of her at various ages with trophies, etc.
> 
> Peace out!


Ha -exactly CNN is his new name 
He’s twisted , lied and fumbled the truth so much he cannot even remember his own stories , Classic!

What a loser trying to lie about what happen and  say the decision wasn’t his to jump ship and leave his kids team behind.

Just like multiple parents out there that have talents kids with 7 different backpacks , What a kook.
Did he say something about karma too....

hey CNN , don’t put words in people’s mouths , you’ve pouted multiple times about your fairytales here , now your changing the narrative -doesn’t work honey.

take a break you’ve become a shell of a human living on this forum lawnmover man.


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> *So if our DD paid their Club Fees, she wasn’t a goat (as tou say it)?  Then you insinuate that people like me pay to have our kids on “Da List” and ruined soccer.*


I missed this because of the warning to make sure I turn away if I see you coming towards me at the fields.  Is that correct?  What if i dont and I just keep walking to where I plan on going and it happens to be told you?  My wife is asking btw?  I never said if someone pays their dues then they make the list.  I always said your dd is a goat and I still stand by that.  We all know who the top top top are.  Its the rest of the goats that are hard to pick. My piss match with you and all the docs in socal back in da day was how they used The List to get people to choose GDA over ECNL and try and crush your opponent.  It was strong arm to me and not fair and all done behind closed doors.  That is my big rub.  I dont trust the way the old Docs were and how some clubs got more benefits then others, all because they did what they were told.  Todays Doc, they have no list to talk about and that is a good thing


----------



## crush

46n2 said:


> *What a loser trying to lie about what happen and  say the decision wasn’t his to jump ship and leave his kids team behind.*


Here folks is another TM.  Lastman is a TM too and so is Kicker.  TMs really care for you and all that matters for a team.  I know why people sign up for TM, do any of you besides the TMs?  I might be attacked by TM at the fields.  Oh know, should I have security details for me?


----------



## GT45

VegasParent said:


> If US Soccer had competent leadership, they could have put ECNL on the ropes in the first year. All they had to do was match the rules in ECNL (allow high school soccer, flexible sub rules, etc) and ECNL would have been in trouble. It was smart of ECNL to take advantage of the DA problems and give big incentives to certain clubs (two teams in each age group) to go "All in ECNL". Those clubs might not have left DA without that carrot dangled in front of them regardless of the rules that people didn't like.


In your opinion, sure. But, DA was not able to, even with the funding behind it. What you are saying is if US Soccer copied ECNL they could have potentially knocked ECNL off its pedestal. So you are agreeing that ECNL has the most desirable product that people want to compete in.


----------



## Kicker4Life

crush said:


> I missed this because of the warning to make sure I turn away if I see you coming towards me at the fields.  Is that correct?  What if i dont and I just keep walking to where I plan on going and it happens to be told you?  My wife is asking btw?  I never said if someone pays their dues then they make the list.  I always said your dd is a goat and I still stand by that.  We all know who the top top top are.  Its the rest of the goats that are hard to pick. My piss match with you and all the docs in socal back in da day was how they used The List to get people to choose GDA over ECNL and try and crush your opponent.  It was strong arm to me and not fair and all done behind closed doors.  That is my big rub.  I dont trust the way the old Docs were and how some clubs got more benefits then others, all because they did what they were told.  Todays Doc, they have no list to talk about and that is a good thing


I said walk the other way if you see me...best for both of us.


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> I said walk the other way if you see me...best for both of us.


I feel nothing towards you Kicker and I could say hi to you.  We obviously dont see eye to eye and that is understandable.  If you feel you need to turn the other way, I wont take offense or get my feelings hurt.  Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## crush

STX said:


> *Nobody really cares. *


Really?


----------



## Glitterhater

crush said:


> and of course Kicker agrees with you.  Kicker got all he wanted and sum.  Listen, we all know what happen.  You guys are a joke.  All of you "pay to play" so I can get what I want for my dd.  Total losers!!!  I'm almost out of here guys, so I will be leaving soon.  I just have to get in a few last punches in before I leave.  Total losers.  Pay $$$$ so my dd can get in the front of the line.  Losers!!!!


Are you ok? You seem a bit.... unhinged? It's not that serious.


----------



## Glitterhater

STX said:


> Nobody really cares. But if you want to be anonymous and just let your girl do her thing without you seemingly doing everything you can to continuously screw it up, recommend you start with simply not posting so much (or at all).


YES- this.

And stop posting her freaking pictures!


----------



## SoccerLocker

GT45 said:


> In your opinion, sure. But, DA was not able to, even with the funding behind it. What you are saying is if US Soccer copied ECNL they could have potentially knocked ECNL off its pedestal. So you are agreeing that ECNL has the most desirable product that people want to compete in.


IF US Soccer had competent leadership they wouldn't have ignored girls when the DA was formed in 2007.  Created demand for a girls top tier and in stepped ECNL in 2009.  They had a 8 year headstart by the time USSF saw the light.


----------



## crush

Glitterhater said:


> YES- this.
> 
> And stop posting her freaking pictures!


Freaking pictures of a goat who played with GOAT FC has you all up in arms?  Who cares?  I only did a test today to see what reaction I would get after 46, the TM, decided to take her shot like she does once every few months.  Tell you what.  I will take a chill pill and wait until next season to post again. This season is not looking good.  GOAT FC rules.  Do you have GOAT FC team up in Nocal?  Sorry I posted a pic when she was 9.  That was wrong of me and I see the error of my ways.  I wont freaking do that again. Sorry about that


----------



## Giesbock

Part of why people respond to Crush aka EJ aka SoccerHelper is that his journey as a passionate soccer dad has similarities to our own.  Most not so involved, some better informed, some more laize-fare about the whole thing, but all of us here care some way or another.  Every time I comment about my kid specifically, I cringe and think ok, somebody's gonna jump my case for making it about my kid rather than league standings or the state of collegiate women's soccer writ large.  But that's why I started poking around here...trying to get some ideas and insights for the best way forward for my kid, because if we're honest, that's who matters most to each of us.  

 I don't want to know what kind of prior history leads to the belligerent talk here, but gotta say, look at the bright side: since most ppl on here apparently either have club players or college players, at least we can afford to indulge our loved ones.  Are we fooling them with dreams of national team access or D1 college play?  Maybe.  But at least we're not scratching for the next meal.


----------



## dad4

crush said:


> Freaking pictures of a goat who played with GOAT FC has you all up in arms?  Who cares?  I only did a test today to see what reaction I would get after 46, the TM, decided to take her shot like she does once every few months.  Tell you what.  I will take a chill pill and wait until next season to post again. This season is not looking good.  GOAT FC rules.  Do you have GOAT FC team up in Nocal?  Sorry I posted a pic when she was 9.  That was wrong of me and I see the error of my ways.  I wont freaking do that again. Sorry about that


No GOAT FC in NorCal.  

But SCC is down to 155 cases today.  Average drops below 105 and it's game on.

Yeah, yeah, 3 weeks after red, 7 day lag and all that.  But it's getting close.


----------



## Giesbock

So with that, I'll say that my kid scored a cool toe-poke goal in friggin' 26 degree conditions and generally rocked it in Austin.  Next day (no idea if coincidence) got an email from a D1.


----------



## 46n2

crush said:


> The hate is huge today.  PM of hate...lol!!!  Listen all you macho dads, leave my dd out of this.  Only I speak of my goat, not any of you.  If you see her, smile and say hi and dont mad dog her.  If you see me, keep your ass away and at least 6 x 6 away from me.  I will walk to my dd game with my head held high.  I will not talk to anyone because we will all still have on our mask and I have nothing to say to most of you.  The ones who get me, thanks.  That is a very small % right now so I will be looking over my shoulders at the next USL match.  I do have eyes behind my back, FYI.


do you do drugs --Honest Question


----------



## Glitterhater

crush said:


> Freaking pictures of a goat who played with GOAT FC has you all up in arms?  Who cares?  I only did a test today to see what reaction I would get after 46, the TM, decided to take her shot like she does once every few months.  Tell you what.  I will take a chill pill and wait until next season to post again. This season is not looking good.  GOAT FC rules.  Do you have GOAT FC team up in Nocal?  Sorry I posted a pic when she was 9.  That was wrong of me and I see the error of my ways.  I wont freaking do that again. Sorry about that


Oh JFC. Never mind, you totally missed the point. You were talking about remaining anonymous, and I said don't post her picture - because you know, that is the opposite of anonymous.


----------



## crush

46n2 said:


> do you do drugs --Honest Question


Before I answer, will you answer me a question first?


----------



## crush

Glitterhater said:


> Oh JFC. Never mind, you totally missed the point. You were talking about remaining anonymous, and I said don't post her picture - because you know, that is the opposite of anonymous.


JFC?


----------



## MacDre

Giesbock said:


> Part of why people respond to Crush aka EJ aka SoccerHelper is that his journey as a passionate soccer dad has similarities to our own.  Most not so involved, some better informed, some more laize-fare about the whole thing, but all of us here care some way or another.  Every time I comment about my kid specifically, I cringe and think ok, somebody's gonna jump my case for making it about my kid rather than league standings or the state of collegiate women's soccer writ large.  But that's why I started poking around here...trying to get some ideas and insights for the best way forward for my kid, because if we're honest, that's who matters most to each of us.
> 
> I don't want to know what kind of prior history leads to the belligerent talk here, but gotta say, look at the bright side: since most ppl on here apparently either have club players or college players, at least we can afford to indulge our loved ones.  Are we fooling them with dreams of national team access or D1 college play?  Maybe.  But at least we're not scratching for the next meal.


Here ya go pal:


----------



## happy9

GT45 said:


> In your opinion, sure. But, DA was not able to, even with the funding behind it. What you are saying is if US Soccer copied ECNL they could have potentially knocked ECNL off its pedestal. So you are agreeing that ECNL has the most desirable product that people want to compete in.


The GDA was poorly executed and not allowing HS was a bad judgement call.  Mirroring ECNL and allowing HS play would have given ECNL fits.  The product on the field would have been a better one (it was a better one , while it lasted).  

The 9 month season made sense, with the emphasis on the 4:1 training to game ratio.  It was a proven and codified approach to development.  The counterargument is that it didn't work for the men's side.  But, the US women are the best in the world.  Why not get behind US Soccer's effort to continue to raise up girls?  On paper it provided consistency and balance.  Less, more meaningful games and a better training environment.  An approach that high level academies all over the world use.  We have a sacred thing called HS sports and we have plenty of multisport athletes.  The approach worked well enough for 8th graders but became less tenable at 9th grade and beyond. It's unfortunate.  I personally preferred the GDA approach, with the addition of allowing HS and other sports.  My DD is no longer a multi sport athlete (unfortunately) and has no interest in HS soccer.  There are many  like her and there are many not like her. 

Just the way it goes I guess.  US Soccer tried to professionalize and codify youth soccer, didn't work.


----------



## crush

Giesbock said:


> Part of why people respond to Crush aka EJ aka SoccerHelper is that his journey as a passionate soccer dad has similarities to our own.  Most not so involved, some better informed, some more laize-fare about the whole thing, but all of us here care some way or another.  Every time I comment about my kid specifically, I cringe and think ok, somebody's gonna jump my case for making it about my kid rather than league standings or the state of collegiate women's soccer writ large.  But that's why I started poking around here...trying to get some ideas and insights for the best way forward for my kid, because if we're honest, that's who matters most to each of us.
> 
> I don't want to know what kind of prior history leads to the belligerent talk here, but gotta say, look at the bright side: since most ppl on here apparently either have club players or college players, at least we can afford to indulge our loved ones.  Are we fooling them with dreams of national team access or D1 college play?  Maybe.  But at least we're not scratching for the next meal.


Amen bro.  My dd just was hoping to play against all the greats.  Just a few more games until she retires.  11 games in the last 3 years is hard on any young athlete.  It wasnt her fault and it sure in the hell wasnt my fault.  No need to keep sharing about the past on here.  You get me and we dont always agree.  23 degree is true grit.  What part of the country did D1 that emailed come from?  I bet cold area with lot's of snow?  Vermont?  Bro, you know I'm always about satire first and then I slap hard in the face and then we laugh it off.  You slap me and then I slap you back.  I speak words only and I get folks on here telling me I better turn around and find another path to the fields.  Can you believe that?  I will jump the fence for Gods sakes if I ever see people I used to have conversations with and even shared a drink or at least lunch.  Next time I will ask these kind folks to read me my club rights and tell me whatever I say at Silverlake's will not be used against me at the soccal soccer forum 5 years later.


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> *The GDA was poorly executed and not allowing HS was a bad judgement call.  .*


Happy, no one agrees with you.  My dd was the only one who cared about it and all the other 200,000+ customers couldnt give a rats ass about HS Soccer.  GDA ring a bell?  Only me and maybe a few other kids cared and I'm still being called names on here.  For some reason, today I had more PMs with nasty things then ever.


----------



## EOTL

happy9 said:


> The GDA was poorly executed and not allowing HS was a bad judgement call.  Mirroring ECNL and allowing HS play would have given ECNL fits.  The product on the field would have been a better one (it was a better one , while it lasted).
> 
> The 9 month season made sense, with the emphasis on the 4:1 training to game ratio.  It was a proven and codified approach to development.  The counterargument is that it didn't work for the men's side.  But, the US women are the best in the world.  Why not get behind US Soccer's effort to continue to raise up girls?  On paper it provided consistency and balance.  Less, more meaningful games and a better training environment.  An approach that high level academies all over the world use.  We have a sacred thing called HS sports and we have plenty of multisport athletes.  The approach worked well enough for 8th graders but became less tenable at 9th grade and beyond. It's unfortunate.  I personally preferred the GDA approach, with the addition of allowing HS and other sports.  My DD is no longer a multi sport athlete (unfortunately) and has no interest in HS soccer.  There are many  like her and there are many not like her.
> 
> Just the way it goes I guess.  US Soccer tried to professionalize and codify youth soccer, didn't work.


Other than the part about not allowing HS soccer being bad judgment, you are wrong as usual. 

The forced 4:1 ratio was a bad idea. It’s great for a handful of kids, and awesome if available in a voluntary basis, but there just aren’t enough families who are ok with that kind of rigidity. Maybe that makes for more soccer drones, but it was financially a bad idea. Plus, making 13 year old kids train 4x a week and then limit what they actually want to do (play) only drives a lot of kids into sports that are more fun, and are also less expensive than what is required by a club that requires training four days a week.  

Oh, and overhauling the system used by what is easily the best country in the world will only make it worse. The US is the best at women’s soccer because far more girls (and then women) play it more and more often for a longer span of years. That’s it. Once you start dictating a one size fits all approach for everyone, you drive people out of the sport, and you take away the one tremendous advantage that the US has over other countries.

The second anyone says that the US should do what all the other counties that are worse do (academies), you know they’re an idiot. Yeah, the US should definitely pattern its youth program after loser Spain, and loser Netherlands, and loser France, and loser Japan. That makes a lot of sense. Great idea.

The one other country that has a decent idea what it is doing is England, which is a little like the US. Like the US, England doesn’t seem to stress over 13 year old girls and lets local clubs do what is best for their customers. England, like the US, also understands that bruisers are far more important at the senior level than all these circus jugglers who are so prized at other European and Japanese youth academies.  England won’t compete with the US over the long haul because England jist doesn’t have enough people, but it has developed a solid girls soccer culture and doesn’t do things to drive kids out of the sport early. And it was the only country that gave the US all it could handle at the last WC.


----------



## Fact

crush said:


> Amen bro.  My dd just was hoping to play against all the greats.  Just a few more games until she retires.  11 games in the last 3 years is hard on any young athlete.  It wasnt her fault and it sure in the hell wasnt my fault.  No need to keep sharing about the past on here.  You get me and we dont always agree.  23 degree is true grit.  What part of the country did D1 that emailed come from?  I bet cold area with lot's of snow?  Vermont?  Bro, you know I'm always about satire first and then I slap hard in the face and then we laugh it off.  You slap me and then I slap you back.  I speak words only and I get folks on here telling me I better turn around and find another path to the fields.  Can you believe that?  I will jump the fence for Gods sakes if I ever see people I used to have conversations with and even shared a drink or at least lunch.  Next time I will ask these kind folks to read me my club rights and tell me whatever I say at Silverlake's will not be used against me at the soccasl soccer forum 5 years later.


My gosh. Just checking in as I hunker down in this cold weather.  Took me only a brief second to figure out Crush is EJ. Dude, when do you plan to mellow out?  You are going to be your dd's worst enemy as she goes off to college.  Hopefully, she'll go somewhere out of your driving range so you can't piss off her coach, if you don't screw that up on her as she tried to be recruited. Some things never change.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Fact said:


> My gosh. Just checking in as I hunker down in this cold weather.  Took me only a brief second to figure out Crush is EJ. Dude, when do you plan to mellow out?  You are going to be your dd's worst enemy as she goes off to college.  Hopefully, she'll go somewhere out of your driving range so you can't piss off her coach, if you don't screw that up on her as she tried to be recruited. Some things never change.


I thought you retired. Nice that you have not lost your zest. Have a great night.


----------



## crush

Glitterhater said:


> *Oh JFC. *


You mean the Christ?


----------



## crush

Fact said:


> My gosh. Just checking in as I hunker down in this cold weather.  Took me only a brief second to figure out Crush is EJ. Dude, when do you plan to mellow out?  You are going to be your dd's worst enemy as she goes off to college.  Hopefully, she'll go somewhere out of your driving range so you can't piss off her coach, if you don't screw that up on her as she tried to be recruited. Some things never change.


Kicker, is this you?  Fact is an old account everyone.  These guys never change.  Carry on Fact.  Wow, another personality.  I'll let my dd know Fact is back.  Maps, Fact is back....lol!!!


----------



## Fact

crush said:


> Kicker, is this you?  Fact is an old account everyone.  These guys never change.  Carry on Fact.  Wow, another personality.  I'll let my dd know Fact is back.  Maps, Fact is back....lol!!!


Sorry, all the Covid ranting got old quickly so I checked out.  Nieces playing other sports in a better state now.


----------



## crush

Fact said:


> Sorry, all the Covid ranting got old quickly so I checked out.  Nieces playing other sports in a better state now.


OK.  I'm sure you can see I havent missed a beat.  Plus, my dd is on the same team now more then any other team so I thought you would be proud of her ((us)) for not hopping around looking for a free handout in these tough times.  Instead, you talk about her recruiting again which keeps reminding me of the past.  Why do you care?  If you PM me, I will let you in on a little secret.  But you half to promise never to tell what I tell you, cool?


----------



## crush

This was a long day for me.  I'm pooped.  Good night to all of you.  I have been warned more today about recruiting then at any other time.  For the record, my dd can go to any state school or community college she desires.  Sports is secondary, just so you guys know.  Her grades are amazing and that alone is all she needs.  If she is allowed to walk on that would be wonderful.  I hope some school could find a spot for her if she decides to play college ball.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Fact said:


> Sorry, all the Covid ranting got old quickly so I checked out.  Nieces playing other sports in a better state now.


The sovereign state of Australia?


----------



## Fact

LASTMAN14 said:


> The sovereign state of Australia?


Not a bad thought, but Texas.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Fact said:


> Not a bad thought, but Texas.


My neighbor has dual citizenship. His wife and kids are in Australia. It’s wide open. They are Americans, but lived there prior when he worked for Figi Water. They may go back on a more permanent level again, but I don’t think Red Bull will let him go.


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> Happy, no one agrees with you.  My dd was the only one who cared about it and all the other 200,000+ customers couldnt give a rats ass about HS Soccer.  GDA ring a bell?  Only me and maybe a few other kids cared and I'm still being called names on here.  For some reason, today I had more PMs with nasty things then ever.


I have no idea what you are talking about..


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about..


OK, just like all the others.  I dont agree with you on why GDA messed up with High School Soccer.  It was fatal business decision, that's what I was trying to say.


----------



## crush

BTW, to all my dear friends.  Please do not send me anymore threats or tell me my dd is in jeopardy of being recruited.  First and foremost, you and your loser friends have no idea wtf your talking about.  Plus, we all agree grades and school comes first.  Guess what losers, she got that all covered.  I love the major she has decided on and the school is called ____________________________________.  You know who you are loser.  I only use my words and I have never threaten anyone.  I only use my words and these losers get all huffy and puffy.  Use your words tough guy(s), not threats.  Seriously, if anyone of you see's me at Silverlakes, Oceanside, Great Park or any field for that matter, come and say hi.  If you have nothing good to say and you feel anger and rage, then please turn your ass around and get away from me.  I do not need bad attitude around me.  Some of you are the biggest ___________________________________I have ever met.  Total_____________________________________________________.   Lastly, to the one's who have been after me for four years.  Checkmate!!!


----------



## crush

I did have 46 ask an honest question for once.  She cares so much for parents and the welfare of all the young girls.  Typical caring and loving TM we all have experienced.  I do not take drugs.  I do not drink booz.  I do not do this and I dont do that.  I use my brain and poke people.  They hate it, especially when their up to no good.  I lost 30 LBs and live off the earth and all it's good stuff.  I eat veggies, fruit, nuts and water.  I feel the best I have ever felt.  That is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

*Fact check:*  I do not "take" drugs.  It does not mean I never have "taken" drugs and it 100% means I am open to always trying something new.  I always have an open mind so my mind can be open.


----------



## crush




----------



## crush

*I want all of you to watch this.  I dont care if you dont like me, but do me one favor.  Watch this and keep an eye on all you love.  *


----------



## crush

Fact said:


> Sorry, all the Covid ranting got old quickly so I checked out.  Nieces playing other sports in a better state now.


Liar!!!


----------



## 46n2

Id like to post the obvious..
6 post you wrote to yourself on a forum this morning --- starting at 5:19,5:27,5:37 ,6:20,6:38 and 6:42.  
You honestly think people care but they dont man.  Why do you think anyone cares , why........
You are a special type of stupid
What you should do is focus this energy on your family or career, you'd be very successful with your grit.
But instead, you become the tired old story with nothing to offer on here.


----------



## Kicker4Life

crush said:


> Kicker, is this you?


Nope!


----------



## crush

46n2 said:


> *6 post you wrote to yourself on a forum this morning --- starting at 5:19,5:27,5:37 ,6:20,6:38 and 6:42.
> You honestly think people care
> You are a special type of stupid*


You seem to care, right?  You can;t say no one cares because you care.  You even follow me and that's weird. You should say only I and a few rich dads who have something to hide follow me.  If you ignore me TM, then you might be right.


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> Nope!


Lastman?


----------



## crush

I actually would love to get some of you in a club soccer board room and roast the hell out of each of you.  Liar lair pants on fire!!!


----------



## 46n2

crush said:


> You seem to care, right?  You can;t say no one cares because you care.  You even follow me and that's weird. You should say only I and a few rich dads who have something to hide follow me.  If you ignore me TM, then you might be right.


you're a special type of stupid and delusional if you think I follow you , your just in my way on a soccer forum I read while I drink my morning tea honey.

based on your post like I said before you suffer from HPD and its really sad, truly it is....

Multiple user names, irregular and scattered comments and post, you have no set path or direction in which you can profit from in these post.

You truly feel like you provide a service, but your more like a commercial for assisted living.

CNN, Comic Relief (barely) or maybe just Kramer could be your next user names , or maybe our little Jester

Only reason I reply is because I have a few more minutes of time .

Go spend some time with your family , instead of 50-100 post a day on a fucking free forum and free your mind , your not well, ask your wife ......


----------



## Y_T

crush said:


>


----------



## crush

46n2 said:


> *Go spend some time with your family , instead of 50-100 post a day on a fucking free forum and free your mind , your not well, ask your wife ......*


Are you ok?  Do you take drugs with your tea?  Seriously, are you ok?  PM me like Fact did and I will let you in on a little secret.  Just for you.  I cant PM Kicker because he rats me out every time.  He even records my conversations at Silverlakes fields 5 years ago and remembers it like it was yesterday. What other avatars are you and lastman and probably kicker use?  Be honest with the group too........  All mad at me for some reason.  Now what could that be TM?  Seriously, are you well?


----------



## crush

YT, thanks for keeping me straight.  I let a few avatars get to me.  Tell you all what.  I will leave for the day and go have some tea.  You guys go ahead and get back to all that expansion talk.  I say 20 teams in.  Let them all play


----------



## Kicker4Life

crush said:


> Are you ok?  Do you take drugs with your tea?  Seriously, are you ok?  PM me like Fact did and I will let you in on a little secret.  Just for you.  I cant PM Kicker because he rats me out every time.  He even records my conversations at Silverlakes fields 5 years ago and remembers it like it was yesterday. What other avatars are you and lastman and probably kicker use?  Be honest with the group too........  All mad at me for some reason.  Now what could that be TM?  Seriously, are you well?


Only exposing false hoods and miss truths.


----------



## Tyler Durden

In the end 99.99% of these girls end up having a career in something other than soccer.  Enjoy the ride.  Go to the best school that your child can get into.  

If soccer can get you assistance that gets you into a school that you could not get into on your own, that is great.  If soccer helps a family get the financial assistance they need for their child to go to school, that is great.

If your child thrives on being on a team and feels that the sacrifices are worth forgoing the normal student experience, that is great.  

A lot of parents are over the top with this youth soccer pathway and it is borderline toxic.  We probably all suffer from being the super type A personality that wants curate our child's soccer experience and youth soccer community is filled with flawed people just like us.   I too was one of those parents and I seen now that it was all ridiculous and in the end the time I spent may have been better spent.  

Best of luck to all the parents on the board and remind you all to take it easy becuase it all comes to an end at some point.  Next chapter, you wil. be hoping to be around for your grandchildren.


----------



## LASTMAN14

crush said:


> Are you ok?  Do you take drugs with your tea?  Seriously, are you ok?  PM me like Fact did and I will let you in on a little secret.  Just for you.  I cant PM Kicker because he rats me out every time.  He even records my conversations at Silverlakes fields 5 years ago and remembers it like it was yesterday. What other avatars are you and lastman and probably kicker use?  Be honest with the group too........  All mad at me for some reason.  Now what could that be TM?  Seriously, are you well?


Your not well. You give me credit one day for being a team manager and now you accuse of me of having another handle inside of 24 hours. It’s insane. Just to be clear I’ve had the same handle for 8 years. Please keep me out of your conversations.


----------



## MacDre

LASTMAN14 said:


> Your not well. You give me credit one day for being a team manager and now you accuse of me of having another handle inside of 24 hours. It’s insane. Just to be clear I’ve had the same handle for 8 years. Please keep me out of your conversations.


----------



## crush

LASTMAN14 said:


> Your not well. You give me credit one day for being a team manager and now you accuse of me of having another handle inside of 24 hours. It’s insane. Just to be clear I’ve had the same handle for 8 years. Please keep me out of your conversations.


I believe you Lastman.  I ask because I trip out on how Fact just showed up one day.  I do ask one favor of you and your pal Kicker.  Please and I mean pretty please, if you see me at the fields, can you kindly turn away and walk away from me and my wife?  I promise from hear on out to never mention your name or Kickers name.  I will not say a word about TM positions and all that stuff too.  I will focus on soccer and expansion, just like YT told me to do.  I hope YT can see I dont start these things.  In Fact, before 46 baited me yesterday, I was doing just find and dandy.


----------



## LASTMAN14

MacDre said:


>





MacDre said:


>


“...I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd.”


----------



## VegasParent

GT45 said:


> In your opinion, sure. But, DA was not able to, even with the funding behind it. What you are saying is if US Soccer copied ECNL they could have potentially knocked ECNL off its pedestal. So you are agreeing that ECNL has the most desirable product that people want to compete in.


No I don't' agree with that at all. What I'm saying is the DA leadership thought they could just say we're US Soccer and we don't have to adjust to customer feedback. I remember the Real Colorado DOC saying something along the lines that all things equal they will stay DA but give us two teams in each age group we will come back to ECNL. If ECNL was the most desirable product why give top clubs incentives to come back? It was good business of ECNL to do that to bring back clubs but it doesn't mean the product was the best. In fact it shows that they had go above and beyond to compete with DA. There were plenty of positives about DA and it could have been even better if they made the necessary adjustments.


----------



## crush

VegasParent said:


> No I don't' agree with that at all. What I'm saying is the DA leadership thought they could just say we're US Soccer and we don't have to adjust to customer feedback. *I remember *the Real Colorado DOC saying something along the lines that all things equal they will stay DA but give us two teams in each age group we will come back to ECNL. If ECNL was the most desirable product why give top clubs incentives to come back? It was good business of ECNL to do that to bring back clubs but it doesn't mean the product was the best. In fact it shows that they had go above and beyond to compete with DA. There were plenty of positives about DA and it could have been even better if they made the necessary adjustments.


Oh boy, do I remember.  I heard a lot of weird sh*t was going on out in Vegas.  I have pals everywhere.  I wont share what I know.  Remember, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.


----------



## El Clasico

crush said:


> You seem to care, right?  You can;t say no one cares because you care.  You even follow me and that's weird. You should say only I and a few rich dads who have something to hide follow me.  If you ignore me TM, then you might be right.


I care.

Preach on brother..


----------



## crush

El Clasico said:


> I care.
> 
> Preach on brother..


*RIP Rush!!!* I did NOT always agree with him but he was a legend. Said some stupid things ((who hasnt, right clasico bro?). Any way, I'm going to spend time with my best friend. As so many have said, I must be crazy and or on drugs. My poor wife of almost 24 years. You could imagine how hard it is to be married in these times, especially to a nut like me. No laughing matter. Me and her see eye to eye unlike any friend i have. We both give each other time and space as we manuver these difficult times for all of us. Love you guys and be nice to each other at the fields. I promise not to turn away if I see any of you


----------



## GT45

VegasParent said:


> No I don't' agree with that at all. What I'm saying is the DA leadership thought they could just say we're US Soccer and we don't have to adjust to customer feedback. I remember the Real Colorado DOC saying something along the lines that all things equal they will stay DA but give us two teams in each age group we will come back to ECNL. If ECNL was the most desirable product why give top clubs incentives to come back? It was good business of ECNL to do that to bring back clubs but it doesn't mean the product was the best. In fact it shows that they had go above and beyond to compete with DA. There were plenty of positives about DA and it could have been even better if they made the necessary adjustments.


Wrong. Clubs were trying to come back to ECNL after the first year. The reason DA clubs like LAFC/Slammers got two teams was because they already had two teams (one in ECNL and one in DA). So to go back to all in ECNL they would have lost about 5-6 good teams as they would have been combined into only one team. By giving them two teams the DA team slides in as one team and the ECNL team stays in tact. This way the club does not lose money by losing 5-6 of their better teams.

What you said previously is that if DA copied ECNL rules they would have won out. So if DA replicated what ECNL was offering they would have won in your opinion. Of course that is because the assumption is that US Soccer backing would win out. I don't necessarily disagree with that. But ECNL has been strong for over a decade, and in the end they did win out. Their product offering was better than US Soccer's.


----------



## VegasParent

GT45 said:


> Wrong. Clubs were trying to come back to ECNL after the first year. The reason DA clubs like LAFC/Slammers got two teams was because they already had two teams (one in ECNL and one in DA). So to go back to all in ECNL they would have lost about 5-6 good teams as they would have been combined into only one team. By giving them two teams the DA team slides in as one team and the ECNL team stays in tact. This way the club does not lose money by losing 5-6 of their better teams.
> 
> What you said previously is that if DA copied ECNL rules they would have won out. So if DA replicated what ECNL was offering they would have won in your opinion. Of course that is because the assumption is that US Soccer backing would win out. I don't necessarily disagree with that. But ECNL has been strong for over a decade, and in the end they did win out. Their product offering was better than US Soccer's.


Before DA those clubs only had one team per age group in ECNL correct? So again, if ECNL was the superior product why did they need an additional team per age group to return? Because ECNL made that offer. Return and get two teams per age group or you're out of ECNL. As a business decision any DOC would take that offer. More $$ having 2 teams on an elite platform. Blues kept a team in each league because they were winning ECNL championships and took advantage of the loophole. And honestly even if DA had copied all the rules I think the offer of 2 teams per age group would have drawn some clubs back to ECNL anyway. It's good business for the club although I think it diminishes the "Elite" tag. A lot of those second teams have losing records in most age groups.


----------



## Fact

46n2 said:


> You honestly think people care but they dont man.  Why do you think anyone cares , why........


@crush I logged on because I heard about Bob Turner, we go way back, I never liked him and wanted to see if the forum had some info on what happened.  That's it. Sorry not lying.

As far as anyone caring, yes you have pissed a lot of people off, but not me.  I don't know you so I can't take anything you say personally.  I hope you are telling the truth about your dd being recruited.  Just please tone it down. With all this cancel culture someone might try to use your posts against your dd and that would be a shame.  Seriously, wishing your dd the best.  There is plenty of spots in college for everyone that wants to play. Cheers!


----------



## EOTL

l


Fact said:


> @crush I logged on because I heard about Bob Turner, we go way back, I never liked him and wanted to see if the forum had some info on what happened.  That's it. Sorry not lying.
> 
> As far as anyone caring, yes you have pissed a lot of people off, but not me.  I don't know you so I can't take anything you say personally.  I hope you are telling the truth about your dd being recruited.  Just please tone it down. With all this cancel culture someone might try to use your posts against your dd and that would be a shame.  Seriously, wishing your dd the best.  There is plenty of spots in college for everyone that wants to play. Cheers!


Cancel culture?  Do you mean accountability for one’s statements and actions? It’s like someone convinced magats they could say whatever the f**k they want without repercussions. It’s exactly like that person was wrong.


----------



## GT45

VegasParent said:


> Before DA those clubs only had one team per age group in ECNL correct? So again, if ECNL was the superior product why did they need an additional team per age group to return? Because ECNL made that offer. Return and get two teams per age group or you're out of ECNL. As a business decision any DOC would take that offer. More $$ having 2 teams on an elite platform. Blues kept a team in each league because they were winning ECNL championships and took advantage of the loophole. And honestly even if DA had copied all the rules I think the offer of 2 teams per age group would have drawn some clubs back to ECNL anyway. It's good business for the club although I think it diminishes the "Elite" tag. A lot of those second teams have losing records in most age groups.


Yes, that is correct that they only had one team in ECNL before DA existed. But, what club in their right mind would not want to elite teams (one in each platform)?  Only a select few were awarded this privilege. They had to meet certain performance standards. When they were granted this opportunity, they were beneficiaries of additional talent heading to their clubs. So now they have extra talent. From my understanding this two team deal was meant to be temporary to allow this extra talent to graduate out. I do not know that the temporary status of this is still the plan though.

You seem to not understand the financial aspect for clubs. They would not just move back to ECNL and lose all of that money. They needed/wanted to keep their talent/teams for financial reasons.

Slammers left DA because they did not like what it offered. Same with Michigan Hawks. Blues chose to offer both platforms. But all three clubs were able to have two elite teams in each age group. To each their own. 

*THE DA DEBATE CONTINUES: “IT WASN’T THE BEST FIT.” -SLAMMERS FC*


----------



## Kicker4Life

EOTL said:


> l
> 
> 
> Cancel culture?  Do you mean accountability for one’s statements and actions? It’s like someone convinced magats they could say whatever the f**k they want without repercussions. It’s exactly like that person was wrong.


Funny....you’ve been on the forum for years before Trump as elected and we’re just as much of an asshat then as you are now.  Were you protecting the world from “Magats” then too or is it just your newest excuse to be an asshole?


----------



## VegasParent

GT45 said:


> Yes, that is correct that they only had one team in ECNL before DA existed. But, what club in their right mind would not want to elite teams (one in each platform)?  Only a select few were awarded this privilege. They had to meet certain performance standards. When they were granted this opportunity, they were beneficiaries of additional talent heading to their clubs. So now they have extra talent. From my understanding this two team deal was meant to be temporary to allow this extra talent to graduate out. I do not know that the temporary status of this is still the plan though.
> 
> *You seem to not understand the financial aspect for clubs. They would not just move back to ECNL and lose all of that money. They needed/wanted to keep their talent/teams for financial reasons.*
> 
> Slammers left DA because they did not like what it offered. Same with Michigan Hawks. Blues chose to offer both platforms. But all three clubs were able to have two elite teams in each age group. To each their own.
> 
> *THE DA DEBATE CONTINUES: “IT WASN’T THE BEST FIT.” -SLAMMERS FC*


I specifically said it was good business. And of course they are going to come up with a reason other than we were going to lose money to justify the reason. Blues were not a threat to lose their ECNL team because they were winning championships. The other clubs were not and were given the ultimatum to either come back and get two teams or lose ECNL. That's why Surf lost ECNL.


----------



## GT45

VegasParent said:


> I specifically said it was good business. And of course they are going to come up with a reason other than we were going to lose money to justify the reason. Blues were not a threat to lose their ECNL team because they were winning championships. The other clubs were not and were given the ultimatum to either come back and get two teams or lose ECNL. That's why Surf lost ECNL.


Yes many teams lost ECNL that chose to go DA. They did not meet the performance standard to have both, What you and are are not seeing eye to eye on is that the reason ECNL offered some clubs two teams to come back was because these clubs had two teams in two separate leagues (ECNL and DA). Blues did not get two teams to come back later. Surf did not get two teams to come back later. Real So Cal did not to come back later. But, teams like Slammers and Hawks did because they had teams in both leagues, and they wanted back in (and out of DA) on their own accord, not just because DA folded. Once DA folded, no one was offered two teams.

We are going to have to agree to disagree here. As I think others are likely tired of our back and forth.


----------



## Technician72

Trip with the oldest DD this weekend in Arizona and it was good to see the kids have fun and continue to compete. Saw a few of the Legends teams in various age groups that I would assume shift to the ECNL slots with the expansion. The southwest division is deep with talent and more locations for consumers to chose from. Glad to see the landscape and regions get more representation in what can be tough distances to travel for exposure via platform.

Safe travels to those out and about!


----------



## gotothebushes




----------



## EOTL

Kicker4Life said:


> Funny....you’ve been on the forum for years before Trump as elected and we’re just as much of an asshat then as you are now.  Were you protecting the world from “Magats” then too or is it just your newest excuse to be an asshole?


For the record, I wasn’t here before Cadet Bone Spurs arrived. Anything special planned to mourn that “worthless shred of human debris” Rich Limpballs?


----------



## Kicker4Life

[





EOTL said:


> For the record, I wasn’t here before Cadet Bone Spurs arrived. Anything special planned to mourn that “worthless shred of human debris” Rich Limpballs?


Calling BS, but OK Scotty boy. 

An Oxycotton party maybe.....


----------



## EOTL

Kicker4Life said:


> [
> Calling BS, but OK Scotty boy.
> 
> An Oxycotton party maybe.....


I wish I’d thought of that.


----------



## soccer4us

This went out to CA ecnl clubs today(got it from a friend whose part of an ecnl club):




This email is being sent due to ongoing discussions regarding the state of play for youth sports in California, and the significant confusion and question that surrounds this issue.


The most recent order from the State of California, from January 25, is available here: https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/COVID-19/Youth-Sports-FAQ.aspx


Updated in this document, the California Governor’s order regarding prohibitions on youth sports teams traveling out of state applies to participation in all competitions, not just tournaments.   This is broader language than previously with respect to travel.

Also updated in this document, teams in California counties with certain “color zones” are allowed to have competition, and may travel to adjacent counties for competition, if they are in the same allowed color zone. Every club should evaluate what is applicable to their organization in this instance.

We understand that there are pending court cases and ongoing lobbying efforts to change these restrictions and orders, some specific to youth sports, and that they may change at any time. If you are aware of changes, please share them with us, and the league will do the same.

US Club Soccer, through its website and in discussion with its staff, has made clear that its insurance and sanctioning do not apply when competitions are held in violation of local or state law. While separate insurance may be purchased by some teams, a lack of formal sanctioning means that referees are not authorized or covered under US Soccer insurance, there is no disciplinary jurisdiction for US Club and US Soccer in the event of disciplinary issues, and there is uncertainty regarding jurisdiction and application of SafeSport provisions. 

As a reminder, no ECNL sanctioned competition can occur unless and until it is clear from both CA state and local authorities that participation is not legally prohibited or restricted. We understand the challenges that everyone faces at this time—player, coach, and club—but we believe this is the responsible course of action to protect all involved. 

Thank you for all your work. We continue to hope for a return to normalcy in the near future, and we hope to see progress soon.



Sad all the power is in the hands of one person for CA ecnl clubs...and most CA teams in general.


----------



## crush

Fact said:


> @crush I logged on because I heard about Bob Turner, we go way back, I never liked him and wanted to see if the forum had some info on what happened.  That's it. Sorry not lying.
> 
> As far as anyone caring, yes you have pissed a lot of people off, but not me.  I don't know you so I can't take anything you say personally.  I hope you are telling the truth about your dd being recruited.  Just please tone it down. With all this cancel culture someone might try to use your posts against your dd and that would be a shame.  Seriously, wishing your dd the best.  There is plenty of spots in college for everyone that wants to play. Cheers!


Thank you Fact.  I dont know who to believe now.  However, you were the one who baiting me when I came back on here to see what was up, remember me and Maps?  The secret is to slow down and relax.  No hurry.  I just want to help make things better for the next group of players and their parents who fly and drive and spend thousands each year for a service.  I will try and believe you now.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

soccer4us said:


> This went out to CA ecnl clubs today(got it from a friend whose part of an ecnl club):
> 
> 
> US Club Soccer, through its website and in discussion with its staff, has made clear that its insurance and sanctioning do not apply when competitions are held in violation of local or state law. While separate insurance may be purchased by some teams, a lack of formal sanctioning means that referees are not authorized or covered under US Soccer insurance, there is no disciplinary jurisdiction for US Club and US Soccer in the event of disciplinary issues, and there is uncertainty regarding jurisdiction and application of SafeSport provisions.
> 
> As a reminder, no ECNL sanctioned competition can occur unless and until it is clear from both CA state and local authorities that participation is not legally prohibited or restricted. We understand the challenges that everyone faces at this time—player, coach, and club—but we believe this is the responsible course of action to protect all involved.
> 
> Thank you for all your work. We continue to hope for a return to normalcy in the near future, and we hope to see progress soon.


They forgot to add "Dont forget that club fees for year 2 of non soccer are due by May"  LOL


----------



## crush

Hey @allthefellas, @someTMs, all mama bears, former Docs, new Docs and all others reading this,  please forgive me again for getting all fired up and letting my old pals trigger me.  I got triggered by 46.  I was told to watch out and but I didnt listen. I do ask if you guys could just leave me alone.  You know who are.  Stop it, please.  I promise to start focusing on soccer only takes.  I have good advice to give.  It's all free too and I love to help others.  PMs are always welcomed.  Thanks to two very nice dads that PM me some words of love and encouragement.  I dont hold things in like others.  It's good to dump it all out sometimes.  No more you guys, please leave me alone.  Thank you kindly from me, my awesome wife and ds and dd.


----------



## timmyh

crush said:


> Hey @allthefellas, @someTMs, all mama bears, former Docs, new Docs and all others reading this,  please forgive me again for getting all fired up and letting my old pals trigger me.  I got triggered by 46.  I was told to watch out and but I didnt listen. I do ask if you guys could just leave me alone.  You know who are.  Stop it, please.  I promise to start focusing on soccer only takes.  I have good advice to give.  It's all free too and I love to help others.  PMs are always welcomed.  Thanks to two very nice dads that PM me some words of love and encouragement.  I dont hold things in like others.  It's good to dump it all out sometimes.  No more you guys, please leave me alone.  Thank you kindly from me, my awesome wife and ds and dd.


This is a truly bizarre post, even by your standards. You do know that if you want to be left alone, and if you want people to "stop, " all you have to do is to stop posting and trying to bring attention to yourself, right?

If it makes you feel better about breaking your addiction to being in this forum 24/7, your "advice" and stories aren't actually very helpful to anyone.


----------



## 46n2

Exactly


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

timmyh said:


> This is a truly bizarre post, even by your standards. You do know that if you want to be left alone, and if you want people to "stop, " all you have to do is to stop posting and trying to bring attention to yourself, right?
> 
> If it makes you feel better about breaking your addiction to being in this forum 24/7, your "advice" and stories aren't actually very helpful to anyone.


I get it.  Crush rambles and it's tough to read his emails.  Crush, keep it simple.   
For those that are spewing hatred towards Crush, show your post to your kids and spouse and I guarantee that they would be embarassed to be associated with you.   
Last I checked, this was a grown up site to talk soccer and soccer related topics we can agree to disagree. but stop the bullying because none of us are teenagers on this site.


----------



## timmyh

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I get it.  Crush rambles and it's tough to read his emails.  Crush, keep it simple.
> For those that are spewing hatred towards Crush, show your post to your kids and spouse and I guarantee that they would be embarassed to be associated with you.
> Last I checked, this was a grown up site to talk soccer and soccer related topics we can agree to disagree. but stop the bullying because none of us are teenagers on this site.


Fair enough. Wasn't intending to bully, but parts of my last post were indeed unnecessary and unkind.  My sincere apologies, Crush.

I still think the gist is helpful, and it's meant to be in that spirit. If posting is causing you pain because people feel the need to respond and correct what is often misleading information, there is a really simple solution. Don't post.


----------



## Surf Zombie

So getting back on track, anyone hear any further expansion gossip? I’m sticking with my earlier prediction. Handful of clubs added in mid-west & Ohio valley plus Top Hat & FC Virginia if they can bury the hatchet with ECNL and get in.


----------



## gotothebushes

Surf Zombie said:


> So getting back on track, anyone hear any further expansion gossip? I’m sticking with my earlier prediction. Handful of clubs added in mid-west & Ohio valley plus Top Hat & FC Virginia if they can bury the hatchet with ECNL and get in.


Top Hat controls that region for GA but I can totally see them jumping to ECNL. FC Virginia might stay though...


----------



## STX

gotothebushes said:


> Top Hat controls that region for GA but I can totally see them jumping to ECNL. FC Virginia might stay though...


Both Tophat and TSJ Virginia have been trying everything possible to get into ECNL, and have been since last spring when the DA folded. 

Both want into ECNL clearly would be assets to the league by any possible criteria, but there are politics involved.  Their main backyard competitors, Louden and Concord Fire, are campaigning mightily (and so far successfully) to keep them out.


----------



## Surf Zombie

STX said:


> Both Tophat and TSJ Virginia have been trying everything possible to get into ECNL, and have been since last spring when the DA folded.
> 
> Both want into ECNL clearly would be assets to the league by any possible criteria, but there are politics involved.  Their main backyard competitors, Louden and Concord Fire, are campaigning mightily (and so far successfully) to keep them out.


Yes. Handful of clubs left in GA in that same boat.

Top Hat- Concord
FCV- Louden
NEFC- FC Stars/Scorpions
Nationals- Michigan Hawks
Cincinnati DA-Ohio Premier  

Here in MA Scorpions and Stars are separated by about an hours drive and pull kids from different areas.  NEFC is in the middle and would compete for players with both.


----------



## crush

timmyh said:


> Fair enough. Wasn't intending to bully, but parts of my last post were indeed unnecessary and unkind.  My sincere apologies, Crush.
> 
> I still think the gist is helpful, and it's meant to be in that spirit. If posting is causing you pain because people feel the need to respond and correct what is often misleading information, there is a really simple solution. Don't post.


I forgive you


----------



## Giesbock

I’m not convinced that it’s a bad thing being “left in GA”.  Respected leadership that’s trying to navigate through the most challenging environment I can think of. My kid loves her coach and team mates, they’re learning and improving. Go GA!


----------



## Kicker4Life

Giesbock said:


> My kid loves her coach and team mates, they’re learning and improving.


The most important part of it all!!!!  Congrats!


----------



## crush

Giesbock said:


> I’m not convinced that it’s a bad thing being “left in GA”.  Respected leadership that’s trying to navigate through the most challenging environment I can think of. My kid loves her coach and team mates, they’re learning and improving. Go GA!


You will find out soon bro if it's good, bad or flat out ugly thing.  Respect is key word and i respect you for your positive spin.  I love your attitude and I'm sure your dd is learning one way to be.  Me however, I was pissed off bro in 2016 until just recently when the GDA was crushed and knocked out. That league only lasted three sum seasons.  GA seems stronger and for the kids. I hope it can stay in business longer then three years.  I even shared with others how pissed off I was.  I believe in getting stuff off your chest too  Today, the tables are turned. 2021/2022 ECNL is the place to be if you want competition and the real challenge. I wish your goat could come over and play with us. I do wish both leagues nothing but the best


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> The *most important part* of it all!!!!  Congrats!


I love ((my dd)) winning way more but you already knew that


----------



## happy9

Giesbock said:


> I’m not convinced that it’s a bad thing being “left in GA”.  Respected leadership that’s trying to navigate through the most challenging environment I can think of. My kid loves her coach and team mates, they’re learning and improving. Go GA!


Keep your eye on the ball.  Ask any college coach and they will tell you that a player's environment is key to their development.  Leagues are important but a stable environment and a happy athlete are more important.

The GA has their work cut out for them.  Their leadership team is legit and respected and looks like they are willing to work across league lines.


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> Keep your eye on the ball.  Ask any college coach and they will tell you that a player's environment is key to their development.  Leagues are important but a stable environment and a happy athlete are more important.
> 
> The GA has their work cut out for them.  Their leadership team is legit and respected and looks like they are willing to work across league lines.


Happy, it sucks though for kids stuck in the middle, again.  This has been a complete and utter disaster for all of us.  Stable environment my ass!  I know of none unless of course your on the inside.  No soccer or sports in socal for 12 months ((unless your on the inside)).  No one is happy, Happy!


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> Happy, it sucks though for kids stuck in the middle, again.  This has been a complete and utter disaster for all of us.  Stable environment my ass!  I know of none unless of course your on the inside.  No soccer or sports in socal for 12 months ((unless your on the inside)).  No one is happy, Happy!


Kids are always stuck in the middle when adults are running things. Up to you to make your current environment stable.  The league stuff will work itself out.  A goat is a goat - college coaches know this.


----------



## Goforgoal

Giesbock said:


> I’m not convinced that it’s a bad thing being “left in GA”.  Respected leadership that’s trying to navigate through the most challenging environment I can think of. My kid loves her coach and team mates, they’re learning and improving. Go GA!


Right? The elitist attitude in this thread is getting a bit thick.  Maybe we should ask MAP to come back and chime in.


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> Kids are always stuck in the middle when adults are running things. *Up to you to make your current environment stable.*  The league stuff will work itself out.  A goat is a goat - college coaches know this.


You see, the problem is what you just said.  I'm not judging you at all Happy.  My big rub is the lack of competition and winning.  Where is winning? This is BS if your about pure competition and winning.  So Happy, you say it's up to me to make the environment stable?  I dont get that logic bro. The club is the business and I'm the customer.  Why is it up to me?   A goat is a goat and the only true goats I know have to win and they have to be in the highest of highest competition.


----------



## crush

Goforgoal said:


> Right? The elitist attitude in this thread is getting a bit thick.  Maybe we should ask MAP to come back and chime in.


You think?  This is so easy to call.  Hello, open your eyes folks.  Can you see what I see or are you all blind?  Where is Maps?  Come back Maps, some need a big rebuke by you.  Truth teller, please come back.  Maps is the only one that tells it like it is.  No sugar or spice to make everyone feel nice.  Talk about hijacking a youth sport.  Just wait until we see what's under the covers.....lol!!!


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> You see, the problem is what you just said.  I'm not judging you at all Happy.  My big rub is the lack of competition and winning.  Where is winning? This is BS if your about pure competition and winning.  So Happy, you say it's up to me to make the environment stable?  I dont get that logic bro. The club is the business and I'm the customer.  Why is it up to me?   A goat is a goat and the only true goats I know have to win and they have to be in the highest of highest competition.


winning is over rated and does nothing to build character.  Ask Michael Jordan.


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> winning is over rated and does nothing to build character.  Ask Michael Jordan.


I think it shouldnt be the end all, but it should be the goal at the end.  Winning for many here is getting a deal and it stops there.  I saw it for the last three years.  I get it and that is why ECNL is awesome.  I will only say that having winning attitude is what makes a true goat what to win the game, the tournament, the playoffs and the championship.  We all come in different sizes, shapes and colors.  To each his own


----------



## soccersc

happy9 said:


> winning is over rated and does nothing to build character.  Ask Michael Jordan.


Not sure I agree there...winning might not be everything, but we all play to win, and what makes us better...losing.  Losing builds character and there isn't one person out there that hasn't lost.  Some are okay with losing and others absolutely despise it, so they work harder and are more determined not to lose, they want to be the best.  So winning is what we all strive for, not sure how that doesn't build character? Because losing is going to come in the process, and for those that want to win, they will continue to put in the work.


----------



## EOTL

happy9 said:


> winning is over rated and does nothing to build character.  Ask Michael Jordan.


Michael Jordan is a horrible role model and person. If you are looking to Michael Jordan as an example of someone with character, well, it’s no wonder you like marmalade-a-lago so much as you do.


----------



## happy9

EOTL said:


> Michael Jordan is a horrible role model and person. If you are looking to Michael Jordan as an example of someone with character, well, it’s no wonder you like marmalade-a-lago so much as you do.


----------



## happy9

soccersc said:


> Not sure I agree there...winning might not be everything, but we all play to win, and what makes us better...losing.  Losing builds character and there isn't one person out there that hasn't lost.  Some are okay with losing and others absolutely despise it, so they work harder and are more determined not to lose, they want to be the best.  So winning is what we all strive for, not sure how that doesn't build character? Because losing is going to come in the process, and for those that want to win, they will continue to put in the work.


Over analysis, I was being subtle to the fact that winning isn't everything. Most "winners" have done a lot of losing.  Winning is the goal of sports, but you don't always win.


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> I think it shouldnt be the end all, but it should be the goal at the end.  Winning for many here is getting a deal and it stops there.  I saw it for the last three years.  I get it and that is why ECNL is awesome.  I will only say that having winning attitude is what makes a true goat what to win the game, the tournament, the playoffs and the championship.  We all come in different sizes, shapes and colors.  To each his own


to each his own indeed.


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> Over analysis, I was being subtle to the fact that winning isn't everything. Most "winners" have done a lot of losing.  Winning is the goal of sports, but you don't always win.


Happy, this is not going well for you.  Drop it, trust me


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> Happy, this is not going well for you.  Drop it, trust me


fake news


----------



## FernandoFromNationalCity

Surf Response to Cease & Desist Order
					

San Diego County officials taped a Cease & Desist order to our front door this morning. This is our response which we sent earlier today:   February 17, 2021 Gary, Soly, Brent, Vince and Conor - We hope this finds you well.  We realize and respect that you have a job to do and we are empathetic to




					www.surfsoccer.com


----------



## happy9

EOTL said:


> Michael Jordan is a horrible role model and person. If you are looking to Michael Jordan as an example of someone with character, well, it’s no wonder you like marmalade-a-lago so much as you do.


Thinking about it more, why are you spewing such hate against a successful black man during black history month?  As a somewhat successful black man, I find it a tad offensive.


----------



## Kicker4Life

soccersc said:


> Not sure I agree there...winning might not be everything, but we all play to win, and what makes us better...losing.  Losing builds character and there isn't one person out there that hasn't lost.  Some are okay with losing and others absolutely despise it, so they work harder and are more determined not to lose, they want to be the best.  So winning is what we all strive for, not sure how that doesn't build character? Because losing is going to come in the process, and for those that want to win, they will continue to put in the work.


I believe that’s the point being made.


----------



## Goforgoal

On side note, is it just me or does the new(ish?) ECNL logo leave a lot to be desired? I wouldn't call the previous logo great but I liked it and I think a refresh rather than a total overhaul would have been fine. I can only assume that with the addition of Boys ECNL, they wanted to move to one branding image, but I feel like they really missed the mark with both the design and the color.


----------



## crush

happy9 said:


> Thinking about it more, why are you spewing such hate against a successful black man during black history month?  As a somewhat successful black man, I find it a tad offensive.


100% agree


----------



## crush

Goforgoal said:


> On side note, is it just me or does the new(ish?) ECNL logo leave a lot to be desired? I wouldn't call the previous logo great but I liked it and I think a refresh rather than a total overhaul would have been fine. I can only assume that with the addition of Boys ECNL, they wanted to move to one branding image, but I feel like they really missed the mark with both the design and the color.


100% agree.  Logo needs serious change.  I'm shocked.  I have some ideas but no likes my ideas in youth soccer.


----------



## Surf Zombie

Goforgoal said:


> On side note, is it just me or does the new(ish?) ECNL logo leave a lot to be desired? I wouldn't call the previous logo great but I liked it and I think a refresh rather than a total overhaul would have been fine. I can only assume that with the addition of Boys ECNL, they wanted to move to one branding image, but I feel like they really missed the mark with both the design and the color.


Yeah, I’m still trying to figure out what it is.


----------



## Zeke

Surf Zombie said:


> Yeah, I’m still trying to figure out what it is.


This is why you should play SCNL.  The logo is much better.   You look at the logo, and it makes you think of soccer.



The ECNL logo makes me think of sheet metal manufacturing.  You can even see the bottom sheet being bent into a stronger shape.  Maybe one of those interlocking roofing panels...


----------



## crush

Zeke said:


> This is why you should play SCNL.  The logo is much better.   You look at the logo, and it makes you think of soccer.
> 
> View attachment 10172
> 
> The ECNL logo makes me think of sheet metal manufacturing.  You can even see the bottom sheet being bent into a stronger shape.  Maybe one of those interlocking roofing panels...
> 
> View attachment 10174


I'm not a fan of the ball in new SCNL logo.  The left side in blue looks good and I like the player.  I hate the grey area.  ECNL logo, redo is in order.  Is that a leg kicking a ball or a large index finger flicking something?  You're now the #1 league in the country, logo needs to go.  I offer free critique on logos and branding.  Tag lines?  No problem.  I want to know how the approval process goes like at ECNL HQ.  Does a group all vote?


----------



## happy9

crush said:


> I'm not a fan of the ball in new SCNL logo.  The left side in blue looks good and I like the player.  I hate the grey area.  ECNL logo, redo is in order.  Is that a leg kicking a ball or a large index finger flicking something?  You're now the #1 league in the country, logo needs to go.  I offer free critique on logos and branding.  Tag lines?  No problem.  I want to know how the approval process goes like at ECNL HQ.  Does a group all vote?


We certainly have first world problems..


----------



## Surf Zombie

ECNL GIRLS CONTINUES TO INNOVATE WITH LAUNCH OF REGIONAL LEAGUE NATIONAL EVENTS
					

RICHMOND, VA (February 24, 2021) – ECNL Girls is excited to launch the first-ever national event series for the ECNL Girls Regional League for the 2021-22 season, giving more players access to the top collegiate recruiting platform in the country and fulfilling its mission to be the best youth...




					www.theecnl.com


----------



## LASTMAN14

Flick said:


> Speaking from experience, I’ll take a slow traffic jammed drive down the coast for 2-4 hours with a stop at Pizza Port in Solana Beach on the return trip over a monotonous 4-5 hour trip between Houston and Dallas on I-45 or 7 hour trip to OKC from Houston with only Buckees to stop and get some jerky.


I know you would! How’d I miss this post. You did forget to mention the 4 pack of IPA’s from Pizza Port.


----------



## LASTMAN14

GT45 said:


> They are a below average club. It is not a snub. It is just reality. They would water down ECNL.


Apologizes in advance for missing this post. However, before I respond are you a Blues or Slammers parent.


----------



## GT45

Blues, but I would say that regardless of what club I am with. The DA standings speak for themselves. Then you look at all of the top players that left the club after DA folded and they are even weaker. I am just stating this by standings. Nothing more. West Coast was a very solid club a handful of years ago. In my opinion they made a mistake in rebranding to OC Surf. Then they wisely decided to return to their original West Coast brand. Unfortunately for them, DA folded at the same time. It was a bad combination.


----------



## Desert Hound

LASTMAN14 said:


> You did forget to mention the 4 pack of IPA’s from Pizza Port.


After my DD started playing in ECNL and DA I discovered Pizza Port. Kind of like the place. Maybe I shouldn't say I discovered it. Others parents said lets meet up at one of their locations.


----------



## baller

Desert Hound said:


> After my DD started playing in ECNL and DA I discovered Pizza Port. Kind of like the place. Maybe I shouldn't say I discovered it. Others parents said lets meet up at one of their locations.


San Diego is a mecca for the beer nerd.  Check out Pure Project and Burgeon.  Or just wander around Mira Mesa.


----------



## Goforgoal

Desert Hound said:


> After my DD started playing in ECNL and DA I discovered Pizza Port. Kind of like the place. Maybe I shouldn't say I discovered it. Others parents said lets meet up at one of their locations.


It's solid for sure. Good pizza and excellent beer. What more could a frazzled soccer parent ask for? I like the Carlsbad location personally, if only for it being larger and less crowded overall (I'm getting old and get irritated by crowds more frequently these days). Encinitas does have that great beach pizza hovel feel though.


----------



## Footy30

baller said:


> San Diego is a mecca for the beer nerd.  Check out Pure Project and Burgeon.  Or just wander around Mira Mesa.


I agree... hard to pull me out of Belching Beaver in Oceanside


----------



## Desert Hound

baller said:


> San Diego is a mecca for the beer nerd.  Check out Pure Project and Burgeon.  Or just wander around Mira Mesa.


I will put those on my list.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Desert Hound said:


> I will put those on my list.


Definitely add Belching Beaver!


----------



## azsnowrider

Footy30 said:


> I agree... hard to pull me out of Belching Beaver in Oceanside





Kicker4Life said:


> Definitely add Belching Beaver!


You both had me at Belching Beaver, that's some great stuff. I drive across town to buy it here locally. Unless I am in SD of course...


----------



## Kicker4Life

azsnowrider said:


> You both had me at Belching Beaver, that's some great stuff. I drive across town to buy it here locally. Unless I am in SD of course...


Phantom Bride!!!


----------



## ToonArmy

You guys are making me thirsty


----------



## surfertwins

baller said:


> San Diego is a mecca for the beer nerd.  Check out Pure Project and Burgeon.  Or just wander around Mira Mesa.


Add Harland and Modern Times to the list plus when looking for lunch near Oceanside hit up Board & brew, good sandwiches and beer selection.


----------



## Kicker4Life

surfertwins said:


> Add Harland and Modern Times to the list plus when looking for lunch near Oceanside hit up Board & brew, good sandwiches and beer selection.


Jay’s on CV drive is epic Beach Italian food!!


----------



## LASTMAN14

ToonArmy said:


> You guys are making me thirsty


And, hungry.


----------



## Kicker4Life

LASTMAN14 said:


> And, hungry.


My buddy is serving his famous smoked samiches at 3 Weavers on Sunday!!!!


----------



## LASTMAN14

Kicker4Life said:


> My buddy is serving his famous smoked samiches at 3 Weavers on Sunday!!!!


If I can find the time I will drop by there. Yum.


----------



## happy9

Kicker4Life said:


> Jay’s on CV drive is epic Beach Italian food!!


Just stop - now I'm advocating for more CA travel.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life

happy9 said:


> Just stop - now I'm advocating for more CA travel.


On same day trips from North OC to San Diego for games, I have to stop at Avila's El Ranchito in San Clemente!  They have a carne asada and egg plate! yum! 









						AVILA'S EL RANCHITO, San Clemente - 204 Avenida Del Mar - Menu, Prices & Restaurant Reviews - Tripadvisor
					

Avila's El Ranchito, San Clemente: See 253 unbiased reviews of Avila's El Ranchito, rated 4 of 5 on Tripadvisor and ranked #15 of 216 restaurants in San Clemente.




					www.tripadvisor.com


----------



## Surf Zombie

ECNL GIRLS WELCOMES ARLINGTON SOCCER FOR 2021-22 SEASON
					

RICHMOND, VA (February 26, 2021) – The ECNL Girls is thrilled to announce Arlington Soccer Association will join the country’s top youth female league for the 2021-22 season. Bringing Arlington Soccer into the league continues to bolster the talent and fierce competition of the Mid-Atlantic...




					www.ecnlgirls.com


----------



## MMMM

Surf Zombie said:


> ECNL GIRLS WELCOMES ARLINGTON SOCCER FOR 2021-22 SEASON
> 
> 
> RICHMOND, VA (February 26, 2021) – The ECNL Girls is thrilled to announce Arlington Soccer Association will join the country’s top youth female league for the 2021-22 season. Bringing Arlington Soccer into the league continues to bolster the talent and fierce competition of the Mid-Atlantic...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ecnlgirls.com


That’s a surprise. I thought they’d bring FC Virginia in before they’d bring in another DC-area club.


----------



## LASTMAN14

EOTL'S MORNING. Now we know why...


----------



## Technician72

LASTMAN14 said:


> EOTL'S MORNING. Now we know why...


This made my Friday, that reminded me of my dad watching futbol from Mexico. I’m afraid that if my girls record me today I’m just as bad as he was.


----------



## supercell

MMMM said:


> That’s a surprise. I thought they’d bring FC Virginia in before they’d bring in another DC-area club.


They must be adamant that all new clubs have a boys side involved as well. FCV's boys side is not nearly as strong as the girls. It's either that, or they really have a problem with the leadership.


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## Surf Zombie

Thought this was interesting. GA club heading straight to ECNL-R. I’m thinking this is going to be what the league offers as a “pathway” for most new clubs, like with Beach & Legends. 









						WEST SIDE ALLIANCE JOINS ECNL GIRLS REGIONAL LEAGUE FOR 2021-22 SEASON
					

RICHMOND, VA (March 4, 2021) – The ECNL Girls is thrilled to announce that West Side Alliance will join the ECNL Girls Regional League - Texas for the 2021-22 season with their top girls teams. By continually adding top-level clubs and competition to the ECNL Regional Leagues, the league...




					www.ecnlgirls.com


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## paytoplay

SoccerFan4Life said:


> On same day trips from North OC to San Diego for games, I have to stop at Avila's El Ranchito in San Clemente!  They have a carne asada and egg plate! yum!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AVILA'S EL RANCHITO, San Clemente - 204 Avenida Del Mar - Menu, Prices & Restaurant Reviews - Tripadvisor
> 
> 
> Avila's El Ranchito, San Clemente: See 253 unbiased reviews of Avila's El Ranchito, rated 4 of 5 on Tripadvisor and ranked #15 of 216 restaurants in San Clemente.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tripadvisor.com


If your not going to exit Ortega Hwy and head west to El Campeon, or east to Sol Agave, just keep driving all the way through south OC.


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## STX

supercell said:


> They must be adamant that all new clubs have a boys side involved as well. FCV's boys side is not nearly as strong as the girls. It's either that, or they really have a problem with the leadership.


Mostly, it's as simple as Louden has a problem with FCV training literally across the street.  Louden hopes if their rival club remains stuck in GA, they will eventually be able to pick off their top players. 
And Louden has the political clout to make it happen, at least so far.  Follow the $$$.


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## Surf Zombie

The expansion front has been pretty quiet. I’m guessing things should be finalized this month one way of another. Tryouts for next year (at least up in the northeast) are only 5-6 weeks away.


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## GeekKid

Surf Zombie said:


> The expansion front has been pretty quiet. I’m guessing things should be finalized this month one way of another. Tryouts for next year (at least up in the northeast) are only 5-6 weeks away.


Zombie, that's crazy.  Tryouts before playoffs even start?  What a racket!!!


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## crush

GeekKid said:


> Zombie, that's crazy.  Tryouts before playoffs even start?  What a racket!!!


Yup, way before May 31st like them old days. If you leave, no playoffs for you.  I was always honest when we committed elsewhere before season is over. Big mistake for some.  For me, never!!  Good Karma is always on the side of honesty. Keeping mouth shut about next year is a smart move, moo!


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## Surf Zombie

GeekKid said:


> Zombie, that's crazy.  Tryouts before playoffs even start?  What a racket!!!


Yeah, it's a pretty crazy dynamic.  It's going to be an interesting dynamic if there are kids who aren't brought back and new kids inbound from GA or wherever.


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## Abraham Parnasis

Surf Zombie said:


> Yeah, it's a pretty crazy dynamic.  It's going to be an interesting dynamic if there are kids who aren't brought back and new kids inbound from GA or wherever.


This may have already been posted, but any talk of relegation for the historically lowest-performing ECNL clubs?  Keeping up with the exclusivity of ECNL and all-clubs that consistently underperform at all age groups- boys and girls sides.  I thought this was "Elite Club National League".   Without gathering data, I can think of a few off the top of my head that would be at risk for relegation.


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## Carlsbad7

Abraham Parnasis said:


> This may have already been posted, but any talk of relegation for the historically lowest-performing ECNL clubs?  Keeping up with the exclusivity of ECNL and all-clubs that consistently underperform at all age groups- boys and girls sides.  I thought this was "Elite Club National League".   Without gathering data, I can think of a few off the top of my head that would be at risk for relegation.


Sounds like you're positioning that current ECNL teams should regulate existing ECNL teams so other better Non-ECNL can take their place.


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## Carlsbad7

Carlsbad7 said:


> Sounds like you're positioning that current ECNL teams should regulate existing ECNL teams so other better Non-ECNL can take their place.


This won't happen for a while because the top teams need a couple of guaranteed wins to make ECNL look viable. Also as long as ECNL keeps the number of accepted Clubs low in a specific area (and is perceived at the top level of play) over time even the bottom of the barrel will get better. What parents might not understand is that there can be deep seated reasons ABC club isn't allowed into XYZ league. Logically level of play should be the only determiner of who gets into the top level of play. Unfortunately this often isn't reality.


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## Abraham Parnasis

Well is ECNL "elite" or is it just based on nonverbal contracts like handshakes and winks?  I have had kids play in DA, ECNL, GA, EGSL (a ways back...) and I have seen it all.  I do think that there are very competitive clubs that deserve a shot at ECNL when there are clubs that underperform throughout all age groups within ECNL in SoCal.


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## Carlsbad7

Abraham Parnasis said:


> Well is ECNL "elite" or is it just based on nonverbal contracts like handshakes and winks?  I have had kids play in DA, ECNL, GA, EGSL (a ways back...) and I have seen it all.  I do think that there are very competitive clubs that deserve a shot at ECNL when there are clubs that underperform throughout all age groups within ECNL in SoCal.


ECNL is both... "Elite" and "nonverbal contracts like handshakes and winks". Welcome to the real world


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## Surf Zombie

Carlsbad7 said:


> Logically level of play should be the only determiner of who gets into the top level of play. Unfortunately this often isn't reality.


I think in certain circumstances club ownership is also a legitimate concern.  If the club owner is a known problem child, why would they ever want to bring that club into the fold?


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## crush

Abraham Parnasis said:


> Well is ECNL "elite" or is it just based on nonverbal contracts like handshakes and winks?  I have had kids play in DA, ECNL, GA, EGSL (a ways back...) and I have seen it all.  I do think that there are very competitive clubs that deserve a shot at ECNL when there are clubs that underperform throughout all age groups within ECNL in SoCal.


Not only are we club hoppers, we will now be labeled "league hoppers" if we dare leave a league.  We played Deza Force team in that EGSL league.  That was pre-ecnl.  I never did GA though or GAL and almost got lied to for the 100th time and would have been stuck with DPL.  Can we all agree to just call all the kids soccer players.


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## crush

Surf Zombie said:


> I think in certain circumstances club ownership is also a legitimate concern.  If the club owner is a known problem child, why would they ever want to bring that club into the fold?


So many problem Childs in this freaking sport.  I swear I tried to leave years ago but my dd loves to freaking compete.  Gotta chase them medals.


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## futboldad1

Abraham Parnasis said:


> This may have already been posted, but any talk of relegation for the historically lowest-performing ECNL clubs?  Keeping up with the exclusivity of ECNL and all-clubs that consistently underperform at all age groups- boys and girls sides.  I thought this was "Elite Club National League".   Without gathering data, I can think of a few off the top of my head that would be at risk for relegation.


When the stats are readily available, don't be so lazy to not research them........I even posted the 2019-20 standings across girls DA and ECNL......this year just look across the age groups of ECNL to get an early idea.........

people whining on here about their non Ecnl club being better......it's just not true......Surf and Real deserved the entry we got this year and this upcoming season the other two most deserving clubs legends and beach got in too....... based on the stats nobody else from DA made a case expect Galaxy South Bay but they dissolved and the kids went to various ECNL clubs.......


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## happy9

futboldad1 said:


> When the stats are readily available, don't be so lazy to not research them........I even posted the 2019-20 standings across girls DA and ECNL......this year just look across the age groups of ECNL to get an early idea.........
> 
> *Surf and Real deserved the entry we got this year and this upcoming season* the other two most deserving clubs legends and beach got in too....... based on the stats nobody else from DA made a case expect Galaxy South Bay but they dissolved and the kids went to various ECNL clubs.......


I wonder who was doing the favor to who and who needed who.


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## Abraham Parnasis

futboldad1 said:


> When the stats are readily available, don't be so lazy to not research them........I even posted the 2019-20 standings across girls DA and ECNL......this year just look across the age groups of ECNL to get an early idea.........
> 
> people whining on here about their non Ecnl club being better......it's just not true......Surf and Real deserved the entry we got this year and this upcoming season the other two most deserving clubs legends and beach got in too....... based on the stats nobody else from DA made a case expect Galaxy South Bay but they dissolved and the kids went to various ECNL clubs.......


Some of us have careers that keep us extremely busy and researching soccer stats? Yes, I know they are buried in here somewhere.  Maybe someone hard-working with more time can repost last year's.  This year's stats will naturally be available as our covid season progresses.

My point is that there are clubs in ECNL that not only don't win games across all ages and gender but do not develop players.  Those clubs should be held accountable within ECNL.  That is, contrary to what was posted above, real life.  No W's, No ECNL.  Just like EPL... Otherwise, let's just slap a patch on every jersey and call everyone elite.


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## futboldad1

Abraham Parnasis said:


> Some of us have careers that keep us extremely busy and researching soccer stats? Yes, I know they are buried in here somewhere.  Maybe someone hard-working with more time can repost last year's.  This year's stats will naturally be available as our covid season progresses.
> 
> My point is that there are clubs in ECNL that not only don't win games across all ages and gender but do not develop players.  Those clubs should be held accountable within ECNL.  That is, contrary to what was posted above, real life.  No W's, No ECNL.  Just like EPL... Otherwise, let's just slap a patch on every jersey and call everyone elite.


"extremely busy" but posting multiple times in a day on a kid's soccer forum? Don't blow a gasket I'm just messing wit you but you got to admit you walked into that one ......here is the statistics from most recent season.....I do not have this current season but just go to ECNL app or girls site and you can look across age groups to get a general idea after 5 or 6 games.......



GDA AND ECNL 2020 Standings Per Club by PPGGDA Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU14U15U16U17U18/U19San Diego Surf2.421441Legends417525LA Galaxy536178Real So Cal5.2482102Beach Futbol Club6.6132639SC Blues6.6649113Albion SC7.25510511LA Galaxy San Diego8.210133114Pateadores9.21212787SC del Sol9.211312614LA Surf SC9.49911126Utah Royals FC - Arizona9.814118133OC Surf Soccer10.671413910Albion SC Las Vegas11.6810141412ECNL Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU13U14U15U16U17U18U18 CompLAFC Slammers2.42111228So Cal Blues SC3.73684311Slammers FC4.663103163LA Breakers FC6.35868494Heat FC6.3144710117Strikers FC6.6117357310Arizona Arsenal SC7.1911126642Phoenix Rising FC7.379221212No teamRebels SC7.6821110589Eagles SC7.64105121156Arsenal FC8.9125999711DMCV Sharks9.010127118105


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## futboldad1

B.t.w.......Above chart is after 13 or 14 games.....roughly 60% of the season played before Covid virus halted it............


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## Abraham Parnasis

futboldad1 said:


> "extremely busy" but posting multiple times in a day on a kid's soccer forum? Don't blow a gasket I'm just messing wit you but you got to admit you walked into that one ......here is the statistics from most recent season.....I do not have this current season but just go to ECNL app or girls site and you can look across age groups to get a general idea after 5 or 6 games.......
> 
> 
> 
> GDA AND ECNL 2020 Standings Per Club by PPGGDA Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU14U15U16U17U18/U19San Diego Surf2.421441Legends417525LA Galaxy536178Real So Cal5.2482102Beach Futbol Club6.6132639SC Blues6.6649113Albion SC7.25510511LA Galaxy San Diego8.210133114Pateadores9.21212787SC del Sol9.211312614LA Surf SC9.49911126Utah Royals FC - Arizona9.814118133OC Surf Soccer10.671413910Albion SC Las Vegas11.6810141412ECNL Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU13U14U15U16U17U18U18 CompLAFC Slammers2.42111228So Cal Blues SC3.73684311Slammers FC4.663103163LA Breakers FC6.35868494Heat FC6.3144710117Strikers FC6.6117357310Arizona Arsenal SC7.1911126642Phoenix Rising FC7.379221212No teamRebels SC7.6821110589Eagles SC7.64105121156Arsenal FC8.9125999711DMCV Sharks9.010127118105


No gaskets destroyed.  Don't worry I wouldn't allow the forum to do that.. Too many other things in life that prove to be more important.

Thank you for posting this though... Exactly what I was looking for.


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## Desert Hound

futboldad1 said:


> "extremely busy" but posting multiple times in a day on a kid's soccer forum? Don't blow a gasket I'm just messing wit you but you got to admit you walked into that one ......here is the statistics from most recent season.....I do not have this current season but just go to ECNL app or girls site and you can look across age groups to get a general idea after 5 or 6 games.......
> 
> 
> 
> GDA AND ECNL 2020 Standings Per Club by PPGGDA Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU14U15U16U17U18/U19San Diego Surf2.421441Legends417525LA Galaxy536178Real So Cal5.2482102Beach Futbol Club6.6132639SC Blues6.6649113Albion SC7.25510511LA Galaxy San Diego8.210133114Pateadores9.21212787SC del Sol9.211312614LA Surf SC9.49911126Utah Royals FC - Arizona9.814118133OC Surf Soccer10.671413910Albion SC Las Vegas11.6810141412ECNL Current Standings (Based on PPG)AVG StandingsU13U14U15U16U17U18U18 CompLAFC Slammers2.42111228So Cal Blues SC3.73684311Slammers FC4.663103163LA Breakers FC6.35868494Heat FC6.3144710117Strikers FC6.6117357310Arizona Arsenal SC7.1911126642Phoenix Rising FC7.379221212No teamRebels SC7.6821110589Eagles SC7.64105121156Arsenal FC8.9125999711DMCV Sharks9.010127118105


And take a look at Royals in the final year of DA. Not terribly good. 

The league goes belly up and then they end up going GA. 

In GA they absolutely ROLL through everyone. Zero competition for them. That right there should tell one the state of GA in the SW vs ECNL. 

Legends and Beach were good additions to ECNL for this coming year.


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## Surf Zombie

ECNL GIRLS INTRODUCES THREE NEW CLUBS FOR 2021-22 SEASON
					

RICHMOND, VA (March 16, 2021) – The ECNL Girls is excited to announce the addition of Cleveland Force (OH), Kings Hammer (KY), and Midwest United FC (MI) for the upcoming 2021-22 season. The addition of Cleveland Force and Kings Hammer into the Ohio Valley Conference, and Midwest United into the...




					www.ecnlgirls.com
				




3 clubs from MI, OH & KY.


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## Gosocal

Desert Hound said:


> And take a look at Royals in the final year of DA. Not terribly good.
> 
> The league goes belly up and then they end up going GA.
> 
> In GA they absolutely ROLL through everyone. Zero competition for them. That right there should tell one the state of GA in the SW vs ECNL.
> 
> Legends and Beach were good additions to ECNL for this coming year.


In fairness to non AZ clubs, the results will be disjointed as all CA clubs were shut out of league play  including scrimmages since March 2020 due to restrictions while AZ clubs were scrimmaging into fall with more relaxed restrictions.  Many CA clubs first GA matches in October were their first full contact anything (training or games) with some families opting out of AZ travel due to Covid concerns.  AZ clubs likely played 8-10 more formal/informal matches/scrimmages and trained more regularly (CA (non contact) trained dependent on local restrictions which were wildly inconsistent). That’s a MASSIVE head start and disadvantage, especially in terms of fitness. Best analogy is MLS clubs playing CONCACAF Champions League in February (their preseason) while Liga MX clubs have played half a season. It just won’t be competitive year in year out and the domination of AZ clubs illustrate that.  I say 2020/2021 “season” is a wash and just not an accurate representation of the competitive landscape until you see a normal season though I believe ecnl  is clearly the top league but  believe ga is not not in the dire competitive state that is inferred.


----------



## Abraham Parnasis

Desert Hound said:


> And take a look at Royals in the final year of DA. Not terribly good.
> 
> The league goes belly up and then they end up going GA.
> 
> In GA they absolutely ROLL through everyone. Zero competition for them. That right there should tell one the state of GA in the SW vs ECNL.
> 
> Legends and Beach were good additions to ECNL for this coming year.


Royals had a total overhaul at multiple age groups.  Complete equipment change.  New players all the way around.  Very strong competition now.


----------



## crush

Gosocal said:


> In fairness to non AZ clubs, the results will be disjointed as *all CA clubs were shut out* of league play  *including scrimmages since March 2020 *due to restrictions while AZ clubs were scrimmaging into fall with more relaxed restrictions.  Many CA clubs first GA matches in October were their first full contact anything (training or games) with some families opting out of AZ travel due to Covid concerns.  AZ clubs likely played 8-10 more formal/informal matches/scrimmages and trained more regularly (CA (non contact) trained dependent on local restrictions which were wildly inconsistent). That’s a MASSIVE head start and disadvantage, especially in terms of fitness. Best analogy is MLS clubs playing CONCACAF Champions League in February (their preseason) while Liga MX clubs have played half a season. It just won’t be competitive year in year out and the domination of AZ clubs illustrate that.  I say 2020/2021 “season” is a wash and just not an accurate representation of the competitive landscape until you see a normal season though I believe ecnl  is clearly the top league but  believe ga is not not in the dire competitive state that is inferred.


Not all clubs Go socal, but most were shut out.  It has been so unfair for most of the older girls who were or are still trying to get college coach to take a peek at their game.  They cant even see you face to face until June now.


----------



## Jamisfoes

Can someone comment on pre-ECNL league vs socal flight 1? Which one has better players / higher competition?


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## rainbow_unicorn

Jamisfoes said:


> Can someone comment on pre-ECNL league vs socal flight 1? Which one has better players / higher competition?


There is no pre-ECNL league for girls in So Cal.  Some clubs may slap a "pre-ECNL" label on some teams but it's just a label.  Most 2011 teams that will start ECNL in 2023/24 season are currently finishing up league play in SOCAL flight 1 2011 or flight 2 2010 (11 v 11).


----------



## Jamisfoes

rainbow_unicorn said:


> There is no pre-ECNL league for girls in So Cal.  Some clubs may slap a "pre-ECNL" label on some teams but it's just a label.  Most 2011 teams that will start ECNL in 2023/24 season are currently finishing up league play in SOCAL flight 1 2011 or flight 2 2010 (11 v 11).


I see for girls not a pre-ECNL league in socal. What about for boys? I see for 9 yrds, they already have a pre-ECNL league. Wondering if it's worth it getting in on a team there or continue to play in socal league.


----------



## soccerchaffeur

Jamisfoes said:


> I see for girls not a pre-ECNL league in socal. What about for boys? I see for 9 yrds, they already have a pre-ECNL league. Wondering if it's worth it getting in on a team there or continue to play in socal league.


My boys are on a pre-ECNL team, and they face a powerhouse each & every match. No easy ones like we had in flight 1 last season. Now, I'm afraid, we're the easy ones!


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## rainbow_unicorn

Boys ECNL
					

PRE-ECNL Standings




					www.ecnlboys.com


----------

