# Vc Fusion- Coach  attacks a player



## Futbol2dmaxxx (Nov 20, 2022)

As we were leaving my daughters game, the game besides us was intense I believe the home team Vc fusion was losing 3-2 and with in minutes they tied and the match ended. Good game I may add. After the games player from VC Ventura threw a ball to the visiting team knocked him down (words may have been exchange).  Which then a player stepped up to confront vc fusion players ,When I and many other parents see this man run from behind the coaches bench not to stop any further action but to physically toss  this player to the ground.

The coach from the away team ran to stop this coach , to me it looked like he wanted to put he’s hands on other kids. I applaud the coach for getting in between he’s players and this so called man. Who lays their hands on child but pushes this child to the ground. The spectacle he caused. I saw a lady crying am assuming she was the mom of the player on the floor crying. I applied again the coach for not loosing he’s cool and protecting the rest of the kids. 

has anyone heard of this incident that occurred 11/6 in Ventura ? Does any one know who this coach is ? Not sure what league it was but things like that should happen parent should never get on the field or even worse attack a players .


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## Dominic (Nov 20, 2022)

EDITED thread. 
Was anything reported officially?


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Nov 20, 2022)

Dominic said:


> EDITED thread.
> Was anything reported officially?


I did see the coach/team managers report  it to the refs. The mom who I was talking to at the end , offer some water to the child, did mention she would file charges. Hopefully justice is done.  Never have I witness a child be assaulted by adult after game. My daughter was in shock , tears running down her face.


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 20, 2022)

Every time I've seen or heard of a parent/spectator run on the field it was to "protect" their player. Generally they use the excuse of protecting to assault another player or parent/spectator.

Nevermind that the crazy person was pacing back and forth on the sideline + yelling at the refs the entire game.

Please report these kind of situations to the police. Adults assaulting children is never ok + once charges are filed the idiots will stop. (Or theyll go to jail)


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Nov 20, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Every time I've seen or heard of a parent/spectator run on the field it was to "protect" their player. Generally they use the excuse of protecting to assault another player or parent/spectator.
> 
> Nevermind that the crazy person was pacing back and forth on the sideline + yelling at the refs the entire game.
> 
> Please report these kind of situations to the police. Adults assaulting children is never ok + once charges are filed the idiots will stop. (Or theyll go to jail)


You saw it too ?  Hopefully they do find him. Thats not necessary to put theirs hands on child. No excuse , only people to stop anything  going on the field should be coach/ref .


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 20, 2022)

Futbol2dmaxxx said:


> You saw it too ?  Hopefully they do find him. Thats not necessary to put theirs hands on child. No excuse , only people to stop anything  going on the field should be coach/ref .


No I didnt see what happened + wasnt there.

I've seen the same type if situation before with other teams. One time we were on a team with a parent like that. I always positioned myself on the sideline between him and the field just in case anything happened. He still managed to run on the field once but by the time he was close to action the players had already separated.


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Nov 20, 2022)

Dominic said:


> EDITED thread.
> Was anything reported officially?


Ohh I see well it wasn’t the coach it was the owner of Vc fusion. you may want to edit it again. Just looked up he’s name Ranbir Shergill .


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Nov 20, 2022)

Dominic said:


> EDITED thread.
> Was anything reported officially?


I wouldn’t doubt that it was , like I mention Parents of player and coach did talk to the refs after since mr Ranbir ran from the scene.


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## numbernine (Nov 21, 2022)

Witnessed this same person chase down, get in the face of, and harass a referee after a U12 league game. Referee was shaken and said he was going to report the incident.


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Nov 23, 2022)

how is that he still able to be around kids or other teams guy in the circle


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## Penguin (Nov 27, 2022)

I have absolutely no idea what happened, I am not associated in anyway with any of the teams but I read this post on next door and this appears to be the other side of the story. It was posted Nov. 7:

_Parental bad behaviour on the Soccer Field.   I was at my grandsons' soccer game (Club Soccer) yesterday at Kimball park, at the end of the preceeding game (10-12 year old boys) there was a parental eruption on the field. Several of the parents from the opposing team were marching onto the field screaming at a father of the one of the boys on the home team who had "Put his hands on our kids!". There were about 3-4 mothers and 6-7 fathers, all screaming at the man, calling him a Pig and dropping F bombs. The man did not reply, but tried to leave with his son, who was in tears. I was worried that this man would be accosted in the parking lot.    When the story fleshed out, it seems that a boy on the opposing team had been calling one of the boys "The N word". (This father was East Indian), and the boys were beginning to fight, so this father simply put his "hands on their boys" to break it up.   My take on this is that the opposing team suffered a bit of mob hysteria and lit into this man without knowing the full story.   It made me very sad in general, for the kids to see their parents behave like this, and for the father who stood up.    Anybody else there and witness to this?_


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Nov 28, 2022)

Penguin said:


> I have absolutely no idea what happened, I am not associated in anyway with any of the teams but I read this post on next door and this appears to be the other side of the story. It was posted Nov. 7:
> 
> _Parental bad behaviour on the Soccer Field.   I was at my grandsons' soccer game (Club Soccer) yesterday at Kimball park, at the end of the preceeding game (10-12 year old boys) there was a parental eruption on the field. Several of the parents from the opposing team were marching onto the field screaming at a father of the one of the boys on the home team who had "Put his hands on our kids!". There were about 3-4 mothers and 6-7 fathers, all screaming at the man, calling him a Pig and dropping F bombs. The man did not reply, but tried to leave with his son, who was in tears. I was worried that this man would be accosted in the parking lot.    When the story fleshed out, it seems that a boy on the opposing team had been calling one of the boys "The N word". (This father was East Indian), and the boys were beginning to fight, so this father simply put his "hands on their boys" to break it up.   My take on this is that the opposing team suffered a bit of mob hysteria and lit into this man without knowing the full story.   It made me very sad in general, for the kids to see their parents behave like this, and for the father who stood up.    Anybody else there and witness to this?_


Where can we find this article ? Or is this another forum.


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## Grace T. (Nov 29, 2022)

Penguin said:


> I have absolutely no idea what happened, I am not associated in anyway with any of the teams but I read this post on next door and this appears to be the other side of the story. It was posted Nov. 7:
> 
> _Parental bad behaviour on the Soccer Field.   I was at my grandsons' soccer game (Club Soccer) yesterday at Kimball park, at the end of the preceeding game (10-12 year old boys) there was a parental eruption on the field. Several of the parents from the opposing team were marching onto the field screaming at a father of the one of the boys on the home team who had "Put his hands on our kids!". There were about 3-4 mothers and 6-7 fathers, all screaming at the man, calling him a Pig and dropping F bombs. The man did not reply, but tried to leave with his son, who was in tears. I was worried that this man would be accosted in the parking lot.    When the story fleshed out, it seems that a boy on the opposing team had been calling one of the boys "The N word". (This father was East Indian), and the boys were beginning to fight, so this father simply put his "hands on their boys" to break it up.   My take on this is that the opposing team suffered a bit of mob hysteria and lit into this man without knowing the full story.   It made me very sad in general, for the kids to see their parents behave like this, and for the father who stood up.    Anybody else there and witness to this?_


Same qualifiers (no idea what happened, not associated with any of the teams) but:

1. The N word seems to be an issue in Ventura County (not necessarily with any one club or league).  This is like the sixth or seventh such incident I'm hearing about it, including with Indians and Hispanics being called the N word.  Doesn't mean it's not prevalent elsewhere....it doesn't mean that it actually is or is not happening...just that it's unusual I've heard this out of VC repeatedly including directly from a few players.
2. Sorry, but spectators can't step on the field, and can't put their hands on the kids to breakup fights.  At least when I went through my ref training we were expressly told not to touch the kids.  We may not like the rule, but it's the rule.  The father may have been well intentioned, and the mob may not have been justified in their actions or conduct, but if true, you can't put your hands on someone elses child, especially if you are related to one of the interested parties.  This happened to my kid when he was younger at school....he had been accused of kicking the bus chair of the chaperone's kid and the chaperone turned around to yell at him and grabbed his arm...turns out he wasn't the one kicking the chair and that it was his seat mate....the chaperone yelling at my kid (however incorrectly) to knock it off would have been fine and I understood they were all operating on a lack of sleep from an overnight, but that arm grab got the parent suspended from being on campus from any and all activities.


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## watfly (Nov 29, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> Same qualifiers (no idea what happened, not associated with any of the teams) but:
> 
> 1. The N word seems to be an issue in Ventura County (not necessarily with any one club or league).  This is like the sixth or seventh such incident I'm hearing about it, including with Indians and Hispanics being called the N word.  Doesn't mean it's not prevalent elsewhere....it doesn't mean that it actually is or is not happening...just that it's unusual I've heard this out of VC repeatedly including directly from a few players.
> 2. Sorry, but spectators can't step on the field, and can't put their hands on the kids to breakup fights.  At least when I went through my ref training we were expressly told not to touch the kids.  We may not like the rule, but it's the rule.  The father may have been well intentioned, and the mob may not have been justified in their actions or conduct, but if true, you can't put your hands on someone elses child, especially if you are related to one of the interested parties.  This happened to my kid when he was younger at school....he had been accused of kicking the bus chair of the chaperone's kid and the chaperone turned around to yell at him and grabbed his arm...turns out he wasn't the one kicking the chair and that it was his seat mate....the chaperone yelling at my kid (however incorrectly) to knock it off would have been fine and I understood they were all operating on a lack of sleep from an overnight, but that arm grab got the parent suspended from being on campus from any and all activities.


Unfortunately, I've come to learn that use of the n-word is not uncommon among teen soccer players.  You will never hear it on the sidelines, but ask your kid if he hears it at practice and during games.


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## espola (Nov 29, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> Same qualifiers (no idea what happened, not associated with any of the teams) but:
> 
> 1. The N word seems to be an issue in Ventura County (not necessarily with any one club or league).  This is like the sixth or seventh such incident I'm hearing about it, including with Indians and Hispanics being called the N word.  Doesn't mean it's not prevalent elsewhere....it doesn't mean that it actually is or is not happening...just that it's unusual I've heard this out of VC repeatedly including directly from a few players.
> 2. Sorry, but spectators can't step on the field, and can't put their hands on the kids to breakup fights.  At least when I went through my ref training we were expressly told not to touch the kids.  We may not like the rule, but it's the rule.  The father may have been well intentioned, and the mob may not have been justified in their actions or conduct, but if true, you can't put your hands on someone elses child, especially if you are related to one of the interested parties.  This happened to my kid when he was younger at school....he had been accused of kicking the bus chair of the chaperone's kid and the chaperone turned around to yell at him and grabbed his arm...turns out he wasn't the one kicking the chair and that it was his seat mate....the chaperone yelling at my kid (however incorrectly) to knock it off would have been fine and I understood they were all operating on a lack of sleep from an overnight, but that arm grab got the parent suspended from being on campus from any and all activities.


And that is an indoctrinated referee viewpoint.


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## dad4 (Nov 30, 2022)

espola said:


> And that is an indoctrinated referee viewpoint.


Asking parents to stand aside while their kid gets pounded is wishful thinking.

Pass all the rules you want.  Print them on stone tablets.  It won't do any good.

If the ref and the coaches cannot or will not control the game, why trust them to be able to break up a fight?   You're better off grabbing your own kid and making sure he doesn't add to it.


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 30, 2022)

dad4 said:


> Asking parents to stand aside while their kid gets pounded is wishful thinking.
> 
> Pass all the rules you want.  Print them on stone tablets.  It won't do any good.
> 
> If the ref and the coaches cannot or will not control the game, why trust them to be able to break up a fight?   You're better off grabbing your own kid and making sure he doesn't add to it.


And there you go. This is how crazy parents/spectators justify running on the field + attacking other players.


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## sockma (Nov 30, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> And there you go. This is how crazy parents/spectators justify running on the field + attacking other players.


Are you planning to watch if your kid is getting repeatedly kicked in the head and hope that the referee and coach will be able to stop it before your child gets brain damaged, while you sit close by?   Not every situation is the same.  If the situation warrants protecting your child, you should.  An extreme example: Uvalde shooting comes to mind.


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## Grace T. (Nov 30, 2022)

sockma said:


> Are you planning to watch if your kid is getting repeatedly kicked in the head and hope that the referee and coach will be able to stop it before your child gets brain damaged, while you sit close by?   Not every situation is the same.  If the situation warrants protecting your child, you should.  An extreme example: Uvalde shooting comes to mind.


I think this is good advice but note that there's a price to be paid and a risk to be taken.  The risks include starting a melee, since the other parents/coaches will feel they need to get involved to protect theirs, and it's really hard to make out a self-defense claim on the use of force against a child...anything more excessive to the situation and you can be very quickly guilty of battery and a whole host of other charges since you laid a hand a minor.

My kid was actually in this situation once against a much bigger player....he was almost a black belt at the time, however, and more than carried his own.  Refs did what they should (beeped and put themselves between when there's daylight).  Wish the teammates had done more to separate but that comes with risks too.  They both paid the price under no tolerance and got suspended, the aggressor more.  If any parent had intervened it would have been a melee.

I do point out that under the no tolerance rules in many leagues, if you fight back and defend yourself, it doesn't matter if you weren't the aggressor but you will be suspended (in most higher leagues for the entire year) automatically.  The assumption in the current rules is that you will sit back and take your beating, the refs should intervene but can't touch anyone, the parents shouldn't do anything.  You gotta do what you gotta do but it will come at a price.


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## espola (Nov 30, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> I think this is good advice but note that there's a price to be paid and a risk to be taken.  The risks include starting a melee, since the other parents/coaches will feel they need to get involved to protect theirs, and it's really hard to make out a self-defense claim on the use of force against a child...anything more excessive to the situation and you can be very quickly guilty of battery and a whole host of other charges since you laid a hand a minor.
> 
> My kid was actually in this situation once against a much bigger player....he was almost a black belt at the time, however, and more than carried his own.  Refs did what they should (beeped and put themselves between when there's daylight).  Wish the teammates had done more to separate but that comes with risks too.  They both paid the price under no tolerance and got suspended, the aggressor more.  If any parent had intervened it would have been a melee.
> 
> I do point out that under the no tolerance rules in many leagues, if you fight back and defend yourself, it doesn't matter if you weren't the aggressor but you will be suspended (in most higher leagues for the entire year) automatically.  The assumption in the current rules is that you will sit back and take your beating, the refs should intervene but can't touch anyone, the parents shouldn't do anything.  You gotta do what you gotta do but it will come at a price.


You passed the referee test but failed the parenting test.


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## Grace T. (Nov 30, 2022)

espola said:


> You passed the referee test but failed the parenting test.


Not my laws, not my rules.
It’s the same at most public schools too: you are expected to take the beating from your bully and if you fight back you can be punished too. If you intervene to help someone you can be treated as an assailant. Welcome to the world of zero tolerance.


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## pewpew (Dec 1, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> Not my laws, not my rules.
> It’s the same at most public schools too: you are expected to take the beating from your bully and if you fight back you can be punished too. If you intervene to help someone you can be treated as an assailant. Welcome to the world of zero tolerance.


I don't EVER expect my kids to sit back and take a beating and they know this. They know that as long as they don't start trouble it's fine and we've got their back 100%. But they also know they have a green light to defend/and finish it. That's why they all study martial arts. We'll deal with the repercussions after. In our world zero tolerance means we have zero tolerance for someone who wants to start something. FAFO.


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## Carlsbad7 (Dec 1, 2022)

Funny how commenters have twisted this thread from being appalled that a coach/spectator would run on the field + attack a player to giving reasons that it's ok to run on the field and providing approval for some kind of karate chop if warranted.

The net is that any adult that runs on the field + attacks a player should be charged criminally with assault against a child.

Sounds like the coach that ran on the field + attacked a player will likely get away with it. I'm also going to bet that he'll do it again.


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## MacDre (Dec 1, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Funny how commenters have twisted this thread from being appalled that a coach/spectator would run on the field + attack a player to giving reasons that it's ok to run on the field and providing approval for some kind of karate chop if warranted.
> 
> The net is that any adult that runs on the field + attacks a player should be charged criminally with assault against a child.
> 
> Sounds like the coach that ran on the field + attacked a player will likely get away with it. I'm also going to bet that he'll do it again.


Even if charged, there are valid legal defenses under the facts laid out in this thread.

How about defense of others?








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## Grace T. (Dec 1, 2022)

MacDre said:


> Even if charged, there are valid legal defenses under the facts laid out in this thread.
> 
> How about defense of others?
> 
> ...


Difficult if a minor is involved. First you step into the shoes of the minor you are defending…if they instigated even verbally and even if you didn’t hear the verbal exchange you are stuck with those facts (eg you are assisting an assailant that started it but you didn’t see the first punch).  Second the response has to be proportional which is difficult if the adult is bigger physically. Third there are other charges that could be tacked on based on the fact the person is a minor. Fourth if another adult gets involved to defend theirs you run the risk of the bar brawl principle being invoked and everyone charged with disorderly. Yes Depends on the fact pattern but it’s not a silver bullet.


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## Carlsbad7 (Dec 1, 2022)

MacDre said:


> Even if charged, there are valid legal defenses under the facts laid out in this thread.
> 
> How about defense of others?
> 
> ...


Maybe that would work. I dont really care.

Reality is that the coach would have to spend $$$ defending their actions and more importantly they would have a prior starting that they attack kids. Even the most braindead dorks in the world will think twice about rushing the field when serious consequences are involved.


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## MacDre (Dec 1, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> Difficult if a minor is involved. First you step into the shoes of the minor you are defending…if they instigated even verbally and even if you didn’t hear the verbal exchange you are stuck with those facts (eg you are assisting an assailant that started it but you didn’t see the first punch).  Second the response has to be proportional which is difficult if the adult is bigger physically. Third there are other charges that could be tacked on based on the fact the person is a minor. Fourth if another adult gets involved to defend theirs you run the risk of the bar brawl principle being invoked and everyone charged with disorderly. Yes Depends on the fact pattern but it’s not a silver bullet.


I don’t think it matters who instigated the situation. If a parents kid is getting mollywopped and they intervene proportionately to the situation, they should have a valid legal defense under the law.  

The criminal standard is beyond reasonable doubt…are you thinking of a civil burden like preponderance?  Nothing is a silver bullet under the law!


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## Grace T. (Dec 1, 2022)

MacDre said:


> I don’t think it matters who instigated the situation. If a parents kid is getting mollywopped and they intervene proportionately to the situation, they should have a valid legal defense under the law.
> 
> The criminal standard is beyond reasonable doubt…are you thinking of a civil burden like preponderance?  Nothing is a silver bullet under the law!


Yes it does matter.  It's not dispositive but if you are assisting the aggressor against someone who is exercising self-defense, you no longer have a defense of others claim...those fall within a line of cases/circumstances known as "imperfect self-defense".  You also know as well that the situation of who is the aggressor can change based on the circumstances mid fight: which is why you used the word "mollywopped".  Very different from intervening to separate two kids when one is on the ground and being mollywopped v. rushing onto the field and shoving a kid to the ground who is engaged in a fair fight when yours might have been the aggressor (now for fun what result if the shoved kids parent rushes onto the field and punches you for shoving their kid).  And your point about the two different burdens is well taken (correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think self-defense shifts the burden in California).  Not arguing that this is "fair"....just that intervention by a parent carries risk, it's messy and not cut and dry. 

And in any case, quite outside both criminal and civil claims, the expectations from the orgs and their rules is that parents stay out of it and the victim doesn't fight back.  You guys seem to be making an argument that these rules aren't fair or appropriate.


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## MacDre (Dec 1, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> And in any case, quite outside both criminal and civil claims, the expectations from the orgs and their rules is that parents stay out of it and the victim doesn't fight back.  You guys seem to be making an argument that these rules aren't fair or appropriate.


I’d say orgs have an unfair and unreasonable expectations.  Those one-sided take it or leave it contracts rarely stand under close scrutiny.

I think parents have a reasonable expectation that orgs will provide a safe and nurturing environment.  If an orgs breaches the parents reasonable expectations they’re unlikely to prevail on their zero tolerance position because they have unclean hands and breached first.


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## dad4 (Dec 1, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Maybe that would work. I dont really care.
> 
> Reality is that the coach would have to spend $$$ defending their actions and more importantly they would have a prior starting that they attack kids. Even the most braindead dorks in the world will think twice about rushing the field when serious consequences are involved.


Reality?

Reality is that parents will be on the pitch if there is a fight.

The question is whether their actions will be helpful or harmful.  But they are not likely to do nothing, no matter how fervently you might wish it to be so.


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## sockma (Dec 2, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Funny how commenters have twisted this thread from being appalled that a coach/spectator would run on the field + attack a player to giving reasons that it's ok to run on the field and providing approval for some kind of karate chop if warranted.
> 
> The net is that any adult that runs on the field + attacks a player should be charged criminally with assault against a child.
> 
> Sounds like the coach that ran on the field + attacked a player will likely get away with it. I'm also going to bet that he'll do it again.


There was additional information added to the thread that seems to indicate it was not the scenario you seem to keep pushing.  It sounds more like someone just preventing a fight with a push and then walking away from the situation and crowd.

I've been on the sidelines plenty of time and have seen many grown men and women go at each other, but not once have they entered the field to attack players.  They have entered to break up fights, pull kids off or push kids away.   Nothing wrong with that since referees can't do it or may be too far to.  Why wait for someone you think has the "authority" to help out in a violent situation?  Be an adult and just stop it.  Don't go in swinging but a push or a pull to help stop the attacker is always welcome.


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## espola (Dec 2, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> Not my laws, not my rules.
> It’s the same at most public schools too: you are expected to take the beating from your bully and if you fight back you can be punished too. If you intervene to help someone you can be treated as an assailant. Welcome to the world of zero tolerance.


More of gtaceops fables.


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Dec 2, 2022)

Let’s just say when you put your hands on minor the way I witness happen at this game to this player.  You deserve to be charged as assault. To add to the fact that you are the OWNER OF VC FUSION Rabnir Shergill  does not give you the right to put your hand on a child.


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## Grace T. (Dec 2, 2022)

espola said:


> More of gtaceops fables.


Care to enlighten us all where I’m wrong about zero tolerance or you just going to do the usual troll schtick?  Iirc you don’t have kids or grandkids of school age.


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## espola (Dec 2, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> Care to enlighten us all where I’m wrong about zero tolerance or you just going to do the usual troll schtick?  Iirc you don’t have kids or grandkids of school age.


As usual, when your unsupported generalities are pointed out you accuse me of trolling.


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## Grace T. (Dec 3, 2022)

espola said:


> As usual, when your unsupported generalities are pointed out you accuse me of trolling.


So no. Usual schtick it is then.

 You used to be better at it…you’ve officially bored me now…snooze.


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## espola (Dec 3, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> So no. Usual schtick it is then.
> 
> You used to be better at it…you’ve officially bored me now…snooze.


I have developed  a zero tolerance policy toward posts that are just vapid blatherings.


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## Grace T. (Dec 3, 2022)

espola said:


> I have developed  a zero tolerance policy toward posts that are just vapid blatherings.


Ok then…we are agreed then…ciao

and don’t think it hasn’t been a little slice of heaven! (Because it hasnt)


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## pewpew (Dec 9, 2022)

espola said:


> I have developed  a zero tolerance policy toward posts that are just vapid blatherings.


And yet we still entertain your drivel almost daily......


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## pewpew (Dec 10, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Funny how commenters have twisted this thread from being appalled that a coach/spectator would run on the field + attack a player to giving reasons that it's ok to run on the field and providing approval for some kind of karate chop if warranted.


^^ Not sure if part of this comment was directed at me.  After reading thru all the posts again, I see mine was the only one mentioning martial arts. 
That being said..where in my post did it say there was "approval for some kind of karate chop if warranted?" Your reading comprehension blows if that's what you think I said. But I'll break it down a bit for you just in case. I said my kids study martial arts to defend themselves. There are three types of people in this world. Wolves, sheep, & sheep dogs. Wolves prey on the weakness of others. Sheep...well..enough said. The sheep dog are there to protect the sheep from the wolves. We raise ours to NEVER be a wolf. 100% sheep dog. If you want to raise yours to be either a wolf or a sheep then by all means go for it. Just know that if any of my kids saw one of your kids taking a beating on the pitch or anywhere else for that matter..they'd step in and help. Unless they witnessed that your kid was a wolf and started it..but getting their ass handed to them now..they'd let your kid take their lumps..and be a good character witness for the whole thing.


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