# 2018 ODP West Schedule is out.



## Gokicksomegrass (Dec 19, 2017)

http://regioniv.usyouthsoccer.org/odp/odp_championships/

I know, I know. B team. Not best players here. Corrupt. Don't waste your money.
DA will be rule them all and in the darkness, bind them.
Did I miss something?


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## vegasguy (Dec 20, 2017)

funny..


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## Frank (Dec 20, 2017)

are the final rosters posted


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## Dargle (Dec 20, 2017)

Frank said:


> are the final rosters posted


They haven't even finished the training and roster selection process for the 2004 and 2005/2006 teams.  They just had their first training session on Saturday.


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## jdiaz (Dec 20, 2017)

Please don' waste your money it. not worth it.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Dec 20, 2017)

Congratulations to the girls selected and good luck in the games.


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## Monkey (Dec 20, 2017)

Frank said:


> are the final rosters posted


It should be pretty easy to tell what the final rosters are given the bulk in most ages groups are DA players. I understand the automatic invites for players that made the final cut in the Spring and that there are going to be some worthy players left off the list and some players on the list that you want to scratch your head, but when our money that is going to  Calsouth to scout players is obviously not spent on scouting why even pretend to scout players?  Why not just entirely use the Spring list instead of wasting money in the winter for this alleged scouting.   If you think I am bitter then yes.  I hate to see money wasted for this bs and when you have a player on the list that has not played soccer in over a year, the people in charge need to be held accountable. I would rather have the money spent on these scouts go to charity.  Is there somewhere that lists these alleged scouts?


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## Frank (Dec 20, 2017)

Monkey said:


> It should be pretty easy to tell what the final rosters are given the bulk in most ages groups are DA players. I understand the automatic invites for players that made the final cut in the Spring and that there are going to be some worthy players left off the list and some players on the list that you want to scratch your head, but when our money that is going to  Calsouth to scout players is obviously not spent on scouting why even pretend to scout players?  Why not just entirely use the Spring list instead of wasting money in the winter for this alleged scouting.   If you think I am bitter then yes.  I hate to see money wasted for this bs and when you have a player on the list that has not played soccer in over a year, the people in charge need to be held accountable. I would rather have the money spent on these scouts go to charity.  Is there somewhere that lists these alleged scouts?


I didn't know DA could play ODP


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 20, 2017)

Frank said:


> I didn't know DA could play ODP


They can not.


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## CaliSoccer (Dec 20, 2017)

Why do people always speak of wasted money?  Are they not aware that you don't pay for ODP.


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## CaliSoccer (Dec 20, 2017)

Monkey said:


> It should be pretty easy to tell what the final rosters are given the bulk in most ages groups are DA players. I understand the automatic invites for players that made the final cut in the Spring and that there are going to be some worthy players left off the list and some players on the list that you want to scratch your head, but when our money that is going to  Calsouth to scout players is obviously not spent on scouting why even pretend to scout players?  Why not just entirely use the Spring list instead of wasting money in the winter for this alleged scouting.   If you think I am bitter then yes.  I hate to see money wasted for this bs and when you have a player on the list that has not played soccer in over a year, the people in charge need to be held accountable. I would rather have the money spent on these scouts go to charity.  Is there somewhere that lists these alleged scouts?


This may be true for 04 players, but there are only a handful of 05's playing DA with the larger portion of 05's rostered as DP's. What money are you wasting? Is it the club costs you are complaining about because you don't pay for ODP.  Just trying to understand your comments.


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## YNWA 96 (Dec 20, 2017)

CaliSoccer said:


> This may be true for 04 players, but there are only a handful of 05's playing DA with the larger portion of 05's rostered as DP's. What money are you wasting? Is it the club costs you are complaining about because you don't pay for ODP.  Just trying to understand your comments.


ODP is not free, there is a cost to tryout for ODP $100 or so.  Once you are selected for the final team then there is no cost for the kids to play.  Grant it, it is a fraction of what it cost to play club soccer.


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## Simisoccerfan (Dec 20, 2017)

How do the kids get to Arizona?  Are parents cost's covered too?


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## CaliSoccer (Dec 20, 2017)

YNWA 96 said:


> ODP is not free, there is a cost to tryout for ODP $100 or so.  Once you are selected for the final team then there is no cost for the kids to play.  Grant it, it is a fraction of what it cost to play club soccer.


You are correct, not free but _only_ $100 and you get Nike issued uniform, meals and travel covered.  Pretty close to free in my book. Especially since you pay 10x that for club and still have to pay for a uniform and into a team fund account too! I'll take the $100 deal any day of the week.


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## G03_SD (Dec 20, 2017)

Yale, Duke, Columbia charge $80 for a college application, Stanford charge $90.  That's just to fill out some paper, nothing in return. You don't have to pay and waste effort if you don't want to attend these schools. You don't see the parents applying complaining about the cost, and if their kids are not academically fit for these institutions, they wouldn't apply either.  Can this same mentality apply to soccer? Spend your money as you see fit


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## Dargle (Dec 20, 2017)

Simisoccerfan said:


> How do the kids get to Arizona?  Are parents cost's covered too?


Kids' travel/hotel costs are covered by Cal South. There is a meal fee of about $100 for the 4 days, but that's it. Parents costs aren't covered, but they actually aren't supposed to stay at the same hotel as the kids or travel with them (the team travels and stays in the hotel as a unit), so parent travel to watch the games is really optional.


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## Monkey (Dec 20, 2017)

My point is that the scouts are not doing their job.  No kids that are playing DA should be on this list because they are not eligible for ODP and yet the bulk of the players listed are playing DA.

Regarding the costs, everyone that has a child that plays with a Calsouth players card is funding this program.  If you did not realize it, part of the fee to play rec or competitive soccer goes to fund Calsouth and their programs including ODP.  I for one don't mind that some of my money goes to the ODP program so that our region can prove that we are #1 but I do mind paying for scouts that are not doing their job.  Gosh the least they can do is make sure everyone on the list is still playing soccer.


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## Simisoccerfan (Dec 20, 2017)

Dargle said:


> Kids' travel/hotel costs are covered by Cal South. There is a meal fee of about $100 for the 4 days, but that's it. Parents costs aren't covered, but they actually aren't supposed to stay at the same hotel as the kids or travel with them (the team travels and stays in the hotel as a unit), so parent travel to watch the games is really optional.


I am okay with not traveling with the kids assuming the team all leaves together with chaperones.  I don't agree with not allowing parents to stay at the same hotel.


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 20, 2017)

Simisoccerfan said:


> I am okay with not traveling with the kids assuming the team all leaves together with chaperones.  I don't agree with not allowing parents to stay at the same hotel.


It's also a DA rule.


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## Simisoccerfan (Dec 20, 2017)

Not really.  Nothing prevents parents from booking in the same hotel as their kids in DA.


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## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2017)

YNWA 96 said:


> ODP is not free, there is a cost to tryout for ODP $100 or so.  Once you are selected for the final team then there is no cost for the kids to play.  Grant it, it is a fraction of what it cost to play club soccer.


Yes, what's another hundred or 2 on top of 3 or 4 grand? It will almost buy a pair of cleats.


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## timbuck (Dec 20, 2017)

A few hundred bucks to be able to tell people that your 12 year old is part of the US Olympic Soccer program is a pretty good deal.  I bet you could sell her autograph at cocktail parties.


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## Nutmeg (Dec 20, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> It's also a DA rule.


It’s also a stupid rule. See the current Olympic Girls Gymnatics team for a real Big reason why a teenage girl should not be alone in a hotel or a room without their parents being present. Yeah chaperones are great and I’m sure the coaches are fantastic, and I’m also sure there has never been an issue... ever.  But that’s also what every parent of those girls thought as well. I just don’t understand why it is necessary. Other than some BS control thing by ego driven associations. I got a girl in college now and on this seasons road trips we stayed in the team hotel. Even ate dinner with assoc AD.


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## Nutmeg (Dec 20, 2017)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Not really.  Nothing prevents parents from booking in the same hotel as their kids in DA.


Just the clubs rule. Which many have


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 20, 2017)

Nutmeg said:


> It’s also a stupid rule. See the current Olympic Girls Gymnatics team for a real Big reason why a teenage girl should not be alone in a hotel or a room without their parents being present. Yeah chaperones are great and I’m sure the coaches are fantastic, and I’m also sure there has never been an issue... ever.  But that’s also what every parent of those girls thought as well. I just don’t understand why it is necessary. Other than some BS control thing by ego driven associations. I got a girl in college now and on this seasons road trips we stayed in the team hotel. Even ate dinner with assoc AD.


Ok.


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## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2017)

timbuck said:


> A few hundred bucks to be able to tell people that your 12 year old is part of the US Olympic Soccer program is a pretty good deal.  I bet you could sell her autograph at cocktail parties.


It is worth every penny to watch your kid compete in ODP, whether they like it or not.
The parents at these events seem to be pretty excited.


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## Soccerfan2 (Dec 20, 2017)

My daughter chose to do ODP this year since it’s her last chance befor academy starts. It was $125 to register, a little over $200 for required gear (jacket, pants, shirts, backpack) and $1000 for Arizona (flight, hotel, transport and food).  We’ll spend another $900 or so going to watch her.  She’s with Cal North. A few of the strongest players in NorCal tried out for ODP. Most did not. I’m hoping the other states are well enough represented that the competition is worthwhile. We looked at is as a chance for her to meet and play with some new girls, and have fun traveling and playing against players from all over. So far she’s having fun and learning from her ODP coach. We can’t afford to do all the things like this that come up, but hopefully this one will make her some good memories. I’m jealous that the CalSouth girls don’t have to pay to travel!


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## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2017)

Soccerfan2 said:


> My daughter chose to do ODP this year since it’s her last chance befor academy starts. It was $125 to register, a little over $200 for required gear (jacket, pants, shirts, backpack) and $1000 for Arizona (flight, hotel, transport and food).  We’ll spend another $900 or so going to watch her.  She’s with Cal North. A few of the strongest players in NorCal tried out for ODP. Most did not. I’m hoping the other states are well enough represented that the competition is worthwhile. We looked at is as a chance for her to meet and play with some new girls, and have fun traveling and playing against players from all over. So far she’s having fun and learning from her ODP coach. We can’t afford to do all the things like this that come up, but hopefully this one will make her some good memories. I’m jealous that the CalSouth girls don’t have to pay to travel!


That doesn't make much sense, 125 to register and 100 for food if you make the team in SoCal, that's it I believe.


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## soloyosh (Dec 21, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> It is worth every penny to watch your kid compete in ODP, whether they like it or not.
> The parents at these events seem to be pretty excited.


I agree it's cool, but "Olympic Development Program" implies a pathway that does not exist any longer.  I just with they'd change the name.


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## Dargle (Dec 21, 2017)

soloyosh said:


> I agree it's cool, but "Olympic Development Program" implies a pathway that does not exist any longer.  I just with they'd change the name.


I tend to agree that the name is misleading, but I can offer a couple pieces of information that suggests it may still offer some opportunities to be seen.  (1) An LAFC scout has attended the tryouts (at least for the younger boys) last spring and this winter.  Talked to several of the better kids, 1-2 of whom ended up leaving ODP before selections last Spring and moving to LAFC.  (2) At the summer training camp for ODP-selected players in Ojai this year, there was apparently a US Soccer scout who came and watched at least one training session of every age group. Or, at least that's what the kids were told and reported based on hearing from the guy and seeing his gear etc.  (3) If you get selected and travel to Arizona with the Cal South team, there are college coaches in attendance.  Far more on the girls' side than the boys in the past (because there was no DA on the girls side, so that will probably decline for them now too), but some on the boys side still come.  Most of the men's coaches  that attend are from pretty small/obscure schools, but I think the Yale men's coach was there last year.  Perhaps he was just there for a winter trip to a warm climate (and/or a write-off of a trip to see family), but I can imagine that if you're looking for a strong academic kid who is also good at soccer, and you're not a top DI soccer program, ODP might offer a place to find a gem of a player who combines the top play with the strong academics (in part because the kid might have turned down DA opportunities to focus on his academics).  

Does all of that combined together mean ODP is a "pathway?"  No, if by that you mean the path most top players take if they want to be scouted and advanced to DI colleges and USYNT camps.  Still, it offers a little bit of access to that world, which is more than most of these kids will get in their club teams alone, although less than they will get if they joined most DA teams.  Not a reason to do it if it's inconvenient or as an alternative to DA, but a positive if you're considering the pros and cons of accepting an offer of a spot in the pool (and the biggest pro is just getting an opportunity to play a lot of scrimmages with a bunch of pretty strong kids during periods when your club team likely wouldn't be practicing/playing anyway).


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 21, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> That doesn't make much sense, 125 to register and 100 for food if you make the team in SoCal, that's it I believe.


Correct.  ODP was a great experience for my player.  She won 2 national championships and really got on the radar of the top schools in the country prior to attending a YNT camp.  The $200 spent for the entire thing including travel, meals and the initial tryout was money well spent.


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## shales1002 (Dec 21, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> That doesn't make much sense, 125 to register and 100 for food if you make the team in SoCal, that's it I believe.


Not the SoCal team... I believe @Soccerfan2  said NorCal. You guys have a good system in terms of costs.


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 21, 2017)

Dargle said:


> Does all of that combined together mean ODP is a "pathway?"  No, if by that you mean the path most top players take if they want to be scouted and advanced to DI colleges and USYNT camps.  Still, it offers a little bit of access to that world, which is more than most of these kids will get in their club teams alone, although less than they will get if they joined most DA teams.  Not a reason to do it if it's inconvenient or as an alternative to DA, but a positive if you're considering the pros and cons of accepting an offer of a spot in the pool (and the biggest pro is just getting an opportunity to play a lot of scrimmages with a bunch of pretty strong kids during periods when your club team likely wouldn't be practicing/playing anyway).


Almost every kid on my players college team and YNT played ODP at some point and ALL  of the SoCal kids on her team were ID'd for the YNT through ODP.  My player got incredible offers from all 3 of her top schools after they watched her play in the regional championships in Arizona and by the time the National championships in Texas came along her sophomore year she was already committed to the school that she currently attends.  ODP was better competition than ECNL was or GDA will ever be due to the player dilution.  In SoCal the reality is there are only 25-35 elite kids per age group and they SHOULD be training together not spread out on 21 teams.  ODP used to be that opportunity.  Of course then there were only about 10 "top level" teams per age group.


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## Lambchop (Dec 21, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Almost every kid on my players college team and YNT played ODP at some point and ALL  of the SoCal kids on her team were ID'd for the YNT through ODP.  My player got incredible offers from all 3 of her top schools after they watched her play in the regional championships in Arizona and by the time the National championships in Texas came along her sophomore year she was already committed to the school that she currently attends.  ODP was better competition than ECNL was or GDA will ever be due to the player dilution.  In SoCal the reality is there are only 25-35 elite kids per age group and they SHOULD be training together not spread out on 21 teams.  ODP used to be that opportunity.  Of course then there were only about 10 "top level" teams per age group.


The thing is, that was the past.  Probably 98% of the top players will not be participating in ODP because they are in DA and the DA rules do not allow them to participate.


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 21, 2017)

soloyosh said:


> I agree it's cool, but "Olympic Development Program" implies a pathway that does not exist any longer.  I just with they'd change the name.


Change Olympic to Other? Other Development Program?


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## Soccerfan2 (Dec 21, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> The thing is, that was the past.  Probably 98% of the top players will not be participating in ODP because they are in DA and the DA rules do not allow them to participate.


I agree...DA is changing and will continue change ODP if not make it obsolete. DA and NTC are the new pathways. But it’s still a nice chance to play with different kids until DA or for those that opt not to do DA.


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## Hitman6813 (Dec 21, 2017)

YNWA 96 said:


> ODP is not free, there is a cost to tryout for ODP $100 or so.  Once you are selected for the final team then there is no cost for the kids to play.  Grant it, it is a fraction of what it cost to play club soccer.


Wow, you guys are lucky. In Nevada we pay for it all. Tryouts, uniforms, hotel and food. I sent about $2000 last year.


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## soloyosh (Dec 21, 2017)

State Select Team or something more relevant.

Being in a small town, when we have a player that makes it the local paper always has something stupid like "Look for Johnny at the 2020 Tokyo games!"


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## Hank Walker (Dec 21, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> The thing is, that was the past.  Probably 98% of the top players will not be participating in ODP because they are in DA and the DA rules do not allow them to participate.


While I do agree that was in the past, and it will be different moving forward, I don't agree at all with your 98% number. There are and will be plenty of good players not playing DA. There will certainly be some ECNL players that could but choose not to play DA, some good non-DA/ECNL club players that choose not to travel to play DA or prefer to play locally with classmates/friends (SDSC 03 a good example). And if it continues, ODP will still be a regional all-star team of sorts. Probably not on the level of what @MAP describes with future UCLA/Stanford/UNC and YNT players,  but still good quality.


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## Sheriff Joe (Dec 21, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Almost every kid on my players college team and YNT played ODP at some point and ALL  of the SoCal kids on her team were ID'd for the YNT through ODP.  My player got incredible offers from all 3 of her top schools after they watched her play in the regional championships in Arizona and by the time the National championships in Texas came along her sophomore year she was already committed to the school that she currently attends.  ODP was better competition than ECNL was or GDA will ever be due to the player dilution.  In SoCal the reality is there are only 25-35 elite kids per age group and they SHOULD be training together not spread out on 21 teams.  ODP used to be that opportunity.  Of course then there were only about 10 "top level" teams per age group.


One of the ODP coaches seemed pretty concerned about the ODP and its lack of players due to DA and ECNL this year.


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## MakeAPlay (Dec 21, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> One of the ODP coaches seemed pretty concerned about the ODP and its lack of players due to DA and ECNL this year.


My experience is from 2009 thru 2014 of ODP (from about 6th grade until my player's junior year of high school).  Things may be changing but it's because the parents are getting sold a bill of goods that isn't going to increase a kid's chance of going to a top school.  All that is going to happen is that you are going to have more robotic players who can't adjust to different styles of coaching and they are going to miss out on a lot of experience that is excellent at preparing players for the next level.  My player's ODP team from her junior year could be most D1 colleges.  There isn't one GDA team in the country that wouldn't be mauled by the top half of D1.  I will bet anything that the numbers of players receiving scholarships won't change (it will be within one standard deviation of the mean of the last 10 years).  I will bet that the same number of players transfer due to bad fit.  I am confident that things with GDA and their mandates are going to change in some way, shape or form.

I know that if my player were an '05, like the daughter of one of my good friends, she would play for the same clubs that she played and for the same coaches and would do the same ODP camps.  Hindsight is 20/20 and her determination, her coach and her parents were the keys to her development.  Not US Soccer mandates or 4 days a week of team training.  Her college team doesn't train 4 days a week and they were the NCAA runner up.  This crapola coming from US Soccer and the clubs isn't necessary.


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## Sheriff Joe (Dec 21, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> My experience is from 2009 thru 2014 of ODP (from about 6th grade until my player's junior year of high school).  Things may be changing but it's because the parents are getting sold a bill of goods that isn't going to increase a kid's chance of going to a top school.  All that is going to happen is that you are going to have more robotic players who can't adjust to different styles of coaching and they are going to miss out on a lot of experience that is excellent at preparing players for the next level.  My player's ODP team from her junior year could be most D1 colleges.  There isn't one GDA team in the country that wouldn't be mauled by the top half of D1.  I will bet anything that the numbers of players receiving scholarships won't change (it will be within one standard deviation of the mean of the last 10 years).  I will bet that the same number of players transfer due to bad fit.  I am confident that things with GDA and their mandates are going to change in some way, shape or form.
> 
> I know that if my player were an '05, like the daughter of one of my good friends, she would play for the same clubs that she played and for the same coaches and would do the same ODP camps.  Hindsight is 20/20 and her determination, her coach and her parents were the keys to her development.  Not US Soccer mandates or 4 days a week of team training.  Her college team doesn't train 4 days a week and they were the NCAA runner up.  This crapola coming from US Soccer and the clubs isn't necessary.


Do you think there is more visibility with DA and ECNL than regular clubs?


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## Soccerfan2 (Dec 21, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> My experience is from 2009 thru 2014 of ODP (from about 6th grade until my player's junior year of high school).  Things may be changing but it's because the parents are getting sold a bill of goods that isn't going to increase a kid's chance of going to a top school.  All that is going to happen is that you are going to have more robotic players who can't adjust to different styles of coaching and they are going to miss out on a lot of experience that is excellent at preparing players for the next level.  My player's ODP team from her junior year could be most D1 colleges.  There isn't one GDA team in the country that wouldn't be mauled by the top half of D1.  I will bet anything that the numbers of players receiving scholarships won't change (it will be within one standard deviation of the mean of the last 10 years).  I will bet that the same number of players transfer due to bad fit.  I am confident that things with GDA and their mandates are going to change in some way, shape or form.
> 
> I know that if my player were an '05, like the daughter of one of my good friends, she would play for the same clubs that she played and for the same coaches and would do the same ODP camps.  Hindsight is 20/20 and her determination, her coach and her parents were the keys to her development.  Not US Soccer mandates or 4 days a week of team training.  Her college team doesn't train 4 days a week and they were the NCAA runner up.  This crapola coming from US Soccer and the clubs isn't necessary.


I agree MAP.  But in our case my kids’ club became DA. For us DA is the same club and coaches, and to avoid DA we have to leave the club and commute or play down on the second team.
I can say that US soccer directly scouts DA teams. At games and practices occasionally.


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## BigSoccer (Dec 21, 2017)

DA is great but there are many kids in geographical areas where there are no DA options.  Many of these kids are DA quality but no option for DA unless their family moves or they are sent from their family to a DA where they have connections like aunts and uncles to live with.  ECNL is a good option too but again there are areas based on travel time to training, travel to play schedule or whatever where parents just do not find it feasible to maintain that level.  So ODP can be an option more on the girls side I am sure.  I do know a few boys who were seen at the Region Championships in FL that helped them to the next level.   DA is great but misses, ECNL is great but misses, ODP is dying.  What are the options?  Do what you think is best for your child.


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## Sheriff Joe (Dec 21, 2017)

BigSoccer said:


> DA is great but there are many kids in geographical areas where there are no DA options.  Many of these kids are DA quality but no option for DA unless their family moves or they are sent from their family to a DA where they have connections like aunts and uncles to live with.  ECNL is a good option too but again there are areas based on travel time to training, travel to play schedule or whatever where parents just do not find it feasible to maintain that level.  So ODP can be an option more on the girls side I am sure.  I do know a few boys who were seen at the Region Championships in FL that helped them to the next level.   DA is great but misses, ECNL is great but misses, ODP is dying.  What are the options?  Do what you think is best for your child.


Any exposure is good exposure, you never know, one of the ODP coaches just may take a liking to your kid.


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## shales1002 (Dec 21, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Any exposure is good exposure, you never know, one of the ODP coaches just may take a liking to your kid.


 Isn't that what it's all about...exposure? Exposure gets you noticed. Good point.


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## jdiaz (Dec 21, 2017)

CaliSoccer said:


> Why do people always speak of wasted money?  Are they not aware that you don't pay for ODP.


Yes you do. $100 plus the camp fees. What planet are you on.


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## jdiaz (Dec 21, 2017)

Monkey said:


> My point is that the scouts are not doing their job.  No kids that are playing DA should be on this list because they are not eligible for ODP and yet the bulk of the players listed are playing DA.
> 
> Regarding the costs, everyone that has a child that plays with a Calsouth players card is funding this program.  If you did not realize it, part of the fee to play rec or competitive soccer goes to fund Calsouth and their programs including ODP.  I for one don't mind that some of my money goes to the ODP program so that our region can prove that we are #1 but I do mind paying for scouts that are not doing their job.  Gosh the least they can do is make sure everyone on the list is still playing soccer.


Scouts that's funny. Your coach recommends the players to the ODP.  THERE IS A LOT OF FAVORITISM.


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## MWN (Dec 21, 2017)

jdiaz said:


> Scouts that's funny. Your coach recommends the players to the ODP.  THERE IS A LOT OF FAVORITISM.


@jdiaz  I have to disagree on two fronts.
First, its not a waste of money ... $100 to $200 bucks to get the ODP badge on the kids resume is worth its weight and opens college doors.  ODP in SoCal may be a bit diluted, but ODP SoCal teams will still beat 90% of the rest of the west region because we are very, very deep in talent here.  In 2016, Cal South was named champion in 5 of the 10 groups. Many kids with DA potential won't go because of the rules or requirements.  They will stay in NPL, Premier/Flight 1/ECNL and get an ODP invitation now and then.

Second, the ODP scouts will be at National Cup in full force.  They have their list that is recommended by the various clubs/coaches, but are sitting on the sidelines and watching for players that stand out.


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## Gokicksomegrass (Dec 21, 2017)

And then, you have studs, like Hailie Mace. Two sports gal who wanted to play with friends,  but alas, a "nobody", according to knowledge folks who just know how things work and can ID talent. You know, folks who's judgement you can trust, like DOC, coaches, parents, especially
on this forum. 
Hey big mama Bruin, Wendy Mace, if you are reading this, you done good. Thank you for fighting the good fight.


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## Sheriff Joe (Dec 21, 2017)

jdiaz said:


> Scouts that's funny. Your coach recommends the players to the ODP.  THERE IS A LOT OF FAVORITISM.


I have seen odp scouts at silver lakes many times.


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## smellycleats (Dec 21, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> It's also a DA rule.


Nothing could keep me from being there with my 13 year old daughter. Separating adolescent girls from their parents? What’s the point of that?


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## jdiaz (Dec 21, 2017)

Girls ODP I don't know. But the boys it's about money and favorites. Weather you want to believe it or not the coaches are asked to refer kids to ODP.  If you look at the regions they almost same kids recycle 2 to 4 players for better players. And they train the kids for ODP then select the kids. Most of the region's are sponsored by MLS team . Who sponsors ODP in california?


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 22, 2017)

smellycleats said:


> Nothing could keep me from being there with my 13 year old daughter. Separating adolescent girls from their parents? What’s the point of that?


I was pointing out that from what I understand per DA was hotel stay for players and parents is to be separate. I didnot say I approved or disagreed.


----------



## smellycleats (Dec 22, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I was pointing out that from what I understand per DA was hotel stay for players and parents is to be separate. I didnot say I approved or disagreed.


Right. Understood. I was just stating my position on the fact you stated. Not objecting to anything you said.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Dec 22, 2017)

smellycleats said:


> Right. Understood. I was just stating my position on the fact you stated. Not objecting to anything you said.


Got it. I can say this I hate not going to any of my kids games no matter where they are.


----------



## JoeBieber (Dec 22, 2017)

soloyosh said:


> I agree it's cool, but "Olympic Development Program" implies a pathway that does not exist any longer.  I just with they'd change the name.


Exactly. It's false advertising.


----------



## Fact (Dec 22, 2017)

jdiaz said:


> Girls ODP I don't know. But the boys it's about money and favorites. Weather you want to believe it or not the coaches are asked to refer kids to ODP.  If you look at the regions they almost same kids recycle 2 to 4 players for better players. And they train the kids for ODP then select the kids. Most of the region's are sponsored by MLS team . Who sponsors ODP in california?


There will always be enough top quality players to have a great team.  98% of the top players are not playing DA and will not for all the reasons already identified.  The problem is that scouts will not bother to look at lower level teams for a gem.  And Mace is a great example of a player that got no respect.  I am sure her coach recommended her to ODP but the scouts probably did not want to waste their time on a low level game.  For everyone that has seen scouts at games, I bet your team is a top 25 team in Socal or your coach is somehow connected to the ODP coaches or scouts. Or at the very least, you're in a Nike club.  Don't believe me, look at the clubs the players come from.


----------



## Soccer43 (Dec 23, 2017)

smellycleats said:


> Nothing could keep me from being there with my 13 year old daughter. Separating adolescent girls from their parents? What’s the point of that?


You may be a decent and appropriate parent but I have seen much of the opposite.  Parents can be an interference, badgering their DD to tears because she didn't perform the way the parent thought she should or trying to coach their DD leading to confusion on the field.  It is a distraction and is disruptive.  Your DD needs to be focused on the team and coaching instruction.  It is not a regular tournament or family vacation.  There is no reason to stay at the hotel as your DD is involved in team activities and itinerary the whole time.

If your DD gets a call up to a YNT camp will you be staying with her then as well and will you be traveling to international matches if she gets selected for a YNT roster?  The coaches and you need to see how your DD handles this type of environment to see if she is mature enough and able to handle that higher level environment.


----------



## US Soccer (Dec 23, 2017)

Soccer43 said:


> You may be a decent and appropriate parent but I have seen much of the opposite.  Parents can be an interference, badgering their DD to tears because she didn't perform the way the parent thought she should or trying to coach their DD leading to confusion on the field.  It is a distraction and is disruptive.  Your DD needs to be focused on the team and coaching instruction.  It is not a regular tournament or family vacation.  There is no reason to stay at the hotel as your DD is involved in team activities and itinerary the whole time.
> 
> If your DD gets a call up to a YNT camp will you be staying with her then as well and will you be traveling to international matches if she gets selected for a YNT roster?  The coaches and you need to see how your DD handles this type of environment to see if she is mature enough and able to handle that higher level environment.


That would be great if the kid was in her late teens.  A lot of these kids are 13, yes 13!  Far too young to be with almost complete strangers and away from parents, IMO.  I'd agree with you if they kids were older.


----------



## Soccer43 (Dec 23, 2017)

US Soccer said:


> That would be great if the kid was in her late teens.  A lot of these kids are 13, yes 13!  Far too young to be with almost complete strangers and away from parents, IMO.  I'd agree with you if they kids were older.


13 is definitely old enough to travel to Arizona with the ODP team. - would you turn down a YNT call up because she would be with strangers without you?  

In 2016 they started a new U14 cycle.  On the March roster there were 14 '03's.  They would have been either 12 or just turned 13 years old. Some came from as far as the east coast for a week long camp.


----------



## Chalklines (Dec 23, 2017)

Soccer43 said:


> - would you turn down a YNT call up because she would be with strangers without you?


And comments similar to these are why scum bags like Nassar got away with what he did for so long. 

Parents will look the other way and or stay quiet if it means opertunity for their child. 

Dont be a fool. Keep an eye on child. If the YNT is truly interested in your child's ability they will have no problem with you being a chaperone.


----------



## Striker17 (Dec 23, 2017)

Chalklines said:


> And comments similar to these are why scum bags like Nassar got away with what he did for so long.
> 
> Parents will look the other way and or stay quiet if it means opertunity for their child.
> 
> Dont be a fool. Keep an eye on child. If the YNT is truly interested in your child's ability they will have no problem with you being a chaperone.


Thank you for this! I am consistently shocked at these parents in this board. Is anyone not reading news?
The majority of people are good but goodness there isn't even a time on a school trip that this is allowed! They always want to be compared to "teachers" but yet they want our daughters alone, want them to text them, don't want to be questioned. 
I also bring this up because I am shocked at the amount of male coaches who demand that these girls talk only to them? Wow! Has no one taught these coaches about perception and their liability? 
One wrong move, innuendo, upset girl and a career and a livelihood are questioned. These coaches are not protecting themselves either which is very worrisome. I am a business person and frankly it's bad for business


----------



## JoeBieber (Dec 23, 2017)

Fact said:


> There will always be enough top quality players to have a great team.  98% of the top players are not playing DA and will not for all the reasons already identified.  The problem is that scouts will not bother to look at lower level teams for a gem.  And Mace is a great example of a player that got no respect.  I am sure her coach recommended her to ODP but the scouts probably did not want to waste their time on a low level game.  For everyone that has seen scouts at games, I bet your team is a top 25 team in Socal or your coach is somehow connected to the ODP coaches or scouts. Or at the very least, you're in a Nike club.  Don't believe me, look at the clubs the players come from.


What? 98% of the top players are not playing DA? This is simply not true. 

People are blindly repeating Mace's feelgood story hatched by Foudy and others. The truth is that while she also played volleyball, she played HS soccer and for Eagles SC, and was identified at an ECNL event. Hardly the "UCLA coach scouted her at a rec game and found the diamond in the rough". She was a well known quantity by everyone by the time she accepted her offer. 

ODP used to serve a purpose. But the DA has killed it.


----------



## Fact (Dec 23, 2017)

JoeBieber said:


> What? 98% of the top players are not playing DA? This is simply not true.
> 
> People are blindly repeating Mace's feelgood story hatched by Foudy and others. The truth is that while she also played volleyball, she played HS soccer and for Eagles SC, and was identified at an ECNL event. Hardly the "UCLA coach scouted her at a rec game and found the diamond in the rough". She was a well known quantity by everyone by the time she accepted her offer.
> 
> ODP used to serve a purpose. But the DA has killed it.


I am not going to look for it but I believe earlier in this thread Lambchop said that 98% of the best players are playing DA.  I disagree.  Plenty of top players are playing ECNL and some are also playing at their local club.  For example look at the 03 SDSC team. Saying 98% are in DA is a gross overstatement unless the 98% refers to the consolidation of wacko parents that think their dd must play DA.

Mace did not play with the Eagles until her senior year and while she was known when she committed, she was not known until her mom sent a video to UCLA and the coach came down to watch her play.  I believe it was her junior year and the Nomads Thanksgiving tournament with low level teams.  I might be confusing this with another player, but she was not know  and had never made ODP which shows you that the scouts are not doing their job.

As for traveling with the team and not parents, this is strictly an American thing.  In Europe, American children and young adults are often seen as soft because of parental involvement and one of the reasons I believe that more American youth don't get an opportunity to play abroad.  European clubs are afraid that after spending money on American's, they will get homesick and leave. They don't have the same problem because European kids are on their own with clubs and thus more mature at an earlier age.(at least that is what they believe ).  I am not saying this is right because I always stayed as close as possible to my kids and when I could not be there, taught them to never be left anywhere with just 1 person for any reason.  Even if going to a teacher's office hours I told them to take a friend in case no other students are there.  I rather have my kids be seen a soft as long as they are safe and thus goes for boys too.


----------



## Nutmeg (Dec 23, 2017)

Soccer43 said:


> You may be a decent and appropriate parent but I have seen much of the opposite.  Parents can be an interference, badgering their DD to tears because she didn't perform the way the parent thought she should or trying to coach their DD leading to confusion on the field.  It is a distraction and is disruptive.  Your DD needs to be focused on the team and coaching instruction.  It is not a regular tournament or family vacation.  There is no reason to stay at the hotel as your DD is involved in team activities and itinerary the whole time.
> 
> If your DD gets a call up to a YNT camp will you be staying with her then as well and will you be traveling to international matches if she gets selected for a YNT roster?  The coaches and you need to see how your DD handles this type of environment to see if she is mature enough and able to handle that higher level environment.


Bullshi.


----------



## Nutmeg (Dec 23, 2017)

Fact said:


> I am not going to look for it but I believe earlier in this thread Lambchop said that 98% of the best players are playing DA.  I disagree.  Plenty of top players are playing ECNL and some are also playing at their local club.  For example look at the 03 SDSC team. Saying 98% are in DA is a gross overstatement unless the 98% refers to the consolidation of wacko parents that think their dd must play DA.
> 
> Mace did not play with the Eagles until her senior year and while she was known when she committed, she was not known until her mom sent a video to UCLA and the coach came down to watch her play.  I believe it was her junior year and the Nomads Thanksgiving tournament with low level teams.  I might be confusing this with another player, but she was not know  and had never made ODP which shows you that the scouts are not doing their job.
> 
> As for traveling with the team and not parents, this is strictly an American thing.  In Europe, American children and young adults are often seen as soft because of parental involvement and one of the reasons I believe that more American youth don't get an opportunity to play abroad.  European clubs are afraid that after spending money on American's, they will get homesick and leave. They don't have the same problem because European kids are on their own with clubs and thus more mature at an earlier age.(at least that is what they believe ).  I am not saying this is right because I always stayed as close as possible to my kids and when I could not be there, taught them to never be left anywhere with just 1 person for any reason.  Even if going to a teacher's office hours I told them to take a friend in case no other students are there.  I rather have my kids be seen a soft as long as they are safe and thus goes for boys too.


ODP scouts are a murkey bunch of randomness that feels like throwing random darts at a wall.  Your Europe info is interesting as it relates specifically to girls, Europe/South America, travel or housing. For boys the homesick issue has been a red herring that started a while back and gives clubs an easy out when players simply are not good enough or consistent enough compared with the player already in the club. The majority of Americans also can’t get to Europe due to FIFA rules and passport issues. US Soccer and it’s minions continue to spread a myth that parents are interfering bumbling idiots that will undermine their precious game or whatever. When in fact often times the majority of parents on this forum and in the Soccer community as a Whole handle our DD’s better than some random coach in a track suit.  The outright lie being sold is that a governing Soccer organization tasked with providing an opportunity for kids to play soccer also needs to see if your kid can handle a 7 hour bus ride, being alone in a holiday inn express, sharing a bed with 3 other 13 year old girls, with no or little adult supervision, bad food, a bad nights sleep and still then play 4 games is 3 days will somehow mean what? No club in Europe does this I promise you.


----------



## Nutmeg (Dec 23, 2017)

Soccer43 said:


> 13 is definitely old enough to travel to Arizona with the ODP team. - would you turn down a YNT call up because she would be with strangers without you?
> 
> In 2016 they started a new U14 cycle.  On the March roster there were 14 '03's.  They would have been either 12 or just turned 13 years old. Some came from as far as the east coast for a week long camp.


Come on man. They are not mutual exclusive things. Most players don’t get a YNT call up, and the ones that do receive one know the YNT itinerary is lock down legit. With the players best interest really taken to heart. ODP is not that at all. That being said, these are different times and what used to work and be accepted are and will need to be addressed. Any parent has the right to advocate and question for their child. If ODP or US Soccer find issue with that then that’s their problem. But I do know this if you’ve been called in and you are legit i have not heard yet of a DD not being called into camp because a kids parents had a question about the safety of their DD.


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## JoeBieber (Dec 23, 2017)

Fact said:


> I am not going to look for it but I believe earlier in this thread Lambchop said that 98% of the best players are playing DA.  I disagree.  Plenty of top players are playing ECNL and some are also playing at their local club.  For example look at the 03 SDSC team. Saying 98% are in DA is a gross overstatement unless the 98% refers to the consolidation of wacko parents that think their dd must play DA.


I'd disagree with both statements in the first year of the DA. The same was true of the boys when the DA was established. But I would be very surprised if the girls didn't follow the same path that the boys did. The first year of boys DA, many clubs chose not to participate, many players chose not to participate. But US Soccer holds all the cards and don't care about 99% of soccer players out there. Watch what happens these next few years - they will repeat the same pattern. They will select National Team call ups and heavily weight DA participation. Their scouts will tell parents that their kid will have a better shot and more looks if they play DA. Eventually (it took years), they've gotten to a point in which 98% of the top boys soccer players are in DA clubs. 

Maybe girls will be different. Maybe. But I doubt it.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Dec 23, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I was pointing out that from what I understand per DA was hotel stay for players and parents is to be separate. I didnot say I approved or disagreed.


LC what part do you disagree with?


----------



## Dargle (Dec 23, 2017)

Gokicksomegrass said:


> http://regioniv.usyouthsoccer.org/odp/odp_championships/
> 
> I know, I know. B team. Not best players here. Corrupt. Don't waste your money.
> DA will be rule them all and in the darkness, bind them.
> Did I miss something?


To go back to the original message, the schedule has now been taken down and is listed as "coming soon" on the site.  Perhaps the previous schedule was only preliminary and they didn't mean to post it or perhaps there have been changes.


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## shales1002 (Dec 23, 2017)

Dargle said:


> To go back to the original message, the schedule has now been taken down and is listed as "coming soon" on the site.  Perhaps the previous schedule was only preliminary and they didn't mean to post it or perhaps there have been changes.


That link never worked for me.

http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2018-ODP-West-Championships/Schedule/2004-Girls/Division+1/


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## shales1002 (Dec 23, 2017)

Chalklines said:


> And comments similar to these are why scum bags like Nassar got away with what he did for so long.
> 
> Parents will look the other way and or stay quiet if it means opertunity for their child.
> 
> Dont be a fool. Keep an eye on child. If the YNT is truly interested in your child's ability they will have no problem with you being a chaperone.



Nasser is a very unique and unfortunate situation. We have to show our DDs how to speak up, and how to fight back. The silence in this situation perpetuated the problem, and allowed for further abuse. Whether it's a scum like Nassar, a neighbor, or someone else we trust our children with like a teacher, a fair compromise for us is being in the area . My DD knows I'm 5-10 minutes away at most if she ever needs anyone. I look at it like a sleepover. She does this all the time with friends and I don't flip out. They need to know they can speak up and tell us anything.


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## shales1002 (Dec 23, 2017)

I posted the wrong link.

http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2018-ODP-West-Championships/


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## smellycleats (Dec 23, 2017)

shales1002 said:


> Nasser is a very unique and unfortunate situation. We have to show our DDs how to speak up, and how to fight back. The silence in this situation perpetuated the problem, and allowed for further abuse. Whether it's a scum like Nassar, a neighbor, or someone else we trust our children with like a teacher, a fair compromise for us is being in the area . My DD knows I'm 5-10 minutes away at most if she ever needs anyone. I look at it like a sleepover. She does this all the time with friends and I don't flip out. They need to know they can speak up and tell us anything.





shales1002 said:


> Nasser is a very unique and unfortunate situation. We have to show our DDs how to speak up, and how to fight back. The silence in this situation perpetuated the problem, and allowed for further abuse. Whether it's a scum like Nassar, a neighbor, or someone else we trust our children with like a teacher, a fair compromise for us is being in the area . My DD knows I'm 5-10 minutes away at most if she ever needs anyone. I look at it like a sleepover. She does this all the time with friends and I don't flip out. They need to know they can speak up and tell us anything.


I feel like a broken record on this subject. What happened was horrific, not unfortunate and I wish it were unique.  Pedophiles put themselves in a position to get access to children. They are most successful when they are trusted adults, respected and credible.  Gaining parental trust is a crucial step in their overall plan.  Please tell me that  your 13 year olds safety is not something you’d be willing to risk for the sake of her advancement soccer.


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## Soccer43 (Dec 24, 2017)

smellycleats said:


> I feel like a broken record on this subject. What happened was horrific, not unfortunate and I wish it were unique.  Pedophiles put themselves in a position to get access to children. They are most successful when they are trusted adults, respected and credible.  Gaining parental trust is a crucial step in their overall plan.  Please tell me that  your 13 year olds safety is not something you’d be willing to risk for the sake of her advancement soccer.


I don't naively or blindly trust any coach that's why I taught my DD to be strong, independent, and assertive.  She knows how to recognize trouble and is not vulnerable to the wrong type of attention.  She also knows how to take steps to be safe and speak up when someone is out of line.   It is very clear to others that I am watching and that action will be taken if someone crosses a line.  I don't need to be a helicopter parent that teaches my DD to be weak.  If I thought the situation was unsafe she wouldn't be participating in the first place.


----------



## CaliSoccer (Dec 24, 2017)

jdiaz said:


> Yes you do. $100 plus the camp fees. What planet are you on.


You don’t pay the camp fees if your daughter makes it. It’s obvious you’re hasn't or you would know that. My point was the $100-$125 cost is nominal for what you get in return. Is this really that difficult to comprehend?


----------



## MarkM (Dec 24, 2017)

shales1002 said:


> Nasser is a very unique and unfortunate situation. We have to show our DDs how to speak up, and how to fight back. The silence in this situation perpetuated the problem, and allowed for further abuse. Whether it's a scum like Nassar, a neighbor, or someone else we trust our children with like a teacher, a fair compromise for us is being in the area . My DD knows I'm 5-10 minutes away at most if she ever needs anyone. I look at it like a sleepover. She does this all the time with friends and I don't flip out. They need to know they can speak up and tell us anything.


100% agree.  People need some common sense.  Might as well never let your DD get in a car if you really want to protect her from harm.


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## original805 (Dec 24, 2017)

anyone know where the odp 2018 pool of players can be found


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## shales1002 (Dec 24, 2017)

smellycleats said:


> I feel like a broken record on this subject. What happened was horrific, not unfortunate and I wish it were unique.  Pedophiles put themselves in a position to get access to children. They are most successful when they are trusted adults, respected and credible.  Gaining parental trust is a crucial step in their overall plan.  Please tell me that  your 13 year olds safety is not something you’d be willing to risk for the sake of her advancement soccer.


I never stated that I would put my child in what I believe to be compromising situation.  This isn't for the sake of soccer, events like these happen in the doctors office, schools, anywhere . Honestly, nothing is safe .  If I live with that constant thought , my 13 year old would be locked away in a tower . When she does travel , I'm nearby. And she travels A LOT.


----------



## jdiaz (Dec 24, 2017)

CaliSoccer said:


> You don’t pay the camp fees if your daughter makes it. It’s obvious you’re hasn't or you would know that. My point was the $100-$125 cost is nominal for what you get in return. Is this really that difficult to comprehend?


Smart ass. When they invite the pool of players you pay $100 . Right or wrong. Then if your picked. They want you to attend the camps that are how much smart are. Next when your picked to play against you pay for travel cost.  Not everything is free. The other regions that have POP take it serious.  And have sponsors to take up the cost for the kids. That' how much you know.


----------



## jdiaz (Dec 24, 2017)

CaliSoccer said:


> You don’t pay the camp fees if your daughter makes it. It’s obvious you’re hasn't or you would know that. My point was the $100-$125 cost is nominal for what you get in return. Is this really that difficult to comprehend?


The only thing that's great is the gear that nike gives them for free. The training the boys get is garbage for $100-125.


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## DefndrDad (Dec 24, 2017)

There is no training. Invite as many that may legitimately show up. Let them scrimmage together, and then collect the $125 for the 40 -50 extras. Money grab.


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## smellycleats (Dec 25, 2017)

Soccer43 said:


> I don't naively or blindly trust any coach that's why I taught my DD to be strong, independent, and assertive.  She knows how to recognize trouble and is not vulnerable to the wrong type of attention.  She also knows how to take steps to be safe and speak up when someone is out of line.   It is very clear to others that I am watching and that action will be taken if someone crosses a line.  I don't need to be a helicopter parent that teaches my DD to be weak.  If I thought the situation was unsafe she wouldn't be participating in the first place.





shales1002 said:


> I never stated that I would put my child in what I believe to be compromising situation.  This isn't for the sake of soccer, events like these happen in the doctors office, schools, anywhere . Honestly, nothing is safe .  If I live with that constant thought , my 13 year old would be locked away in a tower . When she does travel , I'm nearby. And she travels A LOT.


I’m sure you know that a minor child is never allowed to be in a  room with a doctor without a parent or a nurse present.

And to you and the other posters who have suggested that  staying in hotel is no different than a sleepover or other events at school, I don’t think you are really seeing the issue clearly.  There are so many more variables in hotel that you cannot control. I think because we are all normal well-adjusted people that are not pathological or evil, we find it hard to imagine the lengths that these people will go to to get access to kids.  We worry about it when we need to but they spend much of their time thinking about ways to get close to kids.   These guys are incredibly manipulative. Sometimes they charm the parent to gain trust and sometimes, when the relationship with the parent is shaky,  they work on the child directly.

I agree with the posters who say that a close relationship with your child, teaching your child to trust their gut, to speak up immediately when something doesn’t feel right and to never ever be  alone in a room somewhere with an adult that isn’t their family member is the best defense but please remember we are talking about 13-year-old girls. The adults in question are respected. The girls take direction from these coaches trainers etc. on an ongoing basis and they’re in a position of having to impress and gain approval from them.  All it takes is one incident where a kid doesn’t say no quickly enough and then they can be convinced that they are now a participant, they’re part of a secret and they have something to lose from telling someone. 

  Sorry for my long post.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Dec 25, 2017)

smellycleats said:


> I’m sure you know that a minor child is never allowed to be in a  room with a doctor without a parent or a nurse present.
> 
> And to you and the other posters who have suggested that  staying in hotel is no different than a sleepover or other events at school, I don’t think you are really seeing the issue clearly.  There are so many more variables in hotel that you cannot control. I think because we are all normal well-adjusted people that are not pathological or evil, we find it hard to imagine the lengths that these people will go to to get access to kids.  We worry about it when we need to but they spend much of their time thinking about ways to get close to kids.   These guys are incredibly manipulative. Sometimes they charm the parent to gain trust and sometimes, when the relationship with the parent is shaky,  they work on the child directly.
> 
> ...


I agree, all it takes is one poor decisions and a few minutes and the young lady life is changed forever.
It happened at our church. The parents let their daughter go with an old guy that had been around the church for years.


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## shales1002 (Dec 26, 2017)

smellycleats said:


> I’m sure you know that a minor child is never allowed to be in a  room with a doctor without a parent or a nurse present.
> 
> And to you and the other posters who have suggested that  staying in hotel is no different than a sleepover or other events at school, I don’t think you are really seeing the issue clearly.  There are so many more variables in hotel that you cannot control. I think because we are all normal well-adjusted people that are not pathological or evil, we find it hard to imagine the lengths that these people will go to to get access to kids.  We worry about it when we need to but they spend much of their time thinking about ways to get close to kids.   These guys are incredibly manipulative. Sometimes they charm the parent to gain trust and sometimes, when the relationship with the parent is shaky,  they work on the child directly.
> /QUOTE].


----------



## shales1002 (Dec 26, 2017)

smellycleats said:


> I’m sure you know that a minor child is never allowed to be in a  room with a doctor without a parent or a nurse present.
> 
> And to you and the other posters who have suggested that  staying in hotel is no different than a sleepover or other events at school, I don’t think you are really seeing the issue clearly.  There are so many more variables in hotel that you cannot control. I think because we are all normal well-adjusted people that are not pathological or evil, we find it hard to imagine the lengths that these people will go to to get access to kids.  We worry about it when we need to but they spend much of their time thinking about ways to get close to kids.   These guys are incredibly manipulative. Sometimes they charm the parent to gain trust and sometimes, when the relationship with the parent is shaky,  they work on the child directly.
> 
> ...



Again it all starts with conversations at home. My minor child has never been alone with a doctor or a nurse alone. Hell she doesn't even go to the restroom at practice alone. The girls go in groups. Not the parents. I have taught my DD to trust her gut and to never go anywhere alone, and most importantly be aware of your surroundings.  A lesson that's served my college aged children well when they attend parties or walk around campus.

As you have stated, these individuals will go out of their way to gain the parents' trust and to manipulate the situation. Which goes back to the point, a parent being there isn't necessarily going to stop the intentions of these sick individuals.  I've done my best to teach the signs of creepy to the best of my ability. It's a sick world, and unfortunately to many of our DD's are prey.


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## Multi Sport (Dec 26, 2017)

Fact said:


> Mace did not play with the Eagles until her senior year and while she was known when she committed, she was not known until her mom sent a video to UCLA and the coach came down to watch her play.  I believe it was her junior year and the Nomads Thanksgiving tournament with low level teams.  I might be confusing this with another player, but she was not know  and had never made ODP which shows you that the scouts are not doing their job.


She played for Threesixty... he hasn't posted since the Forum crashed.


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## gkrent (Dec 27, 2017)

did cal south ever post the final rosters?


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## G03_SD (Jan 3, 2018)

gkrent said:


> did cal south ever post the final rosters?


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## Dargle (Jan 3, 2018)

Last year, they issued a press release right after the rosters were finalized.  Don't know why they haven't issued a press release as of yet.


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## Lambchop (Jan 3, 2018)

smellycleats said:


> I’m sure you know that a minor child is never allowed to be in a  room with a doctor without a parent or a nurse present.
> 
> And to you and the other posters who have suggested that  staying in hotel is no different than a sleepover or other events at school, I don’t think you are really seeing the issue clearly.  There are so many more variables in hotel that you cannot control. I think because we are all normal well-adjusted people that are not pathological or evil, we find it hard to imagine the lengths that these people will go to to get access to kids.  We worry about it when we need to but they spend much of their time thinking about ways to get close to kids.   These guys are incredibly manipulative. Sometimes they charm the parent to gain trust and sometimes, when the relationship with the parent is shaky,  they work on the child directly.
> 
> ...


I am sure all the girls on the US gymnastics team trusted the "team" doctor and coaches as did the parents.  And how many years did abuse go on for these young women?


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## Dargle (Jan 3, 2018)

The ODP rosters for all age groups are posted:

http://www.calsouth.com/en/news-detail/254-id.209717918.html#.Wk1L8TtG2Uk


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## Soccerfan2 (Jan 3, 2018)

Can anyone who knows the player pool comment on how well the 2005 roster represents the best players in SoCal?


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## JoeBieber (Jan 3, 2018)

Soccerfan2 said:


> Can anyone who knows the player pool comment on how well the 2005 roster represents the best players in SoCal?


Heh, not at all?


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## Not_that_Serious (Jan 3, 2018)

Soccerfan2 said:


> I agree...DA is changing and will continue change ODP if not make it obsolete. DA and NTC are the new pathways. But it’s still a nice chance to play with different kids until DA or for those that opt not to do DA.


One team i know had 3 kids leave for DA team and come back to ODP with parents complaining kids regressing. Some ODP age groups, regionally, have had seen more kids go to D1 schools then DA teams in the region. Depends on coaching. If ussf put some $ into ODP we'd be better off. No reason not to have both ODP and DA. DA puts the restrictions and control is the main reason.Problem is USSF tends to only like things that make them money and try to get rid of things they have to invest in. So focus is on DA but ODP still produces some talent. Part of the problem is parents drinking the DA Is the End All Koolaid. ODP should get some influx of money but probably wont happen unless something changes on ussf admin side.


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## Not_that_Serious (Jan 3, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> One of the ODP coaches seemed pretty concerned about the ODP and its lack of players due to DA and ECNL this year.


Odp coaches i know dont worry about DA. They get the best talent they can find and coach. As mentioned, many have gone DA only to return. Also some players double dipped - dont know about this years rules about playing DA and ODP. Bad ODP coaches as well, but tend to be solid for the most part. At least in this region


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## Not_that_Serious (Jan 3, 2018)

Hank Walker said:


> While I do agree that was in the past, and it will be different moving forward, I don't agree at all with your 98% number. There are and will be plenty of good players not playing DA. There will certainly be some ECNL players that could but choose not to play DA, some good non-DA/ECNL club players that choose not to travel to play DA or prefer to play locally with classmates/friends (SDSC 03 a good example). And if it continues, ODP will still be a regional all-star team of sorts. Probably not on the level of what @MAP describes with future UCLA/Stanford/UNC and YNT players,  but still good quality.


Those schools still scouting odp and some taking those kids. Those sayimg otherwise are probably selling another product. Its a solid option for kids and parents


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## LadiesMan217 (Jan 3, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Odp coaches i know dont worry about DA. They get the best talent they can find and coach. As mentioned, many have gone DA only to return. Also some players double dipped - dont know about this years rules about playing DA and ODP. Bad ODP coaches as well, but tend to be solid for the most part. At least in this region


What region is your region?


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## Sheriff Joe (Jan 3, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Odp coaches i know dont worry about DA. They get the best talent they can find and coach. As mentioned, many have gone DA only to return. Also some players double dipped - dont know about this years rules about playing DA and ODP. Bad ODP coaches as well, but tend to be solid for the most part. At least in this region


This is the 1st year for girls DA so it will definitely have an affect, but still a good route.


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## Not_that_Serious (Jan 3, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> This is the 1st year for girls DA so it will definitely have an affect, but still a good route.


Prob why i saw girls names on last year odp rosters and thought playing both DA and ODP.


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## Sheriff Joe (Jan 3, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Prob why i saw girls names on last year odp rosters and thought playing both DA and ODP.


Maybe, but in my daughter's group it was the same list as last year.


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## Chris Knight (Jan 3, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> One team i know had 3 kids leave for DA team and come back to ODP with parents complaining kids regressing. Some ODP age groups, regionally, have had seen more kids go to D1 schools then DA teams in the region. Depends on coaching. If ussf put some $ into ODP we'd be better off. No reason not to have both ODP and DA. DA puts the restrictions and control is the main reason.Problem is USSF tends to only like things that make them money and try to get rid of things they have to invest in. So focus is on DA but ODP still produces some talent. Part of the problem is parents drinking the DA Is the End All Koolaid. ODP should get some influx of money but probably wont happen unless something changes on ussf admin side.


Sheesh --

GDA has been around for all of 4 months ... How would it have seen more kids go to D1 schools than ODP?  Doesn't seem like a reasonable comparison at this point does it?  

And who are these parents yanking kids after just a few months citing regression? ... c'mon now.

You mention that ODP "produces" talent.  I was under the impression that these are largely regional all star teams which train seasonally and just once per week together ... Wouldn't the bulk of their talent development come from their club training?

Regarding your USSF-ODP contention ... I'm fairly sure that the USSF has zero tie whatsoever to ODP -- It's a USYS program isn't it (one that is unfortunately dying a slow death nationwide I might add)?  And surely you don't really think that USSF doesn't invest in their Academy ... do ya?


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## Soccerfan2 (Jan 3, 2018)

JoeBieber said:


> Heh, not at all?


2005’s are not DA yet and CalSouth pays for travel, so why don’t the best girls do ODP down there?  Any parents of top players who did not try out on here that can comment?


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## myself (Jan 3, 2018)

Chris Knight said:


> Sheesh --
> 
> GDA has been around for all of 4 months ... How would it have seen more kids go to D1 schools than ODP?  Doesn't seem like a reasonable comparison at this point does it?
> 
> ...


>the bulk of their talent development come from their club training

I literally heard this come out of Steve Hoffman's mouth.


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## LadiesMan217 (Jan 3, 2018)

Chris Knight said:


> Sheesh --
> 
> GDA has been around for all of 4 months ... How would it have seen more kids go to D1 schools than ODP?  Doesn't seem like a reasonable comparison at this point does it?
> 
> ...


I don't recall the him/her saying GDA - there is a boys DA and a boys ODP .


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## Chris Knight (Jan 4, 2018)

You're absolutely right Ladies Man --

Silly me ... I was under the impression that I was on a _Ladies_ forum.


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## Papa's Fritas (Jan 4, 2018)

Soccerfan2 said:


> 2005’s are not DA yet and CalSouth pays for travel, so why don’t the best girls do ODP down there?  Any parents of top players who did not try out on here that can comment?


No worries. 12 year olds and couple 11 year olds. give it couple years and things will definitely change.
DA, ECNL, ODP, whatever. This is an experiment at the expense of your child and your money. Be wary and navigate carefully always
focusing on your child. Good luck at Phoenix.


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## Dargle (Jan 5, 2018)

Soccerfan2 said:


> 2005’s are not DA yet and CalSouth pays for travel, so why don’t the best girls do ODP down there?  Any parents of top players who did not try out on here that can comment?


Do you mean why would a player selected for the pool not attend?  Cal South doesn't have open tryouts like other regions where you have to pay to tryout and then a subset of those kids are invited to the pool.  Invitations to the pool are all based on scouting and there is no cost to be scouted (even coach recs are only supposed to trigger a scout to watch the kid).  As to why a kid invited to the pool wouldn't attend (assuming they aren't in DA), oftentimes it's because their family is going away during winter break and they won't be available for the regional championships anyway, let alone the pool training for selection to the 18.


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## JoeBieber (Jan 5, 2018)

Soccerfan2 said:


> 2005’s are not DA yet and CalSouth pays for travel, so why don’t the best girls do ODP down there?  Any parents of top players who did not try out on here that can comment?


I think people have gotten wise to the scheme. There is no coaching, no development. The "tryout" process is haphazard and hours and hours of straight scrimmaging in which there is little to no passing. There are no regular practices, there is travel costs (and time), and the payoff are games that mean nothing against other regional teams who have had similar experiences. At that age, there are no college scouts, so why do it if only to stroke the parent's ego that their kid was "selected"? 

Kudos to the kids on that list, they are good players, but that team is a far cry from having the best players in SoCal.


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## Sheriff Joe (Jan 5, 2018)

JoeBieber said:


> I think people have gotten wise to the scheme. There is no coaching, no development. The "tryout" process is haphazard and hours and hours of straight scrimmaging in which there is little to no passing. There are no regular practices, there is travel costs (and time), and the payoff are games that mean nothing against other regional teams who have had similar experiences. At that age, there are no college scouts, so why do it if only to stroke the parent's ego that their kid was "selected"?
> 
> Kudos to the kids on that list, they are good players, but that team is a far cry from having the best players in SoCal.


Sour Grapes?


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## outside! (Jan 5, 2018)

JoeBieber said:


> The "tryout" process is haphazard and hours and hours of straight scrimmaging in which there is little to no passing.


The last time we were involved, I was impressed with coaching. You are right on the passing. Most of the passing is between kids from the same club team, so the players there without club teammates will need to ruffle some feathers to get the ball.


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## Soccerfan2 (Jan 5, 2018)

Dargle said:


> Do you mean why would a player selected for the pool not attend?  Cal South doesn't have open tryouts like other regions where you have to pay to tryout and then a subset of those kids are invited to the pool.  Invitations to the pool are all based on scouting and there is no cost to be scouted (even coach recs are only supposed to trigger a scout to watch the kid).  As to why a kid invited to the pool wouldn't attend (assuming they aren't in DA), oftentimes it's because their family is going away during winter break and they won't be available for the regional championships anyway, let alone the pool training for selection to the 18.


Ah that’s different than for us. Thanks for explaining.


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## Soccerfan2 (Jan 5, 2018)

JoeBieber said:


> I think people have gotten wise to the scheme. There is no coaching, no development. The "tryout" process is haphazard and hours and hours of straight scrimmaging in which there is little to no passing. There are no regular practices, there is travel costs (and time), and the payoff are games that mean nothing against other regional teams who have had similar experiences. At that age, there are no college scouts, so why do it if only to stroke the parent's ego that their kid was "selected"?
> 
> Kudos to the kids on that list, they are good players, but that team is a far cry from having the best players in SoCal.


Ours is well organized, and to my pleasant surprise, my kid is learning from our coach and he does teach and coach. I had gotten different feedback from people involved last year, so it was an unexpected bonus. I’m also pretty sure I noticed 3 scouts on the sideline when I walked over to watch the CalSouth game this morning.


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## timbuck (Jan 5, 2018)

A highly organized pick up game for several days with high end players sounds like a decent deal.  Lots of people say kids in the US are overcoached and need to have more free play.


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## Not_that_Serious (Jan 6, 2018)

Chris Knight said:


> Sheesh --
> 
> GDA has been around for all of 4 months ... How would it have seen more kids go to D1 schools than ODP?  Doesn't seem like a reasonable comparison at this point does it?
> 
> ...


Mentioned in other post i was mistaken. Didnt notice topic was about the Girls side. Was refferring to boys side. What happens when you dont read and assume - given DA as mentioned has been for boys side


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## Not_that_Serious (Jan 6, 2018)

Also congratulations to the kids and coaches at the ODP West Championships. First Day had all Cal South teams going undefeated. 56G to 6GA for all 15 Games is pretty impressive.


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## Justafan (Jan 6, 2018)

JoeBieber said:


> At that age, there are no college scouts, so why do it if only to stroke the parent's ego that their kid was "selected"


Plain and simple, to put on your resume.  Use the system to your advantage, it just might get the college of your choice to open that email you send.  

Everything you say is true, but anything to distinguish yourself from the other 100 recruits can only help.  

And for the record my dd's have never been invited to odp.


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## Dargle (Jan 7, 2018)

Justafan said:


> Plain and simple, to put on your resume.  Use the system to your advantage, it just might get the college of your choice to open that email you send.
> 
> Everything you say is true, but anything to distinguish yourself from the other 100 recruits can only help.
> 
> And for the record my dd's have never been invited to odp.


At U12/U13/U14, it's true that no college scouts are watching (unless they happen to walk by between games), but it does raise your kids' profile in the eyes of his or her coaches, who sometimes take kids for granted until someone else spots them, and you get some credibility in tryouts with Academy and other clubs if you're interested in that.  This is particularly true if you're the only player from a middling local club, since there's little chance your coach/technical director pulled strings to get you on the team and there's also little chance other coaches are going to assume you must be good on club name alone.

None of that is really the reason to do it, however.  The benefit is playing with strong players, often at a different position (a lot of center midfielders end up playing outside mid or wingback on an ODP team), with different coaches and against teams from other states with different styles, some of which are good and some not, but all generally opportunities to learn.  The goalkeepers, especially, are getting college GK coaches warming them up during every training and before every game and offering technical and tactical instruction, usually for about 30-40 minutes.  Most GKs get none of that before games with their clubs.  

Is it worth the time/money (not much, but not nothing if you are traveling to watch your kid)?  It has more upside and opens more doors than guest playing at an out-of-town tournament, which lots of people do despite the cost in time and $.  You're not likely to get an invite to a USYNT camp because of ODP, but it might help you get better/get opportunities to advance.  Kids also like the feeling of pride representing something bigger than their team or club when they play for their state/region.  

Does that mean they pick the "best" players?  Out of ~7000 in an age group from San Diego to San Luis Obisbo?  Obviously, there are tons of players who are overlooked.  Even those parents who think they know who the "best" players are, base that on the best teams in the best leagues/tournaments and likely miss a kid from a middling team that isn't at national cup where they scout players.  It's not really all that different from Academy.  You have to be in the right place, at the right time, and even then you might not get selected or invited back.  Probably the biggest thing is to be humble about it, because both DA and ODP have become diluted over the years and even when they really were rare opportunities, they missed kids and made odd choices.


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## galaxydad (Jan 7, 2018)

Dargle said:


> At U12/U13/U14, it's true that no college scouts are watching (unless they happen to walk by between games), but it does raise your kids' profile in the eyes of his or her coaches, who sometimes take kids for granted until someone else spots them, and you get some credibility in tryouts with Academy and other clubs if you're interested in that.  This is particularly true if you're the only player from a middling local club, since there's little chance your coach/technical director pulled strings to get you on the team and there's also little chance other coaches are going to assume you must be good on club name alone.
> 
> None of that is really the reason to do it, however.  The benefit is playing with strong players, often at a different position (a lot of center midfielders end up playing outside mid or wingback on an ODP team), with different coaches and against teams from other states with different styles, some of which are good and some not, but all generally opportunities to learn.  The goalkeepers, especially, are getting college GK coaches warming them up during every training and before every game and offering technical and tactical instruction, usually for about 30-40 minutes.  Most GKs get none of that before games with their clubs.
> 
> ...


Well said!


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## MakeAPlay (Jan 7, 2018)

Dargle said:


> At U12/U13/U14, it's true that no college scouts are watching (unless they happen to walk by between games), but it does raise your kids' profile in the eyes of his or her coaches, who sometimes take kids for granted until someone else spots them, and you get some credibility in tryouts with Academy and other clubs if you're interested in that.  This is particularly true if you're the only player from a middling local club, since there's little chance your coach/technical director pulled strings to get you on the team and there's also little chance other coaches are going to assume you must be good on club name alone.
> 
> None of that is really the reason to do it, however.  The benefit is playing with strong players, often at a different position (a lot of center midfielders end up playing outside mid or wingback on an ODP team), with different coaches and against teams from other states with different styles, some of which are good and some not, but all generally opportunities to learn.  The goalkeepers, especially, are getting college GK coaches warming them up during every training and before every game and offering technical and tactical instruction, usually for about 30-40 minutes.  Most GKs get none of that before games with their clubs.
> 
> ...


Most of the kids in SoCal got their first call ups to YNT teams through ODP.


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## Dargle (Jan 7, 2018)

MakeAPlay said:


> Most of the kids in SoCal got their first call ups to YNT teams through ODP.


I know that, but with the advent of DA, I think it's probably fairer to acknowledge that ODP isn't quite the same pathway as it used to be, without at all denigrating the experience it continues to be.


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## MakeAPlay (Jan 7, 2018)

Dargle said:


> I know that, but with the advent of DA, I think it's probably fairer to acknowledge that ODP isn't quite the same pathway as it used to be, without at all denigrating the experience it continues to be.


That remains to be seen.  I remember hearing the same end of ODP scenario when ECNL first came on the scene.  With how uneven competition can be across gaming circuits it gives college coaches a better idea of how a player will perform against real competition.

We will see what impact GDA has.  It sucks that kids can't do both.  My player went through ODP and ECNL from start to finish and both experiences helped to shape her into the player that she is today.

Good luck to you and your player.


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## Dargle (Jan 7, 2018)

MakeAPlay said:


> That remains to be seen.  I remember hearing the same end of ODP scenario when ECNL first came on the scene.  With how uneven competition can be across gaming circuits it gives college coaches a better idea of how a player will perform against real competition.
> 
> We will see what impact GDA has.  It sucks that kids can't do both.  My player went through ODP and ECNL from start to finish and both experiences helped to shape her into the player that she is today.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


Thanks.  I'm on the boys side and we've already seen the impact in terms of players called into the pool who don't show up because of DA or later depart for DA.  So, we know the player pool has been diluted, although by the same token we know kids who stayed and did club+ODP or returned from DA voluntarily to do ODP, so neither ODP nor DA are really as good as they could be under a unified system.  I do think there is a place for ODP.  In fact, one of the problems with DA is that many kids live far away from DA clubs, have parents who work and can't drive them to practices far away 4x/week, and they can't afford DA fees + travel expenses even if they can go (and they aren't near the few full scholarship DA clubs).  Cal South's Pro+ Nike sponsorship mitigates the financial issue and the fact that ODP really only involves 3-4 training/playing periods per year helps with the travel issue.


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## Not_that_Serious (Jan 7, 2018)

Dargle said:


> Thanks.  I'm on the boys side and we've already seen the impact in terms of players called into the pool who don't show up because of DA or later depart for DA.  So, we know the player pool has been diluted, although by the same token we know kids who stayed and did club+ODP or returned from DA voluntarily to do ODP, so neither ODP nor DA are really as good as they could be under a unified system.  I do think there is a place for ODP.  In fact, one of the problems with DA is that many kids live far away from DA clubs, have parents who work and can't drive them to practices far away 4x/week, and they can't afford DA fees + travel expenses even if they can go (and they aren't near the few full scholarship DA clubs).  Cal South's Pro+ Nike sponsorship mitigates the financial issue and the fact that ODP really only involves 3-4 training/playing periods per year helps with the travel issue.


On the boys side this year i have also seen players return due to parents not happy with DA and them telling coaches the kids have "regressed". Depends on coaching. If you look at regional results, ODP teams are strong. Many/most of these kids can play DA but dont - just depends on what playwr and parents want


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