# Keeper Rivalries



## Grace T. (Mar 22, 2017)

Was hoping parents with more experience or coaches might help me with some advice.  Our team has 2 keepers and an alternate-- alternate is too good of a forward and probably won't play keeper unless absence or injury, and DS is one of the two primary keepers.  It took a while for coach to pick 2nd keeper-- he kept shuffling between some of the kids that wanted to play but finally settled on 1.  We are now 1 tournie in (for which DS got a medal for best keeper), 1 friendly, and 3 games (2 of which DS played almost the entire time in goal...one of which he only got scored on with 2 PKS, and the other one which was a bit of a disaster though he also did some things right).  DS just found out he's not starting at goal this Saturday (game might get rained out anyways)...coach explained to me he's mindful of my reservations that DS get some field experience and not specialize too much and plus we'll be away for spring break and keeper 2 may have to play the entire game in goal so needs to get some more time....I understood and am fine with it but DS, being 8, is not.

It seems a rivalry has begun to develop between the 2, though they are very friendly and like each other off the field.  Some of the team have begun to pick their favorite keepers-- some on team DS, and some on keeper 2.  Some questioned DS's performance on that game that didn't go well, or his height, though he redeemed himself in their eyes with the last 2 games.  Their styles of play are also very different.  DS used to be among the tallest, but the age shift hit him hard, and now he's right in the middle while keeper 2 is among the tallest.  DS is like a grasshopper, bouncing around and high diving to get the balls, and isn't afraid to close the angel and take the ball from a forward, and likes to punch the ball away or over the cross bar but will rarely try and catch it unless it goes right to him and struggles with the very high balls.  Keeper 2 is a traditional tall goalie...has problems getting the low shots, likes to play away from the goal, but also has very good hands and will catch the ball, though if it has a top spin, he finds it harder to slap away or punt.  Coach is happy with the combo because once the other team figures out how to beat one keeper (with DS kick it high, with Keeper 2 kick it low), he can switch it up.  But that's got the team mates arguing over now who's the better keeper and who should be put in.  What stung DS more wasn't that he wasn't starting, but that some of his teammates were saying to him "now we'll see what a real keeper can do".  I'm sure that doesn't help keeper 2 either, who isn't crazy about being goal, and who doesn't need any more pressure either.

Any advice for managing DS?  Any advice I should give him for managing his team mates and expectations?  Bit of an eye opener as well...with the other kids noticing and judging the keepers so much, it's no wonder kids don't like to play the position (keeper 2 certainly isn't dying to, and DS is just weird in that he would prefer to be in goal the entire time).  Coach has been great and has tried to remind the kids that the team is just coming together and they are all learning (the age shift hit them hard...it's only 2nd year but it's virtually an entirely new team with only 3 hanging on from the prior team)....coach has also pointed out to them that there's been a lot of errors on the field as well and that in the 10 point disaster we suffered it wasn't the keeper's fault there were a ton of one v. ones and PKs and has give DS a chance afterwards to show his teammates what he can do.


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## younothat (Mar 22, 2017)

Rivalries are good for keepers in the long run IMO but at age 8 shouldn't matter all that much, really should be learning the overall game and playing in the field as much as they can.

You would hope all the players at 8 are getting enough playing time, starting or not should be motivation to work hard all the time regardless.  Somebody is always going to be unhappy about something, young  kids just need a way to redirect that to something positive.

Being early spring I won't put too much stock in anything yet, relax see how things develop.  encourage your player to talk to his coach or mates directly about things...this will help him in the long run.

Kids can be pretty straight forward  at the young and getting along is part of being on a team,  learning how and supporting your mates to is part of the process.  Enjoy the journey and don't sweat the small stuff


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Mar 22, 2017)

I was all set to give you some fantastic advise (well, at least my advice), then I saw a couple of things that jumped out at me:
1 - they are 8 (going to be tough to be mature at that age)
2 - Sounds like your son still plays the field, perhaps the other kids would treat him different if he was the only FT keeper, 
3 - Mistakes happen all over the field, it gets magnified when a keeper makes a mistake, 
4 - It will drive you crazy if you compare the 2; they are different kids with different skills, talents, mind sets, physical attributes. 
It seems that the boys need to remember that this is a team sport.  You may do well to show him, and all the kid, this video by Geno Auriemma: 
http://www.kvue.com/sports/uconn-basketball-coachs-advice-to-young-athletes-goes-viral/424266544

My daughter is a FT keeper and has been for several years, I would be happy to talk more privately.  PM if you like.


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## gkrent (Mar 22, 2017)

Let your son know that the more field time he can get the better a keeper he will be in the long run!  Also at this age, the coach should be willing to split the time in the net equally and alternate starts so there is nothing to "rival".


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## Grace T. (Mar 22, 2017)

gkrent said:


> Let your son know that the more field time he can get the better a keeper he will be in the long run!  Also at this age, the coach should be willing to split the time in the net equally and alternate starts so there is nothing to "rival".



I'm trying, but like I said, in his mind he would rather play keeper all the time.  Think he likes the feeling he's special (e.g. different shirt, leads the defense, leads the team on handshakes) as a keeper, and he knows that as a field player he's only middling/not the star.

And yes the coach says that ultimately the 2 will split the time (but not 100% sure the time will ultimately be equal)...hasn't been so far because keeper 2 isn't up to speed yet and Sat will be his first major outing.


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## SocalSoccerMom (Mar 22, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> I'm trying, but like I said, in his mind he would rather play keeper all the time.  Think he likes the feeling he's special (e.g. different shirt, leads the defense, leads the team on handshakes) as a keeper, and he knows that as a field player he's only middling/not the star.
> 
> And yes the coach says that ultimately the 2 will split the time (but not 100% sure the time will ultimately be equal)...hasn't been so far because keeper 2 isn't up to speed yet and Sat will be his first major outing.


What level of play are we talking about here? None of our 08 boys are "up to speed" and they all share time in goal. We don't have dedicated keepers, strikers or defenders. We all rotate and it's good for the team.


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## Grace T. (Mar 22, 2017)

SocalSoccerMom said:


> What level of play are we talking about here? None of our 08 boys are "up to speed" and they all share time in goal. We don't have dedicated keepers, strikers or defenders. We all rotate and it's good for the team.


Bronze Club 2008.  Team only 2 years in existence, though practically it's a new team.  The clubs at the 2008 level all have varying degrees of specialization I notice.  Some clubs on this forum have even advertised for 2008 girls and boys "keeper needed" intending to playing the kids keeper FT.  One team (a higher level team) recruited DS with the intent of playing him at keeper FT AND paying for his training but I said no since I think he needs to develop all aspects of his game.  So far, all the teams we've faced have had dedicated keepers in our league (2 of them even playing the same keeper the entire game), though gen. they have more than one and try to play their keepers on the field.  By U9, however, most of the boys I've seen have begun to specialize somewhat (usually playing 2 or 3 positions), and keeper in particular is rough because of the specialized skills, particularly if you have kids training in Friday Academy on those skills.  Our Extras team last year tried to rotate everyone in goal (U8) and it wasn't pretty since some kids (DS in particular) had trained for the role and clearly outperformed others.  Also because of this and because of the pressure of playing keeper, some kids just don't want to do it.

As to "up to speed", for example, in my DS's first 5 minutes of his first tournament game he thought the goal box was the penalty box.  The coach kept wondering why he was so glued to the goal when in practice he tended to float out.  Coach finally figured out DS assumed that goal box (like in AYSO) was only place he could use his hands.   Coach is trying to get the new keeper to learn some things like when to punt or how to run the switch from the 2 wings before he throws him in there.  Doesn't want the keepers playing kick ball.


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## full90 (Mar 22, 2017)

Is this a joke post? They are 8? 8!!!!

Assuming it isn't, this sounds like a problem for the coach to handle. He needs to be leading them and mentoring them about not being jerks and what it means to be a good teammate. And keep saying it. And saying it. That honestly sounds like a lousy culture on a team for 8 year olds to be saying "now we will see what a real keeper can do." I get a preference or trash talk but that's cold. 

And really, at 8 (8!!!!) he should be rotating all the kids through playing goalkeeper. That will end the chatter really quickly and will also develop eerbody. 

And lastly, most top level teams carry 2 or 3 so the internal competition will be there forever and ever. Your son will have to learn how to compete and block out the kids comments (which again, the coach should be handling). You can model that for him by being really laid back about starting/playing time/wins and losses and all that.  My sons team was beast mode at that age and I DON'T REMEMBER most of the kids names and most have quit anyways. It should be fun, getting better and having fun in that order. 

Talk to the coach about the comments the kid is hearing. And talk to your kid about ignoring them, still being a good teammate and working hard. The reality of the position (if he wants to play there) is that there will be another keeper to compete with from here on out and managing the comments of the team is part of the deal. Control what he can control which is his effort and attitude and treat those guys like he wants to be treated. It's the reality of sports. Just crazy that they are 8 and are so savage to each other.


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## Grace T. (Mar 22, 2017)

full90 said:


> Is this a joke post? They are 8? 8!!!!
> 
> Assuming it isn't, this sounds like a problem for the coach to handle. He needs to be leading them and mentoring them about not being jerks and what it means to be a good teammate. And keep saying it. And saying it. That honestly sounds like a lousy culture on a team for 8 year olds to be saying "now we will see what a real keeper can do." I get a preference or trash talk but that's cold.


Really?  It didn't surprise me really at all.  Having been through the age with another boy, I find it's quite common for boys to say things that they view as honest but not really necessarily hurtful.  DS's bestie (age 9) just told a baseball team member she looked like a chipmunk....he didn't mean to put the kid down and actually meant that she looked cute (but didn't want to tell a girl that she was cute).  He got it from his coach, his mom, and his dad...felt horrible about it.  Since it's virtually a new team (with only 3 holderovers), my read is that many of the kids (having seen a couple get cut at try out) are really insecure about their friendships, positions, and their own play.  With the goalie position, it's also easier to put a loss on the keepers than on the failure of the defense (really guys...10 3 v. 1s, 2 v.1s 1 v.1 breaks in a match).

I'm frankly surprised that some of the teams we've encounter are even more specialized at goalkeeper than we are (not to mention that one team tried to recruit DS to play GK full time as an 8 year old).  Also surprised to see the adds around here saying "goalkeeper needed" for 2008s and 2007s.  My guess is that some teams are beginning to trend more to specialization.


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## chargerfan (Mar 22, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> I'm trying, but like I said, in his mind he would rather play keeper all the time.  Think he likes the feeling he's special (e.g. different shirt, leads the defense, leads the team on handshakes) as a keeper, and he knows that as a field player he's only middling/not the star.
> 
> And yes the coach says that ultimately the 2 will split the time (but not 100% sure the time will ultimately be equal)...hasn't been so far because keeper 2 isn't up to speed yet and Sat will be his first major outing.


It sounds like a good life lesson: life isn't always fair, and you're not always going to get your way. All of our kids have gone through this, and I tell mine to suck it up and then get her an ice cream cone. I'm not sure it requires much more analysis at age 8.


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## SocalSoccerMom (Mar 22, 2017)

I have a b08 boys at well, progressing to a team higher than bronze. Kid was in goal 75-100% at U8 because he had an older gk sibling, and didn't hesitate, always raised his hand to volunteer and made it really easy on the coach. He attended club gk training (even went to the olders sessions because he was better with his hands and bit more advanced).  We noticed his passion for the game, as well as skills level declined over the year.  The field players were improving on touches, vision of the game, speed etc. So this past season at U9, his time in goal reduced to less than 50%, he became a better keeper and a field player.  He also cheered for teammates who went in goal because he understood the responsibility being in that role and that made him a better player overall.
And I wouldn't put rivalry and 08 soccer players in one sentence. My older splits time and supports the other gk as she sits on the sidelines 50% of the time.


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## Bubbles (Mar 22, 2017)

Does your club have a weekly specialist keeper training that he can attend in addition to the normal outfield player training? If not, you should probably look for a club that has that, if he's serious about playing keeper in the long term. If you do have a keeper coach, that'd be a good person to talk to about your situation.

But it sounds to me like you're in pretty good situation. You've avoided the pitfall of your kid being made a full time keeper, which is great. (Keep that up for as long as possible, and don't be tempted onto some hotshot team just to win some medals - unless he decides to play an outfield position, then it _might_ better to play with the best players possible.) And you have a half-decent second keeper on the team to play there while your son is in the field. However, I agree with full90 that the coach needs to manage the situation better. Trash talking may be normal at that age, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed.

My son played on a killer u9 team, where the FT keeper was a weak link. Only one kid ever insulted him, and that kid was an insecure bully who got pushed off the team.


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## Grace T. (Mar 22, 2017)

Bubbles said:


> Does your club have a weekly specialist keeper training that he can attend in addition to the normal outfield player training? If not, you should probably look for a club that has that, if he's serious about playing keeper in the long term. If you do have a keeper coach, that'd be a good person to talk to about your situation.
> 
> .


Yes it does.  DS is the only team mate that attends (at least so far, though they can shake it up every month).  Keeper 2 and the alternate attend striker session which runs at the same time (most of the kids do strikers or don't attend academy at all since it's an additional cost for field players).  We've had some drama with the keeper coach...the club lost some teams to a rival org and the age shake up hit them hard too....they've had to rebuild some of the staff but finally have in a good keeper trainer that I really hope sticks around.  Good advice...but keeper trainer has only been in it for a bit so I hesitate to bring it to him...very nice guy though.....if it continues and he sticks around I might have a word.  DS also has a private trainer that we love that focuses exclusively on field play (to get him the touches he misses while being in goal, and as I mentioned, he's a middling field player....not the worst...just not a star).  I played keeper and having been training him on that position as well....I have my "E" and have been thinking of getting my "D".


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## GKDad65 (Mar 22, 2017)

Relax and let the kids have fun.  For crying out loud their 8 years old.


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## mirage (Mar 22, 2017)

full90 said:


> And lastly, most top level teams carry 2 or 3 so the internal competition will be there forever and ever....


To OP/Grace T.,

full90 is absolutely correct. Every coach wants at least 2 GK, especially as they get older.  Injury to GK can really be a bad day for the team.  Yes they do get hurt, and hurt quite often, especially boys.  My older kid is a forward and has had countless full speed collision with the GK over the years, inspire of trying to avoid them. Luckily he is durable goes on.

Currently on my (same) older kid's team, they carry three keepers and all are quite good. One is on U20 national team for one of the Central American teams, another is on the local university's (D3) team (and plays when he can outside of college season), and the last is committed to play in this fall back east.  They simply rotate and no one complains or have issues.  Lately, however, our national team goalie has been unavailable due to country team duties so we have the other two.

Just a snap shot of what B98s look like as they are getting ready to age out.


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## full90 (Mar 22, 2017)

So your 8 year old has club practice, a keeper trainer and then a personal (non keeper) trainer as well? And then you train him also? 
And he's 8. Got it. Say no more.


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## Grace T. (Mar 22, 2017)

full90 said:


> So your 8 year old has club practice, a keeper trainer and then a personal (non keeper) trainer as well? And then you train him also?
> And he's 8. Got it. Say no more.


Your comment is exactly one of the reason parents don't want their kids playing keeper (along risk of injury, and the pressure of failure on the kid).  It's a no win situation.  If he doesn't get in the field practice, then he's "falling behind" and "specializing too early" and where might he be if he doesn't grow into the role or finds he doesn't like it when he hits puberty.  If he takes the extra practice, he is doing too much (which is really 2 hours of keeper, 3 hours of team, and 1 hour of field private a week)...in reality it's like doing 2 sports at once since the training is so different.  If the coach rotates everyone at keeper, then he forces kids that don't want to play it into the role, into that kid being blamed when they commit an error (magnified in the keeper spot) and the coach is blamed for the loss (why didn't you put x in?).  If he specializes, well then we get the ads on these forums asking for FT keepers for 2008s and 2007s.  There really is no perfect answer as long as kids that young are playing with keepers (recommendations a few years back for that reason suggested maybe not adding keepers until u11, but people screamed then soccer USA would be underprepared in unrealistic situations).

For my druthers, I rather he didn't play keeper.  Having been one, I know what goes into the role and it isn't easy.  If he didn't enjoy it and want to drop it, I'd be the first to do a happy dance.  He would then probably just do the 3 hrs of team practice and either striker or defender academy for one hr on Fridays.  OS gave up soccer for the martial arts and track-- didn't shed a tear and DH rather the kids play football anyways.


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## SoCal GK mom (Mar 22, 2017)

This thread is highlighting the fact that we need a separate GK forum. There are unique issues with there position and we could all stand to learn from each other.

I have a dedicated GK daughter and she selected the position when she was about 9. But she didn't become fully dedicated to the position until age 11. Give your son time to keep playing the field- he will be a better keeper in the long run if he keeps working on footwork, agility, and game sense.


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## chargerfan (Mar 23, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Your comment is exactly one of the reason parents don't want their kids playing keeper (along risk of injury, and the pressure of failure on the kid).  It's a no win situation.  If he doesn't get in the field practice, then he's "falling behind" and "specializing too early" and where might he be if he doesn't grow into the role or finds he doesn't like it when he hits puberty.  If he takes the extra practice, he is doing too much (which is really 2 hours of keeper, 3 hours of team, and 1 hour of field private a week)...in reality it's like doing 2 sports at once since the training is so different.  If the coach rotates everyone at keeper, then he forces kids that don't want to play it into the role, into that kid being blamed when they commit an error (magnified in the keeper spot) and the coach is blamed for the loss (why didn't you put x in?).  If he specializes, well then we get the ads on these forums asking for FT keepers for 2008s and 2007s.  There really is no perfect answer as long as kids that young are playing with keepers (recommendations a few years back for that reason suggested maybe not adding keepers until u11, but people screamed then soccer USA would be underprepared in unrealistic situations).
> 
> For my druthers, I rather he didn't play keeper.  Having been one, I know what goes into the role and it isn't easy.  If he didn't enjoy it and want to drop it, I'd be the first to do a happy dance.  He would then probably just do the 3 hrs of team practice and either striker or defender academy for one hr on Fridays.  OS gave up soccer for the martial arts and track-- didn't shed a tear and DH rather the kids play football anyways.


We used 2-3 keepers at u8,u9. They all made dumb mistakes, just like my daughter made dumb mistakes in defense. Just like the forward missed open goals. Nobody cared. They were 8.


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## socalkdg (Mar 24, 2017)

I've never once had a girl or parent blame my kid for any goal, even if she screws up.  Wouldn't want to be on a team that would have this occur.   If your team starts choosing sides of who should play or not, this could become the bigger problem.    As mentioned every kid makes mistakes, adults make mistakes. I see more missed shots than I see goals allowed by bad plays by a keeper, counts the same either way.  Keep playing as many positions as you can, make sure your kid is on the right team, make sure this doesn't become a team problem, and remember your kid could change their mind 2-3 times between now and age 14.


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## pewpew (Mar 24, 2017)

The ball gets past 10 other girls before the GK. Take it a step further and create a 3, 2, or 1v1 with a skilled striker and the odds are NOT in the keeper's favor. Totally agree with the above post that you have to score to win.  All the parents get the "fog of war" mentality when it comes to remembering all the shots on goal their kid and others missed but are sometimes quick to point out the one goal my kid didn't stop...regardless if it was a great goal or one the keeper should've or could've maybe stopped.


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## pewpew (Mar 24, 2017)

I usually follow their backhanded comment with one of my own about how the team missed the goal 6-7 times. I've come to find its rare in itself, but the few who do say something are the same parents of the kid who missed multiple chances to score. Defender parents are less likely to make any comments.  Just my observation. Overall the majority are always supportive, as are the players. I guess we've been lucky  for the most part to have had good players and parents. Coaches...not always the case. 
My DD's old trainer used to say "goalkeepers can't win the game but they can sure save one." I can't remember how many times my DD saved a game or minimized the damage to a 0-1 or 0-2 loss when we couldn't find the back of the net if we used Google maps.


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## jdiaz (Mar 24, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Was hoping parents with more experience or coaches might help me with some advice.  Our team has 2 keepers and an alternate-- alternate is too good of a forward and probably won't play keeper unless absence or injury, and DS is one of the two primary keepers.  It took a while for coach to pick 2nd keeper-- he kept shuffling between some of the kids that wanted to play but finally settled on 1.  We are now 1 tournie in (for which DS got a medal for best keeper), 1 friendly, and 3 games (2 of which DS played almost the entire time in goal...one of which he only got scored on with 2 PKS, and the other one which was a bit of a disaster though he also did some things right).  DS just found out he's not starting at goal this Saturday (game might get rained out anyways)...coach explained to me he's mindful of my reservations that DS get some field experience and not specialize too much and plus we'll be away for spring break and keeper 2 may have to play the entire game in goal so needs to get some more time....I understood and am fine with it but DS, being 8, is not.
> 
> It seems a rivalry has begun to develop between the 2, though they are very friendly and like each other off the field.  Some of the team have begun to pick their favorite keepers-- some on team DS, and some on keeper 2.  Some questioned DS's performance on that game that didn't go well, or his height, though he redeemed himself in their eyes with the last 2 games.  Their styles of play are also very different.  DS used to be among the tallest, but the age shift hit him hard, and now he's right in the middle while keeper 2 is among the tallest.  DS is like a grasshopper, bouncing around and high diving to get the balls, and isn't afraid to close the angel and take the ball from a forward, and likes to punch the ball away or over the cross bar but will rarely try and catch it unless it goes right to him and struggles with the very high balls.  Keeper 2 is a traditional tall goalie...has problems getting the low shots, likes to play away from the goal, but also has very good hands and will catch the ball, though if it has a top spin, he finds it harder to slap away or punt.  Coach is happy with the combo because once the other team figures out how to beat one keeper (with DS kick it high, with Keeper 2 kick it low), he can switch it up.  But that's got the team mates arguing over now who's the better keeper and who should be put in.  What stung DS more wasn't that he wasn't starting, but that some of his teammates were saying to him "now we'll see what a real keeper can do".  I'm sure that doesn't help keeper 2 either, who isn't crazy about being goal, and who doesn't need any more pressure either.
> 
> Any advice for managing DS?  Any advice I should give him for managing his team mates and expectations?  Bit of an eye opener as well...with the other kids noticing and judging the keepers so much, it's no wonder kids don't like to play the position (keeper 2 certainly isn't dying to, and DS is just weird in that he would prefer to be in goal the entire time).  Coach has been great and has tried to remind the kids that the team is just coming together and they are all learning (the age shift hit them hard...it's only 2nd year but it's virtually an entirely new team with only 3 hanging on from the prior team)....coach has also pointed out to them that there's been a lot of errors on the field as well and that in the 10 point disaster we suffered it wasn't the keeper's fault there were a ton of one v. ones and PKs and has give DS a chance afterwards to show his teammates what he can do.


Alot of stupid coaches go for hight in the goal. My son is a keeper.  Height doesn't mean better. What you need to do have your water watch keeper videos. Make your kid is over all a whole keeper.  Knows how to handle the back move his players when out of position.  And make sure he can play with his feet. That's a plus.


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## Grace T. (Mar 24, 2017)

jdiaz said:


> Alot of stupid coaches go for hight in the goal. My son is a keeper.  Height doesn't mean better. What you need to do have your water watch keeper videos. Make your kid is over all a whole keeper.  Knows how to handle the back move his players when out of position.  And make sure he can play with his feet. That's a plus.


There's a school out there that says the keeper needs to be tall, and being big at least helps with the collisions.  One of the reason coach likes him and others have tried to recruit him is that he is a (mostly) whole keeper.  He's good with the ground shots, can high dive, closes the angle fearlessly, has a good low dive, also uses his feet, and can distribute with the possession style play they have in mind.  His left is still a little weak but it's coming.  He'd rather punch than catch but that's coming.  His weak spot is the high balls (has had a few PKs and DKs sail over his head in otherwise scoreless games).  The parents and coaches have been great too...as to the parents, they are mostly relieved their kids don't have to play keeper since most have striker dreams.  He's sick so looks like he might have to sit out this weekend which will be interesting...to his credit he's a little nervous how he'll compare but he's cheering for the others (including our alternate) to be ready.


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## jdiaz (Mar 24, 2017)

Your needs to feel comfortable with himself first. Remember he has the view of the game coming to him. Must be vocal to to his teammates that will listen to him. To play out of the back you must be good with your feet. Every ball to the keeper doesn't have to booted.  Invest in a good goalkeeper training. Their so many guys that they think their a goalkeeper trainer. There's a lot of fakes.


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