# CIF decision



## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

No politics please....
https://cifss.org/news/july-20-2020-update-and-2020-21-sports-calendars/


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## Mosafie (Jul 20, 2020)

Multi sport athletes will have to choose. Only two sports can be played with just two seasons.

Some small schools that rely on multi sport athletes wont field a lot of teams.


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## Soccerbabe3 (Jul 20, 2020)

Wow...thanks for sharing. While this isn't ideal, it would give kids a chance to play. Spring soccer season would be affected. Would kids playing club soccer start in Sept and play through March?


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## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

Girls soccer is later and might have some serious conflicts with ECNL.  I know what my dd will pick.


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## RedDevilDad (Jul 20, 2020)

Mosafie said:


> Multi sport athletes will have to choose. Only two sports can be played with just two seasons.
> 
> Some small schools that rely on multi sport athletes wont field a lot of teams.


Great point.  Unfortunate.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

Soccerbabe3 said:


> Wow...thanks for sharing. While this isn't ideal, it would give kids a chance to play. Spring soccer season would be affected. Would kids playing club soccer start in Sept and play through March?


This season all CIF rules regarding playing club at the same time as HS will be suspended. This means technically kids can play both, just don't know how it will be possible to do it at the same time. Too much training and games.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> This season all CIF rules regarding playing club at the same time as HS will be suspended. This means technically kids can play both, just don't know how it will be possible to do it at the same time. Too much training and games.


Unless they work together for once


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## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

BOYS AND GIRLS SOCCER 
First Contest Date – Saturday, February 27, 2021 
SOP Date – Saturday, April 3, 2021 (36 days) 
Last League Contest – Thursday, May 6, 2021 
Last Allowable Contest – Saturday, May 8, 2021 (71 days) 
CIF Southern Section Championship Finals – Friday/Saturday, May 28/May 29, 
2021 CIF Southern Regional Finals – Saturday, June 5, 2021


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## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Unless they work together for once


don't be silly


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## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

The other issue will be how Boys/Girls Soccer will be using fields along with Boys/Girls Lacrosse and Boy/Girls Track....


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## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> The other issue will be how Boys/Girls Soccer will be using fields along with Boys/Girls Lacrosse and Boy/Girls Track....


Online school is easy now.  Fields are open all day.  Practice 8am?


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## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Online school is easy now.  Fields are open all day.  Practice 8am?


that would be nice, but my assumption would be that all sports can only resume with schools resuming in person classes.


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## espola (Jul 20, 2020)

Soccerbabe3 said:


> Wow...thanks for sharing. While this isn't ideal, it would give kids a chance to play. Spring soccer season would be affected. Would kids playing club soccer start in Sept and play through March?


Dreamer.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)




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## Grace T. (Jul 20, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> This season all CIF rules regarding playing club at the same time as HS will be suspended. This means technically kids can play both, just don't know how it will be possible to do it at the same time. Too much training and games.


Not to mention field space being an issue, particularly if football training is ongoing and how much of the fields they occupy when it comes to soccer and lacrosse.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Not to mention field space being an issue, particularly if football training is ongoing and how much of the fields they occupy when it comes to soccer and lacrosse.


We need to change our schedules and way of life.  I used to argue with a minister who said church is at 10am and you better have your cheeks in the seats every Sunday or else.  I swear I told this guy everyday should be church and whose idea was it to make it at 10am every Sunday?  My point in all this is we ALL need to work together and find ways to make this happen.  School can be at night and sports can be all day?  Online school is easy to do.  These are just ideas that are floating in my brain.  I like what CIF put together.  Exercise and social life is essential to one's little life.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> We need to change our schedules and way of life.  I used to argue with a minister who said church is at 10am and you better have your cheeks in the seats every Sunday or else.  I swear I told this guy everyday should be church and whose idea was it to make it at 10am every Sunday?  My point in all this is we ALL need to work together and find ways to make this happen.  School can be at night and sports can be all day?  Online school is easy to do.  These are just ideas that are floating in my brain.  I like what CIF put together.  Exercise and social life is essential to one's little life.


how about those coaches that coach both HS and club? They'll be real busy.....


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## Own Goal (Jul 20, 2020)

Mosafie said:


> Multi sport athletes will have to choose. Only two sports can be played with just two seasons.
> 
> Some small schools that rely on multi sport athletes wont field a lot of teams.


I don't know about other sections, but I'm pretty sure CIF-SDS allows kids to play two sports during the same season of sport, but there are limits on the total number of hours student athletes can spend practicing and competing each week. It would have to be a coordinated effort by the athlete and coaches. Obviously it's not ideal, but it is possible.


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## Mic Nificent (Jul 20, 2020)

Might just look into homeschooling this year and get the tax credit and stipend. Has anyone done this in the past? She can focus on club soccer (If club soccer resumes) and use the stipend for a personal trainer/coach. Seems like kids may have to choose HS or club? Doing both at the same time is a quick remedy for injuries or burnout. With multiple kids too. IDK


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## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

Mic Nificent said:


> Might just look into homeschooling this year and get the tax credit and stipend. Has anyone done this in the past? She can focus on club soccer (If club soccer resumes) and use the stipend for a personal trainer/coach. Seems like kids may have to choose HS or club? Doing both at the same time is a quick remedy for injuries or burnout. With multiple kids too. IDK


I did it before and my dd hated it....lol.  Only one semester in 8th grade before High School.  No money this year I was told so you have to pay your own way.


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## Futbol30 (Jul 20, 2020)

So I can only assume this means no club soccer, at least not until Spring?  Is that a pretty good assumption? 
ECNL spring may be a go? At this point, I've already accepted no season as have all my children. Our attitude is go with the flow and train and be ready regardless of the decision for club.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

Futbol30 said:


> So I can only assume this means no club soccer, at least not until Spring?  Is that a pretty good assumption?
> ECNL spring may be a go? At this point, I've already accepted no season as have all my children. Our attitude is go with the flow and train and be ready regardless of the decision for club.


I would agree with no games until Spring. Just hope at least normal training can resume some time in Fall


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## kickingandscreaming (Jul 20, 2020)

Mic Nificent said:


> Might just look into homeschooling this year and get the tax credit and stipend. Has anyone done this in the past? She can focus on club soccer (If club soccer resumes) and use the stipend for a personal trainer/coach. Seems like kids may have to choose HS or club? Doing both at the same time is a quick remedy for injuries or burnout. With multiple kids too. IDK


I heard same as EJ about the money in Cali.

It's not difficult to set up and run yourself. File a Private School Affidavit - about a 2 page "application" - not a big deal. Primary things to keep in mind:
- If your child has any desire to play soccer at a DI or DII, make sure she fulfills the 16 core course requirement by the NCAA. That means the specific institution offering the course *must have that course approved by the NCAA for it to count*. Generally, online schools identify if a course fulfills this requirement.
- UC schools have a similar requirement AND a *different approval process*. So, a course may fulfill requirements for UC but not NCAA or NCAA and not UC.
- Community Colleges typically offer free tuition to high school students. This is a good way to get a high quality class without shelling out $.

If you want more information, PM me and I'd be happy to discuss it with you.


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## Futbol30 (Jul 20, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I would agree with no games until Spring. Just hope at least normal training can resume some time in Fall


Yeah, it will be interesting to see how the clubs handle the training. With limited fields, etc. The zoom and the "camps" can only last so long.. hopefully we will get some clarity from the state regarding training, Best of luck to all the players and the HS athletes as well on the board


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## SoccerFan (Jul 20, 2020)

California has announced that it will push high school sports back to January, 2021.





__





						Where the start of high school sports stands in all 50 states amid pandemic - MaxPreps
					

MaxPreps News - Alaska cancels all state fall championships; Minnesota flips football and volleyball back to the fall; Michigan, Delaware also reverse fields.




					www.maxpreps.com


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## Grace T. (Jul 20, 2020)

Mic Nificent said:


> Might just look into homeschooling this year and get the tax credit and stipend. Has anyone done this in the past? She can focus on club soccer (If club soccer resumes) and use the stipend for a personal trainer/coach. Seems like kids may have to choose HS or club? Doing both at the same time is a quick remedy for injuries or burnout. With multiple kids too. IDK


IIRC the governor eliminated the tax credit for new home school.  To prevent too many people fleeing the public schools.  There are some new rules on certificate and cooperatives too, to dissuade people


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## dad4 (Jul 20, 2020)

WSJ reported today they AstraZenica is planning to have about half of the planned vaccine doses out by end of year.  If it is proportional, US share of the early doses would cover 150 million people.  

So that Jan 2021 start date may work out.

Still need stage 3 results and all that, but this is the best news I’ve seen in months.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

dad4 said:


> WSJ reported today they AstraZenica is planning to have about half of the planned vaccine doses out by end of year.  If it is proportional, US share of the early doses would cover 150 million people.
> 
> So that Jan 2021 start date may work out.
> 
> Still need stage 3 results and all that, but this is the best news I’ve seen in months.


at least CIF is the only organization who came out with the actual plan.


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## Grace T. (Jul 20, 2020)

dad4 said:


> WSJ reported today they AstraZenica is planning to have about half of the planned vaccine doses out by end of year.  If it is proportional, US share of the early doses would cover 150 million people.
> 
> So that Jan 2021 start date may work out.
> 
> Still need stage 3 results and all that, but this is the best news I’ve seen in months.


Doubt children will be first in line for it, particularly given our governors recent actions.  For the younger kids they also have to be pediatric doses which require additional testing.


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## timbuck (Jul 20, 2020)

I know not everyone is happy with this. But isn't this about what we expected? And probably the best possible outcome?
If you are a multi-sport HS athlete with your sports all taking place in the same season -  It will be a tough decision. 
For club soccer players -  now that CIF will allow you to play club and hs sports at the same time -  it will be very interesting.
I hope that clubs and high schools can work something out that is in the best interest of the players.  (IE - lets not have club practice on Tuesday and Thursday when HS games take place.  Let's not make kids run from HS practice straight to club practice and kill them with hardcore fitness.  Maybe even space out club games to play every other weekend so players can have some time to recover.  Maybe we'll even see some college coaches making the rounds of HS games to take the pressure of of clubs to find showcases as soon as the college dark period ends)


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## ToonArmy (Jul 20, 2020)

What will ECNL do or is it up to the clubs to decide how to manage doing both. ECNL spring league starts at same time


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## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

ToonArmy said:


> What will ECNL do or is it up to the clubs to decide how to manage doing both. ECNL spring league starts at same time


Why would CIF care what ECNL does? CIF came out with a plan of action, now lets see what ECNL will come up with.


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## notintheface (Jul 20, 2020)

IMO the kids will have to choose between club and HS. Otherwise they'll be doing 5+ days of training and games per week-- that's not realistic to maintain and we will see a huge number of injuries. Maybe we'll see some roster expansion at the HS level to accommodate this. (Start teaching your kids about "load management" now, I guess?)

In reading the guidance from the governor's office, the moment a 1000-person high school hits 50 cases within 2 weeks, the school has to close to in-person instruction and can only open 2 weeks later. Presumably that means athletics as well. Do these games wind up getting postponed? Forfeited? Do the kids from the affected high school then wind up having to self-quarantine, and then miss club games?

I mean, good on CIF to provide this guidance-- it's definitely needed.


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## jpeter (Jul 20, 2020)

ToonArmy said:


> What will ECNL do or is it up to the clubs to decide how to manage doing both. ECNL spring league starts at same time


ECNL had a spring heavy schedule to begin with so there going to have to make some big adjustment.  With the fall pushed back or not going some decision to be made for sure.

Field availability is going to be one  of the biggest hurdle for soccer at the beginning with football still going from Dec 14 to March 12, playoffs until 4/16 and soccer staring practice in February with first games 2/27 through 5/6 and playoffs until 6/5.

Spring tournaments and State/national cup going to have to adjust also would think.


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## Traore (Jul 20, 2020)

Futbol30 said:


> So I can only assume this means no club soccer, at least not until Spring?  Is that a pretty good assumption?
> ECNL spring may be a go? At this point, I've already accepted no season as have all my children. Our attitude is go with the flow and train and be ready regardless of the decision for club.


I can see the governor's order shutting down all youth sports, including club soccer. until the Spring  But why would the CIF calendar affect ECNL or Cal South's schedules?

Starting club soccer in the Spring will be especially tricky this year.  Different school sports will already be competing for limited fields.   Soccer, lacrosse, track,  baseball will all play between February and June.   Soccer soccer clubs without their own fields will have a hard time booking fields at schools.


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## espola (Jul 20, 2020)

notintheface said:


> IMO the kids will have to choose between club and HS. Otherwise they'll be doing 5+ days of training and games per week-- that's not realistic to maintain and we will see a huge number of injuries. Maybe we'll see some roster expansion at the HS level to accommodate this. (Start teaching your kids about "load management" now, I guess?)
> 
> In reading the guidance from the governor's office, the moment a 1000-person high school hits 50 cases within 2 weeks, the school has to close to in-person instruction and can only open 2 weeks later. Presumably that means athletics as well. Do these games wind up getting postponed? Forfeited? Do the kids from the affected high school then wind up having to self-quarantine, and then miss club games?
> 
> I mean, good on CIF to provide this guidance-- it's definitely needed.


HS teams have done 5-6 days a week of practices and games as long as I can remember.


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## Paul Spacey (Jul 20, 2020)

It's always wise to have a plan of action but let's not get carried away with too much planning or worrying about club vs HS just yet. We have no idea what is going to happen in the coming months and despite any organization or governing body laying out an 'action plan', it's all just hypothetical for now. 

You would hope that coaches and administrators from clubs and high schools will be able to work together sensibly with the absolute priority being the safety and fitness (specifically, avoiding injuries) of athletes. Whether this will actually happen if/when the time comes is another story. 

As each day passes, it seems clearer than any type of club soccer season is going to be difficult unless things change/improve fairly quickly. Without sending yet another thread down a political route, my feeling is that nothing is going to change until at least after the election anyway; this whole situation has become way too political for people to sit around a table (or on zoom) and figure out the best solution for young athletes and students.


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## Traore (Jul 20, 2020)

HS games here are Wednesday and Friday.  Club league games are on Saturday.  State Cup games and makeup games on Sunday.  That doesn't leave a lot of time for practices for either HS or club.


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## timbuck (Jul 20, 2020)

We will definitely see some teams practicing under the lights.  At 5am before the comes up.  And at 9pm after the football team is done with practice.


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## notintheface (Jul 20, 2020)

espola said:


> HS teams have done 5-6 days a week of practices and games as long as I can remember.


You've got some hardcore coaches. Local HS team here is run by a club coach and does 2 sessions per week plus a game. (I guess it makes sense-- they want to keep these kids from getting injured in the run-up to State Cup)


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## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

wait until track athletes or baseball players will not chose soccer and all ECNL coaches (except ones coaching in private schools) will tell their players to not play HS


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## espola (Jul 20, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> It's always wise to have a plan of action but let's not get carried away with too much planning or worrying about club vs HS just yet. We have no idea what is going to happen in the coming months and despite any organization or governing body laying out an 'action plan', it's all just hypothetical for now.
> 
> You would hope that coaches and administrators from clubs and high schools will be able to work together sensibly with the absolute priority being the safety and fitness (specifically, avoiding injuries) of athletes. Whether this will actually happen if/when the time comes is another story.
> 
> As each day passes, it seems clearer than any type of club soccer season is going to be difficult unless things change/improve fairly quickly. Without sending yet another thread down a political route, my feeling is that nothing is going to change until at least after the election anyway; this whole situation has become way too political for people to sit around a table (or on zoom) and figure out the best solution for young athletes and students.


I can see a possibility where clubs start practicing and playing January or so, and once HS practices and games start in March club soccer activity would be limited to weekend tournaments scheduled around HS Section and Region tournaments.  There will inevitably be some friction, and I have no way to predict how every coach/player/parent conflict will be resolved.  I hope that few will take the "prioritize play for us or be cut" attitude - this is not a permanent situation.


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## twoclubpapa (Jul 20, 2020)

I know there are a number of Orange County HS soccer refs that also work lacrosse.  With the two seasons now running simultaneously referee availability may pose a challenge to assigners needing to fill all the game slots.  Also, early spring season HS tournament games on Saturdays and club soccer will be competing for referee assignments if the fall club season is moved to spring.

I think spring club soccer will also have significant challenges finding field permits for practices and games given the increased use of high school facilities.


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## Paul Spacey (Jul 20, 2020)

Coaches. Refs. Permits. Fields. Boards. Egos.

Balancing these things is hard enough during a 'normal' season so it's tough to see how it will possibly work with multiple sports (and hs/club) condensed into the same time frame. Add $'s into the mix and suddenly it seems like an almost impossible situation.

Like I said, it's hypothetical right now but realistically it looks difficult (even being optimistic and positive) to see how this plays out without ensuing chaos and injuries all over the place. Maybe all of us will take some time over the coming months to figure out how we can truly work together for the benefit of our athletes (in all sports) moving forward into the future; often you need a significant issue/event to push or force reflection and change.


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## timbuck (Jul 20, 2020)

Imagine all of those ECNL clubs thinking "Sweet!! WE can now get our hands on  those DA players we've been drooling over.  We can get them excited because they can also play high school now."
And today they are thinking "SH&T.  How am I going to continue to coach HS and work for this ECNL club?"


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## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

twoclubpapa said:


> I know there are a number of Orange County HS soccer refs that also work lacrosse.  With the two seasons now running simultaneously referee availability may pose a challenge to assigners needing to fill all the game slots.  Also, early spring season HS tournament games on Saturdays and club soccer will be competing for referee assignments if the fall club season is moved to spring.
> 
> I think spring club soccer will also have significant challenges finding field permits for practices and games given the increased use of high school facilities.


I don't think soccer and lacrosse will have any conflicts for refs since they can't be scheduled at the same time. It will have to be one after another, so all those dual sports refs will be happy to do  both.


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## dk_b (Jul 20, 2020)

Keep in mind that Spring high school soccer is the norm for about half the country (only 6 states (I think; it may be 5) play in the winter and the balance in fall - and they will be facing similar issues) so ECNL and other leagues/platforms already deal with winter club scheduling.  I would HOPE that club soccer in CA would simply move the traditional HS break from winter to spring.

Having the kids play both HS and club simultaneously is idiocy.  No high level soccer would play that volume of games (4 or 5 per week) for a 2 to 3 month period.  The fatigue of overused hamstrings put ACLs at an even greater risk of tears.  I understand the "why" behind CIF's policy but I do hope smart people from the club scene are working on a schedule that does not put the kids at increased risk.


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## dk_b (Jul 20, 2020)

dk_b said:


> Keep in mind that Spring high school soccer is the norm for about half the country (only 6 states (I think; it may be 5) play in the winter and the balance in fall - and they will be facing similar issues) so ECNL and other leagues/platforms already deal with winter club scheduling.  I would HOPE that club soccer in CA would simply move the traditional HS break from winter to spring.
> 
> Having the kids play both HS and club simultaneously is idiocy.  No high level soccer would play that volume of games (4 or 5 per week) for a 2 to 3 month period.  The fatigue of overused hamstrings put ACLs at an even greater risk of tears.  I understand the "why" behind CIF's policy but I do hope smart people from the club scene are working on a schedule that does not put the kids at increased risk.


Tried to edit with proper #s:  26 states typically play HS soccer in the fall (incl. DC and AZ); 6 play in winter (incl. AZ); and 20 play in spring.


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## jpeter (Jul 20, 2020)

dk_b said:


> Keep in mind that Spring high school soccer is the norm for about half the country (only 6 states (I think; it may be 5) play in the winter and the balance in fall - and they will be facing similar issues) so ECNL and other leagues/platforms already deal with winter club scheduling.  I would HOPE that club soccer in CA would simply move the traditional HS break from winter to spring.
> 
> Having the kids play both HS and club simultaneously is idiocy.  No high level soccer would play that volume of games (4 or 5 per week) for a 2 to 3 month period.  The fatigue of overused hamstrings put ACLs at an even greater risk of tears.  I understand the "why" behind CIF's policy but I do hope smart people from the club scene are working on a schedule that does not put the kids at increased risk.


Crazy when you think about that adults can only play 1-2 per week with 3-5 day gaps and HS kids who are adult size or just about fully grown can play 3x a week, every other day, 24 games during a 8 weeks span during HS, etc.   Nuts if you throw in club, tournament play into the mix at the same time.  Changing gears or mindsets going back and forth between the two I dunno if that works all that well either?


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## futboldad1 (Jul 20, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Why would CIF care what ECNL does? CIF came out with a plan of action, now lets see what ECNL will come up with.


.....because HS soccer ain't winning too many of "what does the kid choose" battles versus ECNL......


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## dk_b (Jul 20, 2020)

jpeter said:


> Crazy when you think about that adults can only play 1-2 per week with 3-5 day gaps and HS kids who are adult size or just about fully grown can play 3x a week, every other day, 24 games during a 8 weeks span during HS, etc.   Nuts if you throw in club, tournament play into the mix at the same time.  Changing gears or mindsets going back and forth between the two I dunno if that works all that well either?


I have a kid who just finished HS and two getting started.  The pressure that even the heavily-recruited athlete faces is enormous and if a parents are going through the HS ride with their first child - not knowing how to contextualize the season, not knowing how much to believe or shut out a DOC or club coach, how much to prioritize a specific show-case this one very odd academic year . . . Kids (and parents) are going to feel a lot pressure to do too much.

If the club season remains in spring and a full club/full HS season are played simultaneously (with similar participation rates), I predict the ACL tear rate for the 14 to 18 yo set will be very, VERY high in late spring/early summer.  My older kid was a GK and I'd be less worried about her playing that # of games (more worried about an increased concussion risk b/c of so many more live-action minutes) but my younger two are field players.  It will be tough to tell them - and their coach - "no.  That's too much" b/c it always feels like ONE MORE GAME is OK or a weekend with restricted minutes but that is how fatigue builds.


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## kickingandscreaming (Jul 20, 2020)

dk_b said:


> If the club season remains in spring and a full club/full HS season are played simultaneously (with similar participation rates), I predict the ACL tear rate for the 14 to 18 yo set will be very, VERY high in late spring/early summer.  My older kid was a GK and I'd be less worried about her playing that # of games (more worried about an increased concussion risk b/c of so many more live-action minutes) but my younger two are field players.  It will be tough to tell them - and their coach - "no.  That's too much" b/c it always feels like ONE MORE GAME is OK or a weekend with restricted minutes but that is how fatigue builds.


Agree. Limiting minutes in games played over a period of days was the one of the few things I thought DA did a better job of than the previous environment.


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## futboldad1 (Jul 20, 2020)

notintheface said:


> You've got some hardcore coaches. Local HS team here is run by a club coach and does 2 sessions per week plus a game. (I guess it makes sense-- they want to keep these kids from getting injured in the run-up to State Cup)


"Hardcore" is a kid way to say dumbass HS coaches who whack super heavy schedules on kids...... 2-3 sessions plus a game is far more sensible for the injury reasons you stated..... some HS coaches do SIX days per week..... anything to try and squeak out those wins


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## jpeter (Jul 20, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Agree. Limiting minutes in games played over a period of days was the one of the few things I thought DA did a better job of than the previous environment.


What happens is "key" players get too many minutes inevitably, no matter how hard they try coaches want to win more than sub.

Since Socal HS soccer now is:
February 27, last league games on 5/6/21 and ends on June 5th at the regional finals.

That schedule is tight,  not sure any traditional break would work. Overlap is inevitable, adjustments by all parties will be needed.

ECNL used fall and later spring to fit games in but with spring HS packed until june and the other sports going at the same time, going to need to adjust.


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## timbuck (Jul 20, 2020)

jpeter said:


> What happens is "key" players get too many minutes inevitably, no matter how hard they try coaches want to win more than sub.
> 
> Since Socal HS soccer now is:
> February 27, last league games on 5/6/21 and ends on June 5th at the regional finals.
> ...


Look for Christmas and New Years Day showcases to squeeze in games.


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## Mosafie (Jul 21, 2020)

Own Goal said:


> I don't know about other sections, but I'm pretty sure CIF-SDS allows kids to play two sports during the same season of sport, but there are limits on the total number of hours student athletes can spend practicing and competing each week. It would have to be a coordinated effort by the athlete and coaches. Obviously it's not ideal, but it is possible.


Allow and can when games and practice overlap are not easy. Not to mention the additional academic time constraints.


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## Grace T. (Jul 21, 2020)

Mosafie said:


> Allow and can when games and practice overlap are not easy. Not to mention the additional academic time constraints.


Assuming we do reopen up in time for a high school season, the other thing to consider is that the teachers may be far behind after the chaos of the fall and may be trying to crank it.  There's some talk in California and New York education circles that kids might need to be held a year back.  The schools are worried that when testing resumes, the test results (and the money that goes with them) may crater.  So the discussion as to how to remedy is hold everyone back a year.  If they don't go that route, they'll be enormous pressure for the teachers to make up ground in the spring.  It applies also to the high performing classes as well as the AP tests roll around.  Lot of variables (e.g. how they grade in the fall and how serious teachers and students take it) but my money is on the teachers (after the idea of hold everyone back a year dies) will be under pressure to crank it in the spring.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 21, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Assuming we do reopen up in time for a high school season, the other thing to consider is that the teachers may be far behind after the chaos of the fall and may be trying to crank it.  There's some talk in California and New York education circles that kids might need to be held a year back.  The schools are worried that when testing resumes, the test results (and the money that goes with them) may crater.  So the discussion as to how to remedy is hold everyone back a year.  If they don't go that route, they'll be enormous pressure for the teachers to make up ground in the spring.  It applies also to the high performing classes as well as the AP tests roll around.  Lot of variables (e.g. how they grade in the fall and how serious teachers and students take it) but my money is on the teachers (after the idea of hold everyone back a year dies) will be under pressure to crank it in the spring.


Holding kids back a year will be the worst decision yet in 2020


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 21, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> If they don't go that route, they'll be enormous pressure for the teachers to make up ground in the spring.


They won't be able to hold everyone back a year.

Therefore look for the public schools and the teachers unions to dumb down testing/grading thereby making it easier to pass with high grades and "look good".

So kids won't learn as much, but they will manipulate the results so the schools/union looks good.

In education circles that is what is known as a "win win".


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 21, 2020)

Mosafie said:


> Allow and can when games and practice overlap are not easy. Not to mention the additional academic time constraints.


with distance learning, it will not be too much of an academic constrain


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## Eagle33 (Jul 21, 2020)

Back on topic....
High schools will have a lot of logistical issues to work out with combining sports that normally are not in the same season.
Games/practices/field space. It will not have any wiggle room and everyone will have to follow strict schedule.
Club teams that normally use school fields will not be able to do this anymore.


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## espola (Jul 21, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Assuming we do reopen up in time for a high school season, the other thing to consider is that the teachers may be far behind after the chaos of the fall and may be trying to crank it.  There's some talk in California and New York education circles that kids might need to be held a year back.  The schools are worried that when testing resumes, the test results (and the money that goes with them) may crater.  So the discussion as to how to remedy is hold everyone back a year.  If they don't go that route, they'll be enormous pressure for the teachers to make up ground in the spring.  It applies also to the high performing classes as well as the AP tests roll around.  Lot of variables (e.g. how they grade in the fall and how serious teachers and students take it) but my money is on the teachers (after the idea of hold everyone back a year dies) will be under pressure to crank it in the spring.


Sort the kids out with standardized testing and offer to hold some back where appropriate.  Make it a parent/student decision.


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## Jose has returned (Jul 21, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Imagine all of those ECNL clubs thinking "Sweet!! WE can now get our hands on  those DA players we've been drooling over.  We can get them excited because they can also play high school now."
> And today they are thinking "SH&T.  How am I going to continue to coach HS and work for this ECNL club?"


as always follow the money.....do i keep employee benefits or do i take ECNL cash. hehe


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## Traore (Jul 21, 2020)

D7 soccer for boys and girls begin in December.  The remaining divisions start in March.  Is D7 for smaller schools?


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## Eagle33 (Jul 21, 2020)

Traore said:


> D7 soccer for boys and girls begin in December.  The remaining divisions start in March.  Is D7 for smaller schools?


D7 is small private and prep schools. Most of those have Varsity only teams


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## full90 (Jul 21, 2020)

Varsity only in many sports might be a reality. 
for us we’d pick ecnl over high school which SUCKS after being in DA and looking forward to high school for many reasons. But if soccer is up and going in the spring and our kid wants to play in college, it’s not worth missing club practice or games for hs. Plus the overload. If all is up and running getting exposure will be the priority in spring and hs won’t do that.
Maybe (?) club will be running before then and ecnl can get in an event of two so if you play hs you don’t miss any opportunities.

and I’m 100% certain our ecnl club coach won’t be flexible with missing club practice all week to accommodate all the different high schools game schedules. I’ve seen this movie before. But who knows. Everything is upside down.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 21, 2020)

full90 said:


> Varsity only in many sports might be a reality.
> for us we’d pick ecnl over high school which SUCKS after being in DA and looking forward to high school for many reasons. But if soccer is up and going in the spring and our kid wants to play in college, it’s not worth missing club practice or games for hs. Plus the overload. If all is up and running getting exposure will be the priority in spring and hs won’t do that.
> Maybe (?) club will be running before then and ecnl can get in an event of two so if you play hs you don’t miss any opportunities.
> 
> and I’m 100% certain our ecnl club coach won’t be flexible with missing club practice all week to accommodate all the different high schools game schedules. I’ve seen this movie before. But who knows. Everything is upside down.


It would suck if your dd coach would put the either or on your player.  I had a whole league do that to my kid and that sucked big time.  My guess is they try to work together.  Also, my dd will do both some way some how and manage the right health aspects.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 21, 2020)

full90 said:


> Varsity only in many sports might be a reality.
> for us we’d pick ecnl over high school which SUCKS after being in DA and looking forward to high school for many reasons. But if soccer is up and going in the spring and our kid wants to play in college, it’s not worth missing club practice or games for hs. Plus the overload. If all is up and running getting exposure will be the priority in spring and hs won’t do that.
> Maybe (?) club will be running before then and ecnl can get in an event of two so if you play hs you don’t miss any opportunities.
> 
> and I’m 100% certain our ecnl club coach won’t be flexible with missing club practice all week to accommodate all the different high schools game schedules. I’ve seen this movie before. But who knows. Everything is upside down.


It would heavily depend on how good your HS program is. If it's not, then no point to play HS, but otherwise you may get more opportunities to get recruited out of HS then you may think.
Varsity only is not the answer to anything. There are many kids that want to play in HS but will never play on Varsity.


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## timbuck (Jul 21, 2020)

There are some very solid hs/club soccer players that also excel at track, tennis, softball and lacrosse.  
Will be very interesting to see what these players decide to do.  Will be interesting to see what the HS AD and coaches try to do with these players.  Will be interesting to see how roster sizes will be impacted.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 21, 2020)

timbuck said:


> There are some very solid hs/club soccer players that also excel at track, tennis, softball and lacrosse.
> Will be very interesting to see what these players decide to do.  Will be interesting to see what the HS AD and coaches try to do with these players.  Will be interesting to see how roster sizes will be impacted.


it will be the time for HS coaches from different sports to finally work together with dual/triple sport athletes, instead of telling them to pick one sport.


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## timbuck (Jul 21, 2020)

In HS our kicker on the football team was the star soccer player.  Football and soccer were played during the same season.  He would often be running from one practice to the other.  Soccer games were usually on Thursday.  Football games on Friday. There was one week were the football game got moved to a Thursday.  He got the football game at halftime.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 21, 2020)

timbuck said:


> There are some very solid hs/club soccer players that also excel at track, tennis, softball and lacrosse.
> Will be very interesting to see what these players decide to do.  Will be interesting to see what the HS AD and coaches try to do with these players.  Will be interesting to see how roster sizes will be impacted.


The last year has been interesting and it will interesting to see what plays out next year


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## Copa9 (Jul 21, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> This season all CIF rules regarding playing club at the same time as HS will be suspended. This means technically kids can play both, just don't know how it will be possible to do it at the same time. Too much training and games.


Always keep academics first and foremost.


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## Copa9 (Jul 21, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Doubt children will be first in line for it, particularly given our governors recent actions.  For the younger kids they also have to be pediatric doses which require additional testing.


Early doses should go to hospital workers, EMT's, people with compromised immunity,  fire fighters, law enforcement. It has nothing to do with governors or any political agenda.


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## Copa9 (Jul 21, 2020)

dk_b said:


> I have a kid who just finished HS and two getting started.  The pressure that even the heavily-recruited athlete faces is enormous and if a parents are going through the HS ride with their first child - not knowing how to contextualize the season, not knowing how much to believe or shut out a DOC or club coach, how much to prioritize a specific show-case this one very odd academic year . . . Kids (and parents) are going to feel a lot pressure to do too much.
> 
> If the club season remains in spring and a full club/full HS season are played simultaneously (with similar participation rates), I predict the ACL tear rate for the 14 to 18 yo set will be very, VERY high in late spring/early summer.  My older kid was a GK and I'd be less worried about her playing that # of games (more worried about an increased concussion risk b/c of so many more live-action minutes) but my younger two are field players.  It will be tough to tell them - and their coach - "no.  That's too much" b/c it always feels like ONE MORE GAME is OK or a weekend with restricted minutes but that is how fatigue builds.


Especially if they haven't played any games in 9 or 10 months.  It is a disaster waiting to happen.


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## Dubs (Jul 21, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> wait until track athletes or baseball players will not chose soccer and all ECNL coaches (except ones coaching in private schools) will tell their players to not play HS


Bottome line is... If you play at the ECNL level and you're a 2021 or 2022 grad year, HS soccer should not be an option for you... especially if you're not already committed.  Assuming they want to play in college, their effort should be playing at the highest level possible without getting hurt and having college coaches see you.  College coaches almost never come to HS games.  Club trainings, ECNL games + HS trainings and games is a recipe for disaster.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 21, 2020)

Dubs said:


> Bottome line is... If you play at the ECNL level and you're a 2021 or 2022 grad year, *HS soccer should not be an option for you*... especially if you're not already committed.  Assuming they want to play in college, their effort should be playing at the highest level possible without getting hurt and having college coaches see you.  College coaches almost never come to HS games.  Club trainings, ECNL games + HS trainings and games is a recipe for disaster.


I bet you $50 that ECNL SW will make it work so kids have a choice for both.  You sound like my dd old Doc coach.  Obviously people like you and others will say it should not be an option.  I say it should be an option for those who want both.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 21, 2020)

Dubs said:


> Bottome line is... If you play at the ECNL level and you're a 2021 or 2022 grad year, HS soccer should not be an option for you... especially if you're not already committed.  Assuming they want to play in college, their effort should be playing at the highest level possible without getting hurt and having college coaches see you.  College coaches almost never come to HS games.  Club trainings, ECNL games + HS trainings and games is a recipe for disaster.


Is this from your personal experience? It's just my experience is very different.
I know few coaches who coach both ECNL and HS, I also know few college coaches who love to come to HS games.


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## espola (Jul 21, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Is this from your personal experience? It's just my experience is very different.
> I know few coaches who coach both ECNL and HS, I also know few college coaches who love to come to HS games.


I don't know any college coaches who "love" to come to HS games, but I know some college coaches who will attend a HS game to look at a player they have already heard about.


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## lafalafa (Jul 21, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Is this from your personal experience? It's just my experience is very different.
> I know few coaches who coach both ECNL and HS, I also know few college coaches who love to come to HS games.


We have college coaches attending our HS games, come playoff time there a bunch of them and other scouts.

If a HS player is a standout "all" team type they will get noticed however there are only 11-15 of those per division so the club showcase players might have a numbers difference advantage, more of them being offered especially on the girls side


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## Dubs (Jul 21, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I bet you $50 that ECNL SW will make it work so kids have a choice for both.  You sound like my dd old Doc coach.  Obviously people like you and others will say it should not be an option.  I say it should be an option for those who want both.


What are you talking about?  When I say "should not be an option for you" I don't mean because it's not.  YOU or anyone else can do whatever YOU want to do.  However (and I thought I was clear about this) if you plan on playing in college, it is my opinion that you should not play HS while club is going on because it will be a waste of your time if you're trying to get recruited.  Did you not read what I said?  You're reading it as if I'm saying there should be a mandate and that couldn't be further from the truth.  If you want your DD to do both...more power to you, but HS will NOT get your kid recruited and WILL leave them suseptable to injury particularly if they choose to do both at the same time.


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## Dubs (Jul 21, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Is this from your personal experience? It's just my experience is very different.
> I know few coaches who coach both ECNL and HS, I also know few college coaches who love to come to HS games.


It is my personal experience.  I've never witnessed any coaches coming to my DDs HS games, but she also didn't advertise is because it's shit soccer.  All recruitement came from a combination of her ECNL and NPL league games + ECNL showcases.  I said "almost never" regarding college coaches coming to watch.  I'm sure upon occasion they do, but from what I know/understand...they don't show up to HS games.  If your DD is being heavily recruited and invited some to a HS game, that could be a different story.  All I'm saying is it's not common by any stretch.


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## Mic Nificent (Jul 21, 2020)

Crazy to try and do both. It’s not worth the risk injury. I say pick one and live with your decision and be thankful they might even have the option and games are actually played.


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## full90 (Jul 21, 2020)

I don’t think ecnl will work with high school schedules and suspend games for the spring. That’s prime recruiting time and a chance for ecnl to make money on events. And after all this time off clubs will create college exposure tournaments and kids like mine will not miss those to play high school.

I’d love to be wrong but I can’t imagine ecnl or any other club league will have been suspended from March 2020 until March 2021 only to hold off for 3 months for kids to play high school. ESP since college coaches will be working from a missed year as well.

maybe club will get up and going prior to that. And maybe individual CIF sections will cancel the rule to play both club and hs at once (it’s up to each section to institute that). Or maybe we have a vaccine in 12 weeks. Or maybe we are all sitting at home still.

and when and if we have a vaccine it should go to immune compromised, those on front lines, essential workers and communities of color where the infection and death rate is insanely high. I’m fine sitting in suburbia in my big house with a healthy family and resources and be later in line. Let’s put all this social justice and systemic racism talk into action and care for and vaccinate those in need first.


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## Mosafie (Jul 21, 2020)

Our district has made it clear that fall online will nothing like the rushed online school last year. It will be harder and kids will be held responsible for the work.

I have my doubts that schools will open in the winter/spring. If we can't keep cases down during the heat of the summer then fall and winter will be very tough.


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## dawson (Jul 21, 2020)

full90 said:


> I don’t think ecnl will work with high school schedules and suspend games for the spring. That’s prime recruiting time and a chance for ecnl to make money on events. And after all this time off clubs will create college exposure tournaments and kids like mine will not miss those to play high school.
> 
> I’d love to be wrong but I can’t imagine ecnl or any other club league will have been suspended from March 2020 until March 2021 only to hold off for 3 months for kids to play high school. ESP since college coaches will be working from a missed year as well.
> 
> ...


I thought older people were statistically the most vulnerable group .


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## Grace T. (Jul 21, 2020)

Mosafie said:


> Our district has made it clear that fall online will nothing like the rushed online school last year. It will be harder and kids will be held responsible for the work.
> 
> I have my doubts that schools will open in the winter/spring. If we can't keep cases down during the heat of the summer then fall and winter will be very tough.


I agree that the high school season is aspirational at this point.  Too many variables (when is the vaccine ready, are there second waves and are they winter seasonal or is the 20% threshold the burnout, how sick people are of things when Thanksgiving rolls around).  But most profoundly that this start resumes with cold/flu season.

The one big issue for online learning remains accountability.  There's simply no way to effectively police for cheating in remote...you can reduce it but those intent on doing it can still do it relatively easy and at one point is policing 40+ students no longer worth it to the teacher by way of time...you're still effectively on the honor system.  And if you are on the honor system, there's no way to maintain for equity, particularly for disadvantaged students.  A lot of what's going on for online learning right now is cheerleading and salesmanship....it won't be as bad as what they cobbled together in spring...it's not going to be anywhere near what some are promising right now (just to shut people up).


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## jpeter (Jul 21, 2020)

full90 said:


> I don’t think ecnl will work with high school schedules and suspend games for the spring. That’s prime recruiting time and a chance for ecnl to make money on events. And after all this time off clubs will create college exposure tournaments and kids like mine will not miss those to play high school.
> 
> I’d love to be wrong but I can’t imagine ecnl or any other club league will have been suspended from March 2020 until March 2021 only to hold off for 3 months for kids to play high school. ESP since college coaches will be working from a missed year as well.
> 
> ...


Already happening Domino's anyone?

DSL announced start of fall season pushed back to October, 10 games no playoffs, 1 game per weekend pending field availability. season will carry over into January and February there will be a break between November 23rd and January 17th Games resuming on the 23rd tentatively ending by February 21, 2021.

Calsouth looking at changing the dates for state and national cups so the oldest will most likely start later and possibly run into June youngers probably March start.


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## dad4 (Jul 21, 2020)

[


dawson said:


> I thought older people were statistically the most vulnerable group .


Within the same age group, some jobs are higher exposure.  Those workers are disproportionately from minority communities.

I have not heard an argument that minority workers in low exposure jobs have a different risk than other workers in low exposure jobs.


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## notintheface (Jul 21, 2020)

jpeter said:


> Calsouth looking at changing the dates for state and national cups so the oldest will most likely start later and possibly run into June youngers probably March start.


It is absolutely amazing that the only competitive play for the 2020-2021 season, for the youngers, will be State Cup.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 21, 2020)

jpeter said:


> Already happening Domino's anyone?
> 
> DSL announced start of fall season pushed back to October, 10 games no playoffs, 1 game per weekend pending field availability. season will carry over into January and February there will be a break between November 23rd and January 17th Games resuming on the 23rd tentatively ending by February 21, 2021.
> 
> Calsouth looking at changing the dates for state and national cups so the oldest will most likely start later and possibly run into June youngers probably March start.


Unless there's a vaccine I don't know how it's possible under the current circumstances to start a season in January/December to have a youngers state cup ready in March.  Again, cold/flu season.  If the protocol is anyone who is sick needs to be tested (which is where we are headed IF the schools do reopen), that's an impossible time to get things off and running (unless there's a vaccine).  If that's the time table, meaning youth practices don't resume in the next month or 2 at most, I think the 2020-2021 season will likely be scrubbed and they'll move straight into tryouts for 2021-2022.  By that point, all but the highest level teams will be so scrambled it will be difficult for anyone to field a squad for state cup.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 21, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Unless there's a vaccine I don't know how it's possible under the current circumstances to start a season in January/December to have a youngers state cup ready in March.  Again, cold/flu season.  If the protocol is anyone who is sick needs to be tested (which is where we are headed IF the schools do reopen), that's an impossible time to get things off and running (unless there's a vaccine).  If that's the time table, meaning youth practices don't resume in the next month or 2 at most, I think the 2020-2021 season will likely be scrubbed and they'll move straight into tryouts for 2021-2022.  By that point, all but the highest level teams will be so scrambled it will be difficult for anyone to field a squad for state cup.


Also FYI there's been a lawsuit filed today (which I write about in the other thread) to force Newsom to reopen the schools.  2 of the grounds aren't going to work, 2 are for limited communities, but 1 of them is an argument called equal protection.  It says that the government does not have any rational basis for distinguising between schools and summer camps/day care.  He didn't even allow schools the possibility to go all outside.  It's not a slam dunk by any means (particularly in blue California) but it's the 1 claim which sort of has something to it.

So how's that relevant for soccer?  Well, basically it makes it much more difficult for the governor to resume youth sports in any county where schools are shut.  Because the argument will be if schools are shut, how come you are allowing (even distanced) youth sports, particularly if some schools are prepared to go outside only if and when feasible with weather.  The lawsuit isn't going to resolve schools because it's going to take a very long time in the courts, but it's probably enough to keep kids away from at least non-distanced sports while schools are shut down.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 21, 2020)

Dubs said:


> What are you talking about?  When I say "should not be an option for you" I don't mean because it's not.  YOU or anyone else can do whatever YOU want to do.  However (and I thought I was clear about this) if you plan on playing in college, it is my opinion that you should not play HS while club is going on because it will be a waste of your time if you're trying to get recruited.  Did you not read what I said?  You're reading it as if I'm saying there should be a mandate and that couldn't be further from the truth.  If you want your DD to do both...more power to you, but HS will NOT get your kid recruited and WILL leave them suseptable to injury particularly if they choose to do both at the same time.


Tell you what Dubs. I'm so sick of all this I'll make bet with you. No ECNL needed for my dd to get a deal in college.  I bet you $195 that my dd will get a deal done by playing HS Soccer only and no ECNL.  Plus, another $105 that D1 college coaches will.come watch her play in the Spring season.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 21, 2020)

Dubs said:


> It is my personal experience.  I've never witnessed any coaches coming to my DDs HS games, but she also didn't advertise is because it's shit soccer.  All recruitement came from a combination of her ECNL and NPL league games + ECNL showcases.  I said "almost never" regarding college coaches coming to watch.  I'm sure upon occasion they do, but from what I know/understand...they don't show up to HS games.  If your DD is being heavily recruited and invited some to a HS game, that could be a different story.  All I'm saying is it's not common by any stretch.


Those were the old days.


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## chiefs (Jul 21, 2020)

dad4 said:


> [
> 
> Within the same age group, some jobs are higher exposure.  Those workers are disproportionately from minority communities.
> 
> I have not heard an argument that minority workers in low exposure jobs have a different risk than other workers in low exposure jobs.


Well besides first responders including all hospital workers, designated essential services should be in the top shelf of priority including food and beverage manufacturing.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 21, 2020)

Hey Dubs, I came on here a year ago in a huff and puff about HS Soccer being awesome.  I still feel that way and I do take it personal when you and others say it sucks. Its dangerous yes, but my dd and others are making it better.  To each his own and school and coach do matter so if your dd program sucks then that is a different issue altogether. If my dd played for a bad coach and program sucked, then I would just quit and knot attack the whole sport.  That's what Doc told my dd.  That it was horrible and pathetic and all that.  My dd was not.good for business because she championed womans high school soccer. Peace brah!!!


----------



## chiefs (Jul 21, 2020)

I


chiefs said:


> Well besides first responders including all hospital workers, designated essential services should be in the top shelf of priority including food and beverage manufacturing.


I would include truck drivers who provide the food and beverage to our local stores and warehouses.


----------



## Dubs (Jul 21, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Tell you what Dubs. I'm so sick of all this I'll make bet with you. No ECNL needed for my dd to get a deal in college.  I bet you $195 that my dd will get a deal done by playing HS Soccer only and no ECNL.  Plus, another $105 that D1 college coaches will.come watch her play in the Spring season.


You're confusing me.  I don't really even know how to answer but I'll try.  I'm guessing the only reason you're saying what you're saying and putting out a wager is because your kid has already been identified.  If that is the case, then perhaps she can get a commitment by not playing ECNL, but that's neither here nor there.  If you would rather not pay and have her take her chances with definitely an inferior brand of soccer that lends itself to injuries because of the wide varieties of skill levels...then all the best to you and your DD.  I have nothing against HS soccer until there is a situation where you have potentially one interfering with the other.  When they do that, the choice is clear...at least for my DD.  She's already committed so HS is going to be out of the question.  Do what you want player.  Bets not required.  I'm just not sure why you're riding the jock of HS so much.  Generally speaking.. it's wack in terms of the soccer.


----------



## Dubs (Jul 21, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Those were the old days.


Huh???


----------



## Dubs (Jul 21, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Hey Dubs, I came on here a year ago in a huff and puff about HS Soccer being awesome.  I still feel that way and I do take it personal when you and others say it sucks. Its dangerous yes, but my dd and others are making it better.  To each his own and school and coach do matter so if your dd program sucks then that is a different issue altogether. If my dd played for a bad coach and program sucked, then I would just quit and knot attack the whole sport.  That's what Doc told my dd.  That it was horrible and pathetic and all that.  My dd was not.good for business because she championed womans high school soccer. Peace brah!!!


No need to get huffy and puffy with me patna.  If your kid digs HS soccer, you like the coach/program... more power to you as I said.  However, HS soccer is 100% a lesser level than ECNL.  You've said repeatedly that your kid plays this level so you should know better than to say something different.  You can be jaded by the process all you want, but college recruiting (in large part) happens at the club level in the highest level leagues.  You KNOW this, so I'm not even understanding your point.  HS soccer has benefits, but certiainly not from a soccer point of view from what I've witness over the years.  I have NEVER been to a HS game and thought...wow these girls are ballin (maybe individuals but not teams).  That is my experience.  Perhaps yours is different and that's fine, but don'tever get it twisted.  The college coaches will always go to the highest level leagues and look at those teams/clubs first.  HS, if it is on their list, is probably the last place they'll show up unless your kid has already been identified and invited them to an HS game as I've already said.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 21, 2020)

Dubs said:


> You're confusing me.  I don't really even know how to answer but I'll try.  I'm guessing the only reason you're saying what you're saying and putting out a wager is because your kid has already been identified.  If that is the case, then perhaps she can get a commitment by not playing ECNL, but that's neither here nor there.  If you would rather not pay and have her take her chances with definitely an inferior brand of soccer that lends itself to injuries because of the wide varieties of skill levels...then all the best to you and your DD.  I have nothing against HS soccer until there is a situation where you have potentially one interfering with the other.  When they do that, the choice is clear...at least for my DD.  She's already committed so HS is going to be out of the question.  Do what you want player.  Bets not required.  I'm just not sure why you're riding the jock of HS so much.  Generally speaking.. it's wack in terms of the soccer.


My dd is not ID at all that I'm aware of.  She has never talked to a D1 head coach.  She is going to email her 20 some colleges she's interested in a video at the right time and now is not the right time.  Were hoping HS Soccer is on and those coaches who would like to watch my dd and other top players in HS play for their schools.  The timing is right.  It's time to make HS Soccer awesome.  Why?  So all girls can play and I guarantee it you will find some really good players who might just fall in love with soccer and not play basketball or track or they might do all three and that's all good too. That's what I mean about them being the old days. I agree the college coaches went to ECNL and GDA showcases in the old days.  Maybe we can make HS Soccer a viable free option for all students at the school?  Your basically saying the play sucks and I would have to disagree with you.  The Sunset League in Girls soccer had some really good Srs last year and many were going to some of the top D1 schools. What part of Scoal does your goat play HS in?  @MakeAPlay  understands all this as well.  Some kids have to be social at school and soccer at her school is cool.  They play possession unless their taking on a big physical team like Palos Verdes, then it's stay out of jump balls and no stupid plays. My dd is super tough and aggressive but is not stupid.  BTW, I wanted my dd to play GDA and not HS soccer because three Docs told me what your saying.  I let my dd do what she wanted and were all happy.


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## Giesbock (Jul 21, 2020)

I’m thinking that in your heart of hearts EJ, you want more for your daughter than high school ball.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 21, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> I’m thinking that in your heart of hearts EJ, you want more for your daughter than high school ball.


I do, I want ECNL to work out and the GA and all the leagues.  That is 100%.  However, let's find a way to do both.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 22, 2020)

Dubs said:


> No need to get huffy and puffy with me patna.  If your kid digs HS soccer, you like the coach/program... more power to you as I said.  However, HS soccer is 100% a lesser level than ECNL.  You've said repeatedly that your kid plays this level so you should know better than to say something different.  You can be jaded by the process all you want, but college recruiting (in large part) happens at the club level in the highest level leagues.  You KNOW this, so I'm not even understanding your point.  HS soccer has benefits, but certiainly not from a soccer point of view from what I've witness over the years.  I have NEVER been to a HS game and thought...wow these girls are ballin (maybe individuals but not teams).  That is my experience.  Perhaps yours is different and that's fine, but don'tever get it twisted.  The college coaches will always go to the highest level leagues and look at those teams/clubs first.  HS, if it is on their list, is probably the last place they'll show up unless your kid has already been identified and invited them to an HS game as I've already said.


How all those girls made colleges pre-ECNL and pre-DA? Playing ECNL is not the only option to get noticed. Again, if you HS program sucks that's a different story, but there are plenty very good programs with great coaching, at least in OC.
Is your DD already in college?


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## Patandpats (Jul 22, 2020)

Lots of great players in high school and they are getting recruited.  Here are the TDS all region teams and their commitments. Some pretty great schools.

*CALIFORNIA-NORTH* 
*[Includes the Central Coast, North Coast, Sac-Joaquin and Northern sections]*

FKarlie LemaLive Oak (Calif.)Jr.CaliforniaFEmma VaneArchbishop Mitty (Calif.)Jr. MMegan EdelmanMonte Vista (Calif.)Sr.UCLAMJulia LeontiniMonte Vista (Calif.)Sr.StanfordMSistine NoelMountain View (Calif.)Jr.Santa ClaraMElizabeth OspeckCarondelet (Calif.)Sr.Notre DameMMichaela RosenbaumMontgomery (Calif.)Sr.UCLAMLexi ZandonellaCarondelet (Calif.)Sr.Sonoma StateDJulia GonsmanAmador Valley (Calif.)Sr.CaliforniaDIsabella PanaccioneSt. Francis-Mountain View (Calif.)Jr.Santa ClaraGKLeah FreemanBerkeley (Calif.)Sr.OregonCoachShane KennedyTamalpais (Calif.)  
*CALIFORNIA-SOUTH* 
*[Includes the Central, Los Angeles, San Diego and Southern sections]*


FColby BarnettLos Alamitos (Calif.)Jr.Santa ClaraFSamantha WilliamsJSerra (Calif.)Sr.StanfordFAlexandria WrightCarlsbad (Calif.)Jr.UCLAM Rilee HarmonSantiago/Corona (Calif.)Sr.CaliforniaMTabitha LaParlLos Alamitos (Calif.)Jr.PepperdineMIsabel LozaLa Mirada (Calif.)Sr.UCLAMGrace WatkinsMira Costa (Calif.)Sr.DukeM Marin WhieldonUpland (Calif.)Sr.Washington StateDAnna DeLeonPalos Verdes (Calif.)Sr.FloridaDKendyll FrittsJSerra (Calif.)Sr.ColoradoGKRyan CampbellJSerra (Calif.)Sr.StanfordCoachBo WhieldonUpland (Calif.)


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## Patandpats (Jul 22, 2020)

Here are the boys and remember all of these commitments are before the DA ended and we added even more great players to HS whenever it happens.


*CALIFORNIA-NORTH
[Includes the Central Coast, North Coast, Sac-Joaquin and Northern sections]*

FZack BatchelderMontgomery (Calif.)Sr.UC DavisFLiam JohnsonSacred Heart Prep (Calif.)Sr.Santa ClaraFWyatt MeyerSt. Mary's (Calif.)Sr.CaliforniaMJulian ChurchillJesuit (Calif.)Sr.WashingtonMKalani Kossa-RienziBerkeley (Calif.)Sr.WashingtonMChris MeyersJesuit (Calif.)Sr.WashingtonMMiguel TostadoMenlo-Atherton (Calif.)Sr.UC Santa BarbaraMKevin WelchMontgomery (Calif.)Sr.UC DavisDTate HackettBellarmine Prep (Calif.)Jr.DDiego RamosYgnacio Valley (Calif.)Jr.GKFernando EscobedoClayton Valley CharterSr.CoachJon SchwanMontgomery (Calif.)
*CALIFORNIA-SOUTH
[Includes the Central, Los Angeles, San Diego and Southern sections]*


FGrayson DoodyLoyola (Calif.)Sr.UCLAFBuba FofanahCate School (Calif.)Sr.PortlandFJake MeansSimi Valley (Calif.)Sr.UC IrvineMMoises HernandezSan Luis Obispo (Calif.)Sr.Cal PolyMJake KosakoffTorrey Pines (Calif.)Sr.UC San DiegoMTyler OaksonMission Viejo (Calif.)Sr.SMUMUriel SanchezServite (Calif.)Sr.Cal State Dominguez HillsMAndrew ValverdeNorth Torrance (Calif.)Sr.UCLAM/DPablo GreenleeHarvard-Westlake (Calif.)Sr.UCLADTomas GriegoLoyola (Calif.)Sr.San Francisco StateGKDavid MitznerServite (Calif.)Sr.PortlandCoachArturo LopezCathedral (Calif.)


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

Excellent information Pats.  Don;t forget Reilyn Turner from Laguna Beach HS.  UCLA commit.  She really wanted to play this last season but got hurt at one of those Woman National Team games and had to sit out.  It was not safe for her at all.  The other teams swarmed her and played way to rough on her and it was at times bush league, if you know what I mean.  By far the best player my dd had the privilege to play with.  Basically, when my dd was a Fr she and the other Srs were amazing to the little Fr rookies.  My dd was a new student and didnt know a soul and the veterans on that team took care of her.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

Patandpats said:


> Lots of great players in high school and they are getting recruited.  Here are the TDS all region teams and their commitments. Some pretty great schools.
> 
> *CALIFORNIA-NORTH
> [Includes the Central Coast, North Coast, Sac-Joaquin and Northern sections]*
> ...


I'll bet every single one of them played club ball... and probably at a high profile club as well.  When you submit a player profile to TDS, it asks for your club name and high school.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

I was thinking this morning about this.  I have never ever heard someone tell me high school basketball sucks and it's too dangerous or talent-less.  I have heard people say their basketball team sucks because they have no talent, but not, "basketball sucks in High School."  I played baseball in the South Coast League in the early 80s.  I would never have said, "high school baseball sucks and the players who play high school baseball suck.  The scouts only watch travel ball games."  The truth is our school was in the wrong league and we got killed by the likes of Capo Valley HS, Mission Viejo, San Clemente, to name a few of the giants.  We would lose 23-2, no joke.  I got my chance to hit with MLB scouts in the stands with their MPH guns.  I went up against guys like Lee Plemel from Laguna Hills, the Call bros from Capo and some top draft pick named Dobbs from Capo beach.  I also hit against Paul Abbott out of Sunny Hills.  I struck out against all of them.  Abbott and Dobbs were in the 90s with a nasty change up and curve ball.  1, 2 3 and my dream was over.  I did not stand their looking and went out swinging foolishly in front of the scouts.  Big wake up call for me that I was not big league material.  So I went for being a pro surfer instead.  EOTL thinks I was pro and I never said that.  My bros were but not me.  My best chance of pro was baseball and I smoked way too much weed in High School.  I'm all for it for medical purposes for those over 50 with bad back but no flower for teens.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 22, 2020)

I don't think HS soccer is bad, but I do believe some coaches want club parents to believe it is.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> I'll bet every single one of them played club ball... and probably at a high profile club as well.  When you submit a player profile to TDS, it asks for your club name and high school.


To be clear, HS was social, not a place where the girls got recruited.  These top players did not need a showcase either, they already were on the lists in 7th & 8th grade.  I got all this figured out now but it's no point to go back into the past everyone.  The future is now and all this soccer tiers will get sorted out.  Soccer first of all needs to be free at the grass roots.  It's free around the world but expensive as hell to play here.  We need a plan where kids can play for free.


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## Stephen A smith (Jul 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> To be clear, HS was social, not a place where the girls got recruited.  These top players did not need a showcase either, they already were on the lists in 7th & 8th grade.  I got all this figured out now but it's no point to go back into the past everyone.  The future is now and all this soccer tiers will get sorted out.  Soccer first of all needs to be free at the grass roots.  It's free around the world but expensive as hell to play here.  We need a plan where kids can play for free.


Exactly why the mens teams don't qualify for the WC. The system is set up for the the ones that can afford it. That doesn't mean they are the best. Then you see clubs Taking money from the government and parents. I doubt they give any back. On top of that they are holding camps. It's all greed


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## Copa9 (Jul 22, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> How all those girls made colleges pre-ECNL and pre-DA? Playing ECNL is not the only option to get noticed. Again, if you HS program sucks that's a different story, but there are plenty very good programs with great coaching, at least in OC.
> Is your DD already in college?


You pretty much answered your own question.  There was no ECNL, DA.  Coaches looked at ODP teams, league, conference champions and nationals championship teams, national teams.


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## Dubs (Jul 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I do, I want ECNL to work out and the GA and all the leagues.  That is 100%.  However, let's find a way to do both.


So you didn't read what I said.  It is only a problem when both are going on at the SAME TIME!!!  My kid played HS ball her Fresh and Soph years, so I'm not against the concept of playing for your school, social aspects, blah blah blah.  I get it.  She's in ECNL so you can play if you want to.  My issue is when both ECNL and HS will be during the same time frame!  Playing either both or choosing to play HS over ECNL is not a wise choice IMO.  As good as you say your HS league is, it's not anywhere near ECNL and will never be as long as this level of soccer exists for elite players and players striving to be elite.


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## Dubs (Jul 22, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> How all those girls made colleges pre-ECNL and pre-DA? Playing ECNL is not the only option to get noticed. Again, if you HS program sucks that's a different story, but there are plenty very good programs with great coaching, at least in OC.
> Is your DD already in college?


I'm not disputing that at all.  As others have said, there are many paths to Rome.  I'm just saying HS ONLY is very much the not travelled path.  Can it work out?  Sure.  I guess.  I don't know of any "I only played HS without club and got recruited to play womens D1 soccer".    My kid is going into her senior year and has been committed since Soph year before the rule changed.


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## Dubs (Jul 22, 2020)

Patandpats said:


> Lots of great players in high school and they are getting recruited.  Here are the TDS all region teams and their commitments. Some pretty great schools.
> 
> *CALIFORNIA-NORTH*
> *[Includes the Central Coast, North Coast, Sac-Joaquin and Northern sections]*
> ...


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## Simisoccerfan (Jul 22, 2020)

Every single girl listed above for Cal South played ECNL.  It is just plain ignorant and wrong to think that HS soccer had anything to do with it.  Also no one that is uncommitted and wants to play in college. will chose HS over ECNL if you can’t do both. Also girls need to play for clubs or leagues that use Instat since college recruiting budgets will be slashed for years.


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## Dubs (Jul 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I was thinking this morning about this.  I have never ever heard someone tell me high school basketball sucks and it's too dangerous or talent-less.  I have heard people say their basketball team sucks because they have no talent, but not, "basketball sucks in High School."  I played baseball in the South Coast League in the early 80s.  I would never have said, "high school baseball sucks and the players who play high school baseball suck.  The scouts only watch travel ball games."  The truth is our school was in the wrong league and we got killed by the likes of Capo Valley HS, Mission Viejo, San Clemente, to name a few of the giants.  We would lose 23-2, no joke.  I got my chance to hit with MLB scouts in the stands with their MPH guns.  I went up against guys like Lee Plemel from Laguna Hills, the Call bros from Capo and some top draft pick named Dobbs from Capo beach.  I also hit against Paul Abbott out of Sunny Hills.  I struck out against all of them.  Abbott and Dobbs were in the 90s with a nasty change up and curve ball.  1, 2 3 and my dream was over.  I did not stand their looking and went out swinging foolishly in front of the scouts.  Big wake up call for me that I was not big league material.  So I went for being a pro surfer instead.  EOTL thinks I was pro and I never said that.  My bros were but not me.  My best chance of pro was baseball and I smoked way too much weed in High School.  I'm all for it for medical purposes for those over 50 with bad back but no flower for teens.


This is girls HS soccer and you're comparing it to HS BBall from a recruiting standpoint.  It's not comaparable!  You can wish it to happen, but doesn't mean it will.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

Dubs said:


> So you didn't read what I said.  It is only a problem when both are going on at the* SAME TIME!!!*  My kid played HS ball her Fresh and Soph years, so I'm not against the concept of playing for your school, social aspects, *blah blah blah.*  I get it.  She's in ECNL so you can play if you want to.  My issue is when both ECNL and HS will be during the same time frame!  *Playing either both or choosing to play HS over ECNL is not a wise choice IMO*.  As good as you say your HS league is,* it's not anywhere near ECNL* and will never be as long as this level of soccer exists for elite players and players striving to be elite.


Look Dubs, I watched all this with my own eyes.  This is not a right or wrong but more of a both and.  I'm not advocating doing both hard core either. If your coach ((Doc)) is whispering things like, "HS Soccer sucks" then I would say back to him, "you suck."  To each his own.  I can tell you ECNL and GDA had issues with Ganas.  I saw girls play at showcases and the zeal and ganas to win was not there.  I then see these same girls play in big rival games in HS and the player is amazing because their playing with school pride and ganas.  I saw my own two eyes. I am a witness and I know sports should be played with ganas, not soft development where you dont try hard to not get hurt.  The showcases are more for individuals who want to show off imo.  I did not see the spirit of winning.  Again, I believe ECNL will work things out for Socal HS Soccer.  Let's in brace it.  You dd must have been in a bad league with a bad coach.  High School Soccer Rules....lol!!!


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Every single girl listed above for Cal South played ECNL.  It is just plain ignorant and wrong to think that HS soccer had anything to do with it.  Also no one that is uncommitted and wants to play in college. will chose HS over ECNL if you can’t do both. Also girls need to play for clubs or leagues that use Instat since college recruiting budgets will be slashed for years.


and they did both.


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## soccer5210 (Jul 22, 2020)

My daughter is a rising senior ECNL player who has decided that she is not interested in playing in college (had been looked at and contacted by some D1s and D2s prior to her decision.) Wants to pursue a medical major and have a “regular” college experience, and realized that soccer would make both of those things so much harder that it wasn’t worth it  to her. That said, ALL she wants is to have a final high school season. She would/will drop club in a split second to be able to play her last high school season. I think there may be more ECNL seniors than you might think who feel the same.


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## GT45 (Jul 22, 2020)

soccer5210 said:


> My daughter is a rising senior ECNL player who has decided that she is not interested in playing in college (had been looked at and contacted by some D1s and D2s prior to her decision.) Wants to pursue a medical major and have a “regular” college experience, and realized that soccer would make both of those things so much harder that it wasn’t worth it  to her. That said, ALL she wants is to have a final high school season. She would/will drop club in a split second to be able to play her last high school season. I think there may be more ECNL seniors than you might think who feel the same.


That is nice your daughter feels that way, but the idea that other ECNL seniors will follow her path is VERY unlikely. It takes an extra commitment to play ECNL (both time and money), so 99% of those kids want to play in college. But there is no reason to debate this. They can play both. It is just a matter of the HS and club coaches being smart and not overworking the kids in training.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

soccer5210 said:


> My daughter is a rising senior ECNL player who has decided that she is not interested in playing in college (had been looked at and contacted by some D1s and D2s prior to her decision.) Wants to pursue a medical major and have a “regular” college experience, and realized that soccer would make both of those things so much harder that it wasn’t worth it  to her. That said, ALL she wants is to have a final high school season. She would/will drop club in a split second to be able to play her last high school season. I think there may be more ECNL seniors than you might think who feel the same.


The last three years of club soccer has sucked for many girls and many are saying good bye for good.  I know a few who thought it was the best sport since slice bread.  I'm here to tell you as a fan of sports with ganas, youth club soccer lost that ingredients some time ago.  HS Soccer is played with Ganas and that is why it should be embraced, not made fun of and told it sucks.  Let's just say it needs to be improved and I'm willing to support that because its free!!!!


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## jpeter (Jul 22, 2020)

soccer5210 said:


> My daughter is a rising senior ECNL player who has decided that she is not interested in playing in college (had been looked at and contacted by some D1s and D2s prior to her decision.) Wants to pursue a medical major and have a “regular” college experience, and realized that soccer would make both of those things so much harder that it wasn’t worth it  to her. That said, ALL she wants is to have a final high school season. She would/will drop club in a split second to be able to play her last high school season. I think there may be more ECNL seniors than you might think who feel the same.


Our daughter is now a college sophomore,  loved her senior HS year but it was normal and played ECNL also.  

Everyone had college offers including her but she went the medical route and got a bunch of sholarships outside sports.  She still participated in athletics intramural so it was working well until the shutdown.


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## Dubs (Jul 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> and they did both.


Dude, they did both because they were not scheduled at the same time. ECNL (as I'm sure you know) breaks for HS soccer....which my kid did!


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## soccer5210 (Jul 22, 2020)

GT45 said:


> That is nice your daughter feels that way, but the idea that other ECNL seniors will follow her path is VERY unlikely. It takes an extra commitment to play ECNL (both time and money), so 99% of those kids want to play in college. But there is no reason to debate this. They can play both. It is just a matter of the HS and club coaches being smart and not overworking the kids in training.


Im not debating that, just putting out a perspective that may be unique to seniors. I hope things get better and everyone gets to be able to make the choice to play either or both.


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## LBCTrojan (Jul 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I was thinking this morning about this.  I have never ever heard someone tell me high school basketball sucks and it's too dangerous or talent-less.  I have heard people say their basketball team sucks because they have no talent, but not, "basketball sucks in High School."  I played baseball in the South Coast League in the early 80s.  I would never have said, "high school baseball sucks and the players who play high school baseball suck.  The scouts only watch travel ball games."  The truth is our school was in the wrong league and we got killed by the likes of Capo Valley HS, Mission Viejo, San Clemente, to name a few of the giants.  We would lose 23-2, no joke.  I got my chance to hit with MLB scouts in the stands with their MPH guns.  I went up against guys like Lee Plemel from Laguna Hills, the Call bros from Capo and some top draft pick named Dobbs from Capo beach.  I also hit against Paul Abbott out of Sunny Hills.  I struck out against all of them.  Abbott and Dobbs were in the 90s with a nasty change up and curve ball.  1, 2 3 and my dream was over.  I did not stand their looking and went out swinging foolishly in front of the scouts.  Big wake up call for me that I was not big league material.  So I went for being a pro surfer instead.  EOTL thinks I was pro and I never said that.  My bros were but not me.  My best chance of pro was baseball and I smoked way too much weed in High School.  I'm all for it for medical purposes for those over 50 with bad back but no flower for teens.


South Coast League was nails for baseball & football back in early 80's. Plemel, Wayne Helm, Alan Roman & crew led Laguna Hills to their only CIF championship back in'84. Big accomplishment for a smaller, newer school to beat league teams like Capo, MV & El Toro & then make a CIF title run


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

GT45 said:


> That is nice your daughter feels that way, but the idea that other ECNL seniors will follow her path is VERY unlikely. It takes an extra commitment to play ECNL (both time and money), so 99% of those kids want to play in college. But there is no reason to debate this. They can play both. It is just a matter of the HS and club coaches being smart and not overworking the kids in training.


I'm shocked were already having what if debates about all this.  I believe all this will work itself out.  However, if Mr coach tells senior teenager either or, I bet more will say buzz off I'm playing with my friends.


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## Patandpats (Jul 22, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Every single girl listed above for Cal South played ECNL.  It is just plain ignorant and wrong to think that HS soccer had anything to do with it.  Also no one that is uncommitted and wants to play in college. will chose HS over ECNL if you can’t do both. Also girls need to play for clubs or leagues that use Instat since college recruiting budgets will be slashed for years.


Not denying that at all. Just pushing back on the claim that the play isn't good in HS.  Plenty of teams are rough and terrible, but at bigger schools/divisions you mostly have teams that can play and are filled with good players. Every kid we will start this year if there is a this year is former DA/ECNL and for the sophomores it's great to play against older good players.  For the seniors it's great to play in new positions, be a leader, take kicks, etc. That helps development.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

LBCTrojan said:


> South Coast League was nails for baseball & football back in early 80's. Plemel, Wayne Helm, Alan Roman & crew led Laguna Hills to their only CIF championship back in'84. Big accomplishment for a smaller, newer school to beat league teams like Capo, MV & El Toro & then make a CIF title run


I know.  I pitched against Laguna Hills at their place in 84'.  I believe they were a new High School and just joined the league.  Very nice field like Capos.  We lost 3-1 and Plemel whiffed on my knuckle ball.  He did rip a double on my 75 mhp fast ball in the ally and knocked in two runs.  I pitched the whole game.  Charlie Hough taught me how to throw a four finger knuckle ball.  The ball moved wherever it wanted and it was wild as heck and when I had 3-1 or 3-0 count, it was batting practice.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

Our experience with HS ball is that every school has 3-4 really good, club players.  The rest are decent, club players.  Players that want a club experience but aren't training 6-8 hours per week.  The better high school teams have more good club players, many being ECNL, but they're all club players.

If high school coaches are willing to let the clubs drive the bus, and maybe have 1 practice a week with their high school teammates, I could see this working.  If the high school coaches start making demands on a player's time and commitment, I can see HS ball turning into a non factor at all.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 22, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Our experience with HS ball is that every school has 3-4 really good, club players.  The rest are decent, club players.  Players that want a club experience but aren't training 6-8 hours per week.  The better high school teams have more good club players, many being ECNL, but they're all club players.
> 
> If high school coaches are willing to let the clubs drive the bus, and maybe have 1 practice a week with their high school teammates, I could see this working.  If the high school coaches start making demands on a player's time and commitment, I can see HS ball turning into a non factor at all.


I'm curious to see what ECNL announcement will be. As of today they starting Season as normal, which we all know will not happen.


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## espola (Jul 22, 2020)

soccer5210 said:


> My daughter is a rising senior ECNL player who has decided that she is not interested in playing in college (had been looked at and contacted by some D1s and D2s prior to her decision.) Wants to pursue a medical major and have a “regular” college experience, and realized that soccer would make both of those things so much harder that it wasn’t worth it  to her. That said, ALL she wants is to have a final high school season. She would/will drop club in a split second to be able to play her last high school season. I think there may be more ECNL seniors than you might think who feel the same.


She can still play college club or intramural soccer if the school offers it.


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## gotothebushes (Jul 22, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Every single girl listed above for Cal South played ECNL.  It is just plain ignorant and wrong to think that HS soccer had anything to do with it.  Also no one that is uncommitted and wants to play in college. will chose HS over ECNL if you can’t do both. Also girls need to play for clubs or leagues that use Instat since college recruiting budgets will be slashed for years.


Instat is only offered in GA League correct?


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## Eagle33 (Jul 22, 2020)

Interesting....
https://www.maxpreps.com/news/9owE6mStGkmfVCa5uC44Zg/northern-section-breaks-from-cif,-votes-to-play-fall-sports-as-scheduled.htm


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Interesting....
> https://www.maxpreps.com/news/9owE6mStGkmfVCa5uC44Zg/northern-section-breaks-from-cif,-votes-to-play-fall-sports-as-scheduled.htm


Wow, Nocal stepping up.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 22, 2020)

Dubs said:


> Dude, they did both because they were not scheduled at the same time. ECNL (as I'm sure you know) breaks for HS soccer....which my kid did!


You are stuck in the self pity quagmire..........


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

Dubs said:


> Dude, they did both because they were not scheduled at the same time. ECNL (as I'm sure you know) breaks for HS soccer....which my kid did!


Dubs, I want you to know i appreciate the back and forth and it makes life better and no politics.  First of all, no one is right in this debate and that's ok.  Each player is different.  My dd let her GDA Doc/Coach and ECNL Doc/Coaches know that when she was done playing hs soccer, she would would rest for two weeks.  Some Docs, not all, really hate hs soccer.  I will not mention names but three of them come to mind and they told my dd hs soccer is dangerous, horrible kickball and basically my dd was too good for all that and if she committed her life full time to soccer and school and more soccer, she could make this and that and do this and that if the hard work and commitment was there.  4 days a week, plus training on the exstra days, games every weekend and 5 showcases a year.  My dd did not play full time club soccer by choice. She skipped certain far away showcases. Only full time high school soccer the last two years.  My dd is so rested and pain free.  She does her one on one privates and then is doing a 6 mile hike once a week and then surfing and beach fun.  I say we dont open up soccer until the girls can play a game.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Some Docs, not all, really hate hs soccer.


Exactly!!!


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## Dubs (Jul 22, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> You are stuck in the self pity quagmire..........


??


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## Dubs (Jul 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Dubs, I want you to know i appreciate the back and forth and it makes life better and no politics.  First of all, no one is right in this debate and that's ok.  Each player is different.  My dd let her GDA Doc/Coach and ECNL Doc/Coaches know that when she was done playing hs soccer, she would would rest for two weeks.  Some Docs, not all, really hate hs soccer.  I will not mention names but three of them come to mind and they told my dd hs soccer is dangerous, horrible kickball and basically my dd was too good for all that and if she committed her life full time to soccer and school and more soccer, she could make this and that and do this and that if the hard work and commitment was there.  4 days a week, plus training on the exstra days, games every weekend and 5 showcases a year.  My dd did not play full time club soccer by choice. She skipped certain far away showcases. Only full time high school soccer the last two years.  My dd is so rested and pain free.  She does her one on one privates and then is doing a 6 mile hike once a week and then surfing and beach fun.  I say we dont open up soccer until the girls can play a game.


Well, you could've just said that from the beginning... Like you said, it's a personal decision for any DD.  My DD did enjoy the team/social aspects of HS soccer, but was extremely frustrated by the gameplay even though she excelled and was all league first team and offensive player of the year both years she played.  However, depending on goals, it's not an option for her anymore.  She's just looking to stay injury free as she heads into college...that is of course, assuming we have some kind of season HS or ECNL, which is a very big assumption.


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## Banana Hammock (Jul 22, 2020)

Dubs said:


> Dude, they did both because they were not scheduled at the same time. ECNL (as I'm sure you know) breaks for HS soccer....which my kid did!


Why do you keep answering.  It only encourages....


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

Dubs said:


> Well, *you could've just said that from the beginning*... Like you said, it's a personal decision for any DD.  My DD did enjoy the team/social aspects of HS soccer, but was extremely frustrated by the gameplay even though she excelled and was all league first team and offensive player of the year both years she played.  However, depending on goals, it's not an option for her anymore.  She's just looking to stay injury free as she heads into college...that is of course, assuming we have some kind of season HS or ECNL, which is a very big assumption.


Cool.  I'm sorry if I got triggered by your frustration with hs soccer.  My bad.  My dd looked at it more like a chess match.  The things some girls do to win is insane and I'll leave it at that.  Refs need to do a better job of the rough and dirty plays.  I'm in agreement with you.  If you would have said it was fun for this and that and then mentioned all her frustration together in OP then I would have agreed with you.  No harm no foul bro


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

P.S. Dubs.  Have you watched a local mid level D1 girls soccer college game up close and personal?  Way tougher and rougher than hs, just saying. Ask Maps.  UCLA and Stanford play possession and NC does not and neither do most college programs.  Talk about hack city.......


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Cool.  I'm sorry if I got triggered by your frustration with hs soccer.  My bad.  My dd looked at it more like a chess match.  The things some girls do to win is insane and I'll leave it at that.  Refs need to do a better job of the rough and dirty plays.  I'm in agreement with you.  If you would have said it was fun for this and that and then mentioned all her frustration together in OP then I would have agreed with you.  No harm no foul bro


HS is actually more of a checkers match, Spicoli.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> HS is actually more of a checkers match, Spicoli.


Yes and no.  Again, if your player likes checkers better and hops over or runs through people for the double check, then cool. My dd plays possession and that is a chess match.   She and her coach want to play that way.  Pass from the back and work your way up the field.  Control the match.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Yes and no.  Again, if your player likes checkers better and hops over or runs through people for the double check, then cool. My dd plays possession and that is a chess match.   She and her coach want to play that way.  Pass from the back and work your way up the field.  Control the match.


Possession play is wonderful... unless only 3 of your teammates have that ability.  Then you're going to lose to a kickball team.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Possession play is wonderful... unless only 3 of your teammates have that ability.  Then you're going to lose to a kickball team.


Yes and know.  Some teams try and play like UCLA and others play like NC.  It's called a game match up for a reason.  Each game is different and full of surprises.  Rain and turf or grass.  If winning is #1, then the game and the girls will dictate the style.  So many people whine and moan over hs soccer.  it amazes me to this day.  It's called school pride Outlaw and when some girls put on their hs jersey, school pride and winning comes first, over stylish play and all that.  Unfortunately, girls some times get in cat fights and gets chippy.  Some top players get frustrated and quit and that's ok too.  My dd loves the competitive ganas outlaw.  Do you understand ganas?


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Yes and know.  Some teams try and play like UCLA and others play like NC.  It's called a game match up for a reason.  Each game is different and full of surprises.  Rain and turf or grass.  If winning is #1, then the game and the girls will dictate the style.  So many people whine and moan over hs soccer.  it amazes me to this day.  It's called school pride Outlaw and when some girls put on their hs jersey, school pride and winning comes first, over stylish play and all that.  Unfortunately, girls some times get in cat fights and gets chippy.  Some top players get frustrated and quit and that's ok too.  My dd loves the competitive ganas outlaw.  Do you understand ganas?


No argument about school pride.  Why else WOULD you play?  All we're saying is that, for most schools and regions, the skill level is lower and that leads to more injuries.  The coaching is typically bad and the frustration level increases for stronger players.  And if you've spent years working and sacrificing for the dream of playing at the college level, and some hack comes in and takes your kid out with a cheap shot or late tackle, it's frustrating.  My kid has played for 11 years and never been injured.  First year of HS ball?  Took a late knee to the hip and had to come off.  First time.

My favorite part is club teammates doing battle against each other in HS gear.  Love the post game photos in alternate colors.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> No argument about school pride.  Why else WOULD you play?  All we're saying is that, for most schools and regions, the skill level is lower and that leads to more injuries.  The coaching is typically bad and the frustration level increases for stronger players.  And if you've spent years working and sacrificing for the dream of playing at the college level, and some hack comes in and takes your kid out with a cheap shot or late tackle, it's frustrating.  My kid has played for* 11 years and never been injured*.  First year of HS ball?  Took a late knee to the hip and had to come off.  First time.
> 
> My favorite part is club teammates doing battle against each other in HS gear.  Love the post game photos in alternate colors.


Wow, what level is your player at?  My dd broke a bone in her foot ((hack in club stepped on it)), broke her wrist at ODP tryouts, got a concussion against Surf when she played for Blues.  Let's see, what else can I think of????  Oh ya, had a seizure on the field in OT in the Dallas Cup finals.  1 minute left in OT and she raced down a kickball to try and score and the GK clipped her feet and my dd went flying in the air and had convulsions on the filed.  911 was called and it was gnarly and scary all in one Outlaw.   She was flopping like a fish.  The only time I ever ran on the field.  A doctor from our older sister team was right behind me.  Scariest 2 minutes of my life.  What had actually happen was my dd got the win knocked out of her and needed to breath.  She tried to go back in but we pulled her out 100%.  She had other injuries in her career but she played through them I think.  I can;t imagine playing soccer for 11 years and never getting injured if you play with ganas.


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## lafalafa (Jul 22, 2020)

HS sports is what you make of them.

There are somewhat of urban myths behind the hoopla that it's more risky or the level is not good enough, or the coaching is non existed.    

With 2 players already in/through college and a upcoming HS senior high school sports have been great for our kids.  Way more injuries for our daughter ECNL teams compared to HS,  oldest son didn't notice any difference nor for the younger.   They both have had college coaches and other scouts out to see them during HS play.  

Coaching was never a issue and heck if your good enough should be dominating the so called lower level players.   Do the two man crews miss somethings sure they do buy good players learn how to adapt to whatever style of play or player

Learning different styles playing vs different players and challenging oneself is normally a positive and HS players can take leadership roles playing with the mixed ages, helps in preparation for later life where everyone is not  the same age, on the same page.

club soccer is great to and  fun also but it's almost a isolated type of deal where your don't get that many outside opportunities and it's a closed ecosystem for the most part.


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## GT45 (Jul 22, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I'm curious to see what ECNL announcement will be. As of today they starting Season as normal, which we all know will not happen.


I don't think ECNL will make one beyond what they already have. That you are to abide by local and state requirements. ECNL around the country does not operate on the same schedule. Some conferences play winter and spring seasons because their HS soccer is played in the fall. Some do what we usually do (fall/spring seasons with HS in the winter), and some do fall/winter (with HS in the spring). So it is really up to the conferences to set their schedule.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Wow, what level is your player at?  My dd broke a bone in her foot ((hack in club stepped on it)), broke her wrist at ODP tryouts, got a concuision against Surf when she played for Blues.  Let's see, what else can I think of????  Oh ya, had a seizure on the field in OT in the Dallas Cup finals.  1 minute left in OT and she raced down a kickball to try and score and the GK clipped her feet and my dd went flying in the air and had conversions on the filed.  911 was called and it was gnarly and scary all in one Outlaw.   She was flopping like a fish.  The only time I ever ran on the field.  A doctor from our older sister team was right behind me.  Scariest 2 minutes of my life.  What had actually happen was my dd got the win knocked out of her and needed to breath.  She tried to go back in but we pulled her out 100%.  She had other injuries but she played through them I think.  I can;t imagine playing soccer for 11 years and never getting injured if you play with ganas.


Daughter plays NPL and we've played many of your heavy, SoCal hitters at Surf.  My kid is big, though, so others tend to pull up when going head to head with her.  

She has friends and teammates that are barely hanging on, though, because of injuries... especially knees.  Ganas is great until it ends your career.


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## EOTL (Jul 22, 2020)

Stephen A smith said:


> Exactly why the mens teams don't qualify for the WC. The system is set up for the the ones that can afford it. That doesn't mean they are the best. Then you see clubs Taking money from the government and parents. I doubt they give any back. On top of that they are holding camps. It's all greed


Huh? The PPP was specifically designed to help keep small businesses like youth soccer clubs afloat. These clubs have obviously been among the most severely impacted by the pandemic, and they actually provide a service to children. I’m having a hard time thinking of many businesses that are more deserving since they at least help kids. Contrast them with publicly-traded for profit businesses that are taking millions in PPP loans.

This narrative that youth soccer clubs are power hungry greedy businesses that don’t care about kids is tiresome and complete b.s. Virtually all of them are doing the best they can to survive. The vast majority are trying to provide services as best they can within restrictive shelter in place or social distancing rules, and they’re entitled to be paid for that. Soccer coaches in particular have been severely hurt by the pandemic in that they weren’t making much to begin with and most then went to nothing.

If you don’t want to pay for the limited services they can provide right now, don’t, or go somewhere else where you will get what you pay for.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> HS sports is what you make of them.
> 
> There are somewhat of urban myths behind the hoopla that it's more risky or the level is not good enough, or the coaching is non existed.
> 
> ...


Excellent takes on hs soccer.  I know where the Urban myths come and I know why their said.  If my dd would have stayed in Temecula and went to that charter school called TPS, then she would have played D7.  I swear as God as my witness she would not have bailed on her classmates and school.  She played in 8th grade with them and her club coach was not all too happy.  My dd was the coach on the field and tried to play possession because that's what her club preached.  When they needed a few goals, she would try and score.  It was rough but she had so mucg fun.  We actually sat next to some parents from a little school in Hemet and my dd was playing really good, like a Cat playing with a mouse.  The other parents were so rude.  "Go back to club, you don;t belong here."  Her club coach telling her please dont play middle school soccer.  She came to her old man for advice.  "Daddy, what should I do?"  I told her to do what your heart desires and I will support you 100%.  I did say they will hack her and it wont be anything like Surf and you have a high chance of getting hurt and never playing again.  She went to school the next day and came home and said she's playing with her friends from school.  Half played local club like Hawks, Legends South and Temecula United.  We had a good little team.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Daughter plays NPL and we've played many of your heavy, SoCal hitters at Surf.  My kid is big, though, so others tend to pull up when going head to head with her.
> 
> She has friends and teammates that are barely hanging on, though, because of injuries... especially knees.  Ganas is great until it ends your career.


She is very fortunate to be big and never get hurt playing club.  First parent I've heard that from.  Again, that's super awesome


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> HS sports is what you make of them.
> 
> There are somewhat of urban myths behind the hoopla that it's more risky or the level is not good enough, or the coaching is non existed.
> 
> ...


There's more comp injuries because the high school season is 2-3 months long.  I was lucky... my high school coach was a former college player, but many of these kids play for the teacher willing to take $3k extra, per year, to sacrifice his/her weeknights.


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## EOTL (Jul 22, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Interesting....
> https://www.maxpreps.com/news/9owE6mStGkmfVCa5uC44Zg/northern-section-breaks-from-cif,-votes-to-play-fall-sports-as-scheduled.htm


Yeah! I love a fight!


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## socalkdg (Jul 22, 2020)

Question about CIF this year in the spring.   I've read you can play club and HS for soccer.   Can you play two sports in HS at the same time this year? Daughter wants to run track besides play soccer.   HS games are Wed /  Fri while track meets were Thursday.


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## Grace T. (Jul 22, 2020)

Hey another small ray of sunshine for those of you with kids in private or charter middle school.  The state health officials seem to indicate that the footnote waiver (the one allowing elementary schools to seek a waiver) may also appliy to middle schools.  If your private or charter elementary or middle school doesn't know, you can them a heads up.  For the public schools it seems they are SOL because an objection from a community group (such as the teacher's union) seems to be interpreted as enough not to get the waiver.









						California districts can seek waiver for elementary schools from ban on in-school instruction
					

County health directors would decide whether to allow small groups of students into schools or open up districts in remote corners of counties.




					edsource.org


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## espola (Jul 22, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Question about CIF this year in the spring.   I've read you can play club and HS for soccer.   Can you play two sports in HS at the same time this year? Daughter wants to run track besides play soccer.   HS games are Wed /  Fri while track meets were Thursday.


Will the two coaches agree?  My son's team had a backup keeper who was also on the A wrestling squad,  He came to soccer practice when schedule allowed and played in soccer games that did not interfere with the wrestling match schedule. He didn't make many appearances in soccer, but he made it to the state wrestling meet finals in his weight, losing in OT.


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## full90 (Jul 22, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Question about CIF this year in the spring.   I've read you can play club and HS for soccer.   Can you play two sports in HS at the same time this year? Daughter wants to run track besides play soccer.   HS games are Wed /  Fri while track meets were Thursday.


you could always play two high school sports at once. There’s a time cap for the week and both coaches obviously have to agree to it but it’s allowed. Your school/district might have a different rule but according to CIF it’s allowed.

will be interesting if anyone tries to do spring hs soccer, club soccer and hs track. With no more DA our kid was thinking club soccer, then hs soccer then back to club soccer in the spring and maybe add track if the hs coach would be flexible. But if ecnl is happening in spring our focus will be there and getting exposure. What a mess. Feel badly for these kids. Not that they are owed a fair life but a fun high school experience sure is a great rite of passage. I feel for all the seniors this year. Ugh.


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## Traore (Jul 22, 2020)

It will be interesting to see if ECNL proceeds with the spring season in conflict with the CIF high school season.

Cal South moved their season around to accommodate the new CIF schedule.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

full90 said:


> you could always play two high school sports at once. There’s a time cap for the week and both coaches obviously have to agree to it but it’s allowed. Your school/district might have a different rule but according to CIF it’s allowed.
> 
> will be interesting if anyone tries to do spring hs soccer, club soccer and hs track. With no more DA our kid was thinking club soccer, then hs soccer then back to club soccer in the spring and maybe add track if the hs coach would be flexible. But if ecnl is happening in spring our focus will be there and getting exposure. What a mess. Feel badly for these kids. Not that they are owed a fair life but a fun high school experience sure is a great rite of passage. I feel for all the seniors this year. Ugh.


Is there a Jo Jackson for the girls?


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## Eagle33 (Jul 22, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Question about CIF this year in the spring.   I've read you can play club and HS for soccer.   Can you play two sports in HS at the same time this year? Daughter wants to run track besides play soccer.   HS games are Wed /  Fri while track meets were Thursday.


HS soccer and track will work at the same time. Simple reason would be track (for the most part) is an individual sport and you can be training with soccer team and compete at track events. The only thing you will need to have track training if you are running relays.


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## espola (Jul 22, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> HS soccer and track will work at the same time. Simple reason would be track (for the most part) is an individual sport and you can be training with soccer team and compete at track events. The only thing you will need to have track training if you are running relays.


Not necessarily - jumping and throwing events benefit from knowledgeable coaching, and any distances beyond sprints can benefit from strategic thinking in planning final kicks.


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## futboldad1 (Jul 22, 2020)

Traore said:


> It will be interesting to see if ECNL proceeds with the spring season in conflict with the CIF high school season.
> 
> Cal South moved their season around to accommodate the new CIF schedule.


FWIW it seems very obvious to me that ECNL will proceed with the spring season....... only covid can stop it


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## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> FWIW it seems very obvious to me that ECNL will proceed with the spring season....... only covid can stop it


Let's hope Labor Day Surfers Only Cup ((no posers...lol)) and then ECNL fall ball.  Futbol dad of 1, I want it all for my goat and you know that.  A little bit of everything is good for the young mind


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## notintheface (Jul 22, 2020)

soccer5210 said:


> My daughter is a rising senior ECNL player who has decided that she is not interested in playing in college (had been looked at and contacted by some D1s and D2s prior to her decision.) Wants to pursue a medical major and have a “regular” college experience, and realized that soccer would make both of those things so much harder that it wasn’t worth it  to her. That said, ALL she wants is to have a final high school season. She would/will drop club in a split second to be able to play her last high school season. I think there may be more ECNL seniors than you might think who feel the same.


Yes yes yes yes yes. This times a million. These kids have played for their clubs for however many years and seen kids come and go; for their high schools, they may be playing with kids they've known for 10+ years, and it'll be the last hurrah before everyone goes their separate ways. A lot of kids will jump at that.


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## Copa9 (Jul 22, 2020)

Patandpats said:


> Lots of great players in high school and they are getting recruited.  Here are the TDS all region teams and their commitments. Some pretty great schools.
> 
> *CALIFORNIA-NORTH
> [Includes the Central Coast, North Coast, Sac-Joaquin and Northern sections]*
> ...


Almost all of them play club.


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## Copa9 (Jul 22, 2020)

jpeter said:


> Our daughter is now a college sophomore,  loved her senior HS year but it was normal and played ECNL also.
> 
> Everyone had college offers including her but she went the medical route and got a bunch of sholarships outside sports.  She still participated in athletics intramural so it was working well until the shutdown.


What high school? They all got college offers for soccer?


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## Copa9 (Jul 22, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> HS soccer and track will work at the same time. Simple reason would be track (for the most part) is an individual sport and you can be training with soccer team and compete at track events. The only thing you will need to have track training if you are running relays.


Unless football plays in the spring.


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## socalkdg (Jul 22, 2020)

full90 said:


> will be interesting if anyone tries to do spring hs soccer, club soccer and hs track. With no more DA our kid was thinking club soccer, then hs soccer then back to club soccer in the spring and maybe add track if the hs coach would be flexible. But if ecnl is happening in spring our focus will be there and getting exposure. What a mess. Feel badly for these kids. Not that they are owed a fair life but a fun high school experience sure is a great rite of passage. I feel for all the seniors this year. Ugh.


That is what my daughter wants to do, but she is a keeper, thus not as much running in soccer, so running a couple heats and maybe one practice wouldn't be the end of the world.


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## Simisoccerfan (Jul 22, 2020)

Everyone that has their kid play some sort of club soccer (including ECNL) at the same time as HS this spring is nuts!  Any HS aged kid should not be playing more than 1 game per week.  Kids need recovery time.  Playing three or four games per week plus practice is a recipe for both bad soccer without being able to give full effort and for injury.  Ideally everyone should be playing no more than 1 game per week.  That includes college if they can ever get the 21st Century model implemented.


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## futboldad1 (Jul 23, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Everyone that has their kid play some sort of club soccer (including ECNL) at the same time as HS this spring is nuts!  Any HS aged kid should not be playing more than 1 game per week.  Kids need recovery time.  Playing three or four games per week plus practice is a recipe for both bad soccer without being able to give full effort and for injury.  Ideally everyone should be playing no more than 1 game per week.  That includes college if they can ever get the 21st Century model implemented.


2 games per week works for pros in Europe so I'm good with it....... don't like two games in one day like at tourneys though.... that's not good for anyone older than 12.........


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## full90 (Jul 23, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> 2 games per week works for pros in Europe so I'm good with it....... don't like two games in one day like at tourneys though.... that's not good for anyone older than 12.........


we are saying it’s two high school games in a week (maybe 3) plus a club game on the weekend. And these kids are not pros. They aren’t trained like pros and don’t have the bodies of pros.


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## futboldad1 (Jul 23, 2020)

full90 said:


> we are saying it’s two high school games in a week (maybe 3) plus a club game on the weekend. And these kids are not pros. They aren’t trained like pros and don’t have the bodies of pros.


That's clearly too many as it is 3-4 games total...... I'm disagreeing with Simi saying 1 per week is all there should be...... youths can actually play more with less injury risk than 30 year old pros..... 2 total games per week is all good imho


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## Ellejustus (Jul 23, 2020)

No one in their right mind would play 3-4 games in a week.  That is 100% coo coo.  This is all new so it will be all worked out.  My guess HS soccer will have two games a week and ECNL will pause a little and maybe have a game here and there.  My dd wont play full games and if one team is not that good, she can sit out one and let someone else play the whole game.  HS Soccer she wont sit out so it will probably come down to sitting out ECNL games or just playing less. This is so doable everyone.  I jumped on Dubs ((sorry dude, just wanted to have some sports debate and feel normal.  I saw some teams last year in HS that sucked and played Rugby so I get it)) and made my crush of high school sports be known.  All my dd friends play big time CIF sports and her sport is the only sport that is mocked by coaches outside of hs.  I get it and I completely understand what's at stake.


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## Speed (Jul 23, 2020)

full90 said:


> we are saying it’s two high school games in a week (maybe 3) plus a club game on the weekend. And these kids are not pros. They aren’t trained like pros and don’t have the bodies of pros.


and don't have the trainers as the pros


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## Eagle33 (Jul 24, 2020)

Speed said:


> and don't have the trainers as the pros


As far as I know, every HS varsity game must have a trainer present


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