# ASD Loyal takes a stand



## espola (Oct 1, 2020)

Loyal SC Walks Off Pitch After Opposing Player Uses Homophobic Slur
					

The San Diego Loyal SC has once again taken a stand against hate. The club walked off the pitch Wednesday night after a player on the Phoenix Rising directed a homophobic slur at Loyal player Collin Martin, Loyal SC tweeted. “Last week we made it loud and clear that we do not stand for racism or...




					www.nbcsandiego.com


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## Anon9 (Oct 1, 2020)

Pussies. In my time, no game would have made it to the end.


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## Woobie06 (Oct 1, 2020)

espola said:


> Loyal SC Walks Off Pitch After Opposing Player Uses Homophobic Slur
> 
> 
> The San Diego Loyal SC has once again taken a stand against hate. The club walked off the pitch Wednesday night after a player on the Phoenix Rising directed a homophobic slur at Loyal player Collin Martin, Loyal SC tweeted. “Last week we made it loud and clear that we do not stand for racism or...
> ...


Read that article this morning.  Good for them for taking a stand as a team.  No place for that crap.  I read how the LAGII player from the previous week mutually decided to part ways after doing something similar. That’s one way to do it....

The other, up 3-1 is continue to dominate, win the game, embarrass them, move on, and communicate after the game what happened, and bring attention to it that way...bring attention to the shitbag that said it.

I could not imagine an MLS team or any other major pro team exiting a game, walking off the field in an elimination match/game or any game.  Probably will happen in this “woke” world we find ourselves in.  Too much at stake.  There are always going to be shitbags out there...don’t let the shitbag force you to take your marbles and go home...force the shitbag to leave.


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## crush (Oct 1, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Read that article this morning.  Good for them for taking a stand as a team.  No place for that crap.  I read how the LAGII player from the previous week mutually decided to part ways after doing something similar. That’s one way to do it....
> 
> The other, up 3-1 is continue to dominate, win the game, embarrass them, move on, and communicate after the game what happened, and bring attention to it that way...bring attention to the shitbag that said it.
> 
> I could not imagine an MLS team or any other major pro team exiting a game, walking off the field in an elimination match/game or any game.  Probably will happen in this “woke” world we find ourselves in.  Too much at stake.  There are always going to be shitbags out there...don’t let the shitbag force you to take your marbles and go home...force the shitbag to leave.


I say kick their ass on the field and get that point but that's how I rolled when I was a kid.  I would have gathered the team together and told Colin we have your back and let's kick their asses right now.  Walking off the field and losing playoff point is rough.  I was called a lot worse things when I played ball btw.  Revenge on the field is the only place to win imo.  The player accused of using homophobic language put out a statement and is 100% saying he never said such a thing and he's getting hammered online.  Landon is an interesting person.  I hope we can get back to soccer and keep all this stuff out of the game.  Their is a way to handle things on the field.  Maybe those days are over for good.


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## Woobie06 (Oct 1, 2020)

crush said:


> I say kick their ass on the field and get that point but that's how I rolled when I was a kid.  I would have gathered the team together and told Colin we have your back and let's kick their asses right now.  Walking off the field and losing playoff point is rough.  I was called a lot worse things when I played ball btw.  Revenge on the field is the only place to win imo.  The player accused of using homophobic language put out a statement and is 100% saying he never said such a thing and he's getting hammered online.  Landon is an interesting person.  I hope we can get back to soccer and keep all this stuff out of the game.  Their is a way to handle things on the field.  Maybe those days are over for good.


I agree I was called a bunch of stuff as well as my mother, sister, etc. back in the day.  Not saying it was right.  Different world we live in today...many people are very sensitive, on edge, woke, and offended by just about anything that is said.  You gotta be careful what you say, because your opinion, belief, or perspective can get you in hot water if somebody finds it “offensive” or if it is different from theirs.


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## Emma (Oct 1, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Read that article this morning.  Good for them for taking a stand as a team.  No place for that crap.  I read how the LAGII player from the previous week mutually decided to part ways after doing something similar. That’s one way to do it....
> 
> The other, up 3-1 is continue to dominate, win the game, embarrass them, move on, and communicate after the game what happened, and bring attention to it that way...bring attention to the shitbag that said it.
> 
> I could not imagine an MLS team or any other major pro team exiting a game, walking off the field in an elimination match/game or any game.  Probably will happen in this “woke” world we find ourselves in.  Too much at stake.  There are always going to be shitbags out there...don’t let the shitbag force you to take your marbles and go home...force the shitbag to leave.


Refreshing as I hear too many selfish justifications not to do the right thing these days. "Loyal head coach Landon Donovan's said giving up the point would likely keep them out of the playoffs, but said he's not worried about that if it means *doing the right thing.*"

For decades, players have just played through this type of "crap" and tried to support each other but it didn't change the leagues.  A meaningful action like this, where it does decide a playoff spot, may actually bring change to the league and sports culture.

Their protest is not "a jerk said crap" but because the league did nothing to punish the action.  Referees heard it but ignored it like they did in the previous game.  An ejection from the game, fine and suspension would have been the right move and  prevented the walk off.  I hear this type of talk in youth soccer games by parents, coaches, and players.  Referees ignore it all the time while it happens during the game.  How many times have we told our kids to just deal with it because that's the way the world is.  "That crazy soccer mom/dad/player is just jealous of your skills kid!" Maybe it doesn't need to be that way. 

Good for the Loyals. Trying to find a peaceful solution and willing to sacrifice for it.  Do as Jesus would.


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## espola (Oct 1, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Read that article this morning.  Good for them for taking a stand as a team.  No place for that crap.  I read how the LAGII player from the previous "Players and both team coaches reportedly heard the slur but the match referees did nothing about it," the club said.week mutually decided to part ways after doing something similar. That’s one way to do it....
> 
> The other, up 3-1 is continue to dominate, win the game, embarrass them, move on, and communicate after the game what happened, and bring attention to it that way...bring attention to the shitbag that said it.
> 
> I could not imagine an MLS team or any other major pro team exiting a game, walking off the field in an elimination match/game or any game.  Probably will happen in this “woke” world we find ourselves in.  Too much at stake.  There are always going to be shitbags out there...don’t let the shitbag force you to take your marbles and go home...force the shitbag to leave.


"Players and both team coaches reportedly heard the slur but the match referees did nothing about it," the club said.


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## El Clasico (Oct 1, 2020)

I am curious, does the ref need to hear a slur or can someone just whisper it to another player?  So if any team is losing on the scoreboard, they just have to whisper a slur in the opposing player's ear and the Loyals will forfeit? Hmm? Should be interesting since whispering in someone's ear is a lot easier than scoring a goal.


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## Woobie06 (Oct 1, 2020)

Emma said:


> Refreshing as I hear too many selfish justifications not to do the right thing these days. "Loyal head coach Landon Donovan's said giving up the point would likely keep them out of the playoffs, but said he's not worried about that if it means *doing the right thing.*"
> 
> For decades, players have just played through this type of "crap" and tried to support each other but it didn't change the leagues.  A meaningful action like this, where it does decide a playoff spot, may actually bring change to the league and sports culture.
> 
> ...


I’m not disagreeing with you.  They definitely stood up for what they believe in.  I support that.  As a group, they decided this was the right thing to do for them.  I guess, for me, I’m not going let an asshole take something or ruin something for me that I have worked hard to build or earn.  There are many things that happen in life that are wrong, people who are dishonest, mean, say reprehensible crap, etc. Does not mean I’m taking my marbles and going home in protest - this goes for both personal and business lives.


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## Woobie06 (Oct 1, 2020)

espola said:


> "Players and both team coaches reportedly heard the slur but the match referees did nothing about it," the club said.


I’m not denying it was said...or supporting it...or saying their choice to walk off was wrong...Personally I’d be calling out the other coach, refs, etc...the league...I’m just saying I would not have walked off and let a shitbag take something from me.  There are many ways to go about fighting against something that is wrong.  Walking off in protest is one way, not the only way.

There was something similar in the NBA recently where one player said something to another, it was racial, heard by many and it was worked out. Nobody walked off the court, people took responsibility, and moved on.

Not everything needs a be a social justice movement...some people are just assholes, need to be called on it...hopefully they learn and change...always going to be assholes in the world.  No cure for that.


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## Emma (Oct 1, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> I’m not disagreeing with you.  They definitely stood up for what they believe in.  I support that.  As a group, they decided this was the right thing to do for them.  I guess, for me, I’m not going let an asshole take something or ruin something for me that I have worked hard to build or earn.  There are many things that happen in life that are wrong, people who are dishonest, mean, say reprehensible crap, etc. Does not mean I’m taking my marbles and going home in protest - this goes for both personal and business lives.


I agree with your philosophy and most of the time on a daily basis, I follow this.  However, if it's a problem that CAN be fixed by changing the rules simply by amplify it in a spotlight without violence, one should.  As we talk in our team meetings, we always discuss - is this a one off shit thing we have to deal with or does this happen often enough that we have to find a solution to it?  Is there a possible short term & long term solution? Obviously they tried one way last week and it didn't work.  Hopefully this will bring about a long term solution.

You think they lost?  I don't.  Sometimes you have to lose the small fish to catch the big fish. 
Maybe the USL will do the right thing too - make the appropriate rule changes, then grant the win to the Loyals so they can move forward.  Phoenix owner can also come forth and agree to forfeit in light of the situation.  Ahh...a world where we actually do the right things and not the right thing for our individual selves only.


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## zags77 (Oct 1, 2020)

LD earned a lot of respect from me on this leadership.....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311553192711184385


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## foreveryoung (Oct 1, 2020)

Emma said:


> Ahh...a world where we actually do the right things and not the right thing for our individual selves only.


Unfortunately this is no longer a cultural value in our country, in case you haven't noticed.


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## Woobie06 (Oct 1, 2020)

Emma said:


> I agree with your philosophy and most of the time on a daily basis, I follow this.  However, if it's a problem that CAN be fixed by changing the rules simply by amplify it in a spotlight without violence, one should.  As we talk in our team meetings, we always discuss - is this a one off shit thing we have to deal with or does this happen often enough that we have to find a solution to it?  Is there a possible short term & long term solution? Obviously they tried one way last week and it didn't work.  Hopefully this will bring about a long term solution.
> 
> You think they lost?  I don't.  Sometimes you have to lose the small fish to catch the big fish.
> Maybe the USL will do the right thing too - make the appropriate rule changes, then grant the win to the Loyals so they can move forward.  Phoenix owner can also come forth and agree to forfeit in light of the situation.  Ahh...a world where we actually do the right things and not the right thing for our individual selves only.


I agree with almost all of what you said. There needs to be rules, the rules need to be followed, and the rules need to be enforced with consequences. Reminds me a lot of what is going on now in our country.

We disagree on the approach in this situation.  I respect your opinion, and the way they handled the situation as a group, it is just not the way I would have gone about it.


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## outside! (Oct 1, 2020)

foreveryoung said:


> Unfortunately this is no longer a cultural value in our country, in case you haven't noticed.


In the LAG II game, the LAG coaches admitted they heard the racial slur, yet did nothing during the game. In addition to terminating the player, there need to be some form of public consequences for the coaching staff. The refs also heard the slur and did nothing. There need to be public consequences for them also.

In the Phoenix game, the Phoenix coach can be heard saying something along the lines of "it's part of the game". At this point we do not know if the Phoenix coaching staff heard the homophobic slur. There needs to be an investigation and consequences within the organization. USL needs to step up as well.

I commend SD Loyal for standing up for their principals. I believe this situation will gain them more fans than winning some soccer games.


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## Anon9 (Oct 1, 2020)

You guys are all going crazy about “batty boy”? Did you guys even know what that meant before this? Even in the article, it says it is used as a “homophobic slur” in Jamaica. Any word that is not favorable to some folks is now declared a “homophobic slur”.


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## Emma (Oct 1, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> I agree with almost all of what you said. There needs to be rules, the rules need to be followed, and the rules need to be enforced with consequences. Reminds me a lot of what is going on now in our country.
> 
> We disagree on the approach in this situation.  I respect your opinion, and the way they handled the situation as a group, it is just not the way I would have gone about it.


I also respect your opinion and I can see why you would choose not to.  This is what most of America is all about.  We agree on almost everything, just the minor details on how to do it.  We've blown things out of proportion and act like we are so different but we're not.  We all want what's best for the country and most of us, for all of humanity. 

Donovan handled it pretty well.  He investigated and confirmed it was said.  He asked the ref to do something about it, ref didn't.  He asked the opposing coach to do something about it, opposing coach didn't.  Donovan and his team did something about it, peacefully.  

Hopefully following this event, there will be rules in the USL going forward and the rules will be enforced with consequences. 

I also agree with you that some people make a political stance out of everything for their own benefit and it's becoming a nuisance.  There's always going to be people who try to take advantage and then ruin it for everyone else.  Those are the people I choose to ignore. Sometimes it's hard to bc it feels like those people make the most noise and are the loudest.


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## espola (Oct 1, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> I agree with almost all of what you said. There needs to be rules, the rules need to be followed, and the rules need to be enforced with consequences. Reminds me a lot of what is going on now in our country.
> 
> We disagree on the approach in this situation.  I respect your opinion, and the way they handled the situation as a group, it is just not the way I would have gone about it.


Would you have asked the referee to handle it?  Would you have asked the opposing coach to handle it?


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## whatithink (Oct 1, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> You guys are all going crazy about “batty boy”? Did you guys even know what that meant before this? Even in the article, it says it is used as a “homophobic slur” in Jamaica. Any word that is not favorable to some folks is now declared a “homophobic slur”.


What's your point exactly? 

One player directed a homophobic slur against another player who is homosexual. The referee confirmed that he heard the slur, but didn't know what it meant.

It wasn't directed at "you guys" on this forum or "some folk". It was directed at someone who knew exactly what it meant. 

So is that cool with you? Would it be ok with you if he had directed a homophobic slur that is more main stream? Would that have been OK?

Why should anyone at their place of work be expected to accept abuse due to who they are, be it their sexual orientation or race or religion etc.?

The guy who said it obviously knew what had happened the week before and was going to participate in a 71st minute "action" because that racist slur was and is unacceptable. Then he does this, like what the absolute fuck!

So back to my question, what's your point exactly?


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## youthsportsugghhh (Oct 1, 2020)

Just because we went through it or said it doesn't make it "right". Evolution -- I love talking trash, but racist and homophobic types of things are out of bounds like moms and sisters. They probably always should have been but weren't and just because someone doesn't know what it means doesn't mean it is ok to direct it at someone. Obviously people in the competition did, so it's meaning had impact.
Personally I agree with the continue to beat them down in the game and then make it public after mentality, but with Landon's explanation I can respect that from a team perspective what they did. It is also soccer and anything can happen, you lose and then bring it up after the game seems like sour grapes. Like everything else there are grey areas in life where we make the best decisions we can at the time and when that decision is done at your expense to the betterment of a team or society it should be respected.


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## Simisoccerfan (Oct 1, 2020)

Tremendous respect for LD and the Loyal.  Rare that someone takes action in today's world.   Yes they could have ignored it and then this topic would never get the attention it deserves.


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## Woobie06 (Oct 1, 2020)

espola said:


> Would you have asked the referee to handle it?  Would you have asked the opposing coach to handle it?


1. As a coach/manager, I would have gotten them both involved during the game and would have attempted to make the point and get action taken. I would have exhausted the options available to me during the game to escalate and resolve. I’m sure this was done.

2. As a player, the remainder of the game would have been very difficult for the offender.  You take care of your own.  It’s pro sports.  It happens.

3. As an Owner/Exec there would be escalations to the league office, other owner, etc. for resolution/change, call for an owners meeting, push at that level.  Probably happening now.

But I would not have pulled the team from the game.  Respect what they did.  Just not what I would have done.

Pick away...


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## espola (Oct 1, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> 1. As a coach/manager, I would have gotten them both involved during the game and would have attempted to make the point and get action taken. I would have exhausted the options available to me during the game to escalate and resolve. I’m sure this was done.
> 
> 2. As a player, the remainder of the game would have been very difficult for the offender.  You take care of your own.  It’s pro sports.  It happens.
> 
> ...


Did you watch Landon Donovan's video included in one of the previous responses?

It appears that your option 2 suggests violence be directed towards the offender/  Is that really what you m=ean by "take care of your own"?


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## Giesbock (Oct 1, 2020)

crush said:


> I say kick their ass on the field and get that point but that's how I rolled when I was a kid.  I would have gathered the team together and told Colin we have your back and let's kick their asses right now.  Walking off the field and losing playoff point is rough.  I was called a lot worse things when I played ball btw.  Revenge on the field is the only place to win imo.  The player accused of using homophobic language put out a statement and is 100% saying he never said such a thing and he's getting hammered online.  Landon is an interesting person.  I hope we can get back to soccer and keep all this stuff out of the game.  Their is a way to handle things on the field.  Maybe those days are over for good.


Appreciate what you’re saying about how it was when you played ball.  And Woobie06 touches on the same thing when he says “back in the day”. And Anon calls everyone out using a sex slur. 

This is the old boy network that defended, legitimized, condoned and abetted bigotry in all its forms for years.  

Landon’s gesture as a team isn’t to be trifled with. In my opinion, it was doing the right thing.  You can’t play on and smack the offending player /team down by beating them.  That’s ignoring it and brushing it under the rug.

The head ref who apparently heard it should have brought down the red card at the very least. The Phoenix coach who apparently heard it should have pulled the player and if he was in the same moral space as Coach D, he would have pulled the plug and not force San Diego to do it for him.

Nothing easy here but to fight the bullying, racism, homophobia, pettiness that all of us see every day, we cannot brush it aside by talking about how it would have been handled in the past.


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## whatithink (Oct 1, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Nothing easy here but to fight the bullying, racism, homophobia, pettiness that all of us see every day, we cannot brush it aside by talking about how it would have been handled in the past.


Well said, and the fact that its still prevalent today just proves categorically that how it was "handled" in the past didn't work at all.

My son has played on and still plays on pretty diverse teams, white, Hispanic & African American. Since U9 (he's U16 now), every season has seen at least one of the Hispanic or African American kids be subject to a racial slur (a min of one incident a year, sometimes more), locally and on travel tournaments out of state. It took until game 4 this season, 1st game of the second tournament. And those are only the ones he knows about because he heard directly or was told by the player. In one instance only was a player red carded for it because the ref heard .. and the ref did that after the game was over for reasons known only to the ref.


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## full90 (Oct 1, 2020)

As it happened I was like come on just keep playing, beat them on the field. But 10 min later I agreed with Landon and the decision of the team. 
we can’t keep normalizing these comments and slurs that punish marginalized groups. Ignoring it and solving it with a two footed tackle doesn’t work. Ignoring it and drumming them 7-1 doesn’t work. So let’s go nuclear and walk off. Maybe the ensuing pressure will enact change.


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## crush (Oct 1, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Appreciate what you’re saying about how it was when you played ball.  And Woobie06 touches on the same thing when he says “back in the day”. And Anon calls everyone out using a sex slur.
> 
> This is the old boy network that defended, legitimized, condoned and abetted bigotry in all its forms for years.
> 
> ...


Your opinion is always right and so be it.  I'm not a part of some old boy network either pal.....lol.  I had gay teammates and yes, we would have dealt with it differently and I mean that 100%.  On the field and that's just a way.  Our way in the old days or this teams way is just two ways of dealing with it.  You can be right all you want.  I'm not so sure their is one right way but you can be right and that's ok with me.  I also played my sports at Laguna Beach high School in the early 80s.  We were called names all the time and we dealt with it on the field.  Again, I'm playing for the playoffs.  I will say if my team of yesteryear all decided to walk off because of one jerk, I would go with my team.


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## Woobie06 (Oct 1, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Appreciate what you’re saying about how it was when you played ball.  And Woobie06 touches on the same thing when he says “back in the day”. And Anon calls everyone out using a sex slur.
> 
> This is the old boy network that defended, legitimized, condoned and abetted bigotry in all its forms for years.
> 
> ...



It’s not the old boy network, and I don’t condone racial slurs, homophobic slurs or the like.  Just pointing out it was very different a couple decades ago, people were tuned differently.  You can’t Hello to some today without offending some people.  Everyone has their own sensitivity meter.  Not condoning what happened in the least.

It’s a USL game...it’s newsworthy because LD was involved.

Want to make a difference, get people to notice...see the NFL, NBA, or MLB Teams walk off....have heard the smack talked in these sports?

What the individual said was wrong on so many levels, but it is going to take much more than words from an immature, uneducated, classless asshat to get me to give up on something I have worked for.  Like I said, respect and support what they did.  Their choice as a team.  Would not have been my choice.

@espola not condoning or advocating violence.  Just saying that players on teams have each other’s back.  Some people only learn by touching a hot stove.  It’s Pro Sports, every sport does it...do you want fighting removed from Hockey, High Inside Pitches being automatic ejections in Baseball?

Its actually a funny rebuttal from you because unless I got things wrong, I was under the impression you had no problem with all the peaceful non-violent protests going on.  If I got you confused with somebody, my apologies.


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## espola (Oct 1, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> It’s not the old boy network, and I don’t condone racial slurs, homophobic slurs or the like.  Just pointing out it was very different a couple decades ago, people were tuned differently.  You can’t Hello to some today without offending some people.  Everyone has their own sensitivity meter.  Not condoning what happened in the least.
> 
> It’s a USL game...it’s newsworthy because LD was involved.
> 
> ...


"not advocating violence", but your examples are hockey fights and beanballs.

I don't understand your last paragraph at all.  The Loyal walk-off was peaceful and non-violent, and has attracted national attention to the issue.


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## Giesbock (Oct 1, 2020)

Crush and Woobie - I referred to your comments because they’re 100% valid and took them as a good starting point to express my opinion.  Not meant as an attack.  Yeah, I was right there with you turning a blind eye, shrugging it off, plenty of gay friends, and trying like heck to be part of the solution.  I definitely applaud Landon Donovan and his teammates taking the stand.


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## Woobie06 (Oct 1, 2020)

espola said:


> "not advocating violence", but your examples are hockey fights and beanballs.
> 
> I don't understand your last paragraph at all.  The Loyal walk-off was peaceful and non-violent, and has attracted national attention to the issue.


You were saying I’m condoning violence...I thought you said you support all the peaceful non-violent protests (where many are not peaceful)...I found that funny.


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## Woobie06 (Oct 1, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Crush and Woobie - I referred to your comments because they’re 100% valid and took them as a good starting point to express my opinion.  Not meant as an attack.  Yeah, I was right there with you turning a blind eye, shrugging it off, plenty of gay friends, and trying like heck to be part of the solution.  I definitely applaud Landon Donovan and his teammates taking the stand.


My bad...I misinterpreted what you said/meant.


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## crush (Oct 1, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Crush and Woobie - I referred to your comments because they’re 100% valid and took them as a good starting point to express my opinion.  Not meant as an attack.  Yeah, I was right there with you *turning a blind eye*, shrugging it off, plenty of gay friends, and trying like heck to be part of the solution.  I definitely applaud Landon Donovan and his teammates taking the stand.


Judge Giesbock, I disagree 100% but go right ahead and judge me.  Your interesting person but arent we all.  Again, I played ball and if I was pro and trying to make the playoffs, this is not what I would want.  It's not about old school nothing dude.


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## espola (Oct 1, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> You were saying I’m condoning violence...I thought you said you support all the peaceful non-violent protests (where many are not peaceful)...I found that funny.


I can't read your mind.  I can only respond to the words you post.


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## Surfref (Oct 1, 2020)

Emma said:


> .......  I hear this type of talk in youth soccer games by parents, coaches, and players.  Referees ignore it all the time while it happens during the game.  How many times have we told our kids to just deal with it because that's the way the world is.  "That crazy soccer mom/dad/player is just jealous of your skills kid!" Maybe it doesn't need to be that way....


One of the members of the referee crew has to hear the comment.  I have never heard a racist comment as a center, but have as an AR and been frustrated by the lack of courage by the CRs to do anything.  As an AR, I had a player drop the N word on an opponent and flagged It.  The CR did nothing and told me, “he’s in high school so he has heard it before.”    I have had this happen several times.  Completely unacceptable.

The other problem I have had is the lack of support from the referee associations.  I and other refs I know have ejected players, coaches and parents for inappropriate comments toward players and using profanity, only to catch crap from our referee association board members.  A few years ago At State Cup, I removed all of the spectators from one teams sideline.  The parents were using profanity and making inappropriate comments to the 14 year old girls from the other team.  I warned them and had the coach warned them twice.  I had them removed when one dad yelled, “stop that f’ing bitch.”  I caught crap from two association board members Working the tournament.  The associations (club and HS) should be supporting the referees instead of making the issuance of a red card a bad thing.  

I had a HS coach come at me after a game dropping the f-bomb and I showed him a red card.  The next day I got two calls, one from the assigner and one a board member.  The first thing I heard was “did you really have to eject him after the game?”  Then they went on to tell me what I should have done and tell me that coach said I did not call a good game. They were not at the game and believed the f-bomb coach.  This lack of support leads referees to not want to issue cards.


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## Surfref (Oct 1, 2020)

whatithink said:


> Well said, and the fact that its still prevalent today just proves categorically that how it was "handled" in the past didn't work at all.
> 
> My son has played on and still plays on pretty diverse teams, white, Hispanic & African American. Since U9 (he's U16 now), every season has seen at least one of the Hispanic or African American kids be subject to a racial slur (a min of one incident a year, sometimes more), locally and on travel tournaments out of state. It took until game 4 this season, 1st game of the second tournament. And those are only the ones he knows about because he heard directly or was told by the player. In one instance only was a player red carded for it because the ref heard .. and the ref did that after the game was over for reasons known only to the ref.


That is a referee with no courage if he waited until after the game to issue the red.


----------



## whatithink (Oct 2, 2020)

Surfref said:


> That is a referee with no courage if he waited until after the game to issue the red.


wrt the ref & ARs, it was one of those games where we received nothing, and then they were chatting and laughing with the other coach & players after the game ... so maybe not so much a lack of courage and more a lack of character & integrity. 

On the plus side, and it's a huge plus, my son abhors racism as he's seen & heard it first hand, impacting on his buddies. 

Not a teaching moment or life lesson I ever expected from youth soccer, but maybe one of the most important things he'll ever get out of it.


----------



## Emma (Oct 2, 2020)

Surfref said:


> One of the members of the referee crew has to hear the comment.  I have never heard a racist comment as a center, but have as an AR and been frustrated by the lack of courage by the CRs to do anything.  As an AR, I had a player drop the N word on an opponent and flagged It.  The CR did nothing and told me, “he’s in high school so he has heard it before.”    I have had this happen several times.  Completely unacceptable.
> 
> The other problem I have had is the lack of support from the referee associations.  I and other refs I know have ejected players, coaches and parents for inappropriate comments toward players and using profanity, only to catch crap from our referee association board members.  A few years ago At State Cup, I removed all of the spectators from one teams sideline.  The parents were using profanity and making inappropriate comments to the 14 year old girls from the other team.  I warned them and had the coach warned them twice.  I had them removed when one dad yelled, “stop that f’ing bitch.”  I caught crap from two association board members Working the tournament.  The associations (club and HS) should be supporting the referees instead of making the issuance of a red card a bad thing.
> 
> I had a HS coach come at me after a game dropping the f-bomb and I showed him a red card.  The next day I got two calls, one from the assigner and one a board member.  The first thing I heard was “did you really have to eject him after the game?”  Then they went on to tell me what I should have done and tell me that coach said I did not call a good game. They were not at the game and believed the f-bomb coach.  This lack of support leads referees to not want to issue cards.


I'm glad you stood your ground to do the right thing.  I've always respected the refs that have admonished and then carry out the consequences.  I agree that the association should support refs and make sure they emphasize this is the normal expectation in youth sports, all sports.  Hopefully what happened at the Albion tournament earlier this year and this stance by the Loyals will make the ref association and leadership more supportive of refs admonishing and carrying out consequences for bad actors.  If the leadership doesn't, tell us who we need to write to or how to show the ref team our support for doing the right thing.

Woobie06 and Crush - I would have done the same thing but I'm glad someone else found a long term solution.  The problem with our individual quiet action is - ref associations and managing associations have not and will not create rules or enforce rules to prevent these repetitive problems and they continue to be long term problems.  

In light of the fact that this is a recurring problem, not handled properly by the coaches and referees, and is occurring during the course of the game, the SD Loyal's actions were necessary.  

One loss to force the league and ref association to make a good change towards these types of bad acts in ALL future games?  Worth it.  They've gained a fan.  Looking into season tickets next season for our entire family.  Karma.  We tell our kids, there's more to winning and losing in games but we rarely are good examples of this.  This is one we can actually point to and it's soccer related.


----------



## Eagle33 (Oct 2, 2020)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1311645624727670792


----------



## EOTL (Oct 2, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Pussies. In my time, no game would have made it to the end.


Homophobe


----------



## EOTL (Oct 2, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> I agree I was called a bunch of stuff as well as my mother, sister, etc. back in the day.  Not saying it was right.  Different world we live in today...many people are very sensitive, on edge, woke, and offended by just about anything that is said.  You gotta be careful what you say, because your opinion, belief, or perspective can get you in hot water if somebody finds it “offensive” or if it is different from theirs.


Yeah, I guess people gotta be careful about their gay slurs cuz somebody might find it “offensive.” How ridiculous that people don’t just let bigotry slide.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 2, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> I’m not denying it was said...or supporting it...or saying their choice to walk off was wrong...Personally I’d be calling out the other coach, refs, etc...the league...I’m just saying I would not have walked off and let a shitbag take something from me.  There are many ways to go about fighting against something that is wrong.  Walking off in protest is one way, not the only way.
> 
> There was something similar in the NBA recently where one player said something to another, it was racial, heard by many and it was worked out. Nobody walked off the court, people took responsibility, and moved on.
> 
> Not everything needs a be a social justice movement...some people are just assholes, need to be called on it...hopefully they learn and change...always going to be assholes in the world.  No cure for that.


Not everything needs to a place where it’s ok to engage in bigotry.

Of course, given the magnitude of this epic soccer match between two teams no one has ever heard of
in a league no one has ever heard of, maybe the stakes were just so great that they should have just excused bigotry. I mean, how will these players and their army of fans ever recover if they don’t make the playoffs. Lives are at stake for god’s sake!


----------



## Woobie06 (Oct 2, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Yeah, I guess people gotta be careful about their gay slurs cuz somebody might find it “offensive.” How ridiculous that people don’t just let bigotry slide.



Dude...get back under your rock...never said anything of the like.  As always...thanks for stirring the pot.

People say reprehensible and cruel shit all the time.  Consider the source...kind of like how I think about the things you post...I said it before, I’m not letting some asshole take something from me that I earned and walk out in protest because he/she said something.  Many ways to stand-up and address the wrongs in the world.  Walking away is one, not backing down is another.  Many different ways.

And yes...I believe people are way too sensitive about way too many things.  Especially when people are offended by a dissenting opinion as in today’s world...

Grow up...you know I’m not talking about racial, homophobic, supremicist (sp?) beliefs, etc.

Keep stirring it up...you do a great job!


----------



## crush (Oct 2, 2020)

Emma said:


> I'm glad you stood your ground to do the right thing.  I've always respected the refs that have admonished and then carry out the consequences.  I agree that the association should support refs and make sure they emphasize this is the normal expectation in youth sports, all sports.  Hopefully what happened at the Albion tournament earlier this year and this stance by the Loyals will make the ref association and leadership more supportive of refs admonishing and carrying out consequences for bad actors.  If the leadership doesn't, tell us who we need to write to or how to show the ref team our support for doing the right thing.
> 
> Woobie06 and Crush - I would have done the same thing but I'm glad someone else found a long term solution.  The problem with our individual quiet action is - ref associations and managing associations have not and will not create rules or enforce rules to prevent these repetitive problems and they continue to be long term problems.
> 
> ...


Hopefully the refs can do a better job listening for this crap when someone is losing and stop turning a blind ear.  My good friend, who is black was called all sorts of names in the 80s.  Horrible and 100% needed to be dealt with then and now if folks still say mean things on the pitch. My other friend played in the NBA and they said crap too.  Big babies always resort to name calling when their getting their asses kicked.  I'm old school, meaning I have my teammates back, regardless of religion, sexual preference that week or forever and doesn't matter skin color and economic back ground.  If you battle with me in sport, at work or at war, I have your back 100%.  I swear to God almighty!!!  All these woke white dudes have been selfish for too long and they saw that they were losing and got woke.  I just hate it when they project their sins on me just because of being a white guy.  I knew one kid that got to play all the time because daddy was rich.  I also heard that many non deserving students and athletes got into Cal with a little help from a friend.  Great October we got so far.


----------



## Emma (Oct 2, 2020)

crush said:


> Hopefully the refs can do a better job listening for this crap when someone is losing and stop turning a blind ear.  My good friend, who is black was called all sorts of names in the 80s.  Horrible and 100% needed to be dealt with then and now if folks still say mean things on the pitch. My other friend played in the NBA and they said crap too.  Big babies always resort to name calling when their getting their asses kicked.  I'm old school, meaning I have my teammates back, regardless of religion, sexual preference that week or forever and doesn't matter skin color and economic back ground.  If you battle with me in sport, at work or at war, I have your back 100%.  I swear to God almighty!!!  All these woke white dudes have been selfish for too long and they saw that they were losing and got woke.  I just hate it when they project their sins on me just because of being a white guy.  I knew one kid that got to play all the time because daddy was rich.  I also heard that many non deserving students and athletes got into Cal with a little help from a friend.  Great October we got so far.


I agree. No one should be lumping people together because of their race. 

Woobie - I blocked EOTL a long time ago.  One of my better decisions.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 2, 2020)

I am fine with a red or yellow for language, including racist taunts.  It’s in the rules; if you don’t want to get benched, don’t say it.

But there is a place for having a thick skin, too.   We seem to be forgetting how to ignore stupid shit. 

Not all referees are going to crack down on every comment.  Depending on the league, referees are somewhat used to hearing and ignoring stupid comments.  Given the comments they have to listen to, it is not surprising that some refs expect others to be able to ignore things, too.


----------



## Woobie06 (Oct 2, 2020)

dad4 said:


> But there is a place for having a thick skin, too.   We seem to be forgetting how to ignore stupid shit.


100%


----------



## mlx (Oct 2, 2020)

Yes, I applaud Landon for doing this. These imbeciles and their enablers (people like the coach saying "is part of the game"), need to go.

Now, I have to say, if I had been the referee, I wouldn't have taken that insult seriously because I really didn't know what it meant (until this thread). And I wouldn't have taken the word of the opposite coach to red card the offender...

Question for the refs: What's the right thing to do when the derogatory insults is in another language or regional slang? Should refs know ahead of the game where players are from and have a list of derogatory terms from those players' countries? Should let things go, research after the games what things mean and then sanction after the fact (include a note in the game report or whatnot)?


----------



## Emma (Oct 2, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I am fine with a red or yellow for language, including racist taunts.  It’s in the rules; if you don’t want to get benched, don’t say it.
> 
> But there is a place for having a thick skin, too.   We seem to be forgetting how to ignore stupid shit.
> 
> Not all referees are going to crack down on every comment.  Depending on the league, referees are somewhat used to hearing and ignoring stupid comments.  Given the comments they have to listen to, it is not surprising that some refs expect others to be able to ignore things, too.


Thick skin is a must and you're not going to survive in life if you can't ignore shit bc life doesn't have the ignore button like this forum - Thanks Dominic for that option. 

Refs are not going to catch everything, but when they do, they should consistently apply the rules bc that's their job and it's important to help keep the players focused on playing soccer rather  than focused on trying to be thick skinned and trying to ignore people.


----------



## Emma (Oct 2, 2020)

mlx said:


> Yes, I applaud Landon for doing this. These imbeciles and their enablers (people like the coach saying "is part of the game"), need to go.
> 
> Now, I have to say, if I had been the referee, I wouldn't have taken that insult seriously because I really didn't know what it meant (until this thread). And I wouldn't have taken the word of the opposite coach to red card the offender...
> 
> Question for the refs: What's the right thing to do when the derogatory insults is in another language or regional slang? Should refs know ahead of the game where players are from and have a list of derogatory terms from those players' countries? Should let things go, research after the games what things mean and then sanction after the fact (include a note in the game report or whatnot)?


Google Translate but in this case, it was confirmed by others as to the meaning of the words.  I'm sure I would have done the same thing this ref did. This will force the league and ref association to clarify how to handle situations like this.


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## dad4 (Oct 2, 2020)

Emma said:


> Google Translate but in this case, it was confirmed by others as to the meaning of the words.  I'm sure I would have done the same thing this ref did. This will force the league and ref association to clarify how to handle situations like this.


You really want the ref pausing the game so he can look up every bit of trash talk he can’t recognize?

We can’t even get refs to blow a whistle for straight leg slide tackling an opponents ankle.  You think they’ll pause the game so they can look up “Nai Nai?”


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Oct 2, 2020)

Will we be getting new t-shirts and arm bands?


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## Emma (Oct 2, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You really want the ref pausing the game so he can look up every bit of trash talk he can’t recognize?
> 
> We can’t even get refs to blow a whistle for straight leg slide tackling an opponents ankle.  You think they’ll pause the game so they can look up “Nai Nai?”


No, whatever they are capable of catching or have seriously been alerted to.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Oct 2, 2020)

Anyone else have any new team flag ideas?


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## Simisoccerfan (Oct 2, 2020)

You all are missing a key point.  Both teams had discussed the racial slur that happened the previous week.  All players on both teams knew the plan to stop the game around the 70th minute and come together to display a banner against hateful speach.  Knowing this the player on the other team still dropped this slur and the opposing coach still defending it as no big deal and part of the game.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Oct 2, 2020)




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## Chalklines (Oct 2, 2020)

What happened to the good old days of a solid ass kicking? 

Now we talk about our feelings and if that fails its then civil court.

If you feared being punched in the mouth these words would never come out to start with.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Oct 2, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> You all are missing a key point.  Both teams had discussed the racial slur that happened the previous week.  All players on both teams knew the plan to stop the game around the 70th minute and come together to display a banner against hateful speach.  Knowing this the player on the other team still dropped this slur and the opposing coach still defending it as no big deal and part of the game.


Agreed.  The other coach just blew it off completely and I can't support that.


----------



## happy9 (Oct 5, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Agreed.  The other coach just blew it off completely and I can't support that.


OR, maybe he didn't say it, like he and others on his team claim.  Flemings is considered a stand up guy in the PR organization.

I guess it really doesn't matter, another news cycle has set in, this story now goes to the circular inbox.


----------



## Copa9 (Oct 5, 2020)

El Clasico said:


> I am curious, does the ref need to hear a slur or can someone just whisper it to another player?  So if any team is losing on the scoreboard, they just have to whisper a slur in the opposing player's ear and the Loyals will forfeit? Hmm? Should be interesting since whispering in someone's ear is a lot easier than scoring a goal.


Seriously?


----------



## outside! (Oct 5, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> What happened to the good old days of a solid ass kicking?
> 
> Now we talk about our feelings and if that fails its then civil court.
> 
> If you feared being punched in the mouth these words would never come out to start with.


This implies that those too small or weak to reply with a punch in the mouth don't matter.


----------



## Copa9 (Oct 5, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> What happened to the good old days of a solid ass kicking?
> 
> Now we talk about our feelings and if that fails its then civil court.
> 
> If you feared being punched in the mouth these words would never come out to start with.


Obviously "the good old days" hasn't changed anything!


----------



## Copa9 (Oct 5, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> 1. As a coach/manager, I would have gotten them both involved during the game and would have attempted to make the point and get action taken. I would have exhausted the options available to me during the game to escalate and resolve. I’m sure this was done.
> 
> 2. As a player, the remainder of the game would have been very difficult for the offender.  You take care of your own.  It’s pro sports.  It happens.
> 
> ...


Your suggestions have happened in the past, yet the problem continues.


----------



## happy9 (Oct 5, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Obviously "the good old days" hasn't changed anything!


Probably not.  Or, this story didn't really happen.  LD and the Loyals received good press good for a few days,  Rising got bad press.  Both sides pointing figures at the other.  No smoking gun evidence, he said, she said kinda of stuff.  LD feels good about himself and his team doesn't advance. 

 Sounds like a 2020 event.


----------



## Copa9 (Oct 5, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I am fine with a red or yellow for language, including racist taunts.  It’s in the rules; if you don’t want to get benched, don’t say it.
> 
> But there is a place for having a thick skin, too.   We seem to be forgetting how to ignore stupid shit.
> 
> Not all referees are going to crack down on every comment.  Depending on the league, referees are somewhat used to hearing and ignoring stupid comments.  Given the comments they have to listen to, it is not surprising that some refs expect others to be able to ignore things, too.


So many people on this forum fail to see the long range, systemic problem and resort to the "when "I" was on team, or this is the way we did it, or there is nothing we can do".  With those attitudes, nothing will change.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Oct 5, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> So many people on this forum fail to see the long range, systemic problem and resort to the "when "I" was on team, or this is the way we did it, or there is nothing we can do".  With those attitudes, nothing will change.


I don't think people endorse a "failure to see" situation as much as we're all sick and tired of the alternative.  For example, last season an EPL game was stopped because some fool in the stands started making monkey gestures and noises at black players fighting for the ball in the corner.  The match was stopped, the referee was informed and the idiot was removed from the stadium.  I think we'd all endorse this.  However, I'm sick and tired of seeing rainbow flags at soccer stadiums.  Why do you need a flag to show your sexuality?  Why do we need to know what your sexual preference is?  Who gives a shit?  Frankly, part of the problem with accepting the differences is constantly having them shoved down our throats.  If you want acceptance, and you want to be treated like everyone else, drawing unwanted attention to yourself if a great place to start.  There's a balance to it and nude parades and giant, rainbow flags does nothing to warm the hearts of people targeted for "acceptance".


----------



## happy9 (Oct 5, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> So many people on this forum fail to see the long range, systemic problem and resort to the "when "I" was on team, or this is the way we did it, or there is nothing we can do".  With those attitudes, nothing will change.


I know what you are getting at and I agree with the theory and intent.  I personally don't think it's something that a society can completely eradicate, it's historically impossible.  We've gotten much better overall, with tremendous gains.  Should it be dealt with, yes.  Should we declare societal failure because of an isolated incident, nope.  If this was happening in every game of every sport at every level, then I can see the required intervention.  But's it not happening to the degree that some people liken it to. 

This does not excuse slurs.  Leagues should come down hard.  You can't regulate thoughts/ideas but you can regulate actions.  A team can decide whether to employ a player that demonstrates bad behavior and poorly represents an organization. In today's hair trigger society, employers are firing employees at a rapid rate.

In this case, it was a he said she said.  Should a player get ejected, be suspended, lose money over an accusation?  That's a hard one. Personal responsibility and having thick skin is what I tell my kids.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 5, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> So many people on this forum fail to see the long range, systemic problem and resort to the "when "I" was on team, or this is the way we did it, or there is nothing we can do".  With those attitudes, nothing will change.


Just because we have changed doesn't mean the change was good.

Most of us no longer use racial or sex based insults.  That change is good.

Some of us now expect huge penalties when someone does use a slur.  We want to cancel the event, fire the person, and blacklist them.  That change is bad.


----------



## futboldad1 (Oct 5, 2020)

my DDs have heard some bad things in their time...... not cool........ it's getting better..... tough situation LD was put in........... play on or and report or walk off and make big statement...... there is s no place for slurs but equally people have extra thin skin nowadays so it is a balance on how to keep moving forwards..........


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## youthsportsugghhh (Oct 5, 2020)

I would say that people don't necessarily have thinner skin than they used to have, but they are more willing to know they need to say/do something and not let it fester inside until something more drastic than walking off of a soccer field occurs.  Who knows how long the player who the remark was directed at had been "taking" it and had done things on the pitch to make himself feel better in the moment (a trip here, a hard tackle there, a nicely directed elbow going up for a header). Sometimes enough is enough and you try to push the entire process forward


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Oct 6, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Probably not.  Or, this story didn't really happen.  LD and the Loyals received good press good for a few days,  Rising got bad press.  Both sides pointing figures at the other.  No smoking gun evidence, he said, she said kinda of stuff.  LD feels good about himself and his team doesn't advance.
> 
> Sounds like a 2020 event.


Makes a lot of sense.  Loyals up 2-1.  They need the points to make the playoffs but instead fabricate a story, make an issue of it, and walk off the field forfeiting the game.  Yeah, that version makes alot more sense.


----------



## whatithink (Oct 6, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Makes a lot of sense.  Loyals up 2-1.  They need the points to make the playoffs but instead fabricate a story, make an issue of it, and walk off the field forfeiting the game.  Yeah, that version makes alot more sense.


Up 3-1 even ... playoffs are for wimps


----------



## Copa9 (Oct 6, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Just because we have changed doesn't mean the change was good.
> 
> Most of us no longer use racial or sex based insults.  That change is good.
> 
> Some of us now expect huge penalties when someone does use a slur.  We want to cancel the event, fire the person, and blacklist them.  That change is bad.


Things have not changed enough. Last fall, seems like a lifetime ago, I had dropped my son off for his practice at the Great Park in the OC, when he heard a player on a very well known team with a well know coach, refer to another player nearby with the "n" word.  He said these 12-13 year old boys were all laughing.  My son was disgusted.  Everyone can sit in their little bubble and say, oh it's getting better so we don't need to do anything, but the reality is that if there are serious repercussions maybe, just maybe it will change behaviors.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 6, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Things have not changed enough. Last fall, seems like a lifetime ago, I had dropped my son off for his practice at the Great Park in the OC, when he heard a player on a very well known team with a well know coach, refer to another player nearby with the "n" word.  He said these 12-13 year old boys were all laughing.  My son was disgusted.  Everyone can sit in their little bubble and say, oh it's getting better so we don't need to do anything, but the reality is that if there are serious repercussions maybe, just maybe it will change behaviors.


It depends on your bubble.  I haven’t heard that word in person since the 1980s.  I heard it from a 60 year old teacher and we were all pretty shocked, even then.

That’s why I’m not in search of serious repurcussions.  My mental image of a racist is now an old man in the nursing home.  For the people I meet day to day, behaviors changed years ago.


----------



## espola (Oct 6, 2020)

dad4 said:


> It depends on your bubble.  I haven’t heard that word in person since the 1980s.  I heard it from a 60 year old teacher and we were all pretty shocked, even then.
> 
> That’s why I’m not in search of serious repurcussions.  My mental image of a racist is now an old man in the nursing home.  For the people I meet day to day, behaviors changed years ago.


You need to get out more.


----------



## Eagle33 (Oct 6, 2020)

I have to admit, before this incident I've never heard or would know what this means (what this players allegiantly said). I must of been hanging out with a wrong crowd....


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Oct 6, 2020)

espola said:


> You need to get out more.


I agree.  Listen to a conversation between 2 black teens or grown men today... you'll hear the N-word every 5 seconds.

... but that's different.


----------



## happy9 (Oct 6, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Makes a lot of sense.  Loyals up 2-1.  They need the points to make the playoffs but instead fabricate a story, make an issue of it, and walk off the field forfeiting the game.  Yeah, that version makes alot more sense.


Just stating the facts of the incident.  He said, she said.  No one else heard the slur except for except for Collin Martin.  Flemings denies it and has no history or pattern of bad behavior.  This is 2020 and crazier things have happened.  We are still talking about it, there are investigations happening, and Los Bandidos haven't returned to their usual spot at the Rising Complex.


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## dad4 (Oct 6, 2020)

espola said:


> You need to get out more.


How often do you, in person, hear someone use a racial term as a slur? 

Maybe it is more acceptable in your crowd.  In my circle, it just isn’t done.  F-bombs on auto repeat would be more polite.

(Maybe outlaw can recommend some good music for those who like F-bombs on autorepeat.  I suggest VFW by Dead Milkmen.  )


----------



## happy9 (Oct 6, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> the reality is that if there are serious repercussions maybe, just maybe it will change behaviors.


Serious repercussions are certainly effective -  I think the issue here is how do you deliver them?  Take someone's word for it?  Lie detector test, water boarding?


----------



## espola (Oct 6, 2020)

dad4 said:


> How often do you, in person, hear someone use a racial term as a slur?
> 
> Maybe it is more acceptable in your crowd.  In my circle, it just isn’t done.  F-bombs on auto repeat would be more polite.
> 
> (Maybe outlaw can recommend some good music for those who like F-bombs on autorepeat.  I suggest VFW by Dead Milkmen.  )


You sort of reinforced my comment with "in my circle".  Maybe you should get out of your circle more and see what real life is like.


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## Jose has returned (Oct 6, 2020)

Stop being offended.  Why would you even give someone else the power to dictate how you feel? The lion doesn't care what the sheep thinks....because he is the F ing lion


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## espola (Oct 6, 2020)

Jose has returned said:


> Stop being offended.  Why would you even give someone else the power to dictate how you feel? The lion doesn't care what the sheep thinks....because he is the F ing lion


That statement has no meaning.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Oct 6, 2020)

dad4 said:


> How often do you, in person, hear someone use a racial term as a slur?
> 
> Maybe it is more acceptable in your crowd.  In my circle, it just isn’t done.  F-bombs on auto repeat would be more polite.
> 
> (Maybe outlaw can recommend some good music for those who like F-bombs on autorepeat.  I suggest VFW by Dead Milkmen.  )


I think this one pretty much paints the picture.


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## thelonggame (Oct 6, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Pussies. In my time, no game would have made it to the end.


There's a prestigious coaching school in Italy called Coverciano. Google it.  Some of the coaches who graduated include, Antonio Conte, Claudio Ranieri, Max Allegri. In other words, soccer coaching royalty. Coaches who, if we were ever so lucky, would ever get close to one of our kids. One of the things you learn there is that you can never say, "in my time." You will never graduate. If you say that, it means you do not understand what is happening in the moment, you can't adjust to the game, you are inflexible and incapable of change. You will lose. @anon. That is you. Stay as far away from the game as possible, you are a dinosaur. No one wants to hear from you, your ideas are prehistoric.


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## dad4 (Oct 6, 2020)

espola said:


> You sort of reinforced my comment with "in my circle".  Maybe you should get out of your circle more and see what real life is like.


We all have circles.  That is how real life is organized.

I take it from your non-response that your circle doesn't make frequent use of racial insults, either.  Nor do you hear them very often.  That's because most decent people dont talk like that anymore.


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## outside! (Oct 7, 2020)

dad4 said:


> We all have circles.  That is how real life is organized.
> 
> I take it from your non-response that your circle doesn't make frequent use of racial insults, either.  Nor do you hear them very often.  That's because most decent people dont talk like that anymore.


You are correct that decent people don't talk like that. Based upon my interactions with distant family and various jobs in Klantee, there are many non-decent people in the world. A few years ago I found a KKK recruiting flyer in a new box of Toastie-O's. Yes, I reported it to the police.


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## dad4 (Oct 7, 2020)

outside! said:


> You are correct that decent people don't talk like that. Based upon my interactions with distant family and various jobs in Klantee, there are many non-decent people in the world. A few years ago I found a KKK recruiting flyer in a new box of Toastie-O's. Yes, I reported it to the police.


The KKK used to recruit by having the Mayor talk to the businessmen at the local business roundtable.  Now they have to put flyers in Toastie-Os.  This is not an organization at its peak.

There are also far fewer chapters and far fewer members than there used to be.  









						The State of the KKK in the U.S. | Reports | ADL
					

Despite an ability to attract media attention, organized KKK groups are actually in decline. Learn more about the state of the KKK in the U.S. today.




					www.adl.org
				




Look at the arrest records when the alt-right holds a rally.  They tend to be from out of state.  That’s because no one state has enough alt-right loons to hold a rally.  So, when they want to hold a “unite the right” rally, they need to drive in from all over the place to avoid looking as small as they are.

I’m not saying the alt-right doesn’t exist.  But they’re small.   We don’t need to run around accusing decent people because we are afraid of a few wingnuts.  We need to be kind to each other and let the hate groups die of irrelevance.


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## Banana Hammock (Oct 7, 2020)

As a San Diego native and having a tendency to dig deeper into most glorified stories in the media, I have a slightly different view of this story.  While I agree with you that bias, racism, and homophobia are all ugly behavior, I think that there is more to this story. 

Here is how I see it from a business/marketing stand point.  First Landon Donovan has been trying to break into the San Diego soccer market for several years and has had zero success until now.  His MLS expansion failed, he gets a 2nd tier expansion team playing at a rented college stadium, and then SD Loyal lost out on the Sports Arena revamp.  Better than nothing I guess. Everyone in San Diego lived through the hype of the San Diego Loyal build up, great things were expected and promised.  LD would lead the Loyal to the promised land, San Diego would finally matter.  When things didn't work out quite like they expected with covid, racial justice movement, and no games for fans to attend I believe that the team found another way to matter beyond playing good soccer.  They would be the most woke team is the USL, everything from their jerseys to every team statement and media appearance.   So did it really matter if they made the playoffs the first year.  Apparently not,  they think that being the most woke team will finally make San Diego matter.  We will see if that's enough to keep their fans paying to see forfeits next year. Maybe they can boycott the whole season next year, and show us all how woke they really are.  It appears that they subscribe to the Trump school of media coverage, any press is good press.

They have to be financially viable in the end and forfeiting the playoffs their first year is not they way to do it.  I just wonder if there will be a second season.


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## happy9 (Oct 7, 2020)

Banana Hammock said:


> As a San Diego native and having a tendency to dig deeper into most glorified stories in the media, I have a slightly different view of this story.  While I agree with you that bias, racism, and homophobia are all ugly behavior, I think that there is more to this story.
> 
> Here is how I see it from a business/marketing stand point.  First Landon Donovan has been trying to break into the San Diego soccer market for several years and has had zero success until now.  His MLS expansion failed, he gets a 2nd tier expansion team playing at a rented college stadium, and then SD Loyal lost out on the Sports Arena revamp.  Better than nothing I guess. Everyone in San Diego lived through the hype of the San Diego Loyal build up, great things were expected and promised.  LD would lead the Loyal to the promised land, San Diego would finally matter.  When things didn't work out quite like they expected with covid, racial justice movement, and no games for fans to attend I believe that the team found another way to matter beyond playing good soccer.  They would be the most woke team is the USL, everything from their jerseys to every team statement and media appearance.   So did it really matter if they made the playoffs the first year.  Apparently not,  they think that being the most woke team will finally make San Diego matter.  We will see if that's enough to keep their fans paying to see forfeits next year. Maybe they can boycott the whole season next year, and show us all how woke they really are.  It appears that they subscribe to the Trump school of media coverage, any press is good press.
> 
> They have to be financially viable in the end and forfeiting the playoffs their first year is not they way to do it.  I just wonder if there will be a second season.


Interesting take.  Quite frankly it's a bit believable based on what's currently happening in our country and some of the outlandish ideas being floated and decisions being made by supposed intelligent people.  Dig a litter deeper and you will find that Landon Donovan has displayed questionable judgement at times.  Even as a commentator , some of his dialogue has raised eyebrows. 

If his goal was to be part of a 24/36 hr news cycle - mission accomplished


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## EOTL (Oct 7, 2020)

Banana Hammock said:


> As a San Diego native and having a tendency to dig deeper into most glorified stories in the media, I have a slightly different view of this story.  While I agree with you that bias, racism, and homophobia are all ugly behavior, I think that there is more to this story.
> 
> Here is how I see it from a business/marketing stand point.  First Landon Donovan has been trying to break into the San Diego soccer market for several years and has had zero success until now.  His MLS expansion failed, he gets a 2nd tier expansion team playing at a rented college stadium, and then SD Loyal lost out on the Sports Arena revamp.  Better than nothing I guess. Everyone in San Diego lived through the hype of the San Diego Loyal build up, great things were expected and promised.  LD would lead the Loyal to the promised land, San Diego would finally matter.  When things didn't work out quite like they expected with covid, racial justice movement, and no games for fans to attend I believe that the team found another way to matter beyond playing good soccer.  They would be the most woke team is the USL, everything from their jerseys to every team statement and media appearance.   So did it really matter if they made the playoffs the first year.  Apparently not,  they think that being the most woke team will finally make San Diego matter.  We will see if that's enough to keep their fans paying to see forfeits next year. Maybe they can boycott the whole season next year, and show us all how woke they really are.  It appears that they subscribe to the Trump school of media coverage, any press is good press.
> 
> They have to be financially viable in the end and forfeiting the playoffs their first year is not they way to do it.  I just wonder if there will be a second season.


I guess we now know that people will go to any length to deny systemic bigotry, as well as the plainly obvious actual reason this happened. Someone used a homophobic slur against the player, or maybe he misheard something he thought was a slur, so they walked off after the opposing coach and the ref failed to take action. That’s it. Trying to claim LD sabotaged their playoff spot because he wanted personal publicity and/or thought it would help them sell tix and swag is ridiculous. It only shows you know nothing about LD.


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## full90 (Oct 7, 2020)

I completely agree with the take that Landon has been less than ideal as he’s tried to climb the soccer ladder in San Diego. His soccercity involvement was terrible and alienated a lot of people. And he’s tried to make a splash for sure. 
but I can’t quite get to his motives for all this is publicity. And from all accounts the whole team was in on this. Did he convince 18 adult men to sacrifice their season so their coach gets on the news?


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## lafalafa (Oct 7, 2020)

Rising Statement on Findings of USL Investigation
					

PHOENIX, Arizona (Tuesday, October 6) – The USL Championship announced today, it has issued a six-game suspension and an undisclosed fine to Phoenix Rising FC midfielder Junior Flemmings for the use of foul and abusive language during the club’s contest against San Diego Loyal SC on September 30.




					www.phxrisingfc.com
				




PHOENIX, Arizona (Tuesday, October 6) – The USL Championship announced today, it has issued a six-game suspension and an undisclosed fine to Phoenix Rising FC midfielder Junior Flemmings for the use of foul and abusive language during the club’s contest against San Diego Loyal SC on September 30. 

The coach I dunno no mention in the article but understand he's on leave also.


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## happy9 (Oct 7, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Rising Statement on Findings of USL Investigation
> 
> 
> PHOENIX, Arizona (Tuesday, October 6) – The USL Championship announced today, it has issued a six-game suspension and an undisclosed fine to Phoenix Rising FC midfielder Junior Flemmings for the use of foul and abusive language during the club’s contest against San Diego Loyal SC on September 30.
> ...


There ya go.  I wonder if he admitted to saying it or is he still denying it and the USL decided this was in the best interest of the league.  And no mention of the coach...


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## kickingandscreaming (Oct 7, 2020)

espola said:


> That statement has no meaning.


You may not agree with it, but it absolutely has meaning. Being offended is a choice. The choice is that you have given another's words the power to offend you. It's a discussion I have had with my daughter on more than one occasion. I want her to deal with these types of situations by not giving another that power. What is said is a reflection of who they are. Unfortunately, there's a bigger issue of historical bias based on race and sexual preference. So, I believe it should be addressed when it happens. Last year my daughter heard some inappropriate racial language after a game and reported it to the opposing coach. From what my daughter and her teammates relayed, my daughter told the other coach that she wasn't offended, but others might be and she wanted him to know. To the coach's credit, he took the girls aside and talked to them. I feel like that's a good outcome - maybe the best outcome.


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## happy9 (Oct 7, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> You may not agree with it, but it absolutely has meaning. Being offended is a choice. The choice is that you have given another's words the power to offend you. It's a discussion I have had with my daughter on more than one occasion. I want her to deal with these types of situations by not giving another that power. What is said is a reflection of who they are. Unfortunately, there's a bigger issue of historical bias based on race and sexual preference. So, I believe it should be addressed when it happens. Last year my daughter heard some inappropriate racial language after a game and reported it to the opposing coach. From what my daughter and her teammates relayed, my daughter told the other coach that she wasn't offended, but others might be and she wanted him to know. To the coach's credit, he took the girls aside and talked to them. I feel like that's a good outcome - maybe the best outcome.


You make a great point and good on you for parenting.  It's so frustratingly hard to raise your kids these days to have emotional intelligence, thick skin, and to think critically - on their own.  Not everything is a societal dumpster fire - as advertised by social medial, mainstream media, and academia.


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## espola (Oct 11, 2020)

Referees have a lot to say about this here --









						San Diego Loyal - Phoenix Rising (R) USL Championship
					

Late in first half.  San Diego is winning 3-1 in a match it must win to have a chance to qualify for the playoffs.  Referee blows the whistle and...




					www.bigsoccer.com


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## EOTL (Oct 11, 2020)

happy9 said:


> You make a great point and good on you for parenting.  It's so frustratingly hard to raise your kids these days to have emotional intelligence, thick skin, and to think critically - on their own.  Not everything is a societal dumpster fire - as advertised by social medial, mainstream media, and academia.


I love how some Americans hate smart people (academia) and legitimate journalism (“mainstream media”).  No wonder QAnon exists. Teaching kids to be idiots is not teaching “emotional intelligence.”


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## happy9 (Oct 11, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I love how some Americans hate smart people (academia) and legitimate journalism (“mainstream media”).  No wonder QAnon exists. Teaching kids to be idiots is not teaching “emotional intelligence.”


You crack me up.  These 3 sentences don't even make sense.   legitimate journalism in this country ends with the High School newspaper.  Fortunately for the good ol USA, academia is a small, but vocal minority in this country, easily brushed aside and forgotten by people after 4 years + of college.   It's ok though, if you seek comfort in the myopic world of academia.  You'll snap out of it eventually.


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## EOTL (Oct 12, 2020)

happy9 said:


> You crack me up.  These 3 sentences don't even make sense.   legitimate journalism in this country ends with the High School newspaper.  Fortunately for the good ol USA, academia is a small, but vocal minority in this country, easily brushed aside and forgotten by people after 4 years + of college.   It's ok though, if you seek comfort in the myopic world of academia.  You'll snap out of it eventually.


That’s what you tell yourself because you don’t like hearing the truth every single day. You don’t like what experts and intelligent hard working journalists  say because you don’t want to believe the truth, because the implication from what they are saying is you are a f**king imbecile.

Listen to yourself. You deny what legitimate media journalists tell you. You deny what experts in their field tell you. You grew up your entire life knowing you’re an idiot and having it beaten into your thick skull every day by your teachers, the intelligent people around you, and now journalists and experts. The only thing that has changed is Fox News made you think for the first time that maybe you aren’t as stupid as you are, but they were only taking advantage of your mental feebleness to sell you s**t like my pillows from their advertisers. The Internet further caused you to think maybe you weren’t so dumb after all because it has allowed all of you dumb people to congregate, giving you the mistaken impression that if such a large number of imbeciles believe something, maybe it’s not so imbecilic after all. And maybe you’re religious, which also made it easier to just disregard science when it didn’t suit your beliefs. Gosh, God must have planted dinosaur bones to trick people, right?

But let’s get something straight. You were not intelligent growing up. You never did particularly well in school. Maybe you managed to eek out a college degree, but that’s probably about it. You’re not good at anything that requires brain power, and you’re looking up at co-workers who passed you by at work because they’re are smarter than you. You’ve got an excuse and a conspiracy theory for everything, but the truth is you are where you are in life because you’re an imbecile. Fundamentally, you know this even if you won’t admit it.


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## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

EOTL said:


> That’s what you tell yourself because you don’t like hearing the truth every single day. You don’t like what experts and intelligent hard working journalists  say because you don’t want to believe the truth, because the implication from what they are saying is you are a f**king imbecile.
> 
> Listen to yourself. You deny what legitimate media journalists tell you. You deny what experts in their field tell you. You grew up your entire life knowing you’re an idiot and having it beaten into your thick skull every day by your teachers, the intelligent people around you, and now journalists and experts. The only thing that has changed is Fox News made you think for the first time that maybe you aren’t as stupid as you are, but they were only taking advantage of your mental feebleness to sell you s**t like my pillows from their advertisers. The Internet further caused you to think maybe you weren’t so dumb after all because it has allowed all of you dumb people to congregate, giving you the mistaken impression that if such a large number of imbeciles believe something, maybe it’s not so imbecilic after all. And maybe you’re religious, which also made it easier to just disregard science when it didn’t suit your beliefs. Gosh, God must have planted dinosaur bones to trick people, right?
> 
> But let’s get something straight. You were not intelligent growing up. You never did particularly well in school. Maybe you managed to eek out a college degree, but that’s probably about it. You’re not good at anything that requires brain power, and you’re looking up at co-workers who passed you by at work because they’re are smarter than you. You’ve got an excuse and a conspiracy theory for everything, but the truth is you are where you are in life because you’re an imbecile. Fundamentally, you know this even if you won’t admit it.


Dude, great write up.  Is this you Adam Schiff? This just sounds so freakin familiar. 

You have made my day.  Spoken like a true condescending academic. I hope you feel better about yourself and that you got that off of your tiny chest.  I know that us dum peeple just kant grasp the beauty of your words. Thanks for providing me something to pin to my frigerator door, memorializing it forever.  I'll make sure to provide this to my kids as impetus to laugh at their professors as they sit in their required liberal arts classes.


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## espola (Oct 12, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Dude, great write up.  Is this you Adam Schiff? This just sounds so freakin familiar.
> 
> You have made my day.  Spoken like a true condescending academic. I hope you feel better about yourself and that you got that off of your tiny chest.  I know that us dum peeple just kant grasp the beauty of your words. Thanks for providing me something to pin to my frigerator door, memorializing it forever.  I'll make sure to provide this to my kids as impetus to laugh at their professors as they sit in their required liberal arts classes.


Carrying on a family tradition of ignorance?


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## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

espola said:


> Carrying on a family tradition of ignorance?


I suppose.


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## EOTL (Oct 12, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Dude, great write up.  Is this you Adam Schiff? This just sounds so freakin familiar.
> 
> You have made my day.  Spoken like a true condescending academic. I hope you feel better about yourself and that you got that off of your tiny chest.  I know that us dum peeple just kant grasp the beauty of your words. Thanks for providing me something to pin to my frigerator door, memorializing it forever.  I'll make sure to provide this to my kids as impetus to laugh at their professors as they sit in their required liberal arts classes.


Can anyone think of a place outside of 4Chan and anti-vaxxer forums that is so hostile to education and science than this place? It was bad enough in the old days when folks like @Simisoccerfan were mocking the science of ACL injuries and trashing his daughter’s HS, but C19 has taken this place a whole new level. We’ve got the likes of @MSK357 claiming everyone is really dying of heartburn or any other thing besides C19 although there are about 250,000 more dead through Sept than in prior years. Must be the Zantac recall that’s killing everyone right?  We’ve also got @happy9 flat out rejecting the truth of anything coming out of the mouth of an expert in the field or actual real journalist, cuz reality doesn’t line up with his “political” views. Then we’ve got @chiefs thinks this is all a big conspiracy by p**y teachers to ruin his life. 

Seriously, an American soccer parent calling someone else a p**y? That by itself should be enough to make people realize he has no clue what he’s talking about.


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## dad4 (Oct 12, 2020)

espola said:


> Carrying on a family tradition of ignorance?


Nah.  Liberal arts classes, if you take enough of them, prepare you to teach liberal arts classes.  But that's about it.

They are required because half of the liberal arts professors would be out of a job if science kids weren't forced to take them.  Kind of like the mandatory divinity classes a couple centuries back.


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## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Nah.  Liberal arts classes, if you take enough of them, prepare you to teach liberal arts classes.  But that's about it.
> 
> They are required because half of the liberal arts professors would be out of a job if science kids weren't forced to take them.  Kind of like the mandatory divinity classes a couple centuries back.


The perpetuation of the fascination by some with academia.


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## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Can anyone think of a place outside of 4Chan and anti-vaxxer forums that is so hostile to education and science than this place? It was bad enough in the old days when folks like @Simisoccerfan were mocking the science of ACL injuries and trashing his daughter’s HS, but C19 has taken this place a whole new level. We’ve got the likes of @MSK357 claiming everyone is really dying of heartburn or any other thing besides C19 although there are about 250,000 more dead through Sept than in prior years. Must be the Zantac recall that’s killing everyone right?  We’ve also got @happy9 flat out rejecting the truth of anything coming out of the mouth of an expert in the field or actual real journalist, cuz reality doesn’t line up with his “political” views. Then we’ve got @chiefs thinks this is all a big conspiracy by p**y teachers to ruin his life.
> 
> Seriously, an American soccer parent calling someone else a p**y? That by itself should be enough to make people realize he has no clue what he’s talking about.


I'm going to continue to clutch my emotional support beer and wait for you to come down from your self appointed exalted pedestal. It's ok and your constitutionally given right to emit what you emit.  At a minimum, your output provides a very humorous view of the lens which you view the world through.


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## EOTL (Oct 12, 2020)

happy9 said:


> I'm going to continue to clutch my emotional support beer and wait for you to come down from your self appointed exalted pedestal. It's ok and your constitutionally given right to emit what you emit.  At a minimum, your output provides a very humorous view of the lens which you view the world through.


The “exalted pedestal” (and “ivory tower”) cliches are just code used by the anti-science and education crowd to try to bridge the legitimacy gap between them and those who a actually know what they’re talking about. Maybe using these terms still works as a dog whistle for your dumber than s**t like minded compadres, but most people have figured things out.


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## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

EOTL said:


> The “exalted pedestal” (and “ivory tower”) cliches are just code used by the anti-science and education crowd to try to bridge the legitimacy gap between them and those who a actually know what they’re talking about. Maybe using these terms still works as a dog whistle for your dumber than s**t like minded compadres, but most people have figured things out.


You must watch a lot of Brett Terhune.  Funny that exalted pedestal in your mind is cliche (who uses that by the way?) and yet you use the term dog whistle - Page 3, paragraph 4A of your playbook.

I don't look down on your views.  Quite humorous actually and provides a break from the real world.  I'll clutch my coors light, continue to clean my duble burel muskit and wait for your excerpt from page 4.


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## outside! (Oct 12, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Nah.  Liberal arts classes, if you take enough of them, prepare you to teach liberal arts classes.  But that's about it.
> 
> They are required because half of the liberal arts professors would be out of a job if science kids weren't forced to take them.  Kind of like the mandatory divinity classes a couple centuries back.


Which liberal arts classes are you referring to? I took a lot of STEM classes, as well as the required liberal arts classes required for my major. I was glad I received a somewhat more well rounded education. STEM classes for the most part prepare you to solve STEM problems. There is a bigger world out there. English composition did actually help me to write better. Speech helped me to be better at public speaking. The state government class I took helped me to be even more sure politics was not for me. Macro-economics was interesting. Does Frisbee count as a liberal-arts class? I am rather proud of the "A" next to "Frisbee" on my transcript.


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