# Build out line-  best part of the new changes



## timbuck (Apr 1, 2017)

Ive got an 07 daughter.  And an 05. 
After watching the 07 teams play with and without the build out line, I think this is the best thing that has been done for youth soccer in a long time. (Small sided games at older ages -  I don't see this as a plus or a minus.  Will help some kids. Might hurt others.  Age group changes-  sucked for a year, but seems that everyone has adjusted just fine). 
This is forcing teams to play out of the back. To get their head up and look for options.   The time they have to make decisions with the ball are going to help them as they get older.  Havjng the big, strong kid pound goal kicks past midfield goes away.  Your defensive players actually have to play soccer in the back. 
And teams parking 3 kids at the top of the 18 to jump on a flubbed goal kick doesn't happen any more.  Those players need to organize, press and mark now. 
And the keeper punt (while great if you have a kid that can boot it) is gone.  No more 50/50 ball from 20 feet in the air. 

I'll be curious to see what happens in 10 years with these players.  That will be the real determining factor of whether this is considered a success.


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## Daniel Miller (Apr 1, 2017)

Totally disagree.  The "no-punt" rule means that no team ever has to defend against a long ball.  Very few players at the youngest ages - especially girls - can throw the ball more than about 15 yards in the air.  So coaches just push their players up to the restriction line, have them track the keeper left and right, and then swarm the first player to get the ball.  I would say that most goals I've seen under the new rule come as a result of a team's inability to get the ball out of the back when swarmed.

When keepers could punt, it forced the opposition to hold players in the back and midfield.  Teams who worked on building out had a fair chance of doing it because opponents were more equally distributed over the entire field.  

Who has benefits from the restriction line?  Coaches who have fast, aggressive player who will swarm. 

Who is punished?  Coaches who have always trained kids to build-out, because their inability to punt means that they can no longer keep the opposition honest.


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## zebrafish (Apr 1, 2017)

I like the rule also.

Teams with a goalie who could punt well could immediately get rid of pressure by kicking the ball 30-40 yards down field. 

I think what you'll see some teams begin to do is the short pass and then the fullback will just boom it. But this still beats a 30-40 yard punt by the goalie in my book.

Also, I wish that tournaments would adopt the rule. At least make things consistent.


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## Grace T. (Apr 1, 2017)

zebrafish said:


> I like the rule also.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For the future, the kids will need to learn how to punt and it's a skill that takes time since ideally most of them will be rotating through goal in the early years for the experience.  While maybe not a critical skill for all players, it is a useful one to have.  The fullback doesn't need to learn to just boom it...more kickball is the last thing that the U8 sport needs.  If you are right and this is what happens, the rule change has created lousy incentives.


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## NoGoal (Apr 1, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> Totally disagree.  The "no-punt" rule means that no team ever has to defend against a long ball.  Very few players at the youngest ages - especially girls - can throw the ball more than about 15 yards in the air.  So coaches just push their players up to the restriction line, have them track the keeper left and right, and then swarm the first player to get the ball.  I would say that most goals I've seen under the new rule come as a result of a team's inability to get the ball out of the back when swarmed.
> 
> When keepers could punt, it forced the opposition to hold players in the back and midfield.  Teams who worked on building out had a fair chance of doing it because opponents were more equally distributed over the entire field.
> 
> ...


I told my DD about the new ulittle build up line.  She told me, that's dumb....the defenders won't know how to deal with high pressuring teams when that build up line is removed.

She has a point, it's easy to hold the ball without pressure and another story with forwards and mid-fielders pressing.


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## BarcaLover (Apr 2, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> I told my DD about the new ulittle build up line.  She told me, that's dumb....the defenders won't know how to deal with high pressuring teams when that build up line is removed.
> 
> She has a point, it's easy to hold the ball without pressure and another story with forwards and mid-fielders pressing.


Trust me, the defenders are not holding the ball without pressure because of the build out line.  The opposing team is coming after them as soon as they touch the ball.  What it does give the defenders is a MOMENT to receive the ball and then try to find an open teammate.....to build out of the back. 

That is the whole point of the build out line......trying to get players to become comfortable playing out of the back.  Are the rules for it perfect?  No.  Will they continue to adjust things to make it better?  Probably.

But the build out line is, IMO, a great step in the right direction for helping our younger players become comfortable playing out of the back.


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## espola (Apr 2, 2017)

BarcaLover said:


> Trust me, the defenders are not holding the ball without pressure because of the build out line.  The opposing team is coming after them as soon as they touch the ball.  What it does give the defenders is a MOMENT to receive the ball and then try to find an open teammate.....to build out of the back.
> 
> That is the whole point of the build out line......trying to get players to become comfortable playing out of the back.  Are the rules for it perfect?  No.  Will they continue to adjust things to make it better?  Probably.
> 
> But the build out line is, IMO, a great step in the right direction for helping our younger players become comfortable playing out of the back.


Ballet practice.


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## NoGoal (Apr 2, 2017)

BarcaLover said:


> Trust me, the defenders are not holding the ball without pressure because of the build out line.  The opposing team is coming after them as soon as they touch the ball.  What it does give the defenders is a MOMENT to receive the ball and then try to find an open teammate.....to build out of the back.
> 
> That is the whole point of the build out line......trying to get players to become comfortable playing out of the back.  Are the rules for it perfect?  No.  Will they continue to adjust things to make it better?  Probably.
> 
> But the build out line is, IMO, a great step in the right direction for helping our younger players become comfortable playing out of the back.


And can't the team with the ball pass back to a defender positioning themselves deep in the build out line and the pressing stops?


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## BarcaLover (Apr 2, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> And can't the team with the ball pass back to a defender positioning themselves deep in the build out line and the pressing stops?


In SCDSL this past season the rule was once the GKer rolled the ball or passed the ball out to a defender, as soon as the defender touched the ball the opposing team was free to enter inside the build out line and press.

I don't know how other gaming circuits are implementing the build out line.


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## NoGoal (Apr 2, 2017)

BarcaLover said:


> In SCDSL this past season the rule was once the GKer rolled the ball or passed the ball out to a defender, as soon as the defender touched the ball the opposing team was free to enter inside the build out line and press.
> 
> I don't know how other gaming circuits are implementing the build out line.


How is that any different without a build out line, besides no punting?


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## BarcaLover (Apr 2, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> How is that any different without a build out line, besides no punting?


Well, if a team wants to try and build out of the back when the GKer has the ball and the opposing team is sitting on both CBs(inside the build out line) it makes it a suicide mission to do so.  

The build out line provides a little time and space for a defender to receive a ball and then try and build their attack.  The point of the build out line is development.....helping players to become comfortable playing out of the back.


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## Kicker4Life (Apr 2, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> And can't the team with the ball pass back to a defender positioning themselves deep in the build out line and the pressing stops?


No....as soon as the player on the offensive team receives that ball the defending team can enter the zone.


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## Grace T. (Apr 2, 2017)

Isn't the solution to go with a build up line but allow punting? This gives the team with possession the option of getting rid of it to relieve pressure, forces the other team to cover the back (rather than having all the players at a line of scrimmage ready to pounce on the poor defender), teaches the keepers how to punt and gives the defenders a second to think about the build up.  Otherwise you are just transferring the problems of the gk to the defender who if being rushed by 3 others might just opt or be told to boot it particularly if they have a big leg and/or a not very development oriented coach.


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## wildcat66 (Apr 2, 2017)

I guess I look at the whole concept from a non traditionalist point of view.  If the long ball works sometimes why not utilize it as a strategy.  I know the "beautiful game" purist crowd hate that attitude.  I understand that being able to maintain possession and build from the back is a good strategy, but so is having fast forwards and defenders with booming kicks.  If we followed traditional attitudes, football would not have instituted the forward pass, basketball the 3 point shot, etc.  Nobody says you cant build out of the back without the instituted line, many teams do it anyway.  For me it is just "forced development opportunity" rather than reality.  Maybe we could not allow strikers to shoot inside the 18...wouldn't that increase their longer shot accuracy or not allow a break away more than 10 yards to increase passing skills....


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## rainbow_unicorn (Apr 2, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Isn't the solution to go with a build up line but allow punting?


No, that would just encourage teams to punt as the easy way out.  Build out line is great...especially for Ulittles development.  Any respectable coach would agree with the fundamentals behind it.  This is a step in the right direction to get away from ugly American kickball to closing the gap with more sophisticated soccer countries.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Apr 2, 2017)

wildcat66 said:


> If the long ball works sometimes why not utilize it as a strategy.


The buildout line does not take away the opportunity for long balls.  In fact, it will probably make long balls more effective as building out from the back/switching fields will draw the opposing team in and then long balls can be used to find space for the forwards to run into.


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## wildcat66 (Apr 2, 2017)

I have watched the boom ball vs possession debate over the years as a soccer dad and feel like if it is so detrimental to development of players why isn't it banned or rules put in place to make it not possible.  For me it comes down to an attitude of tradition and culture over effectiveness.  It is like telling a basket ball team, "Yeah you won, but you don't do free throws well"  or a football team, "you guys score a lot but you should run the ball more."  My observation has been that big, strong, aggressive and fast are not what "real" soccer players should be.  They should be quick, agile, skillful etc.  As an outside observer prefer to watch the big, strong, fast paced, more contact type of soccer than the calm, patient, flowing ballet that the traditionalist play.


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## espola (Apr 2, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Isn't the solution to go with a build up line but allow punting? This gives the team with possession the option of getting rid of it to relieve pressure, forces the other team to cover the back (rather than having all the players at a line of scrimmage ready to pounce on the poor defender), teaches the keepers how to punt and gives the defenders a second to think about the build up.  Otherwise you are just transferring the problems of the gk to the defender who if being rushed by 3 others might just opt or be told to boot it particularly if they have a big leg and/or a not very development oriented coach.


A "solution" would be to make it optional, either by team, by game, or by league.


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## espola (Apr 2, 2017)

wildcat66 said:


> I have watched the boom ball vs possession debate over the years as a soccer dad and feel like if it is so detrimental to development of players why isn't it banned or rules put in place to make it not possible.  For me it comes down to an attitude of tradition and culture over effectiveness.  It is like telling a basket ball team, "Yeah you won, but you don't do free throws well"  or a football team, "you guys score a lot but you should run the ball more."  My observation has been that big, strong, aggressive and fast are not what "real" soccer players should be.  They should be quick, agile, skillful etc.  As an outside observer prefer to watch the big, strong, fast paced, more contact type of soccer than the calm, patient, flowing ballet that the traditionalist play.


People say "boom ball vs possession" as if that is all there is.


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## Grace T. (Apr 2, 2017)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> No, that would just encourage teams to punt as the easy way out.  Build out line is great...especially for Ulittles development.  Any respectable coach would agree with the fundamentals behind it.  This is a step in the right direction to get away from ugly American kickball to closing the gap with more sophisticated soccer countries.


Punting is at best a 50 50 proposition for most goalies that age. That's v the easier  throw to the defender behind the build up line. Think you'd see both particurly of the team is required to rotate keepers.


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## Primetime (Apr 2, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> Totally disagree.  The "no-punt" rule means that no team ever has to defend against a long ball.  Very few players at the youngest ages - especially girls - can throw the ball more than about 15 yards in the air.  So coaches just push their players up to the restriction line, have them track the keeper left and right, and then swarm the first player to get the ball.  I would say that most goals I've seen under the new rule come as a result of a team's inability to get the ball out of the back when swarmed.
> 
> When keepers could punt, it forced the opposition to hold players in the back and midfield.  Teams who worked on building out had a fair chance of doing it because opponents were more equally distributed over the entire field.
> 
> ...


The part your missing is its not about winning or losing games at 9 years old.   Because teams are forced to play out of the back it makes kids learn that option as part of their development.  If they were allowed to just continue punting that would forever be their only and or main option.  You can already see the difference when after league was over and they were allowed to punt again.   Keepers give a few punts to start, gets everyone honest and spread out then can start to mix it up with playing out of the backfield.  Which at the end of the day is the better option at any level.  Thats the real intent of the rule.  Not for the games today but for the games tomorrow.  Sorry, It's not even a close argument.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Apr 2, 2017)

wildcat66 said:


> if it is so detrimental to development of players why isn't it banned or rules put in place to make it not possible


Isn't that what this discussion is about...the US Soccer mandated build out line rules?



wildcat66 said:


> It is like telling a basket ball team, "Yeah you won, but you don't do free throws well"


Probably more accurate analogy is telling a basketball team "Yeah you lost, and it's because you guys were feeding the ball to your big man on every play".  Defending against a team that plays long balls to a good/big/fast forward is relatively easy.  Defending against a team that plays possession well is a nightmare.


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## espola (Apr 2, 2017)

Primetime said:


> The part your missing is its not about winning or losing games at 9 years old.   Because teams are forced to play out of the back it makes kids learn that option as part of their development.  If they were allowed to just continue punting that would forever be their only and or main option.  You can already see the difference when after league was over and they were allowed to punt again.   Keepers give a few punts to start, gets everyone honest and spread out then can start to mix it up with playing out of the backfield.  Which at the end of the day is the better option at any level.  Thats the real intent of the rule.  Not for the games today but for the games tomorrow.  Sorry, It's not even a close argument.


Nonsense.  Just need better coaching, not ballet practice.


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## Halfskenator (Apr 3, 2017)

Below is the link to an interesting article on this topic. 

https://www.socceramerica.com/article/70548/developing-smarter-players-what-we-should-and-sho.html?print


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## wildcat66 (Apr 3, 2017)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Isn't that what this discussion is about...the US Soccer mandated build out line rules?
> 
> 
> Probably more accurate analogy is telling a basketball team "Yeah you lost, and it's because you guys were feeding the ball to your big man on every play".  Defending against a team that plays long balls to a good/big/fast forward is relatively easy.  Defending against a team that plays possession well is a nightmare.


If it did not work or people were losing every time they did it nobody would do it. It is simply a style of play that does work many times.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Apr 3, 2017)

wildcat66 said:


> If it did not work or people were losing every time they did it nobody would do it. It is simply a style of play that does work many times.


Teams that only play long ball do it because that is the only way they know how to play.  

Possession soccer does not mean you never play a long ball.  There are situations where a long ball is a good decision.  But teams should work to possess the ball and find good opportunities to make the through pass/cross/long ball.  A team that is always booting the ball down the field is a sign of bad coaching.


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## Daniel Miller (Apr 3, 2017)

Primetime said:


> You can already see the difference when after league was over and they were allowed to punt again.   Keepers give a few punts to start, gets everyone honest and spread out then can start to mix it up with playing out of the backfield.


I agree that giving some punts and some build-outs is the best way to play.  But the restriction line is inimical to that best way of playing, because your team is never allowed to punt.  Good coaches should train their players to build out of the back, but they should not be denied the ability to use punting as an alternative.

The real problem here is that you believe in a rule which limits opportunities.


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## wildcat66 (Apr 3, 2017)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Teams that only play long ball do it because that is the only way they know how to play.
> 
> Possession soccer does not mean you never play a long ball.  There are situations where a long ball is a good decision.  But teams should work to possess the ball and find good opportunities to make the through pass/cross/long ball.  A team that is always booting the ball down the field is a sign of bad coaching.


I agree that it shouldn't be used all the time, but I also think that it shouldn't be discouraged either.  When one of my daughters played keeper she had a big leg.  She was able to put the ball in the other half easily and the sweeper that the team had was also a big kicker.  The coach would utilize that to get some effective attacks early in the game, get ahead many times and then play the possession game to prevent the other team from scoring and catching up.  Additionally toward the end of a game that long clear made the other team who wanted to build from the back work and ate up the clock.....


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## Kicker4Life (Apr 3, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> I agree that giving some punts and some build-outs is the best way to play.  But the restriction line is inimical to that best way of playing, because your team is never allowed to punt.  Good coaches should train their players to build out of the back, but they should not be denied the ability to use punting as an alternative.
> 
> The real problem here is that you believe in a rule which limits opportunities.


How has your DD's team adjusted to the rule?  Our first year under this Rule was successful is helping reinforce what the coach was already training them to do, huild out of the back. When switching to State Cup where this rule was not in place, we utilized punts very rarely.  

The only opportunity they would miss out on is to boot one over the top in the case a team was pressing hard.  If your about winning than yes, it limits your opportunities.  otherwise it's more developmentally focused. I hated it at first, but came around as the season progressed.


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## Primetime (Apr 3, 2017)

Everyone says good coaching handles the buildout line on its own.   Apparently you have a lot more faith in the coaching that's out there than I do.   I live in reality where I watch coach after coach care about winning at age 10 and use the word devolopmemt like it's going outta style.  Then again maybe it is going outta style....


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## bruinblue14 (Apr 3, 2017)

Primetime said:


> Everyone says good coaching handles the buildout line on its own.   Apparently you have a lot more faith in the coaching that's out there than I do.   I live in reality where I watch coach after coach care about winning at age 10 and use the word devolopmemt like it's going outta style.  Then again maybe it is going outta style....


Agree re: good coaching. My dd's coach from u10-u12 didn't allow defenders to punt. Like ever. The rationale was to force the defenders to learn to handle the ball in and around the 18 calmly while under pressure and also to force them to look for other options other than punting or kicking it out. Coach figured they could learn to punt later on and prioritized teaching them to make accurate passes under pressure because there's just not enough time to teach everything. Drove parents nuts and gave up a ton of goals.

But..... my kid is now cool as a cucumber defending in the box and doesn't panic. Few coaches are willing to sacrifice winning to teach that kind of thing. Not saying his approach was the best, but it worked well in my kid's case.


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## Grace T. (Apr 3, 2017)

bruinblue14 said:


> Agree re: good coaching. My dd's coach from u10-u12 didn't allow defenders to punt. Like ever. The rationale was to force the defenders to learn to handle the ball in and around the 18 calmly while under pressure and also to force them to look for other options other than punting or kicking it out. Coach figured they could learn to punt later on and prioritized teaching them to make accurate passes under pressure because there's just not enough time to teach everything. Drove parents nuts and gave up a ton of goals.
> 
> But..... my kid is now cool as a cucumber defending in the box and doesn't panic. Few coaches are willing to sacrifice winning to teach that kind of thing. Not saying his approach was the best, but it worked well in my kid's case.


I just note that as a defender your DD (unless she also plays GK) be rarely called to punt later in her career.  GK, by contrast, will be.  And it's takes them a while to pick up the technique.  Most U7s will flub the punt at least 50% of the time.  By U8 they can usually get it on the foot but it's just as likely to go to ground or up straight since kids have a problem angling the foot correctly.  To do it correctly, many will have to drop kick it (on our U8 Extras team, only DS and his fellow keeper could do it without a drop...I'd be open to allowing the punt but forbidding the drop kick at U8).  By U10 most kids that are comfortable in goal will be able to boot it without dropping it but few with precision.  Having a DS that's a goalkeeper, it can be nerve racking because a flubbed punt during the game in front of all those people is easy to get you laughed at.  Kids in this age group are still developing aim, power, or control over the punt so it doesn't bounce uncontrollably when it hits the ground.  Like any skill, punting is one that takes time to develop.


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## bruinblue14 (Apr 3, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> I just note that as a defender your DD (unless she also plays GK) be rarely called to punt later in her career.  GK, by contrast, will be.  And it's takes them a while to pick up the technique.  Most U7s will flub the punt at least 50% of the time.  By U8 they can usually get it on the foot but it's just as likely to go to ground or up straight since kids have a problem angling the foot correctly.  To do it correctly, many will have to drop kick it (on our U8 Extras team, only DS and his fellow keeper could do it without a drop...I'd be open to allowing the punt but forbidding the drop kick at U8).  By U10 most kids that are comfortable in goal will be able to boot it without dropping it but few with precision.  Having a DS that's a goalkeeper, it can be nerve racking because a flubbed punt during the game in front of all those people is easy to get you laughed at.  Kids in this age group are still developing aim, power, or control over the punt so it doesn't bounce uncontrollably when it hits the ground.  Like any skill, punting is one that takes time to develop.


Agree. For keepers, punting is essential. I think I've seen far too few young keepers though being taught to play the ball on the ground and/or roll it out, let alone learn to have defenders play the ball back to them to relieve pressure. Those that try to make the transition later on to learning to pass accurately as olders seem to struggle. Just what I've observed. Really they should be learning both..... passing & punting.


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## Grace T. (Apr 3, 2017)

bruinblue14 said:


> Agree. For keepers, punting is essential. I think I've seen far too few young keepers though being taught to play the ball on the ground and/or roll it out, let alone learn to have defenders play the ball back to them to relieve pressure. Those that try to make the transition later on to learning to pass accurately as olders seem to struggle. Just what I've observed. Really they should be learning both..... passing & punting.


Agree, but finding that balance is also a skill that GKs between U10-12 should be learning (and won't if they are too busy at U10 learning just how to do the punt accurately).  On our team, for example, the coach is very focused with building out the back.  DS sometimes though goes with a roll or throw too often...he's scared he'll flub the punt even though he's getting pretty accurate and powerful with it and just needs confidence.  Keeper 2 goes to the punt way too often and with far too big of a leg...he's probably worried if the defender flubs the possession he'll be back under attack.   They should be choosing to do it based on the game situation and whether the pressure is on the back third...instead they are doing what is easiest for them.  One other possible compromise is to do what WVSL does, IIRC...forbid the punt in spring, but allow it in fall.


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