# US Men's National Team - what went wrong?



## Hired Gun (Oct 10, 2017)

Sad day in US Soccer.  Many fingers have been pointed to why.
1. Coaching in general - from US National to youth soccer
2. Youth Soccer Structure
3. Best US athletes playing other sports
4. Winning over Development
5. MLS weak compared to other world leagues
6. Youth Soccer is played by the wealthy, top youth players can't afford club enviroment
7. US Soccer structure is a mess
8. Soccer is not top 4 sport in US.
9. Top US Soccer players need to travel oversees to get strong completion and get paid
10. Most US citizens lack passion for the sport
And the list goes on and on...


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## sdklutz (Oct 11, 2017)

How long has their been a DA system in place for the boys? What are the dividends of that system? Sure hope they don't mess up the WNT with their garbage DA program.


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## Eagle33 (Oct 11, 2017)

Hired Gun said:


> Sad day in US Soccer.  Many fingers have been pointed to why.
> 1. Coaching in general - from US National to youth soccer
> 2. Youth Soccer Structure
> 3. Best US athletes playing other sports
> ...


It's easy to point fingers but sometimes teams loose, sometimes the other team was just better that day.
Netherlands have all those things that you pointed out we don't have and their National team also didn't qualify. Chile didn't qualify. Italy still not and have to go through tough playoffs.  
Soccer is cruel sport, where better teams not always win.
Our youth soccer and soccer is general is got a lot better than 30 years ago, and trust me 30 years is very short period of time. 
We are moving in a right direction and this World Cup setback will makes US soccer stronger.
On the other note, don't we hate Russia and anything to do with Russia anyway?


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## espola (Oct 11, 2017)

Eagle33 said:


> It's easy to point fingers but sometimes teams loose, sometimes the other team was just better that day.
> Netherlands have all those things that you pointed out we don't have and their National team also didn't qualify. Chile didn't qualify. Italy still not and have to go through tough playoffs.
> Soccer is cruel sport, where better teams not always win.
> Our youth soccer and soccer is general is got a lot better than 30 years ago, and trust me 30 years is very short period of time.
> ...


In order for USA to be bumped yesterday, all teams in the top half of the Hexagonal standings had to lose to teams in the bottom half.  That's pretty rare.


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## timbuck (Oct 11, 2017)

Hired Gun said:


> Sad day in US Soccer.  Many fingers have been pointed to why.
> 1. Coaching in general - from US National to youth soccer
> 2. Youth Soccer Structure
> 3. Best US athletes playing other sports
> ...


All of the above are true. But at the end of the day, the 11 players on the field need to have some heart.  That was a gutless showing.


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## Grace T. (Oct 11, 2017)

Eagle33 said:


> It's easy to point fingers but sometimes teams loose, sometimes the other team was just better that day.
> Netherlands have all those things that you pointed out we don't have and their National team also didn't qualify. Chile didn't qualify. Italy still not and have to go through tough playoffs.
> Soccer is cruel sport, where better teams not always win.
> Our youth soccer and soccer is general is got a lot better than 30 years ago, and trust me 30 years is very short period of time.
> ...


I think there's a lot of truth to this.  The Trinidad team also had nothing to lose and didn't have to worry about accumulating yellows so they were free to just play aggressively.

That said, even if they had won or lost, the US still underperformed given the competition.  I'd add: a) we still view soccer primarily as an athletic only sport instead of also an intellectual and skills based one...the rest of the world doesn't have better athletes than we do but being an athlete isn't all that matters....which is why we have so much run and smash soccer in the US, b) we don't put enough of an emphasis on creating defenders...of the athletes soccer gets everyone wants to be the rock star, and few of the greats want to be the work horse...we still view soccer as a game of making the score rather than avoiding mistakes and then we are horrified when a mistake like the first goal last night happens, and c) our system, despite DA (or maybe even because of it) is still college oriented...and lot's of kids (particularly those that can afford the pay-to-play system) and their parents would rather their players take the safe path in college (burning 4 years of what could be professional development) than a risky and short career at a low salary for the MLS or a European league.


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## SBFDad (Oct 11, 2017)

Super crappy day for sure, but guardedly optimistic this will be a catalyst for real change.

Should start with a gutting of the leadership. Bring in voices that believe in a fundamental shift in coaching and youth development, youth ID, and how our domestic leagues should be structured (pro/rel). Push to change the rules on compensation for clubs that produce top players. And it’s time to invest those millions of $$$ sitting in the USSF coffers. It can be done, but will it?

In other federations, the expectation would’ve been that Gulati and Arena resign within hours of that result. But guessing we will debate it all in the weeks and months to come and they will still be there through it all, at least for now. That’s how our federation rolls...too slow, too passive, too non-commital. Nothing too drastic for fear of destabilizing the system, which is exactly what it needs.

Burn it all down. Sweep up the ashes. Rebuild it better, stronger, and smarter.


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## forsomuch (Oct 11, 2017)

19 of the 25 guys on the roster last night were born 1990 or before. They came up way before the current structure is in place. This team was not created by the "Development Academies".  *The first year that I would say would be developed by our current structure would be the 1996/1997 of which there is only one player from that age bracket and that would be Pulisic*.  I don't believe you can throw out the DA structure as the reason for the failure as it was not in place for the vast majority of the players on last night's roster.

Bigger concern for me is that only 5 of the 25 players on the roster are playing in Europe's top leagues! 2 play in Mexico and 18 play in the MLS. There needs to be a bigger push to get the top 17-20 year players into Europe and playing consistently at a higher level at younger ages. 

And if you are a male and playing soccer in hopes of a college scholarship there should be no national team for you! 

All players on last night's roster older than 22 should be banned from the National Team and it is time for the next generation to step up.


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## timbuck (Oct 11, 2017)

"19 of the 25 guys on the roster last night were born 1990 or before. They came up way before the current structure is in place. This team was not created by the "Development Academies". *The first year that I would say would be developed by our current structure would be the 1996/1997 of which there is only one player from that age bracket and that would be Pulisic*. I don't believe you can throw out the DA structure as the reason for the failure as it was not in place for the vast majority of the players on last night's roster."

Yeah-  these are the players that haven't been able to qualify for the last 2 Olympics. 
What a mess.


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## espola (Oct 11, 2017)

timbuck said:


> "19 of the 25 guys on the roster last night were born 1990 or before. They came up way before the current structure is in place. This team was not created by the "Development Academies". *The first year that I would say would be developed by our current structure would be the 1996/1997 of which there is only one player from that age bracket and that would be Pulisic*. I don't believe you can throw out the DA structure as the reason for the failure as it was not in place for the vast majority of the players on last night's roster."
> 
> Yeah-  these are the players that haven't been able to qualify for the last 2 Olympics.
> What a mess.


And Pulisic was not "developed" by the Academy.

When they started the PDA program 10 years ago, they should have started with 10-year-olds.  If it had worked as they intended, we would now have a bumper crop of hundreds of world-class 20-year-olds.


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## forsomuch (Oct 11, 2017)

timbuck said:


> "19 of the 25 guys on the roster last night were born 1990 or before. They came up way before the current structure is in place. This team was not created by the "Development Academies". *The first year that I would say would be developed by our current structure would be the 1996/1997 of which there is only one player from that age bracket and that would be Pulisic*. I don't believe you can throw out the DA structure as the reason for the failure as it was not in place for the vast majority of the players on last night's roster."
> 
> Yeah-  these are the players that haven't been able to qualify for the last 2 Olympics.
> What a mess.


I think those guys have aged out of this as well, the 96/97 were not the core of that group. They were 2 or 3 years behind them.


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 11, 2017)

SBFDad said:


> Super crappy day for sure, but guardedly optimistic this will be a catalyst for real change.
> 
> Should start with a gutting of the leadership. Bring in voices that believe in a fundamental shift in coaching and youth development, youth ID, and how our domestic leagues should be structured (pro/rel). Push to change the rules on compensation for clubs that produce top players. And it’s time to invest those millions of $$$ sitting in the USSF coffers. It can be done, but will it?
> 
> ...



I agree.  Pulisic and Wood shouldn't have to deal with such mediocrity.  WTF was Omar Gonzalez doing in the lineup.  The refs missed his horrible foul in the box that should have been a PK.  I feel like crying but I am too pissed off.

https://deadspin.com/fuck-all-of-this-1819346770


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## mahrez (Oct 11, 2017)

Lack of Promotion/Reg; MLS players not good enough and there is no way to climb the later for lower division teams

Soccer Culture; lack of

Soccer Education; lack of. not nearly enough educated coaches, scouts, or referees either.

Scouting system reform; Highly Political, we keep bringing back retreaded players, coach gets to pick whoever they want. Scouts don’t identify new players and stick with only mainstream teams and don’t even look at many teams & players.

Resource allocation; US soccer has hundreds of millions of dollars they don’t invest in soccer training, infrastructure, or anything else but wall street bankers.

Youth Pay to Play system

Open Competition; close circuits don't help any one

Economics; we spend way too much $ traveling and on tournaments instead of getting better with additional training in the name of searching out better competition, bs.

Facilities; we don’t have enough available outside the suburbs


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## SoccerFrenzy (Oct 11, 2017)

They under performed indeed! Watch the Twellmans interview on ESPN, he is spot on. I watched Argentina play and they surely hustled on the field, something the US didn't do. Maybe US came in confident?


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## galaxydad (Oct 11, 2017)

My Fixes for MENS US soccer from the youth up

*Youth soccer*-
Pay to play need to be made extremely affordable. There are way too many good players not playing due to socio economics. Only a handful of clubs are doing it right- Galaxy, LAUFA, FCGS, Slammers ECNL boys as money doesn't matter. Best players make the team regardless of if they can afford it or not. 
- Why- because we severely limit the talent pool under the current economic model. My buddy is coaching HS and lots of his players do not play club because of money and play only on Saturdays or Sundays  

ODP/ ECNL/ DA/ NPL- Its about money not finding the best players and nourishing them- Force the re unification of all the leagues. Have scouts at all top level games. Try to take the politics out of the selection of the top prospects
_ Id even argue the current flight of teams like Strikers, Pats etc to all these new league is about money. They cannot compete with the talent of these smaller clubs so they needs something to market parents in order to charge more.

Coaching education and expectations needs to be aligned- 
-Why-Too many poor coaches working with quality players and zero development. At my sons club some of the best coaches are not working with the best teams. The coaches that recruit the best players are coaching the best teams but are poor at development

Coaching education needs to be made affordable, be offered at better times of the year, more times and needs to be expected of all Club soccer coaches. Check out the cost of licensing up

More days of quality training or more days of free play but more. 
- Why- Our kids don't play enough, period. Doesn't have to be organized play. Just play. 

*College Soccer- *
Needs to play a 10 month calendar- The current system doesnt match the rest of the world and the players again dont play enough

Needs to play with international substitution rules- The player recruited is not the best soccer player but the physical beast. I hear it from JC coaches all the time that their best players are often never considered as their style fits the world game but not the college game. 

Needs to change the amount of hours they can train- Again- more touches

*MLS-* 
Stop being a retirement league- I love seeing some of the worlds best in their twilight years but that comes at the cost of our home grown talent 

play the schedule the rest of the world does. Our players are so out of synch when it comes to qualifying matched

Academy system- All need to offer educational opportunities 

Send our best to Europe for a while-  Our players need better competition period


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 11, 2017)

SoccerFrenzy said:


> They under performed indeed! Watch the Twellmans interview on ESPN, he is spot on. I watched Argentina play and they surely hustled on the field, something the US didn't do. Maybe US came in confident?


All you had to do was hear Coby Jones' voice and watch the reaction and the lack of words by the analysts to know that the sky truly fell yesterday....


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## galaxydad (Oct 11, 2017)

mahrez said:


> Lack of Promotion/Reg; MLS players not good enough and there is no way to climb the later for lower division teams
> 
> Soccer Culture; lack of
> 
> ...


We have the best competition in our own backyard. Travelling makes little sense minus the experiences


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## coachrefparent (Oct 11, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> c) our system, despite DA (or maybe even because of it) is still college oriented...and lot's of kids (particularly those that can afford the pay-to-play system) and their parents would rather their players take the safe path in college (burning 4 years of what could be professional development) than a risky and short career at a low salary for the MLS or a European league.


Yes. Parents aren't  even remotely close to telling their kids to skip college for the (next to zero) chance of getting a World Cup (which only a miniscule part of the US population sees as having any value), or make pocket change playing soccer in this country. 

This all important  game was barely on TV. The rest of the world sees the World Cup (and highest level soccer) as the holy grail, life's greatest achievement. They don't buy nintendos and iphones and ipads for their babies, they get them a soccer ball. They riot and burn and kill based on the results of soccer matches (we only do this for basketball).

We're just not there yet people, and may never be. And that might be good.


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## charlie murphy (Oct 11, 2017)

this group did not make Olympic qualifying.  sure things need to change , but maybe it is just this group.


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## Ghostwriter (Oct 11, 2017)

My take away from US Soccer. It starts from the top down and the hiring of Bruce Arena was a disaster. It was a retread hire and his style is as old as the 90s.  What is at the core of the problem is what we look for in a future player.  I have seen first hand how the selection process goes it is political, it is flawed, and at it's core we look for athletes not soccer players.  We have the mentality that big, fast, athletic overrides everything else, with soccer IQ, touch, processing the game, and ability to play on that stage not even part of the selection process.  By the time the players get to the senior level the ones that have the soccer IQs, touch, etc have been weeded out for the most part and what is left isn't world class soccer players, it's the American ideal. We have no soccer identity, we get a player that has decent touch like Bradley and we think he is the next big thing but in the process from ages 15-23 we had hundreds of players better than Bradley's touch but they didn't pass the athleticism test so they were never given a shot. There is no easy fix and the whole model has to be changed but we don't have the soccer imagination, nor the know how to make that change. My guess is we will hire somebody like Alexi Lalas and double down on the American way.   This mentality is rampant throughout the girls and boys club team's "give me an athlete and I will mold them into a soccer player" mentality.  It is backwards and it is costly on the world stage. The men have been a disaster on the world stage with the exception of some isolated moments and the women have had a huge head start for a couple of decades and now the world has closed that gap as they invest in the women's game.  Until coaches at all levels put soccer IQ, ability to read the game with and without the ball, and touch ahead of big, fast, and athletic we will repeat this nightmare over and over again.


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## socalkdg (Oct 11, 2017)

Hired Gun said:


> Sad day in US Soccer.  Many fingers have been pointed to why.
> 6. Youth Soccer is played by the wealthy, top youth players can't afford club enviroment
> ..


Have to disagree with this one.   Here in SoCal more minorities play the game of soccer than many other sports.  

Maybe the problem is there isn't enough players from SoCal.  Men's and Women's teams should only be made up players from SoCal.   Pretty sure we would win.


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## timbuck (Oct 11, 2017)

socalkdg said:


> Have to disagree with this one.   Here in SoCal more minorities play the game of soccer than many other sports.
> 
> Maybe the problem is there isn't enough players from SoCal.  Men's and Women's teams should only be made up players from SoCal.   Pretty sure we would win.


We could probably find 23 guys between the ages of 19 and 30 around So Cal that would give the team that played last night a run for their money.


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## watfly (Oct 11, 2017)

Last night is on the players.  They looked intimidated by the field and like they were playing not to get hurt.

Stepping away and looking at the overall picture,  the problem with US soccer is US Soccer.  US Soccer is structurally flawed and only really works around the fringes of improving US soccer, ie buildout lines and small-sided games to name a couple.  We have now not qualified for both the Olympics and the World Cup.  This is right in the wheelhouse of the players that should have come through DA (20-23 year olds), but as others pointed the team that played last night had few players in this age range ( and please spare me the argument that Pulisic was developed by the DA).

The DA is a fine league but it abject failure at producing world class players which is its stated goal.  It hasn't produced these players because it can't.  I'm sorry but 8 hours of training a week combined with the fact the US Soccer is not financially invested in the DA (ie pay-to-play) is not a recipe for producing world class players.  The proof is in the pudding.

Our failure to develop players is a mult-faceted problem and is in part cultural.  However, I want to expand on something the Grace T mentions and that is the mental part of the game.  This  is more optics than substance but what kind of message did the US players send with pictures of them having to be carried across the flooded track in Trinidad on the backs of the trainers?  I understand why it was done but it sends a message of the US players being prima donnas.  I see this at the youth level as well.  Many coaches are enamored with physical specimens and kids that are fancy dribblers.  Yet some of these same kids don't have mental toughness or an IQ for the game.  We have all seen that great youth player that gets dinged up a bit or their team get behind in a game and that player disappears.  I don't know if that a function of the fact that soccer in the US is more "country club" than a "blue collar" sport like it is in other countries.  Nevertheless, the mental game is a huge part of soccer that I think we neglect.


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## Sons of Pitches (Oct 11, 2017)

It is the pay to play and lack of promotion relegation that leads to mediocrity.  You don't have to excel when you have a monopoly.  MLS = Monopoly,  DA = Monopoly.  Why was the SCDSL formed?so the big clubs could protect themselves and have a monopoly, they can lose every game and still be Tier 1.


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## SocalPapa (Oct 11, 2017)

Hired Gun said:


> Sad day in US Soccer.  Many fingers have been pointed to why.
> 5. MLS weak compared to other world leagues


Trinidad and Tobago's two goals last night were scored by players from the TT Pro League (a local Trinidad league) and the Saudi Professional League (playing for Al-Faisaly FC, the 116th ranked club in Asia).  Our keeper, by contrast, spent most of his career in the English Premier League, including a stint at Manchester United.  Overall, the Trinidad roster features 7 players from MLS and 11 from the TT Pro League.

The US also didn't even have a major men's professional soccer league when the USMNT qualified for the 1990 World Cup (NASL folded in 1984 and MLS didn't start until 1993).


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## Grace T. (Oct 11, 2017)

watfly said:


> The DA is a fine league but it abject failure at producing world class players which is its stated goal.  It hasn't produced these players because it can't.  I'm sorry but 8 hours of training a week combined with the fact the US Soccer is not financially invested in the DA (ie pay-to-play) is not a recipe for producing world class players.  The proof is in the pudding..


100% right.  The DA is made to create college athletes, who then miss 4 years of professional development.  The European Academy system doesn't work that way.  If we want to establish an academy system geared at producing potential pros, instead of college players, you would have to limit the amount of DAs around to recruit only the best of the best, have them associated with pro teams only, and they could cherry pick out of the existing club system, and pay for their development...there's probably also a way to build alliances between the MLS teams and European leagues so players could get training abroad.  It also means limiting the number of MLS teams instead of continuing the expansion and putting relegation/ascension in place, as well as lifting the limits on the amounts the MLS teams have to spend so we start paying our defenders real money and get people interested in playing the position.  But that would upend lots of people's cozy economic models so I'm not optimistic of that happening.


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## watfly (Oct 11, 2017)

socalkdg said:


> Have to disagree with this one.   Here in SoCal more minorities play the game of soccer than many other sports.
> 
> Maybe the problem is there isn't enough players from SoCal.  Men's and Women's teams should only be made up players from SoCal.   Pretty sure we would win.


FYI the US U-17 team currently playing in the U-17 World Cup has a sum total of zero players from SoCal.


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 11, 2017)

Ghostwriter said:


> My take away from US Soccer. It starts from the top down and the hiring of Bruce Arena was a disaster. It was a retread hire and his style is as old as the 90s.  What is at the core of the problem is what we look for in a future player.  I have seen first hand how the selection process goes it is political, it is flawed, and at it's core we look for athletes not soccer players.  We have the mentality that big, fast, athletic overrides everything else, with soccer IQ, touch, processing the game, and ability to play on that stage not even part of the selection process.  By the time the players get to the senior level the ones that have the soccer IQs, touch, etc have been weeded out for the most part and what is left isn't world class soccer players, it's the American ideal. We have no soccer identity, we get a player that has decent touch like Bradley and we think he is the next big thing but in the process from ages 15-23 we had hundreds of players better than Bradley's touch but they didn't pass the athleticism test so they were never given a shot. There is no easy fix and the whole model has to be changed but we don't have the soccer imagination, nor the know how to make that change. My guess is we will hire somebody like Alexi Lalas and double down on the American way.   This mentality is rampant throughout the girls and boys club team's "give me an athlete and I will mold them into a soccer player" mentality.  It is backwards and it is costly on the world stage. The men have been a disaster on the world stage with the exception of some isolated moments and the women have had a huge head start for a couple of decades and now the world has closed that gap as they invest in the women's game.  Until coaches at all levels put soccer IQ, ability to read the game with and without the ball, and touch ahead of big, fast, and athletic we will repeat this nightmare over and over again.


I agree with most of this.  I will tell you that I am hard pressed to believe that the greatest soccer players aren't world class athletes too.  Put Cristiano Ronaldo in the US and I bet he would have been an outstanding football player.  The problem isn't the athletes it is the system (administrators, coaching and scouting).  

I am still too angry to cry but damn that was unexpected.....


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 11, 2017)

Eagle33 said:


> It's easy to point fingers but sometimes teams loose, sometimes the other team was just better that day.
> Netherlands have all those things that you pointed out we don't have and their National team also didn't qualify. Chile didn't qualify. Italy still not and have to go through tough playoffs.
> Soccer is cruel sport, where better teams not always win.
> Our youth soccer and soccer is general is got a lot better than 30 years ago, and trust me 30 years is very short period of time.
> ...


Trump is going to be pissed.


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 11, 2017)

timbuck said:


> "19 of the 25 guys on the roster last night were born 1990 or before. They came up way before the current structure is in place. This team was not created by the "Development Academies". *The first year that I would say would be developed by our current structure would be the 1996/1997 of which there is only one player from that age bracket and that would be Pulisic*. I don't believe you can throw out the DA structure as the reason for the failure as it was not in place for the vast majority of the players on last night's roster."
> 
> Yeah-  these are the players that haven't been able to qualify for the last 2 Olympics.
> What a mess.


We need to quit hiring foreign coaches.


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 11, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> We need to quit hiring foreign coaches.


Umm Bruce Arena is from Brooklyn...


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## Ghostwriter (Oct 11, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I agree with most of this.  I will tell you that I am hard pressed to believe that the greatest soccer players aren't world class athletes too.  Put Cristiano Ronaldo in the US and I bet he would have been an outstanding football player.  The problem isn't the athletes it is the system (administrators, coaching and scouting).
> 
> I am still too angry to cry but damn that was unexpected.....


You can have great athletes with high soccer IQ's but we don't calculate that in our selection process in the US we look for great athletes and believe we can mold them into great soccer players.  Your example was a great soccer mind who happens to be a great athlete.  Plus comparing soccer players to other sports athletes is a mistake, no one cares in Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, etc, if their football players can compete in the NFL or NBA all they care about is can they compete on the world stage. Until we get to that point we are looking at it in a way that is the root of the problem.  No matter how fast one is, no matter how physical one is, no matter how big one is, it doesn't matter if that one can't read the game fast.  The fastest player on the field is the one that can process the info the fastest and no one is faster than the ball. Until we change the core of our recruiting process from the youth levels to the senior level we will be in the same cycle of disappointnent.


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## SoccerFrenzy (Oct 11, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Trump is going to be pissed.


He is going to call it "Fake News"


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 11, 2017)

SoccerFrenzy said:


> He is going to call it "Fake News"


I am sure he would have liked to see his friend, Vlad.


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## RedHawk (Oct 11, 2017)

Would it be too much to ask that the President of the US Soccer Federation not have a parallel career as a lecturer!!


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 11, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Umm Bruce Arena is from Brooklyn...


Sorry, how about you MAP? You know more about soccer than anyone I know.
I will start a campaign for you, maybe RF and Driver can be your assistants?


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## galaxydad (Oct 11, 2017)

socalkdg said:


> Have to disagree with this one.   Here in SoCal more minorities play the game of soccer than many other sports.
> 
> Maybe the problem is there isn't enough players from SoCal.  Men's and Women's teams should only be made up players from SoCal.   Pretty sure we would win.


There are many very talented players not playing due to the cost of club. Go to Santa Ana on a Saturday or Sunday and you'll find tons of talent to help your team out.


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## younothat (Oct 11, 2017)

watfly said:


> FYI the US U-17 team currently playing in the U-17 World Cup has a sum total of zero players from SoCal.


UL from the Galaxy is a YNT U17 alternative and the Mexico Youth Teams have some of our Socal US based players in there system.  We have the players but they  either can't afford to play, are not id'd, given a chance, or simply play elsewhere eventually because the competition & training is not good enough for them to continue developing.

But yes the scouting/selection process needs a major overhaul as does the coaching.

Case in Point;  EF the 15 yr old plays for Mexico YNT and made his pro debut as the youngest player in the USL last Wednesday
www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-alvarez-20170802-story.html

The old/young guys mixed didn't work this go, there is a  startling gap in the 23-27 age range.

The competition we have at the youth level is way too closed off, fragmented and there is really no real soccer pyramid , a money $ grabbing free, with the illusion of structure.

We need to start from the bottom up not the top down, this is the biggest failure of US soccer IMO.  Too much focus on the wealthier & funded clubs like those in the MLS  and complete disregard for anything else.  Not that many clubs can afford DA that is 2x or more costly than club for example.  Should be the other way around....pay to play is not working for pyramid moves, its all the same.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 11, 2017)

What has not been mentioned (I think as I read through this thread) is a unified curriculum from the youth level to the national team. One where all participants need to adhere to and be held accountable for. Twellman speaks of it in his rant last night about Germany. France did it as well. Will US Soccer do this???


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## galaxydad (Oct 11, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> What has not been mentioned (I think as I read through this thread) is a unified curriculum from the youth level to the national team. One where all participants need to adhere to and be held accountable for. Twellman speaks of it in his rant last night about Germany. France did it as well. Will US Soccer do this???


Agreed about curriculum BUT not system of play. Mandating the 4-3-3 was the dumbest thing the DA has done. Build as soccer IQ please.


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## Simisoccerfan (Oct 11, 2017)

Money is and always will be the motivation.   Until we find the formula to that uses money to reward the development of world class players we will continue to fail.


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## Grace T. (Oct 11, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> What has not been mentioned (I think as I read through this thread) is a unified curriculum from the youth level to the national team. One where all participants need to adhere to and be held accountable for. Twellman speaks of it in his rant last night about Germany. France did it as well. Will US Soccer do this???


We are far away from a unified curriculum at the youth level.  Right now, the "let them play" advocates have the upper hand....guided self-learning with minimal coaching of skills or soccer IQ.  Players are expected to do that on their own outside of the context of team training, especially in the early years.  Which means, in the early years, either having a really good club training academy day (and that's usually just 1 evening), getting a private trainer (which knocks out most working class kids) or having parents that play.  It also means, in the early years, a competitive soccer program where training in possession and soccer IQ may be sacrificed for run and shoot soccer because it works and we've told the parents winning is everything.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 11, 2017)

galaxydad said:


> Agreed about curriculum BUT not system of play. Mandating the 4-3-3 was the dumbest thing the DA has done. Build as soccer IQ please.


Of course let coaches/programs decide on the system they implement on the field. But create a curriculum that fosters creativity, vision, IQ, skill, an understanding of positions, and team play. Replace building a team around a player, individual play, and so much more.


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## galaxydad (Oct 11, 2017)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Money is and always will be the motivation.   Until we find the formula to that uses money to reward the development of world class players we will continue to fail.


Well said- The fact that professional teams outside of the US can swoop in and land our players for next to nothing is a broken system. Mexico's pro teams laugh at us that we do not have our players contracted to development fees etc.

The first thing at the pay to play level is the creation of the development fee contract so that the ability to pay for elite training takes the back burner to actual development. If there is transfer money at the end of the tunnel youth teams will work harder to actually teach instead of winning U10 championships at the cost of development.


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## SoccerFrenzy (Oct 11, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Of course let coaches/programs decide on the system they implement on the field. But create a curriculum that fosters creativity, vision, IQ, skill, an understanding of positions, and team play. Replace building a team around a player, individual play, and so much more.


Is it true that DA now has soccer IQ classes?


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 11, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Sorry, how about you MAP? You know more about soccer than anyone I know.
> I will start a campaign for you, maybe RF and Driver can be your assistants?


I'm on the Eric Wynalda train....  Make American Soccer Great


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 11, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> We are far away from a unified curriculum at the youth level.  Right now, the "let them play" advocates have the upper hand....guided self-learning with minimal coaching of skills or soccer IQ.  Players are expected to do that on their own outside of the context of team training, especially in the early years.  Which means, in the early years, either having a really good club training academy day (and that's usually just 1 evening), getting a private trainer (which knocks out most working class kids) or having parents that play.  It also means, in the early years, a competitive soccer program where training in possession and soccer IQ may be sacrificed for run and shoot soccer because it works and we've told the parents winning is everything.


Everything all have said here on this thread rings true, but no matter what happens a curriculum is needed to guide all programs without it nothing will change.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 11, 2017)

SoccerFrenzy said:


> Is it true that DA now has soccer IQ classes?


Ha! Don't know my kids are not old enough to be in DA.


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## Grace T. (Oct 11, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Of course let coaches/programs decide on the system they implement on the field. But create a curriculum that fosters creativity, vision, IQ, skill, an understanding of positions, and team play. Replace building a team around a player, individual play, and so much more.


But you can't do that as long as you have a system, especially in the early years, where winning is so important.  I wrote about my dear niece's 2007 team, for example, where the parents are up in arms because the coaches are rotating the position instead of placing their strong striker up top and the other kids in 1 position so they can win.  Teams build around a player and individual play because they can win that way.  If they win, the coaches keep their jobs.  If they win, the club can brag about producing winning teams, and create B, C, and D teams that bring more revenue.  I'm a parent that thinks competition is good for kids and that the days of everyone takes a trophy were bad.  But I also see that the emphasis we've placed on winning at the lower youth levels is detrimental to our producing soccer IQ at the upper levels.


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## timbuck (Oct 11, 2017)

A few ramblings:
1.  US Soccer really pooped the bed on this one.  With the current issues surrounding the NFL (Flags, concussions and loss of viewers), NCAA basketball (who knows what will wind up happening here.  If the NBA starts a true developmental league for 18-22 year olds, NCAA basketball will see a real decline in talent and viewers) and Baseball (I didn't even realize that the playoffs have started.  I haven't paid attention to baseball in years)... US Soccer had a chance to grab a fanbase and grow with some casual fans.  These fans might not know a ton about soccer, but they love to watch the Red, White and Blue play.  They would buy $90 replica jerseys.  They'd watch games glued to Fox Television.  They might even start to understand the offside rule.
The only money that is really going into TV advertising these days is for live (sports) TV.  Nobody watches commercials any longer.

2. The US Sports media is also losing out.  All of these former NFL and NBA guys that do sports radio are making jokes this morning about soccer while talking about how devastating a loss last night was.  What these knuckleheads don't realize, is that the decline in viewership for NFL, NCAA and MLB will have an impact on their industry too.  Soccer could have pumped some more money into their side of the business.

3. The US had been known for years for producing world class goal keepers.  Howard, Guzan, Keller, Meola, Friedel, Rimando (maybe).  Was Howard the last great american GK?  

4. How do we not have a center mid?  That is the position that every parent wants their 10 year old playing.  "Joey plays defense, but he really belongs as a center mid" can be heard 1,000's of times a weekend across the US.

5. The players on the field last night.  Many of them had great moments over the last 15 years.  Last night cemented the legacy for many of them as "crappy players".   (Bradley, Howard, Besler, Jozy and Omar should be excused from any further US National Team calls ups).   We shouldn't need to have 3 players with more than 110 caps.  That means there is nobody coming up behind them.

6. Sucks that John Brooks was hurt. When is he set to return?  Seems he's been out for a long time.  Him at 80% might have been better than Besler or Gonzalez.

7. Zardes has a horrible touch, but works his butt off.  Too bad he got hurt last week. 

8.  Dom Dwyer had a very nice Gold Cup.  His work rate was off the charts.  Why didn't he get a look at a call up for this cycle?

9. Has our Development Academy approach made us soft?  Are we trying so hard to develop great touch and creativity that we have forgotten about grit and heart?  A lot of chatter about "Development over winning".  I believe that this is a good concept.  But we also need to "Develop a winning mentality."  When Pulisic is fouled every time he touches the ball and there is no retaliation, that's BS.

10. About developing a good touch and soccer IQ -  I get that this should start at an early age.  But how can a player not continue to improve here later in life?  I play adult soccer.  I'm a hack at best.  But at 43 years old, my touch improves the more that I play.  
Let's put it in terms of other sports:
Michael Jordan - Did NOT have an outside shot his first few years in the league.  Guess what? He worked his a$$ off to improve that part of his game.
Draymond Green -  Not big enough.  Not fast enough.  Played all 4 years in college.  Was a 2nd round pick.  Didn't play much his first 2 years in the league.  Didn't become a starter until his 3rd year.  Didn't make an all-star team until his 5th year.  He worked his butt off and is now considered the most versatile player in the NBA.  
Tom Brady - 6th round pick.  Only started because Drew Bledsoe got hurt.  He was the 4th string QB his first season.

11.  Tactics, lineup, strategy -  Whatever.  You can blame Arena for some of that.  But players need to make plays.  You need to win the ball in 1v1s.  You need to make that off the ball run.  You need to anticipate what's going to happen next.  Coaches shouldn't need to remind National Team players of this.  Playing with 3 days of rest should not be an excuse at this level.  I don't care if you had to fly to Trinidad and practice on a wet field.

12. MLS -  Not a great league for American players to get to a world class level.  But MLS has elevated the game for the Central American nations.  I'm no expert in Central America soccer leagues, but I have to imagine that playing and living in the United States is preferred to playing and living in Panama, Honduras or Trinidad.  Even at $75k a year in the MLS, it's got to be better than playing part time in a 3rd world country where you might need to work in a field farming bananas during the off-season.  
Some argue that promotion / relegation is needed in the US.  I'm not sold on this idea.  But we do need to do more to further the play of American players.  Teams spend millions on aging Euro stars to have a 2-3 year retirement tour across the United States.  And a guy on that same team will make $60k as a domestic hanger-on.  That $60k a year guy could make more money as a youth club coach.
The US fan base is increasing.  Look at the sellout crowds when Euro teams play exhibition games in the US.  We are selling out the Big House in Michigan, the Coliseum in LA and just about any other big American Football stadium in the country.  There is passion there if we put out a good product.

13.  Youth Development.  The "best" youth coaches are guys with British accents.  If they are such great coaches, then why are they in the US?  Why don't they stay in the UK and coach at the youth academy level in Europe?  We are getting glorified British gym teachers over here.  Why don't we have more Brazilian coaches working with our kids?  Why don't we have more Argentinian coaches? French coaches? German coaches?  There are quite a few Eastern European guys coaching around South OC.  I'm not talking about guys like them.  
What are we doing to improve coaching education?  Our licensing system is expensive.  Our license system is "pass a test".  It doesn't teach anything.  It's just a knowledge check.  Why don't we have on-going (free) seminars for coaches to learn and network?
*Free play*- Instead of hosting 10 tournaments every weekend in the summer, there should be options for free play.  Forget a tournament.  Announce that the 3rd Saturday of each month, there will be a free for all at Oceanside, Great Park and Norco.  Show up by 9 am.  You'll get placed on a team with kids your same age but a variety of skill levels.   There will be 11 kids on each team.  Game will play for 20 minutes.  You'll play 2 games with the team you were assigned.  Then you'll get assigned to a new group and play 2 more games.  Then you'll do the same thing on Sunday.  This will cost $20 per player.  A colored training bib will be provided for each team that you get assigned too.  Referees will be there to keep players safe and fouls will be called VERY tight.  No standings or stats will be kept.
*Pay-to-Play-* I don't see us adopting "solidarity payments" anytime soon.  Coaches need to get paid.  Referees need to get paid.  Administrators need to get paid.  Facilities need to be rented.  We have to find a way to keep our costs lower for all level of players.  Do we really need $300 worth of uniforms, $700 EZ-Ups and extensive travel costs to get kids playing at a high level?  
We need to find sponsors that will allow kids to play for "almost free."  Fox Sports 1 is a sponsor of AYSO.  Since this sponsorship, I have not seen AYSO fees go down.  Where is this money going?  
I see some clubs with logos on their jerseys.  Where does this money go?  I think those players are still paying $2,000+ to play for that club.  
*College *-We have formed leagues and tournaments to make it easier for college scouts to find players.  Kids travel to Vegas, Nor Cal and Texas in hopes of catching the eye of a D1 scout.  There has to be a better way.  Put the responsibility back on the college coaches to find players.  Let the Power 5 Conferences create their own tournaments (free of charge) for teams to play in.  Invite any coach that wants to attend, but make them pay to attend.  This will cover the tournament costs.  Let the players stay in dorms (For free).  Find a title sponsor to provide a "training table" for food.  If parents want to watch, they can pay for their own room and board.  

That's all for now.  Maybe I'll submit this along with my application to take over Sunil's post when he is hung out to dry.


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## Grace T. (Oct 11, 2017)

timbuck said:


> 3. The US had been known for years for producing world class goal keepers.  Howard, Guzan, Keller, Meola, Friedel, Rimando (maybe).  Was Howard the last great american GK?


I'll answer the goalkeeping part of your post.    First of all, last night wasn't Howard's fault.  Howard is beginning to show signs of his age, and this was probably his last hurrah, but there wasn't much he could do with either of those goals.  US goalkeeping has always developed on the assumption that since we have so many kids that play sports that catch (football, baseball, basketball), it's easy to convert one of those players into a goalkeeper.  And US goalkeepers have been very well known for being keepers that catch, as opposed to players that punch all the time like in Europe.  The problem with that first the change in the backpass rule, and then the rise of Neuer have changed all that.  Goalkeeping has changed radically in the last 5 years, as has what they are expected to do.  You see it in the LA Galaxy keepers....Diop is the classic European keeper that is most comfortable sitting on his line....either someone has told him to play out of the box or he's decided to imitate Neuer but he's not physically or by training suited to that style (at least not yet) and it's led time and time to disaster.  Rowe is the classic American keeper blocking with his legs and trying to catch it, but he can't really support the attack the way a sweeper-keeper can.  In the 90s, the kids that were recruited to play the role were big lugs who were often slow but could battle on the cross, English style.  In the 00's, they were giants, particularly in Europe, that were taught to not leave but to sit on their lines.  Everything has changed now, and speed and agility are the most vital aspect of a keeper....the training even in the US is changing along with it (my son recently switched form a 40 year old goalkeeper coach that taught him to bend his knee on the ground ball and he's switched to a younger one that wants him to forward dive on it, for example).  The US has to decide whether it's going to keep producing American-style goalkeepers like Rowe, or whether its going to switch to a sweeper-keeper format.  So, they'll be a break before we get some worldclass goalkeepers again, and one of the changes US soccer needs to do is improving the education of American goalkeepers (or something we did well in the past will become something we were passed by as the rest of the world evolves).


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## pulguita (Oct 11, 2017)

Great post Timbuck.  Let me give you a story for you all.  Our B2008 Blue team for the last 2 years has been getting its ass handed to them 6,8,10-zip.  This year we have been beating all those teams by 4,5,6 zip.  These kids have been drilled the Barca possession way for the past 3 seasons by an American coach that grew up here in SoCal, that didn't grow up playing possession but saw the writing on the wall 10 years ago that that was the wave of the future. 2 years ago ( he happens to be our DOC and we got a slew of coaches teaching the same thing) he got the parents (the whole f'ing key) to buy in and realize that we are going to get our asses handed to us for a few years but you just wait cause right now just doesn't matter as long as we get the foundation right.  Now we have to shut the jets off typically at half and knock the ball around in the second half.  Last week we were playing a team from the inland empire and this exact scenario played out.  The other coach was actually doing a fantastic job trying to get his team to play he just wasn't there yet.  After the game he asked our coach how the hell did you get those kids to play like that.  He told them the story.  He also told that coach he was doing a great job.  As folks were walking out to the parking lot a parent from the other team started berating that coach because  they lost and that he was a horrible coach.  One of our parents overheard the conversation went over to that other coach and said "Coach you could coach our kids anytime cause you're trying to do it right".   I think this sums up the situation in the US pretty damn good.


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 11, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> I'll answer the goalkeeping part of your post.    First of all, last night wasn't Howard's fault.  Howard is beginning to show signs of his age, and this was probably his last hurrah, but there wasn't much he could do with either of those goals.  US goalkeeping has always developed on the assumption that since we have so many kids that play sports that catch (football, baseball, basketball), it's easy to convert one of those players into a goalkeeper.  And US goalkeepers have been very well known for being keepers that catch, as opposed to players that punch all the time like in Europe.  The problem with that first the change in the backpass rule, and then the rise of Neuer have changed all that.  Goalkeeping has changed radically in the last 5 years, as has what they are expected to do.  You see it in the LA Galaxy keepers....Diop is the classic European keeper that is most comfortable sitting on his line....either someone has told him to play out of the box or he's decided to imitate Neuer but he's not physically or by training suited to that style (at least not yet) and it's led time and time to disaster.  Rowe is the classic American keeper blocking with his legs and trying to catch it, but he can't really support the attack the way a sweeper-keeper can.  In the 90s, the kids that were recruited to play the role were big lugs who were often slow but could battle on the cross, English style.  In the 00's, they were giants, particularly in Europe, that were taught to not leave but to sit on their lines.  Everything has changed now, and speed and agility are the most vital aspect of a keeper....the training even in the US is changing along with it (my son recently switched form a 40 year old goalkeeper coach that taught him to bend his knee on the ground ball and he's switched to a younger one that wants him to forward dive on it, for example).  The US has to decide whether it's going to keep producing American-style goalkeepers like Rowe, or whether its going to switch to a sweeper-keeper format.  So, they'll be a break before we get some worldclass goalkeepers again, and one of the changes US soccer needs to do is improving the education of American goalkeepers (or something we did well in the past will become something we were passed by as the rest of the world evolves).


Kevin Silva is going to be our next great keeper.  I will be surprised if he returns for his junior year at UCLA.


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## Toch (Oct 11, 2017)

Bruce Arena should have never been called back. From day 1 it has seemed like this was the result he was shooting for... his goal was to not qualify. We need to clean house, we have the talent!


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 11, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I'm on the Eric Wynalda train....  Make American Soccer Great


Good enough for me.


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## JoeBieber (Oct 11, 2017)

pulguita said:


> Great post Timbuck.  Let me give you a story for you all.  Our B2008 Blue team for the last 2 years has been getting its ass handed to them 6,8,10-zip.  This year we have been beating all those teams by 4,5,6 zip.  These kids have been drilled the Barca possession way for the past 3 seasons by an American coach that grew up here in SoCal, that didn't grow up playing possession but saw the writing on the wall 10 years ago that that was the wave of the future. 2 years ago ( he happens to be our DOC and we got a slew of coaches teaching the same thing) he got the parents (the whole f'ing key) to buy in and realize that we are going to get our asses handed to us for a few years but you just wait cause right now just doesn't matter as long as we get the foundation right.  Now we have to shut the jets off typically at half and knock the ball around in the second half.  Last week we were playing a team from the inland empire and this exact scenario played out.  The other coach was actually doing a fantastic job trying to get his team to play he just wasn't there yet.  After the game he asked our coach how the hell did you get those kids to play like that.  He told them the story.  He also told that coach he was doing a great job.  As folks were walking out to the parking lot a parent from the other team started berating that coach because  they lost and that he was a horrible coach.  One of our parents overheard the conversation went over to that other coach and said "Coach you could coach our kids anytime cause you're trying to do it right".   I think this sums up the situation in the US pretty damn good.


I'm sure this happened.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 11, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I agree.  Pulisic and Wood shouldn't have to deal with such mediocrity.  WTF was Omar Gonzalez doing in the lineup.  The refs missed his horrible foul in the box that should have been a PK.  I feel like crying but I am too pissed off.
> 
> https://deadspin.com/fuck-all-of-this-1819346770


I was so glad LAG traded OG and Z-German dropped him because he was to slow. BA had other options that would have been better like Matt Miazga. Like the article, blunt.


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## JoeBieber (Oct 11, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> I'll answer the goalkeeping part of your post.    First of all, last night wasn't Howard's fault.  Howard is beginning to show signs of his age, and this was probably his last hurrah, but there wasn't much he could do with either of those goals.  US goalkeeping has always developed on the assumption that since we have so many kids that play sports that catch (football, baseball, basketball), it's easy to convert one of those players into a goalkeeper.  And US goalkeepers have been very well known for being keepers that catch, as opposed to players that punch all the time like in Europe.  The problem with that first the change in the backpass rule, and then the rise of Neuer have changed all that.  Goalkeeping has changed radically in the last 5 years, as has what they are expected to do.  You see it in the LA Galaxy keepers....Diop is the classic European keeper that is most comfortable sitting on his line....either someone has told him to play out of the box or he's decided to imitate Neuer but he's not physically or by training suited to that style (at least not yet) and it's led time and time to disaster.  Rowe is the classic American keeper blocking with his legs and trying to catch it, but he can't really support the attack the way a sweeper-keeper can.  In the 90s, the kids that were recruited to play the role were big lugs who were often slow but could battle on the cross, English style.  In the 00's, they were giants, particularly in Europe, that were taught to not leave but to sit on their lines.  Everything has changed now, and speed and agility are the most vital aspect of a keeper....the training even in the US is changing along with it (my son recently switched form a 40 year old goalkeeper coach that taught him to bend his knee on the ground ball and he's switched to a younger one that wants him to forward dive on it, for example).  The US has to decide whether it's going to keep producing American-style goalkeepers like Rowe, or whether its going to switch to a sweeper-keeper format.  So, they'll be a break before we get some worldclass goalkeepers again, and one of the changes US soccer needs to do is improving the education of American goalkeepers (or something we did well in the past will become something we were passed by as the rest of the world evolves).


Howard jumped too early on the own goal. Howard was out of position on the strike 20 yards outside the box. Not sure how you don't put some blame on him. Any EPL keeper would have made both those saves.


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## JJP (Oct 11, 2017)

I've said this in other posts, but the US is lacking vs. soccer culture nations 1) massive numbers of talented kids playing street soccer (which is basically small sided soccer) for fun 3-4 hrs. per day.  There are so many legendary players that developed their dribbling and 1v1 skills on the streets before even setting foot in an academy.  2) Legit academies that refine these already highly skilled players teaching them how to pass and off ball movement with speed.

The US academies are catching up to the rest of the world.  In fact there are several countries whose academies are getting better, as they are all copying the systems that Cruyff developed at Ajax and Barcelona.  But until we can get better raw talent into the academy pipeline, great athletes with brilliant individual "street" flair developed from thousands of hours of playing for fun against other fantastic street players, our brand of soccer is going to be very plain vanilla, and reliant upon athleticism and work rate to win games.


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 11, 2017)

pulguita said:


> Great post Timbuck.  Let me give you a story for you all.  Our B2008 Blue team for the last 2 years has been getting its ass handed to them 6,8,10-zip.  This year we have been beating all those teams by 4,5,6 zip.  These kids have been drilled the Barca possession way for the past 3 seasons by an American coach that grew up here in SoCal, that didn't grow up playing possession but saw the writing on the wall 10 years ago that that was the wave of the future. 2 years ago ( he happens to be our DOC and we got a slew of coaches teaching the same thing) he got the parents (the whole f'ing key) to buy in and realize that we are going to get our asses handed to us for a few years but you just wait cause right now just doesn't matter as long as we get the foundation right.  Now we have to shut the jets off typically at half and knock the ball around in the second half.  Last week we were playing a team from the inland empire and this exact scenario played out.  The other coach was actually doing a fantastic job trying to get his team to play he just wasn't there yet.  After the game he asked our coach how the hell did you get those kids to play like that.  He told them the story.  He also told that coach he was doing a great job.  As folks were walking out to the parking lot a parent from the other team started berating that coach because  they lost and that he was a horrible coach.  One of our parents overheard the conversation went over to that other coach and said "Coach you could coach our kids anytime cause you're trying to do it right".   I think this sums up the situation in the US pretty damn good.


Sir I remember our conversations when our players were U11 about the coming wave.  You predicted it then and unfortunately like when Sir Edmund Halley predicted the comet would come back after his death.  You sir as I said then have great foresight.


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## JoeBieber (Oct 11, 2017)

JJP said:


> I've said this in other posts, but the US is lacking vs. soccer culture nations 1) massive numbers of talented kids playing street soccer (which is basically small sided soccer) for fun 3-4 hrs. per day.  There are so many legendary players that developed their dribbling and 1v1 skills on the streets before even setting foot in an academy.  2) Legit academies that refine these already highly skilled players teaching them how to pass and off ball movement with speed.
> 
> The US academies are catching up to the rest of the world.  In fact there are several countries whose academies are getting better, as they are all copying the systems that Cruyff developed at Ajax and Barcelona.  But until we can get better raw talent into the academy pipeline, great athletes with brilliant individual "street" flair developed from thousands of hours of playing for fun against other fantastic street players, our brand of soccer is going to be very plain vanilla, and reliant upon athleticism and work rate to win games.


Such a cop out. The mythical "street skills" argument. Are you talking about 7 year olds? Because there are no EPL players who were playing "street soccer" at 14 years old. They were identified and put into a structured training environment. I don't know what kind of "street soccer" you played but mine consisted of slide tackles, hard fouls and kickball. Superior players would benefit from structured training, not more hours of jungle ball.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 11, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> But you can't do that as long as you have a system, especially in the early years, where winning is so important.  I wrote about my dear niece's 2007 team, for example, where the parents are up in arms because the coaches are rotating the position instead of placing their strong striker up top and the other kids in 1 position so they can win.  Teams build around a player and individual play because they can win that way.  If they win, the coaches keep their jobs.  If they win, the club can brag about producing winning teams, and create B, C, and D teams that bring more revenue.  I'm a parent that thinks competition is good for kids and that the days of everyone takes a trophy were bad.  But I also see that the emphasis we've placed on winning at the lower youth levels is detrimental to our producing soccer IQ at the upper levels.


I agree with you that too much is placed on winning and the extents that are made to do so. Most of the emphasis of winning comes from clubs/coaches/parents. And, yes as Americans we like to win.  Yet, we are talking about the US Soccer Federation who is at a low time and faced with the reality that the USMNT is not good enough and in many respects has not been for a very long time. We also are beginning to see that USWNT is having issues as well. To continue to progress forward and not deal with the problems that plague US Soccer are disastrous. At the heart of the issue is that our players can't compete. So, how does a federation fix this? Change what is being taught. Give them the tools to do so. Start there and when that is established address the other challenges like the mentality of winning at all costs.


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## mirage (Oct 11, 2017)

You know what they say.... Everyone has an opinion, just like they have an a-hole....

So heres mine.  The loss last night, hopefully, will flush just about everyone currently is anyone in the USSF making national team decisions.

A clean slate is needed and a smaller and less grand approach to build a critical mass, and not a national program that spends over $1 billion/yr  between USSoccer and MLS.

I am certain that we can field 18 USA players that would have won last night and much more under the different decision makers.  Players exist and so do the coaches TODAY.

The critical mass needs to be VERY small, hand selected and with a single focus.  Not the big deal DA system or ODP and so on.  There are more talented players outside of these system because these systems only focuses on key metrics (e.g., speed, size, workrate and so on), and not enough on intangibles.

First, find a coach that has brilliant tactical mind and creativity.

Second, go around the country and hand select 25~30 players with creativity and technical skills that are intelligent with very high soccer IQ.  Unfortunately, most of DA players are coached under strict format and methods, such that any creatively they might have had has been washed out of them.

Third, co-located these players for the next U23 Olympic qualifier.  Not bring them only together for national pool regional session but live, breath and eat soccer together.

Keep them out of media and have them only scrimmage professional teams out of sight from public with no reporting to the media.

We've tried big system's approach filled with lots of issues.  Give a smaller, skunkworks-like approach and see how we do.


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## JJP (Oct 11, 2017)

JoeBieber said:


> Such a cop out. The mythical "street skills" argument. Are you talking about 7 year olds? Because there are no EPL players who were playing "street soccer" at 14 years old. They were identified and put into a structured training environment. I don't know what kind of "street soccer" you played but mine consisted of slide tackles, hard fouls and kickball. Superior players would benefit from structured training, not more hours of jungle ball.


Guys like Zidane, Wayne Rooney had already developed their skills playing pickup games, on streets, parking lots, basketball courts, before they entered academy.  There are tons of kids playing futsal or street soccer after school for hours every day in Brazilian favelas, all over S. America and in European cities.

You would be amazed at the incredible talent you see in a pickup game in any major French city.  European academies are not building kids from the ground up, they are selecting the cream from a pool of very talented, self developed players.


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 11, 2017)

JoeBieber said:


> Such a cop out. The mythical "street skills" argument. Are you talking about 7 year olds? Because there are no EPL players who were playing "street soccer" at 14 years old. They were identified and put into a structured training environment. I don't know what kind of "street soccer" you played but mine consisted of slide tackles, hard fouls and kickball. Superior players would benefit from structured training, not more hours of jungle ball.


This is right. The street soccer days are over in Europe and are closing in Latin America. Their academies identify much earlier, don't have the competition of college play, and both academics and sports are vigorously tracked sometimes at the expense of so-called late bloomers.


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## Grace T. (Oct 11, 2017)

JoeBieber said:


> Howard jumped too early on the own goal. Howard was out of position on the strike 20 yards outside the box. Not sure how you don't put some blame on him. Any EPL keeper would have made both those saves.


So now we're blaming the own goal on the keeper?  That's also soooo American.

The 2nd goal goes back to the American aspects of his training.  EPLs might have handled differently but then American and British keepers aren't taught to emphasize the strikes out of the box...the defensive coverage is supposed to shut that down.  not Howard's fault...it's the way he was trained to play...that's a systems not Howard issue.  He was where he'd be expected to be in American play and A block from that position would always be hard. Shot shouldn't have come from that place.


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## pulguita (Oct 11, 2017)

JoeBieber said:


> I'm sure this happened.


Validation or sarcasm?


----------



## *GOBEARGO* (Oct 11, 2017)

watfly said:


> FYI the US U-17 team currently playing in the U-17 World Cup has a sum total of zero players from SoCal.


What is your point?


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## watfly (Oct 11, 2017)

*GOBEARGO* said:


> What is your point?


I didn't have one, I was just stating a fact.  I was responding to a post that was talking about bringing the best players from SoCal together.  Thought it was interesting that the U-17 had none, but what that means I have no clue.


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## BigSoccer (Oct 11, 2017)

I will say this..
the current DA system hamstrings the country geographically.  There is no a DA in every city.   Are you going to tell me the best u16 player in Fresno CA has to drive an 1+ both ways if he wants to play DA? What about Tucson is there no talent there?  How about Vegas?  We expect the families to move for DA but US Soccer ignores them otherwise.  Yes the best pool and depth is here in SoCal but there is hidden talent that will never  be scene do to cost and geography.. Our MLS Academies approach players in a region and then tell them to figure out how to get here if they want to play.  LAG has a couple like that.  I know someone who was going to go to Casa Grande until they found out the cost.   The other part of the DA system is that we are a massive country traveling it to play together is difficult.  This brings me to who we are as a soccer country.  We are gritty, heels dug in not wanting to lose.  We are not the most tactical or technical but we play with heart and determination as if we are playing with a chip on our shoulder.  Las night the only thing we showed was we are not the most tactical or technical.  There were a few players out there that played with heart and passion but others were ready to get on the plane for the $$$$ waiting for them at home.  Let's get back to our roots and give a S.
Also, US Soccer give a core of training goals but let teams play how they want.  Let a team in TX play with what fits them... let LAG play with their style and GS with their toughness.. Let some team in NY play with flair and their own formations... let us find our way and unique styles..


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## Goforgoal (Oct 11, 2017)

I don't have anything to add as far as what US Soccer should do to fix this, but after watching some spots across several sports news programs, I instantly became a huge fan of Taylor Twellman. That guy knocked it out of the park with his comments/rants.


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## JoeBieber (Oct 11, 2017)

JJP said:


> Guys like Zidane, Wayne Rooney had already developed their skills playing pickup games, on streets, parking lots, basketball courts, before they entered academy.  There are tons of kids playing futsal or street soccer after school for hours every day in Brazilian favelas, all over S. America and in European cities.
> 
> You would be amazed at the incredible talent you see in a pickup game in any major French city.  European academies are not building kids from the ground up, they are selecting the cream from a pool of very talented, self developed players.


You are talking about 25+ years ago. Pro clubs identify 10 year olds these days. It's a different world. I'm tired of the "Americans don't play street soccer" argument. It's bunk.


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## JoeBieber (Oct 11, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> So now we're blaming the own goal on the keeper?  That's also soooo American.
> 
> The 2nd goal goes back to the American aspects of his training.  EPLs might have handled differently but then American and British keepers aren't taught to emphasize the strikes out of the box...the defensive coverage is supposed to shut that down.  not Howard's fault...it's the way he was trained to play...that's a systems not Howard issue.  He was where he'd be expected to be in American play and A block from that position would always be hard. Shot shouldn't have come from that place.


I don't care about where Howard was trained. You're telling me he wasn't trained to expect shots outside the box? I'd imagine that is offensive to him. He mistimed his jump and reacted slowly and was out of position in the 2nd goal. I'm not placing the blame solely on him, just responding to your initial comment that it wasn't his fault at all.


----------



## JJP (Oct 11, 2017)

JoeBieber said:


> You are talking about 25+ years ago. Pro clubs identify 10 year olds these days. It's a different world. I'm tired of the "Americans don't play street soccer" argument. It's bunk.


How many hours a day do they spend at academy?  2x a week for 1.5 hrs until 12, 3x a week for 1.5 hrs until 14 and then every day at 14.  There's plenty of time for pickup play and they do.


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## Grace T. (Oct 11, 2017)

JoeBieber said:


> I don't care about where Howard was trained. You're telling me he wasn't trained to expect shots outside the box? I'd imagine that is offensive to him. He mistimed his jump and reacted slowly and was out of position in the 2nd goal. I'm not placing the blame solely on him, just responding to your initial comment that it wasn't his fault at all.


Are you saying he was surprised by the shot and should have reacted sooner?  Maybe...but again American keepers aren't expecting the opposition to be able to take a clear kick from way out there.  His positioning was right where he should be given the position of the ball and the other players on the offensive.  Note there are 2 other players forward...one at the top of the box and an uncovered winger that he has to position for as well...and if Trinidad weren't out taking so many chances the more conservative play would have been to pass to either of them.  Fact remains that shot shouldn't have come.

Could it be that a European big keeper planted on his line with a bigger wingspan might have found that easier?  Maybe.  Could a fast keeper maybe have closed the angle a bit?  Maybe.  Might a younger keeper have had a bigger jump?  Maybe.  But that's all woulda coulda shoulda stuff.  For how Howard was trained and what he's expected to do, not at fault.


----------



## Desert Hound (Oct 11, 2017)

Many have mentioned the team played like crap last night...and they did. But the truth is they looked mediocre at best during the entire qualifying round.

I kept watching games and kept thinking...wow...this team is in trouble.

Go back further to the Gold Cup. We tied Panama in one game and beat Martinique 3-2 in another. We should kill those teams. They looked shaky at the time and have since then.

We should have beaten the team last night under normal circumstances....but this team right now is not very good.

A disappointing year.


----------



## Chalklines (Oct 11, 2017)

These clowns played with ZERO heart which makes me believe they just dont understand what it means to play for your country.


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## Grace T. (Oct 11, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Kevin Silva is going to be our next great keeper.  I will be surprised if he returns for his junior year at UCLA.


Great keeper.  Have only seen him play twice.  But his style is a bit all over the place (no doubt because his coaching has been all over the place...he still plays it very much in the box from what little I've seen) and it's a shame he burned 2 playing collegiate.  He's going to run into the problem that American keeping doesn't know what it wants to be right now, so might be better served trying to play in Europe for a few years than the American leagues.

Los Dos have high hopes for Vom Steeg, who IIRC has played in Germany and whose father was/is a soccer coach.


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## Grace T. (Oct 11, 2017)

Apparently all's well as far as Arena and Gulati are concerned

http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-world-cup-soccer-20171011-story.html


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## coachrefparent (Oct 11, 2017)

JoeBieber said:


> I don't care about where Howard was trained. You're telling me he wasn't trained to expect shots outside the box? I'd imagine that is offensive to him. He mistimed his jump and reacted slowly and was out of position in the 2nd goal. I'm not placing the blame solely on him, just responding to your initial comment that it wasn't his fault at all.


Her kid's a keeper, so she's oriented to defend them. Us vs them, my side vs. your side, etc. Just like society.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 11, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Apparently all's well as far as Arena and Gulati are concerned
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-world-cup-soccer-20171011-story.html


It does. Both responded like spin doctors. Telling us everything is fine. Ugh...


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 11, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> Her kid's a keeper, so she's oriented to defend them. Us vs them, my side vs. your side, etc. Just like society.


I'll flip it on you.  Most kids are field players, so of course it's the keepers fault.  Us v. them, my side vs. your side.  Just like society...or more like American society...yeah keepers take flack in Europe too but not to the extent they do here and they aren't expected to be miracle workers either--- even Neuer gets scored on.


----------



## tylerdurden (Oct 11, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Apparently all's well as far as Arena and Gulati are concerned
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-world-cup-soccer-20171011-story.html


If both of these tools aren't shown the door, then we deserve everything we get. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.


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## JoeBieber (Oct 11, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> I'll flip it on you.  Most kids are field players, so of course it's the keepers fault.  Us v. them, my side vs. your side.  Just like society...or more like American society...yeah keepers take flack in Europe too but not to the extent they do here and they aren't expected to be miracle workers either--- even Neuer gets scored on.


Neuer would have made both saves. Howard, to me, looked fat and slow and got the start based on his reputation. 

I actually like Howard. He was a great keeper. But not last night.


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## Grace T. (Oct 11, 2017)

JoeBieber said:


> Neuer would have made both saves. Howard, to me, looked fat and slow and got the start based on his reputation.
> 
> I actually like Howard. He was a great keeper. But not last night.


Errr...look familiar (and from closer).    If Howard had truly f'ed it, as opposed to well maybe someone else coulda done better in that particular circumstance, I'd be the first on his case.






or


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## younothat (Oct 11, 2017)

Wow all those millions for what?   Women's team look like a bargain, at least they produce results  

From https://twitter.com/WaltHickey/status/917937410872430596


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## timbuck (Oct 11, 2017)

tylerdurden said:


> If both of these tools aren't shown the door, then we deserve everything we get. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.


I've heard about 6 interviews with Taylor Twellman in the past 20 hours.  He kept repeating the "Definition of Insanity" quote.  Did he just hear this for the first time and is now trying to spread it to the world?

If my kids didn't love playing soccer, I would have protested US Soccer with my wallet last year when they honked up the age groups.


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## tylerdurden (Oct 11, 2017)

timbuck said:


> I've heard about 6 interviews with Taylor Twellman in the past 20 hours.  He kept repeating the "Definition of Insanity" quote.  Did he just hear this for the first time and is not trying to spread it to the world?
> 
> If my kids didn't love playing soccer, I would have protested US Soccer with my wallet last year when they honked up the age groups.


I've heard one interview with him where he sounded like he was seriously going to have an aneurysm on camera...he was SO pissed and rightfully so. I've been using that saying for years and in this situation, if they don't fire these guys, it's exactly what it is...insanity.

Kinda like Lucy and Charlie Brown with the football, same scenario over and over but expecting a different result.

There's two ways this can go down. The USSF shows Arena and Gulati the door and rebuild or they double down with stupid and continue down the drain.


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## sdb (Oct 11, 2017)

JoeBieber said:


> Neuer would have made both saves. Howard, to me, looked fat and slow and got the start based on his reputation.
> 
> I actually like Howard. He was a great keeper. But not last night.


C’mon, that 2nd goal was a ridiculous shot. 1 inch off the far post into the side netting. That guy will never score another goal like that ever. And he should have never been given that much time and space.


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## espola (Oct 11, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Apparently all's well as far as Arena and Gulati are concerned
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-world-cup-soccer-20171011-story.html


Gulati got the job because of his influence in MLS.  He was never a serious player, coach, or referee.  The origin of his career was apparently re-organizing the water cart at a state ODP camp.  Everybody liked his result so much that he just kept getting promoted.

Reminds me of this --


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## Toepuncher (Oct 11, 2017)

There's to much focus on winning, than development at the youth level. In my opinion.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 11, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> It does. Both responded like spin doctors. Telling us everything is fine. Ugh...


But wasn't


espola said:


> Gulati got the job because of his influence in MLS.  He was never a serious player, coach, or referee.  The origin of his career was apparently re-organizing the water cart at a state ODP camp.  Everybody liked his result so much that he just kept getting promoted.
> 
> Reminds me of this --


Didn't know Sunil was a water-boy.


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## timbuck (Oct 11, 2017)

How does he not resign today?
(He= Gulati.  Bruce won't have to resign. He just won't be asked back when the US plays Belize in a friendly next year).


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## younothat (Oct 11, 2017)

U.S. Soccer failures has an easy fix
https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/world-cup-articles/us-soccer-failures-has-an-easy-fix_aid43012

"U.S. Soccer is held back by the closed market that has kept the Major League Soccer (MLS) franchise owners happy, but the rest of the sport hindered for over two decades. A closed market that provides a safety net to encourage mediocrity and punish greatness. It’s the antithesis of growth and success. It stands against everything that the American dream represents. Yet this league has prospered financially in the States because the Federation endorses it as the First Division of Professional Soccer."

"If you are actually passionate about the future of this sport, supporting franchises that stand in the way of actual growth is a direct hindrance. If you want to see the actual potential of soccer in this country to be unleashed, act with your dollar and voice support for an open market. 

An open market allows for clubs to move up the pyramid with promotion or to fall off with relegation. It encourages player development with success from clubs being built to sell-on players and profit from that business. It creates an environment where innovation is encouraged and individuals are driven to their best. 

While it may seem like a grand dream, there really is an obvious path to changing the culture of the sport in this country. U.S. Soccer Federation needs to step up and realize that this current closed system is not just or fair. Or even beneficial to the mission of the Federation. 

This is not a 10-year change or even a five-year change. This is an immediate change that can happen as soon as 2018. U.S. Soccer Federation tells MLS they need to open a path to the league and create an open market or U.S. Soccer will endorse another league as the First Division of Professional Soccer in this country. 

An open market will improve the culture of the sport overnight. Competition breeds excellence and as long as there is no real competition, there is no real need for teams to pursue excellence. 

It’s time for the arrogance of U.S. Soccer, MLS, and other figureheads to realize this failure is not fixed from a coaching hire or a hope that the next generation will be better. It’s time to change the basic fabric of the game in this country. 

It’s time to support an open market."


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## Azzurri (Oct 11, 2017)

*The Missing Years: U.S. Soccer’s Development Gap*
Brian Sciaretta explored the past three decades of player development and noticed few players born in the early 1990s have panned out—a situation that continues to haunt the men's national team.

http://americansoccernow.com/articles/the-missing-years-u-s-soccer-s-development-gap#/.WddNFNcwH3A.facebook

Pundits have questioned tactics, player selection, heart, and a whole other set of issues. What is rarely discussed, however, is a black hole of development among the American-born/raised players born in 1990-1994 and 1996.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 12, 2017)

Azzurri said:


> *The Missing Years: U.S. Soccer’s Development Gap*
> Brian Sciaretta explored the past three decades of player development and noticed few players born in the early 1990s have panned out—a situation that continues to haunt the men's national team.
> 
> http://americansoccernow.com/articles/the-missing-years-u-s-soccer-s-development-gap#/.WddNFNcwH3A.facebook
> ...


Interesting and informative article. It does answer a few questions as to why USMNT is troubled, but many more questions are still left unanswered.


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## ajaxahi (Oct 12, 2017)

In the past what the USMNT might have lacked in technical skill and sophistication they made up for in grit and work rate, determination and a refusal to lose.  Against Trinidad they didn't even have that.

So now we are hearing the usual grumbling about US youth soccer placing too much focus on winning vs. development.  I think this is misguided and overly simplistic, and in our search for answers we need to be very careful not to sacrifice our drive to win.  It's the whole point of playing the game after all.  

The experience of successful soccer countries around the world has shown that winning and development are not necessarily mutually exclusive.  Here's an instructive article about how in Spain, winning is a fundamental part of youth soccer training culture from the very young ages.  Oh yeah, and they are pretty good at development too.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/these-football-times/2016/nov/28/english-football-coaches-barcelona-winning-natural-instinct


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## watfly (Oct 12, 2017)

ajaxahi said:


> In the past what the USMNT might have lacked in technical skill and sophistication they made up for in grit and work rate, determination and a refusal to lose.  Against Trinidad they didn't even have that.
> 
> So now we are hearing the usual grumbling about US youth soccer placing too much focus on winning vs. development.  I think this is misguided and overly simplistic, and in our search for answers we need to be very careful not to sacrifice our drive to win.  It's the whole point of playing the game after all.
> 
> ...


One of the things that struck me about the article was the use of video analysis.  I think video analysis of your own play and the play of successful teams particularly as it relates to decision making would be a critical tool in improving soccer IQ.  I think for most kids its easier to learn visually rather than verbally.  How many clubs include video analysis in their training?  From what I have seen its few, if any.


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## Sons of Pitches (Oct 12, 2017)

watfly said:


> One of the things that struck me about the article was the use of video analysis.  I think video analysis of your own play and the play of successful teams particularly as it relates to decision making would be a critical tool in improving soccer IQ.  I think for most kids its easier to learn visually rather than verbally.  How many clubs include video analysis in their training?  From what I have seen its few, if any.


11 of our 14 games this year will be on film.  Our coach will do 2 film breakdown meetings this year.

I would think with the  proliferation of websites like Hudle, VidSwap, etc... there must be many teams doing video analysis, from what research I have done these services are growing and relatively affordable if you split it between all the families on a team.


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## Surfref (Oct 12, 2017)

IMHO the problems start at the youth level.  The pay-to-play system and multiple gaming league systems need to be overhauled.

I think the biggest problem is the youth coach education.  Too many coaches just get their initial 16 hours of E training and never get any further training.  Some get their D training, but few go past D.  The lowest level (Grade 8) referees are required to get (yearly) 5 hours of face to face training, complete 3 hours of online training and take a test.  Most licensed professionals are required to attend a designated number of hours of continuing education.  How come soccer coaches do not have to attend a designated number of hours of training to keep their coaching license?  Coach licenses should be good for two years and only renewed after the completion of a designated number of hours (I would suggest 20 hours) of continuing coaching education to include concussion protocol, LOTG changes, goalkeeper training techniques and coaching techniques, or move to the next higher coaching license level.  The training needs to be standardized by US Soccer and administered by certified trainers.  US Soccer already has a blueprint for training and certification in the Referee program, so it would be fairly easy to implement for the coaches.  This would help build better coaches at the youth level and force out the lazy and bad coaches.


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2017)

ajaxahi said:


> The experience of successful soccer countries around the world has shown that winning and development are not necessarily mutually exclusive.  Here's an instructive article about how in Spain, winning is a fundamental part of youth soccer training culture from the very young ages.  Oh yeah, and they are pretty good at development too.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/football/these-football-times/2016/nov/28/english-football-coaches-barcelona-winning-natural-instinct


Great article.  "they are pretty good at development too".   Well, that's the point.  The Spanish have a long tradition of playing it at the feet and building.  The Americans have a long tradition of trying to use their athleticism in direct soccer as opposed to finesse.    There are two ways to go at this.  One is to say run-and-sock 'em soccer is o.k....it's just our American style...s the rondos and the passing game.....s the rest of the thinking soccer is a negative game about mistake avoidance instead of making the score....let's develop our own American style based on who we are and what works and stop trying to imitate others.
  The other is to say that the possession game really matters and we should try to develop it...but it takes time to develop that game and teams that try to do it are going to lose against teams that play the direct style...since we have a play to pay system, and coaches are only judged on wins/loses (there really is no other official stick parents have to judge them, in fairness to the parents), the emphasis on winning and losing hurts the development of the possession game, especially early on.  U.S. Soccer, rightly or wrongly, has made the decision learning the possession game is important, and its recommendations are to deemphasize winning as a result until age 12, but they lacked the courage of their convictions to make that mandatory, which meant nothing changed.  It's like the old saying, you can have it fast, good or cheap...pick two.  You can have it competitive, possession-oriented or professional, pick 2, under the current pay to play system.

Note Spain doesn't have the same pay to play system.  They select kids from a very early age.  What jumped out at me most about the article was 8 hour bus trip.  It's a job to these kids.  It's their future, so of course they are invested in it.  Video review and then laps before training even begins?  Well they don't say but you can imagine how much time they are practicing.


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## beachbum (Oct 12, 2017)

All I here is there push toward academy and focus on development.  The men have been doing this for 10 years with the DA and there may be less talent in the pipeline now than there was 10 years ago.  This comes in the face that soccer is the fastest growing sport in the country.  So US Soccer says this is working so lets use it for the woman.  Don't give me the BS that everyone else in the world is catching up, yes of course they are just as everyone has caught up to North Carolina from 20 years ago;  there is more competition.  All they did and continue to do is dilute the talent between the various programs DA, ECNL, NPL, DPL CSL or any other nick nack paddy whack program these aholes can come up with.  All coach's and clubs care about is try to hold on to their best/all players/$$.  This needs to be streamlined to one top national league with relegation and promotion (Competition).  We are Americans and have influences from all over the world in soccer and otherwise.  Let these various influences create the players not one system where all players are treated like robots to the  exact same thing.


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## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2017)

Surfref said:


> IMHO the problems start at the youth level.  The pay-to-play system and multiple gaming league systems need to be overhauled.
> 
> I think the biggest problem is the youth coach education.  Too many coaches just get their initial 16 hours of E training and never get any further training.  Some get their D training, but few go past D.  The lowest level (Grade 8) referees are required to get (yearly) 5 hours of face to face training, complete 3 hours of online training and take a test.  Most licensed professionals are required to attend a designated number of hours of continuing education.  How come soccer coaches do not have to attend a designated number of hours of training to keep their coaching license?  Coach licenses should be good for two years and only renewed after the completion of a designated number of hours (I would suggest 20 hours) of continuing coaching education to include concussion protocol, LOTG changes, goalkeeper training techniques and coaching techniques, or move to the next higher coaching license level.  The training needs to be standardized by US Soccer and administered by certified trainers.  US Soccer already has a blueprint for training and certification in the Referee program, so it would be fairly easy to implement for the coaches.  This would help build better coaches at the youth level and force out the lazy and bad coaches.


Totally agree with this.  My AYSO refs license was more extensive than my 8, and my father's AYSO coaching training was longer and more in depth than my E.  The AYSO material and curriculum is also much better, at least as far as kids just starting out learning the game and needing to know the basics.


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## beachbum (Oct 12, 2017)

Surfref said:


> IMHO the problems start at the youth level.  The pay-to-play system and multiple gaming league systems need to be overhauled.
> 
> I think the biggest problem is the youth coach education.  Too many coaches just get their initial 16 hours of E training and never get any further training.  Some get their D training, but few go past D.  The lowest level (Grade 8) referees are required to get (yearly) 5 hours of face to face training, complete 3 hours of online training and take a test.  Most licensed professionals are required to attend a designated number of hours of continuing education.  How come soccer coaches do not have to attend a designated number of hours of training to keep their coaching license?  Coach licenses should be good for two years and only renewed after the completion of a designated number of hours (I would suggest 20 hours) of continuing coaching education to include concussion protocol, LOTG changes, goalkeeper training techniques and coaching techniques, or move to the next higher coaching license level.  The training needs to be standardized by US Soccer and administered by certified trainers.  US Soccer already has a blueprint for training and certification in the Referee program, so it would be fairly easy to implement for the coaches.  This would help build better coaches at the youth level and force out the lazy and bad coaches.


This is the other thing I keep hearing about.  We need more "A" licensed coach's. Just because a coach has a designation does mean he can coach.  I've seen plenty of "A" "B" licensed coach's not being able to coach their team out of a paper bag.  Also seen coach's with low or no license do a tremendous job of teaching/coaching.


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## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2017)

beachbum said:


> This is the other thing I keep hearing about.  We need more "A" licensed coach's. Just because a coach has a designation does mean he can coach.  I've seen plenty of "A" "B" licensed coach's not being able to coach their team out of a paper bag.  Also seen coach's with low or no license do a tremendous job of teaching/coaching.


Well, the other issue there is we mean a lot of different things when we say "good coach".  Is a good coach a tactician that is going to win games and bring the club home a Surf Cup win?  Is the coach a good manager that's going to keep the team and parents unified going forward, and can pick a winning cohesive unit and select talent appropriately?  Is a good coach someone who'll impart skills to each individual player, teaching the striker how to make that toe pick under the goalie rushing at him, or getting the keeper that extra half inch on the jump?  Is a good coach someone whose going to improve the kids soccer IQ?  Is a good coach someone who is focused on the team as a unit, emphasize guided self-learning and imparting them a possession-based overall education?    The licensing education is about the last one for US soccer.  It's going to be even more so given that the "let 'em play" advocates have US soccer's ear, trying to recreate a street soccer environment, which goes completely against the Guardian article ajaxahi posted.  That's why I always find it funny when parents ask a particular private trainer what's your license level since it has nothing to do with that.


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## Surfref (Oct 12, 2017)

beachbum said:


> This is the other thing I keep hearing about.  We need more "A" licensed coach's. Just because a coach has a designation does mean he can coach.  I've seen plenty of "A" "B" licensed coach's not being able to coach their team out of a paper bag.  Also seen coach's with low or no license do a tremendous job of teaching/coaching.


If the coach sucks, the customer, parents, need to take their kid to a different coach.  If the coach has no players to coach than they will be forced to learn to be a better coach or go coach baseball.  I firmly believe that if US Soccer had a program that required coaches to receive continuous training and evaluations to maintain their license, than we would have better and more dedicated coaches.


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## timbuck (Oct 12, 2017)

Good luck with the coaching education. 
Here is the current schedule offered by Cal-South.
http://cysa.affinitysoccer.com/eventmanager/public/calendarlist.asp?calguid=&eventtab=current

There is a "D" course that started in July. The cost is $395.  And has the wrap up weekend on 10/21-10/22 (the date on the actual course page is different that what is listed on the link above).  How many parents would be happy that their coach is skipping games in the middle of the week to attend a coaching class?
And how many coaches are able to make plans 6 months in advance to take this course?  And this is just for the "D".

But there are 7 "E" license courses between now and mid-December.

And looking at options for the "C" license.  The cost for the "C" is $1,850.  And you have to either live near a training center or stay in a hotel for an initial week and then again for 3 nights a few months later.  Currently there is only 1 class scheduled in the next few months.  It's in Tukwila, WA.


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## charlie murphy (Oct 12, 2017)

Surfref said:


> If the coach sucks, the customer, parents, need to take their kid to a different coach.  If the coach has no players to coach than they will be forced to learn to be a better coach or go coach baseball.  I firmly believe that if US Soccer had a program that required coaches to receive continuous training and evaluations to maintain their license, than we would have better and more dedicated coaches.


If coaches weren't baby sitters for 17 to 19 kids from 7-9 pm 3 days per week and were coaching,  not well paid sitters US soccer would improve. If they were required to have continuous training,  based on US soccer principles,  you would have more "highly trained" baby sitters looking to get a wage adjustment delivering more drills to keep the kids happy for 2 hours and continuing to get paid. How many coaches on this forum are pointing fingers. We should be pointing our fingers at you. You are the foundation of this program. You are also the solution to this situation .  You should be preparing YOUR plays now so that this does not happen again in 4 years. Are you up to the task?


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## coachrefparent (Oct 12, 2017)

Surfref said:


> IMHO the problems start at the youth level.  The pay-to-play system and multiple gaming league systems need to be overhauled.
> 
> I think the biggest problem is the youth coach education.  Too many coaches just get their initial 16 hours of E training and never get any further training.  Some get their D training, but few go past D.  The lowest level (Grade 8) referees are required to get (yearly) 5 hours of face to face training, complete 3 hours of online training and take a test.  Most licensed professionals are required to attend a designated number of hours of continuing education.  How come soccer coaches do not have to attend a designated number of hours of training to keep their coaching license?  Coach licenses should be good for two years and only renewed after the completion of a designated number of hours (I would suggest 20 hours) of continuing coaching education to include concussion protocol, LOTG changes, goalkeeper training techniques and coaching techniques, or move to the next higher coaching license level.  The training needs to be standardized by US Soccer and administered by certified trainers.  US Soccer already has a blueprint for training and certification in the Referee program, so it would be fairly easy to implement for the coaches.  This would help build better coaches at the youth level and force out the lazy and bad coaches.


And the E license "training" itself is severely lacking. Not enough technical lessons, too much emphasis on the physical mechanics. A few hours in the class teaching child psychology and nutrition, then they run you around on the field like you are trying out for a team; treating you more like a player than a coach trainee. They seem to think every participant just finished playing for a D-1 school or MLS club. When I took it years back, there were lots of people that had little to no soccer background, and those poor folks really weren't much better off at the end.


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## coachrefparent (Oct 12, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Well, the other issue there is we mean a lot of different things when we say "good coach".  Is a good coach a tactician that is going to win games and bring the club home a Surf Cup win?  Is the coach a good manager that's going to keep the team and parents unified going forward, and can pick a winning cohesive unit and select talent appropriately?  Is a good coach someone who'll impart skills to each individual player, teaching the striker how to make that toe pick under the goalie rushing at him, or getting the keeper that extra half inch on the jump?  Is a good coach someone whose going to improve the kids soccer IQ?  Is a good coach someone who is focused on the team as a unit, emphasize guided self-learning and imparting them a possession-based overall education?    The licensing education is about the last one for US soccer.  It's going to be even more so given that the "let 'em play" advocates have US soccer's ear, trying to recreate a street soccer environment, which goes completely against the Guardian article ajaxahi posted.  That's why I always find it funny when parents ask a particular private trainer what's your license level since it has nothing to do with that.


A good coach is a lot of those things. A great coach is all of them.


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## Surfref (Oct 12, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Good luck with the coaching education.
> Here is the current schedule offered by Cal-South.
> http://cysa.affinitysoccer.com/eventmanager/public/calendarlist.asp?calguid=&eventtab=current
> 
> ...


For Cal South area, I am talking about 1-2 hour sessions given monthly or bi-monthly and local clubs take turns sponsoring the training (providing a venue) and a Cal South instructor provides the training.  Cost could be $5-10 per person or raise the cost of a coaches license by $50 yearly to cover the training costs.  This is basically how Referee training is done.

If my kid’s coach had to miss a couple practices or games because he was attending coaches training, I would good with it.  I do know enough coaches that have moved up in coaching license level and they were all able to plan it out in advance and most of them hem had the  training paid for by the club they worked for.  It would also be a good tax write off.


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## Dos Equis (Oct 12, 2017)

Azzurri said:


> *The Missing Years: U.S. Soccer’s Development Gap*
> Brian Sciaretta explored the past three decades of player development and noticed few players born in the early 1990s have panned out—a situation that continues to haunt the men's national team.
> 
> http://americansoccernow.com/articles/the-missing-years-u-s-soccer-s-development-gap#/.WddNFNcwH3A.facebook
> ...


This line, from the article, sums up much of the problem:  
_
"But maybe youth national teams and other youth programs did not scout, identify, and explore big enough player pools with a wide enough net."_

By starting academy related travel programs at 10 years old, picking the clubs who get to participate, excluding certain geographies, creating and encouraging more closed systems, requiring very young players give up all but soccer, US Soccer is narrowing their pool even more. And to top it off, we are are watching them do the same to our girls by forcing an academy on that successful system. 

US Soccer and the powers that be have created a youth soccer culture of priviledge, and we are surpised when our players fail to display the desire, intensity and focus to succeed.  It is the exact opposite of the youth model for every other successful professional sport in the USA.  Stop looking outward at other countries, and start understanding what works for the families and kids right here.

We just got our a** kicked by a bunch of countries (other than Mexico) that are all smaller in population than Los Angeles county.  Do not tell me about our better athletes going to other sports.  There is tremendous popularity in soccer in this country at the youth level.  Our leaders have failed to correctly manage that interest.


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## timbuck (Oct 12, 2017)

Surfref said:


> For Cal South area, I am talking about 1-2 hour sessions given monthly or bi-monthly and local clubs take turns sponsoring the training (providing a venue) and a Cal South instructor provides the training.  Cost could be $5-10 per person or raise the cost of a coaches license by $50 yearly to cover the training costs.  This is basically how Referee training is done.
> 
> If my kid’s coach had to miss a couple practices or games because he was attending coaches training, I would good with it.  I do know enough coaches that have moved up in coaching license level and they were all able to plan it out in advance and most of them hem had the  training paid for by the club they worked for.  It would also be a good tax write off.


I like the idea.  
But then you'd have coaches fighting in the parking lot over player poaching, sandbagging and foul play.
Actually, I like it even more now.  I'd pay $25 to attend.


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## Multi Sport (Oct 12, 2017)

espola said:


> And Pulisic was not "developed" by the Academy.
> 
> When they started the PDA program 10 years ago, they should have started with 10-year-olds.  If it had worked as they intended, we would now have a bumper crop of hundreds of world-class 20-year-olds.


Our U 17s look good.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 12, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Good luck with the coaching education.
> Here is the current schedule offered by Cal-South.
> http://cysa.affinitysoccer.com/eventmanager/public/calendarlist.asp?calguid=&eventtab=current
> 
> ...


Biggest reasons I know coaches havent gone past D/C. Traveling to get a license that doesnt benefit them in what they are doing NOW. Sometimes traveling to the east coast for a course? not realistic


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## timbuck (Oct 12, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Good luck with the coaching education.
> Here is the current schedule offered by Cal-South.
> http://cysa.affinitysoccer.com/eventmanager/public/calendarlist.asp?calguid=&eventtab=current
> 
> ...


I actually have an idea here.  
US Soccer or at least Cal-South needs to mandate July as a "no-play month."  Maybe do the same in December.
This is the month where coaches get education.  Conduct "E" license classes every weekend.  Offer the first round of the "D" course the 2nd week of July.  Have a Goalkeeper session 2x in July.  Have a C and B course option.  Allow anyone that already has a license to attend the course again for free (IE -if you already have your E then you can show up for the class again to see what has changed.  Same with the "D" -  don't want to get your "C", but want to keep up?  Show up for the "D" course again.
During a few weekdays in July, all of the mega clubs with affiliates conduct their own coach training sessions.  Each affiliate is required to bring in an instructor and have coaches participate in 6 hours of on-the field training.  The clubs bring in their players to run through the sessions with these trainers.  Coaches observe, help and interact.  If the coach has a vacation planned during the time his affiliate is having their training, they need to attend another affiliates training.


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## JJP (Oct 12, 2017)

If we compare talent identification in the US to, say, Brazil (another large country with a spread out population), here are what I see as the key differences.

1. Brazil has the "soccer culture", there are former pro or semi-pro players all over that informally train family, friends, neighborhood kids, plus there are games from local teams in lower level leagues to teams in the top Brazilian leagues.  So the kids are getting high level exposure from a very young age.

2. These kids are playing from a young age street soccer or futsal all the time, getting better and developing on their own.  There are so many former pros or local teams around, the best of these kids get picked up by local teams, whether they have money or not.  When these kids get picked up by pro teams, they are far ahead of where US players are from all the self play.

In contrast, in the US, scouting is haphazard and worse players with connections are picked up over more talented players.  You can't blame USSDA for this, there's no way they can cover a huge territory with scouts.  You can't blame the clubs for picking only kids that can pay, because clubs can't sell players.

3. Local clubs develop players and sell the best ones to bigger clubs for more money, and keep some of the players they trained to put on their own team.  The team sells tickets and jerseys to cover costs.

US teams can't sell good players, there's no incentive to develop them.  I don't even know if US teams can sell tickets with homegrown players, Galaxy advertises their latest European former superstar to sell tickets.

Basically, when you have a strong soccer culture (lots of local pro teams and kids playing pickup on their own) plus proper economic incentives (teams wanting to develop skilled players to sell and put on their own team), the process of identifying and developing top talent is straightforward.

In the US, it's a tortured process to ID'ing and developing top talent.


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## younothat (Oct 12, 2017)

Landon Donovan: *Time to Re-evaluate U.S. Soccer*
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/12/sports/soccer/usmnt-world-cup-landon-donovan.html

“I think there are a number of reasons we’re missing the best kids, but the fact is we are missing a lot of the best kids,” Donovan said. “And that should not be the situation in a country of this size, with the resources we have, where kids are getting passed over for any reason, whether it’s socioeconomic status, race, religion, proximity to a club. Our best, most talented kids should have the opportunity that everybody else has. There’s no easy answer to that. But it’s something that needs to be fixed"

“The fan part of me says it’s time to move away from the past and get a new president,” said Kyle Martino, a former national team midfielder and current TV analyst. “Sunil has done great things for U.S. Soccer but recently is harming the program more than he’s helping it. And I think that’s kind of natural in any position where someone remains unchallenged for so long and fresh ideas aren’t invited and executed"

“There’s real significant and immediate economic impact and there’s long-term unquantifiable impact as far as kids that may have watched the World Cup next summer who will now lose that opportunity to be inspired by the U.S.,” Donovan said.

“What we have to do now is realize that it’s over, and instead of finger-pointing and name-calling and the blame game, we need people in leadership positions to sit down and re-evaluate things and ask ourselves how do we prevent this from happening again.”

*Time to clean house*: World Cup failure demands huge changes at U.S. Soccer
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/united-states-fails-to-qualify-for-2018-world-cup-sunil-gulati-resign-bruce-arena

"Change president. Change coach. Change how players are developed. Everything should be on the table after the USMNT's failure in Trinidad"  

The change cannot wait.

"This is not a result that stands on its own. It traces back to the beginning of qualification under Jurgen Klinsmann. It transitions to the second Bruce Arena tenure. It carries over both because the players never changed and the results never improved. This falls on two coaches and a group of players who should have been better. And ultimately, it falls on Gulati"

"The job should start on the youth fields. The under-15 and under-16 kids will be the ones on the U.S. team when this country likely hosts the World Cup again in 2026. U.S. Soccer must find a way to reach them now and to develop them better than it has in every cycle to this point. It must find a way to improve the national team programs in the long term, not the short. Forget about a coaching hire and firing Bruce Arena. The person roaming the sideline won’t help soothe anything until 2022. That’s a long way away.

The work has to start right away. The transformation has to start right away. On a night when this country had its most historic failure in this sport’s history, it has to be the start of epic change."


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## El Clasico (Oct 12, 2017)

Absolutely nothing will change. Mark my words.
Everyone is bitching and complaining about the US not making the WC but for there to be real change, it would require a complete top to bottom evaluation and changes....and that is not going to happen.
Everybody is too comfortable
MLS is making decent enough money
USSF is making a killing
Cash Clubs love their business model just the way it is
Parents are addicted to the Pay to Pay model because, honestly, if we got rid of it, half of the white, suburban, upper middle class kids who now play would be watching true ballers from the bench. Forget about the kids, what would that do to all those self-important parent's, sitting around with their Starbucks, self esteem? 

So then what gives? Which group is going to be the first to step up and rally for change?

Like I said....Absolutely nothing will change.

The USMNT sucks. But hey, don't mess with it. I got a good thing going here.


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## Dr. Richard Hurtz (Oct 12, 2017)

I’ve posted on this forum before and I was made fun of because I said I hurl soccer balls as hard as I can at my son since he was little, to teach him control. 

Since he could walk I taught him the proper techniques to strike a ball, for every situation. I never let him toe poke. I’m hard on my kid. But he respects it and loves the honesty when I give him feed back. If he played like crap I tell him he played like crap. I don’t sugar coat it. If he played well then I tell him he played well. 

My point is we are too politically correct for every god damn little thing in this country. We raise little divas who all think their the next rock star Ronaldo. I see all too often kids playing fancy trying stupid shit in games instead of doing the smart thing. 

Be honest with your children. Don’t talk down to them but do inform and work on their problem areas. I see it as the way of school. If your child comes home with bad grades you correct their behaviors. If your child keeps making the same bad moves in soccer matches ( Omar Gonzalez) you acknowledge it and train better. 

Us parents are the problems. We watch our children’s soccer matches with blinders on. Watch his or her next match as if you were the scout...  would you want that kid on the National team??
Asks yourselves.


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## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2017)

Dr. Richard Hurtz said:


> I never let him toe poke. .


Not trying to be facetious but then you aren't teaching him right.  A toe poke can be effective if the ball is right there in the goal box and you are trying to get it under the keeper before he can dive on it, or the one on one if you can poke it past right before the keeper smashes into your legs and jump over the keeper.  To say never toe poke is hyperbole.  Yes, the toe poke can prevent other development and should be discouraged at the early ages...but to say never toe poke is wrong.  It's this type of orthodoxy which limits the creativity of our players.


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## ajaxahi (Oct 12, 2017)

Dr. Richard Hurtz said:


> I’ve posted on this forum before and I was made fun of because I said I hurl soccer balls as hard as I can at my son since he was little, to teach him control.
> 
> Since he could walk I taught him the proper techniques to strike a ball, for every situation. I never let him toe poke. I’m hard on my kid. But he respects it and loves the honesty when I give him feed back. If he played like crap I tell him he played like crap. I don’t sugar coat it. If he played well then I tell him he played well.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a fun car ride home.


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## xav10 (Oct 13, 2017)

Dr. Richard Hurtz said:


> I’ve posted on this forum before and I was made fun of because I said I hurl soccer balls as hard as I can at my son since he was little, to teach him control.
> 
> Since he could walk I taught him the proper techniques to strike a ball, for every situation. I never let him toe poke. I’m hard on my kid. But he respects it and loves the honesty when I give him feed back. If he played like crap I tell him he played like crap. I don’t sugar coat it. If he played well then I tell him he played well.
> 
> ...


Love the hard-core approach. I do the same and really can't hang with all the parents who have such an incorrect (and often stated!) view of their own kid's talent and prospects. Every once in a while I will even get a reality check by asking another knowledgeable parent their view of the kids' (including mine) performances. It's been very helpful.


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## charlie murphy (Oct 13, 2017)

let's talk about the merit of the toe poke. yeah that's it . not that I agree with Rich but grace I think you miss the point. maybe if coaches went to more classes on the "art of the Toe poke" that would fix what is wrong with US soccer. oh yeah now we are back on topic.


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## tylerdurden (Oct 13, 2017)

http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2017/10/12/19/19/20171013-news-mnt-bruce-arena-resigns-as-us-mens-national-team-head-coach

One down, at least one more to go.


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## espola (Oct 13, 2017)

tylerdurden said:


> http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2017/10/12/19/19/20171013-news-mnt-bruce-arena-resigns-as-us-mens-national-team-head-coach
> 
> One down, at least one more to go.


Whoever is responsible for the heading restrictions and buildout lines should walk the plank next.


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## BigSoccer (Oct 13, 2017)

Ok.  So I decided to do a little research on youth soccer in England and Germany and guess what.  You pay to play.  The way you pay varies from club to club and there are tons of clubs in those two countries.  Some clubs in smaller towns have the "youth league" which is less expensive and then they funnel the better players to the youth club teams.  Some are in the National League or 3rd tiers.  These are smaller towns but even then there is a cost to be on that team that comes with eventual travel.   I do not know if the players on these "club teams" are assets and can be sold to larger clubs if they are good enough.  Germany has clubs like many of ours in America where again they join a team and pay "membership" which again sounds like fees or dues but it is a payment. 

How many European kids actually make it to a true Academy.  The rest are paying to play a game they love. 

Admittedly, I gave up after England and Germany so I can not answer for countries such as Italy or Spain or Brazil or Chile  or Russia or Nigeria or list any other country.  But cities and counties need funds to keep the grass green and clubs need qualified directors and uniforms that mimic Man City are not free so I believe pay to play is here for a bit and not just in America.  By the way Canadian Hockey is pay to play and they seem to be pretty good. 

With that said I think these countries have a better scouting network and a smaller geographical region to scout players and possibly move assets from club to club.  Yes these German kids that develop and are being developed are considered assets as they can be sold to larger clubs or receive solidarity payments down the road.   So maybe in that case changes need to be made in scouting and how these youth clubs are viewed by our governing body.  Christian Pulisic was not developed by the DA.  His youth coach deserves credit as does NIKE ID2 for identifying him at u14.  If we can funnel more money to clubs then they can invest in the coaching and training and maybe development in improves

Before you all pile on and say that I believe in pay to play, the answer is yes and no.  I wish it was less expensive as I have two playing club soccer.  I do believe my coach is a good coach who believes in the foundation of the game and is not in it just for the win.  I believe in his style and his passion and his knowledge and thus I am willing to pay coaching fees as the club does not pay for him to coach.  Do we win every game "nope", every tournament "nope" do my kids love the game "yep" and are they having fun and learning "definitely".  I day dream like all of us to see my son walkout on a stadium field and my daughter to play D1.  If if doesn't happen (and may probably won't), I can live with myself and the decisions we made around this sport .


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## Eagle33 (Oct 13, 2017)

If you all lower your expectations, for country where soccer is NOT #1 sport, we are doing pretty damn good.


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## Grace T. (Oct 13, 2017)

charlie murphy said:


> let's talk about the merit of the toe poke. yeah that's it . not that I agree with Rich but grace I think you miss the point. maybe if coaches went to more classes on the "art of the Toe poke" that would fix what is wrong with US soccer. oh yeah now we are back on topic.


The toe poke illustrates the various schools of US soccer.

The "guided self-learning people"....where we are right now....would say that the coach should almost always discourage kids from toe poking since it builds bad habits...at a minimum the coach probably should show the kids how to learn the toe poke because it's a waste of precious limited time (instead they should learn it from their parent or private trainer).

The "let 'em play people"....which have US soccer's ear right now....would say that coaches should be discouraging their kids from toe poking...instead the coach should allow players to explore and find the answers on their own.

The "skills based" people would say it's a coaches job to teach kids when to toe poke and when not to...it's probably an advanced skills which should be deferred til later but it should definitely be taught, preferably in a line against the goalkeeper.


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## Ghostwriter (Oct 13, 2017)

Change starts with the evaluation process. The last 30 years players are identified at the National level based on their athletic, size, speed, and physical play.  This is a recipe that doesn't work once the players hit their late teens and 20s.  Countless players who have tremendous soccer IQ's, touch, movement on and off the ball are loss in this process.  It starts at the club level and the American belief in athletism over everything else. We compare soccer to football or basketball players as if that somehow validates their athletism and place on a soccer pitch.   We hear that in a country of 300 million our best athletes don't play soccer, so that is why we aren't any good. In reality in a country this size it has nothing to do with any of that, it comes down to changing the mindset of those in charge of players development and evaluations. We see players all the time who are bigger and faster at 11, 12, 13, 14 that just stand next to a defender and wait for the over the top ball only to sprint after it and score or the punishing physical defender who goes hard after every ball and gets rid of it within a second or two by sending it up as far as possible. These scenarios play out at the youth levels every week and do nothing for development. The club coaches, parent's, etc yelling at a player for playing a ball back instead of forward.  Players are pigeon holed into positions at a young age based on their physical attributes not their soccer IQ'S.  This mentality has turned the US National Team into the blue collar working hard team for decades, because when your whole development and player identification is based on speed, athletism, size, and physical play all you have left in your 20s and 30s is a bunch of players that have to work hard to even compete.  Eventually you run into countries who have a greater soccer IQ, better touch, and still work hard and you get beat, dominated, or both. How many times have you heard those Americans have grit and never say die mentality? Great characteristics we all feel proud of but why can't we on top of that have players that know how to make runs without the ball, see angles and passing lanes instead of forcing everything forward, posses the ball for more than 3 or 4 passes, let the ball do a lot of the work as no one moves as fast it, or have the confidence to build out of the back and not just send it up.  You know why we have had prolific players who are known for their great headers Wambach, Lalas in the American system because that's how we play the ball in the air.  Let's find players that can accomplish moving the ball on the ground more than the air and have the soccer IQ and creativity to compete with the rest of the world.  Until we change the foundation of our evaluation process starting at the youth levels we will forever be mediocre.


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## Grace T. (Oct 13, 2017)

BigSoccer said:


> Ok.  So I decided to do a little research on youth soccer in England and Germany and guess what.  You pay to play.  The way you pay varies from club to club and there are tons of clubs in those two countries.  Some clubs in smaller towns have the "youth league" which is less expensive and then they funnel the better players to the youth club teams.  Some are in the National League or 3rd tiers.  These are smaller towns but even then there is a cost to be on that team that comes with eventual travel.   I do not know if the players on these "club teams" are assets and can be sold to larger clubs if they are good enough.  Germany has clubs like many of ours in America where again they join a team and pay "membership" which again sounds like fees or dues but it is a payment.
> 
> How many European kids actually make it to a true Academy.  The rest are paying to play a game they love.
> 
> ...


I can answer the Spain/Italy part.  It's not that dissimilar.  But at least there, the clubs you are talking about are more like AYSO clubs...the fees are much more affordable and they play up until late on very tiny micro pitches.  Most of the clubs are associated with schools or towns and aren't really "clubs" in our sense of the word...they are more like Boys and Girls Club.  And yes, you are right, there are some intermediate clubs that travel, but again the fees are no where near as ridiculous as ours because the coaches aren't professionals (they know more than our AYSO parents, though, because they played themselves when they were little and follow the sport).  The key difference is that there is very early ID and those kids that are on a pro track get sent to the escuelas, or academies.  They don't pay...they get their education (both soccer and academic) free...but it's a job for them....not fun and games, as the article posted from the Guardian shows (8 hour bus ride!).  There isn't any expectation that the kids playing for the escuelas will go to university...they are on the sports track and they treat sports with the same seriousness that someone on the academic, civil service or art track would treat their jobs.    For the ones playing for the clubs, there isn't the same expectation of their kids being soccer stars one day or on development....it's just about having fun....met a mom in Italy who was moving to Puerto Rico (hope that worked out ) to get her son a chance to play college ball in the US because he wasn't good enough to play pro and qualify for one of the academies.

The more we talk about this the more I'm beginning to think that the biggest problem in our system is that we don't have parents that play (and so are obsessed with things like tournament wins, and don't understand building the possession game).  That means we should be optimistic for when the current generation has children and begins to kick the ball with their kids in the park instead of tossing the football, but it means, regardless of what we do, it will still be a generation at least before we can challenge the first tier soccer powers.


----------



## outside! (Oct 13, 2017)

espola said:


> Whoever is responsible for the heading restrictions and buildout lines should walk the plank next.


There is no need for kids under 10 to head the ball. None. If a talented player cannot learn proper heading technique and tactics as a teenager, then they are not talented enough to play high level soccer. Besides, maybe they will learn to be better at getting the ball on the ground an controlling it. CTE is real and non-concussive blows to the head contribute to it. Those facts are not going away. Neither are the insurance companies that will raise the premiums of or refuse to insure any organization that encourages pre-teens to use their heads to deliver impacts.


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## eastbaysoccer (Oct 13, 2017)

It’s not what went wrong but what will happen next?

1) mass firings within US Soccer with a new direction and model not to include any DA system which has proven over 10 years to be a bust for the most part.  

2) perhaps the introduction of paid academy/boarding school (w a stipend for the family) for the very best players? Players will be scouted at tournaments, games , trainings.  50 players per class for a total of the USA’s best 200 players evaluated by a board.


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## Mystery Train (Oct 13, 2017)

Ghostwriter said:


> Change starts with the evaluation process. The last 30 years players are identified at the National level based on their athletic, size, speed, and physical play.  This is a recipe that doesn't work once the players hit their late teens and 20s.  Countless players who have tremendous soccer IQ's, touch, movement on and off the ball are loss in this process.  It starts at the club level and the American belief in athletism over everything else. We compare soccer to football or basketball players as if that somehow validates their athletism and place on a soccer pitch.   We hear that in a country of 300 million our best athletes don't play soccer, so that is why we aren't any good. In reality in a country this size it has nothing to do with any of that, it comes down to changing the mindset of those in charge of players development and evaluations. We see players all the time who are bigger and faster at 11, 12, 13, 14 that just stand next to a defender and wait for the over the top ball only to sprint after it and score or the punishing physical defender who goes hard after every ball and gets rid of it within a second or two by sending it up as far as possible. These scenarios play out at the youth levels every week and do nothing for development. The club coaches, parent's, etc yelling at a player for playing a ball back instead of forward.  Players are pigeon holed into positions at a young age based on their physical attributes not their soccer IQ'S.  This mentality has turned the US National Team into the blue collar working hard team for decades, because when your whole development and player identification is based on speed, athletism, size, and physical play all you have left in your 20s and 30s is a bunch of players that have to work hard to even compete.  Eventually you run into countries who have a greater soccer IQ, better touch, and still work hard and you get beat, dominated, or both. How many times have you heard those Americans have grit and never say die mentality? Great characteristics we all feel proud of but why can't we on top of that have players that know how to make runs without the ball, see angles and passing lanes instead of forcing everything forward, posses the ball for more than 3 or 4 passes, let the ball do a lot of the work as no one moves as fast it, or have the confidence to build out of the back and not just send it up.  You know why we have had prolific players who are known for their great headers Wambach, Lalas in the American system because that's how we play the ball in the air.  Let's find players that can accomplish moving the ball on the ground more than the air and have the soccer IQ and creativity to compete with the rest of the world.  Until we change the foundation of our evaluation process starting at the youth levels we will forever be mediocre.


This ^^^^ is spot on.  

I'll also add that 1) There isn't enough accountability within our culture when it comes to soccer because we don't care enough . . . yet.   Not that I'm advocating for the kind of insanity that comes with small, developing countries and their passion for soccer, but I know there are countries where if you were a player on a team that lost out on WC qualifying with that type of play, you wouldn't be able to show your face on the streets for months.  The players and coaches and ESPECIALLY the USSF simply don't have that kind of pressure and accountability here.  Except for small pockets of passion like this forum, the culture at large here really doesn't much care that we missed out on the WC.  The USSF needs a napalm cleansing from top to bottom, but it would take massive outside pressure to generate such a thing.  And 2) the overwhelming majority of participants in our youth soccer "system" are aiming for college soccer, not professional play.  So the system is set up around finding and developing kids who, _as 14 year old HS freshmen, _are recruit-able for college coaches and who will hit the height of their soccer achievement as 20 year olds.  And because early blooming athletic specimens will almost always dominate games played by teenagers that's the type of player our NT ends up with.  That's not how professional international clubs look for and develop talent because they have a much longer term view.  Our system seeks early bloomers with size and speed for the college game and such a purpose attracts mostly middle-class families who are aiming for college in the first place.   I'm sure Altidore and Gonzalez were absolute beasts on the youth soccer circuit as 14 year olds.   But guess what, we'll never develop a cohesive national team capable of competing at the highest levels without a legitimate pathway for players with aspirations of playing beyond the age of 21 and a system of coaching and development that isn't myopically focused on such a short window of time in a player's life.


----------



## coachrefparent (Oct 13, 2017)

El Clasico said:


> Absolutely nothing will change. Mark my words.
> Everyone is bitching and complaining about the US not making the WC but for there to be real change, it would require a complete top to bottom evaluation and changes....and that is not going to happen.
> Everybody is too comfortable
> MLS is making decent enough money
> ...


I wonder how the rest of the world dominates without all the hispanic true ballers on roster?


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> The toe poke illustrates the various schools of US soccer.
> 
> The "guided self-learning people"....where we are right now....would say that the coach should almost always discourage kids from toe poking since it builds bad habits...at a minimum the coach probably should show the kids how to learn the toe poke because it's a waste of precious limited time (instead they should learn it from their parent or private trainer).
> 
> ...


They don't have to be good at it the first day, but they should be made aware it is an option, along with inside of the foot, outside, laces, heel and sole.


----------



## DBSoccerFan (Oct 13, 2017)

Ghostwriter said:


> Change starts with the evaluation process. The last 30 years players are identified at the National level based on their athletic, size, speed, and physical play.  This is a recipe that doesn't work once the players hit their late teens and 20s.  Countless players who have tremendous soccer IQ's, touch, movement on and off the ball are loss in this process.  It starts at the club level and the American belief in athletism over everything else. We compare soccer to football or basketball players as if that somehow validates their athletism and place on a soccer pitch.   We hear that in a country of 300 million our best athletes don't play soccer, so that is why we aren't any good. In reality in a country this size it has nothing to do with any of that, it comes down to changing the mindset of those in charge of players development and evaluations. We see players all the time who are bigger and faster at 11, 12, 13, 14 that just stand next to a defender and wait for the over the top ball only to sprint after it and score or the punishing physical defender who goes hard after every ball and gets rid of it within a second or two by sending it up as far as possible. These scenarios play out at the youth levels every week and do nothing for development. The club coaches, parent's, etc yelling at a player for playing a ball back instead of forward.  Players are pigeon holed into positions at a young age based on their physical attributes not their soccer IQ'S.  This mentality has turned the US National Team into the blue collar working hard team for decades, because when your whole development and player identification is based on speed, athletism, size, and physical play all you have left in your 20s and 30s is a bunch of players that have to work hard to even compete.  Eventually you run into countries who have a greater soccer IQ, better touch, and still work hard and you get beat, dominated, or both. How many times have you heard those Americans have grit and never say die mentality? Great characteristics we all feel proud of but why can't we on top of that have players that know how to make runs without the ball, see angles and passing lanes instead of forcing everything forward, posses the ball for more than 3 or 4 passes, let the ball do a lot of the work as no one moves as fast it, or have the confidence to build out of the back and not just send it up.  You know why we have had prolific players who are known for their great headers Wambach, Lalas in the American system because that's how we play the ball in the air.  Let's find players that can accomplish moving the ball on the ground more than the air and have the soccer IQ and creativity to compete with the rest of the world.  Until we change the foundation of our evaluation process starting at the youth levels we will forever be mediocre.


Ghost - I couldn't agree more and you are rocking on your insight.  I am judging and seeing things as a parent of youth player and playing on the women's side.  I see the women's side going in the direction you mention the men's program is devoid of.  I don't know how delineated USSF is on the men's and women's side when it comes to governing bodies, long range planning or development.  I believe the women's side is on the right track with their evaluation process.  Vision and implementation by its nature is a work in progress and time is needed to see if the processes are on track.  We can't base it on one tournament or game, but over a long period of time.  I see it on the U14 (women's) level with the current selection of the youth pool.  Personally watching two of the selectees on a daily basis and the the team around them would confirm my belief that the U.S. Women's vision and development program are on point and the men's side should look hard at consolidating that vision.  I say this also by seeing my daughter benefit from her success in your former thoughts of only being athletic, strong and fast versus your latter evaluation fixes.  She now needs to quickly and diligently adapt to this latter evaluation process to be successful going forward.  From a husband's perspective, women once again have it right, unless MAP tells me I'm all jacked up ....


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## watfly (Oct 13, 2017)

El Clasico said:


> Absolutely nothing will change. Mark my words.
> Everyone is bitching and complaining about the US not making the WC but for there to be real change, it would require a complete top to bottom evaluation and changes....and that is not going to happen.
> Everybody is too comfortable
> MLS is making decent enough money
> ...


Your opinion may be unpopular, but unfortunately you may end up being right.  I think this fits in with Mystery Train's narrative regarding accountability, and lack thereof.  I get the impression that US Soccer is more concerned about protecting the MLS than they are about developing the USMNT (for example, training and solidiarity payments).

I've kind of scoffed at the concept that US club soccer is mostly for upper middle class kids.  However, upon reflection there is some truth to that.  My son has been playing Flight 1 soccer for 4 years with two different clubs and the families are predominately upper middle class.  I see this in a lot of SD and OC clubs although it doesn't seem as prevalent in LA.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Oct 13, 2017)

watfly said:


> Your opinion may be unpopular, but unfortunately you may end up being right.  I think this fits in with Mystery Train's narrative regarding accountability, and lack thereof.  I get the impression that US Soccer is more concerned about protecting the MLS than they are about developing the USMNT (for example, training and solidiarity payments).
> 
> I've kind of scoffed at the concept that US club soccer is mostly for upper middle class kids.  However, upon reflection there is some truth to that.  My son has been playing Flight 1 soccer for 4 years with two different clubs and the families are predominately upper middle class.  I see this in a lot of SD and OC clubs although it doesn't seem as prevalent in LA.


I hate to say it too but it is a country club sport on the girls side at the higher levels.  Which is really weird because that is the opposite of how soccer is viewed worldwide as in most countries it is the game of the masses.  Leave it to the USA to turn something inexpensive, beautiful and simple into something complicated, ugly and expensive.


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## bruinblue14 (Oct 13, 2017)

^^^ I really hope you're right. Watched one of NWSL semifinal games last weekend (Courage vs Red Stars) both of which have several USWNT players and it was kind of awful to watch. No more than 3 passes connected. So many passes to no where and no one. So much panic on the ball. It just seemed like they didn't know how to play any way other than just run run run as fast as you can. The lack of intelligent play was difficult to watch.


----------



## timbuck (Oct 13, 2017)

I think we need to have an "Open Tryout" across the country. 
Surely we can find 1 player out there who can play the 6. Another that can play the 2 or 3. Shore up those 3 positions and we are making a visit to Putin this summer.

Criteria to tryout:
1. US Citizenship
2. Age 18-27
3. Weigh less than 230 pounds
4. Must have worn soccer cleats and shin guards during a soccer game in the past 10 months.
5. No felony record.

That is all. I see some Sunday league guys that are pretty impressive, but over-the-hill. Surely there are some youngster out there that can play at a high level.

US Soccer could even fund it by making it a reality show.

I think I said it on here before, I bet there are 15 guys in So Cal, that would give the team that played on Tuesday night a run for their money.


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 13, 2017)

watfly said:


> Your opinion may be unpopular, but unfortunately you may end up being right.  I think this fits in with Mystery Train's narrative regarding accountability, and lack thereof.  I get the impression that US Soccer is more concerned about protecting the MLS than they are about developing the USMNT (for example, training and solidiarity payments).
> 
> I've kind of scoffed at the concept that US club soccer is mostly for upper middle class kids.  However, upon reflection there is some truth to that.  My son has been playing Flight 1 soccer for 4 years with two different clubs and the families are predominately upper middle class.  I see this in a lot of SD and OC clubs although it doesn't seem as prevalent in LA.


The MLS can keep going on the very players from Trinidad that whipped the US.  Meanwhile, how many of those country club kids do you think are going to give up their safe 4 years of college and scholarships for a $65000 salary as a defender in the MLS?  Pulisic said thanks but no thanks and went overseas.  It also fits into the Europe narrative....in Europe not everyone goes to college....it's why so many middle class parents send their kids here (because they couldn't get in over there and get their free education)....so in Europe if you are good at athletics, but not so good at books, early on you begin to look for other opportunities.


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 13, 2017)

DBSoccerFan said:


> Ghost - I couldn't agree more and you are rocking on your insight.  I am judging and seeing things as a parent of youth player and playing on the women's side.  I see the women's side going in the direction you mention the men's program is devoid of.  I don't know how delineated USSF is on the men's and women's side when it comes to governing bodies, long range planning or development.  I believe the women's side is on the right track with their evaluation process.  Vision and implementation by its nature is a work in progress and time is needed to see if the processes are on track.  We can't base it on one tournament or game, but over a long period of time.  I see it on the U14 (women's) level with the current selection of the youth pool.  Personally watching two of the selectees on a daily basis and the the team around them would confirm my belief that the U.S. Women's vision and development program are on point and the men's side should look hard at consolidating that vision.  I say this also by seeing my daughter benefit from her success in your former thoughts of only being athletic, strong and fast versus your latter evaluation fixes.  She now needs to quickly and diligently adapt to this latter evaluation process to be successful going forward.  From a husband's perspective, women once again have it right, unless MAP tells me I'm all jacked up ....


I think that technical ability is king and then athletic ability. Obviously the best of the best have both.  I can tell you that the best player on my player's team is only 5'4 and not an imposing physical specimen but she is the best player in the world under the age of 24 and it is because of her technical ability and her genius level soccer IQ.

Focus on the technical skills when young, when in middle school, when in high school.  Someday US soccer will catch up....


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## bruinblue14 (Oct 13, 2017)

bruinblue14 said:


> ^^^ I really hope you're right. Watched one of NWSL semifinal games last weekend (Courage vs Red Stars) both of which have several USWNT players and it was kind of awful to watch. No more than 3 passes connected. So many passes to no where and no one. So much panic on the ball. It just seemed like they didn't know how to play any way other than just run run run as fast as you can. The lack of intelligent play was difficult to watch.


 Oops, was referring to DB's post above


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 13, 2017)

timbuck said:


> I think we need to have an "Open Tryout" across the country.
> Surely we can find 1 player out there who can play the 6. Another that can play the 2 or 3. Shore up those 3 positions and we are making a visit to Putin this summer.
> 
> Criteria to tryout:
> ...


@timbuck since you are a coach I am going to assume you were either joking or just forgot.  We already have our future #6 but for him to have helped us this year (which he could have) Michael Bradley would have to move or sit.  If you don't recognize this name now you will shortly.  Wes McKennie

https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/09/19/weston-mckennie-schalke-usa-fc-dallas

Oh and Haji Wright and Nick Tatigue are future senior MNT players too.  The future is full of talented Americans, we just need to get the old guard out, get an excellent South American coach and get rid of Sunil Gulati...


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 13, 2017)

Bruce Arena did the respectable and accountable thing and resigned.  Sad because he could have brought in some youth and gone for it!

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/weston-mckennie-backs-bruce-arenas-decision-not-to-call-him/1qucxsz5ebdid1049qesejn86h

https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/usmnt-americans-abroad/2017/9/27/16375276/schalke-weston-mckennie-contract-extension-usa-usmnt-usynt-bundesliga


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 13, 2017)

If you have seen him play you will think that he is the real deal.  Better than Bradley right now...  

Watch the video.  It is worth it.


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## Eagle33 (Oct 13, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> If you have seen him play you will think that he is the real deal.  Better than Bradley right now...
> 
> Watch the video.  It is worth it.


Wait, DA produced few players that CAN play on International level? How is it possible?


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## Mystery Train (Oct 13, 2017)

timbuck said:


> 3. Weigh less than 230 pounds


LOL

I don't know if Jozy Altidore would have made the cut, then.  Dude looks like a mike linebacker right now.  A big, yoked up striker don't mean much if the team can't possess the freakin ball or close down the opposing forwards...


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## timbuck (Oct 13, 2017)

Mystery Train said:


> LOL
> 
> I don't know if Jozy Altidore would have made the cut, then.  Dude looks like a mike linebacker right now.  A big, yoked up striker don't mean much if the team can't possess the freakin ball or close down the opposing forwards...


He's only listed as 6', 175. 
Either that's wrong or we underestimate just how little some soccer players really are.


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## Mystery Train (Oct 13, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Bruce Arena did the respectable and accountable thing and resigned.  Sad because he could have brought in some youth and gone for it!
> 
> http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/weston-mckennie-backs-bruce-arenas-decision-not-to-call-him/1qucxsz5ebdid1049qesejn86h
> 
> https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/usmnt-americans-abroad/2017/9/27/16375276/schalke-weston-mckennie-contract-extension-usa-usmnt-usynt-bundesliga


My god, some of those through balls and long passes were perfectly weighted....like watching Tiger Woods long putt the 16th hole in the '05 Masters...that kid is dropping dimes.


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 13, 2017)

Eagle33 said:


> Wait, DA produced few players that CAN play on International level? How is it possible?


He played in Germany for a club team for a few years and joined FC Dallas as a U14.


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 13, 2017)

Mystery Train said:


> LOL
> 
> I don't know if Jozy Altidore would have made the cut, then.  Dude looks like a mike linebacker right now.  A big, yoked up striker don't mean much if the team can't possess the freakin ball or close down the opposing forwards...


Tell me you wouldn't take Romelu Lukaku who is 6'3 215...


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 13, 2017)

timbuck said:


> He's only listed as 6', 175.
> Either that's wrong or we underestimate just how little some soccer players really are.


Wes McKennie is bigger than that right now!  He is 6'1 175-180.


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 13, 2017)

Mystery Train said:


> My god, some of those through balls and long passes were perfectly weighted....like watching Tiger Woods long putt the 16th hole in the '05 Masters...that kid is dropping dimes.


For an American player to start for a top quarter of the table Bundesliga side at 19 he has to be SPECIAL.  Sort of like for a non-American raised/educated player to start as a rookie in the NBA.


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## timbuck (Oct 13, 2017)

Mystery Train said:


> My god, some of those through balls and long passes were perfectly weighted....like watching Tiger Woods long putt the 16th hole in the '05 Masters...that kid is dropping dimes.


Yeah, but he doesn't score many goals and doesn't seem to have "big kicks".  He'd never make it in American soccer. (sarcasm)


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## MakeAPlay (Oct 13, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Yeah, but he doesn't score many goals and doesn't seem to have "big kicks".  He'd never make it in American soccer. (sarcasm)


Have him, Pulisic and Zelalem in the midfield would be lethal!!!


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## Mystery Train (Oct 13, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Tell me you wouldn't take Romelu Lukaku who is 6'3 215...


Every day of the week, I would (and I'm actually a big Altidore fan)... But see my 2nd point.  Without players to get him the ball, even Lukau's athleticism would be wasted.


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## Mystery Train (Oct 13, 2017)

timbuck said:


> He's only listed as 6', 175.
> Either that's wrong or we underestimate just how little some soccer players really are.





MakeAPlay said:


> Wes McKennie is bigger than that right now!  He is 6'1 175-180.


LOL, Altidore is bigger than that too.  That ain't 175.  The brother may not be linebacker size, but like Bill Parcells said of Roy Williams, he's "one biscuit shy of it."


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## f1nfutbol fan (Oct 13, 2017)

my rant....

it was great that BA resigned, now the rest of marrionetist's need to leave the top side of us soccer.

not sure who should take control of the ship, but I would like to have landon donavan in the cabin helping direct things. we need people in place who can stay with the project for 12-16 years, to see things to fruition.

in my eye's, us doesnt possess a "style".... let alone the ability to consistently connect a pass to their teammate. some will say, yeah - long ball-mls, thug ball, etc. when you have players that cant string several passes together or the players are thinking his teammate is going to thump the ball up the field & turns away, when a ball is actually passed to him, it's a joke, there is pure confusion out on the field. 

I was embarrassed for the us before the TnT game, when the usmnt were being carried onto the field looking like a bunch of pansies. so sad. not to mention the lack of pride or respect to be playing for the national team, let alone personal pride. Before the 1st TnT goal, i was thinking to myself, i hope us looses, their display of effort, they dont deserve to move forward.

a buddy of mine has 2 kids that went to a us national camp a while back, u14 & u18, practiced @ the same location. after the 1st day he asked his kids what they both worked on u14 was building out the back, while u18 was instructed to get the ball in the attacking 3rd within 3 touches. So here you have a us nat team training camp with numerous age groups & they are all teaching different philosophies...wtf. same thing happened the next few days....sad.

BA is just the tip of the iceberg, we need to clean house & establish / identify a style & stick to it.

Plan your work, then work your plan. keep it simple.


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## Kicknit22 (Oct 13, 2017)

bruinblue14 said:


> ^^^ I really hope you're right. Watched one of NWSL semifinal games last weekend (Courage vs Red Stars) both of which have several USWNT players and it was kind of awful to watch. No more than 3 passes connected. So many passes to no where and no one. So much panic on the ball. It just seemed like they didn't know how to play any way other than just run run run as fast as you can. The lack of intelligent play was difficult to watch.


Lack of intelligent play is always hard to watch.


----------



## BarcaLover (Oct 13, 2017)

I know it wouldn't happen in a million years because USSF frowns on him, but I would love to see what Brian Kleiban could do as manager of the USMNT.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Oct 14, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Great article.  "they are pretty good at development too".   Well, that's the point.  The Spanish have a long tradition of playing it at the feet and building.  The Americans have a long tradition of trying to use their athleticism in direct soccer as opposed to finesse.    There are two ways to go at this.  One is to say run-and-sock 'em soccer is o.k....it's just our American style...s the rondos and the passing game.....s the rest of the thinking soccer is a negative game about mistake avoidance instead of making the score....let's develop our own American style based on who we are and what works and stop trying to imitate others.
> The other is to say that the possession game really matters and we should try to develop it...but it takes time to develop that game and teams that try to do it are going to lose against teams that play the direct style...since we have a play to pay system, and coaches are only judged on wins/loses (there really is no other official stick parents have to judge them, in fairness to the parents), the emphasis on winning and losing hurts the development of the possession game, especially early on.  U.S. Soccer, rightly or wrongly, has made the decision learning the possession game is important, and its recommendations are to deemphasize winning as a result until age 12, but they lacked the courage of their convictions to make that mandatory, which meant nothing changed.  It's like the old saying, you can have it fast, good or cheap...pick two.  You can have it competitive, possession-oriented or professional, pick 2, under the current pay to play system.
> 
> Note Spain doesn't have the same pay to play system.  They select kids from a very early age.  What jumped out at me most about the article was 8 hour bus trip.  It's a job to these kids.  It's their future, so of course they are invested in it.  Video review and then laps before training even begins?  Well they don't say but you can imagine how much time they are practicing.


Thanks for sharing this article.  IMO, here in the US the teaching of "Winning doesn't matter" is much bigger than soccer and is a lifestyle we are teaching our kids that permeates throughout all facets of life and is what "They" have told us needs to be done.  We are paying for that everywhere.   I worked for a Big 4 Accounting Firm (that hires the best and the brightest requiring a 3.5 GPA or above...I however snuck in) and last year they did away with the ranking system by group where a 22 year old professional would be ranked against their peers and annual raises would be given based on that ranking (i.e. highest ranking received highest raise.)  That practice had been done for decades.  They learned that THIS GENERATION IS NOT MOTIVATED BY COMPETITION and that the ranking system did more harm than good and these professionals expected reward after 3 months of work.  The studies have shown that these kids are not brought up to think for themselves, plan, or even do things for themselves.  I just dropped my daughter off at sophomore registration a couple of months ago and she told me she was one of the only ones that didn't have a parent at the registration.  Is she not capable of following the signs and asking questions?  In the US we aren't teaching our kids to believe in their own ability, to take risks, and their own decision making in all facets of life so I believe that plays a role in how our soccer players play the game too.  Our kids here in the US also have every technology known to man.  When my daughter is grounded from technology she asks me to practice with her (she is a Keeper so she needs someone) or just this last weekend she asked me to go watch Socal Blues play San Diego Surf at her age level.  She would have NEVER done that if she wasn't grounded.  I think the fact that we are a society of mother hovers that don't teach our kids to be individuals that think and do for themselves taking appropriate risks also plays a role in how our players are developed as a nation.  They are taught "Winning doesn't matter" but at some point it does.   My daughter asked me about playoffs and I told her that for her age there isn't going to be playoffs because "They" believe winning doesn't matter for her age.  She then said; "Yeah it does!  Why am I doing this if it doesn't matter?!".  LOL


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## Slow Jamin (Oct 14, 2017)

It is pathetic that Sunil refuses to resign while USSF hasn't shown him the door yet and/or reassigned his role.  Bruce eventually did the right thing.  It shouldn't take this long..

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/sports/soccer/bruce-arena-us-soccer-sunil-gulati.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-1&action=click&contentCollection=Soccer&region=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article


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## Slow Jamin (Oct 14, 2017)

This was orginally posted on Soccerparrenting's Facebook page.. Great points about corruption in MLS and how it affects the USMNT:
The problem runs very deep. The solution is difficult if not impossible. Why? Money. It is a common parental refrain to spout "pay for play is a problem". Surely it is. But, why is it? You need to step back and look at the USA's playing field. Please bear with me, because this takes a bit of explanation.

We need to clean up the corruption and lack of transparency at the highest levels of US Soccer. Have you heard of Soccer United Marketing (SUM)? SUM is a a for-profit entity and is referred to as "the marketing arm of Major League Soccer". However, SUM is also in charge of selling sponsorship and TV rights on behalf of not-for-profit US Soccer (USSF) and marketing the Mexican National Team games played in the US.

SUM is completely intertwined with MLS. Don Garber, commissioner of MLS, is also CEO of SUM. SUM and MLS share offices. SUM's web address is http://www.sumworld.com- see where it leads! Ownership of MLS teams also have a stake in SUM.

Sunil Gulati, president of USSF, has been (and could still be) on the board of SUM. Don Garber, CEO of SUM, is head of the professional council of USSF's board of directors. USSF sanctions MLS. This literally means Don Garber REGULATES HIS OWN LEAGUE and has an external profit motive for SUM and its investors.

SUM sold the last TV deal for MLS packaged with US Soccer matches (men AND women's teams), so channels couldn't buy one without the other. SUM sells the rights to US Soccer sponsorship and TV, taking a cut for itself before it sends payment to US Soccer. This was investigated in 2016 by Congress.

SUM's company slogan is "One sport. One company." American soccer fans should IMMEDIATELY recognize the similarity to USSF's slogan: "One nation. One team".

SUM was valued this year at $2 billion by Forbes magazine.

There is a multi-billion dollar company woven through American soccer that we know next to nothing about - they effectively don't have a website. They have contracts with US Soccer that we have barely any details on and they are filtering revenues from our men and women's national teams and clubs soccer into billionaires' pockets.

So, with all of that background, let's look at the structure of club soccer in the US. How has MLS, a single entity closed league with franchises for teams, been given complete control which teams are allowed to join the highest tier of American soccer? In MLS markets, the MLS clubs have taken over academy systems and filter tons of dollars back to the MLS club. They have tons of teams. Many of them are not good, but they hoodwink parents into paying big money to say their kid plays in the MLS Club's academy. 

Then, MLS cries poor when it comes to paying players and that it can't have open competition and independent clubs and that it can't pay youth clubs training and solidarity payments when they develop players that become professional. Because the end result is MLS Clubs (and other high profile DA's) taking money from parents and filling as many teams as they can, there is little motivation to actually develop players. If the clubs were PAID when an MLS team or a foreign team took the player, the youth club team would have a MUCH STRONGER MOTIVATION to produce players with the actual potential to play professionally. 

Worse yet, the USSF is starting to invest in 2003 and 2004 birth year kids right now (7th and 8th graders). In two or three years, when they are putting together their national U17 team, they will look to those kids who they put money into. There's no way for an undiscovered gem who breaks out in high school to ever get USSF to take notice of them. There's been a ton of crying in the wake of this loss that the US talent pool is too small. Bull-spit! The pool is just fine. The problem is that after all of the sunk costs, USSF is not out there scouring the "streets" for the best players. They are coddling the players whose parents have shelled out thousands to the DA's, MLS Academies, and ODP programs. This all goes back to the fact that SUM is making MILLIONS that could go to players in the MLS and could go to payments to clubs for producing those players. Instead, SUM makes big money and passes along smaller money to the USSF to pay to the USMNT and USWNT. It is a horrible state of affairs. (Some of the info above was gleaned from newspaper articles and from a statement made by one of the AO chapter presidents)


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## MarkM (Oct 14, 2017)

Eagle33 said:


> Wait, DA produced few players that CAN play on International level? How is it possible?


McKennie and Pulisic both made the first team in the Bundesliga after only a year with their clubs.  Very impressive results.  Schalke has a number of top Americans.  A ton of talent is being pulled from the DA teams into Germany.  Unless our pro league changes, we won't be able to keep kids in the US once they grow beyond the talent of our DA system.


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## younothat (Oct 14, 2017)

The US Men's National Team and the FC Dallas Academy Problem
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/soccer/soccer/2017/10/12/us-mens-national-team-fc-dallas-academy-problem

You may have asked, "what exactly is pay-for-play and why is it bad for the USMNT?"

"Let's look at FC Dallas for example. They currently have about 5000 kids in the FC Dallas Youth system, both boys and girls. According to people we've talked to, on a rough average they each pay $3000 per year for the club fee (again before kit and travel expenses). That's $15 million in revenue for FC Dallas.

Now there are a lot of expenses and overhead FCD is paying, but a lot of those are sunk costs FCD (and Frisco?) paid up front. Sunk costs like building the complex at the stadium. Make no mistake FC Dallas is making a profit off their youth club.  Since the senior club breaks even at best, and probably losses money some years, the youth profit is potentially FCD's only profit.

Soccer in the US is a roughly $4 billion industry but most of the profit, outside of the gear and equipment companies, is in the massive clubs. There is a lot of money at stake and they won't want to give it up

Why is Pay-For-Play a problem for the US Men's National Team?

The problem as it relates to the National Team is that pay-for-play creates a barrier to entry for kids. Effectively, only kids whose families can afford it can play soccer. Particularly high level elite soccer which is even more expensive. You can easily see how this limits the pool of players to only kids with money"

The second problem the pay-for-play system creates is the emphasis it places on volume. If clubs revenue is tied to player fees then profit is based on the number of players the club has. The more players, the more volume, and the more profit.

Instead of putting efforts into creating the best players and teams, a.k.a _quality_, the incentive for clubs is to add as many teams and players as possible with no regard for the quality of said teams and players, a.k.a _quantity_.

You can see this in FC Dallas' 5000 kids on teams stretching from Arkansas to El Paso.

The FCD Academy is free-to-play as the academy teams are subsidized and paid for by all the youth team fees. FCD needs pay-for-play for the FCD Academy teams to exist and function. The youth clubs prop up the whole FCD system.

_Side note: Most academy teams aren't free, not even all the MLS academy teams are free._

The actual problem for FCD isn't that how pay-for-play works, it's that pay-for-play is the system we have rather than one that compensates the club if a player moves to a professional team. 

The solution then?

Look, I'm certainly no youth soccer expert. But it seems quite clear to me. Having incentive from profit to be based on _quality_ and not _quantity _seems like a good idea.


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## genesis (Oct 14, 2017)

Oh please


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## USC (Oct 15, 2017)

BarcaLover said:


> I know it wouldn't happen in a million years because USSF frowns on him, but I would love to see what Brian Kleiban could do as manager of the USMNT.


How are his team/s doing?  What are group is he with now?


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## jose (Oct 16, 2017)

Hired Gun said:


> Sad day in US Soccer.  Many fingers have been pointed to why.
> 1. Coaching in general - from US National to youth soccer
> 2. Youth Soccer Structure
> 3. Best US athletes playing other sports
> ...


My take:
kids are placed in a box. They are coached and told what to do from the second they lace up their cleats. There is no creativity. Brazilian kids are dirt poor so its not the money. You can throw all the money you want at it. But if they aren't in the back yard or on the streets PLAYING on their own we will be a one oared boat. Think about it when you are playing as a kid and want to do a bicycle kick while playing with your friends nobody is there to tell you to stop screwing off. If you do that at organized soccer practice the coach will be up your ass because you are wasting time.  But you are out there with your friends and you suck at it but keep trying it until you figure it out. 
Players have to have heart. Stop trying to play someone else style make it the american way. We don't dive, we don't stay on the ground, We aren't intimidated by anyone. We get in their faces and intimidate them. We grind and outwork everyone on every play.


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## jose (Oct 16, 2017)

El Clasico said:


> Absolutely nothing will change. Mark my words.
> Everyone is bitching and complaining about the US not making the WC but for there to be real change, it would require a complete top to bottom evaluation and changes....and that is not going to happen.
> Everybody is too comfortable
> MLS is making decent enough money
> ...


you had me until you went racist


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## Azzurri (Oct 16, 2017)

*Is compensation from pros to U.S. youth clubs on the horizon? Attorney Lance Reich provides an update on the quest*


https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/75310/is-compensation-from-pros-to-us-youth-clubs-on-t.html


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## JJP (Oct 17, 2017)

jose said:


> My take:
> kids are placed in a box. They are coached and told what to do from the second they lace up their cleats. There is no creativity. Brazilian kids are dirt poor so its not the money. You can throw all the money you want at it. But if they aren't in the back yard or on the streets PLAYING on their own we will be a one oared boat. Think about it when you are playing as a kid and want to do a bicycle kick while playing with your friends nobody is there to tell you to stop screwing off. If you do that at organized soccer practice the coach will be up your ass because you are wasting time.  But you are out there with your friends and you suck at it but keep trying it until you figure it out.
> Players have to have heart. Stop trying to play someone else style make it the american way. We don't dive, we don't stay on the ground, We aren't intimidated by anyone. We get in their faces and intimidate them. We grind and outwork everyone on every play.


Agree completely.  It's the work you do on your own that makes a great player.  A kid who plays pickup for all his free time after school is the kid who develops love for the game and will do the extra wall ball, cone drills, fast footwork Coerver drills, juggle, practice shooting and free kicks on his own.  People expecting academies and coaches to build great players from the ground up are asking too much, and it's not what is happening in the rest of the world.  The level of talent entering academies is already high and was self developed or trained by a dad who knew what he was doing.  There are so many ex-pro or semipro players all over Europe and S. America that talent gets developed before the boys even enter academy.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 17, 2017)

jose said:


> you had me until you went racist


I agree he went the wrong route, but I have seen comments on here that would reflect a country club atmosphere by some - especially when it comes to players who are on scholarship or aid. 

Great discussion a year ago here:
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/george-quraishi/howler-radio/e/46501530 

I recommend this one as well:
https://www.totalsoccershow.com/total-soccer-show-podcasts/

Due to the failure of the USMNT of late, the topics have been brought up. Cant get rid of pay-to-play, but can try to make sure it is more affordable. Can also get USSF to weed out the insurance salesmen and  lawyers making clubs for profit. Need to certify and verify clubs to make sure they arent ATMS


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 17, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> This was orginally posted on Soccerparrenting's Facebook page.. Great points about corruption in MLS and how it affects the USMNT:
> The problem runs very deep. The solution is difficult if not impossible. Why? Money. It is a common parental refrain to spout "pay for play is a problem". Surely it is. But, why is it? You need to step back and look at the USA's playing field. Please bear with me, because this takes a bit of explanation.
> 
> We need to clean up the corruption and lack of transparency at the highest levels of US Soccer. Have you heard of Soccer United Marketing (SUM)? SUM is a a for-profit entity and is referred to as "the marketing arm of Major League Soccer". However, SUM is also in charge of selling sponsorship and TV rights on behalf of not-for-profit US Soccer (USSF) and marketing the Mexican National Team games played in the US.
> ...


Not new that MLS is about making money. Their ideals dont align with making US Soccer better. Academies are a joke, very limited and only in place to get ROI in 3-4 years. If an idea doesnt make MLS money, not interested. They are content with the model. Would take someone outside the circle to make changes. There's a reason US Soccer and MLS dont extend calls to certain ex players and coaches - well the ones who they know will voice their own opinions. Gulati will be in charge again, just due to the fact he is directly connected to the US Bid for the World Cup. Just have to hope voices like Taylor Twellman and Eric Wynalda (yeah go figure) will be loud enough to make SOME change.


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## Azzurri (Oct 17, 2017)

*Claudio Reyna: Culture of Arrogance in American Soccer*

*http://www.empireofsoccer.com/claudio-reyna-culture-of-arrogance-within-american-soccer-66217/*


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## younothat (Oct 18, 2017)

In light of U.S. Men’s National Team’s monumental World Cup qualifying failure, the United Premier Soccer League (UPSL) wants to join the overwhelming call for change in leadership at U.S. Soccer, and an independent review of resources and systems that have affected all levels of the game in this great soccer nation.
http://goalnation.com/httpgoalnation-comupsl-takes-stand-amidst-turmoil-in-american-soccer/

"The NASL, USL, UPSL, NPSL, PDL, USASA Elite & NISA should unite all across America, united by a proper Promotion/Relegation model.

The UPSL vigorously contends that U.S. Soccer needs to enact a new player registration system allowing pro, amateur and youth clubs the opportunity to own respective player passes as a vehicle to generate income via player transfers. This will grow clubs, stimulate investment, and produce better talent for the U.S. National teams, which ultimately gives the U.S. better results on the international stage.

Currently, no amateur clubs or youth teams in the U.S. control or own their own player passes versus the system in place worldwide that is producing tremendous talent and financial results for international clubs and countries both big and small"

"The UPSL wants to be clear and direct that the U.S. Soccer structure needs new leadership willing to make hard decisions now, and initiate a new player registration system that allows clubs to own their own player passes while at the same time initiating a consolidated Pro/Rel system in the lower Pro Development tiers"


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 18, 2017)

Azzurri said:


> *Claudio Reyna: Culture of Arrogance in American Soccer*
> 
> *http://www.empireofsoccer.com/claudio-reyna-culture-of-arrogance-within-american-soccer-66217/*


Can you imagine Claudio Reyna coming in to talk to kids or do some training and coaches ignoring his input? I guess I can because Ive seen coaches do it all the time to real knowledgeable coaches. Worse when other coaches dont even know who they are talking to  (people dont go around with resumes on their shirts) or figure the guy next to them doesnt know as much as they do. How can anyone know more than them - all two or three licenses worth of knowledge and little playing experience. Ive even seen this attitude down to AYSO soccer dad with parents.  Many Latino parents, who have club experience in their countries, often get asked/told not to teach their kids certain things or ask them "do you know about soccer? do you have a coaching license?".  had a soccer mom come to a parent tryout meeting and tell the coaches "im licensed, so I can help run training if needed". Some of it is innocent ignorance, like the soccer mom, but some is just plain arrogance as Reyna said. Some of it at its worst is racist - how can Juanito's dad driving the beat up Honda know more than me? Some of this has been talked about on a few podcasts I previously posted.


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## mirage (Oct 18, 2017)

*Landon Donovan Mulling Run for U.S. Soccer President*

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2739449-landon-donovan-reportedly-considering-running-for-us-soccer-president

"The nominations for U.S. Soccer presidential candidates are due on Dec. 12, and SI.com has learned that Landon Donovan is seriously considering running for U.S. Soccer president.

Donovan, who had no comment, has been asked by a number of respected figures in American soccer to contemplate running. They’re concerned about Sunil Gulati continuing to control decisions on the technical side—including hiring head coaches—and think Donovan is better qualified to handle the soccer aspects of the job.

If Donovan were to run, it would be a game-changer in the campaign to become the elected leader of U.S. Soccer.

Donovan, one of the most decorated players in the country's history, holds a share of the U.S. men's all-time scoring record with Clint Dempsey (57) and is the USA's all-time men's assist leader with 58."


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## jose (Oct 18, 2017)

Not_that_Serious said:


> I agree he went the wrong route, but I have seen comments on here that would reflect a country club atmosphere by some - especially when it comes to players who are on scholarship or aid.
> 
> Great discussion a year ago here:
> https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/george-quraishi/howler-radio/e/46501530
> ...


Pay to play is a popular buzz word.  Nothing is free. In fact baseball/softball are the cheapest club teams then soccer. volleyball hockey, LAX basketball are all ridiculous amounts of money. Even  AYSO cost a small fee but parents are lining fields and playing referee. Club is expensive but the reality the coaches don't make squat even at the expensive clubs until olders. That is why they have 3-4 teams hustling with privates or setting up pick up games and futsal. Ayso is great for the  community but the guy coaching often times is just a dad doing his part being a good dad and member of the community. Many haven't played so are learning on the fly.  as afar as the country club stuff the coaches are not dumb they go where the money is.  The people with the money are often delusional. And gullible. They ruin it for their kids. Instead of going to watch their kid play then criticize on stuff they have no idea about they should just go and be grateful their kid can play. the silly quote isn't so silly "i just love to watch you play"


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## espola (Oct 18, 2017)

mirage said:


> *Landon Donovan Mulling Run for U.S. Soccer President*
> 
> http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2739449-landon-donovan-reportedly-considering-running-for-us-soccer-president
> 
> ...


But does he know how to finance an MLS team?


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## JJP (Oct 18, 2017)

jose said:


> Pay to play is a popular buzz word.  Nothing is free. In fact baseball/softball are the cheapest club teams then soccer. volleyball hockey, LAX basketball are all ridiculous amounts of money. Even  AYSO cost a small fee but parents are lining fields and playing referee. Club is expensive but the reality the coaches don't make squat even at the expensive clubs until olders. That is why they have 3-4 teams hustling with privates or setting up pick up games and futsal. Ayso is great for the  community but the guy coaching often times is just a dad doing his part being a good dad and member of the community. Many haven't played so are learning on the fly.  as afar as the country club stuff the coaches are not dumb they go where the money is.  The people with the money are often delusional. And gullible. They ruin it for their kids. Instead of going to watch their kid play then criticize on stuff they have no idea about they should just go and be grateful their kid can play. the silly quote isn't so silly "i just love to watch you play"


Lol.  That will never happen.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 20, 2017)

Moreno sounds like me watching these coaches yell at 8 year olds about not getting to practice (like they drive), or coaches talking crap to other coaches during a game. Herc not someone I usually agree with, but gets the topic. McBride a bit of the reason why things dont change, keep things the same but dont keep things the same - so nothing changes. 

http://www.espnfc.us/video/espn-fc-tv/86/video/3235678/assessing-the-state-of-coaching-in-the-us


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## younothat (Oct 20, 2017)

US Soccer scouting ignoring some key population centers

U.S. Soccer’s 10 full time scouts need to do more to find talent in all parts of the country.
https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/usmnt-youth/2017/10/20/16501882/usa-usmnt-us-soccer-scouting-lacking


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 20, 2017)

younothat said:


> US Soccer scouting ignoring some key population centers
> 
> U.S. Soccer’s 10 full time scouts need to do more to find talent in all parts of the country.
> https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/usmnt-youth/2017/10/20/16501882/usa-usmnt-us-soccer-scouting-lacking


They arent ignoring areas on purpose. They havent put the resources in. We are larger than other countries. Germany, for instance, has "thousands" of scouts, but how many are coaches & scouts from pro clubs? They have the financial incentive to find the talent as well. The other issue is MLS doesnt have teams in many areas and no club/academies in the areas. Would be hard for them to monitor them if they are not within the greater city area they are established in. That brings in the opportunity for 2nd/3rd tier clubs to establish themselves - but what incentive do they have? No pro/rel, so financial incentive to start-up, develop talent, sell talent or keep talent and hope to get promoted. So up to USSF to do things in those areas - which is a different how other countries' federations work. We are smart enough to figure it out, plenty of ideas out there, but almost sure to lose a battle with an establishment that has the power, resources and no financial incentive to change. You almost have to approach them talking dollars and lots of them. That is why Ricardo Silva (miami fc) came at MLS with $4Billion just to stir up the convo of pro/rel - otherwise he can never own an MLS team in the area since they just handed one to Becks.


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## El Clasico (Oct 20, 2017)

Not_that_Serious said:


> They arent ignoring areas on purpose. They havent put the resources in. We are larger than other countries. Germany, for instance, has "thousands" of scouts, but how many are coaches & scouts from pro clubs? They have the financial incentive to find the talent as well. The other issue is MLS doesnt have teams in many areas and no club/academies in the areas. Would be hard for them to monitor them if they are not within the greater city area they are established in. That brings in the opportunity for 2nd/3rd tier clubs to establish themselves - but what incentive do they have? No pro/rel, so financial incentive to start-up, develop talent, sell talent or keep talent and hope to get promoted. So up to USSF to do things in those areas - which is a different how other countries' federations work. We are smart enough to figure it out, plenty of ideas out there, but almost sure to lose a battle with an establishment that has the power, resources and no financial incentive to change. You almost have to approach them talking dollars and lots of them. That is why Ricardo Silva (miami fc) came at MLS with $4Billion just to stir up the convo of pro/rel - otherwise he can never own an MLS team in the area since they just handed one to Becks.


$4Billion and it was a non-starter.  That is how difficult of a road we have ahead of us.  It won't be in our lifetime


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## sandshark (Oct 24, 2017)

Youth Soccer in the USA is 99% about MONEY, MONEY and MONEY! The scam is out of control! Lets get real we in the USA have almost 400 million people to choose from, world class athletic training facilities second to none in the world! And according to every single US club coach I have ever met the best youth clubs in the world! And yet they cant win a world title and now they cant even make the cut to play for a title!!! What does this say about the US club soccer programs??? It is yet another shining example of the pure greed and scam American club soccer truly is.
  The women's team has done pretty good over the past 10-15 years but considering all the resources the American team has with the above mentioned examples they are not consistently cutting it to the caliber they should be. This all starts with the grass roots supposedly preparing club players for bigger and better things. Considering the time and money we have all handed these clubs obviously OUR KIDS ARE NOT getting the product we are being sold! The clubs are all the exact same with their chase to grab your wallet at all cost and almost zero care for the future of the players, the clubs treat the majority of players and families like sheep with nothing more than a # and a profile of how much profit they can use you and your family for. I would love to hear the line of pure BS excuses these clubs have about the sorry ass excuse for the US men's soccer team we all just witnessed being kicked out like some 3rd world country's attempt at playing with the big boys! 
There is an upside to the scam, that is with all the money we as families are willing to let the clubs charge us is starting a huge influx of Euro coaches coming to America for their piece of the action! They love it, they have never seen such a easy way to make real money dealing with idiots willing to hand over their hard earned cash based on NOTHING more than cheap lip service!


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## younothat (Oct 25, 2017)

@EricWynalda on running for President of @usaoccer and why @sunilgulati is doing it wrong.
https://art19.com/shows/the-leisuremen-pabst-and-perloff/episodes/406c7684-574b-49a0-9b3c-bc55e8110e4b

"When you really look and dig down at the professional level and see what’s going on a tiers 1, 2 and 3, it is the most disorganized professional outfit on the planet. Then you try to look at the youth organizations who are trying to develop the next superstars and they are even more fragmented than the pros. While we sit back and celebrate all this growth, it is almost that we have to remind people that cancer grows organically too.

“If you don’t have a vision and don’t have a means of getting everybody understanding exactly what their function is within the system, it is not going to work. We are celebrating it right now but the truth is it needs a lot of change, in a hurry, if soccer is going to make sense in this country because we are almost growing out of control. We have become a weed. We talk about grassroots but we have a lot of weeds. This is not the way it is supposed to be.”

“Is there talent? Absolutely. Absolutely. I would argue that there are 100 more Christian Pulisic’s out there. That is quite the statement. I’m coming from practice right now with a bunch of amateur guys that we discovered an 18-year-old Mexican-American boy in a Sunday league two weeks ago and he’s probably going to be the best guy on my team this year. These are the kind of things that are misunderstood.

“I went on the podium the other day and said we don’t have time for a president who has one foot in New York and one foot in Switzerland, we need a president that has boots on the ground now and starts solving some of the problems. That talent is out there. We just have to find them and make sure we take care of that.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/potential-president-wynalda-discusses-plans-144803221.html


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## sandshark (Oct 25, 2017)

younothat said:


> @EricWynalda on running for President of @usaoccer and why @sunilgulati is doing it wrong.
> https://art19.com/shows/the-leisuremen-pabst-and-perloff/episodes/406c7684-574b-49a0-9b3c-bc55e8110e4b
> 
> "When you really look and dig down at the professional level and see what’s going on a tiers 1, 2 and 3, it is the most disorganized professional outfit on the planet. Then you try to look at the youth organizations who are trying to develop the next superstars and they are even more fragmented than the pros. While we sit back and celebrate all this growth, it is almost that we have to remind people that cancer grows organically too.
> ...


Way to much money involved to really invest the time and effort needed to find the raw talent in the youth soccer world. 
The revenue for these US youth soccer clubs is all based on quantity not quality. This system has taken on a life of its own and money always wins over everything. 
The clubs are burning families and children out with their new fancy titles, tournaments and year around 4 days a week, 300 plus days a year training and traveling almost every weekend! They are ruining a great sport. 
Greed ruins passion. Look at what has happened to some of the SD based clubs that went and became Devolomental clubs! Their wins and loses are horrible because the destroyed all the teams for profit! 
It's emploding as we watch.


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## espola (Oct 25, 2017)

sandshark said:


> Way to much money involved to really invest the time and effort needed to find the raw talent in the youth soccer world.
> The revenue for these US youth soccer clubs is all based on quantity not quality. This system has taken on a life of its own and money always wins over everything.
> The clubs are burning families and children out with their new fancy titles, tournaments and year around 4 days a week, 300 plus days a year training and traveling almost every weekend! They are ruining a great sport.
> Greed ruins passion. Look at what has happened to some of the SD based clubs that went and became Devolomental clubs! Their wins and loses are horrible because the destroyed all the teams for profit!
> It's emploding as we watch.


True development at the youth level is not measured in wins and losses.


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## El Clasico (Oct 25, 2017)

True statement but....winning is an indisputable by product of development...


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## sandshark (Oct 25, 2017)

Winning is the measure 99% of every crazy soccer family chooses their next team and club by. And the clubs know this so they exaggerate, manipulate and promote winning in any form possible. It's a great tool for the clubs and a bad tool for young players to try and learn by.


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## El Clasico (Oct 25, 2017)

Agree - 10 times


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## JJP (Oct 26, 2017)

I'm all for holding leadership accountable and improving coaching standards, but there is absolutely no way that will be enough to catch up to the rest of the world.  There is not enough money or coaches to babysit kids through 10,000 hours.

We have to create a culture where kids go out and play on their own, get a lot of touches, and come to academies with their 1v1 game practically built.  I would bet my house that if the kids in this country played as many hours of pickup soccer as they spent on their playstations or phones we would be one of the best in the world.


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## sandshark (Oct 26, 2017)

JJP said:


> I'm all for holding leadership accountable and improving coaching standards, but there is absolutely no way that will be enough to catch up to the rest of the world.  There is not enough money or coaches to babysit kids through 10,000 hours.
> 
> We have to create a culture where kids go out and play on their own, get a lot of touches, and come to academies with their 1v1 game practically built.  I would bet my house that if the kids in this country played as many hours of pickup soccer as they spent on their playstations or phones we would be one of the best in the world.


That is again BS coach talk! 
If your child is training 4 days per week after school and playing out of town games almost every weekend while trying to do well in HS and maintain any type of life outside of soccer how the hell could they ever find time to play pick up games! 
I guess if they had zero life out side of soccer they could play some more soccer. I think the issue is they are burnt out and being pushed threw a system that is based on the numbers / volume of players way above any kind of quality development system.


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## mirage (Oct 26, 2017)

JJP said:


> I'm all for holding leadership accountable and improving coaching standards, but there is absolutely no way that will be enough to catch up to the rest of the world.  There is not enough money or coaches to babysit kids through 10,000 hours.....


I've read the 10,000 hr stuff and my reaction was so what.  It just doesn't fit our lifestyle in US.

BUT, here is post from another thread (2 quick things: My apology to the OP for using it outside of his thread as an example here, and is very typical comments by US coaches not just in DA but also in college soccer).  My reaction to the statement was this is exactly the reason why the are where we are.

_"Player has been shown interest by DA teams. First time in DA. Is it better to be one of the better players on a less successful DA team or a bottom player on one of the top DA teams? Looking for development. Physically - tall, strong and fast. Needs to develop positioning and ball skills."_

Followed up by:

_"DA Coaches are interested. Player is good enough for DA. If not DA , it is just another high level SCDSL or CSL team. - already there. 
Positioning and ball skills are relative - They can always be better and improved. 
Comment by coaches.... I can help with ball skills and positioning ....harder to make a player faster or taller or more competing -those are main strengths already has."_

Without making judgement of the player in the example, the issue is the coach's reaction to the player's physical attributes and downplaying the importance of skills and field awareness (positioning). 

Frankly, if you apply the American value of bigger, faster is better, then this is what you have.  The skills of players are not relative but absolute in terms of what needs to be executed.  Its only relative to the players around you on the field.  And there's the problem.  Vast majority of youth players have not developed adequate skills and by the time they are in HS then onto college age, its too hard for them to improve technical skills.  Its an order of magnitude easier to learn technical skills at 8 yrs than at 12 yrs old.  And another order of magnitude harder at 14 yrs when puberty has set in than at 12 yrs.

The notion of any coach saying something to the effect that skills and positioning is easier to teach than speed or height, as they relate to competitive soccer is nonsense and is one of the key underlying problem with our youth system.  We've all seen it.  Put the tallest, fastest kid at the top and kick the ball to him.  Let him chase it and shoot it for a goal - score!!!!!  Where's the skill in that?

Obviously, these young players grow up and they become aware of how the rest of the world plays and tries to catchup but its simply too late.  Besides, their successes came by playing with their strong and born with attribute and not highly developed skills and knowledge.  

Unfortunately, no matter how fast a player is, he is still slower than the moving ball with an intent and no matter how tall he is, it won't matter if the ball is on the ground.


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## JJP (Oct 26, 2017)

Academy doesn't start until u12, there's plenty of time before academy to play pickup.  You guys who are arguing against pickup, with all due respect, are wrong and ignorant about the history of soccer.  The greatest ever soccer players developed their skills playing pickup and street soccer and were then scouted into academies and were instant stars.

There is a series on YouTube about the games greatest players.  When talking about the greatest ever to play, it sounds like a broken record.  The names and faces change, but the words don't.  "He always had a ball at his feet . . . Every day he would run out and play until the sun went down . . . He was the best player in the club from the moment he put on an academy uniform."

Even academies are playing futsal to give their players the experience of street soccer, where spaces are smaller and there are fewer players, so there's more touches in tight spaces.

The kid who plays pickup with all his free time loves soccer.  The kid who does PlayStation in his free time and plays during scheduled, organized practices loves PlayStation.  The kid who has to have a coach around to practice costs a lot of money to develop.  The kid who plays on his own develops for free.  If I'm in charge, I want to create programs in the US where I can select from a player pool of kids who love to play more than anything and have the self-initiative to become great on their own.

I'm not going to post anymore on the value of pickup soccer.  I'm just just shaking my head.


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## jose (Oct 26, 2017)

JJP said:


> Academy doesn't start until u12, there's plenty of time before academy to play pickup.  You guys who are arguing against pickup, with all due respect, are wrong and ignorant about the history of soccer.  The greatest ever soccer players developed their skills playing pickup and street soccer and were then scouted into academies and were instant stars.
> 
> There is a series on YouTube about the games greatest players.  When talking about the greatest ever to play, it sounds like a broken record.  The names and faces change, but the words don't.  "He always had a ball at his feet . . . Every day he would run out and play until the sun went down . . . He was the best player in the club from the moment he put on an academy uniform."
> 
> ...


100% agree the players that are stars in any sport play all day all night as a kid. they perfect their moves when there is no coach around to tell them to stop screwing around and do the drill he/ she set up.  A parent on my sons team say he has to drag his boy out of the water from surfing. "he's in the from 6 am until 4 pm when i make him get out"......well guess where his passion lies? not on a soccer field.


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## younothat (Oct 30, 2017)

MLS and U.S. Soccer need synergy, and changing the schedule is the key

The MLS schedule is holding us back, and it’s something that should be looked at fixing.
https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2017/10/30/16566434/usa-usmnt-us-soccer-mls-schedule-fifa-fall-spring-summer

"MLS ....needs to adopt the fall (late summer) to spring schedule that the rest of the top five leagues in the world play. It can keep the playoffs and hold onto MLS Cup, but adopting the scheduling norms of the best leagues in the world will help MLS and the USMNT. This issue, among many others, was discussed on a recent episode of the Total Soccer Show, and the entire podcast is worth a listen.


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## timbuck (Oct 30, 2017)

younothat said:


> MLS and U.S. Soccer need synergy, and changing the schedule is the key
> 
> The MLS schedule is holding us back, and it’s something that should be looked at fixing.
> https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2017/10/30/16566434/usa-usmnt-us-soccer-mls-schedule-fifa-fall-spring-summer
> ...


Heck, if they can adjust our youth age groups to match the rest of the world, then surely they can change the MLS season around.   It's certainly got to be easier than changing registration and teams for a few million kids.  Adding new field dimensions, goal sizes and roster sizes.  And then throwing in a new competitive league for female players.


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## espola (Oct 30, 2017)

El Clasico said:


> True statement but....winning is an indisputable by product of development...


But only a byproduct.  The true measurement should be in improvements of skill and team play, unless the whole point of the program is to win a domestic tournament once a year.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 30, 2017)

IMO issues arent hard to solve if those in charge are willing to make the changes - also if others will follow the changes. problem is the $ factor. those who FEEL they will lose money will resist. this system has been in place for at least 40-50 years? 

If you look at the map, posted in earlier link, where talent is being pulled from you notice not every state is being repped. So my natural thought is to use our gov model. Set up organizing bodies, like Cal South, to run programs under the umbrella of USSF. Bigger states have to be split up. These orgs can certify/verify clubs (remove flyby-night clubs and snakeoil salesman), provide licensing education, player camps, combines, etc.  State Orgs can even run a league or combine the ones that exist - too many leagues at the moment and have leagues run in a manner that doesnt improve players. 

License costs need to go down and have more dates available locally. Germany A license is roughly $600 with US charging $4k before travel. Thats insane. Offer C's and B's opps to go for A at low cost, or even free. Offer E's and D's opps to improve as well. Our coaching pool improves, player pool will improve. Just need to get into areas that are ignored. Need more organization and USSF cant manage a country this large without help.  Again, this is a matter of $ (business) vs improvement. Can make less money and improve quicker or focus on more $ and continue the same. 

If USSF really wants to blow things up, they go to community based clubs via an umbrella of State Orgs. So Cal has I believe TWO community based clubs - ones where main admins dont get paid. Feed money via USSF , with partnerships with cities/counties to fund clubs. When cities/counties donate field time, it drops costs. Politicians would jump on projects that would help out get them votes... i mean things that would enrich their districts.  Still have to have pay-to-play but allows for more opps for scholarships. You wont get as many club jumpers and get more involvement when you play at your local club. Then again as mentioned, this would involve changing much of the club culture - win now, arrogance, etc. Also, big clubs making $ dont want community based clubs to grow.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 30, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Heck, if they can adjust our youth age groups to match the rest of the world, then surely they can change the MLS season around.   It's certainly got to be easier than changing registration and teams for a few million kids.  Adding new field dimensions, goal sizes and roster sizes.  And then throwing in a new competitive league for female players.


Wynalda already cut the legs off the MLS bs excuse about competing against other leagues if they change the schedule. Been saying it for at least 5 years. Currently MLS competes against MLB world series, college football, nfl season, and nba. As far as cold season, longer winter break.


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## JJP (Oct 30, 2017)

younothat said:


> "MLS ....needs to adopt the fall (late summer) to spring schedule that the rest of the top five leagues in the world play. It can keep the playoffs and hold onto MLS Cup, but adopting the scheduling norms of the best leagues in the world will help MLS and the USMNT. This issue, among many others, was discussed on a recent episode of the Total Soccer Show, and the entire podcast is worth a listen.


Somebody is really reaching IMO to say that changing MLS schedule will help the national team.  The points made in the article seem pretty silly to me.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 30, 2017)

JJP said:


> Somebody is really reaching IMO to say that changing MLS schedule will help the national team.  The points made in the article seem pretty silly to me.


was pointed out by Wynalda, and other that players on the USMNT, that players often do not play at 100% full potential/effort when they know they have a callup looming. so they arent prepared for the level of intensity mentally and often pop a hammy because of it. said syncing the schedule would allow players to prepare properly. it also affects the transfer market and hurts players in MLS trying to go overseas to play- euro teams dont grab players during current transfer windows due to the MLS schedule.


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## JJP (Oct 30, 2017)

Not_that_Serious said:


> was pointed out by Wynalda, and other that players on the USMNT, that players often do not play at 100% full potential/effort when they know they have a callup looming. so they arent prepared for the level of intensity mentally and often pop a hammy because of it. said syncing the schedule would allow players to prepare properly. it also affects the transfer market and hurts players in MLS trying to go overseas to play- euro teams dont grab players during current transfer windows due to the MLS schedule.


Didn't know this, but OTOH these points could also be made by players in other pro leagues.  Lot of managers complaint because they have to rest players who play a lot during international break, and lot of players get hurt right after international break due to overuse injuries.  I've read managers and players in different leagues around the world complain about the international schedule.

I think hurting the transfer market is the main point, I can see European teams not wanting to buy a marginal player because he has already played a full season.  However, again, I just don't see this as a big deal.


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## younothat (Nov 13, 2017)

1,834 Days by CHRISTIAN PULISIC
in my heart, I knew it was over when we walked off the field. I think we all did.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/christian-pulisic-usmnt-world-cup/

"The first thing I want to say here, obviously, is that I’m not an expert. I’m sure there are a lot of people out there who know a lot more about national soccer programs than I do — and I hope those are the people we’ll have in charge of American soccer over the next World Cup cycle. Me, I’m just a 19 year old, in my first full year with the national team. So any insight that I can offer is only based on what I’ve experienced and observed in my career so far.

The second thing I want to say here is that I’m not a prodigy — or a “wonderboy,” as some have put it. I was always, you know, a decent player growing up. And yes, I was born with a certain amount of so-called “natural ability.” But I also worked and sacrificed _a lot_ to try to maximize what I was born with — which I think is important to point out. I think it’s important to make clear, you know, that the problem with American soccer … it isn’t talent. In fact, I’m sure there are kids who are going to be reading this article who are more talented at their age than I ever was.

And then the third thing I want to say here is that I love American soccer. Which maybe sounds obvious — but I think a lot of people have this weird idea of USMNT players who have come up in Europe. They’ll talk about how we’re somehow less passionate about U.S. Soccer, or less _American_ about it. That we’re these ringers or something — these outsiders brought in as, like, a cheat code to beat European sides. And it couldn’t be further from the truth.

It really frustrates me when people say, “Oh, he’s barely American,” or, “He grew up in the Dortmund academy,” or anything like that. First of all, it’s not true: Until I was 16, I came up through the U.S. youth system. I did all of the camps, the academies, the residency programs, the travel teams, and everything else it had to offer. I’ll always be a part of that system, and I’ll always be indebted to it. Second of all, I think that’s just a dangerous attitude in general: Having a closed-minded view of what does or doesn’t constitute being an American. And I hope it’s an attitude that we can keep out of this conversation in the years to come."

When people ask me what has been the biggest game-changer of my career — when they ask me, you know, “What’s the one thing that has had the biggest impact on your game so far” — that isn’t the easiest question to answer. I’ve had a lot of good fortune over the years: from supportive parents, to amazing youth academies, to incredible teammates, and on down the line.

But one thing that I’m not sure people realize, when they talk about my game, is just how lucky I’ve been to have a Croatian passport — and just how much of a difference it’s made for me.

As a result of my dual citizenship, I’ve been able to play in Europe, training at the Dortmund academy, since I was 16. Without it? I would have had to wait until I was 18. And for a soccer player … man, ask anyone and they’ll tell you — those age 16–18 years are _everything_. From a developmental perspective, it’s almost like this sweet spot: It’s the age where a player’s growth and skill sort of intersect, in just the right way — and where, with the right direction, a player can make their biggest leap in development by far.

In the U.S. system, too often the best player on an under-17 team will be treated like a “star” — not having to work for the ball, being the focus of the offense at all times, etc. — at a time when they should be having to fight tooth and nail for their spot. In Europe, on the other hand, the average level of ability around you is just so much higher. It’s a pool of players where _everyone_ has been “the best player,” and everyone is fighting for a spot — truly week in and week out. Which makes the intensity and humility that you need to bring to the field every day — both from a mental and physical perspective — just unlike anything that you can really experience in U.S. developmental soccer.

Without those experiences, there’s simply no way that I would be at anywhere close to the level that I am today"


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## Not_that_Serious (Nov 13, 2017)

Got Soccer presidential "debate" - all these guys are nice to each other
These guys could cut up Paul Caligiuri's character in 2 minutes. Loved his answers on club soccer, how he skips over his real past with club soccer and why he doesnt want to change much with club soccer. The other candidates should hand out posters with his face and say "This is why I need to run US Soccer"


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## Mystery Train (Nov 13, 2017)

younothat said:


> 1,834 Days by CHRISTIAN PULISIC
> in my heart, I knew it was over when we walked off the field. I think we all did.
> https://www.theplayerstribune.com/christian-pulisic-usmnt-world-cup/
> 
> ...


I saw a recap of this on ESPN FC and posted it in another thread.  Really impressed with Pulisic!  If only this level of logic and honesty was the norm in US soccer.


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## timbuck (Nov 13, 2017)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Got Soccer presidential "debate" - all these guys are nice to each other
> These guys could cut up Paul Caligiuri's character in 2 minutes. Loved his answers on club soccer, how he skips over his real past with club soccer and why he doesnt want to change much with club soccer. The other candidates should hand out posters with his face and say "This is why I need to run US Soccer"


When gotsoccer is putting together a forum for the candidates to run Us soccer, then our problems are bigger than we realize.


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## Not_that_Serious (Nov 14, 2017)

timbuck said:


> When gotsoccer is putting together a forum for the candidates to run Us soccer, then our problems are bigger than we realize.





timbuck said:


> When gotsoccer is putting together a forum for the candidates to run Us soccer, then our problems are bigger than we realize.


Yeah no kidding. Just had to rub my eyes to make sure it was really Paul Caliguri running for prez. Now that puts our issues into perspective


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## JJP (Nov 14, 2017)

The more I learn about Pulisic, I just think to myself, what a great kid and what an incredible job his parents did.

I happen to agree with Pulisic in that I don’t think he is the most athletically talented player, and there are plenty of players with athletic talent as great as his, or even better.  I think because he doesn’t have top notch athleticism, he has stretches of games with Borussia Dortmund where he is invisible.

But I still think Pulisic is special and he has world class qualities as a player.  First, he has incredible vision and anticipation, and to me it’s obvious that he has developed his vision because he loves the game and is always thinking, what could I have done better, could I have timed my run better, could I have passed it at a better angle? Players like this just get more efficient, their passes and runs are on time and at the right places, and they make their teammates better.

Second, I think Pulisic does have one special physical talent, and that his ability to make great touches, passes and shots when he is running full speed and all stretched out.  Usually even great talents are hit or miss when they are stretched out, but I’ve seen Pulisic make so many plays running top speed and stretched out that I am convinced it is not luck.  I think the kid has surprising rubber band flexibility and strength.

I think these two special talents of Pulisic, his vision and ability to make plays on the run fully stretched out, combine in a highly synergistic way to produce world class plays.  He had made so many assists where defenders 1) didn’t think he could make a play on the ball and 2) didn’t see his passing angle.


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## Hired Gun (Feb 10, 2018)

Hired Gun said:


> Sad day in US Soccer.  Many fingers have been pointed to why.
> 1. Coaching in general - from US National to youth soccer
> 2. Youth Soccer Structure
> 3. Best US athletes playing other sports
> ...


*Carlos Cordeiro is the new President US Soccer - second in command currently - don't see how this is going to change things.... Also not a soccer person.....*


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## Ghostwriter (Feb 10, 2018)

Ghostwriter said:


> My take away from US Soccer. It starts from the top down and the hiring of Bruce Arena was a disaster. It was a retread hire and his style is as old as the 90s.  What is at the core of the problem is what we look for in a future player.  I have seen first hand how the selection process goes it is political, it is flawed, and at it's core we look for athletes not soccer players.  We have the mentality that big, fast, athletic overrides everything else, with soccer IQ, touch, processing the game, and ability to play on that stage not even part of the selection process.  By the time the players get to the senior level the ones that have the soccer IQs, touch, etc have been weeded out for the most part and what is left isn't world class soccer players, it's the American ideal. We have no soccer identity, we get a player that has decent touch like Bradley and we think he is the next big thing but in the process from ages 15-23 we had hundreds of players better than Bradley's touch but they didn't pass the athleticism test so they were never given a shot. There is no easy fix and the whole model has to be changed but we don't have the soccer imagination, nor the know how to make that change. My guess is we will hire somebody like Alexi Lalas and double down on the American way.   This mentality is rampant throughout the girls and boys club team's "give me an athlete and I will mold them into a soccer player" mentality.  It is backwards and it is costly on the world stage. The men have been a disaster on the world stage with the exception of some isolated moments and the women have had a huge head start for a couple of decades and now the world has closed that gap as they invest in the women's game.  Until coaches at all levels put soccer IQ, ability to read the game with and without the ball, and touch ahead of big, fast, and athletic we will repeat this nightmare over and over again.


We will repeat this nightmare over and over again.


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## timbuck (Feb 10, 2018)

Carlos first order of business is to take the “e” license course and get his grade 8 ref certification. 
#carloskickswithhistoe


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## MakeAPlay (Feb 10, 2018)

We are a bright and diverse and AMAZING country.  Why are we doomed to stay on this hamster wheel?  I think that I am going to be sick.  I shouldn't be surprised though.


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## outside! (Feb 10, 2018)

It looks like the moneyed interests protected their power.


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## GKDad65 (Feb 10, 2018)

Unbelievable, another sad day for US Soccer.


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## timbuck (Feb 10, 2018)

If Carlos wants to make an immediate impact, he will:
1. Appoint Wynalda as the VP of Professional and National Teams 
2. Appoint Martino as the VP of Grass Roots soccer.  
And he will run things as a money manager and ultimate decision maker.  

(And then he’ll use me as a consultant to keep his head out of his ass).


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## outside! (Feb 11, 2018)

timbuck said:


> (And then he’ll use me as a consultant to keep his head out of his ass).


Do you specialize in avoidance or removal?


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## Not_that_Serious (Feb 13, 2018)

timbuck said:


> If Carlos wants to make an immediate impact, he will:
> 1. Appoint Wynalda as the VP of Professional and National Teams
> 2. Appoint Martino as the VP of Grass Roots soccer.
> And he will run things as a money manager and ultimate decision maker.
> ...


Wynalda needs to be GM of soccer side or VP. Martino, still not convinced he was hired to disrupt.

Make Solo a person who does ambassador work and diversity work.

If wynalda was soccer gm id make Winograd VP. Can have Gans in a position to oversee everything is being done above board. 

You dont let Caliguri anywhere near anything.


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## Manuel Morandi (Feb 13, 2018)

Sums it up:

https://www-theplayerstribune-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.theplayerstribune.com/geoff-cameron-what-must-change-in-u-s-soccer/amp/


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