# DMCV Sharks Girls Director



## silverback

Coach MW formally at Albion has joined Sharks as their new director on the girls side. Many have posted their thoughts regarding Sharks and their performance in ECNL and have offered various suggestions (on other threads) as to how they move forward. Well here is a concrete action they have taken. Based on MW teams prior performances, level, and style of play this may be a positive step for those that hope to see the level of play in ECNL continue to be raised from top to bottom.


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## OCSoccerDad3

Huge acquisition by Sharks and major loss for Albion. Smart play by MW to get into a leadership position at an ECNL club that could certainly benefit from his guidance. Bravo, Sharks.


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## Messi>CR7

silverback said:


> Coach MW formally at Albion has joined Sharks as their new director on the girls side. Many have posted their thoughts regarding Sharks and their performance in ECNL and have offered various suggestions (on other threads) as to how they move forward. Well here is a concrete action they have taken. Based on MW teams prior performances, level, and style of play this may be a positive step for those that hope to see the level of play in ECNL continue to be raised from top to bottom.


Is MW = Whitaker?  He can coach.  Full stop.


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## Goforgoal

Indeed. Definitely a positive development for Sharks (and arguably much needed) and a loss for Albion.


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## Goforgoal

Messi>CR7 said:


> Is MW = Whitaker?  He can coach.  Full stop.


Yes, and yes he sure can. He's excellent.


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## Technician72

Will be interesting to see how his role plays out, as some Directors have worn multiple hats overseeing the ECNL Program and continuing to Coach. His Albion teams were very fun to watch and competitive as well.


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## Emma

MW is a great addition to Sharks.  Glad to see Sharks moving in the right direction.  Hope he will be coaching a few teams with assistant coaches and have leeway to bring in players and hand out scholarships to strengthen their ECNL teams.  Sharks has good directors but they need ambitious coaches like MW.  If MW doesn't coach and recruit for ECNL teams but only wears a director hat, it will not help Sharks much.


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## Footy30

That's great for the Sharks, the more competitive teams the better especially in an area where there is so much talent. I can only imagine everyone in SD wants to play for Surf (assumption don't shoot me) but having another strong ECNL option will be great for the girls in SD area....


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## OCSoccerDad3

Surf can only have 11 girls on the field at a time, like everyone else. Girls who have the #12-18 roster slots at Surf would be wise to consider being starters at another ECNL club, from what I've seen, especially in the younger ECNL years where playing time is so critical to their development (and continued enjoyment of the game).


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## Panther11

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> Surf can only have 11 girls on the field at a time, like everyone else. Girls who have the #12-18 roster slots at Surf would be wise to consider being starters at another ECNL club, from what I've seen, especially in the younger ECNL years where playing time is so critical to their development (and continued enjoyment of the game).


Agreed.  There are a number of ECNL teams with full to overflowing rosters while others struggle to fill theirs.  It makes no sense for a child to only play 10-15 minutes a game just to say that they are on the "insert mega-club team name here".


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## LASTMAN14

silverback said:


> Coach MW formally at Albion has joined Sharks as their new director on the girls side. Many have posted their thoughts regarding Sharks and their performance in ECNL and have offered various suggestions (on other threads) as to how they move forward. Well here is a concrete action they have taken. Based on MW teams prior performances, level, and style of play this may be a positive step for those that hope to see the level of play in ECNL continue to be raised from top to bottom.


You know what I think of MW!


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## oh canada

Albion girls have been a mess since the DA folding.  Now losing their top younger girls coach?  Look for Sharks and Rebels to benefit.  


Footy30 said:


> I can only imagine everyone in SD wants to play for Surf (assumption don't shoot me)


We know at least 3 former 2005 Surf "A" players (starters) who moved to other clubs for various reasons.  I believe there are top players from other ages too who have left.  Despite its efforts, Surf no longer holds all the cards for SD county kids.


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## MZDad

Anyone on Surf's dual roster should be looking to Sharks to get field time.


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## LouSag

MZDad said:


> Anyone on Surf's dual roster should be looking to Sharks to get field time.


Surf’s dual roster girls that play ECRL would beat Sharks ECNL by lots of goals in the ‘06-07’ age groups.  Should they go play ECNL for a weak ECNL team just to say they play in ECNL?  Honest question.   Many Surf ECRL “second teamers”/dual roster players stay at Surf ECRL for reasons—i.e quality coaching, quality ECRL team, development etc… many of these ECRL players are more than capable of making ECNL rosters with playing time at the weaker ECNL clubs like Sharks.

Agree, MW is a great move for Sharks.


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## MZDad

LouSag said:


> Surf’s dual roster girls that play ECRL would beat Sharks ECNL by lots of goals in the ‘06-07’ age groups.  Should they go play ECNL for a weak ECNL team just to say they play in ECNL?  Honest question.   Many Surf ECRL “second teamers”/dual roster players stay at Surf ECRL for reasons—i.e quality coaching, quality ECRL team, development etc… many of these ECRL players are more than capable of making ECNL rosters with playing time at the weaker ECNL clubs like Sharks.
> 
> Agree, MW is a great move for Sharks.


I was thinking if 6 or 7 of those kids you described thought about it. They could form a pretty competitive ECNL team with decent playing time over at Sharks. It would create a very different look to Sharks teams. 

Just a thought though. 

I mean if my kid was on the bench a good amount on an ECNL or on an ECRL team and had a chance to go with a few others in the same boat and kind of start a "newish" team and get to start on an ECNL team, that might be a consideration.


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## LouSag

MZDad said:


> I was thinking if 6 or 7 of those kids you described thought about it. They could form a pretty competitive ECNL team with decent playing time over at Sharks. It would create a very different look to Sharks teams.
> 
> Just a thought though.
> 
> I mean if my kid was on the bench a good amount on an ECNL or on an ECRL team and had a chance to go with a few others in the same boat and kind of start a "newish" team and get to start on an ECNL team, that might be a consideration.


It’s already happened with Rebels…3-4 of those Surf ECRL players leave to go play for a Rebels ECNL team.  I agree with your sentiment.
Just to play devils advocate, this season 2021-22 is the first time there will be a national championship for ECRL (so we are promised!).  The big clues ECRL teams (not just in So Cal) will show well in this tournament.  That will draw more talent to the ECRL teams.  
I think we all agree that a promotion/relegation system for ECNL/R leagues would be beneficial.  Some of these ECNL teams have 2 goals for and 50+ against for an ECNL season (I.e. Sharks, Arsenal).  Not too much development is happening in that scenario.


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## WestOfFive

MZDad said:


> I was thinking if 6 or 7 of those kids you described thought about it. They could form a pretty competitive ECNL team with decent playing time over at Sharks. It would create a very different look to Sharks teams.
> 
> Just a thought though.
> 
> I mean if my kid was on the bench a good amount on an ECNL or on an ECRL team and had a chance to go with a few others in the same boat and kind of start a "newish" team and get to start on an ECNL team, that might be a consideration.


I have an 06 daughter right now on a ECNL team and entertained the thought of going over to DMCV Sharks soon. How do I go about that? Can I go from one ECNL roster to another before the August 31st deadline? Or do I have to wait? Anybody know the process? Can I drop her from player pool?


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## MZDad

WestOfFive said:


> I have an 06 daughter right now on a ECNL team and entertained the thought of going over to DMCV Sharks soon. How do I go about that? Can I go from one ECNL roster to another before the August 31st deadline? Or do I have to wait? Anybody know the process? Can I drop her from player pool?


I'm sure if you gave a call to the DOC over there at Sharks they would happily walk you through the process!


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## crush

Every player can make that change for the health of the player, trust me  Good Mental Health ((GMH)) is super important you guys and I would say more important then kicking a ball against a wall all day and thinking about that next touch and hoping dad doesn;t correct your ass in the car on the way home  I like more choices in this arena. Competition keeps you on your toes and makes sure you treat ALL customers fairly. Monopoly in soccer sucks!!! It's not a good thing for little girls, moo! Good luck to all you down in San Diego. Great talent down there and great people too


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## Carlsbad7

MZDad said:


> I'm sure if you gave a call to the DOC over there at Sharks they would happily walk you through the process!


You'd think... While the move to bring MW on is a great start. Sharks still need a house cleaning to get rid of the deadwood.


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## Emma

Carlsbad7 said:


> You'd think... While the move to bring MW on is a great start. Sharks still need a house cleaning to get rid of the deadwood.


MW will make those teams competitive soon.  What's there to lose if your daughter is currently on the bench or on an ecrl team?  Your daughter can be a starter and play against ECNL teams, not ECRL teams, and we've seen what MW can do with teams and programs.


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## OCSoccerDad3

MZDad said:


> I was thinking if 6 or 7 of those kids you described thought about it. They could form a pretty competitive ECNL team with decent playing time over at Sharks. It would create a very different look to Sharks teams.
> 
> Just a thought though.
> 
> I mean if my kid was on the bench a good amount on an ECNL or on an ECRL team and had a chance to go with a few others in the same boat and kind of start a "newish" team and get to start on an ECNL team, that might be a consideration.


Agree. Sitting the bench is a no-go for my kids. Full stop. Take the top "dual roster" (does anyone really buy into that?) and ECRL kids from Surf and combine them with a few of the top kids from Sharks and other nearby non-ECNL San Diego clubs (City, Albion, SDSC) and you could have yourself an ECNL team at Sharks that can compete with just about anyone. If we lived a little further south, I'd be all over it.


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## crush

Emma said:


> MW will make those teams competitive soon.  What's there to lose if your daughter is currently on the bench or on an ecrl team?  Your daughter can be a starter and play against ECNL teams, not ECRL teams, and we've seen what MW can do with teams and programs.


100% true Emma.  We ALL need to just call the girls soccer players.  Some just need a chance to play.  This is 100% a win and a big win for all in SD.  Congratulations you guys, you deserve it.  I don't know this MW, but wow, folks are happy and that makes me happy.


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## crush

Carlsbad7 said:


> You'd think... While the move to bring MW on is a great start. Sharks still need a house cleaning to get rid of the deadwood.


I think if were all to be honest, we ALL need to clean our own house first and then get rid of the driftwood on our foreheads and then go help others. For example, I was coaching a guy who owned his own business back in the day.  Yelpers will let you know how your really doing.  He had a 3.3 avg in the trade arena and customers in this arena are scared to get ripped off.  He called me because I was helping another guy he knew who had 5 star all over his place.  I set up a meeting and had to sit out in front of his call center.  Then he came out barking and cussing at his workers.  I could see clearly why this guy was 3.5.  It's starts with the owner I told him, his leadership style ((mission statement)) and then how he teats the folks that work for him.  I told him in a pro way that If you treat people that work for you like shit, then you will get 3.5 or less.  He told be to buzz off and he hates Yelp anyways.  Dude was spending over $30,000 a month with Google because they dont really hold him accountable.  Fake review's is easy peasy on some social platforms.  Not yelp!!!


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## Carlsbad7

Emma said:


> MW will make those teams competitive soon.  What's there to lose if your daughter is currently on the bench or on an ecrl team?  Your daughter can be a starter and play against ECNL teams, not ECRL teams, and we've seen what MW can do with teams and programs.


I have no doubts that MW can make teams competitive. The problem with Sharks isn't resolved just by bringing on a new Girls DOC. Leadership has allowed Sharks to swirl around the toilet for 10+ years. Change starts at the top + certain people need to go or be realigned into positions better fitting their skillsets.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Emma said:


> MW will make those teams competitive soon.  What's there to lose if your daughter is currently on the bench or on an ecrl team?  Your daughter can be a starter and play against ECNL teams, not ECRL teams, and we've seen what MW can do with teams and programs.


No one is factoring in the motivation for girls to play on a certain team (ECRL for example).  DD is happy on the team she is on.  She plays with her best friend.  She has great teammates.  Teammates parents are supportive.   Her team is competitive against some pretty good talent.  She does not aspire to play ECNL.  She had the opportunity to go the DA path a few years ago and decided against it.   We talked about the other local clubs and she decided against moving.  Some times there is more to life.


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## Emma

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> No one is factoring in the motivation for girls to play on a certain team (ECRL for example).  DD is happy on the team she is on.  She plays with her best friend.  She has great teammates.  Teammates parents are supportive.   Her team is competitive against some pretty good talent.  She does not aspire to play ECNL.  She had the opportunity to go the DA path a few years ago and decided against it.   We talked about the other local clubs and she decided against moving.  Some times there is more to life.


MW is not the right soccer club coach for any player who prioritizes the social aspect of club soccer over the competitiveness of it.


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## outside!

Emma said:


> MW is not the right soccer club coach for any player who prioritizes the social aspect of club soccer over the competitiveness of it.


Couldn't the same be said about ECNL?


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## Emma

outside! said:


> Couldn't the same be said about ECNL?


That's questionable for a few of the ECNL programs.  This is true of MW regardless of which league he's coaching in.


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## FernandoFromNationalCity

Will MW coaching any teams and if so? what age groups??


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## Goforgoal

FernandoFromNationalCity said:


> Will MW coaching any teams and if so? what age groups??


I don't have any details, but I'm sure he'll be coaching some teams, probably in the middle age groups somewhere (9v9 to the first couple of 11v11 years).


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## oh canada

He is screwing over his current Albion teams though right?  Didn't they already pay for a full season through Feb/March 2022 expecting him to be their coach?  Doesn't he usually coach 3+ younger teams?

Agree with what's been said above about 1 guy not being able to transform a club.  To truly improve down there they gotta hire 4+ more quality coaches and have demonstrable success/improvement in play and player placement.  It is a start, but still a long road forward with two other ECNL clubs in the county who are well ahead of them.


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## foreveryoung

oh canada said:


> He is screwing over his current Albion teams though right?  Didn't they already pay for a full season through Feb/March 2022 expecting him to be their coach?  Doesn't he usually coach 3+ younger teams?
> 
> Agree with what's been said above about 1 guy not being able to transform a club.  To truly improve down there they gotta hire 4+ more quality coaches and have demonstrable success/improvement in play and player placement.  It is a start, but still a long road forward with two other ECNL clubs in the county who are well ahead of them.


The 21-22 season hasn't actually started so my guess is they could get their money back.  And I would guess some of the players are following him to Sharks.


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## Darmah

oh canada said:


> He is screwing over his current Albion teams though right?  Didn't they already pay for a full season through Feb/March 2022 expecting him to be their coach?  Doesn't he usually coach 3+ younger teams?
> 
> Agree with what's been said above about 1 guy not being able to transform a club.  To truly improve down there they gotta hire 4+ more quality coaches and have demonstrable success/improvement in play and player placement.  It is a start, but still a long road forward with two other ECNL clubs in the county who are well ahead of them.


I agree with you in regards to pulling a fast one with his Albion teams.  How do you think he spins the conversation?  Can he offer scholarships to all his Albion players to move?


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## OCSoccerDad3

Lol. My kids have played competitive soccer for years and I don't remember ever seeing in the fine print of my contract that we were guaranteed a particular coach for the duration of the season, as much as we'd all like to assume that will be the case. Life happens. People move. People get better opportunities. It's a job for the coaches and a business for the clubs. Players can follow coaches who leave mid-season if they want to, but I wouldn't expect them to be guaranteed spots on the roster or scholarships by any stretch of the imagination. Plus, despite all the guesses, it doesn't sound like anyone has any reliable intel as to whether this coach will immediately take any teams and, if so, in which age group(s).


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## Soccer Pop

oh canada said:


> He is screwing over his current Albion teams though right?  Didn't they already pay for a full season through Feb/March 2022 expecting him to be their coach?  Doesn't he usually coach 3+ younger teams?
> 
> Agree with what's been said above about 1 guy not being able to transform a club.  To truly improve down there they gotta hire 4+ more quality coaches and have demonstrable success/improvement in play and player placement.  It is a start, but still a long road forward with two other ECNL clubs in the county who are well ahead of them.


He is not screwing his players. Ask the club why they took his 06 team from him after winning the National Title and regulated him to coaching the younger age groups? They screwed the players and parents not him.


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## Emma

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> Lol. My kids have played competitive soccer for years and I don't remember ever seeing in the fine print of my contract that we were guaranteed a particular coach for the duration of the season, as much as we'd all like to assume that will be the case. Life happens. People move. People get better opportunities. It's a job for the coaches and a business for the clubs. Players can follow coaches who leave mid-season if they want to, but I wouldn't expect them to be guaranteed spots on the roster or scholarships by any stretch of the imagination. Plus, despite all the guesses, it doesn't sound like anyone has any reliable intel as to whether this coach will immediately take any teams and, if so, in which age group(s).


Since Club Soccer is year round now, this is the best time to do it,  beginning of a season before roster freeze.


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## LouSag

Goforgoal said:


> I don't have any details, but I'm sure he'll be coaching some teams, probably in the middle age groups somewhere (9v9 to the first couple of 11v11 years).


At Albion, MW always coached the u14 girls and younger.  Maybe expect the same at Sharks.


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## Speed

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> Lol. My kids have played competitive soccer for years and I don't remember ever seeing in the fine print of my contract that we were guaranteed a particular coach for the duration of the season, as much as we'd all like to assume that will be the case. Life happens. People move. People get better opportunities. It's a job for the coaches and a business for the clubs. Players can follow coaches who leave mid-season if they want to, but I wouldn't expect them to be guaranteed spots on the roster or scholarships by any stretch of the imagination. Plus, despite all the guesses, it doesn't sound like anyone has any reliable intel as to whether this coach will immediately take any teams and, if so, in which age group(s).


Yep we had 3 for our ECRL team last year


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## Bubsy

Game changer for San Diego


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## Emma

FernandoFromNationalCity said:


> Will MW coaching any teams and if so? what age groups??


You should reach out to him.  I'm guessing he will be coaching ECNL teams now that he's director of it.  He needs to coach more than the 2009 team to recruit players to Sharks.


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## Carlsbad7

Emma said:


> You should reach out to him.  I'm guessing he will be coaching ECNL teams now that he's director of it.  He needs to coach more than the 2009 team to recruit players to Sharks.


Why do you assume MW will be involved with ECNL teams?

At this point the only known item is what MW will be a Girls DOC at Sharks. He could be DOC for all of the Girls teams, he could be the DOC of just ECNL teams, he could also be the DOC of just the younger not yet ECNL teams.

All eyes are on Sharks leadership right now. They have the opportunity to turn this into a huge win. They also have the opportunity to make it a huge loss. (By sidelining MW + not providing the environment to be successful)

What I'm curious to see is what coaches stay, leave, and are brought on over the next 6 months. This more than anything will determine how Sharks recruitment will go for next season.


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## OCSoccerDad3

Maybe Emma is privy to information that the rest of us aren’t!


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## Sombitch

LouSag said:


> At Albion, MW always coached the u14 girls and younger.  Maybe expect the same at Sharks.


This was the same story years ago when he coached the younger teams at Newport Mesa. He squeezed every ounce of juice out of that orange - and they were eventually able to compete with the big dogs at the younger ages!!


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## oh canada

Will the North County San Diego white upper middle-class crowd reject its obsession for big brand name consumption?  I'm not sure those parents have the courage and objective foresight and reasoning to choose coaches over club reputation, even if that rep is undeserved.  Though Surf is doing its best lately to prove it is in decline.


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## crush

oh canada said:


> Will the North County San Diego white upper middle-class crowd reject its obsession for big brand name consumption?  I'm not sure those parents have the courage and objective foresight and reasoning to choose coaches over club reputation, even if that rep is undeserved.  Though Surf is doing its best lately to prove it is in decline.


Congrats on the gold btw and truly being #1 in the world.  You have score board until World Cup 2023.


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## oh canada

crush said:


> Congrats on the gold btw and truly being #1 in the world.  You have score board until World Cup 2023.


thx Crush - we'll take it any way we can get it -- PK dominators   Now if we can just bring the Stanley Cup home...


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## Carlsbad10

oh canada said:


> Will the North County San Diego white upper middle-class crowd reject its obsession for big brand name consumption?  I'm not sure those parents have the courage and objective foresight and reasoning to choose coaches over club reputation, even if that rep is undeserved.  Though Surf is doing its best lately to prove it is in decline.


Help me understand how Surf is in decline when the 06's lost in the last minute of the ECNL final (then won Surf Cup), the 07's lost in PK's to go to the semi's of the ECNL playoffs (then won Surf Cup), and the 08's won both Manchester City and Surf Cup.


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## Carlsbad7

Carlsbad10 said:


> Help me understand how Surf is in decline when the 06's lost in the last minute of the ECNL final (then won Surf Cup), the 07's lost in PK's to go to the semi's of the ECNL playoffs (then won Surf Cup), and the 08's won both Manchester City and Surf Cup.


Next season Surf is going to implement player pools. What will likely happen is 3-5 of the "best of the best of the best" will get a golden ticket A team guarantee + likely scholarship. The rest of the players will will either be in the player pool that can play A or B teams or they'll be designated B team only. From a Club perspective player pools makes a lot of sense. If certain players aren't working out on the A team you can shift them off and bring in initially tagged B team players. From a parent perspective player pools doesn't make sense when you're paying 5K+ for soccer fees.

This is where Sharks come in. Surf and Sharks are right next to each other and both play in ECNL. As long as the players and coaches are decent Sharks might be the way to go. Players that are average on Surf will be superstars at Sharks. If you're trying to appeal to college recruiters it might make more sense to be on the field vs on the bench.


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## oh canada

Carlsbad10 said:


> Help me understand how Surf is in decline when the 06's lost in the last minute of the ECNL final (then won Surf Cup), the 07's lost in PK's to go to the semi's of the ECNL playoffs (then won Surf Cup), and the 08's won both Manchester City and Surf Cup.


must be a Surf parent.  Noted.  You're making my point for me.  It's all about winning tournaments for you and your ilk.  

The club is losing good players more than ever before, the coaching turnover is at a higher rate than ever before, their tournaments are not as popular (Surf Cup is not what it used to be), they have more competition in the county than ever before, and oh, there's this little thing you might not have heard about called a sexual harassment lawsuit against current management.  

Meanwhile, Sharks just hired a great soccer guy to work in Surf's backyard and Rebels is placing players into top colleges more than ever.  

But, that's just my perspective from the OC, so what do I know.


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## crush

oh canada said:


> must be a Surf parent.  Noted.  You're making my point for me.  It's all about winning tournaments for you and your ilk.
> 
> The club is losing good players more than ever before, the coaching turnover is at a higher rate than ever before, their tournaments are not as popular (Surf Cup is not what it used to be), they have more competition in the county than ever before, and oh, there's this little thing you might not have heard about called a sexual harassment lawsuit against current management.
> 
> Meanwhile, Sharks just hired a great soccer guy to work in Surf's backyard and Rebels is placing players into top colleges more than ever.
> 
> But, that's just my perspective from the OC, so what do I know.


Swinging a big bat today bro.  I have to leave for a few hours.  Three is better then 1 in San Diego.  I actually think 4 is better then 3, MOO.  Let Carlsbad City in as well.  Sad Diego County is amazing and needs four.  I 100% believe girls need to be on the field and not feel blackballed or worse for making a change for the health of a dd.  That's what happens when their is only 1 and that one has the goods.  Peace to all of you and make it a great day.  Let freedom ring loud and true for EVERYONE!!!


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## Emma

oh canada said:


> must be a Surf parent.  Noted.  You're making my point for me.  It's all about winning tournaments for you and your ilk.
> 
> The club is losing good players more than ever before, the coaching turnover is at a higher rate than ever before, their tournaments are not as popular (Surf Cup is not what it used to be), they have more competition in the county than ever before, and oh, there's this little thing you might not have heard about called a sexual harassment lawsuit against current management.
> 
> Meanwhile, Sharks just hired a great soccer guy to work in Surf's backyard and Rebels is placing players into top colleges more than ever.
> 
> But, that's just my perspective from the OC, so what do I know.


I'm routing for Sharks and Rebels to elevate their game but I'm not sure this is very accurate.  Rebels is placing players in top colleges?  Rebels has always placed players in colleges but top colleges is a stretch.  I need a few examples to be convinced.  I heard they're losing their top players to Surf.  If Albion had been given ECNL, Surf would have had tough, but with MW gone from Albion and with GA's extensive traveling for league games, it's going to be tough for the girl's program to compete.


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## Emma

Carlsbad7 said:


> Why do you assume MW will be involved with ECNL teams?
> 
> At this point the only known item is what MW will be a Girls DOC at Sharks. He could be DOC for all of the Girls teams, he could be the DOC of just ECNL teams, he could also be the DOC of just the younger not yet ECNL teams.
> 
> All eyes are on Sharks leadership right now. They have the opportunity to turn this into a huge win. They also have the opportunity to make it a huge loss. (By sidelining MW + not providing the environment to be successful)
> 
> What I'm curious to see is what coaches stay, leave, and are brought on over the next 6 months. This more than anything will determine how Sharks recruitment will go for next season.


The guess is a logical guess based on Shark's needs.  They have a very strong rec program and their younger teams are generally very good but then they start losing their players without attracting new ones because older ages aren't promising.  Their immediate needs is ECNL teams as they are year over year at the bottom quarter of league at every age group.  If they can improve their ECNL teams, they can retain more players and recruit more.  MW is a great coach and he will have to figure out how to balance his director responsibilities with coaching some ECNL teams to turn the program around.  MW's greatest asset is his coaching ability and he'll have to use it where it matters, the ECNL teams.  Shannon should get MW an assistant to help with the director role and have him coach with a few assistant coaches to learn from him.


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## Goforgoal

My admittedly second hand, and as such uninformed understanding of things, is that MW will oversee the entire girls program, not just ECNL, and has essentially been given carte blanche in making decisions from top to bottom. From what I've seen of him, he's proactive and thoughtful, and works hard to improve his teams and playing environment. I think Sharks learned that you can't just slap 4 letters on your club and team names and have parents and players flock to your program. You have to work. You have to recruit. You have to get your hands dirty. You have to sell your program on social media and through reputable coach hires. You have to get parents talking about your program again. You have to convince potential recruits that your program is on an upward trajectory, and that more, better players will inevitably follow to strengthen existing rosters. ECNL being the top dog again will make all of this easier, but it still takes effort, personality and passion. MW has his work cut out for him, but if anyone can pull it off it's him.

Things are not going to change overnight of course, but I'm excited to see how it plays out over the next couple of years.


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## SoccerSanDiego

IMO, player pools across all levels are great.. kids get real opportunities to move up... a once a year evaluation with things never really changing is ridiculous...I believe in the Euro youth leagues kids can move up or down weekly based on performance...should be the same here...too many entrenched kids, they should be competing regularly to play at the best levels.  If parents really want their kids to be the best, they should support player pools as it pushes them to excell.




Carlsbad7 said:


> Next season Surf is going to implement player pools. What will likely happen is 3-5 of the "best of the best of the best" will get a golden ticket A team guarantee + likely scholarship. The rest of the players will will either be in the player pool that can play A or B teams or they'll be designated B team only. From a Club perspective player pools makes a lot of sense. If certain players aren't working out on the A team you can shift them off and bring in initially tagged B team players. From a parent perspective player pools doesn't make sense when you're paying 5K+ for soccer fees.
> 
> This is where Sharks come in. Surf and Sharks are right next to each other and both play in ECNL. As long as the players and coaches are decent Sharks might be the way to go. Players that are average on Surf will be superstars at Sharks. If you're trying to appeal to college recruiters it might make more sense to be on the field vs on the bench.


----------



## Carlsbad7

SoccerSanDiego said:


> IMO, player pools across all levels are great.. kids get real opportunities to move up... a once a year evaluation with things never really changing is ridiculous...I believe in the Euro youth leagues kids can move up or down weekly based on performance...should be the same here...too many entrenched kids, they should be competing regularly to play at the best levels.  If parents really want their kids to be the best, they should support player pools as it pushes them to excell.


I don't disagree + if all players were scholarship expectation would be player pools.

However if you are a parent of a kid that doesn't have a scholarship and expected to pay 5k to play on a team where your kid may or may not play week in week out other options may become appealing.


----------



## SoccerSanDiego

Carlsbad7 said:


> I don't disagree + if all players were scholarship expectation would be player pools.
> 
> However if you are a parent of a kid that doesn't have a scholarship and expected to pay 5k to play on a team where your kid may or may not play week in week out other options may become appealing.


Agreed, however, nothing wrong with playing on the B team vs sitting on the A team bench...in fact, I'd prefer that...or switch to a different club that's not as strong...and save money too!

Is Surf implementing this for girls and boys?


----------



## OCSoccerDad3

Carlsbad7 said:


> I don't disagree + if all players were scholarship expectation would be player pools.
> 
> However if you are a parent of a kid that doesn't have a scholarship and expected to pay 5k to play on a team where your kid may or may not play week in week out other options may become appealing.


Agree. If I'm paying, I have a right to know what I'm paying for. Just like I'm not going to hand over $100,000 if you tell me I MIGHT get a Porsche or I MIGHT get a Honda and that I'll just have to trust that you'll give me what's best for me.


----------



## SoccerSanDiego

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> Agree. If I'm paying, I have a right to know what I'm paying for. Just like I'm not going to hand over $100,000 if you tell me I MIGHT get a Porsche or I MIGHT get a Honda and that I'll just have to trust that you'll give me what's best for me.


Your analogy is off...you might be paying for a porsche 911 or a porsche boxster but you'll know going into the season if you're on the bubble for the better model or not...just tell kids to work harder or switch clubs... this is the model in europe...its best for putting out the best soccer teams weekly...we don't need entitled parents/players... "A" team parents of the "bubble" kids will complain while everyone else will be happy for the chance to actually compete for roster spots...and isn't that what sport is all about?!


----------



## Emma

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> Agree. If I'm paying, I have a right to know what I'm paying for. Just like I'm not going to hand over $100,000 if you tell me I MIGHT get a Porsche or I MIGHT get a Honda and that I'll just have to trust that you'll give me what's best for me.


If you're confident your child will be starting every A team game, you've got nothing to worry about. 
If your child is on the cusp between A and B team, it's a good option because they get more playing time and will have a chance to move in and out of situations based on how hard they work or the match up they will be having.  
If your kid is a solid B team player, you don't have anything to worry about either any everything to gain.  She's going to play on the B team unless she decides to take soccer more seriously and starts beating out those A team players. 

The question is, is your child comfortable being pushed to compete for her position every week or does she prefer the comforts of knowing which team she will be on.  Playing time will not be guaranteed regardless is she picks Rebels, Sharks, or Surf.  If she sucks during the game and her sub comes in as a great player, your player won't get minutes either.  If this continues for a few games, your child will not get playing time no matter which club you paid your 5K to.


----------



## crush

Goforgoal said:


> You have to work. You have to recruit. You have to get your hands dirty.


and you have to offer free rides bro to be truly #1.  Come on, if the big dog is offering the best of the best from the rest free soccer, then you need to build a local program and hope the big dog misses out or the team has division and bad chemistry.  Start with being honest with the local players.  Big dog will recruit players from SD County, Riverside County and Orange County and LA.  I hear Vegas too and offer free ride.


----------



## outside!

Emma said:


> If you're confident your child will be starting every A team game, you've got nothing to worry about.
> If your child is on the cusp between A and B team, it's a good option because they get more playing time and will have a chance to move in and out of situations based on how hard they work or the match up they will be having.
> If your kid is a solid B team player, you don't have anything to worry about either any everything to gain.  She's going to play on the B team unless she decides to take soccer more seriously and starts beating out those A team players.
> 
> The question is, is your child comfortable being pushed to compete for her position every week or does she prefer the comforts of knowing which team she will be on.  Playing time will not be guaranteed regardless is she picks Rebels, Sharks, or Surf.  If she sucks during the game and her sub comes in as a great player, your player won't get minutes either.  If this continues for a few games, your child will not get playing time no matter which club you paid your 5K to.


While I support the idea of player pools, it does leave out the issue of politics effecting playing time.


----------



## BIGD

SoccerSanDiego said:


> Your analogy is off...you might be paying for a porsche 911 or a porsche boxster but you'll know going into the season if you're on the bubble for the better model or not...just tell kids to work harder or switch clubs... this is the model in europe...its best for putting out the best soccer teams weekly...we don't need entitled parents/players... "A" team parents of the "bubble" kids will complain while everyone else will be happy for the chance to actually compete for roster spots...and isn't that what sport is all about?!


The Europe model is for profit professional football academies that are fully funded like some of our MLS youth academies are.  I'm not sure it's an equal comparison to our pay to play non-profit youth soccer organizations.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Carlsbad10 said:


> Help me understand how Surf is in decline when the 06's lost in the last minute of the ECNL final (then won Surf Cup), the 07's lost in PK's to go to the semi's of the ECNL playoffs (then won Surf Cup), and the 08's won both Manchester City and Surf Cup.


They are clearly in decline: TWENTY Surf Players Called Up to YNT Camps! – San Diego Surf Soccer Club
This guy clearly doesn't know how to coach: Coach: Andrés Deza – San Diego Surf Soccer Club
Their GK's aren't getting any help from this guy: Coach: Louis Hunt – San Diego Surf Soccer Club
Not to mention what you referenced about the on field success.  Haters are gonna hate.  Are there problems, sure, but success on the field doesn't seem to be one of them.


----------



## what-happened

BIGD said:


> The Europe model is for profit professional football academies that are fully funded like some of our MLS youth academies are.  I'm not sure it's an equal comparison to our pay to play non-profit youth soccer organizations.


It's not equal.  Pay to play will disrupt the player pool approach.  No one wants to pay the $$ and be "relegated" to the lower team.  There is hardly a parent in this country who is shelling out the money, their time, and their stress to play who will willingly go along with player pools - unless it's free of charge.


----------



## crush

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> They are clearly in decline: TWENTY Surf Players Called Up to YNT Camps! – San Diego Surf Soccer Club
> This guy clearly doesn't know how to coach: Coach: Andrés Deza – San Diego Surf Soccer Club
> Their GK's aren't getting any help from this guy: Coach: Louis Hunt – San Diego Surf Soccer Club
> Not to mention what you referenced about the on field success.  Haters are gonna hate.  Are there problems, sure, but success on the field doesn't seem to be one of them.


Virtual call ups count?  ID Centers?  I'm confused but super proud of all the players.  Deza is the real deal.


----------



## SoccerSanDiego

Point taken on Euro being fee free.   However, you have to pay the $$ in US to play regardless... whether its at Surf or elsewhere...it will likely be less $ elsewhere...I don't understand the issue:  if you don't make one of the prime A team spots go elsewhere...and save money too.  If Surf implements pool play, I bet other clubs do the same...it's best for competition...not the best for parents who want guaranteed roster spots...a whole lot can change in a year of 10 or 11 year old growth or lack thereof...why not field the best?!



what-happened said:


> It's not equal.  Pay to play will disrupt the player pool approach.  No one wants to pay the $$ and be "relegated" to the lower team.  There is hardly a parent in this country who is shelling out the money, their time, and their stress to play who will willingly go along with player pools - unless it's free of charge.


----------



## BIGD

Emma said:


> If you're confident your child will be starting every A team game, you've got nothing to worry about.
> If your child is on the cusp between A and B team, it's a good option because they get more playing time and will have a chance to move in and out of situations based on how hard they work or the match up they will be having.
> If your kid is a solid B team player, you don't have anything to worry about either any everything to gain.  She's going to play on the B team unless she decides to take soccer more seriously and starts beating out those A team players.
> 
> The question is, is your child comfortable being pushed to compete for her position every week or does she prefer the comforts of knowing which team she will be on.  Playing time will not be guaranteed regardless is she picks Rebels, Sharks, or Surf.  If she sucks during the game and her sub comes in as a great player, your player won't get minutes either.  If this continues for a few games, your child will not get playing time no matter which club you paid your 5K to.


I have so many thoughts and questions about this from my own experiences.  With the exception of the obvious skilled smart exceptional player, the decision on who is A team and who is B team can change with so many variables.  Coach preference of players (some prefer smart and tactical, some prefer aggressive and big, some value speed over everything, some value team players over selfish players, etc.), coach style of play ([possession, direct, win at all cost, cheat), other level of players on B team, short term approach vs. long term development, goals of the club, culture of the club, politics. The point being the decision is largely subjective and two different coaches would potentially make different decisions.  Not to mention that on the boys side, there is a whole physical development issue where the smartest tactical player at 11 struggles from 12-15 and then rebounds at 16 once they hit puberty.  Maybe they are okay playing on the B team for those years but in a lot of clubs, the B team is extremely far off from the A team, like a rec team compared to the mentality and commitment of the A team. 

70% of kids stop playing sports at age 13.  Why does that happen?  Is that good for the youth in our communities?  And on that same note, what is really the mission of the non-profit youth soccer organization?  Is it to line the pockets of the DOC's by creating winning teams to expand their national brand while they treat our kids like commodities?  And shouldn't the responsibility of the coach be to get all their players to improve?   These aren't fully funded professional academies right?  This is local non profit pay to play competitive youth soccer? 

I love competitive sports, especially for the character building, but it should still be youth centered, and we've just veered too far to the side of serving the adults in my opinion.


----------



## Carlsbad7

Theres another issue with pool play for youth soccer that's not being discussed. What happens after you sign a commitment to a college. Do you keep playing at 110% week in/out risking injury for a place on a team that no longer matters? I suppose the flip side to the pool play coin is after committing you could just play on the B team just for fun + give others a chance to get noticed.


----------



## SoccerSanDiego

Carlsbad7 said:


> Theres another issue with pool play for youth soccer that's not being discussed. What happens after you sign a commitment to a college. Do you keep playing at 110% week in/out risking injury for a place on a team that no longer matters? I suppose the flip side to the pool play coin is after committing you could just play on the B team just for fun + give others a chance to get noticed.


Don't assume its just A and B...don't perform and you could be on the C team and vice versa...fixes attitude problems real fast!


----------



## Carlsbad7

SoccerSanDiego said:


> Don't assume its just A and B...don't perform and you could be on the C team and vice versa...fixes attitude problems real fast!


If the player has already committed to a college what would dropping them to a "C" team do? If anything a move like that would make the club look bad and the player would leave with a negative perception.

Also with ECNL + ECRL + the pool play Surf intends to deploy you cant drop players to the C team.


----------



## soccermail2020

Pool play teams suck. Period. You make a commitment to a team for the season, pay the large fee, and the team/coach should make an equal commitment to the player for the season. Invest in the development of a player that you see has potential. Otherwise you aren’t a coach, you are only a manager. You are only managing the talent and not developing shit. This is youth sports, not MLS. Teach, coach and grow US youth players. The kids don’t care about the name on their jersey or the letters after the team name, the parents sitting around eating wings and drinking beer during practice make it about that with their stupid egos.


----------



## SoccerSanDiego

Carlsbad7 said:


> If the player has already committed to a college what would dropping them to a "C" team do? If anything a move like that would make the club look bad and the player would leave with a negative perception.
> 
> Also with ECNL + ECRL + the pool play Surf intends to deploy you cant drop players to the C team.


It applies to all age groups...and pool play means that team status can change weekly


----------



## crush

soccermail2020 said:


> Pool play teams suck. Period. You make a commitment to a team for the season, pay the large fee, and the team/coach should make an equal commitment to the player for the season. Invest in the development of a player that you see has potential. Otherwise you aren’t a coach, you are only a manager. You are only managing the talent and not developing shit. This is youth sports, not MLS. Teach, coach and grow US youth players. The kids don’t care about the name on their jersey or the letters after the team name, the parents sitting around *eating wings and drinking beer during practice make it about that with their stupid egos.*


----------



## BIGD

soccermail2020 said:


> Pool play teams suck. Period. You make a commitment to a team for the season, pay the large fee, and the team/coach should make an equal commitment to the player for the season. Invest in the development of a player that you see has potential. Otherwise you aren’t a coach, you are only a manager. You are only managing the talent and not developing shit. This is youth sports, not MLS. Teach, coach and grow US youth players. The kids don’t care about the name on their jersey or the letters after the team name, the parents sitting around eating wings and drinking beer during practice make it about that with their stupid egos.


This is exactly right, these clubs have managers more than they do coaches.  Thank you for articulating it better and in less words than I did.


----------



## SoccerSanDiego

soccermail2020 said:


> Pool play teams suck. Period. You make a commitment to a team for the season, pay the large fee, and the team/coach should make an equal commitment to the player for the season. Invest in the development of a player that you see has potential. Otherwise you aren’t a coach, you are only a manager. You are only managing the talent and not developing shit. This is youth sports, not MLS. Teach, coach and grow US youth players. The kids don’t care about the name on their jersey or the letters after the team name, the parents sitting around eating wings and drinking beer during practice make it about that with their stupid egos.


I'd argue that making it more competitive with pool play makes US soccer more competitive...dont like the pressure then play at a lower level.  Also, the coaches see all the players all the time as they cross train and can choose the best every week and not just once a year in a free for all tryout...


----------



## crush

Most girls love the team concept and then try and win as a team, not as a pool of players.  That ain;t no team.  My dd has a friend that did pool play and it sucked.  Coach basically tells the girls he will decide out of the 40 sum girls who is A worthy team and who is B worthy team for that week only. I hate it personally too, especially at the youngers.  As a coach I want to build a team of 18-20 ((20 for U19 and 18 for all the rest)) players that are 100% committed to winning it all that season.  One year only commitment.  The politicking that goes on* "Behind Closed Doors"* is hard to match for some parents to get their kid on a youth soccer team.  The sky is the limit....


----------



## SoccerSanDiego

crush said:


> Most girls love the team concept and then try and win as a team, not as a pool of players.  That ain;t no team.  My dd has a friend that did pool play and it sucked.  Coach basically tells the girls he will decide out of the 40 sum girls who is A worthy team and who is B worthy team for that week only. I hate it personally too, especially at the youngers.  As a coach I want to build a team of 18-20 ((20 for U19 and 18 for all the rest)) players that are 100% committed to winning it all that season.  One year only commitment.  The politicking that goes on* "Behind Closed Doors"* is hard to match for some parents to get their kid on a youth soccer team.  The sky is the limit....


What they love and what creates the best winning teams may be 2 different things...


----------



## crush

SoccerSanDiego said:


> What they love and what creates the best winning teams may be 2 different things...


Just curious, how many pool team championships have you been a part of?  Any team championships for dd?


----------



## what-happened

SoccerSanDiego said:


> Point taken on Euro being fee free.   However, you have to pay the $$ in US to play regardless... whether its at Surf or elsewhere...it will likely be less $ elsewhere...I don't understand the issue:  if you don't make one of the prime A team spots go elsewhere...and save money too.  *If Surf implements pool play, I bet other clubs do the same.*..it's best for competition...not the best for parents who want guaranteed roster spots...a whole lot can change in a year of 10 or 11 year old growth or lack thereof...why not field the best?!


Respectfully disagree.  If/when Surf implements pool play, it may very well drive talent to other clubs.  It's the nature of the beast.  Many parents won't operate well in a week to week scenario.  Way to much planning goes into getting your DD to practices, games, etc.  All of it cost money.  The parents are what's keeping the Surf train rolling (and other club's train rolling).  

I like the idea of pool play - will not work in a pay to play scenario.  The expectation of a return on your investment is etched in everyone's brain.  We had an MLS club in AZ implement somewhat of a pool play scenario last season.  Didn't go over well at all - weekly trainwreck.  Maybe they didn't implement it well, maybe the club didn't articulate the pros over the cons...


----------



## baxwOC1982

You all just don’t have a real clue what Surf is doing for “pool play” which it isn’t really true pool play.  so it’s laughable all the conjecture and complaining.  Every parent who signed up knows exactly what it means and how it’s implemented and exactly where their DD stands going into the season with zero promises and known possibilities that movement can happen and yet they have more signed up for their ECNL/ECRL squads this season and more showing up now each practice to be looked at.  If your DD wants to play for Surf you bring her and she has to compete, period.  If she’s good enough for ECNL squad then there is a spot. The ECRL teams are being strengthened through this as well and some who are moving on just know the path to ECNL squad may be harder now so seeking easier, smaller pastures to play and that’s fine. Good for competition all over.  Most of this spitting in the wind about this are the typical Surf haters no matter the process or topic so I’m sure another rant on some other wrong thing will pop up soon. White noise.


----------



## SoccerSanDiego

what-happened said:


> Respectfully disagree.  If/when Surf implements pool play, it may very well drive talent to other clubs.  It's the nature of the beast.  Many parents won't operate well in a week to week scenario.  Way to much planning goes into getting your DD to practices, games, etc.  All of it cost money.  The parents are what's keeping the Surf train rolling (and other club's train rolling).
> 
> I like the idea of pool play - will not work in a pay to play scenario.  The expectation of a return on your investment is etched in everyone's brain.  We had an MLS club in AZ implement somewhat of a pool play scenario last season.  Didn't go over well at all - weekly trainwreck.  Maybe they didn't implement it well, maybe the club didn't articulate the pros over the cons...


I don't understand the schedule issue...the practices happen at the same time (group trainings) so its simplified...game schedules fluctuate all the time anyway, look at tournaments, we only know a week ahead of time typically...I know Surf is already implementing group practices under Andres Deza...its not a big deal for those parents, the kids just happen to practice in bigger groups....one other huge benefit to pool play is it will help to reduce the politicking by parents, with several coaches involved in decision making, favoritism is reduced.


----------



## SoccerSanDiego

baxwOC1982 said:


> You all just don’t have a real clue what Surf is doing for “pool play” which it isn’t really true pool play.  so it’s laughable all the conjecture and complaining.  Every parent who signed up knows exactly what it means and how it’s implemented and exactly where their DD stands going into the season with zero promises and known possibilities that movement can happen and yet they have more signed up for their ECNL/ECRL squads this season and more showing up now each practice to be looked at.  If your DD wants to play for Surf you bring her and she has to compete, period.  If she’s good enough for ECNL squad then there is a spot. The ECRL teams are being strengthened through this as well and some who are moving on just know the path to ECNL squad may be harder now so seeking easier, smaller pastures to play and that’s fine. Good for competition all over.  Most of this spitting in the wind about this are the typical Surf haters no matter the process or topic so I’m sure another rant on some other wrong thing will pop up soon. White noise.


Surf hasn't implemented all pool play facets yet...


----------



## what-happened

SoccerSanDiego said:


> I don't understand the schedule issue...the practices happen at the same time (group trainings) so its simplified...game schedules fluctuate all the time anyway, look at tournaments, we only know a week ahead of time typically...I know Surf is already implementing group practices under Andres Deza...its not a big deal for those parents, the kids just happen to practice in bigger groups....one other huge benefit to pool play is it will help to reduce the politicking by parents, with several coaches involved in decision making, favoritism is reduced.


I hope pool play works for them...maybe they will be the gold standard, the new thing.  Maybe parents all of a sudden become selfless and don't care about the dollars they spend and the expectation where and how much  their DD plays.  Pool play can be a very good thing.  It's a good thing in Europe, where pay to play doesn't exist.

I have my reservations about it.   I don't have a horse in the race and I don't hate surf.  We will see what happens.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn

I don't have a horse in this race and am genuinely curious as to how player pools will pan out.  If that golden-ticket number is something like 5 players per age group that's a tough pill to swallow for those players that are #6 - 10 where the difference in talent between player #7 (could be booted down to team B) and player #5 (holds golden ticket) is razor thin.  I would guess that the magic number for players guaranteed A team roster spot at all times would be a bit higher?  Maybe 10?


----------



## what-happened

baxwOC1982 said:


> You all just don’t have a real clue what Surf is doing for “pool play” which it isn’t really true pool play.  so it’s laughable all the conjecture and complaining.  Every parent who signed up knows exactly what it means and how it’s implemented and exactly where their DD stands going into the season with zero promises and known possibilities that movement can happen and yet they have more signed up for their ECNL/ECRL squads this season and more showing up now each practice to be looked at.  If your DD wants to play for Surf you bring her and she has to compete, period.  If she’s good enough for ECNL squad then there is a spot. The ECRL teams are being strengthened through this as well and some who are moving on just know the path to ECNL squad may be harder now so seeking easier, smaller pastures to play and that’s fine. Good for competition all over.  Most of this spitting in the wind about this are the typical Surf haters no matter the process or topic so I’m sure another rant on some other wrong thing will pop up soon. White noise.


Or maybe it's opinion, discussion, discourse...all of those things that are common and expected on a youth soccer forum.  Of course there are surf haters.  They've rubbed people the wrong way, for reasons all their own and they deserve some of the shade that cast their way.  

They are a business, free to do what they think is right and to make money.


----------



## Sombitch

Re


Emma said:


> I'm routing for Sharks and Rebels to elevate their game but I'm not sure this is very accurate.  Rebels is placing players in top colleges?  Rebels has always placed players in colleges but top colleges is a stretch.  I need a few examples to be convinced.  I heard they're losing their top players to Surf.  If Albion had been given ECNL, Surf would have had tough, but with MW gone from Albion and with GA's extensive traveling for league games, it's going to be tough for the girl's program to compete.


How is Yale for a top school? Gonzaga ? UCI? UCSB? Vassar?

What is your definition of top?
Rebels is doing just fine from a college standpoint


----------



## what-happened

Sombitch said:


> Re
> 
> 
> How is Yale for a top school? Gonzaga ? UCI? UCSB? Vassar?
> 
> What is your definition of top?
> Rebels is doing just fine from a college standpoint


Top is whatever your DD thinks is top.  Pretty good list you have there.


----------



## GT45

The problem I see with pool play is the joy of team camraderie that a lot of girls play for. Yes, they want to compete, but they want to compete with a group of people they grow close to. Changing rosters regularly does not allow for that same level of team bonding.


----------



## crush

Sombitch said:


> Re
> 
> 
> How is Yale for a top school? Gonzaga ? UCI? UCSB? Vassar?
> 
> What is your definition of top?
> Rebels is doing just fine from a college standpoint


I know what I thought the "top" pro teams were when my dd was 7th and 8th grade.....lol.  Oh my, to look back at my arrogance is hard to do but one I must. My pride was in full dad pride back then.  I know what I was told "Top" schools were as well and boy I was 100% wrong.  I had to lose it all to see my pride, let me tell you.  Hey, on a lighter note, I want to apologize publicly to you for saying some stuff that was not all accurate.  I got gossip BS from someone and I aired it out here.  I know you know the truth on why my dd made the move   Please forgive me if you can.  I know you to be A GREAT DAD and I wish you nothing the best.


----------



## BIGD

what-happened said:


> They are a business, free to do what they think is right and to make money.


A type of business yes, and yes to make money but as a non-profit their primary mission and purpose are to further a social cause and provide a public benefit.


----------



## Emma

BIGD said:


> I have so many thoughts and questions about this from my own experiences.  With the exception of the obvious skilled smart exceptional player, the decision on who is A team and who is B team can change with so many variables.  Coach preference of players (some prefer smart and tactical, some prefer aggressive and big, some value speed over everything, some value team players over selfish players, etc.), coach style of play ([possession, direct, win at all cost, cheat), other level of players on B team, short term approach vs. long term development, goals of the club, culture of the club, politics. The point being the decision is largely subjective and two different coaches would potentially make different decisions.  Not to mention that on the boys side, there is a whole physical development issue where the smartest tactical player at 11 struggles from 12-15 and then rebounds at 16 once they hit puberty.  Maybe they are okay playing on the B team for those years but in a lot of clubs, the B team is extremely far off from the A team, like a rec team compared to the mentality and commitment of the A team.
> 
> 70% of kids stop playing sports at age 13.  Why does that happen?  Is that good for the youth in our communities?  And on that same note, what is really the mission of the non-profit youth soccer organization?  Is it to line the pockets of the DOC's by creating winning teams to expand their national brand while they treat our kids like commodities?  And shouldn't the responsibility of the coach be to get all their players to improve?   These aren't fully funded professional academies right?  This is local non profit pay to play competitive youth soccer?
> 
> I love competitive sports, especially for the character building, but it should still be youth centered, and we've just veered too far to the side of serving the adults in my opinion.


My son would probably not want to be part of pool play because he enjoys the camaraderie and balances it with competition in the soccer environment.  My daughter on the other hand is a go getter with a competitive soccer first and friendship second priority for soccer teams.  With most competitive ECNL girls' soccer teams, the mentality of the girls are generally consistent with my daughter as they get older.  When they were younger, she was rare but she's now amongst like minded peers.  If we are looking to use ECNL as the college scouting and training our daughters for their future college days, the pool play system isn't bad bc colleges have large rosters and pushes them to play for their position every week. It's earned, not given because we wrote a check.  It also doubles up their potential group of friends at practices while reducing cliques or gives them more clique choices.

As for bad coaches and parent influences, I don't think any system is going to stop this.  It's been a negative impact in regular team environments.  The only way to stop bad coaches is to get rid of them.  The only way to get rid of negative parent influence is to let them go when they threaten to go regardless of how great their player is.  Let them drive the addition hour or two each day to practice. 

Most recruiting is now very short, 10-11th grade, two years.  I support the pool play to help the B team girls get an opportunity because leaving them in the B team environment for a year is 50% of their recruitment time period.  

It's a win win situation in a competitive environment such as SURF.  I wouldn't suggest Sharks or Rebels or Albion do it because their pool of players are not very deep.  But at Surf, they have strong ECRL teams that can push their ECNL girls and be given an opportunity to move up if they earn it.


----------



## Carlsbad7

Emma said:


> My son would probably not want to be part of pool play because he enjoys the camaraderie and balances it with competition in the soccer environment.  My daughter on the other hand is a go getter with a competitive soccer first and friendship second priority for soccer teams.  With most competitive ECNL girls' soccer teams, the mentality of the girls are generally consistent with my daughter as they get older.  When they were younger, she was rare but she's now amongst like minded peers.  If we are looking to use ECNL as the college scouting and training our daughters for their future college days, the pool play system isn't bad bc colleges have large rosters and pushes them to play for their position every week. It's earned, not given because we wrote a check.  It also doubles up their potential group of friends at practices while reducing cliques or gives them more clique choices.
> 
> As for bad coaches and parent influences, I don't think any system is going to stop this.  It's been a negative impact in regular team environments.  The only way to stop bad coaches is to get rid of them.  The only way to get rid of negative parent influence is to let them go when they threaten to go regardless of how great their player is.  Let them drive the addition hour or two each day to practice.
> 
> Most recruiting is now very short, 10-11th grade, two years.  I support the pool play to help the B team girls get an opportunity because leaving them in the B team environment for a year is 50% of their recruitment time period.
> 
> It's a win win situation in a competitive environment such as SURF.  I wouldn't suggest Sharks or Rebels or Albion do it because their pool of players are not very deep.  But at Surf, they have strong ECRL teams that can push their ECNL girls and be given an opportunity to move up if they earn it.


One year of riding pine + not getting playing time on the A team and players will be looking for an exit.

This is where Sharks ECNL teams will pick up the peices and provide opportunities.

People can talk all they want about the benefits of Pool Play. You also need to consider the negatives. What I mean is through pool play the best of the best will rise to the top. However to keep pool play fresh the worst of the worst need to be filtered out to keep players moving around.


----------



## crush

Emma said:


> *My daughter on the other hand is a go getter with a competitive soccer first and friendship second priority for soccer teams.  * * But at Surf*, *they have strong ECRL teams that can push their ECNL girls*


My dd is the opposite but it makes for a fun debate.  I think the "go getter" for yourself first over friendship & teammates ((care for others before yourself)) is what sucks about soccer these days but trust me, I understand that mentality all too well.  I dont think the go getter attitude will help the team win championship.  The best college teams that win win by putting team first, not the one go getter.  Good luck to your player in college.


----------



## Emma

Carlsbad7 said:


> One year of riding pine + not getting playing time on the A team and players will be looking for an exit.
> 
> This is where Sharks ECNL teams will pick up the peices and provide opportunities.
> 
> People can talk all they want about the benefits of Pool Play. You also need to consider the negatives. What I mean is through pool play the best of the best will rise to the top. However to keep pool play fresh the worst of the worst need to be filtered out to keep players moving around.


I agree, it's not all postives with pool play and glad to see the arguments on both sides being raised.  If a player is not getting play time, they should move on.  I would say this to any player on any team, pool play or not.  If you are not getting play time, move on unless your are their for social reasons.

I think pool play can be done successfully if players are all given opportunities to shine and be exposed to college scouts at the right time.  If Surf puts in an ECRL or ECNL bench player who they know will be a good matchup for a particular ECNL opponent in front of college scouts, and the player shines in front of scouts, then pool play will have been used effectively. 

I'd like to see how Surf handles pool play and it's a different option in San Diego.  You are probably correct, Sharks and Rebels may end up benefitting from this as some players/parents might not like it but Surf will be able to attract very competitive players who want to compete for their position week in and week out.  There are girls who like the pool play because they want to see the pressure on more and thrive under more pressure.


----------



## MacDre

Emma said:


> My son would probably not want to be part of pool play because he enjoys the camaraderie and balances it with competition in the soccer environment.  My daughter on the other hand is a go getter with a competitive soccer first and friendship second priority for soccer teams.  With most competitive ECNL girls' soccer teams, the mentality of the girls are generally consistent with my daughter as they get older.  When they were younger, she was rare but she's now amongst like minded peers.  If we are looking to use ECNL as the college scouting and training our daughters for their future college days, the pool play system isn't bad bc colleges have large rosters and pushes them to play for their position every week. It's earned, not given because we wrote a check.  It also doubles up their potential group of friends at practices while reducing cliques or gives them more clique choices.
> 
> As for bad coaches and parent influences, I don't think any system is going to stop this.  It's been a negative impact in regular team environments.  The only way to stop bad coaches is to get rid of them.  The only way to get rid of negative parent influence is to let them go when they threaten to go regardless of how great their player is.  Let them drive the addition hour or two each day to practice.
> 
> Most recruiting is now very short, 10-11th grade, two years.  I support the pool play to help the B team girls get an opportunity because leaving them in the B team environment for a year is 50% of their recruitment time period.
> 
> It's a win win situation in a competitive environment such as SURF.  I wouldn't suggest Sharks or Rebels or Albion do it because their pool of players are not very deep.  But at Surf, they have strong ECRL teams that can push their ECNL girls and be given an opportunity to move up if they earn it.


I have been thinking about pool play lately and maybe even signing my kid up.  I have had great conversations with Deza and Piper.  However, after our talk I found an article from US Soccer that kinda has me “stuck on stupid” regarding pool play.

In short, USSF takes the position that development is not about how a player is currently performing but about how good they can be in the future.  So under pool play, it’s very possible to have a player with a very high performance ceiling benched and missing development because they are in a slump for a player that is currently performing better with a lower ceiling...why is this a good thing or am I missing something?









						Guiding Principle 1. Talent can be developed in the "right" environment
					

A player always develops in and with his or her environment. There is a clear relationship between the players (performance) characteristics and the environment.




					www.linkedin.com


----------



## Eagle33

soccermail2020 said:


> Pool play teams suck. Period. You make a commitment to a team for the season, pay the large fee, and the team/coach should make an equal commitment to the player for the season. Invest in the development of a player that you see has potential. Otherwise you aren’t a coach, you are only a manager. You are only managing the talent and not developing shit. This is youth sports, not MLS. Teach, coach and grow US youth players. The kids don’t care about the name on their jersey or the letters after the team name, the parents sitting around eating wings and drinking beer during practice make it about that with their stupid egos.


You are definitely onto something here. This has been happening for years in big name clubs. 
A coach recruit players that someone else was actually coaching and just managing the talent pool. Team wins and from outside it looks like a coach doing great job coaching, because team playing great and winning. This brings more players (not necessarily the talent) into the club.
On the other note, MW is a great coach and a person and just finished his A license as well. I wish him best of luck in DOC position.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Eagle33 said:


> You are definitely onto something here. This has been happening for years in big name clubs.
> A coach recruit players that someone else was actually coaching and just managing the talent pool. Team wins and from outside it looks like a coach doing great job coaching, because team playing great and winning. This brings more players (not necessarily the talent) into the club.
> On the other note, MW is a great coach and a person and just finished his A license as well. I wish him best of luck in DOC position.


I have watched MW coach since my youngest was U8 (U16 now). Use to set up scrimmages with him when he was at Newport Mesa. Each time we faced them his team played connecting soccer much better than the previous time. When he moved to Albion he had developed that 06 team into a great side. He just doesn't manage talent alone or draw it, but develops.


----------



## Emma

MacDre said:


> I have been thinking about pool play lately and maybe even signing my kid up.  I have had great conversations with Deza and Piper.  However, after our talk I found an article from US Soccer that kinda has me “stuck on stupid” regarding pool play.
> 
> In short, USSF takes the position that development is not about how a player is currently performing but about how good they can be in the future.  So under pool play, it’s very possible to have a player with a very high performance ceiling benched and missing development because they are in a slump for a player that is currently performing better with a lower ceiling...why is this a good thing or am I missing something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guiding Principle 1. Talent can be developed in the "right" environment
> 
> 
> A player always develops in and with his or her environment. There is a clear relationship between the players (performance) characteristics and the environment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.linkedin.com


When a player is in a slump, theoretically, in pool play, the player should be playing in the ECRL team games because at their current state, the player isn't up to par to play the ECNL opponents. So instead of sitting on the ECNL bench while they are in a slump, they can still be competing on game day at ECRL games.  Once the player shows she is out her of slump, she will be chosen to be back in ECNL games.


----------



## crush

Emma said:


> *When a player is in a slump, theoretically, in pool play, the player should be playing in the ECRL team games because at their current state, the player isn't up to par to play the ECNL opponents. *


Slump or just having a tough week is where mental and emotional BS can come into play from "some" coaches who have no clue about females at around 13-18 years of age.  After much thought, I hate pool play for girls except for the one's who want soccer 24/7 and are truly all in and will be in camps and pools all the time to try and make the YNT.  Individual soccer for 99% of the girls is not soccer, Moo!.  The rest should learn how to play on a team and be friends and learn how to pass and go and be best friends.  Pool play soccer is no bueno, Mugir!!


----------



## BIGD

Emma said:


> If we are looking to use ECNL as the college scouting and training our daughters for their future college days,


And this is ultimately the root cause of the issues in club soccer.  Parents and players participating with the objective to secure a financial result and personal gain.  Not saying it’s necessarily right or wrong, but it’s drastically changed the youth sports landscape.  It’s why the quality team experience has been replaced with individuals playing for personal gain and is a major contributor to the politics. 

I think pool play effectiveness has everything to do with the intent and how it’s managed.  If the intent is to create a fiercly dog eat dog competitive environment to improve players I think that will ultimately fail and be an awful experience. If the intent is to reach more players and help them improve, it could be beneficial.  The key will be the communication.  If the coaches have very clear   communication and establish trust with the players AND the parents, it could go well.  Based on my experience, even the best coaches would have trouble with this task.


----------



## Emma

BIGD said:


> And this is ultimately the root cause of the issues in club soccer.  Parents and players participating with the objective to secure a financial result and personal gain.  Not saying it’s necessarily right or wrong, but it’s drastically changed the youth sports landscape.  It’s why the quality team experience has been replaced with individuals playing for personal gain and is a major contributor to the politics.
> 
> I think pool play effectiveness has everything to do with the intent and how it’s managed.  If the intent is to create a fiercly dog eat dog competitive environment to improve players I think that will ultimately fail and be an awful experience. If the intent is to reach more players and help them improve, it could be beneficial.  The key will be the communication.  If the coaches have very clear   communication and establish trust with the players AND the parents, it could go well.  Based on my experience, even the best coaches would have trouble with this task.


When ECNL broke off from local leagues and established themselves as a training ground for elite players, it created an environment where competition is above team camaraderie.  It works for some kids and they really enjoy it.  I don't think it's the root cause of club soccer problems as non ECNL teams should remain local and retain local identities.  Stay local and play local always worked for our son and works a lot better for us as a family.  We don't do it for financial reasons or personal gains, we do it because our daughter enjoys playing soccer with very competitive and driven girls.  If she ends up getting a scholarship or getting into a better academic school because of it, great.  We aren't unrealistic parents focusing on soccer.  School, work and volunteer activities are her priorities.

We hate the politics in soccer when parents or relatives get involved with threats or carrots.  The root problem in club soccer is unrealistic/misguided parents and Clubs taking advantage of this to profit.    

Through the years, it has been fun to see what MW has been able to do with all his teams, starting with the 06s.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

MacDre said:


> I have been thinking about pool play lately and maybe even signing my kid up.  I have had great conversations with Deza and Piper.  However, after our talk I found an article from US Soccer that kinda has me “stuck on stupid” regarding pool play.
> 
> In short, USSF takes the position that development is not about how a player is currently performing but about how good they can be in the future.  So under pool play, it’s very possible to have a player with a very high performance ceiling benched and missing development because they are in a slump for a player that is currently performing better with a lower ceiling...why is this a good thing or am I missing something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guiding Principle 1. Talent can be developed in the "right" environment
> 
> 
> A player always develops in and with his or her environment. There is a clear relationship between the players (performance) characteristics and the environment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.linkedin.com


Is the bulk of development coming from games or the practices?  If practice is where talent is developed, and games are where it is tested, then playing on the ECRL team doesn't hurt the player as the player is training with the "pool" during the week and that is where the development happens.  
Personally I think the "pool" approach is more appropriate at the younger ages.  As the players get into HS then the focus is more on recruiting for college and other factors that motivate players that diminish the value of the "pool."


----------



## SoccerLocker

If your DD wants to play anywhere beyond club, aren't playing pools exactly what's in store for her?  Rosters of ~30 all vying for starting spots.

Anson Dorrance takes it one step further at UNC. Each week players are ranked from 1-30 and it's posted publicly for all to see.

The transfer portal for women's college soccer is incredibly busy each year.  I would guess that most of this is because these DDs haven't ever had to compete for time.  Maybe it's a blessing to have them try it on for size before they commit to playing in college.


----------



## Kicker4Life

crush said:


> My dd is the opposite but it makes for a fun debate.  I think the "go getter" for yourself first over friendship & teammates ((care for others before yourself)) is what sucks about soccer these days but trust me, I understand that mentality all too well.  I dont think the go getter attitude will help the team win championship.  The best college teams that win win by putting team first, not the one go getter.  Good luck to your player in college.


I know I will regret this, but what is the difference between a “go getter” and a player with “ganas” (as you consistently reference)?


----------



## espola

SoccerLocker said:


> If your DD wants to play anywhere beyond club, aren't playing pools exactly what's in store for her?  Rosters of ~30 all vying for starting spots.
> 
> Anson Dorrance takes it one step further at UNC. Each week players are ranked from 1-30 and it's posted publicly for all to see.
> 
> The transfer portal for women's college soccer is incredibly busy each year.  I would guess that most of this is because these DDs haven't ever had to compete for time.  Maybe it's a blessing to have them try it on for size before they commit to playing in college.


Every college player, male or female, eventually realizes that his new teammates were top players in their schools and/or clubs, also.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Kicker4Life said:


> I know I will regret this, but what is the difference between a “go getter” and a player with “ganas” (as you consistently reference)?


Let me try...
go getter=female 
ganas=male


----------



## Technician72

LASTMAN14 said:


> Let me try...
> go getter=female
> ganas=male


Although ganas is applicable to both female and male, it's probably more prevalent with males in sport motivations. Then you have the almost exclusive to males "Huevos" meaning Testicular Fortitude.

I remember my dad telling my girls to play with more "Huevos" when they first started and my oldest telling him, "Yeah grandpa, we don't have those..."


----------



## Emma

crush said:


> My dd is the opposite but it makes for a fun debate.  I think the "go getter" for yourself first over friendship & teammates ((care for others before yourself)) is what sucks about soccer these days but trust me, I understand that mentality all too well.  I dont think the go getter attitude will help the team win championship.  The best college teams that win win by putting team first, not the one go getter.  Good luck to your player in college.


I'm going to try to spin this in the most positive light possible and pretend that you are not calling my child selfish without actually knowing her.  

For my daughter, she wants to excel at soccer and wants teammates who want to excel at soccer too.  She's demanding of her teammates and herself. She's very tough on herself and strives to improve her passing game & IQ as well as her individuals skills.  When a teammate is struggling, she goes out of her way to help them.  What she doesn't want from soccer teammates, is an attitude of trainng complacency  and not trying to win at every game.  

For friendships, she doesn't care if they play soccer well or do anything well as long as their moral compass is in the right direction.


----------



## BIGD

Emma said:


> The root problem in club soccer is unrealistic/misguided parents and Clubs taking advantage of this to profit.


We are in agreement, I was just noting that the focus on the financial and personal gain is part of what drives the behaviors described above.


----------



## BIGD

Emma said:


> When ECNL broke off from local leagues and established themselves as a training ground for elite players, it created an environment where competition is above team camaraderie.


Can you clarify this?  Winning competitions or individual competition is above team camaraderie?  So they don’t practice team first?


----------



## Emma

BIGD said:


> Can you clarify this?  Winning competitions or individual competition is above team camaraderie?  So they don’t practice team first?


ECNL sold their program to pull in elite players from local clubs, not promoting the best teams.   Notice, they don't recruit entire teams who are great and promote them to the ECNL league, they pull indvidual players, breaking up teams.  Play time is not guaranteed on any ECNL team unless they have no subs. 

If you are looking for team leagues, SOCAL league is good and I hope it becomes better than ECNL and MLS NEXT because it has a promotion and relegation system based on teams.


----------



## Emma

BIGD said:


> We are in agreement, I was just noting that the focus on the financial and personal gain is part of what drives the behaviors described above.


I've definitely seen some of this but the bulk have been mostly prideful parents who can't see their daughters playing on a B team or a club that is not "SURF" or "LAFC" or "BLUES" even if the other environments are better for their child's development or well being.  It's Pride then money.


----------



## Emma

crush said:


> Slump or just having a tough week is where mental and emotional BS can come into play from "some" coaches who have no clue about females at around 13-18 years of age.  After much thought, I hate pool play for girls except for the one's who want soccer 24/7 and are truly all in and will be in camps and pools all the time to try and make the YNT.  Individual soccer for 99% of the girls is not soccer, Moo!.  The rest should learn how to play on a team and be friends and learn how to pass and go and be best friends.  Pool play soccer is no bueno, Mugir!!


For those coaches who are playing emotional BS games with girls, they should be replaced and find new jobs in a different field.  Nothing wrong with an honest coach who recognizes a player is not feeling her best and allowing her to build her confidence at a lower level game that week versus forcing her to get killed over and over by a tough opponent or having her sit on the bench and watch people play instead.


----------



## BIGD

Emma said:


> ECNL sold their program to pull in elite players from local clubs, not promoting the best teams.   Notice, they don't recruit entire teams who are great and promote them to the ECNL league, they pull indvidual players, breaking up teams.  Play time is not guaranteed on any ECNL team unless they have no subs.
> 
> If you are looking for team leagues, SOCAL league is good and I hope it becomes better than ECNL and MLS NEXT because it has a promotion and relegation system based on teams.


So ECNL is focused on individual development over winning competitions?  Is there a competitive  league that does guarantee playing time?


----------



## BIGD

Emma said:


> I've definitely seen some of this but the bulk have been mostly prideful parents who can't see their daughters playing on a B team or a club that is not "SURF" or "LAFC" or "BLUES" even if the other environments are better for their child's development or well being.  It's Pride then money.


I would say “status” or “ego” versus pride.


----------



## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> I know *I will regret this*, but what is the* difference between a “go getter” and a player with “ganas” (as you consistently reference)?*


Great question Kicker.  Please forgive me ((again, 7x7x7 times)) for all my short comings   I mean that.  My wife forgives me every day and so does my dd.  These have been trying times for a man like me who others have had to rely on to pay their bills and it's been a pressure cooker that has lasted a lot longer then the15 days I was promised 17 months ago.  I'm doing way better after taking the piece of plywood off my forehead BTW.  I can see now clearly.  "go getter" vs "ganas"=The Same.  It all depends what one is trying to go and get that makes the difference.  My dd is a "go getter" for the championship & team first with friendships and not individual pool championships and get into college. The other type of player is the "go getter" who is more for self first and winning is getting into a college and I see many players "go getter" and "ganas" in that arena as well.  Both players have the "go getter" and "ganas" mindset that makes them a true "go getter."  One "go getter" is not better then the other "go getter" because it's what each individual "go getter" decides is best for them.  One size does not fit all.  I now see all sides of the coin and it helps me be more humble.  This will be a very tough U19 season.  I look forward to getting this old age back together for one last competition.  Good luck to you and your player and I mean that.


----------



## crush

Emma said:


> For those coaches who are playing emotional BS games with girls, they should be replaced and find new jobs in a different field.  Nothing wrong with an honest coach who recognizes a player is not feeling her best and allowing her to build her confidence at a lower level game that week versus forcing her to get killed over and over by a tough opponent or having her sit on the bench and watch people play instead.


What if the player is one of the top players and had a tough week at school or at work?  Do we threaten her with B team language threats?  "hey so and so, your slacking off and look like a B team players."  Not cool at all   I like the Travel Team (Top team) and the Regional Team (Second team). Maybe the TT has 18 solid players and RT has 18 solid players.  Build teamwork at the begginiing of the season with a win it all attitude with the team you got.  You might have players on both teams that could go over and help when the time is needed because of injuries.  I just dont like some of the threats and head trips "some" can use to put mental pressure on the athlete going through a tough time.  Hell, maybe the parents are going through a divorce.  last thing a kid needs to hear is how their slacking off and because of that, B team, now!!!  If your on the "team" then the team and the coach will help the player through the challenging time.  I just dont like this, I just dont.  I'm sorry, really dont like pool play for the girls at the youngers. Mayne u19 and thats it, moo moo moo!!!


----------



## soccer5210

LASTMAN14 said:


> I have watched MW coach since my youngest was U8 (U16 now). Use to set up scrimmages with him when he was at Newport Mesa. Each time we faced them his team played connecting soccer much better than the previous time. When he moved to Albion he had developed that 06 team into a great side. He just doesn't manage talent alone or draw it, but develops.


We were on that Newport Mesa team that he developed. Awesome coach. He will be a huge asset to Sharks.


----------



## LASTMAN14

soccer5210 said:


> We were on that Newport Mesa team that he developed. Awesome coach. He will be a huge asset to Sharks.


That’s awesome!


----------



## MacDre

soccer5210 said:


> We were on that Newport Mesa team that he developed. Awesome coach. He will be a huge asset to Sharks.


Good stuff.  How did he do it?  Special drills? Inspiration/Encouragement?  Specifically, what is it that makes dude so special in your opinion?


----------



## Soccer Pop

Looks like the player movement has started for Sharks getting players. I hear MW'S 09 Albion team left for Sharks and that he also brought 3 Albion coaches with him. Will be interesting too see if his 08 team and some of his 06 National Championship Team from 2019-2020 make the move as well. Looks like a lot of movement might take place before August 31st.


----------



## futboldad1

Soccer Pop said:


> Looks like the player movement has started for Sharks getting players. I hear MW'S 09 Albion team left for Sharks and that he also brought 3 Albion coaches with him. Will be interesting too see if his 08 team and some of his 06 National Championship Team from 2019-2020 make the move as well. Looks like a lot of movement might take place before August 31st.


Interesting…..thanks…… with the 06 I didn’t think there much of that team still left at Albion….?


----------



## FernandoFromNationalCity

futboldad1 said:


> Interesting…..thanks…… with the 06 I didn’t think there much of that team still left at Albion….?


I thought a few of them left to rebels Ecnl


----------



## Goforgoal

futboldad1 said:


> Interesting…..thanks…… with the 06 I didn’t think there much of that team still left at Albion….?


There are some left from the Natty winning team, but I doubt there would be much, if any movement. Jen Lalor coaches that team now and she's excellent.


----------



## what-happened

BIGD said:


> A type of business yes, and yes to make money but as a non-profit their primary mission and purpose are to further a social cause and provide a public benefit.


If only they were as altruistic as you describe.  Surf and others are not the Salvation Army.  They want your money and will go to great lengths to get it.


----------



## LouSag

rainbow_unicorn said:


> I don't have a horse in this race and am genuinely curious as to how player pools will pan out.  If that golden-ticket number is something like 5 players per age group that's a tough pill to swallow for those players that are #6 - 10 where the difference in talent between player #7 (could be booted down to team B) and player #5 (holds golden ticket) is razor thin.  I would guess that the magic number for players guaranteed A team roster spot at all times would be a bit higher?  Maybe 10?


At Surf, it is more like 13-14 core players on the ECNL and 6-8 “floater” players that theoretically move between the A and B teams. Whether you like it or not, this is the future for the girls as they age up to a more competitive level. High school, college and pro teams are all “pool play” so get used to it. Furthermore, at the pro level, there are no age brackets hindering who can be on the team. The best and most prepared players suit up for the match. Deza and staff at Surf are just prepping/preparing these girls for the future. IMO other clubs will follow this template. Has Surf lost a few floater players to other clubs where they can go start on an ECNL team? Yes they have. Yet more and more numbers come out to test themselves and attempt to make the top team. At the same time, the ECRL team strengthens too. Darwinism at its finest. 
Surf, like it’s main So Cal competitors LAFC, Blues, Legends (would-have said Albion 2 years ago) strives to be a top national club.  Moving towards this professional template is the future.  Sorry, but you don’t hear any of the established A team ECNL players complaining.  They know they have to push themselves—all of them do continuous outside the club private training weekly. Pool play is here to stay.


----------



## what-happened

LouSag said:


> At Surf, it is more like 13-14 core players on the ECNL and 6-8 “floater” players that theoretically move between the A and B teams. Whether you like it or not, this is the future for the girls as they age up to a more competitive level. High school, college and pro teams are all “pool play” so get used to it. Furthermore, at the pro level, there are no age brackets hindering who can be on the team. The best and most prepared players suit up for the match. Deza and staff at Surf are just prepping/preparing these girls for the future. IMO other clubs will follow this template. Has Surf lost a few floater players to other clubs where they can go start on an ECNL team? Yes they have. Yet more and more numbers come out to test themselves and attempt to make the top team. At the same time, the ECRL team strengthens too. Darwinism at its finest.
> Surf, like it’s main So Cal competitors LAFC, Blues, Legends (would-have said Albion 2 years ago) strives to be a top national club.  Moving towards this professional template is the future.  Sorry, but you don’t hear any of the established A team ECNL players complaining.  They know they have to push themselves—all of them do continuous outside the club private training weekly. Pool play is here to stay.


How can you be so sure that pool play is here to stay?   - hasn't really even started.  The difference between YOUTH club soccer  and the pros/college is where the dollars come from.  How are HS players pool players?  

Pool play is effective, the proof is in the eruo pudding.  They have a different system - not pay to play.  Plenty of Surf shield carriers on here who are getting offended rather easily.  This isn't an attack on Surf.  They provide value to the youth club sport community, driving other clubs to keep up.  I don't think pool play is an innovation that will stand the test of time on this side of the pond.  It's just an opinion, you are certainly entitled to yours.


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## soccermail2020

Emma said:


> When a player is in a slump, theoretically, in pool play, the player should be playing in the ECRL team games because at their current state, the player isn't up to par to play the ECNL opponents. So instead of sitting on the ECNL bench while they are in a slump, they can still be competing on game day at ECRL games.  Once the player shows she is out her of slump, she will be chosen to be back in ECNL games.


Although the concept that you present is solid, the reality of a coach/club managing the PROCESS to best benefit each player is highly unlikely. 
From recent experience, a coach who has three+\~ teams and any other responsibilities will unlikely be able to be in tune enough with each player to make sure they end up in the correct spot each week. The juggling and scheduling alone makes an excel spreadsheet lover cringe. Most coaches roll into their Sat game with an “idea” of who to play where. Now ask that same coach to plan for roughly 45 kids, 4 days in advance on who will play in which game/team. Logistical nightmare. But if anyone COULD do it, it would be SURF.


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## N00B

Why so much ‘Surf’ chatter in this thread?


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## LouSag

what-happened said:


> How can you be so sure that pool play is here to stay?   - hasn't really even started.  The difference between YOUTH club soccer  and the pros/college is where the dollars come from.  How are HS players pool players?
> 
> Pool play is effective, the proof is in the eruo pudding.  They have a different system - not pay to play.  Plenty of Surf shield carriers on here who are getting offended rather easily.  This isn't an attack on Surf.  They provide value to the youth club sport community, driving other clubs to keep up.  I don't think pool play is an innovation that will stand the test of time on this side of the pond.  It's just an opinion, you are certainly entitled to yours.


How are high school players pool players?  On a whim, the high school coach can move any player(s) between varsity, JV and JVR.  Isn’t that the very definition of a pool player rotating between teams based on need and ability.

Maybe I should rephrase my above, pool play is here to stay for the bigger clubs like Surf, LAFC, Blues and Legends.  Is it really that different on who makes the first team/second team—now decided on a weekly basis instead of an annual basis.  And you get the benefits of training with first team players and coaches 2-3 times per week.  It’s all about development, I hope….


----------



## GT45

LouSag said:


> At Surf, it is more like 13-14 core players on the ECNL and 6-8 “floater” players that theoretically move between the A and B teams. Whether you like it or not, this is the future for the girls as they age up to a more competitive level. High school, college and pro teams are all “pool play” so get used to it. Furthermore, at the pro level, there are no age brackets hindering who can be on the team. The best and most prepared players suit up for the match. Deza and staff at Surf are just prepping/preparing these girls for the future. IMO other clubs will follow this template. Has Surf lost a few floater players to other clubs where they can go start on an ECNL team? Yes they have. Yet more and more numbers come out to test themselves and attempt to make the top team. At the same time, the ECRL team strengthens too. Darwinism at its finest.
> Surf, like it’s main So Cal competitors LAFC, Blues, Legends (would-have said Albion 2 years ago) strives to be a top national club.  Moving towards this professional template is the future.  Sorry, but you don’t hear any of the established A team ECNL players complaining.  They know they have to push themselves—all of them do continuous outside the club private training weekly. Pool play is here to stay.


How in the heck are college teams pool play? Do you understand what it means? The vast majority of college programs do not field JV or second teams. It is simply a single college team. No idea how you get pool play there. And, to say there is pool play at high schools is a big stretch too.


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## LouSag

GT45 said:


> How in the heck are college teams pool play? Do you understand what it means? The vast majority of college programs do not field JV or second teams. It is simply a single college team. No idea how you get pool play there. And, to say there is pool play at high schools is a big stretch too.


It depends on the college conference,  but the number of players rostered varies between 27-30 players.  My math is a bit fuzzy, but that’s more than 2 teams.  Pool of players to choose from.  Yes.  
Isn’t the definition of pool play being that a coach is able to choose from a pool of players for each match?
So high school and college and pro is most definitely pool play.


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## crush

BIGD said:


> And this is ultimately the root cause of the issues in club soccer.  Parents and players participating with the objective to secure a financial result and personal gain.  Not saying it’s necessarily right or wrong, but it’s drastically changed the youth sports landscape.  It’s why the quality team experience has been replaced with individuals playing for personal gain and is a major contributor to the politics.
> 
> I think pool play effectiveness has everything to do with the intent and how it’s managed.  If the intent is to create a fiercly dog eat dog competitive environment to improve players I think that will ultimately fail and be an awful experience. If the intent is to reach more players and help them improve, it could be beneficial.  The key will be the communication.  If the coaches have very clear   communication and establish trust with the players AND the parents, it could go well.  Based on my experience, even the best coaches would have trouble with this task.


Oh man, it's kind of like the "Country Club Pool" play, if you know what I mean....lol!!! My dd got kicked out of "Country Club Pool" and pushed in the "Public Pool."


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## crush

Pool play issues I have as a father and 11 years into this club soccer stuff. Please take this with a grain of salt.

Insensitive Coach ((IC)): ((Usually has no kids or no dd for sure.  Clueless on the mental aspects of young females)).
Pool Player ((PP)).  A player who is not really on a team but more a part of the club.  Many ways to spin this.  I spin it one way.  It sucks for the PP and their parents but hey, they have more than one team to be placed on so all should be happy, right?

A day at the pool can be very hard on certain females but not all.

IC:  Hey player, what's wrong with you today?  If you don't give me more effort, I'm sending you to the B team
PP:  No, not the B team, my dad will be pissed!!!!
IC:  Hey player, better job but it's a little too late.  I shouldnt have to yell at you for slacking off at the beginning of practice and goofing around with a smile and talking with your friends.  I need more "go getter" from you so B team this weekend.
Dad ((after practice)):  Well, A team?
IC:  B team dad.
Dad:  WTF!!!!  I dont drive down here for B team.  Your way better then so and so and for sure way better then so and so.  Did Susie make A team?
PP:  I'm so sorry father.  I tried, I really did father.
Dad:  Give me your phone. You make A team, you get it back
PP:  Ok
Dad ((calls IC)): Coach, you told me at the beginning of the season that my dd was A team all the way.  WTF coach?
IC: Truth be told, I picked 4 more players after I told you she was A team.  She is now B team unless she steps up
Dad:  Money back please
IC:  Too late sucker
Dad:  Oh ya, that's what you think
IC:  Go ahead and try.  I know everyone in the game and my word is gold.  Your a stupid dad and no one will believe you.  No one like's a club hopper either or a dad snooping around asking too many questions.

Pool play for girls is no good guys, moo!!!!


----------



## Eagle33

crush said:


> Pool play issues I have as a father and 11 years into this club soccer stuff. Please take this with a grain of salt.
> 
> Insensitive Coach ((IC)): ((Usually has no kids or no dd for sure.  Clueless on the mental aspects of young females)).
> Pool Player ((PP)).  A player who is not really on a team but more a part of the club.  Many ways to spin this.  I spin it one way.  It sucks for the PP and their parents but hey, they have more than one team to be placed on so all should be happy, right?
> 
> A day at the pool can be very hard on certain females but not all.
> 
> IC:  Hey player, what's wrong with you today?  If you don't give me more effort, I'm sending you to the B team
> PP:  No, not the B team, my dad will be pissed!!!!
> IC:  Hey player, better job but it's a little too late.  I shouldnt have to yell at you for slacking off at the beginning of practice and goofing around with a smile and talking with your friends.  I need more "go getter" from you so B team this weekend.
> Dad ((after practice)):  Well, A team?
> IC:  B team dad.
> Dad:  WTF!!!!  I dont drive down here for B team.  Your way better then so and so and for sure way better then so and so.  Did Susie make A team?
> PP:  I'm so sorry father.  I tried, I really did father.
> Dad:  Give me your phone. You make A team, you get it back
> PP:  Ok
> Dad ((calls IC)): Coach, you told me at the beginning of the season that my dd was A team all the way.  WTF coach?
> IC: Truth be told, I picked 4 more players after I told you she was A team.  She is now B team unless she steps up
> Dad:  Money back please
> IC:  Too late sucker
> Dad:  Oh ya, that's what you think
> IC:  Go ahead and try.  I know everyone in the game and my word is gold.  Your a stupid dad and no one will believe you.  No one like's a club hopper either or a dad snooping around asking too many questions.
> 
> Pool play for girls is no good guys, moo!!!!


@crush, was Goats also a pool play team?


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## crush

Eagle33 said:


> @crush, was Goats also a pool play team?


I can say that 90% of the GOATs back then came from the public pools and were selectively recruited by our two wise coach dads ((they never coached to be honest, which was my favorite part)).  The girls handled things and it was super fun for them.  One requirement was that you had to be an active pool club member at the forum and not a weirdo dad.  I feel honored I made the cut.  I do know of one father that went up to coach and told him that his dd is goat worthy but only plays forward.  No invite for that right there.  Eagle, any GOAT FC playing in Blues Cup this year?


----------



## MacDre

LouSag said:


> At Surf, it is more like 13-14 core players on the ECNL and 6-8 “floater” players that theoretically move between the A and B teams. Whether you like it or not, this is the future for the girls as they age up to a more competitive level. High school, college and pro teams are all “pool play” so get used to it. Furthermore, at the pro level, there are no age brackets hindering who can be on the team. The best and most prepared players suit up for the match. Deza and staff at Surf are just prepping/preparing these girls for the future. IMO other clubs will follow this template. Has Surf lost a few floater players to other clubs where they can go start on an ECNL team? Yes they have. Yet more and more numbers come out to test themselves and attempt to make the top team. At the same time, the ECRL team strengthens too. Darwinism at its finest.
> Surf, like it’s main So Cal competitors LAFC, Blues, Legends (would-have said Albion 2 years ago) strives to be a top national club.  Moving towards this professional template is the future.  Sorry, but you don’t hear any of the established A team ECNL players complaining.  They know they have to push themselves—all of them do continuous outside the club private training weekly. Pool play is here to stay.


This is not accurate and is probably only applicable to the situation at SAN DIEGO SURF and maybe it’s an ECNL marketing scheme.
For example, you analysis is not applicable to Bay Area Surf or Nor Cal Surf which are not part of ECNL.  It appears, the majority of the time there is spent practicing with a players shitty local team and if they are lucky they get selected to train with the pool once per month or play with the A team.  I don’t see how this is beneficial.  I also don’t see how the ECNL/ECRL pool situation situation is not limited to San Diego and could work elsewhere.


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> This is not accurate and is probably only applicable to the situation at SAN DIEGO SURF and maybe it’s an ECNL marketing scheme.
> For example, you analysis is not applicable to Bay Area Surf or Nor Cal Surf which are not part of ECNL.  It appears, the majority of the time there is spent practicing with a players shitty local team and if they are lucky they get selected to train with the pool once per month or play with the A team.  I don’t see how this is beneficial.  I also don’t see how the ECNL/ECRL pool situation situation is not limited to San Diego and could work elsewhere.


Satire Friday Funny........
It seems like some places throw the kids in one big pool and then the coaches ((life guards)) look to see who can swim on their own.  I just dont think that's how it really goes down in the selection process of A team and B team.  Some of these life guards are cute and mama wants her dd playing with the A team.....lol!  Some dads might just want to pay a little more so kid can be on A team.  Happy Friday the 13th Dre.  Peace to you bro


----------



## OCSoccerDad3

Soccer Pop said:


> Looks like the player movement has started for Sharks getting players. I hear MW'S 09 Albion team left for Sharks and that he also brought 3 Albion coaches with him. Will be interesting too see if his 08 team and some of his 06 National Championship Team from 2019-2020 make the move as well. Looks like a lot of movement might take place before August 31st.


Not sure all of your intel is accurate, but friend at Albion did confirm that about 2/3 of the 2009 team is looking to jump immediately. No word on coaches or players from other age groups.


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## futboldad1

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> Not sure all of your intel is accurate, but friend at Albion did confirm that about 2/3 of the 2009 team is looking to jump immediately. No word on coaches or players from other age groups.



"2/3".... meaning two thirds or 2-3?........thanks!



MacDre said:


> This is not accurate and is probably only applicable to the situation at SAN DIEGO SURF and maybe it’s an ECNL marketing scheme.
> For example, you analysis is not applicable to Bay Area Surf or Nor Cal Surf which are not part of ECNL.  It appears, the majority of the time there is spent practicing with a players shitty local team and if they are lucky they get selected to train with the pool once per month or play with the A team.  I don’t see how this is beneficial.  I also don’t see how the ECNL/ECRL pool situation situation is not limited to San Diego and could work elsewhere.


What have the other "Surfs" got to do with San Diego....... the answer is nothing.......


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## OCSoccerDad3

futboldad1 said:


> "2/3".... meaning two thirds or 2-3?........thanks!


9-11 kids.


----------



## crush

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> 9-11 kids.


That looks like a team of starters to me...lol!


----------



## soccer5210

MacDre said:


> Good stuff.  How did he do it?  Special drills? Inspiration/Encouragement?  Specifically, what is it that makes dude so special in your opinion?


Gosh, hard for me to remember specifics.  He coached her I think between the ages of 9 and maybe 11 and she is 18 now.  I do remember that he really improved her confidence, and focused on possession play a lot in practice.  Gave her a great foundation.  He also was good with communication with parents that I recall.  I also know my daughter really liked that he would actually play in the at-practice scrimmages with them, he made it fun for them but he was serious about bringing out the best in them.  It was a good balance. We were so sad when he announced he was leaving for Albion.  It was out of the blue and parents were upset, but I for one was happy for him because he was commuting all the way to Newport Beach from deep San Diego county and he had little kids.  It made sense for him to go.


----------



## MacDre

futboldad1 said:


> What have the other "Surfs" got to do with San Diego....... the answer is nothing.......


100% not true according to my conversations.  Also folks were insinuating that “pool play” is the way of the future for all clubs.  I call BS!


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> 100% not true according to my conversations.  Also folks were insinuating that “pool play” is the way of the future for all clubs.  I call BS!


The call has been made, "BS"


----------



## LASTMAN14

MacDre said:


> 100% not true according to my conversations.  Also folks were insinuating that “pool play” is the way of the future for all clubs.  I call BS!


Pool play seems like an experiment here and now. We will see if it works out. I also doubt most clubs will utilize it. Deza from what I was told tried to implement this somehow at SJQ, but it did not happen.


----------



## what-happened

LouSag said:


> How are high school players pool players?  On a whim, the high school coach can move any player(s) between varsity, JV and JVR.  Isn’t that the very definition of a pool player rotating between teams based on need and ability.
> 
> Maybe I should rephrase my above, pool play is here to stay for the bigger clubs like Surf, LAFC, Blues and Legends.  Is it really that different on who makes the first team/second team—now decided on a weekly basis instead of an annual basis.  And you get the benefits of training with first team players and coaches 2-3 times per week.  It’s all about development, I hope….


You cannot compare HS to pay to play club.  I get what you are saying but to make it an apples to apples comparison doesn't make sense.

We use the word development a ton in youth soccer.  The word provides such comfort to parents as they shell out the $$$.  Some kids get developed, many don't.  It's about wins and college placement for the big clubs.  Many of us here on the forum are on our 2 or 3rd player, with our first off to play at the next level (or not).  We shouldn't be so naive about the system.


----------



## Surf Zombie

One of the GA/DPL clubs here in MA tried the “pool” concept and it was a disaster. We have friends on both the GA & DPL team.  Top 8 kids stayed on GA so they were happy. Bottom 8 kids only played on DPL so they felt slighted. Middle 16 kids were in a constant state of flux, not knowing where they were playing week to week. That lead to a lot of “My kid was better than that kid at practice this week, why didn’t she get picked for the higher team?”  Plus, the parents hated not knowing it they had a local game or travel game until late in the week. It was a mess and I believe the “pool” concept only lasted one year.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Surf Zombie said:


> One of the GA/DPL clubs here in MA tried the “pool” concept and it was a disaster. We have friends on both the GA & DPL team.  Top 8 kids stayed on GA so they were happy. Bottom 8 kids only played on DPL so they felt slighted. Middle 16 kids were in a constant state of flux, not knowing where they were playing week to week. That lead to a lot of “My kid was better than that kid at practice this week, why didn’t she get picked for the higher team?”  Plus, the parents hated not knowing it they had a local game or travel game until late in the week. It was a mess and I believe the “pool” concept only lasted one year.


Probably why the pool concept if used abroad works. No parents, one program, a real academy program, and end result that the players know they can be released.


----------



## what-happened

Surf Zombie said:


> One of the GA/DPL clubs here in MA tried the “pool” concept and it was a disaster. We have friends on both the GA & DPL team.  Top 8 kids stayed on GA so they were happy. Bottom 8 kids only played on DPL so they felt slighted. Middle 16 kids were in a constant state of flux, not knowing where they were playing week to week. That lead to a lot of “My kid was better than that kid at practice this week, why didn’t she get picked for the higher team?”  Plus, the parents hated not knowing it they had a local game or travel game until late in the week. It was a mess and I believe the “pool” concept only lasted one year.


Have never seen it work.  Way to much of what you describe above gets in the way.  If anyone can do it, it would be Surf.  They have a loyal following and parents  may fall in line.


----------



## GT45

LouSag said:


> It depends on the college conference,  but the number of players rostered varies between 27-30 players.  My math is a bit fuzzy, but that’s more than 2 teams.  Pool of players to choose from.  Yes.
> Isn’t the definition of pool play being that a coach is able to choose from a pool of players for each match?
> So high school and college and pro is most definitely pool play.


By your definition every team is pool play then. You cannot be serious. Pool play is moving players between teams (ECNL/ECRL for example).


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## crush

LASTMAN14 said:


> Probably why the pool concept if used abroad works. No parents, one program, a real academy program, and end result that the players know they can be released.


Excellent take Lastman


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## Carlsbad7

Heres another issue with pool play parents have to consider. When the initial group of players is selected (both A and B) clubs will already have offered scholarship to X amount. Everyone else is fighting for playing time. The club/coach will leverage the inequal balance of power to pressure parents into paying their dues in full asap. What will happen is the players who pay their dues first will be the ones that play on the A team in the first tournaments of the year. Coaches dont even need to go this far. They just have to seperate the players in practice who's parents are paid in full with the scholarship players. Parents will get the hint fast to pay up or your kid is on the B team.


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## MacDre

Carlsbad7 said:


> Heres another issue with pool play parents have to consider. When the initial group of players is selected (both A and B) clubs will already have offered scholarship to X amount. Everyone else is fighting for playing time. The club/coach will leverage the inequal balance of power to pressure parents into paying their dues in full asap. What will happen is the players who pay their dues first will be the ones that play on the A team in the first tournaments of the year. Coaches dont even need to go this far. They just have to seperate the players in practice who's parents are paid in full with the scholarship players. Parents will get the hint fast to pay up or your kid is on the B team.


LA breeds gangsters but the Bay Area breeds pimps, players, and hustlers.

Shot out to Deza.  What’s good pimpin?  I think Berner looks like Deza so I dedicate this song to all y’all feeling the pool play.


----------



## crush

Carlsbad7 said:


> Heres another issue with pool play parents have to consider. When the initial group of players is selected (both A and B) clubs will already have offered scholarship to X amount. Everyone else is fighting for playing time. The club/coach will leverage the inequal balance of power to pressure parents into paying their dues in full asap. What will happen is the players who pay their dues first will be the ones that play on the A team in the first tournaments of the year. Coaches dont even need to go this far. They just have to separate the players in practice who's parents are paid in full with the scholarship players. Parents will get the hint fast to pay up or your kid is on the B team.


Excellent takes bro.  I would also add the "extra privates" with the pool director each week would make A team a shoe in.....lol  Funny Friday The 13th


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## Carlsbad7

crush said:


> Excellent takes bro.  I would also add the "extra privates" with the pool director each week would make A team a shoe in.....lol  Funny Friday The 13th


Maybe we shouldn't be relying all this + let the Surf people find out for themselves. ;-)


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## Carlsbad7

This is how I feel when trying to explain why pool play doesnt work when all players arent scholarship.


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## kickingandscreaming

crush said:


> Most girls love the team concept and then try and win as a team, not as a pool of players.


This has been my experience as well - generally. There are always exceptions.


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## kickingandscreaming

LASTMAN14 said:


> Pool play seems like an experiment here and now. We will see if it works out. I also doubt most clubs will utilize it. Deza from what I was told tried to implement this somehow at SJQ, but it did not happen.


I tend to differentiate soccer club structures by how "team-centric" they are. A club that has tryouts at the beginning of the year and selects players from that tryout and those are the players that train together and play together as a team the whole season is highly team-centric. Pool play would be the other end of the spectrum - players train and play across age groups/teams and new players come in regardless of roster size or time of the year.

My impression is that you need at least two, fully rostered teams in an age group that have a very similar schedule to have any chance of successfully implementing "pure" pool play. I don't believe most families will regularly accept, "Your daughter won't be playing this weekend" when others in the pool are playing. Even with a 2nd team that has a similar schedule, it will still be a struggle to keep those borderline kids who are more often with the 2nd team - especially if they can go to another team in the league and play with the first team.

The SJQ DA never had two DA teams in an age group, but they did move players between age groups regularly. It can be argued that the reasoning was not only developmental for the player but also strategic for the club as both purposes were served. I'd also say that their training was more "pool play" oriented as multiple age groups often trained at the same time and worked through training stations with combined age groups.

What Deza did at SJQ DA was not easy to implement. All the coaches had to buy into the same training methodology and have much less autonomy than they typically would have when coaching a club team. Parents would regularly see multiple roster changes on a weekly basis and many would evaluate what that meant for their daughter and the team. I'd be surprised if that type of club structure became common on the girls' side.


----------



## crush

kickingandscreaming said:


> The SJQ DA never had two DA teams in an age group, but they did move players between age groups regularly. It can be argued that the reasoning was not only developmental for the player but also strategic for the club as both purposes were served. I'd also say that their training was more "pool play" oriented as multiple age groups often trained at the same time and worked through training stations with combined age groups.
> 
> What Deza did at SJQ DA was not easy to implement. All the coaches had to buy into the same training methodology and have much less autonomy than they typically would have when coaching a club team. Parents would regularly see multiple roster changes on a weekly basis and many would evaluate what that meant for their daughter and the team. I'd be surprised if that type of club structure became common on the girls' side.


Excellent, excellent truth speak here brother.  I remember trying to figure what team was showing up back in those days.  Basically, SJQ had some of the best 03s, 04s and 05s that could all ball at the highest of levels because of their God given talent of speed, size, athleticism, soccer IQ and just flat out can ball with all the greats.  I saw one game where all the top goats played with the 03 team and that made the 04s weaker that day and the 04s would lose because 03s were pushing for playoffs.  I honestly believe that my dd was that last 04 team to ball against all the top SJQ 04s and 05s all at once.  It was Deza vs Dolinsky down at Del Mar in 2017 bro.  I need that video if anyone has a copy.  My copy got locked up someone's Dropbox. PD wanted that Doc job btw and moo, with a little improvements on admin, working with feisty players and how to deal with craxy parents like me ((lol, were cool and we all get each other today and 100% all is forgiven)) he would have down a great job but was not offered the gig. We won 2-0 too and I believe the PD 03 won so score board.  Now Deza got the gig.  My kid still thinks PD was her best coach explaining the passing game to her and his training were what his U18 national team did.  It was the best.  I also think some players should play up and some should stay with their age group because their leaders.  JH over at Legends said that to me as did the other great coaches.  Hard to lead as 05 with a team of 03s.  One is not better.  PD and Deza know how to work a pool of players.  PD told my dd so many amazing things about her gifts and abilities and as a family, we cherish them.  No satire.  If he was the Doc, he said this and that about my dd but because of this and that he was not allowed.  I will always wonder, "what if."  That was by far the best soccer I saw played with two teams btw K&S.  Sorry MLVA vs LAFC, close second, MOO.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

crush said:


> Excellent, excellent truth speak here brother.  I remember trying to figure what team was showing up back in those days.  Basically, SJQ had some of the best 03s, 04s and 05s that could all ball at the highest of levels because of their God given talent of speed, size, athleticism, soccer IQ and just flat out can ball with all the greats.  I saw one game where all the top goats played with the 03 team and that made the 04s weaker that day and the 04s would lose because 03s were pushing for playoffs.  I honestly believe that my dd was that last 04 team to ball against all the top SJQ 04s and 05s all at once.  It was Deza vs Dolinsky down at Del Mar in 2017 bro.  I need that video if anyone has a copy.  My copy got locked up someone's Dropbox. PD wanted that Doc job btw and moo, with a little improvements on admin, working with feisty players and how to deal with craxy parents like me ((lol, were cool and we all get each other today and 100% all is forgiven)) he would have down a great job but was not offered the gig. We won 2-0 too and I believe the PD 03 won so score board.  Now Deza got the gig.  My kid still thinks PD was her best coach explaining the passing game to her and his training were what his U18 national team did.  It was the best.  I also think some players should play up and some should stay with their age group because their leaders.  JH over at Legends said that to me as did the other great coaches.  Hard to lead as 05 with a team of 03s.  One is not better.  PD and Deza know how to work a pool of players.  PD told my dd so many amazing things about her gifts and abilities and as a family, we cherish them.  No satire.  If he was the Doc, he said this and that about my dd but because of this and that he was not allowed.  I will always wonder, "what if."  That was by far the best soccer I saw played with two teams btw K&S.  Sorry MLVA vs LAFC, close second, MOO.


If you want to see another 04 girls team that plays excellent possession soccer, check out the Concorde '04 ECNL team. They are fun to watch.


----------



## crush

kickingandscreaming said:


> If you want to see another 04 girls team that plays excellent possession soccer, check out the Concorde '04 ECNL team. They are fun to watch.


No one got hurt in our games bro and that right there is what I remember.  They were all "go getters" that day and played with ganas but under control


----------



## Goforgoal

The amount that this thread has been derailed and gone off topic is off the charts.


----------



## crush

Goforgoal said:


> The amount that this thread has been derailed and gone off topic is off the charts.


Sorry bro, it's my fault.  Outlaw would get so pissed off at me for bringing up the past and saying, "my dd' all the time.   Me and K & S go way back, even before the great heist of the GDA over ECNL in 2016 that sewed division between best friends because one was better than the other.  KS, I'll PM you.  Go Sharks, Go Rebels, Go Surf and go all teams in SD.


----------



## Goforgoal

crush said:


> Sorry bro, it's my fault.


Naw not your fault man. You're just being you. It started with all the pool play stuff, although to be fair it has provided some interesting and insightful conversation which is always good.


----------



## crush

Goforgoal said:


> Naw not your fault man. You're just being you. It started with all the pool play stuff, although to be fair it has provided some interesting and insightful conversation which is always good.


Thanks for the "no fault" bro.  I thought about it again and feel both myself and K&S bring experience to this thread for many reasons.  Pool play was done with SJQ and they won the 03 I believe first ever GDA Natty.  My dd team was team first and no one allowed to play up.  That worked as well for my dd team, they won 2017 natty with "no" play ups allowed unless you got a special waiver or US Soccer demanded it...lol.  If pool play is the way, then the great Deza will 100% pull the best from Socal.  Those that want to learn from one of the best will make the 1 to 2 hour drive.  I would drive from Temecula if Deza recruited my kid and said, "she gots it."  I would have been honored and so would have my goat.  The guy can flat out coach and teach possession.  It's a win win really.  The local Del Mar kids and surrounding areas will show the out of towners who the true locals are.


----------



## Goforgoal

I'm hearing rumblings of some unhappy Sharks parents who's kids are getting pushed aside by new kids coming in. I mean I get it, the timing is rough as they signed up and paid fees for what they thought would be an ECNL slot for the next season, but it's what needs to happen to improve the club's performance like it or not. What if sitting at or near the bottom too much longer meant Sharks lost ECNL altogether? No bueno. Either way, it does sound like a shake up is well underway and while there will inevitably be some collateral damage, it needs to happen.


----------



## Emma

Goforgoal said:


> I'm hearing rumblings of some unhappy Sharks parents who's kids are getting pushed aside by new kids coming in. I mean I get it, the timing is rough as they signed up and paid fees for what they thought would be an ECNL slot for the next season, but it's what needs to happen to improve the club's performance like it or not. What if sitting at or near the bottom too much longer meant Sharks lost ECNL altogether? No bueno. Either way, it does sound like a shake up is well underway and while there will inevitably be some collateral damage, it needs to happen.


Hoping to hear more rumblings like that.  Parents who are rumbling are unrealistic about their children's levels.  Their kids will be much happier and more likely to develop playing in the ECRL team and having a chance to practice their skills and runs versus just chasing after players and balls defensively.


----------



## Carlsbad7

Goforgoal said:


> I'm hearing rumblings of some unhappy Sharks parents who's kids are getting pushed aside by new kids coming in. I mean I get it, the timing is rough as they signed up and paid fees for what they thought would be an ECNL slot for the next season, but it's what needs to happen to improve the club's performance like it or not. What if sitting at or near the bottom too much longer meant Sharks lost ECNL altogether? No bueno. Either way, it does sound like a shake up is well underway and while there will inevitably be some collateral damage, it needs to happen.


I can confirm + am hearing the same.

I don't understand parents being upset because the club is bringing on better players. If the current ECNL team wasn't consistently losing every game this wouldn't be happening.

Somehow current Sharks parents didn't get the message that ECNL is competitive soccer not rec.


----------



## Goforgoal

Carlsbad7 said:


> Somehow current Sharks parents didn't get the message that ECNL is competitive soccer not rec.


It seems to me that Sharks parents have been running the club and calling the shots for awhile now (at least on the girls side). That needs to change, and hopefully it will.


----------



## N00B

Carlsbad7 said:


> I don't understand parents being upset because the club is bringing on better players. If the current ECNL team wasn't consistently losing every game this wouldn't be happening.
> 
> Somehow current Sharks parents didn't get the message that ECNL is competitive soccer not rec.


Maybe the need to recruit players to perform is more of a critique of player development.


----------



## Carlsbad7

N00B said:


> Maybe the need to recruit players to perform is more of a critique of player development.


100% agree. However you cant look in the rearview.

Sharks have brought on a new DOC to address issues.

Mike is doing exactly what he was hired to do.


----------



## Carlsbad7

N00B said:


> Maybe the need to recruit players to perform is more of a critique of player development.


If it makes you feel any better Sharks coaches that provided poor player development/results are likely the next to be replaced.


----------



## outside!

Carlsbad7 said:


> If it makes you feel any better Sharks coaches that provided poor player development/results are likely the next to be replaced.


Natural ability is the most important variable at the youth level.  Elite youth teams are elite because they have the most players with the most natural ability. Player development is important for differentiating between players and teams with similar levels of natural ability. More successful teams/clubs tend to attract more players with high levels of natural ability.


----------



## Goforgoal

N00B said:


> Maybe the need to recruit players to perform is more of a critique of player development.





outside! said:


> Natural ability is the most important variable at the youth level.  Elite youth teams are elite because they have the most players with the most natural ability. Player development is important for differentiating between players and teams with similar levels of natural ability. More successful teams/clubs tend to attract more players with high levels of natural ability.


This 100%. If anyone actually thinks the winningest clubs year in and year out do so because of their superior development I have a bridge to sell you.


----------



## GT45

I can understand the parents being upset if their kid was offered an ECNL spot, paid their fees for the upcoming season, and then were told there is a change of plans 'you are now on a lower team'. I would ask for my money back IF that is what is happening. The club made the leadership change at a really bad time (after most clubs finished tryouts).


----------



## OCSoccerDad3

GT45 said:


> I can understand the parents being upset if their kid was offered an ECNL spot, paid their fees for the upcoming season, and then were told there is a change of plans 'you are now on a lower team'. I would ask for my money back IF that is what is happening. The club made the leadership change at a really bad time (after most clubs finished tryouts).


Sounds like that’s exactly what’s happening. I’d be asking for a refund, too. Easy to throw stones at unsuspecting Sharks players & parents here, but is it their fault their kids tried out for and made the ECNL team months ago? I think most of us can agree that “anything goes” during tryouts, but demoting kids/teams 2-3 weeks before the season starts is not something I’ve ever heard of before, even at the most cutthroat clubs in the OC. The way this has been described doesn’t feel like business as usual in competitive soccer.


----------



## Carlsbad7

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> Sounds like that’s exactly what’s happening. I’d be asking for a refund, too. Easy to throw stones at unsuspecting Sharks players & parents here, but is it their fault their kids tried out for and made the ECNL team months ago? I think most of us can agree that “anything goes” during tryouts, but demoting kids/teams 2-3 weeks before the season starts is not something I’ve ever heard of before, even at the most cutthroat clubs in the OC. The way this has been described doesn’t feel like business as usual in competitive soccer.


Surf (a club 15 minutes away from Sharks) is going to implement pool play next season. Players will be fighting for playing time week in and week out. 

*This is Sharks ECNL competition.*

It would be dangerous for the previous Sharks players to go head to head against teams like Surf. 

It might bruise some Sharks parents egos. But this needed to happen.


----------



## soccerparent4

Emma said:


> MW will make those teams competitive soon.  What's there to lose if your daughter is currently on the bench or on an ecrl team?  Your daughter can be a starter and play against ECNL teams, not ECRL teams, and we've seen what MW can do with teams and programs.





Carlsbad7 said:


> I have no doubts that MW can make teams competitive. The problem with Sharks isn't resolved just by bringing on a new Girls DOC. Leadership has allowed Sharks to swirl around the toilet for 10+ years. Change starts at the top + certain people need to go or be realigned into positions better fitting their skillsets.


----------



## soccerparent4

silverback said:


> Coach MW formally at Albion has joined Sharks as their new director on the girls side. Many have posted their thoughts regarding Sharks and their performance in ECNL and have offered various suggestions (on other threads) as to how they move forward. Well here is a concrete action they have taken. Based on MW teams prior performances, level, and style of play this may be a positive step for those that hope to see the level of play in ECNL continue to be raised from top to bottom.


Is MacMillan still with the Sharks? Who did MW replace?


----------



## crush

Carlsbad7 said:


> Surf (a club 15 minutes away from Sharks) is going to implement pool play next season. Players will be fighting for playing time week in and week out.
> 
> *This is Sharks ECNL competition.*
> 
> It would be dangerous for the previous Sharks players to go head to head against teams like Surf.
> 
> It might bruise some Sharks parents egos. But this needed to happen.


Is this a local pool for kids from San Diego or one big giant socal pool?  Just curious.  How far is too far to drive for a chance to swim with the best and be coached by one of the all-time coaches?  Socal Blues ring a bell?  Maybe go "Socal Surf?"  Someone said Vegas players will be in swimming in the pool?  I think that was a joke.  Anyone from AZ?  If I were the Sharks right now, I would sell that you must be from the County of SD to be on our team.  Full rides for those who sacrifice to get there at Surf someone said as well?  Surf will be hard to beat.  20 plus YNT calls ups, 11 Natty's and the great Deza.  Good luck for second place.


----------



## Carlsbad7

crush said:


> Is this a local pool for kids from San Diego or one big giant socal pool?  Just curious.  How far is too far to drive for a chance to swim with the best and be coached by one of the all-time coaches?  Socal Blues ring a bell?  Maybe go "Socal Surf?"  Someone said Vegas players will be in swimming in the pool?  I think that was a joke.  Anyone from AZ?  If I were the Sharks right now, I would sell that you must be from the County of SD to be on our team.  Full rides for those who sacrifice to get there at Surf someone said as well?  Surf will be hard to beat.  20 plus YNT calls ups, 11 Natty's and the great Deza.  Good luck for second place.


In SD you have 3 options for ECNL...

Surf in north central coastal SD
Sharks in north central coastal SD
Rebels in Chula Vista (by the border)

Blues are Irvine / San Juan Capisteano. (30-40 minute drive with no traffic from North SD)

This is why people are watching what happens with Sharks so closely.

If you want to play GA in SD theres Albion in PB/OB and CitySC in Carlsbad.

As multiple people on this thread have stated theres going to be situations where ECRL Surf players are going to say "screw this I can drive 10 minutes more and play ECNL at Sharks." Before MW was named DOC this would never happen because Sharks coaches/leadership were bad.


----------



## FernandoFromNationalCity

Carlsbad7 said:


> In SD you have 3 options for ECNL...
> 
> Surf in north central coastal SD
> Sharks in north central coastal SD
> Rebels in Chula Vista (by the border)
> 
> Blues are Irvine / San Juan Capisteano. (30-40 minute drive with no traffic from North SD)
> 
> This is why people are watching what happens with Sharks so closely.
> 
> If you want to play GA in SD theres Albion in PB/OB and CitySC in Carlsbad.
> 
> As multiple people on this thread have stated theres going to be situations where ECRL Surf players are going to say "screw this I can drive 10 minutes more and play ECNL at Sharks." Before MW was named DOC this would never happen because Sharks coaches/leadership were bad.


We drive 2 hours for my daughters practice.
We did reach out to the sharks when my daughter left rebels and they responded months later..
I always felt the situation at sharks was a bad one with the parents not letting the best players play for shark vs the embarrassment some parents will face if they’re kids got demoted. I’m hoping for the best for sharks.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Carlsbad7 said:


> Blues are Irvine / San Juan Capisteano. (30-40 minute drive with no traffic from North SD)


You are off on the drive times; it is approximately 30 miles from South Carlsbad just to Basilone Road.  The Great Park is another solid 20-25 miles.  Getting in and out of the Great Park is not easy.  You are also assuming NO traffic and speeds that are not realistic.  I commuted to Tustin from Carlsbad for around 10 years, I know the drive.  

That said, there are plenty of SD players making the drive, the drive is just longer than what you have indicated.


----------



## ecsoccermom

Carlsbad7 said:


> Surf (a club 15 minutes away from Sharks) is going to implement pool play next season. Players will be fighting for playing time week in and week out.
> 
> *This is Sharks ECNL competition.*
> 
> It would be dangerous for the previous Sharks players to go head to head against teams like Surf.
> 
> It might bruise some Sharks parents egos. But this needed to happen.


Is the pool play just on the girls side or also on the boys side of Surf? Just curious.  Saw a boys ECNL game with 14 bench players and at least 8 players who were not even there because of injuries/prior engagements.  This was there U19 team I believe.


----------



## Carlsbad7

ecsoccermom said:


> Is the pool play just on the girls side or also on the boys side of Surf? Just curious.  Saw a boys ECNL game with 14 bench players and at least 8 players who were not even there because of injuries/prior engagements.  This was there U19 team I believe.


The rumor is that ANDRÉS DEZA Surfs new DOC will implement pool play next season. Theres pulses and minuses to the approach which people have discussed previously.

It would be interesting if Surf put a couple out of area/state players in the pool + let them practice remotely but brought them in for games.


----------



## Desert Hound

Goforgoal said:


> I'm hearing rumblings of some unhappy Sharks parents who's kids are getting pushed aside by new kids coming in. I mean I get it, the timing is rough as they signed up and paid fees for what they thought would be an ECNL slot for the next season, but it's what needs to happen to improve the club's performance like it or not. What if sitting at or near the bottom too much longer meant Sharks lost ECNL altogether? No bueno. Either way, it does sound like a shake up is well underway and while there will inevitably be some collateral damage, it needs to happen.


Based on their records across ALL age groups, they have a lot of kids on those teams that shouldn't be in the ECNL. So if those kids start losing their spots to ones that can...that is sports.


----------



## crush

Desert Hound said:


> Based on their records across ALL age groups, they have a lot of kids on those teams that shouldn't be in the ECNL. So if those kids start losing their spots to ones that can...*that is sports.*


The timing sucks for players who signed up early on with expectation to play ECNL.  I complained one time to a Doc for a bold face lie from the coach. He asked me and I quote, "did you get it writing?"  I said "NO!  I didnt know I needed to do but I will next time Doc.  Thanks for the tip."  This is sports Hound and sports can be harsh no doubt it.  I feel super sad for the players, but it is youth soccer sports.  I can tell anyone here unless you have it writing, anything can go.  Were all is good as our kids last goal and nothing is true unless you have it in writing.  This is one of the most cut throat sports ever.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Carlsbad7 said:


> It would be interesting if Surf put a couple out of area/state players in the pool + let them practice remotely but brought them in for games.


That would be interesting.  Maybe they can try it out at a tournament, like Surf Cup, and see how it goes.  See how the families feel about their kid losing playing time to a kid not on the local roster.  But that would never happen.


----------



## Emma

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> Sounds like that’s exactly what’s happening. I’d be asking for a refund, too. Easy to throw stones at unsuspecting Sharks players & parents here, but is it their fault their kids tried out for and made the ECNL team months ago? I think most of us can agree that “anything goes” during tryouts, but demoting kids/teams 2-3 weeks before the season starts is not something I’ve ever heard of before, even at the most cutthroat clubs in the OC. The way this has been described doesn’t feel like business as usual in competitive soccer.


Ideally, the timing should be before tryouts, but sometimes it can't happen due to many moving parts and doing the best when you can is all Sharks has left right now. The players at Sharks who belong on an ECNL team, will have a place on the ECNL team and benefit from the change because they will likely receive balls more during games.  The players who are chasing balls and players will benefit so much more from this change once they get past the different team name.  Hopefully, Sharks will do the right thing and refund parents if they choose to leave and not stay on the ECRL team.


----------



## MacDre

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> That would be interesting.  Maybe they can try it out at a tournament, like Surf Cup, and see how it goes.  See how the families feel about their kid losing playing time to a kid not on the local roster.  But that would never happen.


If I had a top player in the Surf pool, I’d welcome the outside competition.  If the out of town player is better, then my player needs to work harder or accept the fact that they aren’t good enough.  The players won’t all be local in college so, why does it matter where the players come from in club soccer?  A player is either good enough or not.  No excuses.


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> *If I had a top player in the Surf pool, I’d welcome the outside competition.* *If the out of town player is better, then my player needs to work harder or accept the fact that they aren’t good enough.* *The players won’t all be local in college so, why does it matter where the players come from in club soccer?* *A player is either good enough or not*.*  No excuses.*


FYI Dre, I use colors now to respond to each take.  *You know what, true that.* * I heard a rumor through grape vine news that some of the surfers from Nocal might make the roster and play in the big games that matter? * *Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt and two shots of Tequila .* * ECNL playoffs next year will probably have teams like colleges.* * Whatever it takes to win baby.  No excuses and this is 100% about the survival of the fittest.  This is high stakes soccer Dre.  I really should write a book on: "How to get involved in girls youth soccer: One dads journey."*


----------



## foreveryoung

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> That would be interesting.  Maybe they can try it out at a tournament, like Surf Cup, and see how it goes.  See how the families feel about their kid losing playing time to a kid not on the local roster.  But that would never happen.


This is already happening.  The bigger clubs are using their franchise or satellite affiliates to expand their reach beyond the local area and creating a similar "national team" experience to what US soccer does; acting as scouts and inviting the "top players" to train and compete with other "top players" and compete in the bigger tournaments.  Basically creating "opportunities" that their smaller or more rural clubs wouldn't offer them. They have to be able to afford the travel of course.  So once again, the first criteria of being a "top player" in club soccer is having the money to pay for the travel that is requires.


----------



## crush

foreveryoung said:


> This is already happening.  The bigger clubs are using their franchise or satellite affiliates to expand their reach beyond the local area and creating a similar "national team" experience to what US soccer does; acting as scouts and inviting the "top players" to train and compete with other "top players" and compete in the bigger tournaments.  Basically creating "opportunities" that their smaller or more rural clubs wouldn't offer them. They have to be able to afford the travel of course.  So once again, the first criteria of being a "top player" in club soccer is having the money to pay for the travel that is requires.


To be pro in girls soccer you need to be willing to go full time soccer forever young and you best better have rich parents who dont have to be somewhere 9-5 Monday thru Friday to pay them bills.  No way a kid could swim in that pool.  This is more for home schooled prodigies like OM and few others I know.  I'm not against this.  I tried to do it.  I knew the social life was what my dd loves and no offense, being at my house doing school would suck for her.  These types of families have the means, the talent and the connections that only money can buy.  Tom Brady said you need to enjoy life more as kid and not just make it about 24/7 soccer soccer soccer soccer 10 months out of the year.   The mental stress some parents put on kids is insane, especially the girls.  To each his own but man, this has been nuts to watch over the years.  OM made it to the top of the Mountain at 15 from hard work and commitment.  To be the best, you need to train with the best.  You can;t argue that point.


----------



## Sombitch

Carlsbad7 said:


> The rumor is that ANDRÉS DEZA Surfs new DOC will implement pool play next season. Theres pulses and minuses to the approach which people have discussed previously.
> 
> It would be interesting if Surf put a couple out of area/state players in the pool + let them practice remotely but brought them in for games.


Shit this happened long before Deza

Two Vegas Studs and a Camarillo stud all did this on that 99 team for years 

Never attended training and always started

That said all were part of the national team pool -


----------



## N00B

MacDre said:


> If I had a top player in the Surf pool, I’d welcome the outside competition.  If the out of town player is better, then my player needs to work harder or accept the fact that they aren’t good enough.  The players won’t all be local in college so, why does it matter where the players come from in club soccer?  A player is either good enough or not.  No excuses.


So you’re saying being benched for the equivalent of a ‘guest’ player from some affiliate is reasonable in a youth sports club/competitive environment?

Maybe smaller clubs could take those benched players on loan… it happens in the professional leagues after all.


----------



## MacDre

N00B said:


> So you’re saying being benched for the equivalent of a ‘guest’ player from some affiliate is reasonable in a youth sports club/competitive environment?
> 
> Maybe smaller clubs could take those benched players on loan… it happens in the professional leagues after all.


Yes, I think pay-to-play at times creates weak self entitled adults.  ECNL is suppose to be competitive.  Losing is part of competition.  Why do folks feel just because they pay, their kids get to play in a competitive environment?  This is why I think club soccer is essentially “affirmative action” for the rich; because every player is a winner so long as moms and pops has enough scrilla, scratch, paper to make it happen.  Pure unadulterated fuckery!

The primary benefit that ECNL should provide is a competitive environment to learn team tactics.  However, the vast majority or ECNL and D1 college teams that I have seen play are technically inept.  Could you please explain how a group of technically inept folks can learn tactics and be competitive?

So for me, it’s not about the smaller clubs taking on people that have failed to develop technically and/or lack physicality.  For me, it’s about being honest and telling these folks that they are not good enough so that they can move on and find something they are good at.

It’s been said that” those that can, do and those that can’t, teach.”  So, based on my observations we should have lots of female coaches in the future.


----------



## crush

MacDre said:


> Yes, I think pay-to-play at times creates weak self entitled adults.  ECNL is suppose to be competitive.  Losing is part of competition.  Why do folks feel just because they pay, their kids get to play in a competitive environment?  This is why I think club soccer is essentially “affirmative action” for the rich; because every player is a winner so long as moms and pops has enough scrilla, scratch, paper to make it happen.  Pure unadulterated fuckery!
> 
> The primary benefit that ECNL should provide is a competitive environment to learn team tactics.  However, the vast majority or ECNL and D1 college teams that I have seen play are technically inept.  Could you please explain how a group of technically inept folks can learn tactics and be competitive?
> 
> So for me, it’s not about the smaller clubs taking on people that have failed to develop technically and/or lack physicality.  For me, it’s about being honest and telling these folks that they are not good enough so that they can move on and find something they are good at.
> 
> It’s been said that” those that can, do and those that can’t, teach.”  So, based on my observations we should have lots of female coaches in the future.


I read this quick but you get a "BOOM" from Crush.  I was trying to write want you just wrote for three years.  I now see why my dd was kicked to the curb.  I had no scrilla or scratch.  Oh snapo, no playo!!


----------



## SoulTrain

soccerparent4 said:


> Is MacMillan still with the Sharks? Who did MW replace?


MacMillan is still at Sharks.  Last 990 (public information) filed by DMCV in 2019 had her making $265k.  You'd think with that kind of jack, their ECNL girls teams wouldn't be in the bottom three of every division, some didn't win a single game last season.  I've seen the new girls coming over, it's not going to get any better this year.


----------



## Messi>CR7

MacDre said:


> It’s been said that” those that can, do and those that can’t, teach.”  So, based on my observations we should have lots of female coaches in the future.


And those that can't play or teach became soccer experts on a youth soccer forum.


----------



## Emma

SoulTrain said:


> MacMillan is still at Sharks.  Last 990 (public information) filed by DMCV in 2019 had her making $265k.  You'd think with that kind of jack, their ECNL girls teams wouldn't be in the bottom three of every division, some didn't win a single game last season.  I've seen the new girls coming over, it's not going to get any better this year.


The girls moving over to Sharks will make them more competitive than last year.  I think Shannon made some mistakes with picking bad coaches for ECNL and not pushing for a more competitive environment immediately.  MW should be making coaching changes to most of those ECNL girls teams.


----------



## Carlsbad7

SoulTrain said:


> MacMillan is still at Sharks.  Last 990 (public information) filed by DMCV in 2019 had her making $265k.  You'd think with that kind of jack, their ECNL girls teams wouldn't be in the bottom three of every division, some didn't win a single game last season.  I've seen the new girls coming over, it's not going to get any better this year.


Good info on the 990. One of the only good decisions Mac has made in the last 5 years is hiring MW. How as a leader could she have let it get to this point? Also, how did the board of directors allow the losses to mount year after year without making an action?

MW can't make magic overnight with all the levels. G2009 ECNL team will likely be able to hold their own with recent changes.


----------



## outside!

Carlsbad7 said:


> Good info on the 990. One of the only good decisions Mac has made in the last 5 years is hiring MW. How as a leader could she have let it get to this point? Also, how did the board of directors allow the losses to mount year after year without making an action?
> 
> MW can't make magic overnight with all the levels. G2009 ECNL team will likely be able to hold their own with recent changes.


Among the people I knew who had Mac as a coach, she did not have a great reputation. They were much happier when Goran took over the team and the team got more competitive.


----------



## Soccerfan2

SoulTrain said:


> MacMillan is still at Sharks.  Last 990 (public information) filed by DMCV in 2019 had her making $265k.  You'd think with that kind of jack, their ECNL girls teams wouldn't be in the bottom three of every division, some didn't win a single game last season.  I've seen the new girls coming over, it's not going to get any better this year.


$265K? That’s insane!


----------



## OCSoccerDad3

Carlsbad7 said:


> Good info on the 990. One of the only good decisions Mac has made in the last 5 years is hiring MW. How as a leader could she have let it get to this point? Also, how did the board of directors allow the losses to mount year after year without making an action?
> 
> MW can't make magic overnight with all the levels. G2009 ECNL team will likely be able to hold their own with recent changes.


Did MW bring his entire team over from Albion? Could make for a rough first season in GA for Albion's 2009 girls. If he did bring them over, it will be interesting to see how a GA squad will stack up in ECNL. What are they doing with the existing Sharks ECNL team? Sending them all to ECRL?


----------



## Carlsbad7

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> Did MW bring his entire team over from Albion? Could make for a rough first season in GA for Albion's 2009 girls. If he did bring them over, it will be interesting to see how a GA squad will stack up in ECNL. What are they doing with the existing Sharks ECNL team? Sending them all to ECRL?


I only hear about rumors, word is that some of the Albion G2009 GA players moved over. 

No idea of how many or what Sharks plan to do with existing ECNL players.


----------



## futboldad1

outside! said:


> Among the people I knew who had Mac as a coach, she did not have a great reputation. They were much happier when Goran took over the team and the team got more competitive.


Even worse before??......wo! as both his teams finished 14 out of 14 SW ECNL teams......Sharks as a club had an average finish of 13 eek..........

the threat of losing ecnl due to poor performance year on year across all age groups seems to have finally brought much needed change.......


----------



## espola

SoulTrain said:


> MacMillan is still at Sharks.  Last 990 (public information) filed by DMCV in 2019 had her making $265k.  You'd think with that kind of jack, their ECNL girls teams wouldn't be in the bottom three of every division, some didn't win a single game last season.  I've seen the new girls coming over, it's not going to get any better this year.


For 2 hours a week.  And a couple of years ago noting was reported.  She must have renegotiated her contract.

Sometimes the best parts of an organization's financials are not disclosed on the 990s.


----------



## N00B

espola said:


> For 2 hours a week.  And a couple of years ago noting was reported.  She must have renegotiated her contract.
> 
> Sometimes the best parts of an organization's financials are not disclosed on the 990s.


AB5 may have made the difference in reporting as an employee vs contractor?


----------



## espola

N00B said:


> AB5 may have made the difference in reporting as an employee vs contractor?


Possibly.  Their Other Salaries and Wages entry declined by about the same amount as her reported salary starting in 2017.


----------



## Goforgoal

SoulTrain said:


> I've seen the new girls coming over, it's not going to get any better this year.


Things are not going to change overnight. I expect similar team records across most of the age groups for the 21-22 season. I'd bet 22-23 shows meaningful improvement though. Either way, it should be fun to see how this all plays out. Even with the negatives of the DA, at least there was SOME bit of parity with Surf in San Diego on the girls side. Talented players were staying at clubs like Albion and LAGSD (City SC) and keeping old team bonds and/or staying closer to home as they were at least playing in a league with top tier competion. There was also decent geographic disperion between the three clubs. All that went to shit when the DA folded and created quite the mess.


----------



## Carlsbad7

Goforgoal said:


> Things are not going to change overnight. I expect similar team records across most of the age groups for the 21-22 season. I'd bet 22-23 shows meaningful improvement though. Either way, it should be fun to see how this all plays out. Even with the negatives of the DA, at least there was SOME bit of parity with Surf in San Diego on the girls side. Talented players were staying at clubs like Albion and LAGSD (City SC) and keeping old team bonds and/or staying closer to home as they were at least playing in a league with top tier competion. There was also decent geographic disperion between the three clubs. All that went to shit when the DA folded and created quite the mess.


DA was a "problem" that solved itself. NEXT will be interesting to see if it suffers a simular fate. Both have the same issue they formalize a path to something that doesnt care or necessarily value those in the formalized path. What I mean is that the USNT and Pro teams will pull players from wherever they want.

Reguarding Albion and CitySC. Both Surf and Sharks are right next to each other. If players decide to jump from GA/NEXT to ECNL commute times will be roughly the same either way.

I see Sharks finally getting their house in order as a huge benefit to SD players by opening up ECNL possibilities for 18+ players in each age group.

Also with Presidio being replaced by Socal/Scdsl we're finally going to have a single league for all Socal youngers. All goodness.


----------



## outside!

Carlsbad7 said:


> DA was a "problem" that solved itself. NEXT will be interesting to see if it suffers a simular fate. Both have the same issue they formalize a path to something that doesnt care or necessarily value those in the formalized path. What I mean is that the USNT and Pro teams will pull players from wherever they want.
> 
> Reguarding Albion and CitySC. Both Surf and Sharks are right next to each other. If players decide to jump from GA/NEXT to ECNL commute times will be roughly the same either way.
> 
> I see Sharks finally getting their house in order as a huge benefit to SD players by opening up ECNL possibilities for 18+ players in each age group.
> 
> Also with Presidio being replaced by Socal/Scdsl we're finally going to have a single league for all Socal youngers. All goodness.


Sorry, but in the long term ECNL is not good for the development of high end players. It is a monopoly whose main focus is protecting the interests of member clubs and lining the pocket books of those in charge. It causes local teams not to play one another and drive farther.


----------



## futboldad1

outside! said:


> Sorry, but in the long term ECNL is not good for the development of high end players. It is a monopoly whose main focus is protecting the interests of member clubs and lining the pocket books of those in charge. It causes local teams not to play one another and drive farther.


There’s definite merit to what you’re saying but whether you like it or not it puts 99% of the best players on teams that play each other….competition vs the best a key in sports development


----------



## SoulTrain

Carlsbad7 said:


> DA was a "problem" that solved itself. NEXT will be interesting to see if it suffers a simular fate. Both have the same issue they formalize a path to something that doesnt care or necessarily value those in the formalized path. What I mean is that the USNT and Pro teams will pull players from wherever they want.
> 
> Reguarding Albion and CitySC. Both Surf and Sharks are right next to each other. If players decide to jump from GA/NEXT to ECNL commute times will be roughly the same either way.
> 
> I see Sharks finally getting their house in order as a huge benefit to SD players by opening up ECNL possibilities for 18+ players in each age group.
> 
> Also with Presidio being replaced by Socal/Scdsl we're finally going to have a single league for all Socal youngers. All goodness.


Sharks biggest problem is field space...they don't have much and what they do have isn't very good or it's really expensive. Renting fields from the local high schools is getting more costly every year ($100 an hour if you can get them) and to put quality teams into ECNL you need decent places to practice.  Surf has the Polo Fields and City has plenty of high quality, large turf fields (Pine, Aviara, Poinsettia, Stagecoach).  Unless Sharks is able develop their own property it's really not going to get much better.  Does anyone really think top ECNL girls from Surf are going to jump to Sharks when they just beat them 8-0 in league play?  The girls they are going to get are not the the girls they want which is what is happening right now.


----------



## Carlsbad7

SoulTrain said:


> Sharks biggest problem is field space...they don't have much and what they do have isn't very good or it's really expensive. Renting fields from the local high schools is getting more costly every year ($100 an hour if you can get them) and to put quality teams into ECNL you need decent places to practice.  Surf has the Polo Fields and City has plenty of high quality, large turf fields (Pine, Aviara, Poinsettia, Stagecoach).  Unless Sharks is able develop their own property it's really not going to get much better.  Does anyone really think top ECNL girls from Surf are going to jump to Sharks when they just beat them 8-0 in league play?  The girls they are going to get are not the the girls they want which is what is happening right now.


The fields comment is a valid concern.

But, last I heard the same college recruiters are on the field when Surf + Sharks play.

Top players will get noticed (and likely recruited) no matter what team they're on. (within reason)


----------



## futboldad1

SoulTrain said:


> Sharks biggest problem is field space...they don't have much and what they do have isn't very good or it's really expensive. Renting fields from the local high schools is getting more costly every year ($100 an hour if you can get them) and to put quality teams into ECNL you need decent places to practice.  Surf has the Polo Fields and City has plenty of high quality, large turf fields (Pine, Aviara, Poinsettia, Stagecoach).  Unless Sharks is able develop their own property it's really not going to get much better.  Does anyone really think top ECNL girls from Surf are going to jump to Sharks when they just beat them 8-0 in league play?  The girls they are going to get are not the the girls they want which is what is happening right now.


I loved the polo fields but good coaches, leadership and players overcomes imperfect fields....... they've long been an issue for Real, Breakers, Arsenal and all outperform Sharks...... Eagles have much much better field access than say Beach but I know who my money is on...........


----------



## Goforgoal

SoulTrain said:


> Sharks biggest problem is field space...they don't have much and what they do have isn't very good or it's really expensive. Renting fields from the local high schools is getting more costly every year ($100 an hour if you can get them) and to put quality teams into ECNL you need decent places to practice.  Surf has the Polo Fields and City has plenty of high quality, large turf fields (Pine, Aviara, Poinsettia, Stagecoach).  Unless Sharks is able develop their own property it's really not going to get much better.  Does anyone really think top ECNL girls from Surf are going to jump to Sharks when they just beat them 8-0 in league play?  The girls they are going to get are not the the girls they want which is what is happening right now.


What you say is true, and one of the myriad of challenges the club faces. In fact, I think field space was a primary driver for Sharks considering the Surf affiliation a couple years back. If I recall, the ability to use the polo fields for training was going to be part of the deal. I'd have to assume nearby schools like Torrey Pines, Canyon Crest and Cathedral either aren't available or are too expensive. Shark's did have a high school field a while back but it was in Solana Beach I think and not ideal. It's a tough situation for sure, but things can change in a hurry as we know. And no, Sharks will not attract top players from Surf (unless those players/parents developed an issue with the club for whatever reason) and I highly doubt that is their goal or expectation anyways. There's tons of great players in San Diego outside Surf's top starting 11 though that can help build competitive teams and hone their game against some of the best teams in SoCal. Seems like a no brainer to me. Parents and players just have to see the forest through the trees and understand that losing games is not the end of the world or indicative of something overly negative.


----------



## outside!

futboldad1 said:


> There’s definite merit to what you’re saying but whether you like it or not it puts 99% of the best players on teams that play each other….competition vs the best a key in sports development


I agree that competition vs the best is the key, but your percentage is way too high. The bad parts of ECNL are the same with any monopoly except it applies to children. The best system was USYS National League and National Championships that provided a pathway for any team to challenge for the championship. Until they change their name to Elite Teams National League, ECNL will miss out on many potential top players who are geographically or financially challenged. USYS National League motto is "Earn Your Place" and by definition, individual ECNL teams do not.


----------



## watfly

Sombitch said:


> Shit this happened long before Deza
> 
> Two Vegas Studs and a Camarillo stud all did this on that 99 team for years
> 
> Never attended training and always started
> 
> That said all were part of the national team pool -


Our friend's daughter lived in Phoenix and regularly played games for Surf.  Not unusual at all.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati

Soccerfan2 said:


> $265K? That’s insane!


Seems like a lot of money to justify based on the clubs performance and the type of amount that if invested in hiring the right two or three people could make a huge impact on the DMCV product.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Seems like a lot of money to justify based on the clubs performance and the type of amount that if invested in hiring the right two or three people could make a huge impact on the DMCV product.


Seems like an insane amount of money for a youth soccer DOC period.


----------



## met61

Carlsbad7 said:


> DA was a "problem" that solved itself. NEXT will be interesting to see if it suffers a simular fate. Both have the same issue they formalize a path to something that doesnt care or necessarily value those in the formalized path. What I mean is that the USNT and Pro teams will pull players from wherever they want.
> 
> Reguarding Albion and CitySC. Both Surf and Sharks are right next to each other. If players decide to jump from GA/NEXT to ECNL commute times will be roughly the same either way.
> 
> I see Sharks finally getting their house in order as a huge benefit to SD players by opening up ECNL possibilities for 18+ players in each age group.
> 
> Also with Presidio being replaced by Socal/Scdsl we're finally going to have a single league for all Socal youngers. All goodness.


For being in Carlsbad, your info is lacking...you completely missed that SDSC Surf is GA and ECNL boys and one of the larger clubs in the area with plenty of very good talent... additionally, SD Force, although smaller and DPL also has some good talent (On a side note, word on the street is SD Force is struggling to survive post pandemic and may be folding into SDSC Surf)...and both of these clubs are in spitting distance of SD Surf & Sharks. If the Sharks (ie., MW) do this right, they'll have a huge talent pool to draw from and could give SD Surf ECNL some serious, and much needed competition in the area.

I predict that many Sharks parents who have been living comfortably numb at the bottom of ECNL are about to be overtaken by a wave of talented players.

We'll have to wait and see...but the next tryout season should be very interesting in North County SD.


----------



## MacDre

met61 said:


> For being in Carlsbad, your info is lacking...you completely missed that SDSC Surf is GA and ECNL boys and one of the larger clubs in the area with plenty of very good talent... additionally, SD Force, although smaller and DPL also has some good talent (On a side note, word on the street is SD Force is struggling to survive post pandemic and may be folding into SDSC Surf)...and both of these clubs are in spitting distance of SD Surf & Sharks. If the Sharks (ie., MW) do this right, they'll have a huge talent pool to draw from and could give SD Surf ECNL some serious, and much needed competition in the area.
> 
> I predict that many Sharks parents who have been living comfortably numb at the bottom of ECNL are about to be overtaken by a wave of talented players.
> 
> We'll have to wait and see...but the next tryout season should be very interesting in North County SD.


I think your reasoning is faulty because you assume these talented players exist.  Judging by the low level of D1 soccer and the inability of the vast majority of D1 teams to play a possession based game…why do you think these talented players exist?  Does your definition of talented players include the ability to not constantly over dribble, pass, and receive?

If it does, I want some of what you’re smoking on! Puff, puff, pass homie


----------



## LASTMAN14

MacDre said:


> I think your reasoning is faulty because you assume these talented players exist.  Judging by the low level of D1 soccer and the inability of the vast majority of D1 teams to play a possession based game…why do you think these talented players exist?  Does your definition of talented players include the ability to not constantly over dribble, pass, and receive?
> 
> If it does, I want some of what you’re smoking on! Puff, puff, pass homie


Isn't it puff, puff, give?


----------



## Carlsbad7

met61 said:


> For being in Carlsbad, your info is lacking...you completely missed that SDSC Surf is GA and ECNL boys and one of the larger clubs in the area with plenty of very good talent... additionally, SD Force, although smaller and DPL also has some good talent (On a side note, word on the street is SD Force is struggling to survive post pandemic and may be folding into SDSC Surf)...and both of these clubs are in spitting distance of SD Surf & Sharks. If the Sharks (ie., MW) do this right, they'll have a huge talent pool to draw from and could give SD Surf ECNL some serious, and much needed competition in the area.
> 
> I predict that many Sharks parents who have been living comfortably numb at the bottom of ECNL are about to be overtaken by a wave of talented players.
> 
> We'll have to wait and see...but the next tryout season should be very interesting in North County SD.


You got me there... I was exactly right except SDSC boys has ECNL. Good catch.


----------



## met61

Carlsbad7 said:


> You got me there... I was exactly right except SDSC boys has ECNL. Good catch.


You missed SDSC has GA as well... hope this helps.


----------



## met61

MacDre said:


> I think your reasoning is faulty because you assume these talented players exist.  Judging by the low level of D1 soccer and the inability of the vast majority of D1 teams to play a possession based game…why do you think these talented players exist?  Does your definition of talented players include the ability to not constantly over dribble, pass, and receive?
> 
> If it does, I want some of what you’re smoking on! Puff, puff, pass homie


Brilliant! You win again. *eye roll*


----------



## Carlsbad7

met61 said:


> You missed SDSC has GA as well... hope this helps.


I missed The GA teams because I wasn't accounting for them. I was only pointing out ECNL clubs.

It's going to be interesting to see how things play out this fall. I'm sure both ECNL + GA are looking to expand.


----------



## MacDre

met61 said:


> Brilliant! You win again. *eye roll*


I’m disappointed.  Is that the best you can do?  Let’s discuss these so called imaginary talented players that you speak of…


----------



## met61

Carlsbad7 said:


> I missed The GA teams because I wasn't accounting for them. I was only pointing out ECNL clubs.
> 
> It's going to be interesting to see how things play out this fall. I'm sure both ECNL + GA are looking to expand.


Actually, you have wrongly started a few times in this post that City & Albion are the GA in the area...not looking to offend, just for accuracy. Thanks


----------



## met61

MacDre said:


> I’m disappointed.  Is that the best you can do?  Let’s discuss these so called imaginary talented players that you speak of…


Nope, I don't use my best on the trivial...take your W on a victory lap. I'm tapping out Genius.


----------



## MacDre

met61 said:


> Nope, I don't use my best on the trivial...take your W on a victory lap. I'm tapping out Genius.


What W? I am asking a serious question that only requires honesty.  I am not asking for your best.
So, does your definition of talented player include players that don’t constantly over dribble, that can pass, and receive?


----------



## met61

MacDre said:


> What W? I am asking a serious question that only requires honesty.  I am not asking for your best.
> So, does your definition of talented player include players that don’t constantly over dribble, that can pass, and receive?


Yes.


----------



## MacDre

met61 said:


> Yes.


What’s your thoughts as to why the above type mentioned players are plentiful in the San Diego youth soccer ecosystem but are rare in D1 soccer?


----------



## met61

I've had zero exposure and experience with D1 soccer, thus no opinion regarding it.

Having been around football and baseball my whole life playing and coaching...and spectating soccer with my kids for over 15 years it is easy to understand that all sports have a handful of basic fundamentals...and when done well and combined with athleticism, speed, heart and IQ...then recognizing talent is an easy call...but, at the end of the day it's subjective, thus  whatever you think it is...You Win!


----------



## Brav520

met61 said:


> For being in Carlsbad, your info is lacking...you completely missed that SDSC Surf is GA and ECNL boys and one of the larger clubs in the area with plenty of very good talent... additionally, SD Force, although smaller and DPL also has some good talent (On a side note, word on the street is SD Force is struggling to survive post pandemic and may be folding into SDSC Surf)...and both of these clubs are in spitting distance of SD Surf & Sharks. If the Sharks (ie., MW) do this right, they'll have a huge talent pool to draw from and could give SD Surf ECNL some serious, and much needed competition in the area.
> 
> I predict that many Sharks parents who have been living comfortably numb at the bottom of ECNL are about to be overtaken by a wave of talented players.
> 
> We'll have to wait and see...but the next tryout season should be very interesting in North County SD.


that's unfortunate about SD force, there are some good teams in that club


----------



## outside!

MacDre said:


> What’s your thoughts as to why the above type mentioned players are plentiful in the San Diego youth soccer ecosystem but are rare in D1 soccer?


They exist in D1 soccer, but are often not encouraged to play that way.


----------



## met61

MacDre said:


> What’s your thoughts as to why the above type mentioned players are plentiful in the San Diego youth soccer ecosystem but are rare in D1 soccer?


Additionally, I recently saw a SoCal PDP list for SD, not sure where I saw it, but there were a few dozen very talented players on that list alone...not hard to find talent in SD.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Brav520 said:


> that's unfortunate about SD force, there are some good teams in that club


Nothing unfortunate about it at all.  Love to see this club go away (yes, I have a grudge). One of their coaches takes a shot on my kid during a scrimmage and breaks my kid's arm (she was supposed to travel the next week to KS to tryout for the national futsal team).   POS club president not only doesn't offer to step up and pay the medical bills, makes it more difficult to try to get my kid's medical bills covered by Cal South.  During National Cup, DD's coach decided at 1/2 time to scream at my kid that she was not playing well enough to play DA (she had accepted a DA spot with another club at tryouts and new future coach was watching the game from the sidelines); the coach failed to scream at any of the other 8 players that were also moving on to DA or ECNL clubs at the season's end - just my kid.  

In spite of that, my kid played through her commitment and National Cup - beating the DMCV team in the process.  Force can go F themselves.


----------



## FernandoFromNationalCity

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Nothing unfortunate about it at all.  Love to see this club go away (yes, I have a grudge). One of their coaches takes a shot on my kid during a scrimmage and breaks my kid's arm (she was supposed to travel the next week to KS to tryout for the national futsal team).   POS club president not only doesn't offer to step up and pay the medical bills, makes it more difficult to try to get my kid's medical bills covered by Cal South.  During National Cup, DD's coach decided at 1/2 time to scream at my kid that she was not playing well enough to play DA (she had accepted a DA spot with another club at tryouts and new future coach was watching the game from the sidelines); the coach failed to scream at any of the other 8 players that were also moving on to DA or ECNL clubs at the season's end - just my kid.
> 
> In spite of that, my kid played through her commitment and National Cup - beating the DMCV team in the process.  Force can go F themselves.


Love it!!!


----------



## OCSoccerDad3

Question for the rule wizards in the group: 

Can a player who is registered for ECNL at a club play down on ECRL on a given weekend even if she is not technically “double-rostered”? And vice versa (can ECRL player be brought up to ECNL at any time for one or more games without specifically being rostered on the ECNL team)?

Just wondering if there is really any value or selectivity to this whole dual-roster idea or if everyone (within the club) who is rostered as either ECNL or ECRL is actually able to float between the two teams on any given weekend.


----------



## Carlsbad10

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> Question for the rule wizards in the group:
> 
> Can a player who is registered for ECNL at a club play down on ECRL on a given weekend even if she is not technically “double-rostered”? And vice versa (can ECRL player be brought up to ECNL at any time for one or more games without specifically being rostered on the ECNL team)?


Per the recently released 21/22 rules, while each team (ECNL and ECRL) can roster a max of 30 players, with 18 on the game day roster, but the players can play in multiple ECNL competitions (ECNL and ECRL) as long as it is only one per day, and the players do not count against the other team's roster.  So effectively a club could have 60 players in an age group rostered and choose 18 per game for their ECNL games.


----------



## OCSoccerDad3

Carlsbad10 said:


> Per the recently released 21/22 rules, while each team (ECNL and ECRL) can roster a max of 30 players, with 18 on the game day roster, but the players can play in multiple ECNL competitions (ECNL and ECRL) as long as it is only one per day, and the players do not count against the other team's roster.  So effectively a club could have 60 players in an age group rostered and choose 18 per game for their ECNL games.


Ok, that was my hunch. So the "dual-roster" concept is somewhat irrelevant and is more of a sales pitch/gimmick. So long as a kid is on either ECRL or ECNL for their club, he/she can play on either team on any given weekend.


----------



## crush

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> Ok, that was my hunch. So the "dual-roster" concept is somewhat irrelevant and is more of a sales pitch/gimmick. So long as a kid is on either ECRL or ECNL for their club, he/she can play on either team on any given weekend.


It gives all the kids an opportunity to be an elite soccer player if they work hard, put in the time and have a great attitude.  I don't like it personally.  I would make all the girls tryout and then I would take 18-20 players for one top team and one top league ((fill in the blank)).  No discoveries, no college players and no inter club up & down shit.  This philosophy in the wrong hands can be used to manipulate 16 year old trying to figure out life.  It also takes away from "team" and girls like being on a team.  This is a player pool within the club so to speak.  The other players who dont make the cut, play in a different league but can stay in the club or try their luck somewhere else.  If you drop a player because their burned out or get a boyfriend and just want to be free, then a club should be able to add a player.  This is moo and just that.


----------



## lafalafa

Carlsbad10 said:


> Per the recently released 21/22 rules, while each team (ECNL and ECRL) can roster a max of 30 players, with 18 on the game day roster, but the players can play in multiple ECNL competitions (ECNL and ECRL) as long as it is only one per day, and the players do not count against the other team's roster.  So effectively a club could have 60 players in an age group rostered and choose 18 per game for their ECNL games.


30 is a much bigger number vs previous season but you still have to take up a roster spot and once done it's for the entire season.  For those on dual rosters they take up one slot per team.  Could be on 3 different teams buts that's 3 roster spots. 

No you can only have 30 on the roster, you can 60 players total only 30 total for the season per team.  A player could play ECRL & NL but that's two rosters spots taken.   Roster spots don't move with the player.


----------



## futboldad1

lafalafa said:


> 30 is a much bigger number vs previous season but you still have to take up a roster spot and once done it's for the entire season.  For those on dual rosters they take up one slot per team.  Could be on 3 different teams buts that's 3 roster spots.
> 
> No you can only have 30 on the roster, you can 60 players total only 30 total for the season per team.  A player could play ECRL & NL but that's two rosters spots taken.   Roster spots don't move with the player.


I think your post may be inaccurate.........It's been 30 per team for years..... I could be wrong but the fluidity to move between ECNL and RL without being rostered to both is new which is what has turned 30 into 60 per age group...... or 360 total for the six ECNL (180 max) and ECRL (180 max) rosters........ happy to be proved wrong b.t.w but this is my understanding........


----------



## lafalafa

futboldad1 said:


> I think your post may be inaccurate.........It's been 30 per team for years..... I could be wrong but the fluidity to move between ECNL and RL without being rostered to both is new which is what has turned 30 into 60 per age group...... or 360 total for the six ECNL (180 max) and ECRL (180 max) rosters........ happy to be proved wrong b.t.w but this is my understanding........


Was 26 at one point when our daughter played  but yeah 30 now on ECNL and heard it was fewer for ECRL but I don't know the details on that.

There is no fluidity

"No ECNL Registered Players may be dropped from an ECNL Roster during an ECNL Season, except pursuant to the Transfer Regulations... "

In reality a few players get on dual or multiple rosters at most places unless the coaches  are the same on both they normally don't share much.


----------



## futboldad1

lafalafa said:


> Was 26 at one point when our daughter played  but yeah 30 now on ECNL and heard it was fewer for ECRL but I don't know the details on that.
> 
> There is no fluidity
> 
> "No ECNL Registered Players may be dropped from an ECNL Roster during an ECNL Season, except pursuant to the Transfer Regulations... "
> 
> In reality a few players get on dual or multiple rosters at most places unless the coaches  are the same on both they normally don't share much.


Fluidity within the same club’s Ecnl and rl programs I mean…… 30 can be on each roster and moved back and forth making a pool of 60……. Previously a player needed a card for each league and so the total pool was 30 as they counted as a roster spot on each league….. I am pretty sure I am right on this…….


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## lafalafa

futboldad1 said:


> I think your post may be inaccurate.........It's been 30 per team for years..... I could be wrong but the fluidity to move between ECNL and RL without being rostered to both is new which is what has turned 30 into 60 per age group...... or 360 total for the six ECNL (180 max) and ECRL (180 max) rosters........ happy to be proved wrong b.t.w but this is my understanding........


You could be wrong:

'If a player within your ECNL Member Club is pulled up from a non-ECNL team and/or invited to play for the  ECNL team (even for one game), the player must be added to the ECNL season roster for the remainder  of  the  year.   Yes, the player will count towards the ECNL Season roster maximum (30 players in  all  age  groups).    In  saying that, the  player is  permitted  to  go back and play with her other team (nonECNL team) during the season.  "


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## futboldad1

lafalafa said:


> You could be wrong:
> 
> 'If a player within your ECNL Member Club is pulled up from a non-ECNL team and/or invited to play for the  ECNL team (even for one game), the player must be added to the ECNL season roster for the remainder  of  the  year.   Yes, the player will count towards the ECNL Season roster maximum (30 players in  all  age  groups).    In  saying that, the  player is  permitted  to  go back and play with her other team (nonECNL team) during the season.  "


Are you quoting from the ECNL 21-22 league rules?

Because I believe things have changed and rule 1.10 says the opposite to the above.......I'd copy and paste but it won't let me, but the 21-22 rules can be found online......


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## futboldad1

futboldad1 said:


> Are you quoting from the ECNL 21-22 league rules?
> 
> Because I believe things have changed and rule 1.10 says the opposite to the above.......I'd copy and paste but it won't let me, but the 21-22 rules can be found online......


Rule 2.2.1 confirms what I said above...... finally concluded this and can now get back to Cards versus Ole Miss grill prep


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## crush

lafalafa said:


> You could be wrong:
> 
> 'If a player within your ECNL Member Club is pulled up from a non-ECNL team and/or invited to play for the  ECNL team (even for one game), the player must be added to the ECNL season roster for the remainder  of  the  year.   Yes, the player will count towards the ECNL Season roster maximum (30 players in  all  age  groups).    In  saying that, the  player is  permitted  to  go back and play with her other team (nonECNL team) during the season.  "


Hey Lala, futbol dad 1 is on top of his information and where I go to get the scoop.  He is rarely wrong and the go to for the latest on ECNL.


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## Carlsbad7

Without tieing players to either ECNL/ECRL why have 2 leagues? It seems like the only real rule is that from the pool of 60 you can't have a single player do both an ECNL game and ECRL game on the same day.


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## Carlsbad7

Carlsbad7 said:


> Without tieing players to either ECNL/ECRL why have 2 leagues? It seems like the only real rule is that from the pool of 60 you can't have a single player do both an ECNL game and ECRL game on the same day.


What I mean is that as a club you treat both ECNL and ECRL the same by evaluating the teams played each week and allocate the players needed to win. If you're a super club this means the week your ECNL team is playing a poor club you shift all your best players to ECRL. Or if you get ahead in the ECNL standings you start playing top ECNL players in ECRL games to get both teams to nationals.

Heres another flip say a poor club wasnt doing well in ECNL but was ok in ECRL. Theres now incentive to give up on ECNL and just put your best in ECRL.

Above is what I mean by with a single pool why run to leagues?


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## crush

Carlsbad7 said:


> What I mean is that as a club you treat both ECNL and ECRL the same by evaluating the teams played each week and allocate the players needed to win. If you're a super club this means the week your ECNL team is playing a poor club you shift all your best players to ECRL. Or if you get ahead in the ECNL standings you start playing top ECNL players in ECRL games to get both teams to nationals.
> 
> Heres another flip say a poor club wasnt doing well in ECNL but was ok in ECRL. Theres now incentive to give up on ECNL and just put your best in ECRL.
> 
> Above is what I mean by with a single pool why run to leagues?


17-1 scores will not be uncommon in the future if what your saying happens and I think it will.  This sucks!!!  My dd old Blues 03/04 team was the end of staying on the same team for 8 years. TB did it right but he pissed off parents at the end of each year when their dd was cut.  He was blamed for not being a good developer of players and just a hell of a recruiter.  MOO, I think he was right.  Kids get burned out for all sorts of reasons in sports.  To tell a kid and their mama bear and papa bear that as long as you pay to play, work hard, stay out of trouble, get excellent grades and have high scores on SAT you will get what you want, is not true ganas competition from my perch, moo moo moo!!!  I want true competition and in the real world, players get cut just like companies usually whack the bottom 20% of sales force because.


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## lafalafa

lafalafa said:


> You could be wrong:
> 
> 'If a player within your ECNL Member Club is pulled up from a non-ECNL team and/or invited to play for the  ECNL team (even for one game), the player must be added to the ECNL season roster for the remainder  of  the  year.   Yes, the player will count towards the ECNL Season roster maximum (30 players in  all  age  groups).    In  saying that, the  player is  permitted  to  go back and play with her other team (nonECNL team) during the season.  "





futboldad1 said:


> Are you quoting from the ECNL 21-22 league rules?
> 
> Because I believe things have changed and rule 1.10 says the opposite to the above.......I'd copy and paste but it won't let me, but the 21-22 rules can be found online......


From the FAQ

The opposite is not true for non ECNL players.

For ECNL players the team they registered to intially count as a taking up a roster spot.  If they play from another team in the club they don't count as a taking up a additional roster spot, yes we agree on that.

However,  in reality  if you really had 60 players for two teams, ~ half won't be playing each week and the players and parents won't be happy or put up with that too long.   Not to mention the registration fees, you would need a another league to play those players in and the dual roster is not within ECNL thus your taking up roster spots in both those leagues since you can't play ECNL without being on a roster that count toward the totals of 30 per team ant way you slice it. 

Nobody is going to bother to shuffle a large of players each week to somehow can some muster up some sort of advantage.  A few player perhaps just like every year or those playing up but if clubs abuse the new rules they will be changed likely so much to do about nothing and we will see.


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## Carlsbad7

lafalafa said:


> Nobody is going to bother to shuffle a large of players each week to somehow can some muster up some sort of advantage.  A few player perhaps just like every year or those playing up but if clubs abuse the new rules they will be changed likely so much to do about nothing and we will see.


Your statement about nobody is going to shuffle players around each week doesn't make sense. Surf has already stated that they're moving to pool play. Working from the pool on a weekly basis + trying to define the best player combo to make the win is exactly what they intend to do. 

The only piece that isn't clear is if clubs will sacrifice ECNL performance to boost ECRL when needed. But why wouldn't you if a couple of ECNL games are "in the bag" and the end goal is to always win. (Maybe you wouldn't want to risk your top team losing to a poor top team.)


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## lafalafa

Carlsbad7 said:


> Your statement about nobody is going to shuffle players around each week doesn't make sense. Surf has already stated that they're moving to pool play. Working from the pool on a weekly basis + trying to define the best player combo to make the win is exactly what they intend to do.
> 
> The only piece that isn't clear is if clubs will sacrifice ECNL performance to boost ECRL when needed. But why wouldn't you if a couple of ECNL games are "in the bag" and the end goal is to always win. (Maybe you wouldn't want to risk your top team losing to a poor top team.)


Let's see if they actually do that and how it might work out.  Seen it attempted several times with reserve teams but have yet to see it work out successfully.   What ends up happening is both teams and the reserve or 2nd team suffers, players and parents get pissed, some jump ship and the whole thing is a cluster and then it's back to normal sooner or later.

Having a different lineup with different players each week normally doesn't make for a happy group of players who count on, rely, and pull for each other.   Maybe surf can make everyone happy but I will believed it when I see it.


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## GT45

Carlsbad7 said:


> What I mean is that as a club you treat both ECNL and ECRL the same by evaluating the teams played each week and allocate the players needed to win. If you're a super club this means the week your ECNL team is playing a poor club you shift all your best players to ECRL. Or if you get ahead in the ECNL standings you start playing top ECNL players in ECRL games to get both teams to nationals.
> 
> Heres another flip say a poor club wasnt doing well in ECNL but was ok in ECRL. Theres now incentive to give up on ECNL and just put your best in ECRL.
> 
> Above is what I mean by with a single pool why run to leagues?


This is ludicrous. Injuries happen frequently when you have a mismatch in talent on the pitch. A player is too slow to stop the more talented player and comes in late on a tackle, etc. This is why HS soccer injuries are so prevelent. 

And, go tell a top player at a top club that they are playing a B league game this week and see how that works for you. 

Culture and camaraderie matter if you want to compete at a high level and have fun doing it. This is supposed to be fun afterall. Moving players around is inconvenient and not much fun for the players and families.


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## Soccergirl

A little late to respond, but anybody who knows MW knows how extremly competative and proffesional he is. His players work hard for him and he can devlop the hell out of them. Albion lost the best thing they had going on the girls side. The 09 and 2010 team followed and it looks like 2008 is close behind, the first G08 Albion player just left for sharks and I am sure more Albion 2008s are sure to follow along with other players from other clubs. My gut is Albion becomes a flight 2 club for the girls division and Sharks takes off. It is a good thing for girls soccer in San Diego, giving players 3 solid options for ECNL. Power move by Sharks and MW. Love it.


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## WestOfFive

Soccergirl said:


> A little late to respond, but anybody who knows MW knows how extremly competative and proffesional he is. His players work hard for him and he can devlop the hell out of them. Albion lost the best thing they had going on the girls side. The 09 and 2010 team followed and it looks like 2008 is close behind, the first G08 Albion player just left for sharks and I am sure more Albion 2008s are sure to follow along with other players from other clubs. My gut is Albion becomes a flight 2 club for the girls division and Sharks takes off. It is a good thing for girls soccer in San Diego, giving players 3 solid options for ECNL. Power move by Sharks and MW. Love it.


We left last week and are heading over to play for SM.


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## Kicker4Life

Good to hear they are building for the future. I felt horrible for the 10 girls who showed up to play for the u18/19 team.  The 11th didn’t show until 15 min into the game.


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## futboldad1

Kicker4Life said:


> Good to hear they are building for the future. I felt horrible for the 10 girls who showed up to play for the u18/19 team.  The 11th didn’t show until 15 min into the game.


that's just sad especially for the girls who care.....what a mess......I know scores can get crooked in a hurry with such good opponents in this league but no older ECNL team should be losing 9-0 unless their goalie gets sent off in the first 20 minutes.......this isn't a summer showcase where teams may still be feeling vacation vibes.....0 points and a negative 20 goal differential only 3 games into league AND somehow short handed already is no bueno Sharks........


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## Kicker4Life

futboldad1 said:


> that's just sad especially for the girls who care.....what a mess......I know scores can get crooked in a hurry with such good opponents in this league but no older ECNL team should be losing 9-0 unless their goalie gets sent off in the first 20 minutes.......this isn't a summer showcase where teams may still be feeling vacation vibes.....0 points and a negative 20 goal differential only 3 games into league AND somehow short handed already is no bueno Sharks........


I tip my hat to their Keeper…..she played with a ton of heart despite the pressure she was clearly under. 

Honestly, I tip my hat to all 11 who gutted that game out.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Kicker4Life said:


> I tip my hat to their Keeper…..she played with a ton of heart despite the pressure she was clearly under.
> 
> Honestly, I tip my hat to all 11 who gutted that game out.


My DD played with some of the young women on that roster, and I would imagine that they fought until the final whistle. Much respect to all who continue to fight and compete.


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## futboldad1

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> My DD played with some of the young women on that roster, and I would imagine that they fought until the final whistle. Much respect to all who continue to fight and compete.


1000%......if only the coaching staff cared as much to both coach up and compile proper rosters.....here's hoping these kids get better support their next games.....


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## Sunil Illuminati

futboldad1 said:


> 1000%......if only the coaching staff cared as much to both coach up and compile proper rosters.....here's hoping these kids get better support their next games.....


No excuse to have an 11 player roster on the second or third game of the season. Club is poorly run.


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## crush

Sunil Illuminati said:


> No excuse to have an 11 player roster on the second or third game of the season. Club is poorly run.


Harsh folks.  Let's all give the girls credit for showing up.  My pal dd was on a U18/19 team that played girl down.  Some girls went on recruiting trips, some were injured and some said no mas and just quit mid season.  Gees you guys, cut these girls some mercy.  I wish the Sharks players 100% the best and this MW coach, good luck sir.


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## Goforgoal

Sunil Illuminati said:


> No excuse to have an 11 player roster on the second or third game of the season. Club is *WAS* poorly run.


Fixed that for you. The winds of change are a blowin.


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## crush

I dedicate this song to all the Shark players and the rest of us who are looking for a change in the wind.  May all your "wind of change" come true for you as mine just did.


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## Carlsbad7

Goforgoal said:


> Fixed that for you. The winds of change are a blowin.


I wish I could relay how poorly things were run before Mike was brought on as the girls DOC. 

What sucks is that everyone knew what was going on but there was nothing they could do if they pressed for success.

Personally I blame the Board for allowing losing to become the clubs culture. People in specific leadership positions should have been removed from service years ago.

On a positive note things are changing very fast at Sharks and Surf has pissed off enough people that theres going to be opportunities.


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## Kicker4Life

crush said:


> Harsh folks.  Let's all give the girls credit for showing up.  My pal dd was on a U18/19 team that played girl down.  Some girls went on recruiting trips, some were injured and some said no mas and just quit mid season.  Gees you guys, cut these girls some mercy.  I wish the Sharks players 100% the best and this MW coach, good luck sir.


No one has bad mouthed the kids….only the operators.


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## OCSoccerDad3

Looks like MW's 2009 Sharks team that came over from Albion has won 1 and lost 2 in ECNL play so far. Goes to show how challenging this league and the Southwest Division really is.


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## Goforgoal

OCSoccerDad3 said:


> Looks like MW's 2009 Sharks team that came over from Albion has won 1 and lost 2 in ECNL play so far. Goes to show how challenging this league and the Southwest Division really is.


Of course it's challenging. That's the whole point. But you have to ask yourself .. what would those score lines have been with the original Sharks 09s? We'll never know, but a 0-1 loss to Beach might have been 0-3 or 4? That team also has some 2010s playing there, which will likely change next year as the 2010 ECNL team fills out. All of Albion's 2010s who moved over are playing up for now. As I've said before, improvements aren't going to happen overnight, but I'd bet there will be, particularly as the younger ages age up and through and teams continue to add new players.


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## met61

MW + disgruntled Surf players + SD Force probably folding + top SDSC, Albion & City SC players wanting ECNL over GA = CAS SEISMIC SHIFT!

...grab your popcorn.


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## N00B

met61 said:


> MW + disgruntled Surf players + SD Force probably folding + top SDSC, Albion & City SC players wanting ECNL over GA = CAS SEISMIC SHIFT!
> 
> ...grab your popcorn.


I think that’s more clubs than potentially available roster spots!


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## met61

N00B said:


> I think that’s more clubs than potentially available roster spots!


Quality vs. Quantity


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## N00B

met61 said:


> Quality vs. Quantity


A lot of disgruntled ‘Quality’ out there worthy of roster spots?  If so, that sounds more like a wholesale substitution.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper

met61 said:


> SD Force probably folding


What is happening with Force?


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## met61

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> What is happening with Force?


Heard from a friend in that area...they probably won't make it beyond this season...combination of pandemic and nothing to offer beyond DPL.


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## crush

met61 said:


> Heard from a friend in that area...they probably won't make it beyond this season...combination of pandemic and nothing to offer beyond DPL.


Heard it from friend as well bro.  This is cut throat.  I also heard from a pal that MW is the real deal and will be a great option for the locals who still want to do other things besides soccer 24/7, 365 days out of the year.  Plus, I'm sure MW will allow for HSS?  Deza is something different and rightfully so.  Like the great Maps once said, their are probably only 3, 5 star players per age group in Socal.  The rest are 4 star players and then all the rest are 3 star.  5 and 4 star should go to Deza to learn two touch and look to represent the USA some day.  Most of the 4's and 3's can play HSS and other sports and look to sneak up on the 5s some day later maybe.  Some 4's can become 5's if they want to work super duper hard and give up there're hole life but dont and some 3's could become 4's, but not 5s.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper

met61 said:


> Heard from a friend in that area...they probably won't make it beyond this season...combination of pandemic and nothing to offer beyond DPL.


Tough position geographically; literally practice on the same fields as SDSC.  Rebels picked up ECNL.  Surf and DMCV are a short drive.  
My DD played there for 1 year.  When she left another 7 players also left.  The following year they lost another 7.  Losing 15 players off of any team is going to leave a mark.


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## crush

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Tough position geographically; literally practice on the same fields as SDSC.  Rebels picked up ECNL.  Surf and DMCV are a short drive.
> My DD played there for 1 year.  When she left another 7 players also left.  The following year they lost another 7.  Losing 15 players off of any team is going to leave a mark.


That was the past.  New Sherriff in town to help clean the mess up in youth soccer.  I just got off the phone with a contact who lives in Encinitas.  MW is here to stay and a really good man + good coach= good times for the kids & parents.  Bad man + bad coach= bad times for kids & parents.


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## N00B

I know this is a DMCV Sharks thread, but are we still calling that other club down the street SDSC now that they’re part of the Surf franchise?


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## crush

N00B said:


> I know this is a DMCV Sharks thread, but are we still calling that other club down the street SDSC now that they’re part of the Surf franchise?


SDSSC sounds good to me


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## met61

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Tough position geographically; literally practice on the same fields as SDSC.  Rebels picked up ECNL.  Surf and DMCV are a short drive.
> My DD played there for 1 year.  When she left another 7 players also left.  The following year they lost another 7.  Losing 15 players off of any team is going to leave a mark.


Yeah, that's what I've heard... Too many clubs on top of each other dilutes the talent pool. MW will definitely shake up that area...potentially a good thing for all, will have to see what comes of it.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper

N00B said:


> I know this is a DMCV Sharks thread, but are we still calling that other club down the street SDSC now that they’re part of the Surf franchise?


It was SDSC when my kid was at Force.  I don't care what you (or anyone) calls them. Not trying to be snarky, just truly don't care.


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## Goforgoal

N00B said:


> I know this is a DMCV Sharks thread, but are we still calling that other club down the street SDSC now that they’re part of the Surf franchise?


Well, their official club name is now SDSC Surf, so yeah I still call them SDSC. I probably always will.


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## BIGD

SD Loyal today announced Shannon MacMillan as their Vice President of Community Relations.  Is this a part time gig alongside her other job?  Or is there a Sharks update coming?


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## Carlsbad7

BIGD said:


> SD Loyal today announced Shannon MacMillan as their Vice President of Community Relations.  Is this a part time gig alongside her other job?  Or is there a Sharks update coming?


I'm hoping for an announcement. 

Currently the DMCV Sharks website lists Shannon as "Executive Director & Coach" it would be a *huge conflict of interest* to try and be Loyal's Vice President of Community Relations and Sharks Executive Director & Coach at the same time.

If running both jobs is Shannons plan it's the Boards responsibility to replace her with someone that can focus all their attention on Sharks only.


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## futboldad1

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> It was SDSC when my kid was at Force.  I don't care what you (or anyone) calls them. Not trying to be snarky, just truly don't care.


lol I am the same when it comes to Carlsbad as I can't / won't keep up with that many changes


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## Sunil Illuminati

Carlsbad7 said:


> I'm hoping for an announcement.
> 
> Currently the DMCV Sharks website lists Shannon as "Executive Director & Coach" it would be a *huge conflict of interest* to try and be Loyal's Vice President of Community Relations and Sharks Executive Director & Coach at the same time.
> 
> If running both jobs is Shannons plan it's the Boards responsibility to replace her with someone that can focus all their attention on Sharks only.


DMCV executive director would be the most applied for job in Youth Soccer if the salary stays the same.


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## MicPaPa

futboldad1 said:


> lol I am the same when it comes to Carlsbad as I can't / won't keep up with that many changes


No matter what their name is, Carlsbad will always be known for having the pettiest and nastiest sidelines.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper

You guys are being too harsh on DMCV, they were voted best Kids Sports League in North County.  Take a look at their facebook page: 
"Nine consecutive years!    The @dmcvsharks have been awarded the Best Kids Sports League by the Best of North County Readers Poll!   Great job Sharks!! @bestofnorthcountysd"  

Someone should let ECNL know.


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