# Feeling Blues - Relegation Time



## RiverArsenal (Mar 26, 2019)

Eagles notified they will not be invited back to GDA next year due to performance over the first two seasons (see "all in ecnl" as eagles try to spin as a positive).

Expect to see an "all in" announcement from Blues as they were also notified they would not be asked back to the GDA (not representative of US Soccer programming).

DA shortening the roster to make for a more exclusive league. Expect to see a couple more relegations.


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## Soccer43 (Mar 26, 2019)

Well this will be entertaining.


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## Soccer43 (Mar 26, 2019)

Actually, I am a little confused - there are other clubs that have done worse than Eagles in the DA.  LA Premier and Albion seem to have worse records across the age groupings.


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## Pitch pop (Mar 26, 2019)

RiverArsenal said:


> Eagles notified they will not be invited back to GDA next year due to performance over the first two seasons (see "all in ecnl" as eagles try to spin as a positive).
> 
> Expect to see an "all in" announcement from Blues as they were also notified they would not be asked back to the GDA (not representative of US Soccer programming).
> 
> DA shortening the roster to make for a more exclusive league. Expect to see a couple more relegations.


I think you may be the one who is trying to spin it. I doubt DA is looking to “relegate” at the same time they are losing big clubs nationally. Good try though.


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## Kicknit22 (Mar 27, 2019)

Come on relegation!  Come on relegation!  Fingers crossed, lol.


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## Overlap (Mar 27, 2019)

RiverArsenal said:


> Eagles notified they will not be invited back to GDA next year due to performance over the first two seasons (see "all in ecnl" as eagles try to spin as a positive).
> 
> Expect to see an "all in" announcement from Blues as they were also notified they would not be asked back to the GDA (not representative of US Soccer programming).
> 
> DA shortening the roster to make for a more exclusive league. Expect to see a couple more relegations.


LA Breakers next?


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## Dargle (Mar 27, 2019)

Overlap said:


> LA Breakers next?


Do you mean LA Breakers will be "relegated" from ECNL?  

They just got Boys ECNL, which means they are technically "all in," although they never have had DA for Boys or Girls (or even applied as far as I know), so the "all in" designation doesn't really mean as much.  The interesting dynamic there is that while some older girls returned to LA Breakers this year who had been driving far to go to other ECNL or GDA clubs and a couple of those older teams did well, the younger ages were a different story.  The former Westside Breakers younger teams were mostly Flight 2, but ECNL forced them to enter their "top" team in each age group and the results were predictable (uniformly at the bottom).  Definitely some grumbling and trying out elsewhere for parents of kids of those teams who were losing every weekend and forced to endure high costs and travel to do so.  Some of the boys teams are stronger, but the prestige of Boys ECNL lags pretty far behind the Girls, so it will be interesting to see if people find the added travel weekends for league games and showcases worth it, especially at the younger ages.


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## ToonArmy (Mar 27, 2019)

Dargle said:


> Do you mean LA Breakers will be "relegated" from ECNL?
> 
> They just got Boys ECNL, which means they are technically "all in," although they never have had DA for Boys or Girls (or even applied as far as I know), so the "all in" designation doesn't really mean as much.  The interesting dynamic there is that while some older girls returned to LA Breakers this year who had been driving far to go to other ECNL or GDA clubs and a couple of those older teams did well, the younger ages were a different story.  The former Westside Breakers younger teams were mostly Flight 2, but ECNL forced them to enter their "top" team in each age group and the results were predictable (uniformly at the bottom).  Definitely some grumbling and trying out elsewhere for parents of kids of those teams who were losing every weekend and forced to endure high costs and travel to do so.  Some of the boys teams are stronger, but the prestige of Boys ECNL lags pretty far behind the Girls, so it will be interesting to see if people find the added travel weekends for league games and showcases worth it, especially at the younger ages.


And now they have to field ECNL 2 teams


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## beachbum (Mar 27, 2019)

RiverArsenal said:


> Eagles notified they will not be invited back to GDA next year due to performance over the first two seasons (see "all in ecnl" as eagles try to spin as a positive).
> 
> Expect to see an "all in" announcement from Blues as they were also notified they would not be asked back to the GDA (not representative of US Soccer programming).
> 
> DA shortening the roster to make for a more exclusive league. Expect to see a couple more relegations.


I believe you have your facts wrongs, Eagles chose to leave they were not asked to leave.  If Blues or any others in the SW conference leave they will choose to leave, they have not been asked.  They have been asked to choose ECNL or DA which will affect about 5 other clubs nationally.   Expect to see further announcements that choose only DA or ECNL


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## focomoso (Mar 27, 2019)

beachbum said:


> They have been asked to choose ECNL or DA which will affect about 5 other clubs nationally.   Expect to see further announcements that choose only DA or ECNL


Is this only on the girls side? Premier boys has both ECNL and DA and is going forward as if this will continue next year.


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## Dargle (Mar 27, 2019)

focomoso said:


> Is this only on the girls side? Premier boys has both ECNL and DA and is going forward as if this will continue next year.


Do they have them both at the same age groups?  I thought this year that they had 2007 and 2006 Boys DA, with ECNL starting at 2005.  Girls had GDA and DPL, but no ECNL.  I may be wrong though.  That's only from a perusal of the website.


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## Messi>CR7 (Mar 27, 2019)

focomoso said:


> Is this only on the girls side? Premier boys has both ECNL and DA and is going forward as if this will continue next year.


I think this is only the dynamics on the girls side.  For boys, team A of a particular club plays DA, and team B plays ECNL and everyone is somewhat ok with that.  On the girls side, both DA and ECNL want clubs to commit their A team to their respective league.

Basically lots of changes every year without any actual/tangible benefits to the kids.


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## focomoso (Mar 27, 2019)

Dargle said:


> Do they have them both at the same age groups?  I thought this year that they had 2007 and 2006 Boys DA, with ECNL starting at 2005.  Girls had GDA and DPL, but no ECNL.  I may be wrong though.  That's only from a perusal of the website.


Next year, they're slated to have boys DA U13 and U14 and boys ECNL U12, 13, 14.


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## RiverArsenal (Mar 27, 2019)

beachbum said:


> I believe you have your facts wrongs, Eagles chose to leave they were not asked to leave.  If Blues or any others in the SW conference leave they will choose to leave, they have not been asked.  They have been asked to choose ECNL or DA which will affect about 5 other clubs nationally.   Expect to see further announcements that choose only DA or ECNL


Ask Blues if they recieved a call from US Soccer two days ago. That will prove me right or wrong...


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## timbuck (Mar 27, 2019)

RiverArsenal said:


> Ask Blues if they recieved a call from US Soccer two days ago. That will prove me right or wrong...


You can’t quit.  You’re fired!!!

Or

“I was going to break up with her anyway”


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## Pitch pop (Mar 27, 2019)

RiverArsenal said:


> Ask Blues if they recieved a call from US Soccer two days ago. That will prove me right or wrong...


Do we just look up blues in the phone book, call them and ask if they got a call from US Soccer 2 days ago. I’m sure that would work.


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## Frank (Mar 27, 2019)

I have no inside knowledge of anything, however Considering Blues is part of FCGS now my guess is that they have become more DA aligned, not less.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Mar 27, 2019)

I think it's sad how US Soccer and ECNL seem to be at war with each other rather than trying to find a long-term solution that will best fill the needs for youth soccer and US national teams.  Feel bad for the kids that are impacted with this ever-constantly changing landscape.  I think more of the responsibility falls on US Soccer as they are the governing body.


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## Johnbsail (Mar 27, 2019)

I guess only the directors of Eagles will turly know if they got kicked out the DA or decided to leave and go “all in” with ECNL. 

However, Blues have won an ECNL championship in the last year and can remain in the ECNL for another three years regarldess of their results (see ECNL bylaws). Therefor, Blues have a unique situation compared to the likes of Eagles or even Surf as they’re the only club that won’t be forced to make a decision by ECNL to go either way. 

Therefore, if Blues decides to go “all in” with ECNL it can’t be because ECNL is forcing them to make a decision and more so that DA has forced them instead. 

I think it would make a big statement by US Soccer to kick the likes of blues out for playing their B teams in the DA.


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## Johnbsail (Mar 27, 2019)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> I think it's sad how US Soccer and ECNL seem to be at war with each other rather than trying to find a long-term solution that will best fill the needs for youth soccer and US national teams.  Feel bad for the kids that are impacted with this ever-constantly changing landscape.  I think more of the responsibility falls on US Soccer as they are the governing body.


I couldn’t agree more with you. It’s a shame people aren’t putting the players first in this process. 

I do believe that the ECNL started this though “war” thiugh. Dictating clubs to do things without considering what was right for each individual club let alone the players. Instead, thier tactics only plays into what is best for their brand and ultimatley thier pocket. Naturally US Soccer are now standing up and won’t allow themselves to get walked all over. 

Just remember that the DA was created ex players and coaches and some of the best talent this nation has seen, not an old attorney looking to line his pocket.


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## MWN (Mar 27, 2019)

Johnbsail said:


> I couldn’t agree more with you. It’s a shame people aren’t putting the players first in this process.
> 
> I do believe that the ECNL started this though “war” thiugh. Dictating clubs to do things without considering what was right for each individual club let alone the players. Instead, thier tactics only plays into what is best for their brand and ultimatley thier pocket. Naturally US Soccer are now standing up and won’t allow themselves to get walked all over.
> 
> Just remember that the DA was created ex players and coaches and some of the best talent this nation has seen, not an old attorney looking to line his pocket.


I don't think this is accurate.

ECNL - 10 year history of growing the girls game and making the league the premiere league in the Nation, while at the same time allowing their players to play high school.

Girls DA - "Hay, hay, hay!!!! We are here"  "F' the ECNL, we are now the top league because ... we are US Soccer.  Listen up ladies ... no HS soccer and you need to basically dedicate your life and social life to Girls Soccer where if you are really, super lucky and good, you can be a "professional woman's" soccer player making minimum wage."  "Did we mention ... F' the ECNL you have to play for us or you won't be looked at for the National Team????" 

no ... Girls DA started the war.


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## Johnbsail (Mar 27, 2019)

Agreed that ECNL was the premier league in the nation and they did a great job of providing the girls a platform to compete nationally. 

The realitiy is, USA is underperforming massively in comparison to other nations. Look at every other countries development models, they have thier players attending schools at the soccer facilities and training up to 10+ hours a week. 

US soccer are just trying to provide the best platform for players that want to be the best. Now some players don’t want to be the best and if playing awful HS Soccer and having more days off is more important, then ECNL is a great platform. For me, and it’s just an opinion, the DA provides a platform that will allow our young athletes to be as good as they can! 

When there was no DA I know of 20+ players that chose not to play HS soccer and instead train with boys DA or other revenues. The DA was created for players like them who want to be the best. It’s not for everyone, I understand.


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## Sidekick (Mar 28, 2019)

Johnbsail said:


> Agreed that ECNL was the premier league in the nation and they did a great job of providing the girls a platform to compete nationally.
> 
> The realitiy is, USA is underperforming massively in comparison to other nations. Look at every other countries development models, they have thier players attending schools at the soccer facilities and training up to 10+ hours a week.
> 
> ...



US Soccer is underperforming not because of ECNL and playing HS. It’s underperforming because some players might be amazing when they are the superstar but struggle amongst superstars!!  DA doesn’t make them better! The player makes themselves better by individual goals and extra training!!  Another thing is that the US coaches keep calling in the same players that are making the same mistakes instead of bringing in fresh faces that don’t have the egos and want to work hard as a team and not for their individual accolades!!  US Soccer  really needs to change things up. They need to show that there are no guarantees you’ll get an invite back unless you work really hard at being a team!!  There are so many players that deserve the call but because they play for the team that’s hundreds of miles away from that top ECNL/DA team, they’ll probably not get a look til in college!  If they were to do things right, they’d have open tryouts.  Think of all those inner city kids or small town kids that could dominate the game if someone just saw what they could do.  I think you’d see some real hidden talent show up and it would really show how much that US soccer cares about the players and NOT the league they came from.


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## MWN (Mar 28, 2019)

Johnbsail said:


> Agreed that ECNL was the premier league in the nation and they did a great job of providing the girls a platform to compete nationally.
> 
> The realitiy is, USA is underperforming massively in comparison to other nations. Look at every other countries development models, they have thier players attending schools at the soccer facilities and training up to 10+ hours a week.
> 
> ...


We are talking girls, not boys.  The US is not "underperforming massively" on the girls level because Girls around the world have very little opportunity AND in the US, college soccer is where development continues after the youth game.  Indeed, many girls from all over the world come to the US to continue to train and get an education.  Things are changing abroad with fully funded development academies for girls that are either nationally sponsored or sponsored in association with a "profitable" men's team/league.

The US women will slowly lose their dominance, not because of youth development, but because of post-youth development.

The boy's side is a completely different analysis given the physiological differences between boys and girls and the availability of a profitable professional option in the US, but mainly outside the US.  Its a huge mistake to look at the boys development model both physiologically and economically and say ... this will work for the girls, which is really what US Soccer did with the Girls DA.


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## Just A Dad (Mar 28, 2019)

Johnbsail said:


> Agreed that ECNL was the premier league in the nation and they did a great job of providing the girls a platform to compete nationally.
> 
> The realitiy is, USA is underperforming massively in comparison to other nations. Look at every other countries development models, they have thier players attending schools at the soccer facilities and training up to 10+ hours a week.
> 
> ...


So wouldnt those 20+ players who didnt play high school benefit more training with boys during the high school season? why start a league for so few who still have an avenue to train and in most cases train with bettter talent for a few months if they are training with boys DA.  I think USA has plenty of soccer talent on the womens side the problem is US soccer doesnt pick the best players all the time. The only thing DA did was make US Soccer lazier when it comes to scouting talent across the USA.


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## outside! (Mar 28, 2019)

If ECNL had not been colluding with member clubs to limit competition in SoCal, GDA would not have had the opportunity to become dominant in SoCal. ECNL seems to be offering a better product at this moment in time, but it still has the same corrupt management in place. Not that DA is any better.

I bet if SoCal were to withdraw from both leagues and act like it's own country, it could field girls "National" teams that would be better than the current youth national teams.


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

MWN said:


> We are talking girls, not boys.  The US is not "underperforming massively" on the girls level because Girls around the world have very little opportunity AND in the US, college soccer is where development continues after the youth game.  Indeed, many girls from all over the world come to the US to continue to train and get an education.  Things are changing abroad with fully funded development academies for girls that are either nationally sponsored or sponsored in association with a "profitable" men's team/league.
> 
> The US women will slowly lose their dominance, not because of youth development, but because of post-youth development.
> 
> The boy's side is a completely different analysis given the physiological differences between boys and girls and the availability of a profitable professional option in the US, but mainly outside the US.  Its a huge mistake to look at the boys development model both physiologically and economically and say ... this will work for the girls, which is really what US Soccer did with the Girls DA.


We have never been better than other countries on the women's side in terms of development. We have more youth participation for girls than the next 5 countries combined. We have title IX as well. It is the same situation with Socal vs other cities in the southwest, more kids equals better teams not better development.


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## wc_baller (Mar 28, 2019)

Johnbsail said:


> When there was no DA I know of 20+ players that chose not to play HS soccer and instead train with boys DA or other revenues. The DA was created for players like them who want to be the best. It’s not for everyone, I understand.


This is exactly why support for GDA is trending downwards across the country. Clubs are choosing to leave because there aren't many of those types of players around who would sacrifice so much for so little potential gain. Paying top dollar, giving up extracurricular activities, missing school  and social events for the potential of making a few thousand bucks a year as a professional soccer player. Looks like much of the country is saying no thanks to that.


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

outside! said:


> If ECNL had not been colluding with member clubs to limit competition in SoCal, GDA would not have had the opportunity to become dominant in SoCal. ECNL seems to be offering a better product at this moment in time, but it still has the same corrupt management in place. Not that DA is any better.
> 
> I bet if SoCal were to withdraw from both leagues and act like it's own country, it could field girls "National" teams that would be better than the current youth national teams.


So the girls in socal are discriminated against? If you look at the best players ever for US women's soccer over the last 30 years you won't find many socal players on the list. Denver Colorado produces more high level players than socal on the women's side and the population is 10% of socal. I would take that bet all day.


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## MarkM (Mar 28, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> So the girls in socal are discriminated against? If you look at the best players ever for US women's soccer over the last 30 years you won't find many socal players on the list. Denver Colorado produces more high level players than socal on the women's side and the population is 10% of socal. I would take that bet all day.


Colorado has as many players on the team as San Dimas, CA.  I think San Dimas has a population that is 0.5% of Colorado's population.  Several other states and No Cal have many more players on the team than Colorado.


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## outside! (Mar 28, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> So the girls in socal are discriminated against? If you look at the best players ever for US women's soccer over the last 30 years you won't find many socal players on the list. Denver Colorado produces more high level players than socal on the women's side and the population is 10% of socal. I would take that bet all day.


To be honest, past history means just about nothing in this context. It all comes down to numbers. The population of SoCal is bigger than all of Colorado. SoCal has a high concentration of female players in a relatively small area. Due to this we could form our own "Elite" league that would minimize travel and have enough teams for meaningful competition. It would also allow the formation of an "All Star" team that could train together frequently to enable them to play as a "team", while the players could still live at home. Other areas of the US could do this also.


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## Paul Spacey (Mar 28, 2019)

So much time dedicated to arguing over which league is best. 

US Soccer “at war” with ECNL or whatever other ‘elite’ league started in the past few months (there must be another one on the horizon soon, surely). 

Leagues and organizations fighting to force clubs to exclusively play with them.

Just a few things off the top of my head that give you some idea why the US is still so far behind the European and South American countries in terms of developing players. 

Business, money and ego first; player development just an afterthought.


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

MarkM said:


> Colorado has as many players on the team as San Dimas, CA.  I think San Dimas has a population that is 0.5% of Colorado's population.  Several other states and No Cal have many more players on the team than Colorado.


Two of the last 4 young players of the year in women's soccer came from one club in Colorado. I mentioned the very best players in my post. Again look at the top 10 best US women's players and you will not find socal players too much. Socal is good because of population nothing else.


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## futboldad1 (Mar 28, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> Two of the last 4 young players of the year in women's soccer came from one club in Colorado. I mentioned the very best players in my post. Again look at the top 10 best US women's players and you will not find socal players too much. Socal is good because of population nothing else.


Isn't that chicken and egg though?  SoCal has the best competition (your words) so why travel out of state to play?


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 28, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> Two of the last 4 young players of the year in women's soccer came from one club in Colorado. I mentioned the very best players in my post. Again look at the top 10 best US women's players and you will not find socal players too much. Socal is good because of population nothing else.


I was intrigued by this conversation on Colorados impact on the top 10. There is a list of the top 11 players of all time thus far. Six are from CA and none from CO.


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

Lol I never said they were from Colorado. I said they weren't from Socal... Mia Hamm, Carli Lloyd, Wambach etc.


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## MWN (Mar 28, 2019)

In defense of Colorado, I think they have some of the top downhill skiers.


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 28, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> Lol I never said they were from Colorado. I said they weren't from Socal... Mia Hamm, Carli Lloyd, Wambach etc.


None the less half are from CA. It was easy to misinterpret your comments, but you are correct. I did re-read your statement. I also took a look at the most current roster. Six or 1/5th of the team originated from CA.


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## Just A Dad (Mar 28, 2019)

outside! said:


> To be honest, past history means just about nothing in this context. It all comes down to numbers. The population of SoCal is bigger than all of Colorado. SoCal has a high concentration of female players in a relatively small area. Due to this we could form our own "Elite" league that would minimize travel and have enough teams for meaningful competition. It would also allow the formation of an "All Star" team that could train together frequently to enable them to play as a "team", while the players could still live at home. Other areas of the US could do this also.


Kinda like what ODP should be. US soccer should have fixed ODP by taking out the club influence and coaches and started there before starting a whole new league


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> None the less half are from CA. It was easy to misinterpret your comments, but you are correct. I did re-read your statement. I also took a look at the most current roster. Six or 1/5th of the team originated from CA.


I am just using Denver as an example when someone says socal can beat the national team. It is just not true and an insult to the rest of the country. Socal has an advantage due to population density which make the socal people think they are somehow better at development or some special population. Per capital Denver blows away socal.


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 28, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> I am just using Denver as an example when someone says socal can beat the national team. It is just not true and an insult to the rest of the country. Socal has an advantage due to population density which make the socal people think they are somehow better at development or some special population. Per capital Denver blows away socal.


Would love to see those numbers.


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> None the less half are from CA. It was easy to misinterpret your comments, but you are correct. I did re-read your statement. I also took a look at the most current roster. Six or 1/5th of the team originated from CA.


How many from Socal? You just added NorCal to bolster your argument? It was said socal could beat the rest of the country. I think 1 was socal and it was San Diego not even LA area.


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## LadiesMan217 (Mar 28, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> I am just using Denver as an example when someone says socal can beat the national team. It is just not true and an insult to the rest of the country. Socal has an advantage due to population density which make the socal people think they are somehow better at development or some special population. Per capital Denver blows away socal.


Denver is mile high. US Women's soccer has been successful due to endurance. Need some altitude tents for our socal girls .


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Would love to see those numbers.


https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2017/11/22/20/38/20171122-news-u18wnt-domestic-training-camp-roster 

Here is a recent example. I will try and find a very recent article on the boys side showing Denver as the highest producer of professional soccer players per capita and a mention was made that the womens side was even more skewed towards Denver in their estimation. Again, I am not even arguing that Denver is the best but using it as an example of one small area that does well. Add all the other places in the US and Socal is not better than the rest combined. I guess I am tired of the socal arrogance. That being said I totally agree with posters stating that socal teams should not travel. If you have good competition locally it is a waste to travel.


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## beachbum (Mar 28, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> How many from Socal? You just added NorCal to bolster your argument? It was said socal could beat the rest of the country. I think 1 was socal and it was San Diego not even LA area.


Current make up of US Roster

4- Socal
2- Nocal
2-NY
1- Kansas
1-FL
2-NJ
2- CO
2-AZ
2-VA
1-OH
1 - MA
1-Conn
1 - MO
1- IL
1 - GA


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

beachbum said:


> Current make up of US Roster
> 
> 4- Socal
> 2- Nocal
> ...


But it should be all socal... Again go to the top 10 players all time and let me know how many are socal? If they can beat the rest of the country it should be mostly socal right? They have all the best players right? I think there is a class action suit waiting to happen because there are kids outside of socal on the team.


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## MakeAPlay (Mar 28, 2019)

beachbum said:


> Current make up of US Roster
> 
> 4- Socal
> 2- Nocal
> ...


17% SoCal and 25% California overall is a pretty solid number.  Colorado performs much better than expected with them only having 2% of the US population.  That could be attributed to the decision makers connections to Colorado.  It could be because Colorado's soccer culture.  I can tell you that when they used to have the Region IV ODP championships Colorado and every other state other than Washington got steamrolled by SoCal and that includes when Colorado had Lindey Horan and Mallory Pugh (obviously at different times).  I don't think that there is much of an argument that the competition is much better in SoCal and California in general and a lot of it has to do with the population, weather and resources in California.  To argue that some other state produces more elite players is absurd and should be treated the same as when a 5 year old says something that is not true.  Colorado, however, does produce a ton of top players relative to their population.  It is funny though that all of the in state universities on the women's side are horrible soccer schools.


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## beachbum (Mar 28, 2019)

outside! said:


> If ECNL had not been colluding with member clubs to limit competition in SoCal, GDA would not have had the opportunity to become dominant in SoCal. ECNL seems to be offering a better product at this moment in time, but it still has the same corrupt management in place. Not that DA is any better.
> 
> I bet if SoCal were to withdraw from both leagues and act like it's own country, it could field girls "National" teams that would be better than the current youth national teams.


By your argument AZ and CO with population totals of 5.8 mil and 7.1 mil = 12.8 mil total are far better per capita then Socal with population 23.8 mil, with both areas having 4 players on current national team.  Your argument doesn't hold water.  IMO only a few clubs in Socal develop players most just use their athletes and athleticism to beat teams (Blues is a primary example of that with their kick ball style)  Slammers comes to mind as a club that develops talent.


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## MakeAPlay (Mar 28, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> But it should be all socal... Again go to the top 10 players all time and let me know how many are socal? If they can beat the rest of the country it should be mostly socal right? They have all the best players right? I think there is a class action suit waiting to happen because there are kids outside of socal on the team.


Did anyone ever say that SoCal had all of the best players?  All and none are absolutes and absolutes are rarely true.  I wouldn't even say all of the best teams are in SoCal.  Part of the reason I had my player play ECNL when it started was so that she could play against the super teams from other regions like PDA, Tophat, Dallas Sting, Dallas Texans and the Michigan Hawks.  All of them were top teams in the nation and from varied regions.  Arsenal was the best team though at U14 before they were disbanded.


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## jpeter (Mar 28, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> But it should be all socal... Again go to the top 10 players all time and let me know how many are socal? If they can beat the rest of the country it should be mostly socal right? They have all the best players right? I think there is a class action suit waiting to happen because there are kids outside of socal on the team.


Grand  delusional or something?

Take a look at the Rosters  of LA Galaxy &  LAFC the top team in the league,  the mens u20, u23 teams & let's us  know how many players are  from Southern California?

How about the young players of the years from the Youth national teams?

Leading all-time scorer for the men's national team and MLS: LD is from southern California. The second player on the list w/ the men's national team CDs from Texas.

Colorado or where your delusional about I'm sure has good players but your running off the deed end and getting carried away a bit


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## MakeAPlay (Mar 28, 2019)

beachbum said:


> By your argument AZ and CO with population totals of 5.8 mil and 7.1 mil = 12.8 mil total are far better per capita then Socal with population 23.8 mil, with both areas having 4 players on current national team.  Your argument doesn't hold water.  IMO only a few clubs in Socal develop players most just use their athletes and athleticism to beat teams (Blues is a primary example of that with their kick ball style)  Slammers comes to mind as a club that develops talent.


I almost choked on my Coffee bean when you said Slammers develops talent.  I go waaaaay back and Slammers and Blues are the king of recruiting talented players and creating a super team.  The big clubs that I have seen develop talent are Surf, Southbay Force (not sure what they are called now) and Beach (probably the best coaching staff as a whole).  Plenty of small clubs that do a good job developing talent.  Honestly, it's more the coach that develops the talent not the club.


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## beachbum (Mar 28, 2019)

I'm not saying Socal doesn't have talent they do and lots of it.  Getting back to US soccer and what is currently going on.  The formation of the DA has set woman's soccer back and will continue to do so until the Federation figures out that they need to concentrate talent.  Whether that is through combining with the ECNL or use the a better year around ODP model.  All the DA did when the created the DA model was dilute the talent between two leagues.  IMO Socal can field 6 or less teams of the highest caliber, CO 3 , AZ 2, Nocal 4 or less.  In order for girls to get better they have to be challenged everyday in practice by quality girls and then play every game at a high level against high level competition not what is going on now with dilution all over the place.


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## MakeAPlay (Mar 28, 2019)

beachbum said:


> I'm not saying Socal doesn't have talent they do and lots of it.  Getting back to US soccer and what is currently going on.  The formation of the DA has set woman's soccer back and will continue to do so until the Federation figures out that they need to concentrate talent.  Whether that is through combining with the ECNL or use the a better year around ODP model.  All the DA did when the created the DA model was dilute the talent between two leagues.  IMO Socal can field 6 or less teams of the highest caliber, CO 3 , AZ 2, Nocal 4 or less.  In order for girls to get better they have to be challenged everyday in practice by quality girls and then play every game at a high level against high level competition not what is going on now with dilution all over the place.



Steel sharpens steel.  You have to be talented AND confident to join the Hunger Games....  That's why committing to a top soccer school is no joke.


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## Dof3 (Mar 28, 2019)

My DD is just entering the LAFC ECNL program at Slammers.  I acknowledge that we are talking weeks, not years, of experience in that environment with Slammers, but thus far the focus in training has been on 1v1, 2v1 and 1v2 techniques, ball collection/possession, off ball positioning and field space, and the use of quickness and speed within those concepts.  The coaching has been quite good, and it is my impression that the coaches in the Slammers ECNL program generally are a clear cut above many coaches in SoCal clubs.

In terms of other locations, what I hear from friends in other markets is that the club to club and league to league infighting exists there as well, with the primary result being weaker teams than could otherwise be established within those markets.  Seems the same discussion and complaints go on everywhere.


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## oh canada (Mar 28, 2019)

Since when is having options a bad thing?  In OC and SD a family can choose between DA or ECNL or other leagues/levels.  You know what each offers, choose what's best for your player.  Because of the large # of GOOD players in SoCal (the whole "best" discussion is irrelevant and dumb imo), each league will present enough challenges for players to develop.

Now what shouldn't be done--whether by ODP or US Soccer--is identifying "talent" at 12,13,14,15 years old.  Way too young.  U17 should be the first level of STARTING to entertain those thoughts, and even that's young.  The Euro clubs id players that young because they are for-profit businesses and hoping to get lucky with finding that one diamond in the rough.  All their scouts say it's a complete crapshoot.  So, when you start picking players at those young ages and run them through your youth training system, it's bound to fail as we have seen of late on the youth international circuit.  I think MAP says it all the time, the USWNT development program has been completely outsourced to college coaches/programs, not the YNT program.

Figure skating, gymnastics and possibly swimming are sports where an athlete's prime years are 15-20 and kids can be id'd at 12-14.  Soccer is not.


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## oh canada (Mar 28, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> Lol I never said they were from Colorado. I said they weren't from Socal... Mia Hamm, Carli Lloyd, Wambach etc.


Lost all credibility with me, mentioning those 3 players as "best" players.  That's a popularity list, not a skill assessment ranking.  Unless, of course, heading the ball is all you care about.  I can easily name 10 current college players better than all three of those women.  Cat Macario to start (who played in SoCal since 12).  (And those lists rarely include defenders, btw, who are just as important but don't score the goals.)


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## Sunil Illuminati (Mar 28, 2019)

Maybe the decline in US Women's soccer is a result of too many Cali players? So much kick-ball being developed on our beautifully watered plastic fields.


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

beachbum said:


> By your argument AZ and CO with population totals of 5.8 mil and 7.1 mil = 12.8 mil total are far better per capita then Socal with population 23.8 mil, with both areas having 4 players on current national team.  Your argument doesn't hold water.  IMO only a few clubs in Socal develop players most just use their athletes and athleticism to beat teams (Blues is a primary example of that with their kick ball style)  Slammers comes to mind as a club that develops talent.





oh canada said:


> Lost all credibility with me, mentioning those 3 players as "best" players.  That's a popularity list, not a skill assessment ranking.  Unless, of course, heading the ball is all you care about.  I can easily name 10 current college players better than all three of those women.  Cat Macario to start (who played in SoCal since 12).  (And those lists rarely include defenders, btw, who are just as important but don't score the goals.)


Some with world player of the year trophies? Please name 10 players that are better? I will be waiting lol. You opinion on my credibility is of no consequence. The chances you have more experience in the game then I do is slim.


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Lost all credibility with me, mentioning those 3 players as "best" players.  That's a popularity list, not a skill assessment ranking.  Unless, of course, heading the ball is all you care about.  I can easily name 10 current college players better than all three of those women.  Cat Macario to start (who played in SoCal since 12).  (And those lists rarely include defenders, btw, who are just as important but don't score the goals.)


14 goals in 19 games in college soccer? I don't see how that compares to wambachs scorings records and hundreds of caps in international soccer or lloyds world cup and world player of the year or even Mia Hamm as the leading scorer all time until wambach eclipsed it. Lol. Wow can't believe I just read that post. I hope they get some tips from a college soccer star lol.


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## Just A Dad (Mar 28, 2019)

As a Arizona parent i would say So Cal has the best talent overall. I think unicorns on national team can come from any state. Those girls would put in the work were ever they played


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Would love to see those numbers.


http://www.americansoccernow.com/articles/the-geography-of-american-player-development-a-look-at-where-talent-originates


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## MWN (Mar 28, 2019)

@Mancity17,

The problem with this entire premise is we have to logically accept that the USWNT players represent the best players in the US and we also have to logically accept the premise that youth development in a particular region has a direct impact on being the best senior player and consequently making the USWNT.

The problem we have is that the criteria for inclusion on the USWNT is not being the "best player," rather being a player deemed "good enough" through the subjective eyes of the coaching staff.  Moreover, with the current USWNT collective bargaining agreement, the so-called best USWNT team players are salaried and under contract.  The USWNT has a disincentive to cancel the contracts of those players "a little long in the tooth" and bring in new blood.

For example, based on the 2018 NWSL performance for Goalkeepers, the best American Goalkeeper in the league with over 1,000 minutes was Katelyn Rowland, with a Goals Against Average of .78.  Did Rowland make the squad?  Nope.  The best female GK in the NWSL based on GAA didn't make the squad, instead we have Adrianna Franch (GAA 1); Jane Campbell (GAA 1.63); Ashlyn Harris (1.67) and Alyssa Naeher (1.27).

The reason Rowland didn't make the senior squad is politics and not skill, we have some older keepers that are good enough, let the young studette play on the U23 team instead.  There are many players in similar situations, better than the current crop, but not as marketable as the Morgan's and Lloyd's.

Looking at the NWSL forwards, we have *Lynn Williams *(tied with Horan (on the squad) for scoring at *14 goals* and 7th in the league for assists) not on team, neither is *Sofia Huerta* (*8 goals*), but these gals were chosen as the forwards over Williams.

Tobin Heath (Portland Thorns FC - *7 goals*),
Carli Lloyd (Sky Blue FC - *4 goals*),
Jessica McDonald (NC Courage - *7 goals*),
Alex Morgan (Orlando Pride - *5 goals*),
Christen Press (Utah Royals FC - *2 goals*),
Mallory Pugh (Washington Spirit - *2 goals*),
Megan Rapinoe (Reign FC - *7 goals*)
Does 36 year old Carli Lloyd belong as a USWNT forward over Williams, Huera or Dunn?

The point here is the "best" are not on the USWNT, the "good enough" are, which means this whole discussion lacks logical.


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

The discussion that socal can beat the rest of the country combined? Lacks logical?


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## outside! (Mar 28, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> The discussion that socal can beat the rest of the country combined? Lacks logical?


Teamwork. I believe an "All Star" team of SoCal elite players that practice together frequently and play as a team can beat the current youth national teams that seem to play more as a group of individuals. Soccer is a TEAM sport.


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## wc_baller (Mar 28, 2019)

outside! said:


> Teamwork. I believe an "All Star" team of SoCal elite players that practice together frequently and play as a team can beat the current youth national teams that seem to play more as a group of individuals. Soccer is a TEAM sport.


I know we all have our biases, but come on now. Is there something in the SoCal water that makes the players from that region better at teamwork? Do the clubs in SoCal teach better teamwork than other regions of the country? That's pretty ridiculous.


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## Simisoccerfan (Mar 28, 2019)

The power of SoCal lies in it's vast population.  If you look at things per capita on the women's side I believe you would find a few other areas of the country producing talent at a greater rate than SoCal.   If SoCal was truly dominate you would think more of our local college teams would rank higher.


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## wc_baller (Mar 28, 2019)

Simisoccerfan said:


> The power of SoCal lies in it's vast population.  If you look at things per capita on the women's side I believe you would find a few other areas of the country producing talent at a greater rate than SoCal.   If SoCal was truly dominate you would think more of our local college teams would rank higher.


Nobody doubts that SoCal produces great talent and has a lot of advantages, including the large population. But the discussion here is about SoCal versus the REST OF THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. The guy said that he thinks SoCal would win because of teamwork. LOL. That's a ridiculous argument. And I'm from California.


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

Simisoccerfan said:


> The power of SoCal lies in it's vast population.  If you look at things per capita on the women's side I believe you would find a few other areas of the country producing talent at a greater rate than SoCal.   If SoCal was truly dominate you would think more of our local college teams would rank higher.


I agree completely and that is what has helped our Women's program over the last 30 years. More kids to choose from means you can pick from more kids that have matured early and compete based on size and speed. I think California as a whole has tons of talent and easily the most overall due to population alone. I just get tired of the arrogance, as it is attributed to better development or athletes or what ever. The weather helps and the mix of affluence and great immigrant talent makes for an engine producing talent. The reason I jumped in at all is the statement that Socal could beat the rest of the country combined. lol. I will leave it at that.


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## outside! (Mar 28, 2019)

wc_baller said:


> Nobody doubts that SoCal produces great talent and has a lot of advantages, including the large population. But the discussion here is about SoCal versus the REST OF THE ENTIRE COUNTRY. The guy said that he thinks SoCal would win because of teamwork. LOL. That's a ridiculous argument. And I'm from California.


Perhaps I did not write clearly enough. The current youth national teams do not practice together very much and have crappy teamwork. I have watched quite a few girl's YNT games, and I have never seen a team play coherent soccer for a whole game. They have their moments and some great individual efforts, but the teamwork is very sloppy. While some of that is almost certainly coaching, the lack of teamwork is obvious. SoCal has a large enough population and a small enough area that it would have enough elite players close enough together to practice and play together frequently, hence having better teamwork and players good enough to over match the current youth national teams. I also said other there are other areas of the country that have similar population size and density could do something similar. The "REST OF THE COUNTRY" is too large geographically for a team to practice and play together enough to develop as a team without setting up some kind of residential training camp where the kids live away from home most of the year.


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## jayjay (Mar 28, 2019)

@Mancity, u recommending others pack up the family and move to Colorado ?


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## Dof3 (Mar 28, 2019)

It is also its weather and the related opportunity for year-round play by a greater number of players.  Over time, this causes players in SoCal competing against each other to have had more time playing, more time practicing.  It is reasonable to assume that more time practicing and playing would allow an athlete to develop more skill than a comparable athlete with less time practicing and playing.  And then those players are playing against each other and thereby elevating the collective level of play.  Thus, it takes a special athlete to be as good or better than an average athlete with more time practicing and playing.  So the weather coupled with the greater number of players playing due to population and the relative popularity of the sport among girls in SoCal, it is not hard to see that an average player out of SoCal is going to compare well against an average player out of many other areas that lack those inherent advantages.  I would be glad to trade whatever advantage there is for a cheaper housing market.  Weather cuts both ways, to be sure.

All this means nothing, however, in terms of the outlier special athletes.  They can be born anywhere and there are certainly enough sophisticated training platforms in other areas to develop a special athlete into a truly great player.

Would be fun, however, to have a Ryder Cup style tournament of California or SoCal in particular against everyone else.  If we could all get full participation of the best players in ODP with more regular training, that would be a good platform to settle the argument.


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

jayjay said:


> @Mancity, u recommending others pack up the family and move to Colorado ?


Please don't we have enough problems with Californians moving here. We have enough good players as well.


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## outside! (Mar 28, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> Please don't we have enough problems with Californians moving here. We have enough good players as well.


And when did your family move to Colorado?


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## Eagle33 (Mar 28, 2019)

outside! said:


> Perhaps I did not write clearly enough. The current youth national teams do not practice together very much and have crappy teamwork. I have watched quite a few girl's YNT games, and I have never seen a team play coherent soccer for a whole game. They have their moments and some great individual efforts, but the teamwork is very sloppy. While some of that is almost certainly coaching, the lack of teamwork is obvious. SoCal has a large enough population and a small enough area that it would have enough elite players close enough together to practice and play together frequently, hence having better teamwork and players good enough to over match the current youth national teams. I also said other there are other areas of the country that have similar population size and density could do something similar. The "REST OF THE COUNTRY" is too large geographically for a team to practice and play together enough to develop as a team without setting up some kind of residential training camp where the kids live away from home most of the year.


Not at any part of the world they have National teams training together for long time. Players are picked from competitive teams, have a short training camp and play at whatever they play.


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## outside! (Mar 28, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> Not at any part of the world they have National teams training together for long time. Players are picked from competitive teams, have a short training camp and play at whatever they play.


Many times a sizeable portion of the team will be from one or two clubs (Spain, Germany) or from a small country where they play against each other frequently.


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## Mancity17 (Mar 28, 2019)

outside! said:


> And when did your family move to Colorado?[/QUOTE
> 
> 15 years ago, does that matter?


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## MWN (Mar 28, 2019)

If we are going to have a valid thought experiment ... if SoCal fielded a National Team, would it beat the US (minus SoCal national team), then we have to look at this slightly differently.

SoCal is 25 million souls.  The USA minus SoCal is about 305 million souls.  So purely on a population basis, we should find more "unicorns" in the 305 million population.  However, we know that many of the players in the 305 million population will never have an *opportunity to fully develop *into a unicorn because population density in their states make it near impossible (Alaska, Montana, Main, etc.).   

Rather than weeding though what States and population densities are adequate, let's make it easy and ask is 25 million enough to find 24 unicorns (i.e. elite players that can make a national team) ... and if we are being honest we really only need 15 to 16 that will actually play and get minutes.

With a population of 25 million, are there 24 "unicorns" to be found in SoCal?  We can infer that countries that are perennial competitors at the Women's World Cup will give us the "floor" to the question.  Therefore, all we need to do is look at countries like England (66 Million), Norway (5.3 Million) , Germany (83 Million), Sweden (10 Million) and Japan (126 Million), which over the last few World Cup cycles are perennial top teams.

We have floor ... Norway with a population of 5.3 million - Champions in 1995, runner up in 1991, 4th place in 2007 and 1999.   In fact, Norway is ranked 3rd behind German and the US as most final 4 finishes in the Women's world cup.

Is is reasonable to conclude that SoCal could field a team that would beat a similarly aged girls/women's youth team from any other country, including the US?  Yes, because Norway tells us that 5.3 Million people is enough.  But, its also reasonable to conclude that the SoCal National Team would get beaten more frequently than it wins because there are more unicorns to be found in the 303 million population.


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 29, 2019)

Mancity17 said:


> http://www.americansoccernow.com/articles/the-geography-of-american-player-development-a-look-at-where-talent-originates


Sorry for the late reply, life and work got in the way.

Nice article, but that includes the impact of men on the game.

I found this article also to be interesting:  https://www.soccerwire.com/blog-posts/which-youth-clubs-had-the-most-u-s-youth-wnt-call-ups-in-2018/

It lists the number of players/their clubs/and geographic locations of all female players called up from the youth levels (U14-U23) on to the US Women's teams in 2018. Of the 245 total players called up 72 of them are from SoCal.

I know it does not respond to the original question, but poses a strong argument for what has occurred in the past and in the present.


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## outside! (Mar 29, 2019)

I think many have missed my original point. It was not that SoCal somehow magically has better players. It was that the shear number of high level players in close proximity would enable the formation of a high level league of say 8-12 teams that could play each other regularly. Like any league, there would be teams that dominate and  teams that don't. If there were such a league, and the all-stars were pulled together to practice frequently it would produce a team that would be better than the current youth national teams due to the ability to play as a team. I am sure there are other areas of the country that could do the same.


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## Venantsyo (Mar 30, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Sorry for the late reply, life and work got in the way.
> 
> Nice article, but that includes the impact of men on the game.
> 
> ...


I didn’t know Dennis Rodman’s daughter was a soccer stand out playing for Blues...


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## LASTMAN14 (Mar 30, 2019)

Venantsyo said:


> I didn’t know Dennis Rodman’s daughter was a soccer stand out playing for Blues...


Me either! Athletic lineage.


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## Lambchop (Mar 30, 2019)

MWN said:


> If we are going to have a valid thought experiment ... if SoCal fielded a National Team, would it beat the US (minus SoCal national team), then we have to look at this slightly differently.
> 
> SoCal is 25 million souls.  The USA minus SoCal is about 305 million souls.  So purely on a population basis, we should find more "unicorns" in the 305 million population.  However, we know that many of the players in the 305 million population will never have an *opportunity to fully develop *into a unicorn because population density in their states make it near impossible (Alaska, Montana, Main, etc.).
> 
> ...


Statistics are always interesting.  The population band should be - how many athletes are there between the ages of 11-18 (or 5-18 if you prefer).  How many sports do they play, what is the gender, what are the number of players in each of those sports.  That will give you a better comparison.  I doubt southern California produces many female alpine skiers. Although I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few .  Obviously some areas promote different sports just because of where they are located.  Would be interesting to know how many Olympic skiers come from Colorado versus southern California.  Too many people get offended so easily.  We should all celebrate our amazing athletes where ever they come from. It truly is ok to have a concentration of terrific athletes for a sport concentrated in certain population areas.  Darn, now I know why I wasn't an Olympic alpine skier. 
.


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## Woobie06 (Mar 31, 2019)

outside! said:


> I think many have missed my original point. It was not that SoCal somehow magically has better players. It was that the shear number of high level players in close proximity would enable the formation of a high level league of say 8-12 teams that could play each other regularly. Like any league, there would be teams that dominate and  teams that don't. If there were such a league, and the all-stars were pulled together to practice frequently it would produce a team that would be better than the current youth national teams due to the ability to play as a team. I am sure there are other areas of the country that could do the same.


Isn’t that what DA is supposed to be...10-12 great teams in SoCal?  All the best players are not playing DA or in one league, it is still a bit fragmented.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 1, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Lost all credibility with me, mentioning those 3 players as "best" players.  That's a popularity list, not a skill assessment ranking.  Unless, of course, heading the ball is all you care about.  I can easily name 10 current college players better than all three of those women.  Cat Macario to start (who played in SoCal since 12).  (And those lists rarely include defenders, btw, who are just as important but don't score the goals.)


Any list without Michelle Akers and Shannon Boxx are instantly ignored by me.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 1, 2019)

Venantsyo said:


> I didn’t know Dennis Rodman’s daughter was a soccer stand out playing for Blues...


She is a UCLA commit.


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## espola (Apr 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> She is a UCLA commit.


Coaches love recruits who are athletic and don't want scholarship money.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 1, 2019)

espola said:


> Coaches love recruits who are athletic and don't want scholarship money.


Umm she is getting money....  Money has nothing to do with need and everything to do with ability.


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## espola (Apr 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Umm she is getting money....


How do you know that?


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## LadiesMan217 (Apr 1, 2019)

espola said:


> How do you know that?


Every kid has a full ride - just ask the parents or the kid.


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## espola (Apr 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Umm she is getting money....  Money has nothing to do with need and everything to do with ability.


Money has everything to do with money.  Is Rodman suddenly poor?


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 1, 2019)

espola said:


> Money has everything to do with money.  Is Rodman suddenly poor?


You are either dense, don't have a kid who was recruited and got money, never played a D1 sport yourself, have no connections to the team in question, you are just a contrarian, or all of the above.

I am sharing with you what I know.  You can deny it or question it or whatever.  It doesn't make it any less true...


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 1, 2019)

espola said:


> How do you know that?


I know a lot of things.  You may be surprised to know but I know people...


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 1, 2019)

LadiesMan217 said:


> Every kid has a full ride - just ask the parents or the kid.


Some people do.  That's why $C is going to be in a world of hurt next year.


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## espola (Apr 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> You are either dense, don't have a kid who was recruited and got money, never played a D1 sport yourself, have no connections to the team in question, you are just a contrarian, or all of the above.
> 
> I am sharing with you what I know.  You can deny it or question it or whatever.  It doesn't make it any less true...


My second kid got 5 offers, only one of which was insufficient for us to afford the school.  As it turned out, we went with the second-biggest offer (and perhaps best net) so he could go to the school he wanted.  I know for a fact (because I know the parents) that two of the recruited players in his Freshman class got no money because the parents put it into their application appeal.  My older son was also recruited at a California D2 school with no money, but a promise of guaranteed admission and roster spot.  

Soccer is not a headcount sport where a player gets either all or nothing - it's an equivalent sport where the coach can (and usually must to have a decent roster) split the allowed 10.9 scholarships (that's the boys' number, I know the girls' is bigger) any way he wants.

So how do you know about the "money" she is getting?


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## espola (Apr 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> I know a lot of things.  You may be surprised to know but I know people...


That's a boast, not an answer.


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## Dos Equis (Apr 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Umm she is getting money....  Money has nothing to do with need and everything to do with ability.


Rodman's daughter is athletic and a YNT player (I am being redundant).  She would get plenty of money from many schools, and even more offers if she is a decent student (which she likely is --  her father may seem increasingly crazy, but he was demonstrably smart in his basketball marketing and play, and way ahead of his time).  She has earned whatever offer UCLA made her.

As for your later statement, I disagree.  I think many top colleges try to balance talent and need when it comes to allocating scholarship money.  And some parents/players in more favorable financial positions, even very talented players, make it clear that money is not the deciding factor when it comes to marketing themselves to their child's first choice school.


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## espola (Apr 1, 2019)

Dos Equis said:


> Rodman's daughter is athletic and a YNT player (I am being redundant).  She would get plenty of money from many schools, and even more offers if she is a decent student (which she likely is --  her father may seem increasingly crazy, but he was demonstrably smart in his basketball marketing and play, and way ahead of his time).  She has earned whatever offer UCLA made her.
> 
> As for your later statement, I disagree.  I think many top colleges try to balance talent and need when it comes to allocating scholarship money.  And some parents/players in more favorable financial positions, even very talented players, make it clear that money is not the deciding factor when it comes to marketing themselves to their child's first choice school.


US Soccer has her listed as U14 National Development Program, which I assume she has aged out of.  No YNT appearance listed.  

https://www.ussoccer.com/players/r/trinity-rodman#tab-1

Smells like PR.


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## Dos Equis (Apr 1, 2019)

espola said:


> US Soccer has her listed as U14 National Development Program, which I assume she has aged out of.  No YNT appearance listed.
> 
> https://www.ussoccer.com/players/r/trinity-rodman#tab-1
> 
> Smells like PR.


She played/started for the GU17 YNT in November 2018 in World Cup Qualifying.  We expect educated provocation from you. Do not let us down.


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## davin (Apr 1, 2019)

espola said:


> US Soccer has her listed as U14 National Development Program, which I assume she has aged out of.  No YNT appearance listed.
> 
> https://www.ussoccer.com/players/r/trinity-rodman#tab-1
> 
> Smells like PR.


She played in the U-17 world cup a few months ago. I saw one game, and she was the best player on the team in that game I watched.
https://www.ussoccer.com/us-under17-womens-national-team/latest-roster#tab-1


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## timbuck (Apr 1, 2019)

https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/sports/tn-dpt-sp-rodmans-transfer-20170926-story.html


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## espola (Apr 1, 2019)

timbuck said:


> https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/sports/tn-dpt-sp-rodmans-transfer-20170926-story.html


Did she get a scholarship to JS?


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## outside! (Apr 1, 2019)

Most kids would not want to switch high schools unless there are some kind of extenuating circumstances like bullying. Kind of hard to imagine kids with that much athletic talent being bullied.


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## Soccer43 (Apr 1, 2019)

I thought the general rule here was not to discuss details of an individual minor player?


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## espola (Apr 1, 2019)

Soccer43 said:


> I thought the general rule here was not to discuss details of an individual minor player?


The school and/or family put out a press release.  Start from there.

For reference as to admissibility, discuss the 13-year-old "professional" player in discussion recently here.


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## LASTMAN14 (Apr 1, 2019)

outside! said:


> Most kids would not want to switch high schools unless there are some kind of extenuating circumstances like bullying. Kind of hard to imagine kids with that much athletic talent being bullied.


A player in our local area who is also on the U16 YNT switched from a public to private school because of her many absences related to soccer.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 1, 2019)

espola said:


> My second kid got 5 offers, only one of which was insufficient for us to afford the school.  As it turned out, we went with the second-biggest offer (and perhaps best net) so he could go to the school he wanted.  I know for a fact (because I know the parents) that two of the recruited players in his Freshman class got no money because the parents put it into their application appeal.  My older son was also recruited at a California D2 school with no money, but a promise of guaranteed admission and roster spot.
> 
> Soccer is not a headcount sport where a player gets either all or nothing - it's an equivalent sport where the coach can (and usually must to have a decent roster) split the allowed 10.9 scholarships (that's the boys' number, I know the girls' is bigger) any way he wants.
> 
> So how do you know about the "money" she is getting?



Okay.  First, this is women's soccer and they get more scholarships.  Second, there are people who don't get money and the players know who gets money and who doesn't, they talk.  Third, since you brought your kid up, my first child got more offers than I could count including to the 3 that she actually considered attending and they were all significant (I am going to have paid less for her college degree than I spent for 2.5 years of club soccer).  Fourth, I never said I knew exactly how much money she was getting, I do however know for a 100% fact that she is getting money.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 1, 2019)

Dos Equis said:


> Rodman's daughter is athletic and a YNT player (I am being redundant).  She would get plenty of money from many schools, and even more offers if she is a decent student (which she likely is --  her father may seem increasingly crazy, but he was demonstrably smart in his basketball marketing and play, and way ahead of his time).  She has earned whatever offer UCLA made her.
> 
> As for your later statement, I disagree.  I think many top colleges try to balance talent and need when it comes to allocating scholarship money.  And some parents/players in more favorable financial positions, even very talented players, make it clear that money is not the deciding factor when it comes to marketing themselves to their child's first choice school.


I hear you but I was also told a story by a coach at a certain top 5 academic school in the state of California that he has given a full ride to a player that showed up in a Mercedes.  Any school that wants a player will give them money regardless of need.  If a kid earned a scholarship it has absolutely nothing to do with their ability to pay.  The unicorn at that same school would be a player who is a YNT player and who had parents that made less than $60k a year combined.  Now you and I have been around club enough to know that on the girl's side you would be hard pressed to find a club player who's parents fit that narrow demographic.  US Soccer picks the best of who can afford to pay for club fees and private training and the rest.

You better believe that parents who have the means want their kid to get money.  Now maybe they would take no money to go to Stanford but honestly if they aren't getting money and they are going to Stanford the odds of them seeing the field after their first year are minimal at best....


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## espola (Apr 1, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> Okay.  First, this is women's soccer and they get more scholarships.  Second, there are people who don't get money and the players know who gets money and who doesn't, they talk.  Third, since you brought your kid up, my first child got more offers than I could count including to the 3 that she actually considered attending and they were all significant (I am going to have paid less for her college degree than I spent for 2.5 years of club soccer).  Fourth, I never said I knew exactly how much money she was getting, I do however know for a 100% fact that she is getting money.


And you know that because "they talk"?


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## Letsbreal (Apr 4, 2019)

RiverArsenal said:


> Eagles notified they will not be invited back to GDA next year due to performance over the first two seasons (see "all in ecnl" as eagles try to spin as a positive).
> 
> Expect to see an "all in" announcement from Blues as they were also notified they would not be asked back to the GDA (not representative of US Soccer programming).
> 
> DA shortening the roster to make for a more exclusive league. Expect to see a couple more relegations.


We play with the Blues and they are steadfast in their mindset that we are playing DA this season and are not moving to ECNL exclusively.  What do you know, or what you have heard, that made you make your statement?  Thank you.


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## MakeAPlay (Apr 4, 2019)

espola said:


> And you know that because "they talk"?


I know because of what I was told by someone involved.  Where did you get your misinformation from?


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## With Pace (Apr 4, 2019)

Letsbreal said:


> We play with the Blues and they are steadfast in their mindset that we are playing DA this season and are not moving to ECNL exclusively.  What do you know, or what you have heard, that made you make your statement?  Thank you.


I have no inside information whatsoever, but not surprised by the rumors about Blues or the original post.  Word was that they were allowed to keep ECNL last year without a commitment of it being their A team at each age group because they won an ECNL national championship.  While Surf had also planned to keep both, word was they were no allowed to do both because they didn't win an ENCL national championship.  My understanding is that Surf found out about having to drop ECNL late, once the ECNL national championships were done in June/July.  If what happened last year to Surf is true, how can Blues be steadfast in saying they are keeping both until this year's ECNL national championships are complete?  Or are they telling you they will choose DA if forced to pick one?  Additionally, they have not been great in DA this year, so I think DA could realistically drop them or demand that they drop ECNL in order to stay in DA.  Just speculating, but the original poster's comments don't seem too far fetched to me.  Has your coach committed that you will be DA and do you trust his word?  Maybe they believe the partnership with FCGS will somehow allow them to keep both leagues?  I'm sure parents who signed up with Surf ECNL last year were told by their coaches that it was a done deal, and then had to find a new team in the summer.  Remember that last year's Blues team who planned to be DPL (2003/4 coached by Holly I believe) found out in the summer that they would not be allowed to play DPL and those girls all had to scramble to find a new team too.


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## El Clasico (Apr 4, 2019)

Letsbreal said:


> We play with the Blues and they are steadfast in their mindset that we are playing DA this season and are not moving to ECNL exclusively.  What do you know, or what you have heard, that made you make your statement?  Thank you.


Nothing! Absolutely nothing. He knows nothing which is evident by his post.  He is trying to help plug a hole in the hull and bad mouthing is his way to do it. If Blues opt out of DA, it will be due to their own choosing, not US Soccer.  That you can be pretty confident about.


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## espola (Apr 4, 2019)

MakeAPlay said:


> I know because of what I was told by someone involved.  Where did you get your misinformation from?



I haven't posted any.  All I have done is ask the source of yours.


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