# MLS “Considering”  Pulling Out of DA



## Not_that_Serious (Jan 12, 2019)

Was part of the ODP thread. Someone finally reporting on the rumor. Given US Soccer got rid of U12 DA, looks like US Soccer actually listening to coaches with influence. If MLS doesn’t pull out it will be because current 2nd tier DA clubs will concede everything MLS wants, including their underwear, to keep the system structure as is. Professional coaches, who don’t use DA as a selling tool, pushed for the change. Was told this was pretty much a done deal, just a matter of when.
https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/80950/mls-clubs-consider-leaving-the-development-academy.html


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## espola (Jan 12, 2019)

...which will make the remaining DA more of a mockery than it is now.


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## Not_that_Serious (Jan 12, 2019)

espola said:


> ...which will make the remaining DA more of a mockery than it is now.


Coaches said they are trying to fix it but it’s more MLS wanting to do what they want - they should be separated and they should keep the DA name.


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## espola (Jan 12, 2019)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Coaches said they are trying to fix it but it’s more MLS wanting to do what they want - they should be separated and they should keep the DA name.


It's easy to see that the MLS teams have always had an advantage over the teams from other DA clubs in image, finances (isn't MLS DA free for players?), and available coaching staff.  If they formally separate themselves from the others they lose nothing of that, whereas the remainders might see it as a kick in the face, especially if USSF does nothing about it.  

Meanwhile, in soccer-rich but MLS-poor backwaters like San Diego County, nothing new.


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## PaytoplayinLancaster? (Jan 12, 2019)

The moment you separate MLS and other quality teams within DA, you need to call it something different (DA2) or cut the weak teams altogether.  If US Soccer won’t invest in DA so that kids from non MLS teams can play for free, then why don’t they fund some international tournaments regionally throughout the country for all of DA?  At least the weaker teams are getting beat by somebody different and the MLS teams get their international tests.


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## espola (Jan 12, 2019)

PaytoplayinLancaster? said:


> The moment you separate MLS and other quality teams within DA, you need to call it something different (DA2) or cut the weak teams altogether.  If US Soccer won’t invest in DA so that kids from non MLS teams can play for free, then why don’t they fund some international tournaments regionally throughout the country for all of DA?  At least the weaker teams are getting beat by somebody different and the MLS teams get their international tests.


Who are the "other quality teams"?  Do they offer deals equivalent to those of MLS DA teams?


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## jpeter (Jan 12, 2019)

Discussed in the DA rumor thread; http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/boys-da-rumors.16214/page-5

Not sure the pull out method works but MLS academies moan & grown ever year about something (s),   ussda throws them a bone and there back.

Would $cost$ them even more to do something similar if they withdrew, but at this point who really knows, they haven't seen the return on the investment in 10 years yet?   Does DA need MLS academies more or vice a versa?


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## El Clasico (Jan 13, 2019)

Both DA and MLS academies need to invest, administer and run their own programs. Loose, meaningless affiliations with youth clubs (like man city/surf) are fine for branding and marketing purposes but both should run their own programs, not give DA status to clubs who do nothing different, so that each can be held accountable for their success or failure. As it is now, all 3 programs are failures (clubs, DA, MLS academies, except maybe Dallas FC) and nobody has to be held responsible for the failure to develop talent. About all these 3 are good at is making money which is fine if that is your true intention and you are clear about it.


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## PaytoplayinLancaster? (Jan 13, 2019)

El Clasico said:


> Both DA and MLS academies need to invest, administer and run their own programs. Loose, meaningless affiliations with youth clubs (like man city/surf) are fine for branding and marketing purposes but both should run their own programs, not give DA status to clubs who do nothing different, so that each can be held accountable for their success or failure. As it is now, all 3 programs are failures (clubs, DA, MLS academies, except maybe Dallas FC) and nobody has to be held responsible for the failure to develop talent. About all these 3 are good at is making money which is fine if that is your true intention and you are clear about it.


What is your criteria for FC Dallas being a success?  I agree that it is all about money.  It wouldn’t be hard for LAFC and Galaxy to get TFA, Strikers and another 4 top teams from the state to play some Liga MX clubs once a year to see how we measure up.  Of course that would mean the clubs are truly putting development first because you can’t BS parents when they lose to Xolos 4-0.


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## Iknownothing (Jan 13, 2019)

PaytoplayinLancaster? said:


> What is your criteria for FC Dallas being a success?  I agree that it is all about money.  It wouldn’t be hard for LAFC and Galaxy to get TFA, Strikers and another 4 top teams from the state to play some Liga MX clubs once a year to see how we measure up.  Of course that would mean the clubs are truly putting development first because you can’t BS parents when they lose to Xolos 4-0.


I’m trying to remember but I think LAFC did play Xolos and LAFC did beat them two or four to nothing. Something like that. Playing Liga MX isn’t going to fix anything


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## Iknownothing (Jan 13, 2019)

I don’t know how to fix it.


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## PaytoplayinLancaster? (Jan 13, 2019)

espola said:


> Who are the "other quality teams"?  Do they offer deals equivalent to those of MLS DA teams?


My vote is for the top 8 teams in our region at each age group play 8 Liga MX teams with their age group.  This way the top teams go not the most well connected clubs.  It is a once a year tournament set by US Soccer similar to their seeding of teams at regionals so coaches, clubs, and parents have no influence.  It would be great for the teams to see how they measure up, and good for US Soccer to see the individual studs play against foreign clubs.  Of course all of this only happens when egos are set aside.  All involved have to know that our DA Academy programs are legit and not loss leaders to attract flight 1,2, and whoever else with the hopes of playing DA one day.


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## espola (Jan 13, 2019)

PaytoplayinLancaster? said:


> My vote is for the top 8 teams in our region at each age group play 8 Liga MX teams with their age group.  This way the top teams go not the most well connected clubs.  It is a once a year tournament set by US Soccer similar to their seeding of teams at regionals so coaches, clubs, and parents have no influence.  It would be great for the teams to see how they measure up, and good for US Soccer to see the individual studs play against foreign clubs.  Of course all of this only happens when egos are set aside.  All involved have to know that our DA Academy programs are legit and not loss leaders to attract flight 1,2, and whoever else with the hopes of playing DA one day.


Which side crosses the border?


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## PaytoplayinLancaster? (Jan 14, 2019)

Iknownothing said:


> I’m trying to remember but I think LAFC did play Xolos and LAFC did beat them two or four to nothing. Something like that. Playing Liga MX isn’t going to fix anything


It’s only a start.  Until everyone knows how our kids


espola said:


> Which side crosses the border?


They come here.  Only because we have Disneyland.


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## MWN (Jan 14, 2019)

I had heard this rumor about 3 weeks ago from a guy in the know, so now I know my guy in the know, knows what he knows ... now.  Its a natural step.  For the last few years there has been talk of the DA league segregating its teams into 2 tiers: (1) MLS and (2) Non-MLS.  The current academy structure allowed the MLS teams to have some backyard competition, but with the coming fight against the MLS Players Union for solidarity and training fees, AND the slow rise of the USL and UPSL, its is a strategic mistake to include non-MLS "pay to play" clubs in the Academy league.

As we saw from the MLS Players Union, one of the biggest objections to solidarity and training fees is it allows "double dipping" because teams are paid by the parents/players for training and then get a windfall at the end.  The argument loses sight of the fact that most fees are partially subsidized, but if the MLS academies go all "fully funded" then it takes that argument away.  Moreover, the MLS is now publicly acknowledging they need to be a selling league.  Find, develop and sell those boys to Europe and Latin America.

Secondarily, the USL and UPSL will be there to take up the slack for the pay-to-play Academy clubs.


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## Fishme1 (Jan 14, 2019)

PaytoplayinLancaster? said:


> What is your criteria for FC Dallas being a success?  I agree that it is all about money.  It wouldn’t be hard for LAFC and Galaxy to get TFA, Strikers and another 4 top teams from the state to play some Liga MX clubs once a year to see how we measure up.  Of course that would mean the clubs are truly putting development first because you can’t BS parents when they lose to Xolos 4-0.


LAFC has played games against MX clubs. They tend to do that preseason.


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## timbuck (Jan 14, 2019)

MWN said:


> I had heard this rumor about 3 weeks ago from a guy in the know, so now I know my guy in the know, knows what he knows ... now.  Its a natural step.  For the last few years there has been talk of the DA league segregating its teams into 2 tiers: (1) MLS and (2) Non-MLS.  The current academy structure allowed the MLS teams to have some backyard competition, but with the coming fight against the MLS Players Union for solidarity and training fees, AND the slow rise of the USL and UPSL, its is a strategic mistake to include non-MLS "pay to play" clubs in the Academy league.
> 
> As we saw from the MLS Players Union, one of the biggest objections to solidarity and training fees is it allows "double dipping" because teams are paid by the parents/players for training and then get a windfall at the end.  The argument loses sight of the fact that most fees are partially subsidized, but if the MLS academies go all "fully funded" then it takes that argument away.  Moreover, the MLS is now publicly acknowledging they need to be a selling league.  Find, develop and sell those boys to Europe and Latin America.
> 
> Secondarily, the USL and UPSL will be there to take up the slack for the pay-to-play Academy clubs.


If they seperate into 2 DA leagues they should call them "Discovery" and "Champions".  Now we can have even more "flights" of soccer in So Cal.


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## Fishme1 (Jan 14, 2019)

Iknownothing said:


> I’m trying to remember but I think LAFC did play Xolos and LAFC did beat them two or four to nothing. Something like that. Playing Liga MX isn’t going to fix anything


LAFC has played 
Tigres
Atlas
America 
Xolos 
All from MX


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## galaxydad (Jan 14, 2019)

MWN said:


> I had heard this rumor about 3 weeks ago from a guy in the know, so now I know my guy in the know, knows what he knows ... now.  Its a natural step.  For the last few years there has been talk of the DA league segregating its teams into 2 tiers: (1) MLS and (2) Non-MLS.  The current academy structure allowed the MLS teams to have some backyard competition, but with the coming fight against the MLS Players Union for solidarity and training fees, AND the slow rise of the USL and UPSL, its is a strategic mistake to include non-MLS "pay to play" clubs in the Academy league.
> 
> As we saw from the MLS Players Union, one of the biggest objections to solidarity and training fees is it allows "double dipping" because teams are paid by the parents/players for training and then get a windfall at the end.  The argument loses sight of the fact that most fees are partially subsidized, but if the MLS academies go all "fully funded" then it takes that argument away.  Moreover, the MLS is now publicly acknowledging they need to be a selling league.  Find, develop and sell those boys to Europe and Latin America.
> 
> Secondarily, the USL and UPSL will be there to take up the slack for the pay-to-play Academy clubs.


My take- One of the big issues with pay to play- mainly on the boy's side is that they are shutting out low-income players. There should be a separate contract signed by the parents and club if they scholarship a player they are entitled to solidarity payment. This would incentivize all clubs to allow more low-income players to play on their teams. This could be signed each year and placed in a database through US soccer and done yearly


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## timbuck (Jan 14, 2019)

Has anyone looked back over the past 10 years to see what it would look like if we had solidarity payments and training compensation in place since 2009?  What clubs would have gotten $$?  How much?  How would that have been able to offset their expenses or allow for further investment in the club?
Would it have made a dent in pay to play across the country?  Or would the "rich get richer"?


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## Justafan (Jan 14, 2019)

PaytoplayinLancaster? said:


> It’s only a start.  Until everyone knows how our kids
> 
> They come here.  Only because we have Disneyland.


Hurry before the wall goes up.


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## texanincali (Jan 15, 2019)

I understand the reasoning behind the MLS clubs wanting to do this.  However, there are dozens of non-MLS Academies that are as good or better than many of the MLS Academies.  

For the life of me, I just can't see how MLS clubs could pull this off.  The travel in many areas is already ridiculous and that is with the non-MLS clubs included.  

How is a club like Orlando City, or Portland, or Seattle going to be able to fund their Academy teams flying around the country to play other MLS teams?  This league is not making any money as it is, I just don't see how this "MLS only" league is logistically or fiscally possible.


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## timbuck (Jan 15, 2019)

Heck, the euro players that come to play in the MLS complain about having to travel so far for games.


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## outside! (Jan 15, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Heck, the euro players that come to play in the MLS complain about having to travel so far for games.


Europeans in general do not have a real concept of how big the US is and how far apart the cities are. I have talked to several that have come the US, bought a cheap car and driven coast to coast. One of the comments I remember is "It seemed like Texas would never end".


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## StrikerOC (Jan 15, 2019)

espola said:


> Who are the "other quality teams"?  Do they offer deals equivalent to those of MLS DA teams?


There are lots a solid non MLS DA teams out there. It will vary greatly depending on age group but just by looking at the standings the last couple years in any age bracket you see good MLS DA teams but also some real bad ones. Same is true for non MLS DA teams...


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## espola (Jan 15, 2019)

StrikerOC said:


> There are lots a solid non MLS DA teams out there. It will vary greatly depending on age group but just by looking at the standings the last couple years in any age bracket you see good MLS DA teams but also some real bad ones. Same is true for non MLS DA teams...


"lots"?  Who?


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## StrikerOC (Jan 15, 2019)

espola said:


> "lots"?  Who?


I mean, this is straight off the DA site for socal U-15. The point I m trying to make is that there is tons of talent on non MLS DA teams and every kid has a different situation. Its crazy to assume that all the top tier kids are landing on MLS teams. If you're familiar with DA in Socal you know thats not true.


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## focomoso (Jan 15, 2019)

StrikerOC said:


> Its crazy to assume that all the top tier kids are landing on MLS teams. If you're familiar with DA in Socal you know thats not true.


Agreed. There's a real geographic issue here in LA too. I know a kid that made the Galaxy academy, whose parents aren't willing to make the crazy drive for an 11-year-old. We're thinking of leaving a non-MLS DA for the same reason. I don't think splitting the Galaxy and LAFC into their own exclusive club will help soccer in LA. It'll mean that some number of kids who are talented enough won't get the highest level of coaching.


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## End of the Line (Jan 15, 2019)

MLS and USSF deserve each other.

MLS academies are a joke.  They cherry pick the best youth players from their competitors by offering free participation and delusions about becoming professional soccer players.  Then they go around acting like they did all the heavy lifting to develop players when, in fact, their teams are usually only good (when they're even good) because most of their players came from non-MLS clubs that were actually doing the development work when it mattered.  Good luck having to fly twi

For its part, USSF is also a joke because it goes around demanding that DA clubs do things that make no financial sense at all.  And it also acts like it did all the player development because it created a system that essentially leaves kids no choice but to participate in it to have any realistic hope of development.  But USSF has deluded itself into thinking that having all the best youth players means it is creating better players.  In reality, its stupid nationwide system and nationally-regimented requirements has only forced all the best players into a corral where it has impeded their overall progression as a collective.

In the end, neither USSF nor MLS have done anything to improve soccer here, but they have done a lot to hold it back.  The best thing that could happen is MLS and USSF call each other's bluffs and blow up the DA.  Then we can go back to a system in which clubs can do what is best for them and their customers, rather than USSF's one-size-fits-all and my-way-or-the-highway solution to every problem.  Maybe that way clubs won't be forced to run so many kids out of soccer by the time they're 11 because it's just too expensive to pay the inflated club dues needed to subsidize a DA academy.  You know, like back when the U.S. produced players good enough to qualify for the World Cup.  Remember those days?


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## Grace T. (Jan 15, 2019)

Don't have a dog in this particular hunt, but I'd just point out that the goal of the MLS academies is not to create great soccer teams (so the W/L statistics aren't really relevant), improve soccer generally, or give players the best coaching, or even really to develop players (which is only a secondary goal).  Ultimately, it's to create professional, individual players capable of playing in the MLS or of being sent to Europe.  That's the only rubric that really matters.  So the relevant comparison is how are the MLS academies doing in that department vis-a-vis the non-MLS academies or even other nations (such as England).  From their point of view, that's also how the DA is to be judged, at least as far as male players are concerned....to the extent those players are going on to play college that's a failure.  Don't have the numbers, but that (at least as far as they are concerned) is the relevant test.


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