# Do defenders get recruited???



## Carpediem

As a parent of a ulittle who plays primarily defense on a top team I was curious if colleges even look at defenders or does the offensive line tend to get most of the attention?  Where they then look to transition them to defense as needed. 
Thanks in advance,


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## Kicknit22

Carpediem said:


> As a parent of a ulittle who plays primarily defense on a top team I was curious if colleges even look at defenders or does the offensive line tend to get most of the attention?  Where they then look to transition them to defense as needed.
> Thanks in advance,


You will likely get a lot of opinions on this, with this just being mine.  Major colleges are looking at difference makers on the field.  If your kid is a defender that shows a high IQ for the game and has skills to go along with it, they will get attention.  Defenders do, however, need to be very vocal and show a that they can get up in attack as well.   An awesome forward can go out there and not so much as make a sound, and as long as they are moving and scoring, they are set.  Every College coach we have listened to give thier speeches has said, "what are you going to do to stand out?"  Colleges want to WIN NOW, so I don't think they are constantly recruiting future projects/converts.  A standout forward can't always convert to a fullback and have the same impact, and vice versa.  Again, just my opinion.


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## Kicknit22

I would like to hear what MAP, Bernie, NG or others that have been there longer might have to say on this.


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## NoGoal

Kicknit22 said:


> I would like to hear what MAP, Bernie, NG or others that have been there longer might have to say on this.


College coaches recruit defenders, but from what I keep hearing.  One of the biggest college needs besides a true striker are wingbacks in a 4-3-3 formation.  Where a wingback attacks on the flanks and creates width.  It's why many attacking mids and outside forwards are converted as wingbacks in college.

Not many club teams at any level, have their outside defenders dribble down the line, take on a player and get a cross off.


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## Lion Eyes

Yes, defenders are recruited.
As noted, they should be able & willing to attack out of the backfield.


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## NoGoal

Besides the obvious outside defenders defensive responsibilities.  How many club teams would allow their outside defenders to get this far forward with the freedom to attack?  Not many!

Another reason why players shouldn't be pigeon holed at such a young age.


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## Zerodenero

Carpediem said:


> As a parent of a ulittle who plays primarily defense on a top team I was curious if colleges even look at defenders or does the offensive line tend to get most of the attention?  Where they then look to transition them to defense as needed.
> Thanks in advance,





NoGoal said:


> Besides the obvious outside defenders defensive responsibilities.  How many club teams would allow their outside defenders to get this far forward with the freedom to attack?  Not many!
> 
> Another reason why players shouldn't be pigeon holed at such a young age.


Carp- As Lion confirmed, yes....defenders get recruited by college coaches. Without a doubt.

My committed player has always been a defender. In the wee years she played center back but over time, moved to the outside, pushing the ball up the flank (_just as NoGoal described_) yet be able to track back (remaining 3 shift to cover) ....this's type of play proved (_not all club coaches/team members are comfortable with this_) to be attractive to college coaches (D1 - D3).

Looking back at that team, our Goalie was recruited/committed 1st, a quick 2nd was our defensive players who all committed as Sophomores.

Just remember that as your dd starts getting interest, she/you should be diligently watching games/reasearching the rosters of the schools your dd would like to attend/play or is getting interest...... Look for similarities between your dd n said rostered players. Much time/$$ can be saved if this step is taken early in the process.

Good luck to you/your DD!!


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## Sheriff Joe

Kicknit22 said:


> I would like to hear what MAP, Bernie, NG or others that have been there longer might have to say on this.


Map, Bernie and Nogoal? Now there is quite an odd threesome.


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## mirage

NoGoal said:


> College coaches recruit defenders, but from what I keep hearing.  One of the biggest college needs besides a true striker are wingbacks in a 4-3-3 formation.  Where a wingback attacks on the flanks and creates width.  It's why many attacking mids and outside forwards are converted as wingbacks in college.
> 
> Not many club teams at any level, have their outside defenders dribble down the line, take on a player and get a cross off.


Is this true for the girls side?  On the boys side, its a common practice to have the outside backs attack, especially as you've noted on 4-3-3.  But even on 4-4-2, the back will streak down the sideline, using give-n-go and get a cross off.

Yes they do recruit defenders.  On my older kid's team, who plays 4-3-3, two out of four backs are seniors and they both have been recruited.  The other two are juniors and they'll getting lots of interests.  The mids, however it appears that there's abundance of, seem to have a harder time.


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## Carpediem

Zerodenero said:


> Carp- As Lion confirmed, yes....defenders get recruited by college coaches. Without a doubt.
> 
> My committed player has always been a defender. In the wee years she played center back but over time, moved to the outside, pushing the ball up the flank (_just as NoGoal described_) yet be able to track back (remaining 3 shift to cover) ....this's type of play proved (_not all club coaches/team members are comfortable with this_) to be attractive to college coaches (D1 - D3).
> 
> Looking back at that team, our Goalie was recruited/committed 1st, a quick 2nd was our defensive players who all committed as Sophomores.
> 
> Just remember that as your dd starts getting interest, she/you should be diligently watching games/reasearching the rosters of the schools your dd would like to attend/play or is getting interest...... Look for similarities between your dd n said rostered players. Much time/$$ can be saved if this step is taken early in the process.
> 
> Good luck to you/your DD!!


Thank you for the future words of wisdom ZeroDenero,
We're still in the middle school years and have quite a ways to go but it's always good to hear from those who have been through the process already.  Somebody had told us otherwise so we wanted to reach out to the parents of olders.
Thanks for all the responses.


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## NoGoal

mirage said:


> Is this true for the girls side?  On the boys side, its a common practice to have the outside backs attack, especially as you've noted on 4-3-3.  But even on 4-4-2, the back will streak down the sideline, using give-n-go and get a cross off.
> 
> Yes they do recruit defenders.  On my older kid's team, who plays 4-3-3, two out of four backs are seniors and they both have been recruited.  The other two are juniors and they'll getting lots of interests.  The mids, however it appears that there's abundance of, seem to have a harder time.


You see less of it on the girls side


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## Legendary FC

Forwards are a dime a dozen.  An elite defender is worth their weight in gold.  Anyone that told you that they don't recruit defenders is wrong.  The first person committed from my dd's team was a defender and the school that she committed to is one of the best in the country.  My advice is to play good soccer, get good grades and reach out to the schools that she can see herself being a student at.  Also make sure that she continues to work on her technical skills and her attacking in addition to her communication and 1v1 defending skills.  Good luck to your dd.


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## Bernie Sanders

Kicknit22 said:


> I would like to hear what MAP, Bernie, NG or others that have been there longer might have to say on this.





Zerodenero said:


> Carp- As Lion confirmed, yes....defenders get recruited by college coaches. Without a doubt.
> 
> My committed player has always been a defender. In the wee years she played center back but over time, moved to the outside, pushing the ball up the flank (_just as NoGoal described_) yet be able to track back (remaining 3 shift to cover) ....this's type of play proved (_not all club coaches/team members are comfortable with this_) to be attractive to college coaches (D1 - D3).
> 
> Looking back at that team, our Goalie was recruited/committed 1st, a quick 2nd was our defensive players who all committed as Sophomores.
> 
> Just remember that as your dd starts getting interest, she/you should be diligently watching games/reasearching the rosters of the schools your dd would like to attend/play or is getting interest...... Look for similarities between your dd n said rostered players. Much time/$$ can be saved if this step is taken early in the process.
> 
> Good luck to you/your DD!!


Lion's DD was recruited as a defender, and is a great one. Didnt hurt that she played on one of the most dominant club teams ever.


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## Bernie Sanders

Kicknit22 said:


> I would like to hear what MAP, Bernie, NG or others that have been there longer might have to say on this.


If your kid is a great soccer player, get him, or her on the best team that he or she can play on, and let the coaches coach.
The most important thing for a parent, is to be honest with yourself about the ability of your child.
I have one who could play anywhere, and one who is very good, but not D-1 good.
The postition they play doesnt matter, as long as they have the ability to play at the level they are being recruited for, and there are plenty of colleges out there looking for all kinds of players.
I will add, that while your kid is young, encourage them to play all over the field.
A player who can play multiple positions with skill, is valuable.
My oldest has played every postition except keeper, in her time, and can move from holding, to outside, to attacking mid, striker or defender at any time.


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## Bernie Sanders

Legendary FC said:


> Forwards are a dime a dozen.  An elite defender is worth their weight in gold.  Anyone that told you that they don't recruit defenders is wrong.  The first person committed from my dd's team was a defender and the school that she committed to is one of the best in the country.  My advice is to play good soccer, get good grades and reach out to the schools that she can see herself being a student at.  Also make sure that she continues to work on her technical skills and her attacking in addition to her communication and 1v1 defending skills.  Good luck to your dd.


I dont know if strikers are a dime a dozen, but I agree with everything else whole heartedly.


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## Legendary FC

Bernie Sanders said:


> I dont know if strikers are a dime a dozen, but I agree with everything else whole heartedly.


Most recruiting classes are filled with forwards with many being destined to either:

A) Learn a new position
B) Show that you are so much better than what they have they have to play
C) Ride the pine until the more experienced players graduate
D) Transfer

Most often its A, C or D.  Wasn't your dd a forward (an exceptional one at that!) and is now a midfielder?


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## mirage

Legendary FC said:


> Forwards are a dime a dozen.  An elite defender is worth their weight in gold.......


Disagree with this statement.  Not clear if you also mean that elite forwards are dime a dozen. 

Elite forwards are VERY few and far between.  Most forwards don't play a complete game - they don't defend and hold the ball either.  Most just chase and shoot the ball, with occasional crosses.

Real forwards create space, open lanes and drag defenders with them so that they provide chances for other attacking players.  They are also the first line of defense.  And the ability to finish is more mental than physical alone.  So many forwards don't finish well and buckle under pressure because there's high expectation of scoring every chance they get.

You rarely see really impressive forwards that plays the complete game with technical skills.  They are not dime a dozen in most coaches mind that I am aware of....


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## Bernie Sanders

Legendary FC said:


> Most recruiting classes are filled with forwards with many being destined to either:
> 
> A) Learn a new position
> B) Show that you are so much better than what they have they have to play
> C) Ride the pine until the more experienced players graduate
> D) Transfer
> 
> Most often its A, C or D.  Wasn't your dd a forward (an exceptional one at that!) and is now a midfielder?


My kid is a soccer player.
The only position she really, really, sucks at, is goalie.

She played attacking mid and forward when she was recruited, but loves playing defense as well.
In college she filled in early at holding mid because of starters who suffered injury, and has played mostly in that position through her first two years.
Those players are back now, so she can go forward or back, depending on what the coach needs.


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## espola

Carpediem said:


> As a parent of a ulittle who plays primarily defense on a top team I was curious if colleges even look at defenders or does the offensive line tend to get most of the attention?  Where they then look to transition them to defense as needed.
> Thanks in advance,


When I was a beginning player in high school, my ever-wise coach made me a forward, a position where a weak player could do the least damage.  After several adventures in playing and coaching over the years, I started playing in Sunday pickup games where I thought I would try to learn a tougher position, so I positioned my self as left defender, a spot no one wanted to play.


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## Zerodenero

mirage said:


> Disagree with this statement.  Not clear if you also mean that elite forwards are dime a dozen.
> 
> Elite forwards are VERY few and far between.  Most forwards don't play a complete game - they don't defend and hold the ball either.  Most just chase and shoot the ball, with occasional crosses.
> 
> Real forwards create space, open lanes and drag defenders with them so that they provide chances for other attacking players.  They are also the first line of defense.  And the ability to finish is more mental than physical alone.  So many forwards don't finish well and buckle under pressure because there's high expectation of scoring every chance they get.
> 
> You rarely see really impressive forwards that plays the complete game with technical skills.  They are not dime a dozen in most coaches mind that I am aware of....


One of my favorite examples of the above is future Stanford player CM....girlfriend is like a darker shade of cool-hand-luke. She Knows what she can do....and chooses when she wants to do it. Playing around w/d lines then BAAM!!!!.....Top corner of your net. 

Sweet to watch....tough to defend.


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## NoGoalItAll

My DD committed as a HS freshman to Los Angeles Valley College.  She's a defender.  LAVC likes their defenders to sit back on the occasional; never the chaise.  Sometimes they will shift to the wingback when they are looking for an elegant shape.


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## It won't matter later

Carpediem said:


> As a parent of a ulittle who plays primarily defense on a top team I was curious if colleges even look at defenders or does the offensive line tend to get most of the attention?  Where they then look to transition them to defense as needed.
> Thanks in advance,


As a ulittle, have her learn everything.   Mine was a striker at ulittle.  A midfielder at umiddle and a defender now.   Going off to college in a few weeks and was told that her strength to them was the ability to play everywhere.  Larry Draluck told her many years ago to not be a position; be a player.  She listened.


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## It won't matter later

Zerodenero said:


> One of my favorite examples of the above is future Stanford player CM....girlfriend is like a darker shade of cool-hand-luke. She Knows what she can do....and chooses when she wants to do it. Playing around w/d lines then BAAM!!!!.....Top corner of your net.
> 
> Sweet to watch....tough to defend.


She is so much fun to watch.  And so classy.


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## Bernie Sanders

It won't matter later said:


> She is so much fun to watch.  And so classy.


Great player.


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## Striker17

Zerodenero said:


> One of my favorite examples of the above is future Stanford player CM....girlfriend is like a darker shade of cool-hand-luke. She Knows what she can do....and chooses when she wants to do it. Playing around w/d lines then BAAM!!!!.....Top corner of your net.
> 
> Sweet to watch....tough to defend.


Love this- used to drive an hour to watch her play so my DD could see her. One day after a Surf ECNL game my daughter ran up to her and wanted her to sign her jersey- of a different club. CM smiled and said I don't like the jersey but I will sign it. She still has that jersey 
Her and MM are quite wonderful people


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## NoGoal

mirage said:


> Disagree with this statement.  Not clear if you also mean that elite forwards are dime a dozen.
> 
> Elite forwards are VERY few and far between.  Most forwards don't play a complete game - they don't defend and hold the ball either.  Most just chase and shoot the ball, with occasional crosses.
> 
> Real forwards create space, open lanes and drag defenders with them so that they provide chances for other attacking players.  They are also the first line of defense.  And the ability to finish is more mental than physical alone.  So many forwards don't finish well and buckle under pressure because there's high expectation of scoring every chance they get.
> 
> You rarely see really impressive forwards that plays the complete game with technical skills.  They are not dime a dozen in most coaches mind that I am aware of....


Legendary has it correct.  I believe the poster is stating forwards are dime a dozen, but "finishers" are hard to come by.


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## soccerobserver

mirage said:


> Disagree with this statement.  Not clear if you also mean that elite forwards are dime a dozen.
> 
> Elite forwards are VERY few and far between.  Most forwards don't play a complete game - they don't defend and hold the ball either.  Most just chase and shoot the ball, with occasional crosses.
> 
> Real forwards create space, open lanes and drag defenders with them so that they provide chances for other attacking players.  They are also the first line of defense.  And the ability to finish is more mental than physical alone.  So many forwards don't finish well and buckle under pressure because there's high expectation of scoring every chance they get.
> 
> You rarely see really impressive forwards that plays the complete game with technical skills.  They are not dime a dozen in most coaches mind that I am aware of....


Agreed Mirage and would add an elite forward can change the game without ever touching the ball due to all of the factors you mentioned away from the ball...but most have no clue or are too lazy or not coached or don't have the soccer IQ...

Back on point the kids who received the most offers and interest from our team were our two center backs... playing at D3 level.


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## gkrent

My oldest player was a defender that was converted to a forward because of her strength in the air, then recruited, then converted back to defender her 2nd year LOL.  She played pro as a defender.  How's that an answer to the OP?  LOL


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## Legendary FC

mirage said:


> Disagree with this statement.  Not clear if you also mean that elite forwards are dime a dozen.
> 
> Elite forwards are VERY few and far between.  Most forwards don't play a complete game - they don't defend and hold the ball either.  Most just chase and shoot the ball, with occasional crosses.
> 
> Real forwards create space, open lanes and drag defenders with them so that they provide chances for other attacking players.  They are also the first line of defense.  And the ability to finish is more mental than physical alone.  So many forwards don't finish well and buckle under pressure because there's high expectation of scoring every chance they get.
> 
> You rarely see really impressive forwards that plays the complete game with technical skills.  They are not dime a dozen in most coaches mind that I am aware of....


Almost every team that my dd played this season had a forward that meets your criteria.  Her team had 4.  I can honestly say that this whole season I saw maybe 4 elite defenders.  If you don't believe me just look at the college commitment lists for the top 10-15 schools.  Look at SoCal.  I can name a ton of 2017 forwards that are D1 bound.  Not so many defenders.


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## pulguita

NoGoal said:


> Legendary has it correct.  I believe the poster is stating forwards are dime a dozen, but "finishers" are hard to come by.


Forwards that don't score become outside backs.  Why am I going to "pay" a forward to cross balls.  There job is to score.  I will let an outside back cross balls all day long.


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## Legendary FC

NoGoalItAll said:


> My DD committed as a HS freshman to Los Angeles Valley College.  She's a defender.  LAVC likes their defenders to sit back on the occasional; never the chaise.  Sometimes they will shift to the wingback when they are looking for an elegant shape.


Dumb


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## Legendary FC

pulguita said:


> Forwards that don't score become outside backs.  Why am I going to "pay" a forward to cross balls.  There job is to score.  I will let an outside back cross balls all day long.


How did little pulgita do yesterday in the scrimmages?


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## soccerobserver

Legendary, the data on commits by position are available to answer your query and are as follows:
Class of 2017 
Forwards: 395
Defenders: 419

Class of 2018:
Forwards: 227
Defenders: 220

Data include all commits not just 1 star or 5 star but all ratings combined...


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## NoGoal

pulguita said:


> Forwards that don't score become outside backs.  Why am I going to "pay" a forward to cross balls.  There job is to score.  I will let an outside back cross balls all day long.


There are forwards and then there are finishers.  Not all forwards finish at the college level.  Team statistics proves this.


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## NoGoal

soccerobserver said:


> Legendary, the data on commits by position are available to answer your query and are as follows:
> Class of 2017
> Forwards: 395
> Defenders: 419
> 
> Class of 2018:
> Forwards: 227
> Defenders: 220
> 
> Data include all commits not just 1 star or 5 star but all ratings combined...


Looking at those numbers though, defenders should have a much higher committment rate than forwards, because 95% of college teams play with 4 defenders.  Where as (formations) teams play only 2 maybe 3 forward positions at most.  Yet, the committment numbers are practically even.


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## Kicknit22

soccerobserver said:


> Legendary, the data on commits by position are available to answer your query and are as follows:
> Class of 2017
> Forwards: 395
> Defenders: 419
> 
> Class of 2018:
> Forwards: 227
> Defenders: 220
> 
> Data include all commits not just 1 star or 5 star but all ratings combined...


Thanks for this data SoccerO.  



Bernie Sanders said:


> If your kid is a great soccer player, get him, or her on the best team that he or she can play on, and let the coaches coach.
> The most important thing for a parent, is to be honest with yourself about the ability of your child.
> I have one who could play anywhere, and one who is very good, but not D-1 good.
> The postition they play doesnt matter, as long as they have the ability to play at the level they are being recruited for, and there are plenty of colleges out there looking for all kinds of players.
> I will add, that while your kid is young, encourage them to play all over the field.
> A player who can play multiple positions with skill, is valuable.
> My oldest has played every postition except keeper, in her time, and can move from holding, to outside, to attacking mid, striker or defender at any time.


My kiddo, at the littles, would rotate between center mid and center back.  She was always the best defender, but her speed and ball handling led the coach to split time.  Now, she is a full time outside-back/winger, in a 4-3-3. In my opinion, I think the time she spent at center back really helped her see the game in front of her, so she really developed a great understanding of the entire game.  I honestly think the rotating in her earlier years really helped her become the player she is now. She has grabbed the attention of a few great schools already due to her ability to both attack and defend from her position.


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## pulguita

Legendary FC said:


> How did little pulgita do yesterday in the scrimmages?


She didn't.  Been out for last 6 weeks with stress reaction (stress fracture precursor) in shin.  Released a week ago, ran hard ground last week.  Passing drills today, should be good to go for limited minutes this weekend in Vegas.


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## Bernie Sanders

pulguita said:


> She didn't.  Been out for last 6 weeks with stress reaction (stress fracture precursor) in shin.  Released a week ago, ran hard ground last week.  Passing drills today, should be good to go for limited minutes this weekend in Vegas.


New home of the Las Vegas Raiders.


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## Legendary FC

soccerobserver said:


> Legendary, the data on commits by position are available to answer your query and are as follows:
> Class of 2017
> Forwards: 395
> Defenders: 419
> 
> Class of 2018:
> Forwards: 227
> Defenders: 220
> 
> Data include all commits not just 1 star or 5 star but all ratings combined...



Thanks for the stats.


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## Kicknit22

Bernie Sanders said:


> New home of the Las Vegas Raiders.


Hahaha, did you hear they might be the San Diego Raiders for the next 2 years at Qualcomm while the stadium is being built in Vegas?


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## PLSAP

I agree with both sides of the argument here so I'm just playing messenger rights now... Here is the link to Stanford's commitments: http://www.gostanford.com/news/2017/1/31/womens-soccer-stanford-signs-nine.aspx
Out of the 9, 5 identify as solely forwards, and are all great players, obviously. One identifies as a forward/defender. The rest identify as mid/defender. Interesting stats, especially considering the debate going on here, but I would also like to point out that many of these players, keeping in mind that many players change positions in college, are very flexible and dynamic players giving them ability to do so. Ultimately, it's a good signing for Stanford with CK, CM, BB, KP, and BR, not saying the rest aren't talented players.


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## Bernie Sanders

Kicknit22 said:


> Hahaha, did you hear they might be the San Diego Raiders for the next 2 years at Qualcomm while the stadium is being built in Vegas?


I lost a bet with a raider friend of mine. 
I said if the Chargers moved Id send him a pic of me wearing a raider hat.
Maybe Ill wait to see if i can find a SD raider hat.


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## espola

Bernie Sanders said:


> I lost a bet with a raider friend of mine.
> I said if the Chargers moved Id send him a pic of me wearing a raider hat.
> Maybe Ill wait to see if i can find a SD raider hat.


Give the Spanos family a little time.  With Raiders moving, and Spanos land holdings, look forward to Stockton Chargers - but they might change the name to be more inclusive, like Big Bay Chargers.


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## soccerobserver

NG,


NoGoal said:


> Looking at those numbers though, defenders should have a much higher committment rate than forwards, because 95% of college teams play with 4 defenders.  Where as (formations) teams play only 2 maybe 3 forward positions at most.  Yet, the committment numbers are practically even.


NG, you raise a great point and it makes me think a lot of the forwards are going to be converted to defenders...this makes more sense to me now as I noticed that my DD's college took on a boat load of forwards last year and most are on the bench except one who is starting as a wing defender...I almost wonder are the coaches _deliberately_ over-drafting forwards to see what sticks and converting the rest to something else..???


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## bruinblue14

NoGoal said:


> Looking at those numbers though, defenders should have a much higher committment rate than forwards, because 95% of college teams play with 4 defenders.  Where as (formations) teams play only 2 maybe 3 forward positions at most.  Yet, the committment numbers are practically even.


Newb question, but where do midfielders fall in those stats? Are recruits defined as only either forwards or defenders?


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## Bernie Sanders

espola said:


> Give the Spanos family a little time.  With Raiders moving, and Spanos land holdings, look forward to Stockton Chargers - but they might change the name to be more inclusive, like Big Bay Chargers.


San Diego to Stockton.
Sounds like an upgrade, lol.


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## Anomaly

Bernie Sanders said:


> New home of the Las Vegas Raiders.


Don't remind me.


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## soccerobserver

Great


bruinblue14 said:


> Newb question, but where do midfielders fall in those stats? Are recruits defined as only either forwards or defenders?


 Fair question here is the complete set of data:

 Girls Class of 2017:
Forwards: 395
Defenders: 419
Midfielders: 544
Goalkeepers: 177

The data and NG's point support what Legendary said though not the exact way he said it...basically it seems forwards are "drafted " at a disproportionately higher rate than defenders. Maybe that is the wrong way to look at it tho...I have no idea...

At least that's one way to look at the data. No source is perfect...I used Top Drawer data...maybe someone else has a better source...also the GK data seems high to me...here is the link for those who want to drill further:

https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/search/?query=&genderId=f&graduationYear=2017&positionId=6&playerRating=&stateId=All&pageNo=0&area=commitments


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## NoGoal

PLSAP said:


> I agree with both sides of the argument here so I'm just playing messenger rights now... Here is the link to Stanford's commitments: http://www.gostanford.com/news/2017/1/31/womens-soccer-stanford-signs-nine.aspx
> Out of the 9, 5 identify as solely forwards, and are all great players, obviously. One identifies as a forward/defender. The rest identify as mid/defender. Interesting stats, especially considering the debate going on here, but I would also like to point out that many of these players, keeping in mind that many players change positions in college, are very flexible and dynamic players giving them ability to do so. Ultimately, it's a good signing for Stanford with CK, CM, BB, KP, and BR, not saying the rest aren't talented players.



I am very familiar with Stanford's incoming freshmen class.  Most of their recruits play forward on their club team, but I can assure you....they were recruited to play their YNT position.

*KP on her club team primarily plays attacking mid and forward, YNT she is a wingback
*JH on her club team is primarily a forward, YNT she is a wingback
*SS on her club is primarily a forward, YNT she is a wingback
*BR on her club team is primarily a holding mid, YNT she is a centerback (not 100% though)

Of course that can change with player injuries.


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## NoGoal

soccerobserver said:


> NG,
> 
> NG, you raise a great point and it makes me think a lot of the forwards are going to be converted to defenders...this makes more sense to me now as I noticed that my DD's college took on a boat load of forwards last year and most are on the bench except one who is starting as a wing defender...I almost wonder are the coaches _deliberately_ over-drafting forwards to see what sticks and converting the rest to something else..???


Great question, IMO, they are....because as I posted, it's difficult to project if a forward will be a "finisher" at the college level.  Example: Amber Munerlyn (UNC/UCLA) was a top 10 recruit in her class, scored goals in college, but not at the same rate as Ashley Hatch (BYU).  Ashley Hatch believe this or not was a B team player at Legends...yet, scored a ton of goals in college.  What college coach besides BYU, could have predicted that?

Thus, the reason for committing so many forwards.  If it doesn't pan out...those forwards are sitting and are at a crossroads.  They either quit soccer, transfer to another school to play forward, okay with sitting or convert to a new position where they can help their teammates.


----------



## Legendary FC

soccerobserver said:


> Agreed Mirage and would add an elite forward can change the game without ever touching the ball due to all of the factors you mentioned away from the ball...but most have no clue or are too lazy or not coached or don't have the soccer IQ...
> 
> Back on point the kids who received the most offers and interest from our team were our two center backs... playing at D3 level.


I don't disagree with you and I consider what you define as a "special" forward.  I saw a lot of them this season.  I can also say that they look shocked when they come up against an elite defender that forces them out of their comfort zone.  Those type of defenders are few and far between and they get to write their ticket!  Most players that play forward or attacking mid at the D1 level on any team usually are pretty dangerous with the ball at their feet.  Players that can stay in front of those players without diving in are valuable. Players that can force those players a certain way, steal the ball and start the attack are unicorns!


----------



## timbuck

Are more club teams playing out of the back / building up than they were 5 years ago?

If so- will this lead to players on the back line having a higher skill level than in the past?


----------



## pooka

as the parent of  ulittle (middle? whats u14?) I noticed the same thing, lol the forwards get the glory. but since she was tiny my DD has "roamed" up the sideline, and that turned into her attacking naturally as she got older. last year she scored as much as the forwards on her team did.  now she splits time at outside back and forward, and my hope is that come recruiting time in 2 years that will help her to stand out as an elite defender....we shall see


----------



## Legendary FC

pooka said:


> as the parent of  ulittle (middle? whats u14?) I noticed the same thing, lol the forwards get the glory. but since she was tiny my DD has "roamed" up the sideline, and that turned into her attacking naturally as she got older. last year she scored as much as the forwards on her team did.  now she splits time at outside back and forward, and my hope is that come recruiting time in 2 years that will help her to stand out as an elite defender....we shall see


Don't let them pigeon hole her as a forward.  Keep her versatile and keep her defensive skills sharp.  She will thank you later!


----------



## Legendary FC

soccerobserver said:


> Great
> 
> Fair question here is the complete set of data:
> 
> Girls Class of 2017:
> Forwards: 395
> Defenders: 419
> Midfielders: 544
> Goalkeepers: 177
> 
> The data and NG's point support what Legendary said though not the exact way he said it...basically it seems forwards are "drafted " at a disproportionately higher rate than defenders. Maybe that is the wrong way to look at it tho...I have no idea...
> 
> At least that's one way to look at the data. No source is perfect...I used Top Drawer data...maybe someone else has a better source...also the GK data seems high to me...here is the link for those who want to drill further:
> 
> https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/search/?query=&genderId=f&graduationYear=2017&positionId=6&playerRating=&stateId=All&pageNo=0&area=commitments



This is a little better but hasn't been updated since January 31st.

https://sites.google.com/site/soccerrecruits/


----------



## NoGoal

pooka said:


> as the parent of  ulittle (middle? whats u14?) I noticed the same thing, lol the forwards get the glory. but since she was tiny my DD has "roamed" up the sideline, and that turned into her attacking naturally as she got older. last year she scored as much as the forwards on her team did.  now she splits time at outside back and forward, and my hope is that come recruiting time in 2 years that will help her to stand out as an elite defender....we shall see


It sure will make her more recruitable.  Be sure your DD has her coach player her at forward and at wingback at college showcases though.


----------



## pooka

Great advice from all of you older parents in here, thanks!


----------



## soccerobserver

Bernie Sanders said:


> I lost a bet with a raider friend of mine.
> I said if the Chargers moved Id send him a pic of me wearing a raider hat.
> Maybe Ill wait to see if i can find a SD raider hat.



Here you go Bernie!


----------



## mirage

Al Davis must be turning over in his grave with Charger colors on Raiders crest.

The only worse thing would be red and white KC colors on the crest....


----------



## Legendary FC

mirage said:


> Al Davis must be turning over in his grave with Charger colors on Raiders crest.
> 
> The only worse thing would be red and white KC colors on the crest....


More like Orange and Blue.


----------



## Bernie Sanders

mirage said:


> Al Davis must be turning over in his grave with Charger colors on Raiders crest.
> 
> The only worse thing would be red and white KC colors on the crest....


Al Davis is rolling over in his grave because his son is a moron.
Dean Spanos is the only guy on the planet who makes him look smart.


----------



## mirage

First, I am not a Raiders fan. Unfortunately, I'm not much fan of NFL these days.  It takes too long to watch.  With two kids playing, who has time to commit to watch 3hrs+ games.

That said, I cannot think of a better team than the Raiders to be located in LV.  It just fits so well.  Best of luck to them.  Raider Nation and Sin City together...what could be better.  Freemont Street will be more colorful than ever!

Al Davis' son seem to have found his way, after failing initially by making Raiders a winning franchise and locating the team out of Oakland.  I don't agree with the statement that he is a moron.  Given your other comment about Spanos, it seems that you are against any team relocating from another city.  I'm not a Chargers fan either.

Frankly, I didn't want (Cleveland-LA-Anaheim-St Luis-LA) Rams or (LA-SD-LA) Chargers to move to LA.  Would much rather have an expansion team that we call our own.

The good thing that's happened since the Chargers left SD is that SD is now on the top of the list for a new MLS franchise.  SD is closest thing to the sure thing for MLS (assuming that they put a decent product on the field).


----------



## espola

mirage said:


> First, I am not a Raiders fan. Unfortunately, I'm not much fan of NFL these days.  It takes too long to watch.  With two kids playing, who has time to commit to watch 3hrs+ games.
> 
> That said, I cannot think of a better team than the Raiders to be located in LV.  It just fits so well.  Best of luck to them.  Raider Nation and Sin City together...what could be better.  Freemont Street will be more colorful than ever!
> 
> Al Davis' son seem to have found his way, after failing initially by making Raiders a winning franchise and locating the team out of Oakland.  I don't agree with the statement that he is a moron.  Given your other comment about Spanos, it seems that you are against any team relocating from another city.  I'm not a Chargers fan either.
> 
> Frankly, I didn't want (Cleveland-LA-Anaheim-St Luis-LA) Rams or (LA-SD-LA) Chargers to move to LA.  Would much rather have an expansion team that we call our own.
> 
> The good thing that's happened since the Chargers left SD is that SD is now on the top of the list for a new MLS franchise.  SD is closest thing to the sure thing for MLS (assuming that they put a decent product on the field).


San  Diego has shown that with a quality product they can even sell out the "too big" Q for soccer.


----------



## Legendary FC

espola said:


> San  Diego has shown that with a quality product they can even sell out the "too big" Q for soccer.


They will have the same problem in San Diego that the Chargers had.  Who is going to pay for a new stadium.  From what I have been told MLS requires that the teams have a soccer specific venue.


----------



## Glen

In LA, the new soccer stadium is budgeted around 1/8 the cost ($350) of the new football stadium.   The soccer stadium is privately funded, but I'm sure they get all sorts of tax breaks from the city.  It's a long-shot, but something similar could happen in SD.  They should try to partner with USD or SDSU to use it as their home football field as well.


----------



## espola

Glen said:


> In LA, the new soccer stadium is budgeted around 1/8 the cost ($350) of the new football stadium.   The soccer stadium is privately funded, but I'm sure they get all sorts of tax breaks from the city.  It's a long-shot, but something similar could happen in SD.  They should try to partner with USD or SDSU to use it as their home football field as well.


USD has a nice stadium already used for both football and soccer.  SDSU depends on the Q for football, and could use something bigger than the little parking-lot roof that is constrained by the 400-meter track around it.  UCSD is in the process of becoming DI if they can find a conference willing to accept them (Big West, maybe, if they can work out the travel-partner assignments).


----------



## espola

Legendary FC said:


> They will have the same problem in San Diego that the Chargers had.  Who is going to pay for a new stadium.  From what I have been told MLS requires that the teams have a soccer specific venue.


As for soccer-specific venue - Chargers will be playing for the foreseeable future at Stub Hub, sharing with LA Galaxy.


----------



## NoGoal

espola said:


> As for soccer-specific venue - Chargers will be playing for the foreseeable future at Stub Hub, sharing with LA Galaxy.


If the Chargers will temporarily use the Stub Hub with a capacity of 27K, then the Raiders can temporarily  use UNLV's Sam Boyd Stadium with a capacity of 40K.


----------



## Kicknit22

Bernie Sanders said:


> Al Davis is rolling over in his grave because his son is a moron.
> Dean Spanos is the only guy on the planet who makes him look smart.


Lol! Couldn't agree more.  Furthermore, there is nobody that can make any of the Spanos look smart.  Mark will be selling his interest in the team very soon, just to save his ass, and because he will be forced to.


----------



## Kicknit22

Legendary FC said:


> They will have the same problem in San Diego that the Chargers had.  Who is going to pay for a new stadium.  From what I have been told MLS requires that the teams have a soccer specific venue.





Legendary FC said:


> They will have the same problem in San Diego that the Chargers had.  Who is going to pay for a new stadium.  From what I have been told MLS requires that the teams have a soccer specific venue.


http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/soccercity-sd.2359/
Check this thread out.


----------



## Bernie Sanders

Kicknit22 said:


> http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/soccercity-sd.2359/
> Check this thread out.


I would have never said this ten or even five years ago, but the candy-assing, and politicizing of the NFL, along with the spoiled, brat like, selfishness, of the players has taken its toll on the sport.
The things that made the NFL great have been systematically erased through political correctness, and a sickening trend of injecting every social justice bullshit,cause into the game.
If soccer can start clean in this country, lets do it.
Eventually it will end up as corrupt as it is in the rest of the world, but maybe by then, we can start fresh with football again.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

Bernie Sanders said:


> I would have never said this ten or even five years ago, but the candy-assing, and politicizing of the NFL, along with the spoiled, brat like, selfishness, of the players has taken its toll on the sport.
> The things that made the NFL great have been systematically erased through political correctness, and a sickening trend of injecting every social justice bullshit,cause into the game.
> If soccer can start clean in this country, lets do it.
> Eventually it will end up as corrupt as it is in the rest of the world, but maybe by then, we can start fresh with football again.


Not much character in NBA, MLB and especially the NFL, everyone jumping around from team to team, a bunch of thugs, I used to love the NFL, but won't watch any except for the Superbowl. Same thing with the NBA, as soon as magic  and bird quit it wasn't worth watching. Too much juicing in MLB, they get punished after they sign a $100,000,000 contract. Golf is all that's left for me.


----------



## Bernie Sanders

Sheriff Joe said:


> Not much character in NBA, MLB and especially the NFL, everyone jumping around from team to team, a bunch of thugs, I used to love the NFL, but won't watch any except for the Superbowl. Same thing with the NBA, as soon as magic  and bird quit it wasn't worth watching. Too much juicing in MLB, they get punished after they sign a $100,000,000 contract. Golf is all that's left for me.


Alot of this is probably us just getting old, and seeing things in a curmudgeon-espola like way.
I hope thats all it is.


----------



## Kicknit22

Very well said Bernie.  I'm ready to move on from NFL in San Diego.  Bring on MLS, then maybe NWSL expansion.  People that want to hold up progress based on a long shot hope of NFL (some day) are the reason we can never get shit done in this city.  If the NFL ever wants back in San Diego, they'll make it happen.  Until then, I'll continue to save money watching on TV when I'm not at one of my 2 daughters soccer games.


----------



## Kicknit22

Sheriff Joe said:


> Not much character in NBA, MLB and especially the NFL, everyone jumping around from team to team, a bunch of thugs, I used to love the NFL, but won't watch any except for the Superbowl. Same thing with the NBA, as soon as magic  and bird quit it wasn't worth watching. Too much juicing in MLB, they get punished after they sign a $100,000,000 contract. Golf is all that's left for me.


Damn Sheriff!!  That's REALLY slowing things down.


----------



## NoGoal

Sheriff Joe said:


> Not much character in NBA, MLB and especially the NFL, everyone jumping around from team to team, a bunch of thugs, I used to love the NFL, but won't watch any except for the Superbowl. Same thing with the NBA, as soon as magic  and bird quit it wasn't worth watching. Too much juicing in MLB, they get punished after they sign a $100,000,000 contract. Golf is all that's left for me.


I enjoyed the MJ domination of the 90s and the Kobe, Shaq and Duncan era of the 2000s.  The Lakers vs Spurs rivalry was a treat to watch.


----------



## chargerfan

Legendary FC said:


> Don't let them pigeon hole her as a forward.  Keep her versatile and keep her defensive skills sharp.  She will thank you later!


I like this comment and completely agree with you. My question is, how do you approach the coach with this without seeming like one of "those parents". I would like for my daughter to play various positions to stay versatile, but it is the coaches team and he has a set lineup.


----------



## outside!

chargerfan said:


> I like this comment and completely agree with you. My question is, how do you approach the coach with this without seeming like one of "those parents". I would like for my daughter to play various positions to stay versatile, but it is the coaches team and he has a set lineup.


DD's team was at a showcase a few years ago. The team was short a few players and some that were there were sick or recovering from injuries. The first half went terrible and at half time the coach decided to play the second half with 4 defenders instead of the teams normal 3 (at that time). The coach asked who would be willing to play defense. DD (who played only forward at the time) said that she would and I was surprised to see her playing right D the second half. The team didn't score any goals in the second half, but they also didn't conceded any. I now have no idea if DD will play forward, outside mid or outside defender when the game starts. I would be very surprised if she went in as keeper though! Tell your DD to take any opportunity to play another position, whether at practice or in games. Coaches appreciate a player that is versatile.


----------



## chargerfan

outside! said:


> DD's team was at a showcase a few years ago. The team was short a few players and some that were there were sick or recovering from injuries. The first half went terrible and at half time the coach decided to play the second half with 4 defenders instead of the teams normal 3 (at that time). The coach asked who would be willing to play defense. DD (who played only forward at the time) said that she would and I was surprised to see her playing right D the second half. The team didn't score any goals in the second half, but they also didn't conceded any. I now have no idea if DD will play forward, outside mid or outside defender when the game starts. I would be very surprised if she went in as keeper though! Tell your DD to take any opportunity to play another position, whether at practice or in games. Coaches appreciate a player that is versatile.


She has been lucky enough to have played a few different positions. We have a new coach this year though who has his eyes set on her playing a certain position. I just don't want her to lose her knowledge of the other positions she has played. I will share with her your recommendation. Sounds like your daughter is brave, willing to step in at defense!


----------



## mirage

chargerfan said:


> I like this comment and completely agree with you. My question is, how do you approach the coach with this without seeming like one of "those parents". I would like for my daughter to play various positions to stay versatile, but it is the coaches team and he has a set lineup.


This is really a myth.  While we all appreciate the notion of being versatile, but there is a danger of being just good at many positions and not excel in any one position.

Its been my observation and experience that a player needs to be excellent at a position.  Being excellent at any given position requires that the player play that position most of the time and be successful at it.  There are lots of "off the ball" movements and positioning that goes along with playing any position and those can only be developed with time and increase in soccer IQ of that particular position.

Its the age old argument of being a generalist (mile wide and inch deep), versus specialist (narrow but deep).  Its not to say that the specialist cannot do other things.  Its just that the specialist didn't train to be mile wide. (Yes, generalist can excel at a subject deeply but then its an oxymoron isn't it - that's called a specialist with good general knowledge, and had to gain the deep knowledge somewhere by focusing on it).

I realize most of you are not saying don't get excellent at any given position, but with all the new parents and discussion about playing all positions, there is a danger of losing the big picture of becoming the best player that any one kid can become.  That's usually associated with focusing on a particular position.


----------



## NoGoal

mirage said:


> This is really a myth.  While we all appreciate the notion of being versatile, but there is a danger of being just good at many positions and not excel in any one position.
> 
> Its been my observation and experience that a player needs to be excellent at a position.  Being excellent at any given position requires that the player play that position most of the time and be successful at it.  There are lots of "off the ball" movements and positioning that goes along with playing any position and those can only be developed with time and increase in soccer IQ of that particular position.
> 
> Its the age old argument of being a generalist (mile wide and inch deep), versus specialist (narrow but deep).  Its not to say that the specialist cannot do other things.  Its just that the specialist didn't train to be mile wide. (Yes, generalist can excel at a subject deeply but then its an oxymoron isn't it - that's called a specialist with good general knowledge, and had to gain the deep knowledge somewhere by focusing on it).
> 
> I realize most of you are not saying don't get excellent at any given position, but with all the new parents and discussion about playing all positions, there is a danger of losing the big picture of becoming the best player that any one kid can become.  That's usually associated with focusing on a particular position.


The problem with being great at one position is there is always someone better. If the player eventually plays college soccer.  What happens when she can't beat out other players at her only position?


----------



## chargerfan

mirage said:


> This is really a myth.  While we all appreciate the notion of being versatile, but there is a danger of being just good at many positions and not excel in any one position.
> 
> Its been my observation and experience that a player needs to be excellent at a position.  Being excellent at any given position requires that the player play that position most of the time and be successful at it.  There are lots of "off the ball" movements and positioning that goes along with playing any position and those can only be developed with time and increase in soccer IQ of that particular position.
> 
> Its the age old argument of being a generalist (mile wide and inch deep), versus specialist (narrow but deep).  Its not to say that the specialist cannot do other things.  Its just that the specialist didn't train to be mile wide. (Yes, generalist can excel at a subject deeply but then its an oxymoron isn't it - that's called a specialist with good general knowledge, and had to gain the deep knowledge somewhere by focusing on it).
> 
> I realize most of you are not saying don't get excellent at any given position, but with all the new parents and discussion about playing all positions, there is a danger of losing the big picture of becoming the best player that any one kid can become.  That's usually associated with focusing on a particular position.


I agree with this as well. I guess im being contradictory. Maybe it's best to be excellent at one position, while being capable of filling in if needed in other positions? I am not sure being versatile means you can't develop excellence in one position.


----------



## Legendary FC

chargerfan said:


> I like this comment and completely agree with you. My question is, how do you approach the coach with this without seeming like one of "those parents". I would like for my daughter to play various positions to stay versatile, but it is the coaches team and he has a set lineup.


It is up to your daughter to speak to the coach.  Your job is to help load her lips and to explain to her your thoughts and ideas about what would be beneficial to her.


----------



## Legendary FC

mirage said:


> This is really a myth.  While we all appreciate the notion of being versatile, but there is a danger of being just good at many positions and not excel in any one position.
> 
> Its been my observation and experience that a player needs to be excellent at a position.  Being excellent at any given position requires that the player play that position most of the time and be successful at it.  There are lots of "off the ball" movements and positioning that goes along with playing any position and those can only be developed with time and increase in soccer IQ of that particular position.
> 
> Its the age old argument of being a generalist (mile wide and inch deep), versus specialist (narrow but deep).  Its not to say that the specialist cannot do other things.  Its just that the specialist didn't train to be mile wide. (Yes, generalist can excel at a subject deeply but then its an oxymoron isn't it - that's called a specialist with good general knowledge, and had to gain the deep knowledge somewhere by focusing on it).
> 
> I realize most of you are not saying don't get excellent at any given position, but with all the new parents and discussion about playing all positions, there is a danger of losing the big picture of becoming the best player that any one kid can become.  That's usually associated with focusing on a particular position.


My dd was told by most of the coaches that she had an interest in their particular program that they recruit "soccer players" and not a particular position.  Most of her teams starting lineup played a position other than their current position in club.  Unfortunately what a club coach, a parent or a player may think is their best position, might not actually be the case when they are viewed by their future employer (school).


----------



## Legendary FC

NoGoal said:


> The problem with being great at one position is there is always someone better. If the player eventually plays college soccer.  What happens when she can't beat out other players at her only position?



I know the answer.  She either sits the bench, transfers, hopes the other player gets injured or hopes for a bunch of blowout games so that she can play.


----------



## Legendary FC

chargerfan said:


> I agree with this as well. I guess im being contradictory. Maybe it's best to be excellent at one position, while being capable of filling in if needed in other positions? I am not sure being versatile means you can't develop excellence in one position.


My dd played a different position in club for most of career than she plays in college and she was good enough to be an ODP/Pro Plus player at the other position.  Focus on being a good soccer player not a particular position.  Once you get to U17/18/19 then specialize.


----------



## mirage

NoGoal said:


> The problem with being great at one position is there is always someone better. If the player eventually plays college soccer.  What happens when she can't beat out other players at her only position?


I suppose you ride the pine most of the time.  

Since most colleges carry 25~30 players on the roster, the math is simple.  If you don't like that, you can quit or move on.  It is what it is.  What makes you think that if you're not good enough to be on the field in the best position for the player, that the same player would be better than others elsewhere on the pitch?

I made the comment with playing for some college in mind. I also realize that some players do end up playing different positions too.  But there has to be a fit on both sides.  Its a part of the recruiting process to find the right match between the player and the coach, including where they see your kid playing.  Clearly, I believe education quality comes first but set that aside for moment and deal only with the soccer aspects.

We differ in the fundamental underlying brief how best to go about development and getting recruited to the next level.


----------



## mirage

Legendary FC said:


> ..........Focus on being a good soccer player not a particular position.  Once you get to U17/18/19 then specialize.


What exactly is a "good soccer player" without the context of particular position?

Waiting until U17+ to specialize, is simply too late for most.  I know you'll disagree so lets agree to disagree on that point.


----------



## NoGoal

mirage said:


> I suppose you ride the pine most of the time.
> 
> Since most colleges carry 25~30 players on the roster, the math is simple.  If you don't like that, you can quit or move on.  It is what it is.  What makes you think that if you're not good enough to be on the field in the best position for the player, that the same player would be better than others elsewhere on the pitch?
> 
> I made the comment with playing for some college in mind. I also realize that some players do end up playing different positions too.  But there has to be a fit on both sides.  Its a part of the recruiting process to find the right match between the player and the coach, including where they see your kid playing.  Clearly, I believe education quality comes first but set that aside for moment and deal only with the soccer aspects.
> 
> We differ in the fundamental underlying brief how best to go about development and getting recruited to the next level.


Have you been reading the thread?  Forwards and attacking mids are converted as wingbacks in college, because there is a shortage of outside defenders who are great at attacking down the flanks.  That is why a player who knows multiple positions and is accepting of changing positions in college will thrive.

Example:  All of the incoming Stanford freshmen players are great forwards on there club teams.  Yet, it doesn't mean they will be great forwards at Stanford.  It's why KP, JH and SS will play wingback at Stanford.  There is always someone better out here.


----------



## NoGoal

mirage said:


> What exactly is a "good soccer player" without the context of particular position?
> 
> Waiting until U17+ to specialize, is simply too late for most.  I know you'll disagree so lets agree to disagree on that point.


Let me guess, your DD played only one position her entire club career.


----------



## Legendary FC

mirage said:


> What exactly is a "good soccer player" without the context of particular position?
> 
> Waiting until U17+ to specialize, is simply too late for most.  I know you'll disagree so lets agree to disagree on that point.


A good soccer player can receive a pass under pressure, turn under pressure, dribble under pressure, complete a pass under pressure.  They can defend 1v1, defend 2v2, defend 3v3, defend 1v2 and so on and so forth.  They can strike a ball with power and accuracy.  They can pass on the ground and switch the field with an accurate ball in the air.  They can run at a defender with step overs and other attacking moves.  They have a soccer brain that gets them in the right position to make plays.  THEY MAKE PLAYS and influence the outcome of the game.  Soccer players will play anything and play it well.  I like soccer players.


----------



## Sheriff Joe

NoGoal said:


> Let me guess, your DD played only one position her entire club career.


That's me.


----------



## Legendary FC

mirage said:


> What exactly is a "good soccer player" without the context of particular position?
> 
> Waiting until U17+ to specialize, is simply too late for most.  I know you'll disagree so lets agree to disagree on that point.


Let's agree to disagree.  My dd played multiple positions up until her U18 season and could have lead the Southwest conference in scoring had forward been her only position.  She doesn't play forward in college.


----------



## NoGoal

Legendary FC said:


> A good soccer player can receive a pass under pressure, turn under pressure, dribble under pressure, complete a pass under pressure.  They can defend 1v1, defend 2v2, defend 3v3, defend 1v2 and so on and so forth.  They can strike a ball with power and accuracy.  They can pass on the ground and switch the field with an accurate ball in the air.  They can run at a defender with step overs and other attacking moves.  They have a soccer brain that gets them in the right position to make plays.  THEY MAKE PLAYS and influence the outcome of the game.  Soccer players will play anything and play it well.  I like soccer players.


I agree, there have been many players at multiple levels who have made changes in position.  My guess they wanted to play on the team or the head coach approach and suggested to try this position...since, there is a opening.

1. Klingenberg-UNC attacking mid, US WNT-wingback
2. Solo-Club team forward, college/US WNT-GK
3. Dunn- can play wingback or forward.  Played both as a Pro and US WNY.
4. Heather O'Reilly- Stanford forward, US WNT- wingback
5. Lauren Chaney- UCLA forward, US WNT- holding mid
6. T.M.- USC incoming freshmen, plays forward at club and plays centerback for U19 YNT
7. Refer to the Stanford incoming freshmen mentioned earlier
8.  Gorloski- UCLA player, played forward in club, at UCLA-wingback
9. Cerda-UCLA player, played forward in club, at UCLA-wingback
The list can go on and on.


----------



## NoGoal

NoGoal said:


> I agree, there have been many players at multiple levels who have made changes in position.  My guess they wanted to play on the team or the head coach approach and suggested to try this position...since, there is a opening.
> 
> 1. Klingenberg-UNC attacking mid, US WNT-wingback
> 2. Solo-Club team forward, college/US WNT-GK
> 3. Dunn- can play wingback or forward.  Played both as a Pro and US WNY.
> 4. Heather O'Reilly- Stanford forward, US WNT- wingback
> 5. Lauren Chaney- UCLA forward, US WNT- holding mid
> 6. T.M.- USC incoming freshmen, plays forward at club and plays centerback for U19 YNT
> 7. Refer to the Stanford incoming freshmen mentioned earlier
> 8.  Gorloski- UCLA player, played forward in club, at UCLA-wingback
> 9. Cerda-UCLA player, played forward in club, at UCLA-wingback
> The list can go on and on.


Correction not Heather O'Reilly.  I meant Kelley O'Hara-Stanford forward, pro/US WNT wingback.


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## mirage

NoGoal said:


> Have you been reading the thread?  Forwards and attacking mids are converted as wingbacks in college,....


Yes I have and you've actually responded to my earlier question about this exact subject as I found it odd that there were shortage of outside backs that attacked.  You might recall that I said its a common playing style for the boys side.



NoGoal said:


> You see less of it on the girls side


I am expressing a general soccer view but it appears that there's no point because the girls game is so different than boys that we cannot have a generic discussion.


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## mirage

Legendary FC said:


> A good soccer player can receive a pass under pressure, turn under pressure, dribble under pressure, complete a pass under pressure.  They can defend 1v1, defend 2v2, defend 3v3, defend 1v2 and so on and so forth.  They can strike a ball with power and accuracy.  They can pass on the ground and switch the field with an accurate ball in the air.  They can run at a defender with step overs and other attacking moves.  They have a soccer brain that gets them in the right position to make plays.  THEY MAKE PLAYS and influence the outcome of the game.  Soccer players will play anything and play it well.  I like soccer players.


Ok your right.  I guess generically, good soccer players can do all of those things and more.

It does not, however, make any of the attribute into an elite player.  All of those things are simply compulsory to play the game at the high level.  Maybe we're discussing in parallel.  The characteristics and attributes are requirements and not a differentiator.  What separates outstanding players from others is how they use all of those abilities.  And for that, you need to have it in the context of positions on the field.


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## mirage

NoGoal said:


> Let me guess, your DD played only one position her entire club career.


Well, my daughter never played soccer.  

My son does and he's aways been an attacking player and has been recruited as a forward and will play forward in college.  He's been playing a forward since U13 90% of the time.  Other 10% as an attacking mid when needed.


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## Legendary FC

mirage said:


> Ok your right.  I guess generically, good soccer players can do all of those things and more.
> 
> It does not, however, make any of the attribute into an elite player.  All of those things are simply compulsory to play the game at the high level.  Maybe we're discussing in parallel.  The characteristics and attributes are requirements and not a differentiator.  What separates outstanding players from others is how they use all of those abilities.  And for that, you need to have it in the context of positions on the field.


You having a boy makes a lot of sense.  Girls have their positions changed all of the time and some players are very one dimensional and don't see nearly as much field time as the players that her coach can plug in all over the field.


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## NoGoal

mirage said:


> Yes I have and you've actually responded to my earlier question about this exact subject as I found it odd that there were shortage of outside backs that attacked.  You might recall that I said its a common playing style for the boys side.
> 
> 
> 
> I am expressing a general soccer view but it appears that there's no point because the girls game is so different than boys that we cannot have a generic discussion.


IMO, There is a difference in college player needs between the boys and girls.  There are far more college women soccer teams than men soccer teams, yet they will have approximately the same number of DA clubs/teams.  In D1 the mens only has 205 teams vs women having 332.   It's why there is a shortage of attacking women fullbacks (wingbacks) and why there are more attacking players converted on the women side than on the mens side.


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## NoGoal

mirage said:


> Well, my daughter never played soccer.
> 
> My son does and he's aways been an attacking player and has been recruited as a forward and will play forward in college.  He's been playing a forward since U13 90% of the time.  Other 10% as an attacking mid when needed.


Daughter, son....I was still right that your child predominately played one position and why you have your opinion of in order to be great, a player needs to focus on one position.  Messi plays multiple positions, foward for Barca and attacking ctr mid for Argentina.


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## mirage

NoGoal said:


> Daughter, son....I was still right that your child predominately played one position and why you have your opinion of in order to be great, a player needs to focus on one position.  Messi plays multiple positions, foward for Barca and attacking ctr mid for Argentina.


After watching Messi for many years at Barca and Argentina, he is really a false 9 anyway.  He is not a pure striker/forward like Suarez.  Besides, Argentina lets him do whatever he wants on the field - just keep Messi happy is their field tactics.


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## NoGoal

mirage said:


> After watching Messi for many years at Barca and Argentina, he is really a false 9 anyway.  He is not a pure striker/forward like Suarez.  Besides, Argentina lets him do whatever he wants on the field - just keep Messi happy is their field tactics.


Of course he isn't a pure striker like Suarez or Ibra, but he can still play forward and attacking center mid.


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## NoGoal

NoGoal said:


> Of course he isn't a pure striker like Suarez or Ibra, but he can still play forward and attacking center mid.


ere are a few pro male players who were converted or can play multiple positions.

Gareth Bale- former fullback/defender now Real Madrid forward
Jordi Alba- former midfielder now Barcelona wingback
Sergio Ramos-former wingback now center defender for Real Madrid
Philip Lamb- wingback, played center mid while Pep was Bayern's head coach


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## NoGoal

NoGoal said:


> ere are a few pro male players who were converted or can play multiple positions.
> 
> Gareth Bale- former fullback/defender now Real Madrid forward
> Jordi Alba- former midfielder now Barcelona wingback
> Sergio Ramos-former wingback now center defender for Real Madrid
> Philip Lamb- wingback, played center mid while Pep was Bayern's head coach


I also forgot:

Carlos Puyol retired Barca center defender.  He played forward, midfield, wingback and centerback.  Yet, was one of the best defenders ever.


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## msoccerm

How about a Center Back (female) that is fast, explosive, strong, plays possession even under pressure, dribbles and passes well, good communicator, great first touch, great technical and tactical and has a high vertical leap. But won't be taller than 5'4"/5'5''. 

Does this type of player/defender get recruited?


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## Kicknit22

msoccerm said:


> How about a Center Back (female) that is fast, explosive, strong, plays possession even under pressure, dribbles and passes well, good communicator, great first touch, great technical and tactical and has a high vertical leap. But won't be taller than 5'4"/5'5''.
> 
> Does this type of player/defender get recruited?


Is she blonde or brunette?


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## Kicknit22

Just kidding of course.  Just trying to be as silly as your question 'msoccerm' .   If she's all that, yes she should get attention.  Maybe won't stay as center back, but you never know.


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## msoccerm

Kicknit22 said:


> Just kidding of course.  Just trying to be as silly as your question 'msoccerm' .   If she's all that, yes she should get attention.  Maybe won't stay as center back, but you never know.


She plays both forward or defender - but there doesn't seem to be a shortage of fast strikers in the US. So she's going to try to get recruited by US universities as a CB. We heard US universities prefer tall CB's - just wanted to make sure she wasn't wasting her time and our money!


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## NoGoal

msoccerm said:


> She plays both forward or defender - but there doesn't seem to be a shortage of fast strikers in the US. So she's going to try to get recruited by US universities as a CB. We heard US universities prefer tall CB's - just wanted to make sure she wasn't wasting her time and our money!


A 5'4"-5'5" is undersized as a P5 center back, but probably okay at a mid-major, D2-D3.  IMO, have her play fullback instead.  College coaches do prefer tall centerbacks.


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## msoccerm

NoGoal said:


> A 5'4"-5'5" is undersized as a P5 center back, but probably okay at a mid-major, D2-D3.  IMO, have her play fullback instead.  College coaches do prefer tall centerbacks.


Thanks - that's what I needed to hear.

She can play right/left back - knows how to sweep and cover for CBs as well as attack defend on the flanks. So she could convert to that easily in college. But her current team plays strict substitution rules to prepare YNT players - only 3 and no re-entry - so it doesn't suit her at the moment as a 15 yo. She couldn't last two 45 minute halves running up and down the flank defending U18+ and servicing strikers! Plus she's too useful to the team stopping quick counter attacks because of her athleticism.


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## NoGoal

msoccerm said:


> Thanks - that's what I needed to hear.
> 
> She can play right/left back - knows how to sweep and cover for CBs as well as attack defend on the flanks. So she could convert to that easily in college. But her current team plays strict substitution rules to prepare YNT players - only 3 and no re-entry - so it doesn't suit her at the moment as a 15 yo. She couldn't last two 45 minute halves running up and down the flank defending U18+ and servicing strikers! Plus she's too useful to the team stopping quick counter attacks because of her athleticism.


Not to be mean, but what does prepare YNT players mean? You know there is about a 50 player pool per age group.  I suggest focusing on your DD being recruited for college over believing she will get a YNT invite, unless of course she is already in the YNT pool/team.


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## Zerodenero

msoccerm said:


> Thanks - that's what I needed to hear.
> 
> She can play right/left back - knows how to sweep and cover for CBs as well as attack defend on the flanks. So she could convert to that easily in college. But her current team plays strict substitution rules to prepare YNT players - only 3 and no re-entry - so it doesn't suit her at the moment as a 15 yo. She couldn't last two 45 minute halves running up and down the flank defending U18+ and servicing strikers! Plus she's too useful to the team stopping quick counter attacks because of her athleticism.









Appreciate greasing the tracks for conversation but common man


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## msoccerm

We live in another country and the majority of YNT and NT players and player pool players play on semi-pro / pro teams - some girls starting from U14. There would only be maybe 10 per age group in the YNT player pool scattered throughout the country . YNT players and pool players play the whole 90 minutes to be match fit.  I'm sure they do this in the US.

I thought from my posts it was clear she wasn't playing in the US. Maybe my English is not as good as I thought.


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## msoccerm

Our outside backs are more long distance runners because they are running up and down the flank for 90 minutes involved just as much in attack as defence. In US college with liberal substitution rules the position would better suit her.


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## Zerodenero

msoccerm said:


> We live in another country and the majority of YNT and NT players and player pool players play on semi-pro / pro teams - some girls starting from U14. There would only be maybe 10 per age group in the YNT player pool scattered throughout the country . YNT players and pool players play the whole 90 minutes to be match fit.  I'm sure they do this in the US.
> 
> I thought from my posts it was clear she wasn't playing in the US. Maybe my English is not as good as I thought.



NoGoal....can u do your Magnum P.I./inspector clueseau thing??

Ps- sorry mssoccer....gotta b from the homeland to understand the above


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## NoGoal

msoccerm said:


> She plays both forward or defender - but there doesn't seem to be a shortage of fast strikers in the US. So she's going to try to get recruited by US universities as a CB. We heard US universities prefer tall CB's - just wanted to make sure she wasn't wasting her time and our money!


If your DD is on a international YNT....why are you paying a club fee?  Pay to play is a US structure.


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## msoccerm

NoGoal said:


> If your DD is on a international YNT....why are you paying a club fee?  Pay to play is a US structure.


I never said she was YNT - I said she was on a team with YNT players. If she was YNT she wouldn't be looking to play in US college soccer! She plays at a high level - but she's probably a bit too short to be a NT center back 

Yes, we pay a fee (US $1,700), but our coaches are professional YNT coaches. They train 4x per week for 10.5 months . There is talk of no fees next year...


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## msoccerm

Zerodenero said:


> NoGoal....can u do your Magnum P.I./inspector clueseau thing??
> 
> Ps- sorry mssoccer....gotta b from the homeland to understand the above



Haha! I've been educating myself on how the US soccer-world works by reading this forum for the past couple of months.


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## NoGoal

msoccerm said:


> I never said she was YNT - I said she was on a team with YNT players. If she was YNT she wouldn't be looking to play in US college soccer! She plays at a high level - but she's probably a bit too short to be a NT center back
> 
> Yes, we pay a fee (US $1,700), but our coaches are professional YNT coaches. They train 4x per week for 10.5 months . There is talk of no fees next year...


Your post doesn't make any sense.  There are many international YNT players playing collegiate soccer in the US.

What country are you from that you pay $1700 a year for club soccer?

You must be trying to pull an April Fools joke!


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## Kicknit22

msoccerm said:


> Haha! I've been educating myself on how the US soccer-world works by reading this forum for the past couple of months.


And "APRIL FOOLS!!" to all that respond and carry on with your posts. Nice one


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## msoccerm

NoGoal said:


> Your post doesn't make any sense.  There are many international YNT players playing collegiate soccer in the US.
> 
> What country are you from that you pay $1700 a year for club soccer?
> 
> You must be trying to pull an April Fools joke!


How am I not making sense?

She is a X citizen playing in X country in a semi-pro league where the majority on the team are X youth national team players/player pool players (mainly U17) coached by professional coaches.  I know for a fact this type of set-up is the same in some European and Asian countries.   The coaches are paid a salary. I guess our fees pay for uniforms, referees, video person, trainer and the team physiotherapist. Is US$1700 too high or too low???? I think it's reasonable. YNT players are subsidised and pay less than that.  

She is looking to play in the US after high school because it looks fun to her and the quality has gotten better. We are just starting the process of contacting universities and trying to figure out who to target at this stage. No sense wasting time if she will not be considered due to her height. 

My question has been answered.


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## msoccerm

Since your asking about her league - the other teams that we play against don't pay to play.  They are subsidised by their younger age groups who pay about the same as us. The difference is that they don't have as good training or facilities. Some of the players on the other teams are paid to play. Very common for very good players to play up 3-4 years.



And don't worry she is not targeting California universities because we were also given the advise to target schools in states other than Texas and California because they have enough local players they don't need internationals.


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## NoGoalItAll

It looks like NoGoal has a Russian girlfriend.


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## NoGoal

NoGoalItAll said:


> It looks like NoGoal has a Russian girlfriend.


keep your mail order wife off the boards.


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## PLSAP

msoccerm said:


> We live in another country and the majority of YNT and NT players and player pool players play on semi-pro / pro teams - some girls starting from U14. There would only be maybe 10 per age group in the YNT player pool scattered throughout the country . YNT players and pool players play the whole 90 minutes to be match fit.  I'm sure they do this in the US.
> 
> I thought from my posts it was clear she wasn't playing in the US. Maybe my English is not as good as I thought.


I did think your English was a little weird, and that you kept saying US universities, but I just thought you were trying to be super specific.... so ummm 2 questions (btw your English isn't bad you probably should have just said, "I don't live in the US" because this is kind of a Southern California forum, as in basically everybody on here is from Southern California and therefore it is natural for us to assume you are too)
1) So why, no, *how* did you find a Southern California soccer forum that a lot of soccer parents in this state, much less country know exist?
2) What country are you in then?


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## It won't matter later

msoccerm said:


> How about a Center Back (female) that is fast, explosive, strong, plays possession even under pressure, dribbles and passes well, good communicator, great first touch, great technical and tactical and has a high vertical leap. But won't be taller than 5'4"/5'5''.
> 
> Does this type of player/defender get recruited?


Is she physical?  Then yes.


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## MakeAPlay

Carpediem said:


> As a parent of a ulittle who plays primarily defense on a top team I was curious if colleges even look at defenders or does the offensive line tend to get most of the attention?  Where they then look to transition them to defense as needed.
> Thanks in advance,


Defenders in women's college soccer are like offensive and defensive lineman in football.  They don't get much attention by the fans and the media but without great ones at team can only be so good.  And just like when the NFL draft comes around when colleges are handing out the money top defenders do pretty well and really elite ones are highly sought after and tend to play more minutes earlier.


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## cowboy

MakeAPlay said:


> Defenders in women's college soccer are like offensive and defensive lineman in football.  They don't get much attention by the fans and the media but without great ones at team can only be so good.  And just like when the NFL draft comes around when colleges are handing out the money top defenders do pretty well and really elite ones are highly sought after and tend to play more minutes earlier.


I like the analogy with football, I liken the left and right back as cornerbacks on an island defending the best wide receivers. Those backs that can run, support, and defend are worth more than the weight of gold.


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## GoWest

MakeAPlay said:


> Defenders in women's college soccer are like offensive and defensive lineman in football.  They don't get much attention by the fans and the media but without great ones at team can only be so good.  And just like when the NFL draft comes around when colleges are handing out the money top defenders do pretty well and really elite ones are highly sought after and tend to play more minutes earlier.


I like this analogy as well. Spot on IMO.

Cowboy said:
"I like the analogy with football, I liken the left and right back as cornerbacks on an island defending the best wide receivers. Those backs that can run, support, and defend are worth more than the weight of gold."

Agree! I like these comparisons. Again, spot on IMO.


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## SocalPapa

With regard to forwards being converted to other positions, current Stanford Freshman Carly Malatsky scored 73 goals in her 2015-16 HS season, second all-time in CIF history.  But by the end of her freshman year at Stanford she had been converted to right back, which is actually the position she played up until U14.  http://www.gostanford.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=9145  In the 12 games Stanford tried playing her at forward she earned a total of 236 minutes of playing time (and had zero goals).  In the 7 games she played right back she enjoyed 540 minutes of playing time.  It doesn't hurt to know how to defend.


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## MakeAPlay

SocalPapa said:


> With regard to forwards being converted to other positions, current Stanford Freshman Carly Malatsky scored 73 goals in her 2015-16 HS season, second all-time in CIF history.  But by the end of her freshman year at Stanford she had been converted to right back, which is actually the position she played up until U14.  http://www.gostanford.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=9145  In the 12 games Stanford tried playing her at forward she earned a total of 236 minutes of playing time (and had zero goals).  In the 7 games she played right back she enjoyed 540 minutes of playing time.  It doesn't hurt to know how to defend.


I know her well as she was an ODP teammate of my player for many years.  She was always a defender for ODP until her last year or two when she played midfield.  I saw her plenty of times at Stanford and I agree with you.  She was an okay forward.  She is a solid defender.  With the recruiting class coming in she is in a fight either way to hold on to her spot as KP is an excellent wideback and Haley, Kuhlman, Macario and Briede are all excellent forwards.  Radcliffe always tries to get his best 10 field players on the pitch so versatility helps a ton there.


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## gkrent

SocalPapa said:


> With regard to forwards being converted to other positions, current Stanford Freshman Carly Malatsky scored 73 goals in her 2015-16 HS season, second all-time in CIF history.


I doubt she would have scored that many goals in Trinity, South Coast or Sunset league.   Not to diminish her abilities, but her number of goals at Tarbut isn't a good measuring stick.


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## MakeAPlay

gkrent said:


> I doubt she would have scored that many goals in Trinity, South Coast or Sunset league.   Not to diminish her abilities, but her number of goals at Tarbut isn't a good measuring stick.


Most of her team and competition at Tarbut wouldn't have made the varsity roster of a Trinity, South Coast or Sunset league team.  She was an elite player in an extremely small pond.  She would have still been an elite player in any pond IMHO.


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## Bernie Sanders

MakeAPlay said:


> Most of her team and competition at Tarbut wouldn't have made the varsity roster of a Trinity, South Coast or Sunset league team.  She was an elite player in an extremely small pond.  She would have still been an elite player in any pond IMHO.


I remember one of my daughter's teammates at North County United, when she was u-10, being asked a serious question about where the best soccer players come from.
She replied with absolute certainty, .."Oceanside and Vista".


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## MakeAPlay

Bernie Sanders said:


> I remember one of my daughter's teammates at North County United, when she was u-10, being asked a serious question about where the best soccer players come from.
> She replied with absolute certainty, .."Oceanside and Vista".


Yours was a big fish in a medium pond that found her way north to a big pond and grew into a shark.


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## SocalPapa

gkrent said:


> I doubt she would have scored that many goals in Trinity, South Coast or Sunset league.   Not to diminish her abilities, but her number of goals at Tarbut isn't a good measuring stick.


Update on Carly Malatskey.  Now a senior, and once again playing forward, she is the second leading scorer on Stanford's team with 7 goals in 11 games.


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## gkrent

SocalPapa said:


> Update on Carly Malatskey.  Now a senior, and once again playing forward, she is the second leading scorer on Stanford's team with 7 goals in 11 games.View attachment 5460


I am glad to see that PR is finally giving her the quality minutes she deserves.


----------

