# Boys: CSL Premier vs ECNL Boys vs MLS Next



## Kante (Apr 2, 2021)

Dargle had some good insight a while back on the relative strength btw the different groups.

Just saw these results from the Dallas Cup.

CSL Premier team Olympiacos (#1 in CSL Premier b05 last year with 8 wins and three ties, and 33 goals for vs goal 10 goals against) won their group and beat Crossfire Premier b05 ECNL to advance to the DC semi's.

For reference, Crossfire is first in their ECNL group with six wins and one tie, with 37 goals for and two goals against, and am assuming this b05 team is Crossfire's former DA team.

Next up in the semi's, Olympiacos is playing the Dallas Texans ECNL team, which is also #1 in their ECNL group with 10 wins and one loss with 43 goals for vs 11 goals against. Game is/was today (4/2) at 11am texas time.

Here's link to Dallas Cup results: http://www.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=80263&Gender=Boys&Age=16

Two cents is that - intuitively - any league that has at least some pro/rel merit driven component - as CSL does - should have its highest levels rated on par with the so-called elite leagues. Also, the SoCal bigot in me (I'll own it), would rate SoCal boys soccer at/above any other region in the country.

Thoughts/comments?


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## RocketFile (Apr 2, 2021)

Generally agree with the caveat that this Spring season is probably even less meaningful than most.

So many kids are switching teams. So many guests and tryout kids on rosters. MLS and EAL leagues taking lots of strong kids.

Looking at last years results probably not that indicative.

Agree that SoCal is top region.


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## lafalafa (Apr 2, 2021)

Anomalies or unicorn teams can happen from any leagues or places.

That Olympiacos team used to be pats, had some controversy regarding ineligible players, coaches, switched to LAUFA for last Dallas Cup, and found a new home with Olympiacos for now.

Time will team which leagues have a depth of quality.  There all diluted to some degree so whatever works better best for a player good for them.

There are very expensive domestic academy program that go to Dallas like IMG, Barcelona, etc that normally don't make a splash at the bigger Tournaments like Dallas. They will have the occasional unicorn player that makes the next step so sometimes the environment does help even if the team is not that great at winning overall. 

Bottom line get with a experienced coach or club  with a history of developing players in a style that fits the player and don't be overly concerned which league(s) they may play in.


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## galaxydad (Apr 2, 2021)

Kind of depends on what your looking for. Each league will have strong teams so from a competition point of view I’d say they are a wash. What ECNL has that the other leagues struggle with is the college going angle. The ECNL teams send their kids to play in college at a much higher rate than the other leagues. Yes, there are kids going to college from these other leagues but not close as a whole. Watching 2 encl boys games this weekend there were only a handful of kids that will not play college soccer with most already signed at the U18/19.


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## Yak (Apr 2, 2021)

Kante said:


> Two cents is that - intuitively - any league that has at least some pro/rel merit driven component - as CSL does - should have its highest levels rated on par with the so-called elite leagues. Also, the SoCal bigot in me (I'll own it), would rate SoCal boys soccer at/above any other region in the country.
> 
> Thoughts/comments?


First season for one of my players in CSL Premier after 3 seasons of DA.  The football is not as pretty but a lot of raw talent and passion.  Certainly overlap with BECNL, EA, and perhaps the lower end of MLSN.  A big gap with the top end of MLSN though IMO.


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## RocketFile (Apr 2, 2021)

galaxydad said:


> Kind of depends on what your looking for. Each league will have strong teams so from a competition point of view I’d say they are a wash. What ECNL has that the other leagues struggle with is the college going angle. The ECNL teams send their kids to play in college at a much higher rate than the other leagues. Yes, there are kids going to college from these other leagues but not close as a whole. Watching 2 encl boys games this weekend there were only a handful of kids that will not play college soccer with most already signed at the U18/19.


That is true on the girls side. Boys ecnl is only 3-4 years old and was largely irrelevant until the DA folded last Spring.


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## Kante (Apr 2, 2021)

Olympiacos made the final. It will be on tomorrow on ESPN3 at 10:30am. Best of luck boys, represent.


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## Kante (Apr 2, 2021)

Kante said:


> Olympiacos made the final. It will be on tomorrow on ESPN3 at 10:30am. Best of luck boys, represent.


correction: on ESPN3 at 12:30pm.


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## Dargle (Apr 2, 2021)

I have noticed that rosters have been a lot more fluid than normal this spring, at least on the Boys side, and that will interfere with any attempt to compare leagues.  I'm not talking about movement from last year to this year or from last fall to this spring, but from week-to-week.  I have seen players who have left Boys ECNL teams for MLS Next teams in different clubs, a week after playing an ECNL game.  I have also seen Boys ECNL players who have shown up on CSL Premier or SCDSL Discovery rosters (in either the same or different clubs), possibly in a double rostering situation while their Boys ECNL teams are taking a break or playing irregularly during HS soccer season.  I've even seen people move from one Boys ECNL club to another in the same month. Without most leagues being under the Cal South umbrella, roster freezes seem to be irrelevant.  It seems to depend more on the club than the league as to whether the roster is remaining stable.  

It's probable that this will settle down next year, especially if HS Soccer is back to it's normal spot in the calendar and players are prohibited from playing both by CIF. Nevertheless, the USYS - US Club divide will further enable this in-season, week-to-week, movement.


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## mlx (Apr 3, 2021)

Kante said:


> Dargle had some good insight a while back on the relative strength btw the different groups.
> 
> Just saw these results from the Dallas Cup.
> 
> ...


You summarized this in your "two cents" paragraph. It is a California team from a "Tier B" league against a non-California team from a "Tier A" league.

I would like to see this Olympiacos team against  a California ECNL team. Then we would know if there's really a difference or not.

My son was telling me the other day "dad, if we were in Utah or something, all these top teams would be fighting for me.. here in CA, not so much, ha!"


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## SoccerFan4Life (Apr 3, 2021)

mlx said:


> You summarized this in your "two cents" paragraph. It is a California team from a "Tier B" league against a non-California team from a "Tier A" league.
> 
> I would like to see this Olympiacos team against  a California ECNL team. Then we would know if there's really a difference or not.
> 
> My son was telling me the other day "dad, if we were in Utah or something, all these top teams would be fighting for me.. here in CA, not so much, ha!"


And yet most of the youth boys players making it to Europe do not come from California!      So we clearly have the talent but other states are allowing their very best to rise to the top and go pro.


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## RocketFile (Apr 3, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> And yet most of the youth boys players making it to Europe do not come from California!      So we clearly have the talent but other states are allowing their very best to rise to the top and go pro.


Not a big enough sample size.

CA and SoCal specifically created a disproportionate number of USMNT players over the last decade+.


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 5, 2021)

I agree with the premise that SoCal talent has a greater width and depth than other regions, with Dallas area being the most comparable. I also thought that the 2021 Dallas Cup was far from the top teams from SoCal. Good teams yes, but not convinced it was the top at each age level.  Plus, Dallas Cup was almost all TX or CAS teams without geographical diversity. I blame covid and Jefferson Cup (same weekend). I do want to be clear that I'm not taking anything away from the teams that played and won.  End of the day, you can only beat who is across from you. So reluctantly, (joke) I will admit that SD Surf represented themselves well at Dallas Cup 2021. 
I am very curious if Man City will draw some top out of area teams, granted there is no u15 International SuperGroup.


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## lafalafa (Apr 5, 2021)

RedDevilDad said:


> I agree with the premise that SoCal talent has a greater width and depth than other regions, with Dallas area being the most comparable. I also thought that the 2021 Dallas Cup was far from the top teams from SoCal. Good teams yes, but not convinced it was the top at each age level.  Plus, Dallas Cup was almost all TX or CAS teams without geographical diversity. I blame covid and Jefferson Cup (same weekend). I do want to be clear that I'm not taking anything away from the teams that played and won.  End of the day, you can only beat who is across from you. So reluctantly, (joke) I will admit that SD Surf represented themselves well at Dallas Cup 2021.
> I am very curious if Man City will draw some top out of area teams, granted there is no u15 International SuperGroup.


Jefferson a top draw for college coaches.

Dallas more for the competition but this go around not a big draw outside of Texas or from the west coast.

In the end MLS Next or ECNL teams pretty much took all the boys boot and ball championships.  The future u18 team from Maryland plays in some regional league I think.


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## 46n2 (Apr 6, 2021)

RedDevilDad said:


> I agree with the premise that SoCal talent has a greater width and depth than other regions, with Dallas area being the most comparable. I also thought that the 2021 Dallas Cup was far from the top teams from SoCal. Good teams yes, but not convinced it was the top at each age level.  Plus, Dallas Cup was almost all TX or CAS teams without geographical diversity. I blame covid and Jefferson Cup (same weekend). I do want to be clear that I'm not taking anything away from the teams that played and won.  End of the day, you can only beat who is across from you. So reluctantly, (joke) I will admit that SD Surf represented themselves well at Dallas Cup 2021.
> I am very curious if Man City will draw some top out of area teams, granted there is no u15 International SuperGroup.


curious did sd surf win some or most of the brackets


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## lafalafa (Apr 6, 2021)

46n2 said:


> curious did sd surf win some or most of the brackets


Two:  U12 and u14.  Finalist for U15.

The u14 team in particular impressed according to what I heard.


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## 46n2 (Apr 6, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Two:  U12 and u14.  Finalist for U15.
> 
> The u14 team in particular impressed according to what I heard.


07 sd surf is pretty good , 2008 sd surf seem to struggle year after year ,they didn’t show well and have been on a losing streak locally too lately—not sure on u12 isn’t OC Surf the team to beat in 07’s, are they better than sd surf?


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 7, 2021)

46n2 said:


> 07 sd surf is pretty good , 2008 sd surf seem to struggle year after year ,they didn’t show well and have been on a losing streak locally too lately—not sure on u12 isn’t OC Surf the team to beat in 07’s, are they better than sd surf?


IMO, 2007 SD Surf > OC Surf.  Not by much, but having seen both play several times, I think the SD Surf is the more experienced and consistent team.  Plus, SD upgraded with some players that left top teams. SD Surf won Dallas Cup.  OC Surf won Surf Cup. SD Surf 07s have been playing at a high level for at least 4 years with that core.  That OC Surf was a Strikers Newport Mesa team before being something else...  They will continue to improve as they play together longer so it is a team worth paying attention to... if they can stay together and not get picked off when LA Galaxy's 07s identify needs or if they don't have the name recognition/connections to get into Surf Cup's Best of the Best bracket. 

The U15/06 SD Surf came up against, IMO, the top U15 team in the nation in FC Dallas's MLS Next Academy Team.  I think that Dallas team has 2-4 legit YNT prospects.  SD Surf got handled 4-0.  06 SD GK shined though.  I don't think that loss is anything to be ashamed of.  I was actually impressed with the 06 run.  Yes, the 07 SD won Dallas Cup.  I thought they really only had to play a tough game against Solar which is a top 40 team nationwide.  They also lost their opening game.  Otherwise, I wasn't wow'd with their results in this particular tourney.  My opinion is that SD Surf 07s are top 5 team in SoCal, for sure top 07 boys team in San Diego.  Again, not trying to take anything away but also not saying it was the greatest tourney run in history.  Although, I've been more impressed with SD Surf as a club lately.  They just got two more SD Surf alumni signed with SD Loyal.  SD Surf has kids leave for Europe as well.  If my lil Messi was a top player in the OC or Temecula... I'd be driving to San Diego Surf.


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## Ed Ho (Apr 11, 2021)

RedDevilDad,  you always have a great, broad view across SoCal soccer on the boys side.  Since you mentioned it, who would your top 5 boys teams be at the 07 age group in Socal?  And any other age you have insight on?  Thanks in advance.


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## watfly (Apr 11, 2021)

RedDevilDad said:


> IMO, 2007 SD Surf > OC Surf.  Not by much, but having seen both play several times, I think the SD Surf is the more experienced and consistent team.  Plus, SD upgraded with some players that left top teams. SD Surf won Dallas Cup.  OC Surf won Surf Cup. SD Surf 07s have been playing at a high level for at least 4 years with that core.  That OC Surf was a Strikers Newport Mesa team before being something else...  They will continue to improve as they play together longer so it is a team worth paying attention to... if they can stay together and not get picked off when LA Galaxy's 07s identify needs or if they don't have the name recognition/connections to get into Surf Cup's Best of the Best bracket.


OC Surf or TFA OC?  My understanding is that OC Surf went back to being WCC.  OC Surf 07 was not very competitive in DA.  TFA OC won Surf Cup.

SD Surf 07 added a kid (#5) for Dallas Cup that was clearly the best player on its team...IMO.  Rumor is the kid will be joining the team in a few months.


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 12, 2021)

watfly said:


> OC Surf or TFA OC?  My understanding is that OC Surf went back to being WCC.  OC Surf 07 was not very competitive in DA.  TFA OC won Surf Cup.
> 
> SD Surf 07 added a kid (#5) for Dallas Cup that was clearly the best player on its team...IMO.  Rumor is the kid will be joining the team in a few months.


oh yeah, you right, I meant TFA OC. That was the Newport Mesa Striker team.  Yeah, OC Surf DA was mid-table.


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 12, 2021)

Ed Ho said:


> RedDevilDad,  you always have a great, broad view across SoCal soccer on the boys side.  Since you mentioned it, who would your top 5 boys teams be at the 07 age group in Socal?  And any other age you have insight on?  Thanks in advance.


Ok, I will bite on the 07s.  

hmmm.. interesting and subjective and just my opinion based on who I've seen...  so all you parents who got a private trainer telling you that your kid is the next Messi... be nice. haha.  

I'm not a MLS Next Only guy.  In fact, I've posted about not playing in that league.  However, (and as a US soccer fan, there should be), there is a definite quality difference of the TEAMS at LAFC and LAG. Sure, there are individual players on teams that are good enough to be on LAFC or LAG.  But there are not 20 of them on one team... not even 6 of them on one team. The physicality, technique and tactical awareness of those two teams is significantly better than any I've seen in their age group.  Sorry.  Again, talking teams, not individual players.  I think Diego (#9 or#7?) at SDSC is one of the best strikers in SoCal but isn't on an MLS team. I think Cam Toth at Arsenal's ECNL 06 is one of the top 07 GKs but at an ECNL team playing up. I think Anaheim FC has some ringers. So..  I could pick players from a multiplicity of teams, give them a world class coach, no fees, free Adidas gear and train together for several months then beat LAFC or LAG sure. 

07s
1. LAFC. Class upgraded.  Unrelenting press with the talent to make you pay for a turnover. Balance of flair players who make you say, "what just happened" and some bullies on the pitch that will run over and through you if you get too tight.   Added a kid from LAUFA's 05s that is a very strong striker.  Give him something to run on to and he's going to get the ball into the box. Got a 6 and a back four of men among boys and picked up a over 6 foot goalkeeper who is a vocal leader.. to challenge their starting very-good-ball-playing goalkeeper who can fly so they're hard to score on if they do turn it over.

2. LAG: Flair for days. This team likes to score but will do with class.  Their bench is still the best on the field but noticed when starters rotate out.  Harbor Miller is something else. Blink and your man is gone.  LAG passes and moves well.  Last year's team was not up to their standard and they have improved.  Haven't settled on who all exactly left and where they recruited from but are definitely better.  Wish that LAG had hosted LAFC on 4/2 but that game has been pushed back. 

Gap. 

3. SD Surf.  Last time they played LAFC at Man City 2019 in the semis.... 7-0 LAFC. Yeah, for Dallas they picked up Kyrome Lumsden (#5) from LAFC.  Don't know if he's staying but see waffly's post above about being their best and refer then to my comment above about the gap.  If your goal is college at 18, not USL/pro... this is the team to be on. Or, if you attend a great high school program and are a truly top player but want to play high school... drive to SD. The team has holes in some positions so I think they can strengthen a very good team. Araux may disagree with watfly on who was the best SD Surf player.  Good striker, beast in the Rebels game.   Why is everyone named Max on this team? hahaha. 

4. TFA. Again, class team that is strengthening by picking up players cast off or leaving LAG and LAFC.  LAG had a big turnover of players at the start of the pandemic.  TFA benefited. 

5. Curious if #5 is Strikers or LAUFA.  Strikers... hard to bet against Willie Diaz in SoCal soccer. Give him another year, one or two more players and a good team will be a great team. Ironically for an OC team, they feel very blue-collar, work hard kind of team.  I think Willie can instill the flair combined with their hard work and that's a good team.  Slowly... very talented unhappy-elsewhere kids will drift to Willie for redemption. 
LAUFA got raided by the MLS teams but still is a very good and physical team. Started out 3-0 in their league then got buzz-sawed by Galaxy this week. 

*Honorable Mentions: *
LA Surf probably deserves a mention before TFA OC since they beat them 1-0 earlier in the year. [That Jan tournament results were confusing so I could be wrong on the score... which one was TFA and which was TFA OC online but I stand by my opinion that TFA Mothership is stronger than TFA OC Gomez's team.]  But, LA Surf just lost to LAFC 7-1 and big to LAG so would like to see them against TFA or LAUFA.  Curious how they did against Ventura.  If they won by 3 goals, I will be nod quietly in affirmation.  lol. 

TFA OC:  I don't know if TFA OC can handle the physicality of a LUAFA team.  TFA OC is a team to pay attention to though... they have a chip on their shoulder and are fanatical about being on that team. Giving a decent team a motivation to punch you in the face is not a good idea... I probably think they may be better than the LA Surf team but their also playing in the CRL now into the EAL... while LA Surf is in the MLS Next.  I would rate the MLS Next and ECNL over the EAL.  EAL you're seeing everyone's second team. So, 7-0 against City SC or 8-0 against Arsenal's RL team in Utah can be a bit deceiving. Sure, they won Surf Cup 2020 in December but I also don't want to give Liverpool the league title earned during a pandemic. 

SDSC: No team to sleep on pre-pandemic.  Definitely a top 3 team in San Diego. Again, Diego is a special player to watch.  His movement and clinical finishing will punish the inevitable mistakes that 13 year old defenders will make.  I thought their coach melted down a bit and didn't have solutions when Diego gets man-marked out of a game though.  

*Question Marks*
Pats?  Why aren't you being mentioned? I almost feel guilty for not mentioning them. 
FCGS: Jimmy leaving cost them players.. granted they are playing hard ball and not releasing players... making 12 and 13 year olds sit for an entire season to punish them for leaving.  Lame. 
Legends: Lost players to David Oh's SoCal Elite team which has been oddly quiet considering their quality on that team. 
Arsenal: I'm still confused with the new Sporting stuff.  

I follow some 06s and will just say that the LA Surf 06 team with Hector is a ridiculously good team.  Granted it helps that his son left LAG and has talented friends who listen to a sharp coach.


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## ggsoccer (Apr 12, 2021)

I coach both teams, just to help you differ from the 2..


TFA OC EA = EAL Team, National Cup final 4 before pandemic canceled, Surf Cup Champs and Dallas Cup participant, former Strikers Newport Mesa

TFA OC Gomez= CSL Gold, newer team made of mostly Boca OC/AC Brea and Strikers NM players not on EAL team.

TFA OC Gomez lost to LA Surf MLS 1-0 earlier this year at Natives Cup,  TFA OC EA then proceeded to beat LA Surf MLS in the finals Of same tournament 4-1. 

Interesting take on the rankings, I’m just glad we are finally back on the field. Hope everyone is having a great start to their season. 





RedDevilDad said:


> RedDevilDad said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, I will bite on the 07s.
> ...


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## watfly (Apr 12, 2021)

RedDevilDad said:


> Ok, I will bite on the 07s.
> 
> hmmm.. interesting and subjective and just my opinion based on who I've seen...  so all you parents who got a private trainer telling you that your kid is the next Messi... be nice. haha.
> 
> ...


Based on the rumors I'm hearing, I expect a few kids from San Diego to move to MLS Academy teams (not named LAFC or LAG) in the near future.


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 12, 2021)

ggsoccer said:


> I coach both teams, just to help you differ from the 2..
> Interesting take on the rankings, I’m just glad we are finally back on the field. Hope everyone is having a great start to their season.


Classy response. Results say the guy can coach. Reasonable enough to answer an online troll politely. I stand by my prediction... Don’t sleep on Gomez and his teams.


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## ChrisD (Apr 12, 2021)

Is it true the 07 LAG team is 30 plus on the roster, due to 08 being disbanded?  I heard this from two credible sources, kinda doesn't make sense to care a squad that large.


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## Thunderstruck (Apr 13, 2021)

Dargle said:


> I have noticed that rosters have been a lot more fluid than normal this spring, at least on the Boys side, and that will interfere with any attempt to compare leagues.  I'm not talking about movement from last year to this year or from last fall to this spring, but from week-to-week.  I have seen players who have left Boys ECNL teams for MLS Next teams in different clubs, a week after playing an ECNL game.  I have also seen Boys ECNL players who have shown up on CSL Premier or SCDSL Discovery rosters (in either the same or different clubs), possibly in a double rostering situation while their Boys ECNL teams are taking a break or playing irregularly during HS soccer season.  I've even seen people move from one Boys ECNL club to another in the same month. Without most leagues being under the Cal South umbrella, roster freezes seem to be irrelevant.  It seems to depend more on the club than the league as to whether the roster is remaining stable.
> 
> It's probable that this will settle down next year, especially if HS Soccer is back to it's normal spot in the calendar and players are prohibited from playing both by CIF. Nevertheless, the USYS - US Club divide will further enable this in-season, week-to-week, movement.


My son is one of those players who moved from an ECNL team to an MLS team at a different club; however, he was extremely lucky as he was kicked out of his former club because I reported instances of bullying and exclusion to the clubs director of soccer as I was required to do as a manager of a different team than my son played on.

As opposed to addressing the issue, the director of soccer thought it best to kick us out of the club and thus, effectively assuring my son wouldn’t be able to play soccer for the rest of the season as ECNL does have roster rules and you can not move or play for another ECNL team in the same season and he is still technically tied to the old clubs ECNL team until May 1. After playing for this club for five years, my advice to anyone is to stay far, far away as they clearly care only about the money and not about their players. What kind of club tries to prevent a 12 year old boy who is good enough  to get picked up as a starter on an MLS team from playing an entire year of soccer after having survived through the mess of COVID and not playing?

Luckily, he immediately found a home on an MLS team that is not only a better fit, but a better team and the ECNL team he is rostered to is one of the top two teams in the Southwest in the U13 bracket, so he has played both and both great competition, but the MLS teams have been harder/better competition.

It will be interesting to see how things shake out come May 1 when ECNL players are free to move to other teams.


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## Thunderstruck (Apr 13, 2021)

RedDevilDad said:


> Ok, I will bite on the 07s.
> 
> hmmm.. interesting and subjective and just my opinion based on who I've seen...  so all you parents who got a private trainer telling you that your kid is the next Messi... be nice. haha.
> 
> ...


FCGS shouldn’t be under the Question Marks, they deserve their own category as it isn’t that they aren’t releasing players (Although that part is true, they aren’t removing the players from the rosters); however, they are kicking the players off the teams and/or club after they have collected all of the club dues for the year and THEN making 12 and 13 year olds sit for an entire season after they have already lost a season due to Covid.

LA Surf definitely deserves some honorable mention, I don’t have an 07, I have an 08 and it is probably the best team we have ever played on in terms of coaching, talent, chemistry of the players, and the parents are all incredibly supportive of one another and all of the players. Not to mention, the club as a whole seems to have their stuff together 100% more so than the club we just left.

David Oh’s SoCal Elite team will be quality as he is a great coach and he did do well at Dallas Cup. My son loves to play his tea,s as he knows they will be great games.


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## ChrisD (Apr 13, 2021)

The same LA Surf that played Strikers this weekend


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## Thunderstruck (Apr 13, 2021)

Ed Ho said:


> RedDevilDad,  you always have a great, broad view across SoCal soccer on the boys side.  Since you mentioned it, who would your top 5 boys teams be at the 07 age group in Socal?  And any other age you have insight on?  Thanks in advance.


RedDevilDad, I am going to piggy back off of Ed Ho and I would love any insight you have on the 08 age group in SoCal


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 13, 2021)

Thunderstruck said:


> RedDevilDad, I am going to piggy back off of Ed Ho and I would love any insight you have on the 08 age group in SoCal


No way. 08 parents are crazy.  Someone will find me and cut me.  At least by 13 most of the 07 parents realize their kids are weirdos, won't be pro and are really looking forward to a fun high school career minus the club drama.  8th grade... we begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel of club soccer. haha.  08 parents.. they still drink the kool-aid that Real Madrid is coming for the kid who has personal best of 6 juggles with his knee!



Thunderstruck said:


> LA Surf definitely deserves some honorable mention, I don’t have an 07, I have an 08 and it is probably the best team we have ever played on in terms of coaching, talent, chemistry of the players, and the parents are all incredibly supportive of one another and all of the players. Not to mention, the club as a whole seems to have their stuff together 100% more so than the club we just left.
> 
> David Oh’s SoCal Elite team will be quality as he is a great coach and he did do well at Dallas Cup. My son loves to play his tea,s as he knows they will be great games.


I was referring to LA Surf's 07 team.  Good team, sure, but they have not faired well against LAG or LAFC and drew teams that others are putting up 6-9 goals on.  They have had a tougher start to their season, granted.  Injuries and playing both MLS academies as games 2 and 3. 
Meanwhile, LAUFA started with 3 wins and hung with LAG for a while before they eventually withered.  TFA hasn't played LAG or LAFC yet but is coming close to replicating scores against same opponents. 

David Oh is a great recruiter and makes 7s into 9s (on a 1-10 scale).  I have also seen players end up with him as their third or fourth team on route to their 5th and 6th team.  His 07 team has a ton of talented players off that Legends DA team but I wonder if they will get tired of winning 20-0 against weaker opponents in a weaker league... It will be interesting to watch what comes of those players.  Quality there for sure though. 

David Oh's 08 or 09 team is one of the top in the nation, but again... I see the potential for them to be raided eventually.


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 13, 2021)

ChrisD said:


> Is it true the 07 LAG team is 30 plus on the roster, due to 08 being disbanded?  I heard this from two credible sources, kinda doesn't make sense to care a squad that large.


Not 30 kids at their game. Normal 17-20.


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 13, 2021)

RedDevilDad said:


> Not 30 kids at their game. Normal 17-20.


21 (2 injured) with a 22nd on trial...


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## NewUser27 (Apr 14, 2021)

RedDevilDad said:


> No way. 08 parents are crazy.  Someone will find me and cut me.  At least by 13 most of the 07 parents realize their kids are weirdos, won't be pro and are really looking forward to a fun high school career minus the club drama.  8th grade... we begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel of club soccer. haha.  08 parents.. they still drink the kool-aid that Real Madrid is coming for the kid who has personal best of 6 juggles with his knee!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can I bite on the 07’s I keeping hearing LASurf , are you surf your talking about the right team , from what I’ve seen on ECNL/RL and in games their not doing well at all? Even Arizona teams have given them a run for their money and beat them. 

As for DO, his 08 team didn’t even win their bracket in Dallas and got by with a wild card , to say his team is great is a stretch.....he can definitely market himself and his club , but anyone can play in Sunday league tournaments weekend after weekend and buck the excel formula of rankings . More power to him, never been a fan of him and his bullshit antics but thats probably why a handful of talent from that area drives to Irvine...he caters to the parents that just cares about the W and that W at all cost includes injuring players, and cheating with players cards but that’s a different topic ..it’s always a pleasure beating his team!

For the 04-08’s , we’ll see what happens at Man City Cup. A few age groups are going to be stacked this year!!!!

That’s the temp gauge for who’s what and where in the So Cal Team landscape for now.

As for LA Surf I’m still confused as where your getting your info unless there’s multiple 07 teams? ECNL/Rl?
I would list 
La surf, la breakers, west coast, legends, arsenal ,real so cal and all AZ and the bottom of the pool for 07/08 boys


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## Dargle (Apr 14, 2021)

NewUser27 said:


> Can I bite on the 07’s I keeping hearing LASurf , are you surf your talking about the right team , from what I’ve seen on ECNL/RL and in games their not doing well at all? Even Arizona teams have given them a run for their money and beat them.
> 
> As for DO, his 08 team didn’t even win their bracket in Dallas and got by with a wild card , to say his team is great is a stretch.....he can definitely market himself and his club , but anyone can play in Sunday league tournaments weekend after weekend and buck the excel formula of rankings . More power to him, never been a fan of him and his bullshit antics but thats probably why a handful of talent from that area drives to Irvine...he caters to the parents that just cares about the W and that W at all cost includes injuring players, and cheating with players cards but that’s a different topic ..it’s always a pleasure beating his team!
> 
> ...


I think he’s referring to MLS Next teams only.  LA Surf also has ECNL/ECRL boys teams, but they are at best 2 or 3rd teams in that club (and in some cases lower and even operated by affiliate clubs).


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## SoccerFan4Life (Apr 14, 2021)

Tournaments have not been approved yet so cross tour fingers that these top tournaments happen in may-July.


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## NewUser27 (Apr 14, 2021)

Ok gotcha


Dargle said:


> I think he’s referring to MLS Next teams only.  LA Surf also has ECNL/ECRL boys teams, but they are at best 2 or 3rd teams in that club (and in some cases lower and even operated by affiliate clubs).


i was gonna say what I saw against some local teams this weekend I would say their flight 2 teams at best


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## focomoso (Apr 14, 2021)

NewUser27 said:


> Ok gotcha
> 
> i was gonna say what I saw against some local teams this weekend I would say their flight 2 teams at best


My $0.02 is that LA Surf is spread too thin having MLS Next, ECNL and ECRL. Their MLS Next teams are competitive, but (often) the ECNL/RL aren't because any great kids who show up get moved up. The exception is when they've moved an entire team into the EC...L and it stays together.


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## CommonSense (Apr 14, 2021)

David Oh is mediocre at best for coaching, really good at training, and excellent at hustling...I mean recruiting. He doesn't have the experience or license to coach teams past the 10 yr old mark. 
His 08's are legit for now, but he won't be able to keep them at the top the older they get. 
His 07's are a joke, playing AYSO teams in watered-down tournaments. 
I do give him credit though, he keeps expanding his club with flight 3 teams. I'm not sure if he even cares, as long as their fees are paid.


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 14, 2021)

NewUser27 said:


> Can I bite on the 07’s I keeping hearing LASurf , are you surf your talking about the right team , from what I’ve seen on ECNL/RL and in games their not doing well at all? Even Arizona teams have given them a run for their money and beat them.
> 
> As for LA Surf I’m still confused as where your getting your info unless there’s multiple 07 teams? ECNL/Rl?
> I


We agree. 
I was politely saying that LA Surf team was not in my top 5 2007 teams. I am referring to their MLS Next 07 team. That, IMO, is easily their top 07 team. 
Not a bad team and some talented kids, I just don’t rank them above the teams I mentioned.

my ranking and $2.65 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks...


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 14, 2021)

Dargle said:


> I think he’s referring to MLS Next teams only.  LA Surf also has ECNL/ECRL boys teams, but they are at best 2 or 3rd teams in that club (and in some cases lower and even operated by affiliate clubs).


For LA Surf, correct. 
SD Surf and Strikers top teams are ECNL.


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 14, 2021)

focomoso said:


> My $0.02 is that LA Surf is spread too thin having MLS Next, ECNL and ECRL. Their MLS Next teams are competitive, but (often) the ECNL/RL aren't because any great kids who show up get moved up. The exception is when they've moved an entire team into the EC...L and it stays together.


I hear Sporting California Arsenal Futbol Club of Los Angeles America United States is also trying to go ECNL, RL, DPL and join the MLS Next.


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## Alika M (Apr 15, 2021)

RedDevilDad said:


> For LA Surf, correct.
> SD Surf and Strikers top teams are ECNL.


Agree to a degree with this.  I am not too keen on the 07s, but LA Surf MLS Next 06 is a really good team.  ECNL and ECRL 06's very watered down due to so much talent at the top team.  My son is on the 05 ECRL, and its a good team, just lots of injuries and HS right now.  For being the "3rd team" in the 05 ranks at LA Surf, they are very good when all together.  The 05 MLS Next is good, but not at the level they will face in MLS Next competition.  We have scrimmaged them and while competitive, they weren't as good as the 06 MLS Next team in my opinion.  The 05 ECNL is also a very good team but unfortunately has the same issues my sons ECRL team is going through....injuries, HS, and bad timing.  Just my 2 cents from the inside view.


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 15, 2021)

Alika M said:


> Agree to a degree with this.  I am not too keen on the 07s, but LA Surf MLS Next 06 is a really good team.  ECNL and ECRL 06's very watered down due to so much talent at the top team.  My son is on the 05 ECRL, and its a good team, just lots of injuries and HS right now.  For being the "3rd team" in the 05 ranks at LA Surf, they are very good when all together.  The 05 MLS Next is good, but not at the level they will face in MLS Next competition.  We have scrimmaged them and while competitive, they weren't as good as the 06 MLS Next team in my opinion.  The 05 ECNL is also a very good team but unfortunately has the same issues my sons ECRL team is going through....injuries, HS, and bad timing.  Just my 2 cents from the inside view.


 Agree to read the whole thread. Haha
I literally said, the only 06 team I’ll mention was Hector’s LA Surf team. Haha.


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 15, 2021)

RedDevilDad said:


> Agree to read the whole thread. Haha
> I literally said, the only 06 team I’ll mention was Hector’s LA Surf team. Haha.


Ok. More time now... yeah, Hector’s team is a very good team. His son is talented and Hector is a good coach. That team will surprise some teams until everyone figured out that they’re legit.


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## YourFather (Apr 16, 2021)

How about Elite Academy teams? Where does it stands among the ECNL and MLS Next teams?


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## Alika M (Apr 16, 2021)

YourFather said:


> How about Elite Academy teams? Where does it stands among the ECNL and MLS Next teams?


I have seen a couple games and i think those teams are less than ECRL squads.  Pecking order for sure is MLS Next > ECNL/CSL Premier > ECRL .  some of the ECRL teams can definitely compete with the ECNL/CSL Premier, and although a bit watered down, some top SCDSL Discovery Division teams are at the ECNL/CSL Premier level as well.  EA may be more close to SCDSL Flight 1/CSL Gold


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 16, 2021)

Alika M said:


> I have seen a couple games and i think those teams are less than ECRL squads.  Pecking order for sure is MLS Next > ECNL/CSL Premier > ECRL .  some of the ECRL teams can definitely compete with the ECNL/CSL Premier, and although a bit watered down, some top SCDSL Discovery Division teams are at the ECNL/CSL Premier level as well.  EA may be more close to SCDSL Flight 1/CSL Gold


IMO (without considering the one-off/why is their 06 team so much better than every other team at their club... kind of team):
Like, as been said, LA Surf's 06 teams is really good.  RCFC's CSL 06 teams could also beat some teams... and so on.

1. MLS Next MLS Teams. Ex: LAFC/LAG

2a. MLS Next Teams without an ECNL Ex: TFA
2b. ECNL Only Teams. Ex: SD Surf
Average D1 or top D2 High School

3a. CSL Premier: Ex: Anaheim FC, Glendale something or other team...
3b. MLS Next Teams with an ENCL/RL in same age group. LA Surf

Average D2 or down High School.

4. SoCal (SCDSL) F1: RCFC, Celtic, Newcastle, Sand and Surf, and so on...

Average D4 or down High School

5. SCDSL D2, ENCL Teams with an MLS Next Team in the same age group: By now you got the point of examples.... haha.
6. NPL/ECRL/DPL/Flight 2... Just go have fun and don't worry about rank at this point.
7. Intercities La Liga playing 11 v11 on a 40X70 pitch with a goat on the sideline and half the pitch is a baseball diamond... 100% happened to us.  Great food options but not good soccer.


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## 3leches (Apr 16, 2021)

Had a chance to watch the LA Surf team and there is some talent. He took the most of the players from FC Golden State and some were old LA Galaxy players so they will be better than most MLS Next teams that went from Flight 1/ECNL to "DA/MLS". They beat LAF 1-0 with a plan and lost to Galaxy 4-0.  I think the Murrieta Surf game will be interesting since they seem to be on the same level.


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## TheVirginian (Apr 16, 2021)

3leches said:


> Had a chance to watch the LA Surf team and there is some talent. He took the most of the players from FC Golden State and some were old LA Galaxy players so they will be better than most MLS Next teams that went from Flight 1/ECNL to "DA/MLS". They beat LAF 1-0 with a plan and lost to Galaxy 4-0.  I think the Murrieta Surf game will be interesting since they seem to be on the same level.


Which Year LA Surf was that?


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## RedDevilDad (Apr 16, 2021)

TheVirginian said:


> Which Year LA Surf was that?


2006 coached by Hector Alcantar


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