# Double Yellow



## jimbohonky (Sep 30, 2018)

Can anybody tell me what the punishment is for a double yellow card in a game in the SCDSL (besides getting ejected from the game in which they received the yellows, obviously). This is the first time this has ever happened to him...
Thanks


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## Surfref (Sep 30, 2018)

SCDSL states a one game suspension.


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## Mr. Plucky (Oct 2, 2018)

We had a player on the team I managed sent off for a 2x yellow last season in SCDSL.  Suspended for following game, and I was told that I was required to log it in the team page on the SCDSL website within 24 hours.


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## SPChamp1 (Oct 22, 2018)

It must be submitted no later than the Tuesday following the game in which the send off occurred.


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## MWN (Oct 22, 2018)

As long as its not for violent conduct then two yellows is just a suspension for the next game.  Violent conduct is a 3 game suspension.  DOGSO (denial of obvious goal scoring opportunity) with a send off is no suspension for the next game (if my memory serves me correctly)


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## timbuck (Oct 22, 2018)

Now you gotta tell the story-
Was it a couple of legit calls?
Was the ref being a bit sensitive?
Was your kid playing “on the edge”? (a good thing in my book). 
Should the coach have subbed him after the 1st one because the ref was calling a tight game? (I’ve subbed a player on a yellow in the 3rd game of a tournament.  Yellow about 10 minutes in and the ref was much tighter than our previous games.   We were already into the finals and I didn’t want to risk her missing the final.   Didn’t matter- we got killed in the final anyway).


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## SPChamp1 (Oct 22, 2018)

MWN said:


> As long as its not for violent conduct then two yellows is just a suspension for the next game.  Violent conduct is a 3 game suspension.  DOGSO (denial of obvious goal scoring opportunity) with a send off is no suspension for the next game (if my memory serves me correctly)


I don’t see the DOGSO thing in the 2018 Rules and Regs, so it may still be a one game suspension.


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## Surfref (Oct 23, 2018)

MWN said:


> As long as its not for violent conduct then two yellows is just a suspension for the next game.  Violent conduct is a 3 game suspension.  DOGSO (denial of obvious goal scoring opportunity) with a send off is no suspension for the next game (if my memory serves me correctly)


DOGSO is usually only a one game suspension


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## jimbohonky (Oct 24, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Now you gotta tell the story-
> Was it a couple of legit calls?
> Was the ref being a bit sensitive?
> Was your kid playing “on the edge”? (a good thing in my book).
> Should the coach have subbed him after the 1st one because the ref was calling a tight game? (I’ve subbed a player on a yellow in the 3rd game of a tournament.  Yellow about 10 minutes in and the ref was much tighter than our previous games.   We were already into the finals and I didn’t want to risk her missing the final.   Didn’t matter- we got killed in the final anyway).


I wish there was a story to tell. First one was a tight call by a ref being yelled at by both sides for not knowing what he was doing out there and limping along 20 yards behind the action on the field.
Second card came in the second half in a phantom call when the opponent fell down after kicking the ball. The ref admitted that he forgot that the kid already had a yellow, but that didn’t stop the kids on the other team from gleefully reminding him about it or the ref  telling him sorry but he had to give him a red. It was lame and in the end costly, but isn’t that par for the course in SoCal soccer?!


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## coachrefparent (Oct 24, 2018)

jimbohonky said:


> I wish there was a story to tell. First one was a tight call by a ref being yelled at by both sides for not knowing what he was doing out there and limping along 20 yards behind the action on the field.
> Second card came in the second half in a phantom call when the opponent fell down after kicking the ball. The ref admitted that he forgot that the kid already had a yellow, but that didn’t stop the kids on the other team from gleefully reminding him about it or the ref  telling him sorry but he had to give him a red. It was lame and in the end costly, but isn’t that par for the course in SoCal soccer?!


Of course your kid didn't  commit the fouls. Par for the course.


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## SPChamp1 (Oct 24, 2018)

Our team had a very eventful weekend of games as well. On Saturday, my son received two yellow cards within about 3 minutes of each other. First card came as a defender beat him to the ball. From where I was standing it appeared that he shoved the defender in the back. Fair call, in my opinion, however, I don’t necessarily think it was yellow card worthy but I can see why the Ref did card him. The second card came a couple minutes later. A through ball was played down the line and my son has his head turned toward the ball as it was coming and the defender went through my son on his way to the ball. In the defender’s defense, he too was focused entirely on the ball and I don’t think he even saw my son.  The defender got knocked down, while my son stumbled but stayed on his feet. Incidental contact if I ever saw it from my Ref experience, but my son was given another yellow.

Then the Center Ref from Saturday was the AR of our game on Sunday. In about the 2nd or 3rd minute of the game, our team’s goalie comes out to make a play on the ball outside of the penalty area. Goes to ground, only gets a glancing touch off his body on the ball but does clip the attacker. Not huge contact but enough to trip up the attacker.  Straight red for DOGSO. If you go over the 4 D’s of a DOGSO, this call doesn’t check any of those situations. The Center initially had his yellow card out, which I completely agreed with, but after a discussion with the AR (who officiated our game the day before), decides to pocket the yellow and go straight red.

I know reffing is difficult, I do it most weekends myself, but what I struggle with is these referees who take their interpretation of the Laws is the Game to extremes and forget that these are youth players and not professionals.

The biggest compliment I can get as a referee is if no one remembers I reffed their game.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 24, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> Of course your kid didn't  commit the fouls. Par for the course.


my 


SPChamp1 said:


> Our team had a very eventful weekend of games as well. On Saturday, my son received two yellow cards within about 3 minutes of each other. First card came as a defender beat him to the ball. From where I was standing it appeared that he shoved the defender in the back. Fair call, in my opinion, however, I don’t necessarily think it was yellow card worthy but I can see why the Ref did card him. The second card came a couple minutes later. A through ball was played down the line and my son has his head turned toward the ball as it was coming and the defender went through my son on his way to the ball. In the defender’s defense, he too was focused entirely on the ball and I don’t think he even saw my son.  The defender got knocked down, while my son stumbled but stayed on his feet. Incidental contact if I ever saw it from my Ref experience, but my son was given another yellow.
> 
> Then the Center Ref from Saturday was the AR of our game on Sunday. In about the 2nd or 3rd minute of the game, our team’s goalie comes out to make a play on the ball outside of the penalty area. Goes to ground, only gets a glancing touch off his body on the ball but does clip the attacker. Not huge contact but enough to trip up the attacker.  Straight red for DOGSO. If you go over the 4 D’s of a DOGSO, this call doesn’t check any of those situations. The Center initially had his yellow card out, which I completely agreed with, but after a discussion with the AR (who officiated our game the day before), decides to pocket the yellow and go straight red.
> 
> ...


same every week. when a ref does a good job one should tell him or her (as i have done myself) - "you did a great job". even if they did bad, still say "thank you". sometimes a proper conversation cant be had, but still say "thanks". had one ref do three games in a row for us two weeks ago and third game it was noticed on the game sheet he had yellow carded our coach - yet he never actually carded him in the game. that is about as passive aggressive as you can get. worse than the one's that tell you "i dont have to tell you what the call is". some act as if they arent paid and doing everyone a favor to be there.


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## Caltek (Oct 24, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> my
> 
> 
> same every week. when a ref does a good job one should tell him or her (as i have done myself) - "you did a great job". even if they did bad, still say "thank you". sometimes a proper conversation cant be had, but still say "thanks". had one ref do three games in a row for us two weeks ago and third game it was noticed on the game sheet he had yellow carded our coach - yet he never actually carded him in the game. that is about as passive aggressive as you can get. worse than the one's that tell you "i dont have to tell you what the call is". some act as if they arent paid and doing everyone a favor to be there.


Honestly I don't like parents asking for justification on calls it takes the refs attention away from what they should be focused on. Try being responsible for 22 different players on a field 110 x 70 yards and fast paced action trying to take your time to explain to a parent why you called a foul.


One tournament I was ar1 and a late first half goal was scored it snuck in the the near post. Assistant coach came to me explaining his parents told him ball went through a hole in the net from the side and should have not counted. I was in great position to see the ball go in for a goal. He didn't agree so I calmly told him we checked the nets prior to the game and I assured him there was no hole and he can go check himself at half. While in the process of trying to give him a explanation parents start screaming for a handball and he asked if i was gonna pick up my flag to make the call while I politely told him I'd love to make the call if you were not blocking my view of the play. This in itself shows how much trying to be nice and give explanations during high paced game is very hard to do for an ar let alone a center ref.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 24, 2018)

Caltek said:


> Honestly I don't like parents asking for justification on calls it takes the refs attention away from what they should be focused on. Try being responsible for 22 different players on a field 110 x 70 yards and fast paced action trying to take your time to explain to a parent why you called a foul.
> 
> 
> One tournament I was ar1 and a late first half goal was scored it snuck in the the near post. Assistant coach came to me explaining his parents told him ball went through a hole in the net from the side and should have not counted. I was in great position to see the ball go in for a goal. He didn't agree so I calmly told him we checked the nets prior to the game and I assured him there was no hole and he can go check himself at half. While in the process of trying to give him a explanation parents start screaming for a handball and he asked if i was gonna pick up my flag to make the call while I politely told him I'd love to make the call if you were not blocking my view of the play. This in itself shows how much trying to be nice and give explanations during high paced game is very hard to do for an ar let alone a center ref.


Not talking about parents, they shouldnt be involved. There are refs out there that tell coaches "i dont have to explain a call" or "i dont have to tell you what the call is". HS level probably the worst but seen this attitude more at youth level now.


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## Surfref (Oct 24, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Not talking about parents, they shouldnt be involved. There are refs out there that tell coaches "i dont have to explain a call" or "i dont have to tell you what the call is". HS level probably the worst but seen this attitude more at youth level now.


I will almost always tell the players if they ask.  If I have time and the coach is relatively close, I will either tell the coach or ask one of the  players to tell the coach.  I will not yell across the field to the coach.  If I have a foul and a player ends up on the ground, I have numerous things to take care of; check the condition of the player and take the necessary action, make eye contact with my AR's, keep an eye on the players involved and teammates so there is not a fight, determine if I am going to issue a warning or card and what color, if there will be a quick restart or ceremonial restart, move the wall if necessary, make sure my AR's are ready to go, take care of subs.........and last on my list of things to do would be to explain to a coach what I called and when they usually already know.  I would never say, "I don't have to explain a call" or "I don't have to tell you what the call is."  I would just ignore them and tell the players.


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## Surfref (Oct 24, 2018)

SPChamp1 said:


> .....Then the Center Ref from Saturday was the AR of our game on Sunday. In about the 2nd or 3rd minute of the game, our team’s goalie comes out to make a play on the ball outside of the penalty area. Goes to ground, only gets a glancing touch off his body on the ball but does clip the attacker. Not huge contact but enough to trip up the attacker.  Straight red for DOGSO. If you go over the 4 D’s of a DOGSO, this call doesn’t check any of those situations. The Center initially had his yellow card out, which I completely agreed with, but after a discussion with the AR (who officiated our game the day before), decides to pocket the yellow and go straight red.......


Remember with the 2018/2019 LOTG there is no Yellow card DOGSO outside the penalty area.  To be a Yellow card DOGSO the qualifying infraction must be in the penalty area.  If the attacker was headed in the general *D*irection of the goal, with the keeper being the last *D*efender between him and the goal, the ball within playing *D*istance and just outside of the penalty area (*D*istance to goal), the keeper clipping (tripping) the attacker would normally meet the criteria for a DOGSO Red card.  But I was not there to see it.  I called a very similar DOGSO Red a couple weeks ago that the coach and manager kept yelling that it was a DOGSO Yellow.  They were wrong, because there cannot be a DOGSO Yellow outside of the penalty area.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 24, 2018)

Surfref said:


> I will almost always tell the players if they ask.  If I have time and the coach is relatively close, I will either tell the coach or ask one of the  players to tell the coach.  I will not yell across the field to the coach.  If I have a foul and a player ends up on the ground, I have numerous things to take care of; check the condition of the player and take the necessary action, make eye contact with my AR's, keep an eye on the players involved and teammates so there is not a fight, determine if I am going to issue a warning or card and what color, if there will be a quick restart or ceremonial restart, move the wall if necessary, make sure my AR's are ready to go, take care of subs.........and last on my list of things to do would be to explain to a coach what I called and when they usually already know.  I would never say, "I don't have to explain a call" or "I don't have to tell you what the call is."  I would just ignore them and tell the players.


come on, coaches arent expecting a call to be explained across the field. usually that happens if there is a break in play or talking to the AR who will usually relay it later. good you check players, have kids crossed checks to the point you can hear the collusion and have to yell at refs to stop the game - never mind the foul, check on the kid who isnt moving on the floor.

yes, 9/10 calls you know what is going on. but if you see a kid kick a ball at his teammates stomach and the ball goes out of bounds with no opposing player near them and give the ball to the team who kicked the ball, one might ask "Hey can i get clarification on that call". youll get random whistles where clearly nothing is going on and you have to ask "hey can i get a clarification" - you would be surprised how many times you get "No" or "Stop!". Even when no one is being rude and believe the question is fair. This rarely happened over a decade of games Ive been on the sidelines to hear - but I hear it way more often now. Maybe the crazy guy I first heard years ago is teaching refs now?  A couple years ago one of the refs who said the same thing was telling other refs (during a tournament), "Dont say much. Control it. You have to get in and out of games then collect." Which led me to telling the guy that was shit advice and stop spreading how to be a bad ref to other refs - which led to dude telling me how much of a worthless human being I was. Not all refs are bad, but the bad ones are pretty unforgettable.


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## jimbohonky (Oct 24, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> Of course your kid didn't  commit the fouls. Par for the course.


Nobody was talking to you, troll.
Back to your cave!!!


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## Frank (Oct 24, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> come on, coaches arent expecting a call to be explained across the field. usually that happens if there is a break in play or talking to the AR who will usually relay it later. good you check players, have kids crossed checks to the point you can hear the collusion and have to yell at refs to stop the game - never mind the foul, check on the kid who isnt moving on the floor.
> 
> yes, 9/10 calls you know what is going on. but if you see a kid kick a ball at his teammates stomach and the ball goes out of bounds with no opposing player near them and give the ball to the team who kicked the ball, one might ask "Hey can i get clarification on that call". youll get random whistles where clearly nothing is going on and you have to ask "hey can i get a clarification" - you would be surprised how many times you get "No" or "Stop!". Even when no one is being rude and believe the question is fair. This rarely happened over a decade of games Ive been on the sidelines to hear - but I hear it way more often now. Maybe the crazy guy I first heard years ago is teaching refs now?  A couple years ago one of the refs who said the same thing was telling other refs (during a tournament), "Dont say much. Control it. You have to get in and out of games then collect." Which led me to telling the guy that was shit advice and stop spreading how to be a bad ref to other refs - which led to dude telling me how much of a worthless human being I was. Not all refs are bad, but the bad ones are pretty unforgettable.


There is no parent that should be instructing a ref on how to act even though you may be right. That is not the chain of command. Refs have assessors, peers, associations and leagues to give them instruction.


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## SPChamp1 (Oct 24, 2018)

Surfref said:


> Remember with the 2018/2019 LOTG there is no Yellow card DOGSO outside the penalty area.  To be a Yellow card DOGSO the qualifying infraction must be in the penalty area.  If the attacker was headed in the general *D*irection of the goal, with the keeper being the last *D*efender between him and the goal, the ball within playing *D*istance and just outside of the penalty area (*D*istance to goal), the keeper clipping (tripping) the attacker would normally meet the criteria for a DOGSO Red card.  But I was not there to see it.  I called a very similar DOGSO Red a couple weeks ago that the coach and manager kept yelling that it was a DOGSO Yellow.  They were wrong, because there cannot be a DOGSO Yellow outside of the penalty area.


I understand the DOGSO guidelines. In this particular case, there was the LB about 3 steps behind the attacker. The 2 CB’s were between the attacker and the goal with the LCB being about 8yds from the play and the RCB being about 6 yds from the goal line. The attackers 1st touch on the ball was taking him toward the end line but toward the corner flag instead of toward goal. 

Not a single one of the 4 criteria for a DOGSO was met in this particular case and that is what I’m saying. So a yellow card to the GK for being a “technical” foul would have absolutely been warranted. When I spoke to Referee after the game in a non confrontational manner, I asked him what he saw to consider it a DOGSO and his response was simply that the player made an attempt at the ball but missed and made contact with an attacker. I asked him which of the 4 D’s this particular play met, he said those didn’t matter and the moment the player made contact with an attacker without touching the ball it become a DOGSO situation. We ended up having a decent length conversation about this but at the end, he was still convinced that he was right even with me presenting my case.


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## SPChamp1 (Oct 24, 2018)

Frank said:


> There is no parent that should be instructing a ref on how to act even though you may be right. That is not the chain of command. Refs have assessors, peers, associations and leagues to give them instruction.


But do they? I’m sure they do once they initially join an association, but having worked with a few associations closely and meeting/speaking with Assignors and Assessors it seems like Associations are hurting for Referees themselves so they aren’t afforded the luxury of being selective.


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## Surfref (Oct 24, 2018)

SPChamp1 said:


> I understand the DOGSO guidelines. In this particular case, there was the LB about 3 steps behind the attacker. The 2 CB’s were between the attacker and the goal with the LCB being about 8yds from the play and the RCB being about 6 yds from the goal line. The attackers 1st touch on the ball was taking him toward the end line but toward the corner flag instead of toward goal.
> 
> Not a single one of the 4 criteria for a DOGSO was met in this particular case and that is what I’m saying. So a yellow card to the GK for being a “technical” foul would have absolutely been warranted. When I spoke to Referee after the game in a non confrontational manner, I asked him what he saw to consider it a DOGSO and his response was simply that the player made an attempt at the ball but missed and made contact with an attacker. I asked him which of the 4 D’s this particular play met, he said those didn’t matter and the moment the player made contact with an attacker without touching the ball it become a DOGSO situation. We ended up having a decent length conversation about this but at the end, he was still convinced that he was right even with me presenting my case.


Agree with you now that the full picture is known.  Foul with Yellow card or no card depending on the temperature of the game and if the card was needed.  Sounds like you have a ref that has not been to training in couple years and has not opened the LOTG in just as long.


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## Surfref (Oct 24, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> come on, coaches arent expecting a call to be explained across the field. usually that happens if there is a break in play or talking to the AR who will usually relay it later. good you check players, have kids crossed checks to the point you can hear the collusion and have to yell at refs to stop the game - never mind the foul, check on the kid who isnt moving on the floor.
> 
> yes, 9/10 calls you know what is going on. but if you see a kid kick a ball at his teammates stomach and the ball goes out of bounds with no opposing player near them and give the ball to the team who kicked the ball, one might ask "Hey can i get clarification on that call". youll get random whistles where clearly nothing is going on and you have to ask "hey can i get a clarification" - you would be surprised how many times you get "No" or "Stop!". Even when no one is being rude and believe the question is fair. This rarely happened over a decade of games Ive been on the sidelines to hear - but I hear it way more often now. Maybe the crazy guy I first heard years ago is teaching refs now?  A couple years ago one of the refs who said the same thing was telling other refs (during a tournament), "Dont say much. Control it. You have to get in and out of games then collect." Which led me to telling the guy that was shit advice and stop spreading how to be a bad ref to other refs - which led to dude telling me how much of a worthless human being I was. Not all refs are bad, but the bad ones are pretty unforgettable.


If you go to the monthly referee meetings, you were instructed on the guidance from Cal South concerning comments from the bench and sidelines.  The guidance was not to engage spectators or tolerate them yelling at the referee crew.  Similar guidance was given concerning the coaches, but to be more tolerant and only engage them when necessary.  There have been numerous incidents of Referee physical abuse over the past couple years and most of those involved a coach asking a question then escalating the situation when the referee gave an answer the coach and spectators did not like and things escalated.  My daughter recently went through the D license course or whatever they call it now.  She said during the training the instructor recommended not engaging in questions to the referee because the referee does not have to respond.


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## Toch (Oct 24, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Now you gotta tell the story-
> Was it a couple of legit calls?
> Was the ref being a bit sensitive?
> Was your kid playing “on the edge”? (a good thing in my book).
> Should the coach have subbed him after the 1st one because the ref was calling a tight game? (I’ve subbed a player on a yellow in the 3rd game of a tournament.  Yellow about 10 minutes in and the ref was much tighter than our previous games.   We were already into the finals and I didn’t want to risk her missing the final.   Didn’t matter- we got killed in the final anyway).


Nosey fella aren’t ya... lol and quite possibly just as gullible.


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## Frank (Oct 24, 2018)

SPChamp1 said:


> But do they? I’m sure they do once they initially join an association, but having worked with a few associations closely and meeting/speaking with Assignors and Assessors it seems like Associations are hurting for Referees themselves so they aren’t afforded the luxury of being selective.


My associations do and they take it seriously and make every effort for more experienced refs to give feedback almost every weekend. 

There are all levels of refs. Some have to go farther to be “good”. Most take it serious enough to work to improve.


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## timbuck (Oct 24, 2018)

How many referees attend the monthly meetings?
Sounds like a lot of work for a weekend job. 
For those of you that complain about referees, how many of you would spend most of your weekend reffing youth soccer games and also attend these meetings.  
Think about that next time you feel the need to show a referee a video you took from your iPhone from the comfort of your tommy Bahamas chair.


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## coachrefparent (Oct 24, 2018)

Surfref said:


> Remember with the 2018/2019 LOTG there is no Yellow card DOGSO outside the penalty area.  To be a Yellow card DOGSO the qualifying infraction must be in the penalty area.  If the attacker was headed in the general *D*irection of the goal, with the keeper being the last *D*efender between him and the goal, the ball within playing *D*istance and just outside of the penalty area (*D*istance to goal), the keeper clipping (tripping) the attacker would normally meet the criteria for a DOGSO Red card.  But I was not there to see it.  I called a very similar DOGSO Red a couple weeks ago that the coach and manager kept yelling that it was a DOGSO Yellow.  They were wrong, because there cannot be a DOGSO Yellow outside of the penalty area.


I love the referee scolding about terminology: a person is discounted because they use an old term like obstruction, or handball, or sideline.... 

They may have been wrong in yelling "it was a DOGSO Yellow," but they likely meant that it should have been a yellow for a foul on a promising attack or any other number of reasons.


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## focomoso (Oct 25, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> I love the referee scolding about terminology: a person is discounted because they use an old term like obstruction, or handball...


I believe the term is now "¡Mano!"


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## Surfref (Oct 25, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> I love the referee scolding about terminology: a person is discounted because they use an old term like obstruction, or handball, or sideline....
> 
> They may have been wrong in yelling "it was a DOGSO Yellow," but they likely meant that it should have been a yellow for a foul on a promising attack or any other number of reasons.


The coach and I talked after the game. The coach had a vague understanding of DOGSO yellow, but was not aware that the infraction had to occur within the penalty area.  Once I explained the 4D’s criteria and why there was no yellow card option the, coach agreed with me.  He may not have liked the ejection, but he understood why.


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## *GOBEARGO* (Oct 25, 2018)

I just want to call out a ref that I think is one of the best or pretty close to the best ref in Southern Ca-Kevin Morales...top notch. When I see him as the CR for the game, I know the game will be played under control. Makes the game easy to watch.

Surfref do you know him?


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 26, 2018)

Surfref said:


> If you go to the monthly referee meetings, you were instructed on the guidance from Cal South concerning comments from the bench and sidelines.  The guidance was not to engage spectators or tolerate them yelling at the referee crew.  Similar guidance was given concerning the coaches, but to be more tolerant and only engage them when necessary.  There have been numerous incidents of Referee physical abuse over the past couple years and most of those involved a coach asking a question then escalating the situation when the referee gave an answer the coach and spectators did not like and things escalated.  My daughter recently went through the D license course or whatever they call it now.  She said during the training the instructor recommended not engaging in questions to the referee because the referee does not have to respond.


you keep referring to the spectators, im only talking about coaches.  Im also aware about how leagues & cal south want coaches to engage refs. never anything wrong with asking a question, about clarification, in a respectful manner . No yelling or disrespect involved. Ignoring comments, or snarky comments masked as questions are one thing, but to ignore "legit" questions is another. Situations dont usually escalate when questions are asked in a certain manner, an experienced ref will know what is legit or not. To ignore the question will only probably only agitate the sideline on other calls. Most of the refs who i have encountered who have the "i dont need to respond" attitude are those who feel they are never wrong ,  just there because it pays, or know they never have to explain a bad call with this attitude. never seen this at the pro level, refs will tell you what the call is and tell you to move on. i know this isnt the pro level, but instruction and goal should be to mimic the most professional setting available. again, i understand some coaches/sidelines are nuts, see it every week, but still need to be allowed some engagement - in a respectful manner.


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## Surfref (Oct 26, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> you keep referring to the spectators, im only talking about coaches.  Im also aware about how leagues & cal south want coaches to engage refs. never anything wrong with asking a question, about clarification, in a respectful manner . No yelling or disrespect involved. Ignoring comments, or snarky comments masked as questions are one thing, but to ignore "legit" questions is another. Situations dont usually escalate when questions are asked in a certain manner, an experienced ref will know what is legit or not. To ignore the question will only probably only agitate the sideline on other calls. Most of the refs who i have encountered who have the "i dont need to respond" attitude are those who feel they are never wrong ,  just there because it pays, or know they never have to explain a bad call with this attitude. never seen this at the pro level, refs will tell you what the call is and tell you to move on. i know this isnt the pro level, but instruction and goal should be to mimic the most professional setting available. again, i understand some coaches/sidelines are nuts, see it every week, but still need to be allowed some engagement - in a respectful manner.


Professional games have a 4th official that can communicate with the coach.  There are rarely 4th officials on youth games.  If play is still on going (no call), players want a quick kick, ceremonial kick (move the wall) or I have to deal with a possible injury, explaining something to the coach is my last priority.  It is not because I am ignoring the coach, but because I have game management issues to handle that are more important than explaining a call or non-call to a coach.  If I have the luxury of time and the coach is close enough that I don’t have to yell, I will give them a very very brief explanation.  Sometimes I will just give the coach a thumbs up so they know I heard them and other times I may indicate with one of the old college or HS signals to indicate what foul I called.  The last thing I want to do, especially, with HS age players is to take my eye off of the players after a foul.  Players are smart and will watch a referee and as soon as the referee looks away the will retaliate or do something dumb.


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## KeeperFolks (Oct 26, 2018)

Does anyone know what happened to the 2005 Placentia Pats flight 1 team for this season?  Their wins have been wiped and it seems they have been ejected for the season.


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Oct 26, 2018)

*GOBEARGO* said:


> I just want to call out a ref that I think is one of the best or pretty close to the best ref in Southern Ca-Kevin Morales...top notch. When I see him as the CR for the game, I know the game will be played under control. Makes the game easy to watch.
> 
> Surfref do you know him?


I know him, he is a Temecula referee and is the Vice President of the TVSRA. He is a solid referee and he will get a lot of games. I think reffing is his full time commitment, not 100% on that, but he definitely likes the 8+ game weekends.

He refs a tight game, he loves mentoring young up and comers. He and I have had an interesting debate on how much we should tolerate from parents. He has a pretty low tolerance for mouthy parents, I prefer to ignore them as long as the ire is directed at me and not the players. He knows the laws for sure.


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Oct 27, 2018)

SPChamp1 said:


> I understand the DOGSO guidelines. In this particular case, there was the LB about 3 steps behind the attacker. The 2 CB’s were between the attacker and the goal with the LCB being about 8yds from the play and the RCB being about 6 yds from the goal line. The attackers 1st touch on the ball was taking him toward the end line but toward the corner flag instead of toward goal.


I think the problem with the spectator perspective (your perspective) is that you (and I if I am being a spectator) are not focused on the laws part of the game while we watch. Instead we are watching the game.

What I mean to say is that I have heard professional referee comms and they will actually say "DOGSO DOGSO DOGSO!" before a foul is even committed because if you see the foul and THEN try to look around where the defenders are, you will more often than not see 2-3 defenders behind the foul. DOGSO is a call that needs to be anticipated.

That 1-2 seconds it takes to see the foul, judge the foul, decide to call the foul, and then the time it takes to physically bring the whistle from your waist you your mouth is a huge difference.
Let us say the process is done ridiculously fast in half a second. Assuming most players can sprint 40 yards in 5 seconds, you are looking at an over 5 yards difference between where the defenders are when the foul occurs and where they are a half second later when you try and see if it is DOGSO or not.

So I am taking your "facts" about the position of the defenders with a grain of salt. As for the direction, if you are going toward the corner flag at a 45 degree angle from the center of the field it wouldn't meet the Direction criteria, but even 30 degrees from the center of the field I would still be thinking DOGSO. From parts other than the center of the field it is more of an art than a science. Remember the 4 D's are only criteria. Ie:I would overlook a weak Control criteria if the other 3 D's are pretty blatant. (weak, not non-existent)


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## Soccer43 (Oct 27, 2018)

KeeperFolks said:


> Does anyone know what happened to the 2005 Placentia Pats flight 1 team for this season?  Their wins have been wiped and it seems they have been ejected for the season.


Isn't that the team being discussed in the "2005 brawl" thread?


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## TangoCity (Oct 27, 2018)

99% Coaches/Parents asking for calls to be explained is A) passive aggresiveness that they don't like your call, and or B) people who watch too much NFL football or NBA basketball.


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## OrangeCountyDad (Oct 30, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> same every week. when a ref does a good job one should tell him or her (as i have done myself) - "you did a great job". even if they did bad, still say "thank you".


after 1 daughter's game, I was walking to collect the other daughter from the nearby playground.  CR from our game randomly made eye contact as I was approaching him and he had that initial look of 'oh shit, here it comes' so I quickly defused by saying "good job today, thank you" and he looked sooooo relieved.


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