# USC and UCLA to the Big Ten!



## Simisoccerfan (Jun 30, 2022)

For Women's soccer its not so much the flight time since Oregon/Washington are a bit of a trip but adding in the time zone change.   Roll this out 3 years and the Big Ten and the SEC leave the NCAA and no longer need to fund women's sports.  Crazy times.


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## espola (Jun 30, 2022)

PAC12's Wikipedia page already has this entry --

"The PAC-12 dissolved on 30 June 2022 after USC and UCLA joined the Big 10. The remaining 10 teams split up into the ACC and the Big 12." 

From a soccer perspective, SDSU's men's soccer team plays as a non-member affiliate for soccer only.  I wonder how that will turn out.  SDSU has in the past turned down an opportunity for its men's soccer to join the Big West, and new teams have been added (UCSD and Bakersfield), so that ship has sailed.


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## dk_b (Jun 30, 2022)

Simisoccerfan said:


> For Women's soccer its not so much the flight time since Oregon/Washington are a bit of a trip but adding in the time zone change.   Roll this out 3 years and the Big Ten and the SEC leave the NCAA and no longer need to fund women's sports.  Crazy times.


Wrote this to a friend:

Imagine this 2 weekend road trip for the LA schools:  at Maryland and Rutgers on Thur and Sun of weekend 1 and at UM and MSU on Thurs and Sun of weekend 2. Now, if the rumors are true and Oregon is to follow, imagine that but flying from Eugene with far fewer direct flights. Or choose either of those pairs and add in a different midwestern swing (say Wisconsin and Northwestern) to just knock out different time zones (since MI is also Eastern).  The veil of "student-athletes" is completely torn off in this scenario (more than it already is, especially in the non-revenue sports). Missed class, sleep disruption, connecting flight/weather delays, etc.


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## crush (Jun 30, 2022)

dk_b said:


> Wrote this to a friend:
> 
> Imagine this 2 weekend road trip for the LA schools:  at Maryland and Rutgers on Thur and Sun of weekend 1 and at UM and MSU on Thurs and Sun of weekend 2. Now, if the rumors are true and Oregon is to follow, imagine that but flying from Eugene with far fewer direct flights. Or choose either of those pairs and add in a different midwestern swing (say Wisconsin and Northwestern) to just knock out different time zones (since MI is also Eastern).  The veil of "student-athletes" is completely torn off in this scenario (more than it already is, especially in the non-revenue sports). Missed class, sleep disruption, connecting flight/weather delays, etc.


I was talking to a very good friend and he's not happy at all with this.


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## Simisoccerfan (Jun 30, 2022)

The glacier is melting and no one is willing to do what it takes to stop it.


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## dk_b (Jun 30, 2022)

One Oregon rumor I saw was SEC. How about that travel? Easy peasy for … football. That’s about it.


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## oh canada (Jun 30, 2022)




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## SoccerFan4Life (Jun 30, 2022)

Unfortunately the rest of the pac 10 athletic programs will suffer significantly.    Someone will ask the question at the highest US court level about the actual focus for these schools.  Are they here to educate students or to make athletic program money at any cost


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## Brav520 (Jun 30, 2022)

Simisoccerfan said:


> For Women's soccer its not so much the flight time since Oregon/Washington are a bit of a trip but adding in the time zone change.   Roll this out 3 years and the Big Ten and the SEC leave the NCAA and no longer need to fund women's sports.  Crazy times.


certainly possible , though my guess is you essentially have 2 super conferences and these other sports are kept a float for the time being with massive TV college football deals

I think , especially for Big 10 they add a couple more Pac 12 teams and some from the Big 12 . The travel for UCLA and USC is brutal as it stands right now

SEC grabs some ACC schools

The TV money is really only because maybe  10 elite college football programs . I guess it’s possible  Bama and Ohio State football say screw this , let’s start our own conference and get a bigger piece of the tv pie money. I think and am hopeful we are years away from that


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## Grace T. (Jul 1, 2022)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Unfortunately the rest of the pac 10 athletic programs will suffer significantly.    Someone will ask the question at the highest US court level about the actual focus for these schools.  Are they here to educate students or to make athletic program money at any cost


There’s been some discussion and idea floating of separating mens football and basketball and professionalizing them. This, for the reasons you outline, will likely heighten that possibility.


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## crush (Jul 1, 2022)

I think the Pac 10 and Big West should combo up for a super conference. New name will be the, "Big Pac West."  Stay local and play local.


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## oh canada (Jul 1, 2022)

Simisoccerfan said:


> For Women's soccer its not so much the flight time since Oregon/Washington are a bit of a trip but adding in the time zone change.   Roll this out 3 years and the Big Ten and the SEC leave the NCAA and no longer need to fund women's sports.  Crazy times.


I think you're on to something here. This makes sense because the programs doing this are solely motivated by $$ (even though they tell you they're doing it for all student athletes). 

Establish the two power conferences and then separate men's football and basketball from the NCAA's rules and oversight by establishing your own leagues. That will allow them to take those programs out of the Title 9 scholarships math, and thereby eliminate womens sports programs, all of which lose money. 

Youth sports clubs definitely have their eyes on future moves (especially on the girls side). If the number of college scholarship opportunities significantly reduces, look for parents to move all that money and time to academic pursuits or outdoors/adventure summer camps -- a much better use of family funds for longterm development of our children. 

College olympic sports programs (including soccer) will need to be funded by private fundraising collectives or face elimination. It's already happening in volleyball and other college sports.


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## espola (Jul 1, 2022)

oh canada said:


> I think you're on to something here. This makes sense because the programs doing this are solely motivated by $$ (even though they tell you they're doing it for all student athletes).
> 
> Establish the two power conferences and then separate men's football and basketball from the NCAA's rules and oversight by establishing your own leagues. That will allow them to take those programs out of the Title 9 scholarships math, and thereby eliminate womens sports programs, all of which lose money.
> 
> ...


"to take those programs out of the Title 9 scholarships math" will not be as simple as just declaring it so.


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## socalkdg (Jul 1, 2022)

oh canada said:


> Establish the two power conferences and then separate men's football and basketball from the NCAA's rules and oversight by establishing your own leagues. That will allow them to take those programs out of the Title 9 scholarships math, and thereby eliminate womens sports programs, all of which lose money.


Title IX doesn't require a school to be part of the NCAA.  It prohibits sex-based discrimination in any school or other education program that receives funding from the federal government.  So if they can completely divest from any govt. money, then you might be able to do something, the question though would research money from federal sources that go to a school like UCLA (over a billion per year in research money) count, grants, would state money that was funded by some federal money count, just don't see it.  Below is most profitable schools for football.   Doesn't compare to the federal government provided direct funding to California public higher education institutions through several rounds of stimulus packages, at a total of about $2 billion for the community colleges, $1.5 billion for CSU, and just under $1 billion for UC.  This was stimulus money in just for 2021. Nationwide colleges get over a Trillion dollars per year. 

NCAA or no NCAA, if they receive federal money they must follow Title IX.

Texas – $92 million
Tennessee – $70 million
LSU – $58 million
Michigan – $56 million
Notre Dame – $54 million
Georgia – $50 million
Ohio State – $50 million
Oklahoma – $48 million
Auburn – $47 million
Alabama – $46 million
Oregon – $40 million
Florida State – $39 million
Arkansas – $38 million
Washington – $38 million
Florida – $37 million
Texas A&M – $37 million
Penn State – $36 million
Michigan State – $32 million
USC – $29 million
South Carolina – $28 million


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## dk_b (Jul 1, 2022)

socalkdg said:


> Title IX doesn't require a school to be part of the NCAA.  It prohibits sex-based discrimination in any school or other education program that receives funding from the federal government.  So if they can completely divest from any govt. money, then you might be able to do something, the question though would research money from federal sources that go to a school like UCLA (over a billion per year in research money) count, grants, would state money that was funded by some federal money count, just don't see it.  Below is most profitable schools for football.   Doesn't compare to the federal government provided direct funding to California public higher education institutions through several rounds of stimulus packages, at a total of about $2 billion for the community colleges, $1.5 billion for CSU, and just under $1 billion for UC.  This was stimulus money in just for 2021. Nationwide colleges get over a Trillion dollars per year.
> 
> NCAA or no NCAA, if they receive federal money they must follow Title IX.
> 
> ...


Was going to something similar but w/o this excellent detail.  It will be very difficult for any major college to exempt itself from TIX.


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## Brav520 (Jul 1, 2022)

If these schools do breakaway from the NCAA, at least what I’ve heard on some podcast this week it’s to have some rules and regulations regarding NiL and the transfer portal ( which kinda go hand and hand in college football ). NCAA has basically said it’s up to states from what I’ve read and heard

obviously Saban hates that he can”t stockpile 3 deep at every position nowadays 

How much did USC pay for that Pitt receiver , or I’m sorry a booster pay?

The only person that I’ve heard mentioning sports being cut , particularly women is Ziegler in the San Diego Trib

Cutting womens sports , that’s seems like a political disaster , now non revenue mens sports maybe that’s possible


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## oh canada (Jul 1, 2022)

socalkdg said:


> Title IX doesn't require a school to be part of the NCAA.  It prohibits sex-based discrimination in any school or other education program that receives funding from the federal government.  So if they can completely divest from any govt. money, then you might be able to do something, the question though would research money from federal sources that go to a school like UCLA (over a billion per year in research money) count, grants, would state money that was funded by some federal money count, just don't see it.  Below is most profitable schools for football.   Doesn't compare to the federal government provided direct funding to California public higher education institutions through several rounds of stimulus packages, at a total of about $2 billion for the community colleges, $1.5 billion for CSU, and just under $1 billion for UC.  This was stimulus money in just for 2021. Nationwide colleges get over a Trillion dollars per year.
> 
> NCAA or no NCAA, if they receive federal money they must follow Title IX.
> 
> ...


True, but the 85 "headcount" college football scholarships would be taken out of the Title 9 math. As would the 13 headcounts for mens basketball. Cover the men and women on the track and field team, and you're clear of any Title 9 violations.


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## dk_b (Jul 1, 2022)

oh canada said:


> True, but the 85 "headcount" college football scholarships would be taken out of the Title 9 math. As would the 13 headcounts for mens basketball. Cover the men and women on the track and field team, and you're clear of any Title 9 violations.


I'm not following.  Why would those scholarships be taken out? Unless the funding is coming from a source other than the school, the governing body will be irrelevant. If the school is offering programs, the school will still have to go through equivalency math.


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## espola (Jul 1, 2022)

oh canada said:


> True, but the 85 "headcount" college football scholarships would be taken out of the Title 9 math. As would the 13 headcounts for mens basketball. Cover the men and women on the track and field team, and you're clear of any Title 9 violations.


So what then will be the connection between the Semiprofessional Football Team Formerly Known as USC Trojans and USC?  Will they wear school colors?  Will the players all be required to be students in good standing at USC?  Will USC give favored admissions status to high-school football players who show promise?  Will the marching band and Tommy Trojan still perform for the crowd?


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## oh canada (Jul 1, 2022)

dk_b said:


> Unless the funding is coming from a source other than the school


Yup. Instead of the school offering scholarships, the booster collectives will pay the football players. That saves the school Title 9 money matching. We are already back to the days of SMU, but now everything is over the table, not under. You realize QBs are getting 7figure payments, right? Average players are getting $50-100K.

If you needed to be reminded, there's no money in US soccer


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## Simisoccerfan (Jul 1, 2022)

Money is undefeated so far and this is all about money.   They will find a way to get rid of most of the sports that don't make money.   Trust that.


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## Simisoccerfan (Jul 1, 2022)

If my kid was a 13 year old soccer star I would tell them to start focusing more on their academics since the future of soccer scholarships is less certain than ever.


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## dk_b (Jul 1, 2022)

oh canada said:


> Yup. Instead of the school offering scholarships, the booster collectives will pay the football players. That saves the school Title 9 money matching. We are already back to the days of SMU, but now everything is over the table, not under. You realize QBs are getting 7figure payments, right? Average players are getting $50-100K.
> 
> If you needed to be reminded, there's no money in US soccer


I think the program itself would have to be independent of the school - maybe a licensing agreement between the team and the school so the team could use the school's name/logo/etc., facilities rental agreements, etc. - but I think if school itself is offering the program, it would not take much for a good TIX attorney to make the argument for equitable treatment across the campus. All that said, who knows where this will be come fall of '24 when UCLA and USC (and who knows who else) have monster in-conference road trips.


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## socalkdg (Jul 1, 2022)

Simisoccerfan said:


> If my kid was a 13 year old soccer star I would tell them to start focusing more on their academics since the future of soccer scholarships is less certain than ever.


Should be doing both.   My kid found out during her Junior year that getting all A's in AP classes meant nothing when it came to getting academic money for college at a Cal State or a UC school.  Thankful for soccer.

I still believe 95% of the schools will make more money keeping federal funds and retaining Title IX then trying to somehow divest itself from it.   I can't see UCLA with 59% females at the school taking a step to do away with womens programs.  They have a 119 national championships with 11 men's programs and 14 womens programs, only 1 in football.


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## socalkdg (Jul 1, 2022)

dk_b said:


> All that said, who knows where this will be come fall of '24 when UCLA and USC (and who knows who else) have monster in-conference road trips.


Flying to Detroit, Michigan only takes 1 hour more at most than Oregon or Washington.


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## Mosafie (Jul 1, 2022)

USC starting paying all athletes a stipend this year. Regardless of sport, financial aid or self pay, each athlete now gets about $5,000 a year cash. With about 500 athletes, that's $2.5 million, some small schools whole athletic budget is less than that.

USC is basically a healthcare company with a school. The whole Athletic department budget is probably less than 3% of total annual revenue.


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## dk_b (Jul 1, 2022)

socalkdg said:


> Flying to Detroit, Michigan only takes 1 hour more at most than Oregon or Washington.


it's not the duration of the flight.  Detroit is 3 hrs ahead. Going back and forth between time zones will wreak havoc on their sleep cycles and study patterns. If UCLA plays at UW on a Thurs, the team can fly out late on Wed no prob. If UCLA plays Rutgers on Thurs and if they fly on Wed, they have to fly early Wed so all of a sudden 2-day school weeks become the norm. If it were so simple as flight duration, the NFL would not put so much time into sleep studies and planning and they don't have work around classes.


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## Carlsbad7 (Jul 1, 2022)

Let the $$$ rain + get the power out of the hands of the few willing to bend the rules.

Talent is something that's being seriously undervalued right now.

Pay the players and let the chips land where they will.


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## Avanti (Jul 1, 2022)

There are plenty of universities with great women soccer programs that do not even have men football,  I do not see why this is the beggining of the end of  women college soccer as we know it. 
I actually feel bad for the soccer players at UCLA and USC (and their parents), starting 2024. The horrendous traveling is definitely a reason to commit elsewhere. I hope that they schedule off-conference games with them, I do not see why not, more good local games for us.


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## socalkdg (Jul 1, 2022)

dk_b said:


> it's not the duration of the flight.  Detroit is 3 hrs ahead. Going back and forth between time zones will wreak havoc on their sleep cycles and study patterns. If UCLA plays at UW on a Thurs, the team can fly out late on Wed no prob. If UCLA plays Rutgers on Thurs and if they fly on Wed, they have to fly early Wed so all of a sudden 2-day school weeks become the norm. If it were so simple as flight duration, the NFL would not put so much time into sleep studies and planning and they don't have work around classes.


You mean the Seattle Seahawks with 29,446 miles and 34 time zones.      If they want, they will be put USC and UCLA in the west, 8 teams, along with 8 teams in the East.   2 hour time zone, 3 away games and three home games.    1800 x 3 is 5400 miles and 6 time zones.   7th game in division vs each other.   2 out of division games vs East means one additional longer away game.  9 league games.  Pretty sure most kids can learn as well on their computers as they can in class.  Some even better.  One of the things that impressed my daughter with college visits was the extra staff that is available to keeping athletes on track.

I'm not happy about it, but for college basketball and football, most are already used to travek and don't think it will be a major issue for these two sports.  Does make you wonder what the transfer rate will be for other sports after putting in a year of this travelling for soccer or softball or many of the other sports.









						Time Zone Changes Give Edge to Athletes From West
					

Traveling across several time zones can be draining for anyone. So, how do professional athletes manage to turn around and compete in games after traveling from one coast to another?




					www.medicinenet.com


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 1, 2022)

Simisoccerfan said:


> If my kid was a 13 year old soccer star I would tell them to start focusing more on their academics since the future of soccer scholarships is less certain than ever.


Send her to Europe.  They just broke a record in ticket sales at the women’s European soccer tournament.  500k tickets sold out of 700k available.


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## oh canada (Jul 2, 2022)

Oregon Ducks hold a lot of power now. If they stay put then Pac 12 adds a couple schools like SDSU and Boise State and forges ahead. But, if they go to Big ten, and likely take a school like Washington with them, then all bets are off and the Pac12 becomes a free-for-all with some schools going to Big12 -- AZ and ASU come to mind, and others trying to cobble together a new conference--Stanford, Cal, Washington State, etc. + Boise St, SDSU, UNLV, etc.

State politicians might also jump into the fray - there's already talk of making state laws to prohibit oregon and washington's state universities from traveling across the country for games and keeping the rivalries that have been ongoing since 1915 in tact.

WCC and schools without big football programs become a lot more attractive for soccer and all other olympic-sport student-athletes...program stability and your college life is not 100% determined by football.


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## Dubs (Jul 15, 2022)

dk_b said:


> it's not the duration of the flight.  Detroit is 3 hrs ahead. Going back and forth between time zones will wreak havoc on their sleep cycles and study patterns. If UCLA plays at UW on a Thurs, the team can fly out late on Wed no prob. If UCLA plays Rutgers on Thurs and if they fly on Wed, they have to fly early Wed so all of a sudden 2-day school weeks become the norm. If it were so simple as flight duration, the NFL would not put so much time into sleep studies and planning and they don't have work around classes.


Gonna be an absolute shit show.


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## dad4 (Jul 15, 2022)

Dubs said:


> Gonna be an absolute shit show.


Maybe.

But there is no real reason they need UCLA/USC to play every east coast team for every non revenue sport.

It's easy enough to have the minor sports split east/west while football follows the TV contracts.


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## crush (Jul 16, 2022)

Not so fast UCLA!!!  Looks like another back room deal? I think our Governor is 100% right about and they should have talked with BOR. I mean, this is a state school and this will have huge impact on the all students. 



"I read about it (is how I found out)," Newsom said in the interview. "No big deal. I’m the governor of the state of California. But maybe a bigger deal is that I’m the chair of the UC Board of Regents. I read about it. Is it a good idea? Did we have a chance to discuss the merits (of the decision)? I’m not aware anyone did. So it was done in isolation. It was done without regental oversight or support. It was done without any consideration to my knowledge."

He also expressed that in his mind, the decision lacked "decency" and that the impact will be felt throughout the state’s universities, not just the UC schools:


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 21, 2022)

crush said:


> Not so fast UCLA!!!  Looks like another back room deal? I think our Governor is 100% right about and they should have talked with BOR. I mean, this is a state school and this will have huge impact on the all students.
> 
> "I read about it (is how I found out)," Newsom said in the interview. "No big deal. I’m the governor of the state of California. But maybe a bigger deal is that I’m the chair of the UC Board of Regents. I read about it. Is it a good idea? Did we have a chance to discuss the merits (of the decision)? I’m not aware anyone did. So it was done in isolation. It was done without regental oversight or support. It was done without any consideration to my knowledge."
> 
> He also expressed that in his mind, the decision lacked "decency" and that the impact will be felt throughout the state’s universities, not just the UC schools:











						Calif. governor asks UCLA to explain Pac-12 exit
					

California governor Gavin Newsom said Wednesday he demands an explanation, on behalf of the public, for just how UCLA's move to the Big Ten will be beneficial for not just student-athletes but the history of the partnership with UC Berkeley.




					www.espn.com
				



"I inherited a deficit with UCLA athletics," Bruins AD Martin -  Maybe you stop paying coaches so much and shorten your football program with so many scholarships.   Glad to see that they are going to be held accountable if they make the move.


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## Mosafie (Aug 5, 2022)

It's all talk. UCLA is in a deep hole and they either go to the big10 or cut a bunch of sport while having the school and state start paying their debt. Everyone knows UCLA is gone. Currently UCLA athletics doesn't get any money from the state.

CAL is a shit show. Poorly managed and has zero potential as big football draw. They actually spent $300million when they barely make enough money to keep athletics afloat.

PAC12 schools are mad but if given the choice and an extra $60 million a year any of them would leave for the big10.


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## Zoro (Oct 28, 2022)

I thought CA prohibited spending state money in several of these states.


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