# Team Ranking Point...



## etc1217 (Aug 15, 2016)

What aren't the ranking points regulated? Most tournaments go with Got Soccer scoring but some do not, why is that?  So clubs that play those tournaments who aren't sanctioned by Got Soccer don't count towards anything except that the club/team played and maybe won but no one cares because they didn't get points on Got Soccer.  If everything is based on ranking and how teams are seeded against each other then the ranking points should be regulated so any tournament played counts.  

Where is the logic?  Can someone explain that to me because I don't get it..


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## espola (Aug 15, 2016)

etc1217 said:


> What aren't the ranking points regulated? Most tournaments go with Got Soccer scoring but some do not, why is that?  So clubs that play those tournaments who aren't sanctioned by Got Soccer don't count towards anything except that the club/team played and maybe won but no one cares because they didn't get points on Got Soccer.  If everything is based on ranking and how teams are seeded against each other then the ranking points should be regulated so any tournament played counts.
> 
> Where is the logic?  Can someone explain that to me because I don't get it..


Gotsoccer is its own little festering boil.  The easiest way to get ahead in GS points is to play in GS-managed tournaments.


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## outside! (Aug 15, 2016)

Regulated? Logic? Why are you using these words when talking about youth soccer rankings? Anything on GotSoccer or Top Drawer Soccer is biased towards the interests of those websites. For GotSoccer, it is all about rewarding teams that play in tournaments that use GotSoccer for standings/scores. Top Drawer Soccer and ECNL may as well be the same organization since non-ECNL teams/events/players rarely get any mention, and if they do it may be negative. The only website that is based on a sound, all inclusive model is:
http://youthsoccerrankings.us/
but he has taken down all the rankings until the age/year fiasco works it's way through the system and there are results for all the new teams/rosters to base the rankings on. He does have a link to the older rankings if you want to see how the teams used to stack up against one another.


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## B.B. (Aug 15, 2016)

Also, the GotSoccer rankings are even more screwed up b/c of the birth year change. Some teams have kept their points from their last year's team while other teams have opted to start fresh and didn't carry over any points from last year's team. The GotSoccer rankings are laughable.


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## espola (Aug 15, 2016)

outside! said:


> Regulated? Logic? Why are you using these words when talking about youth soccer rankings? Anything on GotSoccer or Top Drawer Soccer is biased towards the interests of those websites. For GotSoccer, it is all about rewarding teams that play in tournaments that use GotSoccer for standings/scores. Top Drawer Soccer and ECNL may as well be the same organization since non-ECNL teams/events/players rarely get any mention, and if they do it may be negative. The only website that is based on a sound, all inclusive model is:
> http://youthsoccerrankings.us/
> but he has taken down all the rankings until the age/year fiasco works it's way through the system and there are results for all the new teams/rosters to base the rankings on. He does have a link to the older rankings if you want to see how the teams used to stack up against one another.


What is youthsoccerrankings method?


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## timbuck (Aug 15, 2016)

Why do rankings matter for youth soccer?  Do kids really care that they are the 26th ranked team in Cal South on got soccer, but the 18th ranked in some other ranking system?
We can't even agree on the top 25 teams in college football every year and we use extensive algorithms and expert eyeballs.   Why do we expect youth soccer rankings to be accurate?
I guess marketing might be the only reason that these things matter. Or maybe for college recruiting purposes.


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## outside! (Aug 15, 2016)

espola said:


> What is youthsoccerrankings method?


HLMGTFY
http://youthsoccerrankings.us/index_2016.html, right side bar.


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## espola (Aug 15, 2016)

outside! said:


> HLMGTFY
> http://youthsoccerrankings.us/index_2016.html, right side bar.


Most of that is bragging about how much better they are than everyone else, without going much into how they do it.


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## TangoCity (Aug 15, 2016)

http://coachingkidssoccer.blogspot.com/

I compute the rankings for the age group and gender that my kid plays in (G04) using excel solver to compute the rankings.  They are getting more and more accurate imo as the sample size of games that teams play in increase.  I have to enter game scores in from all Cal South tournaments and eventually league play.  It would be nice if the data was collected in one place for all age groups and genders but it isn't.  If anyone wants to do the same rankings for their age group/gender PM me and I can give you my spreadsheet and you can copy they way it is done for your age group (you have to enter your own scores etc...).


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## espola (Aug 15, 2016)

TangoCity said:


> http://coachingkidssoccer.blogspot.com/
> 
> I compute the rankings for the age group and gender that my kid plays in (G04) using excel solver to compute the rankings.  They are getting more and more accurate imo as the sample size of games that teams play in increase.  I have to enter game scores in from all Cal South tournaments and eventually league play.  It would be nice if the data was collected in one place for all age groups and genders but it isn't.  If anyone wants to do the same rankings for their age group/gender PM me and I can give you my spreadsheet and you can copy they way it is done for your age group (you have to enter your own scores etc...).


Does your method include goal differential?  How do you handle games decided by kicks?


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## TangoCity (Aug 15, 2016)

espola said:


> Does your method include goal differential?  How do you handle games decided by kicks?


Yes, it includes goal differential.  Solver gives each team a "strength rating" based on scores of all games played.  It uses a best fit calculation to match up strength ratings and score differential of games and tries to minimize the error (squared) thus coming up with a best fit "strength rating" for each team.  As sample size increases - the rankings get more and more accurate.  For games decided by PKs, I enter them as a tie.  I think that is the best way to handle games decided by PKs.


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## etc1217 (Aug 15, 2016)

IMO, all the teams should have started from scratch.  I would say 90% of the teams this year are basically  new, there may be some with a 50% return from last year but for the most part all the teams are new. It's so stupid that some of these teams are riding on last year's coat tails.  If they are good, they will prove it on the pitch and get the points they actually deserve.  Yeah, it's youth soccer but you figured someone would have thought of that but guess not...


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## B.B. (Aug 15, 2016)

TangoCity said:


> http://coachingkidssoccer.blogspot.com/
> 
> I compute the rankings for the age group and gender that my kid plays in (G04) using excel solver to compute the rankings.  They are getting more and more accurate imo as the sample size of games that teams play in increase.  I have to enter game scores in from all Cal South tournaments and eventually league play.  It would be nice if the data was collected in one place for all age groups and genders but it isn't.  If anyone wants to do the same rankings for their age group/gender PM me and I can give you my spreadsheet and you can copy they way it is done for your age group (you have to enter your own scores etc...).


I nominate @Technician72 !


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## outside! (Aug 15, 2016)

espola said:


> Most of that is bragging about how much better they are than everyone else, without going much into how they do it.


Most of it is, but the part that is not explains how he does the rankings. It is solely based on game results. From the site:
"This site ranks 133,000 youth soccer teams in the USA based upon the results of 1.1 million games in the last 18 months. The results come directly from more than 350 different tournament or league websites and are the most accurate and complete set used by any ranking system. The rankings are based solely on team results. Every goal in every game is considered when calculating the ranking of each team. Each team is assigned a score that is measured in goals."


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## espola (Aug 15, 2016)

outside! said:


> Most of it is, but the part that is not explains how he does the rankings. It is solely based on game results. From the site:
> "This site ranks 133,000 youth soccer teams in the USA based upon the results of 1.1 million games in the last 18 months. The results come directly from more than 350 different tournament or league websites and are the most accurate and complete set used by any ranking system. The rankings are based solely on team results. Every goal in every game is considered when calculating the ranking of each team. Each team is assigned a score that is measured in goals."


That's a pretty thin explanation.


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## outside! (Aug 15, 2016)

espola said:


> That's a pretty thin explanation.


You can certainly contact the site with more questions.


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## BornToRun (Aug 15, 2016)

TangoCity said:


> Yes, it includes goal differential.  Solver gives each team a "strength rating" based on scores of all games played.  It uses a best fit calculation to match up strength ratings and score differential of games and tries to minimize the error (squared) thus coming up with a best fit "strength rating" for each team.  As sample size increases - the rankings get more and more accurate.  For games decided by PKs, I enter them as a tie.  I think that is the best way to handle games decided by PKs.


Does it include use of guests or not ?


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## GunninGopher (Aug 15, 2016)

Got Soccer shouldn't even call it's "number" a rank. I'd call it a points standing.

Like others have said, many teams have carried points over from prior years, even though most teams are a shell of the former team. My daughter's is one such team, that only last weekend played their first Got Soccer tournament this season, so they had no points and everyone assumed they were a 'new team'. The older team in the "split" took the Got Soccer standings and the team behind theirs last year took the younger's points. They were left in the middle. Nobody associated with the team, including myself, even cares.

It will be about a year before Got Soccer, and any other resource that is using results prior to and including end of season tournaments, like State/National Cup, reflect the state of the current teams.


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## wildcat66 (Aug 15, 2016)

I have to ask this because unlike many of the soccer parents I have not "drank the koolaid."  So in the big scheme of things what does this ranking really do for a player?  My DD manager  tells all the parents how we have to play only tournament which will increase our rankings so that college coaches will see our daughters and they will all get full ride division one scholarships.....OK, an exaggeration, but not by much....so if a girl is not on a team that plays these type of "rank creating" tournaments are they  screwing themselves for college play?


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## CaliKlines (Aug 15, 2016)

wildcat66 said:


> I have to ask this because unlike many of the soccer parents I have not "drank the koolaid."  So in the big scheme of things what does this ranking really do for a player?  My DD manager  tells all the parents how we have to play only tournament which will increase our rankings so that college coaches will see our daughters and they will all get full ride division one scholarships.....OK, an exaggeration, but not by much....so if a girl is not on a team that plays these type of "rank creating" tournaments are they  screwing themselves for college play?


No, because rankings don't make the team. College coaches know which teams get the results, and which ones don't, just as they quickly learn who the talented players are on those teams. Find a club environment that is comfortable for her and helps her overall development...then enter and win state/national cup...go to, and win Region IV, and hopefully make it to the USYS Nationals and you will see that the GotSoccer rankings are really inconsequential and insignificant.

On the other hand, youthsoccerrankings.com is a resource to evaluate teams from other regions that might be unfamiliar to you. It is a decent way to compare team levels from region to region....but if one team is ranked 73, and the other is ranked 76, then it is a stretch to say one is better than the other.


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## Truth (Aug 15, 2016)

GotSoccer rankings are a joke. My son's team would regularly smash nationally ranked teams from out of state that play 20 tournaments a year. College coaches don't care. Neither should you. But Americans are obsessed about creating ranking lists.


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## madcow (Aug 15, 2016)

CaliKlines said:


> No, because rankings don't make the team. College coaches know which teams get the results, and which ones don't, just as they quickly learn who the talented players are on those teams. Find a club environment that is comfortable for her and helps her overall development...then enter and win state/national cup...go to, and win Region IV, and hopefully make it to the USYS Nationals and you will see that the GotSoccer rankings are really inconsequential and insignificant.
> 
> On the other hand, youthsoccerrankings.com is a resource to evaluate teams from other regions that might be unfamiliar to you. It is a decent way to compare team levels from region to region....but if one team is ranked 73, and the other is ranked 76, then it is a stretch to say one is better than the other.


I was actually agreeing with everything you said, until you went all USYSA muppet again. But, point taken and I agree


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## outside! (Aug 15, 2016)

For the player that wants to play in college, it all comes down to exposure to college coaches. In the past, the best route for girls was to play ECNL, and the second best way was to play USYS National League. In the future, the ranking for exposure to college coaches will probably be GDA, ECNL and the USYS National League. For the player that does not have any of those options (or does), ID camps can be a good avenue.

Rankings only matter for getting a team into higher level tournaments/brackets. As many have said the rankings have problems, but they can serve a purpose.


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## madcow (Aug 15, 2016)

wildcat66 said:


> I have to ask this because unlike many of the soccer parents I have not "drank the koolaid."  So in the big scheme of things what does this ranking really do for a player?  My DD manager  tells all the parents how we have to play only tournament which will increase our rankings so that college coaches will see our daughters and they will all get full ride division one scholarships.....OK, an exaggeration, but not by much....so if a girl is not on a team that plays these type of "rank creating" tournaments are they  screwing themselves for college play?


Got soccer is just a tournament scoring website. They award points to teams that play in tournaments that use their software. Tournaments can move up in ranking by having higher ranked teams play in their tournament and teams can move up by playing in and winning GS tournaments. The catch is, the more points you earn, the harder it is to get more points, so you have to play in and win more tournaments next year than you did this year, just to hold your place. Rinse and repeat. The only advantage (if there is one???) is it is hard for tournament directors to accept and properly seed teams in a bracket, especially out of state teams. So, using GS rankings to seed teams helps. I know that is a weak excuse, but it is one nonetheless 

Also, tournament's rankings go up with the higher ranked teams playing in the top flight, so you will see teams get top flight placement even though they are clearly not as good as someone else who is ranked lower.

But, like has been said earlier. Win and you're in. If you are good, you will get into the big tournaments. And if your players are good, college coaches will come to watch, even if they aren't on a USYSA National championship team...


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## SOCCERMINION (Aug 15, 2016)

IMHO, I think the Youth Soccer Ranking site is great.  http://youthsoccerrankings.us/index_2016.html. For many of us (without Tech Spec Posts) its the only way we would have any idea of the caliber of team our kids would be facing on big tournamant weekends. Its a great source for information on past game results that anyone can look up to see how teams have matched up in the past. Yeah I look at the rankings, but mostly I use it to look at the previous matchs and scores of the teams to get a good idea of who my DD will be up against. GS has its flaws but Thank God for these sites. they put all the info in one place and make it easy for you.


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## GunninGopher (Aug 15, 2016)

SOCCERMINION said:


> Yeah I look at the rankings, but mostly I use it to look at the previous matchs and scores of the teams to get a good idea of who my DD will be up against. GS has its flaws but Thank God for these sites. they put all the info in one place and make it easy for you.


Same here. I like to be able to try to plan a weekend so if nothing else, the ranking sites bring all the matches up at once. YSR was great because it was (and hopefully will be again) pretty good about predicting outcomes, as much as you can predict anything with pre-teen girls (in my case).


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## MakeAPlay (Aug 21, 2016)

CaliKlines said:


> No, because rankings don't make the team. College coaches know which teams get the results, and which ones don't, just as they quickly learn who the talented players are on those teams. Find a club environment that is comfortable for her and helps her overall development...then enter and win state/national cup...go to, and win Region IV, and hopefully make it to the USYS Nationals and you will see that the GotSoccer rankings are really inconsequential and insignificant.
> 
> On the other hand, youthsoccerrankings.com is a resource to evaluate teams from other regions that might be unfamiliar to you. It is a decent way to compare team levels from region to region....but if one team is ranked 73, and the other is ranked 76, then it is a stretch to say one is better than the other.


Coaches don't care about tournament titles other than the ODP national championship or La Manga/Gradisca etc.  I don't ever remember them asking about a tournament.  However, I do remember them raving about them seeing her kill it at ODP regionals or ECNL nationals.  

Your player is committed Cali give them the real story not the Legends commercial.

I will even give you some advice to help yours at NC State.  Get her working on her fitness and strength if she wants to play as a freshman.  It worked pretty well for mine.


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## clueless parent (Aug 22, 2016)

Got Soccer point system favors teams that compete successfully in Got Soccer tournaments.  It appears to my inexperienced eye that Got Soccer rankings have an impact on Got Soccer Tournament bracketing.  The teams with the higher Got Soccer points are admitted to exclusive tournaments and/or are fast tracked in tournament seeding.  Tournament directors can justify acceptance and seeding via Got Soccer points.  Obviously, this is not an ideal situation.  One cannot go wrong collecting Got Soccer points playing Got Soccer tournaments.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 23, 2016)

On the flip side to that is that their are whole spring leagues not sanctioned under gotsoccer. And many tournaments too, so sometimes a team comes into a tournament placed into the lowest bracket bc they have minimal gotsoccer points and cleans up the competition. Then people call foul bc they shouldn't have been placed in that bracket...no win situation.


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## Lorrenna Bobbitt (Aug 23, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> I will even give you some advice to help yours at NC State.  Get her working on her fitness and strength if she wants to play as a freshman.  It worked pretty well for mine.


Dumb advice.  I have not touched a soccer ball since graduating college 4 years ago and I could start at NC State as a Freshman.


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## CaliKlines (Aug 23, 2016)

Lorrenna Bobbitt said:


> Dumb advice.  I have not touched a soccer ball since graduating college 4 years ago and I could start at NC State as a Freshman.


I don't care to get drawn into your love affair with MAP, but it is highly doubtful you could get in thru the gate, even with a ticket.


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## Lorrenna Bobbitt (Aug 23, 2016)

CaliKlines said:


> I don't care to get drawn into your love affair with MAP, but it is highly doubtful you could get in thru the gate, even with a ticket.


Are you sure?  I scored 2 against NC state in 2012.


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## GKDad65 (Aug 23, 2016)

Youth soccer ranking is a waste of time.


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## MakeAPlay (Aug 23, 2016)

Lorrenna Bobbitt said:


> Dumb advice.  I have not touched a soccer ball since graduating college 4 years ago and I could start at NC State as a Freshman.


Stop lying.  You are old and suck at soccer.


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## MakeAPlay (Aug 23, 2016)

Lorrenna Bobbitt said:


> Are you sure?  I scored 2 against NC state in 2012.


You are such a liar sweetsplat.


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## CaliKlines (Aug 23, 2016)

CaliKlines said:


> I don't care to get drawn into your love affair with MAP, but it is highly doubtful you could get in thru the gate, even with a ticket.





Lorrenna Bobbitt said:


> Are you sure?


Yes, I am absolutely sure and positive.


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