# Which clubs took PPE?



## watfly (Jul 7, 2020)

I tried to identify all the clubs in SoCal that took PPE.  I only searched on "soccer" so if they don't have soccer in their name, I didn't pick it up.

$350,000-$1,000,000:
Albion 
Legends
Cal South

$150,000-$350,000:
SD Surf
Blues
San Diego Loyal (USL)

Other non-Socal Notables
$350,000-$1,000,000:
De Anza Force (there were a lot of teams in Nor Cal that took PPE)

$150,000-$350,000:
Cal North
Arizona Arsenal
Del Sol


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## watfly (Jul 7, 2020)

watfly said:


> I tried to identify all the clubs in SoCal that took PPE.  I only searched on "soccer" so if they don't have soccer in their name, I didn't pick it up.
> 
> $350,000-$1,000,000:
> Albion
> ...


Searched football and futbol.

$150,000-$350,000:
LA Premier
Santa Monica United (aka SM Surf)


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## espola (Jul 7, 2020)

PPE or PPP?


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## watfly (Jul 7, 2020)

espola said:


> PPE or PPP?


Oops, PPP.


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## lafalafa (Jul 7, 2020)

So to summarize all of us taxpayers are paying for coaches, admins, docs to be unemployed or employed twice over but at the same time clubs want to collect fees from parents. 

All this under the guise of non-profits,.makes sense now since loans are forgiven  but somebody has to pay to keep the gig going. Guess we're all fitting the bill one way or the other, choice or not.


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## watfly (Jul 7, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> So to summarize all of us taxpayers are paying for coaches, admins, docs to be unemployed or employed twice over but at the same time clubs want to collect fees from parents.
> 
> All this under the guise of non-profits,.makes sense now since loans are forgiven  but somebody has to pay to keep the gig going. Guess we're all fitting the bill one way or the other, choice or not.


Whether these clubs have taken advantage of the PPP program, I can't say.  I do find it curious that clubs typically don't provide a whole lot of services during spring although I know this is when clubs like to lockdown their deposits for the fall season.

The PPP program has been subject to abuse by organizations that don't need the money.  I know companies that have received windfalls from PPP.  Unfortunately, it was rolled out too quickly and like many government programs lacks accountability.  I'm not holding my breath but the program needs to go back and compare how far off of normal these companies were compared to funds received.  They should be required to repay the difference either immediately or convert to a high interest loan.


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## Alika M (Jul 7, 2020)

Its still a loan they have to pay back... its not a grant.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 7, 2020)

Alika M said:


> Its still a loan they have to pay back... its not a grant.


My understanding of this program is they don't have to pay anything back if those money being used on coaches salaries. They do have to pay back if money will be used otherwise. I'm not saying it's true, but this is how I understood it is.


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## watfly (Jul 7, 2020)

Alika M said:


> Its still a loan they have to pay back... its not a grant.


It's forgiven if you can show at least 60% went to payroll related and the remainder went to other qualified costs (and maintained employment).  Since money is fungible you could easily show that PPP covered those expenses even though your regular sources of income could have covered those costs.  Technically you had to have a need for it, and while there could be penalties, the definition of "need" is very vague in the legislation.  I'm not aware of anyone who took PPP that thinks it will not be forgiven.


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## espola (Jul 7, 2020)

watfly said:


> It's forgiven if you can show at least 60% went to payroll related and the remainder went to other qualified costs (and maintained employment).  Since money is fungible you could easily show that PPP covered those expenses even though your regular sources of income could have covered those costs.  Technically you had to have a need for it, and while there could be penalties, the definition of "need" is very vague in the legislation.  I'm not aware of anyone who took PPP that thinks it will not be forgiven.


Let me guess - you are neither an accountant nor a lawyer.


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## Overlap (Jul 7, 2020)

Alika M said:


> Its still a loan they have to pay back... its not a grant.


No, it's forgiven if the funds go toward payroll and a few other expenses, most CPA's can complete the paperwork and it gets done faster plus, they can fill out the paperwork for forgiveness when the time is due although, not sure how 501 c 3's can get it if they don't pay taxes


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## whatithink (Jul 7, 2020)

watfly said:


> $150,000-$350,000:
> Arizona Arsenal
> Del Sol


I counted 5 in AZ. The non profit names and the club names are not necessarily the same. Strangely, one club looks like it double dipped under 2 non profits - legit I guess.

Thing with AZ is that all the tournaments were done for the 2019-20 season, certainly for any of the 4 clubs. Dues run through March so that was all collected. Registration fees are in May, and were asked for and collected. New season dues start Jul-Aug. So in short, none of these clubs would have been out any money that I can see. In fact, they would have saved money as they didn't have to pay for fields.

I know of companies that definitely needed the PPP and have no problem with that, but still, it strikes me that this was open to abuse and was no doubt abused and we the taxpayers get to pay for it. I'm obviously not suggesting any of the 4 clubs abused it ... I would never do that.

And I doubt any of it will be repaid.


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## whatithink (Jul 7, 2020)

Overlap said:


> No, it's forgiven if the funds go toward payroll and a few other expenses, most CPA's can complete the paperwork and it gets done faster plus, they can fill out the paperwork for forgiveness when the time is due although, not sure how 501 c 3's can get it if they don't pay taxes


Apparently there was no barrier for non-profits. Just under 42,500 were paid totaling somewhere in the range of $21.4B to $51.2B.


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## zags77 (Jul 7, 2020)

Key piece to the PPP loan was how the coaches are paid in specific clubs.  In order to apply for a PPP loan the coaches needed to be paid as W2 employees vs. 1099 independent contractors.  Many clubs in CA did not adhere and are still paying coaches as 1099 employees.  Those clubs did not qualify for PPP funds because of that.  The law changed in 2020 under the AB5 law and all clubs should be paying coaches as W2 employees in order to be compliant to the new law.

_The new law takes effect Jan. 1, 2020, and could see a mixed bag of companies complying and some that refuse.  Under the new law, California workers could generally be considered independent contractors only if the work they do is outside the usual course of a company’s business. Conversely, workers must be employees not contractors if either a company exerts control over how they perform their tasks, or if their work is part of a company’s regular business. That latter rule is key. Other states could well follow California’s lead, which could mean more tax money flowing._


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## Ellejustus (Jul 7, 2020)

zags77 said:


> Key piece to the PPP loan was how the coaches are paid in specific clubs.  In order to apply for a PPP loan the coaches needed to be paid as W2 employees vs. 1099 independent contractors.  Many clubs in CA did not adhere and are still paying coaches as 1099 employees.  Those clubs did not qualify for PPP funds because of that.  The law changed in 2020 under the AB5 law and all clubs should be paying coaches as W2 employees in order to be compliant to the new law.
> 
> _The new law takes effect Jan. 1, 2020, and could see a mixed bag of companies complying and some that refuse.  Under the new law, California workers could generally be considered independent contractors only if the work they do is outside the usual course of a company’s business. Conversely, workers must be employees not contractors if either a company exerts control over how they perform their tasks, or if their work is part of a company’s regular business. That latter rule is key. Other states could well follow California’s lead, which could mean more tax money flowing._


If you where the uniform, have email and controlled by the Doc, you are employee.  I was told it's 100% on the employer to do things right.


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## watfly (Jul 7, 2020)

In the spirit of full disclosure there could have been other teams that took PPP money that are under the $150,000 threshold that doesn't require the publishing of the entity name.


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## oh canada (Jul 7, 2020)

Great info...so if your kids play and you pay to one of these clubs, they will likely be making more profit this year because of Covid.  Albion and Legends $350K - $1MM ?  That's a windfall.  And it won't be paid back.  Don't feel sorry for them if their summer tournament gets cancelled.  The Covid "tournament" made them 5x as much.


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## pokergod (Jul 7, 2020)

Alika M said:


> Its still a loan they have to pay back... its not a grant.


that is not true.  follow the terms and loan is forgiven.


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## Chalklines (Jul 7, 2020)

Someone post a link


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## whatithink (Jul 7, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> Someone post a link








						Box
					






					sba.app.box.com


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## whatithink (Jul 7, 2020)

Alika M said:


> Its still a loan they have to pay back... its not a grant.





			https://www.sba.gov/document/support--ppp-interim-final-rule-requirements-loan-forgiveness


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## Spfister (Jul 12, 2020)

espola said:


> Let me guess - you are neither an accountant nor a lawyer.


Well I’m a CPA and I agree with everything he said.  I know of no business that took the loan without the intent of it being forgiven


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## Mosafie (Jul 12, 2020)

My son's club didnt collect due since the pandemic started and we went into lockdown.

Maybe the question should be which clubs charged people playey AND took PPP. 

If a club didnt charge dues, cancelled tournament, etc, then they obviously qualify for PPP. 

Churches are suppose to be non profit too and they have taken billions  PPP.


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Jul 13, 2020)

whatithink said:


> Box
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can anyone share the actual graph ? Having trouble downloading it trying to share this info with another group on fb


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## whatithink (Jul 13, 2020)

Futbol2dmaxxx said:


> Can anyone share the actual graph ? Having trouble downloading it trying to share this info with another group on fb


Its a file, not a graph


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## jpeter (Jul 13, 2020)




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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Jul 13, 2020)

someone posted a chart with clubs and ppps they received anyone still have it around


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## whatithink (Jul 13, 2020)

Futbol2dmaxxx said:


> someone posted a chart with clubs and ppps they received anyone still have it around


This thread





__





						Club Cost - Refunds
					

;) Sunil Illuminati; another one hiding behind a pseudonym.  If you bothered to read my reply to the OP, I made it clear that we had pushed back payment dues from May to August and that they will be pushed back again or canceled completely IF we don’t have a fall season.  Given your expert...



					www.socalsoccer.com


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## Woobie06 (Jul 13, 2020)

When the applications went in Late March/Early April no applicant knew what would happen.  If I were a club admin/BOD Member I would have applied too.  Our family business’ as well as many others we know applied and received funds.  It’s smart business.  Just because they are non-profits does not mean they are not in the business of operating.  Now, with the new shutdown, LA Unified and the Fall Announcement, and all the unknowns...some are glad they did take it and they should not feel guilty about it.  If they applied to a program in good faith, with the correct requirements, and were awarded...so be it.  The funds were to weather the storm and the storm is still very active.  Many of these organizations now have capital to keep things going when the bumps occur.  Many did not have deep pockets.  Don’t be too quick to hate or judge. A lot of these organizations are keeping people employed and paid.


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Jul 15, 2020)

So I posted  this(actual chart that someone put on this forum on what clubs receives a PPP) on Facebook (soccer board )man people were mad  reporting my post I think I had to repost it twice until it was removed again.  People were being tagged n saying they didn’t receive nothing or not the amount  too funny


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## Mic Nificent (Jul 16, 2020)

Even worse. My kid is at one of those clubs that took the PPP loan and those mofos are still trying to collect full registration fees and tournament fees. Not even giving parents a break pushing the fees off for a few more months knowing some people have been directly affected with lost/reduced wages. On top of that they are promoting a tournament knowing damn well it’s not going to happen and keeping 10% or $75 per team whether it happens or not. Bout to call Turko files lol


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Jul 17, 2020)

Mic Nificent said:


> Even worse. My kid is at one of those clubs that took the PPP loan and those mofos are still trying to collect full registration fees and tournament fees. Not even giving parents a break pushing the fees off for a few more months knowing some people have been directly affected with lost/reduced wages. On top of that they are promoting a tournament knowing damn well it’s not going to happen and keeping 10% or $75 per team whether it happens or not. Bout to call Turko files lol


Name the club ??? They aren’t keeping  it’s the tournament. they keep it knowing damm well they can’t ,the club doesn’t pull out the tournament @ the end of the day the tournament cancel it. so they shouldn’t  be allowed to keep any %.
My sons Team is asking tournament fee this the last time I paid for one we know any tournaments won’t happen pluss they still owe me money from a previous tournament .


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## oh canada (Jul 17, 2020)

Futbol2dmaxxx said:


> Name the club ??? They aren’t keeping  it’s the tournament. they keep it knowing damm well they can’t ,the club doesn’t pull out the tournament @ the end of the day the tournament cancel it. so they shouldn’t  be allowed to keep any %.
> My sons Team is asking tournament fee this the last time I paid for one we know any tournaments won’t happen pluss they still owe me money from a previous tournament .


Either Surf or Albion...or both.  Keeping a 10% "process fee" is shameful under the circumstances.


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