# West Coast/Surf OC



## SimpleSoccer (Oct 31, 2017)

Really surprised that there hasn’t been any chatter about West Coast FC becoming Surf OC..........


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 31, 2017)

SimpleSoccer said:


> Really surprised that there hasn’t been any chatter about West Coast FC becoming Surf OC..........


Wow! I am surprised by this! Has this been posted elsewhere?


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## Eagle33 (Oct 31, 2017)

Can you only imagine how many car stickers will have to be changed?


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 31, 2017)

If this is true how will this affect WC DA status? Can one club hold two cards? Which would hold true for ECNL.


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## timbuck (Oct 31, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> If this is true how will this affect WC DA status? Can one club hold two cards? Which would hold true for ECNL.


Doesnt LA Galaxy and LA Galaxy SD both have DA?


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## BJ18 (Oct 31, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> If this is true how will this affect WC DA status? Can one club hold two cards? Which would hold true for ECNL.


It shouldn't affect it at all.  And yes, Murrieta SURF exists already and has U12 DA status on the Boys side.


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## growingpains (Oct 31, 2017)

While I think Surf is a great organization, it's sad to see the brand being diluted like this - soon it won't mean anything and they're just going to have their own league where their teams just play each other. Did anyone see the full page ad they put out in the soccer.com catalog asking if teams wanted to join the franchise?


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## Fact (Oct 31, 2017)

It is sad to see the era of mega clubs.  IMO West Coast has some of the best coaches around.  I understand why other clubs have become franchises-economies of scale, name brand etc. but not sure what West Coast gets out of this.  With so many A licenses and contacts I would believe that they could have been just as successful at franchising.

I wonder if this will be set up as one of the standard Surf franchises or whether they hope to poach some coaches?  West  Coast has had a very stable coach base unlike Surf the past few years and could gain a lot having some coaches with great contacts at the Polo Fields.


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## timbuck (Oct 31, 2017)

I dont know the logistics -  But why can't clubs wait until the season is over to make these announcements?


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## JackZ (Oct 31, 2017)

*You get a Surf and you get Surf and you get a Surf! Everybody gets a Surf!!! *


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Oct 31, 2017)

JackZ said:


> *You get a Surf and you get Surf and you get a Surf! Everybody gets a Surf!!! *
> View attachment 1612


Didn't you miss one?  I thought there was a Surf club in San Diego.  Must have been confused.


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## AZsoccerDad (Oct 31, 2017)

landlocked AZ won't get a surf....Charlie don't surf


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 31, 2017)

SimpleSoccer said:


> Really surprised that there hasn’t been any chatter about West Coast FC becoming Surf OC..........


McDonald's of Youth Soccer


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## MWN (Oct 31, 2017)

AZsoccerDad said:


> landlocked AZ won't get a surf....Charlie don't surf


https://www.travelingmom.com/family-vacation-destinations/southwest-us-destinations/where-to-surf-in-arizona/


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 31, 2017)

AZsoccerDad said:


> landlocked AZ won't get a surf....Charlie don't surf


If "Rick Cane" can make it at North Shore...any kid in AZ can aspire to kick a ball with a Surf Jersey on their back


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## Tiki_Taka (Oct 31, 2017)

Not_that_Serious said:


> If "Rick Cane" can make it at North Shore...any kid in AZ can aspire to kick a ball with a Surf Jersey on their back


Ha!  I love that movie.  I put Gleaming the Cube with Christian Slater in the same category.  Great movies for "wannabes" and "posers".


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## Monkey (Oct 31, 2017)

SimpleSoccer said:


> Really surprised that there hasn’t been any chatter about West Coast FC becoming Surf OC..........


Is there an official announcement somewhere?


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 31, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Doesnt LA Galaxy and LA Galaxy SD both have DA?


Let me rephrase so as to not confuse. I was thinking ahead. If WC was given DA status as WC will that change if they now become an affiliate. Where as LAGSD and LAGSB where given DA status as two separate affiliates. If that makes sense at all.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 31, 2017)

BJ18 said:


> It shouldn't affect it at all.  And yes, Murrieta SURF exists already and has U12 DA status on the Boys side.


I thought WC had issue with DA. I know many players in 05 got displaced from flights like dominoes due to the problem.  id hope just changing a jersey wouldnt circumvent unfixed issues


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## timbuck (Oct 31, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Let me rephrase so as to not confuse. I was thinking ahead. If WC was given DA status as WC will that change if they now become an affiliate. Where as the LAGSD and LAGSB where given DA status as to separate affiliates. If that makes sense at all.


Your question makes sense.  All of the mergers/affiliations don't make sense.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 31, 2017)

Tiki_Taka said:


> Ha!  I love that movie.  I put Gleaming the Cube with Christian Slater in the same category.  Great movies for "wannabes" and "posers".


im glad someone got the reference. Id also add RAD, Thrashin and Hot Dog


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 31, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Your question makes sense.  All of the mergers/affiliations don't make sense.


Two much merging...ugh.


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## timbuck (Oct 31, 2017)

Not_that_Serious said:


> im glad someone got the reference. Id also add RAD, Thrashin and Hot Dog


 Now you are talking my language.  Watched Rad and Thrashin this summer. Tried to make the kids watch with me.  They weren't interested.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 31, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Now you are talking my language.  Watched Rad and Thrashin this summer. Tried to make the kids watch with me.  They weren't interested.


Haha. Can only lead them to water...

Id keep them away from Hot Dog


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## Desert Hound (Oct 31, 2017)

What exactly is WC getting other than a new logo? What are they giving up...other than their old logo?


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## Kicker4Life (Oct 31, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Let me rephrase so as to not confuse. I was thinking ahead. If WC was given DA status as WC will that change if they now become an affiliate. Where as LAGSD and LAGSB where given DA status as two separate affiliates. If that makes sense at all.


Is it Galaxy SB or LA Galaxy that has DA?


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 31, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Two much merging...ugh.


Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money. A local insurance salesman (yep, not the ethical kind) changes club names every year. This Year? Surf. Must get a bigger % for the name. The package must come with banners, canopies and everything you need to look legit. Some of these Surf names sound like the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim of Orange County California


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## jdiaz (Oct 31, 2017)

Very sad day.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Oct 31, 2017)

Kicker4Life said:


> Is it Galaxy SB or LA Galaxy that has DA?


Is LA Galaxy the only DA that has coaches also coaching at another club?


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## timbuck (Oct 31, 2017)

Who wants to start up a new club with me?
WestCoastEclipseAthleticFC of Southern California located In Orange County but also serving LA, Riverside and San Diego Counties with fields in Norco, Oceanside and Temecula.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 31, 2017)

Kicker4Life said:


> Is it Galaxy SB or LA Galaxy that has DA?


Pow! Nice Shot. Fingers of habit.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 31, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Who wants to start up a new club with me?
> WestCoastEclipseAthleticFC of Southern California located In Orange County but also serving LA, Riverside and San Diego Counties with fields in Norco, Oceanside and Temecula.


West Coast Real Barcelona of America (with latin pronunciation) and Im In for predominantly Latino areas - but only if i get a non-compete clause


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 31, 2017)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> Is LA Galaxy the only DA that has coaches also coaching at another club?


Not responding for K4L but since I opened the door then no. Several coaches with LAGSB have and are coaching on the boys DA LAG side. Just like on the girls.


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## meatsweats (Oct 31, 2017)

SimpleSoccer said:


> Really surprised that there hasn’t been any chatter about West Coast FC becoming Surf OC..........


Well, I guess that explains why GC was at the Surf Gala a few weeks ago.


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## younothat (Oct 31, 2017)

and the plot thickens....

West Coast was once one of the original affiliates or Alliances of LA Galaxy.....going by LA Galaxy South (for top teams wearing the LA galaxy patch  w/ west coast uniforms)  but that didn't last but one season or so.

Last year another club goes from one franchise (FC Blades dba...Slammers Irvine)  to another and becomes a LA Galaxy alliance club and changes names to  LA Galaxy OC

West Coast becomes a franchise/affiliate of Surf....going by Surf OC

What's next?   LA Futbol Club of OC...wait we already have that... LAFC Slammers..at least for Girls DA


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## mirage (Oct 31, 2017)

So is this official and a done deal?

If so, is it a franchise (e.g., LAG Allover) or merger?  If its a franchise, WCFC will keep its WCDA, ECNL and DA as is but if its a merger, who knows.  Even LAG DA for 16+ is only at LAG.  Girls side may differ. 

Also AZsoccerdad saying something about there's no surf (desert) at AZ, there is/was Utah Surf SC.... No beach there either except for a short time at the Salt Lake!


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## mirage (Oct 31, 2017)

With all these franchise fees, at least Surf is making tenant improvements to the access roads at the Polo fields.  I guess its something.


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## MASA3 (Oct 31, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Let me rephrase so as to not confuse. I was thinking ahead. If WC was given DA status as WC will that change if they now become an affiliate. Where as LAGSD and LAGSB where given DA status as two separate affiliates. If that makes sense at all.


Great question and one we asked.. We were told it won't effect our DA status but not sure of much else. We are supposed to have more information in 3-4 weeks.


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## timbuck (Oct 31, 2017)

mirage said:


> With all these franchise fees, at least Surf is making tenant improvements to the access roads at the Polo fields.  I guess its something.


My understanding of affiliate programs is that there isn't so much a franchise fee.  But you have order uniforms from their supplier and they get a cut of those sales.


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## GKDad65 (Nov 1, 2017)

mirage said:


> With all these franchise fees, at least Surf is making tenant improvements to the access roads at the Polo fields.  I guess its something.


Don't believe it, nothing has improved.
Surf has just become the HCA (Hospital Corp of America 70's-80's) of youth soccer.
Big expansion with no quality to back it up.


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## Surf Zombie (Nov 1, 2017)

Not_that_Serious said:


> If "Rick Cane" can make it at North Shore...any kid in AZ can aspire to kick a ball with a Surf Jersey on their back


I can do Rick Kane quotes all day:

“When the waves break here don’t be there, or you gonna get drilled.”


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## MASA3 (Nov 1, 2017)

Surf Zombie said:


> I can do Rick Kane quotes all day:
> 
> “When the waves break here don’t be there, or you gonna get drilled.”


Damn bruh, at least attribute the quote to the correct person, that was Turtle that said that


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## transplant (Nov 1, 2017)

Wait - aren't Anaheim and San Clemente in the OC? Will Anaheim Surf & San Clemente Surf become part of OC Surf - or will they just let confusion reign?


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## Goforgoal (Nov 1, 2017)

transplant said:


> Wait - aren't Anaheim and San Clemente in the OC? Will Anaheim Surf & San Clemente Surf become part of OC Surf - or will they just let confusion reign?


My money is on confusion.


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## Gameon1 (Nov 1, 2017)

Goforgoal said:


> My money is on confusion.


Who is the big winner?
Surf Cup Sports (the group that does all the Surf tournaments and makes all the money)
Now they get all the WC teams at Surf tournaments plus they will do WC tournaments.


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## soccerchaffeur (Nov 1, 2017)

transplant said:


> Wait - aren't Anaheim and San Clemente in the OC? Will Anaheim Surf & San Clemente Surf become part of OC Surf - or will they just let confusion reign?


and don't forget Anaheim Surf-Ladera Ranch.  Whatever that is?


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## JackZ (Nov 1, 2017)

Gameon1 said:


> Who is the big winner?
> Surf Cup Sports (the group that does all the Surf tournaments and makes all the money)
> Now they get all the WC teams at Surf tournaments plus they will do WC tournaments.


Yep. One pretty big OC tournament, held each August.


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## growingpains (Nov 1, 2017)

West Coast was already doing all the Surf tournaments. Also, I thought Surf Cup Sports was actually set up to benefit the club - its what helps fund the fields and coaches, etc... so ultimately the big winner is the original Surf San Diego club and players... 

Question is can all the affiliate clubs live up to the Surf brand and can SD Surf continue to develop top level teams in spite of their big revenue push by creating more 2nd and 3rd teams...


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## timbuck (Nov 1, 2017)

transplant said:


> Wait - aren't Anaheim and San Clemente in the OC? Will Anaheim Surf & San Clemente Surf become part of OC Surf - or will they just let confusion reign?


Strikers merged with Eclipse to form OC Strikers.  But you still had MV Strikers, Strikers North and Irvine Strikers.  All in OC.


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## Gameon1 (Nov 1, 2017)

growingpains said:


> West Coast was already doing all the Surf tournaments. Also, I thought Surf Cup Sports was actually set up to benefit the club - its what helps fund the fields and coaches, etc... so ultimately the big winner is the original Surf San Diego club and players...
> 
> Question is can all the affiliate clubs live up to the Surf brand and can SD Surf continue to develop top level teams in spite of their big revenue push by creating more 2nd and 3rd teams...


1) WC did not play last year for Surf Thanksgiving.
2) Surf has always had 2nd and 3rd teams
3) every other club puts their own tournaments on and keeps the money


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## espola (Nov 1, 2017)

growingpains said:


> West Coast was already doing all the Surf tournaments. Also, I thought Surf Cup Sports was actually set up to benefit the club - its what helps fund the fields and coaches, etc... so ultimately the big winner is the original Surf San Diego club and players...
> 
> Question is can all the affiliate clubs live up to the Surf brand and can SD Surf continue to develop top level teams in spite of their big revenue push by creating more 2nd and 3rd teams...


Someone who wants to win a Pulitzer Prize could write a book on the history of the various Surf enterprises over the years.  For example, San Diego Surf Cup Inc. is apparently out of business, as shown by the change from its 2013 IRS990 to that of 2015.

https://pp-990.s3.amazonaws.com/2014_10_EO/33-0617562_990_201402.pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAI7C6X5GT42DHYZIA/20171102/us-east-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20171102T021445Z&X-Amz-Expires=1800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=8267e33f2f93ac05fdfe1d276e95399f473db70445c784b59616ac1534c06fed

https://pp-990.s3.amazonaws.com/2017_01_EO/33-0617562_990_201602.pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAI7C6X5GT42DHYZIA/20171102/us-east-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20171102T021247Z&X-Amz-Expires=1800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=6e952948097aef35a0f114f9afbba4930eab366d9ea054c973d7888493c88ada

And yet the tournaments continue and the club continues to grow (or at least the number of franchises grows).


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## Multi Sport (Nov 1, 2017)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Haha. Can only lead them to water...
> 
> Id keep them away from Hot Dog


Read an article about Hot Dog and how the movie was made. If you liked the movie the article was great..


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## nosubs (Nov 2, 2017)

MASA3 said:


> Damn bruh, at least attribute the quote to the correct person, that was Turtle that said that


"No one listens to Turtle"


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## LASTMAN14 (Nov 2, 2017)

nosubs said:


> "No one listens to Turtle"


My favorite line.


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## Zerodenero (Nov 2, 2017)

nosubs said:


> "No one listens to Turtle"


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## Not_that_Serious (Nov 2, 2017)

soccerchaffeur said:


> and don't forget Anaheim Surf-Ladera Ranch.  Whatever that is?


haha that place that changes jersey's every year? dude in charge is a used cars salesman. no bios for coaches. guy is the manager of every team and assistant mgr of every team. the guy even coaches teams he isnt the official coach of. LRYSA/Surf Ladera copied the LNYSA/Laguna FC structure with one dude in charge and making the $.  fits right in at Surf. picture of that guy can be found in any article with the topic "What is wrong with youth soccer in America?"


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## chargerfan (Nov 2, 2017)

timbuck said:


> My understanding of affiliate programs is that there isn't so much a franchise fee.  But you have order uniforms from their supplier and they get a cut of those sales.


Bingo


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## Multi Sport (Nov 2, 2017)

timbuck said:


> My understanding of affiliate programs is that there isn't so much a franchise fee.  But you have order uniforms from their supplier and they get a cut of those sales.


Where did you hear that from?


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## timbuck (Nov 2, 2017)

Multi Sport said:


> Where did you hear that from?


An article somewhere where a club (might have been Surf) was talking about how they expand their name but dont charge franchise fees.


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## Not_that_Serious (Nov 2, 2017)

timbuck said:


> An article somewhere where a club (might have been Surf) was talking about how they expand their name but dont charge franchise fees.


they probably have to buy all the Promotional stuff through the main club as well. The clubs setup fast, so Im sure they have canopies, sweaters, banners, etc ready to go as well. it all adds up


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## Lambchop (Nov 6, 2017)

Not_that_Serious said:


> I thought WC had issue with DA. I know many players in 05 got displaced from flights like dominoes due to the problem.  id hope just changing a jersey wouldnt circumvent unfixed issues


This was on the boys side.


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## Not_that_Serious (Nov 6, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> This was on the boys side.


Yes 05 i know a couple teams that found space for some 05 boys that were dumped


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## Josep (Nov 12, 2017)

WC will probably be pretty smart about it. 

Anyone remember the FC blades attempt to get into Slammers.  They ended up not getting in but paying bigly for name and branded at Irv Slammers.   Passed the cost to parents.  

They did it right with Galaxy.  Lesson learned by the folks running the club.


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## mirage (Nov 12, 2017)

The second hand info I got said, WC was sold to Surf.  Not a franchise.  Don't know if true but this makes senses to me as Surf name, I don't think, adds much if any to WC.


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## jdiaz (Nov 12, 2017)

mirage said:


> The second hand info I got said, WC was sold to Surf.  Not a franchise.  Don't know if true but this makes senses to me as Surf name, I don't think, adds much if any to WC.


Just bought new sets of uniforms. And now have to spend more money to buy new ones directly thru surf.


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## chargerfan (Nov 12, 2017)

jdiaz said:


> Just bought new sets of uniforms. And now have to spend more money to buy new ones directly thru surf.



You mean, $urf


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## Seahawk (Nov 12, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> You mean, $urf


When is this change going to take place?


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## chargerfan (Nov 12, 2017)

Seahawk said:


> When is this change going to take place?


Once they have gotten so big they can just drop the pretenses.


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## espola (Nov 12, 2017)

mirage said:


> The second hand info I got said, WC was sold to Surf.  Not a franchise.  Don't know if true but this makes senses to me as Surf name, I don't think, adds much if any to WC.


Sold?  How do you sell a non-profit?  Who do you buy it from?


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## watfly (Nov 12, 2017)

espola said:


> Sold?  How do you sell a non-profit?  Who do you buy it from?


You're correct, a non-profit can't be sold.  Non-profits can be merged or WC could be liquidated and assets distributed to Surf.


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## Snchz13 (Nov 12, 2017)

They forgot Florida Surf!   We went to play a tournament last year in Florida and played against Florida Surf!! Ugh.. really?  



JackZ said:


> *You get a Surf and you get Surf and you get a Surf! Everybody gets a Surf!!! *
> View attachment 1612


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## espola (Nov 12, 2017)

watfly said:


> You're correct, a non-profit can't be sold.  Non-profits can be merged or WC could be liquidated and assets distributed to Surf.


Depending on the non-profit and its financial situation, it might be merged with the approval of both boards, carrying along its assets and liabilities; or it might be liquidated which would involve sale of assets to another non-profit or the public, which leaves open the question of the disposal of any surplus after all creditors have been satisfied, if any.   I have seen one non-profit constitution that assigned any remaining assets after liquidation to a specific class of charities.


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## timbuck (Nov 12, 2017)

I have no insight here.  I'm curious about club mergers / buyouts / affiliations.  
In the case of any of the above, does an individual or group of individuals get a payout?

If there is a merger, can a club president / doc / anyone else get a payout?


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## LASTMAN14 (Nov 12, 2017)

timbuck said:


> I have no insight here.  I'm curious about club mergers / buyouts / affiliations.
> In the case of any of the above, does an individual or group of individuals get a payout?
> 
> If there is a merger, can a club president / doc / anyone else get a payout?


Getting a payout from a non-profit sounds fishy...


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## RedHawk (Nov 12, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Getting a payout from a non-profit sounds fishy...


Can you please refrain from making these types of comments!!

Sincerely,

You local club DOC


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## LASTMAN14 (Nov 12, 2017)

RedHawk said:


> Can you please refrain from making these types of comments!!
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> You local club DOC


Right! Next time I will refer to it by its correct name. The Sunshine account.


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## Fact (Nov 12, 2017)

timbuck said:


> I have no insight here.  I'm curious about club mergers / buyouts / affiliations.
> In the case of any of the above, does an individual or group of individuals get a payout?
> 
> If there is a merger, can a club president / doc / anyone else get a payout?


No reason they cannot get a severance package.


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## Fact (Nov 12, 2017)

mirage said:


> The second hand info I got said, WC was sold to Surf.  Not a franchise.  Don't know if true but this makes senses to me as Surf name, I don't think, adds much if any to WC.


I was thinking the same thing. The Surf name adds nothing to WC and I had heard they were actively seeking acquisitions not affiliates.  

Since they are so close geographically, will Surf require the best players to come down to the Polo Fields?  I heard that was part of the plan but I would just think that it would encourage players to go to other local clubs instead.


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## Kicker4Life (Nov 12, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Getting a payout from a non-profit sounds fishy...


They call them “Management Fees” or a paid Board Member position!


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## Lambchop (Nov 12, 2017)

Fact said:


> I was thinking the same thing. The Surf name adds nothing to WC and I had heard they were actively seeking acquisitions not affiliates.
> 
> Since they are so close geographically, will Surf require the best players to come down to the Polo Fields?  I heard that was part of the plan but I would just think that it would encourage players to go to other local clubs instead.


Maybe everyone needs to put their speculations away.  There are many players, families and coaches whom this will deeply affect.  Time will tell as to the nature of this merger/acquisition/purchase or whatever it is.


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## timbuck (Nov 12, 2017)

Until there is an official announcements, all we can do is speculate.


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## LASTMAN14 (Nov 12, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Until there is an official announcements, all we can do is speculate.


That's exactly what this forum is all about "Speculation".


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## LASTMAN14 (Nov 12, 2017)

Kicker4Life said:


> They call them “Management Fees” or a paid Board Member position!


Is that legal with a non profit to individuals with non-paid positions? This interesting stuff.


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## espola (Nov 13, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Getting a payout from a non-profit sounds fishy...


All the non-profits of any size that I know of have paid employees and/or provide a stipend to their officers.


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## Penalty Kicks Stink (Nov 13, 2017)

Heard all the Surf affiliates will report under the new Surf OC


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## timbuck (Nov 13, 2017)

What does "report" mean?  
Why would the affiliates (which have basically been running their own program with a surf logo on it) agree to that?


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## BarcaLover (Nov 13, 2017)

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> Heard all the Surf affiliates will report under the new Surf OC


Negative Ghost Rider


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## Keepermom2 (Nov 13, 2017)

For nonprofits it isn't about what they call a fee it is about how it is disbursed that can cause an issue with their nonprofit status generally speaking.  Nonprofits have management expenses such as attorney fees, accountants, insurance, administrative staff etc.


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## Dos Equis (Nov 13, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Is that legal with a non profit to individuals with non-paid positions? This interesting stuff.


Would require disclosure on the following year tax form if they are executives, board members or have any say on prior or merged club policy/operations.  These are publicly available, the trick is to know the actual legal name of the tax-exempt organization if you want to find it.  But paid positions in tax-exempt organizations are common (the NFL was one until recently, as are the NCAA bowl games, all with executives making large salaries).  

Truth is most tax-exempt youth sports clubs have volunteer boards with no ownership and little to no (and sometimes, after donations, negative) cash compensation.  The youth clubs that do not have boards and are run by one or more DOC's -- they are often run more as a business to make money.  A bit ironic, but mostly true.


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## LASTMAN14 (Nov 13, 2017)

Dos Equis said:


> Would require disclosure on the following year tax form if they are executives, board members or have any say on prior or merged club policy/operations.  These are publicly available, the trick is to know the actual legal name of the tax-exempt organization if you want to find it.  But paid positions in tax-exempt organizations are common (the NFL was one until recently, as are the NCAA bowl games, all with executives making large salaries).
> 
> Truth is most tax-exempt youth sports clubs have volunteer boards with no ownership and little to no (and sometimes, after donations, negative) cash compensation.  The youth clubs that do not have boards and are run by one or more DOC's -- they are often run more as a business to make money.  A bit ironic, but mostly true.


Thanks for the detailed information.


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## jpeter (Nov 13, 2017)

Dos Equis said:


> Would require disclosure on the following year tax form if they are executives, board members or have any say on prior or merged club policy/operations.  These are publicly available, the trick is to know the actual legal name of the tax-exempt organization if you want to find it.  But paid positions in tax-exempt organizations are common (the NFL was one until recently, as are the NCAA bowl games, all with executives making large salaries).
> 
> Truth is most tax-exempt youth sports clubs have volunteer boards with no ownership and little to no (and sometimes, after donations, negative) cash compensation.  The youth clubs that do not have boards and are run by one or more DOC's -- they are often run more as a business to make money.  A bit ironic, but mostly true.


Another shell game is to hide "investment money"  cash or assets, when you look at the books of some of the organizations... have $1m+ each year surplus that they invest is some asset so they don't appear to be making a profit.   But guess what the people making those investments are making money on those,  that's why you see investment bankers, lawyers, and financial people heavily involved on the boards when they don't even have kids sometimes.   Presidents of some of the clubs are investment bankers, why do you think that is?

The other big money makers are tournaments, some directors are pulling is 6 figures " running" them, so how do you get to be a tournament director?   Work for a club that has one and you can get some extra "side work".  The tournament is it's own non profit or profit organization that you don't see in the normal club financials.    There are other ways that these non-profit are disguising what's really going on but that's another topic.


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## espola (Nov 13, 2017)

Dos Equis said:


> Would require disclosure on the following year tax form if they are executives, board members or have any say on prior or merged club policy/operations.  These are publicly available, the trick is to know the actual legal name of the tax-exempt organization if you want to find it.  But paid positions in tax-exempt organizations are common (the NFL was one until recently, as are the NCAA bowl games, all with executives making large salaries).
> 
> Truth is most tax-exempt youth sports clubs have volunteer boards with no ownership and little to no (and sometimes, after donations, negative) cash compensation.  The youth clubs that do not have boards and are run by one or more DOC's -- they are often run more as a business to make money.  A bit ironic, but mostly true.


I was on the local soccer club board when we re-organized from an elected Registrar who was paid a small fee (about $3-$5) for every registration or transfer processed to a hired admin who was paid a set fee every month and was expected to do all that as part of her duties.  And of course we also paid all the coaches with extra pay for the Directors.  

My wife is a member of a large professional non-profit that pays its elected officers nothing (but does cover their normal business expenses) and employs a paid Executive Director with a permanent staff of at least 3 people. 

My daughter works for a non-profit that provides training and conference services for smaller professional organizations.  I believe they have a couple of dozen employees overall.

Presidio League has no paid employees, but in the past they used to pay fees or stipends to board members when they did specific tasks, such as rescheduling games.

Surf Cup Sports Inc, which is a separate entity from San Diego Surf Soccer Club, appears to have only one full-time employee, who is paid well.  It aappears they may have changed their name and organizational structure recently, or have spun off a new non-profit.


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## jpeter (Nov 13, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Getting a payout from a non-profit sounds fishy...


How do politicians get paid back? Appointments, favors, influence, future assests in early angel investment opportunities, etc.

People on both side of this equation will be making $.   The WC people now have a bigger tournament, more teams, more revenue with the surf name, surf makes more $ overall.  Pretty easy to see why these merged happen.

Non profit is the USA needs a major overall but nobody has yet been bold enough to challenge all the religious billion dollar money makers and other who disguise themselves as nonprofits when they're really businesses.  

The answer are corporations that are for  "public benefit".    No reason to play games and hide the "non-profit" money for organizations that are operating as businesses.


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## Dos Equis (Nov 13, 2017)

jpeter said:


> Another shell game is to hide "investment money"  cash or assets, when you look at the books of some of the organizations... have $1m+ each year surplus that they invest is some asset so they don't appear to be making a profit.   But guess what the people making those investments are making money on those,  that's why you see investment bankers, lawyers, and financial people heavily involved on the boards when they don't even have kids sometimes.   Presidents of some of the clubs are investment bankers, why do you think that is?
> 
> The other big money makers are tournaments, some directors are pulling is 6 figures " running" them, so how do you get to be a tournament director?   Work for a club that has one and you can get some extra "side work".  The tournament is it's own non profit or profit organization that you don't see in the normal club financials.    There are other ways that these non-profit are disguising what's really going on but that's another topic.


Take a look at a 990 form or, better yet, be responsible for filling one out and signing it -- investment income must be disclosed, and lack of disclosure would be illegal.  You can point to a tax-exempt board/club that is engaged in this activity, unless you are just speculating.

Also, a board member earning any form of compensation, even through services, would be covered by the law as well, as that represents a potential conflict of interest and could result in a loss of tax-exempt status.   If there is no disclosed income on their forms, essentially what you are claiming is that these people are not just being unethical, but potentially violating the law.

You see investment bankers, lawyers and tax/accounting people on these boards because 1) just like most parents, they care about their kids and want to be involved, and 2) because our tax law and regulations are quite complex, as are the liability issues and other legal pitfalls when working with children and their parents, boards often have to rely on people with legal, accounting, tax and financial backgrounds to make sure they comply with the law and to reduce their risk.  Frankly, I would not recommend being on any youth board without at least one person with that background involved, even if you have D&O insurance.

Most of these people have a lot more income and careers to risk than any financial gain they would receive by trying to use a youth soccer program to make a few thousand $.  Do a few club admins and others make money at clubs?  Yes, and they work pretty damn hard for that money.

Tournaments are another thing entirely, crticize those all you want, but educate yourself before you make accusations like this against such a broad group of people who are mostly making club soccer more accessible and affordable for everyone.


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## jpeter (Nov 13, 2017)

Dos Equis said:


> Take a look at a 990 form or, better yet, be responsible for filling one out and signing it -- investment income must be disclosed, and lack of disclosure would be illegal.  You can point to a tax-exempt board/club that is engaged in this activity, unless you are just speculating.
> 
> Also, a board member earning any form of compensation, even through services, would be covered by the law as well, as that represents a potential conflict of interest and could result in a loss of tax-exempt status.   If there is no disclosed income on their forms, essentially what you are claiming is that these people are not just being unethical, but potentially violating the law.
> 
> ...


I have taken a look at some 990's that some clubs have sumbitted in previous years because I was interested in how there where spending 3m+ or more in revenue for example and what I found surprised me.  800k-1M+ in cash, investments as a assest each year.   Who's managing those investment? Just happens to be a firm or individuals tired directly or indirectly to the club like the president for example.   No speculation or need to,  it's all there simple.  If you don't think there are conflicts in interests maybe your just too naive to realize what really going on with all the mergers, afflicates, and shell games.

People are inriching themselves through youth sports, a $4+ billion dollar industry just like the nbcsports expose by Bryant Gumbel pointed out.

Club soccer is not affordable for a large segment of the population so what are you talking about?   How is it more affordable and why?  I have yet to hear or talk to anyone that claims club soccer is more affordable because of a tournament.  More money, time, travel, hotel stays cost families more$ to play in these tournament.


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## espola (Nov 13, 2017)

jpeter said:


> I have taken a look at some 990's that some clubs have sumbitted in previous years because I was interested in how there where spending 3m+ or more in revenue for example and what I found surprised me.  800k-1M+ in cash, investments as a assest each year.   Who's managing those investment? Just happens to be a firm or individuals tired directly or indirectly to the club like the president for example.   No speculation or need to,  it's all there simple.  If you don't think there are conflicts in interests maybe your just too naive to realize what really going on with all the mergers, afflicates, and shell games.
> 
> People are inriching themselves through youth sports, a $4+ billion dollar industry just like the nbcsports expose by Bryant Gumbel pointed out.
> 
> Club soccer is not affordable for a large segment of the population so what are you talking about?   How is it more affordable and why?  I have yet to hear or talk to anyone that claims club soccer is more affordable because of a tournament.  More money, time, travel, hotel stays cost families more$ to play in these tournament.


I am not so naive that I just believe someone posting on the internet.  Which clubs are you referring to?


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## Dos Equis (Nov 13, 2017)

jpeter said:


> I have taken a look at some 990's that some clubs have sumbitted in previous years because I was interested in how there where spending 3m+ or more in revenue for example and what I found surprised me.  800k-1M+ in cash, investments as a assest each year.   Who's managing those investment? Just happens to be a firm or individuals tired directly or indirectly to the club like the president for example.   No speculation or need to,  it's all there simple.  If you don't think there are conflicts in interests maybe your just too naive to realize what really going on with all the mergers, afflicates, and shell games.
> 
> People are inriching themselves through youth sports, a $4+ billion dollar industry just like the nbcsports expose by Bryant Gumbel pointed out.
> 
> Club soccer is not affordable for a large segment of the population so what are you talking about?   How is it more affordable and why?  I have yet to hear or talk to anyone that claims club soccer is more affordable because of a tournament.  More money, time, travel, hotel stays cost families more$ to play in these tournament.


Name the club.  Link the 990.  Which president and which investment firm?  It is public information, so you are not prohibited from doing so.  

I was the one who mentioned the conflict of interest, and the requirement there be policies in place.  Ask a club if they have one (that is your right), and let us know which do not.

Bryant Gumbel works for HBO, and his segment was mostly about sports tourism and the increased travel requirements and the money being made on youth sports by those who control the travel and the large venues.  As I said, criticize tournaments all your want, but very few clubs control the venues and/or large tournaments.  Do Surf, Legends, PDA, and Players -- yes.  See, that is called naming some names.  The people who control SilverLakes -- they are indeed in it for money, otherwise that venue would never have been built, as it required lots of money and a promised return on that investment.  

Back up your accusations with some facts. Or put on your tin foil hat and go back to your occupy wall street friends, and stop implying a large number of youth soccer club board volunteers are angaged in nefarious activities and enriching themselves.


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## timbuck (Nov 13, 2017)

This is an interesting article on the costs of running a club and how the potential for government regulations to increase those costs (i.e.-  W2 employees va independent contractor status)
https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/75634/pay-to-play-the-complexity-of-high-cost-youth-soc.html


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## Keepermom2 (Nov 13, 2017)

timbuck said:


> This is an interesting article on the costs of running a club and how the potential for government regulations to increase those costs (i.e.-  W2 employees va independent contractor status)
> https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/75634/pay-to-play-the-complexity-of-high-cost-youth-soc.html


The article was really good.  The only thing that really doesn't make sense is the increased cost from switching an employee from contractor to W2 employee.  The increased cost should only be about 8% of salary for the payment of employer portion taxes and a couple days of sick pay.  Either he is looking at the line items wrong (i.e. taxes paid to government include taxes deducted from employee salary) or they didn't take the option of exempting the employee from having to provide them medical insurance and the like.   50% to 60% increase makes no sense whatsoever.


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## timbuck (Nov 13, 2017)

Keepermom2 said:


> The article was really good.  The only thing that really doesn't make sense is the increased cost from switching an employee from contractor to W2 employee.  The increased cost should only be about 8% of salary for the payment of employer portion taxes and a couple days of sick pay.  Either he is looking at the line items wrong (i.e. taxes paid to government include taxes deducted from employee salary) or they didn't take the option of exempting the employee from having to provide them medical insurance and the like.   50% to 60% increase makes no sense whatsoever.


Maybe  they had to pay them more now that they were being taxed? 
Were they able to get away without paying workers comp when  they were 1099?  Other insurance?  
Were they able to pay them hourly?  Or could they be a salaried employee? If a coach works at a tournament and puts in more htan  8 hours, then OT is needed while working in California.  There are some new laws regarding salaried employees needing to be earning a certain minimum amount (has to do with employers skirting the overtime laws).  
And were they paid on a per team basis, per hour basis or is there some other type of calculation they could use?


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## Dos Equis (Nov 13, 2017)

Keepermom2 said:


> The article was really good.  The only thing that really doesn't make sense is the increased cost from switching an employee from contractor to W2 employee.  The increased cost should only be about 8% of salary for the payment of employer portion taxes and a couple days of sick pay.  Either he is looking at the line items wrong (i.e. taxes paid to government include taxes deducted from employee salary) or they didn't take the option of exempting the employee from having to provide them medical insurance and the like.   50% to 60% increase makes no sense whatsoever.


That article/interview is excellent.  This might help on the increase in costs.  In my expereince, without providing healthcare and with less than 50 employees, the number was/is actually closer to 15%.  

How terrific it is that our state, the CA EDD, makes sure that youth clubs bear the burden of enforcing tax payments by coaches through a W2 process, and does not let them go with 1099's so the coaches are  responsible.  Still wondering why clubs need lawyers and financial professionals on their boards?

Back on topic, there are many questions raised by this rumored merger, there are many interesting issues created, and there is a larger conversation this fits into on what is happeneing to elite youth soccer in this country, mostly driven by the mandates and increased role of US Soccer.  I wold be interested in thoughts on those topics.


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## Not_that_Serious (Nov 14, 2017)

Josep said:


> WC will probably be pretty smart about it.
> 
> Anyone remember the FC blades attempt to get into Slammers.  They ended up not getting in but paying bigly for name and branded at Irv Slammers.   Passed the cost to parents.
> 
> They did it right with Galaxy.  Lesson learned by the folks running the club.


Galaxy? Right in which way? Galaxy has done the same thing taking over clubs with high enrollment just to get a presence out. Better than the day were they would slap a logo on big tournament winners. OC Galaxy is almost an afterthought. They basically went around plucking Flight 2 kids and promising parents Flight 1 spots - so many played out of their level or didnt even make Flight 1. Many of the teams they have barely can field a team. During their tournament in OC some teams had no subs or playing 1 man down. Some of the teams were getting beat by not very good Matrix teams - believe even 1 got beat by a bad plus team. Seen them have to guest play kids from higher flight to lower flight so the team doesnt get hammered. The lower flight team won but then the higher flight team gets beat badly because they guessed some decent players.  Top Galaxy teams in other areas are competitive, but the lower flights tend to be there for marketing.  Not the right way to do things in my opinon. Some parents only see "LA Galaxy" and proudly post to other parents "My child plays for LA Galaxy". Club takers are a fast way to get numbers, but really the right way? usually not


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## Josep (Nov 17, 2017)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Galaxy? Right in which way? Galaxy has done the same thing taking over clubs with high enrollment just to get a presence out. Better than the day were they would slap a logo on big tournament winners. OC Galaxy is almost an afterthought. They basically went around plucking Flight 2 kids and promising parents Flight 1 spots - so many played out of their level or didnt even make Flight 1. Many of the teams they have barely can field a team. During their tournament in OC some teams had no subs or playing 1 man down. Some of the teams were getting beat by not very good Matrix teams - believe even 1 got beat by a bad plus team. Seen them have to guest play kids from higher flight to lower flight so the team doesnt get hammered. The lower flight team won but then the higher flight team gets beat badly because they guessed some decent players.  Top Galaxy teams in other areas are competitive, but the lower flights tend to be there for marketing.  Not the right way to do things in my opinon. Some parents only see "LA Galaxy" and proudly post to other parents "My child plays for LA Galaxy". Club takers are a fast way to get numbers, but really the right way? usually not



First, they aren’t a DA program, so they don’t have that advantage.  I’m merely talking about a name change.   Their attempt at being under the slammers brand didn’t work very well. They have the youth rec program which cultivates and feeds players into their system.  Many of their flight 1 teams are competitive, especially the olders.   Yes, they are oversaturated with teams, but OC is saturated with club soccer.  I’m not talking about the quality of their program.  I’m talking about the transition from one club name to another.  

Let’s be honest there’s a huge chunk of kids all over the map that don’t really belong in club soccer.  It isn’t like it used to be 20-25 years ago.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Nov 17, 2017)

Josep said:


> Let’s be honest there’s a huge chunk of kids all over the map that don’t really belong in club soccer.  It isn’t like it used to be 20-25 years ago.


You are right, it isn't the same, it is better.  If the goal is to be better as a nation at soccer, we need more kids playing soccer.  The more kids that play soccer and develop a passion for a game the bigger the pool of talent.  

The people who lament the current state of soccer versus times past are a curious bunch.  Does somehow a kid that isn't great being on "club" soccer somehow diminish what you did 20-25 years ago?   The "lets move everybody that isn't great to rec" angle is stupid.  The kids are having fun.  They are making friends.  They are getting exercise and they are staying out of trouble.  These are wins.  More kids in competitive soccer, not less.


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## Dos Equis (Nov 17, 2017)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> You are right, it isn't the same, it is better.  If the goal is to be better as a nation at soccer, we need more kids playing soccer.  The more kids that play soccer and develop a passion for a game the bigger the pool of talent.
> 
> The people who lament the current state of soccer versus times past are a curious bunch.  Does somehow a kid that isn't great being on "club" soccer somehow diminish what you did 20-25 years ago?   The "lets move everybody that isn't great to rec" angle is stupid.  The kids are having fun.  They are making friends.  They are getting exercise and they are staying out of trouble.  These are wins.  More kids in competitive soccer, not less.


Versus twenty years ago (some of us are old enough to remember), we have 
1) more large venues, closer to where we all live; 
2) better quality fields, on average;
3) more professional, educated and better quality coaches, 
4) more opportunities for players at every level (club, rec, AYSO, DA)
5) more kids playing soccer

I could tell you about a 9 year old girl who wanted more than AYSO select/extra, a mere 12-13 years ago.  No club would respond to her inquiries, she went to the two tryouts that were within 30 minutes from her home, was treated like an outsider and unwelcome, and did not make it on any of the very small number of teams that existed at that time.  Fortunately, she stuck with it and made a newly formed club team the following year --  which was around the time clubs in our area started expanding team counts and offered club soccer to younger age girls.  If that expansion had not occured, I highly doubt she would have been able to break into what seemed a closed system with pretty fixed rosters.  With luck, her college soccer career will last a few more weekends.

Club soccer in our area used to be very exclusive, more controlled by the volunteer parent coaches with kids on the teams, much less of a meritocracy, with little to no transparancy and accountability.  It may not be perfect, but it has vastly improved.  Some of the "old guys" lament the days when Socal clubs had one team per age group, travelled the country, and beat up on everyone.  But the more honest "old guys" admit that, at least on the girls side, a top college team from the early-mid 90's would have a hard time beating today's top U16 club teams.


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## Kicker4Life (Nov 17, 2017)

Josep said:


> First, they aren’t a DA program, so they don’t have that advantage.  I’m merely talking about a name change.   Their attempt at being under the slammers brand didn’t work very well. They have the youth rec program which cultivates and feeds players into their system.  Many of their flight 1 teams are competitive, especially the olders.   Yes, they are oversaturated with teams, but OC is saturated with club soccer.  I’m not talking about the quality of their program.  I’m talking about the transition from one club name to another.
> 
> Let’s be honest there’s a huge chunk of kids all over the map that don’t really belong in club soccer.  It isn’t like it used to be 20-25 years ago.


25 years ago you couldn’t find soccer on TV and gas was $1!  That’s really not a good comparison. 

Things have changed and the sport has grown.  Whether or not a kid should be playing Club soccer is a decision for the parents, not the Clubs. They will happily accept payment.


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## espola (Nov 17, 2017)

Kicker4Life said:


> 25 years ago you couldn’t find soccer on TV and gas was $1!  That’s really not a good comparison.
> 
> Things have changed and the sport has grown.  Whether or not a kid should be playing Club soccer is a decision for the parents, not the Clubs. They will happily accept payment.


Maybe 45 years ago.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Nov 17, 2017)

Kicker4Life said:


> 25 years ago you couldn’t find soccer on TV and gas was $1!  That’s really not a good comparison.
> 
> Things have changed and the sport has grown.  Whether or not a kid should be playing Club soccer is a decision for the parents, not the Clubs. They will happily accept payment.


Didn't they have Big Macs for $1 as well back then


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## Soccer (Nov 17, 2017)

http://ocsurfsoccer.com/


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## JackZ (Nov 17, 2017)

*STRENGTH IN UNITY – Surf Cup Sports and West Coast Futbol Club Form Groundbreaking Partnership*
SAN DIEGO, CA., November 17, 2017 – We are pleased to announce that starting with the 2018/2019 season, West Coast Futbol Club will rebrand as “Orange County Surf Soccer Club” and become a partner of the Surf Soccer Club family, bringing together two of the most influential organizations in the Southern California soccer community.

The leaders of West Coast Futbol Club and Surf Cup Sports agree that the ultimate goal of an elite youth soccer club is to give its players the resources, coaching and structure necessary to allow them to fulfill their highest potential in soccer, whether that be a member of a SCDSL team or of the US National Team. We believe this partnership will allow each player to reach his/her fullest potential in a top quality organization that Southern California has never seen.

With an aim to develop world-class soccer players across Southern California, this historic partnership brings together Surf Cup Sports — a world class event and brand management firm, with a legendary youth club, West Coast Futbol Club — which has earned 4 USYS and 1 ECNL National Championships and is routinely ranked among the top 10 clubs in the nation. This partnership tracks a trend in the past 5 years of clubs and brands coming together to pool resources in order to provide a true development pathway for the best soccer players in a region.

“As soccer in the United States continues to evolve, we as an organization continue to look to increase our value proposition to our players and families,” said Girls VP Nick Cucuk.

“Through this partnership we look forward to aligning the top talent in the county and providing a real pathway for all of our players to compete at the college and professional level,” added Mike Lane Boys VP.

“At Surf Cup Sports, we believe that competitive youth soccer will continue its trajectory of consolidation and overall professionalization of club services. We look forward to welcoming West Coast Futbol Club to our Surf family and providing access to our extensive coaching education and administrative resources,” said Jeremy McDonald, VP Business Development for Surf Cup Sports.

“A partnership with Surf Cup Sports is a natural alliance that will benefit both organizations and all of our members,” said Rick Hough, President of West Coast Futbol Club. “Our Board of Directors’ number one priority is to provide great opportunities for our youth soccer players and take advantage of the changes in the current and future competitive marketplace.”

Founded in 1997, West Coast Futbol Club has consistently ranked highly among youth soccer clubs in IMG Academy Rankings. West Coast Futbol Club is known for a club culture that values superior technical skills, tactical awareness and a possession style of play that is highly prized by college coaches and U.S. Soccer. Orange County Surf Soccer Club participates in the US Soccer Development Academy (USSDA) and in the Elite Clubs National League (ECNL).

Surf Cup Sports was formed in 2012 to manage the iconic summer Surf Cup and winter College Cup and has since won a long-term lease for the 112-acre soccer complex in Del Mar known as Surf Cup Sports Park and now manages the SoCal Sports Park in Oceanside. Surf Cup Sports also manages the Surf brand and provides operational support to Surf clubs as well as the benefits of broader relationships with partners that include Nike, Manchester City FC, Soccer.com and many others.


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## Kicker4Life (Nov 17, 2017)

espola said:


> Maybe 45 years ago.


Well, I wasn’t alive 45 years ago so I can only go with what I know!


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## espola (Nov 17, 2017)

JackZ said:


> *STRENGTH IN UNITY – Surf Cup Sports and West Coast Futbol Club Form Groundbreaking Partnership*
> SAN DIEGO, CA., November 17, 2017 – We are pleased to announce that starting with the 2018/2019 season, West Coast Futbol Club will rebrand as “Orange County Surf Soccer Club” and become a partner of the Surf Soccer Club family, bringing together two of the most influential organizations in the Southern California soccer community.
> 
> The leaders of West Coast Futbol Club and Surf Cup Sports agree that the ultimate goal of an elite youth soccer club is to give its players the resources, coaching and structure necessary to allow them to fulfill their highest potential in soccer, whether that be a member of a SCDSL team or of the US National Team. We believe this partnership will allow each player to reach his/her fullest potential in a top quality organization that Southern California has never seen.
> ...


Very revealing (maybe not intentionally) of the relationship between Surf Cup Sports and Surf Soccer Club.  WC is not merging with Surf, they are merging with Surf Cup Sports.


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## JackZ (Nov 17, 2017)

Soccer said:


> http://ocsurfsoccer.com/


Domain registrant is Bryan Thistle, VP of Surf Cup Sports LLC
https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanthistle/


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## Fact (Nov 17, 2017)

espola said:


> Very revealing (maybe not intentionally) of the relationship between Surf Cup Sports and Surf Soccer Club.  WC is not merging with Surf, they are merging with Surf Cup Sports.


I agree with E for once.  I had heard the relationship was going to be different than from the other affiliates.   I also heard that they are actively looking for clubs even closer to home and the deal would require the best players go to the Polo Fields, although I am not sure how families would buy into something like this.

I wonder what is going to happen to the West Coast coaches.  Will they be required to go to San Diego?  West Coast has a lot of great coaches irrespective of the number of A licenses they have.  I also believe that WC pays their  coaches more.  Will that be affected because I know of a lot of clubs that would kill for some of the WC coaches that defect.


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## Nutmeg (Nov 17, 2017)

What we have in the US right now is an anti competitive anti competition climate. US Soccer rather than creating a climate of competition with ECNL, SCDSL etc  in our country fractured it with its DA league. The Federations mandate is to facilitate the growth of Soccer for all. Not just the ones that it seems worthy. It has no business operating a puppet regime under the false flags of non profit 501C3 clubs a closed league that disincentives large portions of the country while lining its pockets with cash from the very consumers it is tasked with serving. These clubs like Surf, Rush, etc are essentially corporations that rather than compete with smller market clubs use there leverage and power and to consume them to remove competition from the market place and thus can further artificially inflate club fees, tournament fees, field access, travel and hotel monies and yes even acces to who plays and who doesn’t.  This will continue and has already played out in college sports with mega conferences Like the Power 5 gobbling up Universities to further their geographic footprint and create cable channels Big 10 network, longhorn tv, Pac 12, etc. So far 3 NWSL teams have folded and been absorbed by MLS clubs. NASL is currently suing US Soccer for D2 sanctioning stays that US is denying them.  Small independent clubs FC Cincinnati, NY Cosmos, etc are being forced out of the market place not by consumers or inferior Soccer but by US Soccer denying access to sanctioning them.  The same tactics are seen with youth club Soccer.  This does not grow the game but further erodes local small market clubs the serves the people and players in that community. This is not a conspiracy it’s not fiction, it’s reality, and starts with US Soccer.


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## Fact (Nov 17, 2017)

JackZ said:


> Domain registrant is Bryan Thistle, VP of Surf Cup Sports LLC
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanthistle/


aka on the forum as Thunderbolt and Cocosdad as well as other screen names


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## Fact (Nov 17, 2017)

Nutmeg said:


> What we have in the US right now is an anti competitive anti competition climate. US Soccer rather than creating a climate of competition with ECNL, SCDSL etc  in our country fractured it with its DA league. The Federations mandate is to facilitate the growth of Soccer for all. Not just the ones that it seems worthy. It has no business operating a puppet regime under the false flags of non profit 501C3 clubs a closed league that disincentives large portions of the country while lining its pockets with cash from the very consumers it is tasked with serving. These clubs like Surf, Rush, etc are essentially corporations that rather than compete with smller market clubs use there leverage and power and to consume them to remove competition from the market place and thus can further artificially inflate club fees, tournament fees, field access, travel and hotel monies and yes even acces to who plays and who doesn’t.  This will continue and has already played out in college sports with mega conferences Like the Power 5 gobbling up Universities to further their geographic footprint and create cable channels Big 10 network, longhorn tv, Pac 12, etc. So far 3 NWSL teams have folded and been absorbed by MLS clubs. NASL is currently suing US Soccer for D2 sanctioning stays that US is denying them.  Small independent clubs FC Cincinnati, NY Cosmos, etc are being forced out of the market place not by consumers or inferior Soccer but by US Soccer denying access to sanctioning them.  The same tactics are seen with youth club Soccer.  This does not grow the game but further erodes local small market clubs the serves the people and players in that community. This is not a conspiracy it’s not fiction, it’s reality, and starts with US Soccer.


I hate to agree with you because I am pro business, hate claims of conspiracies and monopolies but you nailed it.


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## Fact (Nov 17, 2017)

Out of fairness I will say that Surf is not the only mega club gobbling up other clubs, they are just doing more of it in our backyard.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Nov 17, 2017)

It's tough to see a club like WCFC being absorbed by a larger one. Have appreciated them from afar for many a reason. Won't be the same anymore.


----------



## Surfref (Nov 17, 2017)

Multi Sport said:


> Where did you hear that from?


From a good friend that used to coach for SD Surf.


----------



## Socal United (Nov 17, 2017)

Next up, Del Mar Sharks.....


----------



## Fact (Nov 17, 2017)

Socal United said:


> Next up, Del Mar Sharks.....


If that is a guess, I think it is pretty good.  I was wondering why Surf would allow Sharks to get ECNL without a fight when they had a monopoly on San Diego for so long.

Now I wonder how Sharks voted on the issue of letting Surf back into Presidio.


----------



## El Clasico (Nov 17, 2017)

Nutmeg said:


> What we have in the US right now is an anti competitive anti competition climate. US Soccer rather than creating a climate of competition with ECNL, SCDSL etc  in our country fractured it with its DA league. The Federations mandate is to facilitate the growth of Soccer for all. Not just the ones that it seems worthy. It has no business operating a puppet regime under the false flags of non profit 501C3 clubs a closed league that disincentives large portions of the country while lining its pockets with cash from the very consumers it is tasked with serving. These clubs like Surf, Rush, etc are essentially corporations that rather than compete with smller market clubs use there leverage and power and to consume them to remove competition from the market place and thus can further artificially inflate club fees, tournament fees, field access, travel and hotel monies and yes even acces to who plays and who doesn’t.  This will continue and has already played out in college sports with mega conferences Like the Power 5 gobbling up Universities to further their geographic footprint and create cable channels Big 10 network, longhorn tv, Pac 12, etc. So far 3 NWSL teams have folded and been absorbed by MLS clubs. NASL is currently suing US Soccer for D2 sanctioning stays that US is denying them.  Small independent clubs FC Cincinnati, NY Cosmos, etc are being forced out of the market place not by consumers or inferior Soccer but by US Soccer denying access to sanctioning them.  The same tactics are seen with youth club Soccer.  This does not grow the game but further erodes local small market clubs the serves the people and players in that community. This is not a conspiracy it’s not fiction, it’s reality, and starts with US Soccer.


You are so right!! This trend will continue for years to come.  As long as you have middle and upper class parents who continue to drive the revenue stream, there is no way to stop this money grab.  Irony is that the very people who fund this charade are, for the most part, parents with children who will NEVER make it to the big game. Only in Club Soccer do you see people buying into the whole "pathway to something..." bullsh*t.  I have never seen a professional athlete from any sport that I am familiar with that needed someone else to provide them with a pathway to anything. Mostly just people or organizations getting in their way, on their way, to the big leagues.  If there is one thing I have noticed over the years, it is that the unicorns make their own path and do their own thing.  In fact, it is usually all the uptight do gooders screaming "don't be that parent" that are too blind to see that top talent doesn't need anyone to create a pathway for them.

There is so much broken with the system in the US that it is to the point where we need to scrap the whole thing and replace it with something completely different but I realize that won't happen.


----------



## Socal United (Nov 17, 2017)

Fact said:


> If that is a guess, I think it is pretty good.  I was wondering why Surf would allow Sharks to get ECNL without a fight when they had a monopoly on San Diego for so long.
> 
> Now I wonder how Sharks voted on the issue of letting Surf back into Presidio.


Not a guess


----------



## jpeter (Nov 17, 2017)

Nutmeg said:


> What we have in the US right now is an anti competitive anti competition climate. US Soccer rather than creating a climate of competition with ECNL, SCDSL etc  in our country fractured it with its DA league. The Federations mandate is to facilitate the growth of Soccer for all. Not just the ones that it seems worthy. It has no business operating a puppet regime under the false flags of non profit 501C3 clubs a closed league that disincentives large portions of the country while lining its pockets with cash from the very consumers it is tasked with serving. These clubs like Surf, Rush, etc are essentially corporations that rather than compete with smller market clubs use there leverage and power and to consume them to remove competition from the market place and thus can further artificially inflate club fees, tournament fees, field access, travel and hotel monies and yes even acces to who plays and who doesn’t.  This will continue and has already played out in college sports with mega conferences Like the Power 5 gobbling up Universities to further their geographic footprint and create cable channels Big 10 network, longhorn tv, Pac 12, etc. So far 3 NWSL teams have folded and been absorbed by MLS clubs. NASL is currently suing US Soccer for D2 sanctioning stays that US is denying them.  Small independent clubs FC Cincinnati, NY Cosmos, etc are being forced out of the market place not by consumers or inferior Soccer but by US Soccer denying access to sanctioning them.  The same tactics are seen with youth club Soccer.  This does not grow the game but further erodes local small market clubs the serves the people and players in that community. This is not a conspiracy it’s not fiction, it’s reality, and starts with US Soccer.


Well done, if these merges,  consolidations, affiliations and all these other cross agreements where audited or sanctioned some would not get approved or loose there's status, but it's the wild west, whoever has the bigger or faster guns wins.

#Dos Equis there you have...a former community club taken over by a pusedo corporation run by lawyers and bankers so they can make "no profit".  The like to work for free, no profit motivation at all as a result there continues to be fewer community clubs as the the mega pusedo corps further gobble up the competition and put those to work that helped them with the "conflicts"  of interest.


----------



## chargerfan (Nov 17, 2017)

Socal United said:


> Not a guess




I wonder when sharks parents will hear about this.


----------



## JackZ (Nov 17, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> I wonder when sharks parents will hear about this.


Carlsbad Surf Soccer club incoming! Time to start a new thread?


----------



## Fact (Nov 17, 2017)

Socal United said:


> Not a guess


Please explain.  Is it a done deal? Who will all those anti-Surf Sharks parents hate on now?


----------



## Nutmeg (Nov 17, 2017)

If your Friday is slow start reading up on SUM, Soccer United Marketing. The Gestapo of US Soccer. See how far that arm reaches into the Soccer landscape.


----------



## mirage (Nov 17, 2017)

espola said:


> ......WC is not merging with Surf, they are merging with Surf Cup Sports.


Didn't say they were merging.  It said partnership.  So its not clear at all. 

My guess is that its a takeover and that OCSurf probably sits peer to SD Surf SC, since they own them too under the new structure.  Merging would imply that WC somehow now runs Surf Cup Sports jointly, which probably is not the case.


----------



## mirage (Nov 17, 2017)

I do find all of this sad....

Soon there only will be original and variants of:
Surf
LAG
Strikers
Slammers

Pats looking bit small now.  Real SoCal and FCGS looks small amongst big boys period.

All others are mom and pop shops now...


----------



## Kicker4Life (Nov 17, 2017)

So DA will have 2 Galaxy teams (LAG and LAGSD) and 2 Surf Teams (Surf and Surf OC). ECNL will also have 2 Surf teams if they take over DMCV or will ECNL force them to combine the ECNL teams leaving an opening for another CLUB?


----------



## Multi Sport (Nov 17, 2017)

mirage said:


> I do find all of this sad....
> 
> Soon there only will be original and variants of:
> Surf
> ...


Legends..


----------



## sdb (Nov 17, 2017)

"Surf Cup Sports also *manages the Surf brand* and provides operational support to Surf clubs as well as the benefits of broader relationships with partners that include Nike, Manchester City FC, Soccer.com and many others."

I don't have any particular insight, but if the above is accurate and I'm reading into it correctly, it would seem to be more of a license/franchise of the Surf Brand and some "operational support" in exchange for some sort of consideration ($$$).


----------



## timbuck (Nov 17, 2017)

mirage said:


> I do find all of this sad....
> 
> Soon there only will be original and variants of:
> Surf
> ...


Yep. Who needs SCDSL or State Cup?  
Just have a Surf league, a Galaxy league, a Strikers and a Slammers League.  Set up tournaments among the equally weighted teams from each club.
Charge everyone the same money as now, but reduce all of your costs.


----------



## jpeter (Nov 17, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Yep. Who needs SCDSL or State Cup?
> Just have a Surf league, a Galaxy league, a Strikers and a Slammers League.  Set up tournaments among the equally weighted teams from each club.
> Charge everyone the same money as now, but reduce all of your costs.


Surf West Coast Cup labor day'ish tournament coming soon.... instead of the $1.9k fee we get for Surf cup,  reduced to 1.7k or only about $1k$ more than West Coast Classic was.


----------



## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

jpeter said:


> Surf West Coast Cup labor day'ish tournament coming soon.... instead of the $1.9k fee we get for Surf cup,  reduced to 1.7k or only about $1k$ more than West Coast Classic was.


OC Surf will never give their tournament away !! Largest two day soccer tournament in the United States and directed by two fantastic people !! Love helping them with their event each year.


----------



## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

mirage said:


> The second hand info I got said, WC was sold to Surf.  Not a franchise.  Don't know if true but this makes senses to me as Surf name, I don't think, adds much if any to WC.


I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case. WC pays their staff better then we all get paid in the neiborhood and are probably financially better off then most clubs. I don't think a non-profit club can be bought !!


----------



## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> Maybe everyone needs to put their speculations away.  There are many players, families and coaches whom this will deeply affect.  Time will tell as to the nature of this merger/acquisition/purchase or whatever it is.


Something tells me that OC Surf will be the power house club to work for starting this next season !! Who wouldn't want their child to be part of a club that has all of the necessary pathways for the future growth in the game of soccer.


----------



## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Two much merging...ugh.


The good part about this one is that its not a merger but a partnership with all of the right things needed to build a power house program.
I wish every club success but now I  feel myself looking for a change and join OC Surf both as a players parent and maybe a coach as well.


----------



## Nutmeg (Nov 17, 2017)

Fact said:


> Please explain.  Is it a done deal? Who will all those anti-Surf Sharks parents hate on now?





Futbol Boss said:


> I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case. WC pays their staff better then we all get paid in the neiborhood and are probably financially better off then most clubs. I don't think a non-profit club can be bought !!


This narrative is false. Anything can be bought. The process through which requires more detail than a blog can provide. However all “clubs” are absorbed under the umbrella that is the parent company and run under those guidelines and standards. Essentially making all a franchise of the the parent club Surf.  Even though staff is absorbed they agree to abide by the parents standards. Thus the service fee and advertising fees, etc  are paid from the franchise to the franchor in exchange for use of the overall brand and it’s so called benefits. These fees are the real deal for the parent club. The only ones that actually benefit are the parent, the club DOC, and TD. The losers are the parents, kids, and Soccer community as a whole.


----------



## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

LASTMAN14 said:


> If this is true how will this affect WC DA status? Can one club hold two cards? Which would hold true for ECNL.


Doesn't the Galaxy in San Diego have DA status just like the LA Galaxy? I don't think this will cause any kind of a problem and I'm sure the entire group involved with the decision making of this partnership already got pre-approval from all leagues. Congrats to both SD Surf and OC Surf !!


----------



## Nutmeg (Nov 17, 2017)

Futbol Boss said:


> Something tells me that OC Surf will be the power house club to work for starting this next season !! Who wouldn't want their child to be part of a club that has all of the necessary pathways for the future growth in the game of soccer.





Futbol Boss said:


> Doesn't the Galaxy in San Diego have DA status just like the LA Galaxy? I don't think this will cause any kind of a problem and I'm sure the entire group involved with the decision making of this partnership already got pre-approval from all leagues. Congrats to both SD Surf and OC Surf !!


Congrats you just posted two of the dumbest things I’ve read this week.  Your congrats for less
Competition and the further monopoly of youth soccer is either naive or complicit. The fact that they got the approval to do this is the Fu..... problem.  The “pathway to success” that you mention as a good thing is nothing more than the PR terminology used to manipulate parents into buying into the notion that the only metric of being a successful soccer player is through US Soccer and it’s play to play club model, and it’s narrow definition of success.


----------



## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> Heard all the Surf affiliates will report under the new Surf OC


If I was one of the smaller Surf clubs in OC, I would love to be able to come in under a group that has the pathway for both the DA and ECNL on both the girls and boys side. Doesn't mean they need to tell you how to run your particular program. But a good way to recruit players knowing they have the ability to join a DA or ECNL team.


----------



## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

Nutmeg said:


> Congrats you just posted two of the dumbest things I’ve read this week.  Your congrats for less
> Competition and the further monopoly of youth soccer is either naive or complicit. The fact that they got the approval to do this is the Fu..... problem.  The “pathway to success” that you mention as a good thing is nothing more than the PR terminology used to manipulate parents into buying into the notion that the only metric of being a successful soccer player is through US Soccer and it’s play to play club model, and it’s narrow definition of success.


I am a coach for one of those clubs that would love to be able to give players an option within my club, rather then the Slammers, Blues, OC Surf or Strikers recruiting my players to their organizations.


----------



## Nutmeg (Nov 17, 2017)

Futbol Boss said:


> If I was one of the smaller Surf clubs in OC, I would love to be able to come in under a group that has the pathway for both the DA and ECNL on both the girls and boys side. Doesn't mean they need to tell you how to run your particular program. But a good way to recruit players knowing they have the ability to join a DA or ECNL team.





Futbol Boss said:


> I am a coach for one of those clubs that would love to be able to give players an option within my club, rather then the Slammers, Blues, OC Surf or Strikers recruiting my players to their organizations.


Than I feel your pain. However the option should be that you develope your players and that their opportunities are the same as those within a bigger club, because US Soccer equally values all players and clubs. Your players should not be forced are feel they have to move tonhave a better chance.  The conglomerates who consume competition and devalue your work are not a thing to admire.


----------



## Fact (Nov 17, 2017)

Futbol Boss said:


> I am a coach for one of those clubs that would love to be able to give players an option within my club, rather then the Slammers, Blues, OC Surf or Strikers recruiting my players to their organizations.


I guess they give Kool Aid to the coaches too or Thunderbolt has another alias.


----------



## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

growingpains said:


> While I think Surf is a great organization, it's sad to see the brand being diluted like this - soon it won't mean anything and they're just going to have their own league where their teams just play each other. Did anyone see the full page ad they put out in the soccer.com catalog asking if teams wanted to join the franchise?


I think bringing a power house club like WC and Surf together as partners will change the landscape of soccer in OC. We all know that both the Pats and Strikers could care less about their girls program unlike WC and the Slammers care a little bit about the boys but mainly the girls side. My club could care less about either !!!


----------



## Kicker4Life (Nov 17, 2017)

Futbol Boss said:


> I am a coach for one of those clubs that would love to be able to give players an option within my club, rather then the Slammers, Blues, OC Surf or Strikers recruiting my players to their organizations.


Yah don’t say....but your posts seem to contradict themselves as you are praising Surf OC in one hand but complaining about them recruiting your players in another.  Am I missing something?


----------



## Nutmeg (Nov 17, 2017)

Futbol Boss said:


> I think bringing a power house club like WC and Surf together as partners will change the landscape of soccer in OC. We all know that both the Pats and Strikers could care less about their girls program unlike WC and the Slammers care a little bit about the boys but mainly the girls side. My club could care less about either !!!


Dude are you just trolling with these takes or are you for real. Cause I just started drinking and can’t handle anymore of this until maybe later on tonight.


----------



## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

Nutmeg said:


> Than I feel your pain. However the option should be that you develope your players and that their opportunities are the same as those within a bigger club, because US Soccer equally values all players and clubs. Your players should not be forced are feel they have to move tonhave a better chance.  The conglomerates who consume competition and devalue your work are not a thing to admire.


Thanks !! I wish my BOD would see it like that. They have a different philosophy and say if a parent feels their child is to good for our program then let them leave. Pretty Sad !! They feel that these parents are just a distraction and headache on the sidelines. I wish I had 15 of these headaches on the weekend  !! Drives me nuts to develop a kid and then he takes off.


----------



## El Clasico (Nov 17, 2017)

Futbol Boss said:


> Something tells me that OC Surf will be the power house club to work for starting this next season !! Who wouldn't want their child to be part of a club that has all of the necessary pathways for the future growth in the game of soccer.


If you need someone to chart out a path for you, that generally means that you don't have what it takes to get there.


----------



## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

Kicker4Life said:


> Yah don’t say....but your posts seem to contradict themselves as you are praising Surf OC in one hand but complaining about them recruiting your players in another.  Am I missing something?


I wish every club and every organization success, but knowing some of the coaches in the area, they seem to be pretty down to earth for the most part. I have friends at the Blues, Slammers, etc.... but Surf seems to have did something right to have the WC brand want to switch identities. According to one of my friends WC has been approached by many other clubs to do a merger but turned them all down !!!


----------



## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

El Clasico said:


> If you need someone to chart out a path for you, that generally means that you don't have what it takes to get there.


I wish them the best !!


----------



## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

Not_that_Serious said:


> I thought WC had issue with DA. I know many players in 05 got displaced from flights like dominoes due to the problem.  id hope just changing a jersey wouldnt circumvent unfixed issues


I heard that six players from that age bracket are wanting back at WC. I know because I spent the past three weekends trying to recruit these girls. Oh well, I'm used to it but never give up. My club needs to partner with OC Surf or someone else before we disappear from the map.


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## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

Fact said:


> It is sad to see the era of mega clubs.  IMO West Coast has some of the best coaches around.  I understand why other clubs have become franchises-economies of scale, name brand etc. but not sure what West Coast gets out of this.  With so many A licenses and contacts I would believe that they could have been just as successful at franchising.
> 
> I wonder if this will be set up as one of the standard Surf franchises or whether they hope to poach some coaches?  West  Coast has had a very stable coach base unlike Surf the past few years and could gain a lot having some coaches with great contacts at the Polo Fields.


OC Surf !!! Please hire me if anyone does go south !! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE


----------



## Fact (Nov 17, 2017)

Futbol Boss said:


> OC Surf !!! Please hire me if anyone does go south !! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE


This is pathetic.  I am going to go drink now.


----------



## Deadpoolscores! (Nov 17, 2017)

I wouldn't be surprise if they start hitting the South Bay area soon.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Nov 17, 2017)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> I wouldn't be surprise if they start hitting the South Bay area soon.


Or a little further North where there is another nice set of fields.


----------



## Futbol Boss (Nov 17, 2017)

meatsweats said:


> Well, I guess that explains why GC was at the Surf Gala a few weeks ago.


Who's he ?


----------



## JackZ (Nov 17, 2017)

Futbol Boss said:


> Who's he ?


https://www.westcoastfc.org/about-wcfc/coaching/gus-castaneda (is my guess)


----------



## jose (Nov 17, 2017)

El Clasico said:


> You are so right!! This trend will continue for years to come.  As long as you have middle and upper class parents who continue to drive the revenue stream, there is no way to stop this money grab.  Irony is that the very people who fund this charade are, for the most part, parents with children who will NEVER make it to the big game. Only in Club Soccer do you see people buying into the whole "pathway to something..." bullsh*t.  I have never seen a professional athlete from any sport that I am familiar with that needed someone else to provide them with a pathway to anything. Mostly just people or organizations getting in their way, on their way, to the big leagues.  If there is one thing I have noticed over the years, it is that the unicorns make their own path and do their own thing.  In fact, it is usually all the uptight do gooders screaming "don't be that parent" that are too blind to see that top talent doesn't need anyone to create a pathway for them.
> 
> There is so much broken with the system in the US that it is to the point where we need to scrap the whole thing and replace it with something completely different but I realize that won't happen.


 In any sport only .001 percent 'make it' to the highest level. But that doesn't mean everyone should quit. Play until someone tells you that you are no longer good enough. 
Every sport has a path. It is similar in baseball, basketball, hockey etc. Its travel ball. You play HS (but its because of travel) then if you are great you get drafted. If you are a step below you get to college.  There are thousands of colleges that have baseball programs. It just matters where you fit in.  So that is the path. No kid even knows what any of it means. The parents figure it out and get the kid on the right path. None of those guys are there just because they just showed up.  They all have parents that helped them. I know for a fact.   Soccer is the same.  You have to have youth teams and many of them to create a pool of future players. There has to be competition. Every year the heard gets thinned out and the cream keeps rising. It the players that are talented and dedicated survive the next cut.


----------



## jose (Nov 17, 2017)

El Clasico said:


> If you need someone to chart out a path for you, that generally means that you don't have what it takes to get there.


you don't know what you don't know.  Is it just a natural instinct to wake up and know how to get wherever you are going?  Id be very interested in finding a top level player that just knew. More than likely they got help.


----------



## jose (Nov 17, 2017)

norwegian said:


> “Strength In Unity”???? Sounds like German propaganda circa 1932.


strength and honor....that was Maximus


----------



## Josep (Nov 17, 2017)

Blues next to merge somewhere?


----------



## SocalPapa (Nov 18, 2017)

Futbol Boss said:


> I think bringing a power house club like WC and Surf together as partners will change the landscape of soccer in OC. We all know that both the Pats and Strikers could care less about their girls program unlike WC and the Slammers care a little bit about the boys but mainly the girls side. My club could care less about either !!!


I wouldn't be surprised to see this trigger other mergers in OC.  I don't know how they would work it out on the boys side, but a merger of Pats and Strikers would seem to make sense on the girls side.  Strikers are strong in ECNL but currently thin in the younger ages.  Pats are struggling in girls DA and could benefit from a larger talent pool/budget.  Together I think they might make a good dual DA/ECNL club.  That might leave DPL in a lurch but I doubt that's the Pats' primary concern right now.


----------



## Lambchop (Nov 18, 2017)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> You are right, it isn't the same, it is better.  If the goal is to be better as a nation at soccer, we need more kids playing soccer.  The more kids that play soccer and develop a passion for a game the bigger the pool of talent.
> 
> The people who lament the current state of soccer versus times past are a curious bunch.  Does somehow a kid that isn't great being on "club" soccer somehow diminish what you did 20-25 years ago?   The "lets move everybody that isn't great to rec" angle is stupid.  The kids are having fun.  They are making friends.  They are getting exercise and they are staying out of trouble.  These are wins.  More kids in competitive soccer, not less.


Those kids can do the same with rec soccer and high school soccer.  But hey, lets line the pockets of the big clubs.


Futbol Boss said:


> OC Surf will never give their tournament away !! Largest two day soccer tournament in the United States and directed by two fantastic people !! Love helping them with their event each year.


Texas ????


jose said:


> In any sport only .001 percent 'make it' to the highest level. But that doesn't mean everyone should quit. Play until someone tells you that you are no longer good enough.
> Every sport has a path. It is similar in baseball, basketball, hockey etc. Its travel ball. You play HS (but its because of travel) then if you are great you get drafted. If you are a step below you get to college.  There are thousands of colleges that have baseball programs. It just matters where you fit in.  So that is the path. No kid even knows what any of it means. The parents figure it out and get the kid on the right path. None of those guys are there just because they just showed up.  They all have parents that helped them. I know for a fact.   Soccer is the same.  You have to have youth teams and many of them to create a pool of future players. There has to be competition. Every year the heard gets thinned out and the cream keeps rising. It the players that are talented and dedicated survive the next cut.


So true, but oh so expensive! $$$$$$$$$$$$


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Nov 18, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> Those kids can do the same with rec soccer and high school soccer. But hey, lets line the pockets of the big clubs.


Rec lasts around 3 months.  HS has a limited number of spaces.  So we just write off all the other kids?


----------



## espola (Nov 18, 2017)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Rec lasts around 3 months.  HS has a limited number of spaces.  So we just write off all the other kids?


You can play indoor and futsal all year round.  It's not really the same, but it keeps the skills up.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Nov 18, 2017)

espola said:


> You can play indoor and futsal all year round.  It's not really the same, but it keeps the skills up.


Agreed.  But my major point is more kids playing "club" soccer isn't a bad thing.


----------



## espola (Nov 18, 2017)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Agreed.  But my major point is more kids playing "club" soccer isn't a bad thing.


From my experience, the limitation in Southern California is field space.


----------



## Crazysoccerscene (Nov 18, 2017)

I doubt a Striker/Pats merger would ever be a reality. DE would never relinquish or share control of the Strikers with the Pats. Too much bad blood between the two clubs.


----------



## timbuck (Nov 18, 2017)

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when this deal was made.  What was the sales pitch from either end?  What was the real rea$on?

I'd also love to understand the "real" strategy from Surf.  "Expand our brand and provide great soccer opportunities" is what we hear. But what do the top 2 or 3 people over there really think/want?


----------



## Lambchop (Nov 18, 2017)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Rec lasts around 3 months.  HS has a limited number of spaces.  So we just write off all the other kids?


No, don't write them off.  Take the money you would have spent on club and use it for private training, (skill development, agility and running training) and take them to some professional games, let them watch soccer on TV.  You can do a lot with $1,800. plus!  Keep playing rec particularly at the younger ages, futsal or indoor soccer,  then move into club and high school soccer and if they develop, into ECNL or DA. They will still compete, still make friendships and they can still develop a love of soccer. Maybe clubs should look at a graduated pay/fee schedule.  U8, U9, U10 - $500,  U11, U12, U13 $1,000,  U14, and older $1800.


----------



## jose (Nov 18, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> Those kids can do the same with rec soccer and high school soccer.  But hey, lets line the pockets of the big clubs.
> 
> Texas ????
> 
> So true, but oh so expensive! $$$$$$$$$$$$


Chops tell me what isn't expensive.   Those top players have to play against other top players. The only place to get that here is through club. Steel sharpens steel.


----------



## jose (Nov 18, 2017)

norwegian said:


> “Strength through unity” is the universal motto for Fascists throughout history - the fact that these buffoons thought this was a great title for their press release is friggin hilarious.


its a motto for very many unions. mine included and no we aren't facist.


----------



## espola (Nov 18, 2017)

jose said:


> Chops tell me what isn't expensive.   Those top players have to play against other top players. The only place to get that here is through club. Steel sharpens steel.


Most steel is sharpened with stone, but I get your point.


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## Monkey (Nov 18, 2017)

Futbol Boss said:


> Who's he ?


If you don't know who he is you don't belong coaching there.


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## Monkey (Nov 18, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> No, don't write them off.  Take the money you would have spent on club and use it for private training, (skill development, agility and running training) and take them to some professional games, let them watch soccer on TV.  You can do a lot with $1,800. plus!  Keep playing rec particularly at the younger ages, futsal or indoor soccer,  then move into club and high school soccer and if they develop, into ECNL or DA. They will still compete, still make friendships and they can still develop a love of soccer. Maybe clubs should look at a graduated pay/fee schedule.  U8, U9, U10 - $500,  U11, U12, U13 $1,000,  U14, and older $1800.


Some clubs already have the fee structured on the age and level of play.


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## jose (Nov 18, 2017)

espola said:


> Most steel is sharpened with stone, but I get your point.





espola said:


> Most steel is sharpened with stone, but I get your point.


touche


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## jose (Nov 18, 2017)

espola said:


> Most steel is sharpened with stone, but I get your point.


you go the i should have said steel shapes steel.


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## Lambchop (Nov 18, 2017)

Monkey said:


> Some clubs already have the fee structured on the age and level of play.


Good to know. Which ones and what are the actual fees?


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## Futbol Boss (Nov 19, 2017)

Josep said:


> Blues next to merge somewhere?


Word is they are joining the OC Surf group !!!


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## Deadpoolscores! (Nov 19, 2017)

Futbol Boss said:


> Word is they are joining the OC Surf group !!!


I highly doubt it....Blues will stay Blues unless they are having major issues.


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## Futbol Boss (Nov 19, 2017)

JackZ said:


> https://www.westcoastfc.org/about-wcfc/coaching/gus-castaneda (is my guess)


Oh ..... Not a bad guy, just a little bit balled


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## Futbol Boss (Nov 19, 2017)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> I highly doubt it....Blues will stay Blues unless they are having major issues.


Coaches getting old at the Blues and parents beginning to realize that TB, LD, RR almost retired and the big girl that joined them a few years ago BH they keep only because of her kids being descent players. RD is a cool cat but doesn't really know the game of soccer and the B brothers no one wants to work with. Just a matter of time.


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## SocalPapa (Nov 20, 2017)

Crazysoccerscene said:


> I doubt a Striker/Pats merger would ever be a reality. DE would never relinquish or share control of the Strikers with the Pats. Too much bad blood between the two clubs.


Interesting inside information for your first substantive post on this board. I don't know anything about the leadership of those two clubs.  I just think they complement each other on the girls side.  In the corporate world I've seen many mergers happen between fierce competitors. Sometimes the best interests of the two institutions (given current market conditions) simply compel the merger.


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## Josep (Nov 20, 2017)

SocalPapa said:


> Interesting inside information for your first substantive post on this board. I don't know anything about the leadership of those two clubs.  I just think they complement each other on the girls side.  In the corporate world I've seen many mergers happen between fierce competitors. Sometimes the best interests of the two institutions (given current market conditions) simply compel the merger.


I would only expect this to ever happen if AR retires, which will be never.  Don’t see this merge happening.  Would see Blues going in with Pats first, which is still extremely unlikely.


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## timbuck (Nov 20, 2017)

AR from strikers?  He may not have a choice.  They only had 3 or 4 teams last year.  
If anything, oc strikers and at least MV strikers should come together.


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## Josep (Nov 20, 2017)

timbuck said:


> AR from strikers?  He may not have a choice.  They only had 3 or 4 teams last year.
> If anything, oc strikers and at least MV strikers should come together.



Yes in a couple of years. His 02s and 03s are his  last decent teams I think.  CB, DR, and PA leaving and taking their teams was crippling.


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## mirage (Nov 20, 2017)

Josep said:


> I would only expect this to ever happen if AR retires, which will be never.  Don’t see this merge happening.  Would see Blues going in with Pats first, which is still extremely unlikely.


Couple of things to share about Irvine Strikers and Pats, for those who are relatively new to their background.

JS used to be at Strikers under DE in the 90s. JS left for Pats - they are friends and friendly competitors today.  Both clubs mainly focused on boys side until they realized girls parents actually pay and pay on time.

When Laguna Hills Eclips merged with Strikers, AR and NP was given the whole girls side to manage.  But DE didn't need both AR and NP so NP left for Pats and is running girls side of DA under TC.

So Pats has DA boys and girls, Strikers has DA boys and ECNL girls.  The 3~4 Strikers OC teams in SCDSL is just the reserves for ECNL.

So far so good?  Based on the above, the likelihood of Pats and Strikers merging is very small because neither will give up their own club names and would have to give up one of the boys DA programs.  Will not happen (this is different than franchises having DAs like LAGSD and LAG given their lack of proximity and different ownership, whereas Pats-Strikers would have to be a merge because both have recognizable national names and the personalities involved).  As a side note, Pats and Slammers had a handshake for merge 4~5 years ago but the club name was the sticking point and fell a part.  Some of the forum old timers should remember that...

Onto OC Blues.  They are out there and interesting for someone to approach.  They are nationally know so it will take quite an effort to merge them.  They have no need to live under other brand name.  As for their coaches, the only one I know is RD, who is the head coach at Vanguard University mens and women's programs and the coach of the year for their conference.  Both mens and women teams are in NAIA nationals currently. My guess, is they will survive just fine as is.


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## ChipShot (Nov 20, 2017)

A Beach-Strikers mergers could make sense. It would give Beach a presence in OC and finally give them ECNL (maybe to little to late). Strikers would get the lifeline they need and AR might be able to continue to run the OC program. Obviously this is complete speculation but from the outside it would appear both clubs have something that would benefit the other.


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## RedNevilles (Nov 20, 2017)

ChipShot said:


> A Beach-Strikers mergers could make sense. It would give Beach a presence in OC and finally give them ECNL (maybe to little to late). Strikers would get the lifeline they need and AR might be able to continue to run the OC program. Obviously this is complete speculation but from the outside it would appear both clubs have something that would benefit the other.


Beach do not need ECNL for the girls now as they have DA, which could potentially help strikers struggling girls and strikers having a DA boys side could help Beach, even though Beach have Boys ECNL. 

I could never see beach and strikers merging though as they both have their own identities and I'm sure neither would want to give up name or power


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## timbuck (Nov 20, 2017)

RedNevilles said:


> Beach do not need ECNL for the girls now as they have DA, which could potentially help strikers struggling girls and strikers having a DA boys side could help Beach, even though Beach have Boys ECNL.
> 
> I could never see beach and strikers merging though as they both have their own identities and I'm sure neither would want to give up name or power


Would you have ever thought that West Coast would become Surf?


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## RedNevilles (Nov 20, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Would you have ever thought that West Coast would become Surf?


But that also has to do with $$$ which of the two would approach the other as to a buyout??


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## Nextbigthing (Nov 20, 2017)

How does Blues survive in this climate of consolidation and mergers.  They simply don't have the numbers to survive the no Fee DA!  Blues has no affiliates and no money to support these high level teams unless blues coaches can convince parents to pay for haphazard development........at the flight 3 level like these other clubs are doing......


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## JackZ (Nov 20, 2017)

The WC parent meeting was today, have only heard tidbits from a friend.  Was interesting to hear that OC Surf will apply for more boys DA levels other then U12 that WC currently has, potentially as an affiliate of Orange County SC. BOD of WC remains unchanged and will work under the full time staff of Surf Cup Sports. Several mentions of it being being a partnership.

Maybe someone who was there can chime in some more?


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## Josep (Nov 21, 2017)

Nextbigthing said:


> How does Blues survive in this climate of consolidation and mergers.  They simply don't have the numbers to survive the no Fee DA!  Blues has no affiliates and no money to support these high level teams unless blues coaches can convince parents to pay for haphazard development........at the flight 3 level like these other clubs are doing......


They survive because those parents drink the kool aid and they like the neon uniforms.  You didn’t see a rush of kids fleeing Blues to run over to free Pats DA.  The ECNL kids at blues who will never make the surpreme team could have taken the free DA.  Same with the ecnl kids at the other age groups.   That says one of 3 things; stay at blues at all costs because it’s Nirvana, DA isn’t worth leaving for, or Pats isn’t worth leaving for, or perhaps a combo of all three.


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## RedNevilles (Nov 21, 2017)

Josep said:


> They survive because those parents drink the kool aid and they like the neon uniforms.  You didn’t see a rush of kids fleeing Blues to run over to free Pats DA.  The ECNL kids at blues who will never make the surpreme team could have taken the free DA.  Same with the ecnl kids at the other age groups.   That says one of 3 things; stay at blues at all costs because it’s Nirvana, DA isn’t worth leaving for, or Pats isn’t worth leaving for, or perhaps a combo of all three.


Blues also have DA, just not free. So the answer must be pats is not worth leaving for


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## transplant (Nov 22, 2017)

Nextbigthing said:


> How does Blues survive in this climate of consolidation and mergers.  They simply don't have the numbers to survive the no Fee DA!  Blues has no affiliates and no money to support these high level teams unless blues coaches can convince parents to pay for haphazard development........at the flight 3 level like these other clubs are doing......


I a guessing it is Blues Cup that really keeps the club financially solvent.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Nov 22, 2017)

transplant said:


> I a guessing it is Blues Cup that really keeps the club financially solvent.


Maybe...all I know it's a high priced tournament for younger teams.


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## Futbol Boss (Feb 14, 2018)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> I highly doubt it....Blues will stay Blues unless they are having major issues.


A bird sang that the OC Surf group and the So Cal Blues have reached a mutual agreement to build the best girls club in the U.S.
Who will be next ? I would think that maybe its just parents gossiping, but I just happened to be sitting at a table at a local Starbucks and over heard a Blues coach telling another Blues coach about the merger. This could be the power house club of century !!


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## Futbol Boss (Feb 14, 2018)

ChipShot said:


> A Beach-Strikers mergers could make sense. It would give Beach a presence in OC and finally give them ECNL (maybe to little to late). Strikers would get the lifeline they need and AR might be able to continue to run the OC program. Obviously this is complete speculation but from the outside it would appear both clubs have something that would benefit the other.


Word is AR is leaving Orange County and California very soon for a job in Florida !!  Anyone know if this is true ?


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## Not_that_Serious (Feb 14, 2018)

Odd that i keep seeing kids selling discount cards as West Coast. I bust the kids' chops about telling them to sell cards as Surf OC.

Can merge but still to have to retain the customers.


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## jose (Feb 15, 2018)

Futbol Boss said:


> A bird sang that the OC Surf group and the So Cal Blues have reached a mutual agreement to build the best girls club in the U.S.
> Who will be next ? I would think that maybe its just parents gossiping, but I just happened to be sitting at a table at a local Starbucks and over heard a Blues coach telling another Blues coach about the merger. This could be the power house club of century !!


"West Coast So.Cal OC Surf Blues" has a nice ring to it


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## Real Deal (Feb 15, 2018)

I wonder if US Soccer would have anything to say about these mergers?  So basically that'd be 3 close-by DAs coming out of one club *if* that were to happen???

(3 ECNL teams as well...)


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## Not_that_Serious (Feb 15, 2018)

was told part of the issue was fields. also another aspect had to do with DA playing restrictions.

as previously mentioned to someone, ive seen the issue with field space fold clubs.


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## Not_that_Serious (Feb 15, 2018)

Real Deal said:


> I wonder if US Soccer would have anything to say about these mergers?  So basically that'd be 3 DAs coming out of one club if that were to happen???


us soccer cares more about the money and getting kids into mls teams. not getting into club business


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## timbuck (Feb 15, 2018)

I heard rumor of Blues-Strikers thing. Blues is all girls. Strikers is mostly boys but wants to get better with girls teams.  
Makes a little more sense for this to happen then a blues/Surf/west Coast thing.


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## Not_that_Serious (Feb 15, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I heard rumor of Blues-Strikers thing. Blues is all girls. Strikers is mostly boys but wants to get better with girls teams.
> Makes a little more sense for this to happen then a blues/Surf/west Coast thing.


hear only girls as well. part of the problem is what we heard during the us soccer election -restricting DA kid ability to play outside DA.  so it might make sense depending on how they structure. just hate the known independent brands getting swallowed up by the big clubs


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## Hired Gun (Feb 15, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I heard rumor of Blues-Strikers thing. Blues is all girls. Strikers is mostly boys but wants to get better with girls teams.
> Makes a little more sense for this to happen then a blues/Surf/west Coast thing.


This makes a lot more sense than Blues West Coast... I don't think West Coast would merge twice in 6 months... If they wanted to merge with Blues to make a mega power why merge with Surf in the first place....


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