# We Don't Need More Athletes



## oh canada (Feb 6, 2020)

Ok, I like to be somewhat provocative with my post titles.  But, with a little hyperbole there is also a lot of truth in what I'm about to write.  I'm starting to agree with many of my academic colleagues who razz me all the time because I have 3 kids playing sports.  They say, "This country of HUGE opportunity for both boys and girls doesn't need any more entertainers."  And as @MWN often rightly points out, athletes are entertainers.  There is a place for sport and art and other entertainment, but 2020 Americans are lionizing sports to such an extent that academics, intelligence, innovation and scientific thought are beginning to pale in comparison. 

I have to admit that I see this occurring at the upper education levels to a greater extent each year.  So many more kids are spending so much more time on the athletic fields and courts that how they think and what they think about, what they do and how they solve problems, lacks complexity and diversity of thought.  The childhood experiences we are committing our kids to are not intellectually stimulating nor thought provoking.  They have benefits--e.g., physical work, socialization, competition.  But, that can all be gained through sports participation a few hours per week.  My esteemed colleagues go on, "Can you imagine some of the phenomenal things your kids could learn and later do if you spent the sporting 10-15 hours per week with them building rockets, solving math equations, coding, starting an online business, cooking, writing a book, etc.?"  I think they have a point.

I meet a lot of really intelligent kids with potential to do some really impactful things, but because they have been kept on a single sports track, they don't recognize the layers of their brilliance.  They only see themselves as good soccer players (or pick your sport) and envision their future only on the pitch.  It's always been that way here (and in Canada), we love our TVs, sports, movies and music, but what's changed is the scale.  How many ESPN networks are there now and how many daily shows are on all those networks.  Why do we need 8 sports anchors sitting around a table telling us what's going to happen in the game we are about to watch?  Why do our kids need to play a single sport year round, 5+/days per week?  How did this change so drastically in one generation of kids?  

I participate with admissions reviews.  Can I tell you how many applications I read that look identical, except for the name at the top?  Better than average grades and test scores, some charity work handing out food to the homeless, and a long line of awards and achievements in one sport.  Talk about cookie cutter.   
Scott McNealy--founder of Sun Microsystems (sold to Oracle for $7 Billion some years ago) famously said, "The guy serving you food at a golf tournament is in so many ways doing more good and moving the capitalist ball forward than Tiger Woods."  My first reaction to that was, "gimme a break," but after letting it digest, you know what, there is truth to that.   If you are an entertainer, it's counterproductive from the standpoint that people stop doing anything and just sit and watch entertainers.

In much of the World, boys and girls turn to sports because that is their only way out of poverty, out of the barrio, out of the same life that all of their friends and relatives have had for generations.  But that is not 21st Century USA/Canada.  The glass ceilings are being broken, the poverty levels are rising (much higher than the rest of the world), and the education levels are growing.  We have women CEOs running some of the largest companies in the World, 20-somethings becoming 9-figure tycoons from garage-inspired ideas, and diverse research teams finding new cures for diseases at the most rapid pace ever.  Yes, Rapinoe et al. are trying to get more money for female soccer players, but that's a blip on the radar of impact.

I don't mean this to be a rant on youth sport, but if you have a kid that seems to excel in academics, problem-solving, etc., or enjoys the exercise of thought just as much as their body, please help them see themselves as something more than just another athlete.  Because we can all benefit from another Jeff Bezos a lot more than another Tiger Woods.


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## Grace T. (Feb 6, 2020)

The admissions reviews all look the same because that's what the colleges are telling parents is what they want.  It's why you also see the fake charities.  If you want to change the single sport obsession (not to mention the pay-or-play system), you'd have to change the way college admissions and scholarships work.  It doesn't work that way in Europe BTW-- students are tracked from an early age and put on specific tracks (whether a specific academic, art or sport).

What you want to produce also dictates how you reform the college system.  If it's industrial leaders and innovators, then college (at least as currently structured) is a waste of time for many of them.  If it's STEM, then you probably need to be selective about that because not everyone is capable of it...my son goes to an intense elementary school and those on the STEM/Ivy track put in as much hard work as the Academy soccer players (getting shipped off to CLC and Kumon for hours on end after school).  If it's professionals and middle managers, then you'd want to get rid of the graduate schools and just put kids directly into the track at university like they do in Europe (it shouldn't take 7 years to produce a lawyer and 10 to produce a doctor).


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## outside! (Feb 6, 2020)

My only comment is I would pick another Elon Musk over another Jeff Bezos.


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## mirage (Feb 6, 2020)

oh canada said:


> ......There is a place for sport and art and other entertainment, but 2020 Americans are lionizing sports to such an extent that academics, intelligence, innovation and scientific thought are beginning to pale in comparison.
> 
> ........My esteemed colleagues go on, "Can you imagine some of the phenomenal things your kids could learn and later do if you spent the sporting 10-15 hours per week with them building rockets, solving math equations, coding, starting an online business, cooking, writing a book, etc.?"...
> 
> I don't mean this to be a rant on youth sport, but if you have a kid that seems to excel in academics, problem-solving, etc., or enjoys the exercise of thought just as much as their body, please help them see themselves as something more than just another athlete.  Because we can all benefit from another Jeff Bezos a lot more than another Tiger Woods.


Is this some type of survey to see what the reaction of people are?  Or is this some type of joke????

Frankly, it is written completely from academic perspective and without regards to the real world.  While the arguments read like combined citations from case studies and some academic "what if's", its completely misses the facts about our country and people.

Our society creates more entrepreneurs and develop innovations (and inventions too) than any other.  There are those that like to say that other countries are doing better than us but just go look at who holds the top companies in the world in terms of innovation, best place to work, market cap and so on.  Its all American companies.

As for our kids spending more time on academics, well, the fact is they do both.  To be successful, academic education is just one component of many.  Others, like competitiveness, teamwork, empathy and so on - both hard and soft skills - are often learned by doing, such as sports.

About the only thing I agree with your post is that you probably do read admission essays that are template like.  Students are told to study for standard tests, write certain way and taught to use formulas.  The lack of originality and creativity is not sports vs academic issue.  Its an issue with our educational system.

As you've express that you like to have provocative titles, I like to finish with one.  I call this BS.


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## Mic Nificent (Feb 6, 2020)

To each his/her own. I view sports as a tool,fun, activity etc., not the end all be all. Some people only push sports on their kid, some only education and sadly some don’t even care. Who are we to say how it should be for everyone else? I just hope my kids are happy, productive and compassionate people who can take care of themselves and their own family (if they choose to have one) once I am no longer here.


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## myself (Feb 6, 2020)

oh canada said:


> Ok, I like to be somewhat provocative with my post titles.  But, with a little hyperbole there is also a lot of truth in what I'm about to write.  I'm starting to agree with many of my academic colleagues who razz me all the time because I have 3 kids playing sports.  They say, "This country of HUGE opportunity for both boys and girls doesn't need any more entertainers."  And as @MWN often rightly points out, athletes are entertainers.  There is a place for sport and art and other entertainment, but 2020 Americans are lionizing sports to such an extent that academics, intelligence, innovation and scientific thought are beginning to pale in comparison.
> 
> I have to admit that I see this occurring at the upper education levels to a greater extent each year.  So many more kids are spending so much more time on the athletic fields and courts that how they think and what they think about, what they do and how they solve problems, lacks complexity and diversity of thought.  The childhood experiences we are committing our kids to are not intellectually stimulating nor thought provoking.  They have benefits--e.g., physical work, socialization, competition.  But, that can all be gained through sports participation a few hours per week.  My esteemed colleagues go on, "Can you imagine some of the phenomenal things your kids could learn and later do if you spent the sporting 10-15 hours per week with them building rockets, solving math equations, coding, starting an online business, cooking, writing a book, etc.?"  I think they have a point.
> 
> ...


>They say, "This country of HUGE opportunity for both boys and girls doesn't need any more entertainers."

Assuming that the goal of the participants is to be a professional entertainer.

> but 2020 Americans are lionizing sports to such an extent that academics, intelligence, innovation and scientific thought are beginning to pale in comparison.

Gonna need a citation here. Or is this just your opinion? And aren't you in Canada?

>"Can you imagine some of the phenomenal things your kids could learn and later do if you spent the sporting 10-15 hours per week with them building rockets, solving math equations, coding, starting an online business, cooking, writing a book, etc.?"

People who like rocketry, math, coding, and writing think more people should be interested in rocketry, math, coding and writing. Ok...

> In much of the World, boys and girls turn to sports because that is their only way out of poverty, out of the barrio, out of the same life that all of their friends and relatives have had for generations.  But that is not 21st Century USA/Canada.

Sorry this sounds like the original justification for the amateur system in sports. That the "distinguished" should be participating in sport out of principle, not because of a pay check. Also, it's a major tell on your social class or those of your co-workers; "Sports is for the poors!"


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## oh canada (Feb 6, 2020)

this is my bottom-line point to take away...

_if you have a kid that seems to excel in academics, problem-solving, etc., or enjoys the exercise of thought just as much as their body, please help them see themselves as something more than just another athlete. _


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## LASTMAN14 (Feb 6, 2020)

oh canada said:


> Ok, I like to be somewhat provocative with my post titles.  But, with a little hyperbole there is also a lot of truth in what I'm about to write.  I'm starting to agree with many of my academic colleagues who razz me all the time because I have 3 kids playing sports.  They say, "This country of HUGE opportunity for both boys and girls doesn't need any more entertainers."  And as @MWN often rightly points out, athletes are entertainers.  There is a place for sport and art and other entertainment, but 2020 Americans are lionizing sports to such an extent that academics, intelligence, innovation and scientific thought are beginning to pale in comparison.
> 
> I have to admit that I see this occurring at the upper education levels to a greater extent each year.  So many more kids are spending so much more time on the athletic fields and courts that how they think and what they think about, what they do and how they solve problems, lacks complexity and diversity of thought.  The childhood experiences we are committing our kids to are not intellectually stimulating nor thought provoking.  They have benefits--e.g., physical work, socialization, competition.  But, that can all be gained through sports participation a few hours per week.  My esteemed colleagues go on, "Can you imagine some of the phenomenal things your kids could learn and later do if you spent the sporting 10-15 hours per week with them building rockets, solving math equations, coding, starting an online business, cooking, writing a book, etc.?"  I think they have a point.
> 
> ...


Question(s) for my clarification of this post. 1A) Your esteemed colleagues, did they play sports? 1B) How many played sports? 1C) How many in total were involved in their dialogue with you? 2A) Do any of them have children? 2B) How many of them have children playing sports?

PS-I do like the nature of this post. Its thought provoking.


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## blam (Feb 6, 2020)

oh canada said:


> "This country of HUGE opportunity for both boys and girls doesn't need any more entertainers."


We live in a capitalist economy. This means it is the job of us to work hard to help the capitalists make money. The capitalists sit back and get a bite of the profit that we the workers help to make. They give us some crumbs so that we can take home and feed our children. Once we hit 65 and have knee issues, we are tossed aside. It is true. We do not need anymore entertainers. We need more workers to help the capitalists create wealth!


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## LMULions (Feb 7, 2020)

I don't disagree with that last statement.  But to the original point, I think it's important that our kids become well-rounded persons. I think our schools are already removing PE and open lunch playing time at an alarming rate.  Yes, when in class, spend time focusing on learning and education. But that shouldn't be an all-day exercise at a young age, or any age.  They need PE and open play-time to be physically fit, to learn social aspects of maturation. Not every kid is an athlete, just not like every kid is going to excel at coding or science.

My vote is for well-rounded. And in support of that I'd like to see less of a focus on single-sports at such a young age.  There is so much new evidence that kids benefit physically and psychologically from being involved in multiple sports - and not focusing on a single sport until much later on.


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## Grace T. (Feb 7, 2020)

LMULions said:


> I don't disagree with that last statement.  But to the original point, I think it's important that our kids become well-rounded persons. I think our schools are already removing PE and open lunch playing time at an alarming rate.  Yes, when in class, spend time focusing on learning and education. But that shouldn't be an all-day exercise at a young age, or any age.  They need PE and open play-time to be physically fit, to learn social aspects of maturation. Not every kid is an athlete, just not like every kid is going to excel at coding or science.
> 
> My vote is for well-rounded. And in support of that I'd like to see less of a focus on single-sports at such a young age.  There is so much new evidence that kids benefit physically and psychologically from being involved in multiple sports - and not focusing on a single sport until much later on.



The PE thing is worse in Cali.  According to the LA Times yesterday or the day before, Gov. Newsom is considering abolishing physical fitness testing because it leads to bullying, and it forces kids to make a binary declaration of male or female.

The single-sports thing is not going to be solved until you draw a firm line that says in all sports, Academy/Olympic track is limited only to future pros and unicorns and everyone else plays rec (which like in the UK and Spain, can be tiered).  Because otherwise you have a trickle down dynamic that works through the system.  You saw it in action with Luis Andres: some parent has or thinks he has a unicorn, pushes other parents to additional training, complains about kids who don't wrecking the team chances, other teams have to do it too to keep up, now the weaker players looking to move up a level have to do it too, the rest of the lower team has to do it to avoid getting cut, then that teams' competitors too have to do it to keep up.  It's the same in solitary sports: little Billy gets a private trainer, little Billy wins the track race, other competitors have to do the same to compete.


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## Simisoccerfan (Feb 7, 2020)

A couple of points.  First the obsession with a single sport is paying for my dd's education where she is majoring in Health Sciences to be either a Physician's Assistant or a Nurse.   It also allowed me to switch my funds to help pay for my other two college age kids.  She was an IB student with a 4.2 gpa and also a valedictorian in HS so I don't know how she could have done better.  I would venture to say her focus and commitment to her sport taught her to be an even better student.   Second the world does not need more Jeff Bezos (or Tiger Woods).  What the world needs is more two parent families and less divorce.    Who cares that he is the CEO of Amazon, instead i think of him as the guy who cheated on his wife and left his 4 kids.  PS money does not buy you happiness!


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## oh canada (Feb 7, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Question(s) for my clarification of this post. 1A) Your esteemed colleagues, did they play sports? 1B) How many played sports? 1C) How many in total were involved in their dialogue with you? 2A) Do any of them have children? 2B) How many of them have children playing sports?
> 
> PS-I do like the nature of this post. Its thought provoking.


"esteemed" colleagues (read with some sarcasm) did all play sports of some kind.  One woman played D1 tennis, others various sports through high school but none to the extent that kids now play.  

About half have kids of their own and most of those kids are playing sports, but not single-sport, year-round.

We are just seeing more and more kids sliding down the sports funnel to the exclusion of everything else.  For some reason, there is a misconception that it is easier to get a sports scholarship than a merit-based scholarship.  Not true.  In addition, when 100% of your time outside the classroom is spent doing one thing, surrounded by other like-minded kids also spending all of their time doing that same thing, and they all have parents who are hyper-focused on the same, you can see how diversity of interests and thought becomes scarce.

Appreciate your PS.


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## dad4 (Feb 7, 2020)

Pay to play sports for scholarship is a bad bargain.  Spend 4k per year for 12 years and then hope you get a partial scholarship?

48k is already a pretty good scholarship.  Just put it in a 529.  It will cover most of the cost of 2 years CC plus 2 years instate tuition.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't play the sports you love, but remember why you are doing it.


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## Simisoccerfan (Feb 7, 2020)

We are just seeing more and more kids sliding down the sports funnel to the exclusion of everything else. 

I call BS on this statement.  It requires dedication and hard work to excel at a sport.   This carries over into the academic and real world.   Most top youth athletes that I know have excellent grades and are very bright and focused on the academic studies.  You are picking the wrong fight.  Instead go after the 80% of students with lower grades, playing no sports, not fit, that watch too much tv and play too much video games.   Sports teaches kids so many life applicable skills.


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## Frank (Feb 7, 2020)

blam said:


> We live in a capitalist economy. This means it is the job of us to work hard to help the capitalists make money. The capitalists sit back and get a bite of the profit that we the workers help to make. They give us some crumbs so that we can take home and feed our children. Once we hit 65 and have knee issues, we are tossed aside. It is true. We do not need anymore entertainers. We need more workers to help the capitalists create wealth!


So happy to be in a capitalist republic.


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## socalkdg (Feb 7, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Pay to play sports for scholarship is a bad bargain.  Spend 4k per year for 12 years and then hope you get a partial scholarship?
> 
> 48k is already a pretty good scholarship.  Just put it in a 529.  It will cover most of the cost of 2 years CC plus 2 years instate tuition.
> 
> Doesn't mean you shouldn't play the sports you love, but remember why you are doing it.


Drop it to $1500 per year for 8 years.  Anything above that is on the parent.  People spend more than that on coffee.


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## LMULions (Feb 7, 2020)

I don't have statistics to back it up, and I know its a broad generalization, but my guess is that on the girl's side most of the very best students are really good athletes in one or more sports.  Maybe more boys focus in on sports to the exclusion of academics because of the possibility of being a professional athlete - where girls generally don't have that option.

There may be some truth to that for some small percentage of boys - and my bet is that it is less than ever before with how empty the ballparks and basketball courts are on the weekends around where I live. And even less accurate for girls.


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## oh canada (Feb 7, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> We are just seeing more and more kids sliding down the sports funnel to the exclusion of everything else.
> 
> I call BS on this statement.  It requires dedication and hard work to excel at a sport.   This carries over into the academic and real world.   Most top youth athletes that I know have excellent grades and are very bright and focused on the academic studies.  You are picking the wrong fight.  Instead go after the 80% of students with lower grades, playing no sports, not fit, that watch too much tv and play too much video games.   Sports teaches kids so many life applicable skills.


In the classrooms every week.

I think you're missing the point...try this little experiment...ask high school aged club-level athletes (male and female) what they're thinking in terms of career goals.  In my discussions, a much higher percentage now (vs. 30 years ago) say "pro athlete".  Like you say, many of them are excellent students who could use their intelligence for a host of impactful and rewarding career opportunities beyond sports.  But because they have been only identified as a "soccer player" (or pick your sport) from such an early age and by so many around them, they struggle to see themselves as anything else but.  When the sport ends, they can have an identity crisis.  Worse yet, depression, etc.


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## espola (Feb 7, 2020)

oh canada said:


> In the classrooms every week.
> 
> I think you're missing the point...try this little experiment...ask high school aged club-level athletes (male and female) what they're thinking in terms of career goals.  In my discussions, a much higher percentage now (vs. 30 years ago) say "pro athlete".  Like you say, many of them are excellent students who could use their intelligence for a host of impactful and rewarding career opportunities beyond sports.  But because they have been only identified as a "soccer player" (or pick your sport) from such an early age and by so many around them, they struggle to see themselves as anything else but.  When the sport ends, they can have an identity crisis.  Worse yet, depression, etc.
> 
> View attachment 6357


Where is football?  Basketball?

And for any meaning, there also should be data for "no sports".


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## dad4 (Feb 7, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Drop it to $1500 per year for 8 years.  Anything above that is on the parent.  People spend more than that on coffee.


Where did you find a good program for 1500 per year?   We spend that just on summer camps.

Whoever it is, list their name.  They deserve the free advertising.


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## Grace T. (Feb 7, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Where did you find a good program for 1500 per year?   We spend that just on summer camps.
> 
> Whoever it is, list their name.  They deserve the free advertising.



That's around the cost (or less) of many AYSO United Programs.  But it depends what you mean by "good":  they have a tendency to punch over their weight if winning is your thing but you have (mostly YMMV) volunteer coaches, 1 tournament, fields they piggy back off of regular AYSO, and no DA.


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## Simisoccerfan (Feb 7, 2020)

oh canada said:


> In the classrooms every week.
> 
> I think you're missing the point...try this little experiment...ask high school aged club-level athletes (male and female) what they're thinking in terms of career goals.  In my discussions, a much higher percentage now (vs. 30 years ago) say "pro athlete".  Like you say, many of them are excellent students who could use their intelligence for a host of impactful and rewarding career opportunities beyond sports.  But because they have been only identified as a "soccer player" (or pick your sport) from such an early age and by so many around them, they struggle to see themselves as anything else but.  When the sport ends, they can have an identity crisis.  Worse yet, depression, etc.
> 
> View attachment 6357


I just read a study of several hundred thousand college students that said 41.1% of college students had moderate to severe depression.   You can't post data above with putting it into proper perspective.   This would seem to imply that participating in sports helps fight off depression.


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## Soccerhelper (Feb 7, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> I just read a study of several hundred thousand college students that said 41.1% of college students had moderate to severe depression.   You can't post data above with putting it into proper perspective.   This would seem to imply that participating in sports helps fight off depression.


I need to chime in here.  Depression is so huge in college most parents are blind to it because most of them crammed college down their kids throats. Add "have to be a soccer stud" to it and double the stress and potential for depression.  Plus, kid has to be perfect!  My son got denied his first rush to a frat house.  He was 100% sad.  He said he only tried to join because he is lonely and bored.  College life is hard for some.  I told my son to screw that frat house and find some real friends.  True friendships take time and one should never have to pay to have friends   Frats cost money too.....


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## Sheriff Joe (Feb 8, 2020)

blam said:


> We live in a capitalist economy. This means it is the job of us to work hard to help the capitalists make money. The capitalists sit back and get a bite of the profit that we the workers help to make. They give us some crumbs so that we can take home and feed our children. Once we hit 65 and have knee issues, we are tossed aside. It is true. We do not need anymore entertainers. We need more workers to help the capitalists create wealth!


Thanks Bernie.


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## Sheriff Joe (Feb 8, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> I just read a study of several hundred thousand college students that said 41.1% of college students had moderate to severe depression.   You can't post data above with putting it into proper perspective.   This would seem to imply that participating in sports helps fight off depression.


Was that study done between 2008 and 2016?


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## espola (Feb 8, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Was that study done between 2008 and 2016?


This is a serious discussion.  Go drop your turds somewhere else.


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## socalkdg (Feb 8, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Where did you find a good program for 1500 per year?   We spend that just on summer camps.
> 
> Whoever it is, list their name.  They deserve the free advertising.


Play for Milan/Empoli Red.  05 girls.  $900 per year.  Included uniforms, CSL, 2 tourneys, lighted fields in Corona, and National  cup.  18 girls on the team.  Just finished fund raising to pay for SCNPL for spring and two more tourneys.  Without fund raising would have been another $200 per kid.


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## focomoso (Feb 10, 2020)

oh canada said:


> They say, "This country of HUGE opportunity for both boys and girls doesn't need any more entertainers."  And as @MWN often rightly points out, athletes are entertainers.  There is a place for sport and art and other entertainment, but 2020 Americans are lionizing sports to such an extent that academics, intelligence, innovation and scientific thought are beginning to pale in comparison.


Here's what your friends (and you?) are missing. In a generation or two, there will be only entertainers. As more and more work is pushed off to automated systems, the only work that will provide value is what other people enjoy. This includes art, entertainment and sports. When AI can do math better than humans (not far off), being good at math won't be very useful except for math olympians. Same with engineering, science and finance. It used to be that you could make a good living as a reasonably competent scientist / engineer / financier, but all of these industries are headed for a dramatic reduction in importance. The mid-level will disappear and only people making a living will be the people who can build and maintain the AI itself. After that, all that's left are artists, sportspeople, celebrities and "leaders". So, if you really want to prepare your kids for the future, take them out of traditional schools and get them into an arts or sports program.


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## G07KeeperMom (Feb 10, 2020)

oh canada said:


> In the classrooms every week.
> 
> I think you're missing the point...try this little experiment...ask high school aged club-level athletes (male and female) what they're thinking in terms of career goals.  In my discussions, a much higher percentage now (vs. 30 years ago) say "pro athlete".  Like you say, many of them are excellent students who could use their intelligence for a host of impactful and rewarding career opportunities beyond sports.  But because they have been only identified as a "soccer player" (or pick your sport) from such an early age and by so many around them, they struggle to see themselves as anything else but.  When the sport ends, they can have an identity crisis.  Worse yet, depression, etc.


Okay, in my opinion, the answer to what you're suggesting  has nothing to do with an emphasis on sports and everything to do with parenting.  Parents should provide perspective.   How many times have you heard a child say they want to be a "YouTuber"?!   My 10 year old son tried to tell me that once or twice and my response was "..that is not a CAREER, kid!"  You can try that as a hobby if you want, but after YouTube dies, what are you REALLY going to do with your life?   I talk to my kids about things like this all the time, because so often when I ask other kids what they want to be these days, they say "I don't know", and that makes me sad.  What happened to the days when kids had plans and dreams?! 

I talk to my kids about what I see as their strengths/talents all the time...things they can use to contribute to this world.  My son is a talker!   I joke with him all the time that we have to find a way to monetize that!  That is his unique talent!  He's also bright, but man, the kid can talk himself out of any situation!   He may be a future lawyer, businessman or real estate broker!   He also loves little kids, so maybe a pediatrician (so you can help them feel less tense about going to see the doctor).  I give my kids ideas on what they can do IN ADDITION to sports or "you tubing" (ha!) - one of them is bound to spark an interest eventually!

Same with my daughter who says she wants to play soccer professionally - AWESOME!  But what about that strong and curious mind of yours?   That mind was not given to you JUST for soccer!  ...you could do a lot of good in the world with it!  It would be a waste not to!  So as of now, her plan is to be a Professional Soccer player _and_ a Neurologist.  Excellent!!!   

I'm sure their career goals will change/evolve just like mine did as I got older, but I will always ask them to reach for an academic/professional goal in addition to their soccer/entertainment goals...because it's always good to have a strong backup plan.

That said, my kids get SO MUCH benefit from sports that will one day help them in a professional setting as well.  They have learned to listen and translate instruction into action; they have learned teamwork and how to manage difficult personalities; they have learned to set goals for themselves and work to achieve them; they have felt the satisfaction from achievement and to truly believe that their work will get them there; they have learned how to be organized so they can keep up with it all their activities; they have learned how to process failure, learn from it and try again; they have learned to communicate with Coaches/adults and present themselves with confidence.   They have learned SO many lessons that you just can't get out of a book/class!   For now, their dream includes sports, and that's okay...because I see first hand, it is such a healthy outlet outside of academics and it isn't as much competing with their academic lives and pursuits, as it is ultimately enhancing it.


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## Grace T. (Feb 10, 2020)

focomoso said:


> Here's what your friends (and you?) are missing. In a generation or two, there will be only entertainers. As more and more work is pushed off to automated systems, the only work that will provide value is what other people enjoy. This includes art, entertainment and sports. When AI can do math better than humans (not far off), being good at math won't be very useful except for math olympians. Same with engineering, science and finance. It used to be that you could make a good living as a reasonably competent scientist / engineer / financier, but all of these industries are headed for a dramatic reduction in importance. The mid-level will disappear and only people making a living will be the people who can build and maintain the AI itself. After that, all that's left are artists, sportspeople, celebrities and "leaders". So, if you really want to prepare your kids for the future, take them out of traditional schools and get them into an arts or sports program.



Agree generally but slight amendment.  It's not entertainment which is the key trait in the future but creativity.  There isn't going to be a need for an attorney who can do a by the numbers incorporation, but there will be for creative thinkers on trusts and estates.  Less of a need for doctors that can handle routine things like conjunctivitis, lots though for those that can do complex surgeries, disease research, or cancer treatments.  Less of a need for math crunchers, but plenty for creative programmers.   Less of a need for stock brokers, but plenty for complex algorithm developers.  There's still quite a bit on the bottom end (still need nurses aids for example to clean the bed pans), and a lot on the high end, but less in the middle.

So translating to soccer, if the goal is to use soccer as a tool for developing adults (like KeeperMom argues), as opposed to getting a national team or sending as many upper middle class kids to college as possible, then it would be critical to develop creative thinking skills and creative play in soccer plays, and to avoid joy sticking at all costs.  But that's not how soccer is set up in the US, and it's certainly not the way our public schools are set up (which are increasingly concerned with conformity and comity instead of critical thinking).  That's also BTW why I think kids are drawn to videogames, youtube, and for our kids soccer....it's a vehicle to develop that creativity (which kids enjoy) where they aren't otherwise getting it in school.


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## focomoso (Feb 10, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Agree generally but slight amendment.  It's not entertainment which is the key trait in the future but creativity.  There isn't going to be a need for an attorney who can do a by the numbers incorporation, but there will be for creative thinkers on trusts and estates.  Less of a need for doctors that can handle routine things like conjunctivitis, lots though for those that can do complex surgeries, disease research, or cancer treatments.  Less of a need for math crunchers, but plenty for creative programmers.   Less of a need for stock brokers, but plenty for complex algorithm developers.  There's still quite a bit on the bottom end (still need nurses aids for example to clean the bed pans), and a lot on the high end, but less in the middle.
> 
> So translating to soccer, if the goal is to use soccer as a tool for developing adults (like KeeperMom argues), as opposed to getting a national team or sending as many upper middle class kids to college as possible, then it would be critical to develop creative thinking skills and creative play in soccer plays, and to avoid joy sticking at all costs.  But that's not how soccer is set up in the US, and it's certainly not the way our public schools are set up (which are increasingly concerned with conformity and comity instead of critical thinking).  That's also BTW why I think kids are drawn to videogames, youtube, and for our kids soccer....it's a vehicle to develop that creativity (which kids enjoy) where they aren't otherwise getting it in school.


I also agree, generally, but even creative fields that aren't ingested by humans will eventually go. Complex surgeries will be performed better by robots than humans. Disease research and cancer treatment will be automated. Even creative programmers (my current field) will fall away because who needs a person to develop a complex algorithm when you can train an AI to solve the problem with a neural network? 

The only thing that I can see resisting this, at least for a while, is human ingested content. It will be a while before an AI can write music or paint a picture without at least the guidance of a human (though, of course, computers make the processes easier). And in the very long term, the only thing that will resist this is human achievement. I suspect that in the end, the only thing people will do is recreation and competition.


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