# AYSO United?



## Grace T. (Jan 17, 2018)

Anyone have any info on how the AYSO United program is doing?  I met a senior doing the AYSO United program as part of my college interviews.   She had stepped down from a tier 1 team to focus on her academics, but she still wanted to play soccer while she could.  She told me some stuff I knew: that AYSO United is moving down the age groups, replacing the Extras programs at earlier ages; the United coaches, even though volunteers, are pretty experienced, often being parents that have played, and more experienced than some club coaches I've met; they play in tournaments against regular club teams.  But she told me as well that United Teams aren't just competing in leagues against other United Teams, but also in silver and bronze level club leagues.  That surprised me...I wasn't aware...I hadn't seen any United or Extras teams in the littles games I reffed nor in the leagues my son played.  And while they have reciprocity with the coaching licenses, that reciprocity doesn't always run smooth (since there is some discretion involved) and in the leagues IIUC the AYSO players would have to go through the same age verification standards as the club players including carding.  She told me too that some of the United Teams are holding their own on the silver level.  That surprised me too...in tournaments the United/Extras Teams I've encountered are generally eaten up  even by the middling bronze club teams.  Any one (particularly the refs out there) seen the United teams play against the club teams?  Is this really wide spread?  Are they competitive?  How are they doing?   I was under the impression that they generally just played each other, but apparently not.

I'm interested in keeping apprised because if my DS hits high school several years from now and decides he wants to do the academic route, instead of committing himself to GKing, but wants to keep playing soccer (yet not go into the mess that is upper age AYSO rec ball) if this might be an option for him to continue playing (assuming he has no aspirations of playing in college or achieving a high level).


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## Soccer43 (Jan 17, 2018)

It may be an alternative for AYSO when players want to step up a level and play in a competitive environment but don't  believe the smoke and mirrors.  In our region the coaches are not skilled or experienced.  In fact they are pretty bad and doing a disservice to the players that should be in a regular club with skilled professional coaches.  The teams are playing in the regular leagues but often in brackets with each other at a low level.   It is still just recreational but in a competitive environment where winning is valued but I don't see them really making a statement.


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## zebrafish (Jan 17, 2018)

I, for one, look forward to United spreading across SoCal.

I think it will put downward pressure on continuously rising club fees. I also think it provides a check to the hubris of these clubs. What I mean by this is the following-- in the balance between the priorities of the player versus the organization, AYSO has always leaned more towards the individual player. Clubs lean way towards the organization as the priority/winner (think of what you sign every year for your club-- "the club comes first...").

IMHO, there are good and bad club coaches. There are good and bad United coaches. There are good and bad AYSO Rec coaches. You can't paint them all with the same brush. The banner under which they coach doesn't define their ability.

I've seen United teams playing at multiple tournaments. They haven't stood out as any different from the other teams competing.

I welcome their participation. If the clubs are so good at what they do, they will have nothing to fear...


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## zebrafish (Jan 17, 2018)

United, by the way, is moving into Orange County...

_The three clubs are as follows: United South OC, which will be located in the Laguna Hills area; United Central OC, which will be located in the Irvine, Tustin area; and United Pacific, which will be located in the Long Beach, Los Alamitos area._

http://aysounited.org/2017/11/15/ayso-united-expands-in-orange-county/


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## zebrafish (Jan 17, 2018)

Ha! They apparently already are forming teams in OC.
Plans to play in the CSL...


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## younothat (Jan 17, 2018)

For the 1st year http://aysounited.org/our-clubs/
Chapters playin in CSL, all under United.... U15/03's seems like the oldest ages for most but SC goes to 99' so maybe if there is enough demand?

Some did better than other at the bronze level; 66- 78-16 to 88- 52- 22 for example but a couple of chapters like SC went silver+
https://coastsoccer.us/web/coastsoccer/clubs?YEAR=2017&CLUB=981


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## Toch (Jan 17, 2018)

I’ve seen some AYSO teams touching the ball and moving around at the local tournaments. Keep in mind that Club is very watered down


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## smellycleats (Jan 17, 2018)

Grace T. said:


> Anyone have any info on how the AYSO United program is doing?  I met a senior doing the AYSO United program as part of my college interviews.   She had stepped down from a tier 1 team to focus on her academics, but she still wanted to play soccer while she could.  She told me some stuff I knew: that AYSO United is moving down the age groups, replacing the Extras programs at earlier ages; the United coaches, even though volunteers, are pretty experienced, often being parents that have played, and more experienced than some club coaches I've met; they play in tournaments against regular club teams.  But she told me as well that United Teams aren't just competing in leagues against other United Teams, but also in silver and bronze level club leagues.  That surprised me...I wasn't aware...I hadn't seen any United or Extras teams in the littles games I reffed nor in the leagues my son played.  And while they have reciprocity with the coaching licenses, that reciprocity doesn't always run smooth (since there is some discretion involved) and in the leagues IIUC the AYSO players would have to go through the same age verification standards as the club players including carding.  She told me too that some of the United Teams are holding their own on the silver level.  That surprised me too...in tournaments the United/Extras Teams I've encountered are generally eaten up  even by the middling bronze club teams.  Any one (particularly the refs out there) seen the United teams play against the club teams?  Is this really wide spread?  Are they competitive?  How are they doing?   I was under the impression that they generally just played each other, but apparently not.
> 
> I'm interested in keeping apprised because if my DS hits high school several years from now and decides he wants to do the academic route, instead of committing himself to GKing, but wants to keep playing soccer (yet not go into the mess that is upper age AYSO rec ball) if this might be an option for him to continue playing (assuming he has no aspirations of playing in college or achieving a high level).


One of my daughters played on a United team, CSL Silver. We played league with other clubs in our area and did well. Parent coach was a former player. We trained two days and on a third day had a trainer who was a coach at another club. Fees for the year-around 800$, not including kit. Had its ups and downs but overall a good experience.


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## Grace T. (Jan 17, 2018)

zebrafish said:


> I, for one, look forward to United spreading across SoCal.
> 
> I think it will put downward pressure on continuously rising club fees. I also think it provides a check to the hubris of these clubs. What I mean by this is the following-- in the balance between the priorities of the player versus the organization, AYSO has always leaned more towards the individual player. Clubs lean way towards the organization as the priority/winner (think of what you sign every year for your club-- "the club comes first...").
> 
> ...



With so much club consolidation around, it's probably a good thing that it gives others teams to play with (rather than the C & D teams of the mega clubs always having to go up against each other).    I agree this is something to look forward to, and coaching quality should get even better as more and more parents that played have children move the AYSO ranks.


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## skillz91745 (Jan 18, 2018)

I believe haciendaunitedsoccer (on instagram) is part of AYSO United. In fact the coach for this soccer team is affiliated with the L.A Galaxy

https://www.lagalaxy.com/players/armando-guzman


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## Soccer43 (Jan 18, 2018)

So will these new AYSO club teams continue to get an advantage with playing fields because they are with a "non profit"?  Are you all aware that AYSO gets priority access and cheap deals with fields when other clubs have to scramble and pay high fees for fields?  Maybe if clubs had to pay a minimal  amount for field space their fees would be less.  Also, as I mentioned, I was talking  about our region where the coaches are not good, have acquired the basic required license but have done nothing to upgrade their skills or coaching approach and their teams are not doing well.  Like with all club soccer, do your research.


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## soloyosh (Jan 18, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> So will these new AYSO club teams continue to get an advantage with playing fields because they are with a "non profit"?


Aren't most clubs 501c3?


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## smellycleats (Jan 18, 2018)

soloyosh said:


> Aren't most clubs 501c3?


Yes


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## soloyosh (Jan 18, 2018)

smellycleats said:


> Yes


So I am not sure I understand the "non-profit" post above.  Does AYSO get some sort of preferential treatment for fields/facilities?

I know in our city it is based on the size of your group.  I can see how AYSO might have larger participation than a typical club.


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## coachrefparent (Jan 18, 2018)

soloyosh said:


> So I am not sure I understand the "non-profit" post above.  Does AYSO get some sort of preferential treatment for fields/facilities?
> 
> I know in our city it is based on the size of your group.  I can see how AYSO might have larger participation than a typical club.


There's  a difference  between non profit, and all volunteer. My understanding  is AYSO is the latter.

Non profit just means the entity has no net revenue by the end of the year. This is accompished by paying its workers what's left over. An entity can be non profit, but the directors and coaches can make plenty of $$. 

All volunteer means everyone works for free.


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## soloyosh (Jan 18, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> There's  a difference  between non profit, and all volunteer. My understanding  is AYSO is the latter.
> 
> Non profit just means the entity has no net revenue by the end of the year. This is accompished by paying its workers what's left over. An entity can be non profit, but the directors and coaches can make plenty of $$.
> 
> All volunteer means everyone works for free.


I understand that.  Just trying to figure out what the field allocation and use rate differences between AYSO and a club.  I have never seen anything other than Tax ID required for a non-profit on a field use agreement.  I am wondering if other cities further differentiate...


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## coachsamy (Jan 18, 2018)

AYSO is sitting on over 80 million dollars! Their executives make over 6 digits while everyone else is a volunteer. At ;east regular clubs use their money to pay a director (Whether he/she does their job is another topic) that is expected to have a direct impact to the child. 

The day soccer in the US stop being a capitalist business, that will be the day that true talent development will happen.

http://990finder.foundationcenter.org/990results.aspx?action=Find&fn=&st=CA&ei=956205398


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## soloyosh (Jan 18, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> AYSO is sitting on over 80 million dollars! Their executives make over 6 digits while everyone else is a volunteer. At ;east regular clubs use their money to pay a director (Whether he/she does their job is another topic) that is expected to have a direct impact to the child.
> 
> The day soccer in the US stop being a capitalist business, that will be the day that true talent development will happen.
> 
> http://990finder.foundationcenter.org/990results.aspx?action=Find&fn=&st=CA&ei=956205398


I think we are getting a bit off topic here but aren't all the clubs that develop talent overseas for-profit businesses?


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## coachsamy (Jan 18, 2018)

soloyosh said:


> I think we are getting a bit off topic here but aren't all the clubs that develop talent overseas for-profit businesses?



Yes and no, as it is a different model. Their model is to invest on players that will sell for a profit, in the US is to provide a recreational environment with a false promise of reaching the pot at the end of the rainbow with the ones on top getting the benefits of the profits. 

My personal view is that AYSO has enough money to invest on quality field facilities at most of their regions.


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## Grace T. (Jan 18, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> My personal view is that AYSO has enough money to invest on quality field facilities at most of their regions.


Since they don't spend the money on salaries, one of the things AYSO does is pour the money into field development.  In our area and our neighboring area, AYSO for example transformed some underdeveloped fields into play areas complete with lighting (which is the one element you really need to run a large organization's soccer practices).  They generally do this by entering into agreements with the local park and rec.  The local park and rec gets to new fields and some of the maintenance costs off their books.  AYSO gets a preference but not exclusive use over those fields.


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## fotos4u2 (Jan 18, 2018)

While I don't have any experience with United myself, we do know a lot of players who have played in the program over the years (I believe our area may have been one of the first to start it) and it seems like a good option for the lower level player.  If your kid is only good enough to play on the C or D team on a big club why not do United and pay way less in fees?  Especially kids who don't want to step down to rec, but want a bit more flexibility than a lot of clubs give.  

Looking at the rosters of the age groups we know, I'm seeing players who we've known or played with in club.  Most of those were benchwarmers on the "A-team" or maybe starters on their B or C team.

That being said, my only issue with United is that coaches are almost always parents and all the possible problems that come with that.


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## smellycleats (Jan 18, 2018)

fotos4u2 said:


> While I don't have any experience with United myself, we do know a lot of players who have played in the program over the years (I believe our area may have been one of the first to start it) and it seems like a good option for the lower level player.  If your kid is only good enough to play on the C or D team on a big club why not do United and pay way less in fees?  Especially kids who don't want to step down to rec, but want a bit more flexibility than a lot of clubs give.
> 
> Looking at the rosters of the age groups we know, I'm seeing players who we've known or played with in club.  Most of those were benchwarmers on the "A-team" or maybe starters on their B or C team.
> 
> That being said, my only issue with United is that coaches are almost always parents and all the possible problems that come with that.


I agree with that. Its the main reason that we left and returned to a club setting. The training was good, good enough for our needs at the time, but daddy ball is daddy ball. There’s just no way around that.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Jan 18, 2018)

fotos4u2 said:


> While I don't have any experience with United myself, we do know a lot of players who have played in the program over the years (I believe our area may have been one of the first to start it) and it seems like a good option for the lower level player.  If your kid is only good enough to play on the C or D team on a big club why not do United and pay way less in fees?  Especially kids who don't want to step down to rec, but want a bit more flexibility than a lot of clubs give.
> 
> Looking at the rosters of the age groups we know, I'm seeing players who we've known or played with in club.  Most of those were benchwarmers on the "A-team" or maybe starters on their B or C team.
> 
> That being said, my only issue with United is that coaches are almost always parents and all the possible problems that come with that.


Seems like different United Regions have different prices. Central United charges approximately $1500 for ulittles but the dessert Area United Charges roughly $500. So I wouldn't be surprise if the OC United would be close to $2k for the ulittles.


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## Soccer43 (Jan 18, 2018)

In many regions, don't know about all, AYSO gets preferential access to fields that are not available to other soccer teams/clubs ( the smaller clubs that provide great training and nice coaches)
and at a pretty cheap price - it is not fair and equitable with other soccer organizations.

Also, if all coaches are still volunteer and fields are minimal cost why is United charging $800 plus ?


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## Grace T. (Jan 18, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> In many regions, don't know about all, AYSO gets preferential access to fields that are not available to other soccer teams/clubs ( the smaller clubs that provide great training and nice coaches)
> and at a pretty cheap price - it is not fair and equitable with other soccer organizations.
> 
> Also, if all coaches are still volunteer and fields are minimal cost why is United charging $800 plus ?


I blinked at that number too.  In our area the fees are $600 and $550 respectively.  The variance may be because some United clubs bring in trainers (field and goalkeeper) to work with the players once a week on individual skills, and those guys get paid.  Some include tournament fees, but some don't.  There's the ref fee, the league fee, but also an "AYSO Club Fee" which presumably is the amount the state and national entity takes in.  They also may not get a break in the field rentals...it depends on the deal they've made with P&R which in turn is usually dependent on how much redevelopment AYSO does on the fields and how much maintenance they take on not to mention political connections....in our 3rd neighboring area, AYSO neither has dedicated fields nor gets preferential treatment, and in fact uses some of the school fields in our home AYSO region.


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## Not_that_Serious (Jan 18, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> In many regions, don't know about all, AYSO gets preferential access to fields that are not available to other soccer teams/clubs ( the smaller clubs that provide great training and nice coaches)
> and at a pretty cheap price - it is not fair and equitable with other soccer organizations.
> 
> Also, if all coaches are still volunteer and fields are minimal cost why is United charging $800 plus ?


Some guy, with a big ego,  in South OC uses AYSO to get the break on the fields from the city. He then added club and switches name of club every year - needs to get the best value. He changed the name (for marketing) of the rec side but still AYSO.  So club gets primo fields and the guy is the exec director,  manager of all teams, assistant coach on all teams and coach of 4 teams - not listed as coach of one team but is the guy yelling from the bench every game. No one performs that many jobs at a club -but a good way for no one to see how you manage the paperwork and money. So might be volunteer on the AYSO side but making the $ on the club side.  The coaching isnt better but the club prices are the same.  In many parts of South OC AYSO has fallen apart due to politics and coaching quality. Some people also abuse what AYSO can get you from an administrative point of view.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Jan 18, 2018)

Grace T. said:


> I blinked at that number too.  In our area the fees are $600 and $550 respectively.  The variance may be because some United clubs bring in trainers (field and goalkeeper) to work with the players once a week on individual skills, and those guys get paid.  Some include tournament fees, but some don't.  There's the ref fee, the league fee, but also an "AYSO Club Fee" which presumably is the amount the state and national entity takes in.  They also may not get a break in the field rentals...it depends on the deal they've made with P&R which in turn is usually dependent on how much redevelopment AYSO does on the fields and how much maintenance they take on not to mention political connections....in our 3rd neighboring area, AYSO neither has dedicated fields nor gets preferential treatment, and in fact uses some of the school fields in our home AYSO region.


As far as I know the coaches in Central United do get paid especially the DOC that came from NOMADS. I know a few of the coaches and there not there to volunteer which also came from the OC. Seem like other regions have it good then.


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## Fact (Jan 18, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Some guy, with a big ego,  in South OC uses AYSO to get the break on the fields from the city. He then added club and switches name of club every year - needs to get the best value. He changed the name (for marketing) of the rec side but still AYSO.  So club gets primo fields and the guy is the exec director,  manager of all teams, assistant coach on all teams and coach of 4 teams - not listed as coach of one team but is the guy yelling from the bench every game. No one performs that many jobs at a club -but a good way for no one to see how you manage the paperwork and money. So might be volunteer on the AYSO side but making the $ on the club side.  The coaching isnt better but the club prices are the same.  In many parts of South OC AYSO has fallen apart due to politics and coaching quality. Some people also abuse what AYSO can get you from an administrative point of view.


Report him to the City.


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## Not_that_Serious (Jan 18, 2018)

Fact said:


> Report him to the City.


Im sure they know, but might be worth sending off a note. But the dude is known by everyone around - refs, coaches, etc. Real Douche. I told the guy he sounds like a used car salesman, but found out I wasnt far off. Insurance Salesman, but not the helpful kind.  Only people out of the loop are parents and poor kids who get short end of the stick. The kids wont improve. Sad part is he can feed the club side by pushing them into Signature and eventually into Club. So can keep the system going. People like this do eventually get into an argument with the wrong person or piss off the wrong parent.


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## jrcaesar (Jan 18, 2018)

Regions are moving complete Extra teams into the United program in addition to looking for players. Not all are mom-coached, but worth reminding that even those AYSO Advanced coaches (minimum for Extra) = 3 different weekends of training to earn that rank.


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## Grace T. (Jan 18, 2018)

jrcaesar said:


> Regions are moving complete Extra teams into the United program in addition to looking for players. Not all are mom-coached, but worth reminding that even those AYSO Advanced coaches (minimum for Extra) = 3 different weekends of training to earn that rank.


I'd also add that in comparison to the new E-equivalent grassroots license (2 hours class/2 hours field/some online stuff) the AYSO Core coaching program (let alone the AYSO Advanced coaching) is just so much more intensive.  It's possible the requirements now for AYSO United far exceeds regular club entry-level training, though I hope US Soccer may put some restrictions on the Grassroots coaches (licensed only provisionally, rec only, or under the supervision of a higher license).


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## jrcaesar (Jan 18, 2018)

I'm not advocating for or against United other than it's a better choice than a Slammers or Beach 3rd or 4th team when factoring all things in (costs, coaches, atmosphere).


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## Soccer43 (Jan 18, 2018)

The coach training isn't necessarily the issue but the attitude - AYSO has traditionally been about fun and equal play time for all and have been critical about kids leaving to play in club.  Now they are in the club circuit and it's about winning and charging high fees like the other clubs.  What happened to the AYSO way?


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## timbuck (Jan 18, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> The coach training isn't necessarily the issue but the attitude - AYSO has traditionally been about fun and equal play time for all and have been critical about kids leaving to play in club.  Now they are in the club circuit and it's about winning and charging high fees like the other clubs.  What happened to the AYSO way?


I said this in a prior post months ago-  but when clubs started offering up multiple teams in Flight 3, the clubs started dipping into the AYSO pond. This is just aysos way of responding.
Yes, the fees are more. But you gotta pay more to player under Cal-South and Coast. And you gotta pay referees.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Jan 19, 2018)

jrcaesar said:


> Regions are moving complete Extra teams into the United program in addition to looking for players. Not all are mom-coached, but worth reminding that even those AYSO Advanced coaches (minimum for Extra) = 3 different weekends of training to earn that rank.


jr you forgot one thing everyone passes...but I do agree that the length of training is good.


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## ItsCalledSoccer (Jan 26, 2018)

As someone involved in the AYSO United program, I feel the need to respond here. Yes the club is moving into Orange County, replacing Pacific Soccer Club (the old AYSO club). In Orange County at least, they have some decent teams who will be playing at Silver level next year. Yes the coaches are all professional coaches, in the South Orange County one anyway. The fees are around $1500, but I think for teams who don't have a professional coach (two sessions a week plus weekend games) and have a parent doing it, it goes down a lot. It is still amusing to hear the opponents parents whisper "Its ok, they're an AYSO team" and then see the looks on their faces when they are 3-0/4-0 down.

With regards to the 'AYSO way', the teams are encouraged to maintain the core philosophies, so rosters are small and players get at least 50% of every game.

Overall, I think AYSO just wants to keep its players. So many club programs are propped up by players who come from AYSO, so why not provide a club program for them and keep them in the club? Its still young as a club and I'm sure there are different problems in different parts around SoCal, but it's a very good option to have and we are pleased it is around!


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## Soccer43 (Jan 26, 2018)

Call it what you want but it is a money grab by an organization that had always prided itself on taking the moral high ground , "for the children"


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## ItsCalledSoccer (Jan 26, 2018)

Like I said, I'm sure the program is viewed differently in different areas, but down here in South Orange County, we are happy with it. The program is definitely focused on the children and their individual development first.


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## ItsCalledSoccer (Jan 26, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Some guy, with a big ego,  in South OC uses AYSO to get the break on the fields from the city. He then added club and switches name of club every year - needs to get the best value. He changed the name (for marketing) of the rec side but still AYSO.  So club gets primo fields and the guy is the exec director,  manager of all teams, assistant coach on all teams and coach of 4 teams - not listed as coach of one team but is the guy yelling from the bench every game. No one performs that many jobs at a club -but a good way for no one to see how you manage the paperwork and money. So might be volunteer on the AYSO side but making the $ on the club side.  The coaching isnt better but the club prices are the same.  In many parts of South OC AYSO has fallen apart due to politics and coaching quality. Some people also abuse what AYSO can get you from an administrative point of view.


This guy is involved in AYSO in South Orange County? Not at AYSO United though surely?


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## Not_that_Serious (Jan 26, 2018)

ItsCalledSoccer said:


> This guy is involved in AYSO in South Orange County? Not at AYSO United though surely?


Ayso not ayso united since guy makes money charging more money via bigger club names.


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## MWN (Jan 27, 2018)

skillz91745 said:


> I believe haciendaunitedsoccer (on instagram) is part of AYSO United. In fact the coach for this soccer team is affiliated with the L.A Galaxy
> 
> https://www.lagalaxy.com/players/armando-guzman


The United name does not mean AYSO (e.g. Temecula United is not an AYSO club, but Cal South).  The two AYSO affiliated programs that play against Cal South and US Club teams are Matrix and AYSO United.


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## MWN (Jan 27, 2018)

Last year I spoke to the "corporate" guys at AYSO HQ who were looking for fields.   The subject of AYSO United came up.   My understanding of the company line at that time was that AYSO's base mission is to make "soccer available to all."  Their recreational/core programs have grown and flourished under their volunteer model, but they were losing advanced players who were underserved.  

AYSO recognized that their model of all volunteers had flaws when it came to higher level play and training ... the Dads and Moms simply were not equipped.  After years of watching kids leave the program to play club soccer (including the kids of the guys I spoke too), AYSO came to the conclusion that their current programs did not adequately serve a class of their members and their "Extra" program wasn't cutting it, therefore, an actual "club" program that still adhered to the AYSO principals was needed.  The "Matrix" programs were a regional response, but AYSO National made the decision to create a competitive program that would compete against the "Club" teams in various regions against US Youth Soccer and US Club Soccer affiliates.

The claim that AYSO is abandoning their principals is a little unfair.  Competing in Cal South and the affiliated leagues is far more costly than AYSO's rec model.  Referees need to be paid, tournaments are not free, competition level fields need to be secured, coaches paid, etc.  Charging the AYSO United parents fees to cover these costs is abundantly fair.  What you won't have with the AYSO United model is a DOC pulling down $155k+, which should help the program keep its fees on the lower side.

AYSO United teams still maintains the AYSO 50% play rule.

Note, my kids have never played in the AYSO program, so I'm not a homer.


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## Soccer43 (Jan 27, 2018)

I am confused about why AYSO  has to get into the club scene and compete there?  Why can't they do what they do best and if girls want to play competiively and leave for club so what?  They are not in it for profit so what does it matter if girls leave AYSO for club?


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## ItsCalledSoccer (Jan 27, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> I am confused about why AYSO  has to get into the club scene and compete there?  Why can't they do what they do best and if girls want to play competiively and leave for club so what?  They are not in it for profit so what does it matter if girls leave AYSO for club?


They want to provide soccer for all. As players improve, they leave. In fact, whole teams leave for club. So why not keep them in the AYSO family and allow them to stay together and compete at a higher level. Just because it is non-profit, doesn't mean they aren't allowed to try and grow their program, make more money, and therefore provide more for their teams.

I'm hearing reports that the AYSO regions will be receiving free clinics, from the professional coaches, to the Extra or core level players in certain areas. This is affordable by the revenue made from AYSO United. I personally think its a great move from AYSO and should help keep the costs of club down.


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## Soccer43 (Jan 27, 2018)

But again, why is AYSO focused on "making more money".  Also, how is AYSO charging the same club fees keeping club costs down ?  I didn't think any if this was the goal of AYSO.  Seems like you have something in this game to make this out to look good .


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## ItsCalledSoccer (Jan 27, 2018)

Clearly I don't have all the answers, but they want to maintain their players. What's wrong with that? I assume that having more players, especially at club level, will create more revenue and help them grow the organisation. I guess AYSO has to change and be flexible to adapt to the market. Their fees were very competitive with other offers we had seen. We're happy to stay and happy with the package provided, yes.


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## SC310 (Jan 27, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> I am confused about why AYSO  has to get into the club scene and compete there?  Why can't they do what they do best and if girls want to play competiively and leave for club so what?  They are not in it for profit so what does it matter if girls leave AYSO for club?


Ayso is a business like all other clubs. 501c3 or not, Ayso has decided to offer the continuum of programs due to the market demands.

IMO, if they do it right, they have the upper hand, because most kids start in ayso. If they can produce quality teams and attract competent coaches they will garner their share of the club market.


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## MWN (Jan 27, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> I am confused about why AYSO  has to get into the club scene and compete there?  Why can't they do what they do best and if girls want to play competiively and leave for club so what?  They are not in it for profit so what does it matter if girls leave AYSO for club?


@Soccer43, the mission statement of AYSO arguably requires AYSO to offer a "club" tier within their program.  (see, http://www.ayso.org/aboutayso/mission.htm#.Wm157KinE2w)

AYSO's Vision is to provide world class youth soccer programs that enrich children's lives.

AYSO's Mission is to develop and deliver quality youth soccer programs which promote a fun, family environment based on AYSO's Six Philosophies:

Everyone Plays®
Balanced Teams
Open Registration
Positive Coaching
Good Sportsmanship
Player Development
Because most teams in the "club scene" violate a basic tenet of AYSO, which is everybody plays at least 50% of the game, AYSO would be violating its "Vision" and "Mission" if it didn't offer a competitive program to offer a choice for those that value the AYSO philosophies. 

The fact that AYSO is a "non-profit" just like every single Cal South Club doesn't mean anything.  Non-profits, like AYSO, believe their mission is important and are going to do everything they can to fulfill their mission.  Every club from Surf, Slammers, Strikers, Eagles, Arsenal, or any of the other 100's of clubs basically believes the same thing ... "We do it better."   I say good for them.   Let's see how this thing plays out.


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## zebrafish (Jan 28, 2018)

There is this recurrent opinion I see made about 50% playing time being this "ridiculous" feature of the AYSO.

Are there really a lot of club teams out there where players don't play half the game over a sustained period of time? Really?

I have to say that I can't imagine paying $2000+ and spending all the time/effort (both mine and my kid's) for them to play a sport where they rode the bench. My kid is on the younger side and there are clearly the "best" and "worst" players on the team, but I guess I have an understanding that the "worst" kids are going to get field time if the goal is to develop all the players. The "worst" may not start, but they play. For a properly selected team, should there really be a situation where players are so weak in relation to their teammates that they don't play?

Fortunately, my kid has not been among the "worst" on a team. But I also feel like due diligence as a parent would make me avoid a situation where my kid was "an outlier" either on the top side or the bottom side of the player pool.

Yikes.


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## MWN (Jan 28, 2018)

zebrafish said:


> There is this recurrent opinion I see made about 50% playing time being this "ridiculous" feature of the AYSO.
> 
> Are there really a lot of club teams out there where players don't play half the game over a sustained period of time? Really?
> 
> ...


@zebrafish, once you get to the "olders" level (U14 and above), the leagues implement substitution rules that prevent players who come off from returning that half.  Some like CRL, NPL and ECNL adopt the FIFA "7 rule" (no more than 7 substitutions) at U15+, and the USSDA adopts the FIFA 5 rule at the older age groups.  What this means is the bench players often only get 5 to 10 minutes in garbage time to no time for teams at the higher levels. 

At the younger ages, unlimited substitutions is the norm.  Finally, its not a matter of players being so weak as not to play, rather, the pressure on the clubs/coaches to win is so high that clubs view "practices" as true development time and "games" as simply competitions designed to demonstrate development that occurred during practices.

My personal view is this is "youth soccer."  Let the kids play and abolish all substitution rules except for those teams that play internationally (US National Teams).  I seen kids quit teams and soccer because they are Flight 1 bench players and believe Flight 2 is beneath them.  Their ego gets in the way of development and fun.


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## jrcaesar (Jan 28, 2018)

Good overview from @MWN. To add what I know from the AYSO side: Part of why Extra started (I've heard) was to keep soccer families in the AYSO program. The best coach volunteers leave when their children move to club, so giving them a program keeps soccer-first families around. (Good for the referee program, especially.) I presume this is part of the push to build AYSO United, to help the local regions.


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## Grace T. (Jan 28, 2018)

jrcaesar said:


> To add what I know from the AYSO side: Part of why Extra started (I've heard) was to keep soccer families in the AYSO program. The best coach volunteers leave when their children move to club, so giving them a program keeps soccer-first families around. (Good for the referee program, especially.) I presume this is part of the push to build AYSO United, to help the local regions.


Yeah, but if some United programs are paying their coaches the push eventually will be for an all-paid system...the volunteer parents will look over at the next region and ask "why aren't I being compensated for my time".  Moreover, with the AYSO curriculum and US Soccer curriculum diverging so much, if things keep going the way they are going (which in turn depends on the election), I can't imagine licensing reciprocity lasts very much longer, particularly as the clubs begin to complain about AYSO moving into their space.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Jan 29, 2018)

By creating AYSO United. AYSO is effectively promoting that it doesn't have the faith and belief in it's core program that it promotes to its Regions. If AYSO clearly focused on what it has the best opportunity to succeed in, it would dominate the Recreational Market share and not be losing players at such an exponential rate to the various organizations it currently bleeds to. Almost every Club player starts in Rec. Focus on where the numbers are to make the biggest impact to the game Nationally and stop half assing an area you will always come second in.


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## Eagle33 (Jan 29, 2018)

Do any one of you really think AYSO United started to support core AYSO values? Stop kidding yourselves.
Little history....in England Rec programs run by volunteers and supported by cities and sponsors, so there is no money in youth soccer there, unless it's an academy of course. Those programs called Grassroots and fully sanctioned by FA, however there is no money in it. The money is here, in US, so all those English guys who didn't want to do it for free in England, not to mention they were not good enough to coach in academy, figured out that money is to be made in States. That was years ago and many of them came and started coaching clubs. Right now the new generation of coaches, figured out another way to make money - AYSO United. Why not? Ran down Rec organization with tons of money to spare. They can get any field they want and pay absolutely zero fees for it, charge a little less than a local club and here you go! Just look who is running the things at AYSO United. All you have to do is follow the money to know what is this really about. I'm not saying it's bad for the kids - it's great to have another option with professional coaching, but if you think for a second that these guys bellow is not in it for the money, think again.


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## MWN (Jan 29, 2018)

I know this is slightly off topic, but I love the fact that AYSO uses "Score" for their uniforms, instead of Nike, Adidas, etc.  $29 kit v. $110 kit for 12 year olds that will outgrow the damn thing in 6 months.


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## zebrafish (Jan 29, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> Do any one of you really think AYSO United started to support core AYSO values? Stop kidding yourselves.
> Little history....in England Rec programs run by volunteers and supported by cities and sponsors, so there is no money in youth soccer there, unless it's an academy of course. Those programs called Grassroots and fully sanctioned by FA, however there is no money in it. The money is here, in US, so all those English guys who didn't want to do it for free in England, not to mention they were not good enough to coach in academy, figured out that money is to be made in States. That was years ago and many of them came and started coaching clubs. Right now the new generation of coaches, figured out another way to make money - AYSO United. Why not? Ran down Rec organization with tons of money to spare. They can get any field they want and pay absolutely zero fees for it, charge a little less than a local club and here you go! Just look who is running the things at AYSO United. All you have to do is follow the money to know what is this really about. I'm not saying it's bad for the kids - it's great to have another option with professional coaching, but if you think for a second that these guys bellow is not in it for the money, think again.


Totally agree. But we need to exist in the system that we have. 

The AYSO has always lost players as clubs claim "they don't have professional coaches". Yet the AYSO develops players for all these teams. 

Parents are given suboptimal choices, but many pay/opt for club soccer (they take the sales pitch, rightly or wrongly-- and I include myself in this) as good players leave, perhaps not knowing they are propping up DOC salaries and paying for things that maybe aren't critical for their kid's development. Like all those track suits. 

The clubs and club apologists will continue to bash AYSO and AYSO United. However, I still think they will put downward pressure on club fees. Would I rather pay $500-$1000 less if I can get the same quality product? Absolutely.

I personally have more faith that the AYSO doesn't have greed/money as major motivating factor. I don't think this is true for some clubs out there. We'll see if United can create a quality club soccer product and keep their core values. I think they will find a niche and succeed.


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## Grace T. (Jan 29, 2018)

zebrafish said:


> Totally agree. But we need to exist in the system that we have.
> 
> The AYSO has always lost players as clubs claim "they don't have professional coaches". Yet the AYSO develops players for all these teams.
> 
> ...


I agree with a lot of what you say but I question how much downward pressure on club fees it will have.  The big chunk of change in club fees goes to salaries (coaches, trainers, DOC).  If some United teams pay their coaches, experienced volunteers in other areas will likely push for their time to be compensated (or the other parents will push for it...why does X group have payed coaches and a GK trainer and we don't?).  Once you have "employees" on your payroll, the director of United coaches will also have a lot more pressure on them (it's easy to dismiss a volunteer or to staff with a parent with a kid in the age group....it's harder to recruit a hire along with all the laws in place that go a long with it, not to mention dismissals)...to the extent there are DOCs operating without salaries, I can't imagine a volunteer would want to put up with it for long (particularly if other United region's DOCs are getting paid for the same work).  United also has to make payment to the AYSO state and national organizations, though they will get the benefit of field rental deals AYSO Core may have gotten.  And if their coaching salaries aren't competitive, like some All Star or Club Teams now do, coaches may pick up and leave for a non-AYSO club taking their players with them, particularly if the squad is good, wants to keep together and wants to play at a higher level.

So I agree it will have a downward pressure on Club fees but the Club fees will also have an upward pressure on AYSO United fees.

p.s. thanks to everyone that chimed in.  Most useful and interesting!  The thing that most surprised me is the tidbit that some regions are paying their coaches.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Jan 30, 2018)

Grace T. said:


> I agree with a lot of what you say but I question how much downward pressure on club fees it will have.  The big chunk of change in club fees goes to salaries (coaches, trainers, DOC).  If some United teams pay their coaches, experienced volunteers in other areas will likely push for their time to be compensated (or the other parents will push for it...why does X group have payed coaches and a GK trainer and we don't?).  Once you have "employees" on your payroll, the director of United coaches will also have a lot more pressure on them (it's easy to dismiss a volunteer or to staff with a parent with a kid in the age group....it's harder to recruit a hire along with all the laws in place that go a long with it, not to mention dismissals)...to the extent there are DOCs operating without salaries, I can't imagine a volunteer would want to put up with it for long (particularly if other United region's DOCs are getting paid for the same work).  United also has to make payment to the AYSO state and national organizations, though they will get the benefit of field rental deals AYSO Core may have gotten.  And if their coaching salaries aren't competitive, like some All Star or Club Teams now do, coaches may pick up and leave for a non-AYSO club taking their players with them, particularly if the squad is good, wants to keep together and wants to play at a higher level.
> 
> So I agree it will have a downward pressure on Club fees but the Club fees will also have an upward pressure on AYSO United fees.
> 
> p.s. thanks to everyone that chimed in.  Most useful and interesting!  The thing that most surprised me is the tidbit that some regions are paying their coaches.


Central is definitely one of them.


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## Matt K (Mar 9, 2019)

timbuck said:


> I said this in a prior post months ago-  but when clubs started offering up multiple teams in Flight 3, the clubs started dipping into the AYSO pond. This is just aysos way of responding.
> Yes, the fees are more. But you gotta pay more to player under Cal-South and Coast. And you gotta pay referees.


I would agree if AYSO United believed in the six Philosophies of AYSO unfortunately they do not. 

Their action failed to comply with AYSO United’s philosophy which as stated on AYSO United’s website, states:

*How is AYSO United different from other club soccer programs?*


What makes AYSO United different from other clubs is our Six Philosophies and the integrity of staying within those Philosophies. Our teams aren’t motivated by large rosters and a win at all costs mentality. If a player is selected to play for AYSO United, the coach will strive to ensure that a players receives 50 percent playing. AYSO United Coaches will focus on developmental training philosophies which falls in line with our U.S. Soccer approved curriculum. U.S. Soccer’s Zone 1 initiatives fall directly in line with AYSO’s “Development over Winning” approach to our club program. No other clubs can boast these credentials. We want to win…but respect and appreciate the entire process of competition.

I was under this impression and had my son try out very hard to get accepted to a team with AYSO United for 3 years finally he got in the 2006 team and they did great as a team for the entire year didn't lose one game, but at the end of the year the coach wanted him to go to 2005 team.
What happened to the player development part of the philosophy in his own age group?   I send my first email with my concern to AYSO and AYSO United decision makers, I got a responce from AYSO United stating: 

I have spoken with Coach the Director of Coaching and the head coach for the B2006 Team.  Coach has obviously evaluated your son through the year and feels that the B2005 (Blue) Team would be a better fit for him should he wish to continue in AYSO United.
As Coach is one of our top DOCs and talent evaluator I ultimately leave the player decisions up to him.
Should you have questions on the evaluation your son received I would communicate with Coach.

I emailed the coach asking: How did my son do comparing to his team mates during this weekends state cup tournament?
Coach replied: This is about your son and I stand by my decision and reasoning.

I have recorded all the 3 games and send another email to every one in the AYSO organization 3 days ago including the coach and his comments and communication stile but have not heard from them yet.

I will keep you posted.


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## timbuck (Mar 9, 2019)

Wait-  they want your son to play up a year?  That does sound like “development over winning”. 
Unless I’m missing something.  If your kid is a stud on the 06 team and the coach feels he can compete at a higher level-  then that sounds like a good thing. 
Or just look for a higher level team in your own age group at another club. 
It does seem a but strange that they would force your kid to play up though. 
Maybe play with both teams when possible.


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## Matt K (Mar 9, 2019)

Matt K said:


> I would agree if AYSO United believed in the six Philosophies of AYSO unfortunately they do not.
> 
> Their action failed to comply with AYSO United’s philosophy which as stated on AYSO United’s website, states:
> 
> ...


Sorry forgot to say that my experience was AYSO United South OC


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## Matt K (Mar 9, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Wait-  they want your son to play up a year?  That does sound like “development over winning”.
> Unless I’m missing something.  If your kid is a stud on the 06 team and the coach feels he can compete at a higher level-  then that sounds like a good thing.
> Or just look for a higher level team in your own age group at another club.
> It does seem a but strange that they would force your kid to play up though.
> Maybe play with both teams when possible.


You are correct but we played them in 2 scrimmages if I am not mistaken won 5 to 0 against them.
Plus what if my son gets injured playing older kids? I have played since I was 4 years old and Coached also, It is not good to play up at this age and I am 59 now.
I took my son to practice on a flight 1 team with a great Coach, he suggested that he should play on a flight 2 team and bring him back next year. If he had played on his team AYSO United South OC that is were he would be.
I have done my home work.
They should follow the AYSO Philosophies, It is the best in my opinion.


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## jrcaesar (Mar 9, 2019)

United is still a “club” team, which means selection process each spring. Looks like the 06 team (13-0-1) is moving to Silver; means they will need to have silver-level players to advance next year. You might need to look at some other Flight 2s in your area. Sucks, but sounds like that’s where you’re at.


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## Matt K (Mar 9, 2019)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Ayso not ayso united since guy makes money charging more money via bigger club names.


On their web site for AYSO United it states that the SIX Philosophies.

_*How is AYSO United different from other club soccer programs?*_

What makes AYSO United different from other clubs is our Six Philosophies and the integrity of staying within those Philosophies. Our teams aren’t motivated by large rosters and a win at all costs mentality. If a player is selected to play for AYSO United, the coach will strive to ensure that a players receives 50 percent playing. AYSO United Coaches will focus on developmental training philosophies which falls in line with our U.S. Soccer approved curriculum. U.S. Soccer’s Zone 1 initiatives fall directly in line with AYSO’s “Development over Winning” approach to our club program. No other clubs can boast these credentials. We want to win…but respect and appreciate the entire process of competition.

http://aysounited.org/f-a-q/


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## Matt K (Mar 9, 2019)

jrcaesar said:


> United is still a “club” team, which means selection process each spring. Looks like the 06 team (13-0-1) is moving to Silver; means they will need to have silver-level players to advance next year. You might need to look at some other Flight 2s in your area. Sucks, but sounds like that’s where you’re at.


Correct, but I recorded the last 3 games and my son scored in the first game, he played more then 50% in the second game and 2 overtimes till they won the game. If my son was not good enough the Coach should have not played him as much.


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## Matt K (Mar 9, 2019)

Matt K said:


> Correct, but I recorded the last 3 games and my son scored in the first game, he played more then 50% in the second game and 2 overtimes till they won the game. If my son was not good enough the Coach should have not played him as much.


If a player is excepted to a team good or bad they should stay there when they move up.
Player development is physical and mental.
Politics should have nothing to do with it at this age.


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## Matt K (Mar 9, 2019)

Let me emphasize on the points that I am trying to make. When a club like AYSO United South OC charges $1600 per player plus Ref and coach travel accommodation fees that is not a problem. It is when they break the AYSO United rules. Let’s again read what is in AYSO United web Site. http://aysounited.org/f-a-q/

*How is AYSO United different from other club soccer programs?*


What makes AYSO United different from other clubs is our Six Philosophies and the integrity of staying within those Philosophies. Our teams aren’t motivated by large rosters and a win at all costs mentality. If a player is selected to play for AYSO United, the coach will strive to ensure that a players receives 50 percent playing. AYSO United Coaches will focus on developmental training philosophies which falls in line with our U.S. Soccer approved curriculum. U.S. Soccer’s Zone 1 initiatives fall directly in line with AYSO’s “Development over Winning” approach to our club program. No other clubs can boast these credentials. We want to win…but respect and appreciate the entire process of competition.


Look at the part:” *AYSO United Coaches will focus on developmental training philosophies which falls in line with our U.S. Soccer approved curriculum.”*

In this part it should be very clear to an A licensed coach that developmental means physical and mental.

The second part: *“U.S. Soccer’s Zone 1 initiatives fall directly in line with AYSO’s “Development over Winning”*”

It is clear that you must develop a kid once accepted to a team and develop them over winning. But an A class Coach prefers to bring kids to the  team he did not coach before. How can we be assure that they will fit with a team that is moving one level up? 
If not then there is a loophole that needs to be corrected, but then again it says “*We want to win…but respect and appreciate the entire process of competition.*” So no loophole here for the Coach and the club.

I hope I made my self-clear. Where is the integrity for AYSO United South OC as stated above.


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## Grace T. (Mar 9, 2019)

First, just let me say that my family loved a lot of the United experience.  Our own coach was really great and fixed a lot of the problems with my son's field work (but he didn't know a whole lot about goalkeeping).  We also love that AYSO is trying to develop multiple tiers so that every kid has a place to play at their appropriate level.

However, the big downside I'd have to say with the United experience was that our club was obsessed at all levels with winning.  Granted, it's a problem throughout US Soccer.  But I'd say it's especially true of United.   In part it's because the club has a chip on its shoulder about being disrespected by other clubs.  In part it's because the leadership wants to prove itself against the other marquee clubs and they know winning is what they are judged on.  In part it's the coaches want to prove themselves.  In part it's that a lot of families are coming out of Extras (where a strong emphasis is placed on winning with all their tournaments).  In part it's the need to move teams up so that they have tiers at all levels to feed kids into.

That, in our experience, led them to sometimes bend the rules of the six philosophies.  I'm not going to spill all over the club here, because as a whole it was a good experience, but some of the things that came up (with my own kid, with others, and with other teams) were just unexpected given the emphasis they placed on the six philosophies.


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## wheresourfield (Mar 9, 2019)

Maybe he is forcing you to move teams because his parents are a bit much to deal with?


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## Matt K (Mar 9, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> First, just let me say that my family loved a lot of the United experience.  Our own coach was really great and fixed a lot of the problems with my son's field work (but he didn't know a whole lot about goalkeeping).  We also love that AYSO is trying to develop multiple tiers so that every kid has a place to play at their appropriate level.
> 
> However, the big downside I'd have to say with the United experience was that our club was obsessed at all levels with winning.  Granted, it's a problem throughout US Soccer.  But I'd say it's especially true of United.   In part it's because the club has a chip on its shoulder about being disrespected by other clubs.  In part it's because the leadership wants to prove itself against the other marquee clubs and they know winning is what they are judged on.  In part it's the coaches want to prove themselves.  In part it's that a lot of families are coming out of Extras (where a strong emphasis is placed on winning with all their tournaments).  In part it's the need to move teams up so that they have tiers at all levels to feed kids into.
> 
> That, in our experience, led them to sometimes bend the rules of the six philosophies.  I'm not going to spill all over the club here, because as a whole it was a good experience, but some of the things that came up (with my own kid, with others, and with other teams) were just unexpected given the emphasis they placed on the six philosophies.



I love AYSO that is where my kids started soccer, not everything is as we expect, but fair is fair and I don't want AYSO to lose it's reputation because of AYSO United not following there six philosophies and getting the benefits that comes along with it. We won every game but the last one, that should be enough to prove they can compete.
If we don't show our concerns and they don't fix the problems other kids will be a victim of the same problem. 
Politics should be stopped with the Kids lives. 
If we don't say anything it will continue in AYSO united and people like me and you will not love AYSO anymore.


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## jrcaesar (Mar 9, 2019)

@Matt K - I hear ya, I just don't think that AYSO United is guaranteeing that the teams are going to stay together year over year within those six philosophies, which I think is the loophole you're overlooking

But as to the Winning part, agree with you. _(Opinion: Some of this is because they will have to play in Coast, and virtually all the United teams swept through Bronze quickly in year 1. Getting out of Silver - top-two finishes - is harder. Teams can go 10-4 and not advance. I'm sure this is a concern for United as a whole, as Grace alludes.) _Anyway, we know a number of families playing and their experience sounds more like Grace's, too.


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## Matt K (Mar 9, 2019)

jrcaesar said:


> @Matt K - I hear ya, I just don't think that AYSO United is guaranteeing that the teams are going to stay together year over year within those six philosophies, which I think is the loophole you're overlooking
> 
> But as to the Winning part, agree with you. _(Opinion: Some of this is because they will have to play in Coast, and virtually all the United teams swept through Bronze quickly in year 1. Getting out of Silver - top-two finishes - is harder. Teams can go 10-4 and not advance. I'm sure this is a concern for United as a whole, as Grace alludes.) _Anyway, we know a number of families playing and their experience sounds more like Grace's, too.


What guaranties a Coach that the new players are better? Why not stay with your six philosophies and beat the competition? Good reputation is where you get players come to you, I saw very good players during the tryouts this year none of them joined the team. Last year I personally talked to 3 families to join AYSO United that their kids did not think AYSO United was a club and that is because I love AYSO and we were short of players for a long time. I have been coaching in AYSO and have made many friends with many families.  Good reputation goes a long way. If a A class Coach had a good attitude and demeanor's with the families last year he would not have lost that many players. A dedicated Coach is not enough. I don't want to say here what he told my son after his evaluation in front of me and he is a 12 year old Kid. Many families have mentioned to me from his past that he is a terrible communicator.


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## Matt K (Mar 9, 2019)

wheresourfield said:


> Maybe he is forcing you to move teams because his parents are a bit much to deal with?


That is a very good point. During the hole year I asked to speak to him one time. I had to wait 2 weeks to speak to him and that was it. I was a coach so I understand what you are saying.


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## SPChamp1 (Mar 9, 2019)

MWN said:


> I know this is slightly off topic, but I love the fact that AYSO uses "Score" for their uniforms, instead of Nike, Adidas, etc.  $29 kit v. $110 kit for 12 year olds that will outgrow the damn thing in 6 months.


AYSO United just announced New Balance as their new kit maker for the upcoming season. Prior to that they did actually use Score as you mentioned, however, AYSO United used custom kits which ran significantly more than the usual <$30 kits you would see in their Rec program. The custom kits ran about $90 for home and away kits plus shorts and socks.


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## Messi>CR7 (Mar 10, 2019)

Matt K said:


> What guaranties a Coach that the new players are better? Why not stay with your six philosophies and beat the competition? Good reputation is where you get players come to you, I saw very good players during the tryouts this year none of them joined the team. Last year I personally talked to 3 families to join AYSO United that their kids did not think AYSO United was a club and that is because I love AYSO and we were short of players for a long time. I have been coaching in AYSO and have made many friends with many families.  Good reputation goes a long way. If a A class Coach had a good attitude and demeanor's with the families last year he would not have lost that many players. A dedicated Coach is not enough. I don't want to say here what he told my son after his evaluation in front of me and he is a 12 year old Kid. Many families have mentioned to me from his past that he is a terrible communicator.


The one overwhelming advise from people on this forum is to make your team decision based on the coach, not the club.

You need to have a coach that you trust, and in return he believes in your kid.  It sounds like you have neither in this situation.  It's time to move on and find a better situation for your kid.  It really doesn't matter the club in question is AYSO United, CSL Flight 1, or Manchester United (see Pogba vs Mourinho).

Best of luck.


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## timbuck (Mar 10, 2019)

Messi>CR7 said:


> The one overwhelming advise from people on this forum is to make your team decision based on the coach, not the club.
> 
> You need to have a coach that you trust, and in return he believes in your kid.  It sounds like you have neither in this situation.  It's time to move on and find a better situation for your kid.  It really doesn't matter the club in question is AYSO United, CSL Flight 1, or Manchester United (see Pogba vs Mourinho).
> 
> Best of luck.


Problem is that many clubs won’t tell you who your coach will be.  You sign to pay (play) for the club and they reserve the right to make changes at will.


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## wheresourfield (Mar 11, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Problem is that many clubs won’t tell you who your coach will be.  You sign to pay (play) for the club and they reserve the right to make changes at will.


Or they switch it on you half way through the season....without any warning.  Part of the game, keep it moving if it doesn't feel right.  You and your kid will be better off in the long run.


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## Grace T. (Mar 11, 2019)

jrcaesar said:


> @Matt K - I hear ya, I just don't think that AYSO United is guaranteeing that the teams are going to stay together year over year within those six philosophies, which I think is the loophole you're overlooking
> .


  That's really the heart of the problem.  Ideally AYSO wants to make it so that every place has an appropriate to play (and no, playing up isn't really appropriate unless the kid is huge and gifted).  It's not that they have to stay together, but there should be a commitment that once they are in the United track United will foster their progress and try to develop the individual players.  Instead, their emphasis (for the reasons I outlined above) seems to be putting together winning teams.

But the way they are structured is that every coach runs his  own little fiefdom with very little supervision from the DoCs.  It's less true of those United programs receiving a salary, but then if they get unhappy they'll just hop to another club (and I expect we'll see more stories like that).  To make it really about player development over the course of a career, things have to be more centrally managed, but United is structured like other clubs where teams get a great deal of autonomy.

The situation with United is made more stark because of the open tryouts every year...teams don't carry forward year after year (nor do coaches) and everyone has to compete for a new spot.  This fosters a one-and-done attitude with the team and staff where they know that they will be judged for a year and not necessarily stay together

It was clear with my own son that his coach didn't feel he was quite ready for silver (maybe 1 more year out)...because of his various issues I sort of agreed with it, on the whole.  They invited him to place on the new bronze team that was forming but there wasn't really any guidance to see he actually gets place on the team.  His coach didn't care (he had already moved on to recruiting new players and no longer considered it his problem).  The DoC, who I consider a friend, didn't really do much...he had no transparency into the teams, only the coaches.  It took them a while to pick a coach for the new team, and the rains had the tryouts constantly being washed out.  No one said, hey we'd really like to see him on such and such date despite all the words that there's definitely a place for him here, we don't want to lose you guys, and if he keeps at it he'll make it there.  He would up instead getting an offer for another club right next door right away and we took it.


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## SPChamp1 (Mar 11, 2019)

It was inevitable that for AYSO to remain relative would eventually have to look toward a Club Program. They rolled out their Regional Matrix program several years ago with pretty decent results in the surrounding SD area. They then launched their National Pilot program “Challenge” to varying degrees of success. About 6 years ago, (when I was still involved with AYSO) I pitched some ideas to expand this Club Circuit idea and was told it wouldn’t work. There was no dialog, no discussion, just NO, We are a Rec Program. 

IMO, they adopted too late and are trying too hard to still advertise that they are AYSO. In order to be successful, I think they need to do the following things. 

1) Drop AYSO from the name and distance the “affiliation”. (Yes, take the AYSO patch off the sleeve of the jersey) You can still be guided by the Philosophies and Vision statements without plastering the name all over. 

2) Look to merge or partner with established smaller clubs to expand your coach and player base. Your first choice for identifying players shouldn’t come from your Extra Program or from families that are disgruntled with their current Club organization. 

3) Keep cost barriers low. Prices apparently vary, but in my area it appears that it is about $1500+team fees. Keep it around there. 

4) Try to move away as much as possible from “volunteer” coaches. I know many of these coaches take a salary, but at the end of the day, a lot of them are still just moms and dads who happen to be good coaches.


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## Grace T. (Mar 11, 2019)

SPChamp1 said:


> It was inevitable that for AYSO to remain relative would eventually have to look toward a Club Program. They rolled out their Regional Matrix program several years ago with pretty decent results in the surrounding SD area. They then launched their National Pilot program “Challenge” to varying degrees of success. About 6 years ago, (when I was still involved with AYSO) I pitched some ideas to expand this Club Circuit idea and was told it wouldn’t work. There was no dialog, no discussion, just NO, We are a Rec Program.
> 
> IMO, they adopted too late and are trying too hard to still advertise that they are AYSO. In order to be successful, I think they need to do the following things.
> 
> 1) Drop AYSO from the name and distance the “affiliation”. (Yes, take the AYSO patch off the sleeve of the jersey) You can still be guided by the Philosophies and Vision statements without plastering the name all over.


Well, they don't want to do that because they fall under the AYSO National Office, which wants to make clear it's an AYSO program for which they take responsibility.  Plus, the goal (and it's a good one) is to make sure there's an appropriate level for every kid to place, from Core, to All Stars, to Extras, to United B/S/G, to Is64.  If you want to have those tiers, you need them linked, but what's missing is a mechanism for moving kids up and down the pole.



SPChamp1 said:


> =
> 
> 2) Look to merge or partner with established smaller clubs to expand your coach and player base. Your first choice for identifying players shouldn’t come from your Extra Program or from families that are disgruntled with their current Club organization.



The problem is those other organizations don't have the 6 philosophies and would have to be indoctrinated in them (it's all over even the intermediate ref exam, for example).  A merger wouldn't go well.  It would have to be a takeover so United could be in a position to impose the way they do things.   You'd also have to change the emphasis away from winning since the power AYSO receives in competitions largely comes from taking the best of the Extras and cherry picking from other clubs....merging with smaller clubs and not altering that emphasis means those smaller clubs players get cut except for maybe 1 or 2 top players, particularly if they aren't fast runners (the AYSO exams put a great deal of emphasis on running)



SPChamp1 said:


> 3) Keep cost barriers low. Prices apparently vary, but in my area it appears that it is about $1500+team fees. Keep it around there.


In ours it was $500 but only one tournament included and coaches were volunteers and DOCS were volunteer board member.  You start to throw in multiple tournmanets, salaried coaches, and a living wage for the DOC and you are comparable now to the other clubs in the area. 



SPChamp1 said:


> 4) Try to move away as much as possible from “volunteer” coaches. I know many of these coaches take a salary, but at the end of the day, a lot of them are still just moms and dads who happen to be good coaches.


The AYSO National Office is trying to do that.  They believe it will create more accountability since a volunteer can just say "this is my kingdom, if you don't like it, go ahead and fire me".  The problem is it will raise costs to comparable costs in the area for small indie clubs that do 1 or 2 tournaments a year....not those clubs that may furnish a DOC was the Mercedes he is so accustomed to, or that are subsidizing a DA program....but comparable.  As to the daddy ballers, they are really making a push for all United coaches to hold at least a D license and in our area the message went out that if they want to keep their teams (irrespective of winning records) they better be expanding their coaching education.[/QUOTE]


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## soccersc (Mar 11, 2019)

Matt K said:


> I love AYSO that is where my kids started soccer, not everything is as we expect, but fair is fair and I don't want AYSO to lose it's reputation because of AYSO United not following there six philosophies and getting the benefits that comes along with it. We won every game but the last one, that should be enough to prove they can compete.
> If we don't show our concerns and they don't fix the problems other kids will be a victim of the same problem.
> Politics should be stopped with the Kids lives.
> If we don't say anything it will continue in AYSO united and people like me and you will not love AYSO anymore.


I understand you are upset with what you believe is a club not following its policies.  You have complained a lot about how they are handling the situation and you've even mentioned videoing the games, but what does that help with your kid?  Are you trying to get him to stay at the club at that age level?  It sounds like the coach doesn't think your son should be on his team, there might be many reasons he feels that way, and perhaps it doesn't even have to do with his skills, and it might not even be right, but it seems clear that's the way he feels.  I'm sure you've had a teacher, sometime in your life, that you felt didn't give you the grade you deserved, well it goes the same for coaches....its subjective, might not be right or fair, but it's their opinion!!!

You also mention the worry about playing with bigger kids...If your son is planning on playing in high school hes going to have to get used to playing with bigger kids, most high school teams mix the freshman and sophomores on a frosh/soph team anyway.  Not sure if your son in a 7th grader as an 06 but I can tell you that there are 05s that are also 7th graders also he would/could actually be playing with his same grade level.  The size of players starts to level a bit as kids get to high school. 

Not sure if I agree with you on them not standing by their philosophies.  I didn't see anywhere where it stated that if you are on a team you have the right to be on the same team again the next season.  I must have missed that part.
Find a new place to play, were the coach believes in your son and wants them on the team.  It will do great for you and your son!


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## lastkid (Mar 11, 2019)

soccersc said:


> I understand you are upset with what you believe is a club not following its policies.  You have complained a lot about how they are handling the situation and you've even mentioned videoing the games, but what does that help with your kid?  Are you trying to get him to stay at the club at that age level?  It sounds like the coach doesn't think your son should be on his team, there might be many reasons he feels that way, and perhaps it doesn't even have to do with his skills, and it might not even be right, but it seems clear that's the way he feels.  I'm sure you've had a teacher, sometime in your life, that you felt didn't give you the grade you deserved, well it goes the same for coaches....its subjective, might not be right or fair, but it's their opinion!!!
> 
> You also mention the worry about playing with bigger kids...If your son is planning on playing in high school hes going to have to get used to playing with bigger kids, most high school teams mix the freshman and sophomores on a frosh/soph team anyway.  Not sure if your son in a 7th grader as an 06 but I can tell you that there are 05s that are also 7th graders also he would/could actually be playing with his same grade level.  The size of players starts to level a bit as kids get to high school.
> 
> ...


He even said his son got to play 50% plus in games after being cut.  Sounds like "Everyone Plays" was being enforced.  Even AYSO Extra teams have tryouts each year and will cut players.  Everyone Plays means that they are supposed to play at least 50% of the game not that they are guaranteed a spot on a competitive level team.  Time to move on and find a team where the coach wants the kid.


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## lastkid (Mar 11, 2019)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Some guy, with a big ego,  in South OC uses AYSO to get the break on the fields from the city. He then added club and switches name of club every year - needs to get the best value. He changed the name (for marketing) of the rec side but still AYSO.  So club gets primo fields and the guy is the exec director,  manager of all teams, assistant coach on all teams and coach of 4 teams - not listed as coach of one team but is the guy yelling from the bench every game. No one performs that many jobs at a club -but a good way for no one to see how you manage the paperwork and money. So might be volunteer on the AYSO side but making the $ on the club side.  The coaching isnt better but the club prices are the same.  In many parts of South OC AYSO has fallen apart due to politics and coaching quality. Some people also abuse what AYSO can get you from an administrative point of view.


Are you sure you are not talking about South Slammers?  There has been only one name change for AYSO United in South OC.  It was Pacific Soccer Club for a number of years, then changed to AYSO United last year as part of AYSO national's effort to control the brand.  The main guy for AYSO United in South OC is definitely not a volunteer, not the coach of 4 teams and not an assistant coach on the rest of the teams.


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## Matt K (Mar 11, 2019)

Messi>CR7 said:


> The one overwhelming advise from people on this forum is to make your team decision based on the coach, not the club.
> 
> You need to have a coach that you trust, and in return he believes in your kid.  It sounds like you have neither in this situation.  It's time to move on and find a better situation for your kid.  It really doesn't matter the club in question is AYSO United, CSL Flight 1, or Manchester United (see Pogba vs Mourinho).
> 
> Best of luck.


You are absolutely correct about that. I was the fool because after 3 years of trying to get into the AYSO United team last year he picked him because he did not have enough players. He did not like my son even though he was the second highest scorer on the team during the year and when I discussed it with the coach he said it does not count.


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## Matt K (Mar 11, 2019)

soccersc said:


> I understand you are upset with what you believe is a club not following its policies.  You have complained a lot about how they are handling the situation and you've even mentioned videoing the games, but what does that help with your kid?  Are you trying to get him to stay at the club at that age level?  It sounds like the coach doesn't think your son should be on his team, there might be many reasons he feels that way, and perhaps it doesn't even have to do with his skills, and it might not even be right, but it seems clear that's the way he feels.  I'm sure you've had a teacher, sometime in your life, that you felt didn't give you the grade you deserved, well it goes the same for coaches....its subjective, might not be right or fair, but it's their opinion!!!
> 
> You also mention the worry about playing with bigger kids...If your son is planning on playing in high school hes going to have to get used to playing with bigger kids, most high school teams mix the freshman and sophomores on a frosh/soph team anyway.  Not sure if your son in a 7th grader as an 06 but I can tell you that there are 05s that are also 7th graders also he would/could actually be playing with his same grade level.  The size of players starts to level a bit as kids get to high school.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of your comments and yes I wanted my son on the only 06 team with AYSO United to develop because of the Six philosophies. Based on my experience I just want other parents to know the the *kids do not come before AYSO United* just like other clubs, which was mentioned in an other post and AYSO United will not even discuss it with you, even if you have proof of your kids ability. 

As far as the high school is concerned it's totally different, at this age group because of the developmental aspect in the mental and physical ability of the kids they have been divided in their appropriate age group and I did not make that rule, There must have been a study done for that.
On the last part you must have not read my posts before, It is not about winning it is developing the kids which was not followed by AYSO United as they clearly stated. 

I used to be a great fan of AYSO United just like you, but now I understand that they are just like any other club and have to find a Coach that likes my kid not my money when his team is falling apart because of the decisions they made in the past, and listen to other parents that the Coach is a terrible communicator, and use us to get to their Goals.


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## focomoso (Mar 12, 2019)

Matt K said:


> I used to be a great fan of AYSO United just like you, but now I understand that they are just like any other club...


I'm late to this, but why do you think a competitive ASYO team would be any different from any other competitive team? Different coaches look for different skillsets and have to balance their team. Soccer skill doesn't fit on a number line: player A is better than player B and B better than C and so on... it doesn't work that way. Each player has a rage of things they're good at and that they're missing and a team needs a range of skills to succeed. 

As long as we have team-based competition, there are going to be kids that get cut who might be better than others in certain aspects. That's the nature of sports.


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## Matt K (Mar 12, 2019)

focomoso said:


> I'm late to this, but why do you think a competitive ASYO team would be any different from any other competitive team? Different coaches look for different skillsets and have to balance their team. Soccer skill doesn't fit on a number line: player A is better than player B and B better than C and so on... it doesn't work that way. Each player has a rage of things they're good at and that they're missing and a team needs a range of skills to succeed.
> 
> As long as we have team-based competition, there are going to be kids that get cut who might be better than others in certain aspects. That's the nature of sports.


I agree great points, but the point I am making is when it came to AYSO United I expected the player development aspect of the philosophies, so if a player you put on a team in the beginning of the year after trying out for a team for more then 3 years with A Class Coach, top DOCs and talent evaluator for AYSO United credentials should know the strengths and weakness of a kid. Just so other parents can understand.


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## Eagle33 (Mar 12, 2019)

Matt K said:


> I agree great points, but the point I am making is when it came to AYSO United I expected the player development aspect of the philosophies, so if a player you put on a team in the beginning of the year after trying out for a team for more then 3 years with A Class Coach, top DOCs and talent evaluator for AYSO United credentials should know the strengths and weakness of a kid.


From what you describing, your kid got to play 50% or more, was put on a team, was given evaluation (in your case to play up), was given training.
Not sure what else you want? It looks like coach is trying to get rid of the parent and kid got caught in the middle of it. I could be wrong.....


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## Matt K (Mar 12, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> From what you describing, your kid got to play 50% or more, was put on a team, was given evaluation (in your case to play up), was given training.
> Not sure what else you want? It looks like coach is trying to get rid of the parent and kid got caught in the middle of it. I could be wrong.....


I have answered that question please look it up. I can see who likes my comments and who doesn't and the parents will make the final decisions by reading these posts. If a A Class Coach, top DOCs and talent evaluator makes that kind of mistakes then we have allot to say about the club.


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## Eagle33 (Mar 12, 2019)

Matt K said:


> I have answered that question please look it up. I can see who likes my comments and who doesn't and the parents will make the final decisions by reading these posts. If a A Class Coach, top DOCs and talent evaluator makes that kind of mistakes then we have allot to say about the club.


What is this mean - A class coach? You mean he has A license?


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## Matt K (Mar 12, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> What is this mean - A class coach? You mean he has A license?


Yes you are correct. Sorry.


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## Matt K (Mar 12, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> From what you describing, your kid got to play 50% or more, was put on a team, was given evaluation (in your case to play up), was given training.
> Not sure what else you want? It looks like coach is trying to get rid of the parent and kid got caught in the middle of it. I could be wrong.....


This is what I don't want to happen. It is all over the News today. Scams.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/celebs-charged-with-fraud-in-buying-their-childrens-admission-to-top-colleges-180302288.html

Federal authorities on Tuesday charged 46 people, including actresses Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin and college coaches and administrators, in an alleged scheme to win admission to prestigious universities for the children of wealthy parents.

At a press conference Tuesday, U.S. Attorney for the District of Massachusetts Andrew Lelling called the scheme the “largest college admissions scam ever prosecuted by the Department of Justice.” Yale, Stanford and Georgetown universities were among the schools identified as having been duped into accepting unqualified applicants.

Lelling said the operation, allegedly run out of a Newport Beach, Calif., college-admissions coaching company, had several parts, including coaching applicants to cheat on SAT and ACT admissions tests and bribing athletic coaches to identify applicants as potential recruits who could be admitted under athletic waivers requiring lower academic standards.

I just copied and pasted part of the article. Please read the hole article. 
*I feel that is what has been done to my son by AYSO United.*


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## Matt K (Mar 12, 2019)

Matt K said:


> This is what I don't want to happen. It is all over the News today. Scams.
> https://www.yahoo.com/news/celebs-charged-with-fraud-in-buying-their-childrens-admission-to-top-colleges-180302288.html
> 
> Federal authorities on Tuesday charged 46 people, including actresses Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin and college coaches and administrators, in an alleged scheme to win admission to prestigious universities for the children of wealthy parents.
> ...


I don't see anyone liking my last post. or as a matter of fact any of my posts. 
Any one in the media out there that would like to watch the video of my son playing soccer and judging it?


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## MWN (Mar 12, 2019)

@Matt K,

I'll probably regret jumping in, but here it goes.  I've read your posts, the responses and replies.  I think I have a fairly good understanding of the situation and can make some educated guesses, especially after a little sleuthing.  These facts/assumptions are relevant:

The B2006 team in question was CSL Bronze last year.
AYSO is CSL, so any team finishing without a loss either finished 1st or 2nd and will be moved to Silver next year ... tougher competition.
It took your son 3 years to make a bronze team, which means he is not the reincarnation of Pele, Messi or Ronaldo.
Your son was likely a "bubble kid" meaning when he joined the team, some of his skills were behind the others, but he showed enough physical ability that the coach thought he could progress.
Your son was the 2nd highest scorer on the team.  If #2 and #3 are accurate then he played up top in the forward position most of the time and did not play in the back or midfield often.  This infers he is not well-rounded and needs further development.  Is he a 1-trick pony like most "strikers" in this age group?
B2006 = 12 years old last year, and 13 this year / puberty is starting.
The B2005 team didn't exist last year, its new team and will start off as Bronze.
The coach believes your son can play on a B2005 - Bronze team, which infers that the kid is not a pip-squeak, he has enough size to be competitive at his age and the next, especially at the Bronze level.
You are a very engaged parent and pushed your kid to try out for the team 3 years in a row, which puts you into a category of parent that deeply cares, but can also be higher maintenance.
AYSO's development philosophy says nothing about placing kids in their own age group as fundamental to their development philosophies.  The belief that AYSO should keep kids in their same age groups is actually incorrect if "development" is the goal.  Indeed, US Soccer's new initiatives offer an alternative to age banding, which can stunt development, and are pushing "Bio-Banding" at the more competitive levels to improve development (Google it "US Soccer Bio-Banding" to learn more).

The first issue is what exactly is AYSO United.  According to their website (https://ayso.org/play/ayso-united/), we see this:

AYSO United is proud to be the Official Club Program of American Youth Soccer Organization. Our United program is designed to complete the AYSO Player Development Pathway, allowing players to complete their youth soccer journey under AYSO’s Six Philosophies. Building upon the foundation of the tremendous history and tradition, *our AYSO United players will experience a positive, developmentally-appropriate environment*, where they will not only develop in practice but during the game, where they are guaranteed 50% play.​
It seems that the crux of your concern is whether or not your son is being placed into a "developmentally-appropriate environment."  Is being moved to a new B2005 team, developmentally appropriate for the "players."  Here is where I think the problem lies, AYSO United owes a duty to every player, not just Kid 1 or Kid 3.  Each of the players needs to practice and play with others that support the overall goal of creating a developmentally-appropriate environment for all.

There are many reasons why a coach might ask a player to move to a higher level team, some of which include not just looking at the skill of the player, but looking at the needs of the team.  Often times, the teams in needs created the biggest challenges for a player and development opportunities. If we have a player that is not well-rounded or less skilled or still finding his puberty induced body on a more competitive team, that player may benefit from moving up an age group.  Development means we put kids in environments where all the kids will benefit the most, which sometimes means playing up a year or two.  Playing down is also an option at the highest competitive levels, but not in this case due to CSL rules.

I can tell you that when my kid was 12 and 13 (2003) he played his age group - Flight 3.  When he was 14 he played up 1 year (2002's) - Flight 2.  He is now 15 and playing up 2 years (2001's) - Flight 1.  At 14, he was the only Freshman to get called up to Varsity.  At 15 (sophomore) he was the starting goalkeeper for his Varsity team and finished the year with a GAA of .61, 88% Save Pct. and 11 clean sheets.  His team will play in National Cup - Olders in a month or so.  He is light years ahead of most of his age group ... because his coach wanted him to play up.

My suggestion is get out of the way and let the coach do his thing.


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## wheresourfield (Mar 12, 2019)

Matt K said:


> I don't see anyone liking my last post. or as a matter of fact any of my posts.
> Any one in the media out there that would like to watch the video of my son playing soccer and judging it?


post the video or a link, enough of us will watch it.


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## Matt K (Mar 12, 2019)

MWN said:


> @Matt K,
> 
> I'll probably regret jumping in, but here it goes.  I've read your posts, the responses and replies.  I think I have a fairly good understanding of the situation and can make some educated guesses, especially after a little sleuthing.  These facts/assumptions are relevant:
> 
> ...


First I have to say thank you for the great detailed information.
Just for your information my son played as center attacking mid and has the most assists in the team also.
I asked to speak to the coach one time during the hole year. We spoke for 5 or 10 Minutes after waiting for him for 2 weeks.
I encouraged other kids more then my own after the game, we were all a family.
Just because I am speaking out here for other parents to understand what they have to expect, I would understand your concern.
My Daughter made the JV first year as a goalkeeper and she is playing in a highest level flight 1 team in out area. They call her the fearless one.

Congratulation on raising such a amazing kid.

Thank you again.


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## Grace T. (Mar 12, 2019)

Matt K said:


> I encouraged other kids more then my own after the game, we were all a family.
> .


Scratching my head here because you have a high school goalkeeper so you've clearly been through the process before yet seem very surprised by all this (shenanigans?). 

You seem to have made 2 assumptions.  1. That United is somehow different than other clubs because they are AYSO and say they follow the 6 philosophies.  For all the marketing, they really aren't all that different (they may someday, but that's a pretty big "if").  MWN maybe right that maybe the coach thinks this is the best thing for your son's development.  I'm more cynical, but at least they gave you a spot.  Most clubs wouldn't have gone that far.

2. "We were all a family".  I fell for that line our first year with a non-United club.  Soccer is like a family....but it's a highly dysfunctional one with an abusive father, crazy bipolar mother, and kid that keeps getting thrown out of school for fighting.  Your eyes are open now.  You and your child have a choice: pick yourselves up and accept it for what it is (and maybe find a situation which is better...though another warning: almost no place is perfect), or move on from this mess that is called youth soccer.

p.s. for how much of a mess see the thread about people bribing college coaches to place their kids on the teams.


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## wheresourfield (Mar 12, 2019)

Matt K said:


> First I have to say thank you for the great detailed information.
> Just for your information my son played as center attacking mid and has the most assists in the team also.
> I asked to speak to the coach one time during the hole year. We spoke for 5 or 10 Minutes after waiting for him for 2 weeks.
> I encouraged other kids more then my own after the game, we were all a family.
> ...


At this point........You are either a trolling us, or it is 100% your fault.


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## focomoso (Mar 12, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> p.s. for how much of a mess see the thread about people bribing college coaches to place their kids on the teams.


At the risk of derailing the thread. This wasn't to put the kids on the actual teams, it was to put the fact that they were a recruit on their application. Many of the kids had never even played the sport before...


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## Grace T. (Mar 12, 2019)

focomoso said:


> At the risk of derailing the thread. This wasn't to put the kids on the actual teams, it was to put the fact that they were a recruit on their application. Many of the kids had never even played the sport before...


Fair.  But the UCLA girl apparently has her picture up as a team member and for some (many?) parents and a few (some?) players, it's not so much about actually playing in college as about getting on the preferential athletic admission track.  Heck, some 2nd and 3rd goalkeepers won't see the field in a game ever.


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## focomoso (Mar 12, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> Fair.  But the UCLA girl apparently has her picture up as a team member and for some (many?) parents and a few (some?) players, it's not so much about actually playing in college as about getting on the preferential athletic admission track.  Heck, some 2nd and 3rd goalkeepers won't see the field in a game ever.


The question I keep asking myself while watching this unfold is, "does being on the athletic admission track really help your application that much?" For a superstar recruit, I get it, "this kid will help us beat State..." But for a run-of-the-mill player (or perennial bench warmer (or non actual player with an "athlete" * next to their name)) Does it really justify paying that much money and risking getting caught?

I guess some parents thought so...


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## Matt K (Mar 12, 2019)

wheresourfield said:


> At this point........You are either a trolling us, or it is 100% your fault.


LOL. I had to lookup trolling. But I promise you I am not trolling you or any one. I just love kids and want them to get treated better. They should not be treated as a business. What I fail to understand if they have a losing season all the players leave and if they have a winning season they are cut from the team.


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## Matt K (Mar 12, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> Scratching my head here because you have a high school goalkeeper so you've clearly been through the process before yet seem very surprised by all this (shenanigans?).
> 
> You seem to have made 2 assumptions.  1. That United is somehow different than other clubs because they are AYSO and say they follow the 6 philosophies.  For all the marketing, they really aren't all that different (they may someday, but that's a pretty big "if").  MWN maybe right that maybe the coach thinks this is the best thing for your son's development.  I'm more cynical, but at least they gave you a spot.  Most clubs wouldn't have gone that far.
> 
> ...


That is the truth, great answer. and the best answer I got was this and finding a coach that likes your kids ability. It doesn't matter which Club. I will be searching for that coach and any recommendations from everyone here will be greatly appreciated.


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## Matt K (Mar 12, 2019)

focomoso said:


> At the risk of derailing the thread. This wasn't to put the kids on the actual teams, it was to put the fact that they were a recruit on their application. Many of the kids had never even played the sport before...


What will stop them from paying off someone to put their kids in a winning team? When the kids that actually made the effort to get the team to the next level gets kicked out.


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## Matt K (Mar 12, 2019)

focomoso said:


> The question I keep asking myself while watching this unfold is, "does being on the athletic admission track really help your application that much?" For a superstar recruit, I get it, "this kid will help us beat State..." But for a run-of-the-mill player (or perennial bench warmer (or non actual player with an "athlete" * next to their name)) Does it really justify paying that much money and risking getting caught?
> 
> I guess some parents thought so...


Those are the parents with money. They never spend time with their kids so they just want to buy them thinks. I am lucky that I can dedicate my time to my kids. I tell them about needs and wants. We are grateful for providing them their needs.


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## focomoso (Mar 13, 2019)

Matt K said:


> What will stop them from paying off someone to put their kids in a winning team? When the kids that actually made the effort to get the team to the next level gets kicked out.


College doesn't have promotion and relegation.

That aside, you seem to think your situation is unique, but it happens all the time with every club at every level (from AYSO to professionals). When a team moves up in class, it needs better players to compete. It also attracts better players, which makes it tough for players near the bottom who often get cut.


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## Matt K (Mar 13, 2019)

focomoso said:


> College doesn't have promotion and relegation.
> 
> That aside, you seem to think your situation is unique, but it happens all the time with every club at every level (from AYSO to professionals). When a team moves up in class, it needs better players to compete. It also attracts better players, which makes it tough for players near the bottom who often get cut.


Would something terrible happen to the club if they allowed the players that got them to move up a class to stay on the team for *another year*?
Wouldn't you think that would be a *proper way of treating kids*. I hope I am being clear that we are talking about 12 year old kids.
I would definitely agree with you if they were adults.


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## OCsoccerdad7777 (Mar 13, 2019)

wheresourfield said:


> post the video or a link, enough of us will watch it.





Matt K said:


> Would something terrible happen to the club if they allowed the players that got them to move up a class to stay on the team for *another year*?
> Wouldn't you think that would be a *proper way of treating kids*. I hope I am being clear that we are talking about 12 year old kids.
> I would definitely agree with you if they were adults.


To me it depends on the coach's goals. If he is trying to develop while also being competitive and win, then he may change out players if a better one comes around.

If just trying to develop/have fun and don't care AS much about winning, then sure maybe keep the same players and move up.

Key is don't ever put all your faith in anything club, you will always be disappointed.

Just find a good coach like others have said and get your son to improve whether it's with ayso or not. Move on and don't stress too much about the 6 principles.

Maybe get a private trainer for him and join a rival club in silver. Let your son use this as motivation IF he wants and show the coach he made a mistake and get better.


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## Matt K (Mar 13, 2019)

OCsoccerdad7777 said:


> To me it depends on the coach's goals. If he is trying to develop while also being competitive and win, then he may change out players if a better one comes around.
> 
> If just trying to develop/have fun and don't care AS much about winning, then sure maybe keep the same players and move up.
> 
> ...


Thank you all for your feedback. I hope I was not that much of a headache for all of you. I am very very sorry trying to make my points and I got great advice from most everyone in return. If any parents that need information about AYSO United South OC just reply to my posts and would love to share the truth with you from my experience this past year, it was not that bad but it had a kick in the bud at the end, LOL. But everyone here has been helpful to me.


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## focomoso (Mar 14, 2019)

Matt K said:


> Would something terrible happen to the club if they allowed the players that got them to move up a class to stay on the team for *another year*?
> Wouldn't you think that would be a *proper way of treating kids*. I hope I am being clear that we are talking about 12 year old kids.
> I would definitely agree with you if they were adults.


When your kid made the team, he took another kid's spot. The coach thinks your son will develop better playing with the bronze 05s, which will give the 06s an extra spot to develop another player. I see that as AYSO doing exactly what it's supposed to do: developing both your son and the other player who takes his spot.


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## Matt K (Mar 14, 2019)

focomoso said:


> When your kid made the team, he took another kid's spot. The coach thinks your son will develop better playing with the bronze 05s, which will give the 06s an extra spot to develop another player. I see that as AYSO doing exactly what it's supposed to do: developing both your son and the other player who takes his spot.


Thank you for the reply.  As I mentioned on an other post 4 players had left the team so my son was chosen to play on the team. If we had left the team I belief the coach had every right and could have picked another player, but in this case he should have had the chance to play another year since they did not move to a higher class in the 06s in the previous years.
It is just logical and ethical to give kids that courtesy whether they are good or bad once they are in a team.
Then the following year definitely it would have been the coaches decision to cut anyone he wanted if they did not move to a higher class.
My point is it is all about the timing of a decision we make as adults for kids.


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## Eagle33 (Mar 14, 2019)

Matt K said:


> Thank you for the reply.  As I mentioned on an other post 4 players had left the team so my son was chosen to play on the team. If we had left the team I belief the coach had every right and could have picked another player, but in this case he should have had the chance to play another year since they did not move to a higher class in the 06s in the previous years.
> It is just logical and ethical to give kids that courtesy whether they are good or bad once they are in a team.
> Then the following year definitely it would have been the coaches decision to cut anyone he wanted if they did not move to a higher class.
> My point is it is all about the timing of a decision we make as adults for kids.


How about that video you wanted to post?


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## focomoso (Mar 14, 2019)

Matt K said:


> Then the following year definitely it would have been the coaches decision to cut anyone he wanted if they did not move to a higher class.
> My point is it is all about the timing of a decision we make as adults for kids.


Isn't this what happened? The season ended and your kid was cut. I'm not getting even what your complaint is. Competitive teams cut kids. If they didn't, they wouldn't be competitive.


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## Matt K (Mar 14, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> How about that video you wanted to post?


I emailed it to *MWN please ask him about my sons ability, what he wrote to me is "From a skill perspective, he appears to have the same level of skill as his teammates." Sorry I can not share it with every one and he was the first one to provide me with his email and was a silver level member on the forum so I trusted him.*


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## Speed (Mar 15, 2019)

Messi>CR7 said:


> The one overwhelming advise from people on this forum is to make your team decision based on the coach, not the club.
> 
> You need to have a coach that you trust, and in return he believes in your kid.  It sounds like you have neither in this situation.  It's time to move on and find a better situation for your kid.  It really doesn't matter the club in question is AYSO United, CSL Flight 1, or Manchester United (see Pogba vs Mourinho).
> 
> Best of luck.


This is great advice. Just like a school its all about the teacher you have not about the rest. Choose a coach that nurtures and challenges your child in an appropriate manner, believes in them and gets to know them, and challenges them to perform better. We just left a coach that couldn't do any of the above.


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## Chalklines (Mar 15, 2019)

Matt K said:


> I emailed it to *MWN please ask him about my sons ability, what he wrote to me is "From a skill perspective, he appears to have the same level of skill as his teammates." Sorry I can not share it with every one and he was the first one to provide me with his email and was a silver level member on the forum so I trusted him.*


https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OGC.7398c6b695eb50103763de8084519f43&pid=Api&rurl=https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7buizkGY3lpjjg6k/source.gif&ehk=QcWnpBq8Yhi3fnrmfqPFjw


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