# No games until 2021



## Eagle33 (Oct 11, 2020)

Heard from SCDSL that they will NOT be starting league until January (or later).
We all knew this would happen, specially in Cali, but didn't want to believe. Unfortunately, it's now a reality.
I'm suspecting other leagues will be coming out with similar announcements shortly.


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## Glitterhater (Oct 11, 2020)

Is SCDSL governed under CalSouth? I'm in Norcal, so not familiar.

Norcal has not said a single word. They have a notice pinned to the top of their site basically saying "we have no clue". I'm just wondering if the SCDSL announcement will start a trickle down.


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## mlx (Oct 11, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Heard from SCDSL that they will NOT be starting league until January (or later).
> We all knew this would happen, specially in Cali, but didn't want to believe. Unfortunately, it's now a reality.
> I'm suspecting other leagues will be coming out with similar announcements shortly.


Any idea on NPL West?


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## lafalafa (Oct 11, 2020)

2020 Season Moved to 2021








						Spring 2021 Season
					

SCDSL Return to Play Information: Hello everyone! I hope you all are excited about CA finally opening for Return to Play for youth sports! We have many new member clubs joining us for Spring 2021 and...




					scdslsoccer.com


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## espola (Oct 11, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Is SCDSL governed under CalSouth? I'm in Norcal, so not familiar.
> 
> Norcal has not said a single word. They have a notice pinned to the top of their site basically saying "we have no clue". I'm just wondering if the SCDSL announcement will start a trickle down.


SCDSL Rules say players must be registered by Cal South --

I. ADMINISTRATION
c. Player
Southern California Developmental Soccer League players shall affiliate and comply with the authority of the
California Youth Soccer Association – South (“Cal South”), the United States Youth Soccer Association
(“USYSA”), and the United States Soccer Federation (“USSF”).


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## Paul Spacey (Oct 11, 2020)

CSL will follow suit in the next week or so, along with other leagues. Sounds like maybe ECNL will go ahead in other states but for CA teams, that’s a crap trip to make every weekend.

Protests, campaigns, begging...it all means nothing if our leaders simply don’t want to open up. We’ve been talking about this for months; the whole process has followed a political path in CA and continues to do so.

A small number of teams will play out of state games but for everyone else, expect to see lots more teams/clubs folding or downsizing in the coming months.

Sorry kids; remember when we told you adults would always have your best interests in mind? We lied. Well, some of us did anyway.


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## Footy30 (Oct 11, 2020)

Omg, I know I'm going to sound whiney considering AZ and NV teams do it all the time, but ummmmm does that mean SoCal ECNL teams have to drive out of state for every game?? Even to play teams that are 15 minutes away from us????


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## Chalklines (Oct 11, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> CSL will follow suit in the next week or so, along with other leagues. Sounds like maybe ECNL will go ahead in other states but for CA teams, that’s a crap trip to make every weekend.
> 
> Protests, campaigns, begging...it all means nothing if our leaders simply don’t want to open up. We’ve been talking about this for months; the whole process has followed a political path in CA and continues to do so.
> 
> ...


What are the political benefits of keeping youth sports closed at this point?


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## crush (Oct 11, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> Omg, I know I'm going to sound whiney considering AZ and NV teams do it all the time, but ummmmm does that mean SoCal ECNL teams have to drive out of state for every game?? Even to play teams that are 15 minutes away from us????


Yes, those who want to stay sharp and not play 6 x 6 none contact wall soccer need to go to NV or AZ.  This sucks and 100% hurts the young soccer players in California.  For example, if your 15 year old really good player and you havent played since March, your behind, it's that simple.  Isolation is also taking it's toll and no friends.  Now you wont play until after the New Year and with the third wave coming, no soccer games until late 2021 or even 2022 some say if some people get what they want.  All the other 15 year olds around the country ((except Illinoise and New Mexico)) get to play NOW and stay ahead and in shape and ready for colleges to sign them.  My dd is almost done with all theis BS and will wish you all the best.  This is sic and odd behavior but this is what it is....


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## Paul Spacey (Oct 11, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> What are the political benefits of keeping youth sports closed at this point?


That’s a question to ask Gav, not me.


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## Speed (Oct 11, 2020)

n


Footy30 said:


> Omg, I know I'm going to sound whiney considering AZ and NV teams do it all the time, but ummmmm does that mean SoCal ECNL teams have to drive out of state for every game?? Even to play teams that are 15 minutes away from us????


not laughing at you but with you, I feel your pain.


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## watfly (Oct 11, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> What are the political benefits of keeping youth sports closed at this point?


Opening youth sports puts some pressure on reopening schools.  The teachers unions don't want schools reopened until certain demands are met unrelated to Covid safety like defunding police and the prohibition on new charter schools.  The governors influence and power needed for his future political aspirations are dependent on support from unions.  The Governors decision to prohibit in person learning for the entire state came right on the heels of LAUSD and SDUSD announcing that they were refusing to reopen schools.  I'm open to other explanations, but it is clearly not based on science.  The overwhelming science and recommendations of pediatricians, epidemiologists and national medical organizations support in person learning despite Covid.


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## Soccer Bum 06 (Oct 11, 2020)

watfly said:


> Opening youth sports puts some pressure on reopening schools.  The teachers unions don't want schools reopened until certain demands are met unrelated to Covid safety like defunding police and the prohibition on new charter schools.  The governors influence and power needed for his future political aspirations are dependent on support from unions.  The Governors decision to prohibit in person learning for the entire state came right on the heels of LAUSD and SDUSD announcing that they were refusing to reopen schools.  I'm open to other explanations, but it is clearly not based on science.  The overwhelming science and recommendations of pediatricians, epidemiologists and national medical organizations support in person learning despite Covid.


Used to be that politicians tried to balance constituents/voters needs against their special interests. It has become abundantly clear that special interests run the show. Gavin must be thinking voters will forget about what he has done in 2020 come time for him to run for president. If Disney doesn’t have enough clout to reopen how could we expect youth sports to have any chance.


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## Glitterhater (Oct 11, 2020)

watfly said:


> Opening youth sports puts some pressure on reopening schools.  The teachers unions don't want schools reopened until certain demands are met unrelated to Covid safety like defunding police and the prohibition on new charter schools.  The governors influence and power needed for his future political aspirations are dependent on support from unions.  The Governors decision to prohibit in person learning for the entire state came right on the heels of LAUSD and SDUSD announcing that they were refusing to reopen schools.  I'm open to other explanations, but it is clearly not based on science.  The overwhelming science and recommendations of pediatricians, epidemiologists and national medical organizations support in person learning despite Covid.


I'm not saying I disagree, but up here in Norcal we have several districts open at least in Hybrid-thank god!


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## watfly (Oct 11, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> I'm not saying I disagree, but up here in Norcal we have several districts open at least in Hybrid-thank god!


We do as well but in a pretty conservative community outside of SDUSD. The hybrid learning is a complete joke.  Basically online learning at school but can't leave your desk.  PE is the kids holding a long rope spaced 6 feet apart walking two laps on the track.  We pulled our son from hybrid and he is back at home doing 100% online.  Terrible but better than hybrid which doesn't look anything like real in person learning.


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## Glitterhater (Oct 11, 2020)

watfly said:


> We do as well but in a pretty conservative community outside of SDUSD. The hybrid learning is a complete joke.  Basically online learning at school but can't leave your desk.  PE is the kids holding a long rope spaced 6 feet apart walking two laps on the track.  We pulled our son from hybrid and he is back at home doing 100% online.  Terrible but better than hybrid which doesn't look anything like real in person learning.


Ya, I do agree Hybrid is not the best. My DD was all for it at first, (for the social aspect,) but now is not so sure. Unfortunately, we don't have a great all virtual option. So Hybrid it is. I am happy she's back, but I'm also realistic it's not a perfect setup.


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## chiefs (Oct 11, 2020)

T


watfly said:


> Opening youth sports puts some pressure on reopening schools.  The teachers unions don't want schools reopened until certain demands are met unrelated to Covid safety like defunding police and the prohibition on new charter schools.  The governors influence and power needed for his future political aspirations are dependent on support from unions.  The Governors decision to prohibit in person learning for the entire state came right on the heels of LAUSD and SDUSD announcing that they were refusing to reopen schools.  I'm open to other explanations, but it is clearly not based on science.  The overwhelming science and recommendations of pediatricians, epidemiologists and national medical organizations support in person learning despite Covid.


Absolutely makes sense the way you describe it.  My simple view already is these teachers unions are cowards. I will never forget this. What happened to the land of the free and BRAVE...bunch of gutless cowards.


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## timbuck (Oct 11, 2020)

Can scdsl and cal south take our money and buy a few condos in arizona to be used by so cal teams every weekend?


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## ChrisD (Oct 12, 2020)

The real question is what happens to the money that has been paid now.  I know lots of people that took massive pay cuts during this trying time to stay employed and help the company.  Now that their is No League, What can I expect as a form of credit or refund.  Thats the question
We had hope and that why we paid, now that its confirmed No Play, its time to see what the clubs will do for their teams now


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## timbuck (Oct 12, 2020)

I’d like to see scdsl and coast use this time to come together and reform local club soccer in So Cal.  Figure out a way to keep teams from long drives and make sure all games are competitively bracketed.


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## espola (Oct 12, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I’d like to see scdsl and coast use this time to come together and reform local club soccer in So Cal.  Figure out a way to keep teams from long drives and make sure all games are competitively bracketed.


Sounds like the old Presidio and CSL model of 20 years ago.  Lower levels on the competitive scale, since there are more teams on those levels, were broken up into local circuits, so a team may play its entire season within a radius of 20 miles or so.  At the higher levels, selected through a  pyramid of promotion and relegation, teams had to accept that the higher level play comes with the cost of a wider travel area during the season.  The systems put together by both of those leagues suffered by pressure to win every game in order to achieve promotion for next season (or at least avoid relegation), player development supposedly suffered, player numbers dropped off with age, and the politics in the placement hearings got silly, especially for teams that moved from one club to another.  The result of that was the birth of SCDSL that took out of a lot of CSL teams followed soon after by SDDA operating in parallel with Presidio, replacing and expanding its Premier circuits.


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## Bubba (Oct 12, 2020)

I joke around with my kids and tell them that if Biden wins get ready to play the following weekend and if Trump wins not until there is no corona virus


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## dad4 (Oct 12, 2020)

espola said:


> Sounds like the old Presidio and CSL model of 20 years ago.  Lower levels on the competitive scale, since there are more teams on those levels, were broken up into local circuits, so a team may play its entire season within a radius of 20 miles or so.  At the higher levels, selected through a  pyramid of promotion and relegation, teams had to accept that the higher level play comes with the cost of a wider travel area during the season.  The systems put together by both of those leagues suffered by pressure to win every game in order to achieve promotion for next season (or at least avoid relegation), player development supposedly suffered, player numbers dropped off with age, and the politics in the placement hearings got silly, especially for teams that moved from one club to another.  The result of that was the birth of SCDSL that took out of a lot of CSL teams followed soon after by SDDA operating in parallel with Presidio, replacing and expanding its Premier circuits.


Norcal still mostly operates on that model.  We have one split at the lower levels, but gold-premier are pretty much unified and pro/rel.

It only really gets messed up by ECNL, which still lets in weak teams from strong clubs.


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## MacDre (Oct 12, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> That’s a question to ask Gav, not me.


I asked.  He has none.  In fact, it’s not hard to figure out who I am and the circles I roll in.  The assertion that Sacramento has it in for youth soccer is lame considering my kid plays soccer.  Pure fucking conjecture.


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## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I’d like to see scdsl and coast use this time to come together and reform local club soccer in So Cal.  Figure out a way to keep teams from long drives and make sure all games are competitively bracketed.


This would be nice but it's never going to happen while there are multiple leagues and people view the leagues as status symbols instead of what they were originally intended to be which is tiers of like competition.


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## jimlewis (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I asked.  He has none.  In fact, it’s not hard to figure out who I am and the circles I roll in.  The assertion that Sacramento has it in for youth soccer is lame considering my kid plays soccer.  Pure fucking conjecture.


so ill take the bait.  How do you see this playing out?  There are still a lot of people who are holding out hope that over the next few weeks we will get the go ahead.  Im not one of them.  I just want a response of any sort from the governor.  Is there any chance of that?


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## blam (Oct 12, 2020)

Still fail to see why we don’t switch to playing 6v6 if 6v6 is fine?


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## Speed (Oct 12, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> so ill take the bait.  How do you see this playing out?  There are still a lot of people who are holding out hope that over the next few weeks we will get the go ahead.  Im not one of them.  I just want a response of any sort from the governor.  Is there any chance of that?


no he's an idiot.


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## watfly (Oct 12, 2020)

chiefs said:


> T
> 
> Absolutely makes sense the way you describe it.  My simple view already is these teachers unions are cowards. I will never forget this. What happened to the land of the free and BRAVE...bunch of gutless cowards.


The unions aren't cowards, they're operating under the political mantra of "never let a good crisis go to waste".  The overwhelming majority of teachers want to be and are comfortable being back in class.  My daughter does have a young Spanish teacher that refuses to return to the school but between her and my son that's the only one I'm aware of.


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## Desert Hound (Oct 12, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> Omg, I know I'm going to sound whiney considering AZ and NV teams do it all the time, but ummmmm does that mean SoCal ECNL teams have to drive out of state for every game?? Even to play teams that are 15 minutes away from us????


Right now yes. 

I would bet that the league and clubs try to do the following. 

ECNL showcase. Have So Cal teams play each other and use that as league games. 

In other tournaments/showcases out of state try to have So Cal teams play each other and use as league games. 

Not ideal, but would be a way to get the games in they need.


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## MacDre (Oct 12, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> so ill take the bait.  How do you see this playing out?  There are still a lot of people who are holding out hope that over the next few weeks we will get the go ahead.  Im not one of them.  I just want a response of any sort from the governor.  Is there any chance of that?


I think that if youth soccer is closed when my kid has to report back to Fuerzas Basicas at Club Tijuana then folks can complain.  Professional Academies have an incentive to protect their players/investments and keep them out of harms way so, they have not resumed play and/or practice.  On the other hand, pay to play is all about coaches getting paid and they are attempting to do what’s in the best interest of the coaches and not the kids.  Newson is not in charge of the Academy programs in Mexico or the FIFA pilot development program in Mexico and neither has returned to play.
I’ve been told to be ready by January by the folks at Club Tijuana.

The folks in Sacramento are trying to do what’s in the best interest of the kids.  If they move prematurely, kids could face irreparable harm.  Why take unnecessary risk when kids can do other activities like skating and biking for example that will make them better athletes until this COVID thing fully plays out?


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## EOTL (Oct 12, 2020)

chiefs said:


> T
> 
> Absolutely makes sense the way you describe it.  My simple view already is these teachers unions are cowards. I will never forget this. What happened to the land of the free and BRAVE...bunch of gutless cowards.


Yes, we know you are simple. And a gutless coward who is so spineless that he can’t handle his kids attending school online. So spineless, in fact, that’s he’s blaming freakin’ teachers for his woes. What, still upset about that D- in pre-algebra all those years ago?

Man, I am beginning to really enjoy this pandemic. It is clear that people who are the most whiny are the ones who are most responsible for the predicament in which they find themselves. The lack of self-awareness is astounding.


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## crush (Oct 12, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Right now yes.
> 
> I would bet that the league and clubs try to do the following.
> 
> ...


I love that Idea.  Showcase all the leagues that want to be showcased in AZ. Moutain, Desert, Socal and Norcal to name a few  League games matter because you need the points and that will mean that all the games will have,* "un alto nivel de ganas" *and that will make game film better for college coaches and for the player.  No more individual showcases to show off one's juggling and helicopter sizzor move, but a team showcase with players playing together to win at all cost!!!.  I will drive to Vegas and AZ for that format all day long.  This is all going to be just find after Nov 3rd.  Be kind to another and all will go well with you and your loved ones


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## Paul Spacey (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I think that if youth soccer is closed when my kid has to report back to Fuerzas Basicas at Club Tijuana then folks can complain.  Professional Academies have an incentive to protect their players/investments and keep them out of harms way so, they have not resumed play and/or practice.  On the other hand, pay to play is all about coaches getting paid and they are attempting to do what’s in the best interest of the coaches and not the kids.  Newson is not in charge of the Academy programs in Mexico or the FIFA pilot development program in Mexico and neither has returned to play.
> I’ve been told to be ready by January by the folks at Club Tijuana.
> 
> The folks in Sacramento are trying to do what’s in the best interest of the kids.  If they move prematurely, kids could face irreparable harm.  Why take unnecessary risk when kids can do other activities like skating and biking for example that will make them better athletes until this COVID thing fully plays out?


If we had seen large outbreaks or health issues in other states following the return to youth sport, I would agree with you. But that hasn’t happened, so it’s very difficult to accept that Sac and Gav are basing their decisions on science and safety.

Maybe it will help if I start wearing my mask between bites.


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## MacDre (Oct 12, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> If we had seen large outbreaks or health issues in other states following the return to youth sport, I would agree with you. But that hasn’t happened, so it’s very difficult to accept that Sac and Gav are basing their decisions on science and safety.
> 
> Maybe it will help if I start wearing my mask between bites.


Maybe maybe not...I think the jury is still out on this one.  Better safe than sorry.  Why gamble with your kids health?


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## notintheface (Oct 12, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> This is the best possible opportunity for that to happen. It’s doubtful of course for many reasons but if it’s ever going to happen, now is probably the time.


It will never happen while CSL uses pro/rel to push a U9 coach to play kickball. Never. There are so many youngers coaches that are absolutely disgusted with pro/rel. Maybe some kind of modified system where a team that wins X% of their games can only play silver or higher, but the current system is irreparably broken. That is the division and that's what needs to be fixed first.



> If we had seen large outbreaks or health issues in other states following the return to youth sport, I would agree with you. But that hasn’t happened, so it’s very difficult to accept that Sac and Gav are basing their decisions on science and safety.


Since we as a country don't have accurate contact tracing it's impossible to say either way; however, we are seeing the start of the second wave. Daily cases in places like Indiana and Minnesota are nearly as high as in Florida. Personally I think it's safe to move to phase 2 of the return-to-play program; let teams practice closely and test the kids on a regular basis to see if there is community spread inside the team.


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## jimlewis (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Maybe maybe not...I think the jury is still out on this one.  Better safe than sorry.  Why gamble with your kids health?


If that's the argument, because the numbers state that covid for kids under the age of 15 is no worse than the flu, then why ever have in person schooling?


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## Paul Spacey (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Maybe maybe not...I think the jury is still out on this one.  Better safe than sorry.  Why gamble with your kids health?


And there is no argument against that; nobody wants to gamble. But at some point with everything (not just Covid) you have to weigh up risk. Some previous posters have pointed this out more eloquently than I can.

So far there is nothing (unless I am mistaken) that suggests kids are at risk from returning to games. If we were talking about days or weeks of evidence, again I’d agree with you that erring on the side of caution might be the best thing to do but many states have been playing for months with no issues.


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## MacDre (Oct 12, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> If that's the argument, because the numbers state that covid for kids under the age of 15 is no worse than the flu, then why ever have in person schooling?


Most kids under 15 are not emancipated and live with adults and depend on the adults for support.  I’m confused as to why your analysis only considers kids under 15.  
The problem is not Sacramento.  The problem is that you are not looking at the totality of circumstances and your analysis is lacking.


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## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

Bubba said:


> I joke around with my kids and tell them that if Biden wins get ready to play the following weekend and if Trump wins not until there is no corona virus


You joke but it's likely the truth.


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## pokergod (Oct 12, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> That’s a question to ask Gav, not me.


We are still in the first wave.  Most other countries are just getting hit by second wave.  The worst outbreaks right now are in states in the upper mid west that were open with no mask requirements.  Other than that, your posts are spot on.


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## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Yes, we know you are simple. And a gutless coward who is so spineless that he can’t handle his kids attending school online. So spineless, in fact, that’s he’s blaming freakin’ teachers for his woes. What, still upset about that D- in pre-algebra all those years ago?
> 
> Man, I am beginning to really enjoy this pandemic. It is clear that people who are the most whiny are the ones who are most responsible for the predicament in which they find themselves. The lack of self-awareness is astounding.


You are en fuego today.  You do you.


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## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Maybe maybe not...I think the jury is still out on this one.  Better safe than sorry.  Why gamble with your kids health?


Because the kids aren't getting it seriously, and unless you are taking the same precautions to protect the kids during flu season, it isn't rational.  You can argue that we need to protect the families living with them....at least that's a valid argument,...but at this point "think of the children" is anti-science fear mongering.


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## jimlewis (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Most kids under 15 are not emancipated and live with adults and depend on the adults for support.  I’m confused as to why your analysis only considers kids under 15.
> The problem is not Sacramento.  The problem is that you are not looking at the totality of circumstances and your analysis is lacking.


I was addressing your question "why gamble with your kids health?".  I understand the totality of the situation, and we all know who is at risk at this point.   Most(not all and not addressing comorbities!)  parents of kids under the age of 15 are not in the elderly category.  whatever, I get it.  you can say dont visit grandparents and all that all day long but the transmission chain can be made to get there regardless.  What is silly is there are so many underground activities now and out of state tournaments being traveled to, why not open it and then regulate it, that way you have the benefit of the money spent and oversight?   we are now getting into another thread, ill stop here.


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## davin (Oct 12, 2020)

Soccer Bum 06 said:


> Used to be that politicians tried to balance constituents/voters needs against their special interests. It has become abundantly clear that special interests run the show. Gavin must be thinking voters will forget about what he has done in 2020 come time for him to run for president. If Disney doesn’t have enough clout to reopen how could we expect youth sports to have any chance.


Club soccer most definitely is a "special interest", but public health is not.


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## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> And there is no argument against that; nobody wants to gamble. But at some point with everything (not just Covid) you have to weigh up risk. Some previous posters have pointed this out more eloquently than I can.
> 
> So far there is nothing (unless I am mistaken) that suggests kids are at risk from returning to games. If we were talking about days or weeks of evidence, again I’d agree with you that erring on the side of caution might be the best thing to do but many states have been playing for months with no issues.


Because in this case, the risk has been politicized.  Science has been politicized.  Politics have hijacked every aspect of life, especially in states like CA.

The suggestion that you should mask up  in between bites of food speaks volumes.


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## espola (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Maybe maybe not...I think the jury is still out on this one.  Better safe than sorry.  Why gamble with your kids health?


Especially since we don't really know yet what the stakes are.  Covid is already known to attack more than just the lungs, and it has been identified for less than a year so we don't know what the long-term issues might be.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 12, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I’d like to see scdsl and coast use this time to come together and reform local club soccer in So Cal.  Figure out a way to keep teams from long drives and make sure all games are competitively bracketed.


If you think about what's happening this year and through the summer of 2021, this makes sense.  Today we are already seeing a reduction in teams in CSL. SCDSL has not released the registered teams but I believe that they will see a  20% to 30% reduction. 

 I was always optimistic and certain that the 2020 season would begin in November.    Now that the season might begin in January (that's a big assumption)? I think that this gives a chance for parents to walk away from soccer until things settle down.    The fact is we might not see any soccer until there's a widely distributed vaccine and this is estimated to happen in May/June or 2021. 

SCDSL and CSL should take this time to merge and come up with a strong league going into the fall of 2021.


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## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Because in this case, the risk has been politicized.  Science has been politicized.  Politics have hijacked every aspect of life, especially in states like CA.
> 
> The suggestion that you should mask up  in between bites of food speaks volumes.


The best part of that particular tweet was that it was accompanied by a graphic saying make sure not to touch your mask.


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## watfly (Oct 12, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> And there is no argument against that; nobody wants to gamble. But at some point with everything (not just Covid) you have to weigh up risk. Some previous posters have pointed this out more eloquently than I can.
> 
> So far there is nothing (unless I am mistaken) that suggests kids are at risk from returning to games. If we were talking about days or weeks of evidence, again I’d agree with you that erring on the side of caution might be the best thing to do but many states have been playing for months with no issues.


In San Diego County .009% of those aged 0-19 have been hospitalized with Covid.  Zero, zip, zilch. 0% have died from Covid in this age group.  Statewide there have been 2 deaths for those aged 0-17.  However, we should never let facts and data take precedent over a good emotional argument.


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## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I was always optimistic and certain that the 2020 season would begin in November.    Now that the season might begin in January (that's a big assumption)? I think that this gives a chance for parents to walk away from soccer until things settle down.    The fact is we might not see any soccer until there's a widely distributed vaccine and this is estimated to happen in May/June or 2021.


Because the pediatric doses are running behind, for the under 16s it's unlikely to get "wide distribution" of those doses until Summer 2021.  16-17 ???.  They'll also be resistance in some quarters but some of the vaccines are also producing some side effects (nothing serious....just fevers, headaches, vomiting, nauseau...in some people as long as a week....particularly in the higher dose vaccines being tested....not sure how wide spread those are but enough that you'll hear friend of a friend stories). So you aren't looking at the under 18 set being vaccinated until schools force the issue (or maybe the state does...requiring vaccination in order to plsy in summer tournaments/athletic events).


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## watfly (Oct 12, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Because in this case, the risk has been politicized.  Science has been politicized.  Politics have hijacked every aspect of life, especially in states like CA.
> 
> The suggestion that you should mask up  in between bites of food speaks volumes.


You're being too hard on the Governor.  In fact, just this week he has generously allowed us to host two other families at our homes as long as its outdoors and the guests only come inside to use the restroom.  I can barely keep up with his pace of reopening the State...whoa.


----------



## TOSDCI (Oct 12, 2020)

watfly said:


> Opening youth sports puts some pressure on reopening schools.  The teachers unions don't want schools reopened until certain demands are met unrelated to Covid safety like defunding police and the prohibition on new charter schools.  The governors influence and power needed for his future political aspirations are dependent on support from unions.  The Governors decision to prohibit in person learning for the entire state came right on the heels of LAUSD and SDUSD announcing that they were refusing to reopen schools.  I'm open to other explanations, but it is clearly not based on science.  The overwhelming science and recommendations of pediatricians, epidemiologists and national medical organizations support in person learning despite Covid.


Completely agree with you.  If you open Disneyland, parents will question why they can take their kids to Disney but not attend school.  If you open sports, they will ask why can't my kids attend school.  These are questions that the powers that be don't want to answer.  There is absolutely no scientific reason to keep soccer shut down until 2021.  We can see that from the results of high school and club sports being opened for several months in other states.  There is a political reason.  The opening of sports will coincide with the opening of the large public school districts in So Cal.


----------



## soccersc (Oct 12, 2020)

What is so confusing for me is the inconsistency of it all.  I know there are basketball tournaments going on in southern california every weekend, inside a packed gym with as many as 10 games going on at the same time.  You can drive around and see baseball games going on at parks all over, but soccer can not even get a scrimmage in against their own teammates?


----------



## socalkdg (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Maybe maybe not...I think the jury is still out on this one.  Better safe than sorry.  Why gamble with your kids health?


But you are gambling with their health.   Many kids only play soccer.   Kids have now quit soccer, and more will follow.   Obesity rates will go up for these teens due to inactivity.  Minorities are hit the hardest by obesity.  Obesity takes away years of life.  Throw in the fact that infection rates outside are up to 10x less than inside, along with the limited infection rates for kids playing soccer, not playing is worse for kids than playing during this epidemic.   I don't see this as political as almost every state has reopened for soccer.  California is the lone holdout.


----------



## timbuck (Oct 12, 2020)

notintheface said:


> *It will never happen while CSL uses pro/rel to push a U9 coach to play kickball. Never. There are so many youngers coaches that are absolutely disgusted with pro/rel. Maybe some kind of modified system where a team that wins X% of their games can only play silver or higher, but the current system is irreparably broken. That is the division and that's what needs to be fixed first.*
> 
> 
> 
> Since we as a country don't have accurate contact tracing it's impossible to say either way; however, we are seeing the start of the second wave. Daily cases in places like Indiana and Minnesota are nearly as high as in Florida. Personally I think it's safe to move to phase 2 of the return-to-play program; let teams practice closely and test the kids on a regular basis to see if there is community spread inside the team.


I think this is a chance for CSL and SCDSL to find a new model.  The "Elite" leagues of ECNL, MLS Next, GAL, etc have changed things dramatically for "local" clubs.  These 2 leagues need to figure out a way to adapt.  The clubs that formed SCDSL (for the most part) are the clubs that have their top teams in  the "Elite" leagues.  They dont care as much about SCDSL as they used to.  So Cal needs a shift to keep up with the times.

I've proposed something like this in the past, but now is the time to figure it out.

You have 1 So Cal league with 6 geographies-

Surf Cup/Oceanside Division for teams in San Diego
Great Park Division for OC teams
Silverlakes Division for East County Teams
Long Beach/South LA (is there a field complex there to use?  Maybe play in at Dignity Health Park in Carson)
The Valley - Is Lancaster drive-able?
The Desert  - Somewhere in Palm Springs

Within each geographic division - you have 3 flights.  The season starts with a 3 game "Showcase" where teams self seed into the division they think they belong in (no guest players allowed).  After these 3 games, teams are seeded according to their performance over these 3 games.  (Even have a Cal-South rep walking around to make sure teams aren't sandbagging by winning a game by 2 but playing keep away for 70 minutes).
During the season, any team that wins or loses by 7 goals, is immediately moved up/down a division.

Have a 10 game season where you play teams within your geography and division.
Then 3 weeks of inter-league play where you play other geographies, but that are your same flight-  2 games per weekend for 3 weeks.

Finish it up with State Cup "luck of the draw" for all teams across all division -  1 big tournament without divisions.


----------



## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

watfly said:


> You're being too hard on the Governor.  In fact, just this week he has generously allowed us to host two other families at our homes as long as its outdoors and the guests only come inside to use the restroom.  I can barely keep up with his pace of reopening the State...whoa.


It's pretty crazy to look at from our foxhole..


----------



## soccersc (Oct 12, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> Completely agree with you.  If you open Disneyland, parents will question why they can take their kids to Disney but not attend school.  If you open sports, they will ask why can't my kids attend school.  These are questions that the powers that be don't want to answer.  There is absolutely no scientific reason to keep soccer shut down until 2021.  We can see that from the results of high school and club sports being opened for several months in other states.  There is a political reason.  The opening of sports will coincide with the opening of the large public school districts in So Cal.


You are right on...and no way schools are opening up like regular this year, it will be a hybrid at best.  If schools aren't open, fields will not be open. It will be interesting to see what happens with high school sports, club sports will be riding on it.


----------



## gauchosean (Oct 12, 2020)

Chalklines said:


> What are the political benefits of keeping youth sports closed at this point?


The democrats are trying to prevent anything positive from happening until after the election and trying to stick the negative to Trump. Conversely in Red states the republicans are pushing forward giving all positive credit to the Trump. Youth sports are just a pawn in the political chess game.


----------



## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The best part of that particular tweet was that it was accompanied by a graphic saying make sure not to touch your mask.


I originally thought it was satire.


----------



## espola (Oct 12, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Because in this case, the risk has been politicized.  Science has been politicized.  Politics have hijacked every aspect of life, especially in states like CA.
> 
> The suggestion that you should mask up  in between bites of food speaks volumes.


Your suggestion that science has been politicized speaks volumes.


----------



## socalkdg (Oct 12, 2020)

notintheface said:


> It will never happen while CSL uses pro/rel to push a U9 coach to play kickball. Never. There are so many youngers coaches that are absolutely disgusted with pro/rel. Maybe some kind of modified system where a team that wins X% of their games can only play silver or higher, but the current system is irreparably broken. That is the division and that's what needs to be fixed first.


Our club has never played kickball.   Started at U10, went from Bronze and now at Premier at U16.   Bronze, Bronze, Silver, Silver, Silver Elite, Gold, Premier.  Nothing wrong with pro/rel.  Coach fundamentals early.  Play solid defense.   Usually had 2-3 clubs go up, 1 go down, 4 stay at same level.  I think parents are more of the issue and have status issues.


----------



## paytoplay (Oct 12, 2020)

Bubba said:


> I joke around with my kids and tell them that if Biden wins get ready to play the following weekend and if Trump wins not until there is no corona virus


Then the title of this thread is wrong. Should be corrected to: No games til November 4


----------



## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

espola said:


> Your suggestion that science has been politicized speaks volumes.


It should, because it has, by both sides.  To think that only one side is politicizing science is laughable, naive, or....political.  Many on both sides are sheep.  Sheep truly don't recognize they are being herded, they just go in the direction that the others go.  It's a perfect analogy for today's political environment.  "Science"  is being used as a tool to herd sheep.


----------



## notintheface (Oct 12, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Our club has never played kickball.   Started at U10, went from Bronze and now at Premier at U16.   Bronze, Bronze, Silver, Silver, Silver Elite, Gold, Premier.  Nothing wrong with pro/rel.  Coach fundamentals early.  Play solid defense.   Usually had 2-3 clubs go up, 1 go down, 4 stay at same level.  I think parents are more of the issue and have status issues.


Please understand that your club is a complete aberration from the norm, and yes, pro/rel for a 9 year-old is just as insane as it sounds.


----------



## Eagle33 (Oct 12, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I think this is a chance for CSL and SCDSL to find a new model.  The "Elite" leagues of ECNL, MLS Next, GAL, etc have changed things dramatically for "local" clubs.  These 2 leagues need to figure out a way to adapt.  The clubs that formed SCDSL (for the most part) are the clubs that have their top teams in  the "Elite" leagues.  They dont care as much about SCDSL as they used to.  So Cal needs a shift to keep up with the times.
> 
> I've proposed something like this in the past, but now is the time to figure it out.
> 
> ...


We already have this model, it's called AYSO


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2020)

[


notintheface said:


> Please understand that your club is a complete aberration from the norm, and yes, pro/rel for a 9 year-old is just as insane as it sounds.


Even from the description the team started 2 seasons in bronze.  In some clubs that absolutely demand a promoted team age 8-10 that's enough to get the coach let go (or at a minimum for the team to suffer some major disruptions).  Assuming the team didn't use the other gold old strategy (lose the dead weight, promote in some really fast kids),, I'd be curious to hear how they managed to hold it together that long in the early years.


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> We already have this model, it's called AYSO


AYSO until recently with Extras and United didn't tier their rec like the rest of the world.  And in the rest of the world, everyone except the future pros play rec.  Even if we wanted to make a tiered system, everything is so fractured and AYSO no longer has its monopoly that it wouldn't work.


----------



## notintheface (Oct 12, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I think this is a chance for CSL and SCDSL to find a new model.
> You have 1 So Cal league with 6 geographies-
> Within each geographic division - you have 3 flights.
> During the season, any team that wins or loses by 7 goals, is immediately moved up/down a division.
> ...


On paper this sounds really great-- but the logistics make this unworkable. Here's what you have to keep in mind:

1) Coaches have to schedule conflicts based on driving time, etc., well in advance, so they can trade spots within their club. ("Cover me on weekend A, and I'll cover you on weekend B"). Moving teams up or down within a season makes this impossible.

2) Parents have to schedule the same for families where more than one kid plays. Again, unless all teams play at the same complexes constantly, you can't ask parents to be able to juggle this, it's just impossible.

3) There are too many teams out there to have all the teams play at the same complexes constantly.

4) It is impossible to stop unscrupulous coaches from sandbagging their "placement" games, and they don't even have to have the kids in on the scam. All it takes is for them to sit their best goalscorer or instruct the kids to use these games to learn how to play out of the back, and then the natural mistakes lead to losses.

5) It is impossible to stop unscrupulous clubs from using club pass players to win specific games.

I think it's important to recognize that any kind of team placement situation (I hesitate to call it pro/rel because it shouldn't be tied to record) can and will be gamed by parents and coaches who want to win. You can't go around implementing any kind of game monitoring system because that requires a level of coordination that neither Cal South, nor the leagues, have any incentive to invest in.

The reality is this-- you have four buckets of teams out there:

Beginners, who are just above rec level, just starting out and learning the game. It is in everyone's vested interest to have these teams play each other and only each other. It's fine for one of these teams who has a super athletic kid play up front and score a ton of goals who winds up being their bracket's mvp, you're always going to have that one kid playing above their league. What you want to avoid is having one of these teams wind up playing against established teams and get blown out all the time-- that winds up getting teams to disband. Classify these teams as having 0-1 years of experience tops or eligible teams from the bracket above who won less than 25% of their games.

Competitive teams who have a hard time winning. These are the teams who will challenge any other team but for whatever reason have a hard time scoring goals, or still make more mistakes on defense than they can make up for on offense, you know the drill. Classify these teams as 2-4 years of experience or coaches self-select teams from the bracket above who won less than 25% of their games, or coaches self-select teams from the bracket below who won more than 50% of their games.

Competitive teams who can close out a game. These are teams from the below bracket who have more scoring threats. They will consistently beat other competitive teams but who have a hard time eg winning a tournament when they go up against upper tier teams. Classify these teams as 3-5 years of experience, or coaches self-select teams from the bracket above who won less than 25% of their games, or coaches self-select teams from the bracket below who won more than 50% of their games.

Upper tier teams. These are the teams ready to take the step to what used to be the DA, or ECNL, etc etc. They will consistently win tournaments. Classify these teams as 3+ years of experience with coaches only self-selecting these teams but who have to have won 50% of their games from last year.

I think this is a good balance-- coaches aren't forced to win every single game, there is clear progression here, and there isn't automatic pro/rel for kids. Every game needs to be competitive but we recognize that there will be a percentage of games that simply won't be competitive. This kind of bracketing doesn't require any additional infrastructure to implement, lets the unscrupulous coaches stay within their lower brackets if they just want to win their Europa League, and the number of blowout matches is kept to a minimum.


----------



## notintheface (Oct 12, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> In some clubs that absolutely demand a promoted team age 8-10 that's enough to get the coach let go (or at a minimum for the team to suffer some major disruptions).


This sentence, right here, is part of the reason why the US lags behind the world by such a huge amount.


----------



## timbuck (Oct 12, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> We already have this model, it's called AYSO


Honestly-  With the creation of all of these elite leagues-  AYSO should become more relevant.  (It won't. But it should)


----------



## Glitterhater (Oct 12, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Because in this case, the risk has been politicized.  Science has been politicized.  Politics have hijacked every aspect of life, especially in states like CA.
> 
> The suggestion that you should mask up  in between bites of food speaks volumes.


Was this really requested? Like, take a bite of your sandwich, mask on, chew, mask down, bite.. rinse, repeat???


----------



## futboldad1 (Oct 12, 2020)

I understood it as wear your mask before your food arrives and after you've finished eating it.......... but I could be wrong as this is Gavin we are talking about......


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Was this really requested? Like, take a bite of your sandwich, mask on, chew, mask down, bite.. rinse, repeat???




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312437371460173825


----------



## futboldad1 (Oct 12, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312437371460173825


That does not mean remove/add between each bite......


----------



## MacDre (Oct 12, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> But you are gambling with their health.   *Many kids only play soccer.   *


Pathetic.  Lacks balance.  At high risk for injury.  So, this looks like a perfect opportunity to diversify and develop some athleticism so those kids can minimize risk of injury playing soccer.


----------



## espola (Oct 12, 2020)

happy9 said:


> It should, because it has, by both sides.  To think that only one side is politicizing science is laughable, naive, or....political.  Many on both sides are sheep.  Sheep truly don't recognize they are being herded, they just go in the direction that the others go.  It's a perfect analogy for today's political environment.  "Science"  is being used as a tool to herd sheep.


q.e.d.


----------



## futboldad1 (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Pathetic.  Lacks balance.  At high risk for injury.  So, this looks like a perfect opportunity to diversify and develop some athleticism so those kids can minimize risk of injury playing soccer.


His post was not pathetic but your rude response kinda is......


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> That does not mean remove/add between each bite......


A fair defense of this is to say hey we all are human and people make mistakes...by "bites" he meant colloquially a meal or a course at a meal....he (or the intern posting it) just shoulda been more clear.

It is not a fair defense to say "That does not mean remove/add between each bite" when the language clearly states "don't forget to keep your mask on in between bites".

I swear the Internets is reaching true levels of gaslighting.  We have always been at war with East Asia.


----------



## futboldad1 (Oct 12, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> A fair defense of this is to say hey we all are human and people make mistakes...by "bites" he meant colloquially a meal or a course at a meal....he (or the intern posting it) just shoulda been more clear.
> 
> It is not a fair defense to say "That does not mean remove/add between each bite" when the language clearly states "don't forget to keep your mask on in between bites".
> 
> I swear the Internets is reaching true levels of gaslighting.  We have always been at war with East Asia.


I hope the gaslighting comment is not aimed at me........ but yikes, if "bites" truly means each bite this is really really dumb........


----------



## Keepermom2 (Oct 12, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> That does not mean remove/add between each bite......


You are correct.  The center picture shows a full plate of food being eaten and the picture when the mask is put back on the plate is empty and the napkin is being taken off the lap as if to say done.


----------



## timbuck (Oct 12, 2020)

notintheface said:


> On paper this sounds really great-- but the logistics make this unworkable. Here's what you have to keep in mind:
> 
> 1) Coaches have to schedule conflicts based on driving time, etc., well in advance, so they can trade spots within their club. ("Cover me on weekend A, and I'll cover you on weekend B"). Moving teams up or down within a season makes this impossible.
> 
> ...


Do you think the current SCDSL and Coast set up is a good one? 
My proposal aint perfect -  but I think it's better than what we have now. Maybe remove the "immediate bump up or down" if you have a blowout.
But coaches and parents driving all over for other teams/kids is something we already have.


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> I hope the gaslighting comment is not aimed at me........ but yikes, if "bites" truly means each bite this is really really dumb........


I think it's fair to say he made a mistake and made a stupid statement he didn't really mean.  Nevertheless, it was a mistake and his statement is stupid, even if he didn't intend it that way.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 12, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> And there is no argument against that; nobody wants to gamble. But at some point with everything (not just Covid) you have to weigh up risk. Some previous posters have pointed this out more eloquently than I can.
> 
> So far there is nothing (unless I am mistaken) that suggests kids are at risk from returning to games. If we were talking about days or weeks of evidence, again I’d agree with you that erring on the side of caution might be the best thing to do but many states have been playing for months with no issues.


The risk is the unknown.  What’s the benefit of rushing back to soccer?  Again, why can’t kids ride bike, skateboards, surf etc for physical activity?

I understand the rush back to soccer from the coaches perspective because we are talking about their livelihood and I am very sympathetic to that.
However, I have yet to hear 1 valid reason for rushing back to soccer for kids because it’s not in their best interest.  Learning how to skate, rides bikes, and surf etc. is in the best interest of kids until we have more information.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Oct 12, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> Completely agree with you.  If you open Disneyland, parents will question why they can take their kids to Disney but not attend school.  If you open sports, they will ask why can't my kids attend school.  These are questions that the powers that be don't want to answer.  There is absolutely no scientific reason to keep soccer shut down until 2021.  We can see that from the results of high school and club sports being opened for several months in other states.  There is a political reason.  The opening of sports will coincide with the opening of the large public school districts in So Cal.


I think you have given our State too much credit for thinking....as I have said before, I believe we haven't even been a thought process.  They slapped a 1 page memo together 2.5 months ago lumping all youth sports together and haven't thought about us since then.  If we are even on the radar screen we are a low priority which is why they haven't addressed youth sports at all.


----------



## Desert Hound (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> The risk is the unknown.


The risk is known per the CDC. 

Under 19 individuals have a survival rate of 99.997. 

Put another way if 1 million people under the age of 19 get covid, 30 die.

So the risk is known. There is no real risk.


----------



## Paul Spacey (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> The risk is the unknown.  What’s the benefit of rushing back to soccer?  Again, why can’t kids ride bike, skateboards, surf etc for physical activity?
> 
> I understand the rush back to soccer from the coaches perspective because we are talking about their livelihood and I am very sympathetic to that.
> However, I have yet to hear 1 valid reason for rushing back to soccer for kids because it’s not in their best interest.  Learning how to skate, rides bikes, and surf etc. is in the best interest of kids until we have more information.


ALL of those other things you mention are great; kids should diversify and enjoy doing different stuff. But if the science suggests that returning to soccer games isn’t an issue, it shouldn’t be drawn out necessarily. We can argue all day over the reasons behind that; it’s been done enough already.

My posts and position is always transparent so let me be clear on this issue; I am not struggling in any way financially and whether or not kids play games isn’t going to make a difference to me from a financial perspective. I have other means of making money, as do many coaches.

When I post about kids returning to games or consolidating leagues or less travel or more development over winning or less marketing bullshit and all of that stuff, it’s because I care about two things; one, the kids and two, improving the game here in the US. I sometimes wonder whether some people intentionally look to stifle one or both of those things; that is something I find very difficult to understand and accept.


----------



## espola (Oct 12, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> The risk is known per the CDC.
> 
> Under 19 individuals have a survival rate of 99.997.
> 
> ...


The immediate risk is pretty well pegged by now.  Nobody has enough experience yet to know the long-term risk.


----------



## notintheface (Oct 12, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Do you think the current SCDSL and Coast set up is a good one?
> My proposal aint perfect -  but I think it's better than what we have now. Maybe remove the "immediate bump up or down" if you have a blowout.
> But coaches and parents driving all over for other teams/kids is something we already have.


I think the SCDSL setup is far, far better than Coast's. Coaches aren't punished for innovating and developing their team's tactics during league play. Here's a good thought experiment for you-- how many U10 Coast teams do you know who have precisely one kid who throws the ball in, because they're the kid who can keep that back foot from lifting off the ground? Now how many U10 SCDSL teams do you know where a coach is unafraid to spread out the throw-in duties because they aren't afraid of shipping a goal off a possession change? This sounds like a really tiny inconsequential detail but it is a symptom of the larger problem of pro/rel for kids. Every single kid on a team, save for the GK, should be on throw-in duty when they are younger, just so they get experience in a competitive environment. Let the kid lose possession 5, 10, 100 times before they understand the concept of checking in and dragging your toe. Coast does not allow for that luxury.

I 100% agree with you that coaches should not have to brave multiple hours on the road in Southern California Traffic (tm) on the weekends. 100%. But at the very least the system that is currently in place, where you know your games ahead of time, allows coaches to predict their commutes and therefore work within their club to trade slots when needed. Any kind of system where you don't know your next week's opponent until after the results of your last couple of matches is untenable for scheduling.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 12, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> The risk is known per the CDC.
> 
> Under 19 individuals have a survival rate of 99.997.
> 
> ...


What’s the survival rate of their parents? Coaches? Teachers? Those living in rest homes, or in hospitals, grocery stores, office buildings etc working next to all these kids’ parents? If 1 million people under 30 get it, how many people who they transmit it to will die?

The risk is known apparently, so please tell us.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 12, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> His post was not pathetic but your rude response kinda is......


What’s rude about the truth?  Balance is very important concept in life and if a kid “only” plays soccer, I maintain that is a sad pathetic situation to be in.  What do you have against balance and minimizing injury?


----------



## northeastlafc (Oct 12, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I’d like to see scdsl and coast use this time to come together and reform local club soccer in So Cal.  Figure out a way to keep teams from long drives and make sure all games are competitively bracketed.


As someone who grew up in the system and is now running an organization of his own, I couldn’t agree more. Pro/Rel is what makes the game “THE GAME”. If you as a parent thinks that pro/rel and win at all costs is a bad philosophy to instill on children playing U9 you are in your absolute right to think so. But if that’s your take then leagues like CSL or SCDSL are NOT for you, perhaps the Cal South Signature League or the Intercity League (I think they’re the same) is where you want to be. Or even the countless Cal South Rec Leagues like Anahuak YSA for example and AYSO will forever be an option.  

I was in high school when SCDSL was formed and I used to trip out at why one of the clubs near to me (Downtown LA SC) were traveling to San Diego to play ONE flight 2 league game. Or why some clubs were top tiered in Coast now have some Flight 3 teams. In my opinion the SCDSL philosophy sucks where coaches can select (through petition supposedly) which flight they’re going to play in. Add to that the majority of the clubs who broke away from Coast to found SCDSL don’t even have their top teams in the so called Discovery, Flight 1 Europa or Flight 1 Champions (just call it two different flights PLEASE) and will play ECNL or MLS Next or GA if we’re talking about the girls side too.

That whole status thing with parents actually exists and sometimes it can even trickle down to their kids. I had a friend who was boasting how he played in SCDSL flight 1 and when we looked on our phones for the standings that his team was 0-6 he stayed quiet. I know parents that have that sticker on their car flexing that their kid plays for “this ECNL club, this GA academy” blah blah blah. It’s why clubs like LA Surf take their teams away from Coast and put them into the SCDSL. It’s hard to imagine whoever runs LA Surf-Hollywood or LA Surf-Sherman Oaks to be okay with having to travel to Orange County (where the majority of the SCDSL teams are located) just because the head honchos at La Cañada wanted a move. And to add to the greater misfortune, this is how the game is ran at the professional levels too where clubs select what tier they enter as long as they have the money for it, with no pro/rel in order to cement the status of a team. Picture Dignity Health Sports Park with a major drop in attendance just because the Galaxy dropped down a tier. So sometimes I also believe it’s the entitled peoples faults and clubs see this and continue to do things the way they do because suckers will always fall for whatever bs that club is selling.

Pro/rel let’s you see stories like local league teams (Mexican leagues as they’re referred to here) starting their own clubs at Bronze and working their way up, with some even winning the State Cup which is prestigious to a club who started out in the local leagues. It allows you to stay regional if you’re in the lower tiers and allow the opportunity to travel now that you’re in a higher tier because it was earned through merit. It gives you the prestige of knocking out a higher level team in the league cup. 

In conclusion, Coast SL had it right from the beginning. It’s obvious that a breakaway also had to do with politics and not just because folks are thinking about the children. If both leagues were to come together, it’d be a dream come true for many around Southern CA but the reality is there are many parents who don’t want to say their kid is on a Flight 3 or Bronze team. At the end of the day pro/rel is what soccer is about on a global scale. Even the penguins in Antarctica probably play pro/rel.


----------



## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

espola said:


> q.e.d.


Not latin, please


----------



## Eagle33 (Oct 12, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> ALL of those other things you mention are great; kids should diversify and enjoy doing different stuff. But if the science suggests that returning to soccer games isn’t an issue, it shouldn’t be drawn out necessarily. We can argue all day over the reasons behind that; it’s been done enough already.
> 
> My posts and position is always transparent so let me be clear on this issue; I am not struggling in any way financially and whether or not kids play games isn’t going to make a difference to me from a financial perspective. I have other means of making money, as do many coaches.
> 
> When I post about kids returning to games or consolidating leagues or less travel or more development over winning or less marketing bullshit and all of that stuff, it’s because I care about two things; one, the kids and two, improving the game here in the US. I sometimes wonder whether some people intentionally look to stifle one or both of those things; that is something I find very difficult to understand and accept.


Out of curiosity, what other means your are talking about? You don't have to answer of course.


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## crush (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> What’s rude about the truth?  Balance is very important concept in life and if a kid “only” plays soccer, I maintain that is a sad pathetic situation to be in.  What do you have against balance and minimizing injury?


I will only say this.  I tried to get DG to do dance and ballet.  Hell no!!!  Then we tried bike riding but she fell and hated it.  Hiking was boring.  I got her into soccer and it connected at 5.  At 7, I tried to get her to tryout softball at it was one big, "no."  Hoops?  "No."  All she ever wants to do is play soccer, go to school, hangout and play with her friends.  She does like surfing but that is for Jah and more for love of mother earth.  No school open so this all sucks and I already prepped her for online next two years and she is ok with that as long as they can play sports.  I told her probably not for two years.  In two years when college opens up in California maybe she can get those cleats back on.  Thanks a lot for nothing.  Take a kids two years away.  Wow!!!  Sellfish little brat she is, only wants to play soccer in college like other men so she can get a discount or get in for free because she worked her ass off, unlike the ladies husband who helped "well to do" folks get in with a fake sport.


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## timbuck (Oct 12, 2020)

Sort of serious/sort of kidding question -  What is going to happen with tryouts?
I know there are teams out there right now that have light rosters that are advertising to try and add players before the "Season" starts.
And most clubs have their tryouts in December/January.  
What is going to happen now?
I'm sure we will see several kids/families say " we are out for now.  Call us back when there's actually a season and we'll let you know if we are interested"  (there was already quite a few of these this summer/fall)


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## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Sort of serious/sort of kidding question -  What is going to happen with tryouts?
> I know there are teams out there right now that have light rosters that are advertising to try and add players before the "Season" starts.
> And most clubs have their tryouts in December/January.
> What is going to happen now?
> I'm sure we will see several kids/families say " we are out for now.  Call us back when there's actually a season and we'll let you know if we are interested"  (there was already quite a few of these this summer/fall)


I'm sure you'll have invitational tryouts.  The problem will be for the buyer, not the seller, as it's really hard to get the sense of the team with kids shuffling in and out and without being able to play scrimmages or hold team gatherings.  The elite teams will have an easier time than the lower teams, since people are always looking to hop up....for those teams people who decide to go on hold until games resume will more likely just leave the sport (they won't be sufficiently conditioned to drop back in, and kids being kids they'll have moved on to other things).

New teams, particularly for the youngers, will be difficult to form even for the 2021 seasons since mass tryouts will be forbidden under the current standards until wide spread vaccination, and that's not happening until August/September 2021 at the earliest.


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## chiefs (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> The risk is the unknown.  What’s the benefit of rushing back to soccer?  Again, why can’t kids ride bike, skateboards, surf etc for physical activity?
> 
> I understand the rush back to soccer from the coaches perspective because we are talking about their livelihood and I am very sympathetic to that.
> However, I have yet to hear 1 valid reason for rushing back to soccer for kids because it’s not in their best interest.  Learning how to skate, rides bikes, and surf etc. is in the best interest of kids until we have more information.


Uhm have you been hiding in a cave? Dre you know why? Parents know the mental health of their own child. Mental well being is a bigger health risk than the China virus, especially long term damage.Also, how about all those collegiate scholarships that may go away in the future as universities cut back budgets. Most parents are in it to win it.


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## EOTL (Oct 12, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Uhm have you been hiding in a cave? Dre you know why? Parents know the mental health of their own child. Mental well being is a bigger health risk than the China virus, especially long term damage.Also, how about all those collegiate scholarships that may go away in the future as universities cut back budgets. Most parents are in it to win it.


Weren’t you the guy who just called teachers p**sies?  Well, ok, if your kids can’t handle a few more months of online school and socially distanced soccer practice, who are the real p**sies?


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 12, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Weren’t you the guy who just called teachers p**sies?  Well, ok, if your kids can’t handle a few more months of online school and socially distanced soccer practice, who are the real p**sies?


You are.


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## MacDre (Oct 12, 2020)

crush said:


> I will only say this.  I tried to get DG to do dance and ballet.  Hell no!!!  Then we tried bike riding but she fell and hated it.  Hiking was boring.  I got her into soccer and it connected at 5.  At 7, I tried to get her to tryout softball at it was one big, "no."  Hoops?  "No."  All she ever wants to do is play soccer, go to school, hangout and play with her friends.  She does like surfing but that is for Jah and more for love of mother earth.  No school open so this all sucks and I already prepped her for online next two years and she is ok with that as long as they can play sports.  I told her probably not for two years.  In two years when college opens up in California maybe she can get those cleats back on.  Thanks a lot for nothing.  Take a kids two years away.  Wow!!!  Sellfish little brat she is, only wants to play soccer in college like other men so she can get a discount or get in for free because she worked her ass off, unlike the ladies husband who helped "well to do" folks get in with a fake sport.


My kid loves soccer too but unfortunately there’s COVID.  So, now my kid is learning to Improvise, Adapt, & Overcome.


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## notintheface (Oct 12, 2020)

northeastlafc said:


> If you as a parent thinks that pro/rel and win at all costs is a bad philosophy to instill on children playing U9 you are in your absolute right to think so. But if that’s your take then leagues like CSL or SCDSL are NOT for you
> In my opinion the SCDSL philosophy sucks where coaches can select (through petition supposedly) which flight they’re going to play in.


If you are teaching "win at all costs" then you are part of the problem. Period.

You are the coach who abuses the substitution rule to kill 30 seconds on every throw-in when they're up by a goal.

You are the coach who screams at their defenders to kick the ball as hard as they can out of bounds just to make another kid chase the ball, just to kill time.

You are the coach whose midfielders don't learn anything about possession because your entire strategy is to have the centerback kick the ball as hard as he or she can up to your attackers.

You are the coach whose kids start getting knee and ankle injuries at age 11 because they've been abused for the past 3 years.

You are the coach teaching 8-year-olds to fall in the box in order to embellish in a meaningless league game.

There is absolutely nothing good that kids can learn by teaching them how to win at any cost.



> That whole status thing with parents actually exists and sometimes it can even trickle down to their kids.


Absolutely it exists. Absolutely. Pro/rel doesn't solve this-- it makes it 100x worse. Parents on a team that came in third place in Silver and which normally would be good enough to compete in Silver Elite may abandon their team in order to go status hunting, just because the team can't move up. This is why it's not a big deal for a flight 2 SCDSL team to move up to flight 1, because it is based on how competitive the coach feels the team can be. If a coach has a team that goes 0-14 in league play and doesn't move down a flight, that's on them.


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## EOTL (Oct 12, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> You are.


Still in mourning, eh? Must be hard to be a sidekick who loses his #1.


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## EOTL (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> My kid loves soccer too but unfortunately there’s COVID.  So, now my kid is learning to Improvise, Adapt, & Overcome.


Check it out all.

While all the rest of you spend your time whining about how you can’t go back to living in a world that no longer exists, others see the opportunity and are blowing by your kids, who you are teaching to feel sorry for themselves.


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## watfly (Oct 12, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Check it out all.
> 
> While all the rest of you spend your time whining about how you can’t go back to living in a world that no longer exists, others see the opportunity and are blowing by your kids, who you are teaching to feel sorry for themselves.


Not me, I've taken this opportunity to teach my kids how to be "woke".  We've eliminated the use of gender pronouns and my wife and I now say we take our coffee plain or without cream.


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## EOTL (Oct 12, 2020)

watfly said:


> Not me, I've taken this opportunity to teach my kids how to be "woke".  We've eliminated the use of gender pronouns and my wife and I now say we take our coffee plain or without cream.


Kudos. Gotta start somewhere.


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## jpeter (Oct 12, 2020)

Youth soccer has been unfairly classified as a higher risk in CA than it should or vs many other places and that needs to be changed.  

The house if cards that is youth club soccer has been exposed for what it is.  For the most part a business disguised as  a nonprofit that uses all kinds and manner of marketing to convince parents to pay the big $$. 

What really needs to happen is reducing the costs and open up youth sports to a broader audience where $$ are not the override factor on who really participates.









						The Privilege of Play: Why the world’s game is a white game in the U.S.
					

Soccer, in its purest form, is the most accessible and racially diverse team sport in the world. But American soccer is not. It’s disproportionately white and upper-middle-class.




					sports.yahoo.com
				




Yeah that articles has some hits and misses but the topic is relative.  Youth Soccer is segregated whether we like it or not,  economically at least and that needs to change.

Time for change, I not sure the election is going to have some miraculous enlightening that's all sudden going to change youth sports guidance  in California.  

Making the best of whatever situations come up I've always tried to teach my kids and in the long run I think that and diversity has kept them motivated, training, happy and moving forward.


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## northeastlafc (Oct 12, 2020)

notintheface said:


> If you are teaching "win at all costs" then you are part of the problem. Period.
> 
> You are the coach who abuses the substitution rule to kill 30 seconds on every throw-in when they're up by a goal.
> 
> ...


You made an assumption about the type of coach I am because I said I favor pro/rel and that winning should matter lol I genuinely had a laugh. Kids all over the world are exposed to those kind of environments at young ages and look at how they progress. Look at Dominic Calvert-Lewin for example. Someone who was cut at the age of 9 is now the joint leading PL goalscorer for the time being. The top players will always gravitate towards the top and pro/rel helps function this. If parents want to leave a club in search of status like you said then they’re in their right to do so. Just because they leave to go to a higher tier level club doesn’t mean they’ll make the team. It might seem unethical for parents to take their child away from a team but the way a lot of clubs are ran are unethical anyways. Not having pro/rel is a big factor in why small neighborhood clubs don’t exist anymore and sell out to be a chapter/affiliate of FC Golden State, Pateadores, Strikers, or any of the 5 surf teams. Some would rather be another clubs Flight 1 or Discovery team rather than using their own identity and work their way up.
My first ever soccer team was a recreation center team and for 2 years we never lost until I was 11 and lost a game in a Cal South league. I was now motivated to play and train harder because I now know there are players better than me. I never wanted to go to a gold team, I was fine being in my silver team and learning and I swear to God we would sometimes beat the Gold teams whenever we’d play them. Listen to the kids they probably want this.


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## watfly (Oct 12, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Kudos. Gotta start somewhere.


I actually started 50 years ago with Brazil Nuts.


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## EOTL (Oct 12, 2020)

jpeter said:


> Youth soccer has be classified as a higher risk in CA vs many other places and that needs to be changed.
> 
> The house if cards that is youth club soccer has been exposed for what it is.  For the most part a business disguised as  a nonprofit that uses all kinds and manner of marketing to convince parents to pay the big $$.
> 
> ...


Yes!  Thank you for finally exposing these fat cat soccer moguls for what they are. They’re raking in money hand over fist and it’s so unfair! We need to stop them in their tracks by socializing youth soccer!


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## Eagle33 (Oct 12, 2020)

jpeter said:


> What really needs to happen is reducing the costs and open up youth sports to a broader audience where $$ are not the override factor on who really participates.


and if you do this, how those Blues and West Coast coaches make any money?


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## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Yes!  Thank you for finally exposing these fat cat soccer moguls for what they are. They’re raking in money hand over fist and it’s so unfair! We need to stop them in their tracks by socializing youth soccer!


This is something I can get behind.  Soccer socialism.  We may have more things in common than we care to admit.  I've even taken a liking to the word "woke".  It's won me more than one argument with my wanna be woke offspring.


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## happy9 (Oct 12, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> and if you do this, how those Blues and West Coast coaches make any money?


Because by now they should be "woke".


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## jpmorris123 (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> The risk is the unknown.  What’s the benefit of rushing back to soccer?  Again, why can’t kids ride bike, skateboards, surf etc for physical activity?
> 
> I understand the rush back to soccer from the coaches perspective because we are talking about their livelihood and I am very sympathetic to that.
> However, I have yet to hear 1 valid reason for rushing back to soccer for kids because it’s not in their best interest.  Learning how to skate, rides bikes, and surf etc. is in the best interest of kids until we have more information.


I'm more liberal than the vast majority of the person's on these crazy boards, but the three activities your listed for kids during a pandemic -- biking, skateboarding and surfing -- spoke volumes about your economic status, privileged position in life and incredibly limited understanding of the millions of masses in SoCal.  Time to drop your avatar and screen name, and stop the charade of being someone from the streets of SoCal who understands what we go through or need on a daily basis. Nobody, I mean nobody, from my hood even thinks about surfing. They hope to get to the white person beaches maybe once or twice a year. Average annual family income hovers around $40k. Kids don't have bikes, ain't no bike lanes, and it ain't even safe to bike on these streets. Welcome to where the blue-collar working masses, struggling their way through life live...  kids surfing, skateboarding, biking? Please stop. Your livin' in your own Truman Show.


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## crush (Oct 12, 2020)

northeastlafc said:


> *I swear to God we would sometimes beat the Gold teams whenever we’d play them*.


That was me as kid sports guy when I was young and free to dream.  School teachers and friends all told me to my face that I would never make it in the NBA or Pro baseball.  I told them for years how wrong they were and I would prove them wrong.  I was on silver level HS School baseball team and we would play and bat against future # a draft picks once in a while and the scouts had their guns out.  I got my big chance against Paul Abbott when he pitched at Sunny Hills in 85'.  93 MPH and a nast change up and curve balls.  I thought I had a chance ((in my dreams the night before)) for the scouts, who were watching Paul, maybe see that spark that i was brought to the team and all that hustle and "Hey nows."  Well, three pitches later I was sent to bench.  My once chance to shine in front of the Cubs and Twins.  I got my chance and struck out swinging.  I did foul tip the second pitch.  First one was right down the middle and I knew I was dead after that pitch at 93.  Never scene anything like it


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## youthsportsugghhh (Oct 12, 2020)

jpmorris123 said:


> I'm more liberal than the vast majority of the person's on these crazy boards, but the three activities your listed for kids during a pandemic -- biking, skateboarding and surfing -- spoke volumes about your economic status, privileged position in life and incredibly limited understanding of the millions of masses in SoCal.  Time to drop your avatar and screen name, and stop the charade of being someone from the streets of SoCal who understands what we go through or need on a daily basis. Nobody, I mean nobody, from my hood even thinks about surfing. They hope to get to the white person beaches maybe once or twice a year. Average annual family income hovers around $40k. Kids don't have bikes, ain't no bike lanes, and it ain't even safe to bike on these streets. Welcome to where the blue-collar working masses, struggling their way through life live...  kids surfing, skateboarding, biking? Please stop. Your livin' in your own Truman Show.


I get not surfing options, but biking and skateboarding cost vs. what club soccer costs? I truly hope that there is low cost soccer opportunities that are less than a used bike or skateboard that kids can take advantage of


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## EOTL (Oct 12, 2020)

jpmorris123 said:


> I'm more liberal than the vast majority of the person's on these crazy boards, but the three activities your listed for kids during a pandemic -- biking, skateboarding and surfing -- spoke volumes about your economic status, privileged position in life and incredibly limited understanding of the millions of masses in SoCal.  Time to drop your avatar and screen name, and stop the charade of being someone from the streets of SoCal who understands what we go through or need on a daily basis. Nobody, I mean nobody, from my hood even thinks about surfing. They hope to get to the white person beaches maybe once or twice a year. Average annual family income hovers around $40k. Kids don't have bikes, ain't no bike lanes, and it ain't even safe to bike on these streets. Welcome to where the blue-collar working masses, struggling their way through life live...  kids surfing, skateboarding, biking? Please stop. Your livin' in your own Truman Show.


This is a joke right?


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## MacDre (Oct 12, 2020)

jpmorris123 said:


> I'm more liberal than the vast majority of the person's on these crazy boards, but the three activities your listed for kids during a pandemic -- biking, skateboarding and surfing -- spoke volumes about your economic status, privileged position in life and incredibly limited understanding of the millions of masses in SoCal.  Time to drop your avatar and screen name, and stop the charade of being someone from the streets of SoCal who understands what we go through or need on a daily basis. Nobody, I mean nobody, from my hood even thinks about surfing. They hope to get to the white person beaches maybe once or twice a year. Average annual family income hovers around $40k. Kids don't have bikes, ain't no bike lanes, and it ain't even safe to bike on these streets. Welcome to where the blue-collar working masses, struggling their way through life live...  kids surfing, skateboarding, biking? Please stop. Your livin' in your own Truman Show.


I’m from the MOST DANGEROUS hood in California...learn about North Richmond homie.


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## crush (Oct 12, 2020)

jpmorris123 said:


> I'm more liberal than the vast majority of the person's on these crazy boards, but the three activities your listed for kids during a pandemic -- biking, skateboarding and surfing -- spoke volumes about your economic status, privileged position in life and incredibly limited understanding of the millions of masses in SoCal.  Time to drop your avatar and screen name, and stop the charade of being someone from the streets of SoCal who understands what we go through or need on a daily basis. *Nobody, I mean nobody, from my hood even thinks about surfing. *They hope to get to the* white person beaches* maybe once or twice a year. Average annual family income hovers around $40k. Kids don't have bikes, ain't no bike lanes, and it ain't even safe to bike on these streets. Welcome to where the blue-collar working masses, struggling their way through life live...  kids surfing, skateboarding, biking? Please stop. Your livin' in your own Truman Show.


Hey bro, I did offer Macdre free lessons this summer but Covid hit.  I swear as God is my witness that I will offer anyone free Surf Lessons next summer.  I swear on my life.  BTW, the last beach house I was at was owned by a super smart cat from India.  Worked for Microsoft.  He has his own Cove with 30 other families and I can tell you that that private beach is not all white.  Maybe half, but the rest is mixed up.


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## MacDre (Oct 12, 2020)

youthsportsugghhh said:


> I get not surfing options, but biking and skateboarding cost vs. what club soccer costs? I truly hope that there is low cost soccer opportunities that are less than a used bike or skateboard that kids can take advantage of


I assure you kids in the hood have access to bikes and skateboards.


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## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2020)

youthsportsugghhh said:


> I get not surfing options, but biking and skateboarding cost vs. what club soccer costs? I truly hope that there is low cost soccer opportunities that are less than a used bike or skateboard that kids can take advantage of


The bikes are actually kind of expensive for a working family....remember they are constantly outgrowing them.  If you live in an apartment, there's no place to store them.  There's also no place for the kids to ride them safely.  And working class parents make an outsized portion of the essential workers....so it's not like they have time to supervise them.  In some neighborhoods you might even get shot, or at a minimum have your bike stolen.

Skateboards are obviously cheaper but at least in La County the skateparks are still closed so that leaves skateboarding out in the street, which isn't necessarily safe but kids are doing it.


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## notintheface (Oct 12, 2020)

northeastlafc said:


> Look at Dominic Calvert-Lewin for example.


How about we compare kids growing up in LA to kids growing up in Sheffield, where DCL spent his youth career. What bracket of play did Sheffield's U10 team come in, and what was their record the previous year? I'll save you the time-- those youngers teams don't do pro/rel.



> Not having pro/rel is a big factor in why small neighborhood clubs don’t exist anymore and sell out to be a chapter/affiliate of FC Golden State, Pateadores, Strikers, or any of the 5 surf teams. Some would rather be another clubs Flight 1 or Discovery team rather than using their own identity and work their way up.


The real factor is money, not pro/rel, but we'll save that for a completely different thread.



> I never wanted to go to a gold team, I was fine being in my silver team and learning and I swear to God we would sometimes beat the Gold teams whenever we’d play them. Listen to the kids they probably want this.


Kids want to play competitive matches and they want to get better. If your team was sometimes beating Gold level teams, guess what, you should have been at least Silver Elite and I can only imagine your coach wanting to play flight 2 / flight 1 in order to make your team better. That's the point of all of this. A team of U8 kids who has an absolute superstar goat striker who can dribble at speed and pass the ball into the corner of the net, but is absolutely trash on defense, will probably move up to silver, then silver elite, and maybe even gold when they're 11. They will then get absolutely annihilated when they switch to 11v11 when they're 12. Then the parents are like "wtf" and the team blows up. A good coach will know that they're not really a gold team and would keep them in flight 2 until their defense and midfield can maintain possession. See how pro/rel doesn't allow this?


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## youthsportsugghhh (Oct 12, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The bikes are actually kind of expensive for a working family....remember they are constantly outgrowing them.  If you live in an apartment, there's no place to store them.  There's also no place for the kids to ride them safely.  And working class parents make an outsized portion of the essential workers....so it's not like they have time to supervise them.  In some neighborhoods you might even get shot, or at a minimum have your bike stolen.
> 
> Skateboards are obviously cheaper but at least in La County the skateparks are still closed so that leaves skateboarding out in the street, which isn't necessarily safe but kids are doing it.


I get that too -- I had a girls bike that was a little big, but easier to ride without the bar and kept it in the apartment ( did take some criticism from others in the neighborhood until I let them ride it). Sidewalks and paths around the parks or sidewalks and driveways/parking lots near the apartment served as my skate park.  My comment was based on the cost of club soccer v a bike or skateboard for those in the inner cities and what can be done instead of playing soccer.


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## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Kids want to play competitive matches and they want to get better. If your team was sometimes beating Gold level teams, guess what, you should have been at least Silver Elite and I can only imagine your coach wanting to play flight 2 / flight 1 in order to make your team better. That's the point of all of this. A team of U8 kids who has an absolute superstar goat striker who can dribble at speed and pass the ball into the corner of the net, but is absolutely trash on defense, will probably move up to silver, then silver elite, and maybe even gold when they're 11. They will then get absolutely annihilated when they switch to 11v11 when they're 12. Then the parents are like "wtf" and the team blows up. A good coach will know that they're not really a gold team and would keep them in flight 2 until their defense and midfield can maintain possession. See how pro/rel doesn't allow this?


The other teams' parents though will be screaming at the league to move them up to stop the goat from constantly blowing them out 10-0.  The issue with the youngers, as you point out, is that one even semi-goat can ruin things.

The experience is the same with GKers BTW.  The goat basically keeps the team on offense so the strikes the GK is getting aren't really as challenging.  The team has been promoted anyways so until the higher levels they aren't getting a ton of competing shots on goal.   The GK and his/her parents think they are doing a great job because the coaches and parents constantly congratulate them on the "shut out".  The GK may not be developing their foot skills either. 

Then age 12 hits and they are in the bigger goal.  Suddenly the kids too have developed speed on their shots and aren't hitting it directly at the goalkeeper anymore.  On the field, players have learned to head and chest the ball and those punts are no longer a footrace and the GK is turning over the ball 50% on the time on a punt.  Other kids may have been working with private trainers and attending the camps we all attend and know the big guys around town and are more competitive.  And this is also the age that's make or break for the bigger goalkeepers because to cover that larger goal they need to now begin to extension dive (and assuming the kid has been working on GK for 2-3 years, it's also the age a reputable GK coach will introduce the extension dive in ernest, knowing that the kid probably won't get hurt now doing it)....if the kid in puberty doesn't translate some of the size for muscle he/she will be behind in both ability to jump and quickness of reaction saves (which begin to be more important around age 10-11 as kids learn to penetrated into zone 1 in the box through passing opportunities, as opposed to just shooting from the top of the PA or outrunning the defense).


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## Grace T. (Oct 12, 2020)

youthsportsugghhh said:


> I get that too -- I had a girls bike that was a little big, but easier to ride without the bar and kept it in the apartment ( did take some criticism from others in the neighborhood until I let them ride it). Sidewalks and paths around the parks or sidewalks and driveways/parking lots near the apartment served as my skate park.  My comment was based on the cost of club soccer v a bike or skateboard for those in the inner cities and what can be done instead of playing soccer.


For working class Latino families, the cost of playing rec soccer (either at AYSO or in Latino League) the cost is minimal.  Latino League usually gets a local business to supplement the uniform costs.  My cous has great difficulty keeping her kids in bikes...she never has issues with soccer but then she's not having her kids play club.  Skateboards are a different story, but she worries about as they get older the type of friends it will cause them to hang out with.  We all here are complaining about our kids being unable to play club soccer but the ones that are really hurting are the ones that play AYSO and the ones that play Latino League


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## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 12, 2020)

notintheface said:


> This is why it's not a big deal for a flight 2 SCDSL team to move up to flight 1, because it is based on how competitive the coach feels the team can be. If a coach has a team that goes 0-14 in league play and doesn't move down a flight, that's on them.


  Coaches/Teams are always looking to move their team higher and higher.  We now have Flight 3, Flight 2. Flight 1. Flight 1 champions, Flight 1 Discovery??????? That's insane and it's just a money grab.   

 Regarding under performing teams, they need to have at least a .500 win rate if they want to move up to the next tier.  Makes no sense to go 2-12 as flight 3 to then move to flight 2 and go 0-14.  Stay in Flight 3 one more year to get experience.  Kids dont care about flights as much as parents do.  Kids do care if they keep losing every year because the coach decided that they can compete at a higher level. 

My kids had the worse experience because a coach decided to put our team in a higher bracket where we clearly didnt belong. We went 2-12 during the regular season.  During State cup, the coach again decided to challenge our team and play in a higher bracket (Governors).  We got crushed and lost every game by more than 4 goals.  Let's just say the team folded and my boys didnt want to play soccer again.


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## notintheface (Oct 12, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Then age 12 hits and they are in the bigger goal.  Suddenly the kids too have developed speed on their shots and aren't hitting it directly at the goalkeeper anymore.


This times a million. SCDSL allows that U8 team to jump immediately to flight 1 at U9 where they will be challenged immediately by other teams with "that one hyper athletic kid". Let those teams trade breakaways all day long. Let the teams who don't have the hyper athletic kid play at flight 2 or flight 3 and be competitive against each other. Don't enforce some kind of strict yearly up/down movement just for some sense of parental accomplishment, that's insanity.


----------



## jpmorris123 (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I’m from the MOST DANGEROUS hood in California...learn about North Richmond homie.


ok bro. we won't roll through your 3,500 person pocket by the Bay


----------



## notintheface (Oct 12, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Coaches/Teams are always looking to move their team higher and higher.  We now have Flight 3, Flight 2. Flight 1. Flight 1 champions, Flight 1 Discovery??????? That's insane and it's just a money grab.


I absolutely 100% agree with this. Name the flights after colors, or something that doesn't imply tiering. Blue / Red / Orange / whatever. Yes there will still be status chasing, you can never get rid of that as long as there are helicopter parents, but remove incentives where you can. No parent will ever be "well my kid plays in Flight Blue" during a dinner party.



> Regarding under performing teams, they need to have at least a .500 win rate if they want to move up to the next tier.  Makes no sense to go 2-12 as flight 3 to then move to flight 2 and go 0-14.  Stay in Flight 3 one more year to get experience.  Kids dont care about flights as much as parents do.  Kids do care if they keep losing every year because the coach decided that they can compete at a higher level.


I absolutely 100% agree with this. If you are not doing well in flight 3, you definitely won't do well in flight 2. There should be no pressure from clubs on the coaches to push their kids up and if there is, you should look long and hard at your club, because there are clubs out there that do not do this. I sympathize about the coach not recognizing the true level of the kids-- it's never fun to be at the bottom of the table and it is very hard to get out of that hole. IMHO that's where the club pass can help. Bring in a superstar kid from a younger age group to play up and help out the flight 3 team-- everyone wins.


----------



## crush (Oct 12, 2020)

notintheface said:


> I absolutely 100% agree with this. Name the flights after colors, or something that doesn't imply tiering. Blue / Red / Orange / whatever. Yes there will still be status chasing, you can never get rid of that as long as there are helicopter parents, but remove incentives where you can. No parent will ever be "well my kid plays in Flight Blue" during a dinner party.
> 
> 
> 
> I absolutely 100% agree with this. If you are not doing well in flight 3, you definitely won't do well in flight 2. There should be no pressure from clubs on the coaches to push their kids up and if there is, you should look long and hard at your club, because there are clubs out there that do not do this. I sympathize about the coach not recognizing the true level of the kids-- it's never fun to be at the bottom of the table and it is very hard to get out of that hole. IMHO that's where the club pass can help. B*ring in a superstar kid from a younger age group to play up and help out the flight 3 team-- everyone wins.*


"Pay me what you want to hear and I will gladly tell you what you want to hear."  Not in my Face, who said this?  Btw, my dd played up two levels one time and she was hated by the parents of the older girls in flight three.  They were pissed and so were the player.  No way...


----------



## Footy30 (Oct 12, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Right now yes.
> 
> I would bet that the league and clubs try to do the following.
> 
> ...


Not ideal is correct.... like I said all the NV and AZ people are probably rolling their eyes at me but damn that's a lot of flights, hotels, driving, etc. but if that's the way the league goes, then that's the way it goes and we will oblige .... AZ and NV will get a break in travel for a change, so that'll be nice for those teams.


----------



## crush (Oct 12, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> Not ideal is correct.... like I said all the NV and AZ people are probably rolling their eyes at me but damn that's a lot of flights, hotels, driving, etc. but if that's the way the league goes, then that's the way it goes and we will oblige .... AZ and NV will get a break in travel for a change, so that'll be nice for those teams.


Footy, awesome attitude.  I feel the same way


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Oct 12, 2020)

espola said:


> The immediate risk is pretty well pegged by now.  Nobody has enough experience yet to know the long-term risk.


What are the short, medium, and long-term emotional risks for keeping the kids out of school and out of organized sports? We know they are more prone to suicide the longer they don't lead normal lives. It's already happening despite all the opportunities to skateboard, surf, bike ride, etc. So, what's the greater risk, the one we know exists, or the one we fear might exist in the long term?

The kids see all the other people out at the park ignoring the rules they are supposed to follow. From my perspective, these "restrictions" are a charade put on by politicians that want to be seen as SJWs. I say charade because they enforce none of their distancing rules in the parks in NorCal as far as I can see. If they actually enforced the rules, I'd consider them legitimate SJWs. One thing for sure, they are definitely teaching our kids to be cynical about governmental actions and that if you can get away with it, you don't have to follow the rules.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 12, 2020)

jpmorris123 said:


> ok bro. we won't roll through your 3,500 person pocket by the Bay


That’s what most gangsters in Oakland and Compton would advise.  But you can watch Coach Carter to learn about the nicer neighborhoods in Richmond, CA.


----------



## Speed (Oct 12, 2020)

I think this is hilarious


----------



## EOTL (Oct 12, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> What are the short, medium, and long-term emotional risks for keeping the kids out of school and out of organized sports? We know they are more prone to suicide the longer they don't lead normal lives. It's already happening despite all the opportunities to skateboard, surf, bike ride, etc. So, what's the greater risk, the one we know exists, or the one we fear might exist in the long term?
> 
> The kids see all the other people out at the park ignoring the rules they are supposed to follow. From my perspective, these "restrictions" are a charade put on by politicians that want to be seen as SJWs. I say charade because they enforce none of their distancing rules in the parks in NorCal as far as I can see. If they actually enforced the rules, I'd consider them legitimate SJWs. One thing for sure, they are definitely teaching our kids to be cynical about governmental actions and that if you can get away with it, you don't have to follow the rules.


You ask your question as if the emotional health of your children is outside your control. The emotional risks for your children are no greater than in the absence of the pandemic if you get your s**t together and stop blaming other people for things that are your responsibility as a parent. Step up to the plate for god’s sake.

And you are blaming others for making your kids cynical about government when it is very clear from your post that you’re the one who is doing that.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 12, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> What are the short, medium, and long-term emotional risks for keeping the kids out of school and out of organized sports? We know they are more prone to suicide the longer they don't lead normal lives. It's already happening despite all the opportunities to skateboard, surf, bike ride, etc. So, what's the greater risk, the one we know exists, or the one we fear might exist in the long term?
> 
> The kids see all the other people out at the park ignoring the rules they are supposed to follow. From my perspective, these "restrictions" are a charade put on by politicians that want to be seen as SJWs. I say charade because they enforce none of their distancing rules in the parks in NorCal as far as I can see. If they actually enforced the rules, I'd consider them legitimate SJWs. One thing for sure, they are definitely teaching our kids to be cynical about governmental actions and that if you can get away with it, you don't have to follow the rules.


I completely understand in your situation.  But, I think you are the exception to the rule.  Is it really that serious for the average kid to play soccer?


----------



## N00B (Oct 12, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Yes!  Thank you for finally exposing these fat cat soccer moguls for what they are. They’re raking in money hand over fist and it’s so unfair! We need to stop them in their tracks by socializing youth soccer!


Doesn't this already exist... hint, it comes with a socially equitable participation trophy.


----------



## lafalafa (Oct 12, 2020)

N00B said:


> Doesn't this already exist... hint, it comes with a socially equitable participation trophy.


Club soccer turned into everyone can play if they pay many years ago.  

Tryouts are for your wallet, several social wanted posts lately looking for a couple more "players" for a strong flight xyz team.

Trouble is all the taxpayers are subsidizing youth sports but only limited numbers are getting "service". 

Avoiding taxes via non profit, taking hundreds of thousands in ppp loans,  using public facilities (parks, schools, colleges), and still charge thousands to parents to participate is a pretty good racket.  Talk about your double and triple dipping. 

Coaches deserve to get paid just like teachers but the reexamining of how your tax dollars are being used and exploited by some organizations could use a second look and I've heard that's one of things going on in CA, when things open up more there well could be some changes in store.


----------



## N00B (Oct 12, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Club soccer turned into everyone can play if they pay many years ago.
> 
> Tryouts are for your wallet, several social wanted posts lately looking for a couple more "players" for a strong flight xyz team.
> 
> ...


Just an observation... but if coaches deserve to be paid like teachers, than you could make a very similar statement in inverse.

Replace ‘club soccer’ with ‘Education’ and ‘youth sports’ with ‘schools’.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I completely understand in your situation.  But, I think you are the exception to the rule.  Is it really that serious for the average kid to play soccer?


It's more than soccer.  We poured sand on the skate parks, put plastic bags over the basketball hoops, padlocked the baseball and softball fields, closed the swimming pools, roped off the playgrounds, and generally shut down every outdoor space where kids might have fun.

Meanwhile, casinos are open, restaurants are open, bars are opening, theaters are open, churches are open, and airports are open.  All of these indoor activities are higher risk than the outdoor activities we shut down for the kids.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 12, 2020)

EOTL said:


> You ask your question as if the emotional health of your children is outside your control. The emotional risks for your children are no greater than in the absence of the pandemic if you get your s**t together and stop blaming other people for things that are your responsibility as a parent. Step up to the plate for god’s sake.
> 
> And you are blaming others for making your kids cynical about government when it is very clear from your post that you’re the one who is doing that.


when the pandemic started, we quarantined for many months and kept the kids busy with hikes.  Once hikes got boring for them, we moved to running, once they got bored of running, we moved to cycling.   Now we allow them to see their friends and we’ve relaxed our stance on family visit rules.  


It is not about allowing kids to play soccer but more to return to some level of normality.    Even this week the World Health Organization is now saying that quarantine and isolation is no longer the answer.  
You do know that there’s an increase in calls this year of 60% into suicide hotlines.  

So step up and do your research!

Covid is not going away this year or next year. We can not isolate our kids for another 12 months.


----------



## Glitterhater (Oct 12, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> when the pandemic started, we quarantined for many months and kept the kids busy with hikes.  Once hikes got boring for them, we moved to running, once they got bored of running, we moved to cycling.   Now we allow them to see their friends and we’ve relaxed our stance on family visit rules.
> 
> 
> It is not about allowing kids to play soccer but more to return to some level of normality.    Even this week the World Health Organization is now saying that quarantine and isolation is no longer the answer.
> ...


I am probably more liberal than most on here, (or as some of you lovingly call is- "libtards",) but even I can see that it's 100% about money at this point. How in the hell can you do all the things listed above, (sand in skate parks, bags over hoops, etc,) but tell kids no sports. Families- "no gatherings" (no matter how intimate with people outside your home), yet I can belly up to a bar with every Tom Dick and Harry, Play the slots with Magda, or go to one of the many mega churches with people packed into pews? How in the ever loving hell does that make sense? Unless...... certain "people" have things to gain from those places?

We are still cautious- we wear masks, limit indoor activities, keep our immuno compromised youngest more underwraps than his peers, etc. But even some of us "libtards" think this has all gotten nuts.


----------



## chiefs (Oct 12, 2020)

dad4 said:


> It's more than soccer.  We poured sand on the skate parks, put plastic bags over the basketball hoops, padlocked the baseball and softball fields, closed the swimming pools, roped off the playgrounds, and generally shut down every outdoor space where kids might have fun.
> 
> Meanwhile, casinos are open, restaurants are open, bars are opening, theaters are open, churches are open, and airports are open.  All of these indoor activities are higher risk than the outdoor activities we shut down for the kids.


Thanks for reminding all how deep this insanity went with it all directed at children.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> The risk is the unknown.  What’s the benefit of rushing back to soccer?  Again, why can’t kids ride bike, skateboards, surf etc for physical activity?
> 
> I understand the rush back to soccer from the coaches perspective because we are talking about their livelihood and I am very sympathetic to that.
> However, I have yet to hear 1 valid reason for rushing back to soccer for kids because it’s not in their best interest.  Learning how to skate, rides bikes, and surf etc. is in the best interest of kids until we have more information.


If you don’t mind me asking, how old are your kids?


----------



## Keepermom2 (Oct 12, 2020)

MacDre said:


> The risk is the unknown.  What’s the benefit of rushing back to soccer?  Again, why can’t kids ride bike, skateboards, surf etc for physical activity?
> 
> I understand the rush back to soccer from the coaches perspective because we are talking about their livelihood and I am very sympathetic to that.
> However, I have yet to hear 1 valid reason for rushing back to soccer for kids because it’s not in their best interest.  Learning how to skate, rides bikes, and surf etc. is in the best interest of kids until we have more information.


The risk isn't unknown.  We have scientific evidence that shows us the risk of outdoor activities.  We now have historical data from countless States who have started to play soccer games and/or never stopped playing soccer games.  We also have improved treatments that you don't hear about on the news but our local medical facility has talked about the success they have had with several treatments.  And they proudly documented treating 750 patients with no deaths.

I asked my 14 year old daughter the question of why it was so important to play soccer as opposed to learning a "no risk" activity that she could do on her own and her answer was..."Why would I want to do another activity other than the one I have been doing my whole life?"  She added...being back to playing has been good for her mentally.  She has this great nature of taking everything in stride so that answer was a bit surprising to me.

My daughter is passionate about soccer like nothing else.  She has put a great deal of work into becoming increasingly better at her craft for years.  The first private training I took her to 4 months from the last game she played she came out of it crying and saying...."I am never going to be where I was at".   She has put in so much work and sacrifice because she loves it like nothing else.  Sometimes after a great training or an active game it takes her a bit to come down because she is so amped on adreniline.  There is nothing she does that replaces that for her.  I believe many of our kids are the same.

My daughter did take surf lessons this summer (end of August) as we do every summer on our beach camp trip but this year was different.  Our normal surf lesson guy told us he was banned from his standard location because of COVID restrictions so we had to go to another location where the waves weren't conducive for learning how to surf and it ended up scaring the hell out of my daughter because she got banged by the board and struggled getting up from a big wave.  So I guess she is left with skateboarding which she also already does once a year when we go camping and running which my daughter finds no joy in.

So why are we in a rush to go back given I am high risk?  Because the risk of catching and spreading the virus playing soccer is so very low if at all with appropriate precautions, my daughter deserves to have some joy in her life, and I so very much love watching her in goal.  It brings me great joy!


----------



## espola (Oct 12, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> We also have improved treatments that you don't hear about on the news but our local medical facility has talked about the success they have had with several treatments.  And they proudly documented treating 750 patients with no deaths.


Tell us more about this,


----------



## Keepermom2 (Oct 12, 2020)

espola said:


> Tell us more about this,


This was from August.  



			COVID TESTING UPDATE- Latest Numbers and Observations


----------



## MSK357 (Oct 12, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> I am probably more liberal than most on here, (or as some of you lovingly call is- "libtards",) but even I can see that it's 100% about money at this point. How in the hell can you do all the things listed above, (sand in skate parks, bags over hoops, etc,) but tell kids no sports. Families- "no gatherings" (no matter how intimate with people outside your home), yet I can belly up to a bar with every Tom Dick and Harry, Play the slots with Magda, or go to one of the many mega churches with people packed into pews? How in the ever loving hell does that make sense? Unless...... certain "people" have things to gain from those places?
> 
> We are still cautious- we wear masks, limit indoor activities, keep our immuno compromised youngest more underwraps than his peers, etc. But even some of us "libtards" think this has all gotten nuts.


Then I hope you vote accordingly.


----------



## TangoCity (Oct 13, 2020)

espola said:


> Tell us more about this,


#ZelenkoProtocol


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I completely understand in your situation.  But, I think you are the exception to the rule.  Is it really that serious for the average kid to play soccer?


I didn't say "soccer", I stated "school and organized sports". Most average kids fall into at least one of those categories. My primary point is that it appears way too common for individuals to only consider the risk, or even potential future risks of COVID without considering the very real and immediate risks of turning our children's lives upside down (see the post I responded to). Any little bit of "normal" helps. I feel blessed for our situation. My daughter had homeschooled for the prior two years. This summer she considered going to her local HS until they went virtual. Not a big deal for her. I can't say the same for all her peers.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 13, 2020)

What’s a Brazil nut?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 13, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> For working class Latino families, the cost of playing rec soccer (either at AYSO or in Latino League) the cost is minimal.  Latino League usually gets a local business to supplement the uniform costs.  My cous has great difficulty keeping her kids in bikes...she never has issues with soccer but then she's not having her kids play club.  Skateboards are a different story, but she worries about as they get older the type of friends it will cause them to hang out with.  We all here are complaining about our kids being unable to play club soccer but the ones that are really hurting are the ones that play AYSO and the ones that play Latino League


Who cares.
I am sure they would be better off in their country of origin.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> The risk isn't unknown.  We have scientific evidence that shows us the risk of outdoor activities.  We now have historical data from countless States who have started to play soccer games and/or never stopped playing soccer games.  We also have improved treatments that you don't hear about on the news but our local medical facility has talked about the success they have had with several treatments.  And they proudly documented treating 750 patients with no deaths.
> 
> I asked my 14 year old daughter the question of why it was so important to play soccer as opposed to learning a "no risk" activity that she could do on her own and her answer was..."Why would I want to do another activity other than the one I have been doing my whole life?"  She added...being back to playing has been good for her mentally.  She has this great nature of taking everything in stride so that answer was a bit surprising to me.
> 
> ...


I personally believe every child allowed to be born should be able to do as they please, within reason of course.  They have to find their passion but they also have to be born first and that's getting harder and harder.  What I mean is this.  If you want to surf, surf.   you want to play hoops, hoop it up.  If you want stop every goal from going into the goal, play goal keeper.  If you you want to play all sports, then by all means play all sports.  The fact is, we should be free to do whatever we want.  Its called freedom for a reason but so many dont want kids to play sports in California.  Kids are getting the short end of the stick and the asshole adults are using them as pawns.  BS and I would not mess with kids or life for that matter.  I have a 200 lb weight to strap around anyone's neck and I can toss your ass in the ocean if you like.  Dont fu*k with the kids life assholes. Biggest selfish assholes I have ever met in my life.  Happy Tuesday to all and let's hope the value of everyone's life is as important as the next Elitist. I heard the word "illegitimate" a lot yesterday.  The definition of *illegitimate* is a *person* who was born to unmarried parents, or something that is incorrectly decided, or is not in accordance with the rules or laws. A baby who is born to a single mother who is not married is an example of a baby that would be described as *illegitimate*.
Basically, the little bastard shouldn't be allowed to be born.  My adopted mother, who adopted and fostered 8 kids in the 60s was herself adopted after spending time in Ohio's foster care from 1919-1921.  Her biological mother was a prostitute and my mom was given to the state as a little bastard.  It's amazing to me how a little prostitute bastard baby could be an angel who saved so many kids lives.  I love you mom and thank you for adopting me and thank to my biological mama for denying yourself 9 months so I can be born.  Thank you!!!!


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Who cares.
> I am sure they would be better off in their country of origin.


Racist.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

Feinstein said she went to Stanford in the 50s and saw all the girls taking trips to Mexico to have abortion.  This is deep for me so I hope you can follow along.  My biological mother in 1966 was on her way to Mexico as well to abort me.  She had much, much pain and saw me as a problem and not a precious life.  No judgement from me, just sharing the truth.  My adopted mother got a call from a minister in LA that had my biological mother at an impasse in her life.  My mom moved her into our house and gave her place to stay and help me be born.  This is deep stuff folks.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> What’s the survival rate of their parents? Coaches? Teachers? Those living in rest homes, or in hospitals, grocery stores, office buildings etc working next to all these kids’ parents? If 1 million people under 30 get it, how many people who they transmit it to will die?
> 
> The risk is known apparently, so please tell us.


Let me help you....


----------



## Desert Hound (Oct 13, 2020)

CDC Study Finds Overwhelming Majority Of People Getting Coronavirus Wore Masks
					

Over 70 percent of the case-patients who were contaminated with the virus fell ill despite "always" wearing a mask.




					thefederalist.com
				




_A study conducted in the United States in July found that when they compared 154 “case-patients,” who tested positive for COVID-19, to a control group of 160 participants from the same health care facility who were symptomatic but tested negative, over 70 percent of the case-patients were contaminated with the virus and fell ill despite “always” wearing a mask._

“In the 14 days before illness onset, 71% of case-patients and 74% of control participants reported always using cloth face coverings or other mask types when in public,” the report stated.

In addition, over 14 percent of the case-patients said they “often” wore a face covering and were still infected with the virus."


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

@EOTL and @messy and @espola  I challenge each one of you to a boxing match.  Big gloves so no one really gets fu^ked up.  I have to fight now guys.  I can;t take it anymore.  I will set this up at a park out in Ladera Ranch.  Rich one of you wants to go first?  I'm dead serious and please grant me this one wish.  If you kic my ass, I will never post here ever.  If I kick your ass, you can still post all you want.  What a day listen to DF and all the reasons why the Elitist girls in the 50s going to Sandford surely can;t get prego.  Oh no, that would be no bueno so kill baby.  WTF happen to us?  I can;t believe what I'm hearing.


----------



## Desert Hound (Oct 13, 2020)

Gallup Poll: Republicans Dramatically Less Terrified Of Coronavirus Than Democrats
					

A new analysis of Gallup data out last week shows a stark partisan contrast in how the public perceives the coronavirus threat to their personal health.




					thefederalist.com
				




According to data from the Gallup Panel conducting research on public opinion throughout the coronavirus pandemic, Republicans were far less terrified of the novel Chinese virus than Democrats.

Seventy percent of Democratic men, and 80 percent of Democratic women were “worried about getting the coronavirus” while only 20 percent of Republican men and 29 percent of Republican women reported the same. Those concerns, the data show, has translated into impacting their behavior. Seventy percent of Democratic men and 73 percent of Democratic women reported avoiding public placed over fear of the virus, and only 31 percent of Republican men and 38 percent of Republican women repeated the behavior.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 13, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> If you don’t mind me asking, how old are your kids?


12 years old. (December) 2007.


----------



## Desert Hound (Oct 13, 2020)

WHO backflips on virus stance by condemning lockdowns
					

The World Health Organisation has backflipped on its original COVID-19 stance after calling for world leaders to stop locking down their countries and economies.




					www.news.com.au
				





“We in the World Health Organisation do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus,” Dr Nabarro told _The Spectator_.

“The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganise, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.”

“Look what’s happened to smallholder farmers all over the world. … Look what’s happening to poverty levels. It seems that we may well have a doubling of world poverty by next year. We may well have at least a doubling of child malnutrition.”


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> WHO backflips on virus stance by condemning lockdowns
> 
> 
> The World Health Organisation has backflipped on its original COVID-19 stance after calling for world leaders to stop locking down their countries and economies.
> ...


I've never seen so many goal post and change with the wind cheaters in my life.  This is not about what you all thought it was about.  Oh no, we all know what's up now.  The gig is up.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 13, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> The risk isn't unknown.  We have scientific evidence that shows us the risk of outdoor activities.  We now have historical data from countless States who have started to play soccer games and/or never stopped playing soccer games.  We also have improved treatments that you don't hear about on the news but our local medical facility has talked about the success they have had with several treatments.  And they proudly documented treating 750 patients with no deaths.
> 
> I asked my 14 year old daughter the question of why it was so important to play soccer as opposed to learning a "no risk" activity that she could do on her own and her answer was..."Why would I want to do another activity other than the one I have been doing my whole life?"  She added...being back to playing has been good for her mentally.  She has this great nature of taking everything in stride so that answer was a bit surprising to me.
> 
> ...


I have some serious doubts as to the veracity of your statement regarding unknown risk.

COVID sucks for all but complaining doesn’t help.  I guess I’m a make lemonade out of lemons type of guy.  Isn’t mental fortitude an important quality for a keeper?  What about the adage “if it doesn’t kill you, it will make you stronger?”


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 13, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> “We in the World Health Organisation do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus,” Dr Nabarro told _The Spectator_.
> 
> “The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganise, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.”
> 
> “Look what’s happened to smallholder farmers all over the world. … Look what’s happening to poverty levels. It seems that we may well have a doubling of world poverty by next year. We may well have at least a doubling of child malnutrition.”



The tide does finally seem to be turning and team reality is on the upswing, particularly when it comes to restrictions on children.  It will be interesting to see what the luminaries on team panic do in response to this growing push back....do they admit they were wrong or do they push back even harder particularly in light of the shifting public opinion?  Sadly I think we know what the answer is in California.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 13, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> The risk isn't unknown.  We have scientific evidence that shows us the risk of outdoor activities.  We now have historical data from countless States who have started to play soccer games and/or never stopped playing soccer games.  We also have improved treatments that you don't hear about on the news but our local medical facility has talked about the success they have had with several treatments.  And they proudly documented treating 750 patients with no deaths.
> 
> I asked my 14 year old daughter the question of why it was so important to play soccer as opposed to learning a "no risk" activity that she could do on her own and her answer was..."Why would I want to do another activity other than the one I have been doing my whole life?"  She added...being back to playing has been good for her mentally.  She has this great nature of taking everything in stride so that answer was a bit surprising to me.
> 
> ...


So where are all of these closed parks.  There are 2 state parks by my house and both are open (Benicia & East Bay Regional) I’ve also been to several city parks too (Benicia, Concord, Walnut Creek, Hercules, Vallejo, and Berkeley).  Santa Cruz, Mt. Lassen, and Tahoe (CA side) all open too.
But, if city parks are closed, what does that have to do with Sacramento?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I have some serious doubts as to the veracity of your statement regarding unknown risk.
> 
> COVID sucks for all but complaining doesn’t help.  I guess I’m a make lemonade out of lemons type of guy.  Isn’t mental fortitude an important quality for a keeper?  What about the adage “if it doesn’t kill you, it will make you stronger?”


Mac,

With all do respect, your only child is 12.  Please don’t come around here preaching like you know or can relate to the trials and tribulations of families who have more than one child that are older and have completely different issues than a pre-teen kid.


----------



## Mad Hatter (Oct 13, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The tide does finally seem to be turning and team reality is on the upswing, particularly when it comes to restrictions on children. It will be interesting to see what the luminaries on team panic do in response to this growing push back....do they admit they were wrong or do they push back even harder particularly in light of the shifting public opinion? Sadly I think we know what the answer is in California.


It would seem that as the scientists really look at what they are finding, many are now realizing much of what the world has done has not been correct.


----------



## Lavey29 (Oct 13, 2020)

Just got back from Scottsdale where the kid played in a college ID clinic. First time she had real contact scrimmage in 8 months. She was so excited to play again and did remarkably well. There appears to be no covid in Arizona.  Everything is open. Bars and restaurants packed. I walked into a packed restaurant with my mask on to get a to go order and everyone looked at me like I had the plague. What a difference from California where they are ruining people's business and lives with the closures. I have no doubt there are political motives behind these restrictions and if dems win then everything opens up again to boom the economy.  F California and all the radical left socialists that have ruined this state and taken away childhood memories from our kids.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 13, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> CDC Study Finds Overwhelming Majority Of People Getting Coronavirus Wore Masks
> 
> 
> Over 70 percent of the case-patients who were contaminated with the virus fell ill despite "always" wearing a mask.
> ...


This is why self reporting is a really bad way to gather data.  Yes, if you ask us, we all wear masks.

That's because people lie when one answer is acceptable and the other is not.  If you want to know whether people wear masks, use a camera.

If both answers are acceptable, you can find out interesting things.   Like people who catch covid are more than twice as likely to have gone to restaurants as people who did not catch covid:









						Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 ...
					

Community and close contact exposures continue to drive the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. CDC and other public health authorities recommend community mitigation strategies ...




					www.cdc.gov


----------



## MacDre (Oct 13, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Mac,
> 
> With all do respect, your only child is 12.  Please don’t come around here preaching like you know or can relate to the trials and tribulations of families who have more than one child that are older and have completely different issues than a pre-teen kid.


I promise I’m not preaching.  I truly don’t understand the rush back to soccer.  Many frequently speak about their kids dreams to play college soccer but turn around and say their kid only plays soccer.  WTF?  I come from a time and place where kids played multiple sports.  This travel ball mentality is new and very strange to me.

So I guess my question to all regardless of whether your kid is 8, 12, or 16 is how is only playing soccer beneficial?  Doesn’t cross training increase athleticism and reduce risk of injury?  Doesn’t cross training increase the chance of excelling in soccer?


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I have some serious doubts as to the veracity of your statement regarding unknown risk.
> 
> COVID sucks for all but complaining doesn’t help.  I guess I’m a make lemonade out of lemons type of guy.  Isn’t mental fortitude an important quality for a keeper?  What about the adage *“if it doesn’t kill you, it will make you stronger?”*


That's what 99.5% of us are trying to get across to the .5% with all the power and decision making in our lives.  This virus is not killing and I repeat, the virus is not killing the kids.  My old adage is, "play ball."  It has to be about something else Dre and the kids are stuck in the middle and that is why one side will lose.  Mess with the kids life and you think that is a winning formula?  It's a lot like divorce, when the parents fight, the kids get used as pawns and trust me, divorce can get nasty.  Guess what, our kids are getting the short end of the stick all because some adults can;t get along and will do whatever and use whatever means necessary to get what they believe is rightfully theirs and most importantly, how wrong one side is.  I have my own special fund for my end of life care so I NEVER end up with one these docs making decisions for my health.  hell no!!!!


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 13, 2020)

dad4 said:


> This is why self reporting is a really bad way to gather data.  Yes, if you ask us, we all wear masks.
> 
> That's because people lie when one answer is acceptable and the other is not.  If you want to know whether people wear masks, use a camera.


If a policy such as a mask mandate is dependent upon people using them correctly and not cheating then it's not a fair defense of the policy to say it would have succeded if people had been better at it. The article does not say if the people were subject to a mask mandate, but there at least seems to be a social one because as you say "if you ask us, we all wear masks".  What your statement implies then is to be effective, police (or someone in authority), like seatbeats should be empowered to ticket (or some other sanction) of folks that go around removing masks for conversations, or taking them off early when sitting at a restaurant, or letting their noses peak out.  Or you are claiming the policy would fail because we have failed to properly "educate" people and have yet to build the perfect Soviet man.


----------



## chiefs (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> That's what 99.5% of us are trying to get across to the .5% with all the power and decision making in our lives.  This virus is not killing and I repeat, the virus is not killing the kids.  My old adage is, "play ball."  It has to be about something else Dre and the kids are stuck in the middle and that is why one side will lose.  Mess with the kids life and you think that is a winning formula?  It's a lot like divorce, when the parents fight, the kids get used as pawns and trust me, divorce can get nasty.  Guess what, our kids are getting the short end of the stick all because some adults can;t get along and will do whatever and use whatever means necessary to get what they believe is rightfully theirs and most importantly, how wrong one side is.  I have my own special fund for my end of life care so I NEVER end up with one these docs making decisions for my health.  hell no!!!!


If big tech doesn’t silence scientist, besides WHO, they need to start calling out the Fuhrors, whacky and diabolical decisions.  Start voting this man and his agenda out of office as soon as we can, so at least the divorce will be final.


----------



## Eagle33 (Oct 13, 2020)

chiefs said:


> If big tech doesn’t silence scientist, besides WHO, they need to start calling out the Fuhrors, whacky and diabolical decisions.  Start voting this man and his agenda out of office as soon as we can, so at least the divorce will be final.


It's very hard to vote out anyone if majority of people in CA who vote wearing mask inside their own cars


----------



## youthsportsugghhh (Oct 13, 2020)

The problem I have is how people keep saying the scientists obviously got it wrong in the beginning because they keep changing their minds. The science was and is correct -- the politicians are making it more.  Science gives you information and you do with it what you will. Terms like FEAR and TERRIFIED don't move things forward effectively just like calling names isn't productive.

The lockdown was the correct call at the beginning when things were severely unknown and new. Opening things up now has mixed results because not everyone is rowing in the same direction -- one side is rowing to the right and the other to the left -- not productive.  

IMO -- Wearing masks is still the correct call when out in public, but I don't have an issue with opening certain places up if space and precautions can be taken. That goes for youth sports -- I am skeptical that basketball going on in places isn't having an affect on the cases in the community. I can also see where it wouldn't be a big deal if the kids participating are all on the same page and really not having contact with the greater community. Suffice it to say -- I think soccer could work, but again it would take people actually working together to keep contacts in that limited group.


----------



## PruritusAniFC (Oct 13, 2020)

Bubba said:


> I joke around with my kids and tell them that if Biden wins get ready to play the following weekend and if Trump wins not until there is no corona virus


dont you mean the opposite


----------



## MacDre (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> That's what 99.5% of us are trying to get across to the .5% with all the power and decision making in our lives.  This virus is not killing and I repeat, the virus is not killing the kids.  My old adage is, "play ball."  It has to be about something else Dre and the kids are stuck in the middle and that is why one side will lose.  Mess with the kids life and you think that is a winning formula?  It's a lot like divorce, when the parents fight, the kids get used as pawns and trust me, divorce can get nasty.  Guess what, our kids are getting the short end of the stick all because some adults can;t get along and will do whatever and use whatever means necessary to get what they believe is rightfully theirs and most importantly, how wrong one side is.  I have my own special fund for my end of life care so I NEVER end up with one these docs making decisions for my health.  hell no!!!!


Are the parks in your hood closed Crush?  If so, why not ask your mayor to open them up?


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I promise I’m not preaching.  I truly don’t understand the rush back to soccer.  Many frequently speak about their kids dreams to play college soccer but turn around and say their kid only plays soccer.  WTF?  I come from a time and place where kids played multiple sports.  This travel ball mentality is new and very strange to me.
> 
> So I guess my question to all regardless of whether your kid is 8, 12, or 16 is how is only playing soccer beneficial?  Doesn’t cross training increase athleticism and reduce risk of injury?  Doesn’t cross training increase the chance of excelling in soccer?


I don't have the history at my finger tips, but the change began with the rise of the notion of "1000 touches a day" to become an expert at something, which really took off in the early 2000.  And IIRC it began with music (piano or violin).  The unfortunate reality is that there is some truth to that.  Human beings learn through repetition and muscle memory.  In either music or athletics, you want to get to the point where you don't have to think about something in order to execute it....your body has seen the scenario and just reacts to it.

Add to that complexity is that there is a lot to learn.  Take goalkeeping for example.  A goalkeeper (on top of being a great soccer player) must learn (partial list): handling and the various hand positions; positioning, footwork, and angel play; the low dive, the high dive, the forward dive (both collapse and extension, low/top/both hands); defending a cross or corner; high catches and tipping over bar; distribution (rolls, GKs, various throws, punts, sidewinder); defending the free kick; defending the penalty; tactics; communication; sweeper play and the backpass; and the 1 v 1 (and about 7+ different techniques to defend hem).  Once a week group lessons starting at age 12 isn't going to get you all these things yet the game requires a GK to know (if not be a master in) all of them.  It takes a year just to get the average kid GK to catch and dive without hurting themselves before you can even get to improving effective defensive play.

In the past a great all around athlete could fake it and make up with their athleticism.  But that was before a few individuals began to specialize and really learn their craft.  It's a bit of a prisoner's dilemma....if a few people are doing it, the others will fall behind unless they do it as well...it would take a collective agreement by everyone that no one is going to specialize, because as soon as 1 person does that person gains an inherent advantage.

It's not just limited to athletics either.  In law and medicine, for example, people used to be a lot more generalized but the scope of knowledge has grown over the last 20 or so years that it's impossible for 1 person to learn it all.  Even if medicine, for example, it's no longer enough to be just a urologist....instead you are a urologist that specializes in repairing bladder fissures.  Add to that specifically that colleges are looking for that specialized athlete, and have in general put an emphasis on people doing amazing things instead of being "well rounded", and you have where we are today.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Are the parks in your hood closed Crush?  If so, why not ask your mayor to open them up?


We need the Great Park to allow full contact soccer for kids.  We keep asking and were denied to play a soccer game.


----------



## watfly (Oct 13, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> What’s a Brazil nut?


Back in the day there was a common nickname for Brazil Nuts that was racially inappropriate.  But I suspect you already knew that.


----------



## Eagle33 (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> We need the Great Park to allow full contact soccer for kids.  We keep asking and were denied to play a soccer game.


You can go to any other Irvine park and do so without asking anyone.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> So where are all of these closed parks.  There are 2 state parks by my house and both are open (Benicia & East Bay Regional) I’ve also been to several city parks too (Benicia, Concord, Walnut Creek, Hercules, Vallejo, and Berkeley).  Santa Cruz, Mt. Lassen, and Tahoe (CA side) all open too.
> But, if city parks are closed, what does that have to do with Sacramento?


State parks?  Tahoe?  Lassen?  Those are all for adults.  How many kids can get to Tahoe or Lassen on their own?

I’m talking city parks and school yards.  Like the basketball court with no hoops down the street from me.  The city parks with the bathrooms locked 24/7.  Or the middle school field with no one playing baseball.  These are the places kids normally can go and play.

What do city park and rec closures have to do with Sacramento?  Sacramento has the infectious disease experts.  Sacramento asked for the shutdown.  Sacramento developed the watch list and the color system.  Now all of a sudden you want me to believe this is no time for central leadership?  

Hogwash.  Infectious disease is a key time for central leadership- both for shutdowns and openings.  So far, leadership on openings has focused on the things adults use.  Higher risk, but linked to employment so it gets attention.  

Some focus on opening kid entertainment would be helpful.  Especially because we still need guidance on how to open up intelligently.  

Instead, we are making up our own rules.  Even those of us who support Newsom are making it up as we go.  Why?  Because the state hasn’t given us a better alternative.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> You can go to any other Irvine park and do so without asking anyone.


My dd is at the age of recruitment now.  She followed the rules and decided to wait until June 15th to start the process.  I know she's selfish for even wanting to play soccer at the highest level in college in California.  As things stand, my soon to be 17 year old is sh*t out of luck and she should do something else with her time some say.  Well guess what?  She is determined to play and I'm determined to help her play.  After Nov 3rd, we shall see what the next moves will be.  If were like this through next year or past, then she's going to see how much she really loves soccer.  Right now, no official soccer games allowed in the state of California.


----------



## TOSDCI (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I have some serious doubts as to the veracity of your statement regarding unknown risk.
> 
> COVID sucks for all but complaining doesn’t help.  I guess I’m a make lemonade out of lemons type of guy.  Isn’t mental fortitude an important quality for a keeper?  What about the adage “if it doesn’t kill you, it will make you stronger?”


Until it does kill you, right?  Or your child/friend/neighbor/spouse?  And I'm not talking about Covid.  There are a lot of people hurting financially and emotionally right now.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 13, 2020)

dad4 said:


> State parks?  Tahoe?  Lassen?  Those are all for adults.  How many kids can get to Tahoe or Lassen on their own?
> 
> I’m talking city parks and school yards.  Like the basketball court with no hoops down the street from me.  The city parks with the bathrooms locked 24/7.  Or the middle school field with no one playing baseball.  These are the places kids normally can go and play.
> 
> ...


Very well.  Fair enough.


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

TangoCity said:


> #ZelenkoProtocol











						Letter to the editor: Health consequences
					

Editor: I am dismayed to see a long letter touting the “Zelenko Protocol” to treat COVID-19 in your July 26 paper. Perhaps a little fact-checking on your part would have been in order before deciding to publish this letter, since it has public-health consequences. According to Snopes (the...




					www.abqjournal.com


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I promise I’m not preaching.  I truly don’t understand the rush back to soccer.  Many frequently speak about their kids dreams to play college soccer but turn around and say their kid only plays soccer.  WTF?  I come from a time and place where kids played multiple sports.  This travel ball mentality is new and very strange to me.
> 
> So I guess my question to all regardless of whether your kid is 8, 12, or 16 is how is only playing soccer beneficial?  Doesn’t cross training increase athleticism and reduce risk of injury?  Doesn’t cross training increase the chance of excelling in soccer?


It’s not just the soccer, we come here to complain about it cause we have not other outlets for that singular part of the equation.  
The most difficult part to try to explain to them is how their friend and NT companions are playing because they live in a different state yet she can’t even run live contact drills.  Can’t play Beach Volleyball (another sport they enjoy) cause the County won’t allow it. It goes beyond the sport, but the sport represents a lot more to them than just the game.

yes....it does change as they get older some become more committed and some less.  Factor in hormones, social issues and you just start compounding problems.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 13, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> Until it does kill you, right?  Or your child/friend/neighbor/spouse?  And I'm not talking about Covid.  There are a lot of people hurting financially and emotionally right now.


No doubt and I’m not trying to minimize what folks are going through because I get it that “the struggle is real!”


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I promise I’m not preaching.  I truly don’t understand the rush back to soccer.  Many frequently speak about their kids dreams to play college soccer but turn around and say their kid only plays soccer.  WTF?  I come from a time and place where kids played multiple sports.  This travel ball mentality is new and very strange to me.
> 
> So I guess my question to all regardless of whether your kid is 8, 12, or 16 is how is only playing soccer beneficial?  Doesn’t cross training increase athleticism and reduce risk of injury?  Doesn’t cross training increase the chance of excelling in soccer?


Because soccer is known globally as the most beautiful game for a reason.  It's inherently more fun and satisfying participating in team sports than individual sports.

As a family we have done the biking, skateboarding, RC, swimming, poker (my 6-year-old knows how to play draw poker now thanks to Covid), piano, and countless other things over the past seven months.  But at the end of the day my kids like team sports above all else.

We are not in a "rush" to get back to soccer.  We patiently waited 7 months.  Compared to all the activities with non-zero risk that are allowed to open, soccer (also non-zero risk) is much safer in our own determination.

My DD goes to a school that offers both hybrid and virtual programs.  She chose hybrid and some of her best friends chose virtual only.  My DD doesn't ask her friends how long they will hide in the basement, and her friends don't accuse her of killing grandparents.  They respect each other's decisions and remain good friends.  We can all learn to act more like adults from our kids.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 13, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> It’s not just the soccer, we come here to complain about it cause we have not other outlets for that singular part of the equation.
> The most difficult part to try to explain to them is how their friend and NT companions are playing because they live in a different state yet she can’t even run live contact drills.  Can’t play Beach Volleyball (another sport they enjoy) cause the County won’t allow it. It goes beyond the sport, but the sport represents a lot more to them than just the game.
> 
> yes....it does change as they get older some become more committed and some less.  Factor in hormones, social issues and you just start compounding problems.


I was a fucking “crash dummy” from around 14-25 years old so I am not looking forward to adolescence.  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 13, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> If a policy such as a mask mandate is dependent upon people using them correctly and not cheating then it's not a fair defense of the policy to say it would have succeded if people had been better at it. The article does not say if the people were subject to a mask mandate, but there at least seems to be a social one because as you say "if you ask us, we all wear masks".  What your statement implies then is to be effective, police (or someone in authority), like seatbeats should be empowered to ticket (or some other sanction) of folks that go around removing masks for conversations, or taking them off early when sitting at a restaurant, or letting their noses peak out.  Or you are claiming the policy would fail because we have failed to properly "educate" people and have yet to build the perfect Soviet man.


Masks are helpful, and peer pressure is a major part of it.   Nothing wrong with that.  Peer pressure worked for drunk driving, too.

Which is why I object when people undermine the mask policy with medical misinformation, such as your study.  It measured mask use by the wrong person- the recipient of the virus instead of the source.   Even at that, it used a completely unreliable method to gather data.  What you have is poorly collected data about the wrong thing.  Not useful.  And, given the ongoing situation, counterproductive.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I was a fucking “crash dummy” from around 14-25 years old so I am not looking forward to adolescence.  Thanks for sharing.


Me too.....girls are very different than boys in their adolescence.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> My dd is at the age of recruitment now.  She followed the rules and decided to wait until June 15th to start the process.  I know she's selfish for even wanting to play soccer at the highest level in college in California.  As things stand, my soon to be 17 year old is sh*t out of luck and she should do something else with her time some say.  Well guess what?  She is determined to play and I'm determined to help her play.  After Nov 3rd, we shall see what the next moves will be.  If were like this through next year or past, then she's going to see how much she really loves soccer.  Right now, no official soccer games allowed in the state of California.


Help a brotha out Crush...why is your kid SOL in regards to playing at the highest level in California due to Covid?  Since she’s limiting herself to California, is it possible for her to contact the top schools in CA?  How many top schools are in CA Crush?


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

dad4 said:


> *Instead, we are making up our own rules.  Even those of us who support Newsom are making it up as we go.  Why?  Because the state hasn’t given us a better alternative.*


What else is new.  California is full of people who make the rules up as they see fit.  For example, the GDA forbid no HS Soccer.  Zero, zippo.  So my dd had the most agonizing decision.  She chose HS Soccer.  Then, the rich dads got waivers for their private school kids.  The goal post move every time it looks good to open things up.  What kind of game are we playing that so many people have lost everything, have to move or have to get abortion so they can continue on with their education?  This is a gnarly game to play and if your lucky enough not to be bastard, then you have a much better chance in life.


----------



## Desert Hound (Oct 13, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Masks are helpful, and peer pressure is a major part of it.   Nothing wrong with that.  Peer pressure worked for drunk driving, too.
> 
> Which is why I object when people undermine the mask policy with medical misinformation, such as your study.  It measured mask use by the wrong person- the recipient of the virus instead of the source.   Even at that, it used a completely unreliable method to gather data.  What you have is poorly collected data about the wrong thing.  Not useful.  And, given the ongoing situation, counterproductive.


I find that entertaining. So now you don't like what the CDC reports in their own study? The one that highlights masks appear not to be effective in preventing people from getting the virus? 

Which aligns with the 14 studies previously documented by the CDC that shows that outside of a medical setting masks have little utility.


----------



## watfly (Oct 13, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> My DD goes to a school that offers both hybrid and virtual programs.  She chose hybrid and some of her best friends chose virtual only.  My DD doesn't ask her friends how long they will hide in the basement, and her friends don't accuse her of killing grandparents.  They respect each other's decisions and remain good friends.  We can all learn to act more like adults from our kids.


Well said and it seems the kids understand "freedom of choice" better than adults.


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I find that entertaining. So now you don't like what the CDC reports in their own study? The one that highlights masks appear not to be effective in preventing people from getting the virus?
> 
> Which aligns with the 14 studies previously documented by the CDC that shows that outside of a medical setting masks have little utility.


From CDC FAQ, 4 days ago --

Are masks effective in preventing COVID-19?
Wearing cloth masks can help prevent people infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 from spreading the virus. Make sure your cloth mask: fits snugly but comfortably against the side of the face, completely covers the nose and mouth, is secured with ties or ear loops, includes multiple layers of fabric, allows for breathing without restriction, and can be laundered and machine dried without damage or change to shape. Cloth masks should NOT be worn by children less than 2 years old or anyone who has trouble breathing or is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Help a brotha out Crush...why is your kid SOL in regards to playing at the highest level in California due to Covid?  Since she’s limiting herself to California, is it possible for her to contact the top schools in CA?  How many top schools are in CA Crush?


Great question Dre.  My dd ((half Native American)) waited for this big moment in time.  To be able to play ((not looking for practice squad player at Big U)) in college is her dream.  She has plenty of interest.  The problem is being able to play when she get's there.  California is hard core.  I see these ladies talk and they remind me of school days and lady teachers always telling me, "Stop interrupting me, I'm the boss"  Boss lady is not what I'm looking for as I finish the back 9 in life.  My kids are getting played at that sucks and i will fight for them bro.  Plus, DH hubby is taking spots a way with his stupid letters of recommendations that are full of BS stories of how good the soccer player is when they played in AYSO.  When the bio of some of these fakers greatest sports accomplishment is horse racing and the D1 sport your playing is soccer, I got a problem with that and it actually really pisses me off.


----------



## Dubs (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I promise I’m not preaching.  I truly don’t understand the rush back to soccer.  Many frequently speak about their kids dreams to play college soccer but turn around and say their kid only plays soccer.  WTF?  I come from a time and place where kids played multiple sports.  This travel ball mentality is new and very strange to me.
> 
> So I guess my question to all regardless of whether your kid is 8, 12, or 16 is how is only playing soccer beneficial?  Doesn’t cross training increase athleticism and reduce risk of injury?  Doesn’t cross training increase the chance of excelling in soccer?


It does help, but unfortunately around 11-12 club soccer at the highest level requires so much time, there isn't time for the other sports. In addition, most soccer coaches at that level want their players only training/playing soccer.  If you do end up playing other sports, overuse becomes an issue.  Once HS hits, good luck with playing another sport.  It happens, but few and far inbetween.... but all of this has been discussed at nauseam as I'm sure you know.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> What else is new.  California is full of people who make the rules up as they see fit.  For example, the GDA forbid no HS Soccer.  Zero, zippo.  So my dd had the most agonizing decision.  She chose HS Soccer.  Then, the rich dads got waivers for their private school kids.  The goal post move every time it looks good to open things up.  What kind of game are we playing that so many people have lost everything, have to move or have to get abortion so they can continue on with their education?  This is a gnarly game to play and if your lucky enough not to be bastard, then you have a much better chance in life.


I’m a little less cynical about the rules.  If they said “max one game per 2 weeks, no spectators, no guest players, no tournaments”, I’d do it.

Instead, I’m planning NV/AZ trips, like everyone else.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> @EOTL and @messy and @espola  I challenge each one of you to a boxing match.  Big gloves so no one really gets fu^ked up.  I have to fight now guys.  I can;t take it anymore.  I will set this up at a park out in Ladera Ranch.  Rich one of you wants to go first?  I'm dead serious and please grant me this one wish.  If you kic my ass, I will never post here ever.  If I kick your ass, you can still post all you want.  What a day listen to DF and all the reasons why the Elitist girls in the 50s going to Sandford surely can;t get prego.  Oh no, that would be no bueno so kill baby.  WTF happen to us?  I can;t believe what I'm hearing.
> 
> View attachment 9249


I don’t condone hitting women.


----------



## Glitterhater (Oct 13, 2020)

I think we can all agree that if you lean one way, a simple google search and you can find articles, etc., that back your opinion. Same goes for your neighbor who leans the other way. That is part of the problem. Well meaning people don't know who/what to believe.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> Back in the day there was a common nickname for Brazil Nuts that was racially inappropriate.  But I suspect you already knew that.


Pretty crazy to see all the changes over my lifetime, progress.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> No doubt and I’m not trying to minimize what folks are going through because I get it that “the struggle is real!”


Struggle is a struggle but for others, some liked to make their struggle the struggle that we should all focus.  The fact is Dre, we all have different struggles and one struggle is just as important to someone else struggle.  Our country is struggling big time because everyone wants their struggle at the front of the line.  The rich elitist just cut through the line and cheat to be on top and have their struggle dealt with first because those with all the money can pay to have their struggle dealt with.  Everyone else gets in the back of the line.  I was a bastard big time when I was born.  DF said that is a big problem and we need to get rid of that problem that cause young rich girls to have to decide to carry baby for 9 months or to dispose it.  I will tell you regardless of the decision with the struggle, that decision will follow you all the way to the grave.  Both mom and dad have so much pain that DF never shares that part.  It's called a quick fix for a reason.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> I don’t condone hitting women.


Wow, I never thought about that.  I actually have always assumed all three of those three were dudes.  If one or all is a woman, I can;t fight.


----------



## Glitterhater (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> Wow, I never thought about that.  I actually have always assumed all three of those three were dudes.  If one or all is a woman, I can;t fight.


I may be totally off base here, but I assumed that he was just being Sheriff Joe with that comment.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> Wow, I never thought about that.  I actually have always assumed all three of those three were dudes.  If one or all is a woman, I can;t fight.


Not sure either, but judging by their posts odds are that they’re women or transitioning.


----------



## Anon9 (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> @EOTL and @messy and @espola  I challenge each one of you to a boxing match.  Big gloves so no one really gets fu^ked up.  I have to fight now guys.  I can;t take it anymore.  I will set this up at a park out in Ladera Ranch.  Rich one of you wants to go first?  I'm dead serious and please grant me this one wish.  If you kic my ass, I will never post here ever.  If I kick your ass, you can still post all you want.  What a day listen to DF and all the reasons why the Elitist girls in the 50s going to Sandford surely can;t get prego.  Oh no, that would be no bueno so kill baby.  WTF happen to us?  I can;t believe what I'm hearing.
> 
> View attachment 9249


I’ll be the ref.


----------



## El Clasico (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> Great question Dre.  My dd ((half Native American)) waited for this big moment in time.  To be able to play ((not looking for practice squad player at Big U)) in college is her dream.  She has plenty of interest.  The problem is being able to play when she get's there.  California is hard core.  I see these ladies talk and they remind me of school days and lady teachers always telling me, "Stop interrupting me, I'm the boss"  Boss lady is not what I'm looking for as I finish the back 9 in life.  My kids are getting played at that sucks and i will fight for them bro.  Plus, DH hubby is taking spots a way with his stupid letters of recommendations that are full of BS stories of how good the soccer player is when they played in AYSO.  When the bio of some of these fakers greatest sports accomplishment is horse racing and the D1 sport your playing is soccer, I got a problem with that and it actually really pisses me off.


Didn't you say your wife was from Guatemala?


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> I’ll be the ref.


I want EOTL first.  I have no idea who EOTL is and I welcome you to kick my ass. if you do, the forum is all yours. I will pay you EOTL $1,000 to take me on in Ladera Ranch.  Come on man, lets do it for fun and charity.  @Anon9 you can ref.  Do you know anyone on here here with a voice?


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

El Clasico said:


> Didn't you say your wife was from Guatemala?


You know, she's 24.9% Native American and 25% Mayan.  My mistake and good catch on my words.  I want to be factual and I embellished.  Please forgive me.


----------



## lafalafa (Oct 13, 2020)

What we are now seeing is a hyper divide of soccer for Socal teams:. Those that have the means to travel out of state to scrimmage, play in a league with out of state teams, or play in out of state tournaments.  Greater pay to play segregation

Travel to play out of state is becoming more common, all the Thanksgiving tournaments are out of state now so teams are planning to travel, Surf at new years, league games for out state teams, etc.

I dunno what  % of teams can afford to play out of state regularly and the time spend doing so but it's definitely trending higher as this goes on in CA.

There has to be some creative solutions to get some updates to the youth sports guidance, the traditional stuff hasn't worked, hopefully CIF gets that done in time for Dec football start but Im letting my gov reps know that youth sports is going on one way or the other so let's try to keep some of that local.


----------



## watfly (Oct 13, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> I think we can all agree that if you lean one way, a simple google search and you can find articles, etc., that back your opinion. Same goes for your neighbor who leans the other way. That is part of the problem. Well meaning people don't know who/what to believe.


That's why you have to look at actual data as to what has happened and base your decisions on reality.  Projections and future estimates are interesting talking points but are virtually worthless for predicting the future and at no point in time have expert's opinions been more worthless than during Covid.  The same so-called experts have changed their own opinions 180 degrees in some cases (like WHO and Fauci).

I hate masks, its uncomfortable rebreathing your own air and they fog up my glasses, but I suspect they provide some level of protection; however, small.  So I continue to wear them in indoor public spaces as required by the business.  Its a token inconvenience and it gives others a sense of security (even if it doesn't provide real security).  Please remember you can only get Covid from someone that has Covid and you can only spread Covid if you have it.  Some make it out to seem that if your in a group without masks your automatically going to get Covid.


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> Some make it out to seem that if your in a group without masks your automatically going to get Covid.


Who?


----------



## Anon9 (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> You know, she's 24.9% Native American and 25% Mayan.  My mistake and good catch on my words.  I want to be factual and I embellished.  Please forgive me.


Elizabeth Warren applied to college as Native American, even though she is 1/1024 NA. So you’re good.


----------



## Eagle33 (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> My dd is at the age of recruitment now.  She followed the rules and decided to wait until June 15th to start the process.  I know she's selfish for even wanting to play soccer at the highest level in college in California.  As things stand, my soon to be 17 year old is sh*t out of luck and she should do something else with her time some say.  Well guess what?  She is determined to play and I'm determined to help her play.  After Nov 3rd, we shall see what the next moves will be.  If were like this through next year or past, then she's going to see how much she really loves soccer.  Right now, no official soccer games allowed in the state of California.


she is too old to play in @Luis Andres tournament.....


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> I hate masks, its uncomfortable rebreathing your own air and they fog up my glasses, but I suspect they provide some level of protection; however, small.  So I continue to wear them in indoor public spaces as required by the business.  Its a token inconvenience and it gives others a sense of security (even if it doesn't provide real security).


I will confess before you all.  I wear the dam mask so I dont get yelled out by those on the left WHO wear their freaking mask as a political statement.  I dont want to get yelled out by some Karen or scared littlie kitten with claws.  Dam those cats!!!  Anyway, it's not worth it yet.  I hope someday to rip my mask off my face forever!!!  Were born on this planet to wear a mask so a 85 year old wont die?


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Elizabeth Warren applied to college as Native American, even though she is 1/1024 NA. So you’re good.


I told everyone my son is at SDSU for free!!!!  My dd just needs to stay in shape, play her ass off and get ready when her chance comes.  She was born for this and I'm helping her as long as she says, "when is my next game daddy."


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Elizabeth Warren applied to college as Native American, even though she is 1/1024 NA. So you’re good.


Source?


----------



## The HB Dad (Oct 13, 2020)

espola said:


> Source?





			https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/elizabeth-warren-apologizes-for-calling-herself-native-american/2019/02/05/1627df76-2962-11e9-984d-9b8fba003e81_story.html


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

espola said:


> Source?


"Pow Wow Chow" has the whole story bro.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

My wife is actually 12.5 Cherokee.  She told me her grandmother married a white dude.  Actually, Scottish men and Cherokee had much respect for another because both lived on the land and were treated bad in history.  They married one another in them early days I've been told.  Check this out @espola 

“The Scottish fur traders arrived in the colonies largely as single men. The Scots were so compatible with the Indians that after 1750 nearly all the fur traders among the Eastern Indians were Highland Scots. They soon aligned with Native American women. These marriages facilitated trade because Native wives usually taught their husbands their tribal languages.  It was well acknowledged the key roles that Native wives played in their husband's operations.
Historically there were a number of parallels between the American Indians and the Highland Scots. The two groups had much in common. The Cherokee admired the Highland Scots whom they considered *fellow warriors*.  Each had fought lengthy battles, stretching over centuries, both *against one another and against English speaking invaders.* Members of *both groups being driven from their homelands* deepened the parallel. Both were* mountain people with proud, independent, warrior societies who gloried in a good fight, rough games and reckless living.*  Each had achieved partial, but by no means complete, success in fending off invasions. *As indigenous peoples*, their social structures reflected numerous similarities.* Each viewed land as essentially a communal resource, not a commodity to be bought and sold for profit*.  *Each identified itself by bands or clans,* and since chiefdom descended through lineage, each devised a system flexible enough to allow selection of the best person for the job. Both were clan societies which considered loyalty to the clan their first obligation. An Indian's insistence on vengeance for the killing of a member of his clan was perfectly understood by an 18th century Highlander with a similar custom. There were even parallels between their harvest ceremonies. Both cultures were primarily oral, with *folklore and stories passed on to the children containing the distilled wisdom of their people*.  Finally, the d*eep wisdom and strength of character that each group has displayed over the centuries has allowed them to endure their calamities with dignity.” *


----------



## MacDre (Oct 13, 2020)

El Clasico said:


> Didn't you say your wife was from Guatemala?


Most Guatemalan’s and southern Mexicans are Native Americans.


----------



## chiefs (Oct 13, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> What we are now seeing is a hyper divide of soccer for Socal teams:. Those that have the means to travel out of state to scrimmage, play in a league with out of state teams, or play in out of state tournaments.  Greater pay to play segregation
> 
> Travel to play out of state is becoming more common, all the Thanksgiving tournaments are out of state now so teams are planning to travel, Surf at new years, league games for out state teams, etc.
> 
> ...


All I know and what I’ve seen going East for games is that calif is losing millions weekly from softball, baseball, volleyball, and soccer games.  Never seen it so busy on I-10, seen numerous moving vans...


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> she is too old to play in @Luis Andres tournament.....


She's going to be a ref.  She has lot's to say to crazy dad and mama bear.  I cant wait to film her being a ref.  They make good money too


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

The HB Dad said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/elizabeth-warren-apologizes-for-calling-herself-native-american/2019/02/05/1627df76-2962-11e9-984d-9b8fba003e81_story.html


What in that story responds to this? --  "Elizabeth Warren applied to college as Native American, even though she is 1/1024 NA."


----------



## Banana Hammock (Oct 13, 2020)

dad4 said:


> State parks?  Tahoe?  Lassen?  Those are all for adults.  How many kids can get to Tahoe or Lassen on their own?
> 
> I’m talking city parks and school yards.  Like the basketball court with no hoops down the street from me.  The city parks with the bathrooms locked 24/7.  Or the middle school field with no one playing baseball.  These are the places kids normally can go and play.
> 
> ...


( cross posting from another thread) 
The lack of league games is not stopping the boys from playing. In our area the older HS boys have formed their own "league" and scrimmage every week. There are no coaches and they manage themselves. There are enough boys to have four teams, and the last scrimmage that I watch, I saw four different club teams. They don't schedule any fields, they don't ask permission of any authority, they don't ask permission from their clubs. They just do it


----------



## Anon9 (Oct 13, 2020)

espola said:


> What in that story responds to this? --  "Elizabeth Warren applied to college as Native American, even though she is 1/1024 NA."





			https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-controversy-over-elizabeth-warrens-claimed-native-american-heritage/2012/09/27/d0b7f568-08a5-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_blog.html


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Most Guatemalan’s and southern Mexicans are Native Americans.


The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission says “American Indian or Alaska Native” are those “having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintain cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community recognition.”


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

chiefs said:


> All I know and what I’ve seen going East for games is that calif is *losing millions weekly* from softball, baseball, volleyball, and soccer games.  Never seen it so busy on I-10, seen numerous moving vans...


It's all going to Arizona and not San Diego. WHO is hurt by all this?  I know a tasty Mexican Taco place in Oceanside that took a huge hit because no soccer or sports.  It will soon read, "The Annual Economic Loss And Social and Mental Health Impact."


----------



## Anon9 (Oct 13, 2020)

espola said:


> What in that story responds to this? --  "Elizabeth Warren applied to college as Native American, even though she is 1/1024 NA."


Shut up already. You lost. Washington Post liberal too.


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-controversy-over-elizabeth-warrens-claimed-native-american-heritage/2012/09/27/d0b7f568-08a5-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_blog.html


That article debunks the claim.


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Shut up already. You lost. Washington Post liberal too.


What did I get wrong?


----------



## Anon9 (Oct 13, 2020)

espola said:


> What did I get wrong?





espola said:


> That article debunks the claim.











						New evidence has emerged Elizabeth Warren claimed American Indian heritage in 1986
					

Warren identified as "American Indian" on a registration card for the State Bar of Texas, according to a Washington Post report.




					www.google.com


----------



## Anon9 (Oct 13, 2020)

espola said:


> What did I get wrong?


So are you claiming she’s Native American? Cause she clearly checked the box.


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Most Guatemalan’s and southern Mexicans are Native Americans.


If this is true then I'm 1/4 native american (Inca ancestry...my dad even speaks Quechua)!  My understanding has always been that having indigenous peoples blood from south of the Rio Grande doesn't qualify you as Native American but rather Hispanic.  If that's wrong, I've been filling out my schooling and work applications wrong all these years.  Heck, when my sons and I were LARPing at Disneyland a few years back, I could have even proudly joined the Native American team.

But then, I've never understood the rules.  Back when I applied to the Ivies in the 80s, I was told I was inelligible for affirmative action because only people descended from Mexico and Puerto Rico qualified, and given my Peruvian/Spanish ancestry I was inelligible.


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> So are you claiming she’s Native American? Cause she clearly checked the box.


Clearly checked what box?  You posted "Elizabeth Warren applied to college as Native American".

In her admission application to Rutgers, she responded "No" to the question of whether she wanted to claim minority status.  Her UT-Austin employee directory entry lists her as "White".

That's in the WP article that has been linked twice in this thread already and that you apparently have not read yet.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Let me help you....
> 
> View attachment 9248


That doesn’t answer the question. This is the same evasive nonsense argument that kids aren’t killing each other, so it must be fine if they kill their family and other adults around them.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> @EOTL and @messy and @espola  I challenge each one of you to a boxing match.  Big gloves so no one really gets fu^ked up.  I have to fight now guys.  I can;t take it anymore.  I will set this up at a park out in Ladera Ranch.  Rich one of you wants to go first?  I'm dead serious and please grant me this one wish.  If you kic my ass, I will never post here ever.  If I kick your ass, you can still post all you want.  What a day listen to DF and all the reasons why the Elitist girls in the 50s going to Sandford surely can;t get prego.  Oh no, that would be no bueno so kill baby.  WTF happen to us?  I can;t believe what I'm hearing.
> 
> View attachment 9249


Well, if the rich one goes first, that must be me.


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Well, if the rich one goes first, that must be me.


Dammit - you made me break my ignore status on crush to read that?


----------



## MacDre (Oct 13, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> If this is true then I'm 1/4 native american (Inca ancestry...my dad even speaks Quechua)!  My understanding has always been that having indigenous peoples blood from south of the Rio Grande doesn't qualify you as Native American but rather Hispanic.  If that's wrong, I've been filling out my schooling and work applications wrong all these years.  Heck, when my sons and I were LARPing at Disneyland a few years back, I could have even proudly joined the Native American team.
> 
> But then, I've never understood the rules.  Back when I applied to the Ivies in the 80s, I was told I was inelligible for affirmative action because only people descended from Mexico and Puerto Rico qualified, and given my Peruvian/Spanish ancestry I was inelligible.


My daughters best friend is Chilean.  She’s 100% of European decent and very tall.  On the other hand, there’s a Peruvian girl in her class that’s 100% Native American and very short....yeah, it’s complicated.

I think it’s as clear as mud if you are “mestizo” whether you qualify for affirmative action.  It complicates things further that most Americans don’t have passports or travel to Latin America and don’t understand the social dynamics of those countries.

I think many Latinos/Hispanics claim their European heritage over their Indigenous because of discrimination due to caste system in all of these places from Colonialism.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Well, if the rich one goes first, that must be me.


I think your rich #1 and then Messy is 7 figure and he goes 2nd.  Espy is an old soul and I bet he has a nice retirement but not all the extras.  Probably lives in Norths san dieo and EOTL is on the beach or close to La Jolla.  Messy is in Santa Monica and doing very well for himself so he can take on the winner of you and me EOTL.  My goal is to knock you out and then knock out Messy.  After that, I will go have coffee with Magoo and find out who he really is.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I think many Latinos/Hispanics claim their European heritage over their Indigenous because of discrimination due to caste system in all of these places from Colonialism.


My wife would get humilted a little coming up from UCSD to visit her parents in LA.  The boarder dudes in San Onofre would make her smile to see her teeth.  They said it very mean.  "Smile!!!!!"  If bad teeth, pulled your ass out of the line and talked to you some more.  They would ask, "what part of Mexico are you coming from?"  Fact is, she's is not from Mexico and neither were her parents or their parents and so on and so on.  Labeling is wrong and it's only because of that stupid thing called, "perception."  Perception is ones jealousy of lies they form in their brain of jealousy.  Label label label is so lame and I'm sick of it!!!


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I think many Latinos/Hispanics claim their European heritage over their Indigenous because of discrimination due to caste system in all of these places from Colonialism.


I still think the Native Americans would have kicked my teeth in if I had tried to claim membership in that group during the Disneyland LARP.  And I so wanted in.....they were one of the elite groups over the orange-yellow fray until the white team showed up and ruined everything.
Ahhh the fun we had before team sports came along, (and way way before pandemics).


----------



## NorCalDad (Oct 13, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> If a policy such as a mask mandate is dependent upon people using them correctly and not cheating then it's not a fair defense of the policy to say it would have succeded if people had been better at it. The article does not say if the people were subject to a mask mandate, but there at least seems to be a social one because as you say "if you ask us, we all wear masks".  What your statement implies then is to be effective, police (or someone in authority), like seatbeats should be empowered to ticket (or some other sanction) of folks that go around removing masks for conversations, or taking them off early when sitting at a restaurant, or letting their noses peak out.  Or you are claiming the policy would fail because we have failed to properly "educate" people and have yet to build the perfect Soviet man.


Did y'all even read the report The Federalist referred to?



			https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6936a5-H.pdf
		


Come on folks! Quite the spin from The Federalist.


----------



## watfly (Oct 13, 2020)

All politics aside, I think its prudent at this point for the leagues to postpone their planned starting dates until January (although there is certainly no guarantees of starting then).  Given that we're technically not allowed to even have contact at practice or scrimmage and given the interruptions of the holidays, its seems reasonable to plan on starting on January instead of hoping for approval before January and starting with a disjointed and unprepared season.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> My wife would get humilted a little coming up from UCSD to visit her parents in LA.  The boarder dudes in San Onofre would make her smile to see her teeth.  They said it very mean.  "Smile!!!!!"  If bad teeth, pulled your ass out of the line and talked to you some more.  They would ask, "what part of Mexico are you coming from?"  Fact is, she's is not from Mexico and neither were her parents or their parents and so on and so on.  Labeling is wrong and it's only because of that stupid thing called, "perception."  Perception is ones jealousy of lies they form in their brain of jealousy.  Label label label is so lame and I'm sick of it!!!


Guatemala used to be S. Mexico.


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> All politics aside, I think its prudent at this point for the leagues to postpone their planned starting dates until January (although there is certainly no guarantees of starting then).  Given that we're technically not allowed to even have contact at practice or scrimmage and given the interruptions of the holidays, its seems reasonable to plan on starting on January instead of hoping for approval before January and starting with a disjointed and unprepared season.


I'd agree with this. It would also allow the players/families time to organize blackmarket pickup scrimmages and/or finalize Arizona/NV/Ut tournament plans.  Would also give clarity for who's in and whose out.  While they are at it, they really need to pull the trigger on State Cup too....the youngers at least won't be able to make it given that even a truncated season would run into it.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> All politics aside, I think its prudent at this point for the leagues to postpone their planned starting dates until January (although there is certainly no guarantees of starting then).  Given that we're technically not allowed to even have contact at practice or scrimmage and given the interruptions of the holidays, its seems reasonable to plan on starting on January instead of hoping for approval before January and starting with a disjointed and unprepared season.


I disagree for ECNL U16 and olders.  Everyone else, yes, please wait until January.  Look, I paid for last half of season and got zero games.  Then I'm paying this half of the season and guess what?  No games.  That means I've paid for one whole seasons worth of games and guess how many games my $3000 gave me?  Zippo!!!  I promise I'm not looking for a refund, I'm just SMFH and it's all directed at me.  I gambled my money and I'm still holding out hope for a miracle after Nov 3rd......


----------



## NorCalDad (Oct 13, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I find that entertaining. So now you don't like what the CDC reports in their own study? The one that highlights masks appear not to be effective in preventing people from getting the virus?
> 
> Which aligns with the 14 studies previously documented by the CDC that shows that outside of a medical setting masks have little utility.


I don't believe you actually read the study.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Guatemala used to be S. Mexico.


It was stereotype on her at the time.  You talk to Mexicans and folks from Guatemala these days and see what they have to say about being one big happy family.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I have some serious doubts as to the veracity of your statement regarding unknown risk.
> 
> COVID sucks for all but complaining doesn’t help.  I guess I’m a make lemonade out of lemons type of guy.  Isn’t mental fortitude an important quality for a keeper?  What about the adage “if it doesn’t kill you, it will make you stronger?”


"I have some serious doubts as to the veracity of your statement regarding unknown risk."  

LOL...I am a high risk person who was knocking on deaths door for 2 weeks 18 years ago and have no intention of doing that again not because of fear (they give you enough drugs when you are at that point you don't even know you are at deaths door and I know Heaven is a great place), but because I don't want to leave my kids without a parent right now.  So....as I am sure you can understand, I have looked at playing soccer from every different direction possible including reviewing scientific studies and the following information:

1. Outdoor dining with no masks has been allowed for months with no set backs.  
2. Arizona is one of the few states that has almost reached testing targets since they were scared straight and have been playing the game with no outbreaks and is at the same State risk level as California (California is NOT near testing targets).
3. New York and neighboring states continue to reach testing targets and have been playing the game with no outbreaks.
4. The CDC is condoning outdoor activity with precautions.
5. The SEC and ACCN games have been back to playing for several weeks now with no reported outbreaks because of the game.  (I am creating a drinking game to drink every time you see a coach touch the front of their mask or pull up their mask when the camera is on them.)  
*6. CDC-*
"The virus most often spreads through people who have symptoms." (I doubt a majority of parents would permit their child to play with symptoms of COVID which is "most often" how the virus spreads)....even if they do;
*7. CDC-Considerations for who should get tested*

People who have symptoms of COVID-19
People who have had close contact (within 6 feet of an infected person for at least 15 minutes) with someone with confirmed COVID-19
Given that:* 1.*"15 minutes" of close contact ("within 6 feet") with an infected person is the low bar set for determining the need for testing and scientific studies support the 15 minute rule; *2.* the nature of the game that limits the possibility of having 15 minutes of close contact ("within 6 feet") especially face to face (when in close contact players are usually looking down at the ball and/or are side by side and generally involves seconds of close contact); *3.* all of the other live experiments in 40 something other states (many higher risk states) and *4.* 47 other states and their medical experts have given approval to play soccer games, playing the game appears to be a very low risk activity. 

In addition, when I considered the potential spread to my community if all of the above was proven to be wrong and there was a spread linked to a soccer game, I looked at the protocols of masks and social distancing that have been scientifically proven to diminish the risk of spread and my own live experiments (1. Client with 400 employees in Santa Ana a hot spot that has been working indoors since April with mask requirements and cubicle dividers, and has only had isolated incidents with no spread, and 2. My friend that is in management at a residential facility with protocols in place that also has had isolated incidents with no spread).

I see the greatest risk of spread is at the sidelines and gatherings.  That is where protocols are very very important and enforcement is necessary.


----------



## NorCalDad (Oct 13, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I'd agree with this. It would also allow the players/families time to organize blackmarket pickup scrimmages and/or finalize Arizona/NV/Ut tournament plans.  Would also give clarity for who's in and whose out.  While they are at it, they really need to pull the trigger on State Cup too....the youngers at least won't be able to make it given that even a truncated season would run into it.


For CAN, State Cup has been pushed out to spring for the youngers.  What's happening in CAS?


----------



## N00B (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> That means I've paid for one whole seasons worth of games and guess how many games my $3000 gave me?  Zippo!!!


Not directed at you, Crush, but I think this comment is reflective of the thoughts of many SoCal Soccer parents this year.  

I think many parents ‘feel’ they’re not getting what they paid for.  Probably due to a lack of transparency at many clubs regarding club fees, combined with the letter league recruiting that goes on.  It’s easy to correlate fees with games, but in most cases the majority of those club fees are for training, not league related costs.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

N00B said:


> Not directed at you, Crush, but I think this comment is reflective of the thoughts of many SoCal Soccer parents this year.
> 
> I think many parents ‘feel’ they’re not getting what they paid for.  Probably due to a lack of transparency at many clubs regarding club fees, combined with the letter league recruiting that goes on.  It’s easy to correlate fees with games, but in most cases the majority of those club fees are for training, not league related costs.


I hear ya and I have no issues with paying $3,000 for training.  However, If I know what I know today, I would have sat out and kept my $3000 and gave it to my dd towards college.  At this rate, socal girls will not play in a local soccer game for a long time and she might as well go try something else to play.  Woe is me and I'm only talking to myself.  I knew all the risk and Eagle was right and I was wrong.  I lost two bets and $3,000.  The training has sucked and its not the coaches fault.  It sucks because it's weak 6 x 6.


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 13, 2020)

N00B said:


> Not directed at you, Crush, but I think this comment is reflective of the thoughts of many SoCal Soccer parents this year.
> 
> I think many parents ‘feel’ they’re not getting what they paid for.  Probably due to a lack of transparency at many clubs regarding club fees, combined with the letter league recruiting that goes on.  It’s easy to correlate fees with games, but in most cases the majority of those club fees are for training, not league related costs.





crush said:


> I hear ya and I have no issues with paying $3,000 for training.  However, If I know what I know today, I would have sat out and kept my $3000 and gave it to my dd towards college.  At this rate, socal girls will not play in a local soccer game for a long time and she might as well go try something else to play.  Woe is me and I'm only talking to myself.  I knew all the risk and Eagle was right and I was wrong.  I lost two bets and $3,000.  The training has sucked and its not the coaches fault.  It sucks because it's weak 6 x 6.



Economically really what you are paying for is: a) to reserve your spot on the particular team, and b) any socialization your kid gets out of it.  If you are talking pure soccer skills, assuming the coaches are observing the distancing rules and not holding blackmarket scrimmages or going out of state, you'd be better off pouring the money into a private trainer for the year and sparing yourself the coaching fees/field rentals/uniform costs.

It's really hard for parents to plan anything, though.  My kid is playing down, the fees are really cheap, as a GK I don't mind he'd be missing his first year in the big goal (known as the "hell year" to most aspiring goalkeepers), so if socializing with his teammates keeps him going through the craziness I'm ok with it.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> That doesn’t answer the question. This is the same evasive nonsense argument that kids aren’t killing each other, so it must be fine if they kill their family and other adults around them.


What you term evasive (cause you like to stir shit up) is the simple reality. It isn’t happening...the data proves it.
You don’t understand the plight because you can in no way relate. So sit down unless called upon cause you have ZERO to add.  

Have a nice day!


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> What you term evasive (cause you like to stir shit up) is the simple reality. It isn’t happening...the data proves it.
> You don’t understand the plight because you can in no way relate. So sit down unless called upon cause you have ZERO to add.
> 
> Have a nice day!


Hey Kicker, I know you to be a very strong dad.  If I were to lose my boxing match with this dude EOTL, would you like to jump the line of Messy to get crack at him?  EOTL, you cool with that?  Also, many people on here have multiple avatars.  If you happen to be Maps EOTL, the fight is 100% off and you and Kicker can go at it.........


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 13, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> I may be totally off base here, but I assumed that he was just being Sheriff Joe with that comment.


You would be correct.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> My daughters best friend is Chilean.  She’s 100% of European decent and very tall.  On the other hand, there’s a Peruvian girl in her class that’s 100% Native American and very short....yeah, it’s complicated.
> 
> I think it’s as clear as mud if you are “mestizo” whether you qualify for affirmative action.  It complicates things further that most Americans don’t have passports or travel to Latin America and don’t understand the social dynamics of those countries.
> 
> I think many Latinos/Hispanics claim their European heritage over their Indigenous because of discrimination due to caste system in all of these places from Colonialism.


Palease


----------



## watfly (Oct 13, 2020)

Just an observation.  It seems that the burden of proof for reopening is upon the reopeners, whereas being shutdown is the unprecedented anomaly, but is being treated as the normal course currently.  How did this get flipped on us?  Its ironic that those who are reluctant to reopening only have to criticize the evidence presented by the reopeners but provide no evidence to support continued closures.

The burden of proof should be on the unprecedented anomaly, not the normal.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> What you term evasive (cause you like to stir shit up) is the simple reality. It isn’t happening...the data proves it.
> You don’t understand the plight because you can in no way relate. So sit down unless called upon cause you have ZERO to add.
> 
> Have a nice day!


Nope, not sitting down.

How many people are dying because people under 19 are spreading it? We all know it’s uncommon for them to kill each other, but how many other people are they killing? How many are they infecting when they carpool to their sports? When they check into hotel rooms? When they eat out?  When they go home? And while I’m asking, how many people need to die overall before you will be willing to admit that you were wrong?

Of course, the answer is that you don’t care how many people die in order for your kid to play their little kiddie sport. Her coach? Fine. School teacher? Whatevs. Her teammate’s parent? Sure, they never signed up for snacks anyway. It’s the American way to not give a s**t about anyone other than yourself which, of course, is exactly why you’re still in this predicament.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 13, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Guatemala used to be S. Mexico.


Socal is both now.


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> Just an observation.  It seems that the burden of proof for reopening is upon the reopeners, whereas being shutdown is the unprecedented anomaly, but is being treated as the normal course currently.  How did this get flipped on us?  Its ironic that those who are reluctant to reopening only have to criticize the evidence presented by the reopeners but provide no evidence to support continued closures.
> 
> The burden of proof should be on the unprecedented anomaly, not the normal.


Well, the corrollary to this as well is that there has been a complete lack of cost/benefit analysis being done for any restrictions advocated.  Particularly in California, it's been (with the exception of Disneyland because that is the thing that would break the dam wide open) which constituency group squaks the loudest and how much clout they have.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Nope, not sitting down.
> 
> How many people are dying because people under 19 are spreading it? We all know it’s uncommon for them to kill each other, but how many other people are they killing? How many are they infecting when they carpool to their sports? When they check into hotel rooms? When they eat out?  When they go home? And while I’m asking, how many people need to die overall before you will be willing to admit that you were wrong?
> 
> Of course, the answer is that you don’t care how many people die in order for your kid to play their little kiddie sport. Her coach? Fine. School teacher? Whatevs. Her teammate’s parent? Sure, they never signed up for snacks anyway. It’s the American way to not give a s**t about anyone other than yourself which, of course, is exactly why you’re still in this predicament.


Show me a report that detail, conclusively how many have....until then, have a seat!

By the way, congratulations to Coach Bowden, 90 and beat the Rona!


----------



## watfly (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> How many people are dying because people under 19 are spreading it? We all know it’s uncommon for them to kill each other, but how many other people are they killing? How many are they infecting when they carpool to their sports? When they check into hotel rooms? When they eat out?  When they go home?


Great questions, I anxiously await your answer.

(Seems to prove the point of my post of a few minutes ago)


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> Just an observation.  It seems that the burden of proof for reopening is upon the reopeners, whereas being shutdown is the unprecedented anomaly, but is being treated as the normal course currently.  How did this get flipped on us?  Its ironic that those who are reluctant to reopening only have to criticize the evidence presented by the reopeners but provide no evidence to support continued closures.
> 
> The burden of proof should be on the unprecedented anomaly, not the normal.


220k plus dead people so far. CA continues to have a below avg. infection and death rate despite areas with the highest population densities in the entire U.S. Restrictions are savings lives despite the inordinate number of dumbs**ts who keep f**king it up for those of us who want to get back to work and soccer practice without killing people. 

In the end, it doesn’t matter how compelling the evidence, because ya’ll just deny it. Otherwise, you’d answer how many dead people is an acceptable number in exchange for getting what you want.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> Great questions, I anxiously await your answer.
> 
> (Seems to prove the point of my post of a few minutes ago)


You’ll know you’ve got him when:

1) he starts hurling the “you’re ok with killing over 200k people”
2) starts to insult you
3) tries to change the argument


----------



## soccersc (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> 220k plus dead people so far. CA continues to have a below avg. infection and death rate despite areas with the highest population densities in the entire U.S. Restrictions are savings lives despite the inordinate number of dumbs**ts who keep f**king it up for those of us who want to get back to work and soccer practice without killing people.
> 
> In the end, it doesn’t matter how compelling the evidence, because ya’ll just deny it. Otherwise, you’d answer how many dead people is an acceptable number in exchange for getting what you want.


You are so funny hahaha...you just like to stir the pot, but doesnt it get old??? Do you read any publications or do you just look at the death rate and that is the end all?


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> Just an observation.  It seems that the burden of proof for reopening is upon the reopeners, whereas being shutdown is the unprecedented anomaly, but is being treated as the normal course currently.  How did this get flipped on us?  Its ironic that those who are reluctant to reopening only have to criticize the evidence presented by the reopeners but provide no evidence to support continued closures.
> 
> The burden of proof should be on the unprecedented anomaly, not the normal.


No evidence?  Only if you read news filtered to please your preconceptions and desires.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Show me a report that detail, conclusively how many have....until then, have a seat!
> 
> By the way, congratulations to Coach Bowden, 90 and beat the Rona!


Congrats to Bowden, and also to Brian Lee Hutchins, this week’s Herman Cain Memorial Award winner, and first living recipient. Wifey not so lucky though. Maybe she would have survived if he didn’t believe it was a hoax and had taken her to the hospital.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

soccersc said:


> You are so funny hahaha...you just like to stir the pot, but doesnt it get old??? Do you read any publications or do you just look at the death rate and that is the end all?


I guess this is what you people do when you can’t deny facts. Where’s @MSK357 when you need him?


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> You’ll know you’ve got him when:
> 
> 1) he starts hurling the “you’re ok with killing over 200k people”
> 2) starts to insult you
> 3) tries to change the argument


No worries. We’ll be in the 300k range before you know it.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Socal is both now.


Racist.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> Some make it out to seem that if your in a group without masks your automatically going to get Covid.


The other thing that may be a problem is that people feel like a mask will protect them as much as distancing.


----------



## Willie (Oct 13, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> You’ll know you’ve got him when:
> 
> 1) he starts hurling the “you’re ok with killing over 200k people”
> 2) starts to insult you
> 3) tries to change the argument


Why do you even interact with  EOTL and Espola?  They are nothing but trouble makers.


----------



## Footy30 (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> *All politics aside, I think its prudent at this point for the leagues to postpone their planned starting dates until January (although there is certainly no guarantees of starting then).  Given that we're technically not allowed to even have contact at practice or scrimmage and given the interruptions of the holidays, its seems reasonable to plan on starting on January instead of hoping for approval before January and starting with a disjointed and unprepared season.*


THIS!!! 100%


----------



## socalkdg (Oct 13, 2020)

N00B said:


> Not directed at you, Crush, but I think this comment is reflective of the thoughts of many SoCal Soccer parents this year.
> 
> I think many parents ‘feel’ they’re not getting what they paid for.  Probably due to a lack of transparency at many clubs regarding club fees, combined with the letter league recruiting that goes on.  It’s easy to correlate fees with games, but in most cases the majority of those club fees are for training, not league related costs.


In the past 6 months I've paid $200 to the club.   About $750 to a private keeper trainer.   Well worth every dollar for both.    Kid trains and practices 4-5 days a week.   She doesn't ask to go back to school (actually likes school from home as she wakes up at 7:30,  takes a nap or grabs food whenever, and gabs on her phone) but she does wonder why we aren't playing any games.   She doesn't need a big tournament, just wants some games.   

Open up scrimmages.  Take notes.   Then decide what to do next.


----------



## NorCalDad (Oct 13, 2020)

I mean if you look at deaths, CA is doing substantially better than Texas and Florida.  Pretty much night and day.  Why?  Not sure, but I feel pretty confident it has nothing to do with restricting youth sports to where it is today.  It's also sad that the last time youth sports state guidelines were updated was on 8/3.  That was close to peak.  We're over 2 months from that date.  I'm not on the moronic bandwagon of suggesting to recall Newsom, but it is indeed time these guidelines get updated and loosened up.  The data is pretty much irrefutable.


----------



## Footy30 (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> I disagree for ECNL U16 and olders.  Everyone else, yes, please wait until January.  Look, I paid for last half of season and got zero games.  Then I'm paying this half of the season and guess what?  No games.  That means I've paid for one whole seasons worth of games and guess how many games my $3000 gave me?  Zippo!!!  I promise I'm not looking for a refund, I'm just SMFH and it's all directed at me.  I gambled my money and I'm still holding out hope for a miracle after Nov 3rd......


Unfortunately Crush, we all did and it sucks big time, but at this point we have to let it go (money we paid) because we aren't getting it back and if we dwell on it, it will piss us off even more....


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

Willie said:


> Why do you even interact with  EOTL and Espola?  They are nothing but trouble makers.


You call me trouble maker because I always post facts, thus upsetting your comforting myths.


----------



## socalkdg (Oct 13, 2020)

espola said:


> You call me trouble maker because I always post *OPINIONS*, thus upsetting your comforting myths.


Fixed that for you.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> Unfortunately Crush, we all did and it sucks big time, but at this point we have to let it go (money we paid) because we aren't getting it back and if we dwell on it, it will piss us off even more....


I'm not pissed at all I promise.  I kind of feel like when they cancel a soccer game because of the fields could get damage because of the light showers and potential of more rain. "You can;t hurt the fields."  Same old thing.  I did invest in $3K so I get to speak all I want on this subject.  I bet we get some league games before the first of the year.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> I mean if you look at deaths, CA is doing substantially better than Texas and Florida.  Pretty much night and day.  Why?  Not sure, but I feel pretty confident it has nothing to do with restricting youth sports to where it is today.  It's also sad that the last time youth sports state guidelines were updated was on 8/3.  That was close to peak.  We're over 2 months from that date.  I'm not on the moronic bandwagon of suggesting to recall Newsom, but it is indeed time these guidelines get updated and loosened up.  The data is pretty much irrefutable.


Social distancing requires a concerted effort. It does not mean social distancing except when I don’t want to. For every idiot soccer parent who thinks the risk that someone will die because of their specific interaction is low, there are tens of thousands of other idiots who think the risk is low if they go to the park, the restaurant, the bar, work, music class, the museum, school, bbq at their friends’ house, etc. And you know what, they’re all right. But they’re still all idiots because more social interactions means more dead people.

Effective social distancing cannot be a la carte.  Yes, there are activities that must continue at the expense of some lives. Youth soccer is not one of them in my opinion, or that of the governor of the one state that has managed to save the most lives through social distancing requirements.  If you think it is, that’s your opinion.  And if that’s your opinion, how many people need to die before you decide that you were wrong?


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

BTW, the Crush is ready to Box.  This is the only remedy for my soul.  I knew this minister brother back in the day and he was like Mr California runner up for body lifting.  He thought he was so tuff and had an answer for everything.  One day we had a big carnival to invite folks like EOTL to hear the message of the good news.  Anyway, this tuff guy minister for Jesus kept egging me on and finally I had had enough and I went Tyson on him in front of his wife and kids.  He acted like he was the chosen speaker for God and I kept a lot of that pinned up for years. It was so awesome and his wife actually rebuked me kicking her husbands butt.  This guy had no coordination at all and his big ass muscles made it worse for him.  I was quick as lightning and went jab jab jab and then swung for the fence and knocked him on the ground.


----------



## Socal619x (Oct 13, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Because in this case, the risk has been politicized.  Science has been politicized.  Politics have hijacked every aspect of life, especially in states like CA.
> 
> The suggestion that you should mask up  in between bites of food speaks volumes.


Most definitely


----------



## Desert Hound (Oct 13, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> I don't believe you actually read the study.


I did. 

Here is the chart where the 70% # comes from FYI. 



And here is the paragraph talking about that percentage.


----------



## watfly (Oct 13, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> You’ll know you’ve got him when:
> 
> 1) he starts hurling the “you’re ok with killing over 200k people”
> 2) starts to insult you
> 3) tries to change the argument


In his defense, he has the myopic and emotional appeal angle nailed backed by a wicked ad hominem game.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 13, 2020)

espola said:


> You call me trouble maker because I always post facts, thus upsetting your comforting myths.


You would t know a fact if it bit you in your ass!


----------



## Desert Hound (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> The burden of proof should be on the unprecedented anomaly, not the normal.


Especially in light of how often the predictions have been wrong and how as the data comes out we see the vast majority of people have virtually no risk. 

We know who is at risk and they are the ones who should be targeted.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> I mean if you look at deaths, CA is doing substantially better than Texas and Florida.  Pretty much night and day.  Why?  Not sure, but I feel pretty confident it has nothing to do with restricting youth sports to where it is today.  It's also sad that the last time youth sports state guidelines were updated was on 8/3.  That was close to peak.  We're over 2 months from that date.  I'm not on the moronic bandwagon of suggesting to recall Newsom, but it is indeed time these guidelines get updated and loosened up.  The data is pretty much irrefutable.


What data is irrefutable?  Where is your “data” to support your proposition that “I feel pretty confident  it has nothing to do with restricting youth sports...”?  

The problem with this line of thinking is that it tries to parse out youth soccer when social distancing cannot be a la carte. At the same time you are posting this, there’s some idiot posting the exact same words in his bbq forum, except substituting “grilling some ribs” with “youth soccer.” And someone at an AA forum substituting “in person  recovery meeting”.  And his former bartender posting the same except “mixing margaritas” instead of “youth soccer”. There are millions of people complaining that the thing that is important to them is the thing for which an exception should be made. Youth soccer is apparently a big deal for you, but objectively it is a ridiculously stupid and inconsequential activity under current circumstances.


----------



## Footy30 (Oct 13, 2020)

crush said:


> I'm not pissed at all I promise.  I kind of feel like when they cancel a soccer game because of the fields could get damage because of the light showers and potential of more rain. "You can;t hurt the fields."  Same old thing.  I did invest in $3K so I get to speak all I want on this subject.  I bet we get some league games before the first of the year.


Well if I've learned anything from this forum it's that people come on here to vent, so go for it!! I agree as I'm sure everyone else who paid it sucks. Try not to let it get the best of you, Crush seemed to be pretty zen and chill. I hope we can at least start in January. 

Here is a question for anyone who wants to guess... lets say league does start in Jan. when in the hell will it end???


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> In his defense, he has the myopic and emotional appeal angle nailed backed by a wicked ad hominem game.


Almost like I wrote the script.  He was right on que!


----------



## Desert Hound (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> How many people are dying because people under 19 are spreading it?


Actually The Atlantic was reporting that despite the fear of many, younger people are not big spreaders of covid.









						Schools Aren’t Super-Spreaders
					

Fears from the summer appear to have been overblown.




					www.theatlantic.com


----------



## Glitterhater (Oct 13, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> In the past 6 months I've paid $200 to the club.   About $750 to a private keeper trainer.   Well worth every dollar for both.    Kid trains and practices 4-5 days a week.   She doesn't ask to go back to school (actually likes school from home as she wakes up at 7:30,  takes a nap or grabs food whenever, and gabs on her phone) but she does wonder why we aren't playing any games.   She doesn't need a big tournament, just wants some games.
> 
> Open up scrimmages.  Take notes.   Then decide what to do next.


I like this approach. Let's at least take a small step forward, asses the results, and go from there. At this point that is more than reasonable.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Especially in light of how often the predictions have been wrong and how as the data comes out we see the vast majority of people have virtually no risk.
> 
> We know who is at risk and they are the ones who should be targeted.


The predictions about hundreds of thousands was very accurate. What was your prediction about how many people would die? How many more dead people is an acceptable risk so you can live vicariously through your kid?


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> Well if I've learned anything from this forum it's that people come on here to vent, so go for it!! I agree as I'm sure everyone else who paid it sucks. Try not to let it get the best of you, Crush seemed to be pretty zen and chill. I hope we can at least start in January.
> 
> Here is a question for anyone who wants to guess... lets say league does start in Jan. when in the hell will it end???


Boxing is a good way to release pin up pain from all these years.  I'm going back to chill and zen soon.  Just got triggered a little this morning.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> In his defense, he has the myopic and emotional appeal angle nailed backed by a wicked ad hominem game.


Let's not bring up ad hominem's. Please.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Let's not bring up ad hominem's. Please.


Yes. Save the ad hominems for the racist bottom feeding douchebags who troll the deep recesses of these waters.


----------



## NorCalDad (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> What data is irrefutable?  Where is your “data” to support your proposition that “I feel pretty confident  it has nothing to do with restricting youth sports...”?
> 
> The problem with this line of thinking is that it tries to parse out youth soccer when social distancing cannot be a la carte. At the same time you are posting this, there’s some idiot posting the exact same words in his bbq forum, except substituting “grilling some ribs” with “youth soccer.” And someone at an AA forum substituting “in person  recovery meeting”.  And his former bartender posting the same except “mixing margaritas” instead of “youth soccer”. There are millions of people complaining that the thing that is important to them is the thing for which an exception should be made. Youth soccer is apparently a big deal for you, but objectively it is a ridiculously stupid and inconsequential activity under current circumstances.


The studies that have been referred to over and over again:



			https://ortho.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/COVID-19-in-Youth-Soccer.pdf
		










						Youth Sports COVID Safety Whitepaper - Surf Cup Sports
					

New Study Finds Limited COVID-19 Transmission During Outdoor Youth Sports in San Diego County   Study offers path forward for San Diego County to safely reopen outdoor youth sports       DEL MAR, CA, August 14, 2020 – Today Surf Cup Sports is announcing the results of an eight-week study...




					surfcupsports.com
				




On top of this, our club, which has over 1000 players, has been practicing since 7/13. Not a single issue. That is also the case with all of the surrounding clubs. Kids are simply not getting covid-19 on the field. Finally throw in the fact that states that are open are not exhibiting any issues here either. 

If the BBQ'ers have similar studies, which they don't, then they should be making the same arguments without a doubt. That comparison is just silly, though. 

I actually have a much bigger problem with kids going back to in-classroom instruction.  I'd rather see us optimize for outdoor activities for all kids so they can be physical and socialize.  I don't even care if it's soccer.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> I actually have a much bigger problem with kids going back to in-classroom instruction.  I'd rather see us optimize for outdoor activities for all kids so they can be physical and socialize.  I don't even care if it's soccer.


I have long said that school should be outside for most boys and some girls.  It would be cool if we offered up more choices like, "The Great Outdoors Learning Center."  Or, "Be your own boss:  How to become self sufficient and not rely on others."  "The Arts and just the Arts" Or my favortite "Go Pro and reach the Stars."  Or, "Stay home and read and find all the cures."  Choices is the key and some palces want all the kids to learn what they think is right and true.  No, choice is the key to life and kindness to others.  Duke it out when needed and then pick the loser up and go buy him a drink.  Cant be champ all the time.


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Fixed that for you.


What did I get wrong?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Racist.


Didn’t Ca used to be Mejico?


----------



## Keepermom2 (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Social distancing requires a concerted effort. It does not mean social distancing except when I don’t want to. For every idiot soccer parent who thinks the risk that someone will die because of their specific interaction is low, there are tens of thousands of other idiots who think the risk is low if they go to the park, the restaurant, the bar, work, music class, the museum, school, bbq at their friends’ house, etc. And you know what, they’re all right. But they’re still all idiots because more social interactions means more dead people.
> 
> Effective social distancing cannot be a la carte.  Yes, there are activities that must continue at the expense of some lives. Youth soccer is not one of them in my opinion, or that of the governor of the one state that has managed to save the most lives through social distancing requirements.  If you think it is, that’s your opinion.  And if that’s your opinion, how many people need to die before you decide that you were wrong?


Example of Cognitive dissonance instead of opinions based upon facts and I have been shocked with your responses since I don't see that as typical for you.

You make sweeping statements with absolutely no factual basis.  You are similar to certain other people on this board though they are arguing the other side of the argument.

As of today there are 4,334 (2,133 in Anaheim and Santa Ana) confirmed COVID cases of kids between the ages of 4 and 18 of the 56,070 total confirmed cases yet kids are spreading the virus and killing people?  Really?

Arizona is now the same risk as California even though they keep playing that killer game of soccer.  

If you look at our hot spots for infection rates along with a high rate of our reported deaths (approximately 50% in OC) and our rapid significant declines in our those hot spots, you will find they are areas with a significant population below the poverty line and a focused effort to bring those infection and deaths rates down. America (that is her name) played a huge role with that in OC prior to the Governor doing it in other areas of the State which is why OC came down before other similar areas did after the Governor targeted those areas.  

Targeting strategies is what is recommended by the experts not ending all social interactions.  Restrictions on visitations with residents in senior care facilities have been allowed because with proper protocols, the risk is diminished.

Extreme of anything is not good!


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Actually The Atlantic was reporting that despite the fear of many, younger people are not big spreaders of covid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's an opinion piece by Emily Oster, who has made a career as a contrarian, including such ideas as it is ok to drink during pregnancy.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 13, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> THIS!!! 100%


The Covid infection rate is expected to rise in the fall and winter and with flu season coming this whole thing may get worse before it gets better. Cold and 
Flu symptoms will be just another excuse/reason to delay. Any symptoms will require 14 day quarantine right or wrong.
It’s gonna suck.


----------



## Desert Hound (Oct 13, 2020)

espola said:


> That's an opinion piece by Emily Oster, who has made a career as a contrarian, including such ideas as it is ok to drink during pregnancy.


Actually she is providing data and linking to it. 

That said, the European experience has been the same. In many countries schools have been open for months and they also report not seeing young people as being major spreaders.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> The studies that have been referred to over and over again:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Anyone referring to a Surf Cup study supporting why it’s safe to spend money on Surf Cup is desperate and knows why their “study” is bullshit. Seriously, your “study” is embarrassing.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Yes. Save the ad hominems for the racist bottom feeding douchebags who troll the deep recesses of these waters.


You mean you and your under the bridge neighbors?


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

espola said:


> That's an opinion piece by Emily Oster, who has made a career as a contrarian, including such ideas as it is ok to drink during pregnancy.


She is also an economist whose “analysis” is based on unspecified “data” by people she’s “working with” and anecdotal “evidence” by people in two states that badly want to believe it’s all a big hoax. No scientific method used for the studies, no data support other than taking her at her word, nothing but “believe me I’m an economist so I know how covid spreads”.  Such crap. 

That said, the Atlantic has put out some decent articles in recent weeks if you know what I’m talking about. Happy to link them in off topic.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> You mean you and your under the bridge neighbors?


Correct. I have said many times that I’m perfectly happy rolling around in the muck with them. Killing nazis can be a dirty business.


----------



## espola (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> She is also an economist whose “analysis” is based on unspecified “data” by people she’s “working with” and anecdotal “evidence” by people in two states that badly want to believe it’s all a big hoax. No scientific method used for the studies, no data support other than taking her at her word, nothing but “believe me I’m an economist so I know how covid spreads”.  Such crap.
> 
> That said, the Atlantic has put out some decent articles in recent weeks if you know what I’m talking about. Happy to link them in off topic.


She appears to have been The Atlantic's "on the other hand" contributor for some time.


----------



## watfly (Oct 13, 2020)

‘Everything Is Closed Down.’ The Lack of Youth Sports Is a Crisis. (Published 2020)
					

Despite a glut of sports on TV, the lack of youth leagues and teams in the pandemic could cost us for years to come.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## soccersc (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> The predictions about hundreds of thousands was very accurate. What was your prediction about how many people would die? How many more dead people is an acceptable risk so you can live vicariously through your kid?





EOTL said:


> What data is irrefutable?  Where is your “data” to support your proposition that “I feel pretty confident  it has nothing to do with restricting youth sports...”?
> 
> The problem with this line of thinking is that it tries to parse out youth soccer when social distancing cannot be a la carte. At the same time you are posting this, there’s some idiot posting the exact same words in his bbq forum, except substituting “grilling some ribs” with “youth soccer.” And someone at an AA forum substituting “in person  recovery meeting”.  And his former bartender posting the same except “mixing margaritas” instead of “youth soccer”. There are millions of people complaining that the thing that is important to them is the thing for which an exception should be made. Youth soccer is apparently a big deal for you, but objectively it is a ridiculously stupid and inconsequential activity under current circumstances.





EOTL said:


> Social distancing requires a concerted effort. It does not mean social distancing except when I don’t want to. For every idiot soccer parent who thinks the risk that someone will die because of their specific interaction is low, there are tens of thousands of other idiots who think the risk is low if they go to the park, the restaurant, the bar, work, music class, the museum, school, bbq at their friends’ house, etc. And you know what, they’re all right. But they’re still all idiots because more social interactions means more dead people.
> 
> Effective social distancing cannot be a la carte.  Yes, there are activities that must continue at the expense of some lives. Youth soccer is not one of them in my opinion, or that of the governor of the one state that has managed to save the most lives through social distancing requirements.  If you think it is, that’s your opinion.  And if that’s your opinion, how many people need to die before you decide that you were wrong?


It’s kind of sad really, you are just one of the sheep. The thing with sheep is they don’t know they are being herded, they just follow along.  You can literally walk them right off the cliff and if everyone else is doing it, they will follow right along.

You are always so quick to bring up the death toll but have no other support for any of your claims. How do you know that doing it any other way would have produced any other outcome? You don’t. There are studies that go back to a 2006 pandemic when doctors tried to explain that isolation and lockdowns are a bad idea. And now WHO and other doctors are beginning to realize what some tried to tell them 15 years ago.






						DocumentCloud
					






					www.documentcloud.org
				




Please stop being part of the problem and look critically at what others tell you, stop being a sheep and think for yourself. There is plenty of research coming out suggesting your thought of mitigating the virus is actually WRONG. But I’m sure you are as smart as the Doctors that are also suggesting these ideas, there’s always 2 sides to a coin!









						The 2006 Origins of the Lockdown Idea
					

So far as anyone can tell, the intellectual machinery that made this mess was invented 14 years ago, and not by epidemiologists but by computer-simulation modelers. It was adopted not by experienced doctors – they warned ferociously against it – but by politicians.




					www.aier.org
				






			Bloomberg - Are you a robot?


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

watfly said:


> ‘Everything Is Closed Down.’ The Lack of Youth Sports Is a Crisis. (Published 2020)
> 
> 
> Despite a glut of sports on TV, the lack of youth leagues and teams in the pandemic could cost us for years to come.
> ...


Yes, we will be making up for lost time with literally every single activity in the world that requires close contact. If only people had worn their masks and socially distanced like they should have done.... Of course, if Americans weren’t such self-pitying p**sies, however, we could end up having the greatest generation in world history for runners, swimmers, tennis players, rowers, skate boarders and many other athletes.


----------



## happy9 (Oct 13, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I did.
> 
> Here is the chart where the 70% # comes from FYI.
> 
> ...


The red arrows have come out - pay attention.


----------



## happy9 (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> That said, the *Atlantic* has put out some decent articles in recent weeks if you know what I’m talking about. Happy to link them in off topic.


They are by far the brightest and shiniest example of responsible, factual, hard hitting, and honest journalism. They do not leave any stone unturned in their effort to provide the sheep the unvarnished truth.  It's uncanny.


----------



## Footy30 (Oct 13, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> The Covid infection rate is expected to rise in the fall and winter and with flu season coming this whole thing may get worse before it gets better. Cold and
> Flu symptoms will be just another excuse/reason to delay. Any symptoms will require 14 day quarantine right or wrong.
> It’s gonna suck.


Dammit... you may be right


----------



## Spfister (Oct 13, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> You’ll know you’ve got him when:
> 
> 1) he starts hurling the “you’re ok with killing over 200k people”
> 2) starts to insult you
> 3) tries to change the argument


Don’t forget the “if you send your kids to school you are murdering them and teachers”


----------



## Glitterhater (Oct 13, 2020)

Ronaldo had COVID. That's it, season is done. (Kidding on the season being done.)


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 13, 2020)

Th


Spfister said:


> Don’t forget the “if you send your kids to school you are murdering them and teachers”


That qualifies under #1.


----------



## N00B (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> if Americans weren’t such self-pitying p**sies, however, we could end up having the greatest generation in world history


Americans weren’t ‘p**sies’ and I hope they aren’t that sexiest pejorative you choose to use (sexist).

We had the ‘greatest generation’ and they fought for the freedoms that are being discussed here.


----------



## NorCalDad (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Anyone referring to a Surf Cup study supporting why it’s safe to spend money on Surf Cup is desperate and knows why their “study” is bullshit. Seriously, your “study” is embarrassing.


So you don't think the data they collected is valid? Why not? 

Let me turn this around a bit. Do you think we should re-open anything? If so what? If not, when do you think we should? I'm curious how you would approach re-opening anything. Or do you think we need to wait for a vaccine before we do anything?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 13, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> Dammit... you may be right


Not an easy situation, had a sore throat the other day and within minutes looking to get tested.
Cra Cra


----------



## Glitterhater (Oct 13, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Not an easy situation, had a sore throat the other day and within minutes looking to get tested.
> Cra Cra


This is what is scary. People may "just" have a cold but the symptoms are so close it's going to cause panic. I am nervous to report any nasal symptoms to my doctor right now!


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 13, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> This is what is scary. People may "just" have a cold but the symptoms are so close it's going to cause panic. I am nervous to report any nasal symptoms to my doctor right now!


Those with real allergies are in for a horrible time....


----------



## Desert Hound (Oct 13, 2020)

NorCalDad said:


> So you don't think the data they collected is valid? Why not?
> 
> Let me turn this around a bit. Do you think we should re-open anything? If so what? If not, when do you think we should? I'm curious how you would approach re-opening anything. Or do you think we need to wait for a vaccine before we do anything?


He can't answer that question.


----------



## Chelsea dad g09 (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Nope, not sitting down.
> 
> How many people are dying because people under 19 are spreading it? We all know it’s uncommon for them to kill each other, but how many other people are they killing? How many are they infecting when they carpool to their sports? When they check into hotel rooms? When they eat out?  When they go home? And while I’m asking, how many people need to die overall before you will be willing to admit that you were wrong?
> 
> Of course, the answer is that you don’t care how many people die in order for your kid to play their little kiddie sport. Her coach? Fine. School teacher? Whatevs. Her teammate’s parent? Sure, they never signed up for snacks anyway. It’s the American way to not give a s**t about anyone other than yourself which, of course, is exactly why you’re still in this predicament.


Not sure it's that people dont give a s*** but that your health is not my responsibility.  If someone doesnt feel safe, is at higher risk or has high risk at home, then the burden is on that family to keep themselves safe. For me this is not about soccer, my daughters education is paramount and virtual learning is not anywhere close to being ok. Let me flip this on you, how many additional suicides because of this lockdown are you ok with?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 13, 2020)

N00B said:


> Americans weren’t ‘p**sies’ and I hope they aren’t that sexiest pejorative you choose to use (sexist).
> 
> We had the ‘greatest generation’ and they fought for the freedoms that are being discussed here.


Had.
Freedoms could all be gone soon.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 13, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> This is what is scary. People may "just" have a cold but the symptoms are so close it's going to cause panic. I am nervous to report any nasal symptoms to my doctor right now!


Maybe we should have just sucked it up early on and let the chips fall where may.


----------



## N00B (Oct 13, 2020)

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> Not sure it's that people dont give a s*** but that your health is not my responsibility.  If someone doesnt feel safe, is at higher risk or has high risk at home, then the burden is on that family to keep themselves safe. For me this is not about soccer, my daughters education is paramount and virtual learning is not anywhere close to being ok. Let me flip this on you, how many additional suicides because of this lockdown are you ok with?


Sounds like EOTL’s comment that personal freedom requires personal responsibility.  Curious how he will argue with you.

... wait, that contacts his/her argument about lockdowns and mandates.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> Not sure it's that people dont give a s*** but that your health is not my responsibility.  If someone doesnt feel safe, is at higher risk or has high risk at home, then the burden is on that family to keep themselves safe. For me this is not about soccer, my daughters education is paramount and virtual learning is not anywhere close to being ok. Let me flip this on you, how many additional suicides because of this lockdown are you ok with?


Your daughter’s soccer career is not my responsibility. Thank god we have a governor who is keeping people alive.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 13, 2020)

N00B said:


> Sounds like EOTL’s comment that personal freedom requires personal responsibility.  Curious how he will argue with you.
> 
> ... wait, that contacts his/her argument about lockdowns and mandates.


I should also add that your “f**k other people, I don’t give a s**t about anyone else’s health or welfare” is the exact reason your kid can’t play soccer or go to school right now. It is the American Way. You are getting exactly what you deserve.


----------



## N00B (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Your daughter’s soccer career is not my responsibility. Thank god we have a governor who is keeping people alive.


You’re right.

Your child’s safety is your responsibility... as is his/hers.


----------



## N00B (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I should also add that your “f**k other people, I don’t give a s**t about anyone else’s health or welfare” is the exact reason your kid can’t play soccer or go to school right now. It is the American Way. You are getting exactly what you deserve.


Really?! We go straight to unfounded personal attacks.  I certainly don’t hope you parent as you preach here.


----------



## crush (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I should also add that your “f**k other people, I don’t give a s**t about anyone else’s health or welfare” is the *exact reason your kid can’t play soccer* or *go to school right now*.* It is the American Way*. You are getting exactly what you deserve.


No, it's the California Way


----------



## Chelsea dad g09 (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Your daughter’s soccer career is not my responsibility. Thank god we have a governor who is keeping people alive.


You're right, its hers and hers alone...but she doesnt have that choice now does she? Glad to see you can distinguish between individual responsibilities but I'll write it again because your reading skills obviously aren't up to par, for me this isnt about soccer.


----------



## Chelsea dad g09 (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I should also add that your “f**k other people, I don’t give a s**t about anyone else’s health or welfare” is the exact reason your kid can’t play soccer or go to school right now. It is the American Way. You are getting exactly what you deserve.


Sounds like someone is cracking from the pressure of being on lockdown for some time...you forgot to answer how many kids are you ok with committing suicide because of the lockdown you're struggling to deal with.


----------



## eric (Oct 13, 2020)

I think this governor is pretty incompetent. We went to the Arsenal challenge in AZ. it was well organized and there were so many California  teams. People actually followed the rules and kept distance. While in CA, people organize their own games and no rules are followed.  Does California have a better control of Covid than AZ? No.


----------



## happy9 (Oct 13, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Your daughter’s soccer career is not my responsibility. Thank god we have a governor who is keeping people alive.


He's certainly a gem.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 13, 2020)

eric said:


> I think this governor is pretty incompetent. We went to the Arsenal challenge in AZ. it was well organized and there were so many California  teams. People actually followed the rules and kept distance. While in CA, people organize their own games and no rules are followed.  Does California have a better control of Covid than AZ? No.


Actually, yes, CA has done better.  AZ has about 792 covid deaths per million population. CA has about 422.  AZ has done about twice as poorly as CA.

In all, AZ has a pretty awful record on covid.  Most of the damage was done in June and July- but it still counts.  If you died in July, you’re still dead now.

Don’t read this as support for closing outdoor youth activities in CA.  But you need a better argument than “look how well AZ did.”.   AZ seriously screwed the pooch with their initial opening in May.


----------



## Anon9 (Oct 13, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Actually, yes, CA has done better.  AZ has about 792 covid deaths per million population. CA has about 422.  AZ has done about twice as poorly as CA.
> 
> In all, AZ has a pretty awful record on covid.  Most of the damage was done in June and July- but it still counts.  If you died in July, you’re still dead now.
> 
> Don’t read this as support for closing outdoor youth activities in CA.  But you need a better argument than “look how well AZ did.”.   AZ seriously screwed the pooch with their initial opening in May.


One genius once said New York handled covid the right way. So what’s wrong with saying Arizona is handling it well?


----------



## soccer4us (Oct 13, 2020)

Will very democratic states like WA and OR opening up their youth sports help CA do it soon? I feel like we do many things those states do. I like WA system where what exactly you can do is based on numbers in your county. Games are allowed if you hit certain numbers which are realistic unlike much of the tiered system CA currently has. OR I believe games will happen next month with contact training allowed now. One can only hope!


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 13, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Actually, yes, CA has done better.  AZ has about 792 covid deaths per million population. CA has about 422.  AZ has done about twice as poorly as CA.
> 
> In all, AZ has a pretty awful record on covid.  Most of the damage was done in June and July- but it still counts.  If you died in July, you’re still dead now.
> 
> Don’t read this as support for closing outdoor youth activities in CA.  But you need a better argument than “look how well AZ did.”.   AZ seriously screwed the pooch with their initial opening in May.


For context though IIRC California is 25th or 26th worst state so right at the middle.  Arizona IIRC is 9th (and also way behind the northeastern states by more than a factor of 2.  

Do you know what the stats look like if you compare southern California alone to Arizona?  Does that make any difference given the relatively mild outbreak to date in the northern part of the state?

From looking at those numbers, my guess is that the number probably correlate most strongly to: a) the % of the population its gone through (states with higher seroprevalence are higher on the chart, those with lower on the lower end of the chart) and b) when (the earlier the outbreak, the worse the state does).


----------



## crush (Oct 14, 2020)

*Welcome to Whacky Wednesday 10.14.20*

As Disney goes, so goes soccer and happiness in Socal.  We need Mickey to help us all out.  No sports, no real school and no Disneyland or Knotts or Magic Mountain or anything that helps kids.  Fighting hard as ever to keep some kids from being born.  Wow, Holy Toledo Batman!!!!

From the OC Register
Visits to Florida and Southern California theme parks will help a team from Gov. Gavin Newsom’s administration *develop long-awaited COVID-19 health and safety guidelines* that will allow the state’s major tourist destinations to reopen after seven months of coronavirus closures.

“I know a number of people are continuing to wonder ((you think?)) when that guidance is coming out and I like to say, ‘It will come out when we’re ready,’” ((figures)) California Health and Human Services Secretary Mark Ghaly said.  

*"Soccer will start up when one decides it will and no sooner, so shut the f up, wear your dam mask, stop complaining, obey, 6 x 6, stay scared, stay home, stay away from your favorite restaurant and stay off the dam fields." *


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 14, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I should also add that your “f**k other people, I don’t give a s**t about anyone else’s health or welfare” is the exact reason your kid can’t play soccer or go to school right now. It is the American Way. You are getting exactly what you deserve.


Wrong....we live in California, that’s the only reason.
Funny how you say “your kid can’t play...” cause you don’t have any kids that still play. Which is one of several reasons you come on here with your holier than thou attitude.  Truth is, your likely a socially inept person who gets off on the quarantine cause you don’t have to interact with scary people. So you come here and puff up your chest with screen names where your safe.

Your POV reeks of entitlement.


----------



## crush (Oct 14, 2020)




----------



## socalkdg (Oct 14, 2020)

crush said:


> “I know a number of people are continuing to wonder ((you think?)) when that guidance is coming out and I like to say, ‘It will come out when we’re ready,’” ((figures)) California Health and Human Services Secretary Mark Ghaly said.


Sounds like this is the guy keeping kids from playing.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 14, 2020)

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> You're right, its hers and hers alone...but she doesnt have that choice now does she? Glad to see you can distinguish between individual responsibilities but I'll write it again because your reading skills obviously aren't up to par, for me this isnt about soccer.


Well what is it about smart guy?  Education?  GTFOH...learning and becoming a well rounded person consist of more than the 3R’s. Lot’s of opportunities for non-traditional education now.  Man go back to your cubicle and summarize those depositions please.

How does showing a kid mommy and daddy will make everything help with the educational process pal?  You need to leave room for the possibility that the education all of our kids are getting now is to learn how to deal with adversity.


----------



## crush (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Well what is it about smart guy?  Education?  GTFOH...learning and becoming a well rounded person consist of more than the 3R’s. Lot’s of opportunities for non-traditional education now.  Man go back to your cubicle and summarize those depositions please.
> 
> How does showing a kid mommy and daddy will make everything help with the educational process pal?  You need to leave room for the possibility that the education all of our kids are getting now is to learn how to deal with* adversity.*


Yes, and how cheaters cheat and those with power can control our lives.  This is great for all of us to learn from.  6-3 or 5-4 is my hope and then I will get what I want.  My dd wants to play soccer and I want something way bigger dre.  It's big time and will save millions of lives.  Come on now, lets help all the kids bro


----------



## MacDre (Oct 14, 2020)

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> Sounds like someone is cracking from the pressure of being on lockdown for some time...you forgot to answer how many kids are you ok with committing suicide because of the lockdown you're struggling to deal with.


I’m not okay with any.  Can you prove any suicides directly related to COVID lockdowns?  I’m not talking about a case where the lockdown was one of several factors that drove someone to commit suicide either.  Give me some examples where lockdowns have been the primary factor in suicide.


----------



## Maskless (Oct 14, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I should also add that your “f**k other people, I don’t give a s**t about anyone else’s health or welfare” is the exact reason your kid can’t play soccer or go to school right now. It is the American Way. You are getting exactly what you deserve.


Get a grip.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Well what is it about smart guy?  Education?  GTFOH...learning and becoming a well rounded person consist of more than the 3R’s. Lot’s of opportunities for non-traditional education now.  Man go back to your cubicle and summarize those depositions please.
> 
> How does showing a kid mommy and daddy will make everything help with the educational process pal?  You need to leave room for the possibility that the education all of our kids are getting now is to learn how to deal with adversity.


3Rs were more of a home thing for us, even before covid.

School and sports are where they learn about people.  That one is harder to replace.


----------



## MSK357 (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Well what is it about smart guy?  Education?  GTFOH...learning and becoming a well rounded person consist of more than the 3R’s. Lot’s of opportunities for non-traditional education now.  Man go back to your cubicle and summarize those depositions please.
> 
> How does showing a kid mommy and daddy will make everything help with the educational process pal?  You need to leave room for the possibility that the education all of our kids are getting now is to learn how to deal with adversity.


What educational opportunities are you talking about?  I feel this "pandemic" is really widening the gap between classes and people mainly due to teachers unions and their money influencing a particular political party.  I feel bad for lower income families that may not have computers, quality internet connection, and both parents working long hours (if both parents are still in the household).


----------



## crush (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I’m not okay with any.  *Can you prove any suicides directly related to COVID lockdowns?*  I’m not talking about a case where the lockdown was one of several factors that drove someone to commit suicide either.  Give me some examples where lockdowns have been the primary factor in suicide.


It's just like 94% of the Covid deaths.  Most likely very few killed themselves only because of Covid.  The guy whose 83 and got a stroke and rushed to hospital had covid in his blood and we are all told he died of Covid.  What did he die of?  Suicide is very deep, painful and super sad.  All we know Dre, is more and more are killing themselves.  I would not blame it on Covid, but maybe the fear that comes with it, all the hate and division in our country makes so many feel numb.  I know someone who took pills to feel numb and she took too many.  Not sure she was trying to end it all but she took so much she never woke up.


----------



## Maskless (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I’m not okay with any.  Can you prove any suicides directly related to COVID lockdowns?  I’m not talking about a case where the lockdown was one of several factors that drove someone to commit suicide either.  Give me some examples where lockdowns have been the primary factor in suicide.


Can you provide data about how many COVID+ cases were directly related to youth soccer? And of those cases what percentage contributed to the spread to others? Additionally, and more importantly, how many of those were fatal or caused long term health concerns or impairments. If we're going to be paranoid then let's first understand the need to be paranoid. I'm not a denier, just a realist.


----------



## Mad Hatter (Oct 14, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Actually, yes, CA has done better.  AZ has about 792 covid deaths per million population. CA has about 422.  AZ has done about twice as poorly as CA.
> 
> In all, AZ has a pretty awful record on covid.  Most of the damage was done in June and July- but it still counts.  If you died in July, you’re still dead now.
> 
> Don’t read this as support for closing outdoor youth activities in CA.  But you need a better argument than “look how well AZ did.”.   AZ seriously screwed the pooch with their initial opening in May.


I think it really has to do with other factors. 

Take for instance Utah. 

From what I understand they have been far more lax over the entire covid period vs AZ. But looking at their numbers they have substantially fewer deaths per million vs AZ. 

They have been much more open in comparison to CA as well. And their numbers are dramatically lower vs CA. 

This would seem to imply that it isn't so much gov mandates or policies that determine what the virus does. It would seem more likely that the virus affects people differently based on location, the makeup of the population, etc.


----------



## happy9 (Oct 14, 2020)

soccer4us said:


> Will very democratic states like WA and OR opening up their youth sports help CA do it soon? I feel like we do many things those states do. I like WA system where what exactly you can do is based on numbers in your county. Games are allowed if you hit certain numbers which are realistic unlike much of the tiered system CA currently has. OR I believe games will happen next month with contact training allowed now. One can only hope!


G-money doesn't have to look very hard to find a fine example of a DEEP BLUE state taking care of their youth sports.  NJ kids have been playing sports all summer, even swimming in the same pool (gasp!).


----------



## MacDre (Oct 14, 2020)

dad4 said:


> 3Rs were more of a home thing for us, even before covid.
> 
> School and sports are where they learn about people.  That one is harder to replace.


I agree 100% but that is not the argument he’s making.  I understand his argument as: f*ck soccer...I want my kids back in a brick and mortar school.  I could understand the brick and mortar school argument from the local barber or CalTrans worker.  But, this guy was coming off as a lawyer to me and I’m calling B.S.


----------



## happy9 (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I’m not okay with any.  Can you prove any suicides directly related to COVID lockdowns?  I’m not talking about a case where the lockdown was one of several factors that drove someone to commit suicide either.  Give me some examples where lockdowns have been the primary factor in suicide.


Interesting take and a logical one to follow.  Kinda the same thing as CV19 being part of someone's death certificate.  I mean, if we are going to be specific about cause of death, might as well lay it all out there.


----------



## happy9 (Oct 14, 2020)

Mad Hatter said:


> I think it really has to do with other factors.
> 
> Take for instance Utah.
> 
> ...


Right now numbers mean nothing and are not credible. They are being manipulated, omitted to support agendas on both sides.  Also likely that people just don't know what they are doing.  

AZ quietly reported an oops last week - over 2500 hospitalization cases had been misreported by one healthcare system.  They were in fact admitted into the hospital but never hospitalized. Similar mistakes have occurred over testing and capturing accurate data on death certificates. This is just one healthcare system of several in the state. Investigations ongoing. Makes you wonder what other clerical mistakes have occurred.  More to follow I'm sure.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I agree 100% but that is not the argument he’s making.  I understand his argument as: f*ck soccer...I want my kids back in a brick and mortar school.  I could understand the brick and mortar school argument from the local barber or CalTrans worker.  But, this guy was coming off as a lawyer to me and I’m calling B.S.


I just found the “prove a link between X and Y” discussion to be boring.  It’s a weak argument, and that kind of proof requires a ton of data that no one here has or is qualified to assess.  So I figured it was time to replace it with a better one.


----------



## Copa9 (Oct 14, 2020)

dad4 said:


> It's more than soccer.  We poured sand on the skate parks, put plastic bags over the basketball hoops, padlocked the baseball and softball fields, closed the swimming pools, roped off the playgrounds, and generally shut down every outdoor space where kids might have fun.
> 
> Meanwhile, casinos are open, restaurants are open, bars are opening, theaters are open, churches are open, and airports are open.  All of these indoor activities are higher risk In than the outdoor activities we shut down for the kids.





Kicker4Life said:


> Let me help you....
> 
> View attachment 9248


So the only thing that matters to you is "death" rate  and FOX news is your source of information?  lol


----------



## dad4 (Oct 14, 2020)

Mad Hatter said:


> I think it really has to do with other factors.
> 
> Take for instance Utah.
> 
> ...


We can’t do anything so why even try?


----------



## MacDre (Oct 14, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> What educational opportunities are you talking about?  I feel this "pandemic" is really widening the gap between classes and people mainly due to teachers unions and their money influencing a particular political party.  I feel bad for lower income families that may not have computers, quality internet connection, and both parents working long hours (if both parents are still in the household).


An educational opportunity for kids to explore and try something that they would not have the opportunity to explore if playing club soccer and attending a brick and mortar school.  

I also think many kids nowadays are over indulged and could benefit from a little adversity and learning how to push forward.  Pain is weakness leaving the body...right?

Could you reconcile your position about “Covid” and the teachers union with the recent shut down in Madrid, Spain please?  Specifically, what impact did the teachers union have on the recent shutdown in Madrid?


----------



## MSK357 (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> An educational opportunity for kids to explore and try something that they would not have the opportunity to explore if playing club soccer and attending a brick and mortar school.
> 
> I also think many kids nowadays are over indulged and could benefit from a little adversity and learning how to push forward.  Pain is weakness leaving the body...right?
> 
> Could you reconcile your position about “Covid” and the teachers union with the recent shut down in Madrid, Spain please?  Specifically, what impact did the teachers union have on the recent shutdown in Madrid?


why would i talk about the teachers union in spain? im talking about the teachers unions here in california, where they say its too dangerous for teachers to be in the classroom with students yet the same classrooms are being used for daycare with daycare teachers to help with distance learning for $205 a week per kid.


----------



## crush (Oct 14, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Right now numbers mean nothing and are not credible. They are being manipulated, omitted to support agendas on both sides.  Also likely that people just don't know what they are doing.
> 
> AZ quietly reported an oops last week - over 2500 hospitalization cases had been misreported by one healthcare system.  They were in fact admitted into the hospital but never hospitalized. Similar mistakes have occurred over testing and capturing accurate data on death certificates. This is just one healthcare system of several in the state. Investigations ongoing. Makes you wonder what other clerical mistakes have occurred.  More to follow I'm sure.


Lot's of "mistakes" I hear and were all human and bound to a make mistake or two or three even.  We will need to wait until later to find out what is really going on with all those numbers.  The game of numbers and how folks use numbers to scare the sh*t out of you.  Math my ass!!!!


----------



## MacDre (Oct 14, 2020)

Maskless said:


> Can you provide data about how many COVID+ cases were directly related to youth soccer? And of those cases what percentage contributed to the spread to others? Additionally, and more importantly, how many of those were fatal or caused long term health concerns or impairments. If we're going to be paranoid then let's first understand the need to be paranoid. I'm not a denier, just a realist.


No I can’t.  The reason being is that they are kids and not guinea pigs.  In order to do what’s in the best interest of the kids we have to proceed with caution.  I am actually proud that we don’t have those stats at this juncture.

Now is the time for kids to focus on individual skills.  They can work on their strength, conditioning, technique, and the MENTAL ASPECT of the game now.  When play returns the kids will hit the ground running with way more mental tenacity and be better teammates.


----------



## MSK357 (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> An educational opportunity for kids to explore and try something that they would not have the opportunity to explore if playing club soccer and attending a brick and mortar school.
> 
> I also think many kids nowadays are over indulged and could benefit from a little adversity and learning how to push forward.  Pain is weakness leaving the body...right?
> 
> Could you reconcile your position about “Covid” and the teachers union with the recent shut down in Madrid, Spain please?  Specifically, what impact did the teachers union have on the recent shutdown in Madrid?


Not much opportunity to explore when parents cant afford supervision for their kids while they are at work.  Please tell me how a family where both parents work and who cant afford $205 a week for daycare can provide an additional opportunity to explore without a brick and mortar school that tax dollars already pay for?


----------



## MacDre (Oct 14, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> why would i talk about the teachers union in spain? im talking about the teachers unions here in california, where they say its too dangerous for teachers to be in the classroom with students yet the same classrooms are being used for daycare with daycare teachers to help with distance learning for $205 a week per kid.


$205 a week seems like it would be cost prohibitive for many so I would suspect that the daycare is sparsely attended and not densely populated like a public school.  Not an apple’s to apple’s comparison pal.


----------



## MSK357 (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> $205 a week seems like it would be cost prohibitive for many so I would suspect that the daycare is sparsely attended and not densely populated like a public school.  Not an apple’s to apple’s comparison pal.


hey pal, classrooms dont have to be densely populated either.  Hybrid learning where half the students are occupying the room in the morning and the other half in the afternoon have already been worked out before school even started. instead our state mandated no in person learning while daycare has never stopped.  Now schools are getting paid for daycare utilizing these "empty" classrooms. But dont take my word for it, heres a link:









						L.A. schools are closed — but there are loopholes for those with money
					

K-12 schools in Los Angeles are not allowed to be open at the moment. Yet many schools have reopened anyway, either by outsourcing their facilities to established providers like the Y, or by rebranding as day camps, which are license-exempt and virtually unregulated in California.




					www.latimes.com


----------



## MacDre (Oct 14, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Not much opportunity to explore when parents cant afford supervision for their kids while they are at work.  Please tell me how a family where both parents work and who cant afford $205 a week for daycare can provide an additional opportunity to explore without a brick and mortar school that tax dollars already pay for?


I get it but I don’t.  I come from an era where kids played outside unsupervised.  I got my first kiss playing “house.”  Kids can skate, bike, play tag, jump rope, climb trees, doorbell ditch, hopscotch, go hiking, lemonade stand, volunteer at old folks home etc.

Plenty of low to no cost activities available.


----------



## Copa9 (Oct 14, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Because soccer is known globally as the most beautiful game for a reason.  It's inherently more fun and satisfying participating in team sports than individual sports.
> 
> As a family we have done the biking, skateboarding, RC, swimming, poker (my 6-year-old knows how to play draw poker now thanks to Covid), piano, and countless other things over the past seven months.  But at the end of the day my kids like team sports above all else.
> 
> ...


Your very use of the the phrase "hide in the basement" shows a base disrespect for others decisions. Yes, you should show more respect for others decisions. As a family we personally only know one family friend who has died from covid. It has been devastating for everyone who knew this beautiful women.  By the way she had no underlying condition, was skinny, never smoked,  worked out at a gym when they were open, and walked five miles a day.  She fought 43 days to stay alive. At first her symptoms were very mild then on day 7 or 8 she suddenly got worse and was rushed to the hospital.  She was one of the lucky ones to get Remdesivir. Had a few days where she seemed to improve but started crashing again and was put on a ventilator.  She fought for weeks but lost the battle. No one else in her family had covid. She was only 59!!  Let that sink in. Statistically for her, the death rate wasn't .005% it was 100%. Whatever your position on covid, RESPECT others decision instead of mocking them, you don't know what they have gone through.


----------



## crush (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> No I can’t.  The reason being is that they are kids and not guinea pigs.  In order to do what’s in the best interest of the kids we have to proceed with caution.  I am actually proud that we don’t have those stats at this juncture.
> 
> Now is the time for kids to focus on* individual skills.*  They can work on their strength, conditioning, technique, and the *MENTAL ASPECT* of the game now.  When play returns the kids will hit the ground running with way more mental tenacity and be better teammates.


Another word for Isolation Dre.  This is the big "Mental Aspect" your missing to see and seem to not understand.  If kid has only one parent *((a bastard child and lucky to be alive, but was not well protected before born from some and not really cared for from Elites afterwards because their a little bastard anyways))*, then most likely their all alone all day and then after individual skills training, their all alone again.  Do you know how many kids have only one parent and that parent works in socal?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 14, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> So the only thing that matters to you is "death" rate  and FOX news is your source of information?  lol


Death Rate...yah, pretty much, that and hospitalizations.  Why fret about case rates if it doesn’t correlate?

No....those are CDC’s published numbers (see the footnote in the image), just happen to be a screen grab from Fox News.  I hate most media news outlets.....mainly Fox and CNN are the worst. (Wrong yet again...). It does however answer the question that was asked does it not?


----------



## MSK357 (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I get it but I don’t.  I come from an era where kids played outside unsupervised.  I got my first kiss playing “house.”  Kids can skate, bike, play tag, jump rope, climb trees, doorbell ditch, hopscotch, go hiking, lemonade stand, volunteer at old folks home etc.
> 
> Plenty of low to no cost activities available.


times are not the same bro.  I used to do that do, but most of my day was still at school during the day.  I had adult supervision during the day that tax dollars paid for.  Those tax dollars arent covering what it used to during this pandemic. whether we like it or not, public school is daycare for many working class families.  Now kids are at home alone unsupervised for most of the day.  I doubt you would let your daughter spend most of her day unsupervised outdoors like you did back in the day. especially in rougher neighborhoods.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I get it but I don’t.  I come from an era where kids played outside unsupervised.  I got my first kiss playing “house.”  Kids can skate, bike, play tag, jump rope, climb trees, doorbell ditch, hopscotch, go hiking, lemonade stand, volunteer at old folks home etc.
> 
> Plenty of low to no cost activities available.


I came from a similar generation.  My parents biggest issue was getting me to come home or stay inside.

How many teenagers climb trees, build lemonade stands, etc? Can’t volunteer at old folks homes right now (both my kids are acting Presidents of their youth volunteer groups) due to the restrictions.

Your points are valid, but can not be extrapolated across all age groups.  Teenagers have different interests that are far more socially based.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Oct 14, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I should also add that your “f**k other people, I don’t give a s**t about anyone else’s health or welfare” is the exact reason your kid can’t play soccer or go to school right now. It is the American Way. You are getting exactly what you deserve.


No you shouldn’t.


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I’m not okay with any.  Can you prove any suicides directly related to COVID lockdowns?  I’m not talking about a case where the lockdown was one of several factors that drove someone to commit suicide either.  Give me some examples where lockdowns have been the primary factor in suicide.


Tough to isolate just one factor. Often times mental illness is an underlying factor and the lockdowns just push over the edge.  But it's the same with COVID deaths...someone has a heart condition, catches COVID and now it's a COVID death.

But I do have any anecdote (yeah yeah yeah....anecdote is not data).  My niece.   Happy go lucky girl...very high extrovert....typical teen angst but nothing out of the ordinary before lockdowns. Not one of the A-crew populars, but definitely on the B-crew.  Her parents were really scared of the virus because of her older sister, who is vulnerable.  Kid went into a tail spin with no school and then going from going out with friends every evening to nothing.  She hates her sister so there's no company there, and is at the age where she doesn't like hanging with her parents either.  Attempted suicide by taking her sister's pills over the summer.  The suicide note said she couldn't stand the isolation anymore.  And yes, they had tried to get her help,but like my son, she wasn't a good candidate for zoom therapy, particularly with a therapist she had no in person face to face in the before time.  She lived, got medicated, but the parents recognized it as a cry for help.  Still has issues but was at a sleep over bday party with 10 other girls on the weekend and seems to have at least turned around from her darkest hour.


----------



## N00B (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> $205 a week seems like it would be cost prohibitive for many so I would suspect that the daycare is sparsely attended and not densely populated like a public school.  Not an apple’s to apple’s comparison pal.


Per the California Department of Public Health reopening guidance all youth activities (School and Soccer) are governed by ‘cohort’ groups of no more than 14.  So if the ‘cohort’ groups and facilities are the same it sounds like apples to apples to me.

Also of note, not all Public schools on CA are closed to in person instruction.  Depends on the local school district leadership and teachers.  There were some public school districts that applied for elementary school waivers when that was still a thing, just not the large school districts in SoCal (LA & San Diego).


----------



## MacDre (Oct 14, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> times are not the same bro.  I used to do that do, but most of my day was still at school during the day.  I had adult supervision during the day that tax dollars paid for.  Those tax dollars arent covering what it used to during this pandemic. whether we like it or not, public school is daycare for many working class families.  Now kids are at home alone unsupervised for most of the day.  I doubt you would let your daughter spend most of her day unsupervised outdoors like you did back in the day. especially in rougher neighborhoods.


Valid points.  But is opening up the correct solution?  I think a kid killing their parent is far worse than a couple years as a latchkey kid.


----------



## crush (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I get it but I don’t.  I come from an era where kids played outside unsupervised. * I got my first kiss playing “house.”*  Kids can skate, bike, play tag, jump rope, climb trees, doorbell ditch, hopscotch, go hiking, lemonade stand, volunteer at old folks home etc.
> 
> Plenty of low to no cost activities available.


I never got to play house until I got married.  I got tricked into spin the bottle and truth or dare and had to kiss the sidewalk first and then I had to eat an ant.


----------



## Chelsea dad g09 (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Well what is it about smart guy?  Education?  GTFOH...learning and becoming a well rounded person consist of more than the 3R’s. Lot’s of opportunities for non-traditional education now.  Man go back to your cubicle and summarize those depositions please.
> 
> How does showing a kid mommy and daddy will make everything help with the educational process pal?  You need to leave room for the possibility that the education all of our kids are getting now is to learn how to deal with adversity.


I see your reading skills are about the same as the other guys. Yes, my daughters education is more important for me than her soccer so her being able to go back to full day in person instruction but I dont have a choice in my area. I guess I'm not really understanding your post, are you saying theres a substitute for school? Just wondering if college accepts transcripts from the school of hard knocks?  I get it dogg, you're from the hood, you're hard and whatever but leave that bullshit alone, wont get you anywhere with me.


----------



## Chelsea dad g09 (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I agree 100% but that is not the argument he’s making.  I understand his argument as: f*ck soccer...I want my kids back in a brick and mortar school.  I could understand the brick and mortar school argument from the local barber or CalTrans worker.  But, this guy was coming off as a lawyer to me and I’m calling B.S.


Who's coming off as a lawyer? I do structural concrete repair for all the air conditioned high rises you work in, relax.


----------



## crush (Oct 14, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> times are not the same bro.  I used to do that do, but most of my day was still at school during the day.  I had adult supervision during the day that tax dollars paid for.  Those tax dollars arent covering what it used to during this pandemic. whether we like it or not, public school is daycare for many working class families.  Now kids are at home alone unsupervised for most of the day.  I doubt you would let your daughter spend most of her day unsupervised outdoors like you did back in the day. especially in rougher neighborhoods.


EOTL says it's bad parenting if kid is alone and decides to kill themselves after doing drugs that the neighbor offered him when his mom was at work. These kids shouldnt be born because they only have one parent and mom didnt go to plan parent hood where they "fix" your problems for free or for under $300.  Isolation + hippie lettuce + vape + maybe some LSD and or cocaine and off they go.  When the cat is gone ((single mom at work or single dad at work or grandma at work)) the mice will play.  My teacher friend says his 16 year olds dont even show up for online class.  He has lost 40% of the kids in LA.  Where are they?  What are they doing?  Talk about losing the kids........shameful, truly shameful and super selfish and will be dealt with.


----------



## MSK357 (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Valid points.  But is opening up the correct solution?  I think a kid killing their parent is far worse than a couple years as a latchkey kid.


I think ive made it pretty clear, I am about school choice.  Healthy parents with healthy kids should have the choice of having their kids in school.  like i said before, many school districts have hybrid, DL, and online learning plans already in place.  lift the mandate and let people choose. those that need to be more careful still have the option to keep their distance.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 14, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> I came from a similar generation.  My parents biggest issue was getting me to come home or stay inside.
> 
> How many teenagers climb trees, build lemonade stands, etc? Can’t volunteer at old folks homes right now (both my kids are acting Presidents of their youth volunteer groups) due to the restrictions.
> 
> Your points are valid, but can not be extrapolated across all age groups.  Teenagers have different interests that are far more socially based.


I was in Palo Alto a few nights ago and I crossed EL Camino Real and I instantly had a flashback to when I was 15 before I got my L’s.  What about cruising @kicker?  Maybe it’s time to bring cruising back for the teens!


----------



## Mad Hatter (Oct 14, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I just found the “prove a link between X and Y” discussion to be boring.  It’s a weak argument, and that kind of proof requires a ton of data that no one here has or is qualified to assess.  So I figured it was time to replace it with a better one.





dad4 said:


> We can’t do anything so why even try?


I am left wondering. If proving a link between X and Y is boring. Then why do you do that with respect to AZ? And why do you ignore that with respect to how CA has done vs Utah?


----------



## MacDre (Oct 14, 2020)

crush said:


> I never got to play house until I got married.


F*cking late bloomer!


----------



## MacDre (Oct 14, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> I think ive made it pretty clear, I am about school choice.  Healthy parents with healthy kids should have the choice of having their kids in school.  like i said before, many school districts have hybrid, DL, and online learning plans already in place.  lift the mandate and let people choose. those that need to be more careful still have the option to keep their distance.


Sounds nice but expensive.  How should we pay for all these great “choices” you speak of?


----------



## MSK357 (Oct 14, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Sounds nice but expensive.  How should we pay for all these great “choices” you speak of?


those choices are already in place once the mandate is lifted.  public schools would have started the year with these choices if newsom didnt close schools to in person learning.  Our public school is doing DL or Online learning right now because of the mandate. once schools open up, they will introduce the hybrid as a third option until schools are fully allowed to open.


----------



## full90 (Oct 14, 2020)

this is the third week in a row that I’ve heard Oceanside is hosting scrimmages. Anyone’s club or team participating? What guidelines do they have set up? Fans, masks etc?


----------



## dad4 (Oct 14, 2020)

Mad Hatter said:


> I am left wondering. If proving a link between X and Y is boring. Then why do you do that with respect to AZ? And why do you ignore that with respect to how CA has done vs Utah?


Proving a link between opening restaurants and increased covid cases is hard.  Out of my league, certainly.  Fortunately, CDC and others have done the work on that.  Indoor dining spreads covid.

Proving (or disproving) a link between shutdowns and suicide rates is also hard.  I haven’t seen a report where someone has done the work on that either way.  Same thing goes for outdoor sports and covid.  There is probably enough data to disprove a strong link, but that isn’t saying much.

CA versus Utah?   Are you sure they are similar enough to be a good comparison?  I’d think southern Utah versus northern AZ would be more similar.  Or AZ versus NM.  

That’s what I mean by it being hard.  Proving cause and effect in an epidemic is hard.

What I did was easy.  All I did was look at Arizona’s death rate and say “something went wrong”.  

If you want to know *what* went wrong, that’s a whole ‘nother problem.


----------



## JumboJack (Oct 14, 2020)

Let’s keep ignoring that the freaking WHO says lockdowns are not the answer. Let alone the group of thousands of doctors lead by Stanford and Oxford MD’s saying they are doing irreparable harm.


----------



## Eagle33 (Oct 14, 2020)

full90 said:


> this is the third week in a row that I’ve heard Oceanside is hosting scrimmages. Anyone’s club or team participating? What guidelines do they have set up? Fans, masks etc?


funny part is you can't play outdoors but indoor private facilities have been having full contact soccer going on for a while now.


----------



## watfly (Oct 14, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> funny part is you can't play outdoors but indoor private facilities have been having full contact soccer going on for a while now.


The rumor is they're operating under the gym guidance.


----------



## Keepermom2 (Oct 14, 2020)

Spfister said:


> Don’t forget the “if you send your kids to school you are murdering them and teachers”


and it is funny that he is a proponent of social distancing and masks but apparently they won't work in schools?  I am confused.


Mad Hatter said:


> I think it really has to do with other factors.
> 
> Take for instance Utah.
> 
> ...


Utah is high risk as of today while Arizona is low risk.  Most of Arizona's deaths were prior to the implementation of significant restrictions.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 14, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> and it is funny that he is a proponent of social distancing and masks but apparently they won't work in schools?  I am confused.
> 
> Utah is high risk as of today while Arizona is low risk.  Most of Arizona's deaths were prior to the implementation of significant restrictions.


Any idea how to disentangle the effect of restrictions in AZ versus the effect of having already had a lot of cases?


----------



## Glitterhater (Oct 14, 2020)

I have to hand it to the clubs up here, (as those are the only ones I can speak to,) they are really trying to keep the players engaged while following the rules. And as we know those rules are impossible.

Well- one up here got hand slapped but has been pretty quiet ever since.


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## crush (Oct 14, 2020)

dad4 said:


> *Proving a link between opening restaurants and increased covid cases is hard.  Out of my league, certainly. * Fortunately, CDC and others have done the work on that.  Indoor dining spreads covid.
> 
> Proving (or disproving) a link between shutdowns and suicide rates is also hard.  I haven’t seen a report where someone has done the work on that either way.  Same thing goes for outdoor sports and covid.  There is probably enough data to disprove a strong link, but that isn’t saying much.
> 
> ...


Yes it is daddy o and if you owned a restaurant then you would have something to say and you would be in your league.  Reading what you have to say is entertaining to say the least.  All you say is close them all down.  Tell you what, let's close all the schools ((forever, unless they have patio seating)) and try a new approach?  No job for you or any teachers just like the cook, waitress, hostess, bartender, food seller, marketing rep and so many others who are a SOL.  All the coaches too, sorry, SOL for you too.  You get the point I'm sure.....


----------



## Eagle33 (Oct 14, 2020)

watfly said:


> The rumor is they're operating under the gym guidance.


Not sure what guidance your are referring to. Those Indoor soccer facilities were open way before any gyms were allowed to open.


----------



## Eagle33 (Oct 14, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Proving a link between opening restaurants and increased covid cases is hard.  Out of my league, certainly.  Fortunately, CDC and others have done the work on that.  Indoor dining spreads covid.


Those chefs must be mixing Covid with food


----------



## dad4 (Oct 14, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Those chefs must be mixing Covid with food


Chefs are safe.  The risk is the other guy eating his meal upwind of you.  

If you want to help the restaurant, get takeout.


----------



## watfly (Oct 14, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Not sure what guidance your are referring to. Those Indoor soccer facilities were open way before any gyms were allowed to open.


Many businesses are operating under the premise that "its better to ask for forgiveness than permission".  Given the circumstances, I support that approach if that business is willing to accept the consequences.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 14, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Not sure what guidance your are referring to. Those Indoor soccer facilities were open way before any gyms were allowed to open.


LA County....Indoor 6man Volleyball has started up and games are being played while Beach Volleyball And soccer are still prohibited!


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Oct 14, 2020)

watfly said:


> Many businesses are operating under the premise that "its better to ask for forgiveness than permission".  Given the circumstances, I support that approach if that business is willing to accept the consequences.


Yes that is why we are seeing sports like volleyball, basketball and baseball being played. They aren’t allowed, people are just playing anyway. Our water park up here opened for a while during the summer. It wasn’t allowed, they just decided it would be better for them  to open against the rules and take the $500 a day fine.


----------



## socalkdg (Oct 14, 2020)

dad4 said:


> What I did was easy.  All I did was look at Arizona’s death rate and say “something went wrong”.


something went wrong in AZ in June as they peaked at their death rate in middle of July.   They open everything up the last 3 months and their death rate is now lower per week than California.


----------



## Eagle33 (Oct 14, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> something went wrong in AZ in June as they peaked at their death rate in middle of July.   They open everything up the last 3 months and their death rate is now lower per week than California.


Oh I know, I know! Those Californians brought all the Covid over to AZ when they went to Havasu!


----------



## MacDre (Oct 14, 2020)

watfly said:


> Many businesses are operating under the premise that "its better to ask for forgiveness than permission".  Given the circumstances, I support that approach if that business is willing to accept the consequences.


In this situation it’s not about accepting consequences, to me it’s more being a victim of circumstance.  Damned if you do and damed if you don’t.


----------



## notintheface (Oct 14, 2020)

My drinking game for Socalsoccer threads kicks into high gear.

Take any thread that is 7 pages or longer.

- If it devolves into kids not transmitting the virus, take a drink
- If it includes links to shitty wordpress sites that are suddenly filled with immunologists blog posts, take a drink
- If it rails on teachers while simultaneously begging for schools to reopen, take a shot
- If the word "sheeple" or "sheep" appears without referring to the farm animal, take a sip of Diet Coke, the refresher that everyone loves
- If it complains about the economic impact of not having games in California, the state with a $3.2T GDP, take a sip of an expensive tequila
- If it involves an argument against wearing masks, take a drink and then sigh, shake your head, and reset your clock as to when lockdown will be over
- If it involves a rambling personal story that has absolutely no basis in reality nor is relevant to anything in the thread prior, chug the rest of your drink
- If at any point you pray for the sweet release of death because the same posters are posting the same garbage over and over and over again, take a sip of a nice flavored water, then pour it over your laptop
- If the thread has absolutely no politics in it whatsoever, bust out the champagne, because that will never happen ever again in the lifetime of this godforsaken forum


----------



## Footy30 (Oct 14, 2020)

notintheface said:


> My drinking game for Socalsoccer threads kicks into high gear.
> 
> Take any thread that is 7 pages or longer.
> 
> ...


well, looks like I'll be going to the store to buy Diet Coke, wasted, and in need of a new Macbook but oh well I'll still have my bottles to pop 

dammit I said I was stepping away for this forum.... but this was hilarious


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 14, 2020)

notintheface said:


> My drinking game for Socalsoccer threads kicks into high gear.
> 
> Take any thread that is 7 pages or longer.
> 
> ...


-if it includes a claim that things are too dangerous for kids to play, take a sip of beer
-if there’s a claim you want to kill grandma by playing soccer or reopening schools, take a shot
-if they argue schools should be closed because we got to protect the teachers at the expense of the kids take a shot
-if someone makes unsubstantiated exaggerated claims about masks that they are better than vaccines or will control the outbreak, crack out the aged whiskey and take a shot
-if there’s a fight among goalkeeper moms over what’s really data chug that beer
-If someone claims x y and z country have done it better and if only we had followed that approach kids would all be playing soccer, crack out the tequila with a worm in it and take that shot
-if you see that goalpost being moved again crack open a fine wine and sip away 
-if someone refutes a claim about what’s going on by saying “fauci said” or someone attempts to justify something fauci did, time for the vodka
-someone accuses someone else of racism chug that boiler maker
-someone goes full politics and blames everything on the guy in the White House...well that’s just a sip of beer because that always happens
-someone tried to defend a certain governor or call for his recall...well same. Don’t wanna give folks alcohol poisoning after all
-crush goes off on one of his stories, then take a break, have a smile, enjoy it for what it is and if it’s annoying you maybe you’ve beeN Here too long


----------



## Glitterhater (Oct 14, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> -if it includes a claim that things are too dangerous for kids to play, take a sip of beer
> -if there’s a claim you want to kill grandma by playing soccer or reopening schools, take a shot
> -if they argue schools should be closed because we got to protect the teachers at the expense of the kids take a shot
> -if someone makes unsubstantiated exaggerated claims about masks that they are better than vaccines or will control the outbreak, crack out the aged whiskey and take a shot
> ...


You forgot one!! Crush makes a new screen name.


----------



## EOTL (Oct 14, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Wrong....we live in California, that’s the only reason.
> Funny how you say “your kid can’t play...” cause you don’t have any kids that still play. Which is one of several reasons you come on here with your holier than thou attitude.  Truth is, your likely a socially inept person who gets off on the quarantine cause you don’t have to interact with scary people. So you come here and puff up your chest with screen names where your safe.
> 
> Your POV reeks of entitlement.


Wait, I don’t have kids that still play? 

And if I’m the antisocial one who spends all my time here, why is it that you’re the one who’s got platinum. status?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Oct 14, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Wait, I don’t have kids that still play?
> 
> And if I’m the antisocial one who spends all my time here, why is it that you’re the one who’s got platinum. status?


Prove me wrong.....

$15 well spent.....


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Oct 14, 2020)

notintheface said:


> My drinking game for Socalsoccer threads kicks into high gear.
> 
> Take any thread that is 7 pages or longer.
> 
> ...


Also take a shot if it refers to a goat


----------



## crush (Oct 14, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> You forgot one!! Crush makes a new screen name.


I know I've made promises in the past and not kept them here, just like footy saying he's out of here and then back in 3 hours. That is a record bro.  I promise before all of you I will not change Crush and go back to EJ or Soccerhelper.  That was the past and I'm looking towards the future.  Tomorrow I will share some Throw Back Baby Crush pics.  So cute.  Emma is hanging with Jesus and is taking a break.  So many have left us and so many new peeps in.  I like this new crowd way better.  Memories is all we got!!!


----------



## Keepermom2 (Oct 14, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Any idea how to disentangle the effect of restrictions in AZ versus the effect of having already had a lot of cases?


I presented charts in Bad News Thread that showed when certain restrictions went into place and the impact on the number of cases.


----------



## crush (Oct 15, 2020)

*Throw Back Thursday*​
That's me coming out of my shell.


----------



## crush (Oct 15, 2020)

My first swim.......


----------



## chiefs (Oct 15, 2020)

JumboJack said:


> Let’s keep ignoring that the freaking WHO says lockdowns are not the answer. Let alone the group of thousands of doctors lead by Stanford and Oxford MD’s saying they are doing irreparable harm.





crush said:


> My first swim.......
> 
> View attachment 9271


 Folks it’s time to take that first swim in life again.  Please get out your basement and start to swim again in life.  It’s courage what everyone needs, not fear.


----------



## crush (Oct 15, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Folks it’s time to take that first swim in life again.  Please get out your basement and start to swim again in life.  It’s courage what everyone needs, not fear.


Some have gone back in their shells because of fear.  The average person is scared and I respect fear because fear is real.  I dont make light of other people's fears.  Hiding in your shell is not the answer.  Isolation is the worst thing you can do to people.  Add fear and you go in shell and hide it out until the coast is clear.  Baby turtles are hatched and then they go swim and live their life.


----------



## RuffRef (Oct 15, 2020)

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> I see your reading skills are about the same as the other guys. Yes, my daughters education is more important for me than her soccer so her being able to go back to full day in person instruction but I dont have a choice in my area. I guess I'm not really understanding your post, are you saying theres a substitute for school? Just wondering if college accepts transcripts from the school of hard knocks?  I get it dogg, you're from the hood, you're hard and whatever but leave that bullshit alone, wont get you anywhere with me.


whoa.....talk about stereotypes,,,  who says kids from the hood dont try to goto college?  Ask yourself,, do you spend as much money on personal training for her educational skills, as you do for her soccer.  If you did, your post wouldnt be on this soccer board, but rather the forum that pertains to education.  So when talking of "bullshit" please,,,,try not to sugar-coat yours...


----------



## crush (Oct 15, 2020)

RuffRef said:


> whoa.....talk about stereotypes,,, * who says kids from the hood dont try to goto college?*  Ask yourself,, do you spend as much money on personal training for her educational skills, as you do for her soccer.  If you did, your post wouldnt be on this soccer board, but rather the forum that pertains to education.  So when talking of "bullshit" please,,,,try not to sugar-coat yours...


One of my best friends grew up in South Central and played hoops at Cal Sate Dominquez Hills.  D2 baby.  He went on and got a Phd in History and Eduction. His thesis was all about the 60s.  I had a very interesting chat with him last weekend.  I'm trying to get him to join us and give us his perspective.  Great man whose been married for 24 years and has two wonderful sons.  He is now in charge of all the Principles in a very big school district in Socal.  Let me tell you, this guy is a stud and he went to college and he's from SC.  I know so many others who went on to college.


----------



## MacDre (Oct 15, 2020)

crush said:


> Some have gone back in their shells because of fear.  The average person is scared and I respect fear because fear is real.  I dont make light of other people's fears.  Hiding in your shell is not the answer.  Isolation is the worst thing you can do to people.  Add fear and you go in shell and hide it out until the coast is clear.  Baby turtles are hatched and then they go swim and live their life.


I have 2 definitions of fear... which one are you talking about?

1.False
   Evidence 
   Appearing 
   Real
or

2. Fuck
    Everything 
    And
    Run


----------



## crush (Oct 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I have 2 definitions of fear... which one are you talking about?
> 
> 1.False
> Evidence
> ...


Neither.  Check this out: F.E.A.R

Father Encouraged Another Risky


----------



## dad4 (Oct 15, 2020)

crush said:


> Some have gone back in their shells because of fear.  The average person is scared and I respect fear because fear is real.  I dont make light of other people's fears.  Hiding in your shell is not the answer.  Isolation is the worst thing you can do to people.  Add fear and you go in shell and hide it out until the coast is clear.  Baby turtles are hatched and then they go swim and live their life.


You need a better metaphor.  Do you have any clue what the survival rate of baby sea turtles is?  it’s under 1/1000.

If I ever had to face odds like that, I would crawl back inside my shell, too.


----------



## crush (Oct 15, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You need a better metaphor.  Do you have any clue what the survival rate of baby sea turtles is?  it’s under 1/1000.
> 
> If I ever had to face odds like that, I would crawl back inside my shell, too.


Crush was one of the lucky ones to make it to the ocean alive after birth.  Getting to that dam ocean before a fuc*ing Vulture or a Freking bird or crab eats is the how you win with Sea Turtles life.  Talk about being in the top 1% in your birth class.  Once you make it into that big, blue, beautiful ocean, your next challenge is to stay alive and not get eaten by a Snapper or Shark.  Check this out, viewer discretion is recommended,  Real life guys.









						National Geographic
					

Explore National Geographic. A world leader in geography, cartography and exploration.




					video.nationalgeographic.com


----------



## crush (Oct 15, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You need a better metaphor.  Do you have any clue what the survival rate of baby sea turtles is?  it’s under 1/1000.
> 
> *If I ever had to face odds like that, I would crawl back inside my shell, too.*


Of course you would.  That is obvious.  I would go for the ocean and live free


----------



## Grace T. (Oct 15, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You need a better metaphor.  Do you have any clue what the survival rate of baby sea turtles is?  it’s under 1/1000.
> 
> If I ever had to face odds like that, I would crawl back inside my shell, too.


don’t encourage him to change his screen name again. If he changes it again, this time it’s on you.

ps We all know you’re doing this just to get all of us playing the drinking game really drunk since apparently this one is officially on both the red and blue lists.


----------



## dad4 (Oct 15, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> don’t encourage him to change his screen name again. If he changes it again, this time it’s on you.
> 
> ps We all know you’re doing this just to get all of us playing the drinking game really drunk since apparently this one is officially on both the red and blue lists.


My goat and I would never say things just to make y’all drink.  What are you, a bunch of sheep?

It’s like that time in state cup when we all missed the last 10 minutes of the final so we could stand in line for the kids to get sweatshirts.  Good thing the team was already up by three by that point.  ..........

Cheers!


----------



## crush (Oct 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I have 2 definitions of fear... which one are you talking about?
> 
> 1.False
> Evidence
> ...


My other F.E.A.R

Face Eternity Always Ready


----------



## Chelsea dad g09 (Oct 15, 2020)

RuffRef said:


> whoa.....talk about stereotypes,,,  who says kids from the hood dont try to goto college?  Ask yourself,, do you spend as much money on personal training for her educational skills, as you do for her soccer.  If you did, your post wouldnt be on this soccer board, but rather the forum that pertains to education.  So when talking of "bullshit" please,,,,try not to sugar-coat yours...


No stereotypes whatsoever. I was responding directly to him and the fact he was downplaying attending school. Never said folks from the hood dont go to college so that's an assumption on your part. He is quick to claim where he grew up so asking if colleges took street transcripts instead of high school if in person schooling is not important is fitting.
Her after school care which includes tutoring is more than the privates she goes to and I attend the school board zoom meetings and have written more emails to them than I post on here. I didnt sugar coat anything and the only bullshit here seems to be your assumptions and the lack of reading comprehension that seems to be lacking in this forum.


----------



## Chelsea dad g09 (Oct 15, 2020)

Chelsea dad g09 said:


> No stereotypes whatsoever. I was responding directly to him and the fact he was downplaying attending school. Never said folks from the hood dont go to college so that's an assumption on your part. He is quick to claim where he grew up so asking if colleges took street transcripts instead of high school if in person schooling is not important is fitting.
> Her after school care which includes tutoring is more than the privates she goes to and I attend the school board zoom meetings and have written more emails to them than I post on here. I didnt sugar coat anything and the only bullshit here seems to be your assumptions and the lack of reading comprehension that seems to be lacking in this forum.


after school care with tutoring that she cant atten attend right now *edit*


----------



## crush (Oct 16, 2020)

*TGIF!!!*

We need to love all the children everyone. Karma is trying "woke" people!!!  I was for sure a problem child when i was a child.  "Adopted, what's that?"  "That's weird."  We all need love and John Ritter was the best dad a problem child could be adopted by.  Thanks Mr Healy for all your kindness and patience you showed the little bastard that went through 30 homes.  Poor little guy just needed some love


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Not much opportunity to explore when parents cant afford supervision for their kids while they are at work.  Please tell me how a family where both parents work and who cant afford $205 a week for daycare can provide an additional opportunity to explore without a brick and mortar school that tax dollars already pay for?


I have a couple of examples for you.   My boys were so bored that they recently used their smart phones to learn about stocks.  I helped them open up a $300 account (Mostly their savings) so they can play the stock market.  They made $50 and loved it.  Now they are doing more research to learn how to trade penny stocks (very risky).      My 11 year old daughter was bored and she started to look at videos to learn Italian.  She is learning and I am very proud of her.    We push our kids to learn and use their smartphones/ipads to learn something new. 

One of our parents in our soccer team said that they are going to use this COVID time to come out better from this experience.  It's the right attitude to have for all of us.   Believe me, I hate the fact that youth sports are not allowed.  We just need to motivate ourselves and our kids.


----------



## crush (Oct 16, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I have a couple of examples for you.   My boys were so bored that they recently used their smart phones to learn about stocks.  I helped them open up a $300 account (Mostly their savings) so they can play the stock market.  They made $50 and loved it.  Now they are doing more research to learn how to trade penny stocks (very risky).      My 11 year old daughter was bored and she started to look at videos to learn Italian.  She is learning and I am very proud of her.    We push our kids to learn and use their smartphones/ipads to learn something new.
> 
> One of our parents in our soccer team said that they are going to use this COVID time to come out better from this experience.  It's the right attitude to have for all of us.   Believe me, I hate the fact that youth sports are not allowed.  We just need to motivate ourselves and our kids.


That phone is the devil!!!!!   Hahahahaha......just kidding.  My dd is a true pro.  I have yet to meet someone who can type as fast as her.  I just wish we can get the kids out of our houses without Mr Fear and Mr Snitch poking around.....lol!!!!  My son is making the most of his time.  Picking up groceries for those who can't as a job is cool and he averages over $20 an hour after gas costs.  He did a delivery yesterday in Newport Coast and got a $50 tip   He should be at SDSU with the football team and in his dorm and enjoying the college life that he worked his ass off to attend.  No in person for at least 1 1/2 of his first two years of his dream.  Come on man, you think he dreamed of being with pops for two years after he gave up his high school fun times so he can get 4.3 and 1450 on SAT.  That was hard work and now all he has is online courses, living with his old man still and delivering food to complete strangers.  Oh joy!!!!


----------



## MSK357 (Oct 18, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I have a couple of examples for you.   My boys were so bored that they recently used their smart phones to learn about stocks.  I helped them open up a $300 account (Mostly their savings) so they can play the stock market.  They made $50 and loved it.  Now they are doing more research to learn how to trade penny stocks (very risky).      My 11 year old daughter was bored and she started to look at videos to learn Italian.  She is learning and I am very proud of her.    We push our kids to learn and use their smartphones/ipads to learn something new.
> 
> One of our parents in our soccer team said that they are going to use this COVID time to come out better from this experience.  It's the right attitude to have for all of us.   Believe me, I hate the fact that youth sports are not allowed.  We just need to motivate ourselves and our kids.


Its not the kids whose parents can afford club soccer that I'm worried about. I'm sure they have access to computers, internet, hell even 2 parents to help them through this. Its the ones left home alone, the ones that can't afford the daycare to look after them, the ones that have to go to a library or Starbucks for internet access. The ones where going to public school meant daycare/adult supervision/computers/internet/breakfast and lunch. Kids that depend on those things from public school are having a hard time right now.


----------



## crush (Oct 18, 2020)

*Super Sorry Sunday*​
I first want to say super sorry to all the kids.  It doesnt matter if you have two parents, one parent or no parents and you are in foster care.  The kids need to be at the top.  I told my kids sorry yesterday for how messed up the adults are.  For the record, I said sorry for my short comings as well.  I'm also super sorry to all my friends.  I tend to think I'm right and I talk 90% of the time and with strong emotions.  My best friend Bruno is a great listener and he let me have it yesterday.  Called me out and helped me calm down.  Were 100% opposite but man, we love each other so much and can challenge each other in great times of challenge.  Lastly, I'm super sorry to all of you.  Have a great Sunday everyone and say sorry when you can.  If you get caught telling a lie, cough it up and say sorry.  If your speeding and CHP pulls you over, say sorry and hope for the best.


----------



## jimlewis (Oct 18, 2020)

crush said:


> *Super Sorry Sunday*​
> I first want to say super sorry to all the kids.  It doesnt matter if you have two parents, one parent or no parents and you are in foster care.  The kids need to be at the top.  I told my kids sorry yesterday for how messed up the adults are.  For the record, I said sorry for my short comings as well.  I'm also super sorry to all my friends.  I tend to think I'm right and I talk 90% of the time and with strong emotions.  My best friend Bruno is a great listener and he let me have it yesterday.  Called me out and helped me calm down.  Were 100% opposite but man, we love each other so much and can challenge each other in great times of challenge.  Lastly, I'm super sorry to all of you.  Have a great Sunday everyone and say sorry when you can.  If you get caught telling a lie, cough it up and say sorry.  If your speeding and CHP pulls you over, say sorry and hope for the best.


please take your meds ASAP


----------



## crush (Oct 18, 2020)

jimlewis said:


> please take your meds ASAP


I found my meds Jim and feel very calm today and at peace with myself.  Talk about being stuck here for a long time, yikes!!!  This is a great song btw. Peace to all and again, super sorry and I have moved on.  Its's all yours folks, meaning I will stfu 90% of the time and let others talk it up on da forum. In fact, I have nothing else to say until November 4th.  Hap at it and let it rip folks.  I will just lurk.  Super sorry again and please, please find that mercy in you


----------



## 46n2 (Oct 18, 2020)

Crush , you spam the boards with your nonsense. Honestly you have made these boards unenjoyable again with your rambling nonsense...

Personally your post are mindless and lack any value or input here.  Take a break and stop holding these boards hijack.

Spend time with your family , you care more about your stupid persona and screen names then you do your own family.

How many post a day do you do each and every day and how frequent...too much we all say!!

You are the biggest kook in the lineup.  stay out of the soccer section and take your mindless babble to the off topic section .

Please Please Please take a extended vacation so we can talk real soccer here


----------



## Eagle33 (Oct 19, 2020)

46n2 said:


> Crush , you spam the boards with your nonsense. Honestly you have made these boards unenjoyable again with your rambling nonsense...
> 
> Personally your post are mindless and lack any value or input here.  Take a break and stop holding these boards hijack.
> 
> ...


Sorry, Karen, but I like Crush.
If you don't like someone, ignore future works just fine.


----------



## crush (Oct 19, 2020)

46n2 said:


> Crush , you spam the boards with your nonsense. Honestly you have made these boards unenjoyable again with your rambling nonsense...
> 
> Personally your post are mindless and lack any value or input here.  Take a break and stop holding these boards hijack.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the kind words and advice Team Manager.  I never sit in a line up btw, I have my own secret spot.....you think I sit in a line up......hahahahahaha!!!!!!  I spend every single day with the fearsome foursome.  We love each other so much.  I love soccer and i will always share soccer and other soccer related things.  Espy ignores me and you can do the same.  Have a great Monday and super sorry if you feel I hijacked the socal forum.  Hahahahaha, baaaaaaahhhhaaaaaaa.  You give me way too much credit.  I just talk too much and I will take it down 90%.  Yo, when we playing soccer in socal so we can talk soccer?


----------



## crush (Oct 19, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Sorry, Karen, but I like Crush.
> If you don't like someone, ignore future works just fine.


Thanks brah!!!


----------



## 46n2 (Oct 19, 2020)

hilarious , did you get to fifty posts yet today barney!  
You're HPD must be kicking in.


----------



## crush (Oct 19, 2020)

46n2 said:


> hilarious , did you get to fifty posts yet today barney!
> You're HPD must be kicking in.


Your such the name caller Team Manager.  You sound like that Canyon dude calling me Uncle Rico last year.  In the last two days or so you called me Kook & Barney. Plus, let's not forget the classic Dame fool, crazy dad on meds or off his meds, ignored by all and now diagnosed with HPD by 46? 
What HPD means?
Histrionic personality disorder (*HPD*) is part of a larger group of psychological disorders, called “Cluster B” personality disorders. Disorders in this category are generally categorized as being dramatic, emotional, or erratic. People with *HPD* have a distorted mental image of themselves. 
Are you serious?  I'm the hijacker?  Listen Team Manager 46 n 2 and probably investor in all this BS.   PAY PER PLAY is soon to be over pal!!!


----------



## Glitterhater (Oct 19, 2020)

Anyone have any ideas on what new guidelines the Governor is putting out tomorrow? I'm curious if anyone has any hunches.


----------



## crush (Oct 19, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Anyone have any ideas on what new guidelines the Governor is putting out tomorrow? I'm curious if anyone has any hunches.


I got this 46n2 avatar calling me names for posting all the time on here.  I have so many hunches by I don;t want to be accused of being a hijacker of all the threads.  I will lay low and not hop on this wave like posers do.


----------



## JumboJack (Oct 19, 2020)

So California Travel Fastpitch Softball (Friendlies, Tournaments & Tryouts) | Facebook
					

This is a group for posting information about FRIENDLIES, TOURNAMENTS, and TRYOUTS that are predominantly located in SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.  Tournament posts for Utah, Nevada, and Arizona are also...




					www.facebook.com


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## lafalafa (Oct 19, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Anyone have any ideas on what new guidelines the Governor is putting out tomorrow? I'm curious if anyone has any hunches.


Theme parks, professional sports, entertainment live attendance tier guidance is coming out.

Youth sports update in progress but likely later with referenced nov'ish timelines so far from what I've seen.


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## Glitterhater (Oct 19, 2020)

It's so crazy to me that I can get emails about tryouts for indoor teams, (and yes- for a full indoor season,) yet outside games have to cross state lines just to play. Such a cluster!


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## jpeter (Oct 19, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> Anyone have any ideas on what new guidelines the Governor is putting out tomorrow? I'm curious if anyone has any hunches.


Large Theme parks 








						California to issue theme park reopening guidelines — but Disney and Universal may not be happy
					

Newsom said last week that he anticipated his administration would issue separate reopening guidelines for smaller and larger theme parks in the state.




					www.dailynews.com
				




Gov. Gavin Newsom said long-awaited COVID-19 health and safety guidelines for the state’s theme parks will be announced Tuesday, Oct. 20, but Disneyland, Universal Studios Hollywood and other larger parks may be unhappy with the new reopening plans.

Newsom said during a news conference on Monday, Oct. 19 that amusement parks reopening guidelines will be released by California Health and Human Services secretary Mark Ghaly on Tuesday.

Youth sports update hopefully soon but just like the theme parks some like LA maybe unhappy due to tiering or other restrictions.


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## 1dad2boys (Oct 19, 2020)

T


Grace T. said:


> [
> 
> 
> Even from the description the team started 2 seasons in bronze.  In some clubs that absolutely demand a promoted team age 8-10 that's enough to get the coach let go (or at a minimum for the team to suffer some major disruptions).  Assuming the team didn't use the other gold old strategy (lose the dead weight, promote in some really fast kids),, I'd be curious to hear how they managed to hold it together that long in the early years.


There is no need to ever play bronze. Coast allows the team/club to select bronze or silver. Was it a coaching decision to place the team correctly?


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## Paul Spacey (Oct 19, 2020)

1dad2boys said:


> T
> 
> There is no need to ever play bronze. Coast allows the team/club to select bronze or silver. Was it a coaching decision to place the team correctly?


Unless they’ve changed the way they do things at CSL, you can’t play in silver unless you have at least 7 players who have already played at that level or above previously. So new teams have to start in bronze and earn promotion.

I’m guessing there are probably exceptions; maybe some bigger clubs can lobby to start higher regardless of the level of players as they pay a lot of money to CSL or perhaps have a history of strong teams.

Keeping players together is a challenge if you are in bronze for more than a season or two max; there is definitely a stigma attached to being a perceived ‘low level’ bronze team.


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## Sandypk (Oct 19, 2020)

46n2 said:


> Crush , you spam the boards with your nonsense. Honestly you have made these boards unenjoyable again with your rambling nonsense...
> 
> Personally your post are mindless and lack any value or input here.  Take a break and stop holding these boards hijack.
> 
> ...


Most of us put him and all his alias’s on ignore.  It helps sift thru the garbage talk.


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## Grace T. (Oct 19, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> Unless they’ve changed the way they do things at CSL, you can’t play in silver unless you have at least 7 players who have already played at that level or above previously. So new teams have to start in bronze and earn promotion.
> 
> I’m guessing there are probably exceptions; maybe some bigger clubs can lobby to start higher regardless of the level of players as they pay a lot of money to CSL or perhaps have a history of strong teams.
> 
> Keeping players together is a challenge if you are in bronze for more than a season or two max; there is definitely a stigma attached to being a perceived ‘low level’ bronze team.


My son's team 3 years ago tried to start in silver.  Lobbied hard.  They wouldn't let them.  Wound up winning the bronze division, some games by like 20-0.  But when they hit league cup they were easily swept by other upper level silver and silver elite teams because the players hadn't played at that level of competition before.


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## crush (Oct 20, 2020)

Sandypk said:


> Most of us put him and all his alias’s on ignore.  It helps sift thru the garbage talk.


Sandy, where have you been?  One day I will share all the positive PMs I get almost every week, like "Were with you bro, keep it up." Or, "I'm super sorry to hear about what happen three years ago and_____________________________."  "I would share more but I dont want to be retaliated against and labeled by past Docs on here."  It's the PMs and little love from the likes of Eagle that keep me going.  It's you Sandy, 46 n 2 and Espy that bring attention to me by responding and actually say, "Must of us ignore him" except you?  Come on Sandy, you need to practice what you preach.  I'm full of garbage. Garbage in and garbage out.  What are you full of?  The key is to really ignore me and just dont worry about me and say nothing.  BTW, big props on getting a "like" by Espy. That is a great accomplishment and should be a badge of honor for you.  Pay to play folks are struggling right about now. Tough times for sure and I will be more sensitive to others who played in that arena.


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## Footy30 (Oct 20, 2020)

crush said:


> Sandy, where have you been?  One day I will share all the positive PMs I get almost every week, like "Were with you bro, keep it up." Or, "I'm super sorry to hear about what happen three years ago and_____________________________."  "I would share more but I dont want to be retaliated against and labeled by past Docs on here."  It's the PMs and little love from the likes of Eagle that keep me going.  It's you Sandy, 46 n 2 and Espy that bring attention to me by responding and actually say, "Must of us ignore him" except you?  Come on Sandy, you need to practice what you preach.  I'm full of garbage. Garbage in and garbage out.  What are you full of?  The key is to really ignore me and just dont worry about me and say nothing.  BTW, big props on getting a "like" by Espy. That is a great accomplishment and should be a badge of honor for you.  Pay to play folks are struggling right about now. Tough times for sure and I will be more sensitive to others who played in that arena.


Crush, ignore the people giving you a hard time seriously...it's negative energy nobody needs right now


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