# What's Wrong College Soccer



## SIMONMAGUS (May 5, 2017)

At pro clubs, almost anywhere in the world these days, young players will also run into players with totally different backgrounds, players who bring a variety of styles and approaches to the sport.

The gap between the pro scene, with its harsh competition, its varied influences, its non-stop devotion to the sport is planets away from the lotus fields of college soccer. If college soccer has slowly edged away from the all-white, suburban athlete image that it carried into the 21st century, it has not moved nearly far enough.

In theory -- on paper, that is -- there is plenty to be said for the more humanist approach of college soccer. But in competition with the worldwide pro approach to the business of producing star soccer players, it’s a sure-fire loser.

https://www.socceramerica.com/article/55409/college-soccer-simply-unreal.html


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## SoccerFan4Life (May 5, 2017)

college soccer is just a vehicle to give the student and parents a break on college tuition through scholarships.  

There will never be a direct correlation between college soccer and pro soccer. Sure there's some players that make it to the pro's  through college.  The reality is that if you want to make it to the pros you need to follow the path of the rest of the world players.  
In the USA, We cannot treat the path to pro soccer the same way it happens with football and basketball.


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## Grace T. (May 5, 2017)

The Europeans think its ridiculous that we waste 4 years of training for boys in college with competition which is relatively homogeneous, with (in their opinion) sub par (because anyone that's good enough would be playing pro in Europe or Latin America) competitors, with subpar training, and a very short season.

On the other hand, the Europeans could give a about girls.  The US has been dominant in the women's sport because there is no equivalent pro action in Europe for women.  Further, the Europeans have a very different approach to education.  Not everyone is entitled to go to college.  Kids are tracked (and successful families whose kids don't get into programs in Europe send their kids here) and usually their education is paid for by the state if they are fortunate enough to make the grade.  There are far less amenities and very few school-affiliated teams.  Education in Europe is about developing your profession-- there are no doctors who study Shakespeare or lawyers that learn music appreciation -- you don't major in "English"....you major in your professional subject matter like law or medicine.

Our club system has developed as a result to support college enrollments...very broad based supporting not just the best of the best players but also the very good ones.  The European Academy system tracks...by 8 you are picked for an academy team and to get on afterwards is very difficult but plenty of players are cut along the way.  Their focus is on developing the best of the best, and if others can't hack it, well too bad so sad.  It's the same approach when it comes to ascension and relegation in their leagues-- survival of the fittest.  Their salaries reflect that as well (even more so when it comes to Latin America)...the Messis and Ronaldos of the world will do quite well, but the full back for the 15th level team in the league isn't doing as well.  And because we have a club system, we don't see as many Hispanic athletes (as complained in the article) playing soccer as we might otherwise simply because of the pay-to-play expenses.

I'm not picking sides on which system is better or worse-- they are both geared to producing different ultimate ends.  But the United States is never going to have a system like Europe so long as we think college is a place for kids to get a broad education and that every kid deserves such an education, and so long as sports is linked into that system (and you aren't going to delink them for any of the sports so long as college football and basketball remain as popular and are such moneymakers for the colleges).  And even if you could change things, how many middle class families would be willing to send their 8 year olds to an academy that takes them off the safe academic track for a risky chance that they might be Messi (assuming puberty is kind and the kid turns out to be gifted and doesn't suffer a debilitating injury), when its more likely that the kid is going to wash out, or if they are lucky, that he might get stuck playing for an MLS team for a few years at roughly the salary of a civil service job....it's why so many of the greats come out of the barrios.


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## Daniel Miller (May 6, 2017)

There is nothing wrong with college soccer, assuming you are going to college for the purpose of getting an education. 

If you are going to college because you think this is the path to a professional soccer career, well, you are just plain stupid.  But, if you can stick around for the full 4-5 years, at least you will get an education.


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## Lambchop (May 6, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> There is nothing wrong with college soccer, assuming you are going to college for the purpose of getting an education.
> 
> If you are going to college because you think this is the path to a professional soccer career, well, you are just plain stupid.  But, if you can stick around for the full 4-5 years, at least you will get an education.





Daniel Miller said:


> There is nothing wrong with college soccer, assuming you are going to college for the purpose of getting an education.
> 
> If you are going to college because you think this is the path to a professional soccer career, well, you are just plain stupid.  But, if you can stick around for the full 4-5 years, at least you will get an education.


With life expectancy now into the 80's, you better make sure you have a career outside of sports.


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## Overlap (May 10, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> The Europeans think its ridiculous that we waste 4 years of training for boys in college with competition which is relatively homogeneous, with (in their opinion) sub par (because anyone that's good enough would be playing pro in Europe or Latin America) competitors, with subpar training, and a very short season.
> 
> On the other hand, the Europeans could give a about girls.  The US has been dominant in the women's sport because there is no equivalent pro action in Europe for women.  Further, the Europeans have a very different approach to education.  Not everyone is entitled to go to college.  Kids are tracked (and successful families whose kids don't get into programs in Europe send their kids here) and usually their education is paid for by the state if they are fortunate enough to make the grade.  There are far less amenities and very few school-affiliated teams.  Education in Europe is about developing your profession-- there are no doctors who study Shakespeare or lawyers that learn music appreciation -- you don't major in "English"....you major in your professional subject matter like law or medicine.
> 
> ...


Insert Mic drop here....


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## John Akii-Bua (May 10, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Our club system has developed as a result to support college enrollments...very broad based supporting not just the best of the best players but also the very good ones.


Maybe it's a minor point, but I would take issue with this, as it makes it seem like US youth club soccer is well integrated into a rational system of developing players/students for college. I find it much more haphazard, with most clubs and coaches really having very little idea what the college soccer scene looks like and what college coaches are actually looking for. In the larger sense, I'm not really sure that US youth soccer is really "geared" to much of anything at all beyond perpetuating itself.

Personally, I'd go even further and argue that the main driver of the American club soccer environment was that DOCs, coaches, and tournament directors recognized an opportunity to earn a decent living. Part of how they did so was using college admission/scholarships as a lure. Nothing really wrong with all this; to the extent that they're failing to develop world class players, I'd also say that the US Soccer fed didn't do enough to ensure high standards. 



Grace T. said:


> The European Academy system tracks...by 8 you are picked for an academy team and to get on afterwards is very difficult but plenty of players are cut along the way. Their focus is on developing the best of the best, and if others can't hack it, well too bad so sad.


I'd also take issue with this. DA here follows this exact logic too, just like the small slice of very top Euro academies. Here in the US we expend a huge amount of energy trying to sort out the elite and casting aside everyone else - tryout season lasts months, every single year. It's true that the very top European pro club academies are very competitive. However, the thing is that there are so many professional teams academies and even private academies, late bloomers have plenty of opportunities to play at a very high level and still bounce back up to the very top in their late teens or early twenties. But furthermore, because soccer is so highly integrated into everyday life, there are many more opportunities and resources in recreational soccer. As a result, the overall soccer IQ and culture is much higher in Europe, which makes it easier for the top players to develop soccer intelligence. (Does anyone remember that article about Ajax in the NY Times sunday magazine from years ago? It discussed how the dutch invest heavily in recreational soccer, on the assumption that if they teach everyone, a handful of kids will fall in love with the sport and develop excellence in it.)



Grace T. said:


> And even if you could change things, how many middle class families would be willing to send their 8 year olds to an academy that takes them off the safe academic track for a risky chance that they might be Messi (assuming puberty is kind and the kid turns out to be gifted and doesn't suffer a debilitating injury), when its more likely that the kid is going to wash out, or if they are lucky, that he might get stuck playing for an MLS team for a few years at roughly the salary of a civil service job....it's why so many of the greats come out of the barrios.


I may be wrong about this, but my impression is that at least the top Euro club academies are now investing more in the academic education of their youth players, not because they care about the kids, but because they feel that it helps develop the intelligence required to be a top player on and off the field.  Similarly, it's my impression that in Europe, players are now coming more from the middle class than out of the projects.  (See _Das Reboot_)

Having said all that, I agree with your broad point that it's very different in Europe and the US and it's hard to see how things could change here:


Grace T. said:


> I'm not picking sides on which system is better or worse-- they are both geared to producing different ultimate ends. But the United States is never going to have a system like Europe so long as we think college is a place for kids to get a broad education and that every kid deserves such an education, and so long as sports is linked into that system (and you aren't going to delink them for any of the sports so long as college football and basketball remain as popular and are such moneymakers for the colleges).


I'd just add that the differences are even more fundamental. In the US, we value choice and the individual, private pursuit of happiness, so there are many more different sports to play or watch. In Europe, the culture is a little more monolithic, centralized, or unified, and for historical reasons, soccer is the primary activity for youth recreation and competition (for boys, at least). The soccer scenes reflect those differences.


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## Grace T. (May 10, 2017)

John Akii-Bua said:


> I'd also take issue with this. DA here follows this exact logic too, just like the small slice of very top Euro academies. Here in the US we expend a huge amount of energy trying to sort out the elite and casting aside everyone else - tryout season lasts months, every single year. It's true that the very top European pro club academies are very competitive. However, the thing is that there are so many professional teams academies and even private academies, late bloomers have plenty of opportunities to play at a very high level and still bounce back up to the very top in their late teens or early twenties. But furthermore, because soccer is so highly integrated into everyday life, there are many more opportunities and resources in recreational soccer. As a result, the overall soccer IQ and culture is much higher in Europe, which makes it easier for the top players to develop soccer intelligence. (Does anyone remember that article about Ajax in the NY Times sunday magazine from years ago? It discussed how the dutch invest heavily in recreational soccer, on the assumption that if they teach everyone, a handful of kids will fall in love with the sport and develop excellence in it.)


I don't really take issue with any of your notes.  But note I didn't say club soccer is rationally integrated....it's not....if we were setting up a system from scratch that made sense to train kids for college soccer it wouldn't look like this and indeed it would hamper us even more with pro development than we are now....if it were rationally integrated then it would be set up in the schools.  No, my point was that the economic incentives set up by our collegiate system have created the incentives for the creation of club soccer-- it's why they can earn a living that way.

Here is the link for the Ajax article but it is discussing their Academy system.  The Euros support rec so 1) they can have fans, and 2) in the off chance that a prodigy can be spotted that might make the hop onto the Academy system.  The article is a bit old now....for example at the time Latin America was shifting to an Academy system as well....they aren't fully there but they aren't anymore in the days of rec street soccer...the days of Pele coming in from the barrio are over....my father in fact played extensive rec soccer in Latin America and actually took a run at a pro team ...we assumed he would therefore know how to coach our sons and when he raised the issue of soccer, that he would be their coach...turned out he didn't know as much as both he and I thought and that idea didn't work out to well...having pursued my basic licenses I know more than he does, and I still find I have very much left to learn.  Our DA system remember also was specifically made to emulate the European model....it was supposed to be exclusive and the original idea when it was contemplated was that they would be linked to MLS teams as in Europe (so that for SoCal our one DA would be the Galaxy)...hasn't really worked out that way, as some in this forum predicted.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html

And yes the Europeans are investing more in educating their players but not because they want them to be smarter players....it's to appease the concerns of middle class parents since they are struggling to attract top talent, coupled with their falling birthrates...parents are demanding a safety net if the kids are cut.  To look at a system that is truly a mess, and a hybrid between the US and the Euro system, look at the UK...and they wonder why British soccer has struggled recently (not to mention the competition from rugby and ck).


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## ray8 (May 10, 2017)

John Akii-Bua said:


> Personally, I'd go even further and argue that the main driver of the American club soccer environment was that DOCs, coaches, and tournament directors recognized an opportunity to earn a decent living. Part of how they did so was using college admission/scholarships as a lure.


So true. And this culture they fostered continues to corrupt almost all of the so-called academies.


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## gauchosean (May 10, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> At pro clubs, almost anywhere in the world these days, young players will also run into players with totally different backgrounds, players who bring a variety of styles and approaches to the sport.
> 
> The gap between the pro scene, with its harsh competition, its varied influences, its non-stop devotion to the sport is planets away from the lotus fields of college soccer. If college soccer has slowly edged away from the all-white, suburban athlete image that it carried into the 21st century, it has not moved nearly far enough.
> 
> ...


This article was written in 2013, last August the soccer coaches promoted a new system. No movement on this yet but at least the coaches are on board. 

https://www.nscaa.com/web/News/Articles/August_2016/NSCAA_D1_College_Men_Propose_Academic_Year_Season_Model.aspx


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## timbuck (May 10, 2017)

Surprised clubs haven't extended letting players "pay to play" until their mid 20s. 
Surely if they can sell parents in a college scholarship, they can sell them on a semi-pro pay to play with the chance to going pro promise.  The league could exist for competition before/after the college season is done.


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## SoccerFan4Life (May 11, 2017)

It's a business and clearly there's some abuse on the Coaching and Academies side making empty promises.   However, as a parent you need to be realistic and decide how good is your son/daughter?    If they are crushing everyone else all the way through the academy, then they have a good chance at scholarships or going pro.   If they are just above average, forget about it.   Colleges are recruiting kids from Europe, Mexico, and other parts of the world.   Bottom line, your child needs to be unstoppable and way above the rest to  have a high success rate to make it.    With girls there might be more flexibility in terms of their skills ranking.  With boys,  not at all!!!


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 11, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Bottom line, your child needs to be unstoppable and way above the rest to  have a high success rate to make it.    With girls there might be more flexibility in terms of their skills ranking.  With boys,  not at all!!!


I can dig it.

Based on skill boys and girls are apples and oranges although majority of DD parents can't tell the difference.


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## NoGoal (May 11, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> I can dig it.
> 
> Based on skill boys and girls are apples and oranges although majority of DD parents can't tell the difference.


Don't confuse boys being more athletic with being more skilled than girls.  IMO, Marta is just as skilled as Neymar.


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 11, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> Don't confuse boys being more athletic with being more skilled than girls.  IMO, Marta is just as skilled as Neymar.


Hi.lar.i.ous!


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## pulguita (May 11, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> Don't confuse boys being more athletic with being more skilled than girls.  IMO, Marta is just as skilled as Neymar.


Sorry bud not even close.


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## soccer4us (May 11, 2017)

Yup, it's not close  What it did show is how poor most women defenders are! Marta is like no one else we've seen in the women's game for the most part. That's why it seems like it's comparable. The speed at which Neymar does his dribbling skills is blows my mind. When he's not rolling around for getting hit by a feather, he's sure fun to watch!


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## Lambchop (May 11, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> I can dig it.
> 
> Based on skill boys and girls are apples and oranges although majority of DD parents can't tell the difference.


Not just on skills, but on every level, ability to communicate, to be empathetic, to have an understanding on what is important in life.  Boys and girls are definitely apples and oranges apart.   Just read recently how males commit 95% of all murders, females 1%, 4% unknown, although statistically probably most of the 4% are also males.  In addition most violent crimes are committed by males.  Like you said apples and oranges.


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## NoGoal (May 11, 2017)

soccer4us said:


> Yup, it's not close  What it did show is how poor most women defenders are! Marta is like no one else we've seen in the women's game for the most part. That's why it seems like it's comparable. The speed at which Neymar does his dribbling skills is blows my mind. When he's not rolling around for getting hit by a feather, he's sure fun to watch!


As I posted, don't confuse a mans superior athleticism which includes their speed which includes being able to dribble the ball faster than a women.  If Marta was as athletic as Neymar I'm sure she could do things similar.


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## NoGoal (May 11, 2017)

pulguita said:


> Sorry bud not even close.


Again, don't confuse a man's athletic ability with being more skilled.  Watching men cut, juke, run faster, and kicking harder only makes them look more skilled on the ball.  Women are not as athletic, thus perform at a slower pace and makes them look like they aren't as skilled.


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## NoGoal (May 11, 2017)

soccer4us said:


> Yup, it's not close  What it did show is how poor most women defenders are! Marta is like no one else we've seen in the women's game for the most part. That's why it seems like it's comparable. The speed at which Neymar does his dribbling skills is blows my mind. When he's not rolling around for getting hit by a feather, he's sure fun to watch!


Just re-read your own post, you stated it's not because of Marta's skill...but, how poor women defenders are.   Um, it's no different than Neymar making male defenders look poor as well.  Yet, he has more skill?  #nologic


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## NoGoal (May 11, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> Hi.lar.i.ous!


After reading several of your posts.  I have come to the conclusion you're  a dumba$$!


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## MWN (May 11, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> Don't confuse boys being more athletic with being more skilled than girls.  IMO, Marta is just as skilled as Neymar.


Let's just talk facts.  The USWNT plays the ODP Boys U15/U16 team and lose.  They will lose most of the time, but might win a few.
http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/uswnt-vs-so-cal-boys-odp.929075/
http://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/
and there is this: http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1698/womens-soccer/2016/05/26/23954642/australia-womens-soccer-team-faces-unfair-global-backlash

Nobody (but some that don't like goals) are confused.  The girls/women are awesome.  They play at a very high level for women.  The reality is the World Cup Winning USWNT can't beat a DA or ODP U16 Boys team.  Its not a knock on the women, it is just the reality of the physical difference between between the boys and the girls.  The USWNT is smarter and more tactical, but their bodies are not anywhere on par with 15 and 16 year old boys from a speed, quickness, and strength standpoint.

Its not a knock on the women, its just reality.  The fact that the USWNT plays BU15 boys to get real competition (and lose most of the time) is awesome and commendable.  The women and their coaches know that they have to challenge themselves by playing against superior (physically) teams to get better.

All of that said, yes, there are some incredible women athletes, but the the fastest women sprinter in the world, Flo Jo, runs the 100-meter dash at 10.49, whereas the fastest man, Usian Bolt, ran the 100-meter dash at 9.58.  Nearly a full second faster.  The slowest man during that world record setting run by Usian Bolt was Darvis Patton at 10.03.

I'm sorry, I really am, but teenage boys are physically stronger, quicker and faster than the best women soccer players.  Its for this reason that there is not a legitimate "professional path" for women sports.  Not women's soccer, the WNBA, or any other league.  

Apples and oranges.  Love the apples for what they are and the oranges too.


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## NoGoal (May 11, 2017)

Just to prove my point.  Indie Cowie a former UNC womens player won a FIFA freestyle contest against men.  Yes MEN and freestyling is a soccer skill.

http://urbanpitch.com/5-things-know-pro-freestyler-indi-cowie/

https://www.google.com/amp/deadspin.com/5786765/watch-16-year-old-indi-cowie-juggle-a-soccer-ball-better-than-the-boys/amp


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## NoGoal (May 11, 2017)

MWN said:


> Let's just talk facts.  The USWNT plays the ODP Boys U15/U16 team and lose.  They will lose most of the time, but might win a few.
> http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/uswnt-vs-so-cal-boys-odp.929075/
> http://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/
> and there is this: http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1698/womens-soccer/2016/05/26/23954642/australia-womens-soccer-team-faces-unfair-global-backlash
> ...


Is it that hard NOT to compare a males superior athleticism and confuse it when comparing soccer skills?  #sheesh


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## NoGoal (May 11, 2017)

Different sport, but shooting 3's is a skill also.   This isn't a comparison about men being more athletic and better dunkers than women.

https://www.google.com/amp/globalnews.ca/news/1921704/cassandra-brown-wins-mens-and-womens-ncaa-three-point-contest/amp/


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## Zerodenero (May 11, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> Different sport, but shooting 3's is a skill also.   This isn't a comparison about men being more athletic and better dunkers than women.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/globalnews.ca/news/1921704/cassandra-brown-wins-mens-and-womens-ncaa-three-point-contest/amp/


Very cool.


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## PLSAP (May 12, 2017)

Goodness. Does any other than for NoGoal get it? A male body is completely different from a woman's body. There are generations worth of genes in the male body that allows them to be faster, be stronger, etc (the hunters, the workers, etc) Women on the other hand, up until the last century or so, were the gathers in the old times, the stay at home moms basically up until the 18th century , etc.  That does NOT mean that a women's sport is cannot be a "professional path", not trying to get into the NWSL and if it is worth it just yet. But that debate does not connect to skill or athleticism whatsoever. But, anyways, just because a woman cannot jump as high as a man doesn't mean she isn't a good basketball player. It doesn't mean she isn't skilled. Like NoGoal says, athletic ability and technical skill/ability are different. It's just a result of how the different bodies have evolved over time.
Just because a female soccer player can't 100% blast the ball as hard as a male in the pros, doesn't mean that they can't curl the ball, have deadly aim, or even be a free kick specialist.
OF COURSE there is a difference b/t fastest man in the world and fastest woman in the world! Is she a less skilled runner? NO. Are you going to say she didn't work her hardest for that time. I hope not.


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 12, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Bottom line, your child needs to be unstoppable and way above the rest to  have a high success rate to make it.    With girls there might be more flexibility in terms of their skills ranking.  With boys,  not at all!!!


We were talking about College soccer before Dodo Bird with No Goals spun the topic outta control comparing men's athleticism vs women's and Neymar's skill vs Marta's.

There's no comparison by the way. Men are more athletic than women and Neymar's skill is far superior than Marta's.

But suppose Dodo Bird's straw man argument holds water if we were to stay on topic. Who's skill set comes even close to Marta's in the United States? SoccerFan4Life is right, girls have more flexibility in terms of skill because we just don't have it.

You can ramble on and on but the fact of the matter is U.S. women's soccer is based on athleticism (Hulk Wambach) not skill (Marta).


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## timbuck (May 12, 2017)

Maybe not quite there with Marta, but Tobin Heath is pretty fun to watch.


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> We were talking about College soccer before Dodo Bird with No Goals spun the topic outta control comparing men's athleticism vs women's and Neymar's skill vs Marta's.
> 
> There's no comparison by the way. Men are more athletic than women and Neymar's skill is far superior than Marta's.
> 
> ...


I ventured off topic? I was replying to your idiot post below.  #duh



SIMONMAGUS said:


> I can dig it.
> 
> Based on skill boys and girls are apples and oranges although majority of DD parents can't tell the difference.


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## outside! (May 12, 2017)

Optically, soccer is one of the easiest team sports in the world to watch. The ball is big enough to be visible (unlike hockey) and is rarely shielded from view by the players. While it can have very complex strategies, the lay viewer does not need to understand those strategies to enjoy the game. It is fast moving enough to be interesting, but not so fast you can't tell what is happening. IMO, the design of soccer makes high level women's soccer is great to watch live or on TV. While it will take some time, I believe that soccer is one of the sports that will become viable as a professional sport for women.


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 12, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> I ventured off topic? I was replying to your idiot post below.  #learntofollow


I just reaffirmed my post, DodoBird. Skillwise they're apples and oranges. Your argument didn't make much sense other than prove what skill (Marta) is and what U.S. lack in.


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> I just reaffirmed my post, DodoBird. Skillwise they're apples and oranges. Your argument didn't make much sense other than prove what skill (Marta) is and what U.S. lack in.


What? Are you changing the narrative now. Which is it males are more skill than women or Marta has more skill than US WNT players.  Do me a favor stand up, take deep breaths and collect your thoughts before typing on your keyboard.

Because if you are changing it to Marta is more skilled than US WNT players.  No different than Messi and Neymar are more skilled than any US MNT player. #duh

Maybe change your alias to simoncro-magnon


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## timbuck (May 12, 2017)

Geesh. You guys sounds like my 7 year old and 9 year old arguing during a road trip.
Who would win in a fight?  Superman or Mighty Mouse?


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## younothat (May 12, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Who would win in a fight?  Superman or Mighty Mouse?


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

timbuck said:


> Geesh. You guys sounds like my 7 year old and 9 year old arguing during a road trip.
> Who would win in a fight?  Superman or Mighty Mouse?


Wolverine would beat both!


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 12, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> What? Are you changing the narrative now. Which is it males are more skill than women or Marta has more skill than US WNT players.  Do me a favor stand up, take deep breaths and collect your thoughts before typing on your keyboard.
> 
> Because if you are changing it to Marta is more skilled than US WNT players.  No different than Messi and Neymar are more skilled than any US MNT player. #duh
> 
> Maybe change your alias to simoncro-magnon


lol You're the one who brought up Marta, genius.

And yes, Marta is more skilled than the USWNT, and men are more skilled than women.

What do you not agree with?


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> lol You're the one who brought up Marta, genius.
> 
> And yes, Marta is more skilled than the USWNT, and men are more skilled than women.
> 
> What do you not agree with?


That's right I brought it up to reply to your idiot post that men are more skilled than women. 

You're seriously not very bright.  Try re-reading my posts again maybe you will figure out where I stand.


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## Lambchop (May 12, 2017)

MWN said:


> Let's just talk facts.  The USWNT plays the ODP Boys U15/U16 team and lose.  They will lose most of the time, but might win a few.
> http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/uswnt-vs-so-cal-boys-odp.929075/
> http://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/
> and there is this: http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1698/womens-soccer/2016/05/26/23954642/australia-womens-soccer-team-faces-unfair-global-backlash
> ...


Wow, a full second!  I am impressed!  I wonder if you adjust for length of leg and stride what the difference would be.


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## SoccerFan4Life (May 12, 2017)

So......... the original topic of this post is officially dead and gone.


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> So......... the original topic of this post is officially dead and gone.


The original topic was DEAD on arrival, until SimonCro-Magnon posted comparing men to women's soccer skill is apples and oranges and has since received 2 1/2 pages of replies.


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 12, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> That's right I brought it up to reply to your idiot post that men are more skilled than women.
> 
> You're seriously not very bright.  Try re-reading my posts again maybe you will figure out where I stand.


lol@women are more skilled than men in soccer.

SoCal Soccer Forum parents refuse to evolve.smh


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> lol@women are more skilled than men in soccer.
> 
> SoCal Soccer Forum parents refuse to evolve.


I never posted women are more skilled than men.   I posted women are as skilled as men in soccer. #dunce

Try re-reading my posts a 3rd time.  I have faith you have at least a 1st grade reading comprehension.

Now get back to work, your afternoon break is over!


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 12, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> The original topic was DEAD on arrival, until SimonCro-Magnon posted comparing men to women's soccer skill is apples and oranges and has since received 2 1/2 pages of replies.


Mainly made up of your replies that didn't prove anything.


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 12, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> I never said that, please improve you comprehension.  I posted women and just as skilled as men, NOT more skilled. #dunce


Still they're not, you're delusional.

You gave us an example Marta, but she's from Brazil.


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> Still they're not, you're delusional.
> 
> You gave us an example Marta, but she's from Brazil.


You have not provided any support to your argument.

Yes, Marta is from Brazil....you are so dam smart!  It doesn't mean she isn't a female? Neymar is from Brazil also....does that mean he isn't a male.  #dunce

So Neymar can execute a stepover, blow past a defender and score a goal.  Marta can also do a stepover, blow past a defender and score a goal.  Neymar can execute a Cruyff to create space and pass....Marta can do it as well.  Neymar can score goals on set pieces, so can Marta.


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 12, 2017)

Ho





SoccerFan4Life said:


> Bottom line, your child needs to be unstoppable and way above the rest to  have a high success rate to make it.    With girls there might be more flexibility in terms of their skills ranking.  With boys,  not at all!!!


Round and round we go, Retardo. This was the initial post which I responded to with "apples and oranges" pertaining to college.

Your pathetic retorts were examples of Marta as if college soccer were filled with the likes of her skill. It's not.


NoGoal said:


> You have not provided any support to your argument.
> 
> Yes, Marta is from Brazil....you are so dam smart!  It doesn't mean she isn't a female? Neymar is from Brazil also....does that mean he isn't a male.  #dunce
> 
> So Neymar can execute a stepover, blow past a defender and score a goal.  Marta can also do a stepover, blow past a defender and score a goal.  Neymar can execute a Cruyff to create space and pass....Marta can do it as well.  Neymar can score goals on set pieces, so can Marta.


More mumbo jumbo a real fountain of stupidity.


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> Ho
> 
> Round and round we go, Retardo. This was the initial post which I responded to with "apples and oranges" pertaining to college.
> 
> ...


You can't back your crap up.  I am comparing apples to apples Neymar from Brazil and Marta from Brazil.  Both are equally skilled.  Now you want to compare men and female skill in NCAA college soccer?

Rose Lavelle who graduated from Wisconisn and drafted #1 in the NWSL this year is just as skilled compared to any male attacking mid playing D1 college soccer.


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 12, 2017)

This is the title of the thread just in case you missed it:

*What's Wrong College Soccer*


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> You can't back your crap up.  I am comparing apples to apples Neymar from Brazil and Marta from Brazil.  Both are equally skilled.  Now you want to compare men and female skill in NCAA college soccer?
> 
> Rose Lavelle who graduated from Wisconisn and drafted #1 in the NWSL this year is just as skilled compared to any male attacking mid playing D1 college soccer.


Jessie Fleming who plays for UCLA and on the Canadian WNT.  I would argue is more creative and skillfull than any D1 male college player at the present.  She is probably on par with Christian Pulistic on ability being the same age.


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> This is the title of the thread just in case you missed it:
> 
> *What's Wrong College Soccer*


I see you are backpedaling now!  What's wrong can't support your post that males are more skillful than females? #dunce

This is you, uh uh uh but the original post was what is wrong with college soccer?


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 12, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> I see you are backpedaling now!  What's wrong can't support your post that males are more skillful than females? #dunce
> 
> This is you, uh uh uh but the original post was what is wrong with college soccer?


Backpedaling huh? My initial  comment stands firm. *rolls eyes*

You know, at first I thought you were just trollin' me real FKN hard here, but now it's painfully obvious, you're completely retarded. 

Now your comparing Pulisic's ability  with that of a UCLA player. If you can agree that Marta's skill as you mentioned is superior to that of Pulisic then why even mention Jessie? 

You're reaching and sound more pathetic with your every post. That your monkey a $$ has been sitting there eagerly waiting to retort with gibberish doesn't prove you right. It proves you're a nuisance.


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> Backpedaling huh? My initial  comment stands firm. *rolls eyes*
> 
> You know, at first I thought you were just trollin' me real FKN hard here, but now it's painfully obvious, you're completely retarded.
> 
> ...


You don't even know who Rose Lavelle or Jessie Fleming are. Yet, you post garbage in return as your rebuttal.  Do me a favor, do some research before striking the keyboard!  #LOSER 

Oh I know it's hard for you to follow, you asked about college women soccer players and I replied with Rose Lavelle and Jessie Fleming.  #keepup

Your original post was trash, your post about males being more skilled than women is trash, your rebuttals are trash = you are TRASH!


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## Rusty (May 12, 2017)

Anyone that throws out the term "retardo" shouldn't even dignify a response...


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 12, 2017)

Rusty said:


> Anyone that throws out the term "retardo" shouldn't even dignify a response...


Why, you own one?


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## Rusty (May 12, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> Why, you own one?


Keep illustrating your ignorance...


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> Why, you own one?


You're an a-hole!  You don't know if any of the forum posters have a kid with down syndrome or autism. You posted, do you own one. Have some empathy!


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 12, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> You're an a-hole!  You don't know if any of the forum posters have a kid with down syndrome or autism. You posted, do you own one. Have some empathy!


Hahaha!


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> Hahaha!


And you laugh about it.  Dam you are dumb as nails, a male chauvinist pig and insensitive to parents who may have kids with down syndrome or austism.  #dickhead #straight2hell


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 12, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> And you laugh about it.  Dam you are a male chauvinist pig and insensitive to parents who may have kids with down syndrome or austism.  #dickhead #straight2hell


Human suffering is irrelevant to me.


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> Human suffering is irrelevant to me.


You didn't acknowledge they were human, don't flatter yourself.  Suffering, WTF!  You must have mush for brains.


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 12, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> You didn't acknowledge they were human, don't flatter yourself.  Suffering, WTF!  You must have mush for brains.


That was smart.


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## NoGoal (May 12, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> That was smart.


You must have been physically abused as a young kid, because you lack empathy. Nah, your parents just dropped you on your head.


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## Soccer43 (May 13, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> Human suffering is irrelevant to me.


Are  you a parent?  What is wrong with you?


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## Soccer43 (May 13, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> Why, you own one?


So you went from debating women's soccer to demeaning children with disabilities?  Not even sure you should be allowed to post of this site at this point.  Wow.


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## MakeAPlay (May 13, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> Hahaha!


@SIMONMAGUS Be a man and give me a call.  I will put a douche bag like you in your place.  But you won't because you are a coward that hides behind a keyboard.  Prove yourself mitch.  You've already proven your ignorance.  Prove how tough you are.


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## MakeAPlay (May 13, 2017)

Soccer43 said:


> Are  you a parent?  What is wrong with you?


He is a coward.


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## espola (May 13, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> That was smart.


I read through all 47 of your messages.  Nothing of any value in any of them.


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## focused1 (May 13, 2017)

Here's what I don't understand. Does this forum have a moderator? If so, how does he or she allow this guy to keep posting? Those sorts of statements have no place on a soccer forum and if this poster isn't banned I guess I need to take my reading and lurking elsewhere


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## SIMONMAGUS (May 13, 2017)

There is nothing wrong with college soccer, assuming you are going to college for the purpose of getting an education.

If you are going to college because you think this is the path to a professional soccer career, well, you are just plain stupid.  But, if you can stick around for the full 4-5 years, at least you will get an education. - Daniel Miller



I concur. 100%


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## espola (May 13, 2017)

focused1 said:


> Here's what I don't understand. Does this forum have a moderator? If so, how does he or she allow this guy to keep posting? Those sorts of statements have no place on a soccer forum and if this poster isn't banned I guess I need to take my reading and lurking elsewhere


Lower left of every message is a "Report" button that sends a message to the owner.


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## rainbow_unicorn (May 13, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> Why, you own one?


We have a winner!  Simonmagus has proven BY FAR to be the dumbest poster on the entire socalsoccer forum.  Congrats buddy!


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## Soccer43 (May 13, 2017)

so he gave up here and started the same topic in "WNT/MNT/World Cup/Int'l Soccer"


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## Zerodenero (May 13, 2017)

SIMONMAGUS said:


> Human suffering is irrelevant to me.


Stran'ge.


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## Livinthedream (May 13, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> He is a coward.


Don't waste your time...he's an idiot who probably has multiple names on the forum.


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## outside! (May 14, 2017)

I think I read something somewhere one time about feeding trolls...


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## JJP (May 21, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> Again, don't confuse a man's athletic ability with being more skilled.  Watching men cut, juke, run faster, and kicking harder only makes them look more skilled on the ball.  Women are not as athletic, thus perform at a slower pace and makes them look like they aren't as skilled.


I think you really can't compare men vs. women.  The question, if Marta were born as a man, would she be Neymar?  Or if Neymar were born a girl, would he be better than Marta, or worse.  I think it's a senseless question.

I say this because Neymar is Neymar because he had to develop his talent competing against the competition provided by Brazilian men, who have a long history of producing world class soccer players.   Then he jumped to the international stage and developed further pushed by the best men in the world.

Who did Marta have to compete with?  Brazil doesn't have a huge base of female soccer talent.  And the talent pool for women, compared to men, in soccer is shallow.

Neymar will be pushed to reach his full potential, Marta will not.

I believe you can see this in men's tennis.  Rafa had to push his game to the limit to beat Federer.  Rafa beat up on Federer's one-handed backhand with a lefty forehand that had a level of topspin never before seen.  Then Djokovic took out Nadal by developing his forehand and backhand so equally, Nadal couldn't punish Djoker's backhand like he did Fed's.  Now Federer has used a bigger racquet and improved his backhand so that he can beat Nadal's forehand.  The big three in men's tennis are always improving aspects of their game, pushed by the competition.

In women's tennis, Serena Williams is just killing everyone with the same power game she developed as a teen.  She has barely improved and she doesn't need to, nobody can challenge her.

That's why I say you can't compare top women vs. men.  Except some sports that women have done a long time and have participantion numbers equal or greater than men, the men develop their talent a lot more than women do, so it's just not a valid comparison.


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