# Parents and player character



## soloyosh (Feb 9, 2018)

A friend of mine had a player on his club team that texted the coach that he was sick. This text was followed by texts from the parents stating the same. Said player was later to be found working with a keeper coach during what would have been the normal team practice time while his parents watched. 

The player was removed from the team for lying to the coach (violation of the code of conduct). 

Thoughts?


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## BigSoccer (Feb 9, 2018)

Curious what the age of the player is.  Also, why did the player not just get permission to go to a keeper training.  Many coaches are accepting of keepers attending keeper training in lieu of team training.


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## El Clasico (Feb 9, 2018)

Thoughts about what?
The kid lied
The parents lied
The kid has been taught to deceive by the parents
The parents set the example.

Get rid of them, the parents are dangerous to a team environment and are a potential cancer.  Many other ways this could have been handled but to be cowardly about it is indicative of future problems.


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## soloyosh (Feb 9, 2018)

BigSoccer said:


> Curious what the age of the player is.  Also, why did the player not just get permission to go to a keeper training.  Many coaches are accepting of keepers attending keeper training in lieu of team training.


U14

Don't know the answer to your question as to why...


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## timbuck (Feb 9, 2018)

I guess it teaches a lesson not to lie. 
But- I don’t unless the kid is attending the other training as a “tryout” for another team, there is probably a teachable moment here and the kid doesn’t need to get kicked off. 

Coach (to parents and player at the same time): I’m concerned that you felt you had to lie to me about your reason for missing practice. If you had approached me and asked about attending a keeper training during our normal practice, we coulld have worked something out. Now, I have an issue with this. And now I have to question what’s really going on.  Can we have an open discussion about this?”


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## Justafan (Feb 9, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I guess it teaches a lesson not to lie.
> But- I don’t unless the kid is attending the other training as a “tryout” for another team, there is probably a teachable moment here and the kid doesn’t need to get kicked off.
> 
> Coach (to parents and player at the same time): I’m concerned that you felt you had to lie to me about your reason for missing practice. If you had approached me and asked about attending a keeper training during our normal practice, we coulld have worked something out. Now, I have an issue with this. And now I have to question what’s really going on.  Can we have an open discussion about this?”


There’s clearly something more going on between both parties other than this one incident.


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## GoldenFjord (Feb 9, 2018)

Welcome to the jungle we’ve got fun and games and absolutely no consequences
Your friend has a case


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## Lambchop (Feb 9, 2018)

soloyosh said:


> A friend of mine had a player on his club team that texted the coach that he was sick. This text was followed by texts from the parents stating the same. Said player was later to be found working with a keeper coach during what would have been the normal team practice time while his parents watched.
> 
> The player was removed from the team for lying to the coach (violation of the code of conduct).
> 
> Thoughts?


Were they afraid to tell the coach? If they were, why?  That is the biggest question of all. Certainly not good to lie but how many parents lie about kids ages to get in movies, or why they are absent from school or any other number of scenarios.  Sounds like there is a parent other than the liar who is just as much of a "cancer"!


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## GoldenFjord (Feb 9, 2018)

Lambchop said:


> Were they afraid to tell the coach? If they were, why?  That is the biggest question of all. Certainly not good to lie but how many parents lie about kids ages to get in movies, or why they are absent from school or any other number of scenarios.  Sounds like there is a parent other than the liar who is just as much of a "cancer"!


I think we’ve all called out sick because we forgot to put in for PTO but when the boss gets pissed we don’t get to be that surprised. If the kid got cut for this there had to have been problems leading up to it.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Feb 9, 2018)

In this over saturated club market, We are the customers.  The coach should not kick them out for lying.  We all tell a white lie here and there.  If anything the coach should be happy that the kid is training even if it's not with the team. 

Coaches lie too so maybe they should get kicked out too. Lol.


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## GoldenFjord (Feb 9, 2018)

I mean it really seems like this is the league you’re looking for


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## Nutmeg (Feb 9, 2018)

It’s hilarios to me when Coaches, clubs and parents try to be the morality police and pick and choose when and how to apply their own draconian rules. So what the parents lied and so what the kid lied. Parents get kids out of school all time for Soccer trips, tournaments, showcases, etc. Most don’t say hey School we are off to Soccer in Florida for 7 days. Nope you say your kid is sick. Does your school kick you out? No. Does your DD classmates parents call the school and be a tattle tale? No. Do the parents get lectured for poor school culture and setting a poor example? No. We waste so much time in this country on Soccer BS, rules, and so called club culture that it’s comical.


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## GoldenFjord (Feb 9, 2018)

Nutmeg said:


> It’s hilarios to me when Coaches, clubs and parents try to be the morality police and pick and choose when and how to apply their own draconian rules. So what the parents lied and so what the kid lied. Parents get kids out of school all time for Soccer trips, tournaments, showcases, etc. Most don’t say hey School we are off to Soccer in Florida for 7 days. Nope you say your kid is sick. Does your school kick you out? No. Does your DD classmates parents call the school and be a tattle tale? No. Do the parents get lectured for poor school culture and setting a poor example? No. We waste so much time in this country on Soccer BS, rules, and so called club culture that it’s comical.


Hey now that’s because education doesn’t matter. Ball is life.


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## MR.D (Feb 9, 2018)

GoldenFjord said:


> I mean it really seems like this is the league you’re looking for


Wow, that does look like a fun league.  Thanks


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## Nutmeg (Feb 9, 2018)

Nefutous said:


> Seems like most comments think the kid should not be penalized in this situation. So let's take it one step further.  Team is having a scrimmage in preparation for State Cup on a Saturday. Three weeks notice has been given that extra practices will take place on Saturdays in preparing for State Cup.  Kid says they cannot make it and it turns out that the kid is watching soccer games at another club.  As the coach do you say and do nothing, say nothing but bench kid for State Cup or kick kid off team now?  Assume same age as above. I am just wondering where everyone would draw the line.


I will bite. It’s a slow day in the office here. As a parent I draw no line because the line always moves. Do the best for your DD. As for the coach, I’d say if kid is a baller nothing is done as long they show up for game. if kid is marginal or below they make a statement example out of it.


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## GoldenFjord (Feb 9, 2018)

Nefutous said:


> Seems like most comments think the kid should not be penalized in this situation. So let's take it one step further.  Team is having a scrimmage in preparation for State Cup on a Saturday. Three weeks notice has been given that extra practices will take place on Saturdays in preparing for State Cup.  Kid says they cannot make it and it turns out that the kid is watching soccer games at another club.  As the coach do you say and do nothing, say nothing but bench kid for State Cup or kick kid off team now?  Assume same age as above. I am just wondering where everyone would draw the line.


Someone mentioned draconian rules so let’s go with that
If the underhanded behavior hurts the team the player should be hobbled. If it just annoys the coach they should just be mercilessly made fun of by grown adults on a soccer forum.


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## coachrefparent (Feb 9, 2018)

As others have noted, there is likely much more to this story.


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## soloyosh (Feb 9, 2018)

Further clarity:  He's been missing practice to do keeper training without letting the coach know (no call, no show).  Coach found out and asked about it.  Keeper coach is the players father and also works with other paying kids on the day that conflicts with team practice.  Coach asked them to adjust the keeper training time or work with his son one on one at a different time so he could make team practice.


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## timbuck (Feb 9, 2018)

Is the kid a full time keeper? Does he see any field time?


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## soloyosh (Feb 9, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Is the kid a full time keeper? Does he see any field time?


Not sure.  However, my experience with keeper training is that its pretty "hands" focused.  Most of the time the keeper has the ball at their feet, like a field player.  So I would think field time, with their team, is every it as important as anything else.  No?


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## Fact (Feb 9, 2018)

In the first situation obviously more has been going on.  But the keepers father should train his son some other time if he cannot adjust his coaching schedule for the other kids.  Drop him as soon as the team finds another keeper.

Second situation, commitment to the team comes first.  If the kid is a starter, part of set plays etc that the coach was planning on practicing during the scrimmage I would drop the kid.  The only reason I can think of for them watching other soccer games instead of practicing with their team is that they plan to more
after the season. If they went to a tryout that would be different, but just watching geeze.

  Soccer should be about development. And for
90+ percent that won't play in college, that development is Development  of the person's character.  Wait I take it back don't  cut them, bench them.  More powerful of a message.


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## mirage (Feb 9, 2018)

GoldenFjord said:


> Someone mentioned draconian rules so let’s go with that
> If the underhanded behavior hurts the team the player should be hobbled. If it just annoys the coach they should just be mercilessly made fun of by grown adults on a soccer forum.


Like it.....  Will there be some sort of lynching too?

Why are we even discussing this nonsense - BFD.

If coach doesn't like it, cut the kid and the family.  I won't be the first and definitely the last.  If player wants to do GK training with dad, go to a team where the coach encourages such a thing (I don't know of any but who knows....)

None of this has anything to do with the character of people involved.  Its just kids' soccer and its a matter of convenience and lack of trust by the dad, that the coach is not doing his kid right.  Nothing more.

Frankly, I pity the U14 kid who's forced to do keeper training with dear ol' dad.  Even if the dad was world class GK in his prime, the kid will get more from a coach who is not a parent.  While there are always exceptions, generally not the rule....


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## mirage (Feb 9, 2018)

Fact said:


> .....Soccer should be about development. And for
> 90+ percent that won't play in college, that development is Development  of the person's character.  Wait I take it back don't  cut them, bench them.  More powerful of a message.


Don't mean to nit pick but soccer is about playing the game.  And its more like 99% that won't play in college.  Ten percent would be a huge number of players in this country (roughly there are 3 million kids playing soccer in US and that would mean that 300,000 players in college soccer - NOT).

Why bench the kid and hurt the rest of the team?  He's the GK.  If they have only 1 keeper, make the team lose games without a GK....  I realize its unintended consequences but its one of those that require more situational awareness before giving an advise such as that.


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## coachrefparent (Feb 9, 2018)

mirage said:


> Don't mean to nit pick but soccer is about playing the game.  And its more like 99% that won't play in college.  Ten percent would be a huge number of players in this country (roughly there are 3 million kids playing soccer in US and that would mean that 300,000 players in college soccer - NOT).
> 
> Why bench the kid and hurt the rest of the team?  He's the GK.  If they have only 1 keeper, make the team lose games without a GK....  I realize its unintended consequences but its one of those that require more situational awareness before giving an advise such as that.


Bench him in an attempt to get him to change his behavior. Kick him off the team because he refuses to come to practice and lies to the coach about it. 

Seems simple enough to me.


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## GoldenFjord (Feb 9, 2018)

Nefutous said:


> Seems like most comments think the kid should not be penalized in this situation. So let's take it one step further.  Team is having a scrimmage in preparation for State Cup on a Saturday. Three weeks notice has been given that extra practices will take place on Saturdays in preparing for State Cup.  Kid says they cannot make it and it turns out that the kid is watching soccer games at another club.  As the coach do you say and do nothing, say nothing but bench kid for State Cup or kick kid off team now?  Assume same age as above. I am just wondering where everyone would draw the line.


On the one hand that is absolute bench-worthy behavior, on the other hand you need her on the field if you want to get out of the brackets. I’m a firm believer that behavior excused is behavior rewarded but here a moral victory will come at the cost of the game. 
End of the day you have to look at the team and decide for yourself. I think a BM belongs in the toilet and not the field but that’s just me.


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## soloyosh (Feb 9, 2018)

GoldenFjord said:


> On the one hand that is absolute bench-worthy behavior, on the other hand you need her on the field if you want to get out of the brackets. I’m a firm believer that behavior excused is behavior rewarded but here a moral victory will come at the cost of the game.
> End of the day you have to look at the team and decide for yourself. I think a BM belongs in the toilet and not the field but that’s just me.


Your post made me think of the last game of Men's World Cup Qualifying.  The US team's best available central defender was sitting on the bench for the last two games due to a spat with Arena.  I guess Arena proved his point?


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## Grace T. (Feb 9, 2018)

mirage said:


> Frankly, I pity the U14 kid who's forced to do keeper training with dear ol' dad.  Even if the dad was world class GK in his prime, the kid will get more from a coach who is not a parent.  While there are always exceptions, generally not the rule....


Amen to this.  I used to train my son in GK back in AYSO and EXTRAs...eventually he outgrew my ability to teach him with my middle school skills once he hit club. GK coaches see little things and little corrections which I just can't see with my eye and level of training.

But the secret too is I hated to do it....he doesn't listen to me like other coaches and its a constant fight with a kid who otherwise would dying to go out and play/practice.  I finally just swallowed it and decided to pay for PT (when he asks for it and we have the cash) from a GK trainer.  He'll still ask me from time to time to go work out for him...I'll secretly cringe and try not to.

Though to be fair to the dad...the vast majority of team coaches out there really don't know what they are doing with the goalkeeper either.


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## GoldenFjord (Feb 9, 2018)

On a lighter note I am quite glad to see the gang all reunited seeing as you guys know this much, shame the story you got had so much of it edited out.


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## Josep (Feb 9, 2018)

Bye bye.


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## coachrefparent (Feb 9, 2018)

soloyosh said:


> Your post made me think of the last game of Men's World Cup Qualifying.  The US team's best available central defender was sitting on the bench for the last two games due to a spat with Arena.  I guess Arena proved his point?


To claim that a 13 year old kid and his parents repeatedly lying to the coach and refusing to attend team practice is analogous to the MNT coach benching the "best" defender over a "spat" (presumably leading the team to not qualify for WC), is really stupid.


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## soloyosh (Feb 9, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> To claim that a 13 year old kid and his parents repeatedly lying to the coach and refusing to attend team practice is analogous to the MNT coach benching the "best" defender over a "spat" (presumably leading the team to not qualify for WC), is really stupid.


Didn't say "best defender," I said "best available defender."

It was in response to the "do you bench a problem player that is your best keeper in a state cup game" scenario.

Basically, if the coach has a problem with a player, do you bench them and potentially cost the team in a big tournament?


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## Josep (Feb 9, 2018)

The patriots left their best defensive player on the bench.  We saw how that worked out.


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## GoldenFjord (Feb 9, 2018)

Josep said:


> The patriots left their best defensive player on the bench.  We saw how that worked out.


With the utter chaos and destruction of philly. Pats were just playing the long game.


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## smellycleats (Feb 9, 2018)

GoldenFjord said:


> On the one hand that is absolute bench-worthy behavior, on the other hand you need her on the field if you want to get out of the brackets. I’m a firm believer that behavior excused is behavior rewarded but here a moral victory will come at the cost of the game.
> End of the day you have to look at the team and decide for yourself. I think a BM belongs in the toilet and not the field but that’s just me.


You are fecally fixated


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## SoccerFan4Life (Feb 10, 2018)

Reading the post again it feels like the coach did the right thing.  It also seems like the parent was not impressed with the training received by the coach.  
As a parent sometimes you need to do what you think is best for your child.  Goalies get minimal training with the team.    There's commitment to the team but it feels like the parent was getting ready to take the kid somewhere else.


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## Red Devil Fan (Feb 10, 2018)

What should a coach do to a player if, he finds out that a player is training 1 day a week with another team on a scheduled practice day with his current team that is preparing for State Cup?


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## Monkey (Feb 10, 2018)

smellycleats said:


> You are fecally fixated





GoldenFjord said:


> I have been accused of vulgarity.  I say BULLSHIT.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Feb 10, 2018)

Red Devil Fan said:


> What should a coach do to a player if, he finds out that a player is training 1 day a week with another team on a scheduled practice day with his current team that is preparing for State Cup?



Bench him if he is a starter.  If the kid is a bench player. The coach shouldn't be too upset.  Clearly the coach doesn't view the player as a starter. 

state cup should be played in December. That will take care of all of the end of year drama between kids looking around.


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## Monkey (Feb 10, 2018)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Bench him if he is a starter.  If the kid is a bench player. The coach shouldn't be too upset.  Clearly the coach doesn't view the player as a starter.
> 
> state cup should be played in December. That will take care of all of the end of year drama between kids looking around.


Agree with the first paragraph.  Disagree with the second.  A lot of people on this board talk about how moving up State Cup would solve all these problems.  No it would not solve anything.  All this BS would just be advanced a couple of months.


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## coachrefparent (Feb 10, 2018)

Monkey said:


> Agree with the first paragraph.  Disagree with the second.  A lot of people on this board talk about how moving up State Cup would solve all these problems.  No it would not solve anything.  All this BS would just be advanced a couple of months.


Possibly, but the fact that the players and teams would have much less free time on their hands, still playing in league, could reduce the amount of BS meaningfully.


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## RedCard (Feb 10, 2018)

Josep said:


> The patriots left their best defensive player on the bench.  We saw how that worked out.


Too soon..... (coming from a hardcore Patriots fan).....


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