# Two GK teams at older age groups/higher levels



## Dargle (Nov 23, 2020)

This has come up on the "Soccer only" thread in the Socal Scene section, but I figured it would make more sense to re-start it as a stand-alone topic in the Goalkeeper section.  

If you have high ability/aspirations, the number of teams dwindle as you go up the pyramid and most of the top teams (at least in the boys division) have multiple keepers.  Even if your kid is on an elite team as the sole GK, there is less loyalty or roster limitations at the higher levels and they can and will take on a strong GK at any time if they become available.  That means you can't easily "choose" to be the only GK and ensure that choice will be respected if you want to be at an elite team or in an elite league.

Given that reality, how does your GK make the best of the situation assuming they are hoping to get recruited for college play?  Obviously, you push to become the starter, but coaches may rotate regardless.


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## socalkdg (Nov 23, 2020)

If you are splitting playing time, then let each keeper play a full game.   Each keeper has their own style, they make adjustments as the game goes, and the team adjusts as well.   No sense screwing that up with a change at half time.

On the girls side I don't see that many elite keepers, so the question is what to do if you have an elite keeper and an average keeper, continue sharing time?   Plus I care as much about the keeper trainer for the club as I do about what team and coach my kid is playing with.  With our club if another keeper were needed on our team we borrow a lower level keeper from another age grouped team, or the coach likes to go with a strong defender with good foot skills over one of those keepers.

Here is the thing, we all hear that once kids get to U16 and higher, playing time is earned and goes to the best players, with no guarantees to play.   Why should a better goal keeper be splitting time when every other good player on the team gets 90% of the minutes.


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## keepr (Nov 23, 2020)

Goalkeepers have different qualities. For example on the team my son is on he is GK1, very vocal, team leader and well respected. At halftime GK2 goes in and everything changes, the Center Back now has to take charge as the GK2 is not very vocal and things always seem to go a little awry as the communication drops.


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## socalkdg (Nov 24, 2020)

How many keepers are there during keeper training?  My daughter trains with one other female (college sophomore from D1 school, starter) and two boys,  15 and 17, starters on premier teams.   The four of them have been training together for the last 6 months.   I think who they train with may be just as important as what team and how many keepers are on that team.


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## Grace T. (Nov 24, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> .
> How many keepers are there during keeper training?  My daughter trains with one other female (college sophomore from D1 school, starter) and two boys,  15 and 17, starters on premier teams.   The four of them have been training together for the last 6 months.   I think who they train with may be just as important as what team and how many keepers are on that team.


If you have a college sophomore in the GK training pod, that's not real club GK training right?  There are exceptions, but most of the time I've found the club GK training is subpar not because of the coaches, but because the GK trainer has to train to the weakest player, whoever that is.  The larger the pod, the worse the training.  It helps if the GK trainer separates the pods out by skill level, but sometimes that might not be practical because of the timing (unless the coaches are prepared to excuse the GK from team training).  If there are 2 GK on the same team, they might also be put on the same pod even though one of them is weaker (and then the weaker one will get most of the directed training).  Also once a week isn't going to cut it.  Far more important is picking the coach than the GK trainer.


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## Dargle (Nov 24, 2020)

In some of the bigger clubs, the GK training for MLS Next and/or ECNL keepers is often run separately from the regular club GK training, so the quality of the keepers and the type of instruction is higher-level. They sometimes do boys and girls GK training separately as well, in part to accommodate different practice schedules and locations for the teams.  All of this results in smaller groups for each session.  Club GK training is still more about reps than about teaching (which happens more in the private training that most higher-level GKs do), but there is definitely competition to excel at the club sessions since the GK trainers speak with the team coaches and sometimes attend games.


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## happy9 (Nov 24, 2020)

keepr said:


> Goalkeepers have different qualities. For example on the team my son is on he is GK1, very vocal, team leader and well respected. At halftime GK2 goes in and everything changes, *the Center Back now has to take charge as the GK2 is not very vocal and things always seem to go a little awry as the communication drops.*


This is the biggest issue with  having 2 keepers that are not at the same level.  Lesser keeper play impacts the behavior of the back line.  If your team builds out of the back and your defenders are part of forward  motion, it may eliminate that aspect of your style of play for an entire half.  

I don't have any statistics for it, but I would guess many winning top teams only roster 1 keeper and have a field player as back up. 

My preference is 1 keeper to preserve the continuity of the game.  Keepers don't develop as well or as quickly when older if they are only playing half of a game.


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## happy9 (Nov 24, 2020)

Dargle said:


> In some of the bigger clubs, the GK training for MLS Next and/or ECNL keepers is often run separately from the regular club GK training, so the quality of the keepers and the type of instruction is higher-level. They sometimes do boys and girls GK training separately as well, in part to accommodate different practice schedules and locations for the teams.  All of this results in smaller groups for each session.  Club GK training is still more about reps than about teaching (which happens more in the private training that most higher-level GKs do), but there is definitely competition to excel at the club sessions since the GK trainers speak with the team coaches and sometimes attend games.


Definitely a good idea to review a club's keeper program.  See how many go on to play at the next level.  Go and see if the keeper coach is hovering between games, checking on their keepers.  It's always good to see the keeper coach on the sideline.


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## Grace T. (Nov 24, 2020)

happy9 said:


> Definitely a good idea to review a club's keeper program.  See how many go on to play at the next level.  Go and see if the keeper coach is hovering between games, checking on their keepers.  It's always good to see the keeper coach on the sideline.


I agree it's important.  I just don't think on the lists you look for it is the most important thing.  Far more important is both the coach and playing style, followed by at the older ages the level of the team and ability to get college exposure.  If you can get the trifecta, plus be the sole boys keeper, more power to you....you've found nirvana.


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## socalkdg (Nov 24, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> If you have a college sophomore in the GK training pod, that's not real club GK training right?  There are exceptions, but most of the time I've found the club GK training is subpar not because of the coaches, but because the GK trainer has to train to the weakest player, whoever that is.  The larger the pod, the worse the training.  It helps if the GK trainer separates the pods out by skill level, but sometimes that might not be practical because of the timing (unless the coaches are prepared to excuse the GK from team training).  If there are 2 GK on the same team, they might also be put on the same pod even though one of them is weaker (and then the weaker one will get most of the directed training).  Also once a week isn't going to cut it.  Far more important is picking the coach than the GK trainer.


This is the club trainer.   Have three different pods,  3X per week.  This is the highest level pod.  4 players in this pod,  college keeper was with the club for 5 years so is always welcome.   Daughter loves training with her.  The four of them in this group have been training together for 6 months, talent pretty level across the board with the other three being better than my daughter.  Best 6 months of training she has had, grown in ability as well as height and muscle.   Completely different kid than a year ago when I thought she was really good then.  LOL.  She actually likes going to training and wouldn't miss it.  Needs games though to face different situations on the fly.


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## happy9 (Nov 24, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I agree it's important.  I just don't think on the lists you look for it is the most important thing.  Far more important is both the coach and playing style, followed by at the older ages the level of the team and ability to get college exposure.  If you can get the trifecta, plus be the sole boys keeper, more power to you....you've found nirvana.


Def not at the top but important to the DNA/culture assessment of the club.  I for one love watching our keeper coach ranting and raving on the sideline during a game.  It's even more fun to watch a keeper practice.


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## keepr (Nov 24, 2020)

Both GKs on our team hated going to the club trainer. It was a one and done deal for them. 

Luckily there are some awesome private trainers out there. Some of them have an excellent track record of GKs that have gone on to the next level, and beyond.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Nov 27, 2020)

If at all possible, you want 2 keepers who are at essentially the same level.  Their strengths and weaknesses can be different but the level should be essentially the same.  My daughter (an '05 sophomore) has played as the only keeper and in 2 keeper situations.  In the 2 keeper keeper situations she has had a shit show, manageable and even good situations.  Presently she is with a team with 2 keepers. The other keeper and my daughter are around the same level, but play a little differently.  The other keeper is quieter, a better shot blocker and stays on here line more.  My daughter is more vocal, and comes out more aggressively to break up the opportunity before it becomes a shot.  They like each other.  The get along.  They both work hard.  They respect each other.   She is in a good situation.  If she or the other keeper get hurt, can't travel, have an off day, the other keeper steps in with no disruption to the team. Maybe we are lucky as she is on a good team, but you don't want just 1 keeper at higher levels (IMO).  

PS Very few of the coaches know how to train, develop and manage keepers.


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## keepr (Nov 29, 2020)

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> PS Very few of the coaches know how to train, develop and manage keepers.


From our experience, very few is too many. Many teams overlook the goalkeeper, then rip them when it all goes to hell.


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## happy9 (Nov 30, 2020)

keepr said:


> From our experience, very few is too many. Many teams overlook the goalkeeper, then rip them when it all goes to hell.


Keeper discussions are always so interesting and varied.  High performing clubs have separate but equal focus on GK training (at least in my experience).  At the ECNL/GA/MLS level, poor keeper training and play is a recipe for disaster.  Finding good keepers is hard, finding two and playing them on the same team is really hard.  Playing 2 keepers can be detrimental to the development of the player and can disrupt the flow of the game.  

Both of my players play on the same club.  Keeper play is central to how the game flows and their training is considered just as important as field player training. 

Having and playing two keepers is one of the most polarizing things in youth soccer.  Keeper parents are passionate, and they should be.  GKing is hard.


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## keepr (Nov 30, 2020)

@happy9 I agree 100% with what you said. 

These are the threads I wish more coaches would read to better understand what may be the most important position on the field. I once was told by one of the top HS boys coaches that if he had to draft a team, a goalkeeper would be his first pick every time.


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## Grace T. (Nov 30, 2020)

@happy9 I agree 100% with what you said.

These are the threads I wish more coaches would read to better understand what may be the most important position on the field. I once was told by one of the top HS boys coaches that if he had to draft a team, a goalkeeper would be his first pick every time.
[/QUOTE]

It's been a bit since I've read them, but IIRC according to Soccernomics, the GK is not the most important position on the field.  That overwhelming goes to the striker and the CM.  Statistically a marquee striker or CM can really make an impact on the team, which is why those translate into the highest money.  It is absolutely vital to have a competent goalkeeper and a "bad" (what a "bad" goalkeeper is subject to argument) can make an impact on the team.  But the Soccernomics theory is that the value of a player is translated into their worth on the open market, and GKs just don't have as much salary and transfer pull as a marquee striker or CM.  

The Zlatan/Chicarito thing is illustrative if you look at the LA Galaxy.  For the flip side, De Gea and Manchester.


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## happy9 (Nov 30, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> @happy9 I agree 100% with what you said.
> 
> These are the threads I wish more coaches would read to better understand what may be the most important position on the field. I once was told by one of the top HS boys coaches that if he had to draft a team, a goalkeeper would be his first pick every time.


It's been a bit since I've read them, but IIRC according to Soccernomics, the GK is not the most important position on the field.  That overwhelming goes to the striker and the CM.  Statistically a marquee striker or CM can really make an impact on the team, which is why those translate into the highest money.  It is absolutely vital to have a competent goalkeeper and a "bad" (what a "bad" goalkeeper is subject to argument) can make an impact on the team.  But the Soccernomics theory is that the value of a player is translated into their worth on the open market, and GKs just don't have as much salary and transfer pull as a marquee striker or CM. 

The Zlatan/Chicarito thing is illustrative if you look at the LA Galaxy.  For the flip side, De Gea and Manchester.
[/QUOTE]
No doubt that a GK isn't the draw for a team and doesn't put butts in seats.  Center Backs/defenders suffer the same fate.  Successful coaches build teams starting from the back, similar to football -> offensive line, gotta draft that unicorn left guard to protect the QB's blind side.


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## Grace T. (Nov 30, 2020)

happy9 said:


> No doubt that a GK isn't the draw for a team and doesn't put butts in seats.  Center Backs/defenders suffer the same fate.  Successful coaches build teams starting from the back, similar to football -> offensive line, gotta draft that unicorn left guard to protect the QB's blind side.


This definitely has been true of the US Men's National Team in all its recent incarnations), but it's definitely not true of either UK or the US pro teams.  Rarely in the MLS is the goalkeeper a DP, and because of the salary caps, the goalkeeper is usually someone they are trying to fill in that's good enough, usually in an after thought after the team has been put in place, whether anchored on Zlatan, Chicarito, or Vela.  When teams have tried to build around a goalkeeper DP, whether M'Bolhi or Howard, it rarely goes well.  Same with the EPL...you don't see coaches starting to build based on a goalkeeper, particularly not in the last 10 years,  MU being the obvious exception.  One of the reasons why is the GK performance (being largely mental) can be erratic and to build a team around such a skiff of paper (which might easily need to be replaced.....see even the talk at Mu about replacing de Gea from time to time) is not the best solution for long term growth.  Soccereconomics made the case that goalkeepers don't get the big payout not because of their draw, but because their impact on the game (in comparison of 1 GK to another lesser GK) just isn't as much as a the CAM or the striker.  The calculation is different on a lead center back, and less so for a needed RB or LB....most recently Van Damme holding a DP spot for the LA Galaxy.


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## happy9 (Dec 1, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> This definitely has been true of the US Men's National Team in all its recent incarnations), but it's definitely not true of either UK or the US pro teams.  Rarely in the MLS is the goalkeeper a DP, and because of the salary caps, the goalkeeper is usually someone they are trying to fill in that's good enough, usually in an after thought after the team has been put in place, whether anchored on Zlatan, Chicarito, or Vela.  When teams have tried to build around a goalkeeper DP, whether M'Bolhi or Howard, it rarely goes well.  Same with the EPL...you don't see coaches starting to build based on a goalkeeper, particularly not in the last 10 years,  MU being the obvious exception.  One of the reasons why is the GK performance (being largely mental) can be erratic and to build a team around such a skiff of paper (which might easily need to be replaced.....see even the talk at Mu about replacing de Gea from time to time) is not the best solution for long term growth.  Soccereconomics made the case that goalkeepers don't get the big payout not because of their draw, but because their impact on the game (in comparison of 1 GK to another lesser GK) just isn't as much as a the CAM or the striker.  The calculation is different on a lead center back, and less so for a needed RB or LB....most recently Van Damme holding a DP spot for the LA Galaxy.


I'm really talking about top tier youth teams and college, where money isn't the driving factor and winning is everything.  In the world of professionals, butts in seats is the driving factor.  No one watches Man City because of Ederson.


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## socalkdg (Dec 1, 2020)

Was talking to the DOC last night, who is a big believer in keepers and loves my daughter, and he mentioned an advantage of two keepers that I hadn't thought of.   Pregame warmup.   The keeper not starting is the perfect partner to get the starter ready for the current game.

Jeff Tackett in his newsletter mentioned the importance of a consistent pregame warmup and my daughter started doing that this past weekend at a tourney in Az.  I mentioned to one of the coaches that she needed 15 minutes and that she would let him know what she wanted to do during that time.   They did that in the 3 games this weekend.

A few other firsts from this weekend.   My daughter started taking free kicks that were outside the 18 all the way up to the center circle.   With the wind at her back she also drop kicked a ball about 75 yards took a bounce, went off the keepers hands and gave us a corner kick.  Need to work on her accuracy.      Lastly we were down 2-0 with little time left and she went into the other teams box to try and score on a throw in.  Unfortunately the whistle blew before the throw in.   Very funny to see how reluctant she was to go into the box.   So nice to play soccer.


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## Grace T. (Dec 1, 2020)

happy9 said:


> I'm really talking about top tier youth teams and college, where money isn't the driving factor and winning is everything.  In the world of professionals, butts in seats is the driving factor.  No one watches Man City because of Ederson.


agree but in the us the top tier youth teams are the mls academies. There they have their favorites they’ve id’d early on to give a shot for the first team and the rest that fill out the roster.  Since gks have a long life it’s just 1 or 2 across all their age groups. money is the driving factor

for the girls side and college yes I agree


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## Eagle33 (Dec 1, 2020)

Dargle said:


> This has come up on the "Soccer only" thread in the Socal Scene section, but I figured it would make more sense to re-start it as a stand-alone topic in the Goalkeeper section.
> 
> If you have high ability/aspirations, the number of teams dwindle as you go up the pyramid and most of the top teams (at least in the boys division) have multiple keepers.  Even if your kid is on an elite team as the sole GK, there is less loyalty or roster limitations at the higher levels and they can and will take on a strong GK at any time if they become available.  That means you can't easily "choose" to be the only GK and ensure that choice will be respected if you want to be at an elite team or in an elite league.
> 
> Given that reality, how does your GK make the best of the situation assuming they are hoping to get recruited for college play?  Obviously, you push to become the starter, but coaches may rotate regardless.


From GK individual standpoint as well as GK parent of course he/she wants to be the starting and/or the only keeper. However, in real world it's impossible to have 1 keeper (specially on elite team) from team or coach's standpoint. Ideally, you would have a field player capable to fill-in in case GK is injured, Red carded, etc. and this way you can have the only GK. This player must be capable and willing. If you have this - great, but most elite teams will have 2 or more GK's. Now how they split time and how to keep them happy is up to your coach. 
As far as recruiting process (speaking from personal experience), it's important to get on a team with high visibility for college coaches (participating in college showcases, attending ID camps, playing in Elite circuit - DA (in the past), ECNL, CRL, etc.). Communication is The Key to recruiting success. GK must have video available and not just a highlight reel, but combination of skills breakdown - distribution, shot stopping, corner kicks, 1v1, punts/goal kicks, etc.


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## Mystery Train (Dec 1, 2020)

Last year I posted a rant about how poorly club coaches typically handle multiple keeper situations.  It's true that at the older levels, particularly the last two years of club, you rarely see top level teams with a single keeper.  

My kid was the only keeper for the vast majority of her youth career from U11-U16.  Her last two years, U17 & 18, (ECNL) she had to share time, although measured by playing time, she was still the #1.  In her last season, there were even 3 keepers on the team.  All 3 were excellent, roughly the same level of player, but with different strengths.  As it turned out with injuries, ACT tests, etc., the team never had all 3 in uniform for a single game.  So for sure, a top level team is always going to strive to have at minimum 2 quality keepers.  

My kids' coach did an admirable job keeping them rotating as far as pure minutes goes, but I always wished that he had handled it a little differently. He let them work out an alternating halves schedule, and then every now and then, when his gut told him to make a change in the pre-arranged schedule, he would.  In my opinion, a keeper needs to know their role and prepare for it.  Instead of rotating and changing up who is the starter and who is the finisher week to week and deciding this just before the game, a keeper needs plenty of advance notice and prep as either the starter or the finisher.  Or better yet, designate one for an entire game and alternate games.  Because the mental state of mind of a keeper is the most critical psyche on the field to ensure is in the right place, you've got to have lots of prediction and advance notice.  If you know you're the #1, or you know for sure that week you're the #2, it allows you to prepare yourself mentally for that role in the best way possible.  Several times, her coach adjusted on the fly, usually to the benefit of my daughter's playing time, but every time he did, it kind of wrecked the other keeper and made my daughter have to re-frame her expectations as well.   To the coach's credit, his calls in that regard ended up paying off in a win, but it also brought some negatives because it screwed with the chemistry.  I'm not sure if that's a big deal in the boys' game, but in the girls' game, team chemistry is HUGE.  The biggest factor for success in splitting time is if the keepers get along.  If they don't, it will suck.  If they do, they can be a support system for each other.

As others have said here, the way a defense reacts to a particular keeper is an important and, IHMO, the most underrated quality of a keeper.  Warning, brag ahead... My DD's defense always played better with her in the pipes during those two years of splitting time.  The other keepers could do some things athletically that mine couldn't, and always looked more amazing in warm ups.  But the team's record with each in goal spoke for itself.  Luckily for my kid, our coach recognized that and when it came to crunch time, usually gave her the call.  

Interestingly, I found that splitting time did not really affect the recruitment of any of the team's keepers very much.  There were a couple of times in showcases where a coach recruiting one of them showed up for the wrong half, but other than that, all three got exactly the kind of looks they needed to get recruited.  Ultimately, they all ended up where they were meant to be and were better for the experience of sharing time and learning how to navigate the ups and downs together.


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## momofgk (Dec 1, 2020)

Mystery Train said:


> Last year I posted a rant about how poorly club coaches typically handle multiple keeper situations.  It's true that at the older levels, particularly the last two years of club, you rarely see top level teams with a single keeper.
> 
> My kid was the only keeper for the vast majority of her youth career from U11-U16.  Her last two years, U17 & 18, (ECNL) she had to share time, although measured by playing time, she was still the #1.  In her last season, there were even 3 keepers on the team.  All 3 were excellent, roughly the same level of player, but with different strengths.  As it turned out with injuries, ACT tests, etc., the team never had all 3 in uniform for a single game.  So for sure, a top level team is always going to strive to have at minimum 2 quality keepers.
> 
> ...


Also, no way there will only be a single GK on a college team, so multiple gks helps them learn to compete with each other for time and also support one another.  IMO


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## espola (Dec 1, 2020)

momofgk said:


> Also, no way there will only be a single GK on a college team, so multiple gks helps them learn to compete with each other for time and also support one another.  IMO


When my son started play at UC Davis some years ago, there were 4 keepers listed on the pre-season roster - a Senior who had been the primary keeper the year before, a red-shirt Sophomore, a true Sophomore walkon , and a Freshman.  By the first game, the Sophomore had decided he wasn't going to get much game time so he dropped out.  A few games into the season, both of the older players were taken out by injuries (a concussion and a shoulder, but I don't remember which was which).  The Freshman ended playing about half the GKminutes that year, and was the default starter the next three.


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## happy9 (Dec 1, 2020)

momofgk said:


> Also, no way there will only be a single GK on a college team, so multiple gks helps them learn to compete with each other for time and also support one another.  IMO


It's in the best interest of a college to have multiple keepers.  They are insulated from parents and aren't required to give everyone minutes.  Throw in a few extra keepers, more tuition dollars.  Some will eventually quit because they aren't playing- they'll recruit more keepers.

Youth teams are different - you have to factor in parents and playing time.  In my experience, the surliest parents on the sidelines are the keeper parents, especially if there are two and one keeper gets minimal if any minutes.  I don't mean that in a disrespectful manner,  it's hard being a keeper and a keeper parent.  Even harder when you aren't playing many minutes but still traveling. I know there are others with the opposite experience, just sharing mine.

But love the soccer discussion.


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## Soccer1Bball5 (Dec 1, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> Was talking to the DOC last night, who is a big believer in keepers and loves my daughter, and he mentioned an advantage of two keepers that I hadn't thought of.   Pregame warmup.   The keeper not starting is the perfect partner to get the starter ready for the current game.
> 
> Jeff Tackett in his newsletter mentioned the importance of a consistent pregame warmup and my daughter started doing that this past weekend at a tourney in Az.  I mentioned to one of the coaches that she needed 15 minutes and that she would let him know what she wanted to do during that time.   They did that in the 3 games this weekend.
> 
> A few other firsts from this weekend.   My daughter started taking free kicks that were outside the 18 all the way up to the center circle.   With the wind at her back she also drop kicked a ball about 75 yards took a bounce, went off the keepers hands and gave us a corner kick.  Need to work on her accuracy.      Lastly we were down 2-0 with little time left and she went into the other teams box to try and score on a throw in.  Unfortunately the whistle blew before the throw in.   Very funny to see how reluctant she was to go into the box.   So nice to play soccer.


Agree on the warmup. My son had to leave after the first half. I thought he was going to pickup his stuff and leave right away. But on his own, he stayed to warmup the other keeper and left after the 2nd half started.


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## Grace T. (Dec 2, 2020)

happy9 said:


> In my experience, the surliest parents on the sidelines are the keeper parents, especially if there are two and one keeper gets minimal if any minutes.  I don't mean that in a disrespectful manner,  it's hard being a keeper and a keeper parent.  Even harder when you aren't playing many minutes but still traveling. I know there are others with the opposite experience, just sharing mine.


That’s why splitting doesn’t really work if the keepers aren’t similarly placed.  If the 2nd keeper isn’t getting a lot of minutes it’s because there’s a very clear discrepancy in skills, at least as far as that teams system is concerned (The keeper could for example be very good with the backpass but the coaches just want the ball booted).

On a Younger’s team this means you pretty much have to move.  If the senior keeper takes their training seriously (eg training more than once a week) it’s going to be virtually impossible for the weaker keeper to catch up (by the time the weaker keeper masters a basic skill the senior keeper has mastered an advanced one). Sure ideally the coach should develop them both but that’s really hard to justify to the other parents if it means sacrificing the win to develop the weaker keeper. The only real exception to this is if the kid is new to keeping...maybe he’ll be a natural and a quick study or maybe she’s just looking for an introduction and plans to move on the following year. Otherwise, unless the senior keeper isn’t taking it seriously or plans to move, it’s hard to see how the situation is worth it. Some parents though can be reluctant to move if it means stepping down a level but all the gk coaches I’ve interacted with have said at the younger level playtime, not team rank, is vital. 

on the senior level the choice is whether the exposure or credential is enough to overcome the lack of playtime. The less minutes the worse the trade off.  The lower the level of the team the worse the trade off.


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## Eagle33 (Dec 2, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> That’s why splitting doesn’t really work if the keepers aren’t similarly placed.  If the 2nd keeper isn’t getting a lot of minutes it’s because there’s a very clear discrepancy in skills, at least as far as that teams system is concerned (The keeper could for example be very good with the backpass but the coaches just want the ball booted).
> 
> On a Younger’s team this means you pretty much have to move.  If the senior keeper takes their training seriously (eg training more than once a week) it’s going to be virtually impossible for the weaker keeper to catch up (by the time the weaker keeper masters a basic skill the senior keeper has mastered an advanced one). Sure ideally the coach should develop them both but that’s really hard to justify to the other parents if it means sacrificing the win to develop the weaker keeper. The only real exception to this is if the kid is new to keeping...maybe he’ll be a natural and a quick study or maybe she’s just looking for an introduction and plans to move on the following year. Otherwise, unless the senior keeper isn’t taking it seriously or plans to move, it’s hard to see how the situation is worth it. Some parents though can be reluctant to move if it means stepping down a level but all the gk coaches I’ve interacted with have said at the younger level playtime, not team rank, is vital.
> 
> on the senior level the choice is whether the exposure or credential is enough to overcome the lack of playtime. The less minutes the worse the trade off.  The lower the level of the team the worse the trade off.


You are correct at younger level it is different, but we are discussing olders. 
GK is very independent position and requires specialized training which 99% of team coaches will not provide. You are lucky if your team coach can do this. Therefore, it's important to get on an Elite team, which in most cases will have a dedicated GK trainer. Splitting time at high level is not a common practice. Best GK should be playing and 2nd best should be competing for the spot. That's how it works in a real world (not pay-to-play soccer).
It is common misconception that level is not important and, as you said, many coaches will tell you exactly the opposite to get your kid to play for them. Letting in 5-6 goals every game because you have no defense in front of you does nothing for GK confidence, but saving that 1 and only shot on goal playing for the good team does everything. BTW Confidence is 90% trade of a GK profile.


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## dad4 (Dec 2, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> You are correct at younger level it is different, but we are discussing olders.
> GK is very independent position and requires specialized training which 99% of team coaches will not provide. You are lucky if your team coach can do this. Therefore, it's important to get on an Elite team, which in most cases will have a dedicated GK trainer. Splitting time at high level is not a common practice. Best GK should be playing and 2nd best should be competing for the spot. That's how it works in a real world (not pay-to-play soccer).
> It is common misconception that level is not important and, as you said, many coaches will tell you exactly the opposite to get your kid to play for them. Letting in 5-6 goals every game because you have no defense in front of you does nothing for GK confidence, but saving that 1 and only shot on goal playing for the good team does everything. BTW Confidence is 90% trade of a GK profile.


Why would anyone pay for their child to be in the 2nd GK spot with no playing time?  Spending thousands of dollars and skipping school to travel but not play?  

Seems a waste of time and money.  If the club coach thinks you aren’t good enough to put in a game, why would the D1 coach think any differently?


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## Grace T. (Dec 2, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Why would anyone pay for their child to be in the 2nd GK spot with no playing time?  Spending thousands of dollars and skipping school to travel but not play?
> 
> Seems a waste of time and money.  If the club coach thinks you aren’t good enough to put in a game, why would the D1 coach think any differently?


If the team is high enough (e.g., an olders MLS academy), the 2nd keeper might be chasing the dragon...hoping if the 1st has a bad slump or injury, they might be able to prove themselves either to the academy team or a team overseas.  In that case there's some value to be traded off the LAFC name, for example, if you are willing to go play for a 2ndary team in Estonia.  But more often than not, it's just chasing the dragon.  But for college, in Jeff's latest newsletter he highlights that the most important thing is you must be playing.

p.s. when it goes badly among the boys, from what I've seen it generally starts with who deserves the number 1 on their jersey.


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## Eagle33 (Dec 3, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Why would anyone pay for their child to be in the 2nd GK spot with no playing time?  Spending thousands of dollars and skipping school to travel but not play?
> 
> Seems a waste of time and money.  If the club coach thinks you aren’t good enough to put in a game, why would the D1 coach think any differently?


D1 coaches don't look for 2nd keepers. But D2, D3, NAIA, JC do. Normally 2nd keepers get a chance to play at showcases. That's what actually showcases are for - doesn't' mean much, except for everyone to get a chance to play in front of a college coach. There are also Id camps.


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## Mystery Train (Dec 3, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> D1 coaches don't look for 2nd keepers. But D2, D3, NAIA, JC do. Normally 2nd keepers get a chance to play at showcases. That's what actually showcases are for - doesn't' mean much, except for everyone to get a chance to play in front of a college coach. There are also Id camps.


Just an anecdote, but I personally know of three ECNL teams that had 2nd keepers that all signed to play D1.  Generally, I agree with what you're saying, but it's also important to know that there's lots of options for good keepers, even the "back up" on a really high level team.  

Not to hijack this thread, as we're talking about splitting time in club, but with regards to college recruiting opportunities, I think we tend to oversimplify the conversation when we talk about D1, 2, 3, etc.  There's not a clean delineation of programs between the different divisions.  Not every D1 opportunity is better than every D2 or D3 or even NAIA opportunity just because it's "D1."   Here's a real world example:  ECNL keeper for a solid performing team got playing offers at several D1 schools, including two Power 5 programs (PAC 12 & Big10) but no athletic $, and little academic $... so the cost equation with limited chance of early playing time meant these weren't attractive to that player and family.  A religious mid-western D1 school offered with significant athletic $, but location wasn't desirable and not good fit for player's academic profile.  Had a full ride offer from a JuCo and opportunity to start immediately, player didn't like location or the idea of going JuCo (though this might be ideal for some families and students).  Had varying offers from D2 schools, and chose one with significant athletic $, low-cost in-state tuition, and opportunity to play early.  But that's very specific to one player's preferences.  Some kids are adventurous and don't want to stay in-state.  Some have just one dream school and everything else pales in comparison.  

You hope your player ends up choosing the opportunity with the best combination of location, coach/culture, academic profile, playing opportunity and cost, but of course, you never know what you're getting into.  Just check out the verbal/psychological abuse allegations from former players at Cal's women's soccer team.  The open letter from their former keeper should be required reading for kids and parents chasing that "Division 1 Soccer Dream."  (see below)

As for splitting time, and getting recruited, the point I'm trying to make is that there are so many variables to consider, it's impossible to make a blanket statement about "never" playing as the 2nd keeper in a club.  

https://www.ktvu.com/news/surviving-the-game-ktvu-investigates-allegations-of-abuse-in-cals-soccer-program


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## happy9 (Dec 3, 2020)

Mystery Train said:


> *I think we tend to oversimplify the conversation when we talk about D1, 2, 3, etc.  There's not a clean delineation of programs between the different divisions.  Not every D1 opportunity is better than every D2 or D3 or even NAIA opportunity just because it's "D1."*


When players and parents finally figure this out, it reduces all of the self imposed anxiety associated with the process and it becomes fun for the whole family.  Cannot be overemphasized enough


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## socalkdg (Dec 3, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Letting in 5-6 goals every game because you have no defense in front of you does nothing for GK confidence, but saving that 1 and only shot on goal playing for the good team does everything. BTW Confidence is 90% trade of a GK profile.


Any keeper that loses confidence giving up goals shouldn't be a keeper.   Each goal, each shot, is an opportunity to learn.  There are so many different situations that can't be recreated in keeper training that need game time situations.  

We are a good team that has played some great teams(ECNL). I watch the other keeper get 3 saves, 2 of which were right to her, with one difficult save, plus giving up one goal.  Maybe 5-6 distribution chances.  

We give up 2 goals a half and lose 4-1.  2nd half we go to 3 in the back line instead of 4 since we are down 2-0 and put another up top.  For those 4 goals two were upper left or right corners just inside the bar, no chance last year, maybe a better one this year since she grew a couple inches, one is saving two point blank shots but having the 3rd go in because no help to clear, and the 4th is a cross that maybe she could have deflected better but no defense was in the middle to clear.   She also made about 10 saves, had 15 distribution chances, and tons of learning opportunities on crosses, set plays, corners, bad pass backs, etc.    Video it all and she can discuss with her keeper coach and continue to learn and gain experience.


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## Keepermom2 (Dec 4, 2020)

I love these conversations from you experienced folk because it truly helps me and makes me see my own questions about things are normal.  

From a youth soccer perspective, I have found that I would rather my daughter be on a team that she shares the position than a team where she is the sole Keeper as a result of how the coach teaches the game and what she stands to gain in knowledge.    I have recently found that coach but of course he used to be a Keeper in college.   She just received her first evaluation after 4 years in club soccer.  It was well thought out and hit the nail on the head for her.  She left the meeting motivated and feeling good.  He handled that evaluation better than most business professionals I have seen.   He is what I expected all coaches in club soccer would be when we embarked on club soccer....passionate about development of the individual.  Boy was I naive!!!!  Of course most of you that are responding are or have been involved with ECNL or DA.  Maybe it is different.


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## kickingandscreaming (Dec 4, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> From GK individual standpoint as well as GK parent of course he/she wants to be the starting and/or the only keeper. However, in real world it's impossible to have 1 keeper (specially on elite team) from team or coach's standpoint. Ideally, you would have a field player capable to fill-in in case GK is injured, Red carded, etc. and this way you can have the only GK. This player must be capable and willing. If you have this - great, but most elite teams will have 2 or more GK's. Now how they split time and how to keep them happy is up to your coach.
> As far as recruiting process (speaking from personal experience), it's important to get on a team with high visibility for college coaches (participating in college showcases, attending ID camps, playing in Elite circuit - DA (in the past), ECNL, CRL, etc.). Communication is The Key to recruiting success. GK must have video available and not just a highlight reel, but combination of skills breakdown - distribution, shot stopping, corner kicks, 1v1, punts/goal kicks, etc.


One of the families we know has their keeper/daughter play as an ECNL Discovery Player as well as on her local NPL team (non-ECNL). In some ways, it's the best of both worlds. She gets exposure at the ECNL level and splits games with our non-discovery goalie and she gets to play full time with her local team. It also allows the other ECNL keeper to get full games in NPL. Another "benefit" is that her local team doesn't play defense at the level of the ECNL team. Actual game work is nice to have and she typically gets more than twice the actual work/touches that she does with her ECNL team. I like the idea of having a goalie play regularly on a team that doesn't dominate. It presents many opportunities to go to the back of the net, get the ball, and re-set their mind. Keepers may not be the highest paid, but I'd argue that they need the highest level of mental toughness to thrive.


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## Grace T. (Dec 4, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> One of the families we know has their keeper/daughter play as an ECNL Discovery Player as well as on her local NPL team (non-ECNL). In some ways, it's the best of both worlds. She gets exposure at the ECNL level and splits games with our non-discovery goalie and she gets to play full time with her local team. It also allows the other ECNL keeper to get full games in NPL. Another "benefit" is that her local team doesn't play defense at the level of the ECNL team. Actual game work is nice to have and she typically gets more than twice the actual work/touches that she does with her ECNL team. I like the idea of having a goalie play regularly on a team that doesn't dominate. It presents many opportunities to go to the back of the net, get the ball, and re-set their mind. Keepers may not be the highest paid, but I'd argue that they need the highest level of mental toughness to thrive.


I wrote this story before.  My son's best experience ever was once a new team that was having only it's second game they were placed against a silver elite team making a run for gold.  By the end of the game he had taken something obscene like 30-40 shots on goal and the score was 9-1.  Almost all of them that went in were over his head or a 1-2 or 1-2-3 combinations.  I was filming from the other side (it was a Sunday league and the teams were both largely hispanic so everyone was on friendly terms) and I kept hearing comments like "look at that little keeper" or "oh my god".  When it was over the parents on the other team stood up and applauded him and yelled "porterito!".  He grew more that day that on the entire previous year with another team that eventually won the state cup.


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## Mystery Train (Dec 4, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> He is what I expected all coaches in club soccer would be when we embarked on club soccer....passionate about development of the individual. Boy was I naive!!!! Of course most of you that are responding are or have been involved with ECNL or DA. Maybe it is different.


Nope.  No different at all.  LOL  In fact, I would say that the coaches who do the best job at developing individual players can be found more often at the lower levels because they're less focused on winning.  The "higher" level leagues generally attract win-at-all-cost coaches whose greatest skill is identifying and recruiting talented players.  There's always exceptions, of course, but I can confidently say your kid should stick with a coach like that no matter what league it is.


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## socalkdg (Dec 5, 2020)

With a goalkeeper it takes a village to train them.   Good and bad teams, regular coaches and keeper coaches.  Private training and keeper camps.   

My daughter has had multiple chances to move teams that may have been "better".    She loves her current keeper coach thus wants to see him 3x a week.  She loves her teammates thus wants to practice with them 2X a week and play a game with them every weekend.   We have a great DOC that had her guest playing with the 02 team last year as an 05, plus spent an hour talking to her and us after a game about the game.   We plan on attending ID camps where she can show off her skills compared to Big Club keepers.


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## Grace T. (Dec 5, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> With a goalkeeper it takes a village to train them.   Good and bad teams, regular coaches and keeper coaches.  Private training and keeper camps.
> 
> My daughter has had multiple chances to move teams that may have been "better".    She loves her current keeper coach thus wants to see him 3x a week.  She loves her teammates thus wants to practice with them 2X a week and play a game with them every weekend.   We have a great DOC that had her guest playing with the 02 team last year as an 05, plus spent an hour talking to her and us after a game about the game.   We plan on attending ID camps where she can show off her skills compared to Big Club keepers.


One of the issues too is that to get a well rounded education you can’t be doing keeper training just once a week (it’s not enough since there’s too much to train) or with one person (since their emphasis may be really different). The problem is there are a whole bunch of coaches (including some keeper coaches) that either don’t know how to teach or don’t know about goalkeeper technique/tactics/conditioning. It forces gk parents to become semi experts in gking because they need to be able to sort out quality instruction from the garbage and make sure all areas of the keeper’s growth are being addressed and to sometimes help them reconcile  conflicting information (at least til they are old enough to do it themselves).


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## Keepermom2 (Dec 5, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> One of the issues too is that to get a well rounded education you can’t be doing keeper training just once a week (it’s not enough since there’s too much to train) or with one person (since their emphasis may be really different). The problem is there are a whole bunch of coaches (including some keeper coaches) that either don’t know how to teach or don’t know about goalkeeper technique/tactics/conditioning. It forces gk parents to become semi experts in gking because they need to be able to sort out quality instruction from the garbage and make sure all areas of the keeper’s growth are being addressed and to sometimes help them reconcile  conflicting information (at least til they are old enough to do it themselves).


Agree 100% especially with the reconciliation part.


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## Keepermom2 (Dec 5, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> With a goalkeeper it takes a village to train them.   Good and bad teams, regular coaches and keeper coaches.  Private training and keeper camps.
> 
> My daughter has had multiple chances to move teams that may have been "better".    She loves her current keeper coach thus wants to see him 3x a week.  She loves her teammates thus wants to practice with them 2X a week and play a game with them every weekend.   We have a great DOC that had her guest playing with the 02 team last year as an 05, plus spent an hour talking to her and us after a game about the game.   We plan on attending ID camps where she can show off her skills compared to Big Club keepers.


Agree with your comment about it taking a village.  I have often wished that I could just go to one person and they could direct her in her development.

You seem to have a great situation and not one you would leave easily.  I have heard goalkeepers are a bit different from other players and you don't need to be in the elite leagues to get noticed by college recruiters because of ID Camps etc.  I didn't know how true that was.


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## socalkdg (Dec 6, 2020)

Keepermom2 said:


> Agree with your comment about it taking a village.  I have often wished that I could just go to one person and they could direct her in her development.
> 
> You seem to have a great situation and not one you would leave easily.  I have heard goalkeepers are a bit different from other players and you don't need to be in the elite leagues to get noticed by college recruiters because of ID Camps etc.  I didn't know how true that was.


First, we have it easier than most to get film of our kids.   I tripod my Iphone 11 and focus on one end of the field.   Also video some practice sessions. Showcase helps, but considering how few touches your kid might get during a game, you just don't know.   ID camps are very important, especially if your kid looks the part and then performs.  

My biggest problem right now is more game footage, and actually have my kid think about what colleges she wants to go to.    We have UCLA(duh), PLNU(because her sister goes there and the field overlooks the ocean), and Cal Baptist(because she loves the food there).  She heard on a comercial that Grand Canyon University had two Chick-Fil-A and all of a sudden she became interested.  Crazy kids.   Need to expand that list to 15-20, but I can't even get her to wear her retainer, so getting more school thoughts may take a while.


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## SoccerFan6 (Dec 7, 2020)

I appreciate everyone's insightful comments here.  I really enjoy coming on a soccer forum and finding a thread that discusses soccer issues.

In this instance, I think it really depends on what your endgame is.  If it is to play in college, then yes, you need as much playing time as possible.  You get better by being on the field and you get more exposure being on the field.  If your child doesn't have those aspirations, I think two keepers and split playing time can be a good thing.  Other than the top 1%, kids play sports to have some fun, get some exercise, and learn life lessons.  There are a lot of life lessons that can be learned by competing with another keeper: Hard work to earn playing time.  Learning to get along with and be friends with someone who you are competing with.  Rooting for your competition to do well because it is best for the team, although it may hurt you personally.  And so many more....

My keeper is 12 and hasn't hit a growth spirt yet, so I'm not sure if there is college soccer in the future or not.  But, if some of the lessons above can be learned early through having two keepers, it's a win.


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## Mystery Train (Dec 7, 2020)

SoccerFan6 said:


> I appreciate everyone's insightful comments here.  I really enjoy coming on a soccer forum and finding a thread that discusses soccer issues.
> 
> In this instance, I think it really depends on what your endgame is.  If it is to play in college, then yes, you need as much playing time as possible.  You get better by being on the field and you get more exposure being on the field.  If your child doesn't have those aspirations, I think two keepers and split playing time can be a good thing.   There are a lot of life lessons that can be learned by competing with another keeper: Hard work to earn playing time.  Learning to get along with and be friends with someone who you are competing with.  Rooting for your competition to do well because it is best for the team, although it may hurt you personally.  And so many more....
> 
> My keeper is 12 and hasn't hit a growth spirt yet, so I'm not sure if there is college soccer in the future or not.  But, if some of the lessons above can be learned early through having two keepers, it's a win.


Without a doubt, the GK forum is the most pleasant, soccer focused, and helpful section on SoCalSoccer.  I think it's because GK parents already have to deal with too much insanity as it is just being a keeper parent to bother with any more of it on a soccer forum.   

It's easy to loose sight of what is most important for our kids when we focus too much on results, whether that result is winning a game, or being named the starter, or playing in college.  When you said, "kids play sports to have some fun, get some exercise, and learn life lessons." it hits me much differently today in 2020 as a parent of kids dealing with remote classes and the cancellation of all sports activities than it would have a few years ago.   Seeing how unpredictable life can be and seeing how fleeting the chance is to play soccer at a high level, it makes it all the more critical that when youth soccer resumes, everyone puts their focus on the fun, the camaraderie, the life lessons, and the joy of physical competition.  I'm thinking of all the college and HS seniors who didn't know they'd played their last soccer game a year ago, all the incoming freshmen next year who don't know if they'll ever have a shot at the opportunities that existed when they started playing youth soccer, and all the youth soccer parents who missed out on their kids' final seasons before adulthood... it's cliché, but oh so true:  You really have to live in the moment and enjoy the process no matter where it takes you.  Good luck to you and your player!


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## Eagle33 (Dec 7, 2020)

SoccerFan6 said:


> I appreciate everyone's insightful comments here.  I really enjoy coming on a soccer forum and finding a thread that discusses soccer issues.
> 
> In this instance, I think it really depends on what your endgame is.  If it is to play in college, then yes, you need as much playing time as possible.  You get better by being on the field and you get more exposure being on the field.  If your child doesn't have those aspirations, I think two keepers and split playing time can be a good thing.  Other than the top 1%, kids play sports to have some fun, get some exercise, and learn life lessons.  There are a lot of life lessons that can be learned by competing with another keeper: Hard work to earn playing time.  Learning to get along with and be friends with someone who you are competing with.  Rooting for your competition to do well because it is best for the team, although it may hurt you personally.  And so many more....
> 
> My keeper is 12 and hasn't hit a growth spirt yet, so I'm not sure if there is college soccer in the future or not.  But, if some of the lessons above can be learned early through having two keepers, it's a win.


I think there is an opportunity to play college ball for every keeper that really wants it. There are plenty of schools across the county at different levels. 
Just make sure academics is always first.


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## forksnbolts (Dec 8, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I think there is an opportunity to play college ball for every keeper that really wants it. There are plenty of schools across the county at different levels.
> Just make sure academics is always first.


D1 is not for everyone, in fact it's for very few. At least that is what I have taken from reading all the recruiting threads. D2 and D3 even NAIA has some wonderful schools in there.


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## Eagle33 (Dec 8, 2020)

forksnbolts said:


> D1 is not for everyone, in fact it's for very few. At least that is what I have taken from reading all the recruiting threads. D2 and D3 even NAIA has some wonderful schools in there.


Absolutely. My kid chose D1 soccer because that's what he wanted to do and he worked his ass off.  Kudos to him for sticking to it.


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## happy9 (Dec 9, 2020)

forksnbolts said:


> D1 is not for everyone, in fact it's for very few. At least that is what I have taken from reading all the recruiting threads. D2 and D3 even NAIA has some wonderful schools in there.


It's an interesting dilemma and journey if your player is lucky enough to move on to the next level.  So many different factors involved.  Most players move on to D3 (still a tiny percentage).  Next is D1, with the least going to a D2 school.  It's competitive across the board, for many reasons.  

My oldest player (not a keeper) has chosen a D2 school over a D1 school, for many different reasons.  Main reason was location, 2nd reason was academics.  His #1 D1 school didn't offer (after months of conversation)  and the D1s on the list didn't meet all of his "requirements".  What's funny is that he didn't know he had "requirements" until he went on campus visits.  Things change when you go on campus and meet coaches/players/staff.  An interesting requirement that arose was his perception of playing time.  He felt playing time at some of the D1 schools was going to be hard to come by in the early years.  His gut told him he would play more where he eventually decided to go.  I don't really know how he perceived his playing time over the years, but whatever.  

I'm proud that he developed some sort of personalized criteria during his process.  He didn't get as caught up in the D1 vs D2 vs D3 (at first he was). We insisted on visiting campuses at different times of the year, not just during official/unofficial visits.  Visits tend to be slightly staged and unintentionally misleading.  JAN in the midwest  and the northeast is different than JUL - weather carried double weight for his selection criteria!

Enjoy the process, know that it's unlikely your player moves on after college.  Be happy that your player has an opportunity to do something that less than 2% of HS athletes get to do., regardless of the "Division" they play in.


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## Keepermom2 (Dec 9, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> First, we have it easier than most to get film of our kids.   I tripod my Iphone 11 and focus on one end of the field.   Also video some practice sessions. Showcase helps, but considering how few touches your kid might get during a game, you just don't know.   ID camps are very important, especially if your kid looks the part and then performs.
> 
> My biggest problem right now is more game footage, and actually have my kid think about what colleges she wants to go to.    We have UCLA(duh), PLNU(because her sister goes there and the field overlooks the ocean), and Cal Baptist(because she loves the food there).  She heard on a comercial that Grand Canyon University had two Chick-Fil-A and all of a sudden she became interested.  Crazy kids.   Need to expand that list to 15-20, but I can't even get her to wear her retainer, so getting more school thoughts may take a while.


I have often thought your daughter sounds a lot like mine both being crazy gamers but, the Grand Canyon University comment sounded like something my daughter would say.  By the way....I was literally just talking to my daughter about getting braces and she said; "What is the point?  You know I won't wear the retainer so they will become crooked again. (note her sister is 2 years out of braces and still wears her retainer religiously at night.)" Valid point.


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## soccer661 (Dec 9, 2020)

Such a nice lovely thread here...love the support of other GK parents!!!


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## Mystery Train (Dec 9, 2020)

happy9 said:


> It's an interesting dilemma and journey if your player is lucky enough to move on to the next level.  So many different factors involved.  Most players move on to D3 (still a tiny percentage).  Next is D1, with the least going to a D2 school.  It's competitive across the board, for many reasons.
> 
> My oldest player (not a keeper) has chosen a D2 school over a D1 school, for many different reasons.  Main reason was location, 2nd reason was academics.  His #1 D1 school didn't offer (after months of conversation)  and the D1s on the list didn't meet all of his "requirements".  What's funny is that he didn't know he had "requirements" until he went on campus visits.  Things change when you go on campus and meet coaches/players/staff.  An interesting requirement that arose was his perception of playing time.  He felt playing time at some of the D1 schools was going to be hard to come by in the early years.  His gut told him he would play more where he eventually decided to go.  I don't really know how he perceived his playing time over the years, but whatever.
> 
> ...


All of this^^^^   

100%


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