# Verbal Commitments



## Glen

Interesting article about potential Ivy League changes to early recruiting and verbal commitments.  I've seen some proposals from the NCAA about the same, but the Ivy League may be the testing ground.

One fact that jumped out at me:

"Harris pointed to increasing transfer rates in intercollegiate athletics as evidence athletes are making recruitment decisions too early. According to the NCAA, _*one-third of college athletes transfer to another program.*_"


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## soccerobserver

Glen said:


> Interesting article about potential Ivy League changes to early recruiting and verbal commitments.  I've seen some proposals from the NCAA about the same, but the Ivy League may be the testing ground.
> 
> One fact that jumped out at me:
> 
> "Harris pointed to increasing transfer rates in intercollegiate athletics as evidence athletes are making recruitment decisions too early. According to the NCAA, _*one-third of college athletes transfer to another program.*_"


G,  can you post the link to the article ?


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## Glen

soccerobserver said:


> G,  can you post the link to the article ?


My fault SO.  Here it is.  https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/09/21/ivy-league-announces-proposals-curbing-early-recruitment-athletes

"Specializing in a specific sport at a young age is on the rise. According to a survey conducted by the NCAA last year, more than 60 percent of Division I college athletes said they started specializing in their sport by age 12, with many saying they did so hoping to play for a college team."


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## soccerobserver

G, thanks for posting the link. Interesting article. The Ivy League is small which will make it easy to police themselves and enforce the rule. Not sure how it would work on a broader scale. Kids committing in middle school seems insane... I think it might be an issue with the parents more so than  the schools...


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## Surfref

Glen said:


> Interesting article about potential Ivy League changes to early recruiting and verbal commitments.  I've seen some proposals from the NCAA about the same, but the Ivy League may be the testing ground.
> 
> One fact that jumped out at me:
> 
> "Harris pointed to increasing transfer rates in intercollegiate athletics as evidence athletes are making recruitment decisions too early. According to the NCAA, _*one-third of college athletes transfer to another program.*_"


Good article.  My DD was one of those transfer students.  She left in-state tuition and a $14000 scholarship in South Carolina after her freshman year and came back home to attend and play at a junior college this year.  She did not like the South Carolina atmosphere on campus/team or the culture off campus.  She took summer classes a full load in the fall and over winter break and will be transferring to a California college next fall.  She has offers from 4 of the 5 California colleges she has applied for, so we are just waiting to see which ones she gets accepted.  She has a 3.98 GPA and will complete her Associates degree this spring.  What I didn't know is that since she will complete her AA degree in the spring that the California Universities look at that as already being completed and she falls within the priority transfer group.  We expect her to get accepted to all 5 universities, than the hard part comes....deciding which one she will attend and whether she will play soccer and if so at which level (universities top competitive team or the universities club team).  DD said that if she had to do it all over again that she would have stayed home, attended the JC and played soccer than transferred to a University.  She will get free tuition at whichever California university she attends since I am a disabled Veteran.  One of my DD friends is a freshman at an Illinois university and playing soccer this year.  She has also decided that she will be coming back to California and attending a JC next fall.  She hates the cold and snow, and has changed her mind about her declared major.


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## NoGoal

Surfref,  Interesting about your DDs friend not liking almost zero degree weather and 2-3 feet of snow.  Seriously, I'm not surprised she doesn't like the weather.  It's why I tell parents, if their DD is considering mid-west and/or east coast schools.  They need to go on their unofficial visit during the dead of Winter.  IMO, these teenagers think cold and snowy weather as having fun snowboarding at Mammoth or Big Bear.

Good luck to your daughter!


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## Glen

soccerobserver said:


> G, thanks for posting the link. Interesting article. The Ivy League is small which will make it easy to police themselves and enforce the rule. Not sure how it would work on a broader scale. Kids committing in middle school seems insane... I think it might be an issue with the parents more so than  the schools...


Agreed.  Though, the one thing usual about verbal commitments is that "secret verbal commitments" aren't what coaches really want.  Will they still happen if early verbal commits are banned, of course.  But it's not like other rules, such as practice, where you can violate them quietly and still get all the benefit.


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## Bernie Sanders

My kid is gutting it out on the mean streets of Malibu.
Fingers crossed.


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## Zerodenero

Glen said:


> Agreed.  Though, the one thing usual about verbal commitments is that "secret verbal commitments" aren't what coaches really want.  Will they still happen if early verbal commits are banned, of course.  But it's not like other rules, such as practice, where you can violate them quietly and still get all the benefit.


Verbal-schmerbal....Of course the Ivy League is proposing it, they have the least to loose because no matter how much of a talented baller a recruit may be, if the kid doesn't make high standards of an Ivy academic admissions dept, the verbal means zero, zilch, nada


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## Zerodenero

Bernie Sanders said:


> My kid is gutting it out on the mean streets of Malibu.
> Fingers crossed.


Well, let's hope she doesn't run into these cronies from the "Bu"...(circa 1991)


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## Bernie Sanders

Zerodenero said:


> Well, let's hope she doesn't run into these cronies from the "Bu"...(circa 1991)


Dude.


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## MakeAPlay

Zerodenero said:


> Verbal-schmerbal....Of course the Ivy League is proposing it, they have the least to loose because no matter how much of a talented baller a recruit may be, if the kid doesn't make high standards of an Ivy academic admissions dept, the verbal means zero, zilch, nada


And they get some pretty talented ballers.  Not to mention some AMAZING and powerful women!


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## MakeAPlay

Signing day on Wednesday.  It all starts to get real.  Hopefully everyone has been putting in work.  Bad decisions or poor work ethic leads to transfers!  Florida St. had half of their 8 man recruiting class leave school and might lose another.  Lots of SoCal girls from the 2016 class have transferred.  Let's hope that the 2017 class did a better job of vetting their options.  Playing in BFE may sound good but the reality is most of our girls are West Coasters...  Pick the college not the soccer program.  Good luck to all.


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## Surfref

MakeAPlay said:


> Signing day on Wednesday.  It all starts to get real.  Hopefully everyone has been putting in work.  Bad decisions or poor work ethic leads to transfers!  Florida St. had half of their 8 man recruiting class leave school and might lose another.  Lots of SoCal girls from the 2016 class have transferred.  Let's hope that the 2017 class did a better job of vetting their options.  Playing in BFE may sound good but the reality is most of our girls are West Coasters...  Pick the college not the soccer program.  Good luck to all.


Even with good vetting and several visits, the program and school can turn out to not be a good fit.  If it is not a good fit, hopefully the kids are not afraid to tell their parents and restart the college process.  Don't make a bad situation worse.


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## MakeAPlay

Surfref said:


> Even with good vetting and several visits, the program and school can turn out to not be a good fit.  If it is not a good fit, hopefully the kids are not afraid to tell their parents and restart the college process.  Don't make a bad situation worse.


I agree.  That is why pencils have erasers.


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## Sheriff Joe

Bernie Sanders said:


> My kid is gutting it out on the mean streets of Malibu.
> Fingers crossed.


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## eastbaysoccer

It's tough to receive a scholarship to a D1 CA school.


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## MakeAPlay

eastbaysoccer said:


> It's tough to receive a scholarship to a D1 CA school.


Very true.  There are only 21 universities in California that currently play D1 women's soccer.  That is on average 7 opportunities per grad year per school for a total of 147 spots.  Even if you remove Stanford, Cal, UCLA, USC, Santa Clara and Pepperdine you still have 105 spots.  Not many but still plenty of chances for players to stay instate.  When you consider that Notre Dame, Duke, Georgetown, Virginia and the Ivies will poach some of the better players that are also elite students it still gives a talented SoCal girl a fighting chance to stay in California.

I agree with you though it is tough to get a scholarship to play college soccer in SoCal.  That's why a lot of players go out of state.


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## mirage

eastbaysoccer said:


> It's tough to receive a scholarship to a D1 CA school.


True statement but its hard to get any when you consider only handful of players get a roster spot regardless of division.

Why is D1 important? Or the school of your interest happens to be D1?  Hope is the latter.  There are so many top notch institutions that are D3.  For some unknown reason, D2 seems to be in no man's land but maybe its a CA thing...

So, eastbay, is staying in the Bay Area or SoCal important?  Options are so much greater, when you fold the map out...


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## eastbaysoccer

My dd was open to going anywhere for the adventure.  We opened up the recruitment to D3 and yes if you receive an academic scholarship of some sort it's probably better than the D2 choices we have in CA.  UC SAn Diego is probably at the top of the list at D2 but as a UC is it is very difficult to juggle a science major with soccer.  At D3's you are a student first and hence you have time to be an engineering major or pre-med and play soccer.


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## eastbaysoccer

Most of the D2 schools are the Cal States.   Good league but not placesmost of the kids dream of going to.   So cal girls want the PAC-12 or WCC and the prestige that goes with it as it pertains to soccer. That's my guess.


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## eastbaysoccer

Lots of options.   It's hard to beat CA though.  THat's why we are here, right?


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## MakeAPlay

eastbaysoccer said:


> My dd was open to going anywhere for the adventure.  We opened up the recruitment to D3 and yes if you receive an academic scholarship of some sort it's probably better than the D2 choices we have in CA.  UC SAn Diego is probably at the top of the list at D2 but as a UC is it is very difficult to juggle a science major with soccer.  At D3's you are a student first and hence you have time to be an engineering major or pre-med and play soccer.


There are engineering and pre-med majors at D1 schools playing at the highest level.  Look at the rosters of the top academic D1 schools and you will see plenty of them.


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## espola

MakeAPlay said:


> There are engineering and pre-med majors at D1 schools playing at the highest level.  Look at the rosters of the top academic D1 schools and you will see plenty of them.


On my son's team at UC Davis, one of better players was an honors pre-med who didn't try out for the team his first year, so he had a year of eligibility left when he graduated.  He played his "Senior" year while a first-year med student.


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## Lambchop

soccerobserver said:


> G, thanks for posting the link. Interesting article. The Ivy League is small which will make it easy to police themselves and enforce the rule. Not sure how it would work on a broader scale. Kids committing in middle school seems insane... I think it might be an issue with the parents more so than  the schools...


Of all the kids playing soccer, there are only a handful who commit to schools early.  Only the very elite.  Of the so called third of athletes who later transfer, most of those were not early commit.  They were student/athletes who either didn't like the academics, location, coach or program.  There are plenty of students who change schools.  Many attend schools they can get into their freshman year, then after one of two years transfer to the school they really want.


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## mirage

Lambchop said:


> ...........Many attend schools they can get into their freshman year, then after one of two years transfer to the school they really want.


Is this a true statement?  I have never seen any data/statistics indicating this trend. 

Unless you are talking about doing 1~2 years in the community college, then transferring, changing colleges are not all that common.  Change of major occurs within any given institution, as well as dropping out.  Both of those are significantly higher than actual institution transfers.

I realize we all read and hear about a player here and there transferring from U of X to U of Y, but putting in proper context, the number of transfers versus the student population is less than 1%.

In particular to engineering curricula, the attrition rate is well over 70% when incoming freshman is compared to graduating seniors, based on my experience when I used to be on few industry advisory council at various universities.


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## Lambchop

mirage said:


> Is this a true statement?  I have never seen any data/statistics indicating this trend.
> 
> Unless you are talking about doing 1~2 years in the community college, then transferring, changing colleges are not all that common.  Change of major occurs within any given institution, as well as dropping out.  Both of those are significantly higher than actual institution transfers.
> 
> I realize we all read and hear about a player here and there transferring from U of X to U of Y, but putting in proper context, the number of transfers versus the student population is less than 1%.
> 
> In particular to engineering curricula, the attrition rate is well over 70% when incoming freshman is compared to graduating seniors, based on my experience when I used to be on few industry advisory council at various universities.


Because of the difficulty of getting into college, particularly the UC system, and for non athletes, I know of four seniors who have gotten acceptances to schools they are not planning on staying at. California schools are very impacted, many schools have a large amount of out of state students. Out of state students pay a higher tuition than in state. Money makers for the universities.  Not sure about other states.


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## NoGoal

mirage said:


> Is this a true statement?  I have never seen any data/statistics indicating this trend.
> 
> Unless you are talking about doing 1~2 years in the community college, then transferring, changing colleges are not all that common.  Change of major occurs within any given institution, as well as dropping out.  Both of those are significantly higher than actual institution transfers.
> 
> I realize we all read and hear about a player here and there transferring from U of X to U of Y, but putting in proper context, the number of transfers versus the student population is less than 1%.
> 
> In particular to engineering curricula, the attrition rate is well over 70% when incoming freshman is compared to graduating seniors, based on my experience when I used to be on few industry advisory council at various universities.


Lambchops is posting "Alternative Facts"


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## NoGoal

Lambchop said:


> Because of the difficulty of getting into college, particularly the UC system, and for non athletes, I know of four seniors who have gotten acceptances to schools they are not planning on staying at. California schools are very impacted, many schools have a large amount of out of state students. Out of state students pay a higher tuition than in state. Money makers for the universities.  Not sure about other states.


BS, my DD was being recruited by UC Davis and UCI and didn't commit to those Universities a couple years ago.


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## soccermama213

My dd recently verbally committed as a sophomore to a (So cal) CA D1 school. She was apprehensive because of her age and we even discussed if she would still want to play soccer then. It had everything she wanted and she will be local (which was super important to her) and can come home if she wants to. I told her she shouldn't stress about it! If she chooses later to change her mind, it's ok. She can go to college no matter what and even if that mean JC.  I personally find it crazy how early all of this starts. It's a lot of pressure on kids who are still trying to be a teenager.


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## MakeAPlay

soccermama213 said:


> My dd recently verbally committed as a sophomore to a (So cal) CA D1 school. She was apprehensive because of her age and we even discussed if she would still want to play soccer then. It had everything she wanted and she will be local (which was super important to her) and can come home if she wants to. I told her she shouldn't stress about it! If she chooses later to change her mind, it's ok. She can go to college no matter what and even if that mean JC.  I personally find it crazy how early all of this starts. It's a lot of pressure on kids who are still trying to be a teenager.


It sounds like your player has a good head on her shoulders.  She clearly knows what she wants and it sounds like she picked the school situation first and the soccer situation 2nd.  Bravo!!  Great parenting.  It is crazy how early it starts.  In my opinion it's hard to tell who the best players are at 14 and 15.  It becomes much more accurate by the time they are 17-18.  Good luck to you and yours.


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## soccermama213

MakeAPlay said:


> It sounds like your player has a good head on her shoulders.  She clearly knows what she wants and it sounds like she picked the school situation first and the soccer situation 2nd.  Bravo!!  Great parenting.  It is crazy how early it starts.  In my opinion it's hard to tell who the best players are at 14 and 15.  It becomes much more accurate by the time they are 17-18.  Good luck to you and yours.


Thank you!


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## SocalSoccerMom

soccermama213 said:


> My dd recently verbally committed as a sophomore to a (So cal) CA D1 school. She was apprehensive because of her age and we even discussed if she would still want to play soccer then. It had everything she wanted and she will be local (which was super important to her) and can come home if she wants to. I told her she shouldn't stress about it! If she chooses later to change her mind, it's ok. She can go to college no matter what and even if that mean JC.  I personally find it crazy how early all of this starts. It's a lot of pressure on kids who are still trying to be a teenager.


Once she commits to a college, can she still look around and explore other options? This might not apply to a lot of kids, but in my HS days, the week where college acceptance letters were sent was pretty memorable. There were tears of joy along with disappointment.


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## NoGoal

SocalSoccerMom said:


> Once she commits to a college, can she still look around and explore other options? This might not apply to a lot of kids, but in my HS days, the week where college acceptance letters were sent was pretty memorable. There were tears of joy along with disappointment.


Actually, if a player verbally commits.  The player does NOT continue to entertain other school offers.  That is not honorable and tells me the player and family did NOT verbally commit to the right school.  This is unfair to the university which is saving a roster spot and earmarking athletic money, if money is involved with the players committment.  If the player and family wants to keep entertaining offers.   I highly suggest decommitting before doing so.

I know of a player who committed to a university and was still entertaining other offers.  The University the player was verbally committed to found out (yes, college coaches talk to each other) and took their verbal offer away.


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## Glen

SocalSoccerMom said:


> Once she commits to a college, can she still look around and explore other options? This might not apply to a lot of kids, but in my HS days, the week where college acceptance letters were sent was pretty memorable. There were tears of joy along with disappointment.


You are allowed to explore other options.  There is nothing binding about a verbal commitment (for either your DD or the university).  As NoGoal points out, this may rub a coach the wrong way if they find out.  And if your DD lands a better option through exploring, no reason not to tell the coach right away you are decommitting.  But the reality is, almost every kid that decommits does so only after they have quietly explored other options.  I don't think there is any "dishonor" in working a system.  The university is not bound, so they shouldn't pretend your kid is bound.


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## NoGoal

Glen said:


> You are allowed to explore other options.  There is nothing binding about a verbal commitment (for either your DD or the university).  As NoGoal points out, this may rub a coach the wrong way if they find out.  And if your DD lands a better option through exploring, no reason not to tell the coach right away you are decommitting.  But the reality is, almost every kid that decommits does so only after they have quietly explored other options.  I don't think there is any "dishonor" in working a system.  The university is not bound, so they shouldn't pretend your kid is bound.


I have NOT heard of one 2017 commit who's verbal agreement was not honored.  I.E. ended up with less money than agreed.  Unless of course the player didn't academically get into the school.  Verbal offer and acceptance are a word of honor between both parties.

This is what a family is doing to a university, if a player verbally accepts an offer, then underhandedly decides to continue entertaining offers without decommitting first.  You leave the verbally committed university in a bind.  Lets say they only need 1 centerback for the class.  The player who verbally committed as a HS sophomore was their #1 centerback on their recruiting board.  They stopped recruiting the #2-5 centerbacks on their board.  A year later as a HS Jr, the player decommits, because the family was still entertaining offers. Leaving the university SOL, because their #2-5 centerbacks have now committed elsewhere.

A player and family are NOT ready to verbally commit, if they still want to entertain offers.  If any family wants to continue the recruitment process, decommit first...so, the univeristy can continue recruiting for the position in need.


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## NoGoal

FWIW, I heard of 2 SoCal top 20 class of 2017 recruits who verbally committed as HS freshmen.  They decommitted "first" before restarting their recruiting process. They did not leave the university hanging.


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## Glen

Coaches reach out to committed players all the time.  There is no honor among thieves.


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## Zerodenero

Glen said:


> There is no honor among thieves.


Sounds deep. Do share.......


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## NoGoal

Glen said:


> Coaches reach out to committed players all the time.  There is no honor among thieves.


And I know of one of those Universities and I wouldn't want my DD playing for that coach.  It reveals the character and integrity of that coach and how he runs his program.  2 wrongs doesn't make a right!

I also have seen many college coaches who took a team brochure and crossed out all of the players who were already committed on the brochure.  There are honorable college coaches out there.


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## NoGoal

Glen said:


> Coaches reach out to committed players all the time.  There is no honor among thieves.


And it's up to the family to inform the college coach that they are verbally committed and not interested....if, being contacted.


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## Glen

Zerodenero said:


> Sounds deep. Do share.......


Nothing deep.  I clearly stole the phrase.


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## MakeAPlay

Honoring commitments or waiting until you are ready to commit are both valuable life lessons.  Although it is correct that there is no honor among thieves I have to ask are we raiding thieves or strong young women?


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## NoGoal

MakeAPlay said:


> Honoring commitments or waiting until you are ready to commit are both valuable life lessons.  Although it is correct that there is no honor among thieves I have to ask are we raiding thieves or strong young women?


Amen!  What are we teaching our teenage kids and what are some of these clubs telling their parents about the college recruitment process.


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## Glen

MakeAPlay said:


> Honoring commitments or waiting until you are ready to commit are both valuable life lessons.  Although it is correct that there is no honor among thieves I have to ask are we raiding thieves or strong young women?


I'm raising a lawyer.


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## MakeAPlay

Glen said:


> I'm raising a lawyer.


Touché


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## Zerodenero

Glen said:


> Nothing deep.  I clearly stole the phrase.


Clearly.



Glen said:


> I'm raising a lawyer.


Golden.

And if that doesn't pan out, with the skills she'll learn thru this process, the world is still her Yster


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## soccermama213

My daughter plans to honor her commitment and isn't still shooing around. What I meant by her changing her mind was she was worried if she even wanted to still play soccer when she is 21. I said we can worry about that then. The worst that happens is your honest and you say thank you but my life plan has changed and now we (us and/or her) are responsible for her college bill. I want her to know 100% that college will always be an option for her with or without soccer.


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## MakeAPlay

*From Topdrawersoccer:  http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/article/?articleId=41440&categoryId=2


Tatiana Fung, Forward, Arsenal FC (CA)/Sunny Hills
Class: 2021
Commitment: Texas

While four years sit between now and the graduating class of 2021, head coach Angela Kelly continues to lead the way in early recruiting.

Tatiana Fung recently became the fourth player to commit for that year.

“I decided to commit to Texas because that has been my dream school for the longest time,” she told TopDrawerSoccer. “Their staff is one of a kind, they treat you like family and that's what I love about it. The facilities are beautiful and academics are the top priority. Angela Kelly's coaching style is exactly how I love it.”

MORE: Girls Commitments | 2018 Girls IMG Academy 150

The way Texas treats its athletes caught her attention, whether it was from the coaching staff or the university itself.

Academic choices, while farther down the road, intrigued her as well.

“I liked the kinesiology program and that you have tutors to help you if you are struggling,” Fund said. “They take pride in the classrooms and on the field.”

Four players have committed to join Texas in 2021.
*


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## MakeAPlay

MakeAPlay said:


> *From Topdrawersoccer:  http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/article/?articleId=41440&categoryId=2
> 
> 
> Tatiana Fung, Forward, Arsenal FC (CA)/Sunny Hills
> Class: 2021
> Commitment: Texas
> 
> While four years sit between now and the graduating class of 2021, head coach Angela Kelly continues to lead the way in early recruiting.
> 
> Tatiana Fung recently became the fourth player to commit for that year.
> 
> “I decided to commit to Texas because that has been my dream school for the longest time,” she told TopDrawerSoccer. “Their staff is one of a kind, they treat you like family and that's what I love about it. The facilities are beautiful and academics are the top priority. Angela Kelly's coaching style is exactly how I love it.”
> 
> MORE: Girls Commitments | 2018 Girls IMG Academy 150
> 
> The way Texas treats its athletes caught her attention, whether it was from the coaching staff or the university itself.
> 
> Academic choices, while farther down the road, intrigued her as well.
> 
> “I liked the kinesiology program and that you have tutors to help you if you are struggling,” Fund said. “They take pride in the classrooms and on the field.”
> 
> Four players have committed to join Texas in 2021.*


Talk about early recruiting!  Texas has fourth 8th graders committed.  Probably why they aren't very good.  You really can't accurately judge a player in the 8th grade.  Most haven't really hit puberty or are just starting to hit puberty.  She talks about kinesiology and hasn't even taken a high school biology class.

The coaches are watching early but few are as crazy as they are in Texas!


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## espola

MakeAPlay said:


> Talk about early recruiting!  Texas has fourth 8th graders committed.  Probably why they aren't very good.  You really can't accurately judge a player in the 8th grade.  Most haven't really hit puberty or are just starting to hit puberty.  She talks about kinesiology and hasn't even taken a high school biology class.
> 
> The coaches are watching early but few are as crazy as they are in Texas!


Probably they are very good - now.  The question on the table is how good will they be in 4 years.


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## MakeAPlay

espola said:


> Probably they are very good - now.  The question on the table is how good will they be in 4 years.


I agree.  She is probably quite the middle school player.  Big difference between that and being an impact college player in 5 years!


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## chargerfan

MakeAPlay said:


> Talk about early recruiting!  Texas has fourth 8th graders committed.  Probably why they aren't very good.  You really can't accurately judge a player in the 8th grade.  Most haven't really hit puberty or are just starting to hit puberty.  She talks about kinesiology and hasn't even taken a high school biology class.
> 
> The coaches are watching early but few are as crazy as they are in Texas!


How in the world would that little girl even have an idea of what college would be a good fit at 8th grade? And MAP is right, how does the school know already what kind of player she will be in college? This is ridiculous. My daughter's major decisions right are now are whether to go to the mall or movies this weekend.


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## pooka

My daughter is a 2022.... that's insane. When is that 13 year old girl going on college visits and studying the academics offered? Right now all we do is visit campuses during tournaments lol


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## mirage

Before you know it, pregnant mothers of "desirable physical attribute parents" will be approached to commit their unborn kid to college.  Since the kid is not born yet, no NCAA rules are broken and they can say and do whatever....

Promises of full ride and excellent education.  No need for 529 plan or savings, for athletic parents who played at college or pro....


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## MakeAPlay

mirage said:


> Before you know it, pregnant mothers of "desirable physical attribute parents" will be approached to commit their unborn kid to college.  Since the kid is not born yet, no NCAA rules are broken and they can say and do whatever....
> 
> Promises of full ride and excellent education.  No need for 529 plan or savings, for athletic parents who played at college or pro....


I would recruit Steph Curry's daughter right now.  Or Jrue and Lauren Holiday's kid.  The apple doesn't fall that far from the tree.


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## NoGoal

MakeAPlay said:


> I would recruit Steph Curry's daughter right now.  Or Jrue and Lauren Holiday's kid.  The apple doesn't fall that far from the tree.


Very true, a couple of examples....TR from SC Blues.  She is a U15 YNT player and the daughter of Dennis Rodman.

Another is Charles Haley's (NFL defensive end) DD Madison who will be playing for Stanford this fall.


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## soccerobserver

For those who are interested...Manute Bol's son recently played against Shaquille Oneal's son...Mater Dei vs Crossroads HS...CIF bball playoffs 2 days ago...

http://www.maxpreps.com/video/watch.aspx?videoid=bfbb6627-ecb4-482e-bca2-9a8d25f7580d


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## Multi Sport

So where is the integrity of the coach who recruits your kid then leaves before the season starts?

That's why you help your kid choose the school first, then the team and lastly the coach.


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## shortBUTslow

MakeAPlay said:


> Talk about early recruiting!  Texas has fourth 8th graders committed.  Probably why they aren't very good.  You really can't accurately judge a player in the 8th grade.  Most haven't really hit puberty or are just starting to hit puberty.  She talks about kinesiology and hasn't even taken a high school biology class.
> 
> The coaches are watching early but few are as crazy as they are in Texas!


The system is clearly not built for late developing girls.  Women's soccer should learn a bit from the revenue sports.  If coaches miss all the time (which they do) selecting 18 year old boys, I can promise you they are missing by a mile on 13 and 14 year old girls.


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## Juve 50

MakeAPlay said:


> *From Topdrawersoccer:  http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/article/?articleId=41440&categoryId=2
> 
> 
> Tatiana Fung, Forward, Arsenal FC (CA)/Sunny Hills
> Class: 2021
> Commitment: Texas
> 
> While four years sit between now and the graduating class of 2021, head coach Angela Kelly continues to lead the way in early recruiting.
> 
> Tatiana Fung recently became the fourth player to commit for that year.
> 
> “I decided to commit to Texas because that has been my dream school for the longest time,” she told TopDrawerSoccer. “Their staff is one of a kind, they treat you like family and that's what I love about it. The facilities are beautiful and academics are the top priority. Angela Kelly's coaching style is exactly how I love it.”
> 
> MORE: Girls Commitments | 2018 Girls IMG Academy 150
> 
> The way Texas treats its athletes caught her attention, whether it was from the coaching staff or the university itself.
> 
> Academic choices, while farther down the road, intrigued her as well.
> 
> “I liked the kinesiology program and that you have tutors to help you if you are struggling,” Fund said. “They take pride in the classrooms and on the field.”
> 
> Four players have committed to join Texas in 2021.*


My dd could have said the same about every program she visited.  Everything said was pretty generic. She didn't take a trip until her sophomore year and waited till the beginning of her Junior year to commit.  And we are glad we did as 2 of her dream schools made strong pushes for her at the end.  She could have settled and went to the first school that had her on a visit.  She would have literally quoted the above quote word for word.  So glad she didn't.  No need to commit too early.  If a program really likes you they will still like after you wait until you are sure.


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## Multi Sport

mirage said:


> Before you know it, pregnant mothers of "desirable physical attribute parents" will be approached to commit their unborn kid to college.  Since the kid is not born yet, no NCAA rules are broken and they can say and do whatever....
> 
> Promises of full ride and excellent education.  No need for 529 plan or savings, for athletic parents who played at college or pro....


I heard it already happened.


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## PLSAP

Juve 50 said:


> No need to commit too early.


I think some people think that you aren't elite unless you commit before your sophomore year. People don't realize that Mallory Pugh (just one example) didn't commit until her senior year. I'm pretty sure she qualifies as elite  And it's just that, if you are elite, then you have plenty of time to figure out what you want to study, what you want in a college, AND the college will be able to watch you grow, or not, and keep pursuing you, or not.


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## MakeAPlay

PLSAP said:


> I think some people think that you aren't elite unless you commit before your sophomore year. People don't realize that Mallory Pugh (just one example) didn't commit until her senior year. I'm pretty sure she qualifies as elite  And it's just that, if you are elite, then you have plenty of time to figure out what you want to study, what you want in a college, AND the college will be able to watch you grow, or not, and keep pursuing you, or not.


Mallory Pugh committed in April of her sophomore year of high school although she had offers from everyone and their mother as a freshman.


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## PLSAP

MakeAPlay said:


> Mallory Pugh committed in April of her sophomore year of high school although she had offers from everyone and their mother as a freshman.


I meant that she didn't sign until her senior year, sorry, I'm always forget little details. I'm almost sure because wasn't there all of those rumors of her forgoing college and signing with the Portland Thorns? Then she officially signed her NLI in spring or something? And of course I know that she couldn't have signed, that nobody signs their sophomore year and that any commits made sophmore year are verbal, but I was under the impression that she was planning to attend UCLA, but didn't sign her NLI until considerably later... 
Cause if so, I was just trying to show that even the best keep their options open
If not, my apologies that I was feeding bad info


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## PLSAP

I remember reading several articles about it last year, though at the time I definitely didn't have nearly the amount of knowledge about what was going on in the college world as MAP does. Here's two
https://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/02/03/uswnt-mallory-pugh-ucla-signs-nwsl 
http://pac-12.com/article/2016/02/04/mallory-pugh-nations-no-1-womens-soccer-recruit-signs-ucla


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## gkrent

PLSAP said:


> I meant that she didn't sign until her senior year, sorry, I'm always forget little details.
> And of course I know that she couldn't have signed, that nobody signs their sophomore year and that any commits made sophmore year are verbal, but I was under the impression that she was planning to attend UCLA, but didn't sign her NLI until considerably later...


I'm pretty sure no one can sign an NLI until their senior year.


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## MakeAPlay

PLSAP said:


> I meant that she didn't sign until her senior year, sorry, I'm always forget little details. I'm almost sure because wasn't there all of those rumors of her forgoing college and signing with the Portland Thorns? Then she officially signed her NLI in spring or something? And of course I know that she couldn't have signed, that nobody signs their sophomore year and that any commits made sophmore year are verbal, but I was under the impression that she was planning to attend UCLA, but didn't sign her NLI until considerably later...
> Cause if so, I was just trying to show that even the best keep their options open
> If not, my apologies that I was feeding bad info


She signed on signing day and they released a press release as soon as all 7 players that were based in North America signed.  They added their Australian goalkeeper, a Spanish forward and a Japanese midfielder a few weeks later.  The Spanish forward was a JC transfer (she had to pass the TOEFL), the goalie signed without visiting and the midfielder was a dual citizen (she was born in New York).  I'm pretty well informed on this topic.  Here is a press release from signing day that breaks down their class.  That recruiting class could go down as the best ever and had an immediate impact even with Pugh and Canales sitting out the season for the U20 WWC and ended up having 3 players named to the best IX freshman and Fleming winning freshman of the year.

https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/ucla-womens-soccer-signs-2016-class_aid38799


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## MakeAPlay

PLSAP said:


> I remember reading several articles about it last year, though at the time I definitely didn't have nearly the amount of knowledge about what was going on in the college world as MAP does. Here's two
> https://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/02/03/uswnt-mallory-pugh-ucla-signs-nwsl
> http://pac-12.com/article/2016/02/04/mallory-pugh-nations-no-1-womens-soccer-recruit-signs-ucla


Those were just rumors and why they should speak to the kid or her family before the print such tripe.  She isn't a kid from the hood who is hard up for money.  She is enjoying her time at UCLA and is looking to win a national championship this season before the run up to the 2019 WWC begins.  She is the scalpel that the Bruins were missing last year when Jenkins went down.


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## PLSAP

MakeAPlay said:


> She signed on signing day and they released a press release as soon as all 7 players that were based in North America signed.  They added their Australian goalkeeper, a Spanish forward and a Japanese midfielder a few weeks later.  The Spanish forward was a JC transfer (she had to pass the TOEFL), the goalie signed without visiting and the midfielder was a dual citizen (she was born in New York).  I'm pretty well informed on this topic.  Here is a press release from signing day that breaks down their class.  That recruiting class could go down as the best ever and had an immediate impact even with Pugh and Canales sitting out the season for the U20 WWC and ended up having 3 players named to the best IX freshman and Fleming winning freshman of the year.
> 
> https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/ucla-womens-soccer-signs-2016-class_aid38799


oh okay... I wasn't trying to say your uninformed, because I really like hearing you talk about soccer and seeing how knowledgeable you are on this topic in particular, I was trying to figure out where the inconsistencies in what I heard came from, and I knew the rumors were just rumors but that's where the timeline started for me. Thank you!


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## NoGoal

PLSAP said:


> I meant that she didn't sign until her senior year, sorry, I'm always forget little details. I'm almost sure because wasn't there all of those rumors of her forgoing college and signing with the Portland Thorns? Then she officially signed her NLI in spring or something? And of course I know that she couldn't have signed, that nobody signs their sophomore year and that any commits made sophmore year are verbal, but I was under the impression that she was planning to attend UCLA, but didn't sign her NLI until considerably later...
> Cause if so, I was just trying to show that even the best keep their options open
> If not, my apologies that I was feeding bad info


 Your prior post is true, YNT players can wait and still get money. Here are a couple of examples of incoming college freshmen.  K.P. committed to Stanford her Jr year and she was still being recruited by Virgina, Notre Dame, FSU, and Santa Clara as well.  T.T. committed to UVA her Jr year as well.


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## MakeAPlay

PLSAP said:


> oh okay... I wasn't trying to say your uninformed, because I really like hearing you talk about soccer and seeing how knowledgeable you are on this topic in particular, I was trying to figure out where the inconsistencies in what I heard came from, and I knew the rumors were just rumors but that's where the timeline started for me. Thank you!


I didn't say that you were trying to imply that I was uninformed.  I was just clearing up the record about when she committed, when she signed (the same day as all of their North American based recruits) and where the fake rumors of her skipping college came from.  No worries she is doing fine.  Her, Fleming and Goralski won't be playing tomorrow against the Seattle Reign.  All three are in various national team camps.  I did hear that they have a spring game not listed on their official roster down in San Diego a week from Friday that will be announced soon.


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## PLSAP

Speaking of which, what are the thoughts on the UA contract? I know a lot of girls who  don't really like UA, especially seeing as how they're always in Nike with a majority of the big time clubs wearing Nike, Cal South with the Nike sponsorship, and for YNT teams players, obviously their gear is Nike. Does anyone know if the contract is gear too? Or just apparel? I mean, even on the field, I would say Santa Clara has the best UA jerseys but for goalkeepers ... it's not always the prettiest or even nicest looking. Just looking for thoughts, maybe what their DD's say about it. I know a lot of parents don't think it's a big deal, but there are also a LOT of players who are very brand-picky.


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## MakeAPlay

PLSAP said:


> Speaking of which, what are the thoughts on the UA contract? I know a lot of girls who  don't really like UA, especially seeing as how they're always in Nike with a majority of the big time clubs wearing Nike, Cal South with the Nike sponsorship, and for YNT teams players, obviously their gear is Nike. Does anyone know if the contract is gear too? Or just apparel? I mean, even on the field, I would say Santa Clara has the best UA jerseys but for goalkeepers ... it's not always the prettiest or even nicest looking. Just looking for thoughts, maybe what their DD's say about it. I know a lot of parents don't think it's a big deal, but there are also a LOT of players who are very brand-picky.


They haven't started wearing the UA stuff yet.  It starts in the fall.  The contract is for gear and apparel.  It is a very generous agreement and they will see how it goes.  I do know that if they have a problem with a particular shoe that they can get other brands but would have to slap a UA sticker on it for games.

Regarding players being picky, free is always the best and I would imagine trump a lot of concerns.


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## SocalSoccerMom

Is it true that east coast and midwest players commit at a younger age than Socal/west coast kids?


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## MakeAPlay

https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-player-profile/macy-blackburn/pid-112343/tab-college-choices

Here is an 8th grader committing.  Of course it is a Texas school so that is par for the course.


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## MakeAPlay

SocalSoccerMom said:


> Is it true that east coast and midwest players commit at a younger age than Socal/west coast kids?


Depends upon the kid not necessarily the region.


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## PLSAP

MakeAPlay said:


> They haven't started wearing the UA stuff yet.  It starts in the fall.  The contract is for gear and apparel.  It is a very generous agreement and they will see how it goes.  I do know that if they have a problem with a particular shoe that they can get other brands but would have to slap a UA sticker on it for games.
> 
> Regarding players being picky, free is always the best and I would imagine trump a lot of concerns.


And the Adidas contract ends this summer, correct? About the shoe thing, does UA produce high top boots? I've searched their website to no avail. I'd explain my thinking but you probably know the value (at least I have found) in a player's boot (i.e. fit, style, etc), but I'm not saying that the boot makes the player by any means. And I definitely share the same belief, if it's free it's free. Also, I know that a lot of contracts have the "leeway" where if a player is having problems with their feet due to the product, they can wear another brand only if the brand is (depending on the contract) either covered/hidden or covered with a sticker for the respective brand. I believe at Oregon, Nike had stated that should the player have problems they will do their best to adapt/personalize the shoe to that specific player's needs, but if ultimately it doesn't work, the above goes into effect.


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## SocalSoccerMom

I was looking at c/o 2020 o
https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/search/?query=&genderId=f&graduationYear=2020&positionId=0&playerRating=&stateId=All&pageNo=0&area=commitments


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## NoGoal

PLSAP said:


> And the Adidas contract ends this summer, correct? About the shoe thing, does UA produce high top boots? I've searched their website to no avail. I'd explain my thinking but you probably know the value (at least I have found) in a player's boot (i.e. fit, style, etc), but I'm not saying that the boot makes the player by any means. And I definitely share the same belief, if it's free it's free. Also, I know that a lot of contracts have the "leeway" where if a player is having problems with their feet due to the product, they can wear another brand only if the brand is (depending on the contract) either covered/hidden or covered with a sticker for the respective brand. I believe at Oregon, Nike had stated that should the player have problems they will do their best to adapt/personalize the shoe to that specific player's needs, but if ultimately it doesn't work, the above goes into effect.


My DD prefers Nike, but I'm sure if Lululemon got into the jersey business.  She would rather have that over Nike.


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## MakeAPlay

SocalSoccerMom said:


> I was looking at c/o 2020 o
> https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/search/?query=&genderId=f&graduationYear=2020&positionId=0&playerRating=&stateId=All&pageNo=0&area=commitments


Lot's of the other 3 regions represented on that list.  Those are high school freshmen so it is kinda crazy that there are so many committed players that haven't even completed 2 semesters of high school.  Personally I think that they are playing with fire as freshmen are far from finished products.  The only one that is close to being a lock (meaning a top player by the time she is 18) is JC (and she was on the U17 WNT and might be an older freshman).


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## MakeAPlay

PLSAP said:


> And the Adidas contract ends this summer, correct? About the shoe thing, does UA produce high top boots? I've searched their website to no avail. I'd explain my thinking but you probably know the value (at least I have found) in a player's boot (i.e. fit, style, etc), but I'm not saying that the boot makes the player by any means. And I definitely share the same belief, if it's free it's free. Also, I know that a lot of contracts have the "leeway" where if a player is having problems with their feet due to the product, they can wear another brand only if the brand is (depending on the contract) either covered/hidden or covered with a sticker for the respective brand. I believe at Oregon, Nike had stated that should the player have problems they will do their best to adapt/personalize the shoe to that specific player's needs, but if ultimately it doesn't work, the above goes into effect.


They have options if they don't like the shoes.  I am going to bet that the people at UA are working of something nice for the premier member of their college athletic stable.  UCLA has the best overall athletic program in the nation so I'd imagine they are going to put something worthy of that together.


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