# state cup



## Speed (Sep 13, 2021)

Is it really true that state cup will be played at the end of league? So for orders right before high school season?


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## timbuck (Sep 13, 2021)

State Cup starts during fall player under SoCalSoccer League.  Pool play is 5 games. 3 of them during the fall season.  2 of them after the high school break.  If you make it out of pool play, there are elimination rounds after that.
Apparently if you play in SoCal League - you are mandated to play in State Cup. 
I got an email from the league the other day that a lot of teams haven't registered to play yet.  The deadline was 8/31.  First proposed play date is 9/25 for 05 and older.

 I don't know anyone that is excited about it.  For the older age groups that aren't ECNL-  players and families would prefer less games and an actual end to the season right before HS soccer starts. And then maybe play a little bit in Spring.

Overall State Cup Info: http://www.socalstatecup.com/

SoCal Soccer League Calendar:  http://www.socalstatecup.com/_files/Revised Calendar of Events 8_20_21.pdf
(Look for your age group and what division you play in to see the proposed State Cup play dates)


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## lafalafa (Sep 14, 2021)

League cup but let's call it a state cup and get that extra $700 out of teams.   Doubt any non socal league teams going to pay that 1k for a tournament not many care about.

Let's drag it out over the months after the fall so we can say there is spring play.

If a team does well top 2 maybe get to play in the new California Cup tournament vs Nocal teams.  This is equivalent to playing flight 2 in a major tournament like Surf, Vegas, etc.

The marketing and pseudo names are good with this one but I don't know if that's about it?


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## espola (Sep 14, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> League cup but let's call it a state cup and get that extra $700 out of teams.   Doubt any non socal league teams going to pay that 1k for a tournament not many care about.
> 
> Let's drag it out over the months after the fall so we can say there is spring play.
> 
> ...


How does the $700 compare with the Cal South State Cup entry fees?  Is there an additional cost (apart from the travel costs) to play in the California Cup, or is that covered already in the $700?


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## lafalafa (Sep 14, 2021)

espola said:


> How does the $700 compare with the Cal South State Cup entry fees?  Is there an additional cost (apart from the travel costs) to play in the California Cup, or is that covered already in the $700?


$700 is just for league members, 1k for outsiders.

CS state cup ~$700 and national cup ~ 1k.  At least with those tournaments you had large numbers in the past and good chance of playing teams your don't normally play in league. If you advance you get to go to regionals and get a travel snippet. 

The Cal Cup I'm going to assume is not a additional cost to enter but there are travel costs for the 08-13' groups since they have to travel to Nocal to play late March.

For the olders nocal teams have to travel down to Socal to play in that.   To return that favor there is a Nocal showcase that is a cost item that Socal teams can travel to in late April..

Having a tournament play out  in June like the Cal Cup is a interesting choice and the state/league cup in mid May for the olders.   By June not sure that many will still be interested in that, Nocal teams might be light numbers.

Overall doesn't seem like this is setup to favor players with a haphazard disconnected schedule.  Finish league, play a tournament when teams are in form would be a better more together solution but this is just really more of the same old formula that the clubs may like to retain players full-time to give them something to hold on to.


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## timbuck (Sep 14, 2021)

State Cup was really cool when the kids are in middle school and younger.  The sweatshirt; the big tournament feel; heck- even the drive and staying in Lancaster were kinda fun.
But after 9th grade-  The luster is gone.  The last few years-  You were pretty much guaranteed a game to be played at the beginning or end of Spring Break - Parents realize they only have a few years left with their high school kids and the chance to take a spring break vacation (or visit colleges) is more important than a tournament that doesn't mean much.

I haven't compared the new schedule to Spring Break yet-  But I do know that having 3 extra games during the Fall season isn't preferred (By me- at least).


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## espola (Sep 14, 2021)

timbuck said:


> State Cup was really cool when the kids are in middle school and younger.  The sweatshirt; the big tournament feel; heck- even the drive and staying in Lancaster were kinda fun.
> But after 9th grade-  The luster is gone.  The last few years-  You were pretty much guaranteed a game to be played at the beginning or end of Spring Break - Parents realize they only have a few years left with their high school kids and the chance to take a spring break vacation (or visit colleges) is more important than a tournament that doesn't mean much.
> 
> I haven't compared the new schedule to Spring Break yet-  But I do know that having 3 extra games during the Fall season isn't preferred (By me- at least).


I learned so much about Lancaster and Palmdale in those days.  One odd feature was the elimination weekends - if you won on Saturday, you had a game on Sunday, so there was cellphone scrambling to find a place for Saturday night.


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## D8958 (Sep 14, 2021)

timbuck said:


> State Cup was really cool when the kids are in middle school and younger.  The sweatshirt; the big tournament feel; heck- even the drive and staying in Lancaster were kinda fun.
> But after 9th grade-  The luster is gone.  The last few years-  You were pretty much guaranteed a game to be played at the beginning or end of Spring Break - Parents realize they only have a few years left with their high school kids and the chance to take a spring break vacation (or visit colleges) is more important than a tournament that doesn't mean much.
> 
> I haven't compared the new schedule to Spring Break yet-  But I do know that having 3 extra games during the Fall season isn't preferred (By me- at least).


16 League games is nuts, not to mention the ridiculous single January game on the youngers league schedules. Between that schedule, State Cup and allowing 2 games in one Day and players to play down, time to buy Coast, sell Socal.


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## Brav520 (Sep 14, 2021)

how many teams in CSL are going to join State Cup do we think?

the fact that they keep extending the deadline makes me think they aren't getting the participation that they envisioned.

Though, my understanding is this is mandatory for anyone in F2 or above. So, it could be the F3 and F4 participation is way down.


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## lafalafa (Sep 14, 2021)

Brav520 said:


> how many teams in CSL are going to join State Cup do we think?
> 
> the fact that they keep extending the deadline makes me think they aren't getting the participation that they envisioned.
> 
> Though, my understanding is this is mandatory for anyone in F2 or above. So, it could be the F3 and F4 participation is way down.


Very few since they would also need to have US CLUB SOCCER player and staff cards to participate.

Registration doesn't come cheaply and why would they bother for a new tournament where you have to play part of group play in fall, part later in winter or spring, elimination rounds all over the calendar, with a June tournament later if you did well in the first one.  

Could end up just  like the socal SCDSL showcases did,  light turnout and very few players really into them.  

Likely there are much better competitive  tournaments to spend your $ & time with that actually have good turnouts and coaches that come out to see players.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 14, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Very few since they would also need to have US CLUB SOCCER player and staff cards to participate.
> 
> Registration doesn't come cheaply and why would they bother for a new tournament where you have to play part of group play in fall, part later in winter or spring, elimination rounds all over the calendar, with a June tournament later if you did well in the first one.
> 
> ...


My understanding that 1st SoCal showcase on Nov 13-14 is in NorCal.


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## lafalafa (Sep 14, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> My understanding that 1st SoCal showcase on Nov 13-14 is in NorCal.


For olders boys that play in discovery, girls is the following but that's not state/league cup just a new Nocal NPL showcase.

The real thanksgiving showcases are where the coaches will be spending there time &  travel on @ Surf, Silverlakes, and all the other ones.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 14, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> For olders boys that play in discovery, girls is the following but that's not state/league cup just a new Nocal NPL showcase.
> 
> The real thanksgiving showcases are where the coaches will be spending there time &  travel on @ Surf, Silverlakes, and all the other ones.


I also understand that this Showcase is not required to attend


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## timbuck (Sep 14, 2021)

This was the email that was sent to the 03/04 Age Group the other day:

_To all Club Officials and Team Contacts:

These email address the G2003/04 Discovery, Flight 1 and Flight 2 teams and registration for the SOCAL State Cup -

As you may or may not be aware, State Cup is required for all Discovery NPL, Flight 1 and Flight 2 teams. After reviewing registration, there are A LOT of teams that still have not registered for State Cup and the event starts for these birth years on September 25 so it's crucial that clubs make sure your teams get registered. I have reopened State CUp registration. CLICK HERE to register your team.* Registration is open until 9/14 at 9pm.

Below are the teams that ARE registered for State Cup.* If you (as Club Officials or Team Contacts) do NOT see your team(s) on the list below then *you have not registered and this MUST be done by the deadline above.* The fee is $700 for 5-games guaranteed. All teams must register themselves, SOCAL does not register your teams for you. The Cup level the team has registered for is listed on the far right.

At this time, only payment via credit card, when you register, will be accepted. We are past the deadline for submitting payment by check.

So, if you are receiving this email and you do not see your team(s) listed below then you need to register ASAP!"_

Then it listed out the teams that have registered so far.  I counted 113 teams.
When I add up the number of teams in Discovery (50), F1 (37), F2 (21) for this age group-  It comes out to 108 teams.
I did see a few ECNL RL teams registered.  No idea if any teams from Coast or other leagues have entered.  
Based on this math-  Most teams appear to have registered for this age group.


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## lafalafa (Sep 14, 2021)

timbuck said:


> This was the email that was sent to the 03/04 Age Group the other day:
> 
> _To all Club Officials and Team Contacts:
> 
> ...


113x700 ~ $80k  X 2 (boys+ girls) = 160k per Group @ 6 age groups and that's a nice cool  close to *$1$ million in fees to play in league cup.  *nah it's not about the $ were doing this for.....


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## timbuck (Sep 14, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> 113x700 ~ $80k  X 2 (boys+ girls) = 160k per Group @ 6 age groups and that's a nice cool  close to *$1$ million in fees to play in league cup.  *nah it's not about the $ were doing this for.....


I'm sure it's not free to put on.  But it's an unnecessary expense and an unnecessary time suck.
I think the pitch on this new league/new format was "More games for less money."  I'm not sure who was asking for more games.


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## lafalafa (Sep 14, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I'm sure it's not free to put on.  But it's an unnecessary expense and an unnecessary time suck.
> I think the pitch on this new league/new format was "More games for less money."  I'm not sure who was asking for more games.


Yeah in reality you're not getting more games for less getting the same thing  with inconvenient schedules at some far away  complexes they have contracts with..

For more meaningful games or exposure can always play in the multitude of different tournaments or a real  spring League where you can get 10 or so games and bulid towards postseason that way.


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## watfly (Sep 14, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Yeah in reality you're not getting more games for less getting the same thing  with inconvenient schedules at some far away  complexes they have contracts with..
> 
> For more meaningful games or exposure can always play in the multitude of different tournaments or a real  spring League where you can get 10 or so games and bulid towards postseason that way.


Yeah, but then there are going to be teams that can't claim they were State Champions or State Finalists.


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## Speed (Sep 14, 2021)

timbuck said:


> State Cup starts during fall player under SoCalSoccer League.  Pool play is 5 games. 3 of them during the fall season.  2 of them after the high school break.  If you make it out of pool play, there are elimination rounds after that.
> Apparently if you play in SoCal League - you are mandated to play in State Cup.
> I got an email from the league the other day that a lot of teams haven't registered to play yet.  The deadline was 8/31.  First proposed play date is 9/25 for 05 and older.
> 
> ...


Super helpful thank you. I fall under the not excited and don't want to do it category


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## timbuck (Sep 15, 2021)

Speed said:


> Super helpful thank you. I fall under the not excited and don't want to do it category


I wonder what the forfeit to games actually played ratio will look like.  Especially for the Spring games.


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## Soccermom18 (Sep 15, 2021)

I hope we aren't playing any of the teams we are playing during the fall league games for a state cup game....


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## timbuck (Sep 15, 2021)

Soccermom18 said:


> I hope we aren't playing any of the teams we are playing during the fall league games for a state cup game....


I think their plan would be to have you play against teams from other geo groups within a similar flight that you are playing in now.


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## Brav520 (Sep 15, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I wonder what the forfeit to games actually played ratio will look like.  Especially for the Spring games.


I’d be lying if I wansnt concerned about burnout

I wonder how many other parents feel the same way for a kid that isn’t playing for one of the big clubs, for a flight 1 level team

how many parents and more importantly kids say “I like soccer , but not 2x a week practice and a game every Saturday and Sunday”

Id say 80% of the parents were for state cup, but this was before the schedule came out

how many players will quit , will we have enough players to field a team next year . Those are some of my concern s specifically


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## dreamz (Sep 19, 2021)

Link to accepted teams for Socal State Cup ACCEPTED TEAMS


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## pitchcrazy (Sep 19, 2021)

This absolutely a garbage tournament.  We are in RL and most of the RL teams are avoiding.  3 out of the 5 games conflict with our RL schedule and there are Europa teams in the super bracket.  How on earth is this benefiting our kids?  Not too mention I guarantee all the games will be 100 miles away.  Another poor decision by the numb nuts at the top.  I’m sure the 3 RL games are home games so we will lose more home games again this year.  Covid and the leaders of all these new leagues have destroyed our soccer experience as we get closer and closer to aging out…


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## timbuck (Sep 20, 2021)

Is anyone excited about this "tournament" starting this coming weekend for 05 and older teams?
Not me.  
The "League" is going to force a lot more kids and referees to quit the game with some of the things they've put in place this year.

But they sure did make cool new state cup sweatshirts.


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## espola (Sep 20, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Is anyone excited about this "tournament" starting this coming weekend for 05 and older teams?
> Not me.
> The "League" is going to force a lot more kids and referees to quit the game with some of the things they've put in place this year.
> 
> But they sure did make cool new state cup sweatshirts.


What things, for example?


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## lafalafa (Sep 20, 2021)

pitchcrazy said:


> This absolutely a garbage tournament.  We are in RL and most of the RL teams are avoiding.  3 out of the 5 games conflict with our RL schedule and there are Europa teams in the super bracket.  How on earth is this benefiting our kids?  Not too mention I guarantee all the games will be 100 miles away.  Another poor decision by the numb nuts at the top.  I’m sure the 3 RL games are home games so we will lose more home games again this year.  Covid and the leaders of all these new leagues have destroyed our soccer experience as we get closer and closer to aging out…


ECRL has their own event &  postseason/playoffs this season 21-22' in June at Oceanside where all the scouts / coaches will be in conjunction with the ECNL and those playoffs held at the same time.

If  ECRL teams are entering this league cup they maybe sandbagging or thinking their team isn't good enough to qualify for the RL post season (top 2 normally for the Socal or SW groups).


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## timbuck (Sep 20, 2021)

espola said:


> What things, for example?


Maybe the younger age groups feel differently.  This is my perspective from the older side of things (07 and above)

Discovery League is stupid.  I think this was billed as a way to "have all of the top teams in the same place to make it easier for college scouts."
Has anyone seen a college scout yet?
The drive to Del Mar/Oceanside every weekend sucks.  Im sure teams going to Silverlakes feel the same way.  It's at least an hour from South OC.  $12 to park and then you need a $20 car wash on Monday from the dusty parking lots.
A club should only be allowed to 1 have team in Discovery per age group.
Why is there a 2009 discovery league?  There is 8 teams in the 2009 age group.  1 from Vegas. 2 from Beach.

I heard from a referee that they are pissed at the league and they have screwed things up.  I didn't get into specifics with him, but I did see an email come out Sunday afternoon somewhat addressing that there is an issue they are trying to fix.  A few snippets (happy to post the entire letter if you'd like):
_Prior to the start of the season, the State Referee Assocation (SRA) presented a new process for assigning referees. With the shortage in referees and many not returning to officiate post-COVID, the associations are stretched thin and working at about 50% capacity. The process that was introduced was meant to streamline game assigning utilizing the officials that are available in the best way possible._
_Fast forward two weeks into the season and there are some very visable kinks in the process. The assigning process has become muddled and confusing and I am accutely aware of the issues we are dealing with in regards to referees not being assigned or not showing up to games at the wrong venues or the wrong times._
_Our schedule is a fluid schedule. There are game changes every week for various reasons. Mostly due to field permits either being double-booked by the venues with multiple sports or organizations, school districts not issuing permits or changing permits, etc. There are many reasons why games change and it's become difficult for the lead distributors to keep up with the changes each week. While everyone was hopeful (me included) that this new process would work, there are still some things to work through and I think re-visiting it and putting together a proper plan before implementing it would be best for everyonemoving forward. _

State Cup-  I mentioned a few things above, but I'll add some more
Making it Mandatory
Starting pool play during the 3rd week of the season. And ending it in April.  Our last 2 games of State Cup pool play are the 1st weekend of our districts Spring Break. I dont know how many HS players are going to be excited to play in Spring.  The winning team might be the one that shows up with a full team in April.
I have to imagine getting teams registered and scheduled for State Cup while in the beginning weeks of the Fall season hasn't been easy for the SoCalLeague staff, venues and referee associations.

League Stuff
The process of getting new player cards was a mess.  It always is when changing to something new. I know some registrars that had to cancel weekend vacations to make sure everyone was properly registered.
I mentioned refs above- We had 3 at our Saturday game and they were solid. We had 1 at our Sunday game.
Thinking that players/families want "more games" during the Fall Season and continuing into Spring.  Scheduling games on back-to-back days for kids that are playing 90 minute games.  Our 04 team plays on 4 back-to-back weekends. For players not on ecnl/GA rosters at this age group-  They are working on weekends or maybe playing another sport. They can get 1 day off but harder to get the whole weekend.  (I know this isn't a new problem this year and playing 2 games in a weekend isn't unique-  But that doesn't mean the league shouldn't consider this.)
We have 12 games before the November break. 10 games would have been fine

There are "no-play" dates for ACT testing in September, SAT test in November and again in March.  Since California schools aren't requiring these tests anymore-  Why not play on these days?  Sure- some players might still want to take it for out-of-state schools- So let those players miss the test if they need to.  This would eliminate 2 of our 4 back to back weekend games.


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## Venantsyo (Sep 20, 2021)

Ref was a no show at my 05’s (Flight 1) game Saturday morning. Luckily a parent was a ref and game could go on.
09’s (Discovery) had just 1.


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## lafalafa (Sep 20, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Maybe the younger age groups feel differently.  This is my perspective from the older side of things (07 and above)
> 
> Discovery League is stupid.  I think this was billed as a way to "have all of the top teams in the same place to make it easier for college scouts."
> Has anyone seen a college scout yet?
> ...


I'm sure there is more but the socal league has obviously "bitten off way more than they can chew" and the wishful marketing is not lived up to the promise's yet.

Using the same old CS state cup formula where you play months after the season is over means they have learned nothing or done very little to address the continuity Gap.

Teams play a fall season and should be in prime form to play a fall or winter tournaments soon after.  Make it November before High school season and be done with it.   League cup finishes in Nov in CSL and there are really no great reasons to drag it out besides $$.

Forget the nonsense of playing a few games in winter, spring, some new showcase that nobody really cares about and play a regular optional spring that's counts for something like qualification into a season ending tournament.

The conflicting part winter part spring schedule with another gap for a June tournament thats now on schedule doesn't make any sense for players.  It's either a way for clubs or leagues to say they have year around programs and/or a $$ grab.


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## pitchcrazy (Sep 20, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Is anyone excited about this "tournament" starting this coming weekend for 05 and older teams?
> Not me.
> The "League" is going to force a lot more kids and referees to quit the game with some of the things they've put in place this year.
> 
> But they sure did make cool new state cup sweatshirts.


it’s all about money!  Their website says no Europa teams but I think the whole bracket is in there.  We get to drive 126 miles to beat a team 10-0.  That is a joke.


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## Speed (Sep 20, 2021)

I 


timbuck said:


> Maybe the younger age groups feel differently.  This is my perspective from the older side of things (07 and above)
> 
> Discovery League is stupid.  I think this was billed as a way to "have all of the top teams in the same place to make it easier for college scouts."
> Has anyone seen a college scout yet?
> ...


I would love to see the whole email in regards to the referees. I agree with all that was stated here. we are discovery family too. Too many games in short period of time, unnecessary driving, this is going to burn kids out having to be gone every day of the weekend for 7 hours to play one game because they are traveling so far.  I also can't imagine coaches are enjoying this either. we are a 05 discovery and the coach has 4 teams. this next weekend we are at silver lakes and galway. another weekend we have a 4pm game then a 8 am game both at silver lakes. Little recovery. Add the kids playing hs soccer and this is a disaster for the players and injuries.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 20, 2021)

As a parent I’ve heard every year for the past 10 years that there’s not enough games in the fall.   Now we have tons and people still complain.
ECRL teams shouldn’t complain about competition because there’s some very good flight 1 discovery teams out there.  I do think you will see some top coast soccer league teams participate.  

Ref shortage is the biggest issue for all teams so parents and coaches need to stop acting like idiots with the refs. Nobody cares about a bad call that’s going to ruin your team’s record. It’s youth soccer not the World Cup.
Everyone just go with it. Last year you were all complaining about no games due to covid.


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## timbuck (Sep 20, 2021)

(Cut and paste of the email. Typos are not mine. But I make plenty of them, so no shade from me about it)

To all SOCAL Team Contacts and Club Officials
Prior to the start of the season, the State Referee Assocation (SRA) presented a new process for assigning referees. With the shortage in referees and many not returning to officiate post-COVID, the associations are stretched thin and working at about 50% capacity. The process that was introduced was meant to streamline game assigning utilizing the officials that are available in the best way possible.
To briefly summarize the plan, it required me to send our master schedule to one leader at the SRA who would distribute the games to 5 Distributors in different districts. These distributors would then spread the games out to all of the associations registered under the SRA so that more associations were involved and therefore we were working with a larger pool of available referees. Then, if referees did not show up, Club Officials could contact the Distirbutors who would track the games, referees that did not show up or problem referees that needed mentorship. In theory, it sounded like a win-win for everyone.
Fast forward two weeks into the season and there are some very visable kinks in the process. The assigning process has become muddled and confusing and I am accutely aware of the issues we are dealing with in regards to referees not being assigned or not showing up to games at the wrong venues or the wrong times.
Our schedule is a fluid schedule. There are game changes every week for various reasons. Mostly due to field permits either being double-booked by the venues with multiple sports or organizations, school districts not issuing permits or changing permits, etc. There are many reasons why games change and it's become difficult for the lead distributors to keep up with the changes each week. While everyone was hopeful (me included) that this new process would work, there are still some things to work through and I think re-visiting it and putting together a proper plan before implementing it would be best for everyonemoving forward.
So, we are going to go back to the way we were doing things in regards to assinging games. I don't need to bore you with the details but, in speaking with the assignors, this is going to be a better way of managing game assigning moving forward. For Club Officials, there is no need to call the Distributors anymore. For Team Managers and Coaches, if there is an issue at the field then please contact your Club Officials who will contact me.
However, this doesn't solve the referee shortage. We have aseembled a committee that is working on a Call to Action within our own league on how we can be part of the solution - together and we look to roll-out this Call to Action prior to games starting up again in January. Until then, for the 7v7 and 9v9 games, if there are single games at your venue, you may not have a referee so please continue to have your coaches or a parent officiate your games. For 11v11 games we are focused on having at least 1 official at each game, as long as there is more than 1 game on your field for that day. For Discovery games and State Cup 11v11 games, we are instructing the assignors to provide 3 officials for these games moving forward.
*Clubs* - please review your home schedules. If there are single games, send me a list of them and I'll look to reschedule them to dates where you have more than 1 team playing at home.
*Teams* - you will see fewer and fewer reschedules as the season goes on. We don't reschedule for coaching conflicts, special events or matters of convenience. Please do not reach out to the opposing coach and work together and then submit game changes. These create problems for assignors, they create gaps in schedules and they are impossible to accommodate for everyone that asks so please, work within your club to resolve whatever coach conflicts you have and utilize the club pass to get players to help you in games where you are short players.
I have asked the assignors to let me know, in advance, of any games they can not cover so that I can look to reschedule the game prior to the teams showing up.
Reschedules will only happen for field permit issues or positive COVID cases on a team. You may also be asked to prove this so please do not use COVID as a reason to reschedule games. COVID is a deadly disease, not an excuse to reschedule a game due to a coaching conflict.
Thank you for reading this as I hope this helps you all to understand the 'behind-the-scenes' goings on and why there seem to be more referee issues than in year's past.
We have every intention of making the rest of the season the best of the season!
Michelle
You are receiving this email because you are associated with SOCAL.
To be removed, please contact your League Administrator.


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## soccersc (Sep 21, 2021)

pitchcrazy said:


> it’s all about money!  Their website says no Europa teams but I think the whole bracket is in there.  We get to drive 126 miles to beat a team 10-0.  That is a joke.


I agree it is definitely about the money, but I also think its about trying to keep kids from jumping ship before the season is over (Remember this league is run by the DOC's now) when league used to end in November and state cup was after the new year, it always created a weird dynamic when kids would leave technically before the season was over.  Now I think they are trying to stretch the season, so they can hold onto cards and make it difficult for players to transfer until the end of the season. Clubs want all the power, that is why they went to U.S. Soccer


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## Speed (Sep 21, 2021)

thank y


timbuck said:


> (Cut and paste of the email. Typos are not mine. But I make plenty of them, so no shade from me about it)
> 
> To all SOCAL Team Contacts and Club Officials
> Prior to the start of the season, the State Referee Assocation (SRA) presented a new process for assigning referees. With the shortage in referees and many not returning to officiate post-COVID, the associations are stretched thin and working at about 50% capacity. The process that was introduced was meant to streamline game assigning utilizing the officials that are available in the best way possible.
> ...


Thank you, Michelle has toned down her emails....or maybe not far enough into the season...no bold, caps, highlighting....I used to love receiving the emails because the emotion came through the email.


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## timbuck (Sep 21, 2021)

Speed said:


> thank y
> 
> 
> Thank you, Michelle has toned down her emails....or maybe not far enough into the season...no bold, caps, highlighting....I used to love receiving the emails because the emotion came through the email.


*Glad to *know I wasn't the _only one_ that APPRECIATED her serial killer style of email!!!


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## pitchcrazy (Sep 21, 2021)

soccersc said:


> I agree it is definitely about the money, but I also think its about trying to keep kids from jumping ship before the season is over (Remember this league is run by the DOC's now) when league used to end in November and state cup was after the new year, it always created a weird dynamic when kids would leave technically before the season was over.  Now I think they are trying to stretch the season, so they can hold onto cards and make it difficult for players to transfer until the end of the season. Clubs want all the power, that is why they went to U.S. Soccer


I think it’s because they saw all the money cal south was making and now want their piece since cal south won’t let them play in their state cup.  I don’t see any CSL teams in there.


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## pitchcrazy (Sep 21, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> As a parent I’ve heard every year for the past 10 years that there’s not enough games in the fall.   Now we have tons and people still complain.
> ECRL teams shouldn’t complain about competition because there’s some very good flight 1 discovery teams out there.  I do think you will see some top coast soccer league teams participate.
> 
> Ref shortage is the biggest issue for all teams so parents and coaches need to stop acting like idiots with the refs. Nobody cares about a bad call that’s going to ruin your team’s record. It’s youth soccer not the World Cup.
> Everyone just go with it. Last year you were all complaining about no games due to covid.


CSL teams will not compete.  They got their seasons scheduled and they will not adjust to be in this stupid tournament plus their allegiance is to CAL South.  SoCal broke that alliance and some clubs were rejected by cal south.  This I pay back and all about money.  Quantity over quality doesn’t work.  We can scrimmage better teams in our own backyard


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## SoccerFan4Life (Sep 21, 2021)

pitchcrazy said:


> CSL teams will not compete.  They got their seasons scheduled and they will not adjust to be in this stupid tournament plus their allegiance is to CAL South.  SoCal broke that alliance and some clubs were rejected by cal south.  This I pay back and all about money.  Quantity over quality doesn’t work.  We can scrimmage better teams in our own backyard


Boys side there’s some great teams in coast soccer.   On the girl’s side socal has the better teams.  
I do agree that socal did what was best for them.

 You also need to keep in mind that calsouth did nothing during covid.   Baseball and volleyball teams were playing and petitioning to the state.  Calsouth didn’t take any actions.  There comes a point when businesses need to adjust the changing landscape.  That’s on calsouth for screwing up.


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## timbuck (Sep 22, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Boys side there’s some great teams in coast soccer.   On the girl’s side socal has the better teams.
> I do agree that socal did what was best for them.
> 
> You also need to keep in mind that calsouth did nothing during covid.   Baseball and volleyball teams were playing and petitioning to the state.  Calsouth didn’t take any actions.  *There comes a point when businesses need to adjust the changing landscape.*  That’s on calsouth for screwing up.


I agree 100%.  I wish the big pause that we had in soccer could have given us a big reset to fix the mess of too many leagues, too many flights, too much travel and not enough referees.
Instead- We went the opposite direction.


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## KJR (Sep 22, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I agree 100%.  I wish the big pause that we had in soccer could have given us a big reset to fix the mess of too many leagues, too many flights, too much travel and not enough referees.
> Instead- We went the opposite direction.


Absolutely. And the problem, of course, is who "we" are. Any number of people here could have pitched a more coherent, equitable SoCal youth soccer structure to put into place last year (some of us did!) But who, ultimately, would be empowered to implement it? Who would collect the fees? Cal South has seen its influence sapped by its own missteps and by superclubs seeing an opportunity to make money with competing leagues under US Soccer. It was a land rush. So here we are, driving five hours for league games with one ref.

I don't blame anyone specifically. Cal South has some very well-intentioned people, but it's like turning an aircraft carrier -- plus it's squandered too much leverage and good will to force people to the table. And the big clubs are big businesses that have their own momentum.

But yeah, it would have been nice for all of these "youth soccer people" to have put their self-interest and history aside to at least _talk_ about a better way. Take a half step towards some SoCal Das Reboot.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 22, 2021)

KJR said:


> Absolutely. And the problem, of course, is who "we" are. Any number of people here could have pitched a more coherent, equitable SoCal youth soccer structure to put into place last year (some of us did!) But who, ultimately, would be empowered to implement it? Who would collect the fees? Cal South has seen its influence sapped by its own missteps and by superclubs seeing an opportunity to make money with competing leagues under US Soccer. It was a land rush. So here we are, driving five hours for league games with one ref.
> 
> I don't blame anyone specifically. Cal South has some very well-intentioned people, but it's like turning an aircraft carrier -- plus it's squandered too much leverage and good will to force people to the table. And the big clubs are big businesses that have their own momentum.
> 
> But yeah, it would have been nice for all of these "youth soccer people" to have put their self-interest and history aside to at least _talk_ about a better way. Take a half step towards some SoCal Das Reboot.


Would that be nice.....I think we reached the point of no return, until it will correct itself out eventually.


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## espola (Sep 22, 2021)

KJR said:


> Absolutely. And the problem, of course, is who "we" are. Any number of people here could have pitched a more coherent, equitable SoCal youth soccer structure to put into place last year (some of us did!) But who, ultimately, would be empowered to implement it? Who would collect the fees? Cal South has seen its influence sapped by its own missteps and by superclubs seeing an opportunity to make money with competing leagues under US Soccer. It was a land rush. So here we are, driving five hours for league games with one ref.
> 
> I don't blame anyone specifically. Cal South has some very well-intentioned people, but it's like turning an aircraft carrier -- plus it's squandered too much leverage and good will to force people to the table. And the big clubs are big businesses that have their own momentum.
> 
> But yeah, it would have been nice for all of these "youth soccer people" to have put their self-interest and history aside to at least _talk_ about a better way. Take a half step towards some SoCal Das Reboot.


When my kids were playing under the Cal South system, I only wanted to see it work well enough so that they had meaningful and enjoyable opportunities to play.  I heard rumblings from Cal South insiders about things that happened behind closed doors, but without more details they were hard to believe.  Now I am more skeptical of whatever Cal South does.

As it is, we are left with a ridiculous hodgepodge of organizations that won't co-operate with each other, leaving it up to club and team managers to navigate through the season.


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## lafalafa (Sep 22, 2021)

State cups have "jumped the shark" a while back and the Socal league cup is more of the same but likely worse since you're paying extra to play the SAME teams again.

Meanwhile UPSL is taking off in Socal with LAFC academy,  Pats, Golden State and others fielding U19s vs men since MLS-NEXT and ECXx just doesn't have the completion past U17 or any real paths forward unless you just going for college. 

Past U17 the the numbers of truly competitive teams have a really big drop off and it's hard for most clubs to develop past that age, MLS-NEXT recognizes this and pretty much has thrown in the towel on playing those ages vs any regular clubs.   The new MLS 2 league, USL, and UPSL will be taking over that space for the boys on the top end and these other letter youth league will be 2nd or no choice for them.


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## timbuck (Sep 23, 2021)

This weekend is the first weekend of State Cup for 05 and 04/03 Teams.
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread- SoCal League made State Cup MANDATORY for anyone Flight  and above.
The cost was $700 per team to enter. A forfeit costs an extra $250 plus all referee fees
You can find all of the rules here:  http://www.socalstatecup.com/_files/SOCAL STATE CUP Handbook V1.pdf
If you forfeit one game, you forfeit all of your State Cup Games.  Not sure if that means you need to pay the fine and ref fees for all 5 games (I assume it's just 1 time)
As of today, I see the following forfeits:
G05 Super Cup: 0
G05 Elite: 2
G05 Classic: 0 - But only 9 teams in this group

G04/03 Super Cup: 1
G04/03 Elite: 1
G04/03:  0 - But only 5 teams in this group

Not a TON of forfeits- But for those 4 teams that did-  They wasted about $1,000 on a tournament they probably had no intention of playing in.  I'm sure there are others that have better use for the time and money of this tournament during the Fall season.  

I do think there needs to be a consequence for forfeiting a game-  Otherwise you'd see it a lot more.  But don't make the tournament "mandatory".  (What is this, Russia/China/Afghanistan?)


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## focomoso (Sep 24, 2021)

dreamz said:


> Link to accepted teams for Socal State Cup ACCEPTED TEAMS


Should we congratulate Rebels SC B2015 Elite Flores (CA) now for winning the U15 group as they're the only team...?


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## lafalafa (Oct 22, 2021)

So how's things going so far?

Heard some grumblings about last minute scheduling, teams not showing up, uneven comp,  etc but what you're experience been so far?


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## timbuck (Oct 22, 2021)

I'm hoping for rain on 10/31.


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## Speed (Oct 23, 2021)

timbuck said:


> This weekend is the first weekend of State Cup for 05 and 04/03 Teams.
> As mentioned elsewhere in this thread- SoCal League made State Cup MANDATORY for anyone Flight  and above.
> The cost was $700 per team to enter. A forfeit costs an extra $250 plus all referee fees
> You can find all of the rules here:  http://www.socalstatecup.com/_files/SOCAL STATE CUP Handbook V1.pdf
> ...


Seriously the 04/03 teams are seniors, they have a lot on their plates. Dumb to have mandatory for any team but esp this group


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## Brav520 (Oct 23, 2021)

Galway downs provides tents for both teams?


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## Soccermom18 (Oct 24, 2021)

Brav520 said:


> Galway downs provides tents for both teams?


We were there last weekend and tents and benches were provided for the teams.


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## timbuck (Oct 24, 2021)

Speed said:


> Seriously the 04/03 teams are seniors, they have a lot on their plates. Dumb to have mandatory for any team but esp this group


I had 3 players today tell me they had to work until after 11:30pm last night.  They were exhausted on the field today.  What are we trying to do to these kids?


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## Code (Oct 26, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I had 3 players today tell me they had to work until after 11:30pm last night.  They were exhausted on the field today.  What are we trying to do to these kids?


This "State Cup" schedule being intigrated into a league season is foolish.  So is splitting the league season around the high school season.  Half of our team had their Homecoming dance Saturday evening during the match; wouldn't let us reschedule to an earlier play time, even thought there was an available field.  But there is no problem with canceling league games due to being double scheduled for a State Cup game or even cancel at the field because there are no refs.  I really hope Socal makes a course correction next year.  I would like to see the league play finish before High School begins.  Perhaps twelve leauge games that feed into a playoff bracket between the top teams from different regions in the same Flight, to be completed before High School starts.  Maybe have the Semi-finals and Finals for the playoffs after the High School season if there is not enough time to fit it all in during fall.  Scrap "State Cup."


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## timbuck (Oct 26, 2021)

Code said:


> This "State Cup" schedule being intigrated into a league season is foolish.  So is splitting the league season around the high school season.  Half of our team had their Homecoming dance Saturday evening during the match; wouldn't let us reschedule to an earlier play time, even thought there was an available field.  But there is no problem with canceling league games due to being double scheduled for a State Cup game or even cancel at the field because there are no refs.  I really hope Socal makes a course correction next year.  I would like to see the league play finish before High School begins.  Perhaps twelve leauge games that feed into a playoff bracket between the top teams from different regions in the same Flight, to be completed before High School starts.  Maybe have the Semi-finals and Finals for the playoffs after the High School season if there is not enough time to fit it all in during fall.  Scrap "State Cup."


I can appreciate what "SoCal League" was trying to do.  I think "on paper", all of their ideas sound pretty solid.
But they didn't plan/think of consequences properly.  They really should have a "parent", "coach" and "referee" committee that they can run things by.

A little thought would have told them that "Since we are back from COVID, many players and families have put sports on the backburner (with the exception of the truly elite league players)."  This should have been a year to ease things back to "normal" - Especially at the high school ages.  HS aged players had a HS and a club season running at the same time during spring.  Then they went straight into HS Summer League and club tournaments.
Referees are in the same boat. There was never enough to go around.  Doubling up the hs and club seasons didn't help. Adding more games for league and state cup has made it worse.  Couple that up with the world being more angry than it was 19 months ago-  It's a disaster.
Discovery League being all played at the same venues sounds great on paper.  Until you have to drive from LA or San Diego each week in worsening traffic and pay $15 to park to watch your kid play.  My kid likes soccer.  She doesn't like spending 5 hours on Saturday and some Sundays driving to a game, playing a game and driving back from a game.  (Neither do I or my wife).
Letting players jump around to rosters and play 2 games in a day was necessary when we came back last Spring (clubs/teams didn't know who was coming back to play and needed to share players between rosters).  Now you have teams using this as an advantage by bringing kids down from a level or 2 above.


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## ajaxahi (Oct 26, 2021)

My daughter’s 2005 Discovery team just found out over the weekend (with 8 days notice) that they will be driving from LA to Oceanside on Halloween morning to play one State Cup game. When asked if the game could be rescheduled, the I am told the league’s response was along the lines of “tough, it’s not our problem… deal with it.” My daughter’s reaction was “that really sucks, all the fun Halloween stuff is happening on Saturday night.“ As usual, the players are just an afterthought. It’s no wonder so many kids quit club soccer at these older ages. I don’t blame them at all. State Cup at this age group, especially with games added on the same weekends as an already busy league schedule, is a stupid idea and just another money maker for the league.


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## Eagle33 (Oct 27, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I can appreciate what "SoCal League" was trying to do.  I think "on paper", all of their ideas sound pretty solid.
> But they didn't plan/think of consequences properly.  They really should have a "parent", "coach" and "referee" committee that they can run things by.
> 
> A little thought would have told them that "Since we are back from COVID, many players and families have put sports on the backburner (with the exception of the truly elite league players)."  This should have been a year to ease things back to "normal" - Especially at the high school ages.  HS aged players had a HS and a club season running at the same time during spring.  Then they went straight into HS Summer League and club tournaments.
> ...


There is no question, that games for Olders should be done before Thanksgiving, like it was before. If they want to play State or National Cup after HS - up to them. For Youngers, you can go until March or whatever - doesn't matter. Even for youngers I would not go into Spring and let them play other sports in Spring. We are trying to re-invent the wheel and it doesn't work. I believe it will eventually correct itself, but not without heavy loses.


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## Soccer Cat (Oct 29, 2021)

ajaxahi said:


> My daughter’s 2005 Discovery team just found out over the weekend (with 8 days notice) that they will be driving from LA to Oceanside on Halloween morning to play one State Cup game. When asked if the game could be rescheduled, the I am told the league’s response was along the lines of “tough, it’s not our problem… deal with it.” My daughter’s reaction was “that really sucks, all the fun Halloween stuff is happening on Saturday night.“ As usual, the players are just an afterthought. It’s no wonder so many kids quit club soccer at these older ages. I don’t blame them at all. State Cup at this age group, especially with games added on the same weekends as an already busy league schedule, is a stupid idea and just another money maker for the league.


My kids team plays over an hour away (Oceanside) late afternoon on Halloween.  Parents are not happy.  The league hasnt even respond to our emails about scheduling conflicts of any kind.  Our coach has a different state cup game at the same time at a different venue.  Overall our team is extremely unhappy with this new league and their mandated state cup.


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## MacDre (Oct 29, 2021)

Soccer Cat said:


> My kids team plays over an hour away (Oceanside) late afternoon on Halloween.  Parents are not happy.  The league hasnt even respond to our emails about scheduling conflicts of any kind.  Our coach has a different state cup game at the same time at a different venue.  Overall our team is extremely unhappy with this new league and their mandated state cup.


Here’s a copy of the leagues official response:


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## Emma (Oct 29, 2021)

Soccer Cat said:


> My kids team plays over an hour away (Oceanside) late afternoon on Halloween.  Parents are not happy.  The league hasnt even respond to our emails about scheduling conflicts of any kind.  Our coach has a different state cup game at the same time at a different venue.  Overall our team is extremely unhappy with this new league and their mandated state cup.


Hopefully SoCal will fix this problem next year and have local games for group stages of State Cup.  Traveling for group stages should be done in 1 weekend at the same location on a non holiday weekend.   It's kinda tough this year juggling scheduling with ref shortages and local field shortages though.


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## lafalafa (Oct 29, 2021)

Emma said:


> Hopefully SoCal will fix this problem next year and have local games for group stages of State Cup.  Traveling for group stages should be done in 1 weekend at the same location on a non holiday weekend.   It's kinda tough this year juggling scheduling with ref shortages and local field shortages though.


That would be nice for families but don't count on that since "league cup" disguised as state cup is a money maker and local fields would likely costs the league more and they can't get any parking revenue.

Those contacts with Silverlakes and other places where they need to fill the fields or be in breach are multi year deals and they don't want to jeopardize those again or give up more revenue.

The league and clubs are working together for their benefits not yours.    Local play would end up costing parents less overall but clubs or leagues more so lots of people are traveling hours and paying parking weekly instead.


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## Emma (Oct 29, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> That would be nice for families but don't count on that since "league cup" disguised as state cup is a money maker and local fields would likely costs the league more and they can't get any parking revenue.
> 
> Those contacts with Silverlakes and other places where they need to fill the fields or be in breach are multi year deals and they don't want to jeopardize those again or give up more revenue.
> 
> The league and clubs are working together for their benefits not yours.    Local play would end up costing parents less overall but clubs or leagues more so lots of people are traveling hours and paying parking weekly instead.


They should just let parents know and then find a way to see how they can keep games local and still be able to meet their contractual obligation to Silverlakes.  Maybe a payoff to silverlakes might be a good idea.  Parents can help pay for this cost.  It's probably a lot cheaper than driving all that way.  If the league is transparent with their numbers, we'd all rather pitch in to help out than drive 2-3 hours and pay for parking. 

It would go something like this - we need X more games at Silverlakes to reach our obligation.  If we pay Silverlakes Y amount, we don't have to have the games there.  It would cost each family W amount of money.  Would your team rather drive up and pay for parking or would you like to save your time and gas money and just pay to help with the contractual obligation?

If people see the number difference, they can decide individually as clubs and teams.


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## timbuck (Oct 29, 2021)

Emma said:


> They should just let parents know and then find a way to see how they can keep games local and still be able to meet their contractual obligation to Silverlakes.  Maybe a payoff to silverlakes might be a good idea.  Parents can help pay for this cost.  It's probably a lot cheaper than driving all that way.  If the league is transparent with their numbers, we'd all rather pitch in to help out than drive 2-3 hours and pay for parking.
> 
> It would go something like this - we need X more games at Silverlakes to reach our obligation.  If we pay Silverlakes Y amount, we don't have to have the games there.  It would cost each family W amount of money.  Would your team rather drive up and pay for parking or would you like to save your time and gas money and just pay to help with the contractual obligation?
> 
> If people see the number difference, they can decide individually as clubs and teams.


Or maybe the league should have thought about this before.
"We get silverlakes, oceanside, del mar for very cheap.  They have a lot of fields.  It will be great."
But "cheap" to the league comes at a cost to players/families.  
Use those fields on an "as needed" basis for clubs that can't get a home field.


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## Soccerdad_562_ (Oct 29, 2021)

Well at least its a better drive to Silverlakes, Oceanside or Del Mar, I still remember driving for Cal South State Cup to Lancaster,  Hesperia or even Coronado.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Oct 29, 2021)

Soccerdad_562_ said:


> Well at least its a better drive to Silverlakes, Oceanside or Del Mar, I still remember driving for Cal South State Cup to Lancaster,  Hesperia or even Coronado.


Isn’t this just one game during the first round?   I get maybe making it optional for flight 2/3 teams but flight 1 and above need to play.   There’s a huge commitment level difference for the top teams.


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## GT45 (Oct 29, 2021)

Discovery NPL teams have it tough. There is no such thing as a home game for Orange County teams (and I am sure others too). All of the league games are at Surf Cup Sports, Oceanside, Galway Downs, or Silverlakes. Then you add in State Cup games, which are played at these exact same venues. There are zero games in Orange County. Even Blues against West Coast (played in San Diego), or Blues against Blues (played in Oceanside). This adds up to at least 4-5 hours per game with driving to, warm up, game, driving home. When you play Saturday and Sunday, it is your entire weekend.

Discovery teams do not have to pay referees, but parents have to pay parking at every game. So it all adds up to the same.


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## Speed (Oct 31, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I can appreciate what "SoCal League" was trying to do.  I think "on paper", all of their ideas sound pretty solid.
> But they didn't plan/think of consequences properly.  They really should have a "parent", "coach" and "referee" committee that they can run things by.
> 
> A little thought would have told them that "Since we are back from COVID, many players and families have put sports on the backburner (with the exception of the truly elite league players)."  This should have been a year to ease things back to "normal" - Especially at the high school ages.  HS aged players had a HS and a club season running at the same time during spring.  Then they went straight into HS Summer League and club tournaments.
> ...


I really like this idea. They should have a parent advisory committee. It is hard when you are stuck in the weeds. I think intentions are good they just don't know what they don't know


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## Speed (Oct 31, 2021)

GT45 said:


> Discovery NPL teams have it tough. There is no such thing as a home game for Orange County teams (and I am sure others too). All of the league games are at Surf Cup Sports, Oceanside, Galway Downs, or Silverlakes. Then you add in State Cup games, which are played at these exact same venues. There are zero games in Orange County. Even Blues against West Coast (played in San Diego), or Blues against Blues (played in Oceanside). This adds up to at least 4-5 hours per game with driving to, warm up, game, driving home. When you play Saturday and Sunday, it is your entire weekend.
> 
> Discovery teams do not have to pay referees, but parents have to pay parking at every game. So it all adds up to the same.


We are sucking in Discovery NPL due to lots of injuries. I agree with all you said and will gladly take the relegation.


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## socalkdg (Nov 1, 2021)

Injuries are the worst.  We were 3 points behind the first place team playing then in our next to last game in CSL.   Up 1-0 through first 25 minutes. Key defender twists her ankle really badly, carried off, passed out, taken to hospital,  ok now.     Girls just lost their edge when she went down, both goals might have been averted if she had still been there.   Lost 2-1.

I was talking to one team manager of 05 Discovery team and they had their first game cancelled and the next two games forfeit wins.


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## Primetime (Nov 2, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> That would be nice for families but don't count on that since "league cup" disguised as state cup is a money maker and local fields would likely costs the league more and they can't get any parking revenue.
> 
> Those contacts with Silverlakes and other places where they need to fill the fields or be in breach are multi year deals and they don't want to jeopardize those again or give up more revenue.
> 
> The league and clubs are working together for their benefits not yours.    Local play would end up costing parents less overall but clubs or leagues more so lots of people are traveling hours and paying parking weekly instead.


What local venues are they supposed to play at ? Great Park would be only one that would work.  They can't have the event at 36 2-3 field locations.  I think overall it’s a small minority that have gripes about the locations.  Plus depended where you live.  We live right on the LA/OC border and we have no complaints about Silverlakes or Oceanside on any of our teams.  A couple grunts about Galway but that’s about it.   Most people appreciate the field quality at those venues and understand that kinda travel is part of errrrrrr travel ball.   And again depends where you live.   If your from San Clemente or SD than Oceanside is no big deal.  Of your from Santa Clarita that’s gonna suck but then again you can’t move to Santa Clarita and except convenience when it comes to travel.


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## paytoplay (Nov 2, 2021)

GT45 said:


> Discovery NPL teams have it tough. There is no such thing as a home game for Orange County teams (and I am sure others too). All of the league games are at Surf Cup Sports, Oceanside, Galway Downs, or Silverlakes. Then you add in State Cup games, which are played at these exact same venues. There are zero games in Orange County. Even Blues against West Coast (played in San Diego), or Blues against Blues (played in Oceanside). This adds up to at least 4-5 hours per game with driving to, warm up, game, driving home. When you play Saturday and Sunday, it is your entire weekend.
> 
> Discovery teams do not have to pay referees, but parents have to pay parking at every game. So it all adds up to the same.


No home games. Lower competitive level. Two strikes against Discovery.


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## Soccerdad_562_ (Nov 2, 2021)

paytoplay said:


> No home games. Lower competitive level. Two strikes against Discovery.


Well Maybe your kid should not be playing in Discovery NPL league. Even the premiere league in the Coast League is having all of those games in OC Great Parks. They have a few teams driving from Bakersfield to OC Great Parks for 1 game a week and that commute one way can be 3 hours long.


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## timbuck (Nov 3, 2021)

Soccerdad_562_ said:


> Well Maybe your kid should not be playing in Discovery NPL league. Even the premiere league in the Coast League is having all of those games in OC Great Parks. They have a few teams driving from Bakersfield to OC Great Parks for 1 game a week and that commute one way can be 3 hours long.


How many parents/kids "picked" Discovery league?  
For many- they play on a team. That team is pretty solid.  Depending on how many teams your club has in an age group - Its the top (non-ecnl), or 2nd/3rd team at your club.  Your coach/director chose to put you in that league.


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## Soccerdad_562_ (Nov 3, 2021)

timbuck said:


> How many parents/kids "picked" Discovery league?
> For many- they play on a team. That team is pretty solid.  Depending on how many teams your club has in an age group - Its the top (non-ecnl), or 2nd/3rd team at your club.  Your coach/director chose to put you in that league.


I totally know how flights work in Socal League. But what I meant was when they inform parents your kids team is going to be say Discovery/Premiere teams they informed parents that there games will be in certain facilities and traveling is involved.


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## soccersc (Nov 3, 2021)

paytoplay said:


> No home games. Lower competitive level. Two strikes against Discovery.


Lower competitive level? Compared to what? It also depends on if you are talking boys are girls.  For boys, It's not ECNL or MLS Next, but you could argue its just as good as EA. There are also some pretty weak teams in ECNL and MLS next as well.  All leagues are watered down these days, there's just too many of them fighting to be the next best thing.


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## Speed (Nov 3, 2021)

Soccerdad_562_ said:


> I totally know how flights work in Socal League. But what I meant was when they inform parents your kids team is going to be say Discovery/Premiere teams they informed parents that there games will be in certain facilities and traveling is involved.


We won and got moved. I am pissed and I hate driving to silver lakes but I wasn't going to move my kid because of the location. We are vested with the team and club.  We certainly wouldn't have left a good solid team/coach because of location of games. But still hate the driving and will complain about it.


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## Soccerdad_562_ (Nov 3, 2021)

Speed said:


> We won and got moved. I am pissed and I hate driving to silver lakes but I wasn't going to move my kid because of the location. We are vested with the team and club.  We certainly wouldn't have left a good solid team/coach because of location of games. But still hate the driving and will complain about it.


I hear you on driving but. It just comes down to where your starting point is for the drive.


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## paytoplay (Nov 3, 2021)

soccersc said:


> Lower competitive level? Compared to what? It also depends on if you are talking boys are girls.  For boys, It's not ECNL or MLS Next, but you could argue its just as good as EA. There are also some pretty weak teams in ECNL and MLS next as well.  All leagues are watered down these days, there's just too many of them fighting to be the next best thing.


For example, Blues and slammers. Their top teams are in ECNL, then ECRL and third best is in Discovery or SoCal Flight 1. Big gap between ecnl and discovery, even more so this year with so many teams thrown into discovery that don’t belong.


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## soccersc (Nov 3, 2021)

paytoplay said:


> For example, Blues and slammers. Their top teams are in ECNL, then ECRL and third best is in Discovery or SoCal Flight 1. Big gap between ecnl and discovery, even more so this year with so many teams thrown into discovery that don’t belong.


You’re talking talking about the girls side, and your talking about 2 or maybe three teams that are that deep. You also got to look at the teams that have their top team in discovery…one problem this year is discovery let everyone in so it’s hard to even say what is what, but I can say the top teams in discovery can compete and are probably better than any ecrl team.


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## socalkdg (Nov 4, 2021)

soccersc said:


> You’re talking talking about the girls side, and your talking about 2 or maybe three teams that are that deep. You also got to look at the teams that have their top team in discovery…one problem this year is discovery let everyone in so it’s hard to even say what is what, but I can say the top teams in discovery can compete and are probably better than any ecrl team.


05 girls Discovery.    Tudela and Real So Cal LAFC White two examples of teams that can compete with ECNL teams and beat ECRL teams.  I know both teams really well.


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## paytoplay (Nov 4, 2021)

socalkdg said:


> 05 girls Discovery.    Tudela and Real So Cal LAFC White two examples of teams that can compete with ECNL teams and beat ECRL teams.  I know both teams really well.


Two good teams, sure—One is from a super club—and they’re winning their games easily, showing the strength of 05 discovery. The average team in their league would not compete with the ecnl/ECRL teams.


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## socalkdg (Nov 4, 2021)

You are correct about the depth of Discovery, and I agree on ECNL, but ECRL is a step down from ECNL with a number of Discovery teams that can beat the middle of the pack ECRL teams.   With a number of ECNL and ECRL players playing High School this year (at least in the Inland Empire) a number of these girls aren't starting because there are a number of Discovery and CSL Premier players that are better than them.   Nice to see all the girls mixing together and playing for their schools.  Makes for better soccer and less injuries.


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## soccersc (Nov 4, 2021)

paytoplay said:


> Two good teams, sure—One is from a super club—and they’re winning their games easily, showing the strength of 05 discovery. The average team in their league would not compete with the ecnl/ECRL teams.


When Discovery goes back to a 15 team limit, it will definitely be better than ECRL.


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## yafooligan (Nov 6, 2021)

From the State Cup 2021-22 Handbook:

"It is considered unethical for teams to move Players to teams in a lower-level division within the same Club for the purpose of creating a competitive advantage"

Does adding 5 ECNL players to a flight 1 team playing in the Super Cup division qualify as unethical?


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## Speed (Nov 7, 2021)

yafooligan said:


> From the State Cup 2021-22 Handbook:
> 
> "It is considered unethical for teams to move Players to teams in a lower-level division within the same Club for the purpose of creating a competitive advantage"
> 
> Does adding 5 ECNL players to a flight 1 team playing in the Super Cup division qualify as unethical?


what club if you dare say


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## pokergod (Nov 7, 2021)

Speed said:


> what club if you dare say


The Rams are about to lose a billion dollar lawsuit for allegedly cheating the city of St. Louis.  The Rams owner also owns.......


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## yafooligan (Nov 7, 2021)

Speed said:


> what club if you dare say


I'm sure its to nobody's surprise...Blues


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 8, 2021)

yafooligan said:


> I'm sure its to nobody's surprise...Blues


I've been watching 2009 ECRL lately + it's more common for teams to bring 3-4 "ringers" then to not bring them.

With the new changes in ECNL that either NL or RL can play on either team (but only 1 game per day) ringers will become the norm.

Allowing NL/RL to play on either team creates a single players pool that gets defined each week. Clubs want wins and will distribute players to whatever team will make that happen.

I used to believe that defined teams was the way to go. Now that I'm seeing it happen I kind of like pool play. As long as players are never allowed to do more than one game per day.

With pool play B team players can move up to A team and A team players can assist B teams. The B players get exposed to A level play and if they get better through the season have an opportunity to play on the A team. Bubble players get exposed to the most varied types of play. Which I think is a huge benefit.


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## Venantsyo (Nov 8, 2021)

Moving players up/down from the same ECNL/ECRL pool at the same club could even have a point, but How about limiting (forbidding) ringers from other clubs? That would prevent (insert your adjective of choice here) events like in a recent ECNL game where players from a 3rd non-ECXX club played for both ECNL teams that day.


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## Carlsbad7 (Nov 8, 2021)

Venantsyo said:


> Moving players up/down from the same ECNL/ECRL pool at the same club could even have a point, but How about limiting (forbidding) ringers from other clubs? That would prevent (insert your adjective of choice here) events like in a recent ECNL game where players from a 3rd non-ECXX club played for both ECNL teams that day.


If a non ENCL player was playing for an ECNL team they would have to be registered as a Discovery player. 2 per ECNL/RL level, or 4 total per age group. Which because of pool play technically means an ECNL team could have 4 ringers. 

I believe the catch is that Discovery players can only do 1 ECNL/RL event per day.


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## Venantsyo (Nov 8, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> If a non ENCL player was playing for an ECNL team they would have to be registered as a Discovery player.


Unless these players are playing up from an age group that doesn’t have Discovery, I am guessing…


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## timbuck (Nov 8, 2021)

yafooligan said:


> I'm sure its to nobody's surprise...Blues


No surprise there. Whenever we play a blues team in So Cal League, I check their ECNL/RL schedule to see (hope) that there are schedule conflicts.

It's one thing to move an ECNL player to a RL team.  Or maybe even move an RL player to a Discovery team.  But to move 4 players from an RL team to flight one when you have a bench of 7 players-  Certainly not being done because they were short players.

It's hard to be mad at Blues though-  If I had a kid that wanted to play D1 soccer and she was athletic enough-  That's were I'd take my kid.  The club wins a lot and puts a lot of kids in to college programs.
The leagues are built to appease to a program like this.  By not limiting club passes, why wouldn't they (And to a lesser extent- slammers and surf) use these lazy rules to win games?

ECNL starts at u13 - the 09 Age Group.  I'm only referring to girls teams here.
1. Blues has 18 teams in SoCal league that are 09 or older.  They have 6 ECNL teams and 6 RL teams
2. Slammers has 7 teams in SoCal league (not including their affiliates.  Pretty sure they aren't able to move players between CDA/South/etc). They have 6 slammers and 6 koge in ECNL. And 6 slammers and 6 koge in RL.  (Not sure why they are allowed to have 2 encl teams- But whatever)
3.  Surf has 10 teams in SoCal league (not including any affiliates).  6 teams in ECNL and 6 in RL.

For the most part-  Blues teams in SoCal league are near the top of the table.  Slammers and Surf are middle/bottom.


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## soccer dude (Mar 15, 2022)

I thought this so cal state cup was a joke until I looked at the competition in the 04 Girls division as compared to National cup at the same age.  16 teams in National cup as compared to 60 teams in so cal state cup, many of which are very good like Beach RL, Legends RL, and all the other RL teams.  Did I miss something or did everyone in Cal south jump ship?  I'm a big National cup fan and have had pretty good competition there pre-covid but 16 teams is a ridiculous number.  The 05 and 06's have even fewer teams.  Why is everyone doing this so cal tournament?


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## Goforgoal (Mar 15, 2022)

soccer dude said:


> I thought this so cal state cup was a joke until I looked at the competition in the 04 Girls division as compared to National cup at the same age.  16 teams in National cup as compared to 60 teams in so cal state cup, many of which are very good like Beach RL, Legends RL, and all the other RL teams.  Did I miss something or did everyone in Cal south jump ship?  I'm a big National cup fan and have had pretty good competition there pre-covid but 16 teams is a ridiculous number.  The 05 and 06's have even fewer teams.  Why is everyone doing this so cal tournament?


Because most clubs did indeed bail Cal South to join the new SoCal league this past season, so those clubs would then compete in SoCal's tournament.


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## socalkdg (Mar 15, 2022)

soccer dude said:


> I thought this so cal state cup was a joke until I looked at the competition in the 04 Girls division as compared to National cup at the same age.  16 teams in National cup as compared to 60 teams in so cal state cup, many of which are very good like Beach RL, Legends RL, and all the other RL teams.  Did I miss something or did everyone in Cal south jump ship?  I'm a big National cup fan and have had pretty good competition there pre-covid but 16 teams is a ridiculous number.  The 05 and 06's have even fewer teams.  Why is everyone doing this so cal tournament?


I believe So Cal state cup required all teams to pay and play in National cup ahead of time.


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## socalkdg (Mar 15, 2022)

Where does the winner of So Cal State cup play?   I know National Cup winner from Cal South goes to West Regionals in Idaho.


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## Brav520 (Mar 15, 2022)

socalkdg said:


> Where does the winner of So Cal State cup play?   I know National Cup winner from Cal South goes to West Regionals in Idaho.


from the site


The first annual California Cup is officially here! The quest to crown a true California State Cup champion continues on April 2-3 for the 2009-2013 Super Cup birth years. The youngers, 2009-2013, event will be hosted by NorCal Premier at the Davis Legacy Soccer Complex in Davis, CA. 

The event will feature the two Champions and two Finalists from each organization going toe to toe and competing to become THE California State Cup Champion. Over 5,000 teams are anticipated to compete across the combined competition of both State Cups for a spot in the California Cup. 

More information will be sent out directly to California teams that qualify for the event.

GOOD LUCK to the teams that qualify! Represent SOCAL with honor and pride!


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## timbuck (Mar 15, 2022)

soccer dude said:


> I thought this so cal state cup was a joke until I looked at the competition in the 04 Girls division as compared to National cup at the same age.  16 teams in National cup as compared to 60 teams in so cal state cup, many of which are very good like Beach RL, Legends RL, and all the other RL teams.  Did I miss something or did everyone in Cal south jump ship?  I'm a big National cup fan and have had pretty good competition there pre-covid but 16 teams is a ridiculous number.  The 05 and 06's have even fewer teams.  Why is everyone doing this so cal tournament?


SoCal League made it "mandatory" to play  in their version of State Cup.  Part of the reason why you see a handful of forfeits.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Mar 15, 2022)

They did a good job with state cup.  We played more games this season than any past state cup tournament.   It’s a bit longer than I would had hoped but overall it was worth the price


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## timbuck (Mar 16, 2022)

A quick look at the State Cup Standings page (shows all age groups, all brackets, etc)




__





						Southern California Developmental Soccer League State Cup | Results & Standings
					






					www.socalstatecup.com
				




If I do a "ctrl-f" and search the word "Drop" -- it shows that 165 teams have paid to play in State Cup and then for whatever reason, dropped out/forfeitted some or all of their games.
Anyone know how this compares to the "old" version?


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## Cruzer (Mar 16, 2022)

They should have made the CA Cup for all divisions.



Brav520 said:


> from the site
> 
> 
> The first annual California Cup is officially here! The quest to crown a true California State Cup champion continues on April 2-3 for the 2009-2013 Super Cup birth years. The youngers, 2009-2013, event will be hosted by NorCal Premier at the Davis Legacy Soccer Complex in Davis, CA.
> ...


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