# ECNL Playoffs for U18/19?



## Dubs (Apr 28, 2021)

I'm not sure I understand the logic behind this.  At least for my DDs team, we have 80% of the team graduating and heading off to play soccer at the next level.  By end of June, aren't the girls getting ready to either move or do non-sanctioned college team activities?  What is the point of having ECNL playoffs for this age group?  Anyone?


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## dk_b (Apr 28, 2021)

Last year's were cancelled but I do know that my kid would not have been able to participate had they qualified b/c of her summer school report date.  I have also observed lower #s from older age groups when my kid was younger - but I also observed the phenomena of college players meeting up with their old clubmates to play in the playoffs.  Not sure of this year's format but the past format - fewer teams, over in the first phase of the national playoffs (so no separate location for the Final 4) - is a nod to the reality that those HS grads are not going to be as into club playoffs as the younger players.

(and with the perspective of a college season . . . I am not sure I'd want my kid doing the playoffs.  If she's not leaving right after graduation, she may be better off hanging with friends and family and giving her body some down time from competition b/c it's about to get real.  That's just one parent's view, however.  And I can give good arguments about why my take is wrong)


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## Dubs (Apr 28, 2021)

dk_b said:


> Last year's were cancelled but I do know that my kid would not have been able to participate had they qualified b/c of her summer school report date.  I have also observed lower #s from older age groups when my kid was younger - but I also observed the phenomena of college players meeting up with their old clubmates to play in the playoffs.  Not sure of this year's format but the past format - fewer teams, over in the first phase of the national playoffs (so no separate location for the Final 4) - is a nod to the reality that those HS grads are not going to be as into club playoffs as the younger players.
> 
> (and with the perspective of a college season . . . I am not sure I'd want my kid doing the playoffs.  If she's not leaving right after graduation, she may be better off hanging with friends and family and giving her body some down time from competition b/c it's about to get real.  That's just one parent's view, however.  And I can give good arguments about why my take is wrong)


DK, I believe we have the same perspective.  There's a finite amount of time left before she's out of the house... Not sure I/she wants to spend it on a trip to Florida for a last club hurrah that doesn't mean anything and doesn't really jive with upcoming college team events.


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## lafalafa (Apr 28, 2021)

Fun for one last go around to play together one last time trying to win something before everyone is off to college or whatever and the teams breakup.

Once in a lifetime...

Some kids enjoy the traveling also.  New places to see and things to do.


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## crush (Apr 28, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Fun for one last go around to play together one last time trying to win something before everyone is off to college or whatever and the teams breakup.
> 
> Once in a lifetime...
> 
> Some kids enjoy the traveling also.  New places to see and things to do.


This will be us Next year.  I sure hope the finals are in Socal.  My dd is looking to hoist the trophy one last time, just like she did at the beginning of her youth soccer career.


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## GT45 (Apr 28, 2021)

You take up a roster spot on a top ECNL team capable of competing for a National Championship, then you fulfill your obligation to that team. It is called commitment.


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## twoclubpapa (Apr 28, 2021)

Some years ago girls club volleyball addressed the issue of early summer college reporting dates, interference with summer jobs and (maybe) lack of interest by moving their U19 national championships to April while the other age groups continued to compete later in the summer.


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## dk_b (Apr 28, 2021)

GT45 said:


> You take up a roster spot on a top ECNL team capable of competing for a National Championship, then you fulfill your obligation to that team. It is called commitment.





lafalafa said:


> Fun for one last go around to play together one last time trying to win something before everyone is off to college or whatever and the teams breakup.
> 
> Once in a lifetime...
> 
> Some kids enjoy the traveling also.  New places to see and things to do.


As I said, I can think of some good arguments and these are good arguments. In fact, the commitment one was something we discussed last year - pre-covid - once we learned of her "report date" for summer 2020.  And I think commitment is the strongest argument since by the time these HS seniors have graduated, some of the feelings about the one last go around will fade as they are anxious to get going on the next chapter (I have seen a lot of the U19/U18 players who are psyched to have won the right to advance but less psyched about actually playing the playoffs, even with exceptionally close teams and hyper-competitive players). And the feeling of leaving their HS friends before everyone scatters cannot be underestimated. 

I just looked at the U19/U18 format - single-elimination, 4 games in 6 days for the finalists.  How many levels of adult play will have players play 360 mins in 6 days (plus potential of OT - or do they go straight to PKs?)? That's a lot.


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## lafalafa (Apr 28, 2021)

dk_b said:


> As I said, I can think of some good arguments and these are good arguments. In fact, the commitment one was something we discussed last year - pre-covid - once we learned of her "report date" for summer 2020.  And I think commitment is the strongest argument since by the time these HS seniors have graduated, some of the feelings about the one last go around will fade as they are anxious to get going on the next chapter (I have seen a lot of the U19/U18 players who are psyched to have won the right to advance but less psyched about actually playing the playoffs, even with exceptionally close teams and hyper-competitive players). And the feeling of leaving their HS friends before everyone scatters cannot be underestimated.
> 
> I just looked at the U19/U18 format - single-elimination, 4 games in 6 days for the finalists.  How many levels of adult play will have players play 360 mins in 6 days (plus potential of OT - or do they go straight to PKs?)? That's a lot.


Yeah that just makes the experience that more special.

We  know seniors that will play up to 18 games in April, two Tournaments, HS games, + various league games that are 18 yr old adults so yes if you want it enough it's possible.

The u18/19  playoffs games ended up being the last games some of the girls on our oldest team ever played and they have a bunch of fond memories about the whole thing.  Going out will full effort and commitment leaves very little to nothing to be desired,supporting you team mates is something they won't forget. They had  two players that had injuries and they still went and helped out, one of which is now coaching.

Leaving or walking out before the commitment is done won't be forgotten.  The memory of one last go around didn't fad for either of my kids.  See what happens with the last one but he's pumped up to be given the chance and won't kick the horse in the month just do he can get a headstart on finding a newer shiny one.

Volleyball is fun but trying to Move ECNL post season schedules that are already accommodating High School sports would be a real tough thing to do.   This year things are even more compressed and pushed back so make the best of it and remember this opportunity only comes along once with what got you there.


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## crush (Apr 28, 2021)

GT45 said:


> You take up a roster spot on a top ECNL team capable of competing for a National Championship, then you fulfill your obligation to that team. It is called commitment.


And if you lost your job?  What if they said playoffs were in San Diego and then got switched to East Coast during 4th of July?  You seem so harsh 45. Really insensitive 45 
"It's called help your neighbor and lend a hand bro." crush 4/28/21


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## dk_b (Apr 28, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> We  know seniors that will play up to 18 games in April, two Tournaments, HS games, + various league games that are 18 yr old adults so yes if you want it enough it's possible.


I think you missed my point - 4 games in 6 days is unsafe.  18 games in one month is unsafe (more than 1 game/2days).   "If you want it enough it's possible" is not really a justification that makes a lot of sense to me.  I'd be surprised that many sports docs/orthopedic surgeons or even college coaches would be thrilled about that workload. And while the odds are still against any one athlete suffering a catastrophic injury, the overall risk of injury to those athletes is definitely heightened with that workload.  The Olympics is an outlier in how many games medalists will play (6 games) but even those have 2 days of rest between games (3 days between semis and gold medal game).

I do think the best argument is the commitment one - if a player has committed to a team, then she's committed to the team but I don't think any player on a U18/U19 champions league qualifier would hold anything against a player who had to miss b/c her college expected a June 30 show-up for "mandatory" summer school.


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## lafalafa (Apr 28, 2021)

dk_b said:


> I think you missed my point - 4 games in 6 days is unsafe.  18 games in one month is unsafe (more than 1 game/2days).   "If you want it enough it's possible" is not really a justification that makes a lot of sense to me.  I'd be surprised that many sports docs/orthopedic surgeons or even college coaches would be thrilled about that workload. And while the odds are still against any one athlete suffering a catastrophic injury, the overall risk of injury to those athletes is definitely heightened with that workload.  The Olympics is an outlier in how many games medalists will play (6 games) but even those have 2 days of rest between games (3 days between semis and gold medal game).
> 
> I do think the best argument is the commitment one - if a player has committed to a team, then she's committed to the team but I don't think any player on a U18/U19 champions league qualifier would hold anything against a player who had to miss b/c her college expected a June 30 show-up for "mandatory" summer school.


There adults right 18 yrs old can make there own determination on what's safe right?  If your worried about it let them make there own decisions.   If they think it's not safe have them discuss with the coaches, there are sensible ways to manage playing time. 

Same with report dates if your player can't discuss with the appropriate people about being flexible that would be a shame. I've seen college players report all over the places and they still seem to do fine so anything is possible if you want it enough.  Everyone had execues successful people don't use them and find solutions not problems.


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## dk_b (Apr 28, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> There adults right 18 yrs old can make there own determination on what's safe right?  If your worried about it let them make there own decisions.   If they think it's not safe have them discuss with the coaches, there are sensible ways to manage playing time.
> 
> Same with report dates if your player can't discuss with the appropriate people about being flexible that would be a shame. I've seen college players report all over the places and they still seem to do fine so anything is possible if you want it enough.  Everyone had execues successful people don't use them and find solutions not problems.


Yes, 18 year olds can make their own decisions.  However, the structure is unsafe.  If it weren't, you'd see more events follow a similar structure. HS and Club kids make the 18 game/month schedule?  Sure.  Adults w/full agency have sufficient information to sign on to that schedule. Especially young adults. They are the most informed and capable of making that decision.  And, of course, the club coaches/ECNL/HS ADs/coaches only have the best interests of the athletes in mind.  What could I possibly be thinking?

When the expectation is not about reporting for training but b/c they are expected to attend summer school, the best thing an incoming freshman athlete should do is tell the coaches, "no.  I'll be there when I arrive."  That always goes over well.

But your money quote that "Everyone had execues [sic] successful people don't use them and find solutions not problems" really nailed it. My poor kid is still striving for success - I hope she finds it b/c I need that validation - and I'm just wallowing away at my keyboard.  If only we had people to help guide us.  My poor children.


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## lafalafa (Apr 28, 2021)

dk_b said:


> Yes, 18 year olds can make their own decisions.  However, the structure is unsafe.  If it weren't, you'd see more events follow a similar structure. HS and Club kids make the 18 game/month schedule?  Sure.  Adults w/full agency have sufficient information to sign on to that schedule. Especially young adults. They are the most informed and capable of making that decision.  And, of course, the club coaches/ECNL/HS ADs/coaches only have the best interests of the athletes in mind.  What could I possibly be thinking?
> 
> When the expectation is not about reporting for training but b/c they are expected to attend summer school, the best thing an incoming freshman athlete should do is tell the coaches, "no.  I'll be there when I arrive."  That always goes over well.
> 
> But your money quote that "Everyone had execues [sic] successful people don't use them and find solutions not problems" really nailed it. My poor kid is still striving for success - I hope she finds it b/c I need that validation - and I'm just wallowing away at my keyboard.  If only we had people to help guide us.  My poor children.


You're scared or afraid for your kid as a parent, that's natural so your projecting that best course of action is to play it as "safe" as they can and there are no other option like managing play time,  doing a couple of weeks of summer school on-line or telling a coach it's more important to honor a commitment vs a couple of a weeks of a head start.

Time to let go,  young adults have been figuring this out every year, if you ask them they will make the decision for themselves.  Projecting your fears is what some parents do but young adults are normally smart enough to manage.  Don't shut them out of the options or possiblities because you think it's the safest or most conservative things to do.    They are there own persons already encouraging and celebrate that.


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## GT45 (Apr 28, 2021)

June 30 college report dates are silly. The entire university will be on vacation over the 4th of July. There is no valid reason to make freshman report then.


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## Dubs (Apr 28, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Fun for one last go around to play together one last time trying to win something before everyone is off to college or whatever and the teams breakup.
> 
> Once in a lifetime...
> 
> Some kids enjoy the traveling also.  New places to see and things to do.


I get that side of it, but with everything ahead of them and the actual timing of it doesn't really lend itself to strong participation.


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## Dubs (Apr 28, 2021)

dk_b said:


> I think you missed my point - 4 games in 6 days is unsafe.  18 games in one month is unsafe (more than 1 game/2days).   "If you want it enough it's possible" is not really a justification that makes a lot of sense to me.  I'd be surprised that many sports docs/orthopedic surgeons or even college coaches would be thrilled about that workload. And while the odds are still against any one athlete suffering a catastrophic injury, the overall risk of injury to those athletes is definitely heightened with that workload.  The Olympics is an outlier in how many games medalists will play (6 games) but even those have 2 days of rest between games (3 days between semis and gold medal game).
> 
> I do think the best argument is the commitment one - if a player has committed to a team, then she's committed to the team but I don't think any player on a U18/U19 champions league qualifier would hold anything against a player who had to miss b/c her college expected a June 30 show-up for "mandatory" summer school.


EXACTLY!


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## Dubs (Apr 28, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> You're scared or afraid for your kid as a parent, that's natural so your projecting that best course of action is to play it as "safe" as they can and there are no other option like managing play time,  doing a couple of weeks of summer school on-line or telling a coach it's more important to honor a commitment vs a couple of a weeks of a head start.
> 
> Why would you asssume this is the case?  Are you speaking from a place where you somehow know better?  I'm not understanding.  I don't think DK or I are saying a kid can't decide.  However, the logistics of finishing the club committment well after graduation and pushing up against a reporting date for college is far from ideal.  I think most kids by this timeframe have, as DK says, moved on and are preparing mentally for the rigors of their college program.  This is sensible and in no way should/would reflect badly on that player.


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