# 22-0



## timbuck (Jul 22, 2018)

Just saw a girls 2009 score of 22-0 at Pats cup this weekend. 
These are 9 year olds.  
Clearly someone is playing in the wrong bracket, but come on?
Lots of discussion lately on inappropriate parent behavior on the sidelines.  If there ever was a reason for a parent to lose it against other parents or coaches-  I think this is probably the right time. 
Just wow.


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## TheyBothPlay (Jul 22, 2018)

The brilliant tourney rules also use a flat (uncapped per game) goal differential as the first tie break criteria after head to head.  Way to go...not.


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## Not_that_Serious (Jul 22, 2018)

Stopped entering our teams because they kept placing our tier 1 teams in lower brackets. So wed have teams winning the tournament with 30+ gd and had one team not concede a goal the whole tournament. We would ask them to not do that but still did. They dont want "academy" or "reserve academy" or "super awesome academy"  teams to lose to regular, run of the mill, tier 1 teams - bad for business. So theyll let there lower tier teams be cannon fodder for the good of the club.


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## Nefutous (Jul 22, 2018)

TheyBothPlay said:


> The brilliant tourney rules also use a flat (uncapped per game) goal differential as the first tie break criteria after head to head.  Way to go...not.


While goals should have been capped, I will give the club a pass and say it was an honest mistake. I am sure they will fix that rule next year if someone brings it to their attention.

However, despite the rule, by 6 pm last night when OC Surf-Hernandez ran up the score, they should have known that it was unnecessary based on the earlier game results.  And if a coach is not going to act maturely in this situation, I feel that the parents should have.  At U9 we were in a similar situation and I knew it was likely to be a blow out before the game.  So I gave specific instructions to my children on what to do.  A few holey rollers were let in and passes stopped being so accurate. My kids got in trouble with the coach after the game, but it was worth it.  They went to get ice cream with the other team after the game.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Jul 22, 2018)

There's no justification for that score. Period. Coach should be fined and hopefully feels embarrassed today.


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## timbuck (Jul 22, 2018)

I don’t understand how any club or coach thinks this is ok. If anyone reading this has an 09 daughter, I hope this causes you to avoid this coach when shopping for a new club. 
And you tell the DOC why you aren’t attending their tryout.


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## Not_that_Serious (Jul 22, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I don’t understand how any club or coach thinks this is ok. If anyone reading this has an 09 daughter, I hope this causes you to avoid this coach when shopping for a new club.
> And you tell the DOC why you aren’t attending their tryout.


You can pull kids back and put your defensive kids up but if the team is truly playing with talent that has no business playing at that level, then the score can run away. Saw a WC ECNL team placed in a bronze level bracket last year at a local tournament - have no idea why the coach (most folks know the guy) would even do that. Worse I saw was the 10 goals put on us. Seems at least they were told to pass around more and move ball into the box and out - but it could have been 20 goals if the keeper didnt save about a dozen shots. Have to nlame organizers for thimgs like that more than kids wanting to score. Maybe 22-0 could have been worse? Weve been on rec team were we had to pull 4 kids off the field and play 7 v 11 and still end up scoring. Some coaches find pulling kids off or not trying to score against them as insulting or poor sportsmanship


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## espola (Jul 22, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> You can pull kids back and put your defensive kids up but if the team is truly playing with talent that has no business playing at that level, then the score can run away. Saw a WC ECNL team placed in a bronze level bracket last year at a local tournament - have no idea why the coach (most folks know the guy) would even do that. Worse I saw was the 10 goals put on us. Seems at least they were told to pass around more and move ball into the box and out - but it could have been 20 goals if the keeper didnt save about a dozen shots. Have to nlame organizers for thimgs like that more than kids wanting to score. Maybe 22-0 could have been worse? Weve been on rec team were we had to pull 4 kids off the field and play 7 v 11 and still end up scoring. Some coaches find pulling kids off or not trying to score against them as insulting or poor sportsmanship


Sometimes you do what you can, and it's not enough.  I had to sub for our regular coach who missed a game back in the BU9 days (memory says he overslept, but I find that hard to believe).  Ahead 6-0, I pulled the best 2 players to the bench and rotated the player positions.  Our smallest player, who had always played on the back line and didn't get many scoring opportunities, listened to his dad shouting "Shoot it" from the sideline every time he touched the ball and scored 4 straight goals.


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## Not_that_Serious (Jul 22, 2018)

espola said:


> Sometimes you do what you can, and it's not enough.  I had to sub for our regular coach who missed a game back in the BU9 days (memory says he overslept, but I find that hard to believe).  Ahead 6-0, I pulled the best 2 players to the bench and rotated the player positions.  Our smallest player, who had always played on the back line and didn't get many scoring opportunities, listened to his dad shouting "Shoot it" from the sideline every time he touched the ball and scored 4 straight goals.


Yeah parents can be the issue but if you organize a tourney and see "ecnl" or see a tier 1 team with 1 or 2 losses in league - dint drop them to tier 2 or heaven forbid tier 3 competiton. Hard not to shoot when you are close to goal or getting a cross. At higher levels, kids on the bench are not far off the starters. You could pass around and hold the ball more, but hard to hammer kids doing what they are trained to do...unless you threaten them.


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## jrcaesar (Jul 22, 2018)

+39 goal differential through 3 games so far. Maybe they all get iPhones if they get to +50.


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## Nefutous (Jul 22, 2018)

espola said:


> Sometimes you do what you can, and it's not enough.  I had to sub for our regular coach who missed a game back in the BU9 days (memory says he overslept, but I find that hard to believe).  Ahead 6-0, I pulled the best 2 players to the bench and rotated the player positions.  Our smallest player, who had always played on the back line and didn't get many scoring opportunities, listened to his dad shouting "Shoot it" from the sideline every time he touched the ball and scored 4 straight goals.


You were the coach. You should have controlled your parents.  It would have been very easy for you to pull that kid out of the game and tell him to have a talk with his dad if he wanted to continue playing the rest of the game.  It is better to teach parents how to behave on the sidelines when their kid is young.


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## Nefutous (Jul 22, 2018)

jrcaesar said:


> +39 goal differential through 3 games so far. Maybe they all get iPhones if they get to +50.


Let’s put this in prospective. 22 goals in 50 minutes equates to a goal every 2:16 minutes. This does not account for restarts, fouls, subs...

Even with that uncapped goals, the behavior was wrong.  We recently playing in the championship game of a tournament where the other team only had 11 players. One player got hurt and the coach was about to take one of his played out so it would be 10 v 10. Fortunately the player was ok and able to return to the game. The score was 0-0 at this point.  Remember it is about how you play the game not who can cream the other team.


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## Justafan (Jul 22, 2018)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> There's no justification for that score. Period. Coach should be fined and hopefully feels embarrassed today.


Sorry but this is not on the winning coach.  It’s either on the tournament director for letting superior teams in lower brackets or the losing coach for putting his team in a tournament and/or bracket they shouldn’t be in.


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## timbuck (Jul 22, 2018)

Justafan said:


> Sorry but this is not on the winning coach.  It’s either on the tournament director for letting superior teams in lower brackets or the losing coach for putting his team in a tournament and/or bracket they shouldn’t be in.


I disagree. A team winning all games 10-0 or losing all of their games 10-0 is in the wrong bracket.  A 22-0 thrashing is uncalled for.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 22, 2018)

Justafan said:


> Sorry but this is not on the winning coach.  It’s either on the tournament director for letting superior teams in lower brackets or the losing coach for putting his team in a tournament and/or bracket they shouldn’t be in.


I looked at the scores and there are 2 quick points to make:

1) There is only one bracket at this age group.

2) The 22-0 score has been changed to 12-0


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## LifeisGood (Jul 22, 2018)

Saw a 2010 game recently at at tournament.  Score was 22-0. They only had 1 bracket and I know at that age there can be a significant range of ability/talent, but there is a lot a coach can do to keep the score from getting crazy.  22-0 is ridiculous and unacceptable to me. How does that benefit anyone on either team?

I approached the coach later in the day when I saw him at another field and politely asked him about it.  He was irritated with me and  loudly said "I did everything I could!".  Then he got  aggressive and said "Are you judging me?!"   I replied " You have a good team, but if you did everything you could and the score was still 22-0, then you aren't a very good coach." and walked away.


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## Justafan (Jul 22, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I disagree. A team winning all games 10-0 or losing all of their games 10-0 is in the wrong bracket.  A 22-0 thrashing is uncalled for.


Fair enough, but then the question becomes is what you want the winning coach to do, pull everybody but the goaly?  What if the coach did everything humanly possible?  To me, it’s more on the losing coach, either forfeit the game or call it at half.  

I for one find it more insulting for the winning team to start pulling players.  This happened to my dd’s back in the AYSO days and I told the coach to keep his full team in and not take it easy on us.


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## Nefutous (Jul 22, 2018)

Justafan said:


> I for one find it more insulting for the winning team to start pulling players.  This happened to my dd’s back in the AYSO days and I told the coach to keep his full team in and not take it easy on us.


I think it depends on the age, sex, length of time they have been playing..... The team I described above that we took it easy on them hard a very difficult year with most every team in league play crushed them. These girls never had the opportunity to learn to the love game and most quit soccer entirely that year.  Who knows what type of soccer players they would have developed into if given the opportunity to find some joy in that first year.


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## timbuck (Jul 22, 2018)

Justafan said:


> Fair enough, but then the question becomes is what you want the winning coach to do, pull everybody but the goaly?  What if the coach did everything humanly possible?  To me, it’s more on the losing coach, either forfeit the game or call it at half.
> 
> I for one find it more insulting for the winning team to start pulling players.  This happened to my dd’s back in the AYSO days and I told the coach to keep his full team in and not take it easy on us.


Yeah- good question.  It’s not easy to coach 9 year olds to call off the dogs.  Hard for them to grasp the concept. 
 Maybe take a little more time with the ball before getting forward. If you are scoring every 130 seconds, maybe put a time limit on keeping possession.  Counting passes can be demoralizing. So maybe run a clock and tell your team they can’t cross the opposing 18 for 5 minutes.    Or attack but tell them to shoot the ball wide every time. 
Or let the other team take a bunch of corner kicks to work on your defensive shape and counterattacking.   If a ball goes out for a throw in- don’t run after it and go forward with your throw.  Or all throw ins need to go back inside of your own 18 until you can go forward.  Or you can only shoot using your opposite foot.  Or you can only shoot a one touch shot.  
Or play the secret scorer game-  assign 1 kid to be the goal scorer.  Your team knows who it is. But the other team does not.  Nobody can score but this kid. Put her in as a center back. Watch all of the passing back to get her the ball. 

He’s been coaching for a while, so I’m sure he’s been in a similar situation (maybe even on the losing end at some point).


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## Messi>CR7 (Jul 22, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Yeah- good question.  It’s not easy to coach 9 year olds to call off the dogs.  Hard for them to grasp the concept.
> Maybe take a little more time with the ball before getting forward. If you are scoring every 130 seconds, maybe put a time limit on keeping possession.  Counting passes can be demoralizing. So maybe run a clock and tell your team they can’t cross the opposing 18 for 5 minutes.    Or attack but tell them to shoot the ball wide every time.
> Or let the other team take a bunch of corner kicks to work on your defensive shape and counterattacking.   If a ball goes out for a throw in- don’t run after it and go forward with your throw.  Or all throw ins need to go back inside of your own 18 until you can go forward.  Or you can only shoot using your opposite foot.  Or you can only shoot a one touch shot.
> Or play the secret scorer game-  assign 1 kid to be the goal scorer.  Your team knows who it is. But the other team does not.  Nobody can score but this kid. Put her in as a center back. Watch all of the passing back to get her the ball.
> ...


These are good ideas, but I don't know there is a difference between 12-0 and 22-0.  By the time it's 7 or 8-0, the losing team (and maybe the winning team as well) just want the game to end.  Perhaps we implement the baseball mercy rule.  Just call the game after 12-0.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Jul 22, 2018)

There's a difference between 12-0 and 22-0.  We won a game by a 12 goal margin before...and we were trying to pump the brakes (resting starters, letting GK play forward).  But 22-0 would be almost a goal every two minutes...not an easy task.  

In any event looks like this was just a typo...site has been corrected to 12-0.


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## Fact (Jul 22, 2018)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> There's a difference between 12-0 and 22-0.  We won a game by a 12 goal margin before...and we were trying to pump the brakes (resting starters, letting GK play forward).  But 22-0 would be almost a goal every two minutes...not an easy task.
> 
> In any event looks like this was just a typo...site has been corrected to 12-0.


Do you really think it was a typo or a PR move due to the negative response on this site?


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## rainbow_unicorn (Jul 22, 2018)

Fact said:


> Do you really think it was a typo or a PR move due to the negative response on this site?


Typo.


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## Fact (Jul 22, 2018)

LifeisGood said:


> Saw a 2010 game recently at at tournament.  Score was 22-0. They only had 1 bracket and I know at that age there can be a significant range of ability/talent, but there is a lot a coach can do to keep the score from getting crazy.  22-0 is ridiculous and unacceptable to me.


PR seems very similar.


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## Justafan (Jul 22, 2018)

Messi>CR7 said:


> These are good ideas, but I don't know there is a difference between 12-0 and 22-0.  By the time it's 7 or 8-0, the losing team (and maybe the winning team as well) just want the game to end.  Perhaps we implement the baseball mercy rule.  Just call the game after 12-0.


At the end of the day it is the losing team’s  coach who is responsible for the psyche of his own team.  If he thinks his team can handle it, then play on, if not call it at halftime or whenever.  Everybody is putting too much on the winning coach.  Now if the winning coach is boasting and his parents are cheering after the 6th and 7th goals, that’s a different story.


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## timbuck (Jul 22, 2018)

Looked at a few other brackets.  Quite a few blowouts
Boys 2010: 10-0
Boys 2009:  19-1 and 13-2 (in flight 2)
Boys 2008: 14-0 (flight 2)
Girls 2010: 15-0 and 14-0

And a handful of games with 10 goals scored by 1 team.


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## MijoPlumber (Jul 22, 2018)

Justafan said:


> Sorry but this is not on the winning coach.  It’s either on the tournament director for letting superior teams in lower brackets or the losing coach for putting his team in a tournament and/or bracket they shouldn’t be in.


Mijo, yes - you are right. About time someone said it.
Blame the losing team for playing in a bracket they did not belong.   How really bad does any team have to be to give up 22 goals!!!


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## MijoPlumber (Jul 22, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Looked at a few other brackets.  Quite a few blowouts
> Boys 2010: 10-0
> Boys 2009:  19-1 and 13-2 (in flight 2)
> Boys 2008: 14-0 (flight 2)
> ...


AYSO parents being sold on joining a “club” team thinking their Mijo’s and Mija’s will magically become competitive club players.  Not fair to the kids.


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## MijoPlumber (Jul 23, 2018)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> There's no justification for that score. Period. Coach should be fined and hopefully feels embarrassed today.


 Aunte Sunil, are you serious? 
Question the coach who brought a team to a tournament in flight 2 that is soooo bad they lose 22-0! 
Maybe you just prefer AYSO. Pass those snacks out at halftime and have a sleepover!  
Fine the idiot who claims to be a club coach that loses so badly.   Give those parents their money back Mijo.


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## ToonArmy (Jul 23, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Looked at a few other brackets.  Quite a few blowouts
> Boys 2010: 10-0
> Boys 2009:  19-1 and 13-2 (in flight 2)
> Boys 2008: 14-0 (flight 2)
> ...


Was a 2005 girls team beating a 2004 team 10 to 0 in flight 2


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## coachrefparent (Jul 23, 2018)

ToonArmy said:


> Was a 2005 girls team beating a 2004 team 10 to 0 in flight 2


Is that a question or a statement?


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## ToonArmy (Jul 23, 2018)

coachrefparent said:


> Is that a question or a statement?


Oops. That was a statement. And the keeper was the only one allowed to score apparently as she was the only player taking shots for the final 15 minutes when it was already 10 to 0


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## Sokrplayer75 (Jul 23, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Yeah- good question.  It’s not easy to coach 9 year olds to call off the dogs.  Hard for them to grasp the concept.
> Maybe take a little more time with the ball before getting forward. If you are scoring every 130 seconds, maybe put a time limit on keeping possession.  Counting passes can be demoralizing. So maybe run a clock and tell your team they can’t cross the opposing 18 for 5 minutes.    Or attack but tell them to shoot the ball wide every time.
> Or let the other team take a bunch of corner kicks to work on your defensive shape and counterattacking.   If a ball goes out for a throw in- don’t run after it and go forward with your throw.  Or all throw ins need to go back inside of your own 18 until you can go forward.  Or you can only shoot using your opposite foot.  Or you can only shoot a one touch shot.
> Or play the secret scorer game-  assign 1 kid to be the goal scorer.  Your team knows who it is. But the other team does not.  Nobody can score but this kid. Put her in as a center back. Watch all of the passing back to get her the ball.
> ...


Our coach caps goals at 7-0, girls pass the ball around. Should one of our girls score they immediately are out of the game, girls learn really fast, lol!  no excuses IMO for 22-0.


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## Surfref (Jul 23, 2018)

I had a 20-0 game in a 7v7 G9 game this past weekend that the winning coach asked to have recorded as 10-0 (goal differential was capped so the total over 6 did not matter). For those that think it is easy to get young kids to not score are mistaken.  At 10 minutes into the game it was 6-0 and the coach told the players no shooting on goal until they completed 10 consecutive passes. At 8-0 the coach raised it to 25 passes.  Starting the second half he only put 6 players on the field and raised it to 30 passes.  At 12-0 he took another player off the field and said no more scoring.  The girls still took shots and scored.  The winning coach apologized to the losing coach and gave his players and parents a lecture on sportsmanship.


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## Nefutous (Jul 23, 2018)

Sokrplayer75 said:


> Our coach caps goals at 7-0, girls pass the ball around. Should one of our girls score they immediately are out of the game, girls learn really fast, lol!  no excuses IMO for 22-0.





Surfref said:


> I had a 20-0 game in a 7v7 G9 game this past weekend that the winning coach asked to have recorded as 10-0 (goal differential was capped so the total over 6 did not matter). For those that think it is easy to get young kids to not score are mistaken.


Surfref I hate to disagree with you but why does it work on Sokrplayer’s team?  The answer is consequences, pulling the child out of the game. A lecture does nothing.


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## Josep (Jul 23, 2018)

Just for the record, this isn’t just in youth soccer.  So before anyone pulls the “this doesn’t happen in pro soccer” card, Everton won 2-weeks ago 22-0.   

Lots of things wrong here.  Within the first 5/10 mins this game was likely out of hand.   Let Johnny drop his 3-4 goals and sub him or drop him to defender.  After Luis gets his 3-4 do the same.  

Coaches always put conditions on my kids.  Any goal must be scored by opposite foot, after 10 passes, or after stealing - team must play it back to keeper and connect back up the field.  

While winning coach should have restrained a bit, they pay to come into a tourney for minutes.  Bench players may not have an opportunity to score in other games.  Confidence is key.  Nobody wants to pay these outrageous tourney fees to just walk off with a trophy and some medals (well sadly some shady coaches do.)

As for the losing coach, at some point the kids need to get a reality check.  They got to the final ; so wouldn’t they have poured it on if they were the better team?    Park the bus, foul the scorers.  There are things you can do.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Jul 23, 2018)

Surfref said:


> I had a 20-0 game in a 7v7 G9 game this past weekend that the winning coach asked to have recorded as 10-0 (goal differential was capped so the total over 6 did not matter). For those that think it is easy to get young kids to not score are mistaken.  At 10 minutes into the game it was 6-0 and the coach told the players no shooting on goal until they completed 10 consecutive passes. At 8-0 the coach raised it to 25 passes.  Starting the second half he only put 6 players on the field and raised it to 30 passes.  At 12-0 he took another player off the field and said no more scoring.  The girls still took shots and scored.  The winning coach apologized to the losing coach and gave his players and parents a lecture on sportsmanship.


The coach did everything right to slow down the scoring...no need for an apology in my mind.


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## Justafan (Jul 23, 2018)

Sokrplayer75 said:


> Our coach caps goals at 7-0, girls pass the ball around. Should one of our girls score they immediately are out of the game, girls learn really fast, lol!  no excuses IMO for 22-0.


Ok fair enough, but what responsibility, if any, do you put on the losing coach?  I personally would put at least 90% on the losing coach (either forfeit or call the game at some point) and 5-10% on the winning coach (in case he or she is a jerk).


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## Fact (Jul 23, 2018)

Justafan said:


> Ok fair enough, but what responsibility, if any, do you put on the losing coach?  I personally would put at least 90% on the losing coach (either forfeit or call the game at some point) and 5-10% on the winning coach (in case he or she is a jerk).


I have often seen this is baseball with the mercy rule.  The losing side starts to pack it up and the winning coach and parents start to call names because they want to keep hitting.  Generally the word I have heard them called is far worse than crybaby.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 23, 2018)

Normally lopsided scores you see at all levels (U9, U19, pro and International) is not about the level of the team but about some kind of statement. 
In 80s, New Zeland National team ran up the scores to prove that they belong in Asian conference instead of Oceania.
From what I've seen at youth level, coach from rival club trying to recruit players on the loosing team or pissed of that he was fired from that club previously.


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## futboldad1 (Jul 23, 2018)

Sokrplayer75 said:


> Our coach caps goals at 7-0, girls pass the ball around. Should one of our girls score they immediately are out of the game, girls learn really fast, lol!  no excuses IMO for 22-0.


What age group? Capping goals and subbing off kids who disobey is a weird and counterproductive thing to do. Ask for a set number of passes or something similar but to tell kids not to score when through is nonsense. So long as winning the coach/parents are not cheering for more shots and goals and the other team is playing with a full number of players (if they're not then remove to match them) I don't see lopsided scores as a sign of "low class."


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## Surfref (Jul 23, 2018)

Nefutous said:


> Surfref I hate to disagree with you but why does it work on Sokrplayer’s team?  The answer is consequences, pulling the child out of the game. A lecture does nothing.


The coach did pull the 8 year old girls out after they scored and for the last 15 minutes of the game only had 5 players (minimum number) on the field and had a forward in goal.  The little girls would just not listen to him even when he pulled them out and talked to them.  I heard his speech to the players and the one to the parents about sportsmanship after the game and he was spot on.

The losing team players did not seem effected because they gave the other team hugs after the game and I saw several of them sitting in the shade together eating Hawaiian ice cones.  The two coaches were friendly to each other and the winning coach kept apologizing and the losing coach kept telling him not to worry about it.  The losing parents were the only ones upset.  This was the losing teams first tournament and they are just learning how to play a real game together.  The players were okay individually for first year competitive club 8/9 years old but just could not connect passes under pressure and need to learn to defend better.  I bet the players on the losing team will be winning and playing better by the fall season.  The losing was also rotating players in and out of keeper to see who did the best since there was no designated keeper.


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## coachsamy (Jul 23, 2018)

In all fairness to the OC Surf Coach, the age group only had one bracket with 5 teams. There were 10 tournaments this past weekend in Socal! What were his choices? At first I though he was sandbagging, but after looking at the facts, the watered down amount of tournaments is to blame as of why teams can't find equally competitive teams to play with. To me its hard to argue that a coach is sandbagging by going to the Pats Cup and the competition is not up to par.


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## younothat (Jul 23, 2018)

These kind of scores don't do anybody good IMO.  

Changing the tournament scene:
http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/poll-changing-the-tournament-scene.15676/

With so many tournaments getting bracket competition that's balanced has become increasing difficult.

Seeding, placement, etc don't really help that much when the comp is not strong overall; top flight ranked or seeded teams don't play each other to the playoffs even when they do later on the games normally are not the best quality. 

With every team "having" to play tournaments they either play inter squads at their local tourny or venture outside and roll the dice and hope to get a fair shake or bracket.

Tournament teams used to mean something different and didn't start until a certain age; surf was like U11 or u12 I recall and you trained and prepared for a while before a coach would feel comfortable entering a tournament or not.  Normally only the top team in a age group per club would  entry in the top tier tournaments,  the rest would play scrimmages or train until some competition came along that made sense like in a smaller tournament that had less comp.

9 goal mercy rule; in futsal no shots only passes is what the coach would have the boys do when they where younger.


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## Surfref (Jul 23, 2018)

younothat said:


> ...9 goal mercy rule; in futsal no shots only passes is what the coach would have the boys do when they where younger.


The military adult league I referee has a 5 goal mercy rule.  With 15 minutes or less remaining in the game and one team is ahead by 5 goals or more then the game is over.  There are teams that will purposely stop scoring with a 4 goal lead or allow the other team to score a goal, so they can continue to play a full length game.  They just enjoy playing and don't like the mercy rule.

I could see this type of mercy rule at the U12 and below ages.  Those younger ages seem to be where most of the blowout scores occur.  A referees worst nightmare can be a blowout at the 15-18 age players.  Players at those ages take a blowout personal and will often get frustrated and start targeting the winning team with hard tackles.  As a referee my job becomes one of protecting the players even more than normal.  Yellow cards usually do not work well to calm the losing players down and I have to resort to calling even minor fouls and slowing the game down.  I really hate having to take that much control over the game, but player safety always comes first.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Jul 23, 2018)

MijoPlumber said:


> Aunte Sunil, are you serious?
> Question the coach who brought a team to a tournament in flight 2 that is soooo bad they lose 22-0!
> Maybe you just prefer AYSO. Pass those snacks out at halftime and have a sleepover!
> Fine the idiot who claims to be a club coach that loses so badly.   Give those parents their money back Mijo.



Cool story Mijo.


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## ilovethisgame (Jul 23, 2018)

Just check out the CSL league scores at the younger ages.  There are a few clubs that love to run up the scores.  Unfortunately as they get older those same teams lack the discipline and knowledge of the game, because the guy in the track suit figured out how to coach as little as possible and win a lot.


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## mlx (Jul 23, 2018)

What a bunch of pussies. This is competitive soccer. There shouldn't be any goal caps, that's just burying our heads in the sand. Also, it's not the wining team's fault at all; stop blaming them for being "that good". Kids (and parents) need to learn, accept and deal with reality.


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## forsomuch (Jul 23, 2018)

Strike hard, strike fast, no mercy! Cobra Kai FC!


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## Messi>CR7 (Jul 23, 2018)

forsomuch said:


> Strike hard, strike fast, no mercy! Cobra Kai FC!


Don't forget to sweep the legs of the goalkeeper after scoring the 22nd goal.


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## Not_that_Serious (Jul 23, 2018)

MijoPlumber said:


> Mijo, yes - you are right. About time someone said it.
> Blame the losing team for playing in a bracket they did not belong.   How really bad does any team have to be to give up 22 goals!!!


As mentioned, and others have shown, you see this more in Tier 2 Brackets. This is because that team, usually good tier 1s, are placed into lower brackets so they have no chance beating "academy" teams. Its not on the team "abusive" team.  Wouldnt be a good look for a Tier 1 team to beat one of their teams they are charging parents a boat load of $ for. So they let them beat up on their lower tier teams in order to avoid any splaining to parents. Big clubs usually dont have to explain anything to parents if the team they lose to only have "academy" or "super duper awesome" at the end of it


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 23, 2018)

All parties are at fault. 
Calsouth should have a rule and cap it at 8-0.   

Winning coach should have stopped it. 


Losing coach should have asked parents to forfeit at half time.


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## timbuck (Jul 23, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> As mentioned, and others have shown, you see this more in Tier 2 Brackets. This is because that team, usually good tier 1s, are placed into lower brackets so they have no chance beating "academy" teams. Its not on the team "abusive" team.  Wouldnt be a good look for a Tier 1 team to beat one of their teams they are charging parents a boat load of $ for. So they let them beat up on their lower tier teams in order to avoid any splaining to parents. Big clubs usually dont have to explain anything to parents if the team they lose to only have "academy" or "super duper awesome" at the end of it


I haven’t seen DA for 9 year olds yet.


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## fantasyfutbol (Jul 23, 2018)

MijoPlumber said:


> AYSO parents being sold on joining a “club” team thinking their Mijo’s and Mija’s will magically become competitive club players.  Not fair to the kids.


Accountability. Parents don't expose your non competitive soccer player to competitive tournaments.  The 22-0 losing team wasted the other team's time and hours spent practicing. That's just rude.  The other team worked hard to play well and the no accountability parents show up with their little snowflakes and expect to be accommodated.   AYSO is a fantastic organization that fits with the amount of effort you obviously put into the sport.  Stop wasting real soccer players time.


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## Socal United (Jul 24, 2018)

We just came back from Gothia Cup.  What I find interesting is it is viewed completely different there.  When you blow someone out, the losing teams seem to be very congratulatory on your team being good and they just say they need to work harder to get to that level.  I spoke to multiple coaches, they recognize that the gap is big on the younger age groups and it is going to happen.  In our one blowout I had a couple opposing parents meet me in the middle to congratulate me on my team and how we played.  They seem to have more of a suck it up mentality.


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## Sokrplayer75 (Jul 24, 2018)

futboldad1 said:


> What age group? Capping goals and subbing off kids who disobey is a weird and counterproductive thing to do. Ask for a set number of passes or something similar but to tell kids not to score when through is nonsense. So long as winning the coach/parents are not cheering for more shots and goals and the other team is playing with a full number of players (if they're not then remove to match them) I don't see lopsided scores as a sign of "low class."


7 seven goal lad, they pass ostly on their half.


futboldad1 said:


> What age group? Capping goals and subbing off kids who disobey is a weird and counterproductive thing to do. Ask for a set number of passes or something similar but to tell kids not to score when through is nonsense. So long as winning the coach/parents are not cheering for more shots and goals and the other team is playing with a full number of players (if they're not then remove to match them) I don't see lopsided scores as a sign of "low class."


U7/U8, coach is really good about making sure girls dont run up the score. Most of the time they pass on their side of the field


Nefutous said:


> Surfref I hate to disagree with you but why does it work on Sokrplayer’s team?  The answer is consequences, pulling the child out of the game. A lecture does nothing.


Yep these girls are are 7/8 and they did it last year at 6/7 age group. Only seen one girl score (she had the opportunity) and coach took her out. He does it in a professional manager and the girls learn. the only ones yelling for their daughters to score is the parents because they had no idea they were capped, lol. Eventually the parents learned, lol! Girls are smarter than they appear..........


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## Slammerdad (Jul 25, 2018)

IT's hard to access blame on anyone because you just don't know until the game starts.  I recently witnessed a 11-0 beatdown by a girls 03 team playing in a flight one bracket tournament.  The coach rotated, subbed up front, tried the "11 touch rule" but stopped short of telling the girls not to score.  Toward the end, it become a keepaway game in their half which was some of the worse soccer to watch ever.  So which is worse?  I'm not judging, just saying in the moment, hard to control


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## Justafan (Jul 25, 2018)

Slammerdad said:


> IT's hard to access blame on anyone because you just don't know until the game starts.  I recently witnessed a 11-0 beatdown by a girls 03 team playing in a flight one bracket tournament.  The coach rotated, subbed up front, tried the "11 touch rule" but stopped short of telling the girls not to score.  Toward the end, it become a keepaway game in their half which was some of the worse soccer to watch ever.  So which is worse?  I'm not judging, just saying in the moment, hard to control


I would much rather be scored upon than played keepaway.  Keepaway seems much more humiliating.  

And again for the upteenth time, I put most of the blame on the losing coach.  Call the game at some point or ask your players at halftime how they feel.  Nobody is answering this question.


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## forsomuch (Jul 25, 2018)

Justafan said:


> I would much rather be scored upon than played keepaway.  Keepaway seems much more humiliating.
> 
> And again for the upteenth time, I put most of the blame on the losing coach.  Call the game at some point or ask your players at halftime how they feel.  Nobody is answering this question.


You can slow the game down in many ways, so you don't just run down and score every 90 seconds.

Just about every tournament I have ever seen has a forfeit one forfeit all rule. You walk out on one game you have to forfeit all of them.


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## Soccercritique (Jul 25, 2018)

Justafan said:


> I would much rather be scored upon than played keepaway.  Keepaway seems much more humiliating.
> 
> And again for the upteenth time, I put most of the blame on the losing coach.  Call the game at some point or ask your players at halftime how they feel.  Nobody is answering this question.


I don't think you can call the game...thats quitting and what does that teach the kids?  At the same time, 22-0 is humiliating.  Just stay as positive as you can and keep filling that oreo cookie with positive stuff in the middle (you know, correction, positive, correction).  I would suggest that working on your possession game would be the best thing in this case, but most teams don't have a clue how to possess...


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## rainbow_unicorn (Jul 25, 2018)

Justafan said:


> I would much rather be scored upon than played keepaway.  Keepaway seems much more humiliating.
> 
> And again for the upteenth time, I put most of the blame on the losing coach.  Call the game at some point or ask your players at halftime how they feel.  Nobody is answering this question.


I would place some responsibility on the losing coach...but I would not want the coach to quit (sends wrong message to kids).  Instead the losing coach can just pack in the defense into their own defensive third and just look for opportunities to counter-attack.  It's hard to score when the entire defense is in their own box.


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## Oski (Jul 25, 2018)

Sometimes the teams are so mismatched that it's very difficult to limit scoring.  I reffed a game once (AYSO) where the stronger team -- after using a bunch of other strategies to keep the score down -- decided to keep all of their players in or near their own penalty area.  Whenever one of them would win the ball, they would then dribble by themselves through the entire opposing team.  Even going 1 on 11, they scored 5 times in a row.


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## sweeperkeeper (Jul 25, 2018)

As parents, I would think that we would want to avoid this imbalance at all costs.  The idea that "this is competitive" is the worst idea as it does nothing to grow the sport to a broader base.  This is the mentality that you often hear from wrestling, boxing and other sports that have gone to the waste side.  The idea that goal differential matters after 5 is a terrible rule.  I would much have teams go down to PKs or some other tie breaker rather than putting a 22-0 beating on a team.  Also, since this team is in the wrong flight, this is driving the other teams to beat on them as well.  "Hey Team X got 22, we need to get 23!" 

We have been on both sides of these blowouts and no one is happy when it happens.  The game turns into 90 minutes of messing around for the team that is winning and the losing team get frustrated.  While the example given by OP was for young girls, this happened not just at that level.  My concern is that there are teams that enjoy putting on this type of beating (and start showboating) where eventually the losing kids have enough and start fouling or going in hard.  As surfref mentioned, once the kids get a bit older it will be harder to handle.

One of the main issues that was brought up is that is partially due to the landscape of how many tournaments we have.  I think if there were fewer tournaments, then you would get teams more closely aligned to play together verses these blowouts or teams jumping into tournaments in the wrong flight (up or down) just because it is a free/low cost one.  Not sure how to actually do this but something needs to be done.


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## espola (Jul 25, 2018)

sweeperkeeper said:


> As parents, I would think that we would want to avoid this imbalance at all costs.  The idea that "this is competitive" is the worst idea as it does nothing to grow the sport to a broader base.  This is the mentality that you often hear from wrestling, boxing and other sports that have gone to the waste side.  The idea that goal differential matters after 5 is a terrible rule.  I would much have teams go down to PKs or some other tie breaker rather than putting a 22-0 beating on a team.  Also, since this team is in the wrong flight, this is driving the other teams to beat on them as well.  "Hey Team X got 22, we need to get 23!"
> 
> We have been on both sides of these blowouts and no one is happy when it happens.  The game turns into 90 minutes of messing around for the team that is winning and the losing team get frustrated.  While the example given by OP was for young girls, this happened not just at that level.  My concern is that there are teams that enjoy putting on this type of beating (and start showboating) where eventually the losing kids have enough and start fouling or going in hard.  As surfref mentioned, once the kids get a bit older it will be harder to handle.
> 
> One of the main issues that was brought up is that is partially due to the landscape of how many tournaments we have.  I think if there were fewer tournaments, then you would get teams more closely aligned to play together verses these blowouts or teams jumping into tournaments in the wrong flight (up or down) just because it is a free/low cost one.  Not sure how to actually do this but something needs to be done.


"Gone to the waste side" now enters my list of spoonerisms.


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## MijoPlumber (Jul 25, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> As mentioned, and others have shown, you see this more in Tier 2 Brackets. This is because that team, usually good tier 1s, are placed into lower brackets so they have no chance beating "academy" teams. Its not on the team "abusive" team.  Wouldnt be a good look for a Tier 1 team to beat one of their teams they are charging parents a boat load of $ for. So they let them beat up on their lower tier teams in order to avoid any splaining to parents. Big clubs usually dont have to explain anything to parents if the team they lose to only have "academy" or "super duper awesome" at the end of it


Yea, agree but it was not a team from the host club beating a rival. It was a team from another club. They played well.


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## jrcaesar (Jul 26, 2018)

Oski said:


> enever one of them would win the ball, they would then dribble by themselves through the entire opposing team. Even going 1 on 11, they scored 5 times in a row.


I like that strategy by the winning coach: Kids need to practice one-on-one skills and the likelihood that the player will beat all 10 defenders by herself is low (you would think). Makes the defending players defend something without just watching 60 straight possession passes. Key is to make sure it's not the superstars who are doing that one-on-one carrying.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 26, 2018)

The tactic I’ve seen implemented in lopsided games is that when Team A (who is blowing out Team B) is required to connect x # of passes loses possession or Team b gets a touch, the ball has to go all the way back to the keeper before they can start their pass count again.


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## 46n2 (Jul 26, 2018)

if its so one sided , pull as many players as you can, demand so many touches from your players prior to advancing, ultimately pull your goalie....
22-0 is a tough loss , and totally uncalled for......even if the team is not up to par , playing up in tournament or just not a good team......theres no reason for the score to be that high maybe 10,11......but 22???
A good spanking is always fun, but kicking and beating someone while their down is not part of good sportsmanship or how you should be raising these kids.
in the end this was uncalled for.


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## dawson (Jul 26, 2018)

I've have always said that I would rather lose 1-0 then win 12-0 . ( and only partially in jest )
Having been on both sides nobody is happy or gains anything when one team is over matched.

And when the superior team starts playing keep away or  starts taking turns having one player try to dribble the whole weaker team or some other variation ,  I find that even more humiliating and embarrassing .
If we are really serious about this problem , lets keep it simple and stop the game before it gets out of hand.

Perhaps for all  youth games if a team goes ahead by 7 goals ( could be a different number ) the game is stopped . Nobody benefits by continuing to play an over matched opponent including when the better team tries various methods to stop or slow down the scoring.  All that does is prolong the humiliation for NO GOOD REASON .

Even professional boxing has the 3 knockdown rule and the fight is stopped.


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## Surfref (Jul 26, 2018)

I was talking to my daughter yesterday about this topic and she reminded me of one of her college games and that sometimes it is okay to beat the crap out of the other team.  She was a college freshman and in their third preseason game they played a team from Missouri that they beat the prior year 5-1, but the other team took two of my daughters team's players out for the season with a broken tib/fib and ankle.  Both nasty intentional tackles. When my daughter played the Missouri team their goal was to get revenge by embarrassing them and running the score up.  They ended up beating them 11-0 with no one getting hurt.


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## Penalty Kicks Stink (Jul 26, 2018)

With only 5 teams in this age groups bracket it seems to me Pats and all their chapters could have offered at no cost or minimal cost to get (3) more 2009 teams so they could split the brackets into 2 tiers at a minimum.  How do you not have your club teams support your own tournament?


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## Kopi (Jul 26, 2018)

My daughters a keeper and one game (U14) we were being blown out 11-0 there were circumstances that played into the lost injury, heat exhaustion.. The opposing coach never pulled back his players even when we were down to 9 players. When the whistle finally blew (thank God) I walked up to my daughter looking to console her and when I'm about 5' away she says " Dad I think that's one of the best games I played so far" it could have easily have been 22-0. My point being maybe us as parents are more concerned about the score then they are. JMO


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## exkeeper (Jul 27, 2018)

Justafan said:


> Fair enough, but then the question becomes is what you want the winning coach to do, pull everybody but the goaly?  What if the coach did everything humanly possible?  To me, it’s more on the losing coach, either forfeit the game or call it at half.
> 
> I for one find it more insulting for the winning team to start pulling players.  This happened to my dd’s back in the AYSO days and I told the coach to keep his full team in and not take it easy on us.


I agree with this 100%. It becomes hard when you start trying not to score and what it looks like to the other team. When I coached years ago in the u14 girls division we were beating a team 8-0 at half-time and when we started the second half we started to play keep away and connect 8 passes before going forward. The parents on the other team started yelling that we were just messing with them now and got all fired up. The girls got mad not he other side as well from their parents yelling. We had already rotated players from he front to the back and had all the subs on the field. However 22-0 is still out of hand.


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## MijoPlumber (Jul 27, 2018)

Kopi said:


> My daughters a keeper and one game (U14) we were being blown out 11-0 there were circumstances that played into the lost injury, heat exhaustion.. The opposing coach never pulled back his players even when we were down to 9 players. When the whistle finally blew (thank God) I walked up to my daughter looking to console her and when I'm about 5' away she says " Dad I think that's one of the best games I played so far" it could have easily have been 22-0. My point being maybe us as parents are more concerned about the score then they are. JMO


Mijo, Really that’s a strong player and respect her for that. That’s a tough situation and in that case the other coach should have throttled back.


exkeeper said:


> I agree with this 100%. It becomes hard when you start trying not to score and what it looks like to the other team. When I coached years ago in the u14 girls division we were beating a team 8-0 at half-time and when we started the second half we started to play keep away and connect 8 passes before going forward. The parents on the other team started yelling that we were just messing with them now and got all fired up. The girls got mad not he other side as well from their parents yelling. We had already rotated players from he front to the back and had all the subs on the field. However 22-0 is still out of hand.


Mija, I heard the OC Surf coach pulled all his forwards back and put his defenders and keeper up top! His keeper scored several of the second half goals!  What more can the guy do?


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## seesnake (Jul 30, 2018)

I've coached teams. after it is a four or five goal difference, time to play keep ball. It's a kids' game.


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## mlx (Jul 30, 2018)

There's nothing more humiliating that seeing that the other team is not playing at the maximum they can and still be losing. In other words, losing 5-0 to a team that is only passing and who has the goalie as forward and the shortest player as a goalie, etc., is not only humiliating, but disrespectful to the game and to the other team.  Losing to a team who is playing to their max (or close to their max) 12-0 is honorable; it pushes the losing team to their top limits and every minute of the game they are learning. Learning new moves, new strategy, new ways to block, etc. You parents need to stop getting your panties in a bunch and just tell your kiddos that this is only a game and that they did great and to use everything they learned to improve, yadayada... At the end, losing 22-0 means you can improve that much, and would make it a bench mark to accomplish as a team.


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## seesnake (Jul 30, 2018)

mlx said:


> There's nothing more humiliating that seeing that the other team is not playing at the maximum they can and still be losing. In other words, losing 5-0 to a team that is only passing and who has the goalie as forward and the shortest player as a goalie, etc., is not only humiliating, but disrespectful to the game and to the other team.  Losing to a team who is playing to their max (or close to their max) 12-0 is honorable; it pushes the losing team to their top limits and every minute of the game they are learning. Learning new moves, new strategy, new ways to block, etc. You parents need to stop getting your panties in a bunch and just tell your kiddos that this is only a game and that they did great and to use everything they learned to improve, yadayada... At the end, losing 22-0 means you can improve that much, and would make it a bench mark to accomplish as a team.


Respectfully disagree. When youngers just try to play keep ball, they make mistakes, which ends up looking like a more balanced game. Every little kid knows when a goal is scored and it is black and white- failure/success- if you can turn the game into essentially a directional rondo, you've given everyone a chance to find something of value in the playing of the game, which is the point, not the scoreline.


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## timbuck (Jul 30, 2018)

Agreed.  If you are winning by that big of a margin-  it is likely that a handful of your goals came from ugly soccer.  Not saying this team plays boot ball-  but there’s probably a few fast, strong kids out there that were at a different level than the other team.  Forcing those kids to think about passing first instead of blowing by the traffic cones on the way to goal can help overall development.


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## Multi Sport (Aug 2, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Just saw a girls 2009 score of 22-0 at Pats cup this weekend.
> These are 9 year olds.
> Clearly someone is playing in the wrong bracket, but come on?
> Lots of discussion lately on inappropriate parent behavior on the sidelines.  If there ever was a reason for a parent to lose it against other parents or coaches-  I think this is probably the right time.
> Just wow.


When a tournament is based on goal differential it opens up these type of scores. A simple 3 point system with various tie breakers (the WC had an interesting new one) usually is enough.


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## espola (Aug 2, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> When a tournament is based on goal differential it opens up these type of scores. A simple 3 point system with various tie breakers (the WC had an interesting new one) usually is enough.


WC tiebreakers included unlimited goal differential before the interesting new one.


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## Multi Sport (Aug 2, 2018)

espola said:


> WC tiebreakers included unlimited goal differential before the interesting new one.


True. Probably why Panama got worked over the way they did. Do you like the new tie breaker?


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## mlx (Aug 3, 2018)

Something that all of you fail to understand is that the objective (ONLY objective) of the game of football is to score goals; hence, goal difference MUST always be taken in consideration.

I know it's a cultural thing that must of you fail to understand, not growing up, living and understanding the game like in Mexico, and South American and European countries.

If you want your kids just passing a ball and running aimlessly, just go to a park and have them just do that. During a competitive game (such as the ones in club soccer) just learn to deal with the fact that the "Goal" is the whole purpose.

And again, if you feel a team beating your kid's team for more than 5 goals is soooo offensive and your kid's live will be ruined and his self steam damaged for life; then club soccer is not for you nor for your kid. Maybe AYSO where everybody plays and everybody is a winner is more for you.


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## Multi Sport (Aug 3, 2018)

mlx said:


> Something that all of you fail to understand is that the objective (ONLY objective) of the game of football is to score goals; hence, goal difference MUST always be taken in consideration.
> 
> I know it's a cultural thing that must of you fail to understand, not growing up, living and understanding the game like in Mexico, and South American and European countries.
> 
> ...


Actually the goal is to win the game.. but sometimes a tie is all you get even if your kid scored 5 times.


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## focomoso (Aug 3, 2018)

mlx said:


> Something that all of you fail to understand is that the objective (ONLY objective) of the game of football is to score goals.


Nope. The goal is to win - or even not lose sometimes. Or "make a good show of it". Or keep a clean sheet. This is true at every level everywhere in the world.


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## timbuck (Aug 3, 2018)

Is the goal of a 9 year old team to win?  Winning matters. And it should matter.  It's way more fun than losing.  But if you are up to 10 goals by "winning" using one way of playing -  why not try to teach the kids something new?
I've coached youth basketball.  5th graders.  Mixed abilities, but most of them playing organized basketball for the 1st time.  We had a stud player on our team.  And a taller player on our team.  I could have said "Get the ball to the stud.  Only she shoots. And the tall player -  I'll just teach her to box out and grab rebounds.  The other 3 players -  you just get out of the way."
And on defense -  I could have taught a zone.  Everyone keep their feet inside the paint and keep your hands up --  Because most 5th graders don't have a range past about 10 feet.
We probably would have only given up a basket or 2 per game by playing this way. And scored a ton.
We played against several teams that did exactly what I mention above.
I ONLY teach man-to-man defense at this age.
And on offense -  We dind't try to do any super complex plays.  Because the kids could barely dribble or shoot.  We spent time in practice on layups and shooting.
We taught a simple pick and roll to beat a man-to-man defense.  And a simple drive and kick-it to beat a zone.
We had 2 inbound plays with simple names.

We wound up with 7 wins and 3 losses this year for a 2nd place finish.  Every kid but one scored several baskets (Girl who didn't score has a mild disability.  We tried like heck to get her a basket).  Team that finished ahead of us had a 5th grade girl who was nearly 6 feet tall. She scored most of the points the 2 times that we played them.  I'm not sure if she ever dribbled the ball.  We gave them their only loss the 1st time that we played them.  

At the younger ages it's more about learning than winning. Not sure anyone learns from a 22-0 shutout.


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## mlx (Aug 3, 2018)

focomoso said:


> Nope. The goal is to win - or even not lose sometimes. Or "make a good show of it". Or keep a clean sheet. This is true at every level everywhere in the world.


Don't be so dense. Yes, the goal is to win. How do you win? by scoring goals. And yes, sometimes not losing by X goals is enough to qualify to the next round, but that's beyond the point.  The goal of the game is to win by scoring goals.


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## mlx (Aug 3, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Is the goal of a 9 year old team to win?  Winning matters. And it should matter.  It's way more fun than losing.  But if you are up to 10 goals by "winning" using one way of playing -  why not try to teach the kids something new?


Of course that at this age players need to be developed. And that's a whole process taken place during practices, and actual games.

Example:
When my kid's team formed, they were being  beating left and right. Did we (parents) cry ourselves to sleep? Of course not! we understood why and guided our kids accordingly. They learned a lot from playing tier 1 and tier 2 teams. By the end of the second year, they dominated the league and were on the other end of the spectrum. They became better, by playing teams above their level.


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## espola (Aug 3, 2018)

focomoso said:


> Nope. The goal is to win - or even not lose sometimes. Or "make a good show of it". Or keep a clean sheet. This is true at every level everywhere in the world.


If it is early in the season, once you have a comfortable lead it might be a good chance to practice in a game situation things the team is having trouble with or try out people in different spots on set plays.


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## Multi Sport (Aug 3, 2018)

espola said:


> If it is early in the season, once you have a comfortable lead it might be a good chance to practice in a game situation things the team is having trouble with or try out people in different spots on set plays.


Ok... something else we agree with.


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## focomoso (Aug 3, 2018)

mlx said:


> Yes, the goal is to win.


Again, not always. Playing for a draw happens all the time in tournaments (including the World Cup) and in league games where you know your opponent is better (even more so if you're playing away).



mlx said:


> How do you win? by scoring goals.


And... by not letting the other team score. 

One of the benefits of making your team pass when they have a huge lead is that they move the ball forward and back which ends up creating tougher situations to get out of. I've been on both sides of this (the winning and loosing) and when the better team turns off the tap, the lesser team starts to come out of their shell and push the better team back. It helps the better team develop possession and defense tremendously.


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## HouseofCards (Aug 3, 2018)

focomoso said:


> It helps the better team develop possession and defense tremendously.


You are kidding yourself if you think anyone is developing tremendously in these type of games.


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## Keepermom2 (Aug 4, 2018)

I talked to a gal at the hotel pool in San Diego last weekend and her kid's team (2010 I think) beat a team 21-0.  She said the coach tried making the girls have to pass 7 times before scoring among other things and he even took 2 players off of the field and they kept scoring.  If I had just seen the score, I would have thought ill of the coach but listening to what this coach tried to do gives a different perspective.


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## Soccercritique (Aug 4, 2018)

mlx said:


> Don't be so dense. Yes, the goal is to win. How do you win? by scoring goals. And yes, sometimes not losing by X goals is enough to qualify to the next round, but that's beyond the point.  The goal of the game is to win by scoring goals.


The goal at the 2009 level is to win?  Aside from the pyramid being upside down (rich kids playing, sub rules, this league, that league etc), at this age group, winning isn't or shouldn't be the main focus.  The main focus should be development and should always trump winning.  I always have this debate with people...In our country our kids are limited to drills, drills, kickball, drills drills kick ball.  In other countries, kids are encouraged to be creative, play pick up games where their creativity can flourish.  While there always is a winner and a loser, at the younger age groups, the focus of winning is ONLY to please parents and inflate egos.  DOC's are guilty of that.  Why not create a culture where kids develop FIRST? 

It's true that our women's team is one of the top teams in the nation, but lets not kid ourselves here.  It's not because they're technical..it's because we have beast athletes that are faster and stronger than our opponents.  But we're seeing that the other countries are learning from their male counterparts, learning how to properly pass, receive, move into space and not just kick the ball forward and hope forwards can outrun the back line.  If the trend continues, you'll see a decline in our women's game (and in a lot of instances, you have!).

But back to your point, coaches/DOC's should know the level of where their teams are and not put them in a position to utterly fail and demoralize their kids.  Not fair to young kids to be put in a position like that.


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## coachrefparent (Aug 4, 2018)

Winning is all that matters for youth soccer= Sunday league.


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## watfly (Aug 5, 2018)

Winning is important, playing good soccer (development) is important, having fun is important.  The trick is finding the right balance which is why a good coach is so critical.  Winning is important because it builds confidence which cant be overstated.  Now a 22-0 doesn't accomplish much, but let's be honest in the hundreds of games played every weekend a blowout like this is rare.  One of my pet peeves is when we try to legislate or make rules around events that rarely occur.

A 22-0 blowout is a great teachable moment for both teams.  The worst messages to your kids are for the losing team's coach or parents to whine about the sportsmanship of the other team or for the winning team to gloat about their victory.  If your the losing team, nut up and if your the winning team try showing some humility.


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## Eagle33 (Aug 6, 2018)

The biggest problem for 9 year olds is not winning or loosing, but having competitive games.


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## focomoso (Aug 6, 2018)

HouseofCards said:


> You are kidding yourself if you think anyone is developing tremendously in these type of games.


I agree that these games aren't good for either team, but if you find yourself in one, what are your options? Running up the score against a lessor team seems to be less helpful than trying to keep possession - something that is harder to learn at younger ages.


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## mlx (Aug 6, 2018)

Keepermom2 said:


> I talked to a gal at the hotel pool in San Diego last weekend and her kid's team (2010 I think) beat a team 21-0.  She said the coach tried making the girls have to pass 7 times before scoring among other things and he even took 2 players off of the field and they kept scoring.  If I had just seen the score, I would have thought ill of the coach but listening to what this coach tried to do gives a different perspective.


How humiliating for the losing team to know they were losing against a team that was just kicking the ball around and with only 9 players in the field. In boxing, it would like like losing to an opponent who has one hand tied to his back. That's even more disrespectful.

Now, the coach should not expose his/her team to this kind of scores by placing them in the right flight. If they are flight 3 and still lose this bad, maybe he/she needs to develop them more before competing.


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## hb_soccer_dad (Aug 6, 2018)

Often times tournaments are forced to group Flight 1, 2 & 3 teams in the same bracket. Which is unfortunate. There just aren't enough teams for tournaments to have 3 flights. Understanding that coaches should pick and choose their tournaments more closely to their teams level. Just my .02$


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## watfly (Aug 6, 2018)

watfly said:


> A 22-0 blowout is a great teachable moment for both teams.  The worst messages to your kids are for the losing team's coach or parents to whine about the sportsmanship of the other team or for the winning team to gloat about their victory.


I have to actually correct that statement.  The worst message that could be sent would be for the losing coach to forfeit the match, like some here have mind-boggingly suggested.  "Hey kids when the going gets tough just quit."


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## timbuck (Aug 6, 2018)

hb_soccer_dad said:


> Often times tournaments are forced to group Flight 1, 2 & 3 teams in the same bracket. Which is unfortunate. There just aren't enough teams for tournaments to have 3 flights. Understanding that coaches should pick and choose their tournaments more closely to their teams level. Just my .02$


I’d say there are plenty of teams. There’s just too many tournaments.


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## Surf Zombie (Aug 12, 2018)

Our town 5/6 grade girls team (which is 12 strong club players) played in a charity jamboree yesterday to raise money for the family of a police officer who was killed last month.  Each team in the event played two games.  First game was against another fairly strong team and ended up 5-0.  

The second game was against a smaller (probably 4/5 grade) team who had traveled up from out of state. Knew from the get go it was going to be very hard to keep the score down. Last thing I wanted to do was run up the score in a charity event. I spoke to the other coach and he added an additional player on the field and we put in a “five pass rule” before shooting for our girls.  Game still ended up 10 or 11-0, but I felt like the kids on the other team fought hard the whole game and probably benefitted from it. 

Sometimes it’s really hard to keep the score down even when the kids buy into why we are asking them to do it.


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## ItsCalledSoccer (Aug 12, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I’d say there are plenty of teams. There’s just too many tournaments.


Yes this is the issue, too many tournaments and too many leagues results in travelling further to find competitive games. Being in Orange County, I don't see any reason to travel outside of South OC, there are enough teams here and if everyone was in the same league/system then everyone would be a winner.


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Aug 12, 2018)

Sometimes, teams will be severely outmatched. What should a coach do in this instance? It is hard to strike a difficult balance between letting the score get out of hand or embarrassing the other team. The goal in this instance is to make a somewhat competitive challenge without humiliating the other team.

To me as a player. Losing 5-0 to a 11v7 is just as humiliating as losing 22-0 to 11v11. If the other team plays keep away instead of try to score goals, that is insulting and frustrating.
The perfect theoretical solution is for the coach to handicap his own players without the other team noticing. Keep-away and removing 4 players is noticeable. Shouting "Only 2 touches" so the whole field can hear is noticeable. Obviously the perfect solution is theoretical as there will always be some sort of notice to any solution, but the closer we get to the theoretical solution, the better.

Switching player roles is not that noticeable. Telling your subs they only have 2 touches and subbing them in so the whole team is on the same page is not noticeable. Telling your team (via subs or half time) that they can only volley or header a goal from a cross is not that noticeable. Doing your best Spain vs Russia cosplay, using only the weak foot to shoot or pass. All this is really the most a coach can do. He should also tell his players to not advertise that they are being handicapped.

And for God's sake. If you put the goalie on the field, inform your team and your goalie at halftime that they shouldn't celebrate like madmen when the goalie score his first goal ever, which just so happens to be the 11th goal of the game.


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## Grace T. (Aug 13, 2018)

Definitelynotanotherref said:


> And for God's sake. If you put the goalie on the field, inform your team and your goalie at halftime that they shouldn't celebrate like madmen when the goalie score his first goal ever, which just so happens to be the 11th goal of the game.


If the team is 12 and under and this is the first goal the keeper has scored, it might explain why a "winning" team is going 11-0.  United Soccer Coaches (formerly NSCAA) recs are clear that goalkeepers shouldn't be 100% specialized until age 12.  If that's really happening, it may be an indication that the team has prioritized winning over player development....in which case no wonder they are so dominant, but if you buy into the guidelines, the keeper (let alone field players who may be overspecialized) may be getting the shorter end of the stick.


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## Surfref (Aug 13, 2018)

I had a G15 semi-final game recently that was 6-0 at halftime (30 minute half).  The two coaches came to me and my ARs at halftime and said that if the score gets to 9-0 to just end the game. The game ended 10 minutes into the second half.  The losing coach had to restrain two of his player's fathers because they thought we stopped the game early and wanted to tell us that we sucked for not letting the kids play a full game.  Not sure why those two dads were so mad.  The winning teams 9 goals all came from 9 different players.


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## outside! (Aug 13, 2018)

Wow, a semi-final ending early at 9-0. Either lopsided or small brackets?


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## Keepermom2 (Aug 14, 2018)

One of our U-15 games had a small bracket this past weekend and we just stopped scoring when the score was 9-1 and our team basically played keep away.  It was great for my Keeper daughter because she was getting practice with the ball being played back to her, but I almost think that was more demoralizing for the other team.  I know our coach had the right intentions for it, and she would be beaten up by comments if she let the score keep going up, but was playing keep away better?  Maybe I am just dealing with my own traumatic experiences with kids playing keep away with my glove.  LOL  I think there is a life lesson in being killed in a game for the olders...you have two choices 1. Let it drive you to do whatever you can to be able to compete at that level in the future or 2. Get yourself in the right place that works for your skill set.  We are not equipped to compete every where.  Having said that, I think the best choice is for the demolishing team to play with less players on the field.  I wouldn't have said that prior to this last weekend but I hated watching the "keep away game".  At the same time, that is what they do at practice to learn how to defend so is it that demoralizing for them?  The reality is the girls have probably all forgot about it and they are now worried about what they will wear on the first day of school.


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## Surfref (Aug 14, 2018)

outside! said:


> Wow, a semi-final ending early at 9-0. Either lopsided or small brackets?


Smaller tournament in LA county.  It’s only flight was divided into two brackets that played cross bracket. The six teams included tier 1-3 teams.  One bracket had all of the stronger teams and the other bracket had the weaker teams which included two teams from the tournament’s club.  The tournament team was the one that lost 9-0.  It was apparent that the tournament set the brackets so the home club teams would make the semis and I am sure they thought at least one would make the final.  The two teams in the final were from the strong bracket, so the home clubs cooking didn’t work.


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## outside! (Aug 14, 2018)

I thought I smelled home cooking.


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