# In SoCal what’s it going to be DA/DPL or ECNL?



## JoeZ (Apr 17, 2018)

Interested to learn what members think about the current situation pros and cons.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Apr 17, 2018)

Might not be much of a choice if ECNL shrinks to only 5 SoCal teams and none of them in LA County or north.


----------



## Real Deal (Apr 17, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Might not be much of a choice if ECNL shrinks to only 5 SoCal teams and none of them in LA County or north.


I just want the war to end.


----------



## Fact (Apr 17, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> Interested to learn what members think about the current situation pros and cons.


Have you been living under a rock for the last year?


----------



## Not_that_Serious (Apr 18, 2018)

ecnl is always rumored to shut down every year and DA has no such rumors.


----------



## Sunil Illuminati (Apr 18, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> ecnl is always rumored to shut down every year and DA has no such rumors.


DA's not even a year old?


----------



## Not_that_Serious (Apr 18, 2018)

Sunil Illuminati said:


> DA's not even a year old?


I meant in general. You also have to consider where DA gets its support. It isnt going anywhere


----------



## Info (Apr 18, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> ecnl is always rumored to shut down every year and DA has no such rumors.


ECNL is not going anywhere. Some of the top clubs in the country have dropped DA after the first year and are playing ECNL next year.  ECNL has been running strong since 2009. Whoever is creating these false rumors about ECNL has an agenda.


----------



## El Clasico (Apr 18, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> You also have to consider where DA gets its support. It isnt going anywhere


Just like the MNT. Isn't that the problem?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Apr 18, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> Just like the MNT. Isn't that the problem?


Guess you could say that about a lot of Federations that didn’t make the WC this year.


----------



## JoeZ (Apr 18, 2018)

Fact said:


> Have you been living under a rock for the last year?


@Fact, it seems a number of strong clubs Girls programs have decided to exit ECNL and move to DPL within the last week.  This appears to be a positive thing for us considering the concentration of
DA and now DPL clubs and teams in the area.
I’m interested in others views on this?


----------



## SocalPapa (Apr 18, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> @Fact, it seems a number of strong clubs Girls programs have decided to exit ECNL and move to DPL within the last week.  This appears to be a positive thing for us considering the concentration of
> DA and now DPL clubs and teams in the area.
> I’m interested in others views on this?


No club would pull out of ECNL just so they could play in a regional league like DPL.  But if any dual clubs lose their ECNL franchises it will be interesting to see what they decide to do with their B teams.


----------



## El Clasico (Apr 18, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> @Fact, it seems a number of strong clubs Girls programs have decided to exit ECNL and move to DPL within the last week.  This appears to be a positive thing for us considering the concentration of
> DA and now DPL clubs and teams in the area.
> I’m interested in others views on this?


You completely just made that up out of thin air.  Nobody is that ignorant of the facts. Are you Lampchop's alter ego?


----------



## MWN (Apr 18, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> @Fact, it seems a number of strong clubs Girls programs have decided to exit ECNL and move to DPL within the last week.  This appears to be a positive thing for us considering the concentration of DA and now DPL clubs and teams in the area.  I’m interested in others views on this?


Here is my view.  First, I don't think you understand the absurdity of your statement.  I'm not attacking you, but the concept is akin to stating ... "it seams a number of Bloods are exiting the gang and moving to the Crip's JUNIOR/PRESCHOOL gang."   The idea that a Club would exit the ECNL and move to the DPL is silly.  If true (highly unlikely) the DOC/Admin group is lead by fools that fundamentally don't understand that the DPL simply allows the Girls DA teams to bring in more dollars by putting out a carrot of "someday your DPL daughter could make our Girls DA team."  The DPL is a "B" league for the DA, just like the EGSL is the "B" league for ECNL teams (in the region).

Now, you might have a dual Girls DA and ECNL program that drops their ECNL team for the DPL, but that isn't the same as what you wrote.  No Club Admin in their right mind would drop the ECNL (competes at the same level as the Girls DA) and move to a regional junior league (unless they were in a serious auto accident and suffered debilitating head trauma).


----------



## JoeZ (Apr 18, 2018)

MWN said:


> Here is my view.  First, I don't think you understand the absurdity of your statement.  I'm not attacking you, but the concept is akin to stating ... "it seams a number of Bloods are exiting the gang and moving to the Crip's JUNIOR/PRESCHOOL gang."   The idea that a Club would exit the ECNL and move to the DPL is silly.  If true (highly unlikely) the DOC/Admin group is lead by fools that fundamentally don't understand that the DPL simply allows the Girls DA teams to bring in more dollars by putting out a carrot of "someday your DPL daughter could make our Girls DA team."  The DPL is a "B" league for the DA, just like the EGSL is the "B" league for ECNL teams (in the region).
> 
> Now, you might have a dual Girls DA and ECNL program that drops their ECNL team for the DPL, but that isn't the same as what you wrote.  No Club Admin in their right mind would drop the ECNL (competes at the same level as the Girls DA) and move to a regional junior league (unless they were in a serious auto accident and suffered debilitating head trauma).


@MWN,  your aggressive response is amusing. Why take such an approach. Relax and enjoy these times, they will be over before you know it.

You wrote: “Now, you might have a dual Girls DA and ECNL program that drops their ECNL team for the DPL” — my apology for not stipulating and confusing you, this is what I was referring to. Only a fool, as you say, would think the clubs/program in question would not be a dual DA and ECNL club. ECNL and DPL are similar and not correlated as you stated. 

Candidly, I don’t buy anyone’s notion ECNL or DPL are B leagues - they are top leagues for those players that want to play for their HS.  If it were not for that stipulation my daughter would be playing DA as would many others. Several current ECNL teams can easily beat some current DA teams. Some DA coaches seem to not want to even scrimmage their ECNL or DPL teams!

Anyway - thanks for your views.


----------



## MWN (Apr 18, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> Interested to learn what members think about the current situation pros and cons.


I probably should have read your first message seeking advice.  Here is the deal:

ECNL - Great track record of developing "girls" and getting good competition and scholarships for those girls.  Most current Woman National Team players (of a certain age) played on an ECNL team.  Less restrictions, such as HS play, coaching credentials, tournaments, etc.

Girls DA - U.S. Soccer's attempt to replace the ECNL with a program that is less attractive to girls.  More restrictions, such as, NO HS play, tougher coaching credentials, fewer tournaments/showcases, etc.

Girls DPL - Regional league formed by SoCal Girls DA teams that realized they had no place to park their less talented girls that were not ready for the GDA.  These clubs appreciated that parents would pay more for an "exclusive league."  The DPL is just like the EGSL, NPL, Super-Y, CRL, etc.  

EGSL (bonus answer) - Regional league formed by ECNL teams that realized they had no place to park their less talented girls.  These clubs appreciated that parents would pay more if they had a more exclusive league (on paper).  The EGSL is just like the DPL, NPL, Super-Y, CRL, etc. 

Now, since you asked, here is what you need to know:
Any club or league that gets in the way of your daughter's mental well-being, development and exposure to college coaches should be avoided.  Any club that dictates to your daughter where and when she can play, especially if she wants to experience H.S. soccer with her social group should be avoided.  If your daughter makes the decision for herself ... great.  If some dumbass at the USSF in Chicago is making that decision then you should reconsider what is important.  The sole focus for elite girls should be college, followed by college, followed by college, and then college.  There are currently NO Woman's national team players that were pulled straight from the ECNL or now girls DA and likely there will not be any in the future except or that super-rare unicorn (think Marta).  

The path for girls to the U.S. Woman's national team is (1) go to college; (2) get drafted by the semi-pro, underfunded, will never be financially viable NWSL and play for a NWSL team in front of 5k fans while working another job; and (3) get invited to a National team camp (have to quit your actual paying job) and go on the road for an experience of a lifetime.


----------



## MWN (Apr 18, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> @MWN,  your aggressive response is amusing. Why take such an approach. Relax and enjoy these times, they will be over before you know it.
> 
> You wrote: “Now, you might have a dual Girls DA and ECNL program that drops their ECNL team for the DPL” — my apology for not stipulating and confusing you, this is what I was referring to. Only a fool, as you say, would think the clubs/program in question would not be a dual DA and ECNL club. ECNL and DPL are similar and not correlated as you stated.
> 
> ...


Two points: First, ECNL is an "A" league and most ECNL teams would be competitive to GDA teams and vice-versa because the olders on those ECNL teams already have college in the bag and don't want the headaches of the GDA.  You can disagree, but DPL and EGSL are "B" leagues/teams for their Girls DA and ECNL teams.  In fact, the DPL "sales pitch" is as follows:

*League Overview & Purpose*
_The Development Player League (DPL) is designed to expand the Girls Development Academy (DA) player pool for participating clubs. The league creates a highly professional training environment and competitive model for aspiring DA players, bridging the gap between club soccer and Development Academy soccer._​
Second, College coaches are looking at ECNL and now Girls USSDA.  DPL and EGSL don't provide any more additional level of competition than what a team would get in the NPL, CRL, etc.

That said, if its good for your daughter, then great ... that is all that matters.


----------



## RichMan (Apr 18, 2018)

MWN said:


> I probably should have read your first message seeking advice.  Here is the deal:
> 
> ECNL - Great track record of developing "girls" and getting good competition and scholarships for those girls.  Most current Woman National Team players (of a certain age) played on an ECNL team.  Less restrictions, such as HS play, coaching credentials, tournaments, etc.
> 
> ...


Boom!  Well put!  We all oughtta print that out for our dd's just as a roadmap for an option should she chose it. .. my 2 cents


----------



## Fact (Apr 18, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> @Fact, it seems a number of strong clubs Girls programs have decided to exit ECNL and move to DPL within the last week.  This appears to be a positive thing for us considering the concentration of
> DA and now DPL clubs and teams in the area.
> I’m interested in others views on this?


Can you name them?


----------



## JoeZ (Apr 18, 2018)

I agree with what you shared though I am just now learning what DPL is all about and it’s level of competitiveness.  I’m not sure DPL will be lesser than ECNL next year considering the clubs (ours included) that just announced moving girls ECNL program to DPL, alongside the DA program. 

From my experience and what I am reading on this site from others, development seems to be lacking at all levels and clubs unless you have a strong serious coach and do weekly outside private trainings or be on a DA team.  I have not seen or experienced any flow down of training standards from ECNL or Club to coaches. 

Thanks again for all the feedback.


----------



## Fact (Apr 18, 2018)

MWN said:


> Here is my view.  First, I don't think you understand the absurdity of your statement.  I'm not attacking you, but the concept is akin to stating ... "it seams a number of Bloods are exiting the gang and moving to the Crip's JUNIOR/PRESCHOOL gang."   The idea that a Club would exit the ECNL and move to the DPL is silly.  If true (highly unlikely) the DOC/Admin group is lead by fools that fundamentally don't understand that the DPL simply allows the Girls DA teams to bring in more dollars by putting out a carrot of "someday your DPL daughter could make our Girls DA team."  The DPL is a "B" league for the DA, just like the EGSL is the "B" league for ECNL teams (in the region).
> 
> Now, you might have a dual Girls DA and ECNL program that drops their ECNL team for the DPL, but that isn't the same as what you wrote.  No Club Admin in their right mind would drop the ECNL (competes at the same level as the Girls DA) and move to a regional junior league (unless they were in a serious auto accident and suffered debilitating head trauma).


Your best post ever!  Short (at least for you) and to the point.  Just kidding I love your posts counselor.  Let me know when I can start in with my lawyer jokes.


----------



## MWN (Apr 18, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> I agree with what you shared though I am just now learning what DPL is all about and it’s level of competitiveness.  I’m not sure DPL will be lesser than ECNL next year considering the clubs (ours included) that just announced moving girls ECNL program to DPL, alongside the DA program.
> 
> From my experience and what I am reading on this site from others, development seems to be lacking at all levels and clubs unless you have a strong serious coach and do weekly outside private trainings or be on a DA team.  I have not seen or experienced any flow down of training standards from ECNL or Club to coaches.
> 
> Thanks again for all the feedback.


Most clubs do not have a unified training program that flows down to the lower level and those that think they do, rarely enforce it.  The reason for this is simple, there is no financial benefit to the club.  Rather than have a redid structure 

Don't get confused by league competitiveness and team competitiveness.  There are a few really good DPL teams and many not-so-good DPL teams.  The GDA and DPL are brand spanking new.  The DPL is a fine concept, but SCDSL is answering the challenge with their "Discovery League" bracket and USYS has the National League, which may offer more competitive matches than the DPL.

You have to ask your self this: How many legitimate "college showcase" events (60+ college coaches with printed/pdf player bios for the coaches) will my daughter's DPL team attend?  It will likely be a little less than a typical ECNL/GDA team and on par with most Flight 1 and Premier level teams.  In addition, some of these DPL team will also participate in USYS' National League, along side the the F1 and Premier teams.

If the ECNL loses a foothold in SoCal then DPL may replace it, but it definitely not going to happen for many years.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Apr 18, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> I agree with what you shared though I am just now learning what DPL is all about and it’s level of competitiveness.  I’m not sure DPL will be lesser than ECNL next year considering the clubs (ours included) that just announced moving girls ECNL program to DPL, alongside the DA program.
> 
> From my experience and what I am reading on this site from others, development seems to be lacking at all levels and clubs unless you have a strong serious coach and do weekly outside private trainings or be on a DA team.  I have not seen or experienced any flow down of training standards from ECNL or Club to coaches.
> 
> Thanks again for all the feedback.


Which club?


----------



## MWN (Apr 18, 2018)

MWN said:


> ...Rather than have a redid structure ...


I have no idea what that was supposed to say, ignore it.


----------



## Info (Apr 18, 2018)

No one is moving ECNL to DPL. Please stop spreading this. Any new DPL club like West Coast is losing ECNL. So they will just be DA.


----------



## Monkey (Apr 18, 2018)

Info said:


> No one is moving ECNL to DPL. Please stop spreading this. Any new DPL club like West Coast is losing ECNL. So they will just be DA.


Your phrase “ any new DPL club like West Coast” has this been verified?  If West Coasf does lose ECNL I assume Surf will also lose ECNL.  But I just don’t see them joining in on this DPL wannabe league.  I think it waters down the Surf brand and they don’t need more bells and whistles to attract players that hope
to break onto the DA team.


----------



## timbuck (Apr 18, 2018)

Monkey said:


> Your phrase “ any new DPL club like West Coast” has this been verified?  If West Coasf does lose ECNL I assume Surf will also lose ECNL.  But I just don’t see them joining in on this DPL wannabe league.  I think it waters down the Surf brand and they don’t need more bells and whistles to attract players that hope
> to break onto the DA team.


Now that SCDSL is adding the “Discovery” bracket, will DPL even be necessary?


----------



## Night Owl (Apr 18, 2018)

Maybe SYL?


----------



## Fact (Apr 18, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Now that SCDSL is adding the “Discovery” bracket, will DPL even be necessary?


While DPL was never “necessary” great point about SCDSL.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Apr 18, 2018)

Fact said:


> While DPL was never “necessary” great point about SCDSL.


SCDSL was also never necessary.  Same goes for the new Discovery bracket.


----------



## Slammerdad (Apr 19, 2018)

West Coast 03 (Cucuk) who gravitated to the Surf is moving from ECNL to DPL for 2018/2019.  That is what I have been told


----------



## Josep (Apr 19, 2018)

I think there should be some clarifications.  

I believe the 03s will have their own Pilot league within DA.   

While it is also called DPL, this is not the same as the DA2.   That allows kids to Play HS. 

The DPL, in which the Pilot 03s will play in, will be the exact same academy schedule and rules and No HS is allowed.


----------



## JoeZ (Apr 19, 2018)

Slammerdad said:


> West Coast 03 (Cucuk) who gravitated to the Surf is moving from ECNL to DPL for 2018/2019.  That is what I have been told


It would not make sense or even feasible for a single team within a club that leaves ECNL to DPL to be more aligned with USSF and DA.  Anyone mentioning one team to you would be giving you a small piece of the information. Don’t have all the facts so don’t want to name specific clubs however hearing it’s more than one club making the change.


----------



## JoeZ (Apr 19, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> It would not make sense or even feasible for a single team within a club that leaves ECNL to DPL to be more aligned with USSF and DA.  Anyone mentioning one team to you would be giving you a small piece of the information. Don’t have all the facts so don’t want to name specific clubs however hearing it’s more than one club making the change.


Sorry for typo: I meant to say: It would not make sense or even feasible for a single team within a club to leave ECNL to DPL to be more aligned with USSF and DA.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Apr 19, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> Sorry for typo: I meant to say: It would not make sense or even feasible for a single team within a club to leave ECNL to DPL to be more aligned with USSF and DA.


Unless said Club looses their ECNL status.


----------



## SocalPapa (Apr 19, 2018)

TW's '02 OC LA Galaxy team now appears both in Gotsoccer and YSR with DPL in its name.  Is DPL opening up to non-DA clubs (or at least DA affiliate clubs)?


----------



## sdklutz (Apr 19, 2018)

I have a hard time believing that the various egos that run Club soccer would ultimately leave ECNL for a league (DA2) that was created by the Carlsbad mafia.


----------



## zags77 (Apr 20, 2018)

Blues, Surf SD and Surf OC jumping into DPL is telling though...........

http://dpleague.org/


----------



## sdklutz (Apr 20, 2018)

zags77 said:


> Blues, Surf SD and Surf OC jumping into DPL is telling though...........
> 
> http://dpleague.org/


Interesting, maybe the past can be forgotten and all of these Clubs can get along.


----------



## Slammerdad (Apr 20, 2018)

zags77 said:


> Blues, Surf SD and Surf OC jumping into DPL is telling though...........
> 
> http://dpleague.org/


As I stated (someone disagreed with my post) that WC/Galaxy Cucuk is jumping to DPL from ECNL so it IS happening (along with Blues and possibly more).  I make the point because it appears that those clubs value the idea of being a "DA light" as opposed to a completely different league in ECNL.   I am not bashing ECNL and in fact thing it has some talent better than DA talent. What is more interesting is that many girls who played ECNL played high school last year. I wonder if their parents (or the players themselves) know that they will have to conform to the same no high school soccer rules as DA.


----------



## shales1002 (Apr 20, 2018)

zags77 said:


> Blues, Surf SD and Surf OC jumping into DPL is telling though...........
> 
> http://dpleague.org/


What is so telling? It's just another league created under USYS and NOT USSF. Please explain.


----------



## 3JMommy (Apr 20, 2018)

Josep said:


> I think there should be some clarifications.
> 
> I believe the 03s will have their own Pilot league within DA.
> 
> ...


What about coach licensing for this? Is an "A" License still required for DPL?


----------



## MWN (Apr 20, 2018)

zags77 said:


> Blues, Surf SD and Surf OC jumping into DPL is telling though...........
> 
> http://dpleague.org/


It doesn't really tell much, other than the Girls DA programs want to put their "B" teams in a regional "league of their own," which smartly is sanctioned by USYS/CalSouth.  I say "smartly" because these DPL teams have the ability to participate in all of USYS and Cal South's programs (i.e. National League, CRL, State/National Cup, etc.).   I can also appreciate the the fact that there is so much talent in SoCal, that they can get the same level of games without messing with ECNL's travel requirements.  The fact that many "DPL" teams will also play in the CRL and a few in USYS's National League is more telling.



3JMommy said:


> What about coach licensing for this? Is an "A" License still required for DPL?


The DPL is not the USSF Development Academy.  Its simply a Non-DA team within a club that wants to put their higher level girls on a team that will compete against other "B" teams or "Academy II" teams.  This league is sanctioned by Cal South, which doesn't have coaching license restriction beyond an "E License" or now "GrassRoots 11v11."

For the record, in the DA the "A License" is only required for the Academy Director, the coaches are supposed to have "B Licenses"


----------



## Slammerdad (Apr 20, 2018)

Another question is will the DPL teams  be club supported in the same financial level as their respective DA teams?  Or what if they do not have a DA team?


----------



## Runuts (Apr 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> It doesn't really tell much, other than the Girls DA programs want to put their "B" teams in a regional "league of their own," which smartly is sanctioned by USYS/CalSouth.  I say "smartly" because these DPL teams have the ability to participate in all of USYS and Cal South's programs (i.e. National League, CRL, State/National Cup, etc.).   I can also appreciate the the fact that there is so much talent in SoCal, that they can get the same level of games without messing with ECNL's travel requirements.  The fact that many "DPL" teams will also play in the CRL and a few in USYS's National League is more telling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But most still use lower license coaches but call them apprentice.


----------



## MWN (Apr 20, 2018)

Slammerdad said:


> Another question is will the DPL teams  be club supported in the same financial level as their respective DA teams?  Or what if they do not have a DA team?


I thought we covered this.  The DPL is restricted to clubs that have USSDA Girls Academies.  A club cannot have a team play in the DPL, unless it has a DA team.  If you look at the SD Galaxy they charge more for the DPL, but less than the same age group DA.  See below.

2000 Academy USSDA $2,850
2000 Academy II/Elite SCDSL/DPL $2,265
2000 Premier/Premier II SDDA $1,840
2000 Gold/White SDDA/PSL $1,640
https://lagalaxysd.com/competitive/fees/

Now, the DPL makes perfect sense because the level of play for the USSDA (at this time) is equal to or slightly below the level of play for the ECNL.  Its still a new league.  See this thread:
http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/stat-analysis-most-girls-da-clubs-without-prior-ecnl-experience-struggling.4959/

While a club is free to support their DPL team at whatever level they deem appropriate, in all likelihood you will not see the same "financial level" of support between the DPL and DA teams.  For example, DA requires more travel.


----------



## MWN (Apr 20, 2018)

Runuts said:


> But most still use lower license coaches but call them apprentice.


Given the newness of the league, all clubs have time to get their coaches up to the appropriate license.  As long as those apprentice coaches are enrolled in the appropriate license courses AND making progress toward their eventual B, more power too them.  On the boys side, there are much more stricter.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Apr 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> I thought we covered this.  The DPL is restricted to clubs that have USSDA Girls Academies.  A club cannot have a team play in the DPL, unless it has a DA team.  If you look at the SD Galaxy they charge more for the DPL, but less than the same age group DA.  See below.
> 
> 2000 Academy USSDA $2,850
> 2000 Academy II/Elite SCDSL/DPL $2,265
> ...


I wouldn't assume that DPL is restricted to clubs that have DA.  That is how they have chosen to operate so far but nothing is preventing them from expanding.  Maybe they could not have other 03"s guest at the DA Showcases but they are a league under Cal South just like any other league.


----------



## MWN (Apr 20, 2018)

Just so we are clear on the current situation:

USSDA Girls Teams in Southwest Conference

Albion SC
Beach Futbol Club
Eagles Soccer Club
LA Galaxy
LA Galaxy San Diego
LAFC Slammers
Legends FC
Los Angeles Premier Futbol Club
Pateadores
Real So Cal
*San Diego Surf*
SC del Sol
*So Cal Blues Soccer Club*
*West Coast Futbol Club*
ECNL Girls Teams in Southwest Conference

Arsenal FC
Del Mar Sharks
Heat FC
*San Diego Surf*
Sereno Soccer Club
Slammers FC
*So Cal Blues SC*
Strikers FC
*West Coast FC*
Of all the teams, 3 clubs have teams in both leagues.  It makes perfect sense for these clubs to hedge their bets in year 1 and 2, and then "pick one" league once they are confident of the path, unless their parent/customers are demanding both (unlikely).  Clearly the Girls DA program has positioned itself as the dominant league in just 1 year with 14 good clubs.  Its now ECNL's move and they will need to add some clubs to bolster the ranks.  That said, 9 clubs consistent with the number of clubs in most other ECNL conferences (8-10).  So, we should expect some attrition as things settle and also some new clubs being added to the ECNL mix as clubs "pick one."  For any club, this should be purely customer driven.


----------



## pulguita (Apr 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> Just so we are clear on the current situation:
> 
> USSDA Girls Teams in Southwest Conference
> 
> ...


Bottom line there is not enough talent in SoCal to support all these teams.  Never was never will be.  When their was ECNL the second tier teams were garbage.  There was not even enough to fill a solid 18 on the 8 ECNL teams at each age group back in the day.  Hence discovery players.  There were isolated teams that were not ECNL at certain age groups that could beat any ECNL team on any given day.  Personally ECNL pissed me off in the day.  I did not like the fact that those that got in were chosen not earned.  Their coaching sucked but they were "in".


----------



## Pitch pop (Apr 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> Just so we are clear on the current situation:
> 
> USSDA Girls Teams in Southwest Conference
> 
> ...


Should be interesting.... I agree ECNL needs to make a move. It seems like DA has made Socal its hub. Given the dropping of the DA by three of the countries largest clubs this week, socal seems to be trending in a different direction. The concern with that is that the DA has over saturated the market here. This  seems kind of contrary to what it was designed for. It’s difficult to have the best play against the best when they are spread over 14 teams. You can see this illustrated in the lopsided standings in DA. 

I still think the X factor for ECNL will be the high school option. I have heard of quite a few girls reconsidering their choices to play DA and forgo high school sports, after experiencing some buyers remorse and ending up on a DA team that has struggled all season. Many don’t like the rules associated with DA either now that they have experienced them first hand.


----------



## pulguita (Apr 20, 2018)

pulguita said:


> Bottom line there is not enough talent in SoCal to support all these teams.  Never was never will be.  When their was ECNL the second tier teams were garbage.  There was not even enough to fill a solid 18 on the 8 ECNL teams at each age group back in the day.  Hence discovery players.  There were isolated teams that were not ECNL at certain age groups that could beat any ECNL team on any given day.  Personally ECNL pissed me off in the day.  I did not like the fact that those that got in were chosen not earned.  Their coaching sucked but they were "in".


To continue:  The DA is a joke run by clowns for incomprehensible reasons.  For the ECNL teams they took the same coaches.  Some of the "outside clubs" should have been ECNL anyhow.  Flush DA.  Take the 13 SoCal clubs and have them be ECNL.  Let the Arizona and Nevada teams go to some other division.  Quit dicking around and get it done.  There is no soccer career for women.  $35000 a year and living with 4 teammates to pay the rent is not a career.  It is a hobby.  ECNL got girls to college - leave it at that.  The top 1% will be the top 1% regardless.  Let the USWNT find them.


----------



## shales1002 (Apr 20, 2018)

pulguita said:


> To continue:  The DA is a joke run by clowns for incomprehensible reasons.  For the ECNL teams they took the same coaches.  Some of the "outside clubs" should have been ECNL anyhow.  Flush DA.  Take the 13 SoCal clubs and have them be ECNL.  Let the Arizona and Nevada teams go to some other division.  Quit dicking around and get it done.  There is no soccer career for women.  $35000 a year and living with 4 teammates to pay the rent is not a career.  It is a hobby.  ECNL got girls to college - leave it at that.  The top 1% will be the top 1% regardless.  Let the USWNT find them.


You had me pumped up until you said get rid of NV and AZ.


----------



## outside! (Apr 20, 2018)

shales1002 said:


> You had me pumped up until you said get rid of NV and AZ.


Understandable, but the facts are that there is a large enough population in SoCal that there is not real need for SoCal teams to travel to NV or AZ for league games.


----------



## shales1002 (Apr 20, 2018)

outside! said:


> Understandable, but the facts are that there is a large enough population in SoCal that there is not real need for SoCal teams to travel to NV or AZ for league games.


It literally ONE or TWO travels to our gazillion.   But hey, it's not easy.


----------



## MWN (Apr 20, 2018)

pulguita said:


> To continue:  The DA is a joke run by clowns for incomprehensible reasons.  For the ECNL teams they took the same coaches.  Some of the "outside clubs" should have been ECNL anyhow.  Flush DA.  Take the 13 SoCal clubs and have them be ECNL.  Let the Arizona and Nevada teams go to some other division.  Quit dicking around and get it done.  There is no soccer career for women.  $35000 a year and living with 4 teammates to pay the rent is not a career.  It is a hobby.  ECNL got girls to college - leave it at that.  The top 1% will be the top 1% regardless.  Let the USWNT find them.


I especially agree with this statement, which needs to be the lens that every single girl playing soccer must fundamentally understand:



pulguita said:


> *There is no soccer career for women*.  $35000 a year and living with 4 teammates to pay the rent is not a career.  *It is a hobby*.  ECNL got girls to college - leave it at that.  The top 1% will be the top 1% regardless.  Let the USWNT find them.


The reality is that the in thd 200+ years of this country, the current 324 Million residents of the U.S. have never supported professional women's sports leagues.  The WNBA (insolvent, but for support from the NBA), the NWHL (insolvent, but for support from the NHL), the NWSL (insolvent, but for support from the MLS and USSF), LPB (baseball, folded in 1998), the list goes on and on.  The only sports where a woman can have a legitimate career are those where you don't have teammates, Golf, Tennis, UFC, stock car racing (I know there is a team, but in name only).

Of the top 100 athletes in the world, there is only 1 woman (Serena Williams) [http://time.com/money/4810637/female-highest-paid-athletes/]

What many lose sight of is that at the youth level, sports has numerous benefits for young people and helps them grow and mature into healthy productive adults.  There is societal value and we should encourage all of our youth, boys and girls, to play sports later in their adult life through recreational amateur leagues.  BUT and this is a huge BUT ... *at the professional level sports is pure entertainment*.  It has no benefit to society other than for its entertainment value, which unto itself has some intrinsic value.  Professional athletes are on the same level of actors, comedians, youtube stars, dancer, strippers, artist and musicians.  They don't cure cancer, they don't discover the next great scientific advancement, they don't invent a better way to feed the hungry or do anything else but entertain.   When a boys U15 ODP team can whip our Woman's National Team by 6+ points, it should be obvious to all (including the USSF) that soccer for teenage women is purely a means to stay healthy and possibly get some college paid for.  That is it.  The ECNL gets it.  The Girls DA remains confused as to what their mission statement should be.

All we have to do is look at the USSDA "mission," which is nothing more than some platitudes and an admission that it only wants to control (i.e. "set the standard") development for the international game:



> What is the Development Academy Program?
> 
> Following a comprehensive review of elite player development in the United States and around the world, U.S. Soccer created the Development Academy in 2007. The Academy Program's philosophy is based on increased training, less total games, and more meaningful games *using international rules of competition*.
> 
> ...


There there you have it.  Build players for the "international game" and control their training.  Which is absolutely, positively what the USSF should be be doing.

If one were to rewrite the mission statements of the DA for the girls and boys programs, this is what they should be:

*Boys*: "The mission of the Boys USSDA program is to create a national database of elite soccer players, so we can identify those athletes early, help them avoid college where they will lose 4 years of development, and figure out a way to get them into professional international leagues at age 17-19 (but if we can't, then the MLS will do) in order to have a pool of elite US professional players good enough to form a team that will win the world cup and/or the Olympics."

*Girls*: "The mission of the Girls USSDA program is to foster as many opportunities for girls to attend college using soccer in order to get high enough paying jobs to continue playing soccer for the semi-pro woman's league in order for the USSF to put together a good enough team every few years to win the world cup and/or the Olympics."​In each case, the mission of US Soccer misses the ultimate point.  Top level professional athletes (men and women) don't reach their peak until their late 20's early 30's.  Its roughly 27 years of age for soccer players, men and women.  By they time these athletes are ready for the National Team, they have over 4-6 years of Non-DA development under their belt.  Why US Soccer is dicking around with kids is beyond me.  Its resources need to be put into programs that impact the "college" and post college age kids.  This is where its pool of National team players will come from.  If the MLS wants to form an academy, fine, let them.  But our Federation is wasting its money.  99.9% of these kids won't sign a professional contract.  The fact that the USSDA has the audacity to tell these kids to ignore the social aspect of H.S. sports is insane.

The goal of boys and girls at an elite level should be college, college, college.  If an athlete can get a Generation Adidas deal, then great, but let the kids be kids, let them experience some of the best aspect of H.S., the social benefits of being on a team with their classmates, just let them be student-athletes.  The ECNL gets it, USSF doesn't (especially on the girls side).  For this reason, the ECNL isn't going anywhere.

To answer the title question of this thread: *"In SoCal what’s it going to be DA/DPL or ECNL?"*

Its going to be both.  DA for those parents that buy the sales pitch the DA is selling.  ECNL for those parents that are looking for a more balance path.  In the end, both programs will get their girls playing against top competition.  Both programs will get sufficient exposure for the top athletes to get some college money.  As far as DPL goes, fine, another league that won't get as much exposure as DA or ECNL.  If it works for your daughter, that is all that matters.


----------



## Dos Equis (Apr 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> I especially agree with this statement, which needs to be the lens that every single girl playing soccer must fundamentally understand:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome.  Just Awesome. 

Someone get a slab of granite and a chisel and save this one for posterity.


----------



## outside! (Apr 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> The reality is that the in thd 200+ years of this country, the current 324 Million residents of the U.S. have never supported professional women's sports leagues.  ...
> Of the top 100 athletes in the world, there is only 1 woman (Serena Williams) [http://time.com/money/4810637/female-highest-paid-athletes/]


Wow, starting off with misleading numbers. How many women (or insert any minority) were there in the top 100 athletes 10 years ago, or 20, 30, 50, 100 years ago? When it comes to female/minority representation in statistics, predicting the future based solely on the way things have always been rarely works. The times they are a changing. There are now 2 American women that have passed up college scholarships to play professional soccer. Five years ago there were none. While we should definitely educate young women about the challenges involved and that the deck is stacked against them, that does not mean there will never be opportunities for them. You are correct that for most female athletes, for now, college is the best path forward. But as Ms. Horan and Pugh have shown, there may be other options. Repeating the blurb about 15 year old boys beating the WNT merely restates the fact that men and women are different. Regarding the whole ECNL/GDA/DPL/(insert acronym here) mess, the grown ups need to act like grown ups and compromise and the parents and players need to find the best team/coach/club that meets their individual geographical/budget/playing level needs in the meantime. The people in the next county are not firing artillery at us and life is good.


----------



## pulguita (Apr 20, 2018)

outside! said:


> Wow, starting off with misleading numbers. How many women (or insert any minority) were there in the top 100 athletes 10 years ago, or 20, 30, 50, 100 years ago? When it comes to female/minority representation in statistics, predicting the future based solely on the way things have always been rarely works. The times they are a changing. There are now 2 American women that have passed up college scholarships to play professional soccer. Five years ago there were none. While we should definitely educate young women about the challenges involved and that the deck is stacked against them, that does not mean there will never be opportunities for them. You are correct that for most female athletes, for now, college is the best path forward. But as Ms. Horan and Pugh have shown, there may be other options. Repeating the blurb about 15 year old boys beating the WNT merely restates the fact that men and women are different. Regarding the whole ECNL/GDA/DPL/(insert acronym here) mess, the grown ups need to act like grown ups and compromise and the parents and players need to find the best team/coach/club that meets their individual geographical/budget/playing level needs in the meantime. The people in the next county are not firing artillery at us and life is good.


Sorry Lindsay Who?  She already left the club that enticed her to skip college and probably has very little marketability in the upcoming years cause US soccer has done nothing for her.  Mal has been the upcoming face for US Soccer and they have been behind her.  How long do you think that will last?  How long do you think the NWSL will last?  My dd watches soccer all the time - the men and the best club teams in the world.  Not the MLS and certainly not the NWSL.  She can watch her brother's above average U16 team play and will watch better soccer than any NWSL team can provide.  So if my dd chooses not to watch the NWSL and most of her D1 teammates don't watch ANY soccer (pretty typical for the US female player) who is NWSL marketing to?  11 year old girls that don't know any better?  I certainly am not going to spend 2 hours on Saturday watching an entertainment product that is not very entertaining.  How long will it last.  My dd and her dbl major and double minor from a very well known SoCal school  will out earn all of them in the next 10 years.  If she plays a little pro prior to entering a career it will certainly be a "hobby".  Lindsay and Mal will cease to be soccer players one day (may happen sooner than later) and then they will have zip to fall back on.  Different story if your are a pro athlete in one of the big 4 where 3-5 years could set you up for life if you are smart.


----------



## Real Deal (Apr 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> I especially agree with this statement, which needs to be the lens that every single girl playing soccer must fundamentally understand:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


^Holy smokes, enough already!  You don't like DA, we get it.  So just have your kid go play on an ECNL team!

The GDA showcases were loaded with college scouts, and US scouts as well as an added bonus.  We will choose to let our daughters have their outlandish dreams... and play in college too.


----------



## MWN (Apr 20, 2018)

outside! said:


> Wow, starting off with misleading numbers. How many women (or insert any minority) were there in the top 100 athletes 10 years ago, or 20, 30, 50, 100 years ago? When it comes to female/minority representation in statistics, predicting the future based solely on the way things have always been rarely works. The times they are a changing. There are now 2 American women that have passed up college scholarships to play professional soccer. Five years ago there were none. While we should definitely educate young women about the challenges involved and that the deck is stacked against them, that does not mean there will never be opportunities for them. You are correct that for most female athletes, for now, college is the best path forward. But as Ms. Horan and Pugh have shown, there may be other options. Repeating the blurb about 15 year old boys beating the WNT merely restates the fact that men and women are different. Regarding the whole ECNL/GDA/DPL/(insert acronym here) mess, the grown ups need to act like grown ups and compromise and the parents and players need to find the best team/coach/club that meets their individual geographical/budget/playing level needs in the meantime. The people in the next county are not firing artillery at us and life is good.


@outside!, help me understand how my numbers are misleading.

I'm not trying to be an advocate or apologist for the current situation, just provide a dose of reality.  Based on your comment, it appears we are at least in 80% agreement.  If you have followed my brilliant writings, editorials and prognostications on this forum you will appreciate that I'm a strong advocate of youth sports.  Its fun.  I love watching my boy play.  That said, its a horrible investment strategy from a career stand point, but when the cost of college is $100k over 4 years at a Cal State, spending no more that 10k on the chance of knocking 30k to 60k off that total may be warranted if your kid is in the top 30% of a top 10% club.  The math makes the bet acceptable.

My point is we (you, me and the Federation) can't be Pollyanna'ish about this, we have to realistically understand what "woman's team sports" represents as a profession now and in the near future (let's say 20 years).  Our current crop of daughters need to be given a realistic assessment of the situation.  We can't BS them, its not fair ... brutal honesty.   There is nothing stopping us from reevaluating the landscape in the next generation, but since the dawn and time through 2018, there is no "woman's team sports" league that has successfully thrived.  The reason for this is sports is entertainment.  The people that watch team sports (i.e. those not playing), watch for the pure enjoyment.  They want to watch the best examples of that entertainment.   Man or woman doesn't matter when National Pride is on the line.  This is why the Olympics work, regardless of gender.  Why the World Cup works.  Having National Pride is fun.

But when it comes to the best soccer athletes, the MLS doesn't get nearly as many views because the talent is lacking, the players suck.  A single Premiere League game will get more TV views than 4 MLS games combined (http://worldsoccertalk.com/2017/08/30/two-premier-league-matches-break-one-million-viewers-us-tv/).  If the MLS can't cut it in the USA, how on earth do we expect the NWSL to make inroads?

Let's stop B.S.'ing our daughters.  The average salary of a Premier League soccer player is $3.7M dollars, the minimum salary of an MLS player is $60k (with the average being $316,777), the minimum salary of a NWSL player is $15k and its capped at 45k.  The MLS and NWSL are hobbies (as @pulguita wrote) and these women only get paid because its being subsidized.  I just can't see the American population starting to watch any woman's league in such numbers that would allow it to be financially viable.  I'm sorry, but I simply disagree with the USSDA's path and think they are doing a tremendous disservice to our young women by focusing on the wrong thing.  The USSDA should be doing everything in its power to help elevate play in order to push our girls towards college with the top 1% moving on to some sort of subsidized high level soccer program while the USSF chases the Woman's world cup prize.


----------



## outside! (Apr 20, 2018)

pulguita said:


> Sorry Lindsay Who?  She already left the club that enticed her to skip college and probably has very little marketability in the upcoming years cause US soccer has done nothing for her.  Mal has been the upcoming face for US Soccer and they have been behind her.  How long do you think that will last?  How long do you think the NWSL will last?  My dd watches soccer all the time - the men and the best club teams in the world.  Not the MLS and certainly not the NWSL.  She can watch her brother's above average U16 team play and will watch better soccer than any NWSL team can provide.  So if my dd chooses not to watch the NWSL and most of her D1 teammates don't watch ANY soccer (pretty typical for the US female player) who is NWSL marketing to?  11 year old girls that don't know any better?  I certainly am not going to spend 2 hours on Saturday watching an entertainment product that is not very entertaining.  How long will it last.  My dd and her dbl major and double minor from a very well known SoCal school  will out earn all of them in the next 10 years.  If she plays a little pro prior to entering a career it will certainly be a "hobby".  Lindsay and Mal will cease to be soccer players one day (may happen sooner than later) and then they will have zip to fall back on.  Different story if your are a pro athlete in one of the big 4 where 3-5 years could set you up for life if you are smart.


With your feelings about women's soccer, I am surprised you manage to force yourself to watch your daughter's games. Since you never watch women's soccer, how would you have any idea how Lindsay Horan is playing? Men and women are different, but I and many others still find women's soccer to be entertaining.


----------



## pulguita (Apr 20, 2018)

outside! said:


> With your feelings about women's soccer, I am surprised you manage to force yourself to watch your daughter's games. Since you never watch women's soccer, how would you have any idea how Lindsay Horan is playing? Men and women are different, but I and many others still find women's soccer to be entertaining.


I watch them because she is playing.  I have always watched them.  With no dog in the fight 
Thorns are playing the Spirit and Stoke is playing West Ham ( I admit I don't watch the EPL much I am a LaLiga snob as is my kid and she plays like one), who are you watching?


----------



## outside! (Apr 20, 2018)

I watch Champions League, EPL, WNT, some WPSL, and the occasional MLS game. I also watch women's college soccer when I can. I don't get La Liga on our cable package or I would watch that as well. Hell, I can have fun watching U10 bronze games. Did you at least watch the NCAA women's final?


----------



## pulguita (Apr 20, 2018)

outside! said:


> I watch Champions League, EPL, WNT, some WPSL, and the occasional MLS game. I also watch women's college soccer when I can. I don't get La Liga on our cable package or I would watch that as well. Hell, I can have fun watching U10 bronze games. Did you at least watch the NCAA women's final?


So its Saturday afternoon no one is home but you, and your kid is not playing, you would actually watch a WNT, NWSL, WPSL or womens college game for a couple of hours?  You certainly have a much higher threshold of pain than I do.  I can remember vividly playing in a U10 tourny in Irvine during the 2007 WWC and talking to a couple coaches and one starts bagging on the womens game.  I felt really insulted by some of his comments at the time.  11 years later, ODP Championships, USYS National Championships, National Team callups, D1 Natty.  Everything he said was true 11 years later.  I just choose to not be pained anymore.  And yes I am often pained watching, usually along with many of the coaches in SoCal that I respect, my daughter's college team play AND the teams they are playing.  I must say spring games have me pleasantly surprised with our play and it might be really fun this fall.


----------



## Fact (Apr 20, 2018)

zags77 said:


> Blues, Surf SD and Surf OC jumping into DPL is telling though...........
> 
> http://dpleague.org/


Ok now that I have had time to read the Pilot 03 DPL press release I understand what is going on.
1. The Frontier Division 03 Pilot is a US Soccer Development Academy approved program.
2. The Socal 03 Pilot is the creation of DPL tracksuit wearing used car salesmen.
3. The Socal 03 Pilot is NOT sanctioned by the US Soccer Development Academy.
4. The reason they state that the best 03s will play on the banded 02/03 teams is because what family in the right mind would want their child to play in DPL 03 with similar restrictions and costs as DA when they are good enough to make the banded team.
5. I believe they have the same no high school restriction and other similarities as DA teams solely to confuse families into believing their child is in a real DA pilot program.
6. Other than 4 days of practice like DA teams and no high school, isn’t this exactly like this years DPL teams?
7. DPL promises that the 03 Pilot teams will participate in the same showcases as the DA teams to play against the Frontier 03 Pilot teams.  I wonder if this is really true like when the claimed DA 2 was part of DA?  If DA wanted a 03 Pilot program in SoCal they would have created one. To me it is more likely that DPL will try to find a venue near DA showcases and hope coaches will show up.  However for Surf, OC Surf and Blues which will still have ECNL teams, these DPL 03 Pilot teams will be their “C” teams.  So this is just a lot of marketing bull by the track suit wearing used car salesmen.  And it will keep 03s that don’t make the 02/03 banded team from leaving to find an ECNL team for this year; so I am not sure what Surf, Blues and OC Surf get out of this.


----------



## PossessionSoccer (Apr 20, 2018)

pulguita said:


> So its Saturday afternoon no one is home but you, and your kid is not playing, you would actually watch a WNT, NWSL, WPSL or womens college game for a couple of hours?  You certainly have a much higher threshold of pain than I do.  I can remember vividly playing in a U10 tourny in Irvine during the 2007 WWC and talking to a couple coaches and one starts bagging on the womens game.  I felt really insulted by some of his comments at the time.  11 years later, ODP Championships, USYS National Championships, National Team callups, D1 Natty.  Everything he said was true 11 years later.  I just choose to not be pained anymore.  And yes I am often pained watching, usually along with many of the coaches in SoCal that I respect, my daughter's college team play AND the teams they are playing.  I must say spring games have me pleasantly surprised with our play and it might be really fun this fall.


I’ll admit, I am a La Liga snob too, but I really enjoy watching Stanford Women play as well.  A couple of their players came from that De Anza Force G98 team.  They played great soccer.  You can YouTube their top plays.  I would have paid to watch them play before paying to watch LA Galaxy.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Apr 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> Ok now that I have had time to read the Pilot 03 DPL press release I understand what is going on.
> 1. The Frontier Division 03 Pilot is a US Soccer Development Academy approved program.
> 2. The Socal 03 Pilot is the creation of DPL tracksuit wearing used car salesmen.
> 3. The Socal 03 Pilot is NOT sanctioned by the US Soccer Development Academy.
> ...


It would ironic that your kids end up playing DPL.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Apr 21, 2018)

MWN said:


> @outside!
> Let's stop B.S.'ing our daughters.  The average salary of a Premier League soccer player is $3.7M dollars, the minimum salary of an MLS player is $60k (with the average being $316,777), the minimum salary of a NWSL player is $15k and its capped at 45k.  The MLS and NWSL are hobbies (as @pulguita wrote) and these women only get paid because its being subsidized.  I just can't see the American population starting to watch any woman's league in such numbers that would allow it to be financially viable.  I'm sorry, but I simply disagree with the USSDA's path and think they are doing a tremendous disservice to our young women by focusing on the wrong thing.  The USSDA should be doing everything in its power to help elevate play in order to push our girls towards college with the top 1% moving on to some sort of subsidized high level soccer program while the USSF chases the Woman's world cup prize.


My DD is still many many years away from college, but I found the debate on this thread quite telling.  There seems to be a lot more changes and contentions on the girls' side.  I think that's a direct result from the lack of true "pathway" for girls compared to boys, so the federation/league/clubs have to keep changing their marketing strategy to attract/retain customers.


----------



## SocalPapa (Apr 21, 2018)

Fact said:


> However for Surf, OC Surf and Blues which will still have ECNL teams, these DPL 03 Pilot teams will be their “C” teams.  So this is just a lot of marketing bull by the track suit wearing used car salesmen.


Saying it's a "C" team doesn't tell you the whole story.  For example, if you look at Blues: 

1) Their current 2003 GDA team is the #1 team in the SW division (and, per my earlier RPI calc, the #3 GDA team in the country).
2) AR just joined Blues and another poster said the players from his current Strikers team (the #1 2003 ECNL team in SW) may follow him
3) Blues' current 01/02 GDA team has 14 2002 players on it
4) Blues has an existing 2003 ECNL team

So it appears they'll have 1 full GDA roster and up to 2 full ECNL rosters, including some of the best 2003 players in the country, competing for spots on a single ECNL roster plus perhaps a limited number of roster spots on the GDA 02/03 team.  (In other words they've got 3 high-level 2003 rosters that will be cut down to 2-1/2 rosters or so, even including the pilot team.)  So I suspect whatever pilot team Blues ends up with ("C" team or not), it will be competitive with pretty much any club's A team, DA and ECNL included.


----------



## Fact (Apr 21, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> It would ironic that your kids end up playing DPL.


That would be ironic given that my kids are older.


----------



## Fact (Apr 21, 2018)

SocalPapa said:


> Saying it's a "C" team doesn't tell you the whole story.  For example, if you look at Blues:
> 
> 1) Their current 2003 GDA team is the #1 team in the SW division (and, per my earlier RPI calc, the #3 GDA team in the country).
> 2) AR just joined Blues and another poster said the players from his current Strikers team (the #1 2003 ECNL team in SW) may follow him
> ...


I hear you but Blues has always been the exception not the rule.  However I do wonder how many parents are going to be satisfied with their dd on the 3rd team.  I hope they keep their egos in check.


----------



## Fact (Apr 21, 2018)

@Lambchop and @Simi why don’t you explain what information I have is not correct?  Whoever claimed they DA was going to have a 03 Pilot program was spreading fake news.


----------



## G03_SD (Apr 21, 2018)

I'm curious what are the thoughts of GDA 03 players who are starters now.  Are you going to put your players in 02/03 or opt for 03 DA/DPL pilot team?


----------



## Fact (Apr 21, 2018)

G03_SD said:


> I'm curious what are the thoughts of GDA 03 players who are starters now.  Are you going to put your players in 02/03 or opt for 03 DA/DPL pilot team?


It is NOT a DA Pilot!!!!   
It is a DPL creation to keep 03 players that don’t make the 02/03
DA team instead of going to ECNL teams.  
i.e. Fake News/used car salesmen tactics

I wonder if US Soccer knows they are marketing this?


----------



## MWN (Apr 21, 2018)

G03_SD said:


> I'm curious what are the thoughts of GDA 03 players who are starters now.  Are you going to put your players in 02/03 or opt for 03 DA/DPL pilot team?


Typically, in the composite years the youngers that can start will play on the composite team. The youngers that are not ready for the starting lineup, will be delegated to a team that will compete at an appropriate level in one of the leagues. The boys will go to a coast Premier level or SCDSL flight 1 champions, based on where they're base Club typically plays. With the girls, it's likely those clubs will put their youngers that don't make the academy composite team on to a team that plays in the DPL or will do something similar to what the boys do.


----------



## Desert Hound (Apr 21, 2018)

Fact said:


> It is NOT a DA Pilot!!!!
> It is a DPL creation to keep 03 players that don’t make the 02/03
> DA team instead of going to ECNL teams.
> i.e. Fake News/used car salesmen tactics
> ...


It would seem US Soccer has to be involved. 

If we assume the press release from the DPL is correct...those 03 DPL teams will get to play as guest teams in some DA showcases. You can't just add teams to a showcase run by US Soccer unless you have their blessing.


----------



## Fact (Apr 21, 2018)

Desert Hound said:


> It would seem US Soccer has to be involved.
> 
> If we assume the press release from the DPL is correct...those 03 DPL teams will get to play as guest teams in some DA showcases. You can't just add teams to a showcase run by US Soccer unless you have their blessing.


Have you heard of DA 2 a where the tracksuit wearing used car salesmen promised very similar features only to have US Soccer tell them NOT to use the DA name.

Unless there is a press release from US Soccer, this is just spin.

When you assume you only make an ass out of u not me.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Apr 21, 2018)

Fact said:


> It is NOT a DA Pilot!!!!
> It is a DPL creation to keep 03 players that don’t make the 02/03
> DA team instead of going to ECNL teams.
> i.e. Fake News/used car salesmen tactics
> ...


It is a US Soccer sanctioned Pilot.  It is likely you won’t see a PR because it is a Pilot program. There was no PR for the ‘05 Pilot program run in the Frontier Division this year either, but it happened and it was sanctioned by USSoccer.  Sorry dude, but your wrong on this one.


----------



## MWN (Apr 21, 2018)

There appears to be a little more information in this article, which appears to be mostly reiterating the press release: http://goalnation.com/girls-dpl-play-u-s-soccer-da-showcase/).  I don't have any trouble believing the teams will show up as "guests" to the DA Showcase The DA will have plenty of fields for each showcase.  The summer showcase is in San Diego/Oceanside, so makes sense to have the unsanctioned DPL "B" teams make an appearance and play against the Frontier division (sanctioned "B" teams).  From the article:



> As part of the programming for the DPL U16 age group, the teams will participate as ‘guest teams’ in the U.S. Soccer Development Academy Winter Showcase and Summer Showcases, to compete against U-16 DA Pilot Program teams from the Frontier Division experiment.


What this means is the Frontier Division experiment is expanding to the U16/03's (ergo the "pilot program"), if we accept this press release as true.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Apr 21, 2018)

Fact said:


> That would be ironic given that my kids are older.


Your kids are in college?  Why are you here?


----------



## cerebro de fútbol (Apr 21, 2018)

At the end of the day its always about parents' egos and $$$$$$ for the clubs and the leagues.  Anyone but me remember similar confusion during the creation of SCDSL/ECNL/EGSL?

At least in AYSO, DDs seem to play for the love of the game and parents don't have to worry about play time, restrictions on high school soccer and the ROI of club soccer.


----------



## JoeZ (Apr 21, 2018)

Fact said:


> I hear you but Blues has always been the exception not the rule.  However I do wonder how many parents are going to be satisfied with their dd on the 3rd team.  I hope they keep their egos in check.


Lot’s of good feedback and views on the subject. It is interesting how views have evolved in the thread once the information was formally released.

Seems however “Fact” needs a “fact check”.

The DPL teams will not be “c” nor in many cases “b”.
The decision to play in DA vs ECNL or DPL is not purely indicative of being the best or the A team.  Some DA teams struggled to pull together rosters while strong players opted to stay ECNL so they could play for their High Schools. My daughter included, leaving the ECNL team that went DA and moving to the new ECNL team.

Candidly having watched a lot of DA and ECNL games there are several ECNL, and (now ECNL going DA2) teams that are stronger than many DA teams.  Overall the talent pool seems split now and it’s namely because of the High School restriction. The  ECNL/DA2 are clearly not “B” teams.

We hear and read many current DA players and parents are not happy with DA. Maybe it’s not for them, having to give up so much while seeing same or lesser level of play and no more college coaches at the showcases as are at the ECNL events.  I suspect this may change.

Nonetheless, fact is both DA and ECNL or DA2 (DPL)  are all good programs depending on one’s situation and objectives.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 21, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Your kids are in college?  Why are you here?


Why not? It's good to hear from people who have been through it.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Apr 21, 2018)

pulguita said:


> To continue:  The DA is a joke run by clowns for incomprehensible reasons.  For the ECNL teams they took the same coaches.  Some of the "outside clubs" should have been ECNL anyhow.  Flush DA.  Take the 13 SoCal clubs and have them be ECNL.  Let the Arizona and Nevada teams go to some other division.  Quit dicking around and get it done.  There is no soccer career for women.  $35000 a year and living with 4 teammates to pay the rent is not a career.  It is a hobby.  ECNL got girls to college - leave it at that.  The top 1% will be the top 1% regardless.  Let the USWNT find them.


I like this guy.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Apr 22, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Why not? It's good to hear from people who have been through it.


I would agree if that was the type of advice he/she shares.


----------



## Fact (Apr 22, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> Lot’s of good feedback and views on the subject. It is interesting how views have evolved in the thread once the information was formally released.
> 
> Seems however “Fact” needs a “fact check”.
> 
> ...


The fact that you still call it DA 2 shows that you know very little about the subject.


----------



## Fact (Apr 22, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Why not? It's good to hear from people who have been through it.





Simisoccerfan said:


> I would agree if that was the type of advice he/she shares.


Thanks Joe. There is just no pleasing some Pansies.


----------



## Sportyspice (Apr 22, 2018)

Blues is still currently doing ECNL. Check Blues website. It shows the 2018/19 assignments. I think there is talk of the DPL team being comprised of the flight 1 teams. But we will see. 



Slammerdad said:


> As I stated (someone disagreed with my post) that WC/Galaxy Cucuk is jumping to DPL from ECNL so it IS happening (along with Blues and possibly more).  I make the point because it appears that those clubs value the idea of being a "DA light" as opposed to a completely different league in ECNL.   I am not bashing ECNL and in fact thing it has some talent better than DA talent. What is more interesting is that many girls who played ECNL played high school last year. I wonder if their parents (or the players themselves) know that they will have to conform to the same no high school soccer rules as DA.


----------



## JoeZ (Apr 22, 2018)

Fact said:


> The fact that you still call it DA 2 shows that you know very little about the subject.


Good morning Fact, Labels don’t always reflect the realities. 

Anyway, all the best and good luck to everyone!


----------



## Vin (Apr 23, 2018)

https://www.usyouthsoccer.org/us-youth-soccer-announces-new-leagues-structure---the-us-youth-soccer-national-leagues/#.WttefOLN9U8.facebook


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 28, 2018)

Fact said:


> The fact that you still call it DA 2 shows that you know very little about the subject.


Thanks for enlightening me to this. DA2, ECNL reserve, et al are created by clubs and coaches to attract parents and players. Replace DA2 with DPL.


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 28, 2018)

What’s it going to be? 

What we seem to have is more fragmentation....

DA, DPL, ECNL. ... all with a mix of player level and seriousness on all three types of teams. Let’s not forget the latest addition of the 03 DA Pilot. 

DA = “development” seems like a legitimate structured program but you live with the substitution rule and cannot play for your HS. Some clubs have solid programs and great teams, others clearly do not. 

03 DA Pilot = “not sure”. It’s not DA and it’s not ECNL or DPL rules.  

DPL, ECNL = ad-hoc, in some clubs it’s not a structured program or training. Some clubs clearly have a solid program and great teams, others clearly do not. Better have a serious, good coach who trains more than once a week with your team and doesn’t comingle training with other teams. Can play for HS and other HS sports. More politics and parents who get away with not paying their club or team fees.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jun 29, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> What’s it going to be?
> 
> DA, DPL, ECNL. ... all with a mix of player level and seriousness on all three types of teams.


agree with some of what you say but DPL is not on par with ECNL or DA.  DPL is ALWAYS a B team


----------



## MWN (Jun 29, 2018)

For whatever reason your not understanding.  Let's try this again and I'm going to just edit your post:

JoeZ said:

_What’s it going to be?

What we seem to have is more fragmentation ....

DA, DPL, ECNL. ... all with a mix of player level and seriousness on all three types of teams. Let’s not forget the latest addition of the 03 DA DPL Pilot.

DA = “development” seems like a legitimate structured program league for elite girls but you live with international the substitution rule and cannot play for your HS. Some clubs have solid programs and great teams, others clearly do not [, but in light of the fact its the first year, that is explainable].

[Note, there is no 03 DA Pilot program in SoCal, there is an 03 DA Pilot program in the Frontier division, but not the Southwest]

03 DA DPL Pilot = “not sure”. It’s not DA and it’s not ECNL or DPL rules. It a DPL program designed to keep the DA composite (02/03 age group) on a single year age group team that will play in the DPL and gets to go to a DA showcase and play against the Frontier 03 pilot girls.

DPL, ECNL = ad-hoc, in some clubs it’s not a structured program or training. Some clubs clearly have a solid program and great teams, others clearly do not. Better have a serious, good coach who trains more than once a week with your team and doesn’t comingle training with other teams. Can play for HS and other HS sports. More politics and parents who get away with not paying their club or team fees.
_
_DPL = Teams located in the Southwest that are for girls that (1) cannot make the DA team or (2) do not want to play under the DA restrictions.  The DPL is a Cal South sanctioned league (i.e. not the the USSDA league).  Because DPL is a Cal South league, players qualify for ODP.

ECNL = Teams located in the Southwest that are for elite girls that want to play HS and with less rigid training rules.

Politics and parents not paying club or team fees are the same across all leagues, with the DA moving towards a fully funded program on the boys side and some clubs attempting to do it on the girls side by subsidizing the teams on the backs of the lower level teams.

As we just completed the first year of the Girls DA and DPL, the jury is out as to level of competition.  The ECNL also suffered some dilution of talent with teams/talent going to the DA.  It will likely take a few years to see how the DA/ECNL battle impacts talent rich SoCal._​


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 29, 2018)

MWN said:


> For whatever reason your not understanding.  Let's try this again and I'm going to just edit your post:
> 
> JoeZ said:
> 
> ...


MWN - I do enjoy your sarcastic humor. Thanks for your feedback.

You do raise good points and capture the specific language that’s been used to describe what is happening. Your earlier schematic was great.

The point I was making was around the notion of the particular leagues having a specific “program” or not.  
From experience and what we see and hear, DA brings a solid structured program which is lacking in most ECNL and DPL clubs and teams, despite not having won over all the most talented and developed players for now. Candidly the quality of the “product” some of those clubs actually deliver is poor vs the expectations promoted.  In cases shameful, training 1x/week, poor training, et al. 

Do you believe that if DA allowed HS that ECNL and DPL would become clearly “B” leagues? 

What are your thoughts on the DPL league vs ECNL?

Your point on the 03 DA Pilot in the frontier leagues vs 03 DPL Pilot in SoCal is well taken.  Seems some clubs are adding to the confusion for their advantage.
My point in showing “not sure” referred to whether or not there is a legitimate “program” to go along with the name. No one seems to know if they will require the DA “program” be complied with for allow the ad-hoc, lack of program DPL /ECNL methodology.


----------



## MWN (Jun 29, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> Do you believe that if DA allowed HS that ECNL and DPL would become clearly “B” leagues?


Yes, I do.  US Soccer is trying to graft the same structure for boys (who potentially have a future in professional soccer) on girls (who really don't have a economically viable professional future).  When almost 99.98345% of all girls will never play on the National Team (only 24 will), its absolutely pathetic that the Federation would deprive these young ladies of the opportunity to play with their friends and classmates.  If a girl chooses to not play HS, then its her decision.  When the vast majority of DA girls will end their career in college, we should not be depriving 99.9% of the DA girls of that opportunity.



JoeZ said:


> What are your thoughts on the DPL league vs ECNL?


DPL is purely an economic play by DA clubs to keep talent in the club with some misleading marketing.  The ECNL serves those that don't want to enter the DA's restrictive system much better than the DPL because of the history and national showcase opportunities that are superior to those offered by the DPL.  At this time, college coaches look at players in the ECNL as equivalent to the DA and superior to those that play in the DPL.  That may change over the course of the next 5 years, but the DPL will always be the ugly step sister.



JoeZ said:


> Your point on the 03 DA Pilot in the frontier leagues vs 03 DPL Pilot in SoCal is well taken.  Seems some clubs are adding to the confusion for their advantage.


Absolutely and its dishonest.  The DPL adopted a logo that uses the same font and color scheme, markets the DPL along side the DA, etc.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Jun 29, 2018)

_DPL is purely an economic play by DA clubs to keep talent in the club with some misleading marketing. The ECNL serves those that don't want to enter the DA's restrictive system much better than the DPL because of the history and national showcase opportunities that are superior to those offered by the DPL. At this time, college coaches look at players in the ECNL as equivalent to the DA and superior to those that play in the DPL. That may change over the course of the next 5 years, but the DPL will always be the ugly step sister._

I agree with this comment if your live in the OC or San Diego but not in LA or north since there has been no ECNL teams in these areas.  The new LA Breakers is a positive step for the west side of LA but there needs to be at least one team north of this area since the traffic to the west side is about the worst in the nation.


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 29, 2018)

I’m hearing that in SoCal, DPL this year will be strong and on par with ECNL. Same people last fall said DPL wasn’t working.......

The 2018/19 DPL club listing includes some solid clubs with solid programs so let’s see how this plays out.  

We were out in NJ for the PDA/ECNL showcase and I was surprised to see they had non-ECNL games scheduled in each age bracket. There were plenty of D1 and D2 schools watching those games as well.


----------



## sdklutz (Jun 29, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> I’m hearing that in SoCal, DPL this year will be strong and on par with ECNL. Same people last fall said DPL wasn’t working.......
> 
> The 2018/19 DPL club listing includes some solid clubs with solid programs so let’s see how this plays out.
> 
> We were out in NJ for the PDA/ECNL showcase and I was surprised to see they had non-ECNL games scheduled in each age bracket. There were plenty of D1 and D2 schools watching those games as well.


It will be a surprise to me if any of the 05 DPL teams in SD can hang with the 2 ECNL teams. The Surf ECNL team will be strong and will likely be able to compete with most of the top 05 DA teams.


----------



## LadiesMan217 (Jun 29, 2018)

sdklutz said:


> It will be a surprise to me if any of the 05 DPL teams in SD can hang with the 2 ECNL teams. The Surf ECNL team will be strong and will likely be able to compete with most of the top 05 DA teams.


Maybe Fox Sports will air a few of the games.


----------



## Fact (Jun 29, 2018)

MWN said:


> For whatever reason your not understanding.  Let's try this again and I'm going to just edit your post:
> 
> JoeZ said:
> 
> ...


Finally someone understands me!


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Jun 29, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> I’m hearing that in SoCal, DPL this year will be strong and on par with ECNL. Same people last fall said DPL wasn’t working.......
> 
> The 2018/19 DPL club listing includes some solid clubs with solid programs so let’s see how this plays out.
> 
> We were out in NJ for the PDA/ECNL showcase and I was surprised to see they had non-ECNL games scheduled in each age bracket. There were plenty of D1 and D2 schools watching those games as well.


Though I am supporter of DPL, I don't agree with your assessment.  I don't see DPL as being on par with ECNL.   I think DPL teams are similar to Flight 1 and Premier teams.   The value of being with a DPL is if it creates a pathway for your daughter to be a DP for the DA  and possibly move full time to the DA.  Regarding college coaches for us both our DPL and our previous CSL teams had similar exposure at events similar to what you mention.  Certainly being DPL did not gain us any additional looks above and beyond other teams.  With DA (and I suspect ECNL) the number of coaches, the quality of the schools, and frankly the interest from those attending is significantly greater.


----------



## Fact (Jun 29, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Certainly being DPL did not gain us any additional looks above and beyond other teams.


Funny, I know you talked about how great the showcase was. So the truth comes out now that his dd is on DA.


----------



## socalkdg (Jun 29, 2018)

sdklutz said:


> It will be a surprise to me if any of the 05 DPL teams in SD can hang with the 2 ECNL teams. The Surf ECNL team will be strong and will likely be able to compete with most of the top 05 DA teams.


Recently played vs a 05 DPL team and it was the equivalent of a Silver Elite or high flight 2 teams.   Thought they would be better.   The team we played with was better in my opinion.

Many girls jump clubs or teams if they don't make the DA team instead are being put onto the DPL team.  I'm sure I'd consider a 45 minute drive for a DA team, but not sure I'd do that for a DPL team.   So many good clubs to choose from makes sense to stay close to home if it isn't the top club.


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 29, 2018)

Fact said:


> Funny, I know you talked about how great the showcase was. So the truth comes out now that his dd is on DA.


So Soccer43 and Fact both think DPL is not on par with ECNL.  You may be right.  

What is the basis for your thinking?


----------



## Pitch pop (Jun 29, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> I’m hearing that in SoCal, DPL this year will be strong and on par with ECNL. Same people last fall said DPL wasn’t working.......
> 
> The 2018/19 DPL club listing includes some solid clubs with solid programs so let’s see how this plays out.
> 
> We were out in NJ for the PDA/ECNL showcase and I was surprised to see they had non-ECNL games scheduled in each age bracket. There were plenty of D1 and D2 schools watching those games as well.


Respectfully..... you are hearing wrong and probably listening to people with vested interests in DPL. With  Slammers going all in ECNL (possibly at least one more big so cal club following soon) and with a solid group of So Cal teams already established in a proven league like ECNL, I don’t think it’s even close. Next year DPL will clearly be a third tier league at best IMHO.


----------



## Dummy (Jun 29, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> So Soccer43 and Fact both think DPL is not on par with ECNL.  You may be right.
> 
> What is the basis for your thinking?


The DPL program is designed to be a B team feeder program to the A team in the DA program (no matter what is being marketed to DPL parents).  For a variety of reasons, feeder teams never keep top players.  A league made up of feeder teams will never become a top league.

The fact that these DPL teams had so few top players could be hidden during fall season play when they retreated into a closed league.  However, matches played in CRL, open college showcases and National Cup demonstrated the true level of DPL teams when many non-ECNL club teams regularly beat DPL teams.

Why would anyone think that ECNL teams would not have done the same this past season?  Why does anyone think it will be different next season?


----------



## Dummy (Jun 29, 2018)

Pitch pop said:


> Respectfully..... you are hearing wrong and probably listening to people with vested interests in DPL. With  Slammers going all in ECNL (possibly at least one more big so cal club following soon) and with a solid group of So Cal teams already established in a proven league like ECNL, I don’t think it’s even close. Next year DPL will clearly be a third tier league at best IMHO.


If DPL teams can’t even make the semi-finals in most National Cup age divisions, why would DPL be considered a better league that CSL Premier or SCDSL Flight 1 which both have many teams that do?


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Jun 30, 2018)

Well in our case we moved to DA full time prior to National Cup and several of our players did not return after HS.  That hurt the quality of our DPL team.  We also had 3 02’s move up to DA and that hit the 02 DPL team hard.  It is possibly that since DPL is a feeder league similar things occurred at other clubs and  some of the DPL teams had weakened by that time.  CSL and Flight 1 teams would not have been effected the same way by losing their best players.


----------



## Justafan (Jun 30, 2018)

Dummy said:


> If DPL teams can’t even make the semi-finals in most National Cup age divisions, why would DPL be considered a better league that CSL Premier or SCDSL Flight 1 which both have many teams that do?


Nobody should EVER have considered DPL better than flight 1 or CSL premiere.  I said that from day 1!!!!  That’s the problem with posts from people like JoeZ, when you include DPL in a discussion with ecnl and DA, and exclude flight 1 and premiere, people assume DPL is superior than flight 1 and premiere.  I have fought that perception ad nauseam with Simi from the get go.


----------



## Justafan (Jun 30, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Well in our case we moved to DA full time prior to National Cup and several of our players did not return after HS.  That hurt the quality of our DPL team.  We also had 3 02’s move up to DA and that hit the 02 DPL team hard.  It is possibly that since DPL is a feeder league similar things occurred at other clubs and  some of the DPL teams had weakened by that time.  CSL and Flight 1 teams would not have been effected the same way by losing their best players.


Simi, I agreed with you on your previous post, but now your making excuses!!! No!!!!!


----------



## Fact (Jun 30, 2018)

Justafan said:


> Nobody should EVER have considered DPL better than flight 1 or CSL premiere.  I said that from day 1!!!!  That’s the problem with posts from people like JoeZ, when you include DPL in a discussion with ecnl and DA, and exclude flight 1 and premiere, people assume DPL is superior than flight 1 and premiere.  I have fought that perception ad nauseam with Simi from the get go.





Justafan said:


> Simi, I agreed with you on your previous post, but now your making excuses!!! No!!!!!


Justafan you’ ve said it all. Thank you!


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 30, 2018)

Dummy said:


> If DPL teams can’t even make the semi-finals in most National Cup age divisions, why would DPL be considered a better league that CSL Premier or SCDSL Flight 1 which both have many teams that do?


All this perspective is interesting and there’s strong opinions.

Hey, we’re new to this DPL thing and enjoyed the last years with ECNL.


Simisoccerfan said:


> Well in our case we moved to DA full time prior to National Cup and several of our players did not return after HS.  That hurt the quality of our DPL team.  We also had 3 02’s move up to DA and that hit the 02 DPL team hard.  It is possibly that since DPL is a feeder league similar things occurred at other clubs and  some of the DPL teams had weakened by that time.  CSL and Flight 1 teams would not have been effected the same way by losing their best players.


Appreciate the factual feedback. There is a lot of good feedback in this thread overall and there is purely emotion in some of the posts. 

Like you, we are in the middle of this thing.  I say again the top levels DA, ECNL/DPL all have great teams and players. Could there be a couple flight one teams that can compete at the lower DA/ECNL/DPL level, hmm maybe. This is also possible when a team is weakened when players leave DPL teams to play or guest on their DA teams, when teams have injured players and candidly when parents and players don't want to play National Cup. Then there is RB who took his team to the National Cup and crushed every team they played. 

In seems in this second year of DA and DPL there is a lot of reshuffling of players and teams again.  There will be some great teams in each of the top leagues. DPL players are able to play some games on their club’s DA teams. Not a bad deal if that is what you want and can achieve. 

During the player/parent q&a discussion at the college ID camp of a top D1 school this spring I asked the venerable coach what he thought. Does it matter whether our daughters are on DA, ECNL or DPL? The answer was no, it doesn’t. There are other things that matter more.


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 30, 2018)

Oh and justafan - get with the program!


----------



## Mystery Train (Jun 30, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> So Soccer43 and Fact both think DPL is not on par with ECNL.  You may be right.
> 
> What is the basis for your thinking?


I don't know anyone, even DPL parents, who would contend that the DPL teams are on par with ECNL.  In the 02 age group, DPL had a few teams that were on par with the better F1 and CSL premier teams.  But not arguably better than them.  There were several DPL teams that were very weak.  Overall, it seemed a shame to me for the sake of all the teams that the DPL even existed.  It didn't seem to  provide any additional benefits and instead watered down the already watered down competition.


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 30, 2018)

Dummy said:


> The DPL program is designed to be a B team feeder program to the A team in the DA program (no matter what is being marketed to DPL parents).  For a variety of reasons, feeder teams never keep top players.  A league made up of feeder teams will never become a top league.
> 
> The fact that these DPL teams had so few top players could be hidden during fall season play when they retreated into a closed league.  However, matches played in CRL, open college showcases and National Cup demonstrated the true level of DPL teams when many non-ECNL club teams regularly beat DPL teams.
> 
> Why would anyone think that ECNL teams would not have done the same this past season?  Why does anyone think it will be different next season?


Dummy, it goes both ways. 

A few weeks ago my dd played on her new team that will be a DPL, playing up a year at a college showcase in Norco.  They also borrowed a few players from the to be 03 DPL team due to injuries. They humiliated the flight 1 teams they played.  I even felt bad for the players. In fact my dd overheard parents on one of the teams consoling their players and telling them it’s not their fault, they were playing a higher level and 2 of them even have ECNL patches!  

We are going to give DPL a chance.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jun 30, 2018)

Mystery Train said:


> I don't know anyone, even DPL parents, who would contend that the DPL teams are on par with ECNL.  In the 02 age group, DPL had a few teams that were on par with the better F1 and CSL premier teams.  But not arguably better than them.  There were several DPL teams that were very weak.  Overall, it seemed a shame to me for the sake of all the teams that the DPL even existed.  It didn't seem to  provide any additional benefits and instead watered down the already watered down competition.


It's all about money, control and power.


----------



## timbuck (Jun 30, 2018)

There should be DA and ECNL clubs with a closed league system (I don’t like closed leagues, but I don’t think it’s going away anytime soon).
Everything else should be scdsl or coast with promotion/relegation above the age of 12 or 13.

DA and ECNL should allow players to move around. But after the 3rd game playing up to DA/ECNL or down from DA/ECNL , a player has to be placed permanently on one of the teams.


----------



## Dummy (Jun 30, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> Dummy, it goes both ways.
> 
> A few weeks ago my dd played on her new team that will be a DPL, playing up a year at a college showcase in Norco.  They also borrowed a few players from the to be 03 DPL team due to injuries. They humiliated the flight 1 teams they played.  I even felt bad for the players. In fact my dd overheard parents on one of the teams consoling their players and telling them it’s not their fault, they were playing a higher level and 2 of them even have ECNL patches!
> 
> We are going to give DPL a chance.


Fine.  I have no opinion about where your player should play.  Every family has different options available based on what clubs are nearby.  It is good that her DPL team could beat a regular club team with two ECNL guest players.

If it is important for you to believe that DPL is a top league at the level of DA and ECNL, that is fine too.  There are plenty of other DPL parents that believe the same thing.

You are asked for the opinions of others about DPL.  If you already know what your opinion is,  then why ask the question on an internet forum?

No answer necessary.  Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## futboldad1 (Jun 30, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> All this perspective is interesting and there’s strong opinions.
> 
> Hey, we’re new to this DPL thing and enjoyed the last years with ECNL.
> 
> ...


Ha, so it's factual when it agrees with your opinions/hopes...But emotional claptrap when it doesn't.... got it. 

Here is a fact: You got sold on DPL as being a legit and thus get defensive when those of us _not with a vested interest_ tell you how it really  is.


----------



## Justafan (Jun 30, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> All this perspective is interesting and there’s strong opinions.
> 
> Hey, we’re new to this DPL thing and enjoyed the last years with ECNL.
> 
> ...


JoeZ, you’re asking for feedback, but you sure seem to have all the answers already, hmm!  Were you looking for validation or affirmation?

“Could there be a couple flight one teams that can compete at the lower . . .ECNL/DPL level, hmm maybe.”  This statement is laughable.


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 30, 2018)

Thanks for your reply. I don’t have the answers as this will be her first year playing in DPL from ECNL (one of those 2 players I mentioned) and there are many perspectives on the subject. 

Good luck to all of us.


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 30, 2018)

futboldad1 said:


> Ha, so it's factual when it agrees with your opinions/hopes...But emotional claptrap when it doesn't.... got it.
> 
> Here is a fact: You got sold on DPL as being a legit and thus get defensive when those of us _not with a vested interest_ tell you how it really  is.


Sorry futboldad1, just doesn’t seem sensible to draw conclusions (or tell anyone how it really is) on something based on one year into it.  Especially considering how fluid the change is and movement of players across clubs and teams and the variations by age group. 

Good luck to all...and thanks for all the feedback


----------



## pewpew (Jun 30, 2018)

I just  want to know if my kid will get a cool patch to wear on her kit. Will it say DPL or have a big 3 layered on top of a soccer ball so everyone knows we are Tier3?!
(Sorry if this was already asked.)


----------



## Pitch pop (Jun 30, 2018)

Like you, we are in the middle of this thing.  I say again the top levels DA, ECNL/DPL all have great teams and players. Could there be a couple flight one teams that can compete at the lower DA/ECNL/DPL level, hmm maybe.

Joe I think the issue you are running into on this forum is that you are in a very small minority of people who are trying to convince themselves that DPL is a comparable option to DA or ECNL . It isn’t, and like I said before it really isn’t close.


----------



## pewpew (Jun 30, 2018)

But without reading thru all the pages I can tell that the common thought among most (other than those that have consumed far too much DPL Kool-Aid) is that DA/ECNL are parallel as far as level of play with the exception that there are teams on both sides of the fence that are strong and others that are weak. And ECNL has a bit more flexibility. HS soccer,subs,etc. 
But let's be honest. DPL is NOT comparable to DA/ECNL top level teams. We played F1 SCDSL last season and we were NOT  in Champions bracket. We finished middle of the pack in our bracket. But then again my own opinion of our team is we weren't that good of a team. Had a lot of trouble scoring. In National Cup we played a DPL team that beat us 0-1. We played better than them the majority of the game. Just gave up an unlucky goal. I was expecting to get beat by much more. The level of the DPL team was the equivalent of many teams we faced during regular season. So to say DPL is on par with DA/ECNL..well if that makes you feel better then so be it. But it's just not the case. My .02


----------



## GoWest (Jun 30, 2018)

Pitch pop said:


> Joe I think the issue you are running into on this forum is that you are in a very small minority of people who are trying to convince themselves that DPL is a comparable option to DA or ECNL . It isn’t, and like I said before it really isn’t close


Well said.



JoeZ said:


> Sorry futboldad1, just doesn’t seem sensible to draw conclusions (or tell anyone how it really is) on something based on one year into it.  Especially considering how fluid the change is and movement of players across clubs and teams and the variations by age group.
> 
> Good luck to all...and thanks for all the feedback


What's the real 'difference' (i.e., talent, soccer IQ, etc) between a GDA player and a DPL player in your opinion? I wont press you on what ECNL team you came from.....So, I've seen some lengthy rosters for GDA teams and being required to accept a spot on a DPL team is telling in and of itself. Unless your DD plays for Blues, Slammers or Surf, is being player #24, say on Albion for example, really worth all the fuss? If on average 16 FT rostered GDA players split minutes in any given game, not including the keeper, what's left for the balance of the FT rostered players fighting for the #18 spot? Just curious to understand why all the fuss over being rostered on a DPL team, which in any GDA universe is clearly that clubs 'B-team,' it just seems silly IMHO.

As I opened up with, please explain the 'difference' in your opinion, that way I can sensibly draw a conclusion.


----------



## Pitch pop (Jun 30, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> Like you, we are in the middle of this thing.  I say again the top levels DA, ECNL/DPL all have great teams and players. Could there be a couple flight one teams that can compete at the lower DA/ECNL/DPL level, hmm maybe.


Joe I think the issue you are running into on this forum is that you are in a very small minority of people who are trying to convince themselves that DPL is a comparable option to DA or ECNL . It isn’t, and like I said before it really isn’t close.


----------



## Mystery Train (Jun 30, 2018)

I would not criticize any parent for signing up for a DPL squad.  You choose teams based on coach, playing time, training, and quality of the other players.  If that equation translates as DPL team for your kid, fantastic.  But to do so and then position it as a parallel league to ECNL is either disingenuous or misinformed.  It simply isn't.  Depending on age groups and individual clubs, the debate between DA and ECNL as far as who has the best collection of teams is a legitimate one.  DPL is comparable to F1 and CSL premier in terms of level of competition, with a possible added advantage of being called up to a DA team.


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 30, 2018)

GoWest said:


> Well said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok Go West, Our club changed from ECNL to DPL. We did not have the choice unless changing clubs after many years.  Fortunately moved onto a team with a great coach and solid fellow players which is more important than which patch or no patch. Of course the quality of league play is very important as well. You may be right about some of the teams but one can say the same about the other leagues as well.  I will support it until proven otherwise. 

What the difference should be and really is, well that is a function of all the prerequisites + player, team and coach.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Jun 30, 2018)

Justafan said:


> Nobody should EVER have considered DPL better than flight 1 or CSL premiere.  I said that from day 1!!!!  That’s the problem with posts from people like JoeZ, when you include DPL in a discussion with ecnl and DA, and exclude flight 1 and premiere, people assume DPL is superior than flight 1 and premiere.  I have fought that perception ad nauseam with Simi from the get go.


My opinion is it’s on par with Flight 1 and SCDSL.


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 30, 2018)

Mystery Train said:


> I would not criticize any parent for signing up for a DPL squad.  You choose teams based on coach, playing time, training, and quality of the other players.  If that equation translates as DPL team for your kid, fantastic.  But to do so and then position it as a parallel league to ECNL is either disingenuous or misinformed.  It simply isn't.  Depending on age groups and individual clubs, the debate between DA and ECNL as far as who has the best collection of teams is a legitimate one.  DPL is comparable to F1 and CSL premier in terms of level of competition, with a possible added advantage of being called up to a DA team.


Mystery train, some harsh language there.  What’s your interest in trying to purport DPL is flight 1 level?  That is clearly not the plan nor intent of the league.


----------



## pewpew (Jun 30, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> Mystery train, some harsh language there.  What’s your interest in trying to purport DPL is flight 1 level?  That is clearly not the plan nor intent of the league.


The plan of DPL is to keep YOUR MONEY in THEIR CLUB and to make you think that your DPL kid is at the same level as the DA kid. The plan of DPL is to limit your exposure to other comparable teams in CSL-Premier or SCDSL by saying DPL is exclusive whereas if they'd let you play against the other two leagues other than tournaments or National Cup you'd see you are paying for something extra wherein fact once you play against that top-notch CSL or SCDSL team you'll see DPL is equal..if  not sometimes less than at times. Sorry. Reality check.


----------



## Justafan (Jun 30, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> Mystery train, some harsh language there.  What’s your interest in trying to purport DPL is flight 1 level?  That is clearly not the plan nor intent of the league.


The interest is: the truth. 

The plan and/or intent of the league is: irrelevant 

Stop fighting it JoeZ, and don’t take our word for it, just look at the results.


----------



## MWN (Jun 30, 2018)

If you look at how those DPL teams that "made it" did in CRL last year, that facts are:

2005 - Beach FC SB G05 DPL (13th).  12 Flight 1/Gold/Premiere teams were better.  Conclusion, the DPL team sucked.
2004 - Beach FC G04 DPL (1st).  Real So Cal DPL (7th).  LA Galaxy 2004 DPL (12th).  Conclusion, 1 DPL team was great, one was average and one sucked.
2003 - LA Galaxy DPL 03 (6th).  Conclusion, 1 DPL team was average.
2002 - Real So Cal (2nd), Beach (6th), Albion DPL (7th).  Conclusion, 1 DPL team was great, two were average.
2001 - LA Galaxy DPL 2001 (7th), Albion SC G2001 DPL Academy (8th), Beach FC G01 DPL (9th).  Conclusion 3 DPL teams were below average.

The CRL represents the better Flight 1/Premiere teams and when competing against these teams, on balance the DPL teams were slightly below average, with only 1 team excelling.  Beach FC 03, which also finished first in the DPL.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jun 30, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> Mystery train, some harsh language there.  What’s your interest in trying to purport DPL is flight 1 level?  That is clearly not the plan nor intent of the league.


There is quite a range among flight one teams as there is quite a range in premier teams.
The top premier and flight one teams can hold their own with many DA and ECNL teams.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 30, 2018)

MWN said:


> If you look at how those DPL teams that "made it" did in CRL last year, that facts are:
> 
> 2005 - Beach FC SB G05 DPL (13th).  12 Flight 1/Gold/Premiere teams were better.  Conclusion, the DPL team sucked.
> 2004 - Beach FC G04 DPL (1st).  Real So Cal DPL (7th).  LA Galaxy 2004 DPL (12th).  Conclusion, 1 DPL team was great, one was average and one sucked.
> ...


Was there DPL at ‘05 last year?


----------



## Mystery Train (Jun 30, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> Mystery train, some harsh language there.  What’s your interest in trying to purport DPL is flight 1 level?  That is clearly not the plan nor intent of the league.


Not trying to be harsh.  I'm just stating my evaluation based on firsthand observations from 2 tournaments, National Cup and friends of my DD who played last season on a DPL team.  In addition to my own eyes, the results MWN listed are there to see as well.  Now, maybe the DPL team your kid is on is really strong.  Maybe it's better than the ECNL team she left.  But on the whole, across all age groups, DPL teams performed similarly to F1 and CSL Premier teams in open competition.  Period.  You can say, "It's just the first season.  It will get better.  Give it time."  But that's speculation.  Based on the fact that the best DPL players aspire to play DA and are generally the b team at a given club, stability from year to year (as pointed out by you and Simi in defense of poor Natioal Cup results) will be even worse than most teams and therefore the overall quality of competition will have wild variations between the best and worst DPL teams.  In the 2002 age group, two F1 teams beat 2 DPL teams to reach the finals.  Those two F1 finalists would be 4 or 5  goal underdogs to Blues ECNL or LAFC Slammers DA (who just switched to ECNL for next year). So no, it's not a legitimate debate, and I really don't think I'm being harsh.  Just pointing to the results.


----------



## MWN (Jun 30, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> Was there DPL at ‘05 last year?


Well ... I looked at the CRL and not the DPL website.  I see there was a team called "Beach FC SB G05 DPL" and looking at the DPL website, I see there was no 05 division.  Hmmm, Beach had a DPL team ... so maybe this just validates all the opinions regarding the dishonesty of the DPL?


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Jun 30, 2018)

GoWest said:


> Well said.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My dd played DPL and DA this past season and the real differences are speed play, poise with the ball while under pressure, athleticism, and decision making.  The reason I am fan of DPL is because it gave my dd a pathway to the DA as it did for several other kids I know.[/QUOTE]


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 30, 2018)

Justafan said:


> The interest is: the truth.
> 
> The plan and/or intent of the league is: irrelevant
> 
> Stop fighting it JoeZ, and don’t take our word for it, just look at the results.


W O W - you are all fired up over this. First year results!! Holy cow Batman!
Plan and intent is everything. Year one and the flight 1 and 2 parents are already crying and trying to kill it.  This is entertaining to read.


pewpew said:


> The plan of DPL is to keep YOUR MONEY in THEIR CLUB and to make you think that your DPL kid is at the same level as the DA kid. The plan of DPL is to limit your exposure to other comparable teams in CSL-Premier or SCDSL by saying DPL is exclusive whereas if they'd let you play against the other two leagues other than tournaments or National Cup you'd see you are paying for something extra wherein fact once you play against that top-notch CSL or SCDSL team you'll see DPL is equal..if  not sometimes less than at times. Sorry. Reality check.


Pewpew, you keep me laughing and crying at the same time. Thank you for the laughs! Unless it’s sponsored or free, it’s a business and about money regardless of DA,DPL or ECNL down to the lower levels flight 1,2,3 et al. Your bit about limiting exposure is absolutely hilarious!  Thank you again!


----------



## Mystery Train (Jun 30, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> I am fan of DPL is because it gave my dd a pathway to the DA as it did for several other kids I know.


[/QUOTE]

This is the one advantage a DPL team has over F1 and CSL premier.  If DA is the goal, but your player isn't ready, this is how it should work.  I don't necessarily see why the DPL teams couldn't accomplish this same purpose within SCDSL and CSL instead of doing their own closed league thing, which is I think what spawns so much resentment from non DPL parents.


----------



## Fact (Jun 30, 2018)

This is the one advantage a DPL team has over F1 and CSL premier.  If DA is the goal, but your player isn't ready, this is how it should work.  I don't necessarily see why the DPL teams couldn't accomplish this same purpose within SCDSL and CSL instead of doing their own closed league thing, which is I think what spawns so much resentment from non DPL parents.[/QUOTE]
My resentment of DPL is the false advertising , the fragmentation of another league and the arrogance that DPL parents spew about their league being better than CSL and SCDCL.  A team is a team. Put your kid on the team that is at the right level, has a good coach and the players and parents get along....Period.


----------



## Fact (Jun 30, 2018)

Justafan and Pewpew you are wasting your time with this idiot. If you look at how this conversation evolved she is just looking for validation that she spent her husbands hard earned money on this garbage.


----------



## Mystery Train (Jun 30, 2018)

Fact said:


> My resentment of DPL is the false advertising , the fragmentation of another league and the arrogance that DPL parents spew about their league being better than CSL and SCDCL.  A team is a team. Put your kid on the team that is at the right level, has a good coach and the players and parents get along....Period.


The fragmentation was my big gripe.  This year I noticed how much it has helped my DD's development to play the toughest competition she can.  The dilution of DA and ECNL hurt SCDSL and CSL enough, but the separation of another 8 or 9 clubs was really needless and I think did a disservice to DPL players as well.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Jun 30, 2018)

This is the one advantage a DPL team has over F1 and CSL premier.  If DA is the goal, but your player isn't ready, this is how it should work.  I don't necessarily see why the DPL teams couldn't accomplish this same purpose within SCDSL and CSL instead of doing their own closed league thing, which is I think what spawns so much resentment from non DPL parents.[/QUOTE]

In our case I don’t think it was a case of not being ready.  It was more we were new to the club and they initially had a preference for girls that played with them for years.  I don’t really care about the closed league issue.  My belief is that the people upset with that are too concerned about team rankings.


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 30, 2018)

MWN said:


> If you look at how those DPL teams that "made it" did in CRL last year, that facts are:
> 
> 2005 - Beach FC SB G05 DPL (13th).  12 Flight 1/Gold/Premiere teams were better.  Conclusion, the DPL team sucked.
> 2004 - Beach FC G04 DPL (1st).  Real So Cal DPL (7th).  LA Galaxy 2004 DPL (12th).  Conclusion, 1 DPL team was great, one was average and one sucked.
> ...


MWN your feedback is always credible and factual in my view and much appreciated. 

One point I would like make is the DPL teams are likely to lose players during the season. Injury’s and exits on their DA teams mean they borrow or take DPL players from their teams.  It really affects a team and it’s players when their top players are taken to play on another team in the club leaving them short handed and they have no pool of eligible guest players to fill the spots.  This also happens with DA and ECNL teams though they can only pull from other DA or ECNL teams respectively. 04’s playing 03 and 03 playing 02/01/00 and so on. 
This being said it is not surprising if those teams played in a showcase at the end of the season they may struggle unless they have could have guest players.  
The questionable thing for me about National Cup and other flight 1-2 tournaments is almost every flight 1 or 2 team has 2-3 or more guest players, usually from their top teams and even from ECNL teams. This from direct and observed experience over the years.  As such I’m not sure the stats for those events are always relevant.  

Thanks again for your feedback today.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jun 30, 2018)

MWN said:


> Well ... I looked at the CRL and not the DPL website.  I see there was a team called "Beach FC SB G05 DPL" and looking at the DPL website, I see there was no 05 division.  Hmmm, Beach had a DPL team ... so maybe this just validates all the opinions regarding the dishonesty of the DPL?


I just want to clarify because I think you are mistaken and don’t want your position in this debate to be invalid based on inaccuracies.  Beach did not have an ‘05 DPL Team last year (‘17-‘18 season).  Mainly because there were no ‘05 DPL teams in any SoCal Clubs last season.  Maybe I misunderstood and you were referring at the current CRL (‘18-‘19 season) website.  On that list there is a Beach SB team and a Beach DPL team listed, not a “Beach SB DPL team”. The ‘05 Beach DPL Team is a newly formed team for the ‘17-‘18 DPL season made up of players from their SB and LB players that are not playing DA.  So your conclusion that “they sucked” is false narrative.


----------



## JoeZ (Jun 30, 2018)

Fact said:


> This is the one advantage a DPL team has over F1 and CSL premier.  If DA is the goal, but your player isn't ready, this is how it should work.  I don't necessarily see why the DPL teams couldn't accomplish this same purpose within SCDSL and CSL instead of doing their own closed league thing, which is I think what spawns so much resentment from non DPL parents.


My resentment of DPL is the false advertising , the fragmentation of another league and the arrogance that DPL parents spew about their league being better than CSL and SCDCL.  A team is a team. Put your kid on the team that is at the right level, has a good coach and the players and parents get along


MWN said:


> Well ... I looked at the CRL and not the DPL website.  I see there was a team called "Beach FC SB G05 DPL" and looking at the DPL website, I see there was no 05 division.  Hmmm, Beach had a DPL team ... so maybe this just validates all the opinions regarding the dishonesty of the DPL?


I have found Beach to be a strong reputable club. There must be some misunderstanding or interpretation.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 1, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> I agree with what you shared though I am just now learning what DPL is all about and it’s level of competitiveness.  I’m not sure DPL will be lesser than ECNL next year considering the clubs (ours included) that just announced moving girls ECNL program to DPL, alongside the DA program.


JoeZ, you are telling us that you are “just now learning what DPL is all about and it’s level of competitiveness,” yet you are certain that it is superior to flight 1 and premiere, and on par with ECNL.  

Relax Joe, take a deep breath because everything is going to be ok.  It’s obvious that your ego took a hit going from ECNL to DPL and you’re concerned about the prestige of DPL. 

Remember it’s always about your player first.  Your PARTICULAR team may well be as good as several ECNL teams and lower DA teams, but that is true of top flight 1 and premiere teams.  

But you have to stop trying so hard to promote DPL’s superiority.  Your trying to con a conman, and we are all conmen on this forum.  It’s not going to work.


----------



## MWN (Jul 1, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> I just want to clarify because I think you are mistaken and don’t want your position in this debate to be invalid based on inaccuracies.  Beach did not have an ‘05 DPL Team last year (‘17-‘18 season).  Mainly because there were no ‘05 DPL teams in any SoCal Clubs last season.  Maybe I misunderstood and you were referring at the current CRL (‘18-‘19 season) website.  On that list there is a Beach SB team and a Beach DPL team listed, not a “Beach SB DPL team”. The ‘05 Beach DPL Team is a newly formed team for the ‘17-‘18 DPL season made up of players from their SB and LB players that are not playing DA.  So your conclusion that “they sucked” is false narrative.


All I can tell you is that Beach called their team for the 2017 CRL season with the name "*Beach FC SB G05 DPL*" see:

https://2017crlleagueseason.sportsaffinity.com/m/tour/standing.aspx?flightguid=4CA7D3BF-40CD-4A54-A39A-1D5A4D204636&tournamentguid=D388082C-745C-4D0B-B45D-8D225EAC7B94&sessionguid=&flightname=Girls U13/2005

All I'm really saying is the team labeled by BEACH - *Beach FC SB G05 DPL* came in last place in the 2017 CRL season per the standings above.  The fact that there was no 2005 DPL age bracket is an indictment on Beach and the misleading nature of the league.


----------



## MWN (Jul 1, 2018)

JoeZ said:


> MWN your feedback is always credible and factual in my view and much appreciated.
> 
> One point I would like make is the DPL teams are likely to lose players during the season. Injury’s and exits on their DA teams mean they borrow or take DPL players from their teams.  It really affects a team and it’s players when their top players are taken to play on another team in the club leaving them short handed and they have no pool of eligible guest players to fill the spots.  This also happens with DA and ECNL teams though they can only pull from other DA or ECNL teams respectively. 04’s playing 03 and 03 playing 02/01/00 and so on.
> This being said it is not surprising if those teams played in a showcase at the end of the season they may struggle unless they have could have guest players.
> ...


A few quick points: 
You wrote:


> This also happens with DA and ECNL teams though they can only pull from other DA or ECNL teams respectively.


The DA rules define players into two categories full-time "FT" and development players "DP."  FT players must start at least 25% of the season and DP players cannot play more than 6 games.  DP players must play with the club.  DA teams can pull DP players to fill roster spots from any club team ... a flight 3 player is legal, as well as, flight 2, flight 1, DPL, etc.  By allowing DA clubs to pull any player from the club up to the DA as a "development player" its benefits the level of competition and the players themselves.

You imply that the DPL disallows guest players, which is why teams may be less competitive.  I'm surprised that the DPL won't let players "club pass" onto teams/games.  If true (I have no reason to doubt it), then this presents a major negative to the league because the level of competition isn't maintained.

The benefit of playing with a larger club with various levels of play is that players can move up the ranks during the season and shift down (at least in the SCDSL ... CSL has stricter rules).  It maintains competition and helps players.  Locking players with is dumb and hurts competition and development.

I think we can all agree though that in light of the fact that the level of play in the DPL is on par with Gold/Premier in CSL and Flight 1 in SCDSL the league isn't really necessary.  That said, as long as parents are not being fed misleading information and as long as clubs do not capitalize on the confusion, then to each their own.


----------



## Fact (Jul 1, 2018)

MWN said:


> I think we can all agree though that in light of the fact that the level of play in the DPL is on par with Gold/Premier in CSL and Flight 1 in SCDSL


***correction- I think we can all agree that SOME of the top DPL teams play on par with Gold/Premier CSL and Flight 1 SCDSL HOWEVER SOME DPL teams are mid level Silver or Flight 2 at best.


----------



## Fact (Jul 1, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> I just want to clarify because I think you are mistaken and don’t want your position in this debate to be invalid based on inaccuracies.  Beach did not have an ‘05 DPL Team last year (‘17-‘18 season).  Mainly because there were no ‘05 DPL teams in any SoCal Clubs last season.  Maybe I misunderstood and you were referring at the current CRL (‘18-‘19 season) website.  On that list there is a Beach SB team and a Beach DPL team listed, not a “Beach SB DPL team”. The ‘05 Beach DPL Team is a newly formed team for the ‘17-‘18 DPL season made up of players from their SB and LB players that are not playing DA.  So your conclusion that “they sucked” is false narrative.


Kicker I did notice that some 05 teams named their top team that would become the DA DPL.  Just like some teams started to use the EGSL name the year before the team was eligible for ECNL.   I don’t think it was to con anyone thou but rather because the teams participated in a Showcase maybe?  After all why would they want to convince the top team that they are second best.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 1, 2018)

Fact said:


> Kicker I did notice that some 05 teams named their top team that would become the DA DPL.  Just like some teams started to use the EGSL name the year before the team was eligible for ECNL.   I don’t think it was to con anyone thou but rather because the teams participated in a Showcase maybe?  After all why would they want to convince the top team that they are second best.


Not the case. Look at that teams listing in SCDSL, I know the team, the families and I GUARNATEE that LY there was no combo team or tournament team in place for CRL.  If there had, it would NOT be called DPL or Per-DPL, it would have been Pre-Academy as all the other Academy/DPL Clubs have done.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 1, 2018)

MWN said:


> All I can tell you is that Beach called their team for the 2017 CRL season with the name "*Beach FC SB G05 DPL*" see:
> 
> https://2017crlleagueseason.sportsaffinity.com/m/tour/standing.aspx?flightguid=4CA7D3BF-40CD-4A54-A39A-1D5A4D204636&tournamentguid=D388082C-745C-4D0B-B45D-8D225EAC7B94&sessionguid=&flightname=Girls U13/2005
> 
> All I'm really saying is the team labeled by BEACH - *Beach FC SB G05 DPL* came in last place in the 2017 CRL season per the standings above.  The fact that there was no 2005 DPL age bracket is an indictment on Beach and the misleading nature of the league.


The strange thing about that site you referenced is that no matter what team you select for Contact Info, it defaults to LAGSD Pre-Academy. So something is fishy with that site. 

I know that ‘05 is not in your wheelhouse of intimate knowledge and all I am trying to do is clear the air so that your arguement is not invalidated by bad information.  I know this team very well and can honestly tell you that they did not refer to themselves as a DPL team last year. 

This Team ID has become the DPL team for the ‘18/‘19 season but under a new coach as the previous Coach (who took over mid year) became the ‘05 DA.  You can check the tournaments, the actual CRL schedule from last season (if you can find it) or pM me and I’ll give you more info. 

I will close with I am also one to call out teams using false monikers, so I am not trolling you. I do see where you got your info, I’m just sayingg that that source is inaccurate.


----------



## JoeZ (Jul 1, 2018)

Justafan said:


> JoeZ, you are telling us that you are “just now learning what DPL is all about and it’s level of competitiveness,” yet you are certain that it is superior to flight 1 and premiere, and on par with ECNL.
> 
> Relax Joe, take a deep breath because everything is going to be ok.  It’s obvious that your ego took a hit going from ECNL to DPL and you’re concerned about the prestige of DPL.
> 
> ...


Justafan, I really enjoy seeing these replies and how people like you and Fact react. 

One thing is certain. You, Fact and some people from CRL and Flight 1-2 have some deep resentments and even some anger over these new leagues.   Got it. 

I will give this new league a chance. 

Many thanks and good luck next season.


----------



## JoeZ (Jul 1, 2018)

Fact said:


> ***correction- I think we can all agree that SOME of the top DPL teams play on par with Gold/Premier CSL and Flight 1 SCDSL HOWEVER SOME DPL teams are mid level Silver or Flight 2 at best.


Fact, thank you for your opinions


MWN said:


> A few quick points:
> You wrote:
> 
> The DA rules define players into two categories full-time "FT" and development players "DP."  FT players must start at least 25% of the season and DP players cannot play more than 6 games.  DP players must play with the club.  DA teams can pull DP players to fill roster spots from any club team ... a flight 3 player is legal, as well as, flight 2, flight 1, DPL, etc.  By allowing DA clubs to pull any player from the club up to the DA as a "development player" its benefits the level of competition and the players themselves.
> ...


MWN, not saying one cannot pull players up to guest from the lower levels but who does that? I’ve only been in this club thing 9 years and I have never seen a coach guest a player that they didn’t think would benefit the team. They pull the best players they can get. Like I said take a couple top 03s to play on 02 or top 04 to play 03... If there is a strong developing flight 1 player yes of course bring them up to see how they do, but that’s rare.   Maybe it happens more I just haven’t seen it myself.  I can only share what I have seen.   

Thanks again for you feedback


----------



## pewpew (Jul 1, 2018)

G03 CRL Play-In was this weekend. LAGSD was the only DPL team listed in the brackets. They lost ALL THREE games. Including a 0-1 loss to Crown City United..a team that finished 2nd in their bracket in CSL. Almost forgot..(not really...just trying to make it suspenseful)...wait for it...CCU is a SILVER ELITE team!! 
So please tell me again who DPL is on par with.......
Where's the crickets emoji when I need it?!?!


----------



## SoccerFan (Jul 2, 2018)

pewpew said:


> G03 CRL Play-In was this weekend. LAGSD was the only DPL team listed in the brackets. They lost ALL THREE games. Including a 0-1 loss to Crown City United..a team that finished 2nd in their bracket in CSL. Almost forgot..(not really...just trying to make it suspenseful)...wait for it...CCU is a SILVER ELITE team!!
> So please tell me again who DPL is on par with.......
> Where's the crickets emoji when I need it?!?!


Don’t forget this year the G03 Pilot formed. For this age group the new DPL team is for sure not the B team!


----------



## Fact (Jul 2, 2018)

SoccerFan said:


> Don’t forget this year the G03 Pilot formed. For this age group the new DPL team is for sure not the B team!


03 A team players will be playing on the 02/03 combo team. Sorry but it the truth.


----------



## Fact (Jul 2, 2018)

pewpew said:


> G03 CRL Play-In was this weekend. LAGSD was the only DPL team listed in the brackets. They lost ALL THREE games. Including a 0-1 loss to Crown City United..a team that finished 2nd in their bracket in CSL. Almost forgot..(not really...just trying to make it suspenseful)...wait for it...CCU is a SILVER ELITE team!!
> So please tell me again who DPL is on par with.......
> Where's the crickets emoji when I need it?!?!


This team is basically the same team that played in Silver Elite Coast before DA.  So how does the name change to DPL magically make them better than CSL and SCDSL teams?


----------



## Dummy (Jul 2, 2018)

pewpew said:


> G03 CRL Play-In was this weekend. LAGSD was the only DPL team listed in the brackets. They lost ALL THREE games. Including a 0-1 loss to Crown City United..a team that finished 2nd in their bracket in CSL. Almost forgot..(not really...just trying to make it suspenseful)...wait for it...CCU is a SILVER ELITE team!!
> So please tell me again who DPL is on par with.......
> Where's the crickets emoji when I need it?!?!


At least the LAGSD team went out to compete.  That is one important life lesson that we want our player to learn through competitive sports.

Other than Legends, who can produce DPL teams that can make it to National Cup semi-finals, most clubs don’t appear to have the depth to form high-level DPL teams.  Credit LAGSD for trying.

I know of another club that was not able to form a 2002 DPL team that recruited a Silver/Flight 2 level team in to be their DPL team.  The families were lured by the promise of playing at “the highest level.”  If you ignore CRL, National Cup and open showcase results, you might just be able to maintain this belief.  

I am not sure what life lesions are being taught by doing so, but it is what it is.  Good luck to everyone.


----------



## SoccerFan (Jul 2, 2018)

Fact said:


> 03 A team players will be playing on the 02/03 combo team. Sorry but it the truth.


There will be talent playing on the 03 Pilot, a fact! We can come back to this discussion as the season evolves to prove it! Development is not about teams!


----------



## espola (Jul 2, 2018)

Dummy said:


> I am not sure what life lesions are being taught by doing so, but it is what it is.


Delightful malaprop.


----------



## pewpew (Jul 2, 2018)

..
Sorry. User error.


----------



## pewpew (Jul 2, 2018)

Dummy said:


> At least the LAGSD team went out to compete.  That is one important life lesson that we want our player to learn through competitive sports.
> 
> Other than Legends, who can produce DPL teams that can make it to National Cup semi-finals, most clubs don’t appear to have the depth to form high-level DPL teams.  Credit LAGSD for trying.
> 
> ...


We try to teach our kids to be true to yourself and who you are. Don't try to be something you aren't.

You just made the best argument above as to why the DPL League should never have been formed in the first place.

So basically the 02 club/team you spoke of used the business model of duping people into buying something
that was really nothing.

And the life lessons being taught are to always read the fine print. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.

And that life is full of choices. We have to live/learn from the choices we make.

(I tried to insert my answers between your paragraphs but I'm not smart enough to figure that stuff out. What can I say...I'm a DPL Dad..)
Just kidding. I'm smarter in that respect.


----------

