# Balancing a heavy school workload and high level soccer..  Reasonable  accommodation requests?



## Slow Jamin (Mar 7, 2017)

So this is our first go around with having a high-level 8th grade soccer player that is also a straight A student.  Our ultimate concern is that her present and future school workload of 2-6 hours of nightly assignments necessary to maintain her straight A's will ultimately lead to sleep deprivation (it is not unusual for her to be up past 11:30/12 at night with a 6 AM wakeup time) and thus make her more prone to injuries and/or burnout.  I am considering approaching her teachers to extend the deadlines of her assignments and/or complain about the amount of work that is assigned.  Is this normal and just a bitter pill that she will need to swallow or are there other measures that can be taken to have the best of both worlds - straight A's,  energy for soccer training, and 7+ hours of sleep nightly?  In order for her to be as efficient with her time as possible, I am already picking her up from school and having her complete her assignments at the kitchen table while eating and removing the smartphone from her room. She is also devoting 15-20 hours on weekends to school  as well.  If I may ask those who gone down this road before, how did you make it work for your kid when they had a crazy heavy school workload?  Homeschooling, have them take easier classes, etc?


----------



## JJP (Mar 7, 2017)

What kind of answer do you expect to receive?  You already know it's unsustainable for any kid to get that little sleep and function.  Somethings gotta give, grades or sport.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Mar 7, 2017)

Burnout will take into effect soon. I am almost in a similar situation with my 8th grade child.  I am actually not enrolling him in any AP classes or honors programs for the first year of high school.     I think that you need to determine what is your child's goal with school and soccer: 
1. Academy soccer that could lead into playing in college
2. Graduate with honors to potentially obtain a small scholarship and attend a top university
3.  Have fun in school while playing high school soccer and taking a couple of advanced classes

To me I want my kids to be kids and have fun.   Once they get into college, they will be on their own and will have a full schedule between school and work.


----------



## timbuck (Mar 7, 2017)

On the low end (2 hours per night x 5 nights and 15 hours on the weekend) she is putting in 25 hours a week for homework.  On the high end (6 hours x 5 nights and 20 hours on weekends) she is putting in 50 hours per week on homework.   Plus she's in school for 30 hours a week.  
A 55 to 80 workweek is very intense for someone making a very good living.  That much for a 13 year seems super hardcore. What does she want to be "when she grows up?"
Then layer in another 15-20 hours of soccer.  
This is an impressive schedule. 
As stated by other posters, something's gotta give.  
Why is her school load so big?   Advanced school? Advanced classes?  Extra credit?  Does she need to study extra to get the grades she wants? That seems like a lot of work for most 8th grade students.  (I have a 6th grade kid  that has to put in extra work just to get a B.  But not to this level.). 
Where does this pressure come from?


----------



## Daniel Miller (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> So this is our first go around with having a high-level 8th grade soccer player that is also a straight A student.  Our ultimate concern is that her present and future school workload of 2-6 hours of nightly assignments necessary to maintain her straight A's will ultimately lead to sleep deprivation (it is not unusual for her to be up past 11:30/12 at night with a 6 AM wakeup time) and thus make her more prone to injuries and/or burnout.  I am considering approaching her teachers to extend the deadlines of her assignments and/or complain about the amount of work that is assigned.  Is this normal and just a bitter pill that she will need to swallow or are there other measures that can be taken to have the best of both worlds - straight A's,  energy for soccer training, and 7+ hours of sleep nightly?  In order for her to be as efficient with her time as possible, I am already picking her up from school and having her complete her assignments at the kitchen table while eating and removing the smartphone from her room. She is also devoting 15-20 hours on weekends to school  as well.  If I may ask those who gone down this road before, how did you make it work for your kid when they had a crazy heavy school workload?  Homeschooling, have them take easier classes, etc?


My suggestions:

1.  If you have to ask either her teachers or her soccer coach to make reasonable accomodations, ask the soccer coach.  If you have to choose between soccer and school, choose school.  Step back and think about this.  The chances of her going to a PAC 12 college on scholarship are pretty low.  Perhaps 50 girls from all over the world get that chance each year.  To get there, she not only has to be among the best of the best, she also has to avoid injury and continue loving and training during the next 5 friggin' years.  If she makes it through college and makes a career as a professional soccer player, she will earn about $50,000 per year.

2.  Starting in 8th grade, she can start learning and practicing the PSAT 8/9, continue taking solid courses, do well on her SATs, and probably earn a merit scholarship to any PAC 12 school.  This is nearly guaranteed.  If she studies any of the sciences or engineering, she is guaranteed a 6-figure job within a few years of graduation.  Again, guaranteed.

3.  Your real problem, as I see it, is the amount of time she spends studying.  I have a disabled son who is in 7th grade.  He doesn't play sports, and doing paperwork and ordinary class functions is difficult for him and takes a lot more time than for others.  So we have similar issues; how do you find time for the courseload?  Here is what I did.  For notetaking and general coursework I bought an OfficePro laptop.  He can write his notes directly onto the screen, and the program edits the notes into typewritten form.  For most of his assignments, where he has to write summaries, or do definitions, or take Cornell Notes, or whatever it is, we have forced him to learn how to use word-processing programs and dictation programs.  So basically, all he has to do is set the page up (we often create tables), and then dictate his responses into the computer.  It took months for him to get the hang of it, but now it cuts his homework time in half.  And the finished product is eminently more readable and editable.  The only place where we still use hand-and-pencil work is math.

Good luck to you and yours.


----------



## Daniel Miller (Mar 7, 2017)

Note:  SurfacePro4, not OfficePro.


----------



## CaliKlines (Mar 7, 2017)

My junior in high school completes much of her homework during school hours. She has a 3.9 unweighted GPA with numerous honors ands AP classes. Maybe our school district is unusual, but she has time at the end of class, during lunch, and before the next class starts. (In addition to the approximately 2 hours at home each night Mon-Thurs, which is also done sometimes in a group setting at a local Starbucks...socialization + scholarship.)

I have also heard rumors about our DA club providing a study hall with tutors before practice begins. With only 1 game per weekend, there will be additional opportunities for studying on Sat and Sun.


----------



## Grace T. (Mar 7, 2017)

I see this a lot with the kids I interview to get into my Ivy.  Sleep deprivation is a major issue.  If a very high level college is your kids goal (e.g. top 20), it gets that way, particularly by junior year and they are carrying all those AP classes.  On top of that, the high level schools expect your kid to do some charity work and have an active social life.

Also, it's a myth that most (not all) top 20 schools are just looking for well rounded individuals.  They are looking mostly for people that are passionate about something, and ideally will carry that passion forward.  So unless your kid is going to continue to play in college, and soccer is their "hook" on which to carry their application (and on which their application will rise and fall) it's ultimately not that important.

SoccerFan4Life gives a good breakdown.  Right on the mark.


----------



## mirage (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> ......8th grade soccer player that is also a straight A student.  Our ultimate concern is that her present and future school workload of 2-6 hours of nightly assignments necessary to maintain her straight A's


Since this is your first, the very first thing you need to know (I'm sure you do) is that each kid has different learning speed and style. Nothing to say about how smart a kid is or is not.  Its just that some kids require longer time to work things out in their head to comprehend and synthesize the information.

That said, high school will be a noticeable step up, in terms of subject complexity, than middle school.  Realizing that she's probably taking advanced HS level course already, what changes is that every class is more complex - not just ones that she excels in.

In a few words, kids ability to achieve or maintain A's will ultimately depends on the motivation of the child, couple with learning abilities, regardless of other activities. 

Examples from other parents may ease your thinking but it really doesn't apply to your kid because each kid is unique (in terms of learning speed and the abilities).  But, there are 2 key items to think about and emphasize with your kid.  These 2 things has made my kid successful in HS.  He's a senior with only 1 B+ in AP Chem since 6th grade. The rest are all A's (including all other AP classes) and for the most of his HS years, practiced 4xWeek and games on weekends year around.  His unweighted GPA is 3.95 and weighted is 4.4.

1) time management - how does she spend her time throughout the day?  You'd be surprised how effective 15 minutes here and 30 minutes there are.  My kid prioritizes HW with easier ones 1st that he can get it done quickly.  Those he does during lunch, idle time in classes and during "tutorial" (study period during the day ~20 minutes).  Harder material is done immediately after school before practices. If not done by then, clearly after but usually by getting up earlier in AM than staying up later because he's fresher in the morning (tired after practice and not as efficient). He's in bed usually by 10pm and up at 6am, getting 8hrs.  

2) motivation -make sure that the kid is doing it for herself (both school and sports). You won't have to remind or nag about school work or field performance, if the player is motivated.  No need to constantly ask but recognize signs and chat periodically.  Usual key signs are crappy practices or lack of pride in her school work.  There are many reasons for these to occur but if its staring to set a trend, then you probably want to chat....



Slow Jamin said:


> ..........I am considering approaching her teachers to extend the deadlines ........If I may ask those who gone down this road before, how did you make it work for your kid........


Sorry in advance and is blunt.  If you have to ask, then you can't handle it.  Plenty of kids get it done.


----------



## ThtGoaldnKeeper (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> So this is our first go around with having a high-level 8th grade soccer player that is also a straight A student.  Our ultimate concern is that her present and future school workload of 2-6 hours of nightly assignments necessary to maintain her straight A's will ultimately lead to sleep deprivation (it is not unusual for her to be up past 11:30/12 at night with a 6 AM wakeup time) and thus make her more prone to injuries and/or burnout.  I am considering approaching her teachers to extend the deadlines of her assignments and/or complain about the amount of work that is assigned.  Is this normal and just a bitter pill that she will need to swallow or are there other measures that can be taken to have the best of both worlds - straight A's,  energy for soccer training, and 7+ hours of sleep nightly?  In order for her to be as efficient with her time as possible, I am already picking her up from school and having her complete her assignments at the kitchen table while eating and removing the smartphone from her room. She is also devoting 15-20 hours on weekends to school  as well.  If I may ask those who gone down this road before, how did you make it work for your kid when they had a crazy heavy school workload?  Homeschooling, have them take easier classes, etc?


It's unrealistic and honestly a really bad idea to go to the teacher asking for more time, or even worse complaining about the work load. Your daughter  understands her workload, and it sound like she must have picked it herself if she is staying up that late in 8th grade. To teachers, soccer is an extracurricular, and school should take ultimately priority. In going the teacher and asking for more time, all he/she will do is explain that to you and tell you she cannot give special treatment to a student for doing extracurriculars. It happens. Going in to high school, she will absolutely have to lighten up her load because in the end, she cannot have it all. Going into AP and some hard Honors classes, and having soccer, it will not be possible to get everything done. She will have to choose to take some easier classes if she's dedicated to soccer. If she's that high-level, the amount of time dedicated to the sport will only increase as she grows older. (I've gone through this situation, trying to have it all, and it got me a pretty bad injury as response. This is when I was only taking three APs, a zero period, and an Honors Class)
Of course, she can still take hard classes. But if she takes more than 3, especially after freshman year, and you still want her to get a reasonable amount of sleep, you would have to ask her to be working on hw at lunch, at the end of classes, before school, passing period, ANYTHING really to get the workload lighter. And honestly, this is something you can't push on her and should be a decision she makes on her own. Pushing her to take harder and harder classes shouldn't be your decision. It has to be hers because one thing a lot of parents don't realize is how hard it is. 
I'm currently in the same predicament, so let me just ask you:
1) How important is soccer and her path to college reliant on soccer?
2) How high level is she and how much time will go to soccer?
3) Does your daughter have the mindset to be able to sacrifice time with friend and messing around at school or even outside of school to be able to work on her homework?
$) Have you ever really heard of someone getting the "best of both worlds" in anything really?


----------



## Soccer Cat (Mar 7, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> My suggestions:
> 
> 1.  If you have to ask either her teachers or her soccer coach to make reasonable accomodations, ask the soccer coach.  If you have to choose between soccer and school, choose school.  Step back and think about this.  The chances of her going to a PAC 12 college on scholarship are pretty low.  Perhaps 50 girls from all over the world get that chance each year.  To get there, she not only has to be among the best of the best, she also has to avoid injury and continue loving and training during the next 5 friggin' years.  If she makes it through college and makes a career as a professional soccer player, she will earn about $50,000 per year.
> 
> ...


What he said!
School and grades first!  The odds she will make a good living as a soccer player are way high, like winning the lottery.  Do the research.  I'm all for supporting my daughter chasing her soccer dreams, but she knows school comes first.  I feel like helping your kid keep things in perspective is a parents job, because at that age they don't realize a lot of things.

Best of luck !  There will be many more challenges ahead...


----------



## Slow Jamin (Mar 7, 2017)

timbuck said:


> On the low end (2 hours per night x 5 nights and 15 hours on the weekend) she is putting in 25 hours a week for homework.  On the high end (6 hours x 5 nights and 20 hours on weekends) she is putting in 50 hours per week on homework.   Plus she's in school for 30 hours a week.
> A 55 to 80 workweek is very intense for someone making a very good living.  That much for a 13 year seems super hardcore. What does she want to be "when she grows up?"
> Then layer in another 15-20 hours of soccer.
> This is an impressive schedule.
> ...


Her school load is so big mainly due to 1 or 2 teachers that assign her sizeable projects with ultra short time deadlines + regular schoolwork.  Combine that with our DD's  high standards for the quality of her work and attention to detail = crazy manhours devoted by an 8th grader.  She is taking advanced classes but she does 0 extra credit work.  The pressure comes from Mom's cultural upbringing (Tiger Mom).


----------



## Slow Jamin (Mar 7, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> My suggestions:
> 
> 1.  If you have to ask either her teachers or her soccer coach to make reasonable accomodations, ask the soccer coach.  If you have to choose between soccer and school, choose school.  Step back and think about this.  The chances of her going to a PAC 12 college on scholarship are pretty low.  Perhaps 50 girls from all over the world get that chance each year.  To get there, she not only has to be among the best of the best, she also has to avoid injury and continue loving and training during the next 5 friggin' years.  If she makes it through college and makes a career as a professional soccer player, she will earn about $50,000 per year.
> 
> ...



Great feedback Daniel.  I never thought about her dictating her word processing to improve her operational efficiency.  I will recommend that she utilize this best practice.  I am confident that this will shave off a few man-hours as well.  Thank you!


----------



## Slow Jamin (Mar 7, 2017)

mirage said:


> Since this is your first, the very first thing you need to know (I'm sure you do) is that each kid has different learning speed and style. Nothing to say about how smart a kid is or is not.  Its just that some kids require longer time to work things out in their head to comprehend and synthesize the information.
> 
> That said, high school will be a noticeable step up, in terms of subject complexity, than middle school.  Realizing that she's probably taking advanced HS level course already, what changes is that every class is more complex - not just ones that she excels in.
> 
> ...


Great feedback.  Motivation for both is high.  But yes, she could probably be more efficient if she worked on assignments during her lunch break instead of socializing, etc.  Congrats on your son's scholastic achievements while balancing soccer.  Impressive!


----------



## soccerobserver (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jam...we have been through this also...both of my parents were teachers and my kids have done well academically...If an 8th grader is spending 6 hours on a night doing homework then something is not right...either there was major procrastination on a long-term project now due or there may be comprehension issues...or possibly you might be over estimating...also what does taking away the smart phone teach her???... she has to learn to manage that also...that's how the kids stay connected...some kids do facetime/group study or ask for help on problems via group chats...


----------



## Slow Jamin (Mar 7, 2017)

ThtGoaldnKeeper said:


> It's unrealistic and honestly a really bad idea to go to the teacher asking for more time, or even worse complaining about the work load. Your daughter  understands her workload, and it sound like she must have picked it herself if she is staying up that late in 8th grade. To teachers, soccer is an extracurricular, and school should take ultimately priority. In going the teacher and asking for more time, all he/she will do is explain that to you and tell you she cannot give special treatment to a student for doing extracurriculars. It happens. Going in to high school, she will absolutely have to lighten up her load because in the end, she cannot have it all. Going into AP and some hard Honors classes, and having soccer, it will not be possible to get everything done. She will have to choose to take some easier classes if she's dedicated to soccer. If she's that high-level, the amount of time dedicated to the sport will only increase as she grows older. (I've gone through this situation, trying to have it all, and it got me a pretty bad injury as response. This is when I was only taking three APs, a zero period, and an Honors Class)
> Of course, she can still take hard classes. But if she takes more than 3, especially after freshman year, and you still want her to get a reasonable amount of sleep, you would have to ask her to be working on hw at lunch, at the end of classes, before school, passing period, ANYTHING really to get the workload lighter. And honestly, this is something you can't push on her and should be a decision she makes on her own. Pushing her to take harder and harder classes shouldn't be your decision. It has to be hers because one thing a lot of parents don't realize is how hard it is.
> I'm currently in the same predicament, so let me just ask you:
> 1) How important is soccer and her path to college reliant on soccer?
> ...


I neglected to mention that the majority of her classmates are unable to complete their assignments on time as well from 1 teacher in particular who seems to be totally unrealistic with her time deadlines relative to the workload that she assigns. 
To answer your questions:
1.  Soccer is highly important.  It is her only social outlet.  It is her goal to play for a Pac 12 or a SEC school. 
2.  ECNL - 10-15 hours weekly including commuting. 
3.  Maybe she could devote more time at school to coursework?  But she is very focussed outside of school and eliminates distractions pretty well.
4.  We are already dissuading her from taking AP/Honors courses at her future high school to allow her time for soccer and sleep.  



ThtGoaldnKeeper said:


> It's unrealistic and honestly a really bad idea to go to the teacher asking for more time, or even worse complaining about the work load. Your daughter  understands her workload, and it sound like she must have picked it herself if she is staying up that late in 8th grade. To teachers, soccer is an extracurricular, and school should take ultimately priority. In going the teacher and asking for more time, all he/she will do is explain that to you and tell you she cannot give special treatment to a student for doing extracurriculars. It happens. Going in to high school, she will absolutely have to lighten up her load because in the end, she cannot have it all. Going into AP and some hard Honors classes, and having soccer, it will not be possible to get everything done. She will have to choose to take some easier classes if she's dedicated to soccer. If she's that high-level, the amount of time dedicated to the sport will only increase as she grows older. (I've gone through this situation, trying to have it all, and it got me a pretty bad injury as response. This is when I was only taking three APs, a zero period, and an Honors Class)
> Of course, she can still take hard classes. But if she takes more than 3, especially after freshman year, and you still want her to get a reasonable amount of sleep, you would have to ask her to be working on hw at lunch, at the end of classes, before school, passing period, ANYTHING really to get the workload lighter. And honestly, this is something you can't push on her and should be a decision she makes on her own. Pushing her to take harder and harder classes shouldn't be your decision. It has to be hers because one thing a lot of parents don't realize is how hard it is.
> I'm currently in the same predicament, so let me just ask you:
> 1) How important is soccer and her path to college reliant on soccer?
> ...


----------



## Slow Jamin (Mar 7, 2017)

soccerobserver said:


> Slow Jam...we have been through this also...both of my parents were teachers and my kids have done well academically...If an 8th grader is spending 6 hours on a night doing homework then something is not right...either there was major procrastination on a long-term project now due or there may be comprehension issues...or possibly you might be over estimating...also what does taking away the smart phone teach her???... she has to learn to manage that also...that's how the kids stay connected...some kids do facetime/group study or ask for help on problems via group chats...


Yes 6 hours is on the extreme end.  It is not a daily occurrence.  IMHO, the problem is what typically should be a long term project is due in a short duration of time (days not weeks) .  And those extreme man hours on the weekend were allocated to the same projects to prevent procrastination.  It seems like 1 teacher is going pretty extreme with her expectations.  The rest seem to have the normal expectations of their students.


----------



## gkrent (Mar 7, 2017)

I found that there was way too much homework in middle school and my DD's workloads actually improved in high school


----------



## Grace T. (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> Yes 6 hours is on the extreme end.  It is not a daily occurrence.  IMHO, the problem is what typically should be a long term project is due in a short duration of time (days not weeks) .  And those extreme man hours on the weekend were allocated to the same projects to prevent procrastination.  It seems like 1 teacher is going pretty extreme with her expectations.  The rest seem to have the normal expectations of their students.


It seems pretty clear from your answers that soccer is the priority since that is the route she is going to college on.  It also does sound like there might be an issue with one teacher (though you did say in the OP you were going to approach teachers).  Re the one, you might have a quiet word with the PTA President and try to get the other parents on board, but confronting the teacher directly is unlikely to get you anywhere and going to the administration will likely make the teacher hostile to your child.  As in the work place, different teachers have different philosophies-- you have to be ready for them all.  This teacher (since it's 8th grade) is likely a wheat from the chaff type teacher that looks to be getting the kids ready for high school, particularly the high performers.  If soccer really is the priority, maybe something has got to give...maybe a B from this teacher really isn't so bad....maybe spending all the extra hours to make sure everything is diligently done isn't worth it.  You child is going to have to learn to prioritize along the way.  Worst case, it's already March and high school is around the corner..as you say, though, you probably don't want her doing the higher AP level route


----------



## ThtGoaldnKeeper (Mar 7, 2017)

Or you could accept and explain to her that in APs, a B is not bad and counts as an A GPA wise. It still looks good, and you can challenge her without pushing herself to the max to get an A in that class.


----------



## mirage (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> Yes 6 hours is on the extreme end.  It is not a daily occurrence.  IMHO, the problem is what typically should be a long term project is due in a short duration of time (days not weeks) .  And those extreme man hours on the weekend were allocated to the same projects to prevent procrastination.  It seems like 1 teacher is going pretty extreme with her expectations.  The rest seem to have the normal expectations of their students.


Just curious.  At what age/grade is it appropriate for any student to deal with short timeframe project/assignment?  Based on your description, having weeks instead of days is what you're calling "unreasonable expectations"? (along with the work the goes with that)

Typically, what I've seen (3 kids) over the years is that so called multi weeks projects are waste of time as NO kids starts them early.  Most often, there is a spike of activities about a week (or day or two before...) before its due.  In some instances, the teacher has kids work on the project components during the weeks leading up to submittal.  In other words, no one element is beyond reasonableness.

My sense is, after reading few of your replies herein, that this is the first teacher your kid has had that increased expectations in a step, rather than a gradual increase of  workload.  Also, isn't dealing with this sort of change part of growing up in an educational context? 

In any case, this particular problem sounds temporary, as you've indicated that its one teacher, so your issue is much more focused and is about getting through this semester.  For that, I recommend doing nothing different and learn to get through it.  If it happens again, the next time, your kid will be much more able to handle it having gone through it now.


----------



## jrcaesar (Mar 7, 2017)

Just want to +1 this point @ThtGoaldnKeeper made:


ThtGoaldnKeeper said:


> *And honestly, this is something you can't push on her and should be a decision she makes on her own. Pushing her to take harder and harder classes shouldn't be your decision. It has to be hers because one thing a lot of parents don't realize is how hard it is.*[/QUOTE]


----------



## Mystery Train (Mar 7, 2017)

gkrent said:


> I found that there was way too much homework in middle school and my DD's workloads actually improved in high school


gkrent beat me to the punch.  Middle school (8th grade especially) is the absolute worst as far as workloads go.  Not sure exactly why that is, but we saw this with both our older daughters.  It is a little better in freshman year of HS, and then it keeps getting easier each year after that.   So there is light at the end of the tunnel.  That being said, the estimates of time spent on school work in the original post do sound unusually high.


----------



## GKDad65 (Mar 7, 2017)

"...having a high-level 8th grade soccer player...", your kidding yourself.
School and grades first, have fun with sports second.

Don't get wrapped p in this "high level" youth soccer nonsense.
In a few years you'll be laughing at yourself for all the drama that we get into
over this business.

I'm guilty.


----------



## Stand Your Ground (Mar 7, 2017)

Many school districts have a waiver that will exempt students from PE if they are already training a certain amount of time per week. Some school districts will also allow students to opt out of electives. You might want to look into this as it would shorten your child's school day and allow them more time to do homework before practice. My son will be entering his first year of DA this year and this is something I absolutely will be considering doing when he reaches junior high.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> Her school load is so big mainly due to 1 or 2 teachers that assign her sizeable projects with ultra short time deadlines + regular schoolwork.  Combine that with our DD's  high standards for the quality of her work and attention to detail = crazy manhours devoted by an 8th grader.  She is taking advanced classes but she does 0 extra credit work.  The pressure comes from Mom's cultural upbringing (Tiger Mom).



I've got to be honest with you if you are looking for a silver bullet there isn't one.  My player had over a 4.6 GPA in high school, did IB and AP and came into college with 40+ credits and has continued the same grades in college. In addition she played ECNL, ODP and multiple YNT trips.  In order to do all those things she had to learn to prioritize school then soccer and things like rest and social activities had to become scheduled activities.  

It's all about the kid and your level of expectations.  Prioritize school as it makes the good player look great, the great player look amazing, and the amazing player a unicorn.  My player had and continues to have many late nights.  It has been a positive as she is mature beyond her years when it comes to time management and saying no to peers due to prior commitments.  There is plenty of time in the day for a child to have it all.  Let them go for it if they want it.  If they are starting to get burned let them cut back on an activity.

My player would always get overwhelmed during the spring with track, soccer, AP tests and teenage stuff.  I let her cut back and take one less class during the spring.  It's not easy and one of the reasons that high level club soccer girls are so amazing.  Listen to your player.  Ask her how she feels.  Take steps if she is starting to crack.  Most of all don't be afraid to let her push herself.  Our delicate flowers are a lot tougher than we think.

Great topic.  This is a tough journey.  Good luck to you and yours.


----------



## Grace T. (Mar 7, 2017)

Mystery Train said:


> gkrent beat me to the punch.  Middle school (8th grade especially) is the absolute worst as far as workloads go.  Not sure exactly why that is, but we saw this with both our older daughters.  It is a little better in freshman year of HS, and then it keeps getting easier each year after that.   So there is light at the end of the tunnel.  That being said, the estimates of time spent on school work in the original post do sound unusually high.


It's in part because the kids haven't gone on separate tracks yet, so the teachers need to teach to the higher end of the scale and get the AP kids ready for AP.  For kids carrying 4 APs in a semester their junior year, it doesn't really level off.


----------



## gkrent (Mar 7, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> It's in part because the kids haven't gone on separate tracks yet, so the teachers need to teach to the higher end of the scale and get the AP kids ready for AP.  For kids carrying 4 APs in a semester their junior year, it doesn't really level off.


Well, my DD felt it did.  And she's going into college with almost 30 credits.  I'm sure if you kid is really STEMy and taking AP CALC BC and AP Physics at the same time they are going to feel the heat; but if they are that kind of kid they almost certainly have better than average time management and prioritization skills.


----------



## chargerfan (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> So this is our first go around with having a high-level 8th grade soccer player that is also a straight A student.  Our ultimate concern is that her present and future school workload of 2-6 hours of nightly assignments necessary to maintain her straight A's will ultimately lead to sleep deprivation (it is not unusual for her to be up past 11:30/12 at night with a 6 AM wakeup time) and thus make her more prone to injuries and/or burnout.  I am considering approaching her teachers to extend the deadlines of her assignments and/or complain about the amount of work that is assigned.  Is this normal and just a bitter pill that she will need to swallow or are there other measures that can be taken to have the best of both worlds - straight A's,  energy for soccer training, and 7+ hours of sleep nightly?  In order for her to be as efficient with her time as possible, I am already picking her up from school and having her complete her assignments at the kitchen table while eating and removing the smartphone from her room. She is also devoting 15-20 hours on weekends to school  as well.  If I may ask those who gone down this road before, how did you make it work for your kid when they had a crazy heavy school workload?  Homeschooling, have them take easier classes, etc?


Cut down on the soccer. Obviously they have too many extracurriculars if they can't fit in 9-10 hours of sleep a night. That sounds miserable for the child, and like a one-way ticket to serious anxiety and burn out.


----------



## Soccer Cat (Mar 7, 2017)

Stand Your Ground said:


> Many school districts have a waiver that will exempt students from PE if they are already training a certain amount of time per week. Some school districts will also allow students to opt out of electives. You might want to look into this as it would shorten your child's school day and allow them more time to do homework before practice. My son will be entering his first year of DA this year and this is something I absolutely will be considering doing when he reaches junior high.


I asked about this for my daughter and there are only a few sports that they "count" and soccer was NOT one of them (gymnastics, and some others were)  I'm in San Diego County so it may vary.  They told me the standards are set by the state.  I couldn't believe how ridiculous they are.

My kid actually loves PE, but would push herself during runs etc and of course they don't warm up or cool down properly, so it led to some issues.  I wish they were a little more liberal with letting kids out of PE that train several days a week in a sport.  Sometimes its just too much.


----------



## sandshark (Mar 7, 2017)

I myself find it very disturbing that you have to actually ask the question..soccer or school.. WHAT!!? Soccer is a sport, not real life. Most of the big money making machines (clubs) shove the college soccer dreams down your throat! Girls youth soccer is literally the biggest scam going in the history of youth sports. We have been there and done this, soccer scholarships are very hard to come by compared to academic scholarships. And if you find a college soccer family or a club soccer coach that will give it to you straight they will tell you (WARN YOU) majority of any kind of scholarships are based mostly on their academics with a small amount given for Women's soccer. The number of clubs and players at the "higher level" that actually are realizing any real monetary value compared to the money spent playing club soccer is almost comical..almost. So if your actually doing this sport for the 'free ride" think again!


----------



## Grace T. (Mar 7, 2017)

sandshark said:


> We have been there and done this, soccer scholarships are very hard to come by compared to academic scholarships. And if you find a college soccer family or a club soccer coach that will give it to you straight they will tell you (WARN YOU) majority of any kind of scholarships are based mostly on their academics with a small amount given for Women's soccer. The number of clubs and players at the "higher level" that actually are realizing any real monetary value compared to the money spent playing club soccer is almost comical..almost. So if your actually doing this sport for the 'free ride" think again!


Academic scholarships aren't really free flowing either. Most scholarships are either award (e.g. Beauty pageants, science competitions, spelling bees, DAR essays) based, need based government grants or preference based (minorities, first gen college).  Academic scholarships are ways lower tiers colleges can woo away higher stat students from higher level colleges.  My goddaughter for instance had to pay full freight to my ivy but was offered nearly a free pass to dad's alma matter UCSD.


----------



## mirage (Mar 7, 2017)

Recommend people look at soccer/sports as one of key differentiator (if recruited).

Rather than looking at it as scholarship/full/majority ride mentality, more appropriate way to view it is:

"if soccer opens the door and gets you into an institution that otherwise you would not have had the opportunity to goto, then its been all worth it."

Any financial offset is a windfall and not the primary objective.


----------



## mahrez (Mar 7, 2017)

Helping young adults or teens find the right mix that works for them can be tricky.  Many Teens are not getting as much rest/sleep as they should.
http://www.nationwidechildrens.org/sleep-in-adolescents
"Adolescents are notorious for not *getting enough sleep*. The average amount of *sleep* that *teenagers get* is between 7 and 7 ¼ hours. However, they need between 9 and 9 ½ hours (studies show that most *teenagers *need exactly 9 ¼ hours of *sleep*)."

That aside the amount of "screen" time they have with electronic devices is another concern.

There is a lot more beyond sports and academics work: social, Civic, and jobs for adolescents.  How can they do all things at the "highest" level,  or course they can't. How many of those or even beyond one of those can they devote the attention and dedication required to reach those levels?

Let's say top is 10-15% (gold), 1% (Platinum), .5% (Plutonium), .1% (Diamond). 

There might be some who think their kid is a diamond soccer player and Gold level academically but beyond that I doubt they other areas are in top range, you can't be all things to all people, choices and prioritization are the only way.

Being well rounded is a problem we have W/ some adolescents nowadays,  they are too narrowly focused on the small picture and tend to forget the Bigger ones.  I'm fine with a silver level sports player who is also at that level with everything else rather than a diamond player who is basically dirt in some of other things that are important but everybody is different so they have to find there own ways.

My kids have/had a lot of friends with tiger type mom's with very stressful parent relationships.  They are well meaning no doubt, but giving kid's freedom to go there own way, make there choices, learn from their own mistakes is something they will thank you for later.


----------



## Slow Jamin (Mar 7, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> It seems pretty clear from your answers that soccer is the priority since that is the route she is going to college on.  It also does sound like there might be an issue with one teacher (though you did say in the OP you were going to approach teachers).  Re the one, you might have a quiet word with the PTA President and try to get the other parents on board, but confronting the teacher directly is unlikely to get you anywhere and going to the administration will likely make the teacher hostile to your child.  As in the work place, different teachers have different philosophies-- you have to be ready for them all.  This teacher (since it's 8th grade) is likely a wheat from the chaff type teacher that looks to be getting the kids ready for high school, particularly the high performers.  If soccer really is the priority, maybe something has got to give...maybe a B from this teacher really isn't so bad....maybe spending all the extra hours to make sure everything is diligently done isn't worth it.  You child is going to have to learn to prioritize along the way.  Worst case, it's already March and high school is around the corner..as you say, though, you probably don't want her doing the higher AP level route


Yes.  It is most likely coming down to 1 teacher that is looking to get the high performers ready for high school.  I just feel that it is excessive when the kid has literally stayed up until 3 AM to complete a project that was assigned on the same day.  But hey,  life is not easy, the kid needs to adapt, and I guess I need to keep my mouth shut.


----------



## chargerfan (Mar 7, 2017)

mahrez said:


> Helping young adults or teens find the right mix that works for them can be tricky.  Many Teens are not getting as much rest/sleep as they should.
> http://www.nationwidechildrens.org/sleep-in-adolescents
> "Adolescents are notorious for not *getting enough sleep*. The average amount of *sleep* that *teenagers get* is between 7 and 7 ¼ hours. However, they need between 9 and 9 ½ hours (studies show that most *teenagers *need exactly 9 ¼ hours of *sleep*)."
> 
> ...


I agree with this. Mommy and Daddy won't be in college with them looking over their shoulder, so they need the freedom to make, and learn from, their mistakes now. I also grew up with an overbearing father, and know well how that can mess you up for life. Is it the end of the world if she makes a B in 8th grade, in order to get some sleep at night? Or find a soccer club closer to home? It seems like this would lessen the stress and anxiety that I am not quite sure an 8th grader should have. That's what adulthood is for!


----------



## Slow Jamin (Mar 7, 2017)

mirage said:


> Just curious.  At what age/grade is it appropriate for any student to deal with short timeframe project/assignment?  Based on your description, having weeks instead of days is what you're calling "unreasonable expectations"? (along with the work the goes with that)
> 
> Typically, what I've seen (3 kids) over the years is that so called multi weeks projects are waste of time as NO kids starts them early.  Most often, there is a spike of activities about a week (or day or two before...) before its due.  In some instances, the teacher has kids work on the project components during the weeks leading up to submittal.  In other words, no one element is beyond reasonableness.
> 
> ...


I agree with the points that you make if these were normal circumstances.  IMHO, under normal circumstances, the majority kids are able to complete their assignments on time - whatever quality of work they hand in.  The reality of this particular situation is that the majority of her classmates (it's an advanced class) basically give up, and don't get their assignments done on time at all.  While she is going the extra mile to complete her assignments.  It's definitely building character.  We are learning that this is part of the process.


----------



## chargerfan (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> Yes.  It is most likely coming down to 1 teacher that is looking to get the high performers ready for high school.  I just feel that it is excessive when the kid has literally stayed up until 3 AM to complete a project that was assigned on the same day.  But hey,  life is not easy, the kid needs to adapt, and I guess I need to keep my mouth shut.


Sorry, but something sounds off to me. Is it taking your daughter 12 hours or so to do a project that was assigned that day, and due the next day? Either that teacher is insane, and you should have a talk with the principal, or she might need to modify her work habits.


----------



## Grace T. (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> Yes.  It is most likely coming down to 1 teacher that is looking to get the high performers ready for high school.  I just feel that it is excessive when the kid has literally stayed up until 3 AM to complete a project that was assigned on the same day.


It's interesting how competition is affecting both soccer and academics and this generation (Gen. Z.) is getting much more of it than either the Xers of the Millenials did....it's all that tiger parenting.  The issue is the teacher seems to be catering to the high performers who are themselves competing for ever shrinking slots (because of international competition) in the top 20 schools.  My kids are still in elementary, but even among them, we see the lengths that some parents will go to push their high academic performers-- many of them send their already high performing kids to Kumon or Chinese Learning Center to get extra academic "touches on the ball" in addition to the high homework demands our private elementary school already puts on the kids.  Similarly, in club soccer (my eldest's rookie year) we see parents that have the private coaches, development academies, and summer camp.  As a result, kids begin to fall behind because others, whether in academics or sports, have all those additional "touches on the ball".  Would it be great to just let kids be kids?  Absolutely.  Have we put too much pressure and competition on kids, ever younger and younger?  Maybe.  But one thing is pretty certain: there is an arm's race out there, both in sports and in the classroom, and the highest performers are being pushed to ever greater limits.


----------



## Slow Jamin (Mar 7, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> I agree with this. Mommy and Daddy won't be in college with them looking over their shoulder, so they need the freedom to make, and learn from, their mistakes now. I also grew up with an overbearing father, and know well how that can mess you up for life. Is it the end of the world if she makes a B in 8th grade, in order to get some sleep at night? Or find a soccer club closer to home? It seems like this would lessen the stress and anxiety that I am not quite sure an 8th grader should have. That's what adulthood is for!


I agree 100% with taking the B and getting the much needed sleep.  I recommended this approach to a couple projects that required crazy manhours but she refused as she was raised with the Asian Tiger Mom cultural approach to school.  We are fortunate that soccer is very close to the home.


----------



## Slow Jamin (Mar 7, 2017)

chargerfan said:


> Sorry, but something sounds off to me. Is it taking your daughter 12 hours or so to do a project that was assigned that day, and due the next day? Either that teacher is insane, and you should have a talk with the principal, or she might need to modify her work habits.


Yes, it has occurred that the teacher has assigned what should be multi-day projects and required her kids to have them in by the next morning.  I do feel that the teacher is insane.   For example, she arrived home from school at 4 PM.  Worked on the new assignment for 2 hours, went to training at 6 PM and returned to working on the same assignment at 8:35 until 3 AM to complete it in on time.  According to her, the majority of her classmates were unable to complete the assignment because of the excessive time demands of the assignment.


----------



## Grace T. (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> Yes, it has occurred that the teacher has assigned what should be multi-day projects and required her kids to have them in by the next morning.  I do feel that the teacher is insane.   For example, she arrived home from school at 4 PM.  Worked on the new assignment for 2 hours, went to training at 6 PM and returned to working on the same assignment at 8:35 until 3 AM to complete it in on time.  According to her, the majority of her classmates were unable to complete the assignment because of the excessive time demands of the assignment.


Might very well be insane but (if not necessarily the majority) it also isn't unheard of in advanced academic classes.  As I mentioned, as a college interviewer for an Ivy, I hear these stories day in and day out from virtually all the students I interview that come from high performing schools (both public and private).  My goddaughter by 10th grade would often be working till 2am (falling asleep by the fireplace) on her homework after she got home from her sports (track), charity work and science extracurriculars.


----------



## chargerfan (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> Yes, it has occurred that the teacher has assigned what should be multi-day projects and required her kids to have them in by the next morning.  I do feel that the teacher is insane.   For example, she arrived home from school at 4 PM.  Worked on the new assignment for 2 hours, went to training at 6 PM and returned to working on the same assignment at 8:35 until 3 AM to complete it in on time.  According to her, the majority of her classmates were unable to complete the assignment because of the excessive time demands of the assignment.


My advice is to reach out to the other parents, and together go to the teacher first, then the principal. Also, I would send my child to class with half-completed assignment and a note saying I will not allow her to stay up past 9-10 for homework. Her physical and mental well being is your responsibility.


----------



## Slow Jamin (Mar 7, 2017)

Grace T. said:


> Might very well be insane but (if not necessarily the majority) it also isn't unheard of in advanced academic classes.  As I mentioned, as a college interviewer for an Ivy, I hear these stories day in and day out from virtually all the students I interview that come from high performing schools (both public and private).  My goddaughter by 10th grade would often be working till 2am (falling asleep by the fireplace) on her homework after she got home from her sports (track), charity work and science extracurriculars.


Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences with me.  I am trying to understand all perspectives regarding our challenges and how to best manage the situation.  If she were to devote herself to the absolute 100% max scholastically (taking Honor's/AP coursework at a highly challenging High School), she would probably need to drop down to recreational level soccer.  Then again, the top 20 schools would most likely be beyond our budget...?


----------



## Grace T. (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences with me.  I am trying to understand all perspectives regarding our challenges and how to best manage the situation.  If she were to devote herself to the absolute 100% max scholastically (taking Honor's/AP coursework at a highly challenging High School), she would probably need to drop down to recreational level soccer.  Then again, the top 20 schools would most likely be beyond our budget...?


You'd be surprised re the budget and top 20.  It's hard to say without knowing your finances, and it definitely will cost you, but if they admit you, most of the top 20 will try and make it work for you.  She might need to work and she and you will be in debt up the wazoo but if admitted, they will try and make it work because they want to keep their admit ratios (those kids that are offered a slot and say yes) high since it affects their rankings.

As I said, soccer isn't that important for the top 20 unless she plans to go on and play soccer there.  But she will need to do something.  That something should ideally be something she is passionate about and plans to continue on in college.  In addition, she will need to check the box on the sports, social, and charity categories (where people get the "well rounded" thing from) but she doesn't need to perform high there.  That something will also need to be something pretty impressive.  True story: I once had a guy the admit committee was really interested in.  We hit it off and went to the same high school.  He was a writer and was really passionate about it, and even brought me his novel in progress.  He had recs from his English teacher, and had done many writing academies.  We talked about all sorts of literature.  Then I got into the pro forma questions.  What is your intended major: economics.  What is your intended career: want to go to Wall Street.  Needless to say it got highlighted in my report and no doubt set off alarm bells with the admissions committee.  

However, if she is going to be applying to a soccer college and plans to play on a team, that's an entirely different route and then soccer should very well be the priority perhaps with a few honors and AP classes in her favorite fields but not necessarily the full AP load.


----------



## JJP (Mar 7, 2017)

If my kid had a teacher that regularly gave him 6 hrs of homework per night I would talk to the principal and have him drop that class, and if that's not possible, I would change his high school.

How is it even possible to study 6 hrs. for one subject?


----------



## Multi Sport (Mar 7, 2017)

Welcome to the new normal... your daughter is developing a great work ethic that will take her far in life.

 I stayed up many late nights with my DD helping her study but it payed off in the end. 

Enjoy the ride.


----------



## Grace T. (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> Th If she were to devote herself to the absolute 100% max scholastically (taking Honor's/AP coursework at a highly challenging High School), she would probably need to drop down to recreational level soccer.


p.s. for the private top 20s going to a challenging high school isn't necessarily a good thing.  There's a saying among recruiters that Harvard University could take its admits 100% from a handful of elite schools like Philips Andover on the East Coast and Harvard Westlake on the West.  There are some schools that are magnets for really high academic performers.  The problem is you are competing against all the people that go to those magnet schools for slots that are limited, because the private top 20s don't want to take everyone from the same school.  It depends on the school (not to mention the region of the country....getting into an Ivy from North Dakota is easier, for example, than from either New York or California), but you might be better off being a big fish in a smaller pond than coming from a highly competitive highly challenging high school so long as you can get the required AP courses in that smaller pond and you have that "hook" that wows the admission committee.


----------



## NoGoal (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences with me.  I am trying to understand all perspectives regarding our challenges and how to best manage the situation.  If she were to devote herself to the absolute 100% max scholastically (taking Honor's/AP coursework at a highly challenging High School), she would probably need to drop down to recreational level soccer.  Then again, the top 20 schools would most likely be beyond our budget...?


Or don't have your player play for a DA team this fall....4-5 days of club practice IMO is overkill to play college soccer.  Instead have her play for a non-DA team....Those 2-3 additional days she can devote to her academic studies, which is more important than club soccer.


----------



## mirage (Mar 7, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> Yes, it has occurred that the teacher has assigned what should be multi-day projects and required her kids to have them in by the next morning.  I do feel that the teacher is insane.   For example, she arrived home from school at 4 PM.  Worked on the new assignment for 2 hours, went to training at 6 PM and returned to working on the same assignment at 8:35 until 3 AM to complete it in on time.  According to her, the majority of her classmates were unable to complete the assignment because of the excessive time demands of the assignment.


What subject is this class???  At 8th grade, the only accelerated classes I can recall (maybe my kids school district thing...) are math, science and Spanish that resulted in HS credit.  All other so called advanced classes were just 8th grade advance classes.  Anything other than that, kids had to goto HS and take those classes at zero-th period. 

Also, you now have three pages of advices and opinions from fellow forum-dwellers.  Comments ranging from do nothing and suck it up (mine), to talk to the PTA/Principal, to soccer coach about relief.  Also change school popped up, along with acknowledgement that 8th grade had the most homework (btw, for my kid, it was in the 4th grade, relatively speaking, that had the most HW) than HS.  Thread got onto applying to top 20, and cost of private institutions as a sidebar.   And finally, your struggle with your kid may have to drop to rec from ECNL if she pursue those high academic options.

(Will note that most top 20s are well funded and their endowments allows for needs based offsets.  Income range can go into over $200k/yr and still have some type of offset, depending on the college.  Many for income less than $70K~$80K/yr gets a full ride so there is a scale for you.  Also every school has, by federal law, "online calculator" that you can guesstimate what might cost you.)

My last advice on the subject.  The thing I value the most as kids are growing up, for their future and into adulthood, is having more options available.  Each year, some of the options may go away.  What I mean by that is any decision you make today can propagate and change the outcome in the future years.  Also each year, there is the student's academic performance.  This will definitely change available options, if grades drop and as the trend is formed.  So start with end in mind and work backwards to see what it takes to get you there.

Just to be rhetorical, since you sound like someone that thinks thing through, so you probably already have thought this but.... Using your example, not doing AP classes or do the very minimal, is chosen.  Lets fast forward and its now time to apply for colleges.  Every school I know wants students that challenge themselves and not take the easy way out.  The transcript will show that the student has high GPA but really didn't challenge herself because the admissions staff knows what AP/IB/Honors classes are offered in the district or the school.  Now they'll look for "why not."  If the answer is because she played soccer and is on the national team pool, and she is recruited by the college you're applying, that's one thing.  Its a totally another thing if she's just applying.  I think you get the point.  By not doing AP, you may have eliminated desirable options and have to look for lesser alternatives, in this example.  This is the hard part about parenting and thinking it through about what the unintended consequences from earlier decisions made today will have in the future.

Good luck.


----------



## Grace T. (Mar 7, 2017)

mirage said:


> My last advice on the subject.  The thing I value the most as kids are growing up, for their future and into adulthood, is having more options available.  Each year, some of the options may go away.  What I mean by that is any decision you make today can propagate and change the outcome in the future years.  Also each year, there is the student's academic performance.  This will definitely change available options, if grades drop and as the trend is formed.  So start with end in mind and work backwards to see what it takes to get you there.
> 
> .


I wish I could "like" your post 1000xs.  It's very good advice, and you stated it far better than I ever could.  I often point out to the college kids I interview that life works that way...as you move on doors close.  And even with 2 elementary kids it's something that I've already started to struggle with.  To do club soccer, my son had to close a door....he had to drop competitive chess....he was sad about it, but there simply weren't enough hours in the day to do all the activities he wants plus keep up with academics.  Thank you for your post...you really spoke to me as well.


----------



## younothat (Mar 7, 2017)

How do you know when there is a problem?

When your own kids are afraid of you, walking on pins and needles most of the the time.  Living in fear is know way to live for young people. 

My teen kids have friends who are basically afraid of there parent reactions to anything negative.   They will hang out or basically try to hide things from them,  my spouse is a very supportive, non-judgmental, children come first type of mom that's very spiritual.   She encourages independence, freedom, free thinking, and gives guidance only when asked for the most part.   I'm more of the the order one who pushes and gives opinions more, some of the kid friends look to her  in their times of need because they can't talk it through with there own parents.   

You have to know how much to push and when to let things go there natural course.  I can push my kids even more to get better short term result in something but in the long term I'm not sure that would do them any good.  Sometimes  they/we need help from friends,mentors, tutors, private coaches, spiritual advisers  but we don't feel like that should be the new normal.   Normal should not be conformity or living up to a standard somebody else sets for you, or what everybody else is going for.  Normal should be what they make of it not what you want for them.  Trying to do too much doesn't make for happy well adjusted kids IMO, they will find there own conformable levels or not regardless


----------



## chargerfan (Mar 7, 2017)

younothat said:


> How do you know when there is a problem?
> 
> When your own kids are afraid of you, walking on pins and needles most of the the time.  Living in fear is know way to live for young people.
> 
> ...


At some point it all backfires. I have seen many kids who do very dumb things in high school rebeling against strict parents, or  in college once they are away from them. Living in fear of your parents reactions to anything negative, mixed with the intense need to please them, doesn't lead to anything good. Either they rebel like I mentioned, or they become depressed and anxiety-ridden. I don't want to make assumptions, like I'm sure yonothat didn't, but I do see a lot of tiger parenting lately and I think it's something a lot of us have to work at to keep in check.


----------



## Slow Jamin (Mar 7, 2017)

JJP said:


> If my kid had a teacher that regularly gave him 6 hrs of homework per night I would talk to the principal and have him drop that class, and if that's not possible, I would change his high school.
> 
> How is it even possible to study 6 hrs. for one subject?


Again, this is not a nightly occurrence with our DD.  It is not studying for tests and spending 6 hours.  Occasionally she will receive 6-10 page essay style assignments where she is required to read 50 pages of a book and have 1 night to get everything done.


----------



## fudbaler (Mar 9, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> So this is our first go around with having a high-level 8th grade soccer player that is also a straight A student.  Our ultimate concern is that her present and future school workload of 2-6 hours of nightly assignments necessary to maintain her straight A's will ultimately lead to sleep deprivation (it is not unusual for her to be up past 11:30/12 at night with a 6 AM wakeup time) and thus make her more prone to injuries and/or burnout.  I am considering approaching her teachers to extend the deadlines of her assignments and/or complain about the amount of work that is assigned.  Is this normal and just a bitter pill that she will need to swallow or are there other measures that can be taken to have the best of both worlds - straight A's,  energy for soccer training, and 7+ hours of sleep nightly?  In order for her to be as efficient with her time as possible, I am already picking her up from school and having her complete her assignments at the kitchen table while eating and removing the smartphone from her room. She is also devoting 15-20 hours on weekends to school  as well.  If I may ask those who gone down this road before, how did you make it work for your kid when they had a crazy heavy school workload?  Homeschooling, have them take easier classes, etc?


We viewed the priorities as follows:

1. Health/well being/social life
2. Academics
3. ECNL Club Soccer
4. HS Varsity Soccer

When the balance between these is messed up and 3. negatively impacts 1. and 2. then 3. gets the ax. And for our older 3. started messing with 1. and then 2. so it got the ax before Jr year in HS after 2 seasons of ECNL. 4. Survived all 4 years in HS. It was the toughest and best decision we had to make as parents. She'll be off to study Comp Sci this fall with 30%-40% of her 4 year degree completed w a month long trip to Europe w her bffs this summer and plans for some study abroad during college. Soccer served its purpose until it didn't.


----------



## chargerfan (Mar 9, 2017)

fudbaler said:


> We viewed the priorities as follows:
> 
> 1. Health/well being/social life
> 2. Academics
> ...


She was lucky to have parents with their priorities in check! Good luck to her!


----------



## Deadpoolscores! (Mar 9, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> So this is our first go around with having a high-level 8th grade soccer player that is also a straight A student.  Our ultimate concern is that her present and future school workload of 2-6 hours of nightly assignments necessary to maintain her straight A's will ultimately lead to sleep deprivation (it is not unusual for her to be up past 11:30/12 at night with a 6 AM wakeup time) and thus make her more prone to injuries and/or burnout.  I am considering approaching her teachers to extend the deadlines of her assignments and/or complain about the amount of work that is assigned.  Is this normal and just a bitter pill that she will need to swallow or are there other measures that can be taken to have the best of both worlds - straight A's,  energy for soccer training, and 7+ hours of sleep nightly?  In order for her to be as efficient with her time as possible, I am already picking her up from school and having her complete her assignments at the kitchen table while eating and removing the smartphone from her room. She is also devoting 15-20 hours on weekends to school  as well.  If I may ask those who gone down this road before, how did you make it work for your kid when they had a crazy heavy school workload?  Homeschooling, have them take easier classes, etc?


I personally went to the teachers and requested homework, projects etc. ahead of time. Weekends  allowed my DD to be ahead of schedule. I also was heavily involved in her school work and help her learn to be efficient with her work. As a special treat I take her to get a peti/mani to help her get a little stress relief. So far she has been able to keep her straight A, but I always remind her that it's ok to step back from soccer when necessary. I also spoke to the coach and he understood if there are days she would need to take a day off. The coach had no problem with it because he had a DD that was in a similar situation.


----------



## sandshark (Mar 9, 2017)

fudbaler said:


> We viewed the priorities as follows:
> 
> 1. Health/well being/social life
> 2. Academics
> ...



Best yet! 
When your neck deep in the ride It is hard for some to see the negative impact youth soccer imposes on their families, children's social life, academics and even their health. A lot of these young athletes are being physically and mentally over worked! Todays youth soccer seems to hold zero value for family time or especially the impact youth soccer has on a childs academics! 
 Most of the coaches are literally winging it when it comes to actual health and fitness, they don't have a clue on what is a truly reasonable and responsible training program when it comes to your childs developing bodies. And we are allowing it for the sake of challenging our childs coach.  Here is a good example...how many times have you watched a coach start to run the team and really push the girls physically a week or two before a big tournament? Seriously you think in 3-6 sessions over one to two weeks and your girls body is going to be ready for a "big tournament"  give me a break not even close! It actually does the exact opposite and to top it all off non of them understand a real recovery time needed for athletes much less adolescent athletes!!!! Don't kid yourself his is all 100% about the money.


----------



## JJP (Mar 9, 2017)

Slow Jamin said:


> Again, this is not a nightly occurrence with our DD.  It is not studying for tests and spending 6 hours.  Occasionally she will receive 6-10 page essay style assignments where she is required to read 50 pages of a book and have 1 night to get everything done.


Writing a 10 page essay after reading what I am going to assume is a dense 50 pages in one night is an absurdly difficult task for an 8th grader.   Doing that kind of homework as a college student would have taken me at least 3 hrs., I can easily see why your daughter spends 6 hrs. completing this task.

The problem with having a teacher like this is that, aside from exceptional students like your daughter, most kids, including my son, just can't sit still for 6 hrs. at one time.  Plus, to do that assignment, they would have to fall behind on every other assignment from other classes, and they lack the time management skills to catch up.  For my kid, and I'm sure for many other kids as well, to do well in that one class would require giving up all his sports and getting worse grades in every other class.

What my kid, and I'm sure most other kids would do, is turn in the assignment late and take the grade drop.  It doesn't really matter for 8th grade, but in HS it would put all the kids taking that English teacher's class at a huge, unfair disadvantage when applying to colleges.


----------

