# GA Showcases



## VegasParent

Since there is no GA section I thought I would post this here. Looks like the plan is 2 showcases, a playoff/showcase event and finals. No word on how many showcases clubs have to attend.


----------



## Giesbock

VegasParent said:


> Since there is no GA section I thought I would post this here. Looks like the plan is 2 showcases, a playoff/showcase event and finals. No word on how many showcases clubs have to attend.
> View attachment 7772


GA website is up and I’d say that whoever is behind  it is doing a great job.  GA is the real deal and I predict the league will give ECNL a run for it in terms of drawing coaches and scouts’ interest.

Would be great to see a GA vs. ECNL Finale!!


----------



## Goforgoal

Yes the GA does seem to be off to a good start, and has been very organized. I also like the idea of this Player Advisory Panel, although it will take time to see how it plays out and if players actually end up with any sort of collective say in league matters. The theory seems sound though. "The GAAP Provides the players a formal way to advocate for the collective voice of the players through a governance pathway to the GA Board." We shall see.


----------



## happy9

Giesbock said:


> GA website is up and I’d say that whoever is behind  it is doing a great job.  GA is the real deal and I predict the league will give ECNL a run for it in terms of drawing coaches and scouts’ interest.
> 
> Would be great to see a GA vs. ECNL Finale!!


That would certainly be awesome - too many adults in the way though


----------



## Jose has returned

Good luck to all the players playing in this league.  I hope the league does great and offer real competition to ECNL


----------



## futboldad1

Giesbock said:


> GA website is up and I’d say that whoever is behind  it is doing a great job.  *GA is the real deal* and I predict the league will give ECNL a run for it in terms of drawing coaches and scouts’ interest.
> 
> Would be great to see a GA vs. ECNL Finale!!


"GA is the real deal". What is that statement based on? A website? Players aren't even back on the field yet..... making predictions is totally cool but I'd advise caution before stating GAL will be able to compete with the ECNL given what happened to the federation-backed DA....... for the record it's great to have alternative leagues and more choices for kids so I hope GAL sticks around but my prediction is it isn't going to rival ECNL anytime soon but hopefully over time it is able to attract top players and succeed.....


----------



## Surf Zombie

I don’t think the ECNL National events schedule is out for next year year, but I wonder how much overlap there will be?

Here is the ECNL schedule for 2019-2020









						ECNL
					

ECNL NATIONAL EVENTS   	ECNL Phoenix (Fall)  |  Phoenix, AZ  |  November 8-10, 2019  |  U15-U18/U19 | Team List  	ECNL South Carolina  |  Greer, SC  |  December 6-8, 2019 | U15-U18/U19 | Team List  	ECNL Florida  |  Sanford, FL  |  January 10-12, 2020  |  U16-U18/U19 | Team List  	ECNL Texas  |...




					www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com
				




GAL would be smart to avoid conflicts as much as possible to attract more coaches.


----------



## VegasParent

I'm cautiously optimistic about GA. They have been doing a good job of promoting the leagues since its inception. Until we can get on the field and play games no one really knows how it will turn out. I'm really hoping the showcase in November at Silverlakes happens. That will be the first big test.


----------



## zags77

No question GA League is in good hands in year one.  If the top teams in the SW conference do play their best teams in ECRL (Legends and Beach) and get an invite to ECNL, does GAL let them be in both?  Also what other clubs are candidates to jump to ECNL if they expand by 10-15 teams in 21/22 season?


----------



## Surf Zombie

If ECNL expands I’d expect the clubs who are first in line to be the clubs who are in regional league this year. The 4 CA clubs, plus FC Virginia & Sporting Blue Valley.

And then off course Top Hat if that ever gets sorted out behind the scenes.


----------



## Desert Hound

VegasParent said:


> I'm really hoping the showcase in November at Silverlakes happens. That will be the first big test.


So it appears the first showcase is at Silverlakes... however that would be a piggy back on the Thanksgiving Silverlakes Showcase right? A separate division in that showcase for GAL?


----------



## happy9

futboldad1 said:


> "GA is the real deal". What is that statement based on? A website? Players aren't even back on the field yet..... making predictions is totally cool but I'd advise caution before stating GAL will be able to compete with the ECNL given what happened to the federation-backed DA....... for the record it's great to have alternative leagues and more choices for kids so I hope GAL sticks around but my prediction is it isn't going to rival ECNL anytime soon but hopefully over time it is able to attract top players and succeed.....


Who cares, seriously.  Both leagues will get attention, girls will go to college,some won't, parents will pay a ton of money for both and will argue their league is the premier, most talent laden league in the world.  

But we will all opine and that's what this place is for.  I hope both leagues make it.  Plenty of quality GA clubs/players across the country. If the GA doesn't for whatever reason, I hope ECNL does the right thing, because they didn't this time around.  

ECNL will certainly undergo dilution this year until playing on the field is sorted out. 

But for now, let's argue wholeheartedly about which league is better, cuz that's fun.


----------



## happy9

Desert Hound said:


> So it appears the first showcase is at Silverlakes... however that would be a piggy back on the Thanksgiving Silverlakes Showcase right? A separate division in that showcase for GAL?


Looks like the GA showcase is the week before 20-23.


----------



## Giesbock

futboldad1 said:


> "GA is the real deal". What is that statement based on? A website? Players aren't even back on the field yet..... making predictions is totally cool but I'd advise caution before stating GAL will be able to compete with the ECNL given what happened to the federation-backed DA....... for the record it's great to have alternative leagues and more choices for kids so I hope GAL sticks around but my prediction is it isn't going to rival ECNL anytime soon but hopefully over time it is able to attract top players and succeed.....
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Fair enough futboldad1... in part my prediction is based on quality of organizations that came together to give it a crack, the leadership group at team that my daughter plays for, and good reputation of other member teams.  I think the idea of empowering player-representatives from each teams is pretty forward thinking.  Wish they would try to secure a member of local WPSL teams, or National Team players from each region as a mentor / aspirational lead.
> 
> I'll be frank - we used to be with a big ECNL juggernaut and there was just a sour tone there...girls were supremely snipey like their sh** din't stink, and a coach who was big on yelling put-downs at players during play...  I'm sure all clubs aren't like that.  But funny how we're all influenced by our personal experiences.  If that experience is different from the broad reputation, it's still hard to get past it.  First impressions...


----------



## soccerfan123

happy9 said:


> *Who cares, seriously.*  Both leagues will get attention, girls will go to college,some won't, parents will pay a ton of money for both and will argue their league is the premier, most talent laden league in the world.
> 
> But we will all opine and that's what this place is for.  I hope both leagues make it.  Plenty of quality GA clubs/players across the country. If the GA doesn't for whatever reason, I hope ECNL does the right thing, because they didn't this time around.
> 
> *ECNL will certainly undergo dilution this year until playing on the field is sorted out.*
> 
> But for now, let's argue wholeheartedly about which league is better, cuz that's fun.


We all care which is why we here. my 04 dd is weighing her options as shes very good but not necesarily  top top to make ecnl drive worthwhile. but I dont agree ecnl is going to be 'certainly diluted' at all, that seems silly to say and many of the top DA players have joined ecnl clubs, so its more concentrate with talent than any league has been since 2016. it would have been diluted if they had let in every ex-DA club, many struggled bad


----------



## supercell

VegasParent said:


> Since there is no GA section I thought I would post this here. Looks like the plan is 2 showcases, a playoff/showcase event and finals. No word on how many showcases clubs have to attend.
> View attachment 7772


Geez, good luck if you're in the northeast!  Those folks have to make do with regional showcases I guess.


----------



## dad4

supercell said:


> Geez, good luck if you're in the northeast!  Those folks have to make do with regional showcases I guess.


Or you travel to a showcase for the two times it actually matters.  

Northeast is crowded with colleges.  There is a good chance the regional events will do what you need.


----------



## GT45

happy9 said:


> Who cares, seriously.  Both leagues will get attention, girls will go to college,some won't, parents will pay a ton of money for both and will argue their league is the premier, most talent laden league in the world.
> 
> But we will all opine and that's what this place is for.  I hope both leagues make it.  Plenty of quality GA clubs/players across the country. If the GA doesn't for whatever reason, I hope ECNL does the right thing, because they didn't this time around.
> 
> ECNL will certainly undergo dilution this year until playing on the field is sorted out.
> 
> But for now, let's argue wholeheartedly about which league is better, cuz that's fun.


ECNL is not undergoing dilution. Just the opposite. Former DA players are joining ECNL teams in waves. How is that dilution? The DA folded. ECNL picked up teams (Surf and Real So Cal for example) and players.


----------



## dad4

GT45 said:


> ECNL is not undergoing dilution. Just the opposite. Former DA players are joining ECNL teams in waves. How is that dilution? The DA folded. ECNL picked up teams (Surf and Real So Cal for example) and players.


Far more girls play ECNL now than before DA existed.  

That is fine by me.  A larger league with less travel is a good thing.  But I am honest enough to call it dilution.


----------



## LB Mom 78

Does anyone know when ECNL and GA will come out with schedules? I have heard both start in August. If true, how will GA and ECNL teams play Surf Cup?


----------



## VegasParent

LB Mom 78 said:


> Does anyone know when ECNL and GA will come out with schedules? I have heard both start in August. If true, how will GA and ECNL teams play Surf Cup?


As of now, my kids GA team is not planning on attending Surf Cup. As far as league schedules, I haven't heard anything.


----------



## LB Mom 78

VegasParent said:


> As of now, my kids GA team is not planning on attending Surf Cup. As far as league schedules, I haven't heard anything.


Are they not playing Surf Cup by choice or because GA will not allow them?


----------



## VegasParent

LB Mom 78 said:


> Are they not playing Surf Cup by choice or because GA will not allow them?


By choice. I think the coach just wants to focus on training before the season starts. If there is a fall season. From what I have been told and seen, there are no tournament restrictions with GA.


----------



## happy9

GT45 said:


> ECNL is not undergoing dilution. Just the opposite. Former DA players are joining ECNL teams in waves. How is that dilution? The DA folded. ECNL picked up teams (Surf and Real So Cal for example) and players.


We could argue this until the cows come home.  Yes, Surf and Real So Cal are in ECNL, both very good clubs with plenty of talent.  If I were the not so good ECNL teams, I would be concerned.  If Beach and Legends decide to enter next year, more talent will come.  There are two very good former DA clubs in AZ that are not in ECNL but will stay GA.  Who knows if in the future if they are added.  Both of those clubs are arguably better than the current AZ clubs in the SW conference.  At some point, ECNL will have to make a decision (or not).  Having huge conferences are good for regional competition, which is awesome.  But having 3-4 clubs potentially  dominate a 14 team conference = dilution.  Relegation?  Maybe but not good for club continuity and their would be a parent revolt.

But in reality, who cares, they are getting in front of college coaches, regardless of where your club sits in the standings.  At the end of the day the dollars are being spent  so our kids can get in front of college coaches.  The GA and ECNL will both get the job done.  Regardless, we will now argue which league is better, which is fun.  I just wish adults would adult and figure out a way to get the best teams of both leagues on the same pitch from time to time.  Kinda like a champions league or cup schedule.  But that won't happen and likely shouldn't.  The girls will be busy enough.  Let the parents argue over which league is the better league and let the girls play.


----------



## GT45

LB Mom 78 said:


> Does anyone know when ECNL and GA will come out with schedules? I have heard both start in August. If true, how will GA and ECNL teams play Surf Cup?


ECNL has never started league play before the 3rd or 4th week of August. It used to start in September, so Surf Cup August 7-9 will be fine for ECNL teams.


----------



## GT45

happy9 said:


> We could argue this until the cows come home.  Yes, Surf and Real So Cal are in ECNL, both very good clubs with plenty of talent.  If I were the not so good ECNL teams, I would be concerned.  If Beach and Legends decide to enter next year, more talent will come.  There are two very good former DA clubs in AZ that are not in ECNL but will stay GA.  Who knows if in the future if they are added.  Both of those clubs are arguably better than the current AZ clubs in the SW conference.  At some point, ECNL will have to make a decision (or not).  Having huge conferences are good for regional competition, which is awesome.  But having 3-4 clubs potentially  dominate a 14 team conference = dilution.  Relegation?  Maybe but not good for club continuity and their would be a parent revolt.
> 
> But in reality, who cares, they are getting in front of college coaches, regardless of where your club sits in the standings.  At the end of the day the dollars are being spent  so our kids can get in front of college coaches.  The GA and ECNL will both get the job done.  Regardless, we will now argue which league is better, which is fun.  I just wish adults would adult and figure out a way to get the best teams of both leagues on the same pitch from time to time.  Kinda like a champions league or cup schedule.  But that won't happen and likely shouldn't.  The girls will be busy enough.  Let the parents argue over which league is the better league and let the girls play.


You assume the GA rosters will remain the same. They aren't. Several DA players are leaving for ECNL teams. The club names may remain the same, but all of the players are not.


----------



## Mile High Dad

The only GA club in CO, Rush, my dd’s old team (04) lost 5 girls last year and lost 6 more recently when they couldn’t get into ECNL. Believe me that team will not be competitive in any league.


----------



## Giesbock

Mile High Dad said:


> The only GA club in CO, Rush, my dd’s old team (04) lost 5 girls last year and lost 6 more recently when they couldn’t get into ECNL. Believe me that team will not be competitive in any league.


That’s sad to hear...


----------



## happy9

GT45 said:


> You assume the GA rosters will remain the same. They aren't. Several DA players are leaving for ECNL teams. The club names may remain the same, but all of the players are not.


The opposite is also true, GA teams have stayed intact and have had migration from ECNL based on prior recruitment and commitments.  There is always going to be migration back and forth.  Some years ECNL wins, the other years whatever league is opposite ECNL will win.  It's the way elite youth sports works.  I hope for stability but we will see.  As Mile High Dad stated in his post, ECNL in Colorado is Queen, for now.  It will be vary according to region.  I wish the GA well.  Their PR machine is up and running - very professionally done. They are doing a great job  showcasing their talent, including their returning YNT kids.  Good for them.  I don't think ECNL has much to worry about this year, they'll continue to be the big dog on the block.  Plenty of good teams are in the GA, it will be fun for those girls to show off their talent on the pitch.  Not their fault Adults were too stupid and shortsighted to figure out how to administrate a league.


----------



## GT45

Oh Happy9 I would love to know which ECNL club(s) is losing players to the GA league, a league that has yet to play a game? I am all ears.


----------



## Gosocal

GT45 said:


> Oh Happy9 I would love to know which ECNL club(s) is losing players to the GA league, a league that has yet to play a game? I am all ears.


Losing players works both way to either league. Perhaps the ecnl kids displaced by DA kids where ECRL or regular club soccer at those ECNL clubs are not good options and leave for GA which was the next best option for them and worth the risk?


----------



## happy9

GT45 said:


> Oh Happy9 I would love to know which ECNL club(s) is losing players to the GA league, a league that has yet to play a game? I am all ears.


Big country my friend, the sun does not rise and set in California - plenty of talent in California though.  I'm not going to follow you down the rabbit hole you just dug.  I know ECNL carries a lot of weight for many parents, and it should, they do what they do well.  It's silly to think that the demise of the DA all of a sudden makes the GA a talent desert.  *Philosophically and stylistically, the leagues were different.*  It may have even been a major reason the GDA failed.  But there were many things that drew players, and parents, in.  Girls who were on their way out of ECNL to the DA still went.  They went because they believed in coaches, clubs.  The parents did also.  Will they go back to ECNL if the GA turns out to be a dud - highly likely, we always take care of our kids, such is life.


----------



## STX

Mile High Dad said:


> The only GA club in CO, Rush, my dd’s old team (04) lost 5 girls last year and lost 6 more recently when they couldn’t get into ECNL. Believe me that team will not be competitive in any league.


It's not just Colorado. Same thing has already happened in Texas, Georgia, and Florida.

Lonestar (DA/GA) lost entire teams to Sting Austin (ECNL).  In Houston, the Dash (DA/GA) lost a half dozen or so of their top players in each age group to Albion and Challenge (ECNL).

Friend in Georgia says the same thing happened to Tophat (DA/GA). Their top girls in just about every age group bolted for nearby ECNL teams. Mostly left for Concord Fire (ECNL), but all the ECNL teams near Atlanta got a lot better.  Says he heard the same defection to ECNL teams was happening in Florida.

Many, many GA clubs are a shadow of what they were just a few months ago.  It won't take many showcases for college coaches to notice and adjust accordingly.


----------



## dad4

STX said:


> It's not just Colorado. Same thing has already happened in Texas, Georgia, and Florida.
> 
> Lonestar (DA/GA) lost entire teams to Sting Austin (ECNL).  In Houston, the Dash (DA/GA) lost a half dozen or so of their top players in each age group to Albion and Challenge (ECNL).
> 
> Friend in Georgia says the same thing happened to Tophat (DA/GA). Their top girls in just about every age group bolted for nearby ECNL teams. Mostly left for Concord Fire (ECNL), but all the ECNL teams near Atlanta got a lot better.  Says he heard the same defection to ECNL teams was happening in Florida.
> 
> Many, many GA clubs are a shadow of what they were just a few months ago.  It won't take many showcases for college coaches to notice and adjust accordingly.


Sounds like what I would say if I worked for ECNL and wanted to convince parents to abandon GA.

Good luck to both leagues.  Hope the vaccine comes so kids can play.


----------



## STX

dad4 said:


> Sounds like what I would say if I worked for ECNL and wanted to convince parents to abandon GA.
> 
> Good luck to both leagues.  Hope the vaccine comes so kids can play.



Wouldn't think that what has happened thousands of miles away at other clubs would lead a child to "abandon" a good coach and teammates.

You are right, though, about one part. I should have left off personal speculation about what college coaches will eventually do. I wish I could edit that out as it isn't helpful to the conversation.

That said, I am 100% certain about the significant player movement from Lonestar, Houston Dash, and Tophat to nearby ECNL clubs. Those clubs are a shadow of their former selves, especially in the U13 through U16 ages groups (seems the olders decided to ride it out their last year or two with GA).


----------



## MMMM

STX said:


> Wouldn't think that what has happened thousands of miles away at other clubs would lead a child to "abandon" a good coach and teammates.
> 
> You are right, though, about one part. I should have left off personal speculation about what college coaches will eventually do. I wish I could edit that out as it isn't helpful to the conversation.
> 
> That said, I am 100% certain about the significant player movement from Lonestar, Houston Dash, and Tophat to nearby ECNL clubs. Those clubs are a shadow of their former selves, especially in the U13 through U16 ages groups (seems the olders decided to ride it out their last year or two with GA).


In the mid-Atlantic, it’s the opposite.  Haven’t heard of any DA girls leaving their GA teams and clubs. Probably has to do with the 04 and below ECNL teams being basement-dwellers. who knows what happens after next season, but it could be interesting if the mid-Atlantic GA teams are contenders for national championships because of player defections to ECNL in other parts of the country.  And the mid-Atlantic ECNL teams won’t get out of the basement without a talent infusion.


----------



## davin

MMMM said:


> In the mid-Atlantic, it’s the opposite.  Haven’t heard of any DA girls leaving their GA teams and clubs. Probably has to do with the 04 and below ECNL teams being basement-dwellers. who knows what happens after next season, but it could be interesting if the mid-Atlantic GA teams are contenders for national championships because of player defections to ECNL in other parts of the country.  And the mid-Atlantic ECNL teams won’t get out of the basement without a talent infusion.


NC Courage and Charlotte Soccer Academy were 2 of the top 3 clubs is the GDA Southeast Conference. They each had as many first place teams last year as Tophat. They joined ECNL and will be in the Mid Atlantic Conference. McLean, VDA, and Richmond all had ECNL national championship contenders over the last couple of years, so how are they bottom dwellers? Are you saying NC Courage and CSA, who were top clubs in GDA, will be all of a sudden become ECNL basement dwellers, too?


----------



## supercell

dad4 said:


> Or you travel to a showcase for the two times it actually matters.
> 
> Northeast is crowded with colleges.  There is a good chance the regional events will do what you need.


Unlikely. These regional events never draw the same talent or scouting that national showcases do.


----------



## davin

happy9 said:


> *Philosophically and stylistically, the leagues were different.*


There is no single style across all clubs/teams in any league. The coaches and clubs that joined the GDA initially were the same coaches and clubs that were in ECNL. They didn’t all of a sudden change their philosophies and styles and all start playing the same way as a league when the joined the GDA. Style of play varies from club to club and coach to coach. You’re not going to convince anyone that the Blues and Earthquakes had the same philosophy and style when they both played in GDA.


----------



## dad4

supercell said:


> Unlikely. These regional events never draw the same talent or scouting that national showcases do.


I would have thought it depends on what school you are shooting for.  Not everyone will play for UNC, and the lower prestige schools fill out their rosters somehow.   That's not what regional showcases are for?  

I’m new to this.  I kind of assumed that a regional showcase would draw scouts from local colleges without nationally known programs.


----------



## Ellejustus

davin said:


> *There is no single style across all clubs/teams in any league.* The coaches and clubs that joined the GDA initially were the same coaches and clubs that were in ECNL. They didn’t all of a sudden change their philosophies and styles and all start playing the same way as a league when the joined the GDA. Style of play varies from club to club and coach to coach. Y*ou’re not going to convince anyone that the Blues and Earthquakes had the same philosophy and style when they both played in GDA.*


My dd had the privilege and honor to play in both leagues.  Yes, that's right.  I was a lost soul with only soccer to care about and my competitive ego. Dang, my old self was prideful and so dang competitive.  I want to say 100% no league had any style.  GDA had a philosophy for the league and they wanted the coaches to follow.  Some tried and some did same old same old.  I saw that philosophy taught and it didn;t work out.  The style of play never changed from all the games I witnessed.


----------



## Copa9

futboldad1 said:


> "GA is the real deal". What is that statement based on? A website? Players aren't even back on the field yet..... making predictions is totally cool but I'd advise caution before stating GAL will be able to compete with the ECNL given what happened to the federation-backed DA....... for the record it's great to have alternative leagues and more choices for kids so I hope GAL sticks around but my prediction is it isn't going to rival ECNL anytime soon but hopefully over time it is able to attract top players and succeed.....


GA already has top players. The bottom line for all the players is will they have a great youth development and be able to play high level soccer in college if that is what they want to do.  The existing platforms don't develop they provide opportunities for games and showcases. Coaches will find the talent.


----------



## Copa9

davin said:


> There is no single style across all clubs/teams in any league. The coaches and clubs that joined the GDA initially were the same coaches and clubs that were in ECNL. They didn’t all of a sudden change their philosophies and styles and all start playing the same way as a league when the joined the GDA. Style of play varies from club to club and coach to coach. You’re not going to convince anyone that the Blues and Earthquakes had the same philosophy and style when they both played in GDA.


The huge difference in style is more east coast-west coast.  There is a very real difference.  Doesn't matter though because they will only meet at showcases, 3 games,  and playoffs for youth players.  The colleges tend to pick players who play their style.


----------



## Copa9

Mile High Dad said:


> The only GA club in CO, Rush, my dd’s old team (04) lost 5 girls last year and lost 6 more recently when they couldn’t get into ECNL. Believe me that team will not be competitive in any league.


And....you must have watched the team play games to make a sweeping generalization like that.  Oh wait, no one has played in 3-4 months.


----------



## soccerfan123

dad4 said:


> Sounds like what I would say if I worked for ECNL and wanted to convince parents to abandon GA.
> 
> Good luck to both leagues.  Hope the vaccine comes so kids can play.


ROFLMAO dad4, you and others are clearly projecting as your club is one of the deposed. ECNL parents dont need to do that, but this thread IS full of GA parents that are trying to deny that peeps are leaving from DA to ECNL. unless you at beach, the exodus is v v real and many are staying because they hope a top ECRL performance will get them ECNL not because of ga. my dd is likely going to play lowly discovery league but at least call it like it is and not how you wish it was

ga may ultimately do fine, but it is not in any world a ECNL rival or have the depth of talent ecnl has in so cal or other places so phlease


----------



## dad4

soccerfan123 said:


> ROFLMAO dad4, you and others are clearly projecting as your club is one of the deposed. ECNL parents dont need to do that, but this thread IS full of GA parents that are trying to deny that peeps are leaving from DA to ECNL. unless you at beach, the exodus is v v real and many are staying because they hope a top ECRL performance will get them ECNL not because of ga. my dd is likely going to play lowly discovery league but at least call it like it is and not how you wish it was
> 
> ga may ultimately do fine, but it is not in any world a ECNL rival or have the depth of talent ecnl has in so cal or other places so phlease


My kid is 10.  I have no reason to care, other than wanting a decent structure when she starts U13.  

Two competing leagues means dilution and travel.   That does not qualify as a decent structure.

Nothing wrong with Discovery league.  If the games are good, have fun and enjoy it.


----------



## girlsrule7

soccerfan123 said:


> ROFLMAO dad4, you and others are clearly projecting as your club is one of the deposed. ECNL parents dont need to do that, but this thread IS full of GA parents that are trying to deny that peeps are leaving from DA to ECNL. unless you at beach, the exodus is v v real and many are staying because they hope a top ECRL performance will get them ECNL not because of ga. my dd is likely going to play lowly discovery league but at least call it like it is and not how you wish it was
> 
> ga may ultimately do fine, but it is not in any world a ECNL rival or have the depth of talent ecnl has in so cal or other places so phlease


I would guess that in the places where girls are staying with GA clubs, its because they are getting good coaching and are happy with their development.  Seems like girls already in the recruiting process may not want to make a switch midway through.


----------



## happy9

davin said:


> There is no single style across all clubs/teams in any league. The coaches and clubs that joined the GDA initially were the same coaches and clubs that were in ECNL. They didn’t all of a sudden change their philosophies and styles and all start playing the same way as a league when the joined the GDA. Style of play varies from club to club and coach to coach. You’re not going to convince anyone that the Blues and Earthquakes had the same philosophy and style when they both played in GDA.


You are fundamentally correct, not all coaches and clubs practiced what the federation preached.  I'm not trying to convince anyone that clubs adhered to anything. There are coaches and clubs that nodded their heads up and down and then did what they wanted to do.  But there was a curriculum, there was a style of play that the federation preached (and still do).  Some clubs adhered, some didn't.  I don't know if you ever sat in on Federation visits  or sat through a club visit from US YNT scouts.  There was  method to the madness.  The GDA was focused on the women's team and pushing down the philosophies of how they played.  College was a byproduct.  It wasn't a bad thing.  The downside to the federation was  how controlling they were, silly really.  Stylistically, I prefer what they preached, but that's my opinion.  I love futbol and appreciate how the women's team plays, what Jill Ellis brought to the game and how they executed on the pitch.  The men could learn a thing or two from the USWNT.  Commit to a style of play, play roles instead of positions...blah blah..all that stuff that was put in place and that the team bought into.  As the dad of a soccer addicted girl, it's awesome to watch

The ECNL game is different - it's about college.  Nothing wrong with that.  No need to pitch style of play, strategy, tactics, etc.  ECNL does a great of portraying itself as a platform where our girls develop personally as well athletically, empowerment.  Which is great and it works.  They place more girls in college than any other platform.  And they should, with how much it cost.

And by the way, that quakes team was pretty good, and will be good this year under another name.  Plenty of YNT girls on that team.  I know there is some resentment towards those young ladies, but that is a really good side.

Enjoy the rest of your fathers day - spend some time on the pitch today being a goalie for your daughter (unless she's a goalie).

Best


----------



## Hugh Jasol

girlsrule7 said:


> I would guess that in the places where girls are staying with GA clubs, its because they are getting good coaching and are happy with their development.  Seems like girls already in the recruiting process may not want to make a switch midway through.


Why would certain clubs put top teams in ECRL instead of GA?  It seems like a disservice to the kids on those top teams to play a bunch of second teams from top clubs.  Am I missing something or are the second teams playing GA making out like bandits in terms of level of play?


----------



## Kicker4Life

In our case, they were listening to the membership.


----------



## Ellejustus

happy9 said:


> You are fundamentally correct, not all coaches and clubs practiced what the federation preached.  I'm not trying to convince anyone that clubs adhered to anything. There are coaches and clubs that nodded their heads up and down and then did what they wanted to do.  But there was a curriculum, there was a style of play that the federation preached (and still do).  Some clubs adhered, some didn't.  I don't know if you ever sat in on Federation visits  or sat through a club visit from US YNT scouts.  There was  method to the madness.  The GDA was focused on the women's team and pushing down the philosophies of how they played.  College was a byproduct.  It wasn't a bad thing.  The downside to the federation was  how controlling they were, silly really.  Stylistically, I prefer what they preached, but that's my opinion.  I love futbol and appreciate how the women's team plays, what Jill Ellis brought to the game and how they executed on the pitch.  The men could learn a thing or two from the USWNT.  Commit to a style of play, play roles instead of positions...blah blah..all that stuff that was put in place and that the team bought into.  As the dad of a soccer addicted girl, it's awesome to watch
> 
> The ECNL game is different - it's about college.  Nothing wrong with that.  No need to pitch style of play, strategy, tactics, etc.  ECNL does a great of portraying itself as a platform where our girls develop personally as well athletically, empowerment.  Which is great and it works.  They place more girls in college than any other platform.  And they should, with how much it cost.
> 
> And by the way, that quakes team was pretty good, and will be good this year under another name.  Plenty of YNT girls on that team.  I know there is some resentment towards those young ladies, but that is a really good side.
> 
> Enjoy the rest of your fathers day - spend some time on the pitch today being a goalie for your daughter (unless she's a goalie).
> 
> Best


It's all water under the bridge and a new dawn is approaching girls soccer.  That Quakes Team, The Beach Team, Carlsbad Team and that Legends Team are the real deal.  My dd had a blast playing them two years ago and hope to play them again sometime in the near future.  In Socal, GA or ECNL is no small potatoes and both are great.  Lets play ball!!!


----------



## Hugh Jasol

Kicker4Life said:


> In our case, they were listening to the membership.


Has your club told you what they will do next year with ECRL team when/if they are again out of ECNL?  Will they go all in with GA or keep trying for ECNL and keep having the top teams play inferior competition?  Do you mind sharing which club you are at?


----------



## Kicker4Life

This season hasn’t even started (may not) and you’re already talking about next season? but I get what you’re looking for...

They knew they couldn’t make a promise of what the future might hold in terms of leagues so they didn’t.

We’ve got a great Coaching staff at Beach and for me, that’s the attraction of the Club.  The team/player retention rate speaks to that.


----------



## Hugh Jasol

Kicker4Life said:


> This season hasn’t even started (may not) and you’re already talking about next season? but I get what you’re looking for...
> 
> They knew they couldn’t make a promise of what the future might hold in terms of leagues so they didn’t.
> 
> We’ve got a great Coaching staff at Beach and for me, that’s the attraction of the Club.  The team/player retention rate speaks to that.


Beach is a fine club and you has a few excellent coaches there so it makes some sense what they are doing this season. It might make sense for them to go all in on GA if ECNL politics keep them out again.


----------



## MMMM

davin said:


> NC Courage and Charlotte Soccer Academy were 2 of the top 3 clubs is the GDA Southeast Conference. They each had as many first place teams last year as Tophat. They joined ECNL and will be in the Mid Atlantic Conference. McLean, VDA, and Richmond all had ECNL national championship contenders over the last couple of years, so how are they bottom dwellers? Are you saying NC Courage and CSA, who were top clubs in GDA, will be all of a sudden become ECNL basement dwellers, too?


No, i was talking about 2019-2020 ECNL mid-Atlantic, and at the younger ages. NC Courage and Charlotte will likely contend at the top, as will Richmond, which is in a more isolated geographic area with only an ECNL option. For the teams where players have the geographic option to move between ECNL and DA/GA, the Mclean and BRYC ECNL teams that contended for national championships over the last couple of years are older teams - birth years 00, 01, 02, and 03. At 04 and below, those ECNL clubs tend to be at the bottom of the current (2019-2020) ECNL bracket and very few GA/DA players in those age groups who are in the same geographic region have moved to ECNL teams. My point was really that if players remain where they are for next year, the GA Mid-Atlantic may be very strong and contend nationally, especially if the top players in *other* regions move from GA teams to ECNL teams.


----------



## Giesbock

Hugh Jasol said:


> Why would certain clubs put top teams in ECRL instead of GA?  It seems like a disservice to the kids on those top teams to play a bunch of second teams from top clubs.  Am I missing something or are the second teams playing GA making out like bandits in terms of level of play?


To me, it seems like a disservice to the GA to not play their top team in league.  Why not support the GA to be all it can, rather than defer to the league that snubbed you?


----------



## supercell

dad4 said:


> I would have thought it depends on what school you are shooting for.  Not everyone will play for UNC, and the lower prestige schools fill out their rosters somehow.   That's not what regional showcases are for?
> 
> I’m new to this.  I kind of assumed that a regional showcase would draw scouts from local colleges without nationally known programs.


Well that is true. If you are looking for lower DIII or NAIA, the east coast regional showcases/tournaments can work well for players. Even something like Jeff Cup (might be the largest regional non-GA/ECNL tournament on the east coast) is not as good as an ECNL national event for mid-major DI and up scouting. Most GA players (at least those formerly in GDA) have their sights set on DI or high DIII.


----------



## Surf Zombie

To be blunt, because the end goal for Beach, Legends, Pats, WC, Sporting Blue Valley, Etc. is to gain admission into the ECNL.  The best way to do that, IMO, is to have a very strong showing in the ECNL-R league games next year. That, plus being good members of boys ECNL helps their cause. 

In the North East NEFC & South Shore Select are desperately trying to get into ECNL on the girls side. NEFC just added ECNL boys and Select (which is an all girls club) just partnered with a boy’s club, Boston Bolts, who has ECNL on the boys side. While having boys ECNL is no guarantee for admission on the girls side, I’m sure it helps their efforts.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

happy9 said:


> And by the way, that quakes team was pretty good, and will be good this year under another name.  Plenty of YNT girls on that team.  I know there is some resentment towards those young ladies, but that is a really good side.


No, I don't believe there is resentment towards those young ladies. However, I absolutely believe there is some resentment regarding the selection process for Training Center and USGNT events.


----------



## Desert Hound

Hugh Jasol said:


> Why would certain clubs put top teams in ECRL instead of GA?


Because they want to be in ECNL. If that doesn't work out they will take GAL. 

Beach and the others in the SW have ECRL for girls and on the boys side ECNL and ECRL. You can see where there interest lies.


----------



## davin

MMMM said:


> No, i was talking about 2019-2020 ECNL mid-Atlantic, and at the younger ages. NC Courage and Charlotte will likely contend at the top, as will Richmond, which is in a more isolated geographic area with only an ECNL option. For the teams where players have the geographic option to move between ECNL and DA/GA, the Mclean and BRYC ECNL teams that contended for national championships over the last couple of years are older teams - birth years 00, 01, 02, and 03. At 04 and below, those ECNL clubs tend to be at the bottom of the current (2019-2020) ECNL bracket and very few GA/DA players in those age groups who are in the same geographic region have moved to ECNL teams. My point was really that if players remain where they are for next year, the GA Mid-Atlantic may be very strong and contend nationally, especially if the top players in *other* regions move from GA teams to ECNL teams.


Sounds like you have an agenda. You keep trying to change the parameters of you argument(age group, geography, not counting incoming clubs). Last year, there were playoffs for the 06, 05 and 04 age groups. The Mid Atlantic conference had national championship contenders in the 04 age group(CESA) and 06 age group(VDA). Are these teams bottom feeders too, or do they not meet the narrow parameters you have that keep changing?


----------



## happy9

kickingandscreaming said:


> No, I don't believe there is resentment towards those young ladies. However, I absolutely believe there is some resentment regarding the selection process for Training Center and USGNT events.


Better stated than how I stated it.  There is always going to be resentment regarding a selection process for high profile teams.  Elite youth sports are emotionally charged - you can never make everyone happy and someone is always going to fall on their sword if they believe something to be true (which may be true to them).  Often times fit is considered over talent, and we are splitting hairs when it comes to talent.  ECNL/DA/GA girls are already a small population when compared to their peers across the country.  Hats off to every girl who was even selected to attend  a YNT ID center.

Being selected one year doesn't guarantee you selection the next year.   It's nice to have it on your palmares, but it doesn't guarantee subsequent selection. It's a hard pill to swallow for girls, parents, clubs, coaches if you weren't selected and you think you should have been selected based on physical criteria.  Sometimes fit matters.  The other school of thought is that there is a conspiracy afoot  to keep certain factions out.  If that was the case, then shame on the federation.


----------



## MMMM

davin said:


> Sounds like you have an agenda. You keep trying to change the parameters of you argument(age group, geography, not counting incoming clubs). Last year, there were playoffs for the 06, 05 and 04 age groups. The Mid Atlantic conference had national championship contenders in the 04 age group(CESA) and 06 age group(VDA). Are these teams bottom feeders too, or do they not meet the narrow parameters you have that keep changing?


Mid-Atlantic GA might contend nationally if, as keeps being said on this board, DA/GA players from other regions are moving to ECNL teams. That’s not happening in much of the Mid-Atlantic.  That’s truly my only point.


----------



## vegasguy

happy9 said:


> I know ECNL carries a lot of weight for many parents, and it should, they do what they do well. It's silly to think that the demise of the DA all of a sudden makes the GA a talent desert.


It truly depends on the age group and region of the club.  some clubs have some very strong age groups  but not specifically strong across the club as a whole.  In socal it seems that many chase exposure more than staying with a proper coach.  AZ will be interesting as will TX and NV is to small and the GA club an ECNL club will always remain competitive.  NoCal seems to have migration to ECNL from the rumors on the board so that hurts GA as that had some strong GA teams.  
Who wins and who loses this battle is a crappy argument because only the kids and parents egos lose.   Kids being the only important part of that equation.


----------



## happy9

vegasguy said:


> It truly depends on the age group and region of the club.  some clubs have some very strong age groups  but not specifically strong across the club as a whole.  In socal it seems that many chase exposure more than staying with a proper coach.  AZ will be interesting as will TX and NV is to small and the GA club an ECNL club will always remain competitive.  NoCal seems to have migration to ECNL from the rumors on the board so that hurts GA as that had some strong GA teams.
> *Who wins and who loses this battle is a crappy argument because only the kids and parents egos lose*.   Kids being the only important part of that equation.


Smartest statement ever uttered.  Flag/patch protectors cripple youth sports.  SOCAL is it's own animal and will be driven by different things.  There has not been significant movement of players in Arizona.  Prior to the DA going away, there was the normal back and forth - coach left, girls followed.  One year one club won, another the other club, business as usual.

Obviously if the GA doesn't hold it's own, we may see significant movement.  Club/coach loyalty is important and so far that's been the path for the AZ girls.  In all honestly, some clubs want to shed players, it's the business of youth sports.


----------



## Dubs

happy9 said:


> Better stated than how I stated it.  There is always going to be resentment regarding a selection process for high profile teams.  Elite youth sports are emotionally charged - you can never make everyone happy and someone is always going to fall on their sword if they believe something to be true (which may be true to them).  Often times fit is considered over talent, and we are splitting hairs when it comes to talent.  ECNL/DA/GA girls are already a small population when compared to their peers across the country.  Hats off to every girl who was even selected to attend  a YNT ID center.
> 
> Being selected one year doesn't guarantee you selection the next year.   It's nice to have it on your palmares, but it doesn't guarantee subsequent selection. It's a hard pill to swallow for girls, parents, clubs, coaches if you weren't selected and you think you should have been selected based on physical criteria.  Sometimes fit matters.  The other school of thought is that there is a conspiracy afoot  to keep certain factions out.  If that was the case, then shame on the federation.


What you're saying is not the reason for the resentment.  The reason for the resentment is that the DA ensured an almost exclusively DA roster for these camps by design.  Many deserving ECNL players were not chosen simply because they play in ECNL.  USSF was not shy about stating this both publicly and to the girls themselves.  THAT is why.


----------



## happy9

Dubs said:


> What you're saying is not the reason for the resentment.  The reason for the resentment is that the DA ensured an almost exclusively DA roster for these camps by design.  Many deserving ECNL players were not chosen simply because they play in ECNL.  USSF was not shy about stating this both publicly and to the girls themselves.  THAT is why.


I certainly am not going to question what you were told, heard, observed.  My point is that not everyone is going to be satisfied, especially when adults are involved.  I'm sure there were many deserving DA players that were not selected.  There are likely players outside of the cool letter leagues that should have gone.  I've never heard anyone say that the Federation was openly biased against ECNL but that really doesn't mean anything.  I know parents in both leagues that had YNT attendees.

If/when the YNT programs is back up and running, they will still not meet everyone's expectations.  Maybe this year it will be the GA parents that will feel as if their is a bias.  I haven't sat down and done a detailed analysis, and likely never will.  The slice of the population that goes to YNTs is small. For many it's a one time event but look great on their resume.

Oh the things we worry about..


----------



## Dubs

happy9 said:


> I certainly am not going to question what you were told, heard, observed.  My point is that not everyone is going to be satisfied, especially when adults are involved.  I'm sure there were many deserving DA players that were not selected.  There are likely players outside of the cool letter leagues that should have gone.  I've never heard anyone say that the Federation was openly biased against ECNL but that really doesn't mean anything.  I know parents in both leagues that had YNT attendees.
> 
> If/when the YNT programs is back up and running, they will still not meet everyone's expectations.  Maybe this year it will be the GA parents that will feel as if their is a bias.  I haven't sat down and done a detailed analysis, and likely never will.  The slice of the population that goes to YNTs is small. For many it's a one time event but look great on their resume.
> 
> Oh the things we worry about..


You are missing my point and definitely uninformed about what was actually happening (the pissing match between DA & ECNL).  Be that as it may, you are not wrong in saying that not everyone is going to be satisfied, but again, that goes without saying.  You have to include the "cool letter" leagues because that is where the YNT level players come from.  Just so happens they were only taking (with the exception of 1 or 2 and in some cases zero ECNL players) players from DA because that was their strategy in trying to get the best players/coaches/clubs to come to their platform and away from ECNL.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Dubs said:


> You are missing my point and definitely uninformed about what was actually happening (the pissing match between DA & ECNL).  Be that as it may, you are not wrong in saying that not everyone is going to be satisfied, but again, that goes without saying.  You have to include the "cool letter" leagues because that is where the YNT level players come from.  Just so happens they were only taking (with the exception of 1 or 2 and in some cases zero ECNL players) players from DA because that was their strategy in trying to get the best players/coaches/clubs to come to their platform and away from ECNL.


Yet 7 went to England with the u16’s in Feb.  although your point is clear and just, let’s not overly skew the data to better fit the narrative. 
If you look at the u15 and u14 TC’s the ECNL participation increases (at least in SoCal).


----------



## shales1002

Kicker4Life said:


> Yet 7 went to England with the u16’s in Feb.  although your point is clear and just, let’s not overly skew the data to better fit the narrative.
> If you look at the u15 and u14 TC’s the ECNL participation increases (at least in SoCal).


ECNL players who did not move to GDA were not called into camp because they had to defer to the GDA counterparts. Those words were actually said to players. They were taking only ONE side. Now those YNT who are staying GA, I hope you all don’t experience that BS. I have always said the best should be chosen regardless of patch or lack thereof. As for the U16 YNT just take note of what happened to all the coaches who chose only GDA players.


----------



## happy9

Dubs said:


> You are missing my point and definitely uninformed about what was actually happening (the pissing match between DA & ECNL).  Be that as it may, you are not wrong in saying that not everyone is going to be satisfied, but again, that goes without saying.  You have to include the "cool letter" leagues because that is where the YNT level players come from.  Just so happens they were only taking (with the exception of 1 or 2 and in some cases zero ECNL players) players from DA because that was their strategy in trying to get the best players/coaches/clubs to come to their platform and away from ECNL.


Dude - relax and please don't tell me that I'm uninformed, hurts my feelings, and feelings matter, haven't you heard?   I certainly don't walk the hallways of the Federation or ECNL   I clearly agree with you that ECNL/GA/GDA is where the majority of the talent will come from, no brainer.  My point is the non "cool" leagues also deserve a shot, and they usually don't get one , but that's the way it works.  

But please inform me of the pissing contest, I would love hear all about it.


----------



## Kicker4Life

shales1002 said:


> ECNL players who did not move to GDA were not called into camp because they had to defer to the GDA counterparts. Those words were actually said to players. They were taking only ONE side. Now those YNT who are staying GA, I hope you all don’t experience that BS. I have always said the best should be chosen regardless of patch or lack thereof. As for the U16 YNT just take note of what happened to all the coaches who chose only GDA players.


They were gone before the end of the 2019 calendar year.


----------



## shales1002

Kicker4Life said:


> They were gone before the end of the 2019 calendar year.


With ECNL players scrubbed from the “list”, next coach just picks up the modified list and keeps the cycle going. As @happy9 says, we can hope that patches don’t matter anymore,  and the best will be chosen.


----------



## Kicker4Life

shales1002 said:


> With ECNL players scrubbed from the “list”, next coach just picks up the modified list and keeps the cycle going. As @happy9 says, we can hope that patches don’t matter anymore,  and the best will be chosen.


I agree that patches should NEVER matter in this type of process


----------



## Ellejustus

shales1002 said:


> ECNL players who did not move to GDA were not called into camp because they had to defer to the GDA counterparts. Those words were actually said to players. They were taking only ONE side. Now those YNT who are staying GA, I hope you all don’t experience that BS. I have always said the best should be chosen regardless of patch or lack thereof. As for the U16 YNT just take note of what happened to all the coaches who chose only GDA players.


----------



## Dubs

happy9 said:


> Dude - relax and please don't tell me that I'm uninformed, hurts my feelings, and feelings matter, haven't you heard?   I certainly don't walk the hallways of the Federation or ECNL   I clearly agree with you that ECNL/GA/GDA is where the majority of the talent will come from, no brainer.  My point is the non "cool" leagues also deserve a shot, and they usually don't get one , but that's the way it works.
> 
> But please inform me of the pissing contest, I would love hear all about it.


I am relaxed.  I agree with you they should be scouting talent from wherever talent is.  Period.  They were not (as it has been widely discussed and proved), hence my reaction.  There are pages and pages and pages on this forum that discuss the pissing match in detail.  I suggest you go through those.  It will give you some perspective.


----------



## Ellejustus

Dubs said:


> I am relaxed.  I agree with you they should be scouting talent from wherever talent is.  Period.  They were not (as it has been widely discussed and proved), hence my reaction.  There are pages and pages and pages on this forum that discuss the pissing match in detail.  I suggest you go through those.  It will give you some perspective.


I'm sure outlaw, espy, eolt dude, and all my friends here would love a recount.......lol.........jk!!!!  My one year anniversary is coming up too, so maybe a recount is in order.  I was asked ((told)) to never post or talk on here or else.....lol!!!  Some club hopper I am, huh?  Like I said before, life is not fair. It's all water under the bridge.  They used The List as "ynt bait" to get the top players to stay GDA or leave ECNL for the new GDA Philosophy.  Players were told on numerous occasions you better leave that league for GDA if you wants a sniff into camp.  Some players, ((not all)) were going for the list and that is ok. My dd knows she just didn't cut the mustard and basically knows all the others girl players on the GDA were just that much better and she and I are very ok with fact.  She will now look to play against America's finest and that will give her and other players who felt snubbed some extra ganas in the tank.  That's all one can ask for, right?


----------



## chiefs

shales1002 said:


> With ECNL players scrubbed from the “list”, next coach just picks up the modified list and keeps the cycle going. As @happy9 says, we can hope that patches don’t matter anymore,  and the best will be chosen.


Well, hopefully the previous NT coaches were removed, and the next coach actually takes the time to come to their own conclusions.  Do they have the resources to do that?  I doubt it...


----------



## supercell

chiefs said:


> Well, hopefully the previous NT coaches were removed, and the next coach actually takes the time to come to their own conclusions.  Do they have the resources to do that?  I doubt it...


That's a good point. What have they done with the fed scouts? Are they still there, with residual (mis)perceptions?


----------



## Giesbock

Players should wear unmarked jerseys and scouts should be sent showcases / regional camps that are far from their home turf...


----------



## happy9

Giesbock said:


> Players should wear unmarked jerseys and scouts should be sent showcases / regional camps that are far from their home turf...


It's certainly not a perfect process.  The YNT ID centers are local, administered by a host club, meaning they coordinated for fields and provided the opposing team for the age group being observed.  The players don't wear club gear but of course the observing staff knows what clubs they are from.  The host club is not involved in any way during the assessment - at least that's the outward appearance.  From warm up to cool down, it's run by the USSF staff.  

As to where some of the YNT scouts went to, some of them have gone on to become senior staffers on clubs in their local areas. A good example I guess to the San Diego area, would be Albion hiring Jen Lalor as their Pathways director and Assistant Academy Director.  She was a prominent US YNT scout and former USWNT middie.  She has a great pedigree and appears to be a good steward of the Girls game..  It's a good club with a history of success.


----------



## Justafan

Hugh Jasol said:


> Why would certain clubs put top teams in ECRL instead of GA?  It seems like a disservice to the kids on those top teams to play a bunch of second teams from top clubs.  Am I missing something or are the second teams playing GA making out like bandits in terms of level of play?


Somebody take away this guy's Kool-Aid please.  Brother you're missing everything.  What makes you think GAL is even better than Discovery?  Simi where are you, this is the whole DPL discussion all over again.  Hate to break it to you, but GAL may be the 4th best league after 1) ECNL, 2) ECRL, a very close second, 3) Discovery/GAL, 4) GAL/Discovery.  

ECRL will annihilate GAL and in my opinion can give ECNL a run for its money.  You have Beach, Legends, Pats, and West Coast FC's top teams and then you have Surf & Blues' 2nd teams which are very, very good teams.     

GAL has Beach, Legends, Pats, & WCFC's 2nd teams.  Beach and Legends 2nd teams are also very good, but they are in a mix with many other "very good" teams.  Pats & WCFC's 2nd teams are not as good as Beach and Legends 2nd teams and then you have 5 bottom tier former DA teams. These teams are probably in the "very good" tier of teams IF they stick together and don't lose player to ECNL.  The kicker is City SC.  If they stay intact then that's an excellent team.  

Discovery has 6-8 "very good" teams.  Look, my dd's are 04's and so we are almost out of this, but I can't sit by and let people just assume GAL is the second best league, just because the say they are and have a nice website. This exact same thing happened with DPL and I was proven right. So this is really for the younger parents out there.  Don't panic!   

So here's the deal.  For any given age group in SoCal, you will have anywhere from 1-4 Elite/Great teams; 8-11 excellent teams; then 20-30 "very good" teams.  That's our strength in SoCal, we have incredible depth.  These 20-30 very good teams would be top 5 teams in about 35-40 States.  
So ECNL and ECRL have all the Elite & excellent teams with the exception of City SC.  But that's only 10-15 teams total.  The rest are in the very good tier.  Some of those "very good" teams are in ECNL & ECRL (the lower halves) and some are in Discovery, GAL, CSL, & SDDA. 

You do not have to be in GAL to get college exposure.  You can be in Discovery, CSL, SDDA, etc. and still attend the college showcases in Vegas, Silverlakes, and Surf.  Look brother, I get that we all have egos, but we don't have to put another league down to prop ourselves up.


----------



## Ellejustus




----------



## Hugh Jasol

Justafan said:


> Somebody take away this guy's Kool-Aid please.  Brother you're missing everything.  What makes you think GAL is even better than Discovery?  Simi where are you, this is the whole DPL discussion all over again.  Hate to break it to you, but GAL may be the 4th best league after 1) ECNL, 2) ECRL, a very close second, 3) Discovery/GAL, 4) GAL/Discovery.
> 
> ECRL will annihilate GAL and in my opinion can give ECNL a run for its money.  You have Beach, Legends, Pats, and West Coast FC's top teams and then you have Surf & Blues' 2nd teams which are very, very good teams.
> 
> GAL has Beach, Legends, Pats, & WCFC's 2nd teams.  Beach and Legends 2nd teams are also very good, but they are in a mix with many other "very good" teams.  Pats & WCFC's 2nd teams are not as good as Beach and Legends 2nd teams and then you have 5 bottom tier former DA teams. These teams are probably in the "very good" tier of teams IF they stick together and don't lose player to ECNL.  The kicker is City SC.  If they stay intact then that's an excellent team.
> 
> Discovery has 6-8 "very good" teams.  Look, my dd's are 04's and so we are almost out of this, but I can't sit by and let people just assume GAL is the second best league, just because the say they are and have a nice website. This exact same thing happened with DPL and I was proven right. So this is really for the younger parents out there.  Don't panic!
> 
> So here's the deal.  For any given age group in SoCal, you will have anywhere from 1-4 Elite/Great teams; 8-11 excellent teams; then 20-30 "very good" teams.  That's our strength in SoCal, we have incredible depth.  These 20-30 very good teams would be top 5 teams in about 35-40 States.
> So ECNL and ECRL have all the Elite & excellent teams with the exception of City SC.  But that's only 10-15 teams total.  The rest are in the very good tier.  Some of those "very good" teams are in ECNL & ECRL (the lower halves) and some are in Discovery, GAL, CSL, & SDDA.
> 
> You do not have to be in GAL to get college exposure.  You can be in Discovery, CSL, SDDA, etc. and still attend the college showcases in Vegas, Silverlakes, and Surf.  Look brother, I get that we all have egos, but we don't have to put another league down to prop ourselves up.


Windbag


----------



## Justafan

Hugh Jasol said:


> Windbag


Sorry brother, you came out swinging, you had an agenda to promote GAL, and you got called out with facts.  I dare you to refute anything I said.  Do you realize how easily you just glossed over ECRL, Discovery, CSL, and SDDA and annointed GAL as the undisputed 2nd best league? You did that, not me.  Own it.


----------



## Hugh Jasol

Justafan said:


> Sorry brother, you came out swinging, you had an agenda to promote GAL, and you got called out with facts.  I dare you to refute anything I said.  Do you realize how easily you just glossed over ECRL, Discovery, CSL, and SDDA and annointed GAL as the undisputed 2nd best league? You did that, not me.  Own it.


I do not see any facts in your post above. It appears that you are claiming your observations as facts. I asked a question that was based on my observations but am not so out of touch to ever call my observations facts.


----------



## Copa9

Justafan said:


> Sorry brother, you came out swinging, you had an agenda to promote GAL, and you got called out with facts.  I dare you to refute anything I said.  Do you realize how easily you just glossed over ECRL, Discovery, CSL, and SDDA and annointed GAL as the undisputed 2nd best league? You did that, not me.  Own it.


Bottom line,college coaches and scouts look for ball skill, speed, flexibility, soccer IQ, style of play. Players need to work on those things and play against the best competition they can.  A player can look great against a slower less skilled team than if they play against a highly skilled, fast, smart team. College coaches and scouts know this and will look for the most talented player, period.


----------



## happy9

Copa9 said:


> Bottom line,college coaches and scouts look for ball skill, speed, flexibility, soccer IQ, style of play. Players need to work on those things and play against the best competition they can. * A player can look great against a slower less skilled team than if they play against a highly skilled, fast, smart team*. College coaches and scouts know this and will look for the most talented player, period.


Absolutely, it's why coaches want to see continuous video of games as opposed to clips showcasing your skills.  How well you play against top competition is key.  I always wonder why parents, already in a good league, on a good team, want to move their player to the best team.  College coaches/YNT scouts don't care about score, many times don't care about record.  They care about talent, they care about fit, style of play, and what holes they have to fill on their rosters.


----------



## Justafan

Hugh Jasol said:


> I do not see any facts in your post above. It appears that you are claiming your observations as facts. I asked a question that was based on my observations but am not so out of touch to ever call my observations facts.


"Why would certain clubs put top teams in ECRL instead of GA?"  Assumes fact that GA is better than ECRL.  

"[D]isservice . . . on those top teams to play a bunch of second teams."  Not only assumes GA is better than ECRL, but says those 2nd teams suck.  Those are intentionally charged words.  Something about this structure is pissing you off.  My guess is your dd plays in GA.

"econd teams playing GA making out like bandits in terms of level of play?"  Not exactly sure what this means, but again charged words means your're talking shit.

"Will they go all in with GA or keep trying for ECNL and keep having the top teams play inferior competition?"  Again charged words assuming GA is SUPERIOR to ECRL.

"It might make sense for them to go all in on GA if ECNL politics keep them out again?"  Assumes GA is 2nd best to ECNL.  

See the pattern here, "bunch of second teams," "making out like bandits," & "inferior competition," those are all your words.  You didn't just "ask" a question, you were talking shit, so f'n own it.


----------



## Hugh Jasol

Justafan said:


> "Why would certain clubs put top teams in ECRL instead of GA?"  Assumes fact that GA is better than ECRL.
> 
> "[D]isservice . . . on those top teams to play a bunch of second teams."  Not only assumes GA is better than ECRL, but says those 2nd teams suck.  Those are intentionally charged words.  Something about this structure is pissing you off.  My guess is your dd plays in GA.
> 
> "econd teams playing GA making out like bandits in terms of level of play?"  Not exactly sure what this means, but again charged words means your're talking shit.
> 
> "Will they go all in with GA or keep trying for ECNL and keep having the top teams play inferior competition?"  Again charged words assuming GA is SUPERIOR to ECRL.
> 
> "It might make sense for them to go all in on GA if ECNL politics keep them out again?"  Assumes GA is 2nd best to ECNL.
> 
> See the pattern here, "bunch of second teams," "making out like bandits," & "inferior competition," those are all your words.  You didn't just "ask" a question, you were talking shit, so f'n own it.


You assume quite a bit. My DD is 10 but does play at one of the ECRL and GA Clubs. My concern is that the best players at the club might not be playing the highest level competition available at the club because of wishful thinking at the club to some day be granted ECNL.


----------



## Ellejustus

Hugh Jasol said:


> You assume quite a bit. *My DD is 10* but does play at one of the ECRL and GA Clubs. My concern is that the best players at the club might not be playing the highest level competition available at the club because of wishful thinking at the club to some day be granted ECNL.


That makes more sense.  If you were talking u17, I have some extra kool aide left over from all the free packets I got with my free GDA handout back in 2017-2018.  The kool aid I got bro, was pure as it ever was.  The stuff they make now is with fake sugar I'm told.


----------



## dad4

Hugh Jasol said:


> You assume quite a bit. My DD is 10 but does play at one of the ECRL and GA Clubs. My concern is that the best players at the club might not be playing the highest level competition available at the club because of wishful thinking at the club to some day be granted ECNL.


Give it some time to shake out.  If ECNL is smart, they will take the top GA teams well before the 2010s go U13.  If ECNL stays stubborn, then GA will have the critical mass it needs to grow.  Either way you’ll be fine.

DD here is also 2010.  Hope they get back to games soon.


----------



## soccerfan123

dad4 said:


> Give it some time to shake out.  If ECNL is smart, they will take the top GA teams well before the 2010s go U13.  If ECNL stays stubborn, then GA will have the critical mass it needs to grow.  Either way you’ll be fine.
> 
> DD here is also 2010.  Hope they get back to games soon.


ECNL is smart and have proved that over the last 10 years. And they may do that but it will be only the top 1 or 2 performing clubs in each region as space is limited jus as it should be for the elite league - so theyll still be people crying if their dd isnt good enough to make 1 of those rosters


----------



## dad4

soccerfan123 said:


> ECNL is smart and have proved that over the last 10 years. And they may do that but it will be only the top 1 or 2 performing clubs in each region as space is limited jus as it should be for the elite league - so theyll still be people crying if their dd isnt good enough to make 1 of those rosters


If ECNL were smart, they would have added all the top DA clubs and GA wouldn’t even exist.

As it is, they left out high profile clubs like Legends and Top Hat, giving GA a core to form around.


----------



## Ellejustus

dad4 said:


> If ECNL were smart, they would have added all the top DA clubs and GA wouldn’t even exist.
> 
> As it is, they left out high profile clubs like Legends and Top Hat, giving GA a core to form around.


Or, if the GDA made smarter biz decisions and open to listening to others in 2016, they would have made hs soccer a part of their philosophy.  Nope, they tried to destroy a tradition and they got nailed for it imo.  Took to much power and when folks get power, they get drunk with power.


----------



## happy9

Ellejustus said:


> Or, if the GDA made smarter biz decisions and open to listening to others in 2016,* they would have made hs soccer a part of their philosophy*.  Nope, they tried to destroy a tradition and they got nailed for it imo.  Took to much power and when folks get power, they get drunk with power.


Certainly true.  The irony is they were honestly moving in that direction - allowing HS play and eliminating the sub rule.  That was already being disseminated to clubs across the country, who were in turn telling parents the intent for the fall 20 season and beyond.  It would have eliminated a major obstacle for incoming freshman girls to play in the GDA.  The GDA was collateral damage for issues way beyond their control. Towards the end, those committed to the women's game tried everything they could to stay afloat.  Money talks, just the way it goes.  

At the core of the GDA, it was always about the YNTs.  And it still is for US soccer.  College was a by product, and a good one at that.  The message from US soccer remains  philosophy, style, commitment - talent is a given.  ECNL is a different animal, driven by different ideas, with the central tenant being getting as many girls into college as it can.  Absolutely nothing wrong with that.  The pathway to the YNTs is very, very narrow.  Doing this kind of stuff is hard, youth sports are political and being able to sell your platform is what makes the money.


----------



## Desert Hound

dad4 said:


> If ECNL were smart, they would have added all the top DA clubs and GA wouldn’t even exist.
> 
> As it is, they left out high profile clubs like Legends and Top Hat, giving GA a core to form around.


I suspect you will see ECNL pick up a few in the SW for next year. 

Beach, Pats, Legends and West Coast. 

Why?
Well for starters all 4 are in the girls ECRL league. 

Then all 4 are in Boys ECNL and ECRL. 

Seems like they are making their play to be full on ECNL clubs.


----------



## LB Mom 78

Desert Hound said:


> I suspect you will see ECNL pick up a few in the SW for next year.
> 
> Beach, Pats, Legends and West Coast.
> 
> Why?
> Well for starters all 4 are in the girls ECRL league.
> 
> Then all 4 are in Boys ECNL and ECRL.
> 
> Seems like they are making their play to be full on ECNL clubs.


Would ECNL have to kick some existing SW clubs out to make room?  My understanding is field space is a major obstacle to adding too many teams.


----------



## Ellejustus

happy9 said:


> Certainly true.  1. *The irony is they were honestly moving in that direction - allowing HS play and eliminating the sub rule.*  That was already being disseminated to clubs across the country, who were in turn telling parents the intent for the fall 20 season and beyond.  It would have eliminated a major obstacle for incoming freshman girls to play in the GDA.  The GDA was collateral damage for issues way beyond their control. Towards the end, those committed to the women's game tried everything they could to stay afloat.  2. *Money talks, just the way it goes.
> 
> 3. At the core of the GDA, it was always about the YNTs. * And it still is for US soccer.  College was a by product, and a good one at that.  The message from US soccer remains  philosophy, style, commitment - talent is a given. * 4. ECNL is a different animal,* driven by different ideas, with the central tenant being getting as many girls into college as it can.  Absolutely nothing wrong with that.  The pathway to the YNTs is very, very narrow.  Doing this kind of stuff is hard, youth sports are political and being able to sell your platform is what makes the money.


1. I know, I was told the same thing every year from the top GDA Docs.  It never happened and we will never truly know.  Some cheated and got to do both and that wasn;t very fair, rule breakers.....
2. Money talks big time and Mr Franklin is well liked in America.  The root of all evil some say is
3. I agree the GDA was about business and using the ynt list to grow their numbers of paying customers and ECNL was a about a business for college
4. ECNL sells access to college help, GDA sold access to the YNT list.


----------



## dad4

LB Mom 78 said:


> Would ECNL have to kick some existing SW clubs out to make room?  My understanding is field space is a major obstacle to adding too many teams.


Field space strikes me as a red herring.  The sort of thing you say when you cant admit the real reason.

Even counting all ECNL and the top 20 DA clubs, you're only talking 130 or so teams per age group.   They only play one game per day, so it is 65 games per age group, max.  That's tiny.


----------



## Dubs

LB Mom 78 said:


> Would ECNL have to kick some existing SW clubs out to make room?  My understanding is field space is a major obstacle to adding too many teams.


They don't kick out necessarily to make room... however, if you aren't showing a level of success commensurate with their requirements they will drop you.  That's how it used to work anyway.


----------



## futboldad1

LB Mom 78 said:


> Would ECNL have to kick some existing SW clubs out to make room?  My understanding is field space is a major obstacle to adding too many teams.


Very unlikely.... based on performance stats, Arsenal and Sharks would both be at risk in the SW but I think it's highly unlikely ECNL kicks out underperforming clubs like that...... if Beach and Legends get added in 12 months they will likely just split to two conferences like the NW, easy to do as I don't see what the low performing ex-DA clubs would add except dilution.....


----------



## happy9

Ellejustus said:


> 1. I know, I was told the same thing every year from the top GDA Docs.  It never happened and we will never truly know.  Some cheated and got to do both and that wasn;t very fair, rule breakers.....
> *2. Money talks big time and Mr Franklin is well liked in America.  The root of all evil some say is
> 3. I agree the GDA was about business and using the ynt list to grow their numbers of paying customers and ECNL was a about a business for college
> 4. ECNL sells access to college help, GDA sold access to the YNT list.*


Spot on! About as simple an explanation as it gets.  I would say the GDA clubs sold the access, the Federation needed access to continue to build a pipeline  and wanted a codified way to influence clubs to develop talent that is compatible with philosophy from the ground up - the need is real.  Some GDA clubs were compliant with curriculum, many were not.  It was destined to fail without full buy in.  Some clubs abused the GDA label and used it as a money grab. And of course, parents.

It works in many, many countries, we  just don't have futbol patience, we want instant gratification.  Takes more than 10 years to build a national youth program.  Look at the actual Talent ID staffers on the girls side, mostly former foreign players.  Their perspective is different. I surely do not have a recommendation for what the right answer is.  Maybe there isn't one.  We don't really care about soccer unless it's the olympics or the world cup.  MLS does well but will never compare to traditional sports.

The YNT pathway is soooo narrow, at least a great byproduct was college. Every parent thinks their kid should be on the YNT pathway, most will not set foot on the pathway. 

If your child is good, your club coach has a relationship with college coaches, and you have access to showcases, then you are in good shape.  Pay the dollars for ECNL and now GA to help, or not.  It's good to have choices.  YNTs are an entirely different commitment for parents and kids and that is clearly laid out and emphasized at every camp/ID center, etc.

The women's side will continue to chug along even though the rest of the world is starting to catch up a bit.  The men's side is a disaster, proof is in the record.

I've spent way too much time on here today (LOL), I should at least get some work done.


----------



## Golazo

Justafan said:


> Somebody take away this guy's Kool-Aid please.  Brother you're missing everything.  What makes you think GAL is even better than Discovery?  Simi where are you, this is the whole DPL discussion all over again.  Hate to break it to you, but GAL may be the 4th best league after 1) ECNL, 2) ECRL, a very close second, 3) Discovery/GAL, 4) GAL/Discovery.
> 
> ECRL will annihilate GAL and in my opinion can give ECNL a run for its money.  *You have Beach, Legends, Pats, and West Coast FC's top teams* and then you have Surf & Blues' 2nd teams which are very, very good teams.
> 
> *GAL has Beach, Legends, Pats, & WCFC's 2nd teams*.  Beach and Legends 2nd teams are also very good, but they are in a mix with many other "very good" teams.  Pats & WCFC's 2nd teams are not as good as Beach and Legends 2nd teams and then you have 5 bottom tier former DA teams. These teams are probably in the "very good" tier of teams IF they stick together and don't lose player to ECNL.  The kicker is City SC.  If they stay intact then that's an excellent team.


It appears at least one of these former DA clubs will be putting their former DA teams in the GA league and their previous DPL teams in ECRL. Possibly more will follow suit. The question is whether the GA teams (former DA teams) will retain players and if those teams will recruit well enough to be as competitive in the coming season as they once were. The amount of movement from DA to ECNL in SoCal suggests otherwise.


----------



## Surf Zombie

Golazo said:


> It appears at least one of these former DA clubs will be putting their former DA teams in the GA league and their previous DPL teams in ECRL. Possibly more will follow suit. The question is whether the GA teams (former DA teams) will retain players and if those teams will recruit well enough to be as competitive in the coming season as they once were. The amount of movement from DA to ECNL in SoCal suggests otherwise.


Which club is going that route?


----------



## RJonesUSC

Golazo said:


> It appears at least one of these former DA clubs will be putting their former DA teams in the GA league and their previous DPL teams in ECRL. Possibly more will follow suit. The question is whether the GA teams (former DA teams) will retain players and if those teams will recruit well enough to be as competitive in the coming season as they once were. The amount of movement from DA to ECNL in SoCal suggests otherwise.


I know one that is doing the same thing...most likely.


----------



## ToonArmy

Surf Zombie said:


> Which club is going that route?


WC I am guessing by a tryout post I saw for a GA team was a former DA team and coach previous year


----------



## Copa9

dad4 said:


> If ECNL were smart, they would have added all the top DA clubs and GA wouldn’t even exist.
> 
> As it is, they left out high profile clubs like Legends and Top Hat, giving GA a core to form around.


They left off quite a few others.  Teams in top leagues that had teams in the bottom half frequently had very close games with a difference of one goal determining outcome.  Those teams usually dominated teams at the showcases from other leagues. There was a lot of politics going on.


----------



## futboldad1

Surf Zombie said:


> Which club is going that route?


one who struggled in GDA and has realized they have no shot at dominating ECRL and therefore getting ECNL.... so WC or Pats......


----------



## happy9

futboldad1 said:


> one who struggled in GDA and has realized they have no shot at dominating ECRL and therefore getting ECNL.... so WC or Pats......


OC surf/WC certainly struggled, Pats on the other hand hung tough, always competitive.  They played very well building out of the back, just always had trouble finishing.  They always stayed true to their style.  Coaches love that. Finishing can be worked on.  Always interesting to look at individual team goal differential.  Records don't always tell the whole story - The Pats are a solid club and would do well in either ECNL or the GA.  If their top team played in ECRL, I don't think they would have much of a problem.  I would put them towards the top.  They held their own across the age groups against the top socal teams in the DA who are now in ECNL.  We will see which way they truly lean.  I don't have any insider information on any team but I would guess they want to play the best competition available, for the sake of their players that are in the recruiting cycle. What happens after a year to two is anyone's guess.  

The idea that the GA is a second rate league filled with also rans is pretty silly.  Until a comprehensive/consolidated approach can be figured out for youth soccer, there is room for two leagues who claim to be the best at what they do.  We will leave it up to the parents to argue or advocate for their league.  Both leagues are happy to take our money and college coaches will continue to recruit (we hope).

It would be nice for the leagues to meet on the pitch every once in a while to add fuel to the fire.


----------



## SoccerLocker

Seems as if it was considered an inferior product you would see the USYNT players whose clubs went GA leaving in droves for ECNL.  Haven't seen that happen yet.


----------



## Ellejustus

happy9 said:


> OC surf/WC certainly struggled, Pats on the other hand hung tough, always competitive.  They played very well building out of the back, *just always had trouble finishing.*  They always stayed true to their style.  Coaches love that. Finishing can be worked on.  Always interesting to look at individual team goal differential.  Records don't always tell the whole story - The Pats are a solid club and would do well in either ECNL or the GA.  *If their top team played in ECRL, I don't think they would have much of a problem*.  I would put them towards the top.  They held their own across the age groups against the top socal teams in the DA who are now in ECNL.  We will see which way they truly lean.  I don't have any insider information on any team but I would guess they want to play the best competition available, for the sake of their players that are in the recruiting cycle. What happens after a year to two is anyone's guess.
> 
> The idea that the GA is a second rate league filled with also rans is pretty silly.  Until a comprehensive/consolidated approach can be figured out for youth soccer, there is room for two leagues who claim to be the best at what they do.  We will leave it up to the parents to argue or advocate for their league.  Both leagues are happy to take our money and college coaches will continue to recruit (we hope).
> 
> It would be nice for the leagues to meet on the pitch every once in a while to add fuel to the fire.


Pats 04 team is very good.  I liked talking with their coaches a few years ago.  I always said to my wife and still think they had the right thing going with the GDA.  I will only say this Happy, you have to finish to win.  Pats have a very solid team and will be a tough opponent in any league.


----------



## futboldad1

SoccerLocker said:


> Seems as if it was considered an inferior product you would see the USYNT players whose clubs went GA leaving in droves for ECNL.  Haven't seen that happen yet.


huh? Many have either left or their clubs now are in the ecnl (or ecrl) so they didn’t need to ..... ask around..... sure several remain and GA will shout that from the rooftops which is understandable when trying to gain traction.... AS is top top

here’s the thing..... ga will be fine and may end up being the second best league in the us which is nothing to be ashamed of.... but to argue there’s “two top leagues” like happy9 goes against common sense..... if you’re happy with ga then be happy with it no need to try justify it..... I’m sure our DDs are just happy to start playing again and then we can go back to cheering them on wherever they are playing


----------



## happy9

Ellejustus said:


> Pats 04 team is very good.  I liked talking with their coaches a few years ago.  I always said to my wife and still think they had the right thing going with the GDA.  I will only say this Happy, you have to finish to win.  Pats have a very solid team and will be a tough opponent in any league.


No argument from me, in order to win, ball has to go in the back of the other teams net.  With that said, their back lines tend to be very talented, posses the ball exceptionally well, and do a great job of distribution.  If you love futbol, that is a pleasure to watch.  Good on them and great for their futures.  It's fun to win and we should want to win.  At the end of the day, college coaches just don't really care about the winning piece.  Desire, the ganas, to win is higher up on their list.


----------



## Ellejustus

happy9 said:


> No argument from me, in order to win, ball has to go in the back of the other teams net.  With that said, their back lines tend to be very talented, posses the ball exceptionally well, and do a great job of distribution.  *If you love futbol, that is a pleasure to watch*.  Good on them and great for their futures.  It's fun to win and we should want to win.  At the end of the day, college coaches just don't really care about the winning piece.  Desire, the ganas, to win is higher up on their list.


Yes, I love Futbol and my dd had the pleasure to battle Pats twice in her career.  Defensive back line is one of the best in the age group.  Numbers dont lie and GDA goal against is excellent!!


----------



## happy9

futboldad1 said:


> huh?* Many* have either left or their clubs now are in the ecnl (or ecrl) so they didn’t need to ..... ask around..... sure *several *remain and GA will shout that from the rooftops which is understandable when trying to gain traction.... AS is top top
> 
> here’s the thing..... ga will be fine and may end up being the second best league in the us which is nothing to be ashamed of.... but to argue there’s *“two top leagues” like happy9 goes against common sense*..... if you’re happy with ga then be happy with it no need to try justify it..... I’m sure our DDs are just happy to start playing again and then we can go back to cheering them on wherever they are playing


Such a circular argument and one that we will likely never even resolve.  Besides, you misquoted me.  I never said two top leagues, I said "there is room for two leagues who claim to be the best at what they do" .  I will leave it up to parents and DOCs to blabber about which one is better. Sell, Sell,Sell.  Bias always skews perception of common sense.  There are plenty of YNT players that stayed in the GA.  Some went with their teams to ECNL, a function of what the clubs did. 

If you want your child to be on a YNT pathway, seek out a coach/club with the YNT relationship and that plays a style adhere to principles that the YNT cadre teach on the pitch.  If that coach/club is in ECNL, go there, if they are in the GA, go there, if they are in another league, go there.  Look beyond the white noise of preferential treatment and really look at what type of player they are looking for, what particular skill sets they look for, etc.  It's a real thing.  Being a YNT child is hard, hard on the child and the parents.


----------



## futboldad1

happy9 said:


> Such a circular argument and one that we will likely never even resolve.  Besides, you misquoted me.  I never said two top leagues, I said "there is room for two leagues who claim to be the best at what they do" .  *I will leave it up to parents and DOCs to blabber about which one is better. Sell, Sell,Sell.  Bias always skews perception of common sense.*  There are plenty of YNT players that stayed in the GA.  Some went with their teams to ECNL, a function of what the clubs did.
> 
> If you want your child to be on a YNT pathway, seek out a coach/club with the YNT relationship and that plays a style adhere to principles that the YNT cadre teach on the pitch.  If that coach/club is in ECNL, go there, if they are in the GA, go there, if they are in another league, go there.  Look beyond the white noise of preferential treatment and really look at what type of player they are looking for, what particular skill sets they look for, etc.  It's a real thing.  Being a YNT child is hard, hard on the child and the parents.


With respect, I'd sorta check yourself there, you've shilled GAL since arriving on this forum.... that's fine, but call it like it is..... 

Most of your post I agree with, I am not sure if my DD will get any kind of proper YNT call other than training centers... I just want her to develop to the best of her ability while having fun, and playing the hardest opponents every week is the best way to do that.....


----------



## happy9

futboldad1 said:


> *With respect, I'd sorta check yourself there, you've shilled GAL since arriving on this forum.... that's fine, but call it like it is.....*
> 
> Most of your post I agree with, I am not sure if my DD will get any kind of proper YNT call other than training centers... I just want her to develop to the best of her ability while having fun, and playing the hardest opponents every week is the best way to do that.....


You can call it what you perceive.  I'm sure you know what a shill is. I certainly don't have anything hitched to the GA, or ECNL.  I'm likely just like you, ,a little more time on my hands now that I'm working more from my home office. Like a stated previously, bias skews perception. If I were to be accused of being a shill for anyone, it would be US soccer and the YNT program (within the context of the definition of a shill).  I believe in it and hope the YNTs come back sooner rather than later, in  spite of the BS associated with the federation.  I want the GA to succeed, who wouldn't?  There are DDs all over the country who just want to get back on the pitch.  Adults will find a way to make that harder rather than easier.  

 Let's have a heated and fun discussion about soccer, leave the personal stuff out.  Everyone knows that parents and clubs think their league is the best league.  Nothing wrong with being proud of your league.  Have at it, and if you move teams/leagues, it's ok to think the new, shinier one is better.


----------



## Ellejustus

happy9 said:


> You can call it what you perceive.  I'm sure you know what a shill is. I certainly don't have anything hitched to the GA, or ECNL.  I'm likely just like you, ,a little more time on my hands now that I'm working more from my home office. Like a stated previously, bias skews perception. I*f I were to be accused of being a shill for anyone, it would be US soccer and the YNT program (within the context of the definition of a shill).  I believe in it and hope the YNTs come back sooner rather than later, in  spite of the BS associated with the federation.*  I want the GA to succeed, who wouldn't?  There are DDs all over the country who just want to get back on the pitch.  Adults will find a way to make that harder rather than easier.
> 
> Let's have a heated and fun discussion about soccer, leave the personal stuff out.  Everyone knows that parents and clubs think their league is the best league.  Nothing wrong with being proud of your league.  Have at it, and if you move teams/leagues, it's ok to think the new, shinier one is better.


I'm starting to like you.  Please share what you mean with what I put in bold.  I used to think it was all one big happy family and we cared about little 13 year old's with happy dreams of one day making the u14 national team.  Please enlighten me with the facts and not my perceptions I've had for the last three years.  Please tell me more about how the federation put those lists together.  I know now the Docs were the decision makers and that is not good at all imo.  I hope the coaches can pick.  Plus, I like what @Giesbock had to say about not naming names and clubs.  Just numbers.  Too much inside tracks with those track suit coaches.  My dd and I got a bad taste of that sh*t but were still hanging on by a thread because SHE loves to play with her friends and try to win.  She plays to win, not for the list or a college deal.  That should be praised and encouraged imo.....I will wait to hear your takes and perceptions.


----------



## happy9

Ellejustus said:


> I'm starting to like you.  Please share what you mean with what I put in bold.  I used to think it was all one big happy family and we cared about little 13 year old's with happy dreams of one day making the u14 national team.  Please enlighten me with the facts and not my perceptions I've had for the last three years.  Please tell me more about how the federation put those lists together.  I know now the Docs were the decision makers and that is not good at all imo.  I hope the coaches can pick.  Plus, I like what @Giesbock had to say about not naming names and clubs.  Just numbers.  Too much inside tracks with those track suit coaches.  My dd and I got a bad taste of that sh*t but were still hanging on by a thread because SHE loves to play with her friends and try to win.  She plays to win, not for the list or a college deal.  That should be praised and encouraged imo.....I will wait to hear your takes and perceptions.


Full disclosure, my DD is a YNT pool kid.  I'm not going to mention club/state/DOC, etc.  No need to unjustly scrutinize relationships, scenarios, unproven biases, etc. 

The process is always under scrutiny and has likely been abused by clubs.  In my experience, the scouts and the staff coaches have seemed objective, and they do their research.  You are correct that the coaches/DOCs are the decision makers in the context of who they recommend from their own teams.  It doesn't mean that's who actually attends an ID center.  Scouts will observe everyone on the pitch, not just the recommended kid.  Do some DOCs have more pull than others? sure, especially if they have a track record of grooming YNT kids.  Kinda of like Calipari at University of Kentucky.  If he calls an NBA team to come out and scout, they come.  He has a proven track record of identifying talent and having them succeed at the next level.  Same thing goes for the YNT staff/scouts and relationships with clubs/DOCs.

The savy scouts know where to look and they don't just rely on clubs/coaches.  Their end state is higher stakes than a college scout/coach.  College coaches can get fat and lazy, show up to a ________(fill in the blank for the letter league)  showcase, and recruit a year group. The pipeline for the USWNT is higher stakes, and they tend to take it more seriously. 

For now, the YNT staff has done a great job of keeping in touch with the kids and keeping a finger on their pulse.  The clubs are not involved, there is a direct line to the kids and that's the way the staff likes to operate.  I sat in on one this week (in the background, in another room where I was banished to by my DD).  I can't overemphasize enough how much they emphasize that this is a process, it's hard, and it's not for everyone, even if you think it's for you.  What I really like about what they do is the complete removal of the parents from the process.  I didn't receive an email telling me about this meeting.  I didn't even know about it until the day before.  The regional camp (@Chula Vista) is run like this as well.  Parents are generally not allowed to attend any sessions.  The only sessions that are open to the public is the last session, and that's from a distance.  Zero interaction with your child as they step off of the field. If your daughter flies in, they pick her up at the airport and transport her.  You put them on the plane on your end.  If you drive, it's drop off at the front, a kiss and a wave. 

YNT is not for everyone, for the very few in fact.  Will my DD make it through the pipeline?  who knows.  She may change her mind when the YNT thing really begins to intrude on her social life, because it will.  Will she ever get called up to a team?  Who knows.  YNT staff is brutally honest in their feedback, especially after camps.  NO feedback is offered after ID centers, only camps. You have to be in for the long haul and have to do well with rejection and feedback that describes your weaknesses.  Negative feedback can be a challenge for high level athletes, some do well, some don't.  It is a long term grind.  Next step for my DD is to be called to a national camp (if selected), she's made the regional camp.  Long term, the next big step is being age eligible for the U17 world cup in 2022.  That is a lot to consider for someone so young.

If she decides it's not for her, fine.  If she's not good enough to be called to a team, fine.  She loves to play futbol but she's a damn good b-ball player and mountain biker.  I'd honestly be most happiest if she quit everything and raced mountain bikes for her HS team.  It would allow me to justify all the hours I spend on my bike to my wife.  But that's just me being selfish. 

Lastly, and this if for anyone that read this, if you think your kid has what it takes, send the YNT staff an email.  They'll read it and likely reply.  They are always on the lookout for talent.  Be prepared to have an honest conversation about your kid, style of play, futbol IQ, and their current environment. 

Now back to work - this was my early lunch break!!


----------



## Dubs

happy9 said:


> Full disclosure, my DD is a YNT pool kid.  I'm not going to mention club/state/DOC, etc.  No need to unjustly scrutinize relationships, scenarios, unproven biases, etc.
> 
> The process is always under scrutiny and has likely been abused by clubs.  In my experience, the scouts and the staff coaches have seemed objective, and they do their research.  You are correct that the coaches/DOCs are the decision makers in the context of who they recommend from their own teams.  It doesn't mean that's who actually attends an ID center.  Scouts will observe everyone on the pitch, not just the recommended kid.  Do some DOCs have more pull than others? sure, especially if they have a track record of grooming YNT kids.  Kinda of like Calipari at University of Kentucky.  If he calls an NBA team to come out and scout, they come.  He has a proven track record of identifying talent and having them succeed at the next level.  Same thing goes for the YNT staff/scouts and relationships with clubs/DOCs.
> 
> The savy scouts know where to look and they don't just rely on clubs/coaches.  Their end state is higher stakes than a college scout/coach.  College coaches can get fat and lazy, show up to a ________(fill in the blank for the letter league)  showcase, and recruit a year group. The pipeline for the USWNT is higher stakes, and they tend to take it more seriously.
> 
> For now, the YNT staff has done a great job of keeping in touch with the kids and keeping a finger on their pulse.  The clubs are not involved, there is a direct line to the kids and that's the way the staff likes to operate.  I sat in on one this week (in the background, in another room where I was banished to by my DD).  I can't overemphasize enough how much they emphasize that this is a process, it's hard, and it's not for everyone, even if you think it's for you.  What I really like about what they do is the complete removal of the parents from the process.  I didn't receive an email telling me about this meeting.  I didn't even know about it until the day before.  The regional camp (@Chula Vista) is run like this as well.  Parents are generally not allowed to attend any sessions.  The only sessions that are open to the public is the last session, and that's from a distance.  Zero interaction with your child as they step off of the field. If your daughter flies in, they pick her up at the airport and transport her.  You put them on the plane on your end.  If you drive, it's drop off at the front, a kiss and a wave.
> 
> YNT is not for everyone, for the very few in fact.  Will my DD make it through the pipeline?  who knows.  She may change her mind when the YNT thing really begins to intrude on her social life, because it will.  Will she ever get called up to a team?  Who knows.  YNT staff is brutally honest in their feedback, especially after camps.  NO feedback is offered after ID centers, only camps. You have to be in for the long haul and have to do well with rejection and feedback that describes your weaknesses.  Negative feedback can be a challenge for high level athletes, some do well, some don't.  It is a long term grind.  Next step for my DD is to be called to a national camp (if selected), she's made the regional camp.  Long term, the next big step is being age eligible for the U17 world cup in 2022.  That is a lot to consider for someone so young.
> 
> If she decides it's not for her, fine.  If she's not good enough to be called to a team, fine.  She loves to play futbol but she's a damn good b-ball player and mountain biker.  I'd honestly be most happiest if she quit everything and raced mountain bikes for her HS team.  It would allow me to justify all the hours I spend on my bike to my wife.  But that's just me being selfish.
> 
> Lastly, and this if for anyone that read this, if you think your kid has what it takes, send the YNT staff an email.  They'll read it and likely reply.  They are always on the lookout for talent.  Be prepared to have an honest conversation about your kid, style of play, futbol IQ, and their current environment.
> 
> Now back to work - this was my early lunch break!!


Are you saying you wrote the YNT staff regarding your DD?  That is something new.  I've never heard of anyone doing that.... typically a red flag when a parent reaches out...particularly at that level.


----------



## happy9

Dubs said:


> Are you saying you wrote the YNT staff regarding your DD?  That is something new.  I've never heard of anyone doing that.... typically a red flag when a parent reaches out...particularly at that level.


Ha, no, not even close.  I'm just saying they have an email on their website that you can send to, if you want.  I also say that tongue in cheek because parents (myself included) seem to think our kid has what it takes.  Everyone is guilty.  I think my daughter is a better basketball player than what she really is, but that's because I coached her for many years.  I have zero background in soccer coaching.  

You are spot on about the red flag.  They really don't want to hear from parents about their own kids.


----------



## Ellejustus

happy9 said:


> Full disclosure, my DD is a YNT pool kid.  I'm not going to mention club/state/DOC, etc.  No need to unjustly scrutinize relationships, scenarios, unproven biases, etc.
> 
> The process is always under scrutiny and has likely been abused by clubs.  In my experience, the scouts and the staff coaches have seemed objective, and they do their research.  You are correct that the coaches/DOCs are the decision makers in the context of who they recommend from their own teams.  It doesn't mean that's who actually attends an ID center.  Scouts will observe everyone on the pitch, not just the recommended kid.  Do some DOCs have more pull than others? sure, especially if they have a track record of grooming YNT kids.  Kinda of like Calipari at University of Kentucky.  If he calls an NBA team to come out and scout, they come.  He has a proven track record of identifying talent and having them succeed at the next level.  Same thing goes for the YNT staff/scouts and relationships with clubs/DOCs.
> 
> The savy scouts know where to look and they don't just rely on clubs/coaches.  Their end state is higher stakes than a college scout/coach.  College coaches can get fat and lazy, show up to a ________(fill in the blank for the letter league)  showcase, and recruit a year group. The pipeline for the USWNT is higher stakes, and they tend to take it more seriously.
> 
> For now, the YNT staff has done a great job of keeping in touch with the kids and keeping a finger on their pulse.  The clubs are not involved, there is a direct line to the kids and that's the way the staff likes to operate.  I sat in on one this week (in the background, in another room where I was banished to by my DD).  I can't overemphasize enough how much they emphasize that this is a process, it's hard, and it's not for everyone, even if you think it's for you.  What I really like about what they do is the complete removal of the parents from the process.  I didn't receive an email telling me about this meeting.  I didn't even know about it until the day before.  The regional camp (@Chula Vista) is run like this as well.  Parents are generally not allowed to attend any sessions.  The only sessions that are open to the public is the last session, and that's from a distance.  Zero interaction with your child as they step off of the field. If your daughter flies in, they pick her up at the airport and transport her.  You put them on the plane on your end.  If you drive, it's drop off at the front, a kiss and a wave.
> 
> YNT is not for everyone, for the very few in fact.  Will my DD make it through the pipeline?  who knows.  She may change her mind when the YNT thing really begins to intrude on her social life, because it will.  Will she ever get called up to a team?  Who knows.  YNT staff is brutally honest in their feedback, especially after camps.  NO feedback is offered after ID centers, only camps. You have to be in for the long haul and have to do well with rejection and feedback that describes your weaknesses.  Negative feedback can be a challenge for high level athletes, some do well, some don't.  It is a long term grind.  Next step for my DD is to be called to a national camp (if selected), she's made the regional camp.  Long term, the next big step is being age eligible for the U17 world cup in 2022.  That is a lot to consider for someone so young.
> 
> If she decides it's not for her, fine.  If she's not good enough to be called to a team, fine.  She loves to play futbol but she's a damn good b-ball player and mountain biker.  I'd honestly be most happiest if she quit everything and raced mountain bikes for her HS team.  It would allow me to justify all the hours I spend on my bike to my wife.  But that's just me being selfish.
> 
> Lastly, and this if for anyone that read this, if you think your kid has what it takes, send the YNT staff an email.  They'll read it and likely reply.  They are always on the lookout for talent.  Be prepared to have an honest conversation about your kid, style of play, futbol IQ, and their current environment.
> 
> Now back to work - this was my early lunch break!!


Thank you so much for this.  I have no reason to doubt you based on how you write.  I super appreciate it and I mean that.  Were you around in 2016 sir during the Wild West Recruiting Derby in SoCal?


----------



## Ellejustus

Dubs said:


> Are you saying you wrote the YNT staff regarding your DD?  That is something new.  I've never heard of anyone doing that.... typically a red flag when a parent reaches out...particularly at that level.


I almost said that.  I was told if you ever do that kiss that dream goodbye.  My dd got direct feedback from the Doc and her coach and that was it.  Doc was head TC Director as well.  No need to go there with you Happy.  PM me and I'll fill you in on the back drop


----------



## happy9

Ellejustus said:


> Thank you so much for this.  I have no reason to doubt you based on how you write.  I super appreciate it and I mean that.  Were you around in 2016 sir during the Wild West Recruiting Derby in SoCal?


No sir, my family and I were on the opposite coast back then, about to make our way back west of the Mississippi.


----------



## vegasguy

Are YNT camps actually going to occur?


----------



## Ellejustus

vegasguy said:


> Are YNT camps actually going to occur?


I took Happy's advise and I just emailed all the coaches from before and now and just asked why my goat was bypassed in 2017 and I also asked what the heck she can do to make up lost time and maybe make a future list.  I hear U17 and U20 only so she has some time.  @happy9, was I a fool to believe the Doc that their would actually be a U14 National team back in 2017 that actually would play against the likes of Spain and Brazil?  I understand things a lot better today and I appreciate all the help.


----------



## happy9

vegasguy said:


> Are YNT camps actually going to occur?


From what I understand, there will be an attempt to hold ID centers in 2020.  They will schedule true YNT camps for 2021.  Obviously everything is in a state of flux. 2020 was the first year their was a true YNT program for U14 girls.  The 06s will be age eligible for the 2022 U17 world cup.  I will be the first to admit I get somewhat confused by how they bracket the ages and how the progression within the pipeline occurs.


----------



## Soccerfan2

vegasguy said:


> Are YNT camps actually going to occur?


Nothing in calendar year 2020.


----------



## silverback

I believe U17 WC in 2022 will be 2005s. So 2006s would have to beat out 05s (which is possible I’m sure. 2026 U20 WC, 06s will be the older age group.


----------



## happy9

silverback said:


> I believe U17 WC in 2022 will be 2005s. So 2006s would have to beat out 05s (which is possible I’m sure. 2026 U20 WC, 06s will be the older age group.


Yep, you are right, 100% 05, but the 06s will be age eligible.  It's carrot for the 06s, especially for 06s that routinely play up.  No doubt it's very difficult.  For the right girl, it's a good goal.


----------



## Kicker4Life

happy9 said:


> No sir, my family and I were on the opposite coast back then, about to make our way back west of the Mississippi.


What age group is your DD?


----------



## happy9

Kicker4Life said:


> What age group is your DD?


She is an 06.


----------



## Goforgoal

GA announced the hiring of long time Huskies head coach Lesle Gallimore as commissioner today. Seems like a solid hire. I can't help but be hopeful for the success of this league.









						Girls Academy appoints Lesle Gallimore as first-ever Commissioner
					

The Girls Academy named Lesle Gallimore as Commissioner.




					www.soccerwire.com
				





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1276590241566973954


----------



## happy9

Goforgoal said:


> GA announced the hiring of long time Huskies head coach Lesle Gallimore as commissioner today. Seems like a solid hire. *I can't help but be hopeful for the success of this league.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Girls Academy appoints Lesle Gallimore as first-ever Commissioner
> 
> 
> The Girls Academy named Lesle Gallimore as Commissioner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soccerwire.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1276590241566973954


Good on them.  Appears to be a smart pick, an icon in the PAC 12.  Can only assume she is well respected across the woman's soccer landscape.  Slow and steady, we will see where this goes.


----------



## Copa9

happy9 said:


> OC surf/WC certainly struggled, Pats on the other hand hung tough, always competitive.  They played very well building out of the back, just always had trouble finishing.  They always stayed true to their style.  Coaches love that. Finishing can be worked on.  Always interesting to look at individual team goal differential.  Records don't always tell the whole story - The Pats are a solid club and would do well in either ECNL or the GA.  If their top team played in ECRL, I don't think they would have much of a problem.  I would put them towards the top.  They held their own across the age groups against the top socal teams in the DA who are now in ECNL.  We will see which way they truly lean.  I don't have any insider information on any team but I would guess they want to play the best competition available, for the sake of their players that are in the recruiting cycle. What happens after a year to two is anyone's guess.
> 
> The idea that the GA is a second rate league filled with also rans is pretty silly.  Until a comprehensive/consolidated approach can be figured out for youth soccer, there is room for two leagues who claim to be the best at what they do.  We will leave it up to the parents to argue or advocate for their league.  Both leagues are happy to take our money and college coaches will continue to recruit (we hope).
> 
> It would be nice for the leagues to meet on the pitch every once in a while to add fuel to the fire.


Gee interesting OC surf and Pats tied the last two times they played.


happy9 said:


> OC surf/WC certainly struggled, Pats on the other hand hung tough, always competitive.  They played very well building out of the back, just always had trouble finishing.  They always stayed true to their style.  Coaches love that. Finishing can be worked on.  Always interesting to look at individual team goal differential.  Records don't always tell the whole story - The Pats are a solid club and would do well in either ECNL or the GA.  If their top team played in ECRL, I don't think they would have much of a problem.  I would put them towards the top.  They held their own across the age groups against the top socal teams in the DA who are now in ECNL.  We will see which way they truly lean.  I don't have any insider information on any team but I would guess they want to play the best competition available, for the sake of their players that are in the recruiting cycle. What happens after a year to two is anyone's guess.
> 
> The idea that the GA is a second rate league filled with also rans is pretty silly.  Until a comprehensive/consolidated approach can be figured out for youth soccer, there is room for two leagues who claim to be the best at what they do.  We will leave it up to the parents to argue or advocate for their league.  Both leagues are happy to take our money and college coaches will continue to recruit (we hope).
> 
> It would be nice for the leagues to meet on the pitch every once in a while to add fuel to the fire.


I don't know what age group you are in, but in our age group OC Surf/WCFC  had one win and one tie with Pats. How many national championships have the Pats Girls had?  OC Surf/WC FC  have had in 24 years of competition 5 Girls national championships, 10+ Regional Championships, 25 National Players and 500+ athletic scholarships.  The girls Pats are an emerging league and improving every year but have not had the success of WCFC.  Sounds like you are a disgruntled parent of a player who was not picked for OCSurf/WCFC  DA teams last year or the year before and have left to join Pats.  Good luck to your player on which every college she decides to play for, which is what this journey is a major part of.


----------



## happy9

Copa9 said:


> Gee interesting OC surf and Pats tied the last two times they played.
> 
> I don't know what age group you are in, but in our age group OC Surf/WCFC  had one win and one tie with Pats. How many national championships have the Pats Girls had?  OC Surf/WC FC  have had in 24 years of competition 5 Girls national championships, 10+ Regional Championships, 25 National Players and 500+ athletic scholarships.  The girls Pats are an emerging league and improving every year but have not had the success of WCFC.  Sounds like you are a disgruntled parent of a player who was not picked for OCSurf/WCFC  DA teams last year or the year before and have left to join Pats.  Good luck to your player on which every college she decides to play for, which is what this journey is a major part of.


  Sorry if you are offended by last years standings in the GDA.  I don't buy into standings, but apparently you do.  If you look at last year, the Pats, across ALL age groups, were a solid team, OC Surf was inconsistent (in the standings).  Do they have great history?  Hell, I don't know, I guess I do now, awesome and congrats.  I hope they continue to rebuild.  Pats on paper was a middle of the pack GDA team, OC Surf towards the bottom.  By the way, we could argue the details until the cows come home.  I wish both clubs well in the development of their playes.

Look at their records across the board - consistency matter, if you are keeping track.  Generally speaking, any team can beat another team on any given day.

OC Surf GD: -47
Pat GD: +5


----------



## Ellejustus

happy9 said:


> Sorry if you are offended by last years standings in the GDA.  I don't buy into standings, but apparently you do.  If you look at last year, the Pats, across ALL age groups, were a solid team, OC Surf was inconsistent (in the standings).  Do they have great history?  Hell, I don't know, I guess I do now, awesome and congrats.  I hope they continue to rebuild.  Pats on paper was a middle of the pack GDA team, OC Surf towards the bottom.  By the way, we could argue the details until the cows come home.  I wish both clubs well in the development of their playes.
> 
> Look at their records across the board - consistency matter, if you are keeping track.  Generally speaking, any team can beat another team on any given day.
> 
> OC Surf GD: -47
> Pat GD: +5


Pats were the better club based on my observation.  Nice stats to back it up too.  That's important.


----------



## happy9

Copa9 said:


> Gee interesting OC surf and Pats tied the last two times they played.
> 
> I don't know what age group you are in, but in our age group OC Surf/WCFC  had one win and one tie with Pats. How many national championships have the Pats Girls had?  OC Surf/WC FC  have had in 24 years of competition 5 Girls national championships, 10+ Regional Championships, 25 National Players and 500+ athletic scholarships.  The girls Pats are an emerging league and improving every year but have not had the success of WCFC.  *Sounds like you are a disgruntled parent of a player who was not picked for OCSurf/WCFC  DA teams last year or the year before and have left to join Pats*.  Good luck to your player on which every college she decides to play for, which is what this journey is a major part of.


Easy big guy, I don't even live in CA but have played both teams over the last few years.  Great history lesson though. I had no idea and congrats to them.  It's good to see them go back to their roots and not depend on Surf for marketing.  Hometown brand is much cooler.

Enough with the personal attacks and talk girls futbol, much more fun that way as opposed to jumping in someone's ass.


----------



## happy9

Ellejustus said:


> Pats were the better club based on my observation.  Nice stats to back it up too.  That's important.


They are a solid club, would be proud if my daughter played for them - possession, skilled back line, disciplined, can't beat that.  That's hard to coach and hard to sell to parents.  You will lose games, especially at the younger ages by playing out of the back.  You have to commit and have patience - not a common trait for soccer parents.


----------



## Ellejustus

happy9 said:


> Easy big guy, I don't even live in CA but have played both teams over the last few years.  Great history lesson though. I had no idea and congrats to them.  It's good to see them go back to their roots and not depend on Surf for marketing.  Hometown brand is much cooler.
> 
> Enough with the personal attacks and talk girls futbol, much more fun that way as opposed to jumping in someone's ass.


Socal has crazy jealous and rich parents who are very pissed right now because they can't pay to play anymore in the top league and brag on Facebook that their kid is all that and on a GDA team.  They usually get what they want and if they can't have what they want, they will make sure to ruin it for you.


----------



## happy9

Ellejustus said:


> Socal has crazy jealous and rich parents who are very pissed right now because they can't pay to play anymore in the top league and brag on Facebook that their kid is all that and on a GDA team.  They usually get what they want and if they can't have what they want, *they will make sure to ruin it for you.*


Ha, that may be the case.  I try to not buy into the hype, but it's hard.  Find a club/coach that is good for your DD, be realistic in what they can accomplish, and let them play.  Letter leagues are happy to have the pot stirred to take your money, especially the money from those that have unrealistic goals.  Just the way it goes.  Both leagues will do just fine.  And if they don't, one league will remain standing and that's when we may truly have an elite league.  Until then, the fireworks will happen.


----------



## Copa9

happy9 said:


> Ha, that may be the case.  I try to not buy into the hype, but it's hard.  Find a club/coach that is good for your DD, be realistic in what they can accomplish, and let them play.  Letter leagues are happy to have the pot stirred to take your money, especially the money from those that have unrealistic goals.  Just the way it goes.  Both leagues will do just fine.  And if they don't, one league will remain standing and that's when we may truly have an elite league.  Until then, the fireworks will happen.


Well, dd will be signing her NLI in November barring covid interrupting.  Won't matter after that. Good luck to all the great WCFC players and to any other deserving players on being recruited!


----------



## Mullet

MMMM said:


> Mid-Atlantic GA might contend nationally if, as keeps being said on this board, DA/GA players from other regions are moving to ECNL teams. That’s not happening in much of the Mid-Atlantic.  That’s truly my only point.


This statement is fact for the Mid-Atlantic. NoVA ECNL clubs are generally quite week within the conference. Essentially, EACH club has ONE really good team and the rest are bottom dwellers. VDA is probably the strongest at the youngest age groups but as teams at McLean and BRYC age out they are shells of themselves due to dilution. The Carolina's are mediocre as well outside of the before mentioned new additions.


Ellejustus said:


> Or, if the GDA made smarter biz decisions and open to listening to others in 2016, they would have made hs soccer a part of their philosophy.  Nope, they tried to *destroy a tradition *and they got nailed for it imo.  Took to much power and when folks get power, they get drunk with power.


"A tradition?" 

Seriously? A decade is a "tradition" now? When did ECNL become Augusta National or Thanksgiving?


----------



## futboldad1

Mullet said:


> This statement is fact for the Mid-Atlantic. NoVA ECNL clubs are generally quite week within the conference. Essentially, EACH club has ONE really good team and the rest are bottom dwellers. VDA is probably the strongest at the youngest age groups but as teams at McLean and BRYC age out they are shells of themselves due to dilution. The Carolina's are mediocre as well outside of the before mentioned new additions.
> 
> "A tradition?"
> 
> Seriously? A decade is a "tradition" now? When did ECNL become Augusta National or Thanksgiving?


You really don't think girls HS soccer was a tradition?


----------



## Ellejustus

Mullet said:


> This statement is fact for the Mid-Atlantic. NoVA ECNL clubs are generally quite week within the conference. Essentially, EACH club has ONE really good team and the rest are bottom dwellers. VDA is probably the strongest at the youngest age groups but as teams at McLean and BRYC age out they are shells of themselves due to dilution. The Carolina's are mediocre as well outside of the before mentioned new additions.
> 
> "A tradition?"
> 
> Seriously?* A decade is a "tradition" now? When did ECNL become Augusta National or Thanksgiving?*


The tradition of playing High School Sports Mullet.  Did you play any sports in High School?  It looks like my dd never really got a chance to play in the GDA or the ECNL.  OH well   High School soccer has been the brightest spot for her and I think is a great way to play with your local friends and it's free.


----------



## Ellejustus

futboldad1 said:


> You really don't think girls HS soccer was a tradition?


I think Mullet was thinking I was referring to the ECNL like Augusta National or the Rose Bowl.  No, just the the freedom to choose to play travel ball and hs ball and not be told pick one or the other while all the rich kids at private schools got to do both.  I love private schools and rich people.  This shouldnt have been about either or for soccer for pete sakes.  Now, you cant go to charter school or home school.  This is insane!!!!


----------



## Mullet

Ellejustus said:


> The tradition of playing High School Sports Mullet.  Did you play any sports in High School?  It looks like my dd never really got a chance to play in the GDA or the ECNL.  OH well   High School soccer has been the brightest spot for her and I think is a great way to play with your local friends and it's free.


Is High School soccer really free if you are paying for 10 months of ECNL when you are only getting 6 months?

Here is what my take on ECNL and High School soccer is. Before DA ECNL coaches determined or granted permission for kids to play HS soccer. THis was based on the player and the value of the player to the team etc because the ECNL season was still 10 months long. Most ECNL coaches frowned upon their players playing in HS and actively discouraged it when they could.

Then when DA announced GDA and the same HS restrictions as the boys side ECNL saw an opportunity to distinguish themselves as the HS friendly league. They went as far as adjusting their schedules to allow for HS soccer. This has the effect of taking a 10 month training and league season of "elite" soccer and trimming it down to 6 months. So parents pay full ECNL price for a 1/3 less training with the best players to play free school soccer.

So now ECNL has painted themselves into a corner with their exuberant support of a non-league activity, coached by inferior coaches, played in an inferior style. And because the ECNL season is a dead period during HS if a kid wants to play soccer they have almost no choice but to play HS soccer now. And this equates to two very compressed seasons in a 10 month span. 

GA will allow HS soccer but up front have already stated, within our club, that it will be case by case basis the way ECNL USED to be. A GA season will not be overloaded with games in a compressed fashion to get the same number of games in 6 months when they can done in 10 months.


----------



## Ellejustus

Mullet said:


> Is High School soccer really free if you are paying for 10 months of ECNL when you are only getting 6 months?
> 
> Here is what my take on ECNL and High School soccer is. Before DA ECNL coaches determined or granted permission for kids to play HS soccer. THis was based on the player and the value of the player to the team etc because the ECNL season was still 10 months long. Most ECNL coaches frowned upon their players playing in HS and actively discouraged it when they could.
> 
> Then when DA announced GDA and the same HS restrictions as the boys side ECNL saw an opportunity to distinguish themselves as the HS friendly league. They went as far as adjusting their schedules to allow for HS soccer. This has the effect of taking a 10 month training and league season of "elite" soccer and trimming it down to 6 months. So parents pay full ECNL price for a 1/3 less training with the best players to play free school soccer.
> 
> So now ECNL has painted themselves into a corner with their exuberant support of a non-league activity, coached by inferior coaches, played in an inferior style. And because the ECNL season is a dead period during HS if a kid wants to play soccer they have almost no choice but to play HS soccer now. And this equates to two very compressed seasons in a 10 month span.
> 
> GA will allow HS soccer but up front have already stated, within our club, that it will be case by case basis the way ECNL USED to be. A GA season will not be overloaded with games in a compressed fashion to get the same number of games in 6 months when they can done in 10 months.


I have much to say about this but I have to leave.  High School Soccer in Socal was attacked by most top Docs here. before the GDA  In other parts of the country high school sports and soccer rule the community.  I'll share more later.  Great takes btw and I agree with most of them.  HS Soccer in socal was under attack but not no more


----------



## happy9

Mullet said:


> Is High School soccer really free if you are paying for 10 months of ECNL when you are only getting 6 months?
> *GA will allow HS soccer but up front have already stated, within our club, that it will be case by case basis the way ECNL USED to be*. A GA season will not be overloaded with games in a compressed fashion to get the same number of games in 6 months when they can done in 10 months.


The GDA had already decided they were going to pivot to this for this upcoming season, then the DA imploded.  The decision to allow (more frequenlty) players to play HS was to minimize girls jumping ship to ECNL for their HS years AFTER they had signed.  Makes sense to me, it's a recruiting thing.

HS soccer is a touchy, emotional, and personal thing for the girls.  You will get different opinions if you poll them. Just the way it is.  

From a pure soccer perspective (and my opinion), HS is not a good place to be for an elite player.  The competition is not consistent, and the risk for injury increases.   I know there is a risk of injury every time you take to the  pitch, but HS soccer to me presents a more dangerous game.  If may differ from state to state, county to county, city to city, but I've seen enough HS soccer to have formed an opinon (and that's all it is, an opinion).  

I also think that a break is a good thing.  Going from high level club to HS season is a grind.  A more natural break in the winter is beneficial to your body and only makes sense.  But try making sense to a teenager  doesn't always work.  My oldest has played high level club into HS over the last 3 yrs, each year resulted in injuries during the HS season.  The schools that he's interested and that have shown interest have cautioned against playing club into HS for his senior year.  Will he listen, who knows, maybe he'll listen to a prospective college coach. 

 My youngest is about to enter HS and is on the fence to play HS.  Her coaches will encourage her to NOT play.  I think she'll listen but the pull of playing with  friends or against club team mates that go to another school is very STRONG.  I will encourage her to not play - purely from a physiological perspective.  I will not ban her from playing HS- who knows, she may decide club is dumb and will move on to other things.


----------



## Ellejustus

happy9 said:


> The GDA had already decided they were going to pivot to this for this upcoming season, then the DA imploded.  The decision to allow (more frequenlty) players to play HS was to minimize girls jumping ship to ECNL for their HS years AFTER they had signed.  Makes sense to me, it's a recruiting thing.
> 
> HS soccer is a touchy, emotional, and personal thing for the girls.  You will get different opinions if you poll them. Just the way it is.
> 
> From a pure soccer perspective (and my opinion), HS is not a good place to be for an elite player.  The competition is not consistent, and the risk for injury increases.   I know there is a risk of injury every time you take to the  pitch, but HS soccer to me presents a more dangerous game.  If may differ from state to state, county to county, city to city, but I've seen enough HS soccer to have formed an opinon (and that's all it is, an opinion).
> 
> I also think that a break is a good thing.  Going from high level club to HS season is a grind.  A more natural break in the winter is beneficial to your body and only makes sense.  But try making sense to a teenager  doesn't always work.  My oldest has played high level club into HS over the last 3 yrs, each year resulted in injuries during the HS season.  The schools that he's interested and that have shown interest have cautioned against playing club into HS for his senior year.  Will he listen, who knows, maybe he'll listen to a prospective college coach.
> 
> My youngest is about to enter HS and is on the fence to play HS.  Her coaches will encourage her to NOT play.  I think she'll listen but the pull of playing with  friends or against club team mates that go to another school is very STRONG.  I will encourage her to not play - purely from a physiological perspective.  I will not ban her from playing HS- who knows, she may decide club is dumb and will move on to other things.


So wrong you are Happy.  The GDA Docs told me the same BS every year.  They were just lying again, trust me.  They gone too so forget about them.  Did you play any HS Sports Happy?


----------



## happy9

Ellejustus said:


> So wrong you are Happy.  The GDA Docs told me the same BS every year.  They were just lying again, trust me.  They gone too so forget about them.  *Did you play any HS Sports Happy*?


I sure did.  No way I could have afforded to play "elite" level club sports.  I was a 3 sport HS athlete, then played D1 baseball.  I was a rather average player, played a few innings here and there.  Just happy to be on the team and go to cool parties.  The girls really liked it!

*We will have agree to disagree*.  I think there is large gap between HS soccer and elite club soccer.  My argument has nothing to do with  GDA VS ECNL.  The HS thing was used effectively by ECNL to get girls to come over when they went to HS.  Early on, ECNL highly discouraged HS play. Once they switched their tune, very effective in getting girls to come their way - and I don't hate them for it.  

On the flipside, many talented girls, influenced by college coaches and well intending club coaches, did not play HS.  It's my opinion that if your player is in the 1%, then HS is the last place you want them to play.  I think you need an off season, it's how you grow physiologically.  Of course, not everyone has national team aspirations or power 5 D1 aspirations.  And there are plenty of quality players who will play HS and club and still play in college.  Do what you and your player feel is right.  If HS is kickass, the play on the pitch is good, have at it.  It sure is fun.  My son loves it and will likely play again this year for his senior year, in spite of what his college coaches are telling him.  My DD, we will see.  It will be up to her.  HS play where I live is marginal at best, with only a few schools that are good - and that's been traditionally because the ECNL girls are located in close proximity zip codes to each other (imagine that).  

I get it, HS sports are fun, school spirit, parties, etc.  Been there, done that, all I knew.  Who knows, if my parents had the money to throw down club ball and private instruction, maybe i could have been Derek Jeter before Derek Jeter. That would have been cool.


----------



## Ellejustus

happy9 said:


> I sure did.  No way I could have afforded to play "elite" level club sports.  I was a 3 sport HS athlete, then played D1 baseball.  I was a rather average player, played a few innings here and there.  Just happy to be on the team and go to cool parties.  The girls really liked it!
> 
> *We will have agree to disagree*.  I think there is large gap between HS soccer and elite club soccer.  My argument has nothing to do with  GDA VS ECNL.  The HS thing was used effectively by ECNL to get girls to come over when they went to HS.  Early on, ECNL highly discouraged HS play. Once they switched their tune, very effective in getting girls to come their way - and I don't hate them for it.
> 
> On the flipside, many talented girls, influenced by college coaches and well intending club coaches, did not play HS.  It's my opinion that if your player is in the 1%, then HS is the last place you want them to play.  I think you need an off season, it's how you grow physiologically.  Of course, not everyone has national team aspirations or power 5 D1 aspirations.  And there are plenty of quality players who will play HS and club and still play in college.  Do what you and your player feel is right.  If HS is kickass, the play on the pitch is good, have at it.  It sure is fun.  My son loves it and will likely play again this year for his senior year, in spite of what his college coaches are telling him.  My DD, we will see.  It will be up to her.  HS play where I live is marginal at best, with only a few schools that are good - and that's been traditionally because the ECNL girls are located in close proximity zip codes to each other (imagine that).
> 
> I get it, HS sports are fun, school spirit, parties, etc.  Been there, done that, all I knew.  Who knows, if my parents had the money to throw down club ball and private instruction, maybe i could have been Derek Jeter before Derek Jeter. That would have been cool.


Cool.  I played all sports too.  Sophia Smith ring a bell?  Mallory Pugh?  So many of the best of best lead their HS teams to state championship.  My dd team is good and plays possession and I think will be really good this year and next.  All girls are different too.  HS soccer rocks!!!


----------



## happy9

Ellejustus said:


> Cool.  I played all sports too.  Sophia Smith ring a bell?  Mallory Pugh?  So many of the best of best lead their HS teams to state championship.  My dd team is good and plays possession and I think will be really good this year and next.  All girls are different too.  HS soccer rocks!!!


We can go back and forth all you want in regards to HS.  There are many who didn't play HS soccer (Julie Ertz, Megan Rapinoe, to name a few, and there are more).  YOUR CHOICE and YOUR OPINION.  Where I live, HS soccer is not very good.  Sure it's fun, but it's bad play.  I prefer my DD to rest her body or play another fall sport.  Year round single sport kids tend to burnout, get injured, not have fun, etc.  Usually parent driven.  Let them rest, have fun doing other things, have easy, fun practices.  I've coached youth baseball when my son used to play, brutal.  Talk about a sport with early injuries.  Year round single sport kids don't fare well when they get into their mid teens.  Some do, a lot don't.  

But anyway, if HS is cool for you, then cool. Enjoy the weekend!!


----------



## Ellejustus

happy9 said:


> We can go back and forth all you want in regards to HS.  There are many who didn't play HS soccer (Julie Ertz, Megan Rapinoe, to name a few, and there are more).  YOUR CHOICE and YOUR OPINION.  *Where I live, HS soccer is not very good.  Sure it's fun, but it's bad play.  I prefer my DD to rest her body or play another fall sport.  Year round single sport kids tend to burnout, get injured, not have fun, etc.  Usually parent driven.*  Let them rest, have fun doing other things, have easy, fun practices.  I've coached youth baseball when my son used to play, brutal.  Talk about a sport with early injuries.  Year round single sport kids don't fare well when they get into their mid teens.  Some do, a lot don't.
> 
> But anyway, if HS is cool for you, then cool. Enjoy the weekend!!


Are you playing too...lol?  I right like that two   I support whatever my dd wants to do.  I'm only there to help her when she falls or cry with her when she cries and laugh when she laughs or jump in my arms after winning the natty when she was 13   She spent 18 months of her early prime teen years chasing a national Championship and tasted sweet victory.  HS Soccer is super fun for her and she has a goal to bring her school their first CIF girls soccer championship.  She loves trophies and medals and only keeps first place.  She picked HS Soccer over the GDA.  The play in OC was spotty at best because many top females were told by their Docs, Coaches and even their dads and some moms that HS Soccer was bad and even dangerous and basically too much soccer and the soccer was horribly played.  I think if soocer is played in HS this coming season you will have a huge turnout and better play.


----------



## Giesbock

I’m not sure the HS level of play will improve across the board with a possible influx of former DA players...  Coaches are still who they were last season.  Compressed season will compel same long ball type strategy. Inconsistent skills from player to player will still lead to crash and bang tacked that are missed or ignored by refs.

I admit being totally down on HS due to what I watched from our coach for two seasons of varsity for my 04.


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> I’m not sure the HS level of play will improve across the board with a possible influx of former DA players...  Coaches are still who they were last season.  Compressed season will compel same long ball type strategy. Inconsistent skills from player to player will still lead to crash and bang tacked that are missed or ignored by refs.
> 
> I admit being totally down on HS due to what I watched from our coach for two seasons of varsity for my 04.


I'm 100% sure High School Soccer level verys based on leagues.  I'm sure HS Soccer appreciates you and Happy's kind ringing endorsement....lol


----------



## Giesbock

Ellejustus said:


> I'm 100% sure High School Soccer level verys based on leagues.  I'm sure HS Soccer appreciates you and Happy's kind ringing endorsement....lol


Yeah our leauge is rife with burley enforcers who couldn’t pass a clean ball, don’t know what to do off the ball, can’t collect without the ball bouncing 6’ away, etc, etc.  

More power to the top girls. Sorry but for us, club is a different level.


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> Yeah our leauge is rife with burley enforcers who couldn’t pass a clean ball, don’t know what to do off the ball, can’t collect without the ball bouncing 6’ away, etc, etc.
> 
> More power to the top girls. Sorry but for us, club is a different level.


I wouldnt compare level of play between HS and club.  It's a social, fun and cool thing to do.  Then you go out and try and beat a rival.  Not about tier 1 or flight two or Elite or Premier.  It's just fun and that's all that matters to my little baby girl and a medal at the end like a CIF Championship


----------



## Messi>CR7

High school sports are meant for kids who want to participate in athletics and represent their schools.  If you find the level and the style of play below your typical club standard, keep in mind that many of those kids' parents did not pay $2,500+/yr for 8 years like many of us on this forum.


----------



## happy9

Ellejustus said:


> I wouldnt compare level of play between HS and club.  *It's a social, fun and cool thing to do*.  Then you go out and try and beat a rival.  Not about tier 1 or flight two or Elite or Premier.  It's just fun and that's all that matters to my little baby girl and a medal at the end like a CIF Championship


I get it and don't disagree with you.  HS soccer varies by state, by city, by zip codes. It's more fun than skill.  To the point above, there is nothing pretty about the HS game and it certainly brings a fair share of "rougher" play.  I don't mind tough, hard nosed play, but rough and tumble, kick ball futbol lends itself to a style of play that is inherently more dangerous.  The kids tend to have less soccer IQ, don't play well off the ball,  have little impetus when on the ball except to kick it as far down the field as possible, and have little regard when it comes to committing hard fouls. Just my observation.  
And yes, I do not endorse HS soccer at all, at least in my neck of the woods.  Normally one sided games, plenty of whistles, mouthy players, and exasperated refs.  And of course there are us parents.  If my DD wants to play, I will go and watch.  Like I said before, I hope she listens to her coach.

If you are a HS coach, sorry, nothing personal and not your fault.


----------



## Soccer43

Can you also give us the winning lottery tickets numbers for this next draw?


----------



## Ellejustus

happy9 said:


> I get it and don't disagree with you.  HS soccer varies by state, by city, by zip codes. It's more fun than skill.  To the point above, there is nothing pretty about the HS game and it certainly brings a fair share of "rougher" play.  I don't mind tough, hard nosed play, but rough and tumble, kick ball futbol lends itself to a style of play that is inherently more dangerous.  The kids tend to have less soccer IQ, don't play well off the ball,  have little impetus when on the ball except to kick it as far down the field as possible, and have little regard when it comes to committing hard fouls. Just my observation.
> And yes, I do not endorse HS soccer at all, at least in my neck of the woods.  Normally one sided games, plenty of whistles, mouthy players, and exasperated refs.  And of course there are us parents.  If my DD wants to play, I will go and watch.  Like I said before, I hope she listens to her coach.
> 
> If you are a HS coach, sorry, nothing personal and not your fault.


Some girl teams my dd team played were rough and tough.  Palos Verdes was hard core and not pretty style but they tried hard and had Ganas and that was cool.  My dd team would play possession every time if the other team agreed to it.  The problem, most teams dont know how and will give that up to try and win.  Girls are very competitive and they play to win.  Four the record, I'm just a dad who loved high school sports when I was teen.  I started every game I played.  No championships.  I did coach some hoops back in the day and I think I could have been a good high school PE teacher, health teacher and varsity hoops coach.


----------



## Copa9

happy9 said:


> I get it and don't disagree with you.  HS soccer varies by state, by city, by zip codes. It's more fun than skill.  To the point above, there is nothing pretty about the HS game and it certainly brings a fair share of "rougher" play.  I don't mind tough, hard nosed play, but rough and tumble, kick ball futbol lends itself to a style of play that is inherently more dangerous.  The kids tend to have less soccer .  IQ, don't play well off the ball,  have little impetus when on the ball except to kick it as far down the field as possible, and have little regard when it comes to committing hard fouls. Just my observation.
> And yes, I do not endorse HS soccer at all, at least in my neck of the woods.  Normally one sided games, plenty of whistles, mouthy players, and exasperated refs.  And of course there are us parents.  If my DD wants to play, I will go and watch.  Like I said before, I hope she listens to her coach.
> 
> If you are a HS coach, sorry, nothing personal and not your fault.


An example of what can happen. A friends son had signed his NLI, senior year, high school team was in CIF playoffs and an opposing player took this player out from the back.  He had to be carried off the field on a stretcher, sent to hospital in an ambulance.  He had a serious back injury, cracked vertebra and disk injury.  Took him months to recover.  He was able to come back and play all four years of D1 soccer, but this was terrifying for him and his parents.  School spirit is great, his high school team had a lot of club players but once they went to CIF playoffs things really became physical.  If your kid is a high level player, there are multiple sports your kid can participate in that won't cause serious injury if they really want that.


----------



## Ellejustus

Copa9 said:


> An example of what can happen. A friends son had signed his NLI, senior year, high school team was in CIF playoffs and an opposing player took this player out from the back.  He had to be carried off the field on a stretcher, sent to hospital in an ambulance.  He had a serious back injury, cracked vertebra and disk injury.  Took him months to recover.  He was able to come back and play all four years of D1 soccer, but this was terrifying for him and his parents.  School spirit is great, his high school team had a lot of club players but once they went to CIF playoffs things really became physical.  If your kid is a high level player, there are multiple sports your kid can participate in that won't cause serious injury if they really want that.


Hijacker.....lol!!!  Copa News is all fear based.  Yes, HS Soccer can be a little chippy and is not for the faint of heart.  Attention all high school athletes.  If you play baseball, football, basketball and other sports, you risk injury and in some cases, death.  My friends son was in a big JV rival game last year and someone under cut him and he landed on his head.  Ambulance came and he got a concussion.  He also got one in football so now he's only surfing with the risk of a shark attack.  He still is planning on playing Varsity Hoops this year in the Spring.  No more football, now that is dangerous and I hear causes brain damage.


----------



## Mullet

Ellejustus said:


> Hijacker.....lol!!!  Copa News is all fear based.  Yes, HS Soccer can be a little chippy and is not for the faint of heart.  Attention all high school athletes.  If you play baseball, football, basketball and other sports, you risk injury and in some cases, death.  My friends son was in a big JV rival game last year and someone under cut him and he landed on his head.  Ambulance came and he got a concussion.  He also got one in football so now he's only surfing with the risk of a shark attack.  He still is planning on playing Varsity Hoops this year in the Spring.  No more football, now that is dangerous and I hear causes brain damage.


There is a "little chippy" and then there is reckless play because players are targeted by lesser skilled players who have no other way to compete. We should want better soccer than this because it drives the most talented players away from the high school game. Poor coaching, ignorant and overzealous play due to lower skill leads to more athletic and overtly physical play and ruins the potential of HS soccer.


----------



## Ellejustus

Mullet said:


> *There is a "little chippy" and then there is reckless play because* players are targeted by lesser skilled players who have no other way to compete. We should want better soccer than this because it drives the most talented players away from the high school game. Poor coaching, ignorant and overzealous play due to lower skill leads to more athletic and overtly physical play and ruins the potential of HS soccer.


My dd has played club at the highest level and her small little school has to compete in D1 league but D3 for CIF.  We need better refs to call a tighter game a flag the girls who get confused with rugby.  If we get better players and coaches and refs, then we can have some fun free soccer.  It wont be perfect soccer but what soccer is played well in America?


----------



## Mullet

Messi>CR7 said:


> High school sports are meant for kids who want to participate in athletics and represent their schools.  If you find the level and the style of play below your typical club standard, keep in mind that many of those kids' parents did not pay $2,500+/yr for 8 years like many of us on this forum.


And there is nothing wrong with that for kids who don't play club but club players not wanting to get injured because players don't know how to properly play the game is not turning ones nose up.


----------



## MacDre

Mullet said:


> There is a "little chippy" and then there is reckless play because players are targeted by lesser skilled players who have no other way to compete. We should want better soccer than this because it drives the most talented players away from the high school game. Poor coaching, ignorant and overzealous play due to lower skill leads to more athletic and overtly physical play and ruins the potential of HS soccer.


I agree.  However, I would also add that the same applies to most elite clubs.  You can’t squeeze blood from a turnip but elite clubs are  trying.  In other words, most of elite club soccer sucks and is dangerous too.


----------



## Mullet

MacDre said:


> I agree.  However, I would also add that the same applies to most elite clubs.  You can’t squeeze blood from a turnip but elite clubs are  trying.  In other words, most of elite club soccer sucks and is dangerous too.


I'm talking about reckless/dirty play. All sports have an assumed level of danger to them. There are certainly players at all levels who are reckless but the higher the overall level of play the less reward there is to playing recklessly. This does not mean that a player does not target another player for a level of retribution but in general that has not been my experience at the higher levels of youth soccer overall.


----------



## dad4

MacDre said:


> I agree.  However, I would also add that the same applies to most elite clubs.  You can’t squeeze blood from a turnip but elite clubs are  trying.  In other words, most of elite club soccer sucks and is dangerous too.


A requirement to track injuries in all youth sports would help.

Something as simple as “2000 girls played ECNL in California last year.  They had 156 moderate to severe concussions and 207 ACL surgeries.”. Or whatever the real numbers are.

Have to make it by level, so top teams can’t hide their injury rates behind all the rec players.


----------



## Ellejustus

Mullet said:


> I'm talking about reckless/dirty play. All sports have an assumed level of danger to them. There are certainly players at all levels who are reckless but the higher the overall level of play the less reward there is to playing recklessly. This does not mean that a player does not target another player for a level of retribution but in general that has not been my experience at the higher levels of youth soccer overall.


I saw reckless players in both club and high school but more in high school I will admit.   I saw a little Sally the club girl player kick another girl in the back of the leg when the ref wasnt looking.  Sally usually got what she wanted from her daddy and she wanted to score goals and win but her team was losing to my dd state cup champion team and she wanted to taste victory too but she couldn't so she kicked our players and yelled at them and her teammates.  High school I saw a girl a few years ago get her scalp ripped off in CIF game.  A guy ref told me that girls play way dirtier, rougher then boys and that's why so many injuries and kickball.


----------



## CaliKlines

Mullet said:


> There is a "little chippy" and then there is reckless play because players are targeted by lesser skilled players who have no other way to compete. We should want better soccer than this because it drives the most talented players away from the high school game. Poor coaching, ignorant and overzealous play due to lower skill leads to more athletic and overtly physical play and ruins the potential of HS soccer.


So true. High school soccer is close to talentless.


----------



## Ellejustus

CaliKlines said:


> So true. High school soccer is close to talentless.


Dang, oh well.  I will say it might be all the girls get this season.  Go high school soccer.  It's fun and its free!!!!!


----------



## happy9

Ellejustus said:


> Dang, oh well.  I will say it might be all the girls get this season.  Go high school soccer.  It's fun and its free!!!!!


Can't argue with free!!


----------



## Giesbock

If there’s no club season this year, and you (the parent) has to choose between HS soccer and small instructional group training but no games, which would it be?


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> If there’s no club season this year, and you (the parent) has to choose between HS soccer and small instructional group training but no games, which would it be?


That's a tough one, let me think through that and post my response at the end of the day


----------



## Giesbock

Ellejustus said:


> That's a tough one, let me think through that and post my response at the end of the day


Yeah not an easy choice.  Add the player’s right to a say-so in the matter and it really gets complicated!


----------



## TOSDCI

CaliKlines said:


> So true. High school soccer is close to talentless.


The skill level in high school soccer can vary greatly.  I have seen some teams that are not good and others that can compete with top SoCal club teams.  Their school has had multiple players committed to D1 and D2 colleges throughout the years.  We are fortunate to have a great program at my kid's high school and look forward to watching those games way more than watching club.  My kids love it and are already talking about high school for this upcoming season.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Giesbock said:


> If there’s no club season this year, and you (the parent) has to choose between HS soccer and small instructional group training but no games, which would it be?


You think that if HS plays in Spring that Club won’t?  Why?


----------



## Giesbock

Kicker4Life said:


> You think that if HS plays in Spring that Club won’t?  Why?


I was just trying to make a hypothetical comparison.


----------



## Traore

Giesbock said:


> If there’s no club season this year, and you (the parent) has to choose between HS soccer and small instructional group training but no games, which would it be?


HS and it is not even close.  What is the point of the social distance training camps if there are no games?


----------



## Giesbock

I guess I’ll do the old talk to myself thing and answer my own question.  By the way @Traore appreciate your though, but I’ll respectfully disagree.  If I’m playing the long game, (eg. 4 years of college ball which might lead to something else) I’ll go with high quality instructional training over typical , even champ level high school ball.  I get that game situations are needed eventually for well rounded growth, but the modern game requires skills, solid mechanics and athleticism.  

still hoping EJ weighs in with his thoughts on the matter!


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> I guess I’ll do the old talk to myself thing and answer my own question.  By the way @Traore appreciate your though, but I’ll respectfully disagree.  If I’m playing the long game, (eg. 4 years of college ball which might lead to something else) I’ll go with high quality instructional training over typical , even champ level high school ball.  I get that game situations are needed eventually for well rounded growth, but the modern game requires skills, solid mechanics and athleticism.
> 
> still hoping EJ weighs in with his thoughts on the matter!


I will let others take this head on first.  I have much to say on this subject and I can say 100% their is no right or wrong or either or.


----------



## happy9

Ellejustus said:


> I will let others take this head on first.  I have much to say on this subject and I can say 100% their is no right or wrong or either or.


Man, guess I'll bite. Quality, consistent, and relevent training trumps bad game play any day.  Reinforcing bad behavior is not a good thing.  Game speed is certainly required, especially when trying to instill decision making, etc.  But if your player is playing in bad game situations, or if they are making the right decisions but no one else is, then it's not a good thing.  

I'm sure there are a ton of opinions out there.  Find your player a good old man league they can play in.  Old crafty guys have to rely on positioning to beat younger players.  I'm not a soccer player, but a good friend is, 4 yr starter at syracuse and a legendary old man player.  His kids would join him every once in while during the off season. He swore it was the best way to teach kids positioning, first touch (and how to trash talk).

Years back, we spent a week in Mexico playing nothing but beach soccer with the resort staff.  Bare feet, quick play, small sided, split second decision making, not chippy - it was awesome.  Kids came back refreshed and with a new perspective on soccer.


----------



## MacDre

Giesbock said:


> If there’s no club season this year, and you (the parent) has to choose between HS soccer and small instructional group training but no games, which would it be?


I would choose the small instructional training but no games because that has been the philosophy of my daughters club in developing her.  She was allowed to train with boys but was not guaranteed minutes.  She rode the bench for years before she broke through.  Now, she’s a very technical player and reaping the benefits.


----------



## Giesbock

This afternoon I heard about several DA girls who bailed on their teams to jump for ECNL powerhouses.  Didn’t go as planned for all of them.  Got bumped down to the ECRL squad and into the turmoil of an uncertain season with a new team, rejection and self doubt.

Power up Girl’s Academy League!


----------



## ToonArmy

Sounds like a power up for ECRL not only did the league add full DA teams and full Blues ECNL teams and Surf DPL teams that were ECNL a couple years ago but now adding DA players to ECRL rosters

I feel bad for the girls first a league the DA bailed on them now clubs are bailing on them. Sucks 

The half dozen or so girls I know that jumped to an ECNL team and club are still rostered on team not dropped although 1 of the teams has 24 girls rostered on it


----------



## happy9

ToonArmy said:


> Sounds like a power up for ECRL not only did the league add full DA teams and full Blues ECNL teams and Surf DPL teams that were ECNL a couple years ago but now adding DA players to ECRL rosters
> 
> I feel bad for the girls first a league the DA bailed on them now clubs are bailing on them. Sucks
> 
> The half dozen or so girls I know that jumped to an ECNL team and club are still rostered on team not dropped although 1 of the teams has 24 girls rostered on it


Let's hope the seasons are a go, they all have teams to play on, and depending on their ages,  that college programs can scout the 21s and 22s. 

Big rosters are great for clubs, not so great for players.  I know there are injuries to consider but carrying rosters that are too big fosters bad team chemistry.

I would say power up California  - come up with a safe and responsible way to have a season.  There are tournaments being held in Texas, Utah, and New Jersey (of all places).  Teams are attending pre season mini camps in Oklahoma.  AND, this statement is not designed to spur a stupid, waste of time  political discussion.

Enjoy


----------



## Messi>CR7

happy9 said:


> Let's hope the seasons are a go, they all have teams to play on, and depending on their ages,  that college programs can scout the 21s and 22s.
> 
> Big rosters are great for clubs, not so great for players.  I know there are injuries to consider but carrying rosters that are too big fosters bad team chemistry.
> 
> I would say power up California  - come up with a safe and responsible way to have a season.  There are tournaments being held in Texas, Utah, and New Jersey (of all places).  Teams are attending pre season mini camps in Oklahoma.  AND, this statement is not designed to spur a stupid, waste of time  political discussion.
> 
> Enjoy


In our current state I think it's actually easier to have tournaments than a league season.  When you have a tournament, teams play at their own risk for a weekend and that's that.  NBA bubble is essentially a prolonged tournament but obviously with infinitely more resources on testing.

It's really difficult to plan a full league season.  Let's say in week #1 Team A plays Team B, and in week #2 Team A plays Team C, and Team B plays Team D.  What happens to week #3 if someone on Team A tested positive?  Four games would possibly need to be re-scheduled.  MLB with all their resources can barely keep a season going.  Miami played only 3 games so far while Atlanta in the same division already played 10 games.

As far as kids getting dropped mid-season, our clubs' player contracts (two different clubs) actually spelled out something like ".........you will join Coach Smith's League XYZ team in the 20xx season...........and player will not be dropped during the season for a more talented player........"


----------



## dad4

Messi>CR7 said:


> In our current state I think it's actually easier to have tournaments than a league season.  When you have a tournament, teams play at their own risk for a weekend and that's that.  NBA bubble is essentially a prolonged tournament but obviously with infinitely more resources on testing.
> 
> It's really difficult to plan a full league season.  Let's say in week #1 Team A plays Team B, and in week #2 Team A plays Team C, and Team B plays Team D.  What happens to week #3 if someone on Team A tested positive?  Four games would possibly need to be re-scheduled.  MLB with all their resources can barely keep a season going.  Miami played only 3 games so far while Atlanta in the same division already played 10 games.
> 
> As far as kids getting dropped mid-season, our clubs' player contracts (two different clubs) actually spelled out something like ".........you will join Coach Smith's League XYZ team in the 20xx season...........and player will not be dropped during the season for a more talented player........"


When people say “League play”, we know that 1/3 of the games will be cancelled and not rescheduled.”.  We know that our team might play 10 games and might play 2.   We know the league champion will be a joke.  And we know the refs will often be siblings, dads, and coaches instead of more neutral referees.

But even 2 games is more than we’ve had since March.  It sounds like a good deal right now.

And that’s way better than holding a tournament and reading an LA times headline saying “thousands exposed to coronavirus at youth soccer tournament.”


----------



## happy9

dad4 said:


> When people say “League play”, we know that 1/3 of the games will be cancelled and not rescheduled.”.  We know that our team might play 10 games and might play 2.   We know the league champion will be a joke.  And we know the refs will often be siblings, dads, and coaches instead of more neutral referees.
> 
> But even 2 games is more than we’ve had since March.  It sounds like a good deal right now.
> 
> *And that’s way better than holding a tournament and reading an LA times headline saying “thousands exposed to coronavirus at youth soccer tournament.”*


Can't disagree there, any opportunity to politicize will be taken.  Shame on them.  In the meantime, Texas and New Jersey hold large tournaments.  From all appearances (and some personal reporting from the one in NJ), the events were run efficiently and safely.  Attendance wasn't as big as usual, but enough quality teams showed for the tournament to have value. Apparently parents were able to put mask politics aside and enjoy a not so business as usual youth weekend soccer tournament - One parent only in attendance.  At least they were able to get footage, which is what colleges coaches are asking for right now.

  I think the irony is incredible - Texas and New Jersey, you couldn't come up with two states more further apart politically that are able to achieve a result that seems so hard  to do in the state of California.

In the mean time, AZ is on track to begin their season as scheduled.


----------



## Ellejustus

happy9 said:


> Can't disagree there, any opportunity to politicize will be taken.  Shame on them.  In the meantime, Texas and New Jersey hold large tournaments.  From all appearances (and some personal reporting from the one in NJ), the events were run efficiently and safely.  Attendance wasn't as big as usual, but enough quality teams showed for the tournament to have value. Apparently parents were able to put mask politics aside and enjoy a not so business as usual youth weekend soccer tournament - One parent only in attendance.  At least they were able to get footage, which is what colleges coaches are asking for right now.
> 
> I think the irony is incredible - Texas and New Jersey, you couldn't come up with two states more further apart politically that are able to achieve a result that seems so hard  to do in the state of California.
> 
> In the mean time, AZ is on track to begin their season as scheduled.


Way to keep things half full Happy.  I super appreciate it and it gives me some hope that some kids can play outside of Cali.  I dedicate this song to you Happy


----------



## happy9

Ellejustus said:


> Way to keep things half full Happy.  I super appreciate it and it gives me some hope that some kids can play outside of Cali.  I dedicate this song to you Happy


Nice!


----------



## SoccerLocker

GA SW schedule just pushed back from September to October.


----------



## Desert Hound

SoccerLocker said:


> GA SW schedule just pushed back from September to October.


I thought that was already a done deal as of a week or 2 ago.


----------

