# No Soccer - Bad / No School - Catastrophic!



## MicPaPa (Jul 15, 2020)

We can find alternatives to youth sports. There have been many good suggestions for replacing the physical part of club soccer, it's the social and emotional part that is a challenge.

But, the more serious problem is schools not reopening. Kids must have the structured daily academic environment that school provides, not only for continued learning, but also social and emotional needs...this is not easily replaced, not should it be. Kids have been out of school since early March, returing to school is a must. School is as essential, or even more so, as any Costco or Walmart.

The fact that not reopening schools is weakly supported, at best, by science and data should concern parents...but, the below fact that LAUSD has made school reopening contingent on political demands should set all parents hair on fire! 









						L.A. Teachers Union: Schools Can’t Reopen Unless Charter Schools Shut Down, Police Defunded - California Globe
					

In what appears to be a labor union power play, the United Teachers Los Angeles union announced Friday that Los Angeles Unified District schools




					californiaglobe.com


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## Hugh Jasol (Jul 15, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> We can find alternatives to youth sports. There have been many good suggestions for replacing the physical part of club soccer, it's the social and emotional part that is a challenge.
> 
> But, the more serious problem is schools not reopening. Kids must have the structured daily academic environment that school provides, not only for continued learning, but also social and emotional needs...this is not easily replaced, not should it be. Kids have been out of school since early March, returing to school is a must. School is as essential, or even more so, as any Costco or Walmart.
> 
> ...


I thought they were teaching because of how much they love helping children.


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## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

If schools refuse to reopen, all employees should be laid off, aside from teachers and skeleton crews, watch how fast they open. 

The sick part is during Covid-19, all closed school employees will continue to be paid by millions of tax payers who've lost jobs and businesses due to Covid-19 and kids staying home.


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## MacDre (Jul 15, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> We can find alternatives to youth sports. There have been many good suggestions for replacing the physical part of club soccer, it's the social and emotional part that is a challenge.
> 
> But, the more serious problem is schools not reopening. Kids must have the structured daily academic environment that school provides, not only for continued learning, but also social and emotional needs...this is not easily replaced, not should it be. Kids have been out of school since early March, returing to school is a must. School is as essential, or even more so, as any Costco or Walmart.
> 
> ...


Hey @met61 serious question.  Do you think it’s healthy that kids nowadays are essentially raised by schools and don’t spend much time with their nuclear families?  With my daughters cohort, I have observed several kids get dropped off to school early and picked up late.  Oftentimes it seems that the only quality time families have with their kids is transporting them to and from school.

Do you think this forced closure of schools could be beneficial in enhancing the family bond in the nuclear family and mitigating some of the psychological damage that will inevitably result from being raised by an education factory?


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## Hugh Jasol (Jul 15, 2020)

met61 said:


> If schools refuse to reopen, all employees should be laid off, aside from teachers and skeleton crews, watch how fast they open.
> 
> The sick part is during Covid-19, all closed school employees will continue to be paid by millions of tax payers who've lost jobs and businesses due to Covid-19 and kids staying home.


Are you trying to say teachers are not heroes that sacrifice everything to help children in need?


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## Chizl (Jul 15, 2020)

@met61....let's say schools are open and a teacher gets covid.  I would assume the teacher would go into quarantine for a period of time. Teachers see +/- 150 students per day, would all 150 students need to go into quarantine as well? Would the 150 families of the students need to go on lock down? Would the 150 places of work where the parents earn a living need to go on lock down? What's the plan? 

My wife is a teacher and a nice portion of her income goes to buying school supplies for her students as they aren't provided by the district. The sick part of your post is you give two shits about the safety of the school employees and students. All about money right?


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## gkmom (Jul 15, 2020)

Chizl said:


> @met61....let's say schools are open and a teacher gets covid.  I would assume the teacher would go into quarantine for a period of time. Teachers see +/- 150 students per day, would all 150 students need to go into quarantine as well? Would the 150 families of the students need to go on lock down? Would the 150 places of work where the parents earn a living need to go on lock down? What's the plan?
> 
> My wife is a teacher and a nice portion of her income goes to buying school supplies for her students as they aren't provided by the district. The sick part of your post is you give two shits about the safety of the school employees and students. All about money right?


Amen. And, will the teachers get paid and enough sick leave while ill/quarantined?


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## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Hey @met61 serious question.  Do you think it’s healthy that kids nowadays are essentially raised by schools and don’t spend much time with their nuclear families?  With my daughters cohort, I have observed several kids get dropped off to school early and picked up late.  Oftentimes it seems that the only quality time families have with their kids is transporting them to and from school.
> 
> Do you think this forced closure of schools could be beneficial in enhancing the family bond in the nuclear family and mitigating some of the psychological damage that will inevitably result from being raised by an education factory?


I'd say you've over simplified a complex issue with many factors.

To address your point, I'd say a family's household income and means would be a main factor. Using your daughters cohort example; would you say your household income and means allows you more quality family time? Also, do you see those using before & after school care as a necessity or bad parenting?

To incorporate one of my points in case you missed it  - sure, it would be great if all parents could be paid by their tax dollars to not work and stay home on end for quality family time.


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## MSK357 (Jul 15, 2020)

M


Chizl said:


> @met61....let's say schools are open and a teacher gets covid.  I would assume the teacher would go into quarantine for a period of time. Teachers see +/- 150 students per day, would all 150 students need to go into quarantine as well? Would the 150 families of the students need to go on lock down? Would the 150 places of work where the parents earn a living need to go on lock down? What's the plan?
> 
> My wife is a teacher and a nice portion of her income goes to buying school supplies for her students as they aren't provided by the district. The sick part of your post is you give two shits about the safety of the school employees and students. All about money right?


So whats your suggestion? Keep kids in distance learning like LAUSD is doing (supposedly at least until the end of the year)?  with maybe an hour of virtual instruction?  If I'm basically homeschooling my kids anyway, id rather take the $2800 the state offers and do it myself. Supposedly Newsom put a stop to that for the 2020-2011 budget though.  Either way teachers will take a hit.  The 12k a year it takes to educate a kid in california is definitely not being spent well if we're just doing DL for the next year.  Put 1 teacher in front of a camera for the entire year group class with a template lesson plan and you wouldnt need so many teachers.  Unions are making our education cost really expensive.


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## watfly (Jul 15, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> We can find alternatives to youth sports. There have been many good suggestions for replacing the physical part of club soccer, it's the social and emotional part that is a challenge.
> 
> But, the more serious problem is schools not reopening. Kids must have the structured daily academic environment that school provides, not only for continued learning, but also social and emotional needs...this is not easily replaced, not should it be. Kids have been out of school since early March, returing to school is a must. School is as essential, or even more so, as any Costco or Walmart.
> 
> ...


The kids are being used as political pawns.  It's sad and tragic.  Underprivileged and at risk kids will be hurt the most.  It is more the teachers' union than the teachers, although I've seen some SD Union school teachers celebrating on Facebook about how they don't have to do in person teaching in the fall.

It's pathetic how some people always find excuses about how things can't be done.  Those people are low functioning and lazy, meanwhile other countries have no problem getting their kids back in school.  What happened to the American work ethic?  What makes teachers a special protected class that they don't have to go back to work when there are plenty of other employees with more risk of exposure that have been working this entire time?  I find it ironic that teachers tell us how important they are to our children's future and how underpaid they are (if you actually look at their rate per hour, they're very well compensated), but when the rubber hits the road, they tap out.   This is not to disparage the great teachers out there which are many, but to disparage those like my daughter's history teacher that told the kids not to bother him unless it was an emergency during online "learning" this past spring (just one of many examples I have of her lazy teachers).  I've learned that the students are held to a much higher standard than teachers.  The students need their own union.


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## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

Chizl said:


> @met61....let's say schools are open and a teacher gets covid.  I would assume the teacher would go into quarantine for a period of time. Teachers see +/- 150 students per day, would all 150 students need to go into quarantine as well? Would the 150 families of the students need to go on lock down? Would the 150 places of work where the parents earn a living need to go on lock down? What's the plan?
> 
> My wife is a teacher and a nice portion of her income goes to buying school supplies for her students as they aren't provided by the district. The sick part of your post is you give two shits about the safety of the school employees and students. All about money right?


Wrong, not all about money - all about income and taxes, do you know the difference?

Did you read the above article regarding LAUSD?

My wife is a teacher as well. Ironically, she is teaching distance learning summer school as I type. The fact that our wives have to spend personal income for supplies has a lot to do with mismanaged funds and unions, but that is a discussion for another time.

I support paying teachers engaged in distance learning and skeleton support crews until schools reopen. Explain why we continue to fully pay ALL school employees during closures?

As for health and safety. Let's say schools are open and that same teacher got the flu - we do the same we've always done for Covid-19.  Do you acknowledge significantly more kids die of the flu than of Covid-19?

Lastly, do you give two shits about all the academic, physical & mental health ramifications from closing school and socially isolating kids...or the impact of loss of household income and businesses?


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## Soccer Bum 06 (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> The kids are being used as political pawns.  It's sad and tragic.  Underprivileged and at risk kids will be hurt the most.  It is more the teachers' union than the teachers, although I've seen some SD Union school teachers celebrating on Facebook about how they don't have to do in person teaching in the fall.
> 
> It's pathetic how some people always find excuses about how things can't be done.  Those people are low functioning and lazy, meanwhile other countries have no problem getting their kids back in school.  What happened to the American work ethic?  What makes teachers a special protected class that they don't have to go back to work when there are plenty of other employees with more risk of exposure that have been working this entire time?  I find it ironic that teachers tell us how important they are to our children's future and how underpaid they are (if you actually look at their rate per hour, they're very well compensated), but when the rubber hits the road, they tap out.   This is not to disparage the great teachers out there which are many, but to disparage those like my daughter's history teacher that told the kids not to bother him unless it was an emergency during online "learning" this past spring (just one of many examples I have of her lazy teachers).  I've learned that the students are held to a much higher standard than teachers.  The students need their own union.


Thank you for these comments. I have seen workers at grocery stores and other essential businesses have to work and have not heard the same concerns about when they test positive. If Costco, Target and others can stay open with far more contact with unknown customers how can schools be kept closed?  Schools and teachers are as essential as anything else. Teachers are well compensated on an hourly basis and should be asked to work like so many other essential sectors. Schools should seek guidance from other businesses that have already developed plans around positive tests and yet managed to stay open.


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## MacDre (Jul 15, 2020)

met61 said:


> I'd say you've over simplified a complex issue with many factors.
> 
> To address your point, I'd say a family's household income and means would be a main factor. Using your daughters cohort example; would you say your household income and means allows you more quality family time? Also, do you see those using before & after school care as a necessity or bad parenting?
> 
> To incorporate one of my points in case you missed it  - sure, it would be great if all parents could be paid by their tax dollars to not work and stay home on end for quality family time.


Be careful of what you ask for because you just might get it.  I listen to this song almost daily to remind me not to get caught up in the rat race:


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## watfly (Jul 15, 2020)

met61 said:


> Lastly, do you give two shits about all the academic, physical & mental health ramifications from closing school and socially isolating kids...or the impact of loss of household income and businesses?


This.  Unfortunately, there are far too many people, likely fed by the doomsday media, that have Covid "tunnel vision" and are incapable of seeing the complete picture.


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## MacDre (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> This.  Unfortunately, there are far too many people, likely fed by the doomsday media, that have Covid "tunnel vision" and are incapable of seeing the complete picture.


In my case it has nothing to do with the media.  I’m just very risk averse when it comes to my kid.  How can you be so certain?  What if you are wrong, and your kid dies?


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## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> In my case it has nothing to do with the media.  I’m just very risk averse when it comes to my kid.  How can you be so certain?  What if you are wrong, and your kid dies?


No risk, no reward.  I think those who have the fear of the unknown really need to sit out until a vaccine comes.  My dd is going to offer surf lessons so let me know if your down in socal.  Also, she is now cliff jumping expert.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 15, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> No risk, no reward.  I think those who have the fear of the unknown really need to sit out until a vaccine comes.  My dd is going to offer surf lessons so let me know if your down in socal.  Also, she is now cliff jumping expert.


my daughter would love to get surfing lessons


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## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> my daughter would love to get surfing lessons


I'm taking a team of adventuress teens from Dana Point to Main Beach.  Swim, jump and dribble jog.  I will have soccer balls station on some of the longer stretch beaches.  I was hoping life could be a little normal for the teens but the teachers have real fear so I will teach outdoor classes this fall


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## watfly (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> In my case it has nothing to do with the media.  I’m just very risk averse when it comes to my kid.  How can you be so certain?  What if you are wrong, and your kid dies?


That's fair, and I don't blame you for doing what you think is best for your child.  It sounds like your making a choice, but not trying to force your personal risk assessment on my kids and prevent my kids from being physically present at school.  What I have a problem with is when others try to project their fears on my family's good faith choices.

Now to answer you question...nothing is certain in life.  We all make our individual risk assessments.  My risk assessment is based on actual data regarding very limited child infections (and virtually no serious health issues other than for health compromised children) and the lack of evidence for any material child spread of the virus...4+ months into the pandemic.  I give pretty much zero credibility to any expert projections of the virus, its mostly pure speculation and time and time again has been wrong.  By my very nature I'm just not a "what if" person without any current quantitative evidence that something is possible in the future.  I'm also a skeptic by nature and give very little consideration for theories developed in a lab or other closed setting.  I'm a "show me, don't tell me" type of person.

My kid dying is a pretty harsh question.  My son is at far more risk driving him to practice, wading in a river fishing, launching himself 30+ feet on a bmx bike or doing backflips off any sort of surface or object known to man.

Best of luck to you and your child in whatever risky endeavors you and her undertake.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> That's fair, and I don't blame you for doing what you think is best for your child.  It sounds like your making a choice, but not trying to force your personal risk assessment on my kids and prevent my kids from being physically present at school.  What I have a problem with is when others try to project their fears on my family's good faith choices.
> 
> Now to answer you question...nothing is certain in life.  We all make our individual risk assessments.  My risk assessment is based on actual data regarding very limited child infections (and virtually no serious health issues other than for health compromised children) and the lack of evidence for any material child spread of the virus...4+ months into the pandemic.  I give pretty much zero credibility to any expert projections of the virus, its mostly pure speculation and time and time again has been wrong.  By my very nature I'm just not a "what if" person without any current quantitative evidence that something is possible in the future.  I'm also a skeptic by nature and give very little consideration for theories developed in a lab or other closed setting.  I'm a "show me, don't tell me" type of person.
> 
> ...


My dd drives both of us and the risk of us both dying is my greatest fear.  I have zero zero fear that my dd will catch or die from this BS!!!


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## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

Hugh Jasol said:


> Are you trying to say teachers are not heroes that sacrifice everything to help children in need?


No, I'm saying teachers are like all people, trying to scratch out a living to support a household and improve quality of life, call it heroic if you want. Some are fortunate enough to have a guaranteed income whether they work or not, others don't have that luxury.

I'd say income or lack thereof (


watfly said:


> The kids are being used as political pawns.  It's sad and tragic.  Underprivileged and at risk kids will be hurt the most.  It is more the teachers' union than the teachers, although I've seen some SD Union school teachers celebrating on Facebook about how they don't have to do in person teaching in the fall.
> 
> It's pathetic how some people always find excuses about how things can't be done.  Those people are low functioning and lazy, meanwhile other countries have no problem getting their kids back in school.  What happened to the American work ethic?  What makes teachers a special protected class that they don't have to go back to work when there are plenty of other employees with more risk of exposure that have been working this entire time?  I find it ironic that teachers tell us how important they are to our children's future and how underpaid they are (if you actually look at their rate per hour, they're very well compensated), but when the rubber hits the road, they tap out.   This is not to disparage the great teachers out there which are many, but to disparage those like my daughter's history teacher that told the kids not to bother him unless it was an emergency during online "learning" this past spring (just one of many examples I have of her lazy teachers).  I've learned that the students are held to a much higher standard than teachers.  The students need their own union.


Exactly, well said.

Imagine all the office admin staff, school nurses, bus drivers and mechanics, janitors and maintenance workers, to name a few, sitting at home drawing full pay from the taxes of tens of millions who've lost jobs and businesses - it's pathetic. Not to mention all the District cost savings from, utilities, supplies, food, gasoline etc. 

We already have a union for students - it's called Parents! we just need to unify and organize like a union.

Damn straight folks - we're being played.


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## watfly (Jul 15, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> My dd drives both of us and the risk of us both dying is my greatest fear.  I have zero zero fear that my dd will catch or die from this BS!!!


My daughter got her license last October, so yeah that's the risky thing I've let any of my children do.


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## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Be careful of what you ask for because you just might get it.  I listen to this song almost daily to remind me not to get caught up in the rat race:


A dodge. Cute song.


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## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> This.  Unfortunately, there are far too many people, likely fed by the doomsday media, that have Covid "tunnel vision" and are incapable of seeing the complete picture.


Fact Check: TRUE


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## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> In my case it has nothing to do with the media.  I’m just very risk averse when it comes to my kid.  How can you be so certain?  What if you are wrong, and your kid dies?


Life is full of risk and what-ifs, keep you kid at home, but don't force it on others.


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## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> That's fair, and I don't blame you for doing what you think is best for your child.  It sounds like your making a choice, but not trying to force your personal risk assessment on my kids and prevent my kids from being physically present at school.  What I have a problem with is when others try to project their fears on my family's good faith choices.
> 
> Now to answer you question...nothing is certain in life.  We all make our individual risk assessments.  My risk assessment is based on actual data regarding very limited child infections (and virtually no serious health issues other than for health compromised children) and the lack of evidence for any material child spread of the virus...4+ months into the pandemic.  I give pretty much zero credibility to any expert projections of the virus, its mostly pure speculation and time and time again has been wrong.  By my very nature I'm just not a "what if" person without any current quantitative evidence that something is possible in the future.  I'm also a skeptic by nature and give very little consideration for theories developed in a lab or other closed setting.  I'm a "show me, don't tell me" type of person.
> 
> ...


Again, well done.


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## socalkdg (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> In my case it has nothing to do with the media.  I’m just very risk averse when it comes to my kid.  How can you be so certain?  What if you are wrong, and your kid dies?


I’m all about stats.  Look at total deaths coronavirus for ages 1-24 compared to total deaths. 

162 Coronavirus deaths compared to 16000 other deaths for ages 1-24.   The three leading reasons for deaths for ages 1-24?  Unintentional Injury, homicide, and Suicide.

So next time you leave your kid alone, or drive somewhere, or let them go outside by themself or with friends, or go to a movie, soccer game, walk anywhere, do anything, remember all those things are more dangerous per the CDC numbers then coronavirus. 

Now if you are worried about your kid transmitting the disease to someone that is high risk or much much older than I can see people having a valid point to keep them out of school.  Risk for the kids, not so much.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> This.  Unfortunately, there are far too many people, likely fed by the doomsday media, that have Covid "tunnel vision" and are incapable of seeing the complete picture.


Elimination of the extra $600/wk in unemployment would change a lot of people’s opinions!


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## Eagle33 (Jul 15, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Elimination of the extra $600/wk in unemployment would change a lot of people’s opinions!


Bingo!


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## MacDre (Jul 15, 2020)

met61 said:


> Life is full of risk and what-ifs, keep you kid at home, but don't force it on others.


So could you quantify what would be an unacceptable amount of risk for your kid to return to school?


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## Grace T. (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> So could you quantify what would be an unacceptable amount of risk for your kid to return to school?


The minimum threshold for people worried about their kids is that it has to at the very minimum be more risky than the flu season (which for kids, COVID isn't), more risky than driving to school each day, and more risky than playing soccer (which we assume most people on this board let their kids do).  We don't shut down schools every year when there's a bad flu season.  Otherwise, people are being irrational.  Danger of kids transmitting to the parents, as others have said, is a completely different story.....


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## socalkdg (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> So could you quantify what would be an unacceptable amount of risk for your kid to return to school?


Yes.   If coronavirus in ages 1-25 had the same amount of deaths as suicides, murders, or unintentional deaths.


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## Anon9 (Jul 15, 2020)

Teachers and anyone working for any school district should be declared essential and made to work. I’m tired of all the bitching and whining. If all the Agriculture workers, most of which are older, would stop working because of Covid then the country would not be able to feed itself. These hard working people come out to work everyday, risking their lives for the American people. It’s time the teachers do the same. Too bad that will never happen, because we live in a weak ass state that let’s the unions dictate what happens next. Hopefully Trump withholds funding and makes their ass get back to work.


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## MacDre (Jul 15, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The minimum threshold for people worried about their kids is that it has to at the very minimum be more risky than the flu season (which for kids, COVID isn't), more risky than driving to school each day, and more risky than playing soccer (which we assume most people on this board let their kids do).  We don't shut down schools every year when there's a bad flu season.  Otherwise, people are being irrational.  Danger of kids transmitting to the parents, as others have said, is a completely different story.....


Not the case at all. The threshold is how to minimize transmission of a virus that has greater morbidity and in instances greater mortality rates than the flu. Mortality is based upon the # of covid deaths divided by # of Covid cases. There is no vaccine unlike the flu, and greater hospitalizations across all demographics unlike the flu. Additionally, covid doesn’t have a “season “ unlike the flu. Meaning, transmission can and will occur regardless of weather. So, unless you are placing kids in a bubble and isolating them from their families they will not only contract the virus but be spreaders as well. To my knowledge, morbidity and mortality from vehicle accidents and playing soccer isn’t contagious. But maybe you know something I don’t. Comparing covid to the flu is irresponsible and become a political rallying point for some ridiculous reason. Personally, I wouldn’t want myself or my child to be a victim of either. But you do you.


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## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

Hugh Jasol said:


> I thought they were teaching because of how much they love helping children.


Teachers love helping children but not when it kills them, and especially not when teaching can be done online. It’s so cowardly of all of you to demand that others risk their lives just because you can’t handle a little responsibility for your child’s education.

Regardless, I’m going to rely on the opinions of experts, and not Chuck Woolery and his merry little band of anonymous whiner MAGATs who hang out here.


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## Grace T. (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Not the case at all. The threshold is how to minimize transmission of a virus that has greater morbidity and in instances greater mortality rates than the flu. Mortality is based upon the # of covid deaths divided by # of Covid cases. There is no vaccine unlike the flu, and greater hospitalizations across all demographics unlike the flu. Additionally, covid doesn’t have a “season “ unlike the flu. Meaning, transmission can and will occur regardless of weather. So, unless you are placing kids in a bubble and isolating them from their families they will not only contract the virus but be spreaders as well. To my knowledge, morbidity and mortality from vehicle accidents and playing soccer isn’t contagious. But maybe you know something I don’t. Comparing covid to the flu is irresponsible and become a political rallying point for some ridiculous reason. Personally, I wouldn’t want myself or my child to be a victim of either. But you do you.


Reading comprehension.  I'm talking only about the people who are worried about the risk to the child.  The ones who say "I'd never risk my kids like that." Very simple.  The stats show it's not as risky for them as the flu.  Seasonality doesn't work because they still send there kids to school and soccer practice during flu season.  The vaccine doesn't work because it's not always effective (some times as low as 20%),  If you are worried about your kid catching it, but don't have the same concern during flu season, putting them in a car (or driving one) or letting them play soccer (especially if they are GKs) then you are being irrational.

I did say that concern for spread to adults is a valid concern (both from an individual parent perspective and a societal one).  But let me be clear: what we are essentially asking then is for the children to be harmed and to sacrifice themselves for the sake of adults (especially very older adults).  It's also very different than the precedents we've set in the past where the maxim : "women and children first" used to prevail.


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## lafalafa (Jul 15, 2020)

All these theads eventually turn into this:




__ https://www.facebook.com/100009769088550/posts/1162674964068129


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## MSK357 (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Not the case at all. The threshold is how to minimize transmission of a virus that has greater morbidity and in instances greater mortality rates than the flu. Mortality is based upon the # of covid deaths divided by # of Covid cases. There is no vaccine unlike the flu, and greater hospitalizations across all demographics unlike the flu. Additionally, covid doesn’t have a “season “ unlike the flu. Meaning, transmission can and will occur regardless of weather. So, unless you are placing kids in a bubble and isolating them from their families they will not only contract the virus but be spreaders as well. To my knowledge, morbidity and mortality from vehicle accidents and playing soccer isn’t contagious. But maybe you know something I don’t. Comparing covid to the flu is irresponsible and become a political rallying point for some ridiculous reason. Personally, I wouldn’t want myself or my child to be a victim of either. But you do you.


you are incorrect, mortality rate is not # of covid deaths divided by # covid cases. It's covid deaths divided by total people that had covid.  Not everyone is getting tested and neither are the asymptomatic people. CDC even put out a new mortality rate that is similar to the flu.  Even COVID deaths is up for debate, especially when we have health officials saying covid deaths doesnt mean the death was caused by COVID.  Health officials even explained that even if someone had a week to live due to cancer and just got covid right now and died a week later, it will still be classified as a COVID death.  The fact is 0 kids between 0-17 have died from COVID in california and hundreds of HEALTHY kids die from the flu every year.  Thats with a vaccine available.  make the old and sick stay home.


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## Grace T. (Jul 15, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> All these theads eventually turn into this:


The commentary in Spanish in the video s pretty hilarious.


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## Desert Hound (Jul 15, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> We can find alternatives to youth sports. There have been many good suggestions for replacing the physical part of club soccer, it's the social and emotional part that is a challenge.
> 
> But, the more serious problem is schools not reopening. Kids must have the structured daily academic environment that school provides, not only for continued learning, but also social and emotional needs...this is not easily replaced, not should it be. Kids have been out of school since early March, returing to school is a must. School is as essential, or even more so, as any Costco or Walmart.
> 
> ...


"effectively cannot reopen unless certain conditions are met: privately operated publicly funded charter schools are shut down"

That is part of their ridiculous demands. 

The reasoning for that one has to be that charters schools make the public schools bad in general. And especially in this environment if schools can do only online courses. 

My DD goes to a charter school and when things shut down in March, they were immediately up and running with online classes every day of the week. They had online classes with every one of their teachers. 

When I talked to the parents in our public school district, their kids basically got nothing. 

That union is out for itself. It is not interesting in parents or kids. All about power and money.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 15, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> All these theads eventually turn into this:


So you are saying they become entertaining?


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 15, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> "effectively cannot reopen unless certain conditions are met: privately operated publicly funded charter schools are shut down"
> 
> That is part of their ridiculous demands.
> 
> ...


Wow, could they be anymore tone deaf? Any bets on when we see, "Defund the Teachers"?


----------



## gkmom (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> That's fair, and I don't blame you for doing what you think is best for your child.  It sounds like your making a choice, but not trying to force your personal risk assessment on my kids and prevent my kids from being physically present at school.  What I have a problem with is when others try to project their fears on my family's good faith choices.
> 
> Now to answer you question...nothing is certain in life.  We all make our individual risk assessments.  My risk assessment is based on actual data regarding very limited child infections (and virtually no serious health issues other than for health compromised children) and the lack of evidence for any material child spread of the virus...4+ months into the pandemic.  I give pretty much zero credibility to any expert projections of the virus, its mostly pure speculation and time and time again has been wrong.  By my very nature I'm just not a "what if" person without any current quantitative evidence that something is possible in the future.  I'm also a skeptic by nature and give very little consideration for theories developed in a lab or other closed setting.  I'm a "show me, don't tell me" type of person.
> 
> ...


I fully agree with this and everyone should do what they feel best for their family. And nobody should project onto others, judge, or dictate what they should do. 
I unfortunately have to be more careful because my son and husband have asthma (though the research on this is unclear in re to Covid). I choose to be cautious until I know more. But I would never have that expectation of anyone else.


----------



## Hugh Jasol (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Teachers love helping children but not when it kills them, and especially not when teaching can be done online. It’s so cowardly of all of you to demand that others risk their lives just because you can’t handle a little responsibility for your child’s education.
> 
> Regardless, I’m going to rely on the opinions of experts, and not Chuck Woolery and his merry little band of anonymous whiner MAGATs who hang out here.


Does it make sense for a certain number of teachers be furloughed or lose jobs now that they are moving to online classes? Certainly, less teachers are needed for online only instruction.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 15, 2020)

gkmom said:


> I fully agree with this and everyone should do what they feel best for their family. And nobody should project onto others, judge, or dictate what they should do.
> I unfortunately have to be more careful because my son and husband have asthma (though the research on this is unclear in re to Covid). I choose to be cautious until I know more. But I would never have that expectation of anyone else.


Fair but what they've determined so far seems to indicate asthma (particularly in children) isn't a substantial risk enhancer.  Your blood type and your race have more functionality.  True story: my elder brother had asthma and a grass allergy.  Almost died from an asthma attack during a soccer game.  If my father didn't have an adrenaline shot in his medical bag, he might very well have died.  That was the end of his soccer career too.  Medicine's are better now but they still fail....asthma and soccer is an inherently risky activity particularly if combined with a local flora allergy.


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Not the case at all. The threshold is how to minimize transmission of a virus that has greater morbidity and in instances greater mortality rates than the flu. Mortality is based upon the # of covid deaths divided by # of Covid cases. There is no vaccine unlike the flu, and greater hospitalizations across all demographics unlike the flu. Additionally, covid doesn’t have a “season “ unlike the flu. Meaning, transmission can and will occur regardless of weather. So, unless you are placing kids in a bubble and isolating them from their families they will not only contract the virus but be spreaders as well. To my knowledge, morbidity and mortality from vehicle accidents and playing soccer isn’t contagious. But maybe you know something I don’t. Comparing covid to the flu is irresponsible and become a political rallying point for some ridiculous reason. Personally, I wouldn’t want myself or my child to be a victim of either. But you do you.


Build a negative airflow room at home and huddle up in it for Christ's sake Karen - just stop whining for others do the same.


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Teachers love helping children but not when it kills them, and especially not when teaching can be done online. It’s so cowardly of all of you to demand that others risk their lives just because you can’t handle a little responsibility for your child’s education.
> 
> Regardless, I’m going to rely on the opinions of experts, and not Chuck Woolery and his merry little band of anonymous whiner MAGATs who hang out here.


I see the clown car has arrived.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

Hugh Jasol said:


> Does it make sense for a certain number of teachers be furloughed or lose jobs now that they are moving to online classes? Certainly, less teachers are needed for online only instruction.


Yes, so long as we start with the charter school teachers.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Yes, so long as we start with the charter school teachers.


why start with charter school teachers?


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> So could you quantify what would be an unacceptable amount of risk for your kid to return to school?


See @Grace T. and @socalkdg responses above, both work fine.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

met61 said:


> Build a negative airflow room at home and huddle up in it for Christ's sake Karen - just stop whining for others do the same.


A Karen is the person whining and demanding something unreasonable when they aren’t getting their way. That’s you in this scenario. Negative airflow?!? WTF are you talking about?


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 15, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> why start with charter school teachers?


because they actually want to teach instead of pushing some kind of agenda.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 15, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> you are incorrect, mortality rate is not # of covid deaths divided by # covid cases. It's covid deaths divided by total people that had covid.  Not everyone is getting tested and neither are the asymptomatic people. CDC even put out a new mortality rate that is similar to the flu.  Even COVID deaths is up for debate, especially when we have health officials saying covid deaths doesnt mean the death was caused by COVID.  Health officials even explained that even if someone had a week to live due to cancer and just got covid right now and died a week later, it will still be classified as a COVID death.  The fact is 0 kids between 0-17 have died from COVID in california and hundreds of HEALTHY kids die from the flu every year.  Thats with a vaccine available.  make the old and sick stay home.


Umm, the # of covid cases is in reference to the # of positive people. So, you just confirmed what I said. Maybe you’re not familiar with scientific terminology. If you had cancer and died UNEXPECTEDLY in a car accident, guess what you’re cause of death would be MVA. Just because one has cancer doesn’t mean it’s imminently terminal. Covid related deaths leave a blueprint just like a gun shot. The cause of death has to be certified by a physician. Hospitals don’t get a bonus check for certifying a death as covid related. I wonder who might benefit from labeling it something else. Again, kids are not immune from covid, their numbers are climbing. I’m certainly not sure why it’s a selling point that they aren’t dying in large numbers. Again, we’re a few months into this virus, can’t compare YEARLY death rates to the flu just yet. Even the healthy and young contract and die from covid. Making old and sick people stay home is asinine. Especially when kids eventually go home too.


----------



## Hugh Jasol (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Yes, so long as we start with the charter school teachers.


What is your issue with Charter Schools or Charter School teachers?


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> A Karen is the person whining and demanding something unreasonable when they aren’t getting their way. That’s you in this scenario. Negative airflow?!? WTF are you talking about?


Brilliant Bozo!


----------



## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> why start with charter school teachers?


1. They’re mostly non-union, so much easier to get rid of them and save legal fees making it happen.  Plus, charter school teachers tend to be paid less and you get what you pay for.

2. Charter schools need to go for lots of reasons. When the racists here go ballistic about this post, well, that’s reason #1.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

met61 said:


> Brilliant Bozo!


Karen.


----------



## Woobie06 (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Teachers love helping children but not when it kills them, and especially not when teaching can be done online. It’s so cowardly of all of you to demand that others risk their lives just because you can’t handle a little responsibility for your child’s education.
> 
> Regardless, I’m going to rely on the opinions of experts, and not Chuck Woolery and his merry little band of anonymous whiner MAGATs who hang out here.


I don’t have a problem with distance/online learning in general.  I have no problem taking a role in my kids education/development, etc.  My issue is that the way many schools implemented online/distance learning left a lot to be desired.  Much of the feedback was that some of the educators had real challenges with the technology, some mailed it in, and some were just not geared for it, classes were shorter...Just like some people can’t work from home.  It’s not for everyone.  The teaching profession is like any other, many great, good, and ok, some not so good or bad.  I’m not banging on teachers, I believe as a group they are tremendously underpaid and under appreciated.  From our experience and feedback from our kids the teaching experience was 50/50...half good, half bad.  Some really struggled, and it’s not like people had much time to get comfortable, learn, and get up to speed.  The biggest issue I see is that the model in these large districts is not built for online learning.  Plus many rely on this system for meals and yes, care/oversight of their kids so that the parents can work.

Our kids school is private and they are doing both on-site and remote classes...full-time, option for each, and the flexibility to toggle between in person and remote...They spent the time from the original lock down to now figuring out their model, technology, and delivery.  I was actually pleased with what they came up with and presented.  It looks to be a better product.  We shall see.  TBH, if they had not we would have pulled the kids, not worth the money for a redo of March/April/May.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Umm, the # of covid cases is in reference to the # of positive people. So, you just confirmed what I said. Maybe you’re not familiar with scientific terminology. If you had cancer and died UNEXPECTEDLY in a car accident, guess what you’re cause of death would be MVA. Just because one has cancer doesn’t mean it’s imminently terminal. Covid related deaths leave a blueprint just like a gun shot. The cause of death has to be certified by a physician. Hospitals don’t get a bonus check for certifying a death as covid related. I wonder who might benefit from labeling it something else. Again, kids are not immune from covid, their numbers are climbing. I’m certainly not sure why it’s a selling point that they aren’t dying in large numbers. Again, we’re a few months into this virus, can’t compare YEARLY death rates to the flu just yet. Even the healthy and young contract and die from covid. Making old and sick people stay home is asinine. Especially when kids eventually go home too.


Umm, # of positive people are only people that were tested for COVID.  thats why we had a 5% mortality rate at the beginning of this fear mongering.  That is why it has dropped to like .2%.  Unless you think this virus got weaker, the rate has decreased because more people got tested.  Lets not pretend people that got killed by gunshots were listed as COVID deaths. Lets not pretend drug overdoses were not listed as COVID deaths, and yes when a doctor says a person is terminally ill with a week to live, getting COVID 3 days out was not the cause of death.  It makes sense that we have a large number of "COVID deaths" when we add that label to people who dont have much longer to live.  Especially when the guidlines say you dont need a positive COVID test to label a death certificate as a COVID death.  These are facts. Sorry but i have a problem saying someone possibly dying WITH COVID as a COVID death when it determines whether we should shut down our economy as well as adversely effect the health of people quarantining themselves either due to mental health or delayed elective care.


----------



## gkmom (Jul 15, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Fair but what they've determined so far seems to indicate asthma (particularly in children) isn't a substantial risk enhancer.  Your blood type and your race have more functionality.  True story: my elder brother had asthma and a grass allergy.  Almost died from an asthma attack during a soccer game.  If my father didn't have an adrenaline shot in his medical bag, he might very well have died.  That was the end of his soccer career too.  Medicine's are better now but they still fail....asthma and soccer is an inherently risky activity particularly if combined with a local flora allergy.


Sorry to hear about your brother's experience. My son's asthma is not allergy or excercise induced. Only viruses/respiratory illnesses. He's also 14, so I'm still undecided if I feel comfortable that he's protected from this virus because he's a "kid". 
But, there is not much information on covid and asthma,especially in younger people. COPD is one of the top three risk factors. I'm hoping there will be more concrete information soon.


----------



## Hugh Jasol (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> 1. They’re mostly non-union, so much easier to get rid of them and save legal fees making it happen.  Plus, charter school teachers tend to be paid less and you get what you pay for.
> 
> 2. Charter schools need to go for lots of reasons. When the racists here go ballistic about this post, well, that’s reason #1.


What is the correlation between Charter Schools and Racism? 

What is your definition of “racist”?

Can you provide an itemized list of the lots of reasons Charter Schools need to go?


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> 1. They’re mostly non-union, so much easier to get rid of them and save legal fees making it happen.  Plus, charter school teachers tend to be paid less and you get what you pay for.
> 
> 2. Charter schools need to go for lots of reasons. When the racists here go ballistic about this post, well, that’s reason #1.


All the more reason to get rid of public school teachers in unions.  There is a benefit to keep charter school teachers who we can fire easily for poor performance.

Charter schools need to stay.  If a family is stuck in a failing school district, they need a better option to go to.  Parents wouldnt go through the trouble of leaving a school in their zone if a charter school was worse than the school they are zoned in.

the fact that historically racist democrats want to keep poor underprivileged mostly people of color in failing schools when education is the best way out of poverty is a clear example of systemic racism if it even exists.  Just like brown vs the board of education, republicans have always been about school choice.   Racists like Joe Biden are the ones on record for saying he didnt want his white kids growing up in a racial jungle when referring busing in kids to rich white schools.









						Did Joe Biden Say He Didn't Want His Kids Growing Up in a 'Racial Jungle'?
					

The 2020 Democratic presidential candidate's history with busing has haunted him on the campaign trail.




					www.snopes.com


----------



## watfly (Jul 15, 2020)

Hugh Jasol said:


> What is the correlation between Charter Schools and Racism?
> 
> What is your definition of “racist”?
> 
> Can you provide an itemized list of the lots of reasons Charter Schools need to go?


You must be new here?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Hey @met61 serious question.  Do you think it’s healthy that kids nowadays are essentially raised by schools and don’t spend much time with their nuclear families?  With my daughters cohort, I have observed several kids get dropped off to school early and picked up late.  Oftentimes it seems that the only quality time families have with their kids is transporting them to and from school.
> 
> Do you think this forced closure of schools could be beneficial in enhancing the family bond in the nuclear family and mitigating some of the psychological damage that will inevitably result from being raised by an education factory?


You mean our liberal socialist indoctrination program is too much for you?


----------



## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> I don’t have a problem with distance/online learning in general.  I have no problem taking a role in my kids education/development, etc.  My issue is that the way many schools implemented online/distance learning left a lot to be desired.  Much of the feedback was that some of the educators had real challenges with the technology, some mailed it in, and some were just not geared for it, classes were shorter...Just like some people can’t work from home.  It’s not for everyone.  The teaching profession is like any other, many great, good, and ok, some not so good or bad.  I’m not banging on teachers, I believe as a group they are tremendously underpaid and under appreciated.  From our experience and feedback from our kids the teaching experience was 50/50...half good, half bad.  Some really struggled, and it’s not like people had much time to get comfortable, learn, and get up to speed.  The biggest issue I see is that the model in these large districts is not built for online learning.  Plus many rely on this system for meals and yes, care/oversight of their kids so that the parents can work.
> 
> Our kids school is private and they are doing both on-site and remote classes...full-time, option for each, and the flexibility to toggle between in person and remote...They spent the time from the original lock down to now figuring out their model, technology, and delivery.  I was actually pleased with what they came up with and presented.  It looks to be a better product.  We shall see.  TBH, if they had not we would have pulled the kids, not worth the money for a redo of March/April/May.


Check it out everyone! This person makes sense. Doesn’t blame BLM and “libs” for preventing his kid from going to school. Doesn’t demand that teachers risk their lives because he’s too lazy to take responsibility for his kid’s education. Doesn’t whine about positive airflow at public schools needing to be reversed. Doesn’t accuse some of the most underpaid professionals in the country of 
being selfish money hungry bastards because they aren’t willing to literally die for his kid. Doesn’t claim that black people get what they deserve because they murder too many of their unborn children. Doesn’t go full Chuck Woolery and claim there’s a nationwide conspiracy of libs, the CDC and doctors all lying to us so he can disregard what virtually every single competent health care professional is saying. 

In short, I agree with you.


----------



## Hugh Jasol (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> You must be new here?


I am pretty new here and figured out soccer is not the purpose of this blog.  I am just curios where EOTL is coming from?  EOTL makes some bold statements and it would be interesting to see where he/she is coming from.


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

gkmom said:


> I fully agree with this and everyone should do what they feel best for their family. And nobody should project onto others, judge, or dictate what they should do.
> I unfortunately have to be more careful because my son and husband have asthma (though the research on this is unclear in re to Covid). I choose to be cautious until I know more. But I would never have that expectation of anyone else.


Agree, My MIL who is a 92yo proud immigrant w/cancer lives with us. We're fortunate to have a separate suite to isolate her. My wife, who is a teacher, and I take all precautions when entering and being around her. She hasn't hugged our kids since early March and they can only talk to her from the door at a distance w/mask. We don't take her out anymore. Protecting her is our responsibility and should never involve other kids not going to school, playing sports or just being kids. We've begun to limit her watching News because recently she gets spun up and yells at the TV about how weak and cowardly Americans have become since her family immigrated and went through the depression and everything since. I can't really argue or disagree with her.

She is a tiny tough old women - yet, she speaks frequently of loneliness, isolation is takes a toll in many ways.


----------



## watfly (Jul 15, 2020)

Hugh Jasol said:


> I am pretty new here and figured out soccer is not the purpose of this blog.  I am just curios where EOTL is coming from?  EOTL makes some bold statements and it would be interesting to see where he/she is coming from.


Welcome aboard, I was just poking fun at EOTL at your expense.  Do you like fiction?

All kidding aside we used to talk about soccer when it existed, but many of us have fallen down the Covid rabbit hole and I'm one of the worst offenders.


----------



## Messi>CR7 (Jul 15, 2020)

Hugh Jasol said:


> I am pretty new here and figured out soccer is not the purpose of this blog.  I am just curios where EOTL is coming from?  EOTL makes some bold statements and it would be interesting to see where he/she is coming from.


Dude, get out of this forum while you still can.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Wow, could they be anymore tone deaf? Any bets on when we see, "Defund the Teachers"?


I told my wife what we all really want is to get rid of all the bad cops, bad teachers, bad attorneys, bad coaches, bad Docs, bad clubs, bad bosses, bad ac tech guy, cheaters in sports and those who pay to play and take spots from others who earned it.  Let's just ask all the bad people to stop being bad and change and do good.   No more bad apples!!!!


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

Hugh Jasol said:


> What is the correlation between Charter Schools and Racism?
> 
> What is your definition of “racist”?
> 
> Can you provide an itemized list of the lots of reasons Charter Schools need to go?


Wasting your time, he's a clown. FYI, his definition of "racist" is anyone who challenges or disagrees with him. Deep, right.


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Dude, get out of this forum while you still can.


yet here you are...the blocked list guy. Funny how that works.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)

gkmom said:


> Sorry to hear about your brother's experience. My son's asthma is not allergy or excercise induced. Only viruses/respiratory illnesses. He's also 14, so I'm still undecided if I feel comfortable that he's protected from this virus because he's a "kid".
> But, there is not much information on covid and asthma,especially in younger people. COPD is one of the top three risk factors. I'm hoping there will be more concrete information soon.


I have friend whose dd just quit soccer all together until more info come out.  She has asthma too.  She's super smart and will be a very good doctor.


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> Welcome aboard, I was just poking fun at EOTL at your expense.  Do you like fiction?
> 
> All kidding aside we used to talk about soccer when it existed, but many of us have fallen down the Covid rabbit hole and I'm one of the worst offenders.


Challenge accepted.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Dude, get out of this forum while you still can.


That is the best advice ever. I got the same advice last year and I didnt listen.  Now, I cant leave!!!


----------



## MacDre (Jul 15, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Umm, # of positive people are only people that were tested for COVID.  thats why we had a 5% mortality rate at the beginning of this fear mongering.  That is why it has dropped to like .2%.  Unless you think this virus got weaker, the rate has decreased because more people got tested.  Lets not pretend people that got killed by gunshots were listed as COVID deaths. Lets not pretend drug overdoses were not listed as COVID deaths, and yes when a doctor says a person is terminally ill with a week to live, getting COVID 3 days out was not the cause of death.  It makes sense that we have a large number of "COVID deaths" when we add that label to people who dont have much longer to live.  Especially when the guidlines say you dont need a positive COVID test to label a death certificate as a COVID death.  These are facts. Sorry but i have a problem saying someone possibly dying WITH COVID as a COVID death when it determines whether we should shut down our economy as well as adversely effect the health of people quarantining themselves either due to mental health or delayed elective care.


Not sure why you’re fixated on the fatality ratio, but it is # of covid deaths divided by the #of confirmed covid cases. It’s a statistical fact. People who aren’t covid positive aren’t considered. Unless you have documented proof that hospitals/public health officials are falsifying covid related deaths, then you are simply peddling in conspiracy theories. What would their incentive be? Why would countries around the world also falsely label deaths as covid related when they weren’t? They shut down their economies too. Sometimes a deadly virus is really a deadly virus. This isn’t some grand global political scheme. Covid is serious, highly contagious and sometimes deadly. Not many people want to play Russian roulette with their lives or the lives of their children. This ain’t hard. Have a nice day.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> You must be new here?





Hugh Jasol said:


> What is the correlation between Charter Schools and Racism?
> 
> What is your definition of “racist”?
> 
> Can you provide an itemized list of the lots of reasons Charter Schools need to go?


Charter schools often increase segregation in primary education, even when their stated goal is to remove the geographical attendance restrictions that cause de facto segregation. This is obviously not always the case and in many instances they do help. But they are also often used to perpetuate segregation, especially in the south. 

I’m not going to give you an exhaustive list, as you can easily find reasons online. You’ll need to do your own research. It also requires looking at them from the perspective of what is good for education in the U.S. instead of what is best for me, here, right now without regard for how they impact others. I know that is not possible for MAGAts.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> All the more reason to get rid of public school teachers in unions.  There is a benefit to keep charter school teachers who we can fire easily for poor performance.
> 
> Charter schools need to stay.  If a family is stuck in a failing school district, they need a better option to go to.  Parents wouldnt go through the trouble of leaving a school in their zone if a charter school was worse than the school they are zoned in.
> 
> ...


Messy, EOTL and ESPY will be the new leaders of the forum if Joe wins that's for sure.  We will all have to ask for forgiveness and they will be in charge of you and your family.  Think about Judge Messy and then the Executioner EOTL.  ESPY will be there for us to appeal our sins but he will deny us a pardon and you will be in the hands of EOTL.  Scary, but you can see how these fools talk.  I will fight and speak as long as I can breath!!!!


----------



## dad4 (Jul 15, 2020)

Hugh Jasol said:


> I am pretty new here and figured out soccer is not the purpose of this blog.  I am just curios where EOTL is coming from?  EOTL makes some bold statements and it would be interesting to see where he/she is coming from.


We will go back to insulting each other about soccer when our kids can go back to playing soccer.  Until then, the soccer purists are fighting a losing battle to keep everyone on topic.


----------



## gkmom (Jul 15, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I have friend whose dd just quit soccer all together until more info come out.  She has asthma too.  She's super smart and will be a very good doctor.


My son wants to be a doctor too!


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 15, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> why start with charter school teachers?


Because they make the public school teachers look bad.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

dad4 said:


> We will go back to insulting each other about soccer when our kids can go back to playing soccer.  Until then, the soccer purists are fighting a losing battle to keep everyone on topic.


As soon as the bigots keep it to soccer, so will I. As long as they keep going that direction, however, so will I.


----------



## Patandpats (Jul 15, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> That is the best advice ever. I got the same advice last year and I didnt listen.  Now, I cant leave!!!


Genuinely curious.  Do you have a job? I spy this board, occasionally chime in, but work, spend time with my fam, socialize, workout, etc.  I've seen days where every newest comment on every post was you.  I regularly see your comments being put in morning, noon and night.  Maybe it's entertaining for you or maybe it's a stress relief, but seems to me you are spending your day shouting in to the void.  I'm not saying it's all you do, but man you and a handful of others seem to live here.

On another note, 6,700 people in CA are now hospitalized with Covid.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Because they make the public school teachers look bad.


Sure. Uber for teachers is really great for kids and society.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> As soon as the bigots keep it to soccer, so will I. As long as they keep going that direction, however, so will I.


You could start by not labeling people as bigot every time someone disagrees with you.


----------



## Overlap (Jul 15, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> We can find alternatives to youth sports. There have been many good suggestions for replacing the physical part of club soccer, it's the social and emotional part that is a challenge.
> 
> But, the more serious problem is schools not reopening. Kids must have the structured daily academic environment that school provides, not only for continued learning, but also social and emotional needs...this is not easily replaced, not should it be. Kids have been out of school since early March, returing to school is a must. School is as essential, or even more so, as any Costco or Walmart.
> 
> ...


And ALL parents need to take a stand! I'm so glad our kids are done with LAUSD, their latest demands are nothing short of extortion on steroids. Open the schools and get back to SOCCER!


----------



## NumberTen (Jul 15, 2020)

Hugh Jasol said:


> I am pretty new here and figured out soccer is not the purpose of this blog.  I am just curious where EOTL is coming from?  EOTL makes some bold statements and it would be interesting to see where he/she is coming from.


Usually of of his ass!


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Sure. Uber for teachers is really great for kids and society.


Charter schools are a good deal. As I drive around Phoenix I see a lot going up in poorer areas and always think good for them. Finally those families in those areas have a choice and can get out of the crappy public schools.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)

Patandpats said:


> Genuinely curious.  *Do you have a job?* *I spy this board*, occasionally chime in, but work, spend time with my fam, socialize, workout, etc.  I've seen days where every newest comment on every post was you.  I regularly see your comments being put in morning, noon and night.  Maybe it's entertaining for you or maybe it's a stress relief, but seems to me you are spending your day shouting in to the void.  I'm not saying it's all you do, but man you and a handful of others seem to live here.
> 
> On another note, 6,700 people in CA are now hospitalized with Covid.


Go back and read last July's ECNL vs GDA Toxi war or something like that.  You need to read up Pats and then PM and I will share whatever you want to know about me and my family.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Not sure why you’re fixated on the fatality ratio, but it is # of covid deaths divided by the #of confirmed covid cases. It’s a statistical fact. People who aren’t covid positive aren’t considered. Unless you have documented proof that hospitals/public health officials are falsifying covid related deaths, then you are simply peddling in conspiracy theories. What would their incentive be? Why would countries around the world also falsely label deaths as covid related when they weren’t? They shut down their economies too. Sometimes a deadly virus is really a deadly virus. This isn’t some grand global political scheme. Covid is serious, highly contagious and sometimes deadly. Not many people want to play Russian roulette with their lives or the lives of their children. This ain’t hard. Have a nice day.


Why would CDC update the mortality rate closer to .2% then?  Its because more data is available.  Not just confirmed COVID tests, but Antibody tests as well.  The proof that the mortality rate initially put out is inaccurate is the fact that it went from 5% to .2%. With more data, to include better access to COVID tests is the reason why the mortality rate is so low now.  Its the reason why the media isnt talking about deaths, or mortality rates anymore.  Its now talking about the number of positive tests which we knew would be higher as more asymptomatic people get tested. This isnt a conspiracy unless you claim the CDC is spreading conspiracies as well.  I can understand getting a ratio based on the facts that they had which was a small sample size of only the severly ill getting the tests. but the fact that a large population of the country that are asymptomatic or with mild symptoms were not getting tested was completely understated.  I blame the media for spreading hysteria because they are in the business getting views.  That would be medias incentive.  on why COVID deaths have a very lenient form of identification you would have ask CDC for that.  the guidelines are posted.  They literally said you dont need a positive test to be labeled a COVID death.  Just assumed. these are facts that you can get from the CDC.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You could start by not labeling people as bigot every time someone disagrees with you.


I only label bigots bigots. Don’t want to sell cake to gay people? Bigot. Drop the N word and call black people hoodrats indiscriminately? Bigot. Blame BLM, and BLM only, for your kids having to go to school online? Also bigot. And then there’s @Ellejustus. Hard to tell whether he’s a racist or just pretending to be one because that’s the only crowd that seems to pay attention.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Charter schools often increase segregation in primary education, even when their stated goal is to remove the geographical attendance restrictions that cause de facto segregation. This is obviously not always the case and in many instances they do help. But they are also often used to perpetuate segregation, especially in the south.
> 
> I’m not going to give you an exhaustive list, as you can easily find reasons online. You’ll need to do your own research. It also requires looking at them from the perspective of what is good for education in the U.S. instead of what is best for me, here, right now without regard for how they impact others. I know that is not possible for MAGAts.


Joe Biden literally says he doesnt want his white kids growing up in a racial jungle, preventing further integrated schools, yet you say republicans are racist.  that is insane.


----------



## Patandpats (Jul 15, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Go back and read last July's ECNL vs GDA Toxi war or something like that.  You need to read up Pats and then PM and I will share whatever you want to know about me and my family.


Yikes, that's the last thing I would want to do.  And kid of the point.  I'm here for soccer info, sadly have been sucked in occasionally to a shouting in to the void Covid discussion and responded to the fake Sherriff, the other big racist and a couple others who said disgusting things.

Logging off for today.  You do you. If being here 24/7 is worth it or healthy or helpful then it's not my business.  I probably shouldn't have said anything, but honestly just can't believe how often you are here, especially when there's no soccer to discuss.  Hat tip to Kante who provides the most useful info on this site and has been basically gone since soccer shut down.  My role model.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Charter schools are a good deal. As I drive around Phoenix I see a lot going up in poorer areas and always think good for them. Finally those families in those areas have a choice and can get out of the crappy public schools.


It’s great right up until they get nailed for fraud. Or waste. Or mismanagement. Too often they just squander taxpayer dollars with zero accountability and at the long term expense of teachers (and students) due to the crappy teacher pay on general.  Perhaps it’s a shame that so many bad ones screw things up for the few good ones, but that’s how it is.

One major premise of charter schools is that parents want all the perceived benefits of a private school without having to pay for it.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> As soon as the bigots keep it to soccer, so will I. As long as they keep going that direction, however, so will I.


Let me guess:

Growing up as a kid...you were a obnoxiously whiny punk with no friends, right?


----------



## watfly (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Charter schools often increase segregation in primary education, even when their stated goal is to remove the geographical attendance restrictions that cause de facto segregation. This is obviously not always the case and in many instances they do help. But they are also often used to perpetuate segregation, especially in the south.


Not all charter schools are created equal and I can't speak to the schools in the South.  Locally we have two charter high schools that are highly successful in both integration and education.  On the primary level, while not a charter school, my kids attended their neighborhood elementary school which was also a magnet school.  A PE magnet of all things, which was the only PE magnet in the SDUSD.  Overall it was a very good school with high parent involvement, solid teachers and a great community culture (minus the one principal who often came to school under the influence, undercalculated the number of teachers the school qualified for and failed to report a couple incidents of child to child sexual abuse which resulted in a federal investigation).    As a result, a lot of kids (I believe 40%) came from other neighborhoods including many low income minority communities.  Unfortunately, we lost our magnet designation because the Area Superintendent for the lower income areas complained that she was losing too many students to our school which meant she was losing Title 1 money for her schools.  So our magnet designation was stripped and choice was limited for the kids in the underperforming schools.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I only label bigots bigots. Don’t want to sell cake to gay people? Bigot. Drop the N word and call black people hoodrats indiscriminately? Bigot. Blame BLM, and BLM only, for your kids having to go to school online? Also bigot. And then there’s @Ellejustus. *Hard to tell whether he’s a racist or just pretending to be one because that’s the only crowd that seems to pay attention.*


Tell you want EOTL.  Me, my pal Bruno and two other black educators meet up from time to time.  Actually, we talk all the time on the phone but were meeting up next Saturday in Irvine to see how we can help bring peace and not hate.  Why don;t you come and meet me and my friends?  I mean that 100% and then you can ask my friends your hard question that seems hard for you.  At least it's hard to tell with me.   You really do like to insert your power and beliefs on others.  You're way worse then any church I ever went to, I promise you that.  And guess what i was called by just about every church leader when I left?  That's right, a church hopper.  Hope away from bad apples and bad apples are everywhere..........


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> It’s great right up until they get nailed for fraud. Or waste. Or mismanagement. Too often they just squander taxpayer dollars with zero accountability and at the long term expense of teachers (and students) due to the crappy teacher pay on general.  Perhaps it’s a shame that so many bad ones screw things up for the few good ones, but that’s how it is.
> 
> One major premise of charter schools is that parents want all the perceived benefits of a private school without having to pay for it.


whats your issue with mostly underprivileged kids choosing a better option than the failing public school they are zoned in?  If theres fraud in a public school its easier to shut it down if its a charter school.  fraud in a regular public school, good luck.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 15, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You could start by not labeling people as bigot every time someone disagrees with you.


Frankly, that's all he's got...you know, inch deep.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 15, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Frankly, that's all he's got...you know, inch deep.


its the liberal strategy to stop getting smashed in a debate.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)




----------



## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> whats your issue with mostly underprivileged kids choosing a better option than the failing public school they are zoned in?  If theres fraud in a public school its easier to shut it down if its a charter school.  fraud in a regular public school, good luck.


That is the narrative that a white racist billionaire who has never had a real job in her life wants you to believe. Charter schools do not benefit mostly underprivileged kids. More often than not they work to their detriment.


----------



## watfly (Jul 15, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> its the liberal strategy to stop getting smashed in a debate.


Speaking of debates.  I'd pay money to watch Trump, Biden and Kanye debate.  What would be the over/under on any one of them being able to hold a single train of thought? 20 seconds? 30 seconds?


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> That is the narrative that a white racist billionaire who has never had a real job in her life wants you to believe. Charter schools do not benefit mostly underprivileged kids. More often than not they work to their detriment.


There is a Stanford study about LA charter schools serving mainly minority students. They found educational outcomes were superior to the local public schools in the area.

I for one am all for giving parents and kids the chance/choice of getting out of unaccountable failing government run schools.

Do we want to help people succeed? It starts with a good education.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> That is the narrative that a white racist billionaire who has never had a real job in her life wants you to believe. Charter schools do not benefit mostly underprivileged kids. More often than not they work to their detriment.


you should probably ask the student and parents of charter schools.  ask them if they would rather go back to the regular public school they are zoned in.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> Speaking of debates.  I'd pay money to watch Trump, Biden and Kanye debate.  What would be the over/under on any one of them being able to hold a single train of thought? 20 seconds? 30 seconds?


I expect biden to avoid any debate.  I'm sure something will happen to stop it.  His speaking is too much of a liability.


----------



## lafalafa (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> Speaking of debates.  I'd pay money to watch Trump, Biden and Kanye debate.  What would be the over/under on any one of them being able to hold a single train of thought? 20 seconds? 30 seconds?


Toss the independent in and let's have a go.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> That is the narrative that a white racist billionaire who has never had a real job in her life wants you to believe. Charter schools do not benefit mostly underprivileged kids. More often than not they work to their detriment.


From the Stanford Study.

*"Our findings show urban charter schools in the aggregate provide significantly higher levels of annual growth in both math and reading compared to their TPS peers. "

TPS means traditional public schools eotl.

"These results translate to urban charter students receiving the equivalent of roughly 40 days of additional learning per year in math and 28 additional days of learning per year in reading."



			Report on 41 Regions
		

*


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 15, 2020)

Our local small public school district just went online learning only.  Our neighbors had been hoping at least to get 2 days live, and were trying to move mountains for it (despite being LA County they were hopeful they could sneak in since Ventura education held jurisdicion by some quirk).  No soap. These guys were prepared and rolled out online learning on day 1 in the shutdown.  If they can't do it, I fear for even the private schools (my little Utah sojourn might be a whole lot longer than I'm thinking).  They are optimistic about things changing if numbers go down, but warned parents its unlikely to happen even if things calm down due to equity reasons and an inability to turn things on a dime without extensive planning.


----------



## watfly (Jul 15, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> I expect biden to avoid any debate.  I'm sure something will happen to stop it.  His speaking is too much of a liability.


This is exactly what will happen:  The Dem's will demand a fact checker as a condition to debate, Trump will say no...Biden will say that Trump just plans on lying and so Biden won't debate.  Isn't your opponent on the debate stage suppose to be your fact checker.

Hope I'm wrong, our country deserves to hear what each of them will claim their policies will be.


----------



## watfly (Jul 15, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Toss the independent in and let's have a go.


That was oddly entertaining but why are they picking on the white chicken?


----------



## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> From the Stanford Study.
> 
> *"Our findings show urban charter schools in the aggregate provide significantly higher levels of annual growth in both math and reading compared to their TPS peers. "
> 
> ...











						Racial Isolation of Charter School Students Exacerbating Resegregation | NEA
					

Charter schools are among the most segregated in the nation. Experts say the justifications offered by many charter leaders are troubling and undermine the promise of equal opportunity for every student.




					neatoday.org


----------



## EOTL (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> This is exactly what will happen:  The Dem's will demand a fact checker as a condition to debate, Trump will say no...Biden will say that Trump just plans on lying and so Biden won't debate.  Isn't your opponent on the debate stage suppose to be your fact checker.
> 
> Hope I'm wrong, our country deserves to hear what each of them will claim their policies will be.


There is no point to a debate. Americans know more than enough.


----------



## watfly (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> There is no point to a debate. Americans know more than enough.


Ok, how about for purely entertainment or drinking game purposes?  I shouldn't be making light of our presidential candidates, but if I don't laugh, I might cry.


----------



## watfly (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Racial Isolation of Charter School Students Exacerbating Resegregation | NEA
> 
> 
> Charter schools are among the most segregated in the nation. Experts say the justifications offered by many charter leaders are troubling and undermine the promise of equal opportunity for every student.
> ...


That's weird that a teachers' union publication would come out against charter schools, huh.


----------



## lafalafa (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> There is no point to a debate. Americans know more than enough.


I enjoy debates let's go.

Need Kanye for the entertainment value otherwise I'm out.  Don't need to see this:


----------



## espola (Jul 15, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> From the Stanford Study.
> 
> *"Our findings show urban charter schools in the aggregate provide significantly higher levels of annual growth in both math and reading compared to their TPS peers. "
> 
> ...





			NEA - Study: Charter Schools Not Keeping Their Promise to America's Students


----------



## espola (Jul 15, 2020)

espola said:


> NEA - Study: Charter Schools Not Keeping Their Promise to America's Students











						Charter and Public School Students Perform Similarly on Tests, Report Finds
					

The U.S. Department of Education's National Center for Educational Statistics released a report that noted "no measurable differences" in the students' average reading and mathematics scores.




					www.newsweek.com


----------



## espola (Jul 15, 2020)

espola said:


> Charter and Public School Students Perform Similarly on Tests, Report Finds
> 
> 
> The U.S. Department of Education's National Center for Educational Statistics released a report that noted "no measurable differences" in the students' average reading and mathematics scores.
> ...











						Many Online Charter Schools Fail to Graduate Even Half of Their Students on Time
					

In some states no virtual charter school had a graduation rate over 50 percent in the past four years.




					www.edweek.org


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

Patandpats said:


> Yikes, that's the last thing I would want to do.  And kid of the point.  I'm here for soccer info, sadly have been sucked in occasionally to a shouting in to the void Covid discussion and responded to the fake Sherriff, the other big racist and a couple others who said disgusting things.
> 
> Logging off for today.  You do you. If being here 24/7 is worth it or healthy or helpful then it's not my business.  I probably shouldn't have said anything, but honestly just can't believe how often you are here, especially when there's no soccer to discuss.  Hat tip to Kante who provides the most useful info on this site and has been basically gone since soccer shut down.  My role model.


Yet here you are commenting again on page 5 - strange how that works.


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I only label bigots bigots. Don’t want to sell cake to gay people? Bigot. Drop the N word and call black people hoodrats indiscriminately? Bigot. Blame BLM, and BLM only, for your kids having to go to school online? Also bigot. And then there’s @Ellejustus. Hard to tell whether he’s a racist or just pretending to be one because that’s the only crowd that seems to pay attention.


bigot, bigots, bigots, BLM, blah, blah, BLM - a Crusty the Clown routine, right?


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

espola said:


> Charter and Public School Students Perform Similarly on Tests, Report Finds
> 
> 
> The U.S. Department of Education's National Center for Educational Statistics released a report that noted "no measurable differences" in the students' average reading and mathematics scores.
> ...


Ah, right on cue the other clown car arrives.


----------



## espola (Jul 15, 2020)

met61 said:


> Ah, right on cue the other clown car arrives.


I was just following links from the Stanford CREDO home page.


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> Speaking of debates.  I'd pay money to watch Trump, Biden and Kanye debate.  What would be the over/under on any one of them being able to hold a single train of thought? 20 seconds? 30 seconds?


I got a 20 that HidenBiden forgets his name and shits himself.


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> There is a Stanford study about LA charter schools serving mainly minority students. They found educational outcomes were superior to the local public schools in the area.
> 
> I for one am all for giving parents and kids the chance/choice of getting out of unaccountable failing government run schools.
> 
> Do we want to help people succeed? It starts with a good education.


Ironically, @MacVictim dodges  the issue of school choice while screaming about minority education from his ivory tower. Libs are a smooth bunch.


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

espola said:


> I was just following links from the Stanford CREDO home page.


The Big Top called, they want their little car back.


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> That was oddly entertaining but why are they picking on the white chicken?


They're peacefully protesting.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 15, 2020)

met61 said:


> Ironically, @MacVictim dodges  the issue of school choice while screaming about minority education from his ivory tower. Libs are a smooth bunch.


Shouldn’t you be off somewhere with your Nuclear Family?


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 15, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> We can find alternatives to youth sports. There have been many good suggestions for replacing the physical part of club soccer, it's the social and emotional part that is a challenge.
> 
> But, the more serious problem is schools not reopening. Kids must have the structured daily academic environment that school provides, not only for continued learning, but also social and emotional needs...this is not easily replaced, not should it be. Kids have been out of school since early March, returing to school is a must. School is as essential, or even more so, as any Costco or Walmart.
> 
> ...


LAUSD teachers want the huge amount of money allocated to police, to be allocated to education, to your children.  You can not even come close to comparing a classroom environment to Costco or Walmart, that is a stupid comparison so I won't go there.   The biggest concern about the virus in schools is that it can be transmitted from an asymptomatic child to another child or teacher or staff member, possibly killing them or even the parents of the child who takes it home. Just one example of a problem, our school had four bathrooms for 600 students, 2 boys and 2 girls restrooms.  Even if half the student body is there that is 300 children using the bathrooms.  As a parent or visitor to our school you are never allowed in a bathroom. It can be disgusting.  We are looking at a nightmare if this virus isn't contained.  Studies have shown that the virus exists in excreted fecal matter. Enough said about that.  Everyone would love to see everyone back to a normal routine but until we do things better following all guide lines, it shouldn't happen.  In Europe where kids have gone back to school, the schools have really been able to social distance, practice good hygiene and wear masks and they still have had cluster outbreaks, they immediately trace and quarantine.   If we can do it like them, then great, let's go back. Oh, and let's make sure there is actually soap in the dispensers in schools and classrooms if they are lucky enough to have a sink in the room, paper towels would be a nice luxury too.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 15, 2020)

met61 said:


> No, I'm saying teachers are like all people, trying to scratch out a living to support a household and improve quality of life, call it heroic if you want. Some are fortunate enough to have a guaranteed income whether they work or not, others don't have that luxury.
> 
> I'd say income or lack thereof (
> 
> ...


You do realize teachers and staff don't get paid during the summer right?  You do also realize teachers pay taxes too.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 15, 2020)

gkmom said:


> I fully agree with this and everyone should do what they feel best for their family. And nobody should project onto others, judge, or dictate what they should do.
> I unfortunately have to be more careful because my son and husband have asthma (though the research on this is unclear in re to Covid). I choose to be cautious until I know more. But I would never have that expectation of anyone else.


Everyone needs to remember that kids were not in school, not in sports, not socializing at the mall, park, ice cream shop etc. etc. during the first four months, so yes, there wasn't much transmission.


----------



## Anon9 (Jul 15, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> You do realize teachers and staff don't get paid during the summer right?  You do also realize teachers pay taxes too.


Lie. Of course they get paid. Even teachers aids and “supervisors” get paid.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 15, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Lie. Of course they get paid. Even teachers aids and “supervisors” get paid.


No, I am a teacher.  I have never gotten paid for summer.  I take money out every month during the school year to put in savings so I can survive during the summer along with any other way I can to make some money (tutoring, summer school if our district offers it) .


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 15, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> No, I am a teacher.  I have never gotten paid for summer.  I take money out every month during the school year to put in savings so I can survive during the summer along with any other way I can to make some money (tutoring, summer school if our district offers it) .


You know how much you are getting paid each year, right? When I taught, they spread out that salary over the whole year - including the summer. Would you prefer that or do you prefer having the "summer" money up front? Sounds like your union was better than mine.


----------



## NorcalsoccerYNWA (Jul 15, 2020)

Teachers absolutely don't get paid during the summer. Most take their 45k (my wife's salary) and spread it over 12 months as teachers. They might get a paycheck over summer, but they aren't "paid" for summer work. They do spend the summer in meetings, lesson planning for the season, etc unpaid. My wife also spent a bunch of her paycheck on school supplies, snacks to reward her class, bought a student a pair of shoes last year (didn't own shoes that fit) and other such things. I think we need to cherish our teachers and because some parents don't want to deal with their kid during the day, they should realize many teachers come home to family members that may be high risk. My wife teaches over 100 kids a day in middle school and if 1 kid tests positive for COVID, you are now putting every kid and their families at risk. Many of us are privilidged enough to be able to be home with our kids during the day, but there's many families in this state that will have a much tougher time with this. For those families who depend on school while both parents or single parents work low paid jobs with a lot of hours, they are in a huge bind for this fall. Trying to now afford daycare is going to be a huge issue in our state. Let's bond together in these times, support our teachers and we will all move on. If we are really worried that teachers will be paid for still continuing to teach students online, we have bigger issues. I'm sure teachers will gladly swap salaries or take your donations to pay for classroom equipment or other resources they pay for out of their pocket.




kickingandscreaming said:


> You know how much you are getting paid each year, right? When I taught, they spread out that salary over the whole year - including the summer. Would you prefer that or do you prefer having the "summer" money up front? Sounds like your union was better than mine.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 15, 2020)

espola said:


> Charter and Public School Students Perform Similarly on Tests, Report Finds
> 
> 
> The U.S. Department of Education's National Center for Educational Statistics released a report that noted "no measurable differences" in the students' average reading and mathematics scores.
> ...


When comparing charter schools, compare it to the schools the student ran away from. Otherwise you are reading articles back by teachers unions trying to compare apples to oranges. Why else would racists like joe biden prevent black kids from integrating schools where his kids went? Even the studies and articles you posted said charter schools in the inner cities out perform other inner city public schools. The failing charter schools are scrutinized more than regular public schools. Your article even said the failing charter schools, a whopping 8% closed while regular public schools can't do that. That proves in order to fix the problems in our education system, we need to be able to close schools that don't work, we need to fire teachers that fail to educate, you cant do that with regular public schools. Charter schools make that happen.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 15, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> LAUSD teachers want the huge amount of money allocated to police, to be allocated to education, to your children.  You can not even come close to comparing a classroom environment to Costco or Walmart, that is a stupid comparison so I won't go there.   The biggest concern about the virus in schools is that it can be transmitted from an asymptomatic child to another child or teacher or staff member, possibly killing them or even the parents of the child who takes it home. Just one example of a problem, our school had four bathrooms for 600 students, 2 boys and 2 girls restrooms.  Even if half the student body is there that is 300 children using the bathrooms.  As a parent or visitor to our school you are never allowed in a bathroom. It can be disgusting.  We are looking at a nightmare if this virus isn't contained.  Studies have shown that the virus exists in excreted fecal matter. Enough said about that.  Everyone would love to see everyone back to a normal routine but until we do things better following all guide lines, it shouldn't happen.  In Europe where kids have gone back to school, the schools have really been able to social distance, practice good hygiene and wear masks and they still have had cluster outbreaks, they immediately trace and quarantine.   If we can do it like them, then great, let's go back. Oh, and let's make sure there is actually soap in the dispensers in schools and classrooms if they are lucky enough to have a sink in the room, paper towels would be a nice luxury too.


You have it all figured out I see. 

Speaking of stupid...you support defunding the police. GTFOH!


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 15, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> You do realize teachers and staff don't get paid during the summer right?  You do also realize teachers pay taxes too.


You do realize massive amounts of staff and some teachers have been getting paid for sitting at home doing nothing since early March and will now be doing same in the fall. You do also realize they should pay taxes too.


----------



## Hugh Jasol (Jul 15, 2020)

NorcalsoccerYNWA said:


> Teachers absolutely don't get paid during the summer. Most take their 45k (my wife's salary) and spread it over 12 months as teachers. They might get a paycheck over summer, but they aren't "paid" for summer work. They do spend the summer in meetings, lesson planning for the season, etc unpaid. My wife also spent a bunch of her paycheck on school supplies, snacks to reward her class, bought a student a pair of shoes last year (didn't own shoes that fit) and other such things. I think we need to cherish our teachers and because some parents don't want to deal with their kid during the day, they should realize many teachers come home to family members that may be high risk. My wife teaches over 100 kids a day in middle school and if 1 kid tests positive for COVID, you are now putting every kid and their families at risk. Many of us are privilidged enough to be able to be home with our kids during the day, but there's many families in this state that will have a much tougher time with this. For those families who depend on school while both parents or single parents work low paid jobs with a lot of hours, they are in a huge bind for this fall. Trying to now afford daycare is going to be a huge issue in our state. Let's bond together in these times, support our teachers and we will all move on. If we are really worried that teachers will be paid for still continuing to teach students online, we have bigger issues. I'm sure teachers will gladly swap salaries or take your donations to pay for classroom equipment or other resources they pay for out of their pocket.


Starting salary for LAUSD credentialed teacher is north of $45K.  Many are making closer to 6 figures.With great benefits and large amounts of Time Off they are not doing bad at all.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 15, 2020)

NorcalsoccerYNWA said:


> Teachers absolutely don't get paid during the summer. Most take their 45k (my wife's salary) and spread it over 12 months as teachers. They might get a paycheck over summer, but they aren't "paid" for summer work. They do spend the summer in meetings, lesson planning for the season, etc unpaid. My wife also spent a bunch of her paycheck on school supplies, snacks to reward her class, bought a student a pair of shoes last year (didn't own shoes that fit) and other such things. I think we need to cherish our teachers and because some parents don't want to deal with their kid during the day, they should realize many teachers come home to family members that may be high risk. My wife teaches over 100 kids a day in middle school and if 1 kid tests positive for COVID, you are now putting every kid and their families at risk. Many of us are privilidged enough to be able to be home with our kids during the day, but there's many families in this state that will have a much tougher time with this. For those families who depend on school while both parents or single parents work low paid jobs with a lot of hours, they are in a huge bind for this fall. Trying to now afford daycare is going to be a huge issue in our state. Let's bond together in these times, support our teachers and we will all move on. If we are really worried that teachers will be paid for still continuing to teach students online, we have bigger issues. I'm sure teachers will gladly swap salaries or take your donations to pay for classroom equipment or other resources they pay for out of their pocket.


My point is, you know what you are getting paid for the year. Whether you get it over 10 months or 12 months, you know what it is. I absolutely support teachers. My dad was a teacher, I was a teacher. You won't get any argument from me if they raise teacher salaries or actually supply the necessary materials needed for teaching, but that had nothing to do with what I posted.

Let me ask you. What do you think of the demands of the LAUSD teacher's union and how that helps the families in LA feel like the teachers are bonding with them?


----------



## oh canada (Jul 15, 2020)

Educator here...about 70% of my colleagues want to give school a shot (high school aged kids).  Masks 100% of time, outdoor classrooms and/or windows open 100% of time, disinfect 1x/week with the machines the casinos are using, in-person classes 4x/ week, Fridays online learning, temps taken daily and if you're over 100.4 you go home, no ifs/ands/buts.  We can manage our school environment and have compliance, but the worry is what do kids do over the weekend or when they get home.  We need the help of parents, but many of them are disbelievers or just don't have the balls to stand up to their kids and tell them "no, you can't go to the house party tonight."  

30% do not and you know who most of this group are -- the loudest and most defiant when it comes to any issue.  Every workplace has them so teachers are not unique.  Just need powerful leaders to take reasonable precautions and id unreasonable fears.

Elementary schools should reopen 100% as the science completely supports non-transmission under 12yrs old.


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## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

Hugh Jasol said:


> Starting salary for LAUSD credentialed teacher is north of $45K.  Many are making closer to 6 figures.With great benefits and large amounts of Time Off they are not doing bad at all.


I Wonder how many of those LAUSD folks thank an essential business cashier or store employee making not much more than minimum wage to face hundreds of people daily for the benefit of all and display the grit, heart and spine to go to work everyday for others. What a concept.


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## Soccerfan2 (Jul 15, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Because they make the public school teachers look bad.


Charter school teachers are generally the ones who couldn’t get hired by the nearby public schools. They almost always make less.


----------



## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

oh canada said:


> Educator here...about 70% of my colleagues want to give school a shot (high school aged kids).  Masks 100% of time, outdoor classrooms and/or windows open 100% of time, disinfect 1x/week with the machines the casinos are using, in-person classes 4x/ week, Fridays online learning, temps taken daily and if you're over 100.4 you go home, no ifs/ands/buts.  We can manage our school environment and have compliance, but the worry is what do kids do over the weekend or when they get home.  We need the help of parents, but many of them are disbelievers or just don't have the balls to stand up to their kids and tell them "no, you can't go to the house party tonight."
> 
> 30% do not and you know who most of this group are -- the loudest and most defiant when it comes to any issue.  Every workplace has them so teachers are not unique.  Just need powerful leaders to take reasonable precautions and id unreasonable fears.
> 
> Elementary schools should reopen 100% as the science completely supports non-transmission under 12yrs old.


Unfortunately, 100% of your union disagrees with you and ALL district employees continue to stay home with full pay. So here we are.


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## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> Charter school teachers are generally the ones who couldn’t get hired by the nearby public schools. They almost always make less.


Yet, strangely produce higher scores and grad %.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 15, 2020)

oh canada said:


> Educator here...about 70% of my colleagues want to give school a shot (high school aged kids).  Masks 100% of time, outdoor classrooms and/or windows open 100% of time, disinfect 1x/week with the machines the casinos are using, in-person classes 4x/ week, Fridays online learning, temps taken daily and if you're over 100.4 you go home, no ifs/ands/buts.  We can manage our school environment and have compliance, but the worry is what do kids do over the weekend or when they get home.  We need the help of parents, but many of them are disbelievers or just don't have the balls to stand up to their kids and tell them "no, you can't go to the house party tonight."
> 
> 30% do not and you know who most of this group are -- the loudest and most defiant when it comes to any issue.  Every workplace has them so teachers are not unique.  Just need powerful leaders to take reasonable precautions and id unreasonable fears.
> 
> Elementary schools should reopen 100% as the science completely supports non-transmission under 12yrs old.


Love the can-do attitude, creativity and courage shown here. Allow the high risk teachers to do online learning and assist in other ways.


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## Soccerfan2 (Jul 15, 2020)

met61 said:


> Yet, strangely produce higher scores and grad %.


No, they don’t. Explore that fully and you will see. Do you have experience with a charter or as an educator or do you have any knowledge in this area?


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## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)

NorcalsoccerYNWA said:


> *Teachers absolutely don't get paid during the summer. Most take their 45k (my wife's salary)* and spread it over 12 months as teachers. They might get a paycheck over summer, but they aren't "paid" for summer work. They do spend the summer in meetings, lesson planning for the season, etc unpaid. My wife also spent a bunch of her paycheck on school supplies, snacks to reward her class, bought a student a pair of shoes last year (didn't own shoes that fit) and other such things. I think we need to cherish our teachers and because some parents don't want to deal with their kid during the day, they should realize many teachers come home to family members that may be high risk. My wife teaches over 100 kids a day in middle school and if 1 kid tests positive for COVID, you are now putting every kid and their families at risk. Many of us are privilidged enough to be able to be home with our kids during the day, but there's many families in this state that will have a much tougher time with this. For those families who depend on school while both parents or single parents work low paid jobs with a lot of hours, they are in a huge bind for this fall. Trying to now afford daycare is going to be a huge issue in our state. Let's bond together in these times, support our teachers and we will all move on. If we are really worried that teachers will be paid for still continuing to teach students online, we have bigger issues. I'm sure teachers will gladly swap salaries or take your donations to pay for classroom equipment or other resources they pay for out of their pocket.


Is that part time?  What state?  All my friends make over $90,000-$100,000 a year. They do have a Masters so i think that helps.


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## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Shouldn’t you be off somewhere with your Nuclear Family?


That's it? yawn.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 15, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> Charter school teachers are generally the ones who* couldn’t get hired* by the nearby public schools. They almost always make less.


The young talented ones get passed up in the school districts, that is true.  My son's first Head Master told all the parents he has thousands resumes and he can sort through the best of best.  School district loses big time because it;s politics as usual.  You teachers are so funny....lol!!! He picked up some of the top top talent years ago and their still there.....lol!  He can fire bad teachers that all the kids said were horrible because?


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## met61 (Jul 15, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> No, they don’t. Explore that fully and you will see. Do you have experience with a charter or as an educator or do you have any knowledge in this area?


Yes, in NYC quite some time ago. I recall it being fairly similar to this more recent Annual State Assessment:

Charter schools in New York City have consistently outperformed their district school counterparts on an annual basis. Most importantly, those results come in communities where districts schools struggle with combating the achievement gap. For example, in the 2017 annual New York State assessments: 53% of New York City charter school students were proficient in English Language Arts (ELA), compared with 38% of NYC district students. In math, 48% of charter students were proficient; 41% of district students were proficient. Among African-Americans: 52% of charter students could do math at grade level, only 20% of district students were proficient. For ELA: 49% of African-American charter students were proficient; 29% of district students were proficient. Among Hispanic students: 48% of charter students were proficient in math; 25% of Hispanic district school students were proficient in math. And in ELA: 45% of Hispanic charter school students could read at grade level; while 30% of Hispanic district students were proficient.


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## CaliKlines (Jul 15, 2020)

watfly said:


> That was oddly entertaining but why are they picking on the white chicken?


Obviously, from the color of his feathers, he must be a bigoted racist.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 15, 2020)

Hearing rumors from folks in admin and on my twitter network that the state dept of education may shutter all Cali schools this fall (including school districts that want to have in person instruction and including private schools). Also hearing rules about these joint cooperatives (kids from multiple families getting together to home school) will be cracked down upon since they violate stay at home orders. Nothings been decided and discussions with state health and the governor are supposedly still going on but hearing it’s a possibility. One rationale besides the numbers and teachers union is equity (they can’t have rich suburbs do different than the inner city).


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## Ellejustus (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Hearing rumors from folks in admin and on my twitter network that the state dept of education may shutter all Cali schools this fall (including school districts that want to have in person instruction and including private schools). Also hearing rules about these joint cooperatives (kids from multiple families getting together to home school) will be cracked down upon since they violate stay at home orders. Nothings been decided and discussions with state health and the governor are supposedly still going on but hearing it’s a possibility. One rationale besides the numbers and teachers union is equity (they can’t have rich suburbs do different than the inner city).


Rumor is the same rumor I heard.  My connection is real and this is real folks.  The demands are clear. 1)  No in class teaching until 14 days of know knew  cases of Corona.  Teachers lives are at stake they say and they cant and wont teach until the following happens.  2)  No more charter schools. 3) Defund the police.  They no what's best for your child.  They will teach and you will shut up!!!


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## Anon9 (Jul 16, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Rumor is the same rumor I heard.  My connection is real and this is real folks.  The demands are clear. 1)  No in class teaching until 14 days of know knew  cases of Corona.  Teachers lives are at stake they say and they cant and wont teach until the following happens.  2)  No more charter schools. 3) Defund the police.  They no what's best for your child.  They will teach and you will shut up!!!


What a liberal blessing coronavirus has been. They’ll get rid of Trump, defund police, and get rid of charter schools which has always been a thorn on their side.


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## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> Charter school teachers are generally the ones who couldn’t get hired by the nearby public schools. They almost always make less.


Also because it's almost impossible to fire a regular public school teacher to open up a spot. Plenty of bad teachers out there that need to be replaced that unions are protecting.


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## Ellejustus (Jul 16, 2020)

I just have to say this.  Not all teachers are like this so dont take it personal if this doesn't apply to you.  I new when I came here this place had lot's of teachers and lawyers.  Some teachers and Admin people are control freaks, SOB, OCD, mean, intimidating, harsh, insensitive, vindictive, super political, abusive and retaliate on kids who speak up and have opinion.  Teacher is always right and kid is wrong.


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## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> No, they don’t. Explore that fully and you will see. Do you have experience with a charter or as an educator or do you have any knowledge in this area?


great question. Lets ask someone with actual experience. Ask the parents and kids of charter schools why they don't go back to the school the left.


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## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Also because it's almost impossible to fire a regular public school teacher to open up a spot. Plenty of bad teachers out there that need to be replaced that unions are protecting.


Have any of them taught your kids?


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## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> Have any of them taught your kids?


My kids are in a more privileged school that racist democrat leaders like Joe Biden want to keep segregated from people of color. From some of the complaints i hear, some of them do need to go though.


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## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> My kids are in a more privileged school that racist democrat leaders like Joe Biden want to keep segregated from people of color. From some of the complaints i hear, some of them do need to go though.


Thank you for honestly responding with your full knowledge of this topic.


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## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> Thank you for honestly responding with your full knowledge of this topic.


No Problem, but dont just take my word for it, ask the overwhelming people of color in inner cities that choose charter schools over their failing zoned regular schools.


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## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> Thank you for honestly responding with your full knowledge of this topic.


If you have any heart in this topic at all and not just trying to be a troll, i seriously challenge you in asking the parents and kids why they choose to go to a charter school as opposed to a local regular public school in their zone.  If there is truely no difference in test scores or quality, why go through the trouble to leave and most of the time travel to a charter school? I dont think you know anyone that actually has kids in a charter school.  Everyone that i know that has a kid in a charter school is very grateful they exist and are happy with their choice compared to the alternative.  These are liberal families to by the way.


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## TOSDCI (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Racial Isolation of Charter School Students Exacerbating Resegregation | NEA
> 
> 
> Charter schools are among the most segregated in the nation. Experts say the justifications offered by many charter leaders are troubling and undermine the promise of equal opportunity for every student.
> ...


This is an instance of "You are getting affirmation for the viewpoint that you already have".    It's like watching Fox News if you are Republican.  NEA has a vested interest in disparaging charter schools.  If you want actual facts, seek out the opposition's articles as well as NEA and the truth is somewhere in the middle.


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## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> Have any of them taught your kids?


Weren't you recently posting on another thread crying about all the off topic threads and disparaging posters for partaking in other than soccer discussions? Yet here you are partaking.


----------



## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> If you have any heart in this topic at all and not just trying to be a troll, i seriously challenge you in asking the parents and kids why they choose to go to a charter school as opposed to a local regular public school in their zone.  If there is truely no difference in test scores or quality, why go through the trouble to leave and most of the time travel to a charter school? I dont think you know anyone that actually has kids in a charter school.  Everyone that i know that has a kid in a charter school is very grateful they exist and are happy with their choice compared to the alternative.  These are liberal families to by the way.


I believe you truly believe this, but your past posts on their forum lead me to not believe it for myself.


----------



## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Weren't you recently posting on another thread crying about all the off topic threads and disparaging posters for partaking in other than soccer discussions? Yet here you are partaking.


I respond to, but I do not initiate, offtopic posts in soccer-related threads.  In case you haven't noticed, this is not a soccer-related thread and was not intended by the original poster to be one.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Racial Isolation of Charter School Students Exacerbating Resegregation | NEA
> 
> 
> Charter schools are among the most segregated in the nation. Experts say the justifications offered by many charter leaders are troubling and undermine the promise of equal opportunity for every student.
> ...


That is funny. Because when my kids go play for their HS charter school vs others in the poorer areas, those teams are made up of mainly minorities. And those kids are getting a top notch education. They get the same curriculum my kids do. 

That curriculum is far more challenging vs the local public schools. 

These charter schools are allowing people a chance to get out of the crappy local public schools and get a real education.


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## Desert Hound (Jul 16, 2020)

met61 said:


> Yet, strangely produce higher scores and grad %.


And for LESS money. 

In AZ charters receive less money per pupil and have better outcomes. That is a win win for the AZ taxpayer. 

Moving from a public school to a charter was night and day for my kids. 

The public school they were at for years was consistently ranked as one of the best in AZ. And yet when I reviewed what they were learning I was constantly disappointed. 

In 6th grade we moved them. The very first week they had lots of homework. And not fluff. We were happy. 
I recall 3 weeks later one of their friends mom was talking about school. Her kids went to one of the "best" middle schools in the area and that was were my kids were slotted to go. They didn't have any homework for the first 3 weeks. Then...the first assignment was...what my friends think I do and what I really do. She was excited. 

My wife looked at each other and later said, that is exactly why our kids are no longer in the public schools. 

Over the years since then I keep track of what their friends in the same grade, but in the public schools are doing vs what mine are doing. 

It is night and day. 

I like to say it is the closest thing to being in a private school without being in a private school.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Ask the parents and kids of charter schools why they don't go back to the school the left.


Or ask why there is always a waiting list to get into these "terrible" charter schools.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> I respond to, but I do not initiate, offtopic posts in soccer-related threads.  In case you haven't noticed, this is not a soccer-related thread and was not intended by the original poster to be one.


Fine, then go back to the thread I referenced as a cry fest about other than soccer threads, where you were a cry along participant, and let them know you're part of the "problem" not part of the solution...or don't, and continue with your attention seeking.


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## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Fine, then go back to the thread I referenced as a cry fest about other than soccer threads, where you were a cry along participant, and let them know you're part of the "problem" not part of the solution...or don't, and continue with your attention seeking.


I have no idea what that means.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> I believe you truly believe this, but your past posts on their forum lead me to not believe it for myself.


Okay, I’ve refrained from getting involved on this issue because I’m a walking contradiction.  As I have mentioned earlier, I was a founding board member of KIPP Bayview Academy.  I no longer support charter schools for many of the reasons that @EOTL has outlined and I support unions.
However, I have family in the inner city and rural areas throughout the USA and the public school system is failing.  I think I mentioned the other day that my local public school is under federal indictment for suspending black and Latino students without cause.

For those that aren’t from the Bay Area the Bayview is comparable to Compton or South Chicago.  Yet the kids in the Bayview are receiving and education comparable to the expensive Independent School education that @dad4 and I are paying for.

I’m struggling with this issue because there are problems with charter schools and public schools.  This is why, I’m focusing my energy and resources on building an Independent IB school for all disenfranchised kids.


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## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> I have no idea what that means.


Of course not, that's your shtick.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Okay, I’ve refrained from getting involved on this issue because I’m a walking contradiction.  As I have mentioned earlier, I was a founding board member of KIPP Bayview Academy.  I no longer support charter schools for many of the reasons that @EOTL has outlined and I support unions.
> However, I have family in the inner city and rural areas throughout the USA and the public school system is failing.  I think I mentioned the other day that my local public school is under federal indictment for suspending black and Latino students without cause.
> 
> For those that aren’t from the Bay Area the Bayview is comparable to Compton or South Chicago.  Yet the kids in the Bayview are receiving and education comparable to the expensive Independent School education that @dad4 and I are paying for.
> ...


So Stanford took a look at inner city charters in LA and found the following:

"A new report released today by Stanford University’s Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO) found that the typical student in a Los Angeles charter school gains more learning in a year than his or her district school peer, amounting to about 50 more days of learning in reading and an additional 79 days of learning in math. “Results for Hispanic charter students in Los Angeles, especially Hispanic students in poverty, were noteworthy. The gains for Hispanic students in poverty at charters amount to 58 additional days of learning in reading and 115 more days in math compared to their district school counterparts,” said Dev Davis, Research Manager and co-author of the Los Angeles CREDO report."


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Okay, I’ve refrained from getting involved on this issue because I’m a walking contradiction.  As I have mentioned earlier, I was a founding board member of KIPP Bayview Academy.  I no longer support charter schools for many of the reasons that @EOTL has outlined and I support unions.
> However, I have family in the inner city and rural areas throughout the USA and the public school system is failing.  I think I mentioned the other day that my local public school is under federal indictment for suspending black and Latino students without cause.
> 
> For those that aren’t from the Bay Area the Bayview is comparable to Compton or South Chicago.  Yet the kids in the Bayview are receiving and education comparable to the expensive Independent School education that @dad4 and I are paying for.
> ...


So, you're building a Charter School. Well done.


----------



## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> When comparing charter schools, compare it to the schools the student ran away from. Otherwise you are reading articles back by teachers unions trying to compare apples to oranges.


This is a critical distinction.  In our area the charter schools are comparable in academics to our public schools.  However, the charter schools are light years ahead of the schools in the areas that many of the students come from.

One difference between the charters vs. the public schools in our area is that the charters reach more students.  A great student in our area will excel in either a public or charter.  Ivy League and like university (if you consider that a standard) students come out of both at about equal rates.  However, a weaker student is much more likely to fall by the wayside at a public than a charter.  Charters provide more support for the weaker students in general.  As a matter of note, my children attend public schools and I'm a firm supporter of local public schools if your child is a good student.  If my kids were weaker students they would be at a charter or a private school.

Charter schools are not the panacea for our education system.  Although, they help tremendously by giving choice to those that are stuck in a shitty school system.  We still need to improve our public school systems, the only way to do that is through true accountability from bottom to top.  Just throwing money at schools is a proven loser.

The saddest part is that instead of raising the standards at public schools the unions want to get rid of the charters.  If you can't compete lets shut them down instead (just like speech and everything else).  That's not a solution it's a PC narrative.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> So Stanford took a look at inner city charters in LA and found the following:
> 
> "A new report released today by Stanford University’s Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO) found that the typical student in a Los Angeles charter school gains more learning in a year than his or her district school peer, amounting to about 50 more days of learning in reading and an additional 79 days of learning in math. “Results for Hispanic charter students in Los Angeles, especially Hispanic students in poverty, were noteworthy. The gains for Hispanic students in poverty at charters amount to 58 additional days of learning in reading and 115 more days in math compared to their district school counterparts,” said Dev Davis, Research Manager and co-author of the Los Angeles CREDO report."


I’m not sure about the format of those schools, but in the Bayview the goal is to keep the kids at school sun up to sun down and away from their toxic home environment.  Bayview kids only go home to bathe and sleep.  So, if those schools format is similar to the Bayview, those gains could be better than reflected in the study.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> So, you're building a Charter School. Well done.


No, I built a charter school 18 years ago and currently it’s thriving.  I no longer support charter schools and I’m focused on building an Independent IB school for disenfranchised youth.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> No, I built a charter school 18 years ago and currently it’s thriving.  I no longer support charter schools and I’m focused on building an Independent IB school for disenfranchised youth.


Curious why.  If you believe that KIPP does a bad job, I get it.  But if you believe that KIPP does a good job, it‘s confusing.


----------



## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Of course not, that's your shtick.


I thought you might take the opportunity to clarify your meaning.  Silly me.

I still have no idea what you mean.


----------



## TOSDCI (Jul 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> This is a critical distinction.  In our area the charter schools are comparable in academics to our public schools.  However, the charter schools are light years ahead of the schools in the areas that many of the students come from.
> 
> One difference between the charters vs. the public schools in our area is that the charters reach more students.  A great student in our area will excel in either a public or charter.  Ivy League and like university (if you consider that a standard) students come out of both at about equal rates.  However, a weaker student is much more likely to fall by the wayside at a public than a charter.  Charters provide more support for the weaker students in general.  As a matter of note, my children attend public schools and I'm a firm supporter of local public schools if your child is a good student.  If my kids were weaker students they would be at a charter or a private school.
> 
> ...


I will say, however, that students that have significant special needs are not served well at a charter.  If they have minimal needs, just a little modification/ smaller class size, charters are often a great choice.  If they need PT, OT, speech, one-on-one aid, public schools are much better.  Same with most private schools that serve the general student population.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Okay, I’ve refrained from getting involved on this issue because I’m a walking contradiction.  As I have mentioned earlier, I was a founding board member of KIPP Bayview Academy.  I no longer support charter schools for many of the reasons that @EOTL has outlined and I support unions.
> However, I have family in the inner city and rural areas throughout the USA and the public school system is failing.  I think I mentioned the other day that my local public school is under federal indictment for suspending black and Latino students without cause.
> 
> For those that aren’t from the Bay Area the Bayview is comparable to Compton or South Chicago.  Yet the kids in the Bayview are receiving and education comparable to the expensive Independent School education that @dad4 and I are paying for.
> ...


Stop being so black and white and be more both and, and everything will become much clearer.  Dre, your a former DA, attorney and businessman., right?  I have a friend right now who is torn big time.  Conflicted with his conscience.  Lets be open to other viewpoints on education and give freedom of choice and the world will be much better.  Thanks fro being honest and I have contradicted myself a few times as well.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 16, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> This is an instance of "You are getting affirmation for the viewpoint that you already have".    It's like watching Fox News if you are Republican.  NEA has a vested interest in disparaging charter schools.  If you want actual facts, seek out the opposition's articles as well as NEA and the truth is somewhere in the middle.


Read what I have already said dumbs**t. I’ve made it very clear that there are many good charter schools. The irony that someone who refuses to acknowledge the legitimate arguments in article I posted - claiming that I’m the one who refuses to look at “both sides” - is not lost on me.  You’re the only one doing that.

There are many that do very good things. But there are many that don’t. And there are also many that are great for the students they have but still terrible for the community. Very, very often the “school choice” mantra upon which people claim provides minorities greater opportunity is a sham. Although charter schools must generally take anyone without regard to location, there are two huge problems that work against disadvantaged minorities.  The first, of course, is that it often is not feasible for someone who lacks resources to send their kid to the great charter school 15-20 miles away. They can’t control their work hours and often their transportation in a way that allows them to get their kid to and from school every single day. Disadvantaged kids are also often in single parent families that often makes it impractical to consistently get a kid thay far away day in and day out. Rich (mostly white) people know that. 

More importantly, charter schools can prefer local kids when they hit the enrollment caps that they set. Put your charter school in the affluent area from which you want to pull kids, set the enrollment cap at the number of the “right kind” of kids in the area that you think will attend and, presto, no undesirables. Then turn around and claim everything is “equal” because the underprivileged kids can go to a charter school created on their own region which will be great for them based on how well yours is doing with all the kids who were already diligent students. And make sure to sprinkle in some of the highest performing minorities - most of whom are far less disadvantaged than most -!to provide cover for allegations of discrimination. It is very easy for “good” charter schools to exclude the disadvantaged, and most of them do even when it is not their intent. Overall, charter schools perpetuate segregation.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 16, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> I will say, however, that students that have significant special needs are not served well at a charter.  If they have minimal needs, just a little modification/ smaller class size, charters are often a great choice.  If they need PT, OT, speech, one-on-one aid, public schools are much better.  Same with most private schools that serve the general student population.


It’s tougher when your special needs kid is also bright.  My oldest is a smart kid who needed speech therapy.  Public schools weren’t going to offer the classes she needed.  Private and charter schools didn’t have speech therapists.  So you’re kind of stuck paying to supplement one or the other.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> No, I built a charter school 18 years ago and currently it’s thriving.  I no longer support charter schools and I’m focused on building an Independent IB school for disenfranchised youth.


Potatoes/Patatoes... I get it, your logical side allows intellectual honesty regarding public schools...whereas your emotional side frightens you from stepping out of line from the left's orthodoxy. Can't imagine the internal pretzels you libs are required to twist yourselves into. Oh well, you do you.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 16, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> And for LESS money.
> 
> In AZ charters receive less money per pupil and have better outcomes. That is a win win for the AZ taxpayer.
> 
> ...


I love how gringos claim that black people are doing great at their black people schools. Especially when it’s based on watching a sporting event. Same argument that the Board of Education in Topeka made in the Brown case BTW. The only “difference” is that you think you’ve given the disadvantaged a little “somethin somethin” because they could go to the rich kid charter school if only there was space and they lived in the area, plus the “opportunity” to have their own charter school with their kind closer to home because your is full. Pretty clever now that you’ve gotten around free busing to get disadvantaged kids to your rich kid schools.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

Newsom's announcement is apparently coming tomorrow.  There's wide speculation (but only speculation, or perhaps resignation) that he'll keep all schools (public, charter, private) closed this fall.  Also that he'll launch a crackdown on plans by some parents to have homeschool cooperatives since those violate the stay at home orders.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> It’s tougher when your special needs kid is also bright.  My oldest is a smart kid who needed speech therapy.  Public schools weren’t going to offer the classes she needed.  Private and charter schools didn’t have speech therapists.  So you’re kind of stuck paying to supplement one or the other.


I think this applies to all exceptionally bright kids with or without speech impediments.  I think it’s a travesty that all “gifted” students don’t get an IEP.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Newsom's announcement is apparently coming tomorrow.  There's wide speculation (but only speculation, or perhaps resignation) that he'll keep all schools (public, charter, private) closed this fall.  Also that he'll launch a crackdown on plans by some parents to have homeschool cooperatives since those violate the stay at home orders.


We must know the same folks


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> It’s tougher when your special needs kid is also bright.  My oldest is a smart kid who needed speech therapy.  Public schools weren’t going to offer the classes she needed.  Private and charter schools didn’t have speech therapists.  So you’re kind of stuck paying to supplement one or the other.


Amen to this.  DYS is gifted but ADHD.  We looked at public school for him but couldn't make it work.  He wasn't severe enough to qualify for an IEP (since his grades were high).  Without the IEP he wouldn't be extended accommodations....but the accommodations being extended to other kids would actually be detrimental to DYS' ability to focus-- translators in the classroom, inclusiveness of special needs kids (in one classroom we visited there's was this severely disabled kid who just sat in the corner making noises), disruptive kids that couldn't be removed from the classroom.  For a kid that needed support and needed things to be really calm to get his best performance, it wasn't a good fit.


----------



## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Read what I have already said dumbs**t. I’ve made it very clear that there are many good charter schools. The irony that someone who refuses to acknowledge the legitimate arguments in article I posted - claiming that I’m the one who refuses to look at “both sides” - is not lost on me.  You’re the only one doing that.
> 
> There are many that do very good things. But there are many that don’t. And there are also many that are great for the students they have but still terrible for the community. Very, very often the “school choice” mantra upon which people claim provides minorities greater opportunity is a sham. Although charter schools must generally take anyone without regard to location, there are two huge problems that work against disadvantaged minorities.  The first, of course, is that it often is not feasible for someone who lacks resources to send their kid to the great charter school 15-20 miles away. They can’t control their work hours and often their transportation in a way that allows them to get their kid to and from school every single day. Disadvantaged kids are also often in single parent families that often makes it impractical to consistently get a kid thay far away day in and day out. Rich (mostly white) people know that.
> 
> More importantly, charter schools can prefer local kids when they hit the enrollment caps that they set. Put your charter school in the affluent area from which you want to pull kids, set the enrollment cap at the number of the “right kind” of kids in the area that you think will attend and, presto, no undesirables. Then turn around and claim everything is “equal” because the underprivileged kids can go to a charter school created on their own region which will be great for them based on how well yours is doing with all the kids who were already diligent students. And make sure to sprinkle in some of the highest performing minorities - most of whom are far less disadvantaged than most -!to provide cover for allegations of discrimination. It is very easy for “good” charter schools to exclude the disadvantaged, and most of them do even when it is not their intent. Overall, charter schools perpetuate segregation.


You got to name calling in your first sentence, well done.  Thank you for your two paragraphs of conjecture without evidence.  If you provide some evidence of these so-called caps that are used to seek out the "right kind" I'm all ears.  Yes, many charters have enrollment rules that can favor the local community, but that's because they want to serve the local community, not because they're sorting through the "right kids", whoever they may be.  The charter schools in our area were formally public schools that converted.  So they used to be only able to take kids in the community and now they're available to a wide variety of socioeconomic and ethnic families that may be stuck in a very poor neighborhood school.  What evidence do you have that the random public drawings of students for enrollment (as required by State law) is fixed?

I agree, not all charter schools are created equal, but that doesn't mean we should shut them all down or prevent new ones.  Charter schools should also be subject to accountability, which in reality they're held to higher standards than public schools.  Charter schools can and do get shut down for not meeting performance standards...public schools virtually never.


----------



## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Newsom's announcement is apparently coming tomorrow.  There's wide speculation (but only speculation, or perhaps resignation) that he'll keep all schools (public, charter, private) closed this fall.  Also that he'll launch a crackdown on plans by some parents to have homeschool cooperatives since those violate the stay at home orders.


I so hope your wrong GraceT.  I'm not the protesting type, but this might get my butt on a flight to Sacto.  I'm contacting my state representatives now.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> I thought you might take the opportunity to clarify your meaning.  Silly me.
> 
> I still have no idea what you mean.


Not that it'll matter but sure, here you go:  Your shtick = whine to one group about non-soccer posters, lurk non-soccer posters, swoop in with something like "link" or "what do you mean"... it's a stupid little game of never answering questions...just responding to questions with questions...then wash, rinse and repeat. Basically, an attention whore.

But, let me guess what's coming..."what do you mean? link?"


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> I so hope your wrong GraceT.  I'm not the protesting type, but this might get my butt on a flight to Sacto.  I'm contacting my state representatives now.


Did you think all this would come down to no school and no soccer?  Only online school and no other options for you.  Plus, you lost your business ((many have)) got laid off or have a job barely and no help with the kids.  Here's my offer.  Every single human that is working right now in essential businesses like police and fire, nurses, Dr, AC Tech, plumber and grocery clerk needs school open now.  Everyone else can do online.  What % is that?  The healthy teachers need to help out.  This is more than selfishness.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> I so hope your wrong GraceT.  I'm not the protesting type, but this might get my butt on a flight to Sacto.  I'm contacting my state representatives now.


If you come up north, I can meet you at Newsom’s vineyard if you want to do some wine tasting.  Napa isn’t far from Sacto.


----------



## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Not that it'll matter but sure, here you go:  Your shtick = whine to one group about non-soccer posters, lurk non-soccer posters, swoop in with something like "link" or "what do you mean"... it's a stupid little game of never answering questions...just responding to questions with questions...then wash, rinse and repeat. Basically, an attention whore.
> 
> But, let me guess what's coming..."what do you mean? link?"


Well of course I am going to ask for a link, since that might help me understand what you mean.

So what is the link to the post that brought on your latest rant?


----------



## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

If I head up that way, I'll take you up on your offer.  I'd suggest a different winery, but his is probably the only one that will be open.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Did you think all this would come down to no school and no soccer?  Only online school and no other options for you.  Plus, you lost your business ((many have)) got laid off or have a job barely and no help with the kids.  Here's my offer.  Every single human that is working right now in essential businesses like police and fire, nurses, Dr, AC Tech, plumber and grocery clerk needs school open now.  Everyone else can do online.  What % is that?  The healthy teachers need to help out.  This is more than selfishness.


Well, the one thing we can say is at least we aren't New York.  De Blasio just announced that since all schools will be closed, he's going to open day care for at least 100K students (maybe more) for essential workers.  So, essentially schools without the learning, and you still get the risk of kids transmitting it.  Brilliant!

Yeah, contact your reps today if you care as well as write the governor.  Newsom is not known as a man who backs down once a final decision is taken.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Read what I have already said dumbs**t. I’ve made it very clear that there are many good charter schools. The irony that someone who refuses to acknowledge the legitimate arguments in article I posted - claiming that I’m the one who refuses to look at “both sides” - is not lost on me.  You’re the only one doing that.
> 
> There are many that do very good things. But there are many that don’t. And there are also many that are great for the students they have but still terrible for the community. Very, very often the “school choice” mantra upon which people claim provides minorities greater opportunity is a sham. Although charter schools must generally take anyone without regard to location, there are two huge problems that work against disadvantaged minorities.  The first, of course, is that it often is not feasible for someone who lacks resources to send their kid to the great charter school 15-20 miles away. They can’t control their work hours and often their transportation in a way that allows them to get their kid to and from school every single day. Disadvantaged kids are also often in single parent families that often makes it impractical to consistently get a kid thay far away day in and day out. Rich (mostly white) people know that.
> 
> More importantly, charter schools can prefer local kids when they hit the enrollment caps that they set. Put your charter school in the affluent area from which you want to pull kids, set the enrollment cap at the number of the “right kind” of kids in the area that you think will attend and, presto, no undesirables. Then turn around and claim everything is “equal” because the underprivileged kids can go to a charter school created on their own region which will be great for them based on how well yours is doing with all the kids who were already diligent students. And make sure to sprinkle in some of the highest performing minorities - most of whom are far less disadvantaged than most -!to provide cover for allegations of discrimination. It is very easy for “good” charter schools to exclude the disadvantaged, and most of them do even when it is not their intent. Overall, charter schools perpetuate segregation.


Maybe parents of studious kids don’t want their kid in a class with some slacker who won’t do the work?  

It isn’t segregation by color.  It‘s segregation by ability and effort.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Amen to this.  DYS is gifted but ADHD.  We looked at public school for him but couldn't make it work.  He wasn't severe enough to qualify for an IEP (since his grades were high).  Without the IEP he wouldn't be extended accommodations....but the accommodations being extended to other kids would actually be detrimental to DYS' ability to focus-- translators in the classroom, inclusiveness of special needs kids (in one classroom we visited there's was this severely disabled kid who just sat in the corner making noises), disruptive kids that couldn't be removed from the classroom.  For a kid that needed support and needed things to be really calm to get his best performance, it wasn't a good fit.


What grade is your child in? I ask because of the type classrooms you visited. Did the school offer you a 504 plan? These plans offer accommodations that can be identical to the ones on an IEP.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> What grade is your child in? I ask because of the type classrooms you visited. Did the school offer you a 504 plan? These plans offer accommodations that can be identical to the ones on an IEP.


At the time he was in 4th.  Yes, they held out a 504 plan but also made it clear because of his GPA it would still be difficult to secure, would require a lot of testing to justify, and there were certain accommodations they just didn't offer (e.g. a class without an ESL translator or a special needs inclusive kid).  It was a question of his needs bumping up against others.  At his private school, he operated in 4th with only an extended time requirement and one of the reasons for his winning the math medal was by the time he graduated 5th he was off all accommodations.

The ironic thing is in middle school he's now going to need an accommodation for math again (assuming the school gets open with a mask requirement) because of the masks for exams.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> At the time he was in 4th.  Yes, they held out a 504 plan but also made it clear because of his GPA it would still be difficult to secure, would require a lot of testing to justify, and there were certain accommodations they just didn't offer (e.g. a class without an ESL translator or a special needs inclusive kid).  It was a question of his needs bumping up against others.  At his private school, he operated in 4th with only an extended time requirement and one of the reasons for his winning the math medal was by the time he graduated 5th he was off all accommodations.
> 
> The ironic thing is in middle school he's now going to need an accommodation for math again (assuming the school gets open with a mask requirement) because of the masks for exams.


Yes, academic success is one inhibitor for qualifying for an IEP. In his case all he needed was a diagnosis for his ADHD to get a 504. Your examples are not accommodations. Those appear to be services for other students in the GE classroom.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> I believe you truly believe this, but your past posts on their forum lead me to not believe it for myself.


like i said, dont take my word for it. take the time to talk to some parents and students in charter schools before we take away the only option parents have at giving their kid a better education then the school district they are stuck in.


----------



## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> like i said, dont take my word for it. take the time to talk to some parents and students in charter schools before we take away the only option parents have at giving their kid a better education then the school district they are stuck in.


My kids all attended Poway public schools, academically and socially excellent in spite of the fact that the district has suffered from a series of disgraceful acts by its superintendents.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Read what I have already said dumbs**t. I’ve made it very clear that there are many good charter schools. The irony that someone who refuses to acknowledge the legitimate arguments in article I posted - claiming that I’m the one who refuses to look at “both sides” - is not lost on me.  You’re the only one doing that.
> 
> There are many that do very good things. But there are many that don’t. And there are also many that are great for the students they have but still terrible for the community. Very, very often the “school choice” mantra upon which people claim provides minorities greater opportunity is a sham. Although charter schools must generally take anyone without regard to location, there are two huge problems that work against disadvantaged minorities.  The first, of course, is that it often is not feasible for someone who lacks resources to send their kid to the great charter school 15-20 miles away. They can’t control their work hours and often their transportation in a way that allows them to get their kid to and from school every single day. Disadvantaged kids are also often in single parent families that often makes it impractical to consistently get a kid thay far away day in and day out. Rich (mostly white) people know that.
> 
> More importantly, charter schools can prefer local kids when they hit the enrollment caps that they set. Put your charter school in the affluent area from which you want to pull kids, set the enrollment cap at the number of the “right kind” of kids in the area that you think will attend and, presto, no undesirables. Then turn around and claim everything is “equal” because the underprivileged kids can go to a charter school created on their own region which will be great for them based on how well yours is doing with all the kids who were already diligent students. And make sure to sprinkle in some of the highest performing minorities - most of whom are far less disadvantaged than most -!to provide cover for allegations of discrimination. It is very easy for “good” charter schools to exclude the disadvantaged, and most of them do even when it is not their intent. Overall, charter schools perpetuate segregation.


The good thing with charter schools is that if they are shady and fraudulent you can shut them down.  They have no protection like the public schools do with unions.  As far as the demographics, you might want to look at the demographic of charter schools in inner cities, especially the ones where articles posted in this thread have shown to out perform their public schools peers.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I love how gringos claim that black people are doing great at their black people schools. Especially when it’s based on watching a sporting event. Same argument that the Board of Education in Topeka made in the Brown case BTW. The only “difference” is that you think you’ve given the disadvantaged a little “somethin somethin” because they could go to the rich kid charter school if only there was space and they lived in the area, plus the “opportunity” to have their own charter school with their kind closer to home because your is full. Pretty clever now that you’ve gotten around free busing to get disadvantaged kids to your rich kid schools.


Remember, it was Joe Biden that stopped busing people of color to rich white schools. remember that when you vote in November.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Newsom's announcement is apparently coming tomorrow.  There's wide speculation (but only speculation, or perhaps resignation) that he'll keep all schools (public, charter, private) closed this fall.  Also that he'll launch a crackdown on plans by some parents to have homeschool cooperatives since those violate the stay at home orders.


Evil.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I think this applies to all exceptionally bright kids with or without speech impediments.  I think it’s a travesty that all “gifted” students don’t get an IEP.


Im expecting gifted programs to be cut following this crazy year.


----------



## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> My kids all attended Poway public schools, academically and socially excellent in spite of the fact that the district has suffered from a series of disgraceful acts by its superintendents.


The Poway, RB, Del Sur schools are excellent for the most part.  People move to the area just for the public schools.  An important part of a successful school is community support and parent involvement.  We can point fingers at others, but sometimes we need to get involved.  The unfortunate part is that unions have become so powerful it can be difficult to effect change...but don't stop trying.


----------



## gkmom (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> My kids all attended Poway public schools, academically and socially excellent in spite of the fact that the district has suffered from a series of disgraceful acts by its superintendents.


My son is in San Diego unified. I heard Poway is going in person ( if the state doesn't step in). Do you think yours will go in person?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 16, 2020)

My son thrived at his charter school.  Classical education with virtue and character as the theme.  He learned Latin, not Spanish, which was the only thing my son hated but likes it now.  4.3 1400 SAT and best friends for life.  Uniform school too.  No prayer, no bible and no forced anything.  The best part for me as dad was my son went out for the football team as a senior.  Started as a slot receiver and made all league.

My daughter. "dad, keep me the hell out of here."  She did ok with the teachers.  She had her fun socially but most kids were their to study and frankly, she was a bad influence on the more conservative clan.  All lottery based. The key was choice here folks and the Temecula School District is really awesome. Great Oak and Murrieta Vista are excellent school.


----------



## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> The Poway, RB, Del Sur schools are excellent for the most part.  People move to the area just for the public schools.  An important part of a successful school is community support and parent involvement.  We can point fingers at others, but sometimes we need to get involved.  The unfortunate part is that unions have become so powerful it can be difficult to effect change...but don't stop trying.


What problems have unions caused in the Poway district?


----------



## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

gkmom said:


> My son is in San Diego unified. I heard Poway is going in person ( if the state doesn't step in). Do you think yours will go in person?


The district is offering in-person classes with safeguards and options for online schooling for those who want it.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> My kids all attended Poway public schools, academically and socially excellent in spite of the fact that the district has suffered from a series of disgraceful acts by its superintendents.


What does that have to do with keeping charter schools or school choice in general an option for people, many of which are people of color?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Im expecting gifted programs to be cut following this crazy year.


In most districts they are already cut or not funded.  It’s sucks because everyone with a gifted kid knows they are special needs but folks just roll their eyes when the subject is brought up.  Being gifted is a blessing and a curse.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> The district is offering in-person classes with safeguards and options for online schooling for those who want it.


Well, We'll see if newsom stays consistent and shutdown all in person classes for the state.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> In most districts they are already cut or not funded.  It’s sucks because everyone with a gifted kid knows they are special needs but folks just roll their eyes when the subject is brought up.  Being gifted is a blessing and a curse.


Thats why we need charter schools who do more with less, or school voucher, money for homeschooling.  School choice will help all needs.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> Well of course I am going to ask for a link, since that might help me understand what you mean.
> 
> So what is the link to the post that brought on your latest rant?


Fish On!!!   Try this link:  https//www.HUG-A-ROOT.com

Enjoy!


----------



## espola (Jul 16, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Fish On!!!   Try this link:  https//www.HUG-A-ROOT.com
> 
> Enjoy!


Coocoo.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Thats why we need charter schools who do more with less, or school voucher, money for homeschooling.  School choice will help all needs.


Charters dont want PG kids either. 

Who wants to pay for an Algebra teacher for two third graders?


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> My kids all attended Poway public schools, academically and socially excellent in spite of the fact that the district has suffered from a series of disgraceful acts by its superintendents.


LOL! I see,"White Privilege" too boot! If you clowns didn't have double standards, you'd have no standards at all. Libs are a Hoot!

Again, let me guess..."what do you mean?" "link?"


----------



## EOTL (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Maybe parents of studious kids don’t want their kid in a class with some slacker who won’t do the work?
> 
> It isn’t segregation by color.  It‘s segregation by ability and effort.


You have just identified the problem with charter schools more succinctly than I ever could. Privileged people systematically denying opportunity to disadvantaged people they’ve labeled in advance as slackers who won’t do the work when the reality is: (1) many of them will but for the lack of opportunity that they have ever had; and (2) it’s easier to not give a s**t about anyone else. Charter schools often make things worse by turning limited opportunity for those in disadvantaged groups to no opportunity.  Many of the “best” systematically exclude anyone who isn’t already easy, taking the already limited funds available at the schools where they’re stuck, and leaving them surrounded by an even higher percentage of disadvantaged kids, which only exacerbates the lack of systematic opportunity for disadvantaged groups.  Pointing to 10 minorities who benefited from charter schools who usually weren’t particularly disadvantaged to begin with and ignoring the many others whose situations were made worse because of it is, well, the American Way to pretend inequality isn’t the problem it is.

And yes, it is segregation by color when this happens. You call it “ability and effort”, but it’s just code for “opportunity.” The mere fact that a charter school won’t even bother with those who need help the most, or even those who just need a slight boost in that direction, is the problem, and that is very racial even if not explicitly stated in your charter school’s charter.

I get that the “American Way” is a ridiculously selfish “what is best for me right now” without regard for others, society at large, or even the long term implications for your own children, no matter how petty or undisruptive of your life. Wearing a mask is an annoyance, so our kids get no team sports or school.  Supporting protection of confederate monuments that people didn’t even know existed until someone tore them down, or at least their ”lawful” removal by local governments that are often blatantly racist, results in less than civil disobedience. Wanting your kid surrounded only by the “right kind” of kids to make their lives easy now is harmful when done in a large scale as is the case here. When they’re adults, your kids get to deal with the financial and social consequences of societal decisions that are exacerbating inequality in the U.S.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

espola said:


> Coocoo.


Ah, added "coocoo" to your response list. Although, you're a little old for "coocoo" boomer. Did you pick it off a post from the little girls you stalk?


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I get that the “American Way” is a ridiculously selfish “what is best for me right now” without regard for others, society at large, or even the long term implications for your own children, no matter how petty or undisruptive of your life. Wearing a mask is an annoyance, so our kids get no team sports or school.


Most people are selfish when it comes to their kids.  Even the act of having the child is inherently selfish (so no child ever asks to be born).  I point out that even President Obama put his kids in fancy private schools.  

The problem with the right has always been that it leans into this selfishness.  The problem with the left is that it assumes its utopias will involve people acting like angels instead of the schmucks they are.  Then when the schemes fail they are forced to try and build the perfect Soviet man.


----------



## met61 (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Most people are selfish when it comes to their kids.  Even the act of having the child is inherently selfish (so no child ever asks to be born).  I point out that even President Obama put his kids in fancy private schools.
> 
> The problem with the right has always been that it leans into this selfishness.  The problem with the left is that it assumes its utopias will involve people acting like angels instead of the schmucks they are.  Then when the schemes fail they are forced to try and build the perfect Soviet man.


Wow! Seriously @EOTL, @Grace T. just handed you your ass...probably best to prance back to the clown car and hit the road.


----------



## met61 (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> What does that have to do with keeping charter schools or school choice in general an option for people, many of which are people of color?


Nothing, he's just touting his "privilege."


----------



## dad4 (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> You have just identified the problem with charter schools more succinctly than I ever could. Privileged people systematically denying opportunity to disadvantaged people they’ve labeled in advance as slackers who won’t do the work when the reality is: (1) many of them will but for the lack of opportunity that they have ever had; and (2) it’s easier to not give a s**t about anyone else. Charter schools often make things worse by turning limited opportunity for those in disadvantaged groups to no opportunity.  Many of the “best” systematically exclude anyone who isn’t already easy, taking the already limited funds available at the schools where they’re stuck, and leaving them surrounded by an even higher percentage of disadvantaged kids, which only exacerbates the lack of systematic opportunity for disadvantaged groups.  Pointing to 10 minorities who benefited from charter schools who usually weren’t particularly disadvantaged to begin with and ignoring the many others whose situations were made worse because of it is, well, the American Way to pretend inequality isn’t the problem it is.
> 
> And yes, it is segregation by color when this happens. You call it “ability and effort”, but it’s just code for “opportunity.” The mere fact that a charter school won’t even bother with those who need help the most, or even those who just need a slight boost in that direction, is the problem, and that is very racial even if not explicitly stated in your charter school’s charter.
> 
> I get that the “American Way” is a ridiculously selfish “what is best for me right now” without regard for others, society at large, or even the long term implications for your own children, no matter how petty or undisruptive of your life. Wearing a mask is an annoyance, so our kids get no team sports or school.  Supporting protection of confederate monuments that people didn’t even know existed until someone tore them down, or at least their ”lawful” removal by local governments that are often blatantly racist, results in less than civil disobedience. Wanting your kid surrounded only by the “right kind” of kids to make their lives easy now is harmful when done in a large scale as is the case here. When they’re adults, your kids get to deal with the financial and social consequences of societal decisions that are exacerbating inequality in the U.S.


So, when making soccer teams, do you segregate by ability and effort?  

Or do you help out the soccer disadvantaged kids by putting them in flight 1?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> You have just identified the problem with charter schools more succinctly than I ever could. Privileged people systematically denying opportunity to disadvantaged people they’ve labeled in advance as slackers who won’t do the work when the reality is: (1) many of them will but for the lack of opportunity that they have ever had; and (2) it’s easier to not give a s**t about anyone else. Charter schools often make things worse by turning limited opportunity for those in disadvantaged groups to no opportunity.  Many of the “best” systematically exclude anyone who isn’t already easy, taking the already limited funds available at the schools where they’re stuck, and leaving them surrounded by an even higher percentage of disadvantaged kids, which only exacerbates the lack of systematic opportunity for disadvantaged groups.  Pointing to 10 minorities who benefited from charter schools who usually weren’t particularly disadvantaged to begin with and ignoring the many others whose situations were made worse because of it is, well, the American Way to pretend inequality isn’t the problem it is.
> 
> And yes, it is segregation by color when this happens. You call it “ability and effort”, but it’s just code for “opportunity.” The mere fact that a charter school won’t even bother with those who need help the most, or even those who just need a slight boost in that direction, is the problem, and that is very racial even if not explicitly stated in your charter school’s charter.
> 
> I get that the “American Way” is a ridiculously selfish “what is best for me right now” without regard for others, society at large, or even the long term implications for your own children, no matter how petty or undisruptive of your life. Wearing a mask is an annoyance, so our kids get no team sports or school.  Supporting protection of confederate monuments that people didn’t even know existed until someone tore them down, or at least their ”lawful” removal by local governments that are often blatantly racist, results in less than civil disobedience. Wanting your kid surrounded only by the “right kind” of kids to make their lives easy now is harmful when done in a large scale as is the case here. When they’re adults, your kids get to deal with the financial and social consequences of societal decisions that are exacerbating inequality in the U.S.


Financial and social consequences... you mean like my tax dollars paying for inmates and rebuilding damage caused by uneducated rioters?


----------



## met61 (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> So, when making soccer teams, do you segregate by ability and effort?
> 
> Or do you help out the soccer disadvantaged kids by putting them in flight 1?


Please stop using logic and common sense...these clowns only comprehend feeeelings and emotion.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Thats why we need charter schools who do more with less, or school voucher, money for homeschooling.  School choice will help all needs.


Homeschoolers asking for government subsidies. What a joke. If you want to do it yourself, do it yourself.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 16, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Financial and social consequences... you mean like my tax dollars paying for inmates and rebuilding damage caused by uneducated rioters?


Exactly. If you’re gonna be a d**k and perpetuate inequality, you’re gonna pay for it.


----------



## met61 (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Homeschoolers asking for government subsidies. What a joke. If you want to do it yourself, do it yourself.


Bozo, it's called return my taxes so I can choose....you know, like taxpayer funded choice...or it's my kid, my taxes, my choice! You know that, but you clowns play the selective choice game.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Exactly. If you’re gonna be a d**k and perpetuate inequality, you’re gonna pay for it.


"perpetuate inequality".  Yeah... God forbid the 'victims' themselves ever be held accountable.


----------



## met61 (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Exactly. If you’re gonna be a d**k and perpetuate inequality, you’re gonna pay for it.


"Alex, I'll take Spanky The Clown for 1000"


----------



## EOTL (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> So, when making soccer teams, do you segregate by ability and effort?
> 
> Or do you help out the soccer disadvantaged kids by putting them in flight 1?


Soccer is a child’s sport played by children, with no meaningful impact as an adult for more than maybe 30 women in the entire U.S.  Education is important for society, youth soccer is not. That you think youth soccer is an appropriate analogy to life and education says a lot about you.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Homeschoolers asking for government subsidies. What a joke. If you want to do it yourself, do it yourself.


A joke is my taxes paying for the schools to provide meals to lowlifes that have kids they can't feed.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Soccer is a child’s sport played by children, with no meaningful impact as an adult for more than maybe 30 women in the entire U.S.  Education is important for society, youth soccer is not. That you think youth soccer is an appropriate analogy to life and education says a lot about you.


In other words, if you want to teach something minor, like soccer, you put them with a subject matter expert and group by effort and ability.

If you want to teach something important, like math or writing, you put them with a generalist and group them at random.

I agree they are dissimilar, but I think you have them backwards.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Homeschoolers asking for government subsidies. What a joke. If you want to do it yourself, do it yourself.


Why? they get $2800 right now, or at least they were supposed to until newsom put a stop to it knowing full well that public schools have no experience doing distance learning. It Costs 12k to educate a kid in california.  Even if a parent took 6k a year it would save the government 6k.  our taxes pay to educate our children.  Parents shouldnt have to pay twice because of a horrible public school system.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I love how gringos claim that black people are doing great at their black people schools. Especially when it’s based on watching a sporting event. Same argument that the Board of Education in Topeka made in the Brown case BTW. The only “difference” is that you think you’ve given the disadvantaged a little “somethin somethin” because they could go to the rich kid charter school if only there was space and they lived in the area, plus the “opportunity” to have their own charter school with their kind closer to home because your is full. Pretty clever now that you’ve gotten around free busing to get disadvantaged kids to your rich kid schools.


See that is your ignorance again.  

These schools could be set just in the whitey area. Instead they are spread out through all the neighborhoods in Phoenix. Those public schools they are leaving are also heavily minority. The difference is, when a charter school goes in there, they suddenly have a chance to get away from the poorly performing public schools in that area. 

Since my kids go to the same chain of charter schools, I know they get the exact same curriculum that kids do in any other part of the city. 

Your argument is I guess they should drive 15 miles or more to a more affluent area to try to get into a charter school there. 

Instead the charter schools realize why make kids travel. Lets serve a need in their own neighborhoods by providing a superior education to what they are getting. 

From what you are saying...if you had your way, you would deny those kids and families the opportunity for a better education. 

That is lame. Education is the foundation for everything else. And yet you seem to want to deny kids the chance to have a better choice in schools.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 16, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> You know how much you are getting paid each year, right? When I taught, they spread out that salary over the whole year - including the summer. Would you prefer that or do you prefer having the "summer" money up front? Sounds like your union was better than mine.


Things seem to be a little for flexible now. Spread it out over the year, good for people who don't know how to save (me in the beginning ) , save on your own, or do a summer saver account.  You have to be really disciplined being paid once a month and not touching what you put away for summer. It really depends on the individual.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 16, 2020)

met61 said:


> I Wonder how many of those LAUSD folks thank an essential business cashier or store employee making not much more than minimum wage to face hundreds of people daily for the benefit of all and display the grit, heart and spine to go to work everyday for others. What a concept.


Yes they are brave, thank goodness they are protected by a plastic shield plus their own protective masks, gloves and time after each customer to sanitize. One person at a time.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 16, 2020)

met61 said:


> Bozo, it's called return my taxes so I can choose....you know, like taxpayer funded choice...or it's my kid, my taxes, my choice! You know that, but you clowns play the selective choice game.


“Your” taxes paid for public school opportunity. That you choose not to utilize that benefit is your problem. Regardless, that money isn’t yours. It is the government’s. And I can assure you that my taxes and those of like minded Californians would greatly outweigh the financial power of you and your like-minded friends. I’d greatly enjoy being able to make a la carte decisions with my tax dollars. You wouldn’t have a street in front of your house, the UC or CSU school subsidy if your kids end up there, police of fire protection, etc. I’d just keep all that for myself and the overwhelming number of libs who pay for all that stuff.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 16, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> This is an instance of "You are getting affirmation for the viewpoint that you already have".    It's like watching Fox News if you are Republican.  NEA has a vested interest in disparaging charter schools.  If you want actual facts, seek out the opposition's articles as well as NEA and the truth is somewhere in the middle.


From my own experience, parents who have tried charter schools then come back and have said the academics just weren't there.  They certainly have more flexibility and little accountability.  That isn't for everyone.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> In other words, if you want to teach something minor, like soccer, you put them with a subject matter expert and group by effort and ability.
> 
> If you want to teach something important, like math or writing, you put them with a generalist and group them at random.
> 
> I agree they are dissimilar, but I think you have them backwards.


Your daughter playing soccer does not have any meaningful negative impact on anyone else. Tax dollars don’t pay for your kid’s youth soccer club, nor does it take away dollars used to educate others.


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 16, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Yes they are brave, thank goodness they are protected by a plastic shield plus their own protective masks, gloves and time after each customer to sanitize. One person at a time.


So why not make teacher to be present in a classroom behind Plexiglas, wearing a mask or a hazmat suit, if this makes them feel safer? They don't have to be touching students or be in close contact with them.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Maybe parents of studious kids don’t want their kid in a class with some slacker who won’t do the work?
> 
> It isn’t segregation by color.  It‘s segregation by ability and effort.


Kind of like what an adult has to put up with at work.  It definitely is frustrating.  But at least as an adult, the employee can be fired.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 16, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> So why not make teacher to be present in a classroom behind Plexiglas, wearing a mask or a hazmat suit, if this makes them feel safer? They don't have to be touching students or be in close contact with them.


The difference is with young children they need help and yes you do need to be close to them ,they frequently don't understand the problem they are having to even verbalize it. Also, you are in a room with many students not just one at a time. Hey, behind a plastic shield one student at a time, maybe 20 minutes with that student, move them out, sanitize, next, so on and so on, that might work. Info only, in study after study, the dirtiest surface people can encounter is not a door knob, a phone, a counter, a faucet, it is desks of students.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 16, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> So why not make teacher to be present in a classroom behind Plexiglas, wearing a mask or a *hazmat suit*, if this makes them feel safer? They don't have to be touching students or be in close contact with them.


*Attention all you stupid kids with stupid parents.  You do as i say or else!!!*


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 16, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> *Attention all you stupid kids with stupid parents.  You do as i say or else!!!*
> 
> View attachment 8165


exactly!


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Charters dont want PG kids either.
> 
> Who wants to pay for an Algebra teacher for two third graders?


Just so we are clear, Charter schools are public schools as well.  The difference is you can shut down a Charter school a lot easier and fire a bad teacher a lot easier. Charter schools are required by law to take in all kids with special needs.  If they lie and say that dont have space or resources they can be reported and shut down.  the fact that espola posted an article that said only 8% of charter schools were shut down says a lot about the quality of charter schools. The same article said charter schools had an advantage by bringing up the average quality of charter schools because public schools cant be shut down the same way.  Also note he posted that article not in support of charter schools.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 16, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Kind of like what an adult has to put up with at work.  It definitely is frustrating.  But at least as an adult, the employee can be fired.


Adults at work are totally segregated by ability and effort.  At a tech company, you can go weeks and never have a work conversation with someone who doesn’t have at least one STEM degree.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 16, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> So why not make teacher to be present in a classroom behind Plexiglas, wearing a mask or a hazmat suit, if this makes them feel safer? They don't have to be touching students or be in close contact with them.


Hey, here's another thought, you might actually be on to something.  Let's surround each student desk, all sides, with plexiglass.  LAUSD has over 600,000 students. I wonder how quickly they can do that. Capo only has about 53,000 students so maybe we could get that done in the next 30 days.  I would go for that plus have students wear masks and gloves when using the bathroom, recess or leaving the room for any reason. Also, hire all the laid off nurses so we could have a full time nurse at every school. Our school had six hundred students so the nurse would be pretty busy.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 16, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> You have to be really disciplined being paid once a month and not touching what you put away for summer. It really depends on the individual.


I remember those days well.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> You have just identified the problem with charter schools more succinctly than I ever could. Privileged people systematically denying opportunity to disadvantaged people they’ve labeled in advance as slackers who won’t do the work when the reality is: (1) many of them will but for the lack of opportunity that they have ever had; and (2) it’s easier to not give a s**t about anyone else. Charter schools often make things worse by turning limited opportunity for those in disadvantaged groups to no opportunity.  Many of the “best” systematically exclude anyone who isn’t already easy, taking the already limited funds available at the schools where they’re stuck, and leaving them surrounded by an even higher percentage of disadvantaged kids, which only exacerbates the lack of systematic opportunity for disadvantaged groups.  Pointing to 10 minorities who benefited from charter schools who usually weren’t particularly disadvantaged to begin with and ignoring the many others whose situations were made worse because of it is, well, the American Way to pretend inequality isn’t the problem it is.
> 
> And yes, it is segregation by color when this happens. You call it “ability and effort”, but it’s just code for “opportunity.” The mere fact that a charter school won’t even bother with those who need help the most, or even those who just need a slight boost in that direction, is the problem, and that is very racial even if not explicitly stated in your charter school’s charter.
> 
> I get that the “American Way” is a ridiculously selfish “what is best for me right now” without regard for others, society at large, or even the long term implications for your own children, no matter how petty or undisruptive of your life. Wearing a mask is an annoyance, so our kids get no team sports or school.  Supporting protection of confederate monuments that people didn’t even know existed until someone tore them down, or at least their ”lawful” removal by local governments that are often blatantly racist, results in less than civil disobedience. Wanting your kid surrounded only by the “right kind” of kids to make their lives easy now is harmful when done in a large scale as is the case here. When they’re adults, your kids get to deal with the financial and social consequences of societal decisions that are exacerbating inequality in the U.S.


Sorry but that just isnt true.  Charter schools are required by law to take any kid that applies as long as there is room. If they lie and say there is no room, lie and say they dont have resources when they do, they can be shut down.  what you posted are excuses why charter schools outperform public schools that squander their resources because you have superintendents making $400k+.  What we need is more charter schools to replace the bad failing schools that are protected by unions.  Its no wonder the greedy public school system with their unions can't spare $2,800 of the $12,000 it takes to educate a child. They want to keep every penny even if its to a failing school districts where it barely trickles down to students.


----------



## Glitterhater (Jul 16, 2020)

I will probably get flamed for this but since when did parents become assholes for wanting the best for their kids? Both my children are Charter school students-We chose this path because we didn't want to deal with some of the BS going on in the public school that was detracting from class time. My youngest went through cancer treatment for several years, the smaller classes and more personalized instruction was tantamount to his success. Not all Charter schools are racist, cesspools-JFC!


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> So why not make teacher to be present in a classroom behind Plexiglas, wearing a mask or a hazmat suit, if this makes them feel safer? They don't have to be touching students or be in close contact with them.


They are.  It’s usually referred to as Zoom or Google Classroom.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> I will probably get flamed for this but since when did parents become assholes for wanting the best for their kids? Both my children are Charter school students-We chose this path because we didn't want to deal with some of the BS going on in the public school that was detracting from class time. My youngest went through cancer treatment for several years, the smaller classes and more personalized instruction was tantamount to his success. Not all Charter schools are racist, cesspools-JFC!


Very true.  However, I think the point they are making is that the “token success stories” like yours and mine are the exception and not the rule.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> They are.  It’s usually referred to as Zoom or Google Classroom.


Sorry but school unions are saying thats not possible.  Their excuse is the following:  Not every student has a computer, Not all districts can afford to give a kid a laptop to use, Not every student has great internet connection, Not every teacher has great internet connection, What about teachers with kids? they cant teach over zoom while their kids need to be attended to (or pet), If everyone doesnt have the same access then no one will because they want to be equitable which means 100% online learning without zoom or live instruction.  It will be something like khan academy and checking in on emails.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Very true.  However, I think the point they are making is that the “token success stories” like yours and mine are the exception and not the rule.


They seem like the rule minus the 8% of charter schools that shut down, while failing public schools remain open.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Sorry but school unions are saying thats not possible.  Their excuse is the following:  Not every student has a computer, Not all districts can afford to give a kid a laptop to use, Not every student has great internet connection, Not every teacher has great internet connection, What about teachers with kids? they cant teach over zoom while their kids need to be attended to (or pet), If everyone doesnt have the same access then no one will because they want to be equitable which means 100% online learning without zoom or live instruction.  It will be something like khan academy and checking in on emails.


GTFOH


----------



## davin (Jul 16, 2020)

Israel opened their schools, and it's been a disaster:  "On Tuesday, in testimony to the Israeli parliament, Dr. Udi Kliner, Sadetzki’s deputy, reported that *schools—not restaurants or gyms—turned out to be the country’s worst mega-infectors.*"









						‘The Second Wave’ of COVID Hits Israel Like a Tsunami
					

JERUSALEM—Like beachgoers informed there is no danger just before a tsunami hits, Israelis are stunned by the magnitude of the dramatic turn in their fortune. In under six weeks, they’ve gone from model nation fighting the novel coronavirus to a small, isolated country whose citizens face a...




					news.yahoo.com


----------



## Socal United (Jul 16, 2020)

I usually just read since all of this happened but the people going after the charter schools and their teachers are woefully misinformed.  In many cases, as stated above, charter schools have to take kids if they have space.  It is different for every school but in my case my charter school fits a wide range.  We have kids going to UCLA, Stanford, etc and kids that are not.  I had a class two years ago that had 11 IEP's and 7 504's as part of the 27 kids in the class.  Anyone that is in education knows that kids with these accommodations can fit a wide range of needs but still are an integral part of the needed education.  While I appreciate the very thankful parent whose kid I helped get a 4/5 on the AP test, I am much more appreciative of the parent that hugs me at graduation, crying, because they felt I was the reason that their kid graduated high school.  That is why we do it for what we get paid.  Many of today's kids cannot function in a school of 3000 people where the special ed teacher has 40-50 kids to look after.  I have been at it 20 years and nowhere near 90k and I have multiple degrees.  I have been in two districts but my daughter was dashing and making almost as I make teaching.  Like I said, normally I just read for the entertainment but this one hit a nerve.  I can't tell you how many people I have come across that want to be teachers until they get into a classroom.  It is so difficult and has gotten much more so with this new entitled generation.  And comparing a cashier to a teacher, you lost all credibility there.  

On another subject while I am here, it is so disappointing watching people attacking people for their beliefs.  Is it not possible to disagree and not cal someone a racist, a hole, etc?  I have news for most of you.  Both sides are idiots, and both sides are ruining this country.  The divisive nature we see on these boards are exactly why these other countries around the world are laughing at us.  We are too blinded by our own side to be able to see what could be.  If we ever happen to figure that out, we could really get this country on the right track.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Sorry but that just isnt true.  Charter schools are required by law to take any kid that applies as long as there is room. If they lie and say there is no room, lie and say they dont have resources when they do, they can be shut down.  what you posted are excuses why charter schools outperform public schools that squander their resources because you have superintendents making $400k+.  What we need is more charter schools to replace the bad failing schools that are protected by unions.  Its no wonder the greedy public school system with their unions can't spare $2,800 of the $12,000 it takes to educate a child. They want to keep every penny even if its to a failing school districts where it barely trickles down to students.


Sorry but it is true. They aren’t lying when they say they have room. Instead, they are reverse engineering enrollment to accommodate the number of desirables in their typically affluent region who will attend and then use that as a preference. Or they’ll establish a requirement or preference that is neutral on its face but weeds out “undesirables”, like the requirement that you must play a musical instrument to be considered. It is easy peasy to exclude those who were never taught that the salad fork goes to the outside of the dinner fork.


----------



## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Sorry but it is true. They aren’t lying when they say they have room. Instead, they are reverse engineering enrollment to accommodate the number of desirables in their typically affluent region who will attend and then use that as a preference. Or they’ll establish a requirement or preference that is neutral on its face but weeds out “undesirables”, like the requirement that you must play a musical instrument to be considered. It is easy peasy to exclude those who were never taught that the salad fork goes to the outside of the dinner fork.


I lost a roll of tinfoil, has any one seen it?


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> I lost a roll of tinfoil, has any one seen it?


Just a roll?


----------



## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

Socal United said:


> I usually just read since all of this happened but the people going after the charter schools and their teachers are woefully misinformed.  In many cases, as stated above, charter schools have to take kids if they have space.  It is different for every school but in my case my charter school fits a wide range.  We have kids going to UCLA, Stanford, etc and kids that are not.  I had a class two years ago that had 11 IEP's and 7 504's as part of the 27 kids in the class.  Anyone that is in education knows that kids with these accommodations can fit a wide range of needs but still are an integral part of the needed education.  While I appreciate the very thankful parent whose kid I helped get a 4/5 on the AP test, I am much more appreciative of the parent that hugs me at graduation, crying, because they felt I was the reason that their kid graduated high school.  That is why we do it for what we get paid.  Many of today's kids cannot function in a school of 3000 people where the special ed teacher has 40-50 kids to look after.  I have been at it 20 years and nowhere near 90k and I have multiple degrees.  I have been in two districts but my daughter was dashing and making almost as I make teaching.  Like I said, normally I just read for the entertainment but this one hit a nerve.  I can't tell you how many people I have come across that want to be teachers until they get into a classroom.  It is so difficult and has gotten much more so with this new entitled generation.  And comparing a cashier to a teacher, you lost all credibility there.
> 
> On another subject while I am here, it is so disappointing watching people attacking people for their beliefs.  Is it not possible to disagree and not cal someone a racist, a hole, etc?  I have news for most of you.  Both sides are idiots, and both sides are ruining this country.  The divisive nature we see on these boards are exactly why these other countries around the world are laughing at us.  We are too blinded by our own side to be able to see what could be.  If we ever happen to figure that out, we could really get this country on the right track.


Thanks for what you do and the insight on charter schools.  However, with all due respect I see the entitlement problem at public schools with teachers as much as I do with students/parents.  Hopefully the teacher entitlement problem is less of an issue at charter schools.  It is alive and well at public schools.  Students at my kids' schools are held to a much higher standard than teachers, in part because of the protections that the union affords them.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 16, 2020)

Socal United said:


> I usually just read since all of this happened but the people going after the charter schools and their teachers are woefully misinformed.  In many cases, as stated above, charter schools have to take kids if they have space.  It is different for every school but in my case my charter school fits a wide range.  We have kids going to UCLA, Stanford, etc and kids that are not.  I had a class two years ago that had 11 IEP's and 7 504's as part of the 27 kids in the class.  Anyone that is in education knows that kids with these accommodations can fit a wide range of needs but still are an integral part of the needed education.  While I appreciate the very thankful parent whose kid I helped get a 4/5 on the AP test, I am much more appreciative of the parent that hugs me at graduation, crying, because they felt I was the reason that their kid graduated high school.  That is why we do it for what we get paid.  Many of today's kids cannot function in a school of 3000 people where the special ed teacher has 40-50 kids to look after.  I have been at it 20 years and nowhere near 90k and I have multiple degrees.  I have been in two districts but my daughter was dashing and making almost as I make teaching.  Like I said, normally I just read for the entertainment but this one hit a nerve.  I can't tell you how many people I have come across that want to be teachers until they get into a classroom.  It is so difficult and has gotten much more so with this new entitled generation.  And comparing a cashier to a teacher, you lost all credibility there.
> 
> On another subject while I am here, it is so disappointing watching people attacking people for their beliefs.  Is it not possible to disagree and not cal someone a racist, a hole, etc?  I have news for most of you.  Both sides are idiots, and both sides are ruining this country.  The divisive nature we see on these boards are exactly why these other countries around the world are laughing at us.  We are too blinded by our own side to be able to see what could be.  If we ever happen to figure that out, we could really get this country on the right track.


Bothsides-ism on steroids. Tiki torch wielding white supremacists are not “fine people.” Calling out racists who, by definition are divisive, is not divisive. That is the argument racists and their enablers make to deflect from who is actually divisive, and also because they only like the 1st Amendment when they say hateful things, not when they ate bearing the consequences. If you want divisiveness to stop, turn over the rock and squish the little cockroaches who think that refusing to sell a cake to somene based on their sexual orientation is inclusive, that protecting monuments erected for the sole purpose of glorifying racism is inclusive, that think blaming a black woman for getting shot in her own bed by police deserved it because she knew someone who knew someone who bought drugs.

You cannot have inclusivity so long as you enable or even tolerate bigotry. Those things are incompatible. I also have one question for you.  Why are you complaining about those who oppose bigotry, but said nothing about the guy who literally uses the N word here? You think that’s ok? You think everyone should let that pass?


----------



## EOTL (Jul 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> I lost a roll of tinfoil, has any one seen it?


You used it instead of sand to bury your head. You know where charter schools are heading in CA, and you know why. October’s smack down was just the start. Hate educators all you want.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Bothsides-ism on steroids. Tiki torch wielding white supremacists are not “fine people.” Calling out racists who, by definition are divisive, is not divisive. That is the argument racists and their enablers make to deflect from who is actually divisive, and also because they only like the 1st Amendment when they say hateful things, not when they ate bearing the consequences. If you want divisiveness to stop, turn over the rock and squish the little cockroaches who think that refusing to sell a cake to somene based on their sexual orientation is inclusive, that protecting monuments erected for the sole purpose of glorifying racism is inclusive, that think blaming a black woman for getting shot in her own bed by police deserved it because she knew someone who knew someone who bought drugs.
> 
> You cannot have inclusivity so long as you enable or even tolerate bigotry. Those things are incompatible. I also have one question for you.  Why are you complaining about those who oppose bigotry, but said nothing about the guy who literally uses the N word here? You think that’s ok? You think everyone should let that pass?


If you can't win the argument, start talking about tiki torches.  You're never wrong when you can change the topic to tiki torches. 

And cakes and the N word.  Dont forget to say 'bigot' or 'racist' a couple of times.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Why? they get $2800 right now, or at least they were supposed to until newsom put a stop to it knowing full well that public schools have no experience doing distance learning. It Costs 12k to educate a kid in california.  Even if a parent took 6k a year it would save the government 6k.  our taxes pay to educate our children.  Parents shouldnt have to pay twice because of a horrible public school system.


So we finally get to the root of all this charge school debate,$$$$.  When they say it’s not about the money, it’s about the money.  You don’t like public school education that’s fine.  You want a private school, that’s fine.  But you want me to pay for the private school, F’U’, do that on your own dime.

The bottom line is people who can’t afford private school, who want to feel exclusive, want a subsidy. I thought you guys were against handouts.

And since when have you, or that private company from Texas running the charter school, ever given a Flying F*^k about inner city education?  Yeah, yeah, look, charters help the minorities also.  .

And as for charter school schools in East L.A. specificallycan tell you all of their teachers are rookies, getting paid very little.  Wow, what a surprise, a for profit company being cost effective and hiring the cheapest labor! And yes their scores are going to be higher because they take the best students.

So regardless of the education they are actually receiving, they are going to have better scores.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Bothsides-ism on steroids. Tiki torch wielding white supremacists are not “fine people.” Calling out racists who, by definition are divisive, is not divisive. That is the argument racists and their enablers make to deflect from who is actually divisive, and also because they only like the 1st Amendment when they say hateful things, not when they ate bearing the consequences. If you want divisiveness to stop, turn over the rock and squish the little cockroaches who think that refusing to sell a cake to somene based on their sexual orientation is inclusive, that protecting monuments erected for the sole purpose of glorifying racism is inclusive, that think blaming a black woman for getting shot in her own bed by police deserved it because she knew someone who knew someone who bought drugs.
> 
> You cannot have inclusivity so long as you enable or even tolerate bigotry. Those things are incompatible. I also have one question for you.  Why are you complaining about those who oppose bigotry, but said nothing about the guy who literally uses the N word here? You think that’s ok? You think everyone should let that pass?


Who said the N word?  I missed that and that word sucks.  it would be good to rid that word for good btw.  No more music with N word.  All kids love rap and the N word is used a lot. I think that would help.  Shame on anyone who uses that word.  The second word that needs to go is bastard.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 16, 2020)

Socal United said:


> I usually just read since all of this happened but the people going after the charter schools and their teachers are woefully misinformed.  In many cases, as stated above, charter schools have to take kids if they have space.  It is different for every school but in my case my charter school fits a wide range.  We have kids going to UCLA, Stanford, etc and kids that are not.  I had a class two years ago that had 11 IEP's and 7 504's as part of the 27 kids in the class.  Anyone that is in education knows that kids with these accommodations can fit a wide range of needs but still are an integral part of the needed education.  While I appreciate the very thankful parent whose kid I helped get a 4/5 on the AP test, I am much more appreciative of the parent that hugs me at graduation, crying, because they felt I was the reason that their kid graduated high school.  That is why we do it for what we get paid.  Many of today's kids cannot function in a school of 3000 people where the special ed teacher has 40-50 kids to look after.  I have been at it 20 years and nowhere near 90k and I have multiple degrees.  I have been in two districts but my daughter was dashing and making almost as I make teaching.  Like I said, normally I just read for the entertainment but this one hit a nerve.  I can't tell you how many people I have come across that want to be teachers until they get into a classroom.  It is so difficult and has gotten much more so with this new entitled generation.  And comparing a cashier to a teacher, you lost all credibility there.
> 
> On another subject while I am here, it is so disappointing watching people attacking people for their beliefs.  Is it not possible to disagree and not cal someone a racist, a hole, etc?  I have news for most of you.  Both sides are idiots, and both sides are ruining this country.  The divisive nature we see on these boards are exactly why these other countries around the world are laughing at us.  We are too blinded by our own side to be able to see what could be.  If we ever happen to figure that out, we could really get this country on the right track.


And for those of you talking smack about teachers, here's part of my rant from the school thread. 

Bingo! Studies show our kids would mostly be safe. I would send my kids to school 5 days a week, but the issue is not with the kids, it's the safety with the teachers and staff. If I'm a teacher, with no protections in place, I say F' U'. I swear no profession gets crapped on more than teachers.
We expect them to sacrifice their health (covid), spend their own $$ (supplies), work for free (covid online training), and pay them peanuts to top it off (starting salary in the mid 40's, compared to law enforcement, mid 60's). And then we call them selfish if they don't make these sacrifices "for our kids". It's a job remember.

You guys are lucky I'm not head of the teacher's union. First thing I do is take out full page ads in every major newspaper to show America how much our "First Responders for our Kids" get paid. I would put a side by side comparison of pay with other first responders. I think most people would be shocked a how little teachers are paid and how much first responders get paid. Not to mention first responders ALWAYS get their demands met when negotiating. And that LAPD Drop program is just criminal. I can go on and on, but enough my rant.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> If you can't win the argument, start talking about tiki torches.  You're never wrong when you can change the topic to tiki torches.
> 
> And cakes and the N word.  Dont forget to say 'bigot' or 'racist' a couple of times.


This isn’t applicable because @EOTL IS winning the argument.  But, I do get your point IF @EOTL wasn’t winning.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> This isn’t applicable because @EOTL IS winning the argument.  But, I do get your point IF @EOTL wasn’t winning.


It is around the 30th time he has squealed racism.

You agree with him.  I don't.  That's normal and part of why you and I have different opinions on who was winning.

No matter who was winning, how does the tiki torch tirade help?  It just annoys people and shifts focus away from the real questions.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> It is around the 30th time he has squealed racism.
> 
> You agree with him.  I don't.  That's normal and part of why you and I have different opinions on who was winning.
> 
> No matter who was winning, how does the tiki torch tirade help?  It just annoys people and shifts focus away from the real questions.


What part do you disagree with?  I thought he substantiated each allegation.  Which allegation is baseless?  Folks need to stop trying to minimize and trivialize what’s going on.  I think many are uncomfortable with how normalized racism is and are uncomfortable with how @EOTL eloquently points out these aggressions.  White Silence is Violence.


----------



## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

Justafan said:


> And for those of you talking smack about teachers, here's part of my rant from the school thread.
> 
> Bingo! Studies show our kids would mostly be safe. I would send my kids to school 5 days a week, but the issue is not with the kids, it's the safety with the teachers and staff. If I'm a teacher, with no protections in place, I say F' U'. I swear no profession gets crapped on more than teachers.
> We expect them to sacrifice their health (covid), spend their own $$ (supplies), work for free (covid online training), and pay them peanuts to top it off (starting salary in the mid 40's, compared to law enforcement, mid 60's). And then we call them selfish if they don't make these sacrifices "for our kids". It's a job remember.
> ...


Crap, now I'm missing a box of tissues. 

I'll kidding aside, we need to provide reasonable protections for our teachers.  Just like at my work, we've had to improvise to protect our employees, some of which are exposed to dozens of strangers everyday.  Let's not look for excuses on how something can't be done, lets look for solutions on how it can be done.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

Justafan said:


> So we finally get to the root of all this charge school debate,$$$$.  When they say it’s not about the money, it’s about the money.  You don’t like public school education that’s fine.  You want a private school, that’s fine.  But you want me to pay for the private school, F’U’, do that on your own dime.
> 
> The bottom line is people who can’t afford private school, who want to feel exclusive, want a subsidy. I thought you guys were against handouts.
> 
> ...


Bingo! I'll do it on my own dime, just want my dime back.
How is it a handout if it's ones own money? We just disagree on the way our money is being spent.

Me: I don't mind spending our money on the truly helpless.
You: Don't mind spending our money on the clueless.

And there folks is the rub.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

Conejo Valley USD in VC just joined the remote only list.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Who said the N word?  I missed that and that word sucks.  it would be good to rid that word for good btw.  No more music with N word.  All kids love rap and the N word is used a lot. I think that would help.  Shame on anyone who uses that word.  The second word that needs to go is bastard.


For dems it's reflexive...kinda like blinking.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

Our other neighbor Las Virgenes USD (in LA County) is also announcing tonight remote learning only (they just told the teachers).  The local paper on twitter is reporting is this might be happening because the governor is giving them all cover tomorrow shutting down all the schools in California (including charters, privates and homeschool cooperatives).


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> This isn’t applicable because @EOTL IS winning the argument.  But, I do get your point IF @EOTL wasn’t winning.


Right, in your echo chamber. Kind of like, knowing public schooling falls short and Charters work much better...but call it something else due to a lack of principle...oh, and lack of stones.


----------



## gkmom (Jul 16, 2020)

Newsom's making an announcement about schools tomorrow at noon. I will double down he's closing schools state wide like some have mentioned. And no, I don't agree with the decision. Just relaying info I heard on the news


----------



## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

Just out of curiosity, I looked up the charter high school in our area and with the exception of a few everyone was over $70,000, but the majority were over $100k and a lot over $120k.  Public schools in our area had similar compensation.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> Crap, now I'm missing a box of tissues.
> 
> I'll kidding aside, we need to provide reasonable protections for our teachers.  Just like at my work, we've had to improvise to protect our employees, some of which are exposed to dozens of strangers everyday.  Let's not look for excuses on how something can't be done, lets look for solutions on how it can be done.


Great sentiment, but that's not how unions, thus dems, roll.


----------



## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

gkmom said:


> Newsom's making an announcement about schools tomorrow at noon. I will double down he's closing schools state wide like some have mentioned. And no, I don't agree with the decision. Just relaying info I heard on the news


Really, you had to mention that.  I couldn't live in ignorant bliss for one more day that my kids would be physically back in school in the fall as choice offered by their school districts.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> Really, you had to mention that.  I couldn't live in ignorant bliss for one more day that my kids would be physically back in school in the fall as choice offered by their school districts.



Someone is cranky.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 16, 2020)

gkmom said:


> Newsom's making an announcement about schools tomorrow at noon. I will double down he's closing schools state wide like some have mentioned. And no, I don't agree with the decision. Just relaying info I heard on the news


32% of Los Angeles students NEVER logged on to online class. Shocking!

We're being played folks!


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> 32% of Los Angeles students NEVER logged on to online class. Shocking!
> 
> We're being played folks!


Even in our rich school district 10% of students never engaged with the school, and they lost like 40 students entirely (like no sign nor hair of them)


----------



## dad4 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> What part do you disagree with?  I thought he substantiated each allegation.  Which allegation is baseless?  Folks need to stop trying to minimize and trivialize what’s going on.  I think many are uncomfortable with how normalized racism is and are uncomfortable with how @EOTL eloquently points out these aggressions.  White Silence is Violence.


Perhaps I consider “what is going on” to be significant, but focus on different elements.

I’m not silent.  I just disagree with you.  I believe we have a very serious problem with urban violence, and a second serious problem with police militarization. 

I do not believe the police problem can fairly be called racism, because the number of deaths in police custody mirrors the number of violent crime convictions by race.  If the problem was racist police, then I would expect one ethnic group would have more deaths per police encounter than another.  This is not the case.

Now, is it possible to have a civil discussion on that?  So far, I’d have to say no.  Someone will call someone racist, and the discussion will never happen.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 16, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Great sentiment, but that's not how unions, thus dems, roll.


Here's the rest of my rant on the school thread.  How appropriate.

Desert Hound you stated we should not think of what's not possible, but think of what is possible. I've been harping on this since April, but why can't we get those 10-15 minute abbot tests at every school in America? We test ALL kids and staff daily, just like the do at the White House, military, and EVERY professional sports league, etc. You test positive, you go home and isolate. Are our kids not worth it? Harvard indicated that nationwide testing (not just schools) like this would cost 100 billion.

We've spent 6-7 trillion so far and we are about to spend another 1-3 trillion by the end of this month with another stimulus bill. 100 billion is pocket change! Also, by now, we should know everything about how covid travels in the air with and without masks. We should know, to the f'n millimeter, where to place the fans, suction fans, plexiglass, infrared, lasers, disinfectant, fuck I don't know I'm not a scientist, but you get the drift. And Grace, when I asked "where are America's F'ing studies" this is what I meant. And we should know this for airplanes, hotel lobbies, office buildings, etc. We should also have N-95 masks coming out of dispensers at every highway gas station bathroom.

The lack of imagination and vision form this administration is simply tragic, and we are all going to pay (my economic rant coming later). Arizona Unified is experimenting with fans that dispense sanitizers (I saw this yesterday), Arizona State & Berkeley are coming up with faster saliva tests, we have a guy in his garage telling us how effective masks are. https://www.12news.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/asu-introduces-first-of-its-kind-covid-19-testing/75-0a512c66-8271-4cd7-9eca-1a7dce4de884, https://www.foxnews.com/us/schools-utilize-power-fans-to-combat-covid-19

This kind of stuff is the federal government's responsibility and it's a shame they didn't start this way back when.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> Just out of curiosity, I looked up the charter high school in our area and with the exception of a few everyone was over $70,000, but the majority were over $100k and a lot over $120k.  Public schools in our area had similar compensation.


I was only talking of East L.A.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 16, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Bingo! I'll do it on my own dime, just want my dime back.
> How is it a handout if it's ones own money? We just disagree on the way our money is being spent.
> 
> Me: I don't mind spending our money on the truly helpless.
> ...


I told you it was about the money!  Well there's a lot of shit I disagree with also, but if I want something different than what's being offered, I either pay for it myself or move somewhere else where it is offered.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

Our local paper is confirming.  Las Virginese was set to reopen, rising cases be damned.  State health department won't allow them to reopen.  Paper says the superintendent "sounded pained" on the phone.  This is all the governor which means private schools won't escape either and he's about to crack down on new home schooling for those trying to flee the public schools.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 16, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Who said the N word?  I missed that and that word sucks.  it would be good to rid that word for good btw.  No more music with N word.  All kids love rap and the N word is used a lot. I think that would help.  Shame on anyone who uses that word.  The second word that needs to go is bastard.


Take a wild guess.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Perhaps I consider “what is going on” to be significant, but focus on different elements.
> 
> I’m not silent.  I just disagree with you.  I believe we have a very serious problem with urban violence, and a second serious problem with police militarization.
> 
> ...


There really isn’t much to discuss.  Urban violence is a problem and is the direct result of racist policies of the past and present.  Equality for all would solve the problem.


----------



## Glitterhater (Jul 16, 2020)

In case shit was confusing enough already.









						Youth Sports Confusion Continues: Parents Calling For Statewide Guidelines
					

Parents are calling on California officials to issue clear youth sports guidelines as the state and counties flip-flop on permission to play.




					sacramento.cbslocal.com


----------



## dad4 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> There really isn’t much to discuss.  Urban violence is a problem and is the direct result of racist policies of the past and present.  Equality for all would solve the problem.


I guess that explanation works for you.

To me, it is a ridiculous oversimplification that completely disregards the self-perpetuating nature of urban violence and weakened family structure.  

It also completely ignores the point that was raised. 
             ( Deaths in police custody does not have a racial element once you factor in violent crime rates. )

Like I said.  It becomes impossible to discuss these things, but not because there is no point of disagreement.


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 16, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> 32% of Los Angeles students NEVER logged on to online class. Shocking!
> 
> We're being played folks!


and another 32% was logged in under name ...Reconnecting...


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

On a call for our private middle school reopening plans.  Their elaborate reopening plan is falling apart, particularly given the governor has put baseline testing into tier 4 and prohibited it tier 4 tests while there is a reporting lag.  The panic among parents is palpabale.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

Justafan said:


> So we finally get to the root of all this charge school debate,$$$$.  When they say it’s not about the money, it’s about the money.  You don’t like public school education that’s fine.  You want a private school, that’s fine.  But you want me to pay for the private school, F’U’, do that on your own dime.
> 
> The bottom line is people who can’t afford private school, who want to feel exclusive, want a subsidy. I thought you guys were against handouts.
> 
> ...


Calm down. By taking $2800 to home school your own kid, its a tax savings of $9200 because it costs the government, really the tax payers, $12000 to educate a child in public school. Instead of wasting $12000 on a failing school to educate a child, i see no problem taking $2800 to educate your own child. The liberal state of California was obviously fine with that. Or you can move your child to a charter school. Before you slam charter schools with articles paid for by teachers unions, ask a child and their parents why they chose to go to a charter school. Otherwise you are not speaking from experience but a position of privledge.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> GTFOH











						Ask a Teacher: Why Aren’t You Offering More “Live Lessons” in Your Online Classes?
					

On Wednesday, May 20, the Washington Post published an article by Donna St. George entitled “In Montgomery County, schools and parents…




					medium.com


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Sorry but it is true. They aren’t lying when they say they have room. Instead, they are reverse engineering enrollment to accommodate the number of desirables in their typically affluent region who will attend and then use that as a preference. Or they’ll establish a requirement or preference that is neutral on its face but weeds out “undesirables”, like the requirement that you must play a musical instrument to be considered. It is easy peasy to exclude those who were never taught that the salad fork goes to the outside of the dinner fork.


If they do that report them. Shady Charter schools can be shutdown way more easier than a shady normal public school. All while superintendents are collecting 400k+ salaries. Pretty shady when school districts can't afford enough tablets or laptops to go on zoom or Google classroom.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> This isn’t applicable because @EOTL IS winning the argument.  But, I do get your point IF @EOTL wasn’t winning.


No, he is not lol.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Calm down. By taking $2800 to home school your own kid, i


I thought the governor had said you can't take the credit next year.  Part of the rumors are also that he's going to crack down on new homeschooling ,and homeschooling cooperatives (which also violate stay at home), because of a fear of a mass exodus from the public schools and the loss of federal money.  With the budget teetering, it very much is a financial triage thing.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> What part do you disagree with?  I thought he substantiated each allegation.  Which allegation is baseless?  Folks need to stop trying to minimize and trivialize what’s going on.  I think many are uncomfortable with how normalized racism is and are uncomfortable with how @EOTL eloquently points out these aggressions.  White Silence is Violence.


If anyone is racist when it comes to public schools and school choice, please look to the guy that stopped people of color integrating rich white schools. Look at the guy that said he didn't want his white children growing up in racial jungle. They guy is Joe Biden. Remember that in november.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I thought the governor had said you can't take the credit next year.  Part of the rumors are also that he's going to crack down on new homeschooling ,and homeschooling cooperatives (which also violate stay at home), because of a fear of a mass exodus from the public schools and the loss of federal money.  With the budget teetering, it very much is a financial triage thing.


Yes thats correct. With the new 2020-2021 budget parents will not get any homeschooling assistance if they pull kids out of public schools. Only the ones that were already getting the assistance.


----------



## watfly (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> On a call for our private middle school reopening plans.  Their elaborate reopening plan is falling apart, particularly given the governor has put baseline testing into tier 4 and prohibited it tier 4 tests while there is a reporting lag.  The panic among parents is palpabale.


Were making contingency plans right now for our kids to attend school out of state.

I get that elections have consequences but this is a complete abuse of power by Newsom and the unions.  You can mess with me but don't mess with my kids, particularly when they're being exploited as political pawns.  So yeah i am cranky

I've never been the anti government type, I've always felt that despite different priorities, our leaders acted in good faith for the most part.  But Newsom's actions are inexcusable.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> Were making contingency plans right now for our kids to attend school out of state.
> 
> I get that elections have consequences but this is a complete abuse of power by Newsom and the unions.  You can mess with me but don't mess with my kids, particularly when they're being exploited as political pawns.  So yeah i am cranky
> 
> I've never been the anti government type, I've always felt that despite different priorities, our leaders acted in good faith for the most part.  But Newsom's actions are inexcusable.


Gotta say I'm the same.  Was a huge Obama supporter in '08.  This will even likely cause me to vote for the incompetent idiot.

It will be funny if my kid is doing remote school in Utah (because it's already paid for).


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Gotta say I'm the same.  Was a huge Obama supporter in '08.  This will even likely cause me to vote for the incompetent idiot.
> 
> It will be funny if my kid is doing remote school in Utah (because it's already paid for).


You all need to calm down Kids will be back in school by November. There’s plenty of advancements going on with covid vaccines and related medication.
Also, one of our parents is enrolling their child in a private school that apparently has guaranteed them that kids will be in classrooms.  I don’t know how they are doing it.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> You all need to calm down Kids will be back in school by November. There’s plenty of advancements going on with covid vaccines and related medication.
> Also, one of our parents is enrolling their child in a private school that apparently has guaranteed them that kids will be in classrooms.  I don’t know how they are doing it.


There's no way a private school can guarantee they'll be in classrooms, unless the guarantee is give you your money back.  From the reporting of Las Virginess USD...they wanted to reopen, they had plans to reopen that had been approved by county health and county education, the governor's prohibition made it impossible.  IF the reporting out of Las Virgeness is correct, it's not a question of whether Newsom is going to announce school closures but how broad they are....what about colleges, what about boarding schools, what about private schools, is it only Socal and maybe Bay Area metro and are some counties in Jefferson exempt, is it for a limited time?

The nice thing about private schools is they have the flexibility to turn on a dime if state and county health allow (since they aren't subject to the ed department restrictions).  Charters have a less flexibility.  But the problem with the public schools is the unions....given the standards they've asked for, and given the precedent they've set, it is very unlikely most will be able to open mid-semester and quite possibly not until there's a vaccine.  The public schools also can't just turn on a dime given the bureaucratic red tape.

p.s. some parents on the call said that some schools too like Harvard Westlake and Oaks Christian are still holding football practices in violation of the new rules.  Don't know if that's true or not....have no personal knowledge.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 16, 2020)

I'm ready to leave.  My wife will never put that Wuhan bat virus in her arm and neither will eye.  However, I love California so much.  I will speak up for what's right and hope for others to speak up as well and that gives me hope.   My friend who teaches in a big school district says the average age teacher is over 52 and he said, many have health issues already and its not safe for them.  He loves my idea of the healthy teachers teaching all the first responders children only.  He also see's these teachers in the large room and their just not eating healthy and complain at just about every lunch hour about little Booby or Susie acting disrespectful.  Kids have no respect he says and its really baby sitting 8th graders who tell the teacher to shut up or seek revenge after school.  I know where you park.  One of the teachers had a threat with a 8th grade punk bringing a gun to school.  Scary stuff teachers have to go through.  I love teachers and some of them were life savers for me.  Some were also complete assholes.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 16, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> You all need to calm down Kids will be back in school by November. There’s plenty of advancements going on with covid vaccines and related medication.
> Also, one of our parents is enrolling their child in a private school that apparently has guaranteed them that kids will be in classrooms.  I don’t know how they are doing it.


Germany?


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> He loves my idea of the healthy teachers teaching all the first responders children only.


Will never happen because there's an equal protection problem in the California constitution.  There's been talk as well as only having special needs or IEPs go in....same problem.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> There's no way a private school can guarantee they'll be in classrooms, unless the guarantee is give you your money back.  From the reporting of Las Virginess USD...they wanted to reopen, they had plans to reopen that had been approved by county health and county education, the governor's prohibition made it impossible.  IF the reporting out of Las Virgeness is correct, it's not a question of whether Newsom is going to announce school closures but how broad they are....what about colleges, what about boarding schools, what about private schools, is it only Socal and maybe Bay Area metro and are some counties in Jefferson exempt, is it for a limited time?
> 
> The nice thing about private schools is they have the flexibility to turn on a dime if state and county health allow (since they aren't subject to the ed department restrictions).  Charters have a less flexibility.  But the problem with the public schools is the unions....given the standards they've asked for, and given the precedent they've set, it is very unlikely most will be able to open mid-semester and quite possibly not until there's a vaccine.  The public schools also can't just turn on a dime given the bureaucratic red tape.
> 
> p.s. some parents on the call said that some schools too like Harvard Westlake and Oaks Christian are still holding football practices in violation of the new rules.  Don't know if that's true or not....have no personal knowledge.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I guess that explanation works for you.
> 
> To me, it is a ridiculous oversimplification that completely disregards the self-perpetuating nature of urban violence and weakened family structure.
> 
> ...


No because of willful ignorance and blaming the victim.  Your personal opinion and my personal opinion does not matter because it’s based on limited personal experience.

The subject matter experts invariably disagree with your personal opinion.  We cannot debate if their is willful ignorance on your behalf and you deny the evidence.  Why do you refuse to look at the Sociological data which substantiates my point?
Also why do you accept the above crime statistic as valid yet you attempt to discredit Sociologist?


----------



## met61 (Jul 16, 2020)

Justafan said:


> I told you it was about the money!  Well there's a lot of shit I disagree with also, but if I want something different than what's being offered, I either pay for it myself or move somewhere else where it is offered.


That's subjugating to government...be better.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 16, 2020)

Anyone have Newsome’s email to spam him with these articles 








						Schools have low coronavirus infection rate, German study finds
					

The results showed that out of 2,045 blood samples collected from students and teachers from across 13 secondary schools in the region only 12 samples were found to contain antibodies against Covid-19.




					www.cnbc.com


----------



## met61 (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I guess that explanation works for you.
> 
> To me, it is a ridiculous oversimplification that completely disregards the self-perpetuating nature of urban violence and weakened family structure.
> 
> ...


You're just now learning oversimplification is his middle name?


----------



## Fact (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Will never happen because there's an equal protection problem in the California constitution.  There's been talk as well as only having special needs or IEPs go in....same problem.


Hate to be the bearer of bad news but the constitution is going out the door.  Washington State was talking about sending minority kiddos back to school while those with privilege stay home.  Now Seattle is talking about police layoffs based on race.  And have you seen San Francisco lately. So sad.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

met61 said:


> That's subjugating to government...be better.


No that’s patriotic.  Learn about it.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> No because of willful ignorance and blaming the victim.  Your personal opinion and my personal opinion does not matter because it’s based on limited personal experience.
> 
> The subject matter experts invariably disagree with your personal opinion.  We cannot debate if their is willful ignorance on your behalf and you deny the evidence.  Why do you refuse to look at the Sociological data which substantiates my point?
> Also why do you accept the above crime statistic as valid yet you attempt to discredit Sociologist?


I’d be happy to look at data on the point.  

So far, I’ve been offered conclusions and accusations of racism, but no data.  If deaths in police custody are abnormally high for a particular ethnic group, that deserves attention.  

Of the data I’ve seen, 

One set of data compares deaths in police custody per capita.  Per capita, there is a large racial disparity.

Similar data, if you compare deaths in police custody per violent crime conviction, does not show a racial disparity.

This is completely consistent with a racially disparate crime problem and a non-racist, but sometimes violent, police force.

If there is other evidence that points to modern police racism, instead of crime and police militarization, as the core problem, send the link.


----------



## met61 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> No that’s patriotic.  Learn about it.


LOL! you and patriotism is like a football bat.


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Gotta say I'm the same.  Was a huge Obama supporter in '08.  This will even likely cause me to vote for the incompetent idiot.
> 
> It will be funny if my kid is doing remote school in Utah (because it's already paid for).


There is always *Kanye Omari West*


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 16, 2020)

More school districts our way announcing remote only: Simi, Moorpark, Oxnard, Santa Barbara  Simi's weird....teachers will be teaching from the classroom (and can bring their children to work).  From the quotes being reported, it's very clear there's a timeline emerging.  Trump made his comments about schools and the unions came out against it.  Someone in state health made a decision (either based on 1 of these factors if you are cynical, or serendipity if you are not) and the governor while all this was happening signed off on it.  They started by notifying the major districts (LA, SF, SD) and have been going around calling the smaller districts.  Perhaps because the governor's unique hatred of the OC, some of those calls have yet to be made and will be made tomorrow am before the announcement tomorrow.  It also lends credence to rumors it may not be state wide....just the major counties affected by the Rona so Jefferson might have escaped.

Take it with a grain of salt....it's pretty clear someone at the state is making phone calls and this is coming from the top down but all other details are speculative.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 16, 2020)

met61 said:


> That's subjugating to government...be better.


i will gladly subjugate myself to the federal government if they provide the Abbot 10-15 minute test and sanitizing blowing fan to every school in America so all our kids can go back to school. The solution is so easy, I’m surprised this doesn’t get more support. This will protect teachers and staff and give them peace of mind. And if you have a better idea, I’m all ears.

This is an all hands on deck moment, check your ego and politics at the door!


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> More school districts our way announcing remote only: Simi, Moorpark, Oxnard, Santa Barbara  Simi's weird....teachers will be teaching from the classroom (and can bring their children to work).  From the quotes being reported, it's very clear there's a timeline emerging.  Trump made his comments about schools and the unions came out against it.  Someone in state health made a decision (either based on 1 of these factors if you are cynical, or serendipity if you are not) and the governor while all this was happening signed off on it.  They started by notifying the major districts (LA, SF, SD) and have been going around calling the smaller districts.  Perhaps because the governor's unique hatred of the OC, some of those calls have yet to be made and will be made tomorrow am before the announcement tomorrow.  It also lends credence to rumors it may not be state wide....just the major counties affected by the Rona so Jefferson might have escaped.
> 
> Take it with a grain of salt....it's pretty clear someone at the state is making phone calls and this is coming from the top down but all other details are speculative.


Watch list counties only


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> No that’s patriotic.  Learn about it.


Honest question here. On the topic of schools and school choice, are you voting for racist joe biden that said he didn't want his white kids growing up in a racial jungle in reference to integrating schools through busing?


----------



## Fact (Jul 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> More school districts our way announcing remote only: Simi, Moorpark, Oxnard, Santa Barbara  Simi's weird....teachers will be teaching from the classroom (and can bring their children to work).  From the quotes being reported, it's very clear there's a timeline emerging.  Trump made his comments about schools and the unions came out against it.  Someone in state health made a decision (either based on 1 of these factors if you are cynical, or serendipity if you are not) and the governor while all this was happening signed off on it.  They started by notifying the major districts (LA, SF, SD) and have been going around calling the smaller districts.  Perhaps because the governor's unique hatred of the OC, some of those calls have yet to be made and will be made tomorrow am before the announcement tomorrow.  It also lends credence to rumors it may not be state wide....just the major counties affected by the Rona so Jefferson might have escaped.
> 
> Take it with a grain of salt....it's pretty clear someone at the state is making phone calls and this is coming from the top down but all other details are speculative.


Adding to your theory, LA and SD Unified made a joint announcement that they were going to online school. When has schools districts ever consulted each other?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I’d be happy to look at data on the point.
> 
> So far, I’ve been offered conclusions and accusations of racism, but no data.  If deaths in police custody are abnormally high for a particular ethnic group, that deserves attention.
> 
> ...





MSK357 said:


> Honest question here. On the topic of schools and school choice, are you voting for racist joe biden that said he didn't want his white kids growing up in a racial jungle in reference to integrating schools through busing?


To be honest, I’m a black Californian so it doesn’t matter because my vote has been negated through the electoral college.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I’d be happy to look at data on the point.
> 
> So far, I’ve been offered conclusions and accusations of racism, but no data.  If deaths in police custody are abnormally high for a particular ethnic group, that deserves attention.
> 
> ...


You saying  “this is completely consistent with a racially disparate crime problem is completely consistent with an ethnocentric racist.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> To be honest, I’m a black Californian so it doesn’t matter because my vote has been negated through the electoral college.


Thats fair, as long as you don't support "you ain't black" biden


----------



## Justafan (Jul 16, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Honest question here. On the topic of schools and school choice, are you voting for racist joe biden that said he didn't want his white kids growing up in a racial jungle in reference to integrating schools through busing?


Honest answer, that’s a weak talking point.  Yes, that’s his record and that’s undeniable.  However, that was 40 years ago.  He has evolved to the point that minorities trust him.  He’s also willing to admit when he’s wrong, like he did with the China travel ban.  

So are you with me on the Abbot tests and sanitizer fans?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> You saying  “this is completely consistent with a racially disparate crime problem is completely consistent with an ethnocentric racist.


And out comes the racism accusation, just like clockwork.  But no data.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> To be honest,* I’m a black Californian* so it doesn’t matter because my vote has been negated through the electoral college.


I look at you as a Californian just so you know.  Plus, based on everything you say ((I take it all with a grain of salt)) you seem like someone who can have a great impact helping us all be their for best each other.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

dad4 said:


> And out comes the racism accusation, just like clockwork.  But no data.


No.  I’m saying you have adequate data.  Plus, I’m too lazy to search for data that I reviewed 25 years ago in Sociology class.  But, the conclusion you reached about the crime data you have is hasty, not supported by the data, and is racist because you arbitrarily conclude that “this is completely consistent with a racially disparate crime problem.”  Analysis paralysis and conclusory garbage is what your conclusion consist of.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

My wife and dd think Gavin is handsome.  I'm trying to figure all this out.  It's so confusing.  He knows a lot of people.  I am praying for Gavin to make the right decisions for me, my family and everyone else in California.  In fact, this is my state as much as it is his.  He's Nocal and I'm SoCal   Super close in age we both are.

While Newsom later reflected that he *did not have an easy childhood*, he attended kindergarten and first grade at Ecole Notre Dame Des Victoires, a French American bilingual school in San Francisco. He *eventually transferred because of severe dyslexia that still affects him.* His dyslexia has made it difficult for him to *write, spell, read and work with numbers*. Throughout his schooling, *Newsom had to rely on a combination of audiobooks, informal verbal instruction, and digests, and to this day, Newsom prefers to interpret documents and reports through audio.*

First off, Gavin seems like a cool guy trying to make it on this planet.  Looks like he and I both hated school when we were young and had handicaps.  We both love baseball.  One of my customers is trying to past a contractors test and he has what Gavin has.  I bet this online stuff is right down his ally.  Texas and Florida seem open with mask on and social distancing and California is on high alert lock down and they have a spike in cases and all that.  I will respect and follow the Governors decision today.  I'm sure we will all have some time to share how we don;t agree and that's ok.  I know many peaceful people who are not too happy who just might do some protesting after today.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> More school districts our way announcing remote only: Simi, Moorpark, Oxnard, Santa Barbara  Simi's weird....teachers will be teaching from the classroom (and can bring their children to work).  From the quotes being reported, it's very clear there's a timeline emerging.  Trump made his comments about schools and the unions came out against it.  Someone in state health made a decision (either based on 1 of these factors if you are cynical, or serendipity if you are not) and the governor while all this was happening signed off on it.  They started by notifying the major districts (LA, SF, SD) and have been going around calling the smaller districts.  Perhaps because the governor's unique hatred of the OC, some of those calls have yet to be made and will be made tomorrow am before the announcement tomorrow.  It also lends credence to rumors it may not be state wide....just the major counties affected by the Rona so Jefferson might have escaped.
> 
> Take it with a grain of salt....it's pretty clear someone at the state is making phone calls and this is coming from the top down but all other details are speculative.


You guys just need to stand up. If Cal can designate itself a sanctuary state and doesn't need to follow Fed laws, why not have counties in Cal say screw you Sacremento...we will have schools open.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

Meanwhile in the other nanny state....


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> You guys just need to stand up. If Cal can designate itself a sanctuary state and doesn't need to follow Fed laws, why not have counties in Cal say screw you Sacremento...we will have schools open.


The Federal government needs CA money.  CA is self-sustainable and doesn’t need the Feds.  CA could be it’s own country and that gives CA lots of leverage.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> No.  I’m saying you have adequate data.  P*lus, I’m too lazy to search f*or data that I reviewed 25 years ago in Sociology class.  But, the conclusion you reached about the crime data you have is hasty, not supported by the data, and is racist because you arbitrarily conclude that “this is completely consistent with a racially disparate crime problem.”  Analysis paralysis and conclusory garbage is what your conclusion consist of.


Good morning everyone. I had to take a brake from Politics as I had found myself getting angry...but decided to calm down after realizing I am not going to change the world. Decided to come visit SoCal again.

What a gem this thread is. Seems like I have a couple people here who have no idea what they are talking about. The above seems to be one. Another one @EOTL is radicalized terrorist. And the other, my favorite, @messy .

Any guesses on who can act civilized and who will resort to insults before I get started? I already highlighted a key quote above.

Oh, and btw, before I do and embarrassing as this is, I voted for Obama in 2008, did not vote in 2012, Trump in 2016, and will be voting Trump in 2020.  I consider myself middle-right. If Democrats had not gone so far left, I would also consider a GOOD Democratic candidate however that ship has sailed for the time being.

Ding Ding Ding


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> Good morning everyone. I had to take a brake from Politics as I had found myself getting angry...but decided to calm down after realizing I am not going to change the world. Decided to come visit SoCal again.
> 
> What a gem this thread is. Seems like I have a couple people here who have no idea what they are talking about. The above seems to be one. Another one @EOTL is radicalized terrorist. And the other, my favorite, @messy .
> 
> ...


Do you like me?  Are you hitting on me?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> The Federal government needs CA money.  CA is self-sustainable and doesn’t need the Feds.  CA could be it’s own country and that gives CA lots of leverage.


I think Cali could be it's own country and was rich.  Just wait Dre, the folks leaving are leaving with all their money too.  Businesses are leaving and folks like Woobie too.  Woobie has some money ((nothing wrong with that and  you have options)) and he's looking at going back to Dallas.  So, California will not be top dog imo if they pick winners and losers.  This is bad Dre and it's only going to get worse I'm afraid.


----------



## messy (Jul 17, 2020)

I’m very pleased that Biden will win...probably in a relative landslide.

My wife and kid got tested last night for travel purposes...took 15 minutes to get their results (both negative)...and he’s been playing soccer with a fairly large group every day for months.

Wear masks. Pretty simple stuff, right? Why not?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Do you like me?  Are you hitting on me?


Dre, we all love you.  I love everyone


----------



## messy (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I think Cali could be it's own country and was rich.  Just wiat Dre, the folks leaving are leaving with all their money.  Business are leaving and folks like Woobie too.  Woobie has some money ((nothing wrong with that and I you have options)) and he's looking at going back to Dallas.  So, California will not be top dog imo if they pick winners and losers.  This is bad Dre and it's only going to get worse I'm afraid.


The idiots, including the rich republicans I know, all said in ‘09 after Obama took office that CA is going to seed, they won’t raise their kids here, etc.
That all went out the window pretty quickly...this is the one of opportunity baby! Not a great place to retire though...


----------



## socalkdg (Jul 17, 2020)

dad4 said:


> And out comes the racism accusation, just like clockwork.  But no data.


This Stanford study reflects racial profiling.  Their key was stating data showed traffic stops equaled out as it got darker and the driver couldn't be identified when pulled over.








						Researchers studied nearly 100 million traffic stops and found black motorists are more likely to be pulled over
					

A study of nearly 100 million traffic stops from around the US has concluded that, on average, black drivers are 20% more likely to get pulled over than white drivers.




					www.cnn.com
				




The New Jersey study says no profiling.  Their key was that no one was being arrested, just the speed of the car was being checked and who was driving was identified by camera. 








						Profiling Myth Smashed | Manhattan Institute
					

Yet Bush Justice Dept. still bashes N.J. law enforcementAccording to a new study, black drivers on the New Jersey Turnpike are twice as likely to speed as white drivers, and are even more dominant among drivers breaking 90 miles per hour. This finding demolishes the myth of racial profiling.Yet...




					www.manhattan-institute.org
				





How do we explain the difference?   Should we even bother.   What happens if we do a study on education level and criminal behavior and find out that those with college degrees or are higher educated commit less crimes.   






						Education and Crime - Criminal Justice - IResearchNet
					

This sample research paper on education and crime features: 6300+ words (24 pages), an outline, APA format in-text citations and a bibliography with 21 sources...




					criminal-justice.iresearchnet.com
				



.

So if racism occurs in our education system, if schools in poorer areas of the county give lesser education, then the data says more crime will occur for those individuals.  

My belief, which slowly evolves as we have these discussions, is it isn't just one thing, but a accumulation of things that have lead us to where we are now.  Which leads me to our topic at hand as we start remote schooling.   From the reports I've read poor and minorities are worse off with home schooling.   This pandemic hurts them more.   Remote learning hurts them more.   We need to get kids back into school and find a way to keep teachers as safe as possible.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

messy said:


> The idiots, including the rich republicans I know, all said in ‘09 after Obama took office that CA is going to seed, they won’t raise their kids here, etc.
> That all went out the window pretty quickly...this is the one of opportunity baby! Not a great place to retire though...


3 Out of the Top 10  TOP Donors went to the Republicans. 7 Out 10 went to Democrats. I can count the rest for if need by but you will be dissapointed

Factual Web Link:








						Who are the Biggest Donors?
					

Who are the biggest donors in the 2020 election cycle? See the details.




					www.opensecrets.org


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

messy said:


> The idiots, including the rich republicans I know, all said in ‘09 after Obama took office that CA is going to seed, they won’t raise their kids here, etc.
> That all went out the window pretty quickly...this is the one of opportunity baby! Not a great place to retire though...


I remember that.  I voted for Obama in my heart.  I was not a Mavericks fan.  This time is very different Messy.  Both right and left are leaving.  Some just can;t work their lives and it's not political.  Some are leaving because they have fear.  Some are leaving because they have to have school choices and actually classes.  Also, sports is huge and no sports here unless your into water sports.  I see you support breaking rules Messy.  That's a bad example.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Do you like me?  Are you hitting on me?


Happy to say I am heterosexual.  I certainly can hang out and have a beer with just about anyone as long as Politics aren't brought up. However, when they are brought, I feel like I can debate as long as I use unbiased information.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Honest answer, that’s a weak talking point.  Yes, that’s his record and that’s undeniable.  However, that was 40 years ago.  He has evolved to the point that minorities trust him.  He’s also willing to admit when he’s wrong, like he did with the China travel ban.
> 
> So are you with me on the Abbot tests and sanitizer fans?


Many minorities think the crime bills that were written by Joe "You Aint Black" Biden were pretty racist as well.  More like 25 years ago. So at what point would you say hes not racist?  After he said poor kids were just as smart as white kids? That was last year. Right after he said only real black people are democrat? That was less than 2 months ago.   Give all the excuses you want, but his mentor was a KKK leader Robert Byrd a democrat that voted against the civil rights act and the voting rights act, never switched parties like the myth people claim, and used derogatory terms like the "N" word well into the 2000's.

but if you want to switch topics to tests and sanitizers what is your question?


----------



## Banana Hammock (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> i will gladly subjugate myself to the federal government if they provide ......


The most cowardly, un-American attitude I have seen in a while.  Your mistake waiting on the government to save you.  Canada is nice this time of year.


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 17, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Many minorities think the crime bills that were written by Joe "You Aint Black" Biden were pretty racist as well.  More like 25 years ago. So at what point would you say hes not racist?  After he said poor kids were just as smart as white kids? That was last year. Right after he said only real black people are democrat? That was less than 2 months ago.   Give all the excuses you want, but his mentor was a KKK leader Robert Byrd a democrat that voted against the civil rights act and the voting rights act, never switched parties like the myth people claim, and used derogatory terms like the "N" word well into the 2000's.
> 
> but if you want to switch topics to tests and sanitizers what is your question?


40 years ago, 25 years ago.....Nick Cannon just had to apologize 2 days later after his racists comments and all is forgotten


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

Look at this way.  If a white person is saying sorry for being a part of the racist system in the world they created and they ask for forgiveness, then their the one's who were the problem.  The very white people on your side now were the very white people holding you back.  Now these white people are telling you all the white people are just like them.  That is BS!!!!  Not all white people are created the same, let me tell you. Gavin Newsom has four generations under him.  t got $200,000,000 to invest.  These are all nice things and I'm so happy for those who have wealth.


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 17, 2020)

Joe Biden is a fossil, and he’s still going to beat dotard trump by historic margins—we’re talking ‘84 numbers. What a massive failure! 4 years of misery and shitshow, culminating in the collapse of Sports?!? Biden is going to have to clean up a big mess. Why does every republican administration end with the country in ruins?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I think Cali could be it's own country and was rich.  Just wait Dre, the folks leaving are leaving with all their money too.  Businesses are leaving and folks like Woobie too.  Woobie has some money ((nothing wrong with that and  you have options)) and he's looking at going back to Dallas.  So, California will not be top dog imo if they pick winners and losers.  This is bad Dre and it's only going to get worse I'm afraid.


Everytime one door closes another one opens.   I’m sure Woobie will like Padre Beach.  My wife did her residency at Parkland in Dallas.  So, lots of places losing people to California as well.  Plus, loosing a few folks could improve traffic.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

Here's my feelings on school closures as it is a concern on the East Coast as well.

*Who benefits the most from school closings?*
Middle-upper class suburban families, majority is white. Parents can stay home, work, and supervise they're children to make sure they log on while being comfortable. 

*Who gets hurt the most?*
Lower income inner-city and lower income suburban neighborhoods, majority black and latino. Unfortunately these parents cannot afford to stay home and have to make a choice. Those who go to work will likely have kids that don't attend online classes. There are also likely other reasons parents don't enforce attending schools.

This is systematic failure across the United States and a horrible idea. Why would we close schools when Walmart and Target are open? There has not been a major outbreak of those employees of note. The outbreaks have occurred where bars, clubs, and restaurants are open at full capacity as well protests. 

Kids don't need to wear mask. CoVid is far less dangerous than the Flu. Teachers' should wear masks and keep hand sanitizer with them at all times. FYI, the lowest infection rates are in extended suburbs, rural areas and cities less than 100,000.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Joe Biden is a fossil, and he’s still going to beat dotard trump by historic margins—we’re talking ‘84 numbers. What a massive failure! 4 years of misery and shitshow, culminating in the collapse of Sports?!? Biden is going to have to clean up a big mess. Why does every republican administration end with the country in ruins?


Soo...you will knowingly vote for a racist that passed racist policies? got it.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Everytime one door closes another one opens.   I’m sure Woobie will like Padre Beach.  My wife did her residency at Parkland in Dallas.  *So, lots of places losing people to California as well.*  Plus, loosing a few folks could improve traffic.


My friend Colin, who just quit his recruiting job said the main reason he quit is because he cant find candidates to move to California to work at Sony, Space X and many others companies in Socal.  Why?  No school and no sports for their kids.  Who the hell would move here now Dre?  Come on man.....lol!!  Goverment and State workers are set.  Less people and better highways.  You must be set for the rest of your life Dre and work in public schools.  My friend Bruno is under stress because he cant speak up.  He worked in LAUSD in Admin and left after one year.  He left because........


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> Happy to say I am heterosexual.  I certainly can hang out and have a beer with just about anyone as long as Politics aren't brought up. However, when they are brought, I feel like I can debate as long as I use unbiased information.


You seem like you struggling with something.  You can PM me if you need a safe space.
Don’t trip, lots of folk need a Mac in their life to lace their shoes up.  I got you lil’homie.


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 17, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Soo...you will knowingly vote for a racist that passed racist policies? got it.


I thought Christians believe in forgiveness. Old white people can ask for forgiveness. It’s called progress. We strive to grow and improve ourselves, dummy. Whereas trump is a proud racist and says and does racist things.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> I thought Christians believe in forgiveness. Old white people can ask for forgiveness. It’s called progress. We strive to grow and improve ourselves, dummy. Whereas trump is a proud racist and says and does racist things.


We all need forgiveness.  Someone is going to wipe the floor and win in a landslide come November or it could be close.  Regardless if it's close or a landslide, will you swear under the good book that you will obey all the laws and rules and respect the outcome, regardless of who the winner is?  I swear I will do that.  The only law we will fight if it becomes a law, is injecting that Wuhan Bat Virus Vaccine.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Soo...you will knowingly vote for a racist that passed racist policies? got it.


It is different when your own guy votes on racists policies. You should know that. Going forward his racist policies will be more nuanced. 

After all...the blm crap is blaming cops for being racists. Who generally speaking runs these police forces where these things occur? Usually Dem run cities. Cities that have been run by Dems for decades. Since they can't blame Repubs for their failures they came up with the phrase "systematic racism". That way they can avoid responsibility (hiring, policies, laws, etc.) for their decades in control AND at the same time claim to be the solution going forward. 

When you are dealing with sheeple, they will buy that and happily vote for the same Dems again. 

Rinse repeat.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> Here's my feelings on school closures as it is a concern on the East Coast as well.
> 
> *Who benefits the most from school closings?*
> Middle-upper class suburban families, majority is white. Parents can stay home, work, and supervise they're children to make sure they log on while being comfortable.
> ...


I think your analysis is superficial because poor folks were doing bad prior to covid.  The poor didn’t have access to education prior to Covid.  My neighborhood school has a 1 out of 10 greatschools rating and is under federal indictment for suspending black and Latino kids w/o cause.

The upcoming school year will be more demanding for high income overachieving families because now the families will have to be more hands on in their children’s education instead outsourcing to private schools and tutors.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 17, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> This Stanford study reflects racial profiling.  Their key was stating data showed traffic stops equaled out as it got darker and the driver couldn't be identified when pulled over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The schools problem is hard, especially for HS.  HS age kids are old enough to spread covid, so you can’t just open it all up. 

High achieving kids with a single income, two parent household may end up doing just fine with learning at home.  But they were never the difficult ones, on average.  You can give them a copy of MacBeth on Monday and receive your paper on Friday.   

The more difficult question is how to help everyone else, and how much you are willing to increase transmission as you try to do it.  And do we even know the transmission rate for a room full of 17 year olds with masks?


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> I thought Christians believe in forgiveness. Old white people can ask for forgiveness. It’s called progress. We strive to grow and improve ourselves, dummy. Whereas trump is a proud racist and says and does racist things.


do you believe joe is being contrite? hes been a politician for decades and has made racist policies and comments up until 2 months ago maybe even more recently, i dont pay attention to him.  stop apologizing for him.  voting for biden is a vote for a racist.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> My friend Colin, who just quit his recruiting job said the main reason he quit is because he cant find candidates to move to California to work at Sony, Space X and many others companies in Socal.  Why?  No school and no sports for their kids.  Who the hell would move here now Dre?  Come on man.....lol!!  Goverment and State workers are set.  Less people and better highways.  You must be set for the rest of your life Dre and work in public schools.  My friend Bruno is under stress because he cant speak up.  He worked in LAUSD in Admin and left after one year.  He left because........


No. I grew homeless and poor.  Also spent the way too much time in field while in the Marine Corps.  If I loose it all, I’ll pitch a tent and start working on getting it back.  Come on EJ.  You know God is a jealous God and worshiping material things and putting them before God should be avoided.  Tell Bruno to read the 23 Psalms if he needs encouragement.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> It is different when your own guy votes on racists policies. You should know that. Going forward his racist policies will be more nuanced.
> 
> After all...the blm crap is blaming cops for being racists. Who generally speaking runs these police forces where these things occur? Usually Dem run cities. Cities that have been run by Dems for decades. Since they can't blame Repubs for their failures they came up with the phrase "systematic racism". That way they can avoid responsibility (hiring, policies, laws, etc.) for their decades in control AND at the same time claim to be the solution going forward.
> 
> ...


Not as easy as that.  The daytime/nighttime data on traffic stops is hard to explain in a race neutral way.  If the traffic stops are purely based on driving behavior, do black drivers suddenly stop speeding at dusk?

Seems more likely that there is more to it than that.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> *No. I grew homeless and poor*.  Also spent the way too much time in field while in the Marine Corps.  If I loose it all, I’ll pitch a tent and start working on getting it back.  Come on EJ.  You know God is a jealous God and worshiping material things and putting them before God should be avoided.  Tell Bruno to read the 23 Psalms if he needs encouragement.


That sucks.  That is why Bruno and my other friends help the poor and less fortunate.  I would love for you to join up with us sometime.  My friend Jay and his wife adopted 4 kids.  I had three of them in my youth group.  Super rough story about a dad that bailed and she was way over her head.  Both were drug users.  Heroin I think.  Anyway, Jay has been a math teacher for 25 years.  Two of the kids are in college and one of them is in the Navy.  Team work helped.  The best part Dre, mom is sober and has a relationship with all of them.  Trues story!!!


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I think your analysis is superficial because poor folks were doing bad prior to covid.  *The poor didn’t have access to education prior to Covid. * My neighborhood school has a 1 out of 10 greatschools rating and is under federal indictment for suspending black and Latino kids w/o cause.
> 
> The upcoming school year will be more demanding for high income overachieving families because now the families will have to be more hands on in their children’s education instead outsourcing to private schools and tutors.


Anybody has access. It's called good parenting and not teaching kids to make an excuse.

Guess I'm on the opposite end. My DD is part of our county's magnet program for gifted kids. She is going into the 6th grade next year and has been assigned to 8th Grade AP math among other classes. No supervision was needed. We want schools to open back up because we see how other parents are raising there own kids. We want school to open back up because statistics do not show any more of a threat to kids than the Flu does. 

I grew up on the poor side. I witnessed a lot of things that others do not through out my life. Good on you for military experience. I thank you for that. My issue is based on posts here, it seems you take your personal experience takes precedence over statistics which does not make it correct.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

dad4 said:


> The schools problem is hard, especially for HS.  HS age kids are old enough to spread covid, so you can’t just open it all up.
> 
> High achieving kids with a single income, two parent household may end up doing just fine with learning at home.  But they were never the difficult ones, on average.  You can give them a copy of MacBeth on Monday and receive your paper on Friday.
> 
> The more difficult question is how to help everyone else, and how much you are willing to increase transmission as you try to do it.  And do we even know the transmission rate for a room full of 17 year olds with masks?


The high end competing for top 20 schools will have a tough time especially if this spills into winter (even if schools reopen 2nd quarter with no sports and distancing).  Closed state kids will be at a serious disadvantage: no SAts, no sports recruitment, irregular grading policies, limited activities, no fake charities (other than raising $ or making face shields).  If your route to the school is jazz band you are SOL.  If your route is doing tik toks, painting or making face shields you have a path still.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

It's time the men start being a real man.  When a man makes excuses and passes blame as a leader, them you have no true leader.  

"If Trump's government had done its job, the virus wouldn't have come here," Cuomo said Thursday on CNN. "The virus didn't come here because of anything New Yorkers did, the virus came here because the federal government missed it."

All men have messed up.  Some more than others.  Look at the Redskins?  I told all of you to get ready to change and help the woman.  Many woman are upset.  Listen to them and look at their pain.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Honest answer, that’s a weak talking point.  Yes, that’s his record and that’s undeniable.  However, that was 40 years ago.  He has evolved to the point that minorities trust him.  He’s also willing to admit when he’s wrong, like he did with the China travel ban.
> 
> So are you with me on the Abbot tests and sanitizer fans?


Wake up! We all could be with you on tests, fans, and putting every teacher and kid in a bubble...the Unions wouldn't be. It's pure Dem politics, you're ignorant to think otherwise.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> No.  I’m saying you have adequate data.  Plus, I’m too lazy to search for data that I reviewed 25 years ago in Sociology class.  But, the conclusion you reached about the crime data you have is hasty, not supported by the data, and is racist because you arbitrarily conclude that “this is completely consistent with a racially disparate crime problem.”  Analysis paralysis and conclusory garbage is what your conclusion consist of.


We should use data, but not focus on data. Change/revolution is driven by whether people feel they are being treated fairly. Focus on this.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I think your analysis is superficial because poor folks were doing bad prior to covid.  The poor didn’t have access to education prior to Covid.  My neighborhood school has a 1 out of 10 greatschools rating and is under federal indictment for suspending black and Latino kids w/o cause.
> 
> The upcoming school year will be more demanding for high income overachieving families because now the families will have to be more hands on in their children’s education instead outsourcing to private schools and tutors.


Ben Carson is arguably one of the most intelligent African Americans on Planet Earth. He came from the depths of the Detroit Ghettos in one of the worst school districts. 

#No Excuses


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> There really isn’t much to discuss.  Urban violence is a problem and is the direct result of racist policies of the past and present.  Equality for all would solve the problem.


In your world, where does individual responsibility fit in, if at all?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

Shark 'grabbed' 10-year-old boy from boat in Tasmania: report
					

The attack comes at a time of a higher-than-usual number of fatal attacks around the country.




					www.foxnews.com
				




Attention parents with kids that swim in the ocean.  Sharks are hunting our children.  One just grabbed a 10 year old from a boat.  WTH is going on?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The high end competing for top 20 schools will have a tough time especially if this spills into winter (even if schools reopen 2nd quarter with no sports and distancing).  Closed state kids will be at a serious disadvantage: no SAts, no sports recruitment, irregular grading policies, limited activities, no fake charities (other than raising $ or making face shields).  If your route to the school is jazz band you are SOL.  If your route is doing tik toks, painting or making face shields you have a path still.


High end competing for top 20 schools have the option of taking college classes online during senior year.   

It’s the next tier down that I‘d worry about.  The ones who need the credential of SAT, but can’t just shrug off the extra work of adding a JC class.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 17, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> We should use data, but not focus on data. Change/revolution is driven by whether people feel they are being treated fairly. Focus on this.


And, this isn't specifically for you, Mac. It's a general statement


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Bothsides-ism on steroids. Tiki torch wielding white supremacists are not “fine people.” Calling out racists who, by definition are divisive, is not divisive. That is the argument racists and their enablers make to deflect from who is actually divisive, and also because they only like the 1st Amendment when they say hateful things, not when they ate bearing the consequences. If you want divisiveness to stop, turn over the rock and squish the little cockroaches who think that refusing to sell a cake to somene based on their sexual orientation is inclusive, that protecting monuments erected for the sole purpose of glorifying racism is inclusive, that think blaming a black woman for getting shot in her own bed by police deserved it because she knew someone who knew someone who bought drugs.
> 
> You cannot have inclusivity so long as you enable or even tolerate bigotry. Those things are incompatible. I also have one question for you.  Why are you complaining about those who oppose bigotry, but said nothing about the guy who literally uses the N word here? You think that’s ok? You think everyone should let that pass?


Black people can't go 10 seconds without calling each other the N-word.  How incredibly stupid is it one word can be the most offensive on the planet... yet a term of endearment between those same people?  LMAO!

By the way, you still need a cake?  I'll just go buy one and you can paint a mustache and crotch bulge on the bride.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Black people can't go 10 seconds without calling each other the N-word.  How incredibly stupid is it one word can be the most offensive on the planet... yet a term of endearment between those same people?  LMAO!
> 
> By the way, you still need a cake?  I'll just go buy one and you can paint a mustache and crotch bulge on the bride.


Outlaw is a racist.  Dying breed...walls are closing in buddy.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Who said the N word?  I missed that and that word sucks.  it would be good to rid that word for good btw.  No more music with N word.  All kids love rap and the N word is used a lot. I think that would help.  Shame on anyone who uses that word.  The second word that needs to go is bastard.


No, Spicoli, you can't get rid of the N-word.  That's oppressing black rappers who can't finish a single line, of any song, without it.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> You all need to calm down Kids will be back in school by November. There’s plenty of advancements going on with covid vaccines and related medication.
> Also, one of our parents is enrolling their child in a private school that apparently has guaranteed them that kids will be in classrooms.  I don’t know how they are doing it.


November 4th, to be precise. Face it, our kids have become petty political pawns.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> What part do you disagree with?  I thought he substantiated each allegation.  Which allegation is baseless?  Folks need to stop trying to minimize and trivialize what’s going on.  I think many are uncomfortable with how normalized racism is and are uncomfortable with how @EOTL eloquently points out these aggressions.  White Silence is Violence.


THIS is violence, Dre.  When was the last time you saw a pack of white people doing THIS to a black child and pregnant black woman?  Well... besides George Floyd?









						Disturbing video shows teens beating pregnant mom, kicking toddler
					

A group of teens pummeled a pregnant Illinois mom — and even drop-kicked her helpless tot — during a caught-on-video brawl, according to footage and reports. The disturbing confrontatio…




					nypost.com


----------



## watfly (Jul 17, 2020)

Just a note about SAT's.  Many universities have eliminated the SAT as a requirement, at least for the time being (UC's until 2024), but I doubt it will come back.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 17, 2020)

watfly said:


> Just a note about SAT's.  Many universities have eliminated the SAT as a requirement, at least for the time being (UC's until 2024), but I doubt it will come back.


Replacing it, I believe









						University of California votes to phase out SAT and ACT | Inside Higher Ed
					

In five years, there will be a new test or UC will abandon use of standardized tests in admissions.




					www.insidehighered.com


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Outlaw is a racist.  Dying breed...walls are closing in buddy.


Really?  How so?  By providing factual statistics?  By pointing out that 13% commit over 60% of violent crimes?  That black people murder each other 7 times per day, 365 days per year, but only paint graffiti on the street when a white cop kills a black criminal that resists arrest? 

How convenient that must be for some.  Can we get a more woke term than "racist"?  Preferably something misspelled to make it more authentic?


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Do you like me?  Are you hitting on me?


This is what getting owned looks like.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Black people can't go 10 seconds without calling each other the N-word.  How incredibly stupid is it one word can be the most offensive on the planet... yet a term of endearment between those same people?  LMAO!
> 
> By the way, you still need a cake?  I'll just go buy one and you can paint a mustache and crotch bulge on the bride.


I'm supposed to take a guess on who the avatar was that used the N word here.  That word makes me sick btw.  It should be outlawed imo.  Retired for good and sent to the abyss.  You're on my short list but not on the top of my list.  I also want to know if that person told someone their N word and all that.  How was the word used?  In what context?  Where was the heart at when used?  My dd loves rap and I mean really loves rap.  I like a lot of songs now too and that word is played in my brain all the time.  This is all so hard to make right.


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 17, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> do you believe joe is being contrite? hes been a politician for decades and has made racist policies and comments up until 2 months ago maybe even more recently, i dont pay attention to him.  stop apologizing for him.  voting for biden is a vote for a racist.


You do a lot of clueless posting. The choice is between a proud racist and Joe Biden. Biden has overwhelming support from people of color. You can call him old, dull, droll, whatever. But your false equivalency is boring. It amazes me, the cognitive dissonance of you right wingers, your dumb brains. Is Joe woke, or is he racist? It can’t be both.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

messy said:


> I’m very pleased that Biden will win...probably in a relative landslide.
> 
> My wife and kid got tested last night for travel purposes...took 15 minutes to get their results (both negative)...and he’s been playing soccer with a fairly large group every day for months.
> 
> Wear masks. Pretty simple stuff, right? Why not?


Voting for an early on-set candidate makes me hope your apples fell far from the tree...very far.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> There really isn’t much to discuss.  Urban violence is a problem and is the direct result of racist policies of the past and present.  Equality for all would solve the problem.


No, it has nothing to do with history.  That's a crutch.  Equality is there for those that earn it.  Maybe those that don't have it need to finally take a look in the mirror, be accountable and stop blaming everyone else for their bullshit.

P.S. - There are no 'racist policies' of the present.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

watfly said:


> Just a note about SAT's.  Many universities have eliminated the SAT as a requirement, at least for the time being (UC's until 2024), but I doubt it will come back.


I know many love this test but I am so happy it's out of hear.  I want us to have math too, but mix it up a little.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> We should use data, but not focus on data. Change/revolution is driven by whether people feel they are being treated fairly. Focus on this.


That has been my focus.  I have stated my issue is a lack of equality.  If things ain’t equal, things ain’t fair.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> You do a lot of clueless posting. The choice is between a proud racist and Joe Biden. Biden has overwhelming support from people of color. You can call him old, dull, droll, whatever. But your false equivalency is boring. It amazes me, the cognitive dissonance of you right wingers, your dumb brains. Is Joe woke, or is he racist? It can’t be both.


No, Biden does not have overwhelming support of people of color... only those looking for a handout.  Those people of color who work hard and have some self pride, understand how the liberal methodology make non-thinking drones of them.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Really?  How so?  By providing factual statistics?  By pointing out that 13% commit over 60% of violent crimes?  That black people murder each other 7 times per day, 365 days per year, but only paint graffiti on the street when a white cop kills a black criminal that resists arrest?
> 
> How convenient that must be for some.  Can we get a more woke term than "racist"?  Preferably something misspelled to make it more authentic?


@Outlaw may not be politically correct however, the above statistics are truth. Nothing to be proud there but statistics don't care about race. It should be pointed out that White people do commit more sex crimes than any other race. 

FBI Crime Statistic Link Below:








						Table 43
					





					ucr.fbi.gov


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> That has been my focus.  I have stated my issue is a lack of equality.  If things ain’t equal, things ain’t fair.


Life isn't equal.  Life isn't fair.  Stop crying about everybody not having the same things.  If you can't compete, you can't compete.  Equal opportunity exists if you want it.  Many don't.  But I can see why you'd sprint from factual data... doesn't support your bullshit argument.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

watfly said:


> Just a note about SAT's.  Many universities have eliminated the SAT as a requirement, at least for the time being (UC's until 2024), but I doubt it will come back.


Yeah we can't have objective standards like the SAT. 

UC leadership thinking to themselves....Note to self: We must water down standards even more.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> That has been my focus.  I have stated my issue is a lack of equality.  If things ain’t equal, things ain’t fair.


So resisting arrest vs. not resisting arrest is fair.

Fact: Resisting arrest is what leads to police brutality and additional charges against the offender. Trust me when I say that I know this.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

dad4 said:


> High end competing for top 20 schools have the option of taking college classes online during senior year.
> 
> It’s the next tier down that I‘d worry about.  The ones who need the credential of SAT, but can’t just shrug off the extra work of adding a JC class.


Would require a rethink in the admissions committee.  When I was doing admissions work, 2 activities were usually at the bottom of the barrell: high schoolers taking college classes (it's figured that kids who are bright enough to get into a top 20 school should be able to do classwork at this point and showing you are better at taking even college tests doesn't help you distinguish yourself), and jobs (like working at McDonalds or CF).  I always thought particularly the job thing was stupid because a job shows maturity and responsibility but in evaluation forms given to interviewers these were usually listed as examples as extracurriculars "without distinction".  Maybe thing will change with the pandemic but I doubt it.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> Here's my feelings on school closures as it is a concern on the East Coast as well.
> 
> *Who benefits the most from school closings?*
> Middle-upper class suburban families, majority is white. Parents can stay home, work, and supervise they're children to make sure they log on while being comfortable.
> ...


Bingo... unfortunately, logic and intellectual honesty is Chinese to libs...if it's not emotion or race driven they're not hearing it.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> You do a lot of clueless posting. The choice is between a proud racist and Joe Biden. *Biden has overwhelming support from people of color.* You can call him old, dull, droll, whatever. But your false equivalency is boring. It amazes me, the cognitive dissonance of you right wingers, your dumb brains. Is Joe woke, or is he racist? It can’t be both.


What %?  I'm just curious.  I havent counted but every black person I know is voting for t.  I just got off the phone from a teacher who voted democrat his hole life.  No joke.  Guess who he's voting for in November?  Yup, t.  I do not hear stories from my friends saying they voted for t and now Joe.  Only, "I voted for HC and I will vote t."  I see on tv that Mit, Bolton, Bush and few others are going for Joe.  Whatever the outcome, I will respect the office.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> Ben Carson is arguably one of the most intelligent African Americans on Planet Earth. He came from the depths of the Detroit Ghettos in one of the worst school districts.
> 
> #No Excuses


Horrible example.  Gifted education sucks across the board.  All gifted kids are getting equally screwed over.
Too bad, many gifted will end up bat shit crazy strung out on drugs because we failed them.

To pretend gifted poor kids like myself and Carson didn’t receive help outside of our families is grossly inaccurate and irresponsible.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Joe Biden is a fossil, and he’s still going to beat dotard trump by historic margins—we’re talking ‘84 numbers. What a massive failure! 4 years of misery and shitshow, culminating in the collapse of Sports?!? Biden is going to have to clean up a big mess. Why does every republican administration end with the country in ruins?


Remember when Cankles Rodham was going to destroy Trump?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Horrible example.  Gifted education sucks across the board.  All gifted kids are getting equally screwed over.
> Too bad, many gifted will end up bat shit crazy strung out on drugs because we failed them.
> 
> To pretend gifted poor kids like myself and Carson didn’t receive help outside of our families is grossly inaccurate and irresponsible.


So why did outside families have to help you?  What's wrong with YOUR family?  I know the answer... want to see if you'll admit it.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> I thought Christians believe in forgiveness. Old white people can ask for forgiveness. It’s called progress. We strive to grow and improve ourselves, dummy. Whereas trump is a proud racist and says and does racist things.


So when black people were dying like flies in Chicago, and Trump tried to send it the ATF and military in both 2017 and 2020, to save ALL LIVES, and both times the black Chicago mayor said "NO", which part of that was Trump being racist and which part was a black mayor being perfectly okay with black people continuing to die?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Yeah we can't have *objective standards* like the SAT.
> 
> UC leadership thinking to themselves....Note to self: We must water down standards even more.


I see it as eliminating other people from the opportunity.  I hate that test as the test to see who is smart.  Colleges are losing so many smart people to other trades and schools.  They should offer both.  You cant offer other options if the first step in is 4.3 and 1400 and in some cases $500,000. Again, not smart and not thinking outside the box.  However, many of these Elitist schools will find a way for a basketball player or top football player to come for one year or two and experience the Elitist culture.  I say these athletes have been used so the schools can make millions.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I think your analysis is superficial because poor folks were doing bad prior to covid.  The poor didn’t have access to education prior to Covid.  My neighborhood school has a 1 out of 10 greatschools rating and is under federal indictment for suspending black and Latino kids w/o cause.
> 
> The upcoming school year will be more demanding for high income overachieving families because now the families will have to be more hands on in their children’s education instead outsourcing to private schools and tutors.


Exactly, so let's drop a stay at home order and distance learning on them and their families... Brilliant! You back this political BS, and we're supposed to take you serious about solving issues. GTFOH!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Yeah we can't have objective standards like the SAT.
> 
> UC leadership thinking to themselves....Note to self: We must water down standards even more.


All you need to do is look at the SAT performance, by race, to know why certain people want it removed.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> I see it as eliminating other people from the opportunity.  I hate that test as the test to see who is smart.  Colleges are losing so many smart people to other trades and schools.  They should offer both.  You cant offer other options if the first step in is 4.3 and 1400 and in some cases $500,000. Again, not smart and not thinking outside the box.  However, many of these Elitist schools will find a way for a basketball player or top football player to come for one year or two and experience the Elitist culture.  I say these athletes have been used so the schools can make millions.


Spicoli, if you want a trade school, you aren't taking the SAT.  You take the SAT to test intelligence.  Nobody is forced to take it.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Would require a rethink in the admissions committee.  When I was doing admissions work, 2 activities were usually at the bottom of the barrell: high schoolers taking college classes (it's figured that kids who are bright enough to get into a top 20 school should be able to do classwork at this point and showing you are better at taking even college tests doesn't help you distinguish yourself), and jobs (like working at McDonalds or CF).  I always thought particularly the job thing was stupid because a job shows maturity and responsibility but in evaluation forms given to interviewers these were usually listed as examples as extracurriculars "without distinction".  Maybe thing will change with the pandemic but I doubt it.


This is absolutely untrue in regards to my personal experience.  I have help kids from Middle College High School (MCHS) with their transfer applications for several years.  Top MCHS students don’t have any trouble getting into top universities.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> All you need to do is look at the SAT performance, by race, to know why certain people want it removed.


I want it removed as the only way in. Offer a wide range of opportunities for folks like me and Gavin


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> You do a lot of clueless posting. The choice is between a proud racist and Joe Biden. Biden has overwhelming support from people of color. You can call him old, dull, droll, whatever. But your false equivalency is boring. It amazes me, the cognitive dissonance of you right wingers, your dumb brains. Is Joe woke, or is he racist? It can’t be both.


Joe having early on-set actually makes you the idiot.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Spicoli, if you want a trade school, you aren't taking the SAT. * You take the SAT to test intelligence*.  Nobody is forced to take it.


I dont see a lot of people with the degrees being so smart these days.  In fact, I see a bunch of dummies fighting for power and that does not take brains.  Come on man, get your intelligence hat on Outlaw.  This hole system is a mess and it needs fixing.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 17, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Exactly, so let's drop a stay at home order and distance learning on them and their families... Brilliant! You back this political BS, and we're supposed to take you serious about solving issues. GTFOH!


School opening is not obvious in either direction. 

If you do open schools, the school based clusters, and resulting deaths among elderly relatives, will be in the working class neighborhoods, because that’s where the high infection rates are.   

If you don’t open schools, the lost educational opportunity will also be focused on the working class neighborhoods.

This is not an easy problem, and it does not have an easy solution.


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> What %?  I'm just curious.  I havent counted but every black person I know is voting for t.  I just got off the phone from a teacher who voted democrat his hole life.  No joke.  Guess who he's voting for in November?  Yup, t.  I do not hear stories from my friends saying they voted for t and now Joe.  Only, "I voted for HC and I will vote t."  I see on tv that Mit, Bolton, Bush and few others are going for Joe.  Whatever the outcome, I will respect the office.


Polling results in my household of Ronaldo-90% disapproval, 10% unsure. Therefore he must sell very few jerseys.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 17, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Right, in your echo chamber. Kind of like, knowing public schooling falls short and Charters work much better...but call it something else due to a lack of principle...oh, and lack of stones.





Grace T. said:


> More school districts our way announcing remote only: Simi, Moorpark, Oxnard, Santa Barbara  Simi's weird....teachers will be teaching from the classroom (and can bring their children to work).  From the quotes being reported, it's very clear there's a timeline emerging.  Trump made his comments about schools and the unions came out against it.  Someone in state health made a decision (either based on 1 of these factors if you are cynical, or serendipity if you are not) and the governor while all this was happening signed off on it.  They started by notifying the major districts (LA, SF, SD) and have been going around calling the smaller districts.  Perhaps because the governor's unique hatred of the OC, some of those calls have yet to be made and will be made tomorrow am before the announcement tomorrow.  It also lends credence to rumors it may not be state wide....just the major counties affected by the Rona so Jefferson might have escaped.
> 
> Take it with a grain of salt....it's pretty clear someone at the state is making phone calls and this is coming from the top down but all other details are speculative.


If you have time, everyone should research what has happened in Israel when schools reopened.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

dad4 said:


> School opening is not obvious in either direction.
> 
> If you do open schools, the school based clusters, and resulting deaths among elderly relatives, will be in the working class neighborhoods, because that’s where the high infection rates are.
> 
> ...


It's easy.  healthy teachers teach the healthy kids in person.  Down size and innovate and think the heck outside of the box.  Solve the problem.  keep in mine, mistakes will be made along the way when folks try to solve a big problem they never faced before.


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 17, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Joe having early on-set actually makes you the idiot.


My kid the other day says “Trump has a fourth grade vocabulary.” We need to be reminded, lest we forget.


----------



## whatithink (Jul 17, 2020)

So the choice for president is for a racist or a racist apparently. Two old white guys who having been walking the paths of power or wealth or both for decades. Just as well systemic racism is a nothing thing in either the wealth system or the political system. Two shit candidates IMO demonstrating everything that is wrong in our politics.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Life isn't equal.  Life isn't fair.  Stop crying about everybody not having the same things.  If you can't compete, you can't compete.  Equal opportunity exists if you want it.  Many don't.  But I can see why you'd sprint from factual data... doesn't support your bullshit argument.


We need to engage, though. The more we divide ourselves from "those from sh!+hole countries", "a basketful of deplorables", people who "support the notion that, you know, all Mexicans are rapists and all Muslims are bad", "racists", "bigots", "POS criminals", etc. the less opportunity there is for real engagement. After the revolution, it doesn't do much good to point out that the study used to justify it wasn't valid.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

FYI, I was a HUGE Carson supporter in 2016. Please take time to listen to this speech from 2012. Everything to do with today and how to raise kids. Entertaining as well. One of the most inspiring speech's in our lifetime that every parent should listen to whether rich or poor.


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 17, 2020)

whatithink said:


> So the choice for president is for a racist or a racist apparently. Two old white guys who having been walking the paths of power or wealth or both for decades. Just as well systemic racism is a nothing thing in either the wealth system or the political system. Two shit candidates IMO demonstrating everything that is wrong in our politics.


That’s what you think


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> My kid the other day says “Trump has a fourth grade vocabulary.” We need to be reminded, lest we forget.


So your kid can regurgitate Stephen Colbert.  Congratulations... 

Obama was a great speaker... stuck to the teleprompter, and speeches written for him, like a champ.  He just didn't accomplish anything.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> We need to engage, though. The more we divide ourselves from "those from sh!+hole countries", "a basketful of deplorables", people who "support the notion that, you know, all Mexicans are rapists and all Muslims are bad", "racists", "bigots", "POS criminals", etc. the less opportunity there is for real engagement. After the revolution, it doesn't do much good to point out that the study used to justify it wasn't valid.


I agree... we do need to engage.  And we can begin to do that when all parties are willing to be honest and look in the mirror.  But let's also address the fact that political correctness helps nobody.

I'll give you an example.  Everybody wants bad cops out.  Even other cops.  So how do we do that?  Make heroes out of violent, career criminals that resisted arrest and gave cops an excuse?   To blame ALL cops and riot, demand defunding and send fucking social workers to 911 calls?

Or do we comply and let bad cops weed themselves out with their actions?  You don't defund hospitals when doctors are caught violating small children.  You don't admonish the medical profession.  You don't burn down Johns Hopkins.  You raise awareness, be brutally honest and weed them out.


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> FYI, I was a HUGE Carson supporter in 2016. Please take time to listen to this speech from 2012. Everything to do with today and how to raise kids. Entertaining as well. One of the most inspiring speech's in our lifetime that every parent should listen to whether rich or poor.


Warning, may cause daytime drowsiness.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Warning, may cause daytime drowsiness.


Correct. If you lack intelligence and critical thinking it could possible put you to sleep.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Warning, may cause daytime drowsiness.


Yeah... we get it.  Intelligent, successful black people that don't push the "we be oppressed" narrative are Uncle Toms.

Hence the reason nobody takes your bullshit seriously.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

Can't wait to post my political "brackets" when I have the time and where posters here fall.


----------



## whatithink (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> That’s what you think


apparently


----------



## watfly (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> My kid the other day says “Trump has a fourth grade vocabulary.” We need to be reminded, lest we forget.


That's unfair, it's probably a 7th grade vocabulary.  I would imagine that 90% of the population just wishes he would shut the f'up, myself included.

I think we all long for a president that is both well spoken and has policies that raises the tide for everyone.  It has been a couple decades since we've had both, and back to Reagan when we had someone that was truly adept at both.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Warning, may cause daytime drowsiness.


He's such a calm and mellow guy for someone who was angry as a kid.  I will never lose that side of me


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Warning, may cause daytime drowsiness.


Tell me, P2P, since I already know Dre will run from this like he always does.  Do you think these kids will have the same opportunities?  You think the boy that ninja kicks the toddler will be held down and forced to take the SAT?  Let me give you a tip... because you'll be shocked... his mama already said it was an accident and he'd never do something like this.  So tell me... which public school is letting these kids down?









						Disturbing video shows teens beating pregnant mom, kicking toddler
					

A group of teens pummeled a pregnant Illinois mom — and even drop-kicked her helpless tot — during a caught-on-video brawl, according to footage and reports. The disturbing confrontatio…




					nypost.com


----------



## EOTL (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Yeah... we get it.  Intelligent, successful black people that don't push the "we be oppressed" narrative are Uncle Toms.
> 
> Hence the reason nobody takes your bullshit seriously.


Characterizing black people as not being able to conjugate verbs is racist. Hence the reason nobody takes your bullshit seriously.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> If you have time, everyone should research what has happened in Israel when schools reopened.



Yup, Israel is the outlier and a real head scratcher since it looks like it's outbreak originated in the high school and middle schools but it's also not the most disturbing news from around the world right now (though even taking it into account it says nothing about the elementary schools).

3 other countries in addition to Israel have a very high acceleration rate.  Australia: which raises a real prospect for us of a winter bump and this despite that Australia has been widely praised for its strategy of shutting down interprovince transport.  Japan: which has been widely praised for it's universal mask usage and which (unlike us) has some really good masks (not bandanas and t shirts) which seems to show universal mask usage while it may help is not sufficient to contain outbreaks.   And most disturbing: Spain particularly in the Barcelona area, which has universal mask usage (again not bandanas or t shirts which are illegal there), is still not fully open, and which had one of the strictest lockdowns in the world (providing once and for all lockdowns don't work....as soon as you lift them it will accelerate).

Spain is critically important in the coming days.  If they start to look like our sunbelt, it blows a hole in the theory some of us have been pushing that the virus eventually dies out because it died out in Sweden.  If this is just a bump taking in place in areas that didn't have a full burn (a mini US) then o.k. there's still some hope in our near future.  But if even a portion of Spain goes out of control again it means the burn out theory probably holds no water.

Which leaves only the Vitamin D/weather theory standing.  That theory says the reason why LA wasn't hit very hard at the same time as NY and Spain and Italy was because when the initial outbreak happened we had nice weather and were out and about and getting our sun and Vitamin D and not indoors.  The reason why Mexico, the tropics, Japan, our South, SoCal and Spain are getting hard hit is because it's very hot and people aren't hanging out in the sun.  Norway and Denmark similarly have never had a mask requirement and in removing the lockdowns have not yet had a resurgence and Sweden died out on its own....is it because right now they have an abundence of sunlight and temperatures are nice outside?....same with Canada.  The counterfactual to this theory is New York City, of course (or maybe its a combination of weather and burn out).

But where does that leave us?  It means for Socal under either theory the worst should be over by the end of September.  If the weather theory holds true we might escape the worst of a second wave but the northern US will have hell to pay as will the nordic countries and northern Europe.  It means we are at a point where all containment measures are an utter failure, and we have to decide between perpetual lockdown and re lockdowns or just going forward and taking the risk (knowing the overwhelming cost).

What a horrible, awful no good week in a horrible, awful no good year.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Characterizing black people as not being able to conjugate verbs is racist. Hence the reason nobody takes your bullshit seriously.


Using the N-word every 10 seconds, and in every rap song, and saying it's oppressive if anyone else uses it, is moronic.  Hence why a crybaby pussy like yourself is a clown.

You still want that wedding cake, rainbow warrior?


----------



## EOTL (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Using the N-word every 10 seconds, and in every rap song, and saying it's oppressive if anyone else uses it, is moronic.  Hence why a crybaby pussy like yourself is a clown.
> 
> You still want that wedding cake, rainbow warrior?


Also racist when you use the N word.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Also racist when you use the N word.


Whatever gets you out of having to watch the video and be honest about it.

But we agree on this... using the N-word makes you racist.  I've been saying black people can be as racist as everyone else.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> What a horrible, awful no good week in a horrible, awful no good year.


Happy Days are coming for all Americans everyday.  You need to put on a happy face and obey your leaders


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Also racist when you use the N word.


I used to absolutely love late 80s and 90s hip hop. The stuff now days I don’t care for. 

Much of that hip hop from back then I no longer enjoy though. Dre (Chronic) and Snoop (Gin and Juice) is now too vulgar for me. I never liked NWA.

I still listen to Tribe Called Quest and OutKast though along with some others. I do not listen to Eminem.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> "those from sh!+hole countries"


This one I always found entertaining. The people complaining about that name would not EVER go vacation in those countries. Why? Because the fact is in this world there are.....s..hole countries. They wouldn't dream of going to them. But when someone points out what they actually are? Why that is terrible. 

I have been to over 40 countries...with many more to go. And for biz I send people to various countries, and some shall we say are very problematic, which is saying it gently.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> So why did outside families have to help you?  What's wrong with YOUR family?  I know the answer... want to see if you'll admit it.


Nothing is wrong with my family that isn’t wrong with any other family.  I’m the first person in my family that could go to school full time and not have to follow crops as a migrant worker.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> (providing once and for all lockdowns don't work....as soon as you lift them it will accelerate).


This is the part that seems rather self evident. You stop activity and cases mellow. Open up they rise. At that point the politicians want to shut down again. And then the cycle repeats itself again. 

At some point we have to realize that will be the cycle. Without any vaccine on the horizon, how long will we live like this?


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

In other news, the Washington Redskins have another name to choose from!

Washington P-ssy Grabbers.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Yeah we can't have objective standards like the SAT.
> 
> UC leadership thinking to themselves....Note to self: We must water down standards even more.


First that I’ve heard of the UC system having lax admission standards!  I’m certain your state school system isn’t as selective as the UC system.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> So resisting arrest vs. not resisting arrest is fair.
> 
> Fact: Resisting arrest is what leads to police brutality and additional charges against the offender. Trust me when I say that I know this.


The penalty for resisting is not death.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> First that I’ve heard of the UC system having lax admission standards!  I’m certain your state school system isn’t as selective as the UC system.


Make no mistake about it. The AZ universities are not as selective as the UC system.

I do like to joke and say that ASU is the Harvard of the West though  I got that quote from a professor in a class I took at ASU. He mentioned that as he was passing out the results of his latest exam. Needless to say many in the class did not do well.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> This is the part that seems rather self evident. You stop activity and cases mellow. Open up they rise. At that point the politicians want to shut down again. And then the cycle repeats itself again.


You would think but it's surprising still how many people are holding onto "we must do something".  I'm still getting a lot of if only we weren't so selfish and just wore our masks and had some competent leadership this thing would go away in 30 days.  Our local school board president suggested to me that we shut down for 30 days for everything and people stopped going out to play basketball and we just all stocked up on supplies, we could eliminate the virus.  I did my schtick: would you shut down the free lunch program you offered hard hit kids during the lockdowns?  Would you shut the southern border to even American citizens?  You prepared to suppress protests (whether left or right) with force?  Her response back is if we'd only unite together we could overcome anything.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Nothing is wrong with my family that isn’t wrong with any other family.  I’m the first person in my family that could go to school full time and not have to follow crops as a migrant worker.


So your family chose to have you and then leave you with family/friends so you didn't have to change schools a lot like millions of military personnel?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Make no mistake about it. The AZ universities are not as selective as the UC system.
> 
> I do like to joke and say that ASU is the Harvard of the West though  I got that quote from a professor in a class I took at ASU. He mentioned that as he was passing out the results of his latest exam. Needless to say many in the class did not do well.


My best friend flunked out of ASU.  He would have never been accepted to any UC.  Hell, Colorado kicked him out because they thought I took his SAT’s for him.  ASU didn’t care!


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> The penalty for resisting is not death.


Nobody should ever be killed for resisting arrest. We agree.

But if no one resisted, there wouldn’t be any deaths.

Your point is an excuse. Yes more Blacks are killed per capita than Whites who resist BUT the unfortunate FACT is that Blacks commit more crimes than any other race. This isn’t racist, it’s a fact. There is no debating it. Sorry.

There is a saying about resisting arrest:

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Stupid games do not care about race.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> Nobody should ever be killed for resisting arrest. We agree.
> 
> But if no one resisted, there wouldn’t be any deaths.
> 
> ...


You really are from Mars.


----------



## Fact (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Yup, Israel is the outlier and a real head scratcher since it looks like it's outbreak originated in the high school and middle schools but it's also not the most disturbing news from around the world right now (though even taking it into account it says nothing about the elementary schools).
> 
> 3 other countries in addition to Israel have a very high acceleration rate.  Australia: which raises a real prospect for us of a winter bump and this despite that Australia has been widely praised for its strategy of shutting down interprovince transport.  Japan: which has been widely praised for it's universal mask usage and which (unlike us) has some really good masks (not bandanas and t shirts) which seems to show universal mask usage while it may help is not sufficient to contain outbreaks.   And most disturbing: Spain particularly in the Barcelona area, which has universal mask usage (again not bandanas or t shirts which are illegal there), is still not fully open, and which had one of the strictest lockdowns in the world (providing once and for all lockdowns don't work....as soon as you lift them it will accelerate).
> 
> ...


Interesting that you don’t hear about these surges in other countries on the mainstream news. I wonder why


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> In other news, the Washington Redskins have another name to choose from!
> 
> Washington P-ssy Grabbers.


I like it but we need to avoid gendered language these days.  Strickly non-binary.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> First that I’ve heard of the UC system having lax admission standards!  I’m certain your state school system isn’t as selective as the UC system.


Only lax admissions for "minorities".  Kind of like the NFL's Rooney Rule.  We need to interview more black coaches because only 65% of the players are black.  Unacceptable, Dre.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> The penalty for resisting is not death.


Depends on the case.  Floyd didn't die because of the knee.  The autopsy showed that.  

But lots of people resist arrest and don't die.  I've challenged you to provide names of innocent people killed by police and you couldn't do it.


----------



## chiefs (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Life isn't equal.  Life isn't fair.  Stop crying about everybody not having the same things.  If you can't compete, you can't compete.  Equal opportunity exists if you want it.  Many don't.  But I can see why you'd sprint from factual data... doesn't support your bullshit argument.


It's all about competing in America, if you want to actually be a productive citizen. America is all about competition... Internal assessment of one self should rise above any blaming of a false narrative for systematic racism. A term that most don't believe even exists. If daddy can't stay home and tuck in his family read a book or just plain ole talk with little johnny/karen their kids are already falling behind the curve.  That's nobodies fault but their own.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> You really are from Mars.


Maybe so... but even on Mars they can read the factual statistics.  Why do you constantly fight the truth, Dre?


----------



## whatithink (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> You would think but it's surprising still how many people are holding onto "we must do something".  I'm still getting a lot of if only we weren't so selfish and just wore our masks and had some competent leadership this thing would go away in 30 days.  Our local school board president suggested to me that we shut down for 30 days for everything and people stopped going out to play basketball and we just all stocked up on supplies, we could eliminate the virus.  I did my schtick: would you shut down the free lunch program you offered hard hit kids during the lockdowns?  Would you shut the southern border to even American citizens?  You prepared to suppress protests (whether left or right) with force?  Her response back is if we'd only unite together we could overcome anything.


Agree somewhat. 

The shutting down was always about flattening the curve so that hospitals didn't get over whelmed. I don't hear that expression so much anymore. It was always known that it wouldn't go away. The problem, to me, is that this message didn't resonate and hasn't resonated. Everyone obviously wants it to go away, but that's just not happening. The plus side is that treatments seem to be getting better. Progress is being made on a vaccine and/or treatment plans.

The current problem seems to be that a huge part of the population have taken on board the message that if you are old and/or have underlying conditions then it can kill you. If you are neither of those, then you might get sick but should be fine ... so reverted to pre-COVID19 behavior once the shutdown ended. *That *precipitated spikes all over the place. A reopening strategy which allows business to reopen, schools to open and is 100% supported by masks, hand washing, social distancing, etc. would go a long way to keeping the curve flat. Its not going away, so everyone should be looking to 100% support keeping that curve flat. If we can achieve that, then we can get moving again, albeit with a new normal.

I don't fear a spike come winter TBH, that'll happen just as it does every year with the flu. I fear a mutation that moves from those most vulnerable to die now, to a wider set.


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 17, 2020)

looks like defunding police is starting to backfire.....


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

Newsom says schools can open only if off the watch list for 14 days.  If on watch list must begin with remote learning.  Hasn't distinguished between private schools and colleges either.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> My best friend flunked out of ASU.  He would have never been accepted to any UC.  Hell, Colorado kicked him out because they thought I took his SAT’s for him.  ASU didn’t care!
> View attachment 8172


ASU didn’t care can be read two ways.  They didn’t care if he cheated on the SAT, and they didn’t care if he flunked out.

Hope he found a school or an employer who did care.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> My best friend flunked out of ASU.  He would have never been accepted to any UC.  Hell, Colorado kicked him out because they thought I took his SAT’s for him.  ASU didn’t care!
> View attachment 8172


You think THIS idiot really got a 1200 on his SATs?  Oh... another black athlete with no father, by the way.  I'm seeing a pattern, Dre.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

chiefs said:


> It's all about competing in America, if you want to actually be a productive citizen. America is all about competition... Internal assessment of one self should rise above any blaming of a false narrative for systematic racism. A term that most don't believe even exists. If daddy can't stay home and tuck in his family read a book or just plain ole talk with little johnny/karen their kids are already falling behind the curve.  That's nobodies fault but their own.


You are heartless.  Everyday innocent kids are born into dysfunctional environments.  Are you saying to hell with those kids because their parents are inept?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> looks like defunding police is starting to backfire.....View attachment 8173


Good for him.  Bad for NYC cops.


----------



## Dof3 (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> You do a lot of clueless posting. The choice is between a proud racist and Joe Biden. Biden has overwhelming support from people of color. You can call him old, dull, droll, whatever. But your false equivalency is boring. It amazes me, the cognitive dissonance of you right wingers, your dumb brains. Is Joe woke, or is he racist? It can’t be both.


The National Museum of African American History and Culture begs to differ.  It is both woke and incredibly racist - ironically toward white people and people of color at the same time.  Or did you not see the chart?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> You are heartless.  Everyday innocent kids are born into dysfunctional environments.  Are you saying to hell with those kids because their parents are inept?


Let's be honest... you only care about black kids.  What we're saying is black children, depending on who you listen to, are being born into single parent households more than 90% of the time.  THAT is the problem, not the system.  If black men can't stick around to be fathers, maybe they could spring $ .50 for a condom now and then?  And now the morons at BLM want to push back on traditional family households despite every statistic showing that produces more crime and more deaths.

If you support black kids, you'll support cops, two parent households and accountability.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

dad4 said:


> ASU didn’t care can be read two ways.  They didn’t care if he cheated on the SAT, and they didn’t care if he flunked out.
> 
> Hope he found a school or an employer who did care.


He went to the Patriots in the supplemental draft.  But, he’s always been an underachiever and got himself in trouble with the NFL after several warnings.  He had too much pride to take the punishment of 1 year in NFL Europe and that ended his career.

It’s weird because his older brother received his degree from Cal and got a few super bowl rings with the Pats. But he was also in gifted classes his entire life. My friend was a very good athlete at a very young age. Everyone kissed his ass and never held him accountable and it ruined him.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Let's be honest... you only care about black kids.  What we're saying is black children, depending on who you listen to, are being born into single parent households more than 90% of the time.  THAT is the problem, not the system.  If black men can't stick around to be fathers, maybe they could spring $ .50 for a condom now and then?  And now the morons at BLM want to push back on traditional family households despite every statistic showing that produces more crime and more deaths.
> 
> If you support black kids, you'll support cops, two parent households and accountability.


Agree. The first part of fixing a problem is admitting there is a problem rather than blame the past.

I just don’t know if anyone will actually admit to the problem(s). It’s just much easier to make excuses and point the finger at someone else.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

The Governor was explaining social distancing with his kids and his example was about his caregiver.  How many besides Messy and Woobie have a caregiver? I love being my son and dd caregiver and I would never ever give that away to a caregiver or even pay for a caregiver.  Hey, to each his own  I have a hard time with his smile and talking about this and that and I would 100% have debated him if we were teammates in high school. Seems like a good guy to me. I know this must be really hard on his caregiver. I hope she gets a raise


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Newsom says schools can open only if off the watch list for 14 days.  If on watch list must begin with remote learning.  Hasn't distinguished between private schools and colleges either.


If I'm understanding this correctly, he also said about schools making their own decisions, and not even on a district level?


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

Given where we are on the curve and given the time table of 14 days earliest that schools will open up in SoCal is October.  Even if they reopen pods can be quarantined and if 5% outbreak they'll shut down the school again.  Even with schools reopen, they will be constantly disrupted.  NorCal escaped the worst but the OC definitely is included.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> If I'm understanding this correctly, he also said about schools making their own decisions, and not even on a district level?


County trumps anything local......


----------



## watfly (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Newsom says schools can open only if off the watch list for 14 days.  If on watch list must begin with remote learning.  Hasn't distinguished between private schools and colleges either.


Well maybe not as bad as we thought but opens up a whole new can of worms.  Makes it difficult for Districts that have chosen at least some form physical attendance to create a clear plan.  Then what happens if your County comes off the watchlist, but later is back on?  Is school back to online?  Let's just jerk the kids around!  Districts that had the best intentions of resuming in-person learning may just say f' it and just give online as the only option.  Maybe that's Newsom's intent, make it so difficult so that Districts "choose" distance learning without him technically mandating it.  Let's him off the hook so to speak.


----------



## chiefs (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> You are heartless.  Everyday innocent kids are born into dysfunctional environments.  Are you saying to hell with those kids because their parents are inept?


I been called worse, but Mac, America is an incredible difficult place to live and compete in work. Focus on family, get a HS degree at a minimum, don't have a kid early in years, and work hard.  My grandfather came over fresh off the boat, had no pennies, didn't speak the language, had a knapsack of a couple shirts and pants,  but laid a foundation for his next generation with his hard work, persistence and determination. Skills that can't be given to anyone but are only earned.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

watfly said:


> Well maybe not as bad as we thought but *opens up a whole new can of worms.*  Makes it difficult for Districts that have chosen at least some form physical attendance to create a clear plan.  Then what happens if your County comes off the watchlist, but later is back on?  Is school back to online?  Let's just jerk the kids around!  Districts that had the best intentions of resuming in-person learning may just say f' it and just give online as the only option.  Maybe that's Newsom's intent, make it so difficult so that Districts "choose" distance learning without him technically mandating it.  Let's him off the hook so to speak.


10,000 Copa's tracing your every move is my worse nightmare. Their all trained foot soldiers.  I saw mask promotion right before the presser.  I told you all we would have logos maid.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> If I'm understanding this correctly, he also said about schools making their own decisions, and not even on a district level?


Yeah, but that's only once the county is off the watch list and there are certain mandatory shutdowns and quarantines.  Schools still answerable to county health dept and local school boards though.

Wow he just royally fed SoCal.  14 days off that watch list is a very high standard.  Impossible when you are on the upper end of the curve slope and then you have to clear out a lot of hospitalizations which could last up to 30 days, considering death is a lagging indicator.


----------



## carla hinkle (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> This is the part that seems rather self evident. You stop activity and cases mellow. Open up they rise. At that point the politicians want to shut down again. And then the cycle repeats itself again.
> 
> At some point we have to realize that will be the cycle. Without any vaccine on the horizon, how long will we live like this?


Have you looked at the rest of the world? The United States is blowing the world away for new COVID cases. It's not even close. And it didn't have to be that way. Saying "it's inevitable" is just factually incorrect.

I have a number of friends and family in Italy. Italy has been open for almost two months and yesterday it had 230 new cases and 11 deaths. In a country of 60 million people. They just locked down hard and long enough -- about 8-10 weeks of a hard lockdown -- to get the new cases very low, like under 2% positive. With numbers that low, they can keep on top of the flare ups. Plus Italy (along with Spain) has something like 80% of people wearing masks now. Have you seen pictures of Italy now? They have absolutely very close to normal life and almost no COVID.

The US didn't lock down hard enough or long enough (except maybe NY/NJ/CT). California was actually pretty close...if we had kept a stricter lockdown through May it might have been enough to get our cases low enough so we could keep on top of them. It kills me how close we were.

People need to be honest about why we are where we are. We lacked the will at every level to really lockdown for the period of time that it would take to make a difference. Instead we got the worst of all worlds. We sort of locked down for 6-8 weeks. Canceled school, lots of people out of work, small businesses shut down. And then we re-opened too fast and too early, people decided to go see their friends, go to bars and restaurants, socialize like normal times, so we got an even worse resurgence. Now all the work we did staying home in the spring, sacrifices that were made, is completely flushed down the toilet.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Let's be honest... you only care about black kids.  What we're saying is black children, depending on who you listen to, are being born into single parent households more than 90% of the time.  THAT is the problem, not the system.  If black men can't stick around to be fathers, maybe they could spring $ .50 for a condom now and then?  And now the morons at BLM want to push back on traditional family households despite every statistic showing that produces more crime and more deaths.
> 
> If you support black kids, you'll support cops, two parent households and accountability.


I care about all kids.  I’m proud of all of my heritage both white and black.  However if you look at the totality of the circumstances white men have historically been the most violent and caused the most destruction.  White men colonized the world.
Your theory doesn’t hold true when you look at the world.  
Also funny thing is my white family is waaay more sensitive to inequities and aggressions than I am.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> The Governor was explaining social distancing with his kids and his example was about his caregiver.  How many besides Messy and Woobie have a caregiver? I love being my son and dd caregiver and I would never ever give that away to a caregiver or even pay for a caregiver.  Hey, to each his own  I have a hard time with his smile and talking about this and that and I would 100% have debated him if we were teammates in high school. Seems like a good guy to me. I know this must be really hard on his caregiver. I hope she gets a raise


Too bad Gavin couldn't practice social distancing by not screwing his best friend's wife.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

He's the truth.  A pitcher is worth millions if he can pitch left handed and not get hurt.  If this country was run by the KKK and the White Supreme Dudes, you would not see a picture like this of folks becoming citizens of the United States of America.  That is mho


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I care about all kids.  I’m proud of all of my heritage both white and black.  However if you look at the totality of the circumstances white men have historically been the most violent and caused the most destruction.  White men colonized the world.
> Your theory doesn’t hold true when you look at the world.
> Also funny thing is my white family is waaay more sensitive to inequities and aggressions than I am.


You aren't a lawyer... you're a history teacher.  You and every other black person that blames history for the content of character, or lack thereof, we see today.  You weren't prevented from anything via the 'system' you talk about.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

He's just clarified it applies to both private and public so see yah guys....just signed our month to month agreement for Utah.

He says hasn't announced college yet because new UC chair is coming on but will announce college guidelines shortly and will be similar.


----------



## SoccerFan (Jul 17, 2020)

California schools in counties on COVID-19 watchlist must stay closed, Newsom says
					

Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Friday that public and private schools in California counties on the state’s coronavirus watchlist won't be allowed to hold in-class instruction and have to meet strict criteria in order to reopen.




					www.kcra.com


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

chiefs said:


> I been called worse, but Mac, America is an incredible difficult place to live and compete in work. Focus on family, get a HS degree at a minimum, don't have a kid early in years, and work hard.  My grandfather came over fresh off the boat, had no pennies, didn't speak the language, had a knapsack of a couple shirts and pants,  but laid a foundation for his next generation with his hard work, persistence and determination. Skills that can't be given to anyone but are only earned.


This is the lie that is often perpetuated by many immigrant families.  The reality is that many immigrants came to the USA with education, money, and cultural capital.  Most of the poor folks in Michigan for example can’t afford a trip to Europe, Africa, Panama, China etc.

So how did your grandfather get to the USA w/o money, education, and cultural capital?


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

carla hinkle said:


> Have you looked at the rest of the world? The United States is blowing the world away for new COVID cases. It's not even close. And it didn't have to be that way. Saying "it's inevitable" is just factually incorrect.
> 
> I have a number of friends and family in Italy. Italy has been open for almost two months and yesterday it had 230 new cases and 11 deaths. In a country of 60 million people. They just locked down hard and long enough -- about 8-10 weeks of a hard lockdown -- to get the new cases very low, like under 2% positive. With numbers that low, they can keep on top of the flare ups. Plus Italy (along with Spain) has something like 80% of people wearing masks now. Have you seen pictures of Italy now? They have absolutely very close to normal life and almost no COVID.
> 
> ...


This has pretty much discredited at this point.  Spain is accelerating again despite rigorous lockdowns and mask mandates.  Sweden is disappearing despite being attacked as lax.  At this point it's pretty clear that the Rona doesn't care about any government policy.  You can hold onto your illusion that we can actually do something and be comfortable in the matrix, or you can take the red pill and join some of us in the ugly reality.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> He's the truth.  A pitcher is worth millions if he can pitch left handed and not get hurt.  If this country was run by the KKK and the White Supreme Dudes, you would not see a picture like this of folks becoming citizens of the United States of America.  That is mho
> 
> View attachment 8177


This isn't what liberals want.  They don't want people following the rules.  They don't want people like this having a skill so they can earn for themselves and think for themselves.  THESE people won't vote for liberals because they know nothing should be handed to them.  THESE people know they'll be paid a living wage because they're now American citizens and they'll earn it. 

It's the illegal that comes here in the dead of night, working for $2 an hour and worrying about deportation everyday.  THOSE are the immigrants willing to give liberals their votes.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> This has pretty much discredited at this point.  Spain is accelerating again despite rigorous lockdowns and mask mandates.  Sweden is disappearing despite being attacked as lax.  At this point it's pretty clear that the Rona doesn't care about any government policy.  You can hold onto your illusion that we can actually do something and be comfortable in the matrix, or you can take the red pill and join some of us in the ugly reality.


Utah is blowing up.


----------



## watfly (Jul 17, 2020)

carla hinkle said:


> The US didn't lock down hard enough or long enough (except maybe NY/NJ/CT).


WTF, the death rates from many of the counties in these states dwarf any other county in the US.  The top ten per capita death rates (counties >500,000 population) in the US are all NY and NJ counties and 15 of the top 16 are from NY, NJ or CT.   The average per capita death rate for the top ten counties (>500,000) is 7 times the highest county (LA) in California.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> This isn't what liberals want.  They don't want people following the rules.  They don't want people like this having a skill so they can earn for themselves and think for themselves.  THESE people won't vote for liberals because they know nothing should be handed to them.  THESE people know they'll be paid a living wage because they're now American citizens and they'll earn it.
> 
> I*t's the illegal that comes here in the dead of night, working for $2 an hour* and worrying about deportation everyday.  THOSE are the immigrants willing to give liberals their votes.


Both sides are guilty.  $2 an hour?  I knew a guy who is no longer in the trade biz that was taking advantage of immigrants ((illegal and legal)) but paying them under the table.  It wasnt no $2 an hour, that's for sure.  Some get paid really well and they dont have to pay taxes.  We need to fix this on both sides and keep the bad people out.  These are not bad people.  Their being exploited by everyone.


----------



## gotothebushes (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> This is the lie that is often perpetuated by many immigrant families.  The reality is that many immigrants came to the USA with education, money, and cultural capital.  Most of the poor folks in Michigan for example can’t afford a trip to Europe, Africa, Panama, China etc.
> 
> So how did your grandfather get to the USA w/o money, education, and cultural capital?


I have my popcorn waiting for Chiefs reply!!


----------



## chiefs (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> This is the lie that is often perpetuated by many immigrant families.  The reality is that many immigrants came to the USA with education, money, and cultural capital.  Most of the poor folks in Michigan for example can’t afford a trip to Europe, Africa, Panama, China etc.
> 
> So how did your grandfather get to the USA w/o money, education, and cultural capital?


Your in denial...he was a poor folk from the midwest as well....


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> You aren't a lawyer... you're a history teacher.  You and every other black person that blames history for the content of character, or lack thereof, we see today.  You weren't prevented from anything via the 'system' you talk about.


Outlaw, the system worked for me.  I received an incredible amount of support 


Grace T. said:


> He's just clarified it applies to both private and public so see yah guys....just signed our month to month agreement for Utah.
> 
> He says hasn't announced college yet because new UC chair is coming on but will announce college guidelines shortly and will be similar.


Maybe your kids can go to BYU.  Just let them know that your pal MacDre said not to drink a Coke during their campus visit to BYU.  I was told caffeine is a drug.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

chiefs said:


> Your in denial...he was a poor folk from the midwest as well....


Really?  Please answer the question.  How did your grandpa get here without education, money, and cultural capital?


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 17, 2020)

Should we safely assume now that if schools going online (including colleges) we will not see any youth sports in 2020?


----------



## chiefs (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Really?  Please answer the question.  How did your grandpa get here without education, money, and cultural capital?


He had no money, became a brick layer, no support from anyone....sorry it doesn't fit your narrative but he did come over in a boat with nothing.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Should we safely assume now that if schools going online (including colleges) we will not see any youth sports in 2020?


NorCal maybe.  I can't see how he tells parents sports are open here but your kid can't go to school  Question for NorCal is if they are through their curve or will accelerate.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)




----------



## Footy30 (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> NorCal maybe.  I can't see how he tells parents sports are open here but your kid can't go to school  Question for NorCal is if they are through their curve or will accelerate.


I know I am going to be hugely unpopular after saying this but I think sports is done and done. At least for this year at least... maybe at the collegiate level it can be salvaged but for youth and club soccer specifically whether its SCDSL, ECNL,ECRL, MLS, GAL, DPL, CRL, AWOL, HPV, IOU, DUI, etc, I think it's over.... (SO CAL) what say you @Grace T. @Copa9 ??


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> This is the lie that is often perpetuated by many immigrant families.  *The reality is that many immigrants came to the USA with education, money, and cultural capital. * Most of the poor folks in Michigan for example can’t afford a trip to Europe, Africa, Panama, China etc.
> 
> So how did your grandfather get to the USA w/o money, education, and cultural capital?


Bruno's parents came with education and $500.  That was late 60s and $500 is more than zero.  Dad of 4, how much is $500 in todays times?  I will say some people came here without their willingness to come.  That sucks and need's to be in the discussion.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> I know I am going to be hugely unpopular after saying this but I think sports is done and done. At least for this year at least... maybe at the collegiate level it can be salvaged but for youth and club soccer specifically whether its SCDSL, ECNL,ECRL, MLS, GAL, DPL, CRL, AWOL, HPV, IOU, DUI, etc, I think it's over.... (SO CAL) what say you @Grace T. @Copa9 ??


I thought it was over when they shut us down again.  At least it's over for SoCal.  NorCal may have a season still.  Other than San Francisco, it looks like parts of the bay area may have school too.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> Should we safely assume now that if schools going online (including colleges) *we will not see any youth sports in 2020?*


Yes, which means we are all stuck together for a long time


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

The fact is the cases will most likely go up.  If you get lucky and pass the 14 days, a nurse will be at the guard and someone will get the corona and all panic all over again.  This will not work and it's not supposed to work.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Both sides are guilty.  $2 an hour?  I knew a guy who is no longer in the trade biz that was taking advantage of immigrants ((illegal and legal)) but paying them under the table.  It wasnt no $2 an hour, that's for sure.  Some get paid really well and they dont have to pay taxes.  We need to fix this on both sides and keep the bad people out.  These are not bad people.  Their being exploited by everyone.


They may not be bad people... but what they're doing is illegal.  If we want people to come here legally and earn a fair wage, we need to stop encouraging illegals to come here by tearing down the border wall and promising "free" healthcare at the expense of the American taxpayer.  Fucking liberals will promise ANYTHING for votes.


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> The fact is the cases will most likely go up.  If you get lucky and pass the 14 days, a nurse will be at the guard and someone will get the corona and all panic all over again.  This will not work and it's not supposed to work.


With more testing you will have more cases. Let's all crawl under the rock and wait?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Outlaw, the system worked for me.  I received an incredible amount of support
> 
> Maybe your kids can go to BYU.  Just let them know that your pal MacDre said not to drink a Coke during their campus visit to BYU.  I was told caffeine is a drug.


The "system" won't work for most people without support.  But the opportunity to achieve is there for everybody.

Caffeine IS a drug.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> They may not be bad people... *but what they're doing is illegal*.  If we want people to come here legally and earn a fair wage, we need to stop encouraging illegals to come here by tearing down the border wall and promising "free" healthcare at the expense of the American taxpayer.  Fucking liberals will promise ANYTHING for votes.


The business owners who are making millions are cheating as well and money is tempting.  Get real Outlaw.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> The business owners who are making millions are cheating as well and money is tempting.  Get real Outlaw.


I *REAL*ize that, Spicoli, which is why I'm saying to stop the border crossings.  If there ARE no illegals to hire, there ARE no illegals to exploit.  People waiting to come here know, and are willing to do, those same jobs.  Let them do it for a fair wage.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> With more testing you will have more cases. Let's all crawl under the rock and wait?


I swear they said back in March that it was about keeping death down and flat the curve.  Now all we here on the news is more cases and more cases and shut her down and no sports.  Were all infected by the bat virus folks.  Some % will have no idea and will carry on in life.  He could also be the guy who died last night in a motor cycle accident and be counted as a Corvid death.  Other % will feel something and take it easy.  Still other % will feel like sh*t and sleep for 6 days like Dom did and I did.  Mine was 4 days with two really horrible nights like someone poking me with hot needles and my back killed me.  Hard time breathing.  I chalked it up as a bad ass flu type cough.  I still had the sniffles for weeks and I'm sure got others sick.  Some % with underlying heath issues will have a real hard time and race to ER.  Some % will die ((mostly over 80)) because the bat virus was too much for them. Some % of kids will die by a shark attack and 10% of those victims will have corona and not know it.  This should not be counted in covid death math but it would if it did happen.  It's not about keeping up the Joneses anymore, it's about keeping up with the Cases.


----------



## chiefs (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> The fact is the cases will most likely go up.  If you get lucky and pass the 14 days, a nurse will be at the guard and someone will get the corona and all panic all over again.  This will not work and it's not supposed to work.


Collectively, stop getting tested people.  There is zero point but punitive.


----------



## BIGD (Jul 17, 2020)

Nothing unreasonable about Newsom's guidelines.  And sounds like those of you that were adamant about remote learning including live instruction/discussion are going to get some of that.  I'm not looking forward to it, I'd prefer the kids could go back to school, but for middle class and up families I just don't get the outrage.  It's actually a good opportunity for our very comfortable kids to learn some resilience.  But again, I don't have the outrage disease that seems to have taken over our culture, regardless of your political views.  It's all temporary folks!  Everything is always changing.  Most of the time for the better.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

BIGD said:


> Nothing unreasonable about Newsom's guidelines.  And sounds like those of you that were adamant about remote learning including live instruction/discussion are going to get some of that.  I'm not looking forward to it, I'd prefer the kids could go back to school, but for middle class and up families I just don't get the outrage.  It's actually a good opportunity for our very comfortable kids to learn some resilience.  But again, I don't have the outrage disease that seems to have taken over our culture, regardless of your political views.  It's all temporary folks!  Everything is always changing.  Most of the time for the better.


Hey Big D, I sure hope your right.  I'm trying to think that way but each day the news is getting worse.  You do understand many many people are leaving the state.  My bro lives in Kauai and no one is coming to the islands.  He loves it for now but knows when his extra $600 a week goes away he will need to find work.


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 17, 2020)

BIGD said:


> Nothing unreasonable about Newsom's guidelines.  And sounds like those of you that were adamant about remote learning including live instruction/discussion are going to get some of that.  I'm not looking forward to it, I'd prefer the kids could go back to school, but for middle class and up families I just don't get the outrage.  It's actually a good opportunity for our very comfortable kids to learn some resilience.  But again, I don't have the outrage disease that seems to have taken over our culture, regardless of your political views.  It's all temporary folks!  Everything is always changing.  Most of the time for the better.


The outrage is about few people abusing power and about whole bunch of sheep going along with it.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

BIGD said:


> Nothing unreasonable about Newsom's guidelines.  And sounds like those of you that were adamant about remote learning including live instruction/discussion are going to get some of that.  I'm not looking forward to it, I'd prefer the kids could go back to school, but for middle class and up families I just don't get the outrage.  It's actually a good opportunity for our very comfortable kids to learn some resilience.  But again, I don't have the outrage disease that seems to have taken over our culture, regardless of your political views.  It's all temporary folks!  Everything is always changing.  Most of the time for the better.


The outrage is we are asking kids to sacrifice for the sake of older Americans, when it's usually been the other way around and we bear sacrifices for our kids.  Yet, the government said boo about the protests (and some even encouraged), the marijuana shops/liquor stores/home depots are open.  You can't play soccer but an outdoor dance class is o.k.  They lie to us about the masks, the length of lockdowns, and what the lockdowns were about and we say "o.k. can we have some more".  If you think this is just short term you are kidding yourself....most public school districts cannot flip the switch on and off like that.  And yes, it sucks I'm having to pay heavy duty fees for above par online learning at my kids private school....but at least he gets to do it from the comfort of our Utah condo and gets to wander out into the woods every day and have a swim in the afternoon.  I worry most about the kids that will be a year behind in learning and the inequity that will result to the most vulnerable and poor among our children.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

dad4 said:


> School opening is not obvious in either direction.
> 
> If you do open schools, the school based clusters, and resulting deaths among elderly relatives, will be in the working class neighborhoods, because that’s where the high infection rates are.
> 
> ...


Get off the fence it's a clear and simple issue. At some point be a parent and take a stand...should kids be in school or not?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 17, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> With more testing you will have more cases. Let's all crawl under the rock and wait?


No one likes to talk about the fact the US has tested the most people of any country in the world (sans China....who just puts up any ole number they want).  We’ve tested over 46 Million people. That’s almost double the next closest country (Russia) who has only tested 24 Million.


----------



## whatithink (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> This has pretty much discredited at this point.  Spain is accelerating again despite rigorous lockdowns and mask mandates.  Sweden is disappearing despite being attacked as lax.  At this point it's pretty clear that the Rona doesn't care about any government policy.  You can hold onto your illusion that we can actually do something and be comfortable in the matrix, or you can take the red pill and join some of us in the ugly reality.


You keep mentioning Sweden, but it has 3 to 4 times the deaths of Norway, Denmark & Finland, for little to no economic gain (globalization). They also trusted their citizens to be sensible, stay at home, keep distance, wash hands etc., which worked to a certain extent. Maybe their approach is right, maybe not - nobody knows yet ...

From the article
"Sweden had the highest rate of new cases of all European Union states, barring Luxembourg, in the past couple of weeks. That partly reflects that the country finally, after many false starts, has been able to ramp up testing. However, *it also indicates that the the virus remains more widespread than in most countries that have implemented more stringent measures.*"





__





						Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
					





					www.bloomberg.com


----------



## Woobie06 (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> The Governor was explaining social distancing with his kids and his example was about his caregiver.  How many besides Messy and Woobie have a caregiver? I love being my son and dd caregiver and I would never ever give that away to a caregiver or even pay for a caregiver.  Hey, to each his own  I have a hard time with his smile and talking about this and that and I would 100% have debated him if we were teammates in high school. Seems like a good guy to me. I know this must be really hard on his caregiver. I hope she gets a raise


Why bring me into this...and what makes you think I have a caregiver for my kids? The only caregivers my kids have ever had are my wife and I as well as the occasional grandparent watching when we have gone away for a night or two. GTFOH...you have no idea what your talking about....  

Why have kids if you don’t want to raise them?  Our job is to make sure they turn into good people.  Not judgmental, lazy, unaccountable, irresponsible drains on society.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> This one I always found entertaining. The people complaining about that name would not EVER go vacation in those countries. Why? Because the fact is in this world there are.....s..hole countries. They wouldn't dream of going to them. But when someone points out what they actually are? Why that is terrible.
> 
> I have been to over 40 countries...with many more to go. And for biz I send people to various countries, and some shall we say are very problematic, which is saying it gently.


My point is that if you are going to lead, lead. Don't divide. What good can possibly come from any leader saying something like this? Say, for instance, your child's history teacher said this before a lesson. It's just not useful.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> My kid the other day says “Trump has a fourth grade vocabulary.” We need to be reminded, lest we forget.


The difference between you & I:

To which I'd respond...and he created a multi-billion dollar company and was elected President of the greatest Country on earth....only in America, aren't we blessed.

Instead, I'm sure you teach your kid to shit on America, like those you embrace.


----------



## chiefs (Jul 17, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> No one like to talk about the fact the IS has tested the most people of any country in the world (sans China....who just puts up any ole number they want).  We’ve tested over 46 Million people. That’s almost double the next closets country (Russia) who has only tested 24 Million.


PEOPLE STOP TESTING! other facts people forget is that the death rate in italy and spain (at a minimum) is much worse than the US.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

chiefs said:


> PEOPLE STOP TESTING! other facts people forget is that the death rate in italy and spain (at a minimum) is much worse than the US.


And the other fact people forget are both countries have a much older population.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

whatithink said:


> So the choice for president is for a racist or a racist apparently. Two old white guys who having been walking the paths of power or wealth or both for decades. Just as well systemic racism is a nothing thing in either the wealth system or the political system. Two shit candidates IMO demonstrating everything that is wrong in our politics.


Yeah...and many folks are willing to hand the country over to an old guy with early on-set (that we're all suppose to pretend isn't clearly obvious).


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

Parting comment about CoVid...for now. 

When you actually research the numbers that the CDC provides, there is little affect on those without underlying conditions under the age of 70. There is almost zero affect for those under the age of 20. 

Also, the Flu death numbers do not include the same underlying conditions that CoVid does but only Pneumonia and Respiratory Distress.   

Unbiased link to CDC numbers both with and without underlying conditions.  








						Coronavirus Disease 2019 Case Surveillance — United States ...
					

This report describes the most common underlying health conditions among COVID-19 cases in the United States as of May 30, 2020.




					www.cdc.gov


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> This isn't what liberals want.  They don't want people following the rules.  They don't want people like this having a skill so they can earn for themselves and think for themselves.  THESE people won't vote for liberals because they know nothing should be handed to them.  THESE people know they'll be paid a living wage because they're now American citizens and they'll earn it.
> 
> It's the illegal that comes here in the dead of night, working for $2 an hour and worrying about deportation everyday.  THOSE are the immigrants willing to give liberals their votes.


WTF.  They can’t vote!  What are you talking about?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> WTF.  They can’t vote!  What are you talking about?


You're kidding, right?  Let me guess... you think California won't give them a driver's license, either, don't you?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> WTF.  They can’t vote!  What are you talking about?


Still waiting for a comment on this, Dre.  You think this is a system problem?  Their great, great, great, great grandfather was a slave?









						Disturbing video shows teens beating pregnant mom, kicking toddler
					

A group of teens pummeled a pregnant Illinois mom — and even drop-kicked her helpless tot — during a caught-on-video brawl, according to footage and reports. The disturbing confrontatio…




					nypost.com


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> You really are from Mars.


Again, this is what getting owned looks like.


----------



## BIGD (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The outrage is we are asking kids to sacrifice for the sake of older Americans, when it's usually been the other way around and we bear sacrifices for our kids.  Yet, the government said boo about the protests (and some even encouraged), the marijuana shops/liquor stores/home depots are open.  You can't play soccer but an outdoor dance class is o.k.  They lie to us about the masks, the length of lockdowns, and what the lockdowns were about and we say "o.k. can we have some more".  If you think this is just short term you are kidding yourself....most public school districts cannot flip the switch on and off like that.  And yes, it sucks I'm having to pay heavy duty fees for above par online learning at my kids private school....but at least he gets to do it from the comfort of our Utah condo and gets to wander out into the woods every day and have a swim in the afternoon.  I worry most about the kids that will be a year behind in learning and the inequity that will result to the most vulnerable and poor among our children.


I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, but I would just ask yourself how's that outrage working for you?   I think our culture could use a little stoicism.  If you are mostly worried about the most vulnerable and poor, what can you do that's within your means to help them/one student/one family? 

As for length of time, I'm guessing we'll be remote learning for at least the fall semester, maybe longer.  But that's still temporary.  It won't last forever.  Life will go on.  Being outraged just makes you feel stressed and grumpy and your immune system less effective and definitely doesn't solve any problems.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Maybe so... but even on Mars they can read the factual statistics.  Why do you constantly fight the truth, Dre?


Let me answer: Eeeemotion vs. logic and intellectual honesty.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Anything for votes...









						Schumer, Senate Democrats Propose $350 Billion in Aid for Minority Communities
					

Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and 14 Senate Democrats on Thursday proposed to invest $350 billion in communities of color, which have been hit disproportionately by the coronavirus pandemic, as part of the next aid package.The proposal would provide $135 billion for child care, mental health...




					www.yahoo.com


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Let's be honest... you only care about black kids.  What we're saying is black children, depending on who you listen to, are being born into single parent households more than 90% of the time.  THAT is the problem, not the system.  If black men can't stick around to be fathers, maybe they could spring $ .50 for a condom now and then?  And now the morons at BLM want to push back on traditional family households despite every statistic showing that produces more crime and more deaths.
> 
> If you support black kids, you'll support cops, two parent households and accountability.


...and school choice, but he won't touch it with a 10 foot pole.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> The outrage is we are asking kids to sacrifice for the sake of older Americans, when it's usually been the other way around and we bear sacrifices for our kids.  Yet, the government said boo about the protests (and some even encouraged), the marijuana shops/liquor stores/home depots are open.  You can't play soccer but an outdoor dance class is o.k.  They lie to us about the masks, the length of lockdowns, and what the lockdowns were about and we say *"o.k. can we have some more".*  If you think this is just short term you are kidding yourself....most public school districts cannot flip the switch on and off like that.  And yes, it sucks I'm having to pay heavy duty fees for above par online learning at my kids private school....but at least he gets to do it from the comfort of our Utah condo and gets to wander out into the woods every day and have a swim in the afternoon.  I worry most about the kids that will be a year behind in learning and the inequity that will result to the most vulnerable and poor among our children.


Messy or EOTL, pick your nightmare spanker!!!


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

BIGD said:


> I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, but I would just ask yourself how's that outrage working for you?   I think our culture could use a little stoicism.  If you are mostly worried about the most vulnerable and poor, what can you do that's within your means to help them/one student/one family?
> 
> As for length of time, I'm guessing we'll be remote learning for at least the fall semester, maybe longer.  But that's still temporary.  It won't last forever.  Life will go on.  Being outraged just makes you feel stressed and grumpy and your immune system less effective and definitely doesn't solve any problems.


I dunno how it will work....I don't know if we'll really even like living in Utah.  But something's got to change.  Can't continue this way without breaking the kids.  And at least for my little one, at least 1/12 of his life will have been spent under these conditions...that's gotta do something for a person. But hey, maybe in the film there was someone that woke up after taking the red pill, saw the new reality around them, heard the history and thought "whoa...that's bogus, but Zion's kinda sweet".  But so long as you felt the same way about the Floyd outrage, that's fair.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Still waiting for a comment on this, Dre.  You think this is a system problem?  Their great, great, great, great grandfather was a slave?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is bad.  What’s your point?


----------



## whatithink (Jul 17, 2020)

chiefs said:


> PEOPLE STOP TESTING! other facts people forget is that the death rate in italy and spain (at a minimum) is much worse than the US.


People shouldn't test "just because", that's just stupid. If you have symptoms or have been in close contact with someone who tested positive, then having a test is probably prudent, esp. the former.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

chiefs said:


> He had no money, became a brick layer, no support from anyone....sorry it doesn't fit your narrative but he did come over in a boat with nothing.


If you say so.  I guess my daughters grandkids will tell the story about how she grew up in poverty in Tijuana during the war on drugs.  Can you imagine how scary it is for a child to grow up in a city with 2500 murders.  Then one day she set sail from puerto nuevo and eventually landed in san diego.  
GTFOH!


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

carla hinkle said:


> The United States is blowing the world away for new COVID cases.


Cases yes. Notice deaths are not following along with that. That is why the press now talks cases and not deaths. 


carla hinkle said:


> Plus Italy (along with Spain) has something like 80% of people wearing masks now


Spain is now starting to shut down Barcelona and the surrounding areas again as of yesterday or today.


carla hinkle said:


> Have you seen pictures of Italy now? They have absolutely very close to normal life and almost no COVID.


So does Sweden


carla hinkle said:


> The US didn't lock down hard enough or long enough (except maybe NY/NJ/CT).


Except NY/NJ/CT? You mean the states where about 40% off all deaths were? So if your argument is they locked down hard enough and the rest of the US didn't, why did they experience so many deaths? And the rest of the US really hasn't experienced that?


carla hinkle said:


> They have absolutely very close to normal life and almost no COVID.


By the way they are not back to a normal life yet. They rely heavily on tourism. Much of their tourism infrastructure is not fully open. They are attempting to phase stuff back in over the month of August. Yes they have started to let people in the Schengen zone in. But they are not for much of the rest of the world. And they are staggering tourism openings. They have a long way to go. 

And they will see covid cases rise again. As they move around more, more cases will rise again. As travelers start coming in, cases will rise again. 

Back to Spain who you seem happy about. Barcelona just recorded over 1k cases again yesterday. 

What is interesting about what is happening now is despite the rather large rise is positives in the West and South of the US, we are not seeing anything like the number of corresponding deaths that we saw up in the NE. NY has something like 420k cases and with that 32k deaths. Cal has 370K cases and only about 7k deaths. 

NY/NJ/CT/MA/PA are close to half of all deaths in USA. 

The press has been hyperventilating about AZ/TX/FL/GA for some time. Those states have about 10% of all deaths. 

Now how many cases does NY/NJ/CT/MA/PA have? 880k confirmed cases. 

AZ/TX/FL/GA have 921k cases. 

Why is that despite more cases, those states have fewer deaths? And by a long shot. Did the lockdowns help the NE? It seems hard to argue that lockdowns in NY were the way to go, but somehow AZ has it wrong? Has the virus changed? What has changed? Is the virus less lethal? Have we already lost the most vulnerable?


----------



## BIGD (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I dunno how it will work....I don't know if we'll really even like living in Utah.  But something's got to change.  Can't continue this way without breaking the kids.  And at least for my little one, at least 1/12 of his life will have been spent under these conditions...that's gotta do something for a person. But hey, maybe in the film there was someone that woke up after taking the red pill, saw the new reality around them, heard the history and thought "whoa...that's bogus, but Zion's kinda sweet".  But so long as you felt the same way about the Floyd outrage, that's fair.


Kids distance learning temporarily and murder is not exactly a fair comparison.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> This is the lie that is often perpetuated by many immigrant families.  The reality is that many immigrants came to the USA with education, money, and cultural capital.  Most of the poor folks in Michigan for example can’t afford a trip to Europe, Africa, Panama, China etc.
> 
> So how did your grandfather get to the USA w/o money, education, and cultural capital?


What about the early irish immigrants?  They came over here as indentured servants didnt they?


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Say, for instance, your child's history teacher said this before a lesson. It's just not useful.


Actually it is good for a history teacher or someone else to point out which countries are crap holes. You can use that to compare and contrast why certain cultures do much better than others. The rule of law comes to mind. Why certain types of political systems lead to terrible corruption, etc. 

Much better than looking at some crappy countries and then listen to the teacher tell my kids all cultures are equal or just as good as each other, when we know that is not the case. There is a reason 3rd world countries are 3rd world. And there is a reason why countries move into 1st world status. Pretending it is different does nobody any good.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> What about the early irish immigrants?  They came over here as indentured servants didnt they?


Very true and very different analysis.  It tripped me out, when I looked on the slave roles and saw Irish indentured servants.
I have even been uncomfortable with how I have seen Irish and Polish folk treated relatively recently in the UK.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 17, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Get off the fence it's a clear and simple issue. At some point be a parent and take a stand...should kids be in school or not?


If it were all about me as a parent, it would be easy.  

My kids have the skills and home support to work independently.   Pure virtual works just fine, for us.

It does not work out so great for everyone else.  

Which puts me back on the fence.  Nice view, but a little precarious.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> This is bad.  What’s your point?


Where do you think the oppressive system failed them?  White karate teacher didn't do his job?  I never heard a "kiai" when that feral, black punk's shoe struck the white toddler in the head.  That said, do you think Al Sharpton will have a comment?  LeBron will pay for the girl's college?


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

Wow...have fun trying to work through the state policies for schools.





__





						Loading…
					





					files.covid19.ca.gov


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Very true and very different analysis.  It tripped me out, when I looked on the slave roles and saw Irish indentured servants.
> I have even been uncomfortable with how I have seen Irish and Polish folk treated relatively recently in the UK.


Scots too.  That's the problem with being white these days.  How does one know if the white dude their looking at with hatred is the whitey that is Irish, Scottish or an elitist first class snob and will get off the boat before the kids and woman if the boat is sinking. There lies the issue Dre.  We all have been treated like sh*t if your not an elitist born into wealth.   Just the kind of leader to lead those off the boat too.  Loser!!!!  I'm not sure how much the coal workers on the bottom of the titanic got paid but it sure wasnt much I hear.  But hell, it was job I guess.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Where do you think the oppressive system failed them?  White karate teacher didn't do his job?


Hard to say.  Ask me that after about 20 years of equality and I’ll answer your question.  If I were to answer now, my answer would be pure speculation and conjecture and that ain’t helpful.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Hard to say.  Ask me that after about 20 years of equality and I’ll answer your question.  If I were to answer now, my answer would be pure speculation and conjecture and that ain’t helpful.


Being equal and having the opportunity to be equal are different things.  If we're going by "content of their character"... seems that's regressing.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Bruno's parents came with education and $500.  That was late 60s and $500 is more than zero.  Dad of 4, how much is $500 in todays times?  I will say some people came here without their willingness to come.  That sucks and need's to be in the discussion.


About $4000.

Enough for a weeks groceries, a cheap used car and the deposit on a cheap apartment.  That's about it.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Yes... by ALL means, more money.  Money solves all problems.  - Demotards









						Biden says more money, planning needed to reopen U.S. schools
					

A five-part plan released by Biden's campaign argued that children can only return to the classroom after summer recess once more measures are taken to stop the novel coronavirus and prepare schools for the risks.  "President Trump has made it much worse."  Trump campaign spokesman Ken Farnaso...




					www.yahoo.com


----------



## whatithink (Jul 17, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> What about the early irish immigrants?  They came over here as indentured servants didnt they?


Yeah, his point is a bit BS or just blatant broad brush. The Irish, esp. the Catholics, that came over as indentured servants were uneducated and piss poor. The very large numbers, again mostly Catholic, who came over from the late 1840s fleeing the famine in Ireland and through the next few decades were also pretty uneducated and piss poor. The Irish did clearly encounter prejudice and discrimination with the infamous, "No Irish Need Apply", tag line in documented records from the 1840s through to the last known in 1909.

The Protestant Irish tended to be better educated and had some means. The only "advantage" the Irish had was in being white, which allowed them to assimilate quicker. It still took a couple of generations.


----------



## gotothebushes (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Actually it is good for a history teacher or someone else to point out which countries are crap holes. You can use that to compare and contrast why certain cultures do much better than others. The rule of law comes to mind. Why certain types of political systems lead to terrible corruption, etc.
> 
> Much better than looking at some crappy countries and then listen to the teacher tell my kids all cultures are equal or just as good as each other, when we know that is not the case. There is a reason 3rd world countries are 3rd world. And there is a reason why countries move into 1st world status. Pretending it is different does nobody any good.


Desert Hound! Please read your post out loud and just listen to what your saying!!


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Wow...have fun trying to work through the state policies for schools.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ugh. It's 19 pages and on the 3rd it states the document "and is not exhaustive". I need the Reader's Digest condensed version.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Actually it is good for a history teacher or someone else to point out which countries are crap holes. You can use that to compare and contrast why certain cultures do much better than others. The rule of law comes to mind. Why certain types of political systems lead to terrible corruption, etc.
> 
> Much better than looking at some crappy countries and then listen to the teacher tell my kids all cultures are equal or just as good as each other, when we know that is not the case. There is a reason 3rd world countries are 3rd world. And there is a reason why countries move into 1st world status. Pretending it is different does nobody any good.


I once had a crim professor tell me the death penalty didn't serve as a good deterrent for committing murders.  I raised my hand and told him I could think of at least ONE person that would be deterred.  He made me leave for the day.  Fucking libtard.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> Desert Hound! Please read your post out loud and just listen to what your saying!!


I did. Sounded as honest as the first time through.

You don't think 3rd world countries are in that state due to culture, political systems, etc?

Or you like to pretend differently?

Start with Somalia for instance. Contrast and compare with the US. If that is too close to home, compare and contrast with lets say Italy.

Start with how they treat women, gays, religious minorities. You go first.


----------



## whatithink (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Very true and very different analysis.  It tripped me out, when I looked on the slave roles and saw Irish indentured servants.
> I have even been uncomfortable with how I have seen Irish and Polish folk treated relatively recently in the UK.


Here's some more tripping for you, from 1976, The Black Irish of Monserrat.





Or how it began in the late 1600s, To Hell or Barbados




__





						Amazon.com: To Hell or Barbados: The ethnic cleansing of Ireland: 8601200416800: O'Callaghan, Sean: Books
					

Amazon.com: To Hell or Barbados: The ethnic cleansing of Ireland: 8601200416800: O'Callaghan, Sean: Books



					www.amazon.com


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> I once had a crim professor tell me the death penalty didn't serve as a good deterrent for committing murders.  I raised my hand and told him I could think of at least ONE person that would be deterred.  He made me leave for the day.  Fucking libtard.


I almost reported that post. So much hate...hehe.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Still waiting for a comment on this, Dre.  You think this is a system problem?  Their great, great, great, great grandfather was a slave?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dumb ass bitch had it coming.  Why is she hanging out in the hood with known hoodrats?  She should know only bad things happen in the hood. Does she not watch the news.  She put herself in that position.  Plus she was moving when they were shouting at her "stop resisting," "stop resisting." As for the kid, why is the kid "obstructing" a beat down.  Kid deserved a beat down for "obstruction of hood justice."


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I almost reported that post. So much hate...hehe.


Hey... I didn't even post that he's black, Hound.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Dumb ass bitch had it coming.  Why is she hanging out in the hood with known hoodrats?  She should know only bad things happen in the hood. Does she not watch the news.  She put herself in that position.  Plus she was moving when they were shouting at her "stop resisting," "stop resisting." As for the kid, why is the kid "obstructing" a beat down.  Kid deserved a beat down for "obstruction of hood justice."


Now you're speaking my language.  Probably a mudshark and the baby daddy is black.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Actually it is good for a history teacher or someone else to point out which countries are crap holes. You can use that to compare and contrast why certain cultures do much better than others. The rule of law comes to mind. Why certain types of political systems lead to terrible corruption, etc.
> 
> Much better than looking at some crappy countries and then listen to the teacher tell my kids all cultures are equal or just as good as each other, when we know that is not the case. There is a reason 3rd world countries are 3rd world. And there is a reason why countries move into 1st world status. Pretending it is different does nobody any good.


I won't argue with presenting facts, comparing, contrasting, etc. However, I just don't see any value in the derogatory name calling. The same things can be taught with civility.


----------



## gotothebushes (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I did. Sounded as honest as the first time through.
> 
> You don't think 3rd world countries are in that state due to culture, political systems, etc?
> 
> ...


 Actually my apologies misspoke! I see your point!


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

whatithink said:


> Yeah, his point is a bit BS or just blatant broad brush. The Irish, esp. the Catholics, that came over as indentured servants were uneducated and piss poor. The very large numbers, again mostly Catholic, who came over from the late 1840s fleeing the famine in Ireland and through the next few decades were also pretty uneducated and piss poor. The Irish did clearly encounter prejudice and discrimination with the infamous, "No Irish Need Apply", tag line in documented records from the 1840s through to the last known in 1909.
> 
> The Protestant Irish tended to be better educated and had some means. The only "advantage" the Irish had was in being white, which allowed them to assimilate quicker. It still took a couple of generations.


Many of my relatives in England live in Brixton.  Relatives tell me that when they arrived from the West Indies there were signs that said No Pets, Irish, and blacks posted .








						1981 Brixton riot - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Ugh. It's 19 pages and on the 3rd it states the document "and is not exhaustive". I need the Reader's Digest condensed version.


I remember when y'all said my middle school's reopening plan looked horrible and like a prison.  It's 1/3 of this document's length.   Ahhh....the good old days when kid's prison were what we had to look forward to.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> Agree. The first part of fixing a problem is admitting there is a problem rather than blame the past.
> 
> I just don’t know if anyone will actually admit to the problem(s). It’s just much easier to make excuses and point the finger at someone else.


Exactly, Mars, you Chiefs and Outlaw have just been describing Trump's base to a "T."  Bunch of f'n low life deplorable losers who couldn't hack it in America's free market.  They lost and now they have the balls to blame illegals, libs, and dems for all their problems.  And since they're White, they also have the balls to DEMAND handouts.  Bring back coal, force companies to lose money and bring back manufacturing to my home town so I can have a job.  I'm glad you guys have been able to identify these losers.  

Yes, outlaw, they should ALL look in the mirror before they blame anybody else for their problems.  I agree.


----------



## gotothebushes (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Now you're speaking my language.  Probably a mudshark and the baby daddy is black.


Mudshark? Really!  Easier to say interracial dating? Is there a difference?


----------



## whatithink (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Many of my relatives in England live in Brixton.  Relatives tell me that when they arrived from the West Indies there were signs that said No Pets, Irish, and blacks posted .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, the Irish had the same thing there, but for longer. Google the "punch cartoon irish" and images and you'll see how the Irish were portrayed in the British media and/or to the British people - nothing subtle.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> I once had a crim professor tell me the death penalty didn't serve as a good deterrent for committing murders.  I raised my hand and told him I could think of at least ONE person that would be deterred.  He made me leave for the day.  Fucking libtard.


Couldn't go through with it huh?  Once a pussy, always a pussy!


----------



## gotothebushes (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Now you're speaking my language.  Probably a mudshark and the baby daddy is black.


 Interracial people and couples is what Makes American Great!!


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

whatithink said:


> Here's some more tripping for you, from 1976, The Black Irish of Monserrat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This makes sense and is consistent with my history from the West Indies.  I have a Scottish grandfather that I think had royal blood because of my family commonage property in the Bahamas. 









						Windermere Island - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				



Hey at @EJ, I know some Scots had it good.  Did some Scots have it bad too?


----------



## Justafan (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> This one I always found entertaining. The people complaining about that name would not EVER go vacation in those countries. Why? Because the fact is in this world there are.....s..hole countries. They wouldn't dream of going to them. But when someone points out what they actually are? Why that is terrible.
> 
> I have been to over 40 countries...with many more to go. And for biz I send people to various countries, and some shall we say are very problematic, which is saying it gently.


Hello, Mexico, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Jamaica, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico . . . The problem is not that they are 3rd world countries or "shitholes," it's that Trump, and apparently you, think that all the people coming from there are "shitholes."  And just as an FYI, 3rd world status does not mean it's a "shithole" culture.


----------



## gotothebushes (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Hello, Mexico, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Jamaica, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico . . . The problem is not that they are 3rd world countries or "shitholes," it's that Trump, and apparently you, think that all the people coming from there are "shitholes."  And just as an FYI, 3rd world status does not mean it's a "shithole" culture.


 Well said!


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

whatithink said:


> Yes, the Irish had the same thing there, but for longer. Google the "punch cartoon irish" and images and you'll see how the Irish were portrayed in the British media and/or to the British people - nothing subtle.


So fucked up!


----------



## Justafan (Jul 17, 2020)

Banana Hammock said:


> The most cowardly, un-American attitude I have seen in a while.  Your mistake waiting on the government to save you.  Canada is nice this time of year.


Relax, Hammock.  I think you missed the word "IF."  And you're way too uptight.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Hello, Mexico, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Jamaica, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico . . . The problem is not that they are 3rd world countries or "shitholes," it's that Trump, and apparently you, think that all the people coming from there are "shitholes."  And just as an FYI, 3rd world status does not mean it's a "shithole" culture.


Errr....my folks are from Peru and Mexico.  We're proud of our culture and la raza, we still speak the lengua, my folks still go to all the local restaurants and hangout with their generation and reminsice about the old days, they still wave their flags during the world cup.  They miss their homelands.  But they were part of the educated elite over there and still fled their shitholes.  Now granted, my father wouldn't describe his country as a shithole.  He left that to my brothers and me when we visited the joint when I was 6 and we all came down with something serious we suspect was cholera. He reserves the term "shithole" for Chile.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> This makes sense and is consistent with my history from the West Indies.  I have a Scottish grandfather that I think had royal blood because of my family commonage property in the Bahamas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I saw the movie Brave heart and the warrior music brings life into me.  I thought the Scots had to pay the king taxes.  I see the Governor from Cali has some Scottish blood too.  I might be Irish now that I think about it.  My biological mama last name is Kirk so I went with Scottish but my wife thinks maybe Irish.  I will take the test to find out.  Plus @Dre, my son was born on Saint Patrick's Day so that could be a sign and I feel lucky these days.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Errr....my folks are from Peru and Mexico.  We're proud of our culture and la raza, we still speak the lengua, my folks still go to all the local restaurants and hangout with their generation and reminsice about the old days, they still wave their flags during the world cup.  They miss their homelands.  But they were part of the educated elite over there and still fled their shitholes.  Now granted, my father wouldn't describe his country as a shithole.  He left that to my brothers and me when we visited the joint when I was 6 and we all came down with something serious we suspect was cholera. He reserves the term "shithole" for Chile.


????


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> Mudshark? Really!  Easier to say interracial dating? Is there a difference?


You tell me.  I had a black buddy tell me that's the term they use for white women that chase black guys.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Couldn't go through with it huh?  Once a pussy, always a pussy!


Couldn't go through with what, dummy?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> Interracial people and couples is what Makes American Great!!


Hey... if the father sticks around, I certainly don't care about interracial.  Her father might... but that's his problem.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Cases yes. Notice deaths are not following along with that. That is why the press now talks cases and not deaths.
> 
> Spain is now starting to shut down Barcelona and the surrounding areas again as of yesterday or today.
> 
> ...


Quick question. How many people need to die in AZ to convince you that your state really f**ked up?

Yes, the lockdowns helped the NE. AZ is fortunate that it doesn’t have population density to worry about and that cacti and dirt aren’t contagious, but s**t’s tracking pretty bad anyway. Abysmal, in fact.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

dad4 said:


> If it were all about me as a parent, it would be easy.
> 
> My kids have the skills and home support to work independently.   Pure virtual works just fine, for us.
> 
> ...


Sure, my kids as well...but our kids need to be around each other for social and mental health as well, probably more than either of us realize. It's not me stating this, plenty of experts in child psycology and pediatrics... check it out.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Exactly, Mars, you Chiefs and Outlaw have just been describing Trump's base to a "T."  Bunch of f'n low life deplorable losers who couldn't hack it in America's free market.  They lost and now they have the balls to blame illegals, libs, and dems for all their problems.  And since they're White, they also have the balls to DEMAND handouts.  Bring back coal, force companies to lose money and bring back manufacturing to my home town so I can have a job.  I'm glad you guys have been able to identify these losers.
> 
> Yes, outlaw, they should ALL look in the mirror before they blame anybody else for their problems.  I agree.


Couldn't hack it in the free market?  Uh, we're not the ones begging for a lowered bar so we can be included.  "Wah... make the cops go away."  "Wah... make weed legal."  "Wah... let us paint graffiti in the street so we're empowered."  "Wah... make that red flag with the X disappear."  "Wah... black criminals matter."  "Wah... those statues really make us mad."  "Wah... say his name."  "WWWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!"

You really are a fucking moron.  Does the SHU commander know you've been on the web longer than 5 minutes tonight?


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Exactly, Mars, you Chiefs and Outlaw have just been describing Trump's base to a "T."  Bunch of f'n low life deplorable losers who couldn't hack it in America's free market.  They lost and now they have the balls to blame illegals, libs, and dems for all their problems.  And since they're White, they also have the balls to DEMAND handouts.  Bring back coal, force companies to lose money and bring back manufacturing to my home town so I can have a job.  I'm glad you guys have been able to identify these losers.
> 
> Yes, outlaw, they should ALL look in the mirror before they blame anybody else for their problems.  I agree.


LOL, can’t figure out if you fit in my Far Left bracket or Radicalized Left bracket yet. I’m sure I will figure it out within a couple posts. Were you the ANTIFA supporter from the CoVid thread. I know @EOTL is the only one in my radicalized bracket at this point.

FYI, my brackets are as follows:

Radicalized Left - ANTIFA, BLM, Nation of Islam, etc. I small minority of the left.

Far Left - CNN Junkies reinforces by more biased information. Tends to believe in socialism

Dumb Left - someone who only watches CNN or MSNBC during the evening. Majority of the Left.

Critical Thinking Liberal - A liberal with respect for other people’s opinions. Has liberal morals but also educated and understands the other side. Does research on the source of the source.

Uninformed Swing Voter - that person you know who doesn’t inform themselves on politics or cares about politics and still votes

Informed Swing Voter - Gets both sides of the story 

Critical Thinking Conservative - Same as Critical Liberal but with Conservative values

Dumb Right - same as dumb left but with Fox Cable News. Majority of the Right.

Alt Right - more than just Fox Cable News, adds additional media like Breitbart and Infowars

Radicalized Right - Right Wing Militias, KKK, etc. A small minority of the Right.

I was going to add User names but decided it would not be a great idea. So where do you all fit in?


----------



## Justafan (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Couldn't go through with what, dummy?


Tough guy can’t pull the trigger.  Even your professor knew you were a phony.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> LOL, can’t figure out if you fit in my Far Left bracket or Radicalized Left bracket yet. I’m sure I will figure it out within a couple posts. Were you the ANTIFA supporter from the CoVid thread. I know @EOTL is the only one in my radicalized bracket at this point.
> 
> FYI, my brackets are as follows:
> 
> ...


I see it a little differently but I really like how you lay it all out Mars.  If one is honest with themselves, they can slide right into whatever class their in. I would also add Warlord and Virago to the radicalized Lefties.  Grand Wizard and White Supremacist for the Radicalized Right.  
Can you legally start a militia?
Private *Militias*. Private *militias* are armed military groups that are composed of private citizens and not recognized by federal or state governments. ... Generally, these laws prohibit the parading and exercising of armed private *militias* in public, but *do* not forbid the formation of private *militias*.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 17, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Couldn't hack it in the free market?  Uh, we're not the ones begging for a lowered bar so we can be included.  "Wah... make the cops go away."  "Wah... make weed legal."  "Wah... let us paint graffiti in the street so we're empowered."  "Wah... make that red flag with the X disappear."  "Wah... black criminals matter."  "Wah... those statues really make us mad."  "Wah... say his name."  "WWWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!"
> 
> You really are a fucking moron.  Does the SHU commander know you've been on the web longer than 5 minutes tonight?


Weak. Why didn’t you address what I said? You completely changed the topic because you know I’m right. You keep pounding the table outlaw.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> ????


One of my daughter’s best friends is Chilean.  She’s brunette with green eyes and of European decent without one drop of Indigenous blood.  Her family is also absurdly rich.  Argentina and Chile are “whiter” than many European countries!


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Very true and very different analysis.  It tripped me out, when I looked on the slave roles and saw Irish indentured servants.
> I have even been uncomfortable with how I have seen Irish and Polish folk treated relatively recently in the UK.


Not talked about much in history books either


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> LOL, can’t figure out if you fit in my Far Left bracket or Radicalized Left bracket yet. I’m sure I will figure it out within a couple posts. Were you the ANTIFA supporter from the CoVid thread. I know @EOTL is the only one in my radicalized bracket at this point.
> 
> FYI, my brackets are as follows:
> 
> ...


Plus I would add to the alt right the crazy christian interpretation of the bible like that snake pastor that died after his 9th bite.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 17, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Sure, my kids as well...but our kids need to be around each other for social and mental health as well, probably more than either of us realize. It's not me stating this, plenty of experts in child psycology and pediatrics... check it out.


I’ve been watching it.  For elementary, I’m in favor of opening with small stable groups.

For high school, I don’t see how we can open without a significant increase in cases that forces us to close it back down 6 weeks later.

If we were capable of 98% compliance with mask usage and non-gathering, then maybe we could get our rates down enough to open high schools.

But everything I see indicates we are not capable of it.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> LOL, can’t figure out if you fit in my Far Left bracket or Radicalized Left bracket yet. I’m sure I will figure it out within a couple posts. Were you the ANTIFA supporter from the CoVid thread. I know @EOTL is the only one in my radicalized bracket at this point.
> 
> FYI, my brackets are as follows:
> 
> ...


Another one bites the dust.   Why did you change the subject?  And really, it’s all about labels for you? The first sign of a weak argument is somebody who starts off labeling somebody as a lib, dem, alt right, etc.

Substance my friend, it’s all about the substance of the argument.  Check all my posts, I’ve never labeled anyone.  And for that matter I’ve never criticized Trump for misspellings, or gaffes.  That’s for weak fucks.  

You want an intellectualy honest discussion, you’re on. Let’s see if you can hang tough guy. I can’t stand Trump, but he was right on the China ban, Biden was wrong, 3.5 unemployment was great, Soleimani & the other fuck were good to taken out.

I’m assuming you hated Obama, so give me a couple of good things about Obama.  I’ll be waiting.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> One of my daughter’s best friends is Chilean.  She’s brunette with green eyes and of European decent without one drop of Indigenous blood.  Her family is also absurdly rich.  Argentina and Chile are “whiter” than many European countries!


Sounds like Grace agrees with me, but I’m not sure about the “Errr,” so my reason for the ????!


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> LOL, can’t figure out if you fit in my Far Left bracket or Radicalized Left bracket yet. I’m sure I will figure it out within a couple posts. Were you the ANTIFA supporter from the CoVid thread. I know @EOTL is the only one in my radicalized bracket at this point.
> 
> FYI, my brackets are as follows:
> 
> ...


I dunno.  A handful of more categories for your consideration.  The Dumb Right is divided into the true Dumb Right (think Hannity and Trump can do no wrong) and the Bargain with the Devil Right (think Tucker Carlson and that is critical of Trump but thinks the left is worse or evil).  Similarly, your Dumb Left divides into the true Dumb Left (Kimmel who thinks the left is not only great and can do no wrong but also that the right is evil) and the Establishment Left (Pelosi who are in it more for themselves and the power).  You left out the libertarians, the blue dogs (what's left of em), and the Never Trump Neocons (Megan McCain and Bill Kristol...you can't put them in the critical thinking conservatives because they are motivated by a blind hatred of Trump, even when he stumbles into something that's actually smart).   I was probably an Informed Swing Voter, am now a Critical Thinking Conservatie, but am moving into the Bargain with the Devil Right.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Sounds like Grace agrees with me, but I’m not sure about the “Errr,” so my reason for the ????!


Peruvians, Chileans and Bolivians hate each other (more than they hate the classes and racial mixes within their own societies).  Because of history.  "Everyone's just a little bit racist"-- Avenue Q.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I dunno.  A handful of more categories for your consideration.  The Dumb Right is divided into the true Dumb Right (think Hannity and Trump can do no wrong) and the Bargain with the Devil Right (think Tucker Carlson and that is critical of Trump but thinks the left is worse or evil).  Similarly, your Dumb Left divides into the true Dumb Left (Kimmel who thinks the left is not only great and can do no wrong but also that the right is evil) and the Establishment Left (Pelosi who are in it more for themselves and the power).  You left out the libertarians, the blue dogs (what's left of em), and the Never Trump Neocons (Megan McCain and Bill Kristol...you can't put them in the critical thinking conservatives because they are motivated by a blind hatred of Trump, even when he stumbles into something that's actually smart).   I was probably an Informed Swing Voter, am now a Critical Thinking Conservatie, but am moving into the Bargain with the Devil Right.


My freind Colin were just laughing about all this.  In January 2020, my pal was making $150,000 and saving for seven more years and then move to Bali.  He went there a few years ago and fell in love with a beautiful Bali girl.  Let me just say this.  You can live on the beach in a bungalow for $700 a month.  I think he said he can live there and be treated like a kIng under $2,000.  He hated when I brought up politics.  He was uninformed swinger on the left.  Today, he bought a gun and is looking at property out of Cali ((Utah sounds good)) and will move if Joe wins.  He loves Trump.  I would put him at the critical thinking right side but is showing signs of militia and i'm shocked and tripping out.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Peruvians, Chileans and Bolivians hate each other (more than they hate the classes and racial mixes within their own societies).  Because of history.  "Everyone's just a little bit racist"-- Avenue Q.


p.s. you guys want to see a good soccer series how soccer really operates in most of the world, during quarantine watch "Club de Cuervos" on Netflix.  You want to see how racist the Mexicans can be and how they really and truly regard Central America as a shithole, watch the spin off "La Balada de Jugo Chavez"...they use far worse terms than shithole.

p.p.s. let's not forget while we are all distracted with our statutes and school closures, the Chinese are shipping off the Uigars in trains to concentration camps a la 1945 redux.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Another one bites the dust.   Why did you change the subject?  And really, it’s all about labels for you? The first sign of a weak argument is somebody who starts off labeling somebody as a lib, dem, alt right, etc.
> 
> Substance my friend, it’s all about the substance of the argument.  Check all my posts, I’ve never labeled anyone.  And for that matter I’ve never criticized Trump for misspellings, or gaffes.  That’s for weak fucks.
> 
> ...


First Black President. One of the best teleprompter readers of all time. Began the economic recovery. Sports Enthusiast. Master manipulator. That’s it. He is what turned me middle

I voted for him in 2008. I did not vote for him in 2012 but I did not vote for Romney either.

Bill Clinton was the Democrat Policy President of our Lifetime. I look at Trump as the Republican equal. Excellent policy, horrible person.

You don’t want to debate me with your cookie cutter Conservative opinion. That’s why the “silent majority” is so pissed off, calling every conservative a racist when it couldn’t be further from the truth like @EOTL does.

As much as I can’t stand Trump as a person, he has gotten more done all while being under non-stop attack by the media. It’s disgusting. I honestly believe he is not racist rather he says stupid stupid things that portrays him as a moron. I vote on policy and not personality hence I will be voting for Trump again in 2020.

Lastly, you can bring up any fact, statistic, or policy and I will happily research and agree or disagree. If a debate is needed, I will oblige. Just remember, facts/statistics over ride opinion.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Dumb ass bitch had it coming.  Why is she hanging out in the hood with known hoodrats?  She should know only bad things happen in the hood. Does she not watch the news.  She put herself in that position.  Plus she was moving when they were shouting at her "stop resisting," "stop resisting." As for the kid, why is the kid "obstructing" a beat down.  Kid deserved a beat down for "obstruction of hood justice."


A real joking matter.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Plus I would add to the alt right the crazy christian interpretation of the bible like that snake pastor that died after his 9th bite.


Yeah, I’m just playing the generalization game. I could break down each group for sure. Each group has its own demographic, lol.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Another one bites the dust.   Why did you change the subject?  And really, it’s all about labels for you? The first sign of a weak argument is somebody who starts off labeling somebody as a lib, dem, alt right, etc.
> 
> Substance my friend, it’s all about the substance of the argument.  Check all my posts, I’ve never labeled anyone.  And for that matter I’ve never criticized Trump for misspellings, or gaffes.  That’s for weak fucks.
> 
> ...


I'll jump in, first let's establish intellectual honesty...can we agree that Biden shows clear signs of dementia?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> First Black President. One of the best teleprompter readers of all time. Began the economic recovery. Sports Enthusiast. Master manipulator. That’s it. He is what turned me middle
> 
> I voted for him in 2008. I did not vote for him in 2012 but I did not vote for Romney either.
> 
> ...


He was NOT the first black president in North America.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I dunno.  A handful of more categories for your consideration.  The Dumb Right is divided into the true Dumb Right (think Hannity and Trump can do no wrong) and the Bargain with the Devil Right (think Tucker Carlson and that is critical of Trump but thinks the left is worse or evil).  Similarly, your Dumb Left divides into the true Dumb Left (Kimmel who thinks the left is not only great and can do no wrong but also that the right is evil) and the Establishment Left (Pelosi who are in it more for themselves and the power).  You left out the libertarians, the blue dogs (what's left of em), and the Never Trump Neocons (Megan McCain and Bill Kristol...you can't put them in the critical thinking conservatives because they are motivated by a blind hatred of Trump, even when he stumbles into something that's actually smart).   I was probably an Informed Swing Voter, am now a Critical Thinking Conservatie, but am moving into the Bargain with the Devil Right.


Honestly, Tucker is the only program I watch on Fox anymore. If Gutfield could have just a 10 minute monologue show, I would watch that too. Hate Tucker all you want but even Liberals I know enjoy his show. I might not agree with all of it, but most seems like basic common sense. I do tend to research his talking points as well. No question he tends to twist things as well but not as much as others.

My wife is an Alt Righter. I usually have to direct her to change the channel when I get home. I don’t want to hear the biased crap.

I also tune into Cuomo and Maddow every once in a while. Cuomo is the Liberal Tucker. Maddow drives me up a wall as she twists way too many things and the propaganda gives me a good idea on what to research. Hannity is the conservative equal to Maddow. Don Lemon is the worst though. There is no equal to the bias he puts out. Maddow is close but Lemon is in a class all by itself. Laura G. is lightweight Alt Right compared to the opposite Lemon.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> He was NOT the first black president in North America.


Don't think he said North America.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> He was NOT the first black president in North America.


Are you really trying to pull the John Hansen card?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> Honestly, Tucker is the only program I watch on Fox anymore. If Gutfield could have just a 10 minute monologue show, I would watch that too. Hate Tucker all you want but even Liberals I know enjoy his show. I might not agree with all of it, but most seems like basic common sense. I do tend to research his talking points as well. No question he tends to twist things as well but not as much as others.
> 
> My wife is an Alt Righter. I usually have to direct her to change the channel when I get home. I don’t want to hear the biased crap.
> 
> I also tune into Cuomo and Maddow every once in a while. Cuomo is the Liberal Tucker. Maddow drives me up a wall as she twists way too many things and the propaganda gives me a good idea on what to research. Hannity is the conservative equal to Maddow. Don Lemon is the worst though. There is no equal to the bias he puts out. Maddow is close but Lemon is in a class all by itself. Laura G. is lightweight Alt Right compared to the opposite Lemon.


What about The Story with Martha?


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> He was NOT the first black president in North America.





MARsSPEED said:


> Are you really trying to pull the John Hansen card?


I should also say that’s like me saying Democrats founded Slavery, KKK, and Jim Crow. Oh wait...


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> Honestly, Tucker is the only program I watch on Fox anymore. If Gutfield could have just a 10 minute monologue show, I would watch that too. Hate Tucker all you want but even Liberals I know enjoy his show. I might not agree with all of it, but most seems like basic common sense. I do tend to research his talking points as well. No question he tends to twist things as well but not as much as others.
> 
> My wife is an Alt Righter. I usually have to direct her to change the channel when I get home. I don’t want to hear the biased crap.
> 
> I also tune into Cuomo and Maddow every once in a while. Cuomo is the Liberal Tucker. Maddow drives me up a wall as she twists way too many things and the propaganda gives me a good idea on what to research. Hannity is the conservative equal to Maddow. Don Lemon is the worst though. There is no equal to the bias he puts out. Maddow is close but Lemon is in a class all by itself. Laura G. is lightweight Alt Right compared to the opposite Lemon.


Tucker has been killing it as of late, he's all one needs to watch.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> What about The Story with Martha?


That came after my time. I heard she is closer to center.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> I should also say that’s like me saying Democrats founded Slavery, KKK, and Jim Crow. Oh wait...


I know it seems obvious, but following the rules of the woke...why has there been no call for Democrats to change their name? or removal of everything Robert Byrd? Funny how that works.


----------



## ToonArmy (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Errr....my folks are from Peru and Mexico.  We're proud of our culture and la raza, we still speak the lengua, my folks still go to all the local restaurants and hangout with their generation and reminsice about the old days, they still wave their flags during the world cup.  They miss their homelands.  But they were part of the educated elite over there and still fled their shitholes.  Now granted, my father wouldn't describe his country as a shithole.  He left that to my brothers and me when we visited the joint when I was 6 and we all came down with something serious we suspect was cholera. He reserves the term "shithole" for Chile.


Nolberto Solano former Newcastle United player best Peruvian player all time. Imo 

Good Peruvian restaurant in Santa Ana 17th and Ross called El Cortijo. And a great soccer store a block away called Soccer Store


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> What about The Story with Martha?


All this politics is my new sport.  This is what old men used to do in the old days before ESPN and youth sports.  I used to listen to Rome when i sold yellow page advertising in the late 90s and early 2000s.  Rome saved me.  The rejection was brutal.


----------



## ToonArmy (Jul 17, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> All this politics is my new sport.  This is what old men used to do in the old days before ESPN and youth sports.  I used to listen to Rome when i sold yellow page advertising in the late 90s and early 2000s.  Rome saved me.  The rejection was brutal.


Your not spicoli anymore your silk brah


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)

ToonArmy said:


> Your not spicoli anymore your silk brah


Silk and Doc Mike....lol


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 17, 2020)




----------



## msoccerm (Jul 17, 2020)

Do you really think Biden would be a candidate if he actually had dementia?


----------



## Justafan (Jul 17, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> A real joking matter.


You really thought I was serious? Outlaw knows I was being facetious and he knows I got him, hence his “your speaking my language.”

The telling thing here is why you’re calling me out and don’t call Outlaw out for saying the EXACT same thing about Black shooting victims.  They all had it coming for one reason or another.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 17, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> I'll jump in, first let's establish intellectual honesty...can we agree that Biden shows clear signs of dementia?


Ha, you probably thought I would say no, but of course he‘s not ALL there. He looks and talks a little better now than the early days in his basement. That had me really worried. I’m less worried now

But as long as he’s standing and breathing, he’s got a real good shot.  

And I know the follow up question, are you really going to vote for a president with early stages of dementia?  Yes.  You voted for Trump for similar reasons.  Policy will be set by those around him.  

As I mentioned before I can acknowledge Trumps positives, yet his negatives far outweigh the positives. The disaster we’re experiencing after COVID arrived is all on Trump. It’s called scoreboard. 

In the war against the invisible enemy, there is only one commander in chief and in his most important role and responsibility he choked beyond belief and put the onus on his 50 kids.

Second reason, he’s deliberately pitting Americans against each other and ultimately we ALL lose when we’re at each other’s throats. He’s made America so ghetto It’s not funny.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 17, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> First Black President. One of the best teleprompter readers of all time. Began the economic recovery. Sports Enthusiast. Master manipulator. That’s it. He is what turned me middle
> 
> I voted for him in 2008. I did not vote for him in 2012 but I did not vote for Romney either.
> 
> ...


I only asked for positives and you couldn’t help yourself by taking some shots at Obama, but that’s fine. At least you listed one positive, “began the economic recovery,” so I’ll give you credit. He handed Trump an unemployment rate of 4.7, and took the stock market from 5k in 2008 and handed it to Trump at 20k.

Most people would also add Osama Bin Laden.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

Denver School District has now reversed course and after being pressured by the teacher's union is going remote only.  The entire state of Colorado, despite reopening, has averaged less than 7 deaths per day since June 1.  If that's the standards the unions are holding up, we aren't opening up the schools until a vaccine, whenever that is.  Anyone else see a trend?


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 17, 2020)

San Francisco just got added to the watch list this afternoon.  I was wondering about them and why they weren't on the initial list but announced a shut down around the same time as La and San Diego.  Marin now too.  Most of the Bay area it seems except San Mateo.


----------



## Fact (Jul 17, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Tucker has been killing it as of late, he's all one needs to watch.


You should watch Glenn Beck.  While I don’t agree with all his preaching, he provides all the sources for his show so you can do your own fact checking.


----------



## Fact (Jul 17, 2020)

msoccerm said:


> Do you really think Biden would be a candidate if he actually had dementia?


Yes !!


----------



## Fact (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Denver School District has now reversed course and after being pressured by the teacher's union is going remote only.  The entire state of Colorado, despite reopening, has averaged less than 7 deaths per day since June 1.  If that's the standards the unions are holding up, we aren't opening up the schools until a vaccine, whenever that is.  Anyone else see a trend?


Either until a vaccine or November.


----------



## Fact (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> San Francisco just got added to the watch list this afternoon.  I was wondering about them and why they weren't on the initial list but announced a shut down around the same time as La and San Diego.  Marin now too.  Most of the Bay area it seems except San Mateo.


San Mateo will be added Tuesday.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Hello, Mexico, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Jamaica, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico . . . The problem is not that they are 3rd world countries or "shitholes," it's that Trump, and apparently you, think that all the people coming from there are "shitholes."  And just as an FYI, 3rd world status does not mean it's a "shithole" culture.


Actually all the places you mentioned are places people vacation.

Those are not the s hole countries.

I have been to each one you mentioned be it work or pleasure.

There are 3rd world countries that are not s hole. Granted the ones you mentioned have issues. But they are are a far cry vs Somalia, Syria, Afghanistan, Haiti, Sudan...etc. Truth be told there are 3rd world.. and then bottom of 3rd world.

So try again.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Errr....my folks are from Peru and Mexico.  We're proud of our culture and la raza, we still speak the lengua, my folks still go to all the local restaurants and hangout with their generation and reminsice about the old days, they still wave their flags during the world cup.  They miss their homelands.  But they were part of the educated elite over there and still fled their shitholes.  Now granted, my father wouldn't describe his country as a shithole.  He left that to my brothers and me when we visited the joint when I was 6 and we all came down with something serious we suspect was cholera. He reserves the term "shithole" for Chile.


I love Peru and Mexico. My wife is from Mexico. And the first time (out of many) going to Peru was a dream come true. Especially going to Cusco and Macchu Picchu.

Both those countries have issues...but both don't fall into anywhere close to let's say the Somalia example.

I get the Chile reference.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 17, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> p.s. you guys want to see a good soccer series how soccer really operates in most of the world, during quarantine watch "Club de Cuervos" on Netflix.  You want to see how racist the Mexicans can be and how they really and truly regard Central America as a shithole, watch the spin off "La Balada de Jugo Chavez"...they use far worse terms than shithole.
> 
> p.p.s. let's not forget while we are all distracted with our statutes and school closures, the Chinese are shipping off the Uigars in trains to concentration camps a la 1945 redux.


In the theme of Mexican racists...when I lived in Costa Rica you should see how they treated the Nicas and the Hondurans.

The Ticos were not happy with their border situation.


----------



## tjinaz (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> In the theme of Mexican racists...when I lived in Costa Rica you should see how they treated the Nicas and the Hondurans.
> 
> The Ticos were not happy with their border situation.


That brings up a funny situation.  Seems like in the middle of the pandemic mexico became much more tolerant of walls when our rates were higher than theirs.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 17, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Cases yes. Notice deaths are not following along with that. That is why the press now talks cases and not deaths.
> 
> Spain is now starting to shut down Barcelona and the surrounding areas again as of yesterday or today.
> 
> ...


Yes, I also found it odd that CNN has a story about NY, NJ, CN, MA "taming" COVID. Not once does it mention the likelihood that a significant part of their "success" is that they failed miserably containing COVID earlier and many have immunity due to antibodies. The omission is stunningly misleading.








						'From worst to first': These states have tamed coronavirus, even after reopening. Here's how they're doing it, and why they can't let up
					

While more than half the states have paused or backtracked reopenings due to increased Covid-19, several states have decreasing rates of infection, hospitalizations and deaths -- paving the way for full economic reopenings.




					www.cnn.com
				




Consider the following estimates of antibodies and how it will effect transmission.

NYC: Estimate 20% have antibodies (14% statewide)








						NY releases figures estimating 14 percent in state, 20 percent in NYC have had COVID-19
					

Preliminary data shows about 13.9 percent of the population of New York state — about 2.7 million people — have at some point been infected with the coronavirus.About 3,000 people were randoml…




					thehill.com
				




AZ: (June 13) 3.1% estimated to have antibodies








						Getting Answers: AZ percentage of positive COVID-19 tests more than double percentage of positive antibody tests
					

Why is the percentage of people testing positive for the coronavirus more than double the percentage of people testing positive for coronavirus antibodies?




					kvoa.com
				




Estimated % of population that has antibodies
NYC: 20%
NY: 14%
AZ: 3.1%

From the other thread, it states that
R > 1.1 it is accelerating growth
R between 0.9 and 1.1 is reasonably stable
R < 0.9 is decelerating
where R is the average number of people an infected person will infect.

Below is an example of how comparing areas with very different proportions of people with antibodies can lead to a misleading conclusion about how well or poorly a region is containing the spread.

To isolate the effect of those with antibodies, assume that all 3 areas are doing equally well in their mitigation - mask wearing, distancing, etc. - and the R value is 1.2 for a population that doesn't have any infections - well above the accelerating growth threshold of 1.1. Below is the calculation of the effective R which will be lower as some people have immunity.

To find the "effective R", take R, 1.2, and multiply it by the portion of people susceptible to COVID (0.8 in NYC, 0.86 in NY state and 0.969 in AZ)

For NYC
0.96 = 1.2*(0.8)

For the State of NY
1.032 = 1.2*(0.86)

For AZ
1.163 =1.2*(0.969)

Both NYC (0.96) and the state of NY (1.032) would have effective R values well within the stable range but AZ  (1.163) is well over the accelerating growth threshold of 1.1. The only difference is the larger number of cases NY already had.

There are definitely other factors, but not mentioning this as a factor is a disservice.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Tough guy can’t pull the trigger.  Even your professor knew you were a phony.


Pull the trigger on what?  Did you get a head injury in the exercise yard, retard?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Another one bites the dust.   Why did you change the subject?  And really, it’s all about labels for you? The first sign of a weak argument is somebody who starts off labeling somebody as a lib, dem, alt right, etc.
> 
> Substance my friend, it’s all about the substance of the argument.  Check all my posts, I’ve never labeled anyone.  And for that matter I’ve never criticized Trump for misspellings, or gaffes.  That’s for weak fucks.
> 
> ...


His dick might be bigger than his wife's?  He was smart enough to move to a white neighborhood when he retired?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Weak. Why didn’t you address what I said? You completely changed the topic because you know I’m right. You keep pounding the table outlaw.


Nobody knows what the fuck you're babbling about.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

MacDre said:


> He was NOT the first black president in North America.


Obama is half white.  His white mother had to raise him, though.  Shocker... I know.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 17, 2020)

Justafan said:


> You really thought I was serious? Outlaw knows I was being facetious and he knows I got him, hence his “your speaking my language.”
> 
> The telling thing here is why you’re calling me out and don’t call Outlaw out for saying the EXACT same thing about Black shooting victims.  They all had it coming for one reason or another.


The only thing you've got is anal warts and a low balance on your commissary account.

You DON'T think black shooting "victims" had it coming?  Tell me, moron, who was innocent?


----------



## Lionel Hutz (Jul 17, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Yes, I also found it odd that CNN has a story about NY, NJ, CN, MA "taming" COVID. Not once does it mention the likelihood that a significant part of their "success" is that they failed miserably containing COVID earlier and many have immunity due to antibodies. The omission is stunningly misleading.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Out of curiosity --- why did you choose R0 = 1.2 for your calculations? 

Also, what do you mean  when you say "R value is 1.2 for a population that doesn't have any infections - well above the accelerating growth threshold of 1.1"?


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 18, 2020)

Lionel Hutz said:


> Out of curiosity --- why did you choose R0 = 1.2 for your calculations?
> 
> Also, what do you mean  when you say "R value is 1.2 for a population that doesn't have any infections - well above the accelerating growth threshold of 1.1"?


I could have selected any value for the example, but I intentionally selected the value of R0 = 1.2 to demonstrate how the number of previous infections can make the difference between a stable situation where infections are not growing and a situation where there is accelerating growth. The point being, it was a mistake for CNN to leave this out of the consideration of why those states are doing well now. Again, it's not the only factor, but it is a significant one.

Yes, I am referring to R0 when I write "R value is 1.2 ...". It is assumed to be for a population that does not have any resistance to the virus. In other words, if you get enough viral load, you get it. In practice, R0 is the number of people who will receive enough of a viral load to catch the virus from an infected person. Technically, anything above 1 is accelerating growth and anything below 1 is decelerating growth. In the model shown on the thread below, they use the following to ranges

From the other thread (link below), it states that
R > 1.1 it is accelerating growth
R between 0.9 and 1.1 is reasonably stable
R < 0.9 is decelerating
where R is the average number of people an infected person will infect.






						CA County by County Covid-19 Key Metrics: Rate of CV-19 Spread over Time and Hospitalizations as % of Total Care Capacity
					

Here's a solid tool posted from state of CA to status on a county by county basis. https://calcat.covid19.ca.gov/cacovidmodels/  Can look up status on the bug on a county by county basis - i.e. is the spread accelerating, stable or decelerating - as well as current # of hospitalizations as % of...



					www.socalsoccer.com
				




Maybe that was enough to clarify what I was trying to say, but if not, maybe a decent example will clarify it. Let me know if this one is decent.

Example:
Consider an R value of 1.2 with 10 people infected.
Also, assume the only way you can avoid getting the virus is if you have antibodies.
Answer the questions: How many new infections can we expect and what is the "effective" R in the population?

In this case, the R = 1.2, meaning, the average number of people an infected person will infect is 1.2. Since we have 10 infected people, we can expect them to infect 10*1.2 = 12 people in the population. However, what it really means is that these 10 people will transmit enough virus to infect 12 others who don't have the virus. So, R = 1.2 means that 12 people get coughed on by the 10 infected folks. Now, consider two different populations where these 12 people get coughed on.

(a) Population 1: No one in the population has antibodies.
In this case, no one in the population can avoid getting the virus. All 12 people that get coughed on get the virus. The "effective" R will be 12/10 = 1.2, the same as the initial R (known as R naught). You can see the new infections, 12 is greater than the original number of infections, 10. This is a case of accelerating growth. Those 12 go out and infect around 14 or 15 (12*1.2 = 14.4) and so on. This gets ugly. But, it doesn't go on forever because eventually, sick people cough on people with antibodies who won't get sick, such as in the next population.

(b) Population 2: 1/3 of the population has antibodies
In this case, 1 out of the 3 people to have antibodies. So, of the 12 people that get coughed on, we'd expect 4 of them to have antibodies. Those 4 don't get sick. So, only 8 get infected. This is fewer than the original number of infections and the rate of spread is decelerating. The "effective R" will be 8/10 = 0.8. If this continues, the virus is soon (eventually) extinguished. (Herd Immunity)


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 18, 2020)

Matt Drudge online info is so negative.  BTW, RIP John Lewis.  He should be up at the top of the Drudge report.  
He should call it the, "Dire Straights Report"  

*NEW PEAK NOW: USA 77,638 INFECTIONS IN PAST 24 HOURS...
Deaths rise and rise...
With antibodies fading fast, vaccine hopes fade, too...
Mistrust Could Imperil Widespread Immunity...
Scientists identify 6 types of coronavirus with increasing severity levels...
Man leaves hospital after 100 day fight...
Doctor who survived bewildered by public disregard...
Nation divided over mask wearing and schools reopening...
Rancor between scientists and Trump allies threatens response...
GOP senators sound alarm as cases surge in home states...
Republicans eye sweeping shield from liability...*


----------



## watfly (Jul 18, 2020)

Let's review, the following organizations/medical professionals say that kid's should be back at school physically because the other risks of not being in class outweigh the risks of Covid:



			https://www.nationalacademies.org/news/2020/07/schools-should-prioritize-reopening-in-fall-2020-especially-for-grades-k-5-while-weighing-risks-and-benefits
		




			https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/clinical-guidance/covid-19-planning-considerations-return-to-in-person-education-in-schools/
		










						Expert: Children should return to school in the fall
					

Joseph Allen, assistant professor of exposure assessment science at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, believes that schools can safely reopen in the fall during the COVID-19 pandemic i…




					www.hsph.harvard.edu
				




The youth services organization that I'm involved with has been open for a couple of months with dozen of kids running around all day long in the clubhouses. The risk of exposure is as great or greater than schools.  We take common sense precautions and haven't had any issues with Covid.  Our employees were excited to come back to work when the clubhouses were reopened, but then our employees aren't unionized.  When online school resumes in the fall our staff will be helping kids with their homework in our class rooms without hesitation.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 18, 2020)

Fact said:


> You should watch Glenn Beck.  While I don’t agree with all his preaching, he provides all the sources for his show so you can do your own fact checking.


Are you clowns are aware that those shows are classified as “entertainment” and NOT “news?”


----------



## MacDre (Jul 18, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Obama is half white.  His white mother had to raise him, though.  Shocker... I know.


Come on @outlaw I’m very disappointed with this response because I thought you knew me better than that pal; that argument is old and I have moved on.  So, on to the next history lesson pal:








						Vicente Guerrero (1783-1831) •
					

Image Ownership: Public Domain Vicente Guerrero was born in the small village of Tixla in the state of Guerrero.  His parents were Pedro Guerrero, an African Mexican and Guadalupe Saldana, an Indian. Vicente was of humble origins. In his youth he worked as a mule … Read MoreVicente Guerrero...




					www.blackpast.org


----------



## Sandypk (Jul 18, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> There is a Stanford study about LA charter schools serving mainly minority students. They found educational outcomes were superior to the local public schools in the area.
> 
> I for one am all for giving parents and kids the chance/choice of getting out of unaccountable failing government run schools.
> 
> Do we want to help people succeed? It starts with a good education.


Can’t Charter schools pick and choose who they enroll, much like Private schools?  
And the parents are more involved and find a better school to enroll their kids into, such as the Charter school.  These kids
were probably already higher performing in the public school setting.  Parent support and involvement is the difference, not the school setting.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 18, 2020)

Sandypk said:


> Can’t Charter schools pick and choose who they enroll, much like Private schools?
> And the parents are more involved and find a better school to enroll their kids into, such as the Charter school.  These kids
> were probably already higher performing in the public school setting.  Parent support and involvement is the difference, not the school setting.


Looks like “school choice” = de facto segregation and cherry-picking.


----------



## Sandypk (Jul 18, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Looks like “school choice” = de facto segregation and cherry-picking.


Parent involvement.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 18, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Ha, you probably thought I would say no, but of course he‘s not ALL there. He looks and talks a little better now than the early days in his basement. That had me really worried. I’m less worried now
> 
> But as long as he’s standing and breathing, he’s got a real good shot.
> 
> ...


I see. Would you trust an Airline Pilot or Surgeon...or how about a financial manager or even you kids school bus driver, if they displayed Biden's current condition? Me neither. 

I watched my father, who lived with us his final five years, progress with dementia. I sat in on all his appointments and tests with experts...and trust me, Biden is, and has been, progressing along the spectrum of dementia...it only gets worse. I actually feel sorry for him...but also feel disgust towards those around him, especially his wife, who knowingly prop him up and drag him through this sad show.

Rationalize it however you need to...but don't expect rational folks to play along and pretend that voting for a candidate for US President on the dementia spectrum is wise or intelligent...rather, it clearly shows pure political blindness and hatred.

Since you brought up "scoreboards"...Biden has a 47+ year scoreboard full of bigotry, China, Russia and Iran hand-holding, and Trade and economic destruction...in fact, I can't think of any meaningful wins. 

Although you did acknowledge a couple Trump positives, which I respect, I noticed you missed some key ones...so here, I've provided a few more:

The Accomplishments of President Trump IGNITING A HISTORIC ECONOMIC BOOM: President Trump’s pro-growth policies are unleashing economic growth and providing opportunities to workers across the country. · Due to President Trump’s pro-growth policies, real gross domestic product (GDP) growth exceeded 3 percent over the last four quarters. · Real GDP grew at annual rates of 3.4 percent in the third quarter of 2018 and 4.2 percent in the second quarter. · More than 5 million jobs have been created since President Trump’s election and the unemployment rate remains below 4 percent. · This is the eighth time this year that the unemployment rate has been below 4 percent. · Prior to this year, the unemployment rate had fallen below 4 percent only five times since 1970. · The unemployment rate for African-Americans in May fell to 5.9 percent, which is the lowest rate on record. · Asian and Hispanic-American unemployment rates have reached record lows this year. · Initial weekly jobless claims have hit a nearly 50-year low under President Trump. · Under President Trump, job openings outnumber the unemployed for the first time on record. · Recently, more than two-thirds of Americans rated “now” as a good time to find a quality job, tying a record high in a poll by Gallup. · Americans are seeing more money in their pockets thanks to the booming economy. · In recent months, workers have seen their largest nominal year over year wage growth in nearly a decade. · In 2017, real median household income rose to a post-recession high. · President Trump’s policies are helping to lift Americans out of poverty. · African-American and Hispanic-American poverty rates reached record lows of 21.2 percent and 18.3 percent, respectively, in 2017. · Since the election, 4.6 million Americans have been lifted off of food stamps. · Consumer confidence has soared under President Trump, recently reaching an 18-year high. · President Trump is delivering on his promise to bring back American manufacturing. · The National Association of Manufacturers’ Outlook Index had the highest annual average in its history over the past year. · Manufacturing added 284,000 jobs in 2018, the most added in a year since 1997. · Small Business optimism jumped to a record high under President Trump, according to a survey by the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB). · The NFIB’s Small Business Optimism Index broke a 35-year record in August. · President Trump signed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act into law, ushering in the largest package of tax cuts and reforms in American history. · These tax cuts are delivering real results for American families and workers. · More than 6 million workers received tax cut bonuses and benefits. · More than 100 utility companies have announced lower rates. · President Trump is ensuring American workers receive the training and education they need to compete in today’s economy. · President Trump signed an executive order establishing the National Council for the American worker. · More than 185 companies and associations have signed our “Pledge to America’s Workers,” promising more than 6.4 million new training and career opportunities. · The President signed legislation that reauthorized the Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education Act, making more than $1 billion available for career education programs. · President Trump has prioritized the economic empowerment of women. · The women’s unemployment rate recently reached its lowest rate in 65 years. · The Small Business Administration lent approximately $500 million more in capital to women-owned businesses in 2017 compared to 2016. · The Administration helped launch the Women Entrepreneurs Finance Initiative, which could leverage more than $1 billion to support women entrepreneurs. · Biggest tax cuts and reforms in American history by signing the Tax Cuts and Jobs act into law/ o Provided more than $5.5 trillion in gross tax cuts, nearly 60 percent of which will go to families. o Increased the exemption for the death tax to help save Family Farms & Small Business. o Nearly doubled the standard deduction for individuals and families. o Enabled vast majority of American families will be able to file their taxes on a single page by claiming the standard deduction. o Doubled the child tax credit to help lessen the financial burden of raising a family. o Lowered America’s corporate tax rate from the highest in the developed world to allow American businesses to compete and win. o Small businesses can now deduct 20 percent of their business income. o Cut dozens of special interest tax breaks and closed loopholes for the wealthy. · 9 in 10 American workers are expected see an increase in their paychecks thanks to the tax cuts, according to the Treasury Department. · More than 6 million of American workers have received wage increases, bonuses, and increased benefits thanks to tax cuts. · Over 100 utility companies have lowered electric, gas, or water rates thanks to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. · Ernst & Young found 89 percent of companies planned to increase worker compensation thanks to the Trump tax cuts. · Established opportunity zones to spur investment in left behind communities. ROLLING BACK RED TAPE: President Trump is rolling back costly regulations that have burdened hardworking Americans and stifled innovation. · President Trump has followed through on and exceeded his promise to roll back two regulations for every new one created. · President Trump’s Administration surpassed the 2:1 ratio in 2018, eliminating 12 regulations for every new one in 2018. · In 2017, the Trump Administration eliminated 22 regulations for every new one. · Since taking office, President Trump’s deregulation efforts have achieved $33 billion in regulatory savings. · In 2018, these efforts alone delivered $23 billion in benefits to American families and business owners. · President Trump has signed 16 Congressional Review Act resolutions into law, eliminating burdensome Obama-era rules and regulations. · President Trump announced U.S. withdrawal from the Paris Climate Agreement, which would have harmed America’s economy and cost American workers millions of jobs. · President Trump signed an executive order to streamline the permitting process for infrastructure projects with a goal of cutting approval time from up to 10 years to an average of 2 years. · President Trump signed legislation to roll back burdensome Dodd-Frank regulations that harmed community banks. NEGOTIATING BETTER DEALS FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE: President Trump is negotiating fair and balanced trade deals that protect American industries and workers. · President Trump negotiated a new trade agreement between the United States, Canada, and Mexico to replace the disastrous and outdated North American Free Trade Agreement. · Once enacted by Congress, the United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement (USMCA) will better serve the interests of American workers and businesses. · USMCA will incentivize billions of dollars in auto and auto parts production in the United States and create a freer and fairer market for American agriculture. · USMCA also includes the strongest-ever provisions on labor, environmental, digital, and intellectual property protections to reflect the realities of the 21st century economy.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 18, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Ha, you probably thought I would say no...
> 
> Unfortunately this site will not all the content of Trump's accomplishments in one shot...so, here you go:
> 
> ...


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 18, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Ha, you probably thought I would say no, but of course he‘s not ALL there. He looks and talks a little better now than the early days in his basement. That had me really worried. I’m less worried now


Con't:

Last year, the DOJ announced the largest healthcare fraud takedown in history, arresting more than 120 defendants with opioid-related crimes. · The President launched a Safer Prescribing Plan that seeks to cut nationwide opioid prescription fills by one-third within three years. · The Administration has led four National Prescription Drug Take-Back Days, collecting a record-breaking 1,837 tons of expired and unneeded prescription drugs. STANDING UP FOR THE SANCTITY OF LIFE AND PROTECTING RELIGIOUS LIBERTY: The President is committed to defending the right to life and religious liberty. · President Trump is the first president to address the March for Life live. · Shortly after taking office, President Trump reinstated and expanded the Mexico City Policy, blocking $9 billion in aid from funding abortion internationally. · President Trump defunded a United Nations (UN) agency for colluding with China’s brutal program of forced abortion and sterilization. · The Administration withdrew guidance that constrained State’s ability to exclude familyplanning providers that provide abortion services from the Medicaid program. · The Administration formed a new Conscience and Religious Freedom Division to protect religious freedom. · Expressed strong support for the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, which would stop abortions after 20 weeks. · The Trump Administration proposed new regulations to ensure Title X family planning funding does not go to projects that perform, support, or refer patients for abortion. · The Trump Administration issued regulations establishing new or expanded exemptions from the Obamacare contraceptive mandate based on religious beliefs or moral convictions. · In 2017, the President issued an executive order to promote free speech and religious liberty. This helped faith-based groups give healthcare coverage to 13.7 million Americans. KEEPING AMERICAN COMMUNITIES SAFE: President Trump has made clear that his first responsibility is to protect the safety and security of Americans. · Federal Bureau of Investigation data shows violent crime decreased under President Trump’s watch in 2017, following two consecutive years of increases. · United States Attorneys indicted the most violent criminals on record last year. · Last year, the DOJ announced nearly $100 million in grant funding to hire hundreds of additional law enforcement officers. · President Trump is cracking down on the vile MS-13 gang that has brought violence to communities across the country. · In 2017, the DOJ worked with international partners to arrest and charge approximately 4,000 MS-13 members. · Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s (ICE) Homeland Security Investigations arrested nearly 800 MS-13 members and associates in FY 2017, an 83 percent increase from the prior year. · President Trump signed an executive order to restore State and local law enforcement’s access to surplus equipment that can be used to help keep our communities safe. · President Trump enhanced and updated the Project Safe Neighborhoods program. · The DOJ announced the creation of the National Public Safety Partnership in 2017, launching a cooperative initiative with cities to reduce violent crime. · President Trump signed legislation to improve the Federal firearm background check system and keep guns out of the hands of dangerous criminals. · President Trump signed the First Step Act, which includes bipartisan reforms to make our Federal justice system fairer and our communities safer. · The First Step Act will help prepare inmates to successfully rejoin society, reducing recidivism and improving community safety. · This legislation includes commonsense sentencing reforms that will make our Federal justice system fairer while keeping violent criminals and sex offenders off our streets. · Trump’s Department of Health and Human Services issued a rule to align grant regulations with current nondiscrimination laws. The announcement stresses that “the federal government [should] not infringe on religious freedom in its operation of HHS grant programs and [seeks to] address the impact of regulatory actions on small entities.” The move reverses an Obama-era rule and allow religious adoption agencies that turn away gay couples to receive federal funding. The goal of the new rule is to directly aid faith-based adoption agencies, which often receive federal grants and have been defending themselves against accusations of discrimination. PROTECTING THE INNOCENT: President Donald J. Trump is taking a stand against human trafficking, dedicating our Government’s full resources towards fighting this repulsive crime. · The President signed the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act (S. 1862) which tightens criteria for whether countries are meeting standards for eliminating trafficking. · He signed the Allow States and Victims to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act (H.R. 1865), overnight this shut down the most common websites used to sell and abuse victims in America. · President Trump signed the Frederick Douglass Trafficking Victims Prevention and Protection Reauthorization Act, authorizing $430 million to fight sex and labor trafficking. He also signed the Abolish Human Trafficking Act, which strengthens programs supporting survivors and resources for combating modern slavery. · The President signed the Trafficking Victims Protection Act (S. 1312), establishing new prevention, prosecution, and collaboration initiatives to bring human traffickers to justice. · In September 2017, Ivanka Trump and Deputy Secretary of State Sullivan joined more than 20 world leaders at the United Nations General Assembly for a global call to end modern slavery and to announce the State Department’s $25 million grant to the Global Fund to End Modern Slavery. · In February 2017, the President signed Executive Order 13773, “Enforcing Federal Law with Respect to Transnational Criminal Organizations and Preventing International Trafficking,” which directed the United States government to identify, interdict, disrupt, and dismantle the transnational criminal organizations that engage in human trafficking. ENFORCING OUR LAWS AND SECURING OUR BORDERS: From the first day of his Administration, President Trump has worked to uphold the rule of law and secure our borders. · President Trump released an immigration framework that would fix our broken immigration system through merit-based reform and provide the resources needed to secure our border. · This includes closing the legal loopholes that enable illegal immigration, ending chain migration, and eliminating the visa lottery. · President Trump secured funding to begin building the wall and construction has already begun in areas along the southern border. · President Trump deployed the military to assist in securing the southern border. · President Trump and his Administration took action to require aliens seeking asylum to go to a port of entry to make their claim. · Customs and Border Protection (CBP) apprehended 17,256 criminals and 1,019 gang members in FY 2018. · ICE’s Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO) arrested 158,581 aliens in FY 2018, an 11 percent increase from FY 2017. · 90 percent of those arrested had criminal convictions, pending charges, or had been issued final orders of removal. · ICE ERO increased removals by 13 percent in FY 2018 to 256,086, the majority of whom were convicted criminals. · Removals of convicted criminal aliens increased by 14 percent from FY 2017. · Nearly 6,000 known or suspected gang members were removed in FY 2018, a 9 percent increase from FY 2017. · The Department of Justice prosecuted a record number of criminal immigration offenses in FY 2018, and increased the number of prosecutions for illegal entry by 84 percent over FY 2017. · Immigration courts are now completing more cases than at any point since 2011. · President Trump kept his promise by launching the office of Victims of Immigration Crime Engagement (VOICE) within the Department of Homeland Security. · The Administration has more than doubled the number of jurisdictions participating in the 287(g) program, which enables State and local law enforcement to aid immigration enforcement. · President Trump has made our country safer by ordering the enhanced vetting of individuals entering from countries that do not meet our security standards. · These procedures were upheld in a June 2018 Supreme Court ruling.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 18, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Ha, you probably thought I would say no, but of course he‘s not ALL there. He looks and talks a little better now than the early days in his basement. That had me really worried. I’m less worried now


...and more:

Con't:

REBUILDING AMERICA’S MILITARY FORCE: President Trump is rebuilding our military and defending America’s interests across the world. · President Trump ended the devastating defense cuts of the past Administration and has secured historic investments to rebuild our military. · President Trump signed legislation providing $700 billion for defense in FY 2018 and $716 billion in FY 2019. · President Trump is supporting America’s men and women in uniform, securing the largest military pay raise in nearly a decade. · The President issued a new National Security Strategy to keep America safe from all threats. · The Administration has also released new strategies specific to cybersecurity, biodefense, counterterrorism, and weapons of mass destruction terrorism. · President Trump directed the first whole-of-government assessment of United States manufacturing and defense supply chains since the Eisenhower Administration. · President Trump initiated the 2018 Nuclear Posture Review, improving United States deterrence policy and existing capabilities to counter nuclear threats. · President Trump empowered our military commanders with broad authority in order to take the fight to ISIS, and the results are clear. · ISIS has lost nearly all of its territory, more than half of which has been liberated since President Trump took office. · All of ISIS’ territory in Iraq was successfully liberated. · ISIS’ self-proclaimed capital city Raqqah has been recaptured. · ISIS’ territorial caliphate has been defeated and President Trump has announced that he is bringing America’s troops in Syria home. · President Trump announced a new Iran strategy to confront all of Iran’s malign activities and withdrew from the horrible, one-sided Iran nuclear deal. · All sanctions that had been lifted or waived under the Iran deal have been reimposed. · The Administration has sanctioned more than 160 individuals tied to the regime’s support of terrorism, ballistic missile program, human rights abuses, and more. · President Trump took decisive military action to respond to the barbaric use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime. · President Trump directed strikes in response to the regime’s chemical weapons attacks in April 2017 and April 2018. · The Trump Administration has also rolled out sanctions targeting those tied to Syria’s chemical weapons program. · President Trump is strengthening America’s cyber defense and directed the elevation of the United States Cyber Command into a major warfighting command. · The President announced that the Department of Defense will work to create a Space Force to serve as an independent branch of the United States military. RESTORING AMERICAN LEADERSHIP ABROAD: President Trump is restoring American leadership on the world stage and advancing an America first agenda. · President Trump held an historic summit with Chairman Kim Jong-Un, bringing beginnings of peace and denuclearization to the Korean Peninsula. · Since the summit, the leaders have exchanged letters and high-level officials from both countries have met. · Because of the President’s actions, North Korea has halted nuclear and missile tests. · The remains of POW/MIA service members from the Korean War are being returned to the United States. · Prior to the summit, President Trump’s leadership helped secure the passage of historic UN sanctions on North Korea. · President Trump followed through on his promise to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and move the American embassy there. · President Trump withdrew the United States from the UN Human Rights Council due to its bias against Israel. · The Administration made clear that it does not accept the International Criminal Court’s jurisdiction over Americans and will continue to protect America’s sovereignty. · President Trump has successfully advocated for cutting waste at the UN. · Changes made to the organization’s structure allowed the UN to cut hundreds of millions of dollars from their budget, while making the organization more efficient. · The President’s leadership in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) has encouraged members to increase their defense spending and realign the Alliance’s priorities. · In 2017 alone, there was an increase of more than 4.8 percent in defense spending among NATO allies. · President Trump convinced the Alliance to strengthen counterterrorism activities, and NATO formally joined the coalition to defeat ISIS. · President Trump’s Administration is working to advance a free and open Indo-Pacific through investments and partnerships. · President Trump has imposed tough sanctions on the corrupt regimes in Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua. · President Trump has taken tough action to combat Russia’s malign activities, including Russia’s efforts to undermine United States elections. · The Administration has imposed sanctions on more than 200 individuals and entities related to Russia’s destabilizing activities. · The Trump Administration has enhanced support for Ukraine’s defense by stepping up sales of weapons to its military. · The Trump Administration has secured the release of numerous American citizens held abroad, including Pastor Andrew Brunson from Turkey, Josh Holt from Venezuela, and more. · President Trump attended G20 summits in Argentina and Germany, where he promoted American First policies and encouraged closer cooperation. · In 2017, President Trump conducted tours through Asia to promote America’s interests. HONORING AMERICA’S COMMITMENT TO OUR VETERANS: President Trump is honoring America’s commitment to our veterans by ensuring they receive the quality care they have earned. · President Trump secured a record $73.1 billion in funding for the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) to provide quality medical care for our veterans. · This funding included $8.6 billion for mental health services, $400 million for opioid abuse prevention, $206 million for suicide prevention, and more. · The President signed the VA MISSION Act, revolutionizing that VA healthcare system and reforming numerous services for our veterans. · This legislation will consolidate and reform existing programs to give eligible veterans better access to healthcare providers in their communities. · Thanks to this legislation, eligible veterans will have access to walk-in community clinics that offer immediate, local care. · President Trump and his Administration have expanded access to telehealth services for veterans, including through the “Anywhere to Anywhere” VA health care initiative. · President Trump issued an executive order requiring the Administration to improve access to mental health treatment and suicide prevention resources for veterans. · President Trump signed the Veterans Affairs Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act, making it easier to fire failing employees and protect whistleblowers. · Under President Trump, the VA has removed, demoted, or suspended more than 4,300 employees for poor performance. · President Trump signed the Veterans Appeals Improvement and Modernization Act of 2017, streamlining the process used by veterans when appealing benefits claims. · President Trump fulfilled his promise to create a new White House VA Hotline to provide veterans with 24/7 support. · The VA is providing veterans with online access to wait time and quality of care data. · The President signed the Forever GI Bill, providing veterans, service members, and their families with enhanced education benefits. · Last year, programs at the VA and the Department of Housing and Urban Development helped more than 51,000 veterans find permanent housing and access supportive services. TRANSFORMING GOVERNMENT: President Trump has followed through on his pledge to transform the Federal Government and increase accountability and transparency. · President Trump’s Administration submitted a plan to reorganize the executive branch in order to improve efficiency and effectiveness. · In a historic show of transparency and accountability, the Trump Administration completed the Department of Defense’s first ever audit. · The President implemented a five-year ban on lobbying for White House employees and a lifetime ban on lobbying for foreign countries. · Each quarter since taking office, President Trump has donated his salary, fulfilling a promise he made to the American people. · As of December 1, 2019, President Donald Trump had made 164 Article III judicial appointments—2 supreme court justices, 48 appellate court judges, 112 district court judges, and 2 judges on the Court of International Trade.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 18, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> I see. Would you trust an Airline Pilot or Surgeon...or how about a financial manager or even you kids school bus driver, if they displayed Biden's current condition? Me neither.


[/QUOTE]

As I said, BIDEN will not be flying the plane, driving the bus, or operating on anybody!  Everybody around him knows this.  He’s a figurehead.

The difference with Trump is, HE actually thinks he can fly the plane, drive the bus, and operate on somebody.  YOU follow him off a cliff, not me.

Did you give me any positives on Obama or are you not man enough? O thought we were going to be intellectually honest.

FYI, I’m not reading the “accomplishments” you listed.  Some “accomplishments” may be subjective  and not every piece of legislation or regulation is necessarily positive.  Some may be.  Obama signed a lot of stuff also, so are they all winners?  Should I list every piece of legislation or regulations he signed?


----------



## Justafan (Jul 18, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Actually all the places you mentioned are places people vacation.
> 
> Those are not the s hole countries.
> 
> ...


Sorry you didn’t get the gist of what I was saying.  I’m saying that even though Somalia, Syria, ..... are considered shithole countries, it doesn’t mean all Somalis, Syrians .... are themselves shitholes.  That is what Trump implied and meant.  It also doesn’t mean the “cultures” of Somalia, Syria, are shitholes.

So the question to you is do you think all Somalis are shitholes and do you consider their “culture” a shitole culture?


----------



## Justafan (Jul 18, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> His dick might be bigger than his wife's?  He was smart enough to move to a white neighborhood when he retired?


And you claim to be the only one who has the balls to look in the mirror and have a real discussion. You just exposed yourself. You hate Obama so much, you won’t even give him Osama Bin Laden. 
That is straight cowardice.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 18, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Nobody knows what the fuck you're babbling about.


You know what I meant, don’t skirt the issue homie. But in case you missed it, you know all that shit you talked about Blacks not taking responsibility for the situation their in, blaming everyone else for their problems, and expecting handouts?  

Well sir, you just described Trumps base!  So why don’t you talk the same shit about them?  There, pretty simple.


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## dad4 (Jul 18, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Come on @outlaw I’m very disappointed with this response because I thought you knew me better than that pal; that argument is old and I have moved on.  So, on to the next history lesson pal:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You might want to pick someone who took the presidency through elections instead of a coup.

I don’t call a someone “President” just because his soldiers killed the other guy’s soldiers.


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## MacDre (Jul 18, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Sorry you didn’t get the gist of what I was saying.  I’m saying that even though Somalia, Syria, ..... are considered shithole countries, it doesn’t mean all Somalis, Syrians .... are themselves shitholes.  That is what Trump implied and meant.  It also doesn’t mean the “cultures” of Somalia, Syria, are shitholes.
> 
> So the question to you is do you think all Somalis are shitholes and do you consider their “culture” a shitole culture?


I think Somalia is the motherland.  Lot’s of history over by the Red Sea.


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## MacDre (Jul 18, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You might want to pick someone who took the presidency through elections instead of a coup.
> 
> I don’t call a someone “President” just because his soldiers killed the other guy’s soldiers.


Yeah, but he abolished slavery too.  Won Independence from Spain.  And the state of Guerrero know for it’s Acapulco resorts is named after him.  I also don’t think most in the US realizes that Mexico had an important black President before the USA.


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## MacDre (Jul 18, 2020)

dad4 said:


> You might want to pick someone who took the presidency through elections instead of a coup.
> 
> I don’t call a someone “President” just because his soldiers killed the other guy’s soldiers.


By this definition, I guess we are still British and under the crown.


----------



## Lionel Hutz (Jul 18, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> I could have selected any value for the example, but I intentionally selected the value of R0 = 1.2 to demonstrate how the number of previous infections can make the difference between a stable situation where infections are not growing and a situation where there is accelerating growth. The point being, it was a mistake for CNN to leave this out of the consideration of why those states are doing well now. Again, it's not the only factor, but it is a significant one.


I figured that is why you chose a hypothetical R0 = 1.2.  The opposite is also true if you do your calculations  on the R0 for SARS-COV-2 (R0 = 2 - 3) and you see that population with a 20% having antibodies does little to slow the spread of diseases as the effective R0 = 1.6 - 2.4 well above 1 and requires other NPI to mitigate the spread (like social distancing, etc).  One can see the R0 has risen in NYC as these measures are being relaxed.  This is magnified further given the role "super spreaders"and how the R0 = 2 - 3 is the average across the population but is higher for these individuals. 

I would say in Northeast that the various NPI had a more significant impact on the reduction of the R0 than the emergence of individuals who developed immunity to the virus given the higher N0 for this virus.  Just my two cents.


----------



## Fact (Jul 18, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Are you clowns are aware that those shows are classified as “entertainment” and NOT “news?”


What don't you understand by "he provides all the sources for his show so you can do your own fact checking"
You are a real zero with all your divisive propaganda.  Are you sure you are a real lawyer or are you one of those Al Sharpton types. I call bs.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 18, 2020)

CaliKlines said:


> Obviously, from the color of his feathers, he must be a bigoted racist.


White meat


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 18, 2020)

Justafan said:


> You know what I meant, don’t skirt the issue homie. But in case you missed it, you know all that shit you talked about Blacks not taking responsibility for the situation their in, blaming everyone else for their problems, and expecting handouts?
> 
> Well sir, you just described Trumps base!  So why don’t you talk the same shit about them?  There, pretty simple.


Let’s see some data supporting your side.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 18, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> You would think but it's surprising still how many people are holding onto "we must do something".  I'm still getting a lot of if only we weren't so selfish and just wore our masks and had some competent leadership this thing would go away in 30 days.  Our local school board president suggested to me that we shut down for 30 days for everything and people stopped going out to play basketball and we just all stocked up on supplies, we could eliminate the virus.  I did my schtick: would you shut down the free lunch program you offered hard hit kids during the lockdowns?  Would you shut the southern border to even American citizens?  You prepared to suppress protests (whether left or right) with force?  Her response back is if we'd only unite together we could overcome anything.


I have wanted to comment about the free lunch program for a while.  There certainly are children who absolutely need free lunches.  To apply for the free lunch, a form is filled out and signed.  If your income is below a certain level, number of people,  you qualify. Right.  But no proof needs to be shown. I have seen many children who "qualify" for free lunch playing with their ipads  before school or on their iphones.  I have seen them show up for our school book sales with $40,$50.  I have seen them wearing very expensive sneakers, most I could not afford. If a child needs a free lunch, absolutely give it to him/her. There is so much abuse of the system it is ridiculous.  I have been told by a friend, who was having a street party a couple years ago, who does this with his family, that they pay cash for almost everything to hide income. Lunches can and have been delivered during the shelter in place. So not problem there.


----------



## watfly (Jul 18, 2020)

Sandypk said:


> Can’t Charter schools pick and choose who they enroll, much like Private schools?


False, but that's what the teachers unions would have you believe.  Charters have to accept all that apply.  If more apply than capacity they have to hold a random public drawing. Now EOTL and his tinfoil hat would have you believe that the enrollment is "reverse engineered" to cherry pick the ethnically and socially preferable children.





__





						Charter Schools - CalEdFacts (CA Dept of Education)
					

This content is part of California Department of Education's information and media guide about education in the State of California.




					www.cde.ca.gov


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 18, 2020)

watfly said:


> False, but that's what the teachers unions would have you believe.  Charters have to accept all that apply.  If more apply than capacity they have to hold a random public drawing. Now EOTL and his tinfoil hat would have you believe that the enrollment is "reverse engineered" to cherry pick the ethnically and socially preferable children.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You do know how to tell when a lib is lying?


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 18, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> I know I am going to be hugely unpopular after saying this but I think sports is done and done. At least for this year at least... maybe at the collegiate level it can be salvaged but for youth and club soccer specifically whether its SCDSL, ECNL,ECRL, MLS, GAL, DPL, CRL, AWOL, HPV, IOU, DUI, etc, I think it's over.... (SO CAL) what say you @Grace T. @Copa9 ??


Sadly yes, unless we can cut the number of covid cases.  Watched a soccer coach/trainer at our local park with a group of six girls, he was doing a good job with distancing, but then, wait for it,  they took a water break and the girls rushed to a shady tree and sat very close to each other laughing and drinking their water. ( I was on a bench watching enjoying watching them from a distance, had been walking my dog)  Really too bad.  It is that type of thing that either he didn't think what he was letting them do was a problem or he didn't care because he was far away. This morning I was at Target in RSM, some petitioners there, I don't care what they were trying to get people to sign, but they did not have on masks. As I walked by I asked them where their masks were, women replied, he is my husband, but then three people walked up to sign petition, no one had on a mask. They were all within three, four  feet of each other.  This might be a losing battle with idiots like that, they just don't think it will affect them I guess.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 18, 2020)

chiefs said:


> PEOPLE STOP TESTING! other facts people forget is that the death rate in italy and spain (at a minimum) is much worse than the US.


So far.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 18, 2020)

BIGD said:


> Kids distance learning temporarily and murder is not exactly a fair comparison.


What do you m


Grace T. said:


> Denver School District has now reversed course and after being pressured by the teacher's union is going remote only.  The entire state of Colorado, despite reopening, has averaged less than 7 deaths per day since June 1.  If that's the standards the unions are holding up, we aren't opening up the schools until a vaccine, whenever that is.  Anyone else see a trend?


Have relatives in Boulder and the numbers are increasing.  Maybe they want to get a firm handle on it before it takes off like in Arizona and California.


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## dad4 (Jul 18, 2020)

MacDre said:


> By this definition, I guess we are still British and under the crown.


No, but by that definition Adams was our first President, not Washington.  Which is sort of true.  Washington never had to win a contested election.

I never said Mexico failed to win independence.  I just said I don’t call someone President unless they won an election.  If you really want to nit pick,  bring up President Ford.  But you know what I mean.  There is a difference between President and dictator.


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## paytoplay (Jul 18, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Matt Drudge online info is so negative.  BTW, RIP John Lewis.  He should be up at the top of the Drudge report.
> He should call it the, "Dire Straights Report"
> 
> *NEW PEAK NOW: USA 77,638 INFECTIONS IN PAST 24 HOURS...
> ...


A “Nation Divided” says it all. Trump’s epitaph. Sad.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 18, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Let’s see some data supporting your side.


You know how Outlaw can tell that the Black football player couldn’t have possibly scored a 1200 on his SAT’s, I can tell by simply looking at the people at a Trump rally!  How bout them apples?


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 18, 2020)

It's here and always has been here.  It's alive!!!  Were all going to get the virus.  Write it down and dont forget that.  









						Iran estimates up to 25 million coronavirus cases since outbreak; nearly doubling the total worldwide caseload: report
					

Iran's President Hassan Rouhani estimated that up to 25 million people in the country have been infected with coronavirus but despite this tally and urging from Rouhani himself to take precautions to protect against the virus' spread, the country will not reimpose lockdown restrictions.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## MacDre (Jul 18, 2020)

dad4 said:


> No, but by that definition Adams was our first President, not Washington.  Which is sort of true.  Washington never had to win a contested election.
> 
> I never said Mexico failed to win independence.  I just said I don’t call someone President unless they won an election.  If you really want to nit pick,  bring up President Ford.  But you know what I mean.  There is a difference between President and dictator.


Fair.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 18, 2020)

Lionel Hutz said:


> I figured that is why you chose a hypothetical R0 = 1.2.  The opposite is also true if you do your calculations  on the R0 for SARS-COV-2 (R0 = 2 - 3) and you see that population with a 20% having antibodies does little to slow the spread of diseases as the effective R0 = 1.6 - 2.4 well above 1 and requires other NPI to mitigate the spread (like social distancing, etc).  One can see the R0 has risen in NYC as these measures are being relaxed.  This is magnified further given the role "super spreaders"and how the R0 = 2 - 3 is the average across the population but is higher for these individuals.
> 
> I would say in Northeast that the various NPI had a more significant impact on the reduction of the R0 than the emergence of individuals who developed immunity to the virus given the higher N0 for this virus.  Just my two cents.


My primary point was that CNN did a poor job of informing people with that article and I provided an example to show why. I like your initial conditions, too. Let's see what it means in terms of NYC (20% with antibodies) and AZ (3.1% with antibodies) and use 2.5, the midpoint of your R0.

From inverse.com 
Incubation period: 4-6 days for most to develop symptoms
Infectious period: 1-3 days prior to developing symptoms and for 7 days after developing symptoms.
So, most are infectious from 1-5 days after being infected and continues until day 11-13. 8 days is about in the middle, although I'd argue it's more likely people infect others earlier in the infectious period before they show symptoms as they are less likely to isolate themselves without symptoms.









						Covid-19: How long does it take to get sick, how long you're infectious, when you can go outside
					

As the coronavirus pandemic stretches on, a small proportion of Australians infected have now died, while most have either recovered, or are likely to recover over the next few weeks.




					www.inverse.com
				




So, we go through a generation of the virus in about 8 days. With R0 = 2.5, the effective R for
NYC: 2.0 = 2.5*0.8
AZ: 2.4225 = 2.5*0.969

- after 8 days
NY: 2 people
AZ: 2.4225 people
21% higher rate of infection in AZ

- after 16 days
NY: 4 = 2*2
AZ: 5.8685 = 2.4225*2.4225
47% higher rate of infection in AZ

- after 24 days
NY: 8 = 2*4
AZ: 14.2 = 2.4225*5.8685
78% higher in AZ

- after 32 days
NY: 16
AZ = 34.4 = 2.4225^2*58.685
115% higher in AZ

While both are in ugly exponential growth territory, there can be little doubt that NYC isn't in nearly as bad as shape as AZ simply due to the number already infected in NYC. Yes, NYC may be doing other things - quite possibly things that AZ is not doing. However, they get the above "advantage" over AZ in terms of new growth without doing anything other than a poor job of containing the virus in March.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 18, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Sadly yes, unless we can cut the number of covid cases.  Watched a soccer coach/trainer at our local park with a group of six girls, he was doing a good job with distancing, but then, wait for it,  they took a water break and the girls rushed to a shady tree and sat very close to each other laughing and drinking their water. ( I was on a bench watching enjoying watching them from a distance, had been walking my dog)  Really too bad.  It is that type of thing that either he didn't think what he was letting them do was a problem or he didn't care because he was far away. This morning I was at Target in RSM, some petitioners there, I don't care what they were trying to get people to sign, but they did not have on masks. As I walked by I asked them where their masks were, women replied, he is my husband, but then three people walked up to sign petition, no one had on a mask. They were all within three, four  feet of each other.  This might be a losing battle with idiots like that, they just don't think it will affect them I guess.


Hope it was the recall petition. My friends teammates mom already has 48 signatures in 1 day and was going to collect more at the beach today.  My neighbor has 134 in 2 days.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 18, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Hope it was the recall petition. My friends teammates mom already has 48 signatures in 1 day and was going to collect more at the beach today.  My neighbor has 134 in 2 days.


Grace, my buddies neighbor is all in with recall.  He signed it as did 75% of his neighbors.  Villa Park area.  Crazy times.


----------



## Lionel Hutz (Jul 18, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> My primary point was that CNN did a poor job of informing people with that article and I provided an example to show why. I like your initial conditions, too. Let's see what it means in terms of NYC (20% with antibodies) and AZ (3.1% with antibodies) and use 2.5, the midpoint of your R0.
> 
> From inverse.com
> Incubation period: 4-6 days for most to develop symptoms
> ...


Your calculations are fine in a vacuum if no other NPI are taken -- my point is that these are not occurring in a vacuum and people'e behavior can have greater impact on reducing the spread of disease in populations were there is still potential for exponential growth. 

Your calculations though do a good job of capturing why 20% immunity in a population is long way from herd immunity with virus that has a R0 = 2-3


----------



## dad4 (Jul 18, 2020)

Lionel Hutz said:


> Your calculations are fine in a vacuum if no other NPI are taken -- my point is that these are not occurring in a vacuum and people'e behavior can have greater impact on reducing the spread of disease in populations were there is still potential for exponential growth.
> 
> Your calculations though do a good job of capturing why 20% immunity in a population is long way from herd immunity with virus that has a R0 = 2-3


Is there an estimate for how much particular NPI can change R?


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 18, 2020)

Lionel Hutz said:


> Your calculations are fine in a vacuum if no other NPI are taken -- my point is that these are not occurring in a vacuum and people'e behavior can have greater impact on reducing the spread of disease in populations were there is still potential for exponential growth.
> 
> Your calculations though do a good job of capturing why 20% immunity in a population is long way from herd immunity with virus that has a R0 = 2-3


Again, the point I was making was that CNN posted their story without considering antibodies in the population and that's misleading. In a vacuum or not, the % who have antibodies matters - a lot - with or without NPI. Both examples show that. I also explicitly stated in the first post that there are other factors. I never argued otherwise. This stuff can be confusing and misleading reporting doesn't help.

Also, I figured you didn't really need all those calculations, but I wanted to see them myself. There was an added benefit. My daughter got a "virus growth" lesson today. She knows I'm crazy. She accepts it.

This is an interesting topic as even R0 is not particularly "constant". As we move into fall, it will be affected by changes in the weather, the seasonality associated with the amount of time spent indoors and the air "quality" indoors. The conditions for stability will change. The real "wildcard" is how long antibodies stay active in the body. I'm hoping it's at least 18 months.

Short of a hard shutdown in AZ, TX and FL, I'd guess they are going to need to bring the % of residents with antibodies up to near where NY state is, about 14%, before things start to stabilize.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 18, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> My primary point was that CNN did a poor job of informing people with that article and I provided an example to show why.
> 
> Incubation period: 4-6 days for most to develop symptoms
> Infectious period: 1-3 days prior to developing symptoms and for 7 days after developing symptoms.
> So, most are infectious from 1-5 days after being infected and continues until day 11-13. 8 days is about in the middle, although I'd argue it's more likely people infect others earlier in the infectious period before they show symptoms as they are less likely to isolate themselves without symptoms.


How about we don't leave it to CNN, FOX, OAN, MSNBC, etc.  Here's my f'n plan!

I use the DPA (Defense Production Act) and force the production of 100 million Abbot machines.  I use all the unemployed to work round the f'n clock and get these done in about 2-3 weeks.  I ship them out to every f'n household in America within 1 week.  Once everybody has one in their house, I tell American's that we are going to suck it up for 1 week.  Nobody leaves their f'n house, and they test every single day for 1 week.

After that 1 week, anybody who tests positive, we will send a f'n contact tracing team to your house and handle everything while you remain quarantined.  We'll feed you and treat you like a f'n king to make sure you don't go out.  Omaha Filet Mignons, Dom Perignon, you name it.  

On the 8th day, EVERYBODY goes back to normal; schools, bars, restaurants, etc.  Keep testing regularly to catch any flare ups and keep all precautions as much as possible.

Cost: 100-200 billion                      Cost of No Plan: priceless


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 18, 2020)

Justafan said:


> How about we don't leave it to CNN, FOX, OAN, MSNBC, etc.  Here's my f'n plan!
> 
> I use the DPA (Defense Production Act) and force the production of 100 million Abbot machines.  I use all the unemployed to work round the f'n clock and get these done in about 2-3 weeks.  I ship them out to every f'n household in America within 1 week.  Once everybody has one in their house, I tell American's that we are going to suck it up for 1 week.  Nobody leaves their f'n house, and they test every single day for 1 week.
> 
> ...



Wow! Nice to know Justafan among other things wants to:

-Violently suppress BLM, anti-lockdown and any other protestors that insist on leaving their house
-Deploy the military to shut down the southern and northern borders (in this case most likely Americans looking to escape north or south and then sneak back over when this is done)
-Round up anyone that engages in private gatherings or otherwise leaves their house during this time period
-Since it's only a 1 week isolation, presumably forcibly remove any loved one, including children, that might be in an infected persons home and ship them to separate quarantine
-If anyone has a plumbing break, aircon break, or runs out of food because say their refrigerator stopped working say they're SOL
-Stop free lunch programs for the poor (because there's no one to delivery them)
-Presumably force the doctors, nurses and ambulence units working in the emergency rooms out of their homes and into the hospitals
-And presumably then isolate all the military, police and contact tracers required to keep everyone in line who might have been exposed during the 1 week
-Force the unemployed to work around the clock and relocate to wherever they need to go to do this (or pay them lawyer level wages to motivate them to take such temporary employment)
-Round up the homeless and put them in concentration camps so they can be tested in this time period
and
-suspend the Constitution and the courts to allow us to build this utopia

My God man we can't even get Americans to return their census figures and you want to track, give everyone a machine, and put them in forced lock down for a week.  Why not just employ the Chinese methods....they're less fightening and totalitarian.  Really scary stuff if the fear porn has gotten this bad that anyone is actually thinking this way.  That blue pill is made of powerful stuff....


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 18, 2020)

Whatever one thinks about tomorrow is imagining things in their head.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 18, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Wow! Nice to know Justafan among other things wants to:
> 
> -Violently suppress BLM, anti-lockdown and any other protestors that insist on leaving their house
> -Deploy the military to shut down the southern and northern borders (in this case most likely Americans looking to escape north or south and then sneak back over when this is done)
> ...


I think everyone is so miserable that they will do so voluntarily.  We’ve locked down for 4 months, what’s 1 week.  I know you were being facetious, BUT would you lock down voluntarily for 7 days if you knew that on the 8th day you can get your life back?

I’m with Desert Hound, let’s think of what’s possible, not what’s impossible. We act as if there is no solution or answers to this pandemic. We act helpless and defenseless. There are lots of answers, we’ve just haven’t been thinking big enough. That is UN-AMERICAN. You’re telling me we can’t get build and get one of those toaster sized machines to every household?

Anyways, I’m just throwing that out there as an example of a “plan.” By all means if there are better plans out there, and I’m sure there are, then I’m all for it.

The fact that we didn’t have a “plan” after we locked down for 3 months is criminal. So that’s why I say another lockdown is useless because there’s no carrot/plan at the end of the lockdown.

We’d simply reopen again, have a spike in infections, and lockdown again.  And unfortunately that’s where we’re headed.  With no plan, we are going to need bailout after bailout.  When all is said and done, without a “plan,” this thing is going to cost us 15 trillion.  With the new stimulus coming at the end of this month, were up to 10 trillion.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 18, 2020)

Justafan said:


> I think everyone is so miserable that they will do so voluntarily.  We’ve locked down for 4 months, what’s 1 week.  I know you were being facetious, BUT would you lock down voluntarily for 7 days if you knew that on the 8th day you can get your life back?
> 
> I’m with Desert Hound, let’s think of what’s possible, not what’s impossible. We act as if there is no solution or answers to this pandemic. We act helpless and defenseless. There are lots of answers, we’ve just haven’t been thinking big enough. That is UN-AMERICAN. You’re telling me we can’t get build and get one of those toaster sized machines to every household?
> 
> ...


In order to protect the Constitution, I'd be one of the first to oppose your plan and stare down your tank as it rolled down the street.  I'd lay down my life to preserve the nation and render my children orphans.

And if you don't use force, let me remind you of our betters who were lecturing us to voluntarily quarantine and then went off and did what they wanted to do for their own selfish purposes: Chris Cuomo (broke quarantine despite being confirmed positive to check out his vacation home), Mayor Lightfoot (got a haircut), Mayor De Blasio (went to a park outside his neighborhood and exempted BLM protests from rules because they are important and got slapped by the courts for doing so), President Obama (went golfing), D Cummings (despite being a member of Johnson's government fled north with his family to have childcare in case the worst happens), Trudeau (went to cabin in the woods with his family), Gov Whitmer (her husband tried to use his influence to get a boat out of drydock when the weekend before his wife was urging people not to go to the area), Fergueson (despite being the architect of the British lockdown, broke it to get a booty call), Dr. Faucci (was caught taking off his mask indoors when the cameras were no longer rolling).  You can't get these people to cooperate despite the fact they know better.  

The problem is all government plans short of yours or Chinese/Vietnamese tyranny have been failures.  Excluding some island that have gotten lucky and the tyrannts no one has figured this out.  What's left is you can take the blue pill and continue to delude yourself that we have any sort of real control over this, or you can take the red pill and join us in the ugly reality.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 18, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> In order to protect the Constitution, I'd be one of the first to oppose your plan and stare down your tank as it rolled down the street.  I'd lay down my life to preserve the nation and render my children orphans.
> 
> And if you don't use force, let me remind you of our betters who were lecturing us to voluntarily quarantine and then went off and did what they wanted to do for their own selfish purposes: Chris Cuomo (broke quarantine despite being confirmed positive to check out his vacation home), Mayor Lightfoot (got a haircut), Mayor De Blasio (went to a park outside his neighborhood and exempted BLM protests from rules because they are important and got slapped by the courts for doing so), President Obama (went golfing), D Cummings (despite being a member of Johnson's government fled north with his family to have childcare in case the worst happens), Trudeau (went to cabin in the woods with his family), Gov Whitmer (her husband tried to use his influence to get a boat out of drydock when the weekend before his wife was urging people not to go to the area), Fergueson (despite being the architect of the British lockdown, broke it to get a booty call), Dr. Faucci (was caught taking off his mask indoors when the cameras were no longer rolling).  You can't get these people to cooperate despite the fact they know better.
> 
> The problem is all government plans short of yours or Chinese/Vietnamese tyranny have been failures.  Excluding some island that have gotten lucky and the tyrannts no one has figured this out.  What's left is you can take the blue pill and continue to delude yourself that we have any sort of real control over this, or you can take the red pill and join us in the ugly reality.


Relax, I said voluntarily, and it was an example of a plan.  I welcome any other plans.  What’s your plan?  Or are we just defenseless?

Anyways, how about Harvard's plan, that's the one I've been preaching for since April.    https://www.vox.com/2020/4/13/21215133/coronavirus-testing-covid-19-tests-screening

Check out the last sentence, "go big or stay home."


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 18, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Relax, I said voluntarily, and it was an example of a plan.  I welcome any other plans.  What’s your plan?  Or are we just defenseless?
> 
> Anyways, how about Harvard's plan, that's the one I've been preaching for since April.    https://www.vox.com/2020/4/13/21215133/coronavirus-testing-covid-19-tests-screening
> 
> Check out the last sentence, "go big or stay home."


As advocatus diaboli I'd say your two principle problems are you'd have to forcibly tests since there's a portion of the population that wouldn't want to do it, and the major problem is the time factor.  The US is increasing its testing capacity far faster than almost any country in the world but we're now at certain breakers that stop us from getting it even with the money available including training backroom staff, ingredient and supplies, and processing capacity.  All that can be built up but it would take time....by the time Operation Warp Speed is completed (which, like Neo, is the 1 thing that would actually make a difference in the struggle) the testing would be moot.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 18, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> As advocatus diaboli I'd say your two principle problems are you'd have to forcibly tests since there's a portion of the population that wouldn't want to do it, and the major problem is the time factor.  The US is increasing its testing capacity far faster than almost any country in the world but we're now at certain breakers that stop us from getting it even with the money available including training backroom staff, ingredient and supplies, and processing capacity.  All that can be built up but it would take time....by the time Operation Warp Speed is completed (which, like Neo, is the 1 thing that would actually make a difference in the struggle) the testing would be moot.


All you’re giving me is reasons why it CAN’T be done. Fine, let’s find a plan that CAN be done.

“The US is increasing testing capacity far faster than any other country in the world.”  So what, It’s all defensive testing, i.e. you need a referral for the most part.  We need offensive testing, like Harvard suggests.

“we’re at certain breakers.”  I have no idea what this means.

“training backroom staff, ingredient and supplies, and processing capacity.” You use the Defense Production Act. This one is easy.

“operation warp speed.” If that’s our best plan, God help us.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jul 18, 2020)

watfly said:


> False, but that's what the teachers unions would have you believe.  Charters have to accept all that apply.  If more apply than capacity they have to hold a random public drawing. Now EOTL and his tinfoil hat would have you believe that the enrollment is "reverse engineered" to cherry pick the ethnically and socially preferable children.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its not false. And I am not going to debate you. But, lets just say I know and SPK know. If you need to ask or respond. Its a waste of your effort, time, and anything else. Now, if you have a background in education from a NPS, Charter and in public education, please let me know. I and SPK both have 25 years of experience for each of us.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 18, 2020)

Justafan said:


> All you’re giving me is reasons why it CAN’T be done. Fine, let’s find a plan that CAN be done.
> 
> “The US is increasing testing capacity far faster than any other country in the world.”  So what, It’s all defensive testing, i.e. you need a referral for the most part.  We need offensive testing, like Harvard suggests.
> 
> ...


You're holding onto that blue pill real hard.  

Even if you were to draft people, you'd have to train them to do the job...and you need new people (you can't just reshuffle the people who are doing diabeties and UTI testing right now without killing those people).  For the ingredients and supplies it means building new factories and mining supplies and labs.  You are talking even throwing WWII level resources at it at least a year to get to those numbers, because we've outsourced a lot of our resource supplies and manufacturing overseas so it means starting from scratch.  Remember even with WWII level commitments and with a long lead time that we had in WWII where Roosevelt knew we'd eventually have to throw down, it took us 2 years before we were really into the fight.  Our biggest enemy even with Operation Warp Speed is time.

I know....I have to understand....most people are not ready to be unplugged from the matrix.   I can only show you the door.  You're the one that has to walk through it.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 18, 2020)

As I said, BIDEN will not be flying the plane, driving the bus, or operating on anybody!  Everybody around him knows this.  He’s a figurehead.

The difference with Trump is, HE actually thinks he can fly the plane, drive the bus, and operate on somebody.  YOU follow him off a cliff, not me.

Did you give me any positives on Obama or are you not man enough? O thought we were going to be intellectually honest.

FYI, I’m not reading the “accomplishments” you listed.  Some “accomplishments” may be subjective  and not every piece of legislation or regulation is necessarily positive.  Some may be.  Obama signed a lot of stuff also, so are they all winners?  Should I list every piece of legislation or regulations he signed?
[/QUOTE]
He was a good father, had a solid nuclear family.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 18, 2020)

As I said, BIDEN will not be flying the plane, driving the bus, or operating on anybody!  Everybody around him knows this.  He’s a figurehead.

The difference with Trump is, HE actually thinks he can fly the plane, drive the bus, and operate on somebody.  YOU follow him off a cliff, not me.

Did you give me any positives on Obama or are you not man enough? O thought we were going to be intellectually honest.

FYI, I’m not reading the “accomplishments” you listed.  Some “accomplishments” may be subjective  and not every piece of legislation or regulation is necessarily positive.  Some may be.  Obama signed a lot of stuff also, so are they all winners?  Should I list every piece of legislation or regulations he signed?
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, forgot one...took out OBL.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 18, 2020)

As I said, BIDEN will not be flying the plane, driving the bus, or operating on anybody!  Everybody around him knows this.  He’s a figurehead.

The difference with Trump is, HE actually thinks he can fly the plane, drive the bus, and operate on somebody.  YOU follow him off a cliff, not me.

Did you give me any positives on Obama or are you not man enough? O thought we were going to be intellectually honest.

FYI, I’m not reading the “accomplishments” you listed.  Some “accomplishments” may be subjective  and not every piece of legislation or regulation is necessarily positive.  Some may be.  Obama signed a lot of stuff also, so are they all winners?  Should I list every piece of legislation or regulations he signed?
[/QUOTE]
I didn't say that..Again, the question was would you trust the pilot, Surgeon, Financial Manager or School Bus Driver...this is the key part... if they displayed Biden's current condition?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 19, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Wow! Nice to know Justafan among other things wants to:
> 
> -Violently suppress BLM, anti-lockdown and any other protestors that insist on leaving their house
> -Deploy the military to shut down the southern and northern borders (in this case most likely Americans looking to escape north or south and then sneak back over when this is done)
> ...


These liberals are an emotional bunch.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 19, 2020)

Justafan said:


> You know how Outlaw can tell that the Black football player couldn’t have possibly scored a 1200 on his SAT’s, I can tell by simply looking at the people at a Trump rally!  How bout them apples?


Welcome to the club.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 19, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Its not false. *And I am not going to debate you*. But, lets just say I know and SPK know. If you need to ask or respond. Its a waste of your effort, time, and anything else. Now, if you have a background in education from a NPS, Charter and in public education, please let me know. I and SPK both have 25 years of experience for each of us.


Welcome back.  Your funny Lastman.


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 19, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> In order to protect the Constitution, I'd be one of the first to oppose your plan and stare down your tank as it rolled down the street.  I'd lay down my life to preserve the nation and render my children orphans.
> 
> And if you don't use force, let me remind you of our betters who were lecturing us to voluntarily quarantine and then went off and did what they wanted to do for their own selfish purposes: Chris Cuomo (broke quarantine despite being confirmed positive to check out his vacation home), Mayor Lightfoot (got a haircut), Mayor De Blasio (went to a park outside his neighborhood and exempted BLM protests from rules because they are important and got slapped by the courts for doing so), President Obama (went golfing), D Cummings (despite being a member of Johnson's government fled north with his family to have childcare in case the worst happens), Trudeau (went to cabin in the woods with his family), Gov Whitmer (her husband tried to use his influence to get a boat out of drydock when the weekend before his wife was urging people not to go to the area), Fergueson (despite being the architect of the British lockdown, broke it to get a booty call), Dr. Faucci (was caught taking off his mask indoors when the cameras were no longer rolling).  You can't get these people to cooperate despite the fact they know better.
> 
> The problem is all government plans short of yours or Chinese/Vietnamese tyranny have been failures.  Excluding some island that have gotten lucky and the tyrannts no one has figured this out.  What's left is you can take the blue pill and continue to delude yourself that we have any sort of real control over this, or you can take the red pill and join us in the ugly reality.


Obama’s fault. Yep


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 19, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Obama’s fault. Yep


Never said it was his fault and there is a con on the list. It’s just these people couldn’t do it despite a) knowing better and b) lecturing everyone.  Short of overwhelming force how then do you get the regular guy to cooperate?


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 19, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Sorry you didn’t get the gist of what I was saying.  I’m saying that even though Somalia, Syria, ..... are considered shithole countries, it doesn’t mean all Somalis, Syrians .... are themselves shitholes.  That is what Trump implied and meant.  It also doesn’t mean the “cultures” of Somalia, Syria, are shitholes.
> 
> So the question to you is do you think all Somalis are shitholes and do you consider their “culture” a shitole culture?


Well ask yourself what system of government has the culture of Somalia brought forth?

How does their culture treat women, gays, other religions, etc? 

We all know the answers to the above.


----------



## whatithink (Jul 19, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Well ask yourself what system of government has the culture of Somalia brought forth?
> 
> How does their culture treat women, gays, other religions, etc?
> 
> We all know the answers to the above.


Is Somalia meant to have developed a system of government in the last 60 years? That's basically how long they have been independent. Is Somalia a country historically or a geographic construct of the conquerors? Sharia law anywhere is obviously for shit. The funny thing is, IMO, the treatment of women, gays and other religions by extreme Muslims is close aligned with the same by extreme Christians. I digress though.

Do shithole countries generally correlate to ex colonies in the main? Did those ex-colonial masters leave those countries as beacons of hope and examples of the prosperity that their "masters" imbued on them ... or did those ex-colonial masters divide and conquer locally, strip them of their wealth, treat them like crap etc. and so on. Did those countries ever exist prior as actual countries?

I read somewhere once that Ghana was the only ex-British empire country that did not have a civil war when the British left.

This is obviously a completely different subject, and an extremely complex one.

Somalia is certainly a "shithole". Wars, rebellions, civil wars does not a stable country make.

Another example given was Syria - one could make the point that Syria was a stable country prior to the rebellion ... albeit an authoritarian dictatorship propped up by the Soviets etc. Civil wars though tend to fuck things up and make "stable" countries into shitholes for a long period of time.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 19, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> As I said, BIDEN will not be flying the plane, driving the bus, or operating on anybody!  Everybody around him knows this.  He’s a figurehead.
> 
> The difference with Trump is, HE actually thinks he can fly the plane, drive the bus, and operate on somebody.  YOU follow him off a cliff, not me.
> 
> ...


I didn't say that..Again, the question was would you trust the pilot, Surgeon, Financial Manager or School Bus Driver...this is the key part... if they displayed Biden's current condition?
[/QUOTE]

Of course not.  But even assuming Biden is driving and flying, which he is not, I would still choose Biden over Trump.  With Biden we have a shot, with Trump it’s certain disaster.

Look, aside from the pandemic, what kind of parent pits one kid against another and openly roots for one?  Who deliberately destroys their family unit? Is it ok just because you’re the one he’s rooting for?  IF we can recover from this alone, it’s going to take a lot of time and therapy.

You guys complain because the mainstream media bans conservative viewpoints, so how does that feel?  It only creates resentment.  Same with Trump.  

Bottom line, the negative outweighs the positive with Trump.  I believe that’s a similar equation many used against Hillary.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 19, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Well ask yourself what system of government has the culture of Somalia brought forth?
> 
> How does their culture treat women, gays, other religions, etc?
> 
> We all know the answers to the above.


First of all I don’t equate culture with type of government. Neither do most people. You’re trying so hard to be right and not concede anything that yoube put yourself in a hole.

By your definition, just about every country on the planet is a shithole.


----------



## Not_that_Serious (Jul 19, 2020)

met61 said:


> I'd say you've over simplified a complex issue with many factors.
> 
> To address your point, I'd say a family's household income and means would be a main factor. Using your daughters cohort example; would you say your household income and means allows you more quality family time? Also, do you see those using before & after school care as a necessity or bad parenting?
> 
> To incorporate one of my points in case you missed it  - sure, it would be great if all parents could be paid by their tax dollars to not work and stay home on end for quality family time.


I haven’t gone through all the pages but I have family who teaches (one family member runs a very poor school, so I get the teachers who pay for crayons, pencils and other supplies themselves, but teachers still get paid well despiste that) and who also clean at these schools. I also had child in an experimental summer school program in a school district - until Newsom squashed it. The experimental class room implemented various guidelines- many which were taken from places like Iceland, swede , Japan, Singapore, Australia, Various Canadian states, WHO China and on and on. In all these countries they have posted actual data and official statements, specially stating, ZERO cases of kids transmitting to adults. Then the real issue is teachers and staff passing it to on another Adult and POSSIBLY to a child. If the teachers actually follow protocols like responsible adults - not a problem. In AZ the teacher who got sick didn’t get it from a child, but now using children safety as a political tool. The teachers/unions, not all, as I know many willing to get back (as seen in experimental classrooms as well), are stopping this - even going back 50%. The hybrid model was ready to go in OC, since it seems OC is the only county (and SD) looking at real data. News, Unions, State things such as “new research” or “new data” but you’ll notice they never source it or have it available when you ask for it. Unfortunately this virus has been political- from the beginning. Your wife is a teacher, and state income is a big factor about staying home, but has your family sat down and thought of the very good possibility of your wife being laid off if this goes on? The District leaders in many areas are not stupid and hire tons of experts to look at the science and finances. My original suggestion was for teachers to take a pay cut of 10% if you made over $100k. My kids teachers last year averaged $105k base salary- with a few reaching $150k total compensation. Teachers actually work 7.5-8 months after holiday time off. Teachers will not be teaching 100% of that time anymore - the districts know this. It opens them up for litigation. As it stands, due to knowing teachers will not accept pay cuts - the budget needs to shrink elsewhere. So no sports for sure this Fall, and possibly none for the rest of next year - they will just say it’s “safety”. Yet MLS, NBA and other sports going on in our state. Support programs and support staff gone. Security gone. Saving money on feeding children (some kids only solid meal of day), not completely gone, but most people don’t take advantage or have ability of going to pick up food - this savings. They just voted in some districts in OC to reduce the number of periods in HS from 6 to 5 and reduce the elective credits needed to graduate by 15. Hmm. So if you reduce class time and classes, do we need as many teachers teaching. Nope. Unions can’t help if School Boards and districts change curriculum or graduating guidelines - they aren’t dumb. The Unions will also make concessions, as in previous years, and sacrifice some members - these will be the very Seniored teachers who have full retirement available already. They will go after the biggest earners - district already has with those they have control over. This isn’t going in to daycare, parents who are both working, special needs programs (districts are 100% going to get sued from these parents who have IEPs as these kids educations are going to be pretty shitty), coaches losing jobs, hundred/thousands of businesses who earn income by schools being open (uniforms, equipment, cleaners, construction,etc) and on and on. If you really want to simplify it, teachers are essential. Can’t tell a Costco/Target employee he is expected to got to work for $15/hour in an uncontrollable environment and say it ok for a teacher not to work for $75-$140+/hr. I understand the health concern and fear, but believe that is more based on the media and false info rather than actual data and looking at the entire picture. In my area parents have already begun setting up classrooms at various homes, to be taught by parents with teaching credentials who are retired or at stay-at-home parents. Litigation as to how we can get back compensation for the education supplements on will in all likelihood occur. Someone will end up getting shorted. If the litigation grows to voucher topic being rehashed - could create issue for public school teachers. Add this to Blaine Amendment decision (a pretty blatant racist tactic that is implemented in CA as well) that just occurred in Montana, and public school teachers/union better start figuring out every school related decision isn’t and shouldn’t be about the paycheck


----------



## Justafan (Jul 19, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> You're holding onto that blue pill real hard.
> 
> Even if you were to draft people, you'd have to train them to do the job...and you need new people (you can't just reshuffle the people who are doing diabeties and UTI testing right now without killing those people).  For the ingredients and supplies it means building new factories and mining supplies and labs.  You are talking even throwing WWII level resources at it at least a year to get to those numbers, because we've outsourced a lot of our resource supplies and manufacturing overseas so it means starting from scratch.  Remember even with WWII level commitments and with a long lead time that we had in WWII where Roosevelt knew we'd eventually have to throw down, it took us 2 years before we were really into the fight.  Our biggest enemy even with Operation Warp Speed is time.
> 
> I know....I have to understand....most people are not ready to be unplugged from the matrix.   I can only show you the door.  You're the one that has to walk through it.


Talk about holding on to their position too hard.  So you’re an expert on “ingredients and supplies” and “factories, mining supplies, and labs.”  Sorry if I trust Harvard more than you.  And of course you know this should have been started back in February or March right?

Well It sounds like you’re an AmeriCAN’T. Sorry but I’m an AmeriCAN. I’m so confident in my position, i.e. that most Americans at this point would be willing to voluntarily lock down for 7 days and get their life back on the 8th day, why don’t we take it to the poll?

You cited examples of Democrats not adhering to the lockdown for a day or two because they went here or there. You forget they did lock down for the other 3 1/2 months.

I was actually shocked that most of America locked down as long as we did. I predicted only 1 month before people would start defying the lockdown.

How about Abbot tests for every school in America, can we do that? Remember it’s the size of a toaster not a tank. How about sanitizing dispensing fans for every school in America, do we have enough supplies to build those?

Again, if you or anyone has a better plan, I’M ALL FOR IT.  Who gives a shit who comes up with the plan.  I can sincerely tell that I don’t care if it’s Trump that comes up with a plan that takes us all out of our misery.  Let him take all the credit.  I’ve even said Hydroxychloquine seems to be ok in the early stages, so if it works it works, let’s use it, who gives a shit if Trump promotes it. 

All I hear from you is a Trump apologist.  This is where personal integrity should take over.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 19, 2020)

Justafan said:


> I didn't say that..Again, the question was would you trust the pilot, Surgeon, Financial Manager or School Bus Driver...this is the key part... if they displayed Biden's current condition?


Of course not.  But even assuming Biden is driving and flying, which he is not, I would still choose Biden over Trump.  With Biden we have a shot, with Trump it’s certain disaster.

Look, aside from the pandemic, what kind of parent pits one kid against another and openly roots for one?  Who deliberately destroys their family unit? Is it ok just because you’re the one he’s rooting for?  IF we can recover from this alone, it’s going to take a lot of time and therapy.

You guys complain because the mainstream media bans conservative viewpoints, so how does that feel?  It only creates resentment.  Same with Trump.  

Bottom line, the negative outweighs the positive with Trump.  I believe that’s a similar equation many used against Hillary.
[/QUOTE]
So you are good with higher taxes, riots, illegals and a lawless country?


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 19, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Again, the point I was making was that CNN posted their story without considering antibodies in the population and that's misleading. In a vacuum or not, the % who have antibodies matters - a lot - with or without NPI. Both examples show that. I also explicitly stated in the first post that there are other factors. I never argued otherwise. This stuff can be confusing and misleading reporting doesn't help.
> 
> Also, I figured you didn't really need all those calculations, but I wanted to see them myself. There was an added benefit. My daughter got a "virus growth" lesson today. She knows I'm crazy. She accepts it.
> 
> ...


Interesting report out about the man who donated blood to help save lives because he had covid and recovered.  First two donations he had antibodies, not sure if it was his third or fourth donation,, but antibodies were virtually gone.  Not good. Only three months since he recovered.  Hope this isn't the norm.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 19, 2020)

Not_that_Serious said:


> I haven’t gone through all the pages but I have family who teaches (one family member runs a very poor school, so I get the teachers who pay for crayons, pencils and other supplies themselves, but teachers still get paid well despiste that) and who also clean at these schools. I also had child in an experimental summer school program in a school district - until Newsom squashed it. The experimental class room implemented various guidelines- many which were taken from places like Iceland, swede , Japan, Singapore, Australia, Various Canadian states, WHO China and on and on. In all these countries they have posted actual data and official statements, specially stating, ZERO cases of kids transmitting to adults. Then the real issue is teachers and staff passing it to on another Adult and POSSIBLY to a child. If the teachers actually follow protocols like responsible adults - not a problem. In AZ the teacher who got sick didn’t get it from a child, but now using children safety as a political tool. The teachers/unions, not all, as I know many willing to get back (as seen in experimental classrooms as well), are stopping this - even going back 50%. The hybrid model was ready to go in OC, since it seems OC is the only county (and SD) looking at real data. News, Unions, State things such as “new research” or “new data” but you’ll notice they never source it or have it available when you ask for it. Unfortunately this virus has been political- from the beginning. Your wife is a teacher, and state income is a big factor about staying home, but has your family sat down and thought of the very good possibility of your wife being laid off if this goes on? The District leaders in many areas are not stupid and hire tons of experts to look at the science and finances. My original suggestion was for teachers to take a pay cut of 10% if you made over $100k. My kids teachers last year averaged $105k base salary- with a few reaching $150k total compensation. Teachers actually work 7.5-8 months after holiday time off. Teachers will not be teaching 100% of that time anymore - the districts know this. It opens them up for litigation. As it stands, due to knowing teachers will not accept pay cuts - the budget needs to shrink elsewhere. So no sports for sure this Fall, and possibly none for the rest of next year - they will just say it’s “safety”. Yet MLS, NBA and other sports going on in our state. Support programs and support staff gone. Security gone. Saving money on feeding children (some kids only solid meal of day), not completely gone, but most people don’t take advantage or have ability of going to pick up food - this savings. They just voted in some districts in OC to reduce the number of periods in HS from 6 to 5 and reduce the elective credits needed to graduate by 15. Hmm. So if you reduce class time and classes, do we need as many teachers teaching. Nope. Unions can’t help if School Boards and districts change curriculum or graduating guidelines - they aren’t dumb. The Unions will also make concessions, as in previous years, and sacrifice some members - these will be the very Seniored teachers who have full retirement available already. They will go after the biggest earners - district already has with those they have control over. This isn’t going in to daycare, parents who are both working, special needs programs (districts are 100% going to get sued from these parents who have IEPs as these kids educations are going to be pretty shitty), coaches losing jobs, hundred/thousands of businesses who earn income by schools being open (uniforms, equipment, cleaners, construction,etc) and on and on. If you really want to simplify it, teachers are essential. Can’t tell a Costco/Target employee he is expected to got to work for $15/hour in an uncontrollable environment and say it ok for a teacher not to work for $75-$140+/hr. I understand the health concern and fear, but believe that is more based on the media and false info rather than actual data and looking at the entire picture. In my area parents have already begun setting up classrooms at various homes, to be taught by parents with teaching credentials who are retired or at stay-at-home parents. Litigation as to how we can get back compensation for the education supplements on will in all likelihood occur. Someone will end up getting shorted. If the litigation grows to voucher topic being rehashed - could create issue for public school teachers. Add this to Blaine Amendment decision (a pretty blatant racist tactic that is implemented in CA as well) that just occurred in Montana, and public school teachers/union better start figuring out every school related decision isn’t and shouldn’t be about the paycheck


Wow! I want to work in that district.  The only teachers making that kind of money have been teaching 35-40 years or more, hold at least one masters degree or Phd. Please read the reports out of Israel and what happened when schools opened up.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 19, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Of course not.  But even assuming Biden is driving and flying, which he is not, I would still choose Biden over Trump.  With Biden we have a shot, with Trump it’s certain disaster.
> 
> Look, aside from the pandemic, what kind of parent pits one kid against another and openly roots for one?  Who deliberately destroys their family unit? Is it ok just because you’re the one he’s rooting for?  IF we can recover from this alone, it’s going to take a lot of time and therapy.
> 
> ...


So you are good with higher taxes, riots, illegals and a lawless country?
[/QUOTE]

You’re next serious response will be your first.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 19, 2020)

Not_that_Serious said:


> I haven’t gone through all the pages but I have family who teaches (one family member runs a very poor school, so I get the teachers who pay for crayons, pencils and other supplies themselves, but teachers still get paid well despiste that) and who also clean at these schools. I also had child in an experimental summer school program in a school district - until Newsom squashed it. The experimental class room implemented various guidelines- many which were taken from places like Iceland, swede , Japan, Singapore, Australia, Various Canadian states, WHO China and on and on. In all these countries they have posted actual data and official statements, specially stating, ZERO cases of kids transmitting to adults. Then the real issue is teachers and staff passing it to on another Adult and POSSIBLY to a child. If the teachers actually follow protocols like responsible adults - not a problem. In AZ the teacher who got sick didn’t get it from a child, but now using children safety as a political tool. The teachers/unions, not all, as I know many willing to get back (as seen in experimental classrooms as well), are stopping this - even going back 50%. The hybrid model was ready to go in OC, since it seems OC is the only county (and SD) looking at real data. News, Unions, State things such as “new research” or “new data” but you’ll notice they never source it or have it available when you ask for it. Unfortunately this virus has been political- from the beginning. Your wife is a teacher, and state income is a big factor about staying home, but has your family sat down and thought of the very good possibility of your wife being laid off if this goes on? The District leaders in many areas are not stupid and hire tons of experts to look at the science and finances. My original suggestion was for teachers to take a pay cut of 10% if you made over $100k. My kids teachers last year averaged $105k base salary- with a few reaching $150k total compensation. Teachers actually work 7.5-8 months after holiday time off. Teachers will not be teaching 100% of that time anymore - the districts know this. It opens them up for litigation. As it stands, due to knowing teachers will not accept pay cuts - the budget needs to shrink elsewhere. So no sports for sure this Fall, and possibly none for the rest of next year - they will just say it’s “safety”. Yet MLS, NBA and other sports going on in our state. Support programs and support staff gone. Security gone. Saving money on feeding children (some kids only solid meal of day), not completely gone, but most people don’t take advantage or have ability of going to pick up food - this savings. They just voted in some districts in OC to reduce the number of periods in HS from 6 to 5 and reduce the elective credits needed to graduate by 15. Hmm. So if you reduce class time and classes, do we need as many teachers teaching. Nope. Unions can’t help if School Boards and districts change curriculum or graduating guidelines - they aren’t dumb. The Unions will also make concessions, as in previous years, and sacrifice some members - these will be the very Seniored teachers who have full retirement available already. They will go after the biggest earners - district already has with those they have control over. This isn’t going in to daycare, parents who are both working, special needs programs (districts are 100% going to get sued from these parents who have IEPs as these kids educations are going to be pretty shitty), coaches losing jobs, hundred/thousands of businesses who earn income by schools being open (uniforms, equipment, cleaners, construction,etc) and on and on. If you really want to simplify it, teachers are essential. Can’t tell a Costco/Target employee he is expected to got to work for $15/hour in an uncontrollable environment and say it ok for a teacher not to work for $75-$140+/hr. I understand the health concern and fear, but believe that is more based on the media and false info rather than actual data and looking at the entire picture. In my area parents have already begun setting up classrooms at various homes, to be taught by parents with teaching credentials who are retired or at stay-at-home parents. Litigation as to how we can get back compensation for the education supplements on will in all likelihood occur. Someone will end up getting shorted. If the litigation grows to voucher topic being rehashed - could create issue for public school teachers. Add this to Blaine Amendment decision (a pretty blatant racist tactic that is implemented in CA as well) that just occurred in Montana, and public school teachers/union better start figuring out every school related decision isn’t and shouldn’t be about the paycheck


What did your family member say about your plan??  When was the last time you asked ANY first responders to take a pay cut?  Teachers are always expected to sacrifice.  And sorry, teachers are not paid well, you’re out of your mind on that one.  

Anyways, I too have family in teaching.  I saw two of them yesterday and I asked what would get you back in the classroom.  Testing every kid and staff every day: plexiglass, and sanitizing fans and materials.  How hard is that?

Now, since we know the feds aren’t coming to the rescue I will start to put more onus on Newsome.  He should start calling all the big shots in the State for donations so we can get all this testing and supplies ourselves.  He probably should have started this a while ago.   It will only benefit us all on the end .


----------



## Not_that_Serious (Jul 19, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Wow! I want to work in that district.  The only teachers making that kind of money have been teaching 35-40 years or more, hold at least one masters degree or Phd. Please read the reports out of Israel and what happened when schools opened up.


Go to transparent CA


Copa9 said:


> Wow! I want to work in that district.  The only teachers making that kind of money have been teaching 35-40 years or more, hold at least one masters degree or Phd. Please read the reports out of Israel and what happened when schools opened up.


Okay so you are ditching every other country data? In Israel their was no actual data posted to link the reopening of schools to outbreaks. Most of the reports are “possible”, “might” and more of that type of wording. That isn’t actual data, as it has been provided in other countries. The outbreak also just happened to coincide with everything else openin in society - need to stop just reading media links and dig deeper in to what else is going on. If you look at the number of deaths in Israel - it’s about 400. So claiming peril or extreme danger is pretty dishonest.
 Go to transparent CA if you want to look up salaries. I think most district workers also don’t understand how their salaries are paid and compensation packages are actually part of their total pay - benefits, retirement and other insurance packages don’t magically pay for themselves. Teachers believe since they have deductions from their checks they are paying it out of base salary - which isn’t the case. Unless you late a teacher living  in some remote area and small district, you are paid well. To state otherwise is also plain dishonesty and pushing the “we don’t get paid enough” narrative. Again, not like we can’t look up salaries. If you talk to honest people teaching, they may even tell you how to get pay hikes.

As far as pay cuts and implying teachers would like first responders - that is a poorly constructed argument. Actually pretty insulting to what first responders deal with. This actually shows a lot of the mentality school districts and parents have to deal with as many (you aren’t the first) to attempt to equate teachers to first responders. That is actually a union line used in an attempt to make the weak argument  of not cutting pay. I believe all work is essential, but many in the teaching field believe their work should be held in a higher regard than a retial worker, grocery worker or those cleaning their classrooms. My family members cleaning these classrooms are in greater danger than than their well cleaned and pretty controlled environment - they are more first responders than a teacher is. In my org all management took furloughs so NO employee was laid off. That worked out to as much as 15% Pat for some. Our company felt we are all in this together. So we took the hit. We don’t have any subsidies to fall on.  Same Can not be said with teachers as many teachers, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, school support staff, crossing guards have already been told they are being laid off. Nothing new, their is a hierarchy and established line of thinking among MOST who tow the Union line. It has worked out for most financially, who wants to rock the boat? This current situation is going to work out the same as parents are figuring out how to educate kids on their own...well unless you are poor. The people who will be screwed are those who don’t have any involvement with their districts or ability or knowledge of how this all works. Some are too busy trying to survive on reduced hours or losing their jobs. I’m sure many coaches on here know the feeling. Some of us are blessed to have some financial flexibility to ensure our children are not left out mentally in the cold. Giving up money in the short term in order to ensure survival, is only questioned by those who never have to worry about  if the next pay check will ever stop coming - usually done by those who never have been responsible for the well-being of more than themselves or immediate family. The school board members I know, and the family member who runs a school, have had to lay people off - they are full aware how devastating it is to them. Unfortunately they have said they are not given much flexibility due to union/teachers not being flexible with salaries.


----------



## whatithink (Jul 19, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Of course not.  But even assuming Biden is driving and flying, which he is not, I would still choose Biden over Trump.  With Biden we have a shot, with Trump it’s certain disaster.
> 
> Look, aside from the pandemic, what kind of parent pits one kid against another and openly roots for one?  Who deliberately destroys their family unit? Is it ok just because you’re the one he’s rooting for?  IF we can recover from this alone, it’s going to take a lot of time and therapy.
> 
> ...


So you are good with higher taxes, riots, illegals and a lawless country?
[/QUOTE]
We have riots and a lawless country now, don't we?

Obama deported more illegals than anyone before, so if Biden continues that, isn't that a good thing?

You know taxes will have to go up, right? The tax cuts under Trump were adding $1-$2T to the deficit over 10 years. We just spent TRILLIONS more we don't have. How do you think that all gets paid for? And, no, you can't cut expenditure to meet that. No company cuts costs to success. Any good, sustainable company manages costs and grows revenue. 

Likely, a democratic administration will want to raise taxes. A republican one will want to cut costs. Rationally, there should be a combination of both.

Realistically, serious money could be raised by just eliminating tax loop holes and serious money saved by ending the "corporate welfare system". Obviously our "bought and paid for" politicians on both sides of the aisle will never do either if those things.


----------



## watfly (Jul 19, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Its not false. And I am not going to debate you. But, lets just say I know and SPK know. If you need to ask or respond. Its a waste of your effort, time, and anything else. Now, if you have a background in education from a NPS, Charter and in public education, please let me know. I and SPK both have 25 years of experience for each of us.


That's a clever reply.  You say its so, so there can't be any debate...got it.  Although I'm more interested in the evidence not the debate.   I am all ears, or eyes rather, and can be easily convinced with some actual evidence (not from teachers' unions or union apologists), I provided mine from the California Department of Education.  I have no doubt that there are some charters that play fast and loose with the enrollment standards, but that's the case with anything in life, and those schools should come into compliance or lose their charter.   Accountability standards should apply to both public and charter schools.  What I do know is that the two charter high schools in our area are light years more integrated than our area public schools and the charter school provides a significantly better education than the public schools that many of the kids came from, although the charter education is comparable to the public schools in our area.  I also know that my daughter was subject to the "lottery" to attend our local charter school, her name was selected but opted not to attend.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 19, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Talk about holding on to their position too hard.  So you’re an expert on “ingredients and supplies” and “factories, mining supplies, and labs.”  Sorry if I trust Harvard more than you.  And of course you know this should have been started back in February or March right?


Sorry went to the joint.  Have seen first hand what's wrong with it and the people running it.  Part of our problem is that we are deferring too much to experts and people holding fancy credentials.  But it's comforting if you are taking the blue pill to be told by someone from the mountain that it will be all o.k. 



Justafan said:


> Well It sounds like you’re an AmeriCAN’T. Sorry but I’m an AmeriCAN. I’m so confident in my position, i.e. that most Americans at this point would be willing to voluntarily lock down for 7 days and get their life back on the 8th day, why don’t we take it to the poll?
> 
> You cited examples of Democrats not adhering to the lockdown for a day or two because they went here or there. You forget they did lock down for the other 3 1/2 months.


I'm sure if you asked everyone if you'd just lock down for 7 days and get rid of it would you support that, everyone would.  The problem is that as you've conceded it would have to be far more rigorous and go above and beyond than what Spain did, which didn't.  And when you started to ask people if they'd support the violent repression of BLM, the hard shut of the southern border, the suspension of the Constitution, or the forced removal of people from their homes, that's when you'd lose them.  Medicare for All gets big number too until you start drilling into details.  Finally, it simply not likely to work...you'd have to track down every case in 7 days, forced isolate everyone who might have been exposed, shut down the courts, and then hard shut at least the southern border in perpetuity so it doesn't start up again.   It only takes one Chris Cuomo to send the house of cards tumbling down as South Korea proved with its nightclub outbreak.



Justafan said:


> All I hear from you is a Trump apologist.  This is where personal integrity should take over.


Trump's made plenty of mistakes, among others:
-he didn't take the matter seriously until Tucker Carlson read him the riot act
-he then engaged in wishful thinking that it would go away
-he gave Fauci and the other experts too much deference and too much of a platform early on
-his own messaging was horrible on the subject.  His oval office address was riddled with errors that led to more confusion
-he is currently ignoring the second economic crisis wave which is headed for us
-he shouldn't have held the Oklahoma rally
-even though there's not a lot of science to back it up, and even though he lacks the power for a national mask requirement (hey, he can't even get the schools to all open), he could have come out more forcefully for masks

I'm hardly a Trump apologist.  Remember I knew what would happen back in January.  One of the most jaw dropping moments I had was when Trump in the state of the union treated this like it was contained in China.   Part of the issue is Fauci....he doesn't so much outright lie as engage in a series of half truths or willfully not telling the whole picture.  I think they are both awful, but I also note most political leaders and experts around the world have been horrible.


----------



## Fact (Jul 19, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Interesting report out about the man who donated blood to help save lives because he had covid and recovered.  First two donations he had antibodies, not sure if it was his third or fourth donation,, but antibodies were virtually gone.  Not good. Only three months since he recovered.  Hope this isn't the norm.


Of course the mainstream crap reports on antibodies diminishing to scare everyone.  Please look into the real line of defense and get back to me - T cells.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 19, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Sorry went to the joint.  Have seen first hand what's wrong with it and the people running it.  Part of our problem is that we are deferring too much to experts and people holding fancy credentials.  But it's comforting if you are taking the blue pill to be told by someone from the mountain that it will be all o.k.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We can agree to disagree on the effectiveness of my plan. But I will never accept that we can’t figure this thing out, whoever’s plan that may be.

If I was ever in charge, I bring together the best and the brightest our nation has to offer, I tell them to check their egos and politics at the door, I lock them in a room and tell them you ain’t coming out until you figure this out.  

Think big, let your imaginations run wild, and don’t worry about the cost.  Only one caveat, whatever the plan is, let’s also think of it as an investment in infrastructure, and make sure we can also use it for COVID 21, 22, ....... so we don’t have to go through this crap ever again.


----------



## messy (Jul 19, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I love Peru and Mexico. My wife is from Mexico. And the first time (out of many) going to Peru was a dream come true. Especially going to Cusco and Macchu Picchu.
> 
> Both those countries have issues...but both don't fall into anywhere close to let's say the Somalia example.
> 
> I get the Chile reference.


As the death rates jump up, DH looks like a fool.


----------



## messy (Jul 19, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Are you clowns are aware that those shows are classified as “entertainment” and NOT “news?”


I just love that some idiot actually said “you should watch Glenn Beck,” as he discusses information. Classic.





__





						| PolitiFact
					

PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter.




					www.politifact.com


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 19, 2020)

Here's the final order.  A small crack of daylight in the door for private and charter elementary schools.  Look at footnote 2.  Footnote 2 allows private elementary schools and charters to apply for a waiver for in person instruction.  They'll no doubt set a very high bar, the state ultimately has veto, and it does nothing to help those of us with kids in middle school, high school, or college, but perhaps some will be successful.  If you have a kid in elementary private or charter school make sure your principal knows.



			https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/CDPH%20Document%20Library/COVID-19/Schools%20Reopening%20Recommendations.pdf
		


Also the law office of Harmeet Dillon is recruiting people to file a lawsuit.  Not sure if they are any good or what the basis of their claim would be.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 19, 2020)

messy said:


> As the death rates jump up, DH looks like a fool.


What are you sniveling about now?


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 19, 2020)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Go to transparent CA
> 
> Okay so you are ditching every other country data? In Israel their was no actual data posted to link the reopening of schools to outbreaks. Most of the reports are “possible”, “might” and more of that type of wording. That isn’t actual data, as it has been provided in other countries. The outbreak also just happened to coincide with everything else openin in society - need to stop just reading media links and dig deeper in to what else is going on. If you look at the number of deaths in Israel - it’s about 400. So claiming peril or extreme danger is pretty dishonest.
> Go to transparent CA if you want to look up salaries. I think most district workers also don’t understand how their salaries are paid and compensation packages are actually part of their total pay - benefits, retirement and other insurance packages don’t magically pay for themselves. Teachers believe since they have deductions from their checks they are paying it out of base salary - which isn’t the case. Unless you late a teacher living  in some remote area and small district, you are paid well. To state otherwise is also plain dishonesty and pushing the “we don’t get paid enough” narrative. Again, not like we can’t look up salaries. If you talk to honest people teaching, they may even tell you how to get pay hikes.
> ...


 The way you make more money is to increase your units and professional education until you hit the maximum and by the number of years you teach. I have been teaching over twenty-five years and am not even close to what you say teachers make.  Oh and by the way about ten years ago we took a 10% decrease in our salaries but still had teachers pink slipped, but almost everyone of them were rehired in the fall.  I have been pink slipped early in my career, I have had my school changed early in my career, I have had my grade changed several times.  It costs money to change grade levels.  Nobody has every compensated me for the expenses incurred when that happens but I do it gladly to provide my students with the best that I can offer.  Please go to "haaretz.com " to read how almost 100 schools in Israel closed since reopening as corona cases increased. Their numbers are low but I guess Israel considers even one death, one death too many. "Schools throughout the country have closed after cases tied to students and staff members continue to climb". That is a direct quote.  Yes, other things opened up, kind of like us, but the schools became transmitters of the virus. Let's hope our schools don't.  I guess their government is better at testing and tracing than our incompetent leaders running our country.


----------



## messy (Jul 19, 2020)

I saw Trump on the news tonight. “Eventually it will go away and then I will be right.” 
He actually said that.
He’s actually not trying to defend anything, unlike his supporters here.
He’s gonna get slaughtered. He sounds like a total nut who has given up.


----------



## messy (Jul 19, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> What are you sniveling about now?


Just noting what an embarrassing idiot you are, after spending hours denying Covid by pointing out the absence of a death rate increase. LOL!


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 19, 2020)

messy said:


> Just noting what an embarrassing idiot you are, after spending hours denying Covid by pointing out the absence of a death rate increase. LOL!


Then you can't read.

I said what is very interesting is that new positives are not correspondending with a similar rise in deaths


----------



## messy (Jul 19, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Then you can't read.
> 
> I said what is very interesting is that new positives are not correspondending with a similar rise in deaths


Of course as anyone with a brain knows, more people get sick and then later, more people die. That is exactly what is happening now.
Of course, as we also know, illness in those younger and healthier, i. e. a demographic that wasn’t getting it before, is less likely to result in death. Pretty basic shit, player.
But you want to show how smart you are with your bizarro “debates.”


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 19, 2020)

So this weekend they reopened Knotts Berry Farm for a food festival and shopping (masks required but you gotta take them off to eat), but our kids still can't do socially distanced sports practice or go to school.  Also Downtown Disney is open and has been recording pretty good sized crowds.  Even they reopen Disneyland even on a limited basis like this, you'll know very clearly where the governor's priorities are.


----------



## Fact (Jul 19, 2020)

messy said:


> I just love that some idiot actually said “you should watch Glenn Beck,” as he discusses information. Classic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You’re the idiot to think that PolitiFact is unbiased.  Do your own research genius.


----------



## messy (Jul 20, 2020)

Fact said:


> You’re the idiot to think that PolitiFact is unbiased.  Do your own research genius.


I will do my own research with the stupidest method possible...I’ll use Glenn Beck as a source.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 20, 2020)

messy said:


> Of course as anyone with a brain knows, more people get sick and then later, more people die. That is exactly what is happening now.
> Of course, as we also know, illness in those younger and healthier, i. e. a demographic that wasn’t getting it before, is less likely to result in death. Pretty basic shit, player.
> But you want to show how smart you are with your bizarro “debates.”


I am right idiot. 

People like you keep talking positive cases. Guess what? Those are not translating into a huge spike of deaths. 

That is good news as we deal with the virus. 

If there were a corresponding rise in deaths, the media would be talking deaths. They are not. 

We know based on the stats, the vast vast majority of people have rather little risk.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 20, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Then you can't read.
> 
> I said what is very interesting is that new positives are not correspondending with a similar rise in deaths


One month ago you were telling us that the high case rate was just an artifact of more testing.

On the positive side, it looks like new cases are starting to drop in AZ.  Hope it continues.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 20, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> So this weekend they reopened Knotts Berry Farm for a food festival and shopping (masks required but you gotta take them off to eat), but our kids still can't do socially distanced sports practice or go to school.  Also Downtown Disney is open and has been recording pretty good sized crowds.  Even they reopen Disneyland even on a limited basis like this, you'll know very clearly where the governor's priorities are.


Well the state needs that tax revenue to pay for the teachers sitting at home. 

The virus only hangs out around schools, gyms, bbqs and the beach. Knotts Berry and Disney are safer. The Rona doesn't do amusement parks and large crowds at those venue. 

The science is settled.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 20, 2020)

dad4 said:


> One month ago you were telling us that the high case rate was just an artifact of more testing.
> 
> On the positive side, it looks like new cases are starting to drop in AZ.  Hope it continues.


I did say part of it is due to more testing. 

But I also said if you open up, you are going to see more cases. 

Look at the lockdown success story in Spain. Right? They are opening up and starting to see a jump in cases again. 

My main argument has been we know who is at risk and most people are not. We also do not know if/when/how effective a vaccine is. We cannot live like this for another year. Lets get back to work.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 20, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Well the state needs that tax revenue to pay for the teachers sitting at home.
> 
> The virus only hangs out around schools, gyms, bbqs and the beach. Knotts Berry and Disney are safer. The Rona doesn't do amusement parks and large crowds at those venue.
> 
> The science is settled.


You really should drive to Cali.  Drive Pacific Coast Highway from San Clemente to HB Pier brah!!!  You would think their is no big scare that folks will die and the youth are all over the places.  All the little shops are open.  No kids under 18 has died because of Corona or has died of something else and tested positive.  That is huge news and should be applauded.


----------



## messy (Jul 20, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I am right idiot.
> 
> People like you keep talking positive cases. Guess what? Those are not translating into a huge spike of deaths.
> 
> ...


Do yourself a favor...be quiet about the deaths for a couple of weeks, so you don't look like an idiot come first week of August.
Although I've noticed you people never care how wrong you always are.


----------



## Fact (Jul 20, 2020)

messy said:


> I will do my own research with the stupidest method possible...I’ll use Glenn Beck as a source.


You are a f’ing Moran. Show me where I said that I use Glenn Beck as my source.  Maybe the FACT that you cannot read is the reason for your stupidity?


----------



## messy (Jul 20, 2020)

Fact said:


> You are a f’ing Moran. Show me where I said that I use Glenn Beck as my source.  Maybe the FACT that you cannot read is the reason for your stupidity?


You wrote this crock and he’s wrong all the time. Nice try...

“You should watch Glenn Beck. While I don’t agree with all his preaching, he provides all the sources for his show so you can do your own fact checking.”


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Jul 20, 2020)

dad4 said:


> One month ago you were telling us that the high case rate was just an artifact of more testing.
> 
> On the positive side, it looks like new cases are starting to drop in AZ.  Hope it continues.


Hospitalizations appear to have leveled off as well which tends to lag even more than cases.


----------



## socalkdg (Jul 20, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> As I said, BIDEN will not be flying the plane, driving the bus, or operating on anybody!  Everybody around him knows this.  He’s a figurehead.
> 
> The difference with Trump is, HE actually thinks he can fly the plane, drive the bus, and operate on somebody.  YOU follow him off a cliff, not me.


How sad that these are the two choices we have.


----------



## watfly (Jul 20, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> So this weekend they reopened Knotts Berry Farm for a food festival and shopping (masks required but you gotta take them off to eat), but our kids still can't do socially distanced sports practice or go to school.  Also Downtown Disney is open and has been recording pretty good sized crowds.  Even they reopen Disneyland even on a limited basis like this, you'll know very clearly where the governor's priorities are.


I'd do most things during Covid with proper precautions, but even I might have to draw the line at going to an amusement park.  Those places are giant petri dishes even without a pandemic.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Silk and Doc Mike....lol


Iafrate.


----------



## socalkdg (Jul 20, 2020)

messy said:


> Fact said:
> You are a f’ing Moran. Show me where I said that I use Glenn Beck as my source. Maybe the FACT that you cannot read is the reason for your stupidity?
> 
> You wrote this crock and he’s wrong all the time. Nice try...
> ...


Not quite the same thing.   He states the you can fact check Glenn Beck (no idea who he is) since he provides all the sources for his show.  Thus you can find out if what he is saying is true or not.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Come on @outlaw I’m very disappointed with this response because I thought you knew me better than that pal; that argument is old and I have moved on.  So, on to the next history lesson pal:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dre, help me with this.  Do we have ANY famous black people that don't have at least 2 of the 3?

1.  Arrested for a crime.
2.  Raised by a single mother
3.  Still doesn't know his/her father?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

As I said, BIDEN will not be flying the plane, driving the bus, or operating on anybody!  Everybody around him knows this.  He’s a figurehead.

The difference with Trump is, HE actually thinks he can fly the plane, drive the bus, and operate on somebody.  YOU follow him off a cliff, not me.

Did you give me any positives on Obama or are you not man enough? O thought we were going to be intellectually honest.

FYI, I’m not reading the “accomplishments” you listed.  Some “accomplishments” may be subjective  and not every piece of legislation or regulation is necessarily positive.  Some may be.  Obama signed a lot of stuff also, so are they all winners?  Should I list every piece of legislation or regulations he signed?
[/QUOTE]

A "figurehead" running the country and representing us across the planet.  Yeah... you're really "Justamoron".


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> And you claim to be the only one who has the balls to look in the mirror and have a real discussion. You just exposed yourself. You hate Obama so much, you won’t even give him Osama Bin Laden.
> That is straight cowardice.


1.  I'm not the only one to have a real discussion.  When I ask for examples of black victims & oppression, all of you cower and hide... including Dre.
2.  You asked me for some positives... I offered a couple of guesses.  
3.  I don't hate Obama.  He didn't do enough for me to hate him.  However, he was the first to create our nation's division, did NOTHING to stop black crime and then moved to a wealthy, 90% white community on an island after crying "melting ice caps" and "that black criminal could be my son".  If you want to "give him Bin Laden", that's fine.  But you ALSO have to give him border cages... because they existed before Trump, you fucking putz.

He's full of shit and so are you, Justadummy.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> You know what I meant, don’t skirt the issue homie. But in case you missed it, you know all that shit you talked about Blacks not taking responsibility for the situation their in, blaming everyone else for their problems, and expecting handouts?
> 
> Well sir, you just described Trumps base!  So why don’t you talk the same shit about them?  There, pretty simple.


What about it?  I'm 100% correct, "Homie".  What part of that isn't accurate?  There's a lot of people that recognize it... not just Trump's "base".  You actually think, just because a career criminal loaded up on drugs and committing multiple felonies, WOKE the country up to racism?  Please... you don't actually believe that, do you?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> I have wanted to comment about the free lunch program for a while.  There certainly are children who absolutely need free lunches.  To apply for the free lunch, a form is filled out and signed.  If your income is below a certain level, number of people,  you qualify. Right.  But no proof needs to be shown. I have seen many children who "qualify" for free lunch playing with their ipads  before school or on their iphones.  I have seen them show up for our school book sales with $40,$50.  I have seen them wearing very expensive sneakers, most I could not afford. If a child needs a free lunch, absolutely give it to him/her. There is so much abuse of the system it is ridiculous.  I have been told by a friend, who was having a street party a couple years ago, who does this with his family, that they pay cash for almost everything to hide income. Lunches can and have been delivered during the shelter in place. So not problem there.


#1, people should NOT be having children they can't feed.  But the BIGGER issue here is that we've become such a butthurt country of pussies, if you DARED ask to provide proof you need some help (I'm fine with short term help), you'd have a line of ambulance chasing Dre whores going after the school district.  That's completely unacceptable.  If I have to pay $10 to send my kid on a field trip, so should you.  This waiver bullshit needs to stop.  I'm all about NOT embarrassing children... but the abuse needs to stop.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> A “Nation Divided” says it all. Trump’s epitaph. Sad.


This nation was divided well before Trump WON the election.  You don't get to blame that on him.  We put illegal alien children in cages well before Trump, too, but I can't remember a single person blaming Obama for it.  Fucking hypocrites.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> How about we don't leave it to CNN, FOX, OAN, MSNBC, etc.  Here's my f'n plan!
> 
> I use the DPA (Defense Production Act) and force the production of 100 million Abbot machines.  I use all the unemployed to work round the f'n clock and get these done in about 2-3 weeks.  I ship them out to every f'n household in America within 1 week.  Once everybody has one in their house, I tell American's that we are going to suck it up for 1 week.  Nobody leaves their f'n house, and they test every single day for 1 week.
> 
> ...


Hey, dummy, you lost me at "we use unemployed people to work..."


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 20, 2020)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Hospitalizations appear to have leveled off as well which tends to lag even more than cases.


And we didn't have a spike in deaths. 

So something has changed with the virus. 

It could be the ones who are at risk have gotten it and passed away. 
It could be less deadly

Either way what you are seeing in AZ, TX, CA, etc is not translating into large numbers of deaths. 

Quite frankly that is good news. And quite frankly we should start looking further into what that means...ie positives not turning into deaths like we and the world saw early on.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> #1, people should NOT be having children they can't feed.  But the BIGGER issue here is that we've become such a butthurt country of pussies, if you DARED ask to provide proof you need some help (I'm fine with short term help), you'd have a line of ambulance chasing Dre whores going after the school district.  That's completely unacceptable.  If I have to pay $10 to send my kid on a field trip, so should you.  This waiver bullshit needs to stop.  I'm all about NOT embarrassing children... but the abuse needs to stop.


You tell him pal.  Likewise, If you and I can acquire wealth through a trust fund and falsely claim we live in a meritocracy so should everyone else.  Trust funds for all; so everyone can pay their $10.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

messy said:


> I will do my own research with the stupidest method possible...I’ll use Glenn Beck as a source.


So you served divorce papers on Wikipedia?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Joe Biden’s family racks up arrests for drugs, drunk driving — but no jail time
					

In August 2019, Caroline Biden, 33, a niece of former Vice President Biden, was busted in Lower Merion Township, Penn., for driving under the influence and without a license, public records show. W…




					nypost.com


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

MacDre said:


> You tell him pal.  Likewise, If you and I can acquire wealth through a trust fund and falsely claim we live in a meritocracy so should everyone else.  Trust funds for all; so everyone can pay their $10.


"Trust fund" means different things to different people, Dre...

For example, to us whiteys... 40-acres and a mule.  To you melanin kids... 40-ounces and a stolen handgun with the serial # sanded off.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> 1.  I'm not the only one to have a real discussion.  When I ask for examples of black victims & oppression, all of you cower and hide... including Dre.
> 2.  You asked me for some positives... I offered a couple of guesses.
> 3.  I don't hate Obama.  He didn't do enough for me to hate him.  However, he was the first to create our nation's division, did NOTHING to stop black crime and then moved to a wealthy, 90% white community on an island after crying "melting ice caps" and "that black criminal could be my son".  If you want to "give him Bin Laden", that's fine.  But you ALSO have to give him border cages... because they existed before Trump, you fucking putz.
> 
> He's full of shit and so are you, Justadummy.


Three days after I wiped my ass with you with that “dumb ass bitch who had it coming” and this is all you got.  I sent you into hiding for three days brother, that’s how bad I beat your ass.

“if you want to give him Bin Laden, that’s fine.” So that means that YOU still won’t give him Bin Laden. Now everybody on this thread knows you’re a pussy!

You’re just an incapable whiny little bitch.  And if you ever want a real debate I’ll let you pick 3 lawyers of your choosing and we’ll go back and forth and let them decide who kicked who’s ass.  

Any time, any where, any place.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> 1.  I'm not the only one to have a real discussion.  When I ask for examples of black victims & oppression, all of you cower and hide... including Dre.
> 2.  You asked me for some positives... I offered a couple of guesses.
> 3.  I don't hate Obama.  He didn't do enough for me to hate him.  However, he was the first to create our nation's division, did NOTHING to stop black crime and then moved to a wealthy, 90% white community on an island after crying "melting ice caps" and "that black criminal could be my son".  If you want to "give him Bin Laden", that's fine.  But you ALSO have to give him border cages... because they existed before Trump, you fucking putz.
> 
> He's full of shit and so are you, Justadummy.


Three days after I wiped my ass with you with that “dumb ass bitch who had it coming” and this is all you got.  I sent you into hiding for three days brother, that’s how bad I beat your ass.

“if you want to give him Bin Laden, that’s fine.” So that means that YOU still won’t give him Bin Laden. Now everybody on this thread knows you’re a pussy!

You’re just an incapable whiny little bitch.  And if you ever want a real debate I’ll let you pick 3 lawyers of your choosing and we’ll go back and forth and let them decide who kicked who’s ass.  

Any time, any where, any place.


----------



## MacDre (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> "Trust fund" means different things to different people, Dre...
> 
> For example, to us whiteys... 40-acres and a mule.  To you melanin kids... 40-ounces and a stolen handgun with the serial # sanded off.


I just want to know why your lazy no good for nothing trifling ass is accepting handouts?  Be a man and work for yours!


----------



## Seven (Jul 20, 2020)

Just heard from dd’s xcountry coach that the season has been “pushed back” By CIF and that the state championship will be held on 3/27/21.


----------



## watfly (Jul 20, 2020)

socalkdg said:


> How sad that these are the two choices we have.


And yet here we are, people are arguing over which choice is going to suck the least.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

watfly said:


> And yet here we are, people are arguing over which choice is going to suck the least.


I wanted Pete or Klobuchar.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

A "figurehead" running the country and representing us across the planet.  Yeah... you're really "Justamoron".
[/QUOTE]



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/12/04/brief-history-world-leaders-laughing-trump/
		


I win.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Three days after I wiped my ass with you with that “dumb ass bitch who had it coming” and this is all you got.  I sent you into hiding for three days brother, that’s how bad I beat your ass.
> 
> “if you want to give him Bin Laden, that’s fine.” So that means that YOU still won’t give him Bin Laden. Now everybody on this thread knows you’re a pussy!
> 
> ...


No, you actually sent me to the coast to enjoy some down time.  But you go ahead and take credit for that... I'm just glad your ass is wiped.

Obama didn't kill Bin Laden.  Obama only kills black people by telling them they're victims.  60 shot in Chicago this weekend, putz.

A debate?  I don't need lawyers, dummy.  Why don't you give me the names of 3 innocent black people killed by police for doing nothing wrong.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Three days after I wiped my ass with you with that “dumb ass bitch who had it coming” and this is all you got.  I sent you into hiding for three days brother, that’s how bad I beat your ass.
> 
> “if you want to give him Bin Laden, that’s fine.” So that means that YOU still won’t give him Bin Laden. Now everybody on this thread knows you’re a pussy!
> 
> ...


Maybe take your hand out of your pants... you'll calm down enough to post things 1 time.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> This nation was divided well before Trump WON the election.  You don't get to blame that on him.  We put illegal alien children in cages well before Trump, too, but I can't remember a single person blaming Obama for it.  Fucking hypocrites.


Divided on you're end not ours.  Who started the birther movement?  It's like the Dodgers/Giants rivalry, as a Dodger fan I never gave a flying fuck about the Giants, they were irrelevant.  But then they started throwing all this venom towards Dodger nation.  Now, I have to retaliate and wipe my ass with them.  Comprende Amigo.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I just want to know why your lazy no good for nothing trifling ass is accepting handouts?  Be a man and work for yours!


Admit it... I made you smile with that one.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> I wanted Pete or Klobuchar.


I don't doubt for a second you wanted a gay man and an ugly woman that looks like a man.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> No, you actually sent me to the coast to enjoy some down time.  But you go ahead and take credit for that... I'm just glad your ass is wiped.
> 
> Obama didn't kill Bin Laden.  Obama only kills black people by telling them they're victims.  60 shot in Chicago this weekend, putz.
> 
> A debate?  I don't need lawyers, dummy.  Why don't you give me the names of 3 innocent black people killed by police for doing nothing wrong.


Still can't give Obama Bin Laden, you're doubling down as the biggest pussy in history.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> A "figurehead" running the country and representing us across the planet.  Yeah... you're really "Justamoron".





			https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/12/04/brief-history-world-leaders-laughing-trump/
		


I win.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah... I remember when Trudeau and the president of Mexico laughed at Trump.  Then he restructured NAFTA and they don't laugh anymore. 









						Justin Trudeau snubs Nafta meeting with Trump in Washington
					

Mexico’s president to meet Trump on Wednesday but Canada PM had spoken of concern about US tariffs on metals last week




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> No, you actually sent me to the coast to enjoy some down time.  But you go ahead and take credit for that... I'm just glad your ass is wiped.
> 
> Obama didn't kill Bin Laden.  Obama only kills black people by telling them they're victims.  60 shot in Chicago this weekend, putz.
> 
> A debate?  I don't need lawyers, dummy.  Why don't you give me the names of 3 innocent black people killed by police for doing nothing wrong.


I sent you to the coast for down time, I outdid myself.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Divided on you're end not ours.  Who started the birther movement?  It's like the Dodgers/Giants rivalry, as a Dodger fan I never gave a flying fuck about the Giants, they were irrelevant.  But then they started throwing all this venom towards Dodger nation.  Now, I have to retaliate and wipe my ass with them.  Comprende Amigo.


Definitely... more and more black people are coming together to murder each other everyday.  No division here!

By the way, I'm a Dodgers fan, too, so you can drop the Giants hate thinking everyone in NorCal likes the Halloween costumed losers.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/12/04/brief-history-world-leaders-laughing-trump/
> 
> 
> 
> I win.


Yeah... I remember when Trudeau and the president of Mexico laughed at Trump.  Then he restructured NAFTA and they don't laugh anymore.









						Justin Trudeau snubs Nafta meeting with Trump in Washington
					

Mexico’s president to meet Trump on Wednesday but Canada PM had spoken of concern about US tariffs on metals last week




					www.theguardian.com
				



[/QUOTE]

Bro, it's still NAFTA, they just rearranged the commas and the periods.  What a fuck'n dummy.  You actually fell for that?  LMAO


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> I don't doubt for a second you wanted a gay man and an ugly woman that looks like a man.


Did you forget how miserable you are right now with DT?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> I sent you to the coast for down time, I outdid myself.


You seem like the type that's out doing yourself pretty frequently.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Yeah... I remember when Trudeau and the president of Mexico laughed at Trump.  Then he restructured NAFTA and they don't laugh anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bro, it's still NAFTA, they just rearranged the commas and the periods.  What a fuck'n dummy.  You actually fell for that?  LMAO
[/QUOTE]

Is that why Justin is having a tantrum?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Did you forget how miserable you are right now with DT?


Record high economy... record employment... stronger border wall... food stamps reduced... Biden having to hide in the basement...

Yeah... just miserable.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Still can't give Obama Bin Laden, you're doubling down as the biggest pussy in history.


They say 'you are what you eat'.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Record high economy... record employment... stronger border wall... food stamps reduced... Biden having to hide in the basement...
> 
> Yeah... just miserable.


So why do you bitch and whine like a little pussy all the time?  Oh wait, that Black on Black crime is just driving me crazy!  LMAO


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> So why do you bitch and whine like a little pussy all the time?  Oh wait, that Black on Black crime is just driving me crazy!  LMAO


No... just sick of you losers bitching and painting graffiti on the streets.

I'm still waiting for you to name me 3 innocent hoodrats.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> No... just sick of you losers bitching and painting graffiti on the streets.
> 
> I'm still waiting for you to name me 3 innocent hoodrats.


None of them are innocent remember, they ALL had it coming.  Did you forget about that "dumb ass bitch" that had it coming.  Pick your three lawyers, fuck it pick just one, and we're on.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Yeah... I remember when Trudeau and the president of Mexico laughed at Trump.  Then he restructured NAFTA and they don't laugh anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bro, it's still NAFTA, they just rearranged the commas and the periods.  What a fuck'n dummy.  You actually fell for that?  LMAO
[/QUOTE]
Not taking sides in this “debate” but USMCA has made a lot of changes to what NAFTA was. Amount other things, it fixed a lot of the quota problems that worked against the US, helped the labor force in Mexico increase wages and lined the pockets of some political cronies.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> None of them are innocent remember, they ALL had it coming.  Did you forget about that "dumb ass bitch" that had it coming.  Pick your three lawyers, fuck it pick just one, and we're on.


Pick lawyers for what?  C'mon, little girl, give me the names of 3.  Or are you going to run like lawyer MacDre did?  C'mon... let's discuss 3.  Tell me about all that oppression.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

Kicker4Life said:


> Bro, it's still NAFTA, they just rearranged the commas and the periods.  What a fuck'n dummy.  You actually fell for that?  LMAO


Not taking sides in this “debate” but USMCA has made a lot of changes to what NAFTA was. Amount other things, it fixed a lot of the quota problems that worked against the US, helped the labor force in Mexico increase wages and lined the pockets of some political cronies.
[/QUOTE]

A lot of changes yes, but are they "major" changes?  I would say no.  Some of the percentages changed, but it's still a free trade agreement.  DT made it sound like he was going to make it all one sided in favor of the US.  If all three partners are happy with it, then no one got over on anybody, hence in my opinion, it's still basically the same thing.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Not taking sides in this “debate” but USMCA has made a lot of changes to what NAFTA was. Amount other things, it fixed a lot of the quota problems that worked against the US, helped the labor force in Mexico increase wages and lined the pockets of some political cronies.


A lot of changes yes, but are they "major" changes?  I would say no.  Some of the percentages changed, but it's still a free trade agreement.  DT made it sound like he was going to make it all one sided in favor of the US.  If all three partners are happy with it, then no one got over on anybody, hence in my opinion, it's still basically the same thing.
[/QUOTE]
If we werent happy with it before, and now all three partners are happy, isn't that a win? you dont have to get over on somebody to make it a successful change.  The fact that all three partners are happy is a success.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Pick lawyers for what?  C'mon, little girl, give me the names of 3.  Or are you going to run like lawyer MacDre did?  C'mon... let's discuss 3.  Tell me about all that oppression.


Bro, you're not interested in any serious discussion so stop pretending.  You can't even give Obama OBL, c'mon bro.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Not taking sides in this “debate” but USMCA has made a lot of changes to what NAFTA was. Amount other things, it fixed a lot of the quota problems that worked against the US, helped the labor force in Mexico increase wages and lined the pockets of some political cronies.


A lot of changes yes, but are they "major" changes?  I would say no.  Some of the percentages changed, but it's still a free trade agreement.  DT made it sound like he was going to make it all one sided in favor of the US.  If all three partners are happy with it, then no one got over on anybody, hence in my opinion, it's still basically the same thing.
[/QUOTE]

"Trump made it sound like he was going to make it all one sided..."  LMAO!


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> A lot of changes yes, but are they "major" changes?  I would say no.  Some of the percentages changed, but it's still a free trade agreement.  DT made it sound like he was going to make it all one sided in favor of the US.  If all three partners are happy with it, then no one got over on anybody, hence in my opinion, it's still basically the same thing.


If we werent happy with it before, and now all three partners are happy, isn't that a win? you dont have to get over on somebody to make it a successful change.  The fact that all three partners are happy is a success.
[/QUOTE]

It was a success before is my point.  Who wasn't happy?  All the companies that did business with Mexico and Canada were happy.  

It's like this whole China thing.  There's a trade deficit because we are the biggest consumers on the planet and we like a 2XL all cotton T-shirt at Walmart for $3.99.  And people tend to forget that China actually has leverage in negotiations.  We are just so used to having all the leverage that we can't handle somebody else having leverage.

NOBODY, put a gun to these companies heads to give up their intellectual property.  They did it because after doing their cost benefit analysis they decided giving up the intellectual property WAS WORTH access to 1.2 billion customers.  Both sides have leverage.

The world has changed and become much more competitive.  It's not 1992 were we can just show up with the Dream Team and crush everybody by 60.  We actually have to work harder for the same results.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Bro, you're not interested in any serious discussion so stop pretending.  You can't even give Obama OBL, c'mon bro.


You're the loser sniveling about lawyers.  C'mon, clown, give me 3 names of innocent black people killed by cops.  Is it THAT difficult?

... and I never said I wouldn't give Bin Laden to Obama.  And you might stop saying "Obama Bin Laden" since they both did significant damage to our country.  I said that if you were going to credit Barack and Big Mike, you ALSO have to admonish them for putting illegals in cages and not just act like Trump invented that concept.  









						Obama officials rushed to explain photos from 2014 that went viral showing locked-up immigrant children — and Trump's facilities look the same
					

Several 2014 photos of detained immigrant children resurfaced and went viral in May. Former Obama administration officials tried to explain the context behind the photos, which appeared to show migrant kids locked up in cages. Recent photos of Trump administration detainment centers look the same.




					www.businessinsider.com


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> A lot of changes yes, but are they "major" changes?  I would say no.  Some of the percentages changed, but it's still a free trade agreement.  DT made it sound like he was going to make it all one sided in favor of the US.  If all three partners are happy with it, then no one got over on anybody, hence in my opinion, it's still basically the same thing.


"Trump made it sound like he was going to make it all one sided..."  LMAO!

View attachment 8204
[/QUOTE]

Have you met DT?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> If we werent happy with it before, and now all three partners are happy, isn't that a win? you dont have to get over on somebody to make it a successful change.  The fact that all three partners are happy is a success.


It was a success before is my point.  Who wasn't happy?  All the companies that did business with Mexico and Canada were happy. 

It's like this whole China thing.  There's a trade deficit because we are the biggest consumers on the planet and we like a 2XL all cotton T-shirt at Walmart for $3.99.  And people tend to forget that China actually has leverage in negotiations.  We are just so used to having all the leverage that we can't handle somebody else having leverage.

NOBODY, put a gun to these companies heads to give up their intellectual property.  They did it because after doing their cost benefit analysis they decided giving up the intellectual property WAS WORTH access to 1.2 billion customers.  Both sides have leverage.

The world has changed and become much more competitive.  It's not 1992 were we can just show up with the Dream Team and crush everybody by 60.  We actually have to work harder for the same results.
[/QUOTE]

Yes... it was a win for Trump and us.  Nonbinary Trudeau is having a tantrum and Mexico doesn't say shit anymore.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> "Trump made it sound like he was going to make it all one sided..."  LMAO!
> 
> View attachment 8204


Have you met DT?
[/QUOTE]

No... and I don't plan to.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 20, 2020)

dad4 said:


> One month ago you were telling us that the high case rate was just an artifact of more testing.
> 
> On the positive side, it looks like new cases are starting to drop in AZ.  Hope it continues.


All high school sports in California postponed until at least Dec. maybe Jan.  Per CIF.


----------



## Fact (Jul 20, 2020)

messy said:


> I will do my own research with the stupidest method possible...I’ll use Glenn Beck as a source.





messy said:


> You wrote this crock and he’s wrong all the time. Nice try...
> 
> “You should watch Glenn Beck. While I don’t agree with all his preaching, he provides all the sources for his show so you can do your own fact checking.”


Why don’t you fact check what you wrote yourself dipshit. I am out, waste of breath to provide facts to an idiot.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> If we werent happy with it before, and now all three partners are happy, isn't that a win? you dont have to get over on somebody to make it a successful change.  The fact that all three partners are happy is a success.


It was a success before is my point.  Who wasn't happy?  All the companies that did business with Mexico and Canada were happy. 

It's like this whole China thing.  There's a trade deficit because we are the biggest consumers on the planet and we like a 2XL all cotton T-shirt at Walmart for $3.99.  And people tend to forget that China actually has leverage in negotiations.  We are just so used to having all the leverage that we can't handle somebody else having leverage.

NOBODY, put a gun to these companies heads to give up their intellectual property.  They did it because after doing their cost benefit analysis they decided giving up the intellectual property WAS WORTH access to 1.2 billion customers.  Both sides have leverage.

The world has changed and become much more competitive.  It's not 1992 were we can just show up with the Dream Team and crush everybody by 60.  We actually have to work harder for the same results.
[/QUOTE]
Who wasnt happy? Both Republicans and Democrats.  Joe Biden was repeatedly called out for supporting it. lol









						Democrats itching to take down Biden over free-trade past
					

The former VP's rivals home in on what they see as his Achilles' heel.




					www.politico.com


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> "Trump made it sound like he was going to make it all one sided..."  LMAO!
> 
> View attachment 8204


Have you met DT?
[/QUOTE]

Where'd you go, sweetheart?  You feverishly searching for 3 innocent black victims?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> All high school sports in California postponed until at least Dec. maybe Jan.  Per CIF.


_"Following this announcement, each CIF Section Office will release their own calendar to reflect regular season starting and ending dates and Section playoffs. It is anticipated that most Section start dates will commence in December 2020 or January 2021."_

Sounds to me like there's still some wiggle room there based on local offices.


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> _"Following this announcement, each CIF Section Office will release their own calendar to reflect regular season starting and ending dates and Section playoffs. It is anticipated that most Section start dates will commence in December 2020 or January 2021."_
> 
> Sounds to me like there's still some wiggle room there based on local offices.


I would also say it's contingent on schools starting in-person classes.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I would also say it's contingent on schools starting in-person classes.


So what do we do when a percentage attends part time?  Do you wait for 100% participation?


----------



## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> So what do we do when a percentage attends part time?  Do you wait for 100% participation?


those who will stay home most likely don't play HS sports anyway


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Have you met DT?


Where'd you go, sweetheart?  You feverishly searching for 3 innocent black victims?
[/QUOTE]

Take a whiff of your handkerchief and tell me where you think I was.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 20, 2020)

msoccerm said:


> Do you really think Biden would be a candidate if he actually had dementia?


Yes, he shows clear signs of early stages...and it only progresses


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 20, 2020)

msoccerm said:


> Do you really think Biden would be a candidate if he actually had dementia?


Do you really thing all those with TDS wouldn't vote for him if he did?


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 20, 2020)

messy said:


> I saw Trump on the news tonight. “Eventually it will go away and then I will be right.”
> He actually said that.
> He’s actually not trying to defend anything, unlike his supporters here.
> He’s gonna get slaughtered. He sounds like a total nut who has given up.


Translation: "I'm a self-absorbed petulant sore loser still wetting myself over 3 years later."

...yawn.


----------



## messy (Jul 20, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Translation: "I'm a self-absorbed petulant sore loser still wetting myself over 3 years later."
> 
> ...yawn.


Sounds like you’re the sore loser, son.
Or are you a “winner?”


----------



## messy (Jul 20, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Do you really thing all those with TDS wouldn't vote for him if he did?


Man, you sound angry.
I understand, son. Your hero is a laughingstock.
Have you ever seen 38% approval ratings before? 
Or are they “fake polls?”


----------



## messy (Jul 20, 2020)

Fact said:


> Why don’t you fact check what you wrote yourself dipshit. I am out, waste of breath to provide facts to an idiot.


Huh? You should sort your thoughts before you write them down, incomprehensibly, in anger.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Where'd you go, sweetheart?  You feverishly searching for 3 innocent black victims?


Take a whiff of your handkerchief and tell me where you think I was.
[/QUOTE]

Hey, there you are!  You're in my sinuses?  Ass pocket?

How'd the hour go on the exercise yard, you fucking hoodrat criminal?  Are you able to play handball with the Surenos or are you stuck in a 1-man cage?


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 20, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> All high school sports in California postponed until at least Dec. maybe Jan.  Per CIF.


No foosball? I gotta have sum a dat foosball!”


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Take a whiff of your handkerchief and tell me where you think I was.


Hey, there you are!  You're in my sinuses?  Ass pocket?

How'd the hour go on the exercise yard, you fucking hoodrat criminal?  Are you able to play handball with the Surenos or are you stuck in a 1-man cage?
[/QUOTE]

If you actually had any balls and could pull the trigger you'd be in here with me, pussy.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Take a whiff of your handkerchief and tell me where you think I was.


Hey, there you are!  You're in my sinuses?  Ass pocket?

How'd the hour go on the exercise yard, you fucking hoodrat criminal?  Are you able to play handball with the Surenos or are you stuck in a 1-man cage?
[/QUOTE]

A fucking criminal hoodrat kicking your ass from the inside, now how pathetic are you?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Hey, there you are!  You're in my sinuses?  Ass pocket?
> 
> How'd the hour go on the exercise yard, you fucking hoodrat criminal?  Are you able to play handball with the Surenos or are you stuck in a 1-man cage?


If you actually had any balls and could pull the trigger you'd be in here with me, pussy.
[/QUOTE]

Where... in a concrete building with 2,000 other mean wearing pants around their knees and looking for love?  Sorry... I'm too smart for that.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Hey, there you are!  You're in my sinuses?  Ass pocket?
> 
> How'd the hour go on the exercise yard, you fucking hoodrat criminal?  Are you able to play handball with the Surenos or are you stuck in a 1-man cage?


A fucking criminal hoodrat kicking your ass from the inside, now how pathetic are you?
[/QUOTE]

Damn... another double post from you.  You really THAT triggered or just have both hands in your pants?

Speaking of... where are my names of 3 innocent black people killed by cops?  Still waiting...


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Hey, there you are!  You're in my sinuses?  Ass pocket?
> 
> How'd the hour go on the exercise yard, you fucking hoodrat criminal?  Are you able to play handball with the Surenos or are you stuck in a 1-man cage?


A fucking criminal hoodrat kicking your ass from the inside, now how pathetic are you?
[/QUOTE]

Yeah... you're winning.  How's the denim collection in their?


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> A fucking criminal hoodrat kicking your ass from the inside, now how pathetic are you?


Yeah... you're winning.  How's the denim collection in their?
[/QUOTE]

What size are you, I'll hook you up?


----------



## MacDre (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> A fucking criminal hoodrat kicking your ass from the inside, now how pathetic are you?


Damn... another double post from you.  You really THAT triggered or just have both hands in your pants?

Speaking of... where are my names of 3 innocent black people killed by cops?  Still waiting...
[/QUOTE]
Fuck that!  You name any person that deserves death for resisting arrest?


----------



## messy (Jul 20, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Take a whiff of your handkerchief and tell me where you think I was.


Hey, there you are!  You're in my sinuses?  Ass pocket?

How'd the hour go on the exercise yard, you fucking hoodrat criminal?  Are you able to play handball with the Surenos or are you stuck in a 1-man cage?
[/QUOTE]

I think Outlaw gets, ahem, worked up thinking about sweaty, bad men. He talks about it a lot.
You go, girl.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

MacDre said:


> Damn... another double post from you.  You really THAT triggered or just have both hands in your pants?
> 
> Speaking of... where are my names of 3 innocent black people killed by cops?  Still waiting...


Fuck that!  You name any person that deserves death for resisting arrest?
[/QUOTE]

I have never said "deserves death", Dre.  I have, however, said they died because of their own actions.  As in, "you chose to be a criminal and you chose to resist arrest."  Your buddy didn't die because a cop sat on him.  He died because he was committing felonies, on multiple drugs, had Covid and other ailments.  His autopsy, from an unbiased physician, said that in the report.  The one the NAACP paid for, of course, did not.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Yeah... you're winning.  How's the denim collection in their?


What size are you, I'll hook you up?
[/QUOTE]

3 innocent black people killed by cops... tick tock... tick tock...


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

messy said:


> Hey, there you are!  You're in my sinuses?  Ass pocket?
> 
> How'd the hour go on the exercise yard, you fucking hoodrat criminal?  Are you able to play handball with the Surenos or are you stuck in a 1-man cage?


I think Outlaw gets, ahem, worked up thinking about sweaty, bad men. He talks about it a lot.
You go, girl.
[/QUOTE]

He has a fetish strong Black and Brown men, that's why he gets all riled up with me and Dre.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 20, 2020)

Justafan said:


> I think Outlaw gets, ahem, worked up thinking about sweaty, bad men. He talks about it a lot.
> You go, girl.


He has a fetish strong Black and Brown men, that's why he gets all riled up with me and Dre.
[/QUOTE]

I get riled up making you look stupid and mocking the fact that black people are the least educated and lowest performing in the classroom.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 20, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> those who will stay home most likely don't play HS sports anyway


You know this how?


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 20, 2020)

When truth and satire collide.

"Not Satisfied With Just Having Summers Off, Teachers Push For Fall, Winter, Spring"









						Not Satisfied With Just Having Summers Off, Teachers Push For Fall, Winter, Spring
					

U.S.—Studies have shown teachers are the laziest people on the planet, only working nine months and doing absolutely nothing for three months of the year. What's more, when they do work, teachers wander into school at 7 and go home at 2, having done nothing all day but press play on Bill Nye the...




					babylonbee.com


----------



## whatithink (Jul 20, 2020)

This isn't helpful for school or soccer for older kids (10-19).

From the article

_"The team monitored nearly 65,000 patients for about 10 days after a coronavirus infection was detected.

They found that a total of 11.8 percent of household contacts of these “index patients” had COVID-19 infection. In households with patients between 10 and 19 years old, nearly 19 percent of household contacts had infection."_









						Coronavirus transmission higher among older school children, study finds
					

A study out of South Korea found higher rates of COVID-19 transmission among older school-aged children.




					www.foxnews.com


----------



## Justafan (Jul 20, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> When truth and satire collide.
> 
> "Not Satisfied With Just Having Summers Off, Teachers Push For Fall, Winter, Spring"
> 
> ...


Go show that article to your kids’ teachers.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 21, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Still can't give Obama Bin Laden, you're doubling down as the biggest pussy in history.


I heard Obama was against killing that towel head before he was for it.


----------



## messy (Jul 21, 2020)

If only Hillary were President, we’d all be going to sporting events and concerts right now...


----------



## paytoplay (Jul 21, 2020)

Thanks a lot Trump!!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 21, 2020)

messy said:


> If only Hillary were President, we’d all be going to sporting events and concerts right now...


Why is that?  Is she withholding the vaccine in her Epstein bunker?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 21, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> I heard Obama was against killing that towel head before he was for it.
> View attachment 8212











						Bin Laden wanted to kill Obama to make Joe Biden president
					

Declassified documents seized from Bin Laden's Pakistan compound as he was killed in May 2011 reveal his plans to throw the U.S. 'into a crisis' by killing Obama and leaving Joe Biden in charge.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 21, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Go show that article to your kids’ teachers.


No need to. My kids Catholic School admin and teachers are excellent and committed to the students. They were  fully prepared to safely reopen had it not been for the scourge of unions and Democrats.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 21, 2020)

paytoplay said:


> Thanks a lot Trump!!


Image wetting yourself for over 4 more years.


----------



## justneededaname (Jul 21, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> No need to. My kids Catholic School admin and teachers are excellent and committed to the students. They were  fully prepared to safely reopen had it not been for the scourge of unions and Democrats.


My son's high school (private) sent out an email to parents yesterday saying they intend to push back against the governor's order and do everything they can to be able to open on time. They have had students on-site safely since mid-June for summer school.

I wish them the best of luck. But not sure I want my son to play the role of Brian Moreland


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 21, 2020)

justneededaname said:


> My son's high school (private) sent out an email to parents yesterday saying they intend to push back against the governor's order and do everything they can to be able to open on time. They have had students on-site safely since mid-June for summer school.
> 
> I wish them the best of luck. But not sure I want my son to play the role of Brian Moreland


Time parents push back as well.


----------



## Fact (Jul 21, 2020)

Apparently our wonderful Governor forgot to mention that there is an exemption for elementary schools but I am not sure whether that is just a carrot to ease people into the idea that all are doomed


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 21, 2020)

Fact said:


> Apparently our wonderful Governor forgot to mention that there is an exemption for elementary schools but I am not sure whether that is just a carrot to ease people into the idea that all are doomed


Curious. What is the exemption?


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 21, 2020)

Fact said:


> Apparently our wonderful Governor forgot to mention that there is an exemption for elementary schools but I am not sure whether that is just a carrot to ease people into the idea that all are doomed


As mentioned above you have to apply for a waiver for elementary schools.  It's in a footnote that's how hard they are trying to bury it.  I posted the document earlier. County health has to sign off and the state gets a veto.  Public school districts that have already announced closures won't be using it.  Charter schools and private schools might, but the documentation they are requiring is very steep and you can only get it right now if you have basically a physician vouching for the school.  My son's elementary school was promised by county health that they could reopen (and told the parents that they would reopen based on that assurance) but now they are being told they have to go through the process of applying for this waiver and the paperwork is daunting.  So it's unclear how much of a window this really is, and the unions will fight private and charters using it because they don't want to be lectured why are you closed but x y z is open.  

I hear a few of the boarding schools and one very elite private high school is Los Angeles are trying to push through special exemptions for themselves, but you have the same issue.....if they grant the waiver for these favored few lots of private schools will then complain "how about me ".


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 21, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Curious. What is the exemption?



See footnote 2



			https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/CDPH%20Document%20Library/COVID-19/Schools%20Reopening%20Recommendations.pdf


----------



## Fact (Jul 21, 2020)

I


Grace T. said:


> As mentioned above you have to apply for a waiver for elementary schools.  It's in a footnote that's how hard they are trying to bury it.  I posted the document earlier. County health has to sign off and the state gets a veto.  Public school districts that have already announced closures won't be using it.  Charter schools and private schools might, but the documentation they are requiring is very steep and you can only get it right now if you have basically a physician vouching for the school.  My son's elementary school was promised by county health that they could reopen (and told the parents that they would reopen based on that assurance) but now they are being told they have to go through the process of applying for this waiver and the paperwork is daunting.  So it's unclear how much of a window this really is, and the unions will fight private and charters using it because they don't want to be lectured why are you closed but x y z is open.
> 
> I hear a few of the boarding schools and one very elite private high school is Los Angeles are trying to push through special exemptions for themselves, but you have the same issue.....if they grant the waiver for these favored few lots of private schools will then complain "how about me ".


I should have known that you were on top of this...good luck


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 21, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> See footnote 2
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/CDPH%20Document%20Library/COVID-19/Schools%20Reopening%20Recommendations.pdf


Thanks


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 21, 2020)

Fact said:


> Apparently our wonderful Governor forgot to mention that there is an exemption for elementary schools but I am not sure whether that is just a carrot to ease people into the idea that all are doomed


its for private schools like the ones his kids go to that can afford mitigation meassures, good luck getting teachers unions on board for public schools.









						California districts can seek waiver for elementary schools from ban on in-school instruction
					

County health directors would decide whether to allow small groups of students into schools or open up districts in remote corners of counties.




					edsource.org


----------



## EOTL (Jul 21, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> I heard Obama was against killing that towel head before he was for it.
> View attachment 8212


You cool with this @MARsSPEED?


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 21, 2020)

I was sent a copy of the lawsuit against Governor Newsom to force him to reopen the school.  It sets out 5 grounds.   2 of the grounds are going no where: they cite due process....the argument has been beaten back in other lawsuits elsewhere and isn't going anywhere in blue California.  2 of the grounds are interesting but aren't going to open up the schools (they could just get more robust support to these groups): discrimination against those with disabilities and disparate impact on minority communities.  But he has a problem with one of the grounds they are citing...equal protection. The crux of the argument is he is leaving day care centers and the summer camps (already authorized) alone and there's no rationale basis to distinguish between these activites (where there can be similar transmission) and those in schools.  He didn't even given them the opportunity to go outside only like some camps.  I think there's something to this claim....at least under California law....might force him to also shut day care in the fall...with summer camps rendered moot but don't think winter camps will happen then.  It also makes it much less likely the restrictions on youth sports can be lifted (because it will give more fuel to the fire).  The problem for the lawsuit is they are unlikely to get an injunction in blue California so getting to a hearing will take time.   But there is a vulnerability there and I think the vulnerability is enough to prevent the reopening of youth sports so long as schools are closed.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 21, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> I was sent a copy of the lawsuit against Governor Newsom to force him to reopen the school.  It sets out 5 grounds.   2 of the grounds are going no where: they cite due process....the argument has been beaten back in other lawsuits elsewhere and isn't going anywhere in blue California.  2 of the grounds are interesting but aren't going to open up the schools (they could just get more robust support to these groups): discrimination against those with disabilities and disparate impact on minority communities.  But he has a problem with one of the grounds they are citing...equal protection. The crux of the argument is he is leaving day care centers and the summer camps (already authorized) alone and there's no rationale basis to distinguish between these activites (where there can be similar transmission) and those in schools.  He didn't even given them the opportunity to go outside only like some camps.  I think there's something to this claim....at least under California law....might force him to also shut day care in the fall...with summer camps rendered moot but don't think winter camps will happen then.  It also makes it much less likely the restrictions on youth sports can be lifted (because it will give more fuel to the fire).  The problem for the lawsuit is they are unlikely to get an injunction in blue California so getting to a hearing will take time.   But there is a vulnerability there and I think the vulnerability is enough to prevent the reopening of youth sports so long as schools are closed.


Students are legally required to attend school, but not day care or summer camp. If they want to risk their lives voluntarily, that’s one thing. But when the options for many children who lack the ability to home school is either die of coronavirus or go to jail if you don’t, you have a rational basis. But just give children the option of attending online or in person you say? That is simply cost prohibitive for most schools, so more rational basis. Online is also not financially possible for many students who lack access to online resources which, ironically, would be the real equal protection problem.

Primary education is also fundamentally different than summer camp and day care. It is critically important that it be done right to the full extent possible, and splitting finite resources between online and in person screws everyone because they’re both half a**sed. I also have doubts about summer camp especially being a real issue since everyone is essentially similarly situated in that they get online school but no summer camp. It’s a little like a kid claiming there’s an equal protection problem because kids must attend school online but he can’t legally drink beer. 

The scope is also much different in a way that makes the risk of transmission - and to a much larger group of people - monumentally higher. We would be looking at hundreds of thousands of more cases and six figure death increases if schools reopen, which is about as rational basis as it gets


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 21, 2020)

EOTL said:


> But when the options for many children who lack the ability to home school is either die of coronavirus or go to jail if you don’t, you have a rational basis


The stats don't show that. In Cal zero kids under 17 have died.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 21, 2020)

EOTL said:


> You cool with this @MARsSPEED?


Why are you asking him? Is he a goat fucking camel jockey too?


----------



## EOTL (Jul 21, 2020)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Why are you asking him? Is he a goat fucking camel jockey too?











						Votto among Reds players to kneel during anthem
					

Cincinnati Reds players Joey Votto, Amir Garrett, Phillip Ervin and Alex Blandino knelt during the national anthem before Tuesday's exhibition game.




					www.espn.com


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 21, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Votto among Reds players to kneel during anthem
> 
> 
> Cincinnati Reds players Joey Votto, Amir Garrett, Phillip Ervin and Alex Blandino knelt during the national anthem before Tuesday's exhibition game.
> ...


Why did you post that? Is Votto a goat fucking towel head too?


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 21, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Students are legally required to attend school, but not day care or summer camp. If they want to risk their lives voluntarily, that’s one thing. But when the options for many children who lack the ability to home school is either die of coronavirus or go to jail if you don’t, you have a rational basis. But just give children the option of attending online or in person you say? That is simply cost prohibitive for most schools, so more rational basis. Online is also not financially possible for many students who lack access to online resources which, ironically, would be the real equal protection problem.
> 
> Primary education is also fundamentally different than summer camp and day care. It is critically important that it be done right to the full extent possible, and splitting finite resources between online and in person screws everyone because they’re both half a**sed. I also have doubts about summer camp especially being a real issue since everyone is essentially similarly situated in that they get online school but no summer camp. It’s a little like a kid claiming there’s an equal protection problem because kids must attend school online but he can’t legally drink beer.
> 
> The scope is also much different in a way that makes the risk of transmission - and to a much larger group of people - monumentally higher. We would be looking at hundreds of thousands of more cases and six figure death increases if schools reopen, which is about as rational basis as it gets


Well that is one way to defend it.  Wouldn't be surprised if parts of this make it into the defense. But that's a problem for the state because it means they have to prove the factual parts of your argument and not just have this particular claim dismissed on summary judgment.  I'm not saying the lawsuit is a slam dunk (far from) just that one part of the lawsuit actually has an argument.  The argument though will likely make youth sports impossible.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 21, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> The stats don't show that. In Cal zero kids under 17 have died.


I think the deaths from school openings would be among the elderly, not the kids.

Clearly not six figures, though.   Even NY didnt have six figure deaths.


----------



## msoccerm (Jul 21, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Yes, he shows clear signs of early stages...and it only progresses


And your source is Fox News or Trump? lol


----------



## watfly (Jul 21, 2020)

EOTL said:


> It is critically important that it be done right to the full extent possible, and splitting finite resources between online and in person screws everyone because they’re both half a**sed.


Valid argument and I don't doubt that would be the case, however, the public schools, or maybe rather the teachers, completely half-assed online learning this past spring without anyone attending in person.  Maybe the online learning will be improved in the fall, but I'm not holding my breath.  Personally, I'd rather have half-assed in person learning than half-assed online learning, but obviously neither is ideal.


----------



## Imtired (Jul 21, 2020)

All I can say is I’m grateful my kids are no longer in school.  So much is known about this virus.  Now doctor’s are seeing alarming lung damage in children.  Want your soccer athlete to suffer from permanent lung damage?   Glad I don’t have to agonize over these choices.    https://cbs12.com/news/local/doctors-concerned-that-covid-19-may-be-harming-lungs-of-children


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 21, 2020)

Imtired said:


> All I can say is I’m grateful my kids are no longer in school.  So much is known about this virus.  Now doctor’s are seeing alarming lung damage in children.  Want your soccer athlete to suffer from permanent lung damage?   Glad I don’t have to agonize over these choices.    https://cbs12.com/news/local/doctors-concerned-that-covid-19-may-be-harming-lungs-of-children


Seriously happy for you and Maps Im Tired.  Maps dd timing was amazing.  Got out in the nick of time.  My dd got a bag of rocks with that GDA league after winning the Natty and now this virus   One bad news after another it seems in club soccer.  Article seemed to be about her speculation on what *COULD *happen.  I do not speak as a Dr or health expert.  I just read the article and her quotes and give my opinion.  Please do not mistake me for an expert in Corona or club soccer.  

Dr. Alina Alonso, director of the Florida Department of Health in Palm Beach County, says when some kids get coronavirus, *the long-term effects are unknown. She’s worried enough about this that she shared her concerns with Palm Beach County commissioners. 

“I’m very concerned in terms of the children because of that long-term damage," she said. "We have no idea what that will look like." *

“In the five to 14-year-olds, when those children are examined, *there are changes in the lungs that have occurred,"* she said. *"We have no idea what the long-term effect of this will be."  *

COVID-19 may also affect the lungs of toddlers, according to Alonso. She says doctors are seeing changes in the lungs in chest X-rays, specifically in children ages zero to four.

*“It might* affect them in terms of chronic asthma or any other respiratory problems, so we gotta keep a close eye on that," she sad.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 21, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Students are legally required to attend school, but not day care or summer camp. If they want to risk their lives voluntarily, that’s one thing. But when the options for many children who lack the ability to home school is either die of coronavirus or go to jail if you don’t, you have a rational basis. But just give children the option of attending online or in person you say? That is simply cost prohibitive for most schools, so more rational basis. Online is also not financially possible for many students who lack access to online resources which, ironically, would be the real equal protection problem.
> 
> Primary education is also fundamentally different than summer camp and day care. It is critically important that it be done right to the full extent possible, and splitting finite resources between online and in person screws everyone because they’re both half a**sed. I also have doubts about summer camp especially being a real issue since everyone is essentially similarly situated in that they get online school but no summer camp. It’s a little like a kid claiming there’s an equal protection problem because kids must attend school online but he can’t legally drink beer.
> 
> The scope is also much different in a way that makes the risk of transmission - and to a much larger group of people - monumentally higher. We would be looking at hundreds of thousands of more cases and six figure death increases if schools reopen, which is about as rational basis as it gets


Online is financially possible. There are charter schools that are online. 100% free because they are publically funded. Are you talking about having a computer and internet access is not financially possible? Even then schools can loan out laptops and the state can provide assistance for educational needs if you are in an online charter school. Just have to do the research. You dont seem to know what you are talking about.


----------



## MARsSPEED (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> You cool with this @MARsSPEED?


No, I am not cool with it but like I said, you have your own people that are just as racist and much worse. Are you cool with this?


----------



## EOTL (Jul 22, 2020)

MARsSPEED said:


> No, I am not cool with it but like I said, you have your own people that are just as racist and much worse. Are you cool with this?
> View attachment 8228


Actually I don’t. I see. You give the racists here a pass and often support them, yet you oppose thise who stand up to it. Collaborator is the word for you.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)




----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 22, 2020)

msoccerm said:


> And your source is Fox News or Trump? lol


This is what being an inch deep coupled with TDS looks like.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 22, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> A fucking criminal hoodrat kicking your ass from the inside, now how pathetic are you?


Damn... another double post from you.  You really THAT triggered or just have both hands in your pants?

Speaking of... where are my names of 3 innocent black people killed by cops?  Still waiting...
[/QUOTE]
...typing with one hand.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

Fact said:


> Apparently our wonderful Governor forgot to mention that there is an exemption for elementary schools but I am not sure whether that is just a carrot to ease people into the idea that all are doomed


Our governor sends his kids to a $25k per year private school... so, like everything else, he's not affected.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Actually I don’t. I see. You give the racists here a pass and often support them, yet you oppose thise who stand up to it. Collaborator is the word for you.


Stand up by doing what... posing for moronic pictures?  A white boy would have kicked his fucking ass... so he found a toddler.  

"Thise" who stand up aren't standing for anything.  If they had any fucking backbone or self pride at all, they'd admit it's a desperate attempt to compensate for lack of achievement in society.  If we've learned anything, it's that black lives don't matter to black people unless there's sympathy and money to be made.


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Actually I don’t. I see. You give the racists here a pass and often support them, yet you oppose thise who stand up to it. Collaborator is the word for you.


The word for you and your ilk is pretend. Like expecting all of us to pretend Biden is of sound mind or protests are peaceful. In conjunction with pretend, you employ ignore...as in, ignoring the facts as seen and on the ground. In doing so, your little game is to apply false equivalency...the left is not, nor ever will be equal, you are less than...much less than.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 22, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> its for private schools like the ones his kids go to that can afford mitigation meassures, good luck getting teachers unions on board for public schools.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, like your middle aged overweight ass would be comfortable going into a bar, the size of a classroom, and have 30 patrons breath in your direction without masks for 50 minutes, 6X a day, 5 days a week.

Talk about TDS, Teacher Derangement Syndrome!


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 22, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Yeah, like your middle aged overweight ass would be comfortable going into a bar, the size of a classroom, and have 30 patrons breath in your direction without masks for 50 minutes, 6X a day, 5 days a week.
> 
> Talk about TDS, Teacher Derangement Syndrome!


That's it? lame retort.


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 22, 2020)

There's some evidence beginning to develop the southern outbreak is at or slightly past peak.  Data coming out of Mexico seems to indicate the same.  Recall I said a week ago Los Angeles was likely at it's peak +/- 2 weeks.  Or course now we can argue if relocks did it or if this is just a natural progression, but if it's relocks it wasn't very serious ones and school closures had 0 impact.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285979344179990528


----------



## Justafan (Jul 22, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Stand up by doing what... posing for moronic pictures?  A white boy would have kicked his fucking ass... so he found a toddler.


Show me three innocent White toddlers.   Tik Tok....Tik Tok....Tik Tok.....


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 22, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Yeah, like your middle aged overweight ass would be comfortable going into a bar, the size of a classroom, and have 30 patrons breath in your direction without masks for 50 minutes, 6X a day, 5 days a week.
> 
> Talk about TDS, Teacher Derangement Syndrome!


Lol, im still in my mid 30's bro and healthy.  i think im safe, im not the one scared of this virus that kills people in their 80s like espola or already sick.  You seem very unstable by the way.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 22, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> Damn... another double post from you.  You really THAT triggered or just have both hands in your pants?
> 
> Speaking of... where are my names of 3 innocent black people killed by cops?  Still waiting...


...typing with one hand.
[/QUOTE]

Talk about lame.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> *Lol, im still in my mid 30's bro*.  i think im safe, im not the one scared of this virus that kills people in their 80s like espola or already sick.  You seem very unstable by the way.


A young buck with a voice is always good.  I learned this when I turned 50.  Life is like a Tricycle.  Up top is Experience.  The other two wheels are tradition and belief systems.  If one is honest intellectually they will see that experience trumps tradition and belief unless one remains a zealot for their cause.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 22, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Lol, im still in my mid 30's bro and healthy.  i think im safe, im not the one scared of this virus that kills people in their 80s like espola or already sick.  You seem very unstable by the way.


Well these scaredy cat, overpaid, selfish teachers are giving you the big  F’U’.  I think they’re kicking your ass by the sound of your voice.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Well these scaredy cat, overpaid, selfish teachers are giving you the big  F’U’.  I think they’re kicking your ass by the sound of your voice.


I have many friends in teaching and many hate being stuck in the middle.  73% that I know want to teach and are super healthy.  I think it sucks that we can;t find common ground here in California.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 22, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Well these scaredy cat, overpaid, selfish teachers are giving you the big  F’U’.  I think they’re kicking your ass by the sound of your voice.


By the sound of my voice?  you're the one triggered.  I have no problem with teachers that want to teach.  its the unions that i have an issue with right now.  The demands that the unions made is  excessive and unnecessary for reopening schools.  Things like defunding the police and moratorium of charter schools, why?  why not keep the same funding for police?  Why take away charter options from parents in failing school districts? Why does the union make those demands to reopen schools?  the teacher union is political and its about money.  If you want to talk intelligently with informed discussion we can do that, but you seem like you just want to rant. lol.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 22, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> By the sound of my voice?  you're the one triggered.  I have no problem with teachers that want to teach.  its the unions that i have an issue with right now.  The demands that the unions made is  excessive and unnecessary for reopening schools.  Things like defunding the police and moratorium of charter schools, why?  why not keep the same funding for police?  Why take away charter options from parents in failing school districts? Why does the union make those demands to reopen schools?  the teacher union is political and its about money.  If you want to talk intelligently with informed discussion we can do that, but you seem like you just want to rant. lol.


Ok, so you know that the "defunding police" and "charter" school demands are fake news right?  That's a lame argument to use against teachers not wanting to return.  IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PROTECTIONS IN PLACE.  It's not about politics or money RIGHT NOW.  I've asked two teachers and two assistant superintendents in my very immediate circle.  Test kids and staff everyday, masks, maybe plexiglass, and plenty of sanitizing.  How hard is that?

Cost, 10-20 Billion.  Were about to spend another 2,000 Billion.  And we can't afford that?

I've been ranting since April about constant testing  when some of our top minds said this is our only way out.  https://www.vox.com/2020/4/13/21215133/coronavirus-testing-covid-19-tests-screening

How long have we known about F'n testing and even now you can only get a defensive test, i.e. you have to have a referral for the most part.  

So now that we know DT is not coming to the rescue, the Rockefeller Foundation will be implementing the testing plan I've cited above. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-the-u-s-still-doesnt-have-control-of-covid-19-6-months-after-pandemic-began

Brother, we should have started this back in March!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Show me three innocent White toddlers.   Tik Tok....Tik Tok....Tik Tok.....


Hey, Justapuss, where are my 3 names?  You still hiding like Dre and all the other Blacks Love Murder fanboys?


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> There's some evidence beginning to develop the southern outbreak is at or slightly past peak.  Data coming out of Mexico seems to indicate the same.  Recall I said a week ago Los Angeles was likely at it's peak +/- 2 weeks.  Or course now we can argue if relocks did it or if this is just a natural progression, but if it's relocks it wasn't very serious ones and school closures had 0 impact.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285979344179990528


Wasn't much a wave either.

Ok I take that back. If we are talking positive cases sure there was a wave.

If we are talking deaths associated with the positives then not much happened outside a lot of press stories, predictions of doom, and hand wringing.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Wasn't much a wave either.
> 
> Ok I take that back. If we are talking positive cases sure there was a wave.
> 
> If we are talking deaths associated with the positives then not much happened outside a lot of press stories, predictions of doom, and hand wringing.


Usually waves come in sets.  I bet another wave is likely.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 22, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Ok, so you know that the "defunding police" and "charter" school demands are fake news right?  That's a lame argument to use against teachers not wanting to return.  IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PROTECTIONS IN PLACE.  It's not about politics or money RIGHT NOW.  I've asked two teachers and two assistant superintendents in my very immediate circle.  Test kids and staff everyday, masks, maybe plexiglass, and plenty of sanitizing.  How hard is that?
> 
> Cost, 10-20 Billion.  Were about to spend another 2,000 Billion.  And we can't afford that?
> 
> ...


Fake news? You're about to look really dumb. Here's what the teachers union put out.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=[URL]https://www.utla.net/sites/default/files/samestormdiffboats_final.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiKxNqDxuHqAhX4JDQIHU1qBpsQFjAAegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw2uzGrh_cqz_7l-xqxeTSh-[/URL]


----------



## Grace T. (Jul 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> Usually waves come in sets.  I bet another wave is likely.


Depends why these waves are dying.  Are they dying (including Sweden which did nothing...not even masks and made the worst mistakes re nursing homes like NY) because we're hitting some sort of immunity black matter at 15-20% (e.g., t-cells or some other theories).  Or are they dying off because of seasonality (extremely warm and cold weather both cause it to accelerate, but nice weather with lots of sun causes it to recede).

All eyes need to be on Spain right now.  They've had a small bump in the Barcelona area.  Does that develop into a second wave given how hot it is in Spain right now or is the worst over.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 22, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Wasn't much a wave either.
> 
> Ok I take that back. If we are talking positive cases sure there was a wave.
> 
> If we are talking deaths associated with the positives then not much happened outside a lot of press stories, predictions of doom, and hand wringing.


3000 people died in AZ already, and deaths have barely peaked.  

How many have to die for it to count as a wave? 

If AZ had done it your way, with no lockdown, you would have had far more dead.  Your peak would have hit in April, before hospitals had good treatments.

Also remember that the current death rate is based on AZ being able to fly nurses in from out of state.  If the whole country followed your plan, who were you going to borrow medical staff from?  They would all be peaking at the same time as you.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)

dad4 said:


> 3000 people died in AZ already, and deaths have barely peaked.
> 
> How many have to die for it to count as a wave?
> 
> ...


Remember CAL who you said was doing it right? They also have the same wave of positives. And like AZ few deaths relative to the increases in positives.

How much do be a wave? I don't know. 3k dead in AZ over the past 5 months. So 600 people a month on average is what that is. Do we shut down a state of 7 million for that? In AZ they calculated around 45% of those deaths were in nursing homes (places where people go in and there is only one way out). So out of that 600...when you take out nursing home deaths...you are a bit over 300 per month...ie 10 people a day. You dont shut down a state based on that. 

Or how about GA that you have said was a disaster? 

And actually you don't know if a lockdown would have made a difference. NY locked down right? NJ locked down right? CT locked down right? 

They did far worse vs FL who didn't lock down and is a state that has a very similar demographic to NY. 

Sure deaths have risen in every state. But that large spike in positives has not had a correspondingly similar rise in deaths. No where even close. Same holds true in Cal, GA, TX and FL. And that quite frankly should be considered GOOD news. 

The amount of deaths the US is experiencing now is 75% off its peak in late March and April. Half of all deaths are 80+ individuals...

I still stand by the fact that it is time to get back to work, school, sports....LIFE.

To do as we have done in shutting down so much is madness.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 22, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Remember CAL who you said was doing it right? They also have the same wave of positives. And like AZ few deaths relative to the increases in positives.
> 
> How much do be a wave? I don't know. 3k dead in AZ over the past 5 months. So 600 people a month on average is what that is. Do we shut down a state of 7 million for that? In AZ they calculated around 45% of those deaths were in nursing homes (places where people go in and there is only one way out). So out of that 600...when you take out nursing home deaths...you are a bit over 300 per month...ie 10 people a day. You dont shut down a state based on that.
> 
> ...


I was way wrong about GA.  Their mask/tracing enthusiasm lasted about a week or two.  

Current death rates seem about 1/4 what they were in April.  It’s why AZ has 3000 dead instead of 12,000.  We can’t compare deaths between the March outbreaks and the July outbreaks.  So, compare AZ with NM, but not AZ with NJ.  

Probably can’t compare a desert state with a temperate one, either.   Oregon will look better just because they use less air conditioning

Where are you on mask mandates?  reasonable precaution, or big government intrusion?


----------



## MicPaPa (Jul 22, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Well these scaredy cat, overpaid, selfish teachers are giving you the big  F’U’.  I think they’re kicking your ass by the sound of your voice.


You think we should be paying *all* school employees during closures?


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 22, 2020)

MicPaPa said:


> You think we should be paying *all* school employees during closures?


Ignore him, i proved he doesnt know what he is talking about.  he said teacher unions demanding to defund the police and stop charter schools was fake news lol.


----------



## Copa9 (Jul 22, 2020)

justneededaname said:


> My son's high school (private) sent out an email to parents yesterday saying they intend to push back against the governor's order and do everything they can to be able to open on time. They have had students on-site safely since mid-June for summer school.
> 
> I wish them the best of luck. But not sure I want my son to play the role of Brian Moreland


Please be specific, what high school?  How many students in summer school?


----------



## Justafan (Jul 22, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> Fake news? You're about to look really dumb. Here's what the teachers union put out.
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=[URL]https://www.utla.net/sites/default/files/samestormdiffboats_final.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiKxNqDxuHqAhX4JDQIHU1qBpsQFjAAegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw2uzGrh_cqz_7l-xqxeTSh-[/URL]
> 
> View attachment 8234


Now how F’n dumb are you?  And you too Dawson?  You just proved my point.  Did you not read headline #1?  The California School and Local Communities Funding Act To go on the ballot November 2020!!!!!  

You know, like in the future, like after August, September, and October?

Did I not capitalize “RIGHT NOW” as in that is not the issue for teachers returning to school RIGHT NOW, as in 2 weeks from today!!

I win again!

And you should really learn something about negotiating ploys, like “high ball” “low ball” game.  Ask for the moon and settle for outer space.  You guys quoting these demands as serious are not being intellectually honest.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 22, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Remember CAL who you said was doing it right? They also have the same wave of positives. And like AZ few deaths relative to the increases in positives.
> 
> How much do be a wave? I don't know. 3k dead in AZ over the past 5 months. So 600 people a month on average is what that is. Do we shut down a state of 7 million for that? In AZ they calculated around 45% of those deaths were in nursing homes (places where people go in and there is only one way out). So out of that 600...when you take out nursing home deaths...you are a bit over 300 per month...ie 10 people a day. You dont shut down a state based on that.
> 
> ...


CA has had 200 deaths per million while AZ is more than twice that and increasing dramatically. This is despite the fact that CA has a number of regions that are far more densely populated.

AZ is also not averaging 600 deaths a month. It WAS averaging that rate because it took months for covid-19 to hit the state.  AZ IS averaging around 100 a day, or almost 3000 a month.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 22, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Now how F’n dumb are you?  And you too Dawson?  You just proved my point.  Did you not read headline #1?  The California School and Local Communities Funding Act To go on the ballot November 2020!!!!!
> 
> You know, like in the future, like after August, September, and October?
> 
> ...


I can't believe im giving you attention, did you read the PDF?

This is addressing the upcoming school year literally starting in August. Read the damn letter from the teachers union lol. Section 3 is where they demand some nonsense to safely reopen schools for 2020-2021. Idiot.



			https://www.utla.net/sites/default/files/samestormdiffboats_final.pdf


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Where are you on mask mandates? reasonable precaution, or big government intrusion?


It is mainly safety theater that make people feel better that they are "doing something". 

There has not been any large scale study on masks use related to the general public and if of how effective that usage may be. There have been mask studies related to medical professionals who know how to use them and are aware of sanitation, etc. And even those show mixed results. 

I wear them when I have to to go into places...such as the grocery store. Their rules, so I don't really have much choice.

I have discovered that the virus only hangs out by the door in restaurants/bars. While you may think AZ shut those down again...here is what they have been doing for some time. Wear a mask to go in the door. Walk 10 ft to the bar...take off mask. Everyone in the bar and at the tables don't wear masks.

This article from UM kind of sums up what they know regarding masks. They support usage...but note the following. 

"In summary, though we support mask wearing by the general public, *we continue to conclude that cloth masks and face coverings are likely to have limited impact on lowering COVID-19 transmission, because they have minimal ability to prevent the emission of small particles, offer limited personal protection with respect to small particle inhalation*, and should not be recommended as a replacement for physical distancing or reducing time in enclosed spaces with many potentially infectious people. We are very concerned about messaging that suggests cloth masks or face coverings can replace physical distancing. We also worry that the public doesn't understand the limitations of cloth masks and face coverings when we observe how many people wear their mask under their nose or even under their mouth, remove their masks when talking to someone nearby, or fail to practice physical distancing when wearing a mask."

The reality is that while people wear a mask in one place because you have to in order to enter, then they are hanging out with friends at home or going out for dinner, or hanging out at the river together with many others...who in turn have been hanging out with many others...and not wearing masks. 

That is why even if masks did have some affect in the spread...because people still constantly congregate in various private or outdoor settings without masks any benefit by wearing a mask in one place is negated by the fact we are hanging out together in another place without them. 

Now on to other face mask stuff that I find humorous. 

My bro in law is a paranoid person. I made a wager with my wife that when he and his wife came to our house from Cal they would be wearing a mask in their car the entire 5-6 hours. I won. I asked him if he wore a mask in his house. He said no. I said why did you wear one in your car? Didn't really get a good answer. I still chuckle about that one. 

At Safeway. There is a lady that works there. Since the beginning she has been wearing a mask. Then later I noticed she is wearing 2 masks. That went on for more than a month. Lately she is wearing 2 masks and now has a face shield on. I am trying to figure out how to get a photo on the sly.


----------



## watfly (Jul 22, 2020)

Death rates per 100K by state (through July 19):


NJ          176.8NY          165.5CT          123.3MA          122.3RI            93.5DC            82.0LA            73.8MI            63.7IL            57.6MD            56.9PA            54.8DE            53.7MS            45.6IN            39.1AZ            37.9CO            30.4GA            29.9NH            29.3MN            27.3NM            27.2OH            27.2AL            26.2IA            25.1VA            23.7FL            23.2SC            22.1NV            21.0CA            19.5WA            19.0MO            18.4NC            15.6NE            15.5KY            15.0WI            14.5TX            13.7SD            13.3TN            12.2ND            12.1AR            11.8OK            11.4KS            10.6VT              9.0ME              8.7UT              7.6ID              6.7OR              6.2WV              5.6WY              4.1MT              3.6AK              2.5HI              1.7

For Republican governed states the rate is 27.7, for Democrat governed states the rate is 54.9, so double the rate.  Not saying its causation, just passing the info along


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)

watfly said:


> Death rates per 100K by state (through July 19):
> 
> 
> NJ          176.8NY          165.5CT          123.3MA          122.3RI            93.5DC            82.0LA            73.8MI            63.7IL            57.6MD            56.9PA            54.8DE            53.7MS            45.6IN            39.1AZ            37.9CO            30.4GA            29.9NH            29.3MN            27.3NM            27.2OH            27.2AL            26.2IA            25.1VA            23.7FL            23.2SC            22.1NV            21.0CA            19.5WA            19.0MO            18.4NC            15.6NE            15.5KY            15.0WI            14.5TX            13.7SD            13.3TN            12.2ND            12.1AR            11.8OK            11.4KS            10.6VT              9.0ME              8.7UT              7.6ID              6.7OR              6.2WV              5.6WY              4.1MT              3.6AK              2.5HI              1.7
> ...


Note the press and their fixation on FL and TX. Look at their number and then look at CA.

Then note GA and AZ and look at all the states above them.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 22, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> It is mainly safety theater that make people feel better that they are "doing something".
> 
> There has not been any large scale study on masks use related to the general public and if of how effective that usage may be. There have been mask studies related to medical professionals who know how to use them and are aware of sanitation, etc. And even those show mixed results.
> 
> ...


If you’re one one the ones who skirts the mask rules, don’t complain too loudly about the business closures.

No sympathy here on that one.  

The UM study was essentially saying that wearing a mask does not excuse being stupid about distancing.  It’s not an argument in favor of mask-free reopening.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 22, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Now how F’n dumb are you?  And you too Dawson?  You just proved my point.  Did you not read headline #1?  The California School and Local Communities Funding Act To go on the ballot November 2020!!!!!
> 
> You know, like in the future, like after August, September, and October?
> 
> ...


And this is what happens when you forget to take your medication Just a Fan. Please take those meds or get laid so you can relax a bit.  TAKE THOSE MEDS!$*$****#@)%%Y%Y%Y@!!!!$%%!#@#QIHWHITWUPOI)E)UIOHKHCJKLHLDYIRERYWEYRIOWEYRIO"WE:


----------



## Justafan (Jul 22, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> I can't believe im giving you attention, did you read the PDF?
> 
> This is addressing the upcoming school year literally starting in August. Read the damn letter from the teachers union lol. Section 3 is where they demand some nonsense to safely reopen schools for 2020-2021. Idiot.
> 
> ...


Please read section “II” above, then look in the mirror and say, Hi, my name is MSK and I’m a moron.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 22, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Now how F’n dumb are you?  And you too Dawson?  You just proved my point.  Did you not read headline #1?  The California School and Local Communities Funding Act To go on the ballot November 2020!!!!!
> 
> You know, like in the future, like after August, September, and October?
> 
> ...


Is this 3 putt?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 22, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Note the press and their fixation on FL and TX. Look at their number and then look at CA.
> 
> Then note GA and AZ and look at all the states above them.


GA, CO, and AZ are the worst states for covid outside the northeast.   Was that your point?


----------



## Justafan (Jul 22, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> And this is what happens when you forget to take your medication Just a Fan. Please take those meds or get laid so you can relax a bit.  TAKE THOSE MEDS!$*$****#@)%%Y%Y%Y@!!!!$%%!#@#QIHWHITWUPOI)E)UIOHKHCJKLHLDYIRERYWEYRIOWEYRIO"WE:


Bro, I think YOU forgot to take your meds.  If you're looking for a beat down, you’ve come to the right place, but you just threw a jab at your cornerman, I’m across the ring.  When you want some, come and get some.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 22, 2020)

MSK357 said:


> I can't believe im giving you attention, did you read the PDF?
> 
> This is addressing the upcoming school year literally starting in August. Read the damn letter from the teachers union lol. Section 3 is where they demand some nonsense to safely reopen schools for 2020-2021. Idiot.
> 
> ...


I’m trying to figure out what type of people have such disrespect for teachers. MAGAt? White? “Christian”? Gun lover? Anti-vaxxer? Home schooler? What level of education and was it at a real school?


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)

dad4 said:


> If you’re one one the ones who skirts the mask rules, don’t complain too loudly about the business closures.
> 
> No sympathy here on that one.
> 
> The UM study was essentially saying that wearing a mask does not excuse being stupid about distancing.  It’s not an argument in favor of mask-free reopening.


What they are saying is cloth and paper masks probably do little with respect to virus sized particles.

I like #s.

So 5 states combined have about half the deaths. NY, NJ, PA, CT and MA.

Combined they have about 50 million people.

So the other 45 states with the other 280 million contribute to the other half.

Much of the thinking and press reporting has the outlook of the 5 states. The experience of the majority of the states does not mirror what happened in those states.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)

dad4 said:


> GA, CO, and AZ are the worst states for covid outside the northeast.   Was that your point?


The worst? Not even close. There are 14 or so states above AZ and GA and CO in terms of infection per million


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I’m trying to figure out what type of people have such disrespect for teachers. MAGAt? White? “Christian”? Gun lover? Anti-vaxxer? Home schooler? What level of education and was it at a real school?


I don't think you want to bring skin color into education now, do you?


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)

dad4 said:


> GA, CO, and AZ are the worst states for covid outside the northeast.   Was that your point?


And in terms of deaths...GA, AZ, CO have about 14 states worse (GA has 12)


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> was it at a real school?


For you I guess you only consider real schools to be public schools.


----------



## RiverRat (Jul 22, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Bro, I think YOU forgot to take your meds.  If you're looking for a beat down, you’ve come to the right place, but you just threw a jab at your cornerman, I’m across the ring.  When you want some, come and get some.





EOTL said:


> I’m trying to figure out what type of people have such disrespect for teachers. MAGAt? White? “Christian”? Gun lover? Anti-vaxxer? Home schooler? What level of education and was it at a real school?


----------



## EOTL (Jul 22, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> For you I guess you only consider real schools to be public schools.


I have no problem with private schools. I have a big problem with people who want a private school but aren’t willing to pay for it, so they create a charter school and mooch off the public.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 22, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> The worst? Not even close. There are 14 or so states above AZ and GA and CO in terms of infection per million


Sure.  Those 14 states are Chicago, Detroit, and New Orleans, plus the entire northeast.  (NY, NJ, CT, RI, DC, PA, DE, MD).  

 Almost every single state above you had their peak hit in March/April.  The only questionable one is Indiana, and they have a major population center that commutes to Chicago.  The other is MS, which was doing what GA did.

CO is the odd man out.   Most of their deaths were also in March/April.  It was a spike caused by NY bankers bringing disease with them when they fled to their vacation homes in Aspen and Arapahoe.  Since then they’ve been relatively clean.

Which puts AZ, GA, TX, MS, and FL with the absolutely worst July outbreaks.  And you keep asking us to copy them.  Why can’t we copy someone who actually has their act together, like Washington State?


----------



## EOTL (Jul 22, 2020)

RiverRat said:


>




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285618062545362950


----------



## mid10 (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Charter schools often increase segregation in primary education, even when their stated goal is to remove the geographical attendance restrictions that cause de facto segregation. This is obviously not always the case and in many instances they do help. But they are also often used to perpetuate segregation, especially in the south.
> 
> I’m not going to give you an exhaustive list, as you can easily find reasons online. You’ll need to do your own research. It also requires looking at them from the perspective of what is good for education in the U.S. instead of what is best for me, here, right now without regard for how they impact others. I know that is not possible for MAGAts.







__





						Choice Without Equity:  Charter School Segregation and the Need for Civil Rights Standards — The Civil Rights Project at UCLA
					

The charter school movement has been a major political success, but it has been a civil rights failure.  As the country continues moving steadily toward greater segregation and inequality of education for students of color in schools with lower achievement and graduation rates, the rapid growth...




					www.civilrightsproject.ucla.edu


----------



## dad4 (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285618062545362950


Great ad.  Don’t forget to give credit to the anti-Trump Republicans who made it.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)

By the way @dad4 you think AZ shut down again.

This is what the shutdown looks like. Took this photo right now from my table. And nobody is skirting the rules. These are the rules.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 22, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Great ad.  Don’t forget to give credit to the anti-Trump Republicans who made it.


I think that’s pretty obvious from the link. I have also specifically discussed them in prior posts. They have their flaws, sure, and bear some responsibility for helping create the orange diaper-wearing frankenstein monster that took over their party. But they can create anti-Trump attack ads that Dems cannot get away with, so good for them.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I have no problem with private schools. I have a big problem with people who want a private school but aren’t willing to pay for it, so they create a charter school and mooch off the public.


Mooch off the public? Charter schools receive less money per student and have better outcomes. They are a more efficient use of tax dollars vs public schools.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 22, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Mooch off the public? Charter schools receive less money per student and have better outcomes. They are a more efficient use of tax dollars vs public schools.


Nope. Already been through this.


----------



## Soccer4evr (Jul 22, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Our local paper is confirming.  Las Virginese was set to reopen, rising cases be damned.  State health department won't allow them to reopen.  Paper says the superintendent "sounded pained" on the phone.  This is all the governor which means private schools won't escape either and he's about to crack down on new home schooling for those trying to flee the public schools.


Sounds like tyranny.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)

Soccer4evr said:


> Sounds like tyranny.


Tyranny disguised as compassion.


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I have no problem with private schools. I have a big problem with people who want a private school but aren’t willing to pay for it, so they create a charter school and mooch off the public.


So I guess my family got the free soccer handout and mooched off the public.  Thank you 503 club for free soccer for 6 months and thank you Temecula for allowing my son ((Native American)) a choice for charter or regular public.  Not all kids fit in public schools and my son was one of them.


----------



## whatithink (Jul 22, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Remember CAL who you said was doing it right? They also have the same wave of positives. And like AZ few deaths relative to the increases in positives.
> 
> How much do be a wave? I don't know. 3k dead in AZ over the past 5 months. So 600 people a month on average is what that is. Do we shut down a state of 7 million for that? In AZ they calculated around 45% of those deaths were in nursing homes (places where people go in and there is only one way out). So out of that 600...when you take out nursing home deaths...you are a bit over 300 per month...ie 10 people a day. You don't shut down a state based on that.


Its not about averages though. You say you are into numbers, so I'll take you at your word. Mis-representing statistics to suit a narrative is never a good argument IMO.

The majority of the AZ deaths have been in the last 30 days. The peak was 74 on July 7th. There were 56 deaths reported *today*. There would appear to be a correlation between opening the state back up in May and the second "wave" in June & July which were far worse than the initial one. Maybe AZ shut down too early, or may be not - idk. Fortunately it is trending down.

I don't want the state shut down, schools closed and so on. I want businesses open, people employed; some semblance of normality. I don't want that at any cost.

Q: How many people a day have to die before you support shutting down the state?









						AZDHS | Epidemiology & Disease Control - Mosquito Borne
					

Working to monitor, prevent and control diseases in Arizona through education, immunization and research.




					azdhs.gov


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Which puts AZ, GA, TX, MS, and FL with the absolutely worst July outbreaks. And you keep asking us to copy them. Why can’t we copy someone who actually has their act together, like Washington State?


I am confused. Just a few posts ago you said you were wrong about GA.

Now they are bad again?

You have been predicting that AZ is going off the rails since we reopened in May. And yet today death wise AZ is fine. As a matter of fact based on deaths, infection per million, death per million AZ is close to GA whom you just admitted you were wrong about.

AZ has not seen the type of numbers you have been predicting for months.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2020)

whatithink said:


> There were 56 deaths reported *today*. There would appear to be a correlation between opening the state back up in May and the second "wave" in June & July which were far worse than the initial one


So pre opening we were around 28 per day. Going up to 56 in a day in a population of 7 million is an insignificant difference.

To be honest the rise in cases seem more tied to the blm protests in late may/early June. Positives starting really rising a few weeks later.

But in any case AZ went from 200-500 cases per day to 5k cases per day.

We didn't see deaths going up 10x or more. We went from high 20s into high 50s with some days more.

The hype in the press didn't translate into a correspondending amount of deaths.

Had it.. instead of talking cases in AZ, TX, etc they would talk deaths.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 22, 2020)

Ellejustus said:


> So I guess my family got the free soccer handout and mooched off the public.  Thank you 503 club for free soccer for 6 months and thank you Temecula for allowing my son ((Native American)) a choice for charter or regular public.  Not all kids fit in public schools and my son was one of them.


We know all about you and mooching, no need to remind us.  I’m fine if a soccer club throws its money away since they are a private business and it is theirs. Not ok with charter schools, and I’m glad CA is clamping down on them.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 22, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I am confused. Just a few posts ago you said you were wrong about GA.
> 
> Now they are bad again?
> 
> ...


AZ is definitely not doing fine IMO. I guess my question for you is how many people must die in your state before you will agree that AZ is not doing fine?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

RiverRat said:


>


They're "going to REBUILD the democratic party...." and give us Dementia Joe!


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> We know all about you and mooching, no need to remind us.  I’m fine if a soccer club throws its money away since they are a private business and it is theirs. Not ok with charter schools, and I’m glad CA is clamping down on them.


Since you're all powerful and pretty much right on many topics ((I think know many of your predictions have been spot on btw.  I dont get all the rants on my native American dd dd but whatever, that's in the past and i fogive you.  You cant be right all the time)).  Questions for you.  What % do you give Joe to win?  Did you predict Hillary or a t upset in 2016?


----------



## whatithink (Jul 22, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> So pre opening we were around 28 per day. Going up to 56 in a day in a population of 7 million is an insignificant difference.
> 
> To be honest the rise in cases seem more tied to the blm protests in late may/early June. Positives starting really rising a few weeks later.
> 
> ...


I've noticed the change in narrative from deaths to cases in the media and I think that's intellectually dishonest and definitely agenda driven.

The protests in AZ were small, relative to a population size of 7M. They contributed I expect, but who knows how much. There were bars in Scottsdale cited due to the crowding and ignoring of common sense. They also contributed, but who knows how much.

I misspoke above on the majority in the last 30 days, its about 45% in the last 30 days, so a running 30-day total of about 1400 deaths. 

Some AZ stats


AgeCases% CasesDeaths% DeathsMortalityless than 20          17,19311%​             100.3%​0.06%​20-44          74,67650%​           1735.8%​0.23%​45-54          23,34616%​           2006.7%​0.86%​55-64          17,79312%​           43014.5%​2.42%​65+          17,39612%​       2,16172.7%​12.42%​Unknown               205       150,609       2,9741.97%​


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285618062545362950


Still dry humping those polls... literally.


----------



## messy (Jul 22, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Our governor sends his kids to a $25k per year private school... so, like everything else, he's not affected.


Who can do a private school for only $25K per year? Ima move there.


----------



## messy (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I’m trying to figure out what type of people have such disrespect for teachers. MAGAt? White? “Christian”? Gun lover? Anti-vaxxer? Home schooler? What level of education and was it at a real school?


They don’t like education, remember? It’s “indoctrination.”


----------



## messy (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1285618062545362950


Priceless. What a buffoon. Gotta go, here comes Joe!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

messy said:


> Who can do a private school for only $25K per year? Ima move there.


Don't forget... he inherited more kids from fucking his best friend's wife.  So now Gavin pays for all of them.  Such a hero in the libtard community.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 22, 2020)

RiverRat said:


>


I sense a little nervousness in your voice.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

messy said:


> Priceless. What a buffoon. Gotta go, here comes Joe!


Is Joe still running for the senate or did his sister/wife get that straightened out?


----------



## messy (Jul 22, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Don't forget... he inherited more kids from fucking his best friend's wife.  So now Gavin pays for all of them.  Such a hero in the libtard community.


You never fucked your best friend’s wife? 
I mean before they were married?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 22, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> By the way @dad4 you think AZ shut down again.
> 
> This is what the shutdown looks like. Took this photo right now from my table. And nobody is skirting the rules. These are the rules.View attachment 8237


No wonder you guys had 3000 dead in such a small state.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 22, 2020)

messy said:


> You never fucked your best friend’s wife?
> I mean before they were married?


Always the deflection.  Nevermind... they asked God for forgiveness and went to rehab together.  Gavin is a real winner!


----------



## Ricky Fandango (Jul 22, 2020)

messy said:


> You never fucked your best friend’s wife?
> I mean before they were married?


Douchebag.


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 22, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Please read section “II” above, then look in the mirror and say, Hi, my name is MSK and I’m a moron.


Typical, you stop reading half way through and call other people moron. Lol.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 22, 2020)

Justafan said:


> Bro, I think YOU forgot to take your meds.  If you're looking for a beat down, you’ve come to the right place, but you just threw a jab at your cornerman, I’m across the ring.  When you want some, come and get some.


What are you like 17!?  what’s up Brah! You got hit in the head a little too much brah!  Either that or too many steroids and watching MMA all day brah!   Stfu and get out of here bro!


----------



## MSK357 (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> I’m trying to figure out what type of people have such disrespect for teachers. MAGAt? White? “Christian”? Gun lover? Anti-vaxxer? Home schooler? What level of education and was it at a real school?


I'm talking about UTLA....are you confused again?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 22, 2020)

And this just in. Apparently middle age men in OC didn’t get the memo that we cannot play soccer.  The same thing happened yesterday with a boys u9 rec team having a full 6v6 scrimmage.   LOL.


----------



## watfly (Jul 22, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Not ok with charter schools, and I’m glad CA is clamping down on them.


If you can't compete then shut them down.  Great policy.


----------



## Nonononono (Jul 22, 2020)

Ricky Fandango said:


> Douchebag.


It’s bad enough you ruin threads in the off topic section, Dick.  Now I see you ruin them in the soccer threads as well.  Shameless.


----------



## messy (Jul 22, 2020)

Nonononono said:


> It’s bad enough you ruin threads in the off topic section, Dick.  Now I see you ruin them in the soccer threads as well.  Shameless.


He really is.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jul 22, 2020)

Nonononono said:


> It’s bad enough you ruin threads in the off topic section, Dick.  Now I see you ruin them in the soccer threads as well.  Shameless.


Get over yourself.


----------



## Justafan (Jul 22, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> What are you like 17!?  what’s up Brah! You got hit in the head a little too much brah!  Either that or too many steroids and watching MMA all day brah!   Stfu and get out of here bro!


Shit talking 101, you can’t start off with “brah“ and end with “bro.”


----------



## Ricky Fandango (Jul 23, 2020)

Nonononono said:


> It’s bad enough you ruin threads in the off topic section, Dick.  Now I see you ruin them in the soccer threads as well.  Shameless.


This is the "Off Topic" section, sherlock.
You're welcome.


----------



## Hüsker Dü (Jul 23, 2020)

Nonononono said:


> It’s bad enough you ruin threads in the off topic section, Dick.  Now I see you ruin them in the soccer threads as well.  Shameless.


Dominic apparently moved this thread to off topic when the boogaloo bois came in.


----------



## Hüsker Dü (Jul 23, 2020)

messy said:


> He really is.


He use to have a modicum of presence in these forums, he's turned pure troll. The pressure must have got to him.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 23, 2020)

dad4 said:


> No wonder you guys had 3000 dead in such a small state.


Eh...14th biggest in the US. Certainly smaller than CA...but bigger than most of the other states in the US. 

Your predictions of our doom are consistently off. 

Your predictions of GA as you admitted finally were wrong. 

The same holds true for your predications of FL and TX. 

None of those states (including your CA) are getting anywhere close to the deaths the NE saw early on. 

You and many other people (the press especially )still look at the covid virus through the lense of what you saw happen in the NE region early on. Since then, things have changed dramatically.


----------



## TOSDCI (Jul 23, 2020)

messy said:


> Who can do a private school for only $25K per year? Ima move there.


Catholic high school tuition is less than $25K per year.


----------



## Hüsker Dü (Jul 23, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Eh...14th biggest in the US. Certainly smaller than CA...but bigger than most of the other states in the US.
> 
> Your predictions of our doom are consistently off.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't be counting no chickens.


----------



## Hüsker Dü (Jul 23, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> Catholic high school tuition is less than $25K per year.


Lol!


----------



## messy (Jul 23, 2020)

Hüsker Dü said:


> He use to have a modicum of presence in these forums, he's turned pure troll. The pressure must have got to him.


Poor guy is so insecure he thinks wearing a mask robs him of his manhood...


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 23, 2020)

messy said:


> Poor guy is so insecure he thinks wearing a mask robs him of his manhood...


Maybe he could put on a skirt and eyeliner to REALLY feel like a man?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 23, 2020)

Hüsker Dü said:


> Lol!


You're so fucking stupid.  There are private schools all over California that are less than $25k per year.


----------



## messy (Jul 23, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Maybe he could put on a skirt and eyeliner to REALLY feel like a man?


Shhh.


----------



## dad4 (Jul 23, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Eh...14th biggest in the US. Certainly smaller than CA...but bigger than most of the other states in the US.
> 
> Your predictions of our doom are consistently off.
> 
> ...


13 of those 14 states are the ones with March/April outbreaks, before we had decent treatments.

The other one is MS, which is doing the same stupid shit you are.

So, of the 35 or so states without a major April outbreak, AZ ranks second to last.

I didn’t say GA was screwing up.  My wrong prediction for GA when I said they weren’t totally screwing up.  I thought they were actually serious about masks and other non-closure interventions.  I was wrong.

How many deaths would it take to convince you that opening a bar in the middle of a respiratory pandemic is stupid?  Apparently 3000 isn’t enough.  

Maybe 3500?  One person dead for every 2000 residents of the great state of AZ?  Or does it have to rise to one dead for every 1000 residents for you to take notice?


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 23, 2020)

dad4 said:


> 13 of those 14 states are the ones with March/April outbreaks, before we had decent treatments.
> 
> The other one is MS, which is doing the same stupid shit you are.
> 
> So, of the 35 or so states without a major April outbreak, AZ ranks second to last.


I didn't realize this was how the goal posts get moved.

Up until yesterday when the facts didn't go your way you never have said we should rank states now vs back in March & April.

Is it just treatments that are making the difference?

Is it that smart states realized early on that you don't put infected people back into locations (nursing homes) with lots of already sick people? And yet Cuomo is still lauded by many as being on top of the outbreak.

Why is it that despite an abundance of new cases throughout the US, the number of deaths haven't come anywhere close to what we first saw? A time when the virus was just introduced to the US. A time when relatively few people had it apparently but caused a lot of deaths.

You have been saying for months now (late April for GA and FL) and early May for TX and AZ that things were going sideways for those states. They haven't. And yet you still continue.

CA who you don't complain about also has seen a spike in CASES but not a corresponding rise in deaths. Why no complaints about CA? CA has more cases per million vs TX and slightly less vs FL. 

Overall it stands to reason that as people go out and about more that cases will rise right? Early on it was about FLATTENING the curve to allow supplies to catch up. At the time they (the gov/press/experts) were honest. They just needed some time. The virus wasn't magically going away. But then the Karen's became worried and a brief period of closure to allow the hospitals catch up became...do very little until we have a vaccine. 

The reality is that 45 states have seen nothing like the NE experienced early on. And yet our policies and fears seem to be largely predicated on what happened early on. 

5 states have contributed to a bit less than 50% off all deaths. States with a population of 50 million.

The rest of the states with about 280 million have experience roughly 72k deaths. Of those,  using the stats put out by a variety of orgs..and reported on by the NY Times for instance...43% of all deaths are in nursing homes/assisted living facilities. Places were when you are placed you are never getting out alive by the way. 

So taking out the 43% in nursing homes...you have about 30K individuals who have died in a population of 280 million people. 30k. That is not a large # considering the size of the population. 

Yet you and others want to shut it all down based on that. And keep it shut down. Restaurants who employ a huge percentage of the workforce? Sorry owners and employees. Suck it up. Suppliers reliant in supplying them? Suck it up boys. Their employees? Suck it up boys. The families that rely on their parents making money working? Sorry...take your unemployment check and suck it up. By the way...no school for your kids either. Gym owners? Yeah no you can't support yourself. And the list goes on. 

All for something right now that is about 2.5x worse than the flu. 

You basically advocate putting life on hold...biz, school, etc until some vaccine comes around. We don't know when that will happen, if it will happen, how effective it will be, etc.

State finances have had a hole blown through them. Same with municipalities. This will force reductions in services for people that need them. They will also try to raise taxes to fill their needs. Tax people and biz already making less? States like CA are basically screwing kids with no in class for AT least through fall. Screw them right? They will get substandard educations in fall at a min. The rich and the better off middle class will find something that isnt totally substandard, but their kids education will suffer. The lower middle class and poor? They are out of luck. 

Fed finances? How many trillions have we spent? How many trillions in lost economic activity have we lost? 

All this for something that isn't a risk to the VAST VAST majority of our population. For something that overall is 2.5x worse than a bad flu season. 

Madness.


----------



## nononono (Jul 23, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Eh...14th biggest in the US. Certainly smaller than CA...but bigger than most of the other states in the US.
> 
> Your predictions of our doom are consistently off.
> 
> ...



*Remember what I posted about New York and the " Trial " run of a Pandemic last fall....*
*They knew about the pending release in China and the deliberate flights out of Wuhan 
to all points west and east.....










						About Event 201, a high-level pandemic exercise on October 18, 2019
					

Event 201 was a pandemic tabletop exercise that simulated a series of dramatic, scenario-based facilitated discussions, confronting difficult dilemmas associated with response to a hypothetical pandemic.




					www.centerforhealthsecurity.org
				




This was ALL done by design, as is the piggy backing of elderly patients from Imperial County to
Counties North by Mercy Air and other Medical Helicopter agencies....
They ( Democrats ) are seeding low number counties in southern California with a virulent strain of
COVID-19 from Mexico.....the problem with their plan is the virus degrades with each jump.
Look up the deceptive way they are seeding patients into regular hospitals and then into 
retirement homes/Senior Centers.....Gov Gavin Gruesome is taking a page straight out of*
*Gov Andrew Cuomo's playbook he used in New York State/City....


DEMOCRATS = CRIMINALS*


----------



## dad4 (Jul 23, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I didn't realize this was how the goal posts get moved.
> 
> Up until yesterday when the facts didn't go your way you never have said we should rank states now vs back in March & April.
> 
> ...


Yes, the treatments today are much better than treatments on March.  The average age of infected people is also lower, which results in a fewer deaths per infection.

Therefore, you should only compare March deaths to March deaths and July deaths to July deaths.  

And, when you compare July deaths, AZ is one of the main drivers of the pandemic.   You’re creating a huge pool of infected people so you all can have beer and pizza at the local sports bar.

Enjoy your Hefeweisen.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 23, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I didn't realize this was how the goal posts get moved.
> 
> Up until yesterday when the facts didn't go your way you never have said we should rank states now vs back in March & April.
> 
> ...


How many people need to die in AZ before you agree that AZ has f**ked up? I want to make sure the goalposts don’t get moved or, in your case, never even placed on the field.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 23, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Yes, the treatments today are much better than treatments on March.  The average age of infected people is also lower, which results in a fewer deaths per infection.
> 
> Therefore, you should only compare March deaths to March deaths and July deaths to July deaths.
> 
> ...


I actually prefer IPA's nowadays.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 23, 2020)

EOTL said:


> How many people need to die in AZ before you agree that AZ has f**ked up? I want to make sure the goalposts don’t get moved or, in your case, never even placed on the field.


What would be the cause of the spike in CA positives? I assume you think CA is doing it right since I don't hear you sniveling about it.


----------



## Desert Hound (Jul 23, 2020)

dad4 said:


> AZ is one of the main drivers of the pandemic.


I guess CA isn't then? They don't drive anything?

You seem to have zero to few complaints about CA and yet despite them doing what you want, they too have seen a large spike as well.

Fortunately like the rest of the West and South they have not seen corresponding increases in deaths.

By the way AZ cases are dropping again and CA is still going up. This despite us hanging out having IPA's


----------



## EOTL (Jul 23, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I didn't realize this was how the goal posts get moved.
> 
> Up until yesterday when the facts didn't go your way you never have said we should rank states now vs back in March & April.
> 
> ...


Roughly 43,000 people died from the flu in 12 months in 2019-20. Roughly 145,000 have died from COVID-19 in a little over 4 months, and we’re looking at 1000 a day and growing right now. That tracks at almost 400,000 over a 12 month period. That’s about 9x worse.

How many people need to die in AZ before you change your mind? 6,000? 10,000? 100,000? All of you?


----------



## dad4 (Jul 23, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I guess CA isn't then? They don't drive anything?
> 
> You seem to have zero to few complaints about CA and yet despite them doing what you want, they too have seen a large spike as well.
> 
> ...


California, especially socal, is helping drive the pandemic, too.  Just not as severely as AZ.

They chose protests and BBQ over schools and sports.

Agree that IPA is the way to go.  I just have mine at home.


----------



## watfly (Jul 23, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Is it that smart states realized early on that you don't put infected people back into locations (nursing homes) with lots of already sick people? And yet Cuomo is still lauded by many as being on top of the outbreak.


In hindsight Coumo is a genius.  Kill massive amounts of citizens up front and blow through Covid quickly.  Then claim you've won the battle because your cases have plummeted, and ban travelers from other states that have death rates that are a fraction of yours.  Even travel to other states with very low death rates and give advice on how to fight Covid.  Then let the media tell every sheeple how well NY is doing while completely ignoring the needless number of deaths that were caused directly by the policies of the governor.  Pure genius.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 23, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I guess CA isn't then? They don't drive anything?
> 
> You seem to have zero to few complaints about CA and yet despite them doing what you want, they too have seen a large spike as well.
> 
> ...


CA has about half the death rate as AZ despite having far more densely populated areas. Within a month, CA’s death rate is likely to be about 1/4 that of AZ.  You and your buddies can’t even blame BLM for the AZ death rates since you haven’t had anywhere near the protests.  Pointing to a state that  is still doing far better than yours (2x and soon to be 4x) is just a deflection from your state’s abysmal handling of the pandemic.

Reported cases means nothing in states that have heeded the bloated tangerine man-baby’s dictate to test less. Deaths matter, however. ICU beds taken matter. Numbers of people with permanent heart and lung disease matter.

How many gotta die before you change your mind? How many more need to have permanent health conditions as a result?


----------



## nononono (Jul 23, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Roughly 43,000 people died from the flu in 12 months in 2019-20. Roughly 145,000 have died from COVID-19 in a little over 4 months, and we’re looking at 1000 a day and growing right now. That tracks at almost 400,000 over a 12 month period. That’s about 9x worse.
> 
> How many people need to die in AZ before you change your mind? 6,000? 10,000? 100,000? All of you?


*Since the CDC just revised numbers in Florida from 90,000 to 11,000 ....*
*( Because they got BUSTED ! )

Maybe....just maybe the numbers you are wetting yourself over are 
GROSSLY fudged also....!

How many of those " Deaths " have been FALSELY inserted into the 
COVID-19 file.....Hmmmmm.....?
*
*11,000 is what % of 90,000 = 12.22 %

12.22 % of 145,000 = 17719*
*
17719 is the REAL number of TRUE COVID-19 Deaths if we use the 
manufactured data from just Florida.....

I think the TRUE number is much much less than that.....

And CHINA/DEMOCRATS are 100 % responsible for this manufactured crisis....!!!

*
*DEMOCRATS = CRIMINALS*


----------



## TOSDCI (Jul 23, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> You're so fucking stupid.  There are private schools all over California that are less than $25k per year.





Hüsker Dü said:


> Lol!


It is completely true.  Catholic high school tuition in San Diego is about $20K.  This information in readily available on their websites.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 23, 2020)

nononono said:


> *Since the CDC just revised numbers in Florida from 90,000 to 11,000 ....*
> *( Because they got BUSTED ! )
> 
> Maybe....just maybe the numbers you are wetting yourself over are
> ...


Thx. Your post helps show to others why MAGATs are mentally ill.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 23, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Thx. Your post helps show to others why MAGATs are mentally ill.


You want a rainbow parade?


----------



## EOTL (Jul 23, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> You want a rainbow parade?


Bigot.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 23, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> You want a rainbow parade?


“The Washington Football Team”.  Ha ha. I suppose that’s enough for one day.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 23, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Bigot.


I'd hate to prevent you from the empowering nudity.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 23, 2020)

EOTL said:


> “The Washington Football Team”.  Ha ha. I suppose that’s enough for one day.


Snyder already said he's not changing it.  It'll go back to Redskins once you babies stop crying.


----------



## EOTL (Jul 23, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> I'd hate to prevent you from the empowering nudity.
> 
> View attachment 8251


Bigot.


----------



## Hüsker Dü (Jul 23, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> It is completely true.  Catholic high school tuition in San Diego is about $20K.  This information in readily available on their websites.


That's not what I was laughing at.


----------



## Hüsker Dü (Jul 23, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Thx. Your post helps show to others why MAGATs are mentally ill.


There is a whole litany of complex's they openly display.


----------



## Hüsker Dü (Jul 23, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> I'd hate to prevent you from the empowering nudity.
> 
> View attachment 8251


They look like they are having fun! Don't be sore/jealous cuz you are a boring old, sexually repressed, emotionally stunted bigot.


----------



## nononono (Jul 23, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Thx. Your post helps show to others why MAGATs are mentally ill.


*What I did was post a hypothesis on deaths based on facts.....*
*
With a closing statement that is the TRUTH.
*
*DEMOCRATS = CRIMINALS**

Your limited synaptic development cannot grasp much more than 
the daily DNC regurgitation you're fed it seems...*


----------



## nononono (Jul 23, 2020)

Hüsker Dü said:


> There is a whole litany of complex's they openly display.


*Nothing " Complex " about your mental disability....*
*
*
*DEMOCRATS = CRIMINALS*


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 23, 2020)

Hüsker Dü said:


> That's not what I was laughing at.


The little voices in your empty head?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 23, 2020)

Hüsker Dü said:


> They look like they are having fun! Don't be sore/jealous cuz you are a boring old, sexually repressed, emotionally stunted bigot.


Sure they are!  They're pretty little princesses that can show their boobies off in public.  It's so empowering, don't you think?


----------



## nononono (Jul 23, 2020)

*DEMOCRATS = CRIMINALS*


----------



## EOTL (Jul 23, 2020)

nononono said:


> *Since the CDC just revised numbers in Florida from 90,000 to 11,000 ....*
> *( Because they got BUSTED ! )
> 
> Maybe....just maybe the numbers you are wetting yourself over are
> ...


Incoherent social media posts that contain multiple fonts, colors and bizarre “all caps” decisions are often compelling evidence of a serious psychosis. You might want to get that checked out.


----------



## Lion Eyes (Jul 23, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Incoherent social media posts that contain multiple fonts, colors and bizarre “all caps” decisions are often compelling evidence of a serious psychosis. You might want to get that checked out.


Apparently this causes some to suffer epileptic fits....


----------



## nononono (Jul 23, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Incoherent social media posts that contain multiple fonts, colors and bizarre “all caps” decisions are often compelling evidence of a serious psychosis. You might want to get that checked out.



*Nothing incoherent in getting you to " Bite "....*
*
So...." Check it Out "....

Would you prefer " Crab " over " Shrimp " or just just the " Colorful " lures you're *
*responding to at present.....*


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 23, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Incoherent social media posts that contain multiple fonts, colors and bizarre “all caps” decisions are often compelling evidence of a serious psychosis. You might want to get that checked out.


Do you think Dr. Biden does that sort of thing or just pap smears in the office?


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 23, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> It is completely true.  Catholic high school tuition in San Diego is about $20K.  This information in readily available on their websites.





nononono said:


> *Since the CDC just revised numbers in Florida from 90,000 to 11,000 ....*
> *( Because they got BUSTED ! )
> 
> Maybe....just maybe the numbers you are wetting yourself over are
> ...


Where’s your source.  I saw this in a Facebook post and  nobody on that post could find a reliable source. This came from some random tweet but no valid source.


----------



## Hüsker Dü (Jul 23, 2020)

The Outlaw said:


> Sure they are!  They're pretty little princesses that can show their boobies off in public.  It's so empowering, don't you think?


You ooze jealousy.


----------



## nononono (Jul 23, 2020)

QUOTE="SoccerFan4Life, post: 346308, member: 1544"

Where’s your source.
I saw this in a Facebook post and  nobody on that post
could find a reliable source.
This came from some random tweet but no valid source.

/QUOTE


*No loser....it's right there in the CDC site below....*
*The number was revised to 10,917....Round up you get 11,000. 
( The category is pneumonia/COVID-19 )
And that is still a mix...
The TRUE number is 4,376 deaths from COVID-19 ( Which is STILL suspect )*

*They were adding everything together, now the combined is over 107,071....

Not to mention my post was a " Hypothesis " based on these suspect numbers....
Read a little more before smearing feces on your own face....











						Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
					

National Center for Health Statistics




					www.cdc.gov
				



*


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 23, 2020)

Hüsker Dü said:


> You ooze jealousy.


Like the bursting hemorrhoid of a pillow biter!


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 24, 2020)

nononono said:


> QUOTE="SoccerFan4Life, post: 346308, member: 1544"
> 
> Where’s your source.
> I saw this in a Facebook post and  nobody on that post
> ...


I wasn’t insulting you.  Now I am, you ignorant bastard.  I am asking about the statement that you made that Florida revised numbers from 90,000 to 11,000.   Where is that coming from.  The link that you sent me was around provisional deaths and yes that’s great that we now have closer to 130k deaths rather than 140k deaths.  
Finally, this is not a political disease you stupid f. It’s a global disease. Stop screwing your sister and wake up and read any news source in the world.  We all want the economy to open up.  This is going to be here for the next 3 years.  It has nothing to do with politics.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 24, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I wasn’t insulting you.  Now I am, you ignorant bastard.  I am asking about the statement that you made that Florida revised numbers from 90,000 to 11,000.   Where is that coming from.  The link that you sent me was around provisional deaths and yes that’s great that we now have closer to 130k deaths rather than 140k deaths.
> Finally, this is not a political disease you stupid f. It’s a global disease. Stop screwing your sister and wake up and read any news source in the world.  We all want the economy to open up.  This is going to be here for the next 3 years.  It has nothing to do with politics.


No, not everyone does... and I doubt he's the only one.









						Bill Maher Doubles Down On Anti-Trump Recession Wish
					

Update, with video Bill Maher doubled down tonight on his hope that an economic recession might turn the country against President Donald Trump. During the New Rules segment of HBO’s Real Tim…




					deadline.com


----------



## nononono (Jul 24, 2020)

QUOTE="SoccerFan4Life, post: 346368, member: 1544"

I wasn’t insulting you. 
*Yes YOU were.....and you know it. *

Now I am, you ignorant bastard.  
*The " Liberal " emerges.... Full AOC .....!*

I am asking about the statement that you made that Florida revised numbers from 90,000 to 11,000.  
*The " Link " and the info previous explains why I " Hypothesized " a scenario...*

 Where is that coming from.  
*I posted the CDC site ....you can derive the data if you read and cross reference....*

The link that you sent me was around provisional deaths and yes that’s 
great that we now have closer to 130k deaths rather than 140k deaths. 
*Your fellow Liberal poster EOTL posted the 140,000 +.....*

Finally, this is not a political disease you stupid f.
*It's not ?*
*My My ....Best Economy ever, Tariffs on CHINA, Democrats state Economy is Target, and BINGO ...
COVID-19 emerges from CHINA " BIO WEAPONS LAB "....Economy crashes, hundreds of thousand 
businesses lost, DEMOCRATS unleash their " NEW " TERRORIST group ANTIFA to destroy
major economic centers and smash the re-emergence of AMERICA'S ROBUST Economy...!
Nah ...It's not a Political " Disease "....Nah....
Who's the " Stupid " F@#K ".....?*
*Individuals who support a CRIMINAL EMPIRE....THAT'S WHO ! *

 It’s a global disease. 
*YES " COMMUNISM " IS A GLOBAL DISEASE THAT NEEDS TO BE ERADICATED !*

Stop screwing your sister and wake up and read any news source in the world.  
*Taunts like the one above are directly sourced from the DEMOCRATIC PLAYBOOK....!

A*. We all want the economy to open up.  
*Nice try....coupled with statement B.
Your income WILL dry up within 3 - 6 Months MAX if you do not FACE Reality...!

B*.This is going to be here for the next 3 years. 
*Really......WE WON'T HAVE A COUNTRY IN 3 YEARS....!
Please...provide the " Source " that definitively supports your assertion...You have access to 
CCP intel that others don't....NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THIS BIO-WEAPON IS CAPABLE OF...!
KILL IT AND THE CCP/DNC NOW !!!!*

 It has nothing to do with politics.
*It has EVERYTHING to do with Politics...EVERYTHING !!!*

/QUOTE


*Your move.......





*


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## Hüsker Dü (Jul 24, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I wasn’t insulting you.  Now I am, you ignorant bastard.  I am asking about the statement that you made that Florida revised numbers from 90,000 to 11,000.   Where is that coming from.  The link that you sent me was around provisional deaths and yes that’s great that we now have closer to 130k deaths rather than 140k deaths.
> Finally, this is not a political disease you stupid f. It’s a global disease. Stop screwing your sister and wake up and read any news source in the world.  We all want the economy to open up.  This is going to be here for the next 3 years.  It has nothing to do with politics.


Well put.


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## nononono (Jul 24, 2020)

Hüsker Dü said:


> Well put.


*You're complimenting garbage......tenth grade English is above that mess.
Cognitive ability.........F@#K Me are you a joke...! *


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 24, 2020)

Too many crazies in this site.  Time to take a break. So much for this being a soccer site.


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## notintheface (Jul 24, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Too many crazies in this site.  Time to take a break. So much for this being a soccer site.


Dude probably believes in that Qanon crap. Unreal. What happened to this country, that people can go so off their rocker.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 24, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Too many crazies in this site.  Time to take a break. So much for this being a soccer site.


Uh, I read what you wrote.  You're as crazy as anybody else here.  Just own it... don't run and hide.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED* (Jul 24, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Dude probably believes in that Qanon crap. Unreal. What happened to this country, that people can go so off their rocker.


You don't believe on the 9 memes of liberal bullshit you posted tonight?


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## nononono (Jul 25, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Too many crazies in this site.  Time to take a break. So much for this being a soccer site.


*Adios..........!*


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## nononono (Jul 25, 2020)

notintheface said:


> Dude probably believes in that Qanon crap. Unreal. What happened to this country, that people can go so off their rocker.


*Door is still open......out you go Knotontheface.....!*


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## notintheface (Jul 25, 2020)

nononono said:


> *Door is still open......out you go Knotontheface.....!*



*You have no idea how crazy you are.......!   Please go get help......!*


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## nononono (Jul 25, 2020)

notintheface said:


> *You have no idea how crazy you are.......!   Please go get help......!*



*You are scared Knotontheface, now go hit the road toad........*


*DEMOCRATS = CRIMINALS*


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