# Surf Players Being Discouraged from playing HS?



## ecsoccermom

Was talking to a friend who has a DD on a Surf ECNL/RL team and she said that they are being discouraged from playing High School soccer.  Has anyone else heard this?  I thought that the big advantage of ECNL versus the old DA was playing HS with their school friends.  Hope it isn't true as it would be a shame to not give these girls this opportunity.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper

“The first rule about fight club is *you don't talk about fight club*.” “The second rule about fight club is you don't talk about fight club.”


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## lafalafa

ecsoccermom said:


> Was talking to a friend who has a DD on a Surf ECNL/RL team and she said that they are being discouraged from playing High School soccer.  Has anyone else heard this?  I thought that the big advantage of ECNL versus the old DA was playing HS with their school friends.  Hope it isn't true as it would be a shame to not give these girls this opportunity.


Some club coaches in general with discourage playing HS but doesn't Surf girls have a far number of HS players each year?  Boys always seem to outside of DA.


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## espola

lafalafa said:


> Some club coaches in general with discourage playing HS but doesn't Surf girls have a far number of HS players each year?  Boys always seem to outside of DA.


In the boys DA years, some players would play on Surf until their Senior year, and then drop DA to get some fun time with their HS friends.


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## met61

... it's the Surf way or the highway.


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## crush

met61 said:


> ... it's the Surf way or the highway.


I say it's more of the Deza way, moo.  This guy is the two touch guru and I like the style for safety reasons and it's the right way to ball.  HSS is rugby and refs never call early yellow and quick red to end this madness.  No more waivers needed because Deza is a real coach and he will say it like it is, which I prefer.  I was only mad because of the waiver issue with the GDA.  Deza will just waive you goodbye if you want to play HSS and that's that.


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## timbuck

Hs soccer isn't pretty. But many kids like it.  If you are on the D1/NT/Pro-Track-  I could see Surf discouraging it.  
But what if you are on the ECNL team but only get garbage time in blowout games.  You are number 19 on the roster (and they can only bring 18 to each game).
If Surf wants to produce pros- this is a good move.  If they want to retain players-  might not be a good move.


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## Nextbigthing

crush said:


> I say it's more of the Deza way, moo.  This guy is the two touch guru and I like the style for safety reasons and it's the right way to ball.  HSS is rugby and refs never call early yellow and quick red to end this madness.  No more waivers needed because Deza is a real coach and he will say it like it is, which I prefer.  I was only mad because of the waiver issue with the GDA.  Deza will just waive you goodbye if you want to play HSS and that's that.


Is Deza going to wave goodbye to all the talented surf players that don't like his mouth and have won alot of games for surf?? Surf girls ECNL teams didnt win a game last weekend... has that ever happened??  Player pools and Deza....MW is sounding real good for north county girls


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## crush

crush said:


> I say it's more of the Deza way, moo.  This guy is the two touch guru and I like the style for safety reasons and it's the right way to ball.  HSS is rugby and refs never call early yellow and quick red to end this madness.  No more waivers needed because Deza is a real coach and he will say it like it is, which I prefer.  I was only mad because of the waiver issue with the GDA.  Deza will just waive you goodbye if you want to play HSS and that's that.


I was waiting for that "like" from you Kicking & Screaming.  You know exactly what the real deal soccer is.  You guys were a fun team for my dd to play against way back when.  My kid would have given up HSS to train with PD or Deza if they were the coaches.  He pulled mine aside after a tough loss a few weeks ago and had some nice things to say her and that made her day   Not trying to brag or think because he said __________________________________ this & that, that she deserves a virtual call up is a totally out of the question.  My kid 100% played his style and I wish he came three years ago if I were to be honest.  I love the style!!  Hey Timmy, if you really want to know what he said I'll PM you.....lol!


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## crush

Nextbigthing said:


> *Is Deza going to wave goodbye to all the talented surf players? *that don't like his mouth and have won alot of games for surf?? Surf girls ECNL teams didnt win a game last weekend... has that ever happened??  Player pools and Deza....MW is sounding real good for north county girls


Yes!  He will pull the best from all of Socal, not SD Nest big thing.  Sharks is nice for the locals that can;t hang with his style.  His style is not for most and most can;t think fast enough.  I honestly wish his style was mandated for all soccer.  He will produce, give him some time.


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## timmyh

crush said:


> I was waiting for that "like" from you Kicking & Screaming.  You know exactly what the real deal soccer is.  You guys were a fun team for my dd to play against way back when.  My kid would have given up HSS to train with PD or Deza if they were the coaches.  He pulled mine aside after a tough loss a few weeks ago and had some nice things to say her and that made her day   Not trying to brag or think because he said __________________________________ this & that, that she deserves a virtual call up.  My kid 100% played his style and I wish he came three years ago if I were to be honest.  I love the style!!  Hey Timmy, if you really want to know what he said I'll PM you.....lol!


Very cool for your player. That had to feel good.


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## ecsoccermom

Thanks for the info.  I think it is too bad.  Playing against a more physical style has its risk but as they get older they will see more of it,  Looking back on past Surf, National Team stars like Mia Fishel playing HS didn’t seem to stunt her development.  Played 2 years before the archaic DA rules seemed to force her to HS Basketball her last two years. 






						Mia Fishel - Women's Soccer - UCLA
					

Mia Fishel (10) Forward  - 2021 Earned her second consecutive United Soccer Coaches All-America honor, being selected to the third team … Selected a second-team




					uclabruins.com
				




 A lot of DOC’s love controlling players.  That is not specific to Surf though.  

That 2 month winter break is a long layoff for games and it is fun to play with your classmates.


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## crush

timmyh said:


> Very cool for your player. That had to feel good.


It did after all she has been through injury wise this season and Covid the last two seasons has been horrible.  She got some real good praise at her only ID Camp as well and she keeps that close to her heart.  Deza is not easy to please as most tough coaches can be and all good coaches rarely give praise to other players.  I actually appreciated it as well if I were to be honest.  I'm not trying to brag or boast about how great my kid is.  She has only played in about 15 games the last three club seasons.  She really loves HSS and she can;t wait for senior season.  He called her by name too so that was nice for her as well.  Trust me Tim, he remembers her when she scored two goals on K & S old team.  Her team won 2-0 and he was pissed.  This is where she was at her peak bro, like three years ago.  She really loves to battle in matches still and will look to finish her career with a great attitude.


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## LASTMAN14

Nextbigthing said:


> Is Deza going to wave goodbye to all the talented surf players that don't like his mouth and have won alot of games for surf?? Surf girls ECNL teams didnt win a game last weekend... has that ever happened??  Player pools and Deza....MW is sounding real good for north county girls


MW over Deza is a definite.


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## Nextbigthing

crush said:


> Yes!  He will pull the best from all of Socal, not SD Nest big thing.  Sharks is nice for the locals that can;t hang with his style.  His style is not for most and most can;t think fast enough.  I honestly wish his style was mandated for all soccer.  He will produce, give him some time.


Please tell me what age groups he's going to dominate in.  Seems he's a Tad late in the ECNL ages...


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## crush

Nextbigthing said:


> Please tell me what age groups he's going to dominate in.  Seems he's a *Tad* late in the ECNL ages...


I caught that, nice one   He did inherit a program that was not producing from when my dd was winning championships there.  Let's give him a year more and then he will have a ECNL Championship at one of the age groups


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## soccer4us

For those who know Deza from Nor Cal days, I'd be surprised if the kids have a choice in playing HS or not. I thought it was part of the contract no HS....


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## Giesbock

Options…

play fun, comraderie, home crowd cheering you on to victory High School soccer for a coach who played one year of HS soccer himself…

or, play and learn the Game from seasoned, smart coach but club parents who more or less sit on their hands except when their team scores…

I guess it depends on how and when you want your soccer journey to end…


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## espola

soccer4us said:


> For those who know Deza from Nor Cal days, I'd be surprised if the kids have a choice in playing HS or not. I thought it was part of the contract no HS....


"Contracts" with minors are hard to enforce.


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## espola

Giesbock said:


> Options…
> 
> play fun, comraderie, home crowd cheering you on to victory High School soccer for a coach who played one year of HS soccer himself…
> 
> or, play and learn the Game from seasoned, smart coach but club parents who more or less sit on their hands except when their team scores…
> 
> I guess it depends on how and when you want your soccer journey to end…


False dichotomy.  In San Diego Section, at least, many of the HS coaches have been playing and coaching (and some refereeing) their whole lives.  Don't allow your bad experience to color the whole universe.


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## soccer4us

espola said:


> "Contracts" with minors are hard to enforce.


I was kidding but threat of spot for some players I guess could be the contract indirectly. Will be interesting how it plays out. I could be wrong but I don't think many of his old 04 Quakes team played HS soccer until after he left to SD. Very possible some of the girls made the choice themselves


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## crush

Just to clarify a few things from yesterday's excitement.  I as in the father for dd would have driven 1 hour and half max to chase the dream back in the day.  My dd told me last night she would never give up playing HSS for anyone and it's super fun and she can;t wait for her Sr season.  I just like watching girls play possession soccer, work together and pass the rock around and tire out the opponent and stay away from injuries


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## MacDre

I’m copying and pasting this from the comment section on a Soccer America article.  Discuss.
frank schoon replied, September 21, 2021 at 10:56 a.m.
John, CP gets hurt because his upbringing in German soccer, especially at Dortmunt, is one of turbo. CP relies more on Turbo, his first reaction with the ball is that not thinking how he can bring his opponent off-balance or what can I do to take advantage of his weakness. CP allows himself to be placed to get hurt as, for example he comes back to midfield to collect the ball when instead he should take advantage of his 1v1 when staying as deep as possible. He needs to position himself better ,like not receiving the ball with his back to opponents for example. He is not build to take these onslaughts and therefore he has to play smarter, positionwise....

With Reyna, his position ,to me, is not on the wing, he's not a winger, he's very predictable in his movements by going always inside and thus easier defend against and get him hurt. I think his position has not been finalized as to where he best should play, perhaps more between the lines but than he needs to be a little quicker as soon as he receives the ball; for I see him a lot times waiting for the ball, not knowing what he should do next, quickly, thus allowing the opponent to tackle him and get him hurt. The style of the US game is not sophisticated enough, not quick enough, technically speaking, to be able to handle the ball movement wise, lacking smarts, like the hispanics, and thereby invites unable to avoid the garbage of play occuring we see at Concacaf.

It was interesting but watching ,I think Amazon, the Dortmunt video with coach that was previous fired. His first words that came out of his mouth was, run, run ,run....I'm sorry John, I thought the Germans were beginning to wise up after the WC of 2002 for they realized their style of turbo, physsical soccer had to change and become more modern. They did, they improved ball possession, passing, etc...They began to copy a lot of the Dutch training techniques, van Gaal became coach of Bayern, later Guardiola...Bayern became the flag ship of good soccer ,the WC'14 showedcased German soccer modern style and the reason was that the team carried 6 Bayern players on the field who were trained by Guardiola and gave the Brazilians a lesson in soccer...

                                                     Next Post.


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## MacDre

Continued…


frank schoon, September 21, 2021 at 11:39 a.m.

It was joy to watch the Germans play in WC'14. The dutch who were going through their doldrums complained that the Germans were playing the "dutch school" of soccer better than we do....
Guardiola left Bayern and things began to waterdown in German soccer, elements such as running ,turbo, fighting are a basic DNA in German soccer and these elements are seeping back in. It is in the German mentality, like the English.

Guardiola in his book stated even though it took him a lot of hard work to change the German mentality by playing more positional games, allowing the ball do the running instead of the player,
the players would come up to him and asked him to allow them to do lots of running, they were missing their turbo. It is something you can't change for it has become part of their soccer culture for so long.

You mentioned speed can't be coached. True, but you see speed as physical thing and I look at speed as a mental thing to further improve. You can't outrun the ball, there will always someone faster no matter how fast one is, so what can you do to improve speed. It is speed of handling the ball, which Reyna should work on, speed of thinking, like a move or two ahead, the speed and/or accuracy of the pass and to the right foot. Speed as related to how you receive the ball, the angle and in what position. Or for example you increase the speed of the game or tempo rather by moving to the ball and receiving it in motion. You know how few players execute this. Just watch the WNT, all receive while standing still. Speed to so many is seen as outrunning the opponent where actually moving to the ball gives you a step on the opponent and that is only what you need for continuity of play. Speed is that extra step you gain that allows you just that extra time , if you have a step ahead, to execut what is next. It is like a shorter player can outhead a taller...how can that happen? That can happen if you think being taller makes you a better header. The same with the use of speed...

The players you named are all Turbo. I wouldn't put Ronaldo there for he has a brain ,is smart, calculating, and picks his spot and is quick, but he doesn't outrun players. Mbappe , is brainless, his first reaction, is like a horse that opened the barn door. He wouldn't know what to do if he played against a team that parks the bus, Haaland, idem ditto. Werner has his problems...

John the problem I find today in soccer is that it left the Barcelona sophisticated phase  where midfielders were small ,technical, smart, who knew how to handle a ball, and allow the ball do the running. We have gone back to counter attacking soccer that takes less brains, more turbo. It is what it is and we have gone back to a more simplistic soccer which is fine but I yearn for a little more intelligence again....


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## BIGD

MacDre said:


> Continued…
> 
> 
> frank schoon, September 21, 2021 at 11:39 a.m.
> 
> It was joy to watch the Germans play in WC'14. The dutch who were going through their doldrums complained that the Germans were playing the "dutch school" of soccer better than we do....
> Guardiola left Bayern and things began to waterdown in German soccer, elements such as running ,turbo, fighting are a basic DNA in German soccer and these elements are seeping back in. It is in the German mentality, like the English.
> 
> Guardiola in his book stated even though it took him a lot of hard work to change the German mentality by playing more positional games, allowing the ball do the running instead of the player,
> the players would come up to him and asked him to allow them to do lots of running, they were missing their turbo. It is something you can't change for it has become part of their soccer culture for so long.
> 
> You mentioned speed can't be coached. True, but you see speed as physical thing and I look at speed as a mental thing to further improve. You can't outrun the ball, there will always someone faster no matter how fast one is, so what can you do to improve speed. It is speed of handling the ball, which Reyna should work on, speed of thinking, like a move or two ahead, the speed and/or accuracy of the pass and to the right foot. Speed as related to how you receive the ball, the angle and in what position. Or for example you increase the speed of the game or tempo rather by moving to the ball and receiving it in motion. You know how few players execute this. Just watch the WNT, all receive while standing still. Speed to so many is seen as outrunning the opponent where actually moving to the ball gives you a step on the opponent and that is only what you need for continuity of play. Speed is that extra step you gain that allows you just that extra time , if you have a step ahead, to execut what is next. It is like a shorter player can outhead a taller...how can that happen? That can happen if you think being taller makes you a better header. The same with the use of speed...
> 
> The players you named are all Turbo. I wouldn't put Ronaldo there for he has a brain ,is smart, calculating, and picks his spot and is quick, but he doesn't outrun players. Mbappe , is brainless, his first reaction, is like a horse that opened the barn door. He wouldn't know what to do if he played against a team that parks the bus, Haaland, idem ditto. Werner has his problems...
> 
> John the problem I find today in soccer is that it left the Barcelona sophisticated phase  where midfielders were small ,technical, smart, who knew how to handle a ball, and allow the ball do the running. We have gone back to counter attacking soccer that takes less brains, more turbo. It is what it is and we have gone back to a more simplistic soccer which is fine but I yearn for a little more intelligence again....


Hard to argue with Frank.  Spot on.


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## crush

Great stuff Dre the troll.....lol


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## Kicker4Life

espola said:


> False dichotomy.  In San Diego Section, at least, many of the HS coaches have been playing and coaching (and some refereeing) their whole lives.  Don't allow your bad experience to color the whole universe.


You should practice what you preach……


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## crush

Kicker4Life said:


> You should practice what you preach……


Or as Jesus said in Matt 7:5, "*Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye*; *and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."*


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## crush

Hey Dre, you know you hit the nail on the head when they call you a troll.  They ((the same folks)) called me a club hopper, Barney, moron, on meds, crazy father who ruined any chance for his player to be recruited, sour grapes dad, living in the past and living through my dd accomplishments because I had zero, medal chaser, troll as well btw, avatar changer, threaten by other posters on here not have dd attend school where EOTL lives, better turn around and not run into the wrong dads at Silver Lakes and I better or should just go away and bury myself before someone buries me.  I love life by the way Dre so If i do get whacked, you will know why.  I am not afraid of the big bad wolf who only cheats, deceives, lies and destroy others in the process so their kids can win.  I am a Scorpio and I will get the last sting in, trust me.


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## MacDre

crush said:


> Hey Dre, you know you hit the nail on the head when they call you a troll.  They ((the same folks)) called me a club hopper, Barney, moron, on meds, crazy father who ruined any chance for his player to be recruited, sour grapes dad, living in the past and living through my dd accomplishments because I had zero, medal chaser, troll as well btw, avatar changer, threaten by other posters on here not have dd attend school where EOTL lives, better turn around and not run into the wrong dads at Silver Lakes and I better or should just go away and bury myself before someone buries me.  I love life by the way Dre so If i do get whacked, you will know why.  I am not afraid of the big bad wolf who only cheats, deceives, lies and destroy others in the process so their kids can win.  I am a Scorpio and I will get the last sting in, trust me.


Don’t worry because the devil is a lie.  You are a child of God and protected.  MOB homie!
*M*oney *O*ver *B*ullshit!!!  I have a dedication for you pal:


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## crush

MacDre said:


> Don’t worry because the devil is a lie.  You are a child of God and protected.  MOB homie!
> *M*oney *O*ver *B*ullshit!!!  I have a dedication for you pal:


That is nice ride Dre and yes, The "MOB" is real and the devil is in the details.  Equality for all, right?  No peace until justice is served for all peeps.


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## Carlsbad7

MacDre said:


> Don’t worry because the devil is a lie.  You are a child of God and protected.  MOB homie!
> *M*oney *O*ver *B*ullshit!!!  I have a dedication for you pal:


Ugh... E-40 needs a better car. A 1970s olive green 4 door Ford Maverick? Wow, new levels of ugly.


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## crush

Carlsbad7 said:


> Ugh... E-40 needs a better car. A 1970s olive green 4 door Ford Maverick? Wow, new levels of ugly.


My dad bought a Ford Pinto Carlsbad 7.  No joke.  Thank God no one hit us in the rear because those cars blew up on impact.


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## Carlsbad7

crush said:


> My dad bought a Ford Pinto Carlsbad 7.  No joke.  Thank God no one hit us in the rear because those cars blew up on impact.
> 
> View attachment 11717


I had a "friend" come by my house to show off the new $100 car he has just bought. It was a Ford Pinto and the entire interior was burned out. Looks like someone had just replaced some of the hoses and pulled out the dents. I looked him when he asked me if I wanted a ride and said "you're driving a Ford Pinto and the interior is completely burned up. I understand that $100 is a good deal for a running car but there's no way I'm ever getting in that car." How many hints do some people need that what they're doing isn't safe? Also, who spends the time to make a completely unsafe car run again after it obviously had already blown up one time.


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## crush

Carlsbad7 said:


> I had a "friend" come by my house to show off the new $100 car he has just bought. It was a Ford Pinto and the entire interior was burned out. Looks like someone had just replaced some of the hoses and pulled out the dents. I looked him when he asked me if I wanted a ride and said "you're driving a Ford Pinto and the interior is completely burned up. I understand that $100 is a good deal for a running car but there's no way I'm ever getting in that car." How many hints do some people need that what they're doing isn't safe? Also, who spends the time to make a completely unsafe car run again after it obviously had already blown up one time.



This is insane!!  I knew some dudes at Troy High School my senior year that spent all day in garages fixing up honda civics and dumb ass cars and they would want to race me over by CSUF. I had a Buick Regal btw and it kicked their asses most of time.  I dont get car stuff because my brain dont think that way.  I always go to auto repair dude thinking about these guys.  I played sports or was in the water all day, not making dumb cars look even dumber.  To each his own, right?


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## MacDre




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## NorCalUSN

Here is a different take on this original post.  Up here in Norcal, (this is second hand so take it with a grain of salt)  my daughter told me about an ECNL/ENRL club that is so stacked for talent at the 04 level, even if the 04 ECRL girls wanted to play for their high school team there would not be a roster spot. This HS team is crammed Seniors unless they were allowed/wanted to play (little fuzzy if they are allowed to) on the JV team they would be season long bench warmers for the HS team. So the club team looks like their outlet/option this season.


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## socalkdg

I wasn't a fan of High School soccer before my daughter played, but when your daughter gets a chance to face 5-6 college bound seniors you really do have to appreciate the challenge. Plus up in the bleachers gives great video.


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## NorCalUSN

I can see both sides of the argument for HSS.  My daughters are 10th and 12th grade.  My 04 has played club and HSS all four years.  My 10th grader (who is IR for the rest of the year with ACL Reconstruction Rehab) has played club and 5 games of last year's abbreviated COVID 19 Season here in NORCAL.  My 04, is a grinder, she has the size and core to give as good as she gets in the HS game where competitors range from "elite" to "Rugby-lite" My 06, is more a fit with the Deza school of touch and movement and definitely not carrying the weight or size of her older sister.  06 is pretty quick and avoids most but some of the opponent team girls just don't have the experience and my wife and I worry about 06 getting hurt against the "rugby-lite" teams. My 06 girl, even with the ACL setback, has a very bright future and we question the benefit of the HS game when the CONs so heavily outweigh the PROs come 22-23 and 23-24 HS season.


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## oh canada

NorCalUSN said:


> I can see both sides of the argument for HSS.  My daughters are 10th and 12th grade.  My 04 has played club and HSS all four years.  My 10th grader (who is IR for the rest of the year with ACL Reconstruction Rehab) has played club and 5 games of last year's abbreviated COVID 19 Season here in NORCAL.  My 04, is a grinder, she has the size and core to give as good as she gets in the HS game where competitors range from "elite" to "Rugby-lite" My 06, is more a fit with the Deza school of touch and movement and definitely not carrying the weight or size of her older sister.  06 is pretty quick and avoids most but some of the opponent team girls just don't have the experience and my wife and I worry about 06 getting hurt against the "rugby-lite" teams. My 06 girl, even with the ACL setback, has a very bright future and we question the benefit of the HS game when the CONs so heavily outweigh the PROs come 22-23 and 23-24 HS season.


Exactly...so the club should be agnostic re playing HS.  Many players LOVE playing HS.  Others don't have an interest.  Let players and families decide what they want to do without repercussion or hints that it is disfavored. The DA rule was wrong. If Surf is discouraging, even ever so slightly, that is just as wrong and unfortunate. But we already know they're not a player/family-centric club.  So, no surprise.


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## crush

oh canada said:


> Exactly...so the club should be agnostic re playing HS.  Many players LOVE playing HS.  Others don't have an interest.  *Let players and families decide what they want to do without repercussion or hints that it is disfavored. The DA rule was wrong.* If Surf is discouraging, even ever so slightly, that is just as wrong and unfortunate. But we already know they're not a player/family-centric club.  So, no surprise.


Yes, the GDA was all wrong and full of shit, so true.  I remember sitting down with my 8th grader who was so torn with going for the gold.  Should I give up HSS, social life with all my new pals ((telling the girls at school their not good enough for her is not good, moo)) and go for the GDA and the hype?  I sat down with her and told her the truth.  The odds of making an actual YNT team or real camp was .01, unless you had direct access to the pick or had Doc in back pocket.  I had neither so she had to be better than Rodman, Turner, Shaw, Jackson or Thompson to get the call.  I had to be honest with my baby.  We both saw Rodman, Turner, Jackson, Thompson, Shaw and a few others up close and how hard it would be to pass them.  Their all very gifted players.  The choice was made to play HSS and look to play a few games in the SCDSL.  What rubbed me and my kid was the BS waivers.  You see, at the very last minute, some girls who had rich daddy's got waivers to do both, instead of a "waive goodbye."  Deza will not move an inch because he's a real coach.  The other Doc I dealt with was the biggest liar and fraudster in soccer.  He or someone got waivers to make everyone happy.  You know, have your cake and ice cream.


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## socalkdg

Our small school had first day of tryouts and had a number of Legends & Arsenal players, plus a few other clubs, some ECNL, some not, but good turnout and looks like we might actually have a JV team this year after only having enough players for varsity.    

Will still be tough to compete vs Santiago and King, but the girls should be up for the challenge and on any given day, you never know.  I do know the quality of soccer for our league is pretty good.   One thing I've noticed is that High School soccer has made our club players more physical, so that is a good thing.  

So if ECNL girls don't play High School, would they just practice with their club team since there are no ECNL games scheduled?


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## MacDre

socalkdg said:


> So if ECNL girls don't play High School, would they just practice with their club team since there are no ECNL games scheduled?


Great question.  I’ve been wondering the same thing.


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## Emma

Club coaches should discuss with their players how to avoid injuries and how to fall correctly.  Coaches should discuss the pros and cons of playing high school soccer.  Coaches should never force or influence a girl's decision on whether she should decides to play high school soccer.  We raise strong girls physically and mentally.  High school soccer or not, it's an individual player's decision based on their individual circumstances.  We should trust them to make the right decisions for themselves with the correct information.  Do not force our daughters or let some older man or woman decide for our daughters.


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## LouSag

crush said:


> I caught that, nice one   He did inherit a program that was not producing from when my dd was winning championships there.  Let's give him a year more and then he will have a ECNL Championship at one of the age groups


I will take that bet.  Surf’s best shot at ECNL championship is the 2006 Girls, and Deza is not even allowed to work with them!  L Hunt is  the gaffer and does a great job with the ‘06s.  Deza’s only full time team is the 07’s.  He has changed the way they play and it takes time—lately their results are not good.


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## crush

LouSag said:


> *I will take that bet.*  Surf’s best shot at ECNL championship is the 2006 Girls, and Deza is not even allowed to work with them!  L Hunt is  the gaffer and does a great job with the ‘06s.  Deza’s only full time team is the 07’s.  He has changed the way they play and it takes time—lately their results are not good.


I never placed a wager bro, it was just a guess I had.  He is DOC of the program and he needs time.  You must start at the lower age groups, moo. Results for U18/19 and even U17 are not measured by the record as much as getting kids into college.  They're #1 in that category.  That older team lost some amazing players over the years that you just can;t replace and they have a few out with injuries.  Plus girls take visits to colleges at this age so you never know who your playing that day.  I think it;s now becoming one giant pool of players and no more real teams.  I was warned this U18/19 age is not like the younger years where winning was everything.  It's more to stay in shape for those already committed and a last chance hope for those that aren't.  My pals kid committed in March this year and is balling in college as I write.


----------



## LouSag

MacDre said:


> Great question.  I’ve been wondering the same thing.


Rumor at Surf is something like a combined age group team of 05/06 or 05/04 practicing during the HS season and playing ECNL showcases in TN, FL and TX the Dec to Feb timeframe.


----------



## crush

LouSag said:


> Rumor at Surf is something like a combined age group team of 05/06 or 05/04 practicing during the HS season and playing ECNL showcases in TN, FL and TX the Dec to Feb timeframe.


That's cool option for the girls who don't want to risk getting injured.  I wont lie, my dd has been hurt every year in HSS.  This last year she was pushed from behind and sprained her ankle super bad.  Oh well, the risk one takes to play HSS.  It can be straight up ugly at times.  Refs just watch and not blow whistle on rugby style hacks.  Not all the girls have a fun HSS team so they say no.  Good soccer Coaches in HS are one in a million.  If you got a great HSS program and a great coach, you focus on what you want.  The other kids get what they want too and all are happy.  if your trying to play two touch & go, then HSS is going to disrupt that for sure and possible to put player behind.  HSS is more like turbo ball like Dre is talking about.  My dd likes both but would prefer Deza style.


----------



## LouSag

crush said:


> I never placed a wager bro, it was just a guess I had.  He is DOC of the program and he needs time.  You must start at the lower age groups, moo. Results for U18/19 and even U17 are not measured by the record as much as getting kids into college.  They're #1 in that category.  That older team lost some amazing players over the years that you just can;t replace and they have a few out with injuries.  Plus girls take visits to colleges at this age so you never know who your playing that day.  I think it;s now becoming one giant pool of players and no more real teams.  I was warned this U18/19 age is not like the younger years where winning was everything.  It's more to stay in shape for those already committed and a last chance hope for those that aren't.  My pals kid committed in March this year and is balling in college as I write.


I agree with you on some aspects.  Once committed to the college, staying in shape and healthy, while still getting quality games, is what’s important. HSS soccer is kind of the opposite of that.   HSS has its benefits (leadership, comraderie, playing for your school, 
Playing a different position, etc…) but quality of play and remaining injury free are certainly not attributes of the HSS experience.  

DOC’s legacy for the older players graduating from his program is what college they attend.  99.9% of these girls need to realize they should be going to college for a degree and not the soccer program. Surf proudly displays success on its website by YNT call ups, senior USWNT players from the Surf program, and national championships (ECNL, DA, not NPL or DPL).  They are not competing with DMCV Sharks as some in the other thread would have argued.

Deza should be starting with the younger age groups, but he’s got Craig Barclay already got doing that important work with the younger half of the Surf program.  Deza needs time, and they will give it to him.  And he will be successful, but a lot of players will leave based on his delivery and style, but there will be many more quality players recruited because of his delivery and style as well.


----------



## youthsportsugghhh

MacDre said:


> Great question.  I’ve been wondering the same thing.


Yes -- most girls who haven't played HS in the past keep practicing with their clubs. Sometimes it is a combined age group practice depending on the numbers. That is at least what I know of some clubs in NorCal.


----------



## youthsportsugghhh

NorCalUSN said:


> I can see both sides of the argument for HSS.  My daughters are 10th and 12th grade.  My 04 has played club and HSS all four years.  My 10th grader (who is IR for the rest of the year with ACL Reconstruction Rehab) has played club and 5 games of last year's abbreviated COVID 19 Season here in NORCAL.  My 04, is a grinder, she has the size and core to give as good as she gets in the HS game where competitors range from "elite" to "Rugby-lite" My 06, is more a fit with the Deza school of touch and movement and definitely not carrying the weight or size of her older sister.  06 is pretty quick and avoids most but some of the opponent team girls just don't have the experience and my wife and I worry about 06 getting hurt against the "rugby-lite" teams. My 06 girl, even with the ACL setback, has a very bright future and we question the benefit of the HS game when the CONs so heavily outweigh the PROs come 22-23 and 23-24 HS season.


My 04 didn't play HS for 2 years as the DA didn't allow it, last year she got the opportunity and loved every minute of it. She had heard all of the negative talk from clubs and players, but the coach asked her and they had a relationship from years before so she played. What we witnessed is that the more talented players were able to stay out of the way of the others 'Rugby' players and there were no significant injuries to the players in her league. Club players had several ACL and broken bones and concussions -- The speed and power of the top club play is significant and can lead to injuries which is what we witnessed.


----------



## Carlsbad7

LouSag said:


> I agree with you on some aspects.  Once committed to the college, staying in shape and healthy, while still getting quality games, is what’s important. HSS soccer is kind of the opposite of that.   HSS has its benefits (leadership, comraderie, playing for your school,
> Playing a different position, etc…) but quality of play and remaining injury free are certainly not attributes of the HSS experience.
> 
> DOC’s legacy for the older players graduating from his program is what college they attend.  99.9% of these girls need to realize they should be going to college for a degree and not the soccer program. Surf proudly displays success on its website by YNT call ups, senior USWNT players from the Surf program, and national championships (ECNL, DA, not NPL or DPL).  They are not competing with DMCV Sharks as some in the other thread would have argued.
> 
> Deza should be starting with the younger age groups, but he’s got Craig Barclay already got doing that important work with the younger half of the Surf program.  Deza needs time, and they will give it to him.  And he will be successful, but a lot of players will leave based on his delivery and style, but there will be many more quality players recruited because of his delivery and style as well.


You wouldnt be mentioning "the other thread" if it wasnt a potential threat. ;-)


----------



## LouSag

Carlsbad7 said:


> You wouldnt be mentioning "the other thread" if it wasnt a potential threat. ;-)


Is any Sharks team in the 2003-2008 girls age groups going to beat any Surf (or Blues, or LAFC) team in the next 3 years?  MW at Sharks is a quality coach, but it will take time to change the ECNL average 13th place finish for a program like Sharks.  Building the club up from the younger age groups is the key and I hope MW stays committed to DMCV Sharks for the long haul.   I wish him the best, the more competition the better for all of So Cal and US soccer.  But threat for Surf….laugh laugh.


----------



## futboldad1

LouSag said:


> Is any Sharks team in the 2003-2008 girls age groups going to beat any Surf (or Blues, or LAFC) team in the next 3 years?  MW at Sharks is a quality coach, but it will take time to change the ECNL average 13th place finish for a program like Sharks.  Building the club up from the younger age groups is the key and I hope MW stays committed to DMCV Sharks for the long haul.   I wish him the best, the more competition the better for all of So Cal and US soccer.  But threat for Surf….laugh laugh.


1,000,000%......here is last year's standings, the season prior (19/20) looked almost identical......and results so far this season has most Sharks teams having lost every one of their first 4 games..... the 09s show promise but Sharks are at least 3 years away from even being a mid table club just as LouSag says.......

    20/21 ECNL Standings (Based on PPG, average finish for club in bold)

----------------------AVG  08   07 06  05  04  03                          
1st     LAFC Slammers         *1.5*    2    2    1    1    1    2
2nd    So Cal Blues SC        *2.0*    1    1    3    4    2    1
3rd    SD Surf                       *3.5*    3    3    2    3    4    6
4th     Real So Cal               * 6.5*    8    7    4    10    3    7
5th     Slammers FC             *6.7    *9    8    5    7    7    4
6th     Phoenix Rising FC     *7.2*    7    6    8    5    8    9
7th     LA Breakers FC         * 8.2 *   11    5    9    9    5    10
8th     Heat FC                      *8.7*    14    9    10    2    6    11
8th     Strikers FC                 *8.7*    13    10    6    8    12    3
10th     Arizona Arsenal SC   *9.3 *   6    12    11    13    9    5
11th     Eagles SC                 *9.5*    4    4    12    11    13    13
12th     Arsenal FC               *10.2*    5    14    14    6    10    12
12th     Rebels SC                *10.2*    10    11    7    14    11    8
14th     DMCV Sharks            *13*    12    13    13    12    14    14


----------



## Carlsbad7

LouSag said:


> Is any Sharks team in the 2003-2008 girls age groups going to beat any Surf (or Blues, or LAFC) team in the next 3 years?  MW at Sharks is a quality coach, but it will take time to change the ECNL average 13th place finish for a program like Sharks.  Building the club up from the younger age groups is the key and I hope MW stays committed to DMCV Sharks for the long haul.   I wish him the best, the more competition the better for all of So Cal and US soccer.  But threat for Surf….laugh laugh.


I completely agree with your statements. However theres one angle you're not accounting for. Surf brings on the best of the best whenever possible. This also means they drop the worst of the worst when push comes to shove. Those players have to go somewhere. It used to be that they'd head for Blues. Now with MW at Sharks other options will be available.


----------



## futboldad1

Carlsbad7 said:


> I completely agree with your statements. However theres one angle you're not accounting for. Surf brings on the best of the best whenever possible. This also means they drop the worst of the worst when push comes to shove. Those players have to go somewhere. It used to be that they'd head for Blues. Now with MW at Sharks other options will be available.


But for ages older than 09 or maybe 08 I doubt that will be the case as MW is Youngers........he's a necessary hire but 3 years to notice a difference in the program as whole seems about right.........B.t.w. did you mean drop worst of the best.....worst of the worst doesn't really apply when it comes to Surf's ECNL and ECRL teams..........


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## Carlsbad7

Sure


futboldad1 said:


> But for ages older than 09 or maybe 08 I doubt that will be the case as MW is Youngers........he's a necessary hire but 3 years to notice a difference in the program as whole seems about right.........B.t.w. did you mean drop worst of the best.....worst of the worst doesn't really apply when it comes to Surf's ECNL and ECRL teams..........


 Sure "worst of the best" would have been at better way to put it. No need to dismiss all the efforts players go through.


----------



## paytoplay

crush said:


> That's cool option for the girls who don't want to risk getting injured.  I wont lie, my dd has been hurt every year in HSS.  This last year she was pushed from behind and sprained her ankle super bad.  Oh well, the risk one takes to play HSS.  It can be straight up ugly at times.  Refs just watch and not blow whistle on rugby style hacks.  Not all the girls have a fun HSS team so they say no.  Good soccer Coaches in HS are one in a million.  If you got a great HSS program and a great coach, you focus on what you want.  The other kids get what they want too and all are happy.  if your trying to play two touch & go, then HSS is going to disrupt that for sure and possible to put player behind.  HSS is more like turbo ball like Dre is talking about.  My dd likes both but would prefer Deza style.


A few years in and I’m starting to believe HS is about as pay to play and corrupt as club is, with the have and have not programs, but without the ability to “club hop” the hell away from your circumstances.


----------



## LouSag

100% agree.  Sharks will be inundated with ECRL players from Surf in all age groups, many quality players.  Rebels have been improving from these types of players the past 2 years as well.


Carlsbad7 said:


> I completely agree with your statements. However theres one angle you're not accounting for. Surf brings on the best of the best whenever possible. This also means they drop the worst of the worst when push comes to shove. Those players have to go somewhere. It used to be that they'd head for Blues. Now with MW at Sharks other options will be availabl


----------



## kickingandscreaming

youthsportsugghhh said:


> Yes -- most girls who haven't played HS in the past keep practicing with their clubs. Sometimes it is a combined age group practice depending on the numbers. That is at least what I know of some clubs in NorCal.


The winter before COVID hit (Dec - Feb) our club combined the girls from their ECNL teams and added college players who were home as well as a few professional players. I was pleased with the experience. It also gave an opportunity to focus on PT since you don't have "league" games every weekend to worry about. They often had games on the weekend but they didn't have to be concerned that the PT work kept them from their peak game readiness.


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## espola

paytoplay said:


> A few years in and I’m starting to believe HS is about as pay to play and corrupt as club is, with the have and have not programs, but without the ability to “club hop” the hell away from your circumstances.


What is that based on?


----------



## Desert Hound

socalkdg said:


> So if ECNL girls don't play High School, would they just practice with their club team since there are no ECNL games scheduled?


It depends on the club. At the club my DD is at from mid Nov to early Jan they have a lot of college players come in and practice. So the few girls not playing HS practice and do scrimmages with them. My DD loves it.


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## oh canada

paytoplay said:


> A few years in and I’m starting to believe HS is about as pay to play and corrupt as club is, with the have and have not programs, but without the ability to “club hop” the hell away from your circumstances.


All of my kids got introduced to older social circles through HS soccer teammates.  Some of those Senior/Junior-Freshman/Soph relationships were very impactful on them in a positive way.  Now they serve as the upper classmen mentors and carry on the tradition. 

We all remember HS.  When a Junior asks you to sit with them at lunch or a Senior invites you for coffee or ice cream after a practice with other Seniors, big confidence boost and elevates your child's standing among the other Freshmen.  Now, they get invited into new Snap circles or other digital friend-groups. It sounds silly, of course, but in the HS world, we all know friendships and social circles are some of the most important and lasting experiences. The dynamic will similarly play out in college. Great to have that experience with 3yr older teammates already.

Adults should not take this decision away from teenagers. They are quite capable and have earned the right to choose for themselves whether to play HS soccer. Keep your opinions to yourself. Let them choose. And certainly do not let a club coach or US Soccer rep influence their decision--that's way outside their lane.


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## kickingandscreaming

oh canada said:


> Adults should not take this decision away from teenagers. They are quite capable and have earned the right to choose for themselves whether to play HS soccer. Keep your opinions to yourself. Let them choose. And certainly do not let a club coach or US Soccer rep influence their decision--that's way outside their lane.


Agree. If my daughter would have wanted to play HS, I would have been fine with it.


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## oh canada

And for those parents at Surf and other clubs already discouraging HS--you need to be more proactive. Your child needs to hear from you that if they want to play HS, you are okay with it and will support them 100%, regardless of what others are doing/saying at the club. Tell them that their opinion and thought on this issue is the ONLY one that matters, and that every player's soccer (and high school) journey is unique. "Do what YOU want to do."


----------



## dreamz

LouSag said:


> I will take that bet.  Surf’s best shot at ECNL championship is the 2006 Girls, and Deza is not even allowed to work with them!  L Hunt is  the gaffer and does a great job with the ‘06s.  Deza’s only full time team is the 07’s.  He has changed the way they play and it takes time—lately their results are not good.


Surf, in its prime, was a train 2-3 days a week juggernaut of a club. Players played high school. They would have a month off in the winter and a month of in the summer after Surf Cup. No one wanted to play Surf. Everyone wanted to play for Surf. The difference was the coaching. Things are over the top now and the teams are going backwards. Keeping it simple brought results. Making it more difficult and having questionable staff is bringing the program down. It's sad to see when the once mighty start to fall.


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## northeastlafc

High school soccer is garbage. From my personal experience in a CIF-LA league, the teams are never built to full potential. You have talented kids who get grade cut (which in my opinion is the dumbest thing ever), you have coaches who show favoritism to players who are sometimes absolutely terrible but because they were in JV the years before they get an automatic spot. Nobody watches the games, sometimes not even the players families because it’s on a school day where they might be at work. And last but not least you have coaches who keep their jobs every year even though they have terrible results because of seniority. I compare HS Soccer to playing CSL Bronze maybe Silver if we’re being generous.
In my opinion it sounds like the OP is just trying to stir something up because this is Surfs choice. If a kid wants to play HS soccer then leave Surf simple as that. But don’t go saying “oh I thought ECNL said HS soccer is okay so why is surf saying to not do it” because like I said that’s the clubs personal choice.


----------



## Giesbock

And if we’re honest, a lot of college soccer is a continuation of high school soccer. Yes, club players make up the bulk of college teams, but college play looks more like high school play. Uncreative play, long balls, poor first touch, no subtlety and anticipation, linking passes.

ok, top tier college play is much better than that, but the bulk is pretty shaky.


----------



## lafalafa

northeastlafc said:


> High school soccer is garbage. From my personal experience in a CIF-LA league, the teams are never built to full potential. You have talented kids who get grade cut (which in my opinion is the dumbest thing ever), you have coaches who show favoritism to players who are sometimes absolutely terrible but because they were in JV the years before they get an automatic spot. Nobody watches the games, sometimes not even the players families because it’s on a school day where they might be at work. And last but not least you have coaches who keep their jobs every year even though they have terrible results because of seniority. I compare HS Soccer to playing CSL Bronze maybe Silver if we’re being generous.
> In my opinion it sounds like the OP is just trying to stir something up because this is Surfs choice. If a kid wants to play HS soccer then leave Surf simple as that. But don’t go saying “oh I thought ECNL said HS soccer is okay so why is surf saying to not do it” because like I said that’s the clubs personal choice.


City league is not that great but that Birmingham team did make it to the finals in regionals and lost in overtime in a very close game.

CIF-SS section is pretty good and most of the D1-D3 are packed with club players.  The Jesuit schools can be like All star club teams, they recruit, have large rosters, and up to 5 paid coaches most of which are club coaches also.

My kids HS  games would sell out the stands during the playoffs every year, they had more fans at those games vs  what most college soccer do during regular season outside students that get in free and happen to be on campus.

There is nothing like playing for your home town, getting cheered on by her fellow students, friends, neighbors and hosting a banner that will be hanging forever.  The friendships, experiences, and memories of high school last long after you graduate.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

lafalafa said:


> There is nothing like playing for your home town, getting cheered on by her fellow students, friends, neighbors and hosting a banner that will be hanging forever.  The friendships, experiences, and memories of high school last long after you graduate.


The social aspect of HS sports is its big "win" over club soccer.


----------



## crush

kickingandscreaming said:


> The social aspect of HS sports is its big "win" over club soccer.


Most Euro coaches that coach club can;t understand HSS and I get that.  They watch and cringe and so do I at times, I wont lie.  But college is rough too.  Its aall a cross between roller derby and rugby but with cleats and a ball.  Refs are not making calls and this type of play is allowed.  The things they say to each other too is insane.  The social aspects as a Fr for my dd and playing with Seniors and being invited to a SR party is super rad.  The Seniors even came and woke my dd up at 5am and took her to breakfast before school.  They also made her where a varsity boys jerseys and dressed her up like him and wear make up all over and just super fun stuff.  We always have a packed house at our home games.  Try playing Los Al on the road or Newport.  Packed house with music before the games.


----------



## lafalafa

crush said:


> Most Euro coaches that coach club can;t understand HSS and I get that.  They watch and cringe and so do I at times, I wont lie.  But college is rough too.  Its aall a cross between roller derby and rugby but with cleats and a ball.  Refs are not making calls and this type of play is allowed.  The things they say to each other too is insane.  The social aspects as a Fr for my dd and playing with Seniors and being invited to a SR party is super rad.  The Seniors even came and woke my dd up at 5am and took her to breakfast before school.  They also made her where a varsity boys jerseys and dressed her up like him and wear make up all over and just super fun stuff.  We always have a packed house at our home games.  Try playing Los Al on the road or Newport.  Packed house with music before the games.


Not usual to see club head coaches as assistants at a high school and/or colleges.  The better ones know how to get the best out of each environment and play a consistent attractive style.

Pocession style is the most difficult to play all the time and some just don't have the patience for it.   Long ball, running and gunning is what you see more in HS but that can be entertaining and fun, rather lose 6-5 vs 1-0 any day time deal.

College game is super physical and they really let them play.   Still not as much procession as you might see in a USL 2 or semi league but more vs what you seen in high school.  Speed of play is incredible on college, everything is like 1, 2 touch..


----------



## crush

lafalafa said:


> Not usual to see club head coaches as assistants at a high school and/or colleges.  The better ones know how to get the best out of each environment and play a consistent attractive style.
> 
> Pocession style is the most difficult to play all the time and some just don't have the patience for it.   Long ball, running and gunning is what you see more in HS but that can be entertaining if you like offense.
> 
> College game is super physical and they really let them play.   Still not as much procession as you might see I'm a USL 2 or semi league but more vs what you see in high school.  Speed of play is incredible on college, everything is like 1, 2 touch..


Great stuff.


----------



## LouSag

LASTMAN14 said:


> MW over Deza is a definite.


MW just watched his ‘05 thru ‘07 DMCV Sharks ECNL girls lose by a combined 16 goals this past weekend in league play to Deza.
I hope MW can turn it around, but it’s gonna take a lot of patience, coaching, and most of all….recruiting.


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## dk_b

HS soccer is like eating at Chili's - if you expect French Laundry, you are going to be really disappointed.  If you expect Chili's, you will be satisfied.

My older daughter played 4 years of HS and many years of ECNL. She loved playing for her school. It's not about the style of play or the "growth" of the team - her school was an amalgam of players from different clubs and very few D1 players (1 playing in the Pac-12 and 1 playing in Ivy) but b/c she played for a club outside of her community, she just loved playing with her schoolmates. It will have zero impact on what she achieves in soccer (it hasn't so far) but I can guarantee it enhanced her love for the sport and her community. And anyone who thinks that taking a 3 or 4 month break to play with your school adversely impacts development is attributing far too much to that period of time. If not, no player could return to form after a significant injury. For strong players, playing a less structured, less pressure-filled game can be a nice break. In the end, I think it should always be the player's/family's decision, not the club's.

As for injury - my 3 soccer playing kids have suffered injuries as many of yours have.  We have seen minor broken bones, broken bones requiring surgery, ankle sprains, torn ACLs, etc.  All but one (one of the 2 ACL tears that my twins are rehabbing) has occurred in the club context. My older kid played a position where she was in direct fire for less skilled players beating the crap out of her in a HS game and I found it no more risky than in club (the worst injury she had in HS was a leg-to-leg collision that hit her so hard that the skin on her shin - with a shin guard protecting it - split.  The other player?  A very good, high-level, club player)


----------



## crush

dk_b said:


> HS soccer is like eating at Chili's - if you expect French Laundry, you are going to be really disappointed.  If you expect Chili's, you will be satisfied.
> 
> My older daughter played 4 years of HS and many years of ECNL. She loved playing for her school. It's not about the style of play or the "growth" of the team - her school was an amalgam of players from different clubs and very few D1 players (1 playing in the Pac-12 and 1 playing in Ivy) but b/c she played for a club outside of her community, she just loved playing with her schoolmates. It will have zero impact on what she achieves in soccer (it hasn't so far) but I can guarantee it enhanced her love for the sport and her community. And anyone who thinks that taking a 3 or 4 month break to play with your school adversely impacts development is attributing far too much to that period of time. If not, no player could return to form after a significant injury. For strong players, playing a less structured, less pressure-filled game can be a nice break. In the end, I think it should always be the player's/family's decision, not the club's.
> 
> As for injury - my 3 soccer playing kids have suffered injuries as many of yours have.  We have seen minor broken bones, broken bones requiring surgery, ankle sprains, torn ACLs, etc.  All but one (one of the 2 ACL tears that my twins are rehabbing) has occurred in the club context. My older kid played a position where she was in direct fire for less skilled players beating the crap out of her in a HS game and I found it no more risky than in club (the worst injury she had in HS was a leg-to-leg collision that hit her so hard that the skin on her shin - with a shin guard protecting it - split.  The other player?  A very good, high-level, club player)


A dad with experience.  Thanks for sharing your journey bro.  My dd is playing possession style soccer with her hss team and will stay out of rugby style plays and win at all cost moments.  She has matured beyond years and is looking at this as a fun senior year with expectations only at just having fun with her friends and maybe make a little run with a little luck and a bad bounce and her team can make playoffs and a run in the playoffs against schools with 3000+ and or Private Schools.  Her little school 700+ got moved up to D1 and I was blown away.  Does not sit will but whatever.  I was shocked and floored at the same time but her little team is up for the challenge.  My dd got pushed hard from behind last year in hss and broker her a bone in her ankle and then got her hair pulled down in a rugby match game at club and was out for a while.  Girls play this game for weird reasons.  We need to find a safer way to play so less ACL and that is possession only and quick yellow and reds to ends this madness once and for all.


----------



## BIGD

dk_b said:


> I think it should always be the player's/family's decision, not the club's.


Agree with everything you wrote but it really all comes down to this.  

MLS Next should really be reconsidering this rule for their non-MLS academies in the league.  I've seen a lot more players this year leave their non-MLS Academy Club to play high school than I have seen in past years.  I think that's a trend that will continue.


----------



## dk_b

BIGD said:


> Agree with everything you wrote but it really all comes down to this.
> 
> MLS Next should really be reconsidering this rule for their non-MLS academies in the league.  I've seen a lot more players this year leave their non-MLS Academy Club to play high school than I have seen in past years.  I think that's a trend that will continue.


I am not sure how scheduling works but I think one of the problems with GDA (and a big contributor to its downfall) was US Soccer's desire to schedule nationally and not allow the clubs to schedule locally (as is permitted in ECNL other than for national events).  By scheduling locally, clubs and regions could take a HS break - only 6 or so states play HS in the winter and, of the balance, about half play in fall and half play in spring. But if ECNL, like GDA, wanted to schedule all games from a national perspective, it would be a total nightmare when you consider not just HS soccer but proms and SATs and other events.  If GDA had taken its foot of the gas a bit, the buy-in would have been much higher in a state like CA where so many of the top players DO play HS (even I know about JSerra and the HS battles in the southland and I'm in the Bay Area. EBAL players up here did not go to GDA in high #s b/c in the 680 corridor up here, HS is HUGE).

Back to your point about MLS Next: if scheduling is handled nationally, I can't imagine permitting a HS break. The logistics would be too daunting.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

LouSag said:


> MW just watched his ‘05 thru ‘07 DMCV Sharks ECNL girls lose by a combined 16 goals this past weekend in league play to Deza.
> I hope MW can turn it around, but it’s gonna take a lot of patience, coaching, and most of all….recruiting.


Not everything that glitters is gold.  How long has MW been at DMCV?  His recruiting might get a lot easier from what I am hearing.


----------



## Goforgoal

LouSag said:


> MW just watched his ‘05 thru ‘07 DMCV Sharks ECNL girls lose by a combined 16 goals this past weekend in league play to Deza.
> I hope MW can turn it around, but it’s gonna take a lot of patience, coaching, and most of all….recruiting.


Of course. Even Pep can't just walk into Norwich City and immediately start beating Liverpool and Chelsea. It takes better, more committed players. Obviously this season is still reflective of the state of the previous club, and future seasons will reflect any changes MW has been able to execute. It starts with the coaching staff, which if the rumors are true, we'll see some new faces wearing Sharks coach kits in the not too distant future. Then it's attracting better players, which I personally think will happen, first through recruiting then organically. The hard part will be getting those parents who are too fixated on results to buy in and see the forest through the trees.

In the end, I see Sharks teams improving competitively across the board in the seasons ahead of us, which is what Surf wants right? Better competition for their teams week in an week out? Or do they want to continue to flex their weekend results against Rebels and Sharks on their Instagram account? Naw .. they couldn't want that.


----------



## socalkdg

northeastlafc said:


> High school soccer is garbage. From my personal experience in a CIF-LA league, the teams are never built to full potential. You have talented kids who get grade cut (which in my opinion is the dumbest thing ever), you have coaches who show favoritism to players who are sometimes absolutely terrible but because they were in JV the years before they get an automatic spot. Nobody watches the games, sometimes not even the players families because it’s on a school day where they might be at work. And last but not least you have coaches who keep their jobs every year even though they have terrible results because of seniority. I compare HS Soccer to playing CSL Bronze maybe Silver if we’re being generous.
> In my opinion it sounds like the OP is just trying to stir something up because this is Surfs choice. If a kid wants to play HS soccer then leave Surf simple as that. But don’t go saying “oh I thought ECNL said HS soccer is okay so why is surf saying to not do it” because like I said that’s the clubs personal choice.


Your League might be that way, but our girls league has a CIF winner from last year D3 and a Quarter Finalist D1.   Teams have 5-10 ECNL players each as well as top players  from SoCal League and CSL.  Only one poor team out of 6, the rest produce great games.  

As many have mentioned, if you kid wants to do it then we as parents should let them.


----------



## outside!

northeastlafc said:


> You have talented kids who get grade cut (which in my opinion is the dumbest thing ever)


You raise some good points, but telling kids they don't get to play HS soccer unless they keep a certain grade point average gives some motivation to a few kids to do better in school. I can't see how that is the dumbest thing ever. School is more important than soccer for almost everyone.


----------



## Carlsbad7

LouSag said:


> MW just watched his ‘05 thru ‘07 DMCV Sharks ECNL girls lose by a combined 16 goals this past weekend in league play to Deza.
> I hope MW can turn it around, but it’s gonna take a lot of patience, coaching, and most of all….recruiting.


It's going to take time for MW to get things going at Sharks. Assuming he doesnt leave any time soon.

Surf has been funneling top level talent (both player and coaching) for a long time. Sharks only recently stopped sucking as much as usual.


----------



## GoldenGate

northeastlafc said:


> High school soccer is garbage. From my personal experience in a CIF-LA league, the teams are never built to full potential. You have talented kids who get grade cut (which in my opinion is the dumbest thing ever), you have coaches who show favoritism to players who are sometimes absolutely terrible but because they were in JV the years before they get an automatic spot. Nobody watches the games, sometimes not even the players families because it’s on a school day where they might be at work. And last but not least you have coaches who keep their jobs every year even though they have terrible results because of seniority. I compare HS Soccer to playing CSL Bronze maybe Silver if we’re being generous.
> In my opinion it sounds like the OP is just trying to stir something up because this is Surfs choice. If a kid wants to play HS soccer then leave Surf simple as that. But don’t go saying “oh I thought ECNL said HS soccer is okay so why is surf saying to not do it” because like I said that’s the clubs personal choice.


Maybe your kid had a bad experience, but it's hardly typical.  HS allows many elite players, who spend years working hard in club but get zero recognition from their peers, to be finally recognized which can be a big deal. HS soccer can also help elite players develop leadership and individual skills since they get to be the undisputed alpha for a change, whereas they're just one of many on a top club team. If you're upset HS soccer isn't helping kids reach their full potential, you're missing the point because it isn't about that. Of course HS won't help anyone reach their full potential as soccer players but, honestly, that's highly overrated and usually a stupid priority. HS can help many kids reach their potential as well rounded people during some hugely important formative years, however.

Kids also don't get grade cut if they're actually good, with the exception that freshmen playing varsity often presents concerns about physical or emotional maturity. If a kid is cut from HS, or not getting PT due to perceived favoritism, the inescapable reality is they just aren't very good even if reasonable minds differ whether they're better than the crappy kid who barely made the team over them or the worst of the other 10 or more field players who are getting more PT.  Almost always, the parent who is angry about these things had ridiculously inflated opinions about their kid's ability, because truly good players are never, ever at risk for those problems. Bad players might be but, if so, it also means they're part of the problem with the sometimes low quality of HS play that you are complaining about. 

And if you're upset a coach selected a player for varsity because they worked hard, put in their dues, and showed loyalty over the course of multiple years, I highly recommend you take a step back and re-evaluate, because you are missing a very important life lesson that is so obvious it doesn't need explaining.  You are also missing an important lesson if you're upset about HS coaches keeping their job despite poor results, namely that HS soccer is not important to a HS administration compared to pretty much anything. In fact, good for any HS coach who rewards good kids who work hard and show commitment over prima donnas who have bitter angry parents with delusional opinions about their kids' ability and who expect to be given whatever they want just by rolling in and without having to put in any work. 

And your assertion that no one watches HS games is wrong. My kid's team had better attendance at every HS game she ever played than any ECNL, GDA or even YNT game, and at least 3 with more than 1,000 fans. I'm sure there are schools where no one watches because they team is shit but, really, if a team is so bad it can't beat other "garbage" opposition, that's the real problem, not HS soccer generally.


----------



## crush

Well, my dd is playing HHS for the fourth year in row and ain't no one going to tell her not to either.  She had some top Docs tell her HSS is shit and dangerous and stay clear of hss.  Her hss team is in the #1 league in the country, moo.  Everyone and everyone who plays ECNL or GA will be playing HSS.  Not all leagues are the same.  I'm getting ready to watch our home opener against the power house JSierra.  This is a Diana vs Goliatha type of game and we need miracle.  Shall we park da bus and go for the tie?  Kickball anyone?  How about just play for fun and play the passing game and not worry about the "W."  I will say I'm super duper looking forward to watching a match with a full house of students and family.  Good luck to all the great high school matches tonight and this season.  Play possession, pass it on   P.S.  If your a ref, please call quick fouls early on and please hand out yellow and reds.  If my kid needs a card, give it to her.  I'm really grateful to watch this last season.  I'm not happy about being called up to Division 1 but oh well.  Safety first refs!!!


----------



## NoSouppForYou

IT 


LouSag said:


> MW just watched his ‘05 thru ‘07 DMCV Sharks ECNL girls lose by a combined 16 goals this past weekend in league play to Deza.
> I hope MW can turn it around, but it’s gonna take a lot of patience, coaching, and most of all….recruiting.


It was not pretty for Sharks but to be accurate:  
U19 1-0 Surf
U17 2-0 Surf  (Deza coached)
U16 6-0 Surf
U15 4-0 Surf (includes MW recruits) (Deza coached)
U14 6-0 Surf (MW coached team with multiple Albion recruits)
U13 6-1 Surf (MW coached team and 90% his Albion 09 team)

MW is not the savior everyone seems to think he will be for Sharks.  He doesn't have the patience, coaching skill, nor does San Diego have enough talent outside Surf to be competitive in the Sonoran division.  MW was out coached by CB in the 09 game as well by DT in the 08 game.  The older Sharks coaches made better adjustments than MW in their games to keep it close.


----------



## RedHawk

NoSouppForYou said:


> IT
> 
> It was not pretty for Sharks but to be accurate:
> U19 1-0 Surf
> U17 2-0 Surf  (Deza coached)
> U16 6-0 Surf
> U15 4-0 Surf (includes MW recruits) (Deza coached)
> U14 6-0 Surf (MW coached team with multiple Albion recruits)
> U13 6-1 Surf (MW coached team and 90% his Albion 09 team)
> 
> MW is not the savior everyone seems to think he will be for Sharks.  He doesn't have the patience, coaching skill, nor does San Diego have enough talent outside Surf to be competitive in the Sonoran division.  MW was out coached by CB in the 09 game as well by DT in the 08 game.  The older Sharks coaches made better adjustments than MW in their games to keep it close.


MW hasn't been there six months.  You have to give him some time!!


----------



## Soccerdude oc

NoSouppForYou said:


> IT
> 
> It was not pretty for Sharks but to be accurate:
> U19 1-0 Surf
> U17 2-0 Surf  (Deza coached)
> U16 6-0 Surf
> U15 4-0 Surf (includes MW recruits) (Deza coached)
> U14 6-0 Surf (MW coached team with multiple Albion recruits)
> U13 6-1 Surf (MW coached team and 90% his Albion 09 team)
> 
> MW is not the savior everyone seems to think he will be for Sharks.  He doesn't have the patience, coaching skill, nor does San Diego have enough talent outside Surf to be competitive in the Sonoran division.  MW was out coached by CB in the 09 game as well by DT in the 08 game.  The older Sharks coaches made better adjustments than MW in their games to keep it close.


 MW has had these teams for 2 months and yes there were alot of 09 girls from his old team that came but the other teams only have 1-3 new players if that. I know that the 07s have 2-3 new players and the 08 have 2 new field players (not enough to completly transform a team no matter the talent). And you are going to measure sucess by wether or not they beat Surf one of the top teams? MW hasn't even had tryouts yet. He hasn't even picked his team. Give him a full year and then you can say something. It's great to see another ECNL option for girls in SD. I have no doubt he won't have any problem recruiting this year and from clubs other than Albion. I am rooting for them.


----------



## socceruser

NoSouppForYou said:


> IT
> 
> It was not pretty for Sharks but to be accurate:
> U19 1-0 Surf
> U17 2-0 Surf  (Deza coached)
> U16 6-0 Surf
> U15 4-0 Surf (includes MW recruits) (Deza coached)
> U14 6-0 Surf (MW coached team with multiple Albion recruits)
> U13 6-1 Surf (MW coached team and 90% his Albion 09 team)
> 
> MW is not the savior everyone seems to think he will be for Sharks.  He doesn't have the patience, coaching skill, nor does San Diego have enough talent outside Surf to be competitive in the Sonoran division.  MW was out coached by CB in the 09 game as well by DT in the 08 game.  The older Sharks coaches made better adjustments than MW in their games to keep it close.


The multiple recruits you speak of has not happened yet. The 09 team does have multiple but also includes multiple 2010 players playing up.  07 and 08 maybe at most has 1 or 2 recruits.  MW is having tryouts soon so we will see what happens then.  Any type of judgement is just way too early. Most rosters are still 90 percent original shark players, he is doing the right thing to allow the original players to play until a proper tryout.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

NoSouppForYou said:


> MW is not the savior everyone seems to think he will be for Sharks.  He doesn't have the patience, coaching skill, nor does San Diego have enough talent outside Surf to be competitive in the Sonoran division.  MW was out coached by CB in the 09 game as well by DT in the 08 game.  The older Sharks coaches made better adjustments than MW in their games to keep it close.


I don't know MW.  I know that CB & DT are both good coaches.   Maybe MW was out coached, but unless changes are made you may see a reshuffling of SD talent.  I am hearing there are quite a few unhappy parents.


----------



## dad4

Can one of you all define what you mean by "grade cut".

I have no idea whether you mean 
- cutting someone whose academic grade is too high ( decent, but too old for JV)
- cutting someone whose academic grade is too low.  ( Good enough, but no frosh on varsity.)
-putting someone in a reduced grade, to give them an age advantage.  (Redshirting)
-cutting someone who can't compete because of bad grades

The last seems most likely, but I can't see why that would qualify as a dumb idea.


----------



## Brav520

Sharks have 1 , Flight 1 team between 2010-2014 girls ( 2010 girls )

Give CIty SC Carlsbad ECNL status and take away from sharks


----------



## Carlsbad7

Brav520 said:


> Sharks have 1 , Flight 1 team between 2010-2014 girls ( 2010 girls )
> 
> Give CIty SC Carlsbad ECNL status and take away from sharks


Not likely to happen for a while. Duggan went all in on DA, GA, and DPL a while ago + doesnt seem to want to change. 

Also City licensing its name to smaller clubs would make a switch to ECNL difficult.

Also also Surf and to a lesser extent Blues dont want City in ECNL.


----------



## Sike

Carlsbad7 said:


> Not likely to happen for a while. Duggan went all in on DA, GA, and DPL a while ago + doesnt seem to want to change.
> 
> Also City licensing its name to smaller clubs would make a switch to ECNL difficult.
> 
> Also also Surf and to a lesser extent Blues dont want City in ECNL.


Why in the world would Blues care about City?


----------



## NoSouppForYou

Carlsbad7 said:


> Not likely to happen for a while. Duggan went all in on DA, GA, and DPL a while ago + doesnt seem to want to change.
> 
> Also City licensing its name to smaller clubs would make a switch to ECNL difficult.
> 
> Also also Surf and to a lesser extent Blues dont want City in ECNL.


Duggan begged for ECNL, applied every year until he was bailed out with DA. What Surf and Blues want is Duggan to stay DOC and chase every high level player to their clubs. He also chases his high level coaches from BG to now AW to Surf, let alone all the others that are coaching around North County. Lightning/Wave/Galaxy/City will never have ECNL until the club gets a new DOC. It is a shame for all the talented players in Carlsbad that could stay in their own backyard but are forced to continue their development elsewhere because of his narcissistic approach to running a club. Every ECNL roster at Blues and Surf has Carlsbad girls. A sad story to look at the Carlsbad High/Sage Creek rosters and see the best players are those that play club soccer at Surf and Blues.  City’s affiliate network has nothing to do with not getting ECNL. Surf and Slammers have affiliates all over SoCal, no problem there.


----------



## Carlsbad7

Sike said:


> Why in the world would Blues care about City?


Surf and Blues have the same reasons for keeping City out of ECNL. North County SD has a lot of talent. Surf likes to comb through all of the City/Galaxy/United teams for players to recruit. 

Before MW went to Sharks Carlsbad/Oceanside players would go to Blues if they didnt get into Surf. Believe it or not the drive to Blues from North San Diego is pretty much the same as Surf /Polo fields (when you factor in traffic)


----------



## Lightning Red

Carlsbad7 said:


> Surf and Blues have the same reasons for keeping City out of ECNL. North County SD has a lot of talent. Surf likes to comb through all of the City/Galaxy/United teams for players to recruit.
> 
> Before MW went to Sharks Carlsbad/Oceanside players would go to Blues if they didnt get into Surf. Believe it or not the drive to Blues from North San Diego is pretty much the same as Surf /Polo fields (when you factor in traffic)


MW is a fantastic coach and an even better guy but if any of you seriously think that Surf will lose out you are nuts. I watched 4/5 of the games on Sunday and the scores didn’t tell the story. Every game could have been 10+.


----------



## Carlsbad7

Lightning Red said:


> MW is a fantastic coach and an even better guy but if any of you seriously think that Surf will lose out you are nuts. I watched 4/5 of the games on Sunday and the scores didn’t tell the story. Every game could have been 10+.


It doesnt matter if Sharks beat Surf or not. However Sharks will get better over time and eventually one of the teams will beat Surf. (What I would pay to be a fly on the wall in that coaches meeting)

For now pressing for a culture change in Sharks + fostering a winning attitude is the first step.


----------



## crush

Carlsbad7 said:


> It doesnt matter if Sharks beat Surf or not. However Sharks will get better over time and eventually one of the teams will beat Surf. (What I would pay to be a fly on the wall in that coaches meeting)
> 
> For now pressing for a culture change in Sharks + fostering a winning attitude is the first step.


To beat the best, you need to give full rides to your top 11 players.  My advice to MW is to offer a "free 4 year development offer" to all top players in SD, South OC and Temecula and even Mexico.  I'm serious.  Pay the top players to come play for your club and you win, trust me!!!


----------



## Goforgoal

Lightning Red said:


> MW is a fantastic coach and an even better guy but if any of you seriously think that Surf will lose out you are nuts. I watched 4/5 of the games on Sunday and the scores didn’t tell the story. Every game could have been 10+.


I don't think anyone here is saying that Red. Surf's rock solid starting 11 are not going anywhere, or even the 12-14 that get enough playing time. It's the 15 to 20, and solid ECRL players that Sharks may be able to pick up here and there that improve their starting 11. At least to a point to give other teams in the league better games. That's clearly the objective, and that situation would be better for everyone involved I would think.


----------



## crush

Goforgoal said:


> I don't think anyone here is saying that Red. Surf's rock solid starting 11 are not going anywhere, or even the 12-14 that get enough playing time. It's the 15 to 20, and solid ECRL players that Sharks may be able to pick up here and there that improve their starting 11. At least to a point to give other teams in the league better games. That's clearly the objective, and that situation would be better for everyone involved I would think.


Truth is, what is 15-20 today might be top 5 player 3 years later.


----------



## Brav520

I propose Surf, Blues , and Slammers break off and start a super duper league with the other top clubs in the country

homeschool all the players , have some of those wealthy parents finance the charter of jets to weekend games across the country . True academy style , where the kids eat, live and breathe soccer


----------



## Soccer43

Every year this is a discussion.  Some parents come on and say HS is garbage filled with injury risk and site multiple horrific injuries that they have witnessed or experienced.  Then other parents come on to refute that and say their high school has quality play with lots of ECNL players scattered on the teams and that it is the best experience.  It varies so much based on your high school league, your opinions, and the club you are at.  For us, playing HS was the time of their lives and brought a tremendous benefit of community spirit, joy for the game, and high level competition that was safe and fun and a trophy or two along the way.  They will cherish those memories and experiences forever.  Club was fun and loved the club team but it was always more like a job.  Make your own decision.  Honor your player's views and feelings about this.  It is such a short time that flies by, let them have that joy whether it is no HS or 100% HS.  Once they get to college it is all work.


----------



## Carlsbad7

Brav520 said:


> I propose Surf, Blues , and Slammers break off and start a super duper league with the other top clubs in the country
> 
> homeschool all the players , have some of those wealthy parents finance the charter of jets to weekend games across the country . True academy style , where the kids eat, live and breathe soccer


I realize that you're poking fun however...

1. Surf is trying to get a resident player program off the ground.
2. I actually know a couple of player parents with jets that could make this happen. (Sharks parents believe it or not)

Be careful what you wish for. ;-)


----------



## Lightning Red

Lightning Red said:


> MW is a fantastic coach and an even better guy but if any of you seriously think that Surf will lose out you are nuts. I watched 4/5 of the games on Sunday and the scores didn’t tell the story. Every game could have been 10+.


Your


Goforgoal said:


> I don't think anyone here is saying that Red. Surf's rock solid starting 11 are not going anywhere, or even the 12-14 that get enough playing time. It's the 15 to 20, and solid ECRL players that Sharks may be able to pick up here and there that improve their starting 11. At least to a point to give other teams in the league better games. That's clearly the objective, and that situation would be better for everyone involved I would think.


My point is that it’s going to take 3/5 years before they could make a true impact if things stayed the same as today’s environment. It has to start with the Younger’s. Most of us on this forum will have aged out before that could potentially happen.


----------



## LouSag

Goforgoal said:


> Of course. Even Pep can't just walk into Norwich City and immediately start beating Liverpool and Chelsea. It takes better, more committed players. Obviously this season is still reflective of the state of the previous club, and future seasons will reflect any changes MW has been able to execute. It starts with the coaching staff, which if the rumors are true, we'll see some new faces wearing Sharks coach kits in the not too distant future. Then it's attracting better players, which I personally think will happen, first through recruiting then organically. The hard part will be getting those parents who are too fixated on results to buy in and see the forest through the trees.
> 
> In the end, I see Sharks teams improving competitively across the board in the seasons ahead of us, which is what Surf wants right? Better competition for their teams week in an week out? Or do they want to continue to flex their weekend results against Rebels and Sharks on their Instagram account? Naw .. they couldn't want that.


Surf’s rivals are not Sharks or Rebels.  Surf’s rivals are Solar, Colorado Rapids, KC Athletics, and LAFC Koge.  They judge themselves against those teams.  Yes, Surf does want better competition from Sharks…and they are already getting that from Rebels.


----------



## ecsoccermom

Question...what does Surf offer their teams during winter break to entice girls not to play HS?  Is it just extra training/practices?


----------



## Carlsbad7

ecsoccermom said:


> Question...what does Surf offer their teams during winter break to entice girls not to play HS?  Is it just extra training/practices?


Top level soccer in Socal is year round for most clubs. In "winter" after league theres Tournamnets both field and futsal for players to participate in. Practice sessions are generally year round.

This is why the top colleges recruit from Socal. High level talent is/are amazing. Even not as high level talent is really really good. Also, players have been through the club meat grinder + typically understand what's expected when a coach recruits you.


----------



## LouSag

ecsoccermom said:


> Question...what does Surf offer their teams during winter break to entice girls not to play HS?  Is it just extra training/practices?


1.  FOMO
2.  Veiled threats…Deza will not support the player in college recruiting if she chooses HS soccer over Surf.
3. 2-3 practices a week and travel to an ECNL showcase playing in the 2005 age group from the pool of approx 40 players in the 05-07 age group who have chosen to stay at Surf over the HS period. 
Curious to see how this all works out…


----------



## crush

LouSag said:


> 1.  FOMO
> *2.  Veiled threats*…Deza will not support the player in college recruiting if she chooses HS soccer over Surf.
> 3. 2-3 practices a week and travel to an ECNL showcase playing in the 2005 age group from the pool of approx 40 players in the 05-07 age group who have chosen to stay at Surf over the HS period.
> Curious to see how this all works out…


So sad to do this to incoming freshman girls.  My dd chose HSS 4 years ago and is so glad she did.  Threats were real though and getting blacklisted by the powerful is real.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

LouSag said:


> 1.  FOMO
> 2.  Veiled threats…Deza will not support the player in college recruiting if she chooses HS soccer over Surf.
> 3. 2-3 practices a week and travel to an ECNL showcase playing in the 2005 age group from the pool of approx 40 players in the 05-07 age group who have chosen to stay at Surf over the HS period.
> Curious to see how this all works out…


The threats aren't veiled.  And apparently too many girls had FOMO as he only wanted 18 so they will force some out of the winter training to get to 18.


----------



## Socal-Soccer-Dad

I don't have HS aged kids in soccer but I've heard from parents with olders that some HS coaches (also coaching a club team different than the club your kid is on) force kids to change clubs to his or her team to be able to have any playing time on the HS team. One particular parent I know is considering changing their kid's long time club to another club so the HS coach will see the kid favorably. (The kid really wants to play HSS)

Seems sort of unethical for the HS coach to demand this. Is this typical or widespread?


----------



## espola

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> I don't have HS aged kids in soccer but I've heard from parents with olders that some HS coaches (also coaching a club team different than the club your kid is on) force kids to change clubs to his or her team to be able to have any playing time on the HS team. One particular parent I know is considering changing their kid's long time club to another club so the HS coach will see the kid favorably. (The kid really wants to play HSS)
> 
> Seems sort of unethical for the HS coach to demand this. Is this typical or widespread?


If you have solid evidence, inform the school's AD and Principal.  The coach should be sacked.


----------



## crush

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> I don't have HS aged kids in soccer but I've heard from parents with olders that some HS coaches (also coaching a club team different than the club your kid is on) force kids to change clubs to his or her team to be able to have any playing time on the HS team. One particular parent I know is considering changing their kid's long time club to another club so the HS coach will see the kid favorably. (The kid really wants to play HSS)
> 
> *Seems sort of unethical for the HS coach to demand this.* Is this typical or widespread?


Yikes!!!  I can see all the interest in the conflicts of interest and the use of power over one's head would be horrible if true.  You really think a coach would demand a player quit their club family team and play for his club team and hss team to insure all goes well?  If this is true, then this takes pay to play to a whole new level I have never ever heard of.


----------



## GoldenGate

LouSag said:


> 1.  FOMO
> 2.  Veiled threats…Deza will not support the player in college recruiting if she chooses HS soccer over Surf.
> 3. 2-3 practices a week and travel to an ECNL showcase playing in the 2005 age group from the pool of approx 40 players in the 05-07 age group who have chosen to stay at Surf over the HS period.
> Curious to see how this all works out…


I love this talk about Deza by people who have no idea what they're talking about.  For the record, Deza never kicked a kid off his club for playing HS although he has encouraged their exit for lack of commitment combined with lack of sufficient ability.  Even when US Soccer kicked his Quakes players out of GDA, he assured them he'd find a way to work around it, and he did.  In fact, his going rogue on US Soccer by supporting his HS players contributed greatly to the demise of GDA. Deza will absolutely support his players in college recruiting even if they play HS, just as he always has.  But it comes with caveats, because there are always consequences to decisions.  He will be candid with your kid about those consequences, but don't confuse honesty with "threats" just because you don't want to hear the truth.

Specifically, Deza will discourage HS because the fact of the matter is a kid will not get better quality training playing HS, they run higher injury risks, and it is harder for a kid to get recruited when they miss ECNL showcases because they are missing 50 or more college coaches getting to see them play. That is just how it is.  Also, when a bunch of players miss showcases because they're playing HS, it hurts not only their recruiting opportunities, but also their teammates opportunities because the team and remaining players just aren't going to perform as well in front of a large audience of college coaches when they're missing a lot of kids.  From a club's perspective it is pretty messed up when the club's objective for a team is to get them ALL recruited for college, but there are families that don't give a shit about anyone other than themselves.

Regardless, if your kid can really play, Deza isn't going to kick then out.  They run the risk of reduced playing time or being moved to a lower team because another kid may come along while your kid is gone or an existing one improves to the point that they pass your kid.  Playing time may suffer for a while because his job is to get kids recruited, and he's going to make a priority of those who show that getting recruited is a priority to them. Anyone who thinks being told these truths is a "threat" is just a typical stupid soccer parent who refuses to accept that there are consequences for decisions.  They also probably refuse to accept that their kid just isn't good enough to guarantee that they can miss three months of club without getting passed up.  If you want your kid to play HS and continue starting ECNL at Surf, they need to be really good.  If they aren't, they take their chances. That is how life works.

Oh, and Deza has never wanted a small roster in his life.  Maybe he can bring only 18 to a game, but claiming that he only wants 18 kids to train is just a lie.


----------



## BIGD

GoldenGate said:


> Specifically, Deza will discourage HS because the fact of the matter is a kid will not get better quality training playing HS, they run higher injury risks, and it is harder for a kid to get recruited when they miss ECNL showcases because they are missing 50 or more college coaches getting to see them play. That is just how it is. Also, when a bunch of players miss showcases because they're playing HS, it hurts not only their recruiting opportunities, but also their teammates opportunities because the team and remaining players just aren't going to perform as well in front of a large audience of college coaches when they're missing a lot of kids. From a club's perspective it is pretty messed up when the club's objective for a team is to get them ALL recruited for college, but there are families that don't give a shit about anyone other than themselves.


The bigger question is why is HSS and ECNL in conflict at all?  Would it be so difficult for ECNL to schedule around the short HSS period so players can choose both if they want without missing out on the showcases?


----------



## Brav520

Genuine Question, because I've heard this talking point for years 

Is there actual evidence to support that HSS players are at greater risk for injury?


----------



## dk_b

BIGD said:


> The bigger question is why is HSS and ECNL in conflict at all?  Would it be so difficult for ECNL to schedule around the short HSS period so players can choose both if they want without missing out on the showcases?


Has something changed in the past few years?  ECNL always allowed clubs/regions to break for HS. That break is different depending on the state (about 5 or 6 for Winter HSS and then split about evenly among the other states between Fall and Spring)?  My daughter's club always participated in the Nov and April PHX showcases and then the PDA showcase over Memorial Day Weekend, breaking for HS between about Nov 20 or so and then when the HS season ends. The rate of HS participating among Northern California ECNL players was always really high and because CIF does not permit both, it was not b/c of ECNL but CIF that they shut down for that stretch.


----------



## dk_b

Brav520 said:


> Genuine Question, because I've heard this talking point for years
> 
> Is there actual evidence to support that HSS players are at greater risk for injury?


Such a great question.


----------



## GoldenGate

BIGD said:


> The bigger question is why is HSS and ECNL in conflict at all?  Would it be so difficult for ECNL to schedule around the short HSS period so players can choose both if they want without missing out on the showcases?


ECNL is not in conflict with HS generally.  Not all HS seasons line up nationally, often due to weather.  ECNL provides a lot of showcase options and league scheduling flexibility to work around different HS seasons, minimize the risk of weather problems at showcases, address other geographic challenges depending on where the club and league is located, and to account for the different priorities at different clubs. 

The "problem" is that not all ECNL clubs have the same goals and priorities, nor should they. One of Deza's main goals is to get kids recruited for college and HS tends to get in the way of it. Participating at a showcase in front of 50 college coaches per game is a big deal. When kids miss it because they're playing HS, it hurts their ability to get recruited, and it also hurts the ability of those who are there if the team is missing a lot of its regular players.  That is how it is.  Some ECNL clubs don't care so much.  Some do.   Some ECNL clubs can't afford to send teams all over the place all the time to get seen, while others can.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

GoldenGate said:


> I love this talk about Deza by people who have no idea what they're talking about.  For the record, Deza never kicked a kid off his club for playing HS although he has encouraged their exit for lack of commitment combined with lack of sufficient ability.  Even when US Soccer kicked his Quakes players out of GDA, he assured them he'd find a way to work around it, and he did.  In fact, his going rogue on US Soccer by supporting his HS players contributed greatly to the demise of GDA. Deza will absolutely support his players in college recruiting even if they play HS, just as he always has.  But it comes with caveats, because there are always consequences to decisions.  He will be candid with your kid about those consequences, but don't confuse honesty with "threats" just because you don't want to hear the truth.
> 
> Specifically, Deza will discourage HS because the fact of the matter is a kid will not get better quality training playing HS, they run higher injury risks, and it is harder for a kid to get recruited when they miss ECNL showcases because they are missing 50 or more college coaches getting to see them play. That is just how it is.  Also, when a bunch of players miss showcases because they're playing HS, it hurts not only their recruiting opportunities, but also their teammates opportunities because the team and remaining players just aren't going to perform as well in front of a large audience of college coaches when they're missing a lot of kids.  From a club's perspective it is pretty messed up when the club's objective for a team is to get them ALL recruited for college, but there are families that don't give a shit about anyone other than themselves.
> 
> Regardless, if your kid can really play, Deza isn't going to kick then out.  They run the risk of reduced playing time or being moved to a lower team because another kid may come along while your kid is gone or an existing one improves to the point that they pass your kid.  Playing time may suffer for a while because his job is to get kids recruited, and he's going to make a priority of those who show that getting recruited is a priority to them. Anyone who thinks being told these truths is a "threat" is just a typical stupid soccer parent who refuses to accept that there are consequences for decisions.  They also probably refuse to accept that their kid just isn't good enough to guarantee that they can miss three months of club without getting passed up.  If you want your kid to play HS and continue starting ECNL at Surf, they need to be really good.  If they aren't, they take their chances. That is how life works.
> 
> Oh, and Deza has never wanted a small roster in his life.  Maybe he can bring only 18 to a game, but claiming that he only wants 18 kids to train is just a lie.


Since my kid plays at Surf, I know your wrong.  But go ahead and keep defending him.  The stuff I know he has done since he has been there and the stuff I have heard from other parents is shocking.


----------



## GoldenGate

Brav520 said:


> Genuine Question, because I've heard this talking point for years
> 
> Is there actual evidence to support that HSS players are at greater risk for injury?


If you play for Deza, then yes.  He is not one to overwork kids physically or ride them hard trying to win games.

If your kid plays for another club coach, it depends, but the answer is still usually yes.  With HS, you are more likely to have bad refs who let games get out of control and dangerous. You are also more likely to have players who are willing to take a kid out than you get with club. You are also more likely to have a clueless HS coach who doesn't understand how to implement an appropriate and safe training regime, and who is more likely to ride your kid hard to win games. You also have OT is HS soccer.  When you have a stupid HS coach who rides his best players too hard trying to win games, it is borderline child abuse to make kids play that many minutes for no legitimate reason. But it depends primarily on who is coaching and what HS league you're talking about.

Here is the deal.  Take responsibility for your kid.  There is no single answer to whether to play HS or just club.  It depends on individual factors that are unique to your situation. If you are asking whether HS is more dangerous than club, you are asking the wrong question.  You need to be asking whether HS is more dangerous for your kid based on who is coaching, what league she is playing in, and the extent to which the higher risks that are generally associated with HS can be mitigated.  You also need to be answering that question yourself.  Anticipate your kid will get stuck in a 120 minute HS soccer game against a bunch of bruisers and figure out how you feel about that. If you're an idiot like crush, you probably want your kid playing a full 120 minute game without any regard to the health risk because winning stupid kiddie soccer games is critically important to him and any time his daughter spends on the bench he considers to be personally offensive.  But if you have a brain, you discuss playing time and substitutions with the coach in advance and, if his plan is to ride your kid hard so he can bask in the glory of winning a HS league, you have a real problem IMO if playing in college is more of a priority for you than HS glory.


----------



## Brav520

GoldenGate said:


> If you play for Deza, then yes.  He is not one to overwork kids physically or ride them hard trying to win games.
> 
> If your kid plays for another club coach, it depends, but the answer is still usually yes.  With HS, you are more likely to have bad refs who let games get out of control and dangerous. You are also more likely to have players who are willing to take a kid out than you get with club. You are also more likely to have a clueless HS coach who doesn't understand how to implement an appropriate and safe training regime, and who is more likely to ride your kid hard to win games. You also have OT is HS soccer.  When you have a stupid HS coach who rides his best players too hard trying to win games, it is borderline child abuse to make kids play that many minutes for no legitimate reason. But it depends primarily on who is coaching and what HS league you're talking about.
> 
> Here is the deal.  Take responsibility for your kid.  There is no single answer to whether to play HS or just club.  It depends on individual factors that are unique to your situation. If you are asking whether HS is more dangerous than club, you are asking the wrong question.  You need to be asking whether HS is more dangerous for your kid based on who is coaching, what league she is playing in, and the extent to which the higher risks that are generally associated with HS can be mitigated.  You also need to be answering that question yourself.  Anticipate your kid will get stuck in a 120 minute HS soccer game against a bunch of bruisers and figure out how you feel about that. If you're an idiot like crush, you probably want your kid playing a full 120 minute game without any regard to the health risk because winning stupid kiddie soccer games is critically important to him and any time his daughter spends on the bench he considers to be personally offensive.  But if you have a brain, you discuss playing time and substitutions with the coach in advance and, if his plan is to ride your kid hard so he can bask in the glory of winning a HS league, you have a real problem IMO if playing in college is more of a priority for you than HS glory.



ok, I see that. If we are saying the refs are the problem in letting these games get out of hand then that makes sense. 

Are colleges putting any restrictions on where the players play when they are in the offseason?. Do some of them want/require their girls running their camps in the summer time.


----------



## dk_b

GoldenGate said:


> If you play for Deza, then yes.  He is not one to overwork kids physically or ride them hard trying to win games.
> 
> If your kid plays for another club coach, it depends, but the answer is still usually yes.  With HS, you are more likely to have bad refs who let games get out of control and dangerous. You are also more likely to have players who are willing to take a kid out than you get with club. You are also more likely to have a clueless HS coach who doesn't understand how to implement an appropriate and safe training regime, and who is more likely to ride your kid hard to win games. You also have OT is HS soccer.  When you have a stupid HS coach who rides his best players too hard trying to win games, it is borderline child abuse to make kids play that many minutes for no legitimate reason. But it depends primarily on who is coaching and what HS league you're talking about.
> 
> Here is the deal.  Take responsibility for your kid.  There is no single answer to whether to play HS or just club.  It depends on individual factors that are unique to your situation. If you are asking whether HS is more dangerous than club, you are asking the wrong question.  You need to be asking whether HS is more dangerous for your kid based on who is coaching, what league she is playing in, and the extent to which the higher risks that are generally associated with HS can be mitigated.  You also need to be answering that question yourself.  Anticipate your kid will get stuck in a 120 minute HS soccer game against a bunch of bruisers and figure out how you feel about that. If you're an idiot like crush, you probably want your kid playing a full 120 minute game without any regard to the health risk because winning stupid kiddie soccer games is critically important to him and any time his daughter spends on the bench he considers to be personally offensive.  But if you have a brain, you discuss playing time and substitutions with the coach in advance and, if his plan is to ride your kid hard so he can bask in the glory of winning a HS league, you have a real problem IMO if playing in college is more of a priority for you than HS glory.


I'd really be interested in seeing data on this.  It may be true (though the only time I have seen OT is at the section level and HS OT is not the full 15 mins (nor is college)) but, anecdotally, I have seen far more injuries in club than in HS soccer and I have seen none that was because of recklessness of players or incompetence of refs (and my older kid is in a position in which she was (and is) giving up her body all the time).  My twins tore their ACLs w/in 8 weeks of each other last spring - one in club, one in HS, and neither b/c of any greater risk that those that are inherent to the sport.

I think the HS schedule of games is ludicrous and I do think there is heightened injury risk with that schedule. But, as we learn more, the schedule for many/most clubs also increases the risk of injury. 3 full 90 games in the 3 days of an ECNL showcase or 3 80 min games in 3 days of an event like the just-completed Thanksgiving Surf (or whatever it's called these days)? What level of soccer does that beyond American club soccer?

Back to my first point: we can think of a lot of reasons why HS might carry greater risk but w/o data, we are just speculating based on our own experiences. As for college recruiting/development - that's BS that a lot of clubs that hold sway over parents use to convince them that HS is bad. Countless players on college rosters played HS - in fact, other than the ones directly impacted by GDA, most played. That's throughout the power 5 conferences and elite mid-majors (like the WCC). Many if not most players in the national pool played or play HS (again, backing out the impact of GDA and that will be a blip as we get further from it). If a kid can't take 3 or 4 months to play with her friends and represent her school w/o suffering some significant diminishing of skills, it would mean that any injury requiring time away is catastrophic (that hand surgery my GK daughter had back in 8th grade should have ruined her since she missed something like 4 months). 

In the end, my older daughter's success has been influenced by her experience playing HS soccer.  It did not hurt her in terms of recruiting, in terms of NT opportunities, in terms of success in her club days or at the collegiate level. It WAS a time when she played in a different atmosphere - a bit lighter - when she was part of a broader community, when she reconnected with people a different relationship with the game, where she got to socialize/party with the boys' team b/c our HS has a real "soccer family" (which helped all of them endure the death of classmates from w/in that community), etc.


----------



## GoldenGate

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Since my kid plays at Surf, I know your wrong.  But go ahead and keep defending him.  The stuff I know he has done since he has been there and the stuff I have heard from other parents is shocking.


Your opinion is common among douchy helicopter parents who can't accept reality or see the big picture. He does not have time for them or their petulant children and does not need their money. There are plenty of folks with money and with kids who can play that gladly stay out of the way while he helps turn into players that get into Stanford and UCLA.


----------



## BIGD

GoldenGate said:


> ECNL is not in conflict with HS generally.  Not all HS seasons line up nationally, often due to weather.  ECNL provides a lot of showcase options and league scheduling flexibility to work around different HS seasons, minimize the risk of weather problems at showcases, address other geographic challenges depending on where the club and league is located, and to account for the different priorities at different clubs.
> 
> The "problem" is that not all ECNL clubs have the same goals and priorities, nor should they. One of Deza's main goals is to get kids recruited for college and HS tends to get in the way of it. Participating at a showcase in front of 50 college coaches per game is a big deal. When kids miss it because they're playing HS, it hurts their ability to get recruited, and it also hurts the ability of those who are there if the team is missing a lot of its regular players.  That is how it is.  Some ECNL clubs don't care so much.  Some do.   Some ECNL clubs can't afford to send teams all over the place all the time to get seen, while others can.


I still don't understand how HS gets in the way of recruiting kids for college?  What showcase is scheduled during HSS that has 50 college coaches? Is it just this one showcase they are missing?


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

GoldenGate said:


> Your opinion is common among douchy helicopter parents who can't accept reality or see the big picture. He does not have time for them or their petulant children and does not need their money. There are plenty of folks with money and with kids who can play that gladly stay out of the way while he helps turn into players that get into Stanford and UCLA.


It is funny because I am anything but a helicopter parent.  You continue to prove you are an asshole.


----------



## Brav520

dk_b said:


> I'd really be interested in seeing data on this.  It may be true (though the only time I have seen OT is at the section level and HS OT is not the full 15 mins (nor is college)) but, anecdotally, I have seen far more injuries in club than in HS soccer and I have seen none that was because of recklessness of players or incompetence of refs (and my older kid is in a position in which she was (and is) giving up her body all the time).  My twins tore their ACLs w/in 8 weeks of each other last spring - one in club, one in HS, and neither b/c of any greater risk that those that are inherent to the sport.
> 
> I think the HS schedule of games is ludicrous and I do think there is heightened injury risk with that schedule. But, as we learn more, the schedule for many/most clubs also increases the risk of injury. 3 full 90 games in the 3 days of an ECNL showcase or 3 80 min games in 3 days of an event like the just-completed Thanksgiving Surf (or whatever it's called these days)? What level of soccer does that beyond American club soccer?
> 
> Back to my first point: we can think of a lot of reasons why HS might carry greater risk but w/o data, we are just speculating based on our own experiences. As for college recruiting/development - that's BS that a lot of clubs that hold sway over parents use to convince them that HS is bad. Countless players on college rosters played HS - in fact, other than the ones directly impacted by GDA, most played. That's throughout the power 5 conferences and elite mid-majors (like the WCC). Many if not most players in the national pool played or play HS (again, backing out the impact of GDA and that will be a blip as we get further from it). If a kid can't take 3 or 4 months to play with her friends and represent her school w/o suffering some significant diminishing of skills, it would mean that any injury requiring time away is catastrophic (that hand surgery my GK daughter had back in 8th grade should have ruined her since she missed something like 4 months).
> 
> In the end, my older daughter's success has been influenced by her experience playing HS soccer.  It did not hurt her in terms of recruiting, in terms of NT opportunities, in terms of success in her club days or at the collegiate level. It WAS a time when she played in a different atmosphere - a bit lighter - when she was part of a broader community, when she reconnected with people a different relationship with the game, where she got to socialize/party with the boys' team b/c our HS has a real "soccer family" (which helped all of them endure the death of classmates from w/in that community), etc.


common characteristic among high level coaches in any sport is to be a control freak , it’s probably beneficial in most circumstances

seems to me what the DOCs really hate is losing control over their players for a couple of months , then spending the first month when they have them back on having to bring them up to speed


----------



## crush




----------



## dk_b

Brav520 said:


> common characteristic among high level coaches in any sport is to be a control freak , it’s probably beneficial in most circumstances
> 
> seems to me what the DOCs really hate is losing control over their players for a couple of months , then spending the first month when they have them back on having to bring them up to speed


I think you are right but I also think this is their perception rather than reality.  A good player can take a few months off to play street soccer (or basketball or swim or play video games) and come back and, other than conditioning (which, if they are not playing video games, is probably fine) and they are the same player.  If a player regresses so mightily in the high school season, I'd suggest that the player was not very good or the coaching that she received IN CLUB SOCCER was not very good. The vast vast majority (I never like to say "all") of players return pretty much the same as they left and many of them return refreshed.


----------



## BIGD

dk_b said:


> I think you are right but I also think this is their perception rather than reality.  A good player can take a few months off to play street soccer (or basketball or swim or play video games) and come back and, other than conditioning (which, if they are not playing video games, is probably fine) and they are the same player.  If a player regresses so mightily in the high school season, I'd suggest that the player was not very good or the coaching that she received IN CLUB SOCCER was not very good. The vast vast majority (I never like to say "all") of players return pretty much the same as they left and many of them return refreshed.


Yep, you can leave a sport and get back in pretty quickly, but they don't want you to believe that because it lowers their value and business proposition.   They want you to believe that year round specialization is the only way, or you will be left behind.   It's really about the DOC's losing control and $$ and keeping up the pressure and fear that their business model is based on.


----------



## dad4

Brav520 said:


> Genuine Question, because I've heard this talking point for years
> 
> Is there actual evidence to support that HSS players are at greater risk for injury?


How would anyone get evidence?  Is there any club which publishes their injury history?  

To get real data, you’d need ECNL and schools to publish annual statistics on a league wide basis.


----------



## crush

dk_b said:


> I think you are right but I also think this is their perception rather than reality.  A good player can take a few months off to play street soccer (or basketball or swim or play video games) and come back and, other than conditioning (which, if they are not playing video games, is probably fine) and they are the same player.  If a player regresses so mightily in the high school season, I'd suggest that the player was not very good or the coaching that she received IN CLUB SOCCER was not very good. The vast vast majority (I never like to say "all") of players return pretty much the same as they left and many of them return refreshed.


Doc(s) are not happy with HSS, especially if Doc is from another country.  My dd learned the hard way but the right way.


----------



## dk_b

BIGD said:


> Yep, you can leave a sport and get back in pretty quickly, but they don't want you to believe that because it lowers their value and business proposition.   They want you to believe that year round specialization is the only way, or you will be left behind.   It's really about the DOC's losing control and $$ and keeping up the pressure and fear that their business model is based on.


I feel very fortunate that my kid played at a club where it was accepted that players played HS. It has never had a negative impact on the teams. Because a former GDA club is closer to us, if GDA had allowed HS, I expect that she would have moved closer to limit her commute burden but it was never a serious consideration for her b/c she would not have wanted to give up HS.


----------



## GoldenGate

dk_b said:


> I'd really be interested in seeing data on this.  It may be true (though the only time I have seen OT is at the section level and HS OT is not the full 15 mins (nor is college)) but, anecdotally, I have seen far more injuries in club than in HS soccer and I have seen none that was because of recklessness of players or incompetence of refs (and my older kid is in a position in which she was (and is) giving up her body all the time).  My twins tore their ACLs w/in 8 weeks of each other last spring - one in club, one in HS, and neither b/c of any greater risk that those that are inherent to the sport.
> 
> I think the HS schedule of games is ludicrous and I do think there is heightened injury risk with that schedule. But, as we learn more, the schedule for many/most clubs also increases the risk of injury. 3 full 90 games in the 3 days of an ECNL showcase or 3 80 min games in 3 days of an event like the just-completed Thanksgiving Surf (or whatever it's called these days)? What level of soccer does that beyond American club soccer?
> 
> Back to my first point: we can think of a lot of reasons why HS might carry greater risk but w/o data, we are just speculating based on our own experiences. As for college recruiting/development - that's BS that a lot of clubs that hold sway over parents use to convince them that HS is bad. Countless players on college rosters played HS - in fact, other than the ones directly impacted by GDA, most played. That's throughout the power 5 conferences and elite mid-majors (like the WCC). Many if not most players in the national pool played or play HS (again, backing out the impact of GDA and that will be a blip as we get further from it). If a kid can't take 3 or 4 months to play with her friends and represent her school w/o suffering some significant diminishing of skills, it would mean that any injury requiring time away is catastrophic (that hand surgery my GK daughter had back in 8th grade should have ruined her since she missed something like 4 months).
> 
> In the end, my older daughter's success has been influenced by her experience playing HS soccer.  It did not hurt her in terms of recruiting, in terms of NT opportunities, in terms of success in her club days or at the collegiate level. It WAS a time when she played in a different atmosphere - a bit lighter - when she was part of a broader community, when she reconnected with people a different relationship with the game, where she got to socialize/party with the boys' team b/c our HS has a real "soccer family" (which helped all of them endure the death of classmates from w/in that community), etc.


Yes, it's a problem if your kid plays 3 full 90 minute ECNL games in three days, but it's the parents fault because they let it happen, just as they're a shitty parent to let their kid play full HS games plus OT.  Speaking generally, however, a kid is much more likely to have a shitty HS coach who doesn't understand or care about how to mitigate injury risks than an ECNL coach.  But, again, that is not always the case and depends on your situation. Deza for sure will not ride your kid too hard physically.

Whether HS is the best decision always depends on the situation, and anyone who claims they know what is best for everyone is just an idiot.  My kid played HS soccer and loved it. Many of her teammates didn't, and are glad.  Mine was lucky because her HS coach was a good guy who understood health was more important than winning, we were on the same page and it all worked out. If he had tried to ride her hard to win games, however, it would have been different.  She also essentially committed as a HS freshman, so she didn't have to worry about missing recruiting opportunities playing HS, getting booted from her club team, or getting hurt badly and not being able to leverage her soccer ability into college opportunity.  She had all the power, and we used it to flip US Soccer the bird with its GDA HS ban. But with today's NCAA recruiting rules prohibiting contact and visits until much later, there is more pressure on kids to skip HS, which gives clubs more leverage and parents less. If my kid had been a marginal D1 prospect instead of an elite one under today's recruiting rules, missing out on high level training and ECNL showcases in front of college scouts would have been a bigger deal and she probably would have skipped HS just to be safe. As an aside, it's funny seeing idiots like crush proclaim their love for the NCAA rule change not realizing that it only took power out of his hands and gave it to the club coaches and DOCs he hates so much.

It is also important to understand that, when Deza discourages HS, he's only trying to help your child, although the idiotic parents here fail to comprehend this.  Maybe it isn't what is best for one's kid in the end, but he isn't trying to be malicious or a "control freak", it's not a "power grab" or "money grab", and he isn't  "threatening" you.  He is trying to get your kid and all of her teammates the most and best exposure to colleges and the best training which, in turn, provides these kids with the best possible college opportunities. Those who are upset at clubs for discouraging HS will never admit it to even themselves, but they're really just upset their daughter's teammates are going to get recruited while they're gone and they don't want it to happen without them.  If their kid isn't going to take advantage of getting recruited for three months, they don't want anyone else to be able to do so either even if they want to.  It's a pretty fucked up to not want what is best for your kid's teammates and the parents you sit next to 9 months a year, but that's what is really going on. But the truth is colleges are going to continue recruiting even while their kid plays HS, ECNL is going to continue holding showcases to facilitate recruiting, and a lot of kids and clubs like Surf are going to take advantage of it, as they should. If you don't want that golden recruiting opportunity, ok, but that's the price you pay.  Just accept reality and wish your kid's teammates the best, even if it means they get that final offer from Stanford or USC while your kid was away.


----------



## dk_b

GoldenGate said:


> Yes, it's a problem if your kid plays 3 full 90 minute ECNL games in three days, but it's the parents fault because they let it happen, just as they're a shitty parent to let their kid play full HS games plus OT.  Speaking generally, however, a kid is much more likely to have a shitty HS coach who doesn't understand or care about how to mitigate injury risks than an ECNL coach.  But, again, that is not always the case and depends on your situation. Deza for sure will not ride your kid too hard physically.
> 
> Whether HS is the best decision always depends on the situation, and anyone who claims they know what is best for everyone is just an idiot.  My kid played HS soccer and loved it. Many of her teammates didn't, and are glad.  Mine was lucky because her HS coach was a good guy who understood health was more important than winning, we were on the same page and it all worked out. If he had tried to ride her hard to win games, however, it would have been different.  She also essentially committed as a HS freshman, so she didn't have to worry about missing recruiting opportunities playing HS, getting booted from her club team, or getting hurt badly and not being able to leverage her soccer ability into college opportunity.  She had all the power, and we used it to flip US Soccer the bird with its GDA HS ban. But with today's NCAA recruiting rules prohibiting contact and visits until much later, there is more pressure on kids to skip HS, which gives clubs more leverage and parents less. If my kid had been a marginal D1 prospect instead of an elite one under today's recruiting rules, missing out on high level training and ECNL showcases in front of college scouts would have been a bigger deal and she probably would have skipped HS just to be safe. As an aside, it's funny seeing idiots like crush proclaim their love for the NCAA rule change not realizing that it only took power out of his hands and gave it to the club coaches and DOCs he hates so much.
> 
> It is also important to understand that, when Deza discourages HS, he's only trying to help your child, although the idiotic parents here fail to comprehend this.  Maybe it isn't what is best for one's kid in the end, but he isn't trying to be malicious or a "control freak", it's not a "power grab" or "money grab", and he isn't  "threatening" you.  He is trying to get your kid and all of her teammates the most and best exposure to colleges and the best training which, in turn, provides these kids with the best possible college opportunities. Those who are upset at clubs for discouraging HS will never admit it to even themselves, but they're really just upset their daughter's teammates are going to get recruited while they're gone and they don't want it to happen without them.  If their kid isn't going to take advantage of getting recruited for three months, they don't want anyone else to be able to do so either even if they want to.  It's a pretty fucked up to not want what is best for your kid's teammates and the parents you sit next to 9 months a year, but that's what is really going on. But the truth is colleges are going to continue recruiting even while their kid plays HS, ECNL is going to continue holding showcases to facilitate recruiting, and a lot of kids and clubs like Surf are going to take advantage of it, as they should. If you don't want that golden recruiting opportunity, ok, but that's the price you pay.  Just accept reality and wish your kid's teammates the best, even if it means they get that final offer from Stanford or USC while your kid was away.


You will notice that my comments are about HS, generally, and not about Andres. I know him from his time up here and my daughter had the good fortune to participate in trainings with him (in the pre-GDA days). There are few coaches as committed to teaching soccer than he is - how many say "results don't matter" at the early ages when they are really about winning? Having watched my daughter play against his teams, he really did not care about results but taught excellent soccer (that even includes when DeAnza was ECNL and he was coaching 01/02s when they first moved into the ECNL level (obviously pre-age split)).

I am a fan of the current recruiting rule over the one that allowed my kid to commit as early as she did. I think her school remains the right one as she has finished her 2d season but I still think she was too young to commit when she did (she agrees with me, FWIW). We also felt, at the time and b/c of her position, she "needed" to commit early (that's a longer discussion that I would not share here).  The ECNL showcase schedule accommodates the HS season and I have seen HS player after HS player commit to top programs.  They have plenty of coaches watching them in the fall and spring and then at playoffs.  The ones who don't get offers are not missing out b/c of HS but b/c they did not shine when the lights were brightest or were not as good as others thought them to be or just had the wrong flow of a game when their desired coaches were watching.  If they are good enough for Stanford or USC or any of the biggies, they will be seen even if their team is not at X or Y showcase in the winter (of course ECNL is going to hold showcases during the winter b/c only 6 or so states play HS then; if they are in a state where HS is big and played in another season, they are not playing in the Fall or the Winter showcases; it all balances out).

Some public health student will do some research on comparative injury rates among HS and club players - they won't rely on clubs or high schools for that data but will go to the doctors or the patients themselves. And we will learn if HS is the bogeyman so many think it to be or just as risky or less risky than club.


----------



## GoldenGate

BIGD said:


> I still don't understand how HS gets in the way of recruiting kids for college?  What showcase is scheduled during HSS that has 50 college coaches? Is it just this one showcase they are missing?


Again, HS is different for different regions, but ECNL showcases occur throughout the year.  There will almost always be an ECNL showcase that is during a particular region's HS season.  It is not uncommon for ECNL showcases to have games with more than 50 colleges in attendance and mine played in many.


----------



## GoldenGate

dk_b said:


> You will notice that my comments are about HS, generally, and not about Andres. I know him from his time up here and my daughter had the good fortune to participate in trainings with him (in the pre-GDA days). There are few coaches as committed to teaching soccer than he is - how many say "results don't matter" at the early ages when they are really about winning? Having watched my daughter play against his teams, he really did not care about results but taught excellent soccer (that even includes when DeAnza was ECNL and he was coaching 01/02s when they first moved into the ECNL level (obviously pre-age split)).
> 
> I am a fan of the current recruiting rule over the one that allowed my kid to commit as early as she did. I think her school remains the right one as she has finished her 2d season but I still think she was too young to commit when she did (she agrees with me, FWIW). We also felt, at the time and b/c of her position, she "needed" to commit early (that's a longer discussion that I would not share here).  The ECNL showcase schedule accommodates the HS season and I have seen HS player after HS player commit to top programs.  They have plenty of coaches watching them in the fall and spring and then at playoffs.  The ones who don't get offers are not missing out b/c of HS but b/c they did not shine when the lights were brightest or were not as good as others thought them to be or just had the wrong flow of a game when their desired coaches were watching.  If they are good enough for Stanford or USC or any of the biggies, they will be seen even if their team is not at X or Y showcase in the winter (of course ECNL is going to hold showcases during the winter b/c only 6 or so states play HS then; if they are in a state where HS is big and played in another season, they are not playing in the Fall or the Winter showcases; it all balances out).
> 
> Some public health student will do some research on comparative injury rates among HS and club players - they won't rely on clubs or high schools for that data but will go to the doctors or the patients themselves. And we will learn if HS is the bogeyman so many think it to be or just as risky or less risky than club.


In a perfect world, you are right, but it is not a perfect world.  My kid did not play HS as a freshman because she was pretty small still, and ended up being asked to play up as filler at an ECNL showcase to help the sophomores get recruited and because a couple kids had played HS instead.  She went from filler to being recruited by 20 schools in less than a week, while one of the kids who played HS ended up getting hurt later, missed the next showcase, and that was pretty much that.  Another landed on the bench because my kid took her spot while she was gone. They both ended up at different clubs and at colleges their parents believed were beneath them.  They didn't play in front of college coaches until well into their junior and senior years and by then most of the top colleges were done making offers to anyone other than purple unicorns.

You never know when or how your kid will get found.  But if you're going to ECNL events playing under Deza, your kid is pretty much maximizing their recruiting potential. And if they don't, they run a real risk that that they go to Pepperdine or SDSU when it could have been UCLA or USC.  Or maybe they still get an offer at UCLA or USC, but it's as a recruited walk on because they already committed all their money to kids they offered from the ECNL showcase they missed.


----------



## GoldenGate

crush said:


> Doc(s) are not happy with HSS, especially if Doc is from another country.  My dd learned the hard way but the right way.


The real problem is that you have not learned anything. You have done nothing but piss off everyone around you who tried to help you and your kid, including by repeatedly blaming them for your own horrible decisions.  

Love the xenophobia btw.


----------



## Carlsbad7

GoldenGate said:


> In a perfect world, you are right, but it is not a perfect world.  My kid did not play HS as a freshman because she was pretty small still, and ended up being asked to play up as filler at an ECNL showcase to help the sophomores get recruited and because a couple kids had played HS instead.  She went from filler to being recruited by 20 schools in less than a week, while one of the kids who played HS ended up getting hurt later, missed the next showcase, and that was pretty much that.  Another landed on the bench because my kid took her spot while she was gone. They both ended up at different clubs and at colleges their parents believed were beneath them.  They didn't play in front of college coaches until well into their junior and senior years and by then most of the top colleges were done making offers to anyone other than purple unicorns.
> 
> You never know when or how your kid will get found.  But if you're going to ECNL events playing under Deza, your kid is pretty much maximizing their recruiting potential. And if they don't, they run a real risk that that they go to Pepperdine or SDSU when it could have been UCLA or USC.  Or maybe they still get an offer at UCLA or USC, but it's as a recruited walk on because they already committed all their money to kids they offered from the ECNL showcase they missed.


So you're saying that if a a player isn't in Showcases by Freshman/Sophomore year in HS that College coaches won't notice your kid. I find this hard to believe. Sure this is the age when coaches are looking but they'll be combing through ECNL rosters making notes on all players. If they see a name that's not playing from a top club they'll make an effort to figure out what's going on.


----------



## GT45

GoldenGate said:


> Your opinion is common among douchy helicopter parents who can't accept reality or see the big picture. He does not have time for them or their petulant children and does not need their money. There are plenty of folks with money and with kids who can play that gladly stay out of the way while he helps turn into players that get into Stanford and UCLA.


Geez are you his PR manager? I have no dog in the fight and do not know a thing about the guy. But, your posts are a little try too hard here. Take a breath. You are so far up his a*s, that it is hard to take your posts credibly.


----------



## dk_b

GoldenGate said:


> In a perfect world, you are right, but it is not a perfect world.  My kid did not play HS as a freshman because she was pretty small still, and ended up being asked to play up as filler at an ECNL showcase to help the sophomores get recruited and because a couple kids had played HS instead.  She went from filler to being recruited by 20 schools in less than a week, while one of the kids who played HS ended up getting hurt later, missed the next showcase, and that was pretty much that.  Another landed on the bench because my kid took her spot while she was gone. They both ended up at different clubs and at colleges their parents believed were beneath them.  They didn't play in front of college coaches until well into their junior and senior years and by then most of the top colleges were done making offers to anyone other than purple unicorns.
> 
> You never know when or how your kid will get found.  But if you're going to ECNL events playing under Deza, your kid is pretty much maximizing their recruiting potential. And if they don't, they run a real risk that that they go to Pepperdine or SDSU when it could have been UCLA or USC.  Or maybe they still get an offer at UCLA or USC, but it's as a recruited walk on because they already committed all their money to kids they offered from the ECNL showcase they missed.


Yes, if injuries ONLY happen in HS and if the ONLY critical showcases for UCLA and USC are held in the winter, you are right.  But we know that you are fitting a narrative that works for you and that there are a number of kids playing (and soon to be playing) at UCLA, USC, FSU, UNC, Stanford, etc. who played HS and a number of kids rehabbing or post-rehab who were injured in club games. And because we operate in the real world and not a vacuum, we just can't know which kids missed that once-in-a-lifetime shot at UCLA or USC and had to "settle" for Pepperdine or SDSU because they missed that winter showcase or that kid who was injured in HS who definitely would not have been injured in a club game.


----------



## GT45

GoldenGate said:


> As an aside, it's funny seeing idiots like crush proclaim their love for the NCAA rule change not realizing that it only took power out of his hands and gave it to the club coaches and DOCs he hates so much.


This is 100% wrong. In fact, college coaches said just the opposite. The recruiting rule change took the power out of the club coaches hands. They used to have to go through the club coach when they wanted to talk to a player. The club coach would then tell the player to call the college coach (college coaches were at the mercy of the club coach to pass along the message). This allowed them to start the recruiting process. But, with the new recruiting rules, they cannot talk to the player before June 15 after sophomore year PERIOD. So no need to go through club coaches anymore.


----------



## GoldenGate

Carlsbad7 said:


> So you're saying that if a a player isn't in Showcases by Freshman/Sophomore year in HS that College coaches won't notice your kid. I find this hard to believe. Sure this is the age when coaches are looking but they'll be combing through ECNL rosters making notes on all players. If they see a name that's not playing from a top club they'll make an effort to figure out what's going on.


No I am not saying that.  I am saying you don't know how or when you will get found, but playing HS when you could be playing in front of 50+ college coaches is not doing yourself any favors if your priority is to get recruited. You are taking chances that your kid will end up at a lesser school than where they belong.  

The idea that college coaches are "combing through ECNL rosters making notes on all players" is a fantasy. At most major programs, they're pretty much fielding calls from the club coaches they know, watching their recommendations a few times usually at showcases or if they happen to be playing in town, and then making offers. The youth soccer world is littered with kiddos who ended up at lesser schools because their parents are idiots.


----------



## crush

GoldenGate said:


> The real problem is that you have not learned anything. You have done nothing but piss off everyone around you who tried to help you and your kid, including by repeatedly blaming them for your own horrible decisions.
> 
> Love the xenophobia btw.


I saw the helping "free" hand(s)outs and what it took to play and pay the man with the hand outs and no way I could stoop so low and sell my soul dude.  I saw how this game was being played in the back room and frankly, I thought it was all a joke until I pissed everyone off who had their hand out trying to help me to STFU.  I poked a fucking Grizzly Bear and had no idea how big this bear was at the time or maybe I would have listen to the real problem, me and my mouth.  My goal is to help Build Back a Better soccer for the future girl players.  Deza is the real deal and my dd scored two goals on his #1 team, like a couple years ago I think.  He's the best defensive minded coach of all time as well and she got two that day in front of him and all the others that day.  It was epic!  They((The scouts)) were not happy with HSS and her decision to say, "Adios GDA."  I will hold so close the memories of my dd winning the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP in 2017 and then standing up for what she wanted and not what the Doc(s) said about this and that.


----------



## GT45

GoldenGate said:


> In a perfect world, you are right, but it is not a perfect world.  My kid did not play HS as a freshman because she was pretty small still, and ended up being asked to play up as filler at an ECNL showcase to help the sophomores get recruited and because a couple kids had played HS instead.  She went from filler to being recruited by 20 schools in less than a week, while one of the kids who played HS ended up getting hurt later, missed the next showcase, and that was pretty much that.  Another landed on the bench because my kid took her spot while she was gone. They both ended up at different clubs and at colleges their parents believed were beneath them.  They didn't play in front of college coaches until well into their junior and senior years and by then most of the top colleges were done making offers to anyone other than purple unicorns.
> 
> You never know when or how your kid will get found.  But if you're going to ECNL events playing under Deza, your kid is pretty much maximizing their recruiting potential. And if they don't, they run a real risk that that they go to Pepperdine or SDSU when it could have been UCLA or USC.  Or maybe they still get an offer at UCLA or USC, but it's as a recruited walk on because they already committed all their money to kids they offered from the ECNL showcase they missed.


Oh the arrogance you possess. Last I saw, Pepperdine had a better season than both USC and UCLA. And, last I checked the West Coast Conference has two teams in the College Cup final four.  Yet, you consider Pepperdine a step down. Keep digging a hole, dude. Your credibility is literally shot.


----------



## crush

GoldenGate said:


> No I am not saying that.  I am saying you don't know how or when you will get found, but playing HS when you could be playing in front of 50+ college coaches is not doing yourself any favors if your priority is to get recruited. You are taking chances that your kid will end up at a lesser school than where they belong.
> 
> The idea that college coaches are "combing through ECNL rosters making notes on all players" is a fantasy. At most major programs, they're pretty much fielding calls from the club coaches they know, watching their recommendations a few times usually at showcases or if they happen to be playing in town, and then making offers. The youth soccer world is littered with kiddos who ended up at lesser schools because their parents are idiots.


I can say this is 100% true.  If you want pay to play at the next level, STFU!


----------



## crush

GT45 said:


> Oh the arrogance you possess. Last I saw, Pepperdine had a better season than both USC and UCLA. And, last I checked the West Coast Conference has two teams in the College Cup final four.  Yet, you consider Pepperdine a step down. Keep digging a hole, dude. Your credibility is literally shot.


Big U or bust with this guy.  Maps taught me the truth about what it took to make the grade at Big U.  I'm stoked for the Mid Majors.  My dd old teammates are all getting minutes and making an impact.  I think college soccer should be *a path*, *not the path* after HSS and club.  Thoughts?


----------



## GoldenGate

GT45 said:


> This is 100% wrong. In fact, college coaches said just the opposite. The recruiting rule change took the power out of the club coaches hands. They used to have to go through the club coach when they wanted to talk to a player. The club coach would then tell the player to call the college coach (college coaches were at the mercy of the club coach to pass along the message). This allowed them to start the recruiting process. But, with the new recruiting rules, they cannot talk to the player before June 15 after sophomore year PERIOD. So no need to go through club coaches anymore.


Sure.  Currently the only way for a college coach and a player to have any "contact" until late sophomore year is through their club coach, while in the past it helped to get an introduction from the club coach but after that you could have all the contact and make all the visits you wanted. Now, however, the only way for a family to get a decent idea about a program and a coach's demeanor is by relying on what your club coach tells you because you can't even visit until junior year, so now offers are being made and accepted before a kid can even visit a coach on campus. But colleges love the new rule for a couple reasons.  First, the don't have to live up to verbal offers made early when the kid gets hurt or doesn't progress.  Second, they don't need to waste any more time schmoozing annoying people during informal visits.  

Also, if you think college coaches are sitting around twiddling their thumbs to start the recruiting process on June 15 of sophomore year, you are an idiot.  Decisions are still essentially being made before then, only they are being made through club coaches without any personal interaction between families and colleges. Club coaches have all the power now due to the compressed recruiting time period.


----------



## crush

GoldenGate said:


> Sure.  Currently the only way for a college coach and a player to have any "contact" until late sophomore year is through their club coach, while in the past it helped to get an introduction from the club coach but after that you could have all the contact and make all the visits you wanted. Now, however, the only way for a family to get a decent idea about a program and a coach's demeanor is by relying on what your club coach tells you because you can't even visit until junior year, so now offers are being made and accepted before a kid can even visit a coach on campus. But colleges love the new rule for a couple reasons.  First, the don't have to live up to verbal offers made early when the kid gets hurt or doesn't progress.  Second, they don't need to waste any more time schmoozing annoying people during informal visits.
> 
> Also, if you think college coaches are sitting around twiddling their thumbs to start the recruiting process on June 15 of sophomore year, you are an idiot.  Decisions are still essentially being made before then, only they are being made through club coaches without any personal interaction between families and colleges. Club coaches have all the power now due to the compressed recruiting time period.


You sure are a trip.  Right sometimes and wrong so much of the time.  I like this post though.  Word gets out by 7th or 8th grade  about the next best goats in SoCal.  Remember, were not talking just soccer skills to make it the next level.  You need $$$$, 4.0++ excellent and worthy of greatness SAT scores+ volunteer your free time helping the homeless and those in need and parents who STFU and pay to play.  If you piss off the wrong connections, blacklisted is sure to come your way.


----------



## GoldenGate

GT45 said:


> Oh the arrogance you possess. Last I saw, Pepperdine had a better season than both USC and UCLA. And, last I checked the West Coast Conference has two teams in the College Cup final four.  Yet, you consider Pepperdine a step down. Keep digging a hole, dude. Your credibility is literally shot.


Oh FFS.  USC and UCLA both constitute more desirable destinations for an elite soccer player.  If USC, UCLA and Pepperdine make 100 offers that are financially similar, 99 out of 100 choose USC or UCLA, and maybe one goes with Pepperdine.  That is not a slight against Pepperdine.  It is because USC and UCLA have better soccer programs regardless of the fact that Pepperdine had one good season, they are better academic institutions, and they provide better opportunities for pretty much everything that doesn't involve a career in god.  But if your kid is going to pick a college because chasing national championships is important to her, by all means go with Pepperdine over UCLA and USC.  Makes a lot of sense.


----------



## crush

GoldenGate said:


> Oh FFS.  USC and UCLA both constitute more desirable destinations for an elite soccer player.  If USC, UCLA and Pepperdine make 100 offers that are financially similar, 99 out of 100 choose USC or UCLA, and maybe one goes with Pepperdine.  That is not a slight against Pepperdine.  It is because USC and UCLA have better soccer programs regardless of the fact that Pepperdine had one good season, they are better academic institutions, and they provide better opportunities for pretty much everything that doesn't involve a career in god.  But if your kid is going to pick a college because chasing national championships is important to her, by all means go with Pepperdine over UCLA and USC.  Makes a lot of sense.


I love Pepperdine and that awesome campus.  I think more then 1% would pick Pepperdine.  Maybe 1 is a joke of a guess?  Have you been on that campus?  Amazing amazing and the location is amazing and the kids that go to school there are amazing.  My best pal teaches two classes.


----------



## GoldenGate

GT45 said:


> Geez are you his PR manager? I have no dog in the fight and do not know a thing about the guy. But, your posts are a little try too hard here. Take a breath. You are so far up his a*s, that it is hard to take your posts credibly.


I love how people here get so upset when someone gets in the way of their bs gossipy conspiracy theories. Gosh, maybe now is a good time to add Deza to that conspiracy involving Amanda Cromwell, the LA Times, the federal Department of Justice and the Annenberg family?


----------



## Brav520

crush said:


> Big U or bust with this guy.  Maps taught me the truth about what it took to make the grade at Big U.  I'm stoked for the Mid Majors.  My dd old teammates are all getting minutes and making an impact.  I think college soccer should be *a path*, *not the path* after HSS and club.  Thoughts?


its possible College Soccer for woman could become what it has become for men, professional soccer for woman is just not really a viable career path for the vast vast majority right now, though Id argue it isn't really that viable of a career path for the vast majority of men .  

a family member of mine went around and played in some low tier Europe leagues for essentially room and board with host families after high school. Many of us thought he should move on with his life, but he was young and he loved the sport.


----------



## Brav520

crush said:


> I love Pepperdine and that awesome campus.  I think more then 1% would pick Pepperdine.  Maybe 1 is a joke of a guess.  Have you been on that campus?  Amazing amazing and the location is amazing and the kids that go to school there are amazing.  My best pal teaches two classes.


Does Pepperdine hand out free rides for woman's soccer. Thats a very expensive college choice if not


----------



## crush

Brav520 said:


> its possible College Soccer for woman could become what it has become for men, professional soccer for woman is just not really a viable career path for the vast vast majority right now, though Id argue it isn't really that viable of a career path for the vast majority of men .
> 
> a family member of mine went around and played in some low tier Europe leagues for essentially room and board with host families after high school. Many of us thought he should move on with his life, but he was young and he loved the sport.


Youth only comes once bro and wtf make it so hard for the youth who like to play soccer.  It really is insane and sad if you want to play soccer for fun and try and win and play with the best during HS years and teenage life.  Were doing school and soccer all wrong in the States and I hope everyone is seeing what I see now.  Take Math for example.  Horrible subject for most kids.  It makes kids feel dumb and no need to do that.  Take soccer.  My kid could be a 4.8 soccer player but 2.0 math player.  Then they make you take SAT ((some cheat and have others take the test for them)) to see if your smart enough to pay to play soccer.  I'm just saying it would be cool if you could just have a very high level soccer league for the best of the best and then take some classes at night.


----------



## crush

Brav520 said:


> Does Pepperdine hand out free rides for woman's soccer. Thats a very expensive college choice if not


If you got excellent grades, a great attitude, treat others with respect and can play soccer, I think a few can get the ride with the grades and soccer.  I dont think their giving out free rides for just soccer and low GPA.  You have to have the complete package.  Great school to play soccer and get a degree.  They got some great players coming in next year.  I think they can win it all, moo


----------



## Brav520

crush said:


> If you got excellent grades, a great attitude, treat others with respect and can play soccer, I think a few can get the ride with the grades and soccer.  I dont think their giving out free rides for just soccer and low GPA.  You have to have the complete package.  Great school to play soccer and get a degree.  They got some great players coming in next year.  I think they can win it all, moo


well maybe some things have changed over the years, but I did hear a story about Jill Ellis telling a high level player who had a decent GPA ( below the student average )but not the SAT ( wasn't really close to average, like 200-300 below) that they can get this player tutors

Is there some leeway given to the cream of the crop still?

This was back when Anson had a monopoly on the sport , and wouldn't recognize your player unless they were a national team player


----------



## youthsportsugghhh

NorCal folks fall into 2 camps with Deza -- Love him or don't -- not many fall in between. We had 2 interactions with him, one with PDP and one with DA. In neither case did my kid feel like she wanted to play for him. Obviously he and his coaches did some great things for some players. He has definitely burned bridges with how he operates. I have known players that he has had that did play HS or other sports outside of soccer to a point, I also know others that didn't want to possibly lose out by not training with others coming in. I agree he never wanted to limit his pool of players to train or have available to play games.  I think if his superstars had wanted to play HS he wouldn't have stopped them.

On the HS front we heard all the negative things about playing, but we haven't seen any of it. The better players are able to use the skills to keep out of the way of harm in most cases. My kid played last year and had a blast and is playing again. Missing an ECNL showcase will obviously limit exposure, just for the fact that you aren't there. However, there are many showcases around the country to attend as well as numerous camps, so that if you want to be recruited and you have some skills you can find a place that will work for you.

I love the idea of my kid playing for her school more than I do going to showcases --


----------



## GoldenGate

youthsportsugghhh said:


> NorCal folks fall into 2 camps with Deza -- Love him or don't -- not many fall in between. We had 2 interactions with him, one with PDP and one with DA. In neither case did my kid feel like she wanted to play for him. Obviously he and his coaches did some great things for some players. He has definitely burned bridges with how he operates. I have known players that he has had that did play HS or other sports outside of soccer to a point, I also know others that didn't want to possibly lose out by not training with others coming in. I agree he never wanted to limit his pool of players to train or have available to play games.  I think if his superstars had wanted to play HS he wouldn't have stopped them.
> 
> On the HS front we heard all the negative things about playing, but we haven't seen any of it. The better players are able to use the skills to keep out of the way of harm in most cases. My kid played last year and had a blast and is playing again. Missing an ECNL showcase will obviously limit exposure, just for the fact that you aren't there. However, there are many showcases around the country to attend as well as numerous camps, so that if you want to be recruited and you have some skills you can find a place that will work for you.
> 
> I love the idea of my kid playing for her school more than I do going to showcases --


The 2019 national HS player of the year played club for Deza, as have a couple other recent HS All Americans all of whom came back after HS, plus just about everyone on his 02 Quakes team.  His own kid played HS.  All of this stuff about how he boots kids off his teams for playing HS is just so ridiculous.  But if your kid isn't great, they run the risk of getting replaced or benched while they are gone, because life is about making choices. Some people here, however, seem to think it is about blaming everyone but themselves for the choices they make instead of taking responsibility for them. There's nothing wrong with him or Surf discouraging HS, just as there is nothing wrong with taking a parent taking their chances that playing it anyway will work out. It's not some evil, nefarious plot. There is something very wrong, however, with parents blaming him for the fact that their kid just isn't good enough to play HS without having to worry about getting replaced.  Deza is pretty straightforward about that, but some parents only want sunshine blown up their ass. 

Is goalie helicopter mommy ever going to explain what Deza did to her kid that was so horrible?  I'm guessing her kid never even made the team and she has never even talked to him in her life.  Instead she's regurgitating bs previously spewed by other jilted parents of players who just weren't that good. Am I right goalie helicopter mom?


----------



## BIGD

GT45 said:


> Geez are you his PR manager? I have no dog in the fight and do not know a thing about the guy. But, your posts are a little try too hard here. Take a breath. You are so far up his a*s, that it is hard to take your posts credibly.


More like the perfect club soccer customer.  Buying everything they are selling.


----------



## what-happened

crush said:


> You sure are a trip.  Right sometimes and wrong so much of the time.  I like this post though.  Word gets out by 7th or 8th grade  about the next best goats in SoCal.  Remember, were not talking just soccer skills to make it the next level.  You need $$$$, 4.0++ excellent and worthy of greatness SAT scores+ volunteer your free time helping the homeless and those in need and parents who STFU and pay to play.  If you piss off the wrong connections, blacklisted is sure to come your way.


No more SATs in your neck of the woods.  Take that off the list, right?


----------



## GT45

GoldenGate said:


> Oh FFS.  USC and UCLA both constitute more desirable destinations for an elite soccer player.  If USC, UCLA and Pepperdine make 100 offers that are financially similar, 99 out of 100 choose USC or UCLA, and maybe one goes with Pepperdine.  That is not a slight against Pepperdine.  It is because USC and UCLA have better soccer programs regardless of the fact that Pepperdine had one good season, they are better academic institutions, and they provide better opportunities for pretty much everything that doesn't involve a career in god.  But if your kid is going to pick a college because chasing national championships is important to her, by all means go with Pepperdine over UCLA and USC.  Makes a lot of sense.


Wrong. That is what you find more desireable. Pepperdine has top players who prefer Malibu to the dregs of LA. Imagine that!


----------



## GT45

GoldenGate said:


> Sure.  Currently the only way for a college coach and a player to have any "contact" until late sophomore year is through their club coach, while in the past it helped to get an introduction from the club coach but after that you could have all the contact and make all the visits you wanted. Now, however, the only way for a family to get a decent idea about a program and a coach's demeanor is by relying on what your club coach tells you because you can't even visit until junior year, so now offers are being made and accepted before a kid can even visit a coach on campus. But colleges love the new rule for a couple reasons.  First, the don't have to live up to verbal offers made early when the kid gets hurt or doesn't progress.  Second, they don't need to waste any more time schmoozing annoying people during informal visits.
> 
> Also, if you think college coaches are sitting around twiddling their thumbs to start the recruiting process on June 15 of sophomore year, you are an idiot.  Decisions are still essentially being made before then, only they are being made through club coaches without any personal interaction between families and colleges. Club coaches have all the power now due to the compressed recruiting time period.


College coaches cannot make offers prior to June 15th. Previously they could, and they could do it only through contacts arranged by club coaches. Coaches like Baker acted as player agents/gatekeepers because he knew they could not reach out to players directly. If you had a clue you would know how releived college coaches were with the rule changes. No longer beholden to club coaches. And, if you think college coaches are putting their trust and livelihood in the hands of club coaches by cheating through them, you are a fool. Also, no matter what a club coach may tell a family, there is still zero communication between the player and the college coach. So no way to know if an illegal offer is even legit.


----------



## BIGD

GoldenGate said:


> Oh FFS.  USC and UCLA both constitute more desirable destinations for an elite soccer player.  If USC, UCLA and Pepperdine make 100 offers that are financially similar, 99 out of 100 choose USC or UCLA, and maybe one goes with Pepperdine.  That is not a slight against Pepperdine.  It is because USC and UCLA have better soccer programs regardless of the fact that Pepperdine had one good season, they are better academic institutions, and they provide better opportunities for pretty much everything that doesn't involve a career in god.  But if your kid is going to pick a college because chasing national championships is important to her, by all means go with Pepperdine over UCLA and USC.  Makes a lot of sense.


The university you go to does not matter as much as the prestigious colleges would like you to believe.  Plenty of data to support that.


----------



## GoldenGate

BIGD said:


> The university you go to does not matter as much as the prestigious colleges would like you to believe.  Plenty of data to support that.


Great. You should use that logic to send your kid to CSUN instead of Stanford.  BTW, Pepperdine is ranked #209 for best universities by salary potential. 2021 College Rankings by Salary Potential | Payscale.  Definitely the best option for a kid, especially because it's a private school.


----------



## crush

GoldenGate said:


> Great. You should use that logic to* send your kid to CSUN instead of Stanford*.  BTW, Pepperdine is ranked #209 for best universities by salary potential. 2021 College Rankings by Salary Potential | Payscale.  Definitely the best option for a kid, especially because it's a private school.


Why do parents send their kids to school anyway?  It sounds like their being forced to go the parents school they want for their kid to look good on SM? Why not let the kid decide what they want to do with their life?  Remember EOTL, parent is spelled wrong.  It should be spelled, pairrent. Basically, two adults ((pair up)) to "rent" the kid for 18 years.  This was not supposed to be  "a rent to own kid."  Does this make sense in your little brain yet or too much for you to chew on?  Control freaks have a hard time with pairrents for some reason.  I love it because I'm not responsible for the kid decisions and I did my part.  Giving your kids true freedom is amazing.  Try it sometime.


----------



## GoldenGate

crush said:


> Why do parents send their kids to school anyway?  It sounds like their being forced to go the parents school they want for their kid to look good on SM? Why not let the kid decide what they want to do with their life?  Remember EOTL, parent is spelled wrong.  It should be spelled, pairrent. Basically, two adults ((pair up)) to "rent" the kid for 18 years.  This was not supposed to be  "a rent to own kid."  Does this make sense in your little brain yet or too much for you to chew on?  Control freaks have a hard time with pairrents for some reason.  I love it because I'm not responsible for the kid decisions and I did my part.  Giving your kids true freedom is amazing.  Try it sometime.


How's the job search going?  How's your daughter's recruiting process going? Are you still living out of a van?


----------



## GoldenGate

GT45 said:


> College coaches cannot make offers prior to June 15th. Previously they could, and they could do it only through contacts arranged by club coaches. Coaches like Baker acted as player agents/gatekeepers because he knew they could not reach out to players directly. If you had a clue you would know how releived college coaches were with the rule changes. No longer beholden to club coaches. And, if you think college coaches are putting their trust and livelihood in the hands of club coaches by cheating through them, you are a fool. Also, no matter what a club coach may tell a family, there is still zero communication between the player and the college coach. So no way to know if an illegal offer is even legit.


You're one of those morons who created a video and then started emailing college coaches on June 15 after sophomore year thinking that is how it's done, aren't you?  Well, I hate to tell you this, but what you thought was the beginning of the race was actually near the end for most top level programs.  They weren't reading your kid's email because they were busy on calls making offers that had been discussed and agreed to much earlier  between the college and club coaches, and then the club coaches and the parents. College coaches love the new rules because recruiting is now much easier.  They can get player recommendations from the club coaches, watch some showcases in peace, and not have to worry about placating kids and families through weirdly set up phone calls and unofficial visits.  In fact, they can and are making offers and pressuring decisions even before kids can visit on campus, which is really fucked up.  Under the new rules, families must rely on what their club coach is telling them about college programs because they can't even see for themselves before having to decide whether to accept or decline an offer.

I concede that what you are saying may have some truth at lower tier schools, which are always scrambling at the end for the left overs, which makes me think your kid is not an alpha but one of the left overs.  So go for it, do things your way.  Have your daughter play at a lower tier club and rely on videos of her tearing up AYSO teams.  Just remember to set it to some hipster music to really make it pop.  I hear Fresno State is always looking for players.


----------



## dk_b

GoldenGate said:


> You're one of those morons who created a video and then started emailing college coaches on June 15 after sophomore year thinking that is how it's done, aren't you?  Well, I hate to tell you this, but what you thought was the beginning of the race was actually near the end for most top level programs.  They weren't reading your kid's email because they were busy on calls making offers that had been discussed and agreed to much earlier  between the college and club coaches, and then the club coaches and the parents. College coaches love the new rules because recruiting is now much easier.  They can get player recommendations from the club coaches, watch some showcases in peace, and not have to worry about placating kids and families through weirdly set up phone calls and unofficial visits.  In fact, they can and are making offers and pressuring decisions even before kids can visit on campus, which is really fucked up.  Under the new rules, families must rely on what their club coach is telling them about college programs because they can't even see for themselves before having to decide whether to accept or decline an offer.
> 
> I concede that what you are saying may have some truth at lower tier schools, which are always scrambling at the end for the left overs, which makes me think your kid is not an alpha but one of the left overs.  So go for it, do things your way.  Have your daughter play at a lower tier club and rely on videos of her tearing up AYSO teams.  Just remember to set it to some hipster music to really make it pop.  I hear Fresno State is always looking for players.


Really unfortunate that you go out of your way to antagonize, insult and demean people and schools. There is substance to your comments that I find really interesting and germane to the discussion but you are not really interested in discussion but in dominating the thread. It is so tiresome and symbolic of why I left this for a while earlier in the year. There are others on this board who have had kids w/successful recruiting experiences who don’t bring near the arrogance that you do because they understand that there are many avenues to the “right” school for each kid and the fact that they may be parenting one who is considered “elite” enough for the top programs does not anoint them and their story some special status.  Your use of the terms “alpha” and “left overs” is so telling, just like your ad hominem on Crash (that was just mean).  I go out of my way to try to stay down the middle on my commenting - I don’t seek fights and try not to insult - but this is just ridiculous and you need to be called on it.  I’d be surprised if my observations are not shared by others (even folks who may disagree w/me on the topic and even folks who might agree with you in substance but not in style).


----------



## Carlsbad7

GoldenGate said:


> How's the job search going?  How's your daughter's recruiting process going? Are you still living out of a van?


----------



## crush

Carlsbad7 said:


> View attachment 12201


I've been dealing with this rich parent who got his hands in the soccer cookie jar for a long time.  It's ok, I can take it.  Dude was so mad when my dd left with her dignity and chin up.  The mental abuse these assholes put on 13 year olds is insane.


----------



## crush

Coach Mario just sent me a Surf Jr Tryouts for the 2016 and 2017 age group for next season.  4 and 5 year olds.  No traveling ((yay)) and all local games.  12 month program so dont you dare think about playing biddy basketball or God forbid want to go Surf the waves.  Starting so young....


----------



## outside!

dk_b said:


> Really unfortunate that you go out of your way to antagonize, insult and demean people and schools. There is substance to your comments that I find really interesting and germane to the discussion but you are not really interested in discussion but in dominating the thread. It is so tiresome and symbolic of why I left this for a while earlier in the year. There are others on this board who have had kids w/successful recruiting experiences who don’t bring near the arrogance that you do because they understand that there are many avenues to the “right” school for each kid and the fact that they may be parenting one who is considered “elite” enough for the top programs does not anoint them and their story some special status.  Your use of the terms “alpha” and “left overs” is so telling, just like your ad hominem on Crash (that was just mean).  I go out of my way to try to stay down the middle on my commenting - I don’t seek fights and try not to insult - but this is just ridiculous and you need to be called on it.  I’d be surprised if my observations are not shared by others (even folks who may disagree w/me on the topic and even folks who might agree with you in substance but not in style).


I would like to congratulate you on not saying the words that many of us are thinking. You are much more diplomatic than me. I feel sorry for their player, unless they have a personality to match.


----------



## GoldenGate

dk_b said:


> Really unfortunate that you go out of your way to antagonize, insult and demean people and schools. There is substance to your comments that I find really interesting and germane to the discussion but you are not really interested in discussion but in dominating the thread. It is so tiresome and symbolic of why I left this for a while earlier in the year. There are others on this board who have had kids w/successful recruiting experiences who don’t bring near the arrogance that you do because they understand that there are many avenues to the “right” school for each kid and the fact that they may be parenting one who is considered “elite” enough for the top programs does not anoint them and their story some special status.  Your use of the terms “alpha” and “left overs” is so telling, just like your ad hominem on Crash (that was just mean).  I go out of my way to try to stay down the middle on my commenting - I don’t seek fights and try not to insult - but this is just ridiculous and you need to be called on it.  I’d be surprised if my observations are not shared by others (even folks who may disagree w/me on the topic and even folks who might agree with you in substance but not in style).


Calling people out for their bs is a public service.  If they want to trash someone's livelihood with a bunch of bs lies, they get the respect they deserve, which is none.  Making up shit to attack people is what this forum does best.  Conspiracy theories about Cromwell committing crimes and conspiring with the LA Times and the feds? So much fun!  Baker and McGuire abusing children? Even better! The dude who fielded a team of Brazilians and won some kiddie tournament?  Now's our chance to go full xenophobe!  And, of course, let's trash Rapinoe, because homophobia is hard to get away with anywhere else!

Honestly, how hard is it to say that Surf and Deza discourage HS soccer but it's not what you want for your kid, and leave it at that? Impossible apparently.  Instead you get the goalie helicopter mom alleging that Deza is "threatening" people (twice) and engaging in behavior that is "shocking", crush commiserating about "how sad" it is what Deza is doing to children, socalsoccer dad claiming what coaches are doing is "unethical" after making up a fake and unsupported allegation that some unidentified coach "forced" kids to change soccer clubs so they could play HS soccer, bigd claiming that Deza is trying to "control your children" and scam you out of money, and then crush again, this time trashing foreigners. Yet you think I'm the problem for making fun of it.  

The reality is that Surf and Deza discourage soccer because they are trying to help their players and they believe it's the best way to do it.  There's no conspiracy.  Being honest about their goals and expectations is not a "threat".  They aren't trying to "control your children" or scam you to line their pockets.  It's your problem if you think it's fun to make up bs about people that actually impacts their livelihood, but it's not ok for me to mock them for the complete and utter stupidity of what they're saying.


----------



## GT45

GoldenGate said:


> You're one of those morons who created a video and then started emailing college coaches on June 15 after sophomore year thinking that is how it's done, aren't you?  Well, I hate to tell you this, but what you thought was the beginning of the race was actually near the end for most top level programs.  They weren't reading your kid's email because they were busy on calls making offers that had been discussed and agreed to much earlier  between the college and club coaches, and then the club coaches and the parents. College coaches love the new rules because recruiting is now much easier.  They can get player recommendations from the club coaches, watch some showcases in peace, and not have to worry about placating kids and families through weirdly set up phone calls and unofficial visits.  In fact, they can and are making offers and pressuring decisions even before kids can visit on campus, which is really fucked up.  Under the new rules, families must rely on what their club coach is telling them about college programs because they can't even see for themselves before having to decide whether to accept or decline an offer.
> 
> I concede that what you are saying may have some truth at lower tier schools, which are always scrambling at the end for the left overs, which makes me think your kid is not an alpha but one of the left overs.  So go for it, do things your way.  Have your daughter play at a lower tier club and rely on videos of her tearing up AYSO teams.  Just remember to set it to some hipster music to really make it pop.  I hear Fresno State is always looking for players.


No, I am not a moron, Angry Dude. I know the process quite well, and I am friendly with many top college coaches. Your attitude is downright comical. You are the angry boss shouting at us pions (in your very small mind), like some know-it-all. Your credibility was shot early on in your posting. I just laugh at your posts now. Go take a breath. You take yourself way too seriously. Why are you so angry? And, your defense of Deza is hilarious. Is that you, Mr. Deza?

Oh, by the way, the new recruiting rules have really only taken effect for the 2023's, since the 2022's were bit by Covid. There was nothing normal about their journeys. So your know-it-all attitude on the new recruiting rules is a figmant of your imagination.


----------



## GoldenGate

GT45 said:


> No, I am not a moron, Angry Dude. I know the process quite well, and I am friendly with many top college coaches. Your attitude is downright comical. You are the angry boss shouting at us pions (in your very small mind), like some know-it-all. Your credibility was shot early on in your posting. I just laugh at your posts now. Go take a breath. You take yourself way too seriously. Why are you so angry? And, your defense of Deza is hilarious. Is that you, Mr. Deza?
> 
> Oh, by the way, the new recruiting rules have really only taken effect for the 2023's, since the 2022's were bit by Covid. There was nothing normal about their journeys. So your know-it-all attitude on the new recruiting rules is a figmant of your imagination.


Angry?  I'm having a perfectly enjoyable time mocking people here. Maybe we should change the subject and accuse some random soccer coach of abusing children or taking bribes.  It's been almost two days since the last time.


----------



## GT45

GoldenGate said:


> Angry?  I'm having a perfectly enjoyable time mocking people here. Maybe we should change the subject and accuse some random soccer coach of abusing children or taking bribes.  It's been almost two days since the last time.


Yeah angry. Go read your posts. You are in this power shouting match. Go look at how many posters are supporting posts for calling you out on your b.s. Now look at who supports your posts. That would be no one.


----------



## MicPaPa

GoldenGate said:


> Angry?  I'm having a perfectly enjoyable time mocking people here. Maybe we should change the subject and accuse some random soccer coach of abusing children or taking bribes.  It's been almost two days since the last time.


Or, maybe you should to go face to face with goalie helicopter mommies husband, eh cyber stud?


----------



## MicPaPa

Never ceases to amaze me what a keyboard, anonymity, and years of surrendering ones lunch money can do to a "grown man."


----------



## timbuck

GoldenGate said:


> Great. You should use that logic to send your kid to CSUN instead of Stanford.  BTW, Pepperdine is ranked #209 for best universities by salary potential. 2021 College Rankings by Salary Potential | Payscale.  Definitely the best option for a kid, especially because it's a private school.


I'd be curious to see the "Salary by college athletes that aren't playing pro football or basketball."


----------



## crush

GoldenGate said:


> *crush commiserating about "how sad" it is what Deza is doing to children,*


First off, I have nothing but positives regarding Deza and his coaching children to be the best soccer player now and in college.  He's the boss now and he was never my boss or my dd boss.  My dd only played against his teams and beat them both times, his EQ team and Force team   From what everyone is saying about his coaching and teaching the passing game and not caring about the score is true and according to legends, he's top notch, you mean person.  I can voice my "moo displeasure" about the player pool and not allowing HSS.  I think it's unfair and not right but to each his own.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

BIGD said:


> Yep, you can leave a sport and get back in pretty quickly, but they don't want you to believe that because it lowers their value and business proposition.   They want you to believe that year round specialization is the only way, or you will be left behind.   It's really about the DOC's losing control and $$ and keeping up the pressure and fear that their business model is based on.


My daughter played for Deza. He legitimately felt the training in HS was not worthy of the elite players. Nothing more - nothing less. In DA, you paid the same whether you played HS or not - so it definitely wasn't about the money then. Yes, you can "get back in pretty quickly" but with a lost period of time of better training and whatever incremental gain that entails.

There are very good reasons to play HS soccer, or another sport other than soccer for that matter, that have nothing to do with the training. I like ECNL because it gives clubs and families a choice - unlike DA.


----------



## Brav520

crush said:


> Coach Mario just sent me a Surf Jr Tryouts for the 2016 and 2017 age group for next season.  4 and 5 year olds.  No traveling ((yay)) and all local games.  12 month program so dont you dare think about playing biddy basketball or God forbid want to go Surf the waves.  Starting so young....


all local is a bit deceiving when the majority of your road games are in East county and your team is in north county


----------



## BIGD

GoldenGate said:


> Great. You should use that logic to send your kid to CSUN instead of Stanford.  BTW, Pepperdine is ranked #209 for best universities by salary potential. 2021 College Rankings by Salary Potential | Payscale.  Definitely the best option for a kid, especially because it's a private school.


Payscale relies on anonymous self-reporting so not exactly a great source. 

I could spend the time to post better sources that show that lifetime earnings potential is more closely linked to SAT/ACT scores than university attended unless you are a minority, but it wouldn’t make any difference to you so I won’t bother.


----------



## LouSag

GoldenGate said:


> In a perfect world, you are right, but it is not a perfect world.  My kid did not play HS as a freshman because she was pretty small still, and ended up being asked to play up as filler at an ECNL showcase to help the sophomores get recruited and because a couple kids had played HS instead.  She went from filler to being recruited by 20 schools in less than a week, while one of the kids who played HS ended up getting hurt later, missed the next showcase, and that was pretty much that.  Another landed on the bench because my kid took her spot while she was gone. They both ended up at different clubs and at colleges their parents believed were beneath them.  They didn't play in front of college coaches until well into their junior and senior years and by then most of the top colleges were done making offers to anyone other than purple unicorns.
> 
> You never know when or how your kid will get found.  But if you're going to ECNL events playing under Deza, your kid is pretty much maximizing their recruiting potential. And if they don't, they run a real risk that that they go to Pepperdine or SDSU when it could have been UCLA or USC.  Or maybe they still get an offer at UCLA or USC, but it's as a recruited walk on because they already committed all their money to kids they offered from the ECNL showcase they missed.


What’s the end game here?  Playing for USC/UCLA or what you prefer to call lesser schools such as Pepperdine or SDSU? If playing for a strong ECNL club showcases a player to get into a school, with possible scholarship money or not, that they otherwise wouldn’t get into without a ECNL soccer background….well that’s a “win”.   I’m referring to schools like Stanford and Ivy League schools.  Not UCLA and USC.  If your daughter wants to go pro and make $52 grand playing in the NWSL for 3-4 years while holding down a waitress job on the side, you better keep that spare room open at your house, cause she will be moving back in at age 25.   A degree from a prestigious school sets a kid up for life.  Play futbol to get into school, and get a legit degree should be the goal for 99% of these teenagers.  If my daughter wants to play professionally, I would highly discourage it.  Your mileage may vary…


----------



## crush

LouSag said:


> *What’s the end game here? * Playing for USC/UCLA or what you prefer to call lesser schools such as Pepperdine or SDSU? If playing for a strong ECNL club showcases a player to get into a school, with possible scholarship money or not, that they otherwise wouldn’t get into without a ECNL soccer background….well that’s a “win”.   I’m referring to schools like Stanford and Ivy League schools.  Not UCLA and USC.  If your daughter wants to go pro and make $52 grand playing in the NWSL for 3-4 years while holding down a waitress job on the side, you better keep that spare room open at your house, cause she will be moving back in at age 25.   A degree from a prestigious school sets a kid up for life.  Play futbol to get into school, and get a legit degree should be the goal for 99% of these teenagers.  If my daughter wants to play professionally, I would highly discourage it.  Your mileage may vary…


I can share from my personal experience.  First, most of us dads who grew up in Socal and actually played sports were either SC or Bruin fans.  My mom went to SC and my bro went to UCLA.  Basically, either you like one or hate one.  I was different kind of fan.  I liked both schools and took a lot heat for that.  Fast forward a few years to my little baby girl.   She is balling and I mean really really balling in the socal youth soccer circuit and of course, I would like my goat to play at big U, right?  No way were doing all this soccer for CSUN or The Runnin Rebels........this was me early on btw and not my attitude today.  I got humbled   Again, this is the mind set of most dads early on plus our kid will get a full ride in soccer.  I do remember three Docs all tell my  player in 7th and 8th grade, "where do you want to play college and for God's sakes, please don't say UCLA or USC."  I now know why!!!

P.S.  Money is not everything and money will never buy you true happiness.  The goal for all teenagers should be to do whatever you like with YOUR life.  I told both my kids to always know their is a place for them to come live anytime and no one will be mocked for needing a place to sleep in tough times.  Whatever my dd wants I support her is the point I'm making,


----------



## Carlsbad7

crush said:


> I can share from my personal experience.  First, most of us dads who grew up in Socal and actually played sports were either SC or Bruin fans.  My mom went to SC and my bro went to UCLA.  Basically, either you like one or hate one.  I was different kind of fan.  I liked both schools and took a lot heat for that.  Fast forward a few years to my little baby girl.   She is balling and I mean really really balling in the socal youth soccer circuit and of course, I would like my goat to play at big U, right?  No way were doing all this soccer for CSUN or The Runnin Rebels........this was me early on btw and not my attitude today.  I got humbled   Again, this is the mind set of most dads early on plus our kid will get a full ride in soccer.  I do remember three Docs all tell my  player in 7th and 8th grade, "where do you want to play college and for God's sakes, please don't say UCLA or USC."  I now know why!!!
> 
> P.S.  Money is not everything and money will never buy you true happiness.  The goal for all teenagers should be to do whatever you like with YOUR life.  I told both my kids to always know their is a place for them to come live anytime and no one will be mocked for needing a place to sleep in tough times.  Whatever my dd wants I support her is the point I'm making,


In the business world 10% of the colleges have name recognition in some form or other (split by industry) with employers. The other 90% check the box for a 4 year college on a resume. The big name colleges can get your foot in the door for an interview but that's about it. Theoretically the more opportunities you get for interviews the better your chances are for a good job. So there is value in going to one of the to 10% name recognition schools. However, I'm not sure if all the extra things you need to do are worth it though. If you really want to get ahead just do an MBA or JD.

Another thing to consider is if you're playing soccer at a big name college exactly how much time will you get to spend on studies? I've heard rumors of college coaches passing on players that say they're going after overly complex degrees. 

Professional Men's and Women's soccer players start out making 40k-75k per year.

I have a relative that went to one of the Elite D1 Private Schools on Lacrosse scholarship. Had most of his college paid for. When he graduated he looked into doing professional Lacrosse and decided against it when he found out people bagging groceries were making the same amount of money as pro players. He said that this was one of the biggest issues with players continuing to do sports after college. You could make 100k+ in a desk job (with upward mobility) or 30k playing sports with very little chance of doing better. If there was student loans you literally had to do a desk job.


----------



## crush

Carlsbad7 said:


> In the business world 10% of the colleges have name recognition in some form or other (split by industry) with employers. The other 90% check the box for a 4 year college on a resume. The big name colleges can get your foot in the door for an interview but that's about it. Theoretically the more opportunities you get for interviews the better your chances are for a good job. So there is value in going to one of the to 10% name recognition schools. However, I'm not sure if all the extra things you need to do are worth it though. If you really want to get ahead just do an MBA or JD.
> 
> Another thing to consider is if you're playing soccer at a big name college exactly how much time will you get to spend on studies? I've heard rumors of college coaches passing on players that say they're going after overly complex degrees.
> 
> Professional Men's and Women's soccer players start out making 40k-75k per year.
> 
> I have a relative that went to one of the Elite D1 Private Schools on Lacrosse scholarship. Had most of his college paid for. When he graduated he looked into doing professional Lacrosse and decided against it when he found out people bagging groceries were making the same amount of money as pro players. He said that this was one of the biggest issues with players continuing to do sports after college. You could make 100k+ in a desk job (with upward mobility) or 30k playing sports with very little chance of doing better. If there was student loans you literally had to do a desk job.


I know this far fetch idea but I'm hearing some cool stuff about the UBI and how Magnetism will change all of our lives for the better.  Now if you want talk about the way things used to be, I agree with everything your saying.


----------



## oh canada

NoSouppForYou said:


> IT
> 
> It was not pretty for Sharks but to be accurate:
> U19 1-0 Surf
> U17 2-0 Surf  (Deza coached)
> U16 6-0 Surf
> U15 4-0 Surf (includes MW recruits) (Deza coached)
> U14 6-0 Surf (MW coached team with multiple Albion recruits)
> U13 6-1 Surf (MW coached team and 90% his Albion 09 team)
> 
> MW is not the savior everyone seems to think he will be for Sharks.  He doesn't have the patience, coaching skill, nor does San Diego have enough talent outside Surf to be competitive in the Sonoran division.  MW was out coached by CB in the 09 game as well by DT in the 08 game.  The older Sharks coaches made better adjustments than MW in their games to keep it close.


Someone is wayyyyyy too invested and spending wayyyyy too much time with youth soccer.

MW seems like nice guy, but if I'm being completely honest, I always thought his teams played a lot of kickball. Watch his defenders, do they try to possess and pass the ball out and around or just blast the ball out of bounds or forward over the midfield? Maybe that's changed.


----------



## oh canada

Lightning Red said:


> MW is a fantastic coach and an even better guy but if any of you seriously think that Surf will lose out you are nuts. I watched 4/5 of the games on Sunday and the scores didn’t tell the story. Every game could have been 10+.


somebody else is wayyyyy too "invested" in youth soccer.


----------



## oh canada

Goforgoal said:


> I don't think anyone here is saying that Red. Surf's rock solid starting 11 are not going anywhere, or even the 12-14 that get enough playing time. It's the 15 to 20, and solid ECRL players that Sharks may be able to pick up here and there that improve their starting 11. At least to a point to give other teams in the league better games. That's clearly the objective, and that situation would be better for everyone involved I would think.


don't be so sure, Surf has lost top starters from its 2004, 2005, and 2006 team through the years.


----------



## Goforgoal

oh canada said:


> don't be so sure, Surf has lost top starters from its 2004, 2005, and 2006 team through the years.


Maybe when the DA was running. The environment in SoCal is quite different today.


----------



## socalkdg

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> It is funny because I am anything but a helicopter parent.


Quick funny story.   Wife goes up to Brandi Chastain to thank her for coaching my daughter at Interregionals.   Just as she gets there Brandi starts talking about my daughter to the keeper coach.   Made it look like my wife was trying to listen in.


----------



## socalkdg

I'm pretty sure last ECNL is in Tennessee this weekend and last GA is following weekend at Silverlakes.   Shouldn't all girls be free for a couple months to play High School then?

Alyssa Thompson seemed to have no issues playing club (top 10 ranked) and High School (Player of the year)

Silverlakes is hosting a pretty big High School Tournament Dec. 20-22.   SilverLakes Winter Classic.


----------



## ecsoccermom

oh canada said:


> Someone is wayyyyyy too invested and spending wayyyyy too much time with youth soccer.
> 
> MW seems like nice guy, but if I'm being completely honest, I always thought his teams played a lot of kickball. Watch his defenders, do they try to possess and pass the ball out and around or just blast the ball out of bounds or forward over the midfield? Maybe that's changed.


MW's teams were actually known for their passing.  The 2006 National Championship team was notorious for the entertaining style of play.  Don't take my work for it.  Look up the old posts from 2-3 years ago.


----------



## Lightning Red

oh canada said:


> don't be so sure, Surf has lost top starters from its 2004, 2005, and 2006 team through the years.


They certainly lost some over the years.  Back to the point, however, how many of them went to Sharks?  I can't think of any.


----------



## dad4

GoldenGate said:


> Great. You should use that logic to send your kid to CSUN instead of Stanford.  BTW, Pepperdine is ranked #209 for best universities by salary potential. 2021 College Rankings by Salary Potential | Payscale.  Definitely the best option for a kid, especially because it's a private school.


You rank schools by graduates’ salaries.  So you recommend my kid should play for Harvey Mudd?

Not a bad idea, actually.  The games would be closer than if she played for MIT.   

Either way, it’s time to stop worrying about ECNL and pay more attention to robotics.


----------



## LASTMAN14

ecsoccermom said:


> MW's teams were actually known for their passing.  The 2006 National Championship team was notorious for the entertaining style of play.  Don't take my work for it.  Look up the old posts from 2-3 years ago.


I can substantiate your post. My youngest 06 DD played for LAGSB and LAG DA. We went head to head with MW 06 Albion team for several years. Great battles playing possession minded soccer. I won't post it but I have the film from some of those games.


----------



## Carlsbad7

Lightning Red said:


> They certainly lost some over the years.  Back to the point, however, how many of them went to Sharks?  I can't think of any.


If Surf players were leaving the club several years ago it would be for DA (Albion or City) or went to Blues.

Sharks have a DOC that can make things happen now so it remains to be seen if this is an option.


----------



## Goforgoal

LASTMAN14 said:


> I can substantiate your post. My youngest 06 DD played for LAGSB and LAG DA. We went head to head with MW 06 Albion team for several years. Great battles playing possession minded soccer. I won't post it but I have the film from some of those games.


To be fair, and this is by no means a knock on MW, but its easier to play good soccer and make the coach look good when you are flush with smart, athletic and skilled players. When a team is outmatched is when you tend to see more panic long balls and lumpier soccer. That Albion 06 team was pretty stacked. Many of those players bailed to Surf last year though when the DA folded.


----------



## ecsoccermom

Goforgoal said:


> To be fair, and this is by no means a knock on MW, but its easier to play good soccer and make the coach look good when you are flush with smart, athletic and skilled players. When a team is outmatched is when you tend to see more panic long balls and lumpier soccer. That Albion 06 team was pretty stacked. Many of those players bailed to Surf last year though when the DA folded.


When the DA broke, 1 went to Surf, 1 to Sharks, 6 to Rebels, 1 to Blues RL who is back to Albion and one moved to Texas.  They were a talented group for sure.


----------



## Goforgoal

ecsoccermom said:


> When the DA broke, 1 went to Surf, 1 to Sharks, 6 to Rebels, 1 to Blues RL who is back to Albion and one moved to Texas.  They were a talented group for sure.


Thanks for clarifying. I thought it was 3-4.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Goforgoal said:


> To be fair, and this is by no means a knock on MW, but its easier to play good soccer and make the coach look good when you are flush with smart, athletic and skilled players. When a team is outmatched is when you tend to see more panic long balls and lumpier soccer. That Albion 06 team was pretty stacked. Many of those players bailed to Surf last year though when the DA folded.


He had those players for many years. Developed those players. They did not always play in this manner. It took time. So, the year they won Regionals at Far West was a high point.


----------



## MicPaPa

oh canada said:


> Someone is wayyyyyy too invested and spending wayyyyy too much time with youth soccer.
> 
> MW seems like nice guy, but if I'm being completely honest, I always thought his teams played a lot of kickball. Watch his defenders, do they try to possess and pass the ball out and around or just blast the ball out of bounds or forward over the midfield? Maybe that's changed.


Nonsense, you've confused him with someone else. My kids  played MW's teams for years and they were always well coached and disciplined passing/possession teams. As I recall, they could be knocked off their game with physical & speed kickball. In the end, they were always great games, losing more of the matchups than won. Given time, he'll have an impact at Sharks.


----------



## Fortheloveofsoccer

oh canada said:


> Someone is wayyyyyy too invested and spending wayyyyy too much time with youth soccer.
> 
> MW seems like nice guy, but if I'm being completely honest, I always thought his teams played a lot of kickball. Watch his defenders, do they try to possess and pass the ball out and around or just blast the ball out of bounds or forward over the midfield? Maybe that's changed.


I also disagree. We've watched him coach for years and we've watched him develop mediocre players from just being decent to true ballers. He knows how to develop players but he also knows how to adjust during the game and he defiently knows how to win. There have been so many games where on paper MW is outmatched with stronger horses but pulls out a win. He is smart and isn't bound to one style of play. Playing out the back and having defenderd that PASS and don't just kick is one of the most important ways to control a game. If you are not seeing it from Sharks now it is only becuase he has just started, they will be controlling it out of the back in no time, trust me. I think it's true...Surf will not lose any of their starters to sharks. They will be getting high Surf ECNLR players and those on the first team who are recieving very little playing. Besides from the Surf first team....it should be a no brainer for any G07 and below to move to Sharks. It is 1 of 3 ECNL clubs in socal, has a strong new DOC who is a great coach and good guy, and is local. I honeslty can't think of a reason why anyone who is decent would not go. I have never heard of or seen anything other than great things come from MW. I predict that by the end of next season Sharks will have at least 5 Girls teams in top 4 of their league...I've seen him do it. If my girls weren't in their final year of recruitng I'd take them in a heart beat.


----------



## Carlsbad7

Fortheloveofsoccer said:


> I also disagree. We've watched him coach for years and we've watched him develop mediocre players from just being decent to true ballers. He knows how to develop players but he also knows how to adjust during the game and he defiently knows how to win. There have been so many games where on paper MW is outmatched with stronger horses but pulls out a win. He is smart and isn't bound to one style of play. Playing out the back and having defenderd that PASS and don't just kick is one of the most important ways to control a game. If you are not seeing it from Sharks now it is only becuase he has just started, they will be controlling it out of the back in no time, trust me. I think it's true...Surf will not lose any of their starters to sharks. They will be getting high Surf ECNLR players and those on the first team who are recieving very little playing. Besides from the Surf first team....it should be a no brainer for any G07 and below to move to Sharks. It is 1 of 3 ECNL clubs in socal, has a strong new DOC who is a great coach and good guy, and is local. I honeslty can't think of a reason why anyone who is decent would not go. I have never heard of or seen anything other than great things come from MW. I predict that by the end of next season Sharks will have at least 5 Girls teams in top 4 of their league...I've seen him do it. If my girls weren't in their final year of recruitng I'd take them in a heart beat.


This is exactly how I see things going as well. 

Surf will always have the name and brand but it's going to get diluted as Sharks start pulling sidelined talent.

Seems like a no-brainer if you're a bubble player at Surf. Continue sitting on the bench or start at Sharks. They play in the same ECNL league + you have a better chance of being ID'd.


----------



## crush

Carlsbad7 said:


> This is exactly how I see things going as well.
> 
> Surf will always have the name and brand but it's going to get diluted as Sharks start pulling sidelined talent.
> 
> Seems like a no-brainer if you're a bubble player at Surf. Continue sitting on the bench or start at Sharks. They play in the same ECNL league + you have a better chance of being ID'd.


I firmly believe that anyone who signs up to play soccer under the age of 17 should actually get in the game and play minutes.  Seriously, why sign up?  I know one player when she was 11 was super fast but didnt make the A team.  In fact, she was on the C team.  Why C team?  Because she wanted to play most of the game so she could get better.  Today, she is on the A team going to one of the best schools in our country on a soccer scholarship. Based on all the great things about MW, the club will do great and will be a great option for the girls who dont want to be in a pool of 40 hoping to be called out of that pool so they could play in the game.


----------



## SDMama

How will this change things?


----------



## Brav520

Oh wow , he has some great u little teams at City SC, especially the 2012s


----------



## Goforgoal

Eh that's too bad. I was hopeful that MW would be able to lure him to Sharks. Great pickup for Surf. I assume that implies CB will be moving up to olders?


----------



## Fortheloveofsoccer

SDMama said:


> How will this change things? View attachment 12238


I've heard great things about Walker. I think it shows that GA clubs are not only losing top players but top coaches to ECNL clubs and the true state the GA and GA clubs are in, which isn't good. GA had a weak debut last year and is even worse this year with top GA teams and GA players moving to ECNL. I think more and more will jump the GA ship before it sinks.


----------



## Speedy

SDMama said:


> How will this change things?


Just means that CB is moving up to ECNL and that it costs a little more to play on the top younger team now


----------



## RedHawk

Can someone explain what “girls zone one director means”??


----------



## Carlsbad7

Speedy said:


> Just means that CB is moving up to ECNL and that it costs a little more to play on the top younger team now


OMG "costs a little more to play on the top team" So awesome. ;-)


----------



## Lightning Red

RedHawk said:


> Can someone explain what “girls zone one director means”??


Director of the three youngest ECNL levels.


----------



## Goforgoal

Lightning Red said:


> Director of the three youngest ECNL levels.


You would know better than I would, but I thought Zone 1 as Surf calls it is between Mario and ECNL.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Can anyone confirm. Deza talking to UCLA?


----------



## Carlsbad7

CB's Surf G2009 team got a scare today from MW's G2009 Sharks team at Surf College Cup. Sharks came close but lost 0-1 in the Final.

Also hearing that CB's Surf 2010s barely beat Eagles.

Surf better wake up + make some changes quick. Other clubs are coming and arrogance is not bringing in talent.


----------



## Brav520

Carlsbad7 said:


> CB's Surf G2009 team got a scare today from MW's G2009 Sharks team at Surf College Cup. Sharks came close but lost 0-1 in the Final.
> 
> Also hearing that CB's Surf 2010s barely beat Eagles.
> 
> Surf better wake up + make some changes quick. Other clubs are coming and arrogance is not bringing in talent.


How about one of their u-little teams deciding to win a game 25-0 in so cal league this year 

can’t confirm because no scores posted , but did hear that one a couple weeks back


----------



## Carlsbad7

Brav520 said:


> How about one of their u-little teams deciding to win a game 25-0 in so cal league this year
> 
> can’t confirm because no scores posted , but did hear that one a couple weeks back


Ulittle is roughly 40-50 minute games which would mean a goal every 2 minutes. Pure class...

The other team should have just kept kicking the ball out to see if they'd continue chasing it over and over.


----------



## Lightning Red

Carlsbad7 said:


> Ulittle is roughly 40-50 minute games which would mean a goal every 2 minutes. Pure class...
> 
> The other team should have just kept kicking the ball out to see if they'd continue chasing it over and over.


You are prob used to that these days in your club.  You should send the coaches a note about your strategies for prevention.


----------



## Carlsbad7

Lightning Red said:


> You are prob used to that these days in your club.  You should send the coaches a note about your strategies for prevention.


Might want to slow down on the hooch at night

Are you advocating for children beating other teams by 25+ goal differentials?

Generally when coaches get in +5 type situations they tell their players to pass X number of times before shooting or they pull 1 or 2 players from the field to try and keep the game competitive.


----------



## LouSag

oh canada said:


> don't be so sure, Surf has lost top starters from its 2004, 2005, and 2006 team through the years.


Because they got pushed out by better players…
Let’s not kid ourselves…Surf gets tons of talented players.  Produce or your playing time evaporated.  Albion, Rebels and Sharks see many of the top players pushed out of Surf first teams.


----------



## LouSag

Goforgoal said:


> Eh that's too bad. I was hopeful that MW would be able to lure him to Sharks. Great pickup for Surf. I assume that implies CB will be moving up to olders?


Give Craig back the keys to the Ferrari..the 06’s (he had them 3 years ago)


----------



## LouSag

RedHawk said:


> Can someone explain what “girls zone one director means”??


Director for the youngers at Surf.  U13 and below


----------



## LouSag

RedHawk said:


> Can someone explain what “girls zone one director means”??


Director for the youngers at Surf.  U13 and below.  He will probably coach 3 teams too.


----------



## LouSag

LASTMAN14 said:


> Can anyone confirm. Deza talking to UCLA?


Cause UCLA is interviewing for a new women’s head coach









						Sources: Orlando Pride to hire Amanda Cromwell as head coach – Equalizer Soccer
					

Multiple sources tell The Equalizer that the Orlando Pride plan to hire Amanda Cromwell as the team’s next head coach. Cromwell coached NCAA powerhouse UCLA for the past eight years, winning an national title in 2013, her first season in charge. Orlando spent the second half of the 2021 National...




					equalizersoccer.com


----------



## LASTMAN14

LouSag said:


> Cause UCLA is interviewing for a new women’s head coach
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sources: Orlando Pride to hire Amanda Cromwell as head coach – Equalizer Soccer
> 
> 
> Multiple sources tell The Equalizer that the Orlando Pride plan to hire Amanda Cromwell as the team’s next head coach. Cromwell coached NCAA powerhouse UCLA for the past eight years, winning an national title in 2013, her first season in charge. Orlando spent the second half of the 2021 National...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> equalizersoccer.com


I know that...which is why I was asking for confirmation of it the rumor was true or not.


----------



## oh canada

LouSag said:


> Because they got pushed out by better players…
> Let’s not kid ourselves…Surf gets tons of talented players.  Produce or your playing time evaporated.  Albion, Rebels and Sharks see many of the top players pushed out of Surf first teams.


Partially true, but also partially false. Some players get pushed out, yes. But I can think of at least 5-6 across those age groups (my kid plays with one of the 05s--not on one of the clubs you mention) who would still be starting there had they not left. You sound as if you're a Surf parent. If you have been there 5+ years and your kid in one of those age groups, then you should know about these players too. 

I know it's very difficult for the Surf devotees to understand, but some players find a better fit elsewhere and thrive. It's a blow to the "Surf is Supreme" ego, of course, (to have a player leave) so the line from the club will always be, "they weren't good enough". But watch those players on the field now and your eyes will see the truth.

There were very legitimate reasons other than playing time to leave Surf over the past few years. Take the 2005s, for example, they had like 5 coaches over the course of three years, one of whom left under allegations of sexual harassment.  The 2004s had their own set of issues with favoritism and politics being front and center with two of Surf's top execs having daughters on that team. And, if you get your wish with CB taking over the 2006s, won't they have had only two coaches for 8+ years? And you wonder why they might not be progressing? A control-freak parent group who won't let their kids be touched by Deza? (pure speculation, of course, but it does seem odd)

It's not just limited to Surf. Starting players move from Blues, Legends, etc. too. My overall point is that the notion that all players leave clubs --even the biggest--only because they're not good enough to stay is demonstrably hogwash.


----------



## Soccerdude oc

Looks like Albion lost another top coach to an ECNL club, Danny Madrigal. That's 4 coaches that I know of that have left GA programs to go to an ECNL girls program. Seems like GA is no longer a place for top players or top coaches.


----------



## Carlsbad7

W


Soccerdude oc said:


> Looks like Albion lost another top coach to an ECNL club, Danny Madrigal. That's 4 coaches that I know of that have left GA programs to go to an ECNL girls program. Seems like GA is no longer a place for top players or top coaches.


Where did he go? I'm guessing Sharks.


----------



## timbuck

Soccerdude oc said:


> Looks like Albion lost another top coach to an ECNL club, Danny Madrigal. That's 4 coaches that I know of that have left GA programs to go to an ECNL girls program. Seems like GA is no longer a place for top players or top coaches.


Don't forget Gus is now at Surf after a short stint with Liverpool Irvine.


----------



## LouSag

Carlsbad7 said:


> W
> 
> Where did he go? I'm guessing Sharks.


He went to Rebels


----------



## Carlsbad7

LouSag said:


> He went to Rebels


I hope everything works out. However I've seen Danny be an ass multiple times. Not a coach I'd go out of my way to play for.


----------



## outside!

Carlsbad7 said:


> I hope everything works out. However I've seen Danny be an ass multiple times. Not a coach I'd go out of my way to play for.


Agree and I am not the only one. Once had a player that played for him years previously tell me, "If you see Danny, spit in his shoes for me."


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

outside! said:


> Agree and I am not the only one. Once had a player that played for him years previously tell me, "If you see Danny, spit in his shoes for me."


You increase your odds with Danny if you play futsal and enroll in his futsal classes.  From a non-biased observer.


----------



## Carlsbad7

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> You increase your odds with Danny if you play futsal and enroll in his futsal classes.  From a non-biased observer.


I've seen Danny walk off the Futsal court before the game was over (multiple times) if his team wasnt winning. Leaving the players + parents to fend for themselves. 

Hes also told me perseronally which players on my kids team sucked and why. Some of his observations were correct others were way off. It was just odd listening to an adult talk about 7yr old children that way. 

Kids are kids the ones that are good today might quit tomorrow. The ones the G team today could be top A team players tomorrow. Be professional + be a role model for youth.


----------



## crush

Carlsbad7 said:


> I've seen Danny walk off the Futsal court before the game was over (multiple times) if his team wasnt winning. Leaving the players + parents to fend for themselves.
> 
> Hes also told me perseronally which players on my kids team sucked and why. Some of his observations were correct others were way off. It was just odd listening to an adult talk about 7yr old children that way.
> 
> Kids are kids the ones that are good today might quit tomorrow. The ones the G team today could be top A team players tomorrow. Be professional + be a role model for youth.


Best coach my dd ever had the best policies I have ever heard with regards to parents ((the customers)).  She played for him for two years and he never waivered from his word and his policies and I truly respect him for it.  Fair down the board.  My wife tried to bring him Thanksgiving dinner and a slice of pie and he refused and was actually take a back by it.  I get it now and understand why he was so against this new pay to play model. I kid you not bro.  I saw with my own eyes.  He was stern and set in his policies and said, "Oh no, no no, I can;t take anything that would look to show favoritism to your child because of some find pie ma'am and all the fixings.  

This was my first play by play dad and coach talk with him before we signed.  This was years ago and we won State Cup.  He was and is still the best coach for females.  

Coach:  Hi, it's coach so and so and I've been watching your dd ball the last 8 months and want to offer her a spot on my U11 team. 

Dad ((me)):  Whose going to be on the team?  What players you got?  What position you see my player?  How about play time?  How much to pay to play?  What about next year and the year after?  Will you develop my player into greatness?  
Coach:  I have a policy I dont talk about other players with parents that are not their parents.  I decide where kid plays.  I decide play time but everyone on the team will get opportunities to prove themselves.  X amount and that's it.  No full rides.  I add new players every year and cut players every year.  One year deal.  Great players develop themselves by playing with great players.  Cream will rise to the top unless you pay for fake cream from fake cows.  
Dad: Come on man, I need  to.......I mean my dd would like to know who she will be playing with
Coach: I have a policy I dont talk about other players with parents.  That is not respectful and right
Dad: No way, I dont believe you
Coach:  Sorry, I will not talk about another player with you, ever!!!  
Dad:  Ok, I believe you.  This is amazing and hard to be true


----------



## Fortheloveofsoccer

Carlsbad7 said:


> W
> 
> Where did he go? I'm guessing Sharks.


rebels


----------



## crush

Fortheloveofsoccer said:


> rebels


I heard a rumor that Gus was being mentored by Dezi?  So he never went to Surf and straight to the Rebels?


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Carlsbad7 said:


> I've seen Danny walk off the Futsal court before the game was over (multiple times) if his team wasnt winning. Leaving the players + parents to fend for themselves.


Sadly, me too.  And he LOVES players with great skills who don't know how to pass.


----------



## FernandoFromNationalCity

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Sadly, me too.  And he LOVES players with great skills who don't know how to pass.


He’s going to implode at that Rebels who’s playing style is only passing back and they don’t want their players to be creative.


----------



## LouSag

crush said:


> I heard a rumor that Gus was being mentored by Dezi?  So he never went to Surf and straight to the Rebels?


Gus is at Surf and running the ECRL program


----------



## Socal-Soccer-Dad

Carlsbad7 said:


> Generally when coaches get in +5 type situations they tell their players to pass X number of times before shooting or they pull 1 or 2 players from the field to try and keep the game competitive.


In a scrimmage, my kid's team was pulling ahead by 7+ goals... and the coach instructed to the team they can only score with their off foot... and toning down the goal celebrations with each additional goal... I was okay with that. No point in demoralizing the other kids in a scrimmage. In a tournament where goal differentials come into play, I can see keep going... 

But not sure how the other team felt when they heard that cause he just yelled that instruction onto the field and everyone heard that


----------



## gotothebushes

crush said:


> I heard a rumor that Gus was being mentored by Dezi?  So he never went to Surf and straight to the Rebels?


Deza is mentoring Gus? Wow!


----------



## Carlsbad7

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> In a scrimmage, my kid's team was pulling ahead by 7+ goals... and the coach instructed to the team they can only score with their off foot... and toning down the goal celebrations with each additional goal... I was okay with that. No point in demoralizing the other kids in a scrimmage. In a tournament where goal differentials come into play, I can see keep going...
> 
> But not sure how the other team felt when they heard that cause he just yelled that instruction onto the field and everyone heard that


The idea is the same... 

Neither team benefits from running up the score. The kids getting beat up on are demoralized. The ones delivering the beating are given a false sense of being better than they are. The coach getting beat will have upset parents + the coach that won will have happy parents.

The problem is neither team is learning anything. Generally 20-0 type scores (in the youngers especially) occur because 1 or 2 players on the winning team are physically bigger, faster, etc than the other team. Other coaches will notice the 20-0 score and start recruiting the top players. The better option is the have the really good team pass X number of times before making a goal. This helps both teams by giving the better team more experience at passing during a game. It also helps the not as good team because they get to work on defensive skills without having goals smashed in every 2 minutes.

At the higher levels players that could score at will become less and less affective as defenders improve.

This is the whole Possession vs Direct play argument. Both can work at different times. However at the highest levels Possession tends to be the way to bring in more wins.


----------



## futboldad1

Brav520 said:


> How about one of their u-little teams deciding to win a game 25-0 in so cal league this year
> 
> can’t confirm because no scores posted , but did hear that one a couple weeks back


25-0......whoa that is super awkward for all involved.....coach needed to do something to at least keep it below 20 like a pass limit, headers only or even if it meant ending the game early and I would be a bit embarrassed to be a parent on the winning team there......I think it can be hard to keep scores down when one team is much better than the other but 25 is really rough especially for u-littles and I'd be sad if it were my kid out there..... for older teams losing or winning double digits is what it is.....


----------



## Brav520

futboldad1 said:


> 25-0......whoa that is super awkward for all involved.....coach needed to do something to at least keep it below 20 like a pass limit, headers only or even if it meant ending the game early and I would be a bit embarrassed to be a parent on the winning team there......I think it can be hard to keep scores down when one team is much better than the other but 25 is really rough especially for u-littles and I'd be sad if it were my kid out there..... for older teams losing or winning double digits is what it is.....


ive Heard one angle of the story, I do know there was some extracurriculars going on between the coaches , but barring the other coach sleeping with his significant other I can’t see any excuse of going beyond double digits at the ulittle level


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## Fortheloveofsoccer

We're not at Surf but my this was the first year my daughter played Varsity and she comes home after every game with swollen ankles, bruises on her feet and back of ankle. The girls afren't doing it on purpose they are just not very skilled. The problem is her club doesn't really offer a non highschool option. Any advice on what she can do if not playaing HS next year? I know she can train but going months without playng games doesn't sound fun or smart.


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## Ellejustus

Fortheloveofsoccer said:


> We're not at Surf but my this was the first year my daughter played Varsity and she comes home after every game with swollen ankles, bruises on her feet and back of ankle. The girls afren't doing it on purpose they are just not very skilled. The problem is her club doesn't really offer a non highschool option. Any advice on what she can do if not playaing HS next year? I know she can train but going months without playng games doesn't sound fun or smart.


Welcome to Girls HSS bro.  Rugby soccer is what I call it and some bumper car as well.  I have watched four years and I have no fingernails left or a voice box.  I blame CIF, the Refs and the clubs with Docs that hate HSS instead of trying to fix it.  I blame it on the rain too....lol!.  In all seriousness, if dad, club, CIF, HSS AD, HSS coach, AYSO, Community leaders, Doc, Club coach, College  & US Soccer would all come together ((with a few players & parents who have experience as well)), they could make HSS amazing and local and something fun for all the girls.  I will write to CIF after the season is over to give them MOO!!!.  We lost 5 starters to injuries already and they put little LB in D1 this year.  Serious, who makes that call?  I will find out for sure.  We are all curious.  Refs have been way below average this year.  In fact, one head ref walked the whole game and told my dd to calm down and warned her for being chirpy with him.  One player got a concussion, another player from other team got a bloody nose.  This was in first 10 minutes. She is captain and is allowed to voice her concerns for the safety of the girls and so do the parents.  Girls dont mess around and if ref does not call dangerous fouls early, then black and blue will be the colors our daughters will have when they get home.  It's insane and needs to stop or else.  I do NOT recommend any top top player like RT, OM, MP or AT or any future YNT players to play HSS until this gets regulated and refs pull red cards before yellow cards to send a clear message with girls who thought they sign up for Austrian Style Soccer Rugby.  This is a sport we created.  Imagine how awesome local HSS could be if we all come together to help the girls have a break and some fun


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## Ellejustus

For The Love Of Soccer, why are girls allowed to play through a play and knock player on her back after they get juked?  That is what scares me every time in HSS.  The ref thinks it's ok to shove, pull hair, kick shins whenever they want ((one ref says that why they have shin guards)), shove player to the ground after a swing and mess and knock player into the sidelines.  I begged my dd to skip this year because we got moved up to D1 and I didnt want her to get seriously injured.  900 students going up against Los Al?  I love choice and give it to my dd all the time.  I saw how dangerous girls soccer is when she was a Freshman and are #1 player, the great RT had to stop because it was almost criminal the hacking they did.  My dd kind of likes to battle the other girls at the schools and that's fun for her in one sense but not for me.  I scared when she plays, I wont lie   I dont like the word "awful."  I prefer dangerous but I am open to calling it awful if no one steps up and fixes this danger.   Look, I defended HSS before I knew what it was all about so please give me a Mulligan.  Today, I have four years of watching Girls Varsity Soccer and it needs fixing.....


----------



## outside!

Ellejustus said:


> For The Love Of Soccer, why are girls allowed to play through a play and knock player on her back after they get juked?  That is what scares me every time in HSS.  The ref thinks it's ok to shove, pull hair, kick shins whenever they want ((one ref says that why they have shin guards)), shove player to the ground after a swing and mess and knock player into the sidelines.  I begged my dd to skip this year because we got moved up to D1 and I didnt want her to get seriously injured.  900 students going up against Los Al?  I love choice and give it to my dd all the time.  I saw how dangerous girls soccer is when she was a Freshman and are #1 player, the great RT had to stop because it was almost criminal the hacking they did.  My dd kind of likes to battle the other girls at the schools and that's fun for her in one sense but not for me.  I scared when she plays, I wont lie   I dont like the word "awful."  I prefer dangerous but I am open to calling it awful if no one steps up and fixes this danger.   Look, I defended HSS before I knew what it was all about so please give me a Mulligan.  Today, I have four years of watching Girls Varsity Soccer and it needs fixing.....


Record the games, send video of bad refs to the assignors via the coach or team manager.


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## RJonesUSC

outside! said:


> Record the games, send video of bad refs to the assignors via the coach or team manager.


I wish I had done that this season.  The play has been so aggressive with obvious intent to hurt and the referees have been non-directly encouraging it with their lack of game control.  I don't usually pick on refs as I'm one myself but this season seems to have gotten to a low I've never witnessed before.  At this rate (girls going on out crutches, having to get x-rays, being carted off in an ambulance, etc.), I doubt of the higher level players will be coming back next year.  It's a shame.


----------



## Ellejustus

RJonesUSC said:


> I wish I had done that this season.  The play has been so aggressive with obvious intent to hurt and the referees have been non-directly encouraging it with their lack of game control.  I don't usually pick on refs as I'm one myself but this season seems to have gotten to a low I've never witnessed before.  At this rate (girls going on out crutches, having to get x-rays, being carted off in an ambulance, etc.), I doubt of the higher level players will be coming back next year.  It's a shame.


100% agree.  My dd likes the smack talk but not the elbows, kicks to shin, pushes in the back to name a few.  She comes home bloody, blue and black.  Bruises all over her. I have the videos.  Abusive sport and refs make no calls.  Dear Universe, please protect the players and help refs give yellow and then Reds.  Amen.  This year is the wrost. Look, if someone smacks my dd, she will defend herself.  Smack talk all you want, but dont go kung Foo or roller derby on anyone.  This is cleary insane and whacked.  I new my eye saw they saw.


----------



## GoldenGate

Ellejustus said:


> For The Love Of Soccer, why are girls allowed to play through a play and knock player on her back after they get juked?  That is what scares me every time in HSS.  The ref thinks it's ok to shove, pull hair, kick shins whenever they want ((one ref says that why they have shin guards)), shove player to the ground after a swing and mess and knock player into the sidelines.  I begged my dd to skip this year because we got moved up to D1 and I didnt want her to get seriously injured.  900 students going up against Los Al?  I love choice and give it to my dd all the time.  I saw how dangerous girls soccer is when she was a Freshman and are #1 player, the great RT had to stop because it was almost criminal the hacking they did.  My dd kind of likes to battle the other girls at the schools and that's fun for her in one sense but not for me.  I scared when she plays, I wont lie   I dont like the word "awful."  I prefer dangerous but I am open to calling it awful if no one steps up and fixes this danger.   Look, I defended HSS before I knew what it was all about so please give me a Mulligan.  Today, I have four years of watching Girls Varsity Soccer and it needs fixing.....


This doesn't happen in elite "pay to play" club soccer.  It's almost like you get what you pay for.


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> For The Love Of Soccer, why are girls allowed to play through a play and knock player on her back after they get juked?  That is what scares me every time in HSS.  The ref thinks it's ok to shove, pull hair, kick shins whenever they want ((one ref says that why they have shin guards)), shove player to the ground after a swing and mess and knock player into the sidelines.  I begged my dd to skip this year because we got moved up to D1 and I didnt want her to get seriously injured.  900 students going up against Los Al?  I love choice and give it to my dd all the time.  I saw how dangerous girls soccer is when she was a Freshman and are #1 player, the great RT had to stop because it was almost criminal the hacking they did.  My dd kind of likes to battle the other girls at the schools and that's fun for her in one sense but not for me.  I scared when she plays, I wont lie   I dont like the word "awful."  I prefer dangerous but I am open to calling it awful if no one steps up and fixes this danger.   Look, I defended HSS before I knew what it was all about so please give me a Mulligan.  Today, I have four years of watching Girls Varsity Soccer and it needs fixing.....


I told my little self that I bet I get some love from futbul dad....lol.  Love you man and this has been a long few years.  I also 100% knew that GG would have something to say.  OK everyone, I was wrong about HSS.  I tried to be 100% behind what my dd wanted and I gave her all my love & support. However, that doesn't allow me to lie to you all and say how safe it is out there and how kickball is not being played.  Kick the shins is the new game. I was wrong fellas.  It's super dangerous right now and I cannot advise it.  If you kid wants to play hss, try and talk her out of it.  If she begs, then warn her and tell her to sleep on it.  If she begs again, let her to what she wants but warn her how dangerous it is.  When I'm wrong about something,  I will admit my wrongs, when I'm wrong and I was wrong about HSS and it worse then last year. I still think the girls should have a choice and dad should support her choice.  I still think if people put egos aside they could make HSS betteR.


----------



## GoldenGate

Ellejustus said:


> I told my little self that I bet I get some love from futbul dad....lol.  Love you man and this has been a long few years.  I also 100% knew that GG would have something to say.  OK everyone, I was wrong about HSS.  I tried to be 100% behind what my dd wanted and I gave her all my love & support. However, that doesn't allow me to lie to you all and say how safe it is out there and how kickball is not being played.  Kick the shins is the new game. I was wrong fellas.  It's super dangerous right now and I cannot advise it.  If you kid wants to play hss, try and talk her out of it.  If she begs, then warn her and tell her to sleep on it.  If she begs again, let her to what she wants but warn her how dangerous it is.  When I'm wrong about something,  I will admit my wrongs, when I'm wrong and I was wrong about HSS and it worse then last year. I still think the girls should have a choice and dad should support her choice.  I still think if people put egos aside they could make HSS betteR.


It will all be over soon.  In a few short months, she'll be a "professional" soccer player and this will be in the rearview mirror.


----------



## LouSag

Ellejustus said:


> For The Love Of Soccer, why are girls allowed to play through a play and knock player on her back after they get juked?  That is what scares me every time in HSS.  The ref thinks it's ok to shove, pull hair, kick shins whenever they want ((one ref says that why they have shin guards)), shove player to the ground after a swing and mess and knock player into the sidelines.  I begged my dd to skip this year because we got moved up to D1 and I didnt want her to get seriously injured.  900 students going up against Los Al?  I love choice and give it to my dd all the time.  I saw how dangerous girls soccer is when she was a Freshman and are #1 player, the great RT had to stop because it was almost criminal the hacking they did.  My dd kind of likes to battle the other girls at the schools and that's fun for her in one sense but not for me.  I scared when she plays, I wont lie   I dont like the word "awful."  I prefer dangerous but I am open to calling it awful if no one steps up and fixes this danger.   Look, I defended HSS before I knew what it was all about so please give me a Mulligan.  Today, I have four years of watching Girls Varsity Soccer and it needs fixing.....


“You lovin’ me now Jerry”….standing by “awful” in my Description of HSS quality and referees.  These referees never played the game. They have no clue.


----------



## dad4

GoldenGate said:


> This doesn't happen in elite "pay to play" club soccer.  It's almost like you get what you pay for.


Yeah, no concussions or ACL tears on club teams.  

Certainly no club ever carries 20-24 kids on the roster because they know they'll have 4-8 kids injured over the season.

It's a problem across the board.  And higher levels have more injuries, not less.  You can't escape it by paying more money.


----------



## Ellejustus

LouSag said:


> “You lovin’ me now Jerry”….standing by “awful” in my Description of HSS quality and referees.  These referees never played the game. They have no clue.


I stand corrected Lou and sorry for harsh judgement on the word "awful."  I judge myself the hardest byw.  I did think the FV crew today did the best job of the games this year.  Head ref was in charge and pulled two yellows.  No need for a red and the girls played under control for the most part.  I felt better with HSS today.  I think if head refs tell the ladies to knock it off and no rugby, the game can be saved,


----------



## Ellejustus

outside! said:


> Record the games, send video of bad refs to the assignors via the coach or team manager.


It won't matter.  Last year my dd got pushed from behind after a juke and broke a bone after she fell in a gopher hole.  The girls got kicked off the football field because they were girls and we had to play our game at Gopher Field.  My kid emailed their AD on her own on the way to ER and guess what the adults said?  Take a guess bro.  My dd sent this to me last night.  To walk in the light and not be a hypocrite, my dd fouled a few players as well, but not at the shins ((that I'm aware of)).  HSS is super physical and can prepare your player for college ball.  I went to a few local games you guys and let me to you, I saw some black, blue, purple and red from my pal's dd after her Big West matchup.  College ball is not for the faint of heart and I do believe in one sense, that HSS can prepare your dd for the next level.


----------



## Kicker 2.0

Ellejustus said:


> I stand corrected Lou and sorry for harsh judgement on the word "awful."  I judge myself the hardest byw.  I did think the FV crew today did the best job of the games this year.  Head ref was in charge and pulled two yellows.  No need for a red and the girls played under control for the most part.  I felt better with HSS today.  I think if head refs tell the ladies to knock it off and no rugby, the game can be saved,


It’s almost like GDA was onto something with their no high school rule……


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker 2.0 said:


> *It’s almost like GDA was onto something with their no high school rule……*


No, I disagree.  The mandate that "no girls can play hss" was stupid and one of the reasons that league failed, but not the main one.  The GDA didn;t stick to their mandates or their word, just like all the actors we are seeing today.  Rules for thee but not for my dd because I run things around here and I get what I want for my kids.  The rub on me is that the GDA made a last minute waiver change after my kid and other kids made the tough decision to walk away from glory and play dangerous HSS.  They did this for the rich parents who have kids at the private schools that would like their cake and ice cream and also waivers for those who got full rides to go to the private HS, because those girls really wanted to play hs soccer at their hs school, just like my dd and your dds.  The GDA should have given the girls a both and, not an either or decision.   If the GDA stuck to their mandates and forced all the girls to only play in their league, well then, I say nothing except the same thing, you will fail.  Plus all the pay to play politics and kick backs ruined them forever.  Like I said Kicker, if the adults would come together instead forcing either or decisions on girls, then we can have bliss!!!


----------



## Kicker 2.0

Ellejustus said:


> No, I disagree.  The mandate that "no girls can play hss" was stupid and one of the reasons that league failed, but not the main one.  The GDA didn;t stick to their mandates or their word, just like all the actors we are seeing today.  Rules for thee but not for my dd because I run things around here and I get what I want for my kids.  The rub on me is that the GDA made a last minute waiver change after my kid and other kids made the tough decision to walk away from glory and play dangerous HSS.  They did this for the rich parents who have kids at the private schools that would like their cake and ice cream and also waivers for those who got full rides to go to the private HS, because those girls really wanted to play hs soccer at their hs school, just like my dd and your dds.  The GDA should have given the girls a both and, not an either or decision.   If the GDA stuck to their mandates and forced all the girls to only play in their league, well then, I say nothing except the same thing, you will fail.  Plus all the pay to play politics and kick backs ruined them forever.  Like I said Kicker, if the adults would come together instead forcing either or decisions on girls, then we can have bliss!!!


Factually inaccurate but ok….


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker 2.0 said:


> Factually inaccurate but ok….


I know you to be the forum fact checker and nothing I say on here hit you like others I know.  I will be leaving tomorrow for good.  I know I keep saying it but I truly this time.  Tomorrow is signing day 2/2/22.  Peace out Kicker and keep up the fact checking for youth soccer.


----------



## GoldenGate

dad4 said:


> Yeah, no concussions or ACL tears on club teams.
> 
> Certainly no club ever carries 20-24 kids on the roster because they know they'll have 4-8 kids injured over the season.
> 
> It's a problem across the board.  And higher levels have more injuries, not less.  You can't escape it by paying more money.


This is the perfect stupid soccer parent post.  Instead of accepting the particular risks associated with HS vs. elite club soccer, people like you and crushypoo lump everything into "it's all the same, so I'm going to complain about how all kiddie soccer is unfair instead of accepting reality and taking responsibility myself for mitigating those risks".  It's hysterical that people like you and crushypoo refuse to accept reality and instead whine about how HS and club soccer aren't the rainbow paradise you want them to be.  You spend your time miserable and squander it videotaping refs instead of taking appropriate steps to mitigate known risks and otherwise enjoying something that is going to be over before you know it. 

It's a fact that there are injury risks peculiar to HS.  They include dangerous play and increased ACL or other repetitive use injury if a coach is riding your kid hard to win stupid HS soccer games.  Instead of whining about how HS needs to change - which is impossible - you should be taking obvious action to reduce risk.  If your kid's HS league is unacceptably and unavoidably dangerous, she shouldn't play.  If it isn't that bad, you still know there are certain players on other teams who will be dangerous and you should make sure your kid and coach take appropriate steps to address it in advance, especially since you already know who it's going to be. They're the kids who aren't good enough to play high level soccer, but are good enough athletes to care and also cause harm.  They have the dad who scours MaxPreps to see who scores goals and tells their kid she needs to stop tour kid at all costs.  Honestly, if your kid is a unicorn you should never, ever list stats on MaxPreps no matter how much your self-esteem depends on your daughter's soccer prowess being displayed prominently on the Internet.  Also, instead of you and the coach screaming bloody murder during games about something you knew with 99% certainty would happen even before the game started, which only makes things worse, you should have asked your kid's HS coach to have a polite and non-confrontational conversation with the refs before the game to hopefully avoid the issue in advance.  And if that didn't work, the coach should have pulled your kid from the game if she was being targeted, because no HS soccer game is worth getting hurt.  If dangerous play happened in the first half, the coach should pull the kid until halftime and then have a polite conversation with the ref at the half about it, and then maybe tried again in the second half and pulled her again if it wasn't better.  Also, your kid's HS coach should never play your unicorn kid tons of minutes.  Get them in and out against crap teams, and give them breaks against even the good ones even if it means they will probably lose; HS games are not important compared to your kid's health.  These all should have been ground rules you as a parent set before the season started and, if the shitty HS coach wasn't accepting, you knew what to do.  It all boils down to you taking responsibility for  an imperfect situation instead of acting surprised and offended when, gasp, it turns out to be imperfect.

As for you and crushypoo whining about elite clubs carrying 20-24 kids, that's just more poor parenting from your end and refusal to understand the obvious risks that are most peculiar to elite club soccer.  The earlier posts about carrying 16 kids are an absolute joke.  No girls should be regularly playing 90 minute games, and you should be talking to your coach if that is happening to yours. You know club will require playing games on consecutive days.  You know that girls are always going to be hurt.  If you have a team with 16 kids, at least two will usually be out, which means too many kids being playing too many minutes in too little time out of necessity.  But none of you give a shit about any of that, because your mindset it that winning as many kiddie soccer games as possible is important, so you absolve yourself of your duty as a parent to protect your kid and just blame other people when you got exactly what you wanted right up until it caused your kid to get hurt.  Honestly, it is nuts that you're whining about both large rosters and increased ACL injury risk in club in the same post, given that larger rosters significantly reduce that risk. It is nuts that someone like crushypoo thinks that winning kiddie "national championships" (which are fake bs btw) is a priority, when everything about chasing that stupid dream requires taking unnecessary injury risks for your kid.  And for what?  The self-esteem boost one gets as a parent because a 13 year old won a soccer game?


----------



## GoldenGate

Ellejustus said:


> No, I disagree.  The mandate that "no girls can play hss" was stupid and one of the reasons that league failed, but not the main one.  The GDA didn;t stick to their mandates or their word, just like all the actors we are seeing today.  Rules for thee but not for my dd because I run things around here and I get what I want for my kids.  The rub on me is that the GDA made a last minute waiver change after my kid and other kids made the tough decision to walk away from glory and play dangerous HSS.  They did this for the rich parents who have kids at the private schools that would like their cake and ice cream and also waivers for those who got full rides to go to the private HS, because those girls really wanted to play hs soccer at their hs school, just like my dd and your dds.  The GDA should have given the girls a both and, not an either or decision.   If the GDA stuck to their mandates and forced all the girls to only play in their league, well then, I say nothing except the same thing, you will fail.  Plus all the pay to play politics and kick backs ruined them forever.  Like I said Kicker, if the adults would come together instead forcing either or decisions on girls, then we can have bliss!!!


Poor children in America should all have access to the best possible soccer training for free!  Forget affordable healthcare.  Forget affordable education.  Forget affordable housing.  Kiddie soccer is the thing that needs to be subsidized.  Not kiddie equestrian, or kiddie basketball, or kiddie robotics, or kiddie music and theater.  Soccer is the one thing that needs to be free of charge.  I mean, women's soccer provides a comfortable living for like 10 women in the world.  I can't imagine a better use of money and resources to benefit the girls of America.


----------



## Kicker 2.0

Ellejustus said:


> I know you to be the forum fact checker and nothing I say on here hit you like others I know.  I will be leaving tomorrow for good.  I know I keep saying it but I truly this time.  Tomorrow is signing day 2/2/22.  Peace out Kicker and keep up the fact checking for youth soccer.


Then I’ll take the time now to congratulate your DD on going to play overseas.  I’m sure it was/is a huge sacrifice for the family but one that will pay off.


----------



## dad4

GoldenGate said:


> This is the perfect stupid soccer parent post.  Instead of accepting the particular risks associated with HS vs. elite club soccer, people like you and crushypoo lump everything into "it's all the same, so I'm going to complain about how all kiddie soccer is unfair instead of accepting reality and taking responsibility myself for mitigating those risks".  It's hysterical that people like you and crushypoo refuse to accept reality and instead whine about how HS and club soccer aren't the rainbow paradise you want them to be.  You spend your time miserable and squander it videotaping refs instead of taking appropriate steps to mitigate known risks and otherwise enjoying something that is going to be over before you know it.
> 
> It's a fact that there are injury risks peculiar to HS.  They include dangerous play and increased ACL or other repetitive use injury if a coach is riding your kid hard to win stupid HS soccer games.  Instead of whining about how HS needs to change - which is impossible - you should be taking obvious action to reduce risk.  If your kid's HS league is unacceptably and unavoidably dangerous, she shouldn't play.  If it isn't that bad, you still know there are certain players on other teams who will be dangerous and you should make sure your kid and coach take appropriate steps to address it in advance, especially since you already know who it's going to be. They're the kids who aren't good enough to play high level soccer, but are good enough athletes to care and also cause harm.  They have the dad who scours MaxPreps to see who scores goals and tells their kid she needs to stop tour kid at all costs.  Honestly, if your kid is a unicorn you should never, ever list stats on MaxPreps no matter how much your self-esteem depends on your daughter's soccer prowess being displayed prominently on the Internet.  Also, instead of you and the coach screaming bloody murder during games about something you knew with 99% certainty would happen even before the game started, which only makes things worse, you should have asked your kid's HS coach to have a polite and non-confrontational conversation with the refs before the game to hopefully avoid the issue in advance.  And if that didn't work, the coach should have pulled your kid from the game if she was being targeted, because no HS soccer game is worth getting hurt.  If dangerous play happened in the first half, the coach should pull the kid until halftime and then have a polite conversation with the ref at the half about it, and then maybe tried again in the second half and pulled her again if it wasn't better.  Also, your kid's HS coach should never play your unicorn kid tons of minutes.  Get them in and out against crap teams, and give them breaks against even the good ones even if it means they will probably lose; HS games are not important compared to your kid's health.  These all should have been ground rules you as a parent set before the season started and, if the shitty HS coach wasn't accepting, you knew what to do.  It all boils down to you taking responsibility for  an imperfect situation instead of acting surprised and offended when, gasp, it turns out to be imperfect.
> 
> As for you and crushypoo whining about elite clubs carrying 20-24 kids, that's just more poor parenting from your end and refusal to understand the obvious risks that are most peculiar to elite club soccer.  The earlier posts about carrying 16 kids are an absolute joke.  No girls should be regularly playing 90 minute games, and you should be talking to your coach if that is happening to yours. You know club will require playing games on consecutive days.  You know that girls are always going to be hurt.  If you have a team with 16 kids, at least two will usually be out, which means too many kids being playing too many minutes in too little time out of necessity.  But none of you give a shit about any of that, because your mindset it that winning as many kiddie soccer games as possible is important, so you absolve yourself of your duty as a parent to protect your kid and just blame other people when you got exactly what you wanted right up until it caused your kid to get hurt.  Honestly, it is nuts that you're whining about both large rosters and increased ACL injury risk in club in the same post, given that larger rosters significantly reduce that risk. It is nuts that someone like crushypoo thinks that winning kiddie "national championships" (which are fake bs btw) is a priority, when everything about chasing that stupid dream requires taking unnecessary injury risks for your kid.  And for what?  The self-esteem boost one gets as a parent because a 13 year old won a soccer game?


Lead with the insult again?  It’s an old trick.  Accuse the other person of being stupid; maybe he’ll believe you and become so full of self doubt that he concedes.

In this case, the length of your word spam says it all.  You don’t have an argument.  If you did, you’d express it clearly and succinctly.

Instead, you ramble forever to hide the weakness of your claims.  You started off by claiming that club soccer has fewer injuries.  Then you went on to say that high school coaches ride their players hard trying to win games, implying that club coaches do not.  

Not buying it, even if you come up with a derogatory nickname for me.  You want to claim that pay to play soccer has a low injury rate?  Great.  Name the club, and list the last 5 years of hospital visits.


----------



## espola

GoldenGate said:


> Poor children in America should all have access to the best possible soccer training for free!  Forget affordable healthcare.  Forget affordable education.  Forget affordable housing.  Kiddie soccer is the thing that needs to be subsidized.  Not kiddie equestrian, or kiddie basketball, or kiddie robotics, or kiddie music and theater.  Soccer is the one thing that needs to be free of charge.  I mean, women's soccer provides a comfortable living for like 10 women in the world.  I can't imagine a better use of money and resources to benefit the girls of America.


When I was on the board of our little local club, our scholarship policy had two elements -- rec soccer was free for anyone who wanted it, no questions asked (normally around $100), and scholarships for the competitive program were available upon application and review of a committee subject to the funds available (mostly proceeds from our tournaments).  In addition to that I know of instances where coaches paid the fees themselves for players they wanted to keep, and more than one instance where parents of other players on the team paid the fees for their kids' friends whose parents were otherwise in no position to pay the club fees and travel expenses.  I gave some of those kids rides to distant events and bought them meals as I would have for any of my kids' friends.


----------



## GoldenGate

dad4 said:


> Lead with the insult again?  It’s an old trick.  Accuse the other person of being stupid; maybe he’ll believe you and become so full of self doubt that he concedes.
> 
> In this case, the length of your word spam says it all.  You don’t have an argument.  If you did, you’d express it clearly and succinctly.
> 
> Instead, you ramble forever to hide the weakness of your claims.  You started off by claiming that club soccer has fewer injuries.  Then you went on to say that high school coaches ride their players hard trying to win games, implying that club coaches do not.
> 
> Not buying it, even if you come up with a derogatory nickname for me.  You want to claim that pay to play soccer has a low injury rate?  Great.  Name the club, and list the last 5 years of hospital visits.


Let me summarize for you.  Take responsibility for your child's welfare instead of blaming everyone else for your failure to do so.


----------



## GoldenGate

Ellejustus said:


> I know you to be the forum fact checker and nothing I say on here hit you like others I know.  I will be leaving tomorrow for good.  I know I keep saying it but I truly this time.  Tomorrow is signing day 2/2/22.  Peace out Kicker and keep up the fact checking for youth soccer.


Sure.


----------



## dad4

GoldenGate said:


> Let me summarize for you.  Take responsibility for your child's welfare instead of blaming everyone else for your failure to do so.


Uh, that’s not a summary.  It’s a full retreat from your original position, coupled with a gratuitous personal attack.

Your original position was that club soccer is safe but high school soccer is dangerous.  Now you’re suggesting that club soccer is the kind of thing I need to protect my kid from.  I agree with the second statement, but not the first.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker 2.0 said:


> Then I’ll take the time now to congratulate your DD on going to play overseas.  I’m sure it was/is a huge sacrifice for the family but one that will pay off.


Thanks man.  She did it all on her own bro.  No sacrifice from us at all as family and I say that as a compliment to the person my dd has become.  She had this all planned and made it happen.  She is paving her way and I just help with the clean up.  Saved up her money from a job she has and it looks like a few sponsors will help as well to cover the rest of the trip.  No full rides for this Gap Year.  I'm proud of her 100%.  It's more for education and seeing the world then for soccer.  Soccer is vehicle to go see the world and see how the great game is played.  I really see her bringing girls soccer to Iran some day.  I know, I know, far fetched, right?  You have no idea Kicker but someday even you will become a believer.


----------



## Soccer Dad & Ref

Golden Gate seems to be speaking some harsh truths in a blunt manner.


----------



## crush

Soccer Dad & Ref said:


> Golden Gate seems to be speaking some harsh truths in a blunt manner.


I agree.  I used harsh words with my truths from the past and my tones with the truth were blunt as well.  I think we should all look to speak the truth with compassion and not with blunt force with harshness.  Top it off with with kindness ((showing empathy).  It) would be amazing for the next group of dads.  I blew it with my harshness for sure on here.  GG lays it out from a Docs point of view and that's how coach does it.  We all need Mercy Mulligans. Parents, coaches and the docs.  Kids are super innocent and need guidance.


----------



## LASTMAN14

crush said:


> I agree.  I used harsh words with my truths from the past and my tones with the truth were blunt as well.  I think we should all look to speak the truth with compassion and not with blunt force with harshness.  Top it off with with kindness ((showing empathy).  It) would be amazing for the next group of dads.  I blew it with my harshness for sure on here.  GG lays it out from a Docs point of view and that's how coach does it.  We all need Mercy Mulligans. Parents, coaches and the docs.  Kids are super innocent and need guidance.


Just a friendly reminder that your dissociative personality disorder kicked in again. Told you years ago I would remind you to take your medication and stick to one of your identities.


----------



## crush

LASTMAN14 said:


> Just a friendly reminder that your dissociative personality disorder kicked in again. Told you years ago I would remind you to take your medication and stick to one of your identities.


I took it but this is real me.  I have many virtues I'm trying to live by.  I fall and pick myself up and say sorry when needed.  I share deep from my emotions of pain and that was wrong.  I should have handled things differently and in a more respectful way.  It's all about today and how things will get better.  Good to see you back on the forum.  Missed your comments.  I want peace and fairness for all mankind, including you.  The last few years have been insane.  I am different then you and that's ok.  Peace to you and your family


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Before the start of HS soccer the DOC at Surf told several teams (the ones he was the head coach of) that if players played HS soccer he would not assist them with college recruiting and it showed a lack of commitment to the club/program.   Some parents were shocked by this, and discussed this with the club at which time the DOC denied that he had said.  Unfortunately, he was in a room full of people when he said to not play HS soccer.  The club elected to believe him and there were no repercussions for the DOC.  

I understand from another parent that as a follow up, any girls that choose to play HS were not allowed to travel to Texas with the 05 ECNL team in the last week or two as punishment for playing HS.  The '05 team had to use 06s & 07s to field a team.  

Believe me, don't believe me, I don't care.  My daughter played at Surf and was in the room when this was communicated.   If you want to know about him maybe you can ask some parents, kids and coaches that have left since he got there.  As for results, look at the '05 Surf ECNL-R team before he showed up (consistently played at a high level and won Man City last year beating 2 ECNL teams along the way) and now (middle of the road ECNLR team at best).  Massive turnover with the team and a coaching change in the middle of the season.  Buyer beware.


----------



## Soccer Dad & Ref

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Unfortunately, he was in a room full of people when he said to not play HS soccer.  The club elected to believe him and there were no repercussions for the DOC.


Shouldn't it be a good thing he said it in a room full of people? Now you have witnesses


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Soccer Dad & Ref said:


> Shouldn't it be a good thing he said it in a room full of people? Now you have witnesses


There were witnesses.  When the parents brought this up the club asked the DOC about it, and he denied saying it.  The cub decided the DOC's statement was sufficient and ALL of the parents must be lying.  They backed the DOC; many people are not sure why they did this.


----------



## oh canada

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> There were witnesses.  When the parents brought this up the club asked the DOC about it, and he denied saying it.  The cub decided the DOC's statement was sufficient and ALL of the parents must be lying.  They backed the DOC; many people are not sure why they did this.


Because Surf always does this. Most of us old timers can remember them backing a coach years ago with an obvious drug issue, as just one example. There are a couple other clubs in SD county with honest and reputable execs and coaches who truly care about their players (and allow kids to play HS without repercussion) - one GA club to the north of Surf and an ECNL club to the far south. Though I don't have personal experience with either, I've heard plenty of good things about both.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

oh canada said:


> There are a couple other clubs in SD county with honest and reputable execs and coaches who truly care about their players (and allow kids to play HS without repercussion) - one GA club to the north of Surf and an ECNL club to the far south. Though I don't have personal experience with either, I've heard plenty of good things about both.


If the GA club you are talking about is in The Village by the Sea, my daughter played for the girls DOC, and he was a large reason she left for greener pastures.  If you think they are a good club, so be it.  We had personal experience with the club and had a different experience than what you indicated (as did a lot of keepers as their evidence on rosters of other clubs).


----------



## GoldenGate

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Before the start of HS soccer the DOC at Surf told several teams (the ones he was the head coach of) that if players played HS soccer he would not assist them with college recruiting and it showed a lack of commitment to the club/program.   Some parents were shocked by this, and discussed this with the club at which time the DOC denied that he had said.  Unfortunately, he was in a room full of people when he said to not play HS soccer.  The club elected to believe him and there were no repercussions for the DOC.
> 
> I understand from another parent that as a follow up, any girls that choose to play HS were not allowed to travel to Texas with the 05 ECNL team in the last week or two as punishment for playing HS.  The '05 team had to use 06s & 07s to field a team.
> 
> Believe me, don't believe me, I don't care.  My daughter played at Surf and was in the room when this was communicated.   If you want to know about him maybe you can ask some parents, kids and coaches that have left since he got there.  As for results, look at the '05 Surf ECNL-R team before he showed up (consistently played at a high level and won Man City last year beating 2 ECNL teams along the way) and now (middle of the road ECNLR team at best).  Massive turnover with the team and a coaching change in the middle of the season.  Buyer beware.


Deza communicated his expectations seven months ago, clearly telling everyone he discouraged HS, playing HS would get in the way of his ability to get their child recruited, and kids ran the risk of getting passed over by other more committed kids. Go figure, that is exactly what happened.

Of course he isn't taking kids who played HS to the ECNL showcase.  They inevitably picked up bad habits that takes more than a couple weeks to unlearn, their timing is way off with their teammates.  It's hard and takes time to reincorporate kids into his system within a couple weeks when they've been gone playing boot ball for three months.  Most kids come back from HS soccer banged up and worn out because they were often overworked on their HS teams, especially if they did well, which means an increased risk of injury at the showcase.  He also needs to make decisions about who will and won't go weeks in advance because it isn't fair to lead kids on who were committed to his process and did what he asked, only to tell them never mind because your daughter who lacks the same level of commitment rolled in last week expecting all the benefits without any of the obligations, and pretending what he said seven months ago didn't happen.  He also doesn't need kids who may not be ready to get back to playing his system screwing things up for the others who are trying to get recruited.  In his opinion, its better to bring up a younger player whom he knows will make the right passes, be in the right positions, and do what he wants than the kid who just missed three months dribbling too much, passing too little, and whose timing is way off because she hasn't played with her teammates in months. 

When you say he told kids he would not help them get recruited if they played HS, you are just lying.  He did say it would get in the way of that, and that is exactly what happened.  Those kids missed the ECNL showcase because they weren't as committed as the others, and he didn't want to have to deal with uncertainty about who would and wouldn't be ready to play when they came back from HS, or even when they would be back to start training again.  If a kid chose HS, that was their decision and good for them, but claiming that a kid who played HS deserves a spot on the ECNL roster a few weeks after missing almost three months over kids who prioritized club over HS is just selfish clueless bs.  And, honestly, the kids who played HS deserved punishment.

Life is about choices.  He gave everyone options, he communicated to what would happen if they picked HS, and they chose HS over maximizing their kid's ability to get recruited for college.  Why are you so mad? Why do you think a kid who was not as committed to club should get selected for the showcase over someone who was?


----------



## oh canada

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> If the GA club you are talking about is in The Village by the Sea, my daughter played for the girls DOC, and he was a large reason she left for greener pastures.  If you think they are a good club, so be it.  We had personal experience with the club and had a different experience than what you indicated (as did a lot of keepers as their evidence on rosters of other clubs).


Noted. Wish your daughter the best.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

GoldenGate said:


> Deza communicated his expectations seven months ago, clearly telling everyone he discouraged HS, playing HS would get in the way of his ability to get their child recruited, and kids ran the risk of getting passed over by other more committed kids. Go figure, that is exactly what happened.
> 
> Of course he isn't taking kids who played HS to the ECNL showcase.  They inevitably picked up bad habits that takes more than a couple weeks to unlearn, their timing is way off with their teammates.  It's hard and takes time to reincorporate kids into his system within a couple weeks when they've been gone playing boot ball for three months.  Most kids come back from HS soccer banged up and worn out because they were often overworked on their HS teams, especially if they did well, which means an increased risk of injury at the showcase.  He also needs to make decisions about who will and won't go weeks in advance because it isn't fair to lead kids on who were committed to his process and did what he asked, only to tell them never mind because your daughter who lacks the same level of commitment rolled in last week expecting all the benefits without any of the obligations, and pretending what he said seven months ago didn't happen.  He also doesn't need kids who may not be ready to get back to playing his system screwing things up for the others who are trying to get recruited.  In his opinion, its better to bring up a younger player whom he knows will make the right passes, be in the right positions, and do what he wants than the kid who just missed three months dribbling too much, passing too little, and whose timing is way off because she hasn't played with her teammates in months.
> 
> When you say he told kids he would not help them get recruited if they played HS, you are just lying.  He did say it would get in the way of that, and that is exactly what happened.  Those kids missed the ECNL showcase because they weren't as committed as the others, and he didn't want to have to deal with uncertainty about who would and wouldn't be ready to play when they came back from HS, or even when they would be back to start training again.  If a kid chose HS, that was their decision and good for them, but claiming that a kid who played HS deserves a spot on the ECNL roster a few weeks after missing almost three months over kids who prioritized club over HS is just selfish clueless bs.  And, honestly, the kids who played HS deserved punishment.
> 
> Life is about choices.  He gave everyone options, he communicated to what would happen if they picked HS, and they chose HS over maximizing their kid's ability to get recruited for college.  Why are you so mad? Why do you think a kid who was not as committed to club should get selected for the showcase over someone who was?


Knew you would chime in.  2 things - 1) didn't waste time reading your post.  2) - go f yourself.


----------



## oh canada

GoldenGate said:


> Deza communicated his expectations seven months ago, clearly telling everyone he discouraged HS, playing HS would get in the way of his ability to get their child recruited, and kids ran the risk of getting passed over by other more committed kids. Go figure, that is exactly what happened.
> 
> Of course he isn't taking kids who played HS to the ECNL showcase.  They inevitably picked up bad habits that takes more than a couple weeks to unlearn, their timing is way off with their teammates.  It's hard and takes time to reincorporate kids into his system within a couple weeks when they've been gone playing boot ball for three months.  Most kids come back from HS soccer banged up and worn out because they were often overworked on their HS teams, especially if they did well, which means an increased risk of injury at the showcase.  He also needs to make decisions about who will and won't go weeks in advance because it isn't fair to lead kids on who were committed to his process and did what he asked, only to tell them never mind because your daughter who lacks the same level of commitment rolled in last week expecting all the benefits without any of the obligations, and pretending what he said seven months ago didn't happen.  He also doesn't need kids who may not be ready to get back to playing his system screwing things up for the others who are trying to get recruited.  In his opinion, its better to bring up a younger player whom he knows will make the right passes, be in the right positions, and do what he wants than the kid who just missed three months dribbling too much, passing too little, and whose timing is way off because she hasn't played with her teammates in months.
> 
> When you say he told kids he would not help them get recruited if they played HS, you are just lying.  He did say it would get in the way of that, and that is exactly what happened.  Those kids missed the ECNL showcase because they weren't as committed as the others, and he didn't want to have to deal with uncertainty about who would and wouldn't be ready to play when they came back from HS, or even when they would be back to start training again.  If a kid chose HS, that was their decision and good for them, but claiming that a kid who played HS deserves a spot on the ECNL roster a few weeks after missing almost three months over kids who prioritized club over HS is just selfish clueless bs.  And, honestly, the kids who played HS deserved punishment.
> 
> Life is about choices.  He gave everyone options, he communicated to what would happen if they picked HS, and they chose HS over maximizing their kid's ability to get recruited for college.  Why are you so mad? Why do you think a kid who was not as committed to club should get selected for the showcase over someone who was?


Eratosthenes: "The world is round."
Golden Gate: "No, it's flat, you stupid as+hole."

Zelensky: "We are not Nazi's, I'm actually Jewish, in fact."
Golden Gate: "No, you're not Jewish, you stupid di*k."
Putin: "I like this guy Golden Gate."

Carli Lloyd: "The USWNT was a toxic culture my last few years on the team."
Golden Gate: "No, it wasn't you stupid bi**h. I have personal knowledge of the entire situation and let me spend the next thirty minutes writing five run-on paragraphs about why I'm right and you're wrong."

Golden Gate (while looking in the mirror): "You are smart. You are intelligent. You are smart. You are intelligent. You are smart..."

#ignorebutton


----------



## GoldenGate

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Knew you would chime in.  2 things - 1) didn't waste time reading your post.  2) - go f yourself.


Yes, when people say stupid things, I tend to show up. 

Why are you upset about someone who is trying to get kids into college when that isn't even your kid's path?  He makes it clear to everyone that his job,  his value proposition, is to help approximately 18 kids a year maximize their college potential.  When you don't do what he wants, it not only negatively impacts the kid who isn't listening, but also the ones who are.  It isn't just about you.  When a kid commits early, he still wants them to play club because that player might be able to help get exposure for the ones who aren't.  There are a hundred places your kid can play soccer, including at Surf, that don't care whether she plays in college, and aren't trying to get kids there.  You keep trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.  You're just a bitter negative fool like crush who throws tantrums when they don't get what they want regardless of how unreasonable or unrealistic.  

Deza told you his expectations and what would happen, yet here you are seven months later upset that he followed through.


----------



## GoldenGate

oh canada said:


> Eratosthenes: "The world is round."
> Golden Gate: "No, it's flat, you stupid as+hole."
> 
> Zelensky: "We are not Nazi's, I'm actually Jewish, in fact."
> Golden Gate: "No, you're not Jewish, you stupid di*k."
> Putin: "I like this guy Golden Gate."
> 
> Carli Lloyd: "The USWNT was a toxic culture my last few years on the team."
> Golden Gate: "No, it wasn't you stupid bi**h. I have personal knowledge of the entire situation and let me spend the next thirty minutes writing five run-on paragraphs about why I'm right and you're wrong."
> 
> Golden Gate (while looking in the mirror): "You are smart. You are intelligent. You are smart. You are intelligent. You are smart..."
> 
> #ignorebutton


The only thing you said that was accurate was the run on sentences that I love they are really effective at conveying the patronizing tone that I'm going for.


----------



## timmyh

If the expectations and consequences were made clear up front, then I don't see what there is to fuss about.

Families/Girls made a decision to play at Surf or not, and also to play high school or not, fully aware of the pros and cons of each pathway.

If Deza didn't do exactly what you say that he did, that would be immensely unfair to the kids who chose to forego either Surf or high school soccer when presented with the clear choices and consequences. Right?


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

timmyh said:


> If the expectations and consequences were made clear up front, then I don't see what there is to fuss about.
> 
> Families/Girls made a decision to play at Surf or not, and also to play high school or not, fully aware of the pros and cons of each pathway.
> 
> If Deza didn't do exactly what you say that he did, that would be immensely unfair to the kids who chose to forego either Surf or high school soccer when presented with the clear choices and consequences. Right?


When the club was questioned as to the official Surf attitude towards HS soccer, the parents were told by the club that Surf is supportive of the HS soccer experience and knew that it was important to a large number of girls.  The CLUB didn't have an issue with the girls playing HS and at least implied there would not be any repercussions. And of course, there were repercussions. 

I am leaving out stories of what the gentleman did to other kids as they are not my stories to tell but they are not feel good stories about him.  I know that a certain sub-set of parents will defend the Club and the DOC no matter what.  I am sharing the information now as I said earlier in this post I would when the time was right.  People are free to take their kid(s) wherever they want.  I would not bring my kid here at this time due to the culture.  Do what you want with that info.


----------



## LASTMAN14

oh canada said:


> Eratosthenes: "The world is round."
> Golden Gate: "No, it's flat, you stupid as+hole."
> 
> Zelensky: "We are not Nazi's, I'm actually Jewish, in fact."
> Golden Gate: "No, you're not Jewish, you stupid di*k."
> Putin: "I like this guy Golden Gate."
> 
> Carli Lloyd: "The USWNT was a toxic culture my last few years on the team."
> Golden Gate: "No, it wasn't you stupid bi**h. I have personal knowledge of the entire situation and let me spend the next thirty minutes writing five run-on paragraphs about why I'm right and you're wrong."
> 
> Golden Gate (while looking in the mirror): "You are smart. You are intelligent. You are smart. You are intelligent. You are smart..."
> 
> #ignorebutton


Dam, that was funny.


----------



## GoldenGate

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> When the club was questioned as to the official Surf attitude towards HS soccer, the parents were told by the club that Surf is supportive of the HS soccer experience and knew that it was important to a large number of girls.  The CLUB didn't have an issue with the girls playing HS and at least implied there would not be any repercussions. And of course, there were repercussions.
> 
> I am leaving out stories of what the gentleman did to other kids as they are not my stories to tell but they are not feel good stories about him.  I know that a certain sub-set of parents will defend the Club and the DOC no matter what.  I am sharing the information now as I said earlier in this post I would when the time was right.  People are free to take their kid(s) wherever they want.  I would not bring my kid here at this time due to the culture.  Do what you want with that info.


Now you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.  You don't get to say that the coach and DOC told you seven months ago exactly what would happen if your kid played HS, yet Surf was supportive of playing HS so therefore your kid would get priority over others who didn't.  The actual coach (and DOC) said exactly what would happen and, OMG, it did. So shocking. BTW Surf is supportive of playing HS, just not on the teams where getting recruited for college is the goal.

I love these super duper secret stories about Deza.  I'll give you one.  I once heard about a parent who complained their daughter wanted to go to a specific university, and the college coach was very interested, but Deza wouldn't recommend her there because he believed she was a bad fit.  The parents were mad as hell at him for not advocating for their kid, because they paid good money.  She ended up going there and transferred out after her freshman year. They refused to appreciate that Deza's ability to get all his recruited to the right schools depends on him not overselling or selling the wrong kids to programs, because then they lose respect.  His ability to get her recruited to the right school was earned over many years by not doing the very thing they wanted him to do now, and although he was right. He gained more respect from that coach, and he also gained more respect from other parents.

People like them and you can't see past your own nose, but think it's all about you.  You don't care that missing three months of club to play HS negatively impacts her teammates.  You also completely miss the incredibly obvious point that he tried to do you a favor by telling you that you were in the wrong place and for that reason he didn't want your money.  Instead, you ignored the warning and still stuck that fork right into light socket hoping food would come out.


----------



## timmyh

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> When the club was questioned as to the official Surf attitude towards HS soccer, the parents were told by the club that Surf is supportive of the HS soccer experience and knew that it was important to a large number of girls.


I think a club can both be supportive of the high school experience while also giving extra opportunity to those who decide to forego it in order better represent the club and support similarly-minded teammates. Those things don't seem mutually exclusive to me.

And it only seems wrong or unfair if it was not made clear up front and people were surprised by the (admittedly unusual) consequences of their decisions.


----------



## timmyh

I'll add, I assume there are several girls who took Deza at his word, weighed their options, and chose to forego high school soccer. Wouldn't it have been incredibly unfair to those girls if he was bluffing or if the club stepped in and "fixed" it?


----------



## silverback

GoldenGate said:


> Deza communicated his expectations seven months ago, clearly telling everyone he discouraged HS, playing HS would get in the way of his ability to get their child recruited, and kids ran the risk of getting passed over by other more committed kids. Go figure, that is exactly what happened.
> 
> Of course he isn't taking kids who played HS to the ECNL showcase.  They inevitably picked up bad habits that takes more than a couple weeks to unlearn, their timing is way off with their teammates.  It's hard and takes time to reincorporate kids into his system within a couple weeks when they've been gone playing boot ball for three months.  Most kids come back from HS soccer banged up and worn out because they were often overworked on their HS teams, especially if they did well, which means an increased risk of injury at the showcase.  He also needs to make decisions about who will and won't go weeks in advance because it isn't fair to lead kids on who were committed to his process and did what he asked, only to tell them never mind because your daughter who lacks the same level of commitment rolled in last week expecting all the benefits without any of the obligations, and pretending what he said seven months ago didn't happen.  He also doesn't need kids who may not be ready to get back to playing his system screwing things up for the others who are trying to get recruited.  In his opinion, its better to bring up a younger player whom he knows will make the right passes, be in the right positions, and do what he wants than the kid who just missed three months dribbling too much, passing too little, and whose timing is way off because she hasn't played with her teammates in months.
> 
> When you say he told kids he would not help them get recruited if they played HS, you are just lying.  He did say it would get in the way of that, and that is exactly what happened.  Those kids missed the ECNL showcase because they weren't as committed as the others, and he didn't want to have to deal with uncertainty about who would and wouldn't be ready to play when they came back from HS, or even when they would be back to start training again.  If a kid chose HS, that was their decision and good for them, but claiming that a kid who played HS deserves a spot on the ECNL roster a few weeks after missing almost three months over kids who prioritized club over HS is just selfish clueless bs.  And, honestly, the kids who played HS deserved punishment.
> 
> Life is about choices.  He gave everyone options, he communicated to what would happen if they picked HS, and they chose HS over maximizing their kid's ability to get recruited for college.  Why are you so mad? Why do you think a kid who was not as committed to club should get selected for the showcase over someone who was?


Bingo, hit the nail on the head


----------



## Emma

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Knew you would chime in.  2 things - 1) didn't waste time reading your post.  2) - go f yourself.


Besides the kids deserving punishment, what Golden Gate said is mostly correct.  No one should be punished for choosing high school and in this case, no one was punished.  Many of the players did choose high school soccer, including some national team players.

It would not make sense to take the kids who played high school soccer to the Texas showcase and play against tough Texas teams.  They haven't been practicing together for a few months.  The younger kids that chose to continue with the program during winter break were rewarded with playing up on the 05 team.  They did a great job.

The language was not threatening but honestly explaining what the hurdles of playing high school soccer would create.  The communication gives parents and players all the information to make an informed decision.  

I'm a big proponent of high school soccer but I didn't expect my child to play the Texas showcase because she did choose high school.  It gave other players in the club an opportunity and I support those players too.  They made a sacrifice and they earned the spot for the TX showcase.


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## oh canada

Emma said:


> Besides the kids deserving punishment, what Golden Gate said is mostly correct.  No one should be punished for choosing high school and in this case, no one was punished.  Many of the players did choose high school soccer, including some national team players.
> 
> It would not make sense to take the kids who played high school soccer to the Texas showcase and play against tough Texas teams.  They haven't been practicing together for a few months.  The younger kids that chose to continue with the program during winter break were rewarded with playing up on the 05 team.  They did a great job.
> 
> The language was not threatening but honestly explaining what the hurdles of playing high school soccer would create.  The communication gives parents and players all the information to make an informed decision.
> 
> I'm a big proponent of high school soccer but I didn't expect my child to play the Texas showcase because she did choose high school.  It gave other players in the club an opportunity and I support those players too.  They made a sacrifice and they earned the spot for the TX showcase.


Agree that it's fair to not take kids to TX ECNL who played HS instead of doing Deza practices for 3 months.

But, HS soccer should not be "discouraged" by anyone at the club. The club should remain neutral and let families and players decide. It's a veiled threat that's a bunch of BS for Deza to say "it might affect my ability to get you recruited." Really? UCLA isn't going to be interested because you played three months with your classmates? That's a self-serving statement wrapped in ego. And, "you might get passed by a kid who doesn't play HS" is another self-serving threat that's BS. 

I love all these parents who drink the club Kool Aid and criticize high school play when their kid hasn't played one minute of it. Is it an inferior product to high-level ECNL play? Sure. Do more injuries happen in HS than club? Unproven. Does your player's skill level drop off by playing and practicing at HS instead of the Polo Fields? Absolutely not. In fact, all three of my kids (boys and girl) got better from it - having to carry a team creates better players and leaders. Just ask Carli Lloyd.


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## Emma

oh canada said:


> Agree that it's fair to not take kids to TX ECNL who played HS instead of doing Deza practices for 3 months.
> 
> But, HS soccer should not be "discouraged" by anyone at the club. The club should remain neutral and let families and players decide. It's a veiled threat that's a bunch of BS for Deza to say "it might affect my ability to get you recruited." Really? UCLA isn't going to be interested because you played three months with your classmates? That's a self-serving statement wrapped in ego. And, "you might get passed by a kid who doesn't play HS" is another self-serving threat that's BS.
> 
> I love all these parents who drink the club Kool Aid and criticize high school play when their kid hasn't played one minute of it. Is it an inferior product to high-level ECNL play? Sure. Do more injuries happen in HS than club? Unproven. Does your player's skill level drop off by playing and practicing at HS instead of the Polo Fields? Absolutely not. In fact, all three of my kids (boys and girl) got better from it - having to carry a team creates better players and leaders. Just ask Carli Lloyd.


While I will continue to encourage and support my child to play high school soccer.  From watching high school soccer, I do understand the perspective he is sharing with his players.  His perspective is correct.  Playing high school does remove 3 months of good development for just fun soccer.  It does create bad habits that require undoing.  Everything Deza said is correct.  It's his observations through years of interacting with players and we pay him for his knowledge and willingness to honestly share it.   There's no kool aid or veiled threat.  He could have been lazy and take the easy way out to take 3 months off but he didn't.  He offered the girls who wanted the extra 3 months to develop and an opportunity to showcase their development.  

If your child develops better by carrying a team, then high school soccer is the right choice for your child.  If your child is a happier person for playing high school with friends, then absolutely choose high school.  

If your would rather develop soccer skills at a high level for 3 months instead, then stay for the break program and away from high school soccer.

My point is, there are no veiled threats, just informed decisions.  There is no right or wrong decision, just different paths for different people.

Carli Lloyd, while I appreciate her honesty and her point of view, may not be everyone's perspective.


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## GoldenGate

oh canada said:


> Agree that it's fair to not take kids to TX ECNL who played HS instead of doing Deza practices for 3 months.
> 
> But, HS soccer should not be "discouraged" by anyone at the club. The club should remain neutral and let families and players decide. It's a veiled threat that's a bunch of BS for Deza to say "it might affect my ability to get you recruited." Really? UCLA isn't going to be interested because you played three months with your classmates? That's a self-serving statement wrapped in ego. And, "you might get passed by a kid who doesn't play HS" is another self-serving threat that's BS.
> 
> I love all these parents who drink the club Kool Aid and criticize high school play when their kid hasn't played one minute of it. Is it an inferior product to high-level ECNL play? Sure. Do more injuries happen in HS than club? Unproven. Does your player's skill level drop off by playing and practicing at HS instead of the Polo Fields? Absolutely not. In fact, all three of my kids (boys and girl) got better from it - having to carry a team creates better players and leaders. Just ask Carli Lloyd.


It's ridiculous to say clubs should be "neutral".  They can do whatever they want and, in fact, having different options at different clubs is what makes it work. Just as many families want to play HS, many would prefer to focus on club and it helps to have as many like-minded teammates if that is going to work.  Just as GDA was stupid to tell every club that kids couldn't play HS, it's just as stupid to tell every club they shouldn't discourage it.   Why is it so important that Deza do things the way you want? He told kids that playing HS would get in the way of his ability to get them recruited, and it did. Maybe missing one showcase isn't such a big deal when you have 4 years of showcase, but all of these kids missed two years of being seen in person due to Covid.  The ill-timed changes to the recruiting rules also meant that coaches couldn't have any contact with kids until junior year, meaning many of these kids have had no contact at all with schools.  For most of these kids, their recruiting window is incredibly narrow, and they are missing a chance to be seen by 100+ coaches, especially east coast schools who aren't going to fly to CA to see league games. More importantly, their decision also impacts the ability of everyone else to get recruited too, who now need to go play with a team that's been cobbled together with backups and kids who got pulled up from younger age groups.

The irony of all of this is I'm a proponent of HS soccer.  You're an idiot who seems to think that anyone who recognizes and accepts that you can't have everything and recognizes the problems with HS must be against HS soccer. Unlike you, I also recognize what playing HS means for club teammates who are scrambling to get recruited in hard times but are running out of time.  You and keeper's mom are the type of people who get upset at Toyota because your Prius got stuck in the snow although the dealer told you not to drive it in a blizzard, and you're completely oblivious to the 50 Jeeps who are now stuck behind you.  You keep trying to choose the wrong vehicle for the wrong purpose.


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## LouSag

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> Before the start of HS soccer the DOC at Surf told several teams (the ones he was the head coach of) that if players played HS soccer he would not assist them with college recruiting and it showed a lack of commitment to the club/program.   Some parents were shocked by this, and discussed this with the club at which time the DOC denied that he had said.  Unfortunately, he was in a room full of people when he said to not play HS soccer.  The club elected to believe him and there were no repercussions for the DOC.
> 
> I understand from another parent that as a follow up, any girls that choose to play HS were not allowed to travel to Texas with the 05 ECNL team in the last week or two as punishment for playing HS.  The '05 team had to use 06s & 07s to field a team.
> 
> Believe me, don't believe me, I don't care.  My daughter played at Surf and was in the room when this was communicated.   If you want to know about him maybe you can ask some parents, kids and coaches that have left since he got there.  As for results, look at the '05 Surf ECNL-R team before he showed up (consistently played at a high level and won Man City last year beating 2 ECNL teams along the way) and now (middle of the road ECNLR team at best).  Massive turnover with the team and a coaching change in the middle of the season.  Buyer beware.


Let’s keep to the facts…any Surf players that chose to play HS soccer were excluded from the “Winter Program” at Surf.  The “Winter Program” was designed as an alternative to the HS season, and it ended with the mixed age group ‘05 team trip to play in the ECNL showcase in Houston.  The HS soccer season was still in session during the trip to Houston.  Therefore, no HS players were even allowed to go to Houston.  They were not punished for playing HS.  The ‘05 team that went to Houston (and beat Solar BTW), was a mix of players who wanted to go to the showcase selected from the Winter Group.
Any Surf players knows that DOC Deza is not a fan of HS soccer.  Club emails are sent fully supporting HS soccer, but privately HS soccer is demonized by the DOC.  For what it’s worth, not all coaches at Surf feel the same as Deza about HS soccer.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper

LouSag said:


> Let’s keep to the facts…any Surf players that chose to play HS soccer were excluded from the “Winter Program” at Surf.  The “Winter Program” was designed as an alternative to the HS season, and it ended with the mixed age group ‘05 team trip to play in the ECNL showcase in Houston.  The HS soccer season was still in session during the trip to Houston.  Therefore, no HS players were even allowed to go to Houston.  They were not punished for playing HS.  The ‘05 team that went to Houston (and beat Solar BTW), was a mix of players who wanted to go to the showcase selected from the Winter Group.
> Any Surf players knows that DOC Deza is not a fan of HS soccer.  Club emails are sent fully supporting HS soccer, but privately HS soccer is demonized by the DOC.  For what it’s worth, not all coaches at Surf feel the same as Deza about HS soccer.


The "facts" the HS season was over for all of the following HS teams by the time of the trip (these are just the playoff teams):
Open:
Bonita Vista 
Carlsbad
LCC
Cathedral 
Del Norte
Westview 

D1:
Bishops
SDA
Valhalla
Helix 
OLP

D2:
Patrick Henry 
Francis Parker 
Otay Ranch 
Christian Patriots 

That is a lot of HS teams that were done with HS soccer by the time of the showcase.  The girls that went were part of the winter training, no argument.  Surf players know he isn't a fan, he told them and then lied about it when confronted.  The club was supportive, which is the rub.  The organization says no problem, but your boss says no. Who is in charge?  I know that not all coaches feel that way about HS soccer.  IMO, the club and the coach should be on the same page about the message.   

Congratulations to the girls that won.  I am sure they are excellent players and have bright futures ahead of them.  Play HS soccer, don't play HS soccer, I don't care.  Right now the club appears to be on 1 page and a coach is on another, this is less than an ideal situation.


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## LouSag

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> The "facts" the HS season was over for all of the following HS teams by the time of the trip (these are just the playoff teams):
> Open:
> Bonita Vista
> Carlsbad
> LCC
> Cathedral
> Del Norte
> Westview
> 
> D1:
> Bishops
> SDA
> Valhalla
> Helix
> OLP
> 
> D2:
> Patrick Henry
> Francis Parker
> Otay Ranch
> Christian Patriots
> 
> That is a lot of HS teams that were done with HS soccer by the time of the showcase.  The girls that went were part of the winter training, no argument.  Surf players know he isn't a fan, he told them and then lied about it when confronted.  The club was supportive, which is the rub.  The organization says no problem, but your boss says no. Who is in charge?  I know that not all coaches feel that way about HS soccer.  IMO, the club and the coach should be on the same page about the message.
> 
> Congratulations to the girls that won.  I am sure they are excellent players and have bright futures ahead of them.  Play HS soccer, don't play HS soccer, I don't care.  Right now the club appears to be on 1 page and a coach is on another, this is less than an ideal situation.


So Deza is supposed to send a team to the ECNL showcase in Texas based on which teams are still in the HS playoffs.  That is comical.
He made it extremely clear that those who chose HS soccer would not participate in the Winter Program.


MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> The "facts" the HS season was over for all of the following HS teams by the time of the trip (these are just the playoff teams):
> Open:
> Bonita Vista
> Carlsbad
> LCC
> Cathedral
> Del Norte
> Westview
> 
> D1:
> Bishops
> SDA
> Valhalla
> Helix
> OLP
> 
> D2:
> Patrick Henry
> Francis Parker
> Otay Ranch
> Christian Patriots
> 
> That is a lot of HS teams that were done with HS soccer by the time of the showcase.  The girls that went were part of the winter training, no argument.  Surf players know he isn't a fan, he told them and then lied about it when confronted.  The club was supportive, which is the rub.  The organization says no problem, but your boss says no. Who is in charge?  I know that not all coaches feel that way about HS soccer.  IMO, the club and the coach should be on the same page about the message.
> 
> Congratulations to the girls that won.  I am sure they are excellent players and have bright futures ahead of them.  Play HS soccer, don't play HS soccer, I don't care.  Right now the club appears to be on 1 page and a coach is on another, this is less than an ideal situation.
> [/QUOTE
> So DOC Deza is supposed to send a team to the ECNL showcase in Houston partially based on which HS soccer players in his club are elimated from the playoffs?  That is comical and impossible.
> Deza made it perfectly clear.  You choose between HS soccer or the Surf Winter Program.  Whether you made the HS playoffs or not, HS soccer ended on 5 Mar.  The ECNL showcase in Houston went the weekend before.  So your daughters team gets bounced from the playoffs on a Wednesday, and now you want her to go to the ECNL showcase in Houston just 2 days later.  Got it.
> Like I said, HS soccer ended on 5 March.  Surf ECNL and ECRL practices resumed on 7 March.
> I agree with you on 1 point—the club and DOC need to get on the same page merits (or lack thereof) of HS soccer.  So far, they have let the individual decide.


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## LouSag

Deza made it perfectly clear. You choose between HS soccer or the Surf Winter Program. Whether you made the HS playoffs or not, HS soccer ended on 5 Mar. The ECNL showcase in Houston went the weekend before. So your daughters team gets bounced from the playoffs on a Wednesday, and now you want her to go to the ECNL showcase in Houston just 2 days later. Got it.
Like I said, HS soccer ended on 5 March. Surf ECNL and ECRL practices resumed on 7 March.

I agree with you on 1 point—the club and DOC need to get on the same page merits (or lack thereof) of HS soccer. So far, they have let the individual decide.


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## Emma

LouSag said:


> Deza made it perfectly clear. You choose between HS soccer or the Surf Winter Program. Whether you made the HS playoffs or not, HS soccer ended on 5 Mar. The ECNL showcase in Houston went the weekend before. So your daughters team gets bounced from the playoffs on a Wednesday, and now you want her to go to the ECNL showcase in Houston just 2 days later. Got it.
> Like I said, HS soccer ended on 5 March. Surf ECNL and ECRL practices resumed on 7 March.
> 
> I agree with you on 1 point—the club and DOC need to get on the same page merits (or lack thereof) of HS soccer. So far, they have let the individual decide.


Let's keep it that way.  No need to be on the same page about everything.  Individual choices and options works.  What Surf is doing works for everyone except those that want to do both at the same time.  CIF is not going to allow that.


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