# United Cup 2016



## therealVIN (Aug 11, 2016)

Need B2009 teams for United Cup.  All games will be played at the newly refurbished Ranch Soccer Complex.  Full length games

To Register:  http://unitedfc.org/tournaments/unitedcup/


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## lvnsocr (Aug 11, 2016)

What is anticipated schedule release date?


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## Vin (Aug 11, 2016)

therealVIN said:


> Need B2009 teams for United Cup.  All games will be played at the newly refurbished Ranch Soccer Complex.  Full length games
> 
> To Register:  http://unitedfc.org/tournaments/unitedcup/


Thank you, we have found a team


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## therealVIN (Aug 16, 2016)

therealVIN said:


> Need B2009 teams for United Cup.  All games will be played at the newly refurbished Ranch Soccer Complex.  Full length games
> 
> To Register:  http://unitedfc.org/tournaments/unitedcup/


Still need a B2009 AND a G99 Tier 1 team.  Contact me via pm if interested or the scheduler at scheduler@unitedfc.org


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## 24/7 (Aug 17, 2016)

therealVIN said:


> Still need a B2009 AND a G99 Tier 1 team.  Contact me via pm if interested or the scheduler at scheduler@unitedfc.org


Any updates on when the schedules will be out for the tournament?

Thanks


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## therealVIN (Aug 18, 2016)

24/7 said:


> Any updates on when the schedules will be out for the tournament?
> 
> Thanks


Next day or so.


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## therealVIN (Aug 18, 2016)

*Update:*

To round out our flights, we need following teams: Superliga equals Tier 1, Premier Level, Gold.  If interested email scheduler@unitedfc.org for details.  Most games are full length and have quarter finals.  To register:  http://unitedfc.org/tournaments/unitedcup/

B2009
B2000 Superliga

G2004 Superliga
G2003 Superliga
G2002 Superliga
G2001 Superliga
G2000 Superliga and Premier
G1999 Superliga


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## windnsea26 (Aug 22, 2016)

Vin, sent you a PM.


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## Penalty Kicks Stink (Aug 22, 2016)

CDA Slammers Huie interested in 2004 slot. 

Sent you email


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## therealVIN (Aug 22, 2016)

Penalty Kicks Stink said:


> CDA Slammers Huie interested in 2004 slot.
> 
> Sent you email


Brian is in contact with you from the email strings.


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## Penalty Kicks Stink (Aug 22, 2016)

We are all set

Thanks


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## windnsea26 (Aug 22, 2016)

Schedules are up:
http://events.gotsport.com/events/default.aspx?EventID=49947


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## Laced (Aug 23, 2016)

therealVIN, could you explain Friday check in is required? Most tournaments no longer require Friday check ins. It would save team managers an extra trip and your volunteers hours. Check in can be done an hour before the first game, when field marshals have to be there anyways.


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## therealVIN (Aug 23, 2016)

Laced said:


> therealVIN, could you explain Friday check in is required? Most tournaments no longer require Friday check ins. It would save team managers an extra trip and your volunteers hours. Check in can be done an hour before the first game, when field marshals have to be there anyways.


Friday night check is mandatory.  No sat check in.  We have too many teams and will not be set up to check in teams at other venues.  Most large tournaments do Fri check in.  We may offer Fri afternoon check in as well.


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## Laced (Aug 23, 2016)

therealVIN said:


> Friday night check is mandatory.  No sat check in.  We have too many teams and will not be set up to check in teams at other venues.  Most large tournaments do Fri check in.  We may offer Fri afternoon check in as well.


I'm trying to understand your logic.

No matter how many teams you have, they won't be at the same venue. As a matter of fact, the more teams you have, the more difficult logistically it is for everyone to have a central check in Friday. There're usually a dozen or so teams at one venue. Wouldn't it be easier for Saturday check ins?


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## therealVIN (Aug 23, 2016)

Laced said:


> I'm trying to understand your logic.
> 
> No matter how many teams you have, they won't be at the same venue. As a matter of fact, the more teams you have, the more difficult logistically it is for everyone to have a central check in Friday. There're usually a dozen or so teams at one venue. Wouldn't it be easier for Saturday check ins?


absolutely not.  Friday check in is the best and easiest for all.


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## therealVIN (Aug 23, 2016)

Still need a G99 Superliga team.  Will give discount.  Email scheduler@unitedfc.org if interested.


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## Dargle (Aug 23, 2016)

Laced said:


> therealVIN, could you explain Friday check in is required? Most tournaments no longer require Friday check ins. It would save team managers an extra trip and your volunteers hours. Check in can be done an hour before the first game, when field marshals have to be there anyways.


Not saying United Cup is doing this, but the few big tournaments that still require Friday night check-in (and it's a declining number; Cerritos, for instance, didn't require it for its Memorial Day weekend tournament) often make a non-trivial amount of revenues from hotel kickbacks.  I believe someone mentioned on another thread that it was the third highest revenue line-item for Surf Cup this year, after registration fees and concessions.  A Friday check-in often tips the balance for a Team Manager toward staying in one of the approved hotels, especially since the Friday evening drive will often be substantially worse than the Saturday morning drive.  At West Coast, they were also pushing the concessions/t-shirts hard at the Friday night check-in, which probably helped with those revenues too.

From the purely logistical perspective, one reason reason some big tournaments are foregoing Friday night check-in is because of the development of large multi-field complexes such as Silverlakes etc.  That allows even larger tournaments to have some economies of scale for check-in that they can't if they are using dozens of fields.  Even tournaments that have dozens of fields (e.g., OC Kickoff Classic) don't use Friday night check-in.

Of course, this means that if the market is against Friday night check-ins, there are alternatives to avoid this and eventually they should disappear.  As of now, though, enough still have the drawing power to demand it.


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## outside! (Aug 23, 2016)

therealVIN said:


> absolutely not.  Friday check in is the best and easiest for all.


Friday check in is the easiest for the hosting club. It is not the best and easiest for the team managers (The people who write the tournament fee checks).


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## therealVIN (Aug 24, 2016)

Had a B98 team drop. Need 1 superliga team to fill spot. Discount will apply.

If interested, email scheduler@unitedfc.org


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## Wez (Aug 24, 2016)

therealVIN said:


> Still need a G99 *"Superliga"* team.


Am I the only one confused by each tournament deciding to call the flights something different?


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## therealVIN (Aug 24, 2016)

Wez said:


> Am I the only one confused by each tournament deciding to call the flights something different?


Superliga has been the name of our top flight for 9 years.


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## Wez (Aug 24, 2016)

therealVIN said:


> Superliga has been the name of our top flight for 9 years.


Ok, but it's different then Slammers Players Cup flights, which are different than Surf Cup flights, which are different from Pat's Cup flights, etc.


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## Laced (Sep 5, 2016)

Dargle said:


> Of course, this means that if the market is against Friday night check-ins, there are alternatives to avoid this and eventually they should disappear.  As of now, though, enough still have the drawing power to demand it.


The efficient market model doesn't work here. For it to work, the market has to be of sufficient size, participants have to act rationally, there has to be equal access to information, resources, etc.

I asked Vin why Friday check in was necessary. His response seemed to be that the large number of teams made it "mandatory." Yet he only had half a dozen people work at check in. We had to wait 30 minutes in line. How's that logical? You expect him to rationally respond to the market? Access to fields gives that club an advantage in competing for tournament dollars, but that advantage can only go so far. As an example do I need tell you how a once almighty club almost went out of business?


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## Dargle (Sep 5, 2016)

Laced said:


> The efficient market model doesn't work here. For it to work, the market has to be of sufficient size, participants have to act rationally, there has to be equal access to information, resources, etc.


It's certainly true that it is not as efficient as it could be for a variety of reasons - size of market, the repeat player difficulty (TAs and coaches turn over frequently in many places), profit motive issues - but that just reflects the degree of efficiency and the length of time for market equilibrium to start to develop.  There's probably no such thing as a truly efficient market anywhere, as behavioral economists have demonstrated.  For efficiency not to apply at all, though, there would need to be more monopoly powers than exist today. 

Not surprisingly, evidence of the market reacting against Friday night check-in already exists.  I've been in this world long enough to remember when most tourneys had Friday night check-ins.  Now, not only do most NOT have Friday night check-ins, but tournaments routinely advertise that they don't require Friday night check-in, which used to be a real advantage, but has become less so since most tournaments don't anymore.  Plus, the development of multi-field complexes, particularly at Silverlakes in Norco, have reduced the logistical need for Friday night check-in, which takes away one market barrier to change (and is evidence of the market moving to satisfy need, since Silverlakes is private development).  Finally, there is evidence that the market has already started to provide alternatives to tournaments altogether (which, in part, may be a reaction to the cost and time commitment that a Friday night check-in requirement entails).  For example, many of the age group pages on the Hollywood FC Scrimmage facebook site are heavily subscribed and actively used.  In addition, round robins have become quite common and some clubs have gone the next step to organize 3 game mini-tournaments in one or two age groups with a relatively low reg fee ($250) and no trophies.  One advantage to these round robins is that you can delay commitment until you know who else is participating, thereby assuring 2-3 strong games, rather than rolling the dice with a tournament.  That has traditionally been one of the advantages of a big tournament -- assurance of appropriate high-level competition.  Plus, $80 bucks for round robin ref fees, or even $160 for ref and field fees, sure beats $700-$1000 for the tournament pin/medal.  Small Spring Leagues on single field sites are also more common, as teams see them as more economical and beneficial than paying twice the amount to pay half the games over a longer period of time.  Of course, none of this is replacing tournaments or Friday check-in altogether, but given the growth in the club environment in just 10 years, it explains why those tournaments are dwindling and why registration hasn't exploded in tournaments in the aggregate to match the change in the number of teams and clubs.    It may be slow and in fits and starts, but the market is clearly working on this issue.


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## timbuck (Sep 5, 2016)

Why do we even need to check in at all?
Ref has a roster and player cards on the field, right?


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## Laced (Sep 5, 2016)

Dargle said:


> It's certainly true xxx.


Why do you insist on using the market model which you don't seem to know much about? How's it relevant in any case? Did espola hijack your account?


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## Laced (Sep 5, 2016)

timbuck said:


> Why do we even need to check in at all?
> Ref has a roster and player cards on the field, right?


Check in freezes the roster, if it is a purpose.


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## Dargle (Sep 5, 2016)

Laced said:


> Why do you insist on using the market model which you don't seem to know much about? How's it relevant in any case? Did espola hijack your account?


That's funny.  Economics smak from an anonymous internet soccer forum participant.  Not sure why you would insist on denying the existence of a market or the existence of market forces either, especially with unsupported categorical statements, but if it makes you feel better, go for it.  I don't need this.

For the original poster, bottom line is that there are growing alternatives to Friday night check-ins if you consider that a deal breaker.


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## Laced (Sep 6, 2016)

Dargle said:


> That's funny.  Economics smak from an anonymous internet soccer forum participant.  Not sure why you would insist on denying the existence of a market or the existence of market forces either, especially with unsupported categorical statements, but if it makes you feel better, go for it.  I don't need this.
> 
> For the original poster, bottom line is that there are growing alternatives to Friday night check-ins if you consider that a deal breaker.


Let me just use one example to show the fallacies of your pseudo intellectual "analysis." For economies of large scale to apply, there has to be cost savings. Tournaments are staffed by volunteer parents, so there's no cost to speak of in the first place, much less cost savings between Friday and Saturday check ins. Really pretty elementary stuff. Large multi-field complexes have nothing to do with check ins, as check ins don't have to be at a central location. They can be done at various venues.

Bottom line for us volunteer team managers is that we want more options for our teams. Most of us wouldn't mind spending a few extra hours for our teams, if Friday check in serves a purpose. For this reason I asked Vin why it was mandatory. How your long-winded and flawed "analysis" is relevant is beyond me.


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## Soccer (Sep 6, 2016)

Laced said:


> Let me just use one example to show the fallacies of your pseudo intellectual "analysis." For economies of large scale to apply, there has to be cost savings. Tournaments are staffed by volunteer parents, so there's no cost to speak of in the first place, much less cost savings between Friday and Saturday check ins. Really pretty elementary stuff. Large multi-field complexes have nothing to do with check ins, as check ins don't have to be at a central location. They can be done at various venues.
> 
> Bottom line for us volunteer team managers is that we want more options for our teams. Most of us wouldn't mind spending a few extra hours for our teams, if there's a reason for Friday check ins. For this reason I asked Vin why it was mandatory. How your long-winded and flawed "analysis" is relevant is beyond me.


A Tournament can use less parent volunteers for a Friday check in, same apply's to one venue.  It is easy to send match reports to one location versus dividing them out to various locations.  Check in is a better smoother process for a tournament if done at one location, whether that is Friday or Saturday AM.  You have more control to make sure everyone is checked in and has their tournament stuff.

Why is checkin required you ask?  Insurance plain and simple.  The player card gives the player supplemental insurance.  Cal South requires per their sanctioning that all teams are checked in, to verify players cards for insurance and medical release forms.  People think it is for cheating, nope mostly insurance.  It is just a coincidence it helps with cheating.


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## timbuck (Sep 6, 2016)

Makes sense.  Thanks.


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## outside! (Sep 6, 2016)

I don't think it does make that much sense. Every event field has a field marshal that checks teams into each game anyway. The logistics of setting up the field marshal tent doesn't change that much by having to also include a few boxes with the tournament swag. The difference in volunteer hours to set up a centralized Friday night check-in versus adding some functionality to field marshal tents that will be setup either way is not that big of a difference. Distribute the some of the Friday night volunteers to help out with field check-ins. Require the team manager to check their team in Saturday morning (even if they have an afternoon game). The only real reason for Friday night check in is to get a few extra hotel night kickbacks. As a volunteer who has helped with both types of check in scenarios, field check in was easier. As a former team manager, I hated Friday night check in (especially San Diego United's tournament where they made me pay for parking!). As an aside, game day check in is also better for the environment since it results in fewer miles driven. Given the size of some tournaments, this is not insignificant.


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## timbuck (Sep 6, 2016)

My statement of "Makes Sense" was toward the reason for having check in at all vs just letting refs check roster against player cards on the field.


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## Laced (Sep 6, 2016)

Soccer said:


> A Tournament can use less parent volunteers for a Friday check in, same apply's to one venue.  It is easy to send match reports to one location versus dividing them out to various locations.  Check in is a better smoother process for a tournament if done at one location, whether that is Friday or Saturday AM.  You have more control to make sure everyone is checked in and has their tournament stuff.
> 
> Why is checkin required you ask?  Insurance plain and simple.  The player card gives the player supplemental insurance.  Cal South requires per their sanctioning that all teams are checked in, to verify players cards for insurance and medical release forms.  People think it is for cheating, nope mostly insurance.  It is just a coincidence it helps with cheating.


Your answer doesn't make sense to me.

I really don't care if check in is required. My question is "What can be done Friday that can't be done Saturday?"

How do you have more control when it's at one location? Tournament directors don't do the check ins. They answer questions. The only difference is whether it's done in person or over the phone. A tournament actually use more parent volunteer hours for a Friday check in, as field marshals have to be there Saturdays anyways. I've worked at tournaments too. But of course, to tournaments, that's probably not a big consideration.


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## BJ18 (Sep 6, 2016)

Any other team out there get medals and a trophy that had 2015 on them?


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## Smileyone (Sep 6, 2016)

timbuck said:


> My statement of "Makes Sense" was toward the reason for having check in at all vs just letting refs check roster against player cards on the field.


Maybe the refs would actually check the cards- or maybe not-the volunteers didn't even check card against player-refs aware of older kids playing down and now big deal.......


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## G00TA (Sep 6, 2016)

Regarding medals and trophies, yes. The G00 Superliga Final ended up being the last game at The Ramch. It was explained to us that the engraver made a mistake and that replacement trophies and medals will be provided.

Soccer Life Academy had 3 teams win championships and all three teams had 2015 medals and trophies. 

Not because we won, but the United leadership was very helpful and the volunteers I came into contact with as a TA were all friendly and helpful.


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