# DA is like going to Harvard???



## coachsamy (Oct 30, 2018)

https://www.soccernation.com/why-does-the-development-academy-bar-players-from-high-school-soccer/

Someone is US Soccer is really getting too carried away...


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 30, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> https://www.soccernation.com/why-does-the-development-academy-bar-players-from-high-school-soccer/
> 
> Someone is US Soccer is really getting too carried away...


So did Obama.


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## coachsamy (Oct 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> So did Obama.


WTF Obama has to do with anything?


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## futboldad1 (Oct 30, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> https://www.soccernation.com/why-does-the-development-academy-bar-players-from-high-school-soccer/
> 
> Someone is US Soccer is really getting too carried away...


Hahahahahahaha, US Soccer just cannot keep its foot from out of its mouth. This is laughable!


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## Multi Sport (Oct 30, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> https://www.soccernation.com/why-does-the-development-academy-bar-players-from-high-school-soccer/
> 
> Someone is US Soccer is really getting too carried away...


Harvard? Is that due to the cost?


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 30, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> WTF Obama has to do with anything?


He went to Harvard.


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## espola (Oct 30, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> WTF Obama has to do with anything?


Loser joe can't help himself.  He has no other function in life.


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## Zdrone (Oct 30, 2018)

It’s a good thing my kid is getting a fabulous business with a minor in medical education at his club soccer practices.


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 30, 2018)

espola said:


> Loser joe can't help himself.  He has no other function in life.


You obviously don't communicate with your wife.


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## Fishme1 (Oct 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> So did Obama.


Real dumb..


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## TangoCity (Oct 30, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> https://www.soccernation.com/why-does-the-development-academy-bar-players-from-high-school-soccer/
> 
> Someone is US Soccer is really getting too carried away...


Elitism.  The article comes off making US Soccer's DA program look elite/snobby/(we are better than you).  In real life there is ALWAYS something to learn no matter who you are competing with or against.  Life lessons can come in many forms and it is not always from the daily grind of competing against the "so called" best or the people who can afford to go to Harvard or play DA soccer.  There is the pride for playing for your school and representing your student body and life long friends and competing against your cross town rivals.  These are once in a lifetime experiences and to throw that away because some snobby beauracrat from US Soccer finds entertainment in belittling the rest of the soccer playing community is a shame.  I have a dd playing in her first year of HS soccer (who is as good as some of our local DA players) and she is thrilled to death at the prosepct of putting on her schools jersey while playing the sport she loves as are most of her friends.  It would be better soccer with the DA kids, but they have made their choices and I am thrilled for the less skilled kids who are getting a chance to play on one of their High School soccer teams because those players have gone MIA due to the elitism of US Soccer.


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## timbuck (Oct 30, 2018)

Wow.  That is the strangest comment yet from anyone at US Soccer.  And there have been some very interesting comments in recent years.

"Imagine you get into Harvard.  You go to Harvard, and you’re in a very high-level environment. There are big group projects to work on that are crucial to your education. Those projects are going to help you learn how to handle huge stressful situations later in life. But then you want to take a few months off to go to a different school for a while. Think Harvard will be OK with that? You think that’s going to be beneficial to your Harvard education? "

WTF are they talking about?  I'm pretty sure that Harvard won't kick you out of school if you go and party at Penn State for a few months.  As long as you keep your grades up, I don't know that Harvard will give a crap.  Escpecially if you are the smartest, most talented kid in the class.  Go to Oxford and study for a few months.  Go to Europe and learn about international trade.
But don't you dare kick a soccer ball around with anyone that doesn't wear a Harvard sweatshirt.


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## Fishme1 (Oct 30, 2018)

TangoCity said:


> Elitism.  The article comes off making US Soccer's DA program look elite/snobby/(we are better than you).  In real life there is ALWAYS something to learn no matter who you are competing with or against.  Life lessons can come in many forms and it is not always from the daily grind of competing against the "so called" best or the people who can afford to go to Harvard or play DA soccer.  There is the pride for playing for your school and representing your student body and life long friends and competing against your cross town rivals.  These are once in a lifetime experiences and to throw that away because some snobby beauracrat from US Soccer finds entertainment in belittling the rest of the soccer playing community is a shame.  I have a dd playing in her first year of HS soccer (who is as good as some of our local DA players) and she is thrilled to death at the prosepct of putting on her schools jersey while playing the sport she loves as are most of her friends.  It would be better soccer with the DA kids, but they have made their choices and I am thrilled for the less skilled kids who are getting a chance to play on one of their High School soccer teams because those players have gone MIA due to the elitism of US Soccer.


I like what you said. Except for the less skilled kids getting a chance to play high school soccer. There is plenty of talent  that simply chooses not to play DA.


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 30, 2018)

Fishme1 said:


> Real dumb..


Yes he is. If he can get through Harvard, how hard could it be? Still waiting to see his grades and find out who paid.
 That's all.


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## TangoCity (Oct 30, 2018)

Fishme1 said:


> I like what you said. Except for the less skilled kids getting a chance to play high school soccer. There is plenty of talent out there that simply chooses not to play DA.


What I meant is that the less skilled kids that wouldn't make one of the three High School teams (those being Varsity, JV, Frosh) will now make one of those teams.  I am in agreement that there is plenty of talent out there that simply chooses not to play DA (that was part of my point).


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## Overtime (Oct 30, 2018)

Funny how the high school kids who go to “Harvard” in basketball, baseball and volleyball seem to do just fine taking a few months off to play at the “JC” level.


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 30, 2018)

TangoCity said:


> What I meant is that the less skilled kids that wouldn't make one of the three High School teams (those being Varsity, JV, Frosh) will now make one of those teams.  I am in agreement that there is plenty of talent out there that simply chooses not to play DA (that was part of my point).


Fish knows more about soccer than anyone in here.
No kidding.


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## focomoso (Oct 30, 2018)

> Imagine you get into Harvard.  You go to Harvard, and you’re in a very high-level environment. There are big group projects to work on that are crucial to your education. Those projects are going to help you learn how to handle huge stressful situations later in life. But then you want to take a few months off to go to a different school for a while. Think Harvard will be OK with that? You think that’s going to be beneficial to your Harvard education? Furthermore, you’ll be leaving the members of your group without an important member of the team, while you take a few months to go do something else. It’s not fair to the group left behind. Additionally, it’s not going to be good for your own education. You can’t just leave for a few months.


This is wrong on _soooo_ many levels. 

First, Harvard (almost any school, really) is perfectly fine with students taking time off. From the Harvard site: 



> *May I defer my admission once admitted?*
> 
> Yes. We want to do everything possible to help the students we enroll make the most of their opportunities, avoiding the much reported “burnout” phenomenon that can keep them from reaching their full potential. Our overall graduation rate of 98%, among the highest in the nation, is perhaps due in part to the fact that so many students take time off, before or during college. The Admissions Committee encourages admitted students to defer enrollment for one year to travel, pursue a special project or activity, work, or spend time in another meaningful way—provided they do not enroll in a degree-granting program at another college. Deferrals for two-year military service are also granted. Each year, between 80 and 110 students defer their matriculation to the College, and they report their experiences to be uniformly positive. After graduation, large numbers of Harvard students take time off before beginning work or graduate school. See more about taking time off.


So the analogy fails on its face.

But second, and more importantly, the emphasis on letting your team down if you take time off points to exactly what is wrong with the DA system. The team is not going to college. The team is not going to play for the national team. The team should not matter at all. What matters are the players. If playing high school is better for the player (for any reason) then the DA should encourage it. 

And lastly, my kid plays on a DA and let me tell you, it ain't no Harvard.


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## GKDad65 (Oct 30, 2018)

What a bunch of BS!
US Soccer is drowning in its own nonsense and its fans (AND youth players) are left to suffer.


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## jpeter (Oct 30, 2018)

Like going to Sunday School.....must conform,  play 4-3-3 among other things is what my player told us when he started.


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## Overlap (Oct 30, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> https://www.soccernation.com/why-does-the-development-academy-bar-players-from-high-school-soccer/
> 
> Someone is US Soccer is really getting too carried away...


I'm curious to know the number of player's that skipped HS soccer to stay DA these last 2 years on the girls side. I know several kids in our area that left DA last season and this season, to play for a local club team, ECNL or just stopped playing altogether. Some said it was partly to play HS but the others said it was too hard trying to deal with school, college entrance stuff, the drive, and the # of training days during the week was just too big of a commitment. My guess is, some of those player's may have had burnout, got smart and realized there's a 3% chance of playing at the collegiate level  and about a 1% chance of playing at the professional level on the girls side, (Stat is from last years NCAA booklet), not good odds and wasn't worth missing HS life..... can't see how this article helps their cause, what is it they're offering? a path to what?.....


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## Kicknit22 (Oct 30, 2018)

Easy answer (albeit, entirely moronic) for *Mirelle van Rijbroek.  *She has absolutely no clue about HS soccer in America.  The simple fact that it’s NOT about the soccer really.  HS sports are about so much more.  GET A CLUE!!


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## Kicknit22 (Oct 30, 2018)

I sincerely hope that DA is dissolved by the time my kids have kids (assuming they’d play this awesome sport) .  I absolutely hate how it has affected mine and so many of her friends.


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## espola (Oct 30, 2018)

Kicknit22 said:


> I sincerely hope that DA is dissolved by the time my kids have kids (assuming they’d play this awesome sport) .  I absolutely hate how it has affected mine and so many of her friends.


I gave often wondered if any of the geniuses who started DA played HS?  Or attended an American HS?


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## Justafan (Oct 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Yes he is. If he can get through Harvard, how hard could it be? Still waiting to see his grades and find out who paid.
> That's all.


Envy is the sincerest form of flattery.


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## Kicknit22 (Oct 30, 2018)

espola said:


> I gave often wondered if any of the geniuses who started DA played HS?  Or attended an American HS?


Not any that factor into real decision making.


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## Fishme1 (Oct 30, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Fish knows more about soccer than anyone in here.
> No kidding.


If you say so. Haha..


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## jpeter (Oct 30, 2018)

Fishme1 said:


> If you say so. Haha..


I dunno watch out for Goldie...


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 30, 2018)

espola said:


> I gave often wondered if any of the geniuses who started DA played HS?  Or attended an American HS?


Gave? Genius?


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## Fishme1 (Oct 30, 2018)

jpeter said:


> I dunno watch out for Goldie...


Yikes !! You got me.


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## Sheriff Joe (Oct 30, 2018)

Justafan said:


> Envy is the sincerest form of flattery.


Now, you know better than that.


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## JoeZ (Oct 30, 2018)

Overlap said:


> I'm curious to know the number of player's that skipped HS soccer to stay DA these last 2 years on the girls side. I know several kids in our area that left DA last season and this season, to play for a local club team, ECNL or just stopped playing altogether. Some said it was partly to play HS but the others said it was too hard trying to deal with school, college entrance stuff, the drive, and the # of training days during the week was just too big of a commitment. My guess is, some of those player's may have had burnout, got smart and realized there's a 3% chance of playing at the collegiate level  and about a 1% chance of playing at the professional level on the girls side, (Stat is from last years NCAA booklet), not good odds and wasn't worth missing HS life..... can't see how this article helps their cause, what is it they're offering? a path to what?.....


The story makes no sense except demonstrating  they feel the need to make excuses for not allowing HS which is a huge mistake for the GDA. They are also less concerned with the players education than they are with controlling.


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## Lambchop (Oct 30, 2018)

TangoCity said:


> Elitism.  The article comes off making US Soccer's DA program look elite/snobby/(we are better than you).  In real life there is ALWAYS something to learn no matter who you are competing with or against.  Life lessons can come in many forms and it is not always from the daily grind of competing against the "so called" best or the people who can afford to go to Harvard or play DA soccer.  There is the pride for playing for your school and representing your student body and life long friends and competing against your cross town rivals.  These are once in a lifetime experiences and to throw that away because some snobby beauracrat from US Soccer finds entertainment in belittling the rest of the soccer playing community is a shame.  I have a dd playing in her first year of HS soccer (who is as good as some of our local DA playersI) and she is thrilled to death at the prosepct of putting on her schools jersey while playing the sport she loves as are most of her friends.  It would be better soccer with the DA kids, but they have made their choices and I am thrilled for the less skilled kids who are getting a chance to play on one of their High School soccer teams because those players have gone MIA due to the elitism of US Soccer.


Congratulations to your daughter, if she is happy that is important.  Be aware there are many sports in high school where a player can put on the school jersey and represent their school. Many DA players, and there are quite a  few, play another sport in high school besides soccer.  It takes a special student/athlete who can handle it but there are many.  No one has to throw away a "one in a lifetime experience".  It is a choice.


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## Simisoccerfan (Oct 30, 2018)

Overlap said:


> I'm curious to know the number of player's that skipped HS soccer to stay DA these last 2 years on the girls side. I know several kids in our area that left DA last season and this season, to play for a local club team, ECNL or just stopped playing altogether. Some said it was partly to play HS but the others said it was too hard trying to deal with school, college entrance stuff, the drive, and the # of training days during the week was just too big of a commitment. My guess is, some of those player's may have had burnout, got smart and realized there's a 3% chance of playing at the collegiate level  and about a 1% chance of playing at the professional level on the girls side, (Stat is from last years NCAA booklet), not good odds and wasn't worth missing HS life..... can't see how this article helps their cause, what is it they're offering? a path to what?.....



Haters hate!  If you asked my DD she is happy not to be playing HS her senior year.  Last year in HS they went undefeated in league, she was MVP and was totally frustrated the whole season by the play.  She truly loves her DA teammates which really are her best friends plus she gets a three week break from soccer this holiday season when we finally get to go to Utah snowboarding.  Also, there is no way she would be have been seen by her future college coach and have the great offer ahead of her without having moved from her smaller club to DA.  Granted if there was just ECNL she could have gotten to the same place but my guess is that she would have still skipped HS this year (like a lot of girls were doing pre DA) to train instead in prep for college.  I also agree that for 97% of the girls that play soccer and won’t play beyond HS, the DA is the wrong place to play.  But almost every girl on our DA team is committed and if you asked them they believe they made the right choice.


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## Kicknit22 (Oct 31, 2018)

That’s cool that your daughter is happy with her choice.  But, my guess is that YOU were more frustrated with the play during HS, than she. Your poor kid had to suffer thru an undefeated season while being the obvious standout!? That must have sucked for her.  I can see why she wouldn’t want to return for her senior season, lol.


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## JCM (Oct 31, 2018)

Playing DA is the best way to get a college coach to notice you, but what they don't tell you is how few of them will actually play or make it through college on the roster.  Look at the roster for New Mexco, https://golobos.com/roster.aspx?path=msoc.  3 seniors, 3 juniors, 16 freshmen.  UCLA has 5 seniors out of a roster of 27, https://uclabruins.com/roster.aspx?roster=2211&path=msoc.  St. Marys has one senior, https://smcgaels.com/roster.aspx?roster=23&path=msoc.  Stanford has 4 seniors, https://gostanford.com/roster.aspx?roster=675&path=msoc.  

This isn't cherry picking.  It's the way it is at almost every D1 college on the men's side.  It's not hard to get a college to take you, but it's very hard to have a real soccer career whether it's from injuries, playing time or realizing that there's more to life in college than soccer.  My son is DA and could be recruited to play college, but to think he's actually going to play and that it would be worth it is likely foolish.  And for him to skip out on the high school experience because someone thinks the DA is Harvard is just dumb.


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## MA0812 (Oct 31, 2018)

Fishme1 said:


> I like what you said. Except for the less skilled kids getting a chance to play high school soccer. There is plenty of talent  that simply chooses not to play DA.


I know a few dozen kids that made the decision to turn down DA offers and or left DA in order to play for their high school. The talent pool is huge in SoCal. There are plenty of ECNL and flight 1 girls that would be starters on any DA team but chose not to go that route in order to play for their school and have a more flexible schedule.


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## Simisoccerfan (Oct 31, 2018)

Kick, you are completely wrong!   She is the third of my kids to play HS soccer.  HS soccer is great for the parents.  Tons of fans in the stands, newspaper articles, online interviews, awards, lots of other people telling you how great your kid played.  What parent wouldn’t like that?   Not playing HS to play DA this year is strictly her choice.   She was already committed prior to the start of this DA season so could have easily chose to return her senior year.


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## MA0812 (Oct 31, 2018)

GKDad65 said:


> What a bunch of BS!
> US Soccer is drowning in its own nonsense and its fans (AND youth players) are left to suffer.


"The Boys’ Development Academy started in 2007, and the Girls’ Development Academy started in 2017. "

We all know how well that's worked out for the USMNT especially in the last World Cup. Weird how the USWNT has been a pretty dominate team given the fact DA just started last season for the girls.


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## Fishme1 (Oct 31, 2018)

MA0812 said:


> "The Boys’ Development Academy started in 2007, and the Girls’ Development Academy started in 2017. "
> 
> We all know how well that's worked out for the USMNT especially in the last World Cup. Weird how the USWNT has been a pretty dominate team given the fact DA just started last season for the girls.[/QUOTE


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## Fishme1 (Oct 31, 2018)

What happen with the USMNT isn’t simply a DA problem. It goes deeper then that. The talent is everywhere. The politics involved is what happened to the USMNT.


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## jpeter (Oct 31, 2018)

DA is one way to get exposure to some college coaches but there are limited opportunities to do so once you hit u16/17 with only 20 odd games, one showcase and playoffs for 1/4 of the teams .  The more successful ones also play in a tournament or two so that can help.

Higher profile club teams play more games, tournments, national cup,  regionals, etc and can get more exposure or looks compared to DA.   We know club players who as sophomores had plenty of coaches following them and verbal offers evenutally.

Either way works so hard to say what's best but some DA teams say the Galaxy will have just about all their older players with college offers as a whole team,  that doesn't happen as much in club but on normal da teams don't see that


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## espola (Oct 31, 2018)

Another little twist that some DA observers may have missed - some boys playing on DA teams and thus sacrificing their HS opportunity, who have committed to a college by HS Senior year, will drop from their DA team as HS season starts and play a year in quest of HS glory.  HS team schedule usually includes 5 days a week of practice or games (sometimes 6 if their tournament schedule includes Saturday games), and in the usual situation the ex-DA player is going to be a starter, thus getting lots of  playing time (and HS rules have a liberal substitution policy, which can help in player development if the coach is any good).  The gap between the end of HS season in March and college team reporting time (August) can be filled by hooking on to a good Cal South team during their National Cup run.


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## Simisoccerfan (Oct 31, 2018)

MA0812 said:


> I know a few dozen kids that made the decision to turn down DA offers and or left DA in order to play for their high school. The talent pool is huge in SoCal. There are plenty of ECNL and flight 1 girls that would be starters on any DA team but chose not to go that route in order to play for their school and have a more flexible schedule.


How many is a few?  3?  More?   So you claim to know at least 36 girls that actually turned down DA or left DA teams for the sole reason to play HS?   I say BS.   I know 2 girls that left to DA to play HS and that likely was more about saving money.  I know several girls that tried out for DA and did not make the team.   I know half a dozen girls that left DA because they were not playing much (which I think was a smart choice).  Now I do agree that plenty of ECNL players would start and to a lesser degree some Flight 1 and Premier girls too.


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## Simisoccerfan (Oct 31, 2018)

jpeter said:


> DA is one way to get exposure to some college coaches but there are limited opportunities to do so once you hit u16/17 with only 20 odd games, one showcase and playoffs for 1/4 of the teams .  The more successful ones also play in a tournament or two so that can help.
> 
> Higher profile club teams play more games, tournments, national cup,  regionals, etc and can get more exposure or looks compared to DA.   We know club players who as sophomores had plenty of coaches following them and verbal offers evenutally.
> 
> Either way works so hard to say what's best but some DA teams say the Galaxy will have just about all their older players with college offers as a whole team,  that doesn't happen as much in club but on normal da teams don't see that


Jpeter, are you referring to boys or girls? I just looked and was surprised that the boys don’t have a Spring Showcase and they also play less league games.


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## jpeter (Oct 31, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Jpeter, are you referring to boys or girls? I just looked and was surprised that the boys don’t have a Spring Showcase and they also play less league games.


Yep boys been like that going on two seasons now.  We don't see many college types unless it's at a showcase or the playoffs. 

We've had more interest via foreign scouts from Eupore or Mexico than college ones on my son team acutally.  The college exposure thing might not really be a advantage for some da players depending on the club / team.


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## Simisoccerfan (Oct 31, 2018)

jpeter said:


> Yep boys been like that going on two seasons now.  We don't see many college types unless it's at a showcase or the playoffs.
> 
> We've had more interest via foreign scouts from Eupore or Mexico than college ones on my son team acutally.  The college exposure thing might not really be a advantage for some da players depending on the club / team.


Thought so.  Sounds like their are huge differences in the college exposure and opportunities between boys and girls.


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## USA_SOCCER_1 (Oct 31, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Thought so.  Sounds like their are huge differences in the college exposure and opportunities between boys and girls.


Yes it’s called Title IX


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## espola (Oct 31, 2018)

USA_SOCCER_1 said:


> Yes it’s called Title IX


In what way?


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## mirage (Oct 31, 2018)

jpeter said:


> Yep boys been like that going on two seasons now.  We don't see many college types unless it's at a showcase or the playoffs.
> 
> We've had more interest via foreign scouts from Eupore or Mexico than college ones on my son team acutally.  The college exposure thing might not really be a advantage for some da players depending on the club / team.


just a quick perspective on your statement.  At least for the boys side.

In the fall, college coaches are still in their own season.  Showcase in December is the first real chance to see the DA players that they've already taken interest in and any new.  Also its worth mentioning that the convenience of having all of them in the single location. 

In the winter and spring, you'll see more of the regional college coaches come to games as they are going through their recruiting wall and prioritizing their needs.

The final playoff/showcase in June identifies their candidates for the subsequent recruiting season.


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## mirage (Oct 31, 2018)

espola said:


> I gave often wondered if any of the geniuses who started DA played HS?  Or attended an American HS?


Well, you might have forgotten but DA used to break for HS until Claudio Reyna, of NYCFC, then in charge of USSFDA decided to to goto 10 months schedule.  I think it was in 2011-ish (or thereabout).

The rationale was that the players lost their training rigor and style, as well as picked up undesirable habits from HS games.  Wanted to consistency throughout the year.


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## mirage (Oct 31, 2018)

focomoso said:


> This is wrong on _soooo_ many levels.
> 
> First, Harvard (almost any school, really) is perfectly fine with students taking time off. From the Harvard site:
> 
> ...


So we shouldn't compare students taking a gap year between HS graduation and starting college by doing something else.  The article comparison is closer to doing a foreign study for a semester during one's normal college years.

Unfortunately, we have come to equate DA=College Soccer, when in fact the primary purpose of DA is not college soccer.  Its the USNT.  The only reason college is bantered about on DA teams is to attract parents and players.


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## USA_SOCCER_1 (Oct 31, 2018)

espola said:


> In what way?


That there are huge differences in college opportunities between boys and girls?  My alma mater for example has NCAA teams for women’s equestrian, water polo, soccer and lacrosse, but doesn’t have men’s soccer. But it’s all because of Title IX.


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## espola (Oct 31, 2018)

USA_SOCCER_1 said:


> That there are huge differences in college opportunities between boys and girls?  My alma mater for example has NCAA teams for women’s equestrian, water polo, soccer and lacrosse, but doesn’t have men’s soccer. But it’s all because of Title IX.


How many gridiron football scholarships do they award?


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## Kicknit22 (Oct 31, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Kick, you are completely wrong!   She is the third of my kids to play HS soccer.  HS soccer is great for the parents.  Tons of fans in the stands, newspaper articles, online interviews, awards, lots of other people telling you how great your kid played.  What parent wouldn’t like that?   Not playing HS to play DA this year is strictly her choice.   She was already committed prior to the start of this DA season so could have easily chose to return her senior year.


No, Simi, HS sports are not for the parents.  Do I love it? Hell yeah!  But I am one of those people that loved my own HS experience.  I loved being a student athlete.  So, I come from a good place in knowing how much it can mean to a kid in HS.  So, I have thoroughly enjoyed watching both my girls excel in HS while playing the sports they love.  Just watching them interact with their teamates (and classmates in the stands rooting for them), brings back very fond memories for me.  The same, I can imagine, they will look back fondly upon.  DA is my DD’s choice too.  She, unlike yours, is very sad to sacracfice HS. I can tell you this for certain, she won’t be sacrificing her senior year.  I truly believe that the majority lies in this favor.  JMO. Best of luck to your DD.  Maybe if mine had the same attitude as yours, it would be easier to go along with the program.  But, I’d still have the same opinion no matter. Mahalo!!


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## MarkM (Oct 31, 2018)

mirage said:


> So we shouldn't compare students taking a gap year between HS graduation and starting college by doing something else.  The article comparison is closer to doing a foreign study for a semester during one's normal college years.
> 
> Unfortunately, we have come to equate DA=College Soccer, when in fact the primary purpose of DA is not college soccer.  Its the USNT.  The only reason college is bantered about on DA teams is to attract parents and players.


The purpose of sports should never be about college, nor should any league in which a sport is played.  It's sad that we conflate academics with sports.  It ruins both.  The best academic school systems in the world don't have sports and the best sports programs in the world don't involve schools.  Even in the US, there is an inverse correlation between sports programs (particularly football) and the strength of the college.  There are, of course, exceptions, but the best schools, the Ivies, the little Ivies, Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, MIT, John Hopkins, Pomona, Chicago, (even Georgetown) etc., are all range from bad to blah in sports.  

If the purpose of a kid playing soccer is to get into school, why do kids play once they get there?  There is nothing at a little Ivy that requires a student to play at all once he or she is accepted.  I would submit it is the reason that these kids keep playing soccer (vaguely defined as the "pursuit of excellence") is the "primary purpose" for our kids to participate in sports.  It's the reason they started playing and its the reason that keeps them playing.  All of this college exposure non-sense is really sad reflection on our culture.  Somehow colleges were able to recruit players before all of these national leagues.  In our collective race to the bottom, we've managed to make it about "exposure."


----------



## MarkM (Oct 31, 2018)

espola said:


> How many gridiron football scholarships do they award?


Of the schools I'm familiar with, the answer would be zero.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Oct 31, 2018)

MarkM said:


> The purpose of sports should never be about college, nor should any league in which a sport is played.  It's sad that we conflate academics with sports.  It ruins both.  The best academic school systems in the world don't have sports and the best sports programs in the world don't involve schools.  Even in the US, there is an inverse correlation between sports programs (particularly football) and the strength of the college.  There are, of course, exceptions, but the best schools, the Ivies, the little Ivies, Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, MIT, John Hopkins, Pomona, Chicago, (even Georgetown) etc., are all range from bad to blah in sports.
> 
> If the purpose of a kid playing soccer is to get into school, why do kids play once they get there?  There is nothing at a little Ivy that requires a student to play at all once he or she is accepted.  I would submit it is the reason that these kids keep playing soccer (vaguely defined as the "pursuit of excellence") is the "primary purpose" for our kids to participate in sports.  It's the reason they started playing and its the reason that keeps them playing.  All of this college exposure non-sense is really sad reflection on our culture.  Somehow colleges were able to recruit players before all of these national leagues.  In our collective race to the bottom, we've managed to make it about "exposure."


Go ride your high horse off into the sunset!  Princeton is ranked 24th in the latest poll and Penn has a very strong program.   Georgetown is ranked 4th in D1!!!!  Cal Tech just started a D3 program this year. Little ivy Williams College is 2nd in the nation for D3!!!! John Hopkins is ranked 4th in D3.  Little Ivy Amherst is ranked 15th in D3.  UCSD is ranked 10th in D2 and has won multiple National Championships.  Duke’s average SAT is fricking 1475 and they are ranked 8th in D1. 

Next time before you post, check your facts.


----------



## MA0812 (Nov 1, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> How many is a few?  3?  More?   So you claim to know at least 36 girls that actually turned down DA or left DA teams for the sole reason to play HS?   I say BS.   I know 2 girls that left to DA to play HS and that likely was more about saving money.  I know several girls that tried out for DA and did not make the team.   I know half a dozen girls that left DA because they were not playing much (which I think was a smart choice).  Now I do agree that plenty of ECNL players would start and to a lesser degree some Flight 1 and Premier girls too.


Yup as a matter of fact I do! Not sure if that's good or bad but either way the fact still remains.


----------



## mirage (Nov 1, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Go ride your high horse off into the sunset!  Princeton is ranked 24th in the latest poll and Penn has a very strong program.   Georgetown is ranked 4th in D1!!!!  Cal Tech just started a D3 program this year. Little ivy Williams College is 2nd in the nation for D3!!!! John Hopkins is ranked 4th in D3.  Little Ivy Amherst is ranked 15th in D3.  UCSD is ranked 10th in D2 and has won multiple National Championships.  Duke’s average SAT is fricking 1475 and they are ranked 8th in D1.
> 
> Next time before you post, check your facts.


I believe MarkM is referring to men's program, which I am familiar with as a grad of one of the schools he lists.

That said, I believe, the statement is an over generalization.  There are some conference rules that prevents some of these schools to excel at sports.  Take Ivy for an example.  They have an agreement in the league that mandates the student athletes to be amongst the general cross section of their respective universities.  In other words, these student athletes, while may not be at the upper end of the university, must be good enough to be competitive with those accepted into the school without being being recruited.  Clearly, they have the resources to recruit anyone they wish, if all they focused was winning and building the best athletic program.

Its the last statement, that perhaps MarkM is getting at.  Without knowing the framework, it is a logical and intuitive conclusion to say athletics and academics compromise each other.  Beyond the Ivys, some of the upper D3's have much higher student athletes percentage than D1 or D2 as the total population of their student body (per NCAA).  And amongst those competing in D3, there are Olympic athletes as well as national team athletes.  So again, the image one gets at a glance is not necessarily accurate.  The point is its easy to over generalize this situation.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Nov 1, 2018)

MA0812 said:


> Yup as a matter of fact I do! Not sure if that's good or bad but either way the fact still remains.


So these 36 plus girls were on DA teams and solely left for HS or were actually offered DA and turned it down?   More likely you know girls from Blues where they decided to keep their top team in ECNL or girls on other ECNL teams that could have made DA if they had chosen to.  Just saying...


----------



## espola (Nov 1, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> So these 36 plus girls were on DA teams and solely left for HS or were actually offered DA and turned it down?   More likely you know girls from Blues where they decided to keep their top team in ECNL or girls on other ECNL teams that could have made DA if they had chosen to.  Just saying...


More likely?


----------



## younothat (Nov 1, 2018)

DA has been very good for my player but saying the program is like going to Harvard is crazy 

In General many people get hyped up to either get into or be apart of DA for the first season, after the new car spell wears off the reality it is not that much different or necessarily superior to other things in the overall scheme of things.   Being on a good HS, club team, with quality coaches & comps and maybe some outside work should be good for most players.  You can play up on other teams, club pass, in  tournaments and the like so look at the overall picture not just the DA title.

Some High Schools both public and private have some very good coaching, demanding, competitive programs where its sometime can be more difficult vs the DA track  considering your player can be competing vs others 2-3 yrs older.  My son as a Sophomore played HS on a permit / exception and he really enjoyed the season, playoffs, and overall experience.   The double practice days(s)  for a while (until the season started late Nov)  where really tough on him with the overlap so he decided on doing other sports in HS while continuing on with DA.

This may not be popular but the 4 days a week thing is overkill IMO for the majority of players;  3 days a week is  sufficient and the 4th should be optional IMO;  light training, watching film, strategy or tactics.   With all the on-line tools we have available a shared presentation can be attended virtually so families don't have to necessarily travel the extra day.

DA has been reducing the number of league games, showcases, events for the boys the last 2-3 years where its getting to the point where some are questioning the program where you spend 10 months for 20 odd games, one winter showcase if your past U15 (none that age) and the playoffs or summer showcase if you don't qualify.   Sure you get the flexibility of playing some out of league competitions but its a expensive proposition and not that may clubs can afford to send a team to Europe or mexico to play internationally.

I would like to see the DA restructure and change the program and I've talked about pro/rel for the teams before so I wont go into a again but the competition can be very uneven and it doesn't seem to change from year to year so I don't see the progress, sure the individual players are getting more skilled each year but the teams not as much.     There is a lack of qualified coaches on the boys side, there is not that many A & B types around and those that are often have to handle multiple teams so this is one area that needs a lot of work IMO.


----------



## espola (Nov 1, 2018)

younothat said:


> DA has been very good for my player but saying the program is like going to Harvard is crazy
> 
> In General many people get hyped up to either get into or be apart of DA for the first season, after the new car spell wears off the reality it is not that much different or necessarily superior to other things in the overall scheme of things.   Being on a good HS, club team, with quality coaches & comps and maybe some outside work should be good for most players.  You can play up on other teams, club pass, in  tournaments and the like so look at the overall picture not just the DA title.
> 
> ...


What was the reason for the permit/exception?


----------



## younothat (Nov 1, 2018)

espola said:


> What was the reason for the permit/exception?


Waiver was granted by DA since he was expected to participate in HS soccer as part of enrollment at this school.


----------



## espola (Nov 1, 2018)

younothat said:


> Waiver was granted by DA since he was expected to participate in HS soccer as part of enrollment at this school.


And they let him drop soccer for "other sports" the next year?


----------



## focomoso (Nov 1, 2018)

MarkM said:


> If the purpose of a kid playing soccer is to get into school, why do kids play once they get there?


Many, many don't. Even in my time, many athletes, once into the fancy school sports helped get them into, decide it's not so important to them anymore and quit. My understanding is that this happens even more now.


----------



## MarkM (Nov 1, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Go ride your high horse off into the sunset!  Princeton is ranked 24th in the latest poll and Penn has a very strong program.   Georgetown is ranked 4th in D1!!!!  Cal Tech just started a D3 program this year. Little ivy Williams College is 2nd in the nation for D3!!!! John Hopkins is ranked 4th in D3.  Little Ivy Amherst is ranked 15th in D3.  UCSD is ranked 10th in D2 and has won multiple National Championships.  Duke’s average SAT is fricking 1475 and they are ranked 8th in D1.
> 
> Next time before you post, check your facts.


You should have started with Stanford and Duke and maybe included UCLA and Cal.  Of course, I'm not talking about those schools.  As I mentioned, there are a handful of exceptions.  But even those schools are not football schools (the ultimate corrupter).  And Georgetown's athletic teams are generally pretty poor - worse than the Ivy League schools.  Women's soccer is the exception.   

Once you got down to D2 and D3 schools you lost me.  D2 and D3 schools decide not to devote resources to their athletic programs - that's what makes them D2 and D3.  So let's not pretend that USCD has good athletic programs - nor does it need them.  The soccer team you highlight is ranked behind, I kid you not, D2 powerhouses Colorado School Of Mines, Bemidji State and Barry. D3 is, well D3.  There is nothing wrong with it; I'm an advocate for their approach to athletics.  But for better or worse, those programs don't compare to most D1 institutions.


----------



## MarkM (Nov 1, 2018)

focomoso said:


> Many, many don't. Even in my time, many athletes, once into the fancy school sports helped get them into, decide it's not so important to them anymore and quit. My understanding is that this happens even more now.


Most do play - that's how those schools field teams - most of them have to even make cuts.  The ones that quit do so after it becomes clear that they won't ever play and want to devote their time elsewhere.  That's not the point though.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Nov 1, 2018)

MarkM said:


> You should have started with Stanford and Duke and maybe included UCLA and Cal.  Of course, I'm not talking about those schools.  As I mentioned, there are a handful of exceptions.  But even those schools are not football schools (the ultimate corrupter).  And Georgetown's athletic teams are generally pretty poor - worse than the Ivy League schools.  Women's soccer is the exception.
> 
> Once you got down to D2 and D3 schools you lost me.  D2 and D3 schools decide not to devote resources to their athletic programs - that's what makes them D2 and D3.  So let's not pretend that USCD has good athletic programs - nor does it need them.  The soccer team you highlight is ranked behind, I kid you not, D2 powerhouses Colorado School Of Mines, Bemidji State and Barry. D3 is, well D3.  There is nothing wrong with it; I'm an advocate for their approach to athletics.  But for better or worse, those programs don't compare to most D1 institutions.


Don't put down the academics at Colorado School of Mines.   That is an almost 100% engineering school with exceptional academics. 

_SmartAsset_: #1 Best Value Colleges in Colorado (#13 nationally)
_PayScale_: #7 in ROI and #22 in alumni earnings
_Wall Street Journal/Times Higher Education_: #1 for Public Schools in the West with highest salaries 10 years out
_Wall Street Journal_: #2 nationally for combining scholarly research with classroom instruction
_QS Global Ranking_: #1 in Mineral Mining Engineering
_US News & World Report_: #5 in Petroleum and #33 in Top Public Schools
_Forbes America’s Top Colleges_: #25 in the West; #29 among publics
#36 in High School Counselor Rankings; #44 in Undergraduate Engineering Programs; #55 in Graduate Engineering Programs; #82 in National Universities


----------



## MarkM (Nov 1, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Don't put down the academics at Colorado School of Mines.   That is an almost 100% engineering school with exceptional academics.
> 
> _SmartAsset_: #1 Best Value Colleges in Colorado (#13 nationally)
> _PayScale_: #7 in ROI and #22 in alumni earnings
> ...


LOL.  Is that directly from the school's website?  That's some funny stuff.  It's a ranked somewhere between 250-300 of colleges.   https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/colorado-school-mines  Yet, it does have a better women's soccer program than UCSD with only 1,200 students enrolled.  That's impressive.


----------



## Dos Equis (Nov 1, 2018)

MarkM said:


> You should have started with Stanford and Duke and maybe included UCLA and Cal.  Of course, I'm not talking about those schools.  As I mentioned, there are a handful of exceptions.  But even those schools are not football schools (the ultimate corrupter).  And Georgetown's athletic teams are generally pretty poor - worse than the Ivy League schools.  Women's soccer is the exception.
> 
> Once you got down to D2 and D3 schools you lost me.  D2 and D3 schools decide not to devote resources to their athletic programs - that's what makes them D2 and D3.  So let's not pretend that USCD has good athletic programs - nor does it need them.  The soccer team you highlight is ranked behind, I kid you not, D2 powerhouses Colorado School Of Mines, Bemidji State and Barry. D3 is, well D3.  There is nothing wrong with it; I'm an advocate for their approach to athletics.  But for better or worse, those programs don't compare to most D1 institutions.


Georgetown used to have a pretty good basketball team.  And Johns Hopkins has a pretty good D1 Lacrosse Team, last I checked.

As for the sports corrupting academics, schools like Georgia Tech, Purdue, Michigan, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, UNC, Texas, Rice, Villanova, Notre Dame ... I am finding too many exceptions for my hands of great academic schools that also have great sports programs.  Not all win at football, but there are other major sports. 

The exception in D1 is actually the Ivy league.


----------



## espola (Nov 1, 2018)

Dos Equis said:


> Georgetown used to have a pretty good basketball team.  And Johns Hopkins has a pretty good D1 Lacrosse Team, last I checked.
> 
> As for the sports corrupting academics, schools like Georgia Tech, Purdue, Michigan, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, UNC, Texas, Rice, Villanova, Notre Dame ... I am finding too many exceptions for my hands of great academic schools that also have great sports programs.  Not all win at football, but there are other major sports.
> 
> The exception in D1 is actually the Ivy league.


The Ivies are usually strong in ice hockey.  Cornell even figured out a clever way to cheat the Ivy prohibition on athletic scholarships - the New York State School of Agriculture is attached to the Cornell Campus for administrative, social (and thus athletic) functions, and has no qualms about issuing athletic scholarships to Canadian farm boys who know a little bit about hockey.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Nov 1, 2018)

MarkM said:


> LOL.  Is that directly from the school's website?  That's some funny stuff.  It's a ranked somewhere between 250-300 of colleges.   https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/colorado-school-mines  Yet, it does have a better women's soccer program than UCSD with only 1,200 students enrolled.  That's impressive.


Your an idiot.  That’s world rankings.  Even by your obscure rankings it’s 43 in the US competing against large universities while it’s a dedicated engineering school.


----------



## MarkM (Nov 1, 2018)

Dos Equis said:


> Georgetown used to have a pretty good basketball team.  And Johns Hopkins has a pretty good D1 Lacrosse Team, last I checked.
> 
> As for the sports corrupting academics, schools like Georgia Tech, Purdue, Michigan, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, UNC, Texas, Rice, Villanova, Notre Dame ... I am finding too many exceptions for my hands of great academic schools that also have great sports programs.  Not all win at football, but there are other major sports.
> 
> The exception in D1 is actually the Ivy league.


You are reaching with your list.  Many of the schools are not even in the top 50 colleges.  Purdue is not even in the top 100.  And when did schools like Rice, Vanderbilt, Purdue, G Tech become athletic powerhouses?  They play in big conferences, but they are historically below average athletic programs.  And Johns Hopkins' lacrosse?  I can't take you seriously.  You should have just gone full crazy and hyped Harvard's crew and fencing championships in rebuttal.  

Take the top 30 colleges in the country.  How many have good athletic programs?  5 or 6.  Maybe 7 or 8 in the top 40?


----------



## MarkM (Nov 1, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Your an idiot.  That’s world rankings.  Even by your obscure rankings it’s 43 in the US competing against large universities while it’s a dedicated engineering school.



It's 117 for colleges in the US, right below the Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology.  https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/3/#tab:rank


----------



## Dos Equis (Nov 1, 2018)

MarkM said:


> You are reaching with your list.  Many of the schools are not even in the top 50 colleges.  Purdue is not even in the top 100.  And when did schools like Rice, Vanderbilt, Purdue, G Tech become athletic powerhouses?  They play in big conferences, but they are historically below average athletic programs.  And Johns Hopkins' lacrosse?  I can't take you seriously.  You should have just gone full crazy and hyped Harvard's crew and fencing championships in rebuttal.
> 
> Take the top 30 colleges in the country.  How many have good athletic programs?  5 or 6.  Maybe 7 or 8 in the top 40?


I will assume ignorance and not stupidity.

Purdue is a top 5 engineering school in the  country, #2 ranked in term of graduate employment among Fortune 50o (Georgia Tech is #1, and have a pretty decent sports program with their facilities, courtesy of the 96 Olympics). Rice and Vandy are both National championship baseball programs, not to mention their lesser sports like tennis and bowling (that is a thing), or girls soccer for Vandy these days. Do not think they have fencing, they leave that to the Ivies.

Hopkins Lacrosse is good enough that the National Lacrosse hall of game is located on their campus. Last I checked the have won the Big 10 and been in the final four in the past 48 months, to add to their national championships from the recent past.

Top 30?  Only a fool thinks there is such a thing, believes it exists, and bases decisions or aeguments on it. Quit while you are  behind.


----------



## timbuck (Nov 1, 2018)

Just to try and make a bit of a joke:
If DA is like Harvard then;
ECNL is like Arizona State
DPL is like Chico State
SCDSL is like Cal Poly Pomona
Coast is like Cal State - Dominguez Hills.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Nov 1, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Just to try and make a bit of a joke:
> If DA is like Harvard then;
> ECNL is like Arizona State
> DPL is like Chico State
> ...


Hey, I went and played at CPP! It’s fine though. We sucked when I was there.


----------



## MijoPlumber (Nov 1, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> https://www.soccernation.com/why-does-the-development-academy-bar-players-from-high-school-soccer/
> 
> Someone is US Soccer is really getting too carried away...


Mija, this article is a perfect example of what is wrong with US soccer! Big inflated bla bla. DA is to Harvard like street taco in TJ is to prime Carne Asada in OC!!  A league that tries to control players and not let them play for their school has wrong agenda. This why so many have left DA after first year.


----------



## Desert Hound (Nov 2, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Just to try and make a bit of a joke:
> If DA is like Harvard then;
> ECNL is like Arizona State
> DPL is like Chico State
> ...


Go Devils!

As one of my professors there long ago said sarcastically as he handed out tests back to us..."ASU is the Harvard of the West".


----------



## focomoso (Nov 2, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Don't put down the academics at Colorado School of Mines.   That is an almost 100% engineering school with exceptional academics.


I wonder how often the admissions office asks the the board to change the school's name? "Colorado School of Engineering" might make recruitment easier...


----------



## jpeter (Nov 2, 2018)

Ironically, Harvard suspended men's soccer season for vulgar 'scouting report' couple of seasons back:
http://amp.si.com/more-sports/2016/11/04/harvard-mens-soccer-team-suspended


----------



## espola (Nov 2, 2018)

focomoso said:


> I wonder how often the admissions office asks the the board to change the school's name? "Colorado School of Engineering" might make recruitment easier...


Tradition counts heavily among alumni.

Plus - "School of Mines" looks cool on a hoodie.


----------



## Multi Sport (Nov 2, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Just to try and make a bit of a joke:
> If DA is like Harvard then;
> ECNL is like Arizona State
> DPL is like Chico State
> ...


Cal Poly Pomona is one of the top Landscape Architecture schools in the country.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Nov 2, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Cal Poly Pomona is one of the top Landscape Architecture schools in the country.


Founders of In-N-Out all went there too...

Hospitality Program is ranked very high as well. Use to be known for their Engineering Program but don't think that's the case any longer.


----------



## timbuck (Nov 2, 2018)

Harvard made some other interesting headlines in the past few weeks:
"Harvard's Gatekeeper Reveals SAT Cutoff Scores Based on Race"
https://nypost.com/2018/10/17/harvards-gatekeeper-reveals-sat-cutoff-scores-based-on-race/


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## Simisoccerfan (Nov 2, 2018)

MarkM said:


> It's 117 for colleges in the US, right below the Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology.  https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/3/#tab:rank


What you did not like me quoting the website you used so you needed to find another one that makes your point!


----------



## Multi Sport (Nov 2, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Founders of In-N-Out all went there too...
> 
> Hospitality Program is ranked very high as well. Use to be known for their Engineering Program but don't think that's the case any longer.


Still is..


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Nov 2, 2018)

Mark M, where did you go to college?


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Nov 2, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Still is..


Good to know. I have not been on campus in 10+ years and totally out of the loop.


----------



## Multi Sport (Nov 2, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Founders of In-N-Out all went there too...
> 
> Hospitality Program is ranked very high as well. Use to be known for their Engineering Program but don't think that's the case any longer.


Son's Girlfriend graduated from there in Food Services and is now a GM. Good program for both...


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Nov 2, 2018)

CPP is one of the schools I have been hiring engineers from for years.   Still a good quality engineering program.


----------



## focomoso (Nov 2, 2018)

espola said:


> Tradition counts heavily among alumni.
> 
> Plus - "School of Mines" looks cool on a hoodie.


Well, these days, it's: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/N4msxTbwk60/maxresdefault.jpg


----------



## Dummy (Nov 2, 2018)

Dos Equis said:


> I will assume ignorance and not stupidity.
> 
> Purdue is a top 5 engineering school in the  country, #2 ranked in term of graduate employment among Fortune 50o (Georgia Tech is #1, and have a pretty decent sports program with their facilities, courtesy of the 96 Olympics). Rice and Vandy are both National championship baseball programs, not to mention their lesser sports like tennis and bowling (that is a thing), or girls soccer for Vandy these days. Do not think they have fencing, they leave that to the Ivies.
> 
> ...


My impression is that the original point in MarkM’s post is that academics and athletics get conflated, and for the majority of student athletes and the academic institution itself, this usually is detrimental to things academic.  For the small number of truly outstanding athletes, too much time spent on academics is probably harmful to their athletic development, which makes sense too when considering how clubs develop soccer players and other athletes in Europe. Obviously, for the truly gifted, none of this may matter.

Somehow, this all turned into a circular pissing contest about various college rankings.  Yuk.

When reflecting on the original assertion that DA is like Harvard, it is probably true in the sense that both are overrated.


----------



## MarkM (Nov 2, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> What you did not like me quoting the website you used so you needed to find another one that makes your point!


Relax.  It was ranked 178th in the US on the first website I referenced.  It was 117 on the Forbes list.  I'm not an engineer, but I believe 117 comes before 178.  You can refer to either list.  And my point was never to knock the school's academics, it was to knock your comment that UCSD is a powerhouse at soccer when it is not even as good as a tiny engineering school.  You turned it into academics.


----------



## Not_that_Serious (Nov 2, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Cal Poly Pomona is one of the top Landscape Architecture schools in the country.


Probably best budget Engineering school in So Cal - actually have to know how to make things work before you graduate.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Nov 2, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Probably best budget Engineering school in So Cal - actually have to know how to make things work before you graduate.


I'm sure it is! When I went there it was roughly less than $500 a quarter with tuition, books, and parking. Man, I just aged myself. I'm beginning to sound like "E"spola....


----------



## espola (Nov 2, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I'm sure it is! When I went there it was roughly less than $500 a quarter with tuition, books, and parking. Man, I just aged myself. I'm beginning to sound like "E"spola....


I finished my Bachelor's Degree at San Diego State in 1980, after three + 1/2 years college and 8 years Navy.  The GI Bill of that time paid me more each month for half-time study than my semester half-load tuition.  Parking was more expensive than tuition (no discount for night-class half-load parkers).


----------



## Kicker4Life (Nov 2, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I'm sure it is! When I went there it was roughly less than $500 a quarter with tuition, books, and parking. Man, I just aged myself. I'm beginning to sound like "E"spola....


Not really...you mentioned Parking.....pretty sure he graduated before the automobile became mainstream.


----------



## USA_SOCCER_1 (Nov 2, 2018)

espola said:


> How many gridiron football scholarships do they award?


Probably the maximum number allowed by the NCAA (whatever that is) but then again gridiron football is the number one money making sport in my university and most others as well, I believe.


----------



## espola (Nov 2, 2018)

USA_SOCCER_1 said:


> Probably the maximum number allowed by the NCAA (whatever that is) but then again gridiron football is the number one money making sport in my university and most others as well, I believe.


And that is why all the other sports are unbalanced.


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## USA_SOCCER_1 (Nov 2, 2018)

espola said:


> And that is why all the other sports are unbalanced.


I don’t really know what you mean by “unbalanced.”  But historically, gridiron football has basically generated the revenue that paid for the other sports.


----------



## focomoso (Nov 2, 2018)

USA_SOCCER_1 said:


> I don’t really know what you mean by “unbalanced.”  But historically, gridiron football has basically generated the revenue that paid for the other sports.


Unbalanced between men and women. Title IX requires the same number of scholarships be issued to women as men. If a school has 85 (yes 85 in the "bowl" subdivision) full ride scholarships for football, all going to men, that leaves 85 more scholarships available to women playing other sports (like soccer).


----------



## MarkM (Nov 2, 2018)

espola said:


> And that is why all the other sports are unbalanced.


It's not the scholarships, it's the total number of male athletes (regardless of scholarships).  Football has a lot participants, so that's what creates the imbalance.  The same imbalance exists at non-scholarship schools if the school participates in football.


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## espola (Nov 2, 2018)

focomoso said:


> Unbalanced between men and women. Title IX requires the same number of scholarships be issued to women as men. If a school has 85 (yes 85 in the "bowl" subdivision) full ride scholarships for football, all going to men, that leaves 85 more scholarships available to women playing other sports (like soccer).


I agree with the spirit of that, but the "same number" thing includes factors like relative gender population of the school, demand, student support, etc.


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## outside! (Nov 3, 2018)

USA_SOCCER_1 said:


> Probably the maximum number allowed by the NCAA (whatever that is) but then again gridiron football is the number one money making sport in my university and most others as well, I believe.


Most college football programs lose money. The big football schools make a bunch of money from football, but again, most schools lose money on football (and all the other sports).


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## USA_SOCCER_1 (Nov 4, 2018)

K


outside! said:


> Most college football programs lose money. The big football schools make a bunch of money from football, but again, most schools lose money on football (and all the other sports).


Mine doesn’t. (Lose money on football I mean).  Also, a nice win last night (48-3) and another rise in the polls.  GO DOGS!!


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## MarkM (Nov 4, 2018)

USA_SOCCER_1 said:


> K
> 
> Mine doesn’t. (Lose money on football I mean).  Also, a nice win last night (48-3) and another rise in the polls.  GO DOGS!!


With Tedford as coach, things could quickly change.  He is demanding the same "investments" in the program as he did at Cal after a few successful seasons.  That, of course, created the current disaster that is Cal's athletic budget.  Fresno State needs to solve its game attendance problems to increase gate receipts.  A few successful seasons could go a long way.


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## Simisoccerfan (Nov 4, 2018)

focomoso said:


> Unbalanced between men and women. Title IX requires the same number of scholarships be issued to women as men. If a school has 85 (yes 85 in the "bowl" subdivision) full ride scholarships for football, all going to men, that leaves 85 more scholarships available to women playing other sports (like soccer).


Title IX has nothing to do with scholarships and doesn’t require what your stating.


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## focomoso (Nov 5, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Title IX has nothing to do with scholarships and doesn’t require what your stating.


From the NCAA site:


> Athletics programs are considered educational programs and activities. There are three basic parts of Title IX as it applies to athletics:
> 
> 
> Participation: Title IX requires that women and men be provided equitable opportunities to participate in sports. Title IX does not require institutions to offer identical sports but an equal opportunity to play;
> ...


As participation equals out (which is an explicit goal of the NCAA) scholarship money also equals out.


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## USA_SOCCER_1 (Nov 5, 2018)

MarkM said:


> With Tedford as coach, things could quickly change.  He is demanding the same "investments" in the program as he did at Cal after a few successful seasons.  That, of course, created the current disaster that is Cal's athletic budget.  Fresno State needs to solve its game attendance problems to increase gate receipts.  A few successful seasons could go a long way.


Attendance has definitely been going back up in the Tedford era. We do need to start filling the stadium again though to solve some of the fiscal issues.


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## Simisoccerfan (Nov 5, 2018)

focomoso said:


> From the NCAA site:
> 
> 
> As participation equals out (which is an explicit goal of the NCAA) scholarship money also equals out.


Nope.  You forgot that the NCAA also puts a cap on the maximum of scholarships that can be offered per sport.   There is no women's sport that has the same number of players as football.   From a participation and other benefits standpoint men and women's sports equal out.  But from a scholarship standpoint it is proportional to their participation and affect by the scholarship caps.


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## MarkM (Nov 8, 2018)

Dos Equis said:


> I will assume ignorance and not stupidity.
> 
> Purdue is a top 5 engineering school in the  country, #2 ranked in term of graduate employment among Fortune 50o (Georgia Tech is #1, and have a pretty decent sports program with their facilities, courtesy of the 96 Olympics). Rice and Vandy are both National championship baseball programs, not to mention their lesser sports like tennis and bowling (that is a thing), or girls soccer for Vandy these days. Do not think they have fencing, they leave that to the Ivies.
> 
> ...


Dos Equis - you need to chill and have a beer . . . or maybe not.  John Hopkins is D3 athletic program.  In other words, John Hopkins doesn't devote a lot of resources towards athletics.  That, of course, supports my point.  But yes, you are right.  They do participate in D1 lacrosse (the only sport).  And no offense to lacrosse, but it's lacrosse.  It remains a small sport played by very few D1 schools.  Only 2 schools not located on the east coast play D1 lacrosse and none in California.  For Pete's sake, a non-scholarship school won the D1 championship last year.  

As for Purdue, an overwhelming majority of the students are not in the engineering program so it's not even relevant.  You cannot make 75% of the campus disappear.  That's just silly.  Forbes ranked Purdue the 126 best college, not me.   According to US New and World Report, it only ranked 56 among national universities, behind 6 universities in California alone.  Come on, man; it's tied with freakin Ohio State.  You could have picked some good examples - Purdue just isn't one of them.

It's especially funny though that you would rely on engineering rankings, but suggest that rankings for colleges don't exist or don't believe they are valid.  Good luck with that one.


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## Multi Sport (Nov 8, 2018)

MarkM said:


> Dos Equis - you need to chill and have a beer . . . or maybe not.  John Hopkins is D3 athletic program.  In other words, John Hopkins doesn't devote a lot of resources towards athletics.  That, of course, supports my point.  But yes, you are right.  They do participate in D1 lacrosse (the only sport).  And no offense to lacrosse, but it's lacrosse.  It remains a small sport played by very few D1 schools.  Only 2 schools not located on the east coast play D1 lacrosse and none in California.  For Pete's sake, a non-scholarship school won the D1 championship last year.
> 
> As for Purdue, an overwhelming majority of the students are not in the engineering program so it's not even relevant.  You cannot make 75% of the campus disappear.  That's just silly.  Forbes ranked Purdue the 126 best college, not me.   According to US New and World Report, it only ranked 56 among national universities, behind 6 universities in California alone.  Come on, man; it's tied with freakin Ohio State.  You could have picked some good examples - Purdue just isn't one of them.
> 
> It's especially funny though that you would rely on engineering rankings, but suggest that rankings for colleges don't exist or don't believe they are valid.  Good luck with that one.


Not sure if have kids in college or not but some of these schools that you consider lesser athletic programs devote a rather a good proportion of their $$ to their athletic programs.


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## MarkM (Nov 8, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Not sure if have kids in college or not but some of these schools that you consider lesser athletic programs devote a rather a good proportion of their $$ to their athletic programs.


Which schools?


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## Kicknit22 (Nov 8, 2018)

Back on topic.....DA is just plain Bullshit!  Particularly for age group 2003 and older.  What’s the point?  So called “Talent ID Cinics” are focused on 04/05.  Conflict for HS age groups shouldn’t be part of the equation.  As far as College exposure, well, I don’t see how this provides a better platform than what ECNL was already providing, without the HUGE downside of NO HS rule!  Great idea USSF, burn them out because we don’t really give a shit about them anyway.


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## Multi Sport (Nov 8, 2018)

MarkM said:


> Which schools?


Take a look at some of the small NAIA schools. Smaller budgets but still have nice sports facilities. Southern Oregon has a very nice facility and George Fox , DIII, does as well. Just because a school is DII, DIII or NAIA does not mean the athletes who attend don't expect good training and sports facilities.


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## Zerodenero (Nov 8, 2018)

As a parent of a player at attending/playing women’s soccer at a Big 3 Ivy......I’m compelled to throw in my quick 2 cents:

*The article garnered attention, so while the article is a stretch, at a minimum, it got you/us and many other parents, especially at the critical younger ages thinking/contemplating....”what league/path do we go”??

*My DD was an ECNL player. She was never the best player, rarely received accolades, but good enough to play with and against the best in her age group week in/week out. ECNL provided the national exposure and attention that without, she realistically may not have attracted.

* The authors premise/analogy of a student leaving Harvard to attend Buttknuckle State U is kin to pulling out for HS soccer is compelling — but laughably false...... In our situation, my DD’s unobstructed ability to play HS soccer opened the door for her to attend a college prep HS, which became a huge contributor/fostered the critical thinking skills/class load endurance/emotional & social intelligence required to be recruited/attend Harvard, Princeton or Yale.

So .....as bad as HS soccer play can be, is it a bad idea for a player to have the option to play HS if they choose? 

My Ivy League, engineering major, student athlete soccer player would probably say no.


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## Sheriff Joe (Nov 9, 2018)

Zerodenero said:


> As a parent of a player at attending/playing women’s soccer at a Big 3 Ivy......I’m compelled to throw in my quick 2 cents:
> 
> *The article garnered attention, so while the article is a stretch, at a minimum, it got you/us and many other parents, especially at the critical younger ages thinking/contemplating....”what league/path do we go”??
> 
> ...


Nice, so her mom is smart and athletic?
She must have gotten her looks from you.
My little one would not ever contemplate bagging HS.
Great Job dad.


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## Zerodenero (Nov 9, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Nice, so her mom is smart and athletic?
> She must have gotten her looks from you.
> My little one would not ever contemplate bagging HS.
> Great Job dad.


Lol.....I married up. Without a doubt.


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