# Player Development vs Super Team Chasing?



## Night Owl (Apr 17, 2018)

I have a 2001 son that has been on same team since it started back at U8/U9. We been through hard times, team politics, age group break ups, super star players that expect everything, some seasons my son played and some was a bencher, But always following coaches directions, work for your position and we the parents stayed away since we are not experts. 

As a SoCal average soccer family with 3 children playing, we feel our son has “Followed the developement process” and watch so many players chase the “Dream Team”. We have seen that playing in a team that is high on the ranking will not develope your child and having the coaching parent on the sidelines destroys the focus.

We now see the club jumpers at a level that is equal or lower and some just gave just playing high school soccer. Was it worth it?

Our son is committed toD1 college, have tough him to work hard for everything and most important “Do not run away from anything in life unless it’s unhealthy”!

Parents, what are you teaching your children? Run away when you don’t get your way? Do not blame your children when they are grown up, jumping from job to job, getting divorced all the time and still living at home in their 30’s.


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## outside! (Apr 17, 2018)

Congrats to your son. He has been lucky to have a team worth staying on all these years. There are people that jump teams too often, but there are also those who do not have much choice (sometimes due to other players jumping teams).


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## Mystery Train (Apr 17, 2018)

outside! said:


> Congrats to your son. He has been lucky to have a team worth staying on all these years. There are people that jump teams too often, but there are also those who do not have much choice (sometimes due to other players jumping teams).


Or the club you are at enforcing a disastrous coaching change.

Staying together (if you have a good coach) is always preferable for development purposes, in my eyes.  But given that the good ones are rare and that not all parents agree on what makes a good coach, it makes sticking together rare.  @Night Owl Congrats and good luck to your son.


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## mirage (Apr 17, 2018)

Night Owl said:


> I have a 2001 son that has been on same team since it started back at U8/U9.........
> 
> Our son is committed toD1 college, have tough him to work hard for everything and most important “Do not run away from anything in life unless it’s unhealthy”!
> 
> Parents, what are you teaching your children? Run away when you don’t get your way? Do not blame your children when they are grown up, jumping from job to job, getting divorced all the time and still living at home in their 30’s.


Congrats!  Mission accomplished - way to go!!

I have a son playing in college and is on the Provost Honors since the first term in college, and a 2002 playing club now.  I know hard and what it takes to get a kid matched with desired school and get that school to recruit the player.  We turned down several offers that simply didn't support my kids educational desires.

The thing is though, there are legitimate reasons to change clubs and teams.  Not necessarily because of what you call the Super Team, but what a high profile teams offers in terms of exposure to the coaches.  I'm sure you'll agree with me that vast majority of the teams don't get accepted to Dallas Cup, Disney Showcase, or even local Surf Cup.  One has to get onto a team the "system" accepts.  Nothing to do with development.  The other option is to get onto a DA team, where the exposure is maximum.

As for how the behavior carries over to adulthood and real life, well, there are bad marriages, as well as jobs, and there's no point to continue with a dead-ended situation.  So lets not over generalize and extend the behavior beyond your success story.  Its fantastic that your kid has found a college he likes and gets to play.  I know it means a lot to my kid.

Just don't want to paint the picture that staying on the same team is the answer or that changing is bad in general.  In fact there are more data to prove changing coaches every couple of years enables development better than staying with the same coach for years by exposing the players to new approaches and thinking.

Our older son changed clubs 4 times since U10 to U18 and never burned a bridge.  Every coach is a positive reference for him.  His longest was 4 years with one team and the shortest was a year (last year prior to going to college).  His high school years was bit transient due to playing DA and wanting to play high school, so we did a back and forth but again its to work within the system.


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## MWN (Apr 17, 2018)

We are in a situation where by all accounts the outside world would view us as club jumpers, moving clubs almost every year the last 3 years.  We have to consider 2 coaches, the team coach and the GK coach.

2015/16 - Club 1 - Left team after season because DOC required GK's to train with club and not private coaches (for fear of having players poached).  Liked coach, disliked DOC policy.

2016 - Club 2 - Invited to play for team in need of GK for National Cup run 60 miles away (the boy wasn't cup tied).  We had to join to play for the National Cup stint, everybody knew our intention was to stay local for the following season.

2016/17 - Club 3 - New club great, but crowded at GK and team was low level.  After season.  Left team b/c another team asked him to play up a year on a higher level team.

17/2018 - Club 4 - Fully intending to stay with our team this year, my boy has now been asked to attend a tryout for a middle of the road flight 1 team (Club 5) that would have him playing 2 years up.  He will likely get the invitation to join given the fact that he has practiced with this coach multiple times, the tryout is basically a formality and there is a HS connection to this coach.  The additional benefit is that the higher level team will attend numerous college showcases, whereas his current team will not attend any.

So our decision is stay were he is at (likely splitting time with another keeper for political reason ... "you play a half and he plays a half regardless of score/need to win") and develop at a slower pace with an average (at best) GK coach *or *move and develop at a much quicker pace with a better GK coach, but risk more serious injury and have a tougher time socializing (15 year old hanging out with 17 year olds).  Decisions, decisions, decisions.

It does not escape me that his new teammates will be driving and he won't.  I like the fact that carpool opportunities may exist with these older boys.  If he does move, then he will likely be on another team or new club next year because most of these boys will be in college next year and will age out of club soccer, which will make us jumpers once again.


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## socalkdg (Apr 17, 2018)

MWN said:


> We are in a situation where by all accounts the outside world would view us as club jumpers, moving clubs almost every year the last 3 years.  We have to consider 2 coaches, the team coach and the GK coach.
> 
> 2015/16 - Club 1 - Left team after season because DOC required GK's to train with club and not private coaches (for fear of having players poached).  Liked coach, disliked DOC policy.
> 
> ...


How much of the decision is left to your son, and how much was decided by you?


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## MWN (Apr 17, 2018)

socalkdg said:


> How much of the decision is left to your son, and how much was decided by you?


A few years ago it was 80% mine.  Now that he is older its 80% his, I hold veto rights from a monetary and logistics point of view and if I don't think the situation is right for him I will exercise the veto, but ultimately he is now at the critical stage where he has to enjoy it otherwise he will walk away from soccer.  His college is paid for, so we don't need to chase a scholarship ... but it would be nice.  I just want him to enjoy playing what is the toughest position (mentally) on the pitch.  He has to want it.


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## Grace T. (Apr 17, 2018)

MWN said:


> 2015/16 - Club 1 - Left team after season because DOC required GK's to train with club and not private coaches (for fear of having players poached).  Liked coach, disliked DOC policy.


The no GK trainer thing would be a deal killer for me at any club (no matter how desperate we are for it or to break into that next level).  My son has a trainer now who is the best of the best and who catches little things neither I nor his old club trainer would have every caught.  The once a week has done more to progress his playing than anything.   I rather go to a club without free GK training than give him up.  (Besides, old club has had 4 GK coaches in 1 year...currently his old field trainer is the GK trainer....great field trainer, has the GK basics, is up on the latest thinking but never played the position and misses some of the nuances an experienced GK might see). 

If DS stick with goalkeeping I'm resigned to be a club hopper.  If there are 2 GKs on a club it seems really unstable unless the 2 GKs are roughly equal caliber and the coach is willing to have them play a few minutes on the field.  If one GK outperforms the other, the coach is either going to be under pressure to give the stronger one more minutes, or the stronger one will resent having to share minutes with the weaker one "for political reasons".


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## Eagle33 (Apr 17, 2018)

Dom should really start a Goalkeeper forum


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## Mystery Train (Apr 17, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> Dom should really start a Goalkeeper forum


I second the motion.


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## MWN (Apr 17, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> Dom should really start a Goalkeeper forum


I say we give @Dominic 72 hours to start a GK specific section or we register socalsoccergk.com


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## pewpew (Apr 17, 2018)

Mystery Train said:


> I second the motion.


I've asked in the past for one as well. We only need one forum. Don't need DD/DS.
Share insight, info., etc.  Good deals on gear sub-forum. Because let's face it..most players need two uniform kits and boots as needed. Gks need gloves replaced as needed and their padded gear (pants,under-jersey,etc)  based on wear and tear.  Constant training on turf only makes it worse. 
Glove reviews would be another  useful sub-forum in the GK forum.


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## C.A.M. (Apr 17, 2018)

We do need a GK forum.   No sex or age differation.   

The GK journey is different.   Mine is 12 and has been in 6 different situations,  some better than others. 

One thing for sure,  must have a high level full time goal keeper trainer.   Must have a trainer that respects the keepers strengths and improves the weaknesses.  

We choose his teams by GK coach more than anything else.  Both my kids choose their clubs unless the situation is untenable.


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## OCsoccerdad7777 (Apr 17, 2018)

Night Owl said:


> I have a 2001 son that has been on same team since it started back at U8/U9. We been through hard times, team politics, age group break ups, super star players that expect everything, some seasons my son played and some was a bencher, But always following coaches directions, work for your position and we the parents stayed away since we are not experts.
> 
> As a SoCal average soccer family with 3 children playing, we feel our son has “Followed the developement process” and watch so many players chase the “Dream Team”. We have seen that playing in a team that is high on the ranking will not develope your child and having the coaching parent on the sidelines destroys the focus.
> 
> ...


I would say there are many factors as listed above by others. Sometimes you just mess up on choosing a team. Sometimes clubs and/or coaches will lie and say whatever to get you on the team and then is completely opposite. One time the age group change forced a change.

If your kid is in the top, I would jump to a team that had a good record, because I know something is being done somewhat to get that record. Winning record doesn't always mean you have a good coach that teaches development. 
How that is done and what you like as a fit has to be seen in person not by record only.
But the first step to narrow down teams for me peraonally would be to check out record or competitiveness.
Ultimately for me, keep jumping until your kid finds a team they like and coach is actually developing but with actions not words like they ALL say. No loyalty needed to a club or coach but once you do start, finish the season unless there is a special circumstance.
Nothing wrong with club hopping if you are not happy. Those that ONLY chase trophies will eventually be obvious.


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## younothat (Apr 18, 2018)

Hindsight is generally 20/20 but the focus should always be on players development.    If your player followed a process or got to were they wanted to at the end   I would be happy for them   the journey can be fun also not just the destination.

Somethings just happen and piloting a course at the young ages can lead to high expectations and stress of things don't plan out.   One thing I tried to do is have my kid(s) set their expectations, tell me where they wanted to play, what coaches, teammates, clubs they are interested in.

Can be fun to stay with the same group of players for x amount of time, be on a  "allstar", "stacked", full sponsored  team, win a lot, play in all the tournaments etc. and everybody kind of chases that, but I will tell you that gets old sooner or later and most kids need change:  new coaches,  environments, teammates at some point to keep growing.   Some times being on a lesser team is beneficial to certain players as they develop, they work harder and don't rely on a teammates to always step up like you sometimes see with "stacked" teams.

The coaching &  training is the most important thing followed by the competition you play in, everything else is up to the player(s) they all seem to find there level eventually. Letting  player(s)  find their own way and helping out when needed with transportation or whatever has worked for my kids.   My daughter has her pick of colleges due to her academics, social work, and citizenship.  She didn't go after a soccer scholarship because he wants to focus on her education, I'm very happy for her because I know she will be successful and youth soccer has been a great experience for her all these years.


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## Dominic (Apr 18, 2018)

I will give it a shot.


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## Mystery Train (Apr 18, 2018)

Dominic said:


> I will give it a shot.


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## focomoso (Apr 20, 2018)

younothat said:


> Some times being on a lesser team is beneficial to certain players as they develop, they work harder and don't rely on a teammates to always step up like you sometimes see with "stacked" teams.


I'm starting to believe this more and more. We're fairly new in all this, but I've always tried to get my son on the best team he can - playing up whenever possible - and it's true that the level of play in practices is high and makes him improve, but I'm seeing now that he's starting to pass responsibility on to his teammates. Because they're so good, he doesn't have to try as hard himself. He's now practicing with a team in his own age group and I'm seeing him take on more responsibility which I think is going to help him in the long run.


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## outside! (Apr 20, 2018)

focomoso said:


> I'm starting to believe this more and more. We're fairly new in all this, but I've always tried to get my son on the best team he can - playing up whenever possible - and it's true that the level of play in practices is high and makes him improve, but I'm seeing now that he's starting to pass responsibility on to his teammates. Because they're so good, he doesn't have to try as hard himself. He's now practicing with a team in his own age group and I'm seeing him take on more responsibility which I think is going to help him in the long run.


I am a bit ambivalent about High School, but it can serve this purpose for players from high level teams.


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## OrangeCountyDad (Apr 20, 2018)

have a buddy in the IE.  His daughter tried out somewhere, all kids get assigned based on skill, flight 1/2/3/whatever.  Some parents get all mad "My daughter isn't a flight 2 player!" and leave to find a new club.

Dude.  your kid is 10.  at that age, play time and touches are more important than a label.

I'll go with the coach who can make my kid better.  I don't care about wins.  Left a team because a coach played favorites and was abusive.  They won all the time, but kid was miserable.


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## Keepermom2 (Apr 21, 2018)

Dominic said:


> I will give it a shot.


Thank you Dominic!  I almost missed that you created the forum until I was scrolling down the forums to get to the age forums and happened to see it.  Yay!


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## Night Owl (Apr 21, 2018)

I have seen parents drag there kid away crying and yelling they do not want to leave the team.
I seen others jumping clubs looking for that free ride until they realize talent only gets you so far.


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## CoachMike (Apr 22, 2018)

OrangeCountyDad said:


> have a buddy in the IE.  His daughter tried out somewhere, all kids get assigned based on skill, flight 1/2/3/whatever.  Some parents get all mad "My daughter isn't a flight 2 player!" and leave to find a new club.
> 
> Dude.  your kid is 10.  at that age, play time and touches are more important than a label.
> 
> I'll go with the coach who can make my kid better.  I don't care about wins.  Left a team because a coach played favorites and was abusive.  They won all the time, but kid was miserable.


Wish more parents would think like you!... At the end of the day, if you want your kid to get scouted he's going to look at the player not the results of a team.


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## OrangeCountyDad (May 6, 2018)

CoachMike said:


> Wish more parents would think like you!... At the end of the day, if you want your kid to get scouted he's going to look at the player not the results of a team.


plus, at 10 - how many of those kids are going to play in 5 years?  maybe 1/2?


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## INFAMEE (May 6, 2018)

" I'm sure you'll agree with me that vast majority of the teams don't get accepted to Dallas Cup, Disney Showcase, or even local Surf Cup. One has to get onto a team the "system" accepts. Nothing to do with development. The other option is to get onto a DA team, where the exposure is maximum."

and here's the real spilt.


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## Eagle33 (May 7, 2018)

OrangeCountyDad said:


> Dude.  your kid is 10.  at that age, play time and touches are more important than a label.


At ANY age, play time and touches are more important than a team name or level.


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## Chalklines (May 7, 2018)

I'm all for changing clubs if a players not being pushed to their full potential at any age for any sport.

Remember, we are the ones paying for this. If our kids are screwing around and half assing it that's on the coach. That's a bad environment for growth. These super teams tend to stack rosters and only get better because each kids gets pushed daily to keep a starting roster spot.

With that being said, parents also need to be honest about their players. Don't chase wins but chase the proper environment for your kids.


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## mirage (May 8, 2018)

Chalklines said:


> ..........If our kids are screwing around and half assing it that's on the coach. That's a bad environment for growth.........


Ummmm, just want to clarify.  Are you really putting this on the coach???  Or do you mean something else?

If my kids are screwing around and half assing it, its on them, not the coach.  Either get with the program or get out.  Initiative and desire, not external authority and demands to do what they are supposed to be working on.


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## timbuck (May 8, 2018)

mirage said:


> Ummmm, just want to clarify.  Are you really putting this on the coach???  Or do you mean something else?
> 
> If my kids are screwing around and half assing it, its on them, not the coach.  Either get with the program or get out.  Initiative and desire, not external authority and demands to do what they are supposed to be working on.


Yep.  A coach putting a ton of pressure on a kid that prefers to screw around will provide a short-term fix.  But over the long-haul, it's on the player.


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## Sheriff Joe (May 8, 2018)

mirage said:


> Ummmm, just want to clarify.  Are you really putting this on the coach???  Or do you mean something else?
> 
> If my kids are screwing around and half assing it, its on them, not the coach.  Either get with the program or get out.  Initiative and desire, not external authority and demands to do what they are supposed to be working on.


If the player respects the coach they won't mess around, there is plenty of blame to go around. That said, it only takes 1 or 2 kids to mess things up, then it's up to the coach to take care of it.
Last but not least, lets ban players from using there phones before practice and games.


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## mirage (May 8, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> If the player respects the coach they won't mess around, there is plenty of blame to go around. That said, it only takes 1 or 2 kids to mess things up, then it's up to the coach to take care of it.
> Last but not least, lets ban players from using there phones before practice and games.


Clearly from a different generation perspective.  Take names and kick a$$.  

Most today's kids can have respect for the coach but will not occur to them to behave differently.  Simply those thoughts do not enter their mind.

As for banning using their phones (its really their being), well, you need to get over that too....


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## Sheriff Joe (May 8, 2018)

mirage said:


> As for banning using their phones (its really their being), well, you need to get over that too....


What are you doing on your phone during class?

I am 55 and you sound just like my daughter.
Not disagreeing, but just sayin.


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## mirage (May 8, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> What are you doing on your phone during class?
> 
> I am 55 and you sound just like my daughter.
> Not disagreeing, but just sayin.


Thank you!!!!  Nice to be confused for a youngen.  

I am actually older than you.  How do you think I noticed your reaction....


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## Sheriff Joe (May 8, 2018)

mirage said:


> Thank you!!!!  Nice to be confused for a youngen.
> 
> I am actually older than you.  How do you think I noticed your reaction....


It seems you are a little more pliable than I or you just gave up.


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## mirage (May 8, 2018)

LOL, I suppose pliable (though my wife would differ probably). That's what happens when you have kids late in life. 

Still have one in HS and playing so bit longer to go.  Older one is playing college and doing quite well so just have to be pliable for few more years - then I can become more of curmudgeon.


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## Sheriff Joe (May 8, 2018)

mirage said:


> LOL, I suppose pliable (though my wife would differ probably). That's what happens when you have kids late in life.
> 
> Still have one in HS and playing so bit longer to go.  Older one is playing college and doing quite well so just have to be pliable for few more years - then I can become more of curmudgeon.


I have a female freshman at this point.


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## Keepermom2 (May 9, 2018)

mirage said:


> Ummmm, just want to clarify.  Are you really putting this on the coach???  Or do you mean something else?
> 
> If my kids are screwing around and half assing it, its on them, not the coach.  Either get with the program or get out.  Initiative and desire, not external authority and demands to do what they are supposed to be working on.


Agree totally and my kid has gotten an ear full on the way home from practice for it too.  The conversation goes something like..."If I am going to spend my money and my time you better be giving it your all.  I don't look at mistakes.  I can tell you were not working hard.  If you don't want to work hard then lets play recreational soccer and call it a day."


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## Mr8A (May 9, 2018)

Who can relate to this ......players that is always missing practice due to "Not feeling Well", "Has a School function" or the so call "Impact Player" that shows up when he feels like, most likely getting financial help and gets all the playing time.


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## Luis Andres (Sep 28, 2019)

Interesting topic here. For me it’s not about player development vs chasing the super team. It’s not about winning vs development. It’s about finding the right fit and environment  for the specific goals that your child has or if they are too young yet to have goals that you want for them if development is high on the list. Who is to say that a super team is not developing players as well as another so call “development over winning” team that simply preaches development over winning like an evangelist with a bible?

In fact they are the first ones to undermine the super teams and their success towards how they see the development process by claiming to say they just teach kick ball and win at all costs? Is that all they really do to stay successful in always building competitive teams with the right fit of competitive players? If I were to say that all these teams and coaches that say we strive to develop players to their full potential and don’t value winning games and trimming rosters are a package of mere sham sugar coated lies engulfed in BS. Can they really make the so call righteous claim to really be developing players equally and to their fullest potential if there is a huge talent gap in the roster because they don’t recruit or cut players and keep players around for so-called development purposes?  And risk the development of the majority of players by disrupting the balance for the development process of the “team” as a whole and in fairness to the unit. Are they really helping the team or are they creating more damage to the whole so-called development process. Could cutting and recruiting players also be looked as part of the development process? Could it be that the organizations with all the experience, research that take these kinds of measures really just understand the bigger picture better?

There is no such thing as an all 100% solution to the development vs winning issue. Could it be a compromise? Or should it really be more about narrowing the distribution gap between the best and the worst players so you can develop everyone equally thus making the team as a whole develop better and faster in the process.

Coaches have a limited time with a team to develop all players equally. So what do you do? Target the weak and screw the average and best players? Or target the best and screw the weak players? Or do you simply just mix it up equally which benefits the average and weak players but screws the best players on the team? It should be more about finding the balance for development time spent on different players while also attempting to balance the talent level of the roster to narrow the gap so you don’t have to keep robbing precious time from Peter to give to Paul. Having a narrow talent level difference in the roster allows you to maximize development efforts for the “team” which covers all players equally and fairly.

I respect the teams that make the necessary cuts and recruit the right players to keep the team’s talent fairly equal. I respect the teams that play possession soccer and at the same time value winning with the aim of exposing their players to the toughest competition possible to increase the rate of development of the process in respect to the development of the whole and not for the one. It’s not about keeping the individual player who had failed to develop and has fallen below the bar because he or she is not working as hard as the rest outside of team practice and feels entitled to play in games because they are part of the team. It’s about giving them the right opportunity they needed to find the right team that truly matches their goals and expectations  towards their own development process needs

The most important part of the development process is to have a clear and distinct definition and understanding of what development truly means to you and your kid. The word development is being thrown around so freely these days that I feel that most people don’t really quite understand what it really means anymore. Find the right fit and environment first that defines what development truly means to you and make sure that the team has the same values and beliefs towards the process. Could it be why or why not? Calling out Docs?


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## Kicknit22 (Sep 28, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Interesting topic here. For me it’s not about player development vs chasing the super team. It’s not about winning vs development. It’s about finding the right fit and environment  for the specific goals that your child has or if they are too young yet to have goals that you want for them if development is high on the list. Who is to say that a super team is not developing players as well as another team that all they do is preach is development over winning and are the first to undermine the big teams and their success towards the development process? Why because some say they teach kick ball and win at all costs? Is that all they really do to stay successful? What if I were to say that all these teams and coaches that say we strive to develop players to their full potential is a mere sham sugar coated lie that is full of BS. Are they really developing players equally if there is a huge gap in talent in the roster because they don’t recruit or cut players and keep players around to so call develop them and sacrifice the development of the majority of players and disrupt the development process of the team as a whole? Are they really helping the team or are they creating more damage to the whole development process.
> 
> There is no such thing as an all 100% solution to the development vs winning issue. Is it a compromise? It’s about narrowing the distribution gap between the best and the worst players so you can develop everyone equally thus making the team as a whole develop better in the process. Coaches have a limited time with a team to develop all players equally. So what do you do? Target the weak and screw the average and best players? Or target the best and screw the weak players? Or do you simply just mix it up equally which benefits the average and weak players but screws the best players on the team? I respect the big teams that make the necessary cuts and recruit the right players to keep the team’s talent fairly equal. I respect the big teams that play possession soccer and at the same time value winning to expose their players to the toughest competition possible to increase the development process in respect to the majority of players on the team and not the individual player who has fallen below the bar because he or she is not working as hard as the rest outside of team practice and feel entitled to play in games because they are just part of the team.
> 
> The most important part of the development process is to have a clear and distinct definition and understanding of what development truly means to you and your kid. The word development is being thrown around so freely these days that I feel that most people don’t really quite understand what it really means anymore. Find the right fit and environment first that defines what development truly means to you and make sure that the team has the same beliefs and values towards the process.


Ummm.......bowling shoes????


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## Luis Andres (Sep 28, 2019)

Kicknit22 said:


> Ummm.......bowling shoes????


For my strike of the 10 pins yeah...


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 28, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> For my strike of the 10 pins yeah...


I wear flip flops. And throw up the bumpers for a strike opp.


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## Kicknit22 (Sep 28, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> For my strike of the 10 pins yeah...


Just my attempt to add something as relevant as your last post.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 28, 2019)

Kicknit22 said:


> Just my attempt to add something as relevant as your last post.


You set up my tee shot.


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## Fact (Sep 28, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Interesting topic here. For me it’s not about player development vs chasing the super team. It’s not about winning vs development. It’s about finding the right fit and environment  for the specific goals that your child has or if they are too young yet to have goals that you want for them if development is high on the list. Who is to say that a super team is not developing players as well as another so call “development over winning” team that simply preaches development over winning like an evangelist with a bible?
> 
> In fact they are the first ones to undermine the super teams and their success towards how they see the development process by claiming to say they just teach kick ball and win at all costs? Is that all they really do to stay successful in always building competitive teams with the right fit of competitive players? If I were to say that all these teams and coaches that say we strive to develop players to their full potential and don’t value winning games and trimming rosters are a package of mere sham sugar coated lies engulfed in BS. Can they really make the so call righteous claim to really be developing players equally if there is a huge talent gap in the roster because they don’t recruit or cut players and keep players around for so-called development purposes?  And risk the development of the majority of players disrupting the development process of the “team” as a whole. Are they really helping the team or are they creating more damage to the whole so-called development process.
> 
> ...


I did not read all of your garbage here, but no one turns on a dime this quickly unless you got your ass handed to you by your club. LOL


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## Luis Andres (Sep 28, 2019)

Fact said:


> I did not read all of your garbage here, but no one turns on a dime this quickly unless you got your ass handed to you by your club. LOL


No it was more like having a Eureka moment after what I’ve observed across different teams throughout the processs


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## Fact (Sep 28, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> No it was more like having a Eureka moment after what I’ve observed across different teams throughout the processs


Nice try loser.   Your ass was handed to you.  Now go rant about an 8 year old costing your time a victory. LOL


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## Luis Andres (Sep 28, 2019)

Fact said:


> Nice try loser.   Your ass was handed to you.  Now go rant about an 8 year old costing your time a victory. LOL


No one has handed anything to me I’ve just done my research and looked at all the different point of views from different sides and angles for the specific subject matter at hand.  Just expressing my current views on the argument. If anyone can counter my argument for why I’m wrong with fact and constructive logic I would welcome them to do so. And you better make sure it’s a home run.


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## Poconos (Sep 29, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> 1) Who is to say that a super team is not developing players as well as another so call “development over winning” team that simply preaches development over winning like an evangelist with a bible?
> 2) In fact they are the first ones to undermine the super teams and their success towards how they see the development process by claiming to say they just teach kick ball and win at all costs?
> 3) Is that all they really do to stay successful in always building competitive teams with the right fit of competitive players?
> 4) Can they really make the so call righteous claim to really be developing players equally and to their fullest potential if there is a huge talent gap in the roster because they don’t recruit or cut players and keep players around for so-called development purposes?
> ...


is this a homework assignment ?


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## Luis Andres (Sep 29, 2019)

Poconos said:


> is this a homework assignment ?


It’s me being a masochist calling out Docs that preach this stuff looking for a beat down to prove or create an argument for why I’m wrong. Challenging the status Quo


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## Primetime (Sep 29, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> The no GK trainer thing would be a deal killer for me at any club (no matter how desperate we are for it or to break into that next level).  My son has a trainer now who is the best of the best and who catches little things neither I nor his old club trainer would have every caught.  The once a week has done more to progress his playing than anything.   I rather go to a club without free GK training than give him up.  (Besides, old club has had 4 GK coaches in 1 year...currently his old field trainer is the GK trainer....great field trainer, has the GK basics, is up on the latest thinking but never played the position and misses some of the nuances an experienced GK might see).
> 
> If DS stick with goalkeeping I'm resigned to be a club hopper.  If there are 2 GKs on a club it seems really unstable unless the 2 GKs are roughly equal caliber and the coach is willing to have them play a few minutes on the field.  If one GK outperforms the other, the coach is either going to be under pressure to give the stronger one more minutes, or the stronger one will resent having to share minutes with the weaker one "for political reasons".


As they get older your gonna see 2 keepers on every team.   Especially at the higher levels.


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## Grace T. (Sep 30, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> . It’s not about keeping the individual player who had failed to develop and has fallen below the bar because he or she is not working as hard as the rest outside of team practice and feels entitled to play in games because they are part of the team. It’s about giving them the right opportunity they needed to find the right team that truly matches their goals and expectations  towards their own development process needs


If that were the case then clubs would make an effort to place dropped players in an appropriately placed team (either within the club, or if none exists somewhere else).  Some do, but few and far between since a lot of the coaches are concerned about the wins and the standings since that's what they are judged upon, not the individual players and whether they develop.  Most seem content to have the weaker player fill out the roster (and the fee) until something better (the so-called "impact player" everyone is advertising in the soccer boards for) comes along.



Primetime said:


> As they get older your gonna see 2 keepers on every team.   Especially at the higher levels.


Agree, but even in the pros, it doesn't make the situation very stable particularly since the argument for equal play time is harder to justify as you move up in age and difficulty level.  The exception is when the 2nd is clearly the weaker keeper and is just happy to play for the team, knowing they won't get many minutes.


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## Luis Andres (Sep 30, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> If that were the case then clubs would make an effort to place dropped players in an appropriately placed team (either within the club, or if none exists somewhere else).  Some do, but few and far between since a lot of the coaches are concerned about the wins and the standings since that's what they are judged upon, not the individual players and whether they develop.  Most seem content to have the weaker player fill out the roster (and the fee) until something better (the so-called "impact player" everyone is advertising in the soccer boards for) comes along.


Maybe the sad reality of the nature of the business side of things. Not arguing with you on that. I would like to believe however that not all clubs or coaches are like that.


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## Luis Andres (Sep 30, 2019)

@Fact if all you got is rating my posts as dumb or old and cannot contribute to the current discussion of the subject matter at hand and just give out negative ratings with no response then you should get lost. Cause it makes you look like a loser and a troll.


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## Fact (Sep 30, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> @Fact if all you got is rating my posts as dumb or old and cannot contribute to the current discussion of the subject matter at hand and just give out negative ratings with no response then you should get lost. Cause it makes you look like a loser and a troll.


I think you are a complete loser for coming on a public forum and blaming a little 8 year old girl for YOUR losing a game.  I rate your posts dumb or old because you are full of shit.  No one that can be so blatantly mean to a little girl, especially in public, deserves any respect for what they post....there I contributed, happy now?


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## Luis Andres (Sep 30, 2019)

Fact said:


> I think you are a complete loser for coming on a public forum and blaming a little 8 years old girl for YOUR losing a game.  I rate your posts dumb or old because you are full of shit.  No one that can be so blatantly mean to a little girl, especially in oublci


You sob you starting to piss me off now cause you keep going back to the same ole BS. And I’ve never blamed her but wanted advice on how to help her. Go fxxx yourself. Do you even know how hard I have worked to help girls on the team to facilitate and make sure they all get an equal chance to progress ? I’m the first one to offer my time and car if they can’t make it to practice. My wife does the same. We pick up girls and take them to outside training with my daughter. I go way out of my way more than anyone else to make sure they are all having fun and enjoying the process by having play dates with my daughter after. I’ve donated more money than anyone else to the team to help. If anyone has financial issues to cover tournament fees, I’m the first to help and come up with solutions. And if some parent could not afford for some reason a tournament or to even stay on the team because it has been a financial burden, I’ll be the first one to help and wouldn’t mine covering their tuition expense. I’m not here to knock down little 8 year old girls. I was concerned cause she was falling behind and had become a liability to the team in big games. So to me? The question was is she on the right team or should she be in another team where she can continue her development progress. The last thing I wanted to see is her totally lose her confidence, develop a phobia and then want to quit the sport because she is scared to play. And if it meant gettin on the coaches face to confront him about it so be it. I’m not a coach but I’m smart enough to recognize when a situation is going in the right or wrong direction.  And I’ll speak my mind and give my thoughts whenever possible. Not to be a dick but you are the one coming up with fairy tale stories about your kids having world championship success with minimal effort. Shit like that to me does not exist. You get back what you put in. And if you don’t work hard at something that you claim to say you love and have talent for, you will not have world fame. Simple as that. And that’s why I called out your bull shit


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## focomoso (Sep 30, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> ...If I were to say that all these teams and coaches that say we strive to develop players to their full potential and don’t value winning games and trimming rosters are a package of mere sham sugar coated lies engulfed in BS. Can they really make the so call righteous claim to really be developing players equally and to their fullest potential if there is a huge talent gap in the roster because they don’t recruit or cut players and keep players around for so-called development purposes?  And risk the development of the majority of players by disrupting the balance for the development process of the “team” as a whole and in fairness to the unit. Are they really helping the team or are they creating more damage to the whole so-called development process. Could cutting and recruiting players also be looked as part of aiding the development development process? Could it be that the organizations with all the experience, research that take these kinds of measures really just understand the bigger picture better?


This comes from a misunderstanding of how development works. 

First, there is no guarantee that the better kids now will be better in a few years. It's possible (I'd say likely) that the majority of the best kids now won't end up being very good in a few years because they're relying on physical attributes and development schedules that won't carry over through puberty. Given that this is the case (just ask any coach that has stayed with multiple teams from 12 to 16), cutting the "lessor" kids when they are young ends up hurting the development of the players who end up sticking with the sport at the higher levels. 

Second, the idea that a player has to be on the best team with the best kids to progress is false. I used to think this way and put my son into the DA (even playing up a year), but the trouble there is that kids start relying on their superstar teammates to get them out of trouble. They don't have to work so hard because someone else has their back. But when a kid is one of the best on the team, they have to step up and play their best all the time. If they don't play well, the team doesn't play well. This teaches leadership and responsibility and, in my view, makes kids better in the long run.


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## Luis Andres (Sep 30, 2019)

focomoso said:


> This comes from a misunderstanding of how development works.
> 
> First, there is no guarantee that the better kids now will be better in a few years. It's possible (I'd say likely) that the majority of the best kids now won't end up being very good in a few years because they're relying on physical attributes and development schedules that won't carry over through puberty. Given that this is the case (just ask any coach that has stayed with multiple teams from 12 to 16), cutting the "lessor" kids when they are young ends up hurting the development of the players who end up sticking with the sport at the higher levels.
> 
> Second, the idea that a player has to be on the best team with the best kids to progress is false. I used to think this way and put my son into the DA (even playing up a year), but the trouble there is that kids start relying on their superstar teammates to get them out of trouble. They don't have to work so hard because someone else has their back. But when a kid is one of the best on the team, they have to step up and play their best all the time. If they don't play well, the team doesn't play well. This teaches leadership and responsibility and, in my view, makes kids better in the long run.


You make some valid points. But you do mention relying on physical attributes. What if that was not the case given the example of a kid who may not have the physical attributes and yet is struggling. To me that’s more of an issue with fit and placement of the right team. Usually clubs have the a,b,c team and if that were the case why not move the kid from the a team to the b team to continue the child’s progress. And if later after puberty they prove themselves then move them back up.

On your second point, that to me is an individual’s case and needs to be addressed appropriately by the coach if they are relying on the best kids talent and not working as hard. That’s the coach’s job to correct and push the kid to work hard. But to say that you can’t maximize development for the team with a talent of equal roster that all work hard is false. If it would be true then you would see it happening in professional sports where talent rosters are constantly being trimmed and balanced for the proper objective to create a team that has the proper synergy. To me it’s about building that synergy within the roster to maximize development and if a few pieces don’t make sense, you adjust them, cut, recruit etc. to balance out your roster. Where one piece may not work well for one team, it may be the solution for another that needs that type of player.  I believe it’s all subjective to the vision of the the coach and management for the team. At the end of the day they know what’s best for the team and if it means cutting players at time so be it. The player needs to get clear about what his personal goals and objectives are and if it’s the right match then he or she should go on with the opportunity at hand or figure out where he or she may be a better fit elsewhere. You make sacrifices and adjustment for the purpose of the whole and not for the one. When you cater development efforts to the one, you may be doing more damage to the progress of the whole unit in the end.


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## Fact (Sep 30, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> You sob you starting to piss me off now cause you keep going back to the same ole BS. And I’ve never blamed her but wanted advice on how to help her. Go fxxx yourself. Do you even know how hard I have worked to help girls on the team to facilitate and make sure they all get an equal chance to progress ? I’m the first one to offer my time and car if they can’t make it to practice. My wife does the same. We pick up girls and take them to outside training with my daughter. I go way out of my way more than anyone else to make sure they are all having fun and enjoying the process by having play dates with my daughter after. I’ve donated more money than anyone else to the team to help. If anyone has financial issues to cover tournament fees, I’m the first to help and come up with solutions. And if some parent could not afford for some reason a tournament or to even stay on the team because it has been a financial burden, I’ll be the first one to help and wouldn’t mine covering their tuition expense. I’m not here to knock down little 8 year old girls. I was concerned cause she was falling behind and had become a liability to the team in big games. So to me? The question was is she on the right team or should she be in another team where she can continue her development progress. The last thing I wanted to see is her totally lose her confidence, develop a phobia and then want to quit the sport because she is scared to play. And if it meant gettin on the coaches face to confront him about it so be it. I’m not a coach but I’m smart enough to recognize when a situation is going in the right or wrong direction.  And I’ll speak my mind and give my thoughts whenever possible. Not to be a dick but you are the one coming up with fairy tale stories about your kids having world championship success with minimal effort. Shit like that to me does not exist. You get back what you put in. And if you don’t work hard at something that you claim to say you love and have talent for, you will not have world fame. Simple as that. And that’s why I called out your bull shit


You are the one that keeps mentioning me so I responded.

Now I don’t have time to read all your dribble but your true colors are showing.  You don’t get it.  You actually just wrote but I am sure you’ll delete it but don’t worry I took a screen shot and you can’t delete it from my post- The 8 year old was a “liability” to your team.  You are pathetic.  When are you going to learn, you don’t have a right to talk to a coach about someone else’s kid. PERIOD! Loser!


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## Luis Andres (Sep 30, 2019)

Fact said:


> You are the one that keeps mentioning me so I responded.
> 
> Now I don’t have time to read all your dribble but your true colors are showing.  You don’t get it.  You actually just wrote but I am sure you’ll delete it but don’t worry I took a screen shot and you can’t delete it from my post- The 8 year old was a “liability” to your team.  You are pathetic.  When are you going to learn, you don’t have a right to talk to a coach about someone else’s kid. PERIOD! Loser!


Like I said before I wouldn’t say nothing on here that I haven’t discussed with her father in person. We’ve talked about the issue at hand and he knows the situation. And we are working to fix the problem. There is nothing wrong with what I said if her Father and I have acknowledged the specific issue and problem and we both have agreed on what the problem is. He understands that she can be a liability for the team in big games, we both see the same thing on the field. Adult talk. But where it would be wrong is in mentioning something like that to the child. Because that would be wrong. Don’t take shit into your own context without knowing the specifics of the matter.


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## Dargle (Sep 30, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> Agree, but even in the pros, it doesn't make the situation very stable particularly since the argument for equal play time is harder to justify as you move up in age and difficulty level.  The exception is when the 2nd is clearly the weaker keeper and is just happy to play for the team, knowing they won't get many minutes.


The reason GKs accept being on a team with two, or even three, GKs as they get older is to get exposure. The number of high level teams drop at the older age groups as talent consolidates. For GKs, that can leave some quality players without access to college scouts. So, many of them will join a high level team (particularly DA for boys) understanding that they will get less game time, but knowing they can get more attention.  I know many DA teams that will choose which GKs start their junior year depending upon which ones are still trying to get college offers and which scouts will be in attendance. Once a GK has his offer, he'll play less understanding they need to showcase one of the other GKs.  Some will even move to an SCDSL Discovery or CSL Premier team at that point, with the blessing of their future college coach, in order to get more playing time and reps.


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## Eagle33 (Oct 1, 2019)

Dargle said:


> The reason GKs accept being on a team with two, or even three, GKs as they get older is to get exposure. The number of high level teams drop at the older age groups as talent consolidates. For GKs, that can leave some quality players without access to college scouts. So, many of them will join a high level team (particularly DA for boys) understanding that they will get less game time, but knowing they can get more attention.  I know many DA teams that will choose which GKs start their junior year depending upon which ones are still trying to get college offers and which scouts will be in attendance. Once a GK has his offer, he'll play less understanding they need to showcase one of the other GKs.  Some will even move to an SCDSL Discovery or CSL Premier team at that point, with the blessing of their future college coach, in order to get more playing time and reps.


Getting attention while sitting on the bench? It doesn't work this way. Normally goalkeepers don't come on teams to be 3rd or even 2nd keeper. Most of the time they end up in this situation being on a team already before coach recruited someone who is better. In other cases they were either promised starting spot or shared time.


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## dad4 (Oct 1, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> the argument for equal play time is harder to justify as you move up in age and difficulty level.


Yes but it needs to be both age and difficulty level, not just one.   It may be a flight 1 team, but that is not a good reason to keep an elementary school kid on the bench 2/3 of every game.


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## Dargle (Oct 1, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> Getting attention while sitting on the bench? It doesn't work this way. Normally goalkeepers don't come on teams to be 3rd or even 2nd keeper. Most of the time they end up in this situation being on a team already before coach recruited someone who is better. In other cases they were either promised starting spot or shared time.


Perhaps your experience is different, but I'm telling you what I've seen from observing and speaking with GKs and their parents, both in D1 colleges and still in DA/club, who were actually in these situations in their high school years (especially junior year).  Obviously, it doesn't work if the GK never plays, but I'm saying the GK takes reduced play (e.g., rotating every other game or every other half or even every third game) because they want to be showcased at the right time in the right setting.  Perhaps you can call that being promised shared time, but I'm telling you that's why they agreed to it when they could have gone elsewhere and gotten 100% of the playing time.


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## Eagle33 (Oct 1, 2019)

Dargle said:


> Perhaps your experience is different, but I'm telling you what I've seen from observing and speaking with GKs and their parents, both in D1 colleges and still in DA/club, who were actually in these situations in their high school years (especially junior year).  Obviously, it doesn't work if the GK never plays, but I'm saying the GK takes reduced play (e.g., rotating every other game or every other half or even every third game) because they want to be showcased at the right time in the right setting.  Perhaps you can call that being promised shared time, but I'm telling you that's why they agreed to it when they could have gone elsewhere and gotten 100% of the playing time.


My experience is first hand (not observing someone else) with my own kid, who played DA, left DA and now playing at D1 school. So maybe, just maybe I can tell you how it really is.


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## Dargle (Oct 1, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> My experience is first hand (not observing someone else) with my own kid, who played DA, left DA and now playing at D1 school. So maybe, just maybe I can tell you how it really is.


I'm not sure why you're insistent that your anecdote is the only way it is, but even if everyone else was lying or deluded as to why their kid was on a DA team with other GKs, that's their perception of why they were there (and why they left when they did in some cases).  The fact is that their kids did end up at D1, so it's not as if they screwed up that badly.


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## focomoso (Oct 1, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> You make some valid points. But you do mention relying on physical attributes. What if that was not the case given the example of a kid who may not have the physical attributes and yet is struggling. To me that’s more of an issue with fit and placement of the right team. Usually clubs have the a,b,c team and if that were the case why not move the kid from the a team to the b team to continue the child’s progress. And if later after puberty they prove themselves then move them back up.
> 
> On your second point, that to me is an individual’s case and needs to be addressed appropriately by the coach if they are relying on the best kids talent and not working as hard. That’s the coach’s job to correct and push the kid to work hard. But to say that you can’t maximize development for the team with a talent of equal roster that all work hard is false. If it would be true then you would see it happening in professional sports where talent rosters are constantly being trimmed and balanced for the proper objective to create a team that has the proper synergy. To me it’s about building that synergy within the roster to maximize development and if a few pieces don’t make sense, you adjust them, cut, recruit etc. to balance out your roster. Where one piece may not work well for one team, it may be the solution for another that needs that type of player.  I believe it’s all subjective to the vision of the the coach and management for the team. At the end of the day they know what’s best for the team and if it means cutting players at time so be it. The player needs to get clear about what his personal goals and objectives are and if it’s the right match then he or she should go on with the opportunity at hand or figure out where he or she may be a better fit elsewhere. You make sacrifices and adjustment for the purpose of the whole and not for the one. When you cater development efforts to the one, you may be doing more damage to the progress of the whole unit in the end.


You (still) seem to think that winning games at this age means anything at all. Ask any experienced coach who has taken kids to college or beyond or gone through it themselves. Winning games is laughably unimportant at this stage. Your kid doesn't get better by winning games. They get better by working their way out of tough spots. The _worse_ their team is, the more opportunity they have to grow.


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## focomoso (Oct 1, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> Getting attention while sitting on the bench? It doesn't work this way. Normally goalkeepers don't come on teams to be 3rd or even 2nd keeper. Most of the time they end up in this situation being on a team already before coach recruited someone who is better. In other cases they were either promised starting spot or shared time.


I have seen many great GKs accept a spot on a DA knowing they'll split time just because it's DA. Whether that's a good strategy, I don't know, but it seems to be common. For better or worse, the DA label sells.


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## focomoso (Oct 1, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> My experience is first hand (not observing someone else) with my own kid, who played DA, left DA and now playing at D1 school. So maybe, just maybe I can tell you how it really is.


the way it really is... for you. Others make other choices.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 1, 2019)

focomoso said:


> You (still) seem to think that winning games at this age means anything at all. Ask any experienced coach who has taken kids to college or beyond or gone through it themselves. Winning games is laughably unimportant at this stage. Your kid doesn't get better by winning games. They get better by working their way out of tough spots. The _worse_ their team is, the more opportunity they have to grow.


Not winning games but playing the best competition possible has proven to make players and teams grow. You can have a pretty good team and enter flight 3 league and win all games and gain no development from that. But you can be playing the best teams in flight 1 and lose all the games and still be developing better. There would be plenty of opportunities to get through tough spots in the second scenario. I don’t believe it’s important playing for trophies but there has to be some sort of measurement for progress and how can we do that by winning tough games, competing.  That shows development progress. I just don’t see how having a team with extreme differences in talent roster can help the players develop if the best are under achieving the lowest players are being too challenged. Wouldn’t you think if the roster of talent was fairly equal the coach can create a development program for them that all players on the team can get the most out of. Why or why not. Let’s look at the other side of the coin. So what would be the issue or drawback of having a team with an equal talent roster to develop vs one that doesn't, there has to be pros and cons for both sides of the spectrum?


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## Luis Andres (Oct 1, 2019)

Let’s look at the pros and cons of being in a competitive soccer team with a balanced talent roster.

Pros:

1) tougher competition can lead to faster development
2) a form of character building. Teaches that hard work is rewarding and sets kids up to be winners in life
3) coaches don’t have to split their time between the strongest and the weakest players allowing for a faster development rate across the whole team
4) kids won’t develop entitlement habits because they have to keep up with the bar
5) players and families form strong bonds
6) could lead to healthier lifestyle because kids are encouraged to stay in top shape.

Cons:
1) some kids may get burned out from the pressure to perform
2) minimal free time to do other activities.
3) ? Any others can’t think of any.

Feel free to add to the list and then we can see if the pros outweigh the cons or vice versa.


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## dad4 (Oct 1, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Not winning games but playing the best competition possible has proven to make players and teams grow. You can have a pretty good team and enter flight 3 league and win all games and gain no development from that. But you can be playing the best teams in flight 1 and lose all the games and still be developing better. There would be plenty of opportunities to get through tough spots in the second scenario. I don’t believe it’s important playing for trophies but there has to be some sort of measurement for progress and how can we do that by winning tough games, competing.  That shows development progress. I just don’t see how having a team with extreme differences in talent roster can help the players develop if the best are under achieving the lowest players are being too challenged. Wouldn’t you think if the roster of talent was fairly equal the coach can create a development program for them that all players on the team can get the most out of. Why or why not. Let’s look at the other side of the coin. So what would be the issue or drawback of having a team with an equal talent roster to develop vs one that doesn't, there has to be pros and cons for both sides of the spectrum?


Do you happen to know of actual studies on what kinds of schedules are best for player development?  (actual data, not just voice of experience.)

My own thought is that kids learn best when faced with challenges that are within reach.  Therefore, try to find as many close games as you can.   A 5-5 season with lots of one point games is perfect.   conversely, 9-0 games are a waste of both teams’ time.  

However, that is just an opinion.  I have nothing numeric to back that up or knock it down.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 1, 2019)

dad4 said:


> Do you happen to know of actual studies on what kinds of schedules are best for player development?  (actual data, not just voice of experience.)
> 
> My own thought is that kids learn best when faced with challenges that are within reach.  Therefore, try to find as many close games as you can.   A 5-5 season with lots of one point games is perfect.   conversely, 9-0 games are a waste of both teams’ time.
> 
> However, that is just an opinion.  I have nothing numeric to back that up or knock it down.


Exactly your first scenario is competitive the second is not. I’ve researched and found that some coaches agree and others don’t. And that’s why I’m trying to debate the issue. For me, it depends on the goals of the individual on what they want. There are numerous types of different teams from rec to very high competitive club teams. To say that one extreme is better than the other is nonsense. What works for you may not work for me. It’s about finding what you personally want out of development. You want to have fun, meet new friends and play soccer recreationally, then go to AYSO. You want to compete and strive to become professional then join a competitive club team, where rosters are balanced and where you will be challenged to keep up with the bar. Like I mentioned before. It’s subjective to an individual’s goals  and cannot be taken to an extreme.


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## espola (Oct 1, 2019)

Eagle33 said:


> Getting attention while sitting on the bench? It doesn't work this way. Normally goalkeepers don't come on teams to be 3rd or even 2nd keeper. Most of the time they end up in this situation being on a team already before coach recruited someone who is better. In other cases they were either promised starting spot or shared time.


...or they are on the team for bench-level skills at another position, so there is an understanding already that they are the backup.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 1, 2019)

Ill give you guys a perfect example my daughter was not happy playing AYSO. She found it boring because none of the kids passed the ball.  She asked me to pull her off the team. Hence she was not having fun playing with kids the same age that were way below her skill and soccer IQ level. She enjoys being in the tough competitive games and that’s what she sees as fun for her. It’s all subjective.

I still don’t see the major benefit of why placing kids in teams with different talent level rosters is better than having them in teams with balanced talent roster levels when it comes to development. While we can agree that it’s not about winning games or trophies etc. Why would one say that it’s better to have unbalanced talent rosters. No one seems to have an answer but to say ohh because such and such coach says so. What are the facts. Pros and cons. I keep going back to my first point. It’s subjective to the individuals goals. What’s fun for him may not be fun for her. When the goal is for them to have fun and enjoy the process right? Isn’t that what it’s about for kids?


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## Justus (Oct 1, 2019)

focomoso said:


> I have seen many great GKs accept a spot on a DA knowing they'll split time just because it's DA. Whether that's a good strategy, I don't know, but it seems to be common. For better or worse, the DA label sells.


I played GK in AYSO and in the Mexican co-ed adult leagues.  Go down to TJ for away game and then home game in El Monte.  Fun times.  I wanted action.  I see some GK get none because their on all star goat team with tough as nails defenders.  No shots on goal.  I would look to find action and lot's of save opportunities


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## Luis Andres (Oct 2, 2019)

Finally I found a coach that knows what he’s talking about and that agrees with my logic regarding player development and team development. A coach that understands that possession soccer and winning are both important. A coach that is getting the desired results and is producing elite level professional  athletes that are playing for their respective national teams. The problem with American culture is that everyone tries to sugar coat things and keeps on sweeping their weaknesses under the rug. Saying we have culture problems and throw the problem to the misunderstood winning at all costs vs development phenomena as the root of of non global success in developing elite players.

Too many people are stuck in the rec mentality having their kids play competitive club soccer. Saying things like a coach is responsible for player development when they only average about 2 days and 3 hours a week with teams. And don’t expect their kids to work hard and train outside of practice. Is that really enough time to create player development? Lmao to those who think it’s the coaches responsibility. It’s up to the player itself to want it. By doing the things outside of practice that most American kids ignore and the whole world is doing. It’s about touches, it’s about playing pickup soccer with your friends and finding the necessary passion and the love for the sport that will make you into a technical and smart player, through countless hours of training and hard work. Simple as that. You get back what you put in. The law of the Universe

https://343coaching.com/us/

http://blog.3four3.com/tag/development/

Just watch his U11 team play possession soccer. No wonder this video went viral.

Notice how these 10 year olds play possession soccer. Notice the player formations. All players are on the same page. All players are tactical and technical. And when they lose the ball they do what ever it takes to get the ball back right away. True Tiki Taka and the product of a coach that knows what he’s doing.


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## Keepermom2 (Oct 2, 2019)

Justus said:


> I played GK in AYSO and in the Mexican co-ed adult leagues.  Go down to TJ for away game and then home game in El Monte.  Fun times.  I wanted action.  I see some GK get none because their on all star goat team with tough as nails defenders.  No shots on goal.  I would look to find action and lot's of save opportunities


My daughter is a 13 year old Keeper and we are playing on a team that is winning by landslides because SCDSL didn't want to play us in a higher flight even though half of our team is new and we fought for it.  None the less, they focused on last years results in placement.  After 5 games we have scored 32 goals.  Any way, my daughter just started playing on a Mexican league boys team to get more action and loves it.  She is a little nutty.  It is so funny...I hate that we are on a winning team!  My daughter loves her club team so there you have it!  She will get the experience she needs paying $50 to play in a Saturday and Sunday Mexican league.


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## Grace T. (Oct 2, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Ill give you guys a perfect example my daughter was not happy playing AYSO. She found it boring because none of the kids passed the ball.  She asked me to pull her off the team. Hence she was not having fun playing with kids the same age that were way below her skill and soccer IQ level. She enjoys being in the tough competitive games and that’s what she sees as fun for her. It’s all subjective.
> 
> I still don’t see the major benefit of why placing kids in teams with different talent level rosters is better than having them in teams with balanced talent roster levels when it comes to development. While we can agree that it’s not about winning games or trophies etc. Why would one say that it’s better to have unbalanced talent rosters. No one seems to have an answer but to say ohh because such and such coach says so. What are the facts. Pros and cons. I keep going back to my first point. It’s subjective to the individuals goals. What’s fun for him may not be fun for her. When the goal is for them to have fun and enjoy the process right? Isn’t that what it’s about for kids?


So wait.  You told us on the other thread that you had put her in AYSO this year so that you could double up her training and that you could get her to exercise her leadership skills.  Did that not go very well?  Did you let her drop the team after making the commitment?  How's the AYSO season going and how's your coaching going?  It really does sound that you are just unhappy the way your org runs things and you should start looking for a new org that's more in line with your values.

In the 1970s few kids played club ball....everyone was in pretty much in AYSO rec, from the future pro to the handicapped kids.  You have a point.  That's why AYSO didn't work...the handicapped kid got frustrated because no one would pass to him and the future pro because no one developed him or her.  Besides the knowledge gap (daddy coaches didn't know how to coach soccer), getting appropriate play time with like skilled players was why people left AYSO and club ball exploded.  My own son (not a future pro) asked to leave AYSO because when he was preparing for the Extras tryouts around age 8, he couldn't get any of his teammates to train with him (they had other sports, and one parent told us they were too busy with their Disneyland annual pass).

But we don't have a tiered rec system like the UK (where only the best of the best play academy, and everyone else plays rec)...so the sorting is imperfect....you have silver players that shouldn't be playing at gold and you have silver players that are playing down at bronze....our bracket system is broken too because coaches (including teams that shouldn't be promoted) are chasing the promotions so they can recruit better players and "upgrade".  Coaches need to fill rosters and their read of players isn't perfect, so the sorting system isn't going to perfect...jeez we can't even get the brackets right....in an ideal world there shouldn't be any teams outside of the top DA teams that run away with the bracket, or that lose every game. 

Very few people are advocating going back to the AYSO everyone play together model.   You're just doing the classic strawman there and knocking it down.  Where the disagreement is circles around how important winning is (and the resulting training/cuts/recruiting/tactics that you need to do to get there), and at what age should it happen.   As people have told you, the consensus is not at 8 years old.


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## futboldad1 (Oct 2, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Finally I found a coach that knows what he’s talking about and that agrees with my logic regarding player development and team development. A coach that understands that possession soccer and winning are both important. A coach that is getting the desired results and is producing elite level professional  athletes that are playing for their respective national teams. The problem with American culture is that everyone tries to sugar coat things and keeps on sweeping their weaknesses under the rug. Saying we have culture problems and throw the problem to the misunderstood winning at all costs vs development phenomena as the root of of non global success in developing elite players.
> 
> Too many people are stuck in the rec mentality having their kids play competitive club soccer. Saying things like a coach is responsible for player development when they only average about 2 days and 3 hours a week with teams. And don’t expect their kids to work hard and train outside of practice. Is that really enough time to create player development? Lmao to those who think it’s the coaches responsibility. It’s up to the player itself to want it. By doing the things outside of practice that most American kids ignore and the whole world is doing. It’s about touches, it’s about playing pickup soccer with your friends and finding the necessary passion and the love for the sport that will make you into a technical and smart player, through countless hours of training and hard work. Simple as that. You get back what you put in. The law of the Universe
> 
> ...


The coach you quote has lost his job, and currently license suspended from a history of bullying among other things. He's also yet to do it with more than this one super-talented group. If he does it with a new group, it'll mean a lot more.


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## Grace T. (Oct 2, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Finally I found a coach that knows what he’s talking about and that agrees with my logic regarding player development and team development. A coach that understands that possession soccer and winning are both important. A coach that is getting the desired results and is producing elite level professional  athletes that are playing for their respective national teams. The problem with American culture is that everyone tries to sugar coat things and keeps on sweeping their weaknesses under the rug. Saying we have culture problems and throw the problem to the misunderstood winning at all costs vs development phenomena as the root of of non global success in developing elite players.


Having only see the video I see a team with great passing abilities....the training is probably the good ol rondos rondos rondos, and when you are tired of that, more rondos.  That training is very effective for developing a team's passing ability very quickly (just ask my son's AYSO United team last year).  But there are also a lot of weaknesses in the game: 1) most of the offense goes through the no. 10 who is a very good finisher...the others even in the highlights from the video seem to struggle to finish off the attack even missing a cross right into the box which for a team of this caliber should be easy...many of them are relying on their speed when they don't pass and don't seem to have developed the ball control as much as their passing, 2) it's not true tiki taka...even deep into the goal box the backwards passing is not going through the goalkeeper which causes the defense to get all congested in there and why the team has a hard time getting it out the back sometimes....using the goalkeeper allows you to spread the wings and shouldn't be an issue for a team of this caliber, 3) their defensive skills aren't great....lots of body checking but also lots of diving in and a weakness in defensive formation, 4) we don't see much from the keeper but the one save is done improperly, with the bended knee technique, which at this age shouldn't be happening.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 2, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> So wait.  You told us on the other thread that you had put her in AYSO this year so that you could double up her training and that you could get her to exercise her leadership skills.  Did that not go very well?  Did you let her drop the team after making the commitment?  How's the AYSO season going and how's your coaching going?  It really does sound that you are just unhappy the way your org runs things and you should start looking for a new org that's more in line with your values.
> 
> In the 1970s few kids played club ball....everyone was in pretty much in AYSO rec, from the future pro to the handicapped kids.  You have a point.  That's why AYSO didn't work...the handicapped kid got frustrated because no one would pass to him and the future pro because no one developed him or her.  Besides the knowledge gap (daddy coaches didn't know how to coach soccer), getting appropriate play time with like skilled players was why people left AYSO and club ball exploded.  My own son (not a future pro) asked to leave AYSO because when he was preparing for the Extras tryouts around age 8, he couldn't get any of his teammates to train with him (they had other sports, and one parent told us they were too busy with their Disneyland annual pass).
> 
> ...


Yes it did not work out for her she didn't like it. That was my mistake for putting her in a rec team. The idea was to get extra practice and create some leadership skills but it back fired. Not saying that everything I'm doing is working but so far so good with the majority of stuff


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## Luis Andres (Oct 2, 2019)

futboldad1 said:


> The coach you quote has lost his job, and currently license suspended from a history of bullying among other things. He's also yet to do it with more than this one super-talented group. If he does it with a new group, it'll mean a lot more.


Good point. We'll see what he does. Definitely like his blog and thoughts minus the bullying of course. Maybe he needs to tone it down a bit but nothing wrong with a little tough love


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## Luis Andres (Oct 2, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> Having only see the video I see a team with great passing abilities....the training is probably the good ol rondos rondos rondos, and when you are tired of that, more rondos.  That training is very effective for developing a team's passing ability very quickly (just ask my son's AYSO United team last year).  But there are also a lot of weaknesses in the game: 1) most of the offense goes through the no. 10 who is a very good finisher...the others even in the highlights from the video seem to struggle to finish off the attack even missing a cross right into the box which for a team of this caliber should be easy...many of them are relying on their speed when they don't pass and don't seem to have developed the ball control as much as their passing, 2) it's not true tiki taka...even deep into the goal box the backwards passing is not going through the goalkeeper which causes the defense to get all congested in there and why the team has a hard time getting it out the back sometimes....using the goalkeeper allows you to spread the wings and shouldn't be an issue for a team of this caliber, 3) their defensive skills aren't great....lots of body checking but also lots of diving in and a weakness in defensive formation, 4) we don't see much from the keeper but the one save is done improperly, with the bended knee technique, which at this age shouldn't be happening.


For a u11 team...I haven't seen much better.


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## Grace T. (Oct 2, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> For a u11 team...I haven't seen much better.


That's again how you measure it...for passing and for body checking? agree...for winning?  o.k. but that's not very important at that age....for ball control, defensive skills, defensive tactics, backpass tactics and goalkeeping? I've seen plenty (including a few bronze teams, and particularly if you take 10 out of the equation) that actually do some of that better, including some teams from your own club (with the caveat that this is just one short video).


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## Grace T. (Oct 2, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Yes it did not work out for her she didn't like it. That was my mistake for putting her in a rec team. The idea was to get extra practice and create some leadership skills but it back fired. Not saying that everything I'm doing is working but so far so good with the majority of stuff


Hope you didn't let her drop.  That completely disbalances the team given the AYSO ranking system (or did she draw a 6 because she didn't play the previous year?)  How is the team doing without her on it, or did you drop out as a coach too?

At least you can admit a mistake....growth....if you are wrong about that ask yourself, though, am I wrong about other things too?....particularly given the limited time horizon.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 2, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> Hope you didn't let her drop.  That completely disbalances the team given the AYSO ranking system (or did she draw a 6 because she didn't play the previous year?)  How is the team doing without her on it, or did you drop out as a coach too?


She has not played ayso in 3 years. Everything is fine. Losing games, not worried about it. Kids playing, learning and trying is the important thing. Did not want to force her to stay just to win games. I believe I did the right thing.


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## dad4 (Oct 2, 2019)

I used to balance AYSO teams.   If your kid can lead a top team roster, please don’t send him/her to AYSO.   It takes the game away from all of their teammates.   The other kids rarely touch the ball.  When they do touch it, they feel useless.

Why?  AYSO balances teams.   One weak player can’t balance a superstar.  To balance a superstar, you have to gut the whole team.   When you’re done, almost every single player on the team is below average for the league.   And they all know it, because they have a superstar next to them every practice and every game.


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## Fact (Oct 2, 2019)

futboldad1 said:


> The coach you quote has lost his job, and currently license suspended from a history of bullying among other things. He's also yet to do it with more than this one super-talented group. If he does it with a new group, it'll mean a lot more.


And I am sure this is why Luis likes him...just like him LOL


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## Fact (Oct 2, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> She has not played ayso in 3 years. Everything is fine. Losing games, not worried about it. Kids playing, learning and trying is the important thing. Did not want to force her to stay just to win games. I believe I did the right thing.


@Grace T. I am so confused like you. He said she was signed up for AYSO for leadership skills LOL.  Anything you read from this guy you cannot believe except for his original rants about an 8 year old being a liability to HIS team.


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## Fact (Oct 2, 2019)

Grace T. said:


> Hope you didn't let her drop.  That completely disbalances the team given the AYSO ranking system (or did she draw a 6 because she didn't play the previous year?)  How is the team doing without her on it, or did you drop out as a coach too?
> 
> At least you can admit a mistake....growth....if you are wrong about that ask yourself, though, am I wrong about other things too?....particularly given the limited time horizon.


He doesn’t care about the team, only himself.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 2, 2019)

dad4 said:


> I used to balance AYSO teams.   If your kid can lead a top team roster, please don’t send him/her to AYSO.   It takes the game away from all of their teammates.   The other kids rarely touch the ball.  When they do touch it, they feel useless.
> 
> Why?  AYSO balances teams.   One weak player can’t balance a superstar.  To balance a superstar, you have to gut the whole team.   When you’re done, almost every single player on the team is below average for the league.   And they all know it, because they have a superstar next to them every practice and every game.


Great question and I definitely agree with you. The answer to this question however involves a little story of things that have happened within the last 14 months and in the successions of things which has led to the direction in the way she has developed as a player. I’ll get back to it a little later when I have more time to write. However there is a rationale for why I brought her back to AYSO.


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## Canyon90 (Oct 2, 2019)

Am I the only one following this thread to see Fact rate all of Luis Andres posts as "dumb"?

Nothing against either poster but that's some funny ish! Lol.


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## Fact (Oct 2, 2019)

Canyon90 said:


> Am I the only one following this thread to see Fact rate all of Luis Andres posts as "dumb"?
> 
> Nothing against either poster but that's some funny ish! Lol.


Cause I live in his head and want to make sure that I continue to do so, so that he remembers to never again talk smack about an 8 year old on a public forum!


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## Poconos (Oct 2, 2019)

unctuous sanctimony


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## Luis Andres (Oct 2, 2019)

futboldad1 said:


> The coach you quote has lost his job, and currently license suspended from a history of bullying among other things. He's also yet to do it with more than this one super-talented group. If he does it with a new group, it'll mean a lot more.


Seems like he got fired for a conflict of interest. For having two top players go to Europe instead of staying local. I did not find anything about bullying. Can you post the link to that article that justifies your claim.?


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## Grace T. (Oct 2, 2019)

Called it.

http://blog.3four3.com/2015/08/12/the-best-soccer-coaching-advice-youll-ever-get-rondo/

Nice to know I am learning a thing or two.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 2, 2019)

The story goes back to Surf cup 2018, It was the team’s first major tournament and My DD had just come out of a 2 month summer camp where she got to practice and play lots of soccer. At that time I was the only one on the team taking their child to extra training outside of practice. That tournament she pretty much carried the team and proved herself as the leading scorer and commanded the middle very well. It was nice to see her dribble through players and use her faints and quickness to get through the defense and score.  She had sold the coach through her merits on the field that she would be playing the central positions (cm/cb) on the team going forward.

Before that the team was struggling a bit because no one was able to play the cb position and allow the team to play competitively against the top teams. But we had to go back to the Eagles tournament to see how it unfolded. I had told coach to give her a shot in the middle as she was playing the left back position when she first joined the team. After the first 5 min of the game the current center back gave up goal and he decided to try her at the cb position and for the rest of the half the Eagles were not able to get through her defense. So we held them to 1-0 for the rest of the half. Second half he decides to go back to a different line up, not sure why but maybe he wanted try other things, but sure enough we gave up 4 more goals and lost 5-0 in the finals.

After Surf season started and I started to see a change in her game. She no longer was the leading scorer but her game turned to passing and defending. That season she was probably the third leading scorer next to the 2 girls that became the forwards for the team. Sure enough the 2 forwards were a very talented 2011 playing up a natural left foot striker and Olivia Moultrie’s little sister on the right. Both amazing little players.

After many talks with Olivia’s Father he had pulled me to the side one day and said. Your daughter is the best player on this team. She has some special abilities and he pointed them out to me. Things like speed, change of speed, timing to tackles, great passing and vision for the field. He kind of opened up my eyes. After we played Slammers at State cup and saw how she commanded the back field I knew there was something special about her ability to win balls, but I wanted to develop her as a forward because she was also the most technical and fastest dribbler. She’s young and can be molded into any type of player.  In essence, I was trying to gear her development to play like Olivia Moultrie. I wanted her to be selfish with the ball, dribble through players and play like Messi.

I started taking her to striking classes and showed her lots of clips on Messi and how he would go through defenders and score. I also showed her clips of Olivia playing at her age. Sure enough non of it worked she still wouldn’t try to dribble through players. She told me she prefers to pass and create assists. She didn’t want to play like Olivia or Messi. I started to notice that her character to play the game was just very unselfish. I wanted her to be more selfish and be a ball hog to some degree cause I know she has the ability and quickness to do it. She’s done it before why can’t she continue to do so?

Talking to my friend who’s coached AYSO he suggested that I sign her up to practice playing like Messi. He said have her score a few goals, let her get comfortable and have her try all the new tricks she was learning at training. I thought I would give it a try but knew that it would be unfair to the rest of the girls. The idea was to have her do that for some small amount of time per half, have her score a few goals and then move her to a passing role in a 3-1-2 format. So she can teach the little girls how to play a passing game and develop some leader ship skills in the process by talking and instructing them. Sounded great in theory but it backfired because once she made the first pass she would never get the ball back and got bored of watching them scramble and told me she did not want to play with them anymore. The rest of the girls were playing the typical AYSO game were they bunch up and some ball hog. Nothing wrong with that. Just shows the different characters of these little players. It would be wrong for me to keep her around just to win games and give her and the rest of the little girls the wrong soccer experience.

Over the last few weeks I’ve been doing a lot of thinking and watching film and I started to notice that as young as she is, her game or way of playing is pretty naturally defined as it is or fair to say it’s starting to show how she may play when she is older. She thrives in defending, passing and counter attacks. Her style is of elegance and not aggression or selfish ball hogging. She’s smooth and calm and not a dirty player. Her game is classy.

The only time I see her dribble through players and take the ball is when she steals the ball and creates a counter attack. Maybe there is such a thing as a young kid’s game being naturally defined early on and just let her naturally develop into the player that she wants to be based on the attributes that make her shine and stand out. Not sure still debating it but I will just let her be. I shouldn’t force anything on her or try to turn her into a different player in the process. I have decided to stop trying to turn her into a forward and scorer. It’s just not her game. But after reviewing all the film I came to the realization that the ways she plays reminds me a lot of an old player that you guys have probably never heard of by the name of Elias Figueroa. I had seen some clips of him playing a while back and couldn’t help but notice the similarities to my DD’s game. He played between 1966-1980.

Bio: Figueroa was noted for his elegant style of play, his composure in the centre of defense and his ability to cut out opposition attacks and immediately launch counterattacks from the back with his passing. He was also praised throughout his career for being a gentleman on and off the pitch. This is how I would describe her game as well and she is such a gentle lady on and off the field. Very respectful and never complains. She just does what the coach wants her to do and never plays dirty.


"(Elias) Figueroa is the best Chilean player of all time, and probably the finest central defender in the history of football in the Americas." - Pele

“I’m the European Figueroa.” - Franz Beckenbauer

“If you asked me to compare _'Don Elias'_ to someone, I couldn’t give you an answer." - Rubens Minelli

I read his bio in Wikipedia and was stunned to see that the way he is described is the same way I would describe my DD’s game. Her natural attributes are very similar to Figueroa’s. I researched his highlights and to my surprise his movements and plays have striking similarities to the way my DD plays. I made a 15 second clip showing a side by side comparison and the similarities of some of his moves. So I guess for now I’m just gonna let her be and let her develop into the type of player that she is destined for.


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## Fact (Oct 2, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> The story goes back to Surf cup 2018, It was the team’s first major tournament and My DD had just come out of a 2 month summer camp where she got to practice and play lots of soccer. At that time I was the only one on the team taking their child to extra training outside of practice. That tournament she pretty much carried the team and proved herself as the leading scorer and commanded the middle very well. It was nice to see her dribble through players and use her faints and quickness to get through the defense and score.  She had sold the coach through her merits on the field that she would be playing the central positions (cm/cb) on the team going forward.
> 
> Before that the team was struggling a bit because no one was able to play the cb position and allow the team to play competitively against the top teams. But we had to go back to the Eagles tournament to see how it unfolded. I had told coach to give her a shot in the middle as she was playing the left back position when she first joined the team. After the first 5 min of the game the current center back gave up goal and he decided to try her at the cb position and for the rest of the half the Eagles were not able to get through her defense. So we held them to 1-0 for the rest of the half. Second half he decides to go back to a different line up, not sure why but maybe he wanted try other things, but sure enough we gave up 4 more goals and lost 5-0 in the finals.
> 
> ...


I am speechless. Who has time and or cares to read this dribble.  More importantly why does he think anyone gives a damn.  We should look into Luis and EJ getting a group rate on ECT.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 2, 2019)

Fact said:


> I am speechless. Who has time and or cares to read this dribble.  More importantly why does he think anyone gives a damn.  We should look into Luis and EJ getting a group rate on ECT.


Lol and you’re the one that came to read it and reply on it. That’s the story on why I put her in AYSO. And the direction path for her future development. Don’t care to read it. Just move on. Simple as that.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Oct 3, 2019)

@Luis Andres - You gotta let go of worrying about other kids on the team.  There is no such thing as a balanced team where all of the players are equal...every team has that player that is better and that player that's worse...that will never change.  Instead focus on the opportunity and challenge that will help your kid get better.  I think it's better to play on a team where your kid is challenged and has to do a little more versus playing on a stacked team where they end up relying on others and just coast through games.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 3, 2019)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> @Luis Andres - You gotta let go of worrying about other kids on the team.  There is no such thing as a balanced team where all of the players are equal...every team has that player that is better and that player that's worse...that will never change.  Instead focus on the opportunity and challenge that will help your kid get better.  I think it's better to play on a team where your kid is challenged and has to do a little more versus playing on a stacked team where they end up relying on others and just coast through games.


With all due respect as far as that aspect mentioned you could be right and I could be wrong. This is my second season doing club soccer and I’m just the type of person to question the status quo and debate things. I’ve learned a lot from you veterans and have shifted some of my views on things. I’m not perfect and I make mistakes but I’m smart to recognize them and correct them right away. Thank you all for expressing your views and opinions. I appreciate everyone’s honesty.


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## futboldad1 (Oct 3, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Seems like he got fired for a conflict of interest. For having two top players go to Europe instead of staying local. I did not find anything about bullying. Can you post the link to that article that justifies your claim.?


Ask around town........it's easy to find out about but of course it's not being publicized


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## Luis Andres (Oct 3, 2019)

Funny just checked out the views on this thread and it has gone up over 5000 views since sat. I wonder if people are tuning in to read the content or watch the Luis and Fact show. lol. #smh


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## rainbow_unicorn (Oct 3, 2019)

futboldad1 said:


> Ask around town........it's easy to find out about but of course it's not being publicized


It is publicized  - https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/04/10/stejskal-la-galaxy-gm-discusses-losses-alex-mendez-ulysses-llanez


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## Luis Andres (Oct 3, 2019)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> It is publicized  - https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/04/10/stejskal-la-galaxy-gm-discusses-losses-alex-mendez-ulysses-llanez


That he got fired for a conflict of interest with those 2 players going off to Europe and not staying local. His brother is their manager. But it does not say he was bullying players. @futboldad1 says that’s the rumor on the streets though.


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## Fact (Oct 3, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Funny just checked out the views on this thread and it has gone up over 5000 views since sat. I wonder if people are tuning in to read the content or watch the Luis and Fact show. lol. #smh


You sure have a high opinion of your worth ...mistakenly.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 3, 2019)

Fact said:


> You sure have a high opinion of your worth ...mistakenly.


I know without you, this thread wouldn’t be the same getting 1000 hits a day. Like I’ve mentioned before, they should hire you at Disney Studios.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 3, 2019)

futboldad1 said:


> The coach you quote has lost his job, and currently license suspended from a history of bullying among other things. He's also yet to do it with more than this one super-talented group. If he does it with a new group, it'll mean a lot more.


I use to have a good opinion of BK but about 2 years ago that changed. Remarks were shared from a concrete know it and they were terribly negative. Since then more chunks trickled out. Also there were pieces written on their blog that were questionable compared to earlier  articles. Even at TFA when BK was there his dismal  had question marks. As tactician, a purveyor of philosophic ideas on how the game should be played, and his approach to the game were superior to many. It’s to bad he took things beyond acceptable.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 4, 2019)

@Fact so you went back to all my posts in threads outside this to rate them dumb. It’s on..gonna build a bot to rate dumb every time you post. You never knew I can write code huh?> you sure got a lot of time on your hands. But better yet, I’m a platinum member so I can erase all your ratings...so keep wasting your time. They are all gone


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## Luis Andres (Oct 4, 2019)

There you go @Fact go check your last 160 posts. You gonna need to open up your wallet now and pay your dues to Dominic to get rid of all the dumb ratings. I don’t mess with you but if you want war. It’s on


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## Justus (Oct 4, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> There you go @Fact go check your last 160 posts. You gonna need to open up your wallet now and pay up to Dominic to get rid of all the dumb ratings.


Luis, I tried to hold off responding but I can't take it anymore.  I'm with Fact on this rant contest.  Let me tell you a story bro.  When my dd went to her first club tryout for Arsenal South in Temecula back in 2010, we were told we would play U8 for the coming up season.   I took my kid to the "tryout" and we only had 9 kids show up for 7x7.  4 kids were 8 years old and could only play U9.  So we decided to play up and let's just say we got our asses kicked just about every weekend.  We had this one dad from Lake Elsinore named Louis, I kid you not, who told all the kids what to do every freaking game.  He annoyed the shit out of me for telling my dd what to do all the time.  My dd played defense and saved some goals but also let a few of the bigger girls roll her over and make a pancake out of her.  Louis's kid was the biggest and oldest on the team and played CM and Louis trained her after practice as well.   He would get all mad too because my kid let the goal in sometimes.  Anyway, my first season with my daughters club life sucked because of Louis.  We made the Governor's division for state cup too, barely.  3rd game after losing first two we are getting killed 6-0 and Louis is still yelling at the kids and my kid too.  Finally, I snapped!!!!  I told Luis to shut the HELL up and to never talk to my kid again.  Louis was 6 3', 240 and was doing Crystal Meth I found out later as well.  He came right in my face and challenged me to fight right there, in freaking Antelope Valley.  I'm 5'9 on a good day.  Anyway, I ran away to the parking lot with my wife and found Jenny Lawlor standing by her car and the rest is history


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## Luis Andres (Oct 4, 2019)

Justus said:


> Luis, I tried to hold off responding but I can't take it anymore.  I'm with Fact on this rant contest.  Let me tell you a story bro.  When my dd went to her first club tryout for Arsenal South in Temecula back in 2010, we were told we would play U8 for the coming up season.   I took my kid to the "tryout" and we only had 9 kids show up for 7x7.  4 kids were 8 years old and could only play U9.  So we decided to play up and let's just say we got our asses kicked just about every weekend.  We had this one dad from Lake Elsinore named Louis, I kid you not, who told all the kids what to do every freaking game.  He annoyed the shit out of me for telling my dd what to do all the time.  My dd played defense and saved some goals but also let a few of the bigger girls roll her over and make a pancake out of her.  Louis's kid was the biggest and oldest on the team and played CM and Louis trained her after practice as well.   He would get all mad too because my kid let the goal in sometimes.  Anyway, my first season with my daughters club life sucked because of Louis.  We made the Governor's division for state cup too, barely.  3rd game after losing first two we are getting killed 6-0 and Louis is still yelling at the kids and my kid too.  Finally, I snapped!!!!  I told Luis to shut the HELL up and to never talk to my kid again.  Louis was 6 3', 240 and was doing Crystal Meth I found out later as well.  He came right in my face and challenged me to fight right there, in freaking Antelope Valley.  I'm 5'9 on a good day.  Anyway, I ran away to the parking lot with my wife and found Jenny Lawlor standing by her car and the rest is history


Wow that is an extreme case. And I feel bad for what you had to go through. No one should have to go through that and he should have been kicked out from the get go. I would never scream at another kid that is not mine like this guy did. Was he the coach? As far as fact, it’s about him not contributing to the subject matter and just acting dumb and not having anything to say. Everyone else is posting their argument and that’s what it’s about. We are having a friendly debate. If he was posting with some sort of constructive logic, I’m all ears and will respond accordingly but he is just spamming this thread and has nothing to say that is thoughtful and constructive to the subject matter at hand. He is just doing this to piss me off. And him going back to all my posts and rating them dumb was just uncalled for. I don’t go attacking him like he has done to me unless he attacks me first. So I’m not sure why you taking his side when we are talking about player development vs super teams and he has not provided any arguments but just trash talking, negative rating bs. @JumboJack, @Nefutous you got anything to add to the subject matter?


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## Justus (Oct 4, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Wow that is an extreme case. And I feel bad for what you had to go through. No one should have to go through that and he should have been kicked out from the get go. I would never scream at another kid that is not mine like this guy did. Was he the coach? As far as fact, it’s about him not contributing to the subject matter and just acting dumb and not having anything to say. Everyone else is posting their argument and that’s what it’s about. We are having a friendly debate. If he was posting with some sort of constructive logic, I’m all ears and will respond accordingly but he is just spamming this thread and has nothing to say that is thoughtful and constructive to the subject matter at hand. He is just doing this to piss me off. And him going back to all my posts and rating them dumb was just uncalled for. I don’t go attacking him like he has done to me unless he attacks me first. So I’m not sure why you taking his side when we are talking about player development vs super teams and he has not provided any arguments but just trash talking, negative rating bs. @JumboJack you got anything to add to the subject matter?


Louis thought he was the coach Luis and Fact was pissed because the girls are only 8.  Fact is 100% in the right on this bro.  This is not extreme anymore either Luis.  I'm sad to inform you that it's getting worse on the sidelines everyday and someone is going to get very hurt unfortunately.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 4, 2019)

Justus said:


> Louis thought he was the coach Luis and Fact was pissed because the girls are only 8.  Fact is 100% in the right on this bro.  This is not extreme anymore either Luis.  I'm sad to inform you that it's getting worse on the sidelines everyday and someone is going to get very hurt unfortunately.


I’m not sure how that relates to player development vs super team chasing which is why I came here in the first place to talk about that subject. Who’s talking about some crazy parent screaming at all the 8 year old girls from the team? Not me and I’m not doing that so why do you compare me to him when you don’t even know me. I’m no saint to say that I have never said things on the field to my own DD on what to do in games but that’s my daughter. I see that all the time with other parents on the team and parents from other teams we play. Things like shoot, run, pass, look behind you etc. Whatever you say to your child in games is on you and in context with the relationship you have with your kid. So who’s talking about all that you are referring to not me but you and fact. I know it’s getting crazy out there.  The only time I almost got jumped after a game was when I saw the coach from the other team bad mouthing our girls and I couldn’t resist but to talk back to him. Then all the ex cholo parents from the other team wanted to come after me but aside from that I have never witnessed a brawl in a game

I’m talking about how to maximize player development by balancing teams, I’m talking about player development being the responsibility of the player not only pinning it to the coach who spends a limited amount of time teaching them how to play soccer not developing individual players. I’m talking winning goes hand in hand with development. I’m talking about super teams and my respect for them to cut and recruit. I’m not talking about a whole team of 8 year old girls being taunted by a parent.


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## Poconos (Oct 4, 2019)

the tongue lashing and finger wagging has gone beyond all bounds of reason.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 4, 2019)

@Justus the one thing that I’m curious about is why the coach of the team allowed this parent to go over his authority during games and instruct all the girls on what to do? I’ve seen many coaches joy stick teams and I’m ok with that if it needs to happen at times. I know it’s the coach’s job to put him in his place. As far as I’m concern if I have an issue with the coach and his direction with the team and progress I talk to him 1 on 1. Which to me that’s fine and the right way to go about it.


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## Justus (Oct 4, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> @Justus the one thing that I’m curious about is why the coach of the team allowed this parent to go over his authority during games and instruct all the girls on what to do? I’ve seen many coaches joy stick teams and I’m ok with that if it needs to happen at times. I know it’s the coach’s job to put him in his place. As far as I’m concern if I have an issue with the coach and his direction with the team and progress I talk to him 1 on 1. Which to me that’s fine and the right way to go about it.


Great questions Luis.  Louis the dad coach did all his coaching from our side and our coach was far, far away and was overwhelmed in life I think with three kids and being a single mom.  Were talking 7 and 8 years old, right?  I didn't have 1 on 1 talks with coaches and I don't remember the joy sticking.  I only remember Louis telling everyone where to go.  He didn't start yelling until the big Governors tournament at State Cup that he thought we had a chance to advance in.


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## Chalklines (Oct 4, 2019)

@Luis Andres

Parent Justus is describing sounds like that female dog recording the removed game you posted. Who was that anyways?


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## Luis Andres (Oct 4, 2019)

Justus said:


> Great questions Luis.  Louis the dad coach did all his coaching from our side and our coach was far, far away and was overwhelmed in life I think with three kids and being a single mom.  Were talking 7 and 8 years old, right?  I didn't have 1 on 1 talks with coaches and I don't remember the joy sticking.  I only remember Louis telling everyone where to go.  He didn't start yelling until the big Governors tournament at State Cup that he thought we had a chance to advance in.


Ok so it just happened during state cup not throughout the regular season. So it was a one time event I’m assuming? Interesting, so the coach was a female. Maybe she was intimidated by him? That’s what I would think. I understand she may have been overwhelmed by her own personal life but that is no excuse for her to let it happen and not confront him. My two cents. So he was the only one that thought you guys had a chance to advance in the tournament interesting. So what happened after that incident when you saw him again at team practice?


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## Luis Andres (Oct 4, 2019)

Chalklines said:


> @Luis Andres
> 
> Parent Justus is describing sounds like that female dog recording the removed game you posted. Who was that anyways?


The way this thread is getting views and scrutinized by so many I’m not about to throw anybody under the bus and get in trouble for it. I learned my lesson. Trust me, If I were to say anything... I’d have my head on the chopping board next week so I can’t answer that question.


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## Fact (Oct 4, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> There you go @Fact go check your last 160 posts. You gonna need to open up your wallet now and pay your dues to Dominic to get rid of all the dumb ratings. I don’t mess with you but if you want war. It’s on


The fact that you give a damn about ratings proves my point that you are a complete dbag.  Finish 93 posts of mine to rate as dumb, go for it loser but shouldn’t you be using that time to bag on 8 year olds. LOL

I just signed in cause I figured out the difference btw you and @Justus. EJ is upset because he sees the inherent unfairness in the system and wants a level playing field for every kiddo. He just cannot accept that life is unfair and sometimes takes his anger out on innocent parents. He has his heart in the right place thou l.

You on the other hand think it is unfair that your child prodigy has to waste her time with kiddos beneath your standard.  You spend all your time on this board in an attempt justify bullying 8
year old little girls.  You’ll never learn cause your vindictive as proved by hunting down 93 of my posts, a person you don’t even know. I live in your head. LOL


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## Fact (Oct 4, 2019)

Ok so I think all of you are overthinking this thread.  Every kiddo is different. Some kids are happy to make an Allstate team with their friends and ride the pine.  Others will be discouraged and quit if they are not the center of the team.

I always tried to find a team were my kiddos were starters but not the best player on the team.  This way they could grow with the better players yet retain a level of self esteem.  Of course, this was not always possible because you also have to take into consideration the club, coach and other players/parents, plus distance you’re willing to travel and training schedules that work for your family; not an easy thing to juggle for most families.

If I had the chance to do it over, I would mix it up for my kiddos.  Now there are so many more options like Futsal.  I would probably have a mix of teams and levels for my kiddos.  Maybe a Futsal team where they are one of the better players, maybe indoor with school friends and maybe a club team where they are the 8-10th player. Of course like I said above it depends on the kiddo and this also changes with age.  One of my ds grew more from playing with his friends on a middle of the road team during his younger years. We had tried playing him on his older brother’s team where he was good enough to start but he shut down since none of the boys were his friends. 

So I guess I am saying, take cues from your child.


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## Fact (Oct 4, 2019)

*sorry for any typos above.  Started the drinking contest with my visiting ds early tonight.


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## Fact (Oct 4, 2019)

I should add congrats @Night Owl.  I could not have said it better myself.  It takes a special person to navigate the political Soccer land mines and come out on the other end intact.  Wishing your son the best in D1. Please keep us updated, not enough parent of boys on the college thread.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 4, 2019)

Regarding player development


Fact said:


> The fact that you give a damn about ratings proves my point that you are a complete dbag.  Finish 93 posts of mine to rate as dumb, go for it loser but shouldn’t you be using that time to bag on 8 year olds. LOL
> 
> I just signed in cause I figured out the difference btw you and @Justus. EJ is upset because he sees the inherent unfairness in the system and wants a level playing field for every kiddo. He just cannot accept that life is unfair and sometimes takes his anger out on innocent parents. He has his heart in the right place thou l.
> 
> ...


Ahh no sorry dude. The reason why I did it was because you went to all my posts outside this thread and rated them dumb. Maybe I’m living in your head. I have never lashed at you before you lashing at me. Who’s EJ? You referring to @Justus ? And no it’s not about my DD versus her teammates or any other player her age. My complain comes from the mere fact that most people think that the coach is gonna magically develop individual players without them doing the little things that make them technical players outside of practice. Player development needs to come from the player itself then it comes down to the coach teaching them how to play the game as a unit. How can a coach develop players that are not working to be more technical outside of practice? If this the current model that we follow in America then there you have it. That’s why the US cannot produce a star soccer player because everyone is under the impression that the coach will somehow whip out the magic wand and make you a more technical player.

The only reason why my DD is where she is at today with her progress in soccer is because from the get go I’ve made sure that she is developing the technical aspects of her individual game. First touch, dribbling, proper shot technique, ball control, etc. I never thought it was the coach’s job to teach her that with the limited amount of time he had with them weekly. I’ve always believed it was my job to make sure she was developing the technical ability that she would need in order to be successful when her coach would teach her and her teammates proper soccer development. How to play together as a team. I feel that as parents it’s our responsibility to do that for our kids and I would let other parents on the team know why this was important at a young age. Most ignored me and did not listen to me. There was only 1 Father on the team aside from me that believed in this motto and he followed me to all the training sessions that I took my DD to. To make a long story short. My DD and this teammate are the most technical & tactical players on the team to date. Their soccer IQ is above the rest of the other players on the team. They are also the ones that really understand possession soccer best cause they both play up in another hispanic league and have shown to do so with older players. They play and switch off between cm/cb position, they control the middle lane and are the nucleus to the team’s success to being a top 5 team in Cas next to the rest of the teams that have recruited the athletes to get there. All the girls on our team are home grown. No one has been recruited or scouted. The last 2 that joined came because we are the best team in the local area. After all that, the rest of the other girls are finally now doing the little things outside of practice to become more technical. They are a bit behind them but I have faith that they will also take that same jump in their development phase soon. Some faster than others which is normal. Not all players develop at the same rate but for me I’m happy to see them working hard outside of practice to become more technical. That’s just 1/2 of the equation.

The coach is the other half. Having a good coach like the one we have is crucial to their soccer development as a unit. We can have a bunch of technical players but if the coach has the wrong soccer philosophy they are not gonna learn how to play as a unit. It’s the combination of a good coach and the work ethic that the players have outside of practice that will make a home grown team like ours able to compete against the other top teams that have been recruited for their athletic abilities. Now I’m not saying that all our girls are not athletes either, yes we do have a few like my DD who is lightning fast and quick to change her speed for her age and has the stamina of a zebra with that as well and that’s why she is the top player of the team. Because she has the athletic and technical ability combined and the fact I have developed her soccer IQ by going over special scenario and tactics. This is not a secrete, this is how we develop teams and players in South America. Technical ability first then playing together as a team. Which is what the coach teaches them to do. Parents are responsible for developing the technical aspects of their kids at young ages. After they are old enough, you can just hope that they love the sport enough to continue to do it on their own to reach the level of stardom.

Now for all the ones that have their special cases with their children and have their own specific goals for soccer, I’m not hating on you. Remember I said it’s up to you, and your goals of what you want out of the game be it rec or pro development. My DD and I are working towards the latter and that’s why our curriculum sounds a bit extreme for most. But hey, that’s our prerogative. You can’t hate me for wanting and working towards greatness. My family values and principles not yours.


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## Justus (Oct 4, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Ok so it just happened during state cup not throughout the regular season. So it was a one time event I’m assuming? Interesting, so the coach was a female. Maybe she was intimidated by him? That’s what I would think. I understand she may have been overwhelmed by her own personal life but that is no excuse for her to let it happen and not confront him. My two cents. So he was the only one that thought you guys had a chance to advance in the tournament interesting. So what happened after that incident when you saw him again at team practice?


Season was over bro and never saw Louis ever again.  I hear his dd is a great player so I'm sure his coaching helped her get better   Female coach was awesome btw and she deserved the gift we got her.  Maybe she knew he was a whacko on meth and just wanted to get through the season alive.  We went to heaven with JH for two years.  She teaches the young girls to have fun, parties, dances, movies nights, scavenger hunts and yes, win or lose as a team


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 4, 2019)

I’m to lazy and don’t care enough to look back to post 1. But what is this thread about again. Now back to my beer. Tonight I’m enjoying a Bells Two Hearted Ale. Yum.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 4, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I’m to lazy and don’t care enough to look back to post 1. But what is this thread about again. Now back to my beer. Tonight I’m enjoying a Bells Two Hearted Ale. Yum.


Player development vs super team chasing. Which path and why? User describing why the player development path would develop your child better than the so called super teams that are supposedly just about wins and no development. The status Quo of what most people liked. Post got 10 likes.

Next me coming in and questioning what one may mean by “player development” since it’s being so loosely thrown around as a marketing hype word. Wrote a post that caught the attention of some users that agreed it challenged the status Quo of what most had already agreed on. He even busted out the bowling shoes for me to bowl the strike. Then you came in with sandals instead for me to wear. Funny stuff.  End of page 2, beginning of 3.

Then comes fact and it turns into a back and forth argument with drama over 8 year old kids.


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## Justus (Oct 4, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Player development vs super team chasing. Which path and why? User describing why the player development path would develop your child better than the so called super teams that are supposedly just about wins and no development. The status Quo of what most people liked. Post got 10 likes.
> 
> Next me coming in and questioning what one may mean by “player development” since it’s being so loosely thrown around as a marketing hype word. Wrote a post that caught the attention of some users that agreed it challenged the status Quo of what most had already agreed on. He even busted out the bowling shoes for me to bowl the strike. Then you came in with sandals instead for me to wear. Funny stuff. Then comes fact and it turns into a back and forth argument with drama. End of page 2 beginning of 3


I should have asked you how old your baby goat is?


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 4, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Player development vs super team chasing. Which path and why? User describing why the player development path would develop your child better than the so called super teams that are supposedly just about wins and no development. The status Quo of what most people liked. Post got 10 likes.
> 
> Next me coming in and questioning what one may mean by “player development” since it’s being so loosely thrown around as a marketing hype word. Wrote a post that caught the attention of some users that agreed it challenged the status Quo of what most had already agreed on. He even busted out the bowling shoes for me to bowl the strike. Then you came in with sandals instead for me to wear. Funny stuff. Then comes fact and it turns into a back and forth argument with drama. End of page 2 beginning of 3


Yes, I recall now. Thanks for the summary. Proceed with the dual.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 4, 2019)

Justus said:


> I should have asked you how old your baby goat is?


She’s 9 teaching her the principles, values and beliefs for how to succeed in life. No secreté. You get back what you put in. A fundamental universal law.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 4, 2019)

Fact said:


> Ok so I think all of you are overthinking this thread.  Every kiddo is different. Some kids are happy to make an Allstate team with their friends and ride the pine.  Others will be discouraged and quit if they are not the center of the team.
> 
> I always tried to find a team were my kiddos were starters but not the best player on the team.  This way they could grow with the better players yet retain a level of self esteem.  Of course, this was not always possible because you also have to take into consideration the club, coach and other players/parents, plus distance you’re willing to travel and training schedules that work for your family; not an easy thing to juggle for most families.
> 
> ...


Thank you for providing your insight. I can’t hate you but praise you for expressing your thoughts that’s why you get my like.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 4, 2019)

@Fact I even went ahead and erased all the dumb ratings on posts I’ve never read except for the ones in the Luis Andres thread. I’m not gonna rate a thought of yours I’ve never read. I think it’s just wrong.


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## Kicker4Life (Oct 5, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I’m to lazy and don’t care enough to look back to post 1. But what is this thread about again. Now back to my beer. Tonight I’m enjoying a Bells Two Hearted Ale. Yum.


Prophets of Haze for me this fine evening....


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## Justus (Oct 5, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> She’s 9 teaching her the principle, values and belief for how to succeed in life.


I saw video.  Is that you yelling her name when she scores?


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## Luis Andres (Oct 5, 2019)

Justus said:


> I saw video.  Is that you yelling her name when she scores?


No that was the camera man who caught the goal on his phone and was thanking him for it on post.


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## Justus (Oct 5, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> No that was the camera man who caught the goal on his phone and was thanking him for it on post.


So Luis, I first want to say your dd is a great player.  She likes to pass which is not always happening at this age and it's obvious you have a deep passion for the game to be played the right way.  OLE is where?  Has she (you) been approached to go to DA Girls Club yet?


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## Luis Andres (Oct 5, 2019)

Justus said:


> So Luis, I first want to say your dd is a great player.  She likes to pass which is not always happening at this age and it's obvious you have a deep passion for the game to be played the right way.  OLE is where?  Has she (you) been approached to go to DA Girls Club yet?


Ole yes they have a great development program for the young ages but they don’t usually keep teams past u11/u12. 9 years old is still too young for DA. However she has been scouted at tournaments by big clubs that have taken our information and that have a DA program. When the time is right to move on from the club we will look at the options and talk to the clubs that have expressed interest in her and see if DA is the right option for her. To be honest I wouldn’t mind her playing with boys either if that makes sense at the time. To me some of the top boys teams I’ve seen play much better possession soccer than girl teams do.


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## Justus (Oct 5, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Ole yes they have a great development program for the young ages but they don’t usually keep teams past u11. 9 years old is still too young for DA. However she has been scouted at tournaments by big clubs that have taken our information and that have a DA program. When the time is right to move on from the club we will look at the options and talk to the clubs that have expressed interest in her and see if DA is the right option for her. To be honest I wouldn’t mind her playing with boys either if that makes sense at the time. To me some of the top boys teams I’ve seen play much better possession soccer than girl teams do.


It would be interesting to hear the recruiting stories you come across from the DA clubs.  Anyone offer Full Ride yet?  I only say that because I see your baby goat with higher than average talent at the U10 level.  Reminds me OM who is Pro now at 14.  Is OLE in LA?  I tried to get my dd to dream about playing on a boys team when she was 10.  My dd flat out said no and told me to my face to get rid of that crazy idea now!!!!  Lastly, my dd went the possession soccer route for two years and it was fun but when we played fast, physical and strong opponents the possession broke down and we had to fight for survival.  The point I'm making is after the pre-teen and HS years, the college game will bite many of the players parents in the buttocks who think fast, physical and strong is not important anymore and only learning the true tactical, developmental part of the soccer game is what matters now.  Let me to you Luis, I watched many games in college this year and if you don't care about bringing Ganas to the game, you will lose and wonder what the hell is happening.  These girls at AZ, Pep, WA, Fullerton, Long Beach St, UCI have a fire that is missing at my beloved UCLA.  Good luck Luis on this journey.  Be careful out there and If I can be of any service, please don't hesitate to PM.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 5, 2019)

Justus said:


> It would be interesting to hear the recruiting stories you come across from the DA clubs.  Anyone offer Full Ride yet?  I only say that because I see your baby goat with higher than average talent at the U10 level.  Reminds me OM who is Pro now at 14.  Is OLE in LA?  I tried to get my dd to dream about playing on a boys team when she was 10.  My dd flat out said no and told me to my face to get rid of that crazy idea now!!!!  Lastly, my dd went the possession soccer route for two years and it was fun but when we played fast, physical and strong opponents the possession broke down and we had to fight for survival.  The point I'm making is after the pre-teen and HS years, the college game will bite many of the players parents in the buttocks who think fast, physical and strong is not important anymore and only learning the true tactical, developmental part of the soccer game is what matters now.  Let me to you Luis, I watched many games in college this year and if you don't care about bringing Ganas to the game, you will lose and wonder what the hell is happening.  These girls at AZ, Pep, WA, Fullerton, Long Beach St, UCI have a fire that is missing at my beloved UCLA.  Good luck Luis on this journey.  Be careful out there and If I can be of any service, please don't hesitate to PM.


The great part about the current team and group of girls she plays with is that ganas is what they are all about. To be honest I haven’t gotten into too much details with clubs that have tried recruited her but to say I will get back to them when the time is right and yes there have been offers for free tuition but to me it’s not about the money savings or getting a free ride. It’s where she will develop best at the current moment. If the game needs to get physical these girls are ready for the task. The system they implement is known for their high pressure defense and they shut down the possession soccer of the big teams forcing them to make mistakes and resort to playing kick ball. This team is probably one of the most physical and grittiest girls team when it comes to playing defense and forcing opponents to make mistakes.


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## Justus (Oct 5, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> The great part about the current team and group of girls she plays with is that ganas is what they are all about. To be honest I haven’t gotten into too much details with clubs that have tried recruited her but to say I will get back to them when the time is right and yes there have been offers for free tuition but to me it’s not about the money savings or getting a free ride. It’s where she will develop best at the current moment. If the game needs to get physical these girls are ready for the task. The system they implement is known for their high pressure defense and they shut down the possession soccer of the big teams forcing them to make mistakes and resort to playing kick ball. This team is probably one of the most physical and grittiest girls team when it comes to their defense.


So OLE has no older teams?


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## Luis Andres (Oct 5, 2019)

Justus said:


> So OLE has no older teams?


Our team is the oldest girls team at the moment. Young club but with a great philosophy to soccer development. Out here in LA Ole is the club you want to put your child in for the young ages. They have proven to take home grown players and develop them well.


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## Justus (Oct 5, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Our team is the oldest girls team at the moment.


Does your dd what to play on YNT, Pro or College or all three?


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## Luis Andres (Oct 5, 2019)

Justus said:


> Does your dd what to play on YNT, Pro or College or all three?


She has dreams of going pro one day. But in order for her to get there she will need to keep working hard, growing and conquering the obstacles that she will face to get there. I’m doing my part now but she will have to do it on her own later when she gets a little older. That will be up to her later. How much does she really want it will determine how far she wants to get. She has the physical attributes to be a great player one day but it’s up to her later to reach her full potential.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 5, 2019)

@Justus if you don’t mind me asking how old is you DD and what level of soccer competition is she currently playing?


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## Justus (Oct 5, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> @Justus if you don’t mind me asking how old is you DD and what level of soccer competition is she currently playing?


15 ECNL


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## Luis Andres (Oct 5, 2019)

Justus said:


> 15 ECNL


That’s great congratulations.


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## Justus (Oct 5, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> That’s great congratulations.


Thank you


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## El Clasico (Oct 5, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Finally I found a coach that knows what he’s talking about and that agrees with my logic regarding player development and team development. A coach that understands that possession soccer and winning are both important. A coach that is
> 
> https://343coaching.com/us/
> 
> ...


Where is this video taken? How old is it?  Didn't realize that 10 year olds were playing 11 v 11 on a full size field these days.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 5, 2019)

El Clasico said:


> Where is this video taken? How old is it?  Didn't realize that 10 year olds were playing 11 v 11 on a full size field these days.


It was on their website. I believe this was a cal south state cup semi finals game from some years ago.


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## timbuck (Oct 5, 2019)

I think many of those players are now 18  years old.  Several are playing in Europe, Mexico and MLS


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## focused1 (Oct 5, 2019)

El Clasico said:


> Where is this video taken? How old is it?  Didn't realize that 10 year olds were playing 11 v 11 on a full size field these days.


A couple of gags or a rocket launcher would be needed before I'd let my kid play for either of the coaches on that soundtrack...joystick much?


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## blam (Oct 5, 2019)

I feel like you can learn a lot of these possession soccer from playing fifa on ps4. Certainly you need that to win beyond the beginner level.


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## focomoso (Oct 6, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Our team is the oldest girls team at the moment. Young club but with a great philosophy to soccer development. Out here in LA Ole is the club you want to put your child in for the young ages.


I wouldn't make a statement like that until you had a better feel for the lay of the land...


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## Luis Andres (Oct 7, 2019)

focomoso said:


> I wouldn't make a statement like that until you had a better feel for the lay of the land...


Any clubs you recommend?


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## focomoso (Oct 7, 2019)

Luis Andres said:


> Any clubs you recommend?


I'm more familiar with the boys side, but the soccer world in LA is much larger than everyone thinks. Everytime I think I know all the options, I discover some club I've never heard of doing amazing stuff. Any statements about the best option in LA are likely to be wrong eventually.


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## Luis Andres (Oct 7, 2019)

focomoso said:


> I'm more familiar with the boys side, but the soccer world in LA is much larger than everyone thinks. Everytime I think I know all the options, I discover some club I've never heard of doing amazing stuff. Any statements about the best option in LA are likely to be wrong eventually.


for boys it’s a little different imo. There is a lot of good boys teams and programs around here. I can’t say the same for girl teams.


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