# SCDSL Flight 1 applications



## Wez (Jul 20, 2016)

I'm hearing there are a lot of applications for flight one status.  With the shuffling of kids from age changes, I'm guessing there are a lot of teams who are new, but made up of kids who are flight one quality.  Some teams from last year who used to be flt 1, but have lost a lot of their talent.  Thoughts?


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## timbuck (Jul 20, 2016)

They should look at summer tournaments. Any team that sandbagged and played in flight 2 should not be given a spot in flight 1.


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## Wez (Jul 20, 2016)

timbuck said:


> They should look at summer tournaments. Any team that sandbagged and played in flight 2 should not be given a spot in flight 1.


That's a strange comment.  It does raise some questions.

Why would a team who holds themselves out to be flight one, want to enter a flight 2 tournament bracket?  Are you implying that a team who is seeking flight 1 status by SCDSL, would intentionally enter a lower bracket, just to get a win at flight 2?  Would a win at flight 2 count more then a close game loss at flight 1?

I'm curious how SCDSL will handle this considering how much movement in players there has been.


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## espola (Jul 20, 2016)

Wez said:


> I'm hearing there are a lot of applications for flight one status.  With the shuffling of kids from age changes, I'm guessing there are a lot of teams who are new, but made up of kids who are flight one quality.  Some teams from last year who used to be flt 1, but have lost a lot of their talent.  Thoughts?


What is "flight 1 quality"?


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## Wez (Jul 20, 2016)

espola said:


> What is "flight 1 quality"?


Imo, it would be a player(s) (or group of) that can compete well, against other flight 1 teams.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 20, 2016)

The way it was explained to me, last year Flight 1 teams would keep their status and new teams will be up for review by the league. National Cup and tournament results will be considered in determining team flight status. Of course DOC desires will be considered first


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## Number9Mom (Jul 20, 2016)

Does anyone know when Flights will be released?


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## espola (Jul 20, 2016)

Wez said:


> Imo, it would be a player(s) (or group of) that can compete well, against other flight 1 teams.


Does that include the 18th-best player on a Flight 1 team's roster?


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## Wez (Jul 20, 2016)

espola said:


> Does that include the 18th-best player on a Flight 1 team's roster?


Please clarify what you are looking for in a response or the point you are perhaps dancing around espola.


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## Managed2long (Jul 20, 2016)

Seedings have been done, just not released...anyone have access?


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## etc1217 (Jul 20, 2016)

I think this year with all the changes to the teams due to the age change, it is really hard to determine what team is a true Flight 1 team. Right now, it sounds like most tournaments and now league is determining Flight 1 status by reputation of the team from years prior. Let's be real, some of these teams who are considered Flight 1 now by the powers that be don't deserve the status because they are riding on the last year team's status/points and more than half of those players aren't even on the team anymore. Just my two cents...

But hey....my DD's team better get that Flight 1 status for SCDSL.....


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## socalkdg (Jul 20, 2016)

New to this and ready for some education.   How are the CSL and SCDSL different in establishing what level a team is at.  CSL has Gold, Silver Bronze, while SCDSL has Tier 1, 2, and 3, correct?  How do teams move up or down over the years?


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## espola (Jul 20, 2016)

Wez said:


> Please clarify what you are looking for in a response or the point you are perhaps dancing around espola.


I was questioning what "made up of kids who are flight one quality" means.


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## espola (Jul 20, 2016)

socalkdg said:


> New to this and ready for some education.   How are the CSL and SCDSL different in establishing what level a team is at.  CSL has Gold, Silver Bronze, while SCDSL has Tier 1, 2, and 3, correct?  How do teams move up or down over the years?


CSL has well-defined promotion and relegation guidelines, subject to appeal (and, some have claimed, infernal hidden politics).  SCDSL allows coaches and DOCs to request the level where they wish a team to be placed, subject to review and approval by persons unknown.


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## Wez (Jul 20, 2016)

espola said:


> I was questioning what "made up of kids who are flight one quality" means.


And my response was unclear?


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## espola (Jul 20, 2016)

Wez said:


> And my response was unclear?


Your response was circular.


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## timbuck (Jul 20, 2016)

Wez said:


> That's a strange comment.  It does raise some questions.
> 
> Why would a team who holds themselves out to be flight one, want to enter a flight 2 tournament bracket?  Are you implying that a team who is seeking flight 1 status by SCDSL, would intentionally enter a lower bracket, just to get a win at flight 2?  Would a win at flight 2 count more then a close game loss at flight 1?
> 
> I'm curious how SCDSL will handle this considering how much movement in players there has been.


Some clubs have multiple teams in an age group that are planning to play flight 1. 
I know of one team that is planning to play flight 1 that was a flight 2 tournament winner this past weekend.
Not sure if that was their choice or if that's where the tournament put them. Their other team also won Flight 1.


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## scsoccerdad (Jul 20, 2016)

Hearing that the tentative brackets released for SCDSL. Anyone have link? Also, any insight to difference in level of play between Champion and Europa divisions?


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## Wez (Jul 20, 2016)

espola said:


> Your response was circular.


It is now.

What is circular about a team made up of players good enough to compete well against existing flight 1 teams?

No need for us to be cyptic with each other, do you find something off or weird about what I'm posting?


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## Wez (Jul 20, 2016)

timbuck said:


> Some clubs have multiple teams in an age group that are planning to play flight 1.
> I know of one team that is planning to play flight 1 that was a flight 2 tournament winner this past weekend.
> Not sure if that was their choice or if that's where the tournament put them. Their other team also won Flight 1.


I can't speak to that particular situation.  I know our team has entered a couple tournaments and requested flight 1 brackets/divisions.  When we show up, we get the feeling that the brackets/divisions were composed of whoever signed up for the tournament at that age group.  Point being, you can indicate to a tournament organizer your intention to play flight 1 only, but still end up where ever they want to put you.


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## jrcaesar (Jul 20, 2016)

Also, some SCDSL clubs _sell _that they have teams at every level, thus their training and team is appropriate for your kids' level of play. So regardless of whether the tier 1 team is fully made up of "flight 1 quality" players, they will enter that flight. I would expect the top flights this year will be quite imbalanced because of the age changes and, as Espola writes, approval by persons unknown to appease DOC requests.


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## GunninGopher (Jul 20, 2016)

scsoccerdad said:


> Hearing that the tentative brackets released for SCDSL. Anyone have link?


The last day to change flights is supposed to be tomorrow, so I doubt anything will be released prior to that.


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## Soccerlife (Jul 20, 2016)

A related question: Why do some teams have an asterisk following their name on the SCDSL website?


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## FCGS2002 (Jul 20, 2016)

You'll see some coaches scratching their head this coming season!  For instance, we are an older b02 team half of them played u14 last year in premier, most teams in this age group were u13  gold/silver elite, and jumping to premier. We have played some of these teams and you can see the speed, size and experience between the two. I hope your coach/Doc was being realistic as to what bracket a team should play, this year has more factors then any other time in youth soccer. God luck and always have fun...


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## soccerchaffeur (Jul 21, 2016)

Flights are out...
https://ssl.demosphere.com/scripts/runisa.dll?S7.65966:gp::73496+Elements/Display+E+47116+Team/


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## Wez (Jul 21, 2016)

17 B04 flt 1, 53 flt 2, that seems smart... smh


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## sbay (Jul 21, 2016)

Just looking at my son's group I am glad to see that some teams are being realistic with what they have.  It is not  fun to beat teams up if they choose to play in the wrong flight.  Last year we played a team in the flight 1 bracket who lost every game.  I don't know how young boys can gain confidence by being pounded every week.

17 boys in the flight 1 04 group is great.  We have or will play many of the teams by the start of season and there is some great competition.  I look forward to watching some great futbol!


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## Wez (Jul 21, 2016)

"If" you're one of the 17 I would imagine it looks great


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## timbuck (Jul 21, 2016)

Looking at girls 2005, there are a few flight 1 teams that won 2 or less games last year in Flight 1 in gu11?
Did they have most of their team last year born in 2005?


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## younothat (Jul 22, 2016)

SCDSL so much promise 1st couple of years but that has faded somewhat,  league appears not be growing any longer and the management is somewhat ambivalent. 

With the calender year change thought there would be a bunch more teams in this league compared to last year but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Flights 2's continue to get the most teams,  Flight 3 less teams, and Flight 1 about the same or fewer teams.

The larger clubs have almost interclub play in some of these flights;   (6) Six CDA Slammers teams in some of the flight 1's or (7) seven teams in Flight 2's for the Pats
in 03's for example indicates the league needs a better way to  manage or organize the competition.


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## Technician72 (Jul 22, 2016)

timbuck said:


> Looking at girls 2005, there are a few flight 1 teams that won 2 or less games last year in Flight 1 in gu11?
> Did they have most of their team last year born in 2005?


G05 is actually pretty balanced in comparison to some of the other age groups, but there still are some teams in Flight 1 that make you scratch your head.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 22, 2016)

espola said:


> Your response was circular.


So is this argument!


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## atbebtg (Jul 22, 2016)

Technician72 said:


> G05 is actually pretty balanced in comparison to some of the other age groups, but there still are some teams in Flight 1 that make you scratch your head.


I know for a fact that 2 of the flight 1 team from last year gu11 that won 2 or less game was completely dismantled with only 1 or 2 players returning.  However, after the rebuilding i don't know if they should be playing flight 1 or not.


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## espola (Jul 22, 2016)

atbebtg said:


> I know for a fact that 2 of the flight 1 team from last year gu11 that won 2 or less game was completely dismantled with only 1 or 2 players returning.  However, after the rebuilding i don't know if they should be playing flight 1 or not.


There is no "should be".


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## Wez (Jul 22, 2016)

I'm guessing, for this year, with all the shifting, if you mixed the flight 1 teams into the flight the flt 2 division, at least half of them would not finish at the top of the rankings.  Obviously there is a cream of the crop whose composition is still mostly the same from last year and will be fantastic teams, but I'm guessing half of them are courtesy flt 1 slots, based on last year, which has little relevance to this year.


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## GKDad65 (Jul 28, 2016)

Unfortunately, your position as a " Flight I" team has little to do with your teams playing ability this year.


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## timbuck (Jul 28, 2016)

You'll hear people with older kids complain that the new age group changes means that their kid is going to "lose a year" because they will age out sooner.
But for the younger groups, some may consider this year to be a lost year too.  There will be some unbalanced games across all age groups this year.  I guess there always are, but this year should see some real discrepancies.


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## younothat (Jul 29, 2016)

Flights now listed:
http://www.scdslsoccer.com/clubdirectory/flights/index_E.html

Since they kids have been very young  players we always had a saying that has served them well  " Not who you play but how you play"

Neither of them to this date have much concern to what teams they are facing ; being consistent in your play, tactics, style, communications to teammates & coaches it more important to them.

Nothing should be wasted, there are learning experiences in any situation.


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## jrcaesar (Jul 29, 2016)

younothat said:


> SCDSL so much promise 1st couple of years but that has faded somewhat,  league appears not be growing any longer and the management is somewhat ambivalent.


Is it accurate that many (some?) of the coaches/clubs permit players to play in 2+  Saturday games for their Club's teams - maybe they don't play too many minutes in the morning, so they play for another club team in the afternoon? Not within the rules of course, but it sounds like many clubs do this?


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## younothat (Jul 29, 2016)

jrcaesar said:


> Is it accurate that many (some?) of the coaches/clubs permit players to play in 2+  Saturday games for their Club's teams - maybe they don't play too many minutes in the morning, so they play for another club team in the afternoon? Not within the rules of course, but it sounds like many clubs do this?


No, haven't seen or heard about that in SCDSL.   My kids played in the league first 3 years but  have moved on .

You can club pass but not on the same day.   Seen Saturday/Sunday passes either way or passing when a team has a bye or off week.

Playing for different teams the same day would be likely noticed either by the kids who play (know each other) or the roster review so I doubt you will see that unless some coaches want to risk suspensions & forfeits.


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## jrcaesar (Jul 29, 2016)

younothat said:


> No, haven't seen or heard about that in SCDSL.   My kids played in the league first 3 years but  have moved on .
> 
> You can club pass but not on the same day.   Seen Saturday/Sunday passes either way or passing when a team has a bye or off week.
> 
> Playing for different teams the same day would be likely noticed either by the kids who play (know each other) or the roster review so I doubt you will see that unless some coaches want to risk suspensions & forfeits.


Ok, thanks. It was suggested by a coach in a conversation I'd heard that "the other coaches do this" (and of course there are instances when some kids have bye weeks that they get club passed to other teams) but it struck me that this (2+ games in one day for diff. teams)  likely was not true.

What I was seeing happen was players passed down to "get playing time" for a game, but that would push the lower team's players onto the bench that week. Or at least once where a coach really wanted to "help" the lower flight team, he'd pass down several of the best players -- who then played the whole game while the team's regular kids watched. Probably not how the player passes are supposed to work.


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## mirage (Jul 29, 2016)

jrcaesar said:


> ....... it struck me that this (2+ games in one day for diff. teams)  likely was not true.
> 
> What I was seeing happen was players passed down to "get playing time" for a game, but that would push the lower team's players onto the bench that week. Or at least once where a coach really wanted to "help" the lower flight team, he'd pass down several of the best players -- who then played the whole game while the team's regular kids watched. *Probably not how the player passes are supposed to work.*


There is a SCDSL rule that prohibits any player playing for more than one team/day.  Is the rule ever broken, I don't know but strange things have know to happen time to time.

As for player playing down a level and starting.  It happens all the time.  Not just players that don't get minutes on their team, looking for additional field time.  I have seen Flight 1 starters play on Flight 3 team to secure table position during league play.  I've also seem bottom flight 1 players on a team refusing to play down, when offered to gain field time.  But, vast majority of the time, its because the team is short of players and the coach goes to upper tier team for help, rather than peer or lower tier team (some clubs only have one in each age group).  Other example that often happens is a kid playing up a year and doesn't play as much so the player often guests own age and starts.

Playing time is strictly performance based, especially as they get older. Its really parents job to match the player's level and the team's level.  DOCs will simply take the money for team that makes parents happen and let the kid flounder on a high level team.  Just make sure that the player is in the top half of the team's level, and not the bottom half.... 

I know the league is supposed to be for development and often winning is treated like a sin because the coach played better players in the game over "less developed".  The truth of the matter is that players that cannot make the right decisions, plays, and turns the ball over is not ready for the speed of plays and pressure at the level.  It does nothing to continue with those players in that situation. Often it leads to undermine the development and results in the player liking soccer less and less.  

Learning what it takes to win is a very important part of the development, and often is not discussed because its not skills and techniques.  The mental and soccer IQ part of the game is often ignored in the "development" discussion.  This include putting the individual effort - mentally and physically - to break into the starting 11 on the team.


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## Eagle33 (Jul 29, 2016)

jrcaesar said:


> Ok, thanks. It was suggested by a coach in a conversation I'd heard that "the other coaches do this" (and of course there are instances when some kids have bye weeks that they get club passed to other teams) but it struck me that this (2+ games in one day for diff. teams)  likely was not true.
> 
> What I was seeing happen was players passed down to "get playing time" for a game, but that would push the lower team's players onto the bench that week. Or at least once where a coach really wanted to "help" the lower flight team, he'd pass down several of the best players -- who then played the whole game while the team's regular kids watched. *Probably not how the player passes are supposed to work.*


It is allowed for Goalkeepers only to play 2 games on a same day in SCDSL. It is NOT allowed for any other player.


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## Sparky9 (Jul 29, 2016)

Our coach doesnt always start the same 11 players. He avoids calling anyone a "starter" or a "bench" player. Being competitve and paying attention in practice will earn you a start in the next game. Fuels competition, keeps unity, and rewards hard work. We all know who the strongest 11 players are but he is tougher on them and if they don't give the effort, he is not afraid to make changes.


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## Goalie1310 (Aug 9, 2016)

Eagle33 said:


> It is allowed for Goalkeepers only to play 2 games on a same day in SCDSL. It is NOT allowed for any other player.


The only player or position that can play two games in one day on two different teams for the same club is the keeper.


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## GKDad65 (Aug 11, 2016)

Too many flights made up of only a few clubs.  Lots of inter-club play is a waste of hard earned cash!    ...and doesn't benefit the players at all.
SCDSL is becoming just another league (if it hasn't already).
Uncontrolled growth and the lure of all that money has diluted its value in the So Cal scene.
Too bad...


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## *GOBEARGO* (Aug 12, 2016)

GKDad65 said:


> Too many flights made up of only a few clubs.  Lots of inter-club play is a waste of hard earned cash!    ...and doesn't benefit the players at all.
> SCDSL is becoming just another league (if it hasn't already).
> Uncontrolled growth and the lure of all that money has diluted its value in the So Cal scene.
> Too bad...[/QUOTE
> ...


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## jrcaesar (Aug 12, 2016)

*GOBEARGO* said:


> So what if the club is the same name. Different players, different levels. If they all had different names that would make a difference? Why?


Because you're paying $80+!referee fees, whatever amount league fees, and whatever home field fees to play a team you could scrimmage for free at any time. Granted, there's no promotion or relegation, so the record doesn't really matter.


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## *GOBEARGO* (Aug 13, 2016)

jrcaesar said:


> Because you're paying $80+!referee fees, whatever amount league fees, and whatever home field fees to play a team you could scrimmage for free at any time. Granted, there's no promotion or relegation, so the record doesn't really matter.


Think we're talking about 2 different things here. I'm referring to name only and I think you're referring to the same club that has multiple teams within an age group playing in the same flight correct? As an example my son's flight has 3 other Arsenal teams within the group but all are from different regions.


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## jrcaesar (Aug 13, 2016)

*GOBEARGO* said:


> Think we're talking about 2 different things here. I'm referring to name only and I think you're referring to the same club that has multiple teams within an age group playing in the same flight correct? As an example my son's flight has 3 other Arsenal teams within the group but all are from different regions.


Yes, I was thinking that. I see a couple scenarios where this is the case.


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## timbuck (Aug 13, 2016)

There really could be seperate leagues for some teams with the same name.  And then every few weeks, have inter-club play. 
Strikers (there's at least 6 different clubs that fly a strikers flag)
Slammers (original, CDA and South)
Surf (San Diego, San Clemente, I.E., more?)
Galaxy (southbay, LA, San Diego. Why isn't there an OC Galaxy yet?)
Pats (at least 6 different groups)

I'm sure if someone could figure out if there's money to be made, it would happen.


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