# Play High School or Not?



## greekgirl (Oct 31, 2018)

My DD (freshman) is on the fence about playing on her HS team. Several years ago the HS had a big shake up with the coaches leaving and the asst coach becoming varsity coach. Last year the varsity team was 1-19-1 (yes, 19 losses). DD is on the fence, on the one hand could give her alot of play time and experience.... on the other hand how much fun is it to lose that much and then there's the potential for injury too.

Thoughts? Has anyone's DD or DS had this situation? how did it turn out?

Thanks


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## timbuck (Oct 31, 2018)

Hasn’t your team already had tryouts and team announcements?
If she tried out, made the team and accepted the spot-  she should play. 
Because there’s probably a heartbroken kid that didn’t make the team and would have been the next player chosen if your daughter hadn’t been offered the spot.


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## outside! (Oct 31, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Hasn’t your team already had tryouts and team announcements?
> If she tried out, made the team and accepted the spot-  she should play.
> Because there’s probably a heartbroken kid that didn’t make the team and would have been the next player chosen if your daughter hadn’t been offered the spot.


Don't know where the OP is from, but in CIFSD, high school tryouts are next week.


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## greekgirl (Oct 31, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Hasn’t your team already had tryouts and team announcements?
> If she tried out, made the team and accepted the spot-  she should play.
> Because there’s probably a heartbroken kid that didn’t make the team and would have been the next player chosen if your daughter hadn’t been offered the spot.


Tryouts are over the next few weeks.


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## coachsamy (Oct 31, 2018)

greekgirl said:


> My DD (freshman) is on the fence about playing on her HS team. Several years ago the HS had a big shake up with the coaches leaving and the asst coach becoming varsity coach. Last year the varsity team was 1-19-1 (yes, 19 losses). DD is on the fence, on the one hand could give her alot of play time and experience.... on the other hand how much fun is it to lose that much and then there's the potential for injury too.
> 
> Thoughts? Has anyone's DD or DS had this situation? how did it turn out?
> 
> Thanks


My DD will play for her school regardless of records, who is the coach, and any other possible distractions. HS Varsity sports are about representing the school and play for the pride of the school. 

Don't let any of the outside negativity take that away.


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## espola (Oct 31, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> My DD will play for her school regardless of records, who is the coach, and any other possible distractions. HS Varsity sports are about representing the school and play for the pride of the school.
> 
> Don't let any of the outside negativity take that away.


If you play for your high school team, you wear your team jersey to classes on big game days and fellow students will usually express home-team support. 

If you play for a DA team, you can wear your team jersey every day and no one will care.


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## timbuck (Oct 31, 2018)

greekgirl said:


> Tryouts are over the next few weeks.


Got it. Thanks.  OC high schools announced their teams over 2 weeks ago.  Some as early as September.


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## espola (Oct 31, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Got it. Thanks.  OC high schools announced their teams over 2 weeks ago.  Some as early as September.


Are they holding tryouts for baseball and softball right now?


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## El Clasico (Oct 31, 2018)

greekgirl said:


> Tryouts are over the next few weeks.


Next few weeks? When does your season start? Where do you live?


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## MWN (Oct 31, 2018)

greekgirl said:


> My DD (freshman) is on the fence about playing on her HS team. Several years ago the HS had a big shake up with the coaches leaving and the asst coach becoming varsity coach. Last year the varsity team was 1-19-1 (yes, 19 losses). DD is on the fence, on the one hand could give her alot of play time and experience.... on the other hand how much fun is it to lose that much and then there's the potential for injury too.
> 
> Thoughts? Has anyone's DD or DS had this situation? how did it turn out?
> 
> Thanks


There is always the potential for injury, which should not be a factor unless she has a Letter of Intent from a good University.  

As @coachsamy stated above, the intrinsic value of playing for your school team isn't wins/losses, its the camaraderie that flows from playing with her classmates and upper classmates.  Its walking down the halls between classes as a Freshman and having the Juniors and Seniors recognize you and invite you to pizza after the game.

My son is a sophomore.  

Last year, before HS soccer he was waffling about continuing soccer, the grind of club soccer just wasn't as fun.  He nonetheless tried out and made the JV team (over the Frosh/Soph) and was the only Freshman to get the call up for the playoff run.   He loved it.  HS soccer renewed his love for the game and exposed him to kids that he would have never met.

This year he is on Varsity and fighting for the starting GK position against the 6'5" senior (my boy is 6'3"). Will he beat him out?  Don't know and don't care because the intrinsic benefit of playing HS soccer isn't development, its rounding out your HS experience.


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## outside! (Oct 31, 2018)

She can always tryout to get a feel for the coach and the team and then decide. She could even decide to quit the team at a later time if the atmosphere is toxic.


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## Multi Sport (Oct 31, 2018)

espola said:


> If you play for your high school team, you wear your team jersey to classes on big game days and fellow students will usually express home-team support.
> 
> If you play for a DA team, you can wear your team jersey every day and no one will care.


At my kids HS you are not allowed to wear any hat or jersey except the schools. Kinda lame...


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## Multi Sport (Oct 31, 2018)

greekgirl said:


> My DD (freshman) is on the fence about playing on her HS team. Several years ago the HS had a big shake up with the coaches leaving and the asst coach becoming varsity coach. Last year the varsity team was 1-19-1 (yes, 19 losses). DD is on the fence, on the one hand could give her alot of play time and experience.... on the other hand how much fun is it to lose that much and then there's the potential for injury too.
> 
> Thoughts? Has anyone's DD or DS had this situation? how did it turn out?
> 
> Thanks


The only thing I wpuld be hesitant about is if she is on the Frosh/Soph team. The fields that they play on are truly bad, filled with gopher holes, sprinkler heads and are just in overall bad shape.... wait... I think those are some of the same fields we get to play on in league.


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## espola (Oct 31, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> At my kids HS you are not allowed to wear any hat or jersey except the schools. Kinda lame...


Hmmm...  I can see an informal Senior project to see what you could get away with, attacking the definition of "jersey", for instance.


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## MWN (Oct 31, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> The only thing I wpuld be hesitant about is if she is on the Frosh/Soph team. The fields that they play on are truly bad, filled with gopher holes, sprinkler heads and are just in overall bad shape.... wait... I think those are some of the same fields we get to play on in league.


But at least those fields are natural grass and overall safer than the typical poorly maintained school district synthetic field.


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## Mom Taxi (Oct 31, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> My DD will play for her school regardless of records, who is the coach, and any other possible distractions. HS Varsity sports are about representing the school and play for the pride of the school.
> 
> Don't let any of the outside negativity take that away.


^This.


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## Speed (Oct 31, 2018)

My daughter is freshman played summer league and made JV for the year. The summer freshman soccer was bad-not great soccer and not great fields. She had a few players she played with that said if they didn’t make JV or higher as a freshman they were quitting. I was really proud of her she said She wouldn’t  quit that she wanted to play Jv or varsity but would play wherever they put her. Said playing for her school and being part of something that connected her with her high school were very important to her. Oh, and that summer league? Made her a different, better player for her club team....I don’t think it is anything that could’ve been coached...she was able to read the game differently, react differently and apply it to her club team. I am hoping the high school season goes really well for her knee bursitis and all.....


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## Multi Sport (Nov 1, 2018)

espola said:


> Hmmm...  I can see an informal Senior project to see what you could get away with, attacking the definition of "jersey", for instance.


It's done for the saftey of the kids. Heck.. my kids couldn't even wear a jersey with their Uncles name on it or my old Baseball jersey from HS.


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## Multi Sport (Nov 1, 2018)

MWN said:


> But at least those fields are natural grass and overall safer than the typical poorly maintained school district synthetic field.


Would MUCH rather have my kids play on natural grass but some of these natural grass fields that the Frosh/Soph teams will play on are after thoughts. Before it was redone my oldest daughter practiced at Palomar... probably the worst turf field I ever saw.


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## mulliganmom (Nov 1, 2018)

Lots of good stuff comes out of playing high school that benefits soccer:  renewed passion for the game, confidence making JV or Varisty as a freshman. Playing with older kids. New friends. Weekends off, mostly! No regular PE! She can always do it a year and then decide not to go back. Good luck


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## Surfref (Nov 1, 2018)

greekgirl said:


> My DD (freshman) is on the fence about playing on her HS team. Several years ago the HS had a big shake up with the coaches leaving and the asst coach becoming varsity coach. Last year the varsity team was 1-19-1 (yes, 19 losses). DD is on the fence, on the one hand could give her alot of play time and experience.... on the other hand how much fun is it to lose that much and then there's the potential for injury too.
> 
> Thoughts? Has anyone's DD or DS had this situation? how did it turn out?
> 
> Thanks


They could have been worse.  Coronado HS went from winning San Diego section a few years ago then firing the coach to a 0-12-4 record last year.

HS teams tend to have a lot of turnover and the quality of some teams can vary drastically from one year to another especially now with so many DA players not playing HS.  Have her try it out.  If she makes the varsity team she will make some new friends.


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## OrangeCountyDad (Nov 12, 2018)

MWN said:


> As @coachsamy stated above, the intrinsic value of playing for your school team isn't wins/losses, its the camaraderie that flows from playing with her classmates and upper classmates. Its walking down the halls between classes as a Freshman and having the Juniors and Seniors recognize you and invite you to pizza after the game.


this.  10 or even 5 years from now, they probably won't remember the score of this game or that game, but they'll remember the road trips, the pre-game dinners, and the friends they make.


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## Kicknit22 (Nov 12, 2018)

The biggest leap in development for girls, IMO, is thier freshman year of HS.  Playing 5 days a week, including games. Practicing with and against older, bigger, more mature players all the while (even if hey aren’t as skilled) is so beneficial.  I’ve seen so many players come back to Club,  after freshman year, far improved.  All this is secondary to the benefits of simply representing thier school and classmates.  As I’ve said before on other threads, HS sports are about so much more than the sport itself.  Best of luck GG.


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## greekgirl (Nov 13, 2018)

Good news is, she made the varsity team (the only freshman who made the team). She is excited like crazy. I'm going to sit back and enjoy the games and her excitement. Thank you everyone for your input and advice.


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## Kicknit22 (Nov 13, 2018)

greekgirl said:


> Good news is, she made the varsity team (the only freshman who made the team). She is excited like crazy. I'm going to sit back and enjoy the games and her excitement. Thank you everyone for your input and advice.


Hopefully, she has a blast.  Now, see if  you can stay clear of the DA train, so she won’t have to give it up. Enjoy the moments, they fly by.


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## Overtime (Dec 1, 2018)

Yesterday my daughters team played against a school with a GU16 national team player on the field.  This player plays for a club that transitioned from DA to ECNL only and chose to play high school.  Not sure if US Soccer would love this move but a case for the argument that girls at the elite level would play high school if given the opportunity stifled by DA.


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## Kicknit22 (Dec 1, 2018)

Overtime said:


> Yesterday my daughters team played against a school with a GU16 national team player on the field.  This player plays for a club that transitioned from DA to ECNL only and chose to play high school.  Not sure if US Soccer would love this move but a case for the argument that girls at the elite level would play high school if given the opportunity stifled by DA.


In my experience, and through many conversations, it’s the VAST MAJORITY of girls that want to play HS soccer.  No matter the skill level.


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## Soccer43 (Dec 1, 2018)

I know two elite players that played high school together two years ago together and had the best time.  Both left high school last year to play in the DA.  One left the DA  and is playing high school again while the second one is still in the DA.  The one playing high school is laughing and smiling and having fun and the other one, still in the DA, is lurking in the stands by herself, watching the games and very much wishing she could play.  What a way to spend your senior year.


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## Simisoccerfan (Dec 5, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> I know two elite players that played high school together two years ago together and had the best time.  Both left high school last year to play in the DA.  One left the DA  and is playing high school again while the second one is still in the DA.  The one playing high school is laughing and smiling and having fun and the other one, still in the DA, is lurking in the stands by herself, watching the games and very much wishing she could play.  What a way to spend your senior year.


Yeah what a way. My senior is playing next year in college and without DA should likely would not be.  Instead of playing a miserable game in the rain tonight with a team that none of her friends play on anymore, she is in Florida with 15 of her best friends.  When she gets back she is on break during the holidays for the first time in years and gets to go snowboarding in Utah. What a way to spend a senior year!


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## Kicknit22 (Dec 6, 2018)

I guess, on some level, if the HS experience and team sucked as bad as Simi’s kid’s did, this thread may not exist.  I say this in all honesty, “good for you! Lil’ Simi”.  You’re doing what’s best for you and your situation.  Sounds like she will have “zero” regrets about her decision. Awesome!  I really wish I could say the same for my DD.  She’ll be playing DI in a couple years as well. But, that has nothing to do with DA.


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## Eagle33 (Dec 6, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Yeah what a way. My senior is playing next year in college and without DA should likely would not be.  Instead of playing a miserable game in the rain tonight with a team that none of her friends play on anymore, she is in Florida with 15 of her best friends.  When she gets back she is on break during the holidays for the first time in years and gets to go snowboarding in Utah. What a way to spend a senior year!


Let me understand this correctly...your DD has been playing 1 season at DA and that is the ONLY reason she made D1 school?


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## str8baller (Dec 6, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> My DD will play for her school regardless of records, who is the coach, and any other possible distractions. HS Varsity sports are about representing the school and play for the pride of the school.
> 
> Don't let any of the outside negativity take that away.


Samy, didn't you post something about politics and BS the other day?  any changes in your opinion yet?  It can be a funny game with a variety of characters and issues, that's for sure


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## Simisoccerfan (Dec 6, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> Let me understand this correctly...your DD has been playing 1 season at DA and that is the ONLY reason she made D1 school?


Let's be clear.  If she had stayed with her previous club/team she would not have been seen.  The DA showcases gave her the exposure she needed.  ECNL would have done the same if that was an option for us.   I believe the talent was always there.


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## Simisoccerfan (Dec 6, 2018)

Kicknit22 said:


> I guess, on some level, if the HS experience and team sucked as bad as Simi’s kid’s did, this thread may not exist.  I say this in all honesty, “good for you! Lil’ Simi”.  You’re doing what’s best for you and your situation.  Sounds like she will have “zero” regrets about her decision. Awesome!  I really wish I could say the same for my DD.  She’ll be playing DI in a couple years as well. But, that has nothing to do with DA.


Where in my post did I say that her HS experience sucked?   And there is no reason to call me "Lil' Simi".   Her  team was undefeated last year in league and won league for the first time in years.  But this year none of her friends are playing anymore either due to graduating or choice.   So though she had a great year last year she does not miss it at all.  I was just offering a different viewpoint then the one of the DA player sitting in the stands wishing they could play.  Obviously every kids situation is different.


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## coachsamy (Dec 6, 2018)

str8baller said:


> Samy, didn't you post something about politics and BS the other day?  any changes in your opinion yet?  It can be a funny game with a variety of characters and issues, that's for sure


Not at all. My DD stills stands strong about wanting to play for the Varsity team even though she's still can't understand as of why she didn't made the team. Yes I'm very disappointed to learn that politics is the single reason why she's not playing Varsity soccer, but that doesn't change the fact of what Varsity sports are about. She had a great time playing Field Hockey and Lacrosse in which earned All League awards in both sports in her first season. 

As I was expecting that she would be declining playing for JV, she told me that she would embrace taking the captain armband and lead the group of F/S that look up to her. If the same coach returns next year I would encourage her to play another winter sport, or just take a break, because I have zero faith that she would be playing varsity next year as long that coach is there.

So to answer your question, my DD would still play for her HS over any other team regardless of the circumstances, well given the opportunity.


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## Kicknit22 (Dec 6, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Where in my post did I say that her HS experience sucked?   And there is no reason to call me "Lil' Simi".   Her  team was undefeated last year in league and won league for the first time in years.  But this year none of her friends are playing anymore either due to graduating or choice.   So though she had a great year last year she does not miss it at all.  I was just offering a different viewpoint then the one of the DA player sitting in the stands wishing they could play.  Obviously every kids situation is different.


Sorry for th misunderstanding, Simi.  When I used the “Lil’ Simi”, I was referring to your DD. Not you.  I’m sincere in saying “Good for her”.


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## Simisoccerfan (Dec 6, 2018)

Kicknit22 said:


> Sorry for th misunderstanding, Simi.  When I used the “Lil’ Simi”, I was referring to your DD. Not you.  I’m sincere in saying “Good for her”.


Thanks for clarifying!  Way to easy to always assume the negative online.  My bad.


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## Soccer43 (Dec 6, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Yeah what a way. My senior is playing next year in college and without DA should likely would not be.  Instead of playing a miserable game in the rain tonight with a team that none of her friends play on anymore, she is in Florida with 15 of her best friends.  When she gets back she is on break during the holidays for the first time in years and gets to go snowboarding in Utah. What a way to spend a senior year!


good for you that your DD is happy but broaden your horizons,  I was talking about a situation where someone is not happy and missing out on something - as I have said over and over, there are many pathways and many different experiences, doesn't mean it is a statement about your world.


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## Simisoccerfan (Dec 7, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> I know two elite players that played high school together two years ago together and had the best time.  Both left high school last year to play in the DA.  One left the DA  and is playing high school again while the second one is still in the DA.  The one playing high school is laughing and smiling and having fun and the other one, still in the DA, is lurking in the stands by herself, watching the games and very much wishing she could play.  What a way to spend your senior year.


good for you that your DD is happy but broaden your horizons, I was talking about a situation where someone is not happy and missing out on something - as I have said over and over, there are many pathways and many different experiences, doesn't mean it is a statement about your world.

My horizons are plenty broad.  I definately understand what you were trying to achieve by your post!


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## Multi Sport (Dec 7, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> When she gets back she is on break during the holidays for the first time in years and gets to go snowboarding in Utah. What a way to spend a senior year!


My daughter wants to try Snowboarding. I asked her to wait until after she graduates from college and is done playing soccer. When she comes home for Christmas in a week I can finally take her.


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## MarkM (Dec 7, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> I know two elite players that played high school together two years ago together and had the best time.  Both left high school last year to play in the DA.  One left the DA  and is playing high school again while the second one is still in the DA.  The one playing high school is laughing and smiling and having fun and the other one, still in the DA, is lurking in the stands by herself, watching the games and very much wishing she could play.  What a way to spend your senior year.


Since we are throwing around anecdotal BS for no reason, I'm in:  I know elite players in ECNL that refuse to play high school soccer because they were miserable when they played it.   And the point being . . . ?


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## Soccer43 (Dec 8, 2018)

point is offering alternative views and experiences so newbies get balanced perspectives and parents can feel less pressured to pick one thing or another.  And your point is?


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## Simisoccerfan (Dec 9, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> point is offering alternative views and experiences so newbies get balanced perspectives and parents can feel less pressured to pick one thing or another.  And your point is?


Well it would be exactly the same.  You should know that


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## Soccer43 (Dec 10, 2018)

I was asking what his point was for being sarcastic and questioning my post not his comment  I think MM can answer his own questions


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## End of the Line (Dec 11, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Well it would be exactly the same.  You should know that


You make a false equivalency, but of course you do.  On the one hand, Soccer43 favors kids having a choice whether to play HS or not and isn't trying to tell your kid what they can and can't do.  You, on the other hand, want to dictate what other people's kids must do even if it isn't in their best interests.  You think that forcing kids to skip HS against their will benefits your daughter because she needs the better players around her to skip HS so they will train with and play against her two extra months a year, which you apparently think it will make her a better player.  Good luck with that.  Maybe those two extra months will catapult her to the U20 WNT or Stanford will call at the last minute.

You also make the ridiculous assertion that kids who want to play HS do have a choice, and that you and GDA aren't forcing them do to anything because they can just f*** off and play outside the GDA if they don't like it.  But that's a false choice.  Even you admit your own daughter would not have gotten her college offer but for playing GDA, which is probably true for many kids like yours who are borderline college material and live in areas without any other meaningful platform for college exposure.  In other words, the choice often isn't between just playing HS or not.  It's about having to choose between playing HS and the opportunity to play in college.  Or being forced to choose between HS and their club team, coaches and players with whom they've played for years only to get kicked off  based on a rule that USSF said when they originally signed up for the GDA disaster would not be implemented until after they were off to college.

Keep your comments coming.  Things like missing school to fly to FL right before finals is a great idea and the only time and place to hold that showcase, although ECNL figured it out years ago and even USSF manages to always give their boys a more preferable earlier weekend.  That missing school in April to play in the snow is a great idea, so brilliant in fact that USSF is only making the girls do that also.  That kids should even miss 2 extra days for the Snow Showcase to acclimate to the altitude beyond the 2-3 they already miss in travel and off days. That a public school in Simi Valley is just as challenging as Harvard-Westlake and Phillips Exeter Academy, and that JMU has the same admission standards as Harvard and Stanford.  And, of course, that the pill can't help reduce the risk of ACL injury despite overwhelming medical evidence to the contrary.  How do you feel about USSF arming coaches and refs?


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 11, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> You make a false equivalency, but of course you do.  On the one hand, Soccer43 favors kids having a choice whether to play HS or not and isn't trying to tell your kid what they can and can't do.  You, on the other hand, want to dictate what other people's kids must do even if it isn't in their best interests.  You think that forcing kids to skip HS against their will benefits your daughter because she needs the better players around her to skip HS so they will train with and play against her two extra months a year, which you apparently think it will make her a better player.  Good luck with that.  Maybe those two extra months will catapult her to the U20 WNT or Stanford will call at the last minute.
> 
> You also make the ridiculous assertion that kids who want to play HS do have a choice, and that you and GDA aren't forcing them do to anything because they can just f*** off and play outside the GDA if they don't like it.  But that's a false choice.  Even you admit your own daughter would not have gotten her college offer but for playing GDA, which is probably true for many kids like yours who are borderline college material and live in areas without any other meaningful platform for college exposure.  In other words, the choice often isn't between just playing HS or not.  It's about having to choose between playing HS and the opportunity to play in college.  Or being forced to choose between HS and their club team, coaches and players with whom they've played for years only to get kicked off  based on a rule that USSF said when they originally signed up for the GDA disaster would not be implemented until after they were off to college.
> 
> Keep your comments coming.  Things like missing school to fly to FL right before finals is a great idea and the only time and place to hold that showcase, although ECNL figured it out years ago and even USSF manages to always give their boys a more preferable earlier weekend.  That missing school in April to play in the snow is a great idea, so brilliant in fact that USSF is only making the girls do that also.  That kids should even miss 2 extra days for the Snow Showcase to acclimate to the altitude beyond the 2-3 they already miss in travel and off days. That a public school in Simi Valley is just as challenging as Harvard-Westlake and Phillips Exeter Academy, and that JMU has the same admission standards as Harvard and Stanford.  And, of course, that the pill can't help reduce the risk of ACL injury despite overwhelming medical evidence to the contrary.  How do you feel about USSF arming coaches and refs?


Except ECNL and National League also ran events around the same time.  Just keep writing those checks as you complain.  DA is a choice and one you’ve begrudgingly accepted at least financially.  Just make sure you tell your DD she’s not allowed to play Da anymore because you don’t like it.


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## MarkM (Dec 11, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> You make a false equivalency, but of course you do.  On the one hand, Soccer43 favors kids having a choice whether to play HS or not and isn't trying to tell your kid what they can and can't do.  You, on the other hand, want to dictate what other people's kids must do even if it isn't in their best interests.  You think that forcing kids to skip HS against their will benefits your daughter because she needs the better players around her to skip HS so they will train with and play against her two extra months a year, which you apparently think it will make her a better player.  Good luck with that.  Maybe those two extra months will catapult her to the U20 WNT or Stanford will call at the last minute.
> 
> You also make the ridiculous assertion that kids who want to play HS do have a choice, and that you and GDA aren't forcing them do to anything because they can just f*** off and play outside the GDA if they don't like it.  But that's a false choice.  Even you admit your own daughter would not have gotten her college offer but for playing GDA, which is probably true for many kids like yours who are borderline college material and live in areas without any other meaningful platform for college exposure.  In other words, the choice often isn't between just playing HS or not.  It's about having to choose between playing HS and the opportunity to play in college.  Or being forced to choose between HS and their club team, coaches and players with whom they've played for years only to get kicked off  based on a rule that USSF said when they originally signed up for the GDA disaster would not be implemented until after they were off to college.
> 
> Keep your comments coming.  Things like missing school to fly to FL right before finals is a great idea and the only time and place to hold that showcase, although ECNL figured it out years ago and even USSF manages to always give their boys a more preferable earlier weekend.  That missing school in April to play in the snow is a great idea, so brilliant in fact that USSF is only making the girls do that also.  That kids should even miss 2 extra days for the Snow Showcase to acclimate to the altitude beyond the 2-3 they already miss in travel and off days. That a public school in Simi Valley is just as challenging as Harvard-Westlake and Phillips Exeter Academy, and that JMU has the same admission standards as Harvard and Stanford.  And, of course, that the pill can't help reduce the risk of ACL injury despite overwhelming medical evidence to the contrary.  How do you feel about USSF arming coaches and refs?


What a crybaby . . . or maybe just a high school coach/teacher with way too much time on their hands.   Wait.  Those are the same things.  My bad.


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## coachsamy (Dec 11, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> You make a false equivalency, but of course you do.  On the one hand, Soccer43 favors kids having a choice whether to play HS or not and isn't trying to tell your kid what they can and can't do.  You, on the other hand, want to dictate what other people's kids must do even if it isn't in their best interests.  You think that forcing kids to skip HS against their will benefits your daughter because she needs the better players around her to skip HS so they will train with and play against her two extra months a year, which you apparently think it will make her a better player.  Good luck with that.  Maybe those two extra months will catapult her to the U20 WNT or Stanford will call at the last minute.
> 
> You also make the ridiculous assertion that kids who want to play HS do have a choice, and that you and GDA aren't forcing them do to anything because they can just f*** off and play outside the GDA if they don't like it.  But that's a false choice.  Even you admit your own daughter would not have gotten her college offer but for playing GDA, which is probably true for many kids like yours who are borderline college material and live in areas without any other meaningful platform for college exposure.  In other words, the choice often isn't between just playing HS or not.  It's about having to choose between playing HS and the opportunity to play in college.  Or being forced to choose between HS and their club team, coaches and players with whom they've played for years only to get kicked off  based on a rule that USSF said when they originally signed up for the GDA disaster would not be implemented until after they were off to college.
> 
> Keep your comments coming.  Things like missing school to fly to FL right before finals is a great idea and the only time and place to hold that showcase, although ECNL figured it out years ago and even USSF manages to always give their boys a more preferable earlier weekend.  That missing school in April to play in the snow is a great idea, so brilliant in fact that USSF is only making the girls do that also.  That kids should even miss 2 extra days for the Snow Showcase to acclimate to the altitude beyond the 2-3 they already miss in travel and off days. That a public school in Simi Valley is just as challenging as Harvard-Westlake and Phillips Exeter Academy, and that JMU has the same admission standards as Harvard and Stanford.  And, of course, that the pill can't help reduce the risk of ACL injury despite overwhelming medical evidence to the contrary.  How do you feel about USSF arming coaches and refs?


And I thought that I was salty...


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## jpeter (Dec 12, 2018)

HS sports can be fun,  soccer is a bit different but can be a time of growth for the younger ones.

Home games can be entertaining and when you have your own cheering section like me kids school does it get some players pumped out.   Let's face it the opposite sexs that come out like athletes so that's a fringe benefit.  The School assemblies where you get recognized and high fived can be nice also, the local TV stations broadcasting the games, hey did your see my rocket goal...lso that was sweet....

In our section 2 person ref crews are used and that takes some adjustment, one of reasons the HS appears to be more physical is partly due to this IMO.

5 hours+ away on the bus rides while all three teams play can be tiring but good bonding times.  When all three come away with the W's especially on close games or last minute heroics the ride back can be pretty festive.

When your younger, say a sophomore playing Var & going up against a bunch of  older Juniors and seniors that can be challenging and a time for development for some, for my player it was at least. 

Some leagues have a mix of divisional teams so a div 4 team could end up play a div 2 or 1 team a couple time during league play.  Never really see this in club so it has is own postivies & negatives but the playoffs by division can be fun and the time where you see the teams rise or fall, the strength of the teams schedules definitely play a role in the long term.

Try it or watch some games before you knock HS soccer, while the depth of players might not be what some are used to the pride of playing for your home school can make this a very positive experience.


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## espola (Dec 12, 2018)

jpeter said:


> HS sports can be fun,  soccer is a bit different but can be a time of growth for the younger ones.
> 
> Home games can be entertaining and when you have your own cheering section like me kids school does it get some players pumped out.   Let's face it the opposite sexs that come out like athletes so that's a fringe benefit.  The School assemblies where you get recognized and high fived can be nice also, the local TV stations broadcasting the games, hey did your see my rocket goal...lso that was sweet....
> 
> ...


It used to be that the top-performing schools had their pick of club players who attended.  Now the DA program has picked off a few of the better players, but the top schools still have good games, especially season-ending rivalry games.

As for the 2-ref situation - the schools can pay for three refs if that is what they want.


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## LASTMAN14 (Dec 12, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> You make a false equivalency, but of course you do.  On the one hand, Soccer43 favors kids having a choice whether to play HS or not and isn't trying to tell your kid what they can and can't do.  You, on the other hand, want to dictate what other people's kids must do even if it isn't in their best interests.  You think that forcing kids to skip HS against their will benefits your daughter because she needs the better players around her to skip HS so they will train with and play against her two extra months a year, which you apparently think it will make her a better player.  Good luck with that.  Maybe those two extra months will catapult her to the U20 WNT or Stanford will call at the last minute.
> 
> You also make the ridiculous assertion that kids who want to play HS do have a choice, and that you and GDA aren't forcing them do to anything because they can just f*** off and play outside the GDA if they don't like it.  But that's a false choice.  Even you admit your own daughter would not have gotten her college offer but for playing GDA, which is probably true for many kids like yours who are borderline college material and live in areas without any other meaningful platform for college exposure.  In other words, the choice often isn't between just playing HS or not.  It's about having to choose between playing HS and the opportunity to play in college.  Or being forced to choose between HS and their club team, coaches and players with whom they've played for years only to get kicked off  based on a rule that USSF said when they originally signed up for the GDA disaster would not be implemented until after they were off to college.
> 
> Keep your comments coming.  Things like missing school to fly to FL right before finals is a great idea and the only time and place to hold that showcase, although ECNL figured it out years ago and even USSF manages to always give their boys a more preferable earlier weekend.  That missing school in April to play in the snow is a great idea, so brilliant in fact that USSF is only making the girls do that also.  That kids should even miss 2 extra days for the Snow Showcase to acclimate to the altitude beyond the 2-3 they already miss in travel and off days. That a public school in Simi Valley is just as challenging as Harvard-Westlake and Phillips Exeter Academy, and that JMU has the same admission standards as Harvard and Stanford.  And, of course, that the pill can't help reduce the risk of ACL injury despite overwhelming medical evidence to the contrary.  How do you feel about USSF arming coaches and refs?


Do you paraphrase all of your posts? Then insert your most recent gripe?


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## G03_SD (Dec 12, 2018)

Are there other sports besides soccer that kids opt out of playing for their HS to play in clubs (DA)? I don't see kids playing high level lacrosse, field hockey and basketball having to choose.


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## Simisoccerfan (Dec 12, 2018)

I was having a hard time following the last several posts until I saw there was a post from a member that I ignore.

End,

You seem to harbor some sort of hate for me and enjoy taking arguments into the personal realm.  You misrepresent me at every chance.  For those kids playing HS I am happy for them.  Those playing DA and not wanting to play HS I am happy for them to.  I draw the line though when you attack my daughter and call her bordeline material.  I think you show that your true self in every one of your posts.  Good luck to you, your family  and your future.


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## Soccerfan2 (Dec 12, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Do you paraphrase all of your posts? Then insert your most recent gripe?


I was wondering if the audience is so broad that it needs to be repeated in full every week or so? Or, Russian bot...?


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## younothat (Dec 13, 2018)

G03_SD said:


> Are there other sports besides soccer that kids opt out of playing for their HS to play in clubs (DA)? I don't see kids playing high level lacrosse, field hockey and basketball having to choose.


The combination of DA and another HS sport can work for the highly motivated student who also whats to maintain good grades but its very difficult and not for everyone or even most I would say.  The practice schedules are what gets you more than the game schedules nowadays since DA schedules are now not every weekend like they used to be in the fall.   The out of state/area games where you're gone for the weekend for DA however does complicate things.  

Works better for spring or winter sports vs  the fall ones.    Football for one would be extremely difficult with there game & practice schedule.   Playing Friday nights and then a soccer game the next day would be nuts physically unless you player was just the kicker or punter.  Some programs also have mandatory weekend practices that can conflict with the fall soccer game schedules. 

Baseball, boys volleyball and Track & Field are more manageable but baseball is so time consuming that I dunno about that one.   Basketball is in the winter so if you can keep up with the practice schedule that's possible but with any dual sports you will have some double days training days (one sport in day, the other later early or later night)  This is really tough when this goes on and at some point/weeks you will likely miss some practices  and get fatigued, managing this is one of the toughest things to do but can be rewarding if not tiring.


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## End of the Line (Dec 13, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> I was having a hard time following the last several posts until I saw there was a post from a member that I ignore.
> 
> End,
> 
> You seem to harbor some sort of hate for me and enjoy taking arguments into the personal realm.  You misrepresent me at every chance.  For those kids playing HS I am happy for them.  Those playing DA and not wanting to play HS I am happy for them to.  I draw the line though when you attack my daughter and call her bordeline material.  I think you show that your true self in every one of your posts.  Good luck to you, your family  and your future.


As I have told you already, I do not care for your ongoing disrespectful and flippant comments and complete lack of consideration for points made by others.  As long as you continue making them, I'll continue returning the favor because it is a lot of fun bullying the bully.  When you're ready to post thoughtful commentary without mocking others, or even show the slighted sense of humor, you'll get treated with the respect that you currently don't deserve.  Unfortunately, I get the sense you consider yourself too much of a "manly man" to change your behavior, so we'll probably be back at in a week or two.


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 13, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> As I have told you already, I do not care for your ongoing disrespectful and flippant comments and complete lack of consideration for points made by others.  As long as you continue making them, I'll continue returning the favor because it is a lot of fun bullying the bully.  When you're ready to post thoughtful commentary without mocking others, or even show the slighted sense of humor, you'll get treated with the respect that you currently don't deserve.  Unfortunately, I get the sense you consider yourself too much of a "manly man" to change your behavior, so we'll probably be back at in a week or two.


Pot calling the kettle black!!!!


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## End of the Line (Dec 13, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> Except ECNL and National League also ran events around the same time.  Just keep writing those checks as you complain.  DA is a choice and one you’ve begrudgingly accepted at least financially.  Just make sure you tell your DD she’s not allowed to play Da anymore because you don’t like it.


Thanks for bringing up the ECNL event "around the same time", which is an obvious misrepresentation.  As you know, the ECNL event was held in AZ over a 3 day holiday weekend three weeks earlier.  Comparing the two, a player from CA could attend the ECNL showcase without missing any school and at a time that has no impact on finals, whereas most need to miss 3 days for the GDA event in FL and for many their first final is the day after they play a game and then fly across the country.  You also save money on the flight and hotel costs because it's regional.  It is also important to note that ECNL holds more (six I believe) showcase events in various locations throughout the year, which gives clubs a menu of options to attend the two that make the most sense for them.  Which means that a team from NY isn't required to fly 5 hours across the country to play in AZ because they can participate in the other closer events, and a team from CA isn't required to fly to NJ if they don't want.  But if they want to go, great.

By all means be a useful contributor.  Rather than the ad hominems that you and @Simisoccerfan rely on, go ahead and state the case why the GDA fall showcase is perfect, including the timing and location.  Explain why it is a better system than ECNL's, which provides a menu of options that allows teams to attend the events that make the most sense for them.  Explain why Veteran's Day weekend (which requires no missed school, has no impact on finals, and doesn't even require you to be there if it doesn't make sense for your team) is a worse weekend for a showcase than the week before finals.  Explain why it is better for the girls DA players to always get the weekend before finals, while the boys get the earlier week.  Explain why a showcase in CO in late April is the best weekend and location in the U.S. to hold it.  Provide the medical study establishing that taking the pill has no impact on ACL tears in girls.  Provide the medical study showing that in-game fatigue is not a leading cause of catastrophic knee injuries.  Be a real man by explaining your positions and supporting them with proof where appropriate.  I've been asking for months and neither of you have stepped up to the plate.  I don't think you have it in you.  I think all you're good for is the ad hominem, that you have no legitimate arguments to make and you're too chicken (or maybe wise) to defend the indefensible.  Prove me wrong.


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## coachsamy (Dec 13, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> Thanks for bringing up the ECNL event "around the same time", which is an obvious misrepresentation.  As you know, the ECNL event was held in AZ over a 3 day holiday weekend three weeks earlier.  Comparing the two, a player from CA could attend the ECNL showcase without missing any school and at a time that has no impact on finals, whereas most need to miss 3 days for the GDA event in FL and for many their first final is the day after they play a game and then fly across the country.  You also save money on the flight and hotel costs because it's regional.  It is also important to note that ECNL holds more (six I believe) showcase events in various locations throughout the year, which gives clubs a menu of options to attend the two that make the most sense for them.  Which means that a team from NY isn't required to fly 5 hours across the country to play in AZ because they can participate in the other closer events, and a team from CA isn't required to fly to NJ if they don't want.  But if they want to go, great.
> 
> By all means be a useful contributor.  Rather than the ad hominems that you and @Simisoccerfan rely on, go ahead and state the case why the GDA fall showcase is perfect, including the timing and location.  Explain why it is a better system than ECNL's, which provides a menu of options that allows teams to attend the events that make the most sense for them.  Explain why Veteran's Day weekend (which requires no missed school, has no impact on finals, and doesn't even require you to be there if it doesn't make sense for your team) is a worse weekend for a showcase than the week before finals.  Explain why it is better for the girls DA players to always get the weekend before finals, while the boys get the earlier week.  Explain why a showcase in CO in late April is the best weekend and location in the U.S. to hold it.  Provide the medical study establishing that taking the pill has no impact on ACL tears in girls.  Provide the medical study showing that in-game fatigue is not a leading cause of catastrophic knee injuries.  Be a real man by explaining your positions and supporting them with proof where appropriate.  I've been asking for months and neither of you have stepped up to the plate.  I don't think you have it in you.  I think all you're good for is the ad hominem, that you have no legitimate arguments to make and you're too chicken (or maybe wise) to defend the indefensible.  Prove me wrong.


ECNL Leaders must be proud of this guy. Not only they take his cash, but got him doing pro-bono marketing work. Win-win for ECNL.


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 13, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> Thanks for bringing up the ECNL event "around the same time", which is an obvious misrepresentation.  As you know, the ECNL event was held in AZ over a 3 day holiday weekend three weeks earlier.  Comparing the two, a player from CA could attend the ECNL showcase without missing any school and at a time that has no impact on finals, whereas most need to miss 3 days for the GDA event in FL and for many their first final is the day after they play a game and then fly across the country.  You also save money on the flight and hotel costs because it's regional.  It is also important to note that ECNL holds more (six I believe) showcase events in various locations throughout the year, which gives clubs a menu of options to attend the two that make the most sense for them.  Which means that a team from NY isn't required to fly 5 hours across the country to play in AZ because they can participate in the other closer events, and a team from CA isn't required to fly to NJ if they don't want.  But if they want to go, great.
> 
> By all means be a useful contributor.  Rather than the ad hominems that you and @Simisoccerfan rely on, go ahead and state the case why the GDA fall showcase is perfect, including the timing and location.  Explain why it is a better system than ECNL's, which provides a menu of options that allows teams to attend the events that make the most sense for them.  Explain why Veteran's Day weekend (which requires no missed school, has no impact on finals, and doesn't even require you to be there if it doesn't make sense for your team) is a worse weekend for a showcase than the week before finals.  Explain why it is better for the girls DA players to always get the weekend before finals, while the boys get the earlier week.  Explain why a showcase in CO in late April is the best weekend and location in the U.S. to hold it.  Provide the medical study establishing that taking the pill has no impact on ACL tears in girls.  Provide the medical study showing that in-game fatigue is not a leading cause of catastrophic knee injuries.  Be a real man by explaining your positions and supporting them with proof where appropriate.  I've been asking for months and neither of you have stepped up to the plate.  I don't think you have it in you.  I think all you're good for is the ad hominem, that you have no legitimate arguments to make and you're too chicken (or maybe wise) to defend the indefensible.  Prove me wrong.


First, I was talking about the ECNL South Carolina event held right before Florida.  I can’t and won’t argue with how you feel.  But I will ask you again since you like to avoid the poinient questions:
1) Does it burn you up to write the checks to you GDA club knowing how much you hate DA?

2) knowing how you feel about DA and ECNL, why isn’t your DD playing ECNL?

3) Does your DD share the same animosity towards the GDA structure as you do?

Answer those and i’ll Happily give you my feedback on Florida!


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 13, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> ECNL Leaders must be proud of this guy. Not only they take his cash, but got him doing pro-bono marketing work. Win-win for ECNL.


Except his DD plays DA not ECNL!!!!


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## Simisoccerfan (Dec 13, 2018)

Kicker,  the ignore feature is a great option on this forum.  If enough of us do that maybe he will go away.  It is really not worth it to engage him in any sort of discussion.


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 13, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Kicker,  the ignore feature is a great option on this forum.  If enough of us do that maybe he will go away.  It is really not worth it to engage him in any sort of discussion.


So true....but I’m a bit of a glutton for punishment so i will call him out on his hypocrisy of paying into a league he despises, demands for answers yet won’t provide those asked of him, etc.  

I would love to be a fly on the wall when he tells his DD that he won’t pay for or let her to play in DA anymore because they won’t let her play HS and they choose really bad times and locations for Showcases. 

All of the event dates and rules have been in place for over a year, so if he is soooo against all of these factors why let her play?  Something just doesn’t add up.


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 13, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> .....Probably the best solution is that USSF should stop promoting its DA entirely because a bunch of trolls who need anti-depressants are just going to inevitably rip on it regardless of how heartwarming the story.  What exactly do you want USSF to do differently?


 @End of the Line , these are your words.....where did it all go south?  What made you one of the “trolls” (your words not mine) you spoke of not so long ago?


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## End of the Line (Dec 13, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> First, I was talking about the ECNL South Carolina event held right before Florida.  I can’t and won’t argue with how you feel.  But I will ask you again since you like to avoid the poinient questions:
> 1) Does it burn you up to write the checks to you GDA club knowing how much you hate DA?
> 
> 2) knowing how you feel about DA and ECNL, why isn’t your DD playing ECNL?
> ...


Just more ad hominem, which figures.  You can't provide any substantive support for any of the issues I've raised over the last few months.  Will anyone even try to put together a coherent analysis explaining why GDA is perfect and significant changes are not necessary for it to survive, let alone succeed?  Why GDA is the better option than ECNL if you have the choice between the two? Will anyone even try?  No?

OK then, for everyone whose daughter is deciding between ECNL (or any platform) and GDA, there does not appear to be a single person who can explain why GDA's platform is even remotely as good as ECNL's, or any other high level league for that matter.   Apparently no one disputes whether your daughter is much more likely to suffer a catastrophic knee injury in GDA than other leagues by virtue of limited substitution rules and inflexible training requirements.  Apparently no one disputes that GDA's decision to hold a showcase event the week before finals on the other side of the country, mandating missing three days of school to do it.  Apparently no one disputes that holding another showcase in CO in late April is a bad idea compared to all the other options.  Apparently no one disputes that the costs of the travel to play league games and showcases is wasted money, and that flying across the country to play teams worse than numerous others just down the street that you're barred from playing is idiotic.  Apparently, not a single person here can apparently identify a single way in which GDA is a superior platform to ECNL or other leagues.  Not a single person can apparently dispute that USSF favors the boys over the girls.  In fact, not a single person in this entire forum has apparently even tried to make the case for GDA being a better overall platform than ECNL, other than @Simisoccerfan says it's the best option when you have no other options.  No matter how much you ask politely, beg or even bait them, the best they can do is try to change the subject and block everyone who makes justifiable critiques of its platform.  And, as best I can tell, the only people who believe that GDA does not need significant improvement if it is to survive are science-deniers.  Shoot, some of them claim that all of the kids who play GDA love it, although approximately 20% of them fled the league after just one year, and probably another 10-15% this season.  That the boys side has been such a catastrophe that the men didn't qualify for the world cup for the first time in 30 years, and now USSF is gunning to ruin the women's side too.


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## End of the Line (Dec 13, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> @End of the Line , these are your words.....where did it all go south?  What made you one of the “trolls” (your words not mine) you spoke of not so long ago?


We've already been through this.  As I have already explained....



End of the Line said:


> I'm flattered to have a devotee who's analyzed my entire body of work, but what’s your point?  It's wrong to defend the GDA for the few things it does right if I’m going to criticize the many things it does wrong?


The difference between us is that I appreciate the things USSF does right and will stick up for them when they do, and I will criticize them when they don't. 

Why is it so hard to understand that I don't hate USSF or GDA?  I'm just pointing out that it's going to fail if it doesn't make a lot of changes.  How hard is it to admit that missing 3 days of school to fly across the country the week before finals is unnecessary and that there are better options?  That USSF loses important players and clubs because it does many unnecessary things that do not serve the interests of the consumers?  That Phoenix (or pretty much anywhere) is a better place than Denver for an April soccer tournament?  That everyone should be receptive to information that is even potentially helpful to reducing the risk of their daughter suffering a serious knee injury?

You'd think that you folks who love GDA so much would want USSF to do things that will help make it more accessible and help it prosper.  The fact that you don't is just one more reason GDA will fail.  Like USSF, you can't see what it's doing wrong although it's right in front of you.


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 13, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> Just more ad hominem, which figures.  You can't provide any substantive support for any of the issues I've raised over the last few months.  Will anyone even try to put together a coherent analysis explaining why GDA is perfect and significant changes are not necessary for it to survive, let alone succeed?  Why GDA is the better option than ECNL if you have the choice between the two? Will anyone even try?  No?
> 
> OK then, for everyone whose daughter is deciding between ECNL (or any platform) and GDA, there does not appear to be a single person who can explain why GDA's platform is even remotely as good as ECNL's, or any other high level league for that matter.   Apparently no one disputes whether your daughter is much more likely to suffer a catastrophic knee injury in GDA than other leagues by virtue of limited substitution rules and inflexible training requirements.  Apparently no one disputes that GDA's decision to hold a showcase event the week before finals on the other side of the country, mandating missing three days of school to do it.  Apparently no one disputes that holding another showcase in CO in late April is a bad idea compared to all the other options.  Apparently no one disputes that the costs of the travel to play league games and showcases is wasted money, and that flying across the country to play teams worse than numerous others just down the street that you're barred from playing is idiotic.  Apparently, not a single person here can apparently identify a single way in which GDA is a superior platform to ECNL or other leagues.  Not a single person can apparently dispute that USSF favors the boys over the girls.  In fact, not a single person in this entire forum has apparently even tried to make the case for GDA being a better overall platform than ECNL, other than @Simisoccerfan says it's the best option when you have no other options.  No matter how much you ask politely, beg or even bait them, the best they can do is try to change the subject and block everyone who makes justifiable critiques of its platform.  And, as best I can tell, the only people who believe that GDA does not need significant improvement if it is to survive are science-deniers.  Shoot, some of them claim that all of the kids who play GDA love it, although approximately 20% of them fled the league after just one year, and probably another 10-15% this season.  That the boys side has been such a catastrophe that the men didn't qualify for the world cup for the first time in 30 years, and now USSF is gunning to ruin the women's side too.


So....you want answers...answer mine (I asked first) and I’ll answer yours.  But , in the spirit of giving, I will say this,  DA, ECNL...the leagues don’t really matter.  Each has their benefits (honestly, I’d say it’s advantage ECNL for some of the obvious reasons you incessantly regurgitate to avoid answering anyone’s questions).   However, the one thing for me that supersede’s it ALL......my daughter.  What does she want, what are her goals, who is the BEST coach for her?  The best environment for her to reach her goals.  Whatever that may be, I support it as long as she holds up her end of the deal (effort, grades, etc).  Except, I don’t go around crying about the fact I don’t like the decisions I made and angrily attacking anyone who attempts to defend it.

I don’t know why I am even engaging except for the fact I am so intrigued by the psychology of someone who can harbor so much resentment towards something voluntary yet still continue to pay for it.


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## MarkM (Dec 13, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> So....you want answers...answer mine (I asked first) and I’ll answer yours.  But , in the spirit of giving, I will say this,  DA, ECNL...the leagues don’t really matter.  Each has their benefits (honestly, I’d say it’s advantage ECNL for some of the obvious reasons you incessantly regurgitate to avoid answering anyone’s questions).   However, the one thing for me that supersede’s it ALL......my daughter.  What does she want, what are her goals, who is the BEST coach for her?  The best environment for her to reach her goals.  Whatever that may be, I support it as long as she holds up her end of the deal (effort, grades, etc).  Except, I don’t go around crying about the fact I don’t like the decisions I made and angrily attacking anyone who attempts to defend it.
> 
> I don’t know why I am even engaging expect for the fact I am so intrigued by the psychology of someone who can harbor so much resentment towards something voluntary yet still continue to pay for it.


The dude doesn't have a kid playing DA.  EOL is a bitter high school coach (or perhaps his kid was a bench warmer?).  He lies about a lot of things - having a daughter playing DA wouldn't be the first.


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## End of the Line (Dec 13, 2018)

MarkM said:


> The dude doesn't have a kid playing DA.  EOL is a bitter high school coach (or perhaps his kid was a bench warmer?).  He lies about a lot of things - having a daughter playing DA wouldn't be the first.


More ad hominem.  That's all you have.  So sad.

Or do you want to be the person who finally steps up and explains why making kids miss 3 days of school the week before finals is such a great idea?  Can you be the one who points to a medical study that concludes the pill doesn't reduce the risk of ACL injury, or one that says that requiring kids to play full 90 minute games has no significant impact on the risk of ACL injury?  Come on.  Be the hero. Do what @Simisoccerfan can't.


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 13, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> Just more ad hominem, which figures.


Since i’m Obviously not making the arguement of ECNL v GDA because I’m an adult and know everyone has their own wants and needs and can find their own path, so I will provide you with your much desired ad hominem:


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## End of the Line (Dec 13, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> View attachment 3636
> Since i’m Obviously not making the arguement of ECNL v GDA because I’m an adult and know everyone has their own wants and needs and can find their own path, so I will provide you with your much desired ad hominem:


I guess that's a no.  BTW, I didn't ask you to make a case for GDA over ECNL.  My job for you was much simpler.  So who "wants and needs" their kid to miss 3 days of school the week for finals flying to FL when they could miss no school and save a bunch of money going to AZ instead, or just playing better teams down the street for $5 in gas money?  Who "wants and needs" to increase the risk of their child tearing their ACL? Since you're into attachments, here's one.  I know it's just a medical study and not a zinger meme, but still.


----------



## soccer661 (Dec 13, 2018)

It's been said a thousand times -- every kid has their own path/journey so to speak.
Let's not be so judgemental, geez-- whether your kid plays HS or not, whether they choose DA or ECNL, another league, etc...
Can't we just all support one another whatever anyone's INDIVIDUAL decision or situation is, c'mon guys. 

My kid played HS for 3 years (while in ECNL) -- the last year (her senior year) club switched over completely to DA and she did not play HS and it was absolutely fine.
(Many of her HS friends choose not to play either -also on the DA teams as well)
For those that did stay-- GREAT-- happy for them, it worked out. 
For those that didn't -- again, all GOOD...totally fine.  All that matters is:  is YOUR kid happy & on the path they want to be on??
And all the girls went to great colleges/universities that they were meant to go to.

Regarding this quote from End: 
"Or do you want to be the person who finally steps up and explains why making kids miss 3 days of school the week before finals is such a great idea?"
Ok guys-- Get used to it-- if your kid is going to play in college-- they MUST be able to juggle academics/school work and travel. They must be PROACTIVE with their teachers/professors. 
If they play the Thurs/Sunday schedule, they usually travel on Wed-- missing 3 days of school-- quite a bit thru the college fall season. 
And NCAA College Cup was also RIGHT before college finals...they have to deal with it. Is the NCAA in the wrong? When else are they supposed to do it??
NCAA Volleyball final four is now-- it is DURING finals-- I know for a fact most of the those girls had to make special arrangements and took their finals early...
It is what it is...I'm not saying it's easy, but if your kid wants to play college --this is the nature of the business.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Dec 13, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> ....Will anyone even try to put together a coherent analysis explaining why GDA is perfect and significant changes are not necessary for it to survive, let alone succeed?  Why GDA is the better option than ECNL if you have the choice between the two? Will anyone even try?  No?......


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Dec 13, 2018)

Here are some recent "ad hominem's":

-You make a false equivalency, but of course you do.  
-By all means be a useful contributor.
-I think all you're good for is the ad hominem, that you have no legitimate arguments to make and you're too chicken (or maybe wise) to defend the indefensible.-
- Unfortunately, I get the sense you consider yourself too much of a "manly man" to change your behavior, so we'll probably be back at in a week or two.


----------



## MarkM (Dec 13, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> More ad hominem.  That's all you have.  So sad.
> 
> Or do you want to be the person who finally steps up and explains why making kids miss 3 days of school the week before finals is such a great idea?  Can you be the one who points to a medical study that concludes the pill doesn't reduce the risk of ACL injury, or one that says that requiring kids to play full 90 minute games has no significant impact on the risk of ACL injury?  Come on.  Be the hero. Do what @Simisoccerfan can't.


I don't know whether Simisoccer fan is a liar or has ill-informed opinions.  But you are a liar, and repeatedly.  How many times are you going to claim that it snowed in Commerce, Colorado last year from April 26-30?  There is this thing called the internet.  People can look that kind of stuff up.  Why does someone so righteous have to make things up?  Weird, huh?

But as to your first point, it's never a good idea to miss school.  My kid seems to be handling it just fine though.  Do you know kids that can't handle it?  Is your kid struggling?  If so, I'm sorry to hear that.  My kid wouldn't be missing school for anything if it impacted her academics.  Luckily most kids in SoCal can choose the less rigorous option of ECNL if they can't hang.

As to your second point, if your kid is any good, she is playing 90 minutes regardless of whether its DA or ECNL.  Based on your comments, it sounds like you really never experience that.  Again, I'm sorry to hear that your kid can't ever get 90 minutes in an ECNL game.  At any rate, with ECNL, good kids are playing 3, ninety minute games over 3 days.  With GDA, kids are playing 3 games over 4 days.  You tell me what is better for kids' health?

As to discussion about the pill, I have no clue what you are talking about and I don't care.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Dec 13, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> More ad hominem.  That's all you have.  So sad.
> 
> Or do you want to be the person who finally steps up and explains why making kids miss 3 days of school the week before finals is such a great idea?  Can you be the one who points to a medical study that concludes the pill doesn't reduce the risk of ACL injury, or one that says that requiring kids to play full 90 minute games has no significant impact on the risk of ACL injury?  Come on.  Be the hero. Do what @Simisoccerfan can't.


I will respond to why no one will answer you. Why would we have to. They have already, and not just this thread but others. Therefore, why should anyone continue to answer. You just want someone to agree with you, but we don’t. More so because you don’t and won’t listen to what others have to say. You’re only interested in your agenda. Not to mention you go off on rants and tangents. Your attempt at being controversial is all about ego. And, to deflect you hide behind your new toy, the “AD HOMINEM” and redirect questions. Your lame (yes this is definitely an AD HOMINEM).


----------



## Kicker4Life (Dec 13, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> Who "wants and needs" to increase the risk of their child tearing their ACL? Since you're into attachments, here's one.  I know it's just a medical study and not a zinger meme, but still.


So explain how playing HS diminishes this risk?  You seem to have made an arguement with another poster about how the pill helps reduce risk of an ACL tear, so you and I will agree that there are ways of mitigating such inherent risks of all high level atheletes. 

Would you like to deflect further down another rabbit hole?


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Dec 13, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> So explain how playing HS diminishes this risk?  You seem to have made an arguement with another poster about how the pill helps reduce risk of an ACL tear, so you and I will agree that there are ways of mitigating such inherent risks of all high level atheletes.
> 
> Would you like to deflect further down another rabbit hole?


That’s an idiom. Careful it may be used against you.


----------



## outside! (Dec 14, 2018)

soccer661 said:


> It's been said a thousand times -- every kid has their own path/journey so to speak.
> Let's not be so judgemental, geez-- whether your kid plays HS or not, whether they choose DA or ECNL, another league, etc...
> Can't we just all support one another whatever anyone's INDIVIDUAL decision or situation is, c'mon guys.


soccer661. Some people just want to argue. It is almost as if they did not read your post, or else they did and it was translated by their brain as "Blah, blah, blah Ginger, blah, blah, blah."*

*Far Side reference about what humans say and what dogs hear.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Dec 14, 2018)

outside! said:


> soccer661. Some people just want to argue. It is almost as if they did not read your post, or else they did and it was translated by their brain as "Blah, blah, blah Ginger, blah, blah, blah."*
> 
> *Far Side reference about what humans say and what dogs hear.


Well played!


----------



## End of the Line (Dec 14, 2018)

soccer661 said:


> It's been said a thousand times -- every kid has their own path/journey so to speak.
> Let's not be so judgemental, geez-- whether your kid plays HS or not, whether they choose DA or ECNL, another league, etc...
> Can't we just all support one another whatever anyone's INDIVIDUAL decision or situation is, c'mon guys.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your attempt.  There is a difference between putting up with missing three days of school before finals and wanting to do it.  Let me ask you this, do you pull your kid out of school every year right before finals because you think it will help her get ready for the rigors of college?  How much extra will you pay for the privilege of forcing your kid to miss school? 

We are arguing two different things.  You are arguing that you are willing to put up with it, and I don't disagree.  But I do disagree to the extent you apparently claim it is such a good a concept that everyone who plays GDA should be forced to miss school before finals.  Just answer the question.  Are there better weekends to have the showcase?  I'd say that I am amazed that no one will concede that it's a bad weekend for the showcase but, then again, USSF agrees with you.


----------



## End of the Line (Dec 14, 2018)

MarkM said:


> I don't know whether Simisoccer fan is a liar or has ill-informed opinions.  But you are a liar, and repeatedly.  How many times are you going to claim that it snowed in Commerce, Colorado last year from April 26-30?  There is this thing called the internet.  People can look that kind of stuff up.  Why does someone so righteous have to make things up?  Weird, huh?
> 
> But as to your first point, it's never a good idea to miss school.  My kid seems to be handling it just fine though.  Do you know kids that can't handle it?  Is your kid struggling?  If so, I'm sorry to hear that.  My kid wouldn't be missing school for anything if it impacted her academics.  Luckily most kids in SoCal can choose the less rigorous option of ECNL if they can't hang.
> 
> ...


As for you comment about snow, click below:

https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/@5417737/historic?month=4&year=2016
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/@5417737/historic?month=4&year=2017

Thank you for at least conceding it is not a good idea to miss school; you are the first person to do that.  Whether your kid or my kid can handle missing school is not relevant to the question.  I'm sure most can put up with it, but being able to put up with something and being a good idea are two very different things.  If it were a good idea to make kids miss school before finals, everyone would be doing it, right?  Making kids miss school the week before finals deters kids playing in GDA in the first place and holds it back, and without a good reason.  GDA would be a much better platform if excellent clubs and players weren't leaving it because USSF does things like this.  Do you agree with that?

As for game length, no.  First, GDA makes kids play 90 minute games a year earlier, which is a bad idea for a 15 year old.  Second, sure, there are many bad ECNL and other coaches who will ride players too hard, that is the coach that is the problem, not the platform.  When GDA forces all coaches to ride kids too hard, that is the platform that is the problem and not the coach.  Third, although reasonable minds may differ, 3 games over 3 days is likely to be better when you properly manage minutes.  The medical consensus seems to be that a kid is less likely to get hurt if they play 75 minutes three days in a row than they are 90 minutes 3x in four days, or even 90 minutes twice and 75 minutes once.  If you have studies that show otherwise, I would love to discuss that in further detail, rather than the reflexive responses that I'm an a**hole when I say there are better ways to handle a showcase than making kids miss school the week before finals.  Notably, I have asked many people many times to identify medical studies that support their "I'm an asshole and wrong" mantras, with not a single person taking me up on it.  Regardless, I recommend that you look at the chart on the right of page 198 of my last post.  It is amazing what a brief rest (halftime in the case of the chart) does to reduce the injury risk.  If a kid could get even 5 minutes in the 70-75th minute, it could do wonders to player safety. There is no legitimate reason to force coaches to make half their team play 90 minute games, especially if development is the goal and not winning the game, which is something USSF claims.


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 14, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> Making kids miss school the week before finals deters kids playing in GDA in the first place and holds it back....


According to whom, you?



End of the Line said:


> As for game length, no.  First, GDA makes kids play 90 minute games a year earlier, which is a bad idea for a 15 year old.


At what age does GDA “make kids” play 90 min games and how is it a “year early?



End of the Line said:


> would love to discuss that in further detail, rather than the reflexive responses that I'm an a**hole when I say there are better ways to handle a showcase than making kids miss school the week before finals.  Notably, I have asked many people many times to identify medical studies that support their "I'm an asshole and wrong" mantras, with not a single person taking me up on it.  Regardless, I recommend that you look at the chart on the right of page 198 of my last post.  It is amazing what a brief rest (halftime in the case of the chart) does to reduce the injury risk.  If a kid could get even 5 minutes in the 70-75th minute, it could do wonders to player safety. There is no legitimate reason to force coaches to make half their team play 90 minute games, especially if development is the goal and not winning the game, which is something USSF claims.


I’ll keep this in 3 parts:

1) What makes you and “asshole” (your words, not mine) is not your position, but how you aggressively position it, attack other posters who disagree, deflect into different arguements, contradict yourself, etc....

2) Everyone who’s child plays DA made a choice, almost everyone I know with a DD playing DA are very happy with their decision.  There are some who are not and will likely make a move if things don’t improve for their DD.  However, not one of the issues they are having has ANYTHING to do with the points you are making.   You have a very apocalyptic viewpoint on what girls experience while playing DA, yet apparently have NO actual, tangible experience with it.  Only opinion.

My DD (who is off for the next 4 weeks) and I watched our neighbor (an ECNL player) play in her HS game last night.  It is their 4th game in just over a week.  She played the full 90 min as did 6 other players.  She actually has not sat out a minute of any game she has participated in (missed 2 games with a pulled hamstring....one she pulled during HS training). SO.... If you are HONESTLY sooo concerned about all our GDA players health, what aren’t you attacking the COACHES who play players this much with the same “Scientific Evidence” to protect the non GDA players as well?

And as for the 3 days of school, those who traveled to the ECNL event in NC missed 2 days of school a week before finals.  So is there a threshold for days missed that doesn’t trigger you?


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## Multi Sport (Dec 14, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> Let me ask you this, do you pull your kid out of school every year right before finals because you think it will help her get ready for the rigors of college?  How much extra will you pay for the privilege of forcing your kid to miss school?
> 
> .


So this happens every year?

As for getting ready for finals? If your kid knows in advance that they will be missing finals they can communicate this with their teachers and make proper arrangements. 

Does it help them prepare for college. I would argue that it could. My DD is graduating from College this Spring and the rigors of playing soccer in college, practice, travel and a heavy scholastic schedule is anything but easy. Your kid hopefully already has great study habits and is used to studying on the road.


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 14, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> So this happens every year?
> 
> As for getting ready for finals? If your kid knows in advance that they will be missing finals they can communicate this with their teachers and make proper arrangements.
> 
> Does it help them prepare for college. I would argue that it could. My DD is graduating from College this Spring and the rigors of playing soccer in college, practice, travel and a heavy scholastic schedule is anything but easy. Your kid hopefully already has great study habits and is used to studying on the road.


Well said and I will take it one step further.....our club has all of the girls travel together and stay together.  They have a schedule for each day that includes:  Meal times, 3+ Hours of study time, recovery sessions and team meetings.  So although they may not be in a classroom, they are getting school work done.


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## Fact (Dec 14, 2018)

Not to add fuel for END, but when my ds was traveling not all of his teachers were understanding and the school administration would not take a stand on the issue. He had to make sacrifices and change plans a few times not to miss labs and tests he was not going to be allowed to make up. He also took a few zeros.  Unfortunately some teachers have a chip on their shoulder, don't like sports or other extracurricular activities and are not willing to do what is best for the students, even their top students.


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## espola (Dec 14, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> Well said and I will take it one step further.....our club has all of the girls travel together and stay together.  They have a schedule for each day that includes:  Meal times, 3+ Hours of study time, recovery sessions and team meetings.  So although they may not be in a classroom, they are getting school work done.


We had a similar situation when my son traveled to Dallas Cup.  We all stayed in the same hotel, the hotel had a dining room set up for Dallas Cup teams (breakfasts were part of the package), and we went out together for dinner.  I don't think anyone actually studied - in my son's school, spring break was the week after we got back so he did his work then (and I believed him when he told me that).


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 14, 2018)

Fact said:


> Not to add fuel for END, but when my ds was traveling not all of his teachers were understanding and the school administration would not take a stand on the issue. He had to make sacrifices and change plans a few times not to miss labs and tests he was not going to be allowed to make up. He also took a few zeros.  Unfortunately some teachers have a chip on their shoulder, don't like sports or other extracurricular activities and are not willing to do what is best for the students, even their top students.


I’m sure it’s true and no, it’s not ideal to miss school.  But it also isn’t as catastrophic as its being portrayed when handled proactively.  

Thanks for the input!


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## End of the Line (Dec 14, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> According to whom, you?


According to Slammers, Hawks, PDA, FC Stars, Eclipse and all the other clubs that quit DA already, for starters.  Thank you for admitting that it isn't ideal to miss school, which makes you the second GDA Mafioso to at least concede the obvious.  I'm still holding out hope for @Simisoccerfan.  I think I can turn him around.  Perhaps he'll finally say something that makes sense.

Wanna talk about April snow in Colorado? The weatherman @MarkM seems to have snuck out the back door after I called his bluff and took up his recommendation to "check this thing called the Internet."


----------



## MarkM (Dec 14, 2018)

MarkM said:


> I don't know whether Simisoccer fan is a liar or has ill-informed opinions.  But you are a liar, and repeatedly.  How many times are you going to claim that it snowed in Commerce, Colorado last year from April 26-30?  There is this thing called the internet.  People can look that kind of stuff up.  Why does someone so righteous have to make things up?  Weird, huh?
> 
> But as to your first point, it's never a good idea to miss school.  My kid seems to be handling it just fine though.  Do you know kids that can't handle it?  Is your kid struggling?  If so, I'm sorry to hear that.  My kid wouldn't be missing school for anything if it impacted her academics.  Luckily most kids in SoCal can choose the less rigorous option of ECNL if they can't hang.
> 
> ...





End of the Line said:


> As for you comment about snow, click below:
> 
> https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/@5417737/historic?month=4&year=2016
> https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/@5417737/historic?month=4&year=2017
> ...


Dude, where is the link to April 2018?  It was easy to check 2018.  I thought you said it snowed the last *three *years in Commerce?   I'm not calling you an a-hole, but you are lying.  Why did you lie?

"The medical consensus seems to be that a kid is less likely to get hurt if they play 75 minutes three days in a row than they are 90 minutes 3x in four days, or even 90 minutes twice and 75 minutes once."  Huh?  What medical consensus?  Stop it clown.  The full of sh*t meter is overflowing.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Dec 14, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> According to Slammers, Hawks, PDA, FC Stars, Eclipse and all the other clubs that quit DA already, for starters.  Thank you for admitting that it isn't ideal to miss school, which makes you the second GDA Mafioso to at least concede the obvious.  I'm still holding out hope for @Simisoccerfan.  I think I can turn him around.  Perhaps he'll finally say something that makes sense.
> 
> Wanna talk about April snow in Colorado? The weatherman @MarkM seems to have snuck out the back door after I called his bluff and took up his recommendation to "check this thing called the Internet."


I’ve spoken to staff at LAFC/Slammers prior to their move away from DA was announced. It was not for any of your arguments.


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## MarkM (Dec 14, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I’ve spoken to staff at LAFC/Slammers prior to their move away from DA. It was not for any of your arguments.


Let's both of stop feeding the baby troll.


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## Multi Sport (Dec 14, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> According to Slammers, Hawks, PDA, FC Stars, Eclipse and all the other clubs that quit DA already, for starters.  Thank you for admitting that it isn't ideal to miss school, which makes you the second GDA Mafioso to at least concede the obvious.  I'm still holding out hope for @Simisoccerfan.  I think I can turn him around.  Perhaps he'll finally say something that makes sense.
> 
> Wanna talk about April snow in Colorado? The weatherman @MarkM seems to have snuck out the back door after I called his bluff and took up his recommendation to "check this thing called the Internet."


The Hawks were in DA?


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## End of the Line (Dec 14, 2018)

MarkM said:


> Dude, where is the link to April 2018?  It was easy to check 2018.  I thought you said it snowed the last *three *years in Commerce?   I'm not calling you an a-hole, but you are lying.  Why did you lie?
> 
> "The medical consensus seems to be that a kid is less likely to get hurt if they play 75 minutes three days in a row than they are 90 minutes 3x in four days, or even 90 minutes twice and 75 minutes once."  Huh?  What medical consensus?  Stop it clown.  The full of sh*t meter is overflowing.


I apologize.  It looks like it only snowed the day before in April 2018 and not that much.  You got me.  An April Showcase in Colorado is the best place for a showcase that weekend.


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## End of the Line (Dec 14, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> The Hawks were in DA?


Michigan Hawks.


----------



## End of the Line (Dec 14, 2018)

MarkM said:


> The medical consensus seems to be that a kid is less likely to get hurt if they play 75 minutes three days in a row than they are 90 minutes 3x in four days, or even 90 minutes twice and 75 minutes once."  Huh?  What medical consensus?  Stop it clown.  The full of sh*t meter is overflowing.


This is like deja vu all over again.  Per one study:

"The positive association between fatigue and injury risk was in accordance with results from research on elite soccer(15) and rugby(12) players. Accumulated minutes and a lack of rest days did not directly cause injuries, and researchers should examine the causal pathways linking fatigue to injuries, particularly given the variability in the estimated effects of these variables. In their investigation of knee injuries, Goitz et al(13) reported that knee-joint proprioception errors were greater during a state of fatigue and specifically suggested that the mechanism for ACL injuries is more likely to occur in fatigued states."​
But you should spend more time looking at this, which is a summary article that itself references some other solid studies, including one by MIT. https://fitforfutbol.com/2016/02/the-effect-of-travel-minutes-played-game-density-and-sleep-on-performance-injury-likelihood/  Below is an excerpt, since you apparently lacked time to read since the last time I posted it in this forum:

*Schedule Density is positively correlated with injuries *Schedule density has been linked with greater injuries and decreased quality of play. One study on soccer players found that the closer together games are played without adequate rest, the greater the likelihood for injury. *Interestingly, this relationship DOES NOT seem to occur for younger athletes. Likewise, there is data out of the **very trustworthy MIT Sloan conference** that suggests that back-to-back games and game density do not predict injuries.*

*Minutes Played in a game are positively correlated with injuries. *Injury rates rise proportional to the number of minutes played. Sometimes this one can be convoluted and obscured by the fact that many injuries occur in the first couple minutes are on the court or pitch. This is misleading though because all players who see game action MUST go through the early minutes of playing time before reaching longer durations of play. This same rationale is used to misrepresent the fact that more car accidents occur closer to home. Of course they do! You have to leave home before you can go anywhere else. Once we take this fact in to account though, *the evidence clearly indicates that injury likelihoods go up exponentially with minutes played. This has been observed in soccer (**1**, **2**), rugby and **basketball.*​
Your turn Doc.  @Simisoccerfan couldn't find a study to refute this, all he could do is call me names, which is one reason I repeatedly mock him.  I don't recommend that you continue making his same mistake, although I must say you've gotten off to a bad start calling me a clown when I've already provided some solid support for my position in this forum.


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## Multi Sport (Dec 14, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> Michigan Hawks.


Got it. 

Does Michigan have the same school calender as So Cal? I have a sister that lives on the East Coast and the school calendars don't always match up.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Dec 14, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> According to Slammers, Hawks, PDA, FC Stars, Eclipse and all the other clubs that quit DA already, for starters.


I asked who?  As in people at those organizations that would validate that their Club was forced to pull out of DA because their players were leaving due to missing school before finals to attend a Showcase (as you so explicitly put it).   Slammers....I mean LAFC/Slammers left DA for other reasons.  ECNL’s carrot being one of them, funding being another.

I am not part of some GDA Mafioso....my posts support this.  I’m just enjoying the process of exposing the half truths of your BS arguements (but you’re doing a good job of that for me......thanks little buddy)

That reminds me....you still standing by this statement:


End of the Line said:


> BTW, I didn't ask you to make a case for GDA over ECNL.


Yah...didn’t think so.

I take it your not continuing with your ACL argument because it actually isn’t the issue with DA as much as Elite Female atheletes and how COACHES can tend to exploit them (playing time)?  Should we pull up the studies that show the longer you Drive in a day increases your risk of getting into a car accident to help you see the hole in your argument?  ACL’s are no laughing matter, I’ve torn mine 3 times and guess what, I wasn’t playing DA (gasp), the sub rules didn’t exist, so it can happen regardless.



End of the Line said:


> Wanna talk about April snow in Colorado? The weatherman @MarkM seems to have snuck out the back door after I called his bluff and took up his recommendation to "check this thing called the Internet."


Ok this seems to be the last argument you can deflect towards.  So let’s play jeopardy,  I’ll give you 2 answers and you can give me your answer in the form of a question:

Answer #1 is:  61 degrees
Answer #2 is a 3 parter so bear with me:
  a) 22%
  b) <5%
  c) >1%

You can avoid answering these too, if yo wish.....but the rest of you can play along as well if you want.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Dec 14, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> I asked who?  As in people at those organizations that would validate that their Club was forced to pull out of DA because their players were leaving due to missing school before finals to attend a Showcase (as you so explicitly put it).   Slammers....I mean LAFC/Slammers left DA for other reasons.  ECNL’s carrot being one of them, funding being another.
> 
> I am not part of some GDA Mafioso....my posts support this.  I’m just enjoying the process of exposing the half truths of your BS arguements (but you’re doing a good job of that for me......thanks little buddy)
> 
> ...


Why did ACL's come up?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Dec 14, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Got it.
> 
> Does Michigan have the same school calender as So Cal? I have a sister that lives on the East Coast and the school calendars don't always match up.


They don’t.


End of the Line said:


> This is like deja vu all over again.  Per one study:
> 
> "The positive association between fatigue and injury risk was in accordance with results from research on elite soccer(15) and rugby(12) players. Accumulated minutes and a lack of rest days did not directly cause injuries, and researchers should examine the causal pathways linking fatigue to injuries, particularly given the variability in the estimated effects of these variables. In their investigation of knee injuries, Goitz et al(13) reported that knee-joint proprioception errors were greater during a state of fatigue and specifically suggested that the mechanism for ACL injuries is more likely to occur in fatigued states."​
> But you should spend more time looking at this, which is a summary article that itself references some other solid studies, including one by MIT. https://fitforfutbol.com/2016/02/the-effect-of-travel-minutes-played-game-density-and-sleep-on-performance-injury-likelihood/  Below is an excerpt, since you apparently lacked time to read since the last time I posted it in this forum:
> ...


And conversely you’ve provided information that has supported mine......you’re literally arguing against yourself now.   #tailspin <zing>


----------



## MarkM (Dec 14, 2018)

End of the Line said:


> This is like deja vu all over again.  Per one study:
> 
> "The positive association between fatigue and injury risk was in accordance with results from research on elite soccer(15) and rugby(12) players. Accumulated minutes and a lack of rest days did not directly cause injuries, and researchers should examine the causal pathways linking fatigue to injuries, particularly given the variability in the estimated effects of these variables. In their investigation of knee injuries, Goitz et al(13) reported that knee-joint proprioception errors were greater during a state of fatigue and specifically suggested that the mechanism for ACL injuries is more likely to occur in fatigued states."​
> But you should spend more time looking at this, which is a summary article that itself references some other solid studies, including one by MIT. https://fitforfutbol.com/2016/02/the-effect-of-travel-minutes-played-game-density-and-sleep-on-performance-injury-likelihood/  Below is an excerpt, since you apparently lacked time to read since the last time I posted it in this forum:
> ...


Did you really just offer a single basketball study about back to back games as medical consensus that playing 75 minutes over three straight days of soccer games is healthier than playing 90 minutes over three games in four days?  Medical consensus and one study?  Those are the same?  Come on joker.  You ain't fooling anyone.  Everyone knows that fatigue leads to increased injury risk.  I called you out about your "medical consensus" claim regarding playing three games over three straight days for 75 minutes vs. 90 minutes over four days.  Nothing.  Nada.  Under your logic (or lack thereof), playing 89 minutes over three straight days is healthier than playing three, 90 minute games over four days.  Of course, we know that makes no sense and is categorically untrue.  So I want the medical consensus that shows 75 minutes over three straight days is healthier.  Heck, I'll even settle for a single study on point.  I'll be waiting anxiously.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 14, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> They don’t.


I thought so..


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Dec 14, 2018)

MarkM said:


> Did you really just offer a single basketball study about back to back games as medical consensus that playing 75 minutes over three straight days of soccer games is healthier than playing 90 minutes over three games in four days?  Medical consensus and one study?  Those are the same?  Come on joker.  You ain't fooling anyone.  Everyone knows that fatigue leads to increased injury risk.  I called you out about your "medical consensus" claim regarding playing three games over three straight days for 75 minutes vs. 90 minutes over four days.  Nothing.  Nada.  Under your logic (or lack thereof), playing 89 minutes over three straight days is healthier than playing three, 90 minute games over four days.  Of course, we know that makes no sense and is categorically untrue.  So I want the medical consensus that shows 75 minutes over three straight days is healthier.  Heck, I'll even settle for a single study on point.  I'll be waiting anxiously.


Dude, didn’t we agree to not respond.


----------



## MarkM (Dec 14, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Dude, didn’t we agree to not respond.


My fault.  I'm done.


----------



## Simisoccerfan (Dec 14, 2018)

The increasing level of injury observed for youth players towards the end of the season supports the concerns expressed by the Football Association27 over the total number of games in which young players compete over the course of a season. It is expected therefore that the establishment of the football academies for young players at professional clubs, together with the standards set by the Football Association relating to the maximum number of matches played by youth players in a season, will go a long way towards addressing this issue. 

This is one of the main conclusions from the study mentioned by End. 

DA plays only about 30 to 35 games in a season.   Some DA teams play 2-4 more games in outside tournaments.

ECNL plays about 25-30 games in a season.  Plus alot more outside tournaments.  Plus 20 to 25 HS games.

All other leagues play about 12 games in season.  Maybe 18 to 35 outside games at tournaments.  Plus 20 to 25 HS games.

So many non DA players play twice as many games as DA players.

See I can agree with this conclusion from the study you actually presented.


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## timbuck (Dec 14, 2018)

How does training load impact that study?
Less games but more training.  Or more games but less training.  Which is better/worse?


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## Simisoccerfan (Dec 14, 2018)

Well study showed a lot more injuries in games then training.  The another main conclusion centered around being fit, maintaining fitness, and pre and post game warm ups and cool downs.


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 14, 2018)

timbuck said:


> How does training load impact that study?
> Less games but more training.  Or more games but less training.  Which is better/worse?


That really depends on the type of training they are getting, how the coach manages the work load week to week. I don’t mean to sound redundant but it really does depend on the coach.  The good ones will navigate the season, change the level of intensity at practices throughout the season....no matter what league.


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## timbuck (Dec 14, 2018)

Coaches really do need to be versed in periodization.  
I don’t have specifics for soccer-  but I’m going to try and dig something up. 
Coming back from a 3 week break and then playing a 4 game tournament is not a great idea.


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## Josep (Dec 14, 2018)

Tournaments are really the worst at any level.


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## End of the Line (Dec 16, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> The increasing level of injury observed for youth players towards the end of the season supports the concerns expressed by the Football Association27 over the total number of games in which young players compete over the course of a season. It is expected therefore that the establishment of the football academies for young players at professional clubs, together with the standards set by the Football Association relating to the maximum number of matches played by youth players in a season, will go a long way towards addressing this issue.
> 
> This is one of the main conclusions from the study mentioned by End.
> 
> ...


Thank you for finally putting in some thought rather than reflexively being your usual self.  You know what, I agree with you that playing too many games is likely to increase the injury risk, especially if you repeatedly play full HS games.  In fact, I'll even add that the HS rule of having OT for non-playoff games is ludicrous.  See, it isn't so hard to agree with the obvious.  I think we can also agree that one way to reduce the risk of injury is to ensure that kids are in better shape physically and mentally.  As some point, the benefit of increased training (including strength training and increasing stamina) no longer becomes a benefit and instead becomes an increased injury risk, and that perfect mix varies by kid in a way that you'll never be able to gauge exactly where that line must be drawn.  But studies very clearly show that it should be drawn at forcing girls to play 90 minutes without sufficient rest.

But that still doesn't change the fact that 6 kids per game being forced to play 90 minutes has probably the most significant direct impact on the increased risk of a catastrophic knee injury than anything else, and there is no legitimate reason to have it in the first place.  It also doesn't change the fact that kids can play a lot more games than GDA allows, so long as they properly manage it, but too many parents seem to think that this is something that is outside their scope of responsibility or even concern. 

Where you and others go wrong, sir, is that you believe that there are two options that must be accepted as they are.  You seem to think there is either GDA in its current format or there is non-GDA in its current format when, in fact, all of them can be improved.  When kids decide to play HS, it is not because they think it will reduce the risk of knee injury.  To the extent is a consideration at all, it is because they think HS and the higher injury risk  still makes it a better option for them despite the risk to their knees.  Which tells you a lot about how bad the GDA platform is and why it's failing.


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## End of the Line (Dec 16, 2018)

MarkM said:


> Did you really just offer a single basketball study about back to back games as medical consensus that playing 75 minutes over three straight days of soccer games is healthier than playing 90 minutes over three games in four days?  Medical consensus and one study?  Those are the same?  Come on joker.  You ain't fooling anyone.  Everyone knows that fatigue leads to increased injury risk.  I called you out about your "medical consensus" claim regarding playing three games over three straight days for 75 minutes vs. 90 minutes over four days.  Nothing.  Nada.  Under your logic (or lack thereof), playing 89 minutes over three straight days is healthier than playing three, 90 minute games over four days.  Of course, we know that makes no sense and is categorically untrue.  So I want the medical consensus that shows 75 minutes over three straight days is healthier.  Heck, I'll even settle for a single study on point.  I'll be waiting anxiously.


Actually no.  The link relates specifically to soccer, and also cites other studies that relate specifically to soccer, as well as other sports including basketball.  The first article I quoted is also soccer specific.

The studies I cited very clearly show that minutes played in a game substantially increases the injury risk in soccer players, whereas game density does not appear to have an impact on younger players.  With respect to 75 minutes vs. 90 minutes specifically, I need to dumb things down for people by providing examples because the studies use technical terms like "game density" and utilize some pretty sophisticated analysis and graphs that are too much for people like yourself.  In the end, I have identified a number of studies that support what I am saying, but you just don't care to read them.  I am also still the only person to provide any medical studies at all, and all of them definitively state that a kid playing 90 minutes is stupid.  As I said earlier (which you ignored), reasonable minds may differ with respect to playing 3 days in a row at 75 minutes (ECNL) vs. 2 in a row at 90 (GDA), but the studies I've cited suggest I'm right and you haven't shown anything to the contrary.  You've just said "nuh uh" and misrepresented what is in the studies, which is fine because you aren't my audience.  Anyone with a real interest will read the what I have posted and realize that I am providing medical information from MIT and PhDs, and you're MarkM.  Unlike you, I'm not telling anyone to rely on what I am saying.  You're the only one doing that.


----------



## End of the Line (Dec 16, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> They don’t.
> 
> And conversely you’ve provided information that has supported mine......you’re literally arguing against yourself now.   #tailspin <zing>


The interesting thing here is that you believe that these clubs left because of HS (and maybe cost), not the annoyance of having to play before finals.   But wanting to play HS and not wanting to deal with the headache of dealing with being gone before finals week (at significant cost) are not mutually exclusive.  All of the clubs that left did so because GDA hurt the bottom line and was risking running off many of consumers and revenue.  And when many consumers were saying HS and another comp platform were a better option, why was that?  In the end, it is because HS is more fun, and one of the things that makes it a better choice for them is that they don't need to deal with any of the headaches of GDA.

Why do you think USSF holds the winter showcase when it does?  Not because it is the ideal time to hold it, that is for sure.  USSF holds it when it does because it wants to put it as far into HS soccer season as possible as a deterrent to losing kids to HS.  The only carrot GDA has is that mid-level players (or younger kids) get access to college coaches at its showcases.  I thinks it can force them to give up HS because they (probably rightfully) believe it is the better option.  But GDA's carrot doesn't have any weight for kids who've either already committed, alphas that don't need GDA to get recruited, or kids who don't have a 4.8 gpa or who are more committed to academics than a soccer tournament in Florida.


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 16, 2018)

I can’t argue with crazy......you win


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## End of the Line (Dec 16, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> I take it your not continuing with your ACL argument because it actually isn’t the issue with DA as much as Elite Female atheletes and how COACHES can tend to exploit them (playing time)?  Should we pull up the studies that show the longer you Drive in a day increases your risk of getting into a car accident to help you see the hole in your argument?  ACL’s are no laughing matter, I’ve torn mine 3 times and guess what, I wasn’t playing DA (gasp), the sub rules didn’t exist, so it can happen regardless.


Happy to oblige....

Coaches exploiting kids by playing too much is certainly a problem, and USSF should focus more effort on dealing with this serious issue instead of creating a platform that requires coaches to exploit them.

Your argument about studies showing that driving longer in a day increases your risk of getting into a car accident is addressed and refuted for its faulty logic in the article I posted earlier, so I refer you to that.  But I can also add that you are wrong about that too.  If you review commercial driving studies, you'll see that driving a lot of consecutive hours leads to a significant increase in the likelihood of an accident due to mental fatigue.  Here's one.  https://www.researchgate.net/publication/280569039_The_Impact_of_Driving_Non-Driving_Work_and_Rest_Breaks_on_Driving_Performance_in_Commercial_Motor_Vehicle_Operations/download.  It shows that there isn't a meaningful increased risk of an accident at first, just like in a soccer game, but once you past a certain point (the 10th hour of driving or around the 40th consecutive minute of soccer), you start to break down mentally and mental fatigue then because a leading  cause for both motor vehicle accidents and soccer injuries.  What is most fascinating, though, is that the study shows that taking breaks during the driving can be a great way to reduce the risk of an accident, just like a break during a soccer game is a great way to reduce the risk of injury.

As for your ACL tears, you are correct that they're no laughing matter, which is why I'm actually providing people with medical studies instead of suggesting to people that it's ok for their kids to play 90 minute games because they tore their ACL some other way.  That said, your argument is no different than claiming that no one has an increased risk of getting STDs from hookers because you got yours from your girlfriend and not the hooker. 

I would be interested in your explanation about how you incurred an ACL injury if you think it is helpful for others.  Given that you've had three, however, I suspect you may be the last person anyone should listen to in a discussion about how to avoid ACL injuries.


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## Soccer43 (Dec 16, 2018)

Since we are talking about ACL injury and fatigue here are a few more interesting articles for those are interested and willing to put in the effort to read the scientific research and acquire some knowledge .....

https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=00005768-200908000-00017

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/43/13/1049
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090724102915.htm
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090724102915.htm


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## Surfref (Dec 16, 2018)

MarkM said:


> Did you really just offer a single basketball study about back to back games as medical consensus that playing 75 minutes over three straight days of soccer games is healthier than playing 90 minutes over three games in four days?  Medical consensus and one study?  Those are the same?  Come on joker.  You ain't fooling anyone.  Everyone knows that fatigue leads to increased injury risk.  I called you out about your "medical consensus" claim regarding playing three games over three straight days for 75 minutes vs. 90 minutes over four days.  Nothing.  Nada.  Under your logic (or lack thereof), playing 89 minutes over three straight days is healthier than playing three, 90 minute games over four days.  Of course, we know that makes no sense and is categorically untrue.  So I want the medical consensus that shows 75 minutes over three straight days is healthier.  Heck, I'll even settle for a single study on point.  I'll be waiting anxiously.


What I think is really funny is that GDA players/teams are supposed to be “the elite players” and supposedly in top physical shape, but are limited to playing one game a day.  While, the SCDSL, CSL and Presidio/SDDA teams are looked on as being low level and not in great physical shape, especially Silver/Bronze/Tier 2/3, and they routinely play 2-3 games a day during tournaments.  It seems to me that the GDA teams should be the ones playing multiple games in a day and the other “low level” teams only playing one game.  Just an observation.


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## Soccerfan2 (Dec 16, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> I can’t argue with crazy......you win


 Ha! I was wondering how long it would take you. I give you much credit for your endurance!


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 16, 2018)

Surfref said:


> What I think is really funny is that GDA players/teams are supposed to be “the elite players” and supposedly in top physical shape, but are limited to playing one game a day.  While, the SCDSL, CSL and Presidio/SDDA teams are looked on as being low level and not in great physical shape, especially Silver/Bronze/Tier 2/3, and they routinely play 2-3 games a day during tournaments.  It seems to me that the GDA teams should be the ones playing multiple games in a day and the other “low level” teams only playing one game.  Just an observation.


How many pro players or college players play more than one game a day?  Are they not Elite Athletes?

Honestly....does having the ability to, but not playing 2 games in a day somehow exclude you from being an elite athelete?


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## Kicker4Life (Dec 16, 2018)

Soccerfan2 said:


> Ha! I was wondering how long it would take you. I give you much credit for your endurance!


Yah....I thought there was hope for a minute there.


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## Surfref (Dec 17, 2018)

Kicker4Life said:


> How many pro players or college players play more than one game a day?  Are they not Elite Athletes?
> 
> Honestly....does having the ability to, but not playing 2 games in a day somehow exclude you from being an elite athelete?


What I should have ended with was that I don't think it is healthy for any players to be playing multiple games in a day or 4-6 games over a weekend.


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## Multi Sport (Dec 18, 2018)

Fact said:


> Not to add fuel for END, but when my ds was traveling not all of his teachers were understanding and the school administration would not take a stand on the issue. He had to make sacrifices and change plans a few times not to miss labs and tests he was not going to be allowed to make up. He also took a few zeros.  Unfortunately some teachers have a chip on their shoulder, don't like sports or other extracurricular activities and are not willing to do what is best for the students, even their top students.


There are always teachers who don't care what your reason is. My DD had one in HS and did not allow her or two other teammates take a test they missed for.. HS soccer. I made a call and she was allowed to make up the test. The teachers excuse was that she is bipolar and was having a rough day. 

But then you have the flip side. My kid sister ended up having the same Algebra 2 teacher that I did in HS, Mrs. Smith. I struggled big time to get a B . My sister? Well I guess the teacher must have remembered me so she told my sister that as long as she does all the homework that she would give her a C. The difference between my sister and I (besides 17 years) was she was a standout athlete who had led the school to two CIF Championships and was inline to get a D1 scholarship. Me.. I played Right Field and batted ninth.

 Mrs. Smith also made my sister promise to never take Math again.


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## Fact (Dec 18, 2018)

Kicknit22 said:


> Hopefully, she has a blast.  Now, see if  you can stay clear of the DA train, so she won’t have to give it up. Enjoy the moments, they fly by.


Not sure why everyone still has the misconception that DA players cannot play  high school soccer. It was done quiet frequently when my ds was playing, even at public schools.  Currently, I am hearing from friends that coach girls at private high schools that they have DA players and no they are not financially needy and are also still playing DA.


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## MWN (Dec 18, 2018)

Fact said:


> Not sure why everyone still has the misconception that DA players cannot play  high school soccer. It was done quiet frequently when my ds was playing, even at public schools.  Currently, I am hearing from friends that coach girls at private high schools that they have DA players and no they are not financially needy and are also still playing DA.


There are exceptions for private schools.  http://www.ussoccerda.com/faq

*Can Academy clubs participate in non-Academy competitions?*
_
To maintain a focus on training, Academy teams do not play in any other leagues, tournaments, State Cup competitions, ODP or All-Star events without written permission from the U.S. Soccer Development Academy staff. Full-time Academy players can only participate on their designated Academy team, with only one exception: National Team duty. Development Academy players for all teams must choose to participate in the Academy full-time and forgo playing for his high school team._


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## Kicknit22 (Dec 19, 2018)

Fact said:


> Not sure why everyone still has the misconception that DA players cannot play  high school soccer. It was done quiet frequently when my ds was playing, even at public schools.  Currently, I am hearing from friends that coach girls at private high schools that they have DA players and no they are not financially needy and are also still playing DA.


It’s not a misconception.  Yes, there are quite a few kids that are ditching out on DA come HS season, at the older/oldest age group.  I suspect that, unless changes are made, this will continue to happen, year after year. Most girls will not give up thier senior year, whether DA exposure has helped them land their future school or not.  JMO


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## Sheriff Joe (Dec 19, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> The teachers excuse was that she is bipolar and was having a rough day.


That would explain many posters in these here parts.


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## Sheriff Joe (Dec 19, 2018)

For me, watching my daughter play high school is against non club kids makes you appreciate real training.


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## Zdrone (Dec 19, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> For me, watching my daughter play high school is against non club kids makes you appreciate real training.


I wish it were only “against.”  We have a mixed bag (JV) of maybe 4-5 kids that are flight 1/silver elite club players, 8. or so low to mid flight 2 and 7-8 flight 3/Rec players.  There is talent but you can see the higher level players trying to pass the ball where the mid to lower level will either boot it or try to dribble through 3 defenders.

I love that my kid is playing high school soccer.  Seems to re-energize a love of the game but my kid is missing the club team skill however.  Some of the best comments on the way home are about bad passing and inability to shoot.  At least it can be laughed off so far.


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## Sheriff Joe (Dec 19, 2018)

Zdrone said:


> I wish it were only “against.”  We have a mixed bag (JV) of maybe 4-5 kids that are flight 1/silver elite club players, 8. or so low to mid flight 2 and 7-8 flight 3/Rec players.  There is talent but you can see the higher level players trying to pass the ball where the mid to lower level will either boot it or try to dribble through 3 defenders.
> 
> I love that my kid is playing high school soccer.  Seems to re-energize a love of the game but my kid is missing the club team skill however.  Some of the best comments on the way home are about bad passing and inability to shoot.  At least it can be laughed off so far.


Funny, after complaining about club for months the first week of high school she said she misses club.


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## Soccer43 (Dec 19, 2018)

Fact said:


> Not sure why everyone still has the misconception that DA players cannot play  high school soccer. It was done quiet frequently when my ds was playing, even at public schools.  Currently, I am hearing from friends that coach girls at private high schools that they have DA players and no they are not financially needy and are also still playing DA.


This policy seems to vary from club to club and coach to coach.  There are definitely some clubs that have not allowed DA players to play high school


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## JCM (Dec 19, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> This policy seems to vary from club to club and coach to coach.  There are definitely some clubs that have not allowed DA players to play high school


 The rule is by US Soccer. Once you play a match for a high school team you are ineligible for DA the rest of the year unless you are a part time player.  My HS team has already played against 4 DA players, one of which was in FL for the showcase.  With the others no idea if they are planning to go back to DA after the HS season, but it's not like we are going to tell on them so I would bet for most clubs it's a don't ask don't tell policy.


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## Soccer43 (Dec 19, 2018)

I think that rule is new this year.  I believe last year it was an option up to the club/coach


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## Fact (Dec 19, 2018)

MWN said:


> There are exceptions for private schools.  http://www.ussoccerda.com/faq
> 
> *Can Academy clubs participate in non-Academy competitions?*
> _
> To maintain a focus on training, Academy teams do not play in any other leagues, tournaments, State Cup competitions, ODP or All-Star events without written permission from the U.S. Soccer Development Academy staff. Full-time Academy players can only participate on their designated Academy team, with only one exception: National Team duty. Development Academy players for all teams must choose to participate in the Academy full-time and forgo playing for his high school team._


None of these exceptions apply.


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## Fact (Dec 19, 2018)

Kicknit22 said:


> It’s not a misconception.  Yes, there are quite a few kids that are ditching out on DA come HS season, at the older/oldest age group.  I suspect that, unless changes are made, this will continue to happen, year after year. Most girls will not give up thier senior year, whether DA exposure has helped them land their future school or not.  JMO


Not ditching DA. Played in Florida and plan to play DA in January.  I guess it is a don’t ask don’t tell policy. At least it keeps the quality of high school up a little better. I just feel sorry for the families/clubs that are following the rules.


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## Fact (Dec 19, 2018)

Soccer43 said:


> I think that rule is new this year.  I believe last year it was an option up to the club/coach


Last year it was a little different because it was the first year of DA for girls. Girls that had previously played high school were grandfathered in by US Soccer if their club allowed them to play.


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## MWN (Dec 19, 2018)

Fact said:


> None of these exceptions apply.


I admit the FAQ does not fully set forth the rule.  The rule is here: https://ussoccer.box.com/s/wk8nm2mwq34yvbbu548pvwywmdkklzju.  See, Article III, Section F, Paragraph 4 discussing the procedure for Academy players playing for HS teams.  The answer is basically, the player must prove to US Soccer that playing HS Soccer is a fundamental part of their enrollment criteria at the private school.  

_4. Academy Players currently registered with an DA Club have committed to forgo participating in both the Academy and high school or middle school soccer._
_a) Players who participate in high/middle school soccer are ineligible to participate in Academy practice and competition during that same season. 
b) Only players who have been granted a waiver by the League Office will be allowed to remain on their clubs Academy roster during the high school soccer season (waivers are not available for middle school). This waiver must be received by DA office before September 1, 2018, to be considered for the roster exemption. The waiver eligibility guidelines are as follows:_
_(1) Players who receive consideration or financial aid to attend a private high school based on their participation with the soccer team are eligible 
(2) Although clubs are not limited to a specific number of waivers, the number is naturally self-limiting to field a full team throughout the Academy season.
(3) Players registered with a Development DA Club will not be allowed to reenter the program during the same season after participating in the high school season with their current or a different DA Club._​_c) The waiver must include the following points:_
_(1) Addressed to Academy Program from the Principal, Head Master or similar position
(2) Player name and high school_
_(3) States the player is expected to participate in high school soccer as part of their enrollment at this school and subsidized education_
_(4) States the term, semester and/or dates in which the player will be participating in high school soccer
(5) Signed and dated
(6) Sent to Academy Office for approval prior to the start of the high school season_​


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## espola (Dec 19, 2018)

MWN said:


> I admit the FAQ does not fully set forth the rule.  The rule is here: https://ussoccer.box.com/s/wk8nm2mwq34yvbbu548pvwywmdkklzju.  See, Article III, Section F, Paragraph 4 discussing the procedure for Academy players playing for HS teams.  The answer is basically, the player must prove to US Soccer that playing HS Soccer is a fundamental part of their enrollment criteria at the private school.
> 
> _4. Academy Players currently registered with an DA Club have committed to forgo participating in both the Academy and high school or middle school soccer._
> _a) Players who participate in high/middle school soccer are ineligible to participate in Academy practice and competition during that same season.
> ...


The training may be unproven, but they certainly have their bureaucratic BS figured out.


----------



## TangoCity (Dec 19, 2018)

Surfref said:


> What I think is really funny is that GDA players/teams are supposed to be “the elite players” and supposedly in top physical shape, but are limited to playing one game a day.  While, the SCDSL, CSL and Presidio/SDDA teams are looked on as being low level and not in great physical shape, especially Silver/Bronze/Tier 2/3, and they routinely play 2-3 games a day during tournaments.  It seems to me that the GDA teams should be the ones playing multiple games in a day and the other “low level” teams only playing one game.  Just an observation.


Yes.  It would be a great way for the bench players to get more playing time on their often crowded rosters and limited substitution rules.


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## End of the Line (Dec 19, 2018)

MWN said:


> I admit the FAQ does not fully set forth the rule.  The rule is here: https://ussoccer.box.com/s/wk8nm2mwq34yvbbu548pvwywmdkklzju.  See, Article III, Section F, Paragraph 4 discussing the procedure for Academy players playing for HS teams.  The answer is basically, the player must prove to US Soccer that playing HS Soccer is a fundamental part of their enrollment criteria at the private school.
> 
> _4. Academy Players currently registered with an DA Club have committed to forgo participating in both the Academy and high school or middle school soccer._
> _a) Players who participate in high/middle school soccer are ineligible to participate in Academy practice and competition during that same season.
> ...


I'd like to know how USSF explains that it isn't fraud to induce players to participate in the GDA by promising that any kid in HS in  2017-18 would be able to play HS throughout the rest of their HS career without affecting their GDA status, only t0 change that rule after people have relied on it to change clubs and leagues?  The DA's own website still shows USSF made this promise when it formed GDA.

That's one way to beat your competitor.  Steal its customers by lying to them about your product or service.


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## watfly (Dec 19, 2018)

Is girls high school soccer generally more attractive soccer than boys high school? This is a very small sample size, but I went to the local high school boys game, and it was major kickball from both teams, not once was it played out the back. I'm not sure there ever was more than 3 consecutive passes connected. (it should be noted that the HS has historically been a very good soccer school, with a few CIF championships with their current coach, although they were some time ago).  The following day I went to a HS girls game and the quality of the soccer by both teams was significantly better...crisp, multiple connected passes, few goalie punts, buildup etc.

My son is a few years away from having to potentially choose DA or HS and a lot can happen between now and then so I'm not worried about it.  However, if he was having to make the decision now I'd probably encourage him to stay in DA.


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## Fact (Dec 19, 2018)

MWN said:


> I admit the FAQ does not fully set forth the rule.  The rule is here: https://ussoccer.box.com/s/wk8nm2mwq34yvbbu548pvwywmdkklzju.  See, Article III, Section F, Paragraph 4 discussing the procedure for Academy players playing for HS teams.  The answer is basically, the player must prove to US Soccer that playing HS Soccer is a fundamental part of their enrollment criteria at the private school.
> 
> _4. Academy Players currently registered with an DA Club have committed to forgo participating in both the Academy and high school or middle school soccer._
> _a) Players who participate in high/middle school soccer are ineligible to participate in Academy practice and competition during that same season.
> ...


Yes I know the rule well. When my ds played, many lower socioeconomic  Hispanic boys were able to attend private schools based upon their soccer ability. I recall this was particularly used in South OC a lot.

However, this is not the case I am seeing for the  girls.  Privileged straight A students that previously attended private or highly rated public schools with professional parents are not what the rule was intended to help.  Shame on the schools and families.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 19, 2018)

Fact said:


> Yes I know the rule well. When my ds played, many lower socioeconomic  Hispanic boys were able to attend private schools based upon their soccer ability. I recall this was particularly used in South OC a lot.
> 
> However, this is not the case I am seeing for the  girls.  Privileged straight A students that previously attended private or highly rated public schools with professional parents are not what the rule was intended to help.  Shame on the schools and families.


What does straight A's have to do with this? For that matter what does White have to do with it?


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> What does straight A's have to do with this? For that matter what does White have to do with it?


Straight A students are able to get into these private schools based upon their academic achievements and thus soccer is NOT a defermining factor or “consideration” as defined in (1) off why they got into the private school. So they do not meet the waiver requirements.

Now please show me where I used the word “white.” Don’t make this abiut race. I only mentioned Hispanic because I was familiar with a large number of boys that met the rule.


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> Straight A students are able to get into these private schools based upon their academic achievements and thus soccer is NOT a defermining factor or “consideration” as defined in (1) off why they got into the private school. So they do not meet the waiver requirements.
> 
> Now please show me where I used the word “white.” Don’t make this abiut race. I only mentioned Hispanic because I was familiar with a large number of boys that met the rule.


Loser joe is long established here as a racist poster.  He just can't help himself.


----------



## NickName (Dec 20, 2018)

watfly said:


> Is girls high school soccer generally more attractive soccer than boys high school?


Last week I watched a boys JV team scrimmage a girls varsity and some things stuck in my head:
Girls passed more accurately 
Girls communicated on the field and from the sidelines
Girls played unselfishly 
Girls collectively showed more skill
Boys won handily 

Using superior passing and skill (in my opinion) the girls would move up the field but the boys speed and aggressiveness countered them in the final third every time.
The first half the boys were playing kickball and finally settled down the second half to score a few times.  Granted the boys were trying out a new formation and people were out of their normal positions which may have lead to the first half mess.

The girls coach was yelling at the boys every time they would run down the field with/at the ball; “DON’T TOUCH MY PLAYER!”  It was pretty amusing.
Ironically I’ve always felt that girls were the more aggressive when younger.  They wouldn’t hesitate to run into a player (boy or girl).  Perhaps its just the size difference now or the coach held them in check for this game.

My answer to your question: Yes, the girls play a much more attractive game.  It would have been more fun to watch the girls play another girls team.  The communication, style, width of the field was excellent.  
The boys play a much more aggressive game where they feel the whole time they need to get the ball up the field as quickly as possible, or at least out of their back third.


----------



## coachsamy (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> For that matter what does White have to do with it?


Watch a Cathedral or Bishops game...


----------



## JCM (Dec 20, 2018)

watfly said:


> Is girls high school soccer generally more attractive soccer than boys high school? This is a very small sample size, but I went to the local high school boys game, and it was major kickball from both teams, not once was it played out the back. I'm not sure there ever was more than 3 consecutive passes connected. (it should be noted that the HS has historically been a very good soccer school, with a few CIF championships with their current coach, although they were some time ago).  The following day I went to a HS girls game and the quality of the soccer by both teams was significantly better...crisp, multiple connected passes, few goalie punts, buildup etc.
> 
> My son is a few years away from having to potentially choose DA or HS and a lot can happen between now and then so I'm not worried about it.  However, if he was having to make the decision now I'd probably encourage him to stay in DA.


I can tell you as a boys coach, we are not trying to develop our players other than developing them as a young men.  So while I have always coached out of the back with club, we want to win and feel that will happen with a direct, high press style.  Sometimes it looks like kick ball because we aren't great at passing over two levels of defenders to our 9's.  Other times it looks like kick ball because a back is playing a long ball to an open space and the midfielder who is supposed to shoot the gap hasn't done it. Other times it looks like kick ball because they panic under pressure. But we've won all our games with very young and average talent and that's the bottom line at this level.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> Straight A students are able to get into these private schools based upon their academic achievements and thus soccer is NOT a defermining factor or “consideration” as defined in (1) off why they got into the private school. So they do not meet the waiver requirements.
> 
> Now please show me where I used the word “white.” Don’t make this abiut race. I only mentioned Hispanic because I was familiar with a large number of boys that met the rule.


Nice edit job...


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> Watch a Cathedral or Bishops game...


Why?


----------



## coachsamy (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Why?


You will see the correlation between "white" and prestigious private schools that people are quick to make assumptions.


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> You will see the correlation between "white" and prestigious private schools that people are quick to make assumptions.


He will deny it.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> Loser joe is long established here as a racist poster.  He just can't help himself.


Why are you bringing me into this conversation?
You limp old prick.


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Why are you bringing me into this conversation?
> You limp old prick.


You white-power guys all look the same to me.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> You white-power guys all look the same to me.


Have you ever met multi?


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> Watch a Cathedral or Bishops game...


It is still legal to be white is the USA, isn't it?


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> You will see the correlation between "white" and prestigious private schools that people are quick to make assumptions.


That's old news. Went to St. John Bosco my Freshman year... color of skin has nothing to do with financial situation of the family. Facts original post not only alluded to straight As but white privileged girls.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Have you ever met multi?


E is delusional.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Dec 20, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Have you ever met multi?


That guy looks like Dave Chappelle.


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Nice edit job...


I don’t have the ability to edit moron! Never ever used the word “white.”


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> I don’t have the ability to edit moron! Never ever used the word “white.”


I learned some time ago that when someone makes a post like you did that a screenshot comes in handy. 

And maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe that all posters have the ability to edit...


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> That's old news. Went to St. John Bosco my Freshman year... color of skin has nothing to do with financial situation of the family. Facts original post not only alluded to straight As but white privileged girls.


Was NEVER elluding to privilege=white.  If you want to be a bigot then in Carmel Valkey where Cathedral is located, please include Asians in your discussion of privilege. But I would rather discuss the original issue of why some DA players were allowed waivers to play in high school.  From my discussion with coaches, the girl DA players playing high school while also still on the DA are abusing the system.  Soccer was not a contributing factor of why they are at a private school, they got in due to being high achieving (straight A) students whose family is well off and does not need a scholarship.  The families and private schools that are not willing to lie are at a disadvantage, not to mention all the kiddos that attend public schools where no waivers are granted.  They should just do away with the rule and let the clubs decide whether their players can play high school.


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> I learned some time ago that when someone makes a post like you did that a screenshot comes in handy.
> 
> And maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe that all posters have the ability to edit...


Great then post your screenshot.....have I told you that I HATE liars with their own agenda.


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> And maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe that all posters have the ability to edit...


I am too cheap to pay for the ability to edit so do you want to infer my religious preference?  

I am waiting for the screen shot ..........
LIAR!


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> E is delusional.


E is way worse than that.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2018)

LASTMAN14 said:


> That guy looks like Dave Chappelle.


I think he is multi's twin brother.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> I am too cheap to pay for the ability to edit so do you want to infer my religious preference?
> 
> I am waiting for the screen shot ..........
> LIAR!


Maybe I was wrong about editing but I don't think you have to pay...


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Maybe I was wrong about editing but I don't think you have to pay...


Still waiting for your screenshot.......liar!

I don’t appreciate being lied too, lied about and hate Bigots like you that always try to bring the race card into every discussion.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> Still waiting for your screenshot.......liar!
> 
> I don’t appreciate being lied too, lied about and hate Bigots like you that always try to bring the race card into every discussion.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> Still waiting for your screenshot.......liar!
> 
> I don’t appreciate being lied too, lied about and hate Bigots like you that always try to bring the race card into every discussion.


I was trying to be nice...


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> View attachment 3693


LIAR!  This is NOT my post.  Post MY post! You doctored it when you copied it.  I cannot edit my original and I not stupid enough to not realize what you did when you copied it.  Watch this ...


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> I was trying to be nice..  but i can not help my douchbag self.  I am a lying loser that doctors other person’s posts to bring in the race card


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> Still waiting for your screenshot.......liar!
> 
> I don’t appreciate being lied too, lied about and hate Bigots like you that always try to bring the race card into every discussion.


You're the one who brought race intp the discussion . I'm the one who asked you why. Not my problem...


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Wow Multi I think I also saw several of your posts bashing your DD’s coach, teammates and club as well as using racial slurs but I am trying to be nice.....


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Nice try but I took a screenshot.


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Nice try but I took a screenshot.


So then post the screenshot of MY post!


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> Wow Multi I think I also saw several of your posts bashing your DD’s coach, teammates and club as well as using racial slurs but I am trying to be nice.....


Keep trying.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> Wow Multi I think I also saw several of your posts bashing your DD’s coach, teammates and club as well as using racial slurs but I am trying to be nice.....


Racial slurs.. hmmmm. What ethnic grpup was I slurring. Im interested to hear this. And my DDs coach, club and teammates? Sure, if you say so Factless.


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Keep trying to change me but it cannot be done because I am just a pathetic lying loser with an agenda that is full of racial slurs.


Still waiting for your screenshot of my post.  Post it or STFU so we can get back to soccer!


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> Still waiting for your screenshot of my post.  Post it or STFU so we can get back to soccer!


It was posted. The fact that it didn't meet your guidelines is once again not my problem. #factless


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> Still waiting for your screenshot of my post.  Post it or STFU so we can get back to soccer!


Still waiting for my post about my DDs team, coach and teammates. Oh, don't forget those racial slurs...


----------



## coachsamy (Dec 20, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> It is still legal to be white is the USA, isn't it?


Do you feel that way???


Multi Sport said:


> That's old news. Went to St. John Bosco my Freshman year... color of skin has nothing to do with financial situation of the family. Facts original post not only alluded to straight As but white privileged girls.


Wealth has nothing to do with grades and race. In fact based on experience I believe that educated people tend to be inclusive (Regardless of political views) and more tolerant in which the other hand the poor... You could get the idea.


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> It was posted. The fact that it didn't meet your guidelines is once again not my problem since I am a complete douche bag#factless


My post was NOT posted. You posted a doctored quote.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> My post was NOT posted. You posted a doctored quote.


Not changed.  Your words not mine . Thats why I asked the question what does white jave to do with it. Not my problem you can't keep up with your own post...

Let me guess. Your gonna mark this post dumb now? You need to be a bit more original then that Factless ...


----------



## MWN (Dec 20, 2018)

@Fact and @Multi Sport,

When a post is "edited" its says "Last Edited" and shows the time and date before the Post Number and Reply link immediately above the rating icons.  If you look at @Fact alleged post there is no "Last Edited" statement, thus, the post appears to have never been edited.  Multisport's screenshot is not of Fact's post but a screen shot of Multisport's reply.  Because the original post in question does not have the "last edited" flag, we have to call BS on Multisport's screenshot.

Now, can we stop with the childish insults and get back on track?

Note, I'm going to edit this post 1 min after posted so you can see the "Last Edited" statement right over there: ----------------------------> -----> 

Edit (I think it waits for the 5 min to time out before appearing).


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> Do you feel that way???


It sure seems like it sometimes.


----------



## MWN (Dec 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> @Fact and @Multi Sport,
> 
> Note, I'm going to edit this post 1 min after posted so you can see the "Last Edited" statement right over there: ----------------------------> ----->
> 
> Edit (I think it waits for the 5 min to time out before appearing).


6min later the "Last Edited" statement is still not there and my power to edit the post is gone.  Let's see if it eventually pops up.  It could be that edits within the 5 min grace period don't show up, which would make my post false.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> @Fact and @Multi Sport,
> 
> When a post is "edited" its says "Last Edited" and shows the time and date before the Post Number and Reply link immediately above the rating icons.  If you look at @Fact alleged post there is no "Last Edited" statement, thus, the post appears to have never been edited.  Multisport's screenshot is not of Fact's post but a screen shot of Multisport's reply.  Because the original post in question does not have the "last edited" flag, we have to call BS on Multisport's screenshot.
> 
> ...


You are correct. 

Unless you ask Dom to delete your post and then you repost.

I had to do that once when I posted a link that had my personal data on it by accident and I was unable to edit it after 5 minutes. Once it was removed I reposted it Facts original post brought race into it. I questioned it. He or she changed it and is now trying a cover up.

Thats fine. Some people are like that..


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> You are correct.
> 
> Unless you ask Dom to delete your post and then you repost.
> 
> ...


Go ahead and ask Dom, you have my permission. I did not ask him to delete anything.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> Do you feel that way???
> 
> Wealth has nothing to do with grades and race. In fact based on experience I believe that educated people tend to be inclusive (Regardless of political views) and more tolerant in which the other hand the poor... You could get the idea.


I do my best to try to deal with people who only see you for what your abilities are. Unfortunately I sometimes don't have a choice and have to deal with people who see skin color first and ability second.. I'm sure it's no different in any profession or school and it can work against any skin color.


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

@MWN thanks for posting the rule, but do you see my concern with private schools and families abusing the rule?  I wonder if posters from the OC are seeing the same issue?

I guess when my ds was playing, the rule allowed underprivileged kids to attend private schools on scholarships. Unfortunately it is now being used for the privileged that know how to get around the rule.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> Go ahead and ask Dom, you have my permission. I did not ask him to delete anything.


Maybe you didn't do it like that. Your post alluded to white girls. Now it's been changed. You obviously had a change of heart about what you posted so at least that's good.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Creative @Fact . Glad you found a new icon to use.


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

I


Multi Sport said:


> Creative @Fact . Glad you found a new icon to use.


 I wish Don had a lying loser icon for you.  Absolutely pathetic that you would doctor my quote in your response....really really sad. You have lost all credibility.


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Creative @Fact . Glad you found a new icon to use.


See ya later lying loser. I am taking an early lunch to buy my privileged white family expensive Xmas gifts.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Not changed.  Your words not mine . Thats why I asked the question what does white jave to do with it. Not my problem you can't keep up with your own post...
> 
> Let me guess. Your gonna mark this post dumb now? You need to be a bit more original then that Factless ...


I've got to go with multi, I have not ever witnessed him lying, ever and I am the de facto expert around here.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> I
> 
> I wish Don had a lying loser icon for you.  Absolutely pathetic that you would doctor my quote in your response....really really sad. You have lost all credibility.


Keep trying Sunshine. Don't you have some post to edit?


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> See ya later lying loser. I am taking an early lunch to buy my privileged white family expensive Xmas gifts.


Good luck shopping...


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> 6min later the "Last Edited" statement is still not there and my power to edit the post is gone.  Let's see if it eventually pops up.  It could be that edits within the 5 min grace period don't show up, which would make my post false.


I edited my last two post and nothing shows as well. Am I wrong to believe that everyone can edit?


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> I've got to go with multi, I have not ever witnessed him lying, ever and I am the de facto expert around here.


Careful Joe.. Fact says I lost all credibility on here. Wow! I never knew I had any!!


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

MWN said:


> @Fact and @Multi Sport,
> 
> When a post is "edited" its says "Last Edited" and shows the time and date before the Post Number and Reply link immediately above the rating icons.  If you look at @Fact alleged post there is no "Last Edited" statement, thus, the post appears to have never been edited.  Multisport's screenshot is not of Fact's post but a screen shot of Multisport's reply.  Because the original post in question does not have the "last edited" flag, we have to call BS on Multisport's screenshot.
> 
> ...


Don't see it.


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> @MWN thanks for posting the rule, but do you see my concern with private schools and families abusing the rule?  I wonder if posters from the OC are seeing the same issue?
> 
> I guess when my ds was playing, the rule allowed underprivileged kids to attend private schools on scholarships. Unfortunately it is now being used for the privileged that know how to get around the rule.


When my sons were playing youth soccer, I was approached by representatives of 2 different private high schools informing me of their schools' excellent academic records, low-cost transportation to/from, and remarked that if the price seemed too high that arrangements could be made.  I suppose it was just by accident that both representatives were soccer coaches.


----------



## coachsamy (Dec 20, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> It sure seems like it sometimes.


When your pseudo forum persona reflects of a well known racist, that calls for attacks. Do I believe that you are? No because I don't know you in a personal level, and if you are a parent in club soccer and chances are that you might not be racist (too much diversity) otherwise you would be a miserable human being.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2018)

coachsamy said:


> When your pseudo forum persona reflects of a well known racist, that calls for attacks. Do I believe that you are? No because I don't know you in a personal level, and if you are a parent in club soccer and chances are that you might not be racist (too much diversity) otherwise you would be a miserable human being.


Sheriff Joe was just trying to keep illegals where they belong, he is no racist and either am I.
My wife is non-white. My kid is tri-racial.
Don't ever believe espola, especially before his afternoon nap.


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> I learned some time ago that when someone makes a post like you did that a screenshot comes in handy.
> 
> And maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe that all posters have the ability to edit...


You're right for 5 minutes, then wrong.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> You're right for 5 minutes, then wrong.


Ok


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Careful Joe.. Fact says I lost all credibility on here. Wow! I never knew I had any!!


Maybe this is all just a misunderstanding.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Dec 20, 2018)

Not to mention, if it was edited after Multi’s reply, it would have shown up in the quoted post on Multi’s reply......

Nevertheless, some girls may have been grandfathered into the HS Amnesty, except for the ‘04’s.  I haven’t had to face the dilemma yet but I can say my DD enjoyed 2 solid weeks of rest and started  her own off season training this week (thankfully as she was getting rambunctious)

PS - I got no issues with either person...let’s steerr back to soccer


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)




----------



## Nefutous (Dec 20, 2018)

It does seem inequitable that some 04 girls are getting to play both high school and DA at the same time while other families we know had to make the decision before the season started. We also know 04 and 03 families that just quit DA to play high school. If finances are not the issue, and in all of the cases I know about, money is not an issue, then that is pretty crummy that people are taking advantage of the system. They should just let the families make the decision what they feel is best for their child.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

As always you're late to the party E. That's my point. The post was edited. But you knew that...


----------



## coachsamy (Dec 20, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Sheriff Joe was just trying to keep illegals where they belong, he is no racist and either am I.
> My wife is non-white. My kid is tri-racial.
> Don't ever believe espola, especially before his afternoon nap.


He was the spearhead of that racial profiling law in Arizona, so imagine your child being pulled over by a cop in Arizona just because it doesn't look white... 

Just food for thought on how an association can create a label (true or not)


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> As always you're late to the party E. That's my point. The post was edited. But you knew that...


I knew what?  The screen shot I posted looks just like what I remember.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Nefutous said:


> It does seem inequitable that some 04 girls are getting to play both high school and DA at the same time while other families we know had to make the decision before the season started. We also know 04 and 03 families that just quit DA to play high school. If finances are not the issue, and in all of the cases I know about, money is not an issue, then that is pretty crummy that people are taking advantage of the system. They should just let the families make the decision what they feel is best for their child.


Just curious. I always thought that CIF had a rule that once you played in a HS game that you could not play outside HS again. If you did your HS team would have to forfeit the games you played in.


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Sheriff Joe was just trying to keep illegals where they belong, he is no racist and either am I.
> My wife is non-white. My kid is tri-racial.
> Don't ever believe espola, especially before his afternoon nap.


Since you have demonstrated and bragged about your willingness to lie here, so why should anyone believe anything you post?


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Just curious. I always thought that CIF had a rule that once you played in a HS game that you could not play outside HS again. If you did your HS team would have to forfeit the games you played in.


Different sections and different years makes for many different rules.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> I knew what?  The screen shot I posted looks just like what I remember.


Like you remember your post about bathroom etiquette? Please E. Your the last person who should be posting about editing, or in your case, deleting a post and then denying it...


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> Different sections and different years makes for many different rules.


So whats the rule in OC ?


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Like you remember your post about bathroom etiquette? Please E. Your the last person who should be posting about editing, or in your case, deleting a post and then denying it...


What is my post about bathroom etiquette?


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> What is my post about bathroom etiquette?


If you want to go there take it to the Off Topic area. Would be great to rehash that all over again with you there. That's what the Off Topic part is for..


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> If you want to go there take it to the Off Topic area. Would be great to rehash that all over again with you there. That's what the Off Topic part is for..


You brought it up here.  Don't leave it hanging like a coward would.  

I  have been posting here for over 10 years.  I'm not upset that I don't remember every post.  

So what is it?  Something you got from 4nos or liar joe?


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> You brought it up here.  Don't leave it hanging like a coward would.
> 
> I  have been posting here for over 10 years.  I'm not upset that I don't remember every post.
> 
> So what is it?  Something you got from 4nos or liar joe?


1. It was on the old forum.

2. Joe and 4nos have nothing to do with it.

3. You know exactly what I'm referring to. If you don't then you truly have a bad memory and have no right to call anyone out since you can't remember.

4. The Off Topic area is there for a reason.

5. This is a good thread. Lets not have Dom move it.


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> 1. It was on the old forum.
> 
> 2. Joe and 4nos have nothing to do with it.
> 
> ...


Coward.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> Since you have demonstrated and bragged about your willingness to lie here, so why should anyone believe anything you post?


I suppose it would be too much for you to show that one to me?


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Sheriff Joe said:


> I suppose it would be too much for you to show that one to me?


To quote a current train of thought --

1.  It was on the old forum.


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> If you want to go there take it to the Off Topic area. Would be great to rehash that all over again with you there. That's what the Off Topic part is for..


You are the one that is bringing this junk up but cannot present any Facts!  Liar!


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> To quote a current train of thought --
> 
> 1.  It was on the old forum.


You can't even keep track of who you're responding to... go back to bed E.


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> To quote a current train of thought --
> 
> 1.  It was on the old forum.


I only lie to you.


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> You can't even keep track of who you're responding to... go back to bed E.


What makes you say that?  I was just quoting a piece of you to joe.  

It appears you are trying to bully me out of this with old-man insults.  Well, fuck you.  I was brought back from the dead twice one day in August, and I resolved once I got back home that I wouldn't be polite any more to bullshitters like you.


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

Nefutous said:


> It does seem inequitable that some 04 girls are getting to play both high school and DA at the same time while other families we know had to make the decision before the season started. We also know 04 and 03 families that just quit DA to play high school. If finances are not the issue, and in all of the cases I know about, money is not an issue, then that is pretty crummy that people are taking advantage of the system. They should just let the families make the decision what they feel is best for their child.


This is what I am talking about...just let everyone play high school, or let their clubs decide.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> Coward.


Careful what you whish for E. You may not like the truth that is revealed about you. 

Like I said... go to Off Topic and we can do this again. Anyone who wants to can go and see what is posted.


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Careful what you whish for E. You may not like the truth that is revealed about you.
> 
> Like I said... go to Off Topic and we can do this again. Anyone who wants to can go and see what is posted.


You brought it up here.  Man up and finish it here.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> What makes you say that?  I was just quoting a piece of you to joe.
> 
> It appears you are trying to bully me out of this with old-man insults.  Well, fuck you.  I was brought back from the dead twice one day in August, and I resolved once I got back home that I wouldn't be polite any more to bullshitters like you.


That's nice. Congrats E. Were all happy that you are still around to share your wisdom..


----------



## Fact (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> What makes you say that?  I was just quoting a piece of you to joe.
> 
> It appears you are trying to bully me out of this with old-man insults.  Well, fuck you.  I was brought back from the dead twice one day in August, and I resolved once I got back home that I wouldn't be polite any more to bullshitters like you.


This is the gospel of my life E. We don’t often agree but I can respect that you have an opinion and don’t manipulate posts by doctoring them  to further your agenda...


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> You brought it up here.  Man up and finish it here.


Lol! Or what? Shows your maturity level. Man up?! Are you gonna want to meet me in a dark alley next?! Nap time for you E...


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Lol! Or what? Shows your maturity level. Man up?! Are you gonna want to meet me in a dark alley next?! Nap time for you E...


Coward.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Fact said:


> This is the gospel of my life E. We don’t often agree but I can respect that you have an opinion and don’t manipulate posts by doctoring them  to further your agenda...


I'll say it. Dumb post. You know, just like E, what you posted. You are both liars and manipulators. Not very good ones at that. E... well he post about little girls underwear and Urinal habits. The dude is seriously sick! But you're keeping good company, you deserve each other...


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> I'll say it. Dumb post. You know, just like E, what you posted. You are both liars and manipulators. Not very good ones at that. E... well he post about little girls underwear and Urinal habits. The dude is seriously sick! But you're keeping good company, you deserve each other...


So you got it from JaP.  He went on the attack against me when I supported posters who were complaining about referees checking out their kids' underwear color.  JaP twisted that into an attack on me, looking for gullible readers.  Looks like he found some.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> So you got it from JaP.  He went on the attack against me when I supported posters who were complaining about referees checking out their kids' underwear color.  JaP twisted that into an attack on me, looking for gullible readers.  Looks like he found some.


Prove it...


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Prove it...


I already proved that you are obnoxious and gullible.


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> I already proved that you are obnoxious and gullible.


Can you see where I edited that?


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> Can you see where I edited that?


Thanks for making my point E...


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Thanks for making my point E...


A couple of pages ago, your point was "And maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe that all posters have the ability to edit..."


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> A couple of pages ago, your point was "And maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe that all posters have the ability to edit..."


Can you get to the point?


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> A couple of pages ago, your point was "And maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe that all posters have the ability to edit..."


Still waiting for your point...maybe it's that if you edit a post it doesn't show it?


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Still waiting for your point...maybe it's that if you edit a post it doesn't show it?


And that most people cannot edit their posts for more than 5 minutes.  Fact's Message #141 was posted at 8:22 PM.  Your response Message was posted at 8:58 PM, the one that included the sentence "For that matter what does White have to do with it?".  That's all I know about it.

Go look for yourself.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> And that most people cannot edit their posts for more than 5 minutes.  Fact's Message #141 was posted at 8:22 PM.  Your response Message was posted at 8:58 PM, the one that included the sentence "For that matter what does White have to do with it?".  That's all I know about it.
> 
> Go look for yourself.


But Fact says that he or she is unable to edit.. that he or she is "too cheap to pay". But you don't have to pay to edit. On top of that it doesn't show that the post was edited. So Fact makes a post, I read it. He or she edits the post then I respond to it. Problem with Fact is he or she is too full of it to admit it. Why would I respond what does white have to do with it if it was not in the original post? 

I'm not like you who likes to post things and then claim amnesia or delete the post and claim to have never posted it. 

And where is your buddy @JaP at these days? You two had the best arguments,  even if he owned you all of the time.


----------



## espola (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> But Fact says that he or she is unable to edit.. that he or she is "too cheap to pay". But you don't have to pay to edit. On top of that it doesn't show that the post was edited. So Fact makes a post, I read it. He or she edits the post then I respond to it. Problem with Fact is he or she is too full of it to admit it. Why would I respond what does white have to do with it if it was not in the original post?
> 
> I'm not like you who likes to post things and then claim amnesia or delete the post and claim to have never posted it.
> 
> And where is your buddy @JaP at these days? You two had the best arguments,  even if he owned you all of the time.


Anyone can edit his own posts for 5 minutes.  People who pay for the extra service level can edit their posts any time.  I am cheap also, which is why my edit time is limited and I don't know how to delete a post, unless it is just editing everything out within the 5-minute limit.  You criticize me, but you won't provide details.  How do I respond to that?


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

espola said:


> Anyone can edit his own posts for 5 minutes.  People who pay for the extra service level can edit their posts any time.  I am cheap also, which is why my edit time is limited and I don't know how to delete a post, unless it is just editing everything out within the 5-minute limit.  You criticize me, but you won't provide details.  How do I respond to that?


What details do you need?


----------



## Nefutous (Dec 20, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Just curious. I always thought that CIF had a rule that once you played in a HS game that you could not play outside HS again. If you did your HS team would have to forfeit the games you played in.


Most played DA thru last weeks Florida showcase. DA is now taking a break for a few weeks so they are playing high school.  But they are still on the DA roster and will probably decide to miss a few DA games in Jan, Feb to complete the high school season. But because they have a waiver, they are allowed to play both at the same time.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 20, 2018)

Nefutous said:


> Most played DA thru last weeks Florida showcase. DA is now taking a break for a few weeks so they are playing high school.  But they are still on the DA roster and will probably decide to miss a few DA games in Jan, Feb to complete the high school season. But because they have a waiver, they are allowed to play both at the same time.


As long as once they play a HS game they don't play in a DA game until HS is over then I don't believe there is a problem. Problems occurs when you play DA or Club during HS season that could cause your HS team to forfeit. At least that's been my understanding for as long as I can recall.


----------



## Nefutous (Dec 21, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> As long as once they play a HS game they don't play in a DA game until HS is over then I don't believe there is a problem. Problems occurs when you play DA or Club during HS season that could cause your HS team to forfeit. At least that's been my understanding for as long as I can recall.


You are so busy being hostile you have failed to grasp the valid points being made and have now included incorrect information that may lead to a player being ineligible.

Read posts by JCM #131 and MWN #124 and #136. The rule is US Soccer’s rule that full time DA players cannot play high school and then finish out the remainder of the DA season.  The only exception being if they were granted a waiver to play in high school  based on the finding that soccer was a contributing factor that allowed the player to be admitted to that high school (ex. Need based scholarship to underprivileged).  What some posters are saying, including me,  is that the DA players they are seeing playing high school are not financially needy and have been granted waivers.  My belief is that US Soccer should just do away with the rule and allow families to decide what is best.


----------



## MWN (Dec 21, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> As long as once they play a HS game they don't play in a DA game until HS is over then I don't believe there is a problem. Problems occurs when you play DA or Club during HS season that could cause your HS team to forfeit. At least that's been my understanding for as long as I can recall.



CIF Rules are you can't play Club and HS at the same time.  Club (stop) --> HS (start) --> HS (finish) --> Club (start).
The DA Rules are you can't come back to the DA if you play HS.  DA (stop) --> HS (start) --> HS (finish) --> Club (start), but not DA until new season.  The exception being you can come back to the DA if you went to a private school and received a waiver from the DA.
My personal opinion on HS for both boys and girls is that only about 120 DA players in each gender are really being looked at for the National Team and and/or the pro ranks.  The rest of the kids are fodder so the clubs and DA can have a league.  Take the best 120 or 200 or whatever the number is and FULLY FUND their soccer (training, housing, schooling, etc.), take the rest of the kids that are not on the 100% DA/US Soccer/MLS scholarship and allow them to do what they want.  For kids, especially girls, who have little to no professional path give up the social element of HS sports (soccer) is selfish and wrong of the DA.  99% of all DA players will never touch a National Team uniform or make the pro ranks ... let them get a fully rounded education and be student athletes for the HS.


----------



## MWN (Dec 21, 2018)

And another thing ... with regard to "Edit-Gate": who really cares if the post was edited.   Do you all know how many times I press the "post" button and then go back reread my post and say "damn, that was a little harsh ... or ... that makes no sense ... or oops, is that even a word?"  Its easy to use inflammatory language and not appreciate that what might be an off the hand quip or remark could be interpreted as offensive.

I really wish more people would press the edit button.


----------



## JCM (Dec 21, 2018)

MWN said:


> CIF Rules are you can't play Club and HS at the same time.  Club (stop) --> HS (start) --> HS (finish) --> Club (start).
> The DA Rules are you can't come back to the DA if you play HS.  DA (stop) --> HS (start) --> HS (finish) --> Club (start), but not DA until new season.  The exception being you can come back to the DA if you went to a private school and received a waiver from the DA.
> My personal opinion on HS for both boys and girls is that only about 120 DA players in each gender are really being looked at for the National Team and and/or the pro ranks.  The rest of the kids are fodder so the clubs and DA can have a league.  Take the best 120 or 200 or whatever the number is and FULLY FUND their soccer (training, housing, schooling, etc.), take the rest of the kids that are not on the 100% DA/US Soccer/MLS scholarship and allow them to do what they want.  For kids, especially girls, who have little to no professional path give up the social element of HS sports (soccer) is selfish and wrong of the DA.  99% of all DA players will never touch a National Team uniform or make the pro ranks ... let them get a fully rounded education and be student athletes for the HS.


This, IMO, is the correct take. I honestly think there should be two DA's. One for the MLS Academies, one for the rest.  They could play each other in show cases or not at all. The MLS one should/would play a national schedule and all have local academies that house and school the kids.  The DA2 would be the Patadores, Surf, Nomad's of the world, high level coaching and players, best path to play in college and a place to get noticed by the MLS academies, but also would take a break for high school.  It's dumb for an LA or SD team to go to Utah or Barca for a one off game.  It's great to get to compete against them, but the reality is that those teams train like pros and should be treated differently.  It would also foster more competition to get on to those teams.

I would start this at u16.  The late bloomers can still be found through the DA2, they just wouldn't have to give up HS, miss school on Friday so they can take a seven hour bus ride for a Saturday a.m. game in AZ or otherwise be used by the system for the benefit of the 1% that US Soccer really cares about.


----------



## Fact (Dec 21, 2018)

MWN said:


> And another thing ... with regard to "Edit-Gate": who really cares if the post was edited.   Do you all know how many times I press the "post" button and then go back reread my post and say "damn, that was a little harsh ... or ... that makes no sense ... or oops, is that even a word?"  Its easy to use inflammatory language and not appreciate that what might be an off the hand quip or remark could be interpreted as offensive.
> 
> I really wish more people would press the edit button.


Here’s my issue that shows what type of person he is.  As I have said in DM’s to other people, I originally thought he just misread what I wrote.  However when he claimed to have a screenshot of MY post and then changed my post in his response, that takes the issue to a new level.


----------



## beachbum (Dec 21, 2018)

https://www.soccertoday.com/world-cup-star-julie-foudy-on-why-high-school-soccer-is-important-for-girls/


----------



## espola (Dec 21, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> But Fact says that he or she is unable to edit.. that he or she is "too cheap to pay". But you don't have to pay to edit. On top of that it doesn't show that the post was edited. So Fact makes a post, I read it. He or she edits the post then I respond to it. Problem with Fact is he or she is too full of it to admit it. Why would I respond what does white have to do with it if it was not in the original post?
> 
> I'm not like you who likes to post things and then claim amnesia or delete the post and claim to have never posted it.
> 
> And where is your buddy @JaP at these days? You two had the best arguments,  even if he owned you all of the time.


Someone claiming the JaP account still posts here on occasion.   He avoids anything I post.  So who "owned" whom?


----------



## watfly (Dec 21, 2018)

MWN said:


> My personal opinion on HS for both boys and girls is that only about 120 DA players in each gender are really being looked at for the National Team and and/or the pro ranks.  The rest of the kids are fodder so the clubs and DA can have a league.  Take the best 120 or 200 or whatever the number is and FULLY FUND their soccer (training, housing, schooling, etc.), take the rest of the kids that are not on the 100% DA/US Soccer/MLS scholarship and allow them to do what they want.  For kids, especially girls, who have little to no professional path give up the social element of HS sports (soccer) is selfish and wrong of the DA.  99% of all DA players will never touch a National Team uniform or make the pro ranks ... let them get a fully rounded education and be student athletes for the HS.


Totally agree although I think its more a matter of arrogance than selfishness.  US Soccer claims that "The Development Academy upholds this rule (no outside activity) because we believe elite players require world class environments."  We've enjoyed DA so far but to call it "world class" is a huge exaggeration.  The training is no better or different than any other Flight 1 team.  The only difference I've noticed is the quality of the reffing, which has been a significant improvement despite the fact we only have one ref for U12.  It appears that US Soccer/DA doesn't believe in the philosophy "The game is the best teacher" but instead has the philosophy that "We know what's best for your child".  It's this arrogance that is one of the fundamental problems with US Soccer and youth soccer in general.  https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/claudio-reyna-on-american-soccer-were-far-too-arrogant-far/1w9vcdubu5yhf1vj9c89qmxyib


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 21, 2018)

MWN said:


> CIF Rules are you can't play Club and HS at the same time.  Club (stop) --> HS (start) --> HS (finish) --> Club (start).
> The DA Rules are you can't come back to the DA if you play HS.  DA (stop) --> HS (start) --> HS (finish) --> Club (start), but not DA until new season.  The exception being you can come back to the DA if you went to a private school and received a waiver from the DA.
> My personal opinion on HS for both boys and girls is that only about 120 DA players in each gender are really being looked at for the National Team and and/or the pro ranks.  The rest of the kids are fodder so the clubs and DA can have a league.  Take the best 120 or 200 or whatever the number is and FULLY FUND their soccer (training, housing, schooling, etc.), take the rest of the kids that are not on the 100% DA/US Soccer/MLS scholarship and allow them to do what they want.  For kids, especially girls, who have little to no professional path give up the social element of HS sports (soccer) is selfish and wrong of the DA.  99% of all DA players will never touch a National Team uniform or make the pro ranks ... let them get a fully rounded education and be student athletes for the HS.


I guess my question then is why is DA viewed differently the Club by CIF? Why would they allow a kid who is attending a Private HS (based on their soccer merits) who plays DA to double dip but a kid who plays ECNL cannot? Besides the fact that there are not as many tournaments for the olders out here for them to participate in this time of year, it seems odd that they are viewed differently .


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 21, 2018)

MWN said:


> And another thing ... with regard to "Edit-Gate": who really cares if the post was edited.   Do you all know how many times I press the "post" button and then go back reread my post and say "damn, that was a little harsh ... or ... that makes no sense ... or oops, is that even a word?"  Its easy to use inflammatory language and not appreciate that what might be an off the hand quip or remark could be interpreted as offensive.
> 
> I really wish more people would press the edit button.


According to Fact you have to pay to edit... wrong.

I have no problem with edit feature. It's great to use but to post, then edit, then deny is lame..


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 21, 2018)

Fact said:


> As I have said in DM’s to other people,


I'm really in your head so bad that you are DMing people. What... are you in Middle School and are seeking your friends approval. Where you THAT person in HS?!This is hilarious...

Merry Christmas Fact.


----------



## MWN (Dec 21, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> I guess my question then is why is DA viewed differently the Club by CIF? Why would they allow a kid who is attending a Private HS (based on their soccer merits) who plays DA to double dip but a kid who plays ECNL cannot? Besides the fact that there are not as many tournaments for the olders out here for them to participate in this time of year, it seems odd that they are viewed differently .


The CIF does not allow a kids to play HS AND Club (DA is club).  No student may play the same sport during the HS season ("season of sport").  The HS season doesn't technically start for most of SoCal until January.  The preseason started in mid November.  Under CIF rules any game played with a referee counts, thus, kids cannot play with their outside club once they suit up and play a game with a referee.  This doesn't mean that a DA/Club player cannot practice with the team, attend the game and sit on the bench.  What we have going on right now is a few DA/Club teams are still playing through December.  Those players cannot play in any HS game.  Once the winter showcases are over, then the player will make the election to play HS.  If waivered, they can return.  If no waiver, they are done with DA until the following season.  But, under no circumstance can a player play in a CIF division simultaneously with their Club team under CIF rules (see, Rule 2509, https://cifss.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Soccer-Blue-Book-18-19.pdf).


----------



## espola (Dec 21, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> According to Fact you have to pay to edit... wrong.
> 
> I have no problem with edit feature. It's great to use but to post, then edit, then deny is lame..


What was the timestamp on your screencopy?


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 21, 2018)

MWN said:


> The CIF does not allow a kids to play HS AND Club (DA is club).  No student may play the same sport during the HS season ("season of sport").  The HS season doesn't technically start for most of SoCal until January.  The preseason started in mid November.  Under CIF rules any game played with a referee counts, thus, kids cannot play with their outside club once they suit up and play a game with a referee.  This doesn't mean that a DA/Club player cannot practice with the team, attend the game and sit on the bench.  What we have going on right now is a few DA/Club teams are still playing through December.  Those players cannot play in any HS game.  Once the winter showcases are over, then the player will make the election to play HS.  If waivered, they can return.  If no waiver, they are done with DA until the following season.  But, under no circumstance can a player play in a CIF division simultaneously with their Club team under CIF rules (see, Rule 2509, https://cifss.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Soccer-Blue-Book-18-19.pdf).


Ok.. what I recall that is nothing new. My DDs would play through the end of Nov sometimes into Dec then join their HS team.


----------



## Fact (Dec 21, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Ok.. what I recall that is nothing new. My DDs would play through the end of Nov sometimes into Dec then join their HS team.


Boy are you stupid!  DA players cannot return to their DA team for the rest of the DA season if they played high school without a waiver.


----------



## Multi Sport (Dec 21, 2018)

Fact said:


> Boy are you stupid!  DA players cannot return to their DA team for the rest of the DA season if they played high school without a waiver.


I really am in your head. Your post has nothing to do with mine. 

Now go and edit your post and DM E about me...
It's what you do best.

Enjoy your New Year Fact


----------



## Jonathan David Jacobs (Dec 30, 2018)

Play High school   her friends and community will be supporting her.  We all know it's not as good as club but who watches club at that age besides angry parents in tommy bahama beach chairs?


----------



## OrangeCountyDad (Jan 4, 2019)

can you guys arguing just meet up and kiss already?


----------



## jpeter (Jan 11, 2019)

Article in times about playing in high school, going to college, and having a fun  journey along the way
https://www.latimes.com/sports/highschool/la-sp-high-schools-sondheimer-20190110-story.html

"Elliot played on Loyola’s Southern Section championship team in 2014. It helped convince Henry to give up playing in U.S. Soccer’s developmental Academy League when he entered high school so he could play with his big brother. The two were together when Loyola won a regional title in 2016.

“I saw the experience that he had playing for his high school and all the fun he had winning a CIF championship,” Henry said of playing for Loyola instead of continuing on in the Academy League. “I was at that game when he won and I just thought that was the greatest thing ever, and the Academy League wasn’t for me, so I chose to play high school and it’s one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.

“I’ve improved a lot through my four years, got a great college opportunity and have made some of my best friends on the soccer team.”

No Regrets....


----------



## Jonathan David Jacobs (Jan 11, 2019)

awesome!  Thays the way it should be.  Friends, family , amd comunity.  

Thanks for sharing


----------



## Slammerdad (Jan 18, 2019)

Not to rev up an old controversy, but my DD on her High School team started with a roster of 22.  They are down to 14, with a balance of injuries that include torn acl, meniscus tear (both from violent collisions), several under concussion protocol(again from violent collisions) and many are forcasted to miss their olders National cup with their club team and possibly next club season.  While injuries are inevitable, I watched with a keen eye how many of these occurred.  High school seems now to be littered now with oversized and  underskilled players who pretty much play the back line (from a TOP coach in OC yelling!) "SEND IT" and a front line.  Lost in the HS game is any balance of passing or finesse and it becomes this game of deep kicks with girls collapsing on the balls (and opponents) in a melee that looks more like rugby.  It is ugly soccer at best and with my DD starting to converse with a few College coaches, I am re-thinking the HS game from  a safety perspective. She likes it but now (as a sophomore playing varsity) sees how bad it really is this year.  Do I push her to continue or tell her to maybe skip it?  It is really up to her but every game I watch as another ball gets lofted into the air (there are no flat touches) and two girls go full speed for the header......


----------



## Sheriff Joe (Jan 18, 2019)

Jonathan David Jacobs said:


> awesome!  Thays the way it should be.  Friends, family , amd comunity.
> 
> Thanks for sharing


And getting drunk.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jan 18, 2019)

There is actually a lot of variability in the high school soccer scene.  Not all coaches are bad and not all teams play ugly soccer.  Have had a lot of experience with high school soccer over the years and not many serious injuries and certainly no one has missed a club season because of it.  Have, however , seen many serious injuries during club season.   There are a lot of scary high school stories shared here but there are also other experiences that have been great.  It just depends on your DD, the high school, the league etc.  Just like the recruiting process there is no one right answer or path in youth soccer.  For some high school soccer has been an incredible experience with lifelong memories.  For others it is not the right fit.  You have to consider many factors and make the best decision for your DD based on the individual situation.


----------



## MWN (Jan 18, 2019)

Slammerdad said:


> Not to rev up an old controversy, but my DD on her High School team started with a roster of 22.  They are down to 14, with a balance of injuries that include torn acl, meniscus tear (both from violent collisions), several under concussion protocol(again from violent collisions) and many are forcasted to miss their olders National cup with their club team and possibly next club season.  While injuries are inevitable, I watched with a keen eye how many of these occurred.  High school seems now to be littered now with oversized and  underskilled players who pretty much play the back line (from a TOP coach in OC yelling!) "SEND IT" and a front line.  Lost in the HS game is any balance of passing or finesse and it becomes this game of deep kicks with girls collapsing on the balls (and opponents) in a melee that looks more like rugby.  It is ugly soccer at best and with my DD starting to converse with a few College coaches, I am re-thinking the HS game from  a safety perspective. She likes it but now (as a sophomore playing varsity) sees how bad it really is this year.  Do I push her to continue or tell her to maybe skip it?  It is really up to her but every game I watch as another ball gets lofted into the air (there are no flat touches) and two girls go full speed for the header......


I mirror what @Soccer43 wrote and agree.
Your experience is the opposite of our experience.  This is probably due to the fact that in our area (Temecula) there is no older DA program (Murrieta Surf stops at the youngers), thus, we have decent talent that could be playing in the DA (we have a few kids with scholarship offers) that are not and while the bottom teams have played poorly, the top 3 teams in the league have played a decent brand of soccer and we have not experienced any injuries that would not have also occurred in club.  I do appreciate that I'm watching the Boys, who tend to play a much faster game and are less injury prone.  I know that our HS coach really encourages ball control and my boys HS team will often get 12 or more passes in before losing it on a cross in the box or shot on goal.  I've been impressed.

If I had a girl that was scholarship material, I would question playing HS for the reason you cite and because many of the pitches are poorly maintained artificial turf.  While properly maintained turf can be just as safe as natural grass, poorly maintained synthetic turf is not.


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## Speed (Jan 18, 2019)

My DD freshman playing JV. Has been great, she enjoys the girls and the coaching. It will not replace club (she continuously talks about the bad soccer)  but she appreciates the HS for different reasons. The downfall as of last week-- a broken ankle. And not from a bad collision but from poorly maintained turf (my theory). season over and now affecting the club season which is a bummer. life goes on though

We went to pick up our DD from boys JV game only to be greeted by 2 ambulances in parking lot....DD said very well played, fair game that wasn't dirty. 2 boys went up headed each other and ended up on the ground neither moving. Just a fluke.


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## Sheriff Joe (Jan 18, 2019)

Speed said:


> My DD freshman playing JV. Has been great, she enjoys the girls and the coaching. It will not replace club (she continuously talks about the bad soccer)  but she appreciates the HS for different reasons. The downfall as of last week-- a broken ankle. And not from a bad collision but from poorly maintained turf (my theory). season over and now affecting the club season which is a bummer. life goes on though
> 
> We went to pick up our DD from boys JV game only to be greeted by 2 ambulances in parking lot....DD said very well played, fair game that wasn't dirty. 2 boys went up headed each other and ended up on the ground neither moving. Just a fluke.


My sophomore girl loved playing varsity soccer last year and hates it this year, she will not be playing next year.


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## Speed (Jan 18, 2019)

Sheriff Joe said:


> My sophomore girl loved playing varsity soccer last year and hates it this year, she will not be playing next year.


Why hating it


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## outside! (Jan 18, 2019)

Slammerdad said:


> Not to rev up an old controversy, but my DD on her High School team started with a roster of 22.  They are down to 14, with a balance of injuries that include torn acl, meniscus tear (both from violent collisions), several under concussion protocol(again from violent collisions) and many are forcasted to miss their olders National cup with their club team and possibly next club season.  While injuries are inevitable, I watched with a keen eye how many of these occurred.  High school seems now to be littered now with oversized and  underskilled players who pretty much play the back line (from a TOP coach in OC yelling!) "SEND IT" and a front line.  Lost in the HS game is any balance of passing or finesse and it becomes this game of deep kicks with girls collapsing on the balls (and opponents) in a melee that looks more like rugby.  It is ugly soccer at best and with my DD starting to converse with a few College coaches, I am re-thinking the HS game from  a safety perspective. She likes it but now (as a sophomore playing varsity) sees how bad it really is this year.  Do I push her to continue or tell her to maybe skip it?  It is really up to her but every game I watch as another ball gets lofted into the air (there are no flat touches) and two girls go full speed for the header......


HS soccer has a much wider range of skill levels. While not every team plays poor soccer, many do and you are almost certain to run into those teams in the course of the season. The fact that all of the games are played on small football fields decreases the space between players and increases the chances of collisions. Any upper level player with plans to play college should be aware of the issues and play accordingly by minimizing the amount of time they hold onto the ball and declining to go in for contested headers.


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## Zdrone (Jan 18, 2019)

outside! said:


> HS soccer has a much wider range of skill levels.


Totally agree with this.  I would take it a step further and add (probably previously in this thread) that there is a wider range of size levels as well.  My (younger side) freshman on JV is playing against kids far larger and some fully bearded kids.
On the skill side, its interesting to see how the kids seem to fall in to the "cant touch the ball more than once without losing it" or "head down trying to dribble the entire defensive line" categories.   Our coach works hard at trying to get them to build it out of the back but its tough.

Frustrating to watch as a parent and I know it drives my kid nuts but if asked, I would bet he would do it again.


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## Kicker4Life (Jan 18, 2019)

Speed said:


> My DD freshman playing JV. Has been great, she enjoys the girls and the coaching. It will not replace club (she continuously talks about the bad soccer)  but she appreciates the HS for different reasons. The downfall as of last week-- a broken ankle. And not from a bad collision but from poorly maintained turf (my theory). season over and now affecting the club season which is a bummer. life goes on though
> 
> We went to pick up our DD from boys JV game only to be greeted by 2 ambulances in parking lot....DD said very well played, fair game that wasn't dirty. 2 boys went up headed each other and ended up on the ground neither moving. Just a fluke.


Sorry to hear about the injury. Hope she heals quickly and completely!


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## Simisoccerfan (Jan 18, 2019)

Through my dd's first three years playing HS soccer I did see more injuries (including multiple acl's) and concussions than I every saw in all of the years my dd has played club.   Over the last year in DA I have yet to see a serious injury or concussion (keeping my fingers crossed).  Maybe that's luck but its hard to tell.   Most of the HS teams I have seen play very direct.  In that style of play the overly physical type of players make a huge impact as the ball get's booted forward.   In a possession game those girls don't even get close to the ball since its always moving away from them.    So I would tend to believe its the style of play (likely resulting from the lack of skill) that leeds to more of these injuries.


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## Sheriff Joe (Jan 18, 2019)

Speed said:


> Why hating it


Poor play and coaching and she is a 16 year old beautiful female.


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## Sheriff Joe (Jan 18, 2019)

Zdrone said:


> Totally agree with this.  I would take it a step further and add (probably previously in this thread) that there is a wider range of size levels as well.  My (younger side) freshman on JV is playing against kids far larger and some *fully bearded* kids.
> On the skill side, its interesting to see how the kids seem to fall in to the "cant touch the ball more than once without losing it" or "head down trying to dribble the entire defensive line" categories.   Our coach works hard at trying to get them to build it out of the back but its tough.
> 
> Frustrating to watch as a parent and I know it drives my kid nuts but if asked, I would bet he would do it again.


Boys or girls?


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## outside! (Jan 18, 2019)

Simisoccerfan said:


> So I would tend to believe its the style of play (likely resulting from the lack of skill) that leeds to more of these injuries.


And the tiny field. It would be great if new high schools would make the fields big enough for soccer and put the football field as a postage stamp in the middle.


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## Surfref (Jan 18, 2019)

Slammerdad said:


> Not to rev up an old controversy, but my DD on her High School team started with a roster of 22.  They are down to 14, with a balance of injuries that include torn acl, meniscus tear (both from violent collisions), several under concussion protocol(again from violent collisions) and many are forcasted to miss their olders National cup with their club team and possibly next club season.  While injuries are inevitable, I watched with a keen eye how many of these occurred.  High school seems now to be littered now with oversized and  underskilled players who pretty much play the back line (from a TOP coach in OC yelling!) "SEND IT" and a front line.  Lost in the HS game is any balance of passing or finesse and it becomes this game of deep kicks with girls collapsing on the balls (and opponents) in a melee that looks more like rugby.  It is ugly soccer at best and with my DD starting to converse with a few College coaches, I am re-thinking the HS game from  a safety perspective. She likes it but now (as a sophomore playing varsity) sees how bad it really is this year.  Do I push her to continue or tell her to maybe skip it?  It is really up to her but every game I watch as another ball gets lofted into the air (there are no flat touches) and two girls go full speed for the header......


I have evidently seen a different quality of the HS game than you.  I referee both girls and boys teams and have had no kickball teams in the 28 games I have officiated this season.  The varsity teams have actually played some decent soccer with most teams building out of the back and using the long ball sparingly. Since HS soccer is about winning and not development, there is nothing wrong with playing direct if you have the right mix of players.  Thankfully I have had no players suffer injuries that prevented them from reentering the game, but have had two JV players suffer head injuries.  The two head injuries occurred on corner kicks and resulted from contact with teammates.  Some of the JV games have been really ugly soccer, but the players seemed to be having a good time.  The surprising thing to me is the lack of cards I have issued.  I have only issued 9 yellow cards and one red card (profanity) unlike in past years at the same game count I would have issued close to 20 yellows and at least 2 reds for serious foul play or violent conduct.  All of the coaches have been good and respectful.  So far it has been and enjoyable season and I really like that most San Diego county schools are using 3 referees for varsity league games.


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## espola (Jan 18, 2019)

outside! said:


> And the tiny field. It would be great if new high schools would make the fields big enough for soccer and put the football field as a postage stamp in the middle.


Usually the problem is not the football field - it's the track.  Inside the typical high-school 400-meter track with circular curves at each end, the largest field that will fit is about 120 yards by 65 yards, such as at Poway HS.  If the longjump pits are inside the track, it's even tighter, such as at Rancho Bernardo HS (who also put the goals on the football goal lines, so the field is 100 yards by 56 yards).  Cathedral Catholic tried a slightly different design with elliptically-flattened curves at each end, which allows them to have a 112-yard by 65-yard field, even with the jump pits inside the track.


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## Surfref (Jan 18, 2019)

outside! said:


> And the tiny field. It would be great if new high schools would make the fields big enough for soccer and put the football field as a postage stamp in the middle.


Hilltop HS new turf field is really large (college size) both in length and width.  The HS field I dislike because of its size is Rancho Bernardo HS because it is really short and narrow.  It is only 100 yards long and the touch line is only about one yard from the football sideline.  There is not enough room for players to spread out so teams, especially RB, tend to play very direct and there are a lot of fouls.


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## Sheriff Joe (Jan 18, 2019)

Surfref said:


> I have evidently seen a different quality of the HS game than you.  I referee both girls and boys teams and have had no kickball teams in the 28 games I have officiated this season.  The varsity teams have actually played some decent soccer with most teams building out of the back and using the long ball sparingly. Since HS soccer is about winning and not development, there is nothing wrong with playing direct if you have the right mix of players.  Thankfully I have had no players suffer injuries that prevented them from reentering the game, but have had two JV players suffer head injuries.  The two head injuries occurred on corner kicks and resulted from contact with teammates.  Some of the JV games have been really ugly soccer, but the players seemed to be having a good time.  The surprising thing to me is the lack of cards I have issued.  I have only issued 9 yellow cards and one red card (profanity) unlike in past years at the same game count I would have issued close to 20 yellows and at least 2 reds for serious foul play or violent conduct.  All of the coaches have been good and respectful.  So far it has been and enjoyable season and I really like that most San Diego county schools are using 3 referees for varsity league games.


Sounds like heaven for a ref, you must set the tone early.
In the 6 or 8 games I have watched [girls] there has been at least 10 yellows and 1 red with 3 or 4 non returning injuries.
North OC. I know nothing about refereeing, but I would be dishing many more yellows than I have seen given.


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## jpeter (Jan 18, 2019)

Our daughter who played for 4 years will tell you one of her fondest memories was a 2ot thriller against a fierce  local rival.

   She assisted a senior who scored her one and only goal in 4 yrs to win it & send the team through.   One of the most exciting games she every played in a driving rain 2 OT's with last min goals 2x.  Priceless the joy that came out her desire to help  her friend score,   tried so many times over the years  and to finally get it done  was a special moment for everyone.


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## espola (Jan 18, 2019)

Surfref said:


> Hilltop HS new turf field is really large (college size) both in length and width.  The HS field I dislike because of its size is Rancho Bernardo HS because it is really short and narrow.  It is only 100 yards long and the touch line is only about one yard from the football sideline.  There is not enough room for players to spread out so teams, especially RB, tend to play very direct and there are a lot of fouls.


Home games are an advantage for RB; away games not so much (Poway 2-1 RB at Poway last night).


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## TangoCity (Jan 18, 2019)

Varsity HS games I've seen look pretty physical, especially the league games.  JV and Frosh/Soph not too bad.  Dirtiest teams I've seen are still club teams (by far) but the soccer is obviously better at club.


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## Sheriff Joe (Jan 18, 2019)

TangoCity said:


> Varsity HS games I've seen look pretty physical, especially the league games.  JV and Frosh/Soph not too bad.  Dirtiest teams I've seen are still club teams (by far) but the soccer is obviously better at club.


Agreed, they try to do it and most high schoolers cant help themselves.


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## CaliKlines (Jan 18, 2019)

jpeter said:


> Our daughter who played for 4 years will tell you one of her fondest memories was a 2ot thriller against a fierce  local rival.
> 
> She assisted a senior who scored her one and only goal in 4 yrs to win it & send the team through.   One of the most exciting games she every played in a driving rain 2 OT's with last min goals 2x.  Priceless the joy that came out her desire to help  her friend score,   tried so many times over the years  and to finally get it done  was a special moment for everyone.


YLHS?


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## davin (Jan 19, 2019)

High school soccer has been a great experience for my daughter. She’s a freshman starting on the varsity. The soccer definitely is many levels below what she is used to playing in he club team. It’s more direct and the ball is in the air a lot more often, but she finds it enjoyable anyway because of the social aspect and the fact that she feels a lot less pressure than in club. She feels she can try new things and feels more freedom to make mistakes.

As far as physical play, from what I have observed so far, high level club soccer is A LOT more physical than high school. No serious injuries that I’ve observed or heard of so far halfway through her first season of high school.

It’s definitely been a positive for her, a welcome break and change of pace from club, and will eagerly do it again next year.


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## Soccer43 (Jan 19, 2019)

Zdrone said:


> Totally agree with this.  I would take it a step further and add (probably previously in this thread) that there is a wider range of size levels as well.  My (younger side) freshman on JV is playing against kids far larger and some fully bearded kids.


Hoping your player is a DS not DD


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## fotos4u2 (Jan 20, 2019)

Interesting to hear how everyone has different experiences with high school soccer.  My kid is having a lot of fun this year (her last) and is happy with her choice to stop pursuing the Academy "dream" and instead just have fun playing with her friends.  

FWIW, our area wasn't hit that hard by the creation of the DA on the girls side.  We "lost" exactly 3 players.  One who as a non-starter as a sophomore (and probably wouldn't have earned the starting spot until senior year).  One who was a starter last year as a junior and was easily replaced with an ECNL player who's a junior this year.  The biggest loss was the a player who started as a freshman and is an amazing player (Pepperdine commit), however interestingly she was also hurt consistently through her one high school season (she'd get injured, recover, play 1 or 2 games and get hurt again).

All this to say that the players on our team are mostly strong club players.  Out of 22 players 14 play on Flight 1 teams, 1 is on ECNL, and 1 is on DPL.  The other 6 are on lower teams but none are starters.  

Do they play messy soccer sometimes?  Definitely.  Of course I've seen enough club games to know that messy soccer happens there too.  I've also seen my fair share of really messy college games.  Interestingly our high school team has had no major injuries this season.  We do have a bunch of players missing because of injuries from club season.  We also have one player who's been in and out of play for "minor" injuries but they are the same type of injuries that this player has gotten in club because she likes to play aggressive which sometimes ends in her getting hurt.  FWIW college play isn't exactly free from injury either.  Quite a few of our alumni that committed to play in college over the past few years ended up injured the first or second season of play (some have never seen the field, getting hurt in practice).


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## GKDad65 (Jan 29, 2019)

H.S. ball is ugly at best but the kids love it and will remember this time LONG after the Club and DA are gone.
So I tolerate it.


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