# 2018/ 2019 High School Season



## Night Owl (Jul 5, 2018)

I need help scheming, Where can you find out when season starts? 
What day does High School Soccer season start this year? 
Traditionally it has been Dec 1st.
Rumor has it it’s starting sooner or later.


----------



## MWN (Jul 5, 2018)

Go to the CIF-SS website and look at the calendar.


----------



## MWN (Jul 5, 2018)

MWN said:


> Go to the CIF-SS website and look at the calendar.


https://www.cifss.org/news/2018-2019-sports-calendar/

The soccer season has been pushed up (earlier) two weeks.


----------



## twoclubpapa (Jul 5, 2018)

Not just a rumor ... it's true.  There's a related thread in another forum See http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/new-high-school-soccer-schedule-impact-on-thanksgiving-tourneys.15299/#post-200213

CIF Southern Section:  1st contest is Nov 12, 2018, league play starts Dec 22, 2018, last contest is January 31st, 2019. This year 2 scrimmages and 28 contests (games) are allowed with all tournament games counted toward the limit.  See https://www.cifss.org/resources/calendar/

CIF San Diego Section:  1st contest is Nov 12, 2018, league play starts Dec 26, 2018, last contest is February 8, 2019.  See http://www.cifsds.org/uploads/2/3/3/6/23368454/2018-19_cifsds_sop_dates.xlsx

CIF Los Angeles City Section:  1st contest is Nov 9, 2018,  other dates not shown on calendar.  See https://www.cif-la.org/apps/events/2018/11/?id=9


----------



## espola (Jul 5, 2018)

twoclubpapa said:


> Not just a rumor ... it's true.  There's a related thread in another forum See http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/new-high-school-soccer-schedule-impact-on-thanksgiving-tourneys.15299/#post-200213
> 
> CIF Southern Section:  1st contest is Nov 12, 2018, league play starts Dec 22, 2018, last contest is January 31st, 2019. This year 2 scrimmages and 28 contests (games) are allowed with all tournament games counted toward the limit.  See https://www.cifss.org/resources/calendar/
> 
> ...


The club players don't like it.  The club coaches don't like it.  But they don't get a vote.

However, the HS players who are also club players don't like it, and the HS coaches who are also club coaches don't like it, which is most of each.  So whose idea was this?


----------



## Frank (Jul 5, 2018)

espola said:


> The club players don't like it.  The club coaches don't like it.  But they don't get a vote.
> 
> However, the HS players who are also club players don't like it, and the HS coaches who are also club coaches don't like it, which is most of each.  So whose idea was this?


think of all those forfeits HS's are going have at the end of the season when teams get called out for their players playing both HS and Club back in November


----------



## twoclubpapa (Jul 5, 2018)

Frank said:


> think of all those forfeits HS's are going have at the end of the season when teams get called out for their players playing both HS and Club back in November


The change allowing two scrimmages in the Southern Section will help out a little bit.  First, the HS team can play 2 scrimmages with their club players in the week and a half before Thanksgiving, Then the HS team club players can go play in Thanksgiving tournaments or showcases without an eligibility issue and return to their HS team the following Monday to start their season of sport by competing in an actual HS game.

The San Diego Section has different rules regarding outside participation and there will likely be issues arising during the season.


----------



## Mom Taxi (Jul 5, 2018)

Outside of the effects on club players and coaches as well as players who play other HS falls sports whose season can go well into the end of November, whose brilliant idea was it to have league play start in the middle of winter break? It’s one thing for players to miss HS tourney games that fall during  family vacations, but I know players don’t want to miss league games. Families can’t take summer vacations due to club and summer tourneys and now we can’t take winter vacations either? Who does it benefit to move the season up by 2 weeks?


----------



## Frank (Jul 5, 2018)

Mom Taxi said:


> Outside of the effects on club players and coaches as well as players who play other HS falls sports whose season can go well into the end of November, whose brilliant idea was it to have league play start in the middle of winter break? It’s one thing for players to miss HS tourney games that fall during  family vacations, but I know players don’t want to miss league games. Families can’t take summer vacations due to club and summer tourneys and now we can’t take winter vacations either? Who does it benefit to move the season up by 2 weeks?


I think it is spring sports pushing everything forward as CIF playoffs were finishing after some schools had already competed their year and were interfering with graduation. Therefore they moved all sports forward two weeks. Not just soccer.


----------



## MWN (Jul 6, 2018)

Frank said:


> I think it is spring sports pushing everything forward as CIF playoffs were finishing after some schools had already competed their year and were interfering with graduation. Therefore they moved all sports forward two weeks. Not just soccer.


Correct.
https://www.sbsun.com/2017/01/24/proposed-cif-ss-calendar-will-start-seasons-earlier/


----------



## MWN (Jul 6, 2018)

For the record, CRL/National League Pacific Division is not scheduling games for the HS age group (olders).  Youngers still have Nov./Dec. on the schedule.

Basically, all but a few sports shift earlier ... football, basketball, soccer, baseball, etc.  There will be a greater impact for the winter sports with overlap by about a week.


----------



## Fact (Jul 6, 2018)

Most high school coaches are also club coaches. If your
player is going to get playing time in high school, the coach will understand missing a few games over break for a family vacation. On the boys side I know it has always been an issue with waiting for Fall sports playoff to be over and club soccer players, especially DA players waiting for their break to leave DA. It will work out.


----------



## Zdrone (Jul 6, 2018)

Fact said:


> Most high school coaches are also club coaches. If your
> player is going to get playing time in high school, the coach will understand missing a few games over break for a family vacation.


A bit tongue in cheek but I have never known a club coach to be "reasonable" when it comes to missing games.  

My kids club coach is a high school coach and the high school coach is a club coach (different clubs).  After speaking to him, the club coach expects player to miss high school games if there is overlap.  
I haven't chatted with the high school coach (not my place), but I would expect player to miss club games (unless of coarse its his club team).


----------



## MWN (Jul 6, 2018)

I'm lucky, my kids High School coach is also his Club coach, we're just going to roll with the flow and do whatever the coach says.


----------



## Zdrone (Jul 6, 2018)

Zdrone said:


> (unless of coarse its his club team).


Jesus remind me to proof read...

coarse...  sheesh


----------



## Fact (Jul 6, 2018)

Zdrone said:


> A bit tongue in cheek but I have never known a club coach to be "reasonable" when it comes to missing games.
> 
> My kids club coach is a high school coach and the high school coach is a club coach (different clubs).  After speaking to him, the club coach expects player to miss high school games if there is overlap.
> I haven't chatted with the high school coach (not my place), but I would expect player to miss club games (unless of coarse its his club team).


I never said they will like it but they will understand (at least on the surface).  At some of the more competitive schools in San Diego, high school tryouts use to carry on into the Thanksgiving week break.  Many families had plans and I have never heard of a baller being cut for missing the last couple days of tryouts.  High School coaches want to win and if you discuss it in advance with them, most are not short sighted and do what it takes to keep your kid on the team.


----------



## Surfref (Jul 6, 2018)

I will be really surprised if there are more than a dozen HS games with referees played in San Diego county before Thanksgiving weekend.


----------



## Multi Sport (Jul 31, 2018)

espola said:


> The club players don't like it.  The club coaches don't like it.  But they don't get a vote.
> 
> However, the HS players who are also club players don't like it, and the HS coaches who are also club coaches don't like it, which is most of each.  So whose idea was this?


On this we agree.


----------



## Multi Sport (Jul 31, 2018)

Surfref said:


> I will be really surprised if there are more than a dozen HS games with referees played in San Diego county before Thanksgiving weekend.


I hope you're right. While my kids enjoyed and will still be enjoying HS soccer it's mainly for the social aspect snd that they can get at HS practice.


----------



## Banana Hammock (Oct 25, 2018)

Surfref said:


> I will be really surprised if there are more than a dozen HS games with referees played in San Diego county before Thanksgiving weekend.


What exactly are the rules for playing in High School and club at the same time? (mainly from the end of league to Thanksgiving tournaments)  Refs vs. no refs, scrimmage...  San Diego Section specifically.


----------



## Surfref (Oct 25, 2018)

Banana Hammock said:


> What exactly are the rules for playing in High School and club at the same time? (mainly from the end of league to Thanksgiving tournaments)  Refs vs. no refs, scrimmage...  San Diego Section specifically.


The HS coach should know the rules.  This is from the CIFSD meeting minutes held 16 October 2018.

Coaches were reminded about CIF Bylaw 600: no student-athlete can try-out for, practice with or compete on an outside team, i.e. club team, once they have participated in a CIF sanctioned scrimmage, game or match.
The Green Book has Bylaw 600 details.
Minutes link: http://www.cifsds.org/boys-soccer.html
Green Book link: http://www.cifsds.org/uploads/2/3/3/6/23368454/2018-19_cif_san_diego_greenbook.pdf


----------



## Nefutous (Oct 25, 2018)

Surfref said:


> The HS coach should know the rules.  This is from the CIFSD meeting minutes held 16 October 2018.
> 
> Coaches were reminded about CIF Bylaw 600: no student-athlete can try-out for, practice with or compete on an outside team, i.e. club team, once they have participated in a CIF sanctioned scrimmage, game or match.
> The Green Book has Bylaw 600 details.
> ...


Does anyone have advice on getting the San Diego section to sign off on attending ID camps. I know what the rule is, but in another sport my experience has been terrible with them dragging their feet.


----------



## ajaffe (Oct 25, 2018)

Competition is the imperative word here for San Diego section. In CIFSDS eyes the presence of a referee has no bearing, as long as a game is played between two teams it is considered competition. So tryouts and practice are okay, just no competing in a high school game and then a club game after that if they want to keep eligibility. 

ADs are the main point of contact for ID camp approvals. I usually go on Southern Section’s website and see if an ID camp is on there, if it is I tell my AD and it is up on the SDS site within a day or two. If it isn’t, I tell my AD and it is up within 3 or 4 days.


----------



## Surfref (Oct 25, 2018)

Nefutous said:


> Does anyone have advice on getting the San Diego section to sign off on attending ID camps. I know what the rule is, but in another sport my experience has been terrible with them dragging their feet.


Talk to the coach about this early, so the paperwork is submitted with plenty of time for approval.


----------



## outside! (Oct 26, 2018)

Nefutous said:


> Does anyone have advice on getting the San Diego section to sign off on attending ID camps. I know what the rule is, but in another sport my experience has been terrible with them dragging their feet.


Note that the college ID camp rule does not effect football players, since there season coincides with the college season. Because of this scheduling issue, this CIF rule dis-proportionally limits female athletes from pursuing educational opportunities. If I had the cash, there would be a Title IX lawsuit about this. I personally pointed this out to Jerry Schniepp in 2015, so if anyone wants to sue, I have documentation of our correspondence to prove that they are aware of this issue but have chosen to do nothing.


----------



## Keepers_Keeper (Oct 26, 2018)

Banana Hammock said:


> What exactly are the rules for playing in High School and club at the same time? (mainly from the end of league to Thanksgiving tournaments)  Refs vs. no refs, scrimmage...  San Diego Section specifically.


HS season officially starts a bit earlier this year (Nov. 3 as opposed to 3rd week).  I found this on the CIF San Diego minutes:  
"Coaches were reminded about CIF Bylaw 600: no student-athlete can try-out for, practice with or compete on an outside team, i.e. club team, once they have participated in a CIF sanctioned scrimmage, game or match."

There are also rules about athletes attending college camps during the HS sport season.  They can attend, but have to get approval from CIF  for up to 2 college camps during HS season.  School athletic directors can submit a waiver letter to CIF on your athlete's behalf.  There is usually a running list of 'approved' college ID camps on the CIF website.


----------



## Keepers_Keeper (Oct 26, 2018)

Nefutous said:


> Does anyone have advice on getting the San Diego section to sign off on attending ID camps. I know what the rule is, but in another sport my experience has been terrible with them dragging their feet.


*Attendance at College ID camps in all sports.*

*1.   With CIFSDS prior approval, student-athletes are permitted to attend two college ID camps in any given season of sport. Attendance at any camp beyond two ID camps is a violation and would result in the penalties described in 601.A.*

*2.  A College ID camp is defined as a sport specific camp, held on a college campus under the direction of a college coach.*

*3.  Student athletes must receive permission from the site sport head coach and the Athletic Director/Administrator prior to attending the ID camp.  ID camp participation form must be completed, signed and approved by CIFSDS prior to a student attending.  Participation in an ID camp without prior approval would result in the penalties described in 601.A. *

*4.  Camp flyer or link to camp website must be forwarded to the CIFSDS office along with completed ID camp participation form.*

*5.  The section office will list approved college ID camps on the CIFSDS web site for reference purposes.*


----------



## espola (Oct 26, 2018)

Keepers_Keeper said:


> *Attendance at College ID camps in all sports.*
> 
> *1.   With CIFSDS prior approval, student-athletes are permitted to attend two college ID camps in any given season of sport. Attendance at any camp beyond two ID camps is a violation and would result in the penalties described in 601.A.*
> 
> ...


Why does this rule exist?


----------



## outside! (Oct 26, 2018)

espola said:


> Why does this rule exist?


To make sure female athletes miss out on educational opportunities.


----------



## ajaffe (Oct 26, 2018)

Male or female has nothing to do with that rule since everyone is affected. It is simply there to prevent “overuse” of the athlete. 

Unfortunately HS season doesn’t align with the college season so a lot of id amps happen during the season we are competing in.


----------



## Mom Taxi (Oct 26, 2018)

Nefutous said:


> Does anyone have advice on getting the San Diego section to sign off on attending ID camps. I know what the rule is, but in another sport my experience has been terrible with them dragging their feet.


Last year I found it to be a pretty easy process - I would email the coach and Athletic Director the camp information including the website with the specifics of the camp/description of the camp and the AD would forward it along to CIFSDS and I would get a response within a day or 2.


----------



## Mom Taxi (Oct 30, 2018)

Question about ID camp attendance (specifically for San Diego Section). So according to the CIFSDS green book players can attend 2 ID camps during the "season of sport:"


_With CIFSDS prior approval, student-athletes are permitted to attend two college ID camps in any given

season of sport. Attendance at any camp beyond two ID camps is a violation and would result in the

penalties described in 601.A._

And the season of sport is defined as:

_504. SEASON OF SPORT

All CIF member school interscholastic activities must be conducted in accordance with the following season of sport Bylaws. 
A. Definition of School and Individual Student-Athlete Season of Sport

The season of sport for a school is that period of time which elapses between the first interscholastic contest and the final contest for that particular sport. The season of a sport for any individual student is that period of time which elapses between the student’s first participation in an interscholastic contest and the student’s final participation in a contest for that particular sport in that season._

So if my kid attends an ID camp that occurs after the high school season has started but before she is able to start participating in high school soccer (b/c she is still competing in her fall sport) would that camp count against the 2 permitted? The way the rules read it sounds as though the 2 camps permitted only apply to camps that are attended after the first interscholastic contest has taken place. Thoughts?


----------



## outside! (Oct 30, 2018)

ajaffe said:


> Male or female has nothing to do with that rule since everyone is affected. It is simply there to prevent “overuse” of the athlete.
> 
> Unfortunately HS season doesn’t align with the college season so a lot of id amps happen during the season we are competing in.


I agree that was the original intent. Unfortunately they did not take into consideration the fact that high school soccer season does not align with college soccer season and many colleges have ID camps during high school soccer season. I personally doubt if they even though about soccer since most high school athletic directors have football, basketball or baseball backgrounds. While they did not mean to, they setup a system that discriminates against soccer players. Since soccer is one of the biggest participation sports for females (whereas football is for males), the system by default discriminates against female athletes. The mere fact that the list of approved ID camps on the CIFSD website are almost entirely for soccer proves this. When the system was setup, they did not mean to disadvantage female athletes. I informed them of the problem in 2015, so they are now complicit.


----------



## coachsamy (Oct 30, 2018)

The Open Division schools are playing after Thanksgiving, smart on them to figure on how to beat the system.


----------



## Multi Sport (Nov 2, 2018)

espola said:


> Why does this rule exist?


Again, we think the same on this. If the whole idea is for the betterment of the student then why limit them to what camp or how many camps they can attend?


----------



## MWN (Nov 3, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Again, we think the same on this. If the whole idea is for the betterment of the student then why limit them to what camp or how many camps they can attend?


Is attending an athletically focused soccer camp betterment of the student?  or the athlete?  These kids are viewed by the CIF as "Student-Athletes" and all of these rules are designed to ensure its doesn't become "athlete-student."


----------



## espola (Nov 3, 2018)

MWN said:


> Is attending an athletically focused soccer camp betterment of the student?  or the athlete?  These kids are viewed by the CIF as "Student-Athletes" and all of these rules are designed to ensure its doesn't become "athlete-student."


At some point, the parents of the student will decide that the opportunity to win a couple of hundred thousand dollars in scholarships is more important to them than the opinion of a school district bureaucrat.


----------



## twoclubpapa (Jan 25, 2019)

I've recently been asking high school coaches (V, JV and F/S) at my games (CIF Southern Section teams) what they thought about the earlier season start and the change in number of contests (20 --> 28 with all tournament games counting) and scrimmages (1 --> 2).  Most of the coaches were also club coaches and said they only scheduled scrimmages in the first two weeks of the season before Thanksgiving because they did not want to impact club players.  None had scheduled the max number of permitted games.


----------



## Surfref (Jan 25, 2019)

twoclubpapa said:


> I've recently been asking high school coaches (V, JV and F/S) at my games (CIF Southern Section teams) what they thought about the earlier season start and the change in number of contests (20 --> 28 with all tournament games counting) and scrimmages (1 --> 2).  Most of the coaches were also club coaches and said they only scheduled scrimmages in the first two weeks of the season before Thanksgiving because they did not want to impact club players.  None had scheduled the max number of permitted games.


I have talked to 6-7 coaches about this and all of them scheduled all games with referees for after Thanksgiving.  They said the change just gave them an extra couple weeks of practices.  A few of them did not like that the regular season ended a week earlier than past years. They said it did not allow them to schedule an easy week (only one game during the week) during league play.  All of the coaches were from D2-Open Div teams and also are club coaches.


----------



## jojosoccer (Jan 25, 2019)

HS season is almost over....
Any thoughts on the timing of the HS season?


----------



## Banana Hammock (Jan 26, 2019)

jojosoccer said:


> HS season is almost over....
> Any thoughts on the timing of the HS season?


My only thoughts of the HS seasons being over is ...finally!


----------



## jojosoccer (Jan 27, 2019)

Haha. I know it’s grueling.... 
You might surprisingly miss HS when your kids move on to college.
If your kids are having fun.....enjoy the time, as painful as it can be at times...


----------



## twoclubpapa (Feb 24, 2019)

With the CIF Southern Section finals all wrapped up it's only a handful of teams left still practicing in advance of the Southern Regionals on Feb 26 and 28 and Southern Regional Finals on March 2.  Hope you all enjoyed the season.  The first contest date for the 2019-20 CIFSS season is Nov 18, ten days before Thanksgiving.


----------

