# What should my son do?



## Speed (Sep 17, 2018)

Lots of good advice here and I now am seeking input. 

I have a B05 flight 2 player. Old coach left after all players signed on and we have a new great coach. History with the old coach is he allowed players to cuss each other out on field (f bombs and the works) for poor performance, parents mirroring player behavior to point of ejections from field and we could never see eye to eye on it. Said they needed to work it out in the field and would be better players/team for it. It was first year of club for us and I saw my sons play deteriorate before my eyes. Coach and I agreed to disagree. His team his rules. I refused to have my son quit because it is a life lesson and sometimes life really stinks. But overall was not a positive experience. A friend of ours pulled her kid from the team.

New team has some old players on it. New Coach believes in having one di%% on the team, because he doesn’t want laziness and wants team mates to call each other out when they should be working harder.....I agree with that. Coach is very respectful to kids and parents. One player, team captain, continuously tells my son to F off when my son tells him to tuck in, etc. as the coach is asking the team to do. 

I like this coach.....because I kept my kid on the other team he learned some crappy stuff by playing with some out of control behaviorally kids and I am working with him to undo that.....my son was harshly calling out a player on his team  and his current coach said ok, now that you have called him out on it how will you bring his confidence up? I think it’s a fair assessment and the right thing to say/do. My sons response to me after telling me the story was, “I wish I had someone that had done that for me”

my son is doing what the coach is asking but this kid is being a jerk about it. It happens at practices and games. Does he talk to coach or do I? This coach doesn’t know all this history but I do think it still affects my kid. He said his message to the coach is: I am doing what you ask by calling ppl out but this kid is a jerk and I will never consider him MY team captain. Says it’s very unmotivating for him. So then his playing is suffering. 

OR do I tell him to get in his face and shut him down and risk an altercation? I don’t know if the coach is aware this is going on but it’s happening with a few of the kids. 

I don’t know if this is the norm for Boys teams?? Didn’t have a brother, have a daughter who plays premier but they still are not a-holes to each other.


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## Eagle33 (Sep 17, 2018)

Never heard of this before nor this being anyway close to a norm on a boys team.


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## Speed (Sep 17, 2018)

OMG thank you for saying this.


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## jpeter (Sep 17, 2018)

No not normal at all, but kids can be mean & bully each other's occasionally.

Try to see if  son & coach can work this out together with his team.   I would have my son talk directly to his coach after every session if needed before I would get involved as a last resort.

Each player should learn to be captain so have your son ask his coach what it takes to be Captain even if it's just for one game.


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## Speed (Sep 17, 2018)

jpeter said:


> No not normal at all,
> 
> Try to see if  son & coach can work this out together with his team.   I would have my son talk directly to his coach after every session if needed before I would get involved as a last resort.
> 
> Each player should learn to be captain so have your son ask his coach what it takes to be Captain even if it's just for one game.


Thank you for the suggestion. In his evaluation the coach said he would like my son to be a captain but he’s inconsistent in this play. I think I know why with this happening on the field. So you would just have him talk to him no parent present correct?


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## jpeter (Sep 17, 2018)

Speed said:


> Thank you for the suggestion. In his evaluation the coach said he would like my son to be a captain but he’s inconsistent in this play. I think I know why with this happening on the field. So you would just have him talk to him no parent present correct?


Yes for sure if middle school or older.

Talking regularly with his coach helped my player learn a lot about dealing with his teammates, respect, motivation. Soccer team unity is a big part of being successful,  when your all playing for each other.


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## Speed (Sep 17, 2018)

I agree, thank you so much. He’s a 7th grader and practice is today so off he goes!


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## Mystery Train (Sep 17, 2018)

Speed said:


> Thank you for the suggestion. In his evaluation the coach said he would like my son to be a captain but he’s inconsistent in this play. I think I know why with this happening on the field. So you would just have him talk to him no parent present correct?


Agreed with @jpeter 100%.  In this scenario, it is good practice for your son to have this conversation with the coach without the parents present.  

It does depend on the age of the kid and also the strength of the relationship between the coach and player, and of course, the topic of the conversation.  But whenever you can get the player to bring issues to the coach one-on-one, it is good practice for all sorts of life situations.  When my DD was 11 or 12 and had issues to discuss with a coach, she sometimes asked for us to be present.  As she got older, we stayed away and let her handle those conversations 100% (although one of us will always be across the field or in the stands watching when she talks to him to make sure the conversation actually DOES happen).  We would let her rehearse what she was going to say with us, and we'd give her suggestions and talking points.  In this case, your son should describe the situation, the history, and the affect it has on him in terms of playing/trusting this other player.  If the coach is worth anything at all, he'll recognize that his team "captain" is not behaving like a leader and use it as an opportunity to teach the other kid better leadership qualities.  And he'll have a ton of respect for your kid for having the maturity to address the problem and find solutions.  

As a parent, stepping aside and letting them have these conversations is very hard to do.  It's hard because often they are nervous and don't end up saying everything they intended to say, and the coach doesn't get the full picture because of that.  And I always wanted to jump in and "help" clear it up or advocate for my kid when the conversation didn't have the desired effect.  I have to remind myself that this is just practice for real life, and she's not going to have me around to clarify things to her professors in college or her boss at work.  Even when the conversations don't go as planned, it's a great opportunity to grow and build confidence for the next time.  Good luck to your son!


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## MWN (Sep 17, 2018)

Speed said:


> Lots of good advice here and I now am seeking input.
> 
> I have a B05 flight 2 player. Old coach left after all players signed on and we have a new great coach. History with the old coach is he allowed players to cuss each other out on field (f bombs and the works) for poor performance, parents mirroring player behavior to point of ejections from field and we could never see eye to eye on it. Said they needed to work it out in the field and would be better players/team for it. It was first year of club for us and I saw my sons play deteriorate before my eyes. Coach and I agreed to disagree. His team his rules. I refused to have my son quit because it is a life lesson and sometimes life really stinks. But overall was not a positive experience. A friend of ours pulled her kid from the team.
> 
> ...


My math tells me that 05=U14=8th graders.  My experience tells me that when my son was a U14 he played on a U14 team (same age), when he was a U15 he played up 1 year on a U16 team, and now he is a U16 playing up 2 years on a U18 team ... so, I can confirm that its not unusual for boys to curse on the field and be A-Holes if the coach allows/encourages it and it only gets worse the older they get.  At a certain point however, the culture of the team is such that a players failure does not result in his teammates cursing at him unless it is a repeated problem. 

If your son has a problem with another teammate and has the balls to curse the kid out on the field then he has the balls to handle this himself with his coach.  Stay out of it and let the boys and coach handle it amongst themselves.

A good Captain or teammate "constructively criticizes" and builds his teammates up.


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## Messi>CR7 (Sep 17, 2018)

Yeah, let him handle it on his own first.  In just a few years he will need to go on an interview by himself for a summer job.  A couple of years after that he will likely need to interview for a college.  Kids (and adults) these days tend to text/email more and don't get as many practices to express themselves in person.

You can also learn a lot about the coach by how he handles the situation after a conversation with your son.


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## Simisoccerfan (Sep 17, 2018)

I recommend that you find another team at another club.  The type of behavior is not the norm and sounds quite toxic.


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## mirage (Sep 17, 2018)

Speed said:


> .........I don’t know if this is the norm for Boys teams?? Didn’t have a brother, have a daughter who plays premier but they still are not a-holes to each other.


So mom, I know many have said its not normal - and I agree - but its not uncommon either.

We had a situation with our younger kid at U12 or 13, where couple of the players thought they were just a bad as$ and would not take any directions from the coach.  They purposely called the coach by a wrong name and often would just pickup and leave after the match without going through the line.  Complete disrespect for the game and others.  The coach kicked these players out.  Told them to go find another team.

During that time, our kid was picked on for doing what the coach told him to do by these players.  When our kid bit upset, we found out why.  Our remedy was for him to tell the those players to "f-off" and for him to deal with it however he want to. He dealt with it and it stopped because he started to ignore them completely and didn't take their sh*t.  Besides, they got kicked off some time later anyway...  Our kid never talked to the coach and we never got involved.

MWN is absolutely right about cussing and language on the team (or with their friends).  Nothing any of us have not heard of before.  Its not just soccer, its any sports for boys.  The only thing we told our kids is that know when its okay and when its not okay to use different phraseology.

Also, this age is quite important years for the boys as they transition to young men.  They need to experience and deal with all sorts of different situations - good and bad.

Also don't listen to the forum responses too much.  We all have a different situation and assumptions.  We maybe waaaaay off and still sound very logical and credible.  It just may not fit your situation.


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## El Clasico (Sep 17, 2018)

Are you sure we are getting the full story here?  There is a lot here that doesn't make sense to me.

Also, you may want to move him down a flight. He will be a stronger player relative to his peers and at that level, the boys just want to have fun and aren't that concerned when a kid plays like sh*t.


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## Speed (Sep 17, 2018)

Mystery Train said:


> Agreed with @jpeter 100%.  In this scenario, it is good practice for your son to have this conversation with the coach without the parents present.
> 
> It does depend on the age of the kid and also the strength of the relationship between the coach and player, and of course, the topic of the conversation.  But whenever you can get the player to bring issues to the coach one-on-one, it is good practice for all sorts of life situations.  When my DD was 11 or 12 and had issues to discuss with a coach, she sometimes asked for us to be present.  As she got older, we stayed away and let her handle those conversations 100% (although one of us will always be across the field or in the stands watching when she talks to him to make sure the conversation actually DOES happen).  We would let her rehearse what she was going to say with us, and we'd give her suggestions and talking points.  In this case, your son should describe the situation, the history, and the affect it has on him in terms of playing/trusting this other player.  If the coach is worth anything at all, he'll recognize that his team "captain" is not behaving like a leader and use it as an opportunity to teach the other kid better leadership qualities.  And he'll have a ton of respect for your kid for having the maturity to address the problem and find solutions.
> 
> ...


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## outside! (Sep 19, 2018)

The coach mentioned inconsistent play. Is he working on skills outside of practice? Does he take privates? Does he juggle? If not, it might not be a bad idea to start. If the coach saw an improvement in play due to better skills, he might choose a new team captain.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Sep 19, 2018)

Let the kids figure it out.  Your son should understand that he needs to have a certain level of rapport with the players before he can yell at them to do things.  A player needs to work hard and be a leader on the field before they can tell other players (in a respectful way) what to do.  I would get annoyed if I had a weaker player on my team telling me what to do.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Sep 19, 2018)

Speed said:


> Thank you for the suggestion. In his evaluation the coach said he would like my son to be a captain but he’s inconsistent in this play. I think I know why with this happening on the field. So you would just have him talk to him no parent present correct?


Are you suggesting that the inconsistent play is because of the coach and other players?  I would never accept my kids using the coach or other players as an excuse for their inconsistent play.  The player alone should own how they play on the field...everything else around them (crazy parents/coach/players) is out of their control.  Mental toughness is about learning how to block out distractions that might affect one's game.


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## Speed (Sep 19, 2018)

outside! said:


> The coach mentioned inconsistent play. Is he working on skills outside of practice? Does he take privates? Does he juggle? If not, it might not be a bad idea to start. If the coach saw an improvement in play due to better skills, he might choose a new team captain.





outside! said:


> The coach mentioned inconsistent play. Is he working on skills outside of practice? Does he take privates? Does he juggle? If not, it might not be a bad idea to start. If the coach saw an improvement in play due to better skills, he might choose a new team captain.


I should clarify when he said inconsistent play he meant that he isn’t sure which attitude would show up...the let’s go get them and crush them player or the quieter Let’s play the game and not be a leader type.  My kid is actually one of the better players on the team.....he’s faster and more technical skilled. He’s small though. The captain is the rough and tumble linebacker type. But slow as molasses and technically not strong. We do outside training at TOCA. My kid only cares that a team captain acts like one.


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## Speed (Sep 19, 2018)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Are you suggesting that the inconsistent play is because of the coach and other players?  I would never accept my kids using the coach or other players as an excuse for their inconsistent play.  The player alone should own how they play on the field...everything else around them (crazy parents/coach/players) is out of their control.  Mental toughness is about learning how to block out distractions that might affect one's game.


See my response below. And I get what you are saying about excuse but it’s part of the maturation process. Kids can block that out as they mature in the game. He’s not inconsistent in his play so much as in the attitude that he brings. He doesn’t bring a bad attitude, more like the coach isn’t sure which player is showing up—the let’s win this game and he’s firing everyone up (Which is when he wants to make him the team captain) or the quieter just getting the job done—not firing everyone up player.


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## Speed (Sep 19, 2018)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Let the kids figure it out.  Your son should understand that he needs to have a certain level of rapport with the players before he can yell at them to do things.  A player needs to work hard and be a leader on the field before they can tell other players (in a respectful way) what to do.  I would get annoyed if I had a weaker player on my team telling me what to do.


Thanks for your reply. He is not a weaker player. Technically he is more skilled, he’s faster, has a quicker recovery etc. The directive is from the coach who is TELLING the players to communicate to each other what they are doing wrong.


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## Not_that_Serious (Sep 19, 2018)

Simisoccerfan said:


> I recommend that you find another team at another club.  The type of behavior is not the norm and sounds quite toxic.


At that age group it isnt "normal" for all the kids to behave this way but NOT uncommon for a few "alphas" to behave this way. This isnt just a Club issue, it goes down to rec and all in-between. At this age kids are going through big hormone changes. I have seen many kids quit around this age (at all levels of play) due to "bullying". It can be a fine line between what some think is bullying and some kids just being jerks. If you have a team full of jerks, chemistry isnt going to be good so no point on allowing that atmosphere to exist. Having one appointed jerk is also nonsense. Kids need to also learn to defend themselves with their words. Once they establish they wont take being talked to a certain way, kids tend to dial it back. A player also needs to be able to talk to the coach and tell them how they feel. Same advice I tell my kid about grades or kids being disruptive in school - YOU TALK TO YOUR TEACHER. Can't do everything for them. I only step in when the figure in charge isnt correcting something I feel isnt helping my kid develop. At u13-14 kids should not need to be "joysticked", they should be able to warm-up and even figure out a starting line-up on their own.  At some of our practices we have all tiers playing together and you can get some real alpha types, so I often tell the lower tier kids not to let them be verbally dominated. They will dominate them physically, but they should stand their ground...especially if/when insulted. Keepers can get the worse of it at times. My kid is a keeper and my advice to him was to tell them to "kick rocks" & throw the gloves at them and tell them to keep and see if they can do better. I've heard him tell kids some funny stuff that makes them shut up quickly. The kids I have seen quit tend to be the real quiet kids with good manners - often ones who have never been taught it is okay to defend yourself. Hate when kids like that quit (who doesnt like a good kid?), but no point playing if you are not having fun. First let the kid figure it out, talk to the coach on his own, then see what happens. Get involved by asking the coach questions AFTER the player gets feedback from the coach - if are still unclear of what needs to be done. Kids at this age are also not the best at relaying information and tend to leave out a lot of details.


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## timbuck (Sep 19, 2018)

I think this thread begs the question -  "At what age and level of play is a permanent team captain a good idea?"

05 Boys are in 7th/8th grade.  A "fun" age for any gender.  You start to see "Alpha" personalities and bullying become a little more pronounced.  And if a coach picks the captain, you may get whispers of "that kid is his favorite.  I don't know why.  He's not that great."  (both from players and parents).
My 07 daughter was picked to be her teams captain last year.  I was not in favor of making a 10 year girl a "captain."  She's a bit bossy and more aggressive than the rest on her team.  She was new to the team last year.  A girl who had been on the team for a few years (who is a great player) was bummed out and cried that she wasn't a captain.  Coach wound up naming both of them as captains for the year.  We had to really try to teach her how to try and lead in a positive way with actions and not words.  She wasn't ready for it. And her teammates weren't ready to be yelled at by a friend.
And I don't think a "team vote" on captains prior to high school is correct either.  It becomes a popularity contest and can cause division among the team.  

Not sure on boys.  They probably have less sensitivity on this kind of thing.  But I do think it is a team-by-team basis on naming permanent captains.  

(I was named team captain of our school ski team back in high school.  My first year on the team as a junior.  A kid who had been on the team since his freshman year and now a senior was really upset that he didn't get named.  He couldn't ski his way out of a paper bag and was a bit shy.  I told him he could have it.  I just wanted to get a chance to ski every day after school).


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## younothat (Sep 19, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I think this thread begs the question -  "At what age and level of play is a permanent team captain a good idea?"
> 
> 05 Boys are in 7th/8th grade.  A "fun" age for any gender.  You start to see "Alpha" personalities and bullying become a little more pronounced.  And if a coach picks the captain, you may get whispers of "that kid is his favorite.  I don't know why.  He's not that great."  (both from players and parents).
> My 07 daughter was picked to be her teams captain last year.  I was not in favor of making a 10 year girl a "captain."  She's a bit bossy and more aggressive than the rest on her team.  She was new to the team last year.  A girl who had been on the team for a few years (who is a great player) was bummed out and cried that she wasn't a captain.  Coach wound up naming both of them as captains for the year.  We had to really try to teach her how to try and lead in a positive way with actions and not words.  She wasn't ready for it. And her teammates weren't ready to be yelled at by a friend.
> ...


My U16/17 son will tell you he prefers earning the right to be captain & rotating among players who have the support of the team & coach. 

Some of them might only captain for a single game while other will go on a streak for x games.. Injuries, performance, training attendance, and player relations can all be a factor for changing that week or not but its good that  more players get captain experience.  Sometimes a coach will mention the player of the game or effort player of the game and the captain can nominate those people or recommend them for the next game for example, my son has done this and teammates really appreciate that.


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