# Young Parents: Why youth soccer should be your last resort



## oh canada (Jan 5, 2023)

Another month, another soccer scandal. All sports have the occasional drama, but why does this sport, especially soccer in the USA, seemingly have 10x the amount of issues as other sports?

Well, it all starts at U6, in the pay-for-play USA club scene. In a sport that has no objective criteria for determining who's better than whom, parents with big egos, white-collar jobs, and the ability to spend countless hours at the fields and up the coaches' arses. The clubs are hyper-focused on $$, branding, and growth, and the good ol' boy network is deeply entrenched with testosterone, favors, winks, and quid pro quos. Nepotism, bribes, blackmale, discrimination, abuse...from FIFA to US Soccer to MLS/NWSL to college campuses to CalSouth to Surf (and other clubs) to AYSO, and all the media/ranking companies that perpetuate the charade. It all drips with filth. It may be the one sector where you find more ugliness than Capitol Hill, with car dealerships running a distant third. And, other youth sports farther down the chain.

Friends know I've had three kids go through the soccer system and achieve their personal goals--college etc--so, no regrets here. But, I'm often asked for advice about getting their little tykes started in soccer. Ten-Fifteen years ago, my answer was different. Now, I tell them, "try every other team and individual sport first, and if your kid hates every other one, then consider soccer. Because the corruption, the cost, the time commitment, the injury risks, the crazy parents, the subjectivity of the sport, and the potential upsides, are worse than any other athletic endeavor." Soccer makes my beloved hockey look like, well, child's play. The beautiful game? Wisdom has me thinking otherwise.


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## toucan (Jan 5, 2023)

Everyone complains about the weather.  But nobody does anything about it.

When somebody figures out how to get free coaches, free fields, free lights, free uniforms, free insurance and free referees, then I promise to listen to their latest pay-to-play rant.

And if you don't like youth soccer, I suggest you move to cheer, dance, tennis or baseball, where drama is expelled, and the quality of mercy is not strained, but droppeth as the gentle rain upon the ground.


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## Carlsbad7 (Jan 5, 2023)

oh canada said:


> Another month, another soccer scandal. All sports have the occasional drama, but why does this sport, especially soccer in the USA, seemingly have 10x the amount of issues as other sports?
> 
> Well, it all starts at U6, in the pay-for-play USA club scene. In a sport that has no objective criteria for determining who's better than whom, parents with big egos, white-collar jobs, and the ability to spend countless hours at the fields and up the coaches' arses. The clubs are hyper-focused on $$, branding, and growth, and the good ol' boy network is deeply entrenched with testosterone, favors, winks, and quid pro quos. Nepotism, bribes, blackmale, discrimination, abuse...from FIFA to US Soccer to MLS/NWSL to college campuses to CalSouth to Surf (and other clubs) to AYSO, and all the media/ranking companies that perpetuate the charade. It all drips with filth. It may be the one sector where you find more ugliness than Capitol Hill, with car dealerships running a distant third. And, other youth sports farther down the chain.
> 
> Friends know I've had three kids go through the soccer system and achieve their personal goals--college etc--so, no regrets here. But, I'm often asked for advice about getting their little tykes started in soccer. Ten-Fifteen years ago, my answer was different. Now, I tell them, "try every other team and individual sport first, and if your kid hates every other one, then consider soccer. Because the corruption, the cost, the time commitment, the injury risks, the crazy parents, the subjectivity of the sport, and the potential upsides, are worse than any other athletic endeavor." Soccer makes my beloved hockey look like, well, child's play. The beautiful game? Wisdom has me thinking otherwise.


What I think is "funny" is that with Soccer there are no greener grass options. From top to bottom AYSO to Professional the stupid drama never ends.

The worse part is the higher up the chain you go the less you want to know/participate.


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## Jamisfoes (Jan 5, 2023)

LOL you guys think tennis is easy? You have no idea. Soccer is a cake walk compared to tennis.


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## oh canada (Jan 5, 2023)

Jamisfoes said:


> LOL you guys think tennis is easy? You have no idea. Soccer is a cake walk compared to tennis.


easy to figure out which player is better than the other - scoreboard


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## Grace T. (Jan 5, 2023)

oh canada said:


> easy to figure out which player is better than the other - scoreboard


Cheer? Ice skating? Gymnastics?

no actually my former sport, equestrian, is. Most expensive and the horse actually does most of the work.


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## oh canada (Jan 5, 2023)

toucan said:


> Everyone complains about the weather.  But nobody does anything about it.
> 
> When somebody figures out how to get free coaches, free fields, free lights, free uniforms, free insurance and free referees, then I promise to listen to their latest pay-to-play rant.
> 
> And if you don't like youth soccer, I suggest you move to cheer, dance, tennis or baseball, where drama is expelled, and the quality of mercy is not strained, but droppeth as the gentle rain upon the ground.


personal experience with baseball, tennis. nowhere near as bad as soccer. cheer and dance i can't comment, but they are not apples to apples with other youth sports.


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## oh canada (Jan 5, 2023)

Grace T. said:


> Cheer? Ice skating? Gymnastics?
> 
> no actually my former sport, equestrian, is. Most expensive and the horse actually does most of the work.


ice skating i can hire the exact coach i want to teach my kid and fire that coach whenever i want. and if your kid can do a triple axle and my kid can't, i know she's better. gymnastics the same.


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## toucan (Jan 5, 2023)

oh canada said:


> personal experience with baseball, tennis. nowhere near as bad as soccer. cheer and dance i can't comment, but they are not apples to apples with other youth sports.


I'm pretty sure baseball and tennis are pay-to-play.  Yet you don't complain about their model.


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## Grace T. (Jan 5, 2023)

oh canada said:


> personal experience with baseball, tennis. nowhere near as bad as soccer. cheer and dance i can't comment, but they are not apples to apples with other youth sports.


I think baseball is slightly less offensive because it doesn’t have as big of a crazy pay to play structure and little league is slightly less dysfunctional than ayso. The parents though are much worse than soccer parents as famously set out in the bat dad South Park episode. It might also depend on the position as pitchers have it much much worse than even soccer goalkeepers and the risk of repetitive injury is so high

gridiron football is spared only because it’s such a limited play season, players can jump in late and can be relatively unskilled in most positions (size being most important), and it’s school based so the parent craziness is somewhat checked. But by positions the qbs have it the worst of all. As Eric has written in the times, they are literally having to hop schools around in a quest to get playtime.


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## Grace T. (Jan 5, 2023)

oh canada said:


> ice skating i can hire the exact coach i want to teach my kid and fire that coach whenever i want. and if your kid can do a triple axle and my kid can't, i know she's better. gymnastics the same.


At the highest levels both are at the whim of the respective Olympic federations. Hence the abuse scandals. And the question isn’t whether your girl can do the triple axle and mind can’t. The question is whether yours is better than mine. It’s much better to be under the thumb of the pat to play system than the tyranny of the national federations.


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## Jamisfoes (Jan 5, 2023)

oh canada said:


> easy to figure out which player is better than the other - scoreboard


True. But you need to deal with kids who cheat on line calls. And kids needing to be home schooled to achieve D1 level. Tournaments are at least a 5 hour ordeal and that's if you lose in the first round.


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## oh canada (Jan 5, 2023)

toucan said:


> I'm pretty sure baseball and tennis are pay-to-play.  Yet you don't complain about their model.


it's not just about pay-to-play. read the post. one of the unique things about soccer is that it has no reliably identifiable objective player-evaluation criteria to shut the mouths and the pocketbooks of the bully-parents. ie, "a kid has a .345 average and can throw the ball 85mph and doesn't have any errors in the field." That makes the sport much more susceptible (and attractive) to the parents (and coaches) who are willing and able to demand playing time, awards, recognition, not based on merit, but on name (Reyna), relationships (older siblings), parent-commitment (team managers), nepotism (coaches' and club execs kids), and $$ (annual fundraisers).

Reyna's mom is a perfect example of this entitled parent behavior, even at the top levels of US Soccer.


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## Cruzer (Jan 5, 2023)

All competitive travel team sports suffer the same issues stated above. Some are a little better than others. Individual sports have a different set of issues but still, they have issues.
Find a sport your kid likes and is good at. Hopefully, they play it through high school, maybe college. But try not to burn them out or else you risk it all. Good luck.


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## oh canada (Jan 5, 2023)

Jamisfoes said:


> True. But you need to deal with kids who cheat on line calls. And kids needing to be home schooled to achieve D1 level. Tournaments are at least a 5 hour ordeal and that's if you lose in the first round.


Assume you watched the Williams' sisters movie? Their father made the smart decision to keep them out of tournaments till they were pro-level. Smart choice.  Good flick btw, even though we now know that Will Smith is as crazy as some soccer parents.


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## Grace T. (Jan 5, 2023)

oh canada said:


> it's not just about pay-to-play. read the post. one of the unique things about soccer is that it has no reliably identifiable objective player-evaluation criteria to shut the mouths and the pocketbooks of the bully-parents. ie, "a kid has a .345 average and can throw the ball 85mph and doesn't have any errors in the field." That makes the sport much more susceptible (and attractive) to the parents (and coaches) who are willing and able to demand playing time, awards, recognition, not based on merit, but on name (Reyna), relationships (older siblings), parent-commitment (team managers), nepotism (coaches' and club execs kids), and $$ (annual fundraisers).
> 
> Reyna's mom is a perfect example of this entitled parent behavior, even at the top levels of US Soccer.


This is a good point but the soccernomics guys point out the one thing that really matters is goals for. It’s why defenders and gks don’t get paid as much and defenders would be paid pittance but for their scarcity. It’s the same as in baseball: there are lots of criteria you can evaluate a player on (which ones do you pick and how much weight do you give them) but other than the pitcher as money ball points out the main thing that matters is how often they get on base. It’s better too than some sports with an artistry component such as dance cheer ice skating or gymnastics which is entirely subjective

while certainly among the worst in the aggregate, I really don’t think soccer has anything on the arbitrariness of dance gymnastics ice skating or cheer. Baseball parents are worse. Tennis has a more brutal competition expense and time commitment to become elite (my goddaughter just dropped because of the time commitment). Gridiron football is certainly worse on the body. Horseback riding is the worst of the worst for expenses. And qb and pitcher are more brutal position wise than even a soccer gk (as I said qbs are literally changing schools miles away for playtime, and pitchers are having to undergo surgery).  Soccer is horrible but even in the aggregate it’s not the worst…I most certainly rather have my kid play soccer than be a competitive figure skater, qb or like me cross country equestrian.


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## VanMan (Jan 5, 2023)

oh canada said:


> it's not just about pay-to-play. read the post. one of the unique things about soccer is that it has no reliably identifiable objective player-evaluation criteria to shut the mouths and the pocketbooks of the bully-parents. ie, "a kid has a .345 average and can throw the ball 85mph and doesn't have any errors in the field." That makes the sport much more susceptible (and attractive) to the parents (and coaches) who are willing and able to demand playing time, awards, recognition, not based on merit, but on name (Reyna), relationships (older siblings), parent-commitment (team managers), nepotism (coaches' and club execs kids), and $$ (annual fundraisers).
> 
> Reyna's mom is a perfect example of this entitled parent behavior, even at the top levels of US Soccer.


Baseball has the same set of issues as soccer from little/pony through high end travel ball.  It's pay to play, just the same.  Hitting lessons, fielding lessons, pitching lessons, catcher's clinics... it's non stop.   

There are so many dimensions in baseball that, other than the obvious outliers on both ends, it's way more difficult to grade out the kids in between so there's tons of room for subjective interpretation.

And the enviornment is worse because almost every dad played and has some story about how they would've gone pro if not for the freak accident in the middle school cafeteria that caused them to blow out their ass sphincter which made it so they couldn't throw anymore.  So not only are they doing the living vicariously through their kid routine, they're trying to get in the mix in all sorts of ways soccer parents don't... pretty rare to hear a soccer mom tell their daughter where the plant foot goes, but you'll here baseball dads get into how high their kid's back elbow should be when they're hitting.


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## Orangeteam (Jan 5, 2023)

my boss was a profession baseball player.  His oldest son is a current pro. 
He tells me stories all the time of  "family section" of the games and how crazy families are. 
He continually tells me that baseball has just as many crazies as soccer.


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## crush (Jan 6, 2023)

oh canada said:


> personal experience with baseball, tennis. nowhere near as bad as soccer. cheer and dance i can't comment, but they are not apples to apples with other youth sports.


Yup. If you can hit the baseball, you play. I did know a guy who cheated during tennis and seem to get all the close calls on his side. Soccer, it's a selection contest and you best better select the right club and Doc to get what your looking for. I got this soccer advice years ago but it was too late with soccer, my kid just loves to play the great game


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## crush (Jan 6, 2023)

VanMan said:


> Baseball has the same set of issues as soccer from little/pony through high end travel ball.  It's pay to play, just the same.  Hitting lessons, fielding lessons, pitching lessons, catcher's clinics... it's non stop.
> 
> There are so many dimensions in baseball that, other than the obvious outliers on both ends, it's way more difficult to grade out the kids in between so there's tons of room for subjective interpretation.
> 
> And the enviornment is worse because almost every dad played and has some story about how they would've gone pro if not for the freak accident in the middle school cafeteria that caused them to blow out their ass sphincter which made it so they couldn't throw anymore.  So not only are they doing the living vicariously through their kid routine, they're trying to get in the mix in all sorts of ways soccer parents don't... pretty rare to hear a soccer mom tell their daughter where the plant foot goes, but you'll here baseball dads get into how high their kid's back elbow should be when they're hitting.


I played baseball and never went through what I saw in club soccer. One of my pals made it all the way and my other pal played minors and never got called up. However, that was back in the 70s. I got my son on a Mustang team in Pony league and he got coach Dave and his two sons + some of his travel ball players and their fathers who were complete assholes. You see, my son cried when he struck out or got out on the bases. Coach Dave thought this was a championship team until Trevor let a ball go through his legs with two outs and bases loaded in the bottom of the 6th during playoffs. We lost and Trevor and my son never played the game again because of Coach Dave and his yelling & screaming and his way too serious coaching. I blame it 99% on coach Dave and 1% on me for enrolling him in Pony instead of Little League. I kick myself all the time. My son had all the tools to go pro in baseball but he lacked the mental part of not letting the game bring you down or the other kids bullying you all day. Little punks learned from their fathers  Also, you can't hide in baseball like you can in soccer.


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## crush (Jan 6, 2023)

toucan said:


> Everyone complains about the weather.  But nobody does anything about it.
> 
> When somebody figures out how to get free coaches, free fields, free lights, free uniforms, free insurance and free referees, then I promise to listen to their latest pay-to-play rant.
> 
> And if you don't like youth soccer, I suggest you move to cheer, dance, tennis or baseball, where drama is expelled, and the quality of mercy is not strained, but droppeth as the gentle rain upon the ground.


It depends where you live regarding weather complaints. We need to find a way for all kids to play futbol for free and have free coaching, free fields, free, free and more free all the way to the pitch. I'm working on a plan but it will take time before it comes to reality. I hope to do it in my lifetime. My first order of business though is to watch over both of my wife's mom & dad. Alzheimer's is a bitch and when both set's of parents get it, well you have to step up and change the way you thought life would be like at this stage of the game. Once their safe and taken care of with excellent care and love, then I will look to help start orphanage. I can't share the dream yet, but it's closer to reality then free soccer. I see free soccer in my dreams as well but first things first. To be 100% honest toucan, I thought I would be wealthy right now and I would just donate my winnings to some foster care group and not my time.  Me and wife's parents would travel together on cruise ships and have all this fun travel. Nope, God wants me to actually give up my time and do the work.


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## crush (Jan 6, 2023)

oh canada said:


> Another month, another soccer scandal. All sports have the occasional drama, but why does this sport, especially soccer in the USA, seemingly have 10x the amount of issues as other sports?
> 
> Well, it all starts at U6, in the pay-for-play USA club scene. In a sport that has no objective criteria for determining who's better than whom, parents with big egos, white-collar jobs, and the ability to spend countless hours at the fields and up the coaches' arses. The clubs are hyper-focused on $$, branding, and growth, and the good ol' boy network is deeply entrenched with testosterone, favors, winks, and quid pro quos. Nepotism, bribes, blackmale, discrimination, abuse...from FIFA to US Soccer to MLS/NWSL to college campuses to CalSouth to Surf (and other clubs) to AYSO, and all the media/ranking companies that perpetuate the charade. It all drips with filth. It may be the one sector where you find more ugliness than Capitol Hill, with car dealerships running a distant third. And, other youth sports farther down the chain.
> 
> Friends know I've had three kids go through the soccer system and achieve their personal goals--college etc--so, no regrets here. But, I'm often asked for advice about getting their little tykes started in soccer. Ten-Fifteen years ago, my answer was different. Now, I tell them, "try every other team and individual sport first, and if your kid hates every other one, then consider soccer. Because the corruption, the cost, the time commitment, the injury risks, the crazy parents, the subjectivity of the sport, and the potential upsides, are worse than any other athletic endeavor." Soccer makes my beloved hockey look like, well, child's play. The beautiful game? Wisdom has me thinking otherwise.


We all see who the ass kissers are in this sport. It's funny to see some of them wipe it off their nose and act like they got what they earned through hard work only. I can and I should write a book about the "The Art of Ass Kissing in Youth Soccer." Some Docs love it when parents worship their ass. We all saw it with our won eyes. No amount of denial will help those who can't see because their head is up so much ass their blocked from a clear view of what we all see with our eyes. The rich ass kisser is impossible to compete with. Good luck parents.


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## Primetime (Jan 6, 2023)

oh canada said:


> Another month, another soccer scandal. All sports have the occasional drama, but why does this sport, especially soccer in the USA, seemingly have 10x the amount of issues as other sports?
> 
> Well, it all starts at U6, in the pay-for-play USA club scene. In a sport that has no objective criteria for determining who's better than whom, parents with big egos, white-collar jobs, and the ability to spend countless hours at the fields and up the coaches' arses. The clubs are hyper-focused on $$, branding, and growth, and the good ol' boy network is deeply entrenched with testosterone, favors, winks, and quid pro quos. Nepotism, bribes, blackmale, discrimination, abuse...from FIFA to US Soccer to MLS/NWSL to college campuses to CalSouth to Surf (and other clubs) to AYSO, and all the media/ranking companies that perpetuate the charade. It all drips with filth. It may be the one sector where you find more ugliness than Capitol Hill, with car dealerships running a distant third. And, other youth sports farther down the chain.
> 
> Friends know I've had three kids go through the soccer system and achieve their personal goals--college etc--so, no regrets here. But, I'm often asked for advice about getting their little tykes started in soccer. Ten-Fifteen years ago, my answer was different. Now, I tell them, "try every other team and individual sport first, and if your kid hates every other one, then consider soccer. Because the corruption, the cost, the time commitment, the injury risks, the crazy parents, the subjectivity of the sport, and the potential upsides, are worse than any other athletic endeavor." Soccer makes my beloved hockey look like, well, child's play. The beautiful game? Wisdom has me thinking otherwise.


Eh.   I thought soccer was expensive till my kid started playing Club Volleyball.  Turns out soccer was pocket change in comparison.  5x-6x not including travel cost which there way more of.   You talk about soccer clubs and leagues being in cahoots lol,  VB has the book on it.  People on here complain about $12 to park at silverlakes, lmfao.   Try $20 parking (with no re-entry) plus $10-$15 venue entrance fees per person with no outside food allowed.   Family of 4 is in for about $200+ for the weekend tourney just to stand and watch your DD play in a loud ass crowded gym with no seating.  Makes that corner flag beach chair seem like courtside at staples center.   I hear complaints about referees, well in volleyball the players from the other team you just played or are about to play are the AR’s so as you can imagine it’s super quality officiating, Smh.  Much like other sport forget about playing at a high level without an ultra expensive private trainer (2-3 sessions a week).  Double/triple what a private soccer trainer charges.   Thought I’d be super smart and have the other kid play Golf, genius way to save money, I know.  I traded in a $100 a month soccer coach for a $120 a lesson (twice a week) golf coach.   Tack on course fees and equipment and I’m in for about $1500+ a month there.  Close to What I was paying the whole year for his Flight 2 soccer team fees.  But at least In golf much like running and swimming your success or ability is not subject to someone’s Opinion.  The scorecard and clock tell the truth.  Forget about the fact that at least to coach in club soccer you have to get some kind of licensing and training courses to get qualified.  These other sports literally have zero experience and  certification needed.  So long story short having seen both sides of a few sports in depth, Yes please give me club soccer all day everyday and twice on Sunday’s.


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## SurFutbol (Jan 6, 2023)

oh canada said:


> Another month, another soccer scandal. All sports have the occasional drama, but why does this sport, especially soccer in the USA, seemingly have 10x the amount of issues as other sports?
> 
> Well, it all starts at U6, in the pay-for-play USA club scene. In a sport that has no objective criteria for determining who's better than whom, parents with big egos, white-collar jobs, and the ability to spend countless hours at the fields and up the coaches' arses. The clubs are hyper-focused on $$, branding, and growth, and the good ol' boy network is deeply entrenched with testosterone, favors, winks, and quid pro quos. Nepotism, bribes, blackmale, discrimination, abuse...from FIFA to US Soccer to MLS/NWSL to college campuses to CalSouth to Surf (and other clubs) to AYSO, and all the media/ranking companies that perpetuate the charade. It all drips with filth. It may be the one sector where you find more ugliness than Capitol Hill, with car dealerships running a distant third. And, other youth sports farther down the chain.
> 
> Friends know I've had three kids go through the soccer system and achieve their personal goals--college etc--so, no regrets here. But, I'm often asked for advice about getting their little tykes started in soccer. Ten-Fifteen years ago, my answer was different. Now, I tell them, "try every other team and individual sport first, and if your kid hates every other one, then consider soccer. Because the corruption, the cost, the time commitment, the injury risks, the crazy parents, the subjectivity of the sport, and the potential upsides, are worse than any other athletic endeavor." Soccer makes my beloved hockey look like, well, child's play. The beautiful game? Wisdom has me thinking otherwise.


Wow, the self-pity in you is really off the hook.  Soccer is no worse than any other sport, you just think that because you don't have the same involvement in other sports.  Youth soccer can be a great experience for anyone who doesn't have parents with a bad attitude.


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## Dargle (Jan 6, 2023)

This is a West Coast bias thread.  Lacrosse is just as subjective, more violent, more elitist and entitled parents, more expensive gear, and full of all of the bad behavior you describe in soccer.

For one example, see this article about a parent lawsuit, filed as a RICO case (which is the statute popularly known for being used to take down the mafia and FIFA most recently), over a kid's playing time in lacrosse









						The Roots Of A Lacrosse Parent's Infamous Lawsuit Over His Son's Playing Time
					

VideoDallas attorney William Munck has taken some high-profile public relations hits over a federal lawsuit he filed March 25 against the Dallas Lacrosse Academy and its leaders and coaches. Munck is upset over what he sees as their responsibility for unfairly keeping his son on his high school...




					www.forbes.com


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## SurFutbol (Jan 6, 2023)

crush said:


> We all see who the ass kissers are in this sport. It's funny to see some of them wipe it off their nose and act like they got what they earned through hard work only. I can and I should write a book about the "The Art of Ass Kissing in Youth Soccer." Some Docs love it when parents worship their ass. We all saw it with our won eyes. No amount of denial will help those who can't see because their head is up so much ass their blocked from a clear view of what we all see with our eyes. The rich ass kisser is impossible to compete with. Good luck parents.
> 
> View attachment 15319


The parents of the children who passed yours by at soccer were not brown-nosers, nor did they bribe anyone.  Show some respect for the girls who worked hard, excelled, and deserved the accolades they received.  To the extent yours did not receive those accolades, it is because she either did not deserve them or you were such an ass to decision makers that they decided she was not worth the trouble that you cause.


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## socalkdg (Jan 6, 2023)

My kid played baseball, softball, basketball, track, and soccer plus danced (was not good at dance).   Pros and cons to all of them.   Boys drove her from baseball,  the crying girls from softball,  head coach in basketball, injuries for track, soccer is what she will play in college.   

We as parents need to just pay the bills, drive them where they need to go, and try and get as many different coaches and trainers involved to get honest opinions on if our kids are any good or not.  Try different sports, let them play what they want and where they want.


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Jan 6, 2023)

Primetime said:


> Eh.   I thought soccer was expensive till my kid started playing Club Volleyball.  Turns out soccer was pocket change in comparison.  5x-6x not including travel cost which there way more of.


I was about to say... soccer is the most affordable sport I've put my kids in...  I still don't like paying it but I know what I had to pay for my older kids with other sports...  and yes some were individual sports with lots of travel so costs are high but it easily ran $10,000+/year and we weren't even in the most expensive of sports.

Soccer runs $4,000/year at the youngers and $5,000/year ish for the olders.

I know some have mentioned golf, tennis, ice skating and those can run $20,000+/year.

And this is a different universe altogether but I know a guy whose daughter does equestrian... and the horse cost $100,000... -_-

One of my buddy's kid is on travel basketball and he says $20 entrance fee every weekend PER PERSON including family to watch the kids game... I stopped complaining (to him) about the $12/car parking fee (which I think it still sucks... but I complain silently now )

All this to say, I think youth sports in general (no matter what sport) is pretty expensive in America. At least soccer has the free fully funded academy option for those at the highest levels... and also scholarships available at at the club level for those in financial need...


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## Carlsbad7 (Jan 6, 2023)

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> I was about to say... soccer is the most affordable sport I've put my kids in...  I still don't like paying it but I know what I had to pay for my older kids with other sports...  and yes some were individual sports with lots of travel so costs are high but it easily ran $10,000+/year and we weren't even in the most expensive of sports.
> 
> Soccer runs $4,000/year at the youngers and $5,000/year ish for the olders.
> 
> ...


Futsal is typically played indoors + they're starting to charge per person + per day to watch the games. (Probabaly because of the basketball / volleyball overlap reguarding courts) This is on top of the hotel + parking fees that events make $$$ off.

Personally I'd rather events just provide x number of wristbands per player for spectators when teams signup to play. Much less hassle.


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## aong cangkol (Jan 6, 2023)

Dargle said:


> This is a West Coast bias thread.  Lacrosse is just as subjective, more violent, more elitist and entitled parents, more expensive gear, and full of all of the bad behavior you describe in soccer.
> 
> For one example, see this article about a parent lawsuit, filed as a RICO case (which is the statute popularly known for being used to take down the mafia and FIFA most recently), over a kid's playing time in lacrosse
> 
> ...


Definitely a "soccer parent" bias thread. Soccer is one of the most popular youth sport for a reason. It is easy to start (you cannot play tennis until at least have some lessons) and relatively inexpensive.
I know the frustrated parents are most likely involved in ECNL, MLS Next level, but like others mentioned, other high level team sports are even more expensive and performance is just as subjective (Ice hockey, Lacrosse, Volleyball, even basketball).
Individual sports are not even a comparison. Also it is difficult for kids to have fun in individual practice. Soccer practices are actually fun.


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## Chalklines (Jan 6, 2023)

oh canada said:


> Another month, another soccer scandal. All sports have the occasional drama, but why does this sport, especially soccer in the USA, seemingly have 10x the amount of issues as other sports?
> 
> Well, it all starts at U6, in the pay-for-play USA club scene. In a sport that has no objective criteria for determining who's better than whom, parents with big egos, white-collar jobs, and the ability to spend countless hours at the fields and up the coaches' arses. The clubs are hyper-focused on $$, branding, and growth, and the good ol' boy network is deeply entrenched with testosterone, favors, winks, and quid pro quos. Nepotism, bribes, blackmale, discrimination, abuse...from FIFA to US Soccer to MLS/NWSL to college campuses to CalSouth to Surf (and other clubs) to AYSO, and all the media/ranking companies that perpetuate the charade. It all drips with filth. It may be the one sector where you find more ugliness than Capitol Hill, with car dealerships running a distant third. And, other youth sports farther down the chain.
> 
> Friends know I've had three kids go through the soccer system and achieve their personal goals--college etc--so, no regrets here. But, I'm often asked for advice about getting their little tykes started in soccer. Ten-Fifteen years ago, my answer was different. Now, I tell them, "try every other team and individual sport first, and if your kid hates every other one, then consider soccer. Because the corruption, the cost, the time commitment, the injury risks, the crazy parents, the subjectivity of the sport, and the potential upsides, are worse than any other athletic endeavor." Soccer makes my beloved hockey look like, well, child's play. The beautiful game? Wisdom has me thinking otherwise.


Nominated best post of 2023 and we're only 6 days in


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## oh canada (Jan 6, 2023)

SurFutbol said:


> Wow, the self-pity in you is really off the hook.  Soccer is no worse than any other sport, you just think that because you don't have the same involvement in other sports.  Youth soccer can be a great experience for anyone who doesn't have parents with a bad attitude.


I guess I missed the news accounts of Roger Goodell being knifed in the back by his wife's college roommate because her kid wasn't playing in the NFL. And, I missed the stories about multiple WNBA coaches sexually harrassing their players. And, I missed the reporting about all the softball and volleyball youth clubs not hiring any female coaches. And, I missed the bribery scandals in F1 racing for race locations. And, I missed the articles about youth baseball national leagues changing from one league format to a different league (DA) to a different league (ECNL) over the course of a few years. And, I missed the reports in youth hockey about how the national federation can't find high quality coaches to coach their youth national teams and scout because they require the coaches to live in Chicago and don't pay sh*t.      

Soccer is no worse? Keep your head buried in the sand. There are systemic cultural problems with this sport in the US and it's time to discuss and figure out why.


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## oh canada (Jan 6, 2023)

Dargle said:


> This is a West Coast bias thread.  Lacrosse is just as subjective, more violent, more elitist and entitled parents, more expensive gear, and full of all of the bad behavior you describe in soccer.
> 
> For one example, see this article about a parent lawsuit, filed as a RICO case (which is the statute popularly known for being used to take down the mafia and FIFA most recently), over a kid's playing time in lacrosse
> 
> ...


i can see how lacrosse could have a lot of the same subjectivity problems for player evaluation, so concede that point. But, your article is from 2014, and I haven't been reading anything over the past year about lacrosse scandals and controversy as I have about soccer - both mens and womens, pro and youth.


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## espola (Jan 6, 2023)

oh canada said:


> I guess I missed the news accounts of Roger Goodell being knifed in the back by his wife's college roommate because her kid wasn't playing in the NFL. And, I missed the stories about multiple WNBA coaches sexually harrassing their players. And, I missed the reporting about all the softball and volleyball youth clubs not hiring any female coaches. And, I missed the bribery scandals in F1 racing for race locations. And, I missed the articles about youth baseball national leagues changing from one league format to a different league (DA) to a different league (ECNL) over the course of a few years. And, I missed the reports in youth hockey about how the national federation can't find high quality coaches to coach their youth national teams and scout because they require the coaches to live in Chicago and don't pay sh*t.
> 
> Soccer is no worse? Keep your head buried in the sand. There are systemic cultural problems with this sport in the US and it's time to discuss and figure out why.


For a period of time, USSF was headed by a former non-player whose first resume item was as a waterboy at a State ODP camp, and USSF marketing was in the hands of a criminal.  I'm not suggesting that that environment caused the failure of DA, but it is worth some thought.


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## focomoso (Jan 6, 2023)

Grace T. said:


> I think baseball is slightly less offensive because it doesn’t have as big of a crazy pay to play structure and little league is slightly less dysfunctional than ayso. The parents though are much worse than soccer parents as famously set out in the bat dad South Park episode.


My son, who has been in the youth soccer grind since U6, did one season of baseball and was like, "Those parents are nuts," and never went back.


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## focomoso (Jan 6, 2023)

Dargle said:


> This is a West Coast bias thread.  Lacrosse is just as subjective, more violent, more elitist and entitled parents, more expensive gear, and full of all of the bad behavior you describe in soccer.
> 
> For one example, see this article about a parent lawsuit, filed as a RICO case (which is the statute popularly known for being used to take down the mafia and FIFA most recently), over a kid's playing time in lacrosse
> 
> ...


I know parents with kids in West-coast lacrosse and it's pretty bad here too. Maybe not filing RICO cases, but the travel and expense and parent behavior seem far worse than my experiences with soccer. And there are fewer options, so if your local club goes sour, you have to travel even farther.


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Jan 6, 2023)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Futsal is typically played indoors + they're starting to charge per person + per day to watch the games. (Probabaly because of the basketball / volleyball overlap reguarding courts) This is on top of the hotel + parking fees that events make $$$ off.
> 
> Personally I'd rather events just provide x number of wristbands per player for spectators when teams signup to play. Much less hassle.


This is true... it's like $20/day per person or $50 for the weekend or something. At least they only charged for adults where we went...
Those add up... plus parking and plus stupid stay to play hotels (I can have a whole thread on how much I hate stay to play...)


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## Carlsbad7 (Jan 7, 2023)

oh canada said:


> i can see how lacrosse could have a lot of the same subjectivity problems for player evaluation, so concede that point. But, your article is from 2014, and I haven't been reading anything over the past year about lacrosse scandals and controversy as I have about soccer - both mens and womens, pro and youth.


As a former Lacrosse player who's kid dragged them kicking and screaming into the soccer world I can say without a doubt that Soccer is way worse than LAX for the drama/nonsense.

I think it's because Lacrosse is like hockey + if you get too far out of line theres always some goon looking to put you in check. Soccer doesnt have this type of threat and worse yet rewards actions like flopping. 

Without the threat of physically being put in your place for being aweful soccer culture just escalates over time.


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## Chalklines (Jan 7, 2023)

Kids not a foward if they cant score or create scoring opertunitys. Right? Kicking the ball blindly from beyond the 18, not finishing, not passing, constantly missing the frame and constantly being off sides shouldn't need subjective interpretation. Can go on for defenders and keepers for days. Midfielders seem more difficult to gauge but it isn't rocket science. 
Maybe the problem has more to do with corruption and parent manipulation with these clubs and coaches. Just too many young coaches looking to make easy buck these days. 
After all, why is it always the wealthiest families on a team who control the coaches?


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## Chalklines (Jan 7, 2023)

crush said:


> We all see who the ass kissers are in this sport. It's funny to see some of them wipe it off their nose and act like they got what they earned through hard work only. I can and I should write a book about the "The Art of Ass Kissing in Youth Soccer." Some Docs love it when parents worship their ass. We all saw it with our won eyes. No amount of denial will help those who can't see because their head is up so much ass their blocked from a clear view of what we all see with our eyes. The rich ass kisser is impossible to compete with. Good luck parents.
> 
> View attachment 15319


Would buy this book


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## crush (Jan 7, 2023)

Chalklines said:


> Would buy this book


I will give you a signed copy bro.


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## lafalafa (Jan 7, 2023)

Soccer is approachable for most relatively inexpensive if you don't get into the club circuits too young.

Compared to other ball sports such as softball, baseball, basketball, football, volleyball you see more involvement @ the younger ages cuz it's just easier to pay, learn, and have some fun.

What goes wrong?  Adults being too competitive basically.  Instead of letting youth find their own ways, adults set expectations and just can't let the kids play without constant feedback or commenting.

Exposing youth to a variety of sports or athletic activities and letting them find the ones they like or not is the methods we used on all 3 youths which are now adults. 

Travel hockey is crazy let me tell you, youngest has a good friend that's a players and it wasn't hard to spend 15-20k a season when your traveling to Canada for tournaments.

Really it's about the fun factor for youth besides learning life skills.    Some have the best fun just playing with friends locally on a fustal or weekend team while other crave those travel tournaments, post season, hunt for championships.   

No one size fits all but remember youth is fleeting so let them have some fun and enjoy those times.


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## VanMan (Sunday at 12:37 PM)

oh canada said:


> I guess I missed the news accounts of Roger Goodell being knifed in the back by his wife's college roommate because her kid wasn't playing in the NFL. And, I missed the stories about multiple WNBA coaches sexually harrassing their players. And, I missed the reporting about all the softball and volleyball youth clubs not hiring any female coaches. And, I missed the bribery scandals in F1 racing for race locations. And, I missed the articles about youth baseball national leagues changing from one league format to a different league (DA) to a different league (ECNL) over the course of a few years. And, I missed the reports in youth hockey about how the national federation can't find high quality coaches to coach their youth national teams and scout because they require the coaches to live in Chicago and don't pay sh*t.
> 
> Soccer is no worse? Keep your head buried in the sand. There are systemic cultural problems with this sport in the US and it's time to discuss and figure out why.


Just because you haven't seen headlines doesn't mean there aren't the exact same issues in other sports.  

All sports have warts and things you have to be willing to turn up your nose at to avoid the stench.  Find the one(s) that your kid(s) enjoy (that you can afford) and do your best to stay out of the mud.

While USSF, USYS and USCS are FAR from perfect, I'd take any/all of them any day of the week over the AAU.


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## graciesdad (Monday at 6:35 AM)

All sports have issues and they are all driven by dollars and delusional parents. Whatever happened to just signing up for your local AYSO, Little League etc? This worked fine when I grew up. I played 3 sports in HS and baseball in college. This made me a well rounded athlete and person. Too much specialization at an early is not healthy. The cream and talent will always rise to the top. Plus you will save a ton of money and drama.


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## crush (Monday at 6:48 AM)

graciesdad said:


> All sports have issues and they are all driven by dollars and delusional parents. Whatever happened to just signing up for your local AYSO, Little League etc? This worked fine when I grew up. I played 3 sports in HS and baseball in college. This made me a well rounded athlete and person. Too much specialization at an early is not healthy. The cream and talent will always rise to the top. Plus you will save a ton of money and drama.


100% agree. I played AYSO, Biddy Basketball at the YMCA, ran track and played Little League. HS was all about hoops and baseball. I also played beach Volleyball, tennis, golf and I surfed when the waves were good (I almost went Pro Surfer). I tried to get my dd to play all the sports but she was all about soccer. She did Track, soccer and volleyball in HS and she loved it. Yes, it knocked her out of the top soccer league. Everything today seems to be about specializing in one sport. The GDA was a full time commitment and had insane travel requirements around the country and you were not allowed to play public HS Soccer or other hs sports unless you went to private hs and got those waivers for the few and mighty.


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## SurFutbol (Monday at 7:21 AM)

oh canada said:


> I guess I missed the news accounts of Roger Goodell being knifed in the back by his wife's college roommate because her kid wasn't playing in the NFL. And, I missed the stories about multiple WNBA coaches sexually harrassing their players. And, I missed the reporting about all the softball and volleyball youth clubs not hiring any female coaches. And, I missed the bribery scandals in F1 racing for race locations. And, I missed the articles about youth baseball national leagues changing from one league format to a different league (DA) to a different league (ECNL) over the course of a few years. And, I missed the reports in youth hockey about how the national federation can't find high quality coaches to coach their youth national teams and scout because they require the coaches to live in Chicago and don't pay sh*t.
> 
> Soccer is no worse? Keep your head buried in the sand. There are systemic cultural problems with this sport in the US and it's time to discuss and figure out why.


You really are a dumbf**k aren't you? The coach of USA men's soccer is the victim of a ridiculously petty incident that is barely newsworthy, yet less than a month ago the former president of USA Softball was given 14 years for lewd and lascivious with a child under 14.  She was 8 when it started btw.  Why don't you tell me what's worse?

Again, the only reason you think soccer is so much worse than other youth sports is because you're feeling too sorry for yourself about soccer to have any idea what it going on outside your sad little bubble.  Below are a few more scandals involving youth volleyball and softball btw.  And if you want to compare scandals between USSF and the NFL, a league where someone almost died two weeks ago,  settled a concussion lawsuit for a billion dollars and has about 40 players a year arrested, many of whom in sex and domestic violence scandals that barely result in slaps on the wrist, let's do it. 

Former youth volleyball coach is charged with 52 felonies for 'raping at least three young girls' | Daily Mail Online
Powerful youth volleyball coach under fire after sex abuse allegations – New York Daily News (nydailynews.com)
Former Girls' Volleyball Coach Accused of Sex Acts with Teen | San Jose Inside
Elite youth volleyball coach sued over alleged sex abuse of teen in Syracuse - syracuse.com
Sex offender's wife allowed him to coach Santa Cruz youth volleyball (ksbw.com)
St. Joe High Accused of Covering Up Sex Scandal | REAL News Michiana
Coach Rick Butler, already booted from USA Volleyball and AAU following sex abuse allegations, now banned from youth tournament at Disney – New York Daily News (nydailynews.com)
Osceola youth softball coach given 30 years in prison for child molesting (yahoo.com)
Ex-Softball Coach Accused of Sexually Abusing Minor (people.com)
News 4 Investigates: Disturbing video testimony of former St. Louis County softball coaches accused of sexually assaulting player (kmov.com)
Ohio softball coach pleads guilty after sleeping with student, begged student not to tell (fox13news.com)
Former Clear Creek Amana Softball coach charged with sexual abuse of student 15 years ago (kcrg.com)
Ex-USA Softball President John Gouveia accused of sexual assault of child under 14 - UPI.com


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## Carlsbad7 (Monday at 7:54 AM)

crush said:


> 100% agree. I played AYSO, Biddy Basketball at the YMCA, ran track and played Little League. HS was all about hoops and baseball. I also played beach Volleyball, tennis, golf and I surfed when the waves were good (I almost went Pro Surfer). I tried to get my dd to play all the sports but she was all about soccer. She did Track, soccer and volleyball in HS and she loved it. Yes, it knocked her out of the top soccer league. Everything today seems to be about specializing in one sport. The GDA was a full time commitment and had insane travel requirements around the country and you were not allowed to play public HS Soccer or other hs sports unless you went to private hs and got those waivers for the few and mighty.


I remember the old DA + them not allowing players to play HS soccer. ECNL allowed players to play HS + used it as a selling point.

General fyi GA now is a lot like DA was. Although they no longer say it out loud top GA clubs dont alow players to do HS soccer. What they do is setup out of state events that make playing for a HS team or guesting for an ECNL club very difficult. Many of the same people are involved so the philosophies haven't changed.

I get annoyed because in SoCal if all the clubs played in the same league we'd have the best teams in the nation + everyone would travel to play us because of the year round sunny weather. Instead we're paying big $$$ to play teams that are roughly the same (or more generally worse) as the ones in SoCal. All so those at top of the youth sports pyramid can make their cut from event, flight, hotel fees.


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## crush (Monday at 8:22 AM)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I remember the old DA + them not allowing players to play HS soccer. ECNL allowed players to play HS + used it as a selling point.
> 
> General fyi GA now is a lot like DA was. Although they no longer say it out loud top GA clubs dont alow players to do HS soccer. What they do is setup out of state events that make playing for a HS team or guesting for an ECNL club very difficult. Many of the same people are involved so the philosophies haven't changed.
> 
> I get annoyed because in SoCal if all the clubs played in the same league we'd have the best teams in the nation + everyone would travel to play us because of the year round sunny weather. Instead we're paying big $$$ to play teams that are roughly the same (or more generally worse) as the ones in SoCal. All so those at top of the youth sports pyramid can make their cut from event, flight, hotel fees.


California could have it's own National Team. I agree 100% that "they" should come here to play us. We have it all and we have more of the best players in the country. Weather, fields and players makes California the place to come to test your talent against the Nations Best. I'm telling you this from the horse mouth, the rich dads got their hands on the great game in SoCal and forced all of us to do travel ball to play pay to play soccer. If you complained because they forbid HS Soccer and other sports, plus complain about how expensive the fees are, plus travel around the country all year expense, privates with Doc to secure your play time and all the "other" extras thrown at you during the season like forced fundraising, you were blacklisted and made fun of on the forum. Oh ya, insane per diems for top Doc and his presidential suite in Scottsdale. The Docs had the picks in 2017, ran Training Centers and basically controlled everything. We need regulations and promotions and we need Dad and Mom to step aside and get their hands out of the decision making.


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Monday at 9:12 AM)

oh canada said:


> Another month, another soccer scandal. All sports have the occasional drama, but why does this sport, especially soccer in the USA, seemingly have 10x the amount of issues as other sports?
> 
> Well, it all starts at U6, in the pay-for-play USA club scene. In a sport that has no objective criteria for determining who's better than whom, parents with big egos, white-collar jobs, and the ability to spend countless hours at the fields and up the coaches' arses. The clubs are hyper-focused on $$, branding, and growth, and the good ol' boy network is deeply entrenched with testosterone, favors, winks, and quid pro quos. Nepotism, bribes, blackmale, discrimination, abuse...from FIFA to US Soccer to MLS/NWSL to college campuses to CalSouth to Surf (and other clubs) to AYSO, and all the media/ranking companies that perpetuate the charade. It all drips with filth. It may be the one sector where you find more ugliness than Capitol Hill, with car dealerships running a distant third. And, other youth sports farther down the chain.
> 
> Friends know I've had three kids go through the soccer system and achieve their personal goals--college etc--so, no regrets here. But, I'm often asked for advice about getting their little tykes started in soccer. Ten-Fifteen years ago, my answer was different. Now, I tell them, "try every other team and individual sport first, and if your kid hates every other one, then consider soccer. Because the corruption, the cost, the time commitment, the injury risks, the crazy parents, the subjectivity of the sport, and the potential upsides, are worse than any other athletic endeavor." Soccer makes my beloved hockey look like, well, child's play. The beautiful game? Wisdom has me thinking otherwise.


it's obvious you never played soccer


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## crush (Monday at 9:25 AM)

Soccer Dad & Ref said:


> it's obvious you never played soccer


I played 8 years of AYSO and loved every minute of it. Saturday morning games, rain or shine. High school I picked hoops over soccer, although the head coach at the time told me I could just come to the games and be a back up to full time GK. No thanks coach. My sons Pony League Team also had a few of the top players on the same Travel Ball Team. A rich dad with a so so player but lot's of cash and toys fit right in. He basically bought the travel team through his sponsoring the team and paying the fees of a  few of the poor kids who also happen to be the best players in the area. This dad later became board member.


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## Grace T. (Monday at 9:54 AM)

graciesdad said:


> All sports have issues and they are all driven by dollars and delusional parents. Whatever happened to just signing up for your local AYSO, Little League etc? This worked fine when I grew up. I played 3 sports in HS and baseball in college. This made me a well rounded athlete and person. Too much specialization at an early is not healthy. The cream and talent will always rise to the top. Plus you will save a ton of money and drama.


I've written it before. AYSO was a victim of its unwillingness to change.  First, because it relied on volunteer coaching, and because soccer knowledge in the US was not deep, it led to an irregular product....you could get a really great coach or you could get a coach that didn't know anything about soccer and had never played even AYSO (I've told the story how my son's first coach had the kids line up in a three point stance on the kickoff).  Second, AYSO had a philosophy of everyone plays and no stratification based on skills.  It led to the handicapped kid and the future pro playing together.  That wasn't good for the future pro because to play striker someone needs to get you the ball.  Wasn't good for the handicapped kid either because kids are smart and knew not to pass it to someone who would lose the ball.

A few other things fueled the club machine.  One was Title IX as colleges had to make more investments in women's athletic scholarships in order to balance out the men's football scholarships.  That led to competition for money on the table.  The other thing is as college became more competitive (for a variety of reasons, including increased foreigners, and a drive for everyone to get into college) athletics became a vehicle to get into college which led to specialization (because specialization works...the entire 1000 touches a day thing).  Finally, the US made a push for a more professional athletic team especially on the men's side which meant the AYSO education would no longer cut it.  Put em all together and perfect storm of specialization.  The specialization thing also isn't just limited to sports: dance, equestrian, literature, speech and debate, band, chess all suffering from the same problem.


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## crush (Monday at 10:06 AM)

Grace T. said:


> I've written it before. AYSO was a victim of its unwillingness to change.  First, because it relied on volunteer coaching, and because soccer knowledge in the US was not deep, it led to an irregular product....you could get a really great coach or you could get a coach that didn't know anything about soccer and had never played even AYSO (I've told the story how my son's first coach had the kids line up in a three point stance on the kickoff).  Second, AYSO had a philosophy of everyone plays and no stratification based on skills.  It led to the handicapped kid and the future pro playing together.  That wasn't good for the future pro because to play striker someone needs to get you the ball.  Wasn't good for the handicapped kid either because kids are smart and knew not to pass it to someone who would lose the ball.
> 
> A few other things fueled the club machine.  One was Title IX as colleges had to make more investments in women's athletic scholarships in order to balance out the men's football scholarships.  That led to competition for money on the table.  The other thing is as college became more competitive (for a variety of reasons, including increased foreigners, and a drive for everyone to get into college) athletics became a vehicle to get into college which led to specialization (because specialization works...the entire 1000 touches a day thing).  Finally, the US made a push for a more professional athletic team especially on the men's side which meant the AYSO education would no longer cut it.  Put em all together and perfect storm of specialization.  The specialization thing also isn't just limited to sports: dance, equestrian, literature, speech and debate, band, chess all suffering from the same problem.


I love these takes Grace T. We need something way better than AYSO. Each city shall hire a Doc and the Doc will find the coaches to teach the kids basic futbol. The Doc will only hire "Qualified Coaches" or QC. QC is anyone who knows how to coach soccer. You need to be qualified some how. That's the easy part, moo. The Doc will work a budget to pay a stipend to each QC or the QC can do it for free. I say do this through U14.


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## crush (Yesterday at 4:43 AM)

Berhalter-Reyna explained: Drama's roots in U.S.'s overbearing parents
					

U.S. Soccer's familial fiasco between the Berhalters and Reynas traces its lineage back to the growing trend of "snowplow" parents in youth sports.




					www.espn.com


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## VanMan (Yesterday at 1:23 PM)

crush said:


> Berhalter-Reyna explained: Drama's roots in U.S.'s overbearing parents
> 
> 
> U.S. Soccer's familial fiasco between the Berhalters and Reynas traces its lineage back to the growing trend of "snowplow" parents in youth sports.
> ...


There's a lot to unpack in that article.  In the context of the core idea of this thread:

_*"I think if you talk to coaches and organizational leaders, they will say our biggest issue is parents. I think if you look at youth baseball, youth basketball, it's happening in every sport," said Jason Sacks, president of the Positive Coaching Alliance...*_

I do find it fascinating that everyone is pointing to this incident as the ultimate evidence of soccer parents being overbearing and entitled.   I mean, sh*t, we all know that they're out there and not just in soccer.   How many people were jumping up and down about AAU basketball parents when Lavar Ball was having his media hey days?  

I think it's more of an indictment of the fact that the USSF men's side has created the ultimate good 'ol boys club in it's leadership, of which the Reynas are members.  They had direct connections and immediate access to contact USSF leadership due to their longstanding personal relationships, which they immediately used when they saw Gio wasn't getting time and then went nuclear when Berhalter opened his mouth about things that should have stayed in the locker room.   The Reynas had every right to be pissed; all of this could have a HUGE impact on Gio's long term earning power.  That being said, they should have left the conversations to Dan Segal (Gio's agent) instead of reaching out directly to their friends at USSF.


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## timbuck (Yesterday at 1:35 PM)

All sports suck nowadays.  Unless your kid has the desire and talent to play in college - It completely fizzles out around 9th grade.
I know a good amount of high school aged players who hung up their cleats, but still had a desire to play.  They just didn't want to train 6 days a week, miss out on social activities and wake up at 6am on a weekend to play a game in Norco at 8 am.

More kids at this age should go back to rec/AYSO soccer and just play for the love of the game and some laughs with friends.


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## oh canada (Yesterday at 7:38 PM)

Which sport has a pro team pay six-figures to move up to make a #1 draft choice for a player who's father is the CEO of a youth sports club that also just happens to receive a substantial amount of $$ from that same pro team for all its practice facilities, and may even have a coach or two in common? I'll give you one guess.


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## oh canada (Today at 4:08 AM)

And, what youth sport is the only one with a national federation and clubs on the same page requiring or strongly discouraging players to play for their high school teams and coaches? 

Yes, that might prevent some injuries. But do you really think that's the primary purpose for the clubs? More important it eliminates the high school coach and season from having any influence on player development and their future. Guess who becomes the only kingmaker, and since kids are specialized in only one sport now, where does all the parent money and influence become focused?

Think about it...high school football coaches still provide a huge role for students and recruits. The top basketball prospects still play high school--boys and girls. High school baseball games draw just as many scouts as club. Even high school volleyball is still a big deal. And, high school lacrosse, track and field, tennis, golf. What makes soccer so special that its kids shouldn't play high school? And, where did that school of thought start? It wasn't a player trend that the clubs and federation just followed along with...it started in the boardrooms. And, when you have clubs with 40 affiliates across the country and a national federation pushing an agenda that is anti-player, we should be asking why...and, not surprised that it causes crazy parents (and coaches) to behave badly.


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## graciesdad (Today at 7:04 AM)

timbuck said:


> All sports suck nowadays.  Unless your kid has the desire and talent to play in college - It completely fizzles out around 9th grade.
> I know a good amount of high school aged players who hung up their cleats, but still had a desire to play.  They just didn't want to train 6 days a week, miss out on social activities and wake up at 6am on a weekend to play a game in Norco at 8 am.
> 
> More kids at this age should go back to rec/AYSO soccer and just play for the love of the game and some laughs with friends.


DD done with the club scene. Tired of the politics, mean girls and all the training. Just gonna play high school and have fun. I am not sad.


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## Carlsbad7 (Today at 10:20 AM)

oh canada said:


> And, what youth sport is the only one with a national federation and clubs on the same page requiring or strongly discouraging players to play for their high school teams and coaches?
> 
> Yes, that might prevent some injuries. But do you really think that's the primary purpose for the clubs? More important it eliminates the high school coach and season from having any influence on player development and their future. Guess who becomes the only kingmaker, and since kids are specialized in only one sport now, where does all the parent money and influence become focused?
> 
> Think about it...high school football coaches still provide a huge role for students and recruits. The top basketball prospects still play high school--boys and girls. High school baseball games draw just as many scouts as club. Even high school volleyball is still a big deal. And, high school lacrosse, track and field, tennis, golf. What makes soccer so special that its kids shouldn't play high school? And, where did that school of thought start? It wasn't a player trend that the clubs and federation just followed along with...it started in the boardrooms. And, when you have clubs with 40 affiliates across the country and a national federation pushing an agenda that is anti-player, we should be asking why...and, not surprised that it causes crazy parents (and coaches) to behave badly.


Football + basketball work as HS sports because 90% of the skill required to play at a high level is to be bigger or taller than everyone else. HS works as a free way to introduce the big kids to a sport. If they like it the big kids can continue training.

Soccer and Lacrosse are finesse sports that require high levels of skill that you typically have to start playing at a young age to make it all the way. Also while size is nice in finesse sports it's not a requirement.

Clubs dont want top talent that have been playing a sport since they were 3 to have to face players that picked up the sport last week. This is because those without skill are just as likely to hurt other players as they are themselves.


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## MacDre (Today at 11:25 AM)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Football + basketball work as HS sports because 90% of the skill required to play at a high level is to be bigger or taller than everyone else. HS works as a free way to introduce the big kids to a sport. If they like it the big kids can continue training.
> 
> Soccer and Lacrosse are finesse sports that require high levels of skill that you typically have to start playing at a young age to make it all the way. Also while size is nice in finesse sports it's not a requirement.
> 
> Clubs dont want top talent that have been playing a sport since they were 3 to have to face players that picked up the sport last week. This is because those without skill are just as likely to hurt other players as they are themselves.


It seems to me that ECNL recruits size and the vast majority lack skill, finesse, and basic fundamentals.  Can you reconcile your skill/finesse assertion with the fact that most college teams play kickball because most of their players don’t have the requisite skillset to play possession soccer?


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## Carlsbad7 (Today at 11:50 AM)

MacDre said:


> It seems to me that ECNL recruits size and the vast majority lack skill, finesse, and basic fundamentals.  Can you reconcile your skill/finesse assertion with the fact that most college teams play kickball because most of their players don’t have the requisite skillset to play possession soccer?


True but at least with soccer skill has a chance over size. Also a posession team with smaller players will usually beat a kickball team. The problem with posession is that it takes a lot of time to develop. Where as with kickball you can be competitive quickly with big and fast players.

Colleges often do kickball because they dont have the time to do posession.


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## crush (Today at 12:17 PM)

oh canada said:


> And, what youth sport is the only one with a national federation and clubs on the same page requiring or strongly discouraging players to play for their high school teams and coaches?
> 
> Yes, that might prevent some injuries. But do you really think that's the primary purpose for the clubs? More important it eliminates the high school coach and season from having any influence on player development and their future. Guess who becomes the only kingmaker, and since kids are specialized in only one sport now, where does all the parent money and influence become focused?
> 
> Think about it...high school football coaches still provide a huge role for students and recruits. The top basketball prospects still play high school--boys and girls. High school baseball games draw just as many scouts as club. Even high school volleyball is still a big deal. And, high school lacrosse, track and field, tennis, golf. What makes soccer so special that its kids shouldn't play high school? And, where did that school of thought start? It wasn't a player trend that the clubs and federation just followed along with...it started in the boardrooms. And, when you have clubs with 40 affiliates across the country and a national federation pushing an agenda that is anti-player, we should be asking why...and, not surprised that it causes crazy parents (and coaches) to behave badly.


No federation that I know bands the players from playing HS Sport. I will say after 4 years of watching HS Soccer, it needs a big overhaul. It's dangerous.


Carlsbad7 said:


> True but at least with soccer skill has a chance over size. Also a posession team with smaller players will usually beat a kickball team. The problem with posession is that it takes a lot of time to develop. Where as with kickball you can be competitive quickly with big and fast players.
> 
> Colleges often do kickball because they dont have the time to do posession.


I watched a Neatherlands Div 1 team play some really good possession soccer. Tired the opponant out. 1-0 at the half and then 3 goals early second half and then lighys out. Quick collection, quick to pass and go and just quick and fast and move the ball from side to side, back to GK and look for the holes in the middle and then go look for shots on goal. Its beautiful to watch. No injuries either. Kickball/Direct Soccer is easier to teach and if refs let play on and allow rugby stylw hits, folks will get injured and not the best skilled team wins. Great stuff brother


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