# Is This Still Soccer?



## lafalafa (Oct 15, 2020)

Alrighty so if things come down to this would your player still participate?  

Not saying I support or what to see this happen but if the choice was between just practicing no scrimmages, games as is status quo or some modifications and changes so games could start again soon would you support the change or not?









						Is This Still Soccer? (Published 2020)
					

In Massachusetts, rule changes brought on by the pandemic — no contact, no tackles, no headers, no throw-ins — are forcing soccer players and coaches to adapt to a very different game.




					www.nytimes.com
				




"You’re still not allowed to touch the ball with your hands.

But in many other important ways, the soccer being played by Massachusetts high schools this fall differs significantly in shape and form from the soccer known and played around the rest of the world.

No physical contact. No slide tackles. No headers. No throw-ins. Six feet of distance between players is required whenever play is restarted — in other words, no walls or close marking on free kicks. And to top things off, everyone on the field must wear a mask at all times.

Sports leagues across the country, from youth leagues to the pros, are implementing safety protocols this fall to try to play games amid the coronavirus pandemic. Some guidelines, on things like sharing water bottles or high-fiving or locker room use, are common sense in the coronavirus era. Others are more extreme: In Vermont, for example, high schools are playing seven-on-seven football this year, and volleyball matches are moving from indoor gyms to outdoor courts.

But few have taken things as far as the state of Massachusetts, which unveiled its unusual rules for soccer on the eve of what is shaping up to be one of the strangest high school sports seasons in memory.

It’s crazy,” said Francesca Yanchuk, a senior forward for the girls’ team at Bishop Feehan High School in Attleboro, Mass., who has had to unlearn some of the skills that helped her secure a scholarship to play at Villanova next year.

I might go for a header, and I’ll go, ‘Wait, I can’t do that,’” she said. “You have to take a step back and reset your mind.”

The rules caused a statewide stir when they were announced in late August by the Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association, which oversees sports for almost 400 high schools in the state. They were not produced in haste: Rough drafts were shuttled from sports committees to medical committees and back again as the rules were being completed. But as the season neared, an M.I.A.A. official said, the organization was ultimately handcuffed in terms of what it could allow.

The fateful moment came in August, when the state agency in charge of the latest phase of reopenings released its guidelines. Sports officials noticed almost immediately that they included a prohibition on “deliberate contact.”

“I don’t know if you’ve seen soccer,” said Tara Bennett, a spokeswoman for the athletic association, “but that’s how you play soccer.”

Not anymore. The rules sent coaches to their drawing boards to figure out how to play what is essentially a new game.

It was a weird hybrid between soccer and girls’ field hockey,” Zach Siano, the coach of the boys’ soccer team at Belchertown High School, said about his team’s first game on Wednesday. (Two of the team’s first three games were postponed because of coronavirus precautions.) “It was a little difficult to watch.”

Siano, whose team won a state championship last year, said the opposing team scored easily on a free kick from 20 yards because it largely went undefended; under the new rules, defensive walls are not allowed. And he said defenders were already cynically stopping dangerous attacks by triggering one of the new coronavirus contact fouls.

For the most part, states resuming high school sports were doing so with basic safety rules, though a few, including California, have postponed fall seasons altogether.

Niehoff said that while consistency in sports across the country was typically an important goal, associations were being given a “hall pass” this year, given the complicated challenge of adhering to state health and safety protocols that vary widely.

“But I think if this were a normal year, we absolutely would scratch our heads a little bit and reach out and say, What’s your rationale for this level of alteration?” Niehoff said about the modified soccer rules in Massachusetts.

Many are scratching their heads anyway.

“I don’t think it’s made the game more socially distant,” said Silva, the Bishop Feehan girls’ coach, noting that players were still bunching up on the field. “To me, putting masks on but keeping the rules the same would have been a much easier way to create a safe environment while still playing the game as it’s supposed to be played.”

But Silva said the biggest problem for him so far was the sheer number of stoppages in games. On top of all the new fouls, throw-in situations have now become indirect free kicks (which must be played on the ground) and referees regularly stop play to enforce proper spacing.

“It’s really slowing down the game,” Silva said.

Referees, too, are having to adjust. Several said communication and patience were more important than ever as everyone gets on the same page.

Like players and coaches, referees will have to break old habits to enforce reimagined game protocols. Among the changes:

The new infractions will be termed “Covid fouls,” Quinn said, and trigger an indirect kick.

Games will be divided into quarters instead of halves to give players additional rest.

Goalkeepers cannot throw or punt a ball in the air across the midfield line.

A player stepping within six feet of a referee to argue a call will be given a straight red card and ejected.

Postgame handshake lines will be replaced by waving and nodding lines.


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## Kicker4Life (Oct 15, 2020)

A giant crock of SHIT!


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## Chalklines (Oct 15, 2020)

Libbin life on the edge


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## Footy30 (Oct 15, 2020)

ummm time out, do these rules apply for CA? or rather AZ and NV since that's where we're playing???? sorry just skimmed it quickly
WTF


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## Kicker4Life (Oct 15, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> ummm time out, do these rules apply for CA? or rather AZ and NV since that's where we're playing???? sorry just skimmed it quickly
> WTF


Thankfully NO


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## lafalafa (Oct 15, 2020)

Footy30 said:


> ummm time out, do these rules apply for CA? or rather AZ and NV since that's where we're playing????
> WTF


Those are only in Massachusetts:  
"Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association, which oversees sports for almost 400 high schools in the state"

Questions is would you support any changes to get back sooner in CA or would your player rather wait it out as is without sanctioned local games or scrimmages?   

Massachusetts went there own way, other states doing things differently, CA not doing anything so far.


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## dad4 (Oct 15, 2020)

It's better than no soccer at all.

Purists dont have to play if they think it ruins the sport.


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## Grace T. (Oct 15, 2020)

I posted some videos in the ref forum....if you want to see it.  Depends on how closely they call it.  In one, the ref barely calls anything.  In the other refs whistling alot but allowed GK contact.


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## futboldad1 (Oct 15, 2020)

dad4 said:


> It's better than no soccer at all.
> 
> Purists dont have to play if they think it ruins the sport.


Purists? You'd use that term to talk about possession style or a time before video replays......... What's happening in MA is NOT soccer bud......


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## dad4 (Oct 15, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> Purists? You'd use that term to talk about possession style or a time before video replays......... What's happening in MA is NOT soccer bud......


Ok.  Don't call it soccer.  (covidball?)

By any name, that thing they are doing in Massachusetts looks like more fun than that thing we are doing in California.


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## Paul Spacey (Oct 15, 2020)

But the masks. The masks protect everyone don’t they? They protect you and they protect those around you. That’s what we continue to be told; so why the need for all of the other changes? It’s a circus.

All of that said; if it was a choice between this and nothing, of course the kids would choose this.

“COVID fouls” though. Oh my days.


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## jimlewis (Oct 15, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> But the masks. The masks protect everyone don’t they? They protect you and they protect those around you. That’s what we continue to be told; so why the need for all of the other changes? It’s a circus.
> 
> All of that said; if it was a choice between this and nothing, of course the kids would choose this.
> 
> “COVID fouls” though. Oh my days.


All Mass is doing is killing soccer leagues in the state, the proximity to other states will allow top clubs to circumvent this easily


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## Eagle33 (Oct 15, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> But the masks. The masks protect everyone don’t they? They protect you and they protect those around you. That’s what we continue to be told; so why the need for all of the other changes? It’s a circus.
> 
> All of that said; if it was a choice between this and nothing, of course the kids would choose this.
> 
> “COVID fouls” though. Oh my days.


I convinced it's not only ridiculous but also very disrespectful for the Beautiful Game.


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## watfly (Oct 15, 2020)

It's amazing what you can get some people to do (or not do) under the guise of Covid safety, particularly since there is little, to no threat, to young people.  More surprisingly is that some people think we should be thankful that we get to do this, under the premise that "it's better than nothing".  How about we all buck-up and demand that we shouldn't have to prove that our long standing freedoms are safe, but that our government officials should have to definitively prove our normally held freedoms are unsafe before taking them away.

Weird world when stories in The Onion seem more plausible than the actual stories.


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## Messi>CR7 (Oct 15, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Ok.  Don't call it soccer.  (covidball?)
> 
> By any name, that thing they are doing in Massachusetts looks like more fun than that thing we are doing in California.


I understand your point that some form of competition is better than nothing, but it's not so practical at real game speed.  I recently participated in a impromptu 3v3 parents vs kids scrimmage after a practice.  Everyone was wearing a mask to be considerate.  The kids were taking it easy on us at 50% game speed, but the old men (myself included) were all gasping for air.  Wearing a mask in a true competitive soccer match is just not realistic.

Anyway, we're not the only one doing silly things when it comes to Covid and soccer:








						Coronavirus: Football team loses 37-0 in socially distanced match
					

German club Ripdorf stepped onto the pitch, kicked the ball away and then stood on the sidelines.



					www.bbc.com
				



I told my kids in their next match, just periodically clear their throats very loudly a few times, and they should have an open path to goal.


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## crush (Oct 15, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> But the masks. The masks protect everyone don’t they? They protect you and they protect those around you. That’s what we continue to be told; so why the need for all of the other changes? It’s a circus.
> 
> All of that said; if it was a choice between this and nothing, *of course the kids would choose this.*
> 
> “COVID fouls” though. Oh my days.


My kid is 100% no way and $%&% no!!!  AYSO and some other kids, sure.  This is pure BS!!!  Have fun MA and have some chow wow pow for yourself too.  Enjoy your new brand of soccer.


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## Footy30 (Oct 16, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Those are only in Massachusetts:
> "Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association, which oversees sports for almost 400 high schools in the state"
> 
> Questions is would you support any changes to get back sooner in CA or would your player rather wait it out as is without sanctioned local games or scrimmages?
> ...


My bad... that's what I get for skimming not actually reading haha

As far as your question goes, not sure, really it would be up to my kids since they're the ones out there playing (my boots have been hung up for years now). I will ask them and see what they say. One is a GK so that answer may differ than the field players...  I would support my kids either way, but  I would  100%  tease the hell out of them about this "Covid Soccer"


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> More surprisingly is that some people think we should be thankful that we get to do this, under the premise that "it's better than nothing". How about we all buck-up and demand that we shouldn't have to prove that our long standing freedoms are safe, but that our government officials should have to definitively prove our normally held freedoms are unsafe before taking them away.


This part is key. 

It is amazing how fast people are willing to do what gov tells them. And then when they get crumbs, they tell others we should be thankful. 

Our own gov stats at CDC show very clearly that kids (under 19) have no risk of this disease. Those stats show that if a million kids get the virus 30 may die. And yet we willingly keep kids out of schools, have them wear masks playing soccer outside, etc. Wake up. 

We also see more and more information coming out how they are not spreaders either. 

We should stand up and say enough of this BS. 

By the way I notice that many of the people on this forum who like the lockdown idea and masks leave our state to go to AZ to have their kids play soccer. Why is that? Advocating one thing here, but going somewhere else to do what you cannot here. A state it seems many of the same people on this forum think got it wrong.


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## watfly (Oct 16, 2020)

Here is the other thing.  What is the difference in risk between playing actual soccer and the game that the State of Massachusetts has designed?  Nothing, or its so infinitesimal as to be completely irrelevant, its all just political theater like not wearing a mask in a crowded group or a TV reporter wearing a mask outside when there is no one within 10 feet.  My favorite is when they use those really long boom mics to interview people.


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## Mad Hatter (Oct 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> Nothing, or its so infinitesimal as to be completely irrelevant, its all just political theater


It is absolutely political theater.


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## dad4 (Oct 16, 2020)

Mad Hatter said:


> By the way I notice that many of the people on this forum who like the lockdown idea and masks leave our state to go to AZ to have their kids play soccer. Why is that? Advocating one thing here, but going somewhere else to do what you cannot here. A state it seems many of the same people on this forum think got it wrong.


Responding to why lockdown advocates are going to NV/AZ-

You’re assuming that someone who is favor of closing some activities must be in favor of a more complete lockdown.

I am in favor of closing bars, restaurants, casinos, indoor nail salons, churches, theaters, amusement parks, indoor malls, and tournaments.  I am also opposed to opening high schools on a traditional schedule.   To you, I’m sure this sounds like I am a complete lockdown advocate.

However, I am also in favor of opening parks, playgrounds, retail, outdoor nail salons, outdoor church services, outdoor league sports, restaurant delivery, manufacturing and construction, provided we use masks and distance.  I favor opening schools with stable cohorts of less than 25.

In short, I prefer a course that is half open, but fully masked.   I would not be going to AZ or NV if the state allowed two league games a month.  

But it’s not about me and I don’t get to make that choice.  None of us do.  So we all pick the best available option, from those that are possible to us as individuals.   And none of us are all that happy with what we get.


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## lafalafa (Oct 16, 2020)

Health dept and CA has reportedly been working on a youth sports guidance update and there some of this MA stuff contained within some drafts I would told by someone that works with CIF.   That and Tier restrictions that could spell trouble for places like LA county.  

Changes seem to coming to the youth sports guidance with a Nov 'ish effective start date so hopefully some of the organizations get a chance to provide feedback "suggestions" so we get something workable.  

For my own personal reasons hoping the LA county  C19 tier classification don't get in the way so I urged my local reps to see what we can do about it.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 16, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Alrighty so if things come down to this would your player still participate?
> 
> Not saying I support or what to see this happen but if the choice was between just practicing no scrimmages, games as is status quo or some modifications and changes so games could start again soon would you support the change or not?
> 
> ...


So, the state of MA told the football leagues or high school programs they can not tackle, throw the football, and can do air guitars to stop a player because flags can also not be used?


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## Desert Hound (Oct 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> I am in favor of closing bars, restaurants, casinos, indoor nail salons, churches, theaters, amusement parks, indoor malls, and tournaments.


Didn't I see you post earlier you are coming out for Surf Cup or some other tournament?


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## lafalafa (Oct 16, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> So, the state of MA told the football leagues or high school programs they can not tackle, throw the football, and can do air guitars to stop a player because flags can also not be used?


 Did they?  I only  know about the MA high school soccer changes from this article.


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## LASTMAN14 (Oct 16, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Did they?  I only  know about the MA high school soccer changes from this article.


I was being sarcastic.  To change how soccer is played to that is awful. But, I am sure if football is being played there nothing has been changed.


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## crush (Oct 16, 2020)

Mad Hatter said:


> This part is key.
> 
> It is amazing how fast people are willing to do what gov tells them. And then when they get crumbs, they tell others we should be thankful.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the Socal Soccer Forum Mad hatter.  Great avatar.  I look forward to hearing your takes brah!!!


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## crush (Oct 16, 2020)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I was being sarcastic.  To change how soccer is played to that is awful. But, I am sure if football is being played there nothing has been changed.


So Lastman is sarcastic sometimes, that's great to hear bro.  I'm so sarcastic those who dont know me take me way to serious.  Hope soccer and all sports for kids can open up asap.


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## watfly (Oct 16, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> Didn't I see you post earlier you are coming out for Surf Cup or some other tournament?


I think we should applaud Dad4's evolution regarding Covid activities regardless of his rationale.  He is willing to put his own fears aside to have his child play soccer in AZ, kudos.  

We're going to AZ to scrimmage next weekend.  I'd personally rather scrimmage locally on the DL and risk the consequences than drive to AZ.   It's admittedly a little absurd, but unusual times call for unusual measures.  I do admit I'm kind of looking to stepping up to the bar and having a cocktail.


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## MacDre (Oct 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> I think we should applaud Dad4's evolution regarding Covid activities regardless of his rationale.  He is willing to put his own fears aside to have his child play soccer in AZ, kudos.
> 
> We're going to AZ to scrimmage next weekend.  I'd personally rather scrimmage locally on the DL and risk the consequences than drive to AZ.   It's admittedly a little absurd, but unusual times call for unusual measures.  I do admit I'm kind of looking to stepping up to the bar and having a cocktail.


I don’t think the dude has evolved, I think he’s loosing his mind.  8 months of quarantine with 4 kids will drive anybody crazy


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## watfly (Oct 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I don’t think the dude has evolved, I think he’s loosing his mind.  8 months of quarantine with 4 kids will drive anybody crazy


It's just proof that even the most staunch "lockdowners" get to a point where enough is enough and can see through the fallacy of certain restrictions. Better late than never.

We're all losing our minds.


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## Desert Hound (Oct 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> It's just proof that even the most staunch "lockdowners" get to a point where enough is enough and can see through the fallacy of certain restrictions. Better late than never.
> 
> We're all losing our minds.


I was just pointing out the disconnect with dad. Just above or in another thread about less than an hour ago he indicated he would shut down tournaments. And yet he is coming out with his kid for one. 

I am glad he is evolving however. He has looked at the risk and realized that yeah we can do a tournament. 

As you say. Better late than never.


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## watfly (Oct 16, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I was just pointing out the disconnect with dad. Just above or in another thread about less than an hour ago he indicated he would shut down tournaments. And yet he is coming out with his kid for one.
> 
> I am glad he is evolving however. He has looked at the risk and realized that yeah we can do a tournament.
> 
> As you say. Better late than never.


I hear ya, I was trying to be positive since its Friday 

It's a perfect example of "the shoe being on the other foot" and why you, I and others have objected to others telling us what is best for us, and why we have been proponents of choice all along, because the reality is that your risk of Covid is overwhelmingly dependent on your own choices and not the choices of others.


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## crush (Oct 16, 2020)

MacDre said:


> I don’t think the dude has evolved, I think he’s loosing his mind.  8 months of quarantine with 4 kids will drive anybody crazy


This is what one of my nice adopted Gramps told my dear mama what a huge mistake it was to adopt me.  I was a little devil so I dont blame him and I sure did need a spanking.  My adopted dad had Parkinson's and when I need that tough love discipline, he couldnt catch me and I was left in the wild to be crazy and boy, was I.  Not bragging at all and I truly wish i had a dad like dad 4 to help protect me and give me boundaries.


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## crush (Oct 16, 2020)




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## dad4 (Oct 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> It's just proof that even the most staunch "lockdowners" get to a point where enough is enough and can see through the fallacy of certain restrictions. Better late than never.
> 
> We're all losing our minds.


It’s more that the data has changed.  In March, growth was exponential, we didn’t know much about how to control or treat it, and we thought fatality was 3%.  

Not one of those is true any more.   Growth these days looks linear, we know to avoid indoor areas, we know to wear masks, IFR is far lower, and we actually have a clue about treatment.

The right policy based on March data looks a lot different from the right policy based on October data.  That’s all.  You still won‘t find me inside a restaurant for a long time.  

And, as MacDre pointed out, I lost my marbles a while ago.


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## Grace T. (Oct 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Not one of those is true any more.   Growth these days looks linear, we know to avoid indoor areas, we know to wear masks, IFR is far lower, and we actually have a clue about treatment.


Some of us having been saying this (including that the IFR was vastly overestimated) for quite a while now.....


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## Kicker4Life (Oct 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Some of us having been saying this (including that the IFR was vastly overestimated) for quite a while now.....


Like since March......


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## watfly (Oct 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> In March, growth was exponential, we didn’t know much about how to control or treat it, and we thought fatality was 3%.


I'd just like to point out (since I'm so desperate to be right on a public soccer forum) that I called BS on exponential growth continuing, assuming it even was happening, from the beginning. Ouch, I think I just pulled a shoulder muscle.


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## dad4 (Oct 16, 2020)

watfly said:


> I'd just like to point out (since I'm so desperate to be right on a public soccer forum) that I called BS on exponential growth continuing, assuming it even was happening, from the beginning. Ouch, I think I just pulled a shoulder muscle.


But, at the time you were saying it, you were dead wrong.   The growth curve then was exponential.

Try ibuprofen for that shoulder muscle.  Works better than HDQ.


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## watfly (Oct 16, 2020)

dad4 said:


> But, at the time you were saying it, you were dead wrong.   The growth curve then was exponential.
> 
> Try ibuprofen for that shoulder muscle.  Works better than HDQ.


What if I take the HDQ on the early onset of symptoms...still a no go?


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## Desert Hound (Oct 16, 2020)

I am still trying to square dad saying earlier today tournaments is something he would cancel, and the fact he is going to a tournament in AZ.


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## watfly (Oct 16, 2020)

Desert Hound said:


> I am still trying to square dad saying earlier today tournaments is something he would cancel, and the fact he is going to a tournament in AZ.


What part of exponential vs linear didn't you understand?


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## Copa9 (Oct 16, 2020)

Paul Spacey said:


> But the masks. The masks protect everyone don’t they? They protect you and they protect those around you. That’s what we continue to be told; so why the need for all of the other changes? It’s a circus.
> 
> All of that said; if it was a choice between this and nothing, of course the kids would choose this.
> 
> “COVID fouls” though. Oh my days.


No one, no one has ever said masks protect 100% of the time.


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## Grace T. (Oct 16, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> No one, no one has ever said masks protect 100% of the time.


But they have said: "I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more *guaranteed *to protect me against COVID than when I take a COVID vaccine."


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## Copa9 (Oct 16, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> But they have said: "I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more *guaranteed *to protect me against COVID than when I take a COVID vaccine."


Your right, I heard the same idiot say that.


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## Paul Spacey (Oct 16, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> No one, no one has ever said masks protect 100% of the time.


Relax Dr Fauci. I never said anything about 100% in my post. I was somewhat jokingly hinting at the fact the other rule changes are not necessary if masks are indeed as effective as we continue to be told. Let’s stick to soccer and not make this another thread that dies of politics and internet doctors.


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## Kicker4Life (Oct 16, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> Your right, I heard the same idiot say that.


 Was it the same one who said that China was doing it right because they only had 85,000 cases?


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