# ECNL vs. DA turf war has created a 'toxic environment'



## VegasParent

*I thought this was interesting. Full interview in the link.

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/82075/lorne-donaldson-on-how-the-ecnl-vs-development-ac.html?verified=1

SOCCER AMERICA: Your club, Real Colorado, is one of a handful that fields teams in both the ECNL, launched in 2009, and the Girls U.S. Soccer Development Academy, which started in 2017 and is now in its second season. How do you manage both?*

*LORNE DONALDSON*: I think we have a good staff and our management is good. We really have no problem. We have the fields to do it. And we have the players because the kids want to play for us because it’s a good environment.

We have a good pool of players, and it’s going to get better if they allow us to stay in both leagues. But who knows what’s going to happen now? I think there are going to be some decisions coming up.

*SA: You may not continue fielding teams in both the Girls DA and the ECNL?*

*LORNE DONALDSON*: The ECNL wanted us to get out of [the Development Academy]. There are some clubs already out of the ECNL. They have been kicked out.

The ECNL thinks that at the clubs that play both ECNL and DA, your top players are playing in the DA and the second-string players are playing in the ECNL. They [the ECNL] want all the top players. The ECNL is saying, you can’t do both. You can just do one.

*SA: So what do you think will happen next season (2019-20)?*

*LORNE DONALDSON*: I don’t know yet for sure if we’re going to be in both. Three or four days ago, I told them if we come to the ECNL, we want two teams [in each age group]. They have to go and discuss it.

*SA: Because if you leave the Girls DA, about half the Real Colorado players who now play in the Girls DA and ECNL will no longer be playing in one of the nation’s elite girls leagues?*

*LORNE DONALDSON*: Yes. If we're only going to play ECNL, we can’t just take one team. It doesn’t make any sense. We would like to see both teams in if we’re going to do it. We have the environment to do it. But that’s a discussion with the ECNL.

*SA: And if it comes down to making a choice between the two?*

*LORNE DONALDSON*: Then most likely we would stay in the DA. We will lose our ECNL group.


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## Messi>CR7

Hmmm, let me follow this logic:
-Before there was DA, Real Colorado was able to field one elite ECNL team per age group.
-Now they have a DA and an ECNL team.
-If they leave DA after two years, they now believe they can field two elite ECNL teams.
-Where did the extra 16 elite players come from?

The clubs are not innocent bystanders in this mess.


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## Dos Equis

The ECNL thinks the best players are in the DA because the Girls DA application, signed by the club, includes this requirement under Roster Management:   _"Development Academy clubs will be required to field teams that consist of the top players from the club's entire player pool."_

If the ECNL is stating that they do not want second teams from clubs as large as Real Colorado, time appears to be running out for dual clubs.


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## VegasParent

Dos Equis said:


> The ECNL thinks the best players are in the DA because the Girls DA application, signed by the club, includes this requirement under Roster Management:   _"Development Academy clubs will be required to field teams that consist of the top players from the club's entire player pool."_
> 
> If the ECNL is stating that they do not want second teams from clubs as large as Real Colorado, time appears to be running out for dual clubs.


But if they give Real Colorado two ECNL teams are they not getting a second team along with the first team?


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## El Clasico

VegasParent said:


> But if they give Real Colorado two ECNL teams are they not getting a second team along with the first team?


Correct....along with the _FIRST_ team...


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## VegasParent

El Clasico said:


> Correct....along with the _FIRST_ team...


Why would they allow that if they have a problem with second teams in their league? Just to screw DA? If Eagles didn't get two teams they did some poor negotiating.


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## shales1002

VegasParent said:


> Why would they allow that if they have a problem with second teams in their league? Just to screw DA? If Eagles didn't get two teams they did some poor negotiating.


Only clubs with two teams are those that were previously in both leagues.


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## Playmaker38

The nature of competition in Colorado soccer is significantly different to here. 

In the metro area there are only 3 truly competitive clubs on the girls side. Real, Rush and Rapids. Rapids only so because they absorbed Storm when they folded. 

Real would want 2 teams so they could maintain their competitive edge and monopoly over the best players in the Denver/ South Denver areas.


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## VegasParent

The biggest reasons I had been seeing about why clubs were leaving DA and going to ECNL was high school soccer and the sub rules. At least those seemed to be the 2 biggest. But reading this interview makes it seem like there was pressure from ECNL to the dual clubs to leave DA. Real Colorado is asking to have 2 teams in every age group and they will do it. Did the dual clubs that left previously make the same demands or did ECNL offer that to them? Is high school soccer really the reason those clubs left DA for ECNL or is it something else? Real Colorado said they would choose DA if they had to choose between the two leagues. Does that kill the "we did it for high school soccer" argument that's been used? It appears that clubs could be choosing ECNL to continue having 2 national level "elite" teams in every age group IMHO. Lots of questions that will probably never get answered.


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## shales1002

VegasParent said:


> The biggest reasons I had been seeing about why clubs were leaving DA and going to ECNL was high school soccer and the sub rules. At least those seemed to be the 2 biggest. But reading this interview makes it seem like there was pressure from ECNL to the dual clubs to leave DA. Real Colorado is asking to have 2 teams in every age group and they will do it. Did the dual clubs that left previously make the same demands or did ECNL offer that to them? Is high school soccer really the reason those clubs left DA for ECNL or is it something else? Real Colorado said they would choose DA if they had to choose between the two leagues. Does that kill the "we did it for high school soccer" argument that's been used? It appears that clubs could be choosing ECNL to continue having 2 national level "elite" teams in every age group IMHO. Lots of questions that will probably never get answered.


I think they are using the argument to get two teams per age group. If they are only allowed one team, they are letting a lot of money walk away. Five teams worth. It doesn’t kill off the we did it for high school argument , or the sub rules argument.  I believe people are listening to their markets. 

We all can agree that it’s getting pretty foolish at this point. Some areas high school does matter, and it’s foolish of GDA to continue to think otherwise.  I watched some of the featured games and I was honestly disappointed by the lack of subs being utilized in a showcase. It was freezing yesterday, and I saw a player subbed in at 68 minute mark of a u15 game. What does that do to morale?


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## Woobie06

For giggles I looked at the ECNL Showcase Locations...On the surface they seem to do a better job selecting locations for events (only seeing the 18-19 locations and no idea of previous year locations)...I also had a friend suggest why not give SD the spring showcase and another location summer where the weather might be a little more predictable than spring.  I get spreading the locations around to be fair for clubs and travel distance etc.  I don’t know which is worse, longer travel for some to the same locations where weather is less of a factor and the games get in,  or rolling the dice and spending 5 Days/4 Nights for two games. 

They could have even looked to secure the turf locations they used and attempted to use today to have the kids play on their off day when the weather was “good”...I know it goes against the no more than 2 play dates in a row programming, but sometimes you need to adjust with the circumstances.  We all knew what the weather was going to be...all you had to do is open the app on your phone.

US Soccer should have had a plan and needs to get their stuff together.  Not a good customer experience.  The poor planning did not deliver the value.  Spoke to a mom from Ohio on the shuttle to the airport and they got a call at 11pm last night that their 11am game today, got moved to 8:30am...they showed up at 7:30am and game was cancelled as the turf field was unplayable.  

I also heard some games got pushed back and some teams were scrambling to change flights/arrangements, etc.


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## MarkM

VegasParent said:


> The biggest reasons I had been seeing about why clubs were leaving DA and going to ECNL was high school soccer and the sub rules. At least those seemed to be the 2 biggest. But reading this interview makes it seem like there was pressure from ECNL to the dual clubs to leave DA. Real Colorado is asking to have 2 teams in every age group and they will do it. Did the dual clubs that left previously make the same demands or did ECNL offer that to them? Is high school soccer really the reason those clubs left DA for ECNL or is it something else? Real Colorado said they would choose DA if they had to choose between the two leagues. Does that kill the "we did it for high school soccer" argument that's been used? It appears that clubs could be choosing ECNL to continue having 2 national level "elite" teams in every age group IMHO. Lots of questions that will probably never get answered.


For the clubs that got two teams in ECNL, yes, it kills that argument.  If the market is causing clubs to revert back to ECNL, why is ECNL giving these clubs two teams?  It makes no sense for ECNL to do that.  By ECNL giving clubs two teams, ECNL is in fact admitting that the market factors in favor of ECNL (high school  soccer and sub arguments) are not enough to sway those particular clubs.  But for clubs with one ECNL team or clubs that never entered into GDA, the high school soccer and sub arguments are still viable reasons a club may choose ECNL over GDA - it's those clubs that we will never really know.


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## Simisoccerfan

VegasParent said:


> Why would they allow that if they have a problem with second teams in their league? Just to screw DA? If Eagles didn't get two teams they did some poor negotiating.


Eagles can’t field two teams at that level across the age groups.  The talent pool does not support it.


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## GeekKid

This is what I heard from various coaches and the ECNL Director for our club.  Clubs that are fielding DA and ECNL teams (Dual Clubs) have the following timeline placed upon them and only them by ECNL.  Dual Clubs must win a national championship.  After that they have two years to field a total of four team into the playoffs.  This can be accomplished by any combination of age groups and years.  For example, Solar won the ECNL championship in 2017.  At that point the clock started ticking for us to field 4 playoff teams over the next two years.  I believe we had one team in the playoffs in 2018 so we will need to field three teams in the playoffs this year to retain ECNL status or we are out.  Even more so than that, next year ECNL will expect Solar to win another championship or we will need to make a decision.  Even if Solar wins a championship next year the clock will start ticking again.  So, in other words Dual Clubs are punished by ECNL in terms of placing on them the HIGHEST standards year after year.  Eventually Dual Clubs will not be able to sustain this standard and have to decide between DA and ECNL.


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## shales1002

Simisoccerfan said:


> Eagles can’t field two teams at that level across the age groups.  The talent pool does not support it.


Eagles was only in GDA. Thus they will only have one team. The other clubs were dual clubs.  Only dual clubs have the two teams.  Fc Stars, Michigan Hawks, Crossfire, etc.


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## GeekKid

Comparing the ECNL site with GDA here are the remaining dual clubs...
Solar
Crossfire Premiere
Real Colorado
SoCal Blues
Tophat
FC Dallas

and yes it looks like a couple of clubs have two ECNL teams like Michagin Hawks, Concord Fire, FC Stars, PDA and Eclipse Select


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## El Clasico

Didn't crossfire go all in?


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## GeekKid

El Clasico said:


> Didn't crossfire go all in?


I still see Crossfire Premiere in the DA Northwest conference out of Kirkland WA.  The other ECNL Crossfire teams are Crossfire Premiere out of Redmond, WA and Crossfire United out of Portland, OR.  Not sure if there is an affiliation but the DA Crossfire team and the Crossfire Premiere in ECNL share the same logo.


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## Surf Zombie

https://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2019/02/22/crossfire-premier-is-all-in-for-2019-20/


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## CopaMundial

Woobie06 said:


> I also heard some games got pushed back and some teams were scrambling to change flights/arrangements, etc.


Yup! Found out about the changes on twitter, then got the text. Pushed our game out 30 minutes. Sounds harmless, doesn't it? But that meant a flight change because we were already a bit tight on time, but it was doable. Last minute change cost us $660.  Next afternoon, we played 3rd game in 29 degrees. The good news though, over the course of the weekend, there were 80 plus coaches at 2 of the 3 games. The 29 degree game though, had only 6. Was it worth it? For us, yes as one of those 6 stayed behind just to see our dd play. We are now home safe and warm. Very very happy that the playoffs will be in sunny so cal. Denver has some bipolar weather, for sure. But the kids said the harder part was dealing with the altitude. My kid is exhausted today. More tired than any other showcase trip we've been on. Anyone else feel that way?


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## Simisoccerfan

We play in the older age group so we did not attend the showcase (plus my dd is recovering from her acl injury) but my dd did attend the Colorado School of Mines Camp (in Golden) last summer when she was considering their offer.   Every single girl not from Colorado (or elevation) did end up spending time with altitude sickness until they got adjusted to the elevation.   I wonder how many girls got elevation sickness at the event.


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## Messi>CR7

shales1002 said:


> I watched some of the featured games and I was honestly disappointed by the lack of subs being utilized in a showcase. It was freezing yesterday, and I saw a player subbed in at 68 minute mark of a u15 game. What does that do to morale?


The DA sub rules are not enforced in showcases, right?


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## Kicker4Life

Messi>CR7 said:


> The DA sub rules are not enforced in showcases, right?


They do not modify the sub rules for showcases.


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## Simisoccerfan

Last year they allowed all 18 to play at showcases.


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## shales1002

Messi>CR7 said:


> The DA sub rules are not enforced in showcases, right?


Regardless once sub out you can’t go back in the game. This player came in the game with 12 minutes remaining in a showcase. After the pregame warm up you sit for 68 minutes! How is that fair at a showcase?


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## Kicker4Life

shales1002 said:


> Regardless once sub out you can’t go back in the game. This player came in the game with 12 minutes remaining in a showcase. After the pregame warm up you sit for 68 minutes! How is that fair at a showcase?


I get your point and although it may not be the case, it is possible that the player may have played all 80 min in the previous 2 games and was slated to rest.  She could be coming back from injury.  She could already committed so they gave another girl a chance to get some minutes during a League Showcase.

We don’t know, so let’s not get too carried away with the narrative.


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## shales1002

Kicker4Life said:


> I get your point and although it may not be the case, it is possible that the player may have played all 80 min in the previous 2 games and was slated to rest.  She could be coming back from injury.  She could already committed so they gave another girl a chance to get some minutes during a League Showcase.
> 
> We don’t know, so let’s not get too carried away with the narrative.


I will concede your narrative, but the announcer for the featured game knew everything about every player. It was the U15 game for LAGSD vs Tohpat.  Not to many committed at this point in that age group. But, if you get chance and watch it or perhaps you were there , you will see that subs were very limited in this game. And for whatever reason, that's a long way to travel to not play as it is a showcase.  I just pointed out one player who was in black. It was a good game. I enjoyed watching it. I hope all the girls find their dream school.


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## Kicker4Life

shales1002 said:


> I will concede your narrative, but the announcer for the featured game knew everything about every player. It was the U15 game for LAGSD vs Tohpat.  Not to many committed at this point in that age group. But, if you get chance and watch it or perhaps you were there , you will see that subs were very limited in this game. And for whatever reason, that's a long way to travel to not play as it is a showcase.  I just pointed out one player who was in black. It was a good game. I enjoyed watching it. I hope all the girls find their dream school.


I was there and don’t disagree with your concern, just know that there is often more than meets the eye.


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## LadiesMan217

Kicker4Life said:


> I was there and don’t disagree with your concern, just know that there is often more than meets the eye.


And I watched my DD's ECNL team play 3 games in a showcase where 2 girls played a total of maybe 20 minutes the whole showcase and that was without sub rules. Neither girl injured or commited, etc. These girls maybe played 5 minutes a game during the season if they even played - there were many games they were not rostered due to roster count. The kicker was a college coach came to watch one of the girls during the showcase and she was subbed in with a few minutes to go after the college coach was long gone. Coach knew school was there for her. Winning is more important to these top clubs.


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## Paddingtonsoccer

Kicker4Life said:


> I was there and don’t disagree with your concern, just know that there is often more than meets the eye.


What do you mean by that?


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## shales1002

LadiesMan217 said:


> And I watched my DD's ECNL team play 3 games in a showcase where 2 girls played a total of maybe 20 minutes the whole showcase and that was without sub rules. Neither girl injured or commited, etc. These girls maybe played 5 minutes a game during the season if they even played - there were many games they were not rostered due to roster count. The kicker was a college coach came to watch one of the girls during the showcase and she was subbed in with a few minutes to go after the college coach was long gone. Coach knew school was there for her. Winning is more important to these top clubs.


That is so wrong! Why would parents subject their DD to that mental anguish? If you are at a showcase, then players need to get the time in to "showcase." Why even bring them to not play them!


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## CopaMundial

shales1002 said:


> That is so wrong! Why would parents subject their DD to that mental anguish? If you are at a showcase, then players need to get the time in to "showcase." Why even bring them to not play them!


Because the wins count for the playoff standings and coaches are willing to sacrifice the win vs. the chance to play a non committed player that might be a detriment to the team. In both leagues, it's a balance of wins vs. development or showcase. I don't find either of these leagues better than the other. They are different, but depending on the coach or club, time and player management is relatively similar, regardless of rules.


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## Kicker4Life

Paddingtonsoccer said:


> What do you mean by that?


I was responding to a previous post. 

1) I was at the Showcase and the game.
2) I understand his concern about kids not getting a lot of playing time at a Showcase.
3) just because you watched 1 game on the weekend and saw the girl get subbed in late in the game, it doesn’t mean it’s a moral killer.


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## LadiesMan217

Kicker4Life said:


> I was responding to a previous post.
> 
> 1) I was at the Showcase and the game.
> 2) I understand his concern about kids not getting a lot of playing time at a Showcase.
> 3) just because you watched 1 game on the weekend and saw the girl get subbed in late in the game, it doesn’t mean it’s a moral killer.


She played 45% of the total minutes in the 3 games and plays for free including travel to the showcase. Not too bad. I have witnessed a lot worse.


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## rainbow_unicorn

shales1002 said:


> That is so wrong! Why would parents subject their DD to that mental anguish? If you are at a showcase, then players need to get the time in to "showcase." Why even bring them to not play them!


Every player does not "need" to get time in...they may "want" to get time in.  They're on the bench because coach believes kids on the field are better.  If the player/parents do not like that then they should work harder to get better.  Always have the option to quit and join a DPL team.


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## espola

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Every player does not "need" to get time in...they may "want" to get time in.  They're on the bench because coach believes kids on the field are better.  If the player/parents do not like that then they should work harder to get better.  Always have the option to quit and join a DPL team.


So much for "development".


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## rainbow_unicorn

espola said:


> So much for "development".


My comment applies to any competitive league.  I don't understand parents feeling entitled and that their kid "should" play.


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## espola

rainbow_unicorn said:


> My comment applies to any competitive league.  I don't understand parents feeling entitled and that their kid "should" play.


Maybe some parents have bought into the "development, not winning" trope.


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## Kicker4Life

rainbow_unicorn said:


> My comment applies to any competitive league.  I don't understand parents feeling entitled and that their kid "should" play.


He’s like a rash that won’t go away!


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## Just A Dad

rainbow_unicorn said:


> My comment applies to any competitive league.  I don't understand parents feeling entitled and that their kid "should" play.


I completely understand earning playing time during regular season and playoffs but my kids have never been on a team that didnt give every player alot of playing time in a showcase


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## El Clasico

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Every player does not "need" to get time in...they may "want" to get time in.  They're on the bench because coach believes kids on the field are better.  If the player/parents do not like that then they should work harder to get better.  Always have the option to quit and join a DPL team.


So the team signed up and paid to only showcase some girls?  Have showcases changed that much over the years?  Use to be that reputable coaches made a point of playing the girls that needed a little extra exposure MORE in the showcases as the results were meaningless.  With my olders, there were times when some of the stars (already committed) didn't even bother attending a showcase because the coach wanted to "showcase" girls who needed more exposure and had invited coaches out to watch. Todays environment is now a culture of win at all costs and I, for one, don't think that leads to a better end result.


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## Messi>CR7

rainbow_unicorn said:


> My comment applies to any competitive league.  I don't understand parents feeling entitled and that their kid "should" play.


In general I agree with your position for competitive sports.  However, in return coach needs to recruit and only offer spots to those that have a "realistic" chance to complete for a starter position.

I see this issue particularly with the middle to bottom level top flight teams where good players are harder to come by.  As result, kids that would've benefited more by playing on the B team were offered a spot on the A team to fill the roster quota.  I know from experience some of these kids from day 1 ended up riding the bench all year even though many did try their best.

Instead of blaming the coaches for offering spots to roster fillers, you can argue it's the parents' fault for signing a kid up for top flight when he or she is not ready.  But not every parent has soccer background or enough experience in soccer especially in the younger age group.  If my kid is offered a spot on the team, my first assumption (without seeing myself how she stacks up against others) is that she really is good enough for this team to compete for minutes.  Otherwise, why would you offer her a spot anyway?


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## Kicker4Life

El Clasico said:


> So the team signed up and paid to only showcase some girls?  Have showcases changed that much over the years?  Use to be that reputable coaches made a point of playing the girls that needed a little extra exposure MORE in the showcases as the results were meaningless.  With my olders, there were times when some of the stars (already committed) didn't even bother attending a showcase because the coach wanted to "showcase" girls who needed more exposure and had invited coaches out to watch. Todays environment is now a culture of win at all costs and I, for one, don't think that leads to a better end result.


That is true of the typical showcases i.e. Vegas.


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## shales1002

rainbow_unicorn said:


> Every player does not "need" to get time in...they may "want" to get time in.  They're on the bench because coach believes kids on the field are better.  If the player/parents do not like that then they should work harder to get better.  Always have the option to quit and join a DPL team.


@rainbow_unicorn it is a showcase and the purpose of that showcase is to be seen by college scouts/coaches.  If the coach doesn't believe in their player's ability, then they should not have the player on the team. Parents are at fault too. Options are always available, but quitting should never be the option. Perhaps finding a more appropriate level or a coach that sees what your DD brings to the table whether is be another GDA, ECNL, or any other acronym team.  The others have clarified and explained my observation.  You have only brought "you can quit or work harder." The player that I observed didn't miss a beat when she finally made it to the field. Fast and athletic.   This is no entitlement. It's a showcase! Most girls in competitive leagues are doing so for the exposure. If what you all say is true about sub rules being different, then why not play all the girls? Oh, yes, it counts for standings. The Cup you all will be chasing next year will only make it worse.


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## Paddingtonsoccer

LadiesMan217 said:


> She played 45% of the total minutes in the 3 games and plays for free including travel to the showcase. Not too bad. I have witnessed a lot worse.



How would you know she plays for free? You must have a lot of info if you know her total play time over the 3 games.  Is that your team or club?


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## VegasParent

shales1002 said:


> @rainbow_unicorn it is a showcase and the purpose of that showcase is to be seen by college scouts/coaches.  If the coach doesn't believe in their player's ability, then they should not have the player on the team. Parents are at fault too. Options are always available, but quitting should never be the option. Perhaps finding a more appropriate level or a coach that sees what your DD brings to the table whether is be another GDA, ECNL, or any other acronym team.  The others have clarified and explained my observation.  You have only brought "you can quit or work harder." The player that I observed didn't miss a beat when she finally made it to the field. Fast and athletic.   This is no entitlement. It's a showcase! Most girls in competitive leagues are doing so for the exposure. If what you all say is true about sub rules being different, then why not play all the girls? Oh, yes, it counts for standings. The Cup you all will be chasing next year will only make it worse.


I agree with everything you are saying but this is not new and not only happening with DA. My older DD played ECNL and her coach did not play some kids a lot in ECNL showcases or Players Showcase when scouts were there to see them. I remember a scrimmage with a younger ECNL team in the club where didn't play a kid because all he cared about was winning. I can almost understand the ECNL showcases because the points matter. But Players showcase? There is no excuse for not giving kids time when scouts come to see them since those games mean nothing. Yes the Cup  in DA will have coaches playing to win. But again it's not new and in my opinion will not change.


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## shales1002

VegasParent said:


> I agree with everything you are saying but this is not new and not only happening with DA. My older DD played ECNL and her coach did not play some kids a lot in ECNL showcases or Players Showcase when scouts were there to see them. I remember a scrimmage with a younger ECNL team in the club where didn't play a kid because all he cared about was winning. I can almost understand the ECNL showcases because the points matter. But Players showcase? There is no excuse for not giving kids time when scouts come to see them since those games mean nothing. Yes the Cup  in DA will have coaches playing to win. But again it's not new and in my opinion will not change.


@VegasParent it certainly isn't knew.  Showcases should just be that the avenue of exposure that we are all paying for.  Scrimmages everyone should get all the minutes...lol. It should be used to work out the kinks. But we all know that doesn't happen.


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## CaliKlines

Messi>CR7 said:


> In general I agree with your position for competitive sports.  However, in return coach needs to recruit and only offer spots to those that have a "realistic" chance to complete for a starter position.


That doesn't happen in the Pac12, why do you think that would happen at a club level showcase?


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## LadiesMan217

Paddingtonsoccer said:


> How would you know she plays for free? You must have a lot of info if you know her total play time over the 3 games.  Is that your team or club?


The club is fully funded. Play time is right on the GDA website.


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## LadiesMan217

shales1002 said:


> @rainbow_unicorn it is a showcase and the purpose of that showcase is to be seen by college scouts/coaches.  If the coach doesn't believe in their player's ability, then they should not have the player on the team. Parents are at fault too. Options are always available, but quitting should never be the option. Perhaps finding a more appropriate level or a coach that sees what your DD brings to the table whether is be another GDA, ECNL, or any other acronym team.  The others have clarified and explained my observation.  You have only brought "you can quit or work harder." The player that I observed didn't miss a beat when she finally made it to the field. Fast and athletic.   This is no entitlement. It's a showcase! Most girls in competitive leagues are doing so for the exposure. If what you all say is true about sub rules being different, then why not play all the girls? Oh, yes, it counts for standings. The Cup you all will be chasing next year will only make it worse.


The problem is GDA includes showcase games in the standings (soon to change) and standings do matter at end of season for playoffs. You will see teams at the top acting this way. Although, some big clubs will still act this way because they want to milk every stat possible to look good. They do mandate how many starts a player has along with a few other things; but, it is a competitive league like most. From a development aspect they have mandates on the training, coach credentials, etc.


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## Paddingtonsoccer

LadiesMan217 said:


> The club is fully funded. Play time is right on the GDA website.


Do you mean all the players play and travel for free?   Or are you saying that one player is getting her costs funded?  LA Galaxy SD or Tophat?


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## Surf Zombie

Looks like Tophat & Real Colorado out of ECNL.  New club map released today doesn’t show them.


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## ChalkOnYourBoots

Tophat had been rumored to be leaning that way for weeks, but I think the Real Colorado news might have been less expected. Clearly the ol' boy ECNL board is no longer dangling two teams per age to entice the top clubs. With this round going to GDA, this fight may take many more years to play out, unfortunately.


----------



## StyleOfPlay

Does anyone know if this is confirmed? That would be a huge blow to ECNL.


----------



## shales1002

StyleOfPlay said:


> Does anyone know if this is confirmed? That would be a huge blow to ECNL.


Apparently is showing that they don't care who they drop at this point. Last year it was Surf, and this year seems like Real Colorado and Tophat. But those two clubs have a very large pool of NT players. We all know Real  Colorado would be ECNL if they were allowed two teams. Apparently, ECNL was like "no not today."  The question I have is why does ECNL seem unphased ?


----------



## Kicker4Life

shales1002 said:


> Apparently is showing that they don't care who they drop at this point. Last year it was Surf, and this year seems like Real Colorado and Tophat. But those two clubs have a very large pool of NT players. We all know Real  Colorado would be ECNL if they were allowed two teams. Apparently, ECNL was like "no not today."  The question I have is why does ECNL seem unphased ?


Because well established leagues aren’t built upon 2 or 3 solid clubs.


----------



## Chris Knight

StyleOfPlay said:


> Does anyone know if this is confirmed? *That would be a huge blow to ECNL*.


*Really*?  Are the second teams at Tophat and Real CO that strong?

And I'd bet that we'll soon find that FC Dallas will be joining these two next year --


----------



## Mile High Dad

Real CO had their ECNL teams play a total of 5 games in the showcase and won 4 out of 5 games.


----------



## Chris Knight

Mile High Dad said:


> Real CO had their ECNL teams play a total of 5 games in the showcase and won 4 out of 5 games.


Saw that Mile High ... congrats to (you, and) your kiddo --

Guessing you're thinking that the comp wasn't a factor in those matches?  How do you think the Real CO U15 ECNL side would fare against that DA squad?


----------



## Mile High Dad

Probably not very well, that DA squad is much more athletic. But on any given weekend ... The CO Rush DA team also isn't as athletic as the Real team but always gives them a tough battle. Rivalries fuel some nice battles on the pitch.


----------



## Chris Knight

Mile High Dad said:


> Probably not very well, that DA squad is much more athletic. But on any given weekend ... The CO Rush DA team also isn't as athletic as the Real team but always gives them a tough battle. Rivalries fuel some nice battles on the pitch.


Agreed Sir --

And because it seems you're in the mix ... a couple questions for you ...

1)  Are the same 'Real Colorado II' teams going to be participating in Oceanside next month as 'Showcase' teams?

2)  Will the club be consolidating the ECNL talent into GDA and other teams after this year?  If not, where will those teams be sticking together and playing in another league next year?

3)  Since the club delivered the 'no ECNL going forward' news, has there been a lot of backlash or talk of hopping amongst players/parents?  Asking because we have a feeling the same is about to happen at FC Dallas.

Thanks!


----------



## Mile High Dad

Chris, all this is still in flux. There was always some consolidation for the few cherished DA openings that sometimes occur and I would guess would still be the case. There has been a lot of discussion of club hopping (CO Rapids is the only ECNL club in CO). DPL could also be a viable option and could somewhat mimic the Frontier League.


----------



## VegasParent

Based on the latest ECNL map, FC Dallas is out.


----------



## Desert Hound

VegasParent said:


> Based on the latest ECNL map, FC Dallas is out.


That is because they have gone the DPL route. 

DPL is expanding this coming year. http://dpleague.org/docs/2019_press_release.pdf


----------



## timbuck

Desert Hound said:


> That is because they have gone the DPL route.
> 
> DPL is expanding this coming year. http://dpleague.org/docs/2019_press_release.pdf


So they are going "all in" with DA?


----------



## timmyh

timbuck said:


> So they are going "all in" with DA?


Yes. FCD, Tophat, and Real Colorado are all-in with DA.  By my count, that just leaves Solar and Blues as dual DA/ECNL clubs. Solar is deep enough that their 2nd teams compete well in ECNL. Blues has Baker and J Serra to thank for a couple of ECNL natties whereby their top team in a few age groups were in ECNL instead of DA. Thus, both clubs met the criteria to not be forced to choose.

Even though they are top 10 clubs, none of FCD, Tophat, or Real Colorado were politically connected enough with the ECNL board (or they had powerful regional opponents with those connections) to get the "two teams" that were offered to PDA, Hawks, Sting, Stars, or Concord Fire in return for dropping the DA.


----------



## oh canada

This sound right?  DA schedule vs. ECNL:

DA - approx 30 games from September 1 - end May/early June
ECNL - approx 20 games

DA showcases in December and April (Florida and Colorado, respectively)
ECNL showcases - 2 in Phoenix for CA teams (can go to others across country if desired)

ECNL has longer break Nov-Mar to accommodate high school soccer season

ECNL and DA national playoffs both in San Diego end of June/early July


----------



## vegasguy

And some ECNL teams will play Tournaments throughout the year.  So will DA but those must have designated DA brackets because they can not play non-DA sanctioned events.


----------



## espola

vegasguy said:


> And some ECNL teams will play Tournaments throughout the year.  So will DA but those must have designated DA brackets because they can not play non-DA sanctioned events.


How sanitary of them.


----------



## timbuck

Can’t lose to a non-DA team if you don’t play a non-DA team. So smart!!!


----------



## MarkM

timbuck said:


> Can’t lose to a non-DA team if you don’t play a non-DA team. So smart!!!


Not so smart.  Any team can play against the DA teams.  The games must be played under DA game rules.  No hockey line substitutions.


----------



## BigSoccer

MarkM said:


> Not so smart.  Any team can play against the DA teams.  The games must be played under DA game rules.  No hockey line substitutions.


Why do they only have to play by DA rules? Are DA rules better?


----------



## MarkM

BigSoccer said:


> Why do they only have to play by DA rules? Are DA rules better?


In my opinion, yes.  But you could ask that about anything.  ECNL teams don't play by AYSO rules.  Are ECNL rules better?  I'm sure ECNL thinks so, otherwise it won't use them.


----------



## RedCard

MarkM said:


> Not so smart.  Any team can play against the DA teams.  The games must be played under DA game rules.  No hockey line substitutions.


Now what I'm about to say is in regards of the boys DA side, but I'm not sure about this. This weekend was the FC Golden State Cup tournament. I know that there was no DA bracket for the Boys 05s so the FCGS DA B05 played in the Boys 04 brackets with an ECNL team and 2 flight 1 teams. I believe there was unlimited subs as there was only 1 DA team in the bracket. Now, FCGS did win only 1 game and lost 2 but were playing up in the next age group, so I sure they are not please with the results. And yes, the ECNL team beat the DA team...


----------



## BigSoccer

MarkM said:


> In my opinion, yes.  But you could ask that about anything.  ECNL teams don't play by AYSO rules.  Are ECNL rules better?  I'm sure ECNL thinks so, otherwise it won't use them.


That is a non answer.  Why are DA Rules better?  I have a child in a regular club that is neither DA or ECNL.. so why cant DA play by ECNL rules in a tournament...  is the difference so great one could not compete with the based on rules...


----------



## jpeter

The FIFA sub rules for the olders in DA where basically only 15 players(11 + 4 subs) play and the 23 Regular season games for example limit playing time / opportuniites unless your a starter.

Even when you add in a couple showcase ratio to practices (4x 10 months)  to acutal games minutes over 10 months is sometime difficult for certain players.

DA tournaments few and far between, brackets only normally up to u14-15 even at Surf, Man City, etc.  That and the combined age groups for the boys makes for few opportunities for the olders domestily.


----------



## dk_b

oh canada said:


> ECNL has longer break Nov-Mar to accommodate high school soccer season


Keep in mind that only 4 or 5 states have winter HS. The rest are pretty split between fall and winter. 

The break out here for ECNL works because, unlike DA, scheduling is decentralized (other than showcases and playoffs). ECNL clubs and conferences have a lot of flexibility in scheduling and that allows clubs to accommodate the different HS seasons. It looks like it would be pretty easy for GDA to accommodate a winter HS break but since 45 or so states don’t play in HS, the broad policy makes more sense (or so it is believed).


----------



## espola

jpeter said:


> The FIFA sub rules for the olders in DA where basically only 15 players(11 + 4 subs) play and the 23 Regular season games for example limit playing time / opportuniites unless your a starter.
> 
> Even when you add in a couple showcase ratio to practices (4x 10 months)  to acutal games minutes over 10 months is sometime difficult for certain players.
> 
> DA tournaments few and far between, brackets only normally up to u14-15 even at Surf, Man City, etc.  That and the combined age groups for the boys makes for few opportunities for the olders domestily.


The pointlessly restricted substitution rules are a stumbling block for coaches wanting to honestly practice development in face of some fairyland of "just like the grownups do" claims.


----------



## oh canada

dk_b said:


> Keep in mind that only 4 or 5 states have winter HS. The rest are pretty split between fall and winter.
> 
> The break out here for ECNL works because, unlike DA, scheduling is decentralized (other than showcases and playoffs). ECNL clubs and conferences have a lot of flexibility in scheduling and that allows clubs to accommodate the different HS seasons. It looks like it would be pretty easy for GDA to accommodate a winter HS break but since 45 or so states don’t play in HS, the broad policy makes more sense (or so it is believed).


ah, good point.  easy to forget we are spoiled with our "winter" here in CA.  So, how does it work for clubs in the midwest, for example, if high school season is in the spring...say March-May, what do the ECNL clubs do  November - March?  Play indoors?  Futsal?  Other?  (Or Colorado for that matter--I know we have some CO folks on here).  And then they go play in the December showcases without having played outdoors for a month or two?  Seems like if playing high school in a state with a cold winter, club teams allowing high school play may have only 6 months of outdoor consistent play together?  

From November to March, DA teams here are still practicing 3-4x/week even though no games.  Are the "cold weather" DA clubs not practicing during the winter?  If not, first reaction might be that's how CA teams get a competitive advantage--more practice time.  However, if cold weather clubs are competitive with CA, which it seems they are, then maybe the answer is less is more and CA clubs would actually be better served practicing less or transitioning to futsal or other during Nov-Mar?


----------



## Kicker4Life

oh canada said:


> From November to March, DA teams here are still practicing 3-4x/week even though no games.  Are the "cold weather" DA clubs not practicing during the winter?  If not, first reaction might be that's how CA teams get a competitive advantage--more practice time.  However, if cold weather clubs are competitive with CA, which it seems they are, then maybe the answer is less is more and CA clubs would actually be better served practicing less or transitioning to futsal or other during Nov-Mar?


DA Clubs break from early Dec (after the Showcase) thru early Jan.  Not sure what DA clubs you are referring to that train Nov - March.


----------



## oh canada

Kicker4Life said:


> DA Clubs break from early Dec (after the Showcase) thru early Jan.  Not sure what DA clubs you are referring to that train Nov - March.


true but general point still the same, restated...but for 3-4 weeks in December/Jan, DA clubs are training 3-4x/week Nov.-Mar. in CA


----------



## dk_b

oh canada said:


> ah, good point.  easy to forget we are spoiled with our "winter" here in CA.  So, how does it work for clubs in the midwest, for example, if high school season is in the spring...say March-May, what do the ECNL clubs do  November - March?  Play indoors?  Futsal?  Other?  (Or Colorado for that matter--I know we have some CO folks on here).  And then they go play in the December showcases without having played outdoors for a month or two?  Seems like if playing high school in a state with a cold winter, club teams allowing high school play may have only 6 months of outdoor consistent play together?
> 
> From November to March, DA teams here are still practicing 3-4x/week even though no games.  Are the "cold weather" DA clubs not practicing during the winter?  If not, first reaction might be that's how CA teams get a competitive advantage--more practice time.  However, if cold weather clubs are competitive with CA, which it seems they are, then maybe the answer is less is more and CA clubs would actually be better served practicing less or transitioning to futsal or other during Nov-Mar?


If you look at the ECNL schedules for the different clubs, you will see great variety by region - some front-load everything in the fall, others play very little until spring - and you can figure out when they play HS in that area.  Not surprisingly, SoCal and NorCal are pretty balanced around the HS break in the middle.

Here's a helpful chart:  http://www.nfhs.org/media/1018591/soccer-state_association_competition_dates_report_-2018-19.pdf (I was wrong - there are 6 winter HS seasons, not 4 (I think that may have been a change but, whatever, it is still a relatively small #)


----------



## ToonArmy

Blues wins an ECNL national championship so does this mean they can keep a dual club DA and ECNL status for a few more years?


----------



## futboldad1

ToonArmy said:


> Blues wins an ECNL national championship so does this mean they can keep a dual club DA and ECNL status for a few more years?


Yes. But it's year to year, they need to win a National Championship every year to retain it. Once they don't, they'll most likely pick ECNL say my sources.


----------



## MarkM

futboldad1 said:


> Yes. But it's year to year, they need to win a National Championship every year to retain it. Once they don't, they'll most likely pick ECNL say my sources.


What's keeping the Blues in DA?


----------



## outside!

MarkM said:


> What's keeping the Blues in DA?


$$$$


----------



## futboldad1

outside! said:


> $$$$


 Accurate. Plus GDA aren't making them choose and ECNL can't due to the National titles. As the only dual club in Socal they have a big advantage being able to offer both top leagues to families. Some of their best teams are in ECNL, some in GDA, while their second teams are stronger than most other clubs as they will play in one of these leagues unlike anyone else can offer. That's huge for recruiting.


----------



## Fact

Just curious, how does the Blues decide which team will be the top tea in an age group?  Do they let players pick which league they want to play on and then the top team is organically made or do they assign players to a certain team?

And which teams in DA are their first team vs their second team?  Do they top teams start out as DA and then as girls get recruited switch to ECNL?


----------



## Kicker4Life

Fact said:


> Just curious, how does the Blues decide which team will be the top tea in an age group?  Do they let players pick which league they want to play on and then the top team is organically made or do they assign players to a certain team?
> 
> And which teams in DA are their first team vs their second team?  Do they top teams start out as DA and then as girls get recruited switch to ECNL?


U18/19 1st Team is ECNL.


----------



## timbuck

Fact said:


> Just curious, how does the Blues decide which team will be the top tea in an age group?  Do they let players pick which league they want to play on and then the top team is organically made or do they assign players to a certain team?
> 
> And which teams in DA are their first team vs their second team?  Do they top teams start out as DA and then as girls get recruited switch to ECNL?


U18/19 first team is ECNL coached by Baker.  And the majority of those girls play high school at J Serra Catholic High School, which is also coached by Baker.  Completely dominant team for years.  So for this team it makes sense to stay ECNL for high school play purposes.

For the rest of their teams-  I am not sure how they decide which team is top.  Or which players go to which team.  I think if a player is good enough, they let her choose.
They (and I'm sure other clubs) manage the rules/loopholes to move some kids back and forth once in a while.
There was a thread the other day on dual carded ECNL and DA players.  http://socalsoccer.com/threads/dual-card-da-and-ecnl.17619/


----------



## With Pace

timbuck said:


> U18/19 first team is ECNL coached by Baker.  And the majority of those girls play high school at J Serra Catholic High School, which is also coached by Baker.  Completely dominant team for years.  So for this team it makes sense to stay ECNL for high school play purposes.
> 
> For the rest of their teams-  I am not sure how they decide which team is top.  Or which players go to which team.  I think if a player is good enough, they let her choose.
> They (and I'm sure other clubs) manage the rules/loopholes to move some kids back and forth once in a while.
> There was a thread the other day on dual carded ECNL and DA players.  http://socalsoccer.com/threads/dual-card-da-and-ecnl.17619/


For age groups that have both ecnl and da, the only time the A team is ecnl at Blues is if Baker is the coach.   Otherwise, the A team is da.  However, there are a few girls that are good enough to make the A team (DA) and have elected instead to play ECNL instead (either at Blues or elsewhere) because they want to play for their high school team.


----------



## timbuck

And there are some girls on DA only clubs that choose to play DPL (sometimes even a year up) so they can play high school.
DA either needs to allow high school play or draw a hard line in the sand with DA teams that you need to have your top players on the DA team.


----------



## Fact

Kicker4Life said:


> U18/19 1st Team is ECNL.


So next year what happens?  This team graduates and then all the top teams are in DA?  Or does Baker talk the players that attend or want to attend J Serra into playing ECNL?  Or do kiddos jump at the chance to play for Baker and his ECNL team because they like to be yelled at?

I thought this team was ENCL because they were dominating before DA came into the picture, a lot of the players were already recruited and did not feel the need for DA. Not sure whether Blues will continue to have such strong success in ECNL if they allow the players to pick. Most stronger players and parents have been brainwashed into thinking DA is the only means for kiddos to be recruited.


----------



## Mystery Train

Fact said:


> So next year what happens?  This team graduates and then all the top teams are in DA?  Or does Baker talk the players that attend or want to attend J Serra into playing ECNL?  Or do kiddos jump at the chance to play for Baker and his ECNL team because they like to be yelled at?
> 
> I thought this team was ENCL because they were dominating before DA came into the picture, a lot of the players were already recruited and did not feel the need for DA. Not sure whether Blues will continue to have such strong success in ECNL if they allow the players to pick. Most stronger players and parents have been brainwashed into thinking DA is the only means for kiddos to be recruited.


The U18/19 composite team which won the National ECNL title this year was largely made of their old 02 team.   The old 01 team (with some 02’s mixed in)  played U18 and also won this past weekend.  Both coached by Baker.  Likely, with so many 02’s between both and some trapped 01’s, and a few of the better 03’s, they will again dominate the U18/19 age group next year with Baker.  The only question is if he can field a U18 and a composite team and win national championships in both again.  Probably so.  Then he’ll repeat what he did with the ‘02’s and 01’s and start again from scratch with teams around U10. As for which league, it’s anybody’s guess what the club does overall.  But given that Baker is a HS coach, I’m gonna guess ECNL is it... unless DA drops the no HS rule.  But even that might be too little too late.


----------



## Ellejustus

I thought this team was ENCL because they were dominating before DA came into the picture, a lot of the players were already recruited and did not feel the need for DA. Not sure whether Blues will continue to have such strong success in ECNL if they allow the players to pick. Most stronger players and parents have been brainwashed into thinking DA is the only means for kiddos to be recruited.[/QUOTE]

My dd is going to find out 12 months from now.  I don't think kids get brainwashed as much as the parents do.  As a parent it's hard to walk away from watching your dd play at the highest levels in SoCal the past 7 years.  The coaches and US Soccer are preaching, "don't play HS Soccer or ECNL, it will hurt your dd chances of being recruited.  It's funny because it's the same coaches who sold ECNL two years ago.   After playing first year of DA when it started and 50/50 ECNL  and DA this year, it's going to be ECNL full time for 2019-2020 as a 10th grader.  I believe college coaches recruit soccer players, not teams.  My dd is the one who made this decision and I'm 100% behind her.  She gets to play club with friends from HS and play for her community High School.  If she works hard I'm sure the same colleges who would have watched her play in the DA will also see her play in ECNL.  The only one's missing are the US National Team Scouts.......lol!


----------



## With Pace

Mystery Train said:


> The U18/19 composite team which won the National ECNL title this year was largely made of their old 02 team.   The old 01 team (with some 02’s mixed in)  played U18 and also won this past weekend.  Both coached by Baker.  Likely, with so many 02’s between both and some trapped 01’s, and a few of the better 03’s, they will again dominate the U18/19 age group next year with Baker.  The only question is if he can field a U18 and a composite team and win national championships in both again.  Probably so.  Then he’ll repeat what he did with the ‘02’s and 01’s and start again from scratch with teams around U10. As for which league, it’s anybody’s guess what the club does overall.  But given that Baker is a HS coach, I’m gonna guess ECNL is it... unless DA drops the no HS rule.  But even that might be too little too late.


The u16 Blues team did well in ECNL this year too and is moving on at a shot for the ECNL National Championship, but it is coached by Abner Rogers.  I assume that team will stay together and be a strong ECNL team again next year.  Also, Baker is taking the Blues 07 team into ECNL this upcoming season.  I suspect they will be very strong and compete for the ECNL championship too.  If Baker is able to successfully keep that team together, it should do well in ECNL for years.  The younger parents have bought into what he did with the older girls (nearly all of them are moving on to play D1).


----------



## futboldad1

With Pace said:


> The u16 Blues team did well in ECNL this year too and is moving on at a shot for the ECNL National Championship, but it is coached by Abner Rogers.  I assume that team will stay together and be a strong ECNL team again next year.  Also, Baker is taking the Blues 07 team into ECNL this upcoming season.  I suspect they will be very strong and compete for the ECNL championship too.  If Baker is able to successfully keep that team together, it should do well in ECNL for years.  The younger parents have bought into what he did with the older girls (nearly all of them are moving on to play D1).


The above is correct.


----------



## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> I thought this team was ENCL because they were dominating before DA came into the picture, a lot of the players were already recruited and did not feel the need for DA. Not sure whether Blues will continue to have such strong success in ECNL if they allow the players to pick. Most stronger players and parents have been brainwashed into thinking DA is the only means for kiddos to be recruited.


My dd is going to find out 12 months from now.  I don't think kids get brainwashed as much as the parents do.  As a parent it's hard to walk away from watching your dd play at the highest levels in SoCal the past 7 years.  The coaches and US Soccer are preaching, "don't play HS Soccer or ECNL, it will hurt your dd chances of being recruited.  It's funny because it's the same coaches who sold ECNL two years ago.   After playing first year of DA when it started and 50/50 ECNL  and DA this year, it's going to be ECNL full time for 2019-2020 as a 10th grader.  I believe college coaches recruit soccer players, not teams.  My dd is the one who made this decision and I'm 100% behind her.  She gets to play club with friends from HS and play for her community High School.  If she works hard I'm sure the same colleges who would have watched her play in the DA will also see her play in ECNL.  The only one's missing are the US National Team Scouts.......lol![/QUOTE]
Are there really places in the USA where the “community” cares and attends female high school soccer games?  If a young lady is attending an elite private school to play soccer, is that really her “community” and again, does that community legitimately care about female high school soccer?  I ask because when I talk about this issue with others, they laugh at me and invariably say “dude no one cares about female high school soccer accept the girls parents.”  I know the only girl in my community who’s soccer accomplishments that I’m aware of are my daughters.  So, what am I missing?


----------



## wc_baller

MacDre said:


> Are there really places in the USA where the “community” cares and attends female high school soccer games?  If a young lady is attending an elite private school to play soccer, is that really her “community” and again, does that community legitimately care about female high school soccer?  I ask because when I talk about this issue with others, they laugh at me and invariably say “dude no one cares about female high school soccer accept the girls parents.”  I know the only girl in my community who’s soccer accomplishments that I’m aware of are my daughters.  So, what am I missing?


It depends on the community. I remember back when my daughter was in 8th grade. The suburban town where we live has two middle schools, and the kids from both schools interact and know each other since the community is compact. That year both middle schools’ 8th grade girls teams very good because the local ECNL team for that age was very good and so was the 2nd team from the club, and just about all of the  girls from the area played for their school team that year. The league game between the two middle schools was hyped - parents, siblings, grandparents, teachers, friends came in bunches to watch the game. It was an atmosphere you’ll never see at a club game. Those kids still remember that game at continue to play at a very high level in club and high school.


----------



## timbuck

MacDre said:


> My dd is going to find out 12 months from now.  I don't think kids get brainwashed as much as the parents do.  As a parent it's hard to walk away from watching your dd play at the highest levels in SoCal the past 7 years.  The coaches and US Soccer are preaching, "don't play HS Soccer or ECNL, it will hurt your dd chances of being recruited.  It's funny because it's the same coaches who sold ECNL two years ago.   After playing first year of DA when it started and 50/50 ECNL  and DA this year, it's going to be ECNL full time for 2019-2020 as a 10th grader.  I believe college coaches recruit soccer players, not teams.  My dd is the one who made this decision and I'm 100% behind her.  She gets to play club with friends from HS and play for her community High School.  If she works hard I'm sure the same colleges who would have watched her play in the DA will also see her play in ECNL.  The only one's missing are the US National Team Scouts.......lol!


Are there really places in the USA where the “community” cares and attends female high school soccer games?  If a young lady is attending an elite private school to play soccer, is that really her “community” and again, does that community legitimately care about female high school soccer?  I ask because when I talk about this issue with others, they laugh at me and invariably say “dude no one cares about female high school soccer accept the girls parents.”  I know the only girl in my community who’s soccer accomplishments that I’m aware of are my daughters.  So, what am I missing?[/QUOTE]

If the high school athletic directors would put in the effort-  I think girls high school soccer could become a very popular sport for spectators. (Probably not the level of football, but close). 
Many games are played at 4pm in the middle of the week.  Move those to Friday under the lights.  Or Saturday afternoon.  Attendance will increase.   Get the school band out there.  Maybe the dance/cheerleading team.  Throw a few u8 teams on the field at halftime to play a quick game (AYSO or club). 
Of the many things that need to change in the US for us to become a better soccer nation-   Culture is at the top of the list.


----------



## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> My dd is going to find out 12 months from now.  I don't think kids get brainwashed as much as the parents do.  As a parent it's hard to walk away from watching your dd play at the highest levels in SoCal the past 7 years.  The coaches and US Soccer are preaching, "don't play HS Soccer or ECNL, it will hurt your dd chances of being recruited.  It's funny because it's the same coaches who sold ECNL two years ago.   After playing first year of DA when it started and 50/50 ECNL  and DA this year, it's going to be ECNL full time for 2019-2020 as a 10th grader.  I believe college coaches recruit soccer players, not teams.  My dd is the one who made this decision and I'm 100% behind her.  She gets to play club with friends from HS and play for her community High School.  If she works hard I'm sure the same colleges who would have watched her play in the DA will also see her play in ECNL.  The only one's missing are the US National Team Scouts.......lol!


Are there really places in the USA where the “community” cares and attends female high school soccer games?  If a young lady is attending an elite private school to play soccer, is that really her “community” and again, does that community legitimately care about female high school soccer?  I ask because when I talk about this issue with others, they laugh at me and invariably say “dude no one cares about female high school soccer accept the girls parents.”  I know the only girl in my community who’s soccer accomplishments that I’m aware of are my daughters.  So, what am I missing?[/QUOTE]
Well, for her local, non private HS school its a good thing.  Not saying the city shuts down to go watch the girls play but her school friends come and show up to watch.  I saw it first hand and it was fun for her


----------



## soccer dude

Many of our HS games are full capacity in the stands at Santiago HS.  CIF Div1 is a sold-out crowd which we make every year so that's where the fun comes in.  The year we won Regionals (5 years ago), stands were busting from the seams, event with the $15 cover charge so yes, there is some value in HS girls soccer.  I would also agree though that if your HS team can't make CIF, it's not worth it.  League games are a joke most of the time since most HS teams suck.


----------



## Mystery Train

From what I've seen, it varies greatly from school to school depending on all the things listed above.  Some schools have robust athletic programs and some communities are much more connected to their public HS sports than others.  My daughter's HS AD makes every coach in every sport engage their teams in community related projects and service hours.  So there is definitely a community aspect.  Yeah, most of the spectators are going to be family members, but at my kids' school a lot of the student body (friends and the boys team) will turn out for home games too.  As someone else said, the game times are also great.  Generally, she enjoyed the HS game atmosphere more than club, even if the soccer was bad and her coach sucked.  She gained nothing soccer wise from playing HS and I would argue that it may have been slightly detrimental to her in the short run as far as technical form.  She's probably even going to skip next year for that reason.  But that being said, she gained a lot socially at her school from playing, and it made a positive impact in the big picture for her as a teenager dealing with teenage life.  I highly recommend it as long as there is an atmosphere of support and excitement around the school's sports programs (as not every school enjoys that sort of thing).


----------



## oh canada

Every current player on the USWNT played high school soccer.  And all but 2 played college.  One of those two is now regretting not playing college.


----------



## Dummy

Mystery Train said:


> From what I've seen, it varies greatly from school to school depending on all the things listed above.  Some schools have robust athletic programs and some communities are much more connected to their public HS sports than others.  My daughter's HS AD makes every coach in every sport engage their teams in community related projects and service hours.  So there is definitely a community aspect.  Yeah, most of the spectators are going to be family members, but at my kids' school a lot of the student body (friends and the boys team) will turn out for home games too.  As someone else said, the game times are also great.  Generally, she enjoyed the HS game atmosphere more than club, even if the soccer was bad and her coach sucked.  She gained nothing soccer wise from playing HS and I would argue that it may have been slightly detrimental to her in the short run as far as technical form.  She's probably even going to skip next year for that reason.  But that being said, she gained a lot socially at her school from playing, and it made a positive impact in the big picture for her as a teenager dealing with teenage life.  I highly recommend it as long as there is an atmosphere of support and excitement around the school's sports programs (as not every school enjoys that sort of thing).


My family went to watch fireworks at the high school field last night.  My daughter is heading off to college next month (she will be playing soccer), and I was sitting there next to her thinking about watching her score her first goal in the first game there her freshman year in a losing effort, her last goal in her last game there as a senior to secure a league title, and lots of goals there in between, including some huge goals during a CIF championship run.  I was thinking about how fun her high school soccer experience was for our family.  I wondered aloud she remembers the experience, especially the big games when the stands were full.  She gave me a funny look and said “I never looked up at the stands.”

For her, the most important source of support and excitement was her teammates.  She absolutely loved playing with her friends, and everything else was a distraction.  Whether club or high school, the opportunity to play soccer with friends is probably what matters most for the vast majority of players.

Good luck to your player whatever she chooses!


----------



## futboldad1

oh canada said:


> Every current player on the USWNT played high school soccer.  And all but 2 played college.  One of those two is now regretting not playing college.


It’s a rite of passage. At least let the kid’s pick will be my stance when my 06 hits HS


----------



## Ellejustus

"For her, the most important source of support and excitement was her teammates.  She absolutely loved playing with her friends, and everything else was a distraction.  Whether club or high school, the opportunity to play soccer with friends is probably what matters most for the vast majority of players."

Thank you for this post   Good luck to your dd next year in college.


----------



## jpeter

Dummy said:


> My family went to watch fireworks at the high school field last night.  My daughter is heading off to college next month (she will be playing soccer), and I was sitting there next to her thinking about watching her score her first goal in the first game there her freshman year in a losing effort, her last goal in her last game there as a senior to secure a league title, and lots of goals there in between, including some huge goals during a CIF championship run.  I was thinking about how fun her high school soccer experience was for our family.  I wondered aloud she remembers the experience, especially the big games when the stands were full.  She gave me a funny look and said “I never looked up at the stands.”
> 
> For her, the most important source of support and excitement was her teammates.  She absolutely loved playing with her friends, and everything else was a distraction.  Whether club or high school, the opportunity to play soccer with friends is probably what matters most for the vast majority of players.
> 
> Good luck to your player whatever she chooses!


Amen to that, our  daughter played 4 years in HS and loved it.   Track or volleyball 3 out of 4 years also.  ECNL 2 seasons and enjoyed that as well.

She turned down mutiple offers to jump to other teams;  DA, clubs and even  several college acceptances.   Making the  decisions on her own personal beliefs, preferences, visits, and interaction with the people involved is something that has served her well.

I remembered her asking several times for advice and we always tired not to give direct recommendations or preferences but rather things to consider.  Was happy with her decisions and proud  she is doing well in college so far.


----------



## Kicker4Life

jpeter said:


> Making the  decisions on her own personal beliefs, preferences, visits, and interaction with the people involved is something that has served her well.
> 
> I remembered her asking several times for advice and we always tired not to give direct recommendations or preferences but rather things to consider.  Was happy with her decisions and proud  she is doing well in college so far.


Well said....let the kids decide what they want to do, the cream will rise to the top. Always does, always will.


----------



## Blank95661

oh canada said:


> Every current player on the USWNT played high school soccer.  And all but 2 played college.  One of those two is now regretting not playing college.


Which one is regretting not playing in college?


----------



## oh canada

Blank95661 said:


> Which one is regretting not playing in college?


MP


----------



## oh canada

posted this also in the "GU16 National Team" thread where it is also relevant...apologies if you're reading 2x...

I missed the below quote from SoccerNation when it came out last October, but worth posting in this thread as it sheds more light on her philosophy. My biggest issue with the DA and all-encompassing requirements/dedication is its simply a couple years too early. Especially now since college coaches can have NO contact before summer going into junior year, asking 13 year olds to make a decision about complete dedication to soccer vs. other sports/activities is premature. Both my sons and daughter were just starting to discover their interests at 12/13. Better for DA to start sophomore year in HS, 15yrs. Especially since the science, yes science, shows that soccer talent/ability really doesn't start to show until 15yrs old, when most players are mature or close to it. And burnout/overuse injuries are becoming an epidemic.  That's science and logic, the below is not... 

*Mirelle van Rijbroek* is the Director of Talent Identification for US Soccer. I asked her to explain US Soccer’s decision to not allow DA players to play for their high school teams.

“Imagine you get into Harvard. You go to Harvard, and you’re in a very high-level environment. There are big group projects to work on that are crucial to your education. Those projects are going to help you learn how to handle huge stressful situations later in life. But then you want to take a few months off to go to a different school for a while. Think Harvard will be OK with that? You think that’s going to be beneficial to your Harvard education? Furthermore, you’ll be leaving the members of your group without an important member of the team, while you take a few months to go do something else. It’s not fair to the group left behind. Additionally, it’s not going to be good for your own education. You can’t just leave for a few months.”


----------



## espola

oh canada said:


> posted this also in the "GU16 National Team" thread where it is also relevant...apologies if you're reading 2x...
> 
> I missed the below quote from SoccerNation when it came out last October, but worth posting in this thread as it sheds more light on her philosophy. My biggest issue with the DA and all-encompassing requirements/dedication is its simply a couple years too early. Especially now since college coaches can have NO contact before summer going into junior year, asking 13 year olds to make a decision about complete dedication to soccer vs. other sports/activities is premature. Both my sons and daughter were just starting to discover their interests at 12/13. Better for DA to start sophomore year in HS, 15yrs. Especially since the science, yes science, shows that soccer talent/ability really doesn't start to show until 15yrs old, when most players are mature or close to it. And burnout/overuse injuries are becoming an epidemic.  That's science and logic, the below is not...
> 
> *Mirelle van Rijbroek* is the Director of Talent Identification for US Soccer. I asked her to explain US Soccer’s decision to not allow DA players to play for their high school teams.
> 
> “Imagine you get into Harvard. You go to Harvard, and you’re in a very high-level environment. There are big group projects to work on that are crucial to your education. Those projects are going to help you learn how to handle huge stressful situations later in life. But then you want to take a few months off to go to a different school for a while. Think Harvard will be OK with that? You think that’s going to be beneficial to your Harvard education? Furthermore, you’ll be leaving the members of your group without an important member of the team, while you take a few months to go do something else. It’s not fair to the group left behind. Additionally, it’s not going to be good for your own education. You can’t just leave for a few months.”


Is that an argument in favor of or in opposition to players choosing the DA route?


----------



## Ellejustus

espola said:


> Is that an argument in favor of or in opposition to players choosing the DA route?





oh canada said:


> posted this also in the "GU16 National Team" thread where it is also relevant...apologies if you're reading 2x...
> 
> I missed the below quote from SoccerNation when it came out last October, but worth posting in this thread as it sheds more light on her philosophy. My biggest issue with the DA and all-encompassing requirements/dedication is its simply a couple years too early. Especially now since college coaches can have NO contact before summer going into junior year, asking 13 year olds to make a decision about complete dedication to soccer vs. other sports/activities is premature. Both my sons and daughter were just starting to discover their interests at 12/13. Better for DA to start sophomore year in HS, 15yrs. Especially since the science, yes science, shows that soccer talent/ability really doesn't start to show until 15yrs old, when most players are mature or close to it. And burnout/overuse injuries are becoming an epidemic.  That's science and logic, the below is not...
> 
> *Mirelle van Rijbroek* is the Director of Talent Identification for US Soccer. I asked her to explain US Soccer’s decision to not allow DA players to play for their high school teams.
> 
> “Imagine you get into Harvard. You go to Harvard, and you’re in a very high-level environment. There are big group projects to work on that are crucial to your education. Those projects are going to help you learn how to handle huge stressful situations later in life. But then you want to take a few months off to go to a different school for a while. Think Harvard will be OK with that? You think that’s going to be beneficial to your Harvard education? Furthermore, you’ll be leaving the members of your group without an important member of the team, while you take a few months to go do something else. It’s not fair to the group left behind. Additionally, it’s not going to be good for your own education. You can’t just leave for a few months.”


I can't yell enough what I have personally watched with my own eyes regarding the pressure and stress their putting on 12 and 13 year olds.  "100% soccer and 100% DA or else.   Why?  My dd at that time wasn't even thinking she wanted to go to college (does now and is 15 and 1oth grader).  She just wanted to be on a team that competes for a championship.  That year we had none for our age group.  So lame!!!  How about this: My kid came off winning the US National Championship in July 2017.  In September 2017 DA started.  Fast forward to April 2018 first DA Showcase in NC.  Over 100 D1 college coaches in one corner and Jill Ellis and all the US Scouts on the sideline watching my kid play and her team of other 7th and 8th graders play soccer in 32 degree weather.  Sounds exciting right?  Not for my kid.  Too soon and too early.  I like 10th grade better


----------



## ToonArmy

So they should play ECNL starting at u13 then at u16 jump to DA if they want DA?


----------



## dk_b

A player I am quite close to - an ECNL player who committed to a Power 5 school early - went to a number of YNT camps in a row (more than 5, fewer than 10, including an international trip).  Over time, the # of GDA girls went up and the # of non-GDA went down.  I don't begrudge GDA/US Soccer for that because they are going to scout their own product more heavily but from watching several US scouts at prior showcases and playoffs to very few at the recent ECNL nationals (well, I saw 1 at 1 game over 5 days), it is safe to assume that an increasing number of deserving players will be overlooked simply because they don't get the eyeballs.  Is that a reason for a kid to move from ECNL (or non-ECNL/non-GDA) to GDA?  Well, most still won't be invited into camp but if that IS a goal and if all indicators are that a player IS or would be on US Soccer's radar, I think that is a decent reason.  I do think it is unfortunate that CA players (and players in other Winter HS states) have to give up HS (playing with their friends and community DOES have value even if it is not "soccer value") since there is very little of the GDA schedule that would be missed (not sure about BDA, I have not looked at it).


----------



## Ellejustus

ToonArmy said:


> So they should play ECNL starting at u13 then at u16 jump to DA if they want DA?


No.  ECNL should start for 9th graders.  DA should only have two teams in SoCal.  Take the top 40 girls who want to go all in at 12 and 13 years old and let them do their thang.  I will cheer them on all the way.  Let the other girls play in a local league with zero travel except for a tournament in Vegas


----------



## MakeAPlay

dk_b said:


> A player I am quite close to - an ECNL player who committed to a Power 5 school early - went to a number of YNT camps in a row (more than 5, fewer than 10, including an international trip).  Over time, the # of GDA girls went up and the # of non-GDA went down.  I don't begrudge GDA/US Soccer for that because they are going to scout their own product more heavily but from watching several US scouts at prior showcases and playoffs to very few at the recent ECNL nationals (well, I saw 1 at 1 game over 5 days), it is safe to assume that an increasing number of deserving players will be overlooked simply because they don't get the eyeballs.  Is that a reason for a kid to move from ECNL (or non-ECNL/non-GDA) to GDA?  Well, most still won't be invited into camp but if that IS a goal and if all indicators are that a player IS or would be on US Soccer's radar, I think that is a decent reason.  I do think it is unfortunate that CA players (and players in other Winter HS states) have to give up HS (playing with their friends and community DOES have value even if it is not "soccer value") since there is very little of the GDA schedule that would be missed (not sure about BDA, I have not looked at it).


It's a power play and you are just saying it in a nice way.  It works for now because of the huge numerical advantage we have regarding girls soccer.  The European nations are better at training their teams and eventually US Soccer leaving out some of our most talented players is going to cost us as a nation.  It is already playing itself out in the YNT's performances.  We didn't get out of group play at the U17 and U20 level which is absurd.  US Soccer identifies players early and then lets it's lower division (D1 Soccer) train and develop the players.  They clearly don't care about performance in the NWSL or other professional leagues in order to gauge player's development.  Again it's a numbers game in the US so if you throw enough shit against the wall they figure enough will stick to keep us in the top 3 in the world. 

 Such a sad strategy.


----------



## oh canada

espola said:


> Is that an argument in favor of or in opposition to players choosing the DA route?


I still have yet to read a good reason(s) to start id-ing players at 12/13/14 years old and forcing them to choose a highly specialized track (DA) or other.  Some sports require it -- figure skating, gymnastics, swimming.  Soccer does not.  Doctors and scientists agree--15 is the age when soccer talent is identifiable and peak performance is early 20's.  Not to mention the added risk of burnout or injury.  Think about it...girls in DA will now be playing year-round structured/organized soccer 4x/week and 40+ games for 9 years (4 in college) before turning 21.  Has anyone on this board done anything that intensely for 9 years?  If you played college sports "back in the day", you likely played 2-3 sports in high school etc.  I just think the law of diminishing returns kicks in at some point re practice, training, playing, and disagree with the theory of more is always better.  

Postponing the "all-in" track until sophomore year (15yrs) would help somewhat.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Doesn’t every family have the option to make their own decisions?  Parents get so wrapped up with leagues, trophies to the point they jump teams year after year buying what Coaches and Clubs are selling.  We all know the rules of the game and should play accordingly.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Doesn’t every family have the option to make their own decisions?  Parents get so wrapped up with leagues, trophies to the point they jump teams year after year buying what Coaches and Clubs are selling.  We all know the rules of the game and should play accordingly.


Ouch!!!


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> Ouch!!!


?


----------



## espola

Kicker4Life said:


> Doesn’t every family have the option to make their own decisions?  Parents get so wrapped up with leagues, trophies to the point they jump teams year after year buying what Coaches and Clubs are selling.  We all know the rules of the game and should play accordingly.


Yes, everyone has free choice, but in the encircling regime if a player is not in the DA program early the doors may be found to be closed when he or she is older and really ready for it.


----------



## MakeAPlay

espola said:


> Yes, everyone has free choice, but in the encircling regime if a player is not in the DA program early the doors may be found to be closed when he or she is older and really ready for it.


Wow I agree with you on something completely.  Let check to see if any pigs are flying outside today....


----------



## Thing2

I enjoy reading the SoCal forum because there are so many knowledgeable people, but what's going on out west seems to be opposite of what's happening in the rest of the country. In Oklahoma for instance, our third best club plays GDA and our top clubs play ECNL. Outside of Solar and FCD in our Conference, the remaining GDA clubs in TX have lost so many players to their ECNL counterparts that they are shell of their former selves. Dallas Texans, for example, had 3 top 10 teams in the country 2 years ago but lost several entire 1st teams last year when they dropped ECNL.

The same thing is happening across the country. If you take a look at the clubs that moved from GDA to ECNL last year, you will see that most of them did much better in their GDA conferences than their ECNL conferences, which would indicate that ECNL was more difficult for them. This might surprise some people from SoCal.  Here are seven 03 teams that switched to ECNL last year...

03 PDA came in first place in their GDA Conference last year (and won the GDA National Championship) and finished 3rd in their ECNL Conference this year.
03 Michigan Hawks 2nd in GDA, 3rd in ECNL
03 FC Stars 4th in GDA, 7th in ECNL
03 Virginia Development Academy 5th in GDA, 9th in ECNL
03 Eclipse 1st in GDA, 1st in ECNL
03 Concorde Fire 3rd in GDA, 3rd in ECNL
03 Indiana Fire 3rd in GDA, 2nd in ECNL
I'm not disparaging SoCal In any way, it's just odd to read your forum and hear that GDA is considered a higher quality league than ECNL.


----------



## oh canada

The issue here in the USA has never been that girls and boys were not dedicating enough time to practicing soccer.  It was the type of practice that the kickball and all-about-winning coaches were teaching/playing, all the way up to the senior team.  Remember long balls and crosses to Wambach?   Girls here have so many potential avenues for success beyond athletic fields and courts.  And of course it's great to strive for that, but I worry that the next generation will have a lot more former athlete clones who fail to discover their true passions and talents because outside influences forced them to choose a single, narrow path much too early.  What were you doing at 13yrs?  Have it all figured out back then?  My biggest decisions were whether to order chocolate or glazed donuts from Tim Horton's.


----------



## oh canada

Thing2 said:


> I enjoy reading the SoCal forum because there are so many knowledgeable people, but what's going on out west seems to be opposite of what's happening in the rest of the country. In Oklahoma for instance, our third best club plays GDA and our top clubs play ECNL. Outside of Solar and FCD in our Conference, the remaining GDA clubs in TX have lost so many players to their ECNL counterparts that they are shell of their former selves. Dallas Texans, for example, had 3 top 10 teams in the country 2 years ago but lost several entire 1st teams last year when they dropped ECNL.
> 
> The same thing is happening across the country. If you take a look at the clubs that moved from GDA to ECNL last year, you will see that most of them did much better in their GDA conferences than their ECNL conferences, which would indicate that ECNL was more difficult for them. This might surprise some people from SoCal.  Here are seven 03 teams that switched to ECNL last year...
> 
> 03 PDA came in first place in their GDA Conference last year (and won the GDA National Championship) and finished 3rd in their ECNL Conference this year.
> 03 Michigan Hawks 2nd in GDA, 3rd in ECNL
> 03 FC Stars 4th in GDA, 7th in ECNL
> 03 Virginia Development Academy 5th in GDA, 9th in ECNL
> 03 Eclipse 1st in GDA, 1st in ECNL
> 03 Concorde Fire 3rd in GDA, 3rd in ECNL
> 03 Indiana Fire 3rd in GDA, 2nd in ECNL
> I'm not disparaging SoCal In any way, it's just odd to read your forum and hear that GDA is considered a higher quality league than ECNL.


Thanks for this Thing.  Always good to hear what's going on outside our tiny SoCal bubble.  And from what you hear, are the players moving to ECNL to play high school, or...?


----------



## Kicker4Life

espola said:


> Yes, everyone has free choice, but in the encircling regime if a player is not in the DA program early the doors may be found to be closed when he or she is older and really ready for it.


I know of plenty of girls still entering the DA program as ‘03’s and ‘04’s that are making impacts. If the player has the ability, the doors are open.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Thing2 said:


> I enjoy reading the SoCal forum because there are so many knowledgeable people, but what's going on out west seems to be opposite of what's happening in the rest of the country. In Oklahoma for instance, our third best club plays GDA and our top clubs play ECNL. Outside of Solar and FCD in our Conference, the remaining GDA clubs in TX have lost so many players to their ECNL counterparts that they are shell of their former selves. Dallas Texans, for example, had 3 top 10 teams in the country 2 years ago but lost several entire 1st teams last year when they dropped ECNL.
> 
> The same thing is happening across the country. If you take a look at the clubs that moved from GDA to ECNL last year, you will see that most of them did much better in their GDA conferences than their ECNL conferences, which would indicate that ECNL was more difficult for them. This might surprise some people from SoCal.  Here are seven 03 teams that switched to ECNL last year...
> 
> 03 PDA came in first place in their GDA Conference last year (and won the GDA National Championship) and finished 3rd in their ECNL Conference this year.
> 03 Michigan Hawks 2nd in GDA, 3rd in ECNL
> 03 FC Stars 4th in GDA, 7th in ECNL
> 03 Virginia Development Academy 5th in GDA, 9th in ECNL
> 03 Eclipse 1st in GDA, 1st in ECNL
> 03 Concorde Fire 3rd in GDA, 3rd in ECNL
> 03 Indiana Fire 3rd in GDA, 2nd in ECNL
> I'm not disparaging SoCal In any way, it's just odd to read your forum and hear that GDA is considered a higher quality league than ECNL.


Texas has 3 teams in the GDA U16/17 playoffs today Lonestar, Solar and FC Dallas.


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> Ouch!!!





espola said:


> Yes, everyone has free choice, but in the encircling regime if a player is not in the DA program early the doors may be found to be closed when he or she is older and really ready for it.





Thing2 said:


> I enjoy reading the SoCal forum because there are so many knowledgeable people, but what's going on out west seems to be opposite of what's happening in the rest of the country. In Oklahoma for instance, our third best club plays GDA and our top clubs play ECNL. Outside of Solar and FCD in our Conference, the remaining GDA clubs in TX have lost so many players to their ECNL counterparts that they are shell of their former selves. Dallas Texans, for example, had 3 top 10 teams in the country 2 years ago but lost several entire 1st teams last year when they dropped ECNL.
> 
> The same thing is happening across the country. If you take a look at the clubs that moved from GDA to ECNL last year, you will see that most of them did much better in their GDA conferences than their ECNL conferences, which would indicate that ECNL was more difficult for them. This might surprise some people from SoCal.  Here are seven 03 teams that switched to ECNL last year...
> 
> 03 PDA came in first place in their GDA Conference last year (and won the GDA National Championship) and finished 3rd in their ECNL Conference this year.
> 03 Michigan Hawks 2nd in GDA, 3rd in ECNL
> 03 FC Stars 4th in GDA, 7th in ECNL
> 03 Virginia Development Academy 5th in GDA, 9th in ECNL
> 03 Eclipse 1st in GDA, 1st in ECNL
> 03 Concorde Fire 3rd in GDA, 3rd in ECNL
> 03 Indiana Fire 3rd in GDA, 2nd in ECNL
> I'm not disparaging SoCal In any way, it's just odd to read your forum and hear that GDA is considered a higher quality league than ECNL.


The competition in both leagues are top heavy in SoCal.  We went from 8 teams only competing in ECNL before DA t0 13 competing in DA and 10 in ECNL.  Thats 23 teams now.  I would say it's just a little watered down now out here in SoCal.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> The competition in both leagues are top heavy in SoCal.  We went from 8 teams only competing in ECNL before DA t0 13 competing in DA and 10 in ECNL.  Thats 23 teams now.  I would say it's just a little watered down now out here in SoCal.


Could’ve been 10/11 total teams in ECNL and GDA wouldn’t exist


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Could’ve been 10/11 total teams in ECNL and GDA wouldn’t exist


100% agree.  They were (whoever they are) afraid of Beach and Legends because other clubs liked to poach their players to win a championship......lol!!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> 100% agree.  They were (whoever they are) afraid of Beach and Legends because other clubs liked to poach their players to win a championship......lol!!!!


Truth is, I was sold ECNL before their was DA.  The club had a sign out front that read, "ECNL Club."  The next day the sign read, "DA Club".  Same coaches, same everything except we were told no HS Soccer.


----------



## RedCard

Ellejustus said:


> The competition in both leagues are top heavy in SoCal.  We went from 8 teams only competing in ECNL before DA t0 13 competing in DA and 10 in ECNL.  Thats 23 teams now.  I would say it's just a little watered down now out here in SoCal.


ECNL is up to 12 teams for next season with Rebels and Eagles coming aboard next season. Not sure if that puts DA down to 12 with them losing Eagles or if DA has other teams coming aboard for next season.


----------



## timmyh

Thing2 said:


> I enjoy reading the SoCal forum because there are so many knowledgeable people, but what's going on out west seems to be opposite of what's happening in the rest of the country. In Oklahoma for instance, our third best club plays GDA and our top clubs play ECNL. Outside of Solar and FCD in our Conference, the remaining GDA clubs in TX have lost so many players to their ECNL counterparts that they are shell of their former selves. Dallas Texans, for example, had 3 top 10 teams in the country 2 years ago but lost several entire 1st teams last year when they dropped ECNL.


FWIW you are grossly misinformed about soccer in  OK and TX.

Oklahoma has one DA team and two ECNL teams. One of the ECNL teams is one of those joke clubs that ECNL unfortunately added in the aftermath of the split (Oklahoma Celtic), and the other two teams are mediocre, but Energy (DA) is better than TSC (ECNL) in just about every age group.

In Texas, the two best clubs by far are FC Dallas and Solar (who both put  their top teams in DA). Then there is a 2nd tier of good clubs in  Sting (ECNL), D'Feeters (ECNL), and  Lonestar (DA). Then a group of mediocre clubs in Dash (DA), Challenge (ECNL), Texans (DA), Classics Elite (ECNL), Solar (ECNL), and Albion (ECNL). Plus another joke in Sting Austin (ECNL).

The Texas ECNL conference is still pretty good, but the DA league is vastly superior, and it isn't close. And I understand that player movement this summer is widening that gap. And the future looks to only exacerbate the difference. DA starts at U13 in Texas and Oklahoma, and all six of the TX-OK DA clubs have top 50 teams (per YSR) coming in, while ECNL has only one such team (D'Feeters). Sting can't even field a competitive 07 team, so they are apparently playing up an 08 team for ECNL next year.

And elite players didn't leave DA clubs for ECNL. In fact, the opposite has happened. Of the 24 Texas players called into youth national team camps in 2018, 23 of them play in the DA in 2019, albeit almost all of them are Solar and FC Dallas girls (Sting and DFeeters have none anymore as their last handful moved to the DA clubs).


----------



## timmyh

timmyh said:


> FWIW you are grossly misinformed about soccer in  OK and TX.
> 
> Oklahoma has one DA team and two ECNL teams. One of the ECNL teams is one of those joke clubs that ECNL unfortunately added in the aftermath of the split (Oklahoma Celtic), and the other two teams are mediocre, but Energy (DA) is better than TSC (ECNL) in just about every age group.
> 
> In Texas, the two best clubs by far are FC Dallas and Solar (who both put  their top teams in DA). Then there is a 2nd tier of good clubs in  Sting (ECNL), D'Feeters (ECNL), and  Lonestar (DA). Then a group of mediocre clubs in Dash (DA), Challenge (ECNL), Texans (DA), Classics Elite (ECNL), Solar (ECNL), and Albion (ECNL). Plus another joke in Sting Austin (ECNL).
> 
> The Texas ECNL conference is still pretty good, but the DA league is vastly superior, and it isn't close. And I understand that player movement this summer is widening that gap. And the future looks to only exacerbate the difference. DA starts at U13 in Texas and Oklahoma, and all six of the TX-OK DA clubs have top 50 teams (per YSR) coming in, while ECNL has only one such team (D'Feeters). Sting can't even field a competitive 07 team, so they are apparently playing up an 08 team for ECNL next year.
> 
> And elite players didn't leave DA clubs for ECNL. In fact, the opposite has happened. Of the 24 Texas players called into youth national team camps in 2018, 23 of them play in the DA in 2019, albeit almost all of them are Solar and FC Dallas girls (Sting and DFeeters have none anymore as their last handful moved to the DA clubs).


...and those two Texans teams you mention that were outstanding two years ago are now shells of their former selves because just about the entire team (including the coaches) left for Solar DA.


----------



## futboldad1

timmyh said:


> ...and those two Texans teams you mention that were outstanding two years ago are now shells of their former selves because just about the entire team (including the coaches) left for Solar DA.


I’ll be more inclined to believe thing2 who is from Oklahoma than a DA fanboi who recently wrote- “ I think the most interesting and relevant quote in the article that sheds light on the DA vs ECNL tug of war was this:
"ECNL is a league, while the DA is a program designed to produce world-class players."

Dude, really? My kid’s an 06 entering DA at RSC but let’s be honest you ppl who love one league and rip on another are either mental or hold shares.


----------



## Wasabi

Both great leagues and the landscape will continue to evolve. Whether your daughter is playing ECNL or DA, she will have opportunities to be seen by college coaches. 

It comes down to what works for your family. Reasons for both. This “ECNL war vs DA turf war” has many chapters left yet to be written. Honestly it could go either way. 

I for one would like to see one league (either way) with more teams than before DA was created. The truth is, ECNL gave DA oxygen when they excluded deserving clubs and they are now paying for it.


----------



## Surf Zombie

Thing2 said:


> I enjoy reading the SoCal forum because there are so many knowledgeable people, but what's going on out west seems to be opposite of what's happening in the rest of the country. In Oklahoma for instance, our third best club plays GDA and our top clubs play ECNL. Outside of Solar and FCD in our Conference, the remaining GDA clubs in TX have lost so many players to their ECNL counterparts that they are shell of their former selves. Dallas Texans, for example, had 3 top 10 teams in the country 2 years ago but lost several entire 1st teams last year when they dropped ECNL.
> 
> The same thing is happening across the country. If you take a look at the clubs that moved from GDA to ECNL last year, you will see that most of them did much better in their GDA conferences than their ECNL conferences, which would indicate that ECNL was more difficult for them. This might surprise some people from SoCal.  Here are seven 03 teams that switched to ECNL last year...
> 
> 03 PDA came in first place in their GDA Conference last year (and won the GDA National Championship) and finished 3rd in their ECNL Conference this year.
> 03 Michigan Hawks 2nd in GDA, 3rd in ECNL
> 03 FC Stars 4th in GDA, 7th in ECNL
> 03 Virginia Development Academy 5th in GDA, 9th in ECNL
> 03 Eclipse 1st in GDA, 1st in ECNL
> 03 Concorde Fire 3rd in GDA, 3rd in ECNL
> 03 Indiana Fire 3rd in GDA, 2nd in ECNL
> I'm not disparaging SoCal In any way, it's just odd to read your forum and hear that GDA is considered a higher quality league than ECNL.


It’s the exact same way in the north east. PDA, World Class, Scorpions, FC Stars, etc. are all in the ECNL. The only strong GDA program is Penn Fusion and if you believe what you read online they have been trying, unsuccessfully, to get back into ECNL. In our part of the country HS soccer is an important consideration.


----------



## timmyh

futboldad1 said:


> I’ll be more inclined to believe thing2 who is from Oklahoma than a DA fanboi who recently wrote- “ I think the most interesting and relevant quote in the article that sheds light on the DA vs ECNL tug of war was this:
> "ECNL is a league, while the DA is a program designed to produce world-class players."
> 
> Dude, really? My kid’s an 06 entering DA at RSC but let’s be honest you ppl who love one league and rip on another are either mental or hold shares.


The context of that quote of mine was regarding a discussion about what US Soccer believes and trying to explain their actions and decisions, not what I believe.

I most certainly am not a DA fanboi. I wish it would go away, actually. One of my daughters played ECNL this past year (and another is in the DA program, and another in college who came up through ECNL). I am pretty in tune with these issues. I also am not from Socal, Fwiw.

What thing2 tried to pass of as information about Oklahoma soccer was so incorrect and misinformed that it couldn't be a mistake, but was an intentional falsehood.

Such things should be called out, as lying about where things are today in an attempt to influence a open discussion about where it is we need to go tommorow isn't helpful.


----------



## Dos Equis

timmyh said:


> Such things should be called out, as lying about where things are today in an attempt to influence a open discussion about where it is we need to go tommorow isn't helpful.


I appreciate your goal of providing facts and background to clarify statements that might be misleading.  More facts are the foundation for finding common ground.

In that vein, your highlighting the number of players called into YNT from the DA as evidence of superiority of the DA is a bit disingenuous.  Clearly you realize the DA has not only told players they need to play in the DA if they want to be part of the YNT programs (their leaders have called the DA the "only" track to YNT on numerous interviews), they have engaged in this practice of only calling in girls from the DA into YNT camps in many regions (Socal being one of them). 

The DA was formed with some good intentions, but poorly implemented by arrogant people (US Soccer) who failed to anticipate nor appreciate the unintended consequences of some of their decisions and rules.  It will survive because it has the power of the US National team programs behind it, and it fits the needs of many elite players (and the ego of others) in this country. 

US Soccer is more concerned about their own power and control than they are with actually growing soccer in this country.  They may characterize some of their decisions as necessary in order to "keep up with the rest of the world" or "provide the best envrionment for development", but those of us who were not born last night realize the real goals here.  Do not ever, for a moment, think they have your player's best interests in mind.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> Truth is, I was sold ECNL before their was DA.  The club had a sign out front that read, "ECNL Club."  The next day the sign read, "DA Club".  Same coaches, same everything except we were told no HS Soccer.


Wasn’t that club both ECNL and DA at that time?  Did they just take the team your DD was on to DA thus forcing the decision?  

Nevertheless your DD is a stud and will be just fine!


----------



## beachbum

Dos Equis said:


> I appreciate your goal of providing facts and background to clarify statements that might be misleading.  More facts are the foundation for finding common ground.
> 
> In that vein, your highlighting the number of players called into YNT from the DA as evidence of superiority of the DA is a bit disingenuous.  Clearly you realize the DA has not only told players they need to play in the DA if they want to be part of the YNT programs (their leaders have called the DA the "only" track to YNT on numerous interviews), they have engaged in this practice of only calling in girls from the DA into YNT camps in many regions (Socal being one of them).
> 
> The DA was formed with some good intentions, but poorly implemented by arrogant people (US Soccer) who failed to anticipate nor appreciate the unintended consequences of some of their decisions and rules.  It will survive because it has the power of the US National team programs behind it, and it fits the needs of many elite players (and the ego of others) in this country.
> 
> US Soccer is more concerned about their own power and control than they are with actually growing soccer in this country.  They may characterize some of their decisions as necessary in order to "keep up with the rest of the world" or "provide the best envrionment for development", but those of us who were not born last night realize the real goals here.  Do not ever, for a moment, think they have your player's best interests in mind.


1000% agree


----------



## timmyh

Dos Equis said:


> I appreciate your goal of providing facts and background to clarify statements that might be misleading.  More facts are the foundation for finding common ground.
> 
> In that vein, your highlighting the number of players called into YNT from the DA as evidence of superiority of the DA is a bit disingenuous.  Clearly you realize the DA has not only told players they need to play in the DA if they want to be part of the YNT programs (their leaders have called the DA the "only" track to YNT on numerous interviews), they have engaged in this practice of only calling in girls from the DA into YNT camps in many regions (Socal being one of them).
> 
> The DA was formed with some good intentions, but poorly implemented by arrogant people (US Soccer) who failed to anticipate nor appreciate the unintended consequences of some of their decisions and rules.  It will survive because it has the power of the US National team programs behind it, and it fits the needs of many elite players (and the ego of others) in this country.
> 
> US Soccer is more concerned about their own power and control than they are with actually growing soccer in this country.  They may characterize some of their decisions as necessary in order to "keep up with the rest of the world" or "provide the best envrionment for development", but those of us who were not born last night realize the real goals here.  Do not ever, for a moment, think they have your player's best interests in mind.


Well said. 
Mea culpa, and I fully agree with you.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Wasn’t that club both ECNL and DA at that time?  Did they just take the team your DD was on to DA thus forcing the decision?
> 
> Nevertheless your DD is a stud and will be just fine!


TY.  Yes, but before DA it was all in ECNL (one of the reasons we went). Then for one year as my dd was an 8th grader they had a sign that read,  "DA/ECNL" but we all knew it was the first team and the 2nd team.  The next year the sign read, "DA/DPL."  So whats my kid going to do if she wants to play HS Soccer?  She's out of not only being on a great team but recruiting can take a hit because you have to look elsewhere.  Kinda sucks and that's why we have a "tug a war."  My dd wasn't ready for the recruiting back then but it could have hurt her if she was.  Everything will work itself out for college and she is really fired up with her new 04' ECNL team.


----------



## Justafan

Wasabi said:


> The truth is, ECNL gave DA oxygen when they excluded deserving clubs and they are now paying for it.


Agree, and DA gave ECNL oxygen by banning HS soccer.  Both had and perhaps still have a chance for the knockout blow, but which one of these stubborn ego maniacs will be first to blink?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kicker4Life said:


> Could’ve been 10/11 total teams in ECNL and GDA wouldn’t exist



It should only be 3 or 4.  Most kids shouldn't be playing at the highest level if we are being honest.  There are about 24-40 elite players in SoCal in each age group.  That is it....


----------



## MakeAPlay

I'm sure glad that my player played ECNL when it was clearly the top league with most of the top players and teams.


----------



## dk_b

HS remains the critical piece and will be hard change for GDA w/o decentralizing scheduling.  DA's hold on the golden ticket (YNT invite) is pretty significant, too, but that does not impact a large # (though it is in US Soccer's interest to make it seem like it) - those who are impacted by this, however, are really put in a tough spot (esp with such uneven talent and competition in DA in so many places).

I'm a believer in parental and player choice so I'd like to see US Soccer relent on the HS ban.  If a player is so good to be youth national team caliber, taking 3 to 4 months to play HS soccer will not hurt development (if it does, either the player or her coaches are not all that).  And it allows the kid to be a kid - to connect with community, to play with friends, to relax a bit.  Is it right for everyone?  It may not be but that should be a parent/player call, not an organizational one.  It lines up perfectly for the 6 states that play high school soccer in the winter.  The problem are the other 44.


----------



## Dos Equis

MakeAPlay said:


> It should only be 3 or 4.  Most kids shouldn't be playing at the highest level if we are being honest.  There are about 24-40 elite players in SoCal in each age group.  That is it....


Agreed -- US Soccer should have worked with ECNL on some training and development initiatives, then created perhaps 20 Girls DA progam's nationwide.  Arrange for it to be fully funded (except travel, which would still be selectively funded by needs based scholarships).   I have previously outlined how these teams could find competition, provided US Soccer is willing to actually think outside the "league", reciprocate and play nice with others.

Thankfully, we have the excellent competition and coaching in college soccer on the women's side to keep our national team talent pipeline flowing.


----------



## Ellejustus

Dos Equis said:


> Agreed -- US Soccer should have worked with ECNL on some training and development initiatives, then created perhaps 20 Girls DA progam's nationwide.  Arrange for it to be fully funded (except travel, which would still be selectively funded by needs based scholarships).   I have previously outlined how these teams could find competition, provided US Soccer is willing to actually think outside the "league", reciprocate and play nice with others.
> 
> Thankfully, we have the excellent competition and coaching in college soccer on the women's side to keep our national team talent pipeline flowing.





MakeAPlay said:


> I'm sure glad that my player played ECNL when it was clearly the top league with most of the top players and teams.


I was so looking forward to ECNL back in the day.  Then this new drug came out called DA.  I was all over it.  I thought (like a guy) this is awesome!!!!  However, my dd who has a mind of her own said, "no dad, I want to play HS Soccer with my friends and if the DA says no, then I don't play in the league."


----------



## timbuck

dk_b said:


> HS remains the critical piece and will be hard change for GDA w/o decentralizing scheduling.  DA's hold on the golden ticket (YNT invite) is pretty significant, too, but that does not impact a large # (though it is in US Soccer's interest to make it seem like it) - those who are impacted by this, however, are really put in a tough spot (esp with such uneven talent and competition in DA in so many places).
> 
> I'm a believer in parental and player choice so I'd like to see US Soccer relent on the HS ban.  If a player is so good to be youth national team caliber, taking 3 to 4 months to play HS soccer will not hurt development (if it does, either the player or her coaches are not all that).  And it allows the kid to be a kid - to connect with community, to play with friends, to relax a bit.  Is it right for everyone?  It may not be but that should be a parent/player call, not an organizational one.  It lines up perfectly for the 6 states that play high school soccer in the winter.  The problem are the other 44.


Let DA kids play High School.  Have "National Team" camps during HS season.  If you are called into camp, you choose to play HS or not.


----------



## dk_b

timbuck said:


> Let DA kids play High School.  Have "National Team" camps during HS season.  If you are called into camp, you choose to play HS or not.


It’s not that easy when only 6 states play high school in winter and about half of the remainder play in fall and the other group in spring. Hey, I’d like that change but unless US soccer wants to give up scheduling to clubs and teams for league games (as ECNL does), I don’t see it happening. If 50 states played in winter, it would be a different story but how does MN or IL or NY count on decent weather to train and play?


----------



## timbuck

What do DA teams in cold weather states do in the winter?

And not a DA issue but more of a high school issue -   Why isnt high school soccer the same season everywhere ? 
Football is a fall sport    Basketball is a winter sport    Baseball is a spring sport   Pretty sure that’s the way it is across the entire country


----------



## dk_b

There is little programming in the winter from what I can see - a showcase I think. And prob some off the pitch training (I’m speculating because my kids don’t play DA). 

Football - decent fall weather everywhere. Little snow. 

Basketball - indoors in the winter. 

Baseball - decent spring weather everywhere. Little snow though some states have exceptionally short seasons. 

Soccer in the winter everywhere? Do most high schools have access to full-sized indoor fields?


----------



## Justafan

dk_b said:


> It’s not that easy when only 6 states play high school in winter and about half of the remainder play in fall and the other group in spring. Hey, I’d like that change but unless US soccer wants to give up scheduling to clubs and teams for league games (as ECNL does), I don’t see it happening. If 50 states played in winter, it would be a different story but how does MN or IL or NY count on decent weather to train and play?


Point well taken, but I actually believe it’s super easy.  Who cares when HS season is!  When it rolls around you take the 24-30 super talented kids and put them in a camp with YNT coaches and you can play boys teams, travel to play other countries (in SoCal you’d have thanksgiving, Christmas, MLK, & presidents vacation days).  The point is to identify YNT team players right?   So it would give these coaches a chance to see kids from all parts of the country at different times.  They do not have to play against each other in a league.  AND of course, let all the rest play HS.


----------



## dk_b

But it is always high school season in this country. You can’t make it be X season of the year because it is more convenient for YNT camps. For example, how many SoCal high schools can accommodate fall high school with football also using the fields? Or spring with track or (in NorCal) lacrosse?  (When I was a kid, soccer was fall but they used the crap fields not the HS stadium)


----------



## timbuck

We are really talking about 3-4 kids per state, per age group-  at the most.  
And really if we are taking about pulling in 40 kids for national team consideration it probably  breaks down like this:
5 from CA (south and north)
5 from TX
5 from FL
4 from IL
4 from NY
17 from the “rest of the country”. (Michigan, Carolinas, Georgia, Pac NW, AZ/NM/NV/UT will each have at least 1)


----------



## dk_b

timbuck said:


> We are really talking about 3-4 kids per state, per age group-  at the most.
> And really if we are taking about pulling in 40 kids for national team consideration it probably  breaks down like this:
> 5 from CA (south and north)
> 5 from TX
> 5 from FL
> 4 from IL
> 4 from NY
> 17 from the “rest of the country”. (Michigan, Carolinas, Georgia, Pac NW, AZ/NM/NV/UT will each have at least 1)


And because the "goal" for US Soccer is to find those 40, the only concern about "the rest" is whether they help to adequately allow the 40 or so to be identified.  The high-end elite athletes make plenty of sacrifices that it is a bummer (to me, anyway) that literally thousands have to shut off playing for their schools in service to the 40 (don't jump on me if your player eschews HS soccer - I respect that choice and support it IF it is being made by the player and parent)


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> I was so looking forward to ECNL back in the day.  Then this new drug came out called DA.  I was all over it.  I thought (like a guy) this is awesome!!!!  However, my dd who has a mind of her own said, "no dad, I want to play HS Soccer with my friends and if the DA says no, then I don't play in the league."


They tend to do that.  Just wait for when she is in college and you are funding her life and you have to ask HER to give you all of her grades and you have to walk HER through all the "adulting" that they have to do since as 18 year olds they are legally adults....

I will tell you that for my player, playing for her high school team for 4 years has been just as important for her success in college as playing ECNL/ODP/YNT was for her.  Your player will be playing with and against players that are up to 5 years older than them.  That matters.....


----------



## Dubs

Justafan said:


> Agree, and DA gave ECNL oxygen by banning HS soccer.  Both had and perhaps still have a chance for the knockout blow, but which one of these stubborn ego maniacs will be first to blink?


Make no mistake...The biggest egomaniac in this equation is US Soccer.  ECNL tried to work with them from the beginning once they announced DA.  It would only make sense to come together collaboratively, but US Soccer gave ECNL the finger and now here we are.  The pissing match continues with a bunch of kids getting overlooked.  It's a joke.


----------



## myself

Dubs said:


> ...but US Soccer gave ECNL the finger and now here we are.


Explain please.


----------



## Ellejustus

dk_b said:


> It’s not that easy when only 6 states play high school in winter and about half of the remainder play in fall and the other group in spring. Hey, I’d like that change but unless US soccer wants to give up scheduling to clubs and teams for league games (as ECNL does), I don’t see it happening. If 50 states played in winter, it would be a different story but how does MN or IL or NY count on decent weather to train and play?


Let's move HS Soccer to middle of August.  2  months plus playoffs. ECNL/DA can start November 1st.  Be open until Dec 15.  Pick up Jan 5th and go until May.  Have one showcase during Spring Break on the West Coast and one on East Coast.  Run your YNT Camps during high school season. If you're a stud and you get called in then you have a choice to make.  Being told crap like this, "the scouts see some real positives things with ur dd and she "could" get the call so dont play HS" is the problem.  Its laughable today but two years ago it wasnt.  #letthemdoboth........


----------



## vegasguy

Wouldn't it be cool to have a relegation system for the two leagues on both the boys and girls side.  Now player movement would be a huge concern but the matches would always be good and fighting for something.  National Events could be like Champions League and Europa League.. You could have regional tournaments blending the the two flights like the FA Cup.. oh wait we need to all be on the same page... I forgot about that.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> Let's move HS Soccer to middle of August.  2  months plus playoffs. ECNL/DA can start November 1st.  Be open until Dec 15.  Pick up Jan 5th and go until May.  Have one showcase during Spring Break on the West Coast and one on East Coast.  Run your YNT Camps during high school season. If you're a stud and you get called in then you have a choice to make.  Being told crap like this, "the scouts see some real positives things with ur dd and she "could" get the call so dont play HS" is the problem.  Its laughable today but two years ago it wasnt.  #letthemdoboth........


Summer break is travel season for families.  Putting it during August assures that the top college coaches can't come see the kids play (outside of Surf Cup they are dark during August due to double days and training camp).  With a country as vast as ours there is no single solution other than to let them play and take a break for the camp if they are called in.  It was working before why change that component.


----------



## dk_b

I live in an urban area, like a lot of folks around the country.  Having boys/girls soccer/football simultaneously would be an impossibility given our field constraints.  As it is, my kid’s HS has 6 teams - frosh/JV/Var - that have to be accommodated on a single field during school hours.  Adding in JV/Var football (or maybe even frosh/JV/Var) is a non-starter.  I suspect we are not terribly unique.  Suggestions that are broadly applicable have to consider all variables - many that may not appear in SoCal or NorCal (weather, for example).  I like the theory behind your suggestion but I think there are many practical constraints.


----------



## Ellejustus

vegasguy said:


> Wouldn't it be cool to have a relegation system for the two leagues on both the boys and girls side.  Now player movement would be a huge concern but the matches would always be good and fighting for something.  National Events could be like Champions League and Europa League.. You could have regional tournaments blending the the two flights like the FA Cup.. oh wait we need to all be on the same page... I forgot about that.


Kinda of like the Greasers vs the Socs...lol


----------



## vegasguy

I wish Vegas played soccer in the winter.   The issue is lights for us.  Not all schools have them on their "soccer fields" (sometimes a grassish patch between the football and baseball stadiums).


----------



## MakeAPlay

vegasguy said:


> I wish Vegas played soccer in the winter.   The issue is lights for us.  Not all schools have them on their "soccer fields" (sometimes a grassish patch between the football and baseball stadiums).


What season do they play soccer in high school in Vegas?


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> Kinda of like the Greasers vs the Socs...lol


You know the saying, "girls want to have fun too." We wont see the pain caused until the 04 and 03s enter college.  I know many girls who felt pressure to verbally committ early and play DA and skip HS soccer.  Mark my words.  Your dds will let you know how grateful they are for stirring them in the right direction  or bitter because you forced them to drink the koolaid with you.


----------



## vegasguy

MakeAPlay said:


> What season do they play soccer in high school in Vegas?


Fall.  Training has already started at some schools.. it is only 95degrees at 7am.   Tryouts are in three weeks I think.   Varsity usually plays there games at 3p Aug/Sept/Oct (State is in Nov).  JV at 5p or so unless the school has a lighted field.


----------



## MakeAPlay

vegasguy said:


> Fall.  Training has already started at some schools.. it is only 95degrees at 7am.   Tryouts are in three weeks I think.   Varsity usually plays there games at 3p Aug/Sept/Oct (State is in Nov).  JV at 5p or so unless the school has a lighted field.



That is BRUTAL!!


----------



## vegasguy

MakeAPlay said:


> That is BRUTAL!!


Vegas players can acclimate to it.  We train on turf in 105 degrees sometimes.. people complain about Silverlakes Showcase being too hot... bring it on LOL.   70degree year round with a beach nearby.. who needs it.


----------



## timbuck

dk_b said:


> I live in an urban area, like a lot of folks around the country.  Having boys/girls soccer/football simultaneously would be an impossibility given our field constraints.  As it is, my kid’s HS has 6 teams - frosh/JV/Var - that have to be accommodated on a single field during school hours.  Adding in JV/Var football (or maybe even frosh/JV/Var) is a non-starter.  I suspect we are not terribly unique.  Suggestions that are broadly applicable have to consider all variables - many that may not appear in SoCal or NorCal (weather, for example).  I like the theory behind your suggestion but I think there are many practical constraints.


Growing up in Michigan -  The boys HS soccer team played in the Fall.  Same as football season.  Girls soccer was a spring sport.  Not sure if that has changed or not.
Our football team kicker was also on the soccer team.  Occasionally, he'd have to run from one game to the other.
What do other states do with regard to club soccer and high school soccer.  In CA, you can't play club in your same sport during the HS season for that sport.  For the u15 and older age groups, our clubs take a break from Thanksgiving until February for high school season.  
For states that have High School Soccer in the Fall -  when is the club season for older players?


----------



## dk_b

timbuck said:


> Growing up in Michigan -  The boys HS soccer team played in the Fall.  Same as football season.  Girls soccer was a spring sport.  Not sure if that has changed or not.
> Our football team kicker was also on the soccer team.  Occasionally, he'd have to run from one game to the other.
> What do other states do with regard to club soccer and high school soccer.  In CA, you can't play club in your same sport during the HS season for that sport.  For the u15 and older age groups, our clubs take a break from Thanksgiving until February for high school season.
> For states that have High School Soccer in the Fall -  when is the club season for older players?


You can see from the ECNL schedules that clubs can fold entire seasons into fall or spring, depending on when HS soccer is played (easy to guess what a particular state does for HS by looking at club schedules).  We are lucky to have such mild weather from late fall to spring.


----------



## vegasguy

In NV, they tried to shut off club during High School but it didn't always workout because of Surf or a Labor Day Tournament in CA.  So NIAA allows club soccer during the HS season.  ECNL has league games on some weekends and travel during high school to comply with the CA HS season.  It can be difficult as the styles are totally different and in many cases the high school coaching is way different and most players are spread among a few different high schools.  Also, playing a 3p game and then going to training can be tough.  98% of the ECNL kids balance school and soccer well and keep their grades up where they should be.   I know one LVSA boys squad trains 5days a week thru high school.   So if anyone is prepared to balance a college season with school and play it may be the NV kids.


----------



## dk_b

vegasguy said:


> In NV, they tried to shut off club during High School but it didn't always workout because of Surf or a Labor Day Tournament in CA.  So NIAA allows club soccer during the HS season.  ECNL has league games on some weekends and travel during high school to comply with the CA HS season.  It can be difficult as the styles are totally different and in many cases the high school coaching is way different and most players are spread among a few different high schools.  Also, playing a 3p game and then going to training can be tough.  98% of the ECNL kids balance school and soccer well and keep their grades up where they should be.   I know one LVSA boys squad trains 5days a week thru high school.   So if anyone is prepared to balance a college season with school and play it may be the NV kids.


only in the last year or two has NorCal unified the HS season into Winter as there were a small but not insignificant number of schools that played in Winter or Spring (small privates still do spring but CIF permits those players to play club simultaneously).  Of the 6 ECNL clubs, one (Santa Rosa United) was traditionally a fall (I think) HS club - the other clubs played a balanced schedule but SRU would play a couple of ECNL games at most and then back-load all into spring (and, if memory serves, play a watered down winter league schedule so they did not have a long idle period (the "watered down" reference is no reflection on that club but b/c most in NorCal were playing HS at that time)).


----------



## vegasguy

ECNL last year was back end loaded for Heat too.  There was a stretch where many teams were not home for 8 or the last 10 weekends.


----------



## dk_b

vegasguy said:


> ECNL last year was back end loaded for Heat too.  There was a stretch where many teams were not home for 8 or the last 10 weekends.


That’s incredibly disruptive. Really fortunate for the areas where there is a higher concentration of teams.


----------



## futboldad1

vegasguy said:


> In NV, they tried to shut off club during High School but it didn't always workout because of Surf or a Labor Day Tournament in CA.  So NIAA allows club soccer during the HS season.  ECNL has league games on some weekends and travel during high school to comply with the CA HS season.  It can be difficult as the styles are totally different and in many cases the high school coaching is way different and most players are spread among a few different high schools.  Also, playing a 3p game and then going to training can be tough.  98% of the ECNL kids balance school and soccer well and keep their grades up where they should be.   I know one LVSA boys squad trains 5days a week thru high school.   So if anyone is prepared to balance a college season with school and play it may be the NV kids.


Interesting out of state insight. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Dubs

myself said:


> Explain please.


On multiple occasions leading up to the launch of the DA, ECNL tried to broker conversations with DA folks in an effort to collaborate on one top league (this is not just me talking...there is record of this).  DA said thanks but no thanks...we are doing our own thing and by the way, we are going to  take you down cause our product is going to be so amazing.  All your players are going to come to our league because it is best.  Because WE know best.  Is this what happened?  NO!!  We are now split in two "top" leagues and have both experienced a massive watering down of the talent pool as we all know.   However, I would say based on the things that have happened after the second DA season, the scales have definitely turned towards ECNL because of the HS soccer issue and the fact that ECNL is 100% on being a platform for girls playing soccer in college.  If DA got their head out of their ass, they would allow HS soccer and just  like that, most top players would move over.  It's really as simple as that.  Did I miss any details folks... please correct me if I am.


----------



## MarkM

Dubs said:


> On multiple occasions leading up to the launch of the DA, ECNL tried to broker conversations with DA folks in an effort to collaborate on one top league (this is not just me talking...there is record of this).  DA said thanks but no thanks...we are doing our own thing and by the way, we are going to  take you down cause our product is going to be so amazing.  All your players are going to come to our league because it is best.  Because WE know best.  Is this what happened?  NO!!  We are now split in two "top" leagues and have both experienced a massive watering down of the talent pool as we all know.   However, I would say based on the things that have happened after the second DA season, the scales have definitely turned towards ECNL because of the HS soccer issue and the fact that ECNL is 100% on being a platform for girls playing soccer in college.  If DA got their head out of their ass, they would allow HS soccer and just  like that, most top players would move over.  It's really as simple as that.  Did I miss any details folks... please correct me if I am.


Why do you think the scales have turned toward ECNL?  I'm not disputing it, but I'm curious why that is so definitive.  It seems like a mixed bag and I don't see a lot of clubs dropping DA if they don't do it by this year.   I thought Blues and Real Colorado would have dropped, but that didn't happen.  Especially if you live in SoCal, I don't really see it.  The clubs at the bottom of both leagues aren't great.  And the only good ECNL club pre-DA was Slammers.  Eagles is back, but they were a disaster before DA when their most prominent coach was arrested.  At least the top clubs in DA SoCal conference are legit.


----------



## Justafan

Ellejustus said:


> You know the saying, "girls want to have fun too." We wont see the pain caused until the 04 and 03s enter college.  I know many girls who felt pressure to verbally committ early and play DA and skip HS soccer.  Mark my words.  Your dds will let you know how grateful they are for stirring them in the right direction  or bitter because you forced them to drink the koolaid with you.


For 99.9% of the girls the soccer journey will be over after 4 years of college.  That is right around the corner.  It’s a shame and really sad that all these girls will miss out on a super fun experience.  And it’s not about the quality of soccer, it’s about the social experience.  All our girls have been busting their butts for a long time, so let them play and enjoy soccer on their own terms for three months.   If you are going to max out with college ball, then let them have these theee months a year.  And for the 1% of the 1%’s it’s ok that they miss HS ball because they probably have a bigger payout down the road.


----------



## Real Deal

Justafan said:


> For 99.9% of the girls the soccer journey will be over after 4 years of college.  That is right around the corner.  It’s a shame and really sad that all these girls will miss out on a super fun experience.  And it’s not about the quality of soccer, it’s about the social experience.  All our girls have been busting their butts for a long time, so let them play and enjoy soccer on their own terms for three months.   If you are going to max out with college ball, then let them have these theee months a year.  And for the 1% of the 1%’s it’s ok that they miss HS ball because they probably have a bigger payout down the road.


So what I wonder is-- if DA allowed high school tomorrow-- would y'all be happy?


----------



## Dos Equis

MarkM said:


> And the only good ECNL club pre-DA was Slammers.


I disagree.  Surf and Blues were pretty legit clubs, and RSC, Arsenal and even Strikers had some legit teams.  The only non-ECNL "legit" clubs pre-ECNL in Socal were Legends and Beach, and I would not put them in the same class as the top ECNL clubs of that time. There were other good teams ... wouldn't it be interesting to have a league were they all earned the ability to compete against each other based on results and merit ... but i digress.

Everything has been re-shuffled, and with player and coach movement, almost none of the clubs are the same as they they were even 4 years ago. But the third party judgment of college recruiting is still a decent measuring stick of the quality of coach and team.


----------



## Josep

Real Deal said:


> So what I wonder is-- if DA allowed high school tomorrow-- would y'all be happy?


Nah. HS is a shit show. My kid has seen it and doesn’t want near it.


----------



## dk_b

Josep said:


> Nah. HS is a shit show. My kid has seen it and doesn’t want near it.


But that’s your choice - or should be.


----------



## Justafan

Real Deal said:


> So what I wonder is-- if DA allowed high school tomorrow-- would y'all be happy?


Absolutely, the girls deserve it.  And that would also be the end of ECNL.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Dos Equis said:


> I disagree.  Surf and Blues were pretty legit clubs, and RSC, Arsenal and even Strikers had some legit teams.  The only non-ECNL "legit" clubs pre-ECNL in Socal were Legends and Beach, and I would not put them in the same class as the top ECNL clubs of that time. There were other good teams ... wouldn't it be interesting to have a league were they all earned the ability to compete against each other based on results and merit ... but i digress.
> 
> Everything has been re-shuffled, and with player and coach movement, almost none of the clubs are the same as they they were even 4 years ago. But the third party judgment of college recruiting is still a decent measuring stick of the quality of coach and team.


Along the lines of college recruiting I did some checking. Using TopDrawer as a source, the 2022 class has 102 players committed so far. I expected that there would be more ECNL players committed since there are more ECNL teams, but that isn’t the case. The results:
55 play for DA 
37 play for ECNL
10 play for neither/other

Of those, the following % are committed to NCAA top 15 ranked programs:
DA 45%
ECNL 32%
Neither/other 10%

This is early data and a small sample as only 102 2022’s committed prior to the May 1 rule change, but it does confirm what I see through my lens. The talent is split between DA and ECNL but tilted towards DA for U15/U16. It will be interesting to check again in a couple years and see if the ratio holds.


----------



## oh canada

my angle is a bit broader -- ECNL superior because it allows for more freedom, leaving more power to the player and families.  Organized practice 3x/week instead of 4 (those wanting more are free to do so on their own).  Opportunity to play HS soccer if you like.  If you don't want to play HS, then your player can fully participate in another winter sport (SoCal) without having to worry about missing club soccer practice; OR have a few months away from soccer to focus on academics, music/arts, or other activities.  No ban on futsal throughout the year (I've heard some DA clubs are frowning/banning futsal).

This flexibility/freedom should translate into healthier/happier players both now and in the future.--college, pro, etc.

And last, ECNL defers the identifying of "talent" to the appropriate ages of 15+ by college coaches over the course of a couple years, not a US Scout (usually one local guy watching a few videos) prematurely at 13yrs.   

The only reason I can see for playing DA is if ECNL is not offered in the area (not the case in SoCal), or the chance of playing for a youth national team (however remote) is sooo important to a player (more likely the parent) that they are willing to sacrifice all the tangible benefits mentioned above.


----------



## Dos Equis

Soccerfan2 said:


> Along the lines of college recruiting I did some checking. Using TopDrawer as a source, the 2022 class has 102 players committed so far. I expected that there would be more ECNL players committed since there are more ECNL teams, but that isn’t the case. The results:
> 55 play for DA
> 37 play for ECNL
> 10 play for neither/other
> 
> Of those, the following % are committed to NCAA top 15 ranked programs:
> DA 45%
> ECNL 32%
> Neither/other 10%
> 
> This is early data and a small sample as only 102 2022’s committed prior to the May 1 rule change, but it does confirm what I see through my lens. The talent is split between DA and ECNL but tilted towards DA for U15/U16. It will be interesting to check again in a couple years and see if the ratio holds.


Keep checking, I agree it will indeed be interesting, but nothing more.  

I did not mention league for a reason -- I said getting a measure of the team and the coach (and a player's effort as well).   I have yet to find a top college coach that emphasized league in our conversations.


----------



## vegasguy

Josep said:


> Nah. HS is a shit show. My kid has seen it and doesn’t want near it.


Is there a reason you want ECNL to go away?


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccerfan2 said:


> Along the lines of college recruiting I did some checking. Using TopDrawer as a source, the 2022 class has 102 players committed so far. I expected that there would be more ECNL players committed since there are more ECNL teams, but that isn’t the case. The results:
> 55 play for DA
> 37 play for ECNL
> 10 play for neither/other
> 
> Of those, the following % are committed to NCAA top 15 ranked programs:
> DA 45%
> ECNL 32%
> Neither/other 10%
> 
> This is early data and a small sample as only 102 2022’s committed prior to the May 1 rule change, but it does confirm what I see through my lens. The talent is split between DA and ECNL but tilted towards DA for U15/U16. It will be interesting to check again in a couple years and see if the ratio holds.


Of the 102, 80 of th


Soccerfan2 said:


> Along the lines of college recruiting I did some checking. Using TopDrawer as a source, the 2022 class has 102 players committed so far. I expected that there would be more ECNL players committed since there are more ECNL teams, but that isn’t the case. The results:
> 55 play for DA
> 37 play for ECNL
> 10 play for neither/other
> 
> Of those, the following % are committed to NCAA top 15 ranked programs:
> DA 45%
> ECNL 32%
> Neither/other 10%
> 
> This is early data and a small sample as only 102 2022’s committed prior to the May 1 rule change, but it does confirm what I see through my lens. The talent is split between DA and ECNL but tilted towards DA for U15/U16. It will be interesting to check again in a couple years and see if the ratio holds.


The other stat is only 20 of those girls will actually attend the school they committed to in 8th or 9th grade.


----------



## Josep

vegasguy said:


> Is there a reason you want ECNL to go away?


Who said I want ECNL to go away?  There’s so much whining about HS and DA forbidding it.  Most girls who play DA don’t care.  It’s the parents who have some sort of myopic nostalgia for it.  

For kids who want HS and a high level of soccer, there’s ECNL.  It’s actually a pretty good set of choices between the DA and ECNL.  If you’re in SoCal you have great options. 

ECNL is a fine program for girls. We have a lot of friends playing ECNL.  My kid played ECNL.  ECNL kids get into college.  If my kid was hell bent on playing HS, they’d stick with ECNL.  I don’t want to see it go away.  

But I don’t see the need to change DA.  It is what it is for people who want that program.  Kids accept no HS and 4 practices a week.  

I’d guess that a majority of the kids in DA don’t care about HS soccer and the the ECNL kids don’t really care about not playing DA.  

You’ve essentially got the AL vs NL.  One has DH (HS) and one doesn’t.   Otherwise it’s 90 min games on the same size fields with coaches attending both of their bigger events.


----------



## dk_b

Josep said:


> Who said I want ECNL to go away?  There’s so much whining about HS and DA forbidding it.  Most girls who play DA don’t care.  It’s the parents who have some sort of myopic nostalgia for it.
> 
> For kids who want HS and a high level of soccer, there’s ECNL.  It’s actually a pretty good set of choices between the DA and ECNL.  If you’re in SoCal you have great options.
> 
> ECNL is a fine program for girls. We have a lot of friends playing ECNL.  My kid played ECNL.  ECNL kids get into college.  If my kid was hell bent on playing HS, they’d stick with ECNL.  I don’t want to see it go away.
> 
> But I don’t see the need to change DA.  It is what it is for people who want that program.  Kids accept no HS and 4 practices a week.
> 
> I’d guess that a majority of the kids in DA don’t care about HS soccer and the the ECNL kids don’t really care about not playing DA.
> 
> You’ve essentially got the AL vs NL.  One has DH (HS) and one doesn’t.   Otherwise it’s 90 min games on the same size fields with coaches attending both of their bigger events.


This is only anecdotal but, in NorCal, I'd guess that if GDA permitted HS play, the GDA clubs would get much stronger OR clubs like Mustang and MVLA would become GDA clubs (at least one of those was on the initial GDA list only to decline in large part b/c HS is so big where it is located).  One of the strongest 2017-2018 GDA teams (01 Quakes) lost a number of key players (one becoming National HS POY) at the winter break this past season b/c they wanted to play HS in their senior year.  There is nothing to suggest that a majority of the younger players would not do the same if they had that option.

(and as a NL guy, I'd say that the one with the DH is GDA since that is the one that restricts like the AL restricts pitchers from hitting (yes, I know.  The rules allow pitchers to hit and the DH is "optional"))


----------



## Soccer43

Josep said:


> Who said I want ECNL to go away?  There’s so much whining about HS and DA forbidding it.  Most girls who play DA don’t care.  It’s the parents who have some sort of myopic nostalgia for it.
> 
> For kids who want HS and a high level of soccer, there’s ECNL.  It’s actually a pretty good set of choices between the DA and ECNL.  If you’re in SoCal you have great options.
> 
> ECNL is a fine program for girls. We have a lot of friends playing ECNL.  My kid played ECNL.  ECNL kids get into college.  If my kid was hell bent on playing HS, they’d stick with ECNL.  I don’t want to see it go away.
> 
> But I don’t see the need to change DA.  It is what it is for people who want that program.  Kids accept no HS and 4 practices a week.
> 
> I’d guess that a majority of the kids in DA don’t care about HS soccer and the the ECNL kids don’t really care about not playing DA.
> 
> You’ve essentially got the AL vs NL.  One has DH (HS) and one doesn’t.   Otherwise it’s 90 min games on the same size fields with coaches attending both of their bigger events.


I agree with much of what you are saying.  Except, much of what is reported on this forum is personal opinion and anecdotal experiences.  The only way to know for sure that kids in DA don't care about high school would be to do an actual survey.  The same for ECNL kids not caring about playing DA.  I think the decisions are more complex than this and I do see players feeling pressured and manipulated.  I wouldn't say that across the board everyone is happy with the current status and would venture to say that most would prefer one league where the best could play against the best rather than the tired debate of ECNL vs DA.


----------



## vegasguy

Fair.. it just seemed blunt.
My thought is that high school gives club players the opportunity to play with players who they often play against and to play with a sense of community pride that club in any form really doesn't provide.  My player described it as it is my World Cup playing to get to a State Championship since there are older kids and different clubs fighting for the same thing.  There is club pride here but not like high school there is a difference.  You say it is parent nostalgia and I think the players who play may have a differing opinion.  If US Soccer wants to be non-inclusive that is fine it is on them and those that want that because their child may be in the 1% then that is good for them and those that don't will seek other options.   It is a silly battle in the long run and won't make US Soccer better.


----------



## Josep

Soccer43 said:


> I agree with much of what you are saying.  Except, much of what is reported on this forum is personal opinion and anecdotal experiences.  The only way to know for sure that kids in DA don't care about high school would be to do an actual survey.  The same for ECNL kids not caring about playing DA.  I think the decisions are more complex than this and I do see players feeling pressured and manipulated.  I wouldn't say that across the board everyone is happy with the current status and would venture to say that most would prefer one league where the best could play against the best rather than the tired debate of ECNL vs DA.



My kid plays DA and we have friends on DA at every club in OC.  They have reported to me, because we talk about our kids’ happiness - I know shocking in the dog eat dog world we all live in - and the sentiment is that the girls are comfortable workouts DA.  I have known kids who played HS for a year and left for DA.  They made a choice.  I do not know a kid who left DA To play Hs.  I’m sure it happened.

Just my experience and conversations.


----------



## vegasguy

It goes both ways.  DA kids leave DA to play high school.  Boy's Gatorade Player of the Year left Atlanta United to play HS.  ECNL players leave because they want to try the pathway to YNT.  The thing is both are good leagues (and emphasis on leagues) with quality players and coaches and also poor players and coaches are in those leagues too.   US SOCCER is where my issue lies in their opinion from high saying this is the only place national team players are made.  That is tunnel visioned at best.


----------



## Ellejustus

Josep said:


> My kid plays DA and we have friends on DA at every club in OC.  They have reported to me, because we talk about our kids’ happiness - I know shocking in the dog eat dog world we all live in - and the sentiment is that the girls are comfortable workouts DA.  I have known kids who played HS for a year and left for DA.  They made a choice.  I do not know a kid who left DA To play Hs.  I’m sure it happened.
> 
> Just my experience and conversations.


The top league in OC for HS Soccer is the Trinity League.  Waivers for DA players so it's a non issue. I will say for the 04' age group in OC very few kids walked away from DA.  High school soccer is not super popular at most schools in OC.  I know why but I'll leave that to myself....


----------



## Mullet

When the best selling point of a league is that for 4 months out of 10 you don't have to play in the league what is the point? That out of 4 months your kid gets to train in HS or play something other than HS I fail to understand the point of paying 3K a year plus travel to have a HS coach train my kid for 3-4 months.


----------



## dk_b

Ellejustus said:


> The top league in OC for HS Soccer is the Trinity League.  Waivers for DA players so it's a non issue. I will say for the 04' age group in OC very few kids walked away from DA.  High school soccer is not super popular at most schools in OC.  I know why but I'll leave that to myself....


Can you explain the waiver?  Genuinely curious.


----------



## timbuck

Ellejustus said:


> The top league in OC for HS Soccer is the Trinity League.  Waivers for DA players so it's a non issue. I will say for the 04' age group in OC very few kids walked away from DA.  *High school soccer is not super popular at most schools in OC*.  I know why but I'll leave that to myself....


Not sure what part of OC you are from.  But the south oc schools have about 50 freshman at their summer camp/leagues. (At least on the girls side)


----------



## espola

Ellejustus said:


> The top league in OC for HS Soccer is the Trinity League.  Waivers for DA players so it's a non issue. I will say for the 04' age group in OC very few kids walked away from DA.  High school soccer is not super popular at most schools in OC.  I know why but I'll leave that to myself....


Don't be like that.  Tell us why.


----------



## espola

dk_b said:


> Can you explain the waiver?  Genuinely curious.


Students at private schools can still play HS, since not playing may have an effect on their admission and/or tuition rate.


----------



## whatithink

espola said:


> Students at private schools can still play HS, since not playing may have an effect on their admission and/or tuition rate.


I thought the stipulation was that if a kid is getting a scholarship to a private school based on soccer, then they can play. If they are just attending or getting a financial break but not for soccer, then the restriction applies. The school has to provide docs to substantiate the waiver.

Could be wrong though


----------



## espola

whatithink said:


> I thought the stipulation was that if a kid is getting a scholarship to a private school based on soccer, then they can play. If they are just attending or getting a financial break but not for soccer, then the restriction applies. The school has to provide docs to substantiate the waiver.
> 
> Could be wrong though


I have also been told that the private schools in So Cal don't give athletic scholarships, but I know from personal experience (and from inadvertent admissions by student-athletes or their parents that didn't know they were supposed to be quiet) that accommodations can be made in some cases.


----------



## Dummy

espola said:


> Students at private schools can still play HS, since not playing may have an effect on their admission and/or tuition rate.


Seem unfair to treat players that attend private schools differently from how players that attend public schools are treated.  Maybe there is something I am missing?


----------



## oh canada

Mullet said:


> When the best selling point of a league is that for 4 months out of 10 you don't have to play in the league what is the point? That out of 4 months your kid gets to train in HS or play something other than HS I fail to understand the point of paying 3K a year plus travel to have a HS coach train my kid for 3-4 months.


choice, control, diversity, long-term focus, etc. - i am willing to pay the same, or more, for those


----------



## espola

Dummy said:


> Seem unfair to treat players that attend private schools differently from how players that attend public schools are treated.  Maybe there is something I am missing?


Only the best players go to private schools?  The players at private schools are more likely to have lawyers for parents?  The possible explanations are endless.


----------



## dk_b

Dummy said:


> Seem unfair to treat players that attend private schools differently from how players that attend public schools are treated.  Maybe there is something I am missing?


I was wondering about the use of the term "waiver" - I have read in the DA rules that players that attend private schools that require soccer (or some other sport) to satisfy extracurricular requirements will be allowed to play HS.  I did not recall it being expressed as a "waiver" so was wondering if there was some other mechanism to which the commenter was referring.


----------



## Dubs

MarkM said:


> Why do you think the scales have turned toward ECNL?  I'm not disputing it, but I'm curious why that is so definitive.  It seems like a mixed bag and I don't see a lot of clubs dropping DA if they don't do it by this year.   I thought Blues and Real Colorado would have dropped, but that didn't happen.  Especially if you live in SoCal, I don't really see it.  The clubs at the bottom of both leagues aren't great.  And the only good ECNL club pre-DA was Slammers.  Eagles is back, but they were a disaster before DA when their most prominent coach was arrested.  At least the top clubs in DA SoCal conference are legit.


Outside of SoCal and Texas, most of the top clubs have moved to ECNL.  However, it's fairly split in SoCal as well.  I would say that's a move towards ECNL.  Honestly, like most folks on this forum, I would love it if there was one league with the best players playing each other.  My DD wants to be a pro, be on the NT and take soccer that farthest she can.  Unfortunately, she's gonna have to wait til college because she plays on an ECNL team and will be overlooked until then.


----------



## espola

Mullet said:


> When the best selling point of a league is that for 4 months out of 10 you don't have to play in the league what is the point? That out of 4 months your kid gets to train in HS or play something other than HS I fail to understand the point of paying 3K a year plus travel to have a HS coach train my kid for 3-4 months.


Some of those high school coaches are also highly-regarded club coaches.


----------



## Mullet

oh canada said:


> choice, control, diversity, long-term focus, etc. - i am willing to pay the same, or more, for those


But you're paying more for less AND paying for anything extra on top of it. 

What is so long term focus about 1/3 of the season spent away from the club coach and the higher level club players and training for HS?


----------



## Mullet

espola said:


> Some of those high school coaches are also highly-regarded club coaches.


But the season is so compressed and the focus is so heavily geared towards results that development is simply thrown out the window. You might as well just join track for all the soccer development will come out of playing HS.


----------



## espola

Mullet said:


> But the season is so compressed and the focus is so heavily geared towards results that development is simply thrown out the window. You might as well just join track for all the soccer development will come out of playing HS.


You need a better high school.


----------



## Mullet

espola said:


> You need a better high school.


A better school will make the HS season longer? 

A better school will make all the other crappy HS teams better?

A better school will get those 3-4 months of lost club training back that I paid for?

Can ECNL also market the better school as part of their "All In" campaign?


----------



## Ellejustus

Dummy said:


> Seem unfair to treat players that attend private schools differently from how players that attend public schools are treated.  Maybe there is something I am missing?


That's why I'm whinny.......wrong on so many fronts.....


----------



## espola

Mullet said:


> A better school will make the HS season longer?
> 
> A better school will make all the other crappy HS teams better?
> 
> A better school will get those 3-4 months of lost club training back that I paid for?
> 
> Can ECNL also market the better school as part of their "All In" campaign?


A better high school might have better coaches and a better multi-year program to develop uncertain Freshmen players into killer Seniors.


----------



## Mullet

espola said:


> A better high school might have better coaches and a better multi-year program to develop uncertain Freshmen players into killer Seniors.


How does a 4 month season develop any player into a killer senior?

And how does being a killer senior in the spring season help with recruiting?


----------



## espola

Mullet said:


> How does a 4 month season develop any player into a killer senior?
> 
> And how does being a killer senior in the spring season help with recruiting?


I actually saw some local college coaches at our high school games (of course, that was many years ago).  When I went to talk with one of them about our players (I was running the HS team's webpage before they switched to MaxPreps) he already knew as much about them as I did.


----------



## Ellejustus

dk_b said:


> Can you explain the waiver?  Genuinely curious.


Being a good soccer player can help you get admitted to a private HS.  DA recognizes that and is accommodating to that group of people. However, if it's for social reasons then it's a big fat No!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

timbuck said:


> Not sure what part of OC you are from.  But the south oc schools have about 50 freshman at their summer camp/leagues. (At least on the girls side)


South brah.  We have big numbers too.  However, they're not DA players coming out.  That's not a knock on the girls coming out.  They play ECNL or SCDSL because some play Volleyball and track and or other things.  Their good players. We have a great program.


----------



## Mullet

espola said:


> I actually saw some local college coaches at our high school games (of course, that was many years ago).  When I went to talk with one of them about our players (I was running the HS team's webpage before they switched to MaxPreps) he already knew as much about them as I did.


It is certainly possible that local college coaches will go to a HS game to watch a particular kid. The problem is the coach is always going to walk away wondering how the player would look with and against better players. If you are playing in ECNL and HS you had better be All Met or All State at HS. 

Now, if collegiate ambitions are modest to non-existent then have at it. It is fun and all of the many other non-soccer/intangible benefits but otherwise leave it till perhaps junior and senior year for the experience.


----------



## espola

Ellejustus said:


> Being a good soccer player can help you get admitted to a private HS.  DA recognizes that and is accommodating to that group of people. However, if it's for social reasons then it's a big fat No!!!


Has anyone who applied for the waiver ever been denied?


----------



## espola

Mullet said:


> It is certainly possible that local college coaches will go to a HS game to watch a particular kid. The problem is the coach is always going to walk away wondering how the player would look with and against better players. If you are playing in ECNL and HS you had better be All Met or All State at HS.
> 
> Now, if collegiate ambitions are modest to non-existent then have at it. It is fun and all of the many other non-soccer/intangible benefits but otherwise leave it till perhaps junior and senior year for the experience.


If you are a HS Senior and have your college commitment all sewn up and have not been invited to any National Youth Camps, why would you go through the aggravation and added costs of DA?


----------



## Mullet

espola said:


> If you are a HS Senior and have your college commitment all sewn up and have not been invited to any National Youth Camps, why would you go through the aggravation and added costs of DA?


True but ECNL isn't cheaper than DA and ECNL is really only 6 months versus 10 months of DA.

And if you are already committed then whether you play HS or not is really a conversation between the player and the college coach.


----------



## ToonArmy

How about a waiver for the fee of high school soccer. Some schools aren't cheap for that limited time even summer camp or whatever that was cost money. Maybe the best thing to do during the club break of high school season is actually take a break for once.


----------



## dk_b

espola said:


> Has anyone who applied for the waiver ever been denied?


I still want to hear more about this "waiver" - as I noted, the DA policies are express that HS is permitted where a kid is obligated to play sports to satisfy extracurricular requirements.  Hard for me to believe without seeing the actual that a kid who as on athletic scholarship to HS would be addressed by DA rules.  In areas where there is open enrollment among public schools, some kids make decisions based on sports or debate or music.  If DA is permitting a waiver b/c kids went to a private schools for sports reasons, it would be opening itself up to a different levels of criticism and allegations of elitism.  For all I know (and based on what @Ellejustus is saying, I certainly don't know), such a waiver does exist and DA/US Soccer could care little about criticism.  But I'd want to see it.


----------



## espola

dk_b said:


> I still want to hear more about this "waiver" - as I noted, the DA policies are express that HS is permitted where a kid is obligated to play sports to satisfy extracurricular requirements.  Hard for me to believe without seeing the actual that a kid who as on athletic scholarship to HS would be addressed by DA rules.  In areas where there is open enrollment among public schools, some kids make decisions based on sports or debate or music.  If DA is permitting a waiver b/c kids went to a private schools for sports reasons, it would be opening itself up to a different levels of criticism and allegations of elitism.  For all I know (and based on what @Ellejustus is saying, I certainly don't know), such a waiver does exist and DA/US Soccer could care little about criticism.  But I'd want to see it.


The waiver issue has been a point of criticism since DA was founded, and especially since they started enforcing the no-HS rule for boys a couple of years after that.  Most of those private schools already have an "elite" reputation to uphold.  The DA waiver is consistent with that.


----------



## dk_b

dk_b said:


> I still want to hear more about this "waiver" - as I noted, the DA policies are express that HS is permitted where a kid is obligated to play sports to satisfy extracurricular requirements.  Hard for me to believe without seeing the actual that a kid who as on athletic scholarship to HS would be addressed by DA rules.  In areas where there is open enrollment among public schools, some kids make decisions based on sports or debate or music.  If DA is permitting a waiver b/c kids went to a private schools for sports reasons, it would be opening itself up to a different levels of criticism and allegations of elitism.  For all I know (and based on what @Ellejustus is saying, I certainly don't know), such a waiver does exist and DA/US Soccer could care little about criticism.  But I'd want to see it.


Joke's on me, it turns out.  From what I can tell, the 2018-19 season permitted HS participation for two reasons - the extracurricular requirement that I noted AND the "admitted to private school for soccer" requirement that @Ellejustus mentioned (I say, "from what I can tell" b/c this is from excerpts I found that are posted elsewhere; the actual waiver language may differ but I can't find the primary source for 2018-19).  I found the wavier for 2019-20 and it has been modified:  ONLY the "admitted for soccer" remains.  What an f'in joke. Poor kid who does not have access to those types of schools (and don't assume that just because something like that exists in your area, it exists elsewhere).  Poor kid who may go into a private school on a needs-based scholarship and really wants to represent her school but is told "no" by US Soccer.  It really bugs the crap out of me that the choice is taken from the players and families.


----------



## dk_b

espola said:


> The waiver issue has been a point of criticism since DA was founded, and especially since they started enforcing the no-HS rule for boys a couple of years after that.  Most of those private schools already have an "elite" reputation to uphold.  The DA waiver is consistent with that.


Indeed - well-stated.


----------



## Ellejustus

espola said:


> Don't be like that.  Tell us why.


It's just my opinion based on my experience.  As we all know in the OC, before the DA, ECNL was the top league in OC. The only girls that didn't play HS Soccer were the very very best players who were told not to play from certain clubs. Blues fully supported both.  It was a choice.  You could also choose to rest or do something else.  As I set here at freshman orientation at the Fowler college of business at SDSU (my son is smart) it came to me.  The DA is sexy. OC likes to be on the cutting edge.  DA sells the ultimate contest: Making the YNT. US scouts are watching they say..... (Disclaimer: many of these "scouts" had ODP shirts on the day before.....lol).  The coaches and the parents are the only ones I have heard from that says, "high school soccer sucks."  Coaches say it because they dont want you to get hurt and parents say it because the coaches say it.  There you go


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerfan2 said:


> Along the lines of college recruiting I did some checking. Using TopDrawer as a source, the 2022 class has 102 players committed so far. I expected that there would be more ECNL players committed since there are more ECNL teams, but that isn’t the case. The results:
> 55 play for DA
> 37 play for ECNL
> 10 play for neither/other
> 
> Of those, the following % are committed to NCAA top 15 ranked programs:
> DA 45%
> ECNL 32%
> Neither/other 10%
> 
> This is early data and a small sample as only 102 2022’s committed prior to the May 1 rule change, but it does confirm what I see through my lens. The talent is split between DA and ECNL but tilted towards DA for U15/U16. It will be interesting to check again in a couple years and see if the ratio holds.



The top colleges also recruit top international talent so you have to remember that.  On my player's college team (a top 5 program) there are several Canadians, a couple of Aussies, a Japanese player and an English player not to mention that almost everyone else has various years of YNT experience.  My point is that the top coaches aren't recruiting teams or leagues.  They are picking players that will make an impact for their program and to be quite honest they trust their eyes more than anything else.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dos Equis said:


> Keep checking, I agree it will indeed be interesting, but nothing more.
> 
> I did not mention league for a reason -- I said getting a measure of the team and the coach (and a player's effort as well).   I have yet to find a top college coach that emphasized league in our conversations.


Before I write something I should look for your post because you probably already said it in a much more eloquent and less confrontational manner.  

You are a scholar and a gentleman...


----------



## oh canada

Mullet said:


> But you're paying more for less AND paying for anything extra on top of it.
> 
> What is so long term focus about 1/3 of the season spent away from the club coach and the higher level club players and training for HS?


mental health of the player, injury risk reduction (if playing a different sport or none during winter), the chance to add a different non-soccer skill to your child's toolbox, maybe she gets a higher grade in a class or two and raises her gpa, bonding with HS classmates/teammates, playing with girls 2-3 years older then 2-3 years younger...etc...


----------



## MakeAPlay

Josep said:


> Who said I want ECNL to go away?  There’s so much whining about HS and DA forbidding it.  Most girls who play DA don’t care.  It’s the parents who have some sort of myopic nostalgia for it.
> 
> For kids who want HS and a high level of soccer, there’s ECNL.  It’s actually a pretty good set of choices between the DA and ECNL.  If you’re in SoCal you have great options.
> 
> ECNL is a fine program for girls. We have a lot of friends playing ECNL.  My kid played ECNL.  ECNL kids get into college.  If my kid was hell bent on playing HS, they’d stick with ECNL.  I don’t want to see it go away.
> 
> But I don’t see the need to change DA.  It is what it is for people who want that program.  Kids accept no HS and 4 practices a week.
> 
> I’d guess that a majority of the kids in DA don’t care about HS soccer and the the ECNL kids don’t really care about not playing DA.
> 
> You’ve essentially got the AL vs NL.  One has DH (HS) and one doesn’t.   Otherwise it’s 90 min games on the same size fields with coaches attending both of their bigger events.


Agreed.  However, college soccer is more like high school than DA (up to 5 year age differences on the same team, cliques, homework, training during the season 3 days a week.  DA should only have about 24-40 kids playing in all of SoCal in any age group.  Instead they have 250+ allegedly elite players.  It is hilarious.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccer43 said:


> I agree with much of what you are saying.  Except, much of what is reported on this forum is personal opinion and anecdotal experiences.  The only way to know for sure that kids in DA don't care about high school would be to do an actual survey.  The same for ECNL kids not caring about playing DA.  I think the decisions are more complex than this and I do see players feeling pressured and manipulated.  I wouldn't say that across the board everyone is happy with the current status and would venture to say that most would prefer one league where the best could play against the best rather than the tired debate of ECNL vs DA.



We used to have that when my player first started playing club.  It was call Coast Soccer Premier League.  Too bad they didn't allow Surf in.  Gary Sparks (God rest his soul) is the reason that the landscape is so fractured in SoCal.


----------



## espola

MakeAPlay said:


> We used to have that when my player first started playing club.  It was call Coast Soccer Premier League.  Too bad they didn't allow Surf in.  Gary Sparks (God rest his soul) is the reason that the landscape is so fractured in SoCal.


Surf was in CSL for a while, but then had an argument with GS about team placements in Premier Division.  After they helped form SCDSL, they abandoned Presidio League with enough nasty words on their way out that PL wouldn't let their teams back in for a while.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> It's just my opinion based on my experience.  As we all know in the OC, before the DA, ECNL was the top league in OC. The only girls that didn't play HS Soccer were the very very best players who were told not to play from certain clubs. Blues fully supported both.  It was a choice.  You could also choose to rest or do something else.  As I set here at freshman orientation at the Fowler college of business at SDSU (my son is smart) it came to me.  The DA is sexy. OC likes to be on the cutting edge.  DA sells the ultimate contest: Making the YNT. US scouts are watching they say..... (Disclaimer: many of these "scouts" had ODP shirts on the day before.....lol).  The coaches and the parents are the only ones I have heard from that says, "high school soccer sucks."  Coaches say it because they dont want you to get hurt and parents say it because the coaches say it.  There you go


I tried to make my player skip high school and she did for the first month of her Junior year and hated it.  She was the team manager and her friends on the team spent the first month of the season grinding her to help their school win.  It matters to them even if the soccer sucks. 

Look at it this way.  On average in OC each school has about 2 really high level soccer players (of course the Private schools and Aliso Niguel have more).  Getting a varsity letter as a freshman, being team MVP as a freshman, those things bring social benefits which matter a TON to these kids.  The time goes fast.  My kid was the only freshman on Varsity and she was the only player on her team that was on the first team all-League team.

Ask your player if they could play and it wouldn't affect their standing with their club team and you might be surprised at what you hear.


----------



## MakeAPlay

espola said:


> Surf was in CSL for a while, but then had an argument with GS about team placements in Premier Division.  After they helped form SCDSL, they abandoned Presidio League with enough nasty words on their way out that PL wouldn't let their teams back in for a while.


I remember.  I live in San Diego county and my daughter played for Surf.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mullet said:


> But you're paying more for less AND paying for anything extra on top of it.
> 
> What is so long term focus about 1/3 of the season spent away from the club coach and the higher level club players and training for HS?


Prove that you are paying more.  Traveling soccer of any kind is expensive!  It never hurt my player and she only had two other players that played in the top league.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mullet said:


> How does a 4 month season develop any player into a killer senior?
> 
> And how does being a killer senior in the spring season help with recruiting?


If a player doesn't come in ready to play in college, then they might never get on the field.  My player played high school and has started every game of her career since she stepped on her college campus and has played 6000 minutes her first three seasons.  

It definitely helped her.


----------



## timmyh

MakeAPlay said:


> We used to have that when my player first started playing club.  It was call Coast Soccer Premier League.  Too bad they didn't allow Surf in.  Gary Sparks (God rest his soul) is the reason that the landscape is so fractured in SoCal.


We used to have it in Texas, too (Lake Highlands Classic League).   I don't know a single person who thinks the current league framework is better now than it was a decade ago.

Fwiw, I do think some things are better, though. Generally speaking, the training my youngest gets is better than the training my oldest got at the same age.  Best practices for effective training sessions seem to have spread and a strong trend toward attempting to build possession-based systems are much more prevalent.


----------



## MakeAPlay

timmyh said:


> We used to have it in Texas, too (Lake Highlands Classic League).   I don't know a single person who thinks the current league framework is better now than it was a decade ago.
> 
> Fwiw, I do think some things are better, though. Generally speaking, the training my youngest gets is better than the training my oldest got at the same age a decade ago.  Best practices for effective training sessions seem to have spread and a strong trend toward attempting to build possession-based systems has flourished in the past 5 years.


I remember.  The Dallas Texans, Sting, FC Dallas, D'Feeters.  They used to come to Surf Cup and I would chat up the parents and yes the only League that was equivalent to the old CSL was the LHCL.


----------



## Soccerfan2

MakeAPlay said:


> The top colleges also recruit top international talent so you have to remember that.  On my player's college team (a top 5 program) there are several Canadians, a couple of Aussies, a Japanese player and an English player not to mention that almost everyone else has various years of YNT experience.  My point is that the top coaches aren't recruiting teams or leagues.  They are picking players that will make an impact for their program and to be quite honest they trust their eyes more than anything else.


I agree with everything you said. I counted the internationals (in this case there’s only one so far because it’s early) in the neither/other category. Your daughter’s school has 7 2022’s committed and all 7 are coming from DA


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerfan2 said:


> I agree with everything you said. I counted the internationals (in this case there’s only one so far because it’s early) in the neither/other category. Your daughter’s school has 7 2022’s committed and all 7 are coming from DA


I hear you, however, most of those players play for Andres Deza who used to coach the DeAnza Force ECNL team (his daughter Luca who starts for Cal and Tierna Davidson played for him).  They are possession players which is what my daughter's team recruits.  Coaches recruit players not teams.  My kid's team never finished higher than 4th place and her last two years they didn't qualify for the ECNL Champions League yet she has started every game in college and played about 6000 minutes the last 3 years.


----------



## Soccerfan2

MakeAPlay said:


> I hear you, however, most of those players play for Andres Deza who used to coach the DeAnza Force ECNL team (his daughter Luca who starts for Cal and Tierna Davidson played for him).  They are possession players which is what my daughter's team recruits.  Coaches recruit players not teams.  My kid's team never finished higher than 4th place and her last two years they didn't qualify for the ECNL Champions League yet she has started every game in college and played about 6000 minutes the last 3 years.


I agree with all that too. I never argued differently on any of your points, except as I’ve said before I believe the landscape has changed somewhat over the past 2 years. They and Deza “used to” being part of the evidence. Anyway, like everyone else I’d like all the top kids to play each other. We’ve had a few local ECNL v DA friendlies recently in our area which has been nice.


----------



## dk_b

MakeAPlay said:


> I hear you, however, most of those players play for Andres Deza who used to coach the DeAnza Force ECNL team (his daughter Luca who starts for Cal and Tierna Davidson played for him).  They are possession players which is what my daughter's team recruits.  Coaches recruit players not teams.  My kid's team never finished higher than 4th place and her last two years they didn't qualify for the ECNL Champions League yet she has started every game in college and played about 6000 minutes the last 3 years.


Interestingly it was his 01 quakes team that I was mentioning before (who had kids give up their spring DA so they could play HS). I think highly of him as a coach - my player has trained with him and has played against his teams many times since she was quite small. There is no coach up our way who commits to teaching possession without regard to results like he does. And even as his current players know that from a soccer standpoint, sticking with him would make them the most “ready” for their next chapters, they opted to play HS and forgo DA for spring.

(As a related aside: I’d have never seen @SpeedK1llz player, or met him, if it hadn’t been for HS soccer and the fact that neither of our kids was prohibited from playing. It was through the NorCal version of this board that we connected and then we met at a non-league game in my player’s freshman and his player’s senior year. Of course I’ve been a fan of his girl ever since.)


----------



## Surf Zombie

So Cal Blues just won the U16 ECNL playoffs.


----------



## Swoosh

Surf Zombie said:


> So Cal Blues just won the U16 ECNL playoffs.


Blues with two championships (U19 and U16).  Slammers - PDA U17 final and U14 final.  

ECNL is Northwest and SoCal.  
DA is Texas and SoCal.  

If SoCal would just realize that they can be their own federation, we would never have to go anywhere.


----------



## Surf Zombie

PDA won U13 and has teams playing in U14, U15 & U17 finals today.  Incredible run.  

MY DD's team crosses paths with PDA's 2007 team every year and they are always one of the toughest teams we see.


----------



## dk_b

Surf Zombie said:


> PDA won U13 and has teams playing in U14, U15 & U17 finals today.  Incredible run.
> 
> MY DD's team crosses paths with PDA's 2007 team every year and they are always one of the toughest teams we see.


My daughter’s team played both U17 finalists. Should be a good game. I will hold off on my prediction of the result.


----------



## futboldad1

dk_b said:


> My daughter’s team played both U17 finalists. Should be a good game. I will hold off on my prediction of the result.


PDA 4-1 LAFC u17


----------



## dk_b

futboldad1 said:


> PDA 4-1 LAFC u17


I had not checked ECNL when I commented (obviously). PDA was the best team my kid’s team played this year (our girls eeked out a 1-0 win) but I thought LAFC would win based on the ability of a couple of players to carve things up. Pda’s discipline - esp in the back - was impressive and my guess is that that must have carried the day.


----------



## vegasguy

Swoosh said:


> Blues with two championships (U19 and U16).  Slammers
> 
> If SoCal would just realize that they can be their own federation, we would never have to go anywhere.



And under that socal federation those kids would not get US YNT looks because it isn't DA.  And now we are all in the same page with the arrogance of US Soccer.


----------



## vegasguy

Soccerfan2 and Soccerminion you disagree and I am not sure if you disagree with my statement that socal girls would not get ynt looks if socal had it's own federation but the statement is out there that if you are not DA you dont get ynt looks.  Do you think US Soccer would change if Socal had it's own league outside of DA? The answer is no.  US soccer believes in their program and if socal pulled out of DA and ECNL they would look outside of socal for YNT only


----------



## offtopic

dk_b said:


> Interestingly it was his 01 quakes team that I was mentioning before (who had kids give up their spring DA so they could play HS). I think highly of him as a coach - my player has trained with him and has played against his teams many times since she was quite small. There is no coach up our way who commits to teaching possession without regard to results like he does. And even as his current players know that from a soccer standpoint, sticking with him would make them the most “ready” for their next chapters, they opted to play HS and forgo DA for spring.


Mohammed (Lamorinda) is pretty much identical. Deza is a better recruiter and has significantly more resources at his disposal.


----------



## Kicker4Life

dk_b said:


> Interestingly it was his 01 quakes team that I was mentioning before (who had kids give up their spring DA so they could play HS)..


Out of curiosity, how many of those girls were already committed?


----------



## dk_b

Kicker4Life said:


> Out of curiosity, how many of those girls were already committed?


All of whom I know about.


----------



## dk_b

offtopic said:


> Mohammed (Lamorinda) is pretty much identical. Deza is a better recruiter and has significantly more resources at his disposal.


I agree with you to a great extent though I’m not sure he commits to such a degree (or maybe it’s just that LAMO teams do not quite get to the same level so you never see them fully turn the corner of applying that style against top teams).  I do like watching LAMO teams play but when I see them execute it is usually against good but not great teams.


----------



## Blank95661

It looks like a tourney in the Bay Area has a pretty cool showcase of ECCL/DA teams https://rageshowcase.org/2019/07/13/ecnl-da-matches-during-rage-college-showcase/
I hope we see more of this in the future.


----------



## dk_b

Blank95661 said:


> It looks like a tourney in the Bay Area has a pretty cool showcase of ECCL/DA teams https://rageshowcase.org/2019/07/13/ecnl-da-matches-during-rage-college-showcase/
> I hope we see more of this in the future.


I hope Pleasanton Sportspark has had a major redo because those fields can be pretty rough for a showcase.  My guess is that Fields 10 and 11 are the "best" that that venue has to offer but Rage uses two other venues that are better - I'm surprised they did not have these marquee games at those locations.


----------



## MakeAPlay

dk_b said:


> All of whom I know about.



Sounds like high school soccer and the social benefits mattered to them.  I know that it mattered to my daughter and most of her friends that played at a similar level.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MakeAPlay said:


> Sounds like high school soccer and the social benefits mattered to them.  I know that it mattered to my daughter and most of her friends that played at a similar level.


Sounds like they played DA until they committed then left to play in their final year of HS now that the pressure was off.


----------



## dk_b

MakeAPlay said:


> Sounds like high school soccer and the social benefits mattered to them.  I know that it mattered to my daughter and most of her friends that played at a similar level.


To contrast, the two Mustang teams closest in age - 01(/00) and 02 - had nearly all play HS soccer and have nearly all graduating seniors from the 01 group committed (I know of a couple who were not planning on playing in college) and 13 or so of the 02s committed. The Quakes have had better YNT representation than Mustang and Deza teaches them how to play some nice soccer but I do think the college representation will be quite similar and the ones from Mustang who did not play HS got to make their own choices not to play.


----------



## dk_b

Kicker4Life said:


> Sounds like they played DA until they committed then left to play in their final year of HS now that the pressure was off.


Most (all, I think) committed well ahead of their senior year.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kicker4Life said:


> Sounds like they played DA until they committed then left to play in their final year of HS now that the pressure was off.


The pressure is never really on the top players.  They are going to get identified because they can help a team win.  They just have to be playing at a sufficient level for a top coach to see them play.  Let me give you an example.  Hallie Mace for my daughter's team wasn't on anyone's radar until her junior year of high school because she was a multi sport athlete (she is one helluva volleyball player too).  She started playing U18 ECNL her junior year and got an offer from UCLA when they saw her when they came to check up on one of their committed recruits.

The kids for the most part want to represent their school.  I was against it initially but my daughter wanted to do it and for me if it was important to her then that is all that mattered to me.


----------



## MakeAPlay

What parents need to realize is that US Soccer isn't the one with the power.  They aren't paying anybody's bills and they don't really care about what is best for the holistic development of your player.  All they care about is whether your player is a commodity that they can benefit from.  They try to slant it so that it seems like a top player won't have the chance to be seen when the truth is that in order to get on the national team you other than two players you had to have been a star in college.  Talent and desire is the key.  Not a particular league.  The vast majority of coaches are simply talent aggregators and not talent developers.  

Get a good coach on a good team that gets into the good showcases and let your player do the things that make them happy.  They will last a much longer time in the sport.


----------



## Dos Equis

MakeAPlay said:


> The pressure is never really on the top players.  They are going to get identified because they can help a team win.  They just have to be playing at a sufficient level for a top coach to see them play.  Let me give you an example.  Hallie Mace for my daughter's team wasn't on anyone's radar until her junior year of high school because she was a multi sport athlete (she is one helluva volleyball player too).  She started playing U18 ECNL her junior year and got an offer from UCLA when they saw her when they came to check up on one of their committed recruits.
> 
> The kids for the most part want to represent their school.  I was against it initially but my daughter wanted to do it and for me if it was important to her then that is all that mattered to me.


In all fairness, you are talking about a very small number of top players who do not feel that pressure. While there may be 6-8 players who will get college offers on most top teams just by being seen, getting the specific college(s) you are interested in to pay attention to you can be a challenge.  

All my kids played HS sports.  At their school, the teams generally were pretty bad, the coaching very uneven, but the experience was irreplaceable. All those non-soccer development related reasons/benefits that US Soccer scoffs at, helped shape my kids into who they are today.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dos Equis said:


> In all fairness, you are talking about a very small number of top players who do not feel that pressure. While there may be 6-8 players who will get college offers on most top teams just by being seen, getting the specific college(s) you are interested in to pay attention to you can be a challenge.
> 
> All my kids played HS sports.  At their school, the teams generally were pretty bad, the coaching very uneven, but the experience was irreplaceable. All those non-soccer development related reasons/benefits that US Soccer scoffs at, helped shape my kids into who they are today.


I agree with you 100%.  My point is also that it is a small number of players that are "elite" and an even smaller number with the talent and drive to get to the full WNT and you have a league (GDA) that uses the thousands of other players to give those few players the optimal path to get there.  The problem is that basically everyone else is just cannon fodder for the few purple unicorns out there that will get to the full team.  Even the unicorns have to give up what you and I would consider a normal childhood and development path that does fine in providing enough talent that a decent coach will continue to have our women's team in the top 2-3 in the world.


----------



## MacDre

Good info above.  Thanks to all for sharing.  My question to y’all, is if the above information is still valid in the “new era” of GDA and European investment in the women’s game?  For example, now there are teenagers going pro (domestically and abroad) and being encouraged to skip college all together.  FIFA also announced recently plans to invest more in the women’s game and it seems to me that opportunities for “elite players” will increase with more investment.
I understand that in the past that High School and college soccer were important.  But isn’t this model becoming obsolete considering how our U20’s and U17’s got the brakes beat off of them in recent International tournaments?  Is what is happening at the U20 and U17 level indicative of our future if High School and college continue to be advocated because of it’s past success in an era where other nations were too sexist to invest in the women’s game?
Can someone please help me out with a more nuanced examples of community/social benefits of the High School soccer issue, because I just don’t get it.  Isn’t club soccer socially beneficial and can’t friends, family, and community support a player at their club games too?  What makes High School soccer so special, community oriented, and socially beneficial?
Wouldn’t a 2 semester college soccer season resolve most of the above issues?


----------



## dk_b

I'm reluctant to conclude too much about a new landscape of opportunity until I see FIFA's investment and that from the large European clubs and how that impacts younger women/girl players. Even the fact that we see teenage girls going pro - the world is a big place with lots of players.  Even a handful of pros doesn't really indicate a trend to me.  If playing professionally becomes a viable path for more than just a couple of players now and again, say a path for a group that is (in numbers) akin to 2 full squads of players and playing professionally becomes a viable career path (w/o having to worry about big endorsement dollars), then I will say, "yes, there is a change."  Others may feel differently.

With respect to high school - I am sure that my kid is not terribly unique among the kids of people on this board (though I think this is less common in NorCal and more common in SoCal).  She does not play in her home community - she commutes to practice and games and while she has great bonds with her club teammates and I consider their parents among my good friends, she is not playing with her social friends, with her community.  Playing HS is a different experience - she's playing with girls she's played with and against since the micro rec days when they played 4v4 with no GK.  She's part of a HS community that does support its athletes - sometimes that means going out to the games and sometimes it means people high fiving in the hallways or a teacher or support staff person making a comment to her about a recent result or hearing she had been named to this team or that.  Younger girls might see her doing a private workout and think, "oh, when I get to HS, I'm going to work like that.  I can't wait to be a _____".  She and her club teammates play at a high level and give up a lot - like all of your players do - to achieve what they have achieved.  All the kids have missed birthday parties and dances and other parties and short trips with friends.  A bit of all of that does happen during the HS season.

The elite among the elite teen players are still teens.  They do need to be kids and grow to be adults.  Their paths may differ but athlete after athlete has shown that that path, even for the elite among the elite, CAN include HS.  If a player will suffer so much by taking 3 or 4 months off to play HS, I sure hope that player never gets injured, has a personal tragedy, feels any temporary burnout.  If a kid can't take a break w/o the path getting swept away, I worry about that player.  (to be clear, if a player CHOOSES not to play, CHOOSES to not take breaks, etc., etc., etc., I am quite supportive because that is the player's CHOICE).


----------



## MarkM

dk_b said:


> I'm reluctant to conclude too much about a new landscape of opportunity until I see FIFA's investment and that from the large European clubs and how that impacts younger women/girl players. Even the fact that we see teenage girls going pro - the world is a big place with lots of players.  Even a handful of pros doesn't really indicate a trend to me.  If playing professionally becomes a viable path for more than just a couple of players now and again, say a path for a group that is (in numbers) akin to 2 full squads of players and playing professionally becomes a viable career path (w/o having to worry about big endorsement dollars), then I will say, "yes, there is a change."  Others may feel differently.
> 
> With respect to high school - I am sure that my kid is not terribly unique among the kids of people on this board (though I think this is less common in NorCal and more common in SoCal).  She does not play in her home community - she commutes to practice and games and while she has great bonds with her club teammates and I consider their parents among my good friends, she is not playing with her social friends, with her community.  Playing HS is a different experience - she's playing with girls she's played with and against since the micro rec days when they played 4v4 with no GK.  She's part of a HS community that does support its athletes - sometimes that means going out to the games and sometimes it means people high fiving in the hallways or a teacher or support staff person making a comment to her about a recent result or hearing she had been named to this team or that.  Younger girls might see her doing a private workout and think, "oh, when I get to HS, I'm going to work like that.  I can't wait to be a _____".  She and her club teammates play at a high level and give up a lot - like all of your players do - to achieve what they have achieved.  All the kids have missed birthday parties and dances and other parties and short trips with friends.  A bit of all of that does happen during the HS season.
> 
> The elite among the elite teen players are still teens.  They do need to be kids and grow to be adults.  Their paths may differ but athlete after athlete has shown that that path, even for the elite among the elite, CAN include HS.  If a player will suffer so much by taking 3 or 4 months off to play HS, I sure hope that player never gets injured, has a personal tragedy, feels any temporary burnout.  If a kid can't take a break w/o the path getting swept away, I worry about that player.  (to be clear, if a player CHOOSES not to play, CHOOSES to not take breaks, etc., etc., etc., I am quite supportive because that is the player's CHOICE).


Do you think CIF should eliminate the rule preventing kids from playing club soccer during the HS season?


----------



## dk_b

MarkM said:


> Do you think CIF should eliminate the rule preventing kids from playing club soccer during the HS season?


I do not. One of the biggest factors in ACL injuries is the hamstring - either tired from use (or overuse) or a strength imbalance between the hammy and the quad. Playing both is too much and puts kids at risk for more devastating injuries. (Btw: one of the best lectures on ACL prevention that I ever attended made this point - soccer players should NEVER do leg lefts as part of weight training because their quads are almost always strong and often overdeveloped. And if out of balance, even with strong hammies, the quads will pull forward more than the hammies can counteract by pulling back. The result: more stress on the knees and more risk for ACL tears)


----------



## espola

dk_b said:


> I do not. One of the biggest factors in ACL injuries is the hamstring - either tired from use (or overuse) or a strength imbalance between the hammy and the quad. Playing both is too much and puts kids at risk for more devastating injuries. (Btw: one of the best lectures on ACL prevention that I ever attended made this point - soccer players should NEVER do leg lefts as part of weight training because their quads are almost always strong and often overdeveloped. And if out of balance, even with strong hammies, the quads will pull forward more than the hammies can counteract by pulling back. The result: more stress on the knees and more risk for ACL tears)


My kids' club soccer teams never did weight training.


----------



## dk_b

espola said:


> My kids' club soccer teams never did weight training.


I don’t know many who do but I do know players who do on their own (with a trainer or at a gym). But I was trying to make the broader point of avoiding doing too much to build up quads to the neglect of hamstrings and, more importantly, kids need to avoid overtired muscles.  I like that both DA and ECNL avoid 2 games/day at showcases and playoffs.


----------



## RedCard

dk_b said:


> I don’t know many who do but I do know players who do on their own (with a trainer or at a gym). But I was trying to make the broader point of avoiding doing too much to build up quads to the neglect of hamstrings and, more importantly, kids need to avoid overtired muscles.  I like that both DA and ECNL avoid 2 games/day at showcases and playoffs.


My son did a couple of DA showcases during this last season. One of them, we did play 2 games on Saturday, but it was 25 minute halves which was weird. Felt like we were back in U8...lol


----------



## MakeAPlay

MacDre said:


> Good info above.  Thanks to all for sharing.  My question to y’all, is if the above information is still valid in the “new era” of GDA and European investment in the women’s game?  For example, now there are teenagers going pro (domestically and abroad) and being encouraged to skip college all together.  FIFA also announced recently plans to invest more in the women’s game and it seems to me that opportunities for “elite players” will increase with more investment.
> I understand that in the past that High School and college soccer were important.  But isn’t this model becoming obsolete considering how our U20’s and U17’s got the brakes beat off of them in recent International tournaments?  Is what is happening at the U20 and U17 level indicative of our future if High School and college continue to be advocated because of it’s past success in an era where other nations were too sexist to invest in the women’s game?
> Can someone please help me out with a more nuanced examples of community/social benefits of the High School soccer issue, because I just don’t get it.  Isn’t club soccer socially beneficial and can’t friends, family, and community support a player at their club games too?  What makes High School soccer so special, community oriented, and socially beneficial?
> Wouldn’t a 2 semester college soccer season resolve most of the above issues?


Anson Dorrance definitely thinks that what we have here is better than what they have in Europe and many foreign players still play soccer in US colleges.  The Dutch coach even played at North Carolina.

I think that the World Cup showed that our college system produces more than enough talent for a decent coach to win.  Every US starter in the final played at a D1 college.  Many players on multiple teams played college in the US.  Until someone can overcome our numerical advantage in terms of player pool size (320+ well funded teams training 25-30 players each),  I just don’t see our team being outside the top 2-3.

What country in Europe has that large of a pool of players between the ages of 18 and 23 being trained at top notch facilities most better than the facilities that our top division (the NWSL) trains at.

Regarding high school, girls sports are a social activity and there is no better benefit than being a freshman star on varsity.  Most schools only have a couple of players that play at the highest levels so high level club players tend to be stars and being a star at anything in high school has many benefits, but I’m sure that you already know that.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MakeAPlay

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/82956/anson-dorrance-on-an-extraordinary-womens-world-c.html

As usual Anson Dorrance is a good read and has great insight regarding the women's game.


----------



## espola

MakeAPlay said:


> https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/82956/anson-dorrance-on-an-extraordinary-womens-world-c.html
> 
> As usual Anson Dorrance is a good read and has great insight regarding the women's game.


What did he have to say?


----------



## espola

MakeAPlay said:


> Anson Dorrance definitely thinks that what we have here is better than what they have in Europe and many foreign players still play soccer in US colleges.  The Dutch coach even played at North Carolina.
> 
> I think that the World Cup showed that our college system produces more than enough talent for a decent coach to win.  Every US starter in the final played at a D1 college.  Many players on multiple teams played college in the US.  Until someone can overcome our numerical advantage in terms of player pool size (320+ well funded teams training 25-30 players each),  I just don’t see our team being outside the top 2-3.
> 
> What country in Europe has that large of a pool of players between the ages of 18 and 23 being trained at top notch facilities most better than the facilities that our top division (the NWSL) trains at.
> 
> Regarding high school, girls sports are a social activity and there is no better benefit than being a freshman star on varsity.  Most schools only have a couple of players that play at the highest levels so high level club players tend to be stars and being a star at anything in high school has many benefits, but I’m sure that you already know that.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


If the European countries ever get serious about women's soccer they will set up women's leagues better than NCAA D1, since they will not be worried about little things like getting passing grades in difficult subjects or finding funding for scholarships.


----------



## Mullet

MacDre said:


> Good info above.  Thanks to all for sharing.  My question to y’all, is if the above information is still valid in the “new era” of GDA and European investment in the women’s game?  For example, now there are teenagers going pro (domestically and abroad) and being encouraged to skip college all together.  FIFA also announced recently plans to invest more in the women’s game and it seems to me that opportunities for “elite players” will increase with more investment.
> I understand that in the past that High School and college soccer were important.  But isn’t this model becoming obsolete considering how our U20’s and U17’s got the brakes beat off of them in recent International tournaments?  Is what is happening at the U20 and U17 level indicative of our future if High School and college continue to be advocated because of it’s past success in an era where other nations were too sexist to invest in the women’s game?
> Can someone please help me out with a more nuanced examples of community/social benefits of the High School soccer issue, because I just don’t get it.  Isn’t club soccer socially beneficial and can’t friends, family, and community support a player at their club games too?  What makes High School soccer so special, community oriented, and socially beneficial?
> Wouldn’t a 2 semester college soccer season resolve most of the above issues?


Our USWNT's are currently successful because the lure of playing in college, thanks to Title 9, makes the youth game so driven and competitive. We simply have more girls playing and playing at higher levels than our European counterparts had previously.

BUUUUT that lead is coming to an end as European pro clubs are investing in the women's game and they are using the same training models and academy systems that have worked for the men for years. The benefits of college and high school soccer have not revealed themselves on the international stage on the men's side and the women's game may follow suit within a generation.

What does that have to the Girls High School Soccer? Not much other than the notion that HS soccer is developmental is going to look quaint in due time. Yes there are benefits to high school but they all seem to sound the same as the benefits of rec soccer. It is fun, social status in school. I played High School sports


MakeAPlay said:


> Anson Dorrance definitely thinks that what we have here is better than what they have in Europe and many foreign players still play soccer in US colleges.  The Dutch coach even played at North Carolina.
> 
> I think that the World Cup showed that our college system produces more than enough talent for a decent coach to win.  Every US starter in the final played at a D1 college.  Many players on multiple teams played college in the US.  Until someone can overcome our numerical advantage in terms of player pool size (320+ well funded teams training 25-30 players each),  I just don’t see our team being outside the top 2-3.
> 
> What country in Europe has that large of a pool of players between the ages of 18 and 23 being trained at top notch facilities most better than the facilities that our top division (the NWSL) trains at.
> 
> Regarding high school, girls sports are a social activity and there is no better benefit than being a freshman star on varsity.  Most schools only have a couple of players that play at the highest levels so high level club players tend to be stars and being a star at anything in high school has many benefits, but I’m sure that you already know that.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.



The issue with High school soccer really is about volume and over-training. A kid is not going to suddenly forget how to play soccer because they spend a couple months playing HS but they are significantly increasing their risk of injury due to over training. A ECNL schedule plus HS can lead to 40 games in a 6 month span. That along with the number of practices is frankly diminishing returns.

As far as our "system" with college compared to Europe in time it will look about the same as the men's side compared to Europe. 

Title 9 and the financial college benefits make soccer a prime youth sport target for girls. This means we do have leagues like ECNL and GDA where the most driven parents/kids can get pretty high level training at younger ages. It is a lead on Europe that we have capitalized on. The desire to play in college for some financial benefit is the real driver of our youth system on the girls side. High School is just kinda in the way of some of that and really contributes nothing to the player pool. The college hook through club is what has made the difference.

That said, our lead will not last as the European academies are seriously investing in the women's game. The Dutch will even play co-ed until 19 if necessary. They also didn't play in their first major tournament until 2009 and ten years later they reached the finals in the World Cup. Title 9 will always give us a deep player pool but where we will fall behind Europe is the quality and the PROFESSIONAL training during those college years. As women's professional leagues grow in Europe and the major big clubs keep investing their women will be playing and training as professionals while we will have student athletes.

Other examples of where our college approach has failed on the international stage, Basketball (We sent the Dream Team to restore order after our men's team lost in the previous Olympics), Hockey (Miracle On Ice not withstanding). We need a strong professional league that can pay our top women's players and allow them go directly pro and bypass the college game altogether. 

And as far as the European players coming here to play in college they are not sending their best. This has been the case on the men's side for some time. These European players essentially washed out of the pro academies and are cashing their soccer in for an education here. They are not coming here to become soccer players. This will also be more of a phenomena on the women's side as the pro game grows in Europe. 

We have a huge player pool thanks to Title 9 but without a strong and economically viable pro league our development will stagnate during the college years in comparison to Europe.


----------



## vegasguy

espola said:


> If the European countries ever get serious about women's soccer they will set up women's leagues better than NCAA D1, since they will not be worried about little things like getting passing grades in difficult subjects or finding funding for scholarships.



They have serious women's leagues. Real Madrid, Barca, PSG, Lyon, Man City, Chelsea all have great women' s leagues but don't support it financially as many of those countries culturally do not support the leagues the clubs do.  We love our USWNT and yet don't go to NWSL games.   Read what Anson Dorrance said and it is true.  Most countries can put out a top line and when a player is subbed out the quality falls dramatically.  Not for the USA because of College Soccer not DA.  Because we have thousands of young women fighting for field time.  France is full of starting subs and their bench is awful.  Players for Jamaica and Mexico and many other countries are players who could not make our national team and played at a US College.   The England #1 Keeper played for a SoCal Club.   So for the women, college works as a feeder to the USWNT.


----------



## Mullet

vegasguy said:


> They have serious women's leagues. Real Madrid, Barca, PSG, Lyon, Man City, Chelsea all have great women' s leagues but don't support it financially as many of those countries culturally do not support the leagues the clubs do.  We love our USWNT and yet don't go to NWSL games.   Read what Anson Dorrance said and it is true.  Most countries can put out a top line and when a player is subbed out the quality falls dramatically.  Not for the USA because of College Soccer not DA.  Because we have thousands of young women fighting for field time.  France is full of starting subs and their bench is awful.  Players for Jamaica and Mexico and many other countries are players who could not make our national team and played at a US College.   The England #1 Keeper played for a SoCal Club.   So for the women, college works as a feeder to the USWNT.



That is all true NOW but that is not where the game will be in Europe in ten years. 

As stated above, Title 9 provided the motivation for a deep player pool for colleges to choose from but the college game did not really develop our USWNT. 

As financial growth and incentives increase in the women's game in Europe their player pool will deepen and so will their substitution quality and depth. Anson is simply trying to protect the college game but having a viable professional league will do more for the women's game than D1 will in the long run. Sports like Baseball, Hockey, Tennis and Golf all do fine providing a pathway where college is not necessary even though it is still available. Certainly LeBron and Kobe did just fine without college as well, and Kobe played a lot of BB and soccer in Spain too.


----------



## Dubs

dk_b said:


> To contrast, the two Mustang teams closest in age - 01(/00) and 02 - had nearly all play HS soccer and have nearly all graduating seniors from the 01 group committed (I know of a couple who were not planning on playing in college) and 13 or so of the 02s committed. The Quakes have had better YNT representation than Mustang and Deza teaches them how to play some nice soccer but I do think the college representation will be quite similar and the ones from Mustang who did not play HS got to make their own choices not to play.


They have the YNT respresentation because Quakes are a DA club.  Not to say he doesn't have talented deserving players, but there are others as or more deserving not getting looks because of ECNL affiliation.


----------



## dk_b

Dubs said:


> They have the YNT respresentation because Quakes are a DA club.  Not to say he doesn't have talented deserving players, but there are others as or more deserving not getting looks because of ECNL affiliation.


I'm well aware of that - I was making no judgment on "deserving" and have a lot of strong thoughts that I would not share on this board about precisely this situation (GDA/ECNL/YNT).  My main point is that the end game for nearly all elite-elite players is college soccer because only the tiniest fraction makes a NT and, comparing those two clubs (at least in those age groups), Mustang and Quakes are on par and the Mustang girls had the opportunity to play HS soccer if they wanted (and nearly all did).  Other NorCal DA clubs in those age groups don't have close to the same measurable success in terms of college placement and those girls had no choice about HS soccer (since US Soccer made it for them) and a very, very small # (0 at most of these clubs) have been called into camp.


----------



## vegasguy

I understand that in the past that High School and college soccer were important.  But isn’t this model becoming obsolete considering how our U20’s and U17’s got the brakes beat off of them in recent International tournaments?  Is what is happening at the U20 and U17 level indicative of our future if High School and college continue to be advocated because of it’s past success in an era where other nations were too sexist to invest in the women’s game?
Can someone please help me out with a more nuanced examples of community/social benefits of the High School soccer issue, because I just don’t get it.  Isn’t club soccer socially beneficial and can’t friends, family, and community support a player at their club games too?  What makes High School soccer so special, community oriented, and socially beneficial?
Wouldn’t a 2 semester college soccer season resolve most of the above issues?[/QUOTE]


To the first question, Our U20's and U17's got the breaks beat off them....  Do not put to much credence into this.  At the Man City Cup our boys academies are beating Euro Academies at times at the U14 age.  Dig deeper and the soccer is different.  America is playing to win at that age and the Euro's are playing to develop (play the way you face, 1 and 2 touch, achieve the 2v1 solution and attack).  Our u20 men's killed it at the Youth World Cup in Poland this year making quarters and yet we don't qualify at the true World Cup.  Point being is development is different so the YNT teams are great but not a benchmark; at least in my opinion.   
Club v. High School.   Lose and do not get out of your pool at Surf, Blues, big name tournament and what do you do?  You pack up and head home.   Talk a little soccer and train.  You lose a playoff game to your rival and you will feel the difference even as a parent.  Differing sense of pride and most of all different passion.  You represent your student body, your High School.  Believe or not is still matters and that letter jacket still matters to many.   I didn't want my child to play high school.  He did anyway.  In the regional match against a rival and top seed, there were about 400kids cramming a sideline and behind my keeper son on the touchline.  Some yelling for him and some yelling things at him that I was shocked to hear.  In a tight match the boys on the field played harder than you see at most Surf finals.  It was intense, kids chanting my son's name and when that whistle went off and the students ran on the field it was their World Cup for that day.  You don't get that from club.  Do I think it will have an affect on my son and his personal development.  Yes.  Am I glad he plays HS.  Heck yes it is fun for us to watch too.  It is different than Club for sure.


----------



## dk_b

vegasguy said:


> I understand that in the past that High School and college soccer were important.  But isn’t this model becoming obsolete considering how our U20’s and U17’s got the brakes beat off of them in recent International tournaments?  Is what is happening at the U20 and U17 level indicative of our future if High School and college continue to be advocated because of it’s past success in an era where other nations were too sexist to invest in the women’s game?
> Can someone please help me out with a more nuanced examples of community/social benefits of the High School soccer issue, because I just don’t get it.  Isn’t club soccer socially beneficial and can’t friends, family, and community support a player at their club games too?  What makes High School soccer so special, community oriented, and socially beneficial?
> Wouldn’t a 2 semester college soccer season resolve most of the above issues?



To the first question, Our U20's and U17's got the breaks beat off them....  Do not put to much credence into this.  At the Man City Cup our boys academies are beating Euro Academies at times at the U14 age.  Dig deeper and the soccer is different.  America is playing to win at that age and the Euro's are playing to develop (play the way you face, 1 and 2 touch, achieve the 2v1 solution and attack).  Our u20 men's killed it at the Youth World Cup in Poland this year making quarters and yet we don't qualify at the true World Cup.  Point being is development is different so the YNT teams are great but not a benchmark; at least in my opinion.  
Club v. High School.   Lose and do not get out of your pool at Surf, Blues, big name tournament and what do you do?  You pack up and head home.   Talk a little soccer and train.  You lose a playoff game to your rival and you will feel the difference even as a parent.  Differing sense of pride and most of all different passion.  You represent your student body, your High School.  Believe or not is still matters and that letter jacket still matters to many.   I didn't want my child to play high school.  He did anyway.  In the regional match against a rival and top seed, there were about 400kids cramming a sideline and behind my keeper son on the touchline.  Some yelling for him and some yelling things at him that I was shocked to hear.  In a tight match the boys on the field played harder than you see at most Surf finals.  It was intense, kids chanting my son's name and when that whistle went off and the students ran on the field it was their World Cup for that day.  You don't get that from club.  Do I think it will have an affect on my son and his personal development.  Yes.  Am I glad he plays HS.  Heck yes it is fun for us to watch too.  It is different than Club for sure.[/QUOTE]

Really well-stated.

Also, the word "obsolete" in the post to which you are responding strikes me as odd.  How can it be obsolete when MOST kids don't play college and fewer of those kids get called into camp (or have a hope to be called in)?  Should we be limiting our kids' opportunities for growth, social connection, involvement with community any more than we already did?  Because our U17s and U20s did not advance?  I go back to . . . HS may be de-emphasized in pretty much every sport in terms of a vehicle for college or national team recruitment but do the elite-elite kids REALLY lose that much by playing for 3 or 4 months?  I mean, if they are that good, how can they lose that much.  But what do they gain?  For some, it is negligible and they should do something else in the break.  For others?  It is hugely important.

My kid has represented the US in a foreign country in front of thousands of people.  It was an experience to remember forever and I think she'd easily put it on the top of all her soccer experiences to date.  But she also loves representing her school for all the reasons @vegasguy just wrote.  In the end, the kid she is and the woman she becomes will be framed by all of it.


----------



## vegasguy

Mullet said:


> That is all true NOW but that is not where the game will be in Europe in ten years.
> 
> Sports like Baseball, Hockey, Tennis and Golf all do fine providing a pathway where college is not necessary even though it is still available. Certainly LeBron and Kobe did just fine without college as well, and Kobe played a lot of BB and soccer in Spain too.



LeBron and Kobe did fine as they are Spotted Unicorns and were surrounded by players who at most attended two years of college based on the rules at that time.  Also, if they failed they were given a financial head start.  There is very little if any financial head start in women's soccer and I am sorry I don't see the proof that this will change in 10yrs.  I think USWNT and MNT will be equally paid (at least they should be) or a closer gap but I do not see FIFA Changing dramatically as sad as that sounds.   Many baseball players chose college and still make the pro's too.   See Max Sherzer (sp)


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mullet said:


> Our USWNT's are currently successful because the lure of playing in college, thanks to Title 9, makes the youth game so driven and competitive. We simply have more girls playing and playing at higher levels than our European counterparts had previously.
> 
> BUUUUT that lead is coming to an end as European pro clubs are investing in the women's game and they are using the same training models and academy systems that have worked for the men for years. The benefits of college and high school soccer have not revealed themselves on the international stage on the men's side and the women's game may follow suit within a generation.
> 
> What does that have to the Girls High School Soccer? Not much other than the notion that HS soccer is developmental is going to look quaint in due time. Yes there are benefits to high school but they all seem to sound the same as the benefits of rec soccer. It is fun, social status in school. I played High School sports
> 
> 
> 
> The issue with High school soccer really is about volume and over-training. A kid is not going to suddenly forget how to play soccer because they spend a couple months playing HS but they are significantly increasing their risk of injury due to over training. A ECNL schedule plus HS can lead to 40 games in a 6 month span. That along with the number of practices is frankly diminishing returns.
> 
> As far as our "system" with college compared to Europe in time it will look about the same as the men's side compared to Europe.
> 
> Title 9 and the financial college benefits make soccer a prime youth sport target for girls. This means we do have leagues like ECNL and GDA where the most driven parents/kids can get pretty high level training at younger ages. It is a lead on Europe that we have capitalized on. The desire to play in college for some financial benefit is the real driver of our youth system on the girls side. High School is just kinda in the way of some of that and really contributes nothing to the player pool. The college hook through club is what has made the difference.
> 
> That said, our lead will not last as the European academies are seriously investing in the women's game. The Dutch will even play co-ed until 19 if necessary. They also didn't play in their first major tournament until 2009 and ten years later they reached the finals in the World Cup. Title 9 will always give us a deep player pool but where we will fall behind Europe is the quality and the PROFESSIONAL training during those college years. As women's professional leagues grow in Europe and the major big clubs keep investing their women will be playing and training as professionals while we will have student athletes.
> 
> Other examples of where our college approach has failed on the international stage, Basketball (We sent the Dream Team to restore order after our men's team lost in the previous Olympics), Hockey (Miracle On Ice not withstanding). We need a strong professional league that can pay our top women's players and allow them go directly pro and bypass the college game altogether.
> 
> And as far as the European players coming here to play in college they are not sending their best. This has been the case on the men's side for some time. These European players essentially washed out of the pro academies and are cashing their soccer in for an education here. They are not coming here to become soccer players. This will also be more of a phenomena on the women's side as the pro game grows in Europe.
> 
> We have a huge player pool thanks to Title 9 but without a strong and economically viable pro league our development will stagnate during the college years in comparison to Europe.


I agree with some of what you said and disagree with some.  We fell behind Europe in basketball on the international stage simply because we were send kids that were significantly younger than the seasoned European and South American teams that they were playing.  Our top players were forgoing their amateur status quickly due to the financial incentives that the NBA offered.  Same goes for hockey.  The best American players due to the financial incentive of professional sports simply weren't playing.  You also are neglecting to mention that a significant amount of other nations (Canada, Sweden, Norway and Russia to name a few) were already heavily invested in hockey as were many of those other countries already heavily invested in basketball (it is the 2nd most popular sport on the continent FYI).

On the women's side until the game is truly financially viable (it isn't very profitable in ANY league in the world) there won't be the same financial incentives to drive the pro game.  The player pools in these countries is not very vast unlike on the men's side.  Our numbers and our semi-pro league (NCAA D1) is better than all but the top few teams in each league other than in England where most of teams have top facilities).  If you did a little more research on it you will see that those leagues are top heavy and many of the bottom teams pay very little or are essentially Pro-AM teams.  Pretty much any US player that played D1 and was decent can catch on in Europe.  Why would that be the case if the training was so shitty?  My daughter's team played what amounted to a mixture of U18-U23 national team players from a bunch of countries recently and they didn't even have their complete roster, heck many colleges had players that played in the World Cup.

I used to think that Europe had caught us but this cycle showed that our talent pool is currently too deep and getting deeper and more technical and a decent coach won't have a problem keeping us in the top 2-3.  Maybe Pia was just a bad coach or we would be sitting on 3 straight World Cup titles.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## dk_b

vegasguy said:


> LeBron and Kobe did fine as they are Spotted Unicorns and were surrounded by players who at most attended two years of college based on the rules at that time.  Also, if they failed they were given a financial head start.  There is very little if any financial head start in women's soccer and I am sorry I don't see the proof that this will change in 10yrs.  I think USWNT and MNT will be equally paid (at least they should be) or a closer gap but I do not see FIFA Changing dramatically as sad as that sounds.   Many baseball players chose college and still make the pro's too.   See Max Sherzer (sp)


Hockey and baseball have well-developed minor league systems.  And, still, I'd question whether those sports "do fine" except at the very top levels.  What about the kid who gets drafted out of HS, goes pro and washes out?  You know . . . like the vast, vast majority of pro ballplayers (currently, there are 40 rounds of the draft and 30 teams; that's up to 1,200 drafted every year.  Then there are the international players no subject to the draft.  There are also 1,200 on the 30 teams' "40 man rosters" (25 from the active roster + 15 minor league players).  MOST do not make the top level (most don't even make AAA).

@Mullet also mentioned golf and tennis.  Again, at the top levels - the players that casual observers like me hear about - they may make a great living.  And, in a sense, if people are watching, the sports "do fine".  But do the athletes?  I'd question that all the pros in golf and tennis who had the opportunity to play in college but went pro instead - even a fraction of those pros - would not have benefitted from a subsidized education, joining the pro ranks later and/or turning their education into something else.

We run the risk of turning anecdote - Push, Horan, Moultrie - into trends or into representatives of the whole.  Soon we will have a big group of soccer NT players who did not play HS but will that really be evidence that HS is bad for soccer development?  I mean, if US Soccer is focusing on DA (as it is), the resulting sample is not really indicative of anything other than a clear policy for recruitment.  The current senior players - and college age players in the older YNT teams - are likely more representative because they had choice.  And most chose - overwhelmingly to play HS.


----------



## Mullet

vegasguy said:


> LeBron and Kobe did fine as they are Spotted Unicorns and were surrounded by players who at most attended two years of college based on the rules at that time.  Also, if they failed they were given a financial head start.  There is very little if any financial head start in women's soccer and I am sorry I don't see the proof that this will change in 10yrs.  I think USWNT and MNT will be equally paid (at least they should be) or a closer gap but I do not see FIFA Changing dramatically as sad as that sounds.   Many baseball players chose college and still make the pro's too.   See Max Sherzer (sp)


The head start for us is Title 9. 

The path to many pro sports both in the US and around the World do not always include college. The path to professional soccer in Europe does not include college. Within a very short period of time the women's game in Europe will model the men's professional academy system. If their leagues grow at a rate faster than our weak 9 team league does they will surpass our college development model.

The NHL has multiple pathways but choosing a professional path at a younger age yields greater success than the college path does. Baseball is also similar. Working ones way up though the minors yields greater development success than the college game allows. To think that a system based on 4 years of college for soccer will be able to match a professional academy system is putting ones head in the sand.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mullet said:


> The head start for us is Title 9.
> 
> The path to many pro sports both in the US and around the World do not always include college. The path to professional soccer in Europe does not include college. Within a very short period of time the women's game in Europe will model the men's professional academy system. If their leagues grow at a rate faster than our weak 9 team league does they will surpass our college development model.
> 
> The NHL has multiple pathways but choosing a professional path at a younger age yields greater success than the college path does. Baseball is also similar. Working ones way up though the minors yields greater development success than the college game allows. To think that a system based on 4 years of college for soccer will be able to match a professional academy system is putting ones head in the sand.



Input limits potential output.  The foreign academies do not have similar levels of players on the women's side and that has not changed in the equation.  Statistically speaking there is no significant difference in professional baseball or hockey careers in our pro leagues between straight to the pros players and players that played any amount of college time if you remove the foreign born players.

The NWSL is not the chief development vehicle for the US in the 18-23 age range the NCAA is.  Not to mention that US players can easily get on top flight professional European teams due to their lack of sufficient high end talent.  You do remember that the North Carolina Courage won the ICC last year over Lyon right?


----------



## Mullet

dk_b said:


> Hockey and baseball have well-developed minor league systems.  And, still, I'd question whether those sports "do fine" except at the very top levels.  What about the kid who gets drafted out of HS, goes pro and washes out?  You know . . . like the vast, vast majority of pro ballplayers (currently, there are 40 rounds of the draft and 30 teams; that's up to 1,200 drafted every year.  Then there are the international players no subject to the draft.  There are also 1,200 on the 30 teams' "40 man rosters" (25 from the active roster + 15 minor league players).  MOST do not make the top level (most don't even make AAA).
> 
> @Mullet also mentioned golf and tennis.  Again, at the top levels - the players that casual observers like me hear about - they may make a great living.  And, in a sense, if people are watching, the sports "do fine".  But do the athletes?  I'd question that all the pros in golf and tennis who had the opportunity to play in college but went pro instead - even a fraction of those pros - would not have benefitted from a subsidized education, joining the pro ranks later and/or turning their education into something else.
> 
> We run the risk of turning anecdote - Push, Horan, Moultrie - into trends or into representatives of the whole.  Soon we will have a big group of soccer NT players who did not play HS but will that really be evidence that HS is bad for soccer development?  I mean, if US Soccer is focusing on DA (as it is), the resulting sample is not really indicative of anything other than a clear policy for recruitment.  The current senior players - and college age players in the older YNT teams - are likely more representative because they had choice.  And most chose - overwhelmingly to play HS.


The reality is Women's World Cup is still really a Amateur level tournament. The amount and quality of professional leagues around the world is just developing and hopefully capable of growth. So, in a tournament that is essentially amateurs our college system will remain king. But, for the good of the women's game internationally we should be willing to support multiple, healthy and viable professionals leagues here and abroad.


----------



## vegasguy

UNLV Women's team played Argentina's World Cup Women's team in April for a Spring Game and a WWC tune up match for Argentina.   UNLV (many played high school) won 1-0.   Argentina went on to tie Scotland and Japan and lose to England 1 to 0.  I think Utah Valley also beat Argentina.  The Rebels did not make the Women's College Cup this year.   So is our way working out ok for the women?


----------



## vegasguy

Mullet said:


> But, for the good of the women's game internationally we should be willing to support multiple, healthy and viable professionals leagues here and abroad.



Substitute _US Men and MLS  _for women's and _domestically _for abroad and you have the US Men's argument for the last 20+ years.  We as a soccer country are different and are a different as men and women development.  It is ok to be different.  There are a multiple ways to develop quality world class players.  We need to embrace that instead of a "program".


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mullet said:


> The reality is Women's World Cup is still really a Amateur level tournament. The amount and quality of professional leagues around the world is just developing and hopefully capable of growth. So, in a tournament that is essentially amateurs our college system will remain king. But, for the good of the women's game internationally we should be willing to support multiple, healthy and viable professionals leagues here and abroad.


I agree with you.  My player will most likely be playing in England come December so I hear you.  She isn't exactly enamored with the NWSL unless she was guaranteed to play for Portland or North Carolina.  Our domestic league has a way to go in terms of facilities and pay.  I wish that US Soccer would invest some of their war chest on paying the ladies better and subsidizing some investments in facilities.  That in my opinion would be money better spent than giving bigger guaranteed salaries to a small group of players (many of whom have endorsements too) while the rest of the players live off of peanuts because they truly love the game and want to play as long as they are able.


----------



## espola

dk_b said:


> Hockey and baseball have well-developed minor league systems.  And, still, I'd question whether those sports "do fine" except at the very top levels.  What about the kid who gets drafted out of HS, goes pro and washes out?  You know . . . like the vast, vast majority of pro ballplayers (currently, there are 40 rounds of the draft and 30 teams; that's up to 1,200 drafted every year.  Then there are the international players no subject to the draft.  There are also 1,200 on the 30 teams' "40 man rosters" (25 from the active roster + 15 minor league players).  MOST do not make the top level (most don't even make AAA).
> 
> @Mullet also mentioned golf and tennis.  Again, at the top levels - the players that casual observers like me hear about - they may make a great living.  And, in a sense, if people are watching, the sports "do fine".  But do the athletes?  I'd question that all the pros in golf and tennis who had the opportunity to play in college but went pro instead - even a fraction of those pros - would not have benefitted from a subsidized education, joining the pro ranks later and/or turning their education into something else.
> 
> We run the risk of turning anecdote - Push, Horan, Moultrie - into trends or into representatives of the whole.  Soon we will have a big group of soccer NT players who did not play HS but will that really be evidence that HS is bad for soccer development?  I mean, if US Soccer is focusing on DA (as it is), the resulting sample is not really indicative of anything other than a clear policy for recruitment.  The current senior players - and college age players in the older YNT teams - are likely more representative because they had choice.  And most chose - overwhelmingly to play HS.


Our family friends who have been strong baseball players cover a wide spectrum.  My high school buddy (he had a car and we were dating sisters) got a free trip to Florida for half of spring training and was driving a cab the last time I saw him.  Some of my kids' classmates got college scholarships and/or signing bonuses and a couple are still active players.  Baseball and basketball (and hockey too if you live where that can be played outdoors) have the funding available to winnow out thousands of players to find the one or two who will play at the highest level.  Soccer as currently instituted in the USA does not.


----------



## dk_b

Mullet said:


> The reality is Women's World Cup is still really a Amateur level tournament. The amount and quality of professional leagues around the world is just developing and hopefully capable of growth. So, in a tournament that is essentially amateurs our college system will remain king. But, for the good of the women's game internationally we should be willing to support multiple, healthy and viable professionals leagues here and abroad.


I don't disagree that growing the game requires that but I am not sure "we should" do any of that - I mean, this is a captive audience of very supportive, dedicated folks.  But still this group is not representative of the vast, vast majority of people out there.  And unless/until there are real economic incentives for multiple, healthy, viable professional leagues, women's soccer will remain the cream at the top but not much more beyond that.  The world is a soccer world but most countries with soccer cultures do not promote girls/women playing soccer like occurs here.  Even where there is a lot of participation at the young ages, much of that drops off when the girls hit puberty. That said, even in the countries where it is flourishing, there is lack of support at the gate, in uniform purchases, in sponsorship opportunities, in broadcast range.  Solve for all of that, there MAY be a jump.  I certainly hope so b/c I do enjoy the game and want it to expand.  But one of the main reasons that the WNBA continues is b/c it has a major benefactor in the NBA - if FIFA really wanted to grow the women's game, it could be that benefactor.  If not FIFA, maybe the European leagues but I think they'd almost need to do it HERE.


----------



## espola

vegasguy said:


> Substitute _US Men and MLS  _for women's and _domestically _for abroad and you have the US Men's argument for the last 20+ years.  We as a soccer country are different and are a different as men and women development.  It is ok to be different.  There are a multiple ways to develop quality world class players.  We need to embrace that instead of a "program".


Not sure what you mean by that.  Isn't there always a "program" of some sort?


----------



## Dubs

dk_b said:


> I'm well aware of that - I was making no judgment on "deserving" and have a lot of strong thoughts that I would not share on this board about precisely this situation (GDA/ECNL/YNT).  My main point is that the end game for nearly all elite-elite players is college soccer because only the tiniest fraction makes a NT and, comparing those two clubs (at least in those age groups), Mustang and Quakes are on par and the Mustang girls had the opportunity to play HS soccer if they wanted (and nearly all did).  Other NorCal DA clubs in those age groups don't have close to the same measurable success in terms of college placement and those girls had no choice about HS soccer (since US Soccer made it for them) and a very, very small # (0 at most of these clubs) have been called into camp.


I wasn't insinuating that you were... more just making the statement myself so nobody thinks I would begrudge any kid that is currently getting an opportunity.  I totally agree regarding your point about college being the end game.  However, for my DD, college is the beginning of the game because she does want to be on the NT and she most likely won't have that opportunity until she hits college because of her ECNL affiliation.  One correction on the college success would be MVLA.  MVLA would have similar if not same success college placement as Quakes and Mustang.


----------



## dk_b

Dubs said:


> I wasn't insinuating that you were... more just making the statement myself so nobody thinks I would begrudge any kid that is currently getting an opportunity.  I totally agree regarding your point about college being the end game.  However, for my DD, college is the beginning of the game because she does want to be on the NT and she most likely won't have that opportunity until she hits college because of her ECNL affiliation.  One correction on the college success would be MVLA.  MVLA would have similar if not same success college placement as Quakes and Mustang.


I was clarifying, not taking issue.  I could see that we were on pretty much the same page.

I was leaving out the MVLA group b/c I don't think the 01 and 02 groups have quite the college placement though it is really good.  However, their very special 04 group will be really impactful.  In fact, some point to that as a big ECNL/GDA/YNT example - they had multiple YNT players at past camps but the most recent one (I think) had zero.  (The discussion of MVLA and Quakes that I like is more soccer-based since, in NorCal, it is hard to find better teachers of the game than Albertin and Andres)


----------



## MakeAPlay

espola said:


> If the European countries ever get serious about women's soccer they will set up women's leagues better than NCAA D1, since they will not be worried about little things like getting passing grades in difficult subjects or finding funding for scholarships.


Where will they get the players from?  Some of these countries are small and we are talking a peak age range of 18-32.  If you add up all of the top teams in all of the leagues in Europe you might have 40 teams maybe 50 and many of those players will be American.  That still isn't anywhere close to the sheer numbers that even NCAA D1 has (320+ teams).  Not to mention that the University of Arkansas women's team, for example, spends more than your typical pro team even has in it's budget.  

I hope that they get serious about further growing the women's game so that it becomes economically viable, however, if Boris Johnson looking like he might come to power indicates anything then Europe is going backwards not forward.


----------



## Mullet

MakeAPlay said:


> Input limits potential output.  The foreign academies do not have similar levels of players on the women's side and that has not changed in the equation.  Statistically speaking there is no significant difference in professional baseball or hockey careers in our pro leagues between straight to the pros players and players that played any amount of college time if you remove the foreign born players.
> 
> The NWSL is not the chief development vehicle for the US in the 18-23 age range the NCAA is.  Not to mention that US players can easily get on top flight professional European teams due to their lack of sufficient high end talent.  You do remember that the North Carolina Courage won the ICC last year over Lyon right?





dk_b said:


> Hockey and baseball have well-developed minor league systems.  And, still, I'd question whether those sports "do fine" except at the very top levels.  What about the kid who gets drafted out of HS, goes pro and washes out?  You know . . . like the vast, vast majority of pro ballplayers (currently, there are 40 rounds of the draft and 30 teams; that's up to 1,200 drafted every year.  Then there are the international players no subject to the draft.  There are also 1,200 on the 30 teams' "40 man rosters" (25 from the active roster + 15 minor league players).  MOST do not make the top level (most don't even make AAA).
> 
> @Mullet also mentioned golf and tennis.  Again, at the top levels - the players that casual observers like me hear about - they may make a great living.  And, in a sense, if people are watching, the sports "do fine".  But do the athletes?  I'd question that all the pros in golf and tennis who had the opportunity to play in college but went pro instead - even a fraction of those pros - would not have benefitted from a subsidized education, joining the pro ranks later and/or turning their education into something else.
> 
> We run the risk of turning anecdote - Push, Horan, Moultrie - into trends or into representatives of the whole.  Soon we will have a big group of soccer NT players who did not play HS but will that really be evidence that HS is bad for soccer development?  I mean, if US Soccer is focusing on DA (as it is), the resulting sample is not really indicative of anything other than a clear policy for recruitment.  The current senior players - and college age players in the older YNT teams - are likely more representative because they had choice.  And most chose - overwhelmingly to play HS.


The women on the current USWNT could have chosen to play Chess in high school instead of soccer and they still would have won the World Cup. In a amateur tournament we have the worlds best amateur development model with college. But how long will the Women's World cup remain a amateur tournament as professional leagues develop?

There were no youth leagues for girls in the UK until 1970. Other nations were also slow to allow girls to even play the game. The girls youth game in Europe is really only starting to grow and as I stated earlier, the Dutch women's team played in their first international tournament in 2009. To go from just entering a tournament to World Cup finalist in just ten years should open some eyes.


----------



## timbuck

For the womens game in Europe-  If the Euro clubs are paying better than NWSL -  then for a while, you'll see lots of American women playing there.  A pro league doesn't care where you were born.  (Look at MLS - they have homegrown player advantages for teams -  But all of the superstars are from other countries).


----------



## dk_b

My kid is at Gothia Cup this week (played last year as well) and can see the growth of the youth game by the club teams from around the world attending the event.  But the investment at the younger ages AND the reframing of team sports for girls/young women is much greater than a 10 year project.  Until then, there will be countries making strides but it needs to be way broader.


----------



## dk_b

timbuck said:


> For the womens game in Europe-  If the Euro clubs are paying better than NWSL -  then for a while, you'll see lots of American women playing there.  A pro league doesn't care where you were born.  (Look at MLS - they have homegrown player advantages for teams -  But all of the superstars are from other countries).


But is that sufficient to grow at the base (youth) levels?  In some countries that requires a cultural shift - not that they don’t support women’s athletics but that they support the opportunities for ANY 5 year old, 10 year old, 12 year old girl to play (not just the identified athletic ones). We have a developed sports culture here and for decades it has included girls. Other countries have a “soccer culture” but those are not the same thing. I’d love to see evidence that team sports participation rates in other countries are similar to ours. Title IX was - and continues to be - an amazingly powerful force. Are there similar laws elsewhere or do things need to happen organically?  These issues are not simple - not to my tiny brain anyway.


----------



## espola

dk_b said:


> My kid is at Gothia Cup this week (played last year as well) and can see the growth of the youth game by the club teams from around the world attending the event.  But the investment at the younger ages AND the reframing of team sports for girls/young women is much greater than a 10 year project.  Until then, there will be countries making strides but it needs to be way broader.


The USA has the population and the resources to support a dozen or more youth teams (both for boys and girls) that would be competitive in international play.  We just have to find the WILL.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mullet said:


> The women on the current USWNT could have chosen to play Chess in high school instead of soccer and they still would have won the World Cup. In a amateur tournament we have the worlds best amateur development model with college. But how long will the Women's World cup remain a amateur tournament as professional leagues develop?
> 
> There were no youth leagues for girls in the UK until 1970. Other nations were also slow to allow girls to even play the game. The girls youth game in Europe is really only starting to grow and as I stated earlier, the Dutch women's team played in their first international tournament in 2009. To go from just entering a tournament to World Cup finalist in just ten years should open some eyes.



Again I don't disagree with you.  You still have to consider what financial commitment are the European countries going to make AND where are they going to get the players.  We are talking about an age range of 18-32+ and in order to at least be the equals of our girls they are going to have to be in an organized system since about 10 years of age.  Think about it, our girls that are playing college on average have been playing club soccer for 6-10 years prior to getting to college.  One of the main reasons that so many European teenagers are Pro-Am players in their top leagues is because of the dearth of sufficiently developed players.  It is just a numbers game.  One of my daughter's teammates has been playing on her countries full national team since she was 15.  That simply is no longer possible in the US due to the size of the player pool.  Once, decades ago you could have a Mia Hamm playing with the US WNT at the age of 14/15.  That simply isn't the case due to where we are in our soccer development on the women's side as a country.  Heck England's starting GK is a SoCal girl born and raised who went to CS Fullerton!


----------



## vegasguy

espola said:


> Not sure what you mean by that.  Isn't there always a "program" of some sort?



In an article about DA v. ECNL, USSoccer called DA a "program" and ECNL a league.   Yes they are all programs but in the end they are also leagues.


----------



## Mullet

MakeAPlay said:


> Again I don't disagree with you.  You still have to consider what financial commitment are the European countries going to make AND where are they going to get the players.  We are talking about an age range of 18-32+ and in order to at least be the equals of our girls they are going to have to be in an organized system since about 10 years of age.  Think about it, our girls that are playing college on average have been playing club soccer for 6-10 years prior to getting to college.  One of the main reasons that so many European teenagers are Pro-Am players in their top leagues is because of the dearth of sufficiently developed players.  It is just a numbers game.  One of my daughter's teammates has been playing on her countries full national team since she was 15.  That simply is no longer possible in the US due to the size of the player pool.  Once, decades ago you could have a Mia Hamm playing with the US WNT at the age of 14/15.  That simply isn't the case due to where we are in our soccer development on the women's side as a country.  Heck England's starting GK is a SoCal girl born and raised who went to CS Fullerton!


I think we are talking past each other a bit here.

I'm looking at and talking much further downstream than the current 18-32+ age range. I'm looking at the kids who are truly the next generation in Europe who will have grown up never knowing a lack of women's professional leagues and have watched this world cup. The infrastructure, system, acceptance AND expectations are now being laid by the pro clubs in general.

Also things have happened pretty quickly in short order elswhere. Japan won a world cup 8 years ago, lost in the finals 4 years ago and managed only one win in this years world cup. To go from US rival to escaping group stage to be eliminated in the first knockout game to a ten year startup in Netherlands. And lets not forget that this is only the eighth Women's World Cup. Mia Hamm is not even a grandmother yet so the women's game is still in its infancy internationally.

I believe going forward that European nations will no longer have any trouble developing a large and very competitive player pool that can match ours. Title 9 will always drive high achieving interest in club soccer but the college game will stagnate our development in comparison in the long run. Our over confidence and complacency will dig us a hole we not be able to climb out.


----------



## End of the Line

Mullet said:


> I think we are talking past each other a bit here.
> 
> I'm looking at and talking much further downstream than the current 18-32+ age range. I'm looking at the kids who are truly the next generation in Europe who will have grown up never knowing a lack of women's professional leagues and have watched this world cup. The infrastructure, system, acceptance AND expectations are now being laid by the pro clubs in general.
> 
> Also things have happened pretty quickly in short order elswhere. Japan won a world cup 8 years ago, lost in the finals 4 years ago and managed only one win in this years world cup. To go from US rival to escaping group stage to be eliminated in the first knockout game to a ten year startup in Netherlands. And lets not forget that this is only the eighth Women's World Cup. Mia Hamm is not even a grandmother yet so the women's game is still in its infancy internationally.
> 
> I believe going forward that European nations will no longer have any trouble developing a large and very competitive player pool that can match ours. Title 9 will always drive high achieving interest in club soccer but the college game will stagnate our development in comparison in the long run. Our over confidence and complacency will dig us a hole we not be able to climb out.


People have been saying the same thing for 20 years, yet nothing changes.  Every four years fools like MAP freak out when France beats the U.S. in a friendly that our WNT wasn't even trying to win.  There have always been a handful of countries that can compete with the U.S. in the short term, but they all come and go.  The only constant is that the U.S. always stays at the top of the food chain.  Always.  Why is that?

Sheer volume.  In the U.S., there are good reasons for 16-17 year old girls - and lots of them - to continue playing soccer.  First, it is fun.  Second, there is a legitimate financial reason for a lot of 16-17 year old girls to train and play hard, which is that doing so provides college opportunities that might otherwise not be available.  In every other country in the world, it is virtually always a really dumb idea for a 16-17 year old girl to spend any significant amount of their time playing soccer, let alone giving up everything else and jeopardizing their future in order to play in a soccer academy.  First, training all day every day is no fun.  Second, a European or Japanese girl training hard at 16 so she can play soccer at 21 is the dumbest thing I've ever heard (and any remotely intelligent European or Japanese parent has ever heard) with the exception of maybe one or two players in an entire country, whereas it's a great idea for thousands of girls in the U.S. who are trying to improve their college prospects.  As much as people denigrate college soccer, the U.S. will always have the advantage because of it.  The U.S. will always have the sheer numbers - unless and until USSF "succeeds" with its GDA and, in doing so: (1) drives kids out of the sport in volumes by taking the fun out of it (e.g. the HS ban and relegating millions of youth girls to lower tier leagues due either to geography or the high cost of participation); (2) downplays the only legitimate reason a 17 year old girl should be playing so much soccer (college); and (3) injures the bulk of the talent like it did with the 6 U18 YNT players who played GDA and tore ACLs in a 12 month period.  That last one was just for you.

There will never be enough money in women's soccer to tip the scales, because the sport just isn't that great.  The Netherlands will never maintain a great team long term, nor will France.  They will both fade like Japan, like Germany before Japan, and like China before Germany.  Occasionally, a foreign academy will produce one or two circus jugglers who also happen to be tremendous athletes who can rival or exceed the best the U.S. has to offer.  Sometimes those two plus their middling supporting cast will, on their best day, beat the U.S.  But no one will ever be able to consistently put 11 studs on the field like the U.S., with more in the stable.  It will never happen.  Just like basketball.  Just like softball.


----------



## MakeAPlay

End of the Line said:


> People have been saying the same thing for 20 years, yet nothing changes.  Every four years fools like MAP freak out when France beats the U.S. in a friendly that our WNT wasn't even trying to win.  There have always been a handful of countries that can compete with the U.S. in the short term, but they all come and go.  The only constant is that the U.S. always stays at the top of the food chain.  Always.  Why is that?
> 
> Sheer volume.  In the U.S., there are good reasons for 16-17 year old girls - and lots of them - to continue playing soccer.  First, it is fun.  Second, there is a legitimate financial reason for a lot of 16-17 year old girls to train and play hard, which is that doing so provides college opportunities that might otherwise not be available.  In every other country in the world, it is virtually always a really dumb idea for a 16-17 year old girl to spend any significant amount of their time playing soccer, let alone giving up everything else and jeopardizing their future in order to play in a soccer academy.  First, training all day every day is no fun.  Second, a European or Japanese girl training hard at 16 so she can play soccer at 21 is the dumbest thing I've ever heard (and any remotely intelligent European or Japanese parent has ever heard) with the exception of maybe one or two players in an entire country, whereas it's a great idea for thousands of girls in the U.S. who are trying to improve their college prospects.  As much as people denigrate college soccer, the U.S. will always have the advantage because of it.  The U.S. will always have the sheer numbers - unless and until USSF "succeeds" with its GDA and, in doing so: (1) drives kids out of the sport in volumes by taking the fun out of it (e.g. the HS ban and relegating millions of youth girls to lower tier leagues due either to geography or the high cost of participation); (2) downplays the only legitimate reason a 17 year old girl should be playing so much soccer (college); and (3) injures the bulk of the talent like it did with the 6 U18 YNT players who played GDA and tore ACLs in a 12 month period.  That last one was just for you.
> 
> There will never be enough money in women's soccer to tip the scales, because the sport just isn't that great.  The Netherlands will never maintain a great team long term, nor will France.  They will both fade like Japan, like Germany before Japan, and like China before Germany.  Occasionally, a foreign academy will produce one or two circus jugglers who also happen to be tremendous athletes who can rival or exceed the best the U.S. has to offer.  Sometimes those two plus their middling supporting cast will, on their best day, beat the U.S.  But no one will ever be able to consistently put 11 studs on the field like the U.S., with more in the stable.  It will never happen.  Just like basketball.  Just like softball.



You are just so stupid that you can't get out of your own way.  Even your good points are stupid because of the crybaby victim who is delivering them.  I suggest that you change your screen name.  Too many people don't really care what you have to say because you are a fucking whiner.

Keep whining.  Let's hope that you don't pass it along.


----------



## Dos Equis

vegasguy said:


> In an article about DA v. ECNL, USSoccer called DA a "program" and ECNL a league.   Yes they are all programs but in the end they are also leagues.


The statement summarizes US Soccer's view of ECNL.  In fact, they viewed ECNL even more narrowly than just a "league", but a "college showcase league."  They said that with a full amount of condescension, as if catering to college recruiting and college coaches was incongruous with elite youth soccer.


----------



## End of the Line

MakeAPlay said:


> You are just so stupid that you can't get out of your own way.  Even your good points are stupid because of the crybaby victim who is delivering them.  I suggest that you change your screen name.  Too many people don't really care what you have to say because you are a fucking whiner.
> 
> Keep whining.  Let's hope that you don't pass it along.


Funny, you seem to care quite a lot about what I have to say. 

Speaking of not being able to get out of the way, what happened at your kid's sixth grade graduation?  You might also want to change your screen name.


----------



## oh canada

MakeAPlay said:


> https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/82956/anson-dorrance-on-an-extraordinary-womens-world-c.html
> 
> As usual Anson Dorrance is a good read and has great insight regarding the women's game.


after reading "Warrior Girls", I lost some respect for AD


----------



## offtopic

dk_b said:


> I'm well aware of that - I was making no judgment on "deserving" and have a lot of strong thoughts that I would not share on this board about precisely this situation (GDA/ECNL/YNT).  My main point is that the end game for nearly all elite-elite players is college soccer because only the tiniest fraction makes a NT and, comparing those two clubs (at least in those age groups), Mustang and Quakes are on par and the Mustang girls had the opportunity to play HS soccer if they wanted (and nearly all did).  Other NorCal DA clubs in those age groups don't have close to the same measurable success in terms of college placement and those girls had no choice about HS soccer (since US Soccer made it for them) and a very, very small # (0 at most of these clubs) have been called into camp.


We do have to be a little careful about drawing conclusions about the implementation of DA by the first two years. Just changing league badges doesn't automatically mean things fall into place right away and can be used as a predictor for how things will be the future. IIRC, the boy's DA program was considered dead two years in and they didn't have even have an ECNL equivalent. Mustang girls didn't have huge college placement success the years right prior to 01/02 (yes those two years are really, really strong) and the Quakes weren't even on the map yet as Deza had to drag his best players with him from Griffins to Force and then again to Earthquakes in order to create his 02-04 power groupings (which are extremely impressive). Prior to 01/02 I believe Force, Lamorinda and MVLA had significantly more recruiting success (all with YNT field player placements, Gothia success, Surf Cup Super Black titles, #1 state/national rankings, elite college placements). These things go in cycles (I know the younger Mustang teams are good as well but they are not on the level of the 01s/02s at this point. The Quakes have extremely strong younger teams and the infrastructure and developmental vision to maintain this as long as Deza is given power) so it will be a bit of a wait and see as to what will happen as things do eventually fall into place. 

While I do hear you that at this very specific point in time it doesn't make much of a difference which league a player is in for college purposes and it is great that the ECNL kids get to choose, that could change as things evolve - especially if non-DA players are edged off YNTs and maybe even pushed away from NTC opportunities in the near future (geographic limitations not withstanding, US Soccer could just say "hey we think you have potential but you need to go join a DA team for us to take this any further"). In theory, DA will produce better players if they have similar talent as those players are getting 2-3 months more of development per year for four years. Maybe this doesn't effect the very best but what about those who aren't? How will college coaches view this developmental difference? I have honestly have no idea. There are still some non-DA boys getting offers and there are fewer of those scholarships to go around. Honestly the biggest losers in this 'feud' to me is that NPL kids aren't going to get much of a chance at all. College coaches just don't have the bandwidth to go see those kids play and they won't know what they are watching when they see it. It used to be the plenty of NPL kids were given college spots but now those showcases (and teams) are just going to be overlooked as the college coaches go straight for the ECNL/DA brackets.


----------



## timbuck

If DA wants to squash ecnl-  they can do one of 3 things:
1.  Allow high school
2.  Fully fund girls DA
3. Pay DA coaches a US soccer stipend in addition to their current pay.  Then you’ll have the guys/girls coaching top ECNL programs fighting for DA jobs.


----------



## dk_b

This is why it would be so much better to discuss these topics over beverages ... @offtopic - I completely agree with the cyclical nature of all of this. I used those two clubs simply because they are the initial grouping of GDA v ECNL (and those Quakes teams were ECNL DeAnza Force the season prior).  But your depth is something I can get behind and I wish we could knock it around over a beer or coffee or some other cool beverage.


----------



## dk_b

dk_b said:


> This is why it would be so much better to discuss these topics over beverages ... @offtopic - I completely agree with the cyclical nature of all of this. I used those two clubs simply because they are the initial grouping of GDA v ECNL (and those Quakes teams were ECNL DeAnza Force the season prior).  But your depth is something I can get behind and I wish we could knock it around over a beer or coffee or some other cool beverage.


I forgot to add, @offtopic , that your comment re NPL is important. My other kids will prob remain NPL for various reasons. It means a much more challenging road if they want to get “seen”. I can think of a couple of notables from the Bay Area - including the daughter of a commenter on this board - who are D1 contributors and played NPL. If my other kids are good enough, they will try to follow their paths.


----------



## Dubs

vegasguy said:


> In an article about DA v. ECNL, USSoccer called DA a "program" and ECNL a league.   Yes they are all programs but in the end they are also leagues.


Again, that statement is really dumb by US Soccer.  The DA is not a program and nor is ECNL.  They are leagues and the clubs themselves have the programs that they run based on their own philosophies.  US Soccer may come in and have demands about some of the curriculum, but make no mistake...The clubs will do what the clubs want/need in order to keep things afloat and attractive to would be players.


----------



## Mullet

Dubs said:


> Again, that statement is really dumb by US Soccer.  The DA is not a program and nor is ECNL.  They are leagues and the clubs themselves have the programs that they run based on their own philosophies.  US Soccer may come in and have demands about some of the curriculum, but make no mistake...The clubs will do what the clubs want/need in order to keep things afloat and attractive to would be players.


The DA is theoretically different because they can have more direct control of players on the YNT radar. For example, if US Soccer wants a kid to transition to CB from outside back they can dictate that to the club.


----------



## vegasguy

They can dictate it but implementing it week in and week out may not be followed as their is not oversight at every training and every match.  
Also, it is a league and many coaches are still more about the win than the development.  Otherwise you would not see game reports where a player did not get a single minute of play in 4 games in the National Playoffs.


----------



## vegasguy

the boy's DA program was considered dead two years in and they didn't have even have an ECNL equivalent.


Now this is just a boys rumor but it has been noted that many of the MLS clubs are growing tired of playing and traveling to non-MLS teams and want to pull from DA and work with the USL in emerging league on a more regional basis.  Especially at the u16/17 !,# u18/19 age groups.  If that occurs boys DA is again just a league.  Still rumor but it is there. 

I have also heard coaches from major college cup contenders say that they look outside the DA many times because their system does not fit the DA philosophy for certain positions or tactical shapes and they are finding that some players are set in roles and styles (4 4 2) and aren't as flexible in other formation.  DA does not guarantee D1 but it will get you observed by them.  
If DA is only in place for YNT opportunities they should limit their team pool and fund it fully.  That is investment.  Not adding more and watering it down for money.


----------



## espola

vegasguy said:


> the boy's DA program was considered dead two years in and they didn't have even have an ECNL equivalent.
> 
> 
> Now this is just a boys rumor but it has been noted that many of the MLS clubs are growing tired of playing and traveling to non-MLS teams and want to pull from DA and work with the USL in emerging league on a more regional basis.  Especially at the u16/17 !,# u18/19 age groups.  If that occurs boys DA is again just a league.  Still rumor but it is there.
> 
> I have also heard coaches from major college cup contenders say that they look outside the DA many times because their system does not fit the DA philosophy for certain positions or tactical shapes and they are finding that some players are set in roles and styles (4 4 2) and aren't as flexible in other formation.  DA does not guarantee D1 but it will get you observed by them.
> If DA is only in place for YNT opportunities they should limit their team pool and fund it fully.  That is investment.  Not adding more and watering it down for money.


Most minor league baseball teams are controlled by MLB teams, so the big boys can dictate how a player will be positioned (playing time to convert an outfielder to first baseman, for example) and how often he will play (that applies to pitchers mostly).  I hadn't heard that there is a similar rigid control from USSF to the individual DA teams, but it is certainly a rational way to run things.


----------



## Mullet

vegasguy said:


> the boy's DA program was considered dead two years in and they didn't have even have an ECNL equivalent.
> 
> 
> Now this is just a boys rumor but it has been noted that many of the MLS clubs are growing tired of playing and traveling to non-MLS teams and want to pull from DA and work with the USL in emerging league on a more regional basis.  Especially at the u16/17 !,# u18/19 age groups.  If that occurs boys DA is again just a league.  Still rumor but it is there.
> 
> I have also heard coaches from major college cup contenders say that they look outside the DA many times because their system does not fit the DA philosophy for certain positions or tactical shapes and they are finding that some players are set in roles and styles (4 4 2) and aren't as flexible in other formation.  DA does not guarantee D1 but it will get you observed by them.
> If DA is only in place for YNT opportunities they should limit their team pool and fund it fully.  That is investment.  Not adding more and watering it down for money.


This actually is a demonstration of the positive evolution of the game here. Pro clubs should have more control of their player development and MLS should be in the business of developing their own minor league system. One of the purposes of DA was to have as many of the players under one roof as it were for scouting and tracking purposes and that can still be accomplished with a MLS system as well as a DA. 

For younger ages DA still makes sense for MLS clubs to participate in if only to limit the travel but as the kids hit U16/17 then more MLS control the better.


----------



## Mullet

vegasguy said:


> They can dictate it but implementing it week in and week out may not be followed as their is not oversight at every training and every match.
> Also, it is a league and many coaches are still more about the win than the development.  Otherwise you would not see game reports where a player did not get a single minute of play in 4 games in the National Playoffs.


Agree. Your point is simply a missed opportunity by US Soccer. Week to week is what they should be striving for. In fact the regional NTC's should be run more like ODP is, once a week. A regions best players should be training together if not once a week at least once every two weeks.


----------



## espola

Mullet said:


> Agree. Your point is simply a missed opportunity by US Soccer. Week to week is what they should be striving for. In fact the regional NTC's should be run more like ODP is, once a week. A regions best players should be training together if not once a week at least once every two weeks.


Who is going to pay for all that travel?


----------



## Soccer43

I believe the poster was referring to the regional NTC’s that are local and players could participate in the one that is close enough geographically to attend weekly


----------



## espola

Soccer43 said:


> I believe the poster was referring to the regional NTC’s that are local and players could participate in the one that is close enough geographically to attend weekly


I guess that depends on what you mean by "regional".


----------



## Mullet

MakeAPlay said:


> Where will they get the players from?  Some of these countries are small and we are talking a peak age range of 18-32.  If you add up all of the top teams in all of the leagues in Europe you might have 40 teams maybe 50 and many of those players will be American.  That still isn't anywhere close to the sheer numbers that even NCAA D1 has (320+ teams).  Not to mention that the University of Arkansas women's team, for example, spends more than your typical pro team even has in it's budget.
> 
> I hope that they get serious about further growing the women's game so that it becomes economically viable, however, if Boris Johnson looking like he might come to power indicates anything then Europe is going backwards not forward.



Currently there are at least 14 professional women's soccer leagues in Europe, six of which participate in UEFA. 

The Spanish Women's Liga alone has 16 clubs. For the interest of time lets just say that the other leagues have 10 teams. That is at least 106 professional women's teams in Europe of which at least 66 teams are competing for UEFA bragging rights. 

The US has over 300 D1 soccer programs alone. That is huge and we haven't even touched upon D2 and D3 programs. But of those 300 programs only 64 will qualify for the NCAA playoffs. Of those 64 that qualify for the playoffs there are really only ten schools that have a legitimate shot at winning. So roughly 25 D1 programs are not only both really really good, but really consistent over time as well. While we have huge collegiate system most of our USWNT players are coming out of only about 25 regular consistent programs. 

D1 soccer is a fall sport while Spain's liga-femenina-iberdrola is a 10 month, 32 game season which can include Champions League and other UEFA tourneys. Assuming growth in the youth game in Europe, I just don't see how our top 25 college programs over the next 10-20 years will be able to keep up with Spain alone not to mention France, UK and other nations. In time one or two of the European leagues will also rise to prominence and concentrating the talent even more while smaller national leagues will become stepping stone leagues just like the men's side. 

And do we honestly believe that in 10-20 years youth clubs like PDA will out produce La Masia not to mention the Spanish clubs that are trying to develop kids to get into La Masia?


----------



## Mullet

Soccer43 said:


> I believe the poster was referring to the regional NTC’s that are local and players could participate in the one that is close enough geographically to attend weekly


I was referring to the more "local" NTC's. Not the larger regional ones.

What is the point of claiming to be an "Academy" if you don't actually have a pool of players regularly training together?


----------



## espola

Mullet said:


> I was referring to the more "local" NTC's. Not the larger regional ones.
> 
> What is the point of claiming to be an "Academy" if you don't actually have a pool of players regularly training together?


Many clubs are still using the term "academy" to refer to certain teams, camps, or training programs just like they were before the USSF DA program was created over 1o  years ago.


----------



## Mullet

espola said:


> Many clubs are still using the term "academy" to refer to certain teams, camps, or training programs just like they were before the USSF DA program was created over 1o  years ago.


Oh, absolutely agree that it is a nice buzzy and marketable term. But in this case if US Soccer wants to claim that it is in fact a program and not just a league they need to implement "Academy" as much as they really can. And one of the ways they can is to have more local NTC's on a regular basis where a metro regions best 25 kids or so for each age group train together regularly. 

Currently the NTC's are mostly used just for basic deeper scouting purposes but they could be so much more.


----------



## vegasguy

Mullet said:


> Oh, absolutely agree that it is a nice buzzy and marketable term. But in this case if US Soccer wants to claim that it is in fact a program and not just a league they need to implement "Academy" as much as they really can. And one of the ways they can is to have more local NTC's on a regular basis where a metro regions best 25 kids or so for each age group train together regularly.
> 
> Currently the NTC's are mostly used just for basic deeper scouting purposes but they could be so much more.


US Soccer would advise the clubs to be a true academy moving players up and down within their individual for development instead of straight out recruiting which is what a number clubs (not just DA but ...) do.  With that said loyalty would need be given by the parent as well and we know that many parents are well intended but club hop like the Easter Bunny.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mullet said:


> Currently there are at least 14 professional women's soccer leagues in Europe, six of which participate in UEFA.
> 
> The Spanish Women's Liga alone has 16 clubs. For the interest of time lets just say that the other leagues have 10 teams. That is at least 106 professional women's teams in Europe of which at least 66 teams are competing for UEFA bragging rights.
> 
> The US has over 300 D1 soccer programs alone. That is huge and we haven't even touched upon D2 and D3 programs. But of those 300 programs only 64 will qualify for the NCAA playoffs. Of those 64 that qualify for the playoffs there are really only ten schools that have a legitimate shot at winning. So roughly 25 D1 programs are not only both really really good, but really consistent over time as well. While we have huge collegiate system most of our USWNT players are coming out of only about 25 regular consistent programs.
> 
> D1 soccer is a fall sport while Spain's liga-femenina-iberdrola is a 10 month, 32 game season which can include Champions League and other UEFA tourneys. Assuming growth in the youth game in Europe, I just don't see how our top 25 college programs over the next 10-20 years will be able to keep up with Spain alone not to mention France, UK and other nations. In time one or two of the European leagues will also rise to prominence and concentrating the talent even more while smaller national leagues will become stepping stone leagues just like the men's side.
> 
> And do we honestly believe that in 10-20 years youth clubs like PDA will out produce La Masia not to mention the Spanish clubs that are trying to develop kids to get into La Masia?


I am not arguing with your numbers, they are in the wheelhouse.  And I agree that most WNT players come from a small number of college programs.  You also have to realize that those leagues also are top heavy and don't nearly have the quality of teams top to bottom that are near the top of D1.  Maybe with more money they will get better but as has already been proven on the men's side of UEFA, the top teams have many players from Africa, South America and beyond and aren't simply composed of homegrown talent.

I love the debate and look forward to your reply.


----------



## Mullet

MakeAPlay said:


> I am not arguing with your numbers, they are in the wheelhouse.  And I agree that most WNT players come from a small number of college programs.  You also have to realize that those leagues also are top heavy and don't nearly have the quality of teams top to bottom that are near the top of D1.  Maybe with more money they will get better but as has already been proven on the men's side of UEFA, the top teams have many players from Africa, South America and beyond and aren't simply composed of homegrown talent.
> 
> I love the debate and look forward to your reply.


The league growth is really just starting to take off in Europe. While we have had some false starts with our own women's league over the same time frame, unlike Europe we had the college game. Europe truly relies on a professional academy model. Without professional leagues there really is nothing comparable in Europe to our collegiate system, a system that is well over 30 years old and still growing. European women have had nowhere to play until just a decade ago if they didn't come to our colleges.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-women-world-cup-soccer-worldwide-growth-20190603-story.html

And if numbers are low at the youth level clubs like Barcelona are doing this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/06/sports/barcelona-girls-soccer-womens-world-cup.html

My kid plays up a couple of years and also plays with boys and I've had to fight hard with club coaches to utilize all the possible opportunities while they are available. That I HAVE to struggle to find coaches who are progressive enough is another problem we have. 

That side bar aside, in regards to the leagues being top heavy in Europe many of the leagues have promotion relegation, which obviously means 2nd tier leagues. Those second tier leagues we can consider our D1 mid majors. But as the girls youth system continues to grow in numbers the European model should be able to easily match our collegiate system with more upside to surpass it in the coming years. And on top of it, our colleges sit here with open arms for many of the European women who simply don't make their own pro academies.

And culturally, I think the women's game is different here in the U.S. than the men's side. I expect our player pool to stay very, very large and very talented which will always keep us in the mix but to stay dominant the NWSL needs to be twice its current size and more women need to go directly and skip college. The problem is kids can't afford to go pro here for what NWSL amounts to be just a summer league. Many players go to Australia when NWSL ends just to keep the checks coming.


----------



## Mullet

vegasguy said:


> US Soccer would advise the clubs to be a true academy moving players up and down within their individual for development instead of straight out recruiting which is what a number clubs (not just DA but ...) do.  With that said loyalty would need be given by the parent as well and we know that many parents are well intended but club hop like the Easter Bunny.


Telling parents where to put their kids is always a tough thing to do. There are lots of VALID reasons kids change clubs and to your point there are lots of hoppers too. But that doesn't need to be US Soccer's concern either. If they are tracking 40 kids in a metro area per age group they need to have more direct conversations with those parents about where might be best fit club wise and so forth. 

If US Soccer is tracking the kids they should be actively working with the clubs and the kids and possibly have the authority to recommend a logistically feasible club change. This would be pie in the sky. But at the very least US Soccer should be striving to get those 25-40 kids together on one field on a regular basis. Essentially as I said, the ODP kind of runs things.


----------



## dk_b

Mullet said:


> And culturally, I think the women's game is different here in the U.S. than the men's side. I expect our player pool to stay very, very large and very talented which will always keep us in the mix but to stay dominant the NWSL needs to be twice its current size and more women need to go directly and skip college. The problem is kids can't afford to go pro here for what NWSL amounts to be just a summer league. Many players go to Australia when NWSL ends just to keep the checks coming.


I think this is the real key regarding whether or not the European clubs will outpace the US (with its youth structure + college).  Culturally, the women's game is not just different compared to the men's side, culturally the women's sporting landscape in the US is very different than in other countries.  Our participation rates in all team sports - boys and girls - are way higher.  When I studied abroad, I played on futsal team.  The guys were athletic enough, had better footskills than I did (a non-soccer player but I played a lot of baseball and football and lacrosse so I could play in goal), but very few of them played organized sports growing up - one played team handball, one was a runner and one played tennis, many skied and played tennis recreationally.  Compared to their female peers?  They were total sportsmen. I expect that the landscape has changed some over the years but from talking to my friends in Europe and looking at the level of participation in team sports of their kids, there really is no comparison.  So, the boom that Europe will experience may occur but whether they have the sheer volume of players to produce elite soccer players remains to be seen (this is akin to the points @MakeAPlay has made re the number of players in the 18-32 range).

There is a larger philosophical issue as well - and my perspective may differ than those on this board (it does with many on the NorCal equivalent when similar points were discussed years ago).  If you measure "soccer success" at WC titles playing soccer "the right way", all of this matters.  But if you measure success on participation rates - not just at the youth level but through college, in pick-up, in old men and old women leagues, etc.) - fitness, love of the sport, an ability for some kids to turn sport into education, exposure to different kids and different communities, opportunity to travel (domestically and internationally), etc., we continue and will continue to do things right.  Thank you, Title IX, for that and for the effect of it becoming totally normalized for a girl to be juggling a soccer ball on her own or when my younger kids ask to be taken to the field to meet friends to kick the ball around.  I believe that remains unique in other countries, even countries whose national teams have made significant gains.

Can La Masia produce elite players better than we do?  Maybe.  But what happens to the ones who don't make it all the way?  Will there be other avenues for those who have given up everything for that academy model?  Stated another way - how many of La Masia's players who were 15 when Messi was do we actually know about? How many have made a living in soccer?  And how deep a fraction do we take w/r/t girls/women since it is a HUGE leap to think that community-based 3d and 4th division women's teams will have the following like the equivalent men's teams?


----------



## VegasParent

vegasguy said:


> US Soccer would advise the clubs to be a true academy moving players up and down within their individual for development instead of straight out recruiting which is what a number clubs (not just DA but ...) do.  With that said loyalty would need be given by the parent as well and *we know that many parents are well intended but club hop like the Easter Bunny.*


So do coaches.


----------



## Mullet

dk_b said:


> I think this is the real key regarding whether or not the European clubs will outpace the US (with its youth structure + college).  Culturally, the women's game is not just different compared to the men's side, culturally the women's sporting landscape in the US is very different than in other countries.  Our participation rates in all team sports - boys and girls - are way higher.  When I studied abroad, I played on futsal team.  The guys were athletic enough, had better footskills than I did (a non-soccer player but I played a lot of baseball and football and lacrosse so I could play in goal), but very few of them played organized sports growing up - one played team handball, one was a runner and one played tennis, many skied and played tennis recreationally.  Compared to their female peers?  They were total sportsmen. I expect that the landscape has changed some over the years but from talking to my friends in Europe and looking at the level of participation in team sports of their kids, there really is no comparison.  So, the boom that Europe will experience may occur but whether they have the sheer volume of players to produce elite soccer players remains to be seen (this is akin to the points @MakeAPlay has made re the number of players in the 18-32 range).
> 
> There is a larger philosophical issue as well - and my perspective may differ than those on this board (it does with many on the NorCal equivalent when similar points were discussed years ago).  If you measure "soccer success" at WC titles playing soccer "the right way", all of this matters.  But if you measure success on participation rates - not just at the youth level but through college, in pick-up, in old men and old women leagues, etc.) - fitness, love of the sport, an ability for some kids to turn sport into education, exposure to different kids and different communities, opportunity to travel (domestically and internationally), etc., we continue and will continue to do things right.  Thank you, Title IX, for that and for the effect of it becoming totally normalized for a girl to be juggling a soccer ball on her own or when my younger kids ask to be taken to the field to meet friends to kick the ball around.  I believe that remains unique in other countries, even countries whose national teams have made significant gains.
> 
> Can La Masia produce elite players better than we do?  Maybe.  But what happens to the ones who don't make it all the way?  Will there be other avenues for those who have given up everything for that academy model?  Stated another way - how many of La Masia's players who were 15 when Messi was do we actually know about? How many have made a living in soccer?  And how deep a fraction do we take w/r/t girls/women since it is a HUGE leap to think that community-based 3d and 4th division women's teams will have the following like the equivalent men's teams?


The main body of your post is pretty solid so I won’t really address it here. I will instead tackle your last main point regarding La Masia and the kids that don’t make it through. 

There are only 25 spots for a national team anyways. Is washing out of La Masia really any different than the 98% of our kids that don’t play in college? Is quitting a mid major D1 soccer program after the sophomore year really MORE beneficial to our women’s game?

The young lady who washes out at La Masia can still go to other clubs if they want AND it is economically feasible. It’s not like there is a way for our college players to really stay in the game past college. We really only have room for about 225, 25 of which are USWNT players, to continue to play and develop past college.  With 15 leagues in Europe there are lots of places “La Masia washouts” can keep playing and developing if they wish to do so.

The only thing we have to offer our late bloomers, ironically, is Europe.


----------



## whatithink

dk_b said:


> I think this is the real key regarding whether or not the European clubs will outpace the US (with its youth structure + college).  Culturally, the women's game is not just different compared to the men's side, culturally the women's sporting landscape in the US is very different than in other countries.  Our participation rates in all team sports - boys and girls - are way higher.  When I studied abroad, I played on futsal team.  The guys were athletic enough, had better footskills than I did (a non-soccer player but I played a lot of baseball and football and lacrosse so I could play in goal), but very few of them played organized sports growing up - one played team handball, one was a runner and one played tennis, many skied and played tennis recreationally.  Compared to their female peers?  They were total sportsmen. I expect that the landscape has changed some over the years but from talking to my friends in Europe and looking at the level of participation in team sports of their kids, there really is no comparison.  So, the boom that Europe will experience may occur but whether they have the sheer volume of players to produce elite soccer players remains to be seen (this is akin to the points @MakeAPlay has made re the number of players in the 18-32 range).
> 
> There is a larger philosophical issue as well - and my perspective may differ than those on this board (it does with many on the NorCal equivalent when similar points were discussed years ago).  If you measure "soccer success" at WC titles playing soccer "the right way", all of this matters.  But if you measure success on participation rates - not just at the youth level but through college, in pick-up, in old men and old women leagues, etc.) - fitness, love of the sport, an ability for some kids to turn sport into education, exposure to different kids and different communities, opportunity to travel (domestically and internationally), etc., we continue and will continue to do things right.  Thank you, Title IX, for that and for the effect of it becoming totally normalized for a girl to be juggling a soccer ball on her own or when my younger kids ask to be taken to the field to meet friends to kick the ball around.  I believe that remains unique in other countries, even countries whose national teams have made significant gains.
> 
> Can La Masia produce elite players better than we do?  Maybe.  But what happens to the ones who don't make it all the way?  Will there be other avenues for those who have given up everything for that academy model?  Stated another way - how many of La Masia's players who were 15 when Messi was do we actually know about? How many have made a living in soccer?  And how deep a fraction do we take w/r/t girls/women since it is a HUGE leap to think that community-based 3d and 4th division women's teams will have the following like the equivalent men's teams?


Interesting post. I agree that the US will have the numbers but believe that Europe will trump that everyday by providing elite coaching in elite environments to elite players. Just look at Italy & Spain in the WWC, who have come from nowhere, relatively speaking, to having teams that can compete with the best in the world. The majority of the Italian team play for Juventus and it shows. Italy didn't make the 2015 WWC and Spain didn't win a game, 4 years later ... those federations ahve only started to take notice, as have European Feds in general, the result is 7 of 8 Qfinalist - US still won though .

The US has more "elite" programs & teams earlier (youth) and through college, but how many of those are truly coached by elite coaches in elite environments. How many of those teams really have elite players, training together daily and playing other similar standard players all the time?

Parents have their DDs play soccer in the US at an elite level for college, generally. Not everyone, for sure, but its a carrot out there for all none the less - and its a really super thing, thank you Title IX. I've watched college games and some teams are good and some are truly awful but are "good" programs. The European elite will be clustered in professional clubs while the US elite will be spread across colleges with a wide, varied and disparate coaching pool. The US will remain competitive through numbers. The US could probably remain dominant, based on those numbers but would need to heed the advice of various posters here and create truly elite pools from an early age and not rely on clubs or GDA or ECNL or colleges and hope it all comes together as it has previously.

On La Masia, it produces elite players all the time, just not elite enough to get into the Barca team ahead of the super elite players there or the super elite players they can buy with proven track records. Chelsea had 50+ players out on load from their academy last year. Some will make it, but not at Chelsea, and some won't. They sell those players to fund their academy and "hope" some make it -  they sold De Bruin, Salah and Lukaku to name 3, who were not elite enough at that time. There's no patience in the men's game at that level, but there is a wealth of opportunities for players to earn and living and develop and make it big later.

Sorry for the long rambling reply ...


----------



## dk_b

Mullet said:


> The main body of your post is pretty solid so I won’t really address it here. I will instead tackle your last main point regarding La Masia and the kids that don’t make it through.
> 
> There are only 25 spots for a national team anyways. Is washing out of La Masia really any different than the 98% of our kids that don’t play in college? Is quitting a mid major D1 soccer program after the sophomore year really MORE beneficial to our women’s game?
> 
> The young lady who washes out at La Masia can still go to other clubs if they want AND it is economically feasible. It’s not like there is a way for our college players to really stay in the game past college. We really only have room for about 225, 25 of which are USWNT players, to continue to play and develop past college.  With 15 leagues in Europe there are lots of places “La Masia washouts” can keep playing and developing if they wish to do so.
> 
> The only thing we have to offer our late bloomers, ironically, is Europe.


The kids who wash out before and or during college still have their education. The kids who become pros as teens in a European academy and then wash out don’t have as soft a landing. It is quite different putting all your eggs in a pro basket. (Not unlike Latin American boys who sign baseball contracts at very young ages)


----------



## Mullet

dk_b said:


> The kids who wash out before and or during college still have their education. The kids who become pros as teens in a European academy and then wash out don’t have as soft a landing. It is quite different putting all your eggs in a pro basket. (Not unlike Latin American boys who sign baseball contracts at very young ages)


There is no age limit with college. Nothing is stopping them form going to college later. Not to discount the complexity and difficulty of the decision but putting college off for 4 years is not a deal breaker especially in Europe where college is more affordable.


----------



## wc_baller

dk_b said:


> The kids who wash out before and or during college still have their education. The kids who become pros as teens in a European academy and then wash out don’t have as soft a landing. It is quite different putting all your eggs in a pro basket. (Not unlike Latin American boys who sign baseball contracts at very young ages)


Great point. I had a friend who played minor league ball right out of high school. Not a high draft pick but got a reasonable bonus. Struggled for years in the minors, and then really struggled with life after washing out of the sport. No way in hell I'd want that for my soccer-playing daughter, and no way she'd want that for herself. College is the goal.


----------



## espola

wc_baller said:


> Great point. I had a friend who played minor league ball right out of high school. Not a high draft pick but got a reasonable bonus. Struggled for years in the minors, and then really struggled with life after washing out of the sport. No way in hell I'd want that for my soccer-playing daughter, and no way she'd want that for herself. College is the goal.


My soccer-playing son ended up with a degree from a school with a good reputation, most of it paid for by doing what he loved.  He had several tryouts and semi-formal offers, but I am pleased that he took instead a job paying more than the average MLS salary.

And he still plays in a weekly amateur league.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mullet said:


> The league growth is really just starting to take off in Europe. While we have had some false starts with our own women's league over the same time frame, unlike Europe we had the college game. Europe truly relies on a professional academy model. Without professional leagues there really is nothing comparable in Europe to our collegiate system, a system that is well over 30 years old and still growing. European women have had nowhere to play until just a decade ago if they didn't come to our colleges.
> 
> https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-women-world-cup-soccer-worldwide-growth-20190603-story.html
> 
> And if numbers are low at the youth level clubs like Barcelona are doing this:
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/06/sports/barcelona-girls-soccer-womens-world-cup.html
> 
> My kid plays up a couple of years and also plays with boys and I've had to fight hard with club coaches to utilize all the possible opportunities while they are available. That I HAVE to struggle to find coaches who are progressive enough is another problem we have.
> 
> That side bar aside, in regards to the leagues being top heavy in Europe many of the leagues have promotion relegation, which obviously means 2nd tier leagues. Those second tier leagues we can consider our D1 mid majors. But as the girls youth system continues to grow in numbers the European model should be able to easily match our collegiate system with more upside to surpass it in the coming years. And on top of it, our colleges sit here with open arms for many of the European women who simply don't make their own pro academies.
> 
> And culturally, I think the women's game is different here in the U.S. than the men's side. I expect our player pool to stay very, very large and very talented which will always keep us in the mix but to stay dominant the NWSL needs to be twice its current size and more women need to go directly and skip college. The problem is kids can't afford to go pro here for what NWSL amounts to be just a summer league. Many players go to Australia when NWSL ends just to keep the checks coming.


The players that we get from Europe aren't players that washed out.  It's actually quite the opposite.  Many are YNT players who simply want an education.  UCLA had 2 players in it's 2015 recruiting class that weren't starters who play professionally in Europe and came from professional academies.  

https://uclabruins.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=2093

https://uclabruins.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=2075


----------



## vegasguy

VegasParent said:


> So do coaches.



True.  Do you have a particular gripe you want to share?


----------



## MakeAPlay

whatithink said:


> Interesting post. I agree that the US will have the numbers but believe that Europe will trump that everyday by providing elite coaching in elite environments to elite players. Just look at Italy & Spain in the WWC, who have come from nowhere, relatively speaking, to having teams that can compete with the best in the world. The majority of the Italian team play for Juventus and it shows. Italy didn't make the 2015 WWC and Spain didn't win a game, 4 years later ... those federations ahve only started to take notice, as have European Feds in general, the result is 7 of 8 Qfinalist - US still won though .
> 
> The US has more "elite" programs & teams earlier (youth) and through college, but how many of those are truly coached by elite coaches in elite environments. How many of those teams really have elite players, training together daily and playing other similar standard players all the time?
> 
> Parents have their DDs play soccer in the US at an elite level for college, generally. Not everyone, for sure, but its a carrot out there for all none the less - and its a really super thing, thank you Title IX. I've watched college games and some teams are good and some are truly awful but are "good" programs. The European elite will be clustered in professional clubs while the US elite will be spread across colleges with a wide, varied and disparate coaching pool. The US will remain competitive through numbers. The US could probably remain dominant, based on those numbers but would need to heed the advice of various posters here and create truly elite pools from an early age and not rely on clubs or GDA or ECNL or colleges and hope it all comes together as it has previously.
> 
> On La Masia, it produces elite players all the time, just not elite enough to get into the Barca team ahead of the super elite players there or the super elite players they can buy with proven track records. Chelsea had 50+ players out on load from their academy last year. Some will make it, but not at Chelsea, and some won't. They sell those players to fund their academy and "hope" some make it -  they sold De Bruin, Salah and Lukaku to name 3, who were not elite enough at that time. There's no patience in the men's game at that level, but there is a wealth of opportunities for players to earn and living and develop and make it big later.
> 
> Sorry for the long rambling reply ...



Great point but in the women's game once you get outside of the top 6 or so teams it drops off pretty significantly.  For example.  The Argentina women's national team lost 2 friendlies to UNLV and one of the Utah D1 teams (not BYU or Utah).  Argentina almost made the round of 16.


----------



## vegasguy

Mullet said:


> Telling parents where to put their kids is always a tough thing to do. There are lots of VALID reasons kids change clubs and to your point there are lots of hoppers too. But that doesn't need to be US Soccer's concern either. If they are tracking 40 kids in a metro area per age group they need to have more direct conversations with those parents about where might be best fit club wise and so forth.
> 
> If US Soccer is tracking the kids they should be actively working with the clubs and the kids and possibly have the authority to recommend a logistically feasible club change. This would be pie in the sky. But at the very least US Soccer should be striving to get those 25-40 kids together on one field on a regular basis. Essentially as I said, the ODP kind of runs things.



There are tons of reasons kids change clubs.  I get it.  We all have kids playing and most all have similar thoughts and hopes for our players.  What I am saying the bigger point is US Soccer wants the DA to be their philosophy / program/ YNT funnel but it is mostly self-regulated at the club level.  US Soccer is not regulating everything.  It is impossible.

 Club DA A tells a player she is good and sits on the DA bench and plays... then comes along DA B and tells the same player she is a DA starter and YNT quality.  Player movement.  Is there someone in there current club pool just as good to move up the ladder and maybe the 20th person on the roster down the ladder.   I do not think that type of development occurs enough at any club... DA / ECNL / NPL / ABC.

I don't know if this occurs today in DA on either boys or girls but you sure read a lot about DA player movement form one club to another (for whatever reason).  US Soccer can not put in a movement rule for sure.  This board would blow up (but a fun read).


----------



## VegasParent

vegasguy said:


> True.  Do you have a particular gripe you want to share?


Just making the point that you can't expect parents and players to be loyal when coaches are not. Plus, why continuing paying a club that you are unhappy at?


----------



## Mullet

MakeAPlay said:


> Great point but in the women's game once you get outside of the top 6 or so teams it drops off pretty significantly.  For example.  The Argentina women's national team lost 2 friendlies to UNLV and one of the Utah D1 teams (not BYU or Utah).  Argentina almost made the round of 16.


And you know what Argentina doesn't have?


A women's pro league.


----------



## VegasParent

vegasguy said:


> There are tons of reasons kids change clubs.  I get it.  We all have kids playing and most all have similar thoughts and hopes for our players.  What I am saying the bigger point is US Soccer wants the DA to be their philosophy / program/ YNT funnel but it is mostly self-regulated at the club level.  US Soccer is not regulating everything.  It is impossible.
> 
> Club DA A tells a player she is good and sits on the DA bench and plays... then comes along DA B and tells the same player she is a DA starter and YNT quality.  Player movement.  Is there someone in there current club pool just as good to move up the ladder and maybe the 20th person on the roster down the ladder.   I do not think that type of development occurs enough at any club... DA / ECNL / NPL / ABC.
> 
> I don't know if this occurs today in DA on either boys or girls but you sure read a lot about DA player movement form one club to another (for whatever reason).  US Soccer can not put in a movement rule for sure.  This board would blow up (but a fun read).


I get it that you got promoted to coaching an ECNL 2 team so you feel the need to bash everything DA, but most of the things you are bashing is what your club was doing before DA existed. No up or down movement between teams, and coaches not playing kids in scrimmages. No club or league is perfect but hopefully the competition will cause everyone to strive for the best.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mullet said:


> And you know what Argentina doesn't have?
> 
> 
> A women's pro league.


That circles back to it being an economic issue.  Which women's sports in general are an economic issue (other than tennis and volleyball).  The European pro leagues love American college players.  Most decent D1 players can get a contract in Europe without much problem.  Unfortunately, unless they are a top player coming out of college they don't command much of a salary.


----------



## Mullet

vegasguy said:


> There are tons of reasons kids change clubs.  I get it.  We all have kids playing and most all have similar thoughts and hopes for our players.  What I am saying the bigger point is US Soccer wants the DA to be their philosophy / program/ YNT funnel but it is mostly self-regulated at the club level.  US Soccer is not regulating everything.  It is impossible.
> 
> Club DA A tells a player she is good and sits on the DA bench and plays... then comes along DA B and tells the same player she is a DA starter and YNT quality.  Player movement.  Is there someone in there current club pool just as good to move up the ladder and maybe the 20th person on the roster down the ladder.   I do not think that type of development occurs enough at any club... DA / ECNL / NPL / ABC.
> 
> I don't know if this occurs today in DA on either boys or girls but you sure read a lot about DA player movement form one club to another (for whatever reason).  US Soccer can not put in a movement rule for sure.  This board would blow up (but a fun read).


Yup, and all the more reason for DA to run regular NTC's. Scouts should also be attending a club practice at least once a month. But, in general, they do need to be more hands on. Logistically, economically and structurally how is the question.


----------



## MakeAPlay

On the women's side having Real Madrid invest 2 million euros into their team is going to help.  Not to mention Man U getting promoted to the FA Championship division is a good thing too.  You will see some very talented North Americans headed over there in a few months.


----------



## Mullet

MakeAPlay said:


> That circles back to it being an economic issue.  Which women's sports in general are an economic issue (other than tennis and volleyball).  The European pro leagues love American college players.  Most decent D1 players can get a contract in Europe without much problem.  Unfortunately, unless they are a top player coming out of college they don't command much of a salary.


In South America it is as much a cultural issue as it is an economic one. But regardless, the discussion is in reference to European nations because they have the most leagues at the moment. I'll have to look but I don't think a single nation escaped group stage or went beyond the first knockout game without having a professional league.


----------



## Mullet

MakeAPlay said:


> On the women's side having Real Madrid invest 2 million euros into their team is going to help.  Not to mention Man U getting promoted to the FA Championship division is a good thing too.  You will see some very talented North Americans headed over there in a few months.


You will also start to see more and more home grown talent there too in the coming years.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mullet said:


> In South America it is as much a cultural issue as it is an economic one. But regardless, the discussion is in reference to European nations because they have the most leagues at the moment. I'll have to look but I don't think a single nation escaped group stage or went beyond the first knockout game without having a professional league.


The Dutch league only has 9 teams and their WNT players for the most part don't play domestically.  Serie A has been around since 1968 and Italy is just now starting to get decent.  Norway, Sweden, France and Germany have had leagues for awhile yet, they are still extremely top heavy, meaning really only 6 or so teams in all of those leagues combined are good enough to beat a top 25 D1 college team consistently.

I am a big believer in the rise of Europe.  I just don't believe that they have enough to overcome the built in advantages that we have.  Our GDP is higher than the whole European Union.  It just comes down to resources.


----------



## dk_b

Mullet said:


> There is no age limit with college. Nothing is stopping them form going to college later. Not to discount the complexity and difficulty of the decision but putting college off for 4 years is not a deal breaker especially in Europe where college is more affordable.


My European friends have a variety of backgrounds - ones that went to college and ones that did not. Unless things have changed it is not like here - people are (or were) making career/study choices as teens (middle of high school) and after, say, 5 years of college they finished their law studies or medical studies or after 3 or 4 years their bachelors equivalent (but few general ed reqs like we have so the college level is very deep in field of study (maybe deeper than here) but not broad (unlike what happens here even in highly technical fields of study) The reason I did not meet elite athletes at the university is because they were already playing for a club - either professionally or in the youth program of a professional club. The idea of trying something like being a pro soccer player, washing out say in late teens and then going to college was not really a thing. We can’t apply our prism of what we think happens here to what happens there - or vice versa - since the youth sporting and educational systems are so different. (Not unlike people on this board who continually assume that since we have HS soccer in fall, flipping a switch for GDA to allow HS is easy. It’s not so easy because 44 states don’t have it in winter)


----------



## dk_b

Mullet said:


> You will also start to see more and more home grown talent there too in the coming years.


You say that definitively and I want to believe you but tease that our a bit more. How do you know we will see that in the coming years?  Do you have boots on the ground there? Many friends in youth programs at 15 or 16?  We know it happens on the boys’ side so it is capable. But I just don’t have evidence that provides the same certainty you have that the grass roots level girls soccer is experiencing a boom. Here we had Title IX in the 70s, cable TV in the 80s (showing more events showcasing women - tennis and golf in particular), the ‘99ers and now the last two titles. That’s a lot to build and sustain participation. What does Spain beyond possible investments by specific clubs?  Explain how that trickles down to Premia de Mar (a suburb of Barcelona similar to the East Bay suburbs in NorCal) and an increase in youth teams and leagues?


----------



## MacDre

dk_b said:


> You say that definitively and I want to believe you but tease that our a bit more. How do you know we will see that in the coming years?  Do you have boots on the ground there? Many friends in youth programs at 15 or 16?  We know it happens on the boys’ side so it is capable. But I just don’t have evidence that provides the same certainty you have that the grass roots level girls soccer is experiencing a boom. Here we had Title IX in the 70s, cable TV in the 80s (showing more events showcasing women - tennis and golf in particular), the ‘99ers and now the last two titles. That’s a lot to build and sustain participation. What does Spain beyond possible investments by specific clubs?  Explain how that trickles down to Premia de Mar (a suburb of Barcelona similar to the East Bay suburbs in NorCal) and an increase in youth teams and leagues?


My player has spent time training with UD Levante in Valencia and the training and players were excellent.  Also the media coverage of women’s game in Spain is light years ahead of the NWSL.  Whenever I’m in Spain I can find a women’s game televised just by channel surfing.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MacDre said:


> My player has spent time training with UD Levante in Valencia and the training and players were excellent.  Also the media coverage of women’s game in Spain is light years ahead of the NWSL.  Whenever I’m in Spain I can find a women’s game televised just by channel surfing.


And yet the teams still aren't very good!  Look at how Barcelona and Atletico Madrid rolls through that league!

https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/football/womens-football/results

This article states that essentially 30 players in LA Liga Fem got paid anything for playing in 2017 and that the Spanish Federation is requiring that the games be televised and they are investing in the game (which is good).

https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-us-spain-fc-barcelona-world-cup-20190622-story.html


----------



## vegasguy

For the record I don't exclusively bash DA.. my opinions are mine and as a whole on youth soccer. Not club or league specific.


----------



## vegasguy

VegasParent said:


> Just making the point that you can't expect parents and players to be loyal when coaches are not. Plus, why continuing paying a club that you are unhappy at?


My point on club hopping was US Soccer stepping in and preventing kids from moving from 1 DA to the next socal.  Promote from with in if they want true development.  It is unrealistic as parents and players make decisions not US Soccer when it comes to where to play.  It is unrealistic as my comment of DA and ECNL having one set of leagues with promotion and relegation.


----------



## timbuck

vegasguy said:


> My point on club hopping was US Soccer stepping in and preventing kids from moving from 1 DA to the next socal.  Promote from with in if they want true development.  It is unrealistic as parents and players make decisions not US Soccer when it comes to where to play.  It is unrealistic as my comment of DA and ECNL having one set of leagues with promotion and relegation.


If someone has been at 3 different clubs in 2.5 years, maybe it's not the "club or the coach" that's the issue.


----------



## Ellejustus

Or better yet, we


vegasguy said:


> There are tons of reasons kids change clubs.  I get it.  We all have kids playing and most all have similar thoughts and hopes for our players.  What I am saying the bigger point is US Soccer wants the DA to be their philosophy / program/ YNT funnel but it is mostly self-regulated at the club level.  US Soccer is not regulating everything.  It is impossible.
> 
> Club DA A tells a player she is good and sits on the DA bench and plays... then comes along DA B and tells the same player she is a DA starter and YNT quality.  Player movement.  Is there someone in there current club pool just as good to move up the ladder and maybe the 20th person on the roster down the ladder.   I do not think that type of development occurs enough at any club... DA / ECNL / NPL / ABC.
> 
> I don't know if this occurs today in DA on either boys or girls but you sure read a lot about DA player movement form one club to another (for whatever reason).  US Soccer can not put in a movement rule for sure.  This board would blow up (but a fun read).


h


timbuck said:


> If someone has been at 3 different clubs in 2.5 years, maybe it's not the "club or the coach" that's the issue.


Perception in this sport is a bitch.  I can speak from experience.  Many different things go into play for "club hopping."  Moving, full ride vs Pay, verbally abusive coach(s) or even DA vs ECNL are some reasons for player movement.


----------



## vegasguy

Or better yet we??
I do not think I understand.


----------



## MacDre

MakeAPlay said:


> And yet the teams still aren't very good!  Look at how Barcelona and Atletico Madrid rolls through that league!
> 
> https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/football/womens-football/results
> 
> This article states that essentially 30 players in LA Liga Fem got paid anything for playing in 2017 and that the Spanish Federation is requiring that the games be televised and they are investing in the game (which is good).
> 
> https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-us-spain-fc-barcelona-world-cup-20190622-story.html


I agree that teams aren’t currently that good, but I think they are getting better fast.

I took my player for workouts in Valencia and Madrid last summer because her coaches in Mexico didn’t feel comfortable about Liga MX dropping their prohibition on foreign born players in their Femenil league.  The workouts were successful and she received offers from both.  At the time, I thought maybe after she finishes college.

Upon returning home, I started shopping for clubs and attempting to find a club to help prepare her for college.  I watched games and took my player to workout with teams and for the most part have been throughly disappointed with the level of play.  We have quantity but not much quality.  Now, I’m terrified at the prospect of her playing club and college because of the level of play.

We don’t have a majority soccer culture and many of our potential stars are excluded because they’ve never been exposed to the game or their families can’t afford it.  I think Europe and Mexico have advantages due to their soccer culture and accessibility.

My player has trained in Mexico, Spain, and the USA and based on what I’m seeing we are going to have some serious problems by 2027 if we do not make adjustments to stay on top.  I think the attention my player received from the coaches at Cal and FSU as an 11 year old confirm my suspicion and speaks volumes regarding the better soccer foundation acquired in a soccer nation.

Like many on this board, I believe in education.  However, when I look at the condensed college season, the different rules, and read about all the kids plagued with injuries throughout their college career on this board I’m not so sure college is such a good place.  When I watch the highlights of the tackles that caused the Tierna Davidson and Sophia Smith injuries I think oh hell no, if someone tackled my daughter like that I’d be ready to fight her and her family.   Both tackles were unsportsmanlike and malicious in my opinion.  So, I’m skeptical about the quality and unnecessary aggression of the college game. 

At this juncture, I think the fight between GDA and ECNL is a red herring.  I think both sides need to come together to fight for a 2 semester college season.  I also think we need much better training at the pre DA/ECNL level to remain competitive.


----------



## Mullet

dk_b said:


> You say that definitively and I want to believe you but tease that our a bit more. How do you know we will see that in the coming years?  Do you have boots on the ground there? Many friends in youth programs at 15 or 16?  We know it happens on the boys’ side so it is capable. But I just don’t have evidence that provides the same certainty you have that the grass roots level girls soccer is experiencing a boom. Here we had Title IX in the 70s, cable TV in the 80s (showing more events showcasing women - tennis and golf in particular), the ‘99ers and now the last two titles. That’s a lot to build and sustain participation. What does Spain beyond possible investments by specific clubs?  Explain how that trickles down to Premia de Mar (a suburb of Barcelona similar to the East Bay suburbs in NorCal) and an increase in youth teams and leagues?



I have friends over there and the girls game is growing in popularity. That is the real key. As I’ve said before, I’m looking further downstream than the current 18-32 cohort, I’m talking the 5-15 year old cohort and beyond. 

The game was simply not supported and widely available to girls for much more than the last ten years across the board.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MacDre said:


> I agree that teams aren’t currently that good, but I think they are getting better fast.
> 
> I took my player for workouts in Valencia and Madrid last summer because her coaches in Mexico didn’t feel comfortable about Liga MX dropping their prohibition on foreign born players in their Femenil league.  The workouts were successful and she received offers from both.  At the time, I thought maybe after she finishes college.
> 
> Upon returning home, I started shopping for clubs and attempting to find a club to help prepare her for college.  I watched games and took my player to workout with teams and for the most part have been throughly disappointed with the level of play.  We have quantity but not much quality.  Now, I’m terrified at the prospect of her playing club and college because of the level of play.
> 
> We don’t have a majority soccer culture and many of our potential stars are excluded because they’ve never been exposed to the game or their families can’t afford it.  I think Europe and Mexico have advantages due to their soccer culture and accessibility.
> 
> My player has trained in Mexico, Spain, and the USA and based on what I’m seeing we are going to have some serious problems by 2027 if we do not make adjustments to stay on top.  I think the attention my player received from the coaches at Cal and FSU as an 11 year old confirm my suspicion and speaks volumes regarding the better soccer foundation acquired in a soccer nation.
> 
> Like many on this board, I believe in education.  However, when I look at the condensed college season, the different rules, and read about all the kids plagued with injuries throughout their college career on this board I’m not so sure college is such a good place.  When I watch the highlights of the tackles that caused the Tierna Davidson and Sophia Smith injuries I think oh hell no, if someone tackled my daughter like that I’d be ready to fight her and her family.   Both tackles were unsportsmanlike and malicious in my opinion.  So, I’m skeptical about the quality and unnecessary aggression of the college game.
> 
> At this juncture, I think the fight between GDA and ECNL is a red herring.  I think both sides need to come together to fight for a 2 semester college season.  I also think we need much better training at the pre DA/ECNL level to remain competitive.



We will definitely see what happens going forward.  I just am not convinced that they are ultimately going to be able to overcome the structural and cultural advantages that we have not to mention the economics of it all.  Most of the European leagues on the men's side are extremely top heavy and that is also the case on the women's side.  We will see what happens.  I will be happy if the tide rises over the next decade.  Every 4 years the hype comes and goes yet little changes. I hope that this is different.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Mullet

MakeAPlay said:


> We will definitely see what happens going forward.  I just am not convinced that they are ultimately going to be able to overcome the structural and cultural advantages that we have not to mention the economics of it all.  Most of the European leagues on the men's side are extremely top heavy and that is also the case on the women's side.  We will see what happens.  I will be happy if the tide rises over the next decade.  Every 4 years the hype comes and goes yet little changes. I hope that this is different.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


I'm confused by this point. Of course leagues are top heavy and so are international teams. The NFL, NHL, MLB are all top heavy too. 

Is there nothing more top heavy than a 9 team NWSL in a nation with the largest pool of female players?

When National Teams are being formed they are not looking to 2nd division leagues for players. If your players are coming from MLS you will not get far on the international stage. A majority of your players need be playing in the top three leagues in Europe.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mullet said:


> I'm confused by this point. Of course leagues are top heavy and so are international teams. The NFL, NHL, MLB are all top heavy too.
> 
> Is there nothing more top heavy than a 9 team NWSL in a nation with the largest pool of female players?
> 
> When National Teams are being formed they are not looking to 2nd division leagues for players. If your players are coming from MLS you will not get far on the international stage. A majority of your players need be playing in the top three leagues in Europe.


The NWSL is not top heavy.  The games are quite competitive.  The NFL, NHL and MLB are not top heavy.  The salary cap and draft structure in American sports leagues insures that there is parity.  In Europe it is simply a matter of who can afford the best players.  Very few first teams on the men's side have many players that actually came up through the ranks of their academy.

Every member of the USWNT plays in the NWSL.  The North Carolina Courage won the ICC over Lyon with it's all star team.  On the women's side our talent pool is just so large that it gives us an advantage.


----------



## Soccer43

MacDre said:


> I agree that teams aren’t currently that good, but I think they are getting better fast.
> 
> I took my player for workouts in Valencia and Madrid last summer because her coaches in Mexico didn’t feel comfortable about Liga MX dropping their prohibition on foreign born players in their Femenil league.  The workouts were successful and she received offers from both.  At the time, I thought maybe after she finishes college.
> 
> Upon returning home, I started shopping for clubs and attempting to find a club to help prepare her for college.  I watched games and took my player to workout with teams and for the most part have been throughly disappointed with the level of play.  We have quantity but not much quality.  Now, I’m terrified at the prospect of her playing club and college because of the level of play.
> 
> We don’t have a majority soccer culture and many of our potential stars are excluded because they’ve never been exposed to the game or their families can’t afford it.  I think Europe and Mexico have advantages due to their soccer culture and accessibility.
> 
> My player has trained in Mexico, Spain, and the USA and based on what I’m seeing we are going to have some serious problems by 2027 if we do not make adjustments to stay on top.  I think the attention my player received from the coaches at Cal and FSU as an 11 year old confirm my suspicion and speaks volumes regarding the better soccer foundation acquired in a soccer nation.
> 
> Like many on this board, I believe in education.  However, when I look at the condensed college season, the different rules, and read about all the kids plagued with injuries throughout their college career on this board I’m not so sure college is such a good place.  When I watch the highlights of the tackles that caused the Tierna Davidson and Sophia Smith injuries I think oh hell no, if someone tackled my daughter like that I’d be ready to fight her and her family.   Both tackles were unsportsmanlike and malicious in my opinion.  So, I’m skeptical about the quality and unnecessary aggression of the college game.
> 
> At this juncture, I think the fight between GDA and ECNL is a red herring.  I think both sides need to come together to fight for a 2 semester college season.  I also think we need much better training at the pre DA/ECNL level to remain competitive.


Sounds like your best bet is to have your player train in Europe and skip the club and college situation here


----------



## MacDre

MakeAPlay said:


> We will definitely see what happens going forward.  I just am not convinced that they are ultimately going to be able to overcome the structural and cultural advantages that we have not to mention the economics of it all.  Most of the European leagues on the men's side are extremely top heavy and that is also the case on the women's side.  We will see what happens.  I will be happy if the tide rises over the next decade.  Every 4 years the hype comes and goes yet little changes. I hope that this is different
> 
> I just don’t see all of the so called talent in my players age bracket.  As of now, GDA and ECNL are watered down and are top heavy like many European leagues.
> 
> I think we have been  stockpiling players for years and that gave us a temporary advantage at this world cup and maybe the next.  Our youth system is full of average kids (academically & athletically) whose parents are buying them into a better university similar to the parents in the college admissions scandal.  For them, it’s not about the soccer.  These kids are just trying to get into a better school and it shows. We are very far from a soccer meritocracy.
> 
> On the other hand in Mexico for example, which is known for its “Machismo” the women’s league is thriving.  Each team is required to have at least 2 sixteen year olds and play them.  Each team is also only allowed 2 players over 23.  Women can also receive becas (scholarships) to prestigious schools like tec de monterrey if they want to go to university.  You can find a women’s game on Fox/ESPN any day of the week.  Their championship games draw crowds of 50k plus.
> I think Mexico and Europe have arrived and are passing us as we speak!


----------



## MacDre

Soccer43 said:


> Sounds like your best bet is to have your player train in Europe and skip the club and college situation here


I just have to convince my wife and get a job in Europe because kids under 18 can’t go to Europe for soccer reasons.  Getting the job is the easy part but convincing the wife is not so easy.

I’m also sure this could apply to more kids in the future if they received better training at the younger ages.  I think CM at Stanford is a excellent example of what I’m talking about.


----------



## MakeAPlay

I just don't see it.  The Mexican league isn't a good example.  The full Mexican WNT loses to D1 college teams.  Again I hope to see it and I agree that splitting the best players between multiple leagues.  I still think that we have a huge advantage in sheer numbers.  We have more professionals and if we did a champions league type tournament I would bet that we would have multiple teams make it to the semifinals.


----------



## Mullet

MakeAPlay said:


> The NWSL is not top heavy.  The games are quite competitive.  The NFL, NHL and MLB are not top heavy.  The salary cap and draft structure in American sports leagues insures that there is parity.  In Europe it is simply a matter of who can afford the best players.  Very few first teams on the men's side have many players that actually came up through the ranks of their academy.
> 
> Every member of the USWNT plays in the NWSL.  The North Carolina Courage won the ICC over Lyon with it's all star team.  On the women's side our talent pool is just so large that it gives us an advantage.


Ahh, I wasn't thinking of "Top Heavy" league wise in the same way that you are.

Washington Spirit essentially going win less last year does not demonstrate a balanced league. No matter the league there is always a wide gap between the top and the bottom of the league. And regardless it has certainly had little impact on the international game on the men's side where European Nations as small as Belgium and Croatia still produce top National Teams that made the semi and finals of the last World Cup. So even countries with a small player pool competing in Top Heavy leagues more than just competed.


----------



## Dubs

MacDre said:


> I agree that teams aren’t currently that good, but I think they are getting better fast.
> 
> I took my player for workouts in Valencia and Madrid last summer because her coaches in Mexico didn’t feel comfortable about Liga MX dropping their prohibition on foreign born players in their Femenil league.  The workouts were successful and she received offers from both.  At the time, I thought maybe after she finishes college.
> 
> Upon returning home, I started shopping for clubs and attempting to find a club to help prepare her for college.  I watched games and took my player to workout with teams and for the most part have been throughly disappointed with the level of play.  We have quantity but not much quality.  Now, I’m terrified at the prospect of her playing club and college because of the level of play.
> 
> We don’t have a majority soccer culture and many of our potential stars are excluded because they’ve never been exposed to the game or their families can’t afford it.  I think Europe and Mexico have advantages due to their soccer culture and accessibility.
> 
> My player has trained in Mexico, Spain, and the USA and based on what I’m seeing we are going to have some serious problems by 2027 if we do not make adjustments to stay on top.  I think the attention my player received from the coaches at Cal and FSU as an 11 year old confirm my suspicion and speaks volumes regarding the better soccer foundation acquired in a soccer nation.
> 
> Like many on this board, I believe in education.  However, when I look at the condensed college season, the different rules, and read about all the kids plagued with injuries throughout their college career on this board I’m not so sure college is such a good place.  When I watch the highlights of the tackles that caused the Tierna Davidson and Sophia Smith injuries I think oh hell no, if someone tackled my daughter like that I’d be ready to fight her and her family.   Both tackles were unsportsmanlike and malicious in my opinion.  So, I’m skeptical about the quality and unnecessary aggression of the college game.
> 
> At this juncture, I think the fight between GDA and ECNL is a red herring.  I think both sides need to come together to fight for a 2 semester college season.  I also think we need much better training at the pre DA/ECNL level to remain competitive.


What clubs did you try out with?  Just trying to get perspective because there are some that get it right.  If you're kid gets to play at the highest level as time goes on, there will be that type of physical play.  I've seen it in college and the pros, so I'm not sure you'll ever get away from that.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mullet said:


> Ahh, I wasn't thinking of "Top Heavy" league wise in the same way that you are.
> 
> Washington Spirit essentially going win less last year does not demonstrate a balanced league. No matter the league there is always a wide gap between the top and the bottom of the league. And regardless it has certainly had little impact on the international game on the men's side where European Nations as small as Belgium and Croatia still produce top National Teams that made the semi and finals of the last World Cup. So even countries with a small player pool competing in Top Heavy leagues more than just competed.


The Spirit are a playoff team now.  That doesn't happen in Europe.  Going from last to first.  In America we have built in some equality to our sports leagues with a draft and salary caps.  Europe has nothing of the sort and until they do their leagues of either gender and of any sport will always be top heavy.


----------



## Mullet

MakeAPlay said:


> The Spirit are a playoff team now.  That doesn't happen in Europe.  Going from last to first.  In America we have built in some equality to our sports leagues with a draft and salary caps.  Europe has nothing of the sort and until they do their leagues of either gender and of any sport will always be top heavy.


Leicester City respectfully disagrees. 

European Leagues don’t have a draft and they don’t reward last place teams with high draft picks to restock a team.


----------



## MacDre

Dubs said:


> What clubs did you try out with?  Just trying to get perspective because there are some that get it right.  If you're kid gets to play at the highest level as time goes on, there will be that type of physical play.  I've seen it in college and the pros, so I'm not sure you'll ever get away from that.


UD Levante & CD Tacon which was recently purchased by Real Madrid.  I don’t mind the physical play, I just don’t like it when it becomes dirty and people get hurt.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Mullet said:


> Leicester City respectfully disagrees.
> 
> European Leagues don’t have a draft and they don’t reward last place teams with high draft picks to restock a team.


And their run from lower middle of the table to the championship in the 2015/16 season was impressive, however, they haven't been close since.

Here is a article that you should read.  It is from a player who has over a million Instagram followers and has had professional options since she was 15 yet she chose a soccer scholarship to Florida State over the opportunities.  On top of that she even states in the article that she comes out on top in terms of the value of her scholarship versus any contract that she was offered.

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/2019/07/18/deyna-castellanos-soccer-futbol-gender-equality-florida-state-fsu-seminoles-senior-season/1765832001/


----------



## Mullet

MakeAPlay said:


> And their run from lower middle of the table to the championship in the 2015/16 season was impressive, however, they haven't been close since.
> 
> Here is a article that you should read.  It is from a player who has over a million Instagram followers and has had professional options since she was 15 yet she chose a soccer scholarship to Florida State over the opportunities.  On top of that she even states in the article that she comes out on top in terms of the value of her scholarship versus any contract that she was offered.
> 
> https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/2019/07/18/deyna-castellanos-soccer-futbol-gender-equality-florida-state-fsu-seminoles-senior-season/1765832001/


I used the wink emoji for a reason. 

I have been very clear that I am more concerned with 10-15 years downstream not the current cohort. So I will read the article but it isn’t discussing what I am.


----------



## Dubs

MacDre said:


> UD Levante & CD Tacon which was recently purchased by Real Madrid.  I don’t mind the physical play, I just don’t like it when it becomes dirty and people get hurt.


How about here in the US?  Forgive me if you mentioned before, but is she living here in the states?  Also, I don't think you can get away from dirty plays... they will continue to happen at all levels.  Frustrating and lame, but it is what it is.


----------



## Messi>CR7

MakeAPlay said:


> And their run from lower middle of the table to the championship in the 2015/16 season was impressive, however, they haven't been close since.
> 
> Here is a article that you should read.  It is from a player who has over a million Instagram followers and has had professional options since she was 15 yet she chose a soccer scholarship to Florida State over the opportunities.  On top of that she even states in the article that she comes out on top in terms of the value of her scholarship versus any contract that she was offered.
> 
> https://www.tallahassee.com/story/sports/college/fsu/2019/07/18/deyna-castellanos-soccer-futbol-gender-equality-florida-state-fsu-seminoles-senior-season/1765832001/


Good read.  From the article:  "_However, the U.S. women's team members are each set to make approximately $200,000 for this accomplishment. If the U.S. men's team won the World Cup, each member of the roster would make as much as $1.1 million."
_
That looks like inequality on the surface.  But if you consider the difficulty of the task by using the odds of winning:
USMNT's odd of winning 2022 WC:  80-1 (or 1.2%)
USWNT's odd of winning 2019 WC:  3/4 (or 57.1%)

Therefore, the expected value of earning for each player is:
USMNT:  $1.1M x 1.2% = $13,200
USWNT:  $200K x 57.1% = $114,200

USMNT is the one that should file a equal pay lawsuit


----------



## espola

Messi>CR7 said:


> Good read.  From the article:  "_However, the U.S. women's team members are each set to make approximately $200,000 for this accomplishment. If the U.S. men's team won the World Cup, each member of the roster would make as much as $1.1 million."
> _
> That looks like inequality on the surface.  But if you consider the difficulty of the task by using the odds of winning:
> USMNT's odd of winning 2022 WC:  80-1 (or 1.2%)
> USWNT's odd of winning 2019 WC:  3/4 (or 57.1%)
> 
> Therefore, the expected value of earning for each player is:
> USMNT:  $1.1M x 1.2% = $13,200
> USWNT:  $200K x 57.1% = $114,200
> 
> USMNT is the one that should file a equal pay lawsuit


Nonsense.


----------



## MacDre

Dubs said:


> How about here in the US?  Forgive me if you mentioned before, but is she living here in the states?  Also, I don't think you can get away from dirty plays... they will continue to happen at all levels.  Frustrating and lame, but it is what it is.


In the US, Cal and FSU are the most likely options because they are close to family.  I live in the east bay (norcal) and her grandma lives across the street from FSU.  I want her close to family because she’ll start college early and only be 15 when she transfers as a Junior to Cal or FSU.  Hopefully she graduates by 18 and then we’ll explore our options.  She currently goes to school and trains in Mexico


----------



## MakeAPlay

Oops


----------



## wc_baller

Results from ECNL/GDA head to head matchups at Silverlakes.

ECNL with 17 wins, 12 losses, and 9 ties over GDA. ECNL with the advantage over the weekend.


----------



## ToonArmy

wc_baller said:


> Results from ECNL/GDA head to head matchups at Silverlakes.
> 
> ECNL with 17 wins, 12 losses, and 9 ties over GDA. ECNL with the advantage over the weekend.


I saw a DPL win over ECNL at Silverlakes and a few at Surf. I'm only looking at 1 age group and in that age there was an ECNL team that haven't lost a game all year (I believe) until the ECNL finals championship game, and tied a middle of the pack SW DA team. It's soccer. The scores don't always tell the whole story of the game especially in a showcase (Silverlakes). Ecnl and DA have very strong teams and some weak teams even in SoCal.


----------



## Josep

wc_baller said:


> Results from ECNL/GDA head to head matchups at Silverlakes.
> 
> ECNL with 17 wins, 12 losses, and 9 ties over GDA. ECNL with the advantage over the weekend.


I’m too lazy too look up but I believe 03 blues DA and ECNL play in the QFs of Surf Cup today.   Arguably both top 10 in age group nationwide.  Blues ECNL is the national champs.


----------



## BigSoccer

ToonArmy said:


> I saw a DPL win over ECNL at Silverlakes and a few at Surf. I'm only looking at 1 age group and in that age there was an ECNL team that haven't lost a game all year (I believe) until the ECNL finals championship game, and tied a middle of the pack SW DA team. It's soccer. The scores don't always tell the whole story of the game especially in a showcase (Silverlakes). Ecnl and DA have very strong teams and some weak teams even in SoCal.



I will bite.  What age group.  If it was Saturday maybe it was the weather.  They had those mobile misters but I am not sure how well they worked.  
We stayed and watched a couple games and thought the MVLA kids played amazing.  My DD was impressed at how well they moved the ball for a team younger than hers.  Side note we played in the third level.


----------



## timbuck

Josep said:


> I’m too lazy too look up but I believe 03 blues DA and ECNL play in the QFs of Surf Cup today.   Arguably both top 10 in age group nationwide.  Blues ECNL is the national champs.


Abner vs Ted.
If anyone has highlights, please post them here.  
Does anyone know if the Blues DA and ECNL teams ever share players during the season or in tournaments?  (Obviously not this weekend).


----------



## Desert Hound

wc_baller said:


> Results from ECNL/GDA head to head matchups at Silverlakes.
> 
> ECNL with 17 wins, 12 losses, and 9 ties over GDA. ECNL with the advantage over the weekend.


Between ECNL vs DPL from the 05, 04 and 03 age groups from Surf and Silverlakes, DPL went 8 wins, 3 ties and 9 losses.

For ECNL vs DA same age groups and from both Surf and Silverlakes, DA went 9-8-17. There were some very good ECNL teams out there. The DA teams out there were some of the weaker ones overall. 

I only looked at those 3 age groups.


----------



## davin

Desert Hound said:


> Between ECNL vs DPL from the 05, 04 and 03 age groups from Surf and Silverlakes, DPL went 8 wins, 3 ties and 9 losses.
> 
> For ECNL vs DA same age groups and from both Surf and Silverlakes, DA went 9-8-17. There were some very good ECNL teams out there. The DA teams out there were some of the weaker ones overall.
> 
> I only looked at those 3 age groups.


Legends, Real SoCal and Beach are weaker ones? Really?


----------



## Desert Hound

davin said:


> Legends, Real SoCal and Beach are weaker ones? Really?


Albion LV, LAPFC, and then the new LA Surf (which is new and a combo of LA Premier and the other clubs who joined). And those where where the majority of the losses came from.

Beach DA wasnt at Surf or Silverlakes in the 05-03 age groups that I was discussing. 

I only looked at 05-03 age groups in each since Surf only had 05-03 age groups.


----------



## Desert Hound

Now on the 04 side the Beach DPL team did play 2 DA teams. Lost both, but one was 2-1 and the other was 1-0. 

I do consider Beach a good club. They just didnt have their DA teams in the 05-03 age groups at either showcase.


----------



## davin

Desert Hound said:


> Albion LV, LAPFC, and then the new LA Surf (which is new and a combo of LA Premier and the other clubs who joined)


  Albion LV didn't have any teams in those three age groups you mentioned, LAPFC only played in the 2004 age group, and LA Surf only played in the 2003 age group. You make it seem like those 2 teams are the reason for the poor results. Come on now...


----------



## davin

Desert Hound said:


> Albion LV, LAPFC, and then the new LA Surf (which is new and a combo of LA Premier and the other clubs who joined). And those where where the majority of the losses came from.


 From what I see, those teams only accounted for 3 of the 17 losses in those 3 age groups. How is that "majority of the losses"?


----------



## ToonArmy

Eagles 05 listed as DA at Silverlakes. Are they factored in these numbers as DA or ECNL?


----------



## ToonArmy

BigSoccer said:


> I will bite.  What age group.  If it was Saturday maybe it was the weather.  They had those mobile misters but I am not sure how well they worked.
> We stayed and watched a couple games and thought the MVLA kids played amazing.  My DD was impressed at how well they moved the ball for a team younger than hers.  Side note we played in the third level.


05 Sunday


----------



## wc_baller

ToonArmy said:


> Eagles 05 listed as DA at Silverlakes. Are they factored in these numbers as DA or ECNL?


Eagles were factored in as an ECNL club when I did the numbers. They were one of the weakest ECNL clubs there. It would've been much worse for GDA numbers if they were still GDA.


----------



## Desert Hound

davin said:


> Albion LV didn't have any teams in those three age groups you mentioned, LAPFC only played in the 2004 age group, and LA Surf only played in the 2003 age group. You make it seem like those 2 teams are the reason for the poor results. Come on now...


Albion LV was in the 05 and 04 groups in Surf. However looking again they didnt play any ECNL teams.


----------



## VegasParent

Desert Hound said:


> Albion LV was in the 05 and 04 groups in Surf. However looking again they didnt play any ECNL teams.


Albion LV 05 played Crossfire who is an ECNL team but still listed as DA on the schedule.


----------



## davin

Desert Hound said:


> Albion LV was in the 05 and 04 groups in Surf. However looking again they didnt play any ECNL teams.


So basically you were talking out of your ass when you blamed the poor results on those 3 clubs.


----------



## Desert Hound

davin said:


> Albion LV didn't have any teams in those three age groups you mentioned, LAPFC only played in the 2004 age group, and LA Surf only played in the 2003 age group. You make it seem like those 2 teams are the reason for the poor results. Come on now...


Fair enough as I go back and look at all the games again.

However LAPFC is LA Surf. Now why they have the 2 names listed separately is curious. Probably the same reason in some places Eagles are listed DA and others ECNL in Silverlakes.


----------



## Lightning Red

timbuck said:


> Abner vs Ted.
> If anyone has highlights, please post them here.
> Does anyone know if the Blues DA and ECNL teams ever share players during the season or in tournaments?  (Obviously not this weekend).


DA 2, ECNL 0
The answer to your question is "yes".  Blues DA top scorer played with their ECNL team throughout the playoffs and championship games.
This weekend one of (if not the) top player from the ECNL team played with the DA side.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Desert Hound said:


> Now on the 04 side the Beach DPL team did play 2 DA teams. Lost both, but one was 2-1 and the other was 1-0.
> 
> I do consider Beach a good club. They just didnt have their DA teams in the 05-03 age groups at either showcase.


BEACH DA is on break until next week.


----------



## GoPats

Lightning Red said:


> DA 2, ECNL 0
> The answer to your question is "yes".  Blues DA top scorer played with their ECNL team throughout the playoffs and championship games.
> This weekend one of (if not the) top player from the ECNL team played with the DA side.


Side note: Abner’s 2006 Blues goalie playing for the 2003 DA team for this tournament. Wow.


----------



## MarkM

Lightning Red said:


> DA 2, ECNL 0
> The answer to your question is "yes".  Blues DA top scorer played with their ECNL team throughout the playoffs and championship games.
> This weekend one of (if not the) top player from the ECNL team played with the DA side.


Blues DA team barely made the playoffs and then got pummeled in the playoffs.  Blues ECNL won the national championship.   Who won the game at Surf Cup?


----------



## Lightning Red

MarkM said:


> Blues DA team barely made the playoffs and then got pummeled in the playoffs.  Blues ECNL won the national championship.   Who won the game at Surf Cup?


2-0. DA team won.


----------



## ToonArmy

The neon bowl


----------



## wc_baller

Finals are set for the "Best of the Best" brackets in the Surf Cup

U18/19 - Crossfire ECNL vs. Strikers ECNL
U17      - Surf GDA vs. SoCal Blues GDA
U16      - Pac NW ECNL vs. Crossfire ECNL
U15      - Surf GDA vs. Surf Hawaii

4 ECNL teams and 3 GDA teams in the finals.


----------



## ToonArmy

I think u15 is blues da they beat arsenal ecnl in semis?


----------



## wc_baller

ToonArmy said:


> I think u15 is blues da they beat arsenal ecnl in semis?


Yes, my mistake. Thanks for catching that. Should've been: 
U15 - SoCal Blues GDA vs. Surf Hawaii

Still remains 4 ECNL finalists and 3 GDA finalists.


----------



## futboldad1

wc_baller said:


> Finals are set for the "Best of the Best" brackets in the Surf Cup
> 
> U18/19 - Crossfire ECNL vs. Strikers ECNL
> U17      - Surf GDA vs. SoCal Blues GDA
> U16      - Pac NW ECNL vs. Crossfire ECNL
> U15      - Surf GDA vs. Surf Hawaii
> 
> 4 ECNL teams and 3 GDA teams in the finals.


Missing from your list is the U18 final, LA Breakers ECNL vs. Utah Alliance Premier


----------



## Josep

MarkM said:


> Blues DA team barely made the playoffs and then got pummeled in the playoffs.  Blues ECNL won the national championship.   Who won the game at Surf Cup?


I heard Blues ECNL team barely got out of their bracket.


----------



## timbuck

MarkM said:


> Blues DA team barely made the playoffs and then got pummeled in the playoffs.  Blues ECNL won the national championship.   Who won the game at Surf Cup?


Did blues stac


Lightning Red said:


> DA 2, ECNL 0
> The answer to your question is "yes".  Blues DA top scorer played with their ECNL team throughout the playoffs and championship games.
> This weekend one of (if not the) top player from the ECNL team played with the DA side.


Does ECNL or DA have an issue with this?  I’d assume that both leagues would prefer an “all-in” approach for a club like Blues.  Seems they would disallow sharing between the 2 leagues.


----------



## Josep

That DA team will be one of the top teams in the country this season. The ECNL team is going to be far less successful.


----------



## MarkM

Josep said:


> That DA team will be one of the top teams in the country this season. The ECNL team is going to be far less successful.


The DA team has never been one of the top teams in the country.  What is going to change?


----------



## Josep

MarkM said:


> The DA team has never been one of the top teams in the country.  What is going to change?


First, they played up with a majority of 03s on last year’s roster.  Now that it’s an even field they will show better.  

On top of that they added a top player CM from the ECNL team, or are about to, and two top players from another DA club Surf.   Those players are all ranked high on TDS if you like that kind of thing.


----------



## Josep

timbuck said:


> Did blues stac
> 
> 
> Does ECNL or DA have an issue with this?  I’d assume that both leagues would prefer an “all-in” approach for a club like Blues.  Seems they would disallow sharing between the 2 leagues.



From what i heard it was one way helping - DA players to ECNL after the DA season. So fair game.


----------



## MarkM

Josep said:


> First, they played up with a majority of 03s on last year’s roster.  Now that it’s an even field they will show better.
> 
> On top of that they added a top player CM from the ECNL team, or are about to, and two top players from another DA club Surf.   Those players are all ranked high on TDS if you like that kind of thing.


That's positive.  The CM from the ECNL team is a stud.


----------



## From the Spot

How ironic, the champion of the U15 "Best of the Best" isn't a DA or ECNL team! Big props to Surf Hawaii.


----------



## ToonArmy

From the Spot said:


> How ironic, the champion of the U15 "Best of the Best" isn't a DA or ECNL team! Big props to Surf Hawaii.


And the u15 black tier could be DPL. I'm hearing OC surf dpl is in pk's with dmcv sharks ecnl now


----------



## ToonArmy

ToonArmy said:


> And the u15 black tier could be DPL. I'm hearing OC surf dpl is in pk's with dmcv sharks ecnl now


Sharks win in pks. Congrats


----------



## Josep

From the Spot said:


> How ironic, the champion of the U15 "Best of the Best" isn't a DA or ECNL team! Big props to Surf Hawaii.


Considering they don’t have either of those programs in Hawaii, I’m not sure how ironic that is.  Hawaiian teams have always been strong.


----------



## Messi>CR7

Josep said:


> Considering they don’t have either of those programs in Hawaii, I’m not sure how ironic that is.  Hawaiian teams have always been strong.


They spend less time traveling and more time on practices.


----------



## Dof3

Ok, so then based on the Surf Cup and Silverlakes samples (which appear to show that either ECNL had a healthy advantage in win totals or things were closer to even, depending on how certain clubs are counted etc., but no reasonable conclusion that the DA teams substantially outperformed ECNL teams overall), is it fair to conclude that, after 2 years, the DA program is not producing teams that are substantially better than their ECNL counterparts on any consistent basis?  Is two years a fair timeline?  If not, how much of a grace period should DA expect?  Given that it was DA who came into the market that already had an established league, identifying a different methodology and asserting that its uniform program was a superior approach to developing the highest level player, is it delivering the promised better mousetrap?  If the argument is that one can't reach that conclusion on the basis of DA _teams_, but instead on the goal of developing the highest caliber _individual players_, then perhaps it is delivering the better mousetrap if the best players are now (or at least beginning to on a clear basis) come out of that program.  So, then two questions:  (1) if DA is not producing clearly superior players at the highest end, is DA achieving any of its stated objectives?, and (2) since its teams are not broadly superior to ECNL teams, is DA a better option for any but perhaps the very highest caliber players (and then only assuming the answer to (1) is yes)?  If the answer to (1) is no, it appears the program needs to change that quickly or it could be fairly considered a failure, and if the answer to (2) is no, then it seems the YNT already serves this function and DA is a redundancy in the context of the YNT and ECNL.  Either way, it seems to me like it was a bad weekend for the DA program.  When you show up with the new, better idea, even or worse two years later gets you fired in my business.


----------



## offtopic

Boys DA teams two years into the program weren't even competitive with many NPL teams...it takes time and US Soccer will (I think) eventually squeeze non-DA by only accepting kids playing in DA into the NTC and YNTs. If they allowed high school play and then phased that out over the next 3-4 years I think it would be game over already. I'd not look too deeply into this weekend's results as specifics matter (and it appears whoever did the math here only counted head to head match-ups? why not overall records?). Taking a quick look over a couple age groups it looks like both leagues had similar success. Who played better soccer that translates better to college and beyond? No idea without watching every game.


----------



## Dof3

Using the YNT as leverage doesn’t make it a  better mousetrap.  If it is compelling on its own merits, why is that exclusionary position necessary?  Sort of like Microsoft making people use Explorer over Google, isn’t it?  That was great for business until it was an antitrust violation.  May not be illegal in this context, but pretty punitive to the kids who aren’t buying the product (which today has not been shown to be clearly better) and its antithetical to the mission of fielding the best possible teams to represent the country.


----------



## Soccer43

offtopic said:


> Boys DA teams two years into the program weren't even competitive with many NPL teams...it takes time and US Soccer will (I think) eventually squeeze non-DA by only accepting kids playing in DA into the NTC and YNTs. If they allowed high school play and then phased that out over the next 3-4 years I think it would be game over already. I'd not look too deeply into this weekend's results as specifics matter (and it appears whoever did the math here only counted head to head match-ups? why not overall records?). Taking a quick look over a couple age groups it looks like both leagues had similar success. Who played better soccer that translates better to college and beyond? No idea without watching every game.


Not targeting this comment at OT but just using this post as an example.  The debate is actually becoming comical.  "DA is pulling the best players and has the best talent hands down..... ECNL is dead and second tier".....  oh they didn't demonstrate dominance at a recent showcase of head to head play?  then the comments change to:    "Those were not the top DA teams there.... the best DA teams are all on break right now.....  It takes time to develop, eventually the DA will show their dominance..... these specific games and scores don't matter, DA is a superior developmental platform...."  

Either the DA has the best developmental curriculum and has the best players or they don't.  I was an early proponent of the DA feeling the pressure to jump on board so my DD didn't get left out of the party then after a short time, realized there was no unique party going on there.  It comes down to finding the right coach, team, and club that will provide a benefit to your specific DD in the place where she is at and based on her training needs.  It is a shame that US Soccer is excluding players that have chosen a different environment than the DA.  It is also a shame about the denigration of college soccer.  As has been said many, many times, most youth players will not advance to the USWNT and many will not play professionally.  Of those that do play professionally, many will not make as much money as they could with an excellent college degree and other career pathways.  Our experience in the DA was not good and actually detrimental at the time.  That doesn't mean the DA is bad but it certainly is not the best for all and US Soccer should be looking for the best not who is the best in the DA.


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccer43 said:


> Not targeting this comment at OT but just using this post as an example.  The debate is actually becoming comical.  "DA is pulling the best players and has the best talent hands down..... ECNL is dead and second tier".....  oh they didn't demonstrate dominance at a recent showcase of head to head play?  then the comments change to:    "Those were not the top DA teams there.... the best DA teams are all on break right now.....  It takes time to develop, eventually the DA will show their dominance..... these specific games and scores don't matter, DA is a superior developmental platform...."
> 
> Either the DA has the best developmental curriculum and has the best players or they don't.  I was an early proponent of the DA feeling the pressure to jump on board so my DD didn't get left out of the party then after a short time, realized there was no unique party going on there.  It comes down to finding the right coach, team, and club that will provide a benefit to your specific DD in the place where she is at and based on her training needs.  It is a shame that US Soccer is excluding players that have chosen a different environment than the DA.  It is also a shame about the denigration of college soccer.  As has been said many, many times, most youth players will not advance to the USWNT and many will not play professionally.  Of those that do play professionally, many will not make as much money as they could with an excellent college degree and other career pathways.  Our experience in the DA was not good and actually detrimental at the time.  That doesn't mean the DA is bad but it certainly is not the best for all and US Soccer should be looking for the best not who is the best in the DA.


Great post.  ECNL (College Scholarship) vs DA (YNT).  I went to the first DA party.  I was very excited.  I wanted my dd to get a ticket to Hollywood to audition for the YNT.  She was also told by coaches the judges loved how she played......hahahahahaha.   No invite.  My dd was pissed.  She was super pissed they picked 12 05s out of 48 girls for the first U14 YNT.  Some of the 04s they picked were kids who were excellent at the TCs.  Juggle 500 times and great skills in small area.  She now realizes she is not the type of player they want to develop.  She's a gamer.  The toxic part in all this: DA is really trying to sell college just like ECNL.  However, the rules don't match up.  Also, all the top DA clubs DOCs will tell that this YNT is a load of crap for 99.9% of the players and its all about the college scholarship.  DA needs to shrink in size quickly and find the players that want to go for YNT and pro.  That's the EURO style.  The US style is ECNL=College.  If you show my dd a way to make some serious $$$ playing professionally she might take 30 minutes out of her day to juggle and get to 500.  I think she's at 100 in a row.....lol


----------



## Lambchop

Josep said:


> Considering they don’t have either of those programs in Hawaii, I’m not sure how ironic that is.  Hawaiian teams have always been strong.





Ellejustus said:


> Great post.  ECNL (College Scholarship) vs DA (YNT).  I went to the first DA party.  I was very excited.  I wanted my dd to get a ticket to Hollywood to audition for the YNT.  She was also told by coaches the judges loved how she played......hahahahahaha.   No invite.  My dd was pissed.  She was super pissed they picked 12 05s out of 48 girls for the first U14 YNT.  Some of the 04s they picked were kids who were excellent at the TCs.  Juggle 500 times and great skills in small area.  She now realizes she is not the type of player they want to develop.  She's a gamer.  The toxic part in all this: DA is really trying to sell college just like ECNL.  However, the rules don't match up.  Also, all the top DA clubs DOCs will tell that this YNT is a load of crap for 99.9% of the players and its all about the college scholarship.  DA needs to shrink in size quickly and find the players that want to go for YNT and pro.  That's the EURO style.  The US style is ECNL=College.  If you show my dd a way to make some serious $$$ playing professionally she might take 30 minutes out of her day to juggle and get to 500.  I think she's at 100 in a row.....lol


Interesting,  so many of the DA players have college scholarships to top academic schools. Who says DA is not a path to great universities and college scholarships?


----------



## offtopic

Dof3 said:


> Using the YNT as leverage doesn’t make it a  better mousetrap.


I agree...it mostly makes it a 'trap'. But it is one that worked on the Boy's side once it built momentum over 3-5 years. My comments merely reflect the fact that it will probably go similarly for the girls side (but I don't know for sure!). I don't really care about acronyms/leagues (or even club name) so much as having a great coach with a vision of what great soccer looks like and can/will relentlessly teach that...and who has great connections to college opportunities.


----------



## Surf Zombie

Ellejustus said:


> Great post.  ECNL (College Scholarship) vs DA (YNT).  I went to the first DA party.  I was very excited.  I wanted my dd to get a ticket to Hollywood to audition for the YNT.  She was also told by coaches the judges loved how she played......hahahahahaha.   No invite.  My dd was pissed.  She was super pissed they picked 12 05s out of 48 girls for the first U14 YNT.  Some of the 04s they picked were kids who were excellent at the TCs.  Juggle 500 times and great skills in small area.  She now realizes she is not the type of player they want to develop.  She's a gamer.  The toxic part in all this: DA is really trying to sell college just like ECNL.  However, the rules don't match up.  Also, all the top DA clubs DOCs will tell that this YNT is a load of crap for 99.9% of the players and its all about the college scholarship.  DA needs to shrink in size quickly and find the players that want to go for YNT and pro.  That's the EURO style.  The US style is ECNL=College.  If you show my dd a way to make some serious $$$ playing professionally she might take 30 minutes out of her day to juggle and get to 500.  I think she's at 100 in a row.....lol


My 2007 played at a club when she was age 8-11 where they were required to be able to do 500 juggles (I think it was by U11) or they couldn’t start.  They were threatened that if they couldn’t do 500 by age 12 they wouldn’t play at all. She’d get to like 350- 375 out in the yard and come into the house crying. Horror show, but I digress.


----------



## Ellejustus

Surf Zombie said:


> My 2007 played at a club when she was age 8-11 where they were required to be able to do 500 juggles (I think it was by U11) or they couldn’t start.  They were threatened that if they couldn’t do 500 by age 12 they wouldn’t play at all. She’d get to like 350- 375 out in the yard and come into the house crying. Horror show, but I digress.


My kid hates it it to this day.  Her HS teammate (fullride to UCLA) is the only player I've seen that can pull off a few juggles and then a flick over defenders head for a goal.  I will say if she had the mental calmness and patience it would make her a much better player.  Oh well


----------



## Surf Zombie

Ellejustus said:


> My kid hates it it to this day.  Her HS teammate (fullride to UCLA) is the only player I've seen that can pull off a few juggles and then a flick over defenders head for a goal.  I will say if she had the mental calmness and patience it would make her a much better player.  Oh well


It’s not fun.  Looks great on her instagram account, so i guess there’s that.  She’d have been better served putting the extra 100+ hours spent torturing herself into her shooting/finishing instead.


----------



## offtopic

Soccer43 said:


> Not targeting this comment at OT but just using this post as an example.  The debate is actually becoming comical.  "DA is pulling the best players and has the best talent hands down..... ECNL is dead and second tier".....  oh they didn't demonstrate dominance at a recent showcase of head to head play?  then the comments change to:    "Those were not the top DA teams there.... the best DA teams are all on break right now.....  It takes time to develop, eventually the DA will show their dominance..... these specific games and scores don't matter, DA is a superior developmental platform...."
> 
> Either the DA has the best developmental curriculum and has the best players or they don't.  I was an early proponent of the DA feeling the pressure to jump on board so my DD didn't get left out of the party then after a short time, realized there was no unique party going on there.  It comes down to finding the right coach, team, and club that will provide a benefit to your specific DD in the place where she is at and based on her training needs.  It is a shame that US Soccer is excluding players that have chosen a different environment than the DA.  It is also a shame about the denigration of college soccer.  As has been said many, many times, most youth players will not advance to the USWNT and many will not play professionally.  Of those that do play professionally, many will not make as much money as they could with an excellent college degree and other career pathways.  Our experience in the DA was not good and actually detrimental at the time.  That doesn't mean the DA is bad but it certainly is not the best for all and US Soccer should be looking for the best not who is the best in the DA.


I'm not sure who is claiming that DA is pulling the best players and has the best talent "hands down" at this point? I've talked to a couple college coaches who feel like they are pretty equivalent right now. Who is saying ECNL is dead or second tier (besides maybe some trolls)? I do think that ECNL would have been dead at this point if DA had phased out high school soccer over the course of a few years - many of the strongest ECNL teams declined the initial invitation for this very reason. Sort of sounds sort of like setting up a strawman there. My only point about looking at specific tournament results with small sample sizes is that you really can't read much into it beyond, "Hey both platforms did pretty well". I doubt anyone here would argue that a good DA (or even DPL) team will beat a weak ECNL team and that a good ECNL team would beat a weak DA team. So then it all gets into specific match-ups which is further muddied by the fact that there are new ECNL clubs (like Marin), new DA clubs (like Albion LV) clubs transitioning from one platform to another (like Eagles and others), clubs that have two ECNL squads (quite the coupe there...I'd be pissed if I was an ECNL club that turned down a DA invite) and clubs with both and nobody really knows how they are stacking their players(!). Trying to pull unbiased, useful and meaningful analytics from that mess would be difficult and you'd probably just end up with "yeah they both seem pretty good".

Do specific games and scores matter? I'm not really sure. About 5 years ago we had two older boys (up to U19) DA programs in the area (I think in this way the boys' model is better...narrow down the number of clubs that have them as they get older. this also frees more kids to play high school!). Team A always beat Team B and had a broader, more recognizable profile. Team B had a vision of how the game should be played and taught their players to relentlessly pursue that style. Upon high school graduation Team B had almost every player tied to scholarships at various levels while Team A had just a few. Again, Team A always won their head to head matches and placed higher in the league so there was a lot of confusion and upset parents who didn't really understand that winning soccer and soccer that is transferable to the next level isn't necessarily the same thing.

As for DA having a "superior developmental platform" I can't really comment except to say that they actually have a unified platform while ECNL doesn't really. This really just means the organization has a large degree of control from the top down - DA clubs are routinely evaluated/audited for coaching, coaching licenses, vision, organizational processes, play style, quality of facilities as well as the product on the field. If a club is out of compliance they lose their designation (happens frequently on the Boys side and less so on the Girls since they are trying to build it up). Representatives frequently show up at games to create quite detailed reports (which also include the referee performances). Is that better? Maybe...just depends how it is used. It is also useful to note that even a 'superior platform' doesn't mean superior development in every specific case. I think MVLAs player development is better than almost all DA programs (regardless of DA having a 'better platform'). I'd put Marin up against most of them as well and they weren't even an NPL team (I think...not sure on this point) until they just got offered ECNL.


----------



## dk_b

@offtopic - you are right about MVLA.  When the Quakes were part of Force and my kid competed against Deza-coached and Montoya-coached teams, she knew (and the parents knew) our kids would face well-coached teams that were developing players.  Bummer that half of that has gone away (no matter which program a kid is in - she would only play one of those two clubs).

Marin FC has been an NPL club and I'd expect it to continue to be an NPL club even while it embarks on an ECNL path (most of the NorCal ECNL clubs play NPL, some typically play up).  I think Marin FC will get clobbered this year in ECNL (one reason is that the announcement came well after tryouts) but I think it is a great move and I think highly of the club.  I believe it will attract a lot of players to future tryouts - next spring's will be interesting to watch.


----------



## Ellejustus

Surf Zombie said:


> It’s not fun.  Looks great on her instagram account, so i guess there’s that.  She’d have been better served putting the extra 100+ hours spent torturing herself into her shooting/finishing instead.


Not fun either.  However, to be the "best of the Best" you have to torture yourself.  If I was an asshole I would have made her do it....lol


----------



## Dof3

All good, fair points.  I guess my real point here is that US Soccer, as the new entrant on the girls side, should have had something actually _*better*_ before they fractured the youth landscape for girls soccer.  And their use of the YNT as both carrot and stick against kids and families is a terrible thing for an organization that is a holder of the public trust in this space to do.  If the vast, vast majority of GDA players are going to college rather than to the USWNT (and we all know that is the case), then what US Soccer did in creating the GDA wasn't necessary or helpful.  That road was already paved.  I would be fine with wresting power away from plenty of DOCs when it comes to the pathway for kids to colleges, and a more nationalized program that diminished that local influence (which can be just as tyrannical) would be welcome.  But what we have now is dilutive, is confusing to families and contrary to what we are all supposed to be trying to do as a sports community (which, in my view, is to create a healthy, competitive environment to teach kids the intangibles of sports and give those with the talent and passion a platform to progress to higher levels).  Is that what US Soccer did with the roll out of the GDA?  Is that what they are doing now by excluding non-GDA kids from the YNT?


----------



## Ellejustus

offtopic said:


> I'm not sure who is claiming that DA is pulling the best players and has the best talent "hands down" at this point? I've talked to a couple college coaches who feel like they are pretty equivalent right now. Who is saying ECNL is dead or second tier (besides maybe some trolls)? I do think that ECNL would have been dead at this point if DA had phased out high school soccer over the course of a few years - many of the strongest ECNL teams declined the initial invitation for this very reason. Sort of sounds sort of like setting up a strawman there. My only point about looking at specific tournament results with small sample sizes is that you really can't read much into it beyond, "Hey both platforms did pretty well". I doubt anyone here would argue that a good DA (or even DPL) team will beat a weak ECNL team and that a good ECNL team would beat a weak DA team. So then it all gets into specific match-ups which is further muddied by the fact that there are new ECNL clubs (like Marin), new DA clubs (like Albion LV) clubs transitioning from one platform to another (like Eagles and others), clubs that have two ECNL squads (quite the coupe there...I'd be pissed if I was an ECNL club that turned down a DA invite) and clubs with both and nobody really knows how they are stacking their players(!). Trying to pull unbiased, useful and meaningful analytics from that mess would be difficult and you'd probably just end up with "yeah they both seem pretty good".
> 
> Do specific games and scores matter? I'm not really sure. About 5 years ago we had two older boys (up to U19) DA programs in the area (I think in this way the boys' model is better...narrow down the number of clubs that have them as they get older. this also frees more kids to play high school!). Team A always beat Team B and had a broader, more recognizable profile. Team B had a vision of how the game should be played and taught their players to relentlessly pursue that style. Upon high school graduation Team B had almost every player tied to scholarships at various levels while Team A had just a few. Again, Team A always won their head to head matches and placed higher in the league so there was a lot of confusion and upset parents who didn't really understand that winning soccer and soccer that is transferable to the next level isn't necessarily the same thing.
> 
> As for DA having a "superior developmental platform" I can't really comment except to say that they actually have a unified platform while ECNL doesn't really. This really just means the organization has a large degree of control from the top down - DA clubs are routinely evaluated/audited for coaching, coaching licenses, vision, organizational processes, play style, quality of facilities as well as the product on the field. If a club is out of compliance they lose their designation (happens frequently on the Boys side and less so on the Girls since they are trying to build it up). Representatives frequently show up at games to create quite detailed reports (which also include the referee performances). Is that better? Maybe...just depends how it is used. It is also useful to note that even a 'superior platform' doesn't mean superior development in every specific case. I think MVLAs player development is better than almost all DA programs (regardless of DA having a 'better platform'). I'd put Marin up against most of them as well and they weren't even an NPL team (I think...not sure on this point) until they just got offered ECNL.


I would much rather get a report from a college coach telling us what our kids need to do to get a full ride.  This report is a joke imo.  Were the ones paying, unless of course your with a fully funded program .  The DA offers 25% guarantee starts and fully funded in some parts.  Why walk from that when your club was not at "The Party" two years ago.  Plus, the high school your kid goes to sucks so you don't give a flip.  Every time I talk to a parent from the DA argument, they always say "HS Soccer sucks."  I say, "where does your little sweet one go to HS?"  "They go to so and so HS."  I say, "oh."  But if you could read my mind, "No wonder.  Your HS sucks, really, it does."


----------



## End of the Line

Thank you Jill Ellis for your service.  You are retiring just in time to avoid the inevitable adverse consequences of USSF's GDA catastrophe.


----------



## offtopic

dk_b said:


> @offtopic - you are right about MVLA.  When the Quakes were part of Force and my kid competed against Deza-coached and Montoya-coached teams, she knew (and the parents knew) our kids would face well-coached teams that were developing players.  Bummer that half of that has gone away (no matter which program a kid is in - she would only play one of those two clubs).
> 
> Marin FC has been an NPL club and I'd expect it to continue to be an NPL club even while it embarks on an ECNL path (most of the NorCal ECNL clubs play NPL, some typically play up).  I think Marin FC will get clobbered this year in ECNL (one reason is that the announcement came well after tryouts) but I think it is a great move and I think highly of the club.  I believe it will attract a lot of players to future tryouts - next spring's will be interesting to watch.


Thanks for the clarification re/Marin...wasn't sure and was too lazy to look it up. They fill a need up in that area and I wouldn't hesitate to have my child check them out.


----------



## offtopic

Ellejustus said:


> I would much rather get a report from a college coach telling us what our kids need to do to get a full ride.  This report is a joke imo.  Were the ones paying, unless of course your with a fully funded program .  The DA offers 25% guarantee starts and fully funded in some parts.  Why walk from that when your club was not at "The Party" two years ago.  Plus, the high school your kid goes to sucks so you don't give a flip.  Every time I talk to a parent from the DA argument, they always say "HS Soccer sucks."  I say, "where does your little sweet one go to HS?"  "They go to so and so HS."  I say, "oh."  But if you could read my mind, "No wonder.  Your HS sucks, really, it does."


So you are confirming their reasoning for staying DA? I'm not sure why we'd put down anyone's high school...most students just go to the one in their prescribed area and they (nor their parents) have any control over their soccer program. I think a better argument is that high school can be really fun even if it isn't the greatest.

Unfortunately, most high school soccer sucks and I think that those who do play for good high schools lose sight of that. Many high schools will have a range of players all the way from ECNL studs down to rec (or rec+) sorts of players on the same team. Some will have significantly less than that. Even the teams that are tremendous (and I have a couple in my area) typically just try to out-athlete their opponent (granted they will frequently have good to great technical skills they developed through club training). Nothing wrong with that and the kids seem to be having a blast.


----------



## Ellejustus

offtopic said:


> So you are confirming their reasoning for staying DA? I'm not sure why we'd put down anyone's high school...most students just go to the one in their prescribed area and they (nor their parents) have any control over their soccer program. I think a better argument is that high school can be really fun even if it isn't the greatest.
> 
> Unfortunately, most high school soccer sucks and I think that those who do play for good high schools lose sight of that. Many high schools will have a range of players all the way from ECNL studs down to rec (or rec+) sorts of players on the same team. Some will have significantly less than that. Even the teams that are tremendous (and I have a couple in my area) typically just try to out-athlete their opponent (granted they will frequently have good to great technical skills they developed through club training). Nothing wrong with that and the kids seem to be having a blast.


Does HS basketball suck?


----------



## ToonArmy

Ellejustus said:


> Does HS basketball suck?


In OC yes unless your Mater Dei. But you don't have to worry about some 200lb ayso Sunday leaguer hacker trying to take out your legs or decleat you so you land on your head. Joking sort of


----------



## Ellejustus

ToonArmy said:


> In OC yes unless your Mater Dei. But you don't have to worry about some 200lb ayso Sunday leaguer hacker trying to take out your legs or decleat you so you land on your head. Joking sort of


Wrong.  HS basketball is awesome in OC.  You dont see AAU kids skipping HS Hoops.  All hoop teams have hackers as does soccer.  Kurt Rambis ring a bell?  FIBA doesnt go into AAU arena and take over and tell the hoopsters no HS.  It wouldn't fly.


----------



## ToonArmy

I'm talking about talent. Maybe in general it doesn't suck it's fun and competitive sure amongst other oc schools.. I'm just saying it ain't a basketball mecca by no means other than mater dei not like LA and not like Football Baseball girls soccer and just about every other sport where D1 colleges are littered with players from OC. Basketball not at all cause the talent kinda sucks and I'm not trashing the kids it's my sport that grew up playing in OC if be trashing myself and I think I'm decent haha just not above 6 foot tall and only enough of a vert to grab the rim at 18. And different kind of hacking when the ball is played with your feet with cleats on.

I get your point about AAU and I knew that's where you were going and I agree it's stupid that USA soccer steps in and makes that rule but I also don't fault a kid for not wanting to play it. And I also don't blame a kid for choosing not to play it even if they want to when the choice is play at a DA club near their house with a coach they love kids they love ect or play on another team just to play hs. 

And some hs soccer is pure hoofball and even worse bullyball. Not all of us can live next to a cif d1 HS there are a lot of divisions and levels of players out there


----------



## ToonArmy

Ellejustus said:


> Wrong.  HS basketball is awesome in OC.  You dont see AAU kids skipping HS Hoops.  All hoop teams have hackers as does soccer.  Kurt Rambis ring a bell?  FIBA doesnt go into AAU arena and take over and tell the hoopsters no HS.  It wouldn't fly.


I ran into Kurt rambis having lunch in between games at an la galaxy sb tournament. He didnt acknowledge me when I called him superman. But I did get a photo with Steve Nash at a different soccer tournament and even got a photo with Kobe at a soccer game in Irvine years ago.


----------



## dk_b

Broken record here:  HS hoops is universally a winter sport.  That is NOT the case with HS soccer.  Makes sense, right?  Basketball is indoor so perfect for winter in most of the country while soccer does not really work like that.  I am not going to defend US Soccer/GDA but HS soccer won't happen unless (i) US Soccer agrees to decentralize scheduling (like ECNL does, limiting to showcases and playoffs) or (ii) US Soccer agrees to a special "winter only" exemption to allow players in winter HS soccer states to play HS soccer (which, of course, won't happen b/c that unduly punishes a bit less than 90% of the states).

It is interesting to see how college recruiting has changed throughout HS sports.  Other than football, HS sports is much less important than AAU, alphabet soup soccer, travel baseball, water polo, swimming, tennis, golf, etc.  Elite players on those sports can skip HS and have no reduction in opportunities.  And even football is changing - 7v7 and summer camps are gaining in importance and some kids are getting offers w/o coaches ever seeing them in person in a real game.  HS football is still important but in 10 years, who knows?


----------



## Kicker4Life

End of the Line said:


> Thank you Jill Ellis for your service.  You are retiring just in time to avoid the inevitable adverse consequences of USSF's GDA catastrophe.


Yet we are stuck listening to your inexperienced blahbering about something you can only read about, yet have ZERO experience in.

Lucky us!


----------



## SoccerMom05

Dof3 said:


> All good, fair points.  I guess my real point here is that US Soccer, as the new entrant on the girls side, should have had something actually _*better*_ before they fractured the youth landscape for girls soccer.  And their use of the YNT as both carrot and stick against kids and families is a terrible thing for an organization that is a holder of the public trust in this space to do.  If the vast, vast majority of GDA players are going to college rather than to the USWNT (and we all know that is the case), then what US Soccer did in creating the GDA wasn't necessary or helpful.  That road was already paved.  I would be fine with wresting power away from plenty of DOCs when it comes to the pathway for kids to colleges, and a more nationalized program that diminished that local influence (which can be just as tyrannical) would be welcome.  But what we have now is dilutive, is confusing to families and contrary to what we are all supposed to be trying to do as a sports community (which, in my view, is to create a healthy, competitive environment to teach kids the intangibles of sports and give those with the talent and passion a platform to progress to higher levels).  Is that what US Soccer did with the roll out of the GDA?  Is that what they are doing now by excluding non-GDA kids from the YNT?


But is YNT really only for GDA players as I saw US soccer scouts at ECNL games at Surf watching and asking for rosters?


----------



## dk_b

SoccerMom05 said:


> But is YNT really only for GDA players as I saw US soccer scouts at ECNL games at Surf watching and asking for rosters?


No question that they have slowed down taking non-GDA players, even though they continue to scout. They will admit that, I believe, and a close read of YNT camp rosters of the last two years will bear it out.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Ellejustus said:


> Not fun either.  However, to be the "best of the Best" you have to torture yourself.  If I was an asshole I would have made her do it....lol


It’s not torture if you love playing. That’s exactly what separates top players.


----------



## Ellejustus

dk_b said:


> Broken record here:  HS hoops is universally a winter sport.  That is NOT the case with HS soccer.  Makes sense, right?  Basketball is indoor so perfect for winter in most of the country while soccer does not really work like that.  I am not going to defend US Soccer/GDA but HS soccer won't happen unless (i) US Soccer agrees to decentralize scheduling (like ECNL does, limiting to showcases and playoffs) or (ii) US Soccer agrees to a special "winter only" exemption to allow players in winter HS soccer states to play HS soccer (which, of course, won't happen b/c that unduly punishes a bit less than 90% of the states).
> 
> It is interesting to see how college recruiting has changed throughout HS sports.  Other than football, HS sports is much less important than AAU, alphabet soup soccer, travel baseball, water polo, swimming, tennis, golf, etc.  Elite players on those sports can skip HS and have no reduction in opportunities.  And even football is changing - 7v7 and summer camps are gaining in importance and some kids are getting offers w/o coaches ever seeing them in person in a real game.  HS football is still important but in 10 years, who knows?


Texas never


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccerfan2 said:


> It’s not torture if you love playing. That’s exactly what separates top players.


Playing what? Juggling is a game? I bet you $1 if you let the girls do what they want they wont spend that much time juggling a soccer ball.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Ellejustus said:


> Playing what? Juggling is a game? I bet you $1 if you let the girls do what they want they wont spend that much time juggling a soccer ball.


Touching a ball on their own time. I bet you $1 back a kid that can’t juggle doesn’t play outside of structured play time that their parent set up for them.


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccerfan2 said:


> Touching a ball on their own time. I bet you $1 back a kid that can’t juggle doesn’t play outside of structured play time that their parent set up for them.


You win $1 if the bet is changed "a kid that can't juggle 500 times in a row......."


----------



## dk_b

Ellejustus said:


> Texas never


?  Not sure what you mean


----------



## Ellejustus

dk_b said:


> ?  Not sure what you mean


Sorry, HS Football will never go away in Texas


----------



## dk_b

I’m not saying it will go away but 7v7 passing leagues/camps are ENORMOUS in Texas. And skill position kids are heavily scouted at those leagues and camps.


----------



## LMULions

From the Spot said:


> How ironic, the champion of the U15 "Best of the Best" isn't a DA or ECNL team! Big props to Surf Hawaii.


Congrats to Surf, I guess....     but this same team with one of the worst displays of sportsmanship I've ever seen (at the Las Vegas Showcase earlier this year).

In a *consolation* bracket game, scoreless late in the game, they get a nice goal to go up 1-0.  Their own player then grabs the ball out of the opponent's goal and runs all around the field with it, preventing the other team (from somewhere in the Midwest) from starting play. The ref was already struggling - allowing a lot of dangerous physical play, had no control over the game, doesn't really take any action on this either.

Then, for the rest of the game [8-10 minutes], playing on a field surrounded by desert - cactus and sand and scrub, they go on to kick the ball 50-60 yards out into the desert every chance they get. After someone mentioned the lack of sportsmanship, their parents response was that it didn't matter, that they were Winning the game.  So, to a team that sacrifices everything for the W, congrats to you!


----------



## outside!

Ellejustus said:


> You win $1 if the bet is changed "a kid that can't juggle 500 times in a row......."


Some college teams have skills tests in addition to fitness tests. At DD's school one of the skills tests is a juggling test. They have to cross field 1 time juggling with both feet, turn around and cross with the dominant foot and then turn around and cross with the non-dominant foot.


----------



## Ellejustus

outside! said:


> Some college teams have skills tests in addition to fitness tests. At DD's school one of the skills tests is a juggling test. They have to cross field 1 time juggling with both feet, turn around and cross with the dominant foot and then turn around and cross with the non-dominant foot.


Cross that school off.  If the ball hits the ground do they have to start over? Thanks for the heads up though


----------



## espola

LMULions said:


> Congrats to Surf, I guess....     but this same team with one of the worst displays of sportsmanship I've ever seen (at the Las Vegas Showcase earlier this year).
> 
> In a *consolation* bracket game, scoreless late in the game, they get a nice goal to go up 1-0.  Their own player then grabs the ball out of the opponent's goal and runs all around the field with it, preventing the other team (from somewhere in the Midwest) from starting play. The ref was already struggling - allowing a lot of dangerous physical play, had no control over the game, doesn't really take any action on this either.
> 
> Then, for the rest of the game [8-10 minutes], playing on a field surrounded by desert - cactus and sand and scrub, they go on to kick the ball 50-60 yards out into the desert every chance they get. After someone mentioned the lack of sportsmanship, their parents response was that it didn't matter, that they were Winning the game.  So, to a team that sacrifices everything for the W, congrats to you!


Running around the field with the ball merits a caution from the referee.  Kicking the ball as far as possible out of bounds is good defense.


----------



## timbuck

LMULions said:


> Congrats to Surf, I guess....     but this same team with one of the worst displays of sportsmanship I've ever seen (at the Las Vegas Showcase earlier this year).
> 
> In a *consolation* bracket game, scoreless late in the game, they get a nice goal to go up 1-0.  Their own player then grabs the ball out of the opponent's goal and runs all around the field with it, preventing the other team (from somewhere in the Midwest) from starting play. The ref was already struggling - allowing a lot of dangerous physical play, had no control over the game, doesn't really take any action on this either.
> 
> Then, for the rest of the game [8-10 minutes], playing on a field surrounded by desert - cactus and sand and scrub, they go on to kick the ball 50-60 yards out into the desert every chance they get. After someone mentioned the lack of sportsmanship, their parents response was that it didn't matter, that they were Winning the game.  So, to a team that sacrifices everything for the W, congrats to you!


When in doubt, kick it out!!!   If this is your team’s main defensive strategy-  run away.  
(It makes sense once in a while.  And a smart player will recognize when it’s the best option).


----------



## LASTMAN14

ToonArmy said:


> I ran into Kurt rambis having lunch in between games at an la galaxy sb tournament. He didnt acknowledge me when I called him superman. But I did get a photo with Steve Nash at a different soccer tournament and even got a photo with Kobe at a soccer game in Irvine years ago.


Rambis lives in Marina Del Rey/Playa Del Rey. His sister-in-law in Hermosa Beach. He is a bit aloof. Steve Nash lives in Manhattan Beach. He often plays in a local fundraising soccer tourney. He is usually very engaging and friendly.


----------



## outside!

Ellejustus said:


> Cross that school off.  If the ball hits the ground do they have to start over? Thanks for the heads up though


Yes, they have to start over if the ball hits the ground. The players compete to finish the test the quickest. My player can do it in a bit over 3 minutes. The point is that it is not just juggling, but controlling the ball in the air while moving with purpose. It is also more interesting to practice than just juggling. It is also a great way of seeing which of the incoming and returning players was serious about practicing on their own over the summer.


----------



## Ellejustus

outside! said:


> Yes, they have to start over if the ball hits the ground. The players compete to finish the test the quickest. My player can do it in a bit over 3 minutes. The point is that it is not just juggling, but controlling the ball in the air while moving with purpose. It is also more interesting to practice than just juggling. It is also a great way of seeing which of the incoming and returning players was serious about practicing on their own over the summer.


I can't argue that.  Congrats to your dd.  Impressive   If my dd wants to go to college and play soccer she will have to practice juggling.  Right now it's all speed, quickness and a hunger to win.  Hopefully she can past those tests if they have them too.


----------



## outside!

Ellejustus said:


> I can't argue that.  Congrats to your dd.  Impressive   If my dd wants to go to college and play soccer she will have to practice juggling.  Right now it's all speed, quickness and a hunger to win.  Hopefully she can past those tests if they have them too.


Good luck to your daughter. Don't get too hung up on the DA/ECNL politics. Find a good coach and team and let her play and most importantly have fun. College soccer only matters if it is something she wants.


----------



## Mullet

Dof3 said:


> Ok, so then based on the Surf Cup and Silverlakes samples (which appear to show that either ECNL had a healthy advantage in win totals or things were closer to even, depending on how certain clubs are counted etc., but no reasonable conclusion that the DA teams substantially outperformed ECNL teams overall), is it fair to conclude that, after 2 years, the DA program is not producing teams that are substantially better than their ECNL counterparts on any consistent basis?  Is two years a fair timeline?  If not, how much of a grace period should DA expect?  Given that it was DA who came into the market that already had an established league, identifying a different methodology and asserting that its uniform program was a superior approach to developing the highest level player, is it delivering the promised better mousetrap?  If the argument is that one can't reach that conclusion on the basis of DA _teams_, but instead on the goal of developing the highest caliber _individual players_, then perhaps it is delivering the better mousetrap if the best players are now (or at least beginning to on a clear basis) come out of that program.  So, then two questions:  (1) if DA is not producing clearly superior players at the highest end, is DA achieving any of its stated objectives?, and (2) since its teams are not broadly superior to ECNL teams, is DA a better option for any but perhaps the very highest caliber players (and then only assuming the answer to (1) is yes)?  If the answer to (1) is no, it appears the program needs to change that quickly or it could be fairly considered a failure, and if the answer to (2) is no, then it seems the YNT already serves this function and DA is a redundancy in the context of the YNT and ECNL.  Either way, it seems to me like it was a bad weekend for the DA program.  When you show up with the new, better idea, even or worse two years later gets you fired in my business.


Essentially the timeline is not until the established Pre GDA ECNL teams age out and the post GDA teams in age groups from 06 and younger actually come through the ranks will we really know. 04 and 05 are still age groups very much stuck in the middle with staying with their established team and some kids moving around a bit.


----------



## Mullet

Dof3 said:


> Using the YNT as leverage doesn’t make it a  better mousetrap.  If it is compelling on its own merits, why is that exclusionary position necessary?  Sort of like Microsoft making people use Explorer over Google, isn’t it?  That was great for business until it was an antitrust violation.  May not be illegal in this context, but pretty punitive to the kids who aren’t buying the product (which today has not been shown to be clearly better) and its antithetical to the mission of fielding the best possible teams to represent the country.


Simple, if a kid is playing in ECNL just so they can play in high school then that is not a player that US Soccer believes to be serious about their development. At least that is the logic that US Soccer can use against participation in high school over club practice and games.


----------



## dk_b

Ellejustus said:


> I can't argue that.  Congrats to your dd.  Impressive   If my dd wants to go to college and play soccer she will have to practice juggling.  Right now it's all speed, quickness and a hunger to win.  Hopefully she can past those tests if they have them too.


Back when Deza (from Quakes) ran the Northern California NTCs, the girls had to juggle-walk the field (both directions) before they could start practicing (keepers, too). This is when they were 13 or 14.  High stress for the first timers.


----------



## ToonArmy

LASTMAN14 said:


> Rambis lives in Marina Del Rey/Playa Del Rey. His sister-in-law in Hermosa Beach. He is a bit aloof. Steve Nash lives in Manhattan Beach. He often plays in a local fundraising soccer tourney. He is usually very engaging and friendly.


 Nash was very engaging.
I stumbled upon some highlight video of his tournament because a Newcastle United player at the time Sammy Ameobi was playing in it. Noticed Joakim Noah ex nba player playing also. It's too bad basketball and soccer in socal are the same season in school we were forced to choose one or the other as early as Jr High back when scholastic sports teams were the thing as most played rec before the boom of club sports. Now it's the 1 sport from day 1 and the choice is HS and ECNL or DA haha


----------



## Ellejustus

outside! said:


> Good luck to your daughter. Don't get too hung up on the DA/ECNL politics. Find a good coach and team and let her play and most importantly have fun. College soccer only matters if it is something she wants.


Found a great coach and she's on a team of great girls and most importantly, she's having fun.  She's not a fan of 4 days a week, games not meaning that much in the DA, practice juggling 500 times, kicking against the wall and so on and being told "you can't play HS soccer."


----------



## Ellejustus

Mullet said:


> Simple, if a kid is playing in ECNL just so they can play in high school then that is not a player that US Soccer believes to be serious about their development. At least that is the logic that US Soccer can use against participation in high school over club practice and games.


And not willing to put in the time to juggle 500 times


----------



## espola

Ellejustus said:


> And not willing to put in the time to juggle 500 times


At the risk of being labeled a contrarian, when was the last time you saw juggling of more than two times in a serious game?


----------



## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> I can't argue that.  Congrats to your dd.  Impressive   If my dd wants to go to college and play soccer she will have to practice juggling.  Right now it's all speed, quickness and a hunger to win.  Hopefully she can past those tests if they have them too.[/QUOTE
> https://www.google.com/search?q=johan+cruyff+technique&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#imgrc=KxXsTqBqMFFWYM:
> 
> FYI


----------



## Mullet

espola said:


> At the risk of being labeled a contrarian, when was the last time you saw juggling of more than two times in a serious game?


I visited many a soccer thread and this debate about juggling is as old as time and so is the above defense of not juggling. 

First touch matters and there are lots of ways to develop first touch. There are very few things that require less space, equipment and people to develop first touch than juggling.

If wall ball is your thing have at it. If you have 6 kids that can kick the ball around with each other in the back yard, have at it.


----------



## Justafan

offtopic said:


> Unfortunately, most high school soccer sucks and I think that those who do play for good high schools lose sight of that. Many high schools will have a range of players all the way from ECNL studs down to rec (or rec+) sorts of players on the same team. Some will have significantly less than that. Even the teams that are tremendous (and I have a couple in my area) typically just try to out-athlete their opponent (granted they will frequently have good to great technical skills they developed through club training). Nothing wrong with that and the kids seem to be having a blast.


I agree with you that HS is about having fun.  However, its nowhere near as “bad” as people claim it to be.  Not sure how many HS games those people have watched (recently).  Not ONCE did I see dirty play/fouls or “hack” jobs.  And my dd’s HS team is D5, not a very competitive league, and with a couple of teams that had no club players.  

Having heard about how “bad” HS soccer was from previous posts before my dd’s started HS, I was pleasantly surprised at how well her team played.  Yes, there were a couple (1 or 2) teams that were not that good, but all the others actually “played” soccer.  It wasn’t kickball.  Now was it as fast and error free as top club teams?  No, not consistently.


----------



## Ellejustus

espola said:


> At the risk of being labeled a contrarian, when was the last time you saw juggling of more than two times in a serious game?


When my kid went to the TCs a few times and I saw all the development going on, I knew my kid was in trouble.  My kid can be a little cocky and she got humbled when asked to start juggling in front of the YNT scout, dear in headlight moment.....lol.  I had a fun ride in the car telling her "I told you so." I tried to get her to do the "extra" practicing.  She was told her first year of the DA (after helping her team win a National Championship the year b4) she was inconsistent and doesn't show up fired up to the "developmental games" and doesn't do extra practice outside of the four day commitment.  Guilty as charged.  Its all about development and I get it now.  My dd will run through a freaking wall to win a game that means something.  Director of the Youth National team said ECNL, High School and College Soccer are gaming leagues.  My daughter shows up for the big games, kinda like "big game James."  A certain turbo and hunger only comes out in those situations.  I hope a college will look past juggling and see her other qualities.  "Developmental games" and "showcase games" suck for her and to be candid, they suck for me to.  Boring..........hate to say it but I see a lot of kids trying to look good in front of the scouts and coaches and forgetting that they have 10 other teammates on the filed.


----------



## espola

Mullet said:


> I visited many a soccer thread and this debate about juggling is as old as time and so is the above defense of not juggling.
> 
> First touch matters and there are lots of ways to develop first touch. There are very few things that require less space, equipment and people to develop first touch than juggling.
> 
> If wall ball is your thing have at it. If you have 6 kids that can kick the ball around with each other in the back yard, have at it.


I prefer two players standing about 6 feet apart speed-passing a ball back and forth across one of the many lines available, keeping the ball low, alternating both feet.  In a long enough session without losing the rhythm, both players win.

The image that comes to mind is the 12-year-old boy or girl who has learned how to do a stepover and seems surprised in its first usage in a game that the defender in his or her face is not as polite as the orange cone was.


----------



## Messi>CR7

Mullet said:


> I visited many a soccer thread and this debate about juggling is as old as time and so is the above defense of not juggling.
> 
> First touch matters and there are lots of ways to develop first touch. There are very few things that require less space, equipment and people to develop first touch than juggling.
> 
> If wall ball is your thing have at it. If you have 6 kids that can kick the ball around with each other in the back yard, have at it.


Juggling is good.  Working on first touch is always good.

If you think you know better than Maradona, by all means don't bother with juggling (watch it with the sound on).


----------



## LASTMAN14

Messi>CR7 said:


> Juggling is good.  Working on first touch is always good.
> 
> If you think you know better than Maradona, by all means don't bother with juggling (watch it with the sound on).


Maradona was also good with his hands.


----------



## timbuck

500 might be a bit of overkill.  If you can get to 100 every time you kick up a ball, the other 400 touches can probably be used for something more constructive.
Imagine you are trying to get to 500.  And you keep getting to 450 and you drop the ball.  I guess getting that last 50 shows true dedication, but if you are getting 450 with consistency, that's probably good enough.


----------



## espola

Messi>CR7 said:


> Juggling is good.  Working on first touch is always good.
> 
> If you think you know better than Maradona, by all means don't bother with juggling (watch it with the sound on).


I waited all the way through for the real game situations.


----------



## Mullet

espola said:


> I prefer two players standing about 6 feet apart speed-passing a ball back and forth across one of the many lines available, keeping the ball low, alternating both feet.  In a long enough session without losing the rhythm, both players win.
> 
> The image that comes to mind is the 12-year-old boy or girl who has learned how to do a stepover and seems surprised in its first usage in a game that the defender in his or her face is not as polite as the orange cone was.


Sure, but you still need another player and as good as passing the ball back and forth can be it still requires the other person. So now you need two motivated players. 

Juggling only needs a little space and a ball. 

I have to laugh about the stepover or scissors comment. At the U9 and U10 ages kids perform those moves like they are an enchantment and are always surprised to see that the defender did not disappear in a puff of smoke by performing the move.


----------



## espola

Mullet said:


> Sure, but you still need another player and as good as passing the ball back and forth can be it still requires the other person. So now you need two motivated players.
> 
> Juggling only needs a little space and a ball.
> 
> I have to laugh about the stepover or scissors comment. At the U9 and U10 ages kids perform those moves like they are an enchantment and are always surprised to see that the defender did not disappear in a puff of smoke by performing the move.


In my own training, I used the corner of two walls on my patio so I would usually get some kind of playable return even on a crappy pass.  I also used a variety of different size balls, including tennis balls and the like.


----------



## outside!

Messi>CR7 said:


> Juggling is good.  Working on first touch is always good.
> 
> If you think you know better than Maradona, by all means don't bother with juggling (watch it with the sound on).


"Green mangoes are for power, ripe mangoes are for finesse."*

*from that Pele movie, no idea if it is true.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Messi>CR7 said:


> Juggling is good.  Working on first touch is always good.
> 
> If you think you know better than Maradona, by all means don't bother with juggling (watch it with the sound on).


My question about this video is, how many lines did Diego do before embarking on this pre-game warm up?


----------



## Justafan

timbuck said:


> 500 might be a bit of overkill.  If you can get to 100 every time you kick up a ball, the other 400 touches can probably be used for something more constructive.
> Imagine you are trying to get to 500.  And you keep getting to 450 and you drop the ball.  I guess getting that last 50 shows true dedication, but if you are getting 450 with consistency, that's probably good enough.


What part of 500 did you not understand?


----------



## silverback

The juggling debate draws me in every time. I know I posted something similar before but...There is a saying that says not every great juggler is a great soccer player, but every great soccer player is a great juggler. It is the first and last thing I emphasize with my kids (06 girl and 2011 boy). Of course working on juggling is not done so that a player can juggle in a game, but as others here have said, it is done to develop "touch". A great soccer player puts the ball exactly where they mean to with virtually every touch. This is what juggling develops; control and mastery of the ball. There are many ways to increase the challenge of juggling as your players develops. From simply keeping the ball off the ground with strong foot, to alternating feet, to week foot only. Make a small square area and require the player to stay in it. Stand on a line and stay on line while juggling. My DDs task was to complete the "ladder" before turning 10. 1 right, 1 left, 2 right, 2 left and so on up to 10 and back down to 1. This laid a solid foundation. There are also different types of juggling, little touches done with the flat area on top of toes (street soccer juggling?) vs touches with laces, ankle locked. Both great, but I believe that touches with the laces, ankle locked where the objective is to either have no spin on the ball, or even a little forward rotation is what many scouts look for in terms of technique. As always, there are many different paths to common outcomes, and everyone is free to choose their own, but for me and my little ones, a focus on juggling has always come first and it has shown great dividends when it comes to playing the game on the field.


----------



## Ellejustus

Messi>CR7 said:


> Juggling is good.  Working on first touch is always good.
> 
> If you think you know better than Maradona, by all means don't bother with juggling (watch it with the sound on).


If you want to be the best in the world or just be the best on your team, than hell ya, you bette


dk_b said:


> Back when Deza (from Quakes) ran the Northern California NTCs, the girls had to juggle-walk the field (both directions) before they could start practicing (keepers, too). This is when they were 13 or 14.  High stress for the first timers.


She played against that team and the new Quakes.  Lots of studs and commits to UCLA.  My dd had a blast playing against them and beating them, scoring 2 important goals.  I will confess.  My dd tried to hide the fact she was poor at best with juggling at her first TC.  She was nervous in that environment.  If it mattered to her I'm sure she would have practice at it.   Still hasn't.  I agree its very important to be the best.  My dd doesn't want to be the best.  She does want to play her best against the best.  Hopefully she will get a chance to beat those girls again when she plays against them when her college plays UCLA


----------



## ToonArmy

Anybody have video of Dembele juggling while being introduced at Barcelona


----------



## Messi>CR7

ToonArmy said:


> Anybody have video of Dembele juggling while being introduced at Barcelona


Further proof that if you can't juggle, you are probably not the best on your team .

Thank you for sharing this.  I just showed it to my DD, and she is LHAO.


----------



## MakeAPlay

This is a good read.

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/83066/the-childhood-soccer-of-crystal-dunn-an-environ.html


----------



## MakeAPlay

Real Deal said:


> Looks from the picture that she was an early bloomer, too.
> 
> Have to wonder, with only one "clear pathway" (ODP), how many potentially great players were overlooked.  It's too subjective a sport and, nowadays, too huge a sport in this country, to have only one pathway with its own tastes and politics IMHO.  Besides, that particular pathway still has a large amount of influence.


The ODP pathway was good because it brought together all players from the same federation to train together and it did a fairly good job of not only identifying players (the pool had players come in and out from most of the clubs in the region) but also letting those players train together regularly.  With ODP very few players were missed in our region (CalSouth).  Having competition between the state federations and between the regions further helped to identify top players.  ECNL and the GDA both have made this level of opportunity and cooperation within and outside of a state federation just doesn't happen anymore and the game is worse for it.  The top team used to get crowned at the USYS National Championships and there was no debate that they were the best team.  Now with 4 different championships you have 4 teams that can claim that mantle and none of them are as good as the previous unified USYS Champions were.

Divide and conquer isn't a great plan.  The old CSL Premier teams would kick the crap out of the current GDA crop simply due to a more concentrated talent pool.  In SoCal there used to be 10 teams in Premier and they were clearly the best teams and promotion and relegation insured that it stayed that way.  But of course, the "soccer people" came up with a better way that has only succeeded in splintering the gaming circuit.


----------



## dk_b

MakeAPlay said:


> But of course, the "soccer people" came up with a better way that has only succeeded in splintering the gaming circuit.


Well-stated (even w/o being a SoCal person, the points you are making are applicable to other regions with the older leagues, concentration of talent and teams, opportunity for identification, etc.)

Adults always seem to get in the way of things in the "interest" of what's "best" for kids.


----------



## Real Deal

MakeAPlay said:


> The ODP pathway was good because it brought together all players from the same federation to train together and it did a fairly good job of not only identifying players (the pool had players come in and out from most of the clubs in the region) but also letting those players train together regularly.  With ODP very few players were missed in our region (CalSouth).  Having competition between the state federations and between the regions further helped to identify top players.  ECNL and the GDA both have made this level of opportunity and cooperation within and outside of a state federation just doesn't happen anymore and the game is worse for it.  The top team used to get crowned at the USYS National Championships and there was no debate that they were the best team.  Now with 4 different championships you have 4 teams that can claim that mantle and none of them are as good as the previous unified USYS Champions were.
> 
> Divide and conquer isn't a great plan.  The old CSL Premier teams would kick the crap out of the current GDA crop simply due to a more concentrated talent pool.  In SoCal there used to be 10 teams in Premier and they were clearly the best teams and promotion and relegation insured that it stayed that way.  But of course, the "soccer people" came up with a better way that has only succeeded in splintering the gaming circuit.


I'd love to be able to see an "old CSL team" try to kick the crap out of the likes of U15 Earthquakes GDA or U16/17 Solar GDA.  I think you might be surprised at the skill level of a number of these players _nowadays._


----------



## dk_b

Real Deal said:


> How can you be sure how many players were missed?  I do think they do a great job identifying, but there are too many kids out there for one organization to decide it all in this day and age.  It's a good thing that there are 4 teams.  Giving more opportunities to talented young kids is a good thing.
> 
> Plus I'd love to be able to see an "old CSL team" try to kick the crap out of the likes of U15 Earthquakes GDA or U16/17 Solar GDA.  I think you might be surprised at the skill level of a number of these players _nowadays._


There is no perfect system and players will always be missed.  But the alphabet soup of programs necessarily means a dilution of the talent - it may mean more opportunities but harder to compare apples-to-apples because the top level talent is going to be spread out more than in past iterations of Youth Soccer.  There are many skilled players out there (and many are acquiring skills at younger ages than in the past) but unless the talent pool is endless, there is a limit.  Do the U15 Quakes and U16/U17 Solar teams have every top player in their regions?  Is there a higher concentration than in past years?  Having had kids who have played in 3 pretty distinct iterations, it is hard to imagine that the concentration is higher today on teams like those than on super teams of past years.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> The ODP pathway was good because it brought together all players from the same federation to train together and it did a fairly good job of not only identifying players (the pool had players come in and out from most of the clubs in the region) but also letting those players train together regularly.  With ODP very few players were missed in our region (CalSouth).  Having competition between the state federations and between the regions further helped to identify top players.  ECNL and the GDA both have made this level of opportunity and cooperation within and outside of a state federation just doesn't happen anymore and the game is worse for it.  The top team used to get crowned at the USYS National Championships and there was no debate that they were the best team.  Now with 4 different championships you have 4 teams that can claim that mantle and none of them are as good as the previous unified USYS Champions were.
> 
> Divide and conquer isn't a great plan.  The old CSL Premier teams would kick the crap out of the current GDA crop simply due to a more concentrated talent pool.  In SoCal there used to be 10 teams in Premier and they were clearly the best teams and promotion and relegation insured that it stayed that way.  But of course, the "soccer people" came up with a better way that has only succeeded in splintering the gaming circuit.


My solution after two years of this crap for Socal and the rest of the country: US Soccer can take the top 20 kids in Socal, top 20 in Nocal and so on (the kids who want to go all in with just soccer, soccer, soccer, soccer, soccer, soccer.....................) and have their developmental league.  They can have juggling contests, skills contest, who can score the most goals and the ultimate prize, the golden ticket to Hollywood.  The rest us can go all in with ECNL.  Have a top league of 8 teams equally spread out in the SW.  We can have ECNL 2 as well.  Bottom two in Champions group get knocked down to ECNL 2 and the top 2 in ECNL 2 get brought up.  No more politics.  I think we can find 16 clubs in the SW area to participate.  Once we do, we can have a tournament of 16 teams to determind top 8.  8 teams play at Silverlakes and 8 in Oceanside.  We have to keep those two happy $$$$$$$$.  Parents in SoCal hold the power.  Vote with your pocket book


----------



## Dubs

Mullet said:


> I visited many a soccer thread and this debate about juggling is as old as time and so is the above defense of not juggling.
> 
> First touch matters and there are lots of ways to develop first touch. There are very few things that require less space, equipment and people to develop first touch than juggling.
> 
> If wall ball is your thing have at it. If you have 6 kids that can kick the ball around with each other in the back yard, have at it.


Agree.  Most important thing is that your kid has the will/dedication to engage in ball work every single day.  It 100% translates on the field, in terms of their composure on the ball.  Takes a focused kid though.


----------



## Real Deal

dk_b said:


> There is no perfect system and players will always be missed.  But the alphabet soup of programs necessarily means a dilution of the talent - it may mean more opportunities but harder to compare apples-to-apples because the top level talent is going to be spread out more than in past iterations of Youth Soccer.  There are many skilled players out there (and many are acquiring skills at younger ages than in the past) but unless the talent pool is endless, there is a limit.  Do the U15 Quakes and U16/U17 Solar teams have every top player in their regions?  Is there a higher concentration than in past years?  Having had kids who have played in 3 pretty distinct iterations, it is hard to imagine that the concentration is higher today on teams like those than on super teams of past years.


Well I wasn't there back in the day.  But I'd venture to guess that, while talent may be diluted, there is just far more of it now.  This sport has grown immensely in the past few years, and especially on the girls' side.  No, those teams don't have all the top talent in the region.  That would take three teams.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Real Deal said:


> I'd love to be able to see an "old CSL team" try to kick the crap out of the likes of U15 Earthquakes GDA or U16/17 Solar GDA.  I think you might be surprised at the skill level of a number of these players _nowadays._


I'm not surprised at all.  I have a player who has started every game of her college career on a top 5 team and was a member of the #1 recruiting class in the nation her senior year., so I know what skilled players look like.  She also won 2 ODP national championships and trust me the teams that I see on video aren't even close.  That Earthquakes team isn't even Deza's best team.  His old Redwood Rays/DeAnza Force team would have beaten them easily and they weren't even the best team in their age group and even they weren't as good as the old CSL Premier teams. 

I know that it is hard to imagine what it would look like if ALL of SoCal played in one main gaming circuit (Surf was the only team that wasn't allowed to play in CSL Premier due to politics BTW) but it used to happen.  ODP was a HUGE deal and was a pipeline to the YNTs.  The tendency is to think that newer is always better.  The truth is that a concentration of talent always gives you a leg up.  The old CSL Premier teams would have almost every top player in SoCal and the top team would often win the USYS National Championship or at least make it to the final against an All-Star team from either Texas, NY/NJ or occasionally a team from either Michigan/Ohio/Colorado/Chicago.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Ellejustus

Real Deal said:


> I'd love to be able to see an "old CSL team" try to kick the crap out of the likes of U15 Earthquakes GDA or U16/17 Solar GDA.  I think you might be surprised at the skill level of a number of these players _nowadays._


Those teams were 03/04.  These two are good teams but they play in a very watered down developmental league.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Real Deal said:


> Well I wasn't there back in the day.  But I'd venture to guess that, while talent may be diluted, there is just far more of it now.  This sport has grown immensely in the past few years, and especially on the girls' side.  No, those teams don't have all the top talent in the region.  That would take three teams.



CSL Premier concentrated all of the top talent in SoCal.  The only region that didn't have pretty much all of their players playing in it was San Diego and that was simply because Surf wasn't allowed in and they had most of the top talent in San Diego.  I know that it is hard to imagine in this current climate.  The best analogy I can give is for someone who only got to see the 2 and a half years of the Trump presidency would find it hard to imagine a president that isn't a total dumpster fire.  It was the case though....


----------



## dk_b

Real Deal said:


> Well I wasn't there back in the day.  But I'd venture to guess that, while talent may be diluted, there is just far more of it now.  This sport has grown immensely in the past few years, and especially on the girls' side.  No, those teams don't have all the top talent in the region.  That would take three teams.


"far more of it"?  How far back are you looking?  The participation rates have been really high for a long time - have it really grown that much in the last 5 years (I generally consider "few" to mean 3 but I will back it out further)?  I'd be interested to see the trend over the last decade - I do think there are many skilled players, maybe even more of a certain skill level, but I don't think the # of competitive players has changed any more than can be attributed to odd demographic blips (some groups more, some groups fewer)

(not sure how it is in SoCal but the # of girls generally seems lower in the Bay Area in the 06 age range (or maybe I should say the 05/06 group who will be class of 2024) - my twins' classrooms in elementary school were often 2:1 boys:girls and, in speaking to other people from around the Bay, they had similar odd ratios; that is very different than my older girl (02, class of 2020) and my oldest (my son, 98, class of 2016) (my 02 daughter's first club - a very small club that none of you would have heard of - had 3 teams at one point at the 01/02 level, something that is not possible with my 06s at the same club; the club she joined at U13 had a HUGE # of competitive players in that 01/02 group, demographically similar to our local community).


----------



## dk_b

dk_b said:


> "far more of it"?  How far back are you looking?  The participation rates have been really high for a long time - have it really grown that much in the last 5 years (I generally consider "few" to mean 3 but I will back it out further)?  I'd be interested to see the trend over the last decade - I do think there are many skilled players, maybe even more of a certain skill level, but I don't think the # of competitive players has changed any more than can be attributed to odd demographic blips (some groups more, some groups fewer)
> 
> (not sure how it is in SoCal but the # of girls generally seems lower in the Bay Area in the 06 age range (or maybe I should say the 05/06 group who will be class of 2024) - my twins' classrooms in elementary school were often 2:1 boys:girls and, in speaking to other people from around the Bay, they had similar odd ratios; that is very different than my older girl (02, class of 2020) and my oldest (my son, 98, class of 2016) (my 02 daughter's first club - a very small club that none of you would have heard of - had 3 teams at one point at the 01/02 level, something that is not possible with my 06s at the same club; the club she joined at U13 had a HUGE # of competitive players in that 01/02 group, demographically similar to our local community).


Not sure if this is behind a paywall but this article takes issue with the continued growth of the sport:  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/14/sports/world-cup/soccer-youth-decline.html


----------



## MakeAPlay

Here is a link to the year that Amy Rodriguez's Eclipse White team won the USYS National Championship.  McCall Zerboni played for the Blues team coached by Randy Dodge.

http://www.coastsoccer.com/2003/SG170P.htm


----------



## MakeAPlay

http://www.coastsoccer.com/2006/sG190P.htm

This link is from Alex Morgan's senior year.  She was on the Cypress Elite team.  Click on the yellow cards and you can see her referred to as Alexandra Morgan (who by the way started club soccer at 14 which would be "too late" under GDA desires because she was a multi-sport athlete).


----------



## Real Deal

MakeAPlay said:


> Here is a link to the year that Amy Rodriguez's Eclipse White team won the USYS National Championship.  McCall Zerboni played for the Blues team coached by Randy Dodge.
> 
> http://www.coastsoccer.com/2003/SG170P.htm


Okay so you have 10 teams and a team at the top that is 9-0-3 and one on the bottom is 1-8-4.  That isn't too different from what we see today


----------



## Real Deal

MakeAPlay said:


> http://www.coastsoccer.com/2006/sG190P.htm
> 
> This link is from Alex Morgan's senior year.  She was on the Cypress Elite team.  Click on the yellow cards and you can see her referred to as Alexandra Morgan (who by the way started club soccer at 14 which would be "too late" under GDA desires because she was a multi-sport athlete).


One million percent agree that all things sports-related start too young and continue to get younger and younger.  Kids get put on a pedestal too young, and kids get discouraged too young. For some, the pressure to stay on top is overwhelming, and for others, it is the pressure to catch up.  If participation is declining, that may be one reason why.  Also may contribute to anxiety and depression rates as it seems the trend in everything.


----------



## MakeAPlay

dk_b said:


> "far more of it"?  How far back are you looking?  The participation rates have been really high for a long time - have it really grown that much in the last 5 years (I generally consider "few" to mean 3 but I will back it out further)?  I'd be interested to see the trend over the last decade - I do think there are many skilled players, maybe even more of a certain skill level, but I don't think the # of competitive players has changed any more than can be attributed to odd demographic blips (some groups more, some groups fewer)
> 
> (not sure how it is in SoCal but the # of girls generally seems lower in the Bay Area in the 06 age range (or maybe I should say the 05/06 group who will be class of 2024) - my twins' classrooms in elementary school were often 2:1 boys:girls and, in speaking to other people from around the Bay, they had similar odd ratios; that is very different than my older girl (02, class of 2020) and my oldest (my son, 98, class of 2016) (my 02 daughter's first club - a very small club that none of you would have heard of - had 3 teams at one point at the 01/02 level, something that is not possible with my 06s at the same club; the club she joined at U13 had a HUGE # of competitive players in that 01/02 group, demographically similar to our local community).


My daughter was at West Coast FC at the U10-U12 level and they had 3-4 teams at every age group (one of the reasons that we left is that they had one coach coaching two teams in the same bracket!).  I am not sure about the numbers now as I am 4 years removed from club soccer, however, there were a TON of teams back in the day.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> This is a good read.
> 
> https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/83066/the-childhood-soccer-of-crystal-dunn-an-environ.html


Great article.  I like the juggling part.  I played basketball.  Every practice we shot free throws at the end.  If you wanted to be the best, you stayed later or practiced when others were surfing.  It's a choice.  I will say I saw very little coaching and teaching on juggling at practices when my kid was a youth.  It was understood that you would work on that skill on your own.  As one coach said to my kid, "the soccer ball has to be your best friend.  Do you talk to your best friend everyday?"


----------



## MakeAPlay

Real Deal said:


> One million percent agree that all things sports-related start too young and continue to get younger and younger.  Kids get put on a pedestal too young, and kids get discouraged too young. For some, the pressure to stay on top is overwhelming, and for others, it is the pressure to catch up.  If participation is declining, that may be one reason why.  Also may contribute to anxiety and depression rates as it seems the trend in everything.


Alex Morgan’s team was the 3rd place team FYI.  Having a top player and having a top team are two completely different things.  Having all the top players in a region playing in one gaming circuit used to be awesome.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Real Deal said:


> Okay so you have 10 teams and a team at the top that is 9-0-3 and one on the bottom is 1-8-4.  That isn't too different from what we see today


Look at the scores though.  They are close because all the teams had a roster full of talented players.  The only team not in that league that could compete was Surf and even the last place Premier team would murder the rest of the teams in the country other than maybe a Dallas Sting, PDA, Colorado Rush, MVLA or Michigan Hawks team.

Teams would travel here to play against the best and the only time SoCal teams would travel would be for the Vegas Showcase, PDA Showcase, and the USYS championship.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> Look at the scores though.  They are close because all the teams had a roster full of talented players.  The only team not in that league that could compete was Surf and even the last place Premier team would murder the rest of the teams in the country other than maybe a Dallas Sting, PDA, Colorado Rush, MVLA or Michigan Hawks team.
> 
> Teams would travel here to play against the best and the only time SoCal teams would travel would be for the Vegas Showcase, PDA Showcase, and the USYS championship.


Ding ding ding ding.......Socal sold out for $$$$ folks.  And if you don't fully commit yourself by 12 years old to full time soccer, you get regulated to ECNL.  What a a bunch of BS.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> Look at the scores though.  They are close because all the teams had a roster full of talented players.  The only team not in that league that could compete was Surf and even the last place Premier team would murder the rest of the teams in the country other than maybe a Dallas Sting, PDA, Colorado Rush, MVLA or Michigan Hawks team.
> 
> Teams would travel here to play against the best and the only time SoCal teams would travel would be for the Vegas Showcase, PDA Showcase, and the USYS championship.


This last year I saw friends leaving for NJ, CO, FL, VA  and I keep thinking to myself, "why."  This is stupid and frankly expensive.  SoCal can pitch a tent and all the teams will come here.   What two clubs in SoCal have benefited the most $$$$$ wise with this seismic shift?  $1 to the first person to name them....


----------



## Ellejustus

dk_b said:


> Not sure if this is behind a paywall but this article takes issue with the continued growth of the sport:  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/14/sports/world-cup/soccer-youth-decline.html


Interesting article.  Soccer should be promoted K-12 folks.  It would be free to all 
The Urban Soccer Leadership Academy in San Antonio illustrates the potential for growth. It has expanded to more than 500 players — predominantly Latino, low income and considered at high risk of dropping out of school — by working closely with the city’s schools.

Although the federation has installed an academy system to standardize coaching and culture, many believe it chokes off a pathway for young players. Academy members are forbidden to play on their high school or college teams.

“Soccer is the fastest-growing sport in urban schools,” said Ed Garza, the former mayor of San Antonio and president of the academy. “It’s part of the cultural dynamic.

“Why would you want to shut down that potential pipeline?”


----------



## Real Deal

Ellejustus said:


> This last year I saw friends leaving for NJ, CO, FL, VA  and I keep thinking to myself, "why."  This is stupid and frankly expensive.  SoCal can pitch a tent and all the teams will come here.   What two clubs in SoCal have benefited the most $$$$$ wise with this seismic shift?  $1 to the first person to name them....


Why don't you just go ahead.


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> Interesting article.  Soccer should be promoted K-12 folks.  It would be free to all
> The Urban Soccer Leadership Academy in San Antonio illustrates the potential for growth. It has expanded to more than 500 players — predominantly Latino, low income and considered at high risk of dropping out of school — by working closely with the city’s schools.
> 
> Although the federation has installed an academy system to standardize coaching and culture, many believe it chokes off a pathway for young players. Academy members are forbidden to play on their high school or college teams.
> 
> “Soccer is the fastest-growing sport in urban schools,” said Ed Garza, the former mayor of San Antonio and president of the academy. “It’s part of the cultural dynamic.
> 
> “Why would you want to shut down that potential pipeline?”


Our family is doing ok $$ wise but soccer is 100% helping my dd get good grades and stay in school.  If I didn't play sports in HS, I would have dropped out by 9th or 10th grade.


----------



## espola

Ellejustus said:


> Our family is doing ok $$ wise but soccer is 100% helping my dd get good grades and stay in school.  If I didn't play sports in HS, I would have dropped out by 9th or 10th grade.


When I would go to see my son play in college, I often told him that since he was playing I knew that he was still academically eligible.


----------



## End of the Line

Ellejustus said:


> My solution after two years of this crap for Socal and the rest of the country: US Soccer can take the top 20 kids in Socal, top 20 in Nocal and so on (the kids who want to go all in with just soccer, soccer, soccer, soccer, soccer, soccer.....................) and have their developmental league.  They can have juggling contests, skills contest, who can score the most goals and the ultimate prize, the golden ticket to Hollywood.  The rest us can go all in with ECNL.  Have a top league of 8 teams equally spread out in the SW.  We can have ECNL 2 as well.  Bottom two in Champions group get knocked down to ECNL 2 and the top 2 in ECNL 2 get brought up.  No more politics.  I think we can find 16 clubs in the SW area to participate.  Once we do, we can have a tournament of 16 teams to determind top 8.  8 teams play at Silverlakes and 8 in Oceanside.  We have to keep those two happy $$$$$$$$.  Parents in SoCal hold the power.  Vote with your pocket book


The better solution is for US Soccer to get out of the youth soccer business and just let different regions do what works best for them.  There is one thing that makes for a great WNT, and one thing only, which is that more of a country's kids play it, and play it more often over more years.  That's it.  And that happens when a sport is fun and accessible.  US Soccer, however, is driving people out of the sport in droves because they take the fun out of it and make it too expensive for most to play it at a remotely high level.  If US Soccer succeeds, every really good youth soccer player with any potential will need to start buying plane tickets to fly all over the country 10 months a year if they already aren't.  If Cordeiro were sincere about making soccer more affordable as he claims in the NYT article, he would start by paying for everyone's hotel and plane ticket to Vegas to beat the s**t out of an Albion squad that will be far worse than any of a number of SoCal HS teams.  I am sorry Las Vegas, but if you don't have enough good youth players to play elite soccer locally, that is your problem and you need to be the ones doing the traveling.

And, as others have alluded to, US Soccer completely misses the point with respect to the actual benefits of soccer at the youth level.  There are, what, 20 players on a WC roster?  That's fewer than 2 persons per birth year on average between the ages of the youngest and oldest players on the team.  US Soccer is creating a youth system that is intended to benefit fewer than 2 of the almost 2 million women born in the U.S. every year - plus Macario.  Yet two people in just one family (Ellejustus') benefited from the system that US Soccer seeks to destroy.  Especially on the girls' side, youth soccer is a pathway to educational opportunities for thousands of kids every year that would otherwise be out of reach, whether that's just getting a kid through HS, staying grade eligible in HS, or getting into Stanford or UCLA (and maybe scholarship money) instead of going to a JC or passing up college completely because people need to eat to live. Why is all this crazy nonsense happening?  Because US Soccer finds it inconvenient scouting kids at lots of tournaments like in the old days.  GDA makes it much easier to find all the best U14 girls, who will either fizzle out as they get older or will prove themselves in college and would have been found anyway at an age that actually matters.


----------



## MarkM

Real Deal said:


> I'd love to be able to see an "old CSL team" try to kick the crap out of the likes of U15 Earthquakes GDA or U16/17 Solar GDA.  I think you might be surprised at the skill level of a number of these players _nowadays._


I don't think that you should correlate the strength of an overall league with the strength of only a few top teams or weakness of a few bottom teams.  Those are relevant, but don't really speak to the overall depth of a league.


----------



## MakeAPlay

End of the Line said:


> The better solution is for US Soccer to get out of the youth soccer business and just let different regions do what works best for them.  There is one thing that makes for a great WNT, and one thing only, which is that more of a country's kids play it, and play it more often over more years.  That's it.  And that happens when a sport is fun and accessible.  US Soccer, however, is driving people out of the sport in droves because they take the fun out of it and make it too expensive for most to play it at a remotely high level.  If US Soccer succeeds, every really good youth soccer player with any potential will need to start buying plane tickets to fly all over the country 10 months a year if they already aren't.  If Cordeiro were sincere about making soccer more affordable as he claims in the NYT article, he would start by paying for everyone's hotel and plane ticket to Vegas to beat the s**t out of an Albion squad that will be far worse than any of a number of SoCal HS teams.  I am sorry Las Vegas, but if you don't have enough good youth players to play elite soccer locally, that is your problem and you need to be the ones doing the traveling.
> 
> And, as others have alluded to, US Soccer completely misses the point with respect to the actual benefits of soccer at the youth level.  There are, what, 20 players on a WC roster?  That's fewer than 2 persons per birth year on average between the ages of the youngest and oldest players on the team.  US Soccer is creating a youth system that is intended to benefit fewer than 2 of the almost 2 million women born in the U.S. every year - plus Macario.  Yet two people in just one family (Ellejustus') benefited from the system that US Soccer seeks to destroy.  Especially on the girls' side, youth soccer is a pathway to educational opportunities for thousands of kids every year that would otherwise be out of reach, whether that's just getting a kid through HS, staying grade eligible in HS, or getting into Stanford or UCLA (and maybe scholarship money) instead of going to a JC or passing up college completely because people need to eat to live. Why is all this crazy nonsense happening?  Because US Soccer finds it inconvenient scouting kids at lots of tournaments like in the old days.  GDA makes it much easier to find all the best U14 girls, who will either fizzle out as they get older or will prove themselves in college and would have been found anyway at an age that actually matters.


Again great message and 100% on point.  Now this is a message that needs to be read.  See your posts can have an impact and not be a woe is us post.


----------



## MarkM

MakeAPlay said:


> http://www.coastsoccer.com/2006/sG190P.htm
> 
> This link is from Alex Morgan's senior year.  She was on the Cypress Elite team.  Click on the yellow cards and you can see her referred to as Alexandra Morgan (who by the way started club soccer at 14 which would be "too late" under GDA desires because she was a multi-sport athlete).


I read your comments on this issue, but I don't get it.  Isn't the question:  How good would Morgan have been if she concentrated on soccer at a younger age and improving her technique?  Same question for Mace.  If you can honestly say that they would not have been materially better soccer players, I get the criticism.  But I don't think you have ever offered opinion, which would be difficult to support.


----------



## MarkM

End of the Line said:


> The better solution is for US Soccer to get out of the youth soccer business and just let different regions do what works best for them.  There is one thing that makes for a great WNT, and one thing only, which is that more of a country's kids play it, and play it more often over more years.  That's it.  And that happens when a sport is fun and accessible.  US Soccer, however, is driving people out of the sport in droves because they take the fun out of it and make it too expensive for most to play it at a remotely high level.  If US Soccer succeeds, every really good youth soccer player with any potential will need to start buying plane tickets to fly all over the country 10 months a year if they already aren't.  If Cordeiro were sincere about making soccer more affordable as he claims in the NYT article, he would start by paying for everyone's hotel and plane ticket to Vegas to beat the s**t out of an Albion squad that will be far worse than any of a number of SoCal HS teams.  I am sorry Las Vegas, but if you don't have enough good youth players to play elite soccer locally, that is your problem and you need to be the ones doing the traveling.
> 
> And, as others have alluded to, US Soccer completely misses the point with respect to the actual benefits of soccer at the youth level.  There are, what, 20 players on a WC roster?  That's fewer than 2 persons per birth year on average between the ages of the youngest and oldest players on the team.  US Soccer is creating a youth system that is intended to benefit fewer than 2 of the almost 2 million women born in the U.S. every year - plus Macario.  Yet two people in just one family (Ellejustus') benefited from the system that US Soccer seeks to destroy.  Especially on the girls' side, youth soccer is a pathway to educational opportunities for thousands of kids every year that would otherwise be out of reach, whether that's just getting a kid through HS, staying grade eligible in HS, or getting into Stanford or UCLA (and maybe scholarship money) instead of going to a JC or passing up college completely because people need to eat to live. Why is all this crazy nonsense happening?  Because US Soccer finds it inconvenient scouting kids at lots of tournaments like in the old days.  GDA makes it much easier to find all the best U14 girls, who will either fizzle out as they get older or will prove themselves in college and would have been found anyway at an age that actually matters.


How is youth soccer a pathway to educational opportunities for thousands of kids every year that would otherwise be out of reach?  That sounds nice, but is it true?  It seems like youth soccer is a bunch of middle class to upper middle class families whose kids are going to college no matter what.  Let's be honest, no one with real financial struggles signs up for ECNL or DA.


----------



## dk_b

MarkM said:


> I read your comments on this issue, but I don't get it.  Isn't the question:  How good would Morgan have been if she concentrated on soccer at a younger age and improving her technique?  Same question for Mace.  If you can honestly say that they would not have been materially better soccer players, I get the criticism.  But I don't think you have ever offered opinion, which would be difficult to support.


I take it that you are saying they would be materially better if they had specialized earlier.  Just like discussing the opposite, it is speculation.  If they had played earlier, perhaps they would have burned out, they would have been injured, they would have struggled so much or put so much pressure on themselves to be good that they would have moved on to another sport (since both are talented athletes).  

At any event - GDA, ECNL, ODP, PDP (up here in NorCal) - we see talented players who play a very narrow (often it is very direct, taking advantage of speed or physical size).  So many coaches want to coach that talented player and believe that they (the coaches) can be the ones to teach them tactics, discipline, the finer skills.  And some of those kids NEVER learn.  You will see them at 14 and 16 and they are the same kids they were at 10 or 12.  Of course, we'd rarely see a kid like that on the national team unless that one characteristic - say BLAZING speed or incredible strength - will be limiting as the player gets older if she does not develop a more well-rounded game.  Maybe moving to competitive at the advanced age of 14 actually allowed Morgan to develop other athletic - perhaps non-soccer - skills that have allowed her to succeed as a goal-scorer.  Sure we can pick apart her game but that strikes me as silly - she's on the best goal-scorers ever (no debate on that).  If someone said that your child would be one of the game's greats, beloved by fans, dozens or hundreds of caps, multiple goals in a world cup but she would not be a well-rounded player . . .  would you take it?  Put another way:  aren't we sort of quibbling when we think about how much "better" Morgan or Mace MIGHT have been since we are really talking about marginal possibilities that these supremely talented players would be better than they are now?


----------



## End of the Line

MakeAPlay said:


> Again great message and 100% on point.  Now this is a message that needs to be read.  See your posts can have an impact and not be a woe is us post.


It's a real shame that so many people have blocked me....


----------



## LASTMAN14

MarkM said:


> How is youth soccer a pathway to educational opportunities for thousands of kids every year that would otherwise be out of reach?  That sounds nice, but is it true?  It seems like youth soccer is a bunch of middle class to upper middle class families whose kids are going to college no matter what.  Let's be honest, no one with real financial struggles signs up for ECNL or DA.


In response to your last sentence. Are you saying that the children whose families have the means to afford a college education have no desire to perpetuate their game?


----------



## soccerobserver

MarkM said:


> How is youth soccer a pathway to educational opportunities for thousands of kids every year that would otherwise be out of reach?  That sounds nice, but is it true?  It seems like youth soccer is a bunch of middle class to upper middle class families whose kids are going to college no matter what.  Let's be honest, no one with real financial struggles signs up for ECNL or DA.


MM, may I submit that amazing college scholarship opportunities come from many more places than just ECNL and GDA in Socal soccer. As EOL correctly states, soccer is a fantastic way for girls/women to get into college.

I personally have seen one kid with a drug addicted mother and no Dad who got a full ride to a great college and who generated more interest from colleges than any other player on our team (mainly because she was good but she also wrote to more colleges than anyone else because she had to). She was the first in her family to ever attend college. Another got a full ride and she was also the first in her family to attend college. Family was also poor financially. Our team was not ECNL and was only in CSL Premier in the last season. We had a mix of wealthy families at one end and very poor families on the other end. Players on both ends of the financial spectrum got to play soccer in college without ECNL or GDA.


----------



## Ellejustus

How about this:  I have a picture of my dd when she was 11 with face paint of the USA all over her and her mother in 2015 watching the world cup in Vancouver in person.  We saved our $$ so they could go.  She dreamed as a little girl to play for our great country.  I remember when I was young and I wanted to play professional baseball.  I went to Angles games dreaming of playing out there.  Then in 9th grade, US Baseball said the world is catching up so we need you to play 10 months out of the year now.  You can't play pony league anymore.  We have a new league that is focusing more on the development side, like the fine art of bunting, hitting and throwing. All participates get to start 25% of the time because that's not fair to have someone not start. We won't keep score anymore either.  Oh and by the way, you can't play HS Baseball either.  WTF!!!!!


----------



## End of the Line

MarkM said:


> How is youth soccer a pathway to educational opportunities for thousands of kids every year that would otherwise be out of reach?  That sounds nice, but is it true?  It seems like youth soccer is a bunch of middle class to upper middle class families whose kids are going to college no matter what.  Let's be honest, no one with real financial struggles signs up for ECNL or DA.


Although MAP and I are clearly on our way to making up with each other, I gotta say we're not there yet.  Your post is just so stupid I don't even know where to start.  I gave you two examples from just one family in my earlier post. More importantly, you answered your own question.  Like you said, the rich kids who already play ECNL and DA are already going to college no matter what, and that holds true even if they don't play soccer.  Rich kids do not need soccer to go to a good college.  But kids who can't afford to fly to CO to see it snow for the first time while their soccer games get cancelled have far fewer options available to them.


----------



## BigSoccer

Question and a point of view.  If Albion is the new club in DA, how do you know they will not be competitive.  I have read they have strong 05 and 06 teams in other posts.  Who knows about the others?
Point..  college does not start and end at UCLA or USC or DI.  What about the kids who dream of playing and are less well off who attend an NAIA school. My daughter is not on a top team an she knows it.  She is good not great but plays hard.  She wants to play in college and gets good grades.  Are you saying the emails she is sending DIII and NAIA schools should stop as she has not shot?


----------



## MarkM

End of the Line said:


> Although MAP and I are clearly on our way to making up with each other, I gotta say we're not there yet.  Your post is just so stupid I don't even know where to start.  I gave you two examples from just one family in my earlier post. More importantly, you answered your own question.  Like you said, the rich kids who already play ECNL and DA are already going to college no matter what, and that holds true even if they don't play soccer.  Rich kids do not need soccer to go to a good college.  But kids who can't afford to fly to CO to see it snow for the first time while their soccer games get cancelled have far fewer options available to them.


I agree that travel is dumb.  That wasn't my question.  Can you point me to your examples?  The only thing I saw was a reference to Ellejustus, who admits to having the resources.  I missed how those are relevant to my question.


----------



## Ellejustus

We need to throw money at the US Professional league.  My dd would skip playing in college if the average player made at least $50K and got a 5 year deal plus pay for her tuition at the local JC and then a local 4 year.  Get her degree while she plays professionally.  I already asked her and it was a loud yes.  Or, she could get a full ride and play in college if she's not good enough.  All nice options.  The money is going to the wrong people.


----------



## MakeAPlay

End of the Line said:


> It's a real shame that so many people have blocked me....


When you are right you are right....  You were never offensive and I would never block someone simply because I don't agree with everything that they say.  Otherwise @Sheriff Joe would have been blocked a long time ago.  I welcome differing opinions when they are well reasoned and backed up by a well thought out argument.  You are nothing if not eloquent.


----------



## MarkM

dk_b said:


> I take it that you are saying they would be materially better if they had specialized earlier.  Just like discussing the opposite, it is speculation.  If they had played earlier, perhaps they would have burned out, they would have been injured, they would have struggled so much or put so much pressure on themselves to be good that they would have moved on to another sport (since both are talented athletes).
> 
> At any event - GDA, ECNL, ODP, PDP (up here in NorCal) - we see talented players who play a very narrow (often it is very direct, taking advantage of speed or physical size).  So many coaches want to coach that talented player and believe that they (the coaches) can be the ones to teach them tactics, discipline, the finer skills.  And some of those kids NEVER learn.  You will see them at 14 and 16 and they are the same kids they were at 10 or 12.  Of course, we'd rarely see a kid like that on the national team unless that one characteristic - say BLAZING speed or incredible strength - will be limiting as the player gets older if she does not develop a more well-rounded game.  Maybe moving to competitive at the advanced age of 14 actually allowed Morgan to develop other athletic - perhaps non-soccer - skills that have allowed her to succeed as a goal-scorer.  Sure we can pick apart her game but that strikes me as silly - she's on the best goal-scorers ever (no debate on that).  If someone said that your child would be one of the game's greats, beloved by fans, dozens or hundreds of caps, multiple goals in a world cup but she would not be a well-rounded player . . .  would you take it?  Put another way:  aren't we sort of quibbling when we think about how much "better" Morgan or Mace MIGHT have been since we are really talking about marginal possibilities that these supremely talented players would be better than they are now?


I didn't choose the examples.  Those examples are the best argument for one side of the debate.  But even for those examples, the relevant question is how much better they would be and whether the extra effort is really worth it.  I'm sure Mace would second guess not focusing earlier if she doesn't make a world cup team.  She'll have to ask herself whether HS volleyball was worth it.  The margins are very small.  

And if you are really arguing that playing less soccer is going to make you a better soccer player, I don't know what to say.  I guess I could argue that that allowing my kid to play more video games instead of studying will make him a better student.  It is possible, right?  Under some theory?  Of course, there are plenty of kids that went to Harvard that spent too much time playing video games in high school.  But I wouldn't use them as an example of good study habits for my kids.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MarkM said:


> I read your comments on this issue, but I don't get it.  Isn't the question:  How good would Morgan have been if she concentrated on soccer at a younger age and improving her technique?  Same question for Mace.  If you can honestly say that they would not have been materially better soccer players, I get the criticism.  But I don't think you have ever offered opinion, which would be difficult to support.


I think that she both are amazing athletes that play soccer.  I do think that they could be and should be better (for different reasons).  My only opinion when it comes to US Soccer is this:

1. They shouldn't have splintered the leagues
2.  They should support ODP or some version of it, meaning: Have a pool of players from each state association practice regularly (maybe one weekend a month or so) and then put together a regional team for the 4 regions and have them practice quarterly and from those pools of players pick a YNT.
3.  They should put funds into NWSL and these state and regional pools.
4.  Players that are willing to go all in on soccer are more than welcome to but they shouldn't MAKE kids do it.  Many of our WNT were multisport athletes.  That is becoming much more difficult.

I think that you can train for a sport from an early age but not go all in.  That should be saved for high school or later.  North Carolina's keeper this year is also on the basketball team there.  I just think that US Soccer should be interested in the whole person not just what they can get out of them.  Nobody is going to argue that it is better for a young athlete to crosstrain.

So yes Alex Morgan might have been a slightly better soccer player by being a specialist at 10 but she might not have had the drive required (one sport burnout is real).  Even Kobe Bryant played soccer.  Bo Jackson played everything and even Frank Thomas played football at Auburn.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MarkM

soccerobserver said:


> MM, may I submit that amazing college scholarship opportunities come from many more places than just ECNL and GDA in Socal soccer. As EOL correctly states, soccer is a fantastic way for girls/women to get into college.
> 
> I personally have seen one kid with a drug addicted mother and no Dad who got a full ride to a great college and who generated more interest from colleges than any other player on our team (mainly because she was good but she also wrote to more colleges than anyone else because she had to). She was the first in her family to ever attend college. Another got a full ride and she was also the first in her family to attend college. Family was also poor financially. Our team was not ECNL and was only in CSL Premier in the last season. We had a mix of wealthy families at one end and very poor families on the other end. Players on both ends of the financial spectrum got to play soccer in college without ECNL or GDA.


That's wonderful to hear.


----------



## Ellejustus

MarkM said:


> I agree that travel is dumb.  That wasn't my question.  Can you point me to your examples?  The only thing I saw was a reference to Ellejustus, who admits to having the resources.  I missed how those are relevant to my question.


It's still a gamble I don't want to take and I didn't last season.  Stayed home from all trips as did my kid.  Depending on the coach and the parents in OC it can get freaking expensive.  It costs $6,000-$9,000 a year x 4= $35K+ because some of us have lots of $$$ to travel with.  I don't and we chose to stay home.  This new season after seeing my dd grades, our family has decided to invest some more $$$$ she can have her college paid for.  We love the new rules.  Don't bug us until next year and then she will take her time and visit some schools she's interested in.  Then she will take a walk on the beach and make a big decision on her own.  I can't wait


----------



## MakeAPlay

BigSoccer said:


> Question and a point of view.  If Albion is the new club in DA, how do you know they will not be competitive.  I have read they have strong 05 and 06 teams in other posts.  Who knows about the others?
> Point..  college does not start and end at UCLA or USC or DI.  What about the kids who dream of playing and are less well off who attend an NAIA school. My daughter is not on a top team an she knows it.  She is good not great but plays hard.  She wants to play in college and gets good grades.  Are you saying the emails she is sending DIII and NAIA schools should stop as she has not shot?


As I have said many. many times.  Any player who has the desire to play in college and are willing to work for it can get there.  There are many roads to Rome....


----------



## End of the Line

MarkM said:


> I agree that travel is dumb.  That wasn't my question.  Can you point me to your examples?  The only thing I saw was a reference to Ellejustus, who admits to having the resources.  I missed how those are relevant to my question.


Sure. Hailey, Haylie, Hayley, and Emma.


----------



## MarkM

MakeAPlay said:


> I think that she both are amazing athletes that play soccer.  I do think that they could be and should be better (for different reasons).  My only opinion when it comes to US Soccer is this:
> 
> 1. They shouldn't have splintered the leagues
> 2.  They should support ODP or some version of it, meaning: Have a pool of players from each state association practice regularly (maybe one weekend a month or so) and then put together a regional team for the 4 regions and have them practice quarterly and from those pools of players pick a YNT.
> 3.  They should put funds into NWSL and these state and regional pools.
> 4.  Players that are willing to go all in on soccer are more than welcome to but they shouldn't MAKE kids do it.  Many of our WNT were multisport athletes.  That is becoming much more difficult.
> 
> I think that you can train for a sport from an early age but not go all in.  That should be saved for high school or later.  North Carolina's keeper this year is also on the basketball team there.  I just think that US Soccer should be interested in the whole person not just what they can get out of them.  Nobody is going to argue that it is better for a young athlete to crosstrain.
> 
> So yes Alex Morgan might have been a slightly better soccer player by being a specialist at 10 but she might not have had the drive required (one sport burnout is real).  Even Kobe Bryant played soccer.  Bo Jackson played everything and even Frank Thomas played football at Auburn.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


Nice post.  Can't really say I disagree.  Maybe we overemphasize the technical aspect of soccer.  Some sports and some positions in those sports, don't require much more than great athleticism.  The less technique they require, the longer you can wait.  That said, I always presumed that you believed the US is losing ground because it is too reliant on athleticism.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MarkM said:


> Nice post.  Can't really say I disagree.  Maybe we overemphasize the technical aspect of soccer.  Some sports and some positions in those sports, don't require much more than great athleticism.  The less technique they require, the longer you can wait.  That said, I always presumed that you believed the US is losing ground because it is too reliant on athleticism.


I think that we should spend more time on identifying the best when they are the best not when they are 12 or 14.  We shouldn't designate people as something and then try to make it happen.  We should invest the money into the grassroots identification and into our highest levels since, in my opinion, that is where the money can do the most good.  We were solid if not outstanding technically.  The real problem is tactics and personnel.  Our superior athleticism has rescued us.  I think that if we invest in the youth ranks and let the coaches be supported and rewarded for developing players that are technical and tactical on top of athletic, then we will reign supreme in WoSo for many years to come.  We had a huge lead but we are still capable of maintaining it.


----------



## MarkM

End of the Line said:


> Sure. Hailey, Haylie, Hayley, and Emma.
> 
> As a matter of policy, I do not provide information that might allow the people who don't like me to beat the crap out of me. There are enough who already know where I live. But I don't need to provide examples, because what I say is true and everyone but you has the brain power to understand it.


Huh?  I'm just looking for generic evidence that would suggest that these leagues facilitate actual educational opportunities that would not otherwise have been provided.  I get the knocks on the DA system and the reality of national team crap.  But the other side that is presented about education opportunities appears to be a lot of PR spin.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> Those teams were 03/04.  These two are good teams but they play in a very watered down developmental league.


Aren’t most leagues watered down now?  But I don’t agree with the fact you’re discounting the strength of the Quakes ‘04 team.   

I don’t think you’ve played them in over 2 years.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> I would much rather get a report from a college coach telling us what our kids need to do to get a full ride.  This report is a joke imo.  Were the ones paying, unless of course your with a fully funded program .  The DA offers 25% guarantee starts and fully funded in some parts.  Why walk from that when your club was not at "The Party" two years ago.  Plus, the high school your kid goes to sucks so you don't give a flip.  Every time I talk to a parent from the DA argument, they always say "HS Soccer sucks."  I say, "where does your little sweet one go to HS?"  "They go to so and so HS."  I say, "oh."  But if you could read my mind, "No wonder.  Your HS sucks, really, it does."


Of your DD’s HS sucked for soccer, would you care as much?


----------



## LASTMAN14

Kicker4Life said:


> Aren’t most leagues watered down now?  But I don’t agree with the fact you’re discounting the strength of the Quakes ‘04 team.
> 
> I don’t think you’ve played them in over 2 years.


That Quakes team along with the MVLA 04 team are exceptional.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Of your DD’s HS sucked for soccer, would you care as much?


Not sure the Q.  She's going to Volleyball tryouts tmrw at a very tough school.  She's been practicing her serving.  Don't have time to juggle right now.  Her HS is awesome


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Of your DD’s HS sucked for soccer, would you care as much?


She also ran varsity track.  Did well for her first time in the 100 meters and 400 relay team.  She wants to that again


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> Not sure the Q.  She's going to Volleyball tryouts tmrw at a very tough school.  She's been practicing her serving.  Don't have time to juggle right now.  Her HS is awesome


OK let me clarify. If your daughters high school wasn’t very good in soccer would you be as concerned about DEA not allowing high school play? Your point in your post was that most people that don’t care about high school is because their high school sucks in soccer so I wanted to ask a question if you were in that position would you care as much about it?

I know her high school is awesome.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> OK let me clarify. If your daughters high school wasn’t very good in soccer would you be as concerned about DEA not allowing high school play? Your point in your post was that most people that don’t care about high school is because their high school sucks in soccer so I wanted to ask a question if you were in that position would you care as much about it?
> 
> I know her high school is awesome.


Gotcha.  It wouldn't matter because she wants to be on the track team, surf team, ASB and volleyball team.  DA schedule and requirements is the problem my friend


----------



## Dos Equis

Kicker4Life said:


> Aren’t most leagues watered down now?


We here in Socal have managed to let US Soccer (DA), DOC egos (ECNL), coaches who are not held accountable and convinced people results do not matter (SCDSL), and a bunch of lemming parents, dilute everything to the point that this whole conversation is part tragedy, part comedy, and mostly a farce. 

People are analyzing the results of Surf Cup to determine league strength . . . are you kidding me?  Surf Cup, while extraordinarily well-run, is not even of the caliber of a Slammers Invitational, West Coast Futbol Classic, or even decent Memorial Day tournament from only 10 years ago (before ECNL). And SilverLakes is just more of the same.  Ten years ago, getting into and playing in Surf was something kids put on their athletic resume.  This year, the brackets included AYSO teams. 

Sorry to burst some bubbles, but people on this board are playing around in the dirt, in the shadow of the ruins of the Roman Colosseum, arguing over who has built a better sand castle.


----------



## End of the Line

Dos Equis said:


> We here in Socal have managed to let US Soccer (DA), DOC egos (ECNL), coaches who are not held accountable and convinced people results do not matter (SCDSL), and a bunch of lemming parents, dilute everything to the point that this whole conversation is part tragedy, part comedy, and mostly a farce.
> 
> People are analyzing the results of Surf Cup to determine league strength . . . are you kidding me?  Surf Cup, while extraordinarily well-run, is not even of the caliber of a Slammers Invitational, West Coast Futbol Classic, or even decent Memorial Day tournament from only 10 years ago (before ECNL). And SilverLakes is just more of the same.  Ten years ago, getting into and playing in Surf was something kids put on their athletic resume.  This year, the brackets included AYSO teams.
> 
> Sorry to burst some bubbles, but people on this board are playing around in the dirt, in the shadow of the ruins of the Roman Colosseum, arguing over who has built a better sand castle.


Ooh, I really like that last sentence.


----------



## dk_b

Dos Equis said:


> Sorry to burst some bubbles, but people on this board are playing around in the dirt, in the shadow of the ruins of the Roman Colosseum, arguing over who has built a better sand castle.


Now I now that we in NorCal can’t compete with the depth of athletic talent in SoCal but we can build some amazing sand castles. I think there’s some special humidity up here. Explains our sourdough, too.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kicker4Life said:


> Of your DD’s HS sucked for soccer, would you care as much?


My daughter’ High school was bad to average and she only played one playoff game in four years but she is still friends with more of those girls than of her club teammates.


----------



## MakeAPlay

End of the Line said:


> Ooh, I really like that last sentence.


He is really, really good at this...


----------



## Kicker4Life

MakeAPlay said:


> My daughter’ High school was bad to average and she only played one playoff game in four years but she is still friends with more of those girls than of her club teammates.


You think she would have forgone playing HS if ECNL had set up like DA and said No HS?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dos Equis said:


> We here in Socal have managed to let US Soccer (DA), DOC egos (ECNL), coaches who are not held accountable and convinced people results do not matter (SCDSL), and a bunch of lemming parents, dilute everything to the point that this whole conversation is part tragedy, part comedy, and mostly a farce.
> 
> People are analyzing the results of Surf Cup to determine league strength . . . are you kidding me?  Surf Cup, while extraordinarily well-run, is not even of the caliber of a Slammers Invitational, West Coast Futbol Classic, or even decent Memorial Day tournament from only 10 years ago (before ECNL). And SilverLakes is just more of the same.  Ten years ago, getting into and playing in Surf was something kids put on their athletic resume.  This year, the brackets included AYSO teams.
> 
> Sorry to burst some bubbles, but people on this board are playing around in the dirt, in the shadow of the ruins of the Roman Colosseum, arguing over who has built a better sand castle.


As usual your succinct eloquence shines through.  When my daughter first got into club soccer all she wanted was to be good enough to get to play in Surf Cup.  The level of play was phenomenal.

I remember the old conversations about which teams (other than Surf White and Surf Blue) got into Surf Cup.  I remember that the only other guarantee that you were going to get invited was to make the semifinals of National Cup!  My daughter was so happy when her team made the semifinals her U13 season and all that she cared about was that she would finally get to play in Surf Cup (I had been dragging her there the previous 3 years just to see what the level of competition was).

These rookie parents have no idea what the golden age of soccer here in SoCal looked like....


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kicker4Life said:


> You think she would have forgone playing HS if ECNL had set up like DA and said No HS?


No.  I tried to convince her not to play and it worked for the first month of her junior year.  Some kids have a clear set of priorities and my daughter is still really close to a lot of her friends from high school even though almost none are still playing.  They come to watch her play though and they visit her often.  The reason that she isn’t home right now is that she is hanging out with her friends before she heads back to school on Saturday.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MakeAPlay said:


> No.  I tried to convince her not to play and it worked for the first month of her junior year.  Some kids have a clear set of priorities and my daughter is still really close to a lot of her friends from high school even though almost none are still playing.  They come to watch her play though and they visit her often.  The reason that she isn’t home right now is that she is hanging out with her friends before she heads back to school on Saturday.


Thanks for the insight!


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> As usual your succinct eloquence shines through.  When my daughter first got into club soccer all she wanted was to be good enough to get to play in Surf Cup.  The level of play was phenomenal.
> 
> I remember the old conversations about which teams (other than Surf White and Surf Blue) got into Surf Cup.  I remember that the only other guarantee that you were going to get invited was to make the semifinals of National Cup!  My daughter was so happy when her team made the semifinals her U13 season and all that she cared about was that she would finally get to play in Surf Cup (I had been dragging her there the previous 3 years just to see what the level of competition was).
> 
> These rookie parents have no idea what the golden age of soccer here in SoCal looked like....


My dd team was probably the last true "Best of the Best" winner at Surf Cup.  I think 2016 Blues team.  Our lovely friends at US Soccer decided to change the age group and $urf Cup $ports was started and here we are.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Ellejustus said:


> Gotcha.  It wouldn't matter because she wants to be on the track team, surf team, ASB and volleyball team.  DA schedule and requirements is the problem my friend


I’m confused. What exactly were you upset about DA. Because I thought your daughter played ECNL.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> My dd team was probably the last true "Best of the Best" winner at Surf Cup.  I think 2016 Blues team.  Our lovely friends at US Soccer decided to change the age group and $urf Cup $ports was started and here we are.


Accept Surf Cup Sports took control of the Polo Fields in 2012 so they had to exist prior to 2016.  Can’t blame that on US Soccer, just Capitalism.


----------



## Dubs

Ellejustus said:


> Gotcha.  It wouldn't matter because she wants to be on the track team, surf team, ASB and volleyball team.  DA schedule and requirements is the problem my friend


I'm not defending DA in any way, but ECNL schedule would be too much too.  For my DD's ECNL team, they train almost as much and play more games.  The only difference is that they shut down in winter for HS soccer.  DD also runs track and XCountry, but if there is a conflict with those HS sports and her ECNL soccer team, it is 100% expected she come to the soccer which she does.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dubs said:


> I'm not defending DA in any way, but ECNL schedule would be too much too.  For my DD's ECNL team, they train almost as much and play more games.  The only difference is that they shut down in winter for HS soccer.  DD also runs track and XCountry, but if there is a conflict with those HS sports and her ECNL soccer team, it is 100% expected she come to the soccer which she does.


I remember those days.  My player qualified for CIF in 4 events every year that she competed but she only got to compete in one event (the relay) one of her years due to soccer conflicts.  I knew that she had chosen soccer when her freshman year she ran in the relay of the CIF Prelims and then told me to hurry up so that I could get her to her soccer game against the top team in her division and she absolutely wasn't going to miss it.  She loved running track but it was definitely second to her club team.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> My dd team was probably the last true "Best of the Best" winner at Surf Cup.  I think 2016 Blues team.  Our lovely friends at US Soccer decided to change the age group and $urf Cup $ports was started and here we are.


My daughter's club team never finished higher than 4th in the Southwest Division and missed the Champions League Playoffs her last two seasons (they made it in her U15 and U16 seasons).  She was never on the best team but she always played against them and in my opinion it helped her development.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Accept Surf Cup Sports took control of the Polo Fields in 2012 so they had to exist prior to 2016.  Can’t blame that on US Soccer, just Capitalism.


Let me rephrase, when $urf Cup $ports really got going, got Oceanside built and signed a 5 year contract with US Soccer.  I love capitalism.  This was not.  Trust me.  This was the swamp.  Crazy stuff and when your kid is personally affected by it you take it personal.  I'm letting some steam out as you know.  I know some might think were sore losers.  This whole thing is a shit show and you know it.  Capitalism my ass  I think my dd and I can speak in this space from being in the middle of the epicenter.  I have lots to say on this subject but I better stop.  I"ll try and keep it civil.  Here are just a few quotes from our great youth director.  I will try and interrupt her.  

*"Anson Dorrance has meant a lot for American women’s soccer and I know he is an icon in the USA. I have a lot respect for what he has done for American women’s soccer in the past. He could be seen as one of the pioneers. But I do not always agree with his point of view." * Too old and way past your prime old timer * 
"Our best players are all over the place. They are frequently taught different soccer languages which often contradict each other. It’s club, high school, college, personal trainers, parents, etc. The rules and standards are different in all of these systems."* True Dat
*"Some clubs have just become good at recruiting the best players but not in developing." * Can you say Tad Bobak, Dodge, Bakers  
"Eventually the best players have to be training with and playing against the best players. With high quality coaching."  *They were, WTF happened? I think she might be a spy for Netherlands.  Go over to the US and completely change the soccer landscape.
"High School is not really a discussion for us if you understand the concept of talent development from an international perspective. Soccer is a global sport."*  No comment
*" Therefore the Development Academy is not a league, it’s a program to develop world-class players." * So you had to put a fork in HS Soccer and tell ECNL to pound sand.  Is this capitalism?  DA does not exist without Surf.  Why does Surf have three DA teams now in SoCal?


----------



## Ellejustus

Dubs said:


> I'm not defending DA in any way, but ECNL schedule would be too much too.  For my DD's ECNL team, they train almost as much and play more games.  The only difference is that they shut down in winter for HS soccer.  DD also runs track and XCountry, but if there is a conflict with those HS sports and her ECNL soccer team, it is 100% expected she come to the soccer which she does.


Our team pracrices Mon & Wednesday.  7-8:30.  10 minutes from fields.  No problemo for my kid


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> My daughter's club team never finished higher than 4th in the Southwest Division and missed the Champions League Playoffs her last two seasons (they made it in her U15 and U16 seasons).  She was never on the best team but she always played against them and in my opinion it helped her development.


Both are good if you have the right coach and players (friends) around you.  Those days are going away sadly


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> Both are good if you have the right coach and players (friends) around you.  Those days are going away sadly


I agree.  Her last year it was more like a team of mercenaries than a group of friends like it had been for her 6 years with her prior club team.  She was lucky that she had two good coaches for all but 3 of her club seasons.


----------



## Dubs

MakeAPlay said:


> I remember those days.  My player qualified for CIF in 4 events every year that she competed but she only got to compete in one event (the relay) one of her years due to soccer conflicts.  I knew that she had chosen soccer when her freshman year she ran in the relay of the CIF Prelims and then told me to hurry up so that I could get her to her soccer game against the top team in her division and she absolutely wasn't going to miss it.  She loved running track but it was definitely second to her club team.


My girl same boat.  Each year she's run track and cross country, her times qualify her to make it to CIF, but the finals are always on a date that conflicts with both Phoenix ECNL showcases.  She would've gone to state in track this last year, but gives it up for the love of being on the pitch.


----------



## Dubs

Ellejustus said:


> Our team pracrices Mon & Wednesday.  7-8:30.  10 minutes from fields.  No problemo for my kid


Only twice per week?  Your DD must be on the young side.  When my DD was younger (before U14 ECNL), we only practiced twice per week and had an "optional" clinic which every girl went to.  IMO, this is a much better structure so you don't create any burn out and the kids are getting joy out of the training.  In addition, the coaches expect that you will be working with the ball on your own when not at structured practice.


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> Our team pracrices Mon & Wednesday.  7-8:30.  10 minutes from fields.  No problemo for my kid


Plus most games occur during the week.


Dubs said:


> Only twice per week?  Your DD must be on the young side.  When my DD was younger (before U14 ECNL), we only practiced twice per week and had an "optional" clinic which every girl went to.  IMO, this is a much better structure so you don't create any burn out and the kids are getting joy out of the training.  In addition, the coaches expect that you will be working with the ball on your own when not at structured practice.


U16.  Our coach gets it.  Its called a balance in life for High School age kids.  Super grateful for him.


----------



## watfly

Dos Equis said:


> We here in Socal have managed to let US Soccer (DA), DOC egos (ECNL), coaches who are not held accountable and convinced people results do not matter (SCDSL), and a bunch of lemming parents, dilute everything to the point that this whole conversation is part tragedy, part comedy, and mostly a farce.
> 
> People are analyzing the results of Surf Cup to determine league strength . . . are you kidding me?  Surf Cup, while extraordinarily well-run, is not even of the caliber of a Slammers Invitational, West Coast Futbol Classic, or even decent Memorial Day tournament from only 10 years ago (before ECNL). And SilverLakes is just more of the same.  Ten years ago, getting into and playing in Surf was something kids put on their athletic resume.  This year, the brackets included AYSO teams.
> 
> Sorry to burst some bubbles, but people on this board are playing around in the dirt, in the shadow of the ruins of the Roman Colosseum, arguing over who has built a better sand castle.


Can't comment on the girl's side, but on the boy's side my son is going into his sixth year of club (not that long as compared to many of you here).  In five years he has played Presidio, SDDA, SCDSL and DA.  You know what the difference was between those leagues?  Basically no difference.  All had good teams and bad teams, good players and not so good players, good fields and barely playable fields, good refs and poor refs etc.  Since he has been playing, various other leagues have been added to the SoCal youth landscape including Discovery, Boy's ECNL, NPL West, UPSL Youth and Super Y... it's insanity.  Regardless of the league, the coaches and the clubs are still the same.   The league effectively has little bearing on the development of your kid, only the draining of your wallet.

My son has chosen to play DA.  We believe it generally has the better players on average.  To date my son has developed more by playing with better players than he has developed from coaching.  (That's partially due to how he learns and partially due to the competency of some of his coaches).  I'm cautiously optimistic, but not holding my breath, that his new DA club and coach will have a greater impact on his development.  The club has a very defined curriculum allegedly developed with the guidance of Double Pass.  Time will tell if this curriculum works for my kid, but regardless there is no perfect situation.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> Let me rephrase, when $urf Cup $ports really got going, got Oceanside built and signed a 5 year contract with US Soccer.  I love capitalism.  This was not.  Trust me.  This was the swamp.  Crazy stuff and when your kid is personally affected by it you take it personal.  I'm letting some steam out as you know.  I know some might think were sore losers.  This whole thing is a shit show and you know it.  Capitalism my ass  I think my dd and I can speak in this space from being in the middle of the epicenter.  I have lots to say on this subject but I better stop.  I"ll try and keep it civil.  Here are just a few quotes from our great youth director.  I will try and interrupt her.
> 
> *"Anson Dorrance has meant a lot for American women’s soccer and I know he is an icon in the USA. I have a lot respect for what he has done for American women’s soccer in the past. He could be seen as one of the pioneers. But I do not always agree with his point of view." * Too old and way past your prime old timer *
> "Our best players are all over the place. They are frequently taught different soccer languages which often contradict each other. It’s club, high school, college, personal trainers, parents, etc. The rules and standards are different in all of these systems."* True Dat
> *"Some clubs have just become good at recruiting the best players but not in developing." * Can you say Tad Bobak, Dodge, Bakers
> "Eventually the best players have to be training with and playing against the best players. With high quality coaching."  *They were, WTF happened? I think she might be a spy for Netherlands.  Go over to the US and completely change the soccer landscape.
> "High School is not really a discussion for us if you understand the concept of talent development from an international perspective. Soccer is a global sport."*  No comment
> *" Therefore the Development Academy is not a league, it’s a program to develop world-class players." * So you had to put a fork in HS Soccer and tell ECNL to pound sand.  Is this capitalism?  DA does not exist without Surf.  Why does Surf have three DA teams now in SoCal?


Can’t say my experience has been the same as yours.  I was always bitter at ECNL for not filling a LARGE geographical void yet having 4 Clubs that train writhing 10 miles of each other. 

We’ve been fortunate. I never bit on the Sales pitch from other Clubs. We were lucky to have a Coach that cared about the kids and followed him from a tiny Club (Sand & Surf) to a bigger organization Beach.  When the age change came, her Coach helped guide us in the changes and we were again fortunate to play for Coach Arrache whom she still plays for today. 

My DD enjoys her life outside of soccer, plays beach volleyball and makes time to be a kid. 

Everyone has their own path and as MAP said earlier, “there are many roads to Rome” so very true!

Did your add enjoy her time as a DP?  Would you let her do it again?  It was disappointing that the rules don’t allow for DP’s to participate in the Playoffs, but I can see their angle for not allowing it.


----------



## Lambchop

MakeAPlay said:


> I think that she both are amazing athletes that play soccer.  I do think that they could be and should be better (for different reasons).  My only opinion when it comes to US Soccer is this:
> 
> 1. They shouldn't have splintered the leagues
> 2.  They should support ODP or some version of it, meaning: Have a pool of players from each state association practice regularly (maybe one weekend a month or so) and then put together a regional team for the 4 regions and have them practice quarterly and from those pools of players pick a YNT.
> 3.  They should put funds into NWSL and these state and regional pools.
> 4.  Players that are willing to go all in on soccer are more than welcome to but they shouldn't MAKE kids do it.  Many of our WNT were multisport athletes.  That is becoming much more difficult.
> 
> I think that you can train for a sport from an early age but not go all in.  That should be saved for high school or later.  North Carolina's keeper this year is also on the basketball team there.  I just think that US Soccer should be interested in the whole person not just what they can get out of them.  Nobody is going to argue that it is better for a young athlete to crosstrain.
> 
> So yes Alex Morgan might have been a slightly better soccer player by being a specialist at 10 but she might not have had the drive required (one sport burnout is real).  Even Kobe Bryant played soccer.  Bo Jackson played everything and even Frank Thomas played football at Auburn.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


So many people assume that if you don't wear an "official" high school jersey you aren't playing another sport.  My kids played many sports outside of high school - tennis, surfing, golf, karate, swimming, and riding.  So interesting that people will quickly criticize a patch (ECNL or DA) but also don't realize the numerous options for our kids.  They loved the flexibility of outside sports as did we and the opportunity to make friends outside of their high school and club friends.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Lambchop said:


> So many people assume that if you don't wear an "official" high school jersey you aren't playing another sport.  My kids played many sports outside of high school - tennis, surfing, golf, karate, swimming, and riding.  So interesting that people will quickly criticize a patch (ECNL or DA) but also don't realize the numerous options for our kids.  They loved the flexibility of outside sports as did we and the opportunity to make friends outside of their high school and club friends.


I never criticize other outside sports (not even cheerleading that stuff is hard!).  My younger child is an archer which is about as non-traditional as it gets.  It's cool because it is one of the only true all ages Coed sports.  It also eats up my early Saturday mornings.

Just let the kids play.  Many of my fondest memories were playing sports.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Can’t say my experience has been the same as yours.  I was always bitter at ECNL for not filling a LARGE geographical void yet having 4 Clubs that train writhing 10 miles of each other.
> 
> We’ve been fortunate. I never bit on the Sales pitch from other Clubs. We were lucky to have a Coach that cared about the kids and followed him from a tiny Club (Sand & Surf) to a bigger organization Beach.  When the age change came, her Coach helped guide us in the changes and we were again fortunate to play for Coach Arrache whom she still plays for today.
> 
> My DD enjoys her life outside of soccer, plays beach volleyball and makes time to be a kid.
> 
> Everyone has their own path and as MAP said earlier, “there are many roads to Rome” so very true!
> 
> Did your add enjoy her time as a DP?  Would you let her do it again?  It was disappointing that the rules don’t allow for DP’s to participate in the Playoffs, but I can see their angle for not allowing it.


You and I and our dds go way back.  Keep in mind we lived in Temecula and were with Legends at the time (non ecnl).  We used to see the old wise man (TB) at our games.  Then we got the call.  To be honest with you, that was the best call I ever received by a coach.  No sales pitch with him.  He took all his teams from U11-U18.  If you kept up, you played another year.  No politics.  If you didn't measure up after playoffs, you got cut.  That was pure competition and many parents whined and complained as did I.  When Surf called now that was a different pitch.  Her time as DP (not really that) sucked.  She was eligible for playoffs but decided to go all in ECNL this year with a coach a few friends and she didn't want to be a "rent a player" for the DA playoffs this year.  And let me be clear.  I'm not saying if you go all in with the DA you don't have a life.  It sucks that both our kids can't battle against each other like before.  Plus I see some studs some haven't seen at ECNL.  One kid I knew back in the day is 5 10' now.  ECNL screwed Legends and Beach, no question.  Not fair and frankly one of the reasons were talking about this crap.


----------



## MarkM

Dubs said:


> I'm not defending DA in any way, but ECNL schedule would be too much too.  For my DD's ECNL team, they train almost as much and play more games.  The only difference is that they shut down in winter for HS soccer.  DD also runs track and XCountry, but if there is a conflict with those HS sports and her ECNL soccer team, it is 100% expected she come to the soccer which she does.


A very good player on the Blues DA team just won the CIF State championship in a distance event.  I think she is running and playing soccer at Oregon.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MarkM said:


> A very good player on the Blues DA team just won the CIF State championship in a distance event.  I think she is running and playing soccer at Oregon.


I believe my Dd met her at the ID camp few weeks ago, but I could be mistaken.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Can’t say my experience has been the same as yours.  I was always bitter at ECNL for not filling a LARGE geographical void yet having 4 Clubs that train writhing 10 miles of each other.
> 
> We’ve been fortunate. I never bit on the Sales pitch from other Clubs. We were lucky to have a Coach that cared about the kids and followed him from a tiny Club (Sand & Surf) to a bigger organization Beach.  When the age change came, her Coach helped guide us in the changes and we were again fortunate to play for Coach Arrache whom she still plays for today.
> 
> My DD enjoys her life outside of soccer, plays beach volleyball and makes time to be a kid.
> 
> Everyone has their own path and as MAP said earlier, “there are many roads to Rome” so very true!
> 
> Did your add enjoy her time as a DP?  Would you let her do it again?  It was disappointing that the rules don’t allow for DP’s to participate in the Playoffs, but I can see their angle for not allowing it.


Curious Q for you. If DA never came would  you have stayed at Beach and said no to ECNL clubs recruiting ur stud?


----------



## Dos Equis

Ellejustus said:


> ECNL screwed Legends and Beach, no question.  Not fair and frankly one of the reasons were talking about this crap.


I was not a fan of the closed system of ECNL and the impact it had on top level soccer in Socal.  But ECNL started in 2009.  Beach and Legends were young clubs, without top teams in every age group, and very short track records.  While I think ECNL (more accurately  Slammers and Surf protecting their recruiting pipelines) screwed parents in the South Bay/LA Basin and south San Diego by denying them a nearby club, there was no clear clubs to pick, initially.  Legends and Beach emerged as the "Best of the Rest", and frankly benefited from the success they achieved in a USYS world without the ECNL clubs.   

By the time 2014 came around, ECNL should have dropped Arsenal, Eagles and/or Strikers and added Legends and Beach.  Partly because they were the best of the rest, but also because both accountability and opportunity are important components of maintaining competitive leagues.


----------



## ToonArmy

Did ECNL come before SCDSL? My daughter got into club at u9 right at the time that club was going from a decent sized 1 location CSL club to joining a mega SCDSL club and we were told it was to get into the better league and have better opportunity for it's top players to play in ECNL. Within the next couple years that club swallowed up a whole lot of other clubs and I noticed that in our area there was hardly any more CSL teams. I don't know the history of ECNL and SCDSL but seems like they are partners in some way and both have a large hand in changing the landscape of socal soccers good ol days to what it is now long before DA screwed it up even more.


----------



## Dos Equis

ToonArmy said:


> Did ECNL come before SCDSL? My daughter got into club at u9 right at the time that club was going from a decent sized 1 location CSL club to joining a mega SCDSL club and we were told it was to get into the better league and have better opportunity for it's top players to play in ECNL. Within the next couple years that club swallowed up a whole lot of other clubs and I noticed that in our area there was hardly any more CSL teams. I don't know the history of ECNL and SCDSL but seems like they are partners in some way and both have a large hand in changing the landscape of socal soccers good ol days to what it is now long before DA screwed it up even more.


SCDSL started after ECNL for many reasons.  CSL required member clubs put their top teams in the CSL (so ECNL clubs had a conflict), CSL limited each club to 3 teams per age group, CSL had/has relegation and promotion that made it hard for coaches to underperform and keep teams together...there were many factors. Some people will tell you about the ogre of GS and invites to CSL Premier, but that was about control, not merit, most of the time.  Some top clubs had been angling to leave CSL for some time.

In the end, the ECNL clubs needed a new league, and they convinced Beach, Legends and a few others to follow, many who later got absorbed or disappeared, to join with them and create a new league where coaches picked their brackets, clubs could control their schedules, there would be no Sunday games (yea, they actually said that), results would not be posted nor scores kept for younger age groups, ENCL teams would participate and top teams would get at least 2 games against ECNL competition, and you would smile so hard you would be whistling merry tunes out of your ... well maybe not that last one.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> Curious Q for you. If DA never came would  you have stayed at Beach and said no to ECNL clubs recruiting ur stud?


Great question!  I don’t think we could make it work logistically. We committed to LB for 2 seasons and that about broke my wife and that was only a 40 min commute.  The closest ECNL team at that time was 2x’s further away.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> You and I and our dds go way back.  Keep in mind we lived in Temecula and were with Legends at the time (non ecnl).  We used to see the old wise man (TB) at our games.  Then we got the call.  To be honest with you, that was the best call I ever received by a coach.  No sales pitch with him.  He took all his teams from U11-U18.  If you kept up, you played another year.  No politics.  If you didn't measure up after playoffs, you got cut.  That was pure competition and many parents whined and complained as did I.  When Surf called now that was a different pitch.  Her time as DP (not really that) sucked.  She was eligible for playoffs but decided to go all in ECNL this year with a coach a few friends and she didn't want to be a "rent a player" for the DA playoffs this year.  And let me be clear.  I'm not saying if you go all in with the DA you don't have a life.  It sucks that both our kids can't battle against each other like before.  Plus I see some studs some haven't seen at ECNL.  One kid I knew back in the day is 5 10' now.  ECNL screwed Legends and Beach, no question.  Not fair and frankly one of the reasons were talking about this crap.


Just to be clear ECNL didn'st screw Beach or Legends.  They had no track record and in the case of Legends, they didn't want to jump in at the beginning and when they did the second expansion it was either take Blues and Eagles or take them and keep one of those more deserving clubs out.  The only club that got screwed by ECNL was Laguna Hills Eclipse as they had recently won a USYS National Championship and that was the litmus test for entry (although Legends didn't have a championship at that time).

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MakeAPlay said:


> Just to be clear ECNL didn'st screw Beach or Legends.  They had no track record and in the case of Legends, they didn't want to jump in at the beginning and when they did the second expansion it was either take Blues and Eagles or take them and keep one of those more deserving clubs out.  The only club that got screwed by ECNL was Laguna Hills Eclipse as they had recently won a USYS National Championship and that was the litmus test for entry (although Legends didn't have a championship at that time).
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


The screwing came later when a few of the 9 clubs consistently voted against letting another Club gain entry.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kicker4Life said:


> The screwing came later when a few of the 9 clubs consistently voted against letting another Club gain entry.


It was actually 2 clubs.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MakeAPlay said:


> It was actually 2 clubs.


Nah...there was a 3rd.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kicker4Life said:


> Nah...there was a 3rd.


Slammers and Arsenal.  Who was the third because nobody else cared (that includes Strikers my daughter played for them most of her career)?


----------



## Dos Equis

In the LA South Bay, a good PVSC/Exiles/Fram/South Bay/Force U11-U13 team might find Blues coaches on the sidelines (at least they were up front about it) and Slammers coaches stopping parents on their way to the parking lot after the game.  That pre-dated ECNL, and is one of the reasons ECNL exclusion helped Beach more than they admit.  They became the big fish.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Dos Equis said:


> In the LA South Bay, a good PVSC/Exiles/Fram/South Bay/Force U11-U13 team might find Blues coaches on the sidelines (at least they were up front about it) and Slammers coaches stopping parents on their way to the parking lot after the game.  That pre-dated ECNL, and is one of the reasons ECNL exclusion helped Beach more than they admit.  They became the big fish.


I’m in the South Bay. LD from Blues would drive out from OC and find out where our girls would train. He then stalk our parents after practice. He also admitted that he liked to get our players and had very little competition in getting them. I also know when MQ was the girls DOC for South Bay Force he lost many players to ECNL.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MakeAPlay said:


> Slammers and Arsenal.  Who was the third because nobody else cared (that includes Strikers my daughter played for them most of her career)?


Blues and Slammers


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dos Equis said:


> In the LA South Bay, a good PVSC/Exiles/Fram/South Bay/Force U11-U13 team might find Blues coaches on the sidelines (at least they were up front about it) and Slammers coaches stopping parents on their way to the parking lot after the game.  That pre-dated ECNL, and is one of the reasons ECNL exclusion helped Beach more than they admit.  They became the big fish.


Beach and Legends should thank the ECNL teams for their oligarchy.  Beach and Legends got to have 5o teams in each age group and for the most part they only had to worry about each other and Carlsbad Elite as competition in National Cup once the ECNL teams pulled out.  These newbie parents don't understand that prior to the ECNL teams leaving it was rare for anyone outside of those 10 clubs to make a semifinal of national cup.  Every year that my daughter participated in national cup it was 4 ECNL teams as the semifinalists and Arsenal would end up winning it every year.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> Just to be clear ECNL didn'st screw Beach or Legends.  They had no track record and in the case of Legends, they didn't want to jump in at the beginning and when they did the second expansion it was either take Blues and Eagles or take them and keep one of those more deserving clubs out.  The only club that got screwed by ECNL was Laguna Hills Eclipse as they had recently won a USYS National Championship and that was the litmus test for entry (although Legends didn't have a championship at that time).
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


They would say that and the perception was there.  I heard many rumors why no Legends.  Maybe JH had bigger plans???


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kicker4Life said:


> Blues and Slammers


Blues weren't an original member.  They were let in.  The original members in SoCal where:

Slammers
Surf
West Coast FC
Strikers
Real So Cal
Arsenal


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> They would say that and the perception was there.  I heard many rumors why no Legends.  Maybe JH had bigger plans???


Nope.  Josh wanted in once he realized that it was the beginning of the end of relevance for the Coast Soccer League.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MakeAPlay said:


> Blues weren't an original member.  They were let in.  The original members in SoCal where:
> 
> Slammers
> Surf
> West Coast FC
> Strikers
> Real So Cal
> Arsenal


Being an original member has zero bearing on my comment.  They were one of the “few” clubs that voted against letting Beach in.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kicker4Life said:


> Being an original member has zero bearing on my comment.  They were one of the “few” clubs that voted against letting Beach in.


Okay now I get what you were saying.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> Nope.  Josh wanted in once he realized that it was the beginning of the end of relevance for the Coast Soccer League.


You sure?  I think he had big big plans and he's not done.  Water park and hotel are next.  He wanted in just like all the clubs and deserved to be in.  The ECNL clubs in socal thought he was arrogant.  Maybe he was.  I think he made a good decision and ECNL should have done a better job of working things out.  I know he hated them because his players would get poached from Arsenal, Blues and so on.  It happened every year   You kinda have to say JH has done well from a business side.  I don't know the books but it looks good from the outside compared to Blues who were #1 in SoCal for a long time and need to make a decision soon, DA or ECNL.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> You sure?  I think he had big big plans and he's not done.  Water park and hotel are next.  He wanted in just like all the clubs and deserved to be in.  The ECNL clubs in socal thought he was arrogant.  Maybe he was.  I think he made a good decision and ECNL should have done a better job of working things out.  I know he hated them because his players would get poached from Arsenal, Blues and so on.  It happened every year   You kinda have to say JH has done well from a business side.  I don't know the books but it looks good from the outside compared to Blues who were #1 in SoCal for a long time and need to make a decision soon, DA or ECNL.



Look I go back to the days when Legends didn’t even exist so the reality is Arsenal was there first and Legends didn’t do anything until after the ECNL teams split off and he got the ability (through the formation of the SCDSL) to have as many teams in each age group as he wanted. So yes he has done well for himself as a businessman but in terms of talent development he is average at best. 

 And if the Legends parents are okay with someone getting rich off of their kids pure talent and drive then this is America and as long as it is not hurting anybody and it is happening between two consenting parties then have at it.

Good luck to you and your daughter.


----------



## MakeAPlay

The good news is things are much worse on the boys side.  Or at least the good news for nobody with a son in the DA.


----------



## Dubs

MarkM said:


> A very good player on the Blues DA team just won the CIF State championship in a distance event.  I think she is running and playing soccer at Oregon.


That's great to hear and I'm certain that had nothing to do with DA and everything to do with her club letting her do what she wants to do.  I've made this point also that the real development and guidance comes from your club.  DA and ECNL have very little to do with that part.


----------



## Ellejustus

A good read, https://www.businessinsider.com/nba-players-dropping-out-fiba-world-cup-2019-7?utm_content=buffer95d21&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-sports&fbclid=IwAR2TAMVLNyT_LmIcIjY_jevZVPrfaKudH3_n671m71noa2XWfKhm5S_VCTY

FIBA made a change to its schedule in recent years. Two-thirds of the qualifying tournaments for the World Cup take place during the NBA season. Unlike in soccer with FIFA, players on the national team don't get exemptions from their professional teams to play in international tournaments.

"FIBA is not concerned about us," Colangelo said ( via The Washington Post's Ben Golliver). "They're concerned about what's best for basketball internationally. FIBA got exactly what they wanted. They're getting a lot of games, a lot of attendance. There's more interest in a lot of countries. Personally, I didn't like the change. I knew it would have a negative effect on us."


----------



## Ellejustus

"Slated to start play in September 2019,the DPL Schedule will allow players to continue playing high school soccer
while developing their technical and tactical skills through club soccer."


----------



## Desert Hound

Ellejustus said:


> "Slated to start play in September 2019,the DPL Schedule will allow players to continue playing high school soccer
> while developing their technical and tactical skills through club soccer."


This is the link you left out. http://usssasoccer.com/2019/08/02/usssa-to-sanction-nationwide-development-player-league-starting-this-fall/


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> "Slated to start play in September 2019,the DPL Schedule will allow players to continue playing high school soccer
> while developing their technical and tactical skills through club soccer."


Wow, wow, wow and wow!!!!! let me seriously talk to my dd to see if she would like to reconsider her decision to play ECNL this upcoming season. This could be a game changer. Let me see, have dd play DPL first half and then join the DA Team (if she can make it since she's been playing that horrible brand of soccer in HS) after HS Soccer. At DPL she can practice juggling and dribbling while all the other players play in the big leagues. Listen all you fools at DA, yes you. Allow HS Soccer!!!!!!! End of story. This is so stupid. I think I might make this my mission in life. #letthemplayHS.......#letthemplayboth.......I have some advice for everyone: DA can be DA, ECNL can be DPL. DPL can be a local league, CRL and that's that. No need for this BS anymore.


----------



## Soccer43

Ellejustus said:


> Wow, wow, wow and wow!!!!! let me seriously talk to my dd to see if she would like to reconsider her decision to play ECNL this upcoming season. This could be a game changer. Let me see, have dd play DPL first half and then join the DA Team (if she can make it since she's been playing that horrible brand of soccer in HS) after HS Soccer. At DPL she can practice juggling and dribbling while all the other players play in the big leagues. Listen all you fools at DA, yes you. Allow HS Soccer!!!!!!! End of story. This is so stupid. I think I might make this my mission in life. #letthemplayHS.......#letthemplayboth.......I have some advice for everyone: DA can be DA, ECNL can be DPL. DPL can be a local league, CRL and that's that. No need for this BS anymore.


And why would ECNL become DPL?   Why can't ECNL just stay ECNL and everyone else leave it alone?  From the age split, the introduction of DA and then continued change of teams and rosters the next two years because of the impact of the age change years prior I for one would have preferred it all be left alone.  I think it is fine for the youngers (2004-2005, etc) but this whole process was bad for the older ages going through this.   When it was first introduced I was a willing participant but as the years have gone on it has not proven to have provided a benefit overall.  US Soccer has no interest in High school soccer nor college soccer for that matter so this is a dead issue.  

Also, just to clarify - the press release about DPL is clear it is being sanction by USSSA - nothing to do with US Soccer and the DA.


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccer43 said:


> And why would ECNL become DPL?   Why can't ECNL just stay ECNL and everyone else leave it alone?  From the age split, the introduction of DA and then continued change of teams and rosters the next two years because of the impact of the age change years prior I for one would have preferred it all be left alone.  I think it is fine for the youngers (2004-2005, etc) but this whole process was bad for the older ages going through this.   When it was first introduced I was a willing participant but as the years have gone on it has not proven to have provided a benefit overall.  US Soccer has no interest in High school soccer nor college soccer for that matter so this is a dead issue.
> 
> Also, just to clarify - the press release about DPL is clear it is being sanction by USSSA - nothing to do with US Soccer and the DA.


I mean, ECNL stays ECNL.  It was more about Top League 1, 2 and 3 and so on.  It sucks for 2022 and order.


----------



## Soccer43

Ellejustus said:


> I mean, ECNL stays ECNL.  It was more about Top League 1, 2 and 3 and so on.  It sucks for 2022 and order.


I don't see ECNL as ranked 2nd behind DA.  That is a myth that many want to perpetuate.  Parents have chosen based on personal preference and opportunities and there are top players in both.  Not everyone is a fan of TopDrawer Soccer but if you look at the IMG 150 there seems to be a pretty even grouping of DA and ECNL players


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccer43 said:


> I don't see ECNL as ranked 2nd behind DA.  That is a myth that many want to perpetuate.  Parents have chosen based on personal preference and opportunities and there are top players in both.  Not everyone is a fan of TopDrawer Soccer but if you look at the IMG 150 there seems to be a pretty even grouping of DA and ECNL players


In Socal it is.  Both leagues have some good teams and players.  Majority of the "Elite" players in SoCal our at DA.  1/3 of the country different story


----------



## timbuck

Desert Hound said:


> This is the link you left out. http://usssasoccer.com/2019/08/02/usssa-to-sanction-nationwide-development-player-league-starting-this-fall/


Can someone explain this to me?
Was DPL not a sanctioned league before?  What exactly does that mean?
And what exactly does it mean now that they are sanctioned?
And why not be sanctioned by US Soccer?
Does this give DPL more of less control over who they allow in?
As it stands today, DPL is made up of DA teams, right?   Willl US Soccer get made that DPL is sanctioned under a different governing body?
Will DPL now allow non-DA teams in?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> In Socal it is.  Both leagues have some good teams and players.  Majority of the "Elite" players in SoCal our at DA.  1/3 of the country different story


It amazes me how people let themselves be dictated to.  If 6-8 years ago someone had told me that they were going to tell me where I was going to have my player play I would have gotten a good belly laugh and told them to kick rocks.

GDA is a shit show that has succeeded in lowering the overall level of play in SoCal from when my kid first started playing.  Surf Cup has been cheapened to the point that now you have hundreds of teams that get in instead of an elite few.  They are making more money but the level of soccer is much lower.  Personally if my daughter was in U10 again in this environment I would have just had her stick to track and field.


----------



## Soccer43

Ellejustus said:


> In Socal it is.  Both leagues have some good teams and players.  Majority of the "Elite" players in SoCal our at DA.  1/3 of the country different story


what do you base this statement on?  From what data or research are you using to say that the majority of the elite players are in DA?  This is a complicated issue and results can vary based on age.  I believe you said your player is on the younger side so it may be more true for your players age but certainly is not true of other ages.


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccer43 said:


> what do you base this statement on?  From what data or research are you using to say that the majority of the elite players are in DA?  This is a complicated issue and results can vary based on age.  I believe you said your player is on the younger side so it may be more true for your players age but certainly is not true of other ages.


Have you seen the U16 YNT list?  Anyone from ECNL on it from SoCal?  How about from other parts of the country?


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccer43 said:


> what do you base this statement on?  From what data or research are you using to say that the majority of the elite players are in DA?  This is a complicated issue and results can vary based on age.  I believe you said your player is on the younger side so it may be more true for your players age but certainly is not true of other ages.


Also, when I say "Elite" I'm referring to players who have already made the list or someday will.  I believe if you have the same two players with equal skill 100% of the time the player that has committed to the DA Rules will get the call up.  You better be "elite, elite" outside of the DA to get in.  Not fair if that is your dd goal.  Isn't that why they want us to play in their developmental league in the first place?  Very subjective selection process with punishments if you don't confirm to their set of rules.  This was not how past groups were picked.  ODP was how they picked.  In fact, Surf told all of our DDs who were invited not to attend.  Many didn't.  Cal South was not too happy about it either.  Another shit show for my dd.  You have to have a little empathy for her?  Even ODP was taken away when it once mattered.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> Also, when I say "Elite" I'm referring to players who have already made the list or someday will.  I believe if you have the same two players with equal skill 100% of the time the player that has committed to the DA Rules will get the call up.  You better be "elite, elite" outside of the DA to get in.  Not fair if that is your dd goal.  Isn't that why they want us to play in their developmental league in the first place?  Very subjective selection process with punishments if you don't confirm to their set of rules.  This was not how past groups were picked.  ODP was how they picked.  In fact, Surf told all of our DDs who were invited not to attend.  Many didn't.  Cal South was not too happy about it either.  Another shit show for my dd.  You have to have a little empathy for her?  Even ODP was taken away when it once mattered.


This is why it is most important to do what is best for your player and to not give a crap what US Soccer says.  At the end of the day you are going to be the one who is accountable to your kid.  They have to be happy and if they want a well balanced life and lots of opportunities not necessarily related to soccer then great.

I can tell you that my kid doesn’t regret the degree that she just got and the worst case scenario for a smart, elite female soccer player in the US is a college degree.  In my opinion that is better than any carrot that US Soccer could ever dangle!  And since most of the 12 year olds playing soccer now won’t get a soccer scholarship and 99% of the current  YNT players will never play for the full National Team it seems silly to bow down to what any amorphous governing body decides.


----------



## offtopic

Ellejustus said:


> ...I believe if you have the same two players with equal skill 100% of the time the player that has committed to the DA Rules will get the call up.  You better be "elite, elite" outside of the DA to get in...


But doesn't that make sense on some level? Take two players of equal skill, one of whom practices with similar players a minimum of 4x/week for 48 weeks every year (so 192 practices a year) and one that maybe does that 3x/week (I know a couple ECNL teams that do this for long stretches) for maybe 35 weeks every year (so 105 practices a year) and they will very quickly not have equal skill. Maybe the ECNL kid practices more than that but US Soccer would have no way of knowing or controlling that so everything else looking about equal they will take the kid they 'control' or have input and oversight. Moreover, as parents, which system will allow our dd to hit their potential (if they are having fun and don't burn out!)...one that practices 192 times or one that practices 105 times?

I think anyone following these forums gets that you are upset and frustrated by the situation (and that is fine). Honestly I just don't think it matters at this point whether a kid plays ECNL or DA (with possible exception of YNT...but that just won't matter for the vast majority)...maybe in another 5-6 years but for now either is good as far as college is concerned! To me (and I've said this before) the biggest losers, by far, are those kids that are playing NPL for teams they've been on since they were young, on good clubs and with good coaches...these type of kids used to get consistent looks by US Soccer and Colleges and now the exposure is almost nonexistent (coaches/scouts just don't have the time to see a 3rd league).


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> This is why it is most important to do what is best for your player and to not give a crap what US Soccer says.  At the end of the day you are going to be the one who is accountable to your kid.  They have to be happy and if they want a well balanced life and lots of opportunities not necessarily related to soccer then great.
> 
> I can tell you that my kid doesn’t regret the degree that she just got and the worst case scenario for a smart, elite female soccer player in the US is a college degree.  In my opinion that is better than any carrot that US Soccer could ever dangle!  And since most of the 12 year olds playing soccer now won’t get a soccer scholarship and 99% of the current  YNT players will never play for the full National Team it seems silly to bow down to what any amorphous governing body decides.


That's what we did. I will go away soon and let my dd work speak for itself this coming season. Talk is cheap.


----------



## myself

offtopic said:


> But doesn't that make sense on some level? Take two players of equal skill, one of whom practices with similar players a minimum of 4x/week for 48 weeks every year (so 192 practices a year) and one that maybe does that 3x/week (I know a couple ECNL teams that do this for long stretches) for maybe 35 weeks every year (so 105 practices a year) and they will very quickly not have equal skill. Maybe the ECNL kid practices more than that but US Soccer would have no way of knowing or controlling that so everything else looking about equal they will take the kid they 'control' or have input and oversight. Moreover, as parents, which system will allow our dd to hit their potential (if they are having fun and don't burn out!)...one that practices 192 times or one that practices 105 times?


I have to nitpick this, sorry.

- Do DA teams really only have 4 weeks off per year? ("4x/week for 48 weeks every year")
- Do all DA teams enforce the 4 practices per week, or for some is there an "optional" 4th day or a do-your-own-thing 4th day?
- "But doesn't that make sense on some level? Take two players of equal skill...and they will very quickly not have equal skill.". This doesn't take into account that different players have different max potentials, may work harder/easier in practice, have better/worse coaches, better/worse teammates, play starters minutes vs bench minutes, and so on and so on and so on....

The issue as I see it is that US Soccer isn't even giving the ECNL girls a chance to compete for spots. If they invited ECNL girls to camp and they got beat out, then fine, but if you don't invite them, it looks suspect and political in nature. Regardless of the "development pathway" if Player A is better than Player B, then Player A should get selected if you're picking on merit. But I think we know that they're NOT picking on merit, they're trying to bury ECNL and "persuade" top players to choose a certain path. The same way that US Soccer "encourages" USWNT hopefuls to play in the NWSL and not overseas because it's "easier to be seen" **wink wink**.

This turned into kind of a rant; sorry it wasn't directed at you. I just wanted to get it off my chest.


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> That's what we did. I will go away soon and let my dd work speak for itself this coming season. Talk is cheap.


This last year we moved to South OC and went back to Blues hoping they would choose ECNL.  Not this year or next probably.  Good for them. As long as they can have both makes sence to collect as much cash as possible before they are forced to choose ECNL or DA allows HS Soccer.  DA is no friend of da Blues either. "No respect I'm saying" for a couple crazy ass legends who know a lot more about the female athlete than all of us combine.  Might have been wise to listen to them instead of having Surf go up with a pile of cash and start making offers.  Capitalism at its finest


----------



## offtopic

myself said:


> I have to nitpick this, sorry.
> 
> - Do DA teams really only have 4 weeks off per year? ("4x/week for 48 weeks every year")
> - Do all DA teams enforce the 4 practices per week, or for some is there an "optional" 4th day or a do-your-own-thing 4th day?
> - "But doesn't that make sense on some level? Take two players of equal skill...and they will very quickly not have equal skill.". This doesn't take into account that different players have different max potentials, may work harder/easier in practice, have better/worse coaches, better/worse teammates, play starters minutes vs bench minutes, and so on and so on and so on....
> 
> The issue as I see it is that US Soccer isn't even giving the ECNL girls a chance to compete for spots. If they invited ECNL girls to camp and they got beat out, then fine, but if you don't invite them, it looks suspect and political in nature. Regardless of the "development pathway" if Player A is better than Player B, then Player A should get selected if you're picking on merit. But I think we know that they're NOT picking on merit, they're trying to bury ECNL and "persuade" top players to choose a certain path. The same way that US Soccer "encourages" USWNT hopefuls to play in the NWSL and not overseas because it's "easier to be seen" **wink wink**.
> 
> This turned into kind of a rant; sorry it wasn't directed at you. I just wanted to get it off my chest.


I don't disagree but I think if their only intent was to bury ECNL they would just have kept all non-DA players out of all camps. I think if their intent was to bury ECNL they would have gradually phased out high school participation. I don't know their thinking so maybe they just didn't think of those things.

But yeah I think most DA teams take off 1-2 weeks in summer and 3 or so in winter. That's all my DD team had...she is also practicing like 6-7x/week post DA Showcase. My only point is that if you take the same player and make them practice significantly more...they will be better than if they didn't. Practice matters.


----------



## timbuck

offtopic said:


> I don't disagree but I think if their only intent was to bury ECNL they would just have kept all non-DA players out of all camps. I think if their intent was to bury ECNL they would have gradually phased out high school participation. I don't know their thinking so maybe they just didn't think of those things.
> 
> But yeah I think most DA teams take off 1-2 weeks in summer and 3 or so in winter. That's all my DD team had...she is also practicing like 6-7x/week post DA Showcase. My only point is that if you take the same player and make them practice significantly more...they will be better than if they didn't. Practice matters.


Or they wind up with an overuse injury.
Possible burn out-  but if a player at this level is burnt out, they don’t belong at this level.


----------



## Ellejustus

offtopic said:


> I don't disagree but I think if their only intent was to bury ECNL they would just have kept all non-DA players out of all camps. I think if their intent was to bury ECNL they would have gradually phased out high school participation. I don't know their thinking so maybe they just didn't think of those things.
> 
> But yeah I think most DA teams take off 1-2 weeks in summer and 3 or so in winter. That's all my DD team had...she is also practicing like 6-7x/week post DA Showcase. My only point is that if you take the same player and make them practice significantly more...they will be better than if they didn't. Practice matters.


Were talking practice, practice practice.  Have fun practicing.  I bet my dd will not loose a beat and will battle all the DA players in college. College coaches want and need to win and they get paid to win.  If they don't, most will get fired. I will take my chances finding someone who wants to win and who treats female athletes with respect.


----------



## Ellejustus

I'm doing a toxic shit cleans of my soul.  It's been very therapeutic for me. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone on the developmental side of things. I know I sound like a big baby. I promise I will be leaving soon and you can go on with the debate. Its been personally liberating for me.  TY


----------



## Ellejustus

Now some Toxic stuff from the coaching side.  Buyer beware of the coach who thinks he's the pathway to the DM at college.  Very dangerous and not good for 8th graders or soon to be 9th graders.  God forbid your dd tells one of them your not so sure you want to go to college.  With the new rules your job just got a lot less important in regards to being the "middle man" to set up the phone calls.  Focus on teaching them to be better people and better players, students and so on.  That takes time and patience and most 14 year old girls need some time IMHO   I would love to see the day that an actual college coach calls your dd in 11th grade and invites her for a visit.  Maybe take 3 visits like all the guys do.  This is a big investment and commitment for both parties.  A club coach should help you be the best player you can be, period, end of story.  Then the player can decide how best to go after soccer after HS. According to the DA the club coach is training you to be a world cup player or pro, no HS or college.  In fact, if your Elite, Elite, Elite, you need not go to school.  We will pay YOU and YOU only some $$$$.  All the rest can go to college and fight it out at Stanford or UCLA.  Your reward is a very nice degree


----------



## Ellejustus

US Soccer Federation is toxic as well.  Everyone who pays taxes and has had kids playing at an elite club level should ALL have EQUAL access to the YNT selection process.  My dd has a dream as does thousands of other girls around this find country of ours.  America is the land of the free, home of the brave   Because she and others decided to play for their HS they are forbidden (punished, kicked out, not allowed entrance, and so on) to participate in a league that is partly funded by this great county of ours, the USA!!!!  Please someone, tell me another US Sports Federation Team that forbids their players from playing that sport in HS?  Anyone?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## Soccer43

Ellejustus said:


> Have you seen the U16 YNT list?  Anyone from ECNL on it from SoCal?  How about from other parts of the country?


Your assumption is wrong.  A YNT call up does not necessarily mean the "best.   They probably get it right many times but there are some they got wrong in those call ups (thus all the players they invite once and never again).  There are talented elite players that have not gotten call ups.  While I don't think Top Drawer Soccer rankings are the best they do rank the players on more than if they get a call up.  They look at other accomplishments and players that have proven themselves in many arenas.

So I looked at the numbers for 2020's and 2023.  As I suspected, the 2020 year had more representation of ECNL in the top 50 of the IMG 150.  The younger age has more in the DA.  That is not necessarily because DA is better but due to the culture and the messaging that DA is best for those families that never had experience with ECNL
2020 grad year:  26 players in ECNL/  23 players in DA / 1 player from Hawaii so neither one  (5 are from So Cal: 4 play in ECNL and 1 in DA)
2023 grad year:  17 players in ECNL/ 33 players in DA   (9 are from So Cal:  3 play in ECNL and 6 in DA)


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccer43 said:


> Your assumption is wrong.  A YNT call up does not necessarily mean the "best."


I never said the best.  Its a hell of a accomplishment and it puts your kids name in front of every college coach in America.  It's also nice to put on your soccer resume.  It should be the goal of every kid playing in the DA right?  US Soccer is only looking for those types of players.


----------



## Fact

Ellejustus said:


> US Soccer Federation is toxic as well.  Everyone who pays taxes and has had kids playing at an elite club level should ALL have EQUAL access to the YNT selection process.  My dd has a dream as does thousands of other girls around this find country of ours.  America is the land of the free, home of the brave   Because she and others decided to play for their HS they are forbidden (punished, kicked out, not allowed entrance, and so on) to participate in a league that is partly funded by this great county of ours, the USA!!!!  Please someone, tell me another US Sports Federation Team that forbids their players from playing that sport in HS?  Anyone?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


"Everyone who pays taxes and has had kids playing at an elite club level should ALL have EQUAL access to the YNT"  ????? What about the kiddo that does not live within driving distance to an "Elite Club," cannot afford an elite club or just simply decides to play for a local club with a great coach?  Over the years, I have seen many talented kiddos that don't even get looked at by ODP because their coach is not connected.

You're the classic I want my cake and eat it too.  You as much admit that you moved your DD to Surf to create a super team to compete for the National Championship.  I believe this is the age group of Jeremy's and Bryan's DD and while one was rightfully on the team, this team was manufactured around a certain player.  That meant purposely taking away from the other power teams in Socal including Blues.  That's were your DD and her teammates that moved to Surf became important;  drain the talent at Blues to get past the Socal competition.  And you went there for the dream, not the coach like should be the focus.

You must have wondered why certain players make the A team at Surf or why some kiddos get more playing time when skill level does not seem to mesh.  Were you ever offered privates in exchange for making sure your player never came off the field?  I am not sure what age group won the National Championship but that behavior was quiet prevalent at the younger age groups of Surf.

Unfortunately life is not fair and everyone has to decide what is best for them.  Yes it sucks that Surf DA players that go to private schools like Francis Parker and Bishops  play on the high school team.  If I were friends with any such families, I would start to question my friendship with these less than scrupulous people.  Maybe spend your time exposing these injustices or maybe in the grand scheme of things you can at least be proud of your DD for standing up for what she believes in and enjoy watching her play. The time goes by fast.


----------



## Ellejustus

Fact said:


> "Everyone who pays taxes and has had kids playing at an elite club level should ALL have EQUAL access to the YNT"  ????? What about the kiddo that does not live within driving distance to an "Elite Club," cannot afford an elite club or just simply decides to play for a local club with a great coach?  Over the years, I have seen many talented kiddos that don't even get looked at by ODP because their coach is not connected.
> 
> You're the classic I want my cake and eat it too.  You as much admit that you moved your DD to Surf to create a super team to compete for the National Championship.  I believe this is the age group of Jeremy's and Bryan's DD and while one was rightfully on the team, this team was manufactured around a certain player.  That meant purposely taking away from the other power teams in Socal including Blues.  That's were your DD and her teammates that moved to Surf became important;  drain the talent at Blues to get past the Socal competition.  And you went there for the dream, not the coach like should be the focus.
> 
> You must have wondered why certain players make the A team at Surf or why some kiddos get more playing time when skill level does not seem to mesh.  Were you ever offered privates in exchange for making sure your player never came off the field?  I am not sure what age group won the National Championship but that behavior was quiet prevalent at the younger age groups of Surf.
> 
> Unfortunately life is not fair and everyone has to decide what is best for them.  Yes it sucks that Surf DA players that go to private schools like Francis Parker and Bishops  play on the high school team.  If I were friends with any such families, I would start to question my friendship with these less than scrupulous people.  Maybe spend your time exposing these injustices or maybe in the grand scheme of things you can at least be proud of your DD for standing up for what she believes in and enjoy watching her play. The time goes by fast.


Thank you for chiming in Facts.  As we all know, the age changed.  Her coach Tad decided to take the 03s.  Simone Jackson ring a bell?  My dd choice was Dido as were the other 04s.  That there my friend lies the first problem.  Wrong coach.  My dd loved how Surf played and wanted to try a different approach.  We lived in Temecula and the drive was shorter.  She went first with no looking back.  I never once called a Blues parent to beg them to please come too.  That's a fact, Fact.  They followed one at time because just maybe, they didn't want to play for the coach at Blues.  The old Blues team always scrimmaged Dido and he would make more little girls cry then I could count.  I think he's more suited for older girls, just saying.  My kid said, no thanks then and she's saying no thanks now.  Super team my ass!!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> Thank you for chiming in Facts.  As we all know, the age changed.  Her coach Tad decided to take the 03s.  Simone Jackson ring a bell?  My dd choice was Dido as were the other 04s.  That there my friend lies the first problem.  Wrong coach.  My dd loved how Surf played and wanted to try a different approach.  We lived in Temecula and the drive was shorter.  She went first with no looking back.  I never once called a Blues parent to beg them to please come too.  That's a fact, Fact.  They followed one at time because just maybe, they didn't want to play for the coach at Blues.  The old Blues team always scrimmaged Dido and he would make more little girls cry then I could count.  I think he's more suited for older girls, just saying.  My kid said, no thanks then and she's saying no thanks now.  Super team my ass!!!!


Plus she went for the coach too.  I promise, I'm not lying.  Also because she had a dream Fact and Surf was in charge of a new TC program that Blues had not promoted.  That too is a fact, Fact.  I have more facts, Fact, but I'm not hear to name names.  Let's be respectful toward naming people if you can.


----------



## Fact

Ellejustus said:


> Plus she went for the coach too.  I promise, I'm not lying.  Also because she had a dream Fact and Surf was in charge of a new TC program that Blues had not promoted.  That too is a fact, Fact.  I have more facts, Fact, but I'm not hear to name names.  Let's be respectful toward naming people if you can.


Your words from the other thread “She was the first one to bolt to Surf from Blues. A few teammates followed and low and behold, 11th National Championship.”  You cannot tell me that at the time Surf set their roster, you knew exactly what was going to happen at Blues with coaching assignments?  Surf sets their roster many months ahead of tryouts and I am sure that they were actively recruiting to Bkues top players.  They use to do the same to West Coast.

So I looked up the coaching at Surf for that team. Do you really think that he was a much more respectable coach than Dido?  Same type of abusive language and yelling plus a recovering addict.

What names did I mention where I am not being respectful?  They are Board members out in the public while you name coaches. What’s the difference?  Nothing other than maybe you don’t want to name them because your kiddo is still friends and want to not entirely close the door at Surf knowing that they are in charge of that team roster?  Too late, they are the 2 people in charge of Surf and all the policies you are complaining about.


----------



## Ellejustus

Fact said:


> Your words from the other thread “She was the first one to bolt to Surf from Blues. A few teammates followed and low and behold, 11th National Championship.”  You cannot tell me that at the time Surf set their roster, you knew exactly what was going to happen at Blues with coaching assignments?  Surf sets their roster many months ahead of tryouts and I am sure that they were actively recruiting to Bkues top players.  They use to do the same to West Coast.
> 
> So I looked up the coaching at Surf for that team. Do you really think that he was a much more respectable coach than Dido?  Same type of abusive language and yelling plus a recovering addict.
> 
> What names did I mention where I am not being respectful?  They are Board members out in the public while you name coaches. What’s the difference?  Nothing other than maybe you don’t want to name them because your kiddo is still friends and want to not entirely close the door at Surf knowing that they are in charge of that team roster?  Too late, they are the 2 people in charge of Surf and all the policies you are complaining about.


Your perceptions are wrong Fact.  I think its safe to name coaches but I will go back to initials.  I used the wrong word, "Bolt."  I actually spent months deciding.  Players don't normally leave Blues and or TB.  I took my time on this one, trust me.  My dd went to Blues for one reason, TB the coach.  If I could go back in time, I would have had her fight it out and try and make his new 03 team. I was talking to TB all the time.  The fact is Fact, I'm a very open person and I always talk to the DM.  TB had a long standing policy that you had to wait until the season was over before he informed your dd if she made his team for next year.  I didn't like, especially with the age change coming. I complained to the DM.  It was a hard time for the older 04s.  Tough decisions had to be made unlike any other time regarding birth year.  Should she play up?  Should she play in her age group?  Let's keep that in perspective.  I also had long talks on the phone with him about this new US Soccer Training Center stuff all the other kids parents from other clubs were raving about.  He didn't promote that and I didn't like that either.  I got a call from Surf and you know what I was sold Fact from MS?  TC, TC, TC and a chance at the golden ticket.  The others came at different times and I'm sure for similar reasons.  That's a fact, Fact!  My dd wanted an opportunity to make a future YNT brah.  It was never about a National Championship.  I'm sure Surf wanted #11 and the club did what they did to get it.  Dido was the 04/05 coach and it was said directly to me that he was going to be the 04' coach.  OM the Pro was on that team too.  Regarding the coach at Surf, he came with name recognition.  No way she plays for him knowing what I know now.  Life isn't like that though.  However, he did put her at the 11 on a 4 4 2.  It kept her further from the net but she learned how to use her left  He taught her some cool possession soccer that is not played except with De Anza/Earthquakes.  We beat them which is still one of my dd favorite games and the best she has played in one game


----------



## Ellejustus

offtopic said:


> I don't disagree but I think if their only intent was to bury ECNL they would just have kept all non-DA players out of all camps. I think if their intent was to bury ECNL they would have gradually phased out high school participation. I don't know their thinking so maybe they just didn't think of those things.
> 
> But yeah I think most DA teams take off 1-2 weeks in summer and 3 or so in winter. That's all my DD team had...she is also practicing like 6-7x/week post DA Showcase. My only point is that if you take the same player and make them practice significantly more...they will be better than if they didn't. Practice matters.


Great Q to the Great Pep,
*What about younger players, can they play too much competitive football at an early age?*

“At that age they have to *play* and* play* as much as possible. *Play* in the street – in my day we could and now maybe it’s not possible – but *play* and *pla*y and *play* and that’s all and let them *play* day and night and let them *make mistakes*,” added Guardiola.  
He's not saying, Practice practice practice practice is he?  The true competitor wants to battle and play games to win, like warriors.  Some kids who want to win are going to look elsewhere.  Sorry but winning is fun for some kids.  They want to *PLAY TO WIN!!!!!!!*


----------



## outside!

MakeAPlay said:


> Slammers and Arsenal.  Who was the third because nobody else cared (that includes Strikers my daughter played for them most of her career)?


Surf


----------



## Ellejustus

Fact said:


> Your words from the other thread “She was the first one to bolt to Surf from Blues. A few teammates followed and low and behold, 11th National Championship.”  You cannot tell me that at the time Surf set their roster, you knew exactly what was going to happen at Blues with coaching assignments?  Surf sets their roster many months ahead of tryouts and I am sure that they were actively recruiting to Bkues top players.  They use to do the same to West Coast.
> 
> So I looked up the coaching at Surf for that team. Do you really think that he was a much more respectable coach than Dido?  Same type of abusive language and yelling plus a recovering addict.
> 
> What names did I mention where I am not being respectful?  They are Board members out in the public while you name coaches. What’s the difference?  Nothing other than maybe you don’t want to name them because your kiddo is still friends and want to not entirely close the door at Surf knowing that they are in charge of that team roster?  Too late, they are the 2 people in charge of Surf and all the policies you are complaining about.


The toxic part for my dd was after the National Championship.  DA left us all in the dark.  First DA said 04/03.  Then they said 04 by itself.  Then they say latter, "We decided no playoffs for 04s."  My kid was pissed.  You can't expect a competitor like my kid to shut that off for one year.  She played two meaningful games that matter most that year to her, against Legends, who had 3 picks for U14 YNT and Earthquakes who had a few too.........that's what gets my kid going.


----------



## Ellejustus

Fact said:


> Your words from the other thread “She was the first one to bolt to Surf from Blues. A few teammates followed and low and behold, 11th National Championship.”  You cannot tell me that at the time Surf set their roster, you knew exactly what was going to happen at Blues with coaching assignments?  Surf sets their roster many months ahead of tryouts and I am sure that they were actively recruiting to Bkues top players.  They use to do the same to West Coast.
> 
> So I looked up the coaching at Surf for that team. Do you really think that he was a much more respectable coach than Dido?  Same type of abusive language and yelling plus a recovering addict.
> 
> What names did I mention where I am not being respectful?  They are Board members out in the public while you name coaches. What’s the difference?  Nothing other than maybe you don’t want to name them because your kiddo is still friends and want to not entirely close the door at Surf knowing that they are in charge of that team roster?  Too late, they are the 2 people in charge of Surf and all the policies you are complaining about.


One more thing about the coach I'm pissed about.  I wish he would have helped my dd prepare for the arrival of the head coach from UCLA who did a surprise visit to our practice.  She had her list and needed to cross some out.  Instead we were told at the last minute that someone from UCLA was coming tomorrow.  I don't know all the ends of out with college recruiting but my dd didn't get the feed back that she was looking for after practice.   All they got from coach was that some of you lost your chance at UCLA.....lol.  Sometimes you miss that one chance.  It wasn't meant to be.  Oh well, 8th grader wasn't ready and AC was forced to make decisions quickly.  North Carolina already got OM as a very young 7th grader.  Thank God NCAA changed the rules.  That is the Light that has replaced the darkness in girls recruiting.


----------



## BigSoccer

Ellejustus said:


> Great Q to the Great Pep,
> *What about younger players, can they play too much competitive football at an early age?*
> 
> “At that age they have to *play* and* play* as much as possible. *Play* in the street – in my day we could and now maybe it’s not possible – but *play* and *pla*y and *play* and that’s all and let them *play* day and night and let them *make mistakes*,” added Guardiola.
> He's not saying, Practice practice practice practice is he?  The true competitor wants to battle and play games to win, like warriors.  Some kids who want to win are going to look elsewhere.  Sorry but winning is fun for some kids.  They want to *PLAY TO WIN!!!!!!!*


Good Point. My daughter has friends who made Girls DA teams and passed it up because she was told she was coming in as a backup.  One coach told a player she was making a mistake and she should want to fight for a spot on the starting roster.   The player told my daughter she just wants to play and have a shot a college and did not not want to sit on the bench all year.   
I get the battle for position mentality but some players are not looking for YNT as they know where they stand in the pecking order at 14, 15, 16 and up.  My daughter is the least skilled out of all her friends and no longer plays on the same team as them.  But when the play against each other at practice she plays to win and it is good to see.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> One more thing about the coach I'm pissed about.  I wish he would have helped my dd prepare for the arrival of the head coach from UCLA who did a surprise visit to our practice.  She had her list and needed to cross some out.  Instead we were told at the last minute that someone from UCLA was coming tomorrow.  I don't know all the ends of out with college recruiting but my dd didn't get the feed back that she was looking for after practice.   All they got from coach was that some of you lost your chance at UCLA.....lol.  Sometimes you miss that one chance.  It wasn't meant to be.  Oh well, 8th grader wasn't ready and AC was forced to make decisions quickly.  North Carolina already got OM as a very young 7th grader.  Thank God NCAA changed the rules.  That is the Light that has replaced the darkness in girls recruiting.


We have had colleges at a couple of our practices and the coaches don’t say a word to anyone about it.  Then again, why would they?

By the way, I wouldn’t set yourself up for the expectation that a College Coach is going to give your DD feedback after watching a team practice, unless they’ve communicated on some level prior to the practice.  Even then, it’s not likely to happen. 

With the new rules...you won’t hear anything. Yes, I whole heartedly support the new rules and so does my DD. She was already feeling pressure from certain schools and was not ready to make any decisions, hell she doesn’t even know what her academic focus will be so how can you make a proper decision?


----------



## Fact

Here’s the last thing I’ll say on the subject.  This all took place when your dd was like 12?  You act like her life depended upon it.  The one thing positive I can say about MAP is he let things naturally evolve for his kiddo at this age.  There was no buy in to hype.

You on the other hand were sold a bill of goods by Surf.  I am not sure if you are more mad at yourself for being fooled, mad at Surf or mad at DA.  My suggestion is that if your dd is a good player she will eventually get her shot.

But don’t think DA coaches, players and parents are the only ones with a superiority complex.  Your references to everyone on “elite teams” deserve a shot at YNT is demeaning to all the other players that play locally or don’t play club at all due to finances.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Kicker4Life said:


> We have had colleges at a couple of our practices and the coaches don’t say a word to anyone about it.  Then again, why would they?
> 
> By the way, I wouldn’t set yourself up for the expectation that a College Coach is going to give your DD feedback after watching a team practice, unless they’ve communicated on some level prior to the practice.  Even then, it’s not likely to happen.
> 
> With the new rules...you won’t hear anything. Yes, I wholeheartedly support the new rules and so does my DD. She was already feeling pressure from certain schools and was not ready to make any decisions, hell she doesn’t even know what her academic focus will be so how can you make a proper decision?


They used to give feedback to the coaches about what they saw and what they thought needed to be worked on.  They also were pretty clear about who they were there to see and whether they were looking at the player for a scholarship or just a roster spot.

I also agree that the new rules are good.  The more information for both parties the better.  It will be good for late bloomers and for those that are early bloomers as they will likely be at a more appropriate school and less likely to spend 5 years on the bench.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> We have had colleges at a couple of our practices and the coaches don’t say a word to anyone about it.  Then again, why would they?
> 
> By the way, I wouldn’t set yourself up for the expectation that a College Coach is going to give your DD feedback after watching a team practice, unless they’ve communicated on some level prior to the practice.  Even then, it’s not likely to happen.
> 
> With the new rules...you won’t hear anything. Yes, I whole heartedly support the new rules and so does my DD. She was already feeling pressure from certain schools and was not ready to make any decisions, hell she doesn’t even know what her academic focus will be so how can you make a proper decision?


This was all new to me.  My kid wasn't even sure she wanted to go college at that time.  It's a lot of pressure and I'm not so sure that was the best situation... I know AC is looking for the best and I'm sure she picked well again for the class of 2022.


----------



## Ellejustus

Fact said:


> Here’s the last thing I’ll say on the subject.  This all took place when your dd was like 12?  You act like her life depended upon it.  The one thing positive I can say about MAP is he let things naturally evolve for his kiddo at this age.  There was no buy in to hype.
> 
> You on the other hand were sold a bill of goods by Surf.  I am not sure if you are more mad at yourself for being fooled, mad at Surf or mad at DA.  My suggestion is that if your dd is a good player she will eventually get her shot.
> 
> But don’t think DA coaches, players and parents are the only ones with a superiority complex.  Your references to everyone on “elite teams” deserve a shot at YNT is demeaning to all the other players that play locally or don’t play club at all due to finances.


I never said Elite Teams.  I said Elite Players.......I'm not a good writer and I write with emotion.  I'm toxic brah.  Yes on all the above.  That's why I'm here venting.  I'm whining and being a big baby and I know it.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> This was all new to me.  My kid wasn't even sure she wanted to go college at that time.  It's a lot of pressure and I'm not so sure that was the best situation... I know AC is looking for the best and I'm sure she picked well again for the class of 2022.


I don't know much about their committed players beyond 2020.  The 2019 class is the last class that my player will play with.  I do know that the staff hits a lot more than they miss when it comes to players and if you create a competitive cauldron the cream will rise to the top.


----------



## Fact

Ellejustus said:


> I never said Elite Teams.  I said Elite Players.......I'm not a good writer and I write with emotion.  I'm toxic brah.  Yes on all the above.  That's why I'm here venting.  I'm whining and being a big baby and I know it.


Your exact words from the other thread
"Everyone who pays taxes and has had kids playing at an elite club level should ALL have EQUAL access to the YNT"


----------



## Ellejustus

Fact said:


> Your exact words from the other thread
> "Everyone who pays taxes and has had kids playing at an *elite club level *should ALL have EQUAL access to the YNT"


Elite club *level*, not go form an elite TEAM.  Big difference which is the only issue I take with you.  I know all the darkness that went on.  I too have shame but I just want you to know Fact that my dd reason was for one only.  I know now at 12 years old that was too early to chase.  Understand the difference between *LEVEL* and* TEAM?*


----------



## Ellejustus

Also Fact, during this toxic time back then all the kids on that team and other *Elite Club Teams* with *elite players *on them were asked as 7th graders to make their list of colleges.  I was shocked so early. My kid only had one team on it, UCLA FIGHT FIGHT FUGHT!!!!  She picked it probably because they are one of the best soccer schools hands down, close to the beach, great location, great tradition, championships, football school, social life and the fact her old man loves the school.  She was told 100% you better make the GYNT camp or perform really well when AC sees you to even be considered and invited to her camp.  Nothing wrong with trying is there? That's how 2022s were picked.


----------



## timbuck

Trying to think if I knew anything about what college I wanted to attend in 7th grade.  Aside from watching football games on TV, that never even crossed my mind when I was 12.
Picking a school that has a major that I want?  Hell, I didn’t figure out my major until my junior year of college.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> Also Fact, during this toxic time back then all the kids on that team and other *Elite Club Teams* with *elite players *on them were asked as 7th graders to make their list of colleges.  I was shocked so early. My kid only had one team on it, UCLA FIGHT FIGHT FUGHT!!!!  She picked it probably because they are one of the best soccer schools hands down, close to the beach, great location, great tradition, championships, football school, social life and the fact her old man loves the school.  She was told 100% you better make the GYNT camp or perform really well when AC sees you to even be considered and invited to her camp.  Nothing wrong with trying is there? That's how 2022s were picked.


Sounds like you’ve worked with more Salesman than Coaches.  For what it’s worth, I have found that those who say the least can do the most.  

Your DD is in a good place now.  Hopefully it gets better.


----------



## dk_b

MakeAPlay said:


> It will be good for late bloomers and for those that are early bloomers as they will likely be at a more appropriate school and less likely to spend 5 years on the bench.


I agree with this so, so much.  When my kid was being recruited, she could have really intelligent conversations with coaches about the game, about her strengths and weaknesses, about tactics.  When they asked about school, she sounded like the kid she was.  I think the school she chose remains the right school for her and I am grateful for that but I think making that decision later will benefit everyone for soccer and non-soccer reasons.  (the day we allowed her to commit was also the day she received her first YNT camp invite. I said to her, "are you sure? You may get more opportunities now" and she was clear:  "Yes." And, sure enough, she received a query (through her coach) that was highly detailed from an interesting suitor.  She remained steadfast:  no regrets)

BTW:  I have really enjoyed the history lesson covering the recent SoCal Youth Soccer Years.  It is incredible how these decisions impact kids - those with parents in the know and those who are ignorant (when things were shifting in NorCal - around the time that ECNL was being born - those like me with kids at small clubs were really ignorant and it looked like all the Big Clubs (and the parents) were talking about a party that we were not invited to.  That remains but I get to experience it with a kid at a Big Club and kids at a small club).  My kid has faced a lot of the clubs that your kids play at and it is really interesting for me to read how instead of playing Blues, she might have faced Beach.  That her numerous games v Surf had a lot of drama going on in the background.  Also funny to think that even if our kids are not the same age, many of us have shared venues and lamented about the disgusting porta potties.  (many of you prob were at Surf Cup in 2014 when the parking lot at the Polo Fields turned into a mass of horse crap)


----------



## beachbum

Ellejustus said:


> One more thing about the coach I'm pissed about.  I wish he would have helped my dd prepare for the arrival of the head coach from UCLA who did a surprise visit to our practice.  She had her list and needed to cross some out.  Instead we were told at the last minute that someone from UCLA was coming tomorrow.  I don't know all the ends of out with college recruiting but my dd didn't get the feed back that she was looking for after practice.   All they got from coach was that some of you lost your chance at UCLA.....lol.  Sometimes you miss that one chance.  It wasn't meant to be.  Oh well, 8th grader wasn't ready and AC was forced to make decisions quickly.  North Carolina already got OM as a very young 7th grader.  Thank God NCAA changed the rules.  That is the Light that has replaced the darkness in girls recruiting.


That's the point of a coach popping in, to see how players handle the daily routine.   If they aren't working hard at club practice what are they going to do in college. That's also the reason the come to various games unannounced to see how kids are responding to different situations.  How do they act when they are up 3 goals, down 3 goals etc..  Our kids were always told play your hardest all the time (including warm ups), you never know who is watching


----------



## MakeAPlay

beachbum said:


> That's the point of a coach popping in, to see how players handle the daily routine.   If they aren't working hard at club practice what are they going to do in college. That's also the reason the come to various games unannounced to see how kids are responding to different situations.  How do they act when they are up 3 goals, down 3 goals etc..  Our kids were always told play your hardest all the time (including warm ups), you never know who is watching


Your coach is a wise one....


----------



## MakeAPlay

dk_b said:


> I agree with this so, so much.  When my kid was being recruited, she could have really intelligent conversations with coaches about the game, about her strengths and weaknesses, about tactics.  When they asked about school, she sounded like the kid she was.  I think the school she chose remains the right school for her and I am grateful for that but I think making that decision later will benefit everyone for soccer and non-soccer reasons.  (the day we allowed her to commit was also the day she received her first YNT camp invite. I said to her, "are you sure? You may get more opportunities now" and she was clear:  "Yes." And, sure enough, she received a query (through her coach) that was highly detailed from an interesting suitor.  She remained steadfast:  no regrets)
> 
> BTW:  I have really enjoyed the history lesson covering the recent SoCal Youth Soccer Years.  It is incredible how these decisions impact kids - those with parents in the know and those who are ignorant (when things were shifting in NorCal - around the time that ECNL was being born - those like me with kids at small clubs were really ignorant and it looked like all the Big Clubs (and the parents) were talking about a party that we were not invited to.  That remains but I get to experience it with a kid at a Big Club and kids at a small club).  My kid has faced a lot of the clubs that your kids play at and it is really interesting for me to read how instead of playing Blues, she might have faced Beach.  That her numerous games v Surf had a lot of drama going on in the background.  Also funny to think that even if our kids are not the same age, many of us have shared venues and lamented about the disgusting porta potties.  (many of you prob were at Surf Cup in 2014 when the parking lot at the Polo Fields turned into a mass of horse crap)


That was one of the last years that my kid played at Surf Cup!  2015 was her very last.....


----------



## Ellejustus

beachbum said:


> That's the point of a coach popping in, to see how players handle the daily routine.   If they aren't working hard at club practice what are they going to do in college. That's also the reason the come to various games unannounced to see how kids are responding to different situations.  How do they act when they are up 3 goals, down 3 goals etc..  Our kids were always told play your hardest all the time (including warm ups), you never know who is watching


Was that in 7th and 8th grade?


----------



## Ellejustus

beachbum said:


> That's the point of a coach popping in, to see how players handle the daily routine.   If they aren't working hard at club practice what are they going to do in college. That's also the reason the come to various games unannounced to see how kids are responding to different situations.  How do they act when they are up 3 goals, down 3 goals etc..  Our kids were always told play your hardest all the time (including warm ups), you never know who is watching


Ya, I can see coach Cal and coach K "popping" in on the newest 8th graders.  
AAU coach: Listen Jonny, Coach K is coming to watch you at practice tomorrow.  He wants to see what you and your teammates are all about.  I know your only 5'5 and still in 8th grade and all the other recruits are 6'4.   Were going be doing a rebounding and blocking drill.....
Jonny: Oh!
Jonny: But can't we play a real game. I like to pass the rock and create things. 
AAU Coach:  Sorry, its about development now.  Plus Coach K is strapped and has only so much cash to go around and has to pick fast because freaking Miller just signed Frances Odom, the the phenom 6th grader.  FO just posted *"I will be the greatest in the world" *prediction on youtube.  Time is running out Jonny.  Plus the NBA is going after 4th graders.........  
Jonny at home night before:  Dad, who is coach K again?  
Dad: I told you to watch more college basketball and lift weights so you can stick you ass on those big boys and learn how to box out.  How many hours of basketball have you been watching son?
Jonny:  I don't like watching.  I want to play the game dad.  
Dad: No son, practice practice practice.  
Next Day
AAU Coach:  Coach K saw some potential in you Jonny but like I said before, go to North Dakota State for DA FREE RIDE!!!!!!


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> Ya, I can see coach Cal and coach K "popping" in on the newest 8th graders.
> AAU coach: Listen Jonny, Coach K is coming to watch you at practice tomorrow.  He wants to see what you and your teammates are all about.  I know your only 5'5 and still in 8th grade and all the other recruits are 6'4.   Were going be doing a rebounding and blocking drill.....
> Jonny: Oh!
> Jonny: But can't we play a real game. I like to pass the rock and create things.
> AAU Coach:  Sorry, its about development now.  Plus Coach K is strapped and has only so much cash to go around and has to pick fast because freaking Miller just signed Frances Odom, the the phenom 6th grader.  FO just posted *"I will be the greatest in the world" *prediction on youtube.  Time is running out Jonny.  Plus the NBA is going after 4th graders.........
> Jonny at home night before:  Dad, who is coach K again?
> Dad: I told you to watch more college basketball and lift weights so you can stick you ass on those big boys and learn how to box out.  How many hours of basketball have you been watching son?
> Jonny:  I don't like watching.  I want to play the game dad.
> Dad: No son, practice practice practice.
> Next Day
> AAU Coach:  Coach K saw some potential in you Jonny but like I said before, go to North Dakota State for DA FREE RIDE!!!!!!


Sorry to tell you this but 8th grade is when the top kids start getting recruiting attention in basketball.  It’s a one and done thing.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> Sorry to tell you this but 8th grade is when the top kids start getting recruiting attention in basketball.  It’s a one and done thing.


Attention, not all signed and all money cone by 8th grade.  You said UCLA spent all their money already.  You think coach K and Coach Cal spent all their $$$$ by now for 2022 recruits?  Of course not.  It's over for now on the girls side but that was so wrong bro for everyone.  That's why the rule change.....except for basketball so maybe now they will be signing 7th graders.  Only problem the best one's will say, bye bye and go right to the NBA


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> Attention, not all signed and all money cone by 8th grade.  You said UCLA spent all their money already.  You think coach K and Coach Cal spent all their $$$$ by now for 2022 recruits?  Of course not.  It's over for now on the girls side but that was so wrong bro for everyone.  That's why the rule change.....except for basketball so maybe now they will be signing 7th graders.  Only problem the best one's will say, bye bye and go right to the NBA


The top schools are getting the top players.  It’s that simple.  The players that sit on the bench at the top schools would be starters on most teams.  Where are you getting 8th grade from?  Nobody is committing 8th graders.  

Lots of schools play against the top schools.  No reason not to go to a school in a top conference and prove that you belong.  People do it all the time.  My kid only played for a name brand club her senior year.  Never won a ECNL championship.  But she smashed heads on the top teams every game and that got her noticed. It might work for yours too.


----------



## davin

Ellejustus said:


> Attention, not all signed and all money cone by 8th grade.  You said UCLA spent all their money already.  You think coach K and Coach Cal spent all their $$$$ by now for 2022 recruits?  Of course not.  It's over for now on the girls side but that was so wrong bro for everyone.  That's why the rule change.....except for basketball so maybe now they will be signing 7th graders.  Only problem the best one's will say, bye bye and go right to the NBA


I agree with your point that the recruiting lifecycle in basketball is totally different than soccer. At this point in time, only about 30 of the top 100 class of 2020 basketball players in the country are committed(at least publicly) to a college: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/view/terrific25/sort/rank/order/true

For the top players in the 2022 class, there is *NOT ONE *public commitment available for men's college baskeball.http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2022

Contrast that with women's soccer where some of the top teams have already completed their 2022 class. A lot of things change in 4 years. It's a huge gamble for both the university and the player to commit that early.


----------



## MakeAPlay

davin said:


> I agree with your point that the recruiting lifecycle in basketball is totally different than soccer. At this point in time, only about 30 of the top 100 class of 2020 basketball players in the country are committed(at least publicly) to a college: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/view/terrific25/sort/rank/order/true
> 
> For the top players in the 2022 class, there is *NOT ONE *public commitment available for men's college baskeball.http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2022
> 
> Contrast that with women's soccer where some of the top teams have already completed their 2022 class. A lot of things change in 4 years. It's a huge gamble for both the university and the player to commit that early.


Men’s basketball is a revenue sport!  Players take their 5 trips.  The university makes a huge profit and might even get a building donated by a future NBA player. You are comparing apples to pumpkins...


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> The top schools are getting the top players.  It’s that simple.  The players that sit on the bench at the top schools would be starters on most teams.  Where are you getting 8th grade from?  Nobody is committing 8th graders.


They were watching 8th graders and made verbal offers last year to 8th graders.  Do you think AC or any other coach will need to "pop" in now to see the new incoming 8th graders practice or does a sneak attack during warm ups before the big DA Game is more suited to see the true Sally? Maybe the coach will be hiding among the parents to see how hard little elite, elite Sally is holding up in the big DA game that's already 6-1 at the half?  Sally has 6 goals already.  Coach wants to see what Sally will do in the second half?  Is she going for the third hat trick?  Final: Sally's Team 9, far away DA team 1.  Sally scored 9 goals for a triple hat trick.  College coach is impressed but can't talk to the 14 year old anymore.....yikes!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

davin said:


> I agree with your point that the recruiting lifecycle in basketball is totally different than soccer. At this point in time, only about 30 of the top 100 class of 2020 basketball players in the country are committed(at least publicly) to a college: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/view/terrific25/sort/rank/order/true
> 
> For the top players in the 2022 class, there is *NOT ONE *public commitment available for men's college baskeball.http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2022
> 
> Contrast that with women's soccer where some of the top teams have already completed their 2022 class. A lot of things change in 4 years. It's a huge gamble for both the university and the player to commit that early.


There you go-


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> Men’s basketball is a revenue sport!  Players take their 5 trips.  The university makes a huge profit and might even get a building donated by a future NBA player. You are comparing apples to pumpkins...


No, I'm only comparing the recruiting process MAP.  That's why men's basketball coaches can't take a chance and sign an 8th grader.  But UCLA can sign 3o YNT players because half of them want the education more than actually playing.  Q.  How many girls at UCLA right now get 100% free everything?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> No, I'm only comparing the recruiting process MAP.  That's why men's basketball coaches can't take a chance and sign an 8th grader.  But UCLA can sign 3o YNT players because half of them want the education more than actually playing.  Q.  How many girls at UCLA right now get 100% free everything?


I would say all of them want the education.  You are mistaken if you believe that there aren’t players that want an education and that will also be professional players.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> They were watching 8th graders and made verbal offers last year to 8th graders.  Do you think AC or any other coach will need to "pop" in now to see the new incoming 8th graders practice or does a sneak attack during warm ups before the big DA Game is more suited to see the true Sally? Maybe the coach will be hiding among the parents to see how hard little elite, elite Sally is holding up in the big DA game that's already 6-1 at the half?  Sally has 6 goals already.  Coach wants to see what Sally will do in the second half?  Is she going for the third hat trick?  Final: Sally's Team 9, far away DA team 1.  Sally scored 9 goals for a triple hat trick.  College coach is impressed but can't talk to the 14 year old anymore.....yikes!!!


It’s much simpler than that.  Players that end up at Stanford and UCLA dominate club games and it’s pretty obvious that their individual abilities are outstanding in some way.  They jump out at you!  They are always on.  Even when they aren’t having their best game they are involved in the flow of the game.  I don’t know what to say other than each graduating year in SoCal there are a couple players who are head and shoulders above the rest.  Those are the type of players that do well in those type of environments.  

You should watch Stanford or UCLA train and you would understand.  Those coaches know what they are looking for because they see excellence every day.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> I would say all of them want the education.  You are mistaken if you believe that there aren’t players that want an education and that will also be professional players.


How many of the YNT players who sit for 5 years play pro after their education?  How many players at UCLA get a full ride?


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> It’s much simpler than that.  Players that end up at Stanford and UCLA dominate club games and it’s pretty obvious that their individual abilities are outstanding in some way.  They jump out at you!  They are always on.  Even when they aren’t having their best game they are involved in the flow of the game.  I don’t know what to say other than each graduating year in SoCal there are a couple players who are head and shoulders above the rest.  Those are the type of players that do well in those type of environments.
> 
> You should watch Stanford or UCLA train and you would understand.  Those coaches know what they are looking for because they see excellence every day.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


100% agree.  TY


----------



## oh canada

Girls trying to become the next Taylor Swift or Rihanna have much better odds than those trying to become the next Carli Lloyd or Crystal Dunn.  And can make a helluva lot more coin too.


----------



## timbuck

oh canada said:


> Girls trying to become the next Taylor Swift or Rihanna have much better odds than those trying to become the next Carli Lloyd or Crystal Dunn.  And can make a helluva lot more coin too.


And they probably have parents that are even more crazy than soccer parents.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> How many of the YNT players who sit for 5 years play pro after their education?  How many players at UCLA get a full ride?


What school other than North Carolina has more current pro players than UCLA?  All I know is what I pay and I spend more on my cable bill (and I don’t have HBO) than I have spent on my daughter’s college.  In 9 years of club soccer I spent a little over $30k.  For her entire college education I have spent about what you spend in one season of club (maybe less).

If all that you are looking for is money then unfortunately the top schools have spent it on their purple unicorns.  You know that type of player that comes in as a freshman and impacts the game from day one.  It doesn’t matter when you watch them play because you know that they are going to win their 1v1 battles.  

No need to stress there is an Alexandria out there for your player.  And who knows they already lost 2 players from their 2020 class (although with 13 players they likely weren’t getting much money if any).  Recruiting is an inexact science but some players are can’t miss while others aren’t quite as polished initially.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MWN

Ellejustus said:


> Q.  How many girls at UCLA right now get 100% free everything?


As a NCAA Division I school - Women's Soccer has 14 scholarships to give out and average roster of 28 players.  When you ask about how many get a "full ride" or 100% free everything, the soccer program can give 14 a full ride, or 28 a half-ride or some a full-ride, other's a half-ride and other's 1/3 ride.  Many D1 programs have athletes receiving no scholarship money because the parents/athlete is very wealthy.  Some programs also have dual sport scholarship athletes, receiving a 1/2 ride from soccer and a 1/2 ride from another sport.  Then you look at the academic scholarships and grants, which are merit based and can supplement.

On the boys side the numbers are worse (but this is about girls).

As you move down the line, DII (9.9), DIII (no athletic scholarships) and NAIA (12) the availability of non-athletic scholarships skews the numbers.

I personally don't know how many at UCLA get a full ride, but its less than half.


----------



## MakeAPlay

MWN said:


> As a NCAA Division I school - Women's Soccer has 14 scholarships to give out and average roster of 28 players.  When you ask about how many get a "full ride" or 100% free everything, the soccer program can give 14 a full ride, or 28 a half-ride or some a full-ride, other's a half-ride and other's 1/3 ride.  Many D1 programs have athletes receiving no scholarship money because the parents/athlete is very wealthy.  Some programs also have dual sport scholarship athletes, receiving a 1/2 ride from soccer and a 1/2 ride from another sport.  Then you look at the academic scholarships and grants, which are merit based and can supplement.
> 
> On the boys side the numbers are worse (but this is about girls).
> 
> As you move down the line, DII (9.9), DIII (no athletic scholarships) and NAIA (12) the availability of non-athletic scholarships skews the numbers.
> 
> I personally don't know how many at UCLA get a full ride, but its less than half.


UCLA has 35 players on the roster so that changes the math even further.  Again I only know about my kid's deal and those who have shared with her or myself.  Instate for UCLA is about $28k a year for tuition, fees, books, room and board.  Add $40k a year for out of state or foreign students.  Regardless of what deal someone gets at a PAC 12 or BIG TEN school it is guaranteed for 4 years.  My kid's coaches play whomever will help the team win and that has earned the right to be on the field regardless of what a recruit's "rankings" are.  To me it is the purest form of competition and I know that it is the same at Stanford.  Get the best 11 on the field plus any other players that are going to help the team win.  If that is 13 so be it.  If that is 20 so be it.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> What school other than North Carolina has more current pro players than UCLA?  All I know is what I pay and I spend more on my cable bill (and I don’t have HBO) than I have spent on my daughter’s college.  In 9 years of club soccer I spent a little over $30k.  For her entire college education I have spent about what you spend in one season of club (maybe less).
> 
> If all that you are looking for is money then unfortunately the top schools have spent it on their purple unicorns.  You know that type of player that comes in as a freshman and impacts the game from day one.  It doesn’t matter when you watch them play because you know that they are going to win their 1v1 battles.
> 
> No need to stress there is an Alexandria out there for your player.  And who knows they already lost 2 players from their 2020 class (although with 13 players they likely weren’t getting much money if any).  Recruiting is an inexact science but some players are can’t miss while others aren’t quite as polished initially.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


Your still not answering my Q.  Do you know how many players at UCLA get a full ride?  You see MAP, I'm not very smart and I was always under the impression that everyone was getting a "full ride" in Girls Soccer, at least the Unicorns.  I'm being very serious.  I'm glad that your Unicorn got it all paid for and must importantly, stayed a Unicorn and Purple for that matter   For the record, my dd hasn't had to pay a dime for anything, travel, team fees since she left Blues as an a 11 year old.  Yup, there selling FREE FREE FREE soccer for the Unicorns starting when thier 12 years old in SOCal.  Trust me, she's not the only one either.  Problem is, it's not really *FEEE.  If your paying to be in the DA, I have a sports franchise opportunity I would love to sell you.  So let me say again, I have spend ZERO as I'm sure all the Unicorns now could say. If rich folks are paying $250,000 just to get admitted, then this education stuff is a lot more valuable to Americans than I thought.  I think GIRLS SOCCER in America is CURRUPT!!!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> What school other than North Carolina has more current pro players than UCLA?  All I know is what I pay and I spend more on my cable bill (and I don’t have HBO) than I have spent on my daughter’s college.  In 9 years of club soccer I spent a little over $30k.  For her entire college education I have spent about what you spend in one season of club (maybe less).
> 
> If all that you are looking for is money then unfortunately the top schools have spent it on their purple unicorns.  You know that type of player that comes in as a freshman and impacts the game from day one.  It doesn’t matter when you watch them play because you know that they are going to win their 1v1 battles.
> 
> No need to stress there is an Alexandria out there for your player.  And who knows they already lost 2 players from their 2020 class (although with 13 players they likely weren’t getting much money if any).  Recruiting is an inexact science but some players are can’t miss while others aren’t quite as polished initially.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


And for DA record, this year, I'm paying just like all the others on the team.  Coach called, told me the fees, told me what he will do for my dd and I stroked a check like all the other parents.  I don't want my kid to be a Unicorn.  No special favors.  No FREE anymore.  Just play


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> Your still not answering my Q.  Do you know how many players at UCLA get a full ride?  You see MAP, I'm not very smart and I was always under the impression that everyone was getting a "full ride" in Girls Soccer, at least the Unicorns.  I'm being very serious.  I'm glad that your Unicorn got it all paid for and must importantly, stayed a Unicorn and Purple for that matter   For the record, my dd hasn't had to pay a dime for anything, travel, team fees since she left Blues as an a 11 year old.  Yup, there selling FREE FREE FREE soccer for the Unicorns starting when thier 12 years old in SOCal.  Trust me, she's not the only one either.  Problem is, it's not really *FEEE.  If your paying to be in the DA, I have a sports franchise opportunity I would love to sell you.  So let me say again, I have spend ZERO as I'm sure all the Unicorns now could say. If rich folks are paying $250,000 just to get admitted, then this education stuff is a lot more valuable to Americans than I thought.  I think GIRLS SOCCER in America is CURRUPT!!!!!


Then you are in for a big shock and the pros might be a better destination for your player.  She is too late to get what you are looking for from any good team.  Now there are plenty of schools out there that might give you what you are looking for but unfortunately the best schools don't take risks with big money and only throw it after can't miss players. 

I did answer your question by the way regarding full rides.  I know what I paid.  And regardless whether your 11 year old has been getting a soccer scholarship for club or not, I'm pretty sure that you at least paid for the plane ticket or something else and like I said to you I have paid less for my kid's college education than you have spent on club soccer in one manner or another and that is a fact.  Now of course that doesn't include the $30k that I spent on club soccer to get her there because my kid didn't get a free ride in club.  As a matter of fact, on my kid's old club team I helped pay the travel costs for another player on the team who's family wasn't able to afford it. 

The corruption in Women's soccer comes from two places.  US Soccer who doesn't care as long as they get what they want.  And parents looking for the next best thing instead of realizing that they only way to get what your player is looking for is for her to put her head down and work for it.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> And for DA record, this year, I'm paying just like all the others on the team.  Coach called, told me the fees, told me what he will do for my dd and I stroked a check like all the other parents.  I don't want my kid to be a Unicorn.  No special favors.  No FREE anymore.  Just play


I paid over $30k for club.  Pretty good deal considering I have spent a little more than a 10th of that for a top 20 global university degree for my kid who graduated Magna Cum Laude.  It's not what you spend it's what you get.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MWN

Ellejustus said:


> Your still not answering my Q.  Do you know how many players at UCLA get a full ride?  You see MAP, I'm not very smart and I was always under the impression that everyone was getting a "full ride" in Girls Soccer, at least the Unicorns.  .... So let me say again, I have spend ZERO as I'm sure all the Unicorns now could say. If rich folks are paying $250,000 just to get admitted, then this education stuff is a lot more valuable to Americans than I thought.  I think GIRLS SOCCER in America is CURRUPT!!!!!


@Ellejustus - @MAP did answer your question:



MakeAPlay said:


> UCLA has 35 players on the roster so that changes the math even further.  Again I only know about my kid's deal and those who have shared with her or myself.


To my knowledge scholarship details are not publicly shared.  Its not girls soccer that is corrupt is youth soccer in general.  Too many guys with English accents selling a dream.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> Then you are in for a big shock and the pros might be a better destination for your player.  She is too late to get what you are looking for from any good team.  Now there are plenty of schools out there that might give you what you are looking for but unfortunately the best schools don't take risks with big money and only throw it after can't miss players.
> 
> I did answer your question by the way regarding full rides.  I know what I paid.  And regardless whether your 11 year old has been getting a soccer scholarship for club or not, I'm pretty sure that you at least paid for the plane ticket or something else and like I said to you I have paid less for my kid's college education than you have spent on club soccer in one manner or another and that is a fact.  Now of course that doesn't include the $30k that I spent on club soccer to get her there because my kid didn't get a free ride in club.  As a matter of fact, on my kid's old club team I helped pay the travel costs for another player on the team who's family wasn't able to afford it.
> 
> The corruption in Women's soccer comes from two places.  US Soccer who doesn't care as long as they get what they want.  And parents looking for the next best thing instead of realizing that they only way to get what your player is looking for is for her to put her head down and work for it.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


It's rich person's sport my friend and the reward is a great education for your dd.  For others with a lot of money, they can own a big time club.  It's a business that is tied to higher education and its corrupt to the core.  My dd has no interest in the Unicron schools and 100% agree she lost her chance because she was never interested in those schools (except UCLA when pressed to give up her list of 5 in 7th grade and she muttered, UCLA because of me).  Academic excellence is key here.  My kid is improving a lot but is not at that level and probably never will be.  Tuition is easy part.  Living on campus and all that costs some bucks.  SDSU is $18,000 to live on campus.  I'm glad you could help others out btw.  I see that as one of the only reasons someone should not pay unless the DA is fully funded


----------



## MakeAPlay

MWN said:


> @Ellejustus - @MAP did answer your question:
> 
> 
> 
> To my knowledge scholarship details are not publicly shared.  Its not girls soccer that is corrupt is youth soccer in general.  Too many guys with English accents selling a dream.


Correct.  I know how much I pay and a few others.  My player did not get a full ride.  However, I don't pay very much.  I haven't even spent a half a year's tuition at Cathedral Catholic, Santa Margarita, Junipero Serra, Mater Dei, etc. in her entire 3 years so far.  Anyway you slice it I am happy with my kid's deal as is she.

As you know already it's not what you spend it's what you get.  I'm sure if @Ellejustus  was offered the Mona Lisa for a million bucks he would find a way to come up with that million bucks.

Good luck to you he and both of your players.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> It's rich person's sport my friend and the reward is a great education for your dd.  For others with a lot of money, they can own a big time club.  It's a business that is tied to higher education and its corrupt to the core.  My dd has no interest in the Unicron schools and 100% agree she lost her chance because she was never interested in those schools (except UCLA when pressed to give up her list of 5 in 7th grade and she muttered, UCLA because of me).  Academic excellence is key here.  My kid is improving a lot but is not at that level and probably never will be.  Tuition is easy part.  Living on campus and all that costs some bucks.  SDSU is $18,000 to live on campus.  I'm glad you could help others out btw.  I see that as one of the only reasons someone should not pay unless the DA is fully funded



I have two brothers that are SDSU alums.  One on a football scholarship and one through my dad's GI bill.  It's like $26k a year out the door and is well worth it.  That isn't much more than tuition to Junipero Serra and about half the cost of St. Margaret, Bishops or La Jolla Country Day and includes room and board!  

Personally academic excellence was the best thing that I spent energy and time on regarding my kid.  It was more important than private skills training or anything else.  Without the grades none of what she has accomplished would have been possible.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Ellejustus

MWN said:


> As a NCAA Division I school - Women's Soccer has 14 scholarships to give out and average roster of 28 players.  When you ask about how many get a "full ride" or 100% free everything, the soccer program can give 14 a full ride, or 28 a half-ride or some a full-ride, other's a half-ride and other's 1/3 ride.  Many D1 programs have athletes receiving no scholarship money because the parents/athlete is very wealthy.  Some programs also have dual sport scholarship athletes, receiving a 1/2 ride from soccer and a 1/2 ride from another sport.  Then you look at the academic scholarships and grants, which are merit based and can supplement.
> 
> On the boys side the numbers are worse (but this is about girls).
> 
> As you move down the line, DII (9.9), DIII (no athletic scholarships) and NAIA (12) the availability of non-athletic scholarships skews the numbers.
> 
> I personally don't know how many at UCLA get a full ride, but its less than half.


I know now what I didn't know 2 years ago. That makes me smarter, right? Anyone who has read my posts or knows me personally know that I honesty did not know how much this is ALL about college.  Coaches should sell "Scholarship" if your still playing as a soph, have the grades and the desire for higher education.  It should not pushed down the throat of 7th and 8th graders.  I think it's embarrassing that the head COACH at UCLA came to our Surf practice to "pop" in.  She actually said to my dd group, "The 06's did that drill better than you."  No joke!!!  I thought "scholarship" means FREE RIDE.  I don't think I'm the only one.  Once you start asking questions you soon realize it's "scholarship money toward the bill."  UCLA has 37 on the roster according to MAP.  Before the rule change, my dd would tell me every week that so and so just committed to UCLA, CAL, Duke, U of A, ASU, WSU and so on from Instagram.  The PERCEPTION is that she got a free ride playing soccer.  Look, I have friends & family expecting to get that same instgram notification from my kid in a year or so.  I'm starting to feel the pressure.....yikes.  It was free when she was 12 and 13 but now it looks like I have to pay for her to go to school if she still wants to play soccer past HS?  MAP did think she might be suited better for the PROS.  Let me see, no YNT call up, no money to be made in DA Pros, ya I'm not seeing that either for her.  Just quit honey because we have nothing really for you unless you want to go to college and play far far away from SoCal so its almost free and you can try and beat the Unicrons.  Sounds like a challenge. If she doesn't go to college than what the hell have we been doing all these years driving around SoCal looking to play soccer games?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> . If she doesn't go to college than what the hell have we been doing all these years driving around SoCal looking to play soccer games?


Building good character?  Spending time with her dad?  If my kid never got a penny for soccer that would have made the $30k worth it.  Let me ask you this.  Is it you asking what they hell have you been doing or is it your daughter?  If it is you, then you have to just chill and let the process work itself out.  If it is your daughter you have to just have her put her head down and grind, whether that is on the pitch or in study hall.

There are many roads to Rome but NONE OF THEM ARE EASY.

Continued good luck to you and your player.


----------



## soccer661

Very similar situation to MAP...we paid ALOT for club soccer... (sometimes I call it "paying for the scholarship early") but wouldn't change it for anything...a crazy club soccer journey filled with amazing memories-- lots of ups and downs, life lessons -- & the "downs" just made my DD stronger--a better teammate and person, also focused very hard on academics- most important focus for having the education/career after the soccer is over.
And now my DD is extremely happy at her University, getting an amazing education while still playing the sport she loves with teammates she'd run thru a brickwall for...and getting scholarship $$ now towards tutition...so for us the cost of club (mostly ECNL & then DA the last year) completely paid off.  Relax a bit and try to ENJOY THE JOURNEY!! Yes, it can be stressful but it's over before you know it...Good luck to your DD's!!


----------



## MakeAPlay

soccer661 said:


> Very similar situation to MAP...we paid ALOT for club soccer... (sometimes I call it "paying for the scholarship early") but wouldn't change it for anything...a crazy club soccer journey filled with amazing memories-- lots of ups and downs, life lessons -- & the "downs" just made my DD stronger--a better teammate and person, also focused very hard on academics- most important focus for having the education/career after the soccer is over.
> And now my DD is extremely happy at her University, getting an amazing education while still playing the sport she loves with teammates she'd run thru a brickwall for...and getting scholarship $$ now towards tutition...so for us the cost of club (mostly ECNL & then DA the last year) completely paid off.  Relax a bit and try to ENJOY THE JOURNEY!! Yes, it can be stressful but it's over before you know it...Good luck to your DD's!!


And your kid has my vote for president in 16 1/2 years!  She better drain that swamp!


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> Building good character?  Spending time with her dad?  If my kid never got a penny for soccer that would have made the $30k worth it.  Let me ask you this.  Is it you asking what they hell have you been doing or is it your daughter?  If it is you, then you have to just chill and let the process work itself out.  If it is your daughter you have to just have her put her head down and grind, whether that is on the pitch or in study hall.
> 
> There are many roads to Rome but NONE OF THEM ARE EASY.
> 
> Continued good luck to you and your player.


It's both of us asking MAP.  She's my little unicorn bro.  My little me.  One of my best, best friends.  We drove around SoCal looking to play *competitive* soccer.  I already gave advice before if you have a 10 year that is fast, stay home and play local.  Were both competitive and she never complained until now, because, because ,because.


----------



## Ellejustus

soccer661 said:


> Very similar situation to MAP...we paid ALOT for club soccer... (sometimes I call it "paying for the scholarship early") but wouldn't change it for anything...a crazy club soccer journey filled with amazing memories-- lots of ups and downs, life lessons -- & the "downs" just made my DD stronger--a better teammate and person, also focused very hard on academics- most important focus for having the education/career after the soccer is over.
> And now my DD is extremely happy at her University, getting an amazing education while still playing the sport she loves with teammates she'd run thru a brickwall for...and getting scholarship $$ now towards tutition...so for us the cost of club (mostly ECNL & then DA the last year) completely paid off.  Relax a bit and try to ENJOY THE JOURNEY!! Yes, it can be stressful but it's over before you know it...Good luck to your DD's!!


Did your college recruiting process start in 7th grade?


----------



## beachbum

I agree with most of the rule changes with one exception that i think is


Ellejustus said:


> Ya, I can see coach Cal and coach K "popping" in on the newest 8th graders.
> AAU coach: Listen Jonny, Coach K is coming to watch you at practice tomorrow.  He wants to see what you and your teammates are all about.  I know your only 5'5 and still in 8th grade and all the other recruits are 6'4.   Were going be doing a rebounding and blocking drill.....
> Jonny: Oh!
> Jonny: But can't we play a real game. I like to pass the rock and create things.
> AAU Coach:  Sorry, its about development now.  Plus Coach K is strapped and has only so much cash to go around and has to pick fast because freaking Miller just signed Frances Odom, the the phenom 6th grader.  FO just posted *"I will be the greatest in the world" *prediction on youtube.  Time is running out Jonny.  Plus the NBA is going after 4th graders.........
> Jonny at home night before:  Dad, who is coach K again?
> Dad: I told you to watch more college basketball and lift weights so you can stick you ass on those big boys and learn how to box out.  How many hours of basketball have you been watching son?
> Jonny:  I don't like watching.  I want to play the game dad.
> Dad: No son, practice practice practice.
> Next Day
> AAU Coach:  Coach K saw some potential in you Jonny but like I said before, go to North Dakota State for DA FREE RIDE!!!!!!


They were watching 8th graders and made verbal offers last year to 8th graders. Do you think AC or any other coach will need to "pop" in now to see the new incoming 8th graders practice or does a sneak attack during warm ups before the big DA Game is more suited to see the true Sally? Maybe the coach will be hiding among the parents to see how hard little elite, elite Sally is holding up in the big DA game that's already 6-1 at the half? Sally has 6 goals already. Coach wants to see what Sally will do in the second half? Is she going for the third hat trick? Final: Sally's Team 9, far away DA team 1. Sally scored 9 goals for a triple hat trick. College coach is impressed but can't talk to the 14 year old anymore.....yikes!!!


Wow i don't know why you seem so angry, people on here just trying to help and give advice on what their experiences were. 
That being said, if you don't think Coach K and his staff, in fact all top college staffs don't pop in unexpectedly to AAU games and practice or high school games and practice you have no clue, because they do.  The bigger name coaches can't do it incognito but many of their staff, can and do. 
From my personal experience in girls club soccer, coaches including power 5 schools both local and out of state have shown up to practice and games unannounced looking at 8th and 9th graders.  This will not change with the new rules as the college coaches can still communicate to club coaches to express any interest and talk about players.
IMO the new rules are no good.  The rule where the kids can call the coaches and coaches can't call back should be fine from 9th grade and up, not before.  Unofficial visits should be allowed during that same time frame.  This gives players a chance to visit colleges on their own nickel , communicate with the coaches (to see if its a good fit for both parties) without trying to cram everything into a very shortened time frame during their junior year.  What should have been changed is no verbal offers and verbal acceptance of those offers should not be allowed until their junior year.  

Their work around for visits and communication will be to get kids into their camps through the club coaches, instead of unofficial visits

As far as Coach K having cash available,  Head count sports are very different than equivalency sports.  Soccer is a Equivalency Sport, 14 scholarships for 22 -35 players

*Head count sports are always full rides.* But they only include revenue sports: for men, that’s DI basketball and DI-A football; for women, it’s DI basketball, tennis, volleyball and gymnastics.
*Equivalency sports usually hand out partial scholarships*


----------



## Dubs

beachbum said:


> That's the point of a coach popping in, to see how players handle the daily routine.   If they aren't working hard at club practice what are they going to do in college. That's also the reason the come to various games unannounced to see how kids are responding to different situations.  How do they act when they are up 3 goals, down 3 goals etc..  Our kids were always told play your hardest all the time (including warm ups), you never know who is watching


My DD has experienced all the above... The club/coach sets the tone and it is consistency that college coaches are looking for both in practice and in games.  There are coaches that routinely show up at DDs practices.. Sometimes the coach will alert the girls and others not.  Our coach has done a really good job in helping to create the mindset through the training environement.  If you're in a situation like this, where coaches are always showing up to practice and games, chances are you have made the right choice for your DD in terms of coach/team.


----------



## soccer661

Ellejustus said:


> Did your college recruiting process start in 7th grade?


No no no-- not 7th grade...a bit towards end of 8th grade, but not serious...9th grade got more serious...especially that spring/summer and then she committed in fall of 10th grade...which still was earlier than most of her teammates, but it was one of her dream schools...so made decision early.


----------



## MWN

Ellejustus said:


> I know now what I didn't know 2 years ago. That makes me smarter, right? Anyone who has read my posts or knows me personally know that I honesty did not know how much this is ALL about college.  Coaches should sell "Scholarship" if your still playing as a soph, ...


Since you don't know what you don't know and know you don't know, let me further shed some light:

Once upon a time ...
College coaches could extend verbal scholarship offers to athletes of any age, but ... verbal scholarship offers from a coach to any athlete are all non-binding, meaning the Coach can rescind the offer and the player is not bound to sign down the road.  The athlete can accept a verbal offer and continue to be recruited and visit schools.  All offers to 11 and 12 year olds are verbal offers, intended to motivate the athlete to continue down the path.  Most college coaches have every intention of making verbal offers official, but must wait for the National Letter of Intent period.

Today ...
the NCAA has closed many of the loopholes that existed and for soccer (money sports (football, M/W basketball and baseball) are excluded) the current rule is college coaches are not allowed to extend a verbal scholarship offer to student-athletes before June 15 after their sophomore year or September 1 of their Junior year.

What this means for you, is you are getting worked up about a problem that has been fixed by the NCAA (assuming D1 and D2)

But ... verbal is non-binding and only until the athlete has signed a Letter of Intent is there a binding scholarship offer made and accepted.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> Did your college recruiting process start in 7th grade?


I know you’re not asking me, but I’m going to interject as we are playing in the same sandbox. We had schools reaching out in 7th grade.  Not making offers, but contacting our coach and emailing us with what they can “legally” say due to NCAA regulations. We were also asked by our Coach to list your Top 5 schools and encouraged to email those schools. 

Like yours, my DD wasn’t interested because, “ Dad, I’m only in 7th grade”.  “True, so let’s use this as the dry run/practice and just reach out to a few we know as well as the ones on your list.  Cause as a 7th grader, it won’t really matter.  But is a great exercise for you.”

Sometimes we have to step back and remove the perceived pressure from the situation and see it for what it is. 

Your DD is going to do just fine as long as she does what she does and has fun doing it!


----------



## beachbum

Ellejustus said:


> Did your college recruiting process start in 7th grade?


Started beginning of 8th grade year, very heavy towards the end of her 8th grade year,  first unofficial and offer in Sept of freshmen year, verbally committed April of her freshman year. About 12-15 visits during freshman year - all but 2 offered at the time, 2 that didn't offer said when your ready let us know, which she did and one of those two is the one she picked.  BTW they all know what the other has offered somehow.


----------



## beachbum

Ellejustus said:


> I know now what I didn't know 2 years ago. That makes me smarter, right? Anyone who has read my posts or knows me personally know that I honesty did not know how much this is ALL about college.  Coaches should sell "Scholarship" if your still playing as a soph, have the grades and the desire for higher education.  It should not pushed down the throat of 7th and 8th graders.  I think it's embarrassing that the head COACH at UCLA came to our Surf practice to "pop" in.  She actually said to my dd group, "The 06's did that drill better than you."  No joke!!!  I thought "scholarship" means FREE RIDE.  I don't think I'm the only one.  Once you start asking questions you soon realize it's "scholarship money toward the bill."  UCLA has 37 on the roster according to MAP.  Before the rule change, my dd would tell me every week that so and so just committed to UCLA, CAL, Duke, U of A, ASU, WSU and so on from Instagram.  The PERCEPTION is that she got a free ride playing soccer.  Look, I have friends & family expecting to get that same instgram notification from my kid in a year or so.  I'm starting to feel the pressure.....yikes.  It was free when she was 12 and 13 but now it looks like I have to pay for her to go to school if she still wants to play soccer past HS?  MAP did think she might be suited better for the PROS.  Let me see, no YNT call up, no money to be made in DA Pros, ya I'm not seeing that either for her.  Just quit honey because we have nothing really for you unless you want to go to college and play far far away from SoCal so its almost free and you can try and beat the Unicrons.  Sounds like a challenge. If she doesn't go to college than what the hell have we been doing all these years driving around SoCal looking to play soccer games?


Last thing I'll say on this.  If your dd loves soccer and wants to continue that into college, let her.  I may have missed this but i don't know what year/age your daughter is.  She may be interested now but that could all change in high school as I have seen with so many kids.  

DA and ECNL are not the only paths to college just the easier paths.  

As far as the money goes, don't count on the athletic part, count on the academic part whether or not she continues soccer in college (she should pick the college that suits her best not the scholarship that gets her the most).  As i think MAP said most college scholarships except for power 5, are year by year anyway.  

Every college coach that we talked to always asked what kind of student our player was.  This is in their best interest, if they can get academic money to help cover tuition it allows their athletic money to go further.

Good luck to you and your daughter, try to enjoy the ride


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> I know you’re not asking me, but I’m going to interject as we are playing in the same sandbox. We had schools reaching out in 7th grade.  Not making offers, but contacting our coach and emailing us with what they can “legally” say due to NCAA regulations. We were also asked by our Coach to list your Top 5 schools and encouraged to email those schools.
> 
> Like yours, my DD wasn’t interested because, “ Dad, I’m only in 7th grade”.  “True, so let’s use this as the dry run/practice and just reach out to a few we know as well as the ones on your list.  Cause as a 7th grader, it won’t really matter.  But is a great exercise for you.”
> 
> Sometimes we have to step back and remove the perceived pressure from the situation and see it for what it is.
> 
> Your DD is going to do just fine as long as she does what she does and has fun doing it!


It goes like this Kicker:  Soccer Coach to 8th grader:  Rules are changing, money is leaving soon......pick NOW!!!!!!  Kid:  But, but
I understand its all over but now all the $$$$$$$ are gone at the Unicorn schools......hahahahahahahahahahaaha


----------



## Ellejustus

beachbum said:


> Started beginning of 8th grade year, very heavy towards the end of her 8th grade year,  first unofficial and offer in Sept of freshmen year, verbally committed April of her freshman year. About 12-15 visits during freshman year - all but 2 offered at the time, 2 that didn't offer said when your ready let us know, which she did and one of those two is the one she picked.  BTW they all know what the other has offered somehow.


You are in the top 20%.  I want to hear other stories of not going so well........I'm super happy it's is going well for your dd, truly I am.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> It goes like this Kicker:  Soccer Coach to 8th grader:  Rules are changing, money is leaving soon......pick NOW!!!!!!  Kid:  But, but
> I understand its all over but now all the $$$$$$$ are gone at the Unicorn schools......hahahahahahahahahahaaha


Out of curiosity, what exactly was she being pressured about?  I mean, if she was indeed being told to hurry up and pick, what was she picking?  Where offers being made even though she never contacted a school?


----------



## MakeAPlay

beachbum said:


> Last thing I'll say on this.  If your dd loves soccer and wants to continue that into college, let her.  I may have missed this but i don't know what year/age your daughter is.  She may be interested now but that could all change in high school as I have seen with so many kids.
> 
> DA and ECNL are not the only paths to college just the easier paths.
> 
> As far as the money goes, don't count on the athletic part, count on the academic part whether or not she continues soccer in college (she should pick the college that suits her best not the scholarship that gets her the most).  As i think MAP said most college scholarships except for power 5, are year by year anyway.
> 
> Every college coach that we talked to always asked what kind of student our player was.  This is in their best interest, if they can get academic money to help cover tuition it allows their athletic money to go further.
> 
> Good luck to you and your daughter, try to enjoy the ride


Please everyone read this post as it is sage advice and I tell you this looking in the rear view mirror.


----------



## Ellejustus

beachbum said:


> Last thing I'll say on this.  If your dd loves soccer and wants to continue that into college, let her.  I may have missed this but i don't know what year/age your daughter is.  She may be interested now but that could all change in high school as I have seen with so many kids.
> 
> DA and ECNL are not the only paths to college just the easier paths.
> 
> As far as the money goes, don't count on the athletic part, count on the academic part whether or not she continues soccer in college (she should pick the college that suits her best not the scholarship that gets her the most).  As i think MAP said most college scholarships except for power 5, are year by year anyway.
> 
> Every college coach that we talked to always asked what kind of student our player was.  This is in their best interest, if they can get academic money to help cover tuition it allows their athletic money to go further.
> 
> Good luck to you and your daughter, try to enjoy the ride


The ride is much better now.  But the last two years was a little of a pressure cooker that I don't think any of you old timers daughters had to go through.  That's the whole point of the DA debate. My dd just wants to PLAY.  She's 15 and is playing HS and ECNL now after being asked to be one of the first rats (Unicorns) to experience this new "Developmental League" called the DA.  I'm mad at the process of putting 12 and 13 year olds through the meat grinder with the help of US Soccer, Surf and UCLA all by the time their 13 years old.  It s a BUSINESS to get into college, pure and simple.  All you who say, "that's awesome, you a had so and so at your practice" or "Coach K is going all around "poping" in to all the AAU basketball courts with 7th and 8th graders and telling the AAU coach to tell his players they better make a decision by the beginning of 9th grade or $$$ will go to someone else.......that's laughable.  Coach K is only coming over to say, "hi" to let said recruit,  "I like you." My kid is very happy and I am too.  This is the forum to drop off my toxic gas, right?


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Out of curiosity, what exactly was she being pressured about?  I mean, if she was indeed being told to hurry up and pick, what was she picking?  Where offers being made even though she never contacted a school?


First, send your list of 5.  No college coach can call you, right?  So all the 7th and 8th graders write an email (mind never did) with the same old stuff and then your told 100 college coaches watched her game at the DA SHOWCASE SHOWDOWN.  If your coach and DOC are professional than maybe you will get some good information for later but that was not happening with the RULE CHANGES coming in May 2019. College coach:  Look, thanks for calling me Sally.  Your amazing, I need a Center Back for your class and your my #1 favorite.  I need an answer by Monday or I will call my 2nd favorite CB and so on.  Player: Ok, thanks coach for being patient and allowing me the time to consider the next four years, I mean in four years consider the next four years of my life.  Player laying bed Sunday night wondering WTF to do.......that is INSANE!!!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> First, send your list of 5.  No college coach can call you, right?  So all the 7th and 8th graders write an email (mind never did) with the same old stuff and then your told 100 college coaches watched her game at the DA SHOWCASE SHOWDOWN.  If your coach and DOC are professional than maybe you will get some good information for later but that was not happening with the RULE CHANGES coming in May 2019. College coach:  Look, thanks for calling me Sally.  Your amazing, I need a Center Back for your class and your my #1 favorite.  I need an answer by Monday or I will call my 2nd favorite CB and so on.  Player: Ok, thanks coach for being patient and allowing me the time to consider the next four years, I mean in four years consider the next four years of my life.  Player laying bed Sunday night wondering WTF to do.......that is INSANE!!!!!


Coach text back and asks, "I forgot to ask what your grades are like?


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> First, send your list of 5.  No college coach can call you, right?  So all the 7th and 8th graders write an email (mind never did) with the same old stuff and then your told 100 college coaches watched her game at the DA SHOWCASE SHOWDOWN.  If your coach and DOC are professional than maybe you will get some good information for later but that was not happening with the RULE CHANGES coming in May 2019. College coach:  Look, thanks for calling me Sally.  Your amazing, I need a Center Back for your class and your my #1 favorite.  I need an answer by Monday or I will call my 2nd favorite CB and so on.  Player: Ok, thanks coach for being patient and allowing me the time to consider the next four years, I mean in four years consider the next four years of my life.  Player laying bed Sunday night wondering WTF to do.......that is INSANE!!!!!


You’re Roll playing something and making a lot of assumptions that aren’t the reality in my experience.


----------



## Dubs

Ellejustus said:


> First, send your list of 5.  No college coach can call you, right?  So all the 7th and 8th graders write an email (mind never did) with the same old stuff and then your told 100 college coaches watched her game at the DA SHOWCASE SHOWDOWN.  If your coach and DOC are professional than maybe you will get some good information for later but that was not happening with the RULE CHANGES coming in May 2019. College coach:  Look, thanks for calling me Sally.  Your amazing, I need a Center Back for your class and your my #1 favorite.  I need an answer by Monday or I will call my 2nd favorite CB and so on.  Player: Ok, thanks coach for being patient and allowing me the time to consider the next four years, I mean in four years consider the next four years of my life.  Player laying bed Sunday night wondering WTF to do.......that is INSANE!!!!!


Look... I think we can all agree that the process (pre-rule change) was insane.  My DD was part of the insanity (commited Oct. of last year early part of her Sophomore year), but what tempered that was our family making sure she understood what was going on and what she needed to do in order to make informed decisions.  We made sure to expose her to different schools and the pros/cons associated.  All along the way making sure her aspirations/goals weren't pipe dreams with her coach and DOC.  As MAP and others have always said, picking the school based on academic merit is primary.  Once that is narrowed down go from there.  My DD has always had college/education on her mind from early age because we planted that seed.  That said, she also wants to be a pro, so the soccer part was of equal importance.  Sure ideas change and motivations change... I get that, but you have to be able to discern what is real, what is chatter and what ultimately makes your kid tick & guide them accordingly.  Each recruiting process is different for each individual.  You can/should take tips from this forum (which are fantastic and helped me through my daughter's recruitment), but the journey is hers and your family's alone.  The shit you're hearing regarding making quick decisions is the "chatter" I'm talking about.   From what you say, it sounds like your DD will not have a shortage of options.  Weigh them all with her when she's ready and make informed decisions that works for her and your family, in terms of the school, the soccer and the financials.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> You’re Roll playing something and making a lot of assumptions that aren’t the reality in my experience.


Keep in mind Kicker your dd is 2023.  No pressure for most 2023s but I could imagine if I put myself in your shoes (I do that sometimes) your dd would feel a tad little more pressure than the other Unicorns (total joke, you know me, I hope) because of a certain list she is on?  Are you saying you had no "opportunities" that someone was telling you could happen if you pick up the phone?   The top Unicorns in 2022 had pressure if they wanted $$$$$$$$ towards school and have 90% paid for or more.  How do you think the phone calls went with them?  Just curious.  Today's 7th or 8th grader grader won't be having that phone call now. which is soooooooooo gooooooooooood for our DAUGHTERS.  I'm happy your dd got to practice her phone calling and I mean that with respect.  I know other 2022s who did it for that reason as well.  I am starting to get concerned for some of them because maybe they, shoulda, coulda, woulda taken the deal $$$ at ASU instaed of hoping USC or UCLA will coma knocking.  Maybe they still will????  Come on Kicker, were not hearing about the other 8 that it went horrible for.  MAP and few are stoked and that's great for them.


----------



## Ellejustus

Dubs said:


> Look... I think we can all agree that the process (pre-rule change) was insane.  My DD was part of the insanity (commited Oct. of last year early part of her Sophomore year), but what tempered that was our family making sure she understood what was going on and what she needed to do in order to make informed decisions.  We made sure to expose her to different schools and the pros/cons associated.  All along the way making sure her aspirations/goals weren't pipe dreams with her coach and DOC.  As MAP and others have always said, picking the school based on academic merit is primary.  Once that is narrowed down go from there.  My DD has always had college/education on her mind from early age because we planted that seed.  That said, she also wants to be a pro, so the soccer part was of equal importance.  Sure ideas change and motivations change... I get that, but you have to be able to discern what is real, what is chatter and what ultimately makes your kid tick & guide them accordingly.  Each recruiting process is different for each individual.  You can/should take tips from this forum (which are fantastic and helped me through my daughter's recruitment), but the journey is hers and your family's alone.  The shit you're hearing regarding making quick decisions is the "chatter" I'm talking about.   From what you say, it sounds like your DD will not have a shortage of options.  Weigh them all with her when she's ready and make informed decisions that works for her and your family, in terms of the school, the soccer and the financials.


*(commited Oct. of last year early part of her Sophomore year).*  Older forum folks keep saying stuff like this.  Thanks for the info though.
Many, not all 2022s went through hell pressure wise, trust me!!!!  College coaches were begging for kids to call.  TRUST ME!!!!!  In 6th grade DOCs or coaches called me to ask for my dd services because she was a hell of a playa.   In 8th grade the coaches called again (dd is free agent, wants to play HS) and it went like this.  
ECNL COACH:  Where do you want to play in college?  
DD: Not sure I want to.  
Coach:  Good bye
Next Coach: Your amazing soccer player.  We sure could use some help!!!!! BTW, where you be wanting to play soccer in college? How your grades?  
DD:  Not sure I want to play in college.  
Coach:  Then why you here.  
I have more but you get the point.  She actually found a great TEAM and is happy to be just one of the beautiful unicorns that all of our daughters are despite how tall, fast or big they are in 7th grade.  All players who take to the pitch are all beautiful unicorns   Some are smarter than the other ones, been given God given talent, blessed with parents that have the means to pay for it and are just better than the rest of us and because of that, they can play at UNICORN U.  Trying to get 13 year olds to train 10 months out of the year to be the next Alex Morgan or OM is insane.  However, if they fail at that their next task is getting a 4.5 GPA and be a hell of a playa is just as insane.  This is why we will lose to Spain or some other EURO team next world cup.  We all watched the games this year.  Thank God for PKs.  Show my dd the $$$$, not college and she might start training every day   This pathway is full of snakes and their everywhere.


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## MakeAPlay

&


Dubs said:


> Look... I think we can all agree that the process (pre-rule change) was insane.  My DD was part of the insanity (commited Oct. of last year early part of her Sophomore year), but what tempered that was our family making sure she understood what was going on and what she needed to do in order to make informed decisions.  We made sure to expose her to different schools and the pros/cons associated.  All along the way making sure her aspirations/goals weren't pipe dreams with her coach and DOC.  As MAP and others have always said, picking the school based on academic merit is primary.  Once that is narrowed down go from there.  My DD has always had college/education on her mind from early age because we planted that seed.  That said, she also wants to be a pro, so the soccer part was of equal importance.  Sure ideas change and motivations change... I get that, but you have to be able to discern what is real, what is chatter and what ultimately makes your kid tick & guide them accordingly.  Each recruiting process is different for each individual.  You can/should take tips from this forum (which are fantastic and helped me through my daughter's recruitment), but the journey is hers and your family's alone.  The shit you're hearing regarding making quick decisions is the "chatter" I'm talking about.   From what you say, it sounds like your DD will not have a shortage of options.  Weigh them all with her when she's ready and make informed decisions that works for her and your family, in terms of the school, the soccer and the financials.


#TRUTH......  Great post.


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## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> *(commited Oct. of last year early part of her Sophomore year).*  Older forum folks keep saying stuff like this.  Thanks for the info though.
> Many, not all 2022s went through hell pressure wise, trust me!!!!  College coaches were begging for kids to call.  TRUST ME!!!!!  In 6th grade DOCs or coaches called me to ask for my dd services because she was a hell of a playa.   In 8th grade the coaches called again (dd is free agent, wants to play HS) and it went like this.
> ECNL COACH:  Where do you want to play in college?
> DD: Not sure I want to.
> Coach:  Good bye
> Next Coach: Your amazing soccer player.  We sure could use some help!!!!! BTW, where you be wanting to play soccer in college? How your grades?
> DD:  Not sure I want to play in college.
> Coach:  Then why you here.
> I have more but you get the point.  She actually found a great TEAM and is happy to be just one of the beautiful unicorns that all of our daughters are despite how tall, fast or big they are in 7th grade.  All players who take to the pitch are all beautiful unicorns   Some are smarter than the other ones, been given God given talent, blessed with parents that have the means to pay for it and are just better than the rest of us and because of that, they can play at UNICORN U.  Trying to get 13 year olds to train 10 months out of the year to be the next Alex Morgan or OM is insane.  However, if they fail at that their next task is getting a 4.5 GPA and be a hell of a playa is just as insane.  This is why we will lose to Spain or some other EURO team next world cup.  We all watched the games this year.  Thank God for PKs.  Show my dd the $$$$, not college and she might start training every day   This pathway is full of snakes and their everywhere.



I think that Mr. Miyagi has the best advice for your situation:








Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Ellejustus

Dubs said:


> Look... I think we can all agree that the process (pre-rule change) was insane.  My DD was part of the insanity (commited Oct. of last year early part of her Sophomore year), but what tempered that was our family making sure she understood what was going on and what she needed to do in order to make informed decisions.  We made sure to expose her to different schools and the pros/cons associated.  All along the way making sure her aspirations/goals weren't pipe dreams with her coach and DOC.  As MAP and others have always said, picking the school based on academic merit is primary.  Once that is narrowed down go from there.  My DD has always had college/education on her mind from early age because we planted that seed.  That said, she also wants to be a pro, so the soccer part was of equal importance.  Sure ideas change and motivations change... I get that, but you have to be able to discern what is real, what is chatter and what ultimately makes your kid tick & guide them accordingly.  Each recruiting process is different for each individual.  You can/should take tips from this forum (which are fantastic and helped me through my daughter's recruitment), but the journey is hers and your family's alone.  The shit you're hearing regarding making quick decisions is the "chatter" I'm talking about.   From what you say, it sounds like your DD will not have a shortage of options.  Weigh them all with her when she's ready and make informed decisions that works for her and your family, in terms of the school, the soccer and the financials.


The shit you're hearing regarding making quick decisions is the "chatter" I'm talking about.  
Its not chatter.....its true.  It already happened.  You think I would be on here to make this shit up?  Before, UCLA would hold on to their "tickets" into paradise until a little later like sophomore year.  All the top coaches new about the "new rule."  Your kid got to wait a little longer, right?  Still bad but better.  "Attention K Mart Shoppers, the NCAA has changed the rules for the girls.  However, they have two months to find 8 studs (really been watching from a far probably since 6th grade) so send your emails quickly and set up your phone call through your trusted coach who only has the best in mind for your dd.....hurry,
hurry, hurry.......


----------



## beachbum

Ellejustus said:


> You are in the top 20%.  I want to hear other stories of not going so well........I'm super happy it's is going well for your dd, truly I am.





Ellejustus said:


> The ride is much better now.  But the last two years was a little of a pressure cooker that I don't think any of you old timers daughters had to go through.  That's the whole point of the DA debate. My dd just wants to PLAY.  She's 15 and is playing HS and ECNL now after being asked to be one of the first rats (Unicorns) to experience this new "Developmental League" called the DA.  I'm mad at the process of putting 12 and 13 year olds through the meat grinder with the help of US Soccer, Surf and UCLA all by the time their 13 years old.  It s a BUSINESS to get into college, pure and simple.  All you who say, "that's awesome, you a had so and so at your practice" or "Coach K is going all around "poping" in to all the AAU basketball courts with 7th and 8th graders and telling the AAU coach to tell his players they better make a decision by the beginning of 9th grade or $$$ will go to someone else.......that's laughable.  Coach K is only coming over to say, "hi" to let said recruit,  "I like you." My kid is very happy and I am too.  This is the forum to drop off my toxic gas, right?


I agree the process was not good in the past and my daughter felt all the pressure of the coaches even though we had let them know that we would not be choosing a college until the following summer.  That being said i'm not sure it's going to be any better in the future.  In the past from my experience it worked something like this:  YNT "unicorns" (2-4 players on top level teams ECNL/DA) verbally committed freshman year/early sophomore year for the most part, then you had a few (2-3)of the next level players go during their sophomore year then literally everyone else if they wanted to play soccer committed their junior year sometime and maybe a few stragglers lasted into their senior year.  Our entire team was more or less done by their senior year. 

I don't really know how the process is going to work now.  Is it going to be a free for all after June 15th of their sophomore year because you now have 2700 girls chasing the money?  How can coaches make offers June 15th if they really haven't spoken to the kids.  Are player/parents going to have to do numerous unofficial tours during the summer between sophomore and junior years.   It's going to be crazy next June 15th for the 2022 class when 2700 of the 2800 girls try to figure out what is available to them and the coaches running around trying to figure out who is available to them.  We were fortunate and grateful that my daughter was recruited early due to her God given ability and her hard work but It wasn't easy and the pressure is real.  All that being said, i'm not sure the new rules are better, we will have to wait and see.

Bottom line is there are plenty of opportunities for players of all different abilities in this country including about 4690 DI scholarships (335 DI soccer schools x 14) which probably  means about 10,000 female athletes will get some money for D1 soccer.  That doesn't count the opportunities for DII, DIII and NAIA.

Good luck to all of you now going through the recruiting process and as hard as it is, try to have fun with it.

Just FYI, i think youth soccer is more screwed up now than it ever has been before and the USSF and parents (I include myself in this category) are to blame.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> Keep in mind Kicker your dd is 2023.  No pressure for most 2023s but I could imagine if I put myself in your shoes (I do that sometimes) your dd would feel a tad little more pressure than the other Unicorns (total joke, you know me, I hope) because of a certain list she is on?  Are you saying you had no "opportunities" that someone was telling you could happen if you pick up the phone?   The top Unicorns in 2022 had pressure if they wanted $$$$$$$$ towards school and have 90% paid for or more.  How do you think the phone calls went with them?  Just curious.  Today's 7th or 8th grader grader won't be having that phone call now. which is soooooooooo gooooooooooood for our DAUGHTERS.  I'm happy your dd got to practice her phone calling and I mean that with respect.  I know other 2022s who did it for that reason as well.  I am starting to get concerned for some of them because maybe they, shoulda, coulda, woulda taken the deal $$$ at ASU instaed of hoping USC or UCLA will coma knocking.  Maybe they still will????  Come on Kicker, were not hearing about the other 8 that it went horrible for.  MAP and few are stoked and that's great for them.


90% of her closest friends are 2022’s.  I’ve spent a lot of time with these parents and have listened and watched intently.  Some are YNT players, some are DA and some ECNL.  When I say “my experience” I’m not just talking about my DD’s experience.  

Yes, we had 2 schools (good schools that my DD likes) try to apply pressure (one more than the other).  But my DD and I made a pact that there would not be any committing before the summer after her Freshman year (this was prior to the new rule).  So we really weren’t feeling any pressure only the perception of it. 

I’m really not sure what it is you want someone to say.  There are dozens of Unicorns out there at the 2022 age group that haven’t committed and remember NOT ONE HAS SIGNED ON THE DOTTED LINE YET.   So my advice, don’t look backwards at what you think you missed.  Nothing you can do but give yourself brain damage.  You’ve obviously learned a lot from your experience....mainly what to avoid.  But your DD still loves the game, has a fantastic Coach and parents who support her.  She is poised for success, enjoy the journey. 

We have used the team at ScoutingZone to help in the process.  I highly recommend them.


----------



## MakeAPlay

@Ellejustus You have lots of people giving you mad love.  You should just chill and enjoy the ride.  Soon enough you will be where I am at which is close to the end.  My kid is not a kid anymore (she turned 21 at the end of May) and she is studying for the LSAT and deciding whether she wants to play in England, France, Spain, Germany or the NWSL.  The days of driving her to practice and tournaments are over.  No more making sure all of her stuff is in her soccer bag.  No more talking on the way to the game about who they are going to play and what I know about them.  Now they have professional scouting reports on opponents and have seen hours of game film on them.  Enjoy the journey because truth be told it really is about the journey and not the destination.  Remember no matter how good a player is it can all be taken away in an instant.  Not to mention unless they are that one or two players per birth year that are going to make the full WNT then this is a labor of love that better include a plan "B" that is really your plan "A."


Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> 90% of her closest friends are 2022’s.  I’ve spent a lot of time with these parents and have listened and watched intently.  Some are YNT players, some are DA and some ECNL.  When I say “my experience” I’m not just talking about my DD’s experience.
> 
> Yes, we had 2 schools (good schools that my DD likes) try to apply pressure (one more than the other).  But my DD and I made a pact that there would not be any committing before the summer after her Freshman year (this was prior to the new rule).  So we really weren’t feeling any pressure only the perception of it.
> 
> I’m really not sure what it is you want someone to say.  There are dozens of Unicorns out there at the 2022 age group that haven’t committed and remember NOT ONE HAS SIGNED ON THE DOTTED LINE YET.   So my advice, don’t look backwards at what you think you missed.  Nothing you can do but give yourself brain damage.  You’ve obviously learned a lot from your experience....mainly what to avoid.  But your DD still loves the game, has a fantastic Coach and parents who support her.  She is poised for success, enjoy the journey.
> 
> We have used the team at ScoutingZone to help in the process.  I highly recommend them.


Kicker, thanks.  I'm almost done.  So she was in 8th grade, right?  That's all I'm bitter about.  I will come back a year from now and see how things are going on the forum.  I had to leave for obvious reason....  Go GOATS for ever!!!!.


----------



## Dubs

Ellejustus said:


> The shit you're hearing regarding making quick decisions is the "chatter" I'm talking about.
> Its not chatter.....its true.  It already happened.  You think I would be on here to make this shit up?  Before, UCLA would hold on to their "tickets" into paradise until a little later like sophomore year.  All the top coaches new about the "new rule."  Your kid got to wait a little longer, right?  Still bad but better.  "Attention K Mart Shoppers, the NCAA has changed the rules for the girls.  However, they have two months to find 8 studs (really been watching from a far probably since 6th grade) so send your emails quickly and set up your phone call through your trusted coach who only has the best in mind for your dd.....hurry,
> hurry, hurry.......


Don't misinterpret what I'm saying.... I'm not saying the "chatter" is not true.  A club coach putting pressure on your kid to make a decision is attrocious.  I sure hope your DD is not playing for that coach.  I also completely understand the pressure she and her teammates may have gotten from college coaches as well since they wanted to commit girls before the rule change.  The 2022s that are 03s that play with my DD experienced that as well as the 04 team at our club. Some committed and some did not.   Eventhough these things are real, I point back to what I said about this being your DD and your family's choice on how to handle the situation.  If there is a lot of interest now, there will be down the road as well (provided she keeps ballin and keeps up her grades) when she's ready to make her mind up about what she wants to do.  Financially, it is impossible to know how much money any one school has or is willing to give to any recruit.   If you hear that all the money is gone, IMO that is also "chatter" unless you hear that directly from the coach themselves during your negotiation.  That is precisely why the journey is unique to each player.  What is most important?  Do you need a ride?  Do you need half?  This is all part of the process.  It will work out so long as you're letting your kid drive the process while giving her the guidance any good parent would provide along the way.  Don't let these other things distract you or your kid from whatever her goal might be.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> Kicker, thanks.  I'm almost done.  So she was in 8th grade, right?  That's all I'm bitter about.  I will come back a year from now and see how things are going on the forum.  I had to leave for obvious reason....  Go GOATS for ever!!!!.


Yes, she starts HS this Fall.  However her 2022 friends are all starting their Sophmore year. 

If College is a goal, I do recommend for her to start writing letters and organizing highlight reels to attach.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Yes, she starts HS this Fall.  However her 2022 friends are all starting their Sophmore year.
> 
> If College is a goal, I do recommend for her to start writing letters and organizing highlight reels to attach.


Kicker, she's going to play hard for two years and wait for the call.  Will it come or does she have to go through a middle man?  We shall see but I want the middle man out of this circus.  If they don't by her SR year and she wants to play in college, I will hire someone to put a video together and send it out.


----------



## Dummy

MakeAPlay said:


> @Ellejustus You have lots of people giving you mad love.  You should just chill and enjoy the ride.  Soon enough you will be where I am at which is close to the end.  My kid is not a kid anymore (she turned 21 at the end of May) and she is studying for the LSAT and deciding whether she wants to play in England, France, Spain, Germany or the NWSL.  The days of driving her to practice and tournaments are over.  No more making sure all of her stuff is in her soccer bag.  No more talking on the way to the game about who they are going to play and what I know about them.  Now they have professional scouting reports on opponents and have seen hours of game film on them.  Enjoy the journey because truth be told it really is about the journey and not the destination.  Remember no matter how good a player is it can all be taken away in an instant.  Not to mention unless they are that one or two players per birth year that are going to make the full WNT then this is a labor of love that better include a plan "B" that is really your plan "A."
> 
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.



Thank you for sharing your family’s experiences the way that you do.  Most of us are trying to figure out where are daughters fit into the whole scheme of things, and your openness is helpful in putting our experiences into context.

I know that everyone thinks that they want their daughter to be recruited, but I am not convinced that leaving fate to the college coaches is best for most players.  My daughter is a wonderful player could never be as athletic as yours no matter what she did, so she was not going to be recruited at UCLA’s and Stanford’s.  The coach at MIT told her that players at MIT recruit themselves to MIT, which means something very specific at MIT.  As we visited other schools, we realized that players there often recruit themselves too, which means different things at different places.  One of her very athletic friends won a National Championship with Florida State because she recruited herself onto the scout team (she played less than 45-minutes game time for the entire season and loved her experience).

You are right - having and helping a player formulate a realistic “plan A” is something that soccer parent owes his or her player.

Thank you again for your willingness to share your family’s experiences.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> @Ellejustus You have lots of people giving you mad love.  You should just chill and enjoy the ride.  Soon enough you will be where I am at which is close to the end.  My kid is not a kid anymore (she turned 21 at the end of May) and she is studying for the LSAT and deciding whether she wants to play in England, France, Spain, Germany or the NWSL.  The days of driving her to practice and tournaments are over.  No more making sure all of her stuff is in her soccer bag.  No more talking on the way to the game about who they are going to play and what I know about them.  Now they have professional scouting reports on opponents and have seen hours of game film on them.  Enjoy the journey because truth be told it really is about the journey and not the destination.  Remember no matter how good a player is it can all be taken away in an instant.  Not to mention unless they are that one or two players per birth year that are going to make the full WNT then this is a labor of love that better include a plan "B" that is really your plan "A."
> 
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


Thanks, that's a cool story for you guys.  I'm only shedding light on US Soccer making it a lot tougher for kids.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> Thanks, that's a cool story for you guys.  I'm only shedding light on US Soccer making it a lot tougher for kids.


I wish that I could trade places with you if only to enjoy the countless hours that you still get to spend with your daughter under your roof.  Summer always reminds me of how it used to be.  Don’t get caught up in the chaos around you.  Just enjoy your player’s labor of love and the fact that you get to share it with her.  Trust me you won’t care about the scores or the championships or even the destination as much as she will enjoy that you were taking it with her.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dummy said:


> Thank you for sharing your family’s experiences the way that you do.  Most of us are trying to figure out where are daughters fit into the whole scheme of things, and your openness is helpful in putting our experiences into context.
> 
> I know that everyone thinks that they want their daughter to be recruited, but I am not convinced that leaving fate to the college coaches is best for most players.  My daughter is a wonderful player could never be as athletic as yours no matter what she did, so she was not going to be recruited at UCLA’s and Stanford’s.  The coach at MIT told her that players at MIT recruit themselves to MIT, which means something very specific at MIT.  As we visited other schools, we realized that players there often recruit themselves too, which means different things at different places.  One of her very athletic friends won a National Championship with Florida State because she recruited herself onto the scout team (she played less than 45-minutes game time for the entire season and loved her experience).
> 
> You are right - having and helping a player formulate a realistic “plan A” is something that soccer parent owes his or her player.
> 
> Thank you again for your willingness to share your family’s experiences.


Thanks for the kind words and your player picking such an amazing school is a testament to her hard work on and off the field. 

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> Thanks, that's a cool story for you guys.  I'm only shedding light on US Soccer making it a lot tougher for kids.


 Oh yeah and US Soccer sucks.  I still have to cheer for the USA.  We aren’t perfect but we could be in Somalia or worse Palestine.


----------



## beachbum

Ellejustus said:


> Kicker, she's going to play hard for two years and wait for the call.  Will it come or does she have to go through a middle man?  We shall see but I want the middle man out of this circus.  If they don't by her SR year and she wants to play in college, I will hire someone to put a video together and send it out.


My two cents.  If your daughter even thinks that she may want to play in college, you are going to have to put some work in now.  It's as simple as consistently writing to schools that she may want to attend for soccer or not.  You can get all of the coach's emails by searching "athletic directory college(UCLA)", then send a introduction letter letting them know that you are interested in their school/program and just starting the process.  Then follow up with them on a fairly regular basis with updates on game times/ tournament/showcase game times etc.   If you wait unless she is that unicorn, generally they will not come knocking.  They want love just like you want your DD to be loved by them.


----------



## Ellejustus

beachbum said:


> My two cents.  If your daughter even thinks that she may want to play in college, you are going to have to put some work in now.  It's as simple as consistently writing to schools that she may want to attend for soccer or not.  You can get all of the coach's emails by searching "athletic directory college(UCLA)", then send a introduction letter letting them know that you are interested in their school/program and just starting the process.  Then follow up with them on a fairly regular basis with updates on game times/ tournament/showcase game times etc.   If you wait unless she is that unicorn, generally they will not come knocking.  They want love just like you want your DD to be loved by them.


This past season was a quick "Hi" at the Id Camp and then a few quick phone calls with your future coach that might not be there in 5 years.  If you found your dream school in 8th grade and you don't care who da coach will be, you sign up as fast as you can.  If you think 7th, 8th and 9th graders are ready for that pressure then u cray cray!!!.  This was done way to fast and it was wrong and I don't think this is over yet. If you are the Purple Unicorn I'm sure someone will get to you in 6th grade. I can't wait when June 15th 2020 comes.  I promise you this.  My dd will not email one coach.  She will visit some schools her Jr year and then she will email da coaches.  If coaches don't respond then we can talk about JC because she wants to play by da beach.  Understand??? I'm not looking at any D1, D2 or NAIA to "pop" around her practices right now.  I realized when I told a group of parents a year ago that you don't have to go to college to be successful that I was in the minority.  It's like I spoke ill towards the Pope or something.  Mike Rowe, we need help here bro.  It's a two way date.  Dating is good.  Divorce is not.  Don't say "I do" 4 years before the commitment starts.  2 or 1 year might be a little better.  Slow down everyone.  Whats the rush????


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## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> This past season was a quick "Hi" at the Id Camp and then a few quick phone calls with your future coach that might not be there in 5 years.  If you found your dream school in 8th grade and you don't care who da coach will be, you sign up as fast as you can.  If you think 7th, 8th and 9th graders are ready for that pressure then u cray cray!!!.  This was done way to fast and it was wrong and I don't think this is over yet. If you are the Purple Unicorn I'm sure someone will get to you in 6th grade. I can't wait when June 15th 2020 comes.  I promise you this.  My dd will not email one coach.  She will visit some schools her Jr year and then she will email da coaches.  If coaches don't respond then we can talk about JC because she wants to play by da beach.  Understand??? I'm not looking at any D1, D2 or NAIA to "pop" around her practices right now.  I realized when I told a group of parents a year ago that you don't have to go to college to be successful that I was in the minority.  It's like I spoke ill towards the Pope or something.  Mike Rowe, we need help here bro.  It's a two way date.  Dating is good.  Divorce is not.  Don't say "I do" 4 years before the commitment starts.  2 or 1 year might be a little better.  Slow down everyone.  Whats the rush????


Sometimes you just know that it is right.  When I met my spouse I was at a party and my spouse was so amazing and special that I ditched my friend that I came to the party with and let him know that I was going home with her and her friends. 

Sometimes it is just right!

Good luck to you and your player.


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## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> Sometimes you just know that it is right.  When I met my spouse I was at a party and my spouse was so amazing and special that I ditched my friend that I came to the party with and let him know that I was going home with her and her friends.
> 
> Sometimes it is just right!
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


Sometimes MAP.  But when the divorce rate is 80% then we have a problem.  You  r one smart dude too.  You pick right a lot.  Glad for ya.  I met my wife and it was love at first site.  However, I did take my time before I got on my knees.  Dating is good   Speed dating is coming June 15th, 2020.


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## SD_Soccer

Ellejustus said:


> This past season was a quick "Hi" at the Id Camp and then a few quick phone calls with your future coach that might not be there in 5 years.  If you found your dream school in 8th grade and you don't care who da coach will be, you sign up as fast as you can.  If you think 7th, 8th and 9th graders are ready for that pressure then u cray cray!!!.  This was done way to fast and it was wrong and I don't think this is over yet. If you are the Purple Unicorn I'm sure someone will get to you in 6th grade. I can't wait when June 15th 2020 comes.  I promise you this.  My dd will not email one coach.  She will visit some schools her Jr year and then she will email da coaches.  If coaches don't respond then we can talk about JC because she wants to play by da beach.  Understand??? I'm not looking at any D1, D2 or NAIA to "pop" around her practices right now.  I realized when I told a group of parents a year ago that you don't have to go to college to be successful that I was in the minority.  It's like I spoke ill towards the Pope or something.  Mike Rowe, we need help here bro.  It's a two way date.  Dating is good.  Divorce is not.  Don't say "I do" 4 years before the commitment starts.  2 or 1 year might be a little better.  Slow down everyone.  Whats the rush????


So if she knows she wants to play by the beach (and if that is more important than how good the team is), why not reach out to the coaches of the schools that meet that criteria (e.g., Santa Barbara)?  You are getting a lot of very good advice from a lot of people who have been through the process.  What harm is there in reaching out to the limited number of universities that meet the criteria (I assume you mean California university near the beach)?  It is not that long a list to send out a few emails and show she is interested in them.  Money available will likely diminish if you wait too long.  Does not mean she has to commit earlier than you prefer-- if they really want her, they will wait and not take the offer back.  But if you don't have the offer, it is less likely money will be there to get the offer you may get now (or soon) when you feel she is ready to make a decision on where to attend.  And if you get an offer, you can use that as leverage to try to get more money from other schools.  Very few players (CM at Stanford) can wait for schools to find them and expect to get as much money as they may like.  For the rest, it takes a bit of effort to maximize the outcome (right school, most money).


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## Ellejustus

SD_Soccer said:


> So if she knows she wants to play by the beach (and if that is more important than how good the team is), why not reach out to the coaches of the schools that meet that criteria (e.g., Santa Barbara)?  You are getting a lot of very good advice from a lot of people who have been through the process.  What harm is there in reaching out to the limited number of universities that meet the criteria (I assume you mean California university near the beach)?  It is not that long a list to send out a few emails and show she is interested in them.  Money available will likely diminish if you wait too long.  Does not mean she has to commit earlier than you prefer-- if they really want her, they will wait and not take the offer back.  But if you don't have the offer, it is less likely money will be there to get the offer you may get now (or soon) when you feel she is ready to make a decision on where to attend.  And if you get an offer, you can use that as leverage to try to get more money from other schools.  Very few players (CM at Stanford) can wait for schools to find them and expect to get as much money as they may like.  For the rest, it takes a bit of effort to maximize the outcome (right school, most money).


Nevermind......


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## Ellejustus

SD_Soccer said:


> So if she knows she wants to play by the beach (and if that is more important than how good the team is), why not reach out to the coaches of the schools that meet that criteria (e.g., Santa Barbara)?  You are getting a lot of very good advice from a lot of people who have been through the process.  What harm is there in reaching out to the limited number of universities that meet the criteria (I assume you mean California university near the beach)?  It is not that long a list to send out a few emails and show she is interested in them.  Money available will likely diminish if you wait too long.  Does not mean she has to commit earlier than you prefer-- if they really want her, they will wait and not take the offer back.  But if you don't have the offer, it is less likely money will be there to get the offer you may get now (or soon) when you feel she is ready to make a decision on where to attend.  And if you get an offer, you can use that as leverage to try to get more money from other schools.  Very few players (CM at Stanford) can wait for schools to find them and expect to get as much money as they may like.  For the rest, it takes a bit of effort to maximize the outcome (right school, most money).


We want big football power by beach only for right now. 2 years to decide, no? Is that possible?  I'm willing to pay for books, 99% tuition and stay away from the practices.  Just need some help to get in the door.  Soccer does that, no?  Trying hard to make da list too but getting harder and harder these days.  Need to be on da list   Help Help, how do non da players make da list......anyone, please, anyone help.  $$$$ are all gone.  Please, I'm losing my marbles, please, quick quick


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## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> Sometimes MAP.  But when the divorce rate is 80% then we have a problem.  You  r one smart dude too.  You pick right a lot.  Glad for ya.  I met my wife and it was love at first site.  However, I did take my time before I got on my knees.  Dating is good   Speed dating is coming June 15th, 2020.


The divorce rate isn't nearly that high for D1.  Most kids are pretty happy with their decision especially when it is done pragmatically.  Even my kid, who has two parents that are athletic alums of her current school, had to go through the process and she almost chose Stanford!  She took a trip to all three of her choices and settled on her current one after some deliberation.  Her current school was the first that she contacted but the last to make an offer.  I am on my second marriage so I make my fair share of mistakes.  One of my player's old teammates was a late add to the recruiting class.  She got noticed late spring of her junior year of high school when she was playing against a player that was already committed to the team.  She got an offer and committed.  Initially she wasn't getting much money (I know because she told my player) but after her second year as a starter (she started most of the games her freshman year) she earned a significant bump in money and was even a top NWSL draft pick.  Just pick the school first, not the coach nor the soccer program and everything else will work itself out.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## MakeAPlay

SD_Soccer said:


> So if she knows she wants to play by the beach (and if that is more important than how good the team is), why not reach out to the coaches of the schools that meet that criteria (e.g., Santa Barbara)?  You are getting a lot of very good advice from a lot of people who have been through the process.  What harm is there in reaching out to the limited number of universities that meet the criteria (I assume you mean California university near the beach)?  It is not that long a list to send out a few emails and show she is interested in them.  Money available will likely diminish if you wait too long.  Does not mean she has to commit earlier than you prefer-- if they really want her, they will wait and not take the offer back.  But if you don't have the offer, it is less likely money will be there to get the offer you may get now (or soon) when you feel she is ready to make a decision on where to attend.  And if you get an offer, you can use that as leverage to try to get more money from other schools.  Very few players (CM at Stanford) can wait for schools to find them and expect to get as much money as they may like.  For the rest, it takes a bit of effort to maximize the outcome (right school, most money).



Catarina didn't wait.  She had her deal with Stanford locked up but was waiting until she got her acceptance letter to announce it.  As soon as her old coach Chris Lemay left Cal their 2017 recruiting class fell apart.  She only considered two other schools.  Even Mallory Pugh committed as a sophomore.


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## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> Catarina didn't wait.  She had her deal with Stanford locked up but was waiting until she got her acceptance letter to announce it.  As soon as her old coach Chris Lemay left Cal their 2017 recruiting class fell apart.  She only considered two other schools.  Even Mallory Pugh committed as a sophomore.


The only one I heard of is MP.  I'm not looking for college MAP right now and neither is my kid.  She wants to play, play, play, play soccer, soccer, soccer, soccer without interruptions and yes, play HS Soccer too.  You think one of the big schools might have a few bucks when my dd is a JR/SR?  How about just a spot on the roster and I''ll pay for it?  I'm seriously asking because I have no clue.


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## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> The only one I heard of is MP.  I'm not looking for college MAP right now and neither is my kid.  She wants to play, play, play, play soccer, soccer, soccer, soccer without interruptions and yes, play HS Soccer too.  You think one of the big schools might have a few bucks when my dd is a JR/SR?  How about just a spot on the roster and I''ll pay for it?  I'm seriously asking because I have no clue.


If of course she's still balling hard and doing well with grades and soccer


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## dk_b

Ellejustus said:


> If of course she's still balling hard and doing well with grades and soccer


Unless colleges are going to make a clear decision to circumvent the new rules, there will be $$$ available for strong players.  The pace of recruitment may change - an early land rush - but I am of the firm belief that this will be better for players/parents/schools/coaches alike.  I said upthread that I am confident that my kid's choice is the right one for her but I would have been happy if the new rules were in place when she went through the process.  

The player who does not benefit?  The player who might have looked amazing at 14yo, would have received an early offer only to have peaked at 14 or 15 or 16 but did not get the offer pulled and still was able to sign an LOI.  That school may have "overpaid" for that 14yo but she gets a subsidized education.  There will be fewer players like that.


----------



## Ellejustus

dk_b said:


> Unless colleges are going to make a clear decision to circumvent the new rules, there will be $$$ available for strong players.  The pace of recruitment may change - an early land rush - but I am of the firm belief that this will be better for players/parents/schools/coaches alike.  I said upthread that I am confident that my kid's choice is the right one for her but I would have been happy if the new rules were in place when she went through the process.
> 
> The player who does not benefit?  The player who might have looked amazing at 14yo, would have received an early offer only to have peaked at 14 or 15 or 16 but did not get the offer pulled and still was able to sign an LOI.  That school may have "overpaid" for that 14yo but she gets a subsidized education.  There will be fewer players like that.


Dude, thank you, thank you thank and thank you.  That's what I was looking for.  My dd is confident she will get better even if she doesn't PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE 4 days a week with hopes of YNT or pro contract.  As long as she is playing, playing, playing and  playing she will get better, better, better and better.  She grow 6 inches since 7th grade. Still has speed and quickness but others have caught up to her.  She used to be the fastest on her U9 team......bummer.........but she didn't lose her speed either.  I've seen parents spend $$$$$$ to get faster kid but still slow.  Why not work?  Physics?  Speed coach promised faster but not faster.........


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## MWN

I hate to dredge this up, but in 2017 the NCAA Research department did a study of early recruiting (http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIRes_DISAACEarlyRecruitingSurvey_(Oct2017)_FINAL_20171013.pdf)

Here are the results regarding verbal offers for women's sports.  Only 3% of athletes at the 9th grade age or younger were given verbal commitment's for a scholarship.  29% where in 10th grade, 55% were in 11th grade and 9% were 12 graders.

This is not a problem that some may perceive it is.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> The divorce rate isn't nearly that high for D1.  Most kids are pretty happy with their decision especially when it is done pragmatically.  Even my kid, who has two parents that are athletic alums of her current school, had to go through the process and she almost chose Stanford!  She took a trip to all three of her choices and settled on her current one after some deliberation.  Her current school was the first that she contacted but the last to make an offer.  I am on my second marriage so I make my fair share of mistakes.  One of my player's old teammates was a late add to the recruiting class.  She got noticed late spring of her junior year of high school when she was playing against a player that was already committed to the team.  She got an offer and committed.  Initially she wasn't getting much money (I know because she told my player) but after her second year as a starter (she started most of the games her freshman year) she earned a significant bump in money and was even a top NWSL draft pick.  Just pick the school first, not the coach nor the soccer program and everything else will work itself out.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


I think the % rate is better for the Unicorn Players at Unicorn U MAP.  So if we take the top studs out, then it might look like 85% divorce rate.  Those kids tend to know what they want by 8th grade and Unicorn U are masters at finding 7th grade talent and who will be great academic achievers as well.  The other slow learners need more time to process all this shit.  It's confusing for us.  How many D1 schools now?  I'm telling you folks in SoCal are getting sold "scholarship" and thinking all paid in full.  This is right around 7th grade.  College night for 7th graders.  Once they realize the truth in 9th grade, the pressure comes.  UCSB, sign sign sign.  Again, I love the Gauchos.  No disrespect to them at all but it's not big time soccer and NO football.  Gotta have football if you want to have fun in college.  Take it or leave it playa!!!!  It's liking the one girl, but being told no and told to take this one.  Trust me, she's been looking for someone like you.............. desperately.......oh joy, I can feel the love


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## Ellejustus

MWN said:


> I hate to dredge this up, but in 2017 the NCAA Research department did a study of early recruiting (http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIRes_DISAACEarlyRecruitingSurvey_(Oct2017)_FINAL_20171013.pdf)
> 
> Here are the results regarding verbal offers for women's sports.  Only 3% of athletes at the 9th grade age or younger were given verbal commitment's for a scholarship.  29% where in 10th grade, 55% were in 11th grade and 9% were 12 graders.
> 
> This is not a problem that some may perceive it is.


oh, ok.  I'm so sorry for getting all upset here folks.  It must have a had a dream.  Bring 2019 when you it.  I'm curious to see if it went up a few points this year.  Thanks for the Stats too.


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## dk_b

I have 4 kids and have been a parent for a while - like a lot of people on this board.  My (unsolicited) advice for anyone whose kid is younger than 16:  make sure he/she is having fun in whatever endeavor (here, soccer) in which he/she participates.  If they are grinding and it is not fun, if they are scoring goal after goal and it is not fun, if they are getting 500 juggles and juggle-walking there and back but it is not fun, if they are not having fun . . . you will be looking at a serious case of "I don't want to do this anymore" at some point (and maybe with a "this is MY life, not yours!" or "I hate soccer!" or "I just want to be a kid, not a professional!").  That can happen with a sport, an instrument, chess, family game night, cooking dinner with the siblings, whatever.  The difference with sport - compared to the others - it is much, much harder to pick it up later (a year, 5 years, 20 years) and be at the same level.  As I say to friends w/kids interested in playing D1 sports, "they better love it because, in many ways, it is more than a job."

And no matter how much you know and love your kid, and how much he/she loves you back, MANY kids change during those teen years. And if they don't love the sport, if they are not playing it for themselves, then they WILL drop out at some point and all the intense plans, ID camps before HS, studying Last Planet Rankings (anyone remember those?), looking at your next opponent who beat X, lost to Y, put 8 on Z, will be meaningless (and, really, they are meaningless as you go through them but, as is common, we don't really see it when we are in it (or maybe not meaningLESS but the are far less meaningFUL than we think at the time)).

I hope all of us think back on these discussions in 10 years and then look at our adult children with pride at the women and men that they have become.  I know that @MakeAPlay sees it now - and that's a great example for all of us.


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## timmyh

Life doesn't work the way you want it to, EJ.  Sometimes, oftentimes actually, you're gonna be better off playing by the rules of whatever system you find yourself in.  Whether that's school or work or society or even youth/college soccer. 

Choosing to throw your hands up and not participate (I will never have my daughter write a college) or trying and roll the boulder uphill and fight the system is a recipe for not ending up in a happy place.  

You want your girl to receive an offer to play soccer at UCLA.  If accomplishing that is the sole bar for your (or your daughter's) ability to find happiness, that's a very, very narrow needle to thread.  Thousands of people want that.  Dozens will succeed.  

You're upset your daughter did not already receive offers from the "big football school near the beach," yet you chose to not allow your daughter to participate in the "societal norms" for how that normally happens because you find the process silly and distasteful.  Fair enough. Many agree with you.  But that's your choice and it comes with consequences.

Your daughter is not sure that she wants to go to college.  Fair enough.  But if she's really upset that she didn't get a full ride to her dream school when others did, that seems contradictory.

You want your daughter to play on the YNT, yet are fighting against maximizing the odds of that happening by actively avoiding any DA teams (including, if I understand correctly, the team she wants to play on that includes a lot of her friends).  Fair enough.  But that's also a choice and it comes with consequences.   

It seems like you're more interested in abiding by some "code of honor" you've created for how you believe this process should ideally work, even if it's at the expense of what might be in your daughter's best interest. 

You seem to want very specific, high value reward for your daughter, yet appear to me to be sabotaging any possibility of it actually happening.  "Doing this your way" is preventing her from participating in actions that would likely increase the odds of her accomplishing her goals (your goals?).  Perhaps that's on purpose so that there's eventually an excuse for why it didn't happen (when it was truthfully unlikely to ever happen).  

But if not, I think you should either re-evaluate your goals or re-evaluate your plan for how to maximize your chances for reaching those goals.  Otherwise, if happiness equals reality divided by expectations, I fear you may struggle to find the joy that so, so, so many others have found in this process.


----------



## MWN

Ellejustus said:


> oh, ok.  I'm so sorry for getting all upset here folks.  It must have a had a dream.  Bring 2019 when you it.  I'm curious to see if it went up a few points this year.  Thanks for the Stats too.


As I mentioned earlier, the practice is now prohibited.  Thus, it will have gone down to nearly 0% with the new NCAA rules.  See: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/di-council-adopts-rules-curb-early-recruiting

So we are clear, as to soccer players (boys and girls), only those in 11th grade this Fall (2003/02) are eligible to receive verbal offers.  Some coaches may have seen the writing on the wall and jumped in with offers before the rule was adopted.


----------



## dk_b

MWN said:


> I hate to dredge this up, but in 2017 the NCAA Research department did a study of early recruiting (http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIRes_DISAACEarlyRecruitingSurvey_(Oct2017)_FINAL_20171013.pdf)
> 
> Here are the results regarding verbal offers for women's sports.  Only 3% of athletes at the 9th grade age or younger were given verbal commitment's for a scholarship.  29% where in 10th grade, 55% were in 11th grade and 9% were 12 graders.
> 
> This is not a problem that some may perceive it is.


Thanks for posting that.  While 1/3 of the soccer class will need to be adjusted to the later years, I do think the impact on all players is significant (1/3 is not a small number), just as ECNL and GDA impact the players on NPL teams and at clubs none of us has heard of.  I have mentioned that I have kids at a small club - their top teams are NPL and they occasionally have a solid age cohort that cause challenges to elite teams.  Or caused back in the days that ECNL and GDA did not exist.  Now it is tough - there is way more player movement from those small clubs (even non-elite players and even with a longer recruiting pathway).  I do think that the new rules will cause a bottleneck at first but, after a class or two, it will sort itself out.  (and, given the just-prior rule changes, how did any player commit early w/o actually seeing the inside of the facilities and seeing a coach and players interact from up close?  The unofficial visits were absolutely KEY in my daughter making her decision (and my spouse and me feeling comfortable about it))


----------



## SD_Soccer

MWN said:


> I hate to dredge this up, but in 2017 the NCAA Research department did a study of early recruiting (http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIRes_DISAACEarlyRecruitingSurvey_(Oct2017)_FINAL_20171013.pdf)
> 
> Here are the results regarding verbal offers for women's sports.  Only 3% of athletes at the 9th grade age or younger were given verbal commitment's for a scholarship.  29% where in 10th grade, 55% were in 11th grade and 9% were 12 graders.
> 
> This is not a problem that some may perceive it is.


But the recruiting for most of the players started well in advance of when the player verbally agreed to go to the school.  There is no data to show it, but many of those who verbally agreed as Juniors were being scouted much, much earlier.  And it also does not show who got the most money, or the tier of team (Top 10 programs, top 50 programs to low end D1 schools-- typically it starts with the top schools and works its way down) based on the year they comitted.  MAP has shared the UCLA recruiting somewhere along the way.  They have 2022 grads pretty well wrapped up, barring some de-commits.  And I suspect they don't have a lot of money left, unless they have a particular unicorn they are waiting to commit.  

If the goal is more broad in terms of schools that are acceptable and money is not a problem, waiting is fine.  But there is a risk to the strategy.  I would advise starting the process early and commit when ready.


----------



## Dubs

SD_Soccer said:


> But the recruiting for most of the players started well in advance of when the player verbally agreed to go to the school.  There is no data to show it, but many of those who verbally agreed as Juniors were being scouted much, much earlier.  And it also does not show who got the most money, or the tier of team (Top 10 programs, top 50 programs to low end D1 schools-- typically it starts with the top schools and works its way down) based on the year they comitted.  MAP has shared the UCLA recruiting somewhere along the way.  They have 2022 grads pretty well wrapped up, barring some de-commits.  And I suspect they don't have a lot of money left, unless they have a particular unicorn they are waiting to commit.
> 
> If the goal is more broad in terms of schools that are acceptable and money is not a problem, waiting is fine.  But there is a risk to the strategy.  I would advise starting the process early and commit when ready.


This is true.  Even though the committment was made either as a Freshman or Sophomore year, the recruiting started well before.


----------



## MWN

SD_Soccer said:


> But the recruiting for most of the players started well in advance of when the player verbally agreed to go to the school.  There is no data to show it, but many of those who verbally agreed as Juniors were being scouted much, much earlier.  And it also does not show who got the most money, or the tier of team (Top 10 programs, top 50 programs to low end D1 schools-- typically it starts with the top schools and works its way down) based on the year they comitted.  MAP has shared the UCLA recruiting somewhere along the way.  They have 2022 grads pretty well wrapped up, barring some de-commits.  And I suspect they don't have a lot of money left, unless they have a particular unicorn they are waiting to commit.
> 
> If the goal is more broad in terms of schools that are acceptable and money is not a problem, waiting is fine.  But there is a risk to the strategy.  I would advise starting the process early and commit when ready.


Read the report (I provided a link), the recruitment process data was in the report (page 5) - 37% of girls soccer players started the recruitment process before 10th grade.  63% after 10th grade.

You all also need to take a step back.  A verbal offer simply mean your player is on the coaches radar and PROVIDED your player meets the unstated conditions of that Coach, they will likely receive a written Letter of Intent.  What are the unstated (but sometimes stated) conditions:

1) Grades and SAT that qualifies them for the college.  Many lose their opportunities because they can't be enrolled academically.
2) The player continues to perform at the highest levels.  Drop down or puberty does a number and the verbal commitment is lost.
3) The coach is still at the school when it comes time for the Letter of Intent.  Coaches frequently move or are fired.
4) The player hasn't suffered any injuries that might prevent playing at the college level.
5) The player continues to represent the model citizen the Coach and School are looking for.  Stupid social media activity by the player has lost many a verbal commitment.

A verbal commitment is not binding.  Don't put too much weight into these.

Moreover, the 2022 class is the 2004 age group (15 year old girls) and only a few schools are bold enough to fill up their 2022 class completely at this level and all know that a few of the prospects will drop out before National Letter of Intent day.


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## Ellejustus

dk_b said:


> I have 4 kids and have been a parent for a while - like a lot of people on this board.  My (unsolicited) advice for anyone whose kid is younger than 16:  make sure he/she is having fun in whatever endeavor (here, soccer) in which he/she participates.  If they are grinding and it is not fun, if they are scoring goal after goal and it is not fun, if they are getting 500 juggles and juggle-walking there and back but it is not fun, if they are not having fun . . . you will be looking at a serious case of "I don't want to do this anymore" at some point (and maybe with a "this is MY life, not yours!" or "I hate soccer!" or "I just want to be a kid, not a professional!").  That can happen with a sport, an instrument, chess, family game night, cooking dinner with the siblings, whatever.  The difference with sport - compared to the others - it is much, much harder to pick it up later (a year, 5 years, 20 years) and be at the same level.  As I say to friends w/kids interested in playing D1 sports, "they better love it because, in many ways, it is more than a job."
> 
> And no matter how much you know and love your kid, and how much he/she loves you back, MANY kids change during those teen years. And if they don't love the sport, if they are not playing it for themselves, then they WILL drop out at some point and all the intense plans, ID camps before HS, studying Last Planet Rankings (anyone remember those?), looking at your next opponent who beat X, lost to Y, put 8 on Z, will be meaningless (and, really, they are meaningless as you go through them but, as is common, we don't really see it when we are in it (or maybe not meaningLESS but the are far less meaningFUL than we think at the time)).
> 
> I hope all of us think back on these discussions in 10 years and then look at our adult children with pride at the women and men that they have become.  I know that @MakeAPlay sees it now - and that's a great example for all of us.


Thank you so much.  DAUGHTERS should be left alone until after Soph year of HS when it comes to college recruiting in soccer.  Not all playa's has had the model DOCs and Coach with *USSF** A Lic (how to treat and speak to little 12 and 13 year olds girls).*  It's PRESSURE PRESSURE, PRESSURE.  Why the PRESSURE to SIGN SIGN SIGN!!!!  Something's not right and it's happening in front of us all.  The whole thing smells like a rat to me.  Why give power to a *dope head who only cares about his next move or bonus?  *for da record, not all coaches are dope heads........  I should have listen to the guy who owned soccer store 10 years ago.  He told me, "don't play for a club, look for coach and a team to have fun with."  BTW, DD new coach is incredible and we took our time and did a little research this time around.  DD very happy   We will look for good coach in college too.  Coaches can be assholes too you know because they feel so much PRESSURE PRESSURE to SIGN SIGN SIGN.  WHY WHY WHY??????  Way to much influence folks.  The "middle man" has long held tremendous power in this arena.  You can't see that folks? DA BIG CLUB has power I will not allow even if it's FREE FREE FREE and no YNT YNT YNT  or PRO PRO PRO.  Only dumb college game with dumb rules like running clock and sub at 1/2, just like stupid HS Soccer.  *Today I have officially announced that my daughter will not go through a club coach (Sorry coach) to talk to a D1 coach or any college coach for that matter when the time comes for that stuff next year.*  He's welcome to relay a little message if college coach likes what he/shes so far and is welcomed to "pop" around and check out a practice and even her warm ups before the games.  My dd will find a creative way to let the coach or coaches know that she's one hell of playa and student and has interest in playing big time soccer at big time school with football too.  Maybe not Unicorn U but still big time for her   This is so easy for us.  Were looking for a match made in heaven.  A commitment that is both respected and honored.  Lastly, my DD only want to play by da beach.  Lot's of schools by the beach.  Q. Why travel to New Jersey to pay big team fees and travel so schools far, far away can watch?  My kid only wants to go to school by da beach......


----------



## Ellejustus

timmyh said:


> Life doesn't work the way you want it to, EJ.  Sometimes, oftentimes actually, you're gonna be better off playing by the rules of whatever system you find yourself in.  Whether that's school or work or society or even youth/college soccer.
> 
> Choosing to throw your hands up and not participate (I will never have my daughter write a college) or trying and roll the boulder uphill and fight the system is a recipe for not ending up in a happy place.
> 
> You want your girl to receive an offer to play soccer at UCLA.  If accomplishing that is the sole bar for your (or your daughter's) ability to find happiness, that's a very, very narrow needle to thread.  Thousands of people want that.  Dozens will succeed.
> 
> You're upset your daughter did not already receive offers from the "big football school near the beach," yet you chose to not allow your daughter to participate in the "societal norms" for how that normally happens because you find the process silly and distasteful.  Fair enough. Many agree with you.  But that's your choice and it comes with consequences.
> 
> Your daughter is not sure that she wants to go to college.  Fair enough.  But if she's really upset that she didn't get a full ride to her dream school when others did, that seems contradictory.
> 
> You want your daughter to play on the YNT, yet are fighting against maximizing the odds of that happening by actively avoiding any DA teams (including, if I understand correctly, the team she wants to play on that includes a lot of her friends).  Fair enough.  But that's also a choice and it comes with consequences.
> 
> It seems like you're more interested in abiding by some "code of honor" you've created for how you believe this process should ideally work, even if it's at the expense of what might be in your daughter's best interest.
> 
> You seem to want very specific, high value reward for your daughter, yet appear to me to be sabotaging any possibility of it actually happening.  "Doing this your way" is preventing her from participating in actions that would likely increase the odds of her accomplishing her goals (your goals?).  Perhaps that's on purpose so that there's eventually an excuse for why it didn't happen (when it was truthfully unlikely to ever happen).
> 
> But if not, I think you should either re-evaluate your goals or re-evaluate your plan for how to maximize your chances for reaching those goals.  Otherwise, if happiness equals reality divided by expectations, I fear you may struggle to find the joy that so, so, so many others have found in this process.


Thank you so much for response.  No true but TY anyways


----------



## outside!

Ellejustus said:


> Thank you so much.  ... by da beach......


Man are you still whining? Get over it. Have your DD email the coaches of the schools she is interested in on the day they are allowed to communicate. Have her include her schedule and ask them to come see her play. Sign your DD up for a winter ID camp her junior year at the schools she is interested in. See what happens. If she has the chops an offer will be made. If not, pick some other schools an try again. It will work out one way or another. I wish your DD good luck in the process, on the field and in dealing with a crazy dad.


----------



## Ellejustus

MWN said:


> Read the report (I provided a link), the recruitment process data was in the report (page 5) - 37% of girls soccer players started the recruitment process before 10th grade.  63% after 10th grade.
> 
> You all also need to take a step back.  A verbal offer simply mean your player is on the coaches radar and PROVIDED your player meets the unstated conditions of that Coach, they will likely receive a written Letter of Intent.  What are the unstated (but sometimes stated) conditions:
> 
> 1) Grades and SAT that qualifies them for the college.  Many lose their opportunities because they can't be enrolled academically.
> 2) The player continues to perform at the highest levels.  Drop down or puberty does a number and the verbal commitment is lost.
> 3) The coach is still at the school when it comes time for the Letter of Intent.  Coaches frequently move or are fired.
> 4) The player hasn't suffered any injuries that might prevent playing at the college level.
> 5) The player continues to represent the model citizen the Coach and School are looking for.  Stupid social media activity by the player has lost many a verbal commitment.
> 
> A verbal commitment is not binding.  Don't put too much weight into these.
> 
> Moreover, the 2022 class is the 2004 age group (15 year old girls) and only a few schools are bold enough to fill up their 2022 class completely at this level and all know that a few of the prospects will drop out before National Letter of Intent day.


MAP says UCLA and big Unicorn U spent all $$$ for 2022 for top playas except maybe transfer from NC once in a blue moon because YNT player is homesick.  MAP????  So most verbals don't actually hold up? Can we get some data on that please?  So my playa was one of top playa's (Not DA Best but good) at 13 and 14.  However, not top student going into the tough years of 7th and 8th grade.  At that time she was trying to win spot on U14 list because she thought it would be cool to play for da USA!!!.  No pick for YNT.  Now new soccer algorithm for dd that goes something like this.  Soccer player score (how well you play da game) + Student Score (Grades)= Playa/student score avg..  My dd scores 9 out of 10 for soccer playa (That's my opinion, maybe higher) and was a 5 at best two years ago for Student Score.  Total power avg is 7 .  Potential college recruits she's competing with now have higher power scores. One girl has 7 for soccer and 10 for grades =8.5.  Plus better grades more $$$.  Not many get 100% athletic deal right MAP???  Need to be better all around student/athelete.  Instead of telling my dd to juggle 500 times to make YNT, I told her to get her student score up and maybe she can play at big time school with football and beach.  Just need time on the student part   PRESSURE PRESSURE PRESSURE.......WHY WHY WHY?


----------



## Ellejustus

outside! said:


> Man are you still whining? Get over it. Have your DD email the coaches of the schools she is interested in on the day they are allowed to communicate. Have her include her schedule and ask them to come see her play. Sign your DD up for a winter ID camp her junior year at the schools she is interested in. See what happens. If she has the chops an offer will be made. If not, pick some other schools an try again. It will work out one way or another. I wish your DD good luck in the process, on the field and in dealing with a crazy dad.


Thank you Outside brah.  She just learned how to surf and is getting real good.  Has to play by da beach.  Needs good grades.  That takes time too.  Balance is all I'm asking for.  Thanks for letting me whine.  My biggest rant is NO HS SOCCER FOR DA PLAYAS.  Thoughts Outside?  No HS?


----------



## Ellejustus

MWN said:


> As I mentioned earlier, the practice is now prohibited.  Thus, it will have gone down to nearly 0% with the new NCAA rules.  See: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/di-council-adopts-rules-curb-early-recruiting
> 
> So we are clear, as to soccer players (boys and girls), only those in 11th grade this Fall (2003/02) are eligible to receive verbal offers.  *Some coaches may have seen the writing on the wall and jumped in with offers before the rule was adopted*.


Ok, we now get it.  Some coaches.  No bueno and I'm glad NCAA stepped in.  Now they need to work on DA Middle Man and were all set.  Too much power.


----------



## Messi>CR7

Ellejustus said:


> Thank you Outside brah.  She just learned how to surf and is getting real good.  Has to play by da beach.  Needs good grades.  That takes time too.  Balance is all I'm asking for.  Thanks for letting me whine.  My biggest rant is NO HS SOCCER FOR DA PLAYAS.  Thoughts Outside?  No HS?


Dude, please go AWAY AWAY AWAY AWAY AWAY. 

I can't believe so many have so patiently provided very useful information to you.  I have learned quite a few things for myself, so thanks to you................I guess.


----------



## ToonArmy

Do they even get to go to football games when it's in the same season? Especially UCLA home games other side of LA county to Pasadena from Westwood?


----------



## myself

This thread...


----------



## Ellejustus

Why does everyone think its the Middle Man who has all the connections.  Pay Pay Pay or go to DA for FREE FREE FREE.  No MIDDLE MAN!!!!  Just coach who cares about playa being happy and healthy. that'a a good coach.  Bad coach:  Hey look, lots of great gigs out there.  Where you want to play playa?
8th grader:  Ah ah ah UCLA..........
Bad Coach: That's what all playa's say. make YNT and then play hard when AC comes
Bad Coach:  Where is?
Playa:  Beach school
Bad Coach:  I'll make a call right now and you get a full ride to such and such school
Playa:  Really
Bad Coach:  They know me and It's all done deal.
Playa:  Wow, that sounds cool but its cold in the winter
Bad Coach:  Free school
Dad:  What about grade requirements
Bad Coach:  Get good grades too
Bad Coach:  Email coach and I''ll hook you up with da call


Messi>CR7 said:


> Dude, please go AWAY AWAY AWAY AWAY AWAY.
> 
> I can't believe so many have so patiently provided very useful information to you.  I have learned quite a few things for myself, so thanks to you................I guess.


PBS PBS PBS 
Dont read anymore ****** Toxic Toxic except we all getting some good info. Ty for all advice. Much better than bad DOC AT BIG CLUB. I'm almost done. NO HS Soccer except for Private Kids.  Why?  Please US SOCCER FEDERATION from USA govt allow my dd to do play soccer at public HS funded by USA but Federation says NO HS Soccer. Why why why? Please, need to make list that DOC said she had a chance. DD dont care now just want to play against all the top DA talent going to Unicorn U with all YNT playa even if sit in bench for 5 years. Play play play only.


----------



## MakeAPlay

dk_b said:


> Unless colleges are going to make a clear decision to circumvent the new rules, there will be $$$ available for strong players.  The pace of recruitment may change - an early land rush - but I am of the firm belief that this will be better for players/parents/schools/coaches alike.  I said upthread that I am confident that my kid's choice is the right one for her but I would have been happy if the new rules were in place when she went through the process.
> 
> The player who does not benefit?  The player who might have looked amazing at 14yo, would have received an early offer only to have peaked at 14 or 15 or 16 but did not get the offer pulled and still was able to sign an LOI.  That school may have "overpaid" for that 14yo but she gets a subsidized education.  There will be fewer players like that.


His kid is 2022 so unless Florida State or $C is her desired destination, the prettiest girls at the dance have already filled up their dance card for that year.   However, offering a roster spot doesn’t cost the school a thing.  They still want you to have the skills to be able to keep up in the drills.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> I think the % rate is better for the Unicorn Players at Unicorn U MAP.  So if we take the top studs out, then it might look like 85% divorce rate.  Those kids tend to know what they want by 8th grade and Unicorn U are masters at finding 7th grade talent and who will be great academic achievers as well.  The other slow learners need more time to process all this shit.  It's confusing for us.  How many D1 schools now?  I'm telling you folks in SoCal are getting sold "scholarship" and thinking all paid in full.  This is right around 7th grade.  College night for 7th graders.  Once they realize the truth in 9th grade, the pressure comes.  UCSB, sign sign sign.  Again, I love the Gauchos.  No disrespect to them at all but it's not big time soccer and NO football.  Gotta have football if you want to have fun in college.  Take it or leave it playa!!!!  It's liking the one girl, but being told no and told to take this one.  Trust me, she's been looking for someone like you.............. desperately.......oh joy, I can feel the love



Nope since the year my kid got to UCLA they have one transfer out and 3 transfer in.  It’s over 95% that stay.  Why is it that way when it is the Hunger Games there?  They picked the school not the soccer...


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> Nope since the year my kid got to UCLA they have one transfer out and 3 transfer in.  It’s over 95% that stay.  Why is it that way when it is the Hunger Games there?  They picked the school not the soccer...


I appreciate da truth if you haven't figured it out. TY.  Her first dance partner she had any interest in came before she had her first period so that sucked.  4 11 not good too.  Bummer


----------



## soccer661

Yes....definitely feeling this for my DD this first week back!!!
Good luck to everyone's kiddo's!


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## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> Nope since the year my kid got to UCLA they have one transfer out and 3 transfer in.  It’s over 95% that stay.  Why is it that way when it is the Hunger Games there?  They picked the school not the soccer...


WE WANT THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP ME GOD.  I know the truth hurts sometimes so please shall more MAP.


----------



## MakeAPlay

ToonArmy said:


> Do they even get to go to football games when it's in the same season? Especially UCLA home games other side of LA county to Pasadena from Westwood?


They get to see the first half if it home and they have a game that next day.  They miss most of them.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> WE WANT THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP ME GOD.  I know the truth hurts sometimes so please shall more MAP.


??????


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> His kid is 2022 so unless Florida State or $C is her desired destination, the prettiest girls at the dance have already filled up their dance card for that year.   However, offering a roster spot doesn’t cost the school a thing.  They still want you to have the skills to be able to keep up in the drills.


Dr said she would be 5 6'.  I yelled to AC in parking lot, 5 6' yelled look at her feet fornGid sakes, 8 1/2 show size now.  I ran to her DA coach and begged for one more tryout for dd and he said no!!!!, she had her chance.  UCSB or Boise????  Hurry  hurry,e ride now asap b4 da rules change.  Step right up.I make call for Free free Ride.  I know all coaches, they know me. Vermont is looking.  San Marcos?


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> ??????


The real life on da pitch and da studies brah when r babies get out of da nest.  Its sobering to hear the TRUTH!!!  I haven't heard the truth since I got on here.  Bad DOC at Big Club with Bad Coach. Realize need both to stay and play in da game after HS soccer. I honestly went in after winning the National Championship that my kid was that. So arrogant of me now that I look back. When u dont make da list and u got far far away coaches interested in da free ride for my child and she's not having any of it at 14 its wakes u up fast as dad MAP. Having a month to decide b4 da rule change sucks too since dd not good at da time with da studies.  Wanted too much fun becoming teenager. I told her not to worry about it.  Things will get better when u have a 4.4 GPA and stay juggling soccer ball for mandatory test, plus run beat test too.  Practice, study at night, practice, study some more, practice, study and then juggle, watch video, watch men play soccer on TV and report back.  Bad DOC said I know all coaches.  Where u want to play at playa......


----------



## MakeAPlay

Ellejustus said:


> The real life on da pitch and da studies brah when r babies get out of da nest.  Its sobering to hear the TRUTH!!!  I haven't heard the truth since I got on here.  Bad DOC at Big Club with Bad Coach. Realize need both to stay and play in da game after HS soccer. I honestly went in after winning the National Championship that my kid was that. So arrogant of me now that I look back. When u dont make da list and u got far far away coaches interested in da free ride for my child and she's not having any of it at 14 its wakes u up fast as dad MAP. Having a month to decide b4 da rule change sucks too since dd not good at da time with da studies.  Wanted too much fun becoming teenager. I told her not to worry about it.  Things will get better when u have a 4.4 GPA and stay juggling soccer ball for mandatory test, plus run beat test too.  Practice, study at night, practice, study some more, practice, study and then juggle, watch video, watch men play soccer on TV and report back.  Bad DOC said I know all coaches.  Where u want to play at playa......


Look you are losing me here.  My daughter was on ASB, was the student rep to the city council so she had to go to those meetings weekly.  She got straight A’s, played high school soccer, ODP, ECNL, went on family vacations (missing games usually when she did) had friends, a boyfriend, played video games with her brother, spent time with her granny, had time for me and wasn’t going n the YNT until after she committed to the reigning National Champions, yet was the second player committed in her recruiting class and has started all 68 games that she has played in her career (she missed one game her freshman year because she had mono and strep but was suited up if the game was close).  Girls can have it all.  I don’t know why you don’t see this.

Focus on the journey.  The rest works itself out.  That’s the last that I will say about it.  My kid had her first practice today and she said it went awesome.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> They get to see the first half if it home and they have a game that next day.  They miss most of them.





MakeAPlay said:


> Look you are losing me here.  My daughter was on ASB, was the student rep to the city council so she had to go to those meetings weekly.  She got straight A’s, played high school soccer, ODP, ECNL, went on family vacations (missing games usually when she did) had friends, a boyfriend, played video games with her brother, spent time with her granny, had time for me and wasn’t going n the YNT until after she committed to the reigning National Champions, yet was the second player committed in her recruiting class and has started all 68 games that she has played in her career (she missed one game her freshman year because she had mono and strep but was suited up if the game was close).  Girls can have it all.  I don’t know why you don’t see this.
> 
> Focus on the journey.  The rest works itself out.  That’s the last that I will say about it.  My kid had her first practice today and she said it went awesome.
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


She is one talented dd You have MAP.  I mean that from one dad to another .  I know folks ask me to go away and I told them not to read my toxic shit but they do. I see da views.  You have been hitting me with da facts which I need MAP.  I now know why my dd felt like a loser and complete misfit at her first college night when she was in 7th grade.  Then in 9th grade had to turn report card with GPA.  DD thought the DA was to make da list, not college. She had dear in head light moment like time when she didnt juggle 500 times at first TC.  Not prepared right? More on her first TC event later when I start seeking da truth :


----------



## Ellejustus

PBS PBS PBS
Dont read anymore ****** Toxic Toxic except we all getting some good info. Ty for all advice. Much better than bad DOC AT BIG CLUB. I'm almost done. NO HS Soccer except for Private Kids.  Why?  Please US SOCCER FEDERATION from USA govt allow my dd to do play soccer at public HS funded by USA but Federation says NO HS Soccer. Why why why? Please, need to make list that DOC said she had a chance. DD dont care now just want to play against all the top DA talent going to Unicorn U with all YNT playa even if sit in bench for 5 years. Play play play only.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for saying my PBS is Dumb SC Fan.  Go UCLA FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT.  Go HS SOCCER......


----------



## MWN

Ellejustus said:


> Please US SOCCER FEDERATION from USA govt allow my dd to do play soccer at public HS funded by USA but Federation says NO HS Soccer.


Are you aware that the US Soccer Federation has no government funding, except for the fact they are a 501(c)(3)?  Not funded at all by tax payer dollars.


----------



## pewpew

@Ellejustus   One question..WHAT ARE YOU DRINKING?? Your posts are running the train completely off the rails!! Seriously. 
Listen to what others are telling you..or don't. But you really need to step back from the keyboard..take a few deep breaths..and go to bed and hopefully wake up tomorrow with a different mindset.  (You're gonna wake up tomorrow and see what you posted today and say WTH?? to yourself.) Good luck to you and your kid.


----------



## BigSoccer

Florida International has football and beach.  CalPoly... USD even has football.  UCSD is going D1 and she can go watch SDSU play Boise..  
The point is you seem to be hyper focused and spread thin.  Sit back and enjoy because before you know it you are watch ber play from her laptop and hoping she calls before she goes out to a frat party with her friends.


----------



## Ellejustus

MWN said:


> Are you aware that the US Soccer Federation has no government funding, except for the fact they are a 501(c)(3)?  Not funded at all by tax payer dollars.


OK thank you.  I was confused with *US Soccer Federation.  *Sounds like from the govt.  TY for da help.  I'm almost over it and then I will come back o forum after big speed dating June 15th 2020 to check to see who got hitched.  My dd is taller now so maybe she will be wanted at the dance.


----------



## Ellejustus

BigSoccer said:


> Florida International has football and beach.  CalPoly... USD even has football.  UCSD is going D1 and she can go watch SDSU play Boise..
> The point is you seem to be hyper focused and spread thin.  Sit back and enjoy because before you know it you are watch ber play from her laptop and hoping she calls before she goes out to a frat party with her friends.


TY.  I tried to sit back but BIG CLUB DOC made life hard for my dd which affects her daddy.  You know how we get when are kids get screwed.  This is not about YNT or Pro contract or college deal in 7th grade that slipped out of her grasp at the last minute. It's about a girl who doesn't understand why she can't play hs soccer in a league sponsored by the US SOCCER FEDERATION.  Were not asking to be on YNT, that ship sailed long ago.  Not looking for D1 coach to call 8th grader for free deal.  Just want to play HS Soccer right now.  Is that to much to ask?  Why private school kids get waiver and public school kid is told no?  Do good in HS first than go to college? Why tell 7th grader skip HS Soccer and go directly to dumb college game with running clock and stupid sub rule before 1/2.


----------



## Soccer43

Seriously, it is time to take the advice of some of the posters here to step away from the keyboard.  Your posts are pretty out there at this point.  If you are like this in real life that may be the real problem with dd's recruiting and club experience.  Coaches don't want to deal with crazy, over the top parents.  Take a breath and take a break from this site.


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccer43 said:


> Seriously, it is time to take the advice of some of the posters here to step away from the keyboard.  Your posts are pretty out there at this point.  If you are like this in real life that may be the real problem with dd's recruiting and club experience.  Coaches don't want to deal with crazy, over the top parents.  Take a breath and take a break from this site.


Like I said, you can have YNT and College deal Soccer43, BIG CLUB does not like me.  Like Kicker said I went around SoCal listening to the DA Pitches at every location getting sold the DA Koolaide.  Sage advice for 12 and 13 year olds....stay local and play local.  Soccer is now FREE unlike before. Today's player must PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE 10 months a year, 4 days a week, video watching from crazy coach yelling at your da kids when she's 12 & 13.  Not Series A Paper coach.  Not healthy for any 12 year old.  Walked away from FREE opportunity in middle school.  My kid ONLY wants to play HS Soccer right now because she's in HS at a public school but only private school kids get waivers.  Why?????   Anyone please?  How many players actual got waivers?  How many in SoCal?  I don't think it's that many witch makes me ponder why the the waiver in the first place.  Everyone thinks I'm nuts.  One day dd is winning a National Championship for da team and next she's a shit out of luck because of HS Soccer.  Is that fair?  Either no HS Soccer for all or HS Soccer for all.  HS SOCCER FOR ALL is my new slogan because I don't like folks feeling that if there rich enough they get a pass with da rules.  Doesn't seem fair where I come from.  You want the rules to be fair for all and their not.  Help someone, please help the rules are not even.  Please someone help!!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

pewpew said:


> @Ellejustus   One question..WHAT ARE YOU DRINKING?? Your posts are running the train completely off the rails!! Seriously.
> Listen to what others are telling you..or don't. But you really need to step back from the keyboard..take a few deep breaths..and go to bed and hopefully wake up tomorrow with a different mindset.  (You're gonna wake up tomorrow and see what you posted today and say WTH?? to yourself.) Good luck to you and your kid.


TY you for kind response friend.  Seeking answers now.


----------



## Ellejustus

BigSoccer said:


> Florida International has football and beach.  CalPoly... USD even has football.  UCSD is going D1 and she can go watch SDSU play Boise..
> The point is you seem to be hyper focused and spread thin.  Sit back and enjoy because before you know it you are watch ber play from her laptop and hoping she calls before she goes out to a frat party with her friends.


No thanks for now.  Looking to play HS soccer only because shes in HS now.  Worry about college soccer later.  Not worried about her. Shes free to choose whatever she wants and she wants HS Soccer and to play against da best in any league she chooses regardless of public school kid.  Why private school kids get a waiver?? Answers anyone?  Stats on how many and where?  Ty


----------



## pewpew

1250am...3 members logged on. @Ellejustus @pewpew  and one other. Why are you still logged on?? Go to bed. At least I have an excuse. I'm at work. I keep bouncing back here to see what you're doing..morbid curiosity on my part I guess. Plus I have popcorn to eat while watching this circus.
And to think..I thought @espola was bat-shit crazy..turns out he's just old. 
Just kidding "E" !!


----------



## Ellejustus

pewpew said:


> 1250am...3 members logged on. @Ellejustus @pewpew  and one other. Why are you still logged on?? Go to bed. At least I have an excuse. I'm at work. I keep bouncing back here to see what you're doing..morbid curiosity on my part I guess. Plus I have popcorn to eat while watching this circus.
> And to think..I thought @espola was bat-shit crazy..turns out he's just old.
> Just kidding "E" !!


It's the drinking.  I had to switch from the koolaid and get on the vegetable juice. I'm on fire and it's all natural dude. I got truth seeking questions for tmrw about the first TC in San Diego.  Thanks for reading. Just looking for answers so I can finally move on.  She just wants to play the game wherever and with whomever in any league of her choosing including HS, ECNl, DA, AYSO, CSL, DPL, ECNL 2, Pro, YNT dumb college game if she wants it and a coach wants her.  Hopefully no one will remember my toxic posts about  BIG CLUB.  Stay tune tmrw brah


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## Ellejustus

timmyh said:


> Life doesn't work the way you want it to, EJ.  Sometimes, oftentimes actually, you're gonna be better off playing by the rules of whatever system you find yourself in.  Whether that's school or work or society or even youth/college soccer.
> 
> Choosing to throw your hands up and not participate (I will never have my daughter write a college) or trying and roll the boulder uphill and fight the system is a recipe for not ending up in a happy place.
> 
> You want your girl to receive an offer to play soccer at UCLA.  If accomplishing that is the sole bar for your (or your daughter's) ability to find happiness, that's a very, very narrow needle to thread.  Thousands of people want that.  Dozens will succeed.
> 
> You're upset your daughter did not already receive offers from the "big football school near the beach," yet you chose to not allow your daughter to participate in the "societal norms" for how that normally happens because you find the process silly and distasteful.  Fair enough. Many agree with you.  But that's your choice and it comes with consequences.
> 
> Your daughter is not sure that she wants to go to college.  Fair enough.  But if she's really upset that she didn't get a full ride to her dream school when others did, that seems contradictory.
> 
> You want your daughter to play on the YNT, yet are fighting against maximizing the odds of that happening by actively avoiding any DA teams (including, if I understand correctly, the team she wants to play on that includes a lot of her friends).  Fair enough.  But that's also a choice and it comes with consequences.
> 
> It seems like you're more interested in abiding by some "code of honor" you've created for how you believe this process should ideally work, even if it's at the expense of what might be in your daughter's best interest.
> 
> You seem to want very specific, high value reward for your daughter, yet appear to me to be sabotaging any possibility of it actually happening.  "Doing this your way" is preventing her from participating in actions that would likely increase the odds of her accomplishing her goals (your goals?).  Perhaps that's on purpose so that there's eventually an excuse for why it didn't happen (when it was truthfully unlikely to ever happen).
> 
> But if not, I think you should either re-evaluate your goals or re-evaluate your plan for how to maximize your chances for reaching those goals.  Otherwise, if happiness equals reality divided by expectations, I fear you may struggle to find the joy that so, so, so many others have found in this process.


Thank you for kind words.  Looking for answers.  You seem nice.  You see, my little dd followed the rules of the DA when told No HS soccer for anyone in DA. But right when we switched to other league with those dumb rules like running clock and sub before 1/2, some of the private school kids got a waiver when the rules said no HS Soccer. So I'm trying to find out why at the last minute the private school kids (typically, parents of private school kids have few more $$$ than the rest of us and most likely have college all planned for little baby girl way before their born) got da waiver and the public school kid was told to go to another league or come back and quit HS Soccer because DOC at BIG CLUB said HS Soccer is bad and will make you worse.  If that's true than why then the same DOC get waiver for the same players from da winning team?


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## Ellejustus

dk_b said:


> Thanks for posting that.  While 1/3 of the soccer class will need to be adjusted to the later years, I do think the impact on all players is significant (1/3 is not a small number), just as ECNL and GDA impact the players on NPL teams and at clubs none of us has heard of.  I have mentioned that I have kids at a small club - their top teams are NPL and they occasionally have a solid age cohort that cause challenges to elite teams.  Or caused back in the days that ECNL and GDA did not exist.  Now it is tough - there is way more player movement from those small clubs (even non-elite players and even with a longer recruiting pathway).  I do think that the new rules will cause a bottleneck at first but, after a class or two, it will sort itself out.  (and, given the just-prior rule changes, how did any player commit early w/o actually seeing the inside of the facilities and seeing a coach and players interact from up close?  The unofficial visits were absolutely KEY in my daughter making her decision (and my spouse and me feeling comfortable about it))


TY. My dd and I have felt the bottle necking and it sucks.  I'm a realist and it's just sad that the 04 and dare I say the 03s got screwed By Big Club and their greed.  A couple sharp, smart, determined dads with a few bucks changed soccer for ever.  I'm shocked they pulled it off because they originally told me they were going all in ECNL because you guessed it, HS Soccer is big time across the country.  Lots of power deals going on in the back room of US Soccer I guess. My dd actually left because she was sold ECNL instead of DA from the Da Club.  I was all DA before DA at Big Club if that makes any since.  DD got invite to check out the digs in Norco.  Dad drank da koolaid for da first time.  Then the winning club decided to switch signs overnight and become the BiG CLUB like the others.  Confusing times for my dd and me.  Which is it going to be, DA or ECNL?  Anyway, dd never wanted to leave in first place and missed the gang and we went back.  Its sounds horrible but keep in mind at this time my dd was sought after by daclubs and they were offering FREE soccer which at time was short on cash.  I see now it was wrong.  I think the boys were holding out for the big deal.  Anyway, they got the big deal and it was all in DA and bye bye ECNL. (Kicker I know you think they had both but they went with DA and got da reward for it.  ECNL was not too happy).  ECNL pleaded with them for mercy but it was a no.  My dd said I should write a book because you cant make this shit up. All this to make $$$$ off little girls.  There is more but I'm tired now. I'll see u all tmrw.


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## Ellejustus

I know it's late but has anyone told their daughters it's ok if they dont go to college?  Is that ok to say in today's America?  The Pressure parents feel to get kids in college is getting out of hand folks.  I think that's the biggest problem I see.  It's not really soccer is it?  You all feel the pressure.  Since I'm not from the education side I now realize I'm the misfit when the whole time I thought all of you were.  I dont care about college, just jonesing for some pure competition like the old days.  25% guarantee start is still confusing for me.


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## MWN

@Ellejustus,

The DA posts its waiver rules.  The waiver for private schools kids is supposed to be for those private school kids on a scholarship/reduced tuition where playing on the team is part of their discount/scholarship for the private school.

More likely than not, this rule is being abused by the private school parents/private school.  The normal method is:

Private School: Jenny's tuition is $12,000 per year, here is your invoice.
Parent: Jenny is on a DA team and still wants to play on the school team, can we reflect a tuition discount of $5,000 on this invoice as an athletic scholarship?
Private School: Maybe, if you donated $5,000 to the building fund.
Parent: Deal.

Now the parent has a invoice reflecting a athletic scholarship and can ask the DA for a waiver.

With regard to your impression of US Soccer and the DA program, let me give you a quick history lesson:

11 years ago, US Soccer looked at the Boys development and said, damn, we have kids all over the board with different quality, we need to take control of this thing, so the Boy's DA league was started.  The Boy's DA League was aimed at unifying all the elite boys in a league that could easily be monitored by US Soccer for purposes of tracking the development of these boys.

8-9 years later, after a lawsuit or two by the women claiming discrimination in their treatment (fields, pay, training facilities, etc.), the women pointed to the fact that there was no Girl's DA league as further evidence of a double standard.  At the time, US Soccer's response was "Girls don't need a national league because the ECNL (US Club) and ODP and National League (US Youth) is doing a fine job."  The Women said "b.s. we want a league of our own or we sue."

10 years after the boys DA was started US Soccer caved to the demand (not wanting to get sued) and started the girls DA.  Truth be told, the "powers that be" at US Soccer think its stupid because (1) the ODP and ECNL was doing a great job of identifying top talent and (2) College programs soccer were doing a great job of continuing the development of players after youth development.

Make no mistake, US Soccer (aka the Federation) would prefer to not have the headache because they were doing really great without it and only started the Girls DA because the women in soccer was using the lack of a DA as evidence of discrimination.

US Soccer is in a catch-22 at this time.  On the men's side, the MLS is a closed-single entity system that is almost ready to move to the next level but has to deal with a players association run by idiots.  The Players Association are idiots because they have threatened legal action if the MLS (with US Soccer's blessing) adopts training and solidarity payments in line with the rest of the world (rather than working with the MLS and US Soccer on a solution).   But, we can't say the Player's Association position is entirely wrong at this time, because of the MLS's closed system the avoids a free market.  The lack of solidarity and training fees means the DA system is a monumental money loser.

On the women's side, the NWSL is and will be a money loser for may years to come.  Success on the National Team level simply doesn't translate to success at the local level.  US Soccer is trying to figure out how to keep the NWSL floating while dealing with a USWNT that is solely looking out for themselves and not women's soccer as a whole.

Is US Soccer corrupt?  No, it finally has decent leadership now that Sunni is out of the picture.  The fact we now have a GM picking the coaches, rather than Sunni, is great.   But our problems run deeper than most understand because I doubt all but a very small few have even read Article 19 and how it screws our youth players over.


----------



## dk_b

MWN said:


> @Ellejustus,
> 
> The DA posts its waiver rules.  The waiver for private schools kids is supposed to be for those private school kids on a scholarship/reduced tuition where playing on the team is part of their discount/scholarship for the private school.
> 
> More likely than not, this rule is being abused by the private school parents/private school.  The normal method is:
> 
> Private School: Jenny's tuition is $12,000 per year, here is your invoice.
> Parent: Jenny is on a DA team and still wants to play on the school team, can we reflect a tuition discount of $5,000 on this invoice as an athletic scholarship?
> Private School: Maybe, if you donated $5,000 to the building fund.
> Parent: Deal.
> 
> Now the parent has a invoice reflecting a athletic scholarship and can ask the DA for a waiver.
> 
> With regard to your impression of US Soccer and the DA program, let me give you a quick history lesson:
> 
> 11 years ago, US Soccer looked at the Boys development and said, damn, we have kids all over the board with different quality, we need to take control of this thing, so the Boy's DA league was started.  The Boy's DA League was aimed at unifying all the elite boys in a league that could easily be monitored by US Soccer for purposes of tracking the development of these boys.
> 
> 8-9 years later, after a lawsuit or two by the women claiming discrimination in their treatment (fields, pay, training facilities, etc.), the women pointed to the fact that there was no Girl's DA league as further evidence of a double standard.  At the time, US Soccer's response was "Girls don't need a national league because the ECNL (US Club) and ODP and National League (US Youth) is doing a fine job."  The Women said "b.s. we want a league of our own or we sue."
> 
> 10 years after the boys DA was started US Soccer caved to the demand (not wanting to get sued) and started the girls DA.  Truth be told, the "powers that be" at US Soccer think its stupid because (1) the ODP and ECNL was doing a great job of identifying top talent and (2) College programs soccer were doing a great job of continuing the development of players after youth development.
> 
> Make no mistake, US Soccer (aka the Federation) would prefer to not have the headache because they were doing really great without it and only started the Girls DA because the women in soccer was using the lack of a DA as evidence of discrimination.


I feel that I've followed the GDA discussion pretty closely over the years as my oldest was on the early edge of players directly impacted while my youngers are not yet in HS and at a small club and feel the impact of the GDA/ECNL battle.  But you recount a part of the history I have never heard before.  I believe you but am wondering if there was any reporting on this at the time it was occurring?  I ask b/c USSF seems committed to GDA and to undermining ECNL (hey, market forces are what they are) in a way that seems to vary from what I'd expect if litigation avoidance was the driving force.  Again, I believe what you wrote but am interested in a bit more color.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## beachbum

MWN said:


> Are you aware that the US Soccer Federation has no government funding, except for the fact they are a 501(c)(3)?  Not funded at all by tax payer dollars.


I thought the same thing until i looked up their 990 and they received a grant for just over $1,500,000 in 2017.


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## Ellejustus

MWN said:


> @Ellejustus,
> 
> The DA posts its waiver rules.  The waiver for private schools kids is supposed to be for those private school kids on a scholarship/reduced tuition where playing on the team is part of their discount/scholarship for the private school.
> 
> More likely than not, this rule is being abused by the private school parents/private school.  The normal method is:
> 
> Private School: Jenny's tuition is $12,000 per year, here is your invoice.
> Parent: Jenny is on a DA team and still wants to play on the school team, can we reflect a tuition discount of $5,000 on this invoice as an athletic scholarship?
> Private School: Maybe, if you donated $5,000 to the building fund.
> Parent: Deal.
> 
> Now the parent has a invoice reflecting a athletic scholarship and can ask the DA for a waiver.
> 
> With regard to your impression of US Soccer and the DA program, let me give you a quick history lesson:
> 
> 11 years ago, US Soccer looked at the Boys development and said, damn, we have kids all over the board with different quality, we need to take control of this thing, so the Boy's DA league was started.  The Boy's DA League was aimed at unifying all the elite boys in a league that could easily be monitored by US Soccer for purposes of tracking the development of these boys.
> 
> 8-9 years later, after a lawsuit or two by the women claiming discrimination in their treatment (fields, pay, training facilities, etc.), the women pointed to the fact that there was no Girl's DA league as further evidence of a double standard.  At the time, US Soccer's response was "Girls don't need a national league because the ECNL (US Club) and ODP and National League (US Youth) is doing a fine job."  The Women said "b.s. we want a league of our own or we sue."
> 
> 10 years after the boys DA was started US Soccer caved to the demand (not wanting to get sued) and started the girls DA.  Truth be told, the "powers that be" at US Soccer think its stupid because (1) the ODP and ECNL was doing a great job of identifying top talent and (2) College programs soccer were doing a great job of continuing the development of players after youth development.
> 
> Make no mistake, US Soccer (aka the Federation) would prefer to not have the headache because they were doing really great without it and only started the Girls DA because the women in soccer was using the lack of a DA as evidence of discrimination.
> 
> US Soccer is in a catch-22 at this time.  On the men's side, the MLS is a closed-single entity system that is almost ready to move to the next level but has to deal with a players association run by idiots.  The Players Association are idiots because they have threatened legal action if the MLS (with US Soccer's blessing) adopts training and solidarity payments in line with the rest of the world (rather than working with the MLS and US Soccer on a solution).   But, we can't say the Player's Association position is entirely wrong at this time, because of the MLS's closed system the avoids a free market.  The lack of solidarity and training fees means the DA system is a monumental money loser.
> 
> On the women's side, the NWSL is and will be a money loser for may years to come.  Success on the National Team level simply doesn't translate to success at the local level.  US Soccer is trying to figure out how to keep the NWSL floating while dealing with a USWNT that is solely looking out for themselves and not women's soccer as a whole.
> 
> Is US Soccer corrupt?  No, it finally has decent leadership now that Sunni is out of the picture.  The fact we now have a GM picking the coaches, rather than Sunni, is great.   But our problems run deeper than most understand because I doubt all but a very small few have even read Article 19 and how it screws our youth players over.


THANK YOU!!!  I was told by the higher ups at BIG CLUB that waivers were for only kids who needed financial assistance and this was a way for them to get a better education through sports.  I can't argue that and if you come from a poor family and a private schools helps  you because of soccer I'm all good with that.  However, the girls my dd saw do both DA and HS Soccer had very nice castles.  So for me and my dd, that's the big disconnect or injustices as some say.  LET IT GO, LET IT GO, LET IT GO THEY  say........."I DON'T CARE ABOUT COLLEGE THIS STAGE ON HER CAREER, JUST HS SOCCER AND WHY OTHERS GOT PRIVATE KID WAIVER"


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## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> THANK YOU!!!  I was told by the higher ups at BIG CLUB that waivers were for only kids who needed financial assistance and this was a way for them to get a better education through sports.  I can't argue that and if you come from a poor family and a private schools helps  you because of soccer I'm all good with that.  However, the girls my dd saw do both DA and HS Soccer had very nice castles.  So for me and my dd, that's the big disconnect or injustices as some say.  LET IT GO, LET IT GO, LET IT GO THEY  say........."I DON'T CARE ABOUT COLLEGE THIS STAGE ON HER CAREER, JUST HS SOCCER AND WHY OTHERS GOT PRIVATE KID WAIVER"





beachbum said:


> I thought the same thing until i looked up their 990 and they received a grant for just over $1,500,000 in 2017.


Interesting, TY.


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## cerebro de fútbol

Ellejustus said:


> THANK YOU!!!  I was told by the higher ups at BIG CLUB that waivers were for only kids who needed financial assistance and this was a way for them to get a better education through sports.  I can't argue that and if you come from a poor family and a private schools helps  you because of soccer I'm all good with that.  However, the girls my dd saw do both DA and HS Soccer had very nice castles.  So for me and my dd, that's the big disconnect or injustices as some say.  LET IT GO, LET IT GO, LET IT GO THEY  say........."I DON'T CARE ABOUT COLLEGE THIS STAGE ON HER CAREER, JUST HS SOCCER AND WHY OTHERS GOT PRIVATE KID WAIVER"


If you are always are comparing yourself and your dd to others you will never enjoy the journey.  Do what’s best for you and your family.


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## Ellejustus

cerebro de fútbol said:


> If you are always are comparing yourself and your dd to others you will never enjoy the journey.  Do what’s best for you and your family.


TY.  That's exactly what I'm doing and to WARN all my fellow Americans that something is dirty and messy with *Youth Girls Soccer/BIG CLUB,US SOCCER FEDERATION/COLLEGE *right here in SoCal. Its all tied together and it seems like one BIG CLUB is getting all the Benjamins, 3 locations with more to come I'm sure. and of course, da waivers for private school kids who want to play HS.  Seems unfair, no?  All my kid got was being pushed in front of college coaches in 7th and 8th grade and then told No HS Soccer a year later.  MAP, did you have big time colleges trying to get to your kid in 7th or 8th?  My kid only wanted to make da list, not college when she was 13.  Do you understand now?  This is a classic bait and switch.  You think I got a case?


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## Ellejustus

http://www.ussoccerda.com/girls-academy Has anyone ever care to look at the home page on this site?  It's seems old with no new news.  No new articles, stories, excitement of da future ect.  This thing needs to go away.  What a joke of org.  Piss off 1/3 of the country, put down great college coaches and mock legends in SoCal so you can have power.  Stop trying to get girls to be boys, there not!!!  I'm sure years from now you will have 18 year old girls wondering what the hell happen to their youth..


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## BigSoccer

Be happy with what you have.  It won't be there for long and it goes by quickly.  My daughter is a few years away and my son is going off to college next year (this is his last year of soccer).  
It could be worse you could have a boy on a DA tier two team and still not be able to play high school and also be told your club is not worthy of tier one status.


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## Ellejustus

BigSoccer said:


> Be happy with what you have.  It won't be there for long and it goes by quickly.  My daughter is a few years away and my son is going off to college next year (this is his last year of soccer).
> It could be worse you could have a boy on a DA tier two team and still not be able to play high school and also be told your club is not worthy of tier one status.


I'm having the best time of my life right now.  My son, my wife and my baby girl, what more can u ask.  Just looking for answers.


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## BigSoccer

Ellejustus said:


> I'm having the best time of my life right now.  My son, my wife and my baby girl, what more can u ask.  Just looking for answers.


You will not find the answers you seek.  Private School gets waivers why because sometimes tuition is tied into play.  Public school does not.  It isn't a rich man poor man scenario it is US Soccer trying to be "fair" and not eliminate or exclude ones education.  Now that may be hypocritical since they exclude plenty but that is the only answer you will find.  

We all have choices to make right.  So no DA but she gets HS.  Now if a coach has misled you that is a different talk and different post.  there are options too.  Why not go ECNL for your daughter.  It appears the best option.


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## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> I'm having the best time of my life right now.  My son, my wife and my baby girl, what more can u ask.  Just looking for answers.


You’ve gotten them....playing the role of victim doesn’t suit you or your DD.  We’ e ALL been wronged at some point in this soccer landscape. 

My DD took it as a que to work harder.

If the NT is her goal, there are plenty of years ahead to accomplish this, even after ECNL or DA. What I can tell you with 100% certainty is that every girl who has made the Camps or YNT roster put in more than 4 days a week when it comes to training.  Those who have a real interest in playing for a Top school, are putting in the work not only training, but in writing emails to The Coaches, attending their ID Camps and putting together highlight videos.

If you don’t put in the work to reach your goals, don’t expect the goals to come to you.

Peace out......

Best of luck to you and your DD.  That’s the last words I have for you.


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## Ellejustus

***Training Center News Coming****

I think Fact was onto something that slip my mind a few days ago.  I got all worked because folks like Fact that I was trying to build a super a team so my dd could win and make da list or get #11.  No No No.  That's why I got a little worked up with Fact because it's the furthest from da truth.  It's much worse than that.  DOCs need to go.......get rid of the "middle man" in this sport quickly.  Your dds will get deal without them.  You don't need da "middle man."  Trust me.........


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## espola

BigSoccer said:


> You will not find the answers you seek.  Private School gets waivers why because sometimes tuition is tied into play.  Public school does not.  It isn't a rich man poor man scenario it is US Soccer trying to be "fair" and not eliminate or exclude ones education.  Now that may be hypocritical since they exclude plenty but that is the only answer you will find.
> 
> We all have choices to make right.  So no DA but she gets HS.  Now if a coach has misled you that is a different talk and different post.  there are options too.  Why not go ECNL for your daughter.  It appears the best option.


Athletic scholarships for private schools are illegal according to CIF rules - except when they are not.


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## timmyh

Ellejustus said:


> ***Training Center News Coming****
> 
> I think Fact was onto something that slip my mind a few days ago.  I got all worked because folks like Fact that I was trying to build a super a team so my dd could win and make da list or get #11.  No No No.  That's why I got a little worked up with Fact because it's the furthest from da truth.  It's much worse than that.  DOCs need to go.......get rid of the "middle man" in this sport quickly.  Your dds will get deal without them.  You don't need da "middle man."  Trust me.........


Based on what I can make out from your increasingly incoherent ramblings, the Middle Man/DOC that you now seem to blame for your current "predicament" of your daughter not getting an early full ride to UCLA not only asked your daughter to put together a list of top 5 schools so that he could help her connect with them during a window of opportunity that it appears her teammates took full advantage of  (meanwhile, you directed her to not participate), but even was able to have the head coach of your daughter's dream school come attend a practice of hers (which you seem to have oddly taken as a personal affront).  So far in this story your "middle man" is coming across to me as being quite helpful and capable.

I don't know what to tell you, EJ, but the DOC doesn't seem to be your daughter's problem.   You've gotten pages of quality advice for how to navigate the choppy waters of elite youth soccer.  It's now clear that you don't want answers, but rather you want validation for your excuses.

The pantomime villain you seek to blame - the one that your daughter should be disappointed in - might live a little closer to home.


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## espola

timmyh said:


> Based on what I can make out from your increasingly incoherent ramblings, the Middle Man/DOC that you now seem to blame for your current "predicament" of your daughter not getting an early full ride to UCLA not only asked your daughter to put together a list of top 5 schools so that he could help her connect with them during a window of opportunity that it appears her teammates took full advantage of  (meanwhile, you directed her to not participate), but even was able to have the head coach of your daughter's dream school come attend a practice of hers (which you seem to have oddly taken as a personal affront).  So far in this story your "middle man" is coming across to me as being quite helpful and capable.
> 
> I don't know what to tell you, EJ, but the DOC doesn't seem to be your daughter's problem.   You've gotten pages of quality advice for how to navigate the choppy waters of elite youth soccer.  It's now clear that you don't want answers, but rather you want validation for your excuses.
> 
> The pantomime villain you seek to blame - the one that your daughter should be disappointed in - might live a little closer to home.


There are much nicer campuses in the UC system than UCLA.


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## Ellejustus

BigSoccer said:


> You will not find the answers you seek.  Private School gets waivers why because sometimes tuition is tied into play.  Public school does not.  It isn't a rich man poor man scenario it is US Soccer trying to be "fair" and not eliminate or exclude ones education.  Now that may be hypocritical since they exclude plenty but that is the only answer you will find.
> 
> We all have choices to make right.  So no DA but she gets HS.  Now if a coach has misled you that is a different talk and different post.  there are options too.  Why not go ECNL for your daughter.  It appears the best option.


TY for kind advice sir/mam. 
Q1- What if tuition is not tied to play, just that little girl wants to play with her friends too just like some of the girls who go to public school?  *Some say if you donate some $$$ to a building then you get waiver signed.  I'm not sure, Ive never been to private schools but I know kids that did and some, not all, got what they wanted most of time
Q2 Do home school kids get a waiver?*

Choice is an interesting word you used Big Soccer.  You see, the DA and BIG CLUB is not giving my dd a choice to do both DA and HS Soccer if she wants to, only PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS.  That's the problem we have.  So it's our choice to start a discussion on this Toxic Topic.  We also want ALL options to choose from just like all da and other kids that play.  There is no pro contract for 99.9% of our dds.  If she was a boy, then I wouldn't be on here because he would be going for da pros.  It's only about college really, right?  Where they have those dumb rules like running clock and subs before 1/2.  BAIT & SWITCH!!!!!  So sad to hear countless stories of kids flying around the country to go see da scouts in cold weather and play 30 minutes total for 3 games.  Coach tells the team, "some of you this weekend will learn whats its like to sit on the bench and watch the game in 32 degree weather.  This is important because when you got Unicorn U you also will be sitting da bench.  PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.


----------



## Ellejustus

espola said:


> There are much nicer campuses in the UC system than UCLA.


Everyone thinks we want UCLA.  She only did when she was younger and I always had a ucla hat on too what else would you think.  It was never understood you ahve to go ther.  My brother was an All American Water Polo player there back when Wooden was in charge.  Coach, we really need some help here.  The BIG CLUB needs to flip their org chart upside down like Coach Wooden and put the freaking girls up at the top, not at the bottom!!!


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## espola

Ellejustus said:


> Everyone thinks we want UCLA.  She only did when she was younger and I always had a ucla hat on too what else would you think.  It was never understood you ahve to go ther.  My brother was an All American Water Polo player there back when Wooden was in charge.  Coach, we really need some help here.  The BIG CLUB needs to flip their org chart upside down like Coach Wooden and put the freaking girls up at the top, not at the bottom!!!


Wooden was in charge of water polo?

I did not know that.


----------



## Desert Hound

Ellejustus said:


> TY for kind advice sir/mam.
> Q1- What if tuition is not tied to play, just that little girl wants to play with her friends too just like some of the girls who go to public school?  *Some say if you donate some $$$ to a building then you get waiver signed.  I'm not sure, Ive never been to private schools but I know kids that did and some, not all, got what they wanted most of time
> Q2 Do home school kids get a waiver?*
> 
> Choice is an interesting word you used Big Soccer.  You see, the DA and BIG CLUB is not giving my dd a choice to do both DA and HS Soccer if she wants to, only PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS.  That's the problem we have.  So it's our choice to start a discussion on this Toxic Topic.  We also want ALL options to choose from just like all da and other kids that play.  There is no pro contract for 99.9% of our dds.  If she was a boy, then I wouldn't be on here because he would be going for da pros.  It's only about college really, right?  Where they have those dumb rules like running clock and subs before 1/2.  BAIT & SWITCH!!!!!  So sad to hear countless stories of kids flying around the country to go see da scouts in cold weather and play 30 minutes total for 3 games.  Coach tells the team, "some of you this weekend will learn whats its like to sit on the bench and watch the game in 32 degree weather.  This is important because when you got Unicorn U you also will be sitting da bench.  PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.


You do have a choice. Take you kid to ECNL. She can play HS soccer. And as you and others say there is no pro contract it is college...well as we know ECNL is a great path to college. Coaches recruit heavily from ECNL. 

Now to your point about waivers for HS for some private schools. 
Per the rules you can get a waiver and play. However at that point you are done for the season. So I am not sure how special that exclusion is for those players. Certainly not to the degree you think it is. 

"Full-time players registered with a DA Club will not be allowed to re-enter the program during the same season after participating in the high school season with their current or a different DA Club."

So...since HS seems to be a big sticking point for you and your DD, put her into a club where she can play it. Everyone knows going into DA about the HS rule.


----------



## Ellejustus

timmyh said:


> Based on what I can make out from your increasingly incoherent ramblings, the Middle Man/DOC that you now seem to blame for your current "predicament" of your daughter not getting an early full ride to UCLA not only asked your daughter to put together a list of top 5 schools so that he could help her connect with them during a window of opportunity that it appears her teammates took full advantage of  (meanwhile, you directed her to not participate), but even was able to have the head coach of your daughter's dream school come attend a practice of hers (which you seem to have oddly taken as a personal affront).  So far in this story your "middle man" is coming across to me as being quite helpful and capable.
> 
> I don't know what to tell you, EJ, but the DOC doesn't seem to be your daughter's problem.   You've gotten pages of quality advice for how to navigate the choppy waters of elite youth soccer.  It's now clear that you don't want answers, but rather you want validation for your excuses.
> 
> The pantomime villain you seek to blame - the one that your daughter should be disappointed in - might live a little closer to home.


Are you serious dude?  Tim, come on man.  I can hook you with "middle man" if you need help.  I didn't want my dd treated like a cheap date and used for others benefit.  Of course my dd wan't ready for anyone to check her out. It's not about da college.  Its about da list and playing HS Soccer.  Lets talk about da Big Coach coming to da practice when there 12 and 13.  How many practices did she go and run drills for at other clubs in SD?  This was more for da BIG CLUB then for da girls.  Nice for marketing to the other 10 year old cheetahs running in SD.  I know lot's of folks think we blew the chance.  Not me one chance.


----------



## soccer661

"You do have a choice. Take you kid to ECNL. She can play HS soccer. And as you and others say there is no pro contract it is college...well as we know ECNL is a great path to college. Coaches recruit heavily from ECNL."


YESSSSSSS.....agree with DH....the answer to all your problems.....you are so upset about DA and High school...why doesn't your DD try an good ECNL team -- LOTS of them out there....!!!??


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> You’ve gotten them....playing the role of victim doesn’t suit you or your DD.  We’ e ALL been wronged at some point in this soccer landscape.
> 
> My DD took it as a que to work harder.
> 
> If the NT is her goal, there are plenty of years ahead to accomplish this, even after ECNL or DA. What I can tell you with 100% certainty is that every girl who has made the Camps or YNT roster put in more than 4 days a week when it comes to training.  Those who have a real interest in playing for a Top school, are putting in the work not only training, but in writing emails to The Coaches, attending their ID Camps and putting together highlight videos.
> 
> If you don’t put in the work to reach your goals, don’t expect the goals to come to you.
> 
> Peace out......
> 
> Best of luck to you and your DD.  That’s the last words I have for you.


Kickker, what about first u14 list for our age group??????  How was that put together?  I'm not saying none of the girls were deserving, I promise.  I'm not jealous my kid didn;t make the cut first time or 2nd time.  I want to know the inner workings with DA BIG Club and US  Soccer for that year only.  US Feds were trying to get clubs to join.  Nice to have a little leverage you think?  She still wants to play against those on da list though.  Bummer


----------



## Ellejustus

espola said:


> Athletic scholarships for private schools are illegal according to CIF rules - except when they are not.


Something fishy out there folks


----------



## Desert Hound

Ellejustus said:


> Kickker, what about first u14 list for our age group??????  How was that put together?  I'm not saying none of the girls were deserving, I promise.  I'm not jealous my kid didn;t make the cut first time or 2nd time.  I want to know the inner workings with DA BIG Club and US  Soccer for that year only.  US Feds were trying to get clubs to join.  Nice to have a little leverage you think?  She still wants to play against those on da list though.  Bummer


How was the list put together? 

Easy. Like any other group or team that is put together. Coaches look and evaluate. That means it is very subjective overall. Some kids just stand out. Lots are close in skills to others that didn't make. Why didn't those with similar skills or possibly better skills make it? Because these types of processes are always going to be subjective.


----------



## Ellejustus

Desert Hound said:


> How was the list put together?
> 
> Easy. Like any other group or team that is put together. Coaches look and evaluate. That means it is very subjective overall. Some kids just stand
> 
> TY for response.  How were (12) 05's Picked?  Scouts?  Where?  No league?  No ODP for them and many of 04s were no shows because BIG CLUB SAID DON'T GO.  For the record, my dd said "screw you" and went for it anyways even though her mentors at da club said its a waste of time and it's all about TC now.  More on that later with the old DOC.  She made it to last group but got cut on last day.  So no trip to AZ and represent Cal South.  She was bummed but learned from it for sure.  That seem more of a fair process.  I'm sure Cal South loved that the BIG CLUB threw them under the bus like that telling all its Unicorns not to participate, capitalism at its finest.  BTW, the other girls were more deserving and played great.  Has anyone ever talked to all the BIG DOCS like I got to in the last 12 months or so?????  I took lots of notes because I was more confused than you could imagine. That's why I'm on here to sort it all out in the open.  Isn't that what forums are for?  You know why they called right? *Because my dd decided to play ECNL last year so she could play HS SOCCER *
> I gave first shot to the new BIG CLUB DOC because he asked for a minute of my time and I figured it's the least I can do.
> BIG DOC: So why does dd want leave the DA?
> Dad: She didn't make the list and DA won't allow for HS Soccer
> DOC: That list is a joke.  Half those girls have no biz on there........blah blah.
> DOC:  Its all about college anyways
> Dad:  No, for my dd it's about da list and HS Soccer Now
> DOC: OK, Ok, Ok.  Listen, we can put dd on the 01 ECNL team that way she can be challenged
> Dad: No thanks.  Thanks for your time and good luck to the girls.  She will miss them
> Dad later laying in bed.  "why did BIG NEW CLUB DOC tell me to play ECNL when it was going away sooner than a fart in da wind?  Maybe he was clueless.  I already talked with old BIG DOC and  higher ups and they all told me DA OR ECNL.  Deals were closed, sign and delievered and we know who they picked and got nice reward for it just like neighbor down the street.  Why mislead a stupid dad trying to find his dd a team to play on.  Poor 03s.  Horrible to treat customers like this.  But its all FREE.
> 
> The next BIG CLUB I went to Magic was getting into so I had to check this out.  Showtime baby.   No offense Kicker, I like Showtime and with Magic and Mia how could I pass the invite of a life time.  I will come back tomorrow for da rest of da story.
> 
> Suport Email for the developers
> DADADS@practtice4daysaweekvideowatchsoccertvandtrainforbigsquadcallup.com


----------



## Justafan

timmyh said:


> Based on what I can make out from your increasingly incoherent ramblings, the Middle Man/DOC that you now seem to blame for your current "predicament" of your daughter not getting an early full ride to UCLA not only asked your daughter to put together a list of top 5 schools so that he could help her connect with them during a window of opportunity that it appears her teammates took full advantage of  (meanwhile, you directed her to not participate), but even was able to have the head coach of your daughter's dream school come attend a practice of hers (which you seem to have oddly taken as a personal affront).  So far in this story your "middle man" is coming across to me as being quite helpful and capable.
> 
> I don't know what to tell you, EJ, but the DOC doesn't seem to be your daughter's problem.   You've gotten pages of quality advice for how to navigate the choppy waters of elite youth soccer.  It's now clear that you don't want answers, but rather you want validation for your excuses.
> 
> The pantomime villain you seek to blame - the one that your daughter should be disappointed in - might live a little closer to home.


Can you write my autobiography?


----------



## Justafan

All those in favor of an intervention on EJ say aye.


----------



## Ellejustus

Justafan said:


> All those in favor of an intervention on EJ say aye.


Mock me all you want DADADS.  This is all about college for you and I get it.  Equal access brah!!!  Why would a competitor start a competition to win  spot when the process is freaking Corrupt.  Sorry to rain on your college parade folks but this is bad stuff.  I know because I lived it and so did my dd.  Its about a dream to make da list and play for her local high school too.  She should  be afforded the opportunity to both.  What is so wrong about that?  Bring it on boys.  I know DA BIG CLUB IS ON HERE.  Talk to me guys???????


----------



## myself

Ellejustus said:


> Mock me all you want DADADS.  This is all about college for you and I get it.  Equal access brah!!!  Why would a competitor start a competition to win  spot when the process is freaking Corrupt.  Sorry to rain on your college parade folks but this is bad stuff.  I know because I lived it and so did my dd.  Its about a dream to make da list and play for her local high school too.  She should  be afforded the opportunity to both.  What is so wrong about that?  Bring it on boys.  I know DA BIG CLUB IS ON HERE.  Talk to me guys???????


What is your obsession with DA?


----------



## Messi>CR7

Ellejustus said:


> Mock me all you want DADADS.  This is all about college for you and I get it.  Equal access brah!!!  Why would a competitor start a competition to win  spot when the process is freaking Corrupt.  Sorry to rain on your college parade folks but this is bad stuff.  I know because I lived it and so did my dd.  Its about a dream to make da list and play for her local high school too.  She should  be afforded the opportunity to both.  What is so wrong about that?  Bring it on boys.  I know DA BIG CLUB IS ON HERE.  Talk to me guys???????


----------



## Ellejustus

Were not trying to play in the DA.  We will never play in the FREE DA league that makes 12 and 13 year olds world cup players for FREE!!!!.  I don't think we would be welcomed even if we tried.  However, I still would like her to be scouted like other DA Private school educated kids with smart dads with money.  Please US SOCCER FEDERATION  and BIG CLUB have some sort program for the other 1/3 of the country and some us other folks in da other leagues.  Please share the process with us so we can prepare to like all the other future pro players at the DA.  My dd has a goal.  MAPs dd had goals and has pretty achieved them all up to this point.  My dd wants to make da list and play on da BIG SQUAD someday.  She's asking for a little guidance as she prepares for HS. I was told by higher up at BIG CLUB that it was a "pipe dream" and to only foucs on the deal at college.  But my dd wants to make da list.  I saw BIG CLUB advertisng at BIG CLUB tourney and said something about "following your dreams" and it made me think about what higher up dad said to me.  I'm confused with the messaging from BIG CLUB and US SOCCER FEDERATION.  please help me.  Someone, anyone please.  TY


----------



## LASTMAN14

Ellejustus said:


> Mock me all you want DADADS.  This is all about college for you and I get it.  Equal access brah!!!  Why would a competitor start a competition to win  spot when the process is freaking Corrupt.  Sorry to rain on your college parade folks but this is bad stuff.  I know because I lived it and so did my dd.  Its about a dream to make da list and play for her local high school too.  She should  be afforded the opportunity to both.  What is so wrong about that?  Bring it on boys.  I know DA BIG CLUB IS ON HERE.  Talk to me guys???????


----------



## Ellejustus

myself said:


> What is your obsession with DA?


Dirty, impatient, disregard for our girls and much more.  I will not promote this Toxic soccer anymore.  Get your degrees fast folks.  $$$ is draing quickly


----------



## Soccer43

You are a big drama queen, looking for a lot of attention and it is getting boring.  I hope you aren't as whiny in real life.


----------



## wc_baller

Stepped away from this thread a few days ago, jump back in today, and see 0ver ten drama-filled pages of the same old stuff ad-nauseum. This shit is crazy. Haha.


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccer43 said:


> You are a big drama queen, looking for a lot of attention and it is getting boring.  I hope you aren't as whiny in real life.


Sitting at beach.  Waves are awesome, yellow flag.  Surfed with da boy b4 he goes to little unicorn u. So proud of him, really.  Keep reading or go away.  This is my time now.


----------



## Justafan

Ellejustus said:


> Sitting at beach.  Waves are awesome, yellow flag.  Surfed with da boy b4 he goes to little unicorn u. So proud of him, really.  Keep reading or go away.  This is my time now.


Now that’s the attitude EJ, keep it up.


----------



## MWN

dk_b said:


> ...But you recount a part of the history I have never heard before.  I believe you but am wondering if there was any reporting on this at the time it was occurring?  I ask b/c USSF seems committed to GDA and to undermining ECNL (hey, market forces are what they are) in a way that seems to vary from what I'd expect if litigation avoidance was the driving force.  Again, I believe what you wrote but am interested in a bit more color.  Thanks in advance.


What I communicated was an insiders perspective.  I personally have a unique perspective because of my job and have had the opportunity to sit down with many involved at the higher levels of youth soccer over beers/scotch/wine/more beer and ruminate on the state and direction.  That said, its easy to follow the thread by looking at statements of US Soccer after the players filed their EEOC claim in 2016.

See: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/uswnt-wage-discriminatory-suit-us-soccer_n_56fd33c3e4b0a06d5804ecac?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJeFmN5AIJFolRah5EGp09FSfzwROpRoeN_M1wmFZhn6qnli2kI5D7i5zrM90i0QKKfr8IBPqV6e8b7T0TXRx9VcsB4nNH-2z0WsSvwkp2uLhkj9URGVtcYPO8lQmaDN5dbkz5MY6YWbNOzwMMoVBkFh9gbFCrRL1QcbtVwRHQSM

US Soccer's response to the EEOC complaint, which had been previously threatened was:





But, to fully appreciate the origin of the claim you need to look at what was happening in 2014 and 2015 and the disparity allegations.

US Soccer's response was the formation of the girls DA to take that chip away.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Ellejustus said:


> Sitting at beach.  Waves are awesome, yellow flag.  Surfed with da boy b4 he goes to little unicorn u. So proud of him, really.  Keep reading or go away.  This is my time now.


You were shut down. Hmmm.


----------



## Fact

Gosh I leave the country for a few days only to come back to this circular nonsense.  You should give a shout out to your supplier because whatever he gave you, you sure got your moneys worth.

EJ if you put half as much effort into a paying job as you do this thread, you could pay for private school for your dd and this thread would be a nonissue.

I know that others have told you to stop this nonsense and you think you are a martyr, but all you are doing is hurting your dd.  It looks like several posters know your ID and I bet a few of them have shared this with their kids.  Eventually it will get back to your dd and be embarrassing, especially the period stuff a few pages back.

If you are truly intent on getting answers as to why wealthy kids get DA and HS, contact US Soccer, CIF, the ACLU or an investigative reporter and name names. Given the recent college scandals I am sure that you can find someone interested in the story.   

I don’t doubt you that wealthy private school kids are abusing the system to play high school.  I just looked up a few teams and cross referenced MaxPreps. It is pretty easy to identify the abuse, especially when you see the City the kiddos list on the DA site as their home towns.

I am one person that hates abuse and lying, would love to have a level playing field for all, and help those in need through no fault of their own.  But unfortunately life is not fair and at some point we have to pony up and find a solution or suck it up. Good luck to you and your dd.  I know that she will be successful in any thing she sets her mind too, after all she has had to live with you for her entire life.


----------



## dk_b

MWN said:


> What I communicated was an insiders perspective.  I personally have a unique perspective because of my job and have had the opportunity to sit down with many involved at the higher levels of youth soccer over beers/scotch/wine/more beer and ruminate on the state and direction.  That said, its easy to follow the thread by looking at statements of US Soccer after the players filed their EEOC claim in 2016.
> 
> See: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/uswnt-wage-discriminatory-suit-us-soccer_n_56fd33c3e4b0a06d5804ecac?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJeFmN5AIJFolRah5EGp09FSfzwROpRoeN_M1wmFZhn6qnli2kI5D7i5zrM90i0QKKfr8IBPqV6e8b7T0TXRx9VcsB4nNH-2z0WsSvwkp2uLhkj9URGVtcYPO8lQmaDN5dbkz5MY6YWbNOzwMMoVBkFh9gbFCrRL1QcbtVwRHQSM
> 
> US Soccer's response to the EEOC complaint, which had been previously threatened was:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, to fully appreciate the origin of the claim you need to look at what was happening in 2014 and 2015 and the disparity allegations.
> 
> US Soccer's response was the formation of the girls DA to take that chip away.


I believe you - and I believe your inside information may tell the story. But I don’t see the thread in the HuffPo article or the 3/31/16 statement from US Soccer. I will what I can find from those other years (I just don’t see the youth soccer connection other than a passing reference)


----------



## beachbum

Ellejustus said:


> Were not trying to play in the DA.  We will never play in the FREE DA league that makes 12 and 13 year olds world cup players for FREE!!!!.  I don't think we would be welcomed even if we tried.  However, I still would like her to be scouted like other DA Private school educated kids with smart dads with money.  Please US SOCCER FEDERATION  and BIG CLUB have some sort program for the other 1/3 of the country and some us other folks in da other leagues.  Please share the process with us so we can prepare to like all the other future pro players at the DA.  My dd has a goal.  MAPs dd had goals and has pretty achieved them all up to this point.  My dd wants to make da list and play on da BIG SQUAD someday.  She's asking for a little guidance as she prepares for HS. I was told by higher up at BIG CLUB that it was a "pipe dream" and to only foucs on the deal at college.  But my dd wants to make da list.  I saw BIG CLUB advertisng at BIG CLUB tourney and said something about "following your dreams" and it made me think about what higher up dad said to me.  I'm confused with the messaging from BIG CLUB and US SOCCER FEDERATION.  please help me.  Someone, anyone please.  TY


I feel like I'm talking to my teenagers.  You have been told you just don't seem to want to listen.  If not DA then ECNL if not ECNL then ODP,  they do scout areas not in DA just not as heavily because there is a cost and concentration of players.  The DA is the best path because they have Technical directors at almost every game and the US national scouts heavily attend showcases and championships.  There were 7 at one of our championship games in June.  ECNL national events are probably the second most attended events by US soccer scouts, then probably big showcases (Surf Cup, PDA, Jeferson Cup etc) and ODP.  Many of the US scouts are college coaches in case you didn't know. BTW if she doesn't get noticed now because she's not in the right place(because you don't seem to want to play the required game) or she is currently not there as a player, they do scout college. All but two on the US world cup team played in college, plus many others from various countries played in US colleges. Those players move on and play in the pros. So it is kind of a minor league system between college and the NWSL.  Listen or don't, I'm out of this mind numbing thread, good luck to your DD.  Oh and BTW it is a pipe dream for most including the DA girls to make the full national team, at most 2 or 3 girls from an age group will ever make the full national team and even if they are all pulled from DA teams (about 1250 girls per age group) it less than a .25% chance.


----------



## espola

espola said:


> There are much nicer campuses in the UC system than UCLA.


Their soccer stadium is not even the best in So Cal.  Pepperdine, Fullerton, UC Irvine and even D2 Dominguez Hills have better stadiums and/or settings.  They're about even with Northridge or LMU.


----------



## vegasguy

Look at pictures of GCU's stadium (not the same as a some of the Cali schools) it is pretty cool.  University of Denver which is on par with a UC School if not better has another killer stadium but no beach.   Find the compromise.  LMU has an amazing campus and the grass on their field.....


----------



## MWN

dk_b said:


> I believe you - and I believe your inside information may tell the story. But I don’t see the thread in the HuffPo article or the 3/31/16 statement from US Soccer. I will what I can find from those other years (I just don’t see the youth soccer connection other than a passing reference)


If you look at US Soccer's statement in response to the EEOC allegations/claim filed against it in 2016, US Soccer pointed to the "new" Girls Academy program as part of their public response at every opportunity. 

I looked for a few articles to support the point, but nobody was writing anything about the real reason for the Girls DA.

This article from 2016 sums up the confusion those in youth soccer had at the time:
https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/sports/launch-of-us-soccer-girls-development-academy-raises-concerns-for-countys-elite-players/ 

Why? There really was only 1 answer why.  US Soccer was embattled after the 2015 WC win and was being attacked at every instance (women playing on artificial turf, women not be paid as much, not having the same quality of training facilities, etc.)


----------



## dk_b

I see that in the release - it is not really an EEOC response, just a press release and it does make reference to the GDA (and I remember the US Soccer road shows at the regional NTCs around that time) but I don't see the link between litigation/a formal EEOC complaint and the reluctant establishment of GDA.  I will look at this other link after a work call.

(BTW: sometimes I read blanket statements and I have immediate doubt.  I actually believe what you are saying but I think that is because of your tone (just seems credible) and your note about having the knowledge of an insider.  I don't see the outside sources to back that up but I still think what you are writing seems logical and possibly true)


----------



## LMULions

vegasguy said:


> Look at pictures of GCU's stadium (not the same as a some of the Cali schools) it is pretty cool.  University of Denver which is on par with a UC School if not better has another killer stadium but no beach.   Find the compromise.  LMU has an amazing campus and the grass on their field.....


Agreed - amazing campus, wonderful environment!        And a sport (other than Gonzaga basketball) that the smaller schools of the West Coast Conference can be competitive in against the Goliath's.


And note to EJ:  have faith, keep working, she'll find her niche.  Of all the things in the world that us less financially established have to worry about, the opportunity to play DA and HS soccer consecutively should rank pretty low.


----------



## MWN

beachbum said:


> I thought the same thing until i looked up their 990 and they received a grant for just over $1,500,000 in 2017.


This would be a surprise, actually somewhat shocking.  Check the website:
https://www.ussoccer.com/governance/financial-information

So I looked up the 2018 990 (which is for the tax year 2017).  Government Grants (contributions) are located in the Statement of Revenue (Page 9) - Part VIII - Section 1e.  The 2017 - 990 is $0.0 for grants. 

Maybe it was the 2017 990 for tax year 2016?  Looked it up.  $0.0.
2015?  $0.0.
2014? $0.0.

Help me understand what you are looking at that shows the Federation receives government funding ... in excess of the benefit of its 501(c)(3) tax exempt status.


----------



## dk_b

Would be interesting to see if a creative attorney could make the argument that as the national body for the sport - and USSF is - it has a quasi governmental role and thus is subject to the same scrutiny as if it received direct response investment. After all, there is great value in this status - it would be different if, say, the USOC looked to another body for choosing the Olympic team.


----------



## MWN

That attorney would start at the Amateur Sports Act of 1978.  What would be the purpose of trying to label it a quasi governmental entity/role?  I can see one negative and that would be taking power out of the hands of its members.  I'll note that the Federation is still subject to the rules relating to equal employment, anti-discrimination, etc.  As a 501(c)(3) its prohibited from political endorsements and other acts.


----------



## dk_b

MWN said:


> That attorney would start at the Amateur Sports Act of 1978.  What would be the purpose of trying to label it a quasi governmental entity/role?  I can see one negative and that would be taking power out of the hands of its members.  I'll note that the Federation is still subject to the rules relating to equal employment, anti-discrimination, etc.  As a 501(c)(3) its prohibited from political endorsements and other acts.


I'm not saying there SHOULD be any litigation but when folks look to pin some exposure on USSF b/c it has accepted $ when it appears that it has not, my point is that taking money may not be necessary to require scrutiny the way a private college or other non-profit might have to bear.


----------



## Lambchop

MWN said:


> I hate to dredge this up, but in 2017 the NCAA Research department did a study of early recruiting (http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIRes_DISAACEarlyRecruitingSurvey_(Oct2017)_FINAL_20171013.pdf)
> 
> Here are the results regarding verbal offers for women's sports.  Only 3% of athletes at the 9th grade age or younger were given verbal commitment's for a scholarship.  29% where in 10th grade, 55% were in 11th grade and 9% were 12 graders.
> 
> This is not a problem that some may perceive it is.
> A


Are the stats for D1 schools or did they include D2 schools?


----------



## Justus

I got back on folks.  Scary email from big brother.  You can't make this stuff up unless you lived it. Anyway, Dom I promise to follow da rules.  It's important as adults that *all rules* are followed and I didn't do that and for that I am truly, truly sorry. I would ask for second chance from the group?  I realized today that we all come from different places and each girl might have a different reason their playing.  I honestly was naïve that college was what everyone wants for the most part.  I'm so sorry.  Were here for a different reason than college.  Can we all forgive each other?  Some of you have not experienced what we have so you can't speak on the experience.  MAP is from CSL and even the ECNL dads the days were different.  I'm just a dad looking for some answers to questions my dd and I have.  Please don't band me.  I will only discuss on this Topic.  Sorry kicker for getting a little competitive, it runs in the blood.  Anyway, Elle is for her and Justus is for him.  Were the FEARSOME FOURSOME.  11:11.  Please be kind to my dd.  Hate me all you want.  Perception is not reality.


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## Justus

beachbum said:


> I feel like I'm talking to my teenagers.  You have been told you just don't seem to want to listen.  If not DA then ECNL if not ECNL then ODP,  they do scout areas not in DA just not as heavily because there is a cost and concentration of players.  The DA is the best path because they have Technical directors at almost every game and the US national scouts heavily attend showcases and championships.  There were 7 at one of our championship games in June.  ECNL national events are probably the second most attended events by US soccer scouts, then probably big showcases (Surf Cup, PDA, Jeferson Cup etc) and ODP.  Many of the US scouts are college coaches in case you didn't know. BTW if she doesn't get noticed now because she's not in the right place(because you don't seem to want to play the required game) or she is currently not there as a player, they do scout college. All but two on the US world cup team played in college, plus many others from various countries played in US colleges. Those players move on and play in the pros. So it is kind of a minor league system between college and the NWSL.  Listen or don't, I'm out of this mind numbing thread, good luck to your DD.  Oh and BTW it is a pipe dream for most including the DA girls to make the full national team, at most 2 or 3 girls from an age group will ever make the full national team and even if they are all pulled from DA teams (about 1250 girls per age group) it less than a .25% chance.


"America the beautiful and home of the free where DREAMS are made"  Always remember that a dream becomes a reality if you work hard at it.  My dd dream is to be on the National Team.  Make fun all you want.  The first question that should be asked of any girl entering a competition to be on THE LIST should say, "To play for the National Team."  Right now 99% say, College degree.  I see that I'm in the minority on the forum.  Remember, this was not a "pipe dream" for Mallory, Morgan, Megan and the rest.  Anyway as time goes by the story will come clearer for all.  TY


----------



## LASTMAN14

Justus said:


> I got back on folks.  Scary email from big brother.  You can't make this stuff up unless you lived it. Anyway, Dom I promise to follow da rules.  It's important as adults that *all rules* are followed and I didn't do that and for that I am truly, truly sorry. I would ask for second chance from the group?  I realized today that we all come from different places and each girl might have a different reason their playing.  I honestly was naïve that college was what everyone wants for the most part.  I'm so sorry.  Were here for a different reason than college.  Can we all forgive each other?  Some of you have not experienced what we have so you can't speak on the experience.  MAP is from CSL and even the ECNL dads the days were different.  I'm just a dad looking for some answers to questions my dd and I have.  Please don't band me.  I will only discuss on this Topic.  Sorry kicker for getting a little competitive, it runs in the blood.  Anyway, Elle is for her and Justus is for him.  Were the FEARSOME FOURSOME.  11:11.  Please be kind to my dd.  Hate me all you want.  Perception is not reality.


Don't hate you. We share mutual friends. But your posts and threads were manic. Very TMZ gone tilt. The answers should come from your experiences. The last time Dominic took posts or threads down it was over the Anaheim Surf scandal and Surf (SD) was involved, as well as Cal South. You did it all by yourself. That's impressive.


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## Justus

LASTMAN14 said:


> Don't hate you. We share mutual friends. But your posts and threads were manic. Very TMZ gone tilt. The answers should come from your experiences. The last time Dominic took posts or threads down it was over the Anaheim Surf scandal and Surf (SD) was involved, as well as Cal South. You did it all by yourself. That's impressive.


I'm just a dad bro.  Just looing for some answers.  I did break the rules by writing dumb ads that just made me laugh.  I'm the one guy who can ask because "WE DON'T CARE ABOUT THE COLLEGE DEAL and were not afraid to ask a few questions to a few folks.  I'm not AFRIAD of hurting my dd chances because my dd is not sure college is for her.  If it is no soccer in college she can still go folks, don't panic everyone.  It's ok no degree in college for some right?  Google Mike Rowe about college.  SHE LOVES PLAYING THE GAME and she also likes to play volleyball GAMES and TRACK GAMES, PLAY PLAY PLAY.  That is hard work too but it's not 10 months out of the year PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.  I'm doing this to help you all see that not all girls want to be fulltime soccer players at 12.  People, let them be little girls a little. I went to GREAT PARK last night and spoke to 5 DA Dads of boys of 17 years old.  All of them with confidence said, the pros is why were here.  Talked to DA Dads of girls of 13 year olds and so far 99% reason is college.  Not good!!!!


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## Justus

Competition is what makes this country go.  Good old fashion competition on da field!!!.


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## Soccer43

All of our daughters have interest in playing for the National Team - and all of our DD's LOVE PLAYING THE GAME  - if you don't think that you are naive.  Most players know the NT isn't realistic and so just focus on college as that may be a more realistic goal.  You seem to think your situation is unique or more traumatic than anyone else's.  You don't know what others have gone through on this journey -  I just choose not to share the horror stories that my DD has gone through and she is one of the top players in her age also.


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## LASTMAN14

Justus said:


> I'm just a dad bro.  Just looing for some answers.  I did break the rules by writing dumb ads that just made me laugh.  I'm the one guy who can ask because "WE DON'T CARE ABOUT THE COLLEGE DEAL and were not afraid to ask a few questions to a few folks.  I'm not AFRIAD of hurting my dd chances because my dd is not sure college is for her.  If it is no soccer in college she can still go folks, don't panic everyone.  It's ok no degree in college for some right?  Google Mike Rowe about college.  SHE LOVES PLAYING THE GAME and she also likes to play volleyball GAMES and TRACK GAMES, PLAY PLAY PLAY.  That is hard work too but it's not 10 months out of the year PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.  I'm doing this to help you all see that not all girls want to be fulltime soccer players at 12.  People, let them be little girls a little. I went to GREAT PARK last night and spoke to 5 DA Dads of boys of 17 years old.  All of them with confidence said, the pros is why were here.  Talked to DA Dads of girls of 13 year olds and so far 99% reason is college.  Not good!!!!


Your still kinda manic. Take a day to think about all that has happened and use that to guide you.


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## Soccer43

LASTMAN14 said:


> Your still kinda manic. Take a day to think about all that has happened and use that to guide you.


I agree - Justy - you need to take a break from this forum and regroup.


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## Justus

TY TY for all advice.  I'm going to take it and chill the rest of the night.  I have book in my head .  Never had this happen to me before, ever I promise.  I'm not a very good writer because I'm emotional sometimes and all my teachers got pissed at me and red marks all over my paper work.........SLOW DOWN!!!!!.  Well, it got hard at school and liked the waves so I took the GED to get out early.  Big regret in my life as I look back.  I hated school!!!!  Sorry, just being honest.  I loved kickball, volleyball, soccer, basketball, baseball, water pole, tennis, badmitten and all things PE. So I think I can help dd out with better choice than I made since my father had parkinsins desease and was 60 when I was 14 and had more important things to deal with.  I told dd must graduate HS and she's on board.  I did end up going through JC and actually got real good at hoops and played a little NAIA ball so I did hit da books later like the MAPs of the world.  MAP is what we try to become.  He's living his DREAM, NOT MINE OR MY KIDS BUT HIS AND HIS DD AND MOM AND ONE MORE LIKE ME and for that I am so happy for da family.  Really I am MAP.  Props brah and you seem like a great dad I wish I had.  You see folks, not all have the best of best.  Sorry for long tail sentences too is that is bugging some of you.  Good night you all and we can pick this up tmrw if you all like.  I'm getting some weird inbox messages that is frankly scary.  I tried to take screen shot but got blocked so quick I thought someone was in my office.  Spooky stuff.  Kinda a little heads up for da war against the little guy.  I'm Scottish I think because I was adopted.  William Wallace is great hero of mine as is MLK, Mother Terresa, Saint Frances.  When I hear the bagpipes play and Scottish music I get FIRED UP!!!!  "Give me back my freedom"


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## Justus

Soccer43 said:


> All of our daughters have interest in playing for the National Team - and all of our DD's LOVE PLAYING THE GAME  - if you don't think that you are naive.  Most players know the NT isn't realistic and so just focus on college as that may be a more realistic goal.  You seem to think your situation is unique or more traumatic than anyone else's.  You don't know what others have gone through on this journey -  I just choose not to share the horror stories that my DD has gone through and she is one of the top players in her age also.


I'm so happy for you.  I don't want to share but I'm looking for EQUAL OPPORTUNITY.  The first step is to announce your goal to everyone.  Goal can't be college to find the best of the best.  It won't work.  Don't look for best soccer player/Student to be best.  Must be Soccer only and if you have some brains great.  All da best are going to skip anyways and go pro.  We ant the chance too!  I have to stop to follow the advice now.  No more posts because I might get tempted to respond.  Good night


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## LASTMAN14

Justus said:


> TY TY for all advice.  I'm going to take it and chill the rest of the night.  I have book in my head .  Never had this happen to me before, ever I promise.  I'm not a very good writer because I'm emotional sometimes and all my teachers got pissed at me and red marks all over my paper work.........SLOW DOWN!!!!!.  Well, it got hard at school and liked the waves so I took the GED to get out early.  Big regret in my life as I look back.  I hated school!!!!  Sorry, just being honest.  I loved kickball, volleyball, soccer, basketball, baseball, water pole, tennis, badmitten and all things PE. So I think I can help dd out with better choice than I made since my father had parkinsins desease and was 60 when I was 14 and had more important things to deal with.  I told dd must graduate HS and she's on board.  I did end up going through JC and actually got real good at hoops and played a little NAIA ball so I did hit da books later like the MAPs of the world.  MAP is what we try to become.  He's living his DREAM, NOT MINE OR MY KIDS BUT HIS AND HIS DD AND MOM AND ONE MORE LIKE ME and for that I am so happy for da family.  Really I am MAP.  Props brah and you seem like a great dad I wish I had.  You see folks, not all have the best of best.  Sorry for long tail sentences too is that is bugging some of you.  Good night you all and we can pick this up tmrw if you all like.  I'm getting some weird inbox messages that is frankly scary.  I tried to take screen shot but got blocked so quick I thought someone was in my office.  Spooky stuff.  Kinda a little heads up for da war against the little guy.  I'm Scottish I think because I was adopted.  William Wallace is great hero of mine as is MLK, Mother Terresa, Saint Frances.  When I hear the bagpipes play and Scottish music I get FIRED UP!!!!  "Give me back my freedom"


What, I have no idea what this post was about?


----------



## Justus

I'm back, I can't do it.  People want to know *THE TRUTH!!!!*  You guys just don't get it.  *PERCEPTION* is wrong and hopefully this dad won't be hated by all the dads and moms who want *DEGREES ONLY FOR DEAR DAUGHTER!!!!!!*  My dd still wants a chance at *THE LIST.  VERY IMPORTANT LIST FORALL OF YOU SO YOU CAN GO TO BIG U.* My DD is competing for THE LIST.  She wants an *EQUAL OPPORTUNITY* to make *THE LIST* so she can train with other top players her age and get a shot on *THE NATIONAL TEAM SOMEDAY IN THE FUTURE* but she can't now because the *US SOCCER FEDERATION* won't let her because she* plays HS Soccer.* *VERY COVETED PRIZE, YOU THINK????????*?.  All you educated folks think I'm off my rocker, drinking, damaging my dd reputation and so on "Bro, take a breather.  "Are you ok?"  "Dude, stop man".  "Seriously bro, are you on something?   *BIG STUFF FOLKS.*  I've been training for this and I had no idea why life was throwing curve balls my way.  *BTW, Threats to my inbox is not cool.* *I will take threats to the FBI so please stop for your sake.* *It's time to turn on the LIGHTS AND TAKE A LOOK UNDER DA HOOD. * I have a few questions and so does my dd*.  NO DA PARTICIPATION = NO NAME ON LIST FROM NON DA SOCCER PLAYERS? Why? IS THIS FAIR FOR ALL THE OTHER NON DA CLUBS AROUND THE GREAT PARK, NOCAL FOLKS, SAN DIEGO, OHIO, MICHIGAN AND ALL THOSE GIRLS THAT CHOSE HIGH SCHOOL SOCCER THIS YEAR AS FRESHMAN? 04s LIKE MY DD NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA GIRLS YOUTH SOCCER LEAGUE BECAUSE THEY PLAY HIGH SOCCER THAT I BELIEVE IS FUNDED AND SUPPORTTED BY THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS INSANE AND MINE BUGGLING THAT I CANT SLEEP!!!!   *
T*HE LIST                    IS                       GIVEN TO  EVERY   MAJOR COLLEGE                IN                AMERICA!    ALSO, ONLY CLUBS AND PLAYERS THAT SIGN WITH THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA GIRLS  SOCCER LEAGUE GET ON THE U16 LIST FOR 2019.  WHY?   VERY IMPORTANT LIST TO BE ON RIGHT?* * TOO BAD FOR THE CLUBS AND GIRLS WHO CHOSE HIGH SCHOOL SOCCER THIS YEAR LIKE IN MICHIGAN WHERE HIGH SCHOOL SOCCER IS LEGENDARY. ALSO GOOD FOR CLUBS FROM DA TO MARKET (BAIT) TO DUMB, UNEDUCATED DAD AND UNREALSTIC "PIPE DREAMER dd."  **Are you guys from the education side not getting this?  MANDATED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES of  America to find Americas top 04s in the country for U16 and U20 WORLD CUP*.  BIG DREAM FOR MY DD but kicked out of the UNITED STATES SOCCER FEDERATION DEVELOPMENTAL LEAGUE BECAUSE THE *WORLD IS WATCHING?????* Doe this equate to logic?  You're all in the wrong contest.  My dd got *$OLD* something completely different then the rest of yu.  Its obvious from all your posts.  Me and my kid got the old* "BAIT AND SWITCH*."  my DEAR DAUGHTER,  still believes SHE has a shot of that DREAM!!!!  You all were sold ECNL, CSL, SDDSL, AYSO and all the great soccer orgs out there. These clubs and coaches sold training in both soccer and academics.  *EVERYONE KNEW WANT THEY WERE BUYING*,* which was college degree and soccer *and that makes all the sense in the world now.  *Light went on moment.*  My daughter and I we were sold something else, you understand now??????  Another question directly from my dear daughter to the USDA.  Why NO HIGH SCHOOL SOCCER IF YOU WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE DA when PRAIVATE SCHOOL KIDS GOT WAIVER AT THE LAST MOMENT AND GOT IN?  Quick thought from pops:  I kind of find it odd that they get a WAIVER TO PLAY HS SOCCER BUT MY DD AND FEW OTHERS AROUND THE COUNTRY GET NO WAIVER BEACUSE THEY PLAY HS SOCCER.  EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, NO? I hope you don't kill the messenger. I know I believe in America and it's core values of EQUAL OPPORTUNITY.  You can't deny NON DA Players a chance TO PARTICIPAYE while holding the coveted spots as leverage and I believe unfair business practice towards club with less money. More to come, TRUST ME!!!


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## Justus

By the way we were sold in away that most would find hard to believe and frankly sad for my dd. We got bamboozled, you know played a little if you know what I mean with the TRAINING CENTER.  I'm easily trusting which I like about myself.  I don't know very much about club soccer and all.  I'm learning more each day how POWERFUL it is with INFLUNCE unlike anything I've witnessed.  Crazy stuff


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## Gokicksomegrass

Ok,  we have seen six of the seven stages of grief:
shock, denial, anger, bargaining, guilt, depression.
Shake hands with acceptance so you really help your dd in her time of need.


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## Justus

Gokicksomegrass said:


> Ok,  we have seen six of the seven stages of grief:
> shock, denial, anger, bargaining, guilt, depression.
> Shake hands with acceptance so you really help your dd in her time of need.


What is #7.  Yes, I have had a few of those stages.  I'm here to open up a dialogue with UNITED STATES GIRSL SOCCER FEDERATION so we can shake hands and move on.  But like I said before, my dd and other 04 girls around this country have a question why there not allowed to PARTICIPAT IN THE UNITES STATES OF AMERICA GIRLS DEVELOPMENT SOCCER LEAGUE. Is that ok?


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## OCsoccerdad7777

Justus is 100% correct total BS in favor of private schools only.

Sorry Justus but you can't win against the big bad wolf although I commend you for putting up the good fight.

Having said that maybe have your DD play HS fresh/soph and they DA the rest of her years when it gets more serious?


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## Justus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKMBzbx7rdw

I am ready!!!!  Let's do this...…...


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## Soccer43

You sound crazy and the golden rule in youth soccer is crazy troublesome parent=blacklisted player.   No matter how good your player is,  coaches want no part of the crazy you are sharing on a public forum.  You are not winning any battles here.   You are doing more damage to your DD's career by your rambling posts than by any conflict around the DA/HS debate.  Color coding and CAPS don't help.  Either you have a different purpose for your posts this week or are not too self aware.   Others have tried to warn you about this but seems you are not getting it


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## Kicknit22

You are doing more damage to your DD's career by your rambling posts than by any conflict around the DA/HS debate.  


Wait!  @Soccer43, are you inferring that people know who we are on here?


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## Justus

Soccer43 said:


> You sound crazy and the golden rule in youth soccer is crazy troublesome parent=blacklisted player.   No matter how good your player is,  coaches want no part of the crazy you are sharing on a public forum.  You are not winning any battles here.   You are doing more damage to your DD's career by your rambling posts than by any conflict around the DA/HS debate.  Color coding and CAPS don't help.  Either you have a different purpose for your posts this week or are not too self aware.   Others have tried to warn you about this but seems you are not getting it


It's "pipe dream" so she won't be coached by anyone from US SOCCER FEDERATION OF AMERICA GIRLS YOUTH DEVELOPMENAL LEAGUE ONLY FOR DA GIRLS AND GIRLS THAT GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOL!!!!  MY GIRL AND 1/3 OF THE COUNTRY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO *PARTICIPATE IN THE PROCESS* OF BEING *SCOUTED* BY ALL THE *US SCOUTS MANDATED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE USA* TO *FIND ALL THE TOP PLAYERS* IN THE USA WHO HAVE THE *DREAM, THE PHYSICAL ABILITY, DESRIE AND MENTAL TOUGHNESS* TO REPRESENT THE USA. *WORLD IS WATCHING!!!!*


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## Justus

BAIT (THE DREAM) THE SWITCH (COLLGE DEAL INSTEAD)


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## Justus

RJONESUSC thinks this is dumb.  Please RJ, share why so dumb?  Anyone from SC or Yale should not comment right now.  "pay to play" needs to end now for America sake!!!!!


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## LASTMAN14

Justus said:


> BAIT (THE DREAM) THE SWITCH (COLLGE DEAL INSTEAD)


If that’s your idea of a bait and switch I’m fine with it. Dominic may have to intervene again. Your not rational.


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## Justus

LASTMAN14 said:


> If that’s your idea of a bait and switch I’m fine with it. Dominic may have to intervene again. Your not rational.


It's ok because you didn't go through the sales process like I did with my dd.  Maybe "smoke & mirror?"


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## Soccerfan2

Justus here’s your truth. US Soccer isn’t going to read your forum posts and change their high school policy. Focus on what you do have control over. Your kid needs a Dad who can cope far more than she needs a national team spot. There will be a lot more important difficult conflicts in life to work through than this. Attachment is the root of suffering. Display some maturity and let it go.


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## Justus

Soccerfan2 said:


> Justus here’s your truth. US Soccer isn’t going to read your forum posts and change their high school policy. Focus on what you do have control over. Your kid needs a Dad who can cope far more than she needs a national team spot. There will be a lot more important difficult conflicts in life to work through than this. Attachment is the root of suffering. Display some maturity and let it go.


So far 90% of you think I should just put it to rest.  TY for your suggestions.  I have considered the advice and still think we need a discussion at the very least.  I just have a few questions.  I'm asking them on a public forum of soccer folks and most, not all think I should get mental help, quit, go away and just put it to rest and realize it's "pipe dream"


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## Justus

I love this 5 minute edit correction thing.  I wish I had this when I was young.  I had to type my papers on a type writer.  My battle has begone to bring to LIGHT the misdeeds of Girls Youth Soccer in Socal.  That's my big blast from the cannon. It's one dad and dd opionin based on experience.  Let me tell all of you, unless you experienced what we did please stop judging.  I'm seeking answers to the "smoke & mirror" were all getting pitched right here in SoCal by the epicenter of all things soccer.  This is scary stuff and I'm ready to take it on.  It will be for the best of all the *little girls* 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14 that need time to mature mentally and go through the process of life.  This is the movie "click" but with soccer instead of Adam S trying to climb the corporate latter.  All of you have basically told me and my dd that the dream is over, pack it up and focus on the studies now because that's where you belong.....right?  Be honest.  That't not how the FEARSOME FOURSOME ROLL.  So let's have the discussion and not hate the messenger and especially my dd.  EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL GIRLS REGARDLESS OF RACE, SOCIAL, PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS OR PUBLIC SCHOOL KIDS.  I loved my high school sports so much that it kept me going.  It's also one of the greatest decisions my dd has done.  One coach at her HS taught her a very valuable lesson that wouldn't have happened d if she wasn't there and to him I am very grateful.  Tough love is what we need and learn from mistakes you make as 12, 13, 14 , 15 year old girl.  I have to go to the beach now to chill and think more.  I love America, I love High School Sports and I love all of you believe it or not.  Sorry for fishing on here.  I needed to get the info I was looking for.  Peace out my fellow brother & sisters of this great country of ours.


----------



## espola

Justus said:


> I love this 5 minute edit correction thing.  I wish I had this when I was young.  I had to type my papers on a type writer.  My battle has begone to bring to LIGHT the misdeeds of Girls Youth Soccer in Socal.  That's my big blast from the cannon. It's one dad and dd opionin based on experience.  Let me tell all of you, unless you experienced what we did please stop judging.  I'm seeking answers to the "smoke & mirror" were all getting pitched right here in SoCal by the epicenter of all things soccer.  This is scary stuff and I'm ready to take it on.  It will be for the best of all the *little girls* 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14 that need time to mature mentally and go through the process of life.  This is the movie "click" but with soccer instead of Adam S trying to climb the corporate latter.  All of you have basically told me and my dd that the dream is over, pack it up and focus on the studies now because that's where you belong.....right?  Be honest.  That't not how the FEARSOME FOURSOME ROLL.  So let's have the discussion and not hate the messenger and especially my dd.  EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL GIRLS REGARDLESS OF RACE, SOCIAL, PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS OR PUBLIC SCHOOL KIDS.  I loved my high school sports so much that it kept me going.  It's also one of the greatest decisions my dd has done.  One coach at her HS taught her a very valuable lesson that wouldn't have happened d if she wasn't there and to him I am very grateful.  Tough love is what we need and learn from mistakes you make as 12, 13, 14 , 15 year old girl.  I have to go to the beach now to chill and think more.  I love America, I love High School Sports and I love all of you believe it or not.  Sorry for fishing on here.  I needed to get the info I was looking for.  Peace out my fellow brother & sisters of this great country of ours.


I appreciate the thought, but  you are about (at least) 20 years late.


----------



## Zen

Justus said:


> I love this 5 minute edit correction thing.  I wish I had this when I was young.  I had to type my papers on a type writer.  My battle has begone to bring to LIGHT the misdeeds of Girls Youth Soccer in Socal.  That's my big blast from the cannon. It's one dad and dd opionin based on experience.  Let me tell all of you, unless you experienced what we did please stop judging.  I'm seeking answers to the "smoke & mirror" were all getting pitched right here in SoCal by the epicenter of all things soccer.  This is scary stuff and I'm ready to take it on.  It will be for the best of all the *little girls* 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14 that need time to mature mentally and go through the process of life.  This is the movie "click" but with soccer instead of Adam S trying to climb the corporate latter.  All of you have basically told me and my dd that the dream is over, pack it up and focus on the studies now because that's where you belong.....right?  Be honest.  That't not how the FEARSOME FOURSOME ROLL.  So let's have the discussion and not hate the messenger and especially my dd.  EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL GIRLS REGARDLESS OF RACE, SOCIAL, PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS OR PUBLIC SCHOOL KIDS.  I loved my high school sports so much that it kept me going.  It's also one of the greatest decisions my dd has done.  One coach at her HS taught her a very valuable lesson that wouldn't have happened d if she wasn't there and to him I am very grateful.  Tough love is what we need and learn from mistakes you make as 12, 13, 14 , 15 year old girl.  I have to go to the beach now to chill and think more.  I love America, I love High School Sports and I love all of you believe it or not.  Sorry for fishing on here.  I needed to get the info I was looking for.  Peace out my fellow brother & sisters of this great country of ours.


I agree many girls were shafted and not given a fair shake for YNT based on league preference - our coach and DOC's daughter included (at what you consider a big club).  It happened to many worthy of consideration - even DOCs and middle-men.  It is devastating for those girls, unfair, and it sucks, all of that...but for the sake of you and your daughter - you have to move on.  The last 2-3 yrs have been bumpy.  The YNT decisions are what they are.  Fuel your energy into what you CAN control and in the future.   Most full NT players (with exception of 2) are influenced by performance IN college.  Consider college as a path to Rome, a means to an end that provides a plan B, C, and D...even if it is not the ultimate goal.  Maybe, just maybe college might turn out to be a good option for your daughter if you're open to consider it for what it can do for you.  For a baller, 3.0 is probably sufficient for many D1's...without hampering her social life.  She can play against YNT's at UCLA, etc...and have her opportunity to shine.  Walk-on for UCLA is still an option, especially for a stud that isn't asking for money, just wants an opportunity to shine against YNT girls.  (The thought of playing against these girls in college fuels my daughter to no end!)   If college is totally out, there is also the Horan path of going pro at 18.  There are viable paths for exceptional talent (even then luck is required!).  You're not going to change DA high school rules or current YNT list.  I feel for you, but time to let the wrongs go (I believe they happened).  Focus on creating options vs reducing them (even if unintentionally on this forum).


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## wc_baller

Kicknit22 said:


> You are doing more damage to your DD's career by your rambling posts than by any conflict around the DA/HS debate.
> 
> 
> Wait!  @Soccer43, are you inferring that people know who we are on here?


There was so much personal information in those 10 plus pages of rambling posts, I was easily able to figure out who his kid was. The soccer community is really a small community in terms of the big clubs and impact players, and word gets around quickly. I’m hoping for the kid’s sake that she doesn’t suffer negative consequences for the parent’s rantings.


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## LASTMAN14

wc_baller said:


> There was so much personal information in those 10 plus pages of rambling posts, I was easily able to figure out who his kid was. The sound occer community is really a small community in terms of the big clubs and impact players, and word gets around quickly. I’m hoping for the kid’s sake that she doesn’t suffer negative consequences for the parent’s rantings.


Totally agree on the info that was shared. It was why those threads were taken down. Though it does make you go hmmm.


----------



## Justus

Soccerfan2 said:


> Justus here’s your truth. US Soccer isn’t going to read your forum posts and change their high school policy. Focus on what you do have control over. Your kid needs a Dad who can cope far more than she needs a national team spot. There will be a lot more important difficult conflicts in life to work through than this. Attachment is the root of suffering. Display some maturity and let it go.


NEVER!!!!!


----------



## Justus

Google "Acacia Edwards Soccer"

Don't hate the messenger folks.  Think at 12, not 15.  *Different times in 2016-2017.*  We just have some questions how all this went down. WHO SELECTED *THE LIST*, COMMITTE OF SCOUTS? DO SOME CLUBS GET THEM WHILE OTHERS DONT?  LEAGUE REQUIREMENT?  DID A CLUB HOLD A PICK(S) AND THE DOC CAN CHOOSE OR COACH?  THIS A VERY COVETED/VALUED LIST IM FINDING OUT TOO.  WHERE WERE THE DA SCOUTS SCOUTING BEFORE FIRST U14 LIST ANNOUNCED SEPT 2017?   MY DD WAS ASKED TO COMPETE AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL WHEN SHE WAS 12 AND 13.  WE ALL KNOW A BATTLE STARTED WITH US SOCCER VS ECNL RIGHT AT THE SAME TIME FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.  WE LIVED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BATTLE OF THIS TOXIC WAR AND IM HERE TO END IT! MY DD WAS A VERY SOUGHT AFTER RECRRUIT AT THE TIME.  TRUST ME!!!  GUESS WHAT WE WERE SOLD?  MY DD IS STRONG AND IS AT THE BEACH SURFING SO ALL IS GOOD.  SHES NOT HAPPY ABOUT THE PROCESS IN 2017 EITHER.   Lastly, many of you have said all sorts of things but the biggest complaint I have is that its one "Big Pipe dream." unrealistic, impossible and the like.  If it's a "pipe dream," why is it sold to a 12 year old?  I'm going to the beach to chill some more.


----------



## Justus

Zen said:


> I agree many girls were shafted and not given a fair shake for YNT based on league preference - our coach and DOC's daughter included (at what you consider a big club).  It happened to many worthy of consideration - even DOCs and middle-men.  It is devastating for those girls, unfair, and it sucks, all of that...but for the sake of you and your daughter - you have to move on.  The last 2-3 yrs have been bumpy.  The YNT decisions are what they are.  Fuel your energy into what you CAN control and in the future.   Most full NT players (with exception of 2) are influenced by performance IN college.  Consider college as a path to Rome, a means to an end that provides a plan B, C, and D...even if it is not the ultimate goal.  Maybe, just maybe college might turn out to be a good option for your daughter if you're open to consider it for what it can do for you.  For a baller, 3.0 is probably sufficient for many D1's...without hampering her social life.  She can play against YNT's at UCLA, etc...and have her opportunity to shine.  Walk-on for UCLA is still an option, especially for a stud that isn't asking for money, just wants an opportunity to shine against YNT girls.  (The thought of playing against these girls in college fuels my daughter to no end!)   If college is totally out, there is also the Horan path of going pro at 18.  There are viable paths for exceptional talent (even then luck is required!).  You're not going to change DA high school rules or current YNT list.  I feel for you, but time to let the wrongs go (I believe they happened).  Focus on creating options vs reducing them (even if unintentionally on this forum).


TY Zen.  I think we all could agree at 13 and 14 years old it's very hard to find the best in America.  Why have a list that age in the first pace?  It's being used for all the wrong reasons and if it's NOT TRANSPARENT, then it's not good.  Competitor is asked to compete in a competition (THE LIST) then it's fair to ask how the list is picked?  What are you basing your decision on?  What methods are you using to select?


----------



## Justus

*None of you know the recruiting process my 12 & 13 year 0ld (at the time) went through except MY WIFE, MY DD, SON and ME plus the two BIG CLUBS AND THE DOCs THAT GOT ALL THE PERCEIVED BENEIFITS FOR GOING *$$$$$$ALL IN$$$$$$$  THE US SOCCER FEDERATION DEVELOPMENTAL LEAGUE WAS MANDATED *BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO FIND THE TOP 2004 SOCCER PLAYERS ALL OVER THE USA, INCLUDING GIRLS THAT *PLAY *AYSO, ECNL, SCDSL, CSL, HIGH SCHOOL SOCCER AND THE DA.*  SOME OF US COMPETITORS DON'T LIKE THE WAY YOU SELECTED AND TO TOP IT ALL OFF, YOU *DIDN'T ALLOW PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL GILRS ACCESS, ONLY PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS.  NOT FAIR, IS THAT EQUAL? *HOW WAS THE LIST PUT TOGETHER?????  WHO WAS THE *DECISION MAKER(s) in that process* for each girl?  I WANT TO SAY THIS RIGHT NOW: THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE GIRLS WHO GOT PICKED, ITS ABOUT THE ADULTS WHO WERE IN CHARGE FOR THE PICKS.  for my dd, her complaint is the first two u14 list of 24 and 48.  I know my dd had no chance for this years LIST because she was kicked out because of HS Soccer, all because she followed the rules while some adults found little loop holes for dd to do both Private School and the DA.  My only question about this years U16 list is why only DA Club kids on that list?  I'm sure there is a reason that all of Michigan and Ohio are left out.  My guess is they like HS Soccer too much and it wouldn't fly with the girls.  I guess maybe the state of Michigan has no 04s up for the challenge.  Once we get this all worked out we can all get back to the fields and battle it out on the fields only.  Get the top scouts to watch and then take the top of top and help them be the best.  Don't take a social joy to many and make it a punishment.  Please, I beg of you.   Q to all:  My dd is looking for girls on her HS team to win this year.  Is it ok if she recruits a DA player away for the league?  Will she get in trouble for that?


----------



## Sombitch

My goodness  - what on earth is going on here?  lol

I can't even begin to start reading through 44 pages of this. 

But I will say this - why not do both?  My DD stepped away from her DA club team her senior year to play her first and only year of HS soccer with her sister who was a freshman.  Great decision. Once HS was done, she trained with a local boys U18 ECNL team, and then the local WPSL team - honestly all of it helped her game  - and gave her a well needed mental break to recover and regroup.


----------



## Desert Hound

Justus said:


> *None of you know the recruiting process my 12 & 13 year 0ld (at the time) went through except MY WIFE, MY DD, SON and ME plus the two BIG CLUBS AND THE DOCs THAT GOT ALL THE PERCEIVED BENEIFITS FOR GOING *$$$$$$ALL IN$$$$$$$  THE US SOCCER FEDERATION DEVELOPMENTAL LEAGUE WAS MANDATED *BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO FIND THE TOP 2004 SOCCER PLAYERS ALL OVER THE USA, INCLUDING GIRLS THAT *PLAY *AYSO, ECNL, SCDSL, CSL, HIGH SCHOOL SOCCER AND THE DA.*  SOME OF US COMPETITORS DON'T LIKE THE WAY YOU SELECTED AND TO TOP IT ALL OFF, YOU *DIDN'T ALLOW PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL GILRS ACCESS, ONLY PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS.  NOT FAIR, IS THAT EQUAL? *HOW WAS THE LIST PUT TOGETHER?????  WHO WAS THE *DECISION MAKER(s) in that process* for each girl?  I WANT TO SAY THIS RIGHT NOW: THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE GIRLS WHO GOT PICKED, ITS ABOUT THE ADULTS WHO WERE IN CHARGE FOR THE PICKS.  for my dd, her complaint is the first two u14 list of 24 and 48.  I know my dd had no chance for this years LIST because she was kicked out because of HS Soccer, all because she followed the rules while some adults found little loop holes for dd to do both Private School and the DA.  My only question about this years U16 list is why only DA Club kids on that list?  I'm sure there is a reason that all of Michigan and Ohio are left out.  My guess is they like HS Soccer too much and it wouldn't fly with the girls.  I guess maybe the state of Michigan has no 04s up for the challenge.  Once we get this all worked out we can all get back to the fields and battle it out on the fields only.  Get the top scouts to watch and then take the top of top and help them be the best.  Don't take a social joy to many and make it a punishment.  Please, I beg of you.   Q to all:  My dd is looking for girls on her HS team to win this year.  Is it ok if she recruits a DA player away for the league?  Will she get in trouble for that?





Justus said:


> So far 90% of you think I should just put it to rest.  TY for your suggestions.  I have considered the advice and still think we need a discussion at the very least.  I just have a few questions.  I'm asking them on a public forum of soccer folks and most, not all think I should get mental help, quit, go away and just put it to rest and realize it's "pipe dream"


Your problem is summed up as follows.

You want your kid to play YNT and later full NT.

You know at this point your DD needs to go DA.

You and your DD want to play HS.

As it currently stands you are not willing to make the sacrifice (no HS) to get on the YNT.

You want the rules changed so you and your DD don't have to sacrifice something to pursue the dream.

Fact: As it stands DA is the path. They are trying to kill off or minimize what ECNL is.

While we can all agree that picking players US Soccer should look everywhere...the reality is they prefer DA.

You need to tell your DD that hey if your dream is YNT or NT then as the situation currently is you must give up HS. 

That is the current reality. And to be frank you and your DD know that. And yet apparently the dream of YNT and NT is apparently less important than HS.

You and your DD are not willing to make the push and sacrifice and what you 2 want is the rules to change so you 2 don't have to sacrifice what you want to do.

You can deal with what the reality is or you can go on for days doing what you are doing.


----------



## Justus

Desert Hound said:


> Your problem is summed up as follows.
> 
> You want your kid to play YNT and later full NT.
> 
> You know at this point your DD needs to go DA.
> 
> You and your DD want to play HS.
> 
> As it currently stands you are not willing to make the sacrifice (no HS) to get on the YNT.
> 
> You want the rules changed so you and your DD don't have to sacrifice something to pursue the dream.
> 
> Fact: As it stands DA is the path. They are trying to kill off or minimize what ECNL is.
> 
> While we can all agree that picking players US Soccer should look everywhere...the reality is they prefer DA.
> 
> You need to tell your DD that hey if your dream is YNT or NT then as the situation currently is you must give up HS.
> 
> That is the current reality. And to be frank you and your DD know that. And yet apparently the dream of YNT and NT is apparently less important than HS.
> 
> You and your DD are not willing to make the push and sacrifice and what you 2 want is the rules to change so you 2 don't have to sacrifice what you want to do.
> 
> You can deal with what the reality is or you can go on for days doing what you are doing.


Wow, great summary, TY


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> Wow, great summary, TY[/QU





Soccer43 said:


> You sound crazy and the* golden rule in youth soccer is crazy troublesome parent=blacklisted player.   No matter how good your player is,  coaches want no part of the crazy you are sharing on a public forum*.  You are not winning any battles here.   You are doing more damage to your DD's career by your rambling posts than by any conflict around the DA/HS debate.  Color coding and CAPS don't help.  Either you have a different purpose for your posts this week or are not too self aware.   Others have tried to warn you about this but seems you are not getting it


Blacklisted: *synonyms: boycott,* *ostracize*, *avoid, consider undesirable, *steer clear of, ignore
"*workers were blacklisted* *after being quoted in the newspaper or FORUM" or "Players were blacklisted after playing HS Soccer and for asking why they can't DO BOTH.  Thanks Sombitch!!! WHY NOT LET THEM DO BOTH?  WHY PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS WAIVER AND NOT PUBLIC SCHOOL KIDS?"  Has it occurred to any of you that my dd would have played DA if she could have gotten a waiver too?  Think about that folks...........just a kid wanting to do both.  Wow, wow, wow!!!!  I think I know why...…….Also, "Little club (deep roots in OC, big brand$$$$$$$$) working hard to stay in competitive business environment blacklisted for not "developing" it's talent the right way.  Only a recruiting mill of helping produce some of the most incredible woman to play the game in OC.   Squeeze the little guy who only is their to help the kids, not for $$$$$$ like others......Look at the attacks on me already.  Read them all.    *
synonyms: *boycott*, *ostracize*, *avoid,* *consider undesirable, steer clear of, ignore;*


----------



## Justus

It's not good either when DOC AT BIG CLUB SAY IF YOU LEAVE...……………….  I think I've heard that before.  That's puts all of us in a really horrible position as the customers, right?  Afraid to leave a club.  Do you think my dd has experienced being warned "this could be bad for recruiting before scare tactic a few time over the last 3 years??? *REMEBER, 2016-2017.  Not today.*


----------



## Justus

I have an idea maybe that might work for all of us as we sort this stuff out.  Lets have an all star game, "Cream wises to the top game" after all the teams finish playoffs.  Just one game.  DA U16 YNT vs Non DA Select Players 04' BLACK (sorry no play ups in this group).  Pick 18 players from both and go at it.  Two things will happen.  The DA U16 YNT will stay sharp before big matches and the other girls will get a chance to challenge the top girls and stay sharp as they pursue other sports and social activities.  This will also allow the *SCOUTS* to look at those players that are non DA so they keep an eye on them if one them is the next Mallory, Alex or Megan.  Now everyone is happy and feels at least "looked" at.  Selection *process* of the 18 from each group must be* transparent* for all to see.  Thoughts?  Ohio?  Michigan?


----------



## Sombitch

Justus said:


> I have an idea maybe that might work for all of us as we sort this stuff out.  Lets have an all star game, "Cream wises to the top game" after all the teams finish playoffs.  Just one game.  DA U16 YNT vs Non DA Select Players 04' BLACK (sorry no play ups in this group).  Pick 18 players from both and go at it.  Two things will happen.  The DA U16 YNT will stay sharp before big matches and the other girls will get a chance to challenge the top girls and stay sharp as they pursue other sports and social activities.  This will also allow the *SCOUTS* to look at those players that are non DA so they keep an eye on them if one them is the next Mallory, Alex or Megan.  Now everyone is happy and feels at least "looked" at.  Selection *process* of the 18 from each group must be* transparent* for all to see.  Thoughts?  Ohio?  Michigan?


This has already been done and the US team always wins easily over older girls..  

Typically where ever the USNT is training,.. at the end of camp they bring in an older group of very good girls from various teams to play this US team. The US always wins easily. That said girls sometimes are noticed from these games and then get called in as well


----------



## Justus

Kicker4Life said:


> Perfect....should we chose from the 90 Girls selected for the ECNL National ID Camp that was held in July?


No, start over with everything, clean slate   Let the US Scouts pick the 18 from each team.  DA U16 YNT vs All Non DA Members for whatever reason they can't commit to the commitment.  I'm sorry for knocking down the DA.  This can't be about DA vs ECNL.  We all should be able to have choices and not feel by "some coaches" pressured, intimated, threaten with being blacklisted and so on.  AYSO FOR ALL stands for something right?


----------



## Justus

Sombitch said:


> This has already been done and the US team always wins easily over older girls..
> 
> Typically where ever the USNT is training,.. at the end of camp they bring in an older group of very good girls from various teams to play this US team. The US always wins easily. That said girls sometimes are noticed from these games and then get called in as well


Old way bro


----------



## Justus

Landscape I mean.  It appears 1/3 of the country was not in the section process this time.  Did that happen before? I thought it was more ODP and then select NT in the old way?.  That would make sense to have THE CREAM.   Go regionally first to get regions best and then THE BEST OF THE BEST.  Not sure this happened this time.  Again, more interested in 2017 process U14.  Did they you even have that age group back in the day?????  Cali has 11 in current group of 24.  Is that normal?  I think its cool too we have so many.  How does Nocal look?  Lot's of Earthquakes. BTW,  all of those girls are deserving on those selections for all the hard work they put in


----------



## Canyon90

Justus said:


> Google "Acacia Edwards Soccer"
> 
> Don't hate the messenger folks.  Think at 12, not 15.  *Different times in 2016-2017.*  We just have some questions how all this went down. WHO SELECTED *THE LIST*, COMMITTE OF SCOUTS? DO SOME CLUBS GET THEM WHILE OTHERS DONT?  LEAGUE REQUIREMENT?  DID A CLUB HOLD A PICK(S) AND THE DOC CAN CHOOSE OR COACH?  THIS A VERY COVETED/VALUED LIST IM FINDING OUT TOO.  WHERE WERE THE DA SCOUTS SCOUTING BEFORE FIRST U14 LIST ANNOUNCED SEPT 2017?   MY DD WAS ASKED TO COMPETE AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL WHEN SHE WAS 12 AND 13.  WE ALL KNOW A BATTLE STARTED WITH US SOCCER VS ECNL RIGHT AT THE SAME TIME FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.  WE LIVED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BATTLE OF THIS TOXIC WAR AND IM HERE TO END IT! MY DD WAS A VERY SOUGHT AFTER RECRRUIT AT THE TIME.  TRUST ME!!!  GUESS WHAT WE WERE SOLD?  MY DD IS STRONG AND IS AT THE BEACH SURFING SO ALL IS GOOD.  SHES NOT HAPPY ABOUT THE PROCESS IN 2017 EITHER.   Lastly, many of you have said all sorts of things but the biggest complaint I have is that its one "Big Pipe dream." unrealistic, impossible and the like.  If it's a "pipe dream," why is it sold to a 12 year old?  I'm going to the beach to chill some more.


Did you really just put on this open “public” forum for everyone to Google your DD by her full name! A forum where you’re upsetting a lot of people and now they know your DD by name! You’re a real douche bag of a dad of the worst kind! The safety of your under age DD should be the focal point of your life concerns. Not ranting about “da list”!


----------



## MWN

@Canyon90,

I don't think he's upsetting people, in as much providing some entertainment.  We has a passionate father who wants his daughter to "have her cake and eat it too."  Many of us see this guy spiraling out of control using ALL CAPS different colored fonts and its kinda funny.  Most of us agree that the Girls DA should not restrict HS play, but allow it because 99.934% of those girls in the system won't actually make the YNT (it could be 99.943%).

What he and many other don't appreciate is that US Soccer formed the Girls DA 10 years after the Boys DA in response to litigation threats and "unequal treatment" of female soccer players.  If US Soccer adopted different rules for the girls DA it exposes itself to allegations of unequal treatment (once again, defeating one of the purposes of the Girls DA).  In addition, the Boys DA will get their shorts in a bunch and want the rules changed, but again (99.12%) of Boys DA players will never sniff the YNT.

Its not corruption as alleged, but practicalities of having a program designed to develop and identify elite athletes.  Is it ultimately necessary to eliminate HS play?  Yes, if the goal is to have a 10 month league season with 4 practices per week.  Because different HS regions play at different times of the year (Fall, Winter, Spring) it is also necessary to eliminate HS because we would have multiple regions just go dark for a few months waiting out HS or struggling to field a team during the season.  In California the North HS season is in the fall, in So Cal its in Winter and back east in Fall and Spring.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Is this thread still going?  You guys are really indulging somebody.  Arsenal to Legends to Surf to Blues all before 10th grade sounds like a significant amount of club hopping to me.

Temecula to Laguna Beach sounds like a little bump in the mortgage payment though.  Maybe that’s what this whole thread is actually about.  I really can’t tell anymore.  I had to put it on ignore.

You know what happens when you don’t feed something looking for attention?


----------



## MWN

MakeAPlay said:


> Is this thread still going?  You guys are really indulging somebody.  Arsenal to Legends to Surf to Blues all before 10th grade sounds like a significant amount of club hopping to me.
> 
> Temecula to Laguna Beach sounds like a little bump in the mortgage payment though.  Maybe that’s what this whole thread is actually about.  I really can’t tell anymore.  I had to put it on ignore.
> 
> You know what happens when you don’t feed something looking for attention?


Yesterday I bought some microwave popcorn, so I could sit in my hotel room on the other side of the country and just enjoy the show.  It doesn't matter if we don't feed him, because he is just going to start 5 threads, all with the same theme.  But, and to his credit, he doesn't personally attack others (like many on this board).  I like to think of this as fishing ... just when you think he understands and will give up a little bit and get reeled in, he thrashes around with the same vengeance as before forgetting everything you just told him about the how and why it works this way.  There has to be a way to get him to understand life isn't fair ... never was.


----------



## Justus

MAP good to see your back.  TY to those who have sent encouraging inbox messages and some are starting to share their stories as well   TY for the text messengers offering me and my dd support.   This is just getting started folks.  I had great sleep last night.   Some crazy dreams of 2016-2017 of insane recruiting times "popped" in all of sudden.  I woke up more calm today.  Peaceful, focused, resolute and most important, filled with Ganas to see this through.  So to Everyone, let's have a discussion.  Has it occurred to any of you customers (Parents who buy all this soccer in SoCal) they (THE BIG CLUBS WITH DOCS AND US SOCCER FEDERATION) never consulted with us, the customers?  Should they have?  OC and San Diego are where the BIG DECISIONS are made for the rest of the country.  They hold the power.  Who has the power right now?  Leverage over our dd and yes, you as a parent is not good for any of us?  First huge decision that caused the division were all in, is the age change?  Huge!!!!  Why not talk with us as well and see what we would have thought and what about all the girls?  Aren't we all allowed a voice in this PROCESS?  I'm going to start sharing our recruiting PROCESS so I'm being transparent to all.


----------



## Justus

MWN said:


> @Canyon90,
> 
> I don't think he's upsetting people, in as much providing some entertainment.  We has a passionate father who wants his daughter to "have her cake and eat it too."  Many of us see this guy spiraling out of control using ALL CAPS different colored fonts and its kinda funny.  Most of us agree that the Girls DA should not restrict HS play, but allow it because 99.934% of those girls in the system won't actually make the YNT (it could be 99.943%).
> 
> What he and many other don't appreciate is that US Soccer formed the Girls DA 10 years after the Boys DA in response to litigation threats and "unequal treatment" of female soccer players.  If US Soccer adopted different rules for the girls DA it exposes itself to allegations of unequal treatment (once again, defeating one of the purposes of the Girls DA).  In addition, the Boys DA will get their shorts in a bunch and want the rules changed, but again (99.12%) of Boys DA players will never sniff the YNT.
> 
> Its not corruption as alleged, but practicalities of having a program designed to develop and identify elite athletes.  Is it ultimately necessary to eliminate HS play?  Yes, if the goal is to have a 10 month league season with 4 practices per week.  Because different HS regions play at different times of the year (Fall, Winter, Spring) it is also necessary to eliminate HS because we would have multiple regions just go dark for a few months waiting out HS or struggling to field a team during the season.  In California the North HS season is in the fall, in So Cal its in Winter and back east in Fall and Spring.


Were ok with NO HS SOCCER FOR *ALL.*  NOT, NO HS SOCCER *BUT IF YOUR PRIVATE SCHOOL STUDENT YOU GET A WAIVER.* *IF THAT WAIVER IS FOR FIANANCIAL REASONS TO HELP LOW INCOME STUDENT HAVE ACCESS AND PLAY FOR HIGH SCHOOL, ALL GOOD
Q.  how many waivers were actually given out across the country this past season?  Who got them and why? (just thinking some files would be around with paper work explaining why?) How many in Socal?  MAP, what you do you think?  I don't think it's that many to be honest.  *


----------



## Justus

Canyon90 said:


> Did you really just put on this open “public” forum for everyone to Google your DD by her full name! A forum where you’re upsetting a lot of people and now they know your DD by name! *You’re a real douche bag of a dad of the worst kind! The safety of your under age DD should be the focal point of your life concerns. Not ranting about “da list”*!


----------



## Justus

Canyon90 said:


> Did you really just put on this open “public” forum for everyone to Google your DD by her full name! A forum where you’re upsetting a lot of people and now they know your DD by name! You’re a real douche bag of a dad of the worst kind! *The safety of your under age DD should be the focal point of your life concerns. Not ranting about “da list”*!


Exactly why I'm here 90.  You just have it all wrong and to be honest, backwards.  I think I'm the "wicked dad from the east until you watch the play Wizard.  I was so scared of the little monkeys and that witch from the east sacred me as a little boy.  When I saw Wizard it took away my fear.  When we have fear, we attack.  Think about that why we all have a discussion today and tomorrow, and the next.  This might be a safe place, seriously.  Maybe Dom can come up with rules of the discussions.  Just a thought.  Kicker, I love you dude and I'm sorry for being sarcastic at times on this forum.  I was fishing.  Please forgive me and from my dd to yours, all good brah!!!!


----------



## Desert Hound

Justus said:


> Blacklisted: *synonyms: boycott,* *ostracize*, *avoid, consider undesirable, *steer clear of, ignore
> "*workers were blacklisted* *after being quoted in the newspaper or FORUM" or "Players were blacklisted after playing HS Soccer and for asking why they can't DO BOTH.  Thanks Sombitch!!! WHY NOT LET THEM DO BOTH?  WHY PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS WAIVER AND NOT PUBLIC SCHOOL KIDS?"  Has it occurred to any of you that my dd would have played DA if she could have gotten a waiver too?  Think about that folks...........just a kid wanting to do both.  Wow, wow, wow!!!!  I think I know why...…….Also, "Little club (deep roots in OC, big brand$$$$$$$$) working hard to stay in competitive business environment blacklisted for not "developing" it's talent the right way.  Only a recruiting mill of helping produce some of the most incredible woman to play the game in OC.   Squeeze the little guy who only is their to help the kids, not for $$$$$$ like others......Look at the attacks on me already.  Read them all.    *
> synonyms: *boycott*, *ostracize*, *avoid,* *consider undesirable, steer clear of, ignore;*


You keep bringing up the HS waiver for some private school kids.

The rules state if they get the waiver and play, they are done for the rest of the year for DA. No more games or practice or showcases where scouts watch. To me that sounds like a disadvantage if a kid wanyto be seen and get an invite.

Go look at the rules. Done if you play HS for rest of yr


----------



## Justus

Desert Hound said:


> You keep bringing up the HS waiver for some private school kids.
> 
> The rules state if they get the waiver and play, they are done for the rest of the year for DA. No more games or practice or showcases where scouts watch. To me that sounds like a disadvantage if a kid wanyto be seen and get an invite.
> 
> Go look at the rules. Done if you play HS for rest of yr


I was told the waiver allows for DA Player to practice and play high school soccer (no da during HS) and then come back and finish DA?


----------



## Desert Hound

Justus said:


> I was told the waiver allows for DA Player to practice and play high school soccer (no da during HS) and then come back and finish DA?


Go read the rules.


----------



## Desert Hound

Page 11 from 2019-2020 rules regarding HS soccer. 

So I bet you would not want to get the same waiver for your DD if after HS soccer she was done for the yr right?

"Full-time players registered with a DA Club will not be allowed to re-enter the
program during the same season after participating in the high school season
with their current or a different DA Club."


----------



## Outlier

Rarely look at these boards these days but heard I should check out this thread.

Although we are not local to the team in question we have connections there. And although the rule states they cannot re-enter the program during the same season, these players returned and finished out the DA season right after high school season. One attends a school that does not provide any soccer scholarships ever and it was definitely not a needs based situation - not sure about the others. 

Not a fan of ranting - scares people away even when the message may be important. Also, these players are not responsible for this and should not be targeted - it's the club at fault. I don't plan to get involved in this - it's not our team or our community. But the truth is that the rules were markedly bent (or blatantly ignored) so I understand the resentment regarding the double standard. 

Logging off. Good luck to all and remember our DDs come first. Life is unfair, people cheat, we all have to learn to navigate.


----------



## Justus

Outlier said:


> Rarely look at these boards these days but heard I should check out this thread.
> 
> Although we are not local to the team in question we have connections there. And although the rule states they cannot re-enter the program during the same season, these players returned and finished out the DA season right after high school season. One attends a school that does not provide any soccer scholarships ever and it was definitely not a needs based situation - not sure about the others.
> 
> Not a fan of ranting - scares people away even when the message may be important. Also, these players are not responsible for this and should not be targeted - it's the club at fault. I don't plan to get involved in this - it's not our team or our community. But the truth is that the rules were markedly bent (or blatantly ignored) so I understand the resentment regarding the double standard.
> 
> Logging off. Good luck to all and remember our DDs come first. Life is unfair, people cheat, we all have to learn to navigate.


Keep the girls out of it.  Mine had to jump into this.  This is about the dads and all of u parents who want FAIRNESS TRANSPARENCY AND EQUAL ACCESS TO ALL THINGS SOCCER!!!!


----------



## dk_b

MWN said:


> @Canyon90,
> 
> I don't think he's upsetting people, in as much providing some entertainment.  We has a passionate father who wants his daughter to "have her cake and eat it too."  Many of us see this guy spiraling out of control using ALL CAPS different colored fonts and its kinda funny.  Most of us agree that the Girls DA should not restrict HS play, but allow it because 99.934% of those girls in the system won't actually make the YNT (it could be 99.943%).
> 
> What he and many other don't appreciate is that US Soccer formed the Girls DA 10 years after the Boys DA in response to litigation threats and "unequal treatment" of female soccer players.  If US Soccer adopted different rules for the girls DA it exposes itself to allegations of unequal treatment (once again, defeating one of the purposes of the Girls DA).  In addition, the Boys DA will get their shorts in a bunch and want the rules changed, but again (99.12%) of Boys DA players will never sniff the YNT.
> 
> Its not corruption as alleged, but practicalities of having a program designed to develop and identify elite athletes.  Is it ultimately necessary to eliminate HS play?  Yes, if the goal is to have a 10 month league season with 4 practices per week.  Because different HS regions play at different times of the year (Fall, Winter, Spring) it is also necessary to eliminate HS because we would have multiple regions just go dark for a few months waiting out HS or struggling to field a team during the season.  In California the North HS season is in the fall, in So Cal its in Winter and back east in Fall and Spring.


Small correction - the bulk of Norcal has been winter HS for many years (a small part of NCS moved recently and Saq San Joaquin moved last year or year before but CCS and (the vast majority of) NCS, the more dominant sections, have been winter for some time) (the only exceptions are very small private schools). 6 states have winter HS and the remaining are split about 50-50 between fall and spring. I’ve posted this link before:  https://www.nfhs.org/media/1018591/soccer-state_association_competition_dates_report_-2018-19.pdf

That’s why I would never expect US soccer to allow HS unless, as I’ve written, it decentralizes scheduling other than showcases and playoffs (like ECNL) or it adopts a special “California HS rule”, neither of which can happen. And to anticipate at least one person who might say that states should just shift to winter or we should shift - that does not take into account weather, field access, etc. 

(my kid’s urban HS could not move 3 girls and 3 boys teams to fall or spring as we have one field and football, lax, rugby (boys and girls), track and field ultimate and, believe it, field hockey. Our school has a lot of sports and that may be uncommon given our demo but what is common is the factor of limited field access)


----------



## SoccerFrenzy

Canyon90 said:


> Did you really just put on this open “public” forum for everyone to Google your DD by her full name! A forum where you’re upsetting a lot of people and now they know your DD by name! You’re a real douche bag of a dad of the worst kind! The safety of your under age DD should be the focal point of your life concerns. Not ranting about “da list”!


Soccer is a small community and he shouldn’t have put his daughters name out there. Sorry. Remember these coaches can get bitter and some take out on the kids for parents behavior. In life not everything is fair. Politics happen everywhere. I can agree that Allowing only PS players to play DA is a complete joke and hoping what Desert hound says is correct. Let your daughter decide what she wants to do. Best of Luck to her and your family


----------



## Justus

To all coaches and scouts in America and the world.  My dd is focusing on high school and her studies.  When she is a JR if she wants to, we will visit the schools on her list.  We don't want to be contacted.  And for the record, no college coach has ever spoke to my kid because she has never emailed one or talked on the phone with one.  College coaches are not the problem, TRUST ME!!!! She can go to the college still and not play soccer right?  She won't get blacklisted if she's is just a student?  Maybe she goes to design school instead or starts her own biz or goes pro?  My dd has so many options.


----------



## Soccer43

I doubt any of the clubs will be contacting you - just a thought on that


----------



## MWN

Justus said:


> To all coaches and scouts in America and the world.  My dd is focusing on high school and her studies.  When she is a JR if she wants to, we will visit the schools on her list.  We don't want to be contacted.  And for the record, no college coach has ever spoke to my kid because she has never emailed one or talked on the phone with one.  College coaches are not the problem, TRUST ME!!!! She can go to the college still and not play soccer right?  She won't get blacklisted if she's is just a student?  Maybe she goes to design school instead or starts her own biz or goes pro?  My dd has so many options.


Its settled then.  It will be fun hearing from you in two years.  Enjoy the ride.


----------



## Justus

MWN said:


> Its settled then.  It will be fun hearing from you in two years.  Enjoy the ride.


TY, you too as well


----------



## Josep

Give up on HS.   Many DA kids don’t care about it like you and your daughter do.  Just enjoy the quality of games, the time traveling on planes, cars and in hotels.  Those memories are priceless. 

Yes memories are made on the HS field, and there’s great bonding, but the truth is, many of not most HS games are unwatchable and there are really only a few superstars out there who make the magic happen. 

There’s a great feeling when you pull into Florida for the showcase in december and the women’s u20 national team plays.   The atmosphere is fun, and all the team on a plan is special for them.  Try it out.


----------



## Gameon1

Justus said:


> Exactly why I'm here 90.  You just have it all wrong and to be honest, backwards.  I think I'm the "wicked dad from the east until you watch the play Wizard.  I was so scared of the little monkeys and that witch from the east sacred me as a little boy.  When I saw Wizard it took away my fear.  When we have fear, we attack.  Think about that why we all have a discussion today and tomorrow, and the next.  This might be a safe place, seriously.  Maybe Dom can come up with rules of the discussions.  Just a thought.  Kicker, I love you dude and I'm sorry for being sarcastic at times on this forum.  I was fishing.  Please forgive me and from my dd to yours, all good brah!!!!





Justus said:


> To all coaches and scouts in America and the world.  My dd is focusing on high school and her studies.  When she is a JR if she wants to, we will visit the schools on her list.  We don't want to be contacted.  And for the record, no college coach has ever spoke to my kid because she has never emailed one or talked on the phone with one.  College coaches are not the problem, TRUST ME!!!! She can go to the college still and not play soccer right?  She won't get blacklisted if she's is just a student?  Maybe she goes to design school instead or starts her own biz or goes pro?  My dd has so many options.


----------



## Gameon1

Mr Justus, why are you so angry. I have never seen anyone go off like this. Do you need help?


----------



## beachbum

MWN said:


> This would be a surprise, actually somewhat shocking.  Check the website:
> https://www.ussoccer.com/governance/financial-information
> 
> So I looked up the 2018 990 (which is for the tax year 2017).  Government Grants (contributions) are located in the Statement of Revenue (Page 9) - Part VIII - Section 1e.  The 2017 - 990 is $0.0 for grants.
> 
> Maybe it was the 2017 990 for tax year 2016?  Looked it up.  $0.0.
> 2015?  $0.0.
> 2014? $0.0.
> 
> Help me understand what you are looking at that shows the Federation receives government funding ... in excess of the benefit of its 501(c)(3) tax exempt status.


----------



## beachbum




----------



## MWN

@beachbum
As soon as you posted that I knew what your mistake was because the lack of any membership revenue was the clue.  You are looking at the wrong 990.  The one you found is for the US Soccer Foundation (United State Soccer Federation Foundation, Inc.) a different entity and non-profit that was actually sued by the US Soccer Federation. (https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/12/06/us-soccer-foundation-federation-lawsuit-ussf)


United States Soccer Federation Foundation, Inc.  [*EIN: 36-3976313*](ussoccerfoundation.org)


United States Soccer Federation [*EIN: 13-5591991*] (ussoccer.com)
Here are the correct 990's:
https://www.ussoccer.com/governance/financial-information

So we are clear, the US Soccer Federation (not the Foundation) receives no government funding.


----------



## Justafan

MWN said:


> @beachbum
> As soon as you posted that I knew what your mistake was because the lack of any membership revenue was the clue.  You are looking at the wrong 990.  The one you found is for the US Soccer Foundation (United State Soccer Federation Foundation, Inc.) a different entity and non-profit that was actually sued by the US Soccer Federation. (https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/12/06/us-soccer-foundation-federation-lawsuit-ussf)
> 
> 
> United States Soccer Federation Foundation, Inc.  [*EIN: 36-3976313*](ussoccerfoundation.org)
> 
> 
> United States Soccer Federation [*EIN: 13-5591991*] (ussoccer.com)
> Here are the correct 990's:
> https://www.ussoccer.com/governance/financial-information
> 
> So we are clear, the US Soccer Federation (not the Foundation) receives no government funding.


Can you do my taxes?


----------



## Justafan

Josep said:


> Give up on HS.   Many DA kids don’t care about it like you and your daughter do.  many of not most HS games are unwatchable and there are really only a few superstars out there who make the magic happen.


No need to bash HS to prop up DA.


----------



## Justus

continued...…………………………..
I was not up to speed on TC then or now.  Was it ok to use the Training Center to use as recruiting tool to bring top players to the DOCs running the TCs?


----------



## MWN

Justafan said:


> Can you do my taxes?


Yes, I can do them ... you will probably go to jail because I'm not a tax professional, but I guarantee you a large refund (I'm not putting my name on the return though).


----------



## outside!

MWN said:


> Yes, I can do them ... you will probably go to jail because I'm not a tax professional, but I guarantee you a large refund (I'm not putting my name on the return though).


So you are no worse than TurboTax then.


----------



## LASTMAN14

outside! said:


> So you are no worse than TurboTax then.


Or offer legal services after he does your taxes. It's a 2fer.


----------



## oh canada

MakeAPlay said:


> @Ellejustus You have lots of people giving you mad love.  You should just chill and enjoy the ride.  Soon enough you will be where I am at which is close to the end.  My kid is not a kid anymore (she turned 21 at the end of May) and she is studying for the LSAT and deciding whether she wants to play in England, France, Spain, Germany or the NWSL.  The days of driving her to practice and tournaments are over.  No more making sure all of her stuff is in her soccer bag.  No more talking on the way to the game about who they are going to play and what I know about them.  Now they have professional scouting reports on opponents and have seen hours of game film on them.  Enjoy the journey because truth be told it really is about the journey and not the destination.  Remember no matter how good a player is it can all be taken away in an instant.  Not to mention unless they are that one or two players per birth year that are going to make the full WNT then this is a labor of love that better include a plan "B" that is really your plan "A."
> 
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


most of the folks I know who went to law school don't even use their law degree any more.  just like soccer, unless she really has a passion for law, take a pass.  unless UCLA will pay for 3 years of J.D. too


----------



## MakeAPlay

oh canada said:


> most of the folks I know who went to law school don't even use their law degree any more.  just like soccer, unless she really has a passion for law, take a pass.  unless UCLA will pay for 3 years of J.D. too


Her mom's best friend and my sister are attorneys and she wants to save the world.  I'm hoping that she keeps her high ideals or just goes the corporate route.  My wife's attorney has expanded her thinking to include real estate law but she still wants to fight against the big corporate domination of America....

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Justus said:


> It's ok because you didn't go through the sales process like I did with my dd.  Maybe "smoke & mirror?"


We have gone through our ups and downs but at no time did I gullibly walk into something without caution or being informed. Nor if something went awry did I blame coaches or club administrators. In the end I took responsibility for my decisions for my child. You may want to try it.


----------



## 3SoccerLadies

Oooohhhhh!  BURN!!!!!


----------



## Poconos

Justus said:


> *None of you know the recruiting process my 12 & 13 year 0ld (at the time) went through except MY WIFE, MY DD, SON and ME plus the two BIG CLUBS AND THE DOCs THAT GOT ALL THE PERCEIVED BENEIFITS FOR GOING *$$$$$$ALL IN$$$$$$$


dude, the colors and cap's are making you "look" like a nutjob.  hope your kid's okay and isn't "outed" over this flack.  chill and just make sure she's having a good time with it all.


----------



## pewpew

Gameon1 said:


> Mr Justus, why are you so angry. I have never seen anyone go off like this. Do you need help?


Is that a rhetorical question??


----------



## CopaMundial

BigSoccer said:


> Question and a point of view.  If Albion is the new club in DA, how do you know they will not be competitive.  I have read they have strong 05 and 06 teams in other posts.  Who knows about the others?
> Point..  college does not start and end at UCLA or USC or DI.  What about the kids who dream of playing and are less well off who attend an NAIA school. My daughter is not on a top team an she knows it.  She is good not great but plays hard.  She wants to play in college and gets good grades.  Are you saying the emails she is sending DIII and NAIA schools should stop as she has not shot?


You are right and some, like my DD, are interested in DIII because of the scholastic level. She's turned down a number of DI. It's very courageous and we are supportive, but it is scary at moments. Know your kid and trust and believe in them. There are many accolades to be had at all levels. Just shoot to be your best!


----------



## Soccer43

Definitely do not stop reaching out to DIII and NAIA schools.  I am a firm believer if you are committed to the idea of playing soccer in college and you work hard and your are open to a variety of options your DD will find a college soccer home.  Also, those schools have a much later time frame so she could find herself finalizing offers as late as the end of her senior year and end up being very happy with where she landed.


----------



## GT45

With Pace said:


> For age groups that have both ecnl and da, the only time the A team is ecnl at Blues is if Baker is the coach.   Otherwise, the A team is da.  However, there are a few girls that are good enough to make the A team (DA) and have elected instead to play ECNL instead (either at Blues or elsewhere) because they want to play for their high school team.


This is not accurate at all. Blues coaches field their own teams, and have their own tryouts. There is no A team or B team. Some players want to play DA. Some want to play ECNL. It is up to each coach to put their best roster together. For example, Rogers 03 ECNL team and Bobak's 02-03 DA team were both excellent last season. No way to say one was better than the other.


----------



## MWN

GT45 said:


> This is not accurate at all. Blues coaches field their own teams, and have their own tryouts. There is no A team or B team. Some players want to play DA. Some want to play ECNL. It is up to each coach to put their best roster together. For example, Rogers 03 ECNL team and Bobak's 02-03 DA team were both excellent last season. No way to say one was better than the other.


So what your saying is the Blues don't operate as a club with a hierarchical concept of team levels, but rather a collective group of independent teams under the same banner.  Does this mean there isn't a unified development pyramid/path?  Are the girls learning similar/same concepts or is it left to the individual coach who put together the team to dictate training?


----------



## MarkM

GT45 said:


> This is not accurate at all. Blues coaches field their own teams, and have their own tryouts. There is no A team or B team. Some players want to play DA. Some want to play ECNL. It is up to each coach to put their best roster together. For example, Rogers 03 ECNL team and Bobak's 02-03 DA team were both excellent last season. No way to say one was better than the other.


Rogers brought that good team over from Strikers.  Those girls had been playing together for years and no one was going to break the team up. 

How were both teams excellent?  Bobak’s team finished 7th out of 14 teams in the Southwest conference.  And as you say, no one could say which team was better.


----------



## GT45

Bobak's team dealt with several key injuries. He had a very good team. Rogers brought some Strikers players over, but his Blues roster was significantly different than his Strikers team.

It is a fact. There is no A and B team for Blues. Some players want to play ECNL. Some want to play DA. No coach or club can make them play for one or the other. Players have the freedom to make choices. The Blues coaches fill their rosters with the best players they can, that fit their culture.

_So what your saying is the Blues don't operate as a club with a hierarchical concept of team levels?_

Since neither league is 'better' than the other (ECNL or DA), there is no need to make them A and B. The coaches do their job. Players play for the league and coach they choose.


----------



## timbuck

And some players play for both teams.


----------



## Justafan

MarkM said:


> And as you say, no one could say which team was better.


Ok, but if you had to pick?


----------



## Justafan

CopaMundial said:


> You are right and some, like my DD, are interested in DIII because of the scholastic level. She's turned down a number of DI. It's very courageous and we are supportive, but it is scary at moments


Forget about courageous, how about just plain smart.  I’ll take an academic DIII school over 90% of the DI’s out there.  We’ve always told our dd’s we’d prefer (as parents) they go to a strong academic school (think strong UC’s, Claremont schools, Chicago, a bunch in the Northeast,.....) than a “Southwest Missouri State (of Ohio)”  any day, all day.


----------



## bigroyalbastard

MarkM said:


> Rogers brought that good team over from Strikers.  Those girls had been playing together for years and no one was going to break the team up.
> 
> How were both teams excellent?  Bobak’s team finished 7th out of 14 teams in the Southwest conference.  And as you say, no one could say which team was better.


Here are my thoughts as to which team is better...

Abner's team won the ECNL U16 Championship.  
Tad's, as you stated, came in 7th out of 14 teams in the DA Southwest conference.  Barely got in as a wildcard team.
http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standings/league/standings.php?leagueId=MTEzNg==

However, recently at Surf Cup, Tad's team beat Abner's team.  So, who's team is better?  And, which is better DA teams or ECNL teams?  Hmmmm…..
At the U16 now U17 level, I think USSDA.

*U16:* So Cal Blues SC/Abner's ECNL Team won the ECNL Championship:
https://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2019/07/17/ecnl-national-champions-crowned-for-18-19-season/





_The So Cal Blues SC organization captured their second National Championship of the year in Richmond, as their U16 squad took down an absolute giant in Michigan Hawks. Coming into this matchup, Michigan Hawks were scoring at will and were looking like one of the teams to beat. The Hawks’ showing in San Diego was impressive, to say the least, but So Cal Blues used their substitutions wisely and timely to edge out a narrow 1-0 victory to raise the cup. Doing what they do best, So Cal played like a well-oiled machine and used their technical ability to control the game when it mattered most, ultimately sealing the deal and controlling their destiny as well. They join their U18/U19 sisters as ECNL National Champions._

_Abner Rogers — head coach of the U16’s — said, “The team was ready and focused to perform on the biggest stage. Leading up to the championship game, our girls played two very great games, showcasing their willingness and determination to overcome adversity against excellent opponents. We are honored to be crowned ECNL National Champions!”_

_So Cal Blues faced a scrappy and determined SLSG-MO team in the semifinals, a matchup that was sure-fire entertainment. For a decent amount of the first half, both clubs battled it out by exchanging possessions and creating opportunities. So Cal Blues would strike first and swing the momentum in their favor, forcing SLSG-MO to play catchup and get on the board. Despite a solid effort on both sides of the ball, SLSG-MO fell to So Cal by a score of 3-0 and the Blue’s path was paved to the championship game. _

SURF CUP:
_Girls U17 Best of the Best:  Tad's team beat Abner's team...   2-0
#690 _
_Playoffs
Semi-Finals 
8:00 AM
SC BLUES ECNL 2003 (CAS) 0 SO CAL BLUES USSF DA 03 (CAS) 2 OC #10_

However, in the DA, Bobak's team didn't even get past pool play in the DA Playoffs. 
http://scbs.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=7463836

This ultimately tells me the better teams are in the DA, not ECNL.  At least the 2003's.
I would say Abner's team is the 2nd team.


----------



## 12th_man_fan

bigroyalbastard said:


> Here are my thoughts as to which team is better...
> 
> Abner's team won the ECNL U16 Championship.
> Tad's, as you stated, came in 7th out of 14 teams in the DA Southwest conference.  Barely got in as a wildcard team.
> http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standings/league/standings.php?leagueId=MTEzNg==
> 
> However, recently at Surf Cup, Tad's team beat Abner's team.  So, who's team is better?  And, which is better DA teams or ECNL teams?  Hmmmm…..
> At the U16 now U17 level, I think USSDA.
> 
> *U16:* So Cal Blues SC/Abner's ECNL Team won the ECNL Championship:
> https://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2019/07/17/ecnl-national-champions-crowned-for-18-19-season/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The So Cal Blues SC organization captured their second National Championship of the year in Richmond, as their U16 squad took down an absolute giant in Michigan Hawks. Coming into this matchup, Michigan Hawks were scoring at will and were looking like one of the teams to beat. The Hawks’ showing in San Diego was impressive, to say the least, but So Cal Blues used their substitutions wisely and timely to edge out a narrow 1-0 victory to raise the cup. Doing what they do best, So Cal played like a well-oiled machine and used their technical ability to control the game when it mattered most, ultimately sealing the deal and controlling their destiny as well. They join their U18/U19 sisters as ECNL National Champions._
> 
> _Abner Rogers — head coach of the U16’s — said, “The team was ready and focused to perform on the biggest stage. Leading up to the championship game, our girls played two very great games, showcasing their willingness and determination to overcome adversity against excellent opponents. We are honored to be crowned ECNL National Champions!”_
> 
> _So Cal Blues faced a scrappy and determined SLSG-MO team in the semifinals, a matchup that was sure-fire entertainment. For a decent amount of the first half, both clubs battled it out by exchanging possessions and creating opportunities. So Cal Blues would strike first and swing the momentum in their favor, forcing SLSG-MO to play catchup and get on the board. Despite a solid effort on both sides of the ball, SLSG-MO fell to So Cal by a score of 3-0 and the Blue’s path was paved to the championship game. _
> 
> SURF CUP:
> _Girls U17 Best of the Best:  Tad's team beat Abner's team...   2-0
> #690
> Playoffs
> Semi-Finals
> 8:00 AM
> SC BLUES ECNL 2003 (CAS) 0 SO CAL BLUES USSF DA 03 (CAS) 2 OC #10_
> 
> However, in the DA, Bobak's team didn't even get past pool play in the DA Playoffs.
> http://scbs.ussoccerda.com/sam/teams/index.php?team=7463836
> 
> This ultimately tells me the better teams are in the DA, not ECNL.  At least the 2003's.
> I would say Abner's team is the 2nd team.


not so fast on drawing that conclusion.  first off Abners Team was missing players from the championship roster for Surf Cup.  Also two players on the ECNL championship Roster played on the DA squad, Tad's team, for Surf Cup.  And scored their goals.  Abner was also trying out new positioning and some new additions to the roster as well. so this is a false conclusion actually.


----------



## pewpew

Justafan said:


> Forget about courageous, how about just plain smart.  I’ll take an academic DIII school over 90% of the DI’s out there.  We’ve always told our dd’s we’d prefer (as parents) they go to a strong academic school (think strong UC’s, Claremont schools, Chicago, a bunch in the Northeast,.....) than a “Southwest Missouri State (of Ohio)”  any day, all day.


^^^^^This
Nothing against Sacramento State for example..but a degree from the Claremont Colleges will carry you much further in life long after your college soccer days have past.
My G03 is well aware of this. 

Potential Employee Interview:
Where did you go to school?

Candidate A: Sac State. Go Hornets!!
Interviewer: Great. Ok next question...

Candidate B: Claremont McKenna. 
Interviewer: Fantastic. When can you start?

Yes I’m embellishing a bit but you get the idea.


----------



## timbuck

As long as your job is in Southern California.  Very few people outside of So Cal have heard of Claremont-McKenna.


----------



## LASTMAN14

timbuck said:


> As long as your job is in Southern California.  Very few people outside of So Cal have heard of Claremont-McKenna.


Unless you get a masters from RD School of Economics and Finance. Employers in those areas know...


----------



## CopaMundial

Justafan said:


> Forget about courageous, how about just plain smart.  I’ll take an academic DIII school over 90% of the DI’s out there.  We’ve always told our dd’s we’d prefer (as parents) they go to a strong academic school (think strong UC’s, Claremont schools, Chicago, a bunch in the Northeast,.....) than a “Southwest Missouri State (of Ohio)”  any day, all day.


I guess it feels courageous because going to D3 or Ivy, especially in a very specified field or competitive program as my DD is choosing, means early app and more stress to get money from merit and not just athletics. But when we sat down with our DD and talked as a family, we felt like the mentality and drive of our student athlete was more than just playing the game. It's education quality and a top program, being with like minded players and students, enjoying your location as you will live their for 4 years and, of course, playing time. My kid doesn't want to sit the bench at some D1 school and get a sub par education, in a field she didn't even want to study, just because they offered her a scholarship.  Sometimes merit at a private is better than small athletic $ at a state program. To each his own, really.  All our athletes have put so much time, effort and sacrifice into this club soccer journey, it should end well for all of them. They should find their right place, get a great education and look back on their journey as one that gave them a lot of memories, opportunities and life skills. That is my wish.


----------



## oh canada

CopaMundial said:


> I guess it feels courageous because going to D3 or Ivy, especially in a very specified field or competitive program as my DD is choosing, means early app and more stress to get money from merit and not just athletics. But when we sat down with our DD and talked as a family, we felt like the mentality and drive of our student athlete was more than just playing the game. It's education quality and a top program, being with like minded players and students, enjoying your location as you will live their for 4 years and, of course, playing time. My kid doesn't want to sit the bench at some D1 school and get a sub par education, in a field she didn't even want to study, just because they offered her a scholarship.  Sometimes merit at a private is better than small athletic $ at a state program. To each his own, really.  All our athletes have put so much time, effort and sacrifice into this club soccer journey, it should end well for all of them. They should find their right place, get a great education and look back on their journey as one that gave them a lot of memories, opportunities and life skills. That is my wish.


Ivy Leaguers can be found in every professional sport too, btw


----------



## Kicknit22

Courageous is appropriate in my opinion @CopaMundial.  The environment lends to a ton of pressure to commit for these kids.  Most, if not all thier peers look at DI as the end all be all, or as a statement of the players ability.  The fact is, there are many D2 schools that could play circles around many D1.  But, most kids just believe in the hierarchy of D1, 2, 3 and so on.  So, for your kid to bypass the perceived “Holy Grail” and choose a school that is simply a better fit, is courageous.  Congrats to her. My kid did the same, BTW.  Had a DI offer before her Junior year from a school that wasn’t a blip on her radar.  She recieved a couple more offers this summer as well from another couple DI schools that she just wasn’t interested in.  Although, she did entertain them a bit more than the previous offer.  Finally, she decided on a great DII school and program that checks off most of her boxes of dream situation that she had in mind.  She’s thrilled, we’re thrilled for her.  We’re all thrilled to be done with the process.


----------



## outside!

pewpew said:


> ^^^^^This
> Nothing against Sacramento State for example..but a degree from the Claremont Colleges will carry you much further in life long after your college soccer days have past.
> My G03 is well aware of this.
> 
> Potential Employee Interview:
> Where did you go to school?
> 
> Candidate A: Sac State. Go Hornets!!
> Interviewer: Great. Ok next question...
> 
> Candidate B: Claremont McKenna.
> Interviewer: Fantastic. When can you start?
> 
> Yes I’m embellishing a bit but you get the idea.


For an undergraduate technical degree, the school only matters for the first job. After that experience and referrals count for much more.


----------



## espola

pewpew said:


> ^^^^^This
> Nothing against Sacramento State for example..but a degree from the Claremont Colleges will carry you much further in life long after your college soccer days have past.
> My G03 is well aware of this.
> 
> Potential Employee Interview:
> Where did you go to school?
> 
> Candidate A: Sac State. Go Hornets!!
> Interviewer: Great. Ok next question...
> 
> Candidate B: Claremont McKenna.
> Interviewer: Fantastic. When can you start?
> 
> Yes I’m embellishing a bit but you get the idea.


Claremont-Mudd maybe.  Claremont-McKenna students should go to San Bernardino State and get their MBA before hitting the job market.  (CSUSB has a night/weekends MBA program set up for people with day jobs and ambition).


----------



## espola

espola said:


> Claremont-Mudd maybe.  Claremont-McKenna students should go to San Bernardino State and get their MBA before hitting the job market.  (CSUSB has a night/weekends MBA program set up for people with day jobs and ambition).


I’m embellishing a bit but you get the idea.


----------



## SD_Soccer

Kicknit22 said:


> Courageous is appropriate in my opinion @CopaMundial.  The environment lends to a ton of pressure to commit for these kids.  Most, if not all thier peers look at DI as the end all be all, or as a statement of the players ability.  The fact is, there are many D2 schools that could play circles around many D1.  But, most kids just believe in the hierarchy of D1, 2, 3 and so on.  So, for your kid to bypass the perceived “Holy Grail” and choose a school that is simply a better fit, is courageous.  Congrats to her. My kid did the same, BTW.  Had a DI offer before her Junior year from a school that wasn’t a blip on her radar.  She recieved a couple more offers this summer as well from another couple DI schools that she just wasn’t interested in.  Although, she did entertain them a bit more than the previous offer.  Finally, she decided on a great DII school and program that checks off most of her boxes of dream situation that she had in mind.  She’s thrilled, we’re thrilled for her.  We’re all thrilled to be done with the process.


My daughter is at a D3.  Her coach, coaching only at the D3 level, is undefeated against D2 schools (more than 20 games played), and 6-8 against D1 schools (take away the 2 games against a Big 10 university, and he is 6-6).  Point being, D1 women's soccer is not necessarily better than D2, which is not necessarily better than D3.  And many of the lower end D1 soccer programs have lower end academics, as well.  One of her assistant coaches won a national championship at D1 and said her team is much better than many of the D1 teams they played in their non-league games.

Choose the right university and maximize the money you can get-- and focus less on what division they play (random university with a direction in its name is not likely to help get you a great job coming out of school).  The parent's desire to say their daughter got a D1 scholarship (and in some cases, they didn't even get money, just offered to walk-on-- but the parent often won't share those details) sometimes runs against their daughter having the best long-term impact on their life (i.e., getting a good job outside of soccer) and enjoyment on the field (if you are one of the last players on the team, you are not likely to get much, if any, time on the field).  We have 100% of school costs covered and most other expenses (dorm, food) covered by her merit award.  And she is at a really good university and will be a strong contributor her freshman year on the field.  That is a good outcome.


----------



## oh canada

SD_Soccer said:


> My daughter is at a D3.  Her coach, coaching only at the D3 level, is undefeated against D2 schools (more than 20 games played), and 6-8 against D1 schools (take away the 2 games against a Big 10 university, and he is 6-6).  Point being, D1 women's soccer is not necessarily better than D2, which is not necessarily better than D3.  And many of the lower end D1 soccer programs have lower end academics, as well.  One of her assistant coaches won a national championship at D1 and said her team is much better than many of the D1 teams they played in their non-league games.
> 
> Choose the right university and maximize the money you can get-- and focus less on what division they play (random university with a direction in its name is not likely to help get you a great job coming out of school).  The parent's desire to say their daughter got a D1 scholarship (and in some cases, they didn't even get money, just offered to walk-on-- but the parent often won't share those details) sometimes runs against their daughter having the best long-term impact on their life (i.e., getting a good job outside of soccer) and enjoyment on the field (if you are one of the last players on the team, you are not likely to get much, if any, time on the field).  We have 100% of school costs covered and most other expenses (dorm, food) covered by her merit award.  And she is at a really good university and will be a strong contributor her freshman year on the field.  That is a good outcome.


and your daughter is also learning the valuable lesson of not following the crowd, or "taking the road less traveled" as Robert Frost put it.


----------



## Dubs

Did anyone happen to see the ICC match last night between NC Courage and Lyon?  Excellent match!


----------



## timbuck

timbuck said:


> As long as your job is in Southern California.  Very few people outside of So Cal have heard of Claremont-McKenna.


I've gotten a few "Disagrees" for this one.  I'm not a native Californian, but I've been here for over 20 years.  I had never heard about Claremont McKenna until a few years ago (Friend of ours played volleyball there).  I had no idea that is was such a highly regarded academic school.  Maybe those that hire econ, finance or political science majors view it as a top school to recruit from.  I've worked with/interacted with people from many of the Ivys, Stanford, etc.  Aside from our friend that was a volleyball player, I don't think I've ever met anyone else who has gone there.  (Maybe I need to start hanging out with smarter people.  All of these idiots from Eastern-Northwest State University are dragging me down)

I did a little googling to find out some more info on Claremont McKenna. This is fall 2018 data:
Total Undergrad Students:  1,318
Nor Cal Residents:  190
Central Cal Residents: 12
Southern Cal Residents:  310
Total CA:  512
They do have students from 49 total states.
States that have more than 20 students:
Washington:  73
New York:  66
Texas:  53
Illinois: 49
Oregon: 32
Arizona: 28
Massachusetts: 27
Connecticut: 23
New Jersey: 23
Colorado: 22

They also have 223 students from 43 foreign countries:
China: 65
India: 37
Korea: 13
Hong Kong: 10
UK: 10
Canada: 6
Any others are 5 or less.


----------



## soccerobserver

timbuck said:


> As long as your job is in Southern California.  Very few people outside of So Cal have heard of Claremont-McKenna.


@timbuck Technically you are correct that “few” know CMC by name...however the “few” that do are merely the employers in the highest paying fields in finance like investment banks, private equity firms, hedge funds, elite management consulting firms  etc...then there are the top graduate schools that also place a high weight on a degree from Claremont, Pomona, Harvey Mudd and the other schools in their consortium...I think Pomona rejects something like 91% of the kids who apply there...soccer is a great way to get accepted and into the feeder into those high paying industries...


----------



## chiefs

12th_man_fan said:


> not so fast on drawing that conclusion.  first off Abners Team was missing players from the championship roster for Surf Cup.  Also two players on the ECNL championship Roster played on the DA squad, Tad's team, for Surf Cup.  And scored their goals.  Abner was also trying out new positioning and some new additions to the roster as well. so this is a false conclusion actually.


Wrong; two players from 03 ECNl team didn’t play for DA team in this game...DA team had 4 new players playing in this game; 1 from Abner's team, 2 from DA Surf, and the goalie was I believe an 06 player. The  game was a white wash, as 06 goalie hardly even saw the ball.  If not for the tremendous play by the ECNL goalie, game could have been 5 or 6 nothing. It’s easy to forget the 03 DA team last year was playing up at the 02 level last year.  With the additions and dropping down to their age group,  DA did show well by dominating the very best of ECNL.


----------



## MarkM

GT45 said:


> Since neither league is 'better' than the other (ECNL or DA), there is no need to make them A and B. The coaches do their job. Players play for the league and coach they choose.


How is that so?  Two comparable teams.  One team finishes first in the country in their league.  The other team finishes about 26th in the country in their league.  I'm not sure how anyone can plausibly say that the competition is not strikingly different in the two leagues.

And the Blues ECNL team was not very good before Rogers brought his team over from Strikers.  Let's not pretend that the Rogers team is somehow indicative of how other Blues ECNL teams are formed.


----------



## bigroyalbastard

12th_man_fan said:


> not so fast on drawing that conclusion.  first off Abners Team was missing players from the championship roster for Surf Cup.  Also two players on the ECNL championship Roster played on the DA squad, Tad's team, for Surf Cup.  And scored their goals.  Abner was also trying out new positioning and some new additions to the roster as well. so this is a false conclusion actually.


Just curious, why would any of the players from Abner's ECNL National Championship team want to play with Tad's team at Surf Cup instead of with their own #1 team.  Sounds kinda strange to me.   Or did they leave Abner's team for a "better" team?


----------



## pewpew

espola said:


> I’m embellishing a bit but you get the idea.


C'mon @espola ..come up with your own lines!! 



timbuck said:


> I've gotten a few "Disagrees" for this one.  I'm not a native Californian, but I've been here for over 20 years.  I had never heard about Claremont McKenna until a few years ago.  I had no idea that it was such a highly regarded academic school.


That's ok @timbuck. You had (1) "Agree". Which proves @12th_man_fan knows just as little as you. 
KIDDING!!!

I just used Claremont McKenna as an example. The Claremont Colleges are a consortium of schools and are all held in high regard.


----------



## G03_SD

soccerobserver said:


> @timbuck Technically you are correct that “few” know CMC by name...however the “few” that do are merely the employers in the highest paying fields in finance like investment banks, private equity firms, hedge funds, elite management consulting firms  etc...then there are the top graduate schools that also place a high weight on a degree from Claremont, Pomona, Harvey Mudd and the other schools in their consortium...I think Pomona rejects something like 91% of the kids who apply there...soccer is a great way to get accepted and into the feeder into those high paying industries...


I was told during daughter's recruiting process that with CMC and CalTech you have to make it through admission process first and that soccer doesn't give you any priority.


----------



## soccerobserver

G03_SD said:


> I was told during daughter's recruiting process that with CMC and CalTech you have to make it through admission process first and that soccer doesn't give you any priority.


In most D3's the coach has to run the applicant by the admissions committee and the applicant must meet the same admissions criteria that all the non athletic recruits have to meet.Our experience was with Pomona and the coach definitely has a voice in getting her soccer recruits from the qualified pool of applicants and into the admitted pool of applicants. In contrast, and in the case of MIT for example the coaches say they have no ability to influence the admissions process even if the soccer applicant greatly exceed the admissions criteria. CalTech recently revived their soccer program so I am not familiar with their process.


----------



## Dos Equis

soccerobserver said:


> In most D3's the coach has to run the applicant by the admissions committee and the applicant must meet the same admissions criteria that all the non athletic recruits have to meet.Our experience was with Pomona and the coach definitely has a voice in getting her soccer recruits from the qualified pool of applicants and into the admitted pool of applicants. In contrast, and in the case of MIT for example the coaches say they have no ability to influence the admissions process even if the soccer applicant greatly exceed the admissions criteria. CalTech recently revived their soccer program so I am not familiar with their process.


Most NESCAC schools (Williams, Amherst, Hamilton, Trinity, Bowdoin, Bates, Colby, Middlebury, Tufts), give their coaches a number of "golden tickets" for athletic recruits who meet minimum, but quite high, academic standards.  The UAA is another top D3 academic conference (NYU, Carnegie Mellon, Brandeis, Emory, UChicago, Case Western, Wash St. Louis) whose members mostly follow similar recruiting policies to the NESCAC.  

A lot depends on the culture of the school, the nature of the alumni base (often based on endowment and level of post-graduation alumni involvement), and how much emphasis they historically put on athletics.  So while MIT is less inclined to help recruited athletes, at the other end of the scale Johns Hopkins acts more like a D1 school in terms of the disparity between the test score and GPA requirements for athletes versus the rest of the class (and not just for their D1 Lacrosse program).   I think the vast majority of D3 schools still have recruiting policies/programs/quotas, but few have academic exceptions for these athletes.


----------



## Dummy

G03_SD said:


> I was told during daughter's recruiting process that with CMC and CalTech you have to make it through admission process first and that soccer doesn't give you any priority.


There is no place to hide academically at Cal Tech or MIT so the soccer players need to be students that play soccer or they won’t last long at the school.

MIT believes that it can make three “perfect classes” from the applications that it receives every year.  That doesn’t mean all perfect scores and GPAs.  It means that it can fulfill its goals for the incoming class three times over.

To give you a sense of the numbers, here is what MIT has posted for the most recent admission process.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats/

Cal Tech is similar.  Both schools require subject tests.  

If a player can qualify academically, soccer can make the difference in admission because coaches indicate their preferences to the admissions office.  This preference is taken into account after the player is determined to be qualified for admission.  If a player has the right numbers and experiences, she may even be admitted irrespective of soccer.  If not, it does not matter how wonderful the player is at soccer because it serves nobody’s interest in either the short or long term to have a player struggle (and possibly fail) academically.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Dos Equis said:


> Most NESCAC schools (Williams, Amherst, Hamilton, Trinity, Bowdoin, Bates, Colby, Middlebury, Tufts), give their coaches a number of "golden tickets" for athletic recruits who meet minimum, but quite high, academic standards.  The UAA is another top D3 academic conference (NYU, Carnegie Mellon, Brandeis, Emory, UChicago, Case Western, Wash St. Louis) whose members mostly follow similar recruiting policies to the NESCAC.
> 
> A lot depends on the culture of the school, the nature of the alumni base (often based on endowment and level of post-graduation alumni involvement), and how much emphasis they historically put on athletics.  So while MIT is less inclined to help recruited athletes, at the other end of the scale Johns Hopkins acts more like a D1 school in terms of the disparity between the test score and GPA requirements for athletes versus the rest of the class (and not just for their D1 Lacrosse program).   I think the vast majority of D3 schools still have recruiting policies/programs/quotas, but few have academic exceptions for these athletes.


Several friends of mine played at Tufts(1) and Emory(3). All met academic requirements and could have been accepted on those merits alone.


----------



## Dummy

G03_SD said:


> I was told during daughter's recruiting process that with CMC and CalTech you have to make it through admission process first and that soccer doesn't give you any priority.


It is important to remember that CMC has two soccer programs.  CMS and PP are as different as the colleges that are combined into teams.  For example, Harvey Mudd and Scripps are VERY different schools with VERY different admission processes.  Players from both play on a team with players enrolled at Claremont College.  Same for Pomona and Pitzer.


----------



## SD_Soccer

Dos Equis said:


> Most NESCAC schools (Williams, Amherst, Hamilton, Trinity, Bowdoin, Bates, Colby, Middlebury, Tufts), give their coaches a number of "golden tickets" for athletic recruits who meet minimum, but quite high, academic standards.  The UAA is another top D3 academic conference (NYU, Carnegie Mellon, Brandeis, Emory, UChicago, Case Western, Wash St. Louis) whose members mostly follow similar recruiting policies to the NESCAC.
> 
> A lot depends on the culture of the school, the nature of the alumni base (often based on endowment and level of post-graduation alumni involvement), and how much emphasis they historically put on athletics.  So while MIT is less inclined to help recruited athletes, at the other end of the scale Johns Hopkins acts more like a D1 school in terms of the disparity between the test score and GPA requirements for athletes versus the rest of the class (and not just for their D1 Lacrosse program).   I think the vast majority of D3 schools still have recruiting policies/programs/quotas, but few have academic exceptions for these athletes.


My daughter is at a strong academic D3, and her coach played no role in admission.  In fact, he didn’t want them to mention soccer at all.  They got in (and money) on merit alone.  He helped guide the resume, essays, etc., but he had no role with the admissions office.  My daughter was recruited by Cal Tech, Vassar and several other schools of the top academic D3’s, as well.  She is smarter than me and would have gotten into them if she chose them (she made her decision in Junior year).  But I do know some schools let the coach have some sway in admissions.


----------



## Not_that_Serious

soccerobserver said:


> @timbuck Technically you are correct that “few” know CMC by name...however the “few” that do are merely the employers in the highest paying fields in finance like investment banks, private equity firms, hedge funds, elite management consulting firms  etc...then there are the top graduate schools that also place a high weight on a degree from Claremont, Pomona, Harvey Mudd and the other schools in their consortium...I think Pomona rejects something like 91% of the kids who apply there...soccer is a great way to get accepted and into the feeder into those high paying industries...


Those who hire folks at highest levels know Pomona, Scripps, "Claremont", Harvey Mudd, Pitzer and Keck Graduate School. Had friends attend the various Claremont Schools - all pretty much geniuses. If any of those schools wanted to give my kids a scholarship due to their athletic abilities, even if they were recruiting to play Roller Hockey or Field Hockey or Ultimate Frisbee - they would be playing whatever the hell the schools wanted them to play. The schools are that solid. Harvey Mudd often out ranks other engineering schools - but most folks only know MIT or Cal Tech. Hell more people know the Cal Poly schools more.


----------



## espola

Not_that_Serious said:


> Those who hire folks at highest levels know Pomona, Scripps, "Claremont", Harvey Mudd, Pitzer and Keck Graduate School. Had friends attend the various Claremont Schools - all pretty much geniuses. If any of those schools wanted to give my kids a scholarship due to their athletic abilities, even if they were recruiting to play Roller Hockey or Field Hockey or Ultimate Frisbee - they would be playing whatever the hell the schools wanted them to play. The schools are that solid. Harvey Mudd often out ranks other engineering schools - but most folks only know MIT or Cal Tech. Hell more people know the Cal Poly schools more.


One reason few people know about Harvey Mudd is that so few people graduate from there.  Their total enrollment is smaller than Cal Poly Pomona's Freshman class.


----------



## Desert Hound

Not_that_Serious said:


> Those who hire folks at highest levels know Pomona, Scripps, "Claremont", Harvey Mudd, Pitzer and Keck Graduate School. Had friends attend the various Claremont Schools - all pretty much geniuses. If any of those schools wanted to give my kids a scholarship due to their athletic abilities, even if they were recruiting to play Roller Hockey or Field Hockey or Ultimate Frisbee - they would be playing whatever the hell the schools wanted them to play. The schools are that solid. Harvey Mudd often out ranks other engineering schools - but most folks only know MIT or Cal Tech. Hell more people know the Cal Poly schools more.


Those in the know go the the "Harvard of the West" aka Arizona State.


----------



## Not_that_Serious

espola said:


> One reason few people know about Harvey Mudd is that so few people graduate from there.  Their total enrollment is smaller than Cal Poly Pomona's Freshman class.


I use to go over to the various Claremont campuses back when I was in college, usually chasing a friend's roommate's skirt around, and the very small close knit atmosphere was great. Not everyone likes that style of campus when they are young - bigger, louder = more fun! Claremont is a nice quiet town, something the young ones find boring.


----------



## espola

Not_that_Serious said:


> I use to go over to the various Claremont campuses back when I was in college, usually chasing a friend's roommate's skirt around, and the very small close knit atmosphere was great. Not everyone likes that style of campus when they are young - bigger, louder = more fun! Claremont is a nice quiet town, something the young ones find boring.


Back in the 70's Claremont was in the middle of the LA-downwind smog zone.  Are things better there now?


----------



## Not_that_Serious

Desert Hound said:


> Those in the know go the the "Harvard of the West" aka Arizona State.


yes Harvard of the West. Placing AZ State's rep anywhere near Claremont College's rep will make grads from those schools ask if you need medication for your mental condition.


----------



## outside!

espola said:


> Back in the 70's Claremont was in the middle of the LA-downwind smog zone.  Are things better there now?


Thanks to the EPA, yes.


----------



## Not_that_Serious

espola said:


> Back in the 70's Claremont was in the middle of the LA-downwind smog zone.  Are things better there now?


Late 90s - Early 00s it was fine. Dont ever remember any time we had any alerts in the SGV basin. Two friends lived in Claremont and had various roommates that went to the schools.  Then again I was probably paying attention more getting to where the young ladies lived, rather than how the quality of the air was. Areas in Pomona was seemed thick with a ton of trucks roaming around and Diamond Bar wasnt the best. A ton more traffic and cars running around now, I would imagine Air Quality would hit just below the threshold for a Smog Alert more often now. I hated the heat in the Summer through some of Fall - but some of that area, especially on campuses, you could see the season changes.


----------



## Not_that_Serious

outside! said:


> Thanks to the EPA, yes.


CARB blocking reg to most old diesel rigs. they plan on blocking just about every big rig diesel sooner than later. Family members are truck drivers in other states and dont come into Cali due to them needing a particulate filter on their older rigs. Still wont eliminate the smog issue. Smog only making Cali Kids training stronger - at least how Id sell my program to players/parents visiting my college athletic program.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Not_that_Serious said:


> CARB blocking reg to most old diesel rigs. they plan on blocking just about every big rig diesel sooner than later. Family members are truck drivers in other states and dont come into Cali due to them needing a particulate filter on their older rigs. Still wont eliminate the smog issue. Smog only making Cali Kids training stronger - at least how Id sell my program to players/parents visiting my college athletic program.


I cough less now when I play. Thanks EPA.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Not_that_Serious said:


> Late 90s - Early 00s it was fine. Dont ever remember any time we had any alerts in the SGV basin. Two friends lived in Claremont and had various roommates that went to the schools.  Then again I was probably paying attention more getting to where the young ladies lived, rather than how the quality of the air was. Areas in Pomona was seemed thick with a ton of trucks roaming around and Diamond Bar wasnt the best. A ton more traffic and cars running around now, I would imagine Air Quality would hit just below the threshold for a Smog Alert more often now. I hated the heat in the Summer through some of Fall - but some of that area, especially on campuses, you could see the season changes.


I know the area. Played at CPP in the 90’s. Training during the summer was brutal. Between the heat and air quality made it tough.


----------



## Not_that_Serious

LASTMAN14 said:


> I know the area. Played at CPP in the 90’s. Training during the summer was brutal. Between the heat and air quality made it tough.


Go Broncos! I played baseball but politics like everywhere and decided not to play at school. Teams were terrible.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Not_that_Serious said:


> Go Broncos! I played baseball but politics like everywhere and decided not to play at school. Teams were terrible.


Sounds like you got there after John Scolinos retired. Not the same after he left.


----------



## Not_that_Serious

LASTMAN14 said:


> Sounds like you got there after John Scolinos retired. Not the same after he left.


I think Ashman use to coach all the years I was there. they really they had dudes that couldnt even get the ball to the warning track playing. I use to park in the back lot and walk to main campus. I was a bit overly vocal and use to yell thing at them almost everyday. Won a hat of money, too bad mainly $1s,  hitting balls into the lot in my jeans and sandals after they had enough of me yelling at them- the f'n dude still never asked if I could play. Hah


----------



## soccerobserver

Dos Equis said:


> Most NESCAC schools (Williams, Amherst, Hamilton, Trinity, Bowdoin, Bates, Colby, Middlebury, Tufts), give their coaches a number of "golden tickets" for athletic recruits who meet minimum, but quite high, academic standards.  The UAA is another top D3 academic conference (NYU, Carnegie Mellon, Brandeis, Emory, UChicago, Case Western, Wash St. Louis) whose members mostly follow similar recruiting policies to the NESCAC.
> 
> A lot depends on the culture of the school, the nature of the alumni base (often based on endowment and level of post-graduation alumni involvement), and how much emphasis they historically put on athletics.  So while MIT is less inclined to help recruited athletes, at the other end of the scale Johns Hopkins acts more like a D1 school in terms of the disparity between the test score and GPA requirements for athletes versus the rest of the class (and not just for their D1 Lacrosse program).   I think the vast majority of D3 schools still have recruiting policies/programs/quotas, but few have academic exceptions for these athletes.


Many consider the UAA Conference to be the most prestigious in D3. As a proof statement to the UAA's strength, in the 2016 NCAA D3 National Tournament, 3 of the Final Four were from the UAA alone. Hopkins was a founding member of the UAA but switched to the Centennial on 2002. In addition to the UAA and the NESCAC, the Centennial Conference also includes great academic institutions including Swarthmore (Centennial champs 3 out of 5 years running), Johns Hopkins(Centennial champs 2 out of 5 years running), Haveford and Bryn Mawr (not great at soccer).


----------



## soccerobserver

SD_Soccer said:


> My daughter is at a strong academic D3, and her coach played no role in admission.  In fact, he didn’t want them to mention soccer at all.  They got in (and money) on merit alone.  He helped guide the resume, essays, etc., but he had no role with the admissions office.  My daughter was recruited by Cal Tech, Vassar and several other schools of the top academic D3’s, as well.  She is smarter than me and would have gotten into them if she chose them (she made her decision in Junior year).  But I do know some schools let the coach have some sway in admissions.


If your player was considering Caltech (NASA, DOD, Crazy Math) and Vassar (Meryl Streep, Lisa Kudrow, Hamilton) then she has to be one of the most versatile kids in the nation


----------



## SD_Soccer

soccerobserver said:


> If your player was considering Caltech (NASA, DOD, Crazy Math) and Vassar (Meryl Streep, Lisa Kudrow, Hamilton) then she has to be one of the most versatile kids in the nation


No, she just didn’t know exactly what route she wanted to go as a Sophomore.  It became clear that Cal Tech was not the right fit for her as she really thought about her interests.  But we waited to narrow her options until she had a better idea of  what she wanted to do.


----------



## Dos Equis

soccerobserver said:


> Many consider the UAA Conference to be the most prestigious in D3. As a proof statement to the UAA's strength, in the 2016 NCAA D3 National Tournament, 3 of the Final Four were from the UAA alone. Hopkins was a founding member of the UAA but switched to the Centennial on 2002. In addition to the UAA and the NESCAC, the Centennial Conference also includes great academic institutions including Swarthmore (Centennial champs 3 out of 5 years running), Johns Hopkins(Centennial champs 2 out of 5 years running), Haveford and Bryn Mawr (not great at soccer).


UAA is a very impressive conference, but the travel requirements rival or exceed many D1 programs.

Just because your kid gets the grades and the test scores does not mean they will make it into a top academic school without something special/unique to differentiate them.  For many kids, that will be sports.  

Personally, if your child has a genuine interest in playing college sports, and a coach tells them they have absolutely no influence in the admission process, that might be a measure of the importance of athletics at that school.  A future student/athlete might adjust their expectations accordingly.  

I also wonder what attracts a coach to a job where they have very little power/ability to effectively recruit, but that is a topic for a different thread. I also expect some coaches'  level of claimed influence in admissions is highly correlated to their interest in the player.


----------



## SD_Soccer

Dos Equis said:


> UAA is a very impressive conference, but the travel requirements rival or exceed many D1 programs.
> 
> Just because your kid gets the grades and the test scores does not mean they will make it into a top academic school without something special/unique to differentiate them.  For many kids, that will be sports.
> 
> Personally, if your child has a genuine interest in playing college sports, and a coach tells them they have absolutely no influence in the admission process, that might be a measure of the importance of athletics at that school.  A future student/athlete might adjust their expectations accordingly.
> 
> I also wonder what attracts a coach to a job where they have very little power/ability to effectively recruit, but that is a topic for a different thread. I also expect some coaches'  level of claimed influence in admissions is highly correlated to their interest in the player.


Funny, reading the again and I may not be correct about my daughter’s school.  We were talking about the finances, and he said he had no say in that but could help with what the committee looks for from applicants.  Since we knew she would get in, we did not discuss if he plays a role there.  I took the comments he made on his role in merit-based aid to the admission process,  but that may or may not be correct.


----------



## SD_Soccer

Dos Equis said:


> UAA is a very impressive conference, but the travel requirements rival or exceed many D1 programs.
> 
> Just because your kid gets the grades and the test scores does not mean they will make it into a top academic school without something special/unique to differentiate them.  For many kids, that will be sports.
> 
> Personally, if your child has a genuine interest in playing college sports, and a coach tells them they have absolutely no influence in the admission process, that might be a measure of the importance of athletics at that school.  A future student/athlete might adjust their expectations accordingly.
> 
> I also wonder what attracts a coach to a job where they have very little power/ability to effectively recruit, but that is a topic for a different thread. I also expect some coaches'  level of claimed influence in admissions is highly correlated to their interest in the player.[/QUOTE


----------



## MWN

Dos Equis said:


> ... and a coach tells them they have absolutely no influence in the admission process, that might be a measure of the importance of athletics at that school.  A future student/athlete might adjust their expectations accordingly.
> 
> I also wonder what attracts a coach to a job where they have very little power/ability to effectively recruit, but that is a topic for a different thread. I also expect some coaches'  level of claimed influence in admissions is highly correlated to their interest in the player.


There are two types of college athletic programs:

Money Sports: Football and Basketball
Money Sucking Sports: All others, including soccer.
Coaches of the money sports have influence.  Coaches of the money sucking sports have little.


----------



## LASTMAN14

MWN said:


> There are two types of college athletic programs:
> 
> Money Sports: Football and Basketball
> Money Sucking Sports: All others, including soccer.
> Coaches of the money sports have influence.  Coaches of the money sucking sports have little.


Can I have cream with my black eye. Ouch. So early on Saturday for that.


----------



## espola

MWN said:


> There are two types of college athletic programs:
> 
> Money Sports: Football and Basketball
> Money Sucking Sports: All others, including soccer.
> Coaches of the money sports have influence.  Coaches of the money sucking sports have little.


Ice hockey (even on the women's side) makes money in many schools in the northeast and midwest.


----------



## Dos Equis

MWN said:


> There are two types of college athletic programs:
> 
> Money Sports: Football and Basketball
> Money Sucking Sports: All others, including soccer.
> Coaches of the money sports have influence.  Coaches of the money sucking sports have little.


Do you actually believe this, or are you just being a jerk?


----------



## Dos Equis

MWN said:


> There are two types of college athletic programs:
> 
> Money Sports: Football and Basketball
> Money Sucking Sports: All others, including soccer.
> Coaches of the money sports have influence.  Coaches of the money sucking sports have little.


Actually, you might want to call Jorge Salcedo and offer your legal advice to his defense team.  It was impossible for him to have done what they claim, he did not have any influence.


----------



## soccerobserver

MWN said:


> There are two types of college athletic programs:
> 
> Money Sports: Football and Basketball
> Money Sucking Sports: All others, including soccer.
> Coaches of the money sports have influence.  Coaches of the money sucking sports have little.[/QUOTE


In the area of academic D3’s and Ivy League college sports may I suggest you have no clue...


----------



## MWN

soccerobserver said:


> In the area of academic D3’s and Ivy League college sports may I suggest you have no clue...


I have a clue and in the world of D3 and Ivy League ... nothing is a money sport.  Should have been clearer that money sports are those where TV money is involved.  D3's also don't have athletic scholarships.


----------



## MWN

Dos Equis said:


> Actually, you might want to call Jorge Salcedo and offer your legal advice to his defense team.  It was impossible for him to have done what they claim, he did not have any influence.


In both cases the students qualified for admission grade and SAT wise.  The spot that was opened simply displaced another qualified candidate.   My point was more to the fact that unlike the money sports (Football and Basketball), players on the non-money sports need to still qualify for admission as the coaches can only hold a few spots open for players.  Football on the other hand, you can have 2.3 GPA get admitted to many schools that otherwise would not be admitted if another sport.


----------



## End of the Line

So, how about those GDA newcomers?  Looks like Beach paid to fly about 65 kiddos to Las Vegas to beat Albion by a combined 19-2.  Salvo (wherever that is) fared worse, losing by a combined 20-0.  Does anyone have thoughts about this new era of meaningful competition?


----------



## Kicker4Life

End of the Line said:


> So, how about those GDA newcomers?  Looks like Beach paid to fly about 65 kiddos to Las Vegas to beat Albion by a combined 19-2.  Salvo (wherever that is) fared worse, losing by a combined 20-0.  Does anyone have thoughts about this new era of meaningful competition?


Wow...didn’t know we flew.   

Why don’t you stick to what you know.....oh wait....nevermind


----------



## LASTMAN14

Kicker4Life said:


> Wow...didn’t know we flew.
> 
> Why don’t you stick to what you know.....oh wait....nevermind


According to the GDA Mafia; Two out of state ECNL clubs drove 370 miles to play a California based team over the weekend. Which is roughly 100 miles further than Beach drove to Las Vegas. Now these clubs combined played 12 matches. They lost 11 of them and were outscored 40-8.  

This bashing of leagues can go on forever. There will always be a tit for tat. No matter what is flung. Just pick what's best for your kid. Both are good viable options.


----------



## Justus

End of the Line said:


> So, how about those GDA newcomers?  Looks like Beach paid to fly about 65 kiddos to Las Vegas to beat Albion by a combined 19-2.  Salvo (wherever that is) fared worse, losing by a combined 20-0.  Does anyone have thoughts about this new era of meaningful competition?


Steelers went into NE and got their asses kicked Sunday night.  South Bay Beach went on the road into Vegas Abion and kicked ass and that should be praised.  Vegas needs to regroup like my freaking Steelers.  NE is looking real good btw and my boy AB is playing next week for them.  He got out of Oakland and landed with Bill and Tommy.  How the hell did he pull that off?  When Vegas hits the road they better catch South Bay Beach off guard.  I do hope they can take in some SoCal site seeing though.  We can use the revenue, seems like youth soccer money is getting exported out of Cali.  BTW, anyone not named Kicker please tell me if my dd team is playing the Vegas B team next week on the road for ECNL or is that DA Vegas team the top dog in Vegas?  @MARsSPEED?  I need your help Mars.  Also, how much money did the avg family throw down for the first road trip of the season?  That's a 3 day trip regardless if you play one game.  Like I said, I'm sure the 13 year olds are having a blast in the pool while pops is pounding the booze shooting 98 on the golf course.  I'll drive up Fri at 12 and come back after the game.  See ya, heading back to the beach asap   $$$$$$$$$$


----------



## Emma

As expected, Albion Las Vegas did great in the younger age groups and struggled in the olders.  In two years, most of their age groups should be competitive. (no child on either team or leagues but the U15 and U14 Albion Vegas teams are pretty tough. 

Results from website as follows: 

0 Albion SC Las Vegas U-17 
7 Beach Futbol Club U-17 


0 Albion SC Las Vegas U-18/19 
3 Beach Futbol Club U-18/19 


1 Albion SC Las Vegas U-15 
2 Beach Futbol Club U-15 


1 Albion SC Las Vegas U-16 
7 Beach Futbol Club U-16 


6 Albion SC Las Vegas U-14 
1 Beach Futbol Club U-14


----------



## Justus

Emma said:


> As expected, Albion Las Vegas did great in the younger age groups and struggled in the olders.  In two years, most of their age groups should be competitive. (no child on either team or leagues but the U15 and U14 Albion Vegas teams are pretty tough.
> 
> Results from website as follows:
> 
> 0 Albion SC Las Vegas U-17
> 7 Beach Futbol Club U-17
> 
> 
> 0 Albion SC Las Vegas U-18/19
> 3 Beach Futbol Club U-18/19
> 
> 
> 1 Albion SC Las Vegas U-15
> 2 Beach Futbol Club U-15
> 
> 
> 1 Albion SC Las Vegas U-16
> 7 Beach Futbol Club U-16
> 
> 
> 6 Albion SC Las Vegas U-14
> 1 Beach Futbol Club U-14


Great work Emma.  So if I understand you correctly, most, if not all the top baby Vegas Goats who are U14 and less are heading over to Vegas Abion already and in the next two years the Heat FC ECNL will be the "B" team in Vegas for all ages?  But the Heat 04' team my dd will be battling next weekend is the top team until they age out?


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> Great work Emma.  So if I understand you correctly, most, if not all the top baby Vegas Goats who are U14 and less are heading over to Vegas Abion already and in the next two years the Heat FC ECNL will be the "B" team in Vegas for all ages?  But the Heat 04' team my dd will be battling next weekend is the top team until they age out?


I just got word that 100% the Heat FC 04' is the A Team.  Keeper is going to USC too.  I'm super excited for the drive now.  When or lose, you always want to battle the best when you drive over 800 miles round trip through the dessert and SC is not bad to test your skills.  Super stoked


----------



## timbuck

LASTMAN14 said:


> According to the GDA Mafia; Two out of state ECNL clubs drove 370 miles to play a California based team over the weekend. Which is roughly 100 miles further than Beach drove to Las Vegas. Now these clubs combined played 12 matches. They lost 11 of them and were outscored 40-8.
> 
> This bashing of leagues can go on forever. There will always be a tit for tat. No matter what is flung. Just pick what's best for your kid. Both are good viable options.


So ECNL team from Vegas drove or flew to So cal for ECNL games.  And DA kids from So Cal drove to Vegas for DA games.
Both were a bit lopsided.  
Would it have been better for all parties (Competion and travel wise) for the so cal team ecnl team to play the so cal DA team?  And likewise for Vegas?


I used to (sort of) like scanning the scores each weekend to see how everyone does.  Too many leagues now.


----------



## Own Goal

I don’t know about Vegas teams for younger girls, but For older girl LVSA (non DA or ECNL) is much stronger than DA or ECNL options in Las Vegas - at least for U16 and U17. In SoCal there are a handful of non DA and non ECNL teams in the older ages that are competitive against their  DA and ECNL counterparts. Hoping these 02s and 03s (and probably some 04s) who are at that same level but who’ve opted not to play DA or ECNL can get past all this madness and finish out their club careers unscathed.


----------



## Justus

timbuck said:


> So ECNL team from Vegas drove or flew to So cal for ECNL games.  And DA kids from So Cal drove to Vegas for DA games.
> Both were a bit lopsided.
> Would it have been better for all parties (Competion and travel wise) for the so cal team ecnl team to play the so cal DA team?  And likewise for Vegas?
> 
> 
> I used to (sort of) like scanning the scores each weekend to see how everyone does.  Too many leagues now.


No, Vegas needs the cash and dads are bored in both places and they need to get out of town for different reasons.  No need for all this tit for tat.  So many leagues and philosophies to choose from to make one happy.  One league thinks they are the true and only way and all other ways are wrong and doing it all wrong.  Not committed enough (although both leagues/philosophies have to drive to Vegas and SoCal every week in their cars and wave at each other as they drive by wondering wtf is going on or fly first class or whatever you can afford).  Lot's of money being  made off someone's little legs and sweat. Dad is having a blast for sure, maybe mom too,  Are the girls?  Really, are they?  800 miles?  This is too funny


----------



## Justus

Own Goal said:


> I don’t know about Vegas teams for younger girls, but For older girl LVSA (non DA or ECNL) is much stronger than DA or ECNL options in Las Vegas - at least for U16 and U17. In SoCal there are a handful of non DA and non ECNL teams in the older ages that are competitive against their  DA and ECNL counterparts. Hoping these 02s and 03s (and probably some 04s) who are at that same level but who’ve opted not to play DA or ECNL can get past all this madness and finish out their club careers unscathed.


Where did your team come from????  Dude, I'm trying to make my trip fun by telling myself were playing the Vegas A Team.  Please enlighten me with your squad.  I want top 20 D1 or don't waste my time.  What commits you got over there at LVSA?  800 miles...…...tell you want, take your top 11 from both teams and I'll ask our coach if we can play Vegas Combo team Sunday.  What say you Own Goal?


----------



## shales1002

Justus said:


> Great work Emma.  So if I understand you correctly, most, if not all the top baby Vegas Goats who are U14 and less are heading over to Vegas Abion already and in the next two years the Heat FC ECNL will be the "B" team in Vegas for all ages?  But the Heat 04' team my dd will be battling next weekend is the top team until they age out?


Absolutely not with regards to the baby goats. Lol.  NO ONE  jumped to Albion. The 06 team has always been good, especially when they were Inspirada.  05 team maybe be okay. 

The top 04 team in the state is Heat 04. Hell they are the top 03, and 02 teams here. Look at tournament results. When the 04s came to play, every one (meaning LVSA) switched out of the flight of their own tournament  @Own Goal .   

There was no movement here at tryouts. You can look at last year’s results and see Heat was 2nd in SW conference because they scored 1 goal less than LAFC.


----------



## Justus

shales1002 said:


> Absolutely not with regards to the baby goats. Lol.  NO ONE  jumped to Albion. The 06 team has always been good, especially when they were Inspirada.  05 team maybe be okay.
> 
> The top 04 team in the state is Heat 04. Hell they are the top 03, and 02 teams here. Look at tournament results. When the 04s came to play, every one (meaning LVSA) switched out of the flight of their own tournament  @Own Goal .
> 
> There was no movement here at tryouts. You can look at last year’s results and see Heat was 2nd in SW conference because they scored 1 goal less than LAFC.


Now that is said with conviction.  Right now I'm going with Heat 04' and my drive just got way better.  Maybe LVSA would be up for a scrimmage on Sunday?


----------



## shales1002

Justus said:


> Now that is said with conviction.  Right now I'm going with Heat 04' and my drive just got way better.  Maybe LVSA would be up for a scrimmage on Sunday?


Good luck with that one ...they won’t even scrimmage the local teams or teams within their own club. LVSA does have some talented players who will continue to go unnoticed.


----------



## Justus

shales1002 said:


> Absolutely not with regards to the baby goats. Lol.  NO ONE  jumped to Albion. The 06 team has always been good, especially when they were Inspirada.  05 team maybe be okay.
> 
> The top 04 team in the state is Heat 04. Hell they are the top 03, and 02 teams here. Look at tournament results. When the 04s came to play, every one (meaning LVSA) switched out of the flight of their own tournament  @Own Goal .
> 
> There was no movement here at tryouts. You can look at last year’s results and see Heat was 2nd in SW conference because they scored 1 goal less than LAFC.


Does anyone truly know the top 04' A Team in NoCal?  How about AZ teams?  OH?  MI?  Vegas already has two teams claiming A Team status.  Based on the U14 Vegas Abion spanking they did on the South Bay Beach Power, I would think the Abion DA teams will have the upper hand and will squash you all like little bugs.  Then we will have weekly shuttle services to drive all the baby goats across state lines for big matches.  2011 goats watch out, Vegas is heating up.


----------



## Justus

shales1002 said:


> Good luck with that one ...they won’t even scrimmage the local teams or teams within their own club. LVSA does have some talented players who will continue to go unnoticed.


Why go unnoticed?


----------



## shales1002

Justus said:


> Why go unnoticed?


Unfortunately with all of these battles with leagues (ECNL/DA), I do believe they need a platform for the exposure. In the Southwest the top players are in either league. LVSA  plays National League. Anyone that’s been to either ECNL/DA showcase knows what the sidelines look like. I know people will say you can get there without either which is true. It will require a lot more elbow grease. Just look for LVSA’s college commits.


----------



## Justus

shales1002 said:


> Unfortunately with all of these battles with leagues (ECNL/DA), I do believe they need a platform for the exposure. In the Southwest the top players are in either league. LVSA  plays National League. Anyone that’s been to either ECNL/DA showcase knows what the sidelines look like. I know people will say you can get there without either which is true. It will require a lot more elbow grease. Just look for LVSA’s college commits.


So ECNL Heat FC was #1 in Vegas.  DA Vegas Albion came in this year and is basically trying to ruin their business and probably go after their top Goat players too?  National League teams like LVSA don't have top GOATs but some are ok and are just trying to stay out of the way of the two top dogs fighting over market share and their players.  I wonder why Owngoal was claiming his team was superior to the DA and ECNL teams.


----------



## shales1002

Justus said:


> So ECNL Heat FC was #1 in Vegas.  DA Vegas Albion came in this year and is basically trying to ruin their business and probably go after their top Goat players too?  National League teams like LVSA don't have top GOATs but some are ok and are just trying to stay out of the way of the two top dogs fighting over market share and their players.  I wonder why Owngoal was claiming his team was superior to the DA and ECNL teams.


Albion was definitely coming for the GOAT players. I’m sure they still will. After last weekends results, they might need to stay persistent. You summed it up. LVSA 03 won the National League title AFTER  ECNL/GDA was formed.


----------



## Justus

shales1002 said:


> Albion was definitely coming for the GOAT players. You summed it up. LVSA 03 won the National League title AFTER  ECNL/GDA was formed.


Any free offers at Albion or pay to play or both?


----------



## shales1002

Justus said:


> Any free offers at Albion or pay to play or both?


I would say most went with what was known as opposed to the unknown with Albion regardless of costs.


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> Any free offers at Albion or pay to play or both?





shales1002 said:


> Albion was definitely coming for the GOAT players. I’m sure they still will. After last weekends results, they might need to stay persistent. You summed it up. LVSA 03 won the National League title AFTER  ECNL/GDA was formed.


And I bet they now they claim National Championship like Legends and South bay Beach does?  So Legends is still in NL so they technically could win two NC like Blues could.  I'm already confused.  Its becoming like boxing.  So many flights and divisions now


----------



## Justus

Emma said:


> As expected, Albion Las Vegas did great in the younger age groups and struggled in the olders.  In two years, most of their age groups should be competitive. (no child on either team or leagues but the U15 and U14 Albion Vegas teams are pretty tough.
> 
> Results from website as follows:
> 
> 0 Albion SC Las Vegas U-17
> 7 Beach Futbol Club U-17
> 
> 
> 0 Albion SC Las Vegas U-18/19
> 3 Beach Futbol Club U-18/19
> 
> 
> 1 Albion SC Las Vegas U-15
> 2 Beach Futbol Club U-15
> 
> 
> 1 Albion SC Las Vegas U-16
> 7 Beach Futbol Club U-16
> 
> 
> 6 Albion SC Las Vegas U-14
> 1 Beach Futbol Club U-14


@shales1002 I think It's safe to say were both diehard UCLA fans, right?  I know it's hard right now.  I can't even wear my UCLA hat around town these days.  I'm so pissed.  Anyway, Emma put these scores out and it got me thinking how the soccer team is doing in Westwood.  I'm afraid to ask this question in the college section so I was hoping you get help.  I have two.  How did we lose 2-0 to Santa Clara with 30 YNT out of 37 on the team?  How many YNT players does Santa Clara have?


----------



## VegasParent

shales1002 said:


> Absolutely not with regards to the baby goats. Lol.  NO ONE  jumped to Albion. The 06 team has always been good, especially when they were Inspirada.  05 team maybe be okay.
> 
> The top 04 team in the state is Heat 04. Hell they are the top 03, and 02 teams here. Look at tournament results. When the 04s came to play, every one (meaning LVSA) switched out of the flight of their own tournament  @Own Goal .
> 
> There was no movement here at tryouts. You can look at last year’s results and see Heat was 2nd in SW conference because they scored 1 goal less than LAFC.


Actually several 07 and 08 players moved over to Albion from Heat if those are considered "baby goats". One 06 player came over and is probably the only 06 Heat player that would make the 06 Albion team. It's debatable which 04 and 03 team is the best between Heat and LVSA.


----------



## Justus

VegasParent said:


> Actually several 07 and 08 players moved over to Albion from Heat if those are considered "baby goats". One 06 player came over and is probably the only 06 Heat player that would make the 06 Albion team. It's debatable which 04 and 03 team is the best between Heat and LVSA.


07' and 08' is the prime age to get the baby goats over to the land of milk and honey at the New Albion Vegas DA.  Any full rides that you know of @VegasParent to the baby goats to move over?  Or is it more about the 25% guarantee starts?  Maybe CM promised to the top recruit and that's enough to get them to move over?  Or maybe GK lost out to the stud SC recruit at heat and went over to Albion?  What TC do all the baby goats go to now in Vegas?  Do they a have Vegas only TC?  Curious minds want to know like mine.  Thx


----------



## VegasParent

Justus said:


> 07' and 08' is the prime age to get the baby goats over to the land of milk and honey at the New Albion Vegas DA.  Any full rides that you know of @VegasParent to the baby goats to move over?  Or is it more about the 25% guarantee starts?  Maybe CM promised to the top recruit and that's enough to get them to move over?  Or maybe GK lost out to the stud SC recruit at heat and went over to Albion?  What TC do all the baby goats go to now in Vegas?  Do they a have Vegas only TC?  Curious minds want to know like mine.  Thx


No full rides. People came over because they want to. By the way, try decaf.


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> @shales1002 I think It's safe to say were both diehard UCLA fans, right?  I know it's hard right now.  I can't even wear my UCLA hat around town these days.  I'm so pissed.  Anyway, Emma put these scores out and it got me thinking how the soccer team is doing in Westwood.  I'm afraid to ask this question in the college section so I was hoping you get help.  I have two.  How did we lose 2-0 to Santa Clara with 30 YNT out of 37 on the team?  How many YNT players does Santa Clara have?


MARs gets all pissed off with these stacked U9 teams in SoCal and I'm thinking to myself how fair is it that UCLA has 30 out of 37 YNT player GOATs?  MARs & PaPa, just wait til college rolls around.  You should thank the GOATs FC for bringing a little reality to your world.  Get over it guys.  But you know what I'm finding out, some girls get pissed off and take it out on UCLA and sometimes catch them off guard.  15 of them will never graze the actual grass according to MAP.  No, they graze the sidelines instead to root on their fellow goats to victory.  They only make the other goats better at practices.  Well, that didn't help this time.


----------



## Justus

VegasParent said:


> No full rides. People came over because they want to. By the way, try decaf.


So they go for what then besides wanting to?  That makes no sense to me?  Environment?  Better coaching?  Philosophy?  25% start?  I missed Roll Call the last three years.  Where is your goat playing Vegasparent?


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> So they go for what then besides wanting to?  That makes no sense to me?  Environment?  Better coaching?  Philosophy?  25% start?  I missed Roll Call the last three years.  Where is your goat playing Vegasparent?


Or, couldn't make the 04 Heat team and jumped ship for position?  Come on, get real with us.  I'm dying to know


----------



## shales1002

VegasParent said:


> Actually several 07 and 08 players moved over to Albion from Heat if those are considered "baby goats". One 06 player came over and is probably the only 06 Heat player that would make the 06 Albion team. It's debatable which 04 and 03 team is the best between Heat and LVSA.


@VegasParent  it not debatable with regards to the 04s. Each time either team 04 or 03 signs up to compete, in a tournament that LVSA hosts, both teams miraculously are moved out of the flight. Then the excuses come.   For the record, I never said that there wasn't any movement to Albion. There just wasn't enough to make them competitive. I personally thought more of the LVSA players should have gone. Albion just picked up LVSA's 04 best forward. Unfortunately, they could never get her the ball last weekend. The 07's are better at Heat. Albion's 08s are pretty solid. They have a great coach DC.


----------



## shales1002

Justus said:


> 07' and 08' is the prime age to get the baby goats over to the land of milk and honey at the New Albion Vegas DA.  Any full rides that you know of @VegasParent to the baby goats to move over?  Or is it more about the 25% guarantee starts?  Maybe CM promised to the top recruit and that's enough to get them to move over?  Or maybe GK lost out to the stud SC recruit at heat and went over to Albion?  What TC do all the baby goats go to now in Vegas?  Do they a have Vegas only TC?  Curious minds want to know like mine.  Thx


I believe the full rides were for those players that would be impactful, and they didn't move.   I wish Albion success. I truly do. A lot of the players wanted the chance to be on a top team. Albion offered that to them. Heat and LVSA are still the top teams.


----------



## Justus

shales1002 said:


> @VegasParent  it not debatable with regards to the 04s. Each time either team 04 or 03 signs up to compete, in a tournament that LVSA hosts, both teams miraculously are moved out of the flight. Then the excuses come.   For the record, I never said that there wasn't any movement to Albion. There just wasn't enough to make them competitive. I personally thought more of the LVSA players should have gone. Albion just picked up LVSA's 04 best forward. Unfortunately, they could never get her the ball last weekend. The 07's are better at Heat. Albion's 08s are pretty solid. They have a great coach DC.





Justus said:


> So they go for what then besides wanting to?  That makes no sense to me?  Environment?  Better coaching?  Philosophy?  25% start?  I missed Roll Call the last three years.  Where is your goat playing Vegasparent?


I have to go to my office job now and stare out the window for 8 hrs and then drive on the 405 for two more hours to get home.  Can you give me a little more than, "because they want to?  TC too, where do all the GOATs meet?   Thx


----------



## Justus

shales1002 said:


> I believe the full rides were for those players that would be impactful, and they didn't move.   I wish Albion success. I truly do. A lot of the players wanted the chance to be on a top team. Albion offered that to them. Heat and LVSA are still the top teams.


I knew it


----------



## MARsSPEED

Justus said:


> MARs gets all pissed off with these stacked U9 teams in SoCal and I'm thinking to myself how fair is it that UCLA has 30 out of 37 YNT player GOATs?  MARs & PaPa, just wait til college rolls around.  You should thank the GOATs FC for bringing a little reality to your world.  Get over it guys.  But you know what I'm finding out, some girls get pissed off and take it out on UCLA and sometimes catch them off guard.  15 of them will never graze the actual grass according to MAP.  No, they graze the sidelines instead to root on their fellow goats to victory.  They only make the other goats better at practices.  Well, that didn't help this time.


10 and 11 year olds are not in college. I guess that was the whole point. Give some other kids a chance. I'm over it now. 

As for the subject here,  I don't think my DD will do either. She wants to play for her High School, so no DA. These kids out here take pride in High School. On the bright side, at least they get a banner to hang in the gym if they win states, lol.

We would have to drive an hour just to play ECNL. 

Our new coach just had 10 out of however many get D1 scholarships from his Non-DA/ECNL team that graduated last year. Guess that's a good thing if DD sticks with soccer. Just do ODP, High School and Showcase.

DD is bugging me a lot about playing golf lately though. Can't help but admit I am a little hopeful she likes it more than soccer. I benefit by association.


----------



## VegasParent

Justus said:


> So they go for what then besides wanting to?  That makes no sense to me?  Environment?  Better coaching?  Philosophy?  25% start?  I missed Roll Call the last three years.  Where is your goat playing Vegasparent?


The 07's that came over were part of the team that left Albion to go to Heat with their coach. They came back because they were no longer happy with that coach. The 08's came because they wanted a change. Same with the 06. In simple terms, because they wanted to. No 25% start with 07 or 08 teams. My player is on Albion 06.


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## VegasParent

Justus said:


> Or, couldn't make the 04 Heat team and jumped ship for position?  Come on, get real with us.  I'm dying to know


????


----------



## VegasParent

shales1002 said:


> @VegasParent  it not debatable with regards to the 04s. Each time either team 04 or 03 signs up to compete, in a tournament that LVSA hosts, both teams miraculously are moved out of the flight. Then the excuses come.   For the record, I never said that there wasn't any movement to Albion. There just wasn't enough to make them competitive. I personally thought more of the LVSA players should have gone. Albion just picked up LVSA's 04 best forward. Unfortunately, they could never get her the ball last weekend. The 07's are better at Heat. Albion's 08s are pretty solid. They have a great coach DC.



Agree with regards to LVSA players coming over and I think that will slowly happen. Love DC and his family. Great people and he's a great coach. Yes Heats 07's are better now but I think that gap will close. That coach is very unstable. My reasoning that it's debatable with the 04's is because at Players in March they beat a team that you lost to. I know matchups can decide a game but that was my reasoning. Now that they lost their forward you are probable right that their is no debate.


----------



## Justus

MARsSPEED said:


> 10 and 11 year olds are not in college. I guess that was the whole point. Give some other kids a chance. I'm over it now.
> 
> As for the subject here,  I don't think my DD will do either. She wants to play for her High School, so no DA. These kids out here take pride in High School. On the bright side, at least they get a banner to hang in the gym if they win states, lol.
> 
> We would have to drive an hour just to play ECNL.
> 
> Our new coach just had 10 out of however many get D1 scholarships from his Non-DA/ECNL team that graduated last year. Guess that's a good thing if DD sticks with soccer. Just do ODP, High School and Showcase.
> 
> DD is bugging me a lot about playing golf lately though. Can't help but admit I am a little hopeful she likes it more than soccer. I benefit by association.


Bro, you get it and I get you.  I was into the rankings back in the day big time and I still am as you can see.  I would get bitch slapped by Maps and the Bitch all the time.  Tech is the coolest of them all.  Inner competitiveness to the core but won't show it.  Gr8t poker player he is and I love him.  I was in Texas back in Summer of 2017 for my dd National Championship run.  I was sitting at the bar with all the locals watching Foxsportsnet and soccer was on.  They were really good too.  Boys, packed house and lot's of Latinos on the team if you know what I mean.  Anyway, I'm stupid when it comes to anything past Youth Soccer.  I'm like, what pro teams are playing.  I got bitch slapped big time:  "It's HS Soccer playoffs dumb ass."  I was shocked.  We only have Mater Dei on TV in OC for HS Sports.  I thought it was super cool and I wanted to bring that model to OC......….No way Jose   Go for everything you just said Mars.  My only debate with you is when you come out to play in SoCal, don't worry about what 11 your playing.  I've learned one thing in all this: All the players in SoCal are good


----------



## Justus

VegasParent said:


> The 07's that came over were part of the team that left Albion to go to Heat with their coach. They came back because they were no longer happy with that coach. The 08's came because they wanted a change. Same with the 06. In simple terms, because they wanted to. No 25% start with 07 or 08 teams. My player is on Albion 06.


So how long has Albion Vegas been around?  I thought they were a new team.  Sorry for thinking that.


----------



## Justus

VegasParent said:


> ????


So some top GOATs in SoCal are really good and get recruited to play at other clubs but the other GOATs CM might be better or more loyal and maybe been on the team for 5 years.  Loyalty should count for something.  Well, the recruited baby goats parents want them to be promised CM, 100% starts and all minutes played (God forbid you want to take them out for a quick breather.  Hell no, if you can see the parents look on their faces when coach is looking for sub to be put in before halftime.  Shit, the parents can't handle it because your kids is 100% done for the day and so is mom & dads entertainment for the day.  Smart clubs smell that a mile a way and say "no!!  "you have to beat out the starter first and that only happens when you battle it out in practice and show up in the big games."


----------



## Justus

Is there anyone willing to share your dds or a friends DA Recruiting process for the baby goats in Vegas to help come over to the promise land?  One Parent in Vegas is saying they all went because they want to.  I'm looking for a little bit more.  I bet maybe the smart GOAT dads in Vegas said no way?  DA gots to find some top goats in Vegas and not the one's who just went because...…….I'm actually finding it hard to believe that all the good offers are only in SoCal and zero in Vegas of all places.  Nothing wrong with getting some soccer paid for folks along the way.


----------



## VegasParent

Justus said:


> So how long has Albion Vegas been around?  I thought they were a new team.  Sorry for thinking that.


This is the third year


----------



## Justus

VegasParent said:


> This is the third year


My bad, I was confused with San Diego Albion and thought they opened a new location in Vegas.  Sorry about that.  So was this a pre-academy for the U-littles the last three years and you guys were waiting for the call?  Just curious, which club in Vegas got the first call from the Feds?  I would guess Albion because I can't imagine a club turning down what some on here would say an opportunity of a life time to start fresh and get real professional coaches in.  Where do you guys go for the TC?


----------



## shales1002

VegasParent said:


> Agree with regards to LVSA players coming over and I think that will slowly happen. Love DC and his family. Great people and he's a great coach. Yes Heats 07's are better now but I think that gap will close. That coach is very unstable. My reasoning that it's debatable with the 04's is because at Players in March they beat a team that you lost to. I know matchups can decide a game but that was my reasoning. Now that they lost their forward you are probable right that their is no debate.


I was at that game. The team that lost on paper actually won in real-time. The refs literally kept taking goals away. It wasn't even close.  Then it went to PK's and the assistance was saying some VERY disturbing things to the opposing team's players. As a result, you will notice they NEVER came back to Vegas. That's one hell of a team to not be here for Players'.


----------



## VegasParent

shales1002 said:


> I was at that game. The team that lost on paper actually won in real-time. The refs literally kept taking goals away. It wasn't even close.  Then it went to PK's and the assistance was saying some VERY disturbing things to the opposing team's players. As a result, you will notice they NEVER came back to Vegas. That's one hell of a team to not be here for Players'.


That's terrible. My kid has played in that tournament twice and both times we had ref problems. The first year one ref must have been brand new because he just had a plain yellow t-shirt and would raise his non-flag holding hand up to signal the direction on out of bounds. This year we only had two refs to start the semifinals. The third showed up almost at halftime. I'm sure it's hard to get enough refs having that many teams in a tournament.


----------



## futboldad1

shales1002 said:


> I was at that game. The team that lost on paper actually won in real-time. The refs literally kept taking goals away. It wasn't even close.  Then it went to PK's and *the assistance was saying some VERY disturbing things to the opposing team's players*. As a result, you will notice they NEVER came back to Vegas. That's one hell of a team to not be here for Players'.


That's no bueno. Can you give a little more detail on this please?


----------



## VegasParent

Justus said:


> My bad, I was confused with San Diego Albion and thought they opened a new location in Vegas.  Sorry about that.  So was this a pre-academy for the U-littles the last three years and you guys were waiting for the call?  Just curious, which club in Vegas got the first call from the Feds?  I would guess Albion because I can't imagine a club turning down what some on here would say an opportunity of a life time to start fresh and get real professional coaches in.  Where do you guys go for the TC?


We are an affiliate of Albion San Diego. I don't know what you mean about pre academy and waiting on the call. To my knowledge the club applied and was accepted. LVSA applied also and was not accepted. There was a TC here in March.


----------



## Justus

shales1002 said:


> I was at that game. The team that lost on paper actually won in real-time. The refs literally kept taking goals away. It wasn't even close.  Then it went to PK's and the assistance was saying some VERY disturbing things to the opposing team's players. As a result, you will notice they NEVER came back to Vegas. That's one hell of a team to not be here for Players'.


I remember back in the day when my dds team had the ball 95% of the time.  The other team put everyone on defense.  I think they called it "10 in the box."  They took at least 30 rocket in fire from all the players on our team.  Rocket ball shots hit cross bars, sailed over, some actually went in but the stupid ref who was slow and over weight and not paying attention called offsides because from his angle wearing extra big classes he saw offsides.   All of us dads and moms saw something else of course. That's how riots are started and huge toxic bait for the forum folks when the winning dads and moms come on here to brag a little.  These clowns would go on here and have bragging rights because they knocked off the #1 U9 team in the country at the time in PKs all because our GK went left instead of right and the other GK chose left when we went left.  I guess we would never no the truth about these games without the SoCal Soccer Forum.  At least in 83, we all saw on TV how you can beat Goliath in basketball with no shot clock.  RIP Jimmy V


----------



## NorCal

Justus said:


> Does anyone truly know the top 04' A Team in NoCal?  How about AZ teams?  OH?  MI?  Vegas already has two teams claiming A Team status.  Based on the U14 Vegas Abion spanking they did on the South Bay Beach Power, I would think the Abion DA teams will have the upper hand and will squash you all like little bugs.  Then we will have weekly shuttle services to drive all the baby goats across state lines for big matches.  2011 goats watch out, Vegas is heating up.


Top NorCal '04 Teams:

MVLA (ECNL)
Quakes (DA)
San Juan (ECNL)
Mustang (ECNL)
Placer (DA)
PSV (NPL)
Clovis (NPL)
Santa Rosa (ECNL)


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## Dubs

shales1002 said:


> I was at that game. The team that lost on paper actually won in real-time. The refs literally kept taking goals away. It wasn't even close.  Then it went to PK's and the assistance was saying some VERY disturbing things to the opposing team's players. As a result, you will notice they NEVER came back to Vegas. That's one hell of a team to not be here for Players'.


The WORST tourney my DDs team has ever been to.  Horrible fields, worse refs... We went 2 years ago and that was the last.  Our coach said enough is enough even though there was great college coach turn out.


----------



## Justus

VegasParent said:


> We are an affiliate of Albion San Diego. I don't know what you mean about pre academy and waiting on the call. To my knowledge the club applied and was accepted. LVSA applied also and was not accepted. There was a TC here in March.


So it's more of an application process then and once all the apps from Vegas are in, the Federation takes them and does a quick look over and sets up interviews with all the clubs DOCs to see what club fits the Philosophy the best?  I guess Albion won the contract from the Feds and we should all be rooting their players on because they are the future GOATs from Vegas to represent us ALL at the games.  I'm sure the Heat FC players are taking that well.


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> I remember back in the day when my dds team had the ball 95% of the time.  The other team put everyone on defense.  I think they called it "10 in the box."  They took at least 30 rocket in fire from all the players on our team.  Rocket ball shots hit cross bars, sailed over, some actually went in but the stupid ref who was slow and over weight and not paying attention called offsides because from his angle wearing extra big classes he saw offsides.   All of us dads and moms saw something else of course. That's how riots are started and huge toxic bait for the forum folks when the winning dads and moms come on here to brag a little.  These clowns would go on here and have bragging rights because they knocked off the #1 U9 team in the country at the time in PKs all because our GK went left instead of right and the other GK chose left when we went left.  I guess we would never no the truth about these games without the SoCal Soccer Forum.  At least in 83, we all saw on TV how you can beat Goliath in basketball with no shot clock.  RIP Jimmy V


and Goliath I mean Patrick Ewing if anyone was wondering...….


----------



## Justus

NorCal said:


> Top NorCal '04 Teams:
> 
> MVLA (ECNL)
> Quakes (DA)
> San Juan (ECNL)
> Mustang (ECNL)
> Placer (DA)
> PSV (NPL)
> Clovis (NPL)
> Santa Rosa (ECNL)


Is that in order NoCal for Sept 2019?  My dd played the Quakes a year or so ago and we spanked them 2-0.  My kid goat got both goals too...….We played MVLA and beat them too and they were the better team IMHO.  I see a collectiveness with that bunch.  More of a team and not a bunch of players trying to get that one possible elusive spot that might go to a 04' someday on the National Team 10 years from now.  I know one that has been playing with 18/19 year olds.  She's the only one I know that has a chance at this stage in all the 04 little goat careers.


----------



## gotothebushes

Justus said:


> Is that in order NoCal for Sept 2019?  My dd played the Quakes a year or so ago and we spanked them 2-0.  My kid goat got both goals too...….We played MVLA and beat them too and they were the better team IMHO.  I see a collectiveness with that bunch.  More of a team and not a bunch of players trying to get that one possible elusive spot that might go to a 04' someday on the National Team 10 years from now.  I know one that has been playing with 18/19 year olds.  She's the only one I know that has a chance at this stage in all the 04 little goat careers.


2 years ago? That was a total difference team.  This years 04’s team was actually very strong. I agree with you that Mlva is a pretty strong team too. Your team must be strong to beating MVLA 04.


----------



## wc_baller

Justus said:


> Is that in order NoCal for Sept 2019?  My dd played the Quakes a year or so ago and we spanked them 2-0.  My kid goat got both goals too...….We played MVLA and beat them too and they were the better team IMHO.  I see a collectiveness with that bunch.  More of a team and not a bunch of players trying to get that one possible elusive spot that might go to a 04' someday on the National Team 10 years from now.  I know one that has been playing with 18/19 year olds.  She's the only one I know that has a chance at this stage in all the 04 little goat careers.


Which team did your kid play for when you played MVLA? The MVLA 04's have not lost to a Southern California team since the birth year change.


----------



## Justus

gotothebushes said:


> 2 years ago? That was a total difference team.  This years 04’s team was actually very strong. I agree with you that Mlva is a pretty strong team too. Your team must be strong to beating MVLA 04.


I know the goals don't count either because the DA wouldn't allow the little goats to do playoffs the first year.  They had better, more competitive games for us to play.  The only two games that mattered to my goat that year was Legends and the Quakes because they they both had 4 goats each on the list she missed out on because she wasn't putting in all the extra work like others.  We beat Legends 5-0 and quakes 2-0.  She also got the first goal against the 4 chosen players in the first 2 minutes of the big match,  Then assisted on the next one about 4 minutes later, scored again and then took a breather at 5-0 in the 2nd half.  Great things are our goats did back then.  We were #1 until the DA came in and made the games more competitive.  My dd saw the writing on the wall and knew right away it was way to physical for her so she decided to go out for the Varsity HS Soccer team as Fr and play with and against Jr and Srs.  It was easy on her body too.


----------



## Justus

wc_baller said:


> Which team did your kid play for when you played MVLA? The MVLA 04's have not lost to a Southern California team since the birth year change.


You know what, it might have been the Mustangs.  I'm trying to go back now and look.  I will clarify once I find the box score.  My dd had the game of her life too.  Anyone with videos of the MLVA Top Nocal team out there or anything on youtube a year and half ago?  I didn't know I needed to prove to some of you the goals my little goat scored were amazing and all at the right time too.  I know they don't count like the one's in todays league.


----------



## NorCal

Justus said:


> You know what, it might have been the Mustangs.  I'm trying to go back now and look.  I will clarify once I find the box score.  My dd had the game of her life too.  Anyone with videos of the MLVA Top Nocal team out there or anything on youtube a year and half ago?  I didn't know I needed to prove to some of you the goals my little goat scored were amazing and all at the right time too.  I know they don't count like the one's in todays league.


It wasn't MVLA that you beat...maybe Mustang, they travel to SoCal a lot so that could be a possibility. Quakes went undefeated last year in DA so I'm not sure when you beat them; I know they move some of their 04s around to the older teams from time to time so maybe it was a mixed team when you played them.  

MVLA, Quakes and San Juan are the top 3 teams in NorCal for '04. Many would agree that MVLA and Quakes are 1-2 in the Nation for that age group (clubs are about 15 miles apart too). The talent in the '04 age group in Northern California is ridiculous.


----------



## MarkM

End of the Line said:


> So, how about those GDA newcomers?  Looks like Beach paid to fly about 65 kiddos to Las Vegas to beat Albion by a combined 19-2.  Salvo (wherever that is) fared worse, losing by a combined 20-0.  Does anyone have thoughts about this new era of meaningful competition?


Why any team travels outside of SoCal for league games is beyond me.  It's a total waste and makes soccer unnecessarily expensive.  SoCal clubs need to start throwing around their weight, just as California is now doing with the NCAA.  If teams outside of SoCal don't want to come and play us, who cares.  We have more than enough competition locally.


----------



## outside!

MarkM said:


> Why any team travels outside of SoCal for league games is beyond me.  It's a total waste and makes soccer unnecessarily expensive.  SoCal clubs need to start throwing around their weight, just as California is now doing with the NCAA.  If teams outside of SoCal don't want to come and play us, who cares.  We have more than enough competition locally.


But then the coaches and DOC's wouldn't get free travel to see such garden spots as Frisco Texas and Floriduh.


----------



## Justus

NorCal said:


> It wasn't MVLA that you beat...maybe Mustang, they travel to SoCal a lot so that could be a possibility. Quakes went undefeated last year in DA so I'm not sure when you beat them; I know they move some of their 04s around to the older teams from time to time so maybe it was a mixed team when you played them.
> 
> MVLA, Quakes and San Juan are the top 3 teams in NorCal for '04. Many would agree that MVLA and Quakes are 1-2 in the Nation for that age group (clubs are about 15 miles apart too). The talent in the '04 age group in Northern California is ridiculous.


You guys are ridiculous up there, let me tell you.  I agree 100% #1 and #2 are up there Team wise.  Down in SoCal we have so many teams you can't see straight.  How many DA and ECNL 04 teams do we have total in SoCal?  I say we got divided and top goats everywhere spread out looking for the chance to shine in front of the scouts at US Soccer Training Centers in San Diego and other places like the Legends.  Take San Jose and surrounding area for example.  Quakes and????  You see,they got all the top goats in the area a long time ago.  4 YNT players all going to UCLA.  I think that was the De Anza team my dds old Surf team would spank all the time.  Beat them 2-0 first year of DA, look it up.  My goat scored two goals and the coach from the other team had nice things to say about her too.  Really, it was her best game at that point in her young goat career.  Trust me on this one.  They would come down for friendlies because his coach and my dd coach played against each other as boys I think.  I'm guessing they all went DA just because they wanted to......nothing else those players would want at the Quakes?  Coach wanted to try the new Euro Philosophy too.  He got hooked early on, that's all I can say.  His soccer was the best besides our Surf team.  He went DA so early it caused his team to be ineligible for the Far West Regionals.  Their application was better than all the other clubs I guess?  Anyway, the rest of the girls in San Jose and NoCal that didn't make De Anza top team from before went MVLA.  Quakes 04' are and has always been numero uno up there based on the DA Championship IMHO, 4 YNT members and all UCLA recruits.  Sorry bro #1 is Quakes and MLVA #2.  You need to knock them off some how.  You have no one up there on THE LIST from MLVA  so how on earth could you possible claim to be #1 in NorCal and the rest of the country for that matter.  Get over it and look for a way that your team can play them.  Don't let DA know though.  Friendly game when no one is watching.  Vegas is easy.  Heat is #1.


----------



## Justus

*"You have NO idea what the rest of the USA deals with day in day out. Have you lived in any other state in the contiguous USA? I have...so I feel far more prepared for this discussion. What’s you real point? You bragged to me how “recruited your DD was. Now want to cry foul about how you were lied to. " *

Yes Kicker, I feel lied to if you haven't guessed and I don't think I'm alone.  I have only lived by the beach in Cali and Temecula for 10 years.  Only SoCa bro.  I didn't feel prepared the other night because I only lived in SoCal.  Since you lived in so many places across the USA, I would like to see if you would take the time tell us about Ohio and Michigan?  I have NV and CA.  You report back to the group what you find.  I got NV done and NorCal.  SoCal is bitch.  Anyone want to tell me who 04' #1 team in SoCal is and why?


----------



## Kicker4Life

MarkM said:


> Why any team travels outside of SoCal for league games is beyond me.  It's a total waste and makes soccer unnecessarily expensive.  SoCal clubs need to start throwing around their weight, just as California is now doing with the NCAA.  If teams outside of SoCal don't want to come and play us, who cares.  We have more than enough competition locally.


I will say, it is nice playing against teams/kids my DD didn’t grow up playing against.


----------



## Fact

Justus I am so confused what you are so upset about.
1.  Surf lied to you that your dd was a unicorn?
2.  DA wont let your dd play in their sandbox since she does not want to play DA?
3. Surf DA players play at private high schools including President's kid at Bishops and are therefore working the system?
4.  The fact that your dd's glory days as a GOAT are over since you pissed off all of the GOAT parents online here?
5.  The fact that your dd's glory days on a winning team are over since you have burned so many bridges?
Everyone please add to my list if you can figure it out.

Stop the dribble about the Surf team being amazing.  Surf wanted that 04 team to go all the way due to the Board members kiddos being on the team.  They also knew that the hardest competition they would face was in CalSouth.  So they recruited players away from other top teams in Southern Cal.  They promised families from inland and OC the world to make sure that teams like the Blues, Slammers, West Coast, Arsenal (I am speculating on some of these teams) did not have a nexus of players to beat Surf.  This included scholarships to lure players away from their current teams, like your family.  At the time I am sure you did not give a crap about any of the players that were being displaced, not because they were not good enough to make the team, but because they needed to make more room for the players they wanted to keep off of other teams.  I am also sure you did not give a crap about the families that paid more so you could have a free ride.  Scholarships are not always about getting the best players but keeping players from other teams too.  While I am sure your dd is a great player, you are also minimizing the contributions of legit players on that team. You reap what you sow.


----------



## Justus

SoCal Top Teams
#1 Surf
#2 Legends FC
#2 South Bay Beach
#3 Slammers FC, LAFC Slammers and the rest of the other 10 teams

I looked at SoCal and tried to come up with an algorithm but it was too hard.  I must say we (I) (o4' only) let all the past socal goats down this year.  I am truly sorry personally.  I would think most of the old timers here would all agree SoCal always had some team at least in the Semi's or Finals at a major National Tournament?  No one made it out of the QF from SoCal in the DA in our age group.  Gr8t job SoCal, seriously screwed up SoCal supremacy.  In 2018 all the top socal goat teams were playing for nothing except to make the 2nd YNT list. No National Championship in 2018 for anyone in 04' in the new DA where all the games will be more competitive.  So we have go back to 2017 to find the winners and it's Surf by a long shot.  So IMHO, Surf is still #1 in SoCal with Legends and South Bay Beach tied for 2nd.  No one could follow us.  We passed the ball around like a ping pong and tired them all down. Our coach out smarted the Quakes all the time and it was a big time "dear in head light moment" kind of like Santa Clara did to UCLA the other day.   Best game these girls played ever up to that point.  You think my dd took the rock through their 4 ynt recruits all by herself and scored two easy goals?  Oh no, she played with the two best CM at the time where they made her goals easy.  My dd did make good runs and did finish but the passes she got were unbelievable and I say that sincerely.  Best passing team ever at 04, hands down.  De Anza chickened out or had something better to play for than a National championship.


----------



## Justus

Fact said:


> Justus I am so confused what you are so upset about.
> 1.  Surf lied to you that your dd was a unicorn?
> 2.  DA wont let your dd play in their sandbox since she does not want to play DA?
> 3. Surf DA players play at private high schools including President's kid at Bishops and are therefore working the system?
> 4.  The fact that your dd's glory days as a GOAT are over since you pissed off all of the GOAT parents online here?
> 5.  The fact that your dd's glory days on a winning team are over since you have burned so many bridges?
> Everyone please add to my list if you can figure it out.
> 
> Stop the dribble about the Surf team being amazing.  Surf wanted that 04 team to go all the way due to the Board members kiddos being on the team.  They also knew that the hardest competition they would face was in CalSouth.  So they recruited players away from other top teams in Southern Cal.  They promised families from inland and OC the world to make sure that teams like the Blues, Slammers, West Coast, Arsenal (I am speculating on some of these teams) did not have a nexus of players to beat Surf.  This included scholarships to lure players away from their current teams, like your family.  At the time I am sure you did not give a crap about any of the players that were being displaced, not because they were not good enough to make the team, but because they needed to make more room for the players they wanted to keep off of other teams.  I am also sure you did not give a crap about the families that paid more so you could have a free ride.  Scholarships are not always about getting the best players but keeping players from other teams too.  While I am sure your dd is a great player, you are also minimizing the contributions of legit players on that team. You reap what you sow.


I agree and we did, believe me.  I actually care more than you think.


----------



## Justus

Fact said:


> Justus I am so confused what you are so upset about.
> 1.  Surf lied to you that your dd was a unicorn?
> 2.  DA wont let your dd play in their sandbox since she does not want to play DA?
> 3. Surf DA players play at private high schools including President's kid at Bishops and are therefore working the system?
> 4.  The fact that your dd's glory days as a GOAT are over since you pissed off all of the GOAT parents online here?
> 5.  The fact that your dd's glory days on a winning team are over since you have burned so many bridges?
> Everyone please add to my list if you can figure it out.
> 
> Stop the dribble about the Surf team being amazing.  Surf wanted that 04 team to go all the way due to the Board members kiddos being on the team.  They also knew that the hardest competition they would face was in CalSouth.  So they recruited players away from other top teams in Southern Cal.  They promised families from inland and OC the world to make sure that teams like the Blues, Slammers, West Coast, Arsenal (I am speculating on some of these teams) did not have a nexus of players to beat Surf.  This included scholarships to lure players away from their current teams, like your family.  At the time I am sure you did not give a crap about any of the players that were being displaced, not because they were not good enough to make the team, but because they needed to make more room for the players they wanted to keep off of other teams.  I am also sure you did not give a crap about the families that paid more so you could have a free ride.  Scholarships are not always about getting the best players but keeping players from other teams too.  While I am sure your dd is a great player, you are also minimizing the contributions of legit players on that team. You reap what you sow.


Listen, sorry about what went down a few years ago.  However, did you take a look at what the Legends FC haul brought in the year after?  No YNT one year and then 4.  Gee, how did that happen?  Surf was not alone.  San Jose Earthquakes (Girls DA) got the #1 team in Nocal, De Anza to come over and his coach mid season and cost CalNorth a championship opportunity against us in the finals in Far West.  I'm pissed about that.  The whole 04' team vanished in the night.  And your pissed at me because my dd made a move and a few months later a few of her friends came.  Get mad at the DA bro.  They changed the birth year and did all this in one year to us and now were all fighting....lol.  I was just trying to find a place for my little goat to graze the land.  It was hard stuff.  This is tough stuff.  Please don't read anymore.


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> Listen, sorry about what went down a few years ago.  However, did you take a look at what the Legends FC haul brought in the year after?  No YNT one year and then 4.  Gee, how did that happen?  Surf was not alone.  San Jose Earthquakes (Girls DA) got the #1 team in Nocal, De Anza to come over and his coach mid season and cost CalNorth a championship opportunity against us in the finals in Far West.  I'm pissed about that.  The whole 04' team vanished in the night.  And your pissed at me because my dd made a move and a few months later a few of her friends came.  Get mad at the DA bro.  They changed the birth year and did all this in one year to us and now were all fighting....lol.  I was just trying to find a place for my little goat to graze the land.  It was hard stuff.  This is tough stuff.  Please don't read anymore.


Instead of playing De Anza, we had to play some team called "Pacnorth"in the Semis and our team won 10-0.  We wanted De Anza and that's it because we knew whoever wins that game will be the true champ.


----------



## Justus

and for the record Fact, Kobe Bryant even got into the SoCal Youth Soccer action.  I heard he "sponsored" a few Goats too for his team his dd played on.  This is Socal, big time soccer here and I got way more than I wanted.  I feel like I owe it to the next sucker so he doesn't get screwed over like you did and I did.


----------



## Fact

Justus said:


> and for the record Fact, Kobe Bryant even got into the SoCal Youth Soccer action.  I heard he "sponsored" a few Goats too for his team his dd played on.  This is Socal, big time soccer here and I got way more than I wanted.  I feel like I owe it to the next sucker so he doesn't get screwed over like you did and I did.


Excuse me but I am not complaining about my families teams.  Take some responsibility for your actions instead of continually whining that YOU got screwed over.


----------



## Fact

Justus said:


> and for the record Fact, Kobe Bryant even got into the SoCal Youth Soccer action.  I heard he "sponsored" a few Goats too for his team his dd played on.  This is Socal, big time soccer here and I got way more than I wanted.  I feel like I owe it to the next sucker so he doesn't get screwed over like you did and I did.


What does Kobe sponsoring a few kids have to do with anything?  I've sponsored a few AYSO kiddos. Does that make me a god?
"Big time soccer"  this quote is exactly where your problem stems from.  seek help, these are little kids you are talking about.


----------



## Justus

Justus I am so confused what you are so upset about.
1. Surf lied to you that your dd was a unicorn? *No*, *Once a soccer player, always*. 
2. DA wont let your dd play in their sandbox since she does not want to play DA?  *Hard one to answer*
3. Surf DA players play at private high schools including President's kid at Bishops and are therefore working the system? *I have no clue*
4. The fact that your dd's glory days as a GOAT are over since you pissed off all of the GOAT parents online here? *Half and half right now so not ALL.  Small correction *
5. The fact that your dd's glory days on a winning team are over since you have burned so many bridges? *Was never looking for a winning team.  Only other goats who wanted to win too.  Winning for some teams might mean making the playoffs.  It's not all about winning but winning is fun.  *
Everyone please add to my list if you can figure it out.
I have a few to add
1.  Old DOC is my issue
2.  DA is really upsetting me
3.  The lies from the DA that this is the most competitive games on the market.
3.  No non DA 04' on The List
4.  Forced a new philosophy down our throats
5.  The girls are getting screwed
6.  Long far drive for 800 miles for one game
7.  Have to Travel on plans not to Hawaii
8.  Not Ensuring a healthy environment for my goat
9.  Not Allowing Latinos not named Donavan on the 59 member Youth Task Force
I have more if you want them


----------



## Fact

Justus said:


> Listen, sorry about what went down a few years ago.  However, did you take a look at what the Legends FC haul brought in the year after?  No YNT one year and then 4.  Gee, how did that happen?  Surf was not alone.  San Jose Earthquakes (Girls DA) got the #1 team in Nocal, De Anza to come over and his coach mid season and cost CalNorth a championship opportunity against us in the finals in Far West.  I'm pissed about that.  The whole 04' team vanished in the night.  And your pissed at me because my dd made a move and a few months later a few of her friends came.  Get mad at the DA bro.  They changed the birth year and did all this in one year to us and now were all fighting....lol.  I was just trying to find a place for my little goat to graze the land.  It was hard stuff.  This is tough stuff.  Please don't read anymore.





Justus said:


> Instead of playing De Anza, we had to play some team called "Pacnorth"in the Semis and our team won 10-0.  We wanted De Anza and that's it because we knew whoever wins that game will be the true champ.


Complete gibberish.  Does anyone understand the relevance?


----------



## Justus

Fact said:


> What does Kobe sponsoring a few kids have to do with anything?  I've sponsored a few AYSO kiddos. Does that make me a god?
> "Big time soccer"  this quote is exactly where your problem stems from.  seek help, these are little kids you are talking about.


Where have you been the last two years?  I call Roll Call on Fact.  Give it up, what level?


----------



## Fact

Justus said:


> Justus I am so confused what you are so upset about.
> 1. Surf lied to you that your dd was a unicorn? *No*, *Once a soccer player, always*.
> 2. DA wont let your dd play in their sandbox since she does not want to play DA?  *Hard one to answer*
> 3. Surf DA players play at private high schools including President's kid at Bishops and are therefore working the system? *I have no clue*
> 4. The fact that your dd's glory days as a GOAT are over since you pissed off all of the GOAT parents online here? *Half and half right now so not ALL.  Small correction *
> 5. The fact that your dd's glory days on a winning team are over since you have burned so many bridges? *Was never looking for a winning team.  Only other goats who wanted to win too.  Winning for some teams might mean making the playoffs.  It's not all about winning but winning is fun.  *
> Everyone please add to my list if you can figure it out.
> I have a few to add
> 1.  Old DOC is my issue
> 2.  DA is really upsetting me
> 3.  The lies from the DA that this is the most competitive games on the market.
> 3.  No non DA 04' on The List
> 4.  Forced a new philosophy down our throats
> 5.  The girls are getting screwed
> 6.  Long far drive for 800 miles for one game
> 7.  Have to Travel on plans not to Hawaii
> 8.  Not Ensuring a healthy environment for my goat
> 9.  Allow Latinos not named Donavan on the 59 member Youth Task Force
> I have more if you want them


Please do list them all.  It might be quicker and easier to understand then your gibberish.


----------



## Fact

Justus said:


> Where have you been the last two years?  I call Roll Call on Fact.  Give it up, what level?


I thought you knew who I am?
Based on my comments about my kiddos and nieces, the people that know me well and are on this forum know how I am. That is good enough for me.  You and Luis might be able to get a partner discount for therapy.  Have a good evening, I am out.


----------



## Justus

Fact said:


> I thought you knew who I am?
> Based on my comments about my kiddos and nieces, the people that know me well and are on this forum know how I am. That is good enough for me.  You and Luis might be able to get a partner discount for therapy.  Have a good evening, I am out.


I thought I did but what you just ranted about after I've been on here for the last month or so has me perplexed.  I already said sorry to the group and it's like your telling all the new people who don't have time to read the old thread that became live again, the truth.  Go to the 2009 thread and read up Fact so you can learn more about the GOATs and why this place is open for business 24/7.  Seriously folks, people tell me to stop and go to bed on here.  This is open 24/7 and I will come here when I want just like everyone else.  In fact, I encourage all the new people joining this round table to look too at 2009.  Come back here and tell me what you learned over there with the u9s.  *This is always going to be about who the #1 team is in SoCal because that usually means #1 in the nation, just saying.*..... and my goat is 04' and for this dad who only has *3 more years left here* (I was gone for the last 3)  Look at 2012 age and read everyone.  It brought a tear to my eye, no joke.  I can't wait to be like @espola and come back 10 years later and see how we all fixed this.  Encourage them to be brave too.  That's what this new thread is about, not attacking me again and bringing up old wounds.  Let it go Fact, I did already.  Here's a true story:  My dd is on the *B team* frosh/Soph VB at school.  She could try her luck and most likely watch from the sidelines on the* A Team* and *not play at all.*  But she can tell all her friends she's on the A team, kind of like telling everyone your on the DA team or ECNL team.  The reward for some is telling their friends I made the *A team* and for others it's "we beat JSierra today dad and I played in all 3 games." Cool stuff!!!  She wants to play most of the game because that is fun.  She is very competitive like a warrior but knows her limits and abilities too.  She wants Action and her Action is playing in the *actual games.*  I'm not judging those who look at this youth soccer stuff differently.  Some kids want to be just on the team and root their friends on from the sidelines and theirs nothing wrong with that.  Again, you have to understand your limits.  Mars and PaPa already have all the U9 goats ranked and this is by each teams players.  These guys are freaking good now days with all the social stuff.  I'm sorry, but this thread is DA vs ECNL and how we got here in the first place.  I lived it Fact and I guess I'm here to share a little about my experience so I can get my goat back to be the #1 GOAT again because when she was 8, the bitch told me she was fast...…..


----------



## Justus

The bitch was @Sombitch just so I'm clear.  Edit went down from 5 minutes to 4.  Is platinum unlimited edits and delete late if you make mistake?


----------



## Justus

Fact said:


> Excuse me but I am not complaining about my families teams.  Take some responsibility for your actions instead of continually whining that YOU got screwed over.


Sorry, I mean to say, "my dd got big time screwed over."  I got screwed over back in 85' when I walked on CSUF and  Garrido wanting me to red shirt.  He told me I could be the next Mickey Rivers.  However, I tried hard that hot summer to hit that damn curve ball with no luck.  I could see the writing on the wall.  He wanted me to be a scout player at best, maybe steal a base my SR year and shag fly balls all day and maybe throw some BP and ruin my arm.  I said no thanks and went straight to the gym and worked on my basketball skills and got really good.  I mean really good.  Reggie and Cherly would be there, Fryer from CDM, Tom Lewis, Leon Wood would come play some and a little Scottie Brooks now and then.  I was thinking maybe I could shoot them up in Europe with the likes of Kevin McGee from UCI.  However, when I would run with them I only worked on defense because well, they were a little better than me and I never, and I mean never, saw the rock to shoot and I wouldn't dare try either with my squad.  I soon realized I was a adult B league player play at best and that's it.  The A league guys were all ex pros and D1 only and they never passed.  B league, I was where I was needed and I was having fun.  I got the call up sometimes with the A team guys but I didn't have fun because, well, they were complete ball hogs and I wanted to go back to the glory days where I was the star attraction and that could only happen at B League Adult Men's team, not D1 college ball at UCLA which was my dream.   All my friends would mock me all the time when I was 11.


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> Sorry, I mean to say, "my dd got big time screwed over."  I got screwed over back in 85' when I walked on CSUF and  Garrido wanting me to red shirt.  He told me I could be the next Mickey Rivers.  However, I tried hard that hot summer to hit that damn curve ball with no luck.  I could see the writing on the wall.  He wanted me to be a scout player at best, maybe steal a base my SR year and shag fly balls all day and maybe throw some BP and ruin my arm.  I said no thanks and went straight to the gym and worked on my basketball skills and got really good.  I mean really good.  Reggie and Cherly would be there, Fryer from CDM, Tom Lewis, Leon Wood would come play some and a little Scottie Brooks now and then.  I was thinking maybe I could shoot them up in Europe with the likes of Kevin McGee from UCI.  However, when I would run with them I only worked on defense because well, they were a little better than me and I never, and I mean never, saw the rock to shoot and I wouldn't dare try either with my squad.  I soon realized I was a adult B league player play at best and that's it.  The A league guys were all ex pros and D1 only and they never passed.  B league, I was where I was needed and I was having fun.  I got the call up sometimes with the A team guys but I didn't have fun because, well, they were complete ball hogs and I wanted to go back to the glory days where I was the star attraction and that could only happen at B League Adult Men's team, not D1 college ball at UCLA which was my dream.   All my friends would mock me all the time when I was 11.


The reason I tell you this Fact, I personally got to live out my dreams the right way, through trying and failing until I was 22.  I reached my peak and it wasn't good enough obviously.  My little goat is only 15 and still thinks she has .05% chance and some of the folks at Vegas Heat and MLVA think so too and The Crossfire, Blues ECNL and players over at LAFC and teams like Santa Monica United before they go merge with Surf just because they want to...….all the Latinos not named Donovan and the girls maybe in Ohio and Michigan.  I'm going to do my own research on Ohio and Michigan.  Quakes has all the top players in Norcal.  They can at least show some competitive love and scrimmage MLVA.  Live stream that game and you have a winner I promise.


----------



## Justus

Live stream these big DA vs ECNL games too and all the college coaches can sit down at home, relax, grab a cold one and actually watch the game on TV and take notes and slow mow it to see if the recruit is truly all in.  Parents from the socal soccer forum and other forums across the state can watch and have real rankings based on the action we all see with our eyes


----------



## Justus

MarkM said:


> Why any team travels outside of SoCal for league games is beyond me.  It's a total waste and makes soccer unnecessarily expensive.  SoCal clubs need to start throwing around their weight, just as California is now doing with the NCAA.  If teams outside of SoCal don't want to come and play us, who cares.  We have more than enough competition locally.


DA Folks are getting ready to take a fairly over to Jones Island in the next year or so.  Let them be.  Koolaide is extra strong and I hear can put you to sleep for a long time.  Let's take the rest of SoCal and my advice if you don't mine, include two teams in Vegas like the Heat.  We should get real apps to see how many parents have been asked to leave the fields for bad sportsmanship and all the teams up North not named Quakes. We can have 80% games in SoCal and then have a Vegas road trip and one NorCal.


----------



## gotothebushes

Justus said:


> I thought I did but what you just ranted about after I've been on here for the last month or so has me perplexed.  I already said sorry to the group and it's like your telling all the new people who don't have time to read the old thread that became live again, the truth.  Go to the 2009 thread and read up Fact so you can learn more about the GOATs and why this place is open for business 24/7.  Seriously folks, people tell me to stop and go to bed on here.  This is open 24/7 and I will come here when I want just like everyone else.  In fact, I encourage all the new people joining this round table to look too at 2009.  Come back here and tell me what you learned over there with the u9s.  *This is always going to be about who the #1 team is in SoCal because that usually means #1 in the nation, just saying.*..... and my goat is 04' and for this dad who only has *3 more years left here* (I was gone for the last 3)  Look at 2012 age and read everyone.  It brought a tear to my eye, no joke.  I can't wait to be like @espola and come back 10 years later and see how we all fixed this.  Encourage them to be brave too.  That's what this new thread is about, not attacking me again and bringing up old wounds.  Let it go Fact, I did already.  Here's a true story:  My dd is on the *B team* frosh/Soph VB at school.  She could try her luck and most likely watch from the sidelines on the* A Team* and *not play at all.*  But she can tell all her friends she's on the A team, kind of like telling everyone your on the DA team or ECNL team.  The reward for some is telling their friends I made the *A team* and for others it's "we beat JSierra today dad and I played in all 3 games." Cool stuff!!!  She wants to play most of the game because that is fun.  She is very competitive like a warrior but knows her limits and abilities too.  She wants Action and her Action is playing in the *actual games.*  I'm not judging those who look at this youth soccer stuff differently.  Some kids want to be just on the team and root their friends on from the sidelines and theirs nothing wrong with that.  Again, you have to understand your limits.  Mars and PaPa already have all the U9 goats ranked and this is by each teams players.  These guys are freaking good now days with all the social stuff.  I'm sorry, but this thread is DA vs ECNL and how we got here in the first place.  I lived it Fact and I guess I'm here to share a little about my experience so I can get my goat back to be the #1 GOAT again because when she was 8, the bitch told me she was fast...…..


You should have stopped when you said '' When she was 8". 8 yrs old man!! Listen to yourself. Thats a long time ago. She's not 8 anymore. Be happy she's still playing at a high level in ECNL.


----------



## Justus

shales1002 said:


> Albion was definitely coming for the GOAT players. I’m sure they still will. After last weekends results, they might need to stay persistent. You summed it up. LVSA 03 won the National League title AFTER  ECNL/GDA was formed.


You know what @shales1002, I'm starting to smell something bad out in Vegas and how it all went down.  The President asked the US Soccer Federation to find the nations best 04 goats in the WHOLE country.  The best way to do that IMO is to get the scouts to each state and check out the baby goats and let them play and battle it out openly, in front of the scouts.  It seems like the DA had a different game plan behind closed doors with all the adults?  DA gets all the applications from Vegas clubs and sets up the interviews.  The Top club jumps to the front of line and where I come from, they usually get first choice of whatever they want.  However, A smart club (girls first) look at what the choices are first b4 jumping into something because some clubs and coaches care about the girls first, not their pocket book.  The interview goes like this to get them to follow their religion/pholosphy.  "Kneel and Kiss the Ring or Else!  We all have choices to make, some choose to drive 800 miles for one game, some choose to fly to FL and look for Hugs from Bush people, so choose wisely and do as I say and all will go with YOU and Your club."  If wise DOC says, "get lost" they will go behind your back and try to send in their WOLF/Recruiter to try and knock off one baby goat at a time with the hope of finding a naïve parent from, lets say a team like the Heat FC.  Some naïve parents are struggling to put food on the table and maybe all expense paid everything and all the access could be a little tempting for some.  I know I play around sometimes, but seriously @shales1002, is their anyone on that team that can at least give those the U16 DA YNT girls a challenge or are all the top goats at Vegas Albion?


----------



## Fact

Justus said:


> You know what @shales1002, I'm starting to smell something bad out in Vegas and how it all went down.  The President asked the US Soccer Federation to find the nations best 04 goats in the WHOLE country.  The best way to do that IMO is to get the scouts to each state and check out the baby goats and let them play and battle it out openly, in front of the scouts.  It seems like the DA had a different game plan behind closed doors with all the adults?  DA gets all the applications from Vegas clubs and sets up the interviews.  The Top club jumps to the front of line and where I come from, they usually get first choice of whatever they want.  However, A smart club (girls first) look at what the choices are first b4 jumping into something because some clubs and coaches care about the girls first, not their pocket book.  The interview goes like this to get them to follow their religion/pholosphy.  "Kneel and Kiss the Ring or Else!  We all have choices to make, some choose to drive 800 miles for one game, some choose to fly to FL and look for Hugs from Bush people, so choose wisely and do as I say and all will go with YOU and Your club."  If wise DOC says, "get lost" they will go behind your back and try to send in their WOLF/Recruiter to try and knock off one baby goat at a time with the hope of finding a naïve parent from, lets say a team like the Heat FC.  Some naïve parents are struggling to put food on the table and maybe all expense paid everything and all the access could be a little tempting for some.  I know I play around sometimes, but seriously @shales1002, is their anyone on that team that can at least give those the U16 DA YNT girls a challenge or are all the top goats at Vegas Albion?


Sitting at the airport waiting for a flight so I have time to kill on your nonsense.

You seriously have no idea who you are talking to in this post, do you?  If anyone got screwed by DA it was this family, but you see they have nothing but class, unlike you.  

If you want to rant, go ahead but don’t try to bait others into joining you.  I already told you that if you had a problem with private schools allowing DA players to play HS, do something about it.


----------



## HappyBeast

"The President asked the US Soccer Federation to find the nations best 04 goats in the WHOLE country.  The best way to do that IMO is to get the scouts to each state and check out the baby goats and let them play and battle it out openly, in front of the scouts."  

Justus, when you say "The President" are you talking about the president of the United States?


----------



## Justus

HappyBeast said:


> "The President asked the US Soccer Federation to find the nations best 04 goats in the WHOLE country.  The best way to do that IMO is to get the scouts to each state and check out the baby goats and let them play and battle it out openly, in front of the scouts."
> 
> Justus, when you say "The President" are you talking about the president of the United States?


Carlos the Columbian.  However, I bet if you ask Trump he would demand that ALL peoples from everywhere that are citizens of the USA, Black and White, Latino and Asian, poor and rich, smart and dumb, HS Soccer and no HS Soccer, Private school kids and Public school kids, kids from Alabama and New York, kids from OH and OR, kids from East LA and Beverly Hills.  Kids from San Ysidro and Rancho Santa Fe.  Kids from Hollywood and Inglewood, kids from La Jolla and South Central, Kids from Vegas Albion and Vegas Heat, Kids from Strikers ECNL and San Jose Earthquakes, kids from Legends and Rebels...……..  ALL the kids from this great country need to be afforded equal access opportunities to anything called, "United States Youth National Team".....IMHO.


----------



## Justus

Fact said:


> Sitting at the airport waiting for a flight so I have time to kill on your nonsense.
> 
> You seriously have no idea who you are talking to in this post, do you?  If anyone got screwed by DA it was this family, but you see they have nothing but class, unlike you.
> 
> If you want to rant, go ahead but don’t try to bait others into joining you.  I already told you that if you had a problem with private schools allowing DA players to play HS, do something about it.


You keep jumping in Fact Checker.  Get on your plane, grab a drink and get some sleep and just relax.


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> Carlos the Columbian.  However, I bet if you ask Trump he would demand that ALL peoples from everywhere that are citizens of the USA, Black and White, Latino and Asian, poor and rich, smart and dumb, HS Soccer and no HS Soccer, Private school kids and Public school kids, kids from Alabama and New York, kids from OH and OR, kids from East LA and Beverly Hills.  Kids from San Ysidro and Rancho Santa Fe.  Kids from Hollywood and Inglewood, kids from La Jolla and South Central, Kids from Vegas Albion and Vegas Heat, Kids from Strikers ECNL and San Jose Earthquakes, kids from Legends and Rebels...……..  ALL the kids from this great country need to be afforded equal access opportunities to anything called, "United States Youth National Team".....IMHO.


Keeping Up With The @*Jones*, I see clearly how fall a part we are in this debate.  How we view America might be a little different, and that's ok too.  I love America's wonderful opportunities for ALL of us to get a chance.  Your screen logo for one is a trigger for me, SC is the other trigger, and you seem like the one on the opposite side of the debate because everyone of my takes on this issue are dumb in your opinion.  Can you please at least comment and share to all of us why dumb?  I'm going to say TGIF and most likely call it a weekend and let everyone get ready for their games this weekend.  My goat has a break in soccer but will be playing on the B Team with her schoolmates in Volleyball tourney.  She wants to win that one too.  All the top VB HS in the state.  Again, she could go to the A Team and watch from the sidelines and root her friends on and maybe get in for a few plays when were up 20-3 or down 4-20 or hope her friend gets hurt so she get in the game that way.  I will confess, when I was a sophomore and had to fight to start on varsity team, I hoped that other guy sprained his ankle all the time (no ACL, only to the other teams star) so I could save us from the ass whooping we were receiving in playing in the South Coast League. Truth be told, it didn't matter who started, we were going to lose in that league.  Boy, times have changed now in OC with all the Divisions.  We only had four and my little hs with 500 kids played against HS with over 4,000.  We didn't wine (drank some) back then because we didn't know any better.  We went out and tried to pull off the upset.  Regardless how one enters a game or never does, is not my point.  The point is you need to know where you stand on the picking order and want you want.  I know what you want Jones.  Some it's the A team and some it's for the B team.  Or, if you might be a little faster or taller (very helpful in big time HS volleyball, packed house too, with all their friends and family from the community watching) you go for the higher calling that comes inside one's little heart.  So, you choose Mr Jones


----------



## Justus

VegasParent said:


> Actually several 07 and 08 players moved over to Albion from Heat if those are considered "baby goats". One 06 player came over and is probably the only 06 Heat player that would make the 06 Albion team. It's debatable which 04 and 03 team is the best between Heat and LVSA.


Did those players get anything to make the jump from the #1 team, the Heat?  Playing time issues at Heat and the 25% sounded appealing? CM? Were they the true top GOAT players at Heat and just wanted to graze over their for the heck of it and just because...…..?  12 and 13 is the ripe old age to truly know who the top GOATs are.  If it's private info and no one is sharing that stuff except on their public website you don't need to share your full ride will all of us if you don't want too.


----------



## Justus

*Walid Khoury*, the director of Southern California's Slammers FC, for whom Press played seven years, said, *“I’m shocked that the federation never let us know about this.”*

Really Walid, you're truly shocked?  How could the Federation slip up a small thing like that.  I'm still trying to figure out who else besides the obvious got waivers to play HS Soccer last year and why?  I would also like to know why no 04's outside the Girls DA made The List and to me, seem to only make it when they were at the right club during "Full Ride Month."  Just think how much $$$ that little Santa Monica club gave up.  Or, what about the club that raised and nourished the baby goat until she was 12 and then the wolf comes to snatch it up in the dark when no one is looking.  Although the small club truly developed the baby goat, the big club seems to be getting all the credit and most importantly in this dads opinion, all the bonus $$$$ that seems others are getting.  Last and final question for me personally. Why are there no Latinos not named Landon on the 59 Member US Youth National Task Force?  Once I get my questions answered Walid, I will try and find out why you didn't get paid for making CP the stud she is today.  Right now, we need everyone speaking up so I'm glad your here for the ride.  We can all form a line on Monday at the US Training Center in San Diego with all of our different questions and concerns we all seem to have.


----------



## RJonesUSC

Finally found the ignore button.  Let's hope this works for email notifications as well.


----------



## Justus

RJonesUSC said:


> Finally found the ignore button.  Let's hope this works for email notifications as well.


Thank you for joining the conversation.  With all do respect, let's be nice to one another.  I think we all want equal access for all, right?  I'm heading to the beach because the waves are good, sun is out and no one is wearing a wetsuit.  So I will dream again about being a pro surfer and soon realize that shipped sailed a long time ago but I will still dream it   I'm not ignoring you if I don't respond.


----------



## shales1002

Justus said:


> You know what @shales1002, I'm starting to smell something bad out in Vegas and how it all went down.  The President asked the US Soccer Federation to find the nations best 04 goats in the WHOLE country.  The best way to do that IMO is to get the scouts to each state and check out the baby goats and let them play and battle it out openly, in front of the scouts.  It seems like the DA had a different game plan behind closed doors with all the adults?  DA gets all the applications from Vegas clubs and sets up the interviews.  The Top club jumps to the front of line and where I come from, they usually get first choice of whatever they want.  However, A smart club (girls first) look at what the choices are first b4 jumping into something because some clubs and coaches care about the girls first, not their pocket book.  The interview goes like this to get them to follow their religion/pholosphy.  "Kneel and Kiss the Ring or Else!  We all have choices to make, some choose to drive 800 miles for one game, some choose to fly to FL and look for Hugs from Bush people, so choose wisely and do as I say and all will go with YOU and Your club."  If wise DOC says, "get lost" they will go behind your back and try to send in their WOLF/Recruiter to try and knock off one baby goat at a time with the hope of finding a naïve parent from, lets say a team like the Heat FC.  Some naïve parents are struggling to put food on the table and maybe all expense paid everything and all the access could be a little tempting for some.  I know I play around sometimes, but seriously @shales1002, is their anyone on that team that can at least give those the U16 DA YNT girls a challenge or are all the top goats at Vegas Albion?


@Justus it's pretty common knowledge that Heat's 04 keeper is the YNT pool. She has been to at minimum 4 camps and is #14 on TDS. It's easy to sort the info by club. They don't have camps/call ups quite as often since the Concaaf roster issue.  Again, not sure why you think the top players are at Vegas Albion. As previously mentioned, for Vegas demographics, the top players are at Heat for ECNL or LVSA for National League. Albion has a solid 06  and 08 team.


----------



## VegasParent

Justus said:


> Did those players get anything to make the jump from the #1 team, the Heat?  Playing time issues at Heat and the 25% sounded appealing? CM? Were they the true top GOAT players at Heat and just wanted to graze over their for the heck of it and just because...…..?  12 and 13 is the ripe old age to truly know who the top GOATs are.  If it's private info and no one is sharing that stuff except on their public website you don't need to share your full ride will all of us if you don't want too.


You really seem to enjoy just making things up to fit your opinion. I think everyone gets it that you are extremely (borderline psychotically) bitter towards the DA because of what YOU feel  are wrongs suffered by you and your kid. To answer your questions (again) the 07's that came BACK to Albion did so because they were unhappy with the coach they followed over to Heat. I didn't press them for specifics. Again, there is no 25% at 07. Several were starters. Maybe winning at all cost and being the #1 team didn't matter to them. I've seen posters on this board advise that the most important thing is to find the best coach possible for you kid and not chase wins. Whatever the reason, they chose to come to Albion. Others chose to stay with Heat. Freedom of choice. It's a great thing.


----------



## MicPaPa

Nothing like a front row seat at a therapy session...unfortunately, all too often therapy sessions play out on sidelines as well.


----------



## Justus

shales1002 said:


> @Justus it's pretty common knowledge that Heat's 04 keeper is the YNT pool. She has been to at minimum 4 camps and is #14 on TDS. It's easy to sort the info by club. They don't have camps/call ups quite as often since the Concaaf roster issue.  Again, not sure why you think the top players are at Vegas Albion. As previously mentioned, for Vegas demographics, the top players are at Heat for ECNL or LVSA for National League. Albion has a solid 06  and 08 team.


@shales1002 The DA has Ensured us all that they will provide the most competitive games in Americana and that includes Vegas.  You can't claim "most competitive games" if you don't have all the top GOATs can you?  Very bad for marketing.  I have no reason to not believe them just as I know they got that list right the first time two years ago.  Plus, some say I have no clue what's going outside of Cali.  I know they must have swiped a few of the YTN goats over to Albion and just holding them off.  Trust me, when the first U14 List came out their were some serious baby goats, still in diapers.  25% still in 6th grade.  These scouts I tell you know how to pick them when their really, really young. I wonder if all those goats were raised by the club their at right now? Did they just join because they want to...….. and the other clubs like Walids don't get no reward money.  So until I see a match up head to head I have to give #1 to Albion Vegas today.  Yesterday is was Heat, but after the breaking news that came out everyday, Vegas Albion is #1.  When $$$$$ is missing, it usually went somewhere and we just don't know yet.  I have a few ideas where most of it is but I'll let others solve the puzzle.


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## Justus

VegasParent said:


> You really seem to enjoy just making things up to fit your opinion. I think everyone gets it that you are extremely (borderline psychotically) bitter towards the DA because of what YOU feel  are wrongs suffered by you and your kid. To answer your questions (again) the 07's that came BACK to Albion did so because they were unhappy with the coach they followed over to Heat. I didn't press them for specifics. Again, there is no 25% at 07. Several were starters. Maybe winning at all cost and being the #1 team didn't matter to them. I've seen posters on this board advise that the most important thing is to find the best coach possible for you kid and not chase wins. Whatever the reason, they chose to come to Albion. Others chose to stay with Heat. Freedom of choice. It's a great thing.


I understand your point of view Parent from Vegas.  Things are much different for parents in SoCal.  It's YNT and stay on the team and get called back all the time or else.  And being on the #1 team in the country if you can that too.  Very hard to do now days.  Sorry, that's why I joined up 9 years ago.  I have 3 years left and looking to add to this debate.  That's all, nothing else I promise.


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## met61

Without having to go search, what is YNT?

Thanks in advance.


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## outside!

Youth National Team - A supposed path to the National Team. In fact, college career/professional career matter more for making the NT.


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## Justus

outside! said:


> Youth National Team - A supposed path to the National Team. In fact, college career/professional career matter more for making the NT.


Small group of goats might have another path too after all the news that is coming out one day at time.  Jump path  to Europe and play professionally and have design school paid for and kick it at beaches in France on true off days.


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## Justafan

RJonesUSC said:


> Finally found the ignore button.  Let's hope this works for email notifications as well.


Too late, he got you!


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## wc_baller

Justus said:


> I understand your point of view Parent from Vegas.  Things are much different for parents in SoCal.  It's YNT and stay on the team and get called back all the time or else.  And being on the #1 team in the country if you can that too.  Very hard to do now days.  Sorry, that's why I joined up 9 years ago.  I have 3 years left and looking to add to this debate.  That's all, nothing else I promise.


In this post you're basically saying that the YNT only chooses DA players, and if a player is non-DA they have no shot at the YNT. Earlier you were claiming that the Quakes 04 team has all of the best players in Northern California and is the top 04 team in Northern California because they have the most YNT players, while the Northern California 04 team that beat them head to head in every single tournament game they ever played, and finished in 1st place above them in every league competition before the Quakes became DA,  has to prove they're better on the field.

Man, your schizophrenic  arguments are making my head spin. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.


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## Justafan

Justus said:


> I'm not ignoring you if I don't respond.


LMAO!  He also speaks French in Russian.


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## gotothebushes

Justafan said:


> LMAO!  He also speaks French in Russian.


I just choked on my beer( Modelo) laughing so hard. Justafan- That was funny!!


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## LASTMAN14

gotothebushes said:


> I just choked on my beer( Modelo) laughing so hard. Justafan- That was funny!!


Bushman, I didn’t get a beer invite?!


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## oh canada

first time using the "ignore" button.  you can guess who.  Once I used it and hit save, this thread decreased by 3 pages!!  looking forward to better content and conversations.  happy weekend to all.


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## Justus

wc_baller said:


> In this post you're basically saying that the YNT only chooses DA players, and if a player is non-DA they have no shot at the YNT. Earlier you were claiming that the Quakes 04 team has all of the best players in Northern California and is the top 04 team in Northern California because they have the most YNT players, while the Northern California 04 team that beat them head to head in every single tournament game they ever played, and finished in 1st place above them in every league competition before the Quakes became DA,  has to prove they're better on the field.
> 
> Man, your schizophrenic  arguments are making my head spin. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.


Let me explain something to you Mr Baller (just playing I promise), yes I'm basically telling you if your not in the DA your dd is on the B team in NoCal.  If one of your kids can make the next list that comes out, I will personally donate $250 to any youth sports team of your choosing not named Quakes.  The only YNT List I'm referring is for 04s only to be clear.  I don't know about the 05s or 03s or the National Team List and I frankly don't care.  Only OH FOUR, that's it.  They were 11,12 and 13 back when it all started as baby goats, now some are 14 and 15.  Head to head does not count anymore and all contest and scores don't count before 2018.  ODP was head to head. Quakes for example: Top 4 GOATs + All 4 YNT Members +All 4 UCLA= *The best team ever assembled hands down except the Surf 04' team before DA because we always beat them too just like your saying*.  I never heard of your team.  The only team I ever heard of was De Anza.  I think we beat you guys anyways down here in a tournament.  Did you ever lose to a SoCal team Baller with your dd squad?  I honestly can't be 100% sure but I do remember we beat every NoCal team we played in the old days.  The top players were always there too so no excuses please.  Surf goats were not allowed to play up so our squad was 100% there ready to ball.  Ever hear of our coach back then?  Look him up some day.  It was "Dear In Headlight Moment" for those Quakes.  Before De Anza and your other goat teams that formed after the big shake up, it was the Surf GOATs 04' team and we spanked everyone.  Does it really matter now days how a GOAT team is actually formed anyways and by whom and for what? Freedom.  What I'm saying is, "we were before you were."  Is that cocky?  I hate all NoCal Sports Teams but I don't hate you or anyone up there personally.  I'm a sports junkie, that's it.  And based on your name you seem to like balling too.  No one could touch us before the great philosophy, trust me .  The team she was on before that was even better if you could believe that.  State Cup Champs baby!!!!   Fact already told everyone what happen and is still pissed off about it.  Reap what you sow some say and we sowed a National Championship and that's one accomplishment no one can take from her or all her teammates.  Last SoCal championship for our age group too.  Quakes got DA u15 this year.  Did you guys get anything?  I honestly don't know.


----------



## Justus

Some of you need to show some compassion.  Imagine anyone, a newbie, dad gone for three years or longer coming to the SoCal Forum for the first time and you see "Girls Development Academy." Based on some of my experiences in youth soccer the last 9 years, I hope you can appreciate my temptation to click on the thread.  Some great Topics there to scroll through.  Take a peak right now and look at them.  The one that jumped out at me and sucked me right in was this one.  I didn't start it either.


----------



## wc_baller

Justus said:


> Let me explain something to you Mr Baller (just playing I promise), yes I'm basically telling you if your not in the DA your dd is on the B team in NoCal.  If one of your kids can make the next list that comes out, I will personally donate $250 to any youth sports team of your choosing not named Quakes.  The only YNT List I'm referring is for 04s only to be clear.  I don't know about the 05s or 03s or the National Team List and I frankly don't care.  Only OH FOUR, that's it.  They were 11,12 and 13 back when it all started as baby goats, now some are 14 and 15.  Head to head does not count anymore and all contest and scores don't count before 2018.  ODP was head to head. Quakes for example: Top 4 GOATs + All 4 YNT Members +All 4 UCLA= *The best team ever assembled hands down except the Surf 04' team before DA because we always beat them too just like your saying*.  I never heard of your team.  The only team I ever heard of was De Anza.  I think we beat you guys anyways down here in a tournament.  Did you ever lose to a SoCal team Baller with your dd squad?  I honestly can't be 100% sure but I do remember we beat every NoCal team we played in the old days.  The top players were always there too so no excuses please.  Surf goats were not allowed to play up so our squad was 100% there ready to ball.  Ever hear of our coach back then?  Look him up some day.  It was "Dear In Headlight Moment" for those Quakes.  Before De Anza and your other goat teams that formed after the big shake up, it was the Surf GOATs 04' team and we spanked everyone.  Does it really matter now days how a GOAT team is actually formed anyways and by whom and for what? Freedom.  What I'm saying is, "we were before you were."  Is that cocky?  I hate all NoCal Sports Teams but I don't hate you or anyone up there personally.  I'm a sports junkie, that's it.  And based on your name you seem to like balling too.  No one could touch us before the great philosophy, trust me .  The team she was on before that was even better if you could believe that.  State Cup Champs baby!!!!   Fact already told everyone what happen and is still pissed off about it.  Reap what you sow some say and we sowed a National Championship and that's one accomplishment no one can take from her or all her teammates.  Last SoCal championship for our age group too.  Quakes got DA u15 this year.  Did you guys get anything?  I honestly don't know.


Man, your SD Surf goats got smoked by the Northern California B team in the Surf Cup final. Here’s a little video reminder, since you have a short memory: 




Haha. Keep rambling, my dude.


----------



## Justus

wc_baller said:


> Man, your SD Surf goats got smoked by the Northern California B team in the Surf Cup final. Here’s a little video reminder, since you have a short memory:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haha. Keep rambling, my dude.[/QUOT
> 
> 
> wc_baller said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man, your SD Surf goats got smoked by the Northern California B team in the Surf Cup final. Here’s a little video reminder, since you have a short memory:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haha. Keep rambling, my dude.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wc_baller said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man, your SD Surf goats got smoked by the Northern California B team in the Surf Cup final. Here’s a little video reminder, since you have a short memory:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haha. Keep rambling, my dude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok, you got me.  It that's that stupid EGSL thing we were all forced to do then whatever.  That was a stupid waste of time and you know it.  Sorry you had to make that drive or fly if you had too.  Right after Surf Cup too  We played Earthquakes too and that sucked because both teams were missing some goats so I never count this stuff but I guess you do and I stand corrected.  I have many videos sent from dads like you.  I appreciate it.  Anyway, I'm sure you guys won the big EGSL battle.  And your point is?
Click to expand...


----------



## wc_baller

Dude, it’s THE SURF CUP FINAL. Not an EGSL event. Quit making shit up, making excuses, and acting like your greatest team of all time before DA wasn’t trying to win THE SURF CUP FINAL.


----------



## Justus

wc_baller said:


> Man, your SD Surf goats got smoked by the Northern California B team in the Surf Cup final. Here’s a little video reminder, since you have a short memory:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haha. Keep rambling, my dude.


You know what bro, I stand corrected.  You guys should be #1.  I went through as fast as I can and I can tell from this game you guys are #1.  I'm sorry man.  I don't want to make excuses.  Just curious, how many YNT on your team?  Top 10 D1?  Thank for the video too


----------



## Justus

What was the final score, I forgot?  You guys were good, I remember.  I just was testing you bro.  You guys are getting screwed up there.  I hope it all works out for your baby goats up there.  Too bad no list members for you guys.  Maybe this year?


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> What was the final score, I forgot?  You guys were good, I remember.  I just was testing you bro.  You guys are getting screwed up there.  I hope it all works out for your baby goats up there.  Too bad no list members for you guys.  Maybe this year?


Just one excuse.  We were only in our 3rd month together as a GOAT team preparing for the National Championship.  So be easy on the mistakes too.  Some us were coming over from kickball and would get yelled at if we dribbled too much.  It was good but hard if you know what I mean Baller.


----------



## Justus

Based on video evidence I now need to change who #1 truly is in the nation for 04'  It's MLVA #1, Quakes #2 and then the rest. Baller, how did you guys do in ECNL this year?  Was it fun and competitive?  Did you ever get to play the Quakes this year?  Surf?


----------



## gotothebushes

Justus said:


> You know what bro, I stand corrected.  You guys should be #1.  I went through as fast as I can and I can tell from this game you guys are #1.  I'm sorry man.  I don't want to make excuses.  Just curious, how many YNT on your team?  Top 10 D1?  Thank for the video too


BOOM!!! Tried to tell you Mr. Justus!!


----------



## Justus

gotothebushes said:


> BOOM!!! Tried to tell you Mr. Justus!!


You guys got me.  Video proof is always good to have and Mr Baller has it.  "Deer in head light moment" for me for sure.  Egg on my face and a big talker I am.  One more correction too that I embellished a little.  Is wasn't CSUF that I got asked to redshirt, it was Fullerton JC.  I did ball with all those other guys and dreamed of playing in Euro ball and the B league adult league though


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> Sorry, I mean to say, "my dd got big time screwed over."  I got screwed over back in 85' when I walked on CSUF and  Garrido wanting me to red shirt.  He told me I could be the next Mickey Rivers.  However, I tried hard that hot summer to hit that damn curve ball with no luck.  I could see the writing on the wall.  He wanted me to be a scout player at best, maybe steal a base my SR year and shag fly balls all day and maybe throw some BP and ruin my arm.  I said no thanks and went straight to the gym and worked on my basketball skills and got really good.  I mean really good.  Reggie and Cherly would be there, Fryer from CDM, Tom Lewis, Leon Wood would come play some and a little Scottie Brooks now and then.  I was thinking maybe I could shoot them up in Europe with the likes of Kevin McGee from UCI.  However, when I would run with them I only worked on defense because well, they were a little better than me and I never, and I mean never, saw the rock to shoot and I wouldn't dare try either with my squad.  I soon realized I was a adult B league player play at best and that's it.  The A league guys were all ex pros and D1 only and they never passed.  B league, I was where I was needed and I was having fun.  I got the call up sometimes with the A team guys but I didn't have fun because, well, they were complete ball hogs and I wanted to go back to the glory days where I was the star attraction and that could only happen at B League Adult Men's team, not D1 college ball at UCLA which was my dream.   All my friends would mock me all the time when I was 11.


I didn't know everything I say would come back to bite my ass so I want to correct the record.  It was Fullerton JC, not CSUF that I was asked to redshirt.  Augie and CSUF sounded better so I went with it.  Reggie was never there and Cheryl I saw at Main Beach and she destroyed some dude and he was pissed. I'm old too guys and I can't remember every detail of my life.


----------



## Justus

wc_baller said:


> Dude, it’s THE SURF CUP FINAL. Not an EGSL event. Quit making shit up, making excuses, and acting like your greatest team of all time before DA wasn’t trying to win THE SURF CUP FINAL.


Actually Baller, I'm not letting you off that easy.  I got a PM just now (I promise the guy I wouldn't out him like some do on here) from someone from the Quakes side to tell me to ask you the following:  
1.  How many "guest goats" did your squad bring to Surf Cup 2016?  Be honest too.  Every out of state team does it.  Texas teams are the worst especially at Surf Cup.  
2. How many of your goats tried to get on the Quakes but the spots were fillerd already?  Not my questions, so don't get mad at me for those two.  3. My question is where were you guys for Far West Regionals in 2017?  You guys play gr8t soccer btw and I mean that sincerely.


----------



## gotothebushes

Justus said:


> I didn't know everything I say would come back to bite my ass so I want to correct the record.  It was Fullerton JC, not CSUF that I was asked to redshirt.  Augie and CSUF sounded better so I went with it.  Reggie was never there and Cheryl I saw at Main Beach and she destroyed some dude and he was pissed. I'm old too guys and I can't remember every detail of my life.


 Join the club Justus! We’re all old!!


----------



## Justus

I keep looking at the title of this thread and want it to end.  I'm thinking the conclusion for my part in all this will read something like this, 
"16 months of hard work and then Selection Sunday."  March Madness theme but more about September 2017.  I'm going to chill, look for a hug and come back later Sunday unless more breaking news hits the wire.  Let's all enjoy the weekend watching our kids play something.  No harm, no foul


----------



## wc_baller

Justus said:


> Actually Baller, I'm not letting you off that easy.  I got a PM just now (I promise the guy I wouldn't out him like some do on here) from someone from the Quakes side to tell me to ask you the following:
> 1.  How many "guest goats" did your squad bring to Surf Cup 2016?  Be honest too.  Every out of state team does it.  Texas teams are the worst especially at Surf Cup.
> 2. How many of your goats tried to get on the Quakes but the spots were fillerd already?  Not my questions, so don't get mad at me for those two.  3. My question is where were you guys for Far West Regionals in 2017?  You guys play gr8t soccer btw and I mean that sincerely.


1) Tell the “Quakes guy” that the team had one guest - goalie who played the second half. Also tell the Quakes guy, that he should’ve known that because they lost to that team 3-1 in the semifinal(they were DeAnza back then) a few hours earlier, and that he should be familiar with the roster since they played a half dozen times in the months before the Surf Cup
2) Zero as far as I know. Not sure many kids would want to try out for a team they beat 9 out of 10 times in year prior.
3) Northern California’s top clubs play in NPL, which has their own state cup, The NorCal Premier League state cup, which is not associated with the Far West Regionals. None of the top teams play the tournament that leads to the Far West, which is why you usually see a real weak Northern California tram at Far West, or the Northern California spot is conceded to another team from another region.


----------



## Justus

wc_baller said:


> 1) Tell the “Quakes guy” we had one guest - goalie who played the second half. Also tell the Quakes guy, that he should’ve known that because they lost to us 3-1 in the semifinal(they were DeAnza back then) a few hours earlier, and since he should be familiar with the roster since they played a half dozen times in the the months before the Surf Cup
> 2) Zero as far as I know. Not sure many kids would want to try out for a team they beat 9 out of 10 times in year prior.
> 3) Northern California’s top clubs play in NPL, which has their own state cup, The NorCal Premier League state cup, which is not associated with the Far West Regionals. None of the top teams play the tournament that leads to the Far West, which is why you usually see a real weak Northern California tram at Far West, or the Northern California spot is conceded to another team from another region.


So the Surf #11 National Championship they got was missing some teams your saying?  No Cal was somewhere else?  WTF happened to De Anza anyways?  If you guys were the cream at the top up there, how come they got the DA and your MVLA was shut out?  No YNT picks either, did that register yet and how do you and the team feel about that since it sounds like you guys are the ones doing all the spanking?  Did they get first dips because of the MLS connection?  Did MVLA at least apply?  I super, duper stand corrected and feel honored Baller.  I now remember you guys


----------



## Justus

wc_baller said:


> 1) Tell the “Quakes guy” that the team had one guest - goalie who played the second half. Also tell the Quakes guy, that he should’ve known that because they lost to that team 3-1 in the semifinal(they were DeAnza back then) a few hours earlier, and that he should be familiar with the roster since they played a half dozen times in the months before the Surf Cup
> 2) Zero as far as I know. Not sure many kids would want to try out for a team they beat 9 out of 10 times in year prior.
> 3) Northern California’s top clubs play in NPL, which has their own state cup, The NorCal Premier League state cup, which is not associated with the Far West Regionals. None of the top teams play the tournament that leads to the Far West, which is why you usually see a real weak Northern California tram at Far West, or the Northern California spot is conceded to another team from another region.


I don't want to pry into too much personal here, I'm really just curious.  How many D1 commits now for the team?  Why do you think no player from your squad made the list this time around?


----------



## gotothebushes

Justus said:


> What was the final score, I forgot?  You guys were good, I remember.  I just was testing you bro.  You guys are getting screwed up there.  I hope it all works out for your baby goats up there.  Too bad no list members for you guys.  Maybe this year?


----------



## gotothebushes

Justus said:


> Based on video evidence I now need to change who #1 truly is in the nation for 04'  It's MLVA #1, Quakes #2 and then the rest. Baller, how did you guys do in ECNL this year?  Was it fun and competitive?  Did you ever get to play the Quakes this year?  Surf?


Lost to FC Pride SC ECNL 1-2. Last time Quakes played MLVA was 2 years ago and MVLA won.


----------



## gotothebushes

Justus said:


> So the Surf #11 National Championship they got was missing some teams your saying?  No Cal was somewhere else?  WTF happened to De Anza anyways?  If you guys were the cream at the top up there, how come they got the DA and your MVLA was shut out?  No YNT picks either, did that register yet and how do you and the team feel about that since it sounds like you guys are the ones doing all the spanking?  Did they get first dips because of the MLS connection?  Did MVLA at least apply?  I super, duper stand corrected and feel honored Baller.  I now remember you guys


Quakes( DeAnza at the time) wanted DA. MVLA didn’t want DA ( But they did apply) at the time because they felt Ecnl was well establish and didn’t see why to change course. They have a couple of girls in YNT. MVLA is a huge club starting from the grass roots. Quakes got rid of there grass roots program.


----------



## Justus

gotothebushes said:


> View attachment 5347


I just woke from nightmares of Curry raining 3's on me (not the Lakers) in a pick up game at UCLA.  Magic was there too getting in a run with us.  It was horrible dream.  I met Magic the week b4 for the first time at one of his new businesses he started up in Inglewood (I do a little marketing on the side to make extra money to pay my bills).  I was bragging how gr8t of a player I was to Ervin.  After 5 minutes of listening to my big fish stories he invited me to play in one of the GOAT pick up games at Pauley. Curry showed up.  You know, the one no one believed in.  Well, Mr talker got his ass handed to him in the dream game.  It wasn't even close.  I wake up from the nightmare to get ready for VB tourney all day and that temptation to click to see if anyone responded got to me and low and behold it's you @gotothebushes, of all people   If it was 2-0, than my baby goat could not possibly have had the game of her life.  And if your team was not entered in the FWR, then I feel *might need to be next to #11* and I hate that but it seems fair right now.  I also heard a few teams from Texas were missing but let's just leave at that.  Too much truth can hurts sometimes.   The true #1 04' team is MLVA, and I can say most likely the last 3 years too.  That's a hard one to swallow but I believe in fairness and that can only happen on the field, not behind closed rooms IMO.  So again, you got me and I'm impressed with MLVA.  Can I get at least a do-over and try to get my story straight?  It was 3 years ago, just saying.  Enjoy the day with the kids and have fun up there and I hope my dd team can get a chance to try and play your team someday


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## Justus

gotothebushes said:


> Lost to FC Pride SC ECNL 1-2. Last time Quakes played MLVA was 2 years ago and MVLA won.


Where is Pride from and were they that good or was it bad day for MLVA?  I will be honest I'm a little bewildered with that lose, head scratcher, but things happen in soccer games that are crazy.  Quakes guy told me it's been years since you all played too.  He said two years ago is a stupid argument and you guys just chose wrong (assuming not going all in DA) and are all butt hurt now and will pay for it dearly being on the outside looking in.  I just told him to come clean and stop the nonsense.  New update ranking in my rankings go like this:  MLVA #1 (100.0)  When I say 100, you get all the first place votes so I'm clear.  Quakes (50.0) #2 based on the 4 YNT, DA *National Championship and all going to UCLA.  A tie for 3rd for all the rest in SoCal.  Someone in SoCal needs to claim #1 status so I can get them to #3 in the nation quickly.  Maybe Heat FC has room for arguing #3.  Are the Michigan Hawks all that or just name only?  How about the tophat team in GA?  Texas any good or are they all split up too?


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## futboldad1

Justus said:


> Where is Pride from and were they that good or was it bad day for MLVA?  I will be honest I'm a little bewildered with that lose, head scratcher, but things happen in soccer games that are crazy.  Quakes guy told me it's been years since you all played too.  He said two years ago is a stupid argument and you guys just chose wrong (assuming not going all in DA) and are all butt hurt now and will pay for it dearly being on the outside looking in.  I just told him to come clean and stop the nonsense.  New update ranking in my rankings go like this:  MLVA #1 (100.0)  When I say 100, you get all the first place votes so I'm clear.  Quakes (50.0) #2 based on the 4 YNT, DA *National Championship and all going to UCLA.  A tie for 3rd for all the rest in SoCal.  Someone in SoCal needs to claim #1 status so I can get them to #3 in the nation quickly.  Maybe Heat FC has room for arguing #3.  Are the Michigan Hawks all that or just name only?  How about the tophat team in GA?  Texas any good or are they all split up too?


Heat's 05 are very strong but their 04 team didn't get a win or out of bracket play in national playoffs. Glad you've awoken to MVLAs 04s, they are great


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## Justus

futboldad1 said:


> Heat's 05 are very strong but their 04 team didn't get a win or out of bracket play in national playoffs. Glad you've awoken to MVLAs 04s, they are great


I'm a cocky SoCal sports baby and I got my ass spanked last night big time just like the Lakers the last 15 years or so.  I know when to shut my mouth, trust me


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## Justus

Let’s go back to memory lane shall we.  Kind of like “Oldies but Goodies” from the past, like two months ago when I first stumbled on the SoCal Soccer Forum as my evil twin sister, @Ellejustus.  Then Luis came along and I get folks thinking he’s me or at least were in some room together.  I had to drop Elle because she’s the one I’m here for if that makes any sense to you.  Anyway, the parent 100% responsible, and I’m assuming the father, because no good mom would start this toxic thread is the Parent in Vegas.  You can it end this now and save me embarrassment and shame.   We all need a do-over sometimse in life and I’m personally asking for one for me and my goat.  Some would say a Mulligan or a second chance and, in my case, 8 chances.  My best friend from 1st grade says I remind him of a cat because I always seem to land on my feet.  So please Mr Vegas Parent, end the thread for God’s sacks.  I have a split personality, mental case who tells so many fish stories my son couldn’t wait to get out of the house because that’s all I do.  I don’t want my dd to be blacklisted either.  Your help in this matter would be much appreciated from this dad and many others I believe on the SoCal Soccer Forum for all to read and I’m frankly embarrassed of how far this has gotten out of hand.  So do us all a favor and put a folk in it, now!!!!!!


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## Justus

Old quotes before EJ came on to the SoCal Soccer Forum sometime in early July 2019.  Let's start with the first one shall we.  Remember, I have three years left before I go up to the Big League section on this forum

*“I thought this was interesting. Full interview in the link.”  
*
My first stumble to SoccerAmerica, no joke and no fish story I promise.  It was all soccernation.  Since 1971 too and I never heard of it before until I got here.  So I think SA should say TY to the Parent in Vegas.  TY from me too for guiding to the right place.


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## Justus

This one really got me involved
*
SA: You may not continue fielding teams in both the Girls DA and the ECNL?*

*LORNE DONALDSON*: "The ECNL wanted us to get out of [the Development Academy]" *(You think.  A Team only Lorne). * "There are some clubs already out of the ECNL. They have been kicked out."  *(oh really, please enlighten us with that list)*

Sounds so harsh LD.  I don't buy it and I'm certainly not feeling sorry for you and your club.  You were asked to make a decision like many of us have to everyday in life and you had two choices to make. Sign A or Sign B.  The problem Lorne is you wanted 2 A Teams, yes two, dos "A" Teams.  No one has two A teams except Walid and the Blues and those deals got done early on so it is what is.  Plus, it's SoCal and we usually get what we want first. Blues won so I don't I have any problem with them having two A Teams and they used to win everything and they deserve it too.  Pick one or the other and live with that decision.  Don't say "Kicked out."  I think my kid got kicked out of the DA because of HS Soccer participation.  Could you imagine that LD?  MP would have none of that either.  Thank God she left.  She loved HS Soccer.  I'm sure a check will be coming soon for reward of MP.  Like many have said here, we have choices to make and you made yours.


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## Justus

And let's not forget our Sage advice from our great Elders

*“Yes, everyone has free choice, but in the encircling regime if a player is not in the DA program early the doors may be found to be closed when he or she is older and really ready for it.” *

*“It's a power play and you are just saying it in a nice way” 
“Such a sad strategy”  
“Wow I agree with you on something completely. Let check to see if any pigs are flying outside today....”* This is my favorite warning of all but I had no clue would he was saying until recently


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## Justus

and let's not forget the early Blues supporters who triggered me so much I'm still here after saying, "I'm out."

*“Just curious, how does the Blues decide which team will be the top tea in an age group?” *

*“Do they let players pick which league they want to play on and then the top team is organically made or do they assign players to a certain team?”*

*“Most stronger players and parents have been brainwashed into thinking DA is the only means for kiddos to be recruited.” (guess who) and if you mean the YNT team I agree with you...…...*

*“My dd is going to find out 12 months from now. I don't think kids get brainwashed as much as the parents do. As a parent it's hard to walk away from watching your dd play at the highest levels in SoCal the past 7 years.” * *EJ’s first post in 3 years and I can see how it came across as a little cocky*

*“Doesn’t every family have the option to make their own decisions? Parents get so wrapped up with leagues, trophies to the point they jump teams year after year buying what Coaches and Clubs are selling. We all know the rules of the game and should play accordingly.”* *(Guess who) The problem with this quote is finding out the rules are not the same for everyone playing and reward money is out there and no can seem to find it where it is.  Latinos?  *

*I know of plenty of girls still entering the DA program as ‘03’s and ‘04’s that are making impacts. If the player has the ability, the doors are open.” * *Oh really, show me the pigs flying in the air too….*

* “Well said....let the kids decide what they want to do, the cream will rise to the top. Always does, always will.” * *Ya, after two years I see where all the cream is pal, over at the DA in safe hands.  Just got to find the missing reward or as some say "bonus money" for developing the National Team members.  The one's who said "no TY" are drinking their coffee black and still looking for some cream and that sucks!!!  *


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## Justus

Breaking news......
My dd VB tourney was a combo A and B team today which means most likely she watches from the sidelines so she decided to rest her body to try and pull off a miracle against the Heat in Vegas next weekend.  Please let me see the video of the game b4 you release it.  TY


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## Justus

futboldad1 said:


> Heat's 05 are very strong but their 04 team didn't get a win or out of bracket play in national playoffs. Glad you've awoken to MVLAs 04s, they are great


So who is #1 in Vegas then for 04?  Albion DA?  Heat or LVSA?  I took Players out of the discussion because I have never heard of that team until a week ago.  I got a few more PMs saying its LVSA but I don't know who to believe now.  Just 05 Heat then?  You have to win the big one to help with #1 claims IMO.  Should be first tie breaker, not head to head IMHO


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## Justus

futboldad1 said:


> Heat's 05 are very strong but their 04 team didn't get a win or out of bracket play in national playoffs. Glad you've awoken to MVLAs 04s, they are great


Hey Futboldad1, how did MVLA lose to the Pride FC at ECNL National Championship?  Where is Pride from?  I got a PM from someone claiming something too from his corner but I think he is a troll.  He does have a point that his squad could be #1 in the nation for 04s since you beat both Quakes and Surf two years ago and they beat this MVLA Barcelona team 10 miles from the Quakes head quarters 3 months ago in the big game.  Any thoughts on that?


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## Justus

More from the Sages...…...

*“sure glad that my player played ECNL when it was clearly the top league with most of the top players and teams*.”  *Real competition is what this quote is all about...….*

*"I will tell you that for my player, playing for her high school team for 4 years has been just as important for her success in college as playing ECNL/ODP/YNT was for her. Your player will be playing with and against players that are up to 5 years older than them. That matters.....” I couldn't agree more than ever with this quote*

*“Agreed -- US Soccer should have worked with ECNL on some training and development initiatives, then created perhaps 20 Girls DA progam's nationwide. Arrange for it to be fully funded (except travel, which would still be selectively funded by needs based scholarships). I have previously outlined how these teams could find competition, provided US Soccer is willing to actually think outside the "league", reciprocate and play nice with others.” 100% agree*


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## wc_baller

Justus said:


> Hey Futboldad1, how did MVLA lose to the Pride FC at ECNL National Championship?  Where is Pride from?  I got a PM from someone claiming something too from his corner but I think he is a troll.  He does have a point that his squad could be #1 in the nation for 04s since you beat both Quakes and Surf two years ago and they beat this MVLA Barcelona team 10 miles from the Quakes head quarters 3 months ago in the big game.  Any thoughts on that?


That guy claiming to be from Pride and that they are the best team in the country is trolling you. Wherever the information is coming from that has Pride  beating MVLA, is incorrect. MVLA beat pride 7-1 in Virginia.
The other Quakes guy PMing you to ask stupid questions is trolling you too.  If he were really associated with them he’d already know the answers to those questions.
If they were real, they’d comment themselves on this thread.


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## Justus

*Over the top quotes...….*

*“My kid plays DA and we have friends on DA at every club in OC."  Cool to know*

*"They have reported to me," Ok*

*"because we talk about our kids’ happiness" So do some us

"I know shocking in the dog eat dog world we all live in" No it's not*

* "and the sentiment is that the girls are comfortable workouts DA." Yes we know, way too comfortable and a true competitor should never be comfortable.  Needs to always look over her shoulder for next goat to take her spot.  That's how pure cream is made, ask the McDonald brothers in San Bernardino how real milk shakes are made, with real ice cream.  Not the stuff they serve now.  Yuk!!!!*

*"I have known kids who played HS for a year and left for DA. " "I’m sure it happened.”  Heading into season #3 so names please of only the High School.  The high school should be considered for such a strong statement and if they were going to start Varsity as a Freshman.  Key facts to consider.  If your talking about the Fr team that plays across at the middle school field then I completely understand why HS Soccer socks.  *

* "They made a choice"  Yes we did

“Nah. HS is a shit show. My kid has seen it and doesn’t want near it.”  What high school please?  Varsity?*

*"Is there a reason you want ECNL to go away?  Great question*

*"Who said I want ECNL to go away?  There so much whining about HS and DA forbidding it."  I know, that's what got me more interested.  I didn't start all this...….
"Most girls who play DA don’t care."  ok *

*
"For kids who want HS and a high level of soccer, there’s ECNL. It’s actually a pretty good set of choices between the DA and ECNL. If you’re in SoCal you have great options."  Options?  *

*“Who said I want ECNL to go away? There’s so much whining about HS and DA forbidding it."  Just a little*


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## Justus

wc_baller said:


> That guy claiming to be from Pride and that they are the best team in the country is trolling you. Wherever the information is coming from that has Pride  beating MVLA, is incorrect. MVLA beat pride 7-1 in Virginia.
> The other Quakes guy PMing you to ask stupid questions is trolling you too.  If he were really associated with them he’d already know the answers to those questions.
> If they were real, they’d comment themselves on this thread.


Who won ECNL u15 Champions this year?  I can't find it and I'm assuming it's your squad.  I'm obviously getting trolled.  You seem legit though


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## LASTMAN14

Justus said:


> Who won ECNL u15 Champions this year?  I can't find it and I'm assuming it's your squad.  I'm obviously getting trolled.  You seem legit though


Bushman is legit.


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## Justus

LASTMAN14 said:


> Bushman is legit.


I know you are


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## Justus

LASTMAN14 said:


> Bushman is legit.


It's hard getting trolled.  Inbox PM is getting out of control with fakers.  I had it coming so I will eat my medicine and try and separate the "Sheep from the Goats" like one old Philosopher told us ALL to do or, "Don't give your pearls to swine."  I'm just hear looking for the goats...….


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## Justus

I didn't ask this question but I think it cause me to get a little, lets say too competitive and I hope all is forgiven and small amount of empathy if possible, but not required from all the dads. 

_“Can you explain the waiver? Genuinely curious.”  _*So was I*

"Students at private schools can still play HS, since not playing may have an effect on their admission and/or tuition rate" *There you go*

I'm glad the kiddos got some help with the tuition rate.  It's America and that's how some folks roll.  Can anyone from Vegas or Norcal confirm at least one Private School waiver to help player do both?  Anyone, please.  Thanks.  Also, when Kicker brings his info from OH and Michigan to the group here he can make sure to find out how many waivers all the DA Clubs asked for in OH and MI.  You told us you were more prepared to answer everything outside of SoCal since you have lived everywhere I haven't.  I went a head as a nice dad to get NoCal and Vegas in the discussion so its your turn to do some work and gather the info so we can all look at it too.  Non of us really care about it but it would be helpful.  Just those two and that's it.


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## shales1002

futboldad1 said:


> Heat's 05 are very strong but their 04 team didn't get a win or out of bracket play in national playoffs. Glad you've awoken to MVLAs 04s, they are great


Please revisit the results ... 04’s only lost the last match of National Playoffs. Unfortunately a couple of key players were injured during the run. Mad props to the 04 age group as a hole. It’s stacked! 05s are solid group of girls too.


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## futboldad1

shales1002 said:


> Please revisit the results ... 04’s only lost the last match of National Playoffs. Unfortunately a couple of key players were injured during the run. Mad props to the 04 age group as a hole. It’s stacked! 05s are solid group of girls too.


My bad. They did win a match but they got bounced in bracket play. 05s made it to the National semi finals in Virginia. Remember the 05s were U14 and the 04s were U15 as this is for last season. https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=960

Just to be clear I do not mean any disrespect to the Heat 04s, I'm sure they're a talented group.


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## Justus

shales1002 said:


> Please revisit the results ... 04’s only lost the last match of National Playoffs. Unfortunately a couple of key players were injured during the run. Mad props to the 04 age group as a hole. It’s stacked! 05s are solid group of girls too.


04s and 05s are the future goats 100%.  I wanted to bring up to Baller we were missing a few too back at Surf Cup in 2016 but it sounds like sour crapes.  Plus he had video so I got caught red handed.  Let's all have a do over and crown Quakes #1, Surf #2 , Real CO #3, The Tophat #4, Legends FC (Big Hual of goats in 2017 and the fist time you never heard JH get pissed that some other club snatched his goats.  This year he got to do the poaching and I'm sure it gave him gr8t joy too, let me tell you) and then South Bay Beach #5, MLVA #6, Walid's two teams are tied at #7 and #8 respectfully, The Heat #9 and to round out the Top 10, Strikers FC.  Other votes:  Blues two A Teams.  Guys, we need to stay humble and find away to play these chickens and at this point I can't think of a better word at this stage in this ECNL vs DA War.  I have lots to say and share with everyone but we need facts.  What the hell is a Troll?  Is that spam?  Virus?  Trickster?  Asshole?


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## Justus

futboldad1 said:


> My bad. They did win a match but they got bounced in bracket play. 05s made it to the National semi finals in Virginia. Remember the 05s were U14 and the 04s were U15 as this is for last season. https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=960
> 
> Just to be clear I do not mean any disrespect to the Heat 04s, I'm sure they're a talented group.


It all good.  We should stick to want maters, who is #1 and when can we play them.  Not rocket science fellas


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## futboldad1

Justus said:


> Who won ECNL u15 Champions this year?  I can't find it and I'm assuming it's your squad.  I'm obviously getting trolled.  You seem legit though


PDA won for 05s beating LAFC Slammers 3-2. For 04s it seems to be mis-entered so I'm not sure. https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=1365


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## futboldad1

Justus said:


> 04s and 05s are the future goats 100%.  I wanted to bring up to Baller we were missing a few too back at Surf Cup in 2016 but it sounds like sour crapes.  Plus he had video so I got caught red handed.  Let's all have a do over and crown Quakes #1, Surf #2 , Real CO #3, The Tophat #4, Legends FC (Big Hual of goats in 2017 and the fist time you never heard JH get pissed that some other club snatched his goats.  This year he got to do the poaching and I'm sure it gave him gr8t joy too, let me tell you) and then South Bay Beach #5, MLVA #6, Walid's two teams are tied at #7 and #8 respectfully, The Heat #9 and to round out the Top 10, Strikers FC.  Other votes:  Blues two A Teams.  Guys, we need to stay humble and find away to play these chickens and at this point I can't think of a better word at this stage in this ECNL vs DA War.  I have lots to say and share with everyone but we need facts.  What the hell is a Troll?  Is that spam?  Virus?  Trickster?  Asshole?


MVLA 04s are definitely better than #6, I'd put them at #1.


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## Justus

futboldad1 said:


> PDA won for 05s beating LAFC Slamers 3-2. For 04s it seems to be misenetered so I'm not sure. https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=960


I more confused than ever.  This is a mess folks.


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## futboldad1

Justus said:


> I more confused than ever.  This is a mess folks.


04s 2018/19 results:  GSA 2-0 PDA in national championship game. 

In semis GSA beat MVLA 2-1.

Source https://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2019/07/17/ecnl-national-champions-crowned-for-18-19-season/


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## futboldad1

Justus said:


> 04s and 05s are the future goats 100%.  I wanted to bring up to Baller we were missing a few too back at Surf Cup in 2016 but it sounds like sour crapes.  Plus he had video so I got caught red handed.  Let's all have a do over and crown Quakes #1, Surf #2 , Real CO #3, The Tophat #4, Legends FC (Big Hual of goats in 2017 and the fist time you never heard JH get pissed that some other club snatched his goats.  This year he got to do the poaching and I'm sure it gave him gr8t joy too, let me tell you) and then South Bay Beach #5, MLVA #6, Walid's two teams are tied at #7 and #8 respectfully, The Heat #9 and to round out the Top 10, Strikers FC.  Other votes:  Blues two A Teams.  Guys, we need to stay humble and find away to play these chickens and at this point I can't think of a better word at this stage in this ECNL vs DA War.  I have lots to say and share with everyone but we need facts.  What the hell is a Troll?  Is that spam?  Virus?  Trickster?  Asshole?


MVLA ECNL 04s beat Legends 04 DA team 6-1 just six weeks ago.........


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## Justus

futboldad1 said:


> MVLA 04s are definitely better than #6, I'd put them at #1.


Not according to the DA so we need to look outside trying to get into the party somehow.  Feel locked out? My dd does and so do I.  If things don't change soon, we need to set up our own tournament in Vegas and get the top 16 together without the DA knowing.  Kicker will have to make up for his outing me on my PMing him,  He will never back down to a GOAT challenge,  March Madness seems like a good time in Vegas. If you don't show up with your team you get zero votes and I certainly don't want to hear how the Quakes have 4 goats at the TC and can't come.  I already know Mr Lavers wants it. How long do you all want to wait on the DA to let us know when we can play the other goats who seem to be very comfortable with other goats who start 25% of the time.  Huge payouts ($$$$$) are missing at Walid's two teams and Lorne at Real Co got squat for all the hard work they did for MP.  Walid is super pissed and I think we should be more pissed then him personally. No more 90 minutes for special goats looking to not work for that.  No more "I play the 10 or else (attacking CM player ), I can never come out player, ever, and YNT scouts sitting in chairs watching is a must. Sound like a challenge? My dd is getting straight A's except for stupid Algebra.  Now that's amental challenge I remember and I can't argue with her.  Damn, if we could find away to rid us all of the worse subject in HS to discourage most girls, its that class.  Teach how to watch out for bad dudes who lie when they talk and this vaping shit.  Algebra could be the gateway folks to Vaping.  I think that Mr. Kocks  grandson invented this shit in his garage with the synthetic poison he put in the shake.  I want a real milk shake and real soccer and it's next to impossible to find that these days in SoCal.


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## Justus

futboldad1 said:


> 04s 2018/19 results:  GSA 2-0 PDA in national championship game.
> 
> In semis GSA beat MVLA 2-1.
> 
> Source https://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/2019/07/17/ecnl-national-champions-crowned-for-18-19-season/


I'm getting so played I don't know who the hell to believe.  I tried to research this myself and I can't even find this.  I think DA has a  way better marks for getting all the stats though.


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## futboldad1

Justus said:


> I'm getting so played I don't know who the hell to believe.  I tried to research this myself and I can't even find this.  I think DA has a  way better marks for getting all the stats though.


Everything I've said I've linked a results page to.

For the above where I forgot, here you go: https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=989

My 06 plays DA. My 05 is semi-retired lol. Fort he record ECNL and DA both have great teams, players and coaches, above average players teams and coaches, and below average players teams and coaches. But you need to be in one of them in the current diluted climate to get competitive games and get your DD seen.


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## Justus

futboldad1 said:


> Everneeds to speak up and dything I've said I've linked a results page to.
> 
> For the above where I forgot, here you go: https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=989


Baller needs to come on here and explain how his team is #1 when they don't win ECNL.  That is Simple.  One of Walid's A teams made the final which scares me some.  Maybe one of his teams are #1?  Guys, I will find out sooner or later with my eyes.  You can't claim #1 without the hardware fellas.  That's like Boston beating the Warriors twice in the regular season so were #1.  However, you lost in Semi's to the Greek God and the Warriors won NBA championship.  Who is #1 truly?


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## MR.D

MVLA is #1


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## Justus

Justus said:


> Baller needs to come on here and explain how his team is #1 when they don't win ECNL.  That is Simple.  One of Walid's A teams made the final which scares me some.  Maybe one of his teams are #1?  Guys, I will find out sooner or later with my eyes.  You can't claim #1 without the hardware fellas.  That's like Boston beating the Warriors twice in the regular season so were #1.  However, you lost in Semi's to the Greek God and the Warriors won NBA championship.  Who is #1 truly?


Plus, my bro from UCLA said they were missing some goats and so were the old Surf 04 team in the summer of 2016.  Those two loses are wiped clean from the books since we got more clarification on the goats.  Plus Mr Baller, bringing a goat guest GK is not fair.  It's called guesting.  1/2 a player or 5 is all the same according to this @MARsSPEED dad.  So either it's 100% all development players that come play like South Bay Beach does.  No recruiting over there.  No sir, not down in the South Bay where you can "go see Cal anytime you want."  I heard his boy took over that car dealership.  San Pedro is now offering one way tickets to Jones Island.  All the Koolaid you can dink on the way too.  We should all be very pleased with our decisions.  I know how tempting looking at that other grass that looks so green with all the cream.  Time is on our side fellas, don't forget that


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## Justus

MR.D said:


> MVLA is #1


Ok wise guy, please give your take on why  "MLVA #1" like Baller did to me.


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## Justus

Mr Jones, I need more than hiding behind fingers.  I have one for you right now but it's not an option.  Come on troll, lay out your argument how great is at OC Surf and being a part of the DA in OC and how horrible HS Soccer is at your dds school.  None of us are complaining about ECNL except to say the DA goats don't want to play us in NV and Nocal.  SoCal is not where it needs to be and were going to pay a big price.  For me and a few other oc dads, its called losing to the other teams in Nocal and Vegas.  SoCal is watered down so others can...………..?  and without at the selling point we will never be in the finals with 04' team, ever.  Thanks Mr Jones and your buddies that run a way from a fair competition to get to the Real Cream...…...


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## Justus

futboldad1 said:


> MVLA ECNL 04s beat Legends 04 DA team 6-1 just six weeks ago.........


I believe that a little but I need to see box scores but very impressive if true.


----------



## Justus

futboldad1 said:


> Everything I've said I've linked a results page to.
> 
> For the above where I forgot, here you go: https://tgs.totalglobalsports.com/public/master.aspx?eid=989
> 
> My 06 plays DA. My 05 is semi-retired lol. Fort he record ECNL and DA both have great teams, players and coaches, above average players teams and coaches, and below average players teams and coaches. But you need to be in one of them in the current diluted climate to get competitive games and get your DD seen.


Excellent points.  I agree btw


----------



## Justus

I have to leave for a few.  To all of the NoCal dads and Vegas dads not named Mr. Quakes or Mr. Albion.  Word from a very reliable source is the   DA is feeling some pressure and might allow a group of ECNL all star 04' goats take on the top Quakes team with all their 04 recruits and YNT players in June next year in SD DA/ECNL Playoff Month at Surf Sports Compound.  This is not a fish story.  I say hell no, my dd would be embarrassed and not attend that crap. Two best 04' teams from each league is our only demand  for ultimate supremacy of a true National Champions Cup and nothing less.  And if that youth director lady from the Netherlands says no, and says stuff like, "you guys just care about winning." I will take her to Normandie beach and bring the English guy with her and tell her this:  This is America where want to win always and we do, except with the men in soccer. The girls have been doing just find until you came along. We came over to Euro in 1941 to help fix a problem none of you could fix alone.  You have ruined our youth soccer sport with your stupid, anti HS School and anti Latino crap once and for all.  We need change now!!!!


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> Mr Jones, I need more than hiding behind fingers.  I have one for you right now but it's not an option.  Come on troll, lay out your argument how great is at OC Surf and being a part of the DA in OC and how horrible HS Soccer is at your dds school.  None of us are complaining about ECNL except to say the DA goats don't want to play us in NV and Nocal.  SoCal is not where it needs to be and were going to pay a big price.  For me and a few other oc dads, its called losing to the other teams in Nocal and Vegas.  SoCal is watered down so others can...………..?  and without at the selling point we will never be in the finals with 04' team, ever.  Thanks Mr Jones and your buddies that run a way from a fair competition to get to the Real Cream...…...


I need to say sorry to you Mr Jones.  I actually love USC football.  My mom went there way back in 1938.  She went to LA High too.  Her husband went to USC as well and was a stud.  He passed away before I came on the scene.  My brother played water polo at UCLA and was a stud.  So I like whoever is winning and that is the worst to most of my friends.  However, if UCLA is going for any kind of championship I will always root for them 1st.  Lakers better do something or I will 100% root for the Clippers.  Steelers always but I like the Rams a little and a little Rivers.  Las Vegas Raiders sounds good but Steelers 1st unless we lose to NE so bad I'm already looking around.  Horrible, I know.  Angels 1st but can always go for the boys in Blue.  Kings then Ducks.  I like LAFC, weird but I'm not  a huge fan of the Galaxy.  It might be because my dd has played their teams so much or versions of them and and I see them working out everywhere at The Great Park.  I love sports everyone and so does my kid.  UCLA is o-2 so when SDSU spanked us I was happy for my son and oh well, try again next year.  I'm out for now.


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> I need to say sorry to you Mr Jones.  I actually love USC football.  My mom went there way back in 1938.  She went to LA High too.  Her husband went to USC as well and was a stud.  He passed away before I came on the scene.  My brother played water polo at UCLA and was a stud.  So I like whoever is winning and that is the worst to most of my friends.  However, if UCLA is going for any kind of championship I will always root for them 1st.  Lakers better do something or I will 100% root for the Clippers.  Steelers always but I like the Rams a little and a little Rivers.  Las Vegas Raiders sounds good but Steelers 1st unless we lose to NE so bad I'm already looking around.  Horrible, I know.  Angels 1st but can always go for the boys in Blue.  Kings then Ducks.  I like LAFC, weird but I'm not  a huge fan of the Galaxy.  It might be because my dd has played their teams so much or versions of them and and I see them working out everywhere at The Great Park.  I love sports everyone and so does my kid.  UCLA is o-2 so when SDSU spanked us I was happy for my son and oh well, try again next year.  I'm out for now.


UCLA is losing 7-34 at the half so we will be 0-3.  Long season.  Plus SC lost.  Now I go Pac 12 unless USC can make a last minute run.  If the Pac 12 misses semis again then I will 100% go for any non power 5 long shot.  That's how I play college football.  If the finals are any combo of a power 5 not named Pac 12 I will not watch.


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> UCLA is losing 7-34 at the half so we will be 0-3.  Long season.  Plus SC lost.  Now I go Pac 12 unless USC can make a last minute run.  If the Pac 12 misses semis again then I will 100% go for any non power 5 long shot.  That's how I play college football.  If the finals are any combo of a power 5 not named Pac 12 I will not watch.


I don't root for anything DA right now.  ECNL all in baby.  Love all the other leagues too.  I am 100% done for a long time.  I'm out


----------



## Justus

Justus said:


> I have to leave for a few.  To all of the NoCal dads and Vegas dads not named Mr. Quakes or Mr. Albion.  Word from a very reliable source is the   DA is feeling some pressure and might allow a group of ECNL all star 04' goats take on the top Quakes team with all their 04 recruits and YNT players in June next year in SD DA/ECNL Playoff Month at Surf Sports Compound.  This is not a fish story.  *I say hell no, my dd would be embarrassed and not attend that crap.* Two best 04' teams from each league is our only demand  for ultimate supremacy of a true National Champions Cup and nothing less.  And if that youth director lady from the Netherlands says no, and says stuff like, "you guys just care about winning." I will take her to Normandie beach and bring the English guy with her and tell her this:  This is America where want to win always and we do, except with the men in soccer. The girls have been doing just find until you came along. We came over to Euro in 1941 to help fix a problem none of you could fix alone.  You have ruined our youth soccer sport with your stupid, anti HS School and anti Latino crap once and for all.  We need change now!!!!


Last correction of the night and you will not hear a peep from me until next week.  100%. * I was arrogant* to write the above that's in Red.  I'm dreaming and assuming she would be invited and it reads very arrogant when I read back to myself.  Good night all


----------



## Justus

Own Goal said:


> I don’t know about Vegas teams for younger girls, but For older girl LVSA (non DA or ECNL) is much stronger than DA or ECNL options in Las Vegas - at least for U16 and U17. In SoCal there are a handful of non DA and non ECNL teams in the older ages that are competitive against their  DA and ECNL counterparts. Hoping these 02s and 03s (and probably some 04s) who are at that same level but who’ve opted not to play DA or ECNL can get past all this madness and finish out their club careers unscathed.


I need to say sorry to you Own Goal.  I took "stronger" as "better than" when you were saying "better options."  Bushman told me to go back and read and I'm doing that.  Sorry for being a jerk.  Please forgive me


----------



## Soccer43

I think Dominic needs to change the name of this forum to the Justus Show


----------



## Dos Equis

General rule when online forum posting --  if you have more than two consecutive posts without a response, you are talking to yourself.  Best to take that conversation private, and keep it in your head.


----------



## Justus

Soccer43 said:


> I think Dominic needs to change the name of this forum to the Justus Show


Actually, no need for that.  My "show" is officially over at the Fabulous Forum.  I will leave you with a few "chickisms."  Imagine him calling Youth Soccer games for 40 years and what his "chickisms" would be for this circus.  Sorry but Jim Rome is right.  This can't be a sport although for the last 9 years I dreamed it was.  Enjoy the game of soccer folks. 

Boo birds
Fans who boo their own team when they play badly.

Camping in the lane
A player who spends a lot of time in the lane without getting called for a three-second violation.  Now we know why the 3 point play was invented. I hated playing 3 x 3 and the big 6 4' dude with a belly wins all the time.  Parks his big butt under the paint.  I slapped him hard many times and he hated me too.  Always brag and then head over to the bench to drink his 12 pac.  

Caught with his hand in the cookie jar
Reaching in, got called for a foul. 

Cosmetic Call
Also called a Makeup call, a questionable call by the referee to even out a previous questionable call that went the other way.

Defense on vacation
Very bad defense, as if they weren't even there.

Garbage time
The remainder of the game, after it's in the refrigerator.

The) good lord and four disciples couldn't beat the Lakers tonight.

He could be defender of the year - if everyone else dies.


if there's really 18,000 here tonight, a lot of them are dressed like seats.
When the attendance is announced, but a lot of the fans have stayed home.

Nervous time
When the game's in the pressure cooker

Swallows the Whistle
The ref doesn't make an obvious call (No harm, no foul).

Next time he should bring his luggage
When an obvious traveling violation is called and then argued by the violator.

Picked his pocket
A steal so quick the victim didn't even see it happen.

The game's in the) Refrigerator
(the door's closed, the light's out, the eggs are cooling, the butter's getting hard, and the jello's jiggling)
The game is out of reach. (Sometimes says The game's in the Admiral.)

Throws up a prayer ... (it's answered!!!)
A wild shot that will need a miracle to score... (it goes in!!)


----------



## Justus

In other news from soccer outside of SoCal...…...

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/83628/phoenix-declared-winner-of-20th-straight-game-afte.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headline&utm_campaign=22249&hashid=HgQcUF3AUkQhka4F2net6MXz-ic
I saw this and I thought this Phoenix was in Italy or somewhere over there.  I thought this stuff only happened in England.  Hello, $1 beer night.  Butt of course beer will be blamed again just like Mr Gun and Mr Money. I will say I hate guns and only want the right people to have them for the record.  Which league is this anyways?  I'm so confused with this pro sport.  Please don't tell me this is the same league over at The Great Park?  Parent in Vegas, do it now.  End this toxic negativity now!!!!.  We need positive news.  Someone please start a positive thread on the positive stories in youth soccer.  I will stay positive 100%, I promise.  I did NOT start this thread!!!!


----------



## Justus

*Quotes*

“Regardless once sub out you can’t go back in the game.”
“This player came in the game with 12 minutes remaining in a showcase.”

“After the pregame warm up you sit for 68 minutes!”
“How is that fair at a showcase?”

“Some kids played 20 minutes in 3 games”
“North Carolina was 30 degrees and CO 29 degrees”

 “that's a long way to travel to not play as it is a showcase.”
“That is so wrong!”

“Why would parents subject their DD to that mental anguish?”

“players need to get the time in to showcase.”

*The answer from some coaches*

“All players need to learn what it’s like to come off the bench in college or sit and watch.  I know your in 7th grade but you will be sitting, so get used to it.”

“Coaches need to see you sit still and smile and don’t you dare pout about it, everyone is watching, especially The World”

“Coaches need to see how you take it when I take you out 5 minutes before the half is over and you know your done for the day and have to wait two more days to watch the next one on the bench because its your turn to sit out a whole game.  I will even use that to make you work harder at practice as a threat." 

*From others:*

“don’t complain about it.  Coaches don’t want to hear your complaints especially the scouts.  Wait until you get to college”

Or my favorite of all

“I was there and don’t disagree with your concern, just know that there is often more than meets the eye.”

*Can you find out how much more because my eyes are burning with story after story.  Look at all the rosters and how who played and who didn't.  You don't't even have to be there to know.....  Lots of girls sitting.  
Now girls who don't play a lot are getting arthritis early in the knees for sitting on long, long plane rides and just as long, long car rides all over the Southwest.  Very hard on the knees on anyone *


----------



## Justus

"The MEN brought a *woman* who had been *caught in adultery*; and making her stand before all of them,  The men said to the philosopher, "Teacher, this *woman* was *caught* in the very act of committing *adultery*. Now in the law (at the time) commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?"  

Did anyone here ever ask yourself how come the *man* who was her didn't have to stand before them too?  How come it's just the girl? Assholes made her stand in front of the philosopher, naked I'm sure too.  The wise teacher wrote on the ground and those dudes walked away one at time.  Gee I wonder why?  Stop stoning each other and let's get this fixed.  This year is on and let's play it out.  We have some time to work this all out so the girls are treated right, not like in the old days.  I'm sorry as a man for what fellowman was up to back then and it seems some have never changed.  I think the philosopher was very compassionate and kind to this woman and so should we


----------



## outside!

Justus is now on my ignore list, too much noise, not enough signal.


----------



## LASTMAN14

outside! said:


> Justus is now on my ignore list, too much noise, not enough signal.


Me too. That last post was for me to much and the end of the line.


----------



## espola

outside! said:


> Justus is now on my ignore list, too much noise, not enough signal.


The only time I have used the ignore feature on any poster is when they were making multiple tryout postings across several subgroups.  

Until now.


----------



## futboldad1

LASTMAN14 said:


> Me too. That last post was for me to much and the end of the line.


I had no idea who he was until about 24 hours ago and was interacted with him for the first time this past weekend. But wow. Seems a polite enough guy but not making too much sense so going to join you guys...


----------



## uscdan

outside! said:


> Justus is now on my ignore list, too much noise, not enough signal.


I didn't realize you could do that - thank you!


----------



## Justus

Sorry guys.  Its not what you think.  I was on FB with 1200 friends the last 4 years and Politics and Religion seem to own everyone.  I said nothing on there, ever!!!  I have 175 friends by deleting anyone who took on a friend from HS 35 years ago, co-worker or family member.  I can't tell you how many friends hate each other all because of politics and religion and soccer now.  My point is obvious.  Sorry if I offended anyone and now everyone hates me.  Please, close this Thread now!!!!!


----------



## RJonesUSC

Justus said:


> Please, close this Thread now!!!!!


The thread itself was fine (as were the others before you took them sideways) as long as things stay on topic.  Your issue, imo, is that you ramble about anything and everything and post whatever thread you are currently in at the time.  Start a new thread in the Off Topic section and stop hijacking all the threads that people actually read to get and share info.  Your posts tend to take threads way off topic.  If you don't have anything to add to a threads topic, don't post.  Pretty simple.


----------



## Justus

RJonesUSC said:


> The thread itself was fine (as were the others before you took them sideways) as long as things stay on topic.  Your issue, imo, is that you ramble about anything and everything and post whatever thread you are currently in at the time.  Start a new thread in the Off Topic section and stop hijacking all the threads that people actually read to get and share info.  Your posts tend to take threads way off topic.  If you don't have anything to add to a threads topic, don't post.  Pretty simple.


You're 100% and I am sorry and for taking over.  I see my avatar and it's embarrassing.  I will delete all my threads I started.  I can't control what others do.  I will give the forum back to all of you.  Sorry for taking it too far and opening by big mouth.  I had no idea I get this reaction.  I'm super sorry.  Carry on


----------



## RJonesUSC

Justus said:


> I can't control what others do.


The entire point is that it seems that YOU can't control what YOU do.  Others are just reacting to your incoherent tirades.


----------



## NorCal

espola said:


> The only time I have used the ignore feature on any poster is when they were making multiple tryout postings across several subgroups.
> 
> Until now.


It was like a bad manifesto...thanks for the ignore tip. Happy to not witness anymore of that train wreck.


----------



## Justus

First off, I didn't know anyone was really reading my rants.  This is me in a nut shell for better or worse.  
I was told since birth I had to go to college.  Mom and her man both went to USC starting in 1939.  High School sweethearts.  He passed away before I was born. My brother went to UCLA.  I was adopted as a special needs baby but no one knew yet.  You see, I couldn't hear when I was born.  My mom didn't pick it up until I was two.  Operations (thank God she had a few $$$) for over two years.  Because I had to learn to speak at three, it caused a severe stuttering problem as they called it back then.  Oral reports were a bitch back then let me tell you.  As I got older, I skipped that part and got an F instead because back then you had to overcome the #1 fear over death for some reason.  Not easy to handle when you know the answer but when try and tell everyone you can't talk, it sucks.  So yes, my sports buddies would make laughs and some giggles.  No harm, no foul but inside I was pissed.  I couldn't really talk with much sense until I got married.  Sports is where I excelled.  Let me tell you, the guys who laughed at me got 100% of all my effort on the playground and I usually won   Lot's of cheering for me as little guy in sports but 100% not in the classroom.  All because I was "dumb" according to some, and they put me in some tough places to try and learn 2nd -4th grade.  I couldn't speak so I would have to make my dream on the fields and courts.  So My mom and my wife are the two biggest hero's in my life.  To the guys who left I'm sorry. Sorry again for speaking out of line.  I will now bow out once and for all.  100% will never post again.  Can't say I won't look but it's best I move on.


----------



## Mullet

Justus said:


> First off, I didn't know anyone was really reading my rants.  This is me in a nut shell for better or worse.
> I was told since birth I had to go to college.  Mom and her man both went to USC starting in 1939.  High School sweethearts.  He passed away before I was born. My brother went to UCLA.  I was adopted as a special needs baby but no one knew yet.  You see, I couldn't hear when I was born.  My mom didn't pick it up until I was two.  Operations (thank God she had a few $$$) for over two years.  Because I had to learn to speak at three, it caused a severe stuttering problem as they called it back then.  Oral reports were a bitch back then let me tell you.  As I got older, I skipped that part and got an F instead because back then you had to overcome the #1 fear over death for some reason.  Not easy to handle when you know the answer but when try and tell everyone you can't talk, it sucks.  So yes, my sports buddies would make laughs and some giggles.  No harm, no foul but inside I was pissed.  I couldn't really talk with much sense until I got married.  Sports is where I excelled.  Let me tell you, the guys who laughed at me got 100% of all my effort on the playground and I usually won   Lot's of cheering for me as little guy in sports but 100% not in the classroom.  All because I was "dumb" according to some, and they put me in some tough places to try and learn 2nd -4th grade.  I couldn't speak so I would have to make my dream on the fields and courts.  So My mom and my wife are the two biggest hero's in my life.  To the guys who left I'm sorry. Sorry again for speaking out of line.  I will now bow out once and for all.  100% will never post again.  Can't say I won't look but it's best I move on.


Please take this as nicely as possible.

Nobody cares and please just shut up.


----------



## MarkM

Mullet said:


> Please take this as nicely as possible.
> 
> Nobody cares and please just shut up.


What a clown show.  I feel bad for the other parents on the Strikers 04 team.


----------



## Poconos

Justus said:


> I need to say sorry to you Own Goal.  I took "stronger" as "better than" when you were saying "better options."  Bushman told me to go back and read and I'm doing that.  Sorry for being a jerk.  Please forgive me


S L O W   D O W N


----------



## LadiesMan217

Is this actually done? Please!


----------



## gotothebushes

LadiesMan217 said:


> Is this actually done? Please!


How’s the weather?


----------



## LASTMAN14

gotothebushes said:


> How’s the weather?


Do I need to hit the stop ignoring button to see what’s happening?


----------



## RJonesUSC

LASTMAN14 said:


> Do I need to hit the stop ignoring button to see what’s happening?


I wouldn't chance it. Just click the Showed Ignored Content link to temporarily see the posts. Then at least you won't get bombarded with emails once he starts up again.


----------



## Gameon1

Justus said:


> First off, I didn't know anyone was really reading my rants.  This is me in a nut shell for better or worse.
> I was told since birth I had to go to college.  Mom and her man both went to USC starting in 1939.  High School sweethearts.  He passed away before I was born. My brother went to UCLA.  I was adopted as a special needs baby but no one knew yet.  You see, I couldn't hear when I was born.  My mom didn't pick it up until I was two.  Operations (thank God she had a few $$$) for over two years.  Because I had to learn to speak at three, it caused a severe stuttering problem as they called it back then.  Oral reports were a bitch back then let me tell you.  As I got older, I skipped that part and got an F instead because back then you had to overcome the #1 fear over death for some reason.  Not easy to handle when you know the answer but when try and tell everyone you can't talk, it sucks.  So yes, my sports buddies would make laughs and some giggles.  No harm, no foul but inside I was pissed.  I couldn't really talk with much sense until I got married.  Sports is where I excelled.  Let me tell you, the guys who laughed at me got 100% of all my effort on the playground and I usually won   Lot's of cheering for me as little guy in sports but 100% not in the classroom.  All because I was "dumb" according to some, and they put me in some tough places to try and learn 2nd -4th grade.  I couldn't speak so I would have to make my dream on the fields and courts.  So My mom and my wife are the two biggest hero's in my life.  To the guys who left I'm sorry. Sorry again for speaking out of line.  I will now bow out once and for all.  100% will never post again.  Can't say I won't look but it's best I move on.


Dude you need to relax and get a life or job. Your rants are beyond crazy.


----------



## Canyon90

Yo Justus, ignore these haters throwing you shade brah!

It's not like you posted your DD's full name for everyone to Google a female minor - oh wait, you did!

It's not like you're stuck somewhere in 2013-2015 living your glory days off your DD's soccer accomplishments like Uncle Rico on meth - oh wait, you are!

It's not like you're the greatest club hopper of all time from Arsenal, Legends, Blues, Surf, back to Blues, now Strikers - oh wait, you are!

It's not like you're a recovering Kool-Aid'oholic licking your lips chap for one more sip - oh wait, you are!

It's not like you're killing this forum by constantly hating on the DA because that path didn't work out for you and is somehow the reason your DD isn't on "da list" - oh wait, you are!

...well at least you brought life back to this VERY dull forum, because that my brah - you also did!!!

Viva El Justus!


----------



## Gameon1

Canyon90 said:


> Yo Justus, ignore these haters throwing you shade brah!
> 
> It's not like you posted your DD's full name for everyone to Google a female minor - oh wait, you did!
> 
> It's not like you're stuck somewhere in 2013-2015 living your glory days off your DD's soccer accomplishments like Uncle Rico on meth - oh wait, you are!
> 
> 
> It's not like you're the greatest club hopper of all time from Arsenal, Legends, Blues, Surf, back to Blues, now Strikers - oh wait, you are!
> 
> It's not like you're a recovering Kool-Aid'oholic licking your lips chap for one more sip - oh wait, you are!
> 
> It's not like you're killing this forum by constantly hating on the DA because that path didn't work out for you and is somehow the reason your DD isn't on "da list" - oh wait, you are!
> 
> ...well at least you brought life back to this VERY dull forum, because that my brah - you also did!!!
> 
> Viva El Justus!


You forgot after Surf then Legends then back to Surf part 2 and then 2 different Blues teams then Strikers.


----------



## Fact

He said that he would stop posting but he already broke that promise on the other thread.  What are the odds of him coming back in full force?


----------



## Fact

Justus said:


> You see, I couldn't hear when I was born.  My mom didn't pick it up until I was two.  Operations (thank God she had a few $$$) for over two years.  Because I had to learn to speak at three, it caused a severe stuttering problem as they called it back then.  Oral reports were a bitch back then let me tell you.  As I got older, I skipped that part and got an F instead because back then you had to overcome the #1 fear over death for some reason.  Not easy to handle when you know the answer but when try and tell everyone you can't talk, it sucks.  So yes, my sports buddies would make laughs and some giggles.  No harm, no foul but inside I was pissed.  I couldn't really talk with much sense until I got married.  Sports is where I excelled.  Let me tell you, the guys who laughed at me got 100% of all my effort on the playground and I usually won   Lot's of cheering for me as little guy in sports but 100% not in the classroom.  All because I was "dumb" according to some, and they put me in some tough places to try and learn 2nd -4th grade.  I couldn't speak so I would have to make my dream on the fields and courts.


In his defense, I just think he was trying to make up for lost time when he could not speak.


----------



## Kicknit22

Not sure who’s more annoying, JUSTUS or play by play guy for Long Beach State, LoL!


----------



## Canyon90

Yo Justus, where u at Brah!

Hopefully you made it to Nevada safe.

While most dads would do the family dinner and hit tables, I'm sure you're at the fields making sure they're soccer ready.

And if you forgot your ruler to ensure the grass is cut to the right height there's a Walmart right off the 582 Hwy for ya brah.

Stay away from the Bunny Ranches out there you crazy Uncle Rico!

And when you're done spreading that DA hate of yours to all in Nevada throw the forum a rant or two.

Go Surf, I mean Blues, sorry I meant Strikers!!!

Viva El Justus!


----------



## Justus

Canyon90 said:


> Yo Justus, where u at Brah!
> 
> Hopefully you made it to Nevada safe.
> 
> While most dads would do the family dinner and hit tables, I'm sure you're at the fields making sure they're soccer ready.
> 
> And if you forgot your ruler to ensure the grass is cut to the right height there's a Walmart right off the 582 Hwy for ya brah.
> 
> Stay away from the Bunny Ranches out there you crazy Uncle Rico!
> 
> And when you're done spreading that DA hate of yours to all in Nevada throw the forum a rant or two.
> 
> Go Surf, I mean Blues, sorry I meant Strikers!!!
> 
> Viva El Justus!


Brah, I just got back this morning.  Fields were 100% excellent.  Host team very nice. 
Stayed a few days after by myself to do some reflecting on the last 4 years.  I tried my best to stay away from "The Ranch" but it was hard, just like not posting here.  I'm very weak  
Heat FC played really great soccer.  GKs on both teams were MVPs in the 0-0 tie.  Yes, our team was very grateful for a tie on the road.  The GK for Vegas is the most complete GK I have seen at this age. 
My wife is making a "ugly sweater" for me with all the uniforms we've collected over the years in case we get invited to a party this XMas.  Some seem to have to change uniforms now without even changing teams so everyone can start making them.  Life is Beautiful!!!


----------



## Justus

Fact said:


> He said that he would stop posting but he already broke that promise on the other thread.  What are the odds of him coming back in full force?


Not a good bet to put odds on   I just got back from Vegas "Life is Beautiful" and I feel refreshed.  A different feel.  A calm in the air.  A new guy.  I'm sorry Fact for being a jerk on here towards you.  After talking to more people in this arena, I think we all got it bad one way or another.  I'm sorry I made my youth soccer rants more important their yours.  Taking over threads and spreading all that hate.  I'm now listening more instead of trying to "talk" out of turn.  I'm doing me best to stay out of conversations that others are having.  Two ears and one mouth.  I should listen twice as much as I talk or write.  SLOWDOWN has been preached to me since I was 3.  I'm finally learning this and I'm well over 50.


----------



## Canyon90

Justus said:


> Brah, I just got back this morning.  Fields were 100% excellent.  Host team very nice.
> Stayed a few days after by myself to do some reflecting on the last 4 years.  I tried my best to stay away from "The Ranch" but it was hard, just like not posting here.  I'm very weak
> Heat FC played really great soccer.  GKs on both teams were MVPs in the 0-0 tie.  Yes, our team was very grateful for a tie on the road.  The GK for Vegas is the most complete GK I have seen at this age.
> My wife is making a "ugly sweater" for me with all the uniforms we've collected over the years in case we get invited to a party this XMas.  Some seem to have to change uniforms now without even changing teams so everyone can start making them.  Life is Beautiful!!!


Yo Justus, you're back!!!

Looks like you're taking a new lease on forum life.

But just like I knew you'd post again, I'm sure we'll see shades of the Anti-DA Ranting Super Hero we all know sooner or later.

Until then I'm rooting for ya brah!

Viva El Justus!


----------



## End of the Line

Kicker4Life said:


> Wow...didn’t know we flew.
> 
> Why don’t you stick to what you know.....oh wait....nevermind


I apologize for wrongly assuming that Beach flew.  It never crossed my mind that anyone would spend 10 hours in a freakin' car to play a 90 minute soccer game against a patsy.  That's even worse than flying.


----------



## Kicker4Life

End of the Line said:


> I apologize for wrongly assuming that Beach flew.  It never crossed my mind that anyone would spend 10 hours in a freakin' car to play a 90 minute soccer game against a patsy.  That's even worse than flying.


Taking cheap shots at clubs now?  Guess there just is no level you won’t stoop to in attempt to promote your “anti” propaganda.  I wonder if the ECNL teams drive or fly?


----------



## Justus

Where is everyone going?  Where are the replacements?  Who is actually running the show at the DA now for girls?  Boys will be ok.  Is the cat also guarding the mice over there?  Wow, wow, wow!!!!

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/83754/chief-soccer-officer-asher-mendelsohn-leaves-us.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headline&utm_campaign=22340&hashid=HgQcUF3AUkQhka4F2net6MXz-ic


----------



## dad4

I am still not sure why we need either DA or ECNL.    strength is team by team, not club by club.   Your club might have had some great teams in 2000-2006, but that doesn’t mean anything if this year’s team is only so-so.  There are ECNL teams that aren't even in the top thousand teams on YSR.   who wants to fly 400 miles to play team number 987?  

promotion/relegation is a much better system.  take the best teams in each age bracket, and let them play each other.   for the rest of us, why are you hopping on a plane if there are 20 local teams better than you?   go play one of them.


----------



## FutbulnCoffee

Hello, not sure if this is the right threat and not sure if this has been asked before.   Can a player in ECNL, leave her current team to join a DA team?  I'm talking about now, being October.   Would there be any issues?


----------



## LASTMAN14

FutbulnCoffee said:


> Hello, not sure if this is the right threat and not sure if this has been asked before.   Can a player in ECNL, leave her current team to join a DA team?  I'm talking about now, being October.   Would there be any issues?


I’m fairly certain you can.


----------



## espola

FutbulnCoffee said:


> Hello, not sure if this is the right threat and not sure if this has been asked before.   Can a player in ECNL, leave her current team to join a DA team?  I'm talking about now, being October.   Would there be any issues?


Since neither organization recognizes the other's registrations, a player registered in an ECNL team would be a free agent available to sign with any DA team.


----------



## FutbulnCoffee

espola said:


> Since neither organization recognizes the other's registrations, a player registered in an ECNL team would be a free agent available to sign with any DA team.


thank you for responding


----------



## FutbulnCoffee

espola said:


> Since neither organization recognizes the other's registrations, a player registered in an ECNL team would be a free agent available to sign with any DA team.


thank you.


----------



## espola

espola said:


> Since neither organization recognizes the other's registrations, a player registered in an ECNL team would be a free agent available to sign with any DA team.


You should be careful of clubs with teams in both programs.  They may sign a player up in both but only place that assign that player to a single team for practices, games, tournaments, showcases - (did I forget anything?).  The dual registration does that player no good and prevents her from signing as a free agent with a team in the organization other than the one in which her assigned team plays.


----------



## newwavedave

From Ernie:
*Twelve years after the start of the Development Academy on the boys side, dissatisfaction with the program has grown, while the girls program, launched in 2016, splintered the girls landscape.*

Has U.S. Soccer bit off more than it can chew in running the DA? Stewart doesn't share that view.

*EARNIE STEWART:* "Not at all. I am not going to call it being concerned about something, but we need to look at our youth landscape and we have all sorts of different pyramids and are not yet in a situation where we have a pyramid that has the best play against the best. That is my concern.

"Who runs the Development Academy?* I want to create one big pyramid on the boys' side and on the girls' side. And we all need to work together. *That's kind of what I miss. And so the things I worry about is creating that structure, that apart from coaching, that you have coaching education, you have the performance environments, you have standards and certifications.

"That's why Brazil is so great, because they play in the favela, on the field right next to it, and you get to play with the best players. And that for us is something I think about everyday, creating that, not so much the structure and organizing [the DA]. *I want us creating one big pyramid where we get the best playing the best and everything trickles up." *ECNL vs DA?

*"The top of the pyramid is so easy. The bottom of the pyramid?* That is the hard part. If you need to organize that, then the country becomes very big. And creating a structure is what the technical committee together with those working on the Youth Task Force are thinking about every day -- but it is never the top of pyramid. The DA itself, running that is not going to be a problem. When it's broader on the bottom, that's where it becomes more difficult because the country becomes very, very big. However, I believe that it is possible, and I am committed to that every single day."

The players need to be at the top of the Pyramid Ernie.  Which pyramid is Ernie talking about?  John Wooden has a great one.  This is why the girls leagues are toxic and were all divided.  I was looking at the Stanford roster and I believe just about everyone played HS Soccer.  Another way to divide the folks and not work together for what's best for the girls.  So sad.  I think we all know whose at the top of the USSF pyramid...….


----------



## Soccerhelper

Canyon90 said:


> Yo Justus, ignore these haters throwing you shade brah!
> 
> It's not like you posted your DD's full name for everyone to Google a female minor - oh wait, you did!
> 
> It's not like you're stuck somewhere in 2013-2015 living your glory days off your DD's soccer accomplishments like Uncle Rico on meth - oh wait, you are!
> 
> It's not like you're the greatest club hopper of all time from Arsenal, Legends, Blues, Surf, back to Blues, now Strikers - oh wait, you are!
> 
> It's not like you're a recovering Kool-Aid'oholic licking your lips chap for one more sip - oh wait, you are!
> 
> It's not like you're killing this forum by constantly hating on the DA because that path didn't work out for you and is somehow the reason your DD isn't on "da list" - oh wait, you are!
> 
> ...well at least you brought life back to this VERY dull forum, because that my brah - you also did!!!
> 
> Viva El Justus!





Canyon90 said:


> Yo Justus, ignore these haters throwing you shade brah!
> 
> It's not like you posted your DD's full name for everyone to Google a female minor - oh wait, you did!
> 
> It's not like you're stuck somewhere in *2013-2015 living your glory days *off your DD's soccer accomplishments like *Uncle Rico* on meth - oh wait, you are!
> 
> It's not like you're the *greatest club hopper of all time* from *Arsenal**, Legends, Blues ,surf, back to Blues, now Strikers -* oh wait, you are!
> 
> It's not like you're a recovering* Kool-Aid'oholic licking your lips chap for one more sip - oh wait, you are!*
> 
> It's not like you're killing this forum by constantly* hating on the DA because that path didn't work out for you and is somehow the reason your DD isn't on "da list" - oh wait, you are!*
> 
> ...well at least you brought life back to this VERY dull forum, because that my brah - you also did!!!
> 
> Viva El Justus!




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/877163435569561600
Surf posted this on all their social platforms in 2017 for all to see and she was only 13 years old way before I "outed" her.  Is that ok to do without my consent? Plus, the goal was a topic on the socal soccer forum if I'm not mistaken.  All the BS you said sounds exactly like someone I know when they told me those things.  So I'm curious which rich dad you are @Canyon90?  I re-read things people say about this subject to get a pulse. Are you the one who told me my dd dream is a pipe dream?  College coaches hate club hoppers? How about the one who went ape shit when Pauly called her up for her one and only call up to just piss off a few rich dads before he left for Greener Pasture?  Anyway dude, Merry Christmas and I hope 2020 brings you true happiness


----------



## LASTMAN14

Soccerhelper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/877163435569561600
> Surf posted this on all their social platforms in 2017 for all to see and she was only 13 years old way before I "outed" her.  Is that ok to do without my consent? Plus, the goal was a topic on the socal soccer forum if I'm not mistaken.  All the BS you said sounds exactly like someone I know when they told me those things.  So I'm curious which rich dad you are @Canyon90?  I re-read things people say about this subject to get a pulse. Are you the one who told me my dd dream is a pipe dream?  College coaches hate club hoppers? How about the one who went ape shit when Pauly called her up for her one and only call up to just piss off a few rich dads before he left for Greener Pasture?  Anyway dude, Merry Christmas and I hope 2020 brings you true happiness


Does your avatar reflect your current state? Betelgeuse?


----------



## Soccerhelper

LASTMAN14 said:


> Does your avatar reflect your current state? Betelgeuse?


I'm actually looking for exit tragedy. I did my good deed helping Luis with the Blue Pill advice and if I died today I feel I saved one dad from the rabbit hole.  I also want to make sure Tad Bobak is treated with respect before I leave and not have his biz tarnished by a few jealous rich dads with some extra money in da bank. Almost done and I'll be all gone and let all you DAers enjoy the rest of the ride off the cliff.  My inbox is way more hate with warnings right now so I know the bear doesn't like to be poked.  So I'm guessing before the new year no more ej for good.  I have to finish the story and then I'm out for good.  Luis did and so can I.  I didn't think he would but I saw his goat play and she needs to be with the other goats at Blues.  He's not posting so being called by RR has some value after all.  Good night now!!!!


----------



## Soccerhelper

LASTMAN14 said:


> Does your avatar reflect your current state? Betelgeuse?


*Will Betelgeuse explode soon? Star may go supernova soon ...*


----------



## Lambchop

newwavedave said:


> From Ernie:
> *Twelve years after the start of the Development Academy on the boys side, dissatisfaction with the program has grown, while the girls program, launched in 2016, splintered the girls landscape.*
> 
> Has U.S. Soccer bit off more than it can chew in running the DA? Stewart doesn't share that view.
> 
> *EARNIE STEWART:* "Not at all. I am not going to call it being concerned about something, but we need to look at our youth landscape and we have all sorts of different pyramids and are not yet in a situation where we have a pyramid that has the best play against the best. That is my concern.
> 
> "Who runs the Development Academy?* I want to create one big pyramid on the boys' side and on the girls' side. And we all need to work together. *That's kind of what I miss. And so the things I worry about is creating that structure, that apart from coaching, that you have coaching education, you have the performance environments, you have standards and certifications.
> 
> "That's why Brazil is so great, because they play in the favela, on the field right next to it, and you get to play with the best players. And that for us is something I think about everyday, creating that, not so much the structure and organizing [the DA]. *I want us creating one big pyramid where we get the best playing the best and everything trickles up." *ECNL vs DA?
> 
> *"The top of the pyramid is so easy. The bottom of the pyramid?* That is the hard part. If you need to organize that, then the country becomes very big. And creating a structure is what the technical committee together with those working on the Youth Task Force are thinking about every day -- but it is never the top of pyramid. The DA itself, running that is not going to be a problem. When it's broader on the bottom, that's where it becomes more difficult because the country becomes very, very big. However, I believe that it is possible, and I am committed to that every single day."
> 
> The players need to be at the top of the Pyramid Ernie.  Which pyramid is Ernie talking about?  John Wooden has a great one.  This is why the girls leagues are toxic and were all divided.  I was looking at the Stanford roster and I believe just about everyone played HS Soccer.  Another way to divide the folks and not work together for what's best for the girls.  So sad.  I think we all know whose at the top of the USSF pyramid...….


Don't forget the DA for players has only completed two years on the girls side, into the third year now. None of the seniors or juniors would have been able to play DA because it didn't exist for the girls. Some younger players may have had one year with freshmen possible two. So yes, the majority probably did play high school.


----------



## Canyon90

Soccerhelper said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/877163435569561600
> Surf posted this on all their social platforms in 2017 for all to see and she was only 13 years old way before I "outed" her.  Is that ok to do without my consent? Plus, the goal was a topic on the socal soccer forum if I'm not mistaken.  All the BS you said sounds exactly like someone I know when they told me those things.  So I'm curious which rich dad you are @Canyon90?  I re-read things people say about this subject to get a pulse. Are you the one who told me my dd dream is a pipe dream?  College coaches hate club hoppers? How about the one who went ape shit when Pauly called her up for her one and only call up to just piss off a few rich dads before he left for Greener Pasture?  Anyway dude, Merry Christmas and I hope 2020 brings you true happiness


Yo Soccerhelper, sorry to disappoint, but I'm not the rich dad you blame me to be.  Very far from it actually.

Besides why you digging up an old post from September and replying to it on Christmas Eve! (LMAO).

Really brah!  It's the Holiday so relax and give the crazed-youth-soccer-parent thing a rest and spend that time with your family and loved ones.

Not to mention you, I mean El Justus (wink-wink), admitting to deserving the "playful" jabs I threw in that post.

And now here you are re-posting videos of that young girl (SMH).

Look in the mirror brah, people like you are the problem in this forum, not lurkers like me.

Ps... give EJ, Justus, Newwavedave and all the other voices my best wishes for a prosperous 2020!


----------



## SoccerJones

Canyon90 said:


> Yo Soccerhelper, sorry to disappoint, but I'm not the rich dad you blame me to be.  Very far from it actually.
> 
> Besides why you digging up an old post from September and replying to it on Christmas Eve! (LMAO).
> 
> Really brah!  It's the Holiday so relax and give the crazed-youth-soccer-parent thing a rest and spend that time with your family and loved ones.
> 
> Not to mention you, I mean El Justus (wink-wink), admitting to deserving the "playful" jabs I threw in that post.
> 
> And now here you are re-posting videos of that young girl (SMH).
> 
> Look in the mirror brah, people like you are the problem in this forum, not lurkers like me.
> 
> Ps... give EJ, Justus, Newwavedave and all the other voices my best wishes for a prosperous 2020!


it's bruh...not brah..just an fyi vato


----------



## MicPaPa

SoccerJones said:


> it's bruh...not brah..just an fyi vato


"a fyi"...not "an fyi"..just a fyi pendejo.


----------



## SoccerJones

MicPaPa said:


> "a fyi"...not "an fyi"..just a fyi pendejo.


LOL!  Again, you're wrong and now everyone is laughing at you...  

Just an FYI: When using an abbreviation, FYI is used as a noun.  Nobody would say "just an For Your Information".  Google it mensito y maybe you'll learn some englich.  On second thought...read this  

*With abbreviations, what matters is how they are pronounced.*
_*The letter F in English is pronounced “eff.” The abbreviation FYI is thus pronounced eff-why-eye. It begins with a vowel sound.
Thus, it is an FYI.
The letters F, H, L, M, N, R, and S should be remembered: they sound as if they begin with a vowel.*_
*So: an HMO, an LSD trip, an MRI, an NGO, an RSVP, or an STD.* 

ya ves mensito? "...just a fyi pendejo"=no bueno güey! haha


----------



## MicPaPa

SoccerJones said:


> LOL!  Again, you're wrong and now everyone is laughing at you...
> 
> Just an FYI: When using an abbreviation, FYI is used as a noun.  Nobody would say "just an For Your Information".  Google it mensito y maybe you'll learn some englich.  On second thought...read this
> 
> *With abbreviations, what matters is how they are pronounced.*
> _*The letter F in English is pronounced “eff.” The abbreviation FYI is thus pronounced eff-why-eye. It begins with a vowel sound.
> Thus, it is an FYI.
> The letters F, H, L, M, N, R, and S should be remembered: they sound as if they begin with a vowel.*_
> *So: an HMO, an LSD trip, an MRI, an NGO, an RSVP, or an STD.*
> 
> ya ves mensito? "...just a fyi pendejo"=no bueno güey! haha


Correct! Nobody would use "just" in this context...thus, a/n not in play.

FYI: Ask Google


----------



## espola

SoccerJones said:


> LOL!  Again, you're wrong and now everyone is laughing at you...
> 
> Just an FYI: When using an abbreviation, FYI is used as a noun.  Nobody would say "just an For Your Information".  Google it mensito y maybe you'll learn some englich.  On second thought...read this
> 
> *With abbreviations, what matters is how they are pronounced.*
> _*The letter F in English is pronounced “eff.” The abbreviation FYI is thus pronounced eff-why-eye. It begins with a vowel sound.
> Thus, it is an FYI.
> The letters F, H, L, M, N, R, and S should be remembered: they sound as if they begin with a vowel.*_
> *So: an HMO, an LSD trip, an MRI, an NGO, an RSVP, or an STD.*
> 
> ya ves mensito? "...just a fyi pendejo"=no bueno güey! haha


FYI (to both of you) -- nobody cares.


----------



## SoccerJones

MicPaPa said:


> Correct! Nobody would use "just" in this context...thus, a/n not in play.
> 
> FYI: Ask Google


you're making yourself look estupid...please estop!  that was not your initial argument.


----------



## MicPaPa

SoccerJones said:


> you're making yourself look estupid...please estop!  that was not your initial argument.


See @espola comment above...he gets it.

"just a" BTW: you put a lot into this...hope family time didn't suffer. LOL!


----------



## dad4

Is it time to stop accusing each other of not knowing English and go back to accusing each other of not knowing soccer?

Or do we take a holiday break and focus on off topic insults for a while?


----------



## SoccerJones

dad4 said:


> Is it time to stop accusing each other of not knowing English and go back to accusing each other of not knowing soccer?
> 
> Or do we take a holiday break and focus on off topic insults for a while?


LMBO! hahaha good question!


----------



## MicPaPa

SoccerJones said:


> LMBO! hahaha good question!


It's "LMAO"


----------



## Kicker4Life

MicPaPa said:


> See @espola comment above...he gets it.
> 
> "just a" BTW: you put a lot into this...hope family time didn't suffer. LOL!


If your using “E” as support for your argument, you’re already wrong (whether you’re really right or not )


----------



## SoccerJones

MicPaPa said:


> It's "LMAO"


I don't like to cuss pendejo...hahaha


----------



## MicPaPa

SoccerJones said:


> I don't like to cuss pendejo...hahaha


...or you mean huevos, travestida. LMAO!


----------



## SoccerJones

MicPaPa said:


> ...or you mean huevos, travestida. LMAO!


And now making jokes about the LGTBQ community...classy....real classy.


----------



## MicPaPa

SoccerJones said:


> And now making jokes about the LGTBQ community...classy....real classy.


...yet mocking the grammatically challenged community is classy?

Don't you have a English & Manners class to teach... LOL!


----------



## outside!

SoccerJones said:


> I don't like to cuss pendejo...hahaha


I heard that "pendejo" means friend.


----------



## espola

Kicker4Life said:


> If your using “E” as support for your argument, you’re already wrong (whether you’re really right or not )


What have I ever gotten wrong before?


----------



## LASTMAN14

espola said:


> What have I ever gotten wrong before?


Much, like this. And often.


----------



## dad4

Time for someone to lecture us about "offside" versus "offsides"?

Thanks in advance, chile rellenos.


----------



## espola

LASTMAN14 said:


> Much, like this. And often.


Could you be more specific?


----------



## dk_b

dad4 said:


> Thanks in advance, chile rellenos.


Chiles rellenos, not chile rellenos


----------



## dad4

dk_b said:


> Chiles rellenos, not chile rellenos


Muchas gracia.


----------



## outside!

dk_b said:


> Chiles rellenos, not chile rellenos


From Chope's


----------



## Soccerhelper

Fact said:


> "Everyone who pays taxes and has had kids playing at an elite club level should ALL have EQUAL access to the YNT"  ????? What about the kiddo that does not live within driving distance to an "Elite Club," cannot afford an elite club or just simply decides to play for a local club with a great coach?  Over the years, I have seen many talented kiddos that don't even get looked at by ODP because their coach is not connected.
> 
> You're the classic I want my cake and eat it too.  You as much admit that you moved your DD to Surf to create a super team to compete for the National Championship.  I believe this is the age group of Jeremy's and Bryan's DD and while one was rightfully on the team, this team was manufactured around a certain player.  That meant purposely taking away from the other power teams in Socal including Blues.  That's were your DD and her teammates that moved to Surf became important;  drain the talent at Blues to get past the Socal competition.  And you went there for the dream, not the coach like should be the focus.
> 
> You must have wondered why certain players make the A team at Surf or why some kiddos get more playing time when skill level does not seem to mesh.  Were you ever offered privates in exchange for making sure your player never came off the field?  I am not sure what age group won the National Championship but that behavior was quiet prevalent at the younger age groups of Surf.
> 
> Unfortunately life is not fair and everyone has to decide what is best for them.  Yes it sucks that Surf DA players that go to private schools like Francis Parker and Bishops  play on the high school team.  If I were friends with any such families, I would start to question my friendship with these less than scrupulous people.  Maybe spend your time exposing these injustices or maybe in the grand scheme of things you can at least be proud of your DD for standing up for what she believes in and enjoy watching her play. The time goes by fast.


@Fact, please stay away from me and my posts.  TY.  My first time meeting the famous Fact!!!!


----------



## sdb

Not posting this to bag on ECNL, same can probably be said for many DA teams.

From Soccer America Today, posting a Tweet from Eddie Johnson (former US pro):

"I'm literally watching the u-17 girls @theECNL college showcase here in Orlando Florida and I can't believe the level of play of girls in our country at 17 years old technically and tactically it's embarrassing and disappointing to the sport. I'm literally looking at these games and I don't know how these college coaches can watch and what are they looking for when the ball is in the air 95 percent of the time. Soccer is a creative game and requires intelligent players. There's nothing intelligent in watching a player smack the the ball as hard as they can up the field when they have time and space. This is shocking. I really feel bad watching all these clubs steal these parents hard earned money and aren't developing their kids properly."

-- Former U.S. international *Eddie Johnson* on the play at the January ECNL Showcase in Sanford, Florida, near Orlando, where he is a youth coach. (@eddie_johnson7)


----------



## RSD

sdb said:


> Not posting this to bag on ECNL, same can probably be said for many DA teams.
> 
> From Soccer America Today, posting a Tweet from Eddie Johnson (former US pro):
> 
> "I'm literally watching the u-17 girls @theECNL college showcase here in Orlando Florida and I can't believe the level of play of girls in our country at 17 years old technically and tactically it's embarrassing and disappointing to the sport. I'm literally looking at these games and I don't know how these college coaches can watch and what are they looking for when the ball is in the air 95 percent of the time. Soccer is a creative game and requires intelligent players. There's nothing intelligent in watching a player smack the the ball as hard as they can up the field when they have time and space. This is shocking. I really feel bad watching all these clubs steal these parents hard earned money and aren't developing their kids properly."
> 
> -- Former U.S. international *Eddie Johnson* on the play at the January ECNL Showcase in Sanford, Florida, near Orlando, where he is a youth coach. (@eddie_johnson7)


It certainly can be said of many DA teams and college programs unfortunately.  It is embarrassing.  Spot on Eddie Johnson.


----------



## SoccerJones

RSD said:


> It certainly can be said of many DA teams and college programs unfortunately.  It is embarrassing.  Spot on Eddie Johnson.


The reality is that clubs here in the US do two things that hamper development.  

1) winning over development.  If you have a speedy forward kick the ball up to him/her and score all kinds of goals..meanwhile nobody is getting better but the club earns merit points for winning this and that.  Kids need to spend more time kicking the ball or going to a wall or going to the park and play, thus increasing their technical and tactical understanding.  

2) Too many drills.  drills, drills, drills that don't translate into real game situations AND even more importantly, does not encourage creativity.  

It's the unfortunate haps of living in a wining culture where winning is the ONLY reason to play.  And while that may be true at older ages, it certainly doesn't or shouldn't trump development with the younger kids.


----------



## Dubs

sdb said:


> Not posting this to bag on ECNL, same can probably be said for many DA teams.
> 
> From Soccer America Today, posting a Tweet from Eddie Johnson (former US pro):
> 
> "I'm literally watching the u-17 girls @theECNL college showcase here in Orlando Florida and I can't believe the level of play of girls in our country at 17 years old technically and tactically it's embarrassing and disappointing to the sport. I'm literally looking at these games and I don't know how these college coaches can watch and what are they looking for when the ball is in the air 95 percent of the time. Soccer is a creative game and requires intelligent players. There's nothing intelligent in watching a player smack the the ball as hard as they can up the field when they have time and space. This is shocking. I really feel bad watching all these clubs steal these parents hard earned money and aren't developing their kids properly."
> 
> -- Former U.S. international *Eddie Johnson* on the play at the January ECNL Showcase in Sanford, Florida, near Orlando, where he is a youth coach. (@eddie_johnson7)


He is correct, but as you said.. same can be said for DA teams.  However, Eddie Johnson isn't watching the teams he should be watching.  There are ECNL and DA teams that are very technical and play in an attractive, intelligent and successful way.  I'm guessing he just hasn't seen them, but he needs to make it a point to.


----------



## soccer4us

Dubs said:


> He is correct, but as you said.. same can be said for DA teams.  However, Eddie Johnson isn't watching the teams he should be watching.  There are ECNL and DA teams that are very technical and play in an attractive, intelligent and successful way.  I'm guessing he just hasn't seen them, but he needs to make it a point to.


To me it's a bit ironic EJ throws this out when to my knowledge he's NEVER coached a team. Only started doing individual training maybe in the last 1-2 years. No matter the playing level someone achieves, go coach a team for a few years then talk. Like anywhere in the world, it depends what you're watching. Go watch the top 2 ECNL and DA teams, I'm pretty sure you will see plenty of technical and smart players.


----------



## Dubs

soccer4us said:


> To me it's a bit ironic EJ throws this out when to my knowledge he's NEVER coached a team. Only started doing individual training maybe in the last 1-2 years. No matter the playing level someone achieves, go coach a team for a few years then talk. Like anywhere in the world, it depends what you're watching. Go watch the top 2 ECNL and DA teams, I'm pretty sure you will see plenty of technical and smart players.


Your last statement is exactly my point.  It's not even necessarily the top 2 teams.  There are a number of teams that come from specific clubs that teach/play very technical football.  It's not a huge list, but still, these teams/clubs focus on those aspects of development and have comitted to this style of play.  Blanket statements are always dangerous and often make people look stupid.


----------



## soccer4us

Or 


Dubs said:


> Your last statement is exactly my point.  It's not even necessarily the top 2 teams.  There are a number of teams that come from specific clubs that teach/play very technical football.  It's not a huge list, but still, these teams/clubs focus on those aspects of development and have comitted to this style of play.  Blanket statements are always dangerous and often make people look stupid.


Or it was, hey, come get real technical training to improve your game  

I agree overall. Blanket statements don’t help. I always like to say, don’t complain unless you have a solution. If so, let’s hear it and have a good discussion!


----------



## Dubs

soccer4us said:


> Or
> 
> Or it was, hey, come get real technical training to improve your game
> 
> I agree overall. Blanket statements don’t help. I always like to say, don’t complain unless you have a solution. If so, let’s hear it and have a good discussion!


Or at least if you're going to complain, it should come from an informed place.


----------



## Soccerhelper

How's the Toxic War going between the two companies that *supply* what most of us parents *demand*?  Vegas started this thread April 30th, 2019.  I jumped in July 2019.  Are the two sides at least trying to do whats best for the *customers*? Sorry for getting all emotional and playing the victim card because my little goat didn't make the all star team.  I'm embarrassed at @myself and deserved a @RedCard. I have come to the conviction that I need a second chance everyday.  Sometimes I need more than one second chance too.  All my "woes to me" that I carried around in my life.  I did have a few Big Woes going on that most of you can;t relate to and I'll just leave it at that.  Water under the bridge.  I look back and only wonder what Kobe would say to me if I asked him for help before I came back to the SoCal Soccer Fabulous Forum asking for help.  I already know what he would say to me and I will just say,  "no more f*ucking excuses" from me or from my dd. Come to think about it, my dd only asked what she could do to improve to make next all star team, so she's innocent in all this. Time to shape up or shut up. Have a gr8t day everyone and if you're dd is getting to play soccer today, go kick ass like your dd has been doing all along and whatever league you play in just go play and have fun  @Luis Andres good luck next season to your baby girl that you love and remember what the Mamba said, "No excuses bro." Those long drives can be challenging, enjoy the time with #2.  @Sparky9 keep believing the dream bro if you know what I mean. @Technician72 love you bro and @Keeper pops , I hope for a speedy recovery from your dd second ACL.  Man, that is tough but I see those FB pics and see she is working super hard at her rehab and will be back soon. BTW, I hope I see Alex Morgan at the D3 CIF finals when Laguna Beach Breakers takes on the Diamond Bar Brahmas in a classic final.  I know, one game at a time.  One can still dream it


----------



## Ellejustus

Hi Friends and Foes, 
*friend* or *foe*. a *friend* or an enemy. For example, "I can't tell whether Rob or Frank are *friends* or *foes*.

I first want to welcome all those who have to work from home now.  My wife and have been working from home now since 2005. I did have to drive to OC from Temecula for a year in 2015-2016.  Btw, all before the toll road extension to 15 and Ontario. You talk about hell on earth. The hate on 91 the Frwy every morning was insane and scarier than going to Baja Cali   I finally gave up and gots a hotel.  First time my wife and I slept a part for a long period of time during the week.  Basically, my chances of dying in a car accident on the 91 or from some crazy ass road rage dad was way higher than this virus.  I'm not downplaying the seriousness of this thing either. To all those affected by this emergency, I'm praying for you and I'm here to help.  America is strong and the good in us will prevail.  WE will help those most impacted.  Now to the more important things in life.
What are we going to do with this DA and ECNL war?  Let's have a discussion if you want to.


----------



## timmyh

EJ/SH... Didn't you promise to only post in the threads you started? Please stop ruining all the other ones.


----------



## Ellejustus

timmyh said:


> EJ/SH... Didn't you promise to only post in the threads you started? Please stop ruining all the other ones.




No one is talking about reality.  EJ is back and ready to discuss with everyone how we can make soccer better and healthier.  Plus, soccerhelper was the one who made the last promise.  I'm not making anymore promises.  I promised my wife I would never get made her too


----------



## Ellejustus

Let's all join hands (after virus leaves).  Listen again.  Parents & Players Association


----------



## Ellejustus

timmyh said:


> EJ/SH... Didn't you promise to only post in the threads you started? Please stop ruining all the other ones.


Tell you want you guys.  I will just stay here for today   This is the thread that stated it all for me.


----------



## myself

Ellejustus said:


> Tell you want you guys.  I will just stay here for today   This is the thread that stated it all for me.


Another account to add to ignore. Thx.


----------



## Technician72

Ellejustus said:


> Hi Friends and Foes,
> *friend* or *foe*. a *friend* or an enemy. For example, "I can't tell whether Rob or Frank are *friends* or *foes*.
> 
> I first want to welcome all those who have to work from home now.  My wife and have been working from home now since 2005. I did have to drive to OC from Temecula for a year in 2015-2016.  Btw, all before the toll road extension to 15 and Ontario. You talk about hell on earth. The hate on 91 the Frwy every morning was insane and scarier than going to Baja Cali   I finally gave up and gots a hotel.  First time my wife and I slept a part for a long period of time during the week.  Basically, my chances of dying in a car accident on the 91 or from some crazy ass road rage dad was way higher than this virus.  I'm not downplaying the seriousness of this thing either. To all those affected by this emergency, I'm praying for you and I'm here to help.  America is strong and the good in us will prevail.  WE will help those most impacted.  Now to the more important things in life.
> What are we going to do with this DA and ECNL war?  Let's have a discussion if you want to.


EJ handle is back?!?


----------



## Lightning Red

Please STFU!  Many of us have caught your act time and time again.  It’s old and tired.  You were the one that sold your soul a few years back. Look in the mirror buddy. You have nobody else to blame. I hope it all works out for the best for your daughter. She is a special player. And once She decides on June 15th please let us all know.


----------



## Ellejustus

Lightning Red said:


> Please STFU!  Many of us have caught your act time and time again.  It’s old and tired.  You were the one that sold your soul a few years back. Look in the mirror buddy. You have nobody else to blame. I hope it all works out for the best for your daughter. She is a special player. And once She decides on June 15th please let us all know.


----------



## Ellejustus

*Hawk Dad!!!!


"Some get me, some don't"*​
Some say, "you sold your soul, stop blame shifting.  BTW, your dd is a "special" player."  I don;t know where to start with those ramblings.  I will confess 100% I sold my soul.  I did, I really, really did sell my soul and so did my dd and my family. My old religious friends even said we were starting to sell our soul too.  They said to "Satan" because we started missing church for a local youth soccer league in 2012.  The attacks from that group hit us real hard around 2016, right when we were going for the Naty.  I regret every minute of selling my soul because it had a direct effect on our personal finances, and with all the Breaking News coming in from soccer everyday, I regret it even more.  I regret what happen to all the girls. My dd and are like two pees and a pod

What is the meaning of 2 peas in a pod?
*Definition of two peas in a pod*
—used to say that *two* people or things are very similar to each other. My daughter and I are *two peas in a pod*. We both like the same things.

Or a Soulmate

What does soulmate really mean?
"A *soulmate* is someone that just gets you. It's a connection of minds, a mutual respect, an unconditional love and a total understanding. It's about being yourself and knowing, not only that person is following and understanding your thoughts, but is right there with you, side by side. ... My DD is my *soulmate. *

How do you know if someone is your soulmate? 
You feel each other's pain.  You stand in each other's shoes. You *know* each other so well, that the second she walks in the door, you can *tell* how her day was. You feel each other's feelings: sadness, worry, and stress. And you share each other's happiness and joy. 

I will share later today what our family actually sold our soul to.  Be safe out there everyone.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper




----------



## Messi>CR7

Dominic,
If possible, can you please limit Ellejustus and Soccerhelper to his own thread?  I'm all for first amendment, but frankly he is ruining this site for me and others.  He essentially killed the very useful "new posts" function.  Every time I click on "new posts", half of the threads were updated by "ignored member".  I now have to go into each thread to see if another member had previously posted something helpful.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about.  Thank you.


----------



## timmyh

Messi>CR7 said:


> Dominic,
> If possible, can you please limit Ellejustus and Soccerhelper to his own thread?  I'm all for first amendment, but frankly he is ruining this site for me and others.  He essentially killed the very useful "new posts" function.  Every time I click on "new posts", half of the threads were updated by "ignored member".  I now have to go into each thread to see if another member had previously posted something helpful.
> 
> Here is an example of what I'm talking about.  Thank you.
> View attachment 6637


I second this motion.


----------



## Dof3

timmyh said:


> I second this motion.


Would require a way to block him from creating new user names, which he does regularly.


----------



## Ellejustus

What did I do wrong that would want you guys to have Dom threw my back in soccer forum jail?  I'm just posting again where I left off. Some of you have 5 accounts but only person.  Dom pardon me after being locked up for 7 months.  He let me out for good behavior.  All I'm talking about is how the girls were and are treated.  You have a problem with that?


----------



## silverback

Messi>CR7 said:


> Dominic,
> If possible, can you please limit Ellejustus and Soccerhelper to his own thread?  I'm all for first amendment, but frankly he is ruining this site for me and others.  He essentially killed the very useful "new posts" function.  Every time I click on "new posts", half of the threads were updated by "ignored member".  I now have to go into each thread to see if another member had previously posted something helpful.
> 
> Here is an example of what I'm talking about.  Thank you.
> View attachment 6637


I third this motion


----------



## timmyh

Ellejustus said:


> What did I do wrong that would want you guys to have Dom threw my back in soccer forum jail?  I'm just posting again where I left off. Some of you have 5 accounts but only person.  Dom pardon me after being locked up for 7 months.  He let me out for good behavior.  All I'm talking about is how the girls were and are treated.  You have a problem with that?


Nobody wants you thrown back in forum soccer jail. Just limited to posting in your own threads so you don't pollute everything else around here with your ramblings, nonsense, misinformation, and narcissism.

Keeping you quarantined to your own threads seems a good compromise to prevent this place from degrading any further.


----------



## Ellejustus

timmyh said:


> Nobody wants you thrown back in forum soccer jail. Just limited to posting in your own threads so you don't pollute everything else around here with your ramblings, nonsense, misinformation, and narcissism.
> 
> Keeping you quarantined to your own threads seems a good compromise to prevent this place from degrading any further.


This thread was dead until I posted.  I'm staying.  Dom, what do you say?  I will wait to here from the forum master with his ruling


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> This thread was dead until I posted.  I'm staying.  Dom, what do you say?  I will wait to here from the forum master with his ruling


Yes....so “alive” now.  19 total posts:
- 9 are you 
- 9 are posters asking for some relief from you
- 1 question about your EJ handle coming back

So alive with informative stuff!


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Yes....so “alive” now.  19 total posts:
> - 9 are you
> - 9 are posters asking for some relief from you
> - 1 question about your EJ handle coming back
> 
> So alive with informative stuff!


125,000 views.  It was at 124,000 before I came back.  Let's see what happens now Kicker.  Imm just hear too make sure girls are treated better as I always have been. Never about The List.  You only thought that because you don;t me.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> 125,000 views.  It was at 124,000 before I came back.  Let's see what happens now Kicker.  Imm just hear too make sure girls are treated better as I always have been. Never about The List.  You only thought that because you don;t me.


Views are up across the board bc of the Corona Virus info.  We all just see new posts to we check them out.


----------



## myself

Kicker4Life said:


> Views are up across the board bc of the Corona Virus info.  We all just see new posts to we check them out.


No no Kicker, it's b/c of him!


----------



## Kicker4Life

myself said:


> No no Kicker, it's b/c of him!


Yes, a legend in his own mind.


----------



## Ellejustus




----------



## outside!

To paraphrase a a song by Fear,

"The trouble with Ellejustus these days,
The mouth don't stop!"


----------



## Ellejustus

outside! said:


> To paraphrase a a song by Fear,
> 
> "The trouble with Ellejustus these days,
> The mouth don't stop!"


Can you go surfing in SD bro?  LB closed all the waves because everyone decided to come to our town when they were supposed to stay in their own parks and trails.  BTW Outside, I didn;t start all this did I? US Soccer, The Federation, GDA and a few rich dads caused all this toxic division.  I was 100% right when I told all of you the truth back in July.  That this new league would wreck havoc on all of us and it did.  I took some time to reflect on my hate and anger and now I feel I can speak more and with a lot less emotional rants.  Soccer will get better for the girls and I can;t wait to see all the changes that will take place for the 2020-2021 soccer season.  I told you guys that many changes are coming with way more to come.


----------



## Ellejustus

We need to find the top leaders in soccer to fix this toxic cancer.  Unity is 100% a must.  
I love this song and this group of super stars who put their alter egos aside to make some really great music. If you have any extra time, look up the history of this band and how it was formed. If the soccer leaders can do the same we can make some really good soccer.


----------



## Ellejustus

Who are the top voices in girls soccer?  If you can;t get unified and join hands and bring soccer equality to everyone, leave the group please.  We need a circle of commitment and transparency for all to see.  We need this group of leaders to help lead with the PPA group and all the Cal Souths out there and the clubs.  Starts at the top folks.  Forgive and forget and let's start fresh for 2020-2021.  How about this for an idea.  Let everyone be Free Agents. Give the current club til April 30th to sign their current players for next year.  After that, release all the non signed goats as FA and let them take some time to figure out best goat options for 2020-2021 season.  Get the teams together in July and then have a massive local summer tournament for regulation for all the top leagues for the 2020-2021 season.  I want to see GDA and ECNL play against each other throughout the year.  GDA needs to stop with their nonsense that their league is better.  Also, we need to let the winners of the local leagues get a chance to play the top dogs as well.  
My Picks for this collective group
Paul Riley and Tad Bobak
Anson Dorrance & Paul Ratcliffe
Cindy Parlow
Christian Lavers
Mia Hamm, Hope, Mallory, Megan, Alex and maybe a few college and youth girl players to give their .02 cents as well.  It's time to come together and join hands and make sure all the girls are treated equal and not treated like men.  Give them their due respect due them by showing them a better way to play soccer & show them the money


----------



## timbuck

Ellejustus said:


> We need to find the top leaders in soccer to fix this toxic cancer.  Unity is 100% a must.
> I love this song and this group of super stars who put their alter egos aside to make some really great music. If you have any extra time, look up the history of this band and how it was formed. If the soccer leaders can do the same we can make some really good soccer.


I think this song would be more appropriate.


----------



## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> Who are the top voices in girls soccer?  If you can;t get unified and join hands and bring soccer equality to everyone, leave the group please.  We need a circle of commitment and transparency for all to see.  We need this group of leaders to help lead with the PPA group and all the Cal Souths out there and the clubs.  Starts at the top folks.  Forgive and forget and let's start fresh for 2020-2021.  How about this for an idea.  Let everyone be Free Agents. Give the current club til April 30th to sign their current players for next year.  After that, release all the non signed goats as FA and let them take some time to figure out best goat options for 2020-2021 season.  Get the teams together in July and then have a massive local summer tournament for regulation for all the top leagues for the 2020-2021 season.  I want to see GDA and ECNL play against each other throughout the year.  GDA needs to stop with their nonsense that their league is better.  Also, we need to let the winners of the local leagues get a chance to play the top dogs as well.
> My Picks for this collective group
> Paul Riley and Tad Bobak
> Anson Dorrance & Paul Ratcliffe
> Cindy Parlow
> Christian Lavers
> Mia Hamm, Hope, Mallory, Megan, Alex and maybe a few college and youth girl players to give their .02 cents as well.  It's time to come together and join hands and make sure all the girls are treated equal and not treated like men.  Give them their due respect due them by showing them a better way to play soccer & show them the money


Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today... Aha-ah...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world... You...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

John Lennon didn’t mention soccer even once.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> Imagine there's no heaven
> It's easy if you try
> No hell below us
> Above us only sky
> Imagine all the people
> Living for today... Aha-ah...
> 
> Imagine there's no countries
> It isn't hard to do
> Nothing to kill or die for
> And no religion, too
> Imagine all the people
> Living life in peace... You...
> 
> You may say I'm a dreamer
> But I'm not the only one
> I hope someday you'll join us
> And the world will be as one
> 
> Imagine no possessions
> I wonder if you can
> No need for greed or hunger
> A brotherhood of man
> Imagine all the people
> Sharing all the world... You...
> 
> You may say I'm a dreamer
> But I'm not the only one
> I hope someday you'll join us
> And the world will live as one
> 
> John Lennon didn’t mention soccer even once.


I love this song.  Soccer is bigger then politics and religion.  Soccer will be the official sport of the new heaven


----------



## MacDre

All this talk about unity has me all into my feelings today.  Let’s all come together like butt cheeks and make it happen!

So now that we are all on the same “sheet of music” and are working towards a common goal, the issue is no longer GDA vs. ECNL ladies and gents.
Rather, the issue is how do we stay competitive Internationally and build our domestic soccer infrastructure?

Seriously folks if we stay “stuck on stupid” and continue with the ECNL vs. GDA debate we’re destined for failure.  
Immediately prior to the Liga MX Femenil break for coronavirus my kids coach posted this:



So, with the development of the youth leagues in Europe AND Mexico, how do we stay relevant and competitive?


----------



## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> All this talk about unity has me all into my feelings today.  Let’s all come together like butt cheeks and make it happen!
> 
> So now that we are all on the same “sheet of music” and are working towards a common goal, the issue is no longer GDA vs. ECNL ladies and gents.
> Rather, the issue is how do we stay competitive Internationally and build our domestic soccer infrastructure?
> 
> Seriously folks if we stay “stuck on stupid” and continue with the ECNL vs. GDA debate we’re destined for failure.
> Immediately prior to the Liga MX Femenil break for coronavirus my kids coach posted this:
> View attachment 6713View attachment 6714
> 
> 
> So, with the development of the youth leagues in Europe AND Mexico, how do we stay relevant and competitive?


The third league that Paul Riley was talking about could be the one where the pathway is pros?


----------



## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> The third league that Paul Riley was talking about could be the one where the pathway is pros?


I hope so...but I think we need more.  For example, when we return from this coronavirus break my 12 year old will be training and competing with Lucero Cuevas and Renae Cuéllar everyday at practice.  She’ll also have access to these first team players during road trips or just for general advice.  I think this is an important part of the developmental process that’s missing from our future plans.
I think the NWSL needs to step up financially and/or bring Liga MX into the fold since their infrastructure is far superior currently.


----------



## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> I hope so...but I think we need more.  For example, when we return from this coronavirus break my 12 year old will be training and competing with Lucero Cuevas and Renae Cuéllar everyday at practice.  She’ll also have access to these first team players during road trips or just for general advice.  I think this is an important part of the developmental process that’s missing from our future plans.
> I think the NWSL needs to step up financially and/or bring Liga MX into the fold since their infrastructure is far superior currently.


Maybe they can have the NWSL academy teams and fully funded girls goat youth league.  Have options for all kids.  My kid wasn't a fan of the play ups with olders.  I do believe for the right player it has huge benefits.  We need options, not mandates by rich dudes.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Where will the money come from?  I love the ideas, but NWSL has zero cash.


----------



## MacDre

Kicker4Life said:


> Where will the money come from?  I love the ideas, but NWSL has zero cash.


Great question.  Maybe it’s time for the MLS to fund a women’s league.  Seems to be working in Europe and Mexico.
Maybe the refusal of the Men’s teams to fund women’s sides like in Europe and Mexico is an example of the sexism in US Soccer that the USWNT is complaining about in their lawsuit.


----------



## myself

MacDre said:


> All this talk about unity has me all into my feelings today.  Let’s all come together like butt cheeks and make it happen!
> 
> So now that we are all on the same “sheet of music” and are working towards a common goal, the issue is no longer GDA vs. ECNL ladies and gents.
> Rather, the issue is how do we stay competitive Internationally and build our domestic soccer infrastructure?
> 
> Seriously folks if we stay “stuck on stupid” and continue with the ECNL vs. GDA debate we’re destined for failure.
> Immediately prior to the Liga MX Femenil break for coronavirus my kids coach posted this:
> View attachment 6713View attachment 6714
> 
> 
> So, with the development of the youth leagues in Europe AND Mexico, how do we stay relevant and competitive?


My Spanish is a little rusty, can I get a translation?


----------



## MacDre

myself said:


> My Spanish is a little rusty, can I get a translation?


In short, Liga MX fully funded their girls program.  The U15’s & U17’s will have the same schedule as the first team; practice, travel, & games.  Liga MX also mandates U17’s receive a minimum of 1,000 first team minutes per tournament.


----------



## Ellejustus

ECNL is a great model to help girls get into college and should be the option for 90% of the players.  When my goat was 12, I wanted pro. However, just like Kicker said, I was told zero, zippo, nada funds available and the real action is college for 99% of us.  After 4 years, it's obvious where all the dough is. Hopefully, those with all the money can share some of it with the top, top female players who want to represent our country and play professionally out of HS.  Make a "Super Travel League" for all the top, top players around the country and make it a "free league" for the 10%. My dd would go the ECNL route and maybe pick up pros after college like Maps kid.  ECNL league fits my kid way better.  Get Trump to put some of that 6 Trillion aside for the ladies.  WNT, YNT and Pros.  Help the top top girls continue to be #1.  MLS and NWSL can also help out some as well.  This is for  U15 and olders.  GDA should just fold their tent and call it a day or join up and help run the "Super Travel League" for the super goats who want pro now.


----------



## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> ECNL is a great model to help girls get into college and should be the option for 90% of the players.  When my goat was 12, I wanted pro. However, just like Kicker said, I was told zero, zippo, nada funds available and the real action is college for 99% of us.  After 4 years, it's obvious where all the dough is. Hopefully, those with all the money can share some of it with the top, top female players who want to represent our country and play professionally out of HS.  Make a "Super Travel League" for all the top, top players around the country and make it a "free league" for the 10%. My dd would go the ECNL route and maybe pick up pros after college like Maps kid.  ECNL league fits my kid way better.  Get Trump to put some of that 6 Trillion aside for the ladies.  WNT, YNT and Pros.  Help the top top girls continue to be #1.  MLS and NWSL can also help out some as well.  This is for  U15 and olders.  GDA should just fold their tent and call it a day or join up and help run the "Super Travel League" for the super goats who want pro now.


I think the money is there.  A quick google search revealed that the MLS is charging 200-350 million for expansion team fees.  If investors are willing to put down that type of bread to start a MLS team, money is no longer an issue in soccer.  Someone is pissing in our face and telling us it’s raining!

MLS has the infrastructure and the money to do substantially more; why aren’t they?


----------



## futboldad1

Seeing his name mentioned in this thread is a reminder that I would not want my DD coached by Anson Dorrance, and neither should you......





__





						Soccer Coach Suffers Setback in Sex Talk Case
					

This article is from the archive of The New York Sun before the launch of its new website in 2022. The Sun has neither altered nor updated such articles but will seek to correct any errors, mis-categorizations or other problems introduced during transfer.




					www.nysun.com


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## Dos Equis

futboldad1 said:


> Seeing his name mentioned in this thread is a reminder that I would not want my DD coached by Anson Dorrance, and neither should you......
> 
> 
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> __
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> 
> Soccer Coach Suffers Setback in Sex Talk Case
> 
> 
> This article is from the archive of The New York Sun before the launch of its new website in 2022. The Sun has neither altered nor updated such articles but will seek to correct any errors, mis-categorizations or other problems introduced during transfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nysun.com


It would appear it was resolved.  Says a lot about UNC as well, given he acknowledged the behavior yet kept his job.


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## oh canada

futboldad1 said:


> Seeing his name mentioned in this thread is a reminder that I would not want my DD coached by Anson Dorrance, and neither should you......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soccer Coach Suffers Setback in Sex Talk Case
> 
> 
> This article is from the archive of The New York Sun before the launch of its new website in 2022. The Sun has neither altered nor updated such articles but will seek to correct any errors, mis-categorizations or other problems introduced during transfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nysun.com


some not very flattering things said about him in this book too:









						Warrior Girls
					

Amy Steadman was destined to become one of the great women's soccer players of her generation. "The best of the best," Parade magazine called her a...




					www.simonandschuster.com.au


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## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> Who are the top voices in girls soccer?  If you can;t get unified and join hands and bring soccer equality to everyone, leave the group please.  We need a circle of commitment and transparency for all to see.  We need this group of leaders to help lead with the PPA group and all the Cal Souths out there and the clubs.  Starts at the top folks.  Forgive and forget and let's start fresh for 2020-2021.  How about this for an idea.  Let everyone be Free Agents. Give the current club til April 30th to sign their current players for next year.  After that, release all the non signed goats as FA and let them take some time to figure out best goat options for 2020-2021 season.  Get the teams together in July and then have a massive local summer tournament for regulation for all the top leagues for the 2020-2021 season.  I want to see GDA and ECNL play against each other throughout the year.  GDA needs to stop with their nonsense that their league is better.  Also, we need to let the winners of the local leagues get a chance to play the top dogs as well.
> My Picks for this collective group
> Paul Riley and Tad Bobak
> Anson Dorrance & Paul Ratcliffe
> Cindy Parlow
> Christian Lavers
> Mia Hamm, Hope, Mallory, Megan, Alex and maybe a few college and youth girl players to give their .02 cents as well.  It's time to come together and join hands and make sure all the girls are treated equal and not treated like men.  Give them their due respect due them by showing them a better way to play soccer & show them the money


OK, disregard AD from the list.  You all get the point by now.  The woman in this country and around the world have been treated as 2nd ever since Adam blamed Eve for his wrong doing.  After that, it looks like Cain killed is bro Abel all because he was jealous or so the story goes


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## Ellejustus

@MyDaughtersAKeeper Hey, can you please share with the group how you PM your concerns to me to my PM box that I didn;t know I had until I got a PM from you Aug 9th, 2019 about outing my dd and that you knew where I lived and what Ellejustus actually stood for and I would be wise to shut up?  You spooked me dude but wtf, that's how some rich dads play life.  I really want to talk with you in front of the whole socal soccer forum family bro.  I don;t think what you did was kind and I took it as a spooky threat.  Maybe you can elaborate what your PM actually was meant to be?  I would appreciate a response.  TY, Acacia's daddy


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## Ellejustus

LA Galaxy launch first Girls' Academy program fully-funded by an MLS side | MLSSoccer.com
					

Galaxy launch fully-funded Girls' Academy program




					www.mlssoccer.com
				




My dd and I were sold this dream big time @MacDre in 2016.  I was sold, told and mislead that all the GDA clubs have to be fully funded.  I got super pumped for the girls.  Finally I said.  Legends was offering full ride, LAFC had Magic and Mia and I was told full ride their too.  Surf was full ride and selling all the GDA clubs had to be fully funded girls programs.  Pats were fully funded.  My question.  What happen to fully funded for all the girl goats?  Kicker says no free rides at Beach and most I talk to actually have to pay to play in the GDA.  Boys DA is fully funded?


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## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> LA Galaxy launch first Girls' Academy program fully-funded by an MLS side | MLSSoccer.com
> 
> 
> Galaxy launch fully-funded Girls' Academy program
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mlssoccer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My dd and I were sold this dream big time @MacDre in 2016.  I was sold, told and mislead that all the GDA clubs have to be fully funded.  I got super pumped for the girls.  Finally I said.  Legends was offering full ride, LAFC had Magic and Mia and I was told full ride their too.  Surf was full ride and selling all the GDA clubs had to be fully funded girls programs.  Pats were fully funded.  My question.  What happen to fully funded for all the girl goats?  Kicker says no free rides at Beach and most I talk to actually have to pay to play in the GDA.  Boys DA is fully funded?


Some of the issues that have been raised are remarkably similar to a few white collar criminal conspiracy cases that I have seen.  The next administration may not be as lenient on pursuing corporate criminals.


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## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> Some of the issues that have been raised are remarkably similar to a few white collar criminal conspiracy cases that I have seen.  The next administration may not be as lenient on pursuing corporate criminals.


How bout this one.  I got recruited back in 98' to a Dot.com start up for sales.  I was known as a door knocker.  Not afraid to be yelled at and told to leave.  Remember those .com liars who took a lot suckers money?  Anyway, I took the signing bonus deal, stock options and left my Yellow Page nest for greener pasture with this new company that looked good from the outside.  Regional VP of Sales moved from Rhode Island and got a place in Newport and his side kick Robin came from PA and was his roommate.  Both dudes played college soccer and the VP played in some weak pro league for one year in France. Anyway, Mark the VP was good looking and single and was a chick magnet.  Drove a brand new leased Mercedes and had a new girl every week.  His big deal package was $300,000 a year back in 98' plus millions in stock when company was bought.  I was asked to sell something that really wasn;t ever going to be there.  I tried for a month until I found out it was a scam.  Anyway, Mark thought my wife was hot and let me know that too.  One day in the boiler room, home boy over heard messa a talking to my buddy about how fun it was trying to get pregnant with my wife.  Super clean and whole sum.  Mark pulls me aside and says, "Hey dude, if you need me to help out getting the wife pregnant let me know." Well, I was already having issues with Mark because he lied to me about this sales opportunity and my old company was begging me to come back. The signing bonus was huge for me to come to the .com opportunity   I told Mark, "you're a loser and don;t ever talk like that to me about my wife." Then I said, "I quit."  He said, "You owe me $$$$$ from the signing bonus."  I said, "Fat chance."  "I also got my job back at the YP with a raise and a promotion to sales manager"  Mark's HR lady sent me some judgement BS the next week.  I took it to a lawyer and he and i had it out. Lawyer asked me what i wanted and i said, "apology from Mark and the fake .com company."  He laughed at me.  I told him, I'll handle this myself.  I called the HR lady and explained to her in detail why i quit.  HR lady said, I'm so sorry and will speak with Mark about this. Please have a very nice day and disregard my judgement threat letter."


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## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> LA Galaxy launch first Girls' Academy program fully-funded by an MLS side | MLSSoccer.com
> 
> 
> Galaxy launch fully-funded Girls' Academy program
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mlssoccer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My dd and I were sold this dream big time @MacDre in 2016.  I was sold, told and mislead that all the GDA clubs have to be fully funded.  I got super pumped for the girls.  Finally I said.  Legends was offering full ride, LAFC had Magic and Mia and I was told full ride their too.  Surf was full ride and selling all the GDA clubs had to be fully funded girls programs.  Pats were fully funded.  My question.  What happen to fully funded for all the girl goats?  Kicker says no free rides at Beach and most I talk to actually have to pay to play in the GDA.  Boys DA is fully funded?


Fully funding the girls was always an unsustainable money-losing proposition. Only fools thought youth girls soccer was a magical “If you build it they will come” industry. A club can develop the greatest U15 girls soccer team in world history, and all it means is the club will soon be bankrupt if those players aren’t paying $10k a year or more to cover the coaching, administration and GDA travel costs.

You will find mental peace in the process only after you accept a couple things. The first is that teenage girls with mad soccer skills provide negative value and are not worth having in a club unless they are paying the club money. The second is that the best, most successful and stable soccer clubs know they are not selling soccer development. They are selling college opportunity, and we should all know from the college admissions scandal that is an extremely valuable commodity. What you are buying is the value of an opportunity for your kid to attend Stanford over UCLA, UCLA over SDSU, or SDSU over community college. Why on earth would a good soccer club just give away that valuable commodity for free and, worse, pay coaches, American Airlines and Marriott more than half a million dollars a year for the “privilege” if coaching these little girls. 

Do piano coaches teach their students for free and buy them pianos because the student is really good? Only dumb soccer people think that a 12 year old girl’s ability to juggle a soccer ball 1000 times provides monetary value to someone else. The reality is that your daughter is priceless only to you, which means you are the one willing to pay the  costs associated with what she means to you.


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## EOTL

MacDre said:


> Some of the issues that have been raised are remarkably similar to a few white collar criminal conspiracy cases that I have seen.  The next administration may not be as lenient on pursuing corporate criminals.


Oh lord. A few clubs promised to make the first year free, and they did. Those clubs complied with their promises.  No one promised GDA would be free forever (read your contract), and only fools believed  clubs would be willing to lose a million dollars a year indefinitely just because your kid can juggle a soccer ball.

If your kid played for a club that funded the GDA the first season, be grateful to the club for receiving that tremendous gift instead of whining that now you need to pay the actual value of the services you are receiving.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> Fully funding the girls was always an unsustainable money-losing proposition. Only fools thought youth girls soccer was a magical “If you build it they will come” industry. A club can develop the greatest U15 girls soccer team in world history, and all it means is the club will soon be bankrupt if those players aren’t paying $10k a year or more to cover the coaching, administration and GDA travel costs.
> 
> You will find mental peace in the process only after you accept a couple things. The first is that teenage girls with mad soccer skills provide negative value and are not worth having in a club unless they are paying the club money. The second is that the best, most successful and stable soccer clubs know they are not selling soccer development. They are selling college opportunity, and we should all know from the college admissions scandal that is an extremely valuable commodity. What you are buying is the value of an opportunity for your kid to attend Stanford over UCLA, UCLA over SDSU, or SDSU over community college. Why on earth would a good soccer club just give away that valuable commodity for free and, worse, pay coaches, American Airlines and Marriott more than half a million dollars a year for the “privilege” if coaching these little girls.
> 
> Do piano coaches teach their students for free and buy them pianos because the student is really good? Only dumb soccer people think that a 12 year old girl’s ability to juggle a soccer ball 1000 times provides monetary value to someone else. The reality is that your daughter is priceless only to you, which means you are the one willing to pay the  costs associated with what she means to you.


It's too bad you think parents are the fools and the dumb ones.  No End of the Line, it was the false and misleading clubs & coaches that lied in their advertising to parents of a dd with a dream.  I won;t stand for being knocked down like that.  It's your opinion, but opinion sucks rocks!!!


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## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> Oh lord. A few clubs promised to make the first year free, and they did. Those clubs complied with their promises.  No one promised GDA would be free forever (read your contract), and only fools believed  clubs would be willing to lose a million dollars a year indefinitely just because your kid can juggle a soccer ball.
> 
> If your kid played for a club that funded the GDA the first season, be grateful to the club for receiving that tremendous gift instead of whining that now you need to pay the actual value of the services you are receiving.


Fools????  Please, share what age your dd is playing. That will help me understand where u are coming from.  Dang, I'm a fool, sucker, took the bait, dumb dumb I was.  Ok, thanks for the kind words on a Saturday.  I'm not grateful dude for the free one year tuition of the new philosophy? How about feeling trapped??????  What's your deal?  I like that you speak your mind, but your mind is one sided.  What about the young girls?  My dd met personally with every top Doc in Socal not named Beach or Albion and Carlsbad SC.  Some, not all fooled her and lied to her.  So she is the dumb one?  Wow!!!!


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## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> Fools????  Please, share what age your dd is playing. That will help me understand where u are coming from.  Dang, I'm a fool, sucker, took the bait, dumb dumb I was.  Ok, thanks for the kind words on a Saturday.  I'm not grateful dude for the free one year tuition of the new philosophy? How about feeling trapped??????  What's your deal?  I like that you speak your mind, but your mind is one sided.  What about the young girls?  My dd met personally with every top Doc in Socal not named Beach or Albion and Carlsbad SC.  Some, not all fooled her and lied to her.  So she is the dumb one?  Wow!!!!


and btw, I spoke to Tad and Surf at the same time 4 years ago.  Tad told me Blues was mandated to find their own fields, Coaches that the GDA approved of and yes, you need to fully fund your GDA teams by a certain time.  My dd, my wife and I sat down with JH and he said the same thing. WC at LAFC said the same thing.  They were told by the higher ups at the Federation that they have to treat the GDA as the same as the boys.  Boys teams are fully funded and the girls must be fully funded.  That is the truth dude.  100%.  I'm the fool?  @MacDre is dumb?  How about some of these coaches, doc and clubs take some responsibilities for their false and misleading marketing tactics?


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## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> It's too bad you think parents are the fools and the dumb ones.  No End of the Line, it was the false and misleading clubs & coaches that lied in their advertising to parents of a dd with a dream.  I won;t stand for being knocked down like that.  It's your opinion, but opinion sucks rocks!!!


How many Coaches told you GDA was going to be Fully Funded for ally the girls?  Did the Gaffer tell you that?  How about TB?


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## Kicker4Life

Kicker4Life said:


> How many Coaches told you GDA was going to be Fully Funded for ally the girls?  Did the Gaffer tell you that?  How about TB?


Never mind I see you answers that question.


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## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> How many Coaches told you GDA was going to be Fully Funded for ally the girls?  Did the Gaffer tell you that?  How about TB?


They all told me the same thing.  Blues barely survived this war. How come no Beach Full rides?


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## MacDre

EOTL said:


> Oh lord. A few clubs promised to make the first year free, and they did. Those clubs complied with their promises.  No one promised GDA would be free forever (read your contract), and only fools believed  clubs would be willing to lose a million dollars a year indefinitely just because your kid can juggle a soccer ball.
> 
> If your kid played for a club that funded the GDA the first season, be grateful to the club for receiving that tremendous gift instead of whining that now you need to pay the actual value of the services you are receiving.


I’m not a prosecutor or whistleblower.  I’m just saying something is shady from top to bottom and I’ve worked with white collar defendants who were getting worked by a pissed off federal prosecutor for less than what I see going on in the youth to professional soccer landscape.
Maybe there’s a valid explanation for why things are the way they are currently.  All I’ve heard is that there isn’t any money and I don’t believe that to be true.
So why can MLS invest in boys academies and not girls?  Who watches the MLS?

It seems to me the women would be a more worthwhile investment for soccer in the USA.  Do we have any domestic stars in the MLS?

We do have several women that are known worldwide though.


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## Ellejustus

Most of the top GDA clubs pitched me my dd pro, YNT and 100% paid for.  Everything paid for   Private trainer, nutritionist, all travel paid for, no team fees or any fees for that matter.  Blues was only about making player a better person and soccer player with hopes of a college deal.  No free rides and told me upfront that they would go out of biz EOTL if the GDA forced them to make it free.  So Tad did speak truth to me


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## espola

Ellejustus said:


> Most of the top GDA clubs pitched me my dd pro, YNT and 100% paid for.  Everything paid for   Private trainer, nutritionist, all travel paid for, no team fees or any fees for that matter.


Was this the pitch being given to every parent?  Or was your dd such a standout?


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## Kicknit22

espola said:


> Was this the pitch being given to every parent?  Or was your dd such a standout?


Maybe he’s just being sarcastic again?? As he put it before, lol!


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## Ellejustus

espola said:


> Was this the pitch being given to every parent?  Or was your dd such a standout?


Well, I don;t know to be honest.  I was told from legends that all top teams in each age group had to be fully funded by a year or two and had to have A and B coaches.  Coach Boyd came out from ASU to run the whole Girls side.  Surf and LAFC said all the players get the full ride.  Pats, all funded.  Maybe my little goat got something extra special just because.  I have no problem telling evryone that we were going for the pro deal and ynt.  Why not, her coach was the youngest US player to sing a pro contract.  We werent talking college folks, we were being sold this new philosophy from Euro. Read the comments of the GDA leaders.  Their not fans of the college game and want a pro pathway.  The problem is not cash flow, the money is taken by all the hoarders just like the toilet Paper.  Some folks want it all I guess


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## Ellejustus

I told everyone here in early July that I was pissed because Maps told me that it;s all about college and not the pros like I was sold.  So many of you made fun of me.  Like I was a fool and dumb to believe the folks at the #1 GDA club in America and whose Doc was on the YNT staff and rand the SD TC and whose coach was on the MNT team as was captain and played pro at 15 years old.  What don;t you understand.  You think they were pitching us a college deal?  Oh please..........Where is all the money going?  My 13 year old was treated so poorly you guys.  I really mean that.  You should have empathy for her and what she had to endure.  Mock me all you want boys.  Hahahahahahahaha......bahhhhhahhahahahahahah.  Time for folks to help those who are innocent and need a voice.


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## Ellejustus

*My money, my money, all my money.  Me me me me me me me  all the way to DA bank!*


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## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> *My money, my money, all my money.  Me me me me me me me  all the way to DA bank!*
> 
> View attachment 6723


Is there someone out there that understands the money issue?  Is there someone that can show me there’s no money in club soccer?  Is there someone that can show me there’s no money in the MLS?  Please.


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## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> Most of the top GDA clubs pitched me my dd pro, YNT and 100% paid for.  Everything paid for   Private trainer, nutritionist, all travel paid for, no team fees or any fees for that matter.  Blues was only about making player a better person and soccer player with hopes of a college deal.  No free rides and told me upfront that they would go out of biz EOTL if the GDA forced them to make it free.  So Tad did speak truth to me


So you admit you are a fool. You disregarded what the one club in SoCal that should be most trusted about the economics of this (Blues) so you could chase rainbows? You thought other people would pour tens of thousands of their own dollars and hundreds of hours of labor over the course of four years into your 13 year old daughter because she could juggle a soccer ball? Yes, you are a fool.


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## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> They all told me the same thing.  Blues barely survived this war. How come no Beach Full rides?


Was never an option nor will it ever be.  “Fully Funded” is, was and always will be the exception not the rule.


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## Ellejustus

LA Galaxy, Earthquakes added to USSF Girls’ Academy – Equalizer Soccer
					

The LA Galaxy and three more teams have been added to U.S. Soccer’s Girls’ Development Academy, bringing the total number of clubs to 74. The first season kicks off in the fall of 2017. Albion SC (San Diego, Calif.), the San Jose Earthquakes (San Jose, Calif.) and United Futbol Academy (Cumming...




					equalizersoccer.com
				



"The LA Galaxy and three more teams have been added to *U.S. Soccer’s Girls’ Development Academy,* bringing the total number of clubs to 74. The first season kicks off in the fall of 2017.
Albion SC (San Diego, Calif.), the San Jose Earthquakes (San Jose, Calif.) and United Futbol Academy (Cumming, Ga.) have also been added to the new league, *which will stage leagues at the U-14/15, U-16/17 and U-18/19 levels.*

Great article in Oct 2016.  It was all about MLS and NWSL and Mia. You can also see clearly what age groups were announced.  GDA announced combo teams at first.  Some clubs, like Surf, said no play ups allowed for a strong combo age team unless US Soccer said.  They said so here from what I can read.  I pulled my dd out of Surf around this time because my goat was lied to numerous times and we were told no chance to play up in the GDA unless Mark said so.  I said, "But Mark, they announced a combo team for 03/04" and he, "oh."  Two months later, the 04's miraculously got their own age band.  It was about the pros!!!


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## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> So you admit you are a fool. You disregarded what the one club in SoCal that should be most trusted about the economics of this (Blues) so you could chase rainbows? You thought other people would pour tens of thousands of their own dollars and hundreds of hours of labor over the course of four years into your 13 year old daughter because she could juggle a soccer ball? Yes, you are a fool.


ok, I'm a fool.  Plus, my dd sucks at juggling so were both fools.........


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## Ellejustus

What it means to be a fool?
a silly or stupid person; a person who lacks judgment or sense. ... a person who has been tricked or deceived into appearing or acting silly or stupid: to make a *fool* of someone.


----------



## EOTL

MacDre said:


> Is there someone out there that understands the money issue?  Is there someone that can show me there’s no money in club soccer?  Is there someone that can show me there’s no money in the MLS?  Please.


I already explained the money issue to you. There is money to be made on the youth girls side so long as the girls pay market rates for the valuable services they are receiving. But if a club gives it away for long, it will soon be out of business.

No club (MLS or otherwise) is going to subsidize a money-losing proposition for long. Some clubs did it for a year because they stupidly thought the initial crushing financial losses would soon be made up by jacking up fees for their 8-13 year olds to subsidize the GDA players, and they would also add hundreds of more little kiddies with parents willing to pay above-market rates just because older kids in the club get to wear a USSF patch and someday their kid might too.  But go figure, increasing fees for younger kids actually causes them to leave and compounds the financial problem. Then it got worse financially when clubs learned USSF had made the travel costs obscene. Some also thought joining GDA and affiliating with USSF would allow them to leapfrog clubs that were succeeding as a result of years of hard work and quality training. In the end, however, hard work and fiscal responsibility work, and fantasizing that vast sums of money will drop out of the sky does not.

What you really seem to be asking is how can you get a piece of the money that exists in girls soccer without doing anything to earn or deserve it. The answer is that you can’t. A 12 year old girl who can juggle a soccer ball has only negative value to clubs unless her parents pay a lot of money. You have two   options: (1) do the work and receive the money; (2) receive the work and pay the money.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> I already explained the money issue to you. There is money to be made on the youth girls side so long as the girls pay market rates for the valuable services they are receiving. But if a club gives it away for long, it will soon be out of business.
> 
> No club (MLS or otherwise) is going to subsidize a money-losing proposition for long. Some clubs did it for a year because they stupidly thought the initial crushing financial losses would soon be made up by jacking up fees for their 8-13 year olds to subsidize the GDA players, and they would also add hundreds of more little kiddies with parents willing to pay above-market rates just because older kids in the club get to wear a USSF patch and someday their kid might too.  But go figure, increasing fees for younger kids actually causes them to leave and compounds the financial problem. Then it got worse financially when clubs learned USSF had made the travel costs obscene. Some also thought joining GDA and affiliating with USSF would allow them to leapfrog clubs that were succeeding as a result of years of hard work and quality training. In the end, however, hard work and fiscal responsibility work, and fantasizing that vast sums of money will drop out of the sky does not.
> 
> What you really seem to be asking is how can you get a piece of the money that exists in girls soccer without doing anything to earn or deserve it. The answer is that you can’t. A 12 year old girl who can juggle a soccer ball has only negative value to clubs unless her parents pay a lot of money. You have two   options: (1) do the work and receive the money; (2) receive the work and pay the money.


I'm a little slow and very slow to read and one big fool.  How come so many foolish little girls want to play soccer and the parents are so stupid to pay mad jack to play?


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## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> I'm a little slow and very slow to read and one big fool.  How come so many foolish little girls want to play soccer and the parents are so stupid to pay mad jack to play?


I never said parents who pay what it costs are fools. Those who expect to get it for free are fools. Because you are slow, I will boil this down to six words: You get what you pay for.


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## Ellejustus

@EOTL can you at least give me a clue on the reasons you drop by here on the socal soccer forum?  I'm getting some scary ass PMs again.  Who are you?  Fact?  Luis?  Be fair dude.  At least with Kicker I know who I'm debating.  Although I'm 100% opposite of him, I have respect for differing views on how competitive soccer should be played.


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## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> I never said parents who pay what it costs are fools. Those who expect to get it for free are fools. Because you are slow, I will boil this down to six words: You get what you pay for.


But it was free, so I got what I was asking for?  Gee, thanks alot.  I'll let my dd know she got what she paid for.


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## Dos Equis

EOTL said:


> What you really seem to be asking is how can you get a piece of the money that exists in girls soccer without doing anything to earn or deserve it. The answer is that you can’t. A 12 year old girl who can juggle a soccer ball has only negative value to clubs unless her parents pay a lot of money. You have two   options: (1) do the work and receive the money; (2) receive the work and pay the money.


I think I may have found a video clip of Ellejustus interviewing with a USSDA club.


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## Ellejustus

This is me @Dos Equis I just want folks to say sorry to my dd and answer my questions.  That's all I want


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## Ellejustus

Dos Equis said:


> I think I may have found a video clip of Ellejustus interviewing with a USSDA club.


Plus, I was interviewing them, not me looking for a job.  You need to get the facts straight dude.  Wrong wrong with your perceptions.  Someday, the girls will be treated fair and with respect. That's my job as dad.  Respect my dd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and all the other girls.


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## MacDre

EOTL said:


> I already explained the money issue to you. There is money to be made on the youth girls side so long as the girls pay market rates for the valuable services they are receiving. But if a club gives it away for long, it will soon be out of business.
> 
> No club (MLS or otherwise) is going to subsidize a money-losing proposition for long. Some clubs did it for a year because they stupidly thought the initial crushing financial losses would soon be made up by jacking up fees for their 8-13 year olds to subsidize the GDA players, and they would also add hundreds of more little kiddies with parents willing to pay above-market rates just because older kids in the club get to wear a USSF patch and someday their kid might too.  But go figure, increasing fees for younger kids actually causes them to leave and compounds the financial problem. Then it got worse financially when clubs learned USSF had made the travel costs obscene. Some also thought joining GDA and affiliating with USSF would allow them to leapfrog clubs that were succeeding as a result of years of hard work and quality training. In the end, however, hard work and fiscal responsibility work, and fantasizing that vast sums of money will drop out of the sky does not.
> 
> What you really seem to be asking is how can you get a piece of the money that exists in girls soccer without doing anything to earn or deserve it. The answer is that you can’t. A 12 year old girl who can juggle a soccer ball has only negative value to clubs unless her parents pay a lot of money. You have two   options: (1) do the work and receive the money; (2) receive the work and pay the money.


I see where you’re coming from in regards to the youth clubs.  Do you think professional clubs in Mexico and Europe have started women’s sides to loose money?  Don’t corporations usually try to maximize profit?  Aren’t Portland Thorns already seeing 7 figure profits?
Again, I think women’s soccer can be much bigger in the USA than men’s soccer.  I have absolutely no desire to watch or attend an MLS game because there a several other superior options. But I do regularly watch and attend women’s professional soccer games.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> So you admit you are a fool. You disregarded what the one club in SoCal that should be most trusted about the economics of this (Blues) so you could chase rainbows? You thought other people would pour tens of thousands of their own dollars and hundreds of hours of labor over the course of four years into your 13 year old daughter because she could juggle a soccer ball? Yes, you are a fool.


----------



## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> But it was free, so I got what I was asking for?  Gee, thanks alot.  I'll let my dd know she got what she paid for.


Yes, it was free for a year because you hitched your wagon to a dumb soccer club that could not sustain it. In the meantime, while your daughter was getting mediocre training and not a lot of college attention, the paying customers over at Blues were gaining on and surpassing your kid, and their coaches were having meaningful conversations on their behalf to Radcliffe and Cromwell.



MacDre said:


> I see where you’re coming from in regards to the youth clubs.  Do you think professional clubs in Mexico and Europe have started women’s sides to loose money?  Don’t corporations usually try to maximize profit?  Aren’t Portland Thorns already seeing 7 figure profits?
> Again, I think women’s soccer can be much bigger in the USA than men’s soccer.  I have absolutely no desire to watch or attend an MLS game because there a several other superior options. But I do regularly watch and attend women’s professional soccer games.


Uh, Portland Thorns are not fully funding their GDA, which just proves my point.  I’m glad you’re dropping maybe $50 a year for an NWSL season ticket package. Another $350 million and they’ll be right there with MLS.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> Yes, it was free for a year because you hitched your wagon to a dumb soccer club that could not sustain it. In the meantime, while your daughter was getting mediocre training and not a lot of college attention, the paying customers over at Blues were gaining on and surpassing your kid, and their coaches were having meaningful conversations on their behalf to Radcliffe and Cromwell.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, Portland Thorns are not fully funding their GDA, which just proves my point.  I’m glad you’re dropping maybe $50 a year for an NWSL season ticket package. Another $350 million and they’ll be right there with MLS.


The dumb soccer club is #1 in DA country.  So I guess we were both dumb.  Yes, all the other blues players have passed my little baby by.  I was such a fool to let her get passed up like that.  Oh well, it's the end of the line for all of us......


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Was never an option nor will it ever be.  “Fully Funded” is, was and always will be the exception not the rule.


So Beach is pay to play only?


----------



## Ellejustus

Look, all of us are on lock down.  Let's talk through all this GDA and ECNL and Pros and have great debates each day.  Ground hog soccer day on the forum everyday.  I know Kicker has other things to do in his house but will look to correct me when I speak out of line.  I'm 53 but I feel old as hell.  I'm ADHD and starting to feel isolated.  I set up nerf hoops and that seems to be helping me.  Life beat me down from 2016-2019.  I think I aged 10 years. I was really cocky about this corona bug.  I'm now at all home all day, every day.  This video helps me stay home because I see these virus monster guys now.  This is serious and I'm staying home.


----------



## sdb

I think a good place to start is by understanding the P&L for soccer clubs. If you are interested in the economics of various club soccer organizations, it's pretty easy to find detailed information via their annual 990 filings since they are non-profits. Register at Guidestar.com and start typing in the names of different clubs. Guess which club below fully funded their GDA program? It's 2017 so only a partial year as GDA started in Sept 2017. I've also attached 2018 for a prominent all girls club.

Club 1


Club 2




2018 for another club


----------



## espola

sdb said:


> I think a good place to start is by understanding the P&L for soccer clubs. If you are interested in the economics of various club soccer organizations, it's pretty easy to find detailed information via their annual 990 filings since they are non-profits. Register at Guidestar.com and start typing in the names of different clubs. Guess which club below fully funded their GDA program? It's 2017 so only a partial year as GDA started in Sept 2017. I've also attached 2018 for a prominent all girls club.
> 
> Club 1
> View attachment 6730
> 
> Club 2
> View attachment 6731
> 
> 
> 
> 2018 for another club
> 
> View attachment 6732


"Guess which club"?  

Those are public documents.  There is no reason to have any fear in posting the sources of them.


----------



## Ellejustus

espola said:


> "Guess which club"?
> 
> Those are public documents.  There is no reason to have any fear in posting the sources of them.


Galaxy?  Pats?  I like online guessing games.


----------



## sdb

Ellejustus said:


> Galaxy?  Pats?  I like online guessing games.


Not fear, just a bad attempt at making it interesting. Galaxy not a non-profit and still funding GDA.


----------



## Ellejustus

sdb said:


> Not fear, just a bad attempt at making it interesting. Galaxy not a non-profit and still funding GDA.


I'm super bad at reading tax reports.  Maybe Blues is one of them?


----------



## Ellejustus

*Super Sunday Today*
I'm hoping to have some good debates today about GDA vs ECNL and why three clubs ruined girls soccer in socal and the rest of the country and truly helped water down the girls soccer product.   I think two of them felt justified in their actions because they think the 9 SW ECNL clubs had a monopoly and would't let the two big egos into the ECNL family.  I don;t see a monopoly at all.  I see jealousy and excuse making.  Let's say I own AC company and I found some HOA communities who really wanted to contract my services in their 9 locations in the Southwest US.  So I find me 8 other contractors who are known to be 5 star Yelpers.  We kick ass and control 60% of all the HOA properties.  However, other Electrical contractors don;t think it's fair and even say things like, "They have a monopoly."  The fact is, ECNL is and was a private business who has something everyone wants (except me and @MacDre, we want Pro) a college deal.  Beach & Legends lost their top players sometimes (some top goats stayed) like AS to Blues after she was a stud at Legends.  Surf only saw a business opportunity and jumped at it and watered down Surf Cup in the process.  Just look at what Surf Cup is today and you can see clearly what youth soccer is all about.


----------



## Ellejustus

@MyDaughtersAKeeper Hello, anyone there?  I re-read your intimidation threat PM again this morning.  I had a vision in my dream last night about why someone would PM something like that and who would do such a thing.  What club is this person with?  Is his/her/both dd truly A Keeper?  Do they know me personally or do they know others at the club that knew me?  I need to confess to everyone that my answers to many of my "Hey, what's going on" in Socal Soccer get revealed to me in my sleep.  I wake up and jump out of bed and race to my computer and look for new PMs.  In July and August of last year, I was hated and laughed at.  People laughed at me when I said the GDA will be no more.  "Hahahahahah" they said.  "Ignore the fool"  Listen all you fathers out their with a teenage girl.  When you treat the WNT as second and then treat the top 13 year olds like they did, it's easy to predict failure.  Woman are on the rise and have a voice in America.  Like I said before, my mother was adopted in 1919 three times until she was finally wanted at 2 years old. She in turn had four of her own and adopted or fostered 8 other little kids.  That is what you call serving others. My wife is my Angel and my dd is my Angel girl.  My son is just steady and chill and he and I are best pals.  He comes home from SDSU bummed out.  I talked with him about how you need to make the most of all this.  He get's a delivery job and made $75 working 3 hours last night, all for shopping for others. He told me this is all working out like you said daddy.  Little did he know I've been a little scared of this country and how it will respond to adversity and what will really happen.  I live each day as if it's my last.  At least with me you know where I stand.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker 4 life: "Nahhh. Even in Quarantine I have more of a life than you."  
EJ: Ok, that helps me understand you better.  Where you from originally?  That is not how locals from the South Bay talk.  I see your Doc is from England so he's not a local either.


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> *Super Sunday Today*
> I'm hoping to have some good debates today about GDA vs ECNL and why three clubs ruined girls soccer in socal and the rest of the country and truly helped water down the girls soccer product.   I think two of them felt justified in their actions because they think the 9 SW ECNL clubs had a monopoly and would't let the two big egos into the ECNL family.  I don;t see a monopoly at all.  I see jealousy and excuse making.  Let's say I own AC company and I found some HOA communities who really wanted to contract my services in their 9 locations in the Southwest US.  So I find me 8 other contractors who are known to be 5 star Yelpers.  We kick ass and control 60% of all the HOA properties.  However, other Electrical contractors don;t think it's fair and even say things like, "They have a monopoly."  The fact is, ECNL is and was a private business who has something everyone wants (except me and @MacDre, we want Pro) a college deal.  Beach & Legends lost their top players sometimes (some top goats stayed) like AS to Blues after she was a stud at Legends.  Surf only saw a business opportunity and jumped at it and watered down Surf Cup in the process.  Just look at what Surf Cup is today and you can see clearly what youth soccer is all about.


To add insult to the ego to the example story, we also recruited their top techs and that pissed off the other non hoa contractors as well.


----------



## Ellejustus




----------



## Ellejustus

@EOTL: "So you admit you are a fool? 
EJ: Yes, I admit I'm one damn fool. 
EOTL: You disregarded what the one club in SoCal that should be most trusted about the economics of this (Blues) so you could chase rainbows? 
EJ:  No, but nice try.  US Soccer changed the birth year in 2016-2017 season, remember?  Her coach at the time Tad Bobak announced he would be taking the 03s, not 04s. Blues had Simone Jackson and a few other stud older 03 Goats. My goat was 4 11' at the time.  Her Blues option was coach Dido and that was a 100% no for my goat or try and find playing time on a super super team that Tad was going to have.  We lived in Temecula and basically we were free agents as were all the other top goat 04s.  if you have time dude, you can see all the top players the year before played on one club and then the next year they were all (except one) on new GDA clubs.  
EOTL:  You thought other people would pour tens of thousands of their own dollars and hundreds of hours of labor over the course of four years into your 13 year old daughter because she could juggle a soccer ball?
EJ: No, you have your assumptions way off bro.  This is what went down homie.  I was told that Surf was the new way of how to play soccer and this GDA was going to spring board the girls to the pros.  All goats from socal needed to be trained in possession soccer I was told.  My dd was offered the first of what has become many scholarships that the GDA gave out to help the top goats make the YNT and go pro.  I was told the thousands of dollors would come from the Federations scholarship fund and some from the club.  My wife's sisters boy play Boys DA for FCGS.  They get it all paid for every year.  Not one year and be grateful and keep your mouth shut or else we will black ball your ass.  No, it was understood it would be fully funded.  Why would I think at the time the girls would be told to be grateful for the one year free ride?  
EOTL: Yes, you are a fool
EJ: No eotl. you're clueless and have no idea what your talking about.  I do because I was there talking with all the top Docs in 2016.  I was interviewing them with my dd, no us looking for a freaking job.  I see now what's wrong with most of you. You were obviously not in the talks that I had.  Your information is weak and false and misleading to make me be a fool.  I know who the fools are in this place


----------



## Ellejustus

@EOTL , just so I super clear with you and @Dos Equis.  In 2015 and 2016 and 2017, I never once called a Doc or owner of a club to look for a job for my goat.  They called me looking for a job and all free too.  I mean everything free.  Does that make any sense to both of you?  Have you ever had all the top Docs in socal call you to offer your dd everything for free so they can train for the YNT and the pros?  Please share your recruiting process for your goat with all of us.  Please, I'm dying to hear.  @Kicker4Life got recruited by the Tad and the Gaffer too but it wasn;t his flavor.  He likes other flavors and I know what kind flavor too


----------



## timmyh

This forum completely sucks now. EJ has ruined it.


----------



## Ellejustus

timmyh said:


> This forum completely sucks now. EJ has ruined it.


Timmy is back.  What up dude?  This forum is dead and full of panic.  Let's stay alive everyone.  EJ ruined the forum again? Make it better Timmy.  Your takes are weak.  I came here in July and it was weak sauce here.  All about college and Unicorns and those chasing fairy tails and rainbow unicorns with flowers.  No, this should all be about who the top goats are and help them challenge the other top goats for WNT and the pros.  We are falling behind the other top countries.  Wake up.  DPL is not the answer on how to find the hidden talent in the weeds in America.  The talent is hidden in the poorer communities and for those who hunger and thirst for true competition.  This whole soccer sport is weak.  Weak as in really weak because everyone thinks thier kid is all that when the fact is, only a few top top players.  Map said it best


----------



## Kicknit22

From the standpoint of, there’s not much of anything going on to discuss, it does suck.  But, the comic relief of imagining someone sitting at the computer typing out a full conversation he’s having with himself, Sure helps the stay at home order. Go on with your bad self, EJ.  The more you extol, the more you reveal. And the more the reveal, the funnier it becomes.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicknit22 said:


> From the standpoint of, there’s not much of anything going on to discuss, it does suck.  But, the comic relief of imagining someone sitting at the computer typing out a full conversation he’s having with himself, Sure helps the stay at home order. Go on with your bad self, EJ.  The more you extol, the more you reveal. And the more the reveal, the funnier it becomes.


Cool, I'm glad your reading my dd story and all the lies that lie in the middle of the truth somewhere.  Let me say to all of you:  Money and the power of it is shifting hands as we speak.  It takes time to do this.  The America you knew is no longer.  Its going to be way better for the girls and that's really good in my book of life.  I'm revealing the mistreatment of little girls at the hands of greedy men.  @Kicknit22 are you cousins with Kicker?  Do you like how the girls have been treated sir or mam?  How about poor people in poorer communities?  So funny, isn;t it?  I have to bring comedy because most of you are clueless.


----------



## Ellejustus

The truth hurts.  Speaking the truth in love is hard to do and I'm sure I fall short.  I don;t hate anymore which is a good feeling.  I just don;t like how these girls have been treated all these years.  Can't you see?


----------



## MacDre

EOTL said:


> I never said parents who pay what it costs are fools. Those who expect to get it for free are fools. Because you are slow, I will boil this down to six words: You get what you pay for.


I haven’t paid for anything but maybe that’s why my kid juggles like Dembele:





HOWEVER, she can do a helluva Rondo and I think rondo’s are much more important and game like than juggling.  I’ve yet to see a pro juggle doing a game but I see rondo’s, triangles, diamonds etc. all the time by top players on top teams.
Maybe I have a warped perspective because ALL of my friends and family that like sports usually succeed at becoming professional athletes.

I do not understand the whole monetizing of youth sports.  Your comment troubled me so I contacted my childhood friend Hannibal Navies and asked him how he and others in the NFL felt about the monetizing of youth sports and they don’t like it.  They think your comments are ridiculous.  They think if they were exposed to soccer instead of smash mouth football as a youth our MNT would’ve won a world cup by now.
So Hannibal would like to know if you are on dope or dog-food?


----------



## Ellejustus

@MacDre the big knock on my goat was she wouln;t home school and juggle against a wall and juggle by hersself through lifeless cone heads and never talk with boys or even think about a boyfriend. This whole juggling act is freaking over.  I have yet to see a pro go coast to coast juggling their way to a goal.  What a joke all this is.  All dog food!!!  I'm like Rodney without the coke!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

BTW, as I talk to myself, I'm putting a letter together for the new leadership team at USSF.  I'm getting all my Facts together so I can share with them how my dd was treated by the men that were in charge. Their mostly gone from my investigation. Hopefully some accountability will happen and true measures of success will be afforded to ALL girls who want to try their luck at the YNT, WNT and the pros.  ECNL is expensive for most but they have a little nitch in the market.  We need a pro market for the best of the best girls so they can skip college if they want to.  I bet me and @MacDre could start a pro girls team in SD or OC and make it profitable in a few years and we would build a winner.  College players can stay in college and join later. My dd always said she needs a reason to go outside all by her lonesome and juggle and go through cones all day by herself with zero friends and take shot after shot all alone except for a private trainer dude. Show her respect and talk with her respectfully without lies that come out of every other word from Docs mouth.  My dd is a true body languange expert and a lie detector.  I;m not kidding.  She got that skill set from her old man,  Really, show her respect and by God I bet she will put in the time to train.  She won;t do all that for just getting admitted to some D1 school.  That's a done deal already.


----------



## Ellejustus

Also, as I speak out loud to myself, I want to take it deep today.  The treatment of the girls is just one of the problems going on in youth soccer.  I will sit back outside looking at the canyon and talk to myself some more and see what EJ, Justus, New wave dave and soccerhelper think about all the other misdeeds of these dudes.


----------



## Kicknit22

Ellejustus said:


> Cool, I'm glad your reading my dd story and all the lies that lie in the middle of the truth somewhere.  Let me say to all of you:  Money and the power of it is shifting hands as we speak.  It takes time to do this.  The America you knew is no longer.  Its going to be way better for the girls and that's really good in my book of life.  I'm revealing the mistreatment of little girls at the hands of greedy men.  @Kicknit22 are you cousins with Kicker?  Do you like how the girls have been treated sir or mam?  How about poor people in poorer communities?  So funny, isn;t it?  I have to bring comedy because most of you are clueless.


No, Kicker is not my cousin.  At least I don’t think so? Ray, is that you? Lol!  I have over 60 cousins, so I guess it’s possible.  As @EOTL stated, expecting something for free, is where you’re going to rub a lot of people wrong.  It was a very conscious decision to move to CLUB soccer.  Knowing full well the costs.  I’ll be perfectly honest with you, I was offered (not my kid) free registration at one point.  Now, personally, I just don’t believe in a free ride for youth sports.  Unless it was free for everyone.  My response was, no thanks. There were certainly others that could use the break. Call me naive, but up to that point, I thought it was a need based type of thing, anyway.   Don’t get me wrong, there’s always been those people that believed there kiddo was such the shit, that they expected it and shopped around for a club that would give them free rides.  As if they deserved it.  Pathetic really.  I would never teach my kids to expect ANYTHING for free.  I do, however, teach them to work hard and the fruits of your labor will be rewarding on many levels.  I take a lot of pride in seeing it all play out for them.


----------



## Ellejustus

@Kicknit22 .  What makes you think I was expecting something for free?  I paid my fair share up through 2015-2016.  Tad Bobak offers nothing for free.  I paid and drove 1 hour and 15 minutes from Temecula to the ranch.  Pay to play is what I did because of who Tad is.  I got my monies worth.  When the age change and GDA was announced, my phone rang of the hook.  Legends, Surf and LAFC all said this, "We want your dd at our club because she is really good and we can develop her for YNT and the Pros.  No college came out of any of these Docs mouths.  Why would they to an 11 year old stud?  They preached the same thing.  Leave da Blues for the fully funded GDA.  The girls are now boys and have everything free too.  I wasn;t going around looking for a free handout dude.  I will say I needed the free ride and at first I thought it was the way of the future and was very helpful since I got my revenue stream taken around the same time.  I just didnt like feeling trapped and bullied by some young fake coach who thought he was the way, the truth and the life.  I only got free for 6 months and that's it.  That be the story dude.  What GDA club ur goat at bro?


----------



## Copa9

[QUOTE="Ellejustus, post: 314479, member: 440"
Timmy is back.  What up dude?  This forum is dead and full of panic.  Let's stay alive everyone.  EJ ruined the forum again? Make it better Timmy.  Your takes are weak.  I came here in July and it was weak sauce here.  All about college and Unicorns and those chasing fairy tails and rainbow unicorns with flowers.  No, this should all be about who the top goats are and help them challenge the other top goats for WNT and the pros.  We are falling behind the other top countries.  Wake up.  DPL is not the answer on how to find the hidden talent in the weeds in America.  The talent is hidden in the poorer communities and for those who hunger and thirst for true competition.  This whole soccer sport is weak.  Weak as in really weak because everyone thinks thier kid is all that when the fact is, only a few top top players.  Map said it best 
[/QUOTE]
First generation parents miss the point of the youth soccer world.


----------



## Ellejustus

Most of you are drive by trolls who are afraid of their own shadow and are just avatars and supporters of the "25%ters guarantee start" and "pay for play time" in the GDA.  Or, you cheated and gamed the system like one does when he and his buddies cheat at the poker table. Fear is a disease if you haven;t noticed.  Tell us who you are and why you think I'm a fool, dumb, stupid, comical, your life is better than mine (wow, your so cool, ur life is better than my life).  How would one even know that answer is a trip to me unless they know me more than I thought .  I love my life today btw 

Cheaters never prosper truly.  Who likes to go to bed a "winner" when in reality they cheated and played the brown nose game to get the prize.  All alone at night going to bed in the darkness knowing what you did was really cheating.  Times are changing for the new America and I can;t wait.


----------



## Ellejustus




----------



## Kicknit22

Oh, I’m sorry. I logged into this thread late. Let me go back a few pages and re-read your posts to better understand you.  Check back later.   Btw, I’m happy to say,  GDA and club days are in my rear view.  My kid still chasing dreams, while achieving some along the way.  Looking forward to college ball.


----------



## Kicknit22

How the hell did cheating become part of this?  Dude!  Maybe stop at 3 cups of coffee.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicknit22 said:


> Oh, I’m sorry. I logged into this thread late. Let me go back a few pages and re-read your posts to better understand you.  Check back later.   Btw, I’m happy to say,  GDA and club days are in my rear view.  My kid still chasing dreams, while achieving some along the way.  Looking forward to college ball.


Go back to July 6th I think.  That's when I come on the scene.  It was all by design and I had to get all my information to answer my, "Hey, what's going on with youth soccer."  Please read up bro.  Its about my dd and other dds.


----------



## Ellejustus

*The Verdict is in...........Guilty!!!!!  A new day is coming.  Be patient everyone *


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicknit22 said:


> Oh, I’m sorry. I logged into this thread late. Let me go back a few pages and re-read your posts to better understand you.  Check back later.   Btw, I’m happy to say,  GDA and club days are in my rear view.  My kid still chasing dreams, while achieving some along the way.  Looking forward to college ball.


I hope she has fun playing college ball.  Nothing wrong with that and it's a great accomplishment.  I think college and churches are in for some big changes in the future.  The trade industry is huge now btw.  No need to go to college and spend $150,000 getting a Liberal Arts degree or some degree that is outdated and is of no use in the new America that is coming to a city near you.  Or, your dd can spend 15+ years playing soccer so she can get a college degree and hopefully a job and then marry the right person.  I have some friends who are having a hard...........disregard, it's too sad to share on here.  Read up kick 22 and let me know if you think I'm still a nut job.  Peace


----------



## Ellejustus

General Zod does come back for one last try.  However, Superman is too smart and out smarts the dummies and fools  Hahahahahahahha.....bahahabbbbbbbhahhaaaaaa!!!  Karma is real folks


----------



## Ellejustus

Here's the real situation folks.  You know what, forget what I think.  Let's see what Paul has to say. I like this guy and he seems fair and objective.








						NC COURAGE'S PAUL RILEY ON THE DA VS HIGH SCHOOL - WHICH IS BETTER? • SoccerToday
					

Diane Scavuzzo of SoccerToday interviewed North Carolina head coach Paul Riley prior to the 2019 NWSL College Draft in Chicago.




					www.soccertoday.com
				



He went all in ECNL I think so someone isn;t listening to some smart soccer gurus.  This was a while ago too. Big mistake.  Highlights:

Diane Scavuzzo caught up with North Carolina Courage head coach *Paul Riley*, *NWSL 2018 Coach of the Year* at the NWSL College Draft and discussed the big question:
Are we doing enough to develop our next World Cup winners? The biggest controversy in elite soccer today is over the U.S. Soccer Development Academy’s *strong preference *(wrong choice of words imho.  Forced, mandated or not allowed to play unless you get waiver for private school kids) that their players not participate in High School soccer. While this has existed on the Boys side of the DA with minimal resistance, there is *overwhelming pressure on the Girls side to allow participation in High School’s soccer programs.*

The DA needs to be adaptive with a new approach to high school. 

The boys coming out of DA have the chance to go straight to MLS with homegrown players becoming more and more normal.

In the girls game, it’s *very rare *a 17-year-old makes one of the NWSL teams. We are about 10 years behind MLS. 

Therefore it’s all well and good talking about developing World Class players (a pipe dream) but we need to be realistic that* 99.9%* of female players are going to college, not the pro league. So we need a detailed plan to provide our players with every opportunity we can to grow their game.
The best competitive environment is where we will grow better players.
I
_Diane Scavuzzo: What do you think about players being able to play high school soccer?_

*Paul Riley:* I think this is important because otherwise, the clubs are going to continue to be splinted if we don’t tweak the issue of high school soccer. I’ve got some ideas on how to reach a compromise.

_Diane Scavuzzo: In simple terms, what is the value of high school soccer?_

*Paul Riley:* Socialization. Leadership. While I think it’s not great for the top players, for the next group of players,*(my dd and the rest of the 99.9% of us) *it is really good. They get to become focal points. Maybe they play out of position, but they get to be a leader. *(One problem that I witnessed Paul was that a lot of girls were ball hogs in the GDA, all trying to be that .1%ter.  I have a question to coach Paul or to anyone on here. Please define "top players"  What awards or qualifications make up a "top player" so they can train full time and go pro?  I'm assuming the .1% are the "top players" he's talking about or are there maybe 1% top players?  I like those odds a little better. 100 to 1 you have a chance probably and maybe take the chance and work hard at the training 4 days a week with just one game. How much $$$ we talking about Paul if dd makes the pros in 5 years?) *

The negative about high school ball is that some players play at good high schools and some don’t. * (I agree, just like American football.  My school was in a tough league and we got killed.  It happens, not sure it's a negative except for the .1% of the top goats.)*

The question should really be who wants to train full time and who doesn’t. * (I agree and also how much they can get paid to go for full time and what are the odds of making it pro and make some dough.  .1% players make it pro and some dough is not promising.  The rest go off to college.  I hope we can fix the odds because that's not worth going full time imho). *And that is a decision for the player and her coach. *(Or, who thinks their in the top .1%.* *I think I had a better chance of playing semi pro hoops in Istanbul back in 1988)*







_
_


----------



## Ellejustus

The Real Situation is GDA vs ECNL Toxic War.


----------



## Ellejustus




----------



## Ellejustus

Super Dave Slam Dunk Training.  He helped develop Americas finest dunkers back in the 80s.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> Super Dave Slam Dunk Training.  He helped develop Americas finest dunkers back in the 80s.


What is that...26 unanswered posts today alone?

The gift that keeps on giving...thank you!


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> What is that...26 unanswered posts today alone?
> 
> The gift that keeps on giving...thank you!


PMs bro.  That's my game....lol!


----------



## Ellejustus

*Motivated Monday or Monday Blues?*

I am super* motivated *to make this day a special day.  No Monday Blues for this dad of two.  I'm working on my letter to Cindy and the new leadership team over at USSF headquarters.  I think I might get my questions answered finally.  

*The Girls Youth Soccer War of 2016*​
*The battle for Socal:  GDA/No HS Soccer vs ECNL and HS Soccer*

Dear Cindy Parlow Cone, my name is Bill.  I'm the proud papa of a 16 year old girl student athlete/soccer player.  The last four years of soccer has left this dad scratching his head and trying to get his questions answered.  I'm asking for some help Cindy to see if you would be willing to find my answers.  I have also decided to keep my questions to only 5 important ones, although I have way more than that.  My questions are from me and a group of Southern California Parents who have been bamboozled by a few bad actors................to be continued with the help of my dear forum friends. 
What does being bamboozled mean?
verb (used with object), bam·boo·zled, bam·boo·zling. to deceive or get the better of (someone) by trickery, flattery, or the like; humbug; hoodwink (often followed by into): They *bamboozled* us into joining the club. to perplex; mystify; confound.

Before I finish my letter, I will encourage all of you on the forum to PM me your own questions you have and I will see which 5 are the most popular. I know from a few of you which two are the top ones. I hope to get this out to her by Friday of this week.  BTW, life is going to get better and we will all come back better and do better in a new America and improved new world, right?  A world where the girls will be treated with respect and honor?  The old world order has treated the female very bad and I don;t think God likes that imho and neither do I.  The new world order is where the female will be equal to the male.  I know one mom that gave her traveling husband divorce papers last week.  She finally did it, she finally found the strength to get out of the abuse and being treated like a house slave.  This guy acted like he was the King!!! I did a lot of traveling back in the day and there's nothing wrong with that.  This situation was dark and I'll just leave it at that.  Free the woman and let them shine!!!!!


----------



## Soccer43

A piece of advance if you write your letter.  Keep it simple and to the point.  If you ramble on and on and meander and rant through all the topics in your life like you do on this forum she won’t even read it


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccer43 said:


> A piece of advance if you write your letter.  Keep it simple and to the point.  If you ramble on and on and meander and rant through all the topics in your life like you do on this forum she won’t even read it


ok, thanks soccer professor   I like a lot about you 43 and what you stand for.  I ramble to get attention and I have the attention I've been waiting for.


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccer43 said:


> A piece of advance if you write your letter.  Keep it simple and to the point.  If you ramble on and on and meander and rant through all the topics in your life like you do on this forum she won’t even read it


Do you have at least one question in your mind?


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> ok, thanks soccer professor   I like a lot about you 43 and what you stand for.  I ramble to get attention and I have the attention I've been waiting for.


In fact, lawyers hate me for the very reason you said no one would take me serious.


----------



## rainbow_unicorn

MacDre said:


> I haven’t paid for anything but maybe that’s why my kid juggles like Dembele:
> HOWEVER, she can do a helluva Rondo and I think rondo’s are much more important and game like than juggling.  I’ve yet to see a pro juggle doing a game but I see rondo’s, triangles, diamonds etc. all the time by top players on top teams.





Ellejustus said:


> @MacDre the big knock on my goat was she wouln;t home school and juggle against a wall and juggle by hersself through lifeless cone heads and never talk with boys or even think about a boyfriend. This whole juggling act is freaking over.  I have yet to see a pro go coast to coast juggling their way to a goal.  What a joke all this is.  All dog food!!!  I'm like Rodney without the coke!!!


I have seen players that can juggle well but are not that good.  But I have never seen a really good soccer player not be able to juggle well.  The best players have the ball at their feet all of the time and everything looks natural/effortless (including juggling).


----------



## Ellejustus

rainbow_unicorn said:


> I have seen players that can juggle well but are not that good.  But I have never seen a really good soccer player not be able to juggle well.  The best players have the ball at their feet all of the time and everything looks natural/effortless (including juggling).


The best average "best player" in these watered down leagues are ball hogs.  That's why they keep the ball and look good at doing it.  Look with your eyes and see. The defense in today's youth socal leagues is weak at best.  Most of the top players have to play CM so they can look good juggling the ball and doing their tricks.  However, when Dunn or #5 from UCLA puts on the heat, those little tricks go out the window and what you thought were stupid cones were actually Dunn.  Juggling is easy if that's all you do in the back yard by yourself.  I made my dd get to 200 for $100 to just prove my case.  She did it when she was 13   I agree top top players should be able to do it all.  My dd is not top top, just top right now.  However, the good news is if she takes juggling a little more serious then surfing, she has a a chance to be top top I think.


----------



## MacDre

rainbow_unicorn said:


> I have seen players that can juggle well but are not that good.  But I have never seen a really good soccer player not be able to juggle well.  The best players have the ball at their feet all of the time and everything looks natural/effortless (including juggling).


I’m sure my player could juggle well if that was our emphasis.  I see juggling as “drill and kill” and my goal has always been for my kid to have way more fun than any other kid.
My kid spends tons of time with the ball she just doesn’t practice juggling.  I think the goal is to be comfortable with the ball in a game like situation and I am not sure if juggling accomplishes that.
I’ve seen several “freestylers” that were horrible soccer players because they couldn’t handle the pressure.

Who cares if you can juggle, if you can’t Rondo.  If you can Rondo, I promise you juggling does NOT matter.


----------



## Dos Equis

rainbow_unicorn said:


> I have seen players that can juggle well but are not that good.  But I have never seen a really good soccer player not be able to juggle well.  The best players have the ball at their feet all of the time and everything looks natural/effortless (including juggling).


A distinction should be made between juggling, and the ability to comfortably control/receive the ball at your feet, move with the ball, and possess a good first touch.  The former can be incorrectly interpreted as freestyle juggling that bears little resemblance to movement or conditions that would be encountered/required in any soccer competition.  World class players generally possess a great touch, and focus on that.


----------



## timbuck

Ellejustus said:


> *Motivated Monday or Monday Blues?*
> 
> I am super* motivated *to make this day a special day.  No Monday Blues for this dad of two.  I'm working on my letter to Cindy and the new leadership team over at USSF headquarters.  I think I might get my questions answered finally.
> 
> *The Girls Youth Soccer War of 2016*​
> *The battle for Socal:  GDA/No HS Soccer vs ECNL and HS Soccer*
> 
> Dear Cindy Parlow Cone, my name is Bill.  I'm the proud papa of a 16 year old girl student athlete/soccer player.  The last four years of soccer has left this dad scratching his head and trying to get his questions answered.  I'm asking for some help Cindy to see if you would be willing to find my answers.  I have also decided to keep my questions to only 5 important ones, although I have way more than that.  My questions are from me and a group of Southern California Parents who have been bamboozled by a few bad actors................to be continued with the help of my dear forum friends.
> What does being bamboozled mean?
> verb (used with object), bam·boo·zled, bam·boo·zling. to deceive or get the better of (someone) by trickery, flattery, or the like; humbug; hoodwink (often followed by into): They *bamboozled* us into joining the club. to perplex; mystify; confound.
> 
> Before I finish my letter, I will encourage all of you on the forum to PM me your own questions you have and I will see which 5 are the most popular. I know from a few of you which two are the top ones. I hope to get this out to her by Friday of this week.  BTW, life is going to get better and we will all come back better and do better in a new America and improved new world, right?  A world where the girls will be treated with respect and honor?  The old world order has treated the female very bad and I don;t think God likes that imho and neither do I.  The new world order is where the female will be equal to the male.  I know one mom that gave her traveling husband divorce papers last week.  She finally did it, she finally found the strength to get out of the abuse and being treated like a house slave.  This guy acted like he was the King!!! I did a lot of traveling back in the day and there's nothing wrong with that.  This situation was dark and I'll just leave it at that.  Free the woman and let them shine!!!!!


I think you are better off writing something to Cal-South (Johnnie Garza) and try to get changes made on a local level.  I'd start with tryouts, state/national cup, club tournaments, referees and sideline behavior.


----------



## Ellejustus

timbuck said:


> I think you are better off writing something to Cal-South (Johnnie Garza) and try to get changes made on a local level.  I'd start with tryouts, state/national cup, club tournaments, referees and sideline behavior.


I'm one to go for the top of the pyramid first.  Cal South are the victims too imho.  I'll chat with them later.  I do love your question on tryouts and sideline behavior though.


----------



## Ellejustus

Dos Equis said:


> A distinction should be made between juggling, and the ability to comfortably control/receive the ball at your feet, move with the ball, and possess a good first touch.  The former can be incorrectly interpreted as freestyle juggling that bears little resemblance to movement or conditions that would be encountered/required in any soccer competition.  World class players generally possess a great touch, and focus on that.


Collecting and possessing the ball is #1 and if you can;t do that, your bye bye for top top considerations.  I love that.  Now, who has someone like a Dunn coming at you from all angles all day, everyday at practice?  How about someone like #5 at UCLA?  I'm talking about at practice and in these weak league games?  No one is because their aren;t that many top top players.  The last four years took the top players and spread them all around the country with division and war like talk from the adult men running the two leagues.  Weak sauce of competition is what we gots. It's the truth.


----------



## Ellejustus

Let's not all forget this question and answer.

Q. Why was the GDA created in the first place?

A.  To develop world class players (top top players) to play for WNT & Pro.  Not for college.  Read what the leaders at the time had to say about college ball and the barf that is played there.  It's rugby at many of these schools and you all know it.  Map don;t lie.  My eyes don;t lie.  I watched with my own eyes.  Talk about Kickball, please.  It's one big kickball league because that's what one's do when they can;t play the game right.  They get physical and kick the ball the hell away from the top top players.  That's why the top top need something else quickly.....


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> The best average "best player" in these watered down leagues are ball hogs.  That's why they keep the ball and look good at doing it.  Look with your eyes and see. The defense in today's youth socal leagues is weak at best.  Most of the top players have to play CM so they can look good juggling the ball and doing their tricks.  However, when Dunn or #5 from UCLA puts on the heat, those little tricks go out the window and what you thought were stupid cones were actually Dunn.  Juggling is easy if that's all you do in the back yard by yourself.  I made my dd get to 200 for $100 to just prove my case.  She did it when she was 13   I agree top top players should be able to do it all.  My dd is not top top, just top right now.  However, the good news is if she takes juggling a little more serious then surfing, she has a a chance to be top top I think.


 Did you just say "I made my dd get to 200 for $100 to just prove my case. She did it when she was 13?" That's a red flag and alarming. Did you ever think she's just doing it for $100 and not because she wants to juggled?


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> Did you just say "I made my dd get to 200 for $100 to just prove my case. She did it when she was 13?" That's a red flag and alarming. Did you ever think she's just doing it for $100 and not because she wants to juggled?


She absolutely did it only for the $100.  That's my point.  Carli Loyd has a cool stay at home video she just put out.  She gets paid big bucks to juggle all day.


----------



## Ellejustus




----------



## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> Let's not all forget this question and answer.
> 
> Q. Why was the GDA created in the first place?
> 
> A.  To develop world class players (top top players) to play for WNT & Pro.  Not for college.  Read what the leaders at the time had to say about college ball and the barf that is played there.  It's rugby at many of these schools and you all know it.  Map don;t lie.  My eyes don;t lie.  I watched with my own eyes.  Talk about Kickball, please.  It's one big kickball league because that's what one's do when they can;t play the game right.  They get physical and kick the ball the hell away from the top top players.  That's why the top top need something else quickly.....


That part!


----------



## Dos Equis

These critical comments on women's college soccer are fascinating.  My experience, and most of those who have daughters who have participated in and/or finished this process, are that the best girls/womens coaches I have encountered are in college soccer.  Many are able to teach multiple styles of play, and are adept at implementing them as the game situation warrants.  

So the criticism is often a product of the mismatches that often occur in the NCAA, and the style of play coaches employ to try to improve their chance of winning against a team with, frankly, more talent. News alert -- those mismatches and resulting less "beautifiul" play occur at the national level just as much. These include a disruptive, physical style of play with a high press (i.e. Spain against the WNT in the 2019 World Cup, committing 18 fouls to our 4), or the physical bunker mentality with direct counterattacking (i.e Sweden in the 2016 Olympics, also committing 15 fouls to our 4).

I watched the NWSL last year, more than I would care to admit, and enjoyed it.  I saw a lot of direct play, a bunch of mismatches, some very physical soccer.   It reminded me a lot of the over 100 NCAA women's games I have watched. Actually, most Stanford and UCLA games exhibit more skill in passing and possession than NWSL games.   

Crap all you want to on the college game, but spare me any claim that there is some mythical land of soccer where women are paid well, they play only possession, coaches don't favor speed and athleticism, don't encourage their superstars to be selfish, but instead all the coaches prioritize teamwork and soccer IQ when building their rosters.


----------



## MacDre

Dos Equis said:


> These critical comments on women's college soccer are fascinating.  My experience, and most of those who have daughters who have participated in and/or finished this process, are that the best girls/womens coaches I have encountered are in college soccer.  Many are able to teach multiple styles of play, and are adept at implementing them as the game situation warrants.
> 
> So the criticism is often a product of the mismatches that often occur in the NCAA, and the style of play coaches employ to try to improve their chance of winning against a team with, frankly, more talent. News alert -- those mismatches and resulting less "beautifiul" play occur at the national level just as much. These include a disruptive, physical style of play with a high press (i.e. Spain against the WNT in the 2019 World Cup, committing 18 fouls to our 4), or the physical bunker mentality with direct counterattacking (i.e Sweden in the 2016 Olympics, also committing 15 fouls to our 4).
> 
> I watched the NWSL last year, more than I would care to admit, and enjoyed it.  I saw a lot of direct play, a bunch of mismatches, some very physical soccer.   It reminded me a lot of the over 100 NCAA women's games I have watched. Actually, most Stanford and UCLA games exhibit more skill in passing and possession than NWSL games.
> 
> Crap all you want to on the college game, but spare me any claim that there is some mythical land of soccer where women are paid well, they play only possession, coaches don't favor speed and athleticism, don't encourage their superstars to be selfish, but instead all the coaches prioritize teamwork and soccer IQ when building their rosters.


Dude, you’re getting caught up in the weeds.  I’m simply saying that our girls are suffering from low expectations at all levels.  I also understand athleticism is important.  But, I don’t understand why most of our athletes suck at soccer.


----------



## MacDre

I wont be selfish and take up any of the 5 questions but maybe someone else will be interested in formulating a question after I share my personal experience.

On one hand I think maybe we should have more than 1 National team because there are too many people in the USA.  But then on the other hand, I think we’re good the way we are because of low soccer participation rates in the USA.  My kid qualifies for the following National teams:

USA (pop. 368 million);
UK-has 4 teams (pop. 68 million)
Bahamas (pop. 350 thousand)
Mexico (pop. 129 million)

As you can see we have we have a lot more people than other countries.
In Europe, many countries are smaller than our largest states.  So, do y’all think a state like California (pop. 40 million) should have their own WNT similar to England (pop. 56 million) or Scotland (pop. 5.5 million)?


----------



## Ellejustus

@MacDre very slow learners here bro.  There here for college connection and promises of play time only I guess.  Socal college only forum and if you think you have a fat chance at da pros, your stupid and one damm fool.  I just want a league (plus HS in between for those who have social issues and have leadership skills like being ASB HS Sports Commissioner.  Good luck running for that position not playing for the school in sports.......lol, what a joke this is   Anyway, we need a pro youth travel league, like now, like 2020-2021 season.  My dd makes the teams in Socal.  I showed her this picture last week and she hasn;t stopped asking me to take her to the hs school for PE and some shooting and running.  No one within 100 ft of us either so were being super careful.


----------



## Ellejustus

Dos Equis said:


> These critical comments on women's college soccer are fascinating.  My experience, and most of those who have daughters who have participated in and/or finished this process, are that the best girls/womens coaches I have encountered are in college soccer.  Many are able to teach multiple styles of play, and are adept at implementing them as the game situation warrants.
> 
> So the criticism is often a product of the mismatches that often occur in the NCAA, and the style of play coaches employ to try to improve their chance of winning against a team with, frankly, more talent. News alert -- those mismatches and resulting less "beautifiul" play occur at the national level just as much. These include a disruptive, physical style of play with a high press (i.e. Spain against the WNT in the 2019 World Cup, committing 18 fouls to our 4), or the physical bunker mentality with direct counterattacking (i.e Sweden in the 2016 Olympics, also committing 15 fouls to our 4).
> 
> I watched the NWSL last year, more than I would care to admit, and enjoyed it.  I saw a lot of direct play, a bunch of mismatches, some very physical soccer.   It reminded me a lot of the over 100 NCAA women's games I have watched. Actually, most Stanford and UCLA games exhibit more skill in passing and possession than NWSL games.
> 
> Crap all you want to on the college game, but spare me any claim that there is some mythical land of soccer where women are paid well, they play only possession, coaches don't favor speed and athleticism, don't encourage their superstars to be selfish, but instead all the coaches prioritize teamwork and soccer IQ when building their rosters.


----------



## Giesbock

I've lost track of the point of this thread.  Too frenetic, knee-jerk, poorly thought out and irrational statements of position, backtracking, shorthand writing, wishful dreaming about cultural overhaul of the soccer landscape, running down every rabbit hole with no clear direction.

I swear I’m doing my best to keep up...I’m just a simpleton with an athletic, skilled player on the upswing, no offers of free rides, no broken promises of YNT greatness at 12 years old, no certainty of goat-ness. Just working out hard at home, growing, doing what her coaches ask...

These are definitely challenging times and my heart goes out to girls that were gearing for their last showcase tournaments...

Bottom line, I guess as someone said earlier, hope you and yours get a shot at your dreams.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Giesbock said:


> I've lost track of the point of this thread.  Too frenetic, knee-jerk, poorly thought out and irrational statements of position, backtracking, shorthand writing, wishful dreaming about cultural overhaul of the soccer landscape, running down every rabbit hole with no clear direction.
> 
> I swear I’m doing my best to keep up...I’m just a simpleton with an athletic, skilled player on the upswing, no offers of free rides, no broken promises of YNT greatness at 12 years old, no certainty of goat-ness. Just working out hard at home, growing, doing what her coaches ask...
> 
> These are definitely challenging times and my heart goes out to girls that were gearing for their last showcase tournaments...
> 
> Bottom line, I guess as someone said earlier, hope you and yours get a shot at your dreams.


Totally agree. And I hit the ignore button.


----------



## Soccerfan2

LASTMAN14 said:


> Totally agree. And I hit the ignore button.


Me too. I only see this thread now when one of you guys who I actually want to hear from posts something. Much more peaceful!


----------



## Kicker4Life

Sorry for poking the bear.......


----------



## LadiesMan217

LASTMAN14 said:


> Totally agree. And I hit the ignore button.


I finally hit ignore. I have never hit that button on a forum before.


----------



## Hodari

@everyone juggling is fundamental if you cant do it your not a GOAT, because goats are good at everything including many different things that is what makes them great.


----------



## MacDre

Hodari said:


> @everyone juggling is fundamental if you cant do it your not a GOAT, because goats are good at everything including many different things that is what makes them great.


I agree.  But, it should also be made clear that just because you can juggle doesn’t mean you’re a GOAT.


----------



## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> I agree.  But, it should also be made clear that just because you can juggle doesn’t mean you’re a GOAT.


So my dd played with and scrimmaged the great pro OM for three years.  She is Socal's GOAT for our age and younger imho.  A roll model on how to go pro in today's youth soccer for girls.  All I have to compare my dd to a pro is OM and my eyes watched for three years.  @Hodari @MacDre and @Kicker4Life.  I would love to hear what makes a true GOAT in girls soccer?  How many Goats for 04 in socal Kicker?


----------



## Giesbock

Thinking about why ECNL / DA has become a toxic competition.  Was it toxic from the day DA came on the scene?

Did USSF approach Mr. Lavers about integrating With his league but he shunned them?

Did the “toxicity” start after some of his clubs left to join DA?

Easy to understand that Mr. Lavers wouldn’t have been thrilled to have a formidable new competitor move in on his turf, but would he have been afraid of that new challenger? Doubt that...

Were there agreements made and then broken (that could certainly cause a rivalry to become toxic).

Or, did it only become “toxic” after teams, parents and players started moves back and forth between the two leagues, and discovered that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Then I can see someone starting to feel like they’d been played or sold a bill of goods.  That leads to bitterness and jealousy...and toxicity.

 Curious if leadership at both organizations can’t stand each other or if the whole toxic relationship thing flows from parents somehow done wrong??


----------



## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> So my dd played with and scrimmaged the great pro OM for three years.  She is Socal's GOAT for our age and younger imho.  A roll model on how to go pro in today's youth soccer for girls.  All I have to compare my dd to a pro is OM and my eyes watched for three years.  @Hodari @MacDre and @Kicker4Life.  I would love to hear what makes a true GOAT in girls soccer?  How many Goats for 04 in socal Kicker?


I honestly don’t know.  I’m confused.  If you were to see my introverted kid with her coke bottle glasses you would think NERD and not athlete.  But, coaches seem to like her.  
I honestly think being a NERD may have something to do with it.  I think Mewis and Saurbrunn are NERD’s too.
Hey my patna 40 water want to opine on the GOAT issue:


----------



## MacDre

Giesbock said:


> Thinking about why ECNL / DA has become a toxic competition.  Was it toxic from the day DA came on the scene?
> 
> Did USSF approach Mr. Lavers about integrating With his league but he shunned them?
> 
> Did the “toxicity” start after some of his clubs left to join DA?
> 
> Easy to understand that Mr. Lavers wouldn’t have been thrilled to have a formidable new competitor move in on his turf, but would he have been afraid of that new challenger? Doubt that...
> 
> Were there agreements made and then broken (that could certainly cause a rivalry to become toxic).
> 
> Or, did it only become “toxic” after teams, parents and players started moves back and forth between the two leagues, and discovered that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Then I can see someone starting to feel like they’d been played or sold a bill of goods.  That leads to bitterness and jealousy...and toxicity.
> 
> Curious if leadership at both organizations can’t stand each other or if the whole toxic relationship thing flows from parents somehow done wrong??


Better question is how does all of the conflict benefit your kids development?  What are you doing to ensure your kid continues to progress in her development while in the midst of the toxic youth soccer environment?


----------



## Ellejustus

Time to separate the sheep parents from the goat parents and the sheep parents don;t like that at all.  Who do you want to be in life in this new America?  Look at all the sheep in the video......


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Giesbock said:


> Thinking about why ECNL / DA has become a toxic competition.  Was it toxic from the day DA came on the scene?
> 
> Did USSF approach Mr. Lavers about integrating With his league but he shunned them?
> 
> Did the “toxicity” start after some of his clubs left to join DA?
> 
> Easy to understand that Mr. Lavers wouldn’t have been thrilled to have a formidable new competitor move in on his turf, but would he have been afraid of that new challenger? Doubt that...
> 
> Were there agreements made and then broken (that could certainly cause a rivalry to become toxic).
> 
> Or, did it only become “toxic” after teams, parents and players started moves back and forth between the two leagues, and discovered that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Then I can see someone starting to feel like they’d been played or sold a bill of goods.  That leads to bitterness and jealousy...and toxicity.
> 
> Curious if leadership at both organizations can’t stand each other or if the whole toxic relationship thing flows from parents somehow done wrong??


"We know you're ECNL... you're the best... elite players on the elite clubs... worked for years to get there... but we'll be better.  Think National Team."

What could go wrong?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> I honestly don’t know.  I’m confused.  If you were to see my introverted kid with her coke bottle glasses you would think NERD and not athlete.  But, coaches seem to like her.
> I honestly think being a NERD may have something to do with it.  I think Mewis and Saurbrunn are NERD’s too.
> Hey my patna 40 water want to opine on the GOAT issue:


Happy for your kid... but please don't post anymore RAP videos.  Toilet paper is at a premium these days.


----------



## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> Time to separate the sheep parents from the goat parents and the sheep parents don;t like that at all.  Who do you want to be in life in this new America?  Look at all the sheep in the video......


Maybe someone can covince Dominic to add a “Sheepeople” emoji.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> Happy for your kid... but please don't post anymore RAP videos.  Toilet paper is at a premium these days.


I like bluegrass too.


----------



## wc_baller

Giesbock said:


> Thinking about why ECNL / DA has become a toxic competition.  Was it toxic from the day DA came on the scene?
> 
> Did USSF approach Mr. Lavers about integrating With his league but he shunned them?
> 
> Did the “toxicity” start after some of his clubs left to join DA?
> 
> Easy to understand that Mr. Lavers wouldn’t have been thrilled to have a formidable new competitor move in on his turf, but would he have been afraid of that new challenger? Doubt that...
> 
> Were there agreements made and then broken (that could certainly cause a rivalry to become toxic).
> 
> Or, did it only become “toxic” after teams, parents and players started moves back and forth between the two leagues, and discovered that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Then I can see someone starting to feel like they’d been played or sold a bill of goods.  That leads to bitterness and jealousy...and toxicity.
> 
> Curious if leadership at both organizations can’t stand each other or if the whole toxic relationship thing flows from parents somehow done wrong??











						U.S. Soccer-ECNL summit fruitless, with federation set to go it alone on girls Development Academy - SoccerWire
					






					www.soccerwire.com
				




“We went into the meeting with the hope that we could put together a collaborative concept of how to work together – the clubs and the federation – on things that would be additive and make what’s out there better,” Lavers told SoccerWire.com in a phone conversation on Tuesday. “*Their position was that they previously discussed collaborating with us, and had determined that they could improve the game and raise standards in the game faster and better without us.*"

It's only one side of the story, but if true, US Soccer's arrogance has come back to bite them in the ass.


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> Thinking about why ECNL / DA has become a toxic competition.  Was it toxic from the day DA came on the scene?
> 
> Did USSF approach Mr. Lavers about integrating With his league but he shunned them?
> 
> Did the “toxicity” start after some of his clubs left to join DA?
> 
> Easy to understand that Mr. Lavers wouldn’t have been thrilled to have a formidable new competitor move in on his turf, but would he have been afraid of that new challenger? Doubt that...
> 
> Were there agreements made and then broken (that could certainly cause a rivalry to become toxic).
> 
> Or, did it only become “toxic” after teams, parents and players started moves back and forth between the two leagues, and discovered that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Then I can see someone starting to feel like they’d been played or sold a bill of goods.  That leads to bitterness and jealousy...and toxicity.
> 
> Curious if leadership at both organizations can’t stand each other or if the whole toxic relationship thing flows from parents somehow done wrong??


@Giesbock dude, you play dumb but you know way more then you let on.  I like you   No, Mr Lavers never approached Legends.  JH approached Lavers to join and was pissed because the 9 Monopoly players in the SW voted no every time and wouldn't allow the "shoe" or the "boot" to play on their board game in SoCal.  Too bad, tough luck.  Welcome to America.  They applied, but were denied.  Legally btw.  Not a monopoly.  JH is a marketing genius and I'm sure wanted to be King.  Beach, they want to be King too.  They were denied.  It's a board decision, noy any of ours.  It's a free country and Lavers and the board have the right legally to pick whoever they want or deny a club.  So the one's who were looking from the outside got pissed and started a new league and this time they sold customers (not all) YNT and Pros to the top goats.  That's what went down in a nutshell.  Oh ya, plus the 9 monopoly players recruited legally and out in the open the non ecnl clubs top goats and that really pissed them off.  So much so, they started their own league.  JH recruiting haul was insane when he got the TC and the GDA.  Just look at what he had before and what he lost and then look at what he received when the GDA got started.  It's all there to see.  Again, good for them.  It's America, what else is new!!! JH was straight up with me and no bait & switch with me at all.


----------



## Ellejustus

wc_baller said:


> U.S. Soccer-ECNL summit fruitless, with federation set to go it alone on girls Development Academy - SoccerWire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soccerwire.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We went into the meeting with the hope that we could put together a collaborative concept of how to work together – the clubs and the federation – on things that would be additive and make what’s out there better,” Lavers told SoccerWire.com in a phone conversation on Tuesday. “*Their position was that they previously discussed collaborating with us, and had determined that they could improve the game and raise standards in the game faster and better without us.*"
> 
> It's only one side of the story, but if true, US Soccer's arrogance has come back to bite them in the ass.


There you go.  Faster is not always better


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Happy for your kid... but please don't post anymore RAP videos.  Toilet paper is at a premium these days.


Outlaw, my dd and all her white friends love rap just so you know.  One of the rap artist was killed and she cried.  I was shocked.  Like a good father, I asked her a few questions about why so emotional?  She told me all about this guy and his life.  We then started listing to his music on the way to school and she share what it all meant,  I loved it because their was a message, even a message to an old white dude like me who doesn;t listed to rap that much.  My dd loves rap and listens to it before every game, no joke.  When she wakes up I will ask her what his name is.  Young guy who predicted his death.  That is a Legend in my book


----------



## Copa9

MacDre said:


> Better question is how does all of the conflict benefit your kids development?  What are you doing to ensure your kid continues to! progress in her development while in the midst of the toxic youth soccer environment?


So tired of all these "parents"  talking about the "toxic" soccer environment! Be careful, kids learn from their parents and mimic them!  Our kids love the soccer going on.  If your player doesn't like where they are at, make a change and move on.  Sports have never been perfect or fair, any sport actually.  Focus on your player, emphasize academics, honesty, character, soccer skills and a strong work ethic. Maybe the problem is this generation thinking that their agenda is more important than anyone else's, or maybe they are trying to fulfill their own failed or unfulfilled dreams.  Those who are constantly complaining about one league or another are the very ones contributing to the so called "toxic" environment.


----------



## Ellejustus

I feel like I'm dealing with little weasels who pop their little heads with a dumb comment they can;t back up and then they go in their hole.  I'm a black papa bear with a mama bear, boo boo bear and my baby bear dd.  Let's play ball you weasels and lets debate the law, the future of a better top top league, college future, the greatness of ECNL and the 2020-2021 youth season.  I'm bringing it you guys,  I';m not holding back so bring your best or don;t comment at all and then go hide away.  When you do that, you remind me of this little scared dude......


----------



## Hodari

@Ellejustus If you look at wiki at all the girls on the USWNT, they all were Varsity at other sports as well. If you think your daughter is a Goat and she is only good at one thing, well maybe she's just a great player not a Goat. Labron james was the best football player in Cleveland.  As unicorn you need to be good at everything.  Ronaldinho, Neymar, Pele, Zico, Ronaldo, _Messi_ were elite Futsal players as their second sport. Goats in both.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Hodari said:


> @Ellejustus If you look at wiki at all the girls on the USWNT, they all were Varsity at other sports as well. If you think your daughter is a Goat and she is only good at one thing, well maybe she's just a great player not a Goat. Labron james was the best football player in Cleveland.  As unicorn you need to be good at everything.  Ronaldinho, Neymar, Pele, Zico, Ronaldo, _Messi_ were elite Futsal players as their second sport. Goats in both.


Futsal is a variant. Not an entirely different sport. Falcao is a true great at futsal.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Outlaw, my dd and all her white friends love rap just so you know.  One of the rap artist was killed and she cried.  I was shocked.  Like a good father, I asked her a few questions about why so emotional?  She told me all about this guy and his life.  We then started listing to his music on the way to school and she share what it all meant,  I loved it because their was a message, even a message to an old white dude like me who doesn;t listed to rap that much.  My dd loves rap and listens to it before every game, no joke.  When she wakes up I will ask her what his name is.  Young guy who predicted his death.  That is a Legend in my book


I appreciate your opinion, but if it's the rapper I think it is, he was a gang member.  Most are.  RAP, as a whole, glorifies violence and misogyny.  Aside from what little talent it takes to babble rhymes into a microphone, I can't support a "music" that glorifies guns, violence, drugs and classifying women as strippers and whores.  It would be amusing if so many didn't use it as a religion.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Hodari said:


> @Ellejustus If you look at wiki at all the girls on the USWNT, they all were Varsity at other sports as well. If you think your daughter is a Goat and she is only good at one thing, well maybe she's just a great player not a Goat. Labron james was the best football player in Cleveland.  As unicorn you need to be good at everything.  Ronaldinho, Neymar, Pele, Zico, Ronaldo, _Messi_ were elite Futsal players as their second sport. Goats in both.


I do agree with this 100%... but the soccer Gods have taken this away.  Times have changed and YOU need to receive an invoice 12 months a year.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Copa9 said:


> So tired of all these "parents"  talking about the "toxic" soccer environment! Be careful, kids learn from their parents and mimic them!  Our kids love the soccer going on.  If your player doesn't like where they are at, make a change and move on.  Sports have never been perfect or fair, any sport actually.  Focus on your player, emphasize academics, honesty, character, soccer skills and a strong work ethic. Maybe the problem is this generation thinking that their agenda is more important than anyone else's, or maybe they are trying to fulfill their own failed or unfulfilled dreams.  Those who are constantly complaining about one league or another are the very ones contributing to the so called "toxic" environment.


Calling soccer toxic is so over dramatic.  I do wish we could play more local competition, as there are many good players my DD doesn’t get to play against often because of the DA/ECNL split. But, our coach set up friendlies with a handful of nearby ECNL teams this past season, and my kids play futsal with top girls from both leagues. It used the be that PDP and ODP provided lots of mixing up, and I thought DA would be the sad end of that. But, NTC, YNT and ID camps all mix up the girls too, so there are still chances. Nothing in life is ideal. We’ve been with the same local club all the way, through good coaches and bad, through the change to DA, etc. None of that mattered much, because most of their development happens in the backyard and at the park. 
I hear all these crazy goals parents have for their kids on here. Make money, go pro, college, etc. Those are all byproducts if they happen! I just want my girls to learn to give something their all, hopefully love it enough to keep doing it, learn all that comes with being part of a team and contribute to the betterment of the game. Any additional goals they have are their own and I’m just a resource to them.


----------



## Ellejustus

Hodari said:


> @Ellejustus If you look at wiki at all the girls on the USWNT, they all were Varsity at other sports as well. If you think your daughter is a Goat and she is only good at one thing, well maybe she's just a great player not a Goat. Labron james was the best football player in Cleveland.  As unicorn you need to be good at everything.  Ronaldinho, Neymar, Pele, Zico, Ronaldo, _Messi_ were elite Futsal players as their second sport. Goats in both.


I don;t think my dd is a true soccer GOAT at all. I think she falls into almost a goat and can push the true goat to greatness.  Someone has to push them.  That's my honest take. She can surf, play volleyball, run varsity track in the 100 and lead first 25 meters but lose the race to the true goat in track. My dd speed and quickness, IQ, insane competitive drive, willingness to share the rock and lead others to a championship makes her a great player, but not goat. When she learns how to juggle better and be CIF volleyball champ then we can talk true GOATHOOD.  I think she's good enough to run with them and hang and not like when I played pick up ball with Scott Brooks at UCI.  I only played defense and never saw the ball.  Scottie always had it and I didn;t care because I wanted to win. In every big game my dd has played, she has been a goal in the game. She's faster, quicker, smarter on the field, shares the ball and wins championship a hell of lot more than the pro I know. That pro is better with skills with cones and juggling. I take my chance with learning those things later if the opportunity presents itself.  Right now, I don;t see that happening because the girls dont really get paid to juggle.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> I appreciate your opinion, but if it's the rapper I think it is, he was a gang member.  Most are.  RAP, as a whole, glorifies violence and misogyny.  Aside from what little talent it takes to babble rhymes into a microphone, I can't support a "music" that glorifies guns, violence, drugs and classifying women as strippers and whores.  It would be amusing if so many didn't use it as a religion.


I forgot to ask you.  Are you white?  How old?  Where you grow up bro?  That will help me understand where your coming from. Thanks


----------



## Kicker4Life

MacDre said:


> Better question is how does all of the conflict benefit your kids development?  What are you doing to ensure your kid continues to progress in her development while in the midst of the toxic youth soccer environment?


Making sure she is with the right group of Coaches (on and off the field).


----------



## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> Outlaw, my dd and all her white friends love rap just so you know.  One of the rap artist was killed and she cried.  I was shocked.  Like a good father, I asked her a few questions about why so emotional?  She told me all about this guy and his life.  We then started listing to his music on the way to school and she share what it all meant,  I loved it because their was a message, even a message to an old white dude like me who doesn;t listed to rap that much.  My dd loves rap and listens to it before every game, no joke.  When she wakes up I will ask her what his name is.  Young guy who predicted his death.  That is a Legend in my book


RIP Nipsey.  My favorite song by dude.


----------



## Ellejustus

She likes this rapper.  Her friend from 8th grade had a sister who killed herself in a tree that they played in.  My dd wrote an English paper about it this year.  Very deep girl she is and cares about all the girls


----------



## MacDre

Hodari said:


> @Ellejustus If you look at wiki at all the girls on the USWNT, they all were Varsity at other sports as well. If you think your daughter is a Goat and she is only good at one thing, well maybe she's just a great player not a Goat. Labron james was the best football player in Cleveland.  As unicorn you need to be good at everything.  Ronaldinho, Neymar, Pele, Zico, Ronaldo, _Messi_ were elite Futsal players as their second sport. Goats in both.


Very good point.  If your kid ain’t an “All American” or something similar forget about playing at a higher level.  In fact, I will even say that excelling at more than 1 sport should be a prerequisite to play in leagues like GDA or ECNL.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I forgot to ask you.  Are you white?  How old?  Where you grow up bro?  That will help me understand where your coming from. Thanks


I grew up in Central CA and am on the 2nd half of life.  Enough life and cultural experience to call it what it is instead of pretending to be PC.  Played soccer from the age of 9.  Never made it but played with guys that did.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> She likes this rapper.  Her friend from 8th grade had a sister who killed herself in a tree that they played in.  My dd wrote an English paper about it this year.  Very deep girl she is and cares about all the girls


Not the one I was thinking off but also a thug.  It's unfortunate he was murdered but he wasn't a good human, either.  Talks about girls like whores... which, as a father, I refuse to endorse.  I don't care if it's cultural or "just music".  I'm a rock fan and they aren't much better... but rockers aren't waving guns and drugs around in videos.  Promoting gang life and violent culture.


----------



## MacDre

Kicker4Life said:


> Making sure she is with the right group of Coaches (on and off the field).


Good point.  But, how does one know what’s right?  Is what’s right for your kid right for mine?  What was right for your kid last year, is it still right now? 

There’s an old African Proverb that states “it takes a village to raise a child” and I grew up in a era where coaches volunteered.  Some were preachers, PAL, former athletes, alcoholics, an ex-cons but the one thing they had in common was their love of kids and ties to the community.  So for me the right coach is one that has love for my kid and a vested interest in their future because they see my kid as a future leaders of the community.

How can it be right if your kid is just a meal ticket to a coach?


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Not the one I was thinking off but also a thug.  It's unfortunate he was murdered but he wasn't a good human, either.  Talks about girls like whores... which, as a father, I refuse to endorse.  I don't care if it's cultural or "just music".  I'm a rock fan and they aren't much better... but rockers aren't waving guns and drugs around in videos.  Promoting gang life and violent culture.


And you are a good human?  No one is good, so please, stop the nonsense.  Were all broken pieces from the pain caused by others.  Once we receive the pain, we give the pain back like you're doing.  Fresno bro?  Stockton?  I know a few plumber dudes from Stockton and those are tough dudes when their all together as a group.  When their all alone, their little boys like snoopy the Snoopdog.  Rockers, they just had sex with 1000s of girls and can;t remember anything today and with whom. Great roll models the rockers are for my dd.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> And you are a good human?  No one is good, so please, stop the nonsense.  Were all broken pieces from the pain caused by others.  Once we receive the pain, we give the pain back like you're doing.  Fresno bro?  Stockton?  I know a few plumber dudes from Stockton and those are tough dudes when their all together as a group.  When their all alone, their little boys like snoopy the Snoopdog.  Rockers, they just had sex with 1000s of girls and can;t remember anything today and with whom. Great roll models the rockers are for my dd.


Yes, I am a good human.  What pain am I giving back?  Calling out the truth when I see it?  That's not pain... that's not running from the truth and perpetuating the problem.  I just distinguished the difference between rockers and rappers and you ignored it.  Having consensual sex with a 20-year old groupie is different than prostituting a 16-year old because they have no support system and live in fear.  Yeah... I get the whole pack mentality and how it works.  How is that relevant to anything?  It only takes 1 finger to pull a trigger.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> Good point.  But, how does one know what’s right?  Is what’s right for your kid right for mine?  What was right for your kid last year, is it still right now?
> 
> There’s an old African Proverb that states “it takes a village to raise a child” and I grew up in a era where coaches volunteered.  Some were preachers, PAL, former athletes, alcoholics, an ex-cons but the one thing they had in common was their love of kids and ties to the community.  So for me the right coach is one that has love for my kid and a vested interest in their future because they see my kid as a future leaders of the community.
> 
> How can it be right if your kid is just a meal ticket to a coach?


What you describe is a time when we all paid $20-$50 a season to play.  When I was a kid, adults didn't know anything about soccer... with very few exceptions.  Soccer was some ridiculously looking sport that got your kid good exercise and held you over until baseball season.  Now that soccer has become an enterprise with DOC's making 6-figures, the highest level of comp will never go back to good will.  We have some fantastic coaches that do it for the good will, because they damned sure aren't getting rich doing it, but parents have influence and those are all life lessons for our daughters to navigate.  Shitty coaches... shitty parents... shitty teammates... shitty referees... pretty much models much of life as an adult, doesn't it?


----------



## Ellejustus

My dd wrote this for her English class this year. 
Acacia Edwards
Mr Hendricks
English (10)

It was a day like any other, not too warm, not too cold. That's what I loved about May; the weather was always so uplifting. The blazing sun warmed my skin like a cozy blanket, then the Spring breeze would flow in, cooling me down to create the perfect temperature. But today was not like any other day. Today would be a day I would try to forget and try to push out of my head.  I was 12 years old, so young, so fresh, so very impressionable. I went to school like any other day, went to class and sat down in my seat. I looked around all over my math class for my best friend, xxxxxx. She wasn't in her usual seat.  Naturally, I figured her seat had been changed. I scanned the classroom...not by the white board, not in the front, not in the back, not in the middle. Where was she?  I hadn't spoken to her since last night. I just knew something was off by her voice but she told me everything was fine. She told me, she really told me she was fine and I believed her. I felt an instant feeling of fear in my stomach, the kind of feeling you feel when your parents say, "Anything you need to tell me?" the sudden feeling of being sick to your stomach even if you did nothing wrong. I knew something was wrong, I just knew it. But I decided I was just being paranoid, shook the feeling off and continued on through the rest of the school day. 
When I arrived at home, my parents were waiting for me in the living room with a disturbed look on their faces as if they had just seen a ghost. The feeling came back. I scanned their faces for any clues of what was about to be said, but nothing could prepare me for what was coming next. It was as if their mouths were moving but I couldn't hear a word, an unintentional mute you could say. Either that or my mind was blocking it out and all that came out of my mouth was, “What?” As my dad put his arm on my shoulder, an instant shock of chills ran through my body and he said with a shaky voice, “They found her hanging in the backyard.'' At this moment, I did not know what was what. I was in a state of shock. I could not breathe. I sat down. Something broke inside of me and a dam was let loose, flowing down my face. Xxxxx older sister, xxxx had committed suicide and xxxxx found her dangling from our favorite climbing tree when we were younger. Her sister was like my sister.  I loved and looked up to her more than anyone else. I decided I needed to call Xxxxx right away.  On the way to my room, everything felt so different - the world felt bleek and helpless. I looked in the mirror and I spoke out, not to anyone specific, maybe I was speaking to God, if He is real.  I just needed to speak out loud even if no one heard me. I still remember to this day looking into my swollen eyes and puffy cheeks in the mirror, “Why Xxxx, why?” I then just sat there as the hours slowly crept by, crying as if I would never stop.  My mind was spinning as if my brain was on a roller coaster that was out of control.  My adolescent brain could not comprehend why anyone that was so happy and so bubbly could take their own life and honestly I still don’t understand it. The next couple of weeks were hard.  Her death really impacted my life, from eating to my soccer games. I would attend practice but I should have just stayed home. I was just constantly going through the motions, never fully mentally there. I was always sad and the whole world just seemed different, like it was a fragile thing that could easily get broken.
Xxxx was a popular girl at school with the students and the teachers. Her death had a huge impact on each and every individual who attended the school. They had grief counselors come to the school for weeks to help students talk about it, as if that could help during the melancholy time. To this day, it is still a mystery as to why this beautiful, seemingly happy girl chose to take her own life. She did not leave a note. There were no clues, except for a cryptic heading on an Instagram post about not being a “good enough” artist to be alive, but there was not one person who did not admire her work. It took me a long time to get over it and it took an even longer time for me to stop hating her for leaving me and her family broken. Xxxxx and her family ended up moving. We stayed in touch for a while but to be honest, it’s been a long time since either of us have reached out. Maybe, it just hurts too much. I still like May but nowadays, when May comes around, it's not as happy or as carefree but then again, neither am I. May isn’t that perfect temperature I used to love so much with the promise of summer just a few months away. Now, it's a time when I am always reminded of Xxxx death. I now make it a priority to make sure if any of my friends or anyone I know for that matter is okay. I feel sad when someone dies but my eyes do not produce tears. It’s almost as if my tears are in hibernation or have simply run dry.
Xxxx death taught me how precious life is and that anyone can die at any moment. It affected me in good and bad ways. It was bad because I had to grow up fast. Death is too serious for a twelve year old. It is an adult topic. It was good because it taught me that life is precious and to check on your friends. Smiles don’t mean anything. What’s really going on behind it? It takes one second to ask someone if they are ok, to let them know they are not alone, and that you are there for them and will listen.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> Not the one I was thinking off but also a thug.  It's unfortunate he was murdered but he wasn't a good human, either.  Talks about girls like whores... which, as a father, I refuse to endorse.  I don't care if it's cultural or "just music".  I'm a rock fan and they aren't much better... but rockers aren't waving guns and drugs around in videos.  Promoting gang life and violent culture.


They are not promoting gang life, they are expressing their reality as descendants of former slaves. Gangs were around prior to Rap.  Regan and Hoover put the drugs in the community-COINTELPRO
I think sometimes white folks don’t realize how recent slavery was.  So let me give you some perspective...My daughter born in 2007 is the first person in my family that hasn’t been born into servitude and having to work in the fields or clean people’s houses.  To take it a step further, I looked at the slave roles for my grandparents when slavery was abolished and 85% of the slaves were 12-14 years old.  Sick shit.  And relatively recent.
It must be nice to have to have so much privilege that you only have to concern yourself with what’s going on in your bubble.  It must be nice to tell your kid to do their best instead of having to tell them that their best isn’t good enough because they have to be better.

I envy your privilege.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> What you describe is a time when we all paid $20-$50 a season to play.  When I was a kid, adults didn't know anything about soccer... with very few exceptions.  Soccer was some ridiculously looking sport that got your kid good exercise and held you over until baseball season.  Now that soccer has become an enterprise with DOC's making 6-figures, the highest level of comp will never go back to good will.  We have some fantastic coaches that do it for the good will, because they damned sure aren't getting rich doing it, but parents have influence and those are all life lessons for our daughters to navigate.  Shitty coaches... shitty parents... shitty teammates... shitty referees... pretty much models much of life as an adult, doesn't it?


How many black kids did you run with bro in the soccer games when you were 16?  My dd coach in HS shared his American soccer stories with me and let's just say the white boys weren;t so nice and actually some called him "sand N" all the time.  That was back in the day so things might be a little better in todays game.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> How many black kids did you run with bro in the soccer games when you were 16?  My dd coach in HS shared his American soccer stories with me and let's just say the white boys weren;t so nice and actually some called him "sand N" all the time.  That was back in the day so things might be a little better in todays game.


Truthfully, I had 4 black kids in my school.  A brother/sister combo.  Brother was a very good athlete and I'm not aware of anybody treating him badly.  Sister was pretty and likable.  Same there.  The other two guys were also very likable but, as I look back on it now, I wonder if they were bojangles'ing it to be accepted or if they were really just that funny and cheerful all the time.  I hope it was the latter, but I never saw any of them treated poorly... knowing that means very little.  Actually, at 16, most of the guys I played with were Mexican and they fucked with this white boy more than anything.  It was always in good fun, though.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> They are not promoting gang life, they are expressing their reality as descendants of former slaves. Gangs were around prior to Rap.  Regan and Hoover put the drugs in the community-COINTELPRO
> I think sometimes white folks don’t realize how recent slavery was.  So let me give you some perspective...My daughter born in 2007 is the first person in my family that hasn’t been born into servitude and having to work in the fields or clean people’s houses.  To take it a step further, I looked at the slave roles for my grandparents when slavery was abolished and 85% of the slaves were 12-14 years old.  Sick shit.  And relatively recent.
> It must be nice to have to have so much privilege that you only have to concern yourself with what’s going on in your bubble.  It must be nice to tell your kid to do their best instead of having to tell them that their best isn’t good enough because they have to be better.
> 
> I envy your privilege.


Sorry... that's bullshit.  They know nothing about slavery because they weren't slaves, their parents weren't slaves and their grandparents weren't slaves.  That's an excuse.  A black man and woman can be as successful as anyone today if they value education and hard work.  Not in every environment, but nobody has that.  Stop with the "Hoover put the drugs in" bullshit, too.  At some point you have to look in the mirror and accept responsibility for your actions.  You don't get to blame Hoover for rap music glorifying violence, guns, drugs, etc.  All that does is perpetuate the stereotype that you can't get out of the hood any other way and THIS is how you make it.  Fucking Nipsey Hussle calling himself a Messiah was a complete joke.  "He gave back to the community by being a role model."  Really?  Rolling into the hood wearing 5 gold chains and a Mercedes, saying "don't do what I did" is supposed to be a good thing?  LMAO!  Who is stupid enough to buy that?  You don't get to promote violence and the thug life and then cry that you're profiled.  Two black on black shootings at that fucking guy's funeral.  Seriously?

What's wrong with cleaning people's houses?  I'm white and got a part time job when I was 15.  That's not servitude.  That's called "if you want a car and spending money, you help pay for it."  What the fuck?  I'm not condoning slavery... but that "I'm a descendant" has run its course.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MacDre said:


> So for me the right coach is one that has love for my kid and a vested interest in their future because they see my kid as a future leaders of the community.


That is it in a nutshell.  

I believe action speaks louder than words.  I avoided those that had sales pitch and made promises I knew they could t keep.  I guess. growing up in the game gave me some insight and perspective in figuring out what I felt was right or wrong.  Unfortunately some times you don’t discover the dirty underbelly until it’s too late so it becomes a lesson learned.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Truthfully, I had 4 black kids in my school.  A brother/sister combo.  Brother was a very good athlete and I'm not aware of anybody treating him badly.  Sister was pretty and likable.  Same there.  The other two guys were also very likable but, as I look back on it now, I wonder if they were bojangles'ing it to be accepted or if they were really just that funny and cheerful all the time.  I hope it was the latter, but I never saw any of them treated poorly... knowing that means very little.  Actually, at 16, most of the guys I played with were Mexican and they fucked with this white boy more than anything.  It was always in good fun, though.


I heard Landon got it real good too by the Mexican players.  I wonder why they were tough on him?  Anyway, you seem like one who has a lot of pain too.  My mom had a lot of pain as did my dad.  My dad was married and lost his first wife and baby at birth because the Doc was drunk and did a big mistake that killed his wife and baby.  Mistakes happen but that experienced kept my father from wanting kids.  He met my mom after her husband died at 36 of a heart attacked. They got married and adopted and fostered 8 kids.  Cool story.  However, my dad got that dreaded Parkinson's disease when I was 7 and I watched die at the VA hospital in Long Beach when I was 19.  Talk about treating our Vets like crap, don't get me started.  Life is full of pain and pain has all colors to it.


----------



## myself

MacDre said:


> They are not promoting gang life, they are expressing their reality as descendants of former slaves. Gangs were around prior to Rap.  Regan and Hoover put the drugs in the community-COINTELPRO
> I think sometimes white folks don’t realize how recent slavery was.  So let me give you some perspective...My daughter born in 2007 is the first person in my family that hasn’t been born into servitude and having to work in the fields or clean people’s houses.  To take it a step further, I looked at the slave roles for my grandparents when slavery was abolished and 85% of the slaves were 12-14 years old.  Sick shit.  And relatively recent.
> It must be nice to have to have so much privilege that you only have to concern yourself with what’s going on in your bubble.  It must be nice to tell your kid to do their best instead of having to tell them that their best isn’t good enough because they have to be better.
> 
> I envy your privilege.


Please don't engage with this guy over this. He's not arguing in good faith.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> That is it in a nutshell.
> 
> I believe action speaks louder than words.  I avoided those that had sales pitch and made promises I knew they could t keep.  I guess. growing up in the game gave me some insight and perspective in figuring out what I felt was right or wrong.  Unfortunately some times you don’t discover the dirty underbelly until it’s too late so it becomes a lesson learned.


Finally we get to the truth from Kicker.  Where did you grow up "in the game" Kicker? One of the Presidents of a big club grew up in the NBA game. That will help me understand where you coming from.  You obviously had way more insight then I did.  Man, me going for all those sales pitches.  I see you laughing at me Kicker.  Just wait bud....lol!!


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> Sorry... that's bullshit.  They know nothing about slavery because they weren't slaves, their parents weren't slaves and their grandparents weren't slaves.  That's an excuse.  A black man and woman can be as successful as anyone today if they value education and hard work.  Not in every environment, but nobody has that.  Stop with the "Hoover put the drugs in" bullshit, too.  At some point you have to look in the mirror and accept responsibility for your actions.  You don't get to blame Hoover for rap music glorifying violence, guns, drugs, etc.  All that does is perpetuate the stereotype that you can't get out of the hood any other way and THIS is how you make it.  Fucking Nipsey Hussle calling himself a Messiah was a complete joke.  "He gave back to the community by being a role model."  Really?  Rolling into the hood wearing 5 gold chains and a Mercedes, saying "don't do what I did" is supposed to be a good thing?  LMAO!  Who is stupid enough to buy that?  You don't get to promote violence and the thug life and then cry that you're profiled.  Two black on black shootings at that fucking guy's funeral.  Seriously?
> 
> What's wrong with cleaning people's houses?  I'm white and got a part time job when I was 15.  That's not servitude.  That's called "if you want a car and spending money, you help pay for it."  What the fuck?  I'm not condoning slavery... but that "I'm a descendant" has run its course.


Your funny...cleaning a house for a car or spending money when you were 15.  My family cleaned houses to put food on the tables as grown ass people and usually walked or rode the bus to work.  I usually missed school in the fall because I had to pull tobacco so my family could eat.  In the spring, I had to cut trees and stack wood so the wood could dry by winter and we wouldn’t freeze. 
Now the tobacco industry is gone and all the textile mills are overseas.  Public schools are underfunded.  So the youth sell drugs.  Sad.

No one wants to sell drugs.  People are trying to feed their kids.  There are only so many jobs at Walmart.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I heard Landon got it real good too by the Mexican players.  I wonder why they were tough on him?  Anyway, you seem like one who has a lot of pain too.  My mom had a lot of pain as did my dad.  My dad was married and lost his first wife and baby at birth because the Doc was drunk and did a big mistake that killed his wife and baby.  Mistakes happen but that experienced kept my father from wanting kids.  He met my mom after her husband died at 36 of a heart attacked. They got married and adopted and fostered 8 kids.  Cool story.  However, my dad got that dreaded Parkinson's disease when I was 7 and I watched die at the VA hospital in Long Beach when I was 19.  Talk about treating our Vets like crap, don't get me started.  Life is full of pain and pain has all colors to it.


No, I don't have a lot of pain.  I'm not sure where you get that idea.  I've worked hard and be relatively fortunate.  Sorry that's not the case for you.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

myself said:


> Please don't engage with this guy over this. He's not arguing in good faith.


Arguing in good faith?   What does that mean?  I don't agree so that's bad faith?  LMAO!


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> No, I don't have a lot of pain.  I'm not sure where you get that idea.  I've worked hard and be relatively fortunate.  Sorry that's not the case for you.


Your a liar Outlaw.  No one on this planet escapes pain or death.  Nice try.  Life is full of pain.  Kicker's life is better than my life because Kicker say's it is.  No pain, no gain bro.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> Your funny...cleaning a house for a car or spending money when you were 15.  My family cleaned houses to put food on the tables as grown ass people and usually walked or rode the bus to work.  I usually missed school in the fall because I had to pull tobacco so my family could eat.  In the spring, I had to cut trees and stack wood so the wood could dry by winter and we wouldn’t freeze.
> Now the tobacco industry is gone and all the textile mills are overseas.  Public schools are underfunded.  So the youth sell drugs.  Sad.
> 
> No one wants to sell drugs.  People are trying to feed their kids.  There are only so many jobs at Walmart.


No, I didn't say I cleaned houses.  I said there's nothing wrong with cleaning houses.  I rode my bike 5 miles each way to flip hamburger patties for minimum wage like many other kids my age.  I worked all through high school and paid for most of my college... by working after school and on weekends when many other kids were partying.  My parents did the same thing.  I get it... everyone has it differently.  I grew up with kids that never worked until after college.  Life isn't fair.  What you're telling me is that none of the drug dealers want to do it.  So are you saying many aren't doing it because they can make absurd money for half a day's work and not pay taxes on the income?  Public schools ARE underfunded... and I'd rather see our tax dollars go to schools rather than making sure jail and prison inmates get a free ride for things like food, medical, education and "rent" per say.  But then people would whine that it's inhumane to make murderers, rapists and thieves have to earn a living like the rest of us.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Your a liar Outlaw.  No one on this planet escapes pain or death.  Nice try.  Life is full of pain.  Kicker's life is better than my life because Kicker say's it is.  No pain, no gain bro.


It's actually "you're" and not "your" a liar... and no, I'm not a liar.  I told you I don't have a lot of pain.  I never said I escaped pain or death.


----------



## Ellejustus

I dont go to class like you saint Outlaw or go work after school like a good boy should.  No sir, I was out running the streets (beaches) and smoking hippie lettuce among many other things. It was the 70s. One of my rich white friends dad made millions.  I'll share how later.  Anyway, he brings out this white rock and I was hooked for 6 months. The first time I took a line, I played hoops and I was by far the best that night. It was fun until he ask me for money.  The dad ended up going to jail for along time because of some "white" color crime. I think we all made some mistakes and in once since or sense, were all guilty of crimes against ourselves, others and humanity.  Outlaw has very little pain in life and did everything write as a white boy.  Black people just need to do the same and all will be ok for them.  Your so lost dude your full of hate!!!!


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> No, I didn't say I cleaned houses.  I said there's nothing wrong with cleaning houses.  I rode my bike 5 miles each way to flip hamburger patties for minimum wage like many other kids my age.  I worked all through high school and paid for most of my college... by working after school and on weekends when many other kids were partying.  My parents did the same thing.  I get it... everyone has it differently.  I grew up with kids that never worked until after college.  Life isn't fair.  What you're telling me is that none of the drug dealers want to do it.  So are you saying many aren't doing it because they can make absurd money for half a day's work and not pay taxes on the income?  Public schools ARE underfunded... and I'd rather see our tax dollars go to schools rather than making sure jail and prison inmates get a free ride for things like food, medical, education and "rent" per say.  But then people would whine that it's inhumane to make murderers, rapists and thieves have to earn a living like the rest of us.


Yep.  Selling drugs is a high-risk minimum wage job without benefits.  The only people making the money are the kingpins.


----------



## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> Yep.  Selling drugs is a high-risk minimum wage job without benefits.  The only people making the money are the kingpins.


Nothing like grown up rich white millionaire dads in club soccer lying to 11 year old girl and her dad.  I'm supposed to have Kickers insight and no(know) that the grown ups from Rancho Sante Fe will lie to me and her, all so they could win #10 championship and become the #1 club in the GDA.  Thanks guys, I super appreciate you all lying to me.  I know I'm dumb and stupid for falling for all it.  However, I did and that's why I probably will be here until those losers are out of the game.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I dont go to class like you saint Outlaw or go work after school like a good boy should.  No sir, I was out running the streets (beaches) and smoking hippie lettuce among many other things. It was the 70s. One of my rich white friends dad made millions.  I'll share how later.  Anyway, he brings out this white rock and I was hooked for 6 months. The first time I took a line, I played hoops and I was by far the best that night. It was fun until he ask me for money.  The dad ended up going to jail for along time because of some "white" color crime. I think we all made some mistakes and in once since or sense, were all guilty of crimes against ourselves, others and humanity.  Outlaw has very little pain in life and did everything write as a white boy.  Black people just need to do the same and all will be ok for them.  Your so lost dude your full of hate!!!!


LMAO!  So I'm full of hate because I was smart enough to avoid drugs and you weren't?  Man... I can hear the violins from here.

What's with your inability to grasp your and you're?  Is it deliberate?  English not your first language?


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> LMAO!  So I'm full of hate because I was smart enough to avoid drugs and you weren't?  Man... I can hear the violins from here.
> 
> What's with your inability to grasp your and you're?  Is it deliberate?  English not your first language?


Hey, read my story.  I couldn;t speak when I was born.  I was deaf. So yes, English was sort of second language.  I read my mom's body language and she said I was so smart she didn;t realize I was a dumb deaf mute until I was 3.  Can you believe that Outlaw? I was special needs all through k-8th because I stuttered bad after I learned how to talk from my two years of operations when I was 3 and 4.  I was labeled dumb by my teachers and school district and probably from guys like you.  I would kick your ass on the baseball field or the gym for my revenge.  I never went to class in HS because I was told I was stupid because I couldn;t speak in front of people.  I liked surfing way more and thought I could be pro surfer until I realized I wasn;t as good as Tom Curren and few others I grew up with.  I missed out on being a pro so i thought I could get my dd to do it for me. So my writing skills is poor at best too.  I actually quit HS and took the GDE after Sr year hoops season was over.  I hated school and I kind of think it's overrated and over sold to our youth.  You don;t have to go to college to be successful to be a winner.  America is changing and college isnt the only game in town.


----------



## Ellejustus

Here you go Lester Outlaw.  You make me puke dude.  Your an embarrassment to all white people.  I'm sick of your hate.  Take a hike jack and go back to them old days.


----------



## Giesbock

Sorry Ellejustus if that’s your real story. But I take it with a grain of salt since as soccer helper you talked about having 2 D1 coaches lined up for in home interviews with your daughter... but someone astutely asked how that could be so, since discussion with D1 coaches can’t happen till after June 15 after sophomore year of school...

Anyway, you shrugged that story off as ‘sarcastic’. But that isn’t sarcasm. It’s a plain old lie.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Giesbock said:


> Sorry Ellejustus if that’s your real story. But I take it with a grain of salt since as soccer helper you talked about having 2 D1 coaches lined up for in home interviews with your daughter... but someone astutely asked how that could be so, since discussion with D1 coaches can’t happen till after June 15 after sophomore year of school...
> 
> Anyway, you shrugged that story off as ‘sarcastic’. But that isn’t sarcasm. It’s a plain old lie.


So many of them to count.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Hey, read my story.  I couldn;t speak when I was born.  I was deaf. So yes, English was sort of second language.  I read my mom's body language and she said I was so smart she didn;t realize I was a dumb deaf mute until I was 3.  Can you believe that Outlaw? I was special needs all through k-8th because I stuttered bad after I learned how to talk from my two years of operations when I was 3 and 4.  I was labeled dumb by my teachers and school district and probably from guys like you.  I would kick your ass on the baseball field or the gym for my revenge.  I never went to class in HS because I was told I was stupid because I couldn;t speak in front of people.  I liked surfing way more and thought I could be pro surfer until I realized I wasn;t as good as Tom Curren and few others I grew up with.  I missed out on being a pro so i thought I could get my dd to do it for me. So my writing skills is poor at best too.  I actually quit HS and took the GDE after Sr year hoops season was over.  I hated school and I kind of think it's overrated and over sold to our youth.  You don;t have to go to college to be successful to be a winner.  America is changing and college isnt the only game in town.


Great story.  Maybe you should back away from calling people "liar" or "lost" or "full of hate" and "privileged" because of your personal issues.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Here you go Lester Outlaw.  You make me puke dude.  Your an embarrassment to all white people.  I'm sick of your hate.  Take a hike jack and go back to them old days.


So the truth is hate now?  If you disagree, tell me why.  If I'm wrong, tell me how.  Don't just babble incoherent sentences with spelling people can't decipher.  You're the one with 50 profiles and endless time to post.  Try using your words instead of memes and videos.  I'm capable of debating with you and MacDre.  I've disagree'd with him before and I've complimented him before.


----------



## EOTL

[d


wc_baller said:


> U.S. Soccer-ECNL summit fruitless, with federation set to go it alone on girls Development Academy - SoccerWire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soccerwire.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “We went into the meeting with the hope that we could put together a collaborative concept of how to work together – the clubs and the federation – on things that would be additive and make what’s out there better,” Lavers told SoccerWire.com in a phone conversation on Tuesday. “*Their position was that they previously discussed collaborating with us, and had determined that they could improve the game and raise standards in the game faster and better without us.*"
> 
> It's only one side of the story, but if true, US Soccer's arrogance has come back to bite them in the ass.


Right off the bat, USSF essentially told ECNL “Thanks for doing all the heavy lifting, we’re just going to take your business now.”  Of course ECNL hates USSF.

If USSF had done exactly what ECNL had done but slapped the US Soccer label on it, ECNL would be dead by now. Instead, USSF is full of morons who failed to appreciate that all the things it tried to do differently were things ECNL had already found to be financially unsustainable.  ECNL had already tried to discourage HS only to learn that, for every @simisoccrfan who detests HS soccer, it would lose 100 paying customers by banning it. ECNL learned how much travel (and costs) would be acceptable to its customers. ECNL understood there is no one size fits all way of running a national soccer league, and perfected its platform to account for regional differences, including different HS seasons, weather, spring breaks, financial demographics, etc. ECNL knew the main value proposition for its business is to open college doors that would otherwise be closed.

USSF thought the parents of every elite female soccer player in the country must love soccer so much that they’re willing to pay any amount of money, make their kids miss any amount of school and give up everything else in life just so their kid can wear a USSF patch and live a fantasy that someday they might play on the national team. USSF saw a vision of a world in which women make a fortune to skip college and play pro, although that makes no financial sense.

ECNL is run by experienced businesspeople making solid business decisions based on reality. GDA is run by soccer morons who are making decisions based on a fantasy of how they want the world to be, instead of how it actually is.


----------



## Giesbock

Good information @EOTL. Thanks.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> Great story.  Maybe you should back away from calling people "liar" or "lost" or "full of hate" and "privileged" because of your personal issues.


I don’t think calling someone privilege is an insult and part of being an adult and growing is acknowledging your privilege and trying to do better.
I have male privilege and I am a sexist in recovery.  I know all the buzzwords and have a great relationship with my daughter but I am still a sexist because I am a product of my environment.  If I don’t acknowledge my sexism and privilege, how can I improve as a man?
In October when my daughter’s male coach asked me if my kid could join their Academy.  I said no.  I can’t remember the excuse used but I rejected the offer.  I rejected the offer because my girl had always played with boys and I didn’t like how girls played the game.  And, the coach was a female too—ah, hell no.


EOTL said:


> [d
> 
> 
> Right off the bat, USSF essentially told ECNL “Thanks for doing all the heavy lifting, we’re just going to take your business now.”  Of course ECNL hates USSF.
> 
> If USSF had done exactly what ECNL had done but slapped the US Soccer label on it, ECNL would be dead by now. Instead, USSF is full of morons who failed to appreciate that all the things it tried to do differently were things ECNL had already found to be financially unsustainable.  ECNL had already tried to discourage HS only to learn that, for every @simisoccrfan who detests HS soccer, it would lose 100 paying customers by banning it. ECNL learned how much travel (and costs) would be acceptable to its customers. ECNL understood there is no one size fits all way of running a national soccer league, and perfected its platform to account for regional differences, including different HS seasons, weather, spring breaks, financial demographics, etc. ECNL knew the main value proposition for its business is to open college doors that would otherwise be closed.
> 
> USSF thought the parents of every elite female soccer player in the country must love soccer so much that they’re willing to pay any amount of money, make their kids miss any amount of school and give up everything else in life just so their kid can wear a USSF patch and live a fantasy that someday they might play on the national team. USSF saw a vision of a world in which women make a fortune to skip college and play pro, although that makes no financial sense.
> 
> ECNL is run by experienced businesspeople making solid business decisions based on reality. GDA is run by soccer morons who are making decisions based on a fantasy of how they want the world to be, instead of how it actually is.


 I agree with most of what you’re saying.  I think USSF was trying to do the right thing but failed.  Their actions remind me of my days in the Marine Corps when I was constantly told “good initiative bad judgment.”
I think it was good initiative for USSF to attempt to bring us to international standards but I think it was bad judgment the way they rolled GDA out.
As I’ve been saying, the problem isn’t GDA it’s the MLS that’s dropping the ball.  At least USSF tried.
Now we’re in a situation with our ethnocentric thinking where our girls are getting substandard development and most cant fathom demanding MLS support women’s soccer. So sad!
I think pay to play should be for the worst players.  You know, the one’s with two left feet.  The one’s that don’t have a snowball chance in hell of playing at a higher level but still love the sport.  
MLS academies should be training those that aspire to professional or collegiate ranks and the mistake USSF made was trying to do MLS’ job for them.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> [d
> 
> 
> Right off the bat, USSF essentially told ECNL “Thanks for doing all the heavy lifting, we’re just going to take your business now.”  Of course ECNL hates USSF.
> 
> If USSF had done exactly what ECNL had done but slapped the US Soccer label on it, ECNL would be dead by now. Instead, USSF is full of morons who failed to appreciate that all the things it tried to do differently were things ECNL had already found to be financially unsustainable.  ECNL had already tried to discourage HS only to learn that, for every @simisoccrfan who detests HS soccer, it would lose 100 paying customers by banning it. ECNL learned how much travel (and costs) would be acceptable to its customers. ECNL understood there is no one size fits all way of running a national soccer league, and perfected its platform to account for regional differences, including different HS seasons, weather, spring breaks, financial demographics, etc. ECNL knew the main value proposition for its business is to open college doors that would otherwise be closed.
> 
> USSF thought the parents of every elite female soccer player in the country must love soccer so much that they’re willing to pay any amount of money, make their kids miss any amount of school and give up everything else in life just so their kid can wear a USSF patch and live a fantasy that someday they might play on the national team. USSF saw a vision of a world in which women make a fortune to skip college and play pro, although that makes no financial sense.
> 
> ECNL is run by experienced businesspeople making solid business decisions based on reality. GDA is run by soccer morons who are making decisions based on a fantasy of how they want the world to be, instead of how it actually is.


Very good said sir.  Sounds like my my my sttttuuuupppppiiiiddddddd story.  I was yelling at everyone at Surf for two years and then yelled one year at the Blues for how these moron dads were trying their luck with girls soccer.  I will say you way gooder then (than) I gould of ever done.  Outlaw make  fun of me because I didnt work hard in grade and hs school and IIIII have hard time excelling with high marks back when school and college was forced down my brain and if you dont go to college u be failure in life.. In fact, I got bad grades.  Sorry, i cou;lt freaking talk.  So, to hit a home run in life I was on the bench.  I never got a freaking tuen to bat in life because I was stupid.  Does that ring bell EOTL or Outlaw dude who has so much hate and pain he doesn;t even no about it.......gee, like me was born yesterday


----------



## MakeAPlay

EOTL said:


> Yes, it was free for a year because you hitched your wagon to a dumb soccer club that could not sustain it. In the meantime, while your daughter was getting mediocre training and not a lot of college attention, the paying customers over at Blues were gaining on and surpassing your kid, and their coaches were having meaningful conversations on their behalf to Radcliffe and Cromwell.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, Portland Thorns are not fully funding their GDA, which just proves my point.  I’m glad you’re dropping maybe $50 a year for an NWSL season ticket package. Another $350 million and they’ll be right there with MLS.


It's like $250 for the season ticket package but you are 100% correct.


----------



## MakeAPlay

This thread is going to be funny in 4-5 years.  The soccer will sort everything out.  Not a smart move to put all of your eggs in one basket.  Even Catarina Macario is going to graduate with a Stanford degree and she might actually make the full USWNT and make half a million dollars a year playing soccer for few years yet she won't come close to the value of her degree.

Cheers to everyone and carry on.


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> Sorry Ellejustus if that’s your real story. But I take it with a grain of salt since as soccer helper you talked about having 2 D1 coaches lined up for in home interviews with your daughter... but someone astutely asked how that could be so, since discussion with D1 coaches can’t happen till after June 15 after sophomore year of school...
> 
> Anyway, you shrugged that story off as ‘sarcastic’. But that isn’t sarcasm. It’s a plain old lie.


Bro, are you saying you thought I was telling the truth about two top D1 girls college coaches coming to my house to meets up with the family to see what my goat is about June 15th?  I did lie and I ask for forgiveness.  Always ask me and I promise to let you know if i'm telling a story or if its a true story.  My public school story is 100% all true.  I promise.  I had a dream as a 9th grader at Laguna beach hs.  I wanted John Wooden to come to my house. I had a dream and I was damm good player in Laguna Beach against my white friends.  The varsity coach liked my hustle as a freshman and called me up with the Varsity for the LBHS Christmas Classic. We opened up against the Long Beach Poly Jack Rabbits. Their fans all came out to support their team.  We were the home team and hardly anyone came.  I saw my dream fade away of UCLA quickly as I watched Poly warm up.  I got in the game in the 4th quarter.  I think it was 105-34.  It was a spanking.  I also appreciated what I saw and actually worked my ass off to get better so I could compete against the goats.  I held my own but like I said before, I played defense when I played with the goats and passed the rock.  I was nasty on defense and would steal the ball and pass like Stockton.


----------



## EOTL

MakeAPlay said:


> This thread is going to be funny in 4-5 years.  The soccer will sort everything out.  Not a smart move to put all of your eggs in one basket.  Even Catarina Macario is going to graduate with a Stanford degree and she might actually make the full USWNT and make half a million dollars a year playing soccer for few years yet she won't come close to the value of her degree.
> 
> Cheers to everyone and carry on.


This thread only has 12-18 months left. The last post in it will be mine and it will say “I told you so.”


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> Good information @EOTL. Thanks.


I said the same thing for months, just with a different style.


----------



## Giesbock

Yeah. I did think you were telling the truth.


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> This thread is going to be funny in 4-5 years.  The soccer will sort everything out.  Not a smart move to put all of your eggs in one basket.  Even Catarina Macario is going to graduate with a Stanford degree and she might actually make the full USWNT and make half a million dollars a year playing soccer for few years yet she won't come close to the value of her degree.
> 
> Cheers to everyone and carry on.


Hey Maps, remember everyone telling me how stupid I was that we didn;t jump at the college deal in 8th grade?  I told you about UCLA and Duke coming out to check out the 7th and 8th graders and run some of the drills?  Anson from NC signed a 6th grader and things were downhill quickly. My dd was 4 11' and got the full court press to send them emails or else.  I said no.  Was that bad of me as a dad or did I read the tea leaves properly?  We could of got a deal from someone but 80% quit so why do that.  Sad crap they put these girls through back in the day.  Your dd is .1% so please show mercy to us 99%ters.  Welcome back.


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> Yeah. I did think you were telling the truth.


Sorry bro.  They did phone dating only back then.  The truth is, my dd is deciding her own life.  No rush at all.  Take your time


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Very good said sir.  Sounds like my my my sttttuuuupppppiiiiddddddd story.  I was yelling at everyone at Surf for two years and then yelled one year at the Blues for how these moron dads were trying their luck with girls soccer.  I will say you way gooder then (than) I gould of ever done.  Outlaw make  fun of me because I didnt work hard in grade and hs school and IIIII have hard time excelling with high marks back when school and college was forced down my brain and if you dont go to college u be failure in life.. In fact, I got bad grades.  Sorry, i cou;lt freaking talk.  So, to hit a home run in life I was on the bench.  I never got a freaking tuen to bat in life because I was stupid.  Does that ring bell EOTL or Outlaw dude who has so much hate and pain he doesn;t even no about it.......gee, like me was born yesterday


You're a professional victim.  Early on... when you were an aspiring pro... did you hit your head on the board 1 too many times?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Giesbock said:


> Good information @EOTL. Thanks.


I can't read what he/she posted since I ignore him/her but I take exception to the use of Good and EOTL in the same sentence!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MakeAPlay said:


> This thread is going to be funny in 4-5 years.  The soccer will sort everything out.  Not a smart move to put all of your eggs in one basket.  Even Catarina Macario is going to graduate with a Stanford degree and she might actually make the full USWNT and make half a million dollars a year playing soccer for few years yet she won't come close to the value of her degree.
> 
> Cheers to everyone and carry on.


I'd love to know what 22-year old Mallory Pugh would do if a redo presented itself.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> You're a professional victim.  Early on... when you were an aspiring pro... did you hit your head on the board 1 too many times?


You live life in the law of two, that's too bad for you and your dd


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> I'd love to know what 22-year old Mallory Pugh would do if a redo presented itself.


UCLA


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> I don’t think calling someone privilege is an insult and part of being an adult and growing is acknowledging your privilege and trying to do better.
> I have male privilege and I am a sexist in recovery.  I know all the buzzwords and have a great relationship with my daughter but I am still a sexist because I am a product of my environment.  If I don’t acknowledge my sexism and privilege, how can I improve as a man?
> In October when my daughter’s male coach asked me if my kid could join their Academy.  I said no.  I can’t remember the excuse used but I rejected the offer.  I rejected the offer because my girl had always played with boys and I didn’t like how girls played the game.  And, the coach was a female too—ah, hell no.
> 
> I agree with most of what you’re saying.  I think USSF was trying to do the right thing but failed.  Their actions remind me of my days in the Marine Corps when I was constantly told “good initiative bad judgment.”
> I think it was good initiative for USSF to attempt to bring us to international standards but I think it was bad judgment the way they rolled GDA out.
> As I’ve been saying, the problem isn’t GDA it’s the MLS that’s dropping the ball.  At least USSF tried.
> Now we’re in a situation with our ethnocentric thinking where our girls are getting substandard development and most cant fathom demanding MLS support women’s soccer. So sad!
> I think pay to play should be for the worst players.  You know, the one’s with two left feet.  The one’s that don’t have a snowball chance in hell of playing at a higher level but still love the sport.
> MLS academies should be training those that aspire to professional or collegiate ranks and the mistake USSF made was trying to do MLS’ job for them.


The word "privilege" has become an insult.  It suggests someone was given a head start or hand up that others didn't get.  Moreover, it suggests someone didn't work as hard or sacrifice as much to achieve whatever it is they're trying to achieve.  That doesn't mean privilege doesn't exist... but I don't believe privilege is determined by skin color.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> You live life in the law of two, that's too bad for you and your dd


What the fuck does that even mean?  In the law of two?  Don't feel badly for me... my daughter and I have separate lives... unlike you.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> The word "privilege" has become an insult.  It suggests someone was given a head start or hand up that others didn't get.  Moreover, it suggests someone didn't work as hard or sacrifice as much to achieve whatever it is they're trying to achieve.  That doesn't mean privilege doesn't exist... but I don't believe privilege is determined by skin color.


Listen Lester, let me help you out.  Were all told to score a run in the game of baseball, right? For my story about whites and blacks, let's use scoring a run as being a winner in life.  Q for you Lester.  How does someone score a run?


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> What the fuck does that even mean?  In the law of two?  Don't feel badly for me... my daughter and I have separate lives... unlike you.


So you don;t know what the law of two means?  OK, disregard my baseball analogy.  Just drop it Lester, your not ready for the next stage in life.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

I think you should be more worried about how long this stay safe at home lasts.   If it extends into the fall there goes all pro, college, HS and club sports for that season.  Even if things then recover in 2021, College Sports will never be the same with the loss of the Football revenue for a season.  While colleges will likely honor their current scholarship commitments to current college students I could see most college sports losing all of their future scholarships and a lot of their funding for years.   In that scenario if your kid has not signed an official college NLI already, kiss good bye any chance at a scholarship.  Then the stupid argument between DA and ECNL *won't matter *because no one will pay to play in those leagues without the potential hope of college scholarship.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Listen Lester, let me help you out.  Were all told to score a run in the game of baseball, right? For my story about whites and blacks, let's use scoring a run as being a winner in life.  Q for you Lester.  How does someone score a run?


Who is Lester?  Some guy that touched you when you were hanging ten?


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> The word "privilege" has become an insult.  It suggests someone was given a head start or hand up that others didn't get.  Moreover, it suggests someone didn't work as hard or sacrifice as much to achieve whatever it is they're trying to achieve.  That doesn't mean privilege doesn't exist... but I don't believe privilege is determined by skin color.


I think there are different levels of privilege.  I think currently the ultimate form of privilege is white male privilege.  But, I can also admit that as a black male oftentimes I have male privilege over white women.  So, race isn’t the only factor but it’s part of the analysis.
That doesn’t suggest you didn’t work for what you have or that you haven’t endured adversity.  It simply means all things being considered equally you have a few extra cards to play.  You receive the benefit of being considered a man of honor and intelligent.  I get viewed with skepticism and receive no beneficial assumptions when people see me.  And that my friend is privilege.


----------



## Giesbock

Simisoccerfan said:


> I can't read what he/she posted since I ignore him/her but I take exception to the use of Good and EOTL in the same sentence!


Glad to be ignored. Doesn’t matter one lick to me


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> I think there are different levels of privilege.  I think currently the ultimate form of privilege is white male privilege.  But, I can also admit that as a black male oftentimes I have male privilege over white women.  So, race isn’t the only factor but it’s part of the analysis.
> That doesn’t suggest you didn’t work for what you have or that you haven’t endured adversity.  It simply means all things being considered equally you have a few extra cards to play.  You receive the benefit of being considered a man of honor and intelligent.  I get viewed with skepticism and receive no beneficial assumptions when people see me.  And that my friend is privilege.


So let's look at your first 2 sentences and your last 2 sentences.  Why do you think a white male has more privilege and a black man gets viewed with skepticism and no beneficial assumptions?  Why do you think that is?


----------



## LASTMAN14

MacDre said:


> I think there are different levels of privilege.  I think currently the ultimate form of privilege is white male privilege.  But, I can also admit that as a black male oftentimes I have male privilege over white women.  So, race isn’t the only factor but it’s part of the analysis.
> That doesn’t suggest you didn’t work for what you have or that you haven’t endured adversity.  It simply means all things being considered equally you have a few extra cards to play.  You receive the benefit of being considered a man of honor and intelligent.  I get viewed with skepticism and receive no beneficial assumptions when people see me.  And that my friend is privilege.


We all discount the privileges that our society/state/country do offer us. Like an education, running water, indoor plumbing, Starbucks, medical care, etc. But nothing beats the privilege of finding a Pliny The Elder.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

LASTMAN14 said:


> We all discount the privileges that our society/state/country do offer us. Like an education, running water, indoor plumbing, Starbucks, medical care, etc. But nothing beats the privilege of finding a Pliny The Elder.


I just saw on Facebook from sister that some place in Rancho Santa Margarita is tapping one with growlers to go!


----------



## Kicker4Life

LASTMAN14 said:


> We all discount the privileges that our society/state/country do offer us. Like an education, running water, indoor plumbing, Starbucks, medical care, etc. But nothing beats the privilege of finding a Pliny The Elder.


Finished my last bottle of Happy Hops and broke into the case of Blind Pig yesterday.


----------



## MacDre

Simisoccerfan said:


> I think you should be more worried about how long this stay safe at home lasts.   If it extends into the fall there goes all pro, college, HS and club sports for that season.  Even if things then recover in 2021, College Sports will never be the same with the loss of the Football revenue for a season.  While colleges will likely honor their current scholarship commitments to current college students I could see most college sports losing all of their future scholarships and a lot of their funding for years.   In that scenario if your kid has not signed an official college NLI already, kiss good bye any chance at a scholarship.  Then the stupid argument between DA and ECNL *won't matter *because no one will pay to play in those leagues without the potential hope of college scholarship.


Hopefully you’re right.  Then maybe the MLS will hold up their obligation to open up Academies and all the girls that don’t make the team can apply for academic scholarships and apply all the coin their parents save by them developing in a MLS academy to their education.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Simisoccerfan said:


> I just saw on Facebook from sister that some place in Rancho Santa Margarita is tapping one with growlers to go!


Called Selma’s


----------



## LASTMAN14

Simisoccerfan said:


> I just saw on Facebook from sister that some place in Rancho Santa Margarita is tapping one with growlers to go!


Dam! Growlers! Wow!


----------



## Simisoccerfan

MacDre said:


> Hopefully you’re right.  Then maybe the MLS will hold up their obligation to open up Academies and all the girls that don’t make the team can apply for academic scholarships and apply all the coin their parents save by them developing in a MLS academy to their education.


What?  I can’t imagine anyone hoping that scenario comes true.  I fear that scenario.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Kicker4Life said:


> Finished my last bottle of Happy Hops and broke into the case of Blind Pig yesterday.


I’m not sure what to say...Lucky privileged MF!


----------



## Ellejustus

Simisoccerfan said:


> I think you should be more worried about how long this stay safe at home lasts.   If it extends into the fall there goes all pro, college, HS and club sports for that season.  Even if things then recover in 2021, College Sports will never be the same with the loss of the Football revenue for a season.  While colleges will likely honor their current scholarship commitments to current college students I could see most college sports losing all of their future scholarships and a lot of their funding for years.   In that scenario if your kid has not signed an official college NLI already, kiss good bye any chance at a scholarship.  Then the stupid argument between DA and ECNL *won't matter *because no one will pay to play in those leagues without the potential hope of college scholarship.


You don;t like sports, I can tell.  My dd can walk on then because she probably won;t need any money from the college.  We are very unique and wont take up the funds. They can give all the money to the goat(s).  She wants to win College Cup so that's cool for me.  Came out of knowhere too. I'm getting out of this house asap btw.  We went LBHS to train today and all locked up.  I bet you called the cops on us too.  Today, we went to a grass park with no one there and a Sheriff Helicopter told us to get on the sidewalk.  We obeyed


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> So let's look at your first 2 sentences and your last 2 sentences.  Why do you think a white male has more privilege and a black man gets viewed with skepticism and no beneficial assumptions?  Why do you think that is?


Look at the over representation of black men in prison and the under representation of black men in college.  Look at the under representation of white men in prison and the over representation of white male’s in college.
That’s one example but there’s more.
You gotta be kidding, but I’ll humor you.  I’m stuck in the house and bored as hell.


----------



## MacDre

Simisoccerfan said:


> What?  I can’t imagine anyone hoping that scenario comes true.  I fear that scenario.


Why?


----------



## LASTMAN14

Simisoccerfan said:


> I just saw on Facebook from sister that some place in Rancho Santa Margarita is tapping one with growlers to go!


It’s hard enough finding bottles of it. It took time finding someone who poured it.


----------



## Ellejustus

LASTMAN14 said:


> So many of them to count.


Where have you been Lastman?  Finally pops his head out of his whole.  Is your're life better than Kickers life?  If so, you have the best life out of all three of us. Tell me the lies and I'll tell you the truth.  I warned about this league your praised so much.  It's going down..........


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> Look at the over representation of black men in prison and the under representation of black men in college.  Look at the under representation of white men in prison and the over representation of white male’s in college.
> That’s one example but there’s more.
> You gotta be kidding, but I’ll humor you.  I’m stuck in the house and bored as hell.


So you think behavior isn't the biggest attribute there?  I've watched COPS for 30+ years.  If I had a nickel for every black man that said "---- shouldn't be illegal" I'd be retired.  And maybe white males are "over represented" because they value education more?  How come, and I've noted this before here, there is a Rooney Rule in the NFL?  When there's 30 jobs available, and African Americans represent only 13% of the population, why are teams required to interview a black man when 65% of the players are black?  And how come nobody bitches that 75% of NBA players are black?  At some point you need to be honest with yourself.  Maybe there's more black men in prison because black men commit more crimes or aren't as good at getting away with crime.  Maybe there are fewer black men in college because they average 25% lower on their SAT scores than whites.


----------



## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> Why?


I would be so stoked


The Outlaw said:


> So you think behavior isn't the biggest attribute there?  I've watched COPS for 30+ years.  If I had a nickel for every black man that said "---- shouldn't be illegal" I'd be retired.  And maybe white males are "over represented" because they value education more?  How come, and I've noted this before here, there is a Rooney Rule in the NFL?  When there's 30 jobs available, and African Americans represent only 13% of the population, why are teams required to interview a black man when 65% of the players are black?  And how come nobody bitches that 75% of NBA players are black?  At some point you need to be honest with yourself.  Maybe there's more black men in prison because black men commit more crimes or aren't as good at getting away with crime.  Maybe there are fewer black men in college because they average 25% lower on their SAT scores than whites.


Loser!!!!!  Dude, what years you living in?  I know a white cop that is in prison for some really bad stuff.  Lester Lester Lester.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> So you think behavior isn't the biggest attribute there?  I've watched COPS for 30+ years.  If I had a nickel for every black man that said "---- shouldn't be illegal" I'd be retired.  And maybe white males are "over represented" because they value education more?  How come, and I've noted this before here, there is a Rooney Rule in the NFL?  When there's 30 jobs available, and African Americans represent only 13% of the population, why are teams required to interview a black man when 65% of the players are black?  And how come nobody bitches that 75% of NBA players are black?  At some point you need to be honest with yourself.  Maybe there's more black men in prison because black men commit more crimes or aren't as good at getting away with crime.  Maybe there are fewer black men in college because they average 25% lower on the SAT than whites?  Hmmm?


Crime studies don’t support your claims.  By suggesting that there is some sort of black privilege because the NBA is 75% black is another example of your white male privilege. Black men dominate the NBA because their grandparents were culled and selectively bred for performance for hundreds of years during slavery.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I would be so stoked
> 
> Loser!!!!!  Dude, what years you living in?  I know a white cop that is in prison for some really bad stuff.  Lester Lester Lester.


Hey, special needs, I provided factual stats.  If that's a problem for you, that's 2 fundamental challenges you can go spend some time on.  Yeah, I know there are bad cops, just like there are bad teachers, bad lawyers, bad pro athletes and bad coaches like the kind who ruin your life.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> Crime studies don’t support your claims.  By suggesting that there is some sort of black privilege because the NBA is 75% black is another example of your white male privilege. Black men dominate the NBA because their grandparents were culled and selectively bred for performance for hundreds of years during slavery.


Really?  Which crime studies don't support it?  Show me the link and I'll show you mine that come from the FBI.  Maybe more black men are locked up because they don't want to follow laws and do life the right way.  Maybe they can't afford good lawyers.  Maybe they shouldn't be responsible for more than 60% of violent crimes, only being 13% of the population, if they can't afford a decent lawyer.

LMAO!  Wait, did you say "culled"?  You don't get it and that's part of the problem.  Your victim mentality won't allow you to face facts.  You bitch about not having enough NFL coaching positions but not a peep about 65% of the players being black.  Not a peep about 75% of the NBA being black.  Not a peep about defending lifelong, habitual criminals (like Alton Sterling, Terence Crutcher, Eric Garner, etc) because they died being stupid rather than going to jail and being a man about it.  Any chance there can be some "culling" for education, accountability and following rules/laws?


----------



## Ellejustus

Hey Lestor, watch this great NBA highlight from 1950 and maybe this will help jug your brain a little.  Girls soccer is a little better but we haves lot's of work still until all get to play.  For example, when my little speed demon left Legends for Tad, The Gaffer and the Blues, the Legends picked up a track star from Mo Val.  Our first game as a super team, we played Legends in the Legends Classic.  VK was on the Legends and she lit us up.  Our defenders handt seen that kind of speed before. She was a little raw skills wise because she didnt play much soccer before.  My dd actually got to play with her for two months a few years later and they did really swell together.  Pass and go and their speed was tough to guard.  Anyway, she's going to Cal and JH helped out and I love that.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Hey, special needs, I provided factual stats.  If that's a problem for you, that's 2 fundamental challenges you can go spend some time on.  Yeah, I know there are bad cops, just like there are bad teachers, bad lawyers, bad pro athletes and bad coaches like the kind who ruin your life.


Law of two


----------



## EOTL

Simisoccerfan said:


> I can't read what he/she posted since I ignore him/her but I take exception to the use of Good and EOTL in the same sentence!


Someone please post “@EOTL I can’t believe you said that about Simi. That’s really out of line.”  Please. Pretty please.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> Really?  Which crime studies don't support it?  Show me the link and I'll show you mine that come from the FBI.  Maybe more black men are locked up because they don't want to follow laws and do life the right way.  Maybe they can't afford good lawyers.  Maybe they shouldn't be responsible for more than 60% of violent crimes, only being 13% of the population, if they can't afford a decent lawyer.
> 
> LMAO!  Wait, did you say "culled"?  You don't get it and that's part of the problem.  Your victim mentality won't allow you to face facts.  You bitch about not having enough NFL coaching positions but not a peep about 65% of the players being black.  Not a peep about 75% of the NBA being black.  Not a peep about defending lifelong, habitual criminals (like Alton Sterling, Terence Crutcher, Eric Garner, etc) because they died being stupid rather than going to jail and being a man about it.  Any chance there can be some "culling" for education, accountability and following rules/laws?


Funny.  You can’t win this debate, I was the research assistant to Lawrence Cohen.  









						Routine activity theory - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Really?  Which crime studies don't support it?  Show me the link and I'll show you mine that come from the FBI.  Maybe more black men are locked up because they don't want to follow laws and do life the right way.  Maybe they can't afford good lawyers.  Maybe they shouldn't be responsible for more than 60% of violent crimes, only being 13% of the population, if they can't afford a decent lawyer.
> 
> LMAO!  Wait, did you say "culled"?  You don't get it and that's part of the problem.  Your victim mentality won't allow you to face facts.  You bitch about not having enough NFL coaching positions but not a peep about 65% of the players being black.  Not a peep about 75% of the NBA being black.  Not a peep about defending lifelong, habitual criminals (like Alton Sterling, Terence Crutcher, Eric Garner, etc) because they died being stupid rather than going to jail and being a man about it.  Any chance there can be some "culling" for education, accountability and following rules/laws?


I told my wife a few days ago the forum will get Racial and Dark.  This country has more work today Lester and woman's soccer is a great place to look in da mirror.  It's men like you who live in the Law of two and you can;t escape it. So many of you live that way.  I'm blessed to live in my happy place, where special needs is ok and it rules the heavens.  Trust me on that one bro.  Seriously, heed my warning as friend helping another friend.  It beautiful and powerful on this side Lester.  Release the hate and all the darkness in your soul bro.  In fact, many of you are living in darkness and when the light shines you know what happens, right Lester? I'm sad for you.  I wish you help sir and I hope the hate in your soul gets help.  Good luck living in America when you get out of house arrest.


----------



## Ellejustus

“@EOTL I can’t believe you said that about Simi. That’s really out of line.”


----------



## VegasParent

The Outlaw said:


> So you think behavior isn't the biggest attribute there?  I've watched COPS for 30+ years.  If I had a nickel for every black man that said "---- shouldn't be illegal" I'd be retired.  And maybe white males are "over represented" because they value education more?  How come, and I've noted this before here, there is a Rooney Rule in the NFL?  When there's 30 jobs available, and African Americans represent only 13% of the population, why are teams required to interview a black man when 65% of the players are black?  And how come nobody bitches that 75% of NBA players are black?  At some point you need to be honest with yourself.  Maybe there's more black men in prison because black men commit more crimes or aren't as good at getting away with crime.  Maybe there are fewer black men in college because they average 25% lower on their SAT scores than whites.


You're bringing this argument up again? The Rooney rule is in regards to minority coaches (Black, Asian, Hispanic) not black men. The coaches and GM's (who are predominately white men) are choosing the players so bitch to them if you have a problem with that by not watching or going to the games. You say you want the best coaches to be hired but you have a problem with the best players being selected. What you really want are the best white coaches to be hired and you want the white players given more of a chances than their ability dictates they deserve. Which happens anyway. Why else would Mitch Trubisky get drafted ahead of Patrick Maholmes? And since you like throwing around stats, black offenders were 75% more likely to face a charge carrying a mandatory minimum sentence than a white offender who committed the same crime. That's why there are more black men in prison. You're creating this false narrative when you would be better off just admitting that you have a problem with black people.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Ellejustus said:


> Where have you been Lastman?  Finally pops his head out of his whole.  Is your're life better than Kickers life?  If so, you have the best life out of all three of us. Tell me the lies and I'll tell you the truth.  I warned about this league your praised so much.  It's going down..........


A fellow poster texted me to come on here and read this post. I fortunately undid my ignore button. A barrage of your minutia popped up. *So I will apologize to those who come on the forum for good and substantial reasons. And to Dominic about what I post here now. My apologies. *

Reading this post I have no FUCKING idea what you are talking about. But, I will  lie to you because the truth has never worked for you. You are not an egotistical maniacal self absorbed narcissistic who is self indulged victim of grandeur and nativity. You are also not living vicariously through someone else's accomplishments on the field and never embellish, or alter the past or current reality. No one has ever told you this on the forum that you have never needed to take pause before you say anything and you have always listened to words of wisdom. Nor have you ever regurgitated the same thing daily, as well as over and over to the point vomiting became impossible. I will have to pause here as there is so many more lies I can say. It's quite nice to lie in this manner. Fun times. 

BTW-That was all a lie.

Now for some real truth. I have never attacked any league. Feel free to read any of posts. Obviously you don't read anyone's but only laminate in what you have written. Don't threaten a league my children play in. It's no different then threatening them!  My kids have chosen their path based on what is best for them! I have never done so to you nor attacked your children! Your a prick!


----------



## Ellejustus

VegasParent said:


> You're bringing this argument up again? The Rooney rule is in regards to minority coaches (Black, Asian, Hispanic) not black men. The coaches and GM's (who are predominately white men) are choosing the players so bitch to them if you have a problem with that by not watching or going to the games. You say you want the best coaches to be hired but you have a problem with the best players being selected. What you really want are the best white coaches to be hired and you want the white players given more of a chances than their ability dictates they deserve. Which happens anyway. Why else would Mitch Trubisky get drafted ahead of Patrick Maholmes? And since you like throwing around stats, black offenders were 75% more likely to face a charge carrying a mandatory minimum sentence than a white offender who committed the same crime. That's why there are more black men in prison. You're creating this false narrative when you would be better off just admitting that you have a problem with black people.


Thank you Jesus!!!  Dude, I know I suck at writing but that was the best take in a long time.  Do you know how many white assholes get out of jail free card because they pay to play in that game too?  Lester want's us all to think that it's the black kids and the male black making the criminal choices only and that is why so many are in prison over the white man.  Crime see's no color Lester and neither does the darkness of hate. It's the one's who learn from their mistakes that make them a better man.  53 years old and I'm the special one with special needs that somehow got through the matrix of life on earth.  I know my time is short and I have no idea how long I have on earth but I will speak until I die


----------



## Ellejustus

LASTMAN14 said:


> A fellow poster texted me to come on here and read this post. I fortunately undid my ignore button. A barrage of your minutia popped up. *So I will apologize to those who come on the forum for good and substantial reasons. And to Dominic about what I post here now. My apologies. *
> 
> Reading this post I have no FUCKING idea what you are talking about. But, I will  lie to you because the truth has never worked for you. You are not an egotistical maniacal self absorbed narcissistic who is self indulged victim of grandeur and nativity. You are also not living vicariously through someone else's accomplishments on the field and never embellish, or alter the past or current reality. No one has ever told you this on the forum that you have never needed to take pause before you say anything and you have always listened to words of wisdom. Nor have you ever regurgitated the same thing daily, as well as over and over to the point vomiting became impossible. I will have to pause here as there is so many more lies I can say. It's quite nice to lie in this manner. Fun times.
> 
> BTW-That was all a lie.
> 
> Now for some real truth. I have never attacked any league. Feel free to read any of posts. Obviously you don't read anyone's but only laminate in what you have written. Don't threaten a league my children play in. It's no different then threatening them!  My kids have chosen their path based on what is best for them! I have never done so to you nor attacked your children! Your a prick!


Thanks for sharing how you truly feel.  Now, I shouldn;t have threaten the league your dd plays in.  "it's going down was my prediction in July.  For obvious reasons.  Why are all the teams bailing on this league Lstman?  God, I hope you don;t blame me for all this?  I'm sorry about that if you do.  I hope for your sake the league can stay together. I obviously pissed you off with my comments as your comments in the past have pissed me off.  So we had a little pissing match, who cares.  Let it go and move on.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Ellejustus said:


> Thanks for sharing how you truly feel.  Now, I shouldn;t have threaten the league your dd plays in.  "it's going down was my prediction in July.  For obvious reasons.  Why are all the teams bailing on this league Lstman?  God, I hope you don;t blame me for all this?  I'm sorry about that if you do.  I hope for your sake the league can stay together. I obviously pissed you off with my comments as your comments in the past have pissed me off.  So we had a little pissing match, who cares.  Let it go and move on.


Again, this is why so many have said it’s not worth debating with you. You absorb nothing. My opinion is the same as many who have directly shared with you. And, you are not walking away from these two posts so easily. You made no prediction. This is a threat, “It's going down..........” You said this. Right?! This retraction with apologizes in your statements is contrary to anything you have recently posted. So stop it. My comments in the past. You deserved it and set yourself up for it. And this is not a pissing match. Unfortunately when you call me out directly, make an idle threat, and attack it’s on you.


----------



## Ellejustus

LASTMAN14 said:


> Again, this is why so many have said it’s not worth debating with you. You absorb nothing. My opinion is the same as many who have directly shared with you. And, you are not walking away from these two posts so easily. You made no prediction. This is a threat, “It's going down..........” You said this. Right?! This retraction with apologizes in your statements is contrary to anything you have recently posted. So stop it. My comments in the past. You deserved it and set yourself up for it. And this is not a pissing match. Unfortunately when you call me out directly, make an idle threat, and attack it’s on you.


Cool, let's play.  Give me some time to go back to July or August and I will show.  @Desert Hound said no way too.  I predicted it back in the day.  Ask everyone at Surf who used to work their.  I told them the same thing I'm telling you bro. "It's going down was about something else in my mind but you took the way you did so I'll play along to help you cope through this house arrest.  What does, "It's going down" mean?  It means that talks are going down as we speak.  It's on"  It's going down"  Hey Kicker, whats the low down for GDA next season?  I asked him the question and he has yet to answer.  it makes me wonder whats going down at the meetings.  Big decisions loom in the air for the big clubs.  That's what I mean by "It's going down.....


----------



## LASTMAN14

Ellejustus said:


> Cool, let's play.  Give me some time to go back to July or August and I will show.  @Desert Hound said no way too.  I predicted it back in the day.  Ask everyone at Surf who used to work their.  I told them the same thing I'm telling you bro. "It's going down was about something else in my mind but you took the way you did so I'll play along to help you cope through this house arrest.  What does, "It's going down" mean?  It means that talks are going down as we speak.  It's on"  It's going down"  Hey Kicker, whats the low down for GDA next season?  I asked him the question and he has yet to answer.  it makes me wonder whats going down at the meetings.  Big decisions loom in the air for the big clubs.  That's what I mean by "It's going down.....


Again, what are you talking about. All you do is detract from any topic. Go astray. A rabbit hole. I am not talking about leagues. I'm speaking to the matter of the BS you spew on here. How you derail threads. Post to yourself. And, so much more.


----------



## Ellejustus

LASTMAN14 said:


> Again, what are you talking about. All you do is detract from any topic. Go astray. A rabbit hole. I am not talking about leagues. I'm speaking to the matter of the BS you spew on here. How you derail threads. Post to yourself. And, so much more.


Let's see, this week I touched on how unfair most of girls have been treated and how come no pro league.  I got attacked for that and called stupid and a damm fool.  I touched on how the WNT have been treated as second. I also touched on race and how much rich white folks control a league that claims that they develop all the goats only.  That's why your so mad?


----------



## LASTMAN14

Ellejustus said:


> Let's see, this week I touched on how unfair most of girls have been treated and how come no pro league.  I got attacked for that and called stupid and a damm fool.  I touched on how the WNT have been treated as second. I also touched on race and how much rich white folks control a league that claims that they develop all the goats only.  That's why your so mad?


Wow! Not talking to you about any of that. It was never the point. Mad, tired of you making posts like this which have nothing to do what you and I are talking about. Stop fast forwarding.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> Cool, let's play.  Give me some time to go back to July or August and I will show.  @Desert Hound said no way too.  I predicted it back in the day.  Ask everyone at Surf who used to work their.  I told them the same thing I'm telling you bro. "It's going down was about something else in my mind but you took the way you did so I'll play along to help you cope through this house arrest.  What does, "It's going down" mean?  It means that talks are going down as we speak.  It's on"  It's going down"  Hey Kicker, whats the low down for GDA next season?  I asked him the question and he has yet to answer.  it makes me wonder whats going down at the meetings.  Big decisions loom in the air for the big clubs.  That's what I mean by "It's going down.....


No idea, but be careful what you wish for.  If GDA goes away, there are going to be a lot of real GOATS turning their focus back to ECNL.  Could make those starting spots a lot harder to come by.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> No idea, but be careful what you wish for.  If GDA goes away, there are going to be a lot of real GOATS turning their focus back to ECNL.  Could make those starting spots a lot harder to come by.


I know, my kid is is training really hard to make next year's team.  She doesn;t care if she starts Kicker.  She just wants to be on a team.  If the competition is fair without favoritism, then she might have a chance to start next year.  Fingers are crossed


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> No idea, but be careful what you wish for.  If GDA goes away, there are going to be a lot of real GOATS turning their focus back to ECNL.  Could make those starting spots a lot harder to come by.


Plus, you might want to let all the 25%ters that at the ECNL no promises of starts or of playing time.  That was AYSO and GDA rules.  This is my first real year in ECNL and it seems to be fair with the sub rule and everyone gets to play some.  What a nightmare for a coach to have to manage promised start times for parents who pay for that.  Yikes!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

Just having fun guys.  Don;t take it personal.  Enjoy the ride and if the ride continues another year I wish you all the best


----------



## LASTMAN14

Ellejustus said:


> View attachment 6747
> 
> Just having fun guys.  Don;t take it personal.  Enjoy the ride and if the ride continues another year I wish you all the best


Sorry. No. You took it there. Your retracting from having to take any accountability. This is you deflecting.


----------



## dad4

Kicker4Life said:


> No idea, but be careful what you wish for.  If GDA goes away, there are going to be a lot of real GOATS turning their focus back to ECNL.  Could make those starting spots a lot harder to come by.


To be honest, I'm kind of hoping they merge the leagues but keep the inflated number of teams.

I don't want to drive/fly very far.  More teams, all in one league, would mean better local competition.  

(My daughter disagrees.  She wants to fly down to Socal three times a year so she can play the top teams there.  She's nuts.)


----------



## Ellejustus

LASTMAN14 said:


> Sorry. No. You took it there. Your retracting from having to take any accountability. This is you deflecting.


Dude, I'm stuck in my house.  This is my source of sports & entertainment.  I haven;t talk to you in months. I never liked how you picked on me in the early days but I don;t hate you. This has always been about equal access for all girls bro.  The league you care about so much blocked many others from entering.  I'm super serious. That is all I care about 100%.  Believe me or not, that is the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God.  I swear on the good book or any book you want to bring if you don;t believe me.  You come on hear with a huff and a puff and blow my house down with your anger towards me.  You need to go run around the block and start over tomorrow with me.  I want you to come clean with me and the others why your so mad if this league can;t make it next year. BTW, I think the GDA stands for something totally different.  I won;t share what I think G D A really stands for. Kicker talked to me like I was a sucker too and I didn;t take to kind to that either. I think we can all come together like soccer dad of 4 said.  This travel stuff is for the birds.  Play local so you can stay local brah!!!!


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Ellejustus said:


> You don;t like sports, I can tell.  My dd can walk on then because she probably won;t need any money from the college.  We are very unique and wont take up the funds. They can give all the money to the goat(s).  She wants to win College Cup so that's cool for me.  Came out of knowhere too. I'm getting out of this house asap btw.  We went LBHS to train today and all locked up.  I bet you called the cops on us too.  Today, we went to a grass park with no one there and a Sheriff Helicopter told us to get on the sidewalk.  We obeyed


Wrong!  Sports have been my whole life!  Lol


----------



## Ellejustus

Plus, I dont care and neither does my dd if she comes off the bench because all the goats come over to ECNL from the GDA. It will be hard actually for all us over at ECNL to keep our spots on the team.  Ask soccer guru, he knows the scene so gooder then all the others


----------



## silverback

Please dear God, make this clown STFU and go away.


----------



## Ellejustus

Simisoccerfan said:


> Wrong!  Sports have been my whole life!  Lol


I didnlt mean all sports.  I wanted to say, "You don;t seem to like hs sports that much."  You seem like me that we all need a break.  I'm going platinum soon so I will be able to crocrect my spelling.  My wife or dd come on here to correct my spelling when they can (That was a joke @Giesbock just so you know)  Again, ask me anytime if you think I'm pulling a fast one past you bro.  I strike out Kicker all the time but he has no idea.  He plays baseball where you dont ever strikeout.  JK kidding kicker, that was my alter ego kicking in.  I'm too damm competitive and rub folks the wrong way.


----------



## Ellejustus

silverback said:


> Please dear God, make this clown STFU and go away.


Dear God, please show silver backs he needs to not swear at me.  I forgive you silver backs and I also forgive Kicker and lastman.  Guys, I have no hate at all towards of you.  I predicted this time would come.  Lets talk it out tmrw around 7am.  The Toxic Soccer War of 2016 is almost over.  Just on this thread too.  I'm only really finishing the book and then I'll be so long gone I promise.  You wont miss me or ever think about me in your sleep.  Just like end of the line guy and maps who comes around oh so often.  The hate PMs are worse then being called a prick and to f off and all that.  Talk tomorrow boys


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> Dear God, please show silver backs he needs to not swear at me.  I forgive you silver backs and I also forgive Kicker and lastman.  Guys, I have no hate at all towards of you.  I predicted this time would come.  Lets talk it out tmrw around 7am.  The Toxic Soccer War of 2016 is almost over.  Just on this thread too.  I'm only really finishing the book and then I'll be so long gone I promise.  You wont miss me or ever think about me in your sleep.  Just like end of the line guy and maps who comes around oh so often.  The hate PMs are worse then being called a prick and to f off and all that.  Talk tomorrow boys


Reap what you sow.....


----------



## Ellejustus

EJ:  "It's going down......"
Lastman: Are you threatening me EJ?
EJ: No, why?
Lastman: You said, "It's going down....."
EJ: Oh sorry Lastman, I was referring to the meetings that are taking place about the future of the G D A League.
Lastmad: You threaten to take down my dd league is a direct threat to me and all my friends in the league. It's on!!!  That's an idea threat EJ
EJ: Easy there cowboy.  Your not the judge of my thoughts. You misread me on "its going down...."  I did predict the GDA not lasting, but I wasn;t trying to say, "It's going down man, no more GDA....hahahahhaha sucker"  You attacked me like I was saying that.  I can;t win with any of you guys.  Good nite now!!!!  
EJ:  BTW Lastman, why the mean comments from the past?
Lastman: Because EJ, I'm the last man you want to mess with and you deserve what I say you deserve you crazy ass multi personality fool.
EJ:  OK, good night Lastman.  Talks with you and Kicker tomorrow.  I'm open to a more kind discussion about how to get a pro league going.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Ellejustus said:


> Dude, I'm stuck in my house.  This is my source of sports & entertainment.  I haven;t talk to you in months. I never liked how you picked on me in the early days but I don;t hate you. This has always been about equal access for all girls bro.  The league you care about so much blocked many others from entering.  I'm super serious. That is all I care about 100%.  Believe me or not, that is the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God.  I swear on the good book or any book you want to bring if you don;t believe me.  You come on hear with a huff and a puff and blow my house down with your anger towards me.  You need to go run around the block and start over tomorrow with me.  I want you to come clean with me and the others why your so mad if this league can;t make it next year. BTW, I think the GDA stands for something totally different.  I won;t share what I think G D A really stands for. Kicker talked to me like I was a sucker too and I didn;t take to kind to that either. I think we can all come together like soccer dad of 4 said.  This travel stuff is for the birds.  Play local so you can stay local brah!!!!


Not interested in this. This is not our topic. Stay on topic. Nor does what you posted here have much to do with anything being discussed .


----------



## Ellejustus

LASTMAN14 said:


> Not interested in this. This is not our topic. Stay on topic. Nor does what you posted here have much to do with anything being discussed .


What is our topic and I will go to sleep and get prepared for tmrw.  Freaking Santa Clara County is on some serious lock down bro.  It's time to chill and take walks now.  I tried to sneak out but sheriff is flying around.


----------



## LASTMAN14

LASTMAN14 said:


> Not interested in this. This is not our topic. Stay on topic.





Ellejustus said:


> What is our topic and I will go to sleep and get prepared for tmrw.  Freaking Santa Clara County is on some serious lock down bro.  It's time to chill and take walks now.  I tried to sneak out but sheriff is flying around.


See my first post. Or 2-5. I pointed this out to you several times.


----------



## Ellejustus

Which one of you said this about poor old Larry.  He's such a nice guy and one of you write like he's some creeper stalking parents of little girls in the South Bay. That so wrong and really pissed me off.  He might be crazy Larry, but's he's not a creeper.

*"I’m in the South Bay. LD from Blues would drive out from OC and find out where our girls would train. He then stalk our parents after practice. He also admitted that he liked to get our players and had very little competition in getting them."*

A true Monopoly.....lol!!!!  Plucking the goats from your pens pissed you both off.  It's written all over your posts the last 9 months. The only thing he and Tad and the Gaffer were up to was stalking true goat talent and that is is how true competition works.  Reap what you sow.......

What is the meaning of stalk parents?
Stalking is the act of following parents of a true goat very closely and watching their every move. If you're a very famous movie star, it's quite likely that someone is stalking you even as you read this sentence! The verb to stalk means to pursue carefully, and often stealthily.  




Lastman and Kicker stalk EJ's every post on the socal forum


----------



## Ellejustus

LASTMAN14 said:


> See my first post. Or 2-5. I pointed this out to you several times.


I need a topic bro.  Just one.  A theme, something for tmrw.  Don;t get mad at me either


----------



## MacDre

MakeAPlay said:


> It's like $250 for the season ticket package but you are 100% correct.


I understand the NWSL is not on the same level as the MLS.  The NWSL has not been around as long and doesn’t receive the same financial support.  I’m arguing that the NWSL is a pre text that allows USSF and MLS to limit opportunities to women.

I think the MLS should be boycotted until every team supports a women’s team equally.
Or, I guess we can all sit back and keep letting the system pimp our daughter’s.  

Man, all the homies in the hood thought pimping was dead; a thing of the past.  I have to let hood know that the pimping industry is thriving; it looks like the pimps moved from the inner city streets to women’s soccer.

I think the new motto for the MLS (any maybe USSF) should be AOB.  For those that don’t know, that’s hood pimp talk and it means it’s:

All On a Bitch!  Yaddida mean pimpin.


----------



## Ellejustus

*April Fools Day*​
Today is a day for all the fools to play. 

Today's theme: ECNL vs GDA Turf war has created a "toxic environment."

Topic: Toxic Girls youth soccer Environment: Why?

Today's Debaters: @LASTMAN14 @Kicker4Life vs EJ
Background:  Lastman and Kicker are all in that G D A League down in the South Bay.  They have both benefited tremendously from being loyal to their Docs.  EJ is all in ECNL as of today. He was not loyal to his old Doc at the #1 G D A Club and has paid a price for asking too many questions. However, EJ was in flavor of a top top league and he honestly thought that was going to be that G D A League.  GDA league was supposed to produce "world class" players for the WNT & Pros and get ALL the kids, rich and poor, black and white and all in between to join their new league.  No one was supposed to be locked out because they couldn;t afford to play and travel all over the country spending up to $15K (according to Hope Solo). The ECNL League produces "Elite" soccer players for college only.  One league is a private business (ECNL) and the other is run out of Chicago and is supposed to make sure ALL girls get a shot at the league and YNT and represent all the girls in the whole United States of America soccer team.

First question to Lastman & Kicker.  How toxic of an environment do we have today and why is it Toxic.  I will wait for both of your responses.  If I don;t here from you soon, then I will answer what I think you would say.  Once you respond, I will repsond with why I think it is all Toxic and full of rage dudes. 

One of you remind me of Judge Smails with all the anger on my rants about unfair treatment of the girls


----------



## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> I understand the NWSL is not on the same level as the MLS.  The NWSL has not been around as long and doesn’t receive the same financial support.  I’m arguing that the NWSL is a pre text that allows USSF and MLS to limit opportunities to women.
> 
> I think the MLS should be boycotted until every team supports a women’s team equally.
> Or, I guess we can all sit back and keep letting the system pimp our daughter’s.
> 
> Man, all the homies in the hood thought pimping was dead; a thing of the past.  I have to let hood know that the pimping industry is thriving; it looks like the pimps moved from the inner city streets to women’s soccer.
> 
> I think the new motto for the MLS (any maybe USSF) should be AOB.  For those that don’t know, that’s hood pimp talk and it means it’s:
> 
> All On a Bitch!  Yaddida mean pimpin.


I find it interesting that whenever I go deep and talk about the pimps in girls soccer and how race is 100% an issue in girls soccer, these elitistist dads come out of their dark hole and pop their scared little heads bark, bark, bark out BS.  Look at how they keep attacking me for speaking the truth in love.  Truth hurts but that is the only way to fix this toxic mess.  Pimps is a good word.  Taking advantage of little 11, 12 and 13 years olds and their foolish dad.  Shame on all you that support mistreatment of female athletes in the USA.  Horrible what I witnessed at that G D A league that everyone is bailing on across the country.  Girl soccer pimps.  Yuk!!!  Sickos!!!! "It's going down...." @MacDre  I hope you knw what that means when I say, "Its going down....."


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Hey Lestor, watch this great NBA highlight from 1950 and maybe this will help jug your brain a little.  Girls soccer is a little better but we haves lot's of work still until all get to play.  For example, when my little speed demon left Legends for Tad, The Gaffer and the Blues, the Legends picked up a track star from Mo Val.  Our first game as a super team, we played Legends in the Legends Classic.  VK was on the Legends and she lit us up.  Our defenders handt seen that kind of speed before. She was a little raw skills wise because she didnt play much soccer before.  My dd actually got to play with her for two months a few years later and they did really swell together.  Pass and go and their speed was tough to guard.  Anyway, she's going to Cal and JH helped out and I love that.


Hey, Spicoli, no more cannabis infused videos, k?  Every one of your posts drops my IQ 10 points.  I don't need my brain "jugged" by you.


----------



## Ellejustus

Hello??  I'm sure you two were playing video games late into the night.  I'll give you some time to wake up.  Kickers life is way better than my life so I'm sure someone is getting his breakfast ready for him as I write.  Must be nice to live a better life than your neighbor. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around how guys like Kicker compete in life on the planet.  Also, I'm still waiting on Kicker to share how he "grew up in the game" and that helped him maneuver around all the pimps land spread throughout Socal.  I guess the I found the pimps and he found the best Doc ever.  You need to share more about that.  I would have more respect for you Kicker.  I mean that Kicker, please share


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> Funny.  You can’t win this debate, I was the research assistant to Lawrence Cohen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Routine activity theory - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org


Are you aware it's no longer 1974?  Just so I know, because I never received the memo, how much longer do we blame slavery, Dre?


----------



## Ellejustus

Listen Outlaw, by buddy is making $50 an hour with tip delivering medical herb to all people, all over the South OC. All legal too.  5 years ago he would be a criminal.  Not no more, his business is "essential" to helping some cope through this lock down He doesn;t even smoke hippie lettuce.  I couldn;t do that job because I would smoke all my profits


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I told my wife a few days ago the forum will get Racial and Dark.  This country has more work today Lester and woman's soccer is a great place to look in da mirror.  It's men like you who live in the Law of two and you can;t escape it. So many of you live that way.  I'm blessed to live in my happy place, where special needs is ok and it rules the heavens.  Trust me on that one bro.  Seriously, heed my warning as friend helping another friend.  It beautiful and powerful on this side Lester.  Release the hate and all the darkness in your soul bro.  In fact, many of you are living in darkness and when the light shines you know what happens, right Lester? I'm sad for you.  I wish you help sir and I hope the hate in your soul gets help.  Good luck living in America when you get out of house arrest.


You live in California... where your "happy place" is a great place to hide from reality.  The rest of us are tired of pretending the facts don't matter.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

VegasParent said:


> You're bringing this argument up again? The Rooney rule is in regards to minority coaches (Black, Asian, Hispanic) not black men. The coaches and GM's (who are predominately white men) are choosing the players so bitch to them if you have a problem with that by not watching or going to the games. You say you want the best coaches to be hired but you have a problem with the best players being selected. What you really want are the best white coaches to be hired and you want the white players given more of a chances than their ability dictates they deserve. Which happens anyway. Why else would Mitch Trubisky get drafted ahead of Patrick Maholmes? And since you like throwing around stats, black offenders were 75% more likely to face a charge carrying a mandatory minimum sentence than a white offender who committed the same crime. That's why there are more black men in prison. You're creating this false narrative when you would be better off just admitting that you have a problem with black people.


When was the last time you heard Hispanic or Asian coaches complain about jobs?  In fact, when was the FIRST time you heard it?  Trubisky was drafted before Mahomes because the draft is a best guess.  It's the same reason Tom Brady went where he went.  It's the same reason Vince Young was drafted before Jay Cutler.  It's the same reason the Raiders were stupid enough to draft Jamarcus Russell.

Bitch to the GMs?  Why?  They weren't the ones whining about political correctness.  They don't want to be forced to interview someone.  They don't want to insult minority candidates with quotas.  And I don't have a problem with the best players being selected.  I have a problem with black people whining there aren't enough black coaches when 65% of the league is black.  I have a problem with black people whining about 30 NFL coaching jobs when 75% of the NBA is black.  You can deflect all you want but those are the facts.  I want the best VP candidate but Dementia Joe promises, 7 months ahead of time, that he's going to partner with a woman.  Why?  Because it's politically correct?  LMAO!  Give me your source about "black offenders more likely..."  I love hearing all these "facts" thrown around with no source... yet none of you challenge my numbers, provided by FBI crime stats, because you know I can back them and you don't want the truth.  You push the victim narrative because it suits you... yet it's not factual.  Post your source.  I don't have a problem with black people.  I have a problem with black people being the perpetual victim when statistical facts show otherwise.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Thank you Jesus!!!  Dude, I know I suck at writing but that was the best take in a long time.  Do you know how many white assholes get out of jail free card because they pay to play in that game too?  Lester want's us all to think that it's the black kids and the male black making the criminal choices only and that is why so many are in prison over the white man.  Crime see's no color Lester and neither does the darkness of hate. It's the one's who learn from their mistakes that make them a better man.  53 years old and I'm the special one with special needs that somehow got through the matrix of life on earth.  I know my time is short and I have no idea how long I have on earth but I will speak until I die


Hey, Romie, get your own material.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> Are you aware it's no longer 1974?  Just so I know, because I never received the memo, how much longer do we blame slavery, Dre?


Ask any federal judge about the man.  Ask anyone that studies crime in the UC system or Ivies.  Ask anyone who has studied criminology.  
Your not making any sense my friend 

How long do we blame slavery...good question.  From what I could find in my family records it appears that there was over 300 years of slavery; the majority of the freed slaves were 12-14 years old; then policies such as the black codes, segregation, COINTELPRO, and the war on drugs were implemented through institutionalized racism.

So if you consider the above, how long do you think it should take for the descendants of slaves to recover?


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> When was the last time you heard Hispanic or Asian coaches complain about jobs?  In fact, when was the FIRST time you heard it?  Trubisky was drafted before Mahomes because the draft is a best guess.  It's the same reason Tom Brady went where he went.  It's the same reason Vince Young was drafted before Jay Cutler.  It's the same reason the Raiders were stupid enough to draft Jamarcus Russell.
> 
> Bitch to the GMs?  Why?  They weren't the ones whining about political correctness.  They don't want to be forced to interview someone.  They don't want to insult minority candidates with quotas.  And I don't have a problem with the best players being selected.  I have a problem with black people whining there aren't enough black coaches when 65% of the league is black.  I have a problem with black people whining about 30 NFL coaching jobs when 75% of the NBA is black.  You can deflect all you want but those are the facts.  I want the best VP candidate but Dementia Joe promises, 7 months ahead of time, that he's going to partner with a woman.  Why?  Because it's politically correct?  LMAO!  Give me your source about "black offenders more likely..."  I love hearing all these "facts" thrown around with no source... yet none of you challenge my numbers, provided by FBI crime stats, because you know I can back them and you don't want the truth.  You push the victim narrative because it suits you... yet it's not factual.  Post your source.  I don't have a problem with black people.  I have a problem with black people being the perpetual victim when statistical facts show otherwise.


Mainly for diversity of thought.  White coaches are cool and they provide value but they are limited by their experiences as white men.  When you have a league of players that are majority black you also need black leadership.  
I think you also see this issue play out in women’s sports.  And it’s also wrong when women’s teams don’t have female coaches due present and past institutionalized sexism.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Hey, Romie, get your own material.


Listen Lester, you finally get me.  I listen to Rome for a long time as salesman in the 90s.   He got way too commercial for me now days.  However, when he was on the mighty 690 before the Loose Cannons I was a proud jungle listener.  Rome should do a show about you and your dark hate.  Are you sure you have all the facts?


----------



## VegasParent

The Outlaw said:


> When was the last time you heard Hispanic or Asian coaches complain about jobs?  In fact, when was the FIRST time you heard it?  Trubisky was drafted before Mahomes because the draft is a best guess.  It's the same reason Tom Brady went where he went.  It's the same reason Vince Young was drafted before Jay Cutler.  It's the same reason the Raiders were stupid enough to draft Jamarcus Russell.
> 
> Bitch to the GMs?  Why?  They weren't the ones whining about political correctness.  They don't want to be forced to interview someone.  They don't want to insult minority candidates with quotas.  And I don't have a problem with the best players being selected.  I have a problem with black people whining there aren't enough black coaches when 65% of the league is black.  I have a problem with black people whining about 30 NFL coaching jobs when 75% of the NBA is black.  You can deflect all you want but those are the facts.  I want the best VP candidate but Dementia Joe promises, 7 months ahead of time, that he's going to partner with a woman.  Why?  Because it's politically correct?  LMAO!  Give me your source about "black offenders more likely..."  I love hearing all these "facts" thrown around with no source... yet none of you challenge my numbers, provided by FBI crime stats, because you know I can back them and you don't want the truth.  You push the victim narrative because it suits you... yet it's not factual.  Post your source.  I don't have a problem with black people.  I have a problem with black people being the perpetual victim when statistical facts show otherwise.


You previously posted that it was "white oppression" that there were more black players than white players in the NBA and NFL. That's what you should bitch to GMs about. I have no problem with the best candidates being selected as coaches but if most coaches are former players and there is a higher number of minority players you would think there would be more minority coaches. The link to my source is below.



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/16/black-men-sentenced-to-more-time-for-committing-the-exact-same-crime-as-a-white-person-study-finds/


----------



## Giesbock

I’ll chime in uninvited. Not an adversarial position... just a question:  where in the DA mandate do they talk about making the league accessible to all girls?  That seems a lot more in line with AYSO’s mandate.


----------



## Sandypk

You know the best thing to do is to not engage with him.  It was a good honest try, but attention seekers need to be ignored.  We would all be better off if we just let him talk to himself.  He reminds me of a spoiled child.  Always needing attention and if things don’t go his way, he cries and blames others.  I hope we all put him back on ignore and continue to talk soccer in a way to help each other.  

That’s what he loves anyway, hearing himself talk.  Oh and bragging about his dd the goat who isn’t getting a free ride or a YNT invite.  And also whining that his dd wasn’t good enough for some teams/coaches or not getting exceptions to rules or waivers like rich kids.  Almost forgot, life isn’t fair if you’re not white and rich.  Don’t forget all the times he was lied to and duped.  We can’t forget any of this because it’s been on repeat for 77 idiotic pages and on many hijacked threads.  

ECNL vs DA Turf War thread...not really.  Just a little man whining and complaining about how life isn’t fair. 
Hate to break it to him, but life is not fair.  Life has a lot of ups and downs, but someone needs to tell him that we get up and keep working.  Blaming does no good.  Complaining does no good.  Spreading rumors and putting others down does no good.

Someone needs to tell him that if his dd is good enough, you wouldn’t need to complain so much about the club soccer world.  He wouldn’t need to ask for free handouts or beg to be treated like the greatest goat of all time (only his opinion)).  

Real goats don’t get special treatment, they earn it.  Tell him to let his dd prove her own worth without daddy complaining all the time.  How embarrassing it must be for her to have her whole life documented on a forum to strangers.   I feel so bad for her.  I hope she never reads his posts.

BTW, everything you said to him was on everyone’s mind.  Thanks for trying to get him to focus on a topic or at least try to get him to make sense.  I appreciate the effort.

I miss the old forum when people actually posted helpful information and posters didn’t hijack threads with their own personal bullshit.

Stay healthy and safe everyone.


----------



## espola

Sandypk said:


> You know the best thing to do is to not engage with him.  It was a good honest try, but attention seekers need to be ignored.  We would all be better off if we just let him talk to himself.  He reminds me of a spoiled child.  Always needing attention and if things don’t go his way, he cries and blames others.  I hope we all put him back on ignore and continue to talk soccer in a way to help each other.
> 
> That’s what he loves anyway, hearing himself talk.  Oh and bragging about his dd the goat who isn’t getting a free ride or a YNT invite.  And also whining that his dd wasn’t good enough for some teams/coaches or not getting exceptions to rules or waivers like rich kids.  Almost forgot, life isn’t fair if you’re not white and rich.  Don’t forget all the times he was lied to and duped.  We can’t forget any of this because it’s been on repeat for 77 idiotic pages and on many hijacked threads.
> 
> ECNL vs DA Turf War thread...not really.  Just a little man whining and complaining about how life isn’t fair.
> Hate to break it to him, but life is not fair.  Life has a lot of ups and downs, but someone needs to tell him that we get up and keep working.  Blaming does no good.  Complaining does no good.  Spreading rumors and putting others down does no good.
> 
> Someone needs to tell him that if his dd is good enough, you wouldn’t need to complain so much about the club soccer world.  He wouldn’t need to ask for free handouts or beg to be treated like the greatest goat of all time (only his opinion)).
> 
> Real goats don’t get special treatment, they earn it.  Tell him to let his dd prove her own worth without daddy complaining all the time.  How embarrassing it must be for her to have her whole life documented on a forum to strangers.   I feel so bad for her.  I hope she never reads his posts.
> 
> BTW, everything you said to him was on everyone’s mind.  Thanks for trying to get him to focus on a topic or at least try to get him to make sense.  I appreciate the effort.
> 
> I miss the old forum when people actually posted helpful information and posters didn’t hijack threads with their own personal bullshit.
> 
> Stay healthy and safe everyone.


Which one are you talking about here?


----------



## Sandypk

espola said:


> Which one are you talking about here?


I wasn’t sure which alter ego he was today, so I don’t know.  More of an open letter to a person with multiple personality traits.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> Ask any federal judge about the man.  Ask anyone that studies crime in the UC system or Ivies.  Ask anyone who has studied criminology.
> Your not making any sense my friend
> 
> How long do we blame slavery...good question.  From what I could find in my family records it appears that there was over 300 years of slavery; the majority of the freed slaves were 12-14 years old; then policies such as the black codes, segregation, COINTELPRO, and the war on drugs were implemented through institutionalized racism.
> 
> So if you consider the above, how long do you think it should take for the descendants of slaves to recover?


Ask any federal judge what?  The same judges you suggest are putting black men away in unfair and unjust numbers?  I took criminology classes in college.  A liberal professor once stood in front of the class and said the death penalty does not deter criminals from murdering people.  I told him I could think of at least ONE person that was deterred.  The class laughed and he kicked me out for the day... but I digress.  

As for no longer using slavery as an excuse?  Well, let's see... my grandfather was the product of a rape.  He was adopted, we changed our last name and moved on.  Hasn't been a single day my father or I were deterred from valuing education, hard work and the laws we're all required to abide by.  Again... we can disagree... but it's an excuse.  Nobody living in 2020 is denied the opportunity to be successful.  RAP music proves that to be true if nothing else does.


----------



## Ellejustus

Hey Sandy, I got's an ad for you.  I hope you survive all this.  So today's topic was about the unfair treatment from the pimps in soccer.  Plus, race and how expensive it it for poor families to play in the G D A League.  That's all I'm talking about today. Attack me all you want.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> Mainly for diversity of thought.  White coaches are cool and they provide value but they are limited by their experiences as white men.  When you have a league of players that are majority black you also need black leadership.
> I think you also see this issue play out in women’s sports.  And it’s also wrong when women’s teams don’t have female coaches due present and past institutionalized sexism.


Limited by their experiences?  What experiences?  And there are black, position coaches all over the NFL.  Now, you can defer to that fucking moron, LeBron James, who says black NFL players are slaves to the white plantation owners, but I bet you think that's a good look, right?  LOL!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Listen Lester, you finally get me.  I listen to Rome for a long time as salesman in the 90s.   He got way too commercial for me now days.  However, when he was on the mighty 690 before the Loose Cannons I was a proud jungle listener.  Rome should do a show about you and your dark hate.  Are you sure you have all the facts?


Yeah, I get you... I listened to Rome, too, back in the 690 days and I was in my very early 20's.  He's done quite well for himself... being a rich white boy from Calabasas.  Oh, but wait, you hate wealthy white guys.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

VegasParent said:


> You previously posted that it was "white oppression" that there were more black players than white players in the NBA and NFL. That's what you should bitch to GMs about. I have no problem with the best candidates being selected as coaches but if most coaches are former players and there is a higher number of minority players you would think there would be more minority coaches. The link to my source is below.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/16/black-men-sentenced-to-more-time-for-committing-the-exact-same-crime-as-a-white-person-study-finds/


Did I post that?  I don't recall.  That said, I'm not bitching about the NBA being 75% black and I'm not bitching about the NFL being 65% black.  I think the best players should play regardless of skin color.  We probably should avoid "the content of their character" at this point.  What I'm bitching about is black people bitching there aren't enough black head coaches.  That's 30 jobs for fuck's sake.  And yes, there are more minorities looking for those jobs now, but most head coaches weren't traditionally in their 30's and 40's.  It's heading that way but most coaches were considerably older... like played in the 70's.  If it's fair to bitch about very few black coaches, it's fair to bitch there aren't enough Asians, Hispanics and whites in the NBA.  So do you see how ridiculous that is?  My guess is there's just a shortage of qualified coaches, period, because the same shitty coaches keep getting jobs, over and over again, and there must be a simple reason for that.

I read your article... too much to post in terms of thoughts and objections.  Frankly, it's a non issue if you aren't a criminal and don't get arrested.  I don't have much sympathy for people that keep going to jail... regardless of ethnicity.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Sandypk said:


> You know the best thing to do is to not engage with him.  It was a good honest try, but attention seekers need to be ignored.  We would all be better off if we just let him talk to himself.  He reminds me of a spoiled child.  Always needing attention and if things don’t go his way, he cries and blames others.  I hope we all put him back on ignore and continue to talk soccer in a way to help each other.
> 
> That’s what he loves anyway, hearing himself talk.  Oh and bragging about his dd the goat who isn’t getting a free ride or a YNT invite.  And also whining that his dd wasn’t good enough for some teams/coaches or not getting exceptions to rules or waivers like rich kids.  Almost forgot, life isn’t fair if you’re not white and rich.  Don’t forget all the times he was lied to and duped.  We can’t forget any of this because it’s been on repeat for 77 idiotic pages and on many hijacked threads.
> 
> ECNL vs DA Turf War thread...not really.  Just a little man whining and complaining about how life isn’t fair.
> Hate to break it to him, but life is not fair.  Life has a lot of ups and downs, but someone needs to tell him that we get up and keep working.  Blaming does no good.  Complaining does no good.  Spreading rumors and putting others down does no good.
> 
> Someone needs to tell him that if his dd is good enough, you wouldn’t need to complain so much about the club soccer world.  He wouldn’t need to ask for free handouts or beg to be treated like the greatest goat of all time (only his opinion)).
> 
> Real goats don’t get special treatment, they earn it.  Tell him to let his dd prove her own worth without daddy complaining all the time.  How embarrassing it must be for her to have her whole life documented on a forum to strangers.   I feel so bad for her.  I hope she never reads his posts.
> 
> BTW, everything you said to him was on everyone’s mind.  Thanks for trying to get him to focus on a topic or at least try to get him to make sense.  I appreciate the effort.
> 
> I miss the old forum when people actually posted helpful information and posters didn’t hijack threads with their own personal bullshit.
> 
> Stay healthy and safe everyone.


Wonderful post! Yes I hit the ignore button again last night.


----------



## Sandypk

LASTMAN14 said:


> Wonderful post! Yes I hit the ignore button again last night.


I am on ignore again, as well.  But, I had to climb out of my rabbit hole to visit the forum one last time.  
Back into my rabbit hole.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> Ask any federal judge what?  The same judges you suggest are putting black men away in unfair and unjust numbers?  I took criminology classes in college.  A liberal professor once stood in front of the class and said the death penalty does not deter criminals from murdering people.  I told him I could think of at least ONE person that was deterred.  The class laughed and he kicked me out for the day... but I digress.
> 
> As for no longer using slavery as an excuse?  Well, let's see... my grandfather was the product of a rape.  He was adopted, we changed our last name and moved on.  Hasn't been a single day my father or I were deterred from valuing education, hard work and the laws we're all required to abide by.  Again... we can disagree... but it's an excuse.  Nobody living in 2020 is denied the opportunity to be successful.  RAP music proves that to be true if nothing else does.


You didn’t answer the question...how much time?  Quantify it...give me the number?
Oh yeah, all of my grandmothers were raped too on my USA side of the family during slavery.  That’s part of the reason I have a relatively high percentage of European blood.


----------



## Ellejustus

Discussion between Sandy and EJ earlier today

Sandy: Don;t listen to him everyone

EJ: Listen to my rants everyone.  The truth shall set you free.  This is where it all started in July and where it will end

Sandy: We would all be better off if we just let him talk to himself 

EJ:  Well Sandy, you just open your mouth and now your not following your own advice

Sandy: ECNL vs DA Turf War thread...not really. Just a *little man whining *and complaining about how life isn’t fair. 

EJ: This is about how unfair life was to 11 and 12 year old girls only.  That is important for all of us, or at least it should be except for the pimps

Sandy: Hate to break it to him, but life is not fair. 

EJ:  Let's make it fairer for the little 12 and 13 year old girls and all their big sisters before them.  Is it within the realm of possibilities Sandy?

Sandy: Someone needs to tell him that* if* his dd is good enough, you wouldn’t need to complain so much about the club soccer world. He wouldn’t 
need to *ask for free handouts *or *beg to be treated like the greatest goat of all time *

EJ: I never asked for a free handout Sandy.  You have the facts wrong.  All the top top G D A clubs Docs offered me (her) the free handouts because she was a goat when she was 11 and 12.   They were begging me for her services........That's the truth Sandy the PKer

Sandy: Real goats don’t get special treatment, they earn it. 

EJ:  Oh really Sandy?  And what sport are you talking about?  Girls soccer?  OK, I agree with you.  Just like coach Paul sort of said. "The bigger question want girls want to go full time soccer?"  My question to you Sandy and to coach Paul is why should a 12 and 13 year old girl go "full time" when the older woman in the sport get paid peanuts for going full time.  Who pays $15K to be a full time soccer player?  What planet did you watch sports when your were a little kid?  Real Goats don;t get special treatment.....barf barf barf!!!!!

Sandy: I feel so bad for her. I hope she never reads his posts. 

EJ:  I will show her what you said when she wakes up

Sandy: I miss the old forum when people actually posted helpful information and posters didn’t hijack threads with their own personal bullshit. 

EJ: I didn;t start this thread.  I came here looking for helpful information just like you and ran across this toxic crap last July.  That's where I met Kicker and Lastman.  It's toxic, what did you think would happen Sandy?  I didn't hijack this thread either.  Oh Sandy, just ignore me and not worry about what I say.  The hate in PM is gnarly but I thrive off of it.


----------



## gotothebushes

Sandypk said:


> You know the best thing to do is to not engage with him.  It was a good honest try, but attention seekers need to be ignored.  We would all be better off if we just let him talk to himself.  He reminds me of a spoiled child.  Always needing attention and if things don’t go his way, he cries and blames others.  I hope we all put him back on ignore and continue to talk soccer in a way to help each other.
> 
> That’s what he loves anyway, hearing himself talk.  Oh and bragging about his dd the goat who isn’t getting a free ride or a YNT invite.  And also whining that his dd wasn’t good enough for some teams/coaches or not getting exceptions to rules or waivers like rich kids.  Almost forgot, life isn’t fair if you’re not white and rich.  Don’t forget all the times he was lied to and duped.  We can’t forget any of this because it’s been on repeat for 77 idiotic pages and on many hijacked threads.
> 
> ECNL vs DA Turf War thread...not really.  Just a little man whining and complaining about how life isn’t fair.
> Hate to break it to him, but life is not fair.  Life has a lot of ups and downs, but someone needs to tell him that we get up and keep working.  Blaming does no good.  Complaining does no good.  Spreading rumors and putting others down does no good.
> 
> Someone needs to tell him that if his dd is good enough, you wouldn’t need to complain so much about the club soccer world.  He wouldn’t need to ask for free handouts or beg to be treated like the greatest goat of all time (only his opinion)).
> 
> Real goats don’t get special treatment, they earn it.  Tell him to let his dd prove her own worth without daddy complaining all the time.  How embarrassing it must be for her to have her whole life documented on a forum to strangers.   I feel so bad for her.  I hope she never reads his posts.
> 
> BTW, everything you said to him was on everyone’s mind.  Thanks for trying to get him to focus on a topic or at least try to get him to make sense.  I appreciate the effort.
> 
> I miss the old forum when people actually posted helpful information and posters didn’t hijack threads with their own personal bullshit.
> 
> Stay healthy and safe everyone.


All time best post. I love it.


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> All time best post. I love it.


I love that you love that my 12 year old was treated horrible by pimps.  White one's too......


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Ellejustus said:


> I didnlt mean all sports.  I wanted to say, "You don;t seem to like hs sports that much."  You seem like me that we all need a break.  I'm going platinum soon so I will be able to crocrect my spelling.  My wife or dd come on here to correct my spelling when they can (That was a joke @Giesbock just so you know)  Again, ask me anytime if you think I'm pulling a fast one past you bro.  I strike out Kicker all the time but he has no idea.  He plays baseball where you dont ever strikeout.  JK kidding kicker, that was my alter ego kicking in.  I'm too damm competitive and rub folks the wrong way.


Wrong again.  I liked HS sports for two of my kids.  It's the third one that now plays in college that I felt it wasn't the best for.  She shares this feeling.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> You didn’t answer the question...how much time?  Quantify it...give me the number?
> Oh yeah, all of my grandmothers were raped too on my USA side of the family during slavery.  That’s part of the reason I have a relatively high percentage of European blood.


The time has passed, Dre.  It's time to be held accountable by one's actions TODAY rather than someone else's actions in 1840 or 1920.


----------



## Ellejustus

Come on all you haters.  Bring it today.  Weal takes if you speak and then hide in your cave.  "It's on" "It's going down...."  New American Soccer is coming to a city near you soon.  Look at all the fools coming out of their holes on April fools day.  This is classic and interesting to say the least.  I finally understand who the hell has been in charge of soccer all these years.  No wonder it's a complete disaster and the men suck at soccer too.  Truly I say unto you, your behavior as men has been appalling and you should be ashamed of yourselves.  Pathetic and the way these men treat the girls is crazy. Make them travel all over the damm country looking for soccer games that dad can watch and then go to the bar and drink and then come back with sip cups at the games.  Sickos!!!!! Listen to them chip at me.  "All time best post ever."  That was disgusting that you would agree with Sandy's take on my dd and how she was treated by dirt bag cheaters.


----------



## Ellejustus

Simisoccerfan said:


> Wrong again.  I liked HS sports for two of my kids.  It's the third one that now plays in college that I felt it wasn't the best for.  She shares this feeling.


My dd loves high school, high school sports and high school soccer so there ......lol.  Stay safe and drink a lot of water.  Were in for a long haul.


----------



## Ellejustus

Today's pimp has taken over the pimping world.


----------



## VegasParent

The Outlaw said:


> Did I post that?  I don't recall.  That said, I'm not bitching about the NBA being 75% black and I'm not bitching about the NFL being 65% black.  I think the best players should play regardless of skin color.  We probably should avoid "the content of their character" at this point.  What I'm bitching about is black people bitching there aren't enough black head coaches.  That's 30 jobs for fuck's sake.  And yes, there are more minorities looking for those jobs now, but most head coaches weren't traditionally in their 30's and 40's.  It's heading that way but most coaches were considerably older... like played in the 70's.  If it's fair to bitch about very few black coaches, it's fair to bitch there aren't enough Asians, Hispanics and whites in the NBA.  So do you see how ridiculous that is?  My guess is there's just a shortage of qualified coaches, period, because the same shitty coaches keep getting jobs, over and over again, and there must be a simple reason for that.
> 
> I read your article... too much to post in terms of thoughts and objections.  Frankly, it's a non issue if you aren't a criminal and don't get arrested.  I don't have much sympathy for people that keep going to jail... regardless of ethnicity.


Well one thing we agree on is that the same shitty coaches keep getting jobs, over and over again.


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> I love that you love that my 12 year old was treated horrible by pimps.  White one's too......


Again, your talking about a 12 year old soccer player? 12! Let that sink in for a moment. I'm guessing that was 4 years ago? Let that sink in as well. Do do fill bad for your daughters experience I truly do but there's a point when you have to look in the mirror and say " I need help". Game recocgnize game!!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

VegasParent said:


> Well one thing we agree on is that the same shitty coaches keep getting jobs, over and over again.


I appreciate your noting that.  So you don't think it's bullshit that black people are complaining about NFL coaching opportunities?  You don't think it's bullshit that LeBron James calls NFL owners "rich, white plantation owners"?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I love that you love that my 12 year old was treated horrible by pimps.  White one's too......


Who bought the sauce from these coaches... your 12-year old or you?


----------



## Ellejustus

Remember, today's topic is about, 1)  The unfair treatment of the WNT players from 30 years ago up to today.  2) The mistreatment of young female soccer goat athletes and how wrong their treated so they choose to go "full time" at a cost of parents at $15,000 a year (according to Hope Solo). Plus, how race is 100% an issue in soccer.  Nothing else on the docket today


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Who bought the sauce from these coaches... your 12-year old or you?


12 year old did.  She did the interviewing and asking the questions.  I sat with her and asked a few questions myself.  My dd is a smart cat Lester.  So if a coach, any coach for that matter messes with a 12 year old little girl, it's my fault as the dad?  Lester lives in 1950 everyone.


----------



## VegasParent

The Outlaw said:


> I appreciate your noting that.  So you don't think it's bullshit that black people are complaining about NFL coaching opportunities?  You don't think it's bullshit that LeBron James calls NFL owners "rich, white plantation owners"?


It's not just black people complaining about NFL coaching opportunities. It gets brought up by multiple ESPN talking heads so it's a topic that comes up every year to stir conversation. Is there validity to it? Yes, but not to the extent that it's made out to be. Black coaches are not going to complain publicly because they don't want to ruin their chance at getting one of those jobs one day. As for LeBron James, I don't know the context of why he said that but taking it on face value, I personally would not make that comment because NFL owners are paying their players millions of dollars. I don't believe plantation owners did that. But he is a very wealthy player who wants to be an NBA owner someday so we will see if he does things differently if he get that opportunity.


----------



## Ellejustus

How do pimps brainwash?
Once the exploitation begins on the parents, soccer *pimps* use a cycle of flattery and affection, mixed in with some verbal abuse and, to keep their victims in their clutches and to essentially *brainwash* them into thinking their kid is all that and even tell the goat the scouts are interested and watching her every move in soccer and in her personal life.  This is the best situation for the pimp, to keep them loyal so they won't go on the socal soccer forum spouting off their mouth about the brainwashing they experienced a few years ago.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> The time has passed, Dre.  It's time to be held accountable by one's actions TODAY rather than someone else's actions in 1840 or 1920.


I have a British grandmother.  The slaves and freedmen that were British Loyalist received reparations   My British family was granted this








						Windermere Island - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				



My American family has to deal with people like you.  So sad.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> The time has passed, Dre.  It's time to be held accountable by one's actions TODAY rather than someone else's actions in 1840 or 1920.


I have a British grandmother.  The slaves and freedmen that were British Loyalist received reparations   My British family was granted this








						Windermere Island - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				



My American family has to deal with people like you.  So sad.
I’m driving from TJ to Oakland today so I’ll be looking for you at the truck stops along the 5 Bocephus.

And no, I don’t have any bricks of cocaine in my trunk just soccer balls.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Remember, today's topic is about, 1)  The unfair treatment of the WNT players from 30 years ago up to today.  2) The mistreatment of young female soccer goat athletes and how wrong their treated so they choose to go "full time" at a cost of parents at $15,000 a year (according to Hope Solo). Plus, how race is 100% an issue in soccer.  Nothing else on the docket today


Race and gender are not an issue in soccer.  The market determines your worth.  That's why Alex Morgan and Alex Long don't make the same amount of money.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> 12 year old did.  She did the interviewing and asking the questions.  I sat with her and asked a few questions myself.  My dd is a smart cat Lester.  So if a coach, any coach for that matter messes with a 12 year old little girl, it's my fault as the dad?  Lester lives in 1950 everyone.


Yes, Spicoli, it's your fault.  Nobody interviews a 6th grader.  You failed her as a father and protector from those wicked soccer coaches.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

VegasParent said:


> It's not just black people complaining about NFL coaching opportunities. It gets brought up by multiple ESPN talking heads so it's a topic that comes up every year to stir conversation. Is there validity to it? Yes, but not to the extent that it's made out to be. Black coaches are not going to complain publicly because they don't want to ruin their chance at getting one of those jobs one day. As for LeBron James, I don't know the context of why he said that but taking it on face value, I personally would not make that comment because NFL owners are paying their players millions of dollars. I don't believe plantation owners did that. But he is a very wealthy player who wants to be an NBA owner someday so we will see if he does things differently if he get that opportunity.


Multiple ESPN talking heads... like Stephen A?  Why do you think ESPN's ratings have plummeted and massive layoffs incurred?  It doesn't stir conversation... it stirs controversy, because it's "racist" to have conversation.  It's bullshit and millions of former ESPN fans realized it and changed the channel.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> I have a British grandmother.  The slaves and freedmen that were British Loyalist received reparations   My British family was granted this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Windermere Island - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My American family has to deal with people like you.  So sad.


It's lovely you appreciate history.  I wasn't a slave owner and you weren't a slave.  No reparations for you, big guy.  Tijuana to Oakland?  Exchanging shithole for a shithole.  Drive safely.


----------



## Ellejustus

I think he lost his starting spot in high school to a faster, stronger, bigger, taller and hungrier black athlete.  He felt cheated and is getting it all out. He went straight to the books after getting beat out and decided to go out and work in white color jobs.  He sits in his perch today and chirps and argues nonsense from the law of two only and reminds me of some white dude in 1960. Lester is blind like a fool.  I told you about my best friend Bruno right?  Here is some white privilege from my experience as a white dude Lester.  Bruno btw is doing great as a principle.

The Tale of the tape                    Candidate #1             Candidate #2

1. Graduated HS                            Yes                               No
2. College degree                          Yes                               No
3. Manager at Kinkos                    Yes                               No
4. Never did drugs                        Never                          Always
5. Respectful to adults                  Always                         Prideful
6. Sparkletts sales results             Same                            Same
7. Interview for yellow pages         Yes                              Yes
8. YP job with same
white sales manager in the            Yes                              Yes
South Bay Directory
9.  Got hired                                  No                                Yes

Lester, guess which candidate was white and guess which one was black?


----------



## Dubs

EOTL said:


> [d
> 
> 
> Right off the bat, USSF essentially told ECNL “Thanks for doing all the heavy lifting, we’re just going to take your business now.”  Of course ECNL hates USSF.
> 
> If USSF had done exactly what ECNL had done but slapped the US Soccer label on it, ECNL would be dead by now. Instead, USSF is full of morons who failed to appreciate that all the things it tried to do differently were things ECNL had already found to be financially unsustainable.  ECNL had already tried to discourage HS only to learn that, for every @simisoccrfan who detests HS soccer, it would lose 100 paying customers by banning it. ECNL learned how much travel (and costs) would be acceptable to its customers. ECNL understood there is no one size fits all way of running a national soccer league, and perfected its platform to account for regional differences, including different HS seasons, weather, spring breaks, financial demographics, etc. ECNL knew the main value proposition for its business is to open college doors that would otherwise be closed.
> 
> USSF thought the parents of every elite female soccer player in the country must love soccer so much that they’re willing to pay any amount of money, make their kids miss any amount of school and give up everything else in life just so their kid can wear a USSF patch and live a fantasy that someday they might play on the national team. USSF saw a vision of a world in which women make a fortune to skip college and play pro, although that makes no financial sense.
> 
> ECNL is run by experienced businesspeople making solid business decisions based on reality. GDA is run by soccer morons who are making decisions based on a fantasy of how they want the world to be, instead of how it actually is.


You are correct!  At the very beginning ECNL consistently reached out to USSF in order to create a joint league or at least collaborate on something....anything!  Instead, USSF (Heinrichs and crew) gave ECNL the finger and made the power play in an effort to take over the club landscape.  As a result, almost all the families I know that went the DA route regret it, but what can you do.  These things have to take their natural course and play out... fortunately or unfortunately they are playing out how I and many others suspected they would because of the sheer arrogance of USSF.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I think he lost his starting spot in high school to a faster, stronger, bigger, taller and hungrier black athlete.  He felt cheated and is getting it all out. He went straight to the books after getting beat out and decided to go out and work in white color jobs.  He sits in his perch today and chirps and argues nonsense from the law of two only and reminds me of some white dude in 1960. Lester is blind like a fool.  I told you about my best friend Bruno right?  Here is some white privilege from my experience as a white dude Lester.  Bruno btw is doing great as a principle.
> 
> The Tale of the tape                    Candidate #1             Candidate #2
> 
> 1. Graduated HS                            Yes                               No
> 2. College degree                          Yes                               No
> 3. Manager at Kinkos                    Yes                               No
> 4. Never did drugs                        Never                          Always
> 5. Respectful to adults                  Always                         Prideful
> 6. Sparkletts sales results             Same                            Same
> 7. Interview for yellow pages         Yes                              Yes
> 8. YP job with same
> white sales manager in the            Yes                              Yes
> South Bay Directory
> 9.  Got hired                                  No                                Yes
> 
> Lester, guess which candidate was white and guess which one was black?


What is a white color job, Spicoli?  Do you mean "collar"?  Do you mean "principal" or principle?  Any chance you can have that 12-year old proof your shit before hitting "post reply"?  I sometimes forget you can't spell because you were born deaf.


----------



## Ellejustus

Dubs said:


> You are correct!  At the very beginning ECNL consistently reached out to USSF in order to create a joint league or at least collaborate on something....anything!  Instead, USSF (Heinrichs and crew) gave ECNL the finger and made the power play in an effort to take over the club landscape.  As a result, almost all the families I know that went the DA route regret it, but what can you do.  These things have to take their natural course and play out... fortunately or unfortunately they are playing out how I and many others suspected they would because of the sheer arrogance of USSF.


Well, they told my dd to f off too Dubs and my family 100% regrets it.  Boy, that middle finger they gave to my dd is a hard one for me Dubs.  Then the same dope heads hire or Lastman & Kicker voulunteer their time to the promotion of the G D A and the attack on silly old EJ.  They do all their dirty work for them.  The arrogance of USSF and those men is what has me tripping. One big regret I say and I want all my money back too and one big sorry from The Master Pimp himself.....


----------



## Ellejustus

@Technician72 brother, I see you have some reading to do to catch up.  I swear to God this is only for all the females.  My kid got her 6 month free ride and as EOTL put it, I should be grateful and I'm still not.  But I see his point.


----------



## VegasParent

The Outlaw said:


> Multiple ESPN talking heads... like Stephen A?  Why do you think ESPN's ratings have plummeted and massive layoffs incurred?  It doesn't stir conversation... it stirs controversy, because it's "racist" to have conversation.  It's bullshit and millions of former ESPN fans realized it and changed the channel.


Stephen A is not the only one. Golic, Greenberg, Le Batard and others also. Plus I hear the local Las Vegas ESPN radio guys talk about it and they're white guys. But again, you are so quick to only point out the black person that says something. It shows what your true problem is.


----------



## Ellejustus

@Giesbock 
*Girls' Development Academy FAQ's*
The Girls' Development Academy is part of U.S. Soccer's global leadership position in women's soccer and connects with its mission to develop world-class players, coaches and referees. The objective of the Academy is to impact the everyday club environment (cause a toxic war between two leagues and their parents) to develop world-class players.

*PROGRAM FAQ's
What is the Development Academy?*
U.S. Soccer started the Development Academy Program to improve long-term player and coach development. After studying player development models domestically and internationally, U.S. Soccer collaborated (Horrible use of a word) with elite soccer clubs across the nation to create a program to provide the proper environment (oh really) by emphasizing quality training and limited meaningful competition (Meaningful to a small select few)
*Why did U.S. Soccer create a Girls' Development Academy? *(great question)

U.S. Soccer wanted to provide a player centered program that is focused on the development of the individual *without bias*, distractions, self-interests and financial gains that compromise the optimal everyday environment. This is needed to continue to set the standard for world-class players.

*When will the Girls' Development Academy begin and what are the season dates?*

The first year of competition for the Academy Program will begin in the fall of 2017. The season begins in September and will end in July.

*What are some of the benefits of playing in the Girls' Development Academy?*
The Academy's elite training environment promotes increased technical standards and allows for greater accountability for players and coaches. Coaches can devote more time to these areas in training. Both players and coaches must learn to deal with and manage the challenges of playing in games using international rules, which is what players will experience at the highest levels. (only for top top .1% of us)

*How does playing in the Girls' Development Academy help a player accelerate their development?*

By participating in the Academy, a player will have substantially more hours on the training field focused on refining technique and tactical understanding. With a minimum of four training sessions per week (BS), there is significant opportunity to work on technique and receive instruction from coaches and U.S. Soccer Technical Advisors as part of a continuous seasonal plan for the players' development.

*APPLICATION FAQ's
What clubs can apply to be part of the Girls' Development Academy? Do clubs have to have both a boys and girls program?*

Any club that believes it can meet the standards set by U.S. Soccer is welcome to apply to be part of the Academy. (My family failed to meet the standards)
*How many clubs are selected to be part of the Girls' Development Academy?*

The exact number is based on player pool, market analysis, geography, and quality of the club applicant pool. ( and if they obey us and go all in and say no to ECNL)

*When is the application available and when is the deadline to apply?*
The application for the 2018-2019 Development Academy season will open in the Fall of 2017. The application can be found here once available.


*What criteria is be used to select clubs that will be part of the Girls' Development Academy?*

The Academy uses the following criteria when evaluating the application of each club for membership:


Leadership of the club and quality of the coaching staff
Desire to embrace and promote the core values of the program
U.S. Soccer license levels of coaching staff
Infrastructure of the club and the resources currently being invested in development (facilities, scholarships, staff to player ratio, etc.)
History of player production for youth National Teams, the Women's National Team, and professional leagues
Market with player depth, geographic location, proximity to other elite clubs and travel implications
*Who will be evaluating club applications? *(Who?)

U.S. Soccer's Women's Youth National Team technical staff and Development Academy staff will review applications and accept clubs that meet the Girls' Development Academy criteria.

*How does someone join (or tryout for) an Academy club?*
*The expectation is that Academy clubs move to using a more systematic scouting model to identify and recruit new talents and invite these players to trial for an extended period with the current player pool*. (Hello, that's why I got the phone calls to go visit all the GDA clubs and with their Docs.  This was a new way of recruiting the goats).

*How much are Academy clubs required to travel?*

Academy clubs can expect approximately 15 away games in a given season, some of which will require overnight travel. Exact travel distances will vary between clubs depending on their geographic proximity to their conference opponents and Academy events.(which was not really expalined until we all drank the kool aid)

*What does the Academy Program Cost for players and clubs?*

U.S. Soccer covers many of the costs for clubs so they can reinvest these funds into their players. There are no referee fees for league games, showcases or playoffs. Clubs are not charged any event or showcase fees to attend. In addition, Clubs are provided with Nike Balls for training and games and receive POWERADE coolers and beverages among other corporate partner benefits.
*The Academy strongly believes that no player should face a (financial) barrier to play soccer.* Therefore, clubs are encouraged to subsidize costs for players in financial need. In addition, U.S. Soccer offers a scholarship program, open to any full-time Academy player, to assist players with covering Academy travel cost. For more information, visit the scholarship program page.

*What costs can a player or club expect? (*The cost to play is $1k for the parents and the dd has to go "full time" and give HS Soccer and her social life so she can be in the G D A League.)
Clubs will only pay a flat registration fee for players and coaches. Clubs are responsible for all team travel expenses to their league games and events.

*Are the rules and regulations exactly the same as the Boys' Development Academy?* (There lies a big issue)

The Academy program has been developed over time to create the ideal everyday environment for player development. The Academy has continually grown and adapted over its 10 years of existence and will use key learnings and best practices for the Girls' Program. The vast majority of the current Academy rules and regulations will be the same. The Girls' Development Academy staff will create or modify any rules or regulations as deemed necessary.



_For general questions, please contact the U.S. Soccer Development Academy Staff at girlsacademy@ussoccer.org._


----------



## Ellejustus

@Giesbock continued....
*CHANGE A LIFE & BUILD THE FUTURE: THE DEVELOPMENT ACADEMY SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM*
Great talent comes from all areas and backgrounds. Since 2008, the U.S. Soccer Scholarship Program has contributed nearly $4.2 million in need-based financial aid to 3,000 of our nation's most talented young players.

Last year, with the support of donors like you, U.S. Soccer doubled the amount of scholarship available for boys and girls in the Development Academy.

*We need your help to continue breaking down economic barriers to making the highest level of domestic youth soccer affordable for all players and families. *

The average scholarship award to a player to help cover high travel costs during the 10-month Academy season is $1,469. The typical scholarship recipient lives within 5% of the Federal Poverty Line, travels more than 25 miles each way to train and receives free or reduced-cost lunches.

Will you help support a young player with a dream to play soccer? *You can change a life, help build a sport and inspire a nation.*


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

VegasParent said:


> Stephen A is not the only one. Golic, Greenberg, Le Batard and others also. Plus I hear the local Las Vegas ESPN radio guys talk about it and they're white guys. But again, you are so quick to only point out the black person that says something. It shows what your true problem is.


Yeah, I get the fake rage because political correctness is cool right now.  The fact remains... when you're 13% of the population, and you possess 65% of the player jobs, bitching about not having more of the 30 coaching jobs available is bullshit.  I just have the balls to say it, Vegas.


----------



## VegasParent

Ellejustus said:


> @Giesbock
> *Girls' Development Academy FAQ's*
> The Girls' Development Academy is part of U.S. Soccer's global leadership position in women's soccer and connects with its mission to develop world-class players, coaches and referees. The objective of the Academy is to impact the everyday club environment (cause a toxic war between two leagues and their parents) to develop world-class players.
> 
> *PROGRAM FAQ's
> What is the Development Academy?*
> U.S. Soccer started the Development Academy Program to improve long-term player and coach development. After studying player development models domestically and internationally, U.S. Soccer collaborated (Horrible use of a word) with elite soccer clubs across the nation to create a program to provide the proper environment (oh really) by emphasizing quality training and limited meaningful competition (Meaningful to a small select few)
> *Why did U.S. Soccer create a Girls' Development Academy? *(great question)
> 
> U.S. Soccer wanted to provide a player centered program that is focused on the development of the individual *without bias*, distractions, self-interests and financial gains that compromise the optimal everyday environment. This is needed to continue to set the standard for world-class players.
> 
> *When will the Girls' Development Academy begin and what are the season dates?*
> 
> The first year of competition for the Academy Program will begin in the fall of 2017. The season begins in September and will end in July.
> 
> *What are some of the benefits of playing in the Girls' Development Academy?*
> The Academy's elite training environment promotes increased technical standards and allows for greater accountability for players and coaches. Coaches can devote more time to these areas in training. Both players and coaches must learn to deal with and manage the challenges of playing in games using international rules, which is what players will experience at the highest levels. (only for top top .1% of us)
> 
> *How does playing in the Girls' Development Academy help a player accelerate their development?*
> 
> By participating in the Academy, a player will have substantially more hours on the training field focused on refining technique and tactical understanding. With a minimum of four training sessions per week (BS), there is significant opportunity to work on technique and receive instruction from coaches and U.S. Soccer Technical Advisors as part of a continuous seasonal plan for the players' development.
> 
> *APPLICATION FAQ's
> What clubs can apply to be part of the Girls' Development Academy? Do clubs have to have both a boys and girls program?*
> 
> Any club that believes it can meet the standards set by U.S. Soccer is welcome to apply to be part of the Academy. (My family failed to meet the standards)
> *How many clubs are selected to be part of the Girls' Development Academy?*
> 
> The exact number is based on player pool, market analysis, geography, and quality of the club applicant pool. ( and if they obey us and go all in and say no to ECNL)
> 
> *When is the application available and when is the deadline to apply?*
> The application for the 2018-2019 Development Academy season will open in the Fall of 2017. The application can be found here once available.
> 
> 
> *What criteria is be used to select clubs that will be part of the Girls' Development Academy?*
> 
> The Academy uses the following criteria when evaluating the application of each club for membership:
> 
> 
> Leadership of the club and quality of the coaching staff
> Desire to embrace and promote the core values of the program
> U.S. Soccer license levels of coaching staff
> Infrastructure of the club and the resources currently being invested in development (facilities, scholarships, staff to player ratio, etc.)
> History of player production for youth National Teams, the Women's National Team, and professional leagues
> Market with player depth, geographic location, proximity to other elite clubs and travel implications
> *Who will be evaluating club applications? *(Who?)
> 
> U.S. Soccer's Women's Youth National Team technical staff and Development Academy staff will review applications and accept clubs that meet the Girls' Development Academy criteria.
> 
> *How does someone join (or tryout for) an Academy club?*
> *The expectation is that Academy clubs move to using a more systematic scouting model to identify and recruit new talents and invite these players to trial for an extended period with the current player pool*. (Hello, that's why I got the phone calls to go visit all the GDA clubs and with their Docs.  This was a new way of recruiting the goats).
> 
> *How much are Academy clubs required to travel?*
> 
> Academy clubs can expect approximately 15 away games in a given season, some of which will require overnight travel. Exact travel distances will vary between clubs depending on their geographic proximity to their conference opponents and Academy events.(which was not really expalined until we all drank the kool aid)
> 
> *What does the Academy Program Cost for players and clubs?*
> 
> U.S. Soccer covers many of the costs for clubs so they can reinvest these funds into their players. There are no referee fees for league games, showcases or playoffs. Clubs are not charged any event or showcase fees to attend. In addition, Clubs are provided with Nike Balls for training and games and receive POWERADE coolers and beverages among other corporate partner benefits.
> *The Academy strongly believes that no player should face a (financial) barrier to play soccer.* Therefore, clubs are encouraged to subsidize costs for players in financial need. In addition, U.S. Soccer offers a scholarship program, open to any full-time Academy player, to assist players with covering Academy travel cost. For more information, visit the scholarship program page.
> 
> *What costs can a player or club expect? (*The cost to play is $1k for the parents and the dd has to go "full time" and give HS Soccer and her social life so she can be in the G D A League.)
> Clubs will only pay a flat registration fee for players and coaches. Clubs are responsible for all team travel expenses to their league games and events.
> 
> *Are the rules and regulations exactly the same as the Boys' Development Academy?* (There lies a big issue)
> 
> The Academy program has been developed over time to create the ideal everyday environment for player development. The Academy has continually grown and adapted over its 10 years of existence and will use key learnings and best practices for the Girls' Program. The vast majority of the current Academy rules and regulations will be the same. The Girls' Development Academy staff will create or modify any rules or regulations as deemed necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> _For general questions, please contact the U.S. Soccer Development Academy Staff at girlsacademy@ussoccer.org._


Time to get away from the race stuff and back on topic somewhat. To give a non SoCal perspective on DA, it's been great for my DD. She plays for Albion LV 06 and before this season (2019-2020) it was hard to find good competitive game outside of a few tournaments. Her team played in and finished first in the Desert  Conference of the Far West Regional League the previous 2 seasons going 15-1-2. Locally there was no competition. The ECNL 06 team played up in league and tournaments 2 years ago to avoid playing us and even got the state office to allow them to play up in State Cup and not let their results count. The one time we played them that season we beat them 4-0. Last year they only entered 2 local tournaments, Vegas Cup and Players Showcase. Those tournaments are large enough that the only way we would possible meet would be in the semis or finals but they never made it out of their brackets. We also won the last 2 state cups and made it to the semis in regionals falling to La Galaxy the first year and Albion San Diego last year. We are middle of the pack in DA and for my kid, its been great playing top competition week in and week out. She loves the team travel with her team. It has been cheaper compared to last year player in the Desert Conference because we didn't do team travel. Plus we play in a lot of out of state tournaments trying find some competitive games. The one change I would like to see be made is the sub rules. If they do that, they can get rid of the 25% rule also.


----------



## Soccerfan2

Am I the only one who likes the DA sub rule? Don’t mind the 25% start rule either.


----------



## Ellejustus

VegasParent said:


> Time to get away from the race stuff and back on topic somewhat. To give a non SoCal perspective on DA, it's been great for my DD. She plays for Albion LV 06 and before this season (2019-2020) it was hard to find good competitive game outside of a few tournaments. Her team played in and finished first in the Desert  Conference of the Far West Regional League the previous 2 seasons going 15-1-2. Locally there was no competition. The ECNL 06 team played up in league and tournaments 2 years ago to avoid playing us and even got the state office to allow them to play up in State Cup and not let their results count. The one time we played them that season we beat them 4-0. Last year they only entered 2 local tournaments, Vegas Cup and Players Showcase. Those tournaments are large enough that the only way we would possible meet would be in the semis or finals but they never made it out of their brackets. We also won the last 2 state cups and made it to the semis in regionals falling to La Galaxy the first year and Albion San Diego last year. We are middle of the pack in DA and for my kid, its been great playing top competition week in and week out. She loves the team travel with her team. It has been cheaper compared to last year player in the Desert Conference because we didn't do team travel. Plus we play in a lot of out of state tournaments trying find some competitive games. The one change I would like to see be made is the sub rules. If they do that, they can get rid of the 25% rule also.


Word on the street is your dd can ball.  I think Vegas should have two teams and one league, so when we come out, we can have back to back Vegas games.  I love going to Vegas.  My dd loved flying to Seattle back in 2017 and winning the Far West Regionals.  After that, she loved flying to Texas to win the Naty.  today at 16, she has a different take on all the travel and so do I.


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccerfan2 said:


> Am I the only one who likes the DA sub rule? Don’t mind the 25% start rule either.


Yes, but that is ok.  I would love that rule to if it helped my dd get in the game.  Listen, I've been harsh on some but I completely understand it.  I know many parents who are depressed because of some of the lies these coaches spew.  25% starts if your not sure where your goat is, is a damm good deal and I would sign up if I had $15K to spend each year and not have it hurt my bottomline.


----------



## VegasParent

Soccerfan2 said:


> Am I the only one who likes the DA sub rule? Don’t mind the 25% start rule either.


I actually don't mind it but I can see why some are against it. I like the ECNL rule but I would keep the DA rule that you only have three moments plus halftime to sub. Keeps teams from subbing every dead ball to waste time.


----------



## VegasParent

Ellejustus said:


> Word on the street is your dd can ball.  I think Vegas should have two teams and one league, so when we come out, we can have back to back Vegas games.  I love going to Vegas.  My dd loved flying to Seattle back in 2017 and winning the Far West Regionals.  After that, she loved flying to Texas to win the Naty.  today at 16, she has a different take on all the travel and so do I.


I agree. Regardless of league, it would be good if Vegas had two teams and two games each weekend. Being military brats, my kids love to travel since they did it a lot when they were younger. Vegas is the longest they have ever lived in once place because I retired here.


----------



## vegasguy

LAVER S ARTICLE https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/trust-and-freedom-help-ecnl-grow_aid47884


----------



## Ellejustus

VegasParent said:


> I agree. Regardless of league, it would be good if Vegas had two teams and two games each weekend. Being military brats, my kids love to travel since they did it a lot when they were younger. Vegas is the longest they have ever lived in once place because I retired here.


Thank you for your service to our find country sir.  I want to come visist asap.  My buddy has a house he goes to in the winter


----------



## Ellejustus

vegasguy said:


> LAVER S ARTICLE https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/trust-and-freedom-help-ecnl-grow_aid47884


Lavers is in a nice position biz wise.  He weathered the attack and stayed true to his Mission and is looking strong right now.  ECNL stock looks good.  Can GDA make one last attempt to make it?


----------



## Ellejustus

@Sandypk I finally signed for Top Drawer Goat.  How does one get their dd on the list of top 150?  Do she start like at #1000 04 player in the country and then she has to earn the top 150 based on future success or can I go back to when she was 8 and scored 3 goals against @Sparky9 old team in like 10 minutes to save the tie at State Cup?  That game was played in the snow.  I will go look for that pic. 

@Sandypk  Crossfire Premier sounds like they take care of the goats that are full time. Good for them.  I wonder if all them parents are begging for a handout Sandy?  BTW, when my dd got her one start with coach Rogers in the Surf Cup finals in 2018, we played the Crossfier Premier 03 team in finals.  I do have that video but I won;t show it because I would be promoting my minor on the forum. She scored the first goal of the game.  It was awesome  

In the spring of 2019, *Crossfire Premier,* one of the best youth clubs in the country with many professionals and national team players developing at the club over the past few decades, announced that it would be leaving the Girls Development Academy to rejoin the ECNL. 

“Looking at it from a national perspective, any league that can bring together the top programs in the country is going to provide fantastic competition for our teams,” Crossfire Premier coach Justi Baumgardt (who coached in both the ECNL and Girls DA) told TopDrawerSoccer about the decision for Crossfire Premier to join ECNL. “And we are genuinely seeking the best competition we can find — we’ve even sent all of our girls’ teams to Europe in the past year and have had Crossfire teams play FC Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, Madrid CFF, Manchester City, Paris Saint-Germain and more, along with competing against the best teams across the country here in the States.”

“Our club fully-funds our oldest two girls’ teams (U-17 and U-19) — that was the case in the DA and continues in the ECNL — so there are high expectations, both on the players and on us coaches,” Baumgardt said. “We also fund all ECNL travel for the other four teams (U-13 through U-16). And the more we can play clubs with the quality of a Real Colorado, a Slammers, etc., the better it is for what we’re trying do, and that’s to develop high-level soccer players who can go on to college soccer, to youth national teams, and perform against the best players in the country and world. Whether as a coach or as a player, you want to play against the best competition you can find, as often as possible.”
The competition in the ECNL is certainly a big appeal, but Baumgardt also referenced something that is rarely discussed when debating between the two leagues of the girls club soccer world. 

“Looking at it from my level, on the field with the teams, I think the ECNL offers a significant benefit that I don’t see talked about very often, and that’s in the league’s substitution rules. We’re trying to develop players here — I mean that’s our primary mission as youth coaches, regardless of where we coach — and I don’t know how you develop someone if she's sitting on the bench 85% of the time,” Baumgardt said. “To not be allowed reentry was really hard on our players, particularly when you’re not playing that many games to begin with, like 25-28 games in a 10-month season, so you don’t have a huge reason to rotate. So you look at it after 8-10 games and see that the top 12-14 players are getting a lot of match time, but the players further down the depth chart are finding it really tough to get consistent game minutes.”

“In the ECNL, we have a lot more flexibility to manage our rosters,” Baumgardt continued. “Players can’t go off and on again in the same half, so we are keeping the integrity of the competition, but they trust us coaches to be able to manage our teams appropriately.”


----------



## EOTL

Soccerfan2 said:


> Am I the only one who likes the DA sub rule? Don’t mind the 25% start rule either.


You and @Simisoccerfan are the only ones. I hope your daughter doesn’t tear her ACL in the last 5 minutes of either half.


----------



## gotothebushes

EOTL said:


> You and @Simisoccerfan are the only ones. I hope your daughter doesn’t tear her ACL in the last 5 minutes of either half.


@EOTL I hope that didn't happen to your dd. Injuries are tough in both leagues though. We have a couple of players tear there ACL in there second last game in HS. In any case those injuries could have happened in ECNL , HS or DA. I do hear you tend to see you injures in HS? Is there any true to that? I personally this the percentage in any league would be about the same.


----------



## Giesbock

Ellejustus said:


> @Giesbock continued....
> *CHANGE A LIFE & BUILD THE FUTURE: THE DEVELOPMENT ACADEMY SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM*
> Great talent comes from all areas and backgrounds. Since 2008, the U.S. Soccer Scholarship Program has contributed nearly $4.2 million in need-based financial aid to 3,000 of our nation's most talented young players.
> 
> Last year, with the support of donors like you, U.S. Soccer doubled the amount of scholarship available for boys and girls in the Development Academy.
> 
> *We need your help to continue breaking down economic barriers to making the highest level of domestic youth soccer affordable for all players and families. *
> 
> The average scholarship award to a player to help cover high travel costs during the 10-month Academy season is $1,469. The typical scholarship recipient lives within 5% of the Federal Poverty Line, travels more than 25 miles each way to train and receives free or reduced-cost lunches.
> 
> Will you help support a young player with a dream to play soccer? *You can change a life, help build a sport and inspire a nation.*


Thanks. Really excellent information.  Also, gotta say that I appreciate you putting your commentary in parentheses (is that plural for one parenthesis???). Or since they come in pairs, is a pair of these things (( singular??

anyway, good stuff.

Based on this family’s relatively brief exposure to club soccer and now DA, it comes down to the coaches, proximity to home, player’s internal motivation and guess you’d want to throw in natural athleticism.  So far, knock on wood, the politics, bad stuff, weird toxic talk has not been our experience.

Pay to get top tier coaches and facility? Yeah, of course...that’s sports here in today’s USA. (actually now, it’s all virtual except the homework the athlete does at home with no one watching).

There’s a great ad featuring Michael Phelps from a few years ago..”the work you do in the dark brings you into the light..” or something like that.

I know there was back and forth talk about juggling.  It’s not the juggling in and of itself, but that skill leads to deftness of touch and a player’s ability to riff with the ball at game speed. International stars that struggle with juggling are the rare exception.  My daughter drops 1200 or so, time permitting.  Mix with headers, chest, thighs, back to both feet, etc. For a proud dad, that’s fun to watch whether it translates to potential goat ness or not!


----------



## EOTL

gotothebushes said:


> @EOTL I hope that didn't happen to your dd. Injuries are tough in both leagues though. We have a couple of players tear there ACL in there second last game in HS. In any case those injuries could have happened in ECNL , HS or DA. I do hear you tend to see you injures in HS? Is there any true to that? I personally this the percentage in any league would be about the same.


A girl is at risk any time she steps into the field, but she is most at risk in the last five minutes of each half unless she has been able to rest. It is irresponsible to impose a rule that forces 14 teenage girls in every game to face that maximum risk. That is not a risk present in HS or ECNL, which allow coaches to do what is best for their players, instead of what USSF thinks is best for USSF.


----------



## Copa9

The Outlaw said:


> Yeah, I get the fake rage because political correctness is cool right now.  The fact remains... when you're 13% of the population, and you possess 65% of the player jobs, bitching about not having more of the 30 coaching jobs available is bullshit.  I just have the balls to say it, Vegas.


I have said this before, apologies for repeating myself, just because you can play the sport does NOT mean you know how to coach the sport. You may love the sport, be knowledgeable about the skills, tactics, etc. etc. etc., maybe even be a good trainer one on one or small group,  but that does not mean you possess the ability to communicate, encourage, manage, your knowledge for the benefit of a team!  That goes for any sport!


----------



## jellybelly71

EOTL said:


> A girl is at risk any time she steps into the field, but she is most at risk in the last five minutes of each half unless she has been able to rest. It is irresponsible to impose a rule that forces 14 teenage girls in every game to face that maximum risk. That is not a risk present in HS or ECNL, which allow coaches to do what is best for their players, instead of what USSF thinks is best for USSF.


You have posted numerous times referencing ACL risk as it pertains to DA vs ECNL vs HS vs other. You have also posted your sources on occasion (I've read them all.) No doubt, female athlete ACL injury rates are alarming and we should do everything possible to reduce those rates. Unfortunately, you have consistently drawn false conclusions from the sources you've listed, many of which were poorly designed or small case studies from which no conclusions can be drawn. Having said that, I'd like to see your source in reference to your claim about the increased rate of ACL injury in the final 5 minutes of each half. Please post it. Cheers to you in advance if your data are solid and actionable. Needless to say, I am dubious. Regardless, extrapolating any such data to DA v ECNL v HS is ludicrous unless ECNL and HS coaches are resting every player every half (which, of course, they are not.)

Neil deGrasse (smart dude): "It is okay _to_ not _know_. But when _you_ don't _know_, yet _think you know_, and wield power in that ignorance, it's a recipe for disaster."


----------



## sdb

EOTL said:


> A girl is at risk any time she steps into the field, but she is most at risk in the last five minutes of each half unless she has been able to rest.


This is factually correct. There is data from many sources that shows that the risk of injury increases significantly at the end of each half. Substitution rules that limit subbing and prevent coaches from getting players off the field at the end of the half ultimately increase the likelihood of players getting hurt. There's really no reason to treat youth players like professional players.


----------



## sdb

sdb said:


> This is factually correct. There is data from many sources that shows that the risk of injury increases significantly at the end of each half. Substitution rules that limit subbing and prevent coaches from getting players off the field at the end of the half ultimately increase the likelihood of players getting hurt. There's really no reason to treat youth players like professional players.


Here are 2 studies, I can pull a few more.


----------



## Soccerfan2

sdb said:


> Here are 2 studies, I can pull a few more.
> 
> View attachment 6759
> 
> View attachment 6758


Earlier you said “There is data from many sources that shows that the risk of injury increases significantly at the end of each half.”

But the study you posted is not specific to ACL injury, which was the original topic. Also, the study summary specifically says “the first and last 15 minutes of the game had the highest number of actions with high injury potential, although not significant.”

This study is about injury risk (not actual injuries), it is generalized, and it does not find any statistically significant support whatsoever for the point that was made earlier.


----------



## sdb

As I mentioned, these 2 are not ACL specific. The 2nd abstract talks about injury incidence being greater at the end of the halves. The first mentions incidence highest at the end of the game.  I can source about 10-15 additional studies that all show the same thing: that injury incidence was shown to increase towards the end of the first half and towards the end of the 2nd half (as well as at the start). That’s how they make the conclusions about risk. I think it’s fairly obvious that fatigue contributes to injury. Arbitrary sub rules that prevent or discourage coaches from subbing players off to get rest at the end of the half are increasing injury risk.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> A girl is at risk any time she steps into the field, but she is most at risk in the last five minutes of each half unless she has been able to rest. It is irresponsible to impose a rule that forces 14 teenage girls in every game to face that maximum risk. That is not a risk present in HS or ECNL, which allow coaches to do what is best for their players, instead of what USSF thinks is best for USSF.


I know some Docs who promised 11, 12 & 13 year old girls 90 minutes a game, plus start every game, never come out, like ever, plus this and plus that.  Some of these GDA parents would lose their marbles if you tried to take their kid out early.  I'm glad I stood up for the American way and never asked for this or that.  I swear on the good book I never begged for a handout. I swear EOTL.  They came to us like Coach K and told us we were the first of many many scholarships.  I took the full ride.  I'm guilty as charged, but I never begged, never, not once.  I just wanted my dd to get up to bat and let me to you, she hit a grand slam.


----------



## Emma

sdb said:


> As I mentioned, these 2 are not ACL specific. The 2nd abstract talks about injury incidence being greater at the end of the halves. The first mentions incidence highest at the end of the game.  I can source about 10-15 additional studies that all show the same thing: that injury incidence was shown to increase towards the end of the first half and towards the end of the 2nd half (as well as at the start). That’s how they make the conclusions about risk. I think it’s fairly obvious that fatigue contributes to injury. Arbitrary sub rules that prevent or discourage coaches from subbing players off to get rest at the end of the half are increasing injury risk.


There is one consistency, there is more action in the last 15 minutes of most games unless they are blowouts without any chance of coming back.  Teams play harder/faster in the last 15 minutes to hold a game or try to win a game.  The correlation may be due to that rather than physical fatigue causing injury.


----------



## sdb

Probably not a surprise, but I’m happy when my daughter gets subbed off at 30 mins in the first half. I prefer that she limit her minutes and hopefully stays healthy. No one game matters in the long run, but tendons and bones do.


----------



## sdb

Emma said:


> There is one consistency, there is more action in the last 15 minutes of most games unless they are blowouts without any chance of coming back.  Teams play harder/faster in the last 15 minutes to hold a game or try to win a game.  The correlation may be due to that rather than physical fatigue causing injury.


Yes agree but that increase in effort coincides with an increase in fatigue from the energy expended over the duration of the game.


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccerfan2 said:


> Earlier you said “There is data from many sources that shows that the risk of injury increases significantly at the end of each half.”
> 
> But the study you posted is not specific to ACL injury, which was the original topic. Also, the study summary specifically says “the first and last 15 minutes of the game had the highest number of actions with high injury potential, although not significant.”
> 
> This study is about injury risk (not actual injuries), it is generalized, and it does not find any statistically significant support whatsoever for the point that was made earlier.


I watched all the over use soccer fan.  Way too much on these poor girls. Travel 5 hours on a plan and then play 3 90 minute games and then fly back is too much.  In the heat too playing at Norco  in 104.  And we all thought the flu hurt people......  My dd got lucky and sat out most of last year.  I did watch and I saw lot's of ACL injuries, concussions, burn out and quit soccer forever and so on.  This was all to be a "full timer" just like the pros.


----------



## sdb

Emma said:


> There is one consistency, there is more action in the last 15 minutes of most games unless they are blowouts without any chance of coming back.  Teams play harder/faster in the last 15 minutes to hold a game or try to win a game.  The correlation may be due to that rather than physical fatigue causing injury.


Yes agree but that increase in effort coincides with an increase in fatigue from the energy expended over the duration of the game.


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> Thanks. Really excellent information.  Also, gotta say that I appreciate you putting your commentary in parentheses (is that plural for one parenthesis???). Or since they come in pairs, is a pair of these things (( singular??


Listen smart ass (lol), I did not go to class.I did not pay attention in class.  I was looking out the window wondering why we can;t learn outside instead.  I would also day dream that I was a pro surfer and playing for UCLA and the great John Wooden.  Does that ring a bell in your head? I still dont know what a verb or a noun is or are.  I went surfing most of the time and got a 2.0 in HS so I could play sports.  Let me tell you again.  I hated school because I was bullied by some insensitive teachers who would fail me if I dint overcome my fear and read out loud and do oral reports.  I was trapped in a system that could care a less about me.  Plus, my biological mother had a lot of pain and was looking to abort me.  However, someone talked her into meeting my mother and she took good care of her and me at her house until I was born.  Plus she gave my birth mother 6 months to change her mind.  I am grateful to sweet Jesus that I stayed with my adopted mom and dad.  I mean that dude and I'm grateful. Total BS dude that schools made me feel stupid when I was a super smart cat with more lives then you can count on your 10 fingers.  I knew the freaking answers but I sat there dumb as an ox.  Then guys like Lester, Lastman and Kicker would snicker and giggle when I was forced to stutter in front of the hole glass. Little punks, you know what I mean @Giesbock?  Making fun of a special needs kid who couldnt talk or write for that matter. All he could do is run and smake the boys hard on the court.  Pink bellies too and some rubber fingers to go along.  TP their house like every month.  I got my revenge and I'm still dealing with these dudes at 53.  Amazing how some boys never really become men. So I have no idea how to write, like not all dude so keep making fun of me......jk......lol!!!


----------



## Soccerfan2

sdb said:


> As I mentioned, these 2 are not ACL specific. The 2nd abstract talks about injury incidence being greater at the end of the halves. The first mentions incidence highest at the end of the game.  I can source about 10-15 additional studies that all show the same thing: that injury incidence was shown to increase towards the end of the first half and towards the end of the 2nd half (as well as at the start). That’s how they make the conclusions about risk. I think it’s fairly obvious that fatigue contributes to injury. Arbitrary sub rules that prevent or discourage coaches from subbing players off to get rest at the end of the half are increasing injury risk.


Jellybelly’s point was that there isn’t data to back up the claim that more ACL injuries happen in the last 5 minutes of the game. I agree. You are attempting to extrapolate a loooonnngggg way here. From injury risk to injury, from hamstring strain to ACL tear, from pro to youth, from statistically insignificant to significant. Even if there was clear science to show that ACL tears are more frequent in the last part of a game, how do you know that subbing practices are significantly different from one league to the other? Doesn’t it seem that the top players usually play full games regardless of whether there are sub rules in their league to prevent re-entry or not?

You feeling something is fairly obvious is much different than having well established science to support it.


----------



## Ellejustus

*If you're married and make it out of the Quarantine still married, this is what most of us will look like.  Oh joy, I cant wait *


----------



## Giesbock

Ellejustus said:


> Listen smart ass (lol), I did not go to class.I did not pay attention in class.  I was looking out the window wondering why we can;t learn outside instead.  I would also day dream that I was a pro surfer and playing for UCLA and the great John Wooden.  Does that ring a bell in your head? I still dont know what a verb or a noun is or are.  I went surfing most of the time and got a 2.0 in HS so I could play sports.  Let me tell you again.  I hated school because I was bullied by some insensitive teachers who would fail me if I dint overcome my fear and read out loud and do oral reports.  I was trapped in a system that could care a less about me.  Plus, my biological mother had a lot of pain and was looking to abort me.  However, someone talked her into meeting my mother and she took good care of her and me at her house until I was born.  Plus she gave my birth mother 6 months to change her mind.  I am grateful to sweet Jesus that I stayed with my adopted mom and dad.  I mean that dude and I'm grateful. Total BS dude that schools made me feel stupid when I was a super smart cat with more lives then you can count on your 10 fingers.  I knew the freaking answers but I sat there dumb as an ox.  Then guys like Lester, Lastman and Kicker would snicker and giggle when I was forced to stutter in front of the hole glass. Little punks, you know what I mean @Giesbock?  Making fun of a special needs kid who couldnt talk or write for that matter. All he could do is run and smake the boys hard on the court.  Pink bellies too and some rubber fingers to go along.  TP their house like every month.  I got my revenge and I'm still dealing with these dudes at 53.  Amazing how some boys never really become men. So I have no idea how to write, like not all dude so keep making fun of me......jk......lol!!!


Didn’t mean for that (( stuff to come off as making fun. Just trying have some fun cuz Having fun for those of us with us with German blood is rare indeed!


----------



## Ellejustus

Giesbock said:


> Didn’t mean for that (( stuff to come off as making fun. Just trying have some fun cuz Having fun for those of us with us with German blood is rare indeed!


Me too.  I'm having fun.  My birth mother last name was Kirk.  Scottish   I was told my birth father might have played pro baseball but I never could prove it because my adoption was private.  I just tell some folks it probably was a player from the Doyers.  You cool with that story right?  William Wallace and Braveheart is one of my all time favs. I also learned never to back down to something you strongly believe in from my older bro.  This guy has brass balls unlike anyone I know.  Watch this guy in action bro


----------



## Ellejustus

@Giesbock My mom and her first husband went to Los Angles High School.  Both of them went to USC.  That is all true.  He became a big time lawyer. They owned 25% of Hawaiian Punch so I was told.  Larry Snow was top lawyer for a small car company called Chevrolet Corp. He was lead guy on the West Coast.  They also owned Fullerton Rubber Company.  They owned four homes in Three Arch Bay.  Two homes in Fullerton and one up in Arrowhead.  Larry was the President of the Rotary Club too. Basically, they were stinking rich.  Larry went horse back riding up in Arrowhead and fell off and broke his leg.  He had surgery and formed a blood clot afterwards.  That blood clot gave him a heart attack as he was walking to his office in Santa Ana.  36 years old. My mom was a stay home mom. Four kids under 14 with no more dad like that dad.  She never wrote a check in her life and knew nothing about business.  Let's just say the smart rich dudes paid my mom off quickly.  She did keep four of the homes.  Met my dad a year later and did the adoption thing.  Too bad I don;t have HP shares


----------



## dad4

Does either league keep stats on ACL injuries?


----------



## Ellejustus

Long day at the office today.  I'm tired.  Let's have a good "Throw Back Thursday" tomorrow.  Throw what ever you want at me.  I have so much to throw back it shall be a fun day


----------



## Ellejustus

Good nite everyone.  Sweat dreams and please dont give up hope.  Soon, we will all be outside playing again


----------



## Ellejustus

This song 100% is how I was there for my dd. It's her time now.  She's driving and basically an adult.  Good nite for reals.  Listen to the words.  My love for my dd is strong,


----------



## sdb

Soccerfan2 said:


> Jellybelly’s point was that there isn’t data to back up the claim that more ACL injuries happen in the last 5 minutes of the game. I agree. You are attempting to extrapolate a loooonnngggg way here. From injury risk to injury, from hamstring strain to ACL tear, from pro to youth, from statistically insignificant to significant. Even if there was clear science to show that ACL tears are more frequent in the last part of a game, how do you know that subbing practices are significantly different from one league to the other? Doesn’t it seem that the top players usually play full games regardless of whether there are sub rules in their league to prevent re-entry or not?
> 
> You feeling something is fairly obvious is much different than having well established science to support it.


Again, my point is that end of the half (both) is a time period in which players have an increased risk for injury. This is true for both professional and elite youth players.  Have a read:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5013706/  This is one of the conclusions reached by a team reviewing 18 studies that met a rigorous inclusion criteria.

There are other factors that contribute to injury risk also, for example, match exposure is higher risk than practice exposure. A below is for elite youth, B below is for professional.


----------



## sdb

dad4 said:


> Does either league keep stats on ACL injuries?


I've never seen it published if it exists. I've seen NCAA data.


----------



## EOTL

jellybelly71 said:


> You have posted numerous times referencing ACL risk as it pertains to DA vs ECNL vs HS vs other. You have also posted your sources on occasion (I've read them all.) No doubt, female athlete ACL injury rates are alarming and we should do everything possible to reduce those rates. Unfortunately, you have consistently drawn false conclusions from the sources you've listed, many of which were poorly designed or small case studies from which no conclusions can be drawn. Having said that, I'd like to see your source in reference to your claim about the increased rate of ACL injury in the final 5 minutes of each half. Please post it. Cheers to you in advance if your data are solid and actionable. Needless to say, I am dubious. Regardless, extrapolating any such data to DA v ECNL v HS is ludicrous unless ECNL and HS coaches are resting every player every half (which, of course, they are not.)
> 
> Neil deGrasse (smart dude): "It is okay _to_ not _know_. But when _you_ don't _know_, yet _think you know_, and wield power in that ignorance, it's a recipe for disaster."


Your DeGrasse quote is cute, but here’s the rub. Let’s assume I’m wrong and playing 90 straight minutes has no effect on ACL risk. If kids can get subbed in and out like in ECNL, no one more likely to tear their ACL and there is no “recipe for disaster.” But let’s say I’m right. Then it is your ignorance that is “a recipe for disaster.” In other words, you are supporting taking risks that are potentially catastrophic because you don’t know, while I’m doing the opposite (not taking risks).  You are so stupid you can’t even understand what DeGrasse is trying to tell you.

Regardless, I have already posted many studies, and I’m not going to do this again with another flat earther/anti-vaxer/science denier. I’ll just wait until we get to “I told you so.”


----------



## Roostah

sdb said:


> This is factually correct. There is data from many sources that shows that the risk of injury increases significantly at the end of each half. Substitution rules that limit subbing and prevent coaches from getting players off the field at the end of the half ultimately increase the likelihood of players getting hurt. There's really no reason to treat youth players like professional players.


To state that players are more at risk of tearing an ACL at the end of a half is factually incorrect and misleading.  Please see this study from Tim Hewett, one of the foremost experts on ACL injuries which shows the opposite of what you are stating.https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-019-01134-5


----------



## Roostah

The study’s conclusion:  “On the contrary, fatigued athletes appear to land with greater peak knee and hip flexion angles, and lower landing forces than unfatigued athletes—all of which are considered favourable movement strategies for reducing ACL loading. These data support recent analyses demonstrating no relationship between player workload in training and competition and the occurrence of ACL injury in sport.”


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## Kicker4Life

How do the ACL studies account for non contact versus contact based ACL injuries?


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## Ellejustus

I just counted on my 10 little fingers ten girls my dd played with or against that have torn ACLs.  I just counted 10 other girls who have quit soccer altogether.  Last of the 1 minute 10 count, I know 10 other girls who had or have concussions and 10 other girls who have or had depression, broken knee cap, broken wrist and so on.  That took me less the(a)n 1 (one) minute to do just now.  Theirs your're're're're test.  These girls were abused (not all) and over worked and their older sista's who had gone before them have been treated like poop from the pimps and pricks who have been running the show in some places.  Favoritism, being yelled at, groomed, Lied too on numerous occasions ((big lies too)), tricked, deceived, played, blacklisted, black balled among some of the threats.  Also, manipulated to "shoot for the stars" and go pro ((all in, full time, everyday, all day soccer)) at a cost of *$15,000 *to the *pay to play* customer ((99% of us)) (according to Hope Solo).  Times (x) 4(for, four, fore) years equals(=) *$60,000 *to *pay and play* so you can tell everyone your dd is participating in the G D A league, that is full of Elitist who think there life is better then every one else. If your dd can escape major injury ((just like some have just escaped their SAT score pressure)), she get's to go play in college.  Most of us will have to *pay to play* in college two. Nothing wrong with that.   No full rides in college just like no full rides at Beach.  Well, maybe one or two true Unicorns get the full ride in college. *$ixty thousand *big ones to risk all these injuries, bad apples, pitfalls & dangers just to help the top top .1% of the goats get on the YNT and go pro? If your dd made the YNT congratulations. You also owe all of us one big "Thank You" for making us travel around the country promoting this circus. All for the .1%ters. Your welcome btw . However, I'm second guessing my decisions more & more as I sit in my house all day and all night wondering how the hell all this happened. *Play local so we can all stay & play local*.  *Locals only!!!!!!*


----------



## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> I just counted on my 10 little fingers ten girls my dd played with or against that have torn ACLs.  I just counted 10 other girls who have quit soccer altogether.  Last of the 1 minute 10 count, I know 10 other girls who had or have concussions and 10 other girls who have or had depression, broken knee cap, broken wrist and so on.  That took me less the(a)n 1 (one) minute to do just now.  Theirs your're're're're test.  These girls were abused (not all) and over worked and their older sista's who had gone before them have been treated like poop from the pimps and pricks who have been running the show in some places.  Favoritism, being yelled at, groomed, Lied too on numerous occasions ((big lies too)), tricked, deceived, played, blacklisted, black balled among some of the threats.  Also, manipulated to "shoot for the stars" and go pro ((all in, full time, everyday, all day soccer)) at a cost of *$15,000 *to the *pay to play* customer ((99% of us)) (according to Hope Solo).  Times (x) 4(for, four, fore) years equals(=) *$60,000 *to *pay and play* so you can tell everyone your dd is participating in the G D A league, that is full of Elitist who think there life is better then every one else. If your dd can escape major injury ((just like some have just escaped their SAT score pressure)), she get's to go play in college.  Most of us will have to *pay to play* in college two. Nothing wrong with that.   No full rides in college just like no full rides at Beach.  Well, maybe one or two true Unicorns get the full ride in college. *$ixty thousand *big ones to risk all these injuries, bad apples, pitfalls & dangers just to help the top top .1% of the goats get on the YNT and go pro? If your dd made the YNT congratulations. You also owe all of us one big "Thank You" for making us travel around the country promoting this circus. All for the .1%ters. Your welcome btw . However, I'm second guessing my decisions more & more as I sit in my house all day and all night wondering how the hell all this happened. *Play local so we can all stay & play local*.  *Locals only!!!!!!*


Wow!  That’s some serious scrilla, scratch, paper my friend.  I have a question for those who say their goal is only college.

How is paying 60k over 4 years to enhance your kids chances of getting into college any different than the other parents that were buying test scores etc. in the admissions scandal?


----------



## Ellejustus

*Throwback Thursday*​
Anybody what to play?  Today's topic, "The Birth Year Change"  It's time we all talk about this.  This decision was not debated and the folks at USSF would not listen to the major majority. Like 80% against!!!! I want to investigate this deeper.  Where are the masterminds behind forcing this on everyone and who are they? Are they still working at headquarters in Chicago?  Was it the Technical Directors and the Coaches from England and the Netherlands who forced this "mandate" on the whole country?

Check this from one club:  This is like one of hundreds out there. I did my research 

Major Change Mandated by US Soccer: How calendar year registration could impact your child from a team formation standpoint (beginning this Fall 2017 season & beyond) Last year US Soccer, the national entity which governs soccer in our country, established a mandate which requires all soccer organizations in the US to use a player's calendar birth year to determine his/her soccer league's age group. Based on that, this document is intended to help you understand the implications of that change, and to provide answers to some questions that may come up. Key Things to Know and Understand: 1. US Soccer has mandated that all soccer leagues in this country must register players using a calendar year system, not a school year system. 2. Teams that have been formed in the past can remain together, but it possibly would require some players on the team to play up into an older division (something which may be extremely common throughout the league but may have developmental implications). 3. Although MTsc U has been opposed to this change from the time it was made known, the deadline for complying with this mandate is the Fall of 2017. Whereas most clubs made the change in the Fall of 2016, MTsc U has waited until the last possible moment to comply. Our Club had hoped that all the national attention and petitions that were made by many clubs when this rule was first announced would cause US Soccer to make a change to their original mandate as it applies to recreational players. However, this has not happened. So although we do not agree with this change, we must ultimately conform. As a result, MTsc United is the last known club in eastern Oklahoma to comply. Again, this change is mandated by US Soccer, and all regional and community soccer clubs in Oklahoma and around the country are obligated to comply.


MacDre said:


> Wow!  That’s some serious scrilla, scratch, paper my friend.  I have a question for those who say their goal is only college.
> 
> How is paying 60k over 4 years to enhance your kids chances of getting into college any different than the other parents that were buying test scores etc. in the admissions scandal?


I'm one big tagline and it just runs and runs.  Imagine if I was able to actually talk when I was 5?  I would have been moved up a few class levels I bet because I'm actually not dumb. I had one asshole who ran a company I helped grow.  He paid me well but he always told me I didnlt do much after I got everything set up for his business with all my ideas.  he would tell me, "Your just an ideas guy."  WTH, just a guy with some ideas in his brain that roll out of my mouth every second.


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## sdb

So ECNL is free and there's no travel with associated costs? Pay to play is not a GDA issue, it's a club soccer issue.


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## Ellejustus

*FIVE THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT BIRTH YEAR REGISTRATION*

AUGUST 1 2017​
Beginning on Aug. 1, 2017, the way in which youth players in the United States register for youth soccer teams will be based on their year of birth. This new standard will help create clarity,((No, it created confusion and some clubs begged you not to do this for the .1%ters)) improve understanding about developmental progress and enhance playing environments as a part of the U.S. Soccer Player Development Initiatives (PDI’s).

Here are *five things* you should know about the new registration rules to age groups.

*What is birth year registration?*

Currently, youth players in the United States sign up for same-age group clubs and teams based on the traditional calendar of a school year, from August to July. Under this system of registration, a player born before August 1, 2007 would have played in a U-11 age group (players age 11 and under) for the upcoming 2017-2018 season, while a player born after August 1, 2007 would have played in a U-10 age group.
Beginning August 1, for the upcoming 2017-2018 season, any player born from January 1 to December 31 of 2007 will play in a U-11 age group. Birth year will be the only determinant for youth team registration. There will no longer be a mid-year cut-off to decide in which age group a player will play.
The United States and Canada have been the only FIFA member nations to use this model.
This PDI brings youth soccer in the United States in line with the rest of the world by using a *normal *((and calendar year is is abnormal?))
calendar year of each player’s birth year to determine their age group.  ((What is the opposite of normal? Abnormal, adjective. not normal, average, typical, or usual; deviating from a standard))

The change in age group registration aims to support player development *((not my child)) *and goes hand-in-hand with the new standards for small-sided games *((so all this was done to teach small sided game?)).* Using birth year registration ensures that players are training and playing in the *proper* ((and the improper way is this: not in accordance with accepted rules or standards, especially of morality or honesty.)) age group, each with their own developmental needs. ((oh I see)

The new standard also strives to lessen relative age effect (RAE). RAE is a selection bias towards players born earlier in the calendar year. Players born in early months are naturally older and more mature, but not necessarily better players. While the change to birth year registration won’t completely solve the problem, it will make it easier to identify and understand. (The RAE reason)

*Easier to Understand and Creates Awareness *((and cause a mass chaotic situation))
Shifting to a birth year registration system makes it easier to understand what age group a youth player belongs in ((or lied to by the #1 GDA club)) Previously, two players born in the same year could be in different age groups. *Now, every player born in the same calendar year will play in the same age group. This makes it easier for parents to figure out *((not for me))* where their child should be playing and for both coaches and parents to become more aware of how players develop based on age and how individual needs may vary.*

This change also aligns the U.S. youth soccer calendar with the rest of the world. The United States was one of only two countries that used a school year calendar to determine age group. ((so?) Now, the United States joins nearly every other FIFA federation. U.S. youth players will now develop and train in the same age group environment as leading soccer nations worldwide.  ((oh joy, what a great idea knuckleheads.  Seriously, this was the #1 bomb attack on all of us to begin the War of 2016 and so many said, "wtf are you doing, stop!!!!"  However, USSF and few folks said they know what's best and were here to take all the Elite players from the Elite clubs that play in the Elite Club National League (ECNL) and make them World Class, not just Elite.  Plus, we have The List all you fools think is important when goat is 12.  Hahahahahaah.  Suckers!!!!!


----------



## sdb

Kicker4Life said:


> How do the ACL studies account for non contact versus contact based ACL injuries?


From what I've read, 55-70% of ACL injuries are classified as non-contact.


----------



## MacDre

sdb said:


> So ECNL is free and there's no travel with associated costs? Pay to play is not a GDA issue, it's a club soccer issue.


Valid point.  What does ECNL cost?


----------



## Ellejustus

sdb said:


> So ECNL is free and there's no travel with associated costs? Pay to play is not a GDA issue, it's a club soccer issue.


ECNL never said it was free.  No got free unless you needed help.  GDA said it would be fully funded and not just for one year and be grateful. You paid for a service at ECNL.  It wasn;t $60,000 either.  Map said it was $33K back in the day.  That's still pay to play, just now it cost way more because of all the travel.


----------



## Dos Equis

sdb said:


> So ECNL is free and there's no travel with associated costs? Pay to play is not a GDA issue, it's a club soccer issue.


Agreed, ECNL and DA costs are more alike than different.  DA was not supposed to be that way, as originally described/marketed by US Soccer and the clubs, hence some of the frustration.  I never bought into that line of thought, so that component of the DA bothers me not.

Pay to play is not a club soccer issue --  club soccer is a choice, and that it costs money to run a club is a reality.  Even if you eliminate all but local travel, someone has to pay coach salaries (generally 2/3 of a club's budget), field and equipment (another 10-25%), uniforms, referees ...  the issue is a few people want someone else to pay for their child.  Perhaps they think their child somehow deserves a free ride, or that US Soccer, MLS, NWSL are flush enough that they should pay the costs of those players deemed worthy of developing, like the boys DA.  Or perhaps coaches should work for free and local municipalities and clubs should build and maintain enough fields for every user group to have free access.  

Someone has to pay for these kids to play.  I have generally felt I have received value for that payment, but understand not all do.


----------



## sdb

I don't think GDA ever said that it was free either. First year, I believe that only 2 clubs in SoCal announced that it would be free for all players, Pats and LAG. I know that LAG is still free, not sure about Pats. The ECNL and GDA families we know both pay about the same, roughly $8-10K per year incl. associated travel.

You may have been sold a bill of goods, but you bought it. 100% your fault for not doing more due diligence, for falling for the sales pitch.


----------



## Ellejustus

Dos Equis said:


> Agreed, ECNL and DA costs are more alike than different.  DA was not supposed to be that way, as originally described/marketed by US Soccer and the clubs, hence some of the frustration.  I never bought into that line of thought, so that component of the DA bothers me not.
> 
> Pay to play is not a club soccer issue --  club soccer is a choice, and that it costs money to run a club is a reality.  Even if you eliminate all but local travel, someone has to pay coach salaries (generally 2/3 of a club's budget), field and equipment (another 10-25%), uniforms, referees ...  the issue is a few people want someone else to pay for their child.  Perhaps they think their child somehow deserves a free ride, or that US Soccer, MLS, NWSL are flush enough that they should pay the costs of those players deemed worthy of developing, like the boys DA.  Or perhaps coaches should work for free and local municipalities and clubs should build and maintain enough fields for every user group to have free access.
> 
> Someone has to pay for these kids to play.  I have generally felt I have received value for that payment, but understand not all do.


First off smart man ((Just having fun)) great job not falling for the trick like I did. This is all about college for your dd. Hope Solo said poor folks can;t enter club soccer.  It's like an old white man's country club that gets so many favors that their kids get all the glory still and poor kids can;t enter the league.  When you pay to play, the one's you pay make sure you get to play and start and receive all the benefits of what the league can offer. There lies the problem dude.  Thirdly, some coaches and docs ((not all) get paid way too much. If your rich dad, who cares right?  Fourth, the top top players need to be protected from all of you who love pay per play for obvious reasons and let the top top play for free and with only the other top top goats only. Play possession and the right way can only be plaid with the top top players. Last, i'm so glad that @Dos Equis received values for his investment in the pay per play leagues.  I did not and mine was free.  Imagine that.  A poor American father with a half Guatemalan dd getting a full ride by the #1 GDA club in America that told everyone on their website to donate more of the rich money so we can play for free while dads like you pay for it.  I get this now.  If the poor dad has some issues, he needs to shut because it's all free.


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## Soccerfan2

I never heard our club or GDA as a whole say it would be free. It is not even free for many boys DA players. Our local USL affiliated (future MLS) boys DA started out fully funding the boys academy, but pulled funding after a few years when they determined they couldn’t . The club gave parents the option to continue the program by covering the costs themselves, and they voted to do so, so the boys DA survives that way. 
US Soccer tried to reduce the cost of DA play by funding league and showcase costs. DA actually costs clubs less than ECNL because DA clubs don’t pay league fees, ref fees or tournament fees. Those savings may be offset by additional coach and field rental expenses due to the 4 day a week training mandate - I don’t know. 

In my experience, our club has not passed this possible savings on to parents in the form of reduced monthly dues, but they could.
DA and ECNL families both bear the extra travel costs associated with playing in a national league head on.

This pay to play model is not unique to soccer. It is the same for many youth sports.


----------



## dad4

sdb said:


> I've never seen it published if it exists. I've seen NCAA data.


My bet is that both leagues are afraid to tell parents that serious injuries (ACL plus 2nd concussions) are over 10 percent per year.


----------



## Ellejustus

sdb said:


> I don't think GDA ever said that it was free either. First year, I believe that only 2 clubs in SoCal announced that it would be free for all players, Pats and LAG. I know that LAG is still free, not sure about Pats. The ECNL and GDA families we know both pay about the same, roughly $8-10K per year incl. associated travel.
> 
> You may have been sold a bill of goods, but you bought it. 100% your fault for not doing more due diligence, for falling for the sales pitch.


 @Dos Equis (laughing and just having fun).  LAFC, Legends, Surf, Pats and the LA Galaxy announce fully funded in 2016 to my ears and eyes.  I was at all the talks dude in 2016 and 2017. I'm not sure wtf happened, but it was for only for one year.  I;m still scratching my head on that trick.  However, just so you no, no Doc said, "hey, come here for one year of fully funded fun and then after that it will cost you $10,000-$15,000 depending on your travel budget and how you travel.  That btw, is determined by each families assets, right? Fully funded was a lie, it just wasn;t going to ever really happen and smart dads like you Dos didnt fall for the lie.  However, your happy with the GDA.  That is weird imo a makes me question things in my brain. It was a trick to get goats to come I think.  Again, I did not make one outbound phone call to a Doc.  All calls were inbound from the Doc or owner .I still have copies of text from two Docs with the deal.  We set up meetings with my wife and dd and Doc and they ALL shared to us what the big GDA plan was and how all clubs need to fully fund their top teams, just like the men.  Come on now, get your head out of the sky and see the facts as they're.  We were sold this hole GDA league based on being just like the BDA.  Are they not fully funded?


----------



## Ellejustus

Soccerfan2 said:


> I never heard our club or GDA as a whole say it would be free. It is not even free for many boys DA players. Our local USL affiliated (future MLS) boys DA started out fully funding the boys academy, but pulled funding after a few years when they determined they couldn’t . The club gave parents the option to continue the program by covering the costs themselves, and they voted to do so, so the boys DA survives that way.
> US Soccer tried to reduce the cost of DA play by funding league and showcase costs. DA actually costs clubs less than ECNL because DA clubs don’t pay league fees, ref fees or tournament fees. Those savings may be offset by additional coach and field rental expenses due to the 4 day a week training mandate - I don’t know.
> 
> In my experience, our club has not passed this possible savings on to parents in the form of reduced monthly dues, but they could.
> DA and ECNL families both bear the extra travel costs associated with playing in a national league head on.
> 
> This pay to play model is not unique to soccer. It is the same for many youth sports.


There is a reason for that.  Think about that and get back to me with your answer


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## Ellejustus

@MacDre Hey, whats going on?  Do you see what I see?  This is amazing.  I promised not to share PMs and I won, but the hate male I'm getting is crazy.  Wow, some bad ass papa bears are not happy right about now.  They the type that pay for what they want.  You get my drift?  All we want is to separate the goats from the sheep.  I'm also open to the idea my dd is actually a sheep and not worthy of goathood like some.  Yesterday I saw my  my dd working on some stuff with soccer ball in backyard.  No juggling though.  I watched and watched and still no juggling like they do in the circus league.  So I finally did it.  I got the nerve and said, "hey you, can you do 100 juggles in a row?"  She said, "sure."  First try, 100. no joke.  Righ,t then left, than right, on the knee, the head and no drop to the ground.  She asked why afterwards and I just said I was curious.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I know some Docs who promised 11, 12 & 13 year old girls 90 minutes a game, plus start every game, never come out, like ever, plus this and plus that.  Some of these GDA parents would lose their marbles if you tried to take their kid out early.  I'm glad I stood up for the American way and never asked for this or that.  I swear on the good book I never begged for a handout. I swear EOTL.  They came to us like Coach K and told us we were the first of many many scholarships.  I took the full ride.  I'm guilty as charged, but I never begged, never, not once.  I just wanted my dd to get up to bat and let me to you, she hit a grand slam.


You stood up for the American way and never asked?  Why would you need to ask when you shoved the Kool-Aid IV directly into your arm?  LMAO!


----------



## Ellejustus

Plus, whats the big deal if 40 of the top top players in Socal are in a top top league for each age group?  It's only about .1% of the players.  The rest can go play in GDA or ECNL or any league for that matter.  This top top league needs to be run by honest folks who wants the best of the best to play together and it needs to be free.  Why am I for that? Guess why?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Long day at the office today.  I'm tired.  Let's have a good "Throw Back Thursday" tomorrow.  Throw what ever you want at me.  I have so much to throw back it shall be a fun day


Based on your babble and multiple profiles, I'm changing your name from SoccerHelper to TunaHelper.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> You stood up for the American way and never asked?  Why would you need to ask when you shoved the Kool-Aid IV directly into your arm?  LMAO!


Hell ya I did Lester.  I was poor at the time and they said my goat was one of the top socal forwards at the time.  The kool air was free and tasted so good, Oh ya!!!!


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> ECNL never said it was free.  No got free unless you needed help.  GDA said it would be fully funded and not just for one year and be grateful. You paid for a service at ECNL.  It wasn;t $60,000 either.  Map said it was $33K back in the day.  That's still pay to play, just now it cost way more because of all the travel.


How much do you pay Ellejutus for ECNL?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> Wow!  That’s some serious scrilla, scratch, paper my friend.  I have a question for those who say their goal is only college.
> 
> How is paying 60k over 4 years to enhance your kids chances of getting into college any different than the other parents that were buying test scores etc. in the admissions scandal?


I don't know anybody that pays $15k per year for soccer, and if they did I'd stop talking to them, but you have to remember comp soccer teaches life lessons... and the reality is that you'd still be spending some amount of money on something else.  Paying for soccer isn't bribing schools.  Making a $70M donation to USC and then bragging you didn't pay Rick Singer to get YOUR kid into the school, like Dr. Dre did... that's bribing a school.


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> How much do you pay Ellejutus for ECNL?


$3,000 for the coach.  I paid in full because he's a good guy and I wanted a discount.  I also requested no travel to NJ and only one showcase. Also, skipped Thanksgiving showcase and was not going to Vegas two weeks in a row.  Only the CPA but that got cancelled. That would be free trip because my friend will let me stay at his vacation house for free. I think I had it down to just under $6,000 for this year.  We did air b and b and brought our own top roman.  Everyone has different funds bushman.  I lost all mine in 2017 and no one bailed me out.  I actually got crap from friends.  "You should have saved for a rainy day."  Well I did, but that went all to club soccer the last two years chasing a Naty and flying all around first year GDA. Today, I'm making bank while my buddy is losing now.  He told me he took a blood bath in the stock market.  He had $5,000,000 now its like $3,000,000.  It goes up 5%, down 5%.  I asked if he pulled it out, and he said, "no."  Another friend told me I left my family in a bad spot by not saving my extra cash I had left after my pay check and let me know how evil travel sports are and they dont care about you really.  Well, this smart ass lost his job and is freaking out.  Now I'm helping him and the govt is bailing him out because he now see's he was in the wrong industry.  However, he's getting bailed out when no one helped me in 2017.  It's life and It's not always fair is it?


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> First off smart man ((Just having fun)) great job not falling for the trick like I did. This is all about college for your dd. Hope Solo said poor folks can;t enter club soccer.  It's like an old white man's country club that gets so many favors that their kids get all the glory still and poor kids can;t enter the league.  When you pay to play, the one's you pay make sure you get to play and start and receive all the benefits of what the league can offer. There lies the problem dude.  Thirdly, some coaches and docs ((not all) get paid way too much. If your rich dad, who cares right?  Fourth, the top top players need to be protected from all of you who love pay per play for obvious reasons and let the top top play for free and with only the other top top goats only. Play possession and the right way can only be plaid with the top top players. Last, i'm so glad that @Dos Equis received values for his investment in the pay per play leagues.  I did not and mine was free.  Imagine that.  A poor American father with a half Guatemalan dd getting a full ride by the #1 GDA club in America that told everyone on their website to donate more of the rich money so we can play for free while dads like you pay for it.  I get this now.  If the poor dad has some issues, he needs to shut because it's all free.


When you pay to play, the one's you pay make sure you get to play and start and receive all the benefits of what the league can offer? This is far from the truth. I only can speak for my dd's team or club. We have players on our team that pays 100% and they do a great deal for the team and there dd plays maybe 15 mins a game. Sometimes players see less playing time than that. Our TOP TOP players needs to be protected? Our top players pays full boat to play and they also work their tails off too.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> I don't know anybody that pays $15k per year for soccer, and if they did I'd stop talking to them, but you have to remember comp soccer teaches life lessons... and the reality is that you'd still be spending some amount of money on something else.  Paying for soccer isn't bribing schools.  Making a $70M donation to USC and then bragging you didn't pay Rick Singer to get YOUR kid into the school, like Dr. Dre did... that's bribing a school.


Lester, donations come in all colors.  You always point out the perception of just one color.  Stop it dude.  Your time is up and America hates the law of two, trust me.  The universe is changing and if you keep the hate you in your little brain, you will miss out on a piece of heaven where God see's no color


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> When you pay to play, the one's you pay make sure you get to play and start and receive all the benefits of what the league can offer? This is far from the truth. I only can speak for my dd's team or club. We have players on our team that pays 100% and they do a great deal for the team and there dd plays maybe 15 mins a game. Sometimes players see less playing time than that. Our TOP TOP players needs to be protected? Our top players pays full boat to play and they also work their tails off too.


There lies the problem.  What you just said is true.


----------



## Soccerfan2

dad4 said:


> My bet is that both leagues are afraid to tell parents that serious injuries (ACL plus 2nd concussions) are over 10 percent per year.


I don’t think they collect the data for ACL injuries. There’s no reporting in of injuries in DA aside from concussions.


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## Ellejustus

The war of 2016 is still going on but will soon end just like this fool.  Is that you Lester?


----------



## dad4

do


Soccerfan2 said:


> I don’t think they collect the data for ACL injuries. There’s no reporting in of injuries in DA aside from concussions.


Does DA report their concussion data?  Or just keep it to themselves?


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> I don't know anybody that pays $15k per year for soccer, and if they did I'd stop talking to them, but you have to remember comp soccer teaches life lessons... and the reality is that you'd still be spending some amount of money on something else.  Paying for soccer isn't bribing schools.  Making a $70M donation to USC and then bragging you didn't pay Rick Singer to get YOUR kid into the school, like Dr. Dre did... that's bribing a school.


Your up in Stocton, the funds are a little deeper in South OC and Rancho Santa Fe Lester.


----------



## MacDre

Okay, I understand that things aren’t free.

But, what I do not understand is why clubs in Europe and Mexico are free but the people on this board feels it’s impossible to have free club soccer.

Things cost in Europe and Mexico too.  I guess they make things happen and we make excuses.

I think it’s kinda pathetic for the politically, socially, and economically disenfranchised to not have an opportunity to play youth sports in the richest nation because of cost.  I find it repulsive that most don’t care.


----------



## Ellejustus

dad4 said:


> do
> 
> Does DA report their concussion data?  Or just keep it to themselves?


I have a few insiders that will let me know if the information is available.  I want the information out of curiosity.  My brother Dave was told by that stupid consumer product commissioner only 20 injuries over in last 13 years for lawn dart game for kids.  That was BS and that dude got fired later. Kickbacks from guys that cheat the system.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Lester, donations come in all colors.  You always point out the perception of just one color.  Stop it dude.  Your time is up and America hates the law of two, trust me.  The universe is changing and if you keep the hate you in your little brain, you will miss out on a piece of heaven where God see's no color


Actually I just pointed out the biggest offender who was stupid enough to pop his head up and brag about the bribing he didn't do.  And listen, TunaHelper, you're the last person on this site to be calling anyone a "little brain."  Your head injuries are as epic as your belief that everyone values your incessant babble.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Your up in Stocton, the funds are a little deeper in South OC and Rancho Santa Fe Lester.


"Your up in Stocton?"  Really?  Nobody is paying a dolt like you more than my income.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> Okay, I understand that things aren’t free.
> 
> But, what I do not understand is why clubs in Europe and Mexico are free but the people on this board feels it’s impossible to have free club soccer.
> 
> Things cost in Europe and Mexico too.  I guess they make things happen and we make excuses.
> 
> I think it’s kinda pathetic for the politically, socially, and economically disenfranchised to not have an opportunity to play youth sports in the richest nation because of cost.  I find it repulsive that most don’t care.


You can play soccer for a low cost in the U.S.  The better soccer you want, the more you pay for it, just like everything else in life.  Better the neighborhood... better the car... etc.  Soccer is affordable for those that want to play.


----------



## gotothebushes

The Outlaw said:


> I don't know anybody that pays $15k per year for soccer, and if they did I'd stop talking to them, but you have to remember comp soccer teaches life lessons... and the reality is that you'd still be spending some amount of money on something else.  Paying for soccer isn't bribing schools.  Making a $70M donation to USC and then bragging you didn't pay Rick Singer to get YOUR kid into the school, like Dr. Dre did... that's bribing a school.


 Don't think Dr. Dre's the only one donating 70M to college campuses. Many came before Dr. Dre getting their names on a building.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

gotothebushes said:


> Don't think Dr. Dre's the only one donating 70M to college campuses. Many came before Dr. Dre getting their names on a building.


Agree 100%... but he was the only one stupid enough to say "my kid got in on her own merits" when others were getting busted.


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## EOTL

Roostah said:


> The study’s conclusion:  “On the contrary, fatigued athletes appear to land with greater peak knee and hip flexion angles, and lower landing forces than unfatigued athletes—all of which are considered favourable movement strategies for reducing ACL loading. These data support recent analyses demonstrating no relationship between player workload in training and competition and the occurrence of ACL injury in sport.”


I’m glad you’ve done at least a modicum of research into this issue. A couple points. First, you cite from the abstract, presumably without having read the article since that would require you to pay $50. I will admit I haven’t read it either but, then again, I’m not relying on it. Without knowing what the study actually says, how The study was conducted, and the degree of certainty in his conclusions, it’s hard to put much stock into it. 

Although I have no idea exactly what lab tests he used to reach his results, but I do know from other sources that he was focusing exclusively on physical fatigue and not mental fatigue, the latter of which is probably the most important driver. Notably, the cited language shows that the participants In his study actually showed better form as they tired. That should be no surprise, since someone performing the same repetitive task over and over again will likely be more careful as they tire in order to mitigate the risk of injury. That is not a luxury that exists in the 89th minute of a soccer game as a girl tries to cut back. In addition to not having the ability to engage in the safest way of cutting back, a 15 year old doesn’t even know what is the best way to do this. In fact, it should not be a surprise that mental fatigue in competition is a major driver of the injury risk. Shoot, fatigue during competitive sports increases the concussion rates, among other injuries, although we know that minutes played doesn’t make your skull any softer or your brain any bouncier. See https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15438620701879020.  

And of course, his theory goes against the bulk of pretty much every other study, or maybe it doesn’t since he was looking at physical fatigue based on lab studies while others were considering the whole package, including mental fatigue. Regardless, show me the study that says fatigue doesn’t significantly increase the risk of other types of injuries. Once we’ve done that, you can go ahead and proclaim that the GDA’s limited substitution rules are the most brilliant, perfect way for 15 year old girls to play soccer.


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## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Actually I just pointed out the biggest offender who was stupid enough to pop his head up and brag about the bribing he didn't do.  And listen, TunaHelper, you're the last person on this site to be calling anyone a "little brain."  Your head injuries are as epic as your belief that everyone values your incessant babble.


Enjoy the hate dude.  Must be lonely laying or lying in bed thinking how much you hate black people or at the very least, your brain thinks we all started the race at the same starting gate to the America Dream finish line.   My buddy lives up in Fresno there and he told me to tell you, you need more than help.  Help is on the way buddy, get ready for a new life after your let out of your house in Central Cali.  Wow, you will hate the new world. I can feel your hate through my screen.  Darkness has ruled your soul for a long time brother. It's not to late to rid yourself of those demons.  Bad demons too and hard to exercise them out.  90% who have the hate you have can;t get rid of it even when they ask.  I think it's envy Lester for many reasons I won;t share on here. PM me and I will 100% share why your full of jealousy and envy.  Dangerous sins my friend for the soul.  Be careful dude.....


----------



## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> Okay, I understand that things aren’t free.
> 
> But, what I do not understand is why clubs in Europe and Mexico are free but the people on this board feels it’s impossible to have free club soccer.
> 
> Things cost in Europe and Mexico too.  I guess they make things happen and we make excuses.
> 
> I think it’s kinda pathetic for the politically, socially, and economically disenfranchised to not have an opportunity to play youth sports in the richest nation because of cost.  I find it repulsive that most don’t care.


So here's a little truth.  We got the full ride at the #1 GDA club the year before the actual start of this circus league.  However, after the third big lie, we bailed for another full ride with private training at Legends.  However, rules were changed again to help the #1 club not loooos any goats.  Because we left the first time, we were told only half would be covered for the GDA as punishment for leaving the team high and dry in the first place and I was told if we ever try and leave again the new Doc would not chase me to come back and try and give me a free hand out I was so desperately searching for.  Oh ya, I called every club I could find that had a soup kitchen for the poor like me and my dd.  The rich folks were so nice, they even served us the free hot meals. I see how ungrateful I have been to all of you and took my free hand out for granted. I admit I chased and even tried to bribe JH for an automatic qualifier for the list and CM position.  He said he could only promise her a spot on his 03/04 team and start 25% of the time and even play down with the baby 04s when needed. I see now that I was one of very very few that got tricked into the free hand outs by all the nice rich parents who run and control youth soccer.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Enjoy the hate dude.  Must be lonely laying or lying in bed thinking how much you hate black people or at the very least, your brain thinks we all started the race at the same starting gate to the America Dream finish line.   My buddy lives up in Fresno there and he told me to tell you, you need more than help.  Help is on the way buddy, get ready for a new life after your let out of your house in Central Cali.  Wow, you will hate the new world. I can feel your hate through my screen.  Darkness has ruled your soul for a long time brother. It's not to late to rid yourself of those demons.  Bad demons too and hard to exercise them out.  90% who have the hate you have can;t get rid of it even when they ask.  I think it's envy Lester for many reasons I won;t share on here. PM me and I will 100% share why your full of jealousy and envy.  Dangerous sins my friend for the soul.  Be careful dude.....


What are you babbling about now?  Stop dreaming about me laying in bed, Spicoli.  You need to focus on how your 9-year old was such a star, screwed over by the system and how her babbling daddy let her down by living her dream.  And so you know, I don't live in Central California.  It's a dump just like Santa Fe.  By the way, if I ever PM you, it's going to explain "your" and "you're" to your uneducated ass because your fucking posts burn my retinas.


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## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> What are you babbling about now?  Stop dreaming about me laying in bed, Spicoli.  You need to focus on how your 9-year old was such a star, screwed over by the system and how her babbling daddy let her down by living her dream.  And so you know, I don't live in Central California.  It's a dump just like Santa Fe.  By the way, if I ever PM you, it's going to explain "your" and "you're" to your uneducated ass because your fucking posts burn my retinas.


I'm sorry Lester, I thought you said Central Cali.  What parts you from than?  I have 25% Spicoli, 25% Forrest Gump, 25% The Water Boy and 25% Rodney D.


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## Ellejustus

I respect your jealousy sir.  TY for engaging me today.  My dd and I want a contest someday where the top top soccer goats battle it out and the true cream rises to da top.  The cream is diluted with sheep.  Again, for all those paying to play and listening to all this babble, I'm 100% open to my dd being a sheep. Sheep is not bad in this analogy.  Their just not true goats in the soccer example.  We have to have a higher competitive target based on the actual play on the field, not how much one is willing to pay to play.


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I'm sorry Lester, I thought you said Central Cali.  What parts you from than?  I have 25% Spicoli, 25% Forrest Gump, 25% The Water Boy and 25% Rodney D.


You said Central Cal, TunaHelper.  Nobody cares where I live... and you have ZERO association with Dangerfield.  My point is that if you're spending $15k a year on soccer for a child, you deserve whatever abuse you get.  That said, an investment in comp soccer is not necessarily a bad investment... unless you believe your own press... like you did.


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## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> You said Central Cal, TunaHelper.  Nobody cares where I live... and you have ZERO association with Dangerfield.  My point is that if you're spending $15k a year on soccer for a child, you deserve whatever abuse you get.  That said, an investment in comp soccer is not necessarily a bad investment... unless you believe your own press... like you did.


I have never paid $15,000.  Who said, i said, i paid $15K? The one's paying $15,000 already have it so who cares.  No complaints from them at all.  I demand it free if they want my dd to give up her childhood for full time soccer, that's all.


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## sdb

MacDre said:


> Okay, I understand that things aren’t free.
> 
> But, what I do not understand is why clubs in Europe and Mexico are free but the people on this board feels it’s impossible to have free club soccer.
> 
> Things cost in Europe and Mexico too.  I guess they make things happen and we make excuses.
> 
> I think it’s kinda pathetic for the politically, socially, and economically disenfranchised to not have an opportunity to play youth sports in the richest nation because of cost.  I find it repulsive that most don’t care.


Honest question: is club soccer free in Europe and Mexico at every level? Or just at the professional level? For female players as well as male players? If not free, where are the breaks?

Liga MX seems to be doing the best job of creating at least an equal number of top female teams as male teams (both 18). EPL is 20 vs. 12 for women, Ligue 1 the same, La Liga 20 mens vs. 16 for women.

Given all the riches we have as a country, or at least did until the last few weeks, I'd like to see us tackle the problem of homelessness and our education system first, then take on inequality in youth sports and the subset of club soccer...


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

sdb said:


> Honest question: is club soccer free in Europe and Mexico at every level? Or just at the professional level? For female players as well as male players? If not free, where are the breaks?
> 
> Liga MX seems to be doing the best job of creating at least an equal number of top female teams as male teams (both 18). EPL is 20 vs. 12 for women, Ligue 1 the same, La Liga 20 mens vs. 16 for women.
> 
> Given all the riches we have as a country, or at least did until the last few weeks, I'd like to see us tackle the problem of homelessness and our education system first, then take on inequality in youth sports and the subset of club soccer...


How do you tackle homelessness with our "riches" as a country?  How do you force someone to get clean if they don't want to?  How do you force someone to get a job if they don't want to?  How do you force someone to get mental health care if they don't want to?  How do you force someone to live something other than a nomadic lifestyle if they don't want to? 

I ask this because some of my liberal friends think throwing money at the problem will solve it.  I know that's the liberal way of thinking for EVERY problem, but what do you think is the solution?  And if we have "riches" as a country, why are we trillions in debt?  Do we truly have riches or are we just living large on credit?


----------



## Ellejustus

sdb said:


> Honest question: is club soccer free in Europe and Mexico at every level? Or just at the professional level? For female players as well as male players? If not free, where are the breaks?
> 
> Liga MX seems to be doing the best job of creating at least an equal number of top female teams as male teams (both 18). EPL is 20 vs. 12 for women, Ligue 1 the same, La Liga 20 mens vs. 16 for women.
> 
> Given all the riches we have as a country, or at least did until the last few weeks, I'd like to see us tackle the problem of homelessness and our education system first, then take on inequality in youth sports and the subset of club soccer...


I was told that the top Euro leagues find the top, top goat girls early in age and then it's a pathway to the YNT, academies and the pros.  All free!!!  If your not good enough, no college either, just rec and they pay to play.  Everyone in our country thinks their kid is a top top player and the experts say maybe 1%, that's it. We pay all this crap because, because 99% of you want one thing.  Can any of you guess what that # 1 priority is?  Clue:  Mr Singer.  All me and @MacDre have been saying is we need a new league that is free for those who want YNT and pro.  That isn;t alot of girls and some of us need to be ok with it.  I am.  It also needs to be fully funded for the girls and at least one parent also so they can make sure no funny business is going on road trips and the like.  US Swim coach groomed a girl, so let's not forget that.  Don;t let guys like Lester tell us it's her old man's fault for putting his top swimmer in our country in that situation.  Just like the kids who took showers with that old man coach in PA and even the creeps that are no longer alive that took 14 year old girls to some island.  Lester wants us to think it's their stupid dads fault for not protecting them from all these monsters we see in real life.


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## sdb

The Outlaw said:


> How do you tackle homelessness with our "riches" as a country?  How do you force someone to get clean if they don't want to?  How do you force someone to get a job if they don't want to?  How do you force someone to get mental health care if they don't want to?  How do you force someone to live something other than a nomadic lifestyle if they don't want to?
> 
> I ask this because some of my liberal friends think throwing money at the problem will solve it.  I know that's the liberal way of thinking for EVERY problem, but what do you think is the solution?  And if we have "riches" as a country, why are we trillions in debt?  Do we truly have riches or are we just living large on credit?


I knew this would trigger a "liberal vs. conservative" response, shouldn't have posted it. All good questions, but not for this thread.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> How do you tackle homelessness with our "riches" as a country?  How do you force someone to get clean if they don't want to?  How do you force someone to get a job if they don't want to?  How do you force someone to get mental health care if they don't want to?  How do you force someone to live something other than a nomadic lifestyle if they don't want to?
> 
> I ask this because some of my liberal friends think throwing money at the problem will solve it.  I know that's the liberal way of thinking for EVERY problem, but what do you think is the solution?  And if we have "riches" as a country, why are we trillions in debt?  Do we truly have riches or are we just living large on credit?


The law of two is a dark place to be dude.  Here you go again.  Do you understand that the law of two lie you were sold is blinding you? in the The Universe that God ((Yawweh)) created is not what your brain thinks it is.  It's so freaking powerful and guess what kind of fuel God uses Lester?  Love and grace


----------



## sdb

Ellejustus said:


> I was told that the top Euro leagues find the top, top goat girls early in age and then it's a pathway to the YNT, academies and the pros.  All free!!!  If your not good enough, no college either, just rec and they pay to play.  Everyone in our country thinks their kid is a top top player and the experts say maybe 1%, that's it. We pay all this crap because, because 99% of you want one thing.  Can any of you guess what that # 1 priority is?  Clue:  Mr Singer.  All me and @MacDre have been saying is we need a new league that is free for those who want YNT and pro.  That isn;t alot of girls and some of us need to be ok with it.  I am.  It also needs to be fully funded for the girls and at least one parent also so they can make sure no funny business is going on road trips and the like.  US Swim coach groomed a girl, so let's not forget that.  Don;t let guys like Lester tell us it's her old man's fault for putting his top swimmer in our country in that situation.  Just like the kids who took showers with that old man coach in PA and even the creeps that are no longer alive that took 14 year old girls to some island.  Lester wants us to think it's their stupid dads fault for not protecting them from all these monsters we see in real life.


At what point in their careers do you identify these goats?
How many of them are there in this new program?
Do you take goats who want to be in the program or those that are identified?
Who does the identification?
Who is going to pay? 
Where is this program based? 

The USA is 3.8 million square miles. CA is 164K, TX 267K. 

England is 50K square miles, Germany 140K, Spain 195K, France 250K, Italy 120K. Together 755K, about 20% of the USA in size. 

Goats in USA going to have to travel a lot, or be residential, or come together periodically which sort of defeats the purpose.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I was told that the top Euro leagues find the top, top goat girls early in age and then it's a pathway to the YNT, academies and the pros.  All free!!!  If your not good enough, no college either, just rec and they pay to play.  Everyone in our country thinks their kid is a top top player and the experts say maybe 1%, that's it. We pay all this crap because, because 99% of you want one thing.  Can any of you guess what that # 1 priority is?  Clue:  Mr Singer.  All me and @MacDre have been saying is we need a new league that is free for those who want YNT and pro.  That isn;t alot of girls and some of us need to be ok with it.  I am.  It also needs to be fully funded for the girls and at least one parent also so they can make sure no funny business is going on road trips and the like.  US Swim coach groomed a girl, so let's not forget that.  Don;t let guys like Lester tell us it's her old man's fault for putting his top swimmer in our country in that situation.  Just like the kids who took showers with that old man coach in PA and even the creeps that are no longer alive that took 14 year old girls to some island.  Lester wants us to think it's their stupid dads fault for not protecting them from all these monsters we see in real life.


Nothing is free.  Air and that won't be for much longer.  Stop asking for free.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

sdb said:


> I knew this would trigger a "liberal vs. conservative" response, shouldn't have posted it. All good questions, but not for this thread.


No, that's not what it triggered.  If I wanted that I would have used my usual term of "libtard".  It's a fair question... I know what my solution is.  I'm curious to know what makes you think our country is "rich" and what would you offer up as ideas to fix homelessness.  And anything that gets TunaHelper to stop babbling about his kid is good for this or any other threat.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> The law of two is a dark place to be dude.  Here you go again.  Do you understand that the law of two lie you were sold is blinding you? in the The Universe that God ((Yawweh)) created is not what your brain thinks it is.  It's so freaking powerful and guess what kind of fuel God uses Lester?  Love and grace


With all minimum due respect, Spicoli, when you master (your vs you're), come give me some life lessons.  In the meantime, "love" doesn't pay for free soccer or anything else.  Save the unicorn speech.


----------



## Ellejustus

Great questions btw 
At what point in their careers do you identify these goats? *8th grade going into 9th*
How many of them are there in this new program? * According to Map, maybe 40 in Socal per age group.  Some of those will choose HS like my kid and others will pursue now.  We need to get the top top playing together to win gold*
Do you take goats who want to be in the program or those that are identified?  *Only those who can hang*
Who does the identification?  *Someone other than dads, corrupted Docs and coaches.  Also, those who select cant have any affiliations to a club or any way of making kickbacks easy.  High standards of results a must. *
Who is going to pay? *US Govt and sponsors.  Don;t tell me we kan't find some money out of the $6,000,000,000,000 their proposing*
Where is this program based?  *Four areas.  Socal, somewhere in Texas, East coast and somewhere else that the experts think is good.  Four areas with four YNT teams.  Forget pricking just one excpet for U17 and U20 world cup.  *

The USA is 3.8 million square miles. CA is 164K, TX 267K. *So?*

England is 50K square miles, Germany 140K, Spain 195K, France 250K, Italy 120K. Together 755K, about 20% of the USA in size.* So?*

Goats in USA going to have to travel a lot, or be residential, or come together periodically which sort of defeats the purpose.  *It's a hell of lot better than seeing grown ass mama bears storm across the field because little Sally didn;t get to play and grandma and grandpa drove all the way from freaking SD to long beach to watch her sit on the bench and stair at the grass.  Mama bear was bragging on Facebook how awesome Sally had developed.  However, she saw zero minutes.  Sally's parents were super rich and donated to all sorts money to the club.  When I saw this crap go down first year of this GDA league, i knew the top top goats were getting used.*


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

The government already pays for enough... with our tax dollars.  The government has no money, Spicoli.  Sponsors can pay for it or you can pay for it.  The rest of us pay for our kids... so can you.


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## EOTL

The Outlaw said:


> You can play soccer for a low cost in the U.S.  The better soccer you want, the more you pay for it, just like everything else in life.  Better the neighborhood... better the car... etc.  Soccer is affordable for those that want to play.


Let’s assume I’m a privileged white male who wants to do “my part” to remedy centuries of racial inequality. Why would I put my money and/or time into making girls youth soccer more affordable, rather than putting it into something that is far more likely to make a positive impact on a greater number of people, like primary education or social welfare? Even if I put it into youth sports, why soccer? Why not help open the door for minorities to participate in even more elitist sports like lacrosse or equestrian? 

If the total cost of dues and travel in GDA costs $10,000, why should I be donating that money so one girl can fly all over the country to play teams worse than ones down the street? Wouldn’t it be a better use of that money to pay for every single instrument in a high school band, the algebra textbooks for at least 3 classrooms, or 25% of the annual salary for a kindergarten teacher in Mississippi?

It seems to me that subsidizing youth girls soccer is the absolute worst possible way to promote equality in the U.S.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> The government already pays for enough... with our tax dollars.  The government has no money, Spicoli.  Sponsors can pay for it or you can pay for it.  The rest of us pay for our kids... so can you.


The Govt has no money is first thing you siad right today.  That doesn;t mean that can't print as much as they want as were as seeing. I have no time for this wasteful spending but I think the girls deserve some too.  Hows that????


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> Let’s assume I’m a privileged white male who wants to do “my part” to remedy centuries of racial inequality. Why would I put my money and/or time into making girls youth soccer more affordable, rather than putting it into something that is far more likely to make a positive impact on a greater number of people, like primary education or social welfare? Even if I put it into youth sports, why soccer? Why not help open the door for minorities to participate in even more elitist sports like lacrosse or equestrian?
> 
> If the total cost of dues and travel in GDA costs $10,000, why should I be donating that money so one girl can fly all over the country to play teams worse than ones down the street? Wouldn’t it be a better use of that money to pay for every single instrument in a high school band, the algebra textbooks for at least 3 classrooms, or 25% of the annual salary for a kindergarten teacher in Mississippi?
> 
> It seems to me that subsidizing youth girls soccer is the absolute worst possible way to promote equality in the U.S.


The leagues can;t do it.  Do you trust all these leaders in soccer?  Again, save the the top top from this politically nightmare where pay to play is the game in town.  Again, we might be talking about 100 full time players in each age group.  That can;t cost that much.  Come on now, their throwing so much money around right now it's better to cough and tell your boss you feel Corona coming on then go to work.  America is changed for good.  I'm learning the game and I'm positioned very well.  I needed some luck and by God I got me some


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> The Govt has no money is first thing you siad right today.  That doesn;t mean thAat can't print as much as they want as were as seeing. I have no time for this wasteful spending but I think the girls deserve some too.  Hows that????


We're printing money because of political correctness now.  What's the point of giving street bums more cash?  So they can drink, shoot and shit more on the sidewalk?  What's the point of wiping away college debt for those that made bad decisions?  So everyone else can pick up the tab even though we paid for our own college?  What about next year?  The year after that?  Who pays for that college debt?  Money doesn't solve problems.  All this warm and fuzzy bullshit does it prolong the inevitable.  Soccer clubs have scholarship programs.  If yours doesn't, ask why.  Maybe it's because your DOC makes $200k a year.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> You can play soccer for a low cost in the U.S.  The better soccer you want, the more you pay for it, just like everything else in life.  Better the neighborhood... better the car... etc.  Soccer is affordable for those that want to play.


Okay...but there are several poor kids in the USA that don’t know whether or not they want to play because soccer is not in their communities.  My friends heckle me more than you about my kid playing soccer because soccer has an image problem in much of America.  Many Americans think soccer is for weirdos and those that can’t hack it in real American sports (ie football, hockey, basketball, boxing & baseball).  Why would a kid want to play that?

Maybe soccers image in the USA is a huge part of the problem.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

EOTL said:


> Let’s assume I’m a privileged white male who wants to do “my part” to remedy centuries of racial inequality. Why would I put my money and/or time into making girls youth soccer more affordable, rather than putting it into something that is far more likely to make a positive impact on a greater number of people, like primary education or social welfare? Even if I put it into youth sports, why soccer? Why not help open the door for minorities to participate in even more elitist sports like lacrosse or equestrian?
> 
> If the total cost of dues and travel in GDA costs $10,000, why should I be donating that money so one girl can fly all over the country to play teams worse than ones down the street? Wouldn’t it be a better use of that money to pay for every single instrument in a high school band, the algebra textbooks for at least 3 classrooms, or 25% of the annual salary for a kindergarten teacher in Mississippi?
> 
> It seems to me that subsidizing youth girls soccer is the absolute worst possible way to promote equality in the U.S.


A team flying from Irvine to Portland for a game is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard.  Jesus Christ... social media has made this nation the dumbest around.  Whatever puts you in a collar'd sweat jacket with a pretend, USWNT logo on it, for facebook bragging rights.  And we wonder why the clubs do what they do.  Well, we let them.  Half those 14-year olds won't be playing at all in 3 years.  Half of those will burn out... another 10% will have knee injuries and the rest will eventually figure out there's 30 spots in the national program and thousands of spots on college rosters.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> We're printing money because of political correctness now.  What's the point of giving street bums more cash?  So they can drink, shoot and shit more on the sidewalk?  What's the point of wiping away college debt for those that made bad decisions?  So everyone else can pick up the tab even though we paid for our own college?  What about next year?  The year after that?  Who pays for that college debt?  Money doesn't solve problems.  All this warm and fuzzy bullshit does it prolong the inevitable.  Soccer clubs have scholarship programs.  If yours doesn't, ask why.  Maybe it's because your DOC makes $200k a year.


Girls are street bums?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> Okay...but there are several poor kids in the USA that don’t know whether or not they want to play because soccer is not in their communities.  My friends heckle me more than you about my kid playing soccer because soccer has an image problem in much of America.  Many Americans think soccer is for weirdos and those that can’t hack it in real American sports (ie football, hockey, basketball, boxing & baseball).  Why would a kid want to play that?
> 
> Maybe soccers image in the USA is a huge part of the problem.


You live in the east bay.  What soccer image problem?  You're in 1 of 2 soccer hotbeds in NorCal and it's been that way for decades.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Girls are street bums?


No, little girls are not street bums.  I'm talking about homeless people... many of whom just choose that lifestyle.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> A team flying from Irvine to Portland for a game is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard.  Jesus Christ... social media has made this nation the dumbest around.  Whatever puts you in a collar'd sweat jacket with a pretend, USWNT logo on it, for facebook bragging rights.  And we wonder why the clubs do what they do.  Well, we let them.  Half those 14-year olds won't be playing at all in 3 years.  Half of those will burn out... another 10% will have knee injuries and the rest will eventually figure out there's 30 spots in the national program and thousands of spots on college rosters.


I agree with you 100% on this take.  I was at the grocery store last year and this G D A dad was talking so much Kool aid I puked. It was so hard to hear as my kid was kicked out of the same league because she choice wisely and her old man let her make the choose.  This dad was saying,  "My little June, oh my, she has deve;loped into a find world class soccer player and a world class human.  She just got back from Florida where she played in one game and scouts saw it." This same June walked around campus with her DA logo and looked down on all the ECNL and rec players at high school.  Let me just say June is glad to be home and not at school.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> No, little girls are not street bums.  I'm talking about homeless people... many of whom just choose that lifestyle.


But because I wasn;t wise enough like all the other smart GDA dads It's my fault that my dd was around some bums?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I agree with you 100% on this take.  I was at the grocery store last year and this G D A dad was talking so much Kool aid I puked. It was so hard to hear as my kid was kicked out of the same league because she choice wisely and her old man let her make the choose.  This dad was saying,  "My little June, oh my, she has deve;loped into a find world class soccer player and a world class human.  She just got back from Florida where she played in one game and scouts saw it." This same June walked around campus with her DA logo and looked down on all the ECNL and rec players at high school.  Let me just say June is glad to be home and not at school.


The DA is simply selling the college experience to 15-year olds.  Put on your team outfits, sit in an airport together for 2 ours, fly to Seattle for a game on Saturday, spend the night in a hotel, go throw a fish, sit in the jaccuzzi with teammates you like, have an expensive dinner, play in Portland on Sunday and fly home.  Um... isn't that what Stanford and UCLA do?  You just get to do it early and for a small fee.  Ridiculous.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> A team flying from Irvine to Portland for a game is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard.  Jesus Christ... social media has made this nation the dumbest around.  Whatever puts you in a collar'd sweat jacket with a pretend, USWNT logo on it, for facebook bragging rights.  And we wonder why the clubs do what they do.  Well, we let them.  Half those 14-year olds won't be playing at all in 3 years.  Half of those will burn out... another 10% will have knee injuries and the rest will eventually figure out there's 30 spots in the national program and thousands of spots on college rosters.


How about the B team for the A team flying from San Jose to OC JWA and playing the #1 team in socal A team ((allegedy) and not even telling the top team your pulling this stunt.  7-0.  I would not support Govt help with this BS league. Heck know.!!! Top A teams for top top goats playing all the time, yes, we have some extra money for the girls.  We can hire a czar to manage all the funds and make sure the funds go to the girls and that the girls are being treated fair with no grooming going on and most importantly, their respected and are having fun.  What is so hard to get your ahead around that idea dude?


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> The DA is simply selling the college experience to 15-year olds.  Put on your team outfits, sit in an airport together for 2 ours, fly to Seattle for a game on Saturday, spend the night in a hotel, play in Portland on Sunday and fly home.  Um... isn't that what Stanford and UCLA do?  You just get to do it early and for a small fee.  Ridiculous.


Bingo!!!!  It was a bait and switch and we all deserve a refund


----------



## MacDre

EOTL said:


> Let’s assume I’m a privileged white male who wants to do “my part” to remedy centuries of racial inequality. Why would I put my money and/or time into making girls youth soccer more affordable, rather than putting it into something that is far more likely to make a positive impact on a greater number of people, like primary education or social welfare? Even if I put it into youth sports, why soccer? Why not help open the door for minorities to participate in even more elitist sports like lacrosse or equestrian?
> 
> If the total cost of dues and travel in GDA costs $10,000, why should I be donating that money so one girl can fly all over the country to play teams worse than ones down the street? Wouldn’t it be a better use of that money to pay for every single instrument in a high school band, the algebra textbooks for at least 3 classrooms, or 25% of the annual salary for a kindergarten teacher in Mississippi?
> 
> It seems to me that subsidizing youth girls soccer is the absolute worst possible way to promote equality in the U.S.


We should seek equality in areas of life and community.


----------



## Kicker4Life

sdb said:


> From what I've read, 55-70% of ACL injuries are classified as non-contact.


Thx!  2/3rds of my ACL blowouts were contact.  The non contact was 20 min into the first half.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> But because I wasn;t wise enough like all the other smart GDA dads It's my fault that my dd was around some bums?


You need to let the homeless bums thing go, Spicoli.  Stick to the DA screwing you and your kid.


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> Bingo!!!!  It was a bait and switch and we all deserve a refund


I want my freaking time paid for.  You can keep the free ride


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> We should seek equality in areas of life and community.


No, we should seek equal opportunity.  There will never be equality because people choose differently.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> You need to let the homeless bums thing go, Spicoli.  Stick to the DA screwing you and your kid.


I will, thanks for the advice.


----------



## Ellejustus

This is good debating.  Come out of the closet and debate.  Be real and be ready to be wrong


----------



## sdb

Kicker4Life said:


> Thx!  2/3rds of my ACL blowouts were contact.  The non contact was 20 min into the first half.


I've always thought that you were an outlier in every sense of the word. ;-)


----------



## Kicker4Life

sdb said:


> I've always thought that you were an outlier in every sense of the word. ;-)


Touché


----------



## MacDre

sdb said:


> Honest question: is club soccer free in Europe and Mexico at every level? Or just at the professional level? For female players as well as male players? If not free, where are the breaks?
> 
> Liga MX seems to be doing the best job of creating at least an equal number of top female teams as male teams (both 18). EPL is 20 vs. 12 for women, Ligue 1 the same, La Liga 20 mens vs. 16 for women.
> 
> Given all the riches we have as a country, or at least did until the last few weeks, I'd like to see us tackle the problem of homelessness and our education system first, then take on inequality in youth sports and the subset of club soccer...


No it’s not free but it’s lower cost and a lot more accessible because almost everyone plays or is a fan.

I’m starting to think a huge part of the problem with soccer is that it has a looser image.  I mean who wants to watch or play a looser sport?
My kid introduced my entire community to soccer.  We had no idea.  Maybe USSF needs a different PR firm.

I completely agree about those other issues being a priority.  I wont elaborate because @Outlaw would probably have a heart attack.


----------



## MakeAPlay

The Outlaw said:


> When was the last time you heard Hispanic or Asian coaches complain about jobs?  In fact, when was the FIRST time you heard it?  Trubisky was drafted before Mahomes because the draft is a best guess.  It's the same reason Tom Brady went where he went.  It's the same reason Vince Young was drafted before Jay Cutler.  It's the same reason the Raiders were stupid enough to draft Jamarcus Russell.
> 
> Bitch to the GMs?  Why?  They weren't the ones whining about political correctness.  They don't want to be forced to interview someone.  They don't want to insult minority candidates with quotas.  And I don't have a problem with the best players being selected.  I have a problem with black people whining there aren't enough black coaches when 65% of the league is black.  I have a problem with black people whining about 30 NFL coaching jobs when 75% of the NBA is black.  You can deflect all you want but those are the facts.  I want the best VP candidate but Dementia Joe promises, 7 months ahead of time, that he's going to partner with a woman.  Why?  Because it's politically correct?  LMAO!  Give me your source about "black offenders more likely..."  I love hearing all these "facts" thrown around with no source... yet none of you challenge my numbers, provided by FBI crime stats, because you know I can back them and you don't want the truth.  You push the victim narrative because it suits you... yet it's not factual.  Post your source.  I don't have a problem with black people.  I have a problem with black people being the perpetual victim when statistical facts show otherwise.


What statistics are you talking about?  So you think that a league with 65% black players should only have 2 black coaches?  Let me guess you also probably think that it isn't odd that most women's soccer teams are coached by men.  You are probably loving the response to COVID-19 that your boy is putting together too.


----------



## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> No it’s not free but it’s lower cost and a lot more accessible because almost everyone plays or is a fan.
> 
> I’m starting to think a huge part of the problem with soccer is that it has a looser image.  I mean who wants to watch or play a looser sport?
> My kid introduced my entire community to soccer.  We had no idea.  Maybe USSF needs a different PR firm.
> 
> I completely agree about those other issues being a priority.  I wont elaborate because @Outlaw would probably have a heart attack.


I spent three years running around in a circle getting the run around.  I just wanted pure competition.  This is not sport like I know sport to be.  Jim Rome is right.  I keep trying to believe in soccer but it keeps letting me down every single time here in the states.  It's the dads running the sport bro. They got them claws in the money and won;t let go. However, with all that is going on the claws are getting weak and others now see a way out. It's going down....." That means today that more meetings are taking place in the spin room.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> You live in the east bay.  What soccer image problem?  You're in 1 of 2 soccer hotbeds in NorCal and it's been that way for decades.


Not in my circles.  It’s an image thing.  Soccer is for squares.  I took my kid to an NFL event and she had on a Paul Pogba Jersey...everyone thought Pogba was her nickname.


----------



## VegasParent

The Outlaw said:


> The DA is simply selling the college experience to 15-year olds.  Put on your team outfits, sit in an airport together for 2 ours, fly to Seattle for a game on Saturday, spend the night in a hotel, go throw a fish, sit in the jaccuzzi with teammates you like, have an expensive dinner, play in Portland on Sunday and fly home.  Um... isn't that what Stanford and UCLA do?  You just get to do it early and for a small fee.  Ridiculous.


ECNL teams do this too. Maybe not SoCal teams but look at the Midwest conference. Lots of distance between clubs.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MacDre said:


> Not in my circles.  It’s an image thing.  Soccer is for squares.  I took my kid to an NFL event and she had on a Paul Pogba Jersey...everyone thought Pogba was her nickname.


Unfortunately there in lies a lot of the reasoning that soccer in the US isn’t as profitable thus allowing clubs to invest in fully funded academies for all.

not enough revenue.


----------



## Ellejustus

I found this online from a guy named Tom.  Sounds like Kicker & Lastman
Thoughts after you read this please????

About 10 years ago the US Soccer Federation decided to start a new program on the boys side, the US Development Academy. There were many factors contributing to such a large undertaking, but in a nutshell, the United States youth soccer infrastructure was broken. We had a system that was more focused on competitions and winning versus truly developing players *((Winning for the top top players is how you make part of the cream)) *and providing a healthy environment for players to grow. *((Not all of us had a healthy environment))* For brevity purposes I will spare you my belief on how we got there *((Gee, thanks Tom.  However, I went ahead and spared little detail from my experience with all of Socal)),* the important part to understand is we were there. Large club’s and tournaments dominated the soccer landscape. Players were playing 40, 50, or more games a season and experiencing training to game ratios far below what anyone would agree is healthy.  Competition and winning ruled, player development was a distant also-ran.  *(so?)*

Enter the Development Academy. (*(To take out ECNL and steal their Elite players))* To develop the program, US Soccer staff traveled the world and used top European and South American professional youth academies as their bench marks to create a US model that put each player’s growth above all else.  *(( I knew yet))* The boys side of youth soccer now had a top down development platform to model proper club behavior and player development best practices *((Oh really Tom. We suck at soccer.  All my guy friends in America have let this country down.  The girls are the winners in soccer)) * I think even US Soccer was surprised by the quick acceptance and early success of the program. *((I don;t think so)) *For those of us who spent time in youth soccer and were witnesses to the prior madness, it was a refreshing and almost surreal change. After just a couple of years the only question on our minds was what about the girls?* ((Yes, what about the girls?))*

Shortly thereafter the Elite Club National League (ECNL) sprang up, arguably in response to the vacancy the US Soccer Federation left by not providing the same opportunity on the girls side. The ECNL quickly became ‘the’ place for the top girls clubs in the country to compete. Well intentioned, like many youth soccer entities, it morphed into a giant money-making, competition structure. Simply put, the organization’s self-interest didn’t align with the best interests of the players.* ((Wow!!!))*

I’m sure there will be many who would argue this point, but in my opinion the ultimate litmus test occurred recently when US Soccer finally announced the start of the Development Academy on the girls side, slated for the fall of 2017.  The timing of that announcement was incredibly telling.  Less than a year from the US Women winning the World Cup, US Soccer unequivocally stated that player development on the girls side needed a significant overhaul.  The ECNL now had a tough decision to make. They could support the Federation or compete with it. A meeting took place between the two organizations to discuss common ground and collaboration. I was not privy to that meeting, but shortly thereafter the ECNL did NOT announce its support and instead decided to expand the ECNL to the boys side. The message was clear, the lines had been drawn, pick your side. *((War!!!))*

This situation perfectly exemplifies why US Soccer needs to be involved in the development of our youth players. It can’t be about the power and money youth soccer entities are capable of generating.  It can’t be about winning games and Got Soccer points. It needs to be about the girls and their growth as soccer players and people.  Like the Boys Development Academy, the Girls Development Academy will have guidelines for the number of starts for each player and the number of trainings per week.  The GDA will only allow only 1 match per day with matches occurring no more than 2 days in a row.  They will set strict coaching license requirements for staff and they will charge nothing for showcase events.  Every club will be observed and evaluated on a regular basis and US Soccer scouts will be in attendance regularly to find the next youth national team players.  This is a development structure designed with the players in mind, (not a competition structure) and it is long overdue. The Development Academy programs on both sides and the new mandates for birth year age groups and small sided games are examples of US Soccer taking their rightful place as our sport’s governing body and taking responsibility for youth soccer in America. I for one am ecstatic. (Oh, I see that Tom)

Locally the WNY Flash have just been accepted into the ENCL. It will be interesting to see if they decide to move forward with it. A betting man would put his money on US Soccer winning this battle and making the Girls Development Academy the top level of girls soccer in the United States. US Soccer has already committed the resources to the GDA and they are fully behind the program just like they have been on the boys side for years.  US Soccer is in charge of the scouting mechanism for our girls youth national teams, the US Soccer Technical Director April Heinrichs and the Women’s National Team Coach Jill Ellis are both behind the GDA and were part of its creation.  I am confident the GDA is the right place for our players.  Empire United will be submitting our application for the Girl’s Development Academy in early May.  When you look at our player production history, our coaching, leadership and facilities, we believe we have a compelling case for admission.  We have already established the GSA program and will continue to run that program through 2016/17 so we are well prepared for 2017 in the hope that our goal will be realized to become an inaugural member of the Girls Development Academy.

As always, please reach out if you have any questions.* ((How do you feel now Tom??))*



Tom


----------



## MacDre

Kicker4Life said:


> Unfortunately there in lies a lot of the reasoning that soccer in the US isn’t as profitable thus allowing clubs to invest in fully funded academies for all.
> 
> not enough revenue.


Correct.  But it’s an easy fix.  Get a few rappers, football, and basketball players to endorse soccer.  
Soccer is the best foundational ball sport...all kids should play even if they want to play football or basketball eventually.
It would behoove the folks at USSF to figure out how to reach my community since we tend to dictate popular culture.  If soccer becomes mainstream in my community then it will become mainstream in the USA.


----------



## ToonArmy

And the football players image was a bunch of dumb meathead jocks. Back at my high school both football and soccer team was Mexican kids difference was most the football players were 2nd or 3rd generation in America with parents that grew up here too spoke English and raised kids on football and baseball and the soccer players were first generations parents not speaking English raising their kids in soccer. I wouldn't say they were looked at as squares just more like less than them, more poor, less educated even though both sides were poor and went to the same f'd up schools. Everybody's circle is different. I don't think image is a huge problem for soccer but maybe it is in your circle and good for you and your daughter for being secure enough to not give a F what they think or say

Good point made by Kicker. Maybe it is a bigger problem


----------



## ToonArmy




----------



## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> Correct.  But it’s an easy fix.  Get a few rappers, football, and basketball players to endorse soccer.
> Soccer is the best foundational ball sport...all kids should play even if they want to play football or basketball eventually.
> It would behoove the folks at USSF to figure out how to reach my community since we tend to dictate popular culture.  If soccer becomes mainstream in my community then it will become mainstream in the USA.


I think the best athletes are in your comminty.  Not saying some white girls won;t make it but........all the girls need to be trained at an earlier age too.  I hear some of these rich folks talk dude.  A black girl will show up out of know where around 12 or 13 years old to practice.  First day of practice little Sally realizes she ins;t the fastest on the team anymore.  Mama bear tells the other moms that Sally will now go to CM position because she is better skilled then the black girl who just started playing soccer.  Plus Sally mom thinks the CM position is suited more for the "smarter, more intelligent player." Reminds me of Jimmy the Greek.  At least Jimmy spoke from the heart and was honest with how he truly felt.  How come I don;t see more black girls playing CM?  Not saying at all their shouldn;t be, I'm saying I should be seeing more by now. It seems like little princesses Sally gets that spot no matter what.  My dd killed it his year at CM in HS.  She shot out of the back and went on fast breaks, dishing the rock like Nash or pulling up for a left hander shot when she's really right footed...lol.


----------



## MacDre

ToonArmy said:


> And the football players image was a bunch of dumb meathead jocks. Back at my high school both football and soccer team was Mexican kids difference was most the football players were 2nd or 3rd generation in America with parents that grew up here too spoke English and raised kids on football and baseball and the soccer players were first generations parents not speaking English raising their kids in soccer. I wouldn't say they were looked at as squares just more like less than them, more poor, less educated even though both sides were poor and went to the same f'd up schools. Everybody's circle is different. I don't think image is a huge problem for soccer but maybe it is in your circle and good for you and your daughter for being secure enough to not give a F what they think or say
> 
> Good point made by Kicker. Maybe it is a bigger problem


Why would football players be seen as dumb meatheads?


----------



## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> I think the best athletes are in your comminty.  Not saying some white girls won;t make it but........all the girls need to be trained at an earlier age too.  I hear some of these rich folks talk dude.  A black girl will show up out of know where around 12 or 13 years old to practice.  First day of practice little Sally realizes she ins;t the fastest on the team anymore.  Mama bear tells the other moms that Sally will now go to CM position because she is better skilled then the black girl who just started playing soccer.  Plus Sally mom thinks the CM position is suited more for the "smarter, more intelligent player." Reminds me of Jimmy the Greek.  At least Jimmy spoke from the heart and was honest with how he truly felt.  How come I don;t see more black girls playing CM?  Not saying at all their shouldn;t be, I'm saying I should be seeing more by now. It seems like little princesses Sally gets that spot no matter what.  My dd killed it his year at CM in HS.  She shot out of the back and went on fast breaks, dishing the rock like Nash or pulling up for a left hander shot when she's really right footed...lol.


He spent the night with Gene Upshaw after those comments.  Oh boy, I gots to know how that went for Jimmy....lolo


----------



## MacDre

ToonArmy said:


> View attachment 6763


Funny.  In da hood we sometimes wear jerseys because they match our shoes.  I’m not sure this is an endorsement.


----------



## MacDre

ToonArmy said:


> View attachment 6763


Have you seen coach snoop coaching soccer?  Or football?


----------



## MacDre

ToonArmy said:


> And the football players image was a bunch of dumb meathead jocks. Back at my high school both football and soccer team was Mexican kids difference was most the football players were 2nd or 3rd generation in America with parents that grew up here too spoke English and raised kids on football and baseball and the soccer players were first generations parents not speaking English raising their kids in soccer. I wouldn't say they were looked at as squares just more like less than them, more poor, less educated even though both sides were poor and went to the same f'd up schools. Everybody's circle is different. I don't think image is a huge problem for soccer but maybe it is in your circle and good for you and your daughter for being secure enough to not give a F what they think or say
> 
> Good point made by Kicker. Maybe it is a bigger problem


High school players don’t influence popular culture.  They’re influenced by popular culture.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MakeAPlay said:


> What statistics are you talking about?  So you think that a league with 65% black players should only have 2 black coaches?  Let me guess you also probably think that it isn't odd that most women's soccer teams are coached by men.  You are probably loving the response to COVID-19 that your boy is putting together too.


I gave you the stats, Map.  I think, when you're 13% of the population, and you maintain 65% of the jobs in the league, it's bullshit to insist teams interview you for a coaching job.  Nevermind the 'insult' component.  I don't care if 20 of the 30 head coaches are black.  I don't care if there's 2.  The job should go to the best candidate, as determined by the organization, but to demand an interview because you're somehow being overlooked or blackballed (pun intended) is bullshit. 

My boy?  Who said I love Trump?  I think the liberal party is a bigger disgrace than anything Trump has said or done.  That's why he'll win again.  ANd frankly, there isn't anyone doing any better.  Cuomo is a fucking clown in NY and Gavin is a Pelosi phony.
Aside from that, tip of the cap to your daughter and her success.  She's one of the few that slayed both heads of the dragon.  Hopefully they play soon.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> Not in my circles.  It’s an image thing.  Soccer is for squares.  I took my kid to an NFL event and she had on a Paul Pogba Jersey...everyone thought Pogba was her nickname.


Yeah but that's not a surprise about Pogba.  If they knew was a diva he was, you could put him in a Terrell Owens jersey and it's the same dude.  I don't know what circles you run in but up and down the Stanford roster... Cal... Santa Clara... east bay kids all over the place.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

VegasParent said:


> ECNL teams do this too. Maybe not SoCal teams but look at the Midwest conference. Lots of distance between clubs.


I can see that.  But in NorCal and SoCal, you can get 5 great games within 1-2 hours by car.  Flying to another state is fucking ridiculous.


----------



## MyDaughtersAKeeper

Ellejustus said:


> @MyDaughtersAKeeper Hello, anyone there?  I re-read your intimidation threat PM again this morning.  I had a vision in my dream last night about why someone would PM something like that and who would do such a thing.  What club is this person with?  Is his/her/both dd truly A Keeper?  Do they know me personally or do they know others at the club that knew me?  I need to confess to everyone that my answers to many of my "Hey, what's going on" in Socal Soccer get revealed to me in my sleep.  I wake up and jump out of bed and race to my computer and look for new PMs.  In July and August of last year, I was hated and laughed at.  People laughed at me when I said the GDA will be no more.  "Hahahahahah" they said.  "Ignore the fool"  Listen all you fathers out their with a teenage girl.  When you treat the WNT as second and then treat the top 13 year olds like they did, it's easy to predict failure.  Woman are on the rise and have a voice in America.  Like I said before, my mother was adopted in 1919 three times until she was finally wanted at 2 years old. She in turn had four of her own and adopted or fostered 8 other little kids.  That is what you call serving others. My wife is my Angel and my dd is my Angel girl.  My son is just steady and chill and he and I are best pals.  He comes home from SDSU bummed out.  I talked with him about how you need to make the most of all this.  He get's a delivery job and made $75 working 3 hours last night, all for shopping for others. He told me this is all working out like you said daddy.  Little did he know I've been a little scared of this country and how it will respond to adversity and what will really happen.  I live each day as if it's my last.  At least with me you know where I stand.


I have not logged into the forum in awhile.  I am still here, and I just responded to the DMs you sent me.  My daughter is in fact a keeper.  
I don't know you aside from what you posted.  I wish you and your daughter nothing but the best of luck on and off the field.


----------



## Ellejustus

MyDaughtersAKeeper said:


> I have not logged into the forum in awhile.  I am still here, and I just responded to the DMs you sent me.  My daughter is in fact a keeper.
> I don't know you aside from what you posted.  I wish you and your daughter nothing but the best of luck on and off the field.


All good.  TY for the kind PM and TY for correcting the record.  I feel better and way less spooked or as some would say, "Paranoid."  I did here that some powerful people run soccer so you never know.  Please everyone else, I know you think I;m stupid and dumb and one big rambler, keep those comments private and to yourself.  Thx


----------



## ToonArmy

Only point I attempted to make was everyone perception of soccer players is different from your hood to mine but I get what your saying didn't get it in the first post and I posted the pic of Snoop thought it was funny. he actually is a soccer fan talks about it Charles Haley Chauncey billips daughters play college soccer Chad Johnson odel grew up playing I wouldn't say any of that is an endorsement or anything enough to reach the youth in Vallejo. If you never heard the stupid stereotype of football players been meathead jocks and don't get that I'm not saying that it's anything but a stupid stereotype as is soccer players being squares then whatever I got no response but if you were trying to go somewhere with me on that then  you don't know me


----------



## Ellejustus

I'm proud of everyone today for jumping into the debates.  Were here in our home for a long ass time and we need to help those up at the top make better and fairer decisions for all of us regarding soccer.  Full time mask wearing now if you step outside, No parks, beaches or trails now.  I guess we will all see how the goats do without 7 months of soccer.


----------



## Ellejustus

Youth sports got out of hand everyone and were on lock down until God sees fit.  Repent of your nonsense so we can get back to sports.  Enjoy the evening with your family tonight, tomorrow night and every night thereafter for a long time.  We have family every night now.  Games, hikes, walk and and new game were playing against my dd.  She has to juggle and we yell at her and try and distracted her and say, "miss it, miss it, miss it and "watch out"  It's hard for her. We can;t touch her but we act like we will slap her in the face.  Only 10 in a row.  Tomorrow's another day.  I told my dd based on all the info I got on the forum all she has to do is master the find art of juggling and she might get Goathood


----------



## Roostah

Kicker4Life said:


> Thx!  2/3rds of my ACL blowouts were contact.  The non contact was 20 min into the first half.


Most of the ACL injuries are non-contact and are the ones that we should be looking to reduce.  If a 300 lbs lineman rolls up into your knee, there is really nothing that would have prevented that injury.  The way I think about fatigue and ACL non contact injuries is that a tear usually requires tremendous force being placed on the joint.  Typically players can generate the most force when they are fresh.  Also can be seen in our daily experience that many girls that tear their ACL are also explosive players.  Does fatigue cause some injuries and can ACL be torn late in a half, absolutely, but just pointing out that fatigue isn’t correlated with ACL injuries.


----------



## Kicker4Life

MacDre said:


> Correct.  But it’s an easy fix.  Get a few rappers, football, and basketball players to endorse soccer.
> Soccer is the best foundational ball sport...all kids should play even if they want to play football or basketball eventually.
> It would behoove the folks at USSF to figure out how to reach my community since we tend to dictate popular culture.  If soccer becomes mainstream in my community then it will become mainstream in the USA.


NBA, NFL, MLB dominate.  As you say, soccer is for squares.  How does one change “your communities” mindset towards the game?


----------



## Kicker4Life

Roostah said:


> Most of the ACL injuries are non-contact and are the ones that we should be looking to reduce.  If a 300 lbs lineman rolls up into your knee, there is really nothing that would have prevented that injury.  The way I think about fatigue and ACL non contact injuries is that a tear usually requires tremendous force being placed on the joint.  Typically players can generate the most force when they are fresh.  Also can be seen in our daily experience that many girls that tear their ACL are also explosive players.  Does fatigue cause some injuries and can ACL be torn late in a half, absolutely, but just pointing out that fatigue isn’t correlated with ACL injuries.


It is also about strength balancing.  Fatigue typically accentuates those imbalances this causing undue stress in ligaments and tendons because of the toruque. In legs this stress point is the knee.  Typically a quad dominate person creates overextension of the knee (the range the ACL is responsible for) and when fatigued it can’t protect the knee as much.  Proper strength balancing can have a massive impact on protecting one from the likelihood of a non-contact ACL injury.

I won’t claim to be an expert, but I have had 3 ACL reconstructions (1st non contact, I blame wearing screw ins for the first time and the last 2 were contact injuries). Spent years (overall) in rehab and working with Orthopedic doctors as well as independent research. I learned a lot about the mechanics, especially as it relates to soccer. Take of it what you will.


----------



## Ellejustus

*The future soccer mask.  Logos & school colors extra cost.  I have a friend who makes this stuff in Irvine.  I bought into his private company 6 months ago.  I had no idea it would blow up this fast.*


----------



## Ellejustus

Well Said Evan Gettis.  A good cheater should be good enough to say sorry for his cheating.  


> “Everybody wants to be the best player in the f-----g world, man … and *we cheated* that, for sure, and we obviously *cheated baseball* and *cheated fans*,” Gattis said on the podcast.* “Fans felt duped.* I feel bad for fans.”
> “I’m not asking for sympathy or anything like that. If our punishment is being hated by everybody forever, just like, whatever. I don’t know what should be done, but something had to f-----g be done. I do agree with that, big-time. I do think it’s good for baseball that we’re cleaning it up. … And I understand that it’s not f-----g good enough to say sorry. I get it.”


Gattis also pointed out that not every player was on board with the sign-stealing. But not much was done to stop it.



> "It got out of f-----g control," Gattis said. "That's why I'm actually glad that the objective truth is out there. We f----d up, and it was not right. It was wrong. It's a little easier to see it being f----d up afterwards.
> *"Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy we won the World Series … But once that all fades, now it's kind of different. That happened and we cheated. You can't feel that good about it."*


----------



## MacDre

Kicker4Life said:


> NBA, NFL, MLB dominate.  As you say, soccer is for squares.  How does one change “your communities” mindset towards the game?


If athletes and entertainers endorse soccer and make it cool kids will want to participate.  My hood sees soccer as foreign and not for them.  USSF has not done a good job of informing my hood about the accomplishments of Pele, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Neymar or damn near the entire French National Team.  So they don’t relate, and know nothing about soccer and form stereotypes.

If mothers are given the option of their kids playing soccer prior to turning 14 most will choose soccer over pewee football. Many of the kids will also continue with soccer and/or become lifelong fans.

I see Drake at Toronto Games.  I see e40 at Warriors games.  I see Jay Z at Lakers games etc.  who endorses MLS or USSF?  Is there anyone with any SWAG in MLS or USSF?

Yep.  Bland.  No Flavor.  No Swag.  Boring.  That’s the problem.  Image is everything.  Who wants to associate with an inferior product?


----------



## Kicker4Life

MacDre said:


> If athletes and entertainers endorse soccer and make it cool kids will want to participate.  My hood sees soccer as foreign and not for them.  USSF has not done a good job of informing my hood about the accomplishments of Pele, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Neymar or damn near the entire French National Team.  So they don’t relate, and know nothing about soccer and form stereotypes.
> 
> If mothers are given the option of their kids playing soccer prior to turning 14 most will choose soccer over pewee football. Many of the kids will also continue with soccer and/or become lifelong fans.
> 
> I see Drake at Toronto Games.  I see e40 at Warriors games.  I see Jay Z at Lakers games etc.  who endorses MLS or USSF?  Is there anyone with any SWAG in MLS or USSF?
> 
> Yep.  Bland.  No Flavor.  No Swag.  Boring.  That’s the problem.  Image is everything.  Who wants to associate with an inferior product?


See soccer in the US is in its cultural infancy.  As we see teams like Atlanta United and LAFC market to an urban culture we will start to see a more diverse community adopt the sport.  That is the only way it will grow.
Everywhere else in the world, soccer is a major part of the culture....every economic aspect of it.


----------



## Ellejustus




----------



## gotothebushes

MacDre said:


> If athletes and entertainers endorse soccer and make it cool kids will want to participate.  My hood sees soccer as foreign and not for them.  USSF has not done a good job of informing my hood about the accomplishments of Pele, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Neymar or damn near the entire French National Team.  So they don’t relate, and know nothing about soccer and form stereotypes.
> 
> If mothers are given the option of their kids playing soccer prior to turning 14 most will choose soccer over pewee football. Many of the kids will also continue with soccer and/or become lifelong fans.
> 
> I see Drake at Toronto Games.  I see e40 at Warriors games.  I see Jay Z at Lakers games etc.  who endorses MLS or USSF?  Is there anyone with any SWAG in MLS or USSF?
> 
> Yep.  Bland.  No Flavor.  No Swag.  Boring.  That’s the problem.  Image is everything.  Who wants to associate with an inferior product?


 Kobe was the only one I could remember who endorse soccer.


----------



## Kicker4Life

gotothebushes said:


> Kobe was the only one I could remember who endorse soccer.


Steve Nash was another.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> If athletes and entertainers endorse soccer and make it cool kids will want to participate.  My hood sees soccer as foreign and not for them.  USSF has not done a good job of informing my hood about the accomplishments of Pele, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Neymar or damn near the entire French National Team.  So they don’t relate, and know nothing about soccer and form stereotypes.
> 
> If mothers are given the option of their kids playing soccer prior to turning 14 most will choose soccer over pewee football. Many of the kids will also continue with soccer and/or become lifelong fans.
> 
> I see Drake at Toronto Games.  I see e40 at Warriors games.  I see Jay Z at Lakers games etc.  who endorses MLS or USSF?  Is there anyone with any SWAG in MLS or USSF?
> 
> Yep.  Bland.  No Flavor.  No Swag.  Boring.  That’s the problem.  Image is everything.  Who wants to associate with an inferior product?


Perhaps a fake rapper, a rapper and a former drug dealer are not the best "Swag" for the young black male in greater Oakland.  Image is everything but it shouldn't be.  What image should be is someone that worked hard and became successful without shortcuts.  Kobe endorsed soccer... to a degree.  LeBron is a fake fan frontrunner (Liverpool).  I laugh when I hear about Nipsey Hussle.  Fucking guy drives into the hood wearing 5 gold chains, driving a $150k Benz and says, "don't do what I did."  LMAO!  The image should be "look at what you can accomplish with a pair of cleats, some hard work and your natural talent".  When are rappers and/or ex-convicts that are now wealthy going to no longer be the heroes?


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> Perhaps a fake rapper, a rapper and a former drug dealer are not the best "Swag" for the young black male in greater Oakland.  Image is everything but it shouldn't be.  What image should be is someone that worked hard and became successful without shortcuts.  Kobe endorsed soccer... to a degree.  LeBron is a fake fan frontrunner (Liverpool).  I laugh when I hear about Nipsey Hussle.  Fucking guy drives into the hood wearing 5 gold chains, driving a $150k Benz and says, "don't do what I did."  LMAO!  The image should be "look at what you can accomplish with a pair of cleats, some hard work and your natural talent".  When are rappers and/or ex-convicts that are now wealthy going to no longer be the heroes?


You are stereotyping.  My hood is diverse and people have varied interest like all other communities.
Take me for example, I’m a NERD and I’m respected.  I even have a nickname:  The Computer that  Wears Tennis Shoes or Computer/Google for short.
When I was around 6 years old a lawyer came by my grandma’s house in a Rolls Royce to visit my uncle.  He let me sit in his car and briefly talked to me about education and community.  I made up my mind that day that I was gonna be a lawyer come hell or high water.




__





						Willie Gary
					

Gary, Williams, Parenti, Watson & Gary, PLLC - Willie Gary




					williegary.com


----------



## MacDre

Kicker4Life said:


> Steve Nash was another.


Also reiterates my point about how soccer should be marketed as the absolute best foundational sport.


----------



## MacDre

Kicker4Life said:


> See soccer in the US is in its cultural infancy.  As we see teams like Atlanta United and LAFC market to an urban culture we will start to see a more diverse community adopt the sport.  That is the only way it will grow.
> Everywhere else in the world, soccer is a major part of the culture....every economic aspect of it.


Bingo.  That’s what soccer is about for my family.  I want to integrate my community into soccer because I see it as another way the youth could acquire wealth that is currently being under utilized.


----------



## Ellejustus

*Fact Friday*​
Fact 1- Map is back
Fact 2- Map tells it like it is which is usually the truth, because when he speaks it hurts some but that's what the truth does.  It hurts!
Fact 3- Vanilla is the flavor of choice for SoCal Soccer
Fact 4- The Toxic Turf War of 2016 has caused damage to everyone
Fact 5- USSF owes us all an apology and a refund for misleading us to think it was for all kids, poor & rich a like, black and white and all in between
Fact 6- Macdre makes valid points and I like him.  
Fact 7- Lester (Outlaw) is whacked but I feel sorry for him and want to try and help him see the light somehow.  Law of two, sad!!!
Fact 8- The G D A League that was forced down our throats is coming to...................
Fact 9- More Big, Big changes are coming 
Fact 10- The WNT and all the woman will settle their lawsuits with the men


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> You are stereotyping.  My hood is diverse and people have varied interest like all other communities.
> Take me for example, I’m a NERD and I’m respected.  I even have a nickname:  The Computer that  Wears Tennis Shoes or Computer/Google for short.
> When I was around 6 years old a lawyer came by my grandma’s house in a Rolls Royce to visit my uncle.  He let me sit in his car and briefly talked to me about education and community.  I made up my mind that day that I was gonna be a lawyer come hell or high water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Willie Gary
> 
> 
> Gary, Williams, Parenti, Watson & Gary, PLLC - Willie Gary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> williegary.com


I'm not stereotyping... I addressed the 3 examples YOU offered up.  You aren't wrong, but neither am I.  Your point is that young black men need an inspirational figure to model and, unfortunately, too many are still inspired by rap and hip hop "artists".  If they were to watch the PAC12 or BIG10 Network, they'd see top universities and soccer programs are well represented by African Americans, Hispanics, etc.  But that's not a shortcut, is it?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> Bingo.  That’s what soccer is about for my family.  I want to integrate my community into soccer because I see it as another way the youth could acquire wealth that is currently being under utilized.


What's your definition of "wealth" in this context, Dre?  Certainly not financial.  There's wealth to be had in knowledge, possibly using soccer as a means to become better educated (especially academically) but many players in today's MLS are still living with roommates because the salaries are not yet there.  It will be one day.  Soccer will make it here, this time, because they incorporated Europe/South America at the beginning instead of the end... which is what the old NASL and MISL did.  If Garber doesn't over expand... it's finally here to stay.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> I'm not stereotyping... I addressed the 3 examples YOU offered up.  You aren't wrong, but neither am I.  Your point is that young black men need an inspirational figure to model and, unfortunately, too many are still inspired by rap and hip hop "artists".  If they were to watch the PAC12 or BIG10 Network, they'd see top universities and soccer programs are well represented by African Americans, Hispanics, etc.  But that's not a shortcut, is it?


The only college athlete I can recall influencing popular culture was Christian Laettner but his influence was limited to the communities that pay to play soccer proliferate in.  My community saw Laettner as being another “great white hope,” which turned out to be true.  And, it’s not only the rappers...it’s also the fact that USSF has failed to inform blacks in the USA that many of the best soccer players past and present share their ethnicity.

Everyone doesn’t want to be a rapper.  The problem is that entertainment is the primary area blacks are promoted.  

If you knew African history, you’d know that the Moors civilized Europe.  You’d know Imhotep was the father or medicine and not Hippocrates.  The problem is we have a education system that teaches “white lies” to empower white kids.  I let my kid learn the bullshit they teach her in school, then we travel and I show her the truth.


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> What's your definition of "wealth" in this context, Dre?  Certainly not financial.  There's wealth to be had in knowledge, possibly using soccer as a means to become better educated (especially academically) but many players in today's MLS are still living with roommates because the salaries are not yet there.  It will be one day.  Soccer will make it here, this time, because they incorporated Europe/South America at the beginning instead of the end... which is what the old NASL and MISL did.  If Garber doesn't over expand... it's finally here to stay.


I was speaking more to playing in Europe and on a International level similar to the Brazilians whom are Portuguese speaking African-Americans.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> The only college athlete I can recall influencing popular culture was Christian Laettner but his influence was limited to the communities that pay to play soccer proliferate in.  My community saw Laettner as being another “great white hope,” which turned out to be true.  And, it’s not only the rappers...it’s also the fact that USSF has failed to inform blacks in the USA that many of the best soccer players past and present share their ethnicity.
> 
> Everyone doesn’t want to be a rapper.  The problem is that entertainment is the primary area blacks are promoted.
> 
> If you knew African history, you’d know that the Moors civilized Europe.  You’d know Imhotep was the father or medicine and not Hippocrates.  The problem is we have a education system that teaches “white lies” to empower white kids.  I let my kid learn the bullshit they teach her in school, then we travel and I show her the truth.


Who should US Soccer have promoted?  Freddie Adu?  Oh wait, that's right, they DID promote him!  And he was a bust.  I didn't take African American studies in college for the same reason I didn't take women's studies.  Nobody wants to be in a room with angry wound~lickers looking to take out their phony revenge on the innocent.  White lies?  Does the whining ever stop?  You let your kid learn the bullshit?  You're the same parent that left their young teenager in a Tijuana school because her talents weren't recognized in the Bay Area.  LMAO!  Do you have ANY fucking idea how many college and professional soccer females came from the Bay?  Are you born with the chip on your shoulder or is it a slow growth?

Christian Laettner was popular because he was hated.  I'd argue Allen Iverson had the same influence and he was beloved until he became unbelievably stupid as a professional.


----------



## Ellejustus

Dang, I thought race relations were on the up swing.  What I'm witnessing on the socal soccer forum is revealing to say the least.  It all makes since now.  Sense I was literally in the middle of all this soccer BS with one of the top forwards in her age group a few years ago.  I was sold YNT & Pros, period, end of the story.  Fact, not fiction!!!  I asked only a few questions after no pro pathway for DA Pros unless home school and move away to Portland.  Guys like Sandy, Kicker, Lastman and Lester let me have it because they didn;t like my questions.  I'm serious.  I was never after college, never ever!!!  Pros and YNT only was the target.  Hello, anyone home at GDA headquarters and their spokes people on the forum who have a very vested interest in the G D A League staying alive and also know it's 99% all about college and not the pros.  I got so pissed off when they sold me a college deal as a consultation prize the day after I ranted. You all no me right?  I hate school and think it needs one big overhaul, just like youth soccer.  After telling my goat how awesome she was and so close to making that list and the pros, the same smart asses sold me college, "Where would you like to go little one?"  What are your grades like in 8th grade"  "What & wear would you like to study?"  "Were xxxx club and basically, where would you like to go?"  "Hurry hurry, step right up and sign your life away."  However, according to Sandy and all the experts who tell the truth about the pain & suffering most of the goats actually feel in college because 80% of these soccer players either quit, sit on the bench, or just transfer to JC and hope not to get pregnant and live on food stamps because the pimps have got what they wanted already from the goat.  All the while assholes like Sandy laugh because they already know what happens to the dumb goat.  ""Hahahahhahah"" he says. That is one big jerk!!!! Asshole the prick, lied to the girls, and their parents, and,that is why they changed the rules Sandy and Lester and all the others.  Go read my rants from July.  It's all there.  I haven't changed.  I just gots more information and I know 100% about all this soccer stuff now.  I was sold a college deal for my 8th grader. Think about that Sandy?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Dang, I thought race relations were on the up swing.  What I'm witnessing on the socal soccer forum is revealing to say the least.  It all makes since now.  Sense I was literally in the middle of all this soccer BS with one of the top forwards in her age group a few years ago.  I was sold YNT & Pros, period, end of the story.  Fact, not fiction!!!  I asked only a few questions after no pro pathway for DA Pros unless home school and move away to Portland.  Guys like Sandy, Kicker, Lastman and Lester let me have it because they didn;t like my questions.  I'm serious.  I was never after college, never ever!!!  Pros and YNT only was the target.  Hello, anyone home at GDA headquarters and their spokes people on the forum who have a very vested interest in the G D A League staying alive and also know it's 99% all about college and not the pros.  I got so pissed off when they sold me a college deal as a consultation prize the day after I ranted. You all no me right?  I hate school and think it needs one big overhaul, just like youth soccer.  After telling my goat how awesome she was and so close to making that list and the pros, the same smart asses sold me college, "Where would you like to go little one?"  What are your grades like in 8th grade"  "What & wear would you like to study?"  "Were xxxx club and basically, where would you like to go?"  "Hurry hurry, step right up and sign your life away."  However, according to Sandy and all the experts who tell the truth about the pain & suffering most of the goats actually feel in college because 80% of these soccer players either quit, sit on the bench, or just transfer to JC and hope not to get pregnant and live on food stamps because the pimps have got what they wanted already from the goat.  All the while assholes like Sandy laugh because they already know what happens to the dumb goat.  ""Hahahahhahah"" he says. That is one big jerk!!!! Asshole the prick, lied to the girls, and their parents, and,that is why they changed the rules Sandy and Lester and all the others.  Go read my rants from July.  It's all there.  I haven't changed.  I just gots more information and I know 100% about all this soccer stuff now.  I was sold a college deal for my 8th grader. Think about that Sandy?


How many times are you going to post the same thing over and over again, TunaHelper?


----------



## Hodari

@Dominic thank you for giving these guys someone to talk with and people that listen to them. Without this forum no one would...


----------



## espola

MacDre said:


> The only college athlete I can recall influencing popular culture was Christian Laettner but his influence was limited to the communities that pay to play soccer proliferate in.  My community saw Laettner as being another “great white hope,” which turned out to be true.  And, it’s not only the rappers...it’s also the fact that USSF has failed to inform blacks in the USA that many of the best soccer players past and present share their ethnicity.
> 
> Everyone doesn’t want to be a rapper.  The problem is that entertainment is the primary area blacks are promoted.
> 
> If you knew African history, you’d know that the Moors civilized Europe.  You’d know Imhotep was the father or medicine and not Hippocrates.  The problem is we have a education system that teaches “white lies” to empower white kids.  I let my kid learn the bullshit they teach her in school, then we travel and I show her the truth.


"The Greeks equated him with their own god of medicine, Aesklepios, although there is no evidence that Imhotep himself was a physician."









						The Art of Medicine in Ancient Egypt
					

Relics of ancient Egyptian civilization testify to the Egyptians' continual efforts to understand and embrace the world they lived in. Ancient Egypt was advanced and sophisticated by the standards of the time, but disease and disaster posed constant challenges to daily life. The Art of Medicine...



					books.google.com


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> How many times are you going to post the same thing over and over again, TunaHelper?


As long as it takes to help you


----------



## MacDre

The Outlaw said:


> Who should US Soccer have promoted?  Freddie Adu?  Oh wait, that's right, they DID promote him!  And he was a bust.  I didn't take African American studies in college for the same reason I didn't take women's studies.  Nobody wants to be in a room with angry wound~lickers looking to take out their phony revenge on the innocent.  White lies?  Does the whining ever stop?  You let your kid learn the bullshit?  You're the same parent that left their young teenager in a Tijuana school because her talents weren't recognized in the Bay Area.  LMAO!  Do you have ANY fucking idea how many college and professional soccer females came from the Bay?  Are you born with the chip on your shoulder or is it a slow growth?
> 
> Christian Laettner was popular because he was hated.  I'd argue Allen Iverson had the same influence and he was beloved until he became unbelievably stupid as a professional.


I did not want my kid in an environment where she was like a raisin in a bowl of milk.  I wanted her to have a socially and culturally relevant education and not just learn about great white men.  I wanted her bilingual.  I wanted her to understand to plight of the poor and have poor friends. I wanted her to be from da hood but not of da hood.

My kid was identified as academically gifted early. She skipped 1 grade and I did not want her to skip another grade.  So, instead of skipping again she had to learn all subjects in Spanish and English.  School in TJ is not about soccer; soccer kinda just happened from being immersed in a soccer culture.


----------



## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> I did not want my kid in an environment where she was like a raisin in a bowl of milk.  I wanted her to have a socially and culturally relevant education and not just learn about great white men.  I wanted her bilingual.  I wanted her to understand to plight of the poor and have poor friends. I wanted her to be from da hood but not of da hood.
> 
> My kid was identified as academically gifted early. She skipped 1 grade and I did not want her to skip another grade.  So, instead of skipping again she had to learn all subjects in Spanish and English.  School in TJ is not about soccer; soccer kinda just happened from being immersed in a soccer culture.


That is awesome.  My wife speaks five languages.  My dd when she was 4 started to stutter.  Me and God had a talk and I begged him to take that potential game changer away from her. So many pricks out there. It was bad and she never thought it was.  It went away in 6 months


----------



## LadiesMan217

Ellejustus said:


> Dang, I thought race relations were on the up swing.  What I'm witnessing on the socal soccer forum is revealing to say the least.  It all makes since now.  Sense I was literally in the middle of all this soccer BS with one of the top forwards in her age group a few years ago.  I was sold YNT & Pros, period, end of the story.  Fact, not fiction!!!  I asked only a few questions after no pro pathway for DA Pros unless home school and move away to Portland.  Guys like Sandy, Kicker, Lastman and Lester let me have it because they didn;t like my questions.  I'm serious.  I was never after college, never ever!!!  Pros and YNT only was the target.  Hello, anyone home at GDA headquarters and their spokes people on the forum who have a very vested interest in the G D A League staying alive and also know it's 99% all about college and not the pros.  I got so pissed off when they sold me a college deal as a consultation prize the day after I ranted. You all no me right?  I hate school and think it needs one big overhaul, just like youth soccer.  After telling my goat how awesome she was and so close to making that list and the pros, the same smart asses sold me college, "Where would you like to go little one?"  What are your grades like in 8th grade"  "What & wear would you like to study?"  "Were xxxx club and basically, where would you like to go?"  "Hurry hurry, step right up and sign your life away."  However, according to Sandy and all the experts who tell the truth about the pain & suffering most of the goats actually feel in college because 80% of these soccer players either quit, sit on the bench, or just transfer to JC and hope not to get pregnant and live on food stamps because the pimps have got what they wanted already from the goat.  All the while assholes like Sandy laugh because they already know what happens to the dumb goat.  ""Hahahahhahah"" he says. That is one big jerk!!!! Asshole the prick, lied to the girls, and their parents, and,that is why they changed the rules Sandy and Lester and all the others.  Go read my rants from July.  It's all there.  I haven't changed.  I just gots more information and I know 100% about all this soccer stuff now.  I was sold a college deal for my 8th grader. Think about that Sandy?


You are making race relation determinations based on a socal soccer forum with maybe 20 active members?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> I did not want my kid in an environment where she was like a raisin in a bowl of milk.  I wanted her to have a socially and culturally relevant education and not just learn about great white men.  I wanted her bilingual.  I wanted her to understand to plight of the poor and have poor friends. I wanted her to be from da hood but not of da hood.
> 
> My kid was identified as academically gifted early. She skipped 1 grade and I did not want her to skip another grade.  So, instead of skipping again she had to learn all subjects in Spanish and English.  School in TJ is not about soccer; soccer kinda just happened from being immersed in a soccer culture.


Fair enough... it's an interesting and unique move but I hope it works out for her.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> That is awesome.  My wife speaks five languages.  My dd when she was 4 started to stutter.  Me and God had a talk and I begged him to take that potential game changer away from her. So many pricks out there. It was bad and she never thought it was.  It went away in 6 months


Any chance English is one of the 5?  I was hoping maybe she could tutor you in between pies.


----------



## Ellejustus

LadiesMan217 said:


> You are making race relation determinations based on a socal soccer forum with maybe 20 active members?


Listen ladies man, the only time viewership goes up is when someone like this guy brings a gun to a game or we talk race and the flavor of soccer. Way more than 20 dudes.  More eyes are here than you know.  I'm not alone and many people agree with me.  Light and darkness have a very hard time working together,  Plus, the light always wins!!!  Go get your ball, lets go!!


----------



## Ellejustus

Ref abuse out at galaway downs.  This was before gun guy. I'm guilty of getting mad in the earlier day at refs calls, but I stooped last year.  I have more respect for refs now and I feel bad I got all into too much.  I never got kicked out of a game and never challenge a big dad to a fight.  I know better then that.  Parents, do you see why we all got time out?


----------



## gotothebushes

ToonArmy said:


> Only point I attempted to make was everyone perception of soccer players is different from your hood to mine but I get what your saying didn't get it in the first post and I posted the pic of Snoop thought it was funny. he actually is a soccer fan talks about it Charles Haley Chauncey billips daughters play college soccer Chad Johnson odel grew up playing I wouldn't say any of that is an endorsement or anything enough to reach the youth in Vallejo. If you never heard the stupid stereotype of football players been meathead jocks and don't get that I'm not saying that it's anything but a stupid stereotype as is soccer players being squares then whatever I got no response but if you were trying to go somewhere with me on that then  you don't know me


 Got to love the Bay Area!!


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> I'm proud of everyone today for jumping into the debates.  Were here in our home for a long ass time and we need to help those up at the top make better and fairer decisions for all of us regarding soccer.  Full time mask wearing now if you step outside, No parks, beaches or trails now.  I guess we will all see how the goats do without 7 months of soccer.


What's your best guess when club soccer will return?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Listen ladies man, the only time viewership goes up is when someone like this guy brings a gun to a game or we talk race and the flavor of soccer. Way more than 20 dudes.  More eyes are here than you know.  I'm not alone and many people agree with me.  Light and darkness have a very hard time working together,  Plus, the light always wins!!!  Go get your ball, lets go!!


Brings back memories.  I can't juggle, either, if there's a blue shirt cocksucker in the immediate area.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Brings back memories.  I can't juggle, either, if there's a blue shirt cocksucker in the immediate area.


Me shamed @myself for participating in this behavior.  I really really M.  I was at games that got out of hand.  I saw dads get kicked out and parents yelling and screaming at their kids and other kids.  I saw dads yell at the coach after the game because his dd didnlt start.  I can go on and on.  I see also the parents who hate the true goat dads.  I saw weird looks and fake smiles back then and now I know why, "so glad your dd can join our already awesome team.  I'm glad I can help sponsor your poor family and dd to the promise land." "BTW, this is really about D1 bro."  Stop with the pipe dream and all this pro crap"  "Welcome dear friend." BTW, I only yelled at the refs and my kid early on.  My kid hated it and let me know it all in front of the parents, "stop talking to me dad and trying to tell me what to do.  Coach told me to do this and your confusing me.  Please stop dad!!!"  I was drinking so much kool aid my lips were blue all the time because that's my kind of flav, I was drunk on it at all the games for a few years. My wife would give me that look and I knew what I said was wrong to the ref. She helped me the most and my dd second.  My son said, "I told you so" just like Grandpa said some of the churches just want your money (not all churches.  But, I was so addicted to the prize I acted as if I didnl;t hear what I just heard and saw with mys eye at big time tournaments.  This sport is in the wrong hands that's all I can say.  Can you imagine these clowns running USA basketball?  SAT score please?  "What't the GPA bro?"  ""Hahahahahaahaha" they say, and then they hit you with, "you can;t play college ball because your too stupid."  We need a new road for goats only. Hate to break it to you guys.  Me and Macdre will look for some money. I'll write Trump, Joe and Cindy.  Just like Andy did in Shawshank with the State to get books so Brooks could build a library and hang out with jinks all day instead of getting chased but those rapists all day.


----------



## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> Listen ladies man, the only time viewership goes up is when someone like this guy brings a gun to a game or we talk race and the flavor of soccer. Way more than 20 dudes.  More eyes are here than you know.  I'm not alone and many people agree with me.  Light and darkness have a very hard time working together,  Plus, the light always wins!!!  Go get your ball, lets go!!


Man, I wish a motherfucker would.  You see, I ain’t with all that loud talking and acting tough.  To people like dude, I dedicate this song


----------



## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> Me shamed @myself for participating in this behavior.  I really really M.  I was at games that got out of hand.  I saw dads get kicked out and parents yelling and screaming at their kids and other kids.  I saw dads yell at the coach after the game because his dd didnlt start.  I can go on and on.  I see also the parents who hate the true goat dads.  I saw weird looks and fake smiles back then and now I know why, "so glad your dd can join our already awesome team.  I'm glad I can help sponsor your poor family and dd to the promise land." "BTW, this is really about D1 bro."  Stop with the pipe dream and all this pro crap"  "Welcome dear friend." BTW, I only yelled at the refs and my kid early on.  My kid hated it and let me know it all in front of the parents, "stop talking to me dad and trying to tell me what to do.  Coach told me to do this and your confusing me.  Please stop dad!!!"  I was drinking so much kool aid my lips were blue all the time because that's my kind of flav, I was drunk on it at all the games for a few years. My wife would give me that look and I knew what I said was wrong to the ref. She helped me the most and my dd second.  My son said, "I told you so" just like Grandpa said some of the churches just want your money (not all churches.  But, I was so addicted to the prize I acted as if I didnl;t hear what I just heard and saw with mys eye at big time tournaments.  This sport is in the wrong hands that's all I can say.  Can you imagine these clowns running USA basketball?  SAT score please?  "What't the GPA bro?"  ""Hahahahahaahaha" they say, and then they hit you with, "you can;t play college ball because your too stupid."  We need a new road for goats only. Hate to break it to you guys.  Me and Macdre will look for some money. I'll write Trump, Joe and Cindy.  Just like Andy did in Shawshank with the State to get books so Brooks could build a library and hang out with jinks all day instead of getting chased but those rapists all day.





Ellejustus said:


> Me shamed @myself for participating in this behavior.  I really really M.  I was at games that got out of hand.  I saw dads get kicked out and parents yelling and screaming at their kids and other kids.  I saw dads yell at the coach after the game because his dd didnlt start.  I can go on and on.  I see also the parents who hate the true goat dads.  I saw weird looks and fake smiles back then and now I know why, "so glad your dd can join our already awesome team.  I'm glad I can help sponsor your poor family and dd to the promise land." "BTW, this is really about D1 bro."  Stop with the pipe dream and all this pro crap"  "Welcome dear friend." BTW, I only yelled at the refs and my kid early on.  My kid hated it and let me know it all in front of the parents, "stop talking to me dad and trying to tell me what to do.  Coach told me to do this and your confusing me.  Please stop dad!!!"  I was drinking so much kool aid my lips were blue all the time because that's my kind of flav, I was drunk on it at all the games for a few years. My wife would give me that look and I knew what I said was wrong to the ref. She helped me the most and my dd second.  My son said, "I told you so" just like Grandpa said some of the churches just want your money (not all churches.  But, I was so addicted to the prize I acted as if I didnl;t hear what I just heard and saw with mys eye at big time tournaments.  This sport is in the wrong hands that's all I can say.  Can you imagine these clowns running USA basketball?  SAT score please?  "What't the GPA bro?"  ""Hahahahahaahaha" they say, and then they hit you with, "you can;t play college ball because your too stupid."  We need a new road for goats only. Hate to break it to you guys.  Me and Macdre will look for some money. I'll write Trump, Joe and Cindy.  Just like Andy did in Shawshank with the State to get books so Brooks could build a library and hang out with jinks all day instead of getting chased but those rapists all day.


Lenny is my distant cousin.  Our grandparents are from the same island.


----------



## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> Lenny is my distant cousin.  Our grandparents are from the same island.


My buddy from hs school take pics of Lenny all the time


----------



## Ellejustus

Let me just say this too.  Black people are by far the most forgiving race I know in America.  I never told you guys that I used to have coffee at starbucks at 5am until 8am every morning in Leisure World before Cornoa.  We had a retired mens group chatted it up every morning.  Everyone was represented.  One of the guys is black and from Mississippi.  He's 70 something and fought in Vietnam.  He told me hoops stories when the white dudes still held court.  I won;t bore you with all the stories, but the fact that he can talk with me without hate is truly amazing and I super appreciatedit coming from this dude.  The crap Joe had to go through was insane.  No fun bus ride with the team to the game.  He had to find is own ride.  My dd shares about all the fun she has with her teammates and I feel bad for guys like Joe.  All because Lester didn;t want to lose his starting spot.  Soccer is next folks and were closer then you think.  My dd has a better chance of playing with these goats in the future and making a team then she does with this current goat group where you pay to play.  That's the God's honest truth from my heart.  I just want to be clear about that if anyone is wondering.


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> What's your best guess when club soccer will return?


I see you now realize my predictions are good and sound and you actually respect me enough to know I know what the hell is going on.  I told you and everyone else we need to "Pause" or "reset" all this crap in life and do a redo.  Youth soccer is one big problem as is politics in this country.  Youth sports was getting out of hand.  Girls and boys were killing themselves because of too much pressure put on them.  No kids getting bullied at school right now like I got bullied either and that's a good thing.  No more school shootings either.  My prediction right now is I have no clue.  I thought this would be done and over with.  The way they told us slowly now makes me think were in for a long haul.  I will say if all of you admit your errors and mistakes in all this we might get out for good behavior.  The pride in some of you will keep us all in doors all because you want things to be like they used to.  They will NEVER be same.  Get over it and get used to it.


----------



## Ellejustus

Look how you guys talk to me.  Some of you are the same assholes who made fun of other kids in school. Shameful and disgraceful eltitist bullies some of you are.  You can have the college cup.  I'll go find another cup to win.  Losers!!!!  That was just a joke and not to be taken serious.  It was said to make a point.  It's up to my dd and she wants it all.


----------



## Ellejustus

To all my 20 haters, tomorrow if my off day.  I'm taking my wife out and find a place to go on a date.  No forum tomorrow so you guys can go ahead and have it all to yourselves tomorrow. I wont even look or respond until Super Sunday so you know I wont respond, I promise.  I'll be around all day today and late into the night.  Good talk today.  Going deep deep in American history today.  God help us all to play fair and try to help the cheaters to stop cheating and learn to be a good sport even when someone else is better than them in the sport.  Amen


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## dad4

July.


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## MacDre

espola said:


> "The Greeks equated him with their own god of medicine, Aesklepios, although there is no evidence that Imhotep himself was a physician."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Art of Medicine in Ancient Egypt
> 
> 
> Relics of ancient Egyptian civilization testify to the Egyptians' continual efforts to understand and embrace the world they lived in. Ancient Egypt was advanced and sophisticated by the standards of the time, but disease and disaster posed constant challenges to daily life. The Art of Medicine...
> 
> 
> 
> books.google.com


Context is important here.  The education system in Egypt was extensive and took approximately 40 years to graduate.  One had to study all the social sciences, engineering/architecture, law, and medicine.  He wasn’t known as a physician because it was just one of the many things he did.


----------



## espola

MacDre said:


> Context is important here.  The education system in Egypt was extensive and took approximately 40 years to graduate.  One had to study all the social sciences, engineering/architecture, law, and medicine.  He wasn’t known as a physician because it was just one of the many things he did.


"40 years to graduate"?


----------



## Ellejustus

espola said:


> "40 years to graduate"?


To be a true Sage and Healer for the people.  Takes time.  We call people Doc when they have no business being a Doc


----------



## MacDre

espola said:


> "40 years to graduate"?


Yep.  You also see this with Moses in the Bible who was raised and educated in Egypt in the ways of the Egyptian priest.


----------



## espola

MacDre said:


> Yep.  You also see this with Moses in the Bible who was raised and educated in Egypt in the ways of the Egyptian priest.


The average lifespan for males in those days was less than 40 years, so that would have left little time for the average physician to practice medicine.


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## Ellejustus

espola said:


> The average lifespan for males in those days was less than 40 years, so that would have left little time for the average physician to practice medicine.


Docs back then were not average.  They lived the longest, that's why people respected them.  The Docs today feed your body with poison.  After they get you addicted to heroine, some of them will tell you, you need back surgery.  $100,000 later more morphine, they tell you your live is shot and you need a new one. This dude is called a lifeime customer for Club Heathcare.  Great Docs we got today.


----------



## MacDre

espola said:


> The average lifespan for males in those days was less than 40 years, so that would have left little time for the average physician to practice medicine.


“average” is the key word.  Nothing about those men was average.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Let me just say this too.  Black people are by far the most forgiving race I know in America.  I never told you guys that I used to have coffee at starbucks at 5am until 8am every morning in Leisure World before Cornoa.  We had a retired mens group chatted it up every morning.  Everyone was represented.  One of the guys is black and from Mississippi.  He's 70 something and fought in Vietnam.  He told me hoops stories when the white dudes still held court.  I won;t bore you with all the stories, but the fact that he can talk with me without hate is truly amazing and I super appreciatedit coming from this dude.  The crap Joe had to go through was insane.  No fun bus ride with the team to the game.  He had to find is own ride.  My dd shares about all the fun she has with her teammates and I feel bad for guys like Joe.  All because Lester didn;t want to lose his starting spot.  Soccer is next folks and were closer then you think.  My dd has a better chance of playing with these goats in the future and making a team then she does with this current goat group where you pay to play.  That's the God's honest truth from my heart.  I just want to be clear about that if anyone is wondering.


Why would he hate you?  You didn't do anything to him.  Not everybody bases their entire life on skin color.  And no... nobody is wondering.


----------



## Ellejustus

I feel so happy today for so many reasons.  Listen to this theme song.  I love this song so much I played at my wedding when I walked down with my boys.  Bruno was right by myside.  Most loving and respectful man I ever met.  He has some stories too Lester.  I just listen to this football song that makes me want to compete.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I feel so happy today for so many reasons.  Listen to this theme song.  I love this song so much I played at my wedding when I walked down with my boys.  Bruno was right by myside.  Most loving and respectful man I ever met.  He has some stories too Lester.  I just listen to this football song that makes me want to compete.


Brings back my childhood.  Reminds me of OJ Simpson... before he got away with double murder.  Luckily for us, he's busy checking all the country clubs in SoCal because evidence showed the REAL killer had a "slice".


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Brings back my childhood.  Reminds me of OJ Simpson... before he got away with double murder.  Luckily for us, he's busy checking all the country clubs in SoCal because evidence showed the REAL killer had a "slice".


Wow, were so different.  I never thought of OJ.


----------



## Ellejustus

I remember this commercial.  My beloved Steelers. Mean Joe Green.  Lynn and John.  Franco and Rocky.  Jack, the other jack, LC Shell, Blount and Webster and Terry.  Complete dominance and all you want to talk about is OJ.  Monday football was about winning and getting ready to play outside the next day.  Look what comes off your dark, sad and lonely heart.  OJ?  Really?  OJ bro? I know who youre.  Yor sick dude.  What a serious sick man you are. Wow!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

This is only for Lester @The Outlaw and anyone else looking for some insight into what life is really about.  Split personalities, my ass.  My wife is 100% an Angel and I'm not joking.  She is the real deal. It made me think if she's my Angel, then who the hell are my Demons?  I have two Angels protecting me Outlaw, my wife and my biz partner   Not everyone has an Angel, let alone two.  Two is big league.  Most just have Demons to fight with all by themselves all day long.  

*How to Overcome Your Demons*
By Mark​Stop avoiding them. Stop fighting them. Instead, learn to make peace with your demons.

When I was younger, I used to have this quiet, menacing voice inside me. I was starved for attention and affection, but every time I started to receive attention or affection from somebody, that voice would quietly urge me to get away. “You’ll be trapped,” it would say. “You’re going to lose your independence.” And suddenly, I’d begin to have irrational ideas about never being able to eat steak again because the girl I liked was vegetarian, or how moving in with some friends meant that I’d be forced to play Scrabble with them every night for the rest of my life.

We all have demons—parts of ourselves that we don’t like to acknowledge but we see lurking inside us—parts of ourselves that cause us to do irrational and selfish things not out of love for ourselves, but out of fear for ourselves.

But no matter how hard we try to ignore our demons, they’re always there, bubbling up to the surface, seeping out from the lid we try to keep on them. And the harder we try to hold that lid down, the more fucked up our lives become. We get high or drunk to forget our demons. We distract ourselves from our demons with work or competition. We treat _others_ like shit to distort our deep-seated fear that they will eventually treat _us_ like shit.

Anything to keep the demons at bay…

You have probably done battle with your demons at some point—you’ve fought back the feelings of anger or guilt; you’ve hated yourself for your stupid behavior. You’ve promised yourself that you’ll stop listening to that little voice inside or that you’ll finally put the vodka away.

One of the demons I still struggle with is laziness. While we’re all lazy slobs at least some of the time, my struggle with my own “usefulness” in this world often spirals to a dark and lonely place if I’m not careful.

When I procrastinate, I tend to judge myself pretty harshly, telling myself I’m a no good, lazy sack of shit. My general assumption is that _everyone_ is productive and kicking ass every day… except me. I realize now (after many years) how irrational this belief is. But still, that little voice inside whispers that no one else has a problem staying motivated, therefore I must be some sort of loser.

Demons start out as a self-judgment: you’re lazy, you’re dirty, you’re stupid, you’re unlovable, etc.

Then we try our hardest to avoid that judgment, to prove it wrong. We clean the garage six times. We work 11 hour days. We win a blue ribbon at the local skating rink. _See! I told you I’m cool and likeable! See! Look at me!_

But eventually, that avoidance becomes self-destructive. You clean the garage again instead of picking your kids up from school. You work so long that you fall asleep driving home. Your obsession with skating rink blue ribbons destroys your relationship with your partner, with them leaving and screaming, “You never wanted me! You just wanted someone to watch you skate!”

And worse, no matter how much you prove your demon wrong, it doesn’t go away. The laziness demon never stops making me feel lazy. The cleaning demon, one of my wife’s demons, never lets her feel like everything is clean or organized enough. No matter how hard you work, the demon is never satisfied. So the only alternative is to distract yourself from the demon, or worse, to give in.

For me, I spent many years distracting myself with partying. Sex and alcohol, mostly. But some drugs when I was younger. These days, I have a tendency to fall into a lull of playing video games for 3-4 days straight—all the while hating the fact that I’m doing it.

In this way, our demons morph into a kind of self-loathing. You feel powerless and trapped. You can’t win. No matter how much you succeed, you can’t prove the demon wrong. Yet, when you give up and fail, you just prove the demon right.

Suddenly, that vodka sounds pretty good…

…but there’s got to be a better way.


----------



## Ellejustus

*BEFRIENDING YOUR DEMONS*

In her book, _Feeding Your Demons_, Tsultrim Allione talks about an old Tibetan Buddhist meditation practice where you literally visualize whatever “demon” is haunting you, and then sit down and feed them, the same way you’d feed a guest or a friend at a dinner party. Allione argues that this has a healing effect—that it represents accepting the worst part of ourselves and developing compassion for ourselves.

Inspired by this idea, I decided to try something I had never really tried before: I would become friends with my demon, my tireless inner-critic. So I started by giving that critic a name: I called him Carl.1

Now, Carl is a total dickface. But that’s just Carl’s thing. Dicks. And faces. But mostly just cruelly judging me for even the faintest evidence of my own failures.

But you know what? I’m not going to hold that against Carl. Not anymore.

Like everyone, Carl needs love and compassion too. So, one night in bed, I closed my eyes and imagined sitting down to dinner with Carl.

“Carl,” I said, “you really make my life hell sometimes, you know that? I constantly feel like I’m not doing enough because you never leave me alone.”

To which Carl, whose voice sounded a lot like Morgan Freeman’s, said, “Mark, you’ve made a demon out of me when I’m really just the other side of your fiery ambition. The only reason I cast doubt on everything you do is because you _want_ to do so much. I don’t make you sit down and play video games for twelve-hour stretches. I merely remind you of what you value when you do. And, if that hurts, so be it.”

“Goddamn, Carl. You sound just like Morgan Freeman.”

Carl looked at his claws and buffed them with his craggly hand, “I know, I know. I get that a lot.”

“So, what you’re saying is, you’re just here because you reflect the sacrifices of the things I desire?” I asked.

“You could say that,” replied Carl. “Or you could go even further and say that I’m not a reflection of you. I am you.”

I don’t remember much conversation after that. I fell asleep and dreamt that circus acrobats were performing in my college dorm room. But a couple of days later, the profundity started to sink in…

I’ve long argued that the best thing about people is often also the worst thing about them—that’s because our extraordinarily positive traits often produce extraordinarily negative side effects. A gift for empathy might make you overly emotional at times. A competitive streak that earns you high achievements might also make you kind of an asshole. A spontaneous creative spirit that gives you artistic talent might make you really, really bad at doing your taxes.2

So, in my case, my constant guilt around being lazy is just the flip side of having enormous energy and ambitions. My old demon about getting too close to people is also what made me incredibly independent and allowed me to take risks most people wouldn’t (start a business, move abroad, write a book with “Fuck” on the cover—and then another one.)

In this sense, every demon has its associated angel. And our demons are just the other side of our best qualities. To give up one would be to give up both.

As such, we cannot honor the best in ourselves _without_ also honoring what we also fear to be worst about ourselves. Because what we tend to judge as our “worst” is merely the reflection of what we desire as our best.

The shadowy parts of our fucked up souls aren’t the problem—the problem is our _drive to dissociate ourselves from our fucked up souls_ in the first place. And the stronger our drive is to dissociate from our demons, the larger our demons become.

Put another way, whatever you choose to value in your life, you are also choosing to experience _the failure of that value_. Read that shit again, motherfucker. Everything valuable and important in this world has a dark underbelly, a subtle shadow, an associated demon with it. And you can’t buy one without the other. It’s a 2-for-1 deal whether you like it or not.

When we don’t face that demon and befriend it, we complicate our ability to live up to our values. This sucks, because living up to our values is what allows us to develop a sense of identity and life purpose. It’s what keeps us happy and healthy and prevents us from falling into vice and addiction.

*DEMONS & ADDICTION NEXT..............*


----------



## Ellejustus

*DEMONS AND ADDICTION*
Addicts have come to hate the unsavory parts of themselves so much that they go to extremes to avoid them. Their addictive substance or behavior of choice becomes not just a distraction from their demons, it’s how they escape from them entirely—assuming they can find the next high.

Addiction is a double-whammy of suckage, psychologically speaking, because not only are you avoiding the demon through addiction, but then you feel guilty and hate yourself for all of the damage and destruction that addiction causes.

In _The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck_, I spent much of the book talking about entitlement—the assumption that we deserve special treatment or better results than everyone else.

This drive to dissociate from our demons is a subtle form of entitlement—it’s an assumption or belief that _we should be able to live without self-doubt or suffering_. An off-shoot of that assumption is often the belief that our pain is special and unique to us, that no one understands what it’s like to be us or to have our problems. It doesn’t help that substance abuse generally destroys relationships, isolating the addict further, causing greater suffering and a greater sense that their suffering is somehow unique.

But here’s the hard truth that we all need to hear: there’s nothing special about your demons. Carl doesn’t just visit me. He visits millions of people around the world every day. And while this might hurt my ego a little bit (damn you, Carl, I felt so special with you), that realization that I’m not as special as I thought _is damn liberating. _

If _everyone_ faces demons at some point, then it means we don’t have to be ashamed of them. It just means we’re human.

I can’t tell you how many emails I get from readers saying something like, “Hey Mark, I got a really messed up problem. You’ve probably never heard this one before…”

They then go on to mention a problem that 26 other people emailed me about just that week.

Like a shitty partner, our demons delude us into thinking that they’re ours, that our hearts are the only ones they have infiltrated when really, they’re screwing half the people on the block.

Damn you, demons.

But despite the unsavory analogies, we must still befriend our demons. It’s the only way to prevent them from ruling over our lives.

It’s important to note though: befriending the demon isn’t necessarily agreeing with the demon. And it’s definitely not the same thing as indulging them. An alcoholic isn’t made better by drinking more; that just feeds their addiction. And if you hate yourself in some way, indulging that hate with self-destructive behaviors will only feed into your self-loathing.

No, you befriend your demon by treating them the same way you treat your crazy uncle who believes in conspiracy theories about crop circles: you respect them, even if you don’t agree with them.

“Yes, I’m being lazy today. But that’s okay. I’m allowed to have a couple of lazy days here and there. That doesn’t mean I’m a horrible person, but thanks for bringing it up.”

We all have a bundle of voices offering their perspectives in our heads all the time. A lot of our decisions are made as though they are made by committee. One part of you feels bad for your brother who got arrested for drunk driving and wants to go bail him out of jail. Another part of you is resentful and says “fuck him.” 

Your demons are just members of that same brain-committee. Let them have their seat. And then, when necessary, out-vote them.

*THE SHADOW AND THE LIGHT*
None of this is new, of course.3 Aside from Buddhists encouraging you to be pen pals with the worst parts of your nature, the famous psychoanalyst Carl Jung wrote prolifically about what he called “the shadow.” For Jung, your shadow is all of the parts of yourself that you despise or loathe and therefore hide and avoid. Much like a shadow, it’s this dark image that follows you around, always behind you, always attached to you. It is impossible to run away or lose your shadow because ultimately, your shadow _is_ a representation of you.

It is a beautiful metaphor, because no shadow can exist without a source of light. To rid yourself of your shadow would require you to rid yourself of the light in your life and thus, live in utter darkness.

Jung saw that denying our shadows and everything they contained—the good and the bad—was a source of a great deal of human suffering, and even argued that violence and full-on wars within and between societies were often the sad result of denying our collective shadow. As a culture, we avoid and deny the worst part of ourselves. We wage war on ourselves, threatening and killing our most desperate and vulnerable. We avoid and distract ourselves from our own problems by meddling in the problems of other soccer clubs, parents, refs, stealing goats from other teams, cheating, pay to play and all sorts other crap. It’s all the same shit, just played out on a much grander scale.

Jung argued that we must integrate our shadow into ourselves by “turning toward” the darkness. That means embracing the dark parts of ourselves—our worst impulses, our worst shame, our worst fears—and owning them. Accept that they are there. But with that acceptance is a respectful disagreement if you have the balls and the guts to do it.  

Because you can’t have light without the dark. Hell no you can;t.  Impossible;e Lester. You can’t truly value something unless you also value the lack of that something. You can’t strive to achieve great success if you aren’t also paranoid about failure. You can’t desire wonderful relationships if you aren’t also terrified of those losses. You can’t have the light without the dark, the angel without the demon.

So be nice to your demons. And in time they will be nice to you.  That's what I have learned Lester.  Go to bed and talk to your Demons and say hi. Be real with them and be yourself dude like you always are.   

*HOW TO KNOW WHO YOU REALLY ARE.......NEXT WEEK BY YOURS TRULY*


----------



## Soccer43

I was looking for the soccer forum.  Anyone know where it went?


----------



## Kicker4Life

Soccer43 said:


> I was looking for the soccer forum.  Anyone know where it went?


Buried beneath the dribble.


----------



## Ellejustus




----------



## Kicknit22

Wow!  We all know that the current state of affairs are going to take its toll on everyone.  As we’re all holed up with nowhere to go, it stands to reason that some will start to go stir crazy.  @Ellejustus, to most of us here, you’re clearly two steps ahead in that direction.  But hey, if this forum is your necessary outlet to deal with things and speak YOUR truth, then go on man.  Just keep in mind, YOUR truth is not necessarily anyone else’s.  By all means, start your own thread and post all your thoughts and “truths”.  See how many followers you get.  Personally, I feel sorry for ya bro. Every so often I open up the forum for, maybe, a good read.  But, when I look at New Posts, and all I see is your name next to EVERY damn thread, my immediate thought is, “nothing worth reading”. Followed by, “Dude has got to get a life!”  I’m the only one up on this sleep late Sunday, so I have time to waste on this.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicknit22 said:


> Wow!  We all know that the current state of affairs are going to take its toll on everyone.  As we’re all holed up with nowhere to go, it stands to reason that some will start to go stir crazy.  @Ellejustus, to most of us here, you’re clearly two steps ahead in that direction.  But hey, if this forum is your necessary outlet to deal with things and speak YOUR truth, then go on man.  Just keep in mind, YOUR truth is not necessarily anyone else’s.  By all means, start your own thread and post all your thoughts and “truths”.  See how many followers you get.  Personally, I feel sorry for ya bro. Every so often I open up the forum for, maybe, a good read.  But, when I look at New Posts, and all I see is your name next to EVERY damn thread, my immediate thought is, “nothing worth reading”. Followed by, “Dude has got to get a life!”  I’m the only one up on this sleep late Sunday, so I have time to waste on this.


My family wakes up at around 2pm now, no joke.  I wake up at 5am.  Sorry.  Tell you what, just ignore me dude.  No one says much anyways. Listen to Timmy and I promise to go away.  TY for letting me speak my truth though


----------



## Ellejustus

Back to soccer. This is the #1 thread by far.  Congrats to Vegas Parent.  #1 bro, hands down.  What will happen with these two leagues for 2020-2021 season for reals?  We are having a season for many reasons.  I won;t share why I know that.  I think GDA will make right somehow and ECNL and GDA will learn to come to the middle and work together to bring peace to the land


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> Back to soccer. This is the #1 thread by far.  Congrats to Vegas Parent.  #1 bro, hands down.  What will happen with these two leagues for 2020-2021 season for reals?  We are having a season for many reasons.  I won;t share why I know that.  I think GDA will make right somehow and ECNL and GDA will learn to come to the middle and work together to bring peace to the land


Having a season? Not your ECNL or GDA parents wanting there kids playing soccer right now. Its really not save to say the least. I can be wrong but I think soccer will resume say Oct/Nov with no showcases and team will only play local teams. I can see both leagues coming together for just this season but be careful because players might move to different leagues. GDA and ENCL knows that and might be worried about that unless there's a rule put in place. Just a thought!


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> Having a season? Not your ECNL or GDA parents wanting there kids playing soccer right now. Its really not save to say the least. I can be wrong but I think soccer will resume say Oct/Nov with no showcases and team will only play local teams. I can see both leagues coming together for just this season but be careful because players might move to different leagues. GDA and ENCL knows that and might be worried about that unless there's a rule put in place. Just a thought!


I mean next season.  This season is over.  I said 2020-2021?


----------



## Ellejustus

Plus I hope practice can start at least by August.  My dd and I will go crazy if summer is taken.  I'm serious.  That's not a threat.


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> Plus I hope practice can start at least by August.  My dd and I will go crazy if summer is taken.  I'm serious.  That's not a threat.


 Practice in August! Wishful thinking but I hope your right. I can only imagine how players are going nuts not being able to be with there teammates practicing. However our club have daily workouts and 1 day a week breaking down game film. So I guess thats better than nothing. These coaches want to continued getting paid....


----------



## gotothebushes

Question? Do think clubs are asking for money? Should parents ask for some type of refund given there's no games or practices being held? Paying for fields are expensive no?


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> Practice in August! Wishful thinking but I hope your right. I can only imagine how players are going nuts not being able to be with there teammates practicing. However our club have daily workouts and 1 day a week breaking down game film. So I guess thats better than nothing. These coaches want to continued getting paid....


I'm not hearing about trying to meet up at practice.  All I hear is, "when I can go to the beach." I asked the life guard yesterday and he said he had no idea. This guy has to run up and down and kick little teenage rebels off the beach.  One warning and if they don;t listen the cops are called and mom and dad get a $1,000 ticket.  Dude, my wife and I got prime rib for our car date yesterday evening looking at the beach.  I kid you not these two punk millennial's walk up from the beach that has a fence around it.  I give one of them a "locals only" look and he looks at me and tells me, "Go back inside your house."  The way he was dressed I knew he was not from Laguna.  What a little punk and my wife told me to chill out and I did by getting out of my car and telling him a few things.  My phone was in my hand too.  This is true dude and worth the share.


----------



## Soccerfan2

gotothebushes said:


> Question? Do think clubs are asking for money? Should parents ask for some type of refund given there's no games or practices being held? Paying for fields are expensive no?


Our club is shut down. Parents are not paying for April. No coaches are being paid. The club did send a comprehensive plan for fitness and skill development for kids to do on their own. One DD’s coach is running a weekly hour long virtual footskills session (2 teams together) to stay connected. Other DD’s coach has done one zoom meeting just to let the girls talk.
I don’t know the financial details but my guess is the only cost to the club right now is indoor training space/office lease and minimal utilities.


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## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> Question? Do think clubs are asking for money? Should parents ask for some type of refund given there's no games or practices being held? Paying for fields are expensive no?


Most folks deserve a refund imo.  Mark Cuban said to let the businesses and consumers bounds checks with the banks and then the Govt can handle the rest. Great paper trail too.  Keep working.  I go see my friend at his condo place and you can;t park.  Everyone is home. I actually like the idea and feels so good to just bounce a check and it's ok.  Lets also give everybody a fresh start on their Fico score.  800 for all after this is over   Another crappy way to judge people.  They put you this system and tell you good luck.  I don;t get to print money when I run out BTW...


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## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> I mean next season.  This season is over.  I said 2020-2021?


 I even think 2020-2021 season will be shorten. Thats my guess. Think about it and lets say the virus curve flattens by June, its going to take another 2/3 months for its down to a reasonable number. Now we are into the fall season with the virus coming back. They will extend some type of guide lines for clubs not to start practice or only practice in small groups. Its November now with and winter showcase in just around the corner. No club will have team/parents will be flying to ECNL or GDA showcases.


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## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> I even think 2020-2021 season will be shorten. Thats my guess. Think about it and lets say the virus curve flattens by June, its going to take another 2/3 months for its down to a reasonable number. Now we are into the fall season with the virus coming back. They will extend some type of guide lines for clubs not to start practice or only practice in small groups. Its November now with and winter showcase in just around the corner. No club will have team/parents will be flying to ECNL or GDA showcases.


Sounds good to me too.  Pick up some travel ball next year when the top teams in each city proves themselves in the fall.


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## Ellejustus

Monday Updates
I feel very strongly that we will all be out of our houses.  I won;t say when.  We will also be playing local soccer games by the fall and have social distance training going on outside for the goats, risk takers, top players and all the others ready start living life by August.  July 4th shall be another great day in this country of all of ours.  BTW, not one person played an April Fools joke on me or my family this year.  First time ever.  No time for jokes!!  40% will most likely stay home still with their online training and develop that way because of health risk and fears.  No judgement from me at all. My wife had asthma when she was young and she has to be careful.  At this time, talks have been going on behind closed doors.  It's my understanding (hope) that folks are really trying to do right this time.  Non of us are perfect and we ALL have been a little selfish from time to time in club soccer.  No more league bashing from this dad anymore.  The things I found out recently makes me just be grateful for breath.  It was a war with zero winners.  I'm actually grateful that we have two leagues to choose from as of today.  No news is good news someone once said.  Stay safe & dry for those is Socal.  If you haven;t watched the Doc about Soccer Town USA, you should.  Amazing!!!


----------



## chiefs

IHME | COVID-19 Projections
					

Explore forecasts of COVID-19 cases, deaths, and hospital resource use.




					covid19.healthdata.org
				




Hard to predict when start up will commence but if this trends continue its showing a June 1   “Go” at the latest. Germany just announced 4/19 is their “Go” date


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## dad4

chiefs said:


> IHME | COVID-19 Projections
> 
> 
> Explore forecasts of COVID-19 cases, deaths, and hospital resource use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> covid19.healthdata.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to predict when start up will commence but if this trends continue its showing a June 1   “Go” at the latest. Germany just announced 4/19 is their “Go” date


The last IHME update helps a lot: it shows a peak much sooner for the places with early social distancing.  

But remember that IMHE is a hospital usage forecaster, not an infection rate forecaster.  The new numbers reflect in part a change to the hospitalization assumptions.  They are assuming fewer hospital days per patient, and a smaller fractions of patients needing hospital at all.  This makes the IMHE resource numbers better, but that is different from an infection rate prediction.   I don’t have data for infection rate predictions.

If they do go with an early restart, we need to find ways to do lower density events during the summer and fall.  It is one thing to have 30 people get together at a middle school.   Much less risky than 5,000 or more at the sports complex.


----------



## Ellejustus

*"The Game of Bribes"*​
I've never seen a sport so full of bribes.  Some use other terms like, "Favors" "Loyalty" "Kickbacks" "scratch my back and I will scratch yours"  "pay to play" and so on and so on and so on!!  This sport we call soccer plays Kickball 90% of the time and it comes with Kickbacks too.  It all starts up at the top and works its way all the way down to us.  A little yeast makes the "bread" rise to the top, not the "cream." This sport makes money bread 

*U.S. authorities: FIFA executives were bribed to vote for winning Qatar and Russia World Cup bids*


----------



## Mile High Dad

I bet we all have stories. I am so glad my dd only has a couple of years left. 15 years of dealing with Club soccer with my kids. Old age, injuries and this Pandemic will hopefully get me through these next couple of years and I can enjoy watching soccer again and let the Club politics slide. Can't wait to get back on the sidelines again.


----------



## MSK357

dad4 said:


> The last IHME update helps a lot: it shows a peak much sooner for the places with early social distancing.
> 
> But remember that IMHE is a hospital usage forecaster, not an infection rate forecaster.  The new numbers reflect in part a change to the hospitalization assumptions.  They are assuming fewer hospital days per patient, and a smaller fractions of patients needing hospital at all.  This makes the IMHE resource numbers better, but that is different from an infection rate prediction.   I don’t have data for infection rate predictions.
> 
> If they do go with an early restart, we need to find ways to do lower density events during the summer and fall.  It is one thing to have 30 people get together at a middle school.   Much less risky than 5,000 or more at the sports complex.


We did have infection rate predictions.  Half of California is supposed to be infected.  You even said 7 million would die.  But I agree with you that IMHE resource numbers are better, they continue to lower their prediction.  As for Hospital usage forecaster, that's taking into consideration how many people they expect will be infected and hospitalized. (which means infection rate prediction included).


----------



## Ellejustus

Mile High Dad said:


> I bet we all have stories. I am so glad my dd only has a couple of years left. 15 years of dealing with Club soccer with my kids. Old age, injuries and this Pandemic will hopefully get me through these next couple of years and I can enjoy watching soccer again and let the Club politics slide. Can't wait to get back on the sidelines again.


I went back to some old emails from Docs from 2013 when my dd was u10.  My gosh, I was so blind to what was happening before me eyes and hears. I was warned by one of the most honest and down right truthful coaches in America about recruiting games. He told me it would get worse. Well, six years laters, it was 100% worse and some.  I spoke to this same coach a few months ago and asked him if this is what he meant when he said, "It gets worse, just wait"  He told me this is "way, way worse then he thought and could never had predicted this behavior from some" and actually said sorry in a very respectful way.  I also said sorry.  Wow, the last three years of club been a wild roller coaster ride that I can;t wait to get off.  One more year of club and 4 for college and then the pros maybe....lol.  I believe soccer and bribes will start to go away in the future is my guess.  More games live streamed.  College recruiting will be a blast for 2022s not signed yet. Now a video highlight real is in order.  I'm getting all my dd videos organized. Anyone on here know someone good with splicing and dicing videos?  Want to make some extra $$$.  PM me, thanks


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I went back to some old emails from Docs from 2013 when my dd was u10.  My gosh, I was so blind to what was happening before me eyes and hears. I was warned by one of the most honest and down right truthful coaches in America about recruiting games. He told me it would get worse. Well, six years laters, it was 100% worse and some.  I spoke to this same coach a few months ago and asked him if this is what he meant when he said, "It gets worse, just wait"  He told me this is "way, way worse then he thought and could never had predicted this behavior from some" and actually said sorry in a very respectful way.  I also said sorry.  Wow, the last three years of club been a wild roller coaster ride that I can;t wait to get off.  One more year of club and 4 for college and then the pros maybe....lol.  I believe soccer and bribes will start to go away in the future is my guess.  More games live streamed.  College recruiting will be a blast for 2022s not signed yet. Now a video highlight real is in order.  I'm getting all my dd videos organized. Anyone on here know someone good with splicing and dicing videos?  Want to make some extra $$$.  PM me, thanks


Could you PLEASE quit whining about your blindness when your daughter was 10?  Please?  Do you think there is anyone here that hasn't heard you 50 times already?  People that aren't even on this forum are tired of hearing it.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Could you PLEASE quit whining about your blindness when your daughter was 10?  Please?  Do you think there is anyone here that hasn't heard you 50 times already?  People that aren't even on this forum are tired of hearing it.


Lester, I was only talking to my pal in the Mile hi state.  That was not for you or anyone else.  You can read it though.  Peace brah!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Could you PLEASE quit whining about your blindness when your daughter was 10?  Please?  Do you think there is anyone here that hasn't heard you 50 times already?  People that aren't even on this forum are tired of hearing it.


Think about all you wine about two.  It goes both ways Lester


----------



## espola

MSK357 said:


> We did have infection rate predictions.  Half of California is supposed to be infected.  You even said 7 million would die.  But I agree with you that IMHE resource numbers are better, they continue to lower their prediction.  As for Hospital usage forecaster, that's taking into consideration how many people they expect will be infected and hospitalized. (which means infection rate prediction included).


Aren't you supposed to be gone by now?


----------



## Sandypk

Mile High Dad said:


> I bet we all have stories. I am so glad my dd only has a couple of years left. 15 years of dealing with Club soccer with my kids. Old age, injuries and this Pandemic will hopefully get me through these next couple of years and I can enjoy watching soccer again and let the Club politics slide. Can't wait to get back on the sidelines again.


I agree.  We all have our own personal stories.  Stories we talk about with our closest friends or people we trust, not on a public forum. Of course we all need to vent from time to time and we are all very protective of our dd’s, yet we don’t repeatedly complain.  No one wants to hear constant negativity.   I am sure everyone has stories about their dd’s being mistreated or lied to or not given the same opportunities as the other girl.  But that happens in all sports with so many coaches.  It’s called competition and teaches our dd’s how to fight through the tough times and teaches us, as parents, how to guide them thru it all.  Unless your dd is being verbally or physically abused, it’s all part of competitive sports.   As parents we make some difficult decisions especially when our dds are young.  Right or wrong, we move on and try to choose the best fit for our kids.  When the soccer ends, I promise that you will wish for it back.  

I was just talking with a good friend of mine, our dds started out together in club when they were 7.  We laughed about how ridiculous our worries were back then.  Now we just miss watching our dds play and the families we have met along the way.  It’s not all about going pro or making the YNT.  There’s much more to soccer than chasing “the dream”.  If you’re not enjoying the ride, you are missing what’s most important in this journey.  Focusing on all the negative stuff is just plain dumb.


----------



## Ellejustus

"But that happens in all sports with so many coaches. It’s called competition and teaches our dd’s how to fight through the tough times and teaches us, as parents, how to guide them thru it all.* Unless your dd is being verbally or physically abused,* it’s all part of competitive sports"  Bribes and lies are was just a part of the games in the past and those days are over.
No more of that crap gonna happen.  I'm so glad, I can't wait.  Lester and Sandy, I will not share anymore about the past.  So sorry.  I will focus on the future and all the positives.  Thanks for correcting my writes.  I can;t wait for next season btw.  Maybe a little showcase in June for all the ECNL teams and all the college coaches can come watch.  2022s, it's time to shine.  Put all that excellent coaching to use and stop making excuses.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Think about all you wine about two.  It goes both ways Lester


No, TunaHelper, it doesn't.  You're here 24/7 and on every single thread... whining about how oblivious you were when your kid was 10.  All fucking day and every fucking day.  There isn't a person that's ever bought a black and white ball that hasn't heard your story 1000 times.  Enough already.  You and your 9 profiles need to let it go and move on to the present.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> No, TunaHelper, it doesn't.  You're here 24/7 and on every single thread... whining about how oblivious you were when your kid was 10.  All fucking day and every fucking day.  There isn't a person that's ever bought a black and white ball that hasn't heard your story 1000 times.  Enough already.  You and your 9 profiles need to let it go and move on to the present.


ok.  Can you or Sandy recommend a good video company to make high light of dd games from the last year or so?  Also, if you stop making fun of me and stop correcting my gramer, I will promise not to talk about how we left mid season one season long ago and pissed off a club.  Fair?  If I get out of line, then you and Sandy can online slap me.  Fair?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> ok.  Can you or Sandy recommend a good video company to make high light of dd games from the last year or so?  Also, if you stop making fun of me and stop correcting my gramer, I will promise not to talk about how we left mid season one season long ago and pissed off a club.  Fair?  If I get out of line, then you and Sandy can online slap me.  Fair?


Grammar, Spicoli.  G-R-A-M-M-A-R.  And no... I can't recommend anyone for you.  If I could, I would have.  I'd be willing to bet you could do a sufficient job yourself if you logged off this for 2 hours.  I do know, however, there are other threads here that talk about making a video and who people use for that and/or what type of recording device is best.  Fair?


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Grammar, Spicoli.  G-R-A-M-M-A-R.  And no... I can't recommend anyone for you.  If I could, I would have.  I'd be willing to bet you could do a sufficient job yourself if you logged off this for 2 hours.  I do know, however, there are other threads here that talk about making a video and who people use for that and/or what type of recording device is best.  Fair?


Fair


----------



## sirfootyalot

So will all So Cal DA teams go back to ECNL when the DA is terminated?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Fair


So here's one I found in just 2 minutes of looking, Spicoli.  There might be some newer posts in recruiting/college threads but it's a start.





__





						Have game films, now how to clip?
					

Hi, Please recommend free software to use to make recruitment videos. I have heard iMovie on Mac, what about PCs?



					www.socalsoccer.com


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> So here's one I found in just 2 minutes of looking, Spicoli.  There might be some newer posts in recruiting/college threads but it's a start.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have game films, now how to clip?
> 
> 
> Hi, Please recommend free software to use to make recruitment videos. I have heard iMovie on Mac, what about PCs?
> 
> 
> 
> www.socalsoccer.com


Thank you Mr Outlaw.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Thank you Mr Outlaw.


You're welcome.  Please don't add any commentary about Tad Bobak, or anyone else, crushing your DD's dream in 2012.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> You're welcome.  Please don't add any commentary about Tad Bobak, or anyone else, crushing your DD's dream in 2012.


I promise I promise. It was 2015 & 2016, not 2012 btw.  Have to correct fake news or wrong head lines like the drive by media does all the time


----------



## dad4

MSK357 said:


> We did have infection rate predictions.  Half of California is supposed to be infected.  You even said 7 million would die.  But I agree with you that IMHE resource numbers are better, they continue to lower their prediction.  As for Hospital usage forecaster, that's taking into consideration how many people they expect will be infected and hospitalized. (which means infection rate prediction included).


Is this post from the same MSK who claimed that swine flu is far worse than corona?

estimates of deaths from an *uncontrolled* outbreak;

7 million (me)
2.2 million (Imperial College, London)
1.5 to 2.2 million (CDC). 
far less than 12,000. (MSK)

whose estimate is out of line here?    mine is off by a factor of 3.  yours is off by a factor of 100 to 1000.

The main difference is that the London estimate did not try to factor in resource shortages.   places with a resource shortage (Wuhan) had a death rate of 3.4%.  Places without resource shortages (Korea) had a death rate closer to 0.9%.


----------



## espola

dad4 said:


> Is this post from the same MSK who claimed that swine flu is far worse than corona?
> 
> estimates of deaths from an *uncontrolled* outbreak;
> 
> 7 million (me)
> 2.2 million (Imperial College, London)
> 1.5 to 2.2 million (CDC).
> far less than 12,000. (MSK)
> 
> whose estimate is out of line here?    mine is off by a factor of 3.  yours is off by a factor of 100 to 1000.
> 
> The main difference is that the London estimate did not try to factor in resource shortages.   places with a resource shortage (Wuhan) had a death rate of 3.4%.  Places without resource shortages (Korea) had a death rate closer to 0.9%.


South Korea had a warning from what was happening in China,  had an aggressive public health program that back-traced the sick using technology (cell phone records), and had a population compliant with the government's program.


----------



## dad4

espola said:


> South Korea had a warning from what was happening in China,  had an aggressive public health program that back-traced the sick using technology (cell phone records), and had a population compliant with the government's program.


I don’t know how to distinguish the resource shortage effect from the early diagnosis effect.  Both are important, and they have been so tightly correlated it’s hard to find a place with one effect but not the other.

(put another way, if you are running out of hospital beds, you probably aren’t doing South Korea style contact tracing either.)


----------



## soccer4us

Strong rumors circulating both boys and girls DA will be dissolved going forward. Annoucment to come middle of next week. 

Have any of you heard this?  Trying to gauge how real this is


----------



## GT45

I have no idea if it is true or not. Have not heard the rumor. But, IF it is true, they can use the pandemic as an excuse to save face.


----------



## Ellejustus

soccer4us said:


> Strong rumors circulating both boys and girls DA will be dissolved going forward. Annoucment to come middle of next week.
> 
> Have any of you heard this?  Trying to gauge how real this is


I've been hearing rumors for a while.  Where are you hearing the rumors from?  I heard a rumor that there have been some meetings taking place with the higher ups.  I will check with my sources.  Leaking is going on that's for sure.  Anyone with some good intel on these big rumors?  Age change too? A round and a round we go......weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, so fun with all these changes!!!


----------



## GT45

sirfootyalot said:


> So will all So Cal DA teams go back to ECNL when the DA is terminated?


Only two DA clubs - Surf and OC Surf (West Coast) were ECNL before. Blues are already in ECNL.


----------



## espola

GT45 said:


> I have no idea if it is true or not. Have not heard the rumor. But, IF it is true, they can use the pandemic as an excuse to save face.


Good opportunity indeed.  The boys DA program has utterly failed to meet the objectives it stated at its founding, such as to enhance USA player development within 10 years, and along the way has made enemies of all the pre-existing centers of development (local clubs, ODP, high school, college).  The women's side has done just fine without any DA-style interference.


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## Soccerfan2

soccer4us said:


> Strong rumors circulating both boys and girls DA will be dissolved going forward. Annoucment to come middle of next week.
> 
> Have any of you heard this?  Trying to gauge how real this is


Have not heard this. Where is it coming from? What is a “strong” rumor?


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## futboldad1

GT45 said:


> Only two DA clubs - Surf and OC Surf (West Coast) were ECNL before. Blues are already in ECNL.


Real So Cal too.......


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## MSK357

dad4 said:


> Is this post from the same MSK who claimed that swine flu is far worse than corona?
> 
> estimates of deaths from an *uncontrolled* outbreak;
> 
> 7 million (me)
> 2.2 million (Imperial College, London)
> 1.5 to 2.2 million (CDC).
> far less than 12,000. (MSK)
> 
> whose estimate is out of line here?    mine is off by a factor of 3.  yours is off by a factor of 100 to 1000.
> 
> The main difference is that the London estimate did not try to factor in resource shortages.   places with a resource shortage (Wuhan) had a death rate of 3.4%.  Places without resource shortages (Korea) had a death rate closer to 0.9%.


Look chicken little, you're trying to hijack another post.  the fact is you said 7 million people would die. New "expert" predictions say its going to be 60,000 now.  lets see how far that continues to fall. So far 12,000 is much closer to 60,000 than 7 million or even 1.5 million. And we were on Stay at Home orders when you made that 7 million prediction.  Lets not forgot that for some reason we are counting coronavirus deaths for people that died from a different primary reason.  Even people that died that haven't been tested but show signs of coronavirus are counted as a coronavirus death. Very misleading.


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## GT45

futboldad1 said:


> Real So Cal too.......


My oversight. You are correct.


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## espola

MSK357 said:


> Look chicken little, you're trying to hijack another post.  the fact is you said 7 million people would die. New "expert" predictions say its going to be 60,000 now.  lets see how far that continues to fall. So far 12,000 is much closer to 60,000 than 7 million or even 1.5 million. And we were on Stay at Home orders when you made that 7 million prediction.  Lets not forgot that for some reason we are counting coronavirus deaths for people that died from a different primary reason.  Even people that died that haven't been tested but show signs of coronavirus are counted as a coronavirus death. Very misleading.


Please continue, weasel.


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## Surf Zombie

If (and it’s a very big if) the GDA comes to an end, which of the So Cal clubs do you think the ECNL picks up?  

101 ECNL clubs nationwide (counting the announced GDA defections for next year) and 46 GDA clubs. What would the ECNL take, 20 GDA clubs?


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## timbuck

If GDA does away, does ECNL need to add anything?
ECNL was on the attack trying to bring clubs over because they felt their league was better than DA.  If the competition no longer exists, what incentive does ECNL have to bring on more clubs?  Do they go back to 2016 and only let in their "favorites"?


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## Surf Zombie

I think the incentive is to shore up some regions where the travel isn’t great (mid west & Texas) and then add the top of the food chain clubs. If there are too many power clubs left out of ECNL there is a risk of those clubs forming some type of league to compete with ECNL. If you bring the Surf, FC Dallas  & Top Hat’s of the world into the ECNL fold the league is strengthened and the risk of a competing league is minimized.


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## MSK357

espola said:


> Please continue, weasel.


shouldn't you be dead by now?


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## outside!

Too bad ECNL won't go away.


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## soccer4us

Where I last heard was via a few GDA coaches and some other adults with very close connection to the situation. The reasoning I was told, new president doesn't want to spend 9 million(I guess that's how much it costs to run the program) on DA with millions tied up in lawsuits and now without making as much money with COVID-19 situation.  Again, it's a rumor and nothing certain but I've heard it from enough places today where I'm starting to think it could have some truth to it. I guess we'll find out next week either way.

If this happens, I'd assume it would be hard for ECNL to say no to the TOP TOP clubs. There may not be room for just a good club thought. It would cause lots of have especially towards the end of the soccer year.


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## futboldad1

Surf Zombie said:


> If (and it’s a very big if) the GDA comes to an end, which of the So Cal clubs do you think the ECNL picks up?
> 
> 101 ECNL clubs nationwide (counting the announced GDA defections for next year) and 46 GDA clubs. What would the ECNL take, 20 GDA clubs?


Doesn't the GDA has a lot more than 46 clubs even after the defections...?


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## Surf Zombie

futboldad1 said:


> Doesn't the GDA has a lot more than 46 clubs even after the defections...?


 You are right. I just looked. 57 clubs at U17.


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## sirfootyalot

Surf Zombie said:


> If (and it’s a very big if) the GDA comes to an end, which of the So Cal clubs do you think the ECNL picks up?
> 
> 101 ECNL clubs nationwide (counting the announced GDA defections for next year) and 46 GDA clubs. What would the ECNL take, 20 GDA clubs?


DA is done and the announce should come in the next week or so. I’m just curious which clubs from so cal will be joining the ECNL.


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## dad4

Glad to hear it, even if in rumor form.

Hope ECNL just treats it as a merger and accepts the DA teams as a block.


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## Ellejustus

sirfootyalot said:


> DA is done and the announce should come in the next week or so. I’m just curious which clubs from so cal will be joining the ECNL.


I have a few rumors on that, but I will see what others have to say on that subject.  What went down regarding age change back to school year?


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## Desert Hound

sirfootyalot said:


> DA is done and the announce should come in the next week or so. I’m just curious which clubs from so cal will be joining the ECNL.


You have the inside scoop? Just got off the phone with the brass at US Soccer?


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## timbuck

What happens to DPL?  How will those parents be able to deal with telling friends that their kid is “just” playing scdsl now?


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## GT45

If ECNL accepts them all it will be such a water downed product. Plus they would not have the field space at showcases for all these clubs. ECNL should take top clubs like Surf (a former founding member), but not clubs like Pats. I also can see them shoring up travel in other parts of the country. But, So Cal doesn't need that. There are plenty of ECNL clubs already here.


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## espola

MSK357 said:


> shouldn't you be dead by now?


The virus hasn't got me because I have been practicing the appropriate isolation and sanitation measures.  Haven't you been doing that also?

I have died in the old-fashioned sense at least twice already, but not from a virus.


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## soccer4us

If this happens, no way ECNL accept them all. Not feasible especially finding space at national showcase events at one big complex. 

It will be hard for them to say no to Surf, Legends, Beach, etc but the normal good club, I can see them on the outside looking in. One thing for sure, ECNL president is now most powerful person in elite youth soccer! How he deals with so cal and Texas IF this happens will be very interesting. Some clubs out there will be going insane and parents trying to jump right away once announcement comes.


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## dad4

GT45 said:


> If ECNL accepts them all it will be such a water downed product. Plus they would not have the field space at showcases for all these clubs. ECNL should take top clubs like Surf (a former founding member), but not clubs like Pats. I also can see them shoring up travel in other parts of the country. But, So Cal doesn't need that. There are plenty of ECNL clubs already here.


Watered down has its merits.

I dont really want to fly to Vegas or Utah, just for a game.  playing the best teams in a 2 hour radius would work fine.


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## Surf Zombie

I was told by someone who I know that is dialed in with ECNL that the league’s plan was to max out at between 110-120 clubs.


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## timbuck

Didn’t ecnl announce some sort of promotion/relegation with NPL in a Nor Cal?  Will that be the model everywhere?


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## Desert Hound

timbuck said:


> Didn’t ecnl announce some sort of promotion/relegation with NPL in a Nor Cal?  Will that be the model everywhere?


They did. Just on the boys side.


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## GT45

dad4 said:


> Watered down has its merits.
> 
> I dont really want to fly to Vegas or Utah, just for a game.  playing the best teams in a 2 hour radius would work fine.


SCDSL has a league for you then. And, AZ has two ECNL teams.


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## Kicknit22

Surf Zombie said:


> I was told by someone who I know that is dialed in with ECNL that the league’s plan was to max out at between 110-120 clubs.


How many current ECNL Clubs?  Just curious.


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## kickingandscreaming

Kicknit22 said:


> How many current ECNL Clubs?  Just curious.


I count 96 in U16


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## Surf Zombie

kickingandscreaming said:


> I count 96 in U16


Plus the five going over for next year is 101
(RC getting two teams)


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## whatithink

Surf Zombie said:


> Plus the five going over for next year is 101
> (RC getting two teams)


Assuming its all true, would ECNL rescind on the two team clubs to make room for additional members. The war is won, so there would be no need for them to 'negotiate' and nowhere else for those clubs to go.


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## Surf Zombie

Wish that were the case, but most of the two team clubs are the ones who control ECNL, so doubt it.


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## dad4

GT45 said:


> SCDSL has a league for you then. And, AZ has two ECNL teams.


Why would I want SCDSL?

What I want is to let her play against the top teams close by.  Not to watch her score a hat trick against the second tier every weekend until her skills sag for lack of competition.

Besides, I’m up in norcal.   Next step down is ECNL regional or NPL.  There isn’t much left once the ECNL/DA teams get on the plane and fly off.


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## Ellejustus

dad4 said:


> Why would I want SCDSL?
> 
> What I want is to let her play against the top teams close by.  Not to watch her score a hat trick against the second tier every weekend until her skills sag for lack of competition.
> 
> Besides, I’m up in norcal.   Next step down is ECNL regional or NPL.  There isn’t much left once the ECNL/DA teams get on the plane and fly off.


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## Mile High Dad

Surf Zombie said:


> Wish that were the case, but most of the two team clubs are the ones who control ECNL, so doubt it.


Plus the 2 team clubs committed to ECNL, kind of a show of faith in the League and that should account for something.


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## Messi>CR7

Mile High Dad said:


> Plus the 2 team clubs committed to ECNL, kind of a show of faith in the League and that should account for something.


If this is all true, whoever runs Real Colorado is the smartest man in soccer today......got two ECNL teams instead of going down with the ship.


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## Sandypk

Messi>CR7 said:


> If this is all true, whoever runs Real Colorado is the smartest man in soccer today......got two ECNL teams instead of going down with the ship.


How is it going down with the ship? The DA’s will have the same teams, same coaches.  Just a different league.
The strong DA teams will just whoop everyone’s asses whether they are in the DA or ECNL or SCDSL.  If they are a strong team, the league won’t matter.


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## wc_baller

Sandypk said:


> How is it going down with the ship? The DA’s will have the same teams, same coaches. * Just a different league.*
> The strong DA teams will just whoop everyone’s asses whether they are in the DA or ECNL or SCDSL.  If they are a strong team, the league won’t matter.


If this is true, they have no league, and will be scrambling to find a new one. That's the entire point.


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## Ellejustus

Sandypk said:


> How is it going down with the ship? The DA’s will have the same teams, same coaches.  Just a different league.
> The strong DA teams will just whoop everyone’s asses whether they are in the DA or ECNL or SCDSL.  If they are a strong team, the league won’t matter.


Good luck keeping all the players on those teams.  I hope you gots a good TM Sandy.  SW ECNL top league will be very tough.  We need to know if Beach, Legends and Surf are joining?  I haven;t heard much from that side lately.  Boys?


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## The Outlaw *BANNED*

dad4 said:


> Why would I want SCDSL?
> 
> What I want is to let her play against the top teams close by.  Not to watch her score a hat trick against the second tier every weekend until her skills sag for lack of competition.
> 
> Besides, I’m up in norcal.   Next step down is ECNL regional or NPL.  There isn’t much left once the ECNL/DA teams get on the plane and fly off.


I'm not sure DA is any stronger than many ECNL or NPL teams in NorCal now.  I guess it depends on the age but all DA did was remove themselves from playing a variety of teams and adding a bigger cost to their soccer budgets.  Flying to Salt Lake, Phoenix or Seattle to play a game, when there's 5 equally strong teams within a 90 minute drive, is complete foolishness in my opinion.  For what... the patch?


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## Sandypk

The Outlaw said:


> I'm not sure DA is any stronger than many ECNL or NPL teams in NorCal now.  I guess it depends on the age but all DA did was remove themselves from playing a variety of teams and adding a bigger cost to their soccer budgets.  Flying to Salt Lake, Phoenix or Seattle to play a game, when there's 5 equally strong teams within a 90 minute drive, is complete foolishness in my opinion.  For what... the patch?


I didn’t care too much about Seattle or Phoenix, but watching some of those Texas girls was amazing. Some future WNT players for sure.  That was worth it!


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## GT45

Sandypk said:


> How is it going down with the ship? The DA’s will have the same teams, same coaches.  Just a different league.
> The strong DA teams will just whoop everyone’s asses whether they are in the DA or ECNL or SCDSL.  If they are a strong team, the league won’t matter.


The players will leave those clubs if DA ends, and ECNL does not pick them up.


----------



## Mile High Dad

Sandypk said:


> I didn’t care too much about Seattle or Phoenix, but watching some of those Texas girls was amazing. Some future WNT players for sure.  That was worth it!


Our trips to Texas to play FC or Solar DA teams were well worth it but then it was followed up by going to play the Kansas/Missouri/Oklahoma "DA" teams


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## Sandypk

Mile High Dad said:


> Our trips to Texas to play FC or Solar were well worth it but then it was followed up by going to play the Kansas/Missouri/Oklahoma teams


Good point!


----------



## BigSoccer

Glenn Crooks on XMFC tweeted about it today.  Both boys and girls possibly going away.  Announcement from the leagues tomorrow possibly.


----------



## espola

BigSoccer said:


> Glenn Crooks on XMFC tweeted about it today.  Both boys and girls possibly going away.  Announcement from the leagues tomorrow possibly.


This Glenn Crooks?

_There are rumblings in the soccer community that the US Soccer Development Academy - on the girls AND boys side - may be terminated.  _


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## From the Spot

Ellejustus said:


> We need to know if Beach, Legends and Surf are joining?


What league did Beach and Legends top teams play in before GDA formed?


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## Sandypk

From the Spot said:


> What league did Beach and Legends top teams play in before GDA formed?


SCDSL and CRL


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## gotothebushes

Socal has the strongest teams by far so what ever happens Socal teams should make an united stand and stick together. California and Texas rules soccer!!


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## Ellejustus

*Happy Easter 2020!!!*​Everyone is forgive   Make it great a day and God Bless you all!!!


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## LASTMAN14

LASTMAN14 said:


> We all discount the privileges that our society/state/country do offer us. Like an education, running water, indoor plumbing, Starbucks, medical care, etc. But nothing beats the privilege of finding a Pliny The Elder.


Apparently Total Wine has a policy on PTheE. Buy as many as you want 7 days a week. No only 2 bottles per customer on Friday.‍


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