# It's all in a name....



## sbay (Aug 17, 2016)

can someone please develop a way to figure out the names of all these teams?

Academy, premier, elite, platinum, pda, silver, gold, black, and on and on...

To make matters worse there are clubs with multiple teams like strikers and FCGS that have east west or city names.  How do you make sense of these names?

We played an academy team that was really not an academy team and a premier team that wasn't premier in my mind of what premier is??  Then we played a team with nothing attached except a location that kicked butt...can't there be a system in place?

Then some change their names for tournaments?  Let's keep it simple folks.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 17, 2016)

I agree. But what a huge eye opener for me is the discrepancy between 'A' teams, 'B' teams, Flight 1, Flight 2 among different clubs. One clubs B team could literally badly beat anothers A team, same with Flight 1 and 2 teams. Then there are the Bronze/Silver teams that show up at a tournament and kill everyone 10-0, etc and are in 1st place by 20 points while everyone else is neck and neck. There needs to be a system that reflects how long a team has played together, how many years experience the girls have, game wins, tournament champions etc. I know that is next to mpossible though :/


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## Dargle (Aug 17, 2016)

It's mostly marketing, although in part clubs use it to distinguish among multiple teams within the same age group.  Academy doesn't mean anything unless they are a USSDA club, in which case they usually use that designation rather than Academy.  PDA is used to signify Pre-Development Academy, which could be significant in a USSDA club, but because it is for ages before Dev. Academy kicks in, it is quite loose.  For example, several USSDA clubs have a PDA-I and PDA-II team, which basically means they have about 24 kids who are in the group of kids they are considering for Academy at U12.  Problem is that if the PDA-II team is playing Flight II, for example, which I have seen, then that is probably an admission that the "PDA-II" designation means those kids aren't really being considered on par with the PDA-I kids and at most only a few of them would actually be candidates for Academy next year (and, in truth, those clubs could easily recruit an entirely new team for academy and the PDA designation only meant that they were the best of what they had at the time).

The colors like gold, black, white etc, are usually just the way clubs distinguish between teams at the age group and they represent the colors of the club uniforms.  There are plenty of red, white, and blue teams too.  A few clubs use the Coast Soccer League designation to identify the teams, in which case premier and silver actually mean something very specific.  Otherwise, they are just names to indicate the order of their teams.

As for the directional add-ons, that is a function of club mergers that have made almost every team a surf, striker, FCGS, Pateadores, TFA etc.  In many cases, if the team has a directional signal after their name, all bets are off about quality because they are really just a different club altogether from the mother ship.


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## espola (Aug 17, 2016)

sbay said:


> can someone please develop a way to figure out the names of all these teams?
> 
> Academy, premier, elite, platinum, pda, silver, gold, black, and on and on...
> 
> ...


Looks like pointless marketing to me, but I can see that no one wants to name their team the Dustbowl Uglies.  You missed one of the team names that gets under my skin - <something> United - when they are created out of the blue and didn't "unite" anything.


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## mahrez (Aug 17, 2016)

Marketing plan & simple.

The names change to the latest buzz words "elite" seems to be the popular one this year.

Perceived reality to believe is something to unite for a cause can be positive but we need to reconsider the soccer like caste system where the "top" teams are treated royally or differently vs others as far as resources: coaches, training, fields, etc.


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## SOCCERMINION (Aug 17, 2016)

One of my biggest complaints,is that in a single club there is ECNL, ECNL Reserve, EGSL, Flight 1. 
Next year there will be DA, DA-Reserve, ECNL, ECNL-Reserve, EGSL and Flight 1 teams.
I mean come on parents. What? We cannot admit that our kids are on the clubs B-Team and are not playing Flight 1. So now the Clubs need to keep Making up New team names so parents can tell the Jones their Kid is on the (insert Acronym here) team. Oh, because little Jenny's Parents believe she MUST play on the A-team, the Clubs are forced to come up with new Marketing and Team names for all the little Jenny's that are not top team players. It should be Simple.
Club Name/Age:1st Team
Club Name/Age:2nd Team
Club Name/Age: 3rd Team
Club name/Age: 4th Team
Could you amagine how easy that would make things, who cares what patches they have on their jersey, they are just listed and called 1st,2nd 3rd ect. , team. 
Bracket A
Socal Blues 2000 : 2nd Team
Surf 2000: 3rd Team
Legends 2000: 1st Team
Slammers 2000: 2nd Team
Aresenal 2000:2nd Team
But its only a dream. Can't wait to see the new marketing ideas coming from the clubs next year as GDA starts.


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## espola (Aug 17, 2016)

SOCCERMINION said:


> One of my biggest complaints,is that in a single club there is ECNL, ECNL Reserve, EGSL, Flight 1.
> Next year there will be DA, DA-Reserve, ECNL, ECNL-Reserve, EGSL and Flight 1 teams.
> I mean come on parents. What? We cannot admit that our kids are on the clubs B-Team and are not playing Flight 1. So now the Clubs need to keep Making up New team names so parents can tell the Jones their Kid is on the (insert Acronym here) team. Oh, because little Jenny's Parents believe she MUST play on the A-team, the Clubs are forced to come up with new Marketing and Team names for all the little Jenny's that are not top team players. It should be Simple.
> Club Name/Age:1st Team
> ...


When I was on the local club board and for a time the VP for competitive teams, we defined our teams as Green-White-Black in supposed declining order of quality.  However, there were some issues because players/parents wanted to be with a certain coach, or declined the invitation to the higher-level team so they could stay with their buddies.  Fortunately for me, the year when the B team beat the A team in a couple of tournaments and finished ahead in the league standings happened before my tenure, so I didn't have to deal with teams and coaches who felt slighted moving to a neighboring club.


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## mirage (Aug 17, 2016)

You're just jealous.  Must be a parent that is your kid is not on the "Elite SoCal Premier FC, Platinum Academy I West" team....

Oh yeah, we use the name "Elite SoCal Premier FC, Platinum Academy I West Select" in tournaments....


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## SoccerDad77 (Aug 17, 2016)

mahrez said:


> Marketing plan & simple.
> 
> The names change to the latest buzz words "elite" seems to be the popular one this year.
> 
> Perceived reality to believe is something to unite for a cause can be positive but we need to reconsider the soccer like caste system where the "top" teams are treated royally or differently vs others as far as resources: coaches, training, fields, etc.


You like bringing this up don't you? Is your son/daughter on a "bottom" team? Of course clubs put their best resources into the best talent... Typically, those are the players that make the club successful (improve the club reputation by going on to play in college/win big tournaments/get selected for national teams/ play professionally/etc.), things clubs can market to keep the machine humming along... small minority of the time do you see a lower level player end up "making it" whatever definition you choose for that to mean...  What's the alternative? Would you prefer the best coaches and fields go to the worse players and the top kids get inferior coaching and facilities? Or better yet, the best coaches just coach 8-10 teams? Imagine the hissy fit parents here would throw if that was the case...


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## espola (Aug 17, 2016)

SoccerDad77 said:


> You like bringing this up don't you? Is your son/daughter on a "bottom" team? Of course clubs put their best resources into the best talent... Typically, those are the players that make the club successful (improve the club reputation by going on to play in college/win big tournaments/get selected for national teams/ play professionally/etc.), things clubs can market to keep the machine humming along... small minority of the time do you see a lower level player end up "making it" whatever definition you choose for that to mean...  What's the alternative? Would you prefer the best coaches and fields go to the worse players and the top kids get inferior coaching and facilities? Or better yet, the best coaches just coach 8-10 teams? Imagine the hissy fit parents here would throw if that was the case...


If a club is seriously committed to player development, they would focus their best efforts (coaches, fields, whatever) on those who would best benefit from that effort.  That might mean improving weaker players a great deal rather than holding their best players at about the same level.


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## LadiesMan217 (Aug 17, 2016)

SOCCERMINION said:


> One of my biggest complaints,is that in a single club there is ECNL, ECNL Reserve, EGSL, Flight 1.
> Next year there will be DA, DA-Reserve, ECNL, ECNL-Reserve, EGSL and Flight 1 teams.
> I mean come on parents. What? We cannot admit that our kids are on the clubs B-Team and are not playing Flight 1. So now the Clubs need to keep Making up New team names so parents can tell the Jones their Kid is on the (insert Acronym here) team. Oh, because little Jenny's Parents believe she MUST play on the A-team, the Clubs are forced to come up with new Marketing and Team names for all the little Jenny's that are not top team players. It should be Simple.
> Club Name/Age:1st Team
> ...



I don't think there will be "reserve" teams next year. Currently the "reserve" team is the team that is taking that ECNL spot when the current ECNL team moves to DA. This is a 1 year thing I was told to get a head start of building teams to fill the new hierarchy.


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## Wez (Aug 17, 2016)

espola said:


> If a club is seriously committed to player development


In theory, aren't they all?



espola said:


> they would focus their best efforts (coaches, fields, whatever) on those who would best benefit from that effort.  That might mean improving weaker players a great deal rather than holding their best players at about the same level.


How do you know a weaker player will rise to the occasion?  Hasn't a stronger player already responded well to quality instruction?  When I say "stronger" I don't just mean a big strong kid, I mean a kid who shows great soccer skills and passion regardless of size.

We know club results at high profile events is how they gain credibility and attract talent, so you clearly can't spend too much of your time hoping weaker players start to develop a passion not previously there....


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## socalkdg (Aug 17, 2016)

SoccerDad77 said:


> What's the alternative? Would you prefer the best coaches and fields go to the worse players and the top kids get inferior coaching and facilities? Or better yet, the best coaches just coach 8-10 teams? Imagine the hissy fit parents here would throw if that was the case...


This is an interesting dilemma, as more practice time from a better coach is going to make a kid better thus increasing the gap between the best and worst kids.  If everyone is paying the same amount, should they have access to equal coaching?  

If you choose faster stronger to train now, leaving everyone else out, what happens when the slower weaker end up becoming the faster stronger as they get older? Just as we should try kids at multiple positions when they are younger, maybe better coaching for all levels while they are young is something that should also be considered.


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## mahrez (Aug 17, 2016)

SoccerDad77 said:


> You like bringing this up don't you? Is your son/daughter on a "bottom" team? Of course clubs put their best resources into the best talent... Typically, those are the players that make the club successful (improve the club reputation by going on to play in college/win big tournaments/get selected for national teams/ play professionally/etc.), things clubs can market to keep the machine humming along... small minority of the time do you see a lower level player end up "making it" whatever definition you choose for that to mean...  What's the alternative?


My son plays in the Ussda league and daughter in ECNL.

You treat players and teams as equal at least.

Shouldn't more resources be given to those that can benefit the most?

Forget about the a,b,c or whatever you want to call a team.  Have them all train by age group together as much as possible and see how as a group everybody improves or benefits from the available resources: coaches, fields, players, etc.


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## han78216 (Aug 17, 2016)

In Norcal, De Anza Force implemented a new team designation scheme with age group change.

USSDA
ECNL
Year/Sex team number - 05B I, 06G II, 06B III, etc

I'm pretty sure other clubs don't like it since it clearly shows team 3 is in same flight as their top team.


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## pulguita (Aug 17, 2016)

mahrez said:


> My son plays in the Ussda league and daughter in ECNL.
> 
> You treat players and teams as equal at least.
> 
> ...


Nice in theory doesn't work in reality.  A level 3 player will benefit playing against a level 1 but not vice versa.  Your best players will suffer for it and they will eventually leave.


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## younothat (Aug 17, 2016)

pulguita said:


> Nice in theory doesn't work in reality.  A level 3 player will benefit playing against a level 1 but not vice versa.  Your best players will suffer for it and they will eventually leave.


Seen it work in reality so I'm going to disagree with you.  Of course,  you need a big enough pool so there is enough level 1,2,3's whatever to make it work


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## SOCCERMINION (Aug 17, 2016)

han78216 said:


> In Norcal, De Anza Force implemented a new team designation scheme with age group change.
> 
> USSDA
> ECNL
> ...


This should become a standard model for all the clubs. Especially when posing teams in league play and tournaments. De Anza always seems to do things the right way.


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## sbay (Aug 17, 2016)

This moved into a different direction for sure!  My gripe was just you can't tell which team is which and what apron level they play in and every team does things differently.  It would be nice to have a little structure is all so when you head to a tourney and you have never heard of the team you can understand a bit more about them.  Especially true for larger clubs and those with multiple locations such as east west inland empire irvine etc.  you get my drift?  some structure would be cool...


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## sbay (Aug 17, 2016)

SOCCERMINION said:


> One of my biggest complaints,is that in a single club there is ECNL, ECNL Reserve, EGSL, Flight 1.
> Next year there will be DA, DA-Reserve, ECNL, ECNL-Reserve, EGSL and Flight 1 teams.
> I mean come on parents. What? We cannot admit that our kids are on the clubs B-Team and are not playing Flight 1. So now the Clubs need to keep Making up New team names so parents can tell the Jones their Kid is on the (insert Acronym here) team. Oh, because little Jenny's Parents believe she MUST play on the A-team, the Clubs are forced to come up with new Marketing and Team names for all the little Jenny's that are not top team players. It should be Simple.
> Club Name/Age:1st Team
> ...



YES!!!!!!!!!!!!  I would vote YES!  where to put the location...east west irvine mission viejo though?


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## han78216 (Aug 17, 2016)

I think naming is done purposely and the purpose is to confuse parents.... I'm being totally serious.


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## sbay (Aug 17, 2016)

han78216 said:


> In Norcal, De Anza Force implemented a new team designation scheme with age group change.
> 
> USSDA
> ECNL
> ...



yes!  this is soon simple!  we need this is socal


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## han78216 (Aug 17, 2016)

sbay said:


> yes!  this is soon simple!  we need this is socal


in case you have too many kids for the top flight, then you use A/B designation.

05B IA
05B IB
05B II


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## SoccerDad77 (Aug 17, 2016)

younothat said:


> Seen it work in reality so I'm going to disagree with you.  Of course,  you need a big enough pool so there is enough level 1,2,3's whatever to make it work


How would a top level player benefit from consistently training with/against weaker opposition? please explain how that makes sense... Iron sharpens iron, no? I understand how the weaker players would improve, and I understand how it would benefit the club as a whole... How on earth would that benefit an elite player?


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## younothat (Aug 17, 2016)

SoccerDad77 said:


> How would a top level player benefit from consistently training with/against weaker opposition? please explain how that makes sense... Iron sharpens iron, no? I understand how the weaker players would improve, and I understand how it would benefit the club as a whole... How on earth would that benefit an elite player?


So at work do you separate/segregate  workers based on ability?  Only the best workers work together and all the other get to work with groups made of employees with lesser abilities.  Of course not!

Have you ever done age group training with a group of players at different levels?  When you have enough players at a certain level,  good training, and coaching there is plenty of "iron" to sharpen the iron.

Benefits all the players, club,  and gives them something different rather than the same 14-16 players they normally train with all the time.  Nobody is suggesting all the training should be age group only but rather as much as possible as indicated by the first poster that suggested this.

Some clubs started the age group training last year to go along with the calender year change but then went back to the old ways after tryouts.  People where happy in general about the age group training concept but most clubs failed to follow through.  The calender year change seems like the ideal time to implement regular age group trainings.

If your only concern is what might be best for a small population of "elite" players then why join a club in the first place?  How are we going to raise the level of soccer for everybody by focusing on such as small group of players?   Sharing resources like the fields, coaches, and players is one way to help equalize the current divide.


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## pulguita (Aug 17, 2016)

younothat said:


> Seen it work in reality so I'm going to disagree with you.  Of course,  you need a big enough pool so there is enough level 1,2,3's whatever to make it work


Was your kid a 1, 2 or 3?  What club in socal is big enough were they had 20 - 24 #1's.  That does not exist anywhere in So Cal because not 1 ECNL or top non ECNL team can make that claim.


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## pulguita (Aug 17, 2016)

younothat said:


> So at work do you separate/segregate  workers based on ability?  Only the best workers work together and all the other get to work with groups made of employees with lesser abilities.  Of course not!
> 
> Have you ever done age group training with a group of players at different levels?  When you have enough players at a certain level,  good training, and coaching there is plenty of "iron" to sharpen the iron.
> 
> ...


Have you ever seen the Barca 1st team train with the segunda team as whole?  The answer is no.  The level of the segunda team is not going to help the 1st team.  That is why they only move a couple into the rotation so it benefits the lower player but is not a general detriment to the 1st team players.  In local perspective if you are on the top team in your club do you train with or against the lower teams on a regular basis?  Please tell me how that benefits the A team?


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## younothat (Aug 17, 2016)

pulguita said:


> Have you ever seen the Barca 1st team train with the segunda team as whole?  The answer is no.  The level of the segunda team is not going to help the 1st team.  That is why they only move a couple into the rotation so it benefits the lower player but is not a general detriment to the 1st team players.  In local perspective if you are on the top team in your club do you train with or against the lower teams on a regular basis?  Please tell me how that benefits the A team?


For pro soccer that might be the case but the Barcelona Youth academy does group training by age groups.

The training exercises at La Masia are the same for every team, regardless of whether it is the U8 or U16 team.

The philosophy of treating everyone equally is very important at Barcelona, this is simply because they understand that the students could be future first team players and therefore deserve to be treated in this way.

Interclub soccer is not about training against your own other teams but with your players in the age group that are part of that club.   Why is what only benefits the "A" team your primary concern?


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## timbuck (Aug 17, 2016)

I've never seen any of them train.  Who knows.


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## pulguita (Aug 17, 2016)

younothat said:


> For pro soccer that might be the case but the Barcelona Youth academy does group training by age groups.
> 
> The training exercises at La Masia are the same for every team, regardless of whether it is the U8 or U16 team.
> 
> ...


They are the same training programs for everybody but there are A and B teams and other than generalized skill training they do not train as a combined group.  So if you are talking about a club wide skill night where everyone trains together by age ok.  But they do not once you get to a team environment and tactical instruction.


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## younothat (Aug 17, 2016)

pulguita said:


> Was your kid a 1, 2 or 3?  What club in socal is big enough were they had 20 - 24 #1's.  That does not exist anywhere in So Cal because not 1 ECNL or top non ECNL team can make that claim.


Both my kids are 1's  I've been told but neither started that way.   They will train with friends, clubs members, schoolmates or whomever.  I have never heard them say that training with those players is not beneficial to both parties, rarely are the kids at the same level either. 

There are clubs with 6 or more teams in an age group so why can't they find enough players to have meaningful group training sessions?   I've seen these work /w smaller numbers also say 10 #1 and around the same amout of #2's for example.


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## SoccerDad77 (Aug 18, 2016)

younothat said:


> So at work do you separate/segregate  workers based on ability?  Only the best workers work together and all the other get to work with groups made of employees with lesser abilities.  Of course not!
> 
> Have you ever done age group training with a group of players at different levels?  When you have enough players at a certain level,  good training, and coaching there is plenty of "iron" to sharpen the iron.
> 
> ...


Why join a club in the first place? To play with other players of elite ability level no? If you wanted to train and play with weaker players, save yourself thousands and stay in Rec  soccer...


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## Sped (Aug 18, 2016)

han78216 said:


> in case you have too many kids for the top flight, then you use A/B designation.
> 
> 05B IA
> 05B IB
> 05B II


Alternatively, just use the league they play in - 05B SDDA 1 etc.


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## jrcaesar (Aug 18, 2016)

SoccerDad77 said:


> Why join a club in the first place? To play with other players of elite ability level no? If you wanted to train and play with weaker players, save yourself thousands and stay in Rec  soccer...


True ... Although that can also be said of the players on the so-called 2nd team.


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## mahrez (Aug 18, 2016)

jrcaesar said:


> True ... Although that can also be said of the players on the so-called 2nd team.


Yeah and the 3-6 team in the age group as well.

Soccer dad, I get your prospective about the "elite" players which if fine.  What I'm referring to is all the players in a club.  The other 5 teams in the age group or 190 teams in a club such as Pats.

Don't they all deserve to be treated equally and share in resources of the community?

If they need iron to sharpen iron where do suppose they have access to the iron?

How do suppose these other players and teams improve? By only playing against themselfs with coaches or trainers not at a higher level?

If somebody in your community needs mentoring, assistance, or help do you send your best people or only those at the same level or lower as the requesters?

We normally  form& join communities for the greater good not just to serve a elite or small number of users.


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## pulguita (Aug 18, 2016)

mahrez said:


> Yeah and the 3-6 team in the age group as well.
> 
> Soccer dad, I get your prospective about the "elite" players which if fine.  What I'm referring to is all the players in a club.  The other 5 teams in the age group or 190 teams in a club such as Pats.
> 
> ...


This is not socialism this is club soccer.  When looking for a club it was best team with the best coach with the best players for the level of my kid.  It was not gee will we train with B and C players too.  You are advocating an AYSO  mentality for club.  There is no truly professional club in the US they are all a degree of Rec.  Why do I say that?  If the club was truly professional there would be tryouts every year for the A and B squad.  There is a 1 year commitment.  At the end of the year you are asked to stay or leave.  Everyone is fully paid for.  There is no parent intervention.  You do what the club says.  If they keep you you eventually get to the first team,  If not you are sold for a fee to another team.  Don't think anyone here in the states is ready for that.  So I will look for the environment that provides my child with what I believe is the best developmental environment.  Further, does every student deserve to be in an AP class or honors class?  They all deserve great teachers but don't confuse those in the class with the teacher.  I believe clubs should provide the same quality of trainer regardless of level.  That is easier said then done.


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## MakeAPlay (Aug 18, 2016)

Dargle said:


> It's mostly marketing, although in part clubs use it to distinguish among multiple teams within the same age group.  Academy doesn't mean anything unless they are a USSDA club, in which case they usually use that designation rather than Academy.  PDA is used to signify Pre-Development Academy, which could be significant in a USSDA club, but because it is for ages before Dev. Academy kicks in, it is quite loose.  For example, several USSDA clubs have a PDA-I and PDA-II team, which basically means they have about 24 kids who are in the group of kids they are considering for Academy at U12.  Problem is that if the PDA-II team is playing Flight II, for example, which I have seen, then that is probably an admission that the "PDA-II" designation means those kids aren't really being considered on par with the PDA-I kids and at most only a few of them would actually be candidates for Academy next year (and, in truth, those clubs could easily recruit an entirely new team for academy and the PDA designation only meant that they were the best of what they had at the time).
> 
> The colors like gold, black, white etc, are usually just the way clubs distinguish between teams at the age group and they represent the colors of the club uniforms.  There are plenty of red, white, and blue teams too.  A few clubs use the Coast Soccer League designation to identify the teams, in which case premier and silver actually mean something very specific.  Otherwise, they are just names to indicate the order of their teams.
> 
> As for the directional add-ons, that is a function of club mergers that have made almost every team a surf, striker, FCGS, Pateadores, TFA etc.  In many cases, if the team has a directional signal after their name, all bets are off about quality because they are really just a different club altogether from the mother ship.



Umm PDA means Players Development Academy.  I know that you are being tongue in cheek but...


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## han78216 (Aug 18, 2016)

pulguita said:


> This is not socialism this is club soccer.  When looking for a club it was best team with the best coach with the best players for the level of my kid.  It was not gee will we train with B and C players too.  You are advocating an AYSO  mentality for club.  There is no truly professional club in the US they are all a degree of Rec.  Why do I say that?  If the club was truly professional there would be tryouts every year for the A and B squad.  There is a 1 year commitment.  At the end of the year you are asked to stay or leave.  Everyone is fully paid for.  There is no parent intervention.  You do what the club says.  If they keep you you eventually get to the first team,  If not you are sold for a fee to another team.  Don't think anyone here in the states is ready for that.  So I will look for the environment that provides my child with what I believe is the best developmental environment.  Further, does every student deserve to be in an AP class or honors class?  They all deserve great teachers but don't confuse those in the class with the teacher.  I believe clubs should provide the same quality of trainer regardless of level.  That is easier said then done.


If my kid was in the first team, I would want my kid to practice with players in first team only.

But if my was in the second team, I would want him to practice with first team players. 
He will be motivated and will improve if you practice with others better than you.

It's not an easy problem to solve.

If your club is large enough then there are ways to make it happen.

Let's say there are 5 teams in your age group. There is no point of having team 1 practice against team 5.
It will be just waste of everyone's time.

How about 2/3 weekly practices, the team practice by itself. 
For one of practices, you practice with upper team one week. and practice with lower team one week.

A reasonable compromise can be reached I believe.


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## Mystery Train (Aug 18, 2016)

Honestly, the way the clubs handle kids under 15 and those over 15 ought to be totally different.  This discussion, and the other thread on Bigger, Stronger, etc., both illustrate what I think is the weakest part of the US "system" (using that term loosely) of player development.  Pulguita points out that training all the players together does nothing for the "A" team and that they look for the "best" team to play on when choosing a club.  The parents (who are driving the market) are focused on getting their kids to play in college and get those mythical scholarships.  The best way to get exposure?  Play with/or against the top ranked teams.  How to be top ranked?  Win.  So everything is always boiling down to "win."  That would be no real problem for HS age players, but when you're talking about ranking teams of 10 year-olds, I think it is easy to see why we struggle to develop real soccer talent in our country over the long haul.  What it takes to win in youth soccer at 11 is not necessarily what it takes to win at the college level, pro level, or internationally.  From my (admittedly limited) understanding of youth development in Europe and South America, it isn't about gaming circuits, rankings, or winning until you've hooked onto a pro club.  The youth clubs develop players to feed them to semi-pro and pro clubs.  So their focus is on producing amazing individual players who are a commodity.  We focus on building teams to win trophies.  I think that does translate into some positives, as our USMNT often play with a certain winning attitude that other countries lack, but when we are getting absolutely schooled by teams with superior skills, I just think about all those parents and coaches and clubs who focus on winning trophies at the U-little level and getting on the "Elite" or "Premier" or "A" team and wonder if they will ever get it.


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## MakeAPlay (Aug 18, 2016)

SoccerDad77 said:


> You like bringing this up don't you? Is your son/daughter on a "bottom" team? Of course clubs put their best resources into the best talent... Typically, those are the players that make the club successful (improve the club reputation by going on to play in college/win big tournaments/get selected for national teams/ play professionally/etc.), things clubs can market to keep the machine humming along... small minority of the time do you see a lower level player end up "making it" whatever definition you choose for that to mean...  What's the alternative? Would you prefer the best coaches and fields go to the worse players and the top kids get inferior coaching and facilities? Or better yet, the best coaches just coach 8-10 teams? Imagine the hissy fit parents here would throw if that was the case...


Not all of the top coaches are coaching on a clubs top team.  My daughter's first club had an A or B licensed coach who was amazing coaching the C teams.  He was her private trainer and did amazing things for her.  One of the reasons that we left the club was that we couldn't get him as a coach unless she played up on the C team.


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## MakeAPlay (Aug 18, 2016)

SoccerDad77 said:


> You like bringing this up don't you? Is your son/daughter on a "bottom" team? Of course clubs put their best resources into the best talent... Typically, those are the players that make the club successful (improve the club reputation by going on to play in college/win big tournaments/get selected for national teams/ play professionally/etc.), things clubs can market to keep the machine humming along... small minority of the time do you see a lower level player end up "making it" whatever definition you choose for that to mean...  What's the alternative? Would you prefer the best coaches and fields go to the worse players and the top kids get inferior coaching and facilities? Or better yet, the best coaches just coach 8-10 teams? Imagine the hissy fit parents here would throw if that was the case...


Some B team players do make it with good coaching.  Mine was one of them and she is pretty decent now and passed a lot of the early developing girls.  Personally  peaking in college is better than at 12.


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## mommato2girls (Aug 18, 2016)

I think some clubs do have more flexible training/practice schedules and allow for kids to intermingle quite a bit. Our old club for example held tryouts, picked two rosters to field the A and B teams but kids weren't told which team they were on until after spring league.The coaches worked together, practice was at the same time, side by side. All kids practiced together broken up into different groups focusing on different things, they all got to know the kids pretty well. After spring they offered the girls A or B. The practices however were kept the same, the girls floated between the teams and they borrowed players regularly either way. It was't until State Cup that you could see the real break down of the 2 teams. Both teams attended the same skills clinics, trainings etc. I liked that approach. You weren't guaranteed a spot on the A team the following year, you had to try out and the kids were all really motivated to work hard to secure their spot.


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## dfbmike (Aug 19, 2016)

Mystery Train said:


> in Europe and South America, it isn't about gaming circuits, rankings, or winning until you've hooked onto a pro club.  The youth clubs develop players to feed them to semi-pro and pro clubs.  So their focus is on producing amazing individual players who are a commodity.  We focus on building teams.


You are thinking about academy clubs, which are the minority in Europe.  The majority of clubs are actually located in cities and townships where most of the players play on the same team for many, many years together and know each other well, go to school together etc etc.  The scouting is different and that is how the good players get discovered and moved to academy or if you think you got what it takes you go try out yourself, but generally speaking players will play for their city or district club.  In addition gaming circuits, or leagues with promotion and relegation, are a huge part of european soccer...tournaments, not so much.


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## Dargle (Aug 19, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> Umm PDA means Players Development Academy.  I know that you are being tongue in cheek but...


Ummm . . . it sounds like you have only a limited familiarity with elite clubs and teams at the younger age groups in this area.  They sometimes call their teams different things, but most clubs with Development Academy teams or affiliations call their top U-11 and below teams some version of pre-development academy.  At LA Galaxy South Bay and Strikers FC, it is "Pre-Academy."  At Real Socal, it is "ATD," or "Academy Development Team."  At FC Golden State, it is "Pre-Development Academy."  See below for the description:

http://fcgoldenstate.com/us-academy.htm#top

F.C. GOLDEN STATE PRE-DEVELOPMENT ACADEMY (PDA)

In addition to the USSDA, FC Golden State fields PDA teams from U8 to U14 that compete in USYSA Leagues and CalSouth State/National Cups. The PDA provides a direct pathway to the USSDA by providing the same training mission, methodology, and periodization of the USSDA to younger players implemented with three training sessions a week under the guidance of the USSDA directors and staff. 

Perhaps you are thinking about the U-Little internal programs that some clubs run for kids before U7 or U8 (unless you're referring to the USSDA club of that name on the east coast, but that would be odd in this forum).


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## TheyBothPlay (Aug 19, 2016)

Dargle said:


> Ummm . . . it sounds like you have only a limited familiarity with elite clubs and teams at the younger age groups in this area.  They sometimes call their teams different things, but most clubs with Development Academy teams or affiliations call their top U-11 and below teams some version of pre-development academy.  At LA Galaxy South Bay and Strikers FC, it is "Pre-Academy."  At Real Socal, it is "ATD," or "Academy Development Team."  At FC Golden State, it is "Pre-Development Academy."  See below for the description:
> 
> http://fcgoldenstate.com/us-academy.htm#top
> 
> ...


Great in theory, but then how does have FC Golden State have "PDA" girls' teams when they don't have a DA girls program?


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## Dargle (Aug 19, 2016)

TheyBothPlay said:


> Great in theory, but then how does have FC Golden State have "PDA" girls' teams when they don't have a DA girls program?


If you look at FC Golden State's 2015 club profile for CSL, none of the girls teams had the PDA designation.  Those only started this year, which coincides with US Soccer's announcement of the Girls' Development Academy commencing in Fall 2017.  I don't have any inside knowledge of this club, but presumably they are claiming to (1) be preparing girls to be ready for FCGS to become a Girls Academy Club in the next few years, (2) claiming to be preparing them for Development Academy level with any DA club, or (3) they submitted an application and it was rejected (but the team names were already set).  None of those would be inconsistent with my original point that the PDA designation is incredible loose, with some teams designated as pre-academy or the like being in Flight 2, and some clubs having Academy teams that were populated by recruits rather than kids from their PDA teams.


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## pulguita (Aug 19, 2016)

TheyBothPlay said:


> Great in theory, but then how does have FC Golden State have "PDA" girls' teams when they don't have a DA girls program?


Now that there is GDA  no club is going to be permitted to use the word academy in their club any longer.  Girls sides go away with it cause there was none.  Also, any affiliated clubs will not be permitted to claim any connection to academy or use the logo on their website.  So if your club has the same name but a different 501 C than the club awarded the Academy you won't be able to use any reference.  US Soccer will be enforcing that.  Not sure if ECNL will be doing the same thing.  Might help clear things up for the consumer.


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## MakeAPlay (Aug 19, 2016)

Dargle said:


> Ummm . . . it sounds like you have only a limited familiarity with elite clubs and teams at the younger age groups in this area.  They sometimes call their teams different things, but most clubs with Development Academy teams or affiliations call their top U-11 and below teams some version of pre-development academy.  At LA Galaxy South Bay and Strikers FC, it is "Pre-Academy."  At Real Socal, it is "ATD," or "Academy Development Team."  At FC Golden State, it is "Pre-Development Academy."  See below for the description:
> 
> http://fcgoldenstate.com/us-academy.htm#top
> 
> ...


No I am not talking about any silly local clubs and their designations to trick ignorant U-little parents.  I am talking about PDA out of New Jersey one of the best clubs in America and a DA member on the girls and boys side.

To be honest I don't care a whole lot about it.  My kid is already a YNT player and in college starting and doing well.


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## Laced (Aug 19, 2016)

SoccerDad77 said:


> How would a top level player benefit from consistently training with/against weaker opposition? please explain how that makes sense... Iron sharpens iron, no? I understand how the weaker players would improve, and I understand how it would benefit the club as a whole... How on earth would that benefit an elite player?


At


SoccerDad77 said:


> How would a top level player benefit from consistently training with/against weaker opposition? please explain how that makes sense... Iron sharpens iron, no? I understand how the weaker players would improve, and I understand how it would benefit the club as a whole... How on earth would that benefit an elite player?


For pros, it doesn't help at all, as playing against much weaker opposition tends to get them sloppy.

For youth players, it's good to play opponents of different skill levels. Against weaker opposition, kids learn to take advantage of skill differential. They need learn to speed up and slow down. That aspect of youth development, I believe, US Soccer neglects. Haven't your team played an inferior team and failed to dominate?


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## sbay (Aug 20, 2016)

OK, so again refocusing back to the issue that started this.  It seems to me that Cal South could come up with some basic guidelines for naming teams.  A few ideas were thrown out there that seems simple and easy.  IMO it shouldn't be as easy just to rename yourself whatever you wish!

For example, B2004 surf cup, Celtic renamed itself Celtic USSDA and played in that USSDA category.  They do not have a USSDA, but changed their name.  The following week they played at west coast, same team played, but now they were Celtic Academy..no longer USSDA.

This is one example, but there are so many other confusing things happening with the names, which is why this thread started.


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## timbuck (Aug 20, 2016)

I think clubs feel that they can help with a kids ego by naming with colors or funky acronyms. 
But at around 10 or 11, kids see through the BS and know which is the A or B team. Even if they are both in Flight 1.


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## younothat (Aug 20, 2016)

sbay said:


> OK, so again refocusing back to the issue that started this.  It seems to me that Cal South could come up with some basic guidelines for naming teams.  A few ideas were thrown out there that seems simple and easy.  IMO it shouldn't be as easy just to rename yourself whatever you wish!
> 
> For example, B2004 surf cup, Celtic renamed itself Celtic USSDA and played in that USSDA category.  They do not have a USSDA, but changed their name.  The following week they played at west coast, same team played, but now they were Celtic Academy..no longer USSDA.
> 
> This is one example, but there are so many other confusing things happening with the names, which is why this thread started.


Tournaments want your $.  Your team could be named "GOATS" and they will take your money, they don't care.

Each team has a unique team number, DA league ones are different vs CS ones.  If the tournaments cared about who was called what or who is on the roster they could require team numbers on the application or consider that when making the brackets.

Best advice is to forget about the names or being concerned with who is playing on what team, the coaches name, comparing etc.   Doesn't really matter in the end "who you're playing only how you're playing"


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## Night Owl (Aug 20, 2016)

Soccer Clubs now in days are big money fundraisers for the top dogs running the show. Everyone wants a franchise McDonald's in their neiborhood and its hard to survive in a small mama & papa club. Add certain gourmet words to the name of the team & it will be a $$$ magnet. I just hate to always be guessing what francise team we are playing this time. They sould just create a league of their own, they have enough teams to battle each other.
For the smaller clubs, congratulations for developing great soccer players.
Your thoughts???


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## God (Aug 21, 2016)

younothat said:


> So at work do you separate/segregate  workers based on ability?  Only the best workers work together and all the other get to work with groups made of employees with lesser abilities.  Of course not!
> 
> Have you ever done age group training with a group of players at different levels?  When you have enough players at a certain level,  good training, and coaching there is plenty of "iron" to sharpen the iron.
> 
> ...


*yawns*

http://blog.3four3.com/2013/07/15/soccer-player-development-philosophy/


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## younothat (Aug 21, 2016)

God said:


> *yawns*
> 
> http://blog.3four3.com/2013/07/15/soccer-player-development-philosophy/


They have always been top-focused only, nothing new.

Targeting the best players is what they do, that's fine they are good recruiters, anybody can cherry pick but who develops these players that come to them in the first place?

The top focus system is not working in the USA,  we haven't even been able to qualify for the Olympics in 8 years on the men's side.  The quality has not improved at the top, time for a change.

The average and weaker players don't get the same resources as the top tier, not about "targeting" only one of the three groups in a club.

We can't figure out how to “Develop All Players to Their Potential”  so we are getting rid or the reserve & all the tier 3 teams is what some organizations like Galaxy and Galaxy South Bay has done to some extent.  Hey at least they admit they can't develop and don't try to "lie" to their customers.

There are 190 teams besides the "top" ones in a club like the PATS should they target & focus on their top 10 teams only?  Yes they should if they are trying to " maximize the probability of developing quality professionals"  but let's face it that's not what they are doing.  This is youth club soccer, suppose to be fun for all the kids not just the "elite" ones.

"Iceland has figured out how to meld the best of both the top-down and bottom-up approaches regarding player development"
http://thesefootballtimes.co/2015/02/05/the-icelandic-football-model/

"Everyone gets the same coach, everyone gets the same opportunity, and everyone gets the same amount of training sessions. The very best players might get to play with age group above to get better training opportunities. The girls are allowed to play with the boys to get more speed within a training session.”

The boldness of the Icelandic approach is the player-first philosophy and where football is not used as a way to eek money from parents and players"


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