# IMG Top 100 2024s (April 2021)



## SoccerLocker (Apr 12, 2021)

Top 150 2024s as of April 2021


----------



## El Cap (Apr 12, 2021)

Anyone have the actual list? Need to be premium member. Anything of particular to note?


----------



## myself (Apr 12, 2021)

Looks like they selected 40-50 new players that weren't on the previous lists and inserted them in random places. A ton of players that were on previous lists had their ranking go down by 30-50 spots. Considering there haven't been many games going on not sure how that could have happened. But then again, it's Top Drawer Soccer, don't take the rankings too seriously.


----------



## STX (Apr 12, 2021)

There have been a ton of games going on nationally, including multiple regional TIDs and a virtual YNT camp.  As the the rankings rely on US Soccer to do a lot of the heavy lifting for scouting, there being a lot of new faces seems pretty reasonable to me.  It actually would be very odd if there wasn’t.


----------



## Paul Spacey (Apr 14, 2021)

Top 100 rankings for kids? Wow, I wonder why we still have so many soccer development issues in this country.


----------



## happy9 (Apr 14, 2021)

Paul Spacey said:


> Top 100 rankings for kids? Wow, I wonder why we still have so many soccer development issues in this country.


how does it even work?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Apr 14, 2021)

Paul Spacey said:


> Top 100 rankings for kids? Wow, I wonder why we still have so many soccer development issues in this country.


HS freshman/sophomores.


----------



## crush (Apr 15, 2021)

happy9 said:


> how does it even work?


I know how it ALL works Happy.  PM me and I'll give you the scoop and the skinny


----------



## paytoplay (Apr 15, 2021)

How about a top 100 list of worst HS parents? OMG the bellyaching and anger at these games. I’m probably on the list. Is it the enclosed venues, stadiums amplifying everything? Loving it.


----------



## Technician72 (Apr 15, 2021)

paytoplay said:


> How about a top 100 list of worst HS parents? OMG the bellyaching and anger at these games. I’m probably on the list. Is it the enclosed venues, stadiums amplifying everything? Loving it.


I should really be recording the parents / fans instead of my kids at some of these games. It's entertaining and sad at the same time.


----------



## notintheface (Apr 15, 2021)

happy9 said:


> how does it even work?


$$$$$$$$$$$$$


----------



## happy9 (Apr 15, 2021)

notintheface said:


> $$$$$$$$$$$$$


That's the impression I get.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Apr 15, 2021)

notintheface said:


> $$$$$$$$$$$$$


The more you pay, the higher the ranking right?


----------



## happy9 (Apr 15, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> The more you pay, the higher the ranking right?


Follows along with pay to play I suppose.

So technically your DD could by a YNT player, ECNL/GA talent ID player, ODP, HS phenom, other un named accolades, and not be on the list??


----------



## crush (Apr 15, 2021)

happy9 said:


> Follows along with pay to play I suppose.
> 
> So technically your DD could by a YNT player, ECNL/GA talent ID player, ODP, HS phenom, other un named accolades, and not be on the list??


My dd would love a chance to at least scrimmage these top YNT Virtual Players that got called up to the U18 Virtual Camp.  I understand not everyone is good enough virtually and I get that.  It looks real good on Instagram marketing and fakebook for the clubs.  It's also nice to know a doc or daddy in high places.   Oh Happy Days.....lol!


----------



## Kicker4Life (Apr 15, 2021)

crush said:


> My dd would love a chance to at least scrimmage these top YNT Virtual Players that got called up to the U18 Virtual Camp.  I understand not everyone is good enough virtually and I get that.  It looks real good on Instagram marketing and fakebook for the clubs.  It's also nice to know a doc or daddy in high places.   Oh Happy Days.....lol!


Do many of them not play in ECNL?


----------



## oh canada (Apr 15, 2021)

happy9 said:


> how does it even work?


Heavily skews toward the biggest clubs (wrongly).  And, assumes that older girls from the same grad class are "better" too (eg, a 2004 birthyear player graduating a year later in 2023 is often ranked better than a 2005 player in same 2023 graduating year).

With Covid and defunding of US Soccer, the whole player eval system is completely F'd.  They will find good players, of course, but they are now more likely to miss good players.  And trying to rank #20 from #120 is just silly.  Coaches at the next levels know this (boys and girls) and will give these ID lists short shrift.

But they are very profitable clickbait and often the most viewed online articles by parents so don't expect them to end anytime soon.


----------



## crush (Apr 15, 2021)

oh canada said:


> Heavily skews toward the biggest clubs (wrongly).  And, assumes that older girls from the same grad class are "better" too (eg, a 2004 birthyear player graduating a year later in 2023 is often ranked better than a 2005 player in same 2023 graduating year).
> 
> With Covid and defunding of US Soccer, the whole player eval system is completely F'd.  They will find good players, of course, but they are now more likely to miss good players.  And trying to rank #20 from #120 is just silly.  Coaches at the next levels know this (boys and girls) and will give these ID lists short shrift.
> 
> But they are very profitable *clickbait* and often the most viewed online articles by parents so don't expect them to end anytime soon.


100% Canada.  I read your posts and we both agree on a lot.  I see the future U18 call up and I see hope for my dd still.  I know it's just a dream still for her, but from what I see that made it, she has a slight chance.  I know my posts dont help her and other daddy's have a way better connection then this dad, i think my dd will put it altogether on the pitch when it really matters.  Some clubs are cheaters and use clickbait to get U8s and U7s to sign up for 10 month all you can pay to play soccer.


----------



## crush (Apr 15, 2021)




----------



## sdb (Apr 15, 2021)

oh canada said:


> Heavily skews toward the biggest clubs (wrongly).  And, assumes that older girls from the same grad class are "better" too (eg, a 2004 birthyear player graduating a year later in 2023 is often ranked better than a 2005 player in same 2023 graduating year).
> 
> With Covid and defunding of US Soccer, the whole player eval system is completely F'd.  They will find good players, of course, but they are now more likely to miss good players.  And trying to rank #20 from #120 is just silly.  Coaches at the next levels know this (boys and girls) and will give these ID lists short shrift.
> 
> But they are very profitable clickbait and often the most viewed online articles by parents so don't expect them to end anytime soon.


It’s interesting that you say that coaches as the next level don’t care. I’ve heard that too. But then when I read recruiting class announcements from major colleges including big time programs they more often than not promote a recruit’s TDS ranking as if it matters.


----------



## Colorado Papa (Apr 15, 2021)

I agree with SDB.  It is easy to say the college coaches don’t care but they almost always use the TDS rankings to promote the strength of their incoming classes.  

I think making the top 100 is more important than where a player falls within the 100 as the movement within this group of players often seems arbitrary.


----------



## crush (Apr 15, 2021)

Colorado Papa said:


> I agree with SDB.  It is easy to say the college coaches don’t care but they almost always use the TDS rankings to promote the strength of their incoming classes.
> 
> I think making the top 100 is more important than where a player falls within the 100 as the movement within this group of players often seems arbitrary.


They also care if you have speed, quickness, ganas, desire to win and lay it all out on the field.  They ((College Coach)) can't come see yet and have face to face.  June 1st I believe is open season.  Iz that still not the case?  Anyone in the know?  Talk about a time to be slow and make sure of big decision for four years.   Papa from CO, I might be moving up in Highlands Ranch   Texas, AZ and NV maybe too


----------



## happy9 (Apr 16, 2021)

Colorado Papa said:


> I agree with SDB.  It is easy to say the college coaches don’t care but they almost always use the TDS rankings to promote the strength of their incoming classes.
> 
> I think making the top 100 is more important than where a player falls within the 100 as the movement within this group of players often seems arbitrary.


I struggle to understand how the TDS rankings really works but....Programs will use anything favorable to promote themselves.  I don't have a problem with that, it's their job to promote themselves.  

With that said, there are plenty of players with impressive resumes that will not make this list.  I doubt it's a barrier to recruitment.  It feels like these types of lists that are hard to quantity are geared more towards making a college program feel good about itself (and parents).


----------



## sdb (Apr 16, 2021)

I think that with any list or ranking or ID camp roster there are always going to be deserving players that have been overlooked and are not included for any number of reason. For me, I try to evaluate these based on my understanding/opinion of the players in my area that I've seen compete in DA/ECNL because that is my DD's competitive set. In this instance, I think the SoCal players included are generally amongst the top players that I've seen. It's not every top player, and the relative rankings aren't perfect. I believe that there are misses b/c I haven't watched every team in SoCal play.

Captain obvious Crush, of course coaches care about the things you mention (speed, quickness, hard work, "ganas," etc. Are you implying that players on this list may somehow be lacking in any of those? Because I've seen many of them play and they have all of those things in abundance.

One of the criticism leveled at this that I find ironic is the that it takes $$$$$ to make this list, as if you have to buy your way onto it. I think you need to have an actual TDS profile, and I'm not sure what that costs, maybe $50? The irony is that people complaining about this are likely parents that have had their daughters playing club soccer at "big clubs" since U9 or U10, maybe even earlier. So like about 7-8 years... which at $1500 to $3000+ per year totals out somewhere between $10,000 to $20,000 total easily, and not including travel or other costs.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Apr 16, 2021)

happy9 said:


> I struggle to understand how the TDS rankings really works but....Programs will use anything favorable to promote themselves.  I don't have a problem with that, it's their job to promote themselves.
> 
> With that said, there are plenty of players with impressive resumes that will not make this list.  I doubt it's a barrier to recruitment.  It feels like these types of lists that are hard to quantity are geared more towards making a college program feel good about itself (and parents).


2 of my older DD’s team mates (both 2022’s) , neither ever made a list, both work their butts off, emailed coaches systematically leading into the recruiting window.  Both had multiple offers from D1 schools and have committed to top D1 schools (academic and athletic programs).

Lists are just that, lists....names on paper.  It’s the character, drive and heart of the player that coaches are looking at.


----------



## crush (Apr 16, 2021)

sdb said:


> I think that with any list or ranking or ID camp roster there are always going to be deserving players that have been overlooked and are not included for any number of reason. For me, I try to evaluate these based on my understanding/opinion of the players in my area that I've seen compete in DA/ECNL because that is my DD's competitive set. In this instance, I think the SoCal players included are generally amongst the top players that I've seen. It's not every top player, and the relative rankings aren't perfect. I believe that there are misses b/c I haven't watched every team in SoCal play.
> 
> Captain obvious Crush, of course coaches care about the things you mention (speed, quickness, hard work, "ganas," etc. Are you implying that players on this list may somehow be lacking in any of those? Because I've seen many of them play and they have all of those things in abundance.
> 
> One of the criticism leveled at this that I find ironic is the that it takes $$$$$ to make this list, as if you have to buy your way onto it. I think you need to have an actual TDS profile, and I'm not sure what that costs, maybe $50? The irony is that people complaining about this are likely parents that have had their daughters playing club soccer at "big clubs" since U9 or U10, maybe even earlier. So like about 7-8 years... which at $1500 to $3000+ per year totals out somewhere between $10,000 to $20,000 total easily, and not including travel or other costs.


I'm not a fan to pay to be on any list.  No big deal and it's just MOO.  I have not seen a list of any players btw, just clickbait on one and I wont ever mention a name.   I will say speed will be the reason this one will never see a cap, but I'm happy for all the girls who got a virtual camp "call up" and I'm sure the rest will have what it takes to make a cap.  I know some parents ((not all)) that got free rides for all those years SDB and never paid a dime.  This is clickbait stuff and were all having some fun poking at it today   My dd is not even playing club, only HSS for now so if a virtual scout wanted to see if she were cap materiel, well they would have to come to HSS game and no one is allowed to watch.


----------



## Paul Spacey (Apr 16, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> 2 of my older DD’s team mates (both 2022’s) , neither ever made a list, both work their butts off, emailed coaches systematically leading into the recruiting window.  Both had multiple offers from D1 schools and have committed to top D1 schools (academic and athletic programs).
> 
> Lists are just that, lists....names on paper.  It’s the character, drive and heart of the player that coaches are looking at.


spot on right here. 

Work on your game (and academics), don't worry about lists or rankings, do the work to contact coaches and put together a strong highlight reel. If possible, get in front of the coaches at colleges you wish to attend (not always easy but sometimes ID camps are opportunities). If you are a strong player and do the work necessary to systematically contact coaches (and then stay in touch with updates), chances are you'll get some solid offers.

_It’s the character, drive and heart of the player that coaches are looking at._ This.


----------



## crush (Apr 16, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> 2 of my older DD’s team mates (both 2022’s) , *neither ever made a list*, both work their butts off, emailed coaches systematically leading into the recruiting window.  Both had multiple offers from D1 schools and have committed to top D1 schools (academic and athletic programs).
> 
> Lists are just that, lists....names on paper.  It’s the character, drive and heart of the player that coaches are looking at.


Amen to that   Did they pay the yearly subscription every year? So no list matters at all and I do agree, just work butts off, email and more emails and then offers.  So why do we have the lists in the first place?  It's a fair question that is asked by many on here.  Of course Captain Crush and Captain Obvious do not see eye to eye on this and around and around we go.


----------



## happy9 (Apr 16, 2021)

Paul Spacey said:


> spot on right here.
> 
> Work on your game (and academics), don't worry about lists or rankings, do the work to contact coaches and put together a strong highlight reel. If possible, *get in front of the coaches at colleges you wish to attend (not always easy but sometimes ID camps are opportunities).* If you are a strong player and do the work necessary to systematically contact coaches (and then stay in touch with updates), chances are you'll get some solid offers.
> 
> _It’s the character, drive and heart of the player that coaches are looking at._ This.


Getting to an ID camp maybe the most important thing you can do.  Film garners interest but coaches know film can be manipulated.  

I just had the conversation with a friend and former D1 coach (women's sport, no soccer).  Her recommendation has always been to attend camps of the schools you are most interested in.  She did that with her own kid summer before last.  Road show to targeted schools.  Paid off and her DD is now firmly placed at a P5 school, gearing up for the upcoming season.  Helps that she is connected but she insists camps are where the real identification occurs.  If you are a top program, you will have some automatic GOATS that don't need to show up or that you trust the hype.  They still have to fill rosters and camps are effective.


----------



## crush (Apr 16, 2021)

happy9 said:


> Getting to an ID camp maybe the most important thing you can do.  Film garners interest but coaches know film can be manipulated.
> 
> I just had the conversation with a friend and former D1 coach (women's sport, no soccer).  Her recommendation has always been to attend camps of the schools you are most interested in.  She did that with her own kid summer before last.  Road show to targeted schools.  Paid off and her DD is now firmly placed at a P5 school, gearing up for the upcoming season.  Helps that she is connected but she insists camps are where the real identification occurs.  If you are a top program, you will have some automatic GOATS that don't need to show up or that you trust the hype.  They still have to fill rosters and camps are effective.


Happy, all the automatic GOATS are committed.  When can a student/athlete go to ID Camp?  How much???  My dd has one in the popper for a meet up when campus and coach can do face to face legally.  I hear about those trick videos tricks too....lol!!!


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Apr 16, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> 2 of my older DD’s team mates (both 2022’s) , neither ever made a list, both work their butts off, emailed coaches systematically leading into the recruiting window.  Both had multiple offers from D1 schools and have committed to top D1 schools (academic and athletic programs).
> 
> Lists are just that, lists....names on paper.  It’s the character, drive and heart of the player that coaches are looking at.


There are 333 D1 women’s college soccer teams out there. Each of them are going to pick up an average of 5-6 players per grad year. That’s (conservatively) 1500 D1 spots each year. TopDrawer ranks 150 players. You can see by this example that you don’t need to make a top 150 list to have a chance to play for a D1 school.


----------



## Technician72 (Apr 16, 2021)

Soccerfan2 said:


> There are 333 D1 women’s college soccer teams out there. Each of them are going to pick up an average of 5-6 players per grad year. That’s (conservatively) 1500 D1 spots each year. TopDrawer ranks 150 players. You can see by this example that you don’t need to make a top 150 list to have a chance to play for a D1 school.


Perfectly summed up right here!


----------



## RedDevilDad (Apr 16, 2021)

paytoplay said:


> How about a top 100 list of worst HS parents? OMG the bellyaching and anger at these games. I’m probably on the list. Is it the enclosed venues, stadiums amplifying everything? Loving it.


I was at a game last week and the parent yelled, “Give him a yellow ticket!!” 
I didn’t know how to respond.


----------



## SoccerLocker (Apr 16, 2021)

Australians have it best...  "Give that guy a slice of cheese!!!"

Aussie Soccer Commentators


----------



## STX (Apr 16, 2021)

crush said:


> I'm not a fan to pay to be on any list.  No big deal and it's just MOO.  I have not seen a list of any players btw, just clickbait on one and I wont ever mention a name.   I will say speed will be the reason this one will never see a cap, but I'm happy for all the girls who got a virtual camp "call up" and I'm sure the rest will have what it takes to make a cap.  I know some parents ((not all)) that got free rides for all those years SDB and never paid a dime.  This is clickbait stuff and were all having some fun poking at it today   My dd is not even playing club, only HSS for now so if a virtual scout wanted to see if she were cap materiel, well they would have to come to HSS game and no one is allowed to watch.


It has been explained to you in several threads several times, so not sure what your agenda is other than bitterness that your girl isn’t making the “lists” you feel she’s entitled to...but no, you don’t need to pay a dime to be on a TDS top 150.  I am pretty sure one might need to create a player profile, though. That’s completely free.

To my eye, every girl I know on those rankings is excellent. Like, really really good.

Are there excellent players not on those rankings? For sure.  Are there some not on the ranking that I perceive as better than some that are? Also for sure.

If you’re taking the rankings either as gospel, rigorously fact-based, or as something that is important to anyone other than the girls who got recognized this time around, you’re probably doing it wrong.  If you’re bashing it for something it isn’t, you’re definitely doing it wrong.


----------



## myself (Apr 16, 2021)

I know multiple families who didn't know the kid was on the list until I told them and had never created a profile on the site. TDS created the profile for the kid and the families had to try and claim the account after the fact.


----------



## crush (Apr 16, 2021)

STX said:


> It has been explained to you in several threads several times, so not sure what *your agenda is other than bitterness that your girl isn’t making the “lists” you feel she’s entitled to*...but no, you don’t need to pay a dime to be on a TDS top 150.  I am pretty sure one might need to create a player profile, though. That’s completely free.
> 
> To my eye, every girl I know on those rankings is excellent. Like, really really good.
> 
> ...


Whatever and thanks for your take STX.  I see through a different lens and my eyes see GREEN pal!!!!!


----------



## dad4 (Apr 16, 2021)

RedDevilDad said:


> I was at a game last week and the parent yelled, “Give him a yellow ticket!!”
> I didn’t know how to respond.


He was double parked and she couldn't move her Tesla.  Completely justifiable outrage, IMO.


----------



## oh canada (Apr 16, 2021)

sdb said:


> It’s interesting that you say that coaches as the next level don’t care. I’ve heard that too. But then when I read recruiting class announcements from major colleges including big time programs they more often than not promote a recruit’s TDS ranking as if it matters.


True, but they're just playing the PR game too (that's different from their own player id and scouting).  Countless players not on the Top 150, then get signed by XYZ D1 strong college soccer program, suddenly appear on the Top 150.   Plan on seeing that a lot more now.  Coaches want to see players with their own eyes, not anyone else's (including US Soccer's).


----------



## crush (Apr 17, 2021)

oh canada said:


> True, but they're just playing the PR game too (that's different from their own player id and scouting).  Countless players not on the Top 150, then get signed by XYZ D1 strong college soccer program, suddenly appear on the Top 150.   Plan on seeing that a lot more now.  *Coaches want to see players with their own eyes, not anyone else's (including US Soccer's).*


That has been my point all along.  The problem with "Liar the Doc" three years ago was that only he could talk with coach on dd behalf and only Doc Liar the middleman can help.  That is BS and should never been the norm.  STX thinks I'm all bitter that my kid didn;t make some list.  What a joke and super not paying attention to what Crush, New Wave Dave, SoccerHelper and EJ have been writing about!!!  When you have a Doc banging anything he see's and has that kind of power & control on a little one's future, that's when Hawk Dad had to step in.  Dont you think for a minute this is about sour grapes for some list.  Please, oh please!!!  You have to pay to not only play youth soccer, you have to pay to be on the lists.  Simple is simple fellas.  It's called pay to play and pay to be listed and that is fact.  My dd wants 3 official visits and meet face to face with coach and dog gone it, she will get that opportunity after June 1st finally.


----------



## MacDre (Apr 17, 2021)

crush said:


> That has been my point all along.  The problem with "Liar the Doc" three years ago was that only he could talk with coach on dd behalf and only Doc Liar the middleman can help.  That is BS and should never been the norm.  STX thinks I'm all bitter that my kid didn;t make some list.  What a joke and super not paying attention to what Crush, New Wave Dave, SoccerHelper and EJ have been writing about!!!  When you have a Doc banging anything he see's and has that kind of power & control on a little one's future, that's when Hawk Dad had to step in.  Dont you think for a minute this is about sour grapes for some list.  Please, oh please!!!  You have to pay to not only play youth soccer, you have to pay to be on the lists.  Simple is simple fellas.  It's called pay to play and pay to be listed and that is fact.  My dd wants 3 official visits and meet face to face with coach and dog gone it, she will get that opportunity after June 1st finally.


I feel you Crush.  I ain’t paid fo’ shit.  But, maybe that’s why my kid is not ranked, has not been contacted by USSF for a virtual camp and is getting the runaround from the sports agent that represent professional 13 year old female soccer players.

Oh well.  2 tears in a bucket...

But before I go back into the “bubble” my kid has a dedication for USSF and ranking list makers:


----------



## crush (Apr 17, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I feel you Crush.  I ain’t paid fo’ shit.  But, maybe that’s why my kid is not ranked, has not been contacted by USSF for a virtual camp and is getting the *runaround* from the sports agent that represent professional 13 year old female soccer players.
> 
> Oh well.  2 tears in a bucket...
> 
> But before I go back into the “bubble” my kid has a dedication for USSF and ranking list makers:


----------



## crush (Apr 17, 2021)

MacDre said:


> I feel you Crush.  I ain’t paid fo’ shit.  But, maybe that’s why my kid is not ranked, has not been contacted by USSF for a* virtual camp* and is getting the runaround from the sports agent that represent professional 13 year old female soccer players.
> 
> Oh well.  2 tears in a bucket...
> 
> But before I go back into the “bubble” my kid has a dedication for USSF and ranking list makers:


Does anyone know when the first virtual match will be played?  XBox?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Apr 17, 2021)

crush said:


> I'm not a fan to pay to be on any list.  No big deal and it's just MOO.  I have not seen a list of any players btw, just clickbait on one and I wont ever mention a name.   I will say speed will be the reason this one will never see a cap, but I'm happy for all the girls who got a virtual camp "call up" and I'm sure the rest will have what it takes to make a cap.  I know some parents ((not all)) that got free rides for all those years SDB and never paid a dime.  This is clickbait stuff and were all having some fun poking at it today   My dd is not even playing club, only HSS for now so if a virtual scout wanted to see if she were cap materiel, well they would have to come to HSS game and no one is allowed to watch.


You do know that your DD has a TDS profile right?  So you’re either a hypocrite and paid or wrong about having to pay.  Which one is it?


----------



## crush (Apr 17, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> You do know that your DD has a TDS profile right?  So you’re either a hypocrite and paid or wrong about having to pay.  Which one is it?


I never set up a profile for her bro.  Your investigation is wrong again.  I did pay $59 one time to be a member back in the day so I can see the rankings for the teams and try and figure it all out.  I even shared that as Soccerhelper to help others about pay to be listed and to take it with a grain of salt.  Who could have set up her profile Kicker?  You know all things about me and my dd and share it all with the fellas on here anyways so go ahead and share who would do such a thing.  BTW, is she ranked?  I really would be stoked if she could crack the top 150.  I'll try and get someone to write all those lovely articles written by the soccer reporters who seem to be able to watch all these glowing future stars of America and write beautiful highlights from the game.  I saved some for this purpose.  Over the top is understatement.....
I never set up a profile for her either stalker.  You have envy issues bro and you give me the creeps now.  Deep down something happen to you and for some reason you dont like what I have to say what happen to my kid with a Doc who lied so much it pains me still.  First you share my private messages ((PMS)) with everyone on the forum.  Then you tell everyone how better your life is over my life.  Then you share private conversations ((PC) that only you and I had at Silverlake's years ago and you tell everyone on here about them.  Is this how you operate?  I only came hear to snitch on one Doc who is no longer in the game.  Do you think it was good for a Doc to be banging away and running the TC all at once?  Let's stay on focus bro?  You missed the main point because of your competitive ego pride is my guess.  BTW, when you see m at Silverlakes, come over and give me a hug.  I swear I'm just pointing out the truth and it hurts for some


----------

