# Why I feel DA is the superior league



## Fred Fred (Aug 20, 2019)

ECNL, you had a great run but it is hard for you to argue that you are the "elite" league. I will go through some common comments and topics you will get from ECNL folks. I want to state that ECNL is a good league and can get your daughter some competition and probably a scholarship, but they can not compete with DA. DA is the elite league in SoCal. 
1. The competition 
If you look at ECNL standings, look closely...at Goal Differential, usually after the 3rd or 4th team the GD goes to double digit negative. blues and slammers beat up on everyone else.
DA, usually is about the 9th or 10th team to get double digit negative
It is clear as day that DA is much more competitive. Also, don't give me the response that Crossfire and PDA are in ecnl because as a socal team you will see them maybe, if you are get a good draw, one game a year but will see the local teams much more.

2. "ECNL has more girls scholarships and continues to get more of the college coaches at their events"
DUH. ECNL has been around longer but every year DA gets more and more coaches to come to their events because they are just managed better (more on that later). It will take time until DA reaches the amount of scholarships that ecnl has done. Because they are a new! But for those who think new things can't out last who got there first....ask blockbuster, Toys R us and Radio shack how they feel about Netflix and Amazon. 

3. "ECNL allows my kid to play HS soccer" 
You should not want to play HS soccer if you are a club player, the competition just isn't as goos, teammates are usualyl not as good and so much risk for injury when you play against players that may only be playing because they want to play a sport. HS soccer is very sloppy and the field conditions usually aren't great. DA has their teams play DA teams that are properly coached and know how to play on proper fields.

4. Safety
DA has rules setup for one game a day, 18 hour rule, can't play 3 games in 3 days. The fact that so many parents aren't in love with a league that wants to protect your kid is mind boggling. They have trainers on site and always has water available. ECNL on the other hand will have your 14-18 year old daughter continue to play in tournaments where they will play 5 games in two days! If their team makes it to the final they will can play 3 games on one Sunday on a full 11v11 field. That increases the chance of injury and puts so much stress on the body, that is not safe.   

This argument will change if more clubs switch or go "all in". However, I am hearing rumblings that blues may go "all in" for DA....if they do, I don't think there is any argument that DA is the elite league.

I wish you all the best of luck and hope your DD makes it as far as she can but if you are looking for the best competition and a league that truly wants to develop players and keep them safe, DA is the way to go.


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## Dummy (Aug 20, 2019)

Fred Fred said:


> ECNL, you had a great run but it is hard for you to argue that you are the "elite" league. I will go through some common comments and topics you will get from ECNL folks. I want to state that ECNL is a good league and can get your daughter some competition and probably a scholarship, but they can not compete with DA. DA is the elite league in SoCal.
> 1. The competition
> If you look at ECNL standings, look closely...at Goal Differential, usually after the 3rd or 4th team the GD goes to double digit negative. blues and slammers beat up on everyone else.
> DA, usually is about the 9th or 10th team to get double digit negative
> ...


Whatever.


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## jpeter (Aug 20, 2019)

Dummy said:


> Whatever.


I guess 48 pages not quite enough yet
http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/ecnl-vs-da-turf-war-has-created-a-toxic-environment.17230/


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 20, 2019)

Although I appreciate the fact you are trying to liven things up around here, you are just rehashing the old argument.  In reality you do present the opportunity to restate the FACT that each league has its pluses and minuses and there is no singular answer as to which is best for everyone.


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 20, 2019)

jpeter said:


> I guess 48 pages not quite enough yet
> http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/ecnl-vs-da-turf-war-has-created-a-toxic-environment.17230/


To be fair about 8 pages are WAAAAYYYY off topic.


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 20, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> To be fair about 8 pages are WAAAAYYYY off topic.


Are you sure?


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## Keeper pops (Aug 20, 2019)

Fred Fred said:


> ECNL, you had a great run but it is hard for you to argue that you are the "elite" league. I will go through some common comments and topics you will get from ECNL folks. I want to state that ECNL is a good league and can get your daughter some competition and probably a scholarship, but they can not compete with DA. DA is the elite league in SoCal.
> 1. The competition
> If you look at ECNL standings, look closely...at Goal Differential, usually after the 3rd or 4th team the GD goes to double digit negative. blues and slammers beat up on everyone else.
> DA, usually is about the 9th or 10th team to get double digit negative
> ...



Just like a “shiny new toy” mines better than yours and congrats to your DD

1. If there isn’t a DA program, safe to say you’ll be associated with an ECNL program

2. If they allowed DA players to play HS, safe to say HS soccer would be more competitive? My DD played HS soccer last year and had a great time reconnecting with her school friends and families. Playing time (limited)  was discussed with her HS coach in order to stay healthy. 

No regret playing ECNL this coming season. As an 03 player, it’s not about wins/loss or goal differentials. It’s about a platform for her to get exposed and hopeful to continue soccer in college. We do miss having a trainer during practice sessions ..

Good luck to all our DDs  this season and stay injury free....


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## Justafan (Aug 20, 2019)

Fred Fred said:


> ECNL, you had a great run but it is hard for you to argue that you are the "elite" league. I will go through some common comments and topics you will get from ECNL folks. I want to state that ECNL is a good league and can get your daughter some competition and probably a scholarship, but they can not compete with DA. DA is the elite league in SoCal.
> 1. The competition
> If you look at ECNL standings, look closely...at Goal Differential, usually after the 3rd or 4th team the GD goes to double digit negative. blues and slammers beat up on everyone else.
> DA, usually is about the 9th or 10th team to get double digit negative
> ...


Stop beating around the bush Fred and get to the point.


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## Messi>CR7 (Aug 20, 2019)

Unoriginal = TLDNR


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## pewpew (Aug 21, 2019)

Join date..Aug. 1st
1st post.
Hmmmmmm....
Too bad there isn't a "Troll" rating as an option to go along with Like, Agree, Winner, etc


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## ToonArmy (Aug 21, 2019)

Has anybody seen Fred Fred Justjust ellejustus and Luis Andres in the same room?


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 21, 2019)

ToonArmy said:


> Has anybody seen Fred Fred Justjust ellejustus and Luis Andres in the same room?


Nono.


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## Desert Hound (Aug 21, 2019)

I have done a careful analysis of both leagues. DA is clearly better vs ECNL. 

Why? 

DA has 2 letters in its abbreviation and ECNL has 4. 

Checkmate.


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## oh canada (Aug 21, 2019)

Netflix or Amazon Prime TV?

Xbox or Playstation?

Samsung or Apple?

vomiting or crapping your shorts?


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## timbuck (Aug 21, 2019)

Don't forget about Mighty Mouse vs Superman


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## soccerislife (Aug 21, 2019)

i think it's kind of sad that, again, the girls are following the boys.  the only reason people think DA is better is because of the boys DA.  girls already have a high level league that works.  why move?  oh ya, because the boys said so.


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## Messi>CR7 (Aug 21, 2019)

@Fred,
You cannot throw your point #1 thru 4 at everyone's face in your first post and expect a good outcome.  Instead of making fun of you like many unhelpful members, I'm going to give you the Barney Stinson step-by-step Playbook on how seasoned posters on this forum achieve what you tried to do.

1. It's best to present this as a discussion from a troubled parent than a single-minded advocate.  Many experienced members on this forum genuinely like to help others.
2. You need to have a buddy or a second profile.  Let's call your buddy or 2nd profile Barney.
3. The dialogue should go something like this:
Fred: "First post, but long time lurker from the old forum.  My kid almost passed out from heat exhaustion in her second game on Sunday in a tournament that included mostly ECNL teams.  Two games in a day is just too much on the big field in a summer tourney".
Barney: "Welcome to the forum.  One of the reasons my kid moved from ECNL to DA this past year was the concern for safety.  You can't play more than one game per day in DA".  (Barney gives Fred a "Like" rating while subtly introducing your argument #4".)
Fred: "What makes it worse is that both games were not competitive at all".  (Fred gives Barney an "Agree" rating while subtly introducing your argument #1).
Barney:  "That's unfortunate.  We definitely have seen better competition since moving from ECNL to DA".  (Barney gives Fred another "Like" rating)
4.  Repeat step 3 to introduce your argument #2 and #3.
5.  When discussing point #3 regarding HS, make sure you (a middle-aged man) don't come across as an expert on what 15-year-old girls want.
6.  At the end of every post, include a phony line of ".......but I wish the best of luck to the girls that do choose ECNL".

Good luck, and be ..................(wait for it).................LEGENDARY.


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## jpeter (Aug 21, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Nono.


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## End of the Line (Aug 21, 2019)

Fred Fred said:


> ECNL, you had a great run but it is hard for you to argue that you are the "elite" league. I will go through some common comments and topics you will get from ECNL folks. I want to state that ECNL is a good league and can get your daughter some competition and probably a scholarship, but they can not compete with DA. DA is the elite league in SoCal.
> 1. The competition
> If you look at ECNL standings, look closely...at Goal Differential, usually after the 3rd or 4th team the GD goes to double digit negative. blues and slammers beat up on everyone else.
> DA, usually is about the 9th or 10th team to get double digit negative
> ...


The GDA Mafia apparently has a new spokesperson.  That said, maybe it's a good time to revisit why playing the GDA's no reentry rule is dangerous.  What do ya'll think?  Should I start re-posting the medical studies that Freddie apparently missed the last time?


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 21, 2019)

End of the Line said:


> The GDA Mafia apparently has a new spokesperson.  That said, maybe it's a good time to revisit why playing the GDA's no reentry rule is dangerous.  What do ya'll think?  Should I start re-posting the medical studies that Freddie apparently missed the last time?


Yes please do...since the articles you e posted in the past contradict your statements If you read thru them thoroughly.  OH and please make sure you highlight the proof that NO ONE in any other league plays 90 min as well as you viewpoint that HS practicing 5 days a week and playing 3 to 6 games per week is also “healthier” than the GDA format.


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## Justafan (Aug 21, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Don't forget about Mighty Mouse vs Superman


And my dad vs. your dad.


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## soccer dude (Aug 21, 2019)

DA Safety: funny.  I just spoke to our 04 Legends academy parent and saw at least 4 injured players due to overuse, some of which were national team players.   4 practices a week is tough and not recommended by a lot of good trainers.  One thing about ECNL is that it's usually 2 practices a week with a probably 3rd futsal, ACL prevention, etc.  I'd like to see the injury rate per team of ECNL vs DA for Girls and then you can talk about that subject.


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## Soccer43 (Aug 21, 2019)

soccer dude said:


> DA Safety: funny.  I just spoke to our 04 Legends academy parent and saw at least 4 injured players due to overuse, some of which were national team players.   4 practices a week is tough and not recommended by a lot of good trainers.  One thing about ECNL is that it's usually 2 practices a week with a probably 3rd futsal, ACL prevention, etc.  I'd like to see the injury rate per team of ECNL vs DA for Girls and then you can talk about that subject.


That would be interesting stats but we will never see those


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 21, 2019)

soccer dude said:


> DA Safety: funny.  I just spoke to our 04 Legends academy parent and saw at least 4 injured players due to overuse, some of which were national team players.   4 practices a week is tough and not recommended by a lot of good trainers.  One thing about ECNL is that it's usually 2 practices a week with a probably 3rd futsal, ACL prevention, etc.  I'd like to see the injury rate per team of ECNL vs DA for Girls and then you can talk about that subject.


To that point it isn’t a DA or ECNL thing as much as a club organization thing.  Many clubs do periodization, weekly recovery sessions, futsal, video, technical work, etc throughout the weeks.  

Some don’t.....It’s all grind all the time.

Most of the players that are at the top level are training 4-5 times a week in some way shape or form no matter what league they play in.


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## pewpew (Aug 21, 2019)

Desert Hound said:


> I have done a careful analysis of both leagues. DA is clearly better vs ECNL.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...


Not true. ECNL was here first and proved it's worth. DA went with 2 letters to dumb it down for those parents  jumping ship from ECNL thinking just like @Keeper pops said..the latest shiny new toy.


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## pewpew (Aug 21, 2019)

But a few things to point out through observation.  (My G03 GK plays in neither league so I really don't have any skin in the game.)

1) While she was at an ID Camp over the summer for a local university..there was a DA GK from one of the local clubs. She had to be on their radar already because my kid said the GK coach talked to her like they were old chums. Even when she let a ball slip right thru her gloves and slam off her face he said "Good job!! See how ____ stopped the ball with her face"  My daughter was a bit miffed at that one to say the least. Not the first time she's seen this happen at a camp with DA GKs and the coaches thinks it's the greatest thing. Why stopping the ball with your face instead of your hands is better I will never know.

2) She has played with and against ECNL teams and trained along side DA GKs at keeper training and at various camps. Individually she's seen some GKs play above others..but nothing to say one is better than the other. Same goes for field players. 

3) Her GK trainer/club has 3 GDA GKs my kid consistently trains with from a DA club nearby. Why aren't they training with their DA GK trainer if the DA is so great?

Just my .02


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## Fact (Aug 21, 2019)

pewpew said:


> Not true. ECNL was here first and proved it's worth. DA went with 2 letters to dumb it down for those parents  jumping ship from ECNL thinking just like @Keeper pops said..the latest shiny new toy.


Gosh when ECNL started, I had trouble remembering whether the C or the N came first.  It sounds good both ways.  To bad they didn't dumb it down to two letters too, would have made my life easier


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## RedCard (Aug 26, 2019)

oh canada said:


> Netflix or Amazon Prime TV?
> 
> Xbox or Playstation?
> 
> ...


Pretty dangerous bringing up Xbox vs PlayStation. I think that one has been going a lot longer than DA vs ECNL.


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## Desert Hound (Aug 26, 2019)

soccer dude said:


> One thing about ECNL is that it's usually 2 practices a week with a probably 3rd futsal


When my DD was ECNL it was 3 days of practice each week. Currently both of the ecnl clubs here run 3 a week. And then slip in other stuff here and there.


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## Justus (Aug 31, 2019)

Given that the DA is the far superior league and most parents are paying to have their kids participate, how much is it costing each family to play in the DA?  Dues, private training, teams fees, per diems, travel for kid and one parent, hotels, eating out every meal, rental car, sight seeing tours, gas and other expenses.  Anyone add all this up from last year?  I'm asking because a friend of mine is looking at DA for 2006 with no Full Ride.  He has some money but is looking for a true number.  Thanks


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## Justus (Aug 31, 2019)

Justus said:


> Given that the DA is the far superior league and most parents are paying to have their kids participate, how much is it costing each family to play in the DA?  Dues, private training, teams fees, per diems, travel for kid and one parent, hotels, eating out every meal, rental car, sight seeing tours, gas and other expenses.  Anyone add all this up from last year?  I'm asking because a friend of mine is looking at DA for 2006 with no Full Ride.  He has some money but is looking for a true number.  Thanks


An old friend is lurking on here and texted me that they spent over $14,000 last year.  They have money and have no problem with it.  Flying first class to showcases and Nocal and AZ league games.  I think that's on the high end and depending on where your DA club is located will probably determined how much one is willing to pay to travel all over the country watching soccer games.  My guess is around $8,000 a year for avg. family not getting the full scholarship.  Times that by 6 seasons and its got to be over $50,000 to participate in the DA.


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 31, 2019)

Justus said:


> An old friend is lurking on here and texted me that they spent over $14,000 last year.  They have money and have no problem with it.  Flying first class to showcases and Nocal and AZ league games.  I think that's on the high end and depending on where your DA club is located will probably determined how much one is willing to pay to travel all over the country watching soccer games.  My guess is around $8,000 a year for avg. family not getting the full scholarship.  Times that by 6 seasons and its got to be over $50,000 to participate in the DA.


Most likely + or - 10% the cost of ECNL based on the aforementioned variables.


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## Justus (Aug 31, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> Most likely + or - 10% the cost of ECNL based on the aforementioned variables.


Lot's of variables for sure


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## nosubs (Aug 31, 2019)

Justus said:


> Given that the DA is the far superior league and most parents are paying to have their kids participate, how much is it costing each family to play in the DA?  Dues, private training, teams fees, per diems, travel for kid and one parent, hotels, eating out every meal, rental car, sight seeing tours, gas and other expenses.  Anyone add all this up from last year?  I'm asking because a friend of mine is looking at DA for 2006 with no Full Ride.  He has some money but is looking for a true number.  Thanks


I don't know for boys, not really sure how many showcases they do. With club fees and uniforms, out of state league games, travel to showcases and now DA cup games, realistically about 7- 8k for just her. Parents don't need to go unless chaperoning, but add another 200 dollars per night for hotel(average cost per night your taste may very). 
Club - $3000
Travel $3000 (player only)
Hotel - $600 ($50 per night. 4 players per room x 12 nights)
Food-$ 480 ( $40 per day x 12 days)
Van Rental - $150 ($100 per day, 2 vans =$200 x 12 days = $2400/#of players(16))
Total = $7120.00 (I didn't include shopping and sight seeing/college campus visits)
This coming year is going to be more because of one more out of state game and DA Cup games.


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## nosubs (Aug 31, 2019)

$7130* Math


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## Soccerfan2 (Aug 31, 2019)

What girl gets DA full scholar-shipped? I know there’s some US Soccer money set aside for DA scholarships for those that are really disadvantaged (income around $30k I think?) and some clubs discount club fees for families under the income level threshold the club sets, but that’s all I’ve ever heard of?


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## Justus (Aug 31, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> Most likely + or - 10% the cost of ECNL based on the aforementioned variables.


Texted a buddy who played ECNL last year 04'.  Did not travel east coast or CO.  Just AZ Showcases and Vegas.  Cost was under $5K for everything.  This year might be a little more he said because of East Coast trip.  I think ECNL is less expensive for the middle class family.  I also think ECNL is superior to the DA because it's preparing the girls to play the college game with the same college rules and no 25% guarantee start times for all on the roster.  No development either (you better do that on your own or you will be on the bench).  Just hard nose competition at it's finest.  Also, over a 6 season youth soccer career, the middle class family will pay under $30K in ECNL compared to $50,000+ (depending on travel habits and cash flow).


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## Justus (Aug 31, 2019)

nosubs said:


> I don't know for boys, not really sure how many showcases they do. With club fees and uniforms, out of state league games, travel to showcases and now DA cup games, realistically about 7- 8k for just her. Parents don't need to go unless chaperoning, but add another 200 dollars per night for hotel(average cost per night your taste may very).
> Club - $3000
> Travel $3000 (player only)
> Hotel - $600 ($50 per night. 4 players per room x 12 nights)
> ...


For a middle class family getting no Full Ride, it's close to $9K+ to participate in the DA and benefit from the DA process.  Since its a foolish dream to be on the YNT for the 99.5% of us, ECNL is the logical choice.  ECNL will get you the same college scholarship/Admittance at a far less cost plus you don't have to train 4 days a week 10 months out of the year and you get to choose to play HS Soccer or take a little break.


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## Justus (Aug 31, 2019)

Soccerfan2 said:


> What girl gets DA full scholar-shipped? I know there’s some US Soccer money set aside for DA scholarships for those that are really disadvantaged (income around $30k I think?) and some clubs discount club fees for families under the income level threshold the club sets, but that’s all I’ve ever heard of?


Is your dd playing DA?


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 31, 2019)

Justus said:


> .....and benefit from the DA process.


What do you mean by this?  The process is the process no matter what the league.


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## nosubs (Aug 31, 2019)

Justus said:


> For a middle class family getting no Full Ride, it's close to $9K+ to participate in the DA and benefit from the DA process.  Since its a foolish dream to be on the YNT for the 99.5% of us, ECNL is the logical choice.  ECNL will get you the same college scholarship/Admittance at a far less cost plus you don't have to train 4 days a week 10 months out of the year and you get to choose to play HS Soccer or take a little break.


ECNL is a logical choice for some. I told you what our experience with DA with regards to cost is, take that for what its worth, or don't.


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## Justus (Aug 31, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> What do you mean by this?  The process is the process no matter what the league.


Bad word with process.  Travel seems to be more in the DA and people want to enjoy the "experience."  My writing sucks so be easy on me.  I just asked my wife the difference between "sense" and "since" and when to use them probably.


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## Justus (Aug 31, 2019)

nosubs said:


> ECNL is a logical choice for some. I told you what our experience with DA with regards to cost is, take that for what its worth, or don't.


Thank you so much for the info.  My buddy is really trying to figure out his next move next year.  Tough decisions.  No one likes surprises especially when money is involved.


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## Emma (Aug 31, 2019)

Justus said:


> Thank you so much for the info.  My buddy is really trying to figure out his next move next year.  Tough decisions.  No one likes surprises especially when money is involved.


Justus - your buddy should pick the teams he's interested in and talk to some of the parents on it to see what their cost are as well as the team an age group above them.  That's going to give him a more accurate number than random numbers from the forum.  Don't forget to calculate that ECNL starts a year earlier than DA.  We know people in ECNL and the 5K seems like an extremely low number.   Kudos for whichever club  is being able to keep it that low and I hope they become the model for DA, ECNL, NPL, and every other league that is in existence and will be created in the future.


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## Justus (Aug 31, 2019)

Emma said:


> Justus - your buddy should pick the teams he's interested in and talk to some of the parents on it to see what their cost are as well as the team an age group above them.  That's going to give him a more accurate number than random numbers from the forum.  Don't forget to calculate that ECNL starts a year earlier than DA.  We know people in ECNL and the 5K seems like an extremely low number.   Kudos for whichever club  is being able to keep it that low and I hope they become the model for DA, ECNL, NPL, and every other league that is in existence and will be created in the future.


Thanks Emma.  I told him I was bored and I would ask my friends on the forum


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## Soccerfan2 (Aug 31, 2019)

Justus said:


> Is your dd playing DA?


Yes


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 31, 2019)

Real Deal said:


> You can tack on another 3-4 grand per season for privates/agility/conditioning (whatever) which most are doing and are nearly mandatory for keeping up in DA.  Many are also routinely visiting chiropractors, masseuses, etc.   It's like the kiddie pros really.  I am not the judge of whether that's good or bad, and it will be interesting to see how it goes on the girls' side.


My whole family trains and does recovery in various facilities.  Based on the cross section of the young athletes I see there, it’s not just “mandatory” for DA players, it’s a critical part of many athletes routines both young and old across many sports, leagues and active lifestyles.


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## Justus (Aug 31, 2019)

ToonArmy said:


> Has anybody seen Fred Fred Justjust ellejustus and Luis Andres in the same room?


Justus speaks for me, myself and I.  The other folks I have no clue.


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## Real Deal (Aug 31, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> My whole family trains and does recovery in various facilities.  Based on the cross section of the young athletes I see there, it’s not just “mandatory” for DA players, it’s a critical part of many athletes routines both young and old across many sports, leagues and active lifestyles.


Recovery is indeed crucial but can be as simple as an ice bath which maybe costs $3.00.  Or Normatec which you can use for $15-20 bucks at a Cryo center.  That wasn't what I was referring to.  I feel DA girls and maybe ECNL too I don't know, are training a lot outside of practice and spending a lot for it.  What that will do to the bodies topping off 4 days of practice is what is yet to be determined.  It may be better for all I know. But currently, on the financial side it is an @$100-$200 cost per week which needs to be factored in.


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## Kicker4Life (Aug 31, 2019)

Real Deal said:


> Recovery is indeed crucial but can be as simple as an ice bath which maybe costs $3.00.  Or Normatec which you can use for $15-20 bucks at a Cryo center.  That wasn't what I was referring to.  I feel DA girls and maybe ECNL too I don't know, are training a lot outside of practice and spending a lot for it.  What that will do to the bodies topping off 4 days of practice is what is yet to be determined.  It may be better for all I know. But currently, on the financial side it is an @$100-$200 cost per week which needs to be factored in.


From your outside perspective, what’s does theirs 4 days a week of training entail?  

So many like to reference it....


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## mbeach (Aug 31, 2019)

Real Deal said:


> Recovery is indeed crucial but can be as simple as an ice bath which maybe costs $3.00.  Or Normatec which you can use for $15-20 bucks at a Cryo center.  That wasn't what I was referring to.  I feel DA girls and maybe ECNL too I don't know, are training a lot outside of practice and spending a lot for it.  What that will do to the bodies topping off 4 days of practice is what is yet to be determined.  It may be better for all I know. But currently, on the financial side it is an @$100-$200 cost per week which needs to be factored in.


And you also need to include,  in your case, potential medical bills associated with the strong hating of the parents, when they see a new player coming to the team and act to remove her to eliminate competition.  That strong hating can lead to stomach ulcers, depression, etc.


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## Real Deal (Aug 31, 2019)

mbeach said:


> And you also need to include,  in your case, potential medical bills associated with the strong hating of the parents, when they see a new player coming to the team and act to remove her to eliminate competition.  That strong hating can lead to stomach ulcers, depression, etc.


I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


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## LASTMAN14 (Aug 31, 2019)

Real Deal said:


> I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.


It was a random and odd post.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 1, 2019)

mbeach said:


> And you also need to include,  in your case, potential medical bills associated with the strong hating of the parents, when they see a new player coming to the team and act to remove her to eliminate competition.  That strong hating can lead to stomach ulcers, depression, etc.


I am curious by this post as it seems odd. Are you referencing something that is actually happening at your club?


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## espola (Sep 1, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I am curious by this post as it seems odd. Are you referencing something that is actually happening at your club?


If you think about it, it could happen at any club.  A new player shows up because his family moved in from another state where he was on the State ODP team, or because he is an exchange student from a country where there is no other youth sport than soccer, or because he was invited as a loan player to fill in for just one tournament for an absent/injured player and the coach liked him and managed to recruit him away from his old club - somebody on the pre-existing starting roster just got bumped to the bench.  How does the player (or, as in the discussion, his parents) deal wth that?


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## Yak (Sep 1, 2019)

espola said:


> If you think about it, it could happen at any club.  A new player shows up because his family moved in from another state where he was on the State ODP team, or because he is an exchange student from a country where there is no other youth sport than soccer, or because he was invited as a loan player to fill in for just one tournament for an absent/injured player and the coach liked him and managed to recruit him away from his old club - somebody on the pre-existing starting roster just got bumped to the bench.  How does the player (or, as in the discussion, his parents) deal wth that?


Usually badly.  All friendly and welcoming of the competition until the established player starts getting displaced.


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## Justus (Sep 1, 2019)

espola said:


> If you think about it, it could happen at any club.  A new player shows up because his family moved in from another state where he was on the State ODP team, or because he is an exchange student from a country where there is no other youth sport than soccer, or because he was invited as a loan player to fill in for just one tournament for an absent/injured player and the coach liked him and managed to recruit him away from his old club - somebody on the pre-existing starting roster just got bumped to the bench.  How does the player (or, as in the discussion, his parents) deal wth that?


No Bueno for most involved.  No winners usually on the kids side or parents side regarding team chemistry.


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## bigroyalbastard (Sep 1, 2019)

Justus said:


> An old friend is lurking on here and texted me that they spent over $14,000 last year.  They have money and have no problem with it.  Flying first class to showcases and Nocal and AZ league games.  I think that's on the high end and depending on where your DA club is located will probably determined how much one is willing to pay to travel all over the country watching soccer games.  My guess is around $8,000 a year for avg. family not getting the full scholarship.  Times that by 6 seasons and its got to be over $50,000 to participate in the DA.


You must have been talking to KC.  Does the $14,000 include the trip to Europe to train?  I don't think most parents pay that much for DA.  Most parents don't fly first class to showcases...crazy.


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## Justus (Sep 2, 2019)

bigroyalbastard said:


> You must have been talking to KC.  Does the $14,000 include the trip to Europe to train?  I don't think most parents pay that much for DA.  Most parents don't fly first class to showcases...crazy.


Not sure who KC is but some can and do.  Non first class is still expensive.  I flew Spirit Airlines to save a few bucks.  Horrible decision by the way.  I would recommend fly American and pay the extra $500.  If you got the money go for it


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## Justus (Sep 2, 2019)

*"Fred Fred, post: 282710, member: 6374"]ECNL, you had a great run but it is hard for you to argue that you are the "elite" league. I will go through some common comments and topics you will get from ECNL folks. I want to state that ECNL is a good league and can get your daughter some competition and probably a scholarship, but they can not compete with DA. DA is the elite league in SoCal.*

Fred, are you real?  I will go with a no, but I will respond.  The DA Team that seems to have it going on is Earthquakes.  So I think Earthquakes is far superior to everyone else.  Here's why:

*Earthquakes Expectations: * To maintain a focus on the 10-month club environment.  *Full Time* Academy Players and teams *do not *play in any outside competitions. This includes any other leagues, tournaments, State Cup, ODP or PDP (exceptions are US Training Centers and YNT ).  DA players for *all teams* must choose to participate in the Academy *Full Time* and forgo playing for their High Schools teams.  *Full Time* players train 4 days a week!
(I bet you $1 that Coach Deza does not allow even one player a special waiver or a little "turn the other way" to allow a special favor for someone with other interests besides DA Soccer)

*Earthquakes Coaching:* DOC is Andres Deza.  A native of Barcelona, Spain, Deza has coached nearly a dozen players born between 1998 and 2003 (4 more with his 04' team) who have gone on to earn invites to U.S. Youth National Team or U.S. Women’s National Team camps. Nice to have him at the top driving the bus.

Q.  Does anyone know if Earthquakes offer Full Scholarships to their YNT players or other players based on Merit or Need?


*Other DA Clubs Expectations:*  Commit to the 10-month league as much as possible.  Train 3 days a week or at least 2 if you’re playing another sport or activity.  Play both high school soccer and DA with special waiver or no waiver because no one will know anyways.  Run track, be on HS Surf team, basketball team, dancing or volleyball if you want to.  Must watch video on your own when possible and pay for private coaching and personal private trainers for the other days you need to miss and turn in proof you did the training.

*Coaching:*  All over the place

The moral of the story is find a great coach that is a part of a great club or organization (DA, ECNL, AYSO, SCDSL, Presidio, CSL, DPL, ECNL II, Rec League) that provides a healthy environment and a place where we make sure the girls are having fun.  Season is starting this weekend just like the NFL.  Good luck to everyone on whatever pitch your kid is playing on this weekend


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## Desert Hound (Sep 2, 2019)

bigroyalbastard said:


> You must have been talking to KC.  Does the $14,000 include the trip to Europe to train?  I don't think most parents pay that much for DA.  Most parents don't fly first class to showcases...crazy.


Just depends on the club.

Royals in az cost $2700. Unis are roughly $250. Any trip that involves showcases the club picks up flights and hotel. The vast majority of trips to Cal are again paid by the club. Parents pay roughly $700 for the year for meals. It is cheaper vs del Sol DA and the 2 ECNL teams out here.


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## GoldenGate (Sep 4, 2019)

Justus said:


> *"Fred Fred, post: 282710, member: 6374"]ECNL, you had a great run but it is hard for you to argue that you are the "elite" league. I will go through some common comments and topics you will get from ECNL folks. I want to state that ECNL is a good league and can get your daughter some competition and probably a scholarship, but they can not compete with DA. DA is the elite league in SoCal.*
> 
> Fred, are you real?  I will go with a no, but I will respond.  The DA Team that seems to have it going on is Earthquakes.  So I think Earthquakes is far superior to everyone else.  Here's why:
> 
> ...


FYI, many Quakes GDA players have played HS, including some who’ve returned this season.  Not all Quakes GDA players train 4 days a week, and players do not receive scholarships for playing on a YNT.  You also owe me a dollar.


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## Justus (Sep 4, 2019)

GoldenGate said:


> FYI, many Quakes GDA players have played HS, including some who’ve returned this season.  Not all Quakes GDA players train 4 days a week, and players do not receive scholarships for playing on a YNT.  You also owe me a dollar.


TY "Golden Gate" for giving us all the information we as parents need down here in SoCal.  It's all a BIG scam folks.  If Earthquakes DOC is not "enforcing" the rules of Expectations, than no one is.  Some folks are making a lot of money off false expectations on what it takes to be the next Mia.  Please PM me GG and I will pay you the $1. BTW, I hate the Warriors but they're one hell of team.  Go Lakers   Better yet GG, get a GOATs team formed from NoCal and get your dd down here for the first ever, "All GOATs Labor Day Turney."  @Sombith, can you make this happen?  We will also allow top teams from all over the country to test their teams against the "Best of the Best Local GOAT teams"   Dom?  This could be the change we all need.  A "D0 DA" parade so to speak to "doo doo" on the DA for one weekend.  DA is not going away (unless parents in SoCal do something about it) so you might as well have some fun, right?  A tournament run by crazy parents and their innocent daughters.  No Coaching, No tournament fees, No Teams fees, No Mandatory Hotel stays.  In fact, if your nice to me, I might let some of you stay at my crib at da beach in Laguna.   Just let the girls play, have fun, eat ice cream and pizza and paint face green, yellow, blue or whatever they want.  Just one weekend out of the whole year where no politics, keeping up with the Jones, politicking the coaches to get playing time and or guaranteed field position and starts.  No blacklisting, name calling or labeling families crazy club hoppers is allowed.  I bet Surfref and my dd Grandpa would help ref the games.  However, we should throw them some money for dealing with all the crazy soccer parents.  No one can make money except the Refs!!!!


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## GoldenGate (Sep 4, 2019)

Justus said:


> TY "Golden Gate" for giving us all the information we as parents need down here in SoCal.  It's all a BIG scam folks.  If Earthquakes DOC is not "enforcing" the rules of Expectations, than no one is.  Some folks are making a lot of money off false expectations on what it takes to be the next Mia.  Please PM me GG and I will pay you the $1. BTW, I hate the Warriors but they're one hell of team.  Go Lakers   Better yet GG, get a GOATs team formed from NoCal and get your dd down here for the first ever, "All GOATs Labor Day Turney."  @Sombith, can you make this happen?  We will also allow top teams from all over the country to test their teams against the "Best of the Best Local GOAT teams"   Dom?  This could be the change we all need.  A "D0 DA" parade so to speak to "doo doo" on the DA for one weekend.  DA is not going away (unless parents in SoCal do something about it) so you might as well have some fun, right?  A tournament run by crazy parents and their innocent daughters.  No Coaching, No tournament fees, No Teams fees, No Mandatory Hotel stays.  In fact, if your nice to me, I might let some of you stay at my crib at da beach in Laguna.   Just let the girls play, have fun, eat ice cream and pizza and paint face green, yellow, blue or whatever they want.  Just one weekend out of the whole year where no politics, keeping up with the Jones, politicking the coaches to get playing time and or guaranteed field position and starts.  No blacklisting, name calling or labeling families crazy club hoppers is allowed.  I bet Surfref and my dd Grandpa would help ref the games.  However, we should throw them some money for dealing with all the crazy soccer parents.  No one can make money except the Refs!!!!


Nothing about Quakes is a scam. They do excellent work and follow GDA rules. I’m sure Quakes would prefer no one played HS, but they seem to understand it isn’t their decision to make, and they work within the rules to accommodate when appropriate. I doubt Mr. Deza has ever given anyone false expectations about their ability or future.  He is rather candid, which is one of the things that makes him such an excellent coach and DOC.


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## Justus (Sep 4, 2019)

GoldenGate said:


> Nothing about Quakes is a scam. They do excellent work and follow GDA rules. I’m sure Quakes would prefer no one played HS, but they seem to understand it isn’t their decision to make, and they work within the rules to accommodate when appropriate. I doubt Mr. Deza has ever given anyone false expectations about their ability or future.  He is rather candid, which is one of the things that makes him such an excellent coach and DOC.


I know he's the real deal.  But the website say's something else.  Some in OC say 4 days/10 months but it's not really.  A little, "wink, wink" or "waiver" and no problemo.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 4, 2019)

Justus said:


> I know he's the real deal.  But the website say's something else.  Some in OC say 4 days/10 months but it's not really.  A little, "wink, wink" or "waiver" and no problemo.


As I’ve said repeatedly....”training” can encompass many things. Often during the dredge of the season, we have “home study film sessions” as one of our “training” days.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 4, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> As I’ve said repeatedly....”training” can encompass many things. Often during the dredge of the season, we have “home study film sessions” as one of our “training” days.


To add the staff also has days where the girls will play Frisbee golf, basketball, volleyball to break things up and keep it light.


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## Justus (Sep 4, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> As I’ve said repeatedly....”training” can encompass many things. Often during the dredge of the season, we have “home study film sessions” as one of our “training” days.


I know.  I was always messing with you and took it too far at times.  I apologies.  I know what's going.  This is dance moms but with both parents trying to get the D1 deal.  All good under the sun brah!!!!


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## Justus (Sep 4, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> As I’ve said repeatedly....”training” can encompass many things. Often during the dredge of the season, we have “home study film sessions” as one of our “training” days.


The truth is must clubs allow two days a week


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 4, 2019)

Justus said:


> The truth is must clubs allow two days a week


Your “truth” or reality?


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## Justus (Sep 4, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> Your “truth” or reality?


Without naming names it's a reality.  I know most committed players with goals will go for 3 days but I know many, many players going to just 2.  DA tries to make themselves the great 4 days of training a week with all the special trainers/10 months out of the year "academy" when we all know its the same as ECNL except the rules are different.  I pushed for DA but my dd truly saw the smoke & mirrors sales pitch.  I didn't, she did


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 4, 2019)

Justus said:


> Without naming names it's a reality.  I know most committed players with goals will go for 3 days but I know many, many players going to just 2.  DA tries to make themselves the great 4 days of training a week with all the special trainers/10 months out of the year "academy" when we all know its the same as ECNL except the rules are different.  I pushed for DA but my dd truly saw the smoke & mirrors sales pitch.  I didn't, she did


The “the committed” age group is always a special group. I guess you don’t know what you don’t know when considering your limited exposure


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## MarkM (Sep 4, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> The “the committed” age group is always a special group. I guess you don’t know what you don’t know when considering your limited exposure


Let the troll die.


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## Justus (Sep 13, 2019)

I understand now why its superior


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## timbuck (Sep 16, 2019)

We are now at a point where there are too many damn leagues.  
Have DA.  Have ECNL. 
But DPL and ECNL regional league are just stupid.  Couple that with 3 flavors of flight 1.  

People say the US needs promotion/relegation.  
We keep promoting youth teams, but there is no relegation.  We just keep adding layers. 

I try to keep up on teams/leagues where we have friends playing.   It’s too much work this year.


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## Fact (Sep 16, 2019)

timbuck said:


> We are now at a point where there are too many damn leagues.
> Have DA.  Have ECNL.
> But DPL and ECNL regional league are just stupid.  Couple that with 3 flavors of flight 1.
> 
> ...


Find a coach and a team that is a good fit irregardless of  name/league.  (This is not meant to say that they should play on a team below their ability level.  They might need to play up a year or two or even a girl with boys to find the right level)  It might take your kiddo a little extra effort to be recruited but in the end they will have had a much happier experience.  I promise.


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## timmyh (Sep 27, 2019)

_Copied and pasted the below from the NTX forum in a discussion of High School play and ECNL's college pathway.  
It's an interesting take on where things may be heading:_

There's a lot of evidence that the world (mostly Europe) is closing the gap and that they are producing much greater quantities of women soccer players.  In the current men's college game, about 3 out of 20 players are foreign born.  In the women's college game, about 1 out of 20 players are foreign born.  That higher percentage of males makes sense when looking at historical male/female output for players around the world.  Those percentages are for all college soccer teams, and anecdotally, it seems to me the percentages of foreign-born players for Power 5 colleges are higher (perhaps they have the recruiting budget to widen their searches). 

I see that number rising for the women significantly in the very near future.  In the next decade, because of the boom in the number of quality international soccer players along with the fact that women have a fraction of the professional prospects that men have (thus making an American college scholarship quite an attractive proposition), it would not be surprising at all if that percentage rises from 1 in 20 to something like 4 or 5 in 20.  If that happens, then those roster spots will obviously be at the expense of American players.  The competition for scholarships for US players will increase dramatically. 

The DA believes that spending 3 or 4 month for each of four straight years to leave the club and play high school soccer comes at a developmental cost to the individual player.  I think everyone, even the most die-hard  ECNL fan, would agree with that contention.  With rare exception it's almost certainly true, but such commitment comes with an obvious cost.  That cost is the very reasonable belief that the life experience and fun of playing high school soccer is well worth the minor developmental loss that comes with choosing to play in the generally inferior environment.  I think even the most die-hard DA stans see the merit in that personal decision for many players.  That tradeoff is now easier to justify because the average ECNL player still currently has quality collegiate options.

Putting all that together, though, the competition for college roster spots and money is about to get much more competitive as the rest of the world continues to improve the quality and quantity of its players who will be looking to play at an American college.  If the DA is producing players who have more fully fulfilled their potential and are better equipped to fill the fewer spots available, then I think simple math would suggest that ECNL players will be getting the short end of the stick of being the ones shut out of those 3 or 4 roster spots that will probably soon be going to international players.  It seems likely to me that the consequences of taking a total of 12-16 months off from a high-level club environment to play high school instead of club soccer may become a bit more stark in the near future than it is now. 

Men's college coaches long ago come to the conclusion that boy players who have been in the DA environment are generally better equipped to be an impact college player.  That day is likely coming for the women's game, too.  And combined with the likely influx of impact international players, it seems to me the college scholarship squeeze could be coming for ECNL and especially other "independent" players.


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## Justafan (Sep 27, 2019)

timmyh said:


> _Copied and pasted the below from the NTX forum in a discussion of High School play and ECNL's college pathway.
> It's an interesting take on where things may be heading:_
> 
> There's a lot of evidence that the world (mostly Europe) is closing the gap and that they are producing much greater quantities of women soccer players.  In the current men's college game, about 3 out of 20 players are foreign born.  In the women's college game, about 1 out of 20 players are foreign born.  That higher percentage of males makes sense when looking at historical male/female output for players around the world.  Those percentages are for all college soccer teams, and anecdotally, it seems to me the percentages of foreign-born players for Power 5 colleges are higher (perhaps they have the recruiting budget to widen their searches).
> ...


On the surface it appears very straightforward and logical, but you would have to add up the real number of days/months difference in training days between DA and other leagues.  For example, doesn’t DA take 2 months off anyway?  DA also limits the number of games played for injury prevention, so if you play 10-20 more games than DA while playing in another league


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## Justafan (Sep 27, 2019)

Justafan said:


> On the surface it appears very straightforward and logical, but you would have to add up the real number of days/months difference in training days between DA and other leagues.  For example, doesn’t DA take 2 months off anyway?  DA also limits the number of games played for injury prevention, so if you play 10-20 more games than DA while playing in another league


Oops.....then that counts toward development that you don’t get in DA (assuming of course you don’t get hurt).  So if you add up the real difference in days/spent with your club “developing,” the difference is probably minimal.


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## Fact (Sep 27, 2019)

Justafan said:


> On the surface it appears very straightforward and logical, but you would have to add up the real number of days/months difference in training days between DA and other leagues.  For example, doesn’t DA take 2 months off anyway?  DA also limits the number of games played for injury prevention, so if you play 10-20 more games than DA while playing in another league





Justafan said:


> Oops.....then that counts toward development that you don’t get in DA (assuming of course you don’t get hurt).  So if you add up the real difference in days/spent with your club “developing,” the difference is probably minimal.


Wow, I am proud of you, finally something logical.


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## MarkM (Sep 27, 2019)

Justafan said:


> Oops.....then that counts toward development that you don’t get in DA (assuming of course you don’t get hurt).  So if you add up the real difference in days/spent with your club “developing,” the difference is probably minimal.


You play more club games in DA.  You play more overall games if you play ECNL and HS.  I think most would agree that the HS games don't count (or even detract) from development.  

There are two fewer days of training in ECNL each week.  Some would argue that is unnecessary and leads to burnout.  And some ECNL kids spend those two days training independently.  But no one would argue that there is a minimal difference in days spent with the club between DA and ECNL.


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## timmyh (Sep 27, 2019)

Justafan said:


> On the surface it appears very straightforward and logical, but you would have to add up the real number of days/months difference in training days between DA and other leagues.  For example, doesn’t DA take 2 months off anyway?  DA also limits the number of games played for injury prevention, so if you play 10-20 more games than DA while playing in another league


I don't think the quantity of the training is their point as much as the quality. I think the contention is that, with rare exception, the dozen+ months spent training in the high school environment is less likely to help a player maximize the fulfillment of their potential than a player who is instead spending that time in a top-level club environment.

The developmental difference of 3-4 months per year may not be huge (or worth the trade-off for skipping HS soccer for many), but it pretty inarguably exists and may become quite important if foreign players start increasing the competition for college roster spots. .


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## Justafan (Sep 27, 2019)

timmyh said:


> I don't think the quantity of the training is their point as much as the quality. I think the contention is that, with rare exception, the dozen+ months spent training in the high school environment is less likely to help a player maximize the fulfillment of their potential than a player who is instead spending that time in a top-level club environment.
> 
> The developmental difference of 3-4 months per year may not be huge (or worth the trade-off for skipping HS soccer for many), but it pretty inarguably exists and may become quite important if foreign players start increasing the competition for college roster spots. .


No, the question is how much more time do you spend training with a DA team vs. your own club team (apples to apples) because of the time HS takes away from training with your own club team.  If you compare apples to apples, you probably train about 4 weeks per year more with a DA team than a regular club team.  I would argue that 4 weeks or 1 month a year is not that significant.

Here’s my formula and please correct me if I’m wrong.  DA trains for 10 months and a Discovery level team trains for 8 months (I’ll use our club team as an example), so that’s 2 months difference per year.  However, DA plays 16-30 games/yr (based on Q&A from website), while we play approx 50 (league-12; crl-12; thxgvg showcsse -3; vegas -4; man city 3/4; surf cup-4; blues cup-3/4; scrimmages about 5/6).  So that’s at least around 12-15 more games than DA which amounts to about a months worth of training (i.e. 12-15 practice sessions).  So yes, DA trains more than a regular team but it only translates to about 1 more month per year, not 4.  

Also for that extra month of training, a regular club player puts in 4 months of high school.  It’s nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, but it certainly is not DA.  However, it is still touches on the ball almost everyday of the week. 

So if there is a developmental difference, it’s not because of high school, it will be because of the difference in the club team themselves.  If you train with a very good coach in a non DA team, you’re only training about 1 month less with your club team than a DA team trains with theirs.


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## End of the Line (Sep 27, 2019)

timmyh said:


> _Copied and pasted the below from the NTX forum in a discussion of High School play and ECNL's college pathway.
> It's an interesting take on where things may be heading:_
> 
> There's a lot of evidence that the world (mostly Europe) is closing the gap and that they are producing much greater quantities of women soccer players.  In the current men's college game, about 3 out of 20 players are foreign born.  In the women's college game, about 1 out of 20 players are foreign born.  That higher percentage of males makes sense when looking at historical male/female output for players around the world.  Those percentages are for all college soccer teams, and anecdotally, it seems to me the percentages of foreign-born players for Power 5 colleges are higher (perhaps they have the recruiting budget to widen their searches).
> ...


The flaw in this, and with USSF's thinking, is that it wrongly assumes there is one best path for everyone.  Sure, many will become marginally better if they skip HS and train with their club all year, but they can do that anyway. But forcing kids to skip HS if they want to play high level comp soccer just drives many kids to do something else because training 4x a week for club just isn't a lot of fun for most girls, who have better things to do.  Not all HS programs suck, and there can be significant value for many kids playing HS even beyond getting a little recognition and joy out of the sport every once in a while.  Playing HS almost invariably forces an elite comp player to be more assertive than playing club since they will inevitably be "the man", for example.  And is likely to keep a lot more kids playing soccer and for longer than they would otherwise.  Telling an 8th grade girl that their HS sports career is over before it began if they want to play soccer just means many kids will play some other sport.  Like I have said many times, the only advantage the US has over other countries is that far more girls play the sport and for longer, and everything US Soccer does to deter anyone from playing the sport only helps level the playing field.

Another flaw is the assumption that more foreign players will overwhelm the college ranks.  The reality is no one is getting any better, and there is absolutely no evidence that the rest of the World is closing any gaps.  The WNT is the most dominating, and over the longest period of time, it has been in its entire history.  When France gets better, Japan gets worse.  When England gets better, Sweden gets worse.  Worrying that foreigners will soon take all the college slots from our American girls is more than a little xenophobic, and there is nothing to support the proposition that the U.S. is falling behind. 

That said, the WNT will soon start to fail, but not because kids play HS, and because of the biggest flaw in your argument, which is that the DA is generally better equipped to make an impact college player. That is true on the boys' side, but only because the DA wiped out the competition and the entire competitive landscape, so the only decent players must play DA.  By default that makes them better equipped to be impact players than those who don't play DA.  However, those impact college players (and all players produced in the DA) are worse overall than what the U.S. was producing pre-DA.  The overall quality of boys youth players has declined significantly compared to the pre-DA era, and that cannot be reasonably disputed.  After more than a decade of the DA, the MNT couldn't qualify for the WC, couldn't beat Trinidad and Tobago, and the new crop of players just got humiliated by Mexico. Sure they tied Uruguay, but without Suarez, Cavani, Godin, or anybody really.  The current state of men's soccer is the worst it has ever been in the U.S., mostly because the US hasn't produced anyone who can play during the DA era. Even the mighty Pulisic can barely find the field for Chelsea. The DA system prohibits so many kids with potential from being able to play soccer at a high level even if they wanted to.  Kids quit because it's too expensive, or too time consuming, or they can't impress HS cheerleaders, or the time commitment negatively impacts their grades, or they can't play football, or whatever the reason.  The one thing USSF fails to understand is the only thing that can make a better soccer country is to have more kids play it, more often, and for a longer span of years. Everything abut the DA does the opposite of that.


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## MarkM (Sep 27, 2019)

Justafan said:


> No, the question is how much more time do you spend training with a DA team vs. your own club team (apples to apples) because of the time HS takes away from training with your own club team.  If you compare apples to apples, you probably train about 4 weeks per year more with a DA team than a regular club team.  I would argue that 4 weeks or 1 month a year is not that significant.
> 
> Here’s my formula and please correct me if I’m wrong.  DA trains for 10 months and a Discovery level team trains for 8 months (I’ll use our club team as an example), so that’s 2 months difference per year.  However, DA plays 16-30 games/yr (based on Q&A from website), while we play approx 50 (league-12; crl-12; thxgvg showcsse -3; vegas -4; man city 3/4; surf cup-4; blues cup-3/4; scrimmages about 5/6).  So that’s at least around 12-15 more games than DA which amounts to about a months worth of training (i.e. 12-15 practice sessions).  So yes, DA trains more than a regular team but it only translates to about 1 more month per year, not 4.
> 
> ...


Your formula is wrong.  The DA SW conference plays about 35 games a year.  Those teams also play in tournaments and scrimmage.  Most importantly, you are counting weeks/months instead of days.  You should assume two less training days a week.  That's a huge difference.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 27, 2019)

End of the Line said:


> The flaw in this, and with USSF's thinking, is that it wrongly assumes there is one best path for everyone.  Sure, many will become marginally better if they skip HS and train with their club all year, but they can do that anyway. But forcing kids to skip HS if they want to play high level comp soccer just drives many kids to do something else because training 4x a week for club just isn't a lot of fun for most girls, who have better things to do.  Not all HS programs suck, and there can be significant value for many kids playing HS even beyond getting a little recognition and joy out of the sport every once in a while.  Playing HS almost invariably forces an elite comp player to be more assertive than playing club since they will inevitably be "the man", for example.  And is likely to keep a lot more kids playing soccer and for longer than they would otherwise.  Telling an 8th grade girl that their HS sports career is over before it began if they want to play soccer just means many kids will play some other sport.  Like I have said many times, the only advantage the US has over other countries is that far more girls play the sport and for longer, and everything US Soccer does to deter anyone from playing the sport only helps level the playing field.
> 
> Another flaw is the assumption that more foreign players will overwhelm the college ranks.  The reality is no one is getting any better, and there is absolutely no evidence that the rest of the World is closing any gaps.  The WNT is the most dominating, and over the longest period of time, it has been in its entire history.  When France gets better, Japan gets worse.  When England gets better, Sweden gets worse.  Worrying that foreigners will soon take all the college slots from our American girls is more than a little xenophobic, and there is nothing to support the proposition that the U.S. is falling behind.
> 
> That said, the WNT will soon start to fail, but not because kids play HS, and because of the biggest flaw in your argument, which is that the DA is generally better equipped to make an impact college player. That is true on the boys' side, but only because the DA wiped out the competition and the entire competitive landscape, so the only decent players must play DA.  By default that makes them better equipped to be impact players than those who don't play DA.  However, those impact college players (and all players produced in the DA) are worse overall than what the U.S. was producing pre-DA.  The overall quality of boys youth players has declined significantly compared to the pre-DA era, and that cannot be reasonably disputed.  After more than a decade of the DA, the MNT couldn't qualify for the WC, couldn't beat Trinidad and Tobago, and the new crop of players just got humiliated by Mexico. Sure they tied Uruguay, but without Suarez, Cavani, Godin, or anybody really.  The current state of men's soccer is the worst it has ever been in the U.S., mostly because the US hasn't produced anyone who can play during the DA era. Even the mighty Pulisic can barely find the field for Chelsea. The DA system prohibits so many kids with potential from being able to play soccer at a high level even if they wanted to.  Kids quit because it's too expensive, or too time consuming, or they can't impress HS cheerleaders, or the time commitment negatively impacts their grades, or they can't play football, or whatever the reason.  The one thing USSF fails to understand is the only thing that can make a better soccer country is to have more kids play it, more often, and for a longer span of years. Everything abut the DA does the opposite of that.


Funny how we NEVER hear your reference YOUR kids experiences within any league.......why is that?


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## Justafan (Sep 27, 2019)

MarkM said:


> Your formula is wrong.  The DA SW conference plays about 35 games a year.  Those teams also play in tournaments and scrimmage.  Most importantly, you are counting weeks/months instead of days.  You should assume two less training days a week.  That's a huge difference.


All teams that I know practice at least three times per week and most players do a private or speed and agility 1x/week, so I don’t see a difference there.  Regarding the number of DA games, I just went by the website, but even so, a regular club team plays around 10 more games than a DA team wouldn’t you say?


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## Dof3 (Sep 27, 2019)

This all strikes me as a nonsensical exercise in let's make up some numbers with no empirical support or value.  Why would one assume that girls practicing twice a week with an ECNL team and who also aspire to play college soccer are not also doing separate training with a private coach (whether individually or small group in arguably more individually focused training)? And/or training on her own?  Also true for DA kids despite their more demanding club training schedule.  Also, all coaches are not the same.  Less time with better coach likely has a greater impact than more time with worse coach.  Speculating on the "average" kid's minutes and the quality of those minutes on the ball over 5 years between these two different leagues is a speculative fool's errand.

My kid plays ECNL.  Training is great.  Big step up from what she has had before now.  But I wish she and some of the SoCal DA clubs were in the same league.  Her team would challenge those DA teams and the DA teams would challenge her team.  I expect her team would win some and lose some.  Isn't that the point?  Whichever league you prefer, it seems inarguable that all DA and ECNL teams in SoCal are missing a good opportunity to play some other quality competition in a local setting.  Seems like a pretty wasteful outcome to me and I struggle to see how it is in the best interests of the girls who play in DA or ECNL.


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## Justafan (Sep 27, 2019)

MarkM said:


> Your formula is wrong.  The DA SW conference plays about 35 games a year.  Those teams also play in tournaments and scrimmage.  Most importantly, you are counting weeks/months instead of days.  You should assume two less training days a week.  That's a huge difference.


I just looked up the 2019/20 season and I counted 24 league games for U-16.


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 27, 2019)

Justafan said:


> I just looked up the 2019/20 season and I counted 24 league games for U-16.


In 2018/19..... The SW u16/17 played between 32 and 36 games not including Playoffs.

Across all other Divisions, the minimum was 23 games (Cedar Stars and PA Classics) and the Max was 30 (about 5 different clubs) and these do not include Playoff games for teams that made it.

Not here to argue the semantics of leagues, just wanted to clarify # of games.


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## timbuck (Sep 27, 2019)

I've heard the HS stories for years, but living it now.  No real opinion yet.  I've watched several games over the years and while the play isn't the prettiest, the physicality didn't seem to much different.  Refs are refs.  Some good and some bad.  It is, what it is.
But-  for girls (and probably boys too) that make a HS roster, they get to replace their PE class with "Soccer Class".  This started within a week or 2 of the school year starting (so about a month ago).
3 days a week they "practice".  Monday is only an hour and sometimes they don't do much at all.  Tuesday and Thursday are for 2 to 2.5 hours. Typically 1 hour of that is soccer related (Skills, small sided games, full field games) and 1 hour is spent in the weight room.
For club teams that have their practice on those days, I can see it becoming an issue.  4 hours of soccer per day isn't really an ideal situation.  Especially if the club coach "doesn't care that you just worked your butt off in the weight room or ran 120's an hour ago."  

And for those that say "High School doesn't matter"  - Tell that to the kids that didn't get selected for a roster spot.


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## cheaper2keeper (Sep 27, 2019)

Justafan said:


> I just looked up the 2019/20 season and I counted 24 league games for U-16.


Showcase schedules aren’t available yet. That’s 9 more games.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 27, 2019)

timbuck said:


> I've heard the HS stories for years, but living it now.  No real opinion yet.  I've watched several games over the years and while the play isn't the prettiest, the physicality didn't seem to much different.  Refs are refs.  Some good and some bad.  It is, what it is.
> But-  for girls (and probably boys too) that make a HS roster, they get to replace their PE class with "Soccer Class".  This started within a week or 2 of the school year starting (so about a month ago).
> 3 days a week they "practice".  Monday is only an hour and sometimes they don't do much at all.  Tuesday and Thursday are for 2 to 2.5 hours. Typically 1 hour of that is soccer related (Skills, small sided games, full field games) and 1 hour is spent in the weight room.
> For club teams that have their practice on those days, I can see it becoming an issue.  4 hours of soccer per day isn't really an ideal situation.  Especially if the club coach "doesn't care that you just worked your butt off in the weight room or ran 120's an hour ago."
> ...


Not being selected for a roster spot for any sport is not a soccer issue alone. And not a new one.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 27, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> Funny how we NEVER hear your reference YOUR kids experiences within any league.......why is that?


They don’t.


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## dad4 (Sep 27, 2019)

Looking in from the younger ages, the whole DA/ECNL thing looks mighty silly.

D of 3 nailed it when he asked that the top teams play the other top teams.   Both sides are
  flying 400 miles to pummel a second rate team when they have great competition next door.

Note I said top teams, not top clubs.  if you have 5 great years and one that is not so great,
the so-so team belongs in a regional league along with all the other similar teams.   
Similarly, if a small club has a first rate team, let that team in the top circuit.


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## futboldad1 (Sep 27, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> In 2018/19..... The SW u16/17 played between 32 and 36 games not including Playoffs.
> 
> Across all other Divisions, the minimum was 23 games (Cedar Stars and PA Classics) and the Max was 30 (about 5 different clubs) and these do not include Playoff games for teams that made it.
> 
> Not here to argue the semantics of leagues, just wanted to clarify # of games.


Enough with the facts and non-partisan posts jk Number of official club games for SW teams seems to close enough to the same for whether SW DA (24 league + 9 showcase games) or SW ECNL (22 league + 9 showcase games). There is then the postseason for both to be added to these totals where applicable.

Honestly, can't believe ppl are still arguing about DA and ECNL. If you don't want to travel, don't play DA or ECNL. If you want top level soccer with the HS experience, pick ECNL. If you want top level soccer without the HS experience, pick DA. If you want mandatory practice 2-3 days a week pick ECNL, if you want mandatory practice time 3-4 days a week pick DA. Other than that, they are the same- some top teams, some good teams and a few relatively weak teams.

Look, nothing is perfect (cost, travel and so on) but please for the love of god stop b!itching and promoting one league as the be-all-end-all and be happy that as consumers we have such choices.

Find a coach your kid likes, a team your kid likes and then sit back and let your DD enjoy the game!


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 27, 2019)

futboldad1 said:


> Enough with the facts and non-partisan posts jk Number of official club games for SW teams seems to close enough to the same for whether SW DA (24 league + 9 showcase games) or SW ECNL (22 league + 9 showcase games). There is then the postseason for both to be added to these totals where applicable.
> 
> Honestly, can't believe ppl are still arguing about DA and ECNL. If you don't want to travel, don't play DA or ECNL. If you want top level soccer with the HS experience, pick ECNL. If you want top level soccer without the HS experience, pick DA. If you want mandatory practice 2-3 days a week pick ECNL, if you want mandatory practice time 3-4 days a week pick DA. Other than that, they are the same- some top teams, some good teams and a few relatively weak teams.
> 
> ...


I believe the horse twitched so someone had to beat it again!


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## Fact (Sep 30, 2019)

So we were discussing the travel teams have to do because of all the fracturing into different leagues. I noticed that Albion went to Colorado for 1 league game this weekend. They did fine with 1 win, 2 ties and the U16s getting crushed but looking at the playing time, 2 girls got 4 minutes!  Not sure but some were listed as reserve. Does this mean they went all the way to Colorado to warm the bench?  If so, that is not good for any child. 

Other observations I had. I don’t see DP players listed on any of the club teams I looked at.  Is that allowed only later in the season?  If so I think that is a good idea to let the players that made the team have an opportunity to prove themselves.

Finally a lot of teams have less than 18 players. Is that due to the playing time requirements,  not enough players on that level or a lack of interest in those particular teams?


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## Kicker4Life (Sep 30, 2019)

Fact said:


> So we were discussing the travel teams have to do because of all the fracturing into different leagues. I noticed that Albion went to Colorado for 1 league game this weekend. They did fine with 1 win, 2 ties and the U16s getting crushed but looking at the playing time, 2 girls got 4 minutes!  Not sure but some were listed as reserve. Does this mean they went all the way to Colorado to warm the bench?  If so, that is not good for any child.
> 
> Other observations I had. I don’t see DP players listed on any of the club teams I looked at.  Is that allowed only later in the season?  If so I think that is a good idea to let the players that made the team have an opportunity to prove themselves.
> 
> Finally a lot of teams have less than 18 players. Is that due to the playing time requirements,  not enough players on that level or a lack of interest in those particular teams?


I wonder if this is why ECNL doesn’t go into detail about minutes played?


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 30, 2019)

Fact said:


> So we were discussing the travel teams have to do because of all the fracturing into different leagues. I noticed that Albion went to Colorado for 1 league game this weekend. They did fine with 1 win, 2 ties and the U16s getting crushed but looking at the playing time, 2 girls got 4 minutes!  Not sure but some were listed as reserve. Does this mean they went all the way to Colorado to warm the bench?  If so, that is not good for any child.
> 
> Other observations I had. I don’t see DP players listed on any of the club teams I looked at.  Is that allowed only later in the season?  If so I think that is a good idea to let the players that made the team have an opportunity to prove themselves.
> 
> Finally a lot of teams have less than 18 players. Is that due to the playing time requirements,  not enough players on that level or a lack of interest in those particular teams?


In response to your other observations. If a player is listed at PT they are a DP. For example Albion had one listed for the U16 age group but was not rostered that day. Our 05 team has one DP player listed and has played and our 06 team has two listed; one of which has played twice. Carrying small rosters should give clubs the opportunity to provide playing time. Our 05 and 06 teams only carry 16 and 15 players. Thus far it has worked out well with time on the field. However, if a player is given few minutes to play that is on the coaching staff and I don’t think specific to any league.


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