# Club Soccer and High School Track



## SCS Fan (Jan 12, 2017)

My 9th grade DD is going to try HS track this year.  She has always been one of the fastest on her teams.  She thinks she would be good at the 800.  I told her that should be the longest that she runs.  I initially thought track would be good for her soccer training, but have come across some things on the internet that say otherwise.  I keep thinking that running sprints in track has to be good for her overall fitness.  But there is also a concern she will be doing track while club soccer starts up again and it may be too much physical stress.  Her club coach supports playing other HS sports.  Any thoughts on running track while also playing club soccer?


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## The Driver (Jan 12, 2017)

Why do you think your dd should run long distance over middle distance?


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## MakeAPlay (Jan 12, 2017)

SCS Fan said:


> My 9th grade DD is going to try HS track this year.  She has always been one of the fastest on her teams.  She thinks she would be good at the 800.  I told her that should be the longest that she runs.  I initially thought track would be good for her soccer training, but have come across some things on the internet that say otherwise.  I keep thinking that running sprints in track has to be good for her overall fitness.  But there is also a concern she will be doing track while club soccer starts up again and it may be too much physical stress.  Her club coach supports playing other HS sports.  Any thoughts on running track while also playing club soccer?



My player did it every year.  She had to miss CIF finals due to club conflicts every year and usually had to scratch at least two of her events in CIF prelims each year due to schedule conflicts but it was a great experience.  Her track coaches weren't happy that she had to scratch but they understood soccer was her #1 sport.  It was great for fitness and for speed.  I highly recommend it.


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## SCS Fan (Jan 12, 2017)

The Driver said:


> Why do you think your dd should run long distance over middle distance?


I don't think that.  I think she should run events that are 800 or less.


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## MakeAPlay (Jan 12, 2017)

SCS Fan said:


> I don't think that.  I think she should run events that are 800 or less.


I agree although if she is a midfielder the 1600 is fine.  They can run from 7-9 miles a game.


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## SCS Fan (Jan 12, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I agree although if she is a midfielder the 1600 is fine.  They can run from 7-9 miles a game.


Thanks.  She is a midfielder/defender.


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## LadiesMan217 (Jan 12, 2017)

My DD coaches (multiple) have told her to pick any sport but track. I have not done any research - this is a 16 year old kid not a professional soccer player...


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## MakeAPlay (Jan 12, 2017)

LadiesMan217 said:


> My DD coaches (multiple) have told her to pick any sport but track. I have not done any research - this is a 16 year old kid not a professional soccer player...


They are probably thinking about themselves and conflicts not your daughter.


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## LadiesMan217 (Jan 12, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> They are probably thinking about themselves and conflicts not your daughter.


Nothing to do with conflicts as other sports would conflict. Both (different clubs and real good coaches) said it is bad thing to do for a soccer player. We just brushed it off and didn't ask why and really didn't care.


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## LadiesMan217 (Jan 12, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> They are probably thinking about themselves and conflicts not your daughter.


Probably this.


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## MakeAPlay (Jan 12, 2017)

LadiesMan217 said:


> Nothing to do with conflicts as other sports would conflict. Both (different clubs and real good coaches) said it is bad thing to do for a soccer player. We just brushed it off and didn't ask why and really didn't care.


Smart move.  Focus on your player.  You know her better than they do.


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## Justafan (Jan 12, 2017)

If she can hit under 60 sec in the 400, or 2:20 in the 800, she's looking at a D-II scholarship.


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## The Driver (Jan 12, 2017)

Justafan said:


> If she can hit under 60 sec in the 400, or 2:20 in the 800, she's looking at a D-II scholarship.


 Let her run over hurdles. The track coach will freak because your dd will naturally alternate legs over the hurdles. Soccer players and hurdlers share something in common.


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## The Driver (Jan 12, 2017)

PV LJ TJ because of their plant foot. They tend to do well in events also.


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## SCS Fan (Jan 13, 2017)

LadiesMan217 said:


> My DD coaches (multiple) have told her to pick any sport but track. I have not done any research - this is a 16 year old kid not a professional soccer player...


From what little I have read on the internet I think those coaches say that because Track and Field deals with straight-line speed while some other sports (Basketball, Volleyball, Field Hockey) involve lateral movement similar to Soccer.  So, those team sports would be preferable over Track and Field.   Mainly due to Club Soccer my DD is a 1 sport athlete so Track and Field is a sport she won't really be behind too much in.  She might try field hockey next year.  My conclusion is 3 months of Track and Field will do more good than harm and she will still be playing club soccer.  I'm looking forward to see how she does in Track and Field.


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## The Driver (Jan 13, 2017)

SCS Fan said:


> From what little I have read on the internet I think those coaches say that because Track and Field deals with straight-line speed while some other sports (Basketball, Volleyball, Field Hockey) involve lateral movement similar to Soccer.  So, those team sports would be preferable over Track and Field.


Sounds like something a soccer coach would say.


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## Surfref (Jan 13, 2017)

My DD had several teammates that tried the cross country/track and club soccer at the same time.  They all ended up with injuries that their doctors attributed to too much running.  Most of them either dropped soccer or running by their junior year in HS.


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## MakeAPlay (Jan 13, 2017)

SCS Fan said:


> From what little I have read on the internet I think those coaches say that because Track and Field deals with straight-line speed while some other sports (Basketball, Volleyball, Field Hockey) involve lateral movement similar to Soccer.  So, those team sports would be preferable over Track and Field.   Mainly due to Club Soccer my DD is a 1 sport athlete so Track and Field is a sport she won't really be behind too much in.  She might try field hockey next year.  My conclusion is 3 months of Track and Field will do more good than harm and she will still be playing club soccer.  I'm looking forward to see how she does in Track and Field.


My player ran track her whole high school career and a couple of years before that.  She never had a problem.  Not sure who was giving you the advice or who wrote the stuff on the internet.  Perhaps it was that Nigerian prince that has millions stuck and just needs like $10k for the wire transfer fee.  Either way just listen to your player.  If she is tired talk to the coach about reducing her conditioning (my player wouldn't do any soccer conditioning during track season).  There are lots of options just come up with a plan.  This is the first year that she hasn't played more than one sport and it's because soccer is her job now.


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## MakeAPlay (Jan 13, 2017)

Surfref said:


> My DD had several teammates that tried the cross country/track and club soccer at the same time.  They all ended up with injuries that their doctors attributed to too much running.  Most of them either dropped soccer or running by their junior year in HS.


I respect your opinion a ton Surfref but my player never had an issue with it.  If she was tired we just cut back her training.  She didn't do soccer conditioning during track season.  We made it clear to both coaches that club soccer was number one.  We were lucky and both of her coaches wanted what was best for her even if it cost the track coach a couple of section and state titles.


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## mirage (Jan 14, 2017)

Most sports doctors say that if you want to play multiple sports, pick sports that do not double or triple up on same body parts.

The easiest example is if a baseball/softball player also playing tennis or water polo.  The arm motion and stress on rotator cuff is very similar.  I can imagine that soccer and any running sports, like track/cross-country falls into the similar category.

I've read that professional soccer players (mens) run about 5~6 miles during a 90 minute game in EPL.  For youth players I'ver read the similar comparison of 3~4 miles in a game for olders.  So running more doesn't make much sense.  Try swim, tennis, or other non-contact sports that doesn't stress legs....


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## Kicknit22 (Jan 14, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I respect your opinion a ton Surfref but my player never had an issue with it.  If she was tired we just cut back her training.  She didn't do soccer conditioning during track season.  We made it clear to both coaches that club soccer was number one.  We were lucky and both of her coaches wanted what was best for her even if it cost the track coach a couple of section and state titles.


Even if it cost the track coach a couple of section and state titles!  Too funny.


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## MakeAPlay (Jan 14, 2017)

Kicknit22 said:


> Even if it cost the track coach a couple of section and state titles!  Too funny.


Yup.  Easy choice for her.  She loves soccer.  It's a team sport.  She would never let her team down.


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## Kicknit22 (Jan 14, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Yup.  Easy choice for her.  She loves soccer.  It's a team sport.  She would never let her team down.


Don't get me wrong MAP, most of my time spent on this forum is less about info and more about entertainment.  I got a kick out of reading the posts from parents who so obviously live vicariously through thier kids.  No one does it more proud and obvious than you.   Heck, the world might be a better place if all parents put thier kids on a pedestal like you.  I really hope that they use a lot of Bubble wrap when they relocate the statue of your DD from your yard to the College stadium entrance some day.


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## Surfref (Jan 15, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> I respect your opinion a ton Surfref but my player never had an issue with it.  If she was tired we just cut back her training.  She didn't do soccer conditioning during track season.  We made it clear to both coaches that club soccer was number one.  We were lucky and both of her coaches wanted what was best for her even if it cost the track coach a couple of section and state titles.


Glad it worked out.  My DD teammates were doing 3x a week soccer practice, 1x week with personal trainer and games at the same time running longer distance cross country and track.  I think they would have not had problems if they had cut out the personal training and not run the long distance.  They were running 3-8 miles a day for cross country/ track.  She did have a teammate that ran 100 and 200 sprints that had no problems.


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## Surfref (Jan 15, 2017)

mirage said:


> Most sports doctors say that if you want to play multiple sports, pick sports that do not double or triple up on same body parts.
> 
> The easiest example is if a baseball/softball player also playing tennis or water polo.  The arm motion and stress on rotator cuff is very similar.  I can imagine that soccer and any running sports, like track/cross-country falls into the similar category.
> 
> I've read that professional soccer players (mens) run about 5~6 miles during a 90 minute game in EPL.  For youth players I'ver read the similar comparison of 3~4 miles in a game for olders.  So running more doesn't make much sense.  Try swim, tennis, or other non-contact sports that doesn't stress legs....


I wear a GPS watch when I referee and have been averaging 5-6 miles per high school game and 6-7 per U18/19 game.  One of my DD college teammates has a pair of the Addidas cleats that has the sports tracker built into the sole.  She is an outside midfielder ( team usually played 3-3-4) and averaged 8 miles a game this past fall with 10.4 in one game.


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## Surfref (Jan 15, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Yup.  Easy choice for her.  She loves soccer.  It's a team sport.  She would never let her team down.


One of my DD teammates that dropped soccer went on to get a 75% scholarship to run long distance track.      I don't think she would have got the scholarship had she continued to play soccer.  When she was doing both sports she tended to have a lot of injuries.


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## Bdobyns (Jan 16, 2017)

Surfref said:


> One of my DD teammates that dropped soccer went on to get a 75% scholarship to run long distance track.      I don't think she would have got the scholarship had she continued to play soccer.  When she was doing both sports she tended to have a lot of injuries.


Have a student that was a stud soccer player, ECNL I think.  She started running as a freshman and now as a junior has 20+ schools looking at her for track, UCLA being one of them.  Due to the potential injury factor in soccer, she quit playing.  Looking for her to set State records and eventually be in the Olympics.  Soccer wouldn't have done that for her.


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## SCS Fan (Jan 17, 2017)

MakeAPlay said:


> Not sure who was giving you the advice or who wrote the stuff on the internet.  Perhaps it was that Nigerian prince that has millions stuck and just needs like $10k for the wire transfer fee.


So Track and Field does not focus on straight-line speed and Track and Field promotes lateral motion?  Crazy talk much?


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## Daniel Miller (Jan 17, 2017)

SCS Fan said:


> So Track and Field does not focus on straight-line speed and Track and Field promotes lateral motion?  Crazy talk much?


Let's assume that track and field "focuses" on "straight-line speed" instead of "lateral motion."  So what?  There is still a huge overlap of of soccer running skills developed in track and field.

1.  Stride length and turnover rates:  If there is one recurring running problem I see with soccer players, it is overstriding.  This reduces speed because the additional heel-striking acts as a brake to every step.  Overstriding reduces a runner's turnover rate, which also slows a runner down.  When track coaches talk about getting an "extra step or two," they usually mean getting an additional stride or two in the same distance, which increases overall speed.  Overstriding and low turnover rates also hurt dribbling technique, because good dribblers use short strides so that their feet are always closer to the ball.  Overstriding is the first mechanical problem addressed by most track coaches, whether in sprints or long distances.

2.  Torque:  All good track coaches teach runners how to increase the force and rate of rotation in the abdominal section, because these muscles lift the knees up.  This is mostly done with endless sprints and technical training.  It is the same abdominal strength which allows players to drive their quad upward, allowing stronger kicks.

3.  Fast-twitch muscle development:  Soccer is primarily a "slow-twitch" muscle-cell game, and few soccer players develop their speed to its maximum.  Most soccer running is done at a slow jog to a walking pace, with a relatively few periodic sprints interspersed.  Soccer is fabulous for developing slow-twitch muscle cells, in the same way as cross-country running.  Sprinters have a much higher need for fast-twitch muscle cells, and training as a sprinter develops these muscles better than anything else, except possibly weight training.  As a result, most soccer players who train as sprinters run faster than those who don't.

4.  Anaerobic recovery and ability to delay the build-up of lactic acid:  Sprinters have better anaerobic recovery rates than long-distance runners.  Because soccer is more like long-distance running than sprint-training, a player who trains for sprints will improve her anaerobic recovery rate.  Sprint-training also helps to delay the build-up of lactic acid in muscle cells, which helps a player's endurance.


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## Bdobyns (Jan 17, 2017)

How many college football players also run track?  

My girl's club teammate also runs track.  State level sprinter (beyond region).  OCVarsity just mentioned that she is also the top goal scorer in the county right now, http://www.ocvarsity.com/articles/league-86269-chargers-first.html

Short girls really should be working on jumping, such as long, triple and high jump to make up for the lack of height.  Many college coaches look at height and if your girl isn't 5'10" but has a 12" more of a vertical leap than the other girl, might be a good selling point.


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## MakeAPlay (Jan 17, 2017)

SCS Fan said:


> So Track and Field does not focus on straight-line speed and Track and Field promotes lateral motion?  Crazy talk much?


Depends upon the event.  Look I'm not going to argue with you about what might work.  You do whatever you want with your player.  I know what worked for mine and track was a big part of it.  She is doing pretty good so far in college.  I can tell you that no player that get significant game time on her team is slow.  All of them are expected to have great technical skills and lateral quickness.  Good luck to you and yours.


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## MakeAPlay (Jan 17, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> Let's assume that track and field "focuses" on "straight-line speed" instead of "lateral motion."  So what?  There is still a huge overlap of of soccer running skills developed in track and field.
> 
> 1.  Stride length and turnover rates:  If there is one recurring running problem I see with soccer players, it is overstriding.  This reduces speed because the additional heel-striking acts as a brake to every step.  Overstriding reduces a runner's turnover rate, which also slows a runner down.  When track coaches talk about getting an "extra step or two," they usually mean getting an additional stride or two in the same distance, which increases overall speed.  Overstriding and low turnover rates also hurt dribbling technique, because good dribblers use short strides so that their feet are always closer to the ball.  Overstriding is the first mechanical problem addressed by most track coaches, whether in sprints or long distances.
> 
> ...


Preach it DM!!  I have seen how much of a difference it makes which is why I made sure my player ran track since 7th grade.  She is always one of the fastest on the field and it makes a difference.


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## Bdobyns (Jan 22, 2017)

https://www.trackingfootball.com/blog/

I guess that Football players are different than futbol players...90% of the players in the NFL conference finals today played multiple sports in high school.


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## espola (Jan 23, 2017)

Bdobyns said:


> https://www.trackingfootball.com/blog/
> 
> I guess that Football players are different than futbol players...90% of the players in the NFL conference finals today played multiple sports in high school.


Any child who plays football year round runs the risk of being crippled by age 18.


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## Daniel Miller (Jan 23, 2017)

espola said:


> Any child who plays football year round runs the risk of being crippled by age 18.


Ahh ... risk analysis.  Espola is not wrong, but his analysis is too shallow.  Children who participate in gymnastics, rugby, boxing, karate, rodeo, soccer, baseball, basketball, weightlifting, sailing, climbing, skiing, and almost any other sport one can think of, all risk "crippling injury."  So what are the reasons for putting your kids in sport at all?

1.  Exercise:  Most sports provide a lot of exercise, but the safest and most healthful activity is just doing a lot of walking.  Personally, I have never heard of, nor can conceive of a person getting a "crippling injury" by walking, unless stepping in front of a car counts.  So forget this soccer stuff; the smart choice is to avoid competitive sports and just walk daily with your child.

2.  Mental benefits:  Competitive sports are said to provide discipline and teamwork skills, which give life-long benefits.  Of course, so do forensic debates, academic decathlons, robotics contests, Boy Scouts, theater and cotillion.  Those are all a lot safer than sports.  So why choose dangerous sports?

3.  Mating Strategy:  This is the only one I really believe.   We (especially males) play sports to attract mates.  In all life as we know it, animals compete.  Few fight to the death, but many fight to "crippling injury."  Animals compete in other ways too: bowerbirds build elaborate nests; antelopes stott; monkeys howl.  Humans are the same:  chicks dig artists and singers, but mostly they dig athletes.  I believe that, deep down, nearly every kid plays sports to "show off," at least to some degree, which is a mating strategy.  We choose dangerous sports because these are the ones that show the most "fitness," from a biological sense.  The best athletes seemingly have the best genes, and are first choices when it comes to passing those genes along.  Cheerleaders always date quarterbacks; never towel boys.


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## NoGoal (Jan 23, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> Ahh ... risk analysis.  Espola is not wrong, but his analysis is too shallow.  Children who participate in gymnastics, rugby, boxing, karate, rodeo, soccer, baseball, basketball, weightlifting, sailing, climbing, skiing, and almost any other sport one can think of, all risk "crippling injury."  So what are the reasons for putting your kids in sport at all?
> 
> 1.  Exercise:  Most sports provide a lot of exercise, but the safest and most healthful activity is just doing a lot of walking.  Personally, I have never heard of, nor can conceive of a person getting a "crippling injury" by walking, unless stepping in front of a car counts.  So forget this soccer stuff; the smart choice is to avoid competitive sports and just walk daily with your child.
> 
> ...


Unless that towel boy happens to be extremely intelligent and ends up being a corporate officer (CEO, CFO, COO, etc) at any Fortune 500 company.


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## NoGoal (Jan 23, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> Let's assume that track and field "focuses" on "straight-line speed" instead of "lateral motion."  So what?  There is still a huge overlap of of soccer running skills developed in track and field.
> 
> 1.  Stride length and turnover rates:  If there is one recurring running problem I see with soccer players, it is overstriding.  This reduces speed because the additional heel-striking acts as a brake to every step.  Overstriding reduces a runner's turnover rate, which also slows a runner down.  When track coaches talk about getting an "extra step or two," they usually mean getting an additional stride or two in the same distance, which increases overall speed.  Overstriding and low turnover rates also hurt dribbling technique, because good dribblers use short strides so that their feet are always closer to the ball.  Overstriding is the first mechanical problem addressed by most track coaches, whether in sprints or long distances.
> 
> ...


Overstriding also leads to knee injuries.


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## espola (Jan 23, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> Unless that towel boy happens to be extremely intelligent and ends up being a corporate officer (CEO, CFO, COO, etc) at any Fortune 500 company.


Examples - the head of USSF and the head of NFL.


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## Daniel Miller (Jan 23, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> Unless that towel boy happens to be extremely intelligent and ends up being a corporate officer (CEO, CFO, COO, etc) at any Fortune 500 company.


In nature, mating strategies rarely look to the long-term.  The moose with the harem is not the one who is likely to live the longest, or to become wisest; he is the one who fights best during that particular one-month season of rut.  Winner takes all.

Your towel-boy CEO is usually in his 50s by the time he reaches that apex, and so is his mate.  For purposes of reproduction, her useful days are over.  While sex may be on your CEO's mind, he rarely wants a harem of pregnant women following him around with their hands out for child support.  Purely in terms of mating strategies, the ignorant, non-condom-using 18-year old quarterback cutting a rut-path through the sophomore class is much more likely to pass his genes along than the 57-year-old CEO.


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## NoGoal (Jan 23, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> In nature, mating strategies rarely look to the long-term.  The moose with the harem is not the one who is likely to live the longest, or to become wisest; he is the one who fights best during that particular one-month season of rut.  Winner takes all.
> 
> Your towel-boy CEO is usually in his 50s by the time he reaches that apex, and so is his mate.  For purposes of reproduction, her useful days are over.  While sex may be on your CEO's mind, he rarely wants a harem of pregnant women following him around with their hands out for child support.  Purely in terms of mating strategies, the ignorant, non-condom-using 18-year old quarterback cutting a rut-path through the sophomore class is much more likely to pass his genes along than the 57-year-old CEO.


I agree purely based on animal instincts with limited intelligence, but we are talking about humans.   There are many females and males for that matter, who look at intelligence when selecting a mate (marriage) and having children with.  As humans we are all aware, it's not the biggest and strongest gene that achieves the highest annual income.  As for your CEO being 57, there are exceptions....especially, in the tech industry where young entrepreneurs become millionaires and billionaires overnight.

MJ has the highest net worth for a sports athlete at 1 billion, but Bill Gates net worth is 90 billion.


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## NoGoal (Jan 23, 2017)

espola said:


> Examples - the head of USSF and the head of NFL.


Or how about the male college cheerleader who went on to became President GW Bush.


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## Daniel Miller (Jan 23, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> I agree purely based on animal instincts with limited intelligence, but we are talking about humans.   There are many females and males for that matter, who look at intelligence when selecting a mate (marriage) and having children with.  As humans we are all aware, it's not the biggest and strongest gene that achieves the highest annual income.  As for your CEO being 57, there are exceptions....especially, in the tech industry where young entrepreneurs become millionaires and billionaires overnight.
> 
> MJ has the highest net worth for a sports athlete at 1 billion, but Bill Gates net worth is 90 billion.


Bill Gates has 3 children.  Give him a C+ in the gene-pool power rankings.
Michael Jordan has 5 children.  Give him a B+.

What does an A+ look like?
Terry Turnage has 23 children with 17 different women.
Richard M. Colbert has 25 children with 18 women.
Desmond Hatchett takes the record with 30 children with 11 women.

None of these guys have two nickels to rub together.  All were high school quarterbacks.*

*  I might have made up that last part.


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## Daniel Miller (Jan 23, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> Or how about the male college cheerleader who went on to became President GW Bush.


Two kids.  Barely kept his genetic line going.  Assuming they are both his.


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## espola (Jan 23, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> Two kids.  Barely kept his genetic line going.  Assuming they are both his.


Since they are both girls, the genetic lineage is easier to trace.


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## espola (Jan 23, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> Or how about the male college cheerleader who went on to became President GW Bush.


Cheerleading is a recognized varsity sport.


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## Daniel Miller (Jan 23, 2017)

NoGoal said:


> There are many females and males for that matter, who look at intelligence when selecting a mate (marriage) and having children with.  I don't say you're wrong.  But in the main, most people give lip-service to mate-selection on the basis of intelligence, but actually choose based on desire.  Who stares at a woman's shapely brain.
> 
> As humans we are all aware, it's not the biggest and strongest gene that achieves the highest annual income.  Yes, we are aware.  But "income" is as abstract economic theory which developed millions and millions of years after our base biological impulses.  I will go with biology on this, and say that both men and women still choose based on their vital urge.
> 
> As for your CEO being 57, there are exceptions....especially, in the tech industry where young entrepreneurs become millionaires and billionaires overnight.  True.  But that is the exception.  There are more exceptions in terms of females who climb the ladder, and by the time they get to the top they are too old to reproduce.


There are many females and males for that matter, who look at intelligence when selecting a mate (marriage) and having children with.  I don't say you're wrong.  But in the main, most people give lip-service to mate-selection on the basis of intelligence, but actually choose based on desire.  Who stares at a woman's shapely brain.

As humans we are all aware, it's not the biggest and strongest gene that achieves the highest annual income.  Yes, we are aware.  But "income" is as abstract economic theory which developed millions and millions of years after our base biological impulses.  I will go with biology on this, and say that both men and women still choose based on their vital urge.

As for your CEO being 57, there are exceptions....especially, in the tech industry where young entrepreneurs become millionaires and billionaires overnight.  True.  But that is the exception.  There are more exceptions in terms of females who climb the ladder, and by the time they get to the top they are too old to reproduce.


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## TangoCity (Jan 23, 2017)

Another thread that started out soccer related that I can now ignore, lol.


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## NoGoal (Jan 23, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> I don't say you're wrong.  But in the main, most people give lip-service to mate-selection on the basis of intelligence, but actually choose based on desire.  Who stares at a woman's shapely brain.
> 
> Yes, we are aware.  But "income" is as abstract economic theory which developed millions and millions of years after our base biological impulses.  I will go with biology on this, and say that both men and women still choose based on their vital urge.



As humans have evolved and females no longer dependent on a male who to keep me safe in the caves.  Humans male or female this day and age, weigh their mating selection more so on facial attraction, intelligence, education and income.  These factors (except looks) dictate, if the individual can provide for a families needs.


Daniel Miller said:


> I
> True.  But that is the exception.  There are more exceptions in terms of females who climb the ladder, and by the time they get to the top they are too old to reproduce.


. Males can reproduce well into their 60's with a little help from Viagra.

Thanks for the discussion!


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## f1nfutbol fan (Jan 23, 2017)

wow, way to stay on topic guys.


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## NoGoal (Jan 23, 2017)

To bring it back on subject.  I agree with Daniel Miller, every player can improve their gait and running form for soccer. There is straight line sprinting in soccer, running down an attacker or beating an attacker down the wing.

It's why Cristiano Ronaldo trained with Usain Bolt.


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## MWN (Jan 23, 2017)

espola said:


> Cheerleading is a recognized varsity sport.


Technically its "Competition Cheer" that will now be recognized as a CIF Sport for 17/18, which means the CIF will push the US Dept of Education to give "competition cheer" teams Title IX recognition.  Sideline cheer, which is what most associate with cheerleading, is not and remains what it always has been.


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## outside! (Jan 23, 2017)

MWN said:


> Technically its "Competition Cheer" that will now be recognized as a CIF Sport for 17/18, which means the CIF will push the US Dept of Education to give "competition cheer" teams Title IX recognition.


Wow, CIF is actually concerned about Title IX? You could have fooled me.


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## MWN (Jan 23, 2017)

outside! said:


> Wow, CIF is actually concerned about Title IX? You could have fooled me.


CIF should be concerned.  Title IX applies to both HS and College.  That said, compliance could be better.  See: http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2011/02/16/title-ix-enforcement-could-devastate-high-school-sports


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## MWN (Jan 23, 2017)

MWN said:


> CIF should be concerned and the legislation passed in California requires CIF to advocate with the NCAA, etc.  Title IX applies to both HS and College.  Compliance could be better.  See: http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2011/02/16/title-ix-enforcement-could-devastate-high-school-sports


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## espola (Jan 23, 2017)

outside! said:


> Wow, CIF is actually concerned about Title IX? You could have fooled me.


Why do you say that?


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## outside! (Jan 23, 2017)

espola said:


> Why do you say that?


For males, football has the largest number of student athletes. For females, the largest participation sport is soccer. Male football players and female soccer players are not given the same resources and opportunities by CIF (or some schools for that matter).


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## MWN (Jan 23, 2017)

outside! said:


> For males, football has the largest number of student athletes. For females, the largest participation sport is soccer. Male football players and female soccer players are not given the same resources and opportunities by CIF (or some schools for that matter).


Title IX doesn't require the same opportunities.  Rather, it prohibits school sponsored discrimination.  In most HS and Colleges, one sport rules ... Football.  The second sports behind football is football.  The third is probably basketball.  Then soccer, water polo, cross-country, etc.  Title IX simply requires schools to provide an equal number of athletic opportunities (or at least that is how its been interpreted).  Because football is so popular and basically a boys sport, schools tend to promote other girls sports to balance out the fact that their dollars are going to football.  This means that the other boys sports have less support and tend to get killed.  In high schools you will find girls volleyball, but no boys volleyball teams because ... football and Title IX.  

There is a perceived inequity between football and other sports.  This is not because of school sponsored discrimination, rather, football is actually a profit center, whereas most other sports are not (basketball often an exception).  Football is the one sport that has programs with advertisers, boosters that raise tens of thousand of dollars, and stands filled with hundreds of students and parents (in some cases thousands).  The same argument exists between the Men's and Woman's US Soccer teams.  Men are paid more because the men generate more money in advertiser and ticket sales.

With regard to the CIF, they actually have initiatives directed at informing the member schools and parents of the various equality programs: http://www.cifstate.org/governance/equity/index


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## espola (Jan 24, 2017)

outside! said:


> For males, football has the largest number of student athletes. For females, the largest participation sport is soccer. Male football players and female soccer players are not given the same resources and opportunities by CIF (or some schools for that matter).


At CIF level, girls are allowed to try out for football and sometimes make the team, usually as kickers.  Most larger schools around here also have girls-only sports (although that has been tested) like field hockey.


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## soccermama213 (Jan 27, 2017)

my dd runs the 400 and 4x400 - she told her track coach club soccer comes first and she had to miss CIF for National cup. However she had a blast!


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## JJP (Jan 30, 2017)

Daniel Miller said:


> While sex may be on your CEO's mind, he rarely wants a *harem of pregnant women following him around with their hands out for child support.*  Purely in terms of mating strategies, the ignorant, *non-condom-using 18-year old quarterback cutting a rut-path through the sophomore class* is much more likely to pass his genes along than the 57-year-old CEO.


What the hell . . . . rut-path?  Lololol


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## Lambchop (Jan 30, 2017)

MWN said:


> Title IX doesn't require the same opportunities.  Rather, it prohibits school sponsored discrimination.  In most HS and Colleges, one sport rules ... Football.  The second sports behind football is football.  The third is probably basketball.  Then soccer, water polo, cross-country, etc.  Title IX simply requires schools to provide an equal number of athletic opportunities (or at least that is how its been interpreted).  Because football is so popular and basically a boys sport, schools tend to promote other girls sports to balance out the fact that their dollars are going to football.  This means that the other boys sports have less support and tend to get killed.  In high schools you will find girls volleyball, but no boys volleyball teams because ... football and Title IX.
> 
> There is a perceived inequity between football and other sports.  This is not because of school sponsored discrimination, rather, football is actually a profit center, whereas most other sports are not (basketball often an exception).  Football is the one sport that has programs with advertisers, boosters that raise tens of thousand of dollars, and stands filled with hundreds of students and parents (in some cases thousands).  The same argument exists between the Men's and Woman's US Soccer teams.  Men are paid more because the men generate more money in advertiser and ticket sales.
> 
> With regard to the CIF, they actually have initiatives directed at informing the member schools and parents of the various equality programs: http://www.cifstate.org/governance/equity/index


Actually, I don't know what high school you are referring to, but there is boys volleyball at all our local high schools.  Second,  US Women's Soccer earned more money then the US Men's Soccer last year.


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## JJP (Jan 30, 2017)

Lambchop said:


> US Women's Soccer earned more money then the US Men's Soccer last year.


This can't be right.  I can't think of a single women's team sport that makes anywhere close to the amount of money as the equivalent male team sport.


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## outside! (Jan 30, 2017)

JJP said:


> This can't be right.  I can't think of a single women's team sport that makes anywhere close to the amount of money as the equivalent male team sport.


He should have said US WNT earned more money than the US MNT.


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## JJP (Jan 30, 2017)

outside! said:


> He should have said US WNT earned more money than the US MNT.


I don't have any figures in front of me, but this could only be possible during a woman's World Cup year when the men's team doesn't have any major international tournaments to provide an income boost for that year.

Men's World Cup generates so much money that if you take each team's World Cup take and divide it by four, to annualize the income, the men's team has to make much, much more than the women's team per annum.

Sports is eat what you kill business.  The women's team has won more games, but that just entitles them to a bigger slice of a much, much, much smaller pie.

If the women's team wants to be paid like the men's team, they have to start generating TV revenue like the men.


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