# Please take concussions seriously



## Surfref (Oct 17, 2016)

I have had two players recently diagnosed with concussions. In both cases there were no initial symptoms other than a mild headache which most people would think was normal for what happened.  The symptoms worsened over the next 12-48 hours.  Back story.  Four weeks ago a female U18 player got drilled with the ball in the face hard enough to knock her backwards and bounce her head off the turf.  Coach came on and took her off the field.  She was dazzed and needed help walking off.  She was on the field at the start of the second half.  I asked her how she was feeling and she said she had a “bad headache.”  I asked the coach why she was on the field and had he followed the recommended head injury protocol, which he replied yes and that she was fine.  I blew the whistle for the kick off and immediately blew the whistle to stop play and called the coach on to tend to his player with the bad headache.  Yes, he was pissed off at me.  We went through this routine two times before he finally subbed her out and kept her out the remainder of the game.  After the game the father came over and yelled at me saying he knows his DD and she was fine.  I refereed that same team again yesterday.  The father apologized to me, because his daughter developed some serious concussion symptoms 12-48 hours after the game, they took her to the ER and a specialist told her no soccer or physical activity for 6 weeks and to keep her out of school for at least two weeks with weekly reevaluations.

Last Friday in a college game my DD got leveled by a defender, flew about 5 feet and bounced her head off the turf.  No call or card from the old ass can’t run anymore referee that was at least 40 yards out of position, that him and I will talk about the next time I see him.  She initially passed the concussion exam and matched her baseline test that the trainer administered.  She did have a mild headache so the coach and trainer decided to keep her out for the remainder of the game.  3-5 hours after the game she started to develop sensitivity to light and sound and said she felt hazy.  ER visit Friday night resulted in a diagnoses of concussion which was verified by the specialist today.  She was told no physical activity for two weeks and no school for a week with a follow up evaluation next Monday. I am glad the coach and trainer kept her out of that game and avoided the more serious and possibly deadly second concussion.

So when your kid bounces their head off the ground, knocks heads with another player, gets hit in the face or side of the head by the ball, elbowed in the head, take it seriously and get them checked out by a medical professional before you let them play soccer again.  Very few coaches have the medical training to properly diagnose your kid, but many coaches will not hesitate to put them back in the game because they think your kid can help them win.  Your kid’s health is far more important than who wins a youth soccer game.


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## etc1217 (Oct 17, 2016)

My DD had a concussion and was out for about two weeks from school but didn't quite feel herself til about 4 weeks after getting the concussion.  So it is very serious and shouldn't be taken lightly.  It is very scary for the player and the parents.

We, as parents, made her wear headgear for the longest not sure if it really protects anything but may soften the initial blow, and made us feel she was protecting herself in some way. She no longer wears it because no one else on the team does. It's very sad that the only thing that is protected are her shins....


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## bruinblue14 (Oct 17, 2016)

My 05 DD got her first this past sunday. She got back up fine, no tears, but coach made her sit. Other than a minor headache, no symptoms until 2 hours later. Dizziness, fatigue, nausea, ringing in ears. Doc today said no sports pending weekly evals. So scary, but i'll admit i didn't think it was that big of a deal because she got up quickly and didn't have any bumps or bruising. The ref didn't seem to do anything special, just let her get back up and continue.


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## Surfref (Oct 20, 2016)

bruinblue14 said:


> ....... So scary, but i'll admit i didn't think it was that big of a deal because she got up quickly and didn't have any bumps or bruising. The ref didn't seem to do anything special, just let her get back up and continue.


That was sort of my point.  Since there are no initial severe symptoms many coaches and parents think there is nothing wrong.  Most referees I have worked with and seen throughout So Cal have no clue what the head injury/concussion protocols are or the symptoms of a concussion.  Until US Soccer and Cal South adopt the same concussion protocols as college and high school, club coaches will continue to put kids back in the game that have sustained a head injury/concussion.  I truly hope it does not take Cal South, ref associations, or clubs getting sued because a player suffered a head injury and was allowed to continue playing than got a second head injury that left them disabled or dead.


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## Surfref (Oct 20, 2016)

My DD and I got to see the game video and play that resulted in her concussion.  She flew 5-6 feet through the air after the defender pushed her.  The referee was at least 35 yards away and made no effort to go check on my DD until the AR frantically called him over.  He initially would not let the trainers on the field.  I am so pissed off at the referee.  I know him and actually said to my wife before the game started that he was not qualified to be in the center for the game.  Not that he cannot recognize fouls, but that he is not physically able to keep up with play on any game above U12.  He was out of position and 35 or more yards away from play 80 percent of the game.

I blame the referee for taking a game that he is not physically qualified to work.  I also blame the college assigner for not knowing the ability of their referees and putting the wrong referee in the center.  I will more than likely see this referee during the referee assoc meeting next week.  My DD told me not to get arrested when I talk to him.


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## ocref (Oct 22, 2016)

with the video can't you submit it to the assignor or better yet the conference? Seems to me the assignor is just as much at fault as the referee. The assignor system at the CalSouth level is borderline corrupt with minimal accountability. Even at the college level you should have recourse as a parent. Why not contact the conference ... You have every right to be pissed.


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## espola (Oct 23, 2016)

ocref said:


> with the video can't you submit it to the assignor or better yet the conference? Seems to me the assignor is just as much at fault as the referee. The assignor system at the CalSouth level is borderline corrupt with minimal accountability. Even at the college level you should have recourse as a parent. Why not contact the conference ... You have every right to be pissed.


When my son started playing college soccer, I expected that the referees would be discernibly better than the club and high school referees.  I learned that while they are generally more fit and perhaps younger (or just appear to be because the are more fit), wear  different patch on their shirts, and they are very good at the game formalities, but otherwise they make mistakes in pretty much the same way and at pretty much the same rate as the best high school referees.  

Last night I watched a rare treat - a fullup network broadcast of a college men's soccer game, this being the 0-0 game with Cal Poly at UCSB on Fox Sports West.  During the game, the commentators were keeping a running tally of yellow cards that should have been issued and fouls in the penalty area that were not called.  None of us were particularly surprised.


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## Surfref (Oct 24, 2016)

ocref said:


> with the video can't you submit it to the assignor or better yet the conference? Seems to me the assignor is just as much at fault as the referee. The assignor system at the CalSouth level is borderline corrupt with minimal accountability. Even at the college level you should have recourse as a parent. Why not contact the conference ... You have every right to be pissed.


My DD said the college coach has submitted a complaint on two referees with video and requested they not be assigned to their games.


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## etc1217 (Oct 24, 2016)

Our goalie hit the post trying to clear a ball this weekend. She'll be out for a few weeks. She had most of the symptoms immediately. My DD who plays back line heard her knock her head so she hit it pretty hard.  When will it become a mandatory rule at least for goalies to wear so type of head gear.. they get beat up the most between hitting the post or getting kick in the head by a player.  Very scary!


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## Mystery Train (Oct 24, 2016)

etc1217 said:


> Our goalie hit the post trying to clear a ball this weekend. She'll be out for a few weeks. She had most of the symptoms immediately. My DD who plays back line heard her knock her head so she hit it pretty hard.  When will it become a mandatory rule at least for goalies to wear so type of head gear.. they get beat up the most between hitting the post or getting kick in the head by a player.  Very scary!


When my kid first started playing full time keeper, I wanted to buy her a full-on lacrosse helmet!  But (not to jinx it, hopefully) head injuries haven't been an issue in the years since, and the more I watch other keepers, I notice that head injuries are much more common with field players than keepers.  My thoughts:  #1. While keepers are involved in lots of collisions, they are usually initiating the contact and see it coming.  All the action is coming in from in front of them.  Field players get blindsided all the time.  Getting drilled when you don't expect it generates that neck-snap that causes concussions.   #2. Keepers spend hours practicing hitting the ground and go down on purpose.  They learn how to fall and roll, and their neck muscles get a constant work out as a result.  Field players get knocked to the ground unexpectedly.  When they fall, they are falling off balance and usually travelling at speeds keepers never get up to.  This means head to ground contact in the worst way. 

The posts worry me and so does getting an errant kick when she's on the ground, but my kid's keeper coach drilled the proper technique for diving into a challenge and the rules for diving near post so that she would lessen the chances of hitting the post or getting kicked in the head.   All of these things I think add up to there being fewer keeper concussions than field player concussions. 

 But thanks @Surfref for reminding everyone that concussions may not be immediately obvious and all head injuries require constant evaluation over at least 24 hours, and if dizziness or nausea are present, get to a medical professional immediately.  Hope your daughter recovers fully and swiftly!


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## pewpew (Oct 28, 2016)

I don't normally frequent this sub-forum but since I'm here I'll add my .02
My 9yr old son's rec team had a teammate take a pretty good hit recently during a game. Rang his bell for sure. Took a second to get up. Both coaches  looked him over. Teenage ref was standing there too. I started to walk out onto the field to see if I could assist. I have my EMT so I took it upon  myself to assist. Before I could get to where they were, they picked him up and had him walk off the field. Second half he was back in the game. I couldn't believe it. There's another dad on the team that helps at practice. I pulled him aside after the game and told him he needs to prod the coaches to follow concussion protocol, and to let the mom know she should consider taking him at least to urgent care since it was the weekend. Also reminded him of the signs/symptoms to watch for and pass on to mom. I missed both practices the following week due to work but I'm guessing the boy was ok. But with the blow he took I would've at minimum made my own kid sit the rest of the day with close monitoring and most likely a quick trip to urgent care.
My daughter is an 03 full-time GK. I'm always worried about the hits and kicks she's taken. She used to wear a mouthpiece but as her communication skills improved she said it was harder to deal with.  I've since found a brand called SISU. It's really thin and easy to mold. I'm considering having her go back to wearing one, or at least trying it and seeing if she can play and talk while wearing it. Basketball and football players wear them while running and playing though they get slightly different lulls in the action, but I don't see why soccer players couldn't or wouldn't consider it. I've seen a few pro GKs in the EPL wearing them.
With the hits that motorcross racers take..many pros use mouthpieces. I talked to one guy who said it lessens the chance of a concussion if taking a blow to the head. I wear one when I ride. It calms me down a bit when I'm chewing on it and hanging on for dear life!!  Haha lol 
Best wishes for a speedy recovery to anyone with a kid healing up from one of these. Take the time to heal right. It's just not worth it long-term IMHO to rush it.


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## Just a Parent (Oct 28, 2016)

espola said:


> When my son started playing college soccer, I expected that the referees would be discernibly better than the club and high school referees.  I learned that while they are generally more fit and perhaps younger (or just appear to be because the are more fit), wear  different patch on their shirts, and they are very good at the game formalities, but otherwise they make mistakes in pretty much the same way and at pretty much the same rate as the best high school referees.
> 
> Last night I watched a rare treat - a fullup network broadcast of a college men's soccer game, this being the 0-0 game with Cal Poly at UCSB on Fox Sports West.  During the game, the commentators were keeping a running tally of yellow cards that should have been issued and fouls in the penalty area that were not called.  None of us were particularly surprised.


Who told you they're not the same referees who do youth games? 

How would you know they made any mistakes?


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## Mystery Train (Oct 29, 2016)

Mystery Train said:


> But (not to jinx it, hopefully) head injuries haven't been an issue in the years since,


Doh!  I knew I was tempting the soccer gods with that post.  Had to take my DD out of the game today after she took a kick to the head.  Doesn't seem like concussion symptoms, but her head was aching, so coach and I played it safe.  Will be monitoring her closely per all the good advice here.  It was great that all the parents, coaches (both sides) and refs showed so much concern and understood the need to put safety first.


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## soccermama213 (Nov 17, 2016)

My15 yo dd had a concussion last year - was hit my another head on a corner kick. Felt weird and was out rest of game. Most Drs wont confirm a diagnosis of concussion same day off just headache but if your child has other symptoms or headache stays into the next day - its most likely is one. My dd took 6 weeks to recover. She had a weird headache for most of that time. She ended up getting hit in the face her first week back so took off another month. I was thankful because both her club and HS coach kept her out of all corner kicks for many months afterward and my daughter didn't head the ball for about 6 months afterward. She just recently started to occasionally a year later. She is a forward and thankfully, doesn't have as many heading situation as mids and defenders do. I have had one myself and its hard to describe the way you feel. I agree to please take it seriously with your child. My dd is about to start HS games and I worry more there.


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## MWN (May 2, 2018)

I just did some research on the issue:
http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/concussion-management-science-and-omega-3s.14995/


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## umeweall (May 2, 2018)

etc1217 said:


> My DD had a concussion and was out for about two weeks from school but didn't quite feel herself til about 4 weeks after getting the concussion.  So it is very serious and shouldn't be taken lightly.  It is very scary for the player and the parents.
> 
> We, as parents, made her wear headgear for the longest not sure if it really protects anything but may soften the initial blow, and made us feel she was protecting herself in some way. She no longer wears it because no one else on the team does. It's very sad that the only thing that is protected are her shins....


Your concern is understandable, but headgear will not resolve the potential of a concussion.  The most that headgear can do is a very slight reduction in force, help in preventing contusions and cuts.  One thing that medical researchers are concerned about is the 'superman effect' that headgear can give a player.  This could cause a player to play 'harder', as they feel the headgear protects them.  There is also the reality that a hard hit to the body, which 'rattles' the brain, causing it to either shear, or bounce of the interior of the skull, can also cause a concussion, without the headgear being involved.  This is an 'acceleration' hit factor.  You can read about acceleration hits, and their effect on the body, on my site:   *http://www.yatahoy.com/sample-page/linear-rotational-angular-acceleration-hits/ *

I also have loads of information on headgear:   *http://www.yatahoy.com/sample-page/soccer-headgear/ * 

You need to make sure that you fully understand concussion symptoms/signs, and that your coach is following proper concussion protocols.  This is in the safety interests of your child.  Forget about what the coach wants, or winning the game with your player remaining in.  When a concussion type situation arises, they should sit out, for safety.  Concussions issues sometime do not immediately surface, but may surface later that day, that night, or the next day.  Pay attention.

Understand that a concussion is nothing to trifle with and an improperly treated brain, receiving a second concussion added to the first one, can cause recovery time to be longer, and serious issues from a player.  There is a conditions termed 'Second Impact Syndrome', which can cause death, which can happen quickly.  For information on 'Second Impact Syndrome', you can check my info:  *http://www.yatahoy.com/sample-page/consequences-playing-concussion/*


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## umeweall (May 2, 2018)

Surfref said:


> That was sort of my point.  Since there are no initial severe symptoms many coaches and parents think there is nothing wrong.  Most referees I have worked with and seen throughout So Cal have no clue what the head injury/concussion protocols are or the symptoms of a concussion.  Until US Soccer and Cal South adopt the same concussion protocols as college and high school, club coaches will continue to put kids back in the game that have sustained a head injury/concussion.  I truly hope it does not take Cal South, ref associations, or clubs getting sued because a player suffered a head injury and was allowed to continue playing than got a second head injury that left them disabled or dead.


It does not matter what any coach thinks/states, or what club/association/league a player is playing in, if they are playing in California.  *California Assembly Bill 2007*, which covers players aged 17 and younger, was made into *STATE LAW *.  It specifically states, as a requirement, that any player suspected of a discussion is to be removed from play, and may not return to play until they have been examined by a certified athletic trainer, or a licensed medical doctor, trained in TBI's (traumatic brain injuries).  They referee controls this.

*This bill states:*

*AB 2007*, as introduced, McCarty. Youth athletics: youth sports organizations: concussions or head injuries.

Existing law requires a school district, charter school, or private school, if it offers an athletic program, to immediately remove an athlete from an athletic activity for the remainder of the day if the athlete is suspected of sustaining a concussion or head injury, and prohibits the athlete from returning to the athletic activity until the athlete is evaluated by a licensed health care provider, trained in the management of concussions, and acting within the scope of his or her practice, and the athlete receives written clearance from the licensed health care provider to return to the athletic activity. Existing law also requires, on a yearly basis, a concussion and head injury information sheet to be signed and returned by the athlete and athlete’s parent or guardian before the athlete’s initiating practice or competition.

This bill would additionally apply these provisions to athletes participating in youth sports organizations, as defined.

Vote: majority. Appropriation: no. Fiscal committee: no. State-mandated local program: no. 

The people of the State of California do enact as follows:

P2  1  SECTION 1. 

  Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 124235) 
2  is added to Chapter 4 of Part 2 of Division 106 of the Health and 
3  Safety Code, to read:

4 

*5  Article 2.5.  Youth Sports Concussion Protocols*
6

  7  124235.

*  (a)  A youth sports organization that elects to offer an 
8  athletic program shall comply with both of the following:*
9  (1) An athlete who is suspected of sustaining a concussion or 
10  head injury in an athletic activity shall be immediately removed 
11  from the athletic activity for the remainder of the day, and shall 
12  not be permitted to return to the athletic activity until he or she is 
13  evaluated by a licensed health care provider. The athlete shall not 
14  be permitted to return to the athletic activity until he or she receives 
15  written clearance to return to the athletic activity from a licensed 
16  health care provider. If the licensed health care provider determines 
17  that the athlete sustained a concussion or a head injury, the athlete 
18  shall also complete a graduated return-to-play protocol of no less 
19  than seven days in duration under the supervision of a licensed 
20  health care provider.


As to who has to abide by this state law, that is simple--EVERYONE

30  (2) “Youth sports organization” means an organization that 
31  sponsors or conducts athletic competitions, camps, or clubs in
32  which persons 17 years of age or younger participate.


So simply put, if a referee keeps a player out of a game, because they suspect that a player might have a concussion, they have the State of California on their site.  A coach that returns a player to play, who was potentially involved in a concussion situation, is potentially breaking state law.


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## espola (May 2, 2018)

umeweall said:


> It does not matter what any coach thinks/states, or what club/association/league a player is playing in, if they are playing in California.  *California Assembly Bill 2007*, which covers players aged 17 and younger, was made into *STATE LAW *.  It specifically states, as a requirement, that any player suspected of a discussion is to be removed from play, and may not return to play until they have been examined by a certified athletic trainer, or a licensed medical doctor, trained in TBI's (traumatic brain injuries).  They referee controls this.


I have often seen referees caution players who attempted a discussion.


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## umeweall (May 2, 2018)

espola said:


> I have often seen referees caution players who attempted a discussion.


There is another item in play, the US Soccer Concussion Protocol, which is included in the US Soccer, Player Development Initiative, which all leagues affiliated with US Soccer were supposed to put into effect in August, of 2017.  The Concussion Protocol states:


" *Any coach or parent insisting on returning the player to the game without approved clearance with result in the referee  ending the game "*

Any game being played under the US Soccer, PDI rules is subject to the above.  This is to prevent the referee from being placed into the middle of determining the health of the player.  Some one insists on the player returning, the game is terminated, case closed, and it becomes an issue between the club/league/association and the coach. 

The PDI covers *4v4*, *6v6*, *7v7,* and *9v9* age groups.


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## umeweall (May 2, 2018)

BTW, from what I have seen, there exists a fundamental problem in the referee vs concussion handling scenario.  There has been basically a lack of training/education given to referees.  This includes for handling player issues, and for handling any issue that may arise with the referee crew.  The center referee is in the highest level, for potential concussion happenings.  They could get hit by a hard kicked ball, or accidentally hit by a fast moving player and knocked to the ground.  The AR can get hit by the ball, trip over a hole/spectator.  If a member of the crew was to be placed in a concussion related scenario, what is done?  Do they sit out?  What does the crew do, in regards to the member of their crew that was involved in the incident?  Does a report have to be made?  Often referees are just dropped off.  If the referee was knocked out, what is to be done (bear in mind that with no parent there, there is no medical consent).  What does the crew do?


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## MWN (May 2, 2018)

In order to obtain and maintain your Referee license (Grade 9+) you have to take an online concussion module and answer questions correctly.  Coaches must also take the same modules.

While its the Responsibility of the referee to stop the game and allow the player to be evaluated, it is not the responsibility of the Referee to check whether the player was cleared to play ... that rests on the Youth Sports Organization (Cal South, the League, the Clubs, the Tournament, etc.) under the new law.  Referee's must notate on their game report serious injuries, including concussions.

My belief is you will see the better clubs/leagues begin to play their games only at large facilities because the economics are there to bring in trained Athletic Trainers and EMTs to conduct an initial quasi-medically trained concussion diagnoses, which will insulate the Youth Sports Organization from liability under the new law.


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## Surfref (May 2, 2018)

umeweall said:


> BTW, from what I have seen, there exists a fundamental problem in the referee vs concussion handling scenario.  There has been basically a lack of training/education given to referees.  This includes for handling player issues, and for handling any issue that may arise with the referee crew.  The center referee is in the highest level, for potential concussion happenings.  They could get hit by a hard kicked ball, or accidentally hit by a fast moving player and knocked to the ground.  The AR can get hit by the ball, trip over a hole/spectator.  If a member of the crew was to be placed in a concussion related scenario, what is done?  Do they sit out?  What does the crew do, in regards to the member of their crew that was involved in the incident?  Does a report have to be made?  Often referees are just dropped off.  If the referee was knocked out, what is to be done (bear in mind that with no parent there, there is no medical consent).  What does the crew do?


Your statement, "There has been basically a lack of training/education given to referees," is total BS.  Beginning four years ago referees began receiving training on concussion/head injuries and how to handle (protocols) a possible concussion.  I have had three sessions of training on head injuries plus two online CDC and US Soccer trainings in the past year. The majority of referees are far more educated on concussion symptoms and the protocols than most coaches or parents.


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## umeweall (May 2, 2018)

Surfref said:


> Your statement, "There has been basically a lack of training/education given to referees," is total BS.  Beginning four years ago referees began receiving training on concussion/head injuries and how to handle (protocols) a possible concussion.  I have had three sessions of training on head injuries plus two online CDC and US Soccer trainings in the past year. The majority of referees are far more educated on concussion symptoms and the protocols than most coaches or parents.


Glad to hear that you live in a progressive environment.  This is not necessarily the same in all areas, for youth referees.


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## MWN (May 2, 2018)

umeweall said:


> Glad to hear that you live in a progressive environment.  This is not necessarily the same in all areas, for youth referees.


All youth and adult referees in the United States that are licensed by the USSF, must go through concussion training every year. What do you mean by "other areas"?


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## umeweall (May 2, 2018)

MWN said:


> All youth and adult referees in the United States that are licensed by the USSF, must go through concussion training every year. What do you mean by "other areas"?


I am fully aware of concussion training required for getting the license.  It is quick and basic, like the CDC course for coaches, and the course given to high school coaches through NFHS.  By 'other areas', I am referring to any area outside of the area in which you normally do games in, which also applies to my comment, which refers to the areas that I frequently see.


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## umeweall (May 2, 2018)

Let me clarify something.  I am speaking of 'reinforcement' training, not the basic on-line course taken to get the license.  I am speaking of additional training, based on classroom question and answers.


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## Surfref (May 3, 2018)

umeweall said:


> Let me clarify something.  I am speaking of 'reinforcement' training, not the basic on-line course taken to get the license.  I am speaking of additional training, based on classroom question and answers.


We are required to complete the online training along with classroom training to referee any Cal South or USSF sanctioned game, High School game and College game.  Unless you are referring to pickup games which normally do not have referees, any referee that has a USSF, NFHS or NISOA (college) badge will have gone through the online training and at least one classroom session per badge per year.  Last year I completed two online trainings and four classroom trainings on concussions and head injuries with the classroom sessions lasting 60-90 minutes.  That is far more training than club coaches receive and a hell of a lot more than the majority of parents receive.


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