# USWNT Olympic roster announced



## Soccer43 (Jun 23, 2021)

No surprises on the roster, best of luck luck to the team.  They definitely have experience on their side

Wondering what those younger players that dropped out of college to pursue their pro and full team dreams are thinking this morning.

*U.S. Olympic roster

Goalkeepers*: Adrianna Franch (Portland Thorns), Alyssa Naeher (Chicago Red Stars).


*Defenders*: Abby Dahlkemper (Manchester City), Tierna Davidson (Chicago), Crystal Dunn (Portland), Kelley O’Hara (Washington Spirit), Becky Sauerbrunn (Portland), Emily Sonnett (Washington).


*Midfielders*: Julie Ertz (Chicago), Lindsey Horan (Portland), Rose Lavelle (OL Reign), Kristie Mewis (Houston Dash), Sam Mewis (North Carolina Courage

*Forwards*: Tobin Heath (Manchester United), Carli Lloyd (Gotham FC), Alex Morgan (Orlando Pride), Christen Press (Manchester United), Megan Rapinoe (OL Reign).


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## Giesbock (Jun 23, 2021)

Must sting a little for the young up and coming players who feature so prominently in US Soccer’s social media and advertising. Shades of having your likeness used to gin up support from a fresh fan base but not being included in the main event.


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## Giesbock (Jun 23, 2021)

No Macario, midge, Lynn Williams, Sophia Smith… hmm


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## Carlsbad7 (Jun 23, 2021)

Is every player on the USWNT coming from a pro team? 

Kinda blows a giant hole in the old DA pathway to the USWNT marketing.

Seems like the way to be on the USWNT is to kick ass in college and continue kicking ass on a pro team.


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## Kicker4Life (Jun 23, 2021)

The ONLY thing I can think of is they are giving the “veteran” players the chance to become the 1st Team to win the WC and Olympics in the same cycle and one last hoorah as 4 of the 5 forwards will likely age out.  

I saw nothing impressive from Morgan or Rapinoe that would warrant them making the team, but I’m also not watching training to see what may be behind the scenes.


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## Kicker4Life (Jun 23, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Is every player on the USWNT coming from a pro team?
> 
> Kinda blows a giant hole in the old DA pathway to the USWNT marketing.
> 
> Seems like the way to be on the USWNT is to kick ass in college and continue kicking ass on a pro team.


There is no such League that is a “pathway” to anything. It’s all just a marketing handle.


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## Carlsbad7 (Jun 23, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> There is no such League that is a “pathway” to anything. It’s all just a marketing handle.


Agree 1000% just highlighting how dumb the whole pathway to XYZ marketing ploy is. It's designed to play on patents fear that if they dont throw a bunch of $$$ at them your kid wont get on some team and the sky will fall and the oceans will boil.


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## SoccerLocker (Jun 23, 2021)

Giesbock said:


> Must sting a little for the young up and coming players who feature so prominently in US Soccer’s social media and advertising. Shades of having your likeness used to gin up support from a fresh fan base but not being included in the main event.


When you can only take 18 players, you don't see much rolling of the dice.  Excited for Kristie Mewis, she worked her way back from injury to finally crack the 1st team.  Macario and Williams were named as alternates.

Loved the Ted Lasso announcement:

Ted Lasso announces Olympic Team


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## dad4 (Jun 23, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Is every player on the USWNT coming from a pro team?
> 
> Kinda blows a giant hole in the old DA pathway to the USWNT marketing.
> 
> Seems like the way to be on the USWNT is to kick ass in college and continue kicking ass on a pro team.


Seems like the way to be on the WNT is to have been on WNT five years ago.


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## dad4 (Jun 23, 2021)

It makes sense if you think about it.  They can present the lifetime achievement awards right after the bronze medal game.


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## ToonArmy (Jun 23, 2021)

Aren't the Olympic soccer teams some sort of youth team I think u23?


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## El Clasico (Jun 23, 2021)

ToonArmy said:


> Aren't the Olympic soccer teams some sort of youth team I think u23?


The USWNT is a lot of things, but youth ain't one of them.


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## what-happened (Jun 23, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> There is no such League that is a “pathway” to anything. It’s all just a marketing handle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## espola (Jun 23, 2021)

ToonArmy said:


> Aren't the Olympic soccer teams some sort of youth team I think u23?


U24, with 3 exemptions, but only on the men's side.


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## lafalafa (Jun 23, 2021)

Wow what a roster, almost like a world cup one but called something else.

Good for our women, they will represent well and we have some soccer to cheer for. 

What a contrast to the men's side where we haven't even qualified or put in a good squad  

Go USA!


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## Soccer43 (Jun 23, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> There is no such League that is a “pathway” to anything. It’s all just a marketing handle.


Yes, I agree but US Soccer disrupted the whole youth soccer system with their power, gave that false impression and pressured players into joining a club that was gifted as a DA with the threat that if you weren’t in the DA your path was closed.  Then they abandoned it all blaming COVID which had nothing to do with the disaster and took no responsibility- leaving those players going through all that time with mess.


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## eastbaysoccer (Jun 23, 2021)

Wonder if Smith should have stayed at Stanford.  Pugh perhaps should have went to Stanford.  IMO big mistake for both but both are dating pro athletes and I suppose will be taken care of.


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## Kicker4Life (Jun 23, 2021)

Soccer43 said:


> Yes, I agree but US Soccer disrupted the whole youth soccer system with their power, gave that false impression and pressured players into joining a club that was gifted as a DA with the threat that if you weren’t in the DA your path was closed.  Then they abandoned it all blaming COVID which had nothing to do with the disaster and took no responsibility- leaving those players going through all that time with mess.


Not here to grind your ax with GDA…..had ECNL not allowed SoCal DOC’s to hold a virtual monopoly on the region and addressed the large geographic holes maybe things would have taken a different path.   It wasn’t till year 2 of GDA that ECNL decided to make offers to clubs that had been “black balled” by these DOC’s in order to keep a lock on recruiting the talent away from those clubs.  Then made them put their Top Teams in ECRL to play lopsided games for a disrupted season…..(13 games with 83 GF and 3 against)

Both my DD’s had to navigate the GDA fall-out and did so successfully.  Guess we both have some ax’s to grind.


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## oh canada (Jun 24, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Seems like the way to be on the WNT is to have been on WNT five years ago.


You mean 10 years ago.  Give me the top 18 California women under age 25 and Ted Lasso as coach and we will beat this roster of veterans.


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## full90 (Jun 27, 2021)

Macario not making it is a joke. Rapinoe can’t go 90 min let alone so many games in a short spell. Morgan can receive service and score but we have players who can do that plus create plus keep the ball. Lloyd keeps scoring and might murder you if you keep her off the roster but this reeks of keeping them for salary’s sake and lifetime achievement when bringing your younger players would be the smart move. ESP one like macario who is the future.


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## eastbaysoccer (Jul 4, 2021)

This is the vets swan song.   Let them end their careers in Tokyo.


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## Messi>CR7 (Jul 6, 2021)

ToonArmy said:


> Aren't the Olympic soccer teams some sort of youth team I think u23?


U23 rule only applies to men's Olympic soccer.  It's perfectly fine to discriminate against men.


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## espola (Jul 6, 2021)

Messi>CR7 said:


> U23 rule only applies to men's Olympic soccer.  It's perfectly fine to discriminate against men.


This year it is U24 because of the one-year delay (with the customary 3 exemptions).

I remember when everyone had to be an amateur, and Avery Brundage would decide what that meant.


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## Desert Hound (Jul 6, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> 13 games with 83 GF and 3 against)


So you are saying the games were pretty close


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## Venantsyo (Jul 21, 2021)

0-3 vs Sweden


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## Carlsbad7 (Jul 21, 2021)

With the 0-3 loss to Sweden they'll likely need to win both of their next group play matches, against New Zealand and Australia, to move into the knockout round.


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## LB Mom 78 (Jul 21, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> With the 0-3 loss to Sweden they'll likely need to win both of their next group play matches, against New Zealand and Australia, to move into the knockout round.


What an embarrassing performance.  Too bad that group of 15 year old boys was not available to play for the US today.


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## tjinaz (Jul 21, 2021)

LB Mom 78 said:


> What an embarrassing performance.  Too bad that group of 15 year old boys was not available to play for the US today.


Yea.. pretty sad.  Glad I didn't wake up for this.  Maybe they should concentrate more on soccer and less on virtue signaling and media deals.


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## SoccerLocker (Jul 21, 2021)

All of the folks waiting since January 2019 to pile on...  SMDH.  

If they are our team when they win, but inferior to boys or virtue signalers when they lose, can you really call yourself a fan?


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## tjinaz (Jul 21, 2021)

SoccerLocker said:


> All of the folks waiting since January 2019 to pile on...  SMDH.
> 
> If they are our team when they win, but inferior to boys or virtue signalers when they lose, can you really call yourself a fan?


They have gotten arrogant and paid the price.  So you can't call them out on lack of effort and not be a fan?  I guess they are untouchable.


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## SoccerLocker (Jul 21, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> They have gotten arrogant and paid the price.  So you can't call them out on lack of effort and not be a fan?  I guess they are untouchable.


No comments made about their lack of effort, just that they are arrogant virtue signalers.  That sounds like haterade.

I'm watching it now, and effort, tactics and technical talk I'm here for... Kicking them after losing for the first time in 30 months... I'm not.


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## tjinaz (Jul 21, 2021)

SoccerLocker said:


> No comments made about their lack of effort, just that they are arrogant virtue signalers.  That sounds like haterade.
> 
> I'm watching it now, and effort, tactics and technical talk I'm here for... Kicking them after losing for the first time in 30 months... I'm not.


Um.. concentrating on soccer is what I said... think that is covered.  You see haterade because its what you want to see.  

"Yea.. pretty sad. Glad I didn't wake up for this. Maybe they should concentrate more on soccer and less on virtue signaling and media deals."


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## Carlsbad7 (Jul 21, 2021)

SoccerLocker said:


> All of the folks waiting since January 2019 to pile on...  SMDH.
> 
> If they are our team when they win, but inferior to boys or virtue signalers when they lose, can you really call yourself a fan?


I don't call it hateraid what I see are...

A team full of veterans
A team full of players with "agendas" outside of the USWNT

Are the best womens players on the field?
Will the team regroup and focus on soccer instead of which knee is the correct one to kneel on or what hair color complements being gay best.

Basically, Put Up or Shut Up...


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## Willie (Jul 21, 2021)

LB Mom 78 said:


> What an embarrassing performance.  Too bad that group of 15 year old boys was not available to play for the US today.


 The beating that the FC Dallas kids put on the US Women 4 years ago has nothing to do with what happened today. The current team could easily beat those boys now. Today was an off day and they will bounce back and advance out of the group.


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## MSK357 (Jul 21, 2021)

Willie said:


> The beating that the FC Dallas kids put on the US Women 4 years ago has nothing to do with what happened today. The current team could easily beat those boys now. Today was an off day and they will bounce back and advance out of the group.


Those boys today would be 19 years old.  It could be more difficult.


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## oh canada (Jul 21, 2021)

it's not the social justice dedication that causes a drubbing like that.  I posit that it's all the cupcake opponents played, and when they do play better teams it's usually on home soil.  Second, I've always contended that other countries just need to have the endurance and courage to press USA for 90 minutes and they will make mistakes because these old timers don't have the deft skill and touch that the new crop of girls coming up have.  Congrats to Sweden on a beautifully played game all around.  USA will beat NZ and Australia.  A first round knockout match vs. Netherlands will be their next real test.

my Canada side didn't look much better than USA unfortunately.  fortunately they came away with a point.


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## El Clasico (Jul 21, 2021)

Willie said:


> The beating that the FC Dallas kids put on the US Women 4 years ago has nothing to do with what happened today. The current team could easily beat those boys now. Today was an off day and they will bounce back and advance out of the group.


You may want to find a new sport to support.  The WNT plays younger boys more often you may think and those top 15 year old boys teams will be the women 99 out of 100 times and if that is a difficult concept for you to grasp, then you are in the wrong sport. However, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that you would get similar results in a lot of other sports as well.


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## Willie (Jul 21, 2021)

El Clasico said:


> You may want to find a new sport to support.  The WNT plays younger boys more often you may think and those top 15 year old boys teams will be the women 99 out of 100 times and if that is a difficult concept for you to grasp, then you are in the wrong sport. However, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that you would get similar results in a lot of other sports as well.


I am confused by this. I said the US Women have improved and will bounce back.


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## tjinaz (Jul 21, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I don't call it hateraid what I see are...
> 
> A team full of veterans
> A team full of players with "agendas" outside of the USWNT
> ...


This....

I don't think they put the best team possible on the field nor on the roster.  Used to be it didn't matter we were so deep compared to other teams any number of our players could do the work.  The world has changed.  I feel like this roster was more a thank you to veteran players and a send off than actually trying to win.  Some players are seeing this as a last chance to cash in on the big stage of the Olympics to get endorsement deals, push their agendas and lock in media roles before they checkout and US Soccer is letting them do it.  

Not saying they can't pull it off.. maybe this is the wake up they needed but get back on track and realize what got them here and execute.


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## El Clasico (Jul 21, 2021)

Willie said:


> I am confused by this. I said the US Women have improved and will bounce back.


My apologies.  I thought you said this "The current team could easily beat those boys now", which would demonstrate your ignorance but since that is not what you said, I apologize once again.


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## Willie (Jul 21, 2021)

El Clasico said:


> My apologies.  I thought you said this "The current team could easily beat those boys now", which would demonstrate your ignorance but since that is not what you said, I apologize once again.


No worries. Mistakes happen and I am happy your are willing to admit.


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## MSK357 (Jul 21, 2021)

Willie said:


> No worries. Mistakes happen and I am happy your are willing to admit.


But you did say the current team could beat those boys now:



Willie said:


> The current team could easily beat those boys now.


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## whatithink (Jul 21, 2021)

oh canada said:


> it's not the social justice dedication that causes a drubbing like that.  I posit that it's all the cupcake opponents played, and when they do play better teams it's usually on home soil.  Second, I've always contended that other countries just need to have the endurance and courage to press USA for 90 minutes and they will make mistakes because these old timers don't have the deft skill and touch that the new crop of girls coming up have.  Congrats to Sweden on a beautifully played game all around.  USA will beat NZ and Australia.  A first round knockout match vs. Netherlands will be their next real test.
> 
> my Canada side didn't look much better than USA unfortunately.  fortunately they came away with a point.


I think the European teams in particular have just about caught up with the US and will shortly overtake them. The US does have the quantity of players, but the Europeans have the quality of development through their academies and competition through their domestic and European leagues.

The reduced number of teams in the Olympics is fortunate for those teams in it, e.g. only 3 European teams qualify for the Olympics based on where they finished at the last world cup. So you have GB (not a team except for the Olympics), Netherlands & Sweden. #2 & #3 in the world (Germany & France) are not, add in Spain (Barcelona just won the Champions league) and it devalues the Gold imv.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jul 21, 2021)

I think any criticism of the WNT has been skirted around. In the past anyone who said something against them was heavily criticized. Therefore left unsaid. I have mentioned a few minor things in the past but have not posted anything new on them in over a year. Many posts here ring points that have been held back by posters until now. Some of them I agree with. Others not so much. What I will add is that the overall style of play is better then when it was under Pia or April. That’s a good start. But, after the olympics much must change in regards to player selection.


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## Emma (Jul 21, 2021)

The US struggled everywhere especially their ability to put pressure on Sweden's passing game.

Coaching - not making sure we had a CB that could defend against tall headers, not pressing up top first half.  not replacing Dunn, Press, and Horan

Press - could not make a good cross, always slightly off pace, playing balls behind players, and just not helping much defensively

Dunn - consistently getting beat

Goalie - can't catch any ball and giving away too many corner kicks.  You've got to try to hold on to balls against teams that are very good at the set pieces.

Mewis, Horan, and Lavelle - wasn't winning balls and giving away balls more than intercepting them. Lavelle probably was the best one but her passing accuracy was pretty poor too and she physically was losing the battle.

Rapinoe looked good.  Smart and quick player out there.  

Ertz - still looks good and was probably the best defensive player.


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## eastbaysoccer (Jul 21, 2021)

So a country made of 10 million just hammered a country of 300 million.  The world has caught up in women’s soccer and will likely pass us just like the men.   Macario would not have helped.


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## SoccerLocker (Jul 21, 2021)

That was an ass whooping.  Sweden dominated every phase of the game, and we looked lost in/out of possession.  2nd to every ball is not a good look.

I can't recall the USWNT struggling like that since the 2015 WC group stages where Jill had Carly Lloyd playing the 6.  She finally moved Julie Ertz too the 6 in the knockouts and we have never looked back.  Unfortunately Julie's not 100% and looked pretty rusty when she came on.

Our midfield was about a 3/10, gave away the ball constantly and got our CBs isolated 1v1 a lot.  We were lucky not to lose by more.

They have just dug a whole for themselves, and need 2 wins to make it out of the group, where Brazil will likely be waiting.  If they fail to make it out of the group, they will deservedly take a load of criticism.


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## eastbaysoccer (Jul 21, 2021)

My local men’s high school team would beat any of those teams 10-0.


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## outside! (Jul 21, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> My local men’s high school team would beat any of those teams 10-0.


Of course they would, men and women are different and it is useless to discuss how a bunch of teenage boys can beat a women's team.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 21, 2021)

44 straight games without a loss…..glad they got humbled, it’s healthy for them.


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## Desert Hound (Jul 21, 2021)

outside! said:


> Of course they would, men and women are different and it is useless to discuss how a bunch of teenage boys can beat a women's team.


Not entirely. 

It highlights the fact that men and women are different and that is why we have divisions between mens and womens sports. But today some people like the idea of men playing on womens teams. 

So not entirely useless


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## Desert Hound (Jul 21, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> 44 straight games without a loss…..glad they got humbled, it’s healthy for them.


Sometimes it helps to focus the mind.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 21, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> So a country made of 10 million just hammered a country of 300 million.  The world has caught up in women’s soccer and will likely pass us just like the men.   Macario would not have helped.


Belgium - 11 million people, Mens team is ranked #1 in the world.  Population size has little to do with success on the field.


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## eastbaysoccer (Jul 21, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Belgium - 11 million people, Mens team is ranked #1 in the world.  Population size has little to do with success on the field.


Amazing.  Same could said for Iceland. The US is devoid of the top African American athletes.  100% certain if every top African American athlete played soccer their skill, size and pace on the US team would be incredible.  We would also need better coaching.


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## eastbaysoccer (Jul 21, 2021)

The USWNT could very well tie the aussies and be out.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jul 21, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Belgium - 11 million people, Mens team is ranked #1 in the world.  Population size has little to do with success on the field.


China 1.444 Billion. WNT #15. MNT #77.


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## whatithink (Jul 21, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> Amazing.  Same could said for Iceland. The US is devoid of the top African American athletes.  100% certain if every top African American athlete played soccer their skill, size and pace on the US team would be incredible.  We would also need better coaching.


That's just a weird statement, wrt the top African American athletes. The US needs to focus on technical ability first and athletes second, not the other way around. The best players are good athletes, some are even great athletes, but they are not the best players because of their athleticism. The top soccer academies are looking for and developing top technical players with top soccer IQ from a young age. They are not concerned with the athleticism when they are young and know they can resolve that relatively easily - they can't resolve the other easily.


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## chiefs (Jul 21, 2021)

whatithink said:


> I think the European teams in particular have just about caught up with the US and will shortly overtake them. The US does have the quantity of players, but the Europeans have the quality of development through their academies and competition through their domestic and European leagues.
> 
> The reduced number of teams in the Olympics is fortunate for those teamsin it, e.g. only 3 European teams qualify for the Olympics based on where they finished at the last world cup. So you have GB (not a team except for the Olympics), Netherlands & Sweden. #2 & #3 in the world (Germany & France) are not, add in Spain (Barcelona just won the Champions league) and it devalues the Gold imv.


I think the hand writing on the wall is clear as day...The Euros have the funding mechanism, the focus, the resources, the academies, and the best trainers in the world.  US youth system pay to play with D license coaches just doesn't cut it anymore.  The World has passed and is beyond the US system, and will further dominate in the future.  Bad player selection at all age levels is only a symptom of a poor system.


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## whatithink (Jul 21, 2021)

chiefs said:


> I think the hand writing on the wall is clear as day...The Euros have the funding mechanism, the focus, the resources, the academies, and the best trainers in the world.  US youth system pay to play with D license coaches just doesn't cut it anymore.  The World has passed and is beyond the US system, and will further dominate in the future.  Bad player selection at all age levels is only a symptom of a poor system.


Agree, I've seen multiple (A level) coaches select big athletes and say they can teach them soccer. I've seen them ignore players who are technically way better and have way more soccer IQ. The talent is there (in the US), but the system sucks. 

The MLS academies should help, but their feeder system is still managed by coaches like the ones I referenced, and the MLSs are looking at the "top" talent that those coaches selected.

On the girls side its all about college, for good reason from a parent's perspective. I would that 90%+ of the college games I've seen on TV or some even in person, suck. The standard / level is horrible. Good for the girls for living their dream, but as a system to develop USWNT talent, its nowhere close to what the same players in the Euro academies are getting.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 21, 2021)

whatithink said:


> Agree, I've seen multiple (A level) coaches select big athletes and say they can teach them soccer. I've seen them ignore players who are technically way better and have way more soccer IQ. The talent is there (in the US), but the system sucks.
> 
> The MLS academies should help, but their feeder system is still managed by coaches like the ones I referenced, and the MLSs are looking at the "top" talent that those coaches selected.
> 
> On the girls side its all about college, for good reason from a parent's perspective. I would that 90%+ of the college games I've seen on TV or some even in person, suck. The standard / level is horrible. Good for the girls for living their dream, but as a system to develop USWNT talent, its nowhere close to what the same players in the Euro academies are getting.


We need a makeover in the youth program.  This whole ECNL pay $4k plus a another $6k in travel fees is insane.  You can only attract the top athletes with money.      This will not work for inner city kids that have amazing talent.


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## paytoplay (Jul 21, 2021)

Poor coaching debut, poor player selection and starting lineup —why is Alex Morgan and Carly Lloyd there? Off nights from Press, Horan and Lavelle. Good Sweden team, always tough matchup. But, yes, millions paid to play on an increasing exclusive youth sport, and this is the outcome—aging stars, past prime. Based on the numbers of players we see out on the fields every week and all the various elite leagues and flights, we should be teeming with young talent coming up every year. What happened?


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## what-happened (Jul 22, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> We need a makeover in the youth program.  This whole ECNL pay $4k plus a another $6k in travel fees is insane.  You can only attract the top athletes with money.      This will not work for inner city kids that have amazing talent.


All of us who love the game agree with this.  Unfortunately that's the not the path that soccer in the US is ever going to take.  Way too much money at stake.  Letter league soccer is status symbol for many, especially amongst parents of girls.  Someone could start a 3rd, 4th, 5th league and there would be takers. 

The MLS and USL1 will be the major players in finding and funding talent that normally wouldn't have access to fancy leagues and cool travel.  There isn't enough horsepower in the women's game to make a dent.  The NWSL struggles to exist year over year.  

We really only care about soccer once every 4 years.  Beyond that, nationally we don't really care if the gap between the US women's and the rest of the world is closing or has closed.  We are perfectly fine sending out DDs to college, getting a great experience, then moving on to contribute to society.  Nothing wrong with that really.


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## Emma (Jul 22, 2021)

what-happened said:


> All of us who love the game agree with this.  Unfortunately that's the not the path that soccer in the US is ever going to take.  Way too much money at stake.  Letter league soccer is status symbol for many, especially amongst parents of girls.  Someone could start a 3rd, 4th, 5th league and there would be takers.
> 
> The MLS and USL1 will be the major players in finding and funding talent that normally wouldn't have access to fancy leagues and cool travel.  There isn't enough horsepower in the women's game to make a dent.  The NWSL struggles to exist year over year.
> 
> We really only care about soccer once every 4 years.  Beyond that, nationally we don't really care if the gap between the US women's and the rest of the world is closing or has closed.  We are perfectly fine sending out DDs to college, getting a great experience, then moving on to contribute to society.  Nothing wrong with that really.


It will have to be a grassroot effort by top players along with college scouts.  Don't put your kid in ECNL or a traveling league, do local leagues.  Save the environment and your family time.  If most of the top players are not in ECNL and doing discovery league to remain local, that's where the scouts will go.  Don't let the DOCs convince you that lining their pockets, hotel pockets, and airline pockets to go to Dallas in the middle of June is the only way to be better.  Get all the good local players together, form a local team and play to win the national championship.  

Colleges-don't scout at these rich leagues, focus on local tournaments and only go to the main regional and national tourneys.  If there are no scouts at ECNL or travel tournaments, then top players won't sign up for the travelling leagues.


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## Carlsbad7 (Jul 22, 2021)

Emma said:


> It will have to be a grassroot effort by top players along with college scouts.  Don't put your kid in ECNL or a traveling league, do local leagues.  Save the environment and your family time.  If most of the top players are not in ECNL and doing discovery league to remain local, that's where the scouts will go.  Don't let the DOCs convince you that lining their pockets, hotel pockets, and airline pockets to go to Dallas in the middle of June is the only way to be better.  Get all the good local players together, form a local team and play to win the national championship.
> 
> Colleges-don't scout at these rich leagues, focus on local tournaments and only go to the main regional and national tourneys.  If there are no scouts at ECNL or travel tournaments, then top players won't sign up for the travelling leagues.


You're arguing that scouts wont go to ECNL events looking for players? I dont buy this.

I do believe that ECNL coaches are scouting local leagues looking for potential talent that they can put on scholarship if good enough.


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## what-happened (Jul 22, 2021)

Emma said:


> It will have to be a grassroot effort by top players along with college scouts.  Don't put your kid in ECNL or a traveling league, do local leagues.  Save the environment and your family time.  If most of the top players are not in ECNL and doing discovery league to remain local, that's where the scouts will go.  Don't let the DOCs convince you that lining their pockets, hotel pockets, and airline pockets to go to Dallas in the middle of June is the only way to be better.  Get all the good local players together, form a local team and play to win the national championship.
> 
> Colleges-don't scout at these rich leagues, focus on local tournaments and only go to the main regional and national tourneys.  If there are no scouts at ECNL or travel tournaments, then top players won't sign up for the travelling leagues.


It briefs well but will never happen.  The staffs at ECNL, GA, etc are too intertwined with clubs and colleges to ever become a reality.


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## Emma (Jul 22, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> You're arguing that scouts wont go to ECNL events looking for players? I dont buy this.
> 
> I do believe that ECNL coaches are scouting local leagues looking for potential talent that they can put on scholarship if good enough.


I'm suggesting college scouts stop going to ECNL events if the cost of entry and participating in ECNL is kept at a high price, exclusive to the wealthy only.  If we want to make high level sports more affordable for everyone, we need college scouts to recognize they can be part of the solution.


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## Emma (Jul 22, 2021)

what-happened said:


> It briefs well but will never happen.  The staffs at ECNL, GA, etc are too intertwined with clubs and colleges to ever become a reality.


If the parents of good players unite and say they don't want to play travel leagues unless its for regional or national championships, the DOCs will oblige.  The question is, can we overcome our own selfishness for the better of the game and the larger population of athletes. 

I agree, it will be tough to become a reality.  It will probably be an easier route to promote this to universities looking at their diversity and inclusion of female athletes.  Football, basketball, MLS, etc give more access to male athletes a chance at college sports regardless of their financial means but female athletes without financial means don't have as many chances.


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## futboldad1 (Jul 22, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> Amazing.  Same could said for Iceland. The US is devoid of the top African American athletes.  100% certain if every top African American athlete played soccer their skill, size and pace on the US team would be incredible.  We would also need better coaching.


Lol did you watch the Euros?? Italy not athletic at all compared to many teams and the US norm but championes as it’s futbol that matters…….


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## oh canada (Jul 22, 2021)

Emma said:


> If the parents of good players unite and say they don't want to play travel leagues unless its for regional or national championships, the DOCs will oblige.


I love the optimism, but the parents you speak of are the same ones who can't even muster up the courage to have their kid skip a game for a family vacation, or skip a week of practice to attend an academic camp, or play for a local club instead of driving 2 hours for a brand name club, or..._gasp._..take a few weeks completely off from soccer for a mental break.

FOMO and fear of repercussions (eg, losing playing time) run their life and influences all family decisions.  Once parents start claiming control of their family lives back, then we can move on to bigger issues.


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## what-happened (Jul 22, 2021)

oh canada said:


> I love the optimism, but the parents you speak of are the same ones who can't even muster up the courage to have their kid skip a game for a family vacation, or skip a week of practice to attend an academic camp, or play for a local club instead of driving 2 hours for a brand name club, or..._gasp._..take a few weeks completely off from soccer for a mental break.
> 
> FOMO and fear of repercussions (eg, losing playing time) run their life and influences all family decisions.  Once parents start claiming control of their family lives back, then we can move on to bigger issues.


youth sports described... crazy isn't it.


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## Carlsbad7 (Jul 22, 2021)

oh canada said:


> I love the optimism, but the parents you speak of are the same ones who can't even muster up the courage to have their kid skip a game for a family vacation, or skip a week of practice to attend an academic camp, or play for a local club instead of driving 2 hours for a brand name club, or..._gasp._..take a few weeks completely off from soccer for a mental break.
> 
> FOMO and fear of repercussions (eg, losing playing time) run their life and influences all family decisions.  Once parents start claiming control of their family lives back, then we can move on to bigger issues.


This is why it makes sense to have your kid try out at multiple clubs (if possible) and get connected with different coaches. Sometimes the grass is greener sometimes it's not. Once you've gone through different tryout options you'll have a good idea about when you're being fed BS. Also you won't be afraid to stand up and say "this doesn't make sense".

Coaches (especially for the youngers) know that new parents are at a disadvantage + understand how to push the fear button if needed.


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## Desert Hound (Jul 22, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Once you've gone through different tryout options you'll have a good idea about when you're being fed BS


That mostly applies in the younger years. At the olders tryouts seem to make little difference. Coaches know who is around and they call you or you call them.


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## Carlsbad7 (Jul 22, 2021)

Desert Hound said:


> That mostly applies in the younger years. At the olders tryouts seem to make little difference. Coaches know who is around and they call you or you call them.


Agree 1000% however I'd like to see the coach that turns away a superstar if they only show up for official tryouts + didn't call them directly and ask to join one of their sessions. The best players will get noticed. Only downside of not reaching out to a coach early is that they might have already filled up all available slots when the official tryouts occur.


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## Soccer43 (Jul 22, 2021)

Emma said:


> I'm suggesting college scouts stop going to ECNL events if the cost of entry and participating in ECNL is kept at a high price, exclusive to the wealthy only.  If we want to make high level sports more affordable for everyone, we need college scouts to recognize they can be part of the solution.


Why would college coaches not go to ECNL events?  That's where the best players are, all at one location.  That is the most efficient way to scout players.  College coaches are there to get players that can help them win games and conferences so they can keep their jobs.  They don't care about the social justice part.


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## what-happened (Jul 23, 2021)

Soccer43 said:


> Why would college coaches not go to ECNL events?  That's where the best players are, all at one location.  That is the most efficient way to scout players.  College coaches are there to get players that can help them win games and conferences so they can keep their jobs.  They don't care about the social justice part.


I believe the point being made is that the high dollar pay to play leagues do not truly capture the best talent. There are many who don't have access, who will never have access.  And yes, you are right, college coaches don't care about "social justice", they operate within the system that is most efficient for them to do their job.  

Pay to play is not the most efficient way to funnel the best of the best into a national program.  It's worked up until now due to sheer volume.  The rest of the world is catching up/caught up.  The same principles/systems that have been applied to men's programs in Europe (and elsewhere) are now being applied to women's programs.  Cost isn't a driving factor for development and playing in college isn't a thing.  It's a thing here because it's a gateway to education.  And really nothing wrong with that.  As a country, we really don't care about soccer except during the world cup and the olympics.  We like to be the best.  We will have this discussion again in 2-4 years.  By that time, it will be a new crop of parents that care.   many of us will hopefully have watched our DDs play their 4 yrs and move on to positively contribute to society.  

I certainly don't really care about how well we are postured in international women's soccer.  Unless the timing is there, I'll likely not catch a live minute of Olympic soccer.


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## Desert Hound (Jul 23, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Agree 1000% however I'd like to see the coach that turns away a superstar if they only show up for official tryouts


If a superstar shows up to tryouts who they are unaware of (someone that moved into the region) of course they will get picked up.


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## Emma (Jul 23, 2021)

Soccer43 said:


> Why would college coaches not go to ECNL events?  That's where the best players are, all at one location.  That is the most efficient way to scout players.  College coaches are there to get players that can help them win games and conferences so they can keep their jobs.  They don't care about the social justice part.


Let's correct that:  ECNL showcases are very convenient for college scouts to see the best rich kids play.

We're screwing the overall girls soccer program in America in order to please the wealthy rich parents.  We will fall behind the soccer world if we continue to only pick amongst the best rich kids and not develop players locally at the grassroots level.  

ECNL can be part of the solution by being more inclusive of teams rather than just limiting it to rich soccer clubs that charge a lot.  ECNL should allow a team that is developed by a volunteer dad at the local park to enter ECNL if they're good enough.


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## tjinaz (Jul 23, 2021)

Emma said:


> Let's correct that:  ECNL showcases are very convenient for college scouts to see the best rich kids play.
> 
> We're screwing the overall girls soccer program in America in order to please the wealthy rich parents.  We will fall behind the soccer world if we continue to only pick amongst the best rich kids and not develop players locally at the grassroots level.
> 
> ECNL can be part of the solution by being more inclusive of teams rather than just limiting it to rich soccer clubs that charge a lot.  ECNL should allow a team that is developed by a volunteer dad at the local park to enter ECNL if they're good enough.


As soon as you get those top level coaches and organizations to stop charging so much money for their services ... I will be right behind you.  I am sure they will voluntarily cut their pay and start training kids for free once you explain that to them.  The fields and all the other support groups will be right behind them.  Actually if you could just get the airlines, hotels and car rental places to not charge so much ECNL/GA/MLS would be affordable.  Lets ask them for a special "grassroots" soccer rate and see how that goes.


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## Emma (Jul 23, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> As soon as you get those top level coaches and organizations to stop charging so much money for their services ... I will be right behind you.  I am sure they will voluntarily cut their pay and start training kids for free once you explain that to them.  The fields and all the other support groups will be right behind them.  Actually if you could just get the airlines, hotels and car rental places to not charge so much ECNL/GA/MLS would be affordable.  Lets ask them for a special "grassroots" soccer rate and see how that goes.


It doesn't have to be one way or the other.  You can still have coaches charge a lot for parents who can pay but you should also give scouting access to parents that can't pay and are willing to put their time into the parks on the weekends and after school.  Help paying for fields and administrative costs will be part of the tournament fees, so that's not an issue.


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## tjinaz (Jul 23, 2021)

Emma said:


> It doesn't have to be one way or the other.  You can still have coaches charge a lot for parents who can pay but you should also give scouting access to parents that can't pay and are willing to put their time into the parks on the weekends and after school.  Help paying for fields and administrative costs will be part of the tournament fees, so that's not an issue.


Other countries do all this through player sales.  The domestic clubs train the good players for free in the hopes of them getting good enough to sell.  Then those sales finance the rest of the program.   MLS is just now getting good enough to start becoming a source of talent for the big clubs.  Until we get to the point where the MLS clubs are selling to Europe or each other more this won't change.  Women's soccer is simply not profitable enough for this to happen and this is the reason why USA has done so well.  Europe is now starting to subsidize their girls/women's programs so they are catching up.


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## Emma (Jul 23, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> As soon as you get those top level coaches and organizations to stop charging so much money for their services ... I will be right behind you.  I am sure they will voluntarily cut their pay and start training kids for free once you explain that to them.  The fields and all the other support groups will be right behind them.  Actually if you could just get the airlines, hotels and car rental places to not charge so much ECNL/GA/MLS would be affordable.  Lets ask them for a special "grassroots" soccer rate and see how that goes.


On the traveling note, it's very unnecessary, especially for socal kids.  That's our problem, we've added all these extra cost into soccer development and scouting - airline tickets, hotels, car rentals, eating out. 

There's no handouts being asked for here.  There's an access issue because scouting is being done mostly through a very expensive league.  This can easily be cured if the expensive league would create a pathway for teams to get access to these local scouting events. In fact, they can even make money by throwing a local tournaments and the top two winners get into the champions league regional showcases too.  It's a win win but for the fact that rich clubs local clubs. 

As for the MLS comments - that's for the pro and we don't have that on the women's side.  Even if we did, we're discussing access to college scouts, not pro teams.  In relationship to pro teams too, why not create our own pathway that might be better than the Europeans selling children, I mean athletes?


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## dad4 (Jul 23, 2021)

Emma said:


> On the traveling note, it's very unnecessary, especially for socal kids.  That's our problem, we've added all these extra cost into soccer development and scouting - airline tickets, hotels, car rentals, eating out.
> 
> There's no handouts being asked for here.  There's an access issue because scouting is being done mostly through a very expensive league.  This can easily be cured if the expensive league would create a pathway for teams to get access to these local scouting events. In fact, they can even make money by throwing a local tournaments and the top two winners get into the champions league regional showcases too.  It's a win win but for the fact that rich clubs local clubs.
> 
> As for the MLS comments - that's for the pro and we don't have that on the women's side.  Even if we did, we're discussing access to college scouts, not pro teams.  In relationship to pro teams too, why not create our own pathway that might be better than the Europeans selling children, I mean athletes?


For most country, “abandon GA/ECNL“ isn‘t much of an option.   Often, there are only enough girls for one high level teams in the area.  That makes it Hobson’s choice.  You can play top level, or not.  But there is no third option.


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## what-happened (Jul 23, 2021)

dad4 said:


> For most country, “abandon GA/ECNL“ isn‘t much of an option.   Often, there are only enough girls for one high level teams in the area.  That makes it Hobson’s choice.  You can play top level, or not.  But there is no third option.


We all know that pay to play is here to stay.  We've decided (or it's been decided for us) that it's the only way to be seen.  The idea that clubs/coaches/parents can put together great teams without having to pay is hard to imagine based on the current system - at least that's what the enterprise leagues want you to believe.

Football doesn't have this at all.  HS teams (most) aren't putting together exclusive high level teams.  They actually have to train, develop, and coach their teams into success.  There are obviously a few unicorns sprinkled throughout.  There are always exceptions, especially amongst Private Schools.  They tend to skirt the system and "recruit".  The SEC is able to recruit mostly local to their schools or at least regionally within the SEC states.  Not much traveling going on.

This thread has definitely gone on a tangent.  I think the point is that we don't need exclusive leagues but we have them and don't have a mechanism to get rid of them.  Money talks and parents with money will continue to drive the train.


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## outside! (Jul 23, 2021)

dad4 said:


> For most country, “abandon GA/ECNL“ isn‘t much of an option.   Often, there are only enough girls for one high level teams in the area.  That makes it Hobson’s choice.  You can play top level, or not.  But there is no third option.


When you are saying "most of the country" you are referring to the areas outside of densely populated areas, so you are in fact referring to land, not people. Most of the people live in larger cities, that do have the population density to "abandon GA/ECNL". Southern California could form it's own high level league and the top team of a given age group in that league would be able to compete with any team in it's age group from anywhere else in the country.


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## Emma (Jul 23, 2021)

dad4 said:


> For most country, “abandon GA/ECNL“ isn‘t much of an option.   Often, there are only enough girls for one high level teams in the area.  That makes it Hobson’s choice.  You can play top level, or not.  But there is no third option.


Not abandoning ECNL or GA, but adding a method to allow teams into the Champions league or GA playoffs without having to pay for the big club coaches or traveling during league. 

I know we can't convince parents to let these "elite" or "expensive" leagues go because their daughters are benefitting from it but we can easily add access to scouting events.


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## what-happened (Jul 23, 2021)

outside! said:


> When you are saying "most of the country" you are referring to the areas outside of densely populated areas, so you are in fact referring to land, not people. Most of the people live in larger cities, that do have the population density to "abandon GA/ECNL". Southern California could form it's own high level league and the top team of a given age group in that league would be able to compete with any team in it's age group from anywhere else in the country.


CA/TX/NJ/FL could live without leagues.  I'm sure there are other states but these come to mind.  Top Teams in remote parts of the country will still have to travel for higher level competition- not any different than what is happening now.  

Again, pipe dream.  Letter leagues are here for now. The Kool Aid stays in the system for a long time.


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## Emma (Jul 23, 2021)

what-happened said:


> CA/TX/NJ/FL could live without leagues.  I'm sure there are other states but these come to mind.  Top Teams in remote parts of the country will still have to travel for higher level competition- not any different than what is happening now.
> 
> Again, pipe dream.  Letter leagues are here for now. The Kool Aid stays in the system for a long time.


Top girl teams can play boys locally if they don't have sufficient competition on the girls side to develop.  This is what Europe is doing with their top girls teams because they don't have enough girls teams but they do have lots of boys teams.


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## what-happened (Jul 23, 2021)

Emma said:


> Top girl teams can play boys locally if they don't have sufficient competition on the girls side to develop.  This is what Europe is doing with their top girls teams because they don't have enough girls teams but they do have lots of boys teams.


Have seen it done.  It can be effective if done thoughtfully.  Have always seen it where the girls are playing younger boys.  If not done thoughtfully, injuries will happen.


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## Soccer43 (Jul 23, 2021)

Emma said:


> Let's correct that:  ECNL showcases are very convenient for college scouts to see the best rich kids play.
> 
> We're screwing the overall girls soccer program in America in order to please the wealthy rich parents.  We will fall behind the soccer world if we continue to only pick amongst the best rich kids and not develop players locally at the grassroots level.
> 
> ECNL can be part of the solution by being more inclusive of teams rather than just limiting it to rich soccer clubs that charge a lot.  ECNL should allow a team that is developed by a volunteer dad at the local park to enter ECNL if they're good enough.


your perspective is a bit limited in understanding the ECNL structure and what is realistic.  It isn't meant for individual independent teams to come and go.  It is meant for the whole club to be in or out.  It would be a bit chaotic to have individual independent teams coming and going from the ECNL.  How would they decide which teams are in the ECNL and which are out on an annual basis?  Most ECNL clubs that I have been involved with all offer scholarships to players that are good but don't have the funds to pay for it.  Even the top clubs offer support to those top players that come from lower income families that can't afford the costs.  Also, rather than change the whole system and try to make a ridiculous power grab like creating the DA it would have been better to work with the existing systems, support what was there to improve the quality and for US Soccer to offer financial assistance to players that apply for scholarships so they can afford the existing system.  That would have been a more effective and less disruptive approach.


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## Emma (Jul 23, 2021)

Soccer43 said:


> your perspective is a bit limited in understanding the ECNL structure and what is realistic.  It isn't meant for individual independent teams to come and go.  It is meant for the whole club to be in or out.  It would be a bit chaotic to have individual independent teams coming and going from the ECNL.  How would they decide which teams are in the ECNL and which are out on an annual basis?  Most ECNL clubs that I have been involved with all offer scholarships to players that are good but don't have the funds to pay for it.  Even the top clubs offer support to those top players that come from lower income families that can't afford the costs.  Also, rather than change the whole system and try to make a ridiculous power grab like creating the DA it would have been better to work with the existing systems, support what was there to improve the quality and for US Soccer to offer financial assistance to players that apply for scholarships so they can afford the existing system.  That would have been a more effective and less disruptive approach.


We're in the ECNL system and understand how it works with the club structure.  What I'm saying is not to dismantle it or make major changes to it, but rather allow non ecnl teams into their major scouting arenas like the regional showcases and champions leagues based on annual local tournaments ECNL can hold and profit from. The two finalist or 4 semifinalist teams earn a spot to compete in the regional showcases against ecnl teams.   Hold a tournament where the 2 finalist get into champions league finals or some version of this that makes the most sense.  Yes, there are players that do get scholarships but it's a very small amount and that would also require the player to raise travel costs and travel almost daily to these clubs for practice.  In San Diego, you can either take the ride through traffic up north or down south.  During practice times, the traffic is at least between 45 minutes to 1 hour if you live in between Rebels and Surf, North San Diego County, or East County.  I see a lot of great teams with working parents that can't take 2 hours a day to drive their kids.


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## dad4 (Jul 23, 2021)

Soccer43 said:


> your perspective is a bit limited in understanding the ECNL structure and what is realistic.  It isn't meant for individual independent teams to come and go.  It is meant for the whole club to be in or out.  It would be a bit chaotic to have individual independent teams coming and going from the ECNL.  How would they decide which teams are in the ECNL and which are out on an annual basis?  Most ECNL clubs that I have been involved with all offer scholarships to players that are good but don't have the funds to pay for it.  Even the top clubs offer support to those top players that come from lower income families that can't afford the costs.  Also, rather than change the whole system and try to make a ridiculous power grab like creating the DA it would have been better to work with the existing systems, support what was there to improve the quality and for US Soccer to offer financial assistance to players that apply for scholarships so they can afford the existing system.  That would have been a more effective and less disruptive approach.


So, your defense of ECNL is to accuse others of not working within the system?

Interesting angle on it.  Certainly looks to me like ECNL was created, in part, to avoid the indignity that came with the previous existing system- back when you needed to win state cup games before you declare yourself to be elite.


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## STX (Jul 23, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> My local men’s high school team would beat any of those teams 10-0.


Not even close to correct. 

FC Dallas U15s may have beat the women's team in a scrimmage, but they were probably the best U15 team in the country.  Multiple youth national team players and future pros.  That FCD team would have beat your local high school team 30-0.

The US women would destroy most any random boy's high school team. 
A really good high school team could probably beat the USWNT and, obviously so would an elite U15 (and up) boys team.

Saying the level of play of the Uswnt is equivalent to a typical U15 boys team is very wrong. That FCD team was not a typical U15 team.


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## Carlsbad7 (Jul 24, 2021)

USWNT beat New Zealand 6-1

Morgan was benched for Carli Loyd and Press was benched for Rapinoe at the start.

Both Morgan and Press scored when brought off the bench later in the game.


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## lafalafa (Jul 24, 2021)

Nice to see the ladies bounce back with some goals!

Lessons From the Parents Who Raised the World’s Top Soccer Sisters








						Lessons From the Parents Who Raised the World’s Top Soccer Sisters
					

How Bob and Melissa Mewis guided daughters Kristie and Samantha to the U.S. women’s soccer team, the gold-medal favorite in the Tokyo Olympics.




					www.wsj.com
				




"Like many of the roughly 7 million American girls playing soccer at the time, the Mewises dreamed of playing for the U.S. team. Each had a 0.00031% chance of making the Tokyo Olympics roster."

*Invest and Sacrifice*
The high price of playing on competitive squads is the chief criticism of youth soccer in the U.S., with costs including club and tournament fees and increasingly distant travel. The Mewises spent between $10,000-$12,000 a year on the girls’ soccer starting in their mid-teens.


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## eastbaysoccer (Jul 24, 2021)

STX said:


> Not even close to correct.
> 
> FC Dallas U15s may have beat the women's team in a scrimmage, but they were probably the best U15 team in the country.  Multiple youth national team players and future pros.  That FCD team would have beat your local high school team 30-0.
> 
> ...


This is where you are dreaming.   I'm not talking about a bunch of 14 year old boys.  I'm talking about men.  17 year olds.  I've seen a varsity game and the pace and power on the field doesn't even compare to the USWNT.  I watched the U15 game.  Those were boys not men. The USWNT would never play men as they would end up in the hospital.   30-0?  You are crazy and delusional.  On my sons soccer team there were 3-4 D1 commits and other GDA players who would score at will.  You are hilarious.


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## BIGD (Jul 24, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Nice to see the ladies bounce back with some goals!
> 
> Lessons From the Parents Who Raised the World’s Top Soccer Sisters
> 
> ...


Surf cup should really be “The Best of the Best…That Can Afford It.”


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## tjinaz (Jul 24, 2021)

BIGD said:


> Surf cup should really be “The Best of the Best…That Can Afford It.”


Do you really think there are State league teams that could go to Surf Cup and win against the teams that made it in?  There are these "hidden gems" no one has ever heard of that would shock everyone?   I don't really think so.  You may want to cancel your Disney + cuz you seeing too many fairy tales.


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## BIGD (Jul 24, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Do you really think there are State league teams that could go to Surf Cup and win against the teams that made it in?  There are these "hidden gems" no one has ever heard of that would shock everyone?   I don't really think so.  You may want to cancel your Disney + cuz you seeing too many fairy tales.


No I don’t think that, that’s exactly the point I was making.  That’s the problem with pay to play.


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## outside! (Jul 26, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Do you really think there are State league teams that could go to Surf Cup and win against the teams that made it in?  There are these "hidden gems" no one has ever heard of that would shock everyone?   I don't really think so.  You may want to cancel your Disney + cuz you seeing too many fairy tales.


DD's non-ECNL team (graduated HS in 2018) beat Surf's ECNL team twice (for some reason they didn't play each other very often), including at Surf Cup when Surf was ECNL national champs. There are good teams out there that are not in ECNL. ECNL is a monopoly and has all the problems of a monopoly.


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## tjinaz (Jul 26, 2021)

BIGD said:


> No I don’t think that, that’s exactly the point I was making.


Well I will tell you this.. there are many many teams that can afford it and were denied.


outside! said:


> DD's non-ECNL team (graduated HS in 2018) beat Surf's ECNL team twice (for some reason they didn't play each other very often), including at Surf Cup when Surf was ECNL national champs. There are good teams out there that are not in ECNL. ECNL is a monopoly and has all the problems of a monopoly.


So your Daughter's team was DA?  Not sure that is the point here.  We are talking about non letter leagues pay to play leagues and teams.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 26, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Do you really think there are State league teams that could go to Surf Cup and win against the teams that made it in?  There are these "hidden gems" no one has ever heard of that would shock everyone?   I don't really think so.  You may want to cancel your Disney + cuz you seeing too many fairy tales.


 Yes!!  There are some very good teams out there that can beat most ECNL teams.    Money doesn’t buy natural talent (speed, quickness, soccer iq, grit).     Tons of girls  in Inner cities playing against boys at a very young age. Tons of them playing indoor and futsal with no joystick coaching.    On the boys side 100% top  inner city teams will beat ECNL teams.


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## what-happened (Jul 26, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Yes!!  There are some very good teams out there that can beat most ECNL teams.    Money doesn’t buy natural talent (speed, quickness, soccer iq, grit).     Tons of girls  in Inner cities playing against boys at a very young age. Tons of them playing indoor and futsal with no joystick coaching.    On the boys side 100% top  inner city teams will beat ECNL teams.


Certainly not an uncommon event.  I know in AZ, on the boys side, plenty of state league teams that are just as good, if not better than the ECNL/MLS teams.  Even when poached by  ECNL/MLS, those teams routinely replenish their teams.  Given the population of CA,  I would think this isn't an uncommon thing.

Letter league pay to play is squarely in the camp of those that can afford it and have college aspirations. Just the way it is.  The MLS is looking to break that cycle, casting their nets wider and not having a college play focus.  We will see if it lasts.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 26, 2021)

At one point, this thread was about the USWNT’s Olympic roster….lots of shade thrown when they lost their first match, not a peep since……

There are about 70 threads dedicated to how piss poor the US Youth system is and why letter leagues suck, etc….would be nice to get this thread back in track.

Next up Australia…


----------



## Emma (Jul 26, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> At one point, this thread was about the USWNT’s Olympic roster….lots of shade thrown when they lost their first match, not a peep since……
> 
> There are about 70 threads dedicated to how piss poor the US Youth system is and why letter leagues suck, etc….would be nice to get this thread back in track.
> 
> Next up Australia…


Haha - it is about the olympic roster.  Why couldn't we kill Sweden with all the girls we have in the US playing soccer? Our selection method is thru ECNL scouting events and therefore it should be open to other teams in order to pick from larger group of athletes, not just rich kids. 

Australia will be a closer game but we will definitely win.  The ladies still have something to prove after Sweden.  The loss to Sweden was good for their drive to win and will probably be the reason they will win Gold.  They won't be underestimating anyone anymore.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 26, 2021)

Emma said:


> Our selection method is thru ECNL scouting events and therefore it should be open to other teams in order to pick from larger group of athletes, not just rich kids.


That is a false statement…..


----------



## Yours in futbol (Jul 26, 2021)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> Yes!!  There are some very good teams out there that can beat most ECNL teams.    Money doesn’t buy natural talent (speed, quickness, soccer iq, grit).     Tons of girls  in Inner cities playing against boys at a very young age. Tons of them playing indoor and futsal with no joystick coaching.    On the boys side 100% top  inner city teams will beat ECNL teams.


On the boys side, definitely.  I've witnessed quality opponents over and over against my son's team.

On the girls side, not so much.  There are very few non-letter league teams that will beat the top 5, or even top 10, letter league teams.  I think youthsoccerrankings bears that out.  I suspect the reason is that there are far more boys than girls playing non-commercial soccer outside of the suburbs, but that's just a guess.


----------



## Emma (Jul 26, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> That is a false statement…..


The youth teams are selected thru this method.  D1 College scouts select most of their players thru this method.  The women's team is selected thru D1 college and NWSL.  NWSL selects their players thru D1 players.  Following the path backwards, it's the ECNL showcases and playoffs.


----------



## SoccerFan4Life (Jul 26, 2021)

Emma said:


> Haha - it is about the olympic roster.  Why couldn't we kill Sweden with all the girls we have in the US playing soccer? Our selection method is thru ECNL scouting events and therefore it should be open to other teams in order to pick from larger group of athletes, not just rich kids.
> 
> Australia will be a closer game but we will definitely win.  The ladies still have something to prove after Sweden.  The loss to Sweden was good for their drive to win and will probably be the reason they will win Gold.  They won't be underestimating anyone anymore.


 Right now,  Sweden, Brazil, Netherlands, look better than the USA.   Australia will be a battle and the USA could lose that game 1-2.   I’m hoping for a win.


----------



## outside! (Jul 26, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Well I will tell you this.. there are many many teams that can afford it and were denied.
> 
> So your Daughter's team was DA?  Not sure that is the point here.  We are talking about non letter leagues pay to play leagues and teams.


The accomplishments I mentioned were before GDA existed and were meant to point out that ECNL does not always have the best teams in an area.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 26, 2021)

Emma said:


> The youth teams are selected thru this method.  D1 College scouts select most of their players thru this method.  The women's team is selected thru D1 college and NWSL.  NWSL selects their players thru D1 players.  Following the path backwards, it's the ECNL showcases and playoffs.


Interesting perspective, but this has not been my experience or that of a few others I know.

Nevertheless, staying on topic. 

US did not put their best foot forward in my opinion, yet are still Favored to be one of the first counties to hold the World Cup trophy as well as win Gold in the Olympics in the same cycle. 

It’s not how you start the tournament, it’s how you finish!


----------



## tjinaz (Jul 26, 2021)

what-happened said:


> Certainly not an uncommon event.  I know in AZ, on the boys side, plenty of state league teams that are just as good, if not better than the ECNL/MLS teams.  Even when poached by  ECNL/MLS, those teams routinely replenish their teams.  Given the population of CA,  I would think this isn't an uncommon thing.
> 
> Letter league pay to play is squarely in the camp of those that can afford it and have college aspirations. Just the way it is.  The MLS is looking to break that cycle, casting their nets wider and not having a college play focus.  We will see if it lasts.


Boys side maybe.  Tuzos does seem to do that but.. they are seldom if ever top team at least not consistently.  They may beat a letter league team but it is the exception not the rule.   Girls side fat chance this is highly unlikely on the girls side.


----------



## what-happened (Jul 26, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Boys side maybe.  Tuzos does seem to do that but.. they are seldom if ever top team at least not consistently.  They may beat a letter league team but it is the exception not the rule.   Girls side fat chance this is highly unlikely on the girls side.


Never mentioned the girls at all, I should have been clearer.  Plenty of examples where Tuzos, FC Arizona(Classic), Excel, Valpo, others fielded as good if not better teams.  I know Valpo no longer exists.  Before DS became an MLS club, their boys top teams were routinely just as good.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Jul 27, 2021)

The USWNT tied their way to victory this morning against OZ 0-0


----------



## tjinaz (Jul 27, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> The USWNT tied their way to victory this morning against OZ 0-0


Not sure if either side really played that hard.  Both knew if they got a draw they would advance.


----------



## SoccerLocker (Jul 27, 2021)

Can anyone explain the tactics the USA tried to roll out?  We played a 4-3-3 with 2 6s to avoid getting countered and protecting against Sam Kerr.  Practical when you only need a tie to secure 2nd place.

But when we had the ball (37% possession - WTF?), we constantly pushed 2 mids forward and dropped our outside forwards into central midfield.  Not sure how it helps to push a 6 and 10 into forward and drop a 7 and 11 into midfield, especially when Australia was playing with 2 6s as well.  It was just a jumbled narrow mess and we gave up the flanks contstantly when we turned over the ball.  Led to a lot of service from wide areas, 1v1 last ditch tackles and a bunch of unnecessary corners.

We did not look sharp with our effort, touches or passes.  It's going to take a massive upgrade in effort and execution to beat a well drilled Netherlands side on Friday.  My guess would be a 4-4-2 to help protect our outside backs from getting overloaded, but I can't remember a time when Vlatko played that formation.


----------



## Sandypk (Jul 27, 2021)

SoccerLocker said:


> Can anyone explain the tactics the USA tried to roll out?  We played a 4-3-3 with 2 6s to avoid getting countered and protecting against Sam Kerr.  Practical when you only need a tie to secure 2nd place.
> 
> But when we had the ball (37% possession - WTF?), we constantly pushed 2 mids forward and dropped our outside forwards into central midfield.  Not sure how it helps to push a 6 and 10 into forward and drop a 7 and 11 into midfield, especially when Australia was playing with 2 6s as well.  It was just a jumbled narrow mess and we gave up the flanks contstantly when we turned over the ball.  Led to a lot of service from wide areas, 1v1 last ditch tackles and a bunch of unnecessary corners.
> 
> We did not look sharp with our effort, touches or passes.  It's going to take a massive upgrade in effort and execution to beat a well drilled Netherlands side on Friday.  My guess would be a 4-4-2 to help protect our outside backs from getting overloaded, but I can't remember a time when Vlatko played that formation.


They obviously played for the tie.  I hope this doesn’t effect their next game.  A very boring game to watch.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jul 27, 2021)

Sandypk said:


> They obviously played for the tie.  I hope this doesn’t effect their next game.  A very boring game to watch.


I fast forwarded the last minutes but prior to that fell asleep the previous 15 minutes.


----------



## oh canada (Jul 27, 2021)

Our ladies match up well against Netherlands.  They don't have the all-around pace that Sweden, Brasil and Australia have.  I predict 2-0 W for the social justice warriors.  And look for Rapinoe to change her hair color again.


----------



## Soccer43 (Jul 27, 2021)

Emma said:


> Australia will be a closer game but we will definitely win.


I guess not so definite


----------



## Emma (Jul 28, 2021)

Soccer43 said:


> I guess not so definite


Predictions are thoughts based on what you've seen and in this case hope for but damn, I was wrong.  Just for fun, it could be considered a win since we are moving on to quarterfinals. GO USWNT!


----------



## SoccerLocker (Jul 30, 2021)

USA on to the semis.  Great performances by Lynn Williams and Alyssa Naeher!!!


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 30, 2021)

SoccerLocker said:


> USA on to the semis.  Great performances by Lynn Williams and Alyssa Naeher!!!


Wasn’t pretty but got the job done. Anyone have a running count on how many goals we’ve had called back for offside?  I know of 7.


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Jul 30, 2021)

SoccerLocker said:


> USA on to the semis.  Great performances by Lynn Williams and Alyssa Naeher!!!


Great to see Willians have that goal scoring success!


----------



## Ellejustus (Jul 30, 2021)

Go America!!!


----------



## SoccerLocker (Jul 30, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Wasn’t pretty but got the job done. Anyone have a running count on how many goals we’ve had called back for offside?  I know of 7.


9... 9 offside goals chalked off, and all correctly.


----------



## eastbaysoccer (Jul 30, 2021)

In the next 5 years the world will pass WNT.  The coaching and development is just WAY better in other countries.  But will will enjoy it while it lasts


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 30, 2021)

eastbaysoccer said:


> In the next 5 years the world will pass WNT.  The coaching and development is just WAY better in other countries.  But will will enjoy it while it lasts


Going on about 10 years  of hearing people saying that, of course sooner or later it will happen and it should. It’s good for the game.


----------



## oh canada (Jul 30, 2021)

that's three games of bad soccer by the US.  A couple good plays, but way too much turning ball over and lackluster effort.  Don't let Rapinoe take any more corners please.  Plenty of other options.  I don't know what to think about this team any more.  At least if they lose the next game it will be to my native homies.  2-0 US for a rematch vs. Sweden in the Final.

Then, win or lose, we should respectfully show all but Ertz, Lavelle, Sam Mewis and Horan the exit.  Thank them for their service, and bring in the next generation of ballers.


----------



## Brav520 (Jul 30, 2021)

I thought Rapinoe was pretty terrible , numerous poor passes. But then she bangs in a PK in a pressure situation, so good for her


----------



## what-happened (Jul 30, 2021)

oh canada said:


> that's three games of bad soccer by the US.  A couple good plays, but way too much turning ball over and lackluster effort.  Don't let Rapinoe take any more corners please.  Plenty of other options.  I don't know what to think about this team any more.  At least if they lose the next game it will be to my native homies.  2-0 US for a rematch vs. Sweden in the Final.
> 
> *Then, win or lose, we should respectfully show all but Ertz, Lavelle, Sam Mewis and Horan the exit.  Thank them for their service, and bring in the next generation of ballers*.


Can't agree more.  I think it's clear this is the strategy from the beginning.  Pin your hopes on experience and tactical substitutes to just get you by for each game.  I think they scratch out a win against Canada but lose in a close match to Sweden.

They certainly need to tighten up their soccer.  I don't mind watching games that don't have a predetermined outcome.  Canada will come out of the gate hard.  Will make for a fun game.


----------



## Brav520 (Jul 30, 2021)

I do think there was a lot of pressure to bring in the name brands, the players that have " star power". Whether that be from NBC or US soccer. 

Without a track star, swimming star the only real draw for US Olympic fans were Biles, and this woman's team . Maybe US basketball


----------



## BIGD (Jul 30, 2021)

Brav520 said:


> I do think there was a lot of pressure to bring in the name brands, the players that have " star power". Whether that be from NBC or US soccer.
> 
> Without a track star, swimming star the only real draw for US Olympic fans were Biles, and this woman's team . Maybe US basketball


It just not the same as when I was a kid.  I think the whole Olympic movement may have outlived its usefulness.


----------



## espola (Jul 30, 2021)

what-happened said:


> Can't agree more.  I think it's clear this is the strategy from the beginning.  Pin your hopes on experience and tactical substitutes to just get you by for each game.  I think they scratch out a win against Canada but lose in a close match to Sweden.
> 
> They certainly need to tighten up their soccer.  I don't mind watching games that don't have a predetermined outcome.  Canada will come out of the gate hard.  Will make for a fun game.


A drawn game that results in a PK session is pre-determined?  How does that work?


----------



## what-happened (Jul 30, 2021)

espola said:


> A drawn game that results in a PK session is pre-determined?  How does that work?


yea, because that's what I said.  Most games the US has played over the last year or so have been predetermined - like you knew they were going to win.  I know you know that.  But I also know that you enjoy  being obtuse.


----------



## SoccerLocker (Jul 30, 2021)

Brav520 said:


> I thought Rapinoe was pretty terrible , numerous poor passes. But then she bangs in a PK in a pressure situation, so good for her


She has rightly taken a lot of criticism from this game.  From not tracking back and isolating Crystal Dunn 2v1 a bunch to her 15 misplayed passes and ridiculously poor free kicks.  When Grant Wahl flames you on Twitter, you know there's a problem...


----------



## Kicker4Life (Jul 30, 2021)

oh canada said:


> Then, win or lose, we should respectfully show all but Ertz, Lavelle, Sam Mewis and Horan the exit.  Thank them for their service, and bring in the next generation of ballers.


Press and Dunn can stay too…..


----------



## Brav520 (Jul 30, 2021)

SoccerLocker said:


> She has rightly taken a lot of criticism from this game.  From not tracking back and isolating Crystal Dunn 2v1 a bunch to her 15 misplayed passes and ridiculously poor free kicks.  When Grant Wahl flames you on Twitter, you know there's a problem...
> 
> View attachment 11188


yep, Grant Wahl is Essentially the PR person for USMNT


----------



## tjinaz (Jul 30, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Press and Dunn can stay too…..


I will say in the games leading up to the Olympics it looked like Press had been doing a lot of work to get better and it was paying off.  This tournament she really hasn't shown as bright.  Dunn is just good.  Versatile and tenacious.  If you look at the amount of ground she covers and her decisions she is a real asset.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jul 30, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> I will say in the games leading up to the Olympics it looked like Press had been doing a lot of work to get better and it was paying off.  This tournament she really hasn't shown as bright.  Dunn is just good.  Versatile and tenacious.  If you look at the amount of ground she covers and her decisions she is a real asset.


Watch Dunn defensively. She gives her opponents to much space. Specifically Sweden and Holland built their attack in the US half from her position.


----------



## oh canada (Jul 30, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Press and Dunn can stay too…..


gotta disagree with you there...Press is good against cupcake opponents.  Good teams, her lack of skill comes out.  She's fast and that's about it.  Similar to Morgan.  Dunn can stay on the team if they play her in her proper position.  She's never been comfortable at defense.

Maybe US Soccer should just find the 8 best PK takers in the country and start them?

Canada doesn't have the offensive fire power to beat USA.  They did USA a favor beating Brasil who would have been a much more dangerous matchup against the Americans.  I hope they high press USA and just go for the win.  If they get gassed in the 75th minute, oh well, go down swinging.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Jul 30, 2021)

oh canada said:


> gotta disagree with you there...Press is good against cupcake opponents.  Good teams, her lack of skill comes out.  She's fast and that's about it.  Similar to Morgan.  Dunn can stay on the team if they play her in her proper position.  She's never been comfortable at defense.
> 
> Maybe US Soccer should just find the 8 best PK takers in the country and start them?
> 
> Canada doesn't have the offensive fire power to beat USA.  They did USA a favor beating Brasil who would have been a much more dangerous matchup against the Americans.  I hope they high press USA and just go for the win.  If they get gassed in the 75th minute, oh well, go down swinging.


I don’t disagree with you on some of your points. But, your Canadian. Therefore I leave you with this Dave McKenzie quote, “The power of the force has stopped you, you hosers.’


----------



## oh canada (Aug 1, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> I don’t disagree with you on some of your points. But, your Canadian. Therefore I leave you with this Dave McKenzie quote, “The power of the force has stopped you, you hosers.’


From another famous Canadian...

"I'm on a roll, like Cottonelle."  --Drake


----------



## crush (Aug 2, 2021)

Oh Canada has bragging right today.  Great win at the last minute.  I don;t have TV but I heard they got out played and out shot but soccer is soccer.  I want to thank all the woman who worked hard through all the crap that's in our country right now, divided.  I pray for peace and I hope soccer can be freed from politics some day.


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## tjinaz (Aug 2, 2021)

oh canada said:


> From another famous Canadian...
> 
> "I'm on a roll, like Cottonelle."  --Drake


And roll you did.  Good game Canada.

Hopefully this leads to a changing of the guard for USWNT.


----------



## Desert Hound (Aug 2, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> And roll you did.  Good game Canada.
> 
> Hopefully this leads to a changing of the guard for USWNT.


It is time for a changing of the guard. 

Maybe get good players who don't kneel during the national anthem. Enough woke BS. 

Get back to playing good soccer.


----------



## oh canada (Aug 2, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> And roll you did.  Good game Canada.
> 
> Hopefully this leads to a changing of the guard for USWNT.


About the only "rolling" in that game by the Canadians was the player falling in the penalty box.  It was a crapper on both sides.  Canada couldn't connect passes and barely got across the centreline in the second half, US couldn't create nor finish, and I couldn't watch.  I swear I said to myself at least 5x, "I've got better things to be doing this morning." Thank goodness for the fast forward button.

After this uninspired, technically deficient, uncreative olympics for the uswnt, it is clear to anyone with a modicum of soccer knowledge that a complete house cleaning is in order.  This team has jumped the proverbial shark and any player with a first digit of 3 in their age should be shown the exit to a future of helping the next gen of female American ballers.  If most of the same, tired, players are on the next team, then you know that personnel decisions are actually made by Nike and the other private interests that stand to profit from the propping up of longterm invested personalities, not the best players in the land.

USWNT should be playing the next WC with Teslas, not Saturns.


----------



## Willie (Aug 2, 2021)

oh canada said:


> About the only "rolling" in that game by the Canadians was the player falling in the penalty box.  It was a crapper on both sides.  Canada couldn't connect passes and barely got across the centreline in the second half, US couldn't create nor finish, and I couldn't watch.  I swear I said to myself at least 5x, "I've got better things to be doing this morning." Thank goodness for the fast forward button.
> 
> After this uninspired, technically deficient, uncreative olympics for the uswnt, it is clear to anyone with a modicum of soccer knowledge that a complete house cleaning is in order.  This team has jumped the proverbial shark and any player with a first digit of 3 in their age should be shown the exit to a future of helping the next gen of female American ballers.  If most of the same, tired, players are on the next team, then you know that personnel decisions are actually made by Nike and the other private interests that stand to profit from the propping up of longterm invested personalities, not the best players in the land.
> 
> USWNT should be playing the next WC with Teslas, not Saturns.


What a joke of a team. They were garbage the entire tournament and do not belong in a Gold Medal match. It is time to kick them to the curb and start fresh.


----------



## paytoplay (Aug 2, 2021)

Poor decision and bad gamble to bring old players to Tokyo like Morgan, Heath and Lloyd. As predicted, they were useless. Accountability requires firing the coach and US Soccer administration. And if we don’t have young players in the pipeline, ready to go, ready to sub in for underperformers like Press and Lavelle, then this whole pay to play youth soccer system that we all take part in is a total fraud.


----------



## crush (Aug 2, 2021)

paytoplay said:


> Poor decision and bad gamble to bring old players to Tokyo like Morgan, Heath and Lloyd. As predicted, they were useless. Accountability requires firing the coach and US Soccer administration. And if we don’t have young players in the pipeline, ready to go, ready to sub in for underperformers like Press and Lavelle, then this whole *pay to play youth soccer system that we all take part in is a total fraud.*


I would suggest the top clubs and anyone who cares about the sport and females to interview the class of 2022 and younger to see how they feel about playing soccer these days.  We were all told the "world is watching" so we have to have pay to play for the rich to have access and for the the girls who are true Unicorns. The pressure we put on 7th & 8th graders was and is insane.  I sure hope we ALL learn from past mistakes and never let cheaters take over a sport like soccer.  The pressure to be the best soccer player, the best student, the best human ((be perfect)), take a political stand for the man and take a knee or stand and that right there lies the problem.  Take the jab or no sport for you.  Wear a mask all day so you can continue playing is not mentally healthy for anyone either.  F it, right?  How could I give sound advise and tell parents to enroll your stud in youth soccer with a clear conscious?  On top of all that, many of the 2022s who took a healthy approach and be patient with this important decision in their young life have very little spots open because of you know what.  Would of, could have and I'm glad I never took the bait rings true today.


----------



## Desert Hound (Aug 2, 2021)

paytoplay said:


> Poor decision and bad gamble to bring old players to Tokyo like Morgan, Heath and Lloyd. As predicted, they were useless. Accountability requires firing the coach and US Soccer administration. And if we don’t have young players in the pipeline, ready to go, ready to sub in for underperformers like Press and Lavelle, then this whole pay to play youth soccer system that we all take part in is a total fraud.


It may be that due to "ratings", cash etc US Soccer found it hard to not play stars past their prime. After all...they were still winning. 

Now that they had a poor performance, there will be little pushback in terms of cleaning house. 

In a sense, this outing at the Olympics made it a lot easier to move on with fresh blood.


----------



## LB Mom 78 (Aug 2, 2021)

paytoplay said:


> Poor decision and bad gamble to bring old players to Tokyo like Morgan, Heath and Lloyd. As predicted, they were useless. Accountability requires firing the coach and US Soccer administration. And if we don’t have young players in the pipeline, ready to go, ready to sub in for underperformers like Press and Lavelle, then this whole pay to play youth soccer system that we all take part in is a total fraud.


They lost to 15 year olds. I am confident other top Women’s teams would have likely not lost to a group of local children.


----------



## Kicker4Life (Aug 2, 2021)

LB Mom 78 said:


> They lost to 15 year olds. I am confident other top Women’s teams would have likely not lost to a group of local children.


And have won a World Cup since that game…..How prolific was your soccer career?


----------



## Brav520 (Aug 2, 2021)

LB Mom 78 said:


> They lost to 15 year olds. I am confident other top Women’s teams would have likely not lost to a group of local children.


I am confident that every Woman's team across the world would have lost to one of the best U15 teams in the country 

20-25 years ago , when Chula Vista was the site of training the US teams, the woman used to scrimmage my brother U14 Nomads team. His team was probably a top 5-10ish team in the country. Those were very competitive games. 

Looks like progression to me , since the woman have now had to move up to U15 to find the proper competition


----------



## SoccerLocker (Aug 2, 2021)

The US looked tight all tournament long.  Trouble connecting simple passes in the 4-3-3 they routinely play.  It hasn't clicked under Vlatko. Rigid system and tactical obsession that takes away the free flowing play the US plays at their best.  They are definitely due some criticism, as he was their pick to replace the unliked (but only coach to win 2 WWCs) Jill Ellis.

It was perfect timing for them to be the first team to win the WC and Olympics in successive cycles.  They faced a team they hadn't lost to in 20 years, and came up just short.  More shots and Xg with Canada only really threatening on the PK.  PK was given up by youngest (22) player on the pitch for the US, so not sure all youngsters would have fared better.

Either way, a clean out always comes after the Olympics.  Just interesting to see if Vlatko keeps his job.  Jill at least had a WC under her belt when they lost in 2016.


----------



## timbuck (Aug 2, 2021)

I watched the men play in the Gold Cup final last night.  It was sloppy as heck - But the players battled with everything they had.  Running down balls.  Tactical fouls.  Playing through fatigue.
Then I took a nap to try and stay awake for the womens game.
That game was terrible to watch.  Players seemed uninterested to go after a ball that wasn't a perfect pass.  I'm not quite sure what our game plan was.  Seems we wanted to get the ball wide and whip in crosses whether we had a player(s) ready for it or not.  And once we lost the ball in the attacking third, our front 3 didn't want to press from behind. (Alex and Tobin-- talking about you).  Our midfield pressed like mad, but didn't have much help.

It will be fun to see how our young players develop on an international stage over the next few years.  It's too bad we couldn't send Carli, Alex, Megan, etc off with a gold medal.


----------



## warrior49 (Aug 2, 2021)

Maybe they can protest the loss


----------



## LB Mom 78 (Aug 2, 2021)

Brav520 said:


> I am confident that every Woman's team across the world would have lost to one of the best U15 teams in the country
> 
> 20-25 years ago , when Chula Vista was the site of training the US teams, the woman used to scrimmage my brother U14 Nomads team. His team was probably a top 5-10ish team in the country. Those were very competitive games.
> 
> Looks like progression to me , since the woman have now had to move up to U15 to find the proper competition


Unfortunately the 15 year olds demolished them. Maybe they should move down to the local 12 year old boys to find the proper competition.


----------



## Desert Hound (Aug 2, 2021)

Isn't the Canada win almost a win for the US? 

I kind of consider Canada to be our 51st state ;0


----------



## Brav520 (Aug 2, 2021)

LB Mom 78 said:


> Unfortunately the 15 year olds demolished them. Maybe they should move down to the local 12 year old boys to find the proper competition.


yeah, if they were playing one of the top male  academies in Europe Im sure they would have to move down to U13ish


----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 4, 2021)

Desert Hound said:


> It is time for a changing of the guard.
> 
> Maybe get good players who don't kneel during the national anthem. Enough woke BS.
> 
> Get back to playing good soccer.


There is no way the racist pro-pig players whom you prefer will ever match the unprecedented run by the players who kept you foaming at the mouth the last eight years.


----------



## dad4 (Aug 4, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> There is no way the racist pro-pig players whom you prefer will ever match the unprecedented run by the players who kept you foaming at the mouth the last eight years.


Off topic exists.  If you want to argue about rainbow jersey numbers, do it there.


----------



## dad4 (Aug 4, 2021)

Present the lifetime achievement awards after the bronze medal game.

Then clean house.  Give the 20-25 year olds some starts so we can field an experienced team that doesn’t get tired after 30 minutes.


----------



## warrior49 (Aug 4, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Off topic exists.  If you want to argue about rainbow jersey numbers, do it there.


<Megan has joined the chat>


----------



## Desert Hound (Aug 4, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> There is no way the racist pro-pig players whom you prefer will ever match the unprecedented run by the players who kept you foaming at the mouth the last eight years.


You are an idiot.


----------



## GT45 (Aug 4, 2021)

LB Mom 78 said:


> Unfortunately the 15 year olds demolished them. Maybe they should move down to the local 12 year old boys to find the proper competition.


What is your obsession with this? They are not playing boys and mens teams. Get over it. It is irrelevant.


----------



## Desert Hound (Aug 4, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> There is no way the racist pro-pig players whom you prefer will ever match the unprecedented run by the players who kept you foaming at the mouth the last eight years.


Is this one of the racists you refer to?


----------



## tjinaz (Aug 4, 2021)

GT45 said:


> What is your obsession with this? They are not playing boys and mens teams. Get over it. It is irrelevant.


I think she is looking to represent the FC Dallas U-15 boys team in their lawsuit for equal pay.


----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 5, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Off topic exists.  If you want to argue about rainbow jersey numbers, do it there.


You and your friends seem perfectly fine with off topic conversations taking place here so long as they fit an anti-American hatred of the WNT.  All of these seditionists cheering against the WNT is priceless. So why exactly is it that you're fine with off topic conversations so long as you support them, but can't you handle someone who disagrees? Are you really such a soft and fragile snowflake?


----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 5, 2021)

Desert Hound said:


> Is this one of the racists you refer to?
> 
> View attachment 11267


I get it that anti-American people like yourself have no choice but to use misleading soundbites and memes to further their anti-American agenda and opposition to civil rights.  But when you don't have facts on your side, that is what you need to do. In reality, we know your meme is a lie and that she was really standing because she was terrified what the US would do to a black woman who dared to kneel.  You can actually see it in her eyes, so thanks for that.

Thanks also for showing us exactly why Crystal Dunn was right to be terrified, which is that racist un-American asses would have treated her even worse than the online campaign of abuse, threats and intimidation that Rapinoe has endured and which would never stop - not even six years, two world cup victories and 44 games in a row without a loss, after she first knelt.  So, yeah, Dunn stood for the national anthem. She did so because she was rightfully terrified about how "patriots" like yourself would treat her for supporting civil rights and for asserting the most American of her rights, the First Amendment.









						Dunn 'scared' to join Rapinoe in kneeling protest
					

Crystal Dunn said she was "scared" to kneel alongside Megan Rapinoe when her teammate protested racism and police brutality back in 2016.




					www.espn.com


----------



## what-happened (Aug 5, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> You and your friends seem perfectly fine with off topic conversations taking place here so long as they fit an anti-American hatred of the WNT.  All of these seditionists cheering against the WNT is priceless. So why exactly is it that you're fine with off topic conversations so long as you support them, but can't you handle someone who disagrees? Are you really such a soft and fragile snowflake?


in other news, it's definitely time for a changing of the guard for the WMNT.  It was a great run.  Time to exit stage left and continue their careers, whatever that may entail.  Plenty of good sponsor $$$ available for those that want it.


----------



## what-happened (Aug 5, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> I get it that anti-American people like yourself have no choice but to use misleading soundbites and memes to further their anti-American agenda and opposition to civil rights.  But when you don't have facts on your side, that is what you need to do. In reality, we know your meme is a lie and that she was really standing because she was terrified what the US would do to a black woman who dared to kneel.  You can actually see it in her eyes, so thanks for that.
> 
> Thanks also for showing us exactly why Crystal Dunn was right to be terrified, which is that racist un-American asses would have treated her even worse than the online campaign of abuse, threats and intimidation that Rapinoe has endured and which would never stop - not even six years, two world cup victories and 44 games in a row without a loss, after she first knelt.  So, yeah, Dunn stood for the national anthem. She did so because she was rightfully terrified about how "patriots" like yourself would treat her for supporting civil rights and for asserting the most American of her rights, the First Amendment.
> 
> ...


----------



## what-happened (Aug 5, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> I get it that anti-American people like yourself have no choice but to use misleading soundbites and memes to further their anti-American agenda and opposition to civil rights.  But when you don't have facts on your side, that is what you need to do. In reality, we know your meme is a lie and that she was really standing because she was terrified what the US would do to a black woman who dared to kneel.  You can actually see it in her eyes, so thanks for that.
> 
> Thanks also for showing us exactly why Crystal Dunn was right to be terrified, which is that racist un-American asses would have treated her even worse than the online campaign of abuse, threats and intimidation that Rapinoe has endured and which would never stop - not even six years, two world cup victories and 44 games in a row without a loss, after she first knelt.  So, yeah, Dunn stood for the national anthem. She did so because she was rightfully terrified about how "patriots" like yourself would treat her for supporting civil rights and for asserting the most American of her rights, the First Amendment.
> 
> ...


So much fluff here...better for you to take your fluff to the fluffy section in off topic.


----------



## SoccerLocker (Aug 5, 2021)

Even with playing some of the most head scratching soccer, congrats to the ladies for the bronze medal!  Looks good in the cabinet:


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 5, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> You and your friends seem perfectly fine with off topic conversations taking place here so long as they fit an anti-American hatred of the WNT.  All of these seditionists cheering against the WNT is priceless. So why exactly is it that you're fine with off topic conversations so long as you support them, but can't you handle someone who disagrees? Are you really such a soft and fragile snowflake?


Just helping here but dad4 made this suggestion because when threads go in this direction Dominic gives a poster a warning and then bans them if they continue to derail a thread in this manner. That's why Dominic created the off topic. Some prominent but controversial posters (Sheriff Joe, The Outlaw and EOTL) have been banned.


----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 5, 2021)

what-happened said:


> So much fluff here...better for you to take your fluff to the fluffy section in off topic.


You don't consider a meme that intentionally misrepresents the beliefs and actions of a black woman to be inappropriate "fluff"?  Just her actual words and beliefs make you angry and constitute "fluff"?  I see.


----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 5, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Just helping here but dad4 made this suggestion because when threads go in this direction Dominic gives a poster a warning and then bans them if they continue to derail a thread in this manner. That's why Dominic created the off topic. Some prominent but controversial posters (Sheriff Joe, The Outlaw and EOTL) have been banned.


Wouldn't it be nice?  I have no desire to fight this fight and would prefer to just read about soccer.  The problem is that there are obviously people here who refuse to comply, and who take a lot of pleasure injecting their political beliefs into this and other soccer threads. They seem to think that it's perfectly fine to insert their politics into this as their basis to constantly make personal attacks against the players.  Unfortunately, this website always seems to slip back into the same cesspool of douches doing their thing. 

In the spirit of disclosure, I did ask Dominic to do something before I eventually said anything, with no response.  Presumably he hadn't gotten around to it or didn't see it yet.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 5, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> Wouldn't it be nice?  I have no desire to fight this fight and would prefer to just read about soccer.  The problem is that there are obviously people here who refuse to comply, and who take a lot of pleasure injecting their political beliefs into this and other soccer threads. They seem to think that it's perfectly fine to insert their politics into this as their basis to constantly make personal attacks against the players.  Unfortunately, this website always seems to slip back into the same cesspool of douches doing their thing.
> 
> In the spirit of disclosure, I did ask Dominic to do something before I eventually said anything, with no response.  Presumably he hadn't gotten around to it or didn't see it yet.


Dominic has a full time job on top of overseeing this site.


----------



## El Clasico (Aug 5, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> Wouldn't it be nice?  I have no desire to fight this fight and would prefer to just read about soccer.  The problem is that there are obviously people here who refuse to comply, and who take a lot of pleasure injecting their political beliefs into this and other soccer threads. They seem to think that it's perfectly fine to insert their politics into this as their basis to constantly make personal attacks against the players.  Unfortunately, this website always seems to slip back into the same cesspool of douches doing their thing.
> 
> In the spirit of disclosure, I did ask Dominic to do something before I eventually said anything, with no response.  Presumably he hadn't gotten around to it or didn't see it yet.


Is EOTL back under a new avatar?


----------



## what-happened (Aug 5, 2021)

El Clasico said:


> Is EOTL back under a new avatar?


----------



## what-happened (Aug 5, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> You don't consider a meme that intentionally misrepresents the beliefs and actions of a black woman to be inappropriate "fluff"?  Just her actual words and beliefs make you angry and constitute "fluff"?  I see.


What I consider or don't consider is not the point.  I could care less of what you think I think.  You have the right to disagree with whatever someone posts on here.  I have the right to have an opinion of the crap that you post on here.  It's up to you if you want to respond.  

The WMNT had a great run...It's now time for many of those players to step aside.  There are fans that supported their on field/off field actions, and there are some that didn't.  Doesn't make anyone racist.  Having a different opinion on process and expression doesn't make anyone racist.


----------



## what-happened (Aug 5, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> Wouldn't it be nice?  I have no desire to fight this fight and would prefer to just read about soccer.  The problem is that there are obviously people here who refuse to comply, and who take a lot of pleasure injecting their political beliefs into this and other soccer threads. They seem to think that it's perfectly fine to insert their politics into this as their basis to constantly make personal attacks against the players.  Unfortunately, this website always seems to slip back into the same cesspool of douches doing their thing.
> 
> In the spirit of disclosure, I did ask Dominic to do something before I eventually said anything, with no response.  Presumably he hadn't gotten around to it or didn't see it yet.


ahhh, part of the nanny state.


----------



## espola (Aug 5, 2021)

what-happened said:


> What I consider or don't consider is not the point.  I could care less of what you think I think.  You have the right to disagree with whatever someone posts on here.  I have the right to have an opinion of the crap that you post on here.  It's up to you if you want to respond.
> 
> The WMNT had a great run...It's now time for many of those players to step aside.  There are fans that supported their on field/off field actions, and there are some that didn't.  Doesn't make anyone racist.  Having a different opinion on process and expression doesn't make anyone racist.


How about if it is a racist opinion?


----------



## espola (Aug 5, 2021)

El Clasico said:


> Is EOTL back under a new avatar?


Interesting question -- the "what-happened" character first appeared in May.  When was EOTL banned?


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 5, 2021)

espola said:


> Interesting question -- the "what-happened" character first appeared in May.  When was EOTL banned?


On April 1. Commonly known as April Fools Day.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 6, 2021)

Decent article that touches upon comments already posted on this thread. Guess they read our posts.








						How did the USWNT fall short of Olympic gold? Rating the many theories
					

Why did the USWNT struggle at the Olympics? Not even the players and staff seem to know. We've rounded up the main theories and graded their impact.




					www.espn.com


----------



## what-happened (Aug 6, 2021)

espola said:


> Interesting question -- the "what-happened" character first appeared in May.  When was EOTL banned?


I like your use of the word "character".  Definitely fits your persona.


----------



## SoccerLocker (Aug 6, 2021)

Canada wins gold without scoring 1 goal from open play in the final 2 games, and 6 goals total in 6 games.  Maybe the Olympic schedule (6 games in 18 days) rewards a bunker and counter style?

In any event, congrats to Canada!


----------



## Dubs (Aug 6, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Decent article that touches upon comments already posted on this thread. Guess they read our posts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good article.  Multiple factors involved that cannot be dismissed.


----------



## Emma (Aug 6, 2021)

SoccerLocker said:


> Canada wins gold without scoring 1 goal from open play in the final 2 games, and 6 goals total in 6 games.  Maybe the Olympic schedule (6 games in 18 days) rewards a bunker and counter style?
> 
> In any event, congrats to Canada!


They learned a lot from Sweden in the last Olympics.  Soccer would be so much better if we gave more fouls out and started removing players.  It's very boring to watch these types of games.


----------



## dad4 (Aug 6, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Decent article that touches upon comments already posted on this thread. Guess they read our posts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good article, but sort of odd reasoning.

They discount the "too old" theory. Then they go on to say "too much rotation"- as though the heavy rotation were not a response to the age of the players.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 6, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Good article, but sort of odd reasoning.
> 
> They discount the "too old" theory. Then they go on to say "too much rotation"- as though the heavy rotation were not a response to the age of the players.


The article says it’s just theories that floated around. The biggest point is that Andonovski was not sure why the team performed below expectation. I’m calling BS.


----------



## espola (Aug 6, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Good article, but sort of odd reasoning.
> 
> They discount the "too old" theory. Then they go on to say "too much rotation"- as though the heavy rotation were not a response to the age of the players.


Was it?


----------



## espola (Aug 6, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> The article says it’s just theories that floated around. The biggest point is that Andonovski was not sure why the team performed below expectation. I’m calling BS.


I have a theory -- they didn't score enough goals.


----------



## Yours in futbol (Aug 6, 2021)

The question is .. how could Canada have possibly won the Gold when its team is infested with wokie wokicity woke-ness?  Reading through the observations in this thread and the strategic futbol analysis by our former President, it just doesn't add up!


----------



## espola (Aug 6, 2021)

Yours in futbol said:


> The question is .. how could Canada have possibly won the Gold when its team is infested with wokie wokicity woke-ness?  Reading through the observations in this thread and the strategic futbol analysis by our former President, it just doesn't add up!


The Swedish team, in contrast, looked like they could have been recruited from a single family reunion.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 6, 2021)

espola said:


> The Swedish team, in contrast, looked like they could have been recruited from a single family reunion.


That’s a really good looking family.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 6, 2021)

espola said:


> I have a theory -- they didn't score enough goals.


That’s not a theory. It’s just a fact. Get it right next time.


----------



## tjinaz (Aug 6, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Good article, but sort of odd reasoning.
> 
> They discount the "too old" theory. Then they go on to say "too much rotation"- as though the heavy rotation were not a response to the age of the players.


Writer is from the Guardian.. wouldn't dare write anything bad about her darlings.


----------



## watfly (Aug 6, 2021)

dad4 said:


> Good article, but sort of odd reasoning.
> 
> They discount the "too old" theory. Then they go on to say "too much rotation"- as though the heavy rotation were not a response to the age of the players.


Also she gives Complacency a consideration but gives a zero for politics.  I don't care what you think of the protests, the fact they made a effort to protest meant their focus wasn't 100% on soccer.  That's a distraction to the goal at hand.  John Carlos and Tommie Smith at least waited until their competition was over.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 6, 2021)

watfly said:


> Also she gives Complacency a consideration but gives a zero for politics.  I don't care what you think of the protests, the fact they made a effort to protest meant their focus wasn't 100% on soccer.  That's a distraction to the goal at hand.  John Carlos and Tommie Smith at least waited until their competition was over.


what did Tommy Smith say?


----------



## Kicker4Life (Aug 6, 2021)

To me this just proves that we really didn’t care about the Olympics, we wanted to give the “girls” a farewell tour.  A Gold would have just been an exclamation point to the end of a few careers. 

Give up the protest, woke BS and just call it want it is. The rest is all just partisan spin.

The reality…our 2 losses came to the Gold and Silver medal teams.  We’ve lost 2 out of 49 games…….


----------



## watfly (Aug 6, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> what did Tommy Smith say?


He didn't need to say much, he was the first athlete to break 20 seconds in the 200.  53 years later and his time would have put him 4th in this week's Olympic race.  That's insane.


----------



## oh canada (Aug 6, 2021)

SoccerLocker said:


> Canada wins gold without scoring 1 goal from open play in the final 2 games, and 6 goals total in 6 games.  Maybe the Olympic schedule (6 games in 18 days) rewards a bunker and counter style?
> 
> In any event, congrats to Canada!


Best PK'ers in the World!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Now I hope Sinclair calls it quits while on top.  Canada has its own house cleaning to do.  I was surprised they beat USA.  Utterly shocked they defeated Sweden.  Just wow.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 7, 2021)

watfly said:


> He didn't need to say much, he was the first athlete to break 20 seconds in the 200.  53 years later and his time would have put him 4th in this week's Olympic race.  That's insane.


Got it. Yes impressive. Especially when athletes and training methods are at an all time high. For whatever reason I thought you meant this TS. And that he made a comment about the women’s game. My fault.


----------



## watfly (Aug 7, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Got it. Yes impressive. Especially when athletes and training methods are at an all time high. For whatever reason I thought you meant this TS. And that he made a comment about the women’s game. My fault.
> View attachment 11310


Grumpy pundit, Tommy Smyth.  Got it.


----------



## oh canada (Aug 7, 2021)

updated the profile image!


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 7, 2021)

oh canada said:


> updated the profile image!


Is that considered a makeover?


----------



## espola (Aug 9, 2021)




----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 10, 2021)

watfly said:


> Also she gives Complacency a consideration but gives a zero for politics.  I don't care what you think of the protests, the fact they made a effort to protest meant their focus wasn't 100% on soccer.  That's a distraction to the goal at hand.  John Carlos and Tommie Smith at least waited until their competition was over.


The WNT won two WCs protesting for civil rights and it had no impact then, just as it did not at the Olympics. They got bronze for the same reason Alyson Felix did, which is that age eventually catches up to even the greatest athletes in the history of their respective sports.  Or is Alyson Felix also a 35 year old uppity woman who would have won gold in the 400m if only she hasn't been distracted protesting against gender inequality?

Your statement about Carlos and Smith is also inaccurate. They were founding members of the Olympic Project for Human Rights before the '68 Games and publicly advocated for its boycott.  When that didn't happen, they made clear in advance they would stage a protest if they won medals. They didn't wait until they won medals to protest, you only think that because of your ignorance. Honestly, it is is pretty offensive to use this kind of revisionist history and Carlos and Smith in particular, both of whom have fully supported kneeling, to rationalize your opposition to things they hold so dearly. 

Funny story. In 1906, Irishman Peter O'Conner participated in the Olympics despite British and Olympic committee refusing to recognize Ireland as a separate entity. When he won silver (surely he would have won gold if he'd just been 100% focused on being a complacent little British citizen right?), the Olympic committee raised the British flag at the ceremony. He then climbed the flag pole and started waving the Irish flag around in protest. I guarantee every racist and sexist here considers Pete O's actions to be heroic, despite being an uppity Olympian supporting a cause that resulted in rioting and an insurrection that ultimately led to thousands of deaths. Why is that? Why is Pete O', a white guy who disrespects the flag a hero, but a few women who kneel (and not even at the Olympics or even in support of insurrection) are despicable traitors?  It is because of things people don't want to admit about themselves.


----------



## watfly (Aug 10, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> The WNT won two WCs protesting for civil rights and it had no impact then, just as it did not at the Olympics. They got bronze for the same reason Alyson Felix did, which is that age eventually catches up to even the greatest athletes in the history of their respective sports.  Or is Alyson Felix also a 35 year old uppity woman who would have won gold in the 400m if only she hasn't been distracted protesting against gender inequality?
> 
> Your statement about Carlos and Smith is also inaccurate. They were founding members of the Olympic Project for Human Rights before the '68 Games and publicly advocated for its boycott.  When that didn't happen, they made clear in advance they would stage a protest if they won medals. They didn't wait until they won medals to protest, you only think that because of your ignorance. Honestly, it is is pretty offensive to use this kind of revisionist history and Carlos and Smith in particular, both of whom have fully supported kneeling, to rationalize your opposition to things they hold so dearly.
> 
> Funny story. In 1906, Irishman Peter O'Conner participated in the Olympics despite British and Olympic committee refusing to recognize Ireland as a separate entity. When he won silver (surely he would have won gold if he'd just been 100% focused on being a complacent little British citizen right?), the Olympic committee raised the British flag at the ceremony. He then climbed the flag pole and started waving the Irish flag around in protest. I guarantee every racist and sexist here considers Pete O's actions to be heroic, despite being an uppity Olympian supporting a cause that resulted in rioting and an insurrection that ultimately led to thousands of deaths. Why is that? Why is Pete O', a white guy who disrespects the flag a hero, but a few women who kneel (and not even at the Olympics or even in support of insurrection) are despicable traitors?  It is because of things people don't want to admit about themselves.


Nice strawman argument in regards to Allyson Felix and nice attempt to mischaracterize my argument to serve your narrative.   What an amazing outcome for Allyson.   For me its one of the biggest story of the Games, unfortunately so is the Men's 4x100 failure to pass the stick...again.

I'm well aware of Carlos and Smith's substantive efforts prior to the Olympics in regards to human rights.  I would also think an expert like you on Carlos and Smith would know that the raised fist was a spontaneous act according to their own accounts, after the event was complete.   The fact that they were previously involved in human rights is irrelevant and is not comparable to Rapinoe's kneeling before the game.

It's either your lack of reading comprehension or your desire to promote a narrative, but I never said they lost because they knelt.  I said that their kneeling was a sign of Complacency, i.e. lack of focus.   I couldn't careless what she was protesting, she could have been protesting against the abuse of puppies, I'd still have the same opinion.   I happen to agree with you that age was likely a factor, but I also think there were other contributing factors as the article outlined.  So no, they didn't lose because of their politics, but a lack of focus certainly didn't help their performance.


----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 10, 2021)

watfly said:


> Nice strawman argument in regards to Allyson Felix and nice attempt to mischaracterize my argument to serve your narrative.   What an amazing outcome for Allyson.   For me its one of the biggest story of the Games, unfortunately so is the Men's 4x100 failure to pass the stick...again.
> 
> I'm well aware of Carlos and Smith's substantive efforts prior to the Olympics in regards to human rights.  I would also think an expert like you on Carlos and Smith would know that the raised fist was a spontaneous act according to their own accounts, after the event was complete.   The fact that they were previously involved in human rights is irrelevant and is not comparable to Rapinoe's kneeling before the game.
> 
> It's either your lack of reading comprehension or your desire to promote a narrative, but I never said they lost because they knelt.  I said that their kneeling was a sign of Complacency, i.e. lack of focus.   I couldn't careless what she was protesting, she could have been protesting against the abuse of puppies, I'd still have the same opinion.   I happen to agree with you that age was likely a factor, but I also think there were other contributing factors as the article outlined.  So no, they didn't lose because of their politics, but a lack of focus certainly didn't help their performance.


You said "I don't care what you think of the protests, the fact they made a effort to protest meant their focus wasn't 100% on soccer."  Their effort to protest was to kneel a couple times and serve as nominal plaintiffs in a lawsuit to support gender equity.  So much non-soccer stuff that was distracting them, unlike Tommy Smith and John Carlos, who told the entire world well in advance that they were going to protest if they won medals, and despite supporting an entire boycott of the games. Seriously, you're intellectually lazy or dishonest if you think Smith and Carlos weren't engaged in some crazy political "distractions" before they ran, and far more so than the WNT.

How was Muhammad Ali able to be so political, including protesting Vietnam being convicted as a traitor, and then going to the Supreme Court, but still able to beat monsters like Joe Frazier and George Foreman?  How was Kareem Abdul Jabbar able to become the all time points leader and win a bazillion titles while spending his career supporting civil rights and engaging in protests, including boycotting the '68 games because he wasn't feeling very American after the murder of JFK Jr?  How were the Phoenix Suns able to bring out a can of whoop ass on the Spurs in the 2011 playoffs while wearing Los Suns jerseys to protest Arizona's racist anti-immigration bill? How was Reggie White able to win a Super Bowl while also serving as an ordained minister, including repeatedly speaking out only a few months after his church was destroyed in a rash of racist church burnings?  Was it because only men can be political but still "100% focused" on their sports?  Is it because men can handle such things, but women are too emotional to be able to do both?  STFU.


----------



## what-happened (Aug 10, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> You said "I don't care what you think of the protests, the fact they made a effort to protest meant their focus wasn't 100% on soccer."  Their effort to protest was to kneel a couple times and serve as nominal plaintiffs in a lawsuit to support gender equity.  So much non-soccer stuff that was distracting them, unlike Tommy Smith and John Carlos, who told the entire world well in advance that they were going to protest if they won medals, and despite supporting an entire boycott of the games. Seriously, you're intellectually lazy or dishonest if you think Smith and Carlos weren't engaged in some crazy political "distractions" before they ran, and far more so than the WNT.
> 
> How was Muhammad Ali able to be so political, including protesting Vietnam being convicted as a traitor, and then going to the Supreme Court, but still able to beat monsters like Joe Frazier and George Foreman?  How was Kareem Abdul Jabbar able to become the all time points leader and win a bazillion titles while spending his career supporting civil rights and engaging in protests, including boycotting the '68 games because he wasn't feeling very American after the murder of JFK Jr?  How were the Phoenix Suns able to bring out a can of whoop ass on the Spurs in the 2011 playoffs while wearing Los Suns jerseys to protest Arizona's racist anti-immigration bill? How was Reggie White able to win a Super Bowl while also serving as an ordained minister, including repeatedly speaking out only a few months after his church was destroyed in a rash of racist church burnings?  Was it because only men can be political but still "100% focused" on their sports?  Is it because men can handle such things, but women are too emotional to be able to do both?  STFU.


Breathe. I'm tired by just reading this..


----------



## watfly (Aug 10, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> You said "I don't care what you think of the protests, the fact they made a effort to protest meant their focus wasn't 100% on soccer."  Their effort to protest was to kneel a couple times and serve as nominal plaintiffs in a lawsuit to support gender equity.  So much non-soccer stuff that was distracting them, unlike Tommy Smith and John Carlos, who told the entire world well in advance that they were going to protest if they won medals, and despite supporting an entire boycott of the games. Seriously, you're intellectually lazy or dishonest if you think Smith and Carlos weren't engaged in some crazy political "distractions" before they ran, and far more so than the WNT.
> 
> How was Muhammad Ali able to be so political, including protesting Vietnam being convicted as a traitor, and then going to the Supreme Court, but still able to beat monsters like Joe Frazier and George Foreman?  How was Kareem Abdul Jabbar able to become the all time points leader and win a bazillion titles while spending his career supporting civil rights and engaging in protests, including boycotting the '68 games because he wasn't feeling very American after the murder of JFK Jr?  How were the Phoenix Suns able to bring out a can of whoop ass on the Spurs in the 2011 playoffs while wearing Los Suns jerseys to protest Arizona's racist anti-immigration bill? How was Reggie White able to win a Super Bowl while also serving as an ordained minister, including repeatedly speaking out only a few months after his church was destroyed in a rash of racist church burnings?  Was it because only men can be political but still "100% focused" on their sports?  Is it because men can handle such things, but women are too emotional to be able to do both?  STFU.


Again you totally miss the point, but I think that's intentional.  You're trying to promote a woke narrative, whereas I'm just saying that protesting a cause during your competitive event is a sign of lack of focus on the task at hand.  I'm not opining on that impact on the result, just that it's an element of the Complacency, as the author outlined in the article.   I encourage anyone who wants to stand up for a cause to do so...on their own time.

I worry you may live a little too close to your forum name and can't cope with opposing opinions and as a result must follow the playbook of name calling.   Your last sentence is pure fiction, but hopefully it makes you feel better about your "virtue warrior" status.  I'm actually very pro LGBT, but I understand that's incongruent to your monolithic stereotypes.


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Aug 10, 2021)

watfly said:


> Nice strawman argument in regards to Allyson Felix and nice attempt to mischaracterize my argument to serve your narrative.   What an amazing outcome for Allyson.   For me its one of the biggest story of the Games, unfortunately so is the Men's 4x100 failure to pass the stick...again.
> 
> I'm well aware of Carlos and Smith's substantive efforts prior to the Olympics in regards to human rights.  I would also think an expert like you on Carlos and Smith would know that the raised fist was a spontaneous act according to their own accounts, after the event was complete.   The fact that they were previously involved in human rights is irrelevant and is not comparable to Rapinoe's kneeling before the game.
> 
> It's either your lack of reading comprehension or your desire to promote a narrative, but I never said they lost because they knelt.  I said that their kneeling was a sign of Complacency, i.e. lack of focus.   I couldn't careless what she was protesting, she could have been protesting against the abuse of puppies, I'd still have the same opinion.   I happen to agree with you that age was likely a factor, but I also think there were other contributing factors as the article outlined.  So no, they didn't lose because of their politics, but a lack of focus certainly didn't help their performance.


Saying a lack of focus contributed to their losing is parroting a ridiculous crock of shit political narrative. Rapinoe's been kneeling a while now. Did it just start interfering? 

They're older and slower and the lineup was a bit of chaos. Pretty simple.


----------



## tjinaz (Aug 10, 2021)

Soccerfan2 said:


> Saying a lack of focus contributed to their losing is parroting a ridiculous crock of shit political narrative. Rapinoe's been kneeling a while now. Did it just start interfering?
> 
> They're older and slower and the lineup was a bit of chaos. Pretty simple.


Out of curiosity.. how long has Rapinoe been kneeling?  What about the rest of the team?  Seems like they stopped for awhile then started again, well some of them did.. some didn't.  hmm guess that could be a bit distracting.. some teammates kneeling some not might be on their minds and divide the room a bit.  Wonder if they decided before they left the locker room or on the field who was and who wasn't or was it just spontaneous?  Don't know how that could cause them to lose focus....


----------



## Soccerfan2 (Aug 10, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Out of curiosity.. how long has Rapinoe been kneeling?  What about the rest of the team?  Seems like they stopped for awhile then started again, well some of them did.. some didn't.  hmm guess that could be a bit distracting.. some teammates kneeling some not might be on their minds and divide the room a bit.  Wonder if they decided before they left the locker room or on the field who was and who wasn't or was it just spontaneous?  Don't know how that could cause them to lose focus....


I have zero idea what goes on in athlete lives that might or might not distract them. Neither do you. Deciding to assume that something does because you don’t like the thing is an assumption.


----------



## watfly (Aug 10, 2021)

Soccerfan2 said:


> Saying a lack of focus contributed to their losing is parroting a ridiculous crock of shit political narrative. Rapinoe's been kneeling a while now. Did it just start interfering?
> 
> They're older and slower and the lineup was a bit of chaos. Pretty simple.


Good for you for having a strong opinion, but please don't mischaracterize what I've said in order to advance your narrative.  If your argument is valid it should be able to stand on its own.  I will make it more precise for the reading comprehension challenged.  What they were protesting is irrelevant to me (as I said I happen to be pro LGBT), its the act of protesting during the event that makes me question their focus.  The reality is none of us know for certain what contributed to their loss, were all just speculating.  For some reason though, any mention of their lack of focus due to protesting is a sacred cow and triggering for some.


----------



## tjinaz (Aug 10, 2021)

Soccerfan2 said:


> I have zero idea what goes on in athlete lives that might or might not distract them. Neither do you. Deciding to assume that something does because you don’t like the thing is an assumption.


Right.. but something was clearly wrong for a team that was pretty much expected to win gold to do so poorly.  It is a viable theory.  They should be thinking about the game not about anything else.


----------



## eastbaysoccer (Aug 10, 2021)

Time to choose the BEST players for world cup.  Time to call up Macario.


----------



## espola (Aug 10, 2021)

watfly said:


> Good for you for having a strong opinion, but please don't mischaracterize what I've said in order to advance your narrative.  If your argument is valid it should be able to stand on its own.  I will make it more precise for the reading comprehension challenged.  What they were protesting is irrelevant to me (as I said I happen to be pro LGBT), its the act of protesting during the event that makes me question their focus.  The reality is none of us know for certain what contributed to their loss, were all just speculating.  For some reason though, any mention of their lack of focus due to protesting is a sacred cow and triggering for some.


Protested during the event?  I missed that.


----------



## watfly (Aug 10, 2021)

I question the too "old" theory for this reason....age is not something that just happens all of a sudden.  Decrease in ability due to age typically happens over a length time.  How were they not too old to be selected for the team a few months prior to the games and then too old during the games?  Was that just a huge coaching mistake that he selected too old of players?  Maybe it was good intentions out of loyalty to the older players that he selected.  Our opinions regarding the poor results are based on 20/20 hindsight, however, with age you do have some benefit of foresight.  The irony is that if they had won we'd be claiming that they won because of their experience. Win = Experience, Lose = Too Old.


----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 12, 2021)

espola said:


> Protested during the event?  I missed that.


He is just digging a deeper hole and made it up. There was no protesting during the event. There was only protesting when they were winning two WCs and going 44 games undefeated. If anything, that means they would have won gold if they protested during the event because obviously they perform much better when they protest, right? Clearly it couldn't have been age finally catching up to them according to Watfly. In comparison, MNT players have never protested anything and played so poorly they couldn't qualify for the Olympics or WC.  Clearly it is not protesting and its attendant lack of passion and moral courage that is the problem. We need more strong and outspoken women, just younger ones, if the WNT is to continue dominating.

Even if the WNT had protested during the Olympics, which they didn't, the only way to rationalize that they can't still be 100% focused although that has not been a problem with male athletes, is gender bias. There is no other explanation. He'll never admit it, but he would need to if he ever honestly answered "How then did the WNT manage to win two WCs, go 44 straight games without a loss, and develop into the greatest women's soccer team in history while simultaneously supporting civil rights if it isn't possible to focus 100% on soccer and civil rights at the same time?" I'm sure he also honestly believed Carlos and Smith did not protest before they ran their races, but he clearly never even looked into it because he would have realized how much bs wrong that was had he done so. How does a false assumption like that even pop into someone's head, and so strongly that one doesn't even bother to figure out whether it is even true? Gender bias, probably mixed with a touch of race bias and/or homophobia since fundamentally he is rationalizing why he thinks WNT players should be silent on the issues they support.


----------



## watfly (Aug 12, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> He is just digging a deeper hole and made it up. There was no protesting during the event. There was only protesting when they were winning two WCs and going 44 games undefeated. If anything, that means they would have won gold if they protested during the event because obviously they perform much better when they protest, right? Clearly it couldn't have been age finally catching up to them according to Watfly. In comparison, MNT players have never protested anything and played so poorly they couldn't qualify for the Olympics or WC.  Clearly it is not protesting and its attendant lack of passion and moral courage that is the problem. We need more strong and outspoken women, just younger ones, if the WNT is to continue dominating.
> 
> Even if the WNT had protested during the Olympics, which they didn't, the only way to rationalize that they can't still be 100% focused although that has not been a problem with male athletes, is gender bias. There is no other explanation. He'll never admit it, but he would need to if he ever honestly answered "How then did the WNT manage to win two WCs, go 44 straight games without a loss, and develop into the greatest women's soccer team in history while simultaneously supporting civil rights if it isn't possible to focus 100% on soccer and civil rights at the same time?" I'm sure he also honestly believed Carlos and Smith did not protest before they ran their races, but he clearly never even looked into it because he would have realized how much bs wrong that was had he done so. How does a false assumption like that even pop into someone's head, and so strongly that one doesn't even bother to figure out whether it is even true? Gender bias, probably mixed with a touch of race bias and/or homophobia since fundamentally he is rationalizing why he thinks WNT players should be silent on the issues they support.


It's fair to criticize my opinion about whether the protest impacted their focus, but don't lie about their protest.  Their are plenty photos showing them protesting right on the pitch seconds before kickoff.


----------



## Tyler Durden (Aug 12, 2021)

watfly said:


> It's fair to criticize my opinion about whether the protest impacted their focus, but don't lie about their protest.  Their are plenty photos showing them protesting right on the pitch seconds before kickoff.


These are professional athletes and protest really had no impact on how they played.  They have played so many games while protesting that in no way this was a distraction and at this point it was just part of the warm up.  No excuses they just didn't get it done.


----------



## watfly (Aug 12, 2021)

Tyler Durden said:


> These are professional athletes and protest really had no impact on how they played.  They have played so many games while protesting that in no way this was a distraction and at this point it was just part of the warm up.  No excuses they just didn't get it done.


Fair.  I suspect there were a number of contributing factors.  It's not unreasonable to question their focus, an article in Soccer America questioned it.  I think it's a cop out to lay the blame primarily on their age.

I don't doubt that the ladies can walk and chew gum at the same time.  However, if I were a coach I would prefer that my team be 100% focused on the task at hand seconds before kickoff.  Maybe I'm just old school.  Personally I think a protest would be more powerful after a winning result.  Imagine delaying your celebration to take knee and recognize an issue that is greater than the results of the game.  Timing matters.


----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 12, 2021)

watfly said:


> It's fair to criticize my opinion about whether the protest impacted their focus, but don't lie about their protest.  Their are plenty photos showing them protesting right on the pitch seconds before kickoff.


You mean like every other country that knelt before games?  Like every men's team in England has done for years? Keep digging.

Those Canadians are the worst, btw.  Not only did they kneel before games, but have you seen them kneel in their BLM shirts? I've never seen such a pathetic bunch of unpatriotic "unfocused" losers in my life, especially that disrespectful Fleming woman who also knelt at UCLA. She should not be allowed into our country ever again, am I right?  How on earth did she win gold without being able to focus anyway?



watfly said:


> Fair.  I suspect there were a number of contributing factors.  It's not unreasonable to question their focus, an article in Soccer America questioned it.  I think it's a cop out to lay the blame primarily on their age.
> 
> I don't doubt that the ladies can walk and chew gum at the same time.  However, if I were a coach I would prefer that my team be 100% focused on the task at hand seconds before kickoff.  Maybe I'm just old school.  Personally I think a protest would be more powerful after a winning result.  Imagine delaying your celebration to take knee and recognize an issue that is greater than the results of the game.  Timing matters.


Too bad you aren't the WNT coach.  We would really love to hear how you "old school" mansplained to the little ladies (who happen to be two time WC winners and holders of the longest string of games without a loss in WNT history) that you know better than them, and how much better they'll play going forward if only they keep their pretty lips shut. Or maybe you should have been the Packers' coach and whipped Reggie White's pansy ass into shape every time that loser lost focus praying before games. Or is it ok to do non-sports things and think non-sports thoughts before a game so long as they happen to be the things you support?

You also clearly have not considered the fact that every one of their protests was after a winning result, starting with the 2015 WC, followed by 2019 WC and then 44 straight games without a loss. It took the WNT a decade of overwhelming dominance and near perfection to establish sufficient credibility to make an impact through their protests.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 12, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> You mean like every other country that knelt before games?  Like every men's team in England has done for years? Keep digging.
> 
> Those Canadians are the worst, btw.  Not only did they kneel before games, but have you seen them kneel in their BLM shirts? I've never seen such a pathetic bunch of unpatriotic "unfocused" losers in my life, especially that disrespectful Fleming woman who also knelt at UCLA. She should not be allowed into our country ever again, am I right?  How on earth did she win gold without being able to focus anyway?
> 
> ...


Is that you EOTL?


----------



## watfly (Aug 12, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> You mean like every other country that knelt before games?  Like every men's team in England has done for years? Keep digging.
> 
> Those Canadians are the worst, btw.  Not only did they kneel before games, but have you seen them kneel in their BLM shirts? I've never seen such a pathetic bunch of unpatriotic "unfocused" losers in my life, especially that disrespectful Fleming woman who also knelt at UCLA. She should not be allowed into our country ever again, am I right?  How on earth did she win gold without being able to focus anyway?
> 
> ...


I appreciate your passion.  Hopefully you feel better.

I will say one thing.  I'd rather "mansplain" to the women that their focus before the kickoff should be 100% on the game rather than tell them they're past their prime and too old to win a gold medal.


----------



## espola (Aug 12, 2021)

watfly said:


> It's fair to criticize my opinion about whether the protest impacted their focus, but don't lie about their protest.  Their are plenty photos showing them protesting right on the pitch seconds before kickoff.


Are you referring to the photos of when the whole team knelt before the kickoff of the first game?

(just to be fair, the entire Swedish team and the referee also knelt then)


----------



## SoccerLocker (Aug 12, 2021)

espola said:


> Are you referring to the photos of when the whole team knelt before the kickoff of the first game?
> 
> (just to be fair, the entire Swedish team and the referee also knelt then)


As does every team in the EPL, as well England in the Euros.  I guess that's why England didn't win that penalty shootout...


----------



## Kicker4Life (Aug 12, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Is that you EOTL?


Too eloquent……


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Aug 12, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> Too eloquent……


... didn't use "pathetic" at least once.


----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 13, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Is that you EOTL?


Yes, I created my account long before EOTL knowing he/I would eventually get kicked out. Or no, I posted a few times years ago before realizing this place was full of mostly hateful and ignorant posters, but stupidly got involved again after recently stumbling upon offensive comments about the WNT.


----------



## Desert Hound (Aug 13, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> before realizing this place was full of mostly hateful and ignorant posters,


I assume that realization came about when you were looking in the mirror?


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Aug 13, 2021)

Desert Hound said:


> I assume that realization came about when you were looking in the mirror?


"mostly hateful and ignorant posters" - Well, he has that misanthropic streak like EOTL. Let's see if he goes down the road of "bending the board to his will" and checks off the "delusions of gradeur" box.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 13, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> Yes, I created my account long before EOTL knowing he/I would eventually get kicked out. Or no, I posted a few times years ago before realizing this place was full of mostly hateful and ignorant posters, but stupidly got involved again after recently stumbling upon offensive comments about the WNT.


It is uncanny. You express yourself just like EOTL. Well, prior to being known as EOTL, they, them, it went by End Of The Line for a year or so.


----------



## tjinaz (Aug 17, 2021)

So people ask how protesting could distract or divide the team... this is how.

Rapinoe bullys team into protesting


----------



## outside! (Aug 17, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> So people ask how protesting could distract or divide the team... this is how.
> 
> Rapinoe bullys team into protesting


Hope was a great goal keeper, but it is hard to imagine her being bullied. She is also has a reputation for saying stuff that is not entirely believable. I am not saying she is lying, but she is not exactly the best source for facts.


----------



## LASTMAN14 (Aug 17, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> So people ask how protesting could distract or divide the team... this is how.
> 
> Rapinoe bullys team into protesting


Interesting claim. A friend who is an exec for a sports network said the same a few weeks ago.


----------



## espola (Aug 17, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> So people ask how protesting could distract or divide the team... this is how.
> 
> Rapinoe bullys team into protesting


The article content does not match the headline.


----------



## watfly (Aug 17, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> So people ask how protesting could distract or divide the team... this is how.
> 
> Rapinoe bullys team into protesting





outside! said:


> Hope was a great goal keeper, but it is hard to imagine her being bullied. She is also has a reputation for saying stuff that is not entirely believable. I am not saying she is lying, but she is not exactly the best source for facts.


While I don't doubt that Rapinoe sowed division, I would like to hear that claim from someone more credible (or a better grasp on reality) than Hope Solo.


----------



## tjinaz (Aug 17, 2021)

watfly said:


> While I don't doubt that Rapinoe sowed division, I would like to hear that claim from someone more credible (or a better grasp on reality) than Hope Solo.


True.  She did go off the deep end a bit.  You will see about 20 different versions of this story if you google "rapinoe bully".. amazing how diverse the press is.


----------



## watfly (Aug 17, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> True.  She did go off the deep end a bit.  You will see about 20 different versions of this story if you google "rapinoe bully".. amazing how diverse the press is.


In defense of Hope I watched her presentation when she ran for US Soccer president and I was actually impressed, but it could have been that my expectations were really low.

Some of those "Rapinoe bully" articles were more click bait than substance.


----------



## dad4 (Aug 17, 2021)

The "bully people into BLM protest" theory has legs because so many of us witness similar behavior from the left in other contexts.

What is more likely?  That twenty athletes with 20 different sets of opinions all decided that they wanted to protest the same thing?   Or that a few athletes with strong opinions badgered the others into joining the protest?

Given what I remember of campus leftists, the "badger your coworkers" theory makes the most sense.


----------



## watfly (Aug 17, 2021)

dad4 said:


> The "bully people into BLM protest" theory has legs because so many of us witness similar behavior from the left in other contexts.
> 
> What is more likely?  That twenty athletes with 20 different sets of opinions all decided that they wanted to protest the same thing?   Or that a few athletes with strong opinions badgered the others into joining the protest?
> 
> Given what I remember of campus leftists, the "badger your coworkers" theory makes the most sense.


Comply or be labeled a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Nazi, Trump supporter, etc.  See GoldenGate for exhibit A.


----------



## GoldenGate (Aug 17, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> So people ask how protesting could distract or divide the team... this is how.
> 
> Rapinoe bullys team into protesting


Impressive how Rapinoe bullied the Premier League, most Olympic teams, and pretty much every western professional soccer team in the world into kneeling before games. And also bullied 56% of Americans who believe it's appropriate for athletes to kneel during the anthem. We should ignore, however, that Hope Solo was not even around then, has no idea what she's talking about and, to the extent she claims she saw Rapinoe "almost" bully players, she is lying. She left the WNT before kneeling ever even happened. https://www.newsweek.com/hope-solo-left-uswnt-before-megan-rapinoe-starting-kneeling-soccer-1619990. 

It is crazy anyone could sincerely believe that Rapinoe is the one doing any bullying when it comes to kneeling, when the only actual bullying comes from those who have subjected Rapinoe and others to daily death threats for years, and have repeatedly assaulted and threatened people who kneel or support one's decision to do so. What kind of warped mind can honestly believe that a strong lesbian asking teammates whether they will consider joining her in kneeling is a bully, especially when they're demanding that Rapinoe lose her job for exercising her First Amendment rights and are staying staying silent about the death threats and personal attacks that she endures? The answer is obvious.


----------



## tjinaz (Aug 17, 2021)

watfly said:


> Comply or be labeled a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Nazi, Trump supporter, etc.  See GoldenGate for exhibit A.


Wow right on queue.  If you speak her name three times in a mirror does antifa show up?


----------



## GT45 (Aug 18, 2021)

Hope Solo was kicked off the National team before Rapinoe started kneeling, and Solo was charged with domestic violence. She has zero credibility, Sounds like she was just seeking attention. She says that Rapinoe 'almost bullied' her teammates. WTF. So even she is saying that Rapinoe didn't do it.


----------



## MSK357 (Aug 18, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> Impressive how Rapinoe bullied the Premier League, most Olympic teams, and pretty much every western professional soccer team in the world into kneeling before games. And also bullied 56% of Americans who believe it's appropriate for athletes to kneel during the anthem. We should ignore, however, that Hope Solo was not even around then, has no idea what she's talking about and, to the extent she claims she saw Rapinoe "almost" bully players, she is lying. She left the WNT before kneeling ever even happened. https://www.newsweek.com/hope-solo-left-uswnt-before-megan-rapinoe-starting-kneeling-soccer-1619990.
> 
> It is crazy anyone could sincerely believe that Rapinoe is the one doing any bullying when it comes to kneeling, when the only actual bullying comes from those who have subjected Rapinoe and others to daily death threats for years, and have repeatedly assaulted and threatened people who kneel or support one's decision to do so. What kind of warped mind can honestly believe that a strong lesbian asking teammates whether they will consider joining her in kneeling is a bully, especially when they're demanding that Rapinoe lose her job for exercising her First Amendment rights and are staying staying silent about the death threats and personal attacks that she endures? The answer is obvious.


Were you there? You know for a fact Hope is lying, or are you assuming everyone thinks the same and nobody was pressured?


----------



## Desert Hound (Aug 18, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> Impressive how Rapinoe bullied the Premier League, most Olympic teams, and pretty much every western professional soccer team in the world into kneeling before games. And also bullied 56% of Americans who believe it's appropriate for athletes to kneel during the anthem. We should ignore, however, that Hope Solo was not even around then, has no idea what she's talking about and, to the extent she claims she saw Rapinoe "almost" bully players, she is lying. She left the WNT before kneeling ever even happened. https://www.newsweek.com/hope-solo-left-uswnt-before-megan-rapinoe-starting-kneeling-soccer-1619990.
> 
> It is crazy anyone could sincerely believe that Rapinoe is the one doing any bullying when it comes to kneeling, when the only actual bullying comes from those who have subjected Rapinoe and others to daily death threats for years, and have repeatedly assaulted and threatened people who kneel or support one's decision to do so. What kind of warped mind can honestly believe that a strong lesbian asking teammates whether they will consider joining her in kneeling is a bully, especially when they're demanding that Rapinoe lose her job for exercising her First Amendment rights and are staying staying silent about the death threats and personal attacks that she endures? The answer is obvious.


The intolerance usually comes from people like you. 

The left claims to like diversity, etc. And in a sense they do. They like different colored people...as long as they all think the same. You fit that mold perfectly. 

One of the most intolerant places I visit is in the area of the Golden Gate Bridge. The uniformity of thought is a sight to behold.


----------



## MacDre (Aug 18, 2021)

Desert Hound said:


> The intolerance usually comes from people like you.
> 
> The left claims to like diversity, etc. And in a sense they do. They like different colored people...as long as they all think the same. You fit that mold perfectly.
> 
> One of the most intolerant places I visit is in the area of the Golden Gate Bridge. The uniformity of thought is a sight to behold.


Why do you think the cost of living in the Bay Area is so high?
Why do you think the cost of living in Arizona is so low?
HINT:  Has something to do with supply/demand and the education level of the population.

A dedication to you Hound:


----------



## Desert Hound (Aug 18, 2021)

MacDre said:


> HINT: Has something to do with supply/demand and the education level of the population.


It certainly has to do with supply and demand. You are constricted by the coast and so cannot expand that direction. 

Then you have onerous zoning regulations, housing codes, etc that drive up the cost of new housing, etc. etc. 

It is geography and bureaucracy (bad policy) that make housing in the bay area and many other regions of CA overly expensive.


----------



## crush (Aug 18, 2021)

Hey guys, my wife and I have decided to get a "home for the road" when my dd graduates from High School, if we even have high school open this Fall.  I won;t share what Grace and I already know about this Fall in Socal.  If she knows the same folks I know, it's a full court press coming.  The kind that a team does when their down 17 points with 2 minutes to go, so expect a lot of hard fouls.  Make your free throws and it's game over for these cheaters who use kids to win.  Sickos!!!


----------



## Ed Ho (Aug 18, 2021)

The USWNT lost because they were too old.  Just read the tweet below.  Prime age for a team winning a league or tournament is 27.  The USWNT age was 30.8.  That 14.7% difference in age is a large physical difference in performance.  Older players can still produce moments of brilliance, but generally don’t have the physical speed or burst of younger players.   

There were also other reasons they lost, but the selection was all wrong.  Did anyone watch 20 Matthew Hope closing players down with  40 yard sprints in the 115th min after playing the full game game?  Think any 35 year olds would have been able to do that?

@OptaJoe
30y 101d - Crystal Palace have today named their oldest ever starting XI in the Premier League; none of the last 17 teams to name a side with an average age of 30+ in the competition has won (D3 L14). Experience. #EVECRY
4:16 AM · Feb 8, 2020
https://twitter.com/intent/like?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1226117490058592256%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetfootball.com%2Fquick-reads%2Franking-all-20-premier-league-clubs-by-the-average-age-of-their-squad%2F&tweet_id=1226117490058592256


----------



## ToonArmy (Aug 18, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> Impressive how Rapinoe bullied the Premier League, most Olympic teams, and pretty much every western professional soccer team in the world into kneeling before games. And also bullied 56% of Americans who believe it's appropriate for athletes to kneel during the anthem. We should ignore, however, that Hope Solo was not even around then, has no idea what she's talking about and, to the extent she claims she saw Rapinoe "almost" bully players, she is lying. She left the WNT before kneeling ever even happened. https://www.newsweek.com/hope-solo-left-uswnt-before-megan-rapinoe-starting-kneeling-soccer-1619990.
> 
> It is crazy anyone could sincerely believe that Rapinoe is the one doing any bullying when it comes to kneeling, when the only actual bullying comes from those who have subjected Rapinoe and others to daily death threats for years, and have repeatedly assaulted and threatened people who kneel or support one's decision to do so. What kind of warped mind can honestly believe that a strong lesbian asking teammates whether they will consider joining her in kneeling is a bully, especially when they're demanding that Rapinoe lose her job for exercising her First Amendment rights and are staying staying silent about the death threats and personal attacks that she endures? The answer is obvious.


Premier league teams and other Olympic teams kneel during their countries national anthem?


----------



## SoccerLocker (Aug 18, 2021)

ToonArmy said:


> Premier league teams and other Olympic teams kneel during their countries national anthem?


Well there's no national anthem before Premier League games, so no.  They kneel just prior to kickoff.

The National teams are the only ones who play the anthem, and now they stand for the anthem then kneel just prior to kickoff, so no.


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## GoldenGate (Aug 18, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> Wow right on queue.  If you speak her name three times in a mirror does antifa show up?


The psychology behind believing, without a scintilla of proof, that a scary lesbian coerced a majority of WNT players to kneel against their will is rather straightforward. Why does the bizarre idea like that even pop into one's head that a lesbian who allegedly asked teammates to consider kneeling with her must be a bully, when the only actual bullying (including almost daily death threats and physical assaults) that has ever happened with respect to kneeling has come from people like tjinaz who can't help but constantly express their hatred of the scary lesbian woman? How did you feel when SCOTUS ruled in favor of marriage equality tjinaz? Do you believe companies like bakeries should be allowed to deny services to gay people?

Let's talk about Carli Lloyd for a sec, who strangely decided in her final competitive WNT match to stand in opposition to social justice. It was a peculiar decision given there was no national anthem, so there was no argument that it was unpatriotic to kneel, and I think she was the only person including staff, the other team and even the referees, to stand. I have a question for Watfly. If kneeling to show support for social justice has been part of pre-games and essentially part of the game for pretty much every team in the U.S., England and elsewhere for years, if everyone else on the pitch is kneeling like they have always done for years, who is the unfocused player who is being selfish and causing distraction? Where is your post expressing how upset you were that Lloyd was not 100% focused but instead making a pretty bizarre and selfish political statement right before such an important game? Or do you believe Lloyd was the only person there who was 100% focused, while 21 of 22 starters, both teams' staff and benches and even the referees were the unfocused ones?

What I also find strange is that "almost" bully Rapinoe, who keeps tjinaz and desert hound up at night, had zero problems with Lloyd's decision to stand. It's almost, no exactly, like tjinaz's entire theory is just another attempt to slander gay people.


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## tjinaz (Aug 18, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> The psychology behind believing, without a scintilla of proof, that a scary lesbian coerced a majority of WNT players to kneel against their will is rather straightforward. Why does the bizarre idea like that even pop into one's head that a lesbian who allegedly asked teammates to consider kneeling with her must be a bully, when the only actual bullying (including almost daily death threats and physical assaults) that has ever happened with respect to kneeling has come from people like tjinaz who can't help but constantly express their hatred of the scary lesbian woman? How did you feel when SCOTUS ruled in favor of marriage equality tjinaz? Do you believe companies like bakeries should be allowed to deny services to gay people?
> 
> Let's talk about Carli Lloyd for a sec, who strangely decided in her final competitive WNT match to stand in opposition to social justice. It was a peculiar decision given there was no national anthem, so there was no argument that it was unpatriotic to kneel, and I think she was the only person including staff, the other team and even the referees, to stand. I have a question for Watfly. If kneeling to show support for social justice has been part of pre-games and essentially part of the game for pretty much every team in the U.S., England and elsewhere for years, if everyone else on the pitch is kneeling like they have always done for years, who is the unfocused player who is being selfish and causing distraction? Where is your post expressing how upset you were that Lloyd was not 100% focused but instead making a pretty bizarre and selfish political statement right before such an important game? Or do you believe Lloyd was the only person there who was 100% focused, while 21 of 22 starters, both teams' staff and benches and even the referees were the unfocused ones?
> 
> What I also find strange is that "almost" bully Rapinoe, who keeps tjinaz and desert hound up at night, had zero problems with Lloyd's decision to stand. It's almost, no exactly, like tjinaz's entire theory is just another attempt to slander gay people.


So to paraphrase your entire paragraph ... I will quote watfly again... "Comply or be labeled a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Nazi, Trump supporter, etc. See GoldenGate for exhibit A."  I think this could be EOTL reincarnated.


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## what-happened (Aug 18, 2021)

GoldenGate said:


> The psychology behind believing, without a scintilla of proof, that a scary lesbian coerced a majority of WNT players to kneel against their will is rather straightforward. Why does the bizarre idea like that even pop into one's head that a lesbian who allegedly asked teammates to consider kneeling with her must be a bully, when the only actual bullying (including almost daily death threats and physical assaults) that has ever happened with respect to kneeling has come from people like tjinaz who can't help but constantly express their hatred of the scary lesbian woman? How did you feel when SCOTUS ruled in favor of marriage equality tjinaz? Do you believe companies like bakeries should be allowed to deny services to gay people?
> 
> Let's talk about Carli Lloyd for a sec, who strangely decided in her final competitive WNT match to stand in opposition to social justice. It was a peculiar decision given there was no national anthem, so there was no argument that it was unpatriotic to kneel, and I think she was the only person including staff, the other team and even the referees, to stand. I have a question for Watfly. If kneeling to show support for social justice has been part of pre-games and essentially part of the game for pretty much every team in the U.S., England and elsewhere for years, if everyone else on the pitch is kneeling like they have always done for years, who is the unfocused player who is being selfish and causing distraction? Where is your post expressing how upset you were that Lloyd was not 100% focused but instead making a pretty bizarre and selfish political statement right before such an important game? Or do you believe Lloyd was the only person there who was 100% focused, while 21 of 22 starters, both teams' staff and benches and even the referees were the unfocused ones?
> 
> What I also find strange is that "almost" bully Rapinoe, who keeps tjinaz and desert hound up at night, had zero problems with Lloyd's decision to stand. It's almost, no exactly, like tjinaz's entire theory is just another attempt to slander gay people.


Wasn't the first time that Carli Loyd stood .  The Aussies also stood.  Gotta luv choices.  Carlie Loyd has also said Rapino's antics are a distraction and that she should find another way to protest.  They are still friends, just disagree on certain things.  

Kneel, who cares.  Stand, who cares.  Regardless of which one you choose, be prepared for criticism.  They are professional athletes, they should be able to chew gum and walk at the same time.


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## watfly (Aug 18, 2021)

tjinaz said:


> So to paraphrase your entire paragraph ... I will quote watfly again... "Comply or be labeled a racist, homophobe, misogynist, Nazi, Trump supporter, etc. See GoldenGate for exhibit A."  I think this could be EOTL reincarnated.


To be fair GoldenGate only labeled you a homophobe and a misogynist.


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## tjinaz (Aug 18, 2021)

watfly said:


> To be fair GoldenGate only labeled you a homophobe and a misogynist.


Saving something for the big finish.


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 21, 2021)

Why are the USWNT playing Paraguay at all and for a second time? My girls are tuned in and wondering why too.


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## SoccerLocker (Sep 21, 2021)

LASTMAN14 said:


> Why are the USWNT playing Paraguay at all and for a second time? My girls are tuned in and wondering why too.


To finally get Becky a goal, hopefully...


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## LASTMAN14 (Sep 21, 2021)

SoccerLocker said:


> To finally get Becky a goal, hopefully...


Definitely, that would be nice. Put her up top and CL in the back row.


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