# D3 Financial Question



## From the Spot (May 11, 2021)

I have noticed a lot of D3 schools have rosters of 30 or more. With no athletic scholarships are all of those girls paying tuition to play?


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## eastbaysoccer (May 11, 2021)

From the Spot said:


> I have noticed a lot of D3 schools have rosters of 30 or more. With no athletic scholarships are all of those girls paying tuition to play?


Maybe some have FAFSA or academic money but yes


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## GT45 (May 11, 2021)

From the Spot said:


> I have noticed a lot of D3 schools have rosters of 30 or more. With no athletic scholarships are all of those girls paying tuition to play?


They are paying tuition to attend the school. They are also given an opportunity to compete at their college/university.


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## espola (May 11, 2021)

From the Spot said:


> I have noticed a lot of D3 schools have rosters of 30 or more. With no athletic scholarships are all of those girls paying tuition to play?


Not all of it.  Almost all colleges have financial aid and loan programs.


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## Simisoccerfan (May 11, 2021)

Most D3 players I know are getting more money than D1 players.  That's because most are private schools and can steer academic money to players if they have good grades.


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## espola (May 11, 2021)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Most D3 players I know are getting more money than D1 players.  That's because most are private schools and can steer academic money to players if they have good grades.


Preferentially steering money to players is a violation of D3 rules.


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## Simisoccerfan (May 11, 2021)

I guess it is just coincidence then.


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## outside! (May 12, 2021)

Simisoccerfan said:


> I guess it is just coincidence then.


Just like it is a coincident that private Catholic high schools seem to always have great sports teams.


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## espola (May 12, 2021)

outside! said:


> Just like it is a coincident that private Catholic high schools seem to always have great sports teams.


When my sons were in high school, we were approached by the coaches of two private schools (neither Catholic) with suggestions that there was financial aid available if the cost was going to be an issue.


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## crush (May 12, 2021)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Most D3 players I know are getting more money than D1 players.  That's because most are private schools and can steer academic money to players if they have good grades.


I played ball at Hope ((PCC)) back in the day and we got some help.  My grades were so so but I was good NACBBA player.  We had a tournament at Jimmy Swaggerts College in late 80s right after he got busted.  It was insane.  We pull up with our team bus and cameras are everywhere.  I thought ((my ego)) they were all there to film us getting off the bus.  Nope, they were their because Jimmy got caught cheating.


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## Overtime (May 14, 2021)

Most players at D3 schools receive academic money that is not tied to thier athletic pursuits.  Rarely full boat but enough to make it closer to state school prices.


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## espola (May 14, 2021)

If you look at Newsweek's top 20 universities, you find that about a third are D3 schools.


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## SD_Soccer (May 18, 2021)

Overtime said:


> Most players at D3 schools receive academic money that is not tied to thier athletic pursuits.  Rarely full boat but enough to make it closer to state school prices.


My daughter is at a D3. She got 100% tuition covered and gets a cash stipend on top of it. In total, the cash would cover about 90% of housing and food costs living in an apartment (we let her keep it since she saves us from paying any tuition). There are universities that offer a lot of merit aid if the grades and test scores are there to qualify— but there are many that are only. Ed based, so parents need to do their homework based on their family’s situation. my daughter didn’t get any favorable treatment as an athlete, they have a formula based on grades and test scores on what level of scholarship they give. Many at D1 schools are not getting much (if any) athletic scholarship money, but mom and dad can say their kid got recruited to a D1 school (and many of those recruits are the ones that quit playing after 1 year, transfer, or never get on the field).


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## Porkchop (May 19, 2021)

espola said:


> Preferentially steering money to players is a violation of D3 rules.


it's for being  a _Scholar student- all student at d3/private  schools have the same opportunities as the Athletes at the d3/private school to have most if not all tuition cover-_


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## espola (May 19, 2021)

Porkchop said:


> it's for being  a _Scholar student- all student at d3/private  schools have the same opportunities as the Athletes at the d3/private school to have most if not all tuition cover-_


That was my point.


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## watfly (May 19, 2021)

Just a heads up.  Many schools are going test optional, or test blind.  HOWEVER, at many schools test scores are used for merit money.  We know a couple seniors that were accepted to the schools of their choice, but didn't receive any merit money because they didn't have test scores since California didn't offer SAT or ACT testing last year due to Covid.  They couldn't attend those schools because they didn't receive merit money.  

SAT testing has not yet resumed in California, in fact the test for June was just recently cancelled.  It might be in your best interest to travel to another state to take the SAT test, we're doing so for our Junior.   I believe there is an SAT test scheduled in August; however, that would only give your Junior one shot at the test before applications are due.


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## Desert Hound (May 20, 2021)

watfly said:


> Just a heads up.  Many schools are going test optional, or test blind.  HOWEVER, at many schools test scores are used for merit money.  We know a couple seniors that were accepted to the schools of their choice, but didn't receive any merit money because they didn't have test scores since California didn't offer SAT or ACT testing last year due to Covid.  They couldn't attend those schools because they didn't receive merit money.
> 
> SAT testing has not yet resumed in California, in fact the test for June was just recently cancelled.  It might be in your best interest to travel to another state to take the SAT test, we're doing so for our Junior.   I believe there is an SAT test scheduled in August; however, that would only give your Junior one shot at the test before applications are due.


When in doubt don't pin your hopes on the state (or whoever decides if testing can proceed) to get it right.

Do as you are doing and take the test out of state to make your bases are covered.


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## Speed (May 20, 2021)

watfly said:


> Just a heads up.  Many schools are going test optional, or test blind.  HOWEVER, at many schools test scores are used for merit money.  We know a couple seniors that were accepted to the schools of their choice, but didn't receive any merit money because they didn't have test scores since California didn't offer SAT or ACT testing last year due to Covid.  They couldn't attend those schools because they didn't receive merit money.
> 
> SAT testing has not yet resumed in California, in fact the test for June was just recently cancelled.  It might be in your best interest to travel to another state to take the SAT test, we're doing so for our Junior.   I believe there is an SAT test scheduled in August; however, that would only give your Junior one shot at the test before applications are due.


this is not true. our high school has hosted both SAT and ACT in the past month.


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## watfly (May 20, 2021)

Speed said:


> this is not true. our high school has hosted both SAT and ACT in the past month.


ACT yes.  The SAT's were cancelled last week for us in San Diego for June and we were told no other SAT's in California for June.  Where are you located in Socal because right now were scheduled for Prescott, AZ?  Would much rather travel with in SoCal.   Any help is appreciated.


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## watfly (May 20, 2021)

Speed said:


> this is not true. our high school has hosted both SAT and ACT in the past month.


I stand corrected not all SAT's were cancelled in California (confirmed with wife).  Some were cancelled and all others are full.  So those that were cancelled last week are SOL for California and hence why were going to AZ.  So have a backup plan.

Nevertheless, Seniors were screwed.


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## Speed (May 20, 2021)

watfly said:


> I stand corrected not all SAT's were cancelled in California (confirmed with wife).  Some were cancelled and all others are full.  So those that were cancelled last week are SOL for California and hence why were going to AZ.  So have a backup plan.
> 
> Nevertheless, Seniors were screwed.


Awe sorry they are full. The college counselor we are working with said that there is history with sites that cancel. She said best bet is to call the site to ensure they are still planning on hosting. A sister of a girl on our team showed up in Tustin for hers and it had been canceled which had occurred previously. Then it got me thinking of an email that our HS principal sent to us that our school was listed as a site but that we would not be hosting....Those emails were sent for months. So clearly ppl outside of the school would have been burned.


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## Lavey29 (May 26, 2021)

Some good info in this thread for my kid who will be a senior.  I did not know financial aid was still tied to SAT in California.  Her counselor told her it was no longer required for college and that her 4.5gpa was sufficient.  I will have to research this further.


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## Overtime (May 26, 2021)

Lavey29 said:


> Some good info in this thread for my kid who will be a senior.  I did not know financial aid was still tied to SAT in California.  Her counselor told her it was no longer required for college and that her 4.5gpa was sufficient.  I will have to research this further.


My daughter received financial aid at a D3 top tier school an did not submit SAT or ACT scores.


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## vegasguy (May 27, 2021)

My son had opportunities at all levels.  He chose a D3 school for a few reasons not in any order. 1) The opportunity to start and get significant minutes his first year which is not easy for a Keeper.  2) It was way away from the west coast. 3)  They have his major in a major sports market.  4) Great campus No football team.  5) Likes the coach and team and they compete in the College Cup quite a bit 5 of last 6 years.

Me, I was happy with the merit money and it was considerably more % wise than the other divisions.   I think D3 schools benefited from C19 as they got a chance to recruit players that the D1 s could not do to backlog with fifth years, funding and the dark period.


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## watfly (May 28, 2021)

Lavey29 said:


> Some good info in this thread for my kid who will be a senior.  I did not know financial aid was still tied to SAT in California.  Her counselor told her it was no longer required for college and that her 4.5gpa was sufficient.  I will have to research this further.


I don't know about California, this was at some out of state schools and don't know that this is the case for every school.  Just a heads up it may be the case.  My daughter has a 4.6 with a full resume and her independent counselor told her not to plan on getting into the UC schools.  There are a lot of variables involved, so I don't want to compare, but its pretty frustrating.


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## espola (May 28, 2021)

watfly said:


> I don't know about California, this was at some out of state schools and don't know that this is the case for every school.  Just a heads up it may be the case.  My daughter has a 4.6 with a full resume and her independent counselor told her not to plan on getting into the UC schools.  There are a lot of variables involved, so I don't want to compare, but its pretty frustrating.


Everybody gets into UC Merced.

To get into UC Santa Cruz, grow a beard (males) or stop shaving your armpits (females).


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## oh canada (May 28, 2021)

watfly said:


> I don't know about California, this was at some out of state schools and don't know that this is the case for every school.  Just a heads up it may be the case.  My daughter has a 4.6 with a full resume and her independent counselor told her not to plan on getting into the UC schools.  There are a lot of variables involved, so I don't want to compare, but its pretty frustrating.


A couple points from the education side of things...not specifically to you Watfly, but in general...

1 - don't get too reliant on your kid's gpa...colleges know that grade inflation is more present than ever.  Realistically, a HS with 2000 kids should have maybe 20 kids with a 4.0 or higher (top 1%).  That's not the case any more for various reasons.  Focus more on your kid's class rank.  If they are 10 out of 2000, then that will be more impactful than a 4.5 with a rank of 200.  I've even seen 5.0 GPAs.  Ridiculous. 

2 - the high school matters.  Just as a 4.0 at Harvard is more significant than a 4.0 at Southwest State Southeast U., the same is true in high school.  Not saying you have to go to a top ranked private school, of course.  Most of us don't have that option.  But, if at a school not as rigorous, then your kid's gpa might be a lot higher but be less impressive.

3 - Love the D3 conversation above.  It's so true.  Parents main goal re soccer has been to get money to pay for college.  Yet, the focus is often only on D1 schools because parents have been associated with a big club at the top of the food chain and their ego sees D3 as a downgrade to D1.  Often at D3 the education offered is far superior (class size, professor relationships, career opportunities, alumni network) and the soccer quality is still good.  Watch a few D3 games if you haven't already and see for yourself.   The quality of life can also be much better as the soccer seasons can be shorter and soccer is not year-round.  Be truthful with yourself.  Will your kid be happier and better off long term starting on the Johns Hopkins (example) D3 team and getting a degree from a Top 15 academic school at half the cost or sitting on the bench at USC at full price?


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## MamaBear5 (May 28, 2021)

Jumping in here as a teacher of high school seniors:

If you meet the min. requirements you will get into a UC. And espola is right that it is usually Merced because it is the least impacted UC. Your admission to a UC is highly dependent on major and campus. For example trying to get into UCD as an animal sci major is hard but easier as an english major. The best advice is to be realistic about impacted majors/campuses, do volunteer work TARGETED to your intended major and have at least one of your essays directly relate your intended major to your volunteer/travel/life experience. Apply to more than one and if wait listed write the essay to stay on the wait list. A 4.6 will get you into a UC and probably your first if not second choice (but not if your first choice is UCLA and your second is CAL)


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## MamaBear5 (May 28, 2021)

oh canada said:


> 2 - the high school matters.  Just as a 4.0 at Harvard is more significant than a 4.0 at Southwest State Southeast U., the same is true in high school.  Not saying you have to go to a top ranked private school, of course.  Most of us don't have that option.  But, if at a school not as rigorous, then your kid's gpa might be a lot higher but be less impressive.


The opposite is true as well. If you excel at a title one school it looks like you can handle adversity. The key is to take the most rigorous course load offered at your school. If your school offers IB  you need to be an IB candidate. If you school offers AP capstone you need to be in the pathway. If it only offers one AP at each subject you need to be taking those. Most school in so. cal. no longer post class rank on the transcripts BTW.


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## watfly (May 28, 2021)

MamaBear5 said:


> A 4.6 will get you into a UC and probably your first if not second choice (but not if your first choice is UCLA and your second is CAL)


Add at least UCSB to that list.


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## Keeper pops (Jun 1, 2021)

My 03 DD committed to a D3 which we all know doesn’t offer athletic scholarships. It’s a private school and out of state. She was offered academic scholarships along with others university related scholarships to play soccer. 
She wanted to attend a small size college and the chance to continue to play soccer.


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## Lavey29 (Jun 7, 2021)

watfly said:


> I don't know about California, this was at some out of state schools and don't know that this is the case for every school.  Just a heads up it may be the case.  My daughter has a 4.6 with a full resume and her independent counselor told her not to plan on getting into the UC schools.  There are a lot of variables involved, so I don't want to compare, but its pretty frustrating.


My kid got a letter that she was already pre qualified for UC school admissions. She would technically be entering college as a sophomore because of the college courses she has already taken and AP classes. So the 3 year plan sounds much better financially to me.


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## MamaBear5 (Jun 7, 2021)

Lavey29 said:


> My kid got a letter that she was already pre qualified for UC school admissions. She would technically be entering college as a sophomore because of the college courses she has already taken and AP classes. So the 3 year plan sounds much better financially to me.


Awesome. That letter guarantees 1 of the UC's and is generally sent to the top 10% of each school. Be aware that entering as a sophomore does not mean a 3 year plan. My eldest is finishing her freshman year at UC Davis. While in units she is a sophomore in reality it didn't really cancel out many if any of her classes. My best friends daughter is at SLO and the same scores on the same tests canceled out a ton of classes. Really take a look at each individuals schools ap score equivalent sheets. Wouldn't have changed my kiddos decision (she chose Davis over SLO) but it is frustrating to see as a parent.


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## Lavey29 (Jun 7, 2021)

MamaBear5 said:


> Awesome. That letter guarantees 1 of the UC's and is generally sent to the top 10% of each school. Be aware that entering as a sophomore does not mean a 3 year plan. My eldest is finishing her freshman year at UC Davis. While in units she is a sophomore in reality it didn't really cancel out many if any of her classes. My best friends daughter is at SLO and the same scores on the same tests canceled out a ton of classes. Really take a look at each individuals schools ap score equivalent sheets. Wouldn't have changed my kiddos decision (she chose Davis over SLO) but it is frustrating to see as a parent.


Good advice, thanks... so my wallet will have to be open for the full 4 even though she is already completing college courses at a JC?


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## MacDre (Jun 7, 2021)

Lavey29 said:


> Good advice, thanks... so my wallet will have to be open for the full 4 even though she is already completing college courses at a JC?


It will depend on if she took the classes in the appropriate area.  Check what classes your daughter has taken on ASSIST to see how many areas of the IGETC she has completed and that will give you an idea of how much scrilla, scratch, paper you’ll be saving on tuition.






						IGETC | UC Admissions
					






					admission.universityofcalifornia.edu


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