# NORCAL PPP LOANS



## Deadpool Soccer (Jul 21, 2020)

Went through the PPP list and pulled all the Norcal clubs and companies I could find who received PPP. 

$350,000-1 million - 24-7 UK SOCCER ACADEMY
$350,000-1 million - COPA SOCCER TRAINING CENTERS LLC
$350,000-1 million - DE ANZA FORCE SOCCER CLUB ,INC
$350,000-1 million  - MUSTANG SOCCER LEAGUE
$350,000-1 million - SOCCER PRO
$150,000-350,000 - ALBANY-BERKELEY SOCCER CLUB
$150,000-350,000 - BURLINGAME SOCCER CLUB
$150,000-350,000 - DAVIS YOUTH SOCCER LEAGUE
$150,000-350,000 - EAST BAY UNITED SOCCER CLUB
$150,000-350,000 - LIVERMORE YOUTH SOCCER LEAGUE
$150,000-350,000 - LOS GATOS UNITED SOCCER LEAGUE
$150,000-350,000 - MILL VALLEY SOCCER CLUB, INC.
$150,000-350,000 - NORCAL PREMIER SOCCER
$150,000-350,000 - OAKLAND PRO SOCCER LLC
$150,000-350,000 - PALO ALTO SOCCER CLUB INC
$150,000-350,000 - SF VIKINGS SOCCER CLUB JUNIORS
$150,000-350,000 - SACRAMENTO UNITED SOCCER CLUB
$150,000-350,000 - SAN RAMON SOCCER CLUB, INC.
$150,000-350,000 - THE MARIN FOOTBALL CLUB
$150,000-350,000 - WALNUT CREEKS SOCCER CLUB


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## Woobie06 (Jul 21, 2020)

Deadpool Soccer said:


> Went through the PPP list and pulled all the Norcal clubs and companies I could find who received PPP.
> 
> $350,000-1 million - 24-7 UK SOCCER ACADEMY
> $350,000-1 million - COPA SOCCER TRAINING CENTERS LLC
> ...


Good for these clubs and their Administrators being on top of the situation and submitting the paperwork/application on time.  Smart business.


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## Deadpool Soccer (Jul 21, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Good for these clubs and their Administrators being on top of the situation and submitting the paperwork/application on time.  Smart business.


I agree. But not when a few of them continued to charge families and still received PPP.


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## espola (Jul 21, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> Good for these clubs and their Administrators being on top of the situation and submitting the paperwork/application on time.  Smart business.


The next question is what did they do with the money?


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## Woobie06 (Jul 21, 2020)

The PPP funds are used to keep people employed during the pandemic.  Tons of uncertainty right now...most clubs I know are asking for a small portion to keep things going...be careful what you wish for, play it too thin and these clubs fold...does everyone think they are getting screwed and the clubs are taking advantage of families and getting over on you?  If you feel this way, why participate?  These funds infuse cash and lengthen the runway...My perspective, I want the clubs to be healthy, with the ability to scholarship kids of need and have good coaches/facilities.  They should not get the funds they qualify for?  Some people need to get out of their cube, think bigger picture, and stop thinking people are out to get them.


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## gotothebushes (Jul 22, 2020)

Hearing a player from a local club training in Norcal tested positive for Covid yesterday! Not sure if it was on the girls or boys side! Crazy times!


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## NorcalsoccerYNWA (Jul 22, 2020)

gotothebushes said:


> Hearing a player from a local club training in Norcal tested positive for Covid yesterday! Not sure if it was on the girls or boys side! Crazy times!


Which club??


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## Anon9 (Jul 22, 2020)

NorcalsoccerYNWA said:


> Which club??


Pee Ess Vee


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## gotothebushes (Jul 22, 2020)

NorcalsoccerYNWA said:


> Which club??


 They wouldn't say which club!


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## gotothebushes (Jul 23, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Pee Ess Vee


 Stay safe!!


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## Glitterhater (Jul 23, 2020)

I wonder if they'll ever reveal the club? I'm sure at some point it will organically be known.


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## gotothebushes (Jul 23, 2020)

Glitterhater said:


> I wonder if they'll ever reveal the club? I'm sure at some point it will organically be known.


 Anon9 just told you what club it was!!


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## Copa9 (Jul 23, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> The PPP funds are used to keep people employed during the pandemic.  Tons of uncertainty right now...most clubs I know are asking for a small portion to keep things going...be careful what you wish for, play it too thin and these clubs fold...does everyone think they are getting screwed and the clubs are taking advantage of families and getting over on you?  If you feel this way, why participate?  These funds infuse cash and lengthen the runway...My perspective, I want the clubs to be healthy, with the ability to scholarship kids of need and have good coaches/facilities.  They should not get the funds they qualify for?  Some people need to get out of their cube, think bigger picture, and stop thinking people are out to get them.


The funds should go to the businesses that need it most.  If a club is still collecting dues, fees, they do not need it. How many employees do they have?  Our club is fairly large and only has two office workers, the rest are coaches. Are the clubs double dipping? Without going to showcases, the club doesn't even have to pay for all their coaches to travel to showcases (airfare, hotels, meal reimbursement). They are not paying tournament fees, field fees, ref fees, etc. etc. etc. $350,000 to $1,000,000 seems like a lot, especially if you look at the assets the clubs own (someone published that info earlier this year). Do we want clubs to fold, no.  But I also have read about a lot of small businesses that are truly struggling and not getting the financial support that club soccer gets. I don't feel clubs are screwing the family members or taking advantage of us, our choice to pay the fees, but I do think they are screwing the small business owners and those families who truly need the help.


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## EOTL (Jul 23, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> The funds should go to the businesses that need it most.  If a club is still collecting dues, fees, they do not need it. How many employees do they have?  Our club is fairly large and only has two office workers, the rest are coaches. Are the clubs double dipping? Without going to showcases, the club doesn't even have to pay for all their coaches to travel to showcases (airfare, hotels, meal reimbursement). They are not paying tournament fees, field fees, ref fees, etc. etc. etc. $350,000 to $1,000,000 seems like a lot, especially if you look at the assets the clubs own (someone published that info earlier this year). Do we want clubs to fold, no.  But I also have read about a lot of small businesses that are truly struggling and not getting the financial support that club soccer gets. I don't feel clubs are screwing the family members or taking advantage of us, our choice to pay the fees, but I do think they are screwing the small business owners and those families who truly need the help.


Identify the club that is not struggling. Please identify the clubs that haven’t suffered a catastrophic loss in revenue. Why is a soccer club less deserving of a PPP loan than a bar or liquor store? Why should soccer coaches be forced into unemployment but not bartenders? Payroll advance loan sharks? Used car salespeople? Lawyers?

Are softball parents as self-loathing about the sport they let their child play?


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## Woobie06 (Jul 23, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> The funds should go to the businesses that need it most.  If a club is still collecting dues, fees, they do not need it. How many employees do they have?  Our club is fairly large and only has two office workers, the rest are coaches. Are the clubs double dipping? Without going to showcases, the club doesn't even have to pay for all their coaches to travel to showcases (airfare, hotels, meal reimbursement). They are not paying tournament fees, field fees, ref fees, etc. etc. etc. $350,000 to $1,000,000 seems like a lot, especially if you look at the assets the clubs own (someone published that info earlier this year). Do we want clubs to fold, no.  But I also have read about a lot of small businesses that are truly struggling and not getting the financial support that club soccer gets. I don't feel clubs are screwing the family members or taking advantage of us, our choice to pay the fees, but I do think they are screwing the small business owners and those families who truly need the help.


The opportunity existed for ALL small businesses to participate.  Some were on top of it, some were not.  Applications are still being accepted through 8/8 and funds are still available.  If these clubs followed the process and qualified for funds.  Great for them.  We are still in the middle of this and many families are affected.  Let’s hold off judgement and see what happens...nobody cares whether you, me, or somebody else feels they are deserving or not.  They applied, qualified, and received funds.  Coaches need to get paid, families will need scholarships, lots of moving parts.  Every business owner/operator I know that received funds is thankful.  It has allowed us to keep people paid, survive the dips, and take care of our people.  BTW, we are not dropping rates, reducing charges, etc. to our customers, there are other things we are doing.  Why is it that everybody thinks Clubs are “evil” and “scammers”.  I know lots of good people at clubs here and in Texas.  Mostly really good people.  I also know some jerks.  You find that in every business and walk of life.


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## azsnowrider (Jul 23, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> The funds should go to the businesses that need it most.  If a club is still collecting dues, fees, they do not need it. How many employees do they have?  Our club is fairly large and only has two office workers, the rest are coaches. Are the clubs double dipping? Without going to showcases, the club doesn't even have to pay for all their coaches to travel to showcases (airfare, hotels, meal reimbursement). They are not paying tournament fees, field fees, ref fees, etc. etc. etc. $350,000 to $1,000,000 seems like a lot, especially if you look at the assets the clubs own (someone published that info earlier this year). Do we want clubs to fold, no.  But I also have read about a lot of small businesses that are truly struggling and not getting the financial support that club soccer gets. I don't feel clubs are screwing the family members or taking advantage of us, our choice to pay the fees, but I do think they are screwing the small business owners and those families who truly need the help.



Other things to consider in a club that factor into the money situation for a club. They don't just make money by collecting your fees, dues etc. Just because they don't go to showcases or do tournaments does not mean they are saving money. As far as saving money on coaches travel, tournaments etc, we the parents foot that bill not the club. The one big thing your missing that is a major money maker is the tournaments the clubs put on, and that STAY and PLAY money kick back from the hotels. When they canceled the Vegas showcase do you think that loss of the Stay and Play hotel kickback didn't hurt? I know what our club generates and it's a large number. Without that other income some clubs were unable to generate via showcases and tourneys the put on, the clubs are hurting. So yes they are using your Fee's/ dues/ PPP to help survive. The PPP program was used by many many business's, with the main hitch being you can't layoff the employees. Did business's take advantage of it sure they did. Just don't assume all of the club's cash flow comes from your fee's, dues and with that everything is fine.  Not the case.


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## dk_b (Jul 23, 2020)

if the clubs are getting PPP, they should be paying their coaches (and if they are still treating their coaches as independent contractors, well, that's a problem for them).

if you are concerned about their spend, you can ask for disclosure - most/all are non-profits and you should be able to review their tax filings (back in the NorCal bulletin board days, there was one commenter who was really adept at summarizing that information).  This current year's filings won't be availble but, since they WILL be public at some point, they should be willing to share with the membership (even if certain controls are imposed)


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## Free Kick (Jul 31, 2020)

dk_b said:


> if the clubs are getting PPP, they should be paying their coaches (and if they are still treating their coaches as independent contractors, well, that's a problem for them).
> 
> if you are concerned about their spend, you can ask for disclosure - most/all are non-profits and you should be able to review their tax filings (back in the NorCal bulletin board days, there was one commenter who was really adept at summarizing that information).  This current year's filings won't be availble but, since they WILL be public at some point, they should be willing to share with the membership (even if certain controls are imposed)


Exactly.  Most clubs are 501(c)(3) entities, which places transparency requirements on them not only to its membership but also to the IRS (who are looking for PPP fraud).  I have child that plays on one of these listed PPP clubs and they have been ravaged by Covid.  For this past spring, they were not mandating fees but asked families to only pay if they could.  That money went into not only staying afloat but also to the expense of creating on line programming, distribution of equipment for those unable to participate on-line (laptops), and preparing for how to handle the current social distancing practices.  I've seen zero evidence of anything remotely close to "double dipping."


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## Copa9 (Aug 2, 2020)

Woobie06 said:


> The opportunity existed for ALL small businesses to participate.  Some were on top of it, some were not.  Applications are still being accepted through 8/8 and funds are still available.  If these clubs followed the process and qualified for funds.  Great for them.  We are still in the middle of this and many families are affected.  Let’s hold off judgement and see what happens...nobody cares whether you, me, or somebody else feels they are deserving or not.  They applied, qualified, and received funds.  Coaches need to get paid, families will need scholarships, lots of moving parts.  Every business owner/operator I know that received funds is thankful.  It has allowed us to keep people paid, survive the dips, and take care of our people.  BTW, we are not dropping rates, reducing charges, etc. to our customers, there are other things we are doing.  Why is it that everybody thinks Clubs are “evil” and “scammers”.  I know lots of good people at clubs here and in Texas.  Mostly really good people.  I also know some jerks.  You find that in every business and walk of life.


If clubs collected all their fees for last year (except last two months for those paying monthly), haven't heard of any local clubs offering refunds, that's okay with me for now, and the new season hasn't started yet, the only loss of revenue would be for tournaments, the majority of which are in August. If a club is the host of the tournament they loose money, but on the other hand they aren't paying fees to participate in other tournaments and should get some refund if they applied to a tournament way in advance. Every club in our area, except one small club, has large assets on the books. Where is the "huge" loss of revenue?  Now if the club for the upcoming season sees a "huge" drop in participants then there might be a need for PPP.  Some will say, well they saw an opportunity and took it even if they didn't need it, and therein lies the problem with the program.  There are so many small businesses that truly need it to stay afloat.  But really, $300,000 to $1,000,000, for some of these clubs that have huge assets?  I truly wonder if the IRS will be able to identify those committing fraud. We all want soccer to continue, clubs to continue, coaches to be paid, but I also want to see the local small businesses to stay in business. I want the money to go to those who truly need it.


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## dad4 (Aug 2, 2020)

Anon9 said:


> Pee Ess Vee


Any word on whether it spread to other team members?


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## Anon9 (Aug 2, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Any word on whether it spread to other team members?


From what I understand, the measures hve been extreme to prevent a spread, even before the positive case. Definitely nobody else has come down with it.


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## Copa9 (Aug 4, 2020)

EOTL said:


> Identify the club that is not struggling. Please identify the clubs that haven’t suffered a catastrophic loss in revenue. Why is a soccer club less deserving of a PPP loan than a bar or liquor store? Why should soccer coaches be forced into unemployment but not bartenders? Payroll advance loan sharks? Used car salespeople? Lawyers?
> 
> Are softball parents as self-loathing about the sport they let their child play?


So far all the big clubs in So.Cal are doing just fine financially. They collected almost all of their fees through last year.  New fees for this upcoming year are just starting to be collected.  They have saved money by not participating in tournaments, and if they paid in advance will most likely get some refund.  The only place they might loose money is if their own tournament is cancelled. Certainly a lot of club coaches train privately and may have lost revenue from that. The local clubs have huge assets, with the exception of one small club, check out a previous post someone did a few months ago.  The PPP these clubs applied for range from $350,000 to $1,000,000.  If and when these clubs face laying off their office employees or coaches, then they should apply for PPP.  But hey, screw the small business owners who have put their life savings into opening a small business and have very little assets.


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## EOTL (Aug 4, 2020)

Copa9 said:


> So far all the big clubs in So.Cal are doing just fine financially. They collected almost all of their fees through last year.  New fees for this upcoming year are just starting to be collected.  They have saved money by not participating in tournaments, and if they paid in advance will most likely get some refund.  The only place they might loose money is if their own tournament is cancelled. Certainly a lot of club coaches train privately and may have lost revenue from that. The local clubs have huge assets, with the exception of one small club, check out a previous post someone did a few months ago.  The PPP these clubs applied for range from $350,000 to $1,000,000.  If and when these clubs face laying off their office employees or coaches, then they should apply for PPP.  But hey, screw the small business owners who have put their life savings into opening a small business and have very little assets.


So far all the small non-soccer businesses in SoCal are doing fine. See, if someone just says something on the Internet, it must be true. 

No clubs are “doing fine” without PPP money. Their employees who benefit from these PPP loans aren’t “doing fine” without that money either. If you believe otherwise, feel free to pick out a club and compare their revenue and profit YTD compared to prior year. Compare their wage costs YTD compared to last year. I triple dog dare you. 

Why do you hate youth soccer clubs so much?  Why are they less deserving than any other industry?


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## Remi (Sep 15, 2020)

Deadpool Soccer said:


> Went through the PPP list and pulled all the Norcal clubs and companies I could find who received PPP.
> 
> $350,000-1 million - 24-7 UK SOCCER ACADEMY
> $350,000-1 million - COPA SOCCER TRAINING CENTERS LLC
> ...


wow - and all of them have EMPLOYEES who are paid at this rate, not IC? Shocking


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## dk_b (Sep 15, 2020)

Remi said:


> wow - and all of them have EMPLOYEES who are paid at this rate, not IC? Shocking


Any clubs still considering/paying coaches as independent contractors are doing so at their peril under the current state of CA law. All it takes is one wage/hour lawsuit and the club can come crumbling down (the cost of defense and then the loss (and the club is likely to lose))


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