# SCDSL Playoff info?



## timbuck (Oct 8, 2018)

Anyone have any insight on what they are planning to do this year?
Last year, not every team made it.  And they had the teams from each division within a flight play against teams that finished in a similar position.

Example:
Flight 1 East, North, South, South II - The teams that finished in 1st place played the other first place teams. And on down the line.


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## lafalafa (Oct 8, 2018)

Other than the playoffs will be "limited" and not for Discovery divisions haven't heard anything lately or new.

Limited I would assume means fewer teams vs previous years.  Instead of the 8 teams per bracket ( top 6 + top 2 from lower bracket) won't be surprised if there is just 4 teams (top 4) or something similar.


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## ReVolted (Oct 8, 2018)

Based on what I have read in the "Rules" for this year's Discovery division there will be NO playoffs like last year's Tier 1 etc...  The top 2 teams will receive a "cash stipend  for a tournament of their choice".   Soooo, if you are not near the top of your division then the season will be over the weekend of Nov 11th.


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## timbuck (Oct 8, 2018)

Well what do you know.  I just received this email:

*For all teams that play 11 v 11 in the SCDSL (2006 and older)*

Below is the playoff format for this season.

Each group will start in the Round of 8 on 11/10.

Quarter-finals will be on 11/11.

Semi-finals on 11/17 and .......

Finals on 11/18. All playoff games will be a Silverlakes and possibly Rancho Mission Viejo Riding Park (11/10 and 11/11 only).

All WILD CARDS will be determined by Pts/GP (Points per Game Played. Second column on the standings page).

By accommodating all of the test dates, extending the season in to the first weekend of November and making a "true" playoff system we now begin at the Round of 8.  For ties in Pts/GP the following tie-breakers will apply.


Head-to-head (when applicable). If 3 teams are tied in the same geographical division, then head-to-head is not considered and teams move to next tie-breaker.
Best Goal Differential
Highest Goals For
Fewest Goals Against
Coin Toss (2 SCDSL officials will conduct any coin toss and will notify the teams of the results).
_*Discovery Division teams do not participate in the playoffs*_

_*Trophies and medals will be awarded for Champions and Finalists in each playoff division.*_

_*Playoffs are not optional. If your team qualifies, then the team is expected to play.*_

Playoffs Format Teams
G2006 Flight 1 3 = 1st Place Teams , 3 = 2nd Place Teams and 2 Wild Cards 8
G2006 Flight 2 5 1st Place Teams and 3 Wild Cards (8 total Teams) 8
G2006 Flight 3 3 = 1st Place Teams , 3 = 2nd Place Teams and 2 Wild Cards 8
B2006 Flight 1 4 1st Place Teams and 4 2nd Place Teams 8
B2006 Flight 2 6 = 1st Place Teams and 2 = Wild Cards 8
B2006 Flight 3 3 = 1st Place Teams , 3 = 2nd Place Teams and 2 Wild Cards 8
G 2005 Flight 1 5 1st Place Teams and 3 Wild Cards (8 total Teams) 8
G2005 Flight 2 3 1st Place Teams and 5 Wild Cards 8
G2005 Flight 3 3 1st Place Teams and 5 Wild Cards 8
B2005 Flight 1 4 1st Place Teams and 4 2nd Place Teams 8
B2005 Flight 2 5 1st Place Teams and 3 Wild Cards (8 total Teams) 8
B2005 Flight 3 Top 4 from East and Top 4 from Southwest (1st round east vs southwest high seed vs low seed) 8
G2004 Flight 1 Top 2 Champions, Top 2, Europa South, East and West (8 Teams) 8
G2004 Flight 2 6 1st Place Finishers. Top 2 PPG.  8
G2004 Flight 3 Top 4 Teams (1 Flight of 10) 4
B2004 Flight 1 Top 4 from Champions, Top 2 from Uropa I and Europa II 8
B2004 Flight 2 1st Place Finisher from 8 Brackets 8
B2004 Flight 3 Top 2 from North and Top 2 from South 4
G2003 Flight 1 Top 2 Champions, Top 2, Europa South, East and West (8 Teams) 8
G2003 Flight 2 Top 2 teams from 4 Brackets 8
G2003 Flight 3 Top 4 from 1 Bracket 4
B2003 Flight 1 Top 4 from Champions, Top 2 from Europa I and Europa II 8
B2003 Flight 2 5 1st Place Teams and 3 Wild Cards (8 total Teams) 8
B2003 Flight 3 Top 4 from East and Top 4 from Southwest 8
G2002 Flight 1 Top 4 from Champions, Top 2 from Europa I and Europa II 8
G2002 Flight 2 Top 2 from 4 Brackets 8
B2002 Flight 1 Top 3 Champions, Top 1 Europa Central, South I and South II.  Top 2 PPG from Europa 8
B2002 Flight 2 5 1st Place Teams and 3 Wild Cards (8 total Teams) 8
G2001 Flight 1 Top 4 from Champions, Top 2 from Uropa I and Europa II 8
G2001 Flight 1 Top 2 from 3 Brackets and 2 Wild Cards 8
B2001 Flight 1 Top 2 from 4 Brackets 8
B2001 Flight 1 Top 2 from North and Top 2 from South 4
G2000 Flight 1 Top 4 from North and South 8
B2000 Flight 1 Top 3 From Champions and Top 1 From 3 Europa Brackets, 2 Wild Cards from Europa 8
B2000 Flight 2 Top 4 from 1 Bracket 4


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## ReVolted (Oct 8, 2018)

As your message above clearly shows (Timbuck)_:

*Discovery Division teams do not participate in the playoffs*..._


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## timbuck (Oct 8, 2018)

Looks like Discovery has the season lasting until 11/17.  Which is the same weekend that the playoffs end on.  
A 10 game season is soooooo lame.  Which is what teams that don't make the playoffs will wind up with.


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## Eagle33 (Oct 8, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Looks like Discovery has the season lasting until 11/17.  Which is the same weekend that the playoffs end on.
> A 10 game season is soooooo lame.  Which is what teams that don't make the playoffs will wind up with.


Don't think that just because you want more games everyone else want more games.


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## ReVolted (Oct 8, 2018)

Agreed and there are more than 10 teams in our league so some teams won't even get to play each other...


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## timbuck (Oct 8, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> Don't think that just because you want more games everyone else want more games.


I think to be done with the fall soccer season by November 3rd is lame.  It's pretty likely that our team makes it.  But the other 35 teams in the flight will be done. That is stupid.
I've got no problem with the "playoff" being a limited format for the top performing teams.  I've got an issue with a "Developmental Soccer League" being wrapped up on November 4th and then waiting around to play State Cup until February (05 and under) or late March (olders).


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## jpeter (Oct 8, 2018)

ReVolted said:


> Based on what I have read in the "Rules" for this year's Discovery division there will be NO playoffs like last year's Tier 1 etc...  The top 2 teams will receive a "cash stipend  for a tournament of their choice".   Soooo, if you are not near the top of your division then the season will be over the weekend of Nov 11th.


At the half way point in the season would have to be already near the top to get the prize $$$, likely   24+ pts/  7+ wins to finish top 2 IMO.

Could use the prize $$ to enter one of the other spring leagues (usclub) instead of a tournament or travel to Vegas or something rather than the same teams in a local tournament


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## RedCard (Oct 8, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Well what do you know.  I just received this email:
> 
> *For all teams that play 11 v 11 in the SCDSL (2006 and older)*
> 
> ...


So I take it that the seeding for the 1st place teams from each flight will go by best goal difference, correct???


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## timbuck (Oct 8, 2018)

Let me put this another way -- 
Last year (which I think was the first year for the playoffs), the Girls 2004 bracket had 72 teams participating.  1st place teams played 1st place teams.  2nd place teams played 2nd place teams. Etc.  Not a great format either, but at least you had more teams particpating
This year there are 20 Girls 2004 teams participating.
I guess you gotta find a way to pay that $1,000 discovery league prize somehow.


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## espola (Oct 8, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Each group will start in the Round of 8 on 11/10.
> 
> Quarter-finals will be on 11/11.


In most tournaments, quarterfinals is a round of 8.


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## futboldad1 (Oct 8, 2018)

espola said:


> In most tournaments, quarterfinals is a round of 8.


Exactly. What does this even mean?!


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## Primetime (Oct 8, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I think to be done with the fall soccer season by November 3rd is lame.  It's pretty likely that our team makes it.  But the other 35 teams in the flight will be done. That is stupid.
> I've got not problem with the "playoff" being a limited format for the top performing teams.  I've got an issue with a "Developmental Soccer League" being wrapped up on November 4th and then waiting around to play State Cup until February (05 and under) or late March (olders).


The voting by club directors wasn't even close.   Less teams making the playoffs was the runaway winner.   Reason being No one who finished 4th,5th,6th or 7th in their brackets wanted to play the top 1st or 2nd place team half way across who knows where just to get waxed.  They'd rather call it a wrap and move on.    Big surprise to me was the youngers showcase games day was also voted out almost unanimously.   I actually thought that was a cool day.  Get to watch the entire age group play 2 games at one location.  It Was shot down real quick.


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## Primetime (Oct 8, 2018)

Discovery division is supposed to be a playoff in its self.   The premise is that it's already the top team (previous winners) playimg eachother so the prestige is there from game one.    A maybe like college football where every game matters.


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## timbuck (Oct 8, 2018)

Primetime said:


> The voting by club directors wasn't even close.   Less teams making the playoffs was the runaway winner.   Reason being No one who finished 4th,5th,6th or 7th in their brackets wanted to play the top 1st or 2nd place team half way across who knows where just to get waxed.  They'd rather call it a wrap and move on.    Big surprise to me was the youngers showcase games day was also voted out almost unanimously.   I actually thought that was a cool day.  Get to watch the entire age group play 2 games at one location.  It Was shot down real quick.


Or was the reason “we can charge the same fee but have less games”= more money to keep. 
Less ref fees. Less Field costs.  Coaches get a free weekend. 
10 games playing 4 teams twice and 2 teams once is dumb. 
I’m sure there will be a team that deserves a playoff spot that will get hosed because they played the 1st place team twice, but the last place team once. . And the first place team had 2 games against a last place team.


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## gswarriors (Oct 8, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Or was the reason “we can charge the same fee but have less games”= more money to keep.
> Less ref fees. Less Field costs.  Coaches get a free weekend.
> 10 games playing 4 teams twice and 2 teams once is dumb.
> I’m sure there will be a team that deserves a playoff spot that will get hosed because they played the 1st place team twice, but the last place team once. . And the first place team had 2 games against a last place team.


I couldn't agree more. How many games do teams get in CSL?


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## timbuck (Oct 9, 2018)

gswarriors said:


> I couldn't agree more. How many games do teams get in CSL?


Quick glance shows 12 or 13 league games plus League Cup games.


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## Eagle33 (Oct 9, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Quick glance shows 12 or 13 league games plus League Cup games.


If you are not happy with the league you are in, you don't have to play in it. There are plenty of tournaments every weekend all over the country. If you want your team to play 3-4 games every weekend, it is an option. 
I don't thing there is anything wrong with playing 10 games during Fall, specially when HS season right now starts on November 5th. 
The whole world figured this out long ago and US Soccer finally getting aboard with this - more training and less games.


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## Soccer (Oct 9, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Or was the reason “we can charge the same fee but have less games”= more money to keep.
> Less ref fees. Less Field costs.  Coaches get a free weekend.
> 10 games playing 4 teams twice and 2 teams once is dumb.
> I’m sure there will be a team that deserves a playoff spot that will get hosed because they played the 1st place team twice, but the last place team once. . And the first place team had 2 games against a last place team.


You make no sense.

How does SCDSL make more money with less playoff games?

Teams pay ref fees.  Silverlakes is paid for regardless if used or not.  It’s a contract.

Your team saves money by not having more games.  Your club saves more money by not having to rent fields for more games.

If playoffs are so important to you play for a better team.

Most of these kids will be into high school practice.  Unless they aren’t good enough for that team.

You look at this through the eyes of a bad low level team.  Say you are on a high level team.  Play 10 games in league, 3 games in playoffs and then a Thanksgiving Tourney.  The kids need a break.  By the time you add in test dates a higher level team has what maybe 1 weekend off.


Oh and BTW SCDSL added playoffs 3 years ago.  Same fee is charged for teams since year one Of the league.  So playoffs have always been essentially free.

It is a DOC driven league if DOC’s said let’s play 14 games and no playoffs that’s what you would have.


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## timbuck (Oct 9, 2018)

I’m not saying the league makes more money.  I’m talking about the clubs that voted for less games. They pay less in ref fees and field costs. But collect the same fee from parents and players. 
Let’s say a club has 40 teams that play 11v11. Average ref fee per team is $64. 
Only 8 of them make the playoffs. 
32 teams playing 2 less games is a little over $4k. 
Not gonna make anyone rich, but it won’t hurt either. 

As stated in a prior message here-  there was a vote to limit the number of teams in the playoffs.  Why would soccer people vote to have soccer kids play less games?  And have kids be done playing by November 4th?

I tend to think that most decisions come down to either money, safety or convenience.


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## El Clasico (Oct 9, 2018)

Soccer said:


> You make no sense. If playoffs are so important to you play for a better team.
> Most of these kids will be into high school practice.  Unless they aren’t good enough for that team.
> You look at this through the eyes of a bad low level team.  Say you are on a high level team.  Play 10 games in league, 3 games in playoffs and then a Thanksgiving Tourney.  The kids need a break.  By the time you add in test dates a higher level team has what maybe 1 weekend off.
> It is a DOC driven league if DOC’s said let’s play 14 games and no playoffs that’s what you would have.


Soccer's explanation is so uncouth. Let me help explain it in a manner that is more clear and hopefully less offensive.

What I think Soccer is trying to say is, that if your kid sucks, f**k you, sit down, shut up, pay your fees and be grateful that your contribution is helping subsidize the kids that aren't reduced to playing on the competitive rec team. Be happy that you are allowed to share a uniform with those high level teams.

Trust the COCK'S, I mean DOC'S as they would never put $$$ or self interest over the growth and development of your child.


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## Soccer (Oct 9, 2018)

timbuck said:


> As stated in a prior message here-  there was a vote to limit the number of teams in the playoffs.  Why would soccer people vote to have soccer kids play less games?  And have kids be done playing by November 4th?


Most clubs have the teams pay ref fees.  So it saves the teams money.  Not everyone wants soccer every weekend in the fall. 

_In regards to the part I quoted.   Look at it through the eyes of a top team.  Is it less games?  10 League games, 3 playoff games, plus all of the test dates.  13 games in a crammed fall season, is that really too few.   The movement is soccer is more like level competition and less games.   You start adding games, you take away test dates.  Or you eliminate the playoff, take your pick.  DOC's voted to keep test dates and have a playoff to get a couple of good games against other high finishing teams.   Nothing about money.  

Most of your posts are about how Club Soccer is so bad, quite frankly complaining about it all of the time.  Why do you have your kids play in it then?  It is a choice.  If you are so concerned, how are you getting involved to make it better?  Are you a coach?  Are you a Board Member/ Volunteer for your club?  _


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## focomoso (Oct 9, 2018)

gswarriors said:


> I couldn't agree more. How many games do teams get in CSL?


Usually 14 + at least one round of league cup (2 games).


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## timbuck (Oct 9, 2018)

You are looking at this from the lens of an 04 and older team. Test dates, hs soccer, etc. 
Some 04s are still in 8th grade and that doesn’t come in to play. 
All 06 and all 05 players are in middle school. No test dates or Hs soccer for them to worry about. 

If this was voted in this summer...why not announce the format before the season starts?   Here we are halfway through the season and the reduced playoff format just comes out. 

If we don’t make the playoffs-  we’ll probably find a few games that weekend anyway. Or maybe we’ll plan the team camping trip we tried to make happen this summer.


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## MWN (Oct 9, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I’m not saying the league makes more money.  I’m talking about the clubs that voted for less games. They pay less in ref fees and field costs. But collect the same fee from parents and players.
> Let’s say a club has 40 teams that play 11v11. Average ref fee per team is $64.
> Only 8 of them make the playoffs.
> 32 teams playing 2 less games is a little over $4k.
> ...


@Soccer and @timbuck,

The Silverlakes/SCDSL contract provides that SCDSL has between 22-24 weekend play dates to be used during the period after Labor Day through December (para 4.1).  The problem facing SCDSL with an expanded playoff format is Silverlakes cannot accommodation all the games, so SCDSL has to reach out to other complexes if its going to expand the playoff format to allow more teams.  While Silverlakes The other problem facing SCDSL and CSL and Cal South is the CIF moved the High school season up two weeks to early November, which wasn't anticipated.  So now we have leagues faced with ending their seasons weeks before Thanksgiving because the clubs lose players to HS.  

The quick answer is the fields are not all paid for with an expanded playoff season and HS demands the season end by the 4th.


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## jpeter (Oct 9, 2018)

Primetime said:


> The voting by club directors wasn't even close.   Less teams making the playoffs was the runaway winner.   Reason being No one who finished 4th,5th,6th or 7th in their brackets wanted to play the top 1st or 2nd place team half way across who knows where just to get waxed.  They'd rather call it a wrap and move on.    Big surprise to me was the youngers showcase games day was also voted out almost unanimously.   I actually thought that was a cool day.  Get to watch the entire age group play 2 games at one location.  It Was shot down real quick.


Interesting, wonder why we never heard about voting on these topics any of the previous years until this one/now?  The orginal playoff format was ridiculous and most everyone I talked to thought the showcases were no better than scrimmages so wonder why this year things changed?

The ideas of getting consistent quality games in discovery and not wanting playoffs, not sure about that with 10-0 scores maybe it's growing pains but the comp on the boys side has been uneven past a few of the top teams in most groups.


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## timbuck (Oct 9, 2018)

Soccer said:


> Most clubs have the teams pay ref fees.  So it saves the teams money.  Not everyone wants soccer every weekend in the fall.
> 
> _In regards to the part I quoted.   Look at it through the eyes of a top team.  Is it less games?  10 League games, 3 playoff games, plus all of the test dates.  13 games in a crammed fall season, is that really too few.   The movement is soccer is more like level competition and less games.   You start adding games, you take away test dates.  Or you eliminate the playoff, take your pick.  DOC's voted to keep test dates and have a playoff to get a couple of good games against other high finishing teams.   Nothing about money.
> 
> Most of your posts are about how Club Soccer is so bad, quite frankly complaining about it all of the time.  Why do you have your kids play in it then?  It is a choice.  If you are so concerned, how are you getting involved to make it better?  Are you a coach?  Are you a Board Member/ Volunteer for your club?  _


I think club soccer is great for the kids.  It's the adults that screw things up every few months.
Mergers, competing leagues/watered down competition, fundraisers, jackasses on the sidelines yelling at players and refs, crappy field conditions, expensive parking, $300 uniforms, reduced number of games....  These are the main things that I'll "complain" about.


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## Soccer (Oct 9, 2018)

There is a DOC in January. Things are voted on as to what worked what didn’t.  It wasn’t last summer.  By then it is to late as schedule was to clubs by August 1 this year.

It is a DOC driven league.  A lot of these questions are for your DOC.  Why didn’t the club communicate it?  This information was out there.

MWN, the Silverlakes lease is for 20 fields and ends Nov 18th.  The lease is for 19 play dates.  You have 5 test dates.  That is 14 days teams can play at older ages, with no rain days.

Tim Buck this is the first year of U13 playoffs.  Another thing DOC’s voted for.  That age has 12 Games plus potentially 3 playoff games.  U14 will always be grouped with older teams.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 9, 2018)

our club felt playoffs at younger age groups are better than having Showcase games - which just about every coach/parent hated for many reasons. Better competitive structure, better development for the kids. There are field issues and the current format, as it stands, accommodates what is possible. Only a few clubs could probably absorb the cost of the fields if the games were played as home games. You also dont know who will not make the playoffs and it is already a nightmare to schedule field months in advanced.would be nearly impossible to organize games with only a week or two in advance - without a lot of fighting about where and when. Im all for more games, but a ton of issues with the details of playing even an extra game outside of a place like Silverlakes. Ill take more games at Great Park =)


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## jpeter (Oct 9, 2018)

Soccer said:


> There is a DOC in January. Things are voted on as to what worked what didn’t.  It wasn’t last summer.  By then it is to late as schedule was to clubs by August 1 this year.
> 
> It is a DOC driven league.  A lot of these questions are for your DOC.  Why didn’t the club communicate it?  This information was out there.
> 
> ...


Normally there are minutes, agenda, and votes published for organizations and never really seen any of that from DSL which seems to do it things their own way changing all the time.

Changes can be good but for example who or how or things  put to a vote?   These is some type of  board but what does that mean saying this a DOC league? If a DOC has a recommendation how does that get put to a vote?    DSL has never been the best about timely communication and there transparency could use some improvement also IMO.


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## Multi Sport (Oct 9, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> The whole world figured this out long ago and US Soccer finally getting aboard with this - more training and less games.


I wonder if the coaches will still hold training sessions up until Thanksgiving.  Or maybe "open" training sessions, you know, to start recruiting.


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## Eagle33 (Oct 9, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> I wonder if the coaches will still hold training sessions up until Thanksgiving.  Or maybe "open" training sessions, you know, to start recruiting.


I'm sure some will continue training and some don't. All depends on the coach, club and team.


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## zags77 (Oct 9, 2018)

ReVolted said:


> As your message above clearly shows (Timbuck)_:
> 
> *Discovery Division teams do not participate in the playoffs*..._


Who needs playoffs when you can get these?


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## Soccer (Oct 9, 2018)

jpeter said:


> Normally there are minutes, agenda, and votes published for organizations and never really seen any of that from DSL which seems to do it things their own way changing all the time.
> 
> Changes can be good but for example who or how or things  put to a vote?   These is some type of  board but what does that mean saying this a DOC league? If a DOC has a recommendation how does that get put to a vote?    DSL has never been the best about timely communication and there transparency could use some improvement also IMO.



This is a DOC driven league, if a DOC has an idea they bring it up to the technical committee and it is discussed at the meeting in an open forum.  There are minutes and documentation is taken on the vote a the meeting.  

The board is their to approve financial decisions only, they have nothing to do with the schedule, number of games, formats etc.  That is all decided and voted on by the DOC's.  The board is there to say, no we cannot give each team $1,000 for winning league, decisions like that.  They honestly have no input on anything.  

Sounds more like your DOC is not open on communication and transparency.  As our DOC always shares the results and agenda for every meeting.


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## Primetime (Oct 17, 2018)

Soccer said:


> This is a DOC driven league, if a DOC has an idea they bring it up to the technical committee and it is discussed at the meeting in an open forum.  There are minutes and documentation is taken on the vote a the meeting.
> 
> The board is their to approve financial decisions only, they have nothing to do with the schedule, number of games, formats etc.  That is all decided and voted on by the DOC's.  The board is there to say, no we cannot give each team $1,000 for winning league, decisions like that.  They honestly have no input on anything.
> 
> Sounds more like your DOC is not open on communication and transparency.  As our DOC always shares the results and agenda for every meeting.


Correct.  Any significant info from the meeting I relay to my coaches the same day.  They've known everything since January.   It was real simple in the voting.  The vast majority felt that too many teams were getting in the playoffs and most of the bottom teams were only making it in to then have to play the top seeded teams that they had no real chance of beating.  So most coaches/docs didn't want follow what was already likely a disapointing season with a beat down to ice the cake just for the sake of playing another game.   Not that complicated.  I'm sure there's couple teams in there that just miss out but that's always the case.   As far as brackets and teams not playing everyone the same amount of times, again happens a lot it's a random draw.   So a team or two has an easier schedule in your bracket, At the end of the day if you can beat the first place team once let alone twice then why are you looking to be in the playoffs at all anyways.


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## soccermama213 (Oct 20, 2018)

This year in discovery bracket my kid has played one game a weekend . The teams aren’t anything like they were in the past but that may be just age group related. It seems like a boring drug outnseqson without a lot of intensity. At least the playoffs would of been for something.ninhage to say though I have enjoyed having a weekend day free


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## INFAMEE (Oct 21, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> If you are not happy with the league you are in, you don't have to play in it. There are plenty of tournaments every weekend all over the country. If you want your team to play 3-4 games every weekend, it is an option.
> I don't thing there is anything wrong with playing 10 games during Fall, specially when HS season right now starts on November 5th.
> The whole world figured this out long ago and US Soccer finally getting aboard with this - more training and less games.


Lol@ High school soccer


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## javiecua03 (Oct 21, 2018)

This is my son first year playing is SCDSL, under 2010b (2011 birthday year). Really low competing for the kids to learned anything teams beating teams 9/10/11 to 0/1 ect. But then again I get it teams are just staring , but I would have liked it if  there where some sort of playoff after the season for how much the scdsl charges to participate the least they could do or even let the kids play south and east brackets.  At this age kids just want to play. I think Sunday’s leagues have better competing and way cheaper.


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## Not_that_Serious (Oct 22, 2018)

javiecua03 said:


> This is my son first year playing is SCDSL, under 2010b (2011 birthday year). Really low competing for the kids to learned anything teams beating teams 9/10/11 to 0/1 ect. But then again I get it teams are just staring , but I would have liked it if  there where some sort of playoff after the season for how much the scdsl charges to participate the least they could do or even let the kids play south and east brackets.  At this age kids just want to play. I think Sunday’s leagues have better competing and way cheaper.


Depends on the league. At the littles age groups they have more technical training. Issue occurs as they grow and Sunday leagues tend to make kids develop real bad habits.


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## Soccer (Oct 22, 2018)

javiecua03 said:


> This is my son first year playing is SCDSL, under 2010b (2011 birthday year). Really low competing for the kids to learned anything teams beating teams 9/10/11 to 0/1 ect. But then again I get it teams are just staring , but I would have liked it if  there where some sort of playoff after the season for how much the scdsl charges to participate the least they could do or even let the kids play south and east brackets.  At this age kids just want to play. I think Sunday’s leagues have better competing and way cheaper.


I miss where $400 is a lot to charge for a fall league?


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## Soccer (Oct 23, 2018)

Looks like the playoff schedule is up.  They just have to plug in the trans, when season is done.

http://www.scdslsoccer.com/schedule/2019-playoff-schedule


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## timbuck (Oct 23, 2018)

Looks like there will be 1 game the weekend of Nov 11.  Either Saturday or Sunday.  Mostly Sunday.
Then semi-final on Nov 17.  Final on November 18th.

Seems they could have easily fit a few more teams in and had teams play 2 possible games the first weekend.


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## Eagle33 (Oct 23, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Looks like there will be 1 game the weekend of Nov 11.  Either Saturday or Sunday.  Mostly Sunday.
> Then semi-final on Nov 17.  Final on November 18th.
> 
> Seems they could have easily fit a few more teams in and had teams play 2 possible games the first weekend.


You have a choice to move to CSL where you will get 14 League games and League Cup games.


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## Soccer (Oct 23, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Looks like there will be 1 game the weekend of Nov 11.  Either Saturday or Sunday.  Mostly Sunday.
> Then semi-final on Nov 17.  Final on November 18th.
> 
> Seems they could have easily fit a few more teams in and had teams play 2 possible games the first weekend.


You are basing this on?  Silverlakes looks full the 10th and 11th.   There also must be a winner so PK's can push games longer.   Remember it gets dark at 5PM.  I am sure if it was not completely full they would not have games at RMV as well.


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## javiecua03 (Oct 24, 2018)

Soccer said:


> I miss where $400 is a lot to charge for a fall league?


$400 ,plus ref fees adds up. no reason 7 yr olds need 2 or 4 refs. I would understand if they gave them playoff or the most have them play other conferences,12 games really for $400. you have a Sunday or Saturday league charge $100 nice turf and grass fields.


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## javiecua03 (Oct 24, 2018)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Depends on the league. At the littles age groups they have more technical training. Issue occurs as they grow and Sunday leagues tend to make kids develop real bad habits.


its scdsl , yeah that right more technical training, what would be the issue once they grow say to next year ?  yeah i see your point on developing bad habits but that's why finding the right league is important for their development.


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## timbuck (Oct 24, 2018)

I don’t think the “league” cares or should be responsible for technical training. 
That’s on the club and the coach.  And ultimately on the parent to make sure they find the right fit.


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## Kicker4Life (Oct 25, 2018)

javiecua03 said:


> its scdsl , yeah that right more technical training, what would be the issue once they grow say to next year ?  yeah i see your point on developing bad habits but that's why finding the right league is important for their development.


You are focusing on the wrong thing. Leagues  do not develop players coaches do. Find the right coach and the rest will fall in place.


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## Soccer (Oct 25, 2018)

javiecua03 said:


> $400 ,plus ref fees adds up. no reason 7 yr olds need 2 or 4 refs. I would understand if they gave them playoff or the most have them play other conferences,12 games really for $400. you have a Sunday or Saturday league charge $100 nice turf and grass fields.


Most clubs pay the ref fees for the team.  Ref fees go to the refs not the league. 

What’s a playoff going to give you?   CSL charges an additional fee for League Cup and ref fees.  Additional funds, that you already think are to high.

You are comparing apples and oranges.  Between rec and club.  

Your kid is a 2011, 6 or 7 years old.  Is it to much at that age?  Probably.  Then why did you do it?

You have club fees too, that you don’t have In a Sunday league.  Volunteers for everything in a Sunday league.


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## El Clasico (Oct 25, 2018)

Soccer said:


> Most clubs pay the ref fees for the team.  Ref fees go to the refs not the league.
> 
> What’s a playoff going to give you?   CSL charges an additional fee for League Cup and ref fees.  Additional funds, that you already think are to high.
> 
> ...


Not speaking for every club in so cal but in many, many years of club with multiple kids, I have never seen, experienced or heard of a club paying the ref fees for a team. Which club does that? That doesn't even make sense, why would the club fork out hundreds of dollars in ref fees when that would cut into their margins.

Also, while you are correct that you do have to pay ref fees for CSL League Cup (which contradicts your first statement), the tournament itself is FREE. Most teams choose to participate but there are a fair amount of teams that do not.


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## Soccer (Oct 26, 2018)

CSL used to charge a fee.  Now we haven’t been a part of CSL for years.  Since SCDSL was formed. 

 I know for fact of many clubs that in fact pay ref fees.  

Glad you are happy with CSL.  How many older teams played League Cup on girls side?  None of the top teams back in the day.


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## timbuck (Oct 26, 2018)

Nothing is free.  
If your club pays your ref fees-  it’s part of the fee that you pay your club. 
If there’s a “free”’league tournament, the league definitely baked that cost into the league fee they charge your club.  And that was definitely passed down to the families that pay.


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## El Clasico (Oct 26, 2018)

Soccer said:


> CSL used to charge a fee.  Now we haven’t been a part of CSL for years.  Since SCDSL was formed. Even prior to SCDSL, I don't recall them charging for it but it was a long time ago and I could be mistaken.
> 
> I know for fact of many clubs that in fact pay ref fees.  I simply asked which ones?? Since you know for a "fact" that there are many, it should be an easy question to answer. How about naming two of them?
> 
> ...


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## TheyBothPlay (Oct 26, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> Not speaking for every club in so cal but in many, many years of club with multiple kids, I have never seen, experienced or heard of a club paying the ref fees for a team. Which club does that? That doesn't even make sense, why would the club fork out hundreds of dollars in ref fees when that would cut into their margins.


Really?  It’s simply priced in to the dues for clubs that don’t separately itemize/ bill/collect ref fees and it feels a lot less cheap than those we’ve been at where the hand comes out for $4 every week making you think of that week in and week out.  Does the hotel that doesn’t add an “energy surcharge”to your bill like some do or the airline that doesn’t add a “fuel surcharge” to your ticket like some do make ignorant decisions and fork out millions of dollars for those things cutting into their margins?  Not really, they simply price those items  into the headline price of the room or the ticket rather than appear to be nickle and diming the customer for everything.  It’s annoying paying an energy surcharge, a resort fee, and a parking fee on top of the room rate even though in theory the total you’re paying at the end of the day should be the same.


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## Soccer (Oct 26, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Nothing is free.
> If your club pays your ref fees-  it’s part of the fee that you pay your club.
> If there’s a “free”’league tournament, the league definitely baked that cost into the league fee they charge your club.  And that was definitely passed down to the families that pay.


Agree.  To an extent.  

Good question how much is the CSL entry fee per team?  They also collect a bond for every team.  How much bond money have they returned through the years.

SCDSL is $400 per team.  No bond and no extra fee for Tournament at older ages.  It comes down to logistics.  Silverlakes could be used for  a league Cup, but this is not what the DOC’s wanted.


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## Soccer (Oct 26, 2018)

Blues (Gives each team $2k for ref fees and State Cup), Strikers MV, West Coast (used too, not sure anymore).


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## El Clasico (Oct 26, 2018)

TheyBothPlay said:


> Really?  It’s simply priced in to the dues for clubs that don’t separately itemize/ bill/collect ref fees and it feels a lot less cheap than those we’ve been at where the hand comes out for $4 every week making you think of that week in and week out.  Does the hotel that doesn’t add an “energy surcharge”to your bill like some do or the airline that doesn’t add a “fuel surcharge” to your ticket like some do make ignorant decisions and fork out millions of dollars for those things cutting into their margins?  Not really, they simply price those items  into the headline price of the room or the ticket rather than appear to be nickle and diming the customer for everything.  It’s annoying paying an energy surcharge, a resort fee, and a parking fee on top of the room rate even though in theory the total you’re paying at the end of the day should be the same.


Thank you for helping me make my point....which is the club does not pay it.  The parents pay it...usually through their team fees which are held in a team account and usually accessed by a team admin or manager who pays the refs at every game.  You seem more confused than the other guy.

Never had a DOC come up to our game and say... hey, save your money, have a pizza party or pay to video the game but the refs today are on the club.


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## El Clasico (Oct 26, 2018)

Soccer said:


> Blues (Gives each team $2k for ref fees and State Cup), Strikers MV, West Coast (used too, not sure anymore).


Really? It’s simply priced in to the dues for clubs that don’t separately itemize/ bill/collect ref fees and it feels a lot less cheap than those we’ve been at where the hand comes out for $4 every week making you think of that week in and week out. Does the hotel that doesn’t add an “energy surcharge” to your bill like some do or the airline that doesn’t add a “fuel surcharge” to your ticket like some do make ignorant decisions and fork out millions of dollars for those things cutting into their margins? Not really, they simply price those items into the headline price of the room or the ticket rather than appear to be nickel and diming the customer for everything. It’s annoying paying an energy surcharge, a resort fee, and a parking fee on top of the room rate even though in theory the total you’re paying at the end of the day should be the same.

@TheyBothPlay, just helping you reply to the correct post.


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## TheyBothPlay (Oct 26, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> Thank you for helping me make my point....which is the club does not pay it.  The parents pay it...usually through their team fees which are held in a team account and usually accessed by a team admin or manager who pays the refs at every game.  You seem more confused than the other guy.
> 
> Never had a DOC come up to our game and say... hey, save your money, have a pizza party or pay to video the game but the refs today are on the club.


So your point is simply that club soccer isn’t free?! Thanks for the insight!  How much would you say the “free” car wash included  with an overpriced oil change costs?  Of course it’s not free in the true sense, but the recipient would be right in saying he didn’t pay for it and it would be a shock to him when he goes down the street, gets an oil change and car wash, and then gets separately charged for the car wash he’s used to being “free”.


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## TheyBothPlay (Oct 26, 2018)

El Clasico said:


> Thank you for helping me make my point....which is the club does not pay it.  The parents pay it...usually through their team fees which are held in a team account and usually accessed by a team admin or manager who pays the refs at every game.  You seem more confused than the other guy.
> 
> Never had a DOC come up to our game and say... hey, save your money, have a pizza party or pay to video the game but the refs today are on the club.


And actually as I reread your post, I see the source of confusion.  You don’t mean the club doesn’t “pay” it. The club does pay it. You mean the club effectively doesn’t “bear the cost of it”.  On that we agree and is probably why my post made the point you intended.  It’s interesting seeing all the different ways different clubs present and charge for things—all with the effect of making apples to apples comparisons very difficult!


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## Mom Taxi (Oct 26, 2018)

Eagle33 said:


> You have a choice to move to CSL where you will get 14 League games and League Cup games.


Not necessarily -as an example this season G03 Premier only got 8 games. Depends on the number of teams in each bracket. But League Cup definitely provides an opportunity for more games.


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## Multi Sport (Oct 30, 2018)

Mom Taxi said:


> Not necessarily -as an example this season G03 Premier only got 8 games. Depends on the number of teams in each bracket. But League Cup definitely provides an opportunity for more games.


Key word is "opportunity". Teams may be one and done...


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## socalkdg (Oct 30, 2018)

Multi Sport said:


> Key word is "opportunity". Teams may be one and done...


CSL for the 05 girls two games is worse case this year for League cup.    Actually been a long season for us.   14 regular plus minimum of 2 league cup games.  16 total.


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## LBCTrojan (Oct 30, 2018)

timbuck said:


> Or was the reason “we can charge the same fee but have less games”= more money to keep.
> Less ref fees. Less Field costs.  Coaches get a free weekend.
> 10 games playing 4 teams twice and 2 teams once is dumb.
> I’m sure there will be a team that deserves a playoff spot that will get hosed because they played the 1st place team twice, but the last place team once. . And the first place team had 2 games against a last place team.


So we're heading into the last weekend of the SCSDL season. How did your daughter's team make out? Best of luck!


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## timbuck (Oct 30, 2018)

Games Saturday and Sunday.  
We’ll wind up in 2nd place regardless of our results this weekend. 
Need at least 1 win and a little help to get a wildcard spot.


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## TheyBothPlay (Nov 3, 2018)

Curious as to how seeding works.  For playoff divisions that have different flights participating (like Europa and Champions for the “Flight 1 Playoffs”), are all teams qualifying from the higher flight automatically seeded higher than all teams from the lower flight?  For playoffs divisions that take the first and second place teams from across multiple divisions of the same flight, are all first place teams automatically seeded ahead of all second place teams, are they all thrown into a single group and seeded simply on points, something else?


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## timbuck (Nov 3, 2018)

Based on the way they have the playoffs setup, I’m sure they are just throwing darts at a board.  No rhyme or reason.


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## Soccer (Nov 4, 2018)

TheyBothPlay said:


> Curious as to how seeding works.  For playoff divisions that have different flights participating (like Europa and Champions for the “Flight 1 Playoffs”), are all teams qualifying from the higher flight automatically seeded higher than all teams from the lower flight?  For playoffs divisions that take the first and second place teams from across multiple divisions of the same flight, are all first place teams automatically seeded ahead of all second place teams, are they all thrown into a single group and seeded simply on points, something else?


In years past Champions first seeds in order of finish.  Then Europa followed.

Last year there were quite a few Europa wins in first games.


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