# ECNL Expansion In NorCal



## Highlander (Feb 2, 2022)

Any thoughts on if ECNL will expand in NorCal? I'm sure Bay Area FC now Bay Area Surf will try to get into ECNL. It's always bothered me that there isn't an ECNL option in the Central Valley (Stockton to Fresno), so much great talent there. My only thoughts are there isn't enough $$$ there for ECNL to expand...what other reason could it be?


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## dad4 (Feb 2, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Any thoughts on if ECNL will expand in NorCal? I'm sure Bay Area FC now Bay Area Surf will try to get into ECNL. It's always bothered me that there isn't an ECNL option in the Central Valley (Stockton to Fresno), so much great talent there. My only thoughts are there isn't enough $$$ there for ECNL to expand...what other reason could it be?


San Juan likes being able to take the best players from the north end of the Central Valley. 

If you let in any Cental Valley team, it would be Ajax.  And then San Juan wouldn’t be the only game in town.

The other big hole is the east side of SF bay.  All the ECNL clubs are across the ridge or across the bay from you.  (Assuming your name is a reference to Piedmont).


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## NorCalDad (Feb 2, 2022)

dad4 said:


> San Juan likes being able to take the best players from the north end of the Central Valley.
> 
> If you let in any Cental Valley team, it would be Ajax.  And then San Juan wouldn’t be the only game in town.
> 
> The other big hole is the east side of SF bay.  All the ECNL clubs are across the ridge or across the bay from you.  (Assuming your name is a reference to Piedmont).


Rancho Cordova is pretty far from Modesto.  Are players making that trek?


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## youthsportsugghhh (Feb 2, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> Rancho Cordova is pretty far from Modesto.  Are players making that trek?


Players from Modesto area were/are coming into the southbay to MVLA and Force and were to Quakes/FC Bay Area too. Is Rancho Further than that? I think the 8 teams are going to make it difficult for any more teams into ECNL for a multitude of reasons.


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## NorCalDad (Feb 3, 2022)

youthsportsugghhh said:


> Players from Modesto area were/are coming into the southbay to MVLA and Force and were to Quakes/FC Bay Area too. Is Rancho Further than that? I think the 8 teams are going to make it difficult for any more teams into ECNL for a multitude of reasons.


Well Rancho Cordova is about an hour and a half away, which is closer than heading out to the South Bay.  Pretty crazy.  I don't know how folks do that.


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## youthsportsugghhh (Feb 3, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> Well Rancho Cordova is about an hour and a half away, which is closer than heading out to the South Bay.  Pretty crazy.  I don't know how folks do that.


I agree, but then again I live in the south bay where there are multitudes of clubs at every level to choose from and excellent coaching at many despite what people say who leave those clubs -- Shiny objects and green grass!!


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## Highlander (Feb 3, 2022)

youthsportsugghhh said:


> Players from Modesto area were/are coming into the southbay to MVLA and Force and were to Quakes/FC Bay Area too. Is Rancho Further than that? I think the 8 teams are going to make it difficult for any more teams into ECNL for a multitude of reasons.


That is crazy. I feel for those kids. Exactly why there should be a couple ECNL teams in the valley. The talent is there for sure. Curious what you think the reasons would be for them not adding more ECNL clubs?


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## youthsportsugghhh (Feb 3, 2022)

Highlander said:


> That is crazy. I feel for those kids. Exactly why there should be a couple ECNL teams in the valley. The talent is there for sure. Curious what you think the reasons would be for them not adding more ECNL clubs?


If they can get the people to come to their clubs and have consistently high level of play what would be the incentive to allow more clubs come into the fold.  When the DA folded -- Lamorinda, Quakes/FC Bay Area/Bay area Surf, Placer were all available for ECNL and were "left out".  They are also pretty paired up as well with the 8 clubs in.  Personally I like NPL where all the teams can compete and no national travel, but like I say above people always want the Shiny Object and the Green Grass.


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## NorCalDad (Feb 3, 2022)

Highlander said:


> That is crazy. I feel for those kids. Exactly why there should be a couple ECNL teams in the valley. The talent is there for sure. Curious what you think the reasons would be for them not adding more ECNL clubs?


I think one of the problems with ECNL is the binary nature of it.  Clubs are all in or all out.  Yet, if you go look at the ECNL standings (boys and girls), some clubs at various age groups really struggle.  That doesn't seem like an optimal situation for anyone.


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## Highlander (Feb 3, 2022)

youthsportsugghhh said:


> If they can get the people to come to their clubs and have consistently high level of play what would be the incentive to allow more clubs come into the fold.  When the DA folded -- Lamorinda, Quakes/FC Bay Area/Bay area Surf, Placer were all available for ECNL and were "left out".  They are also pretty paired up as well with the 8 clubs in.  Personally I like NPL where all the teams can compete and no national travel, but like I say above people always want the Shiny Object and the Green Grass.


Couldn't agree with you more on the NPL thing. I have a buddy with a kid in ECNL and they have to travel to Boise/Seattle/etc and some of the players barely play. Crazy.


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## Highlander (Feb 3, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> I think one of the problems with ECNL is the binary nature of it.  Clubs are all in or all out.  Yet, if you go look at the ECNL standings (boys and girls), some clubs at various age groups really struggle.  That doesn't seem like an optimal situation for anyone.


I've looked at those standings too...some of those teams are getting crushed. NPL with pro/rel is so much better.


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## youthsportsugghhh (Feb 3, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Couldn't agree with you more on the NPL thing. I have a buddy with a kid in ECNL and they have to travel to Boise/Seattle/etc and some of the players barely play. Crazy.


DA was worse on the travel!! ECNL isn't that horrific on travel and the schedule at least compared to what we were used to with the DA.


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## dad4 (Feb 3, 2022)

youthsportsugghhh said:


> DA was worse on the travel!! ECNL isn't that horrific on travel and the schedule at least compared to what we were used to with the DA.


For travel, NPL is hard to beat.  Take the top 8 or 10 teams in NorCal and let them play each other.

Most other models you end up flying past decent teams on your way to play weaker competition.


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## Anon9 (Feb 10, 2022)

dad4 said:


> For travel, NPL is hard to beat.  Take the top 8 or 10 teams in NorCal and let them play each other.
> 
> Most other models you end up flying past decent teams on your way to play weaker competition.


In ECNL, you travel once a year for league games. DA was a travel nightmare.....


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## GoldenGate (Feb 10, 2022)

ECNL will never add Central California teams, at least on the girls side.  There are enough good clubs in the Bay Area and therefore no need to travel that far.  The entire point of ECNL is to allow the best clubs to stop having to put up with riff raff, which is not good for business. Never in history has there been a Bay Area ECNL parent/customer who has said "heck yeah, I want to drive my daughter three hours each way to play that team in the Central Valley".  Regardless, never in history has there been a single Central Valley team, let alone one in every age group at a club, with enough talented girls whose parents have the time and money to spend every other weekend in the Bay Area for league games plus travel to the showcases.


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## dad4 (Feb 10, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> ECNL will never add Central California teams, at least on the girls side.  There are enough good clubs in the Bay Area and therefore no need to travel that far.  The entire point of ECNL is to allow the best clubs to stop having to put up with riff raff, which is not good for business. Never in history has there been a Bay Area ECNL parent/customer who has said "heck yeah, I want to drive my daughter three hours each way to play that team in the Central Valley".  Regardless, never in history has there been a single Central Valley team, let alone one in every age group at a club, with enough talented girls whose parents have the time and money to spend every other weekend in the Bay Area for league games plus travel to the showcases.


Taking a look at the top 10 NorCal teams for my daughter's year, only five are ECNL.  The other five are apparently "riff raff".  

There are good teams in ECNL, and good teams outside of ECNL.  We play against both.  There is no need to get up on a high horse when my kid could be playing soccer against good teams.


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## Carlsbad7 (Feb 10, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> ECNL will never add Central California teams, at least on the girls side.  There are enough good clubs in the Bay Area and therefore no need to travel that far.  The entire point of ECNL is to allow the best clubs to stop having to put up with riff raff, which is not good for business. Never in history has there been a Bay Area ECNL parent/customer who has said "heck yeah, I want to drive my daughter three hours each way to play that team in the Central Valley".  Regardless, never in history has there been a single Central Valley team, let alone one in every age group at a club, with enough talented girls whose parents have the time and money to spend every other weekend in the Bay Area for league games plus travel to the showcases.


I'm not so sure about your assessment. All a central valley club would need to do is partner with a couple of Turf/Sod growers + run tournaments on their land + give the property owners a taste of the $15 parking fee each weekend. 

If you're the only game in town talent will happen.

Would be an ideal ECRL situation. (At first)

Might also be a good GA option.


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## youthsportsugghhh (Feb 10, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I'm not so sure about your assessment. All a central valley club would need to do is partner with a couple of Turf/Sod growers + run tournaments on their land + give the property owners a taste of the $15 parking fee each weekend.
> 
> If you're the only game in town talent will happen.
> 
> ...


Clovis has a GA club


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## rainbow_unicorn (Feb 11, 2022)

Nor Cal ECNL geographic spread looks good compared to So Cal (still can't get over how there are four SW ECNL clubs that practice at same location with talking of adding a fifth).


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## Blank95661 (Feb 12, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> ECNL will never add Central California teams, at least on the girls side.  There are enough good clubs in the Bay Area and therefore no need to travel that far.  The entire point of ECNL is to allow the best clubs to stop having to put up with riff raff, which is not good for business. Never in history has there been a Bay Area ECNL parent/customer who has said "heck yeah, I want to drive my daughter three hours each way to play that team in the Central Valley".  Regardless, never in history has there been a single Central Valley team, let alone one in every age group at a club, with enough talented girls whose parents have the time and money to spend every other weekend in the Bay Area for league games plus travel to the showcases.


Wow, it's amazing how you know so much history about the financial resources and time of every Central Valley club. You must be a genius or an electric car driving, latte sipping, entitled douche bag.
ECNL teams don't develop kids in a special way.  The ECNL tag attracts the best players to join that club and that's why the teams get better.  Currently many ECNL clubs are still no better than most NPL teams cough* Santa Rosa cough* Marin.  
If there were 2 central valley clubs, say Ajax and Clovis, I can guarantee you they would be just as good or better than your precious Mustang or MVLA.  There are a number of central valley players already on ECNL teams so they would play "locally" which would strengthen the central valley teams and weaken the Bay Area teams.  
GoldenGate, your attitude is the problem with US soccer and I really hope you are just an ignorant parent and not part of a club.


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## dad4 (Feb 12, 2022)

Blank95661 said:


> Wow, it's amazing how you know so much history about the financial resources and time of every Central Valley club. You must be a genius or an electric car driving, latte sipping, entitled douche bag.
> ECNL teams don't develop kids in a special way.  The ECNL tag attracts the best players to join that club and that's why the teams get better.  Currently many ECNL clubs are still no better than most NPL teams cough* Santa Rosa cough* Marin.
> If there were 2 central valley clubs, say Ajax and Clovis, I can guarantee you they would be just as good or better than your precious Mustang or MVLA.  There are a number of central valley players already on ECNL teams so they would play "locally" which would strengthen the central valley teams and weaken the Bay Area teams.
> GoldenGate, your attitude is the problem with US soccer and I really hope you are just an ignorant parent and not part of a club.


GG is just being a twit.  We all know Ajax are good enough.  Their U10, U11, and U12 teams are all in the top 4 in the state.  Average rank of 3, same as Mustang and MVLA.

Looking forward to the next match against you them.


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## kickingandscreaming (Feb 12, 2022)

dad4 said:


> Taking a look at the top 10 NorCal teams for my daughter's year, only five are ECNL.  The other five are apparently "riff raff".
> 
> There are good teams in ECNL, and good teams outside of ECNL.  We play against both.  There is no need to get up on a high horse when my kid could be playing soccer against good teams.


This was also our experience. Many clubs will play both ECNL and NPL to get more games with many clubs using NPL to distribute playing time more evenly. However, as they age, that can become tricky as multiple games per weekend are less desirable and injuries start to become more common. The number of teams that can compete at the top shrunk as they aged.

Another problem with travel is the incentive to get as many games in as possible choosing quantity of play over quality. Once they hit the big field, I am no fan of the ECNL Showcases having 3 games in 3 days.


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## kickingandscreaming (Feb 12, 2022)

Blank95661 said:


> You must be a genius or an electric car driving, latte sipping, entitled douche bag.
> GoldenGate, your attitude is the problem with US soccer and I really hope you are just an ignorant parent and not part of a club.


Welcome to GG's "Delusions of Grandeur" tour.



Blank95661 said:


> ECNL teams don't develop kids in a special way.  The ECNL tag attracts the best players to join that club and that's why the teams get better.  Currently many ECNL clubs are still no better than most NPL teams cough* Santa Rosa cough* Marin.
> If there were 2 central valley clubs, say Ajax and Clovis, I can guarantee you they would be just as good or better than your precious Mustang or MVLA.  There are a number of central valley players already on ECNL teams so they would play "locally" which would strengthen the central valley teams and weaken the Bay Area teams.


Agreed - I think Ajax (in Modesto) and Clovis (Fresno area) would be the two obvious choices based on their current level of play and geography. With a reputable DOC and coaches, there is certainly enough talent to be competitive in ECNL. Add the carrot of being ECNL and more of the talented players will come. Also, the Bay Area teams that play NPL (almost all of them) drive out there to play them every year.


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## SoccerJones (Feb 13, 2022)

Blank95661 said:


> Wow, it's amazing how you know so much history about the financial resources and time of every Central Valley club. You must be a genius or an electric car driving, latte sipping, entitled douche bag.
> ECNL teams don't develop kids in a special way.  The ECNL tag attracts the best players to join that club and that's why the teams get better.  Currently many ECNL clubs are still no better than most NPL teams cough* Santa Rosa cough* Marin.
> If there were 2 central valley clubs, say Ajax and Clovis, I can guarantee you they would be just as good or better than your precious Mustang or MVLA.  There are a number of central valley players already on ECNL teams so they would play "locally" which would strengthen the central valley teams and weaken the Bay Area teams.
> GoldenGate, your attitude is the problem with US soccer and I really hope you are just an ignorant parent and not part of a club.


Im not sure it would weaken bay area teams.  I only say that because there are so many kids to pull from.  I would agree that they could be better than Mustang, but I really like the way MVLA teaches the game.  Mustang has good players that play very hard and are physical and it makes up for a lot of lack of technical and tactical abilities.  Not saying they're not good, but the focus on winning over development which isn't always a bad thing if that's the goal.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 14, 2022)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Welcome to GG's "Delusions of Grandeur" tour.
> 
> 
> Agreed - I think Ajax (in Modesto) and Clovis (Fresno area) would be the two obvious choices based on their current level of play and geography. With a reputable DOC and coaches, there is certainly enough talent to be competitive in ECNL. Add the carrot of being ECNL and more of the talented players will come. Also, the Bay Area teams that play NPL (almost all of them) drive out there to play them every year.


I can't believe we are even having this conversation.  But then again, you need to be more than your typical mouth breather soccer daddy to understand why it will not happen.  You need to understand that ECNL is not a company that makes money by adding clubs. This is not the kiddie soccer version of Field of Dreams in which if you build it they will come.  ECNL is a mechanism for existing clubs to maximize their profitability and stability, and Crossfire nor Ajax do the opposite and adding crap clubs based on the mere possibility that if you do maybe they will stop sucking so bad is absolute folly.  

As for the Clovis club specifically, there is no reason existing ECNL clubs would agree to add a club that requires driving between 150 and 200 miles to play one soccer game against a team that isn't special.  All it will do is upset their paying customers, and unnecessary travel was one of the two main reasons GDA collapsed.  ECNL will not make that mistake.  Accordingly, it doesn't matter if a club from Fresno could consistently put together enough talent to compete in every age group.  But the reality is it can't. Did you know that SoCal Blues had more players go to UCLA alone in 2020 than Fresno County has had girls play at Power 5 conference schools in its entire history? The entire point of ECNL is to help leverage college opportunity for kids, yet Fresno doesn't have girls who can take advantage.  Elite girls soccer is an expensive sport and there just aren't enough people in that area with the necessary money and time to spend every other weekend in the Bay Area or farther away, plus the 3-4 nights a week training.  It just won't happen.

As for Ajax, you have no idea what you're talking about. None of the clubs will agree because Ajax will dilute the quality of play.  Santa Rosa also won't agree because it suddenly makes their already challenging travel schedule worse.  San Juan won't because it will cut into its customer base. Worse, adding Ajax opens the door to a possible Central Valley division that would probably include a team from Fresno (too much drive to play teams with obnoxious parents) and Placer (same, plus it would result in even more lost business).  Which also means Davis doesn't want Ajax, because it could get sucked into that crappy division if it were ever created, which it won't be.

You look at this as "what is fair" and "what people deserve", rather than what does and doesn't make sense based on reality.  There are places in the US, and Fresno is one of them, that are permanently hamstrung by a combination of factors that include geography, poverty and provinciality.  It is crazy that you think Fresno and Modesto are good choices based on "geography" since, in fact, they are terrible choices based on geography. Fresno doesn't deserve to be subsidized by clubs that have worked hard to create a structure that already works.  And no one wants to drive to a relative dump like Modesto even if it's only an hour for some clubs each way.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 14, 2022)

Blank95661 said:


> Wow, it's amazing how you know so much history about the financial resources and time of every Central Valley club. You must be a genius or an electric car driving, latte sipping, entitled douche bag.
> ECNL teams don't develop kids in a special way.  The ECNL tag attracts the best players to join that club and that's why the teams get better.  Currently many ECNL clubs are still no better than most NPL teams cough* Santa Rosa cough* Marin.
> If there were 2 central valley clubs, say Ajax and Clovis, I can guarantee you they would be just as good or better than your precious Mustang or MVLA.  There are a number of central valley players already on ECNL teams so they would play "locally" which would strengthen the central valley teams and weaken the Bay Area teams.
> GoldenGate, your attitude is the problem with US soccer and I really hope you are just an ignorant parent and not part of a club.


No, you are the problem with US Soccer mouth breather.  You want to make the same mistake that US Soccer made with the failed GDA, which is to create leagues that make absolutely no sense based on financial or geographic reality.  The ECNL NorCal clubs have a great thing that has worked for a decade, and which drove a stake into the heart of the same bs that you want to recreate.  It is clear that you're a jealous cheapskate who wants to crash the gate without paying the price of admission.

Claiming a Fresno/Clovis club could ever be as good a club as Mustang or MVLA is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  MVLA in particular put more girls into Stanford the last two years than the Fresno area has had play in the Pac-12, ACC, SEC, Big 10 and Big 12 combined in all of its history. If you add in the kids that the Fresno area has placed at top WCC schools like Santa Clara and Pepperdine, you go from 2 to maybe 6 or 7. Ever.  There just aren't enough good players in that area with parents who have the time and money to do what is necessary to create a sufficient number of elite players.  And although they can occasionally put together a team that is good enough to compete against some ECNL clubs, you completely miss the point of what ECNL is since everything you say is premised on the idea of "the best teams should play in the same league" regardless of how financially unstable they are and how little sense it makes geographically. 

What is your problem with electric cars?  I take it you're unemployed PWT with a Dodge Challenger, and you can't afford ECNL because you're having a hard time making the car payments on your gas guzzler?


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## dad4 (Feb 14, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> I can't believe we are even having this conversation.  But then again, you need to be more than your typical mouth breather soccer daddy to understand why it will not happen.  You need to understand that ECNL is not a company that makes money by adding clubs. This is not the kiddie soccer version of Field of Dreams in which if you build it they will come.  ECNL is a mechanism for existing clubs to maximize their profitability and stability, and Crossfire nor Ajax do the opposite and adding crap clubs based on the mere possibility that if you do maybe they will stop sucking so bad is absolute folly.
> 
> As for the Clovis club specifically, there is no reason existing ECNL clubs would agree to add a club that requires driving between 150 and 200 miles to play one soccer game against a team that isn't special.  All it will do is upset their paying customers, and unnecessary travel was one of the two main reasons GDA collapsed.  ECNL will not make that mistake.  Accordingly, it doesn't matter if a club from Fresno could consistently put together enough talent to compete in every age group.  But the reality is it can't. Did you know that SoCal Blues had more players go to UCLA alone in 2020 than Fresno County has had girls play at Power 5 conference schools in its entire history? The entire point of ECNL is to help leverage college opportunity for kids, yet Fresno doesn't have girls who can take advantage.  Elite girls soccer is an expensive sport and there just aren't enough people in that area with the necessary money and time to spend every other weekend in the Bay Area or farther away, plus the 3-4 nights a week training.  It just won't happen.
> 
> ...


You’re clearly not from norcal if you think no one will drive to Ajax.    

They hosted state cup this last month.  _*Everyone*_ drove there.  Nice fields, too.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 14, 2022)

dad4 said:


> GG is just being a twit.  We all know Ajax are good enough.  Their U10, U11, and U12 teams are all in the top 4 in the state.  Average rank of 3, same as Mustang and MVLA.
> 
> Looking forward to the next match against you them.


Wow, that is so incredible.  I can't believe ECNL isn't tripping over itself to pick up a club that consistently has pre-pubescent U little teams among the top teams in the state.  I mean the staffing and player development resources must be insane in order to take such consistently great U little teams and then have every one of those kids either flee or turn to crap as soon as they get to the ECNL age level.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 14, 2022)

dad4 said:


> You’re clearly not from norcal if you think no one will drive to Ajax.
> 
> They hosted state cup this last month.  _*Everyone*_ drove there.  Nice fields, too.


You do not seem to understand the difference between having to go to Modesto and wanting to go.  Even a dense fellow like yourself should be able to understand that ECNL teams don't want to go to Modesto to play league games because, uh, they don't.  Also, the only reason State Cup tournaments are in places like Modesto is that the Bay Area doesn't have massive complexes at the right price point for the cheapskates who participate in State Cup thinking it is a big deal.  But do you know what the Bay Area ECNL clubs do have?  They have plenty of freakin' fields where clubs can host one game at a time, which is all they need.

Can you explain to me how San Juan benefits financially from adding Ajax? Santa Rosa? MVLA?  Davis? Anyone?


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## dad4 (Feb 14, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Wow, that is so incredible.  I can't believe ECNL isn't tripping over itself to pick up a club that consistently has pre-pubescent U little teams among the top teams in the state.  I mean the staffing and player development resources must be insane in order to take such consistently great U little teams and then have every one of those kids either flee or turn to crap as soon as they get to the ECNL age level.


I can believe it.  ECNL is just playing their little political games.  Same as they played with Beach and Legends, and are still playing with Top Hat.  

ECNL isn’t in the business of picking up good clubs.  They are in the business of extracting parent money.  As a result, ECNL is perfectly willing to schedule weak teams if they think it will be more profitable.   

For parents, it is simpler.  If there is a strong team near you, you should be playing against them.  If you are skipping one, ask your coach why.  You are, as GG said, the paying customer.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 14, 2022)

Gosh, I can't wait to get into my Tesla in Palo Alto and drive my kid 90 miles to Modesto and then back this weekend so she can play one game at a majestic soccer complex.  I know my daughter's games are only played on one field at a time, but it is just so much better when she's playing a game surrounded by other games. 

Gosh, I can't wait to get into my Mustang Mach-E and drive 135 miles each way from Santa Rosa for my kid to play a soccer game in Modesto.  In fact, I am going to personally thank the DOC at SRU for the privilege of being able to do this. I just know that Radcliffe and McGuire are going to drive out there, although they could just drive down the street next week.

Gosh, I am so glad we added Ajax.  Instead of my daughter's Davis club making a fortune hosting events at its own complex, it is just so much better to give all that money to a different club.  Plus, I get the added benefit of having to drive 90 miles each way in my Audi etron and stay at a glorified motor lodge that has a view of the 99 on one side and a youth correctional facility on the other.  What a great business decision my child's club made.


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## dad4 (Feb 14, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Gosh, I can't wait to get into my Tesla in Palo Alto and drive my kid 90 miles to Modesto and then back this weekend so she can play one game at a majestic soccer complex.  I know my daughter's games are only played on one field at a time, but it is just so much better when she's playing a game surrounded by other games.
> 
> Gosh, I can't wait to get into my Mustang Mach-E and drive 135 miles each way from Santa Rosa for my kid to play a soccer game in Modesto.  In fact, I am going to personally thank the DOC at SRU for the privilege of being able to do this. I just know that Radcliffe and McGuire are going to drive out there, although they could just drive down the street next week.
> 
> Gosh, I am so glad we added Ajax.  Instead of my daughter's Davis club making a fortune hosting events at its own complex, it is just so much better to give all that money to a different club.  Plus, I get the added benefit of having to drive 90 miles each way in my Audi etron and stay at a glorified motor lodge that has a view of the 99 on one side and a youth correctional facility on the other.  What a great business decision my child's club made.


Gosh, I ran out of logical arguments so all I have left is mockery.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 14, 2022)

dad4 said:


> I can believe it.  ECNL is just playing their little political games.  Same as they played with Beach and Legends, and are still playing with Top Hat.
> 
> ECNL isn’t in the business of picking up good clubs.  They are in the business of extracting parent money.  As a result, ECNL is perfectly willing to schedule weak teams if they think it will be more profitable.
> 
> For parents, it is simpler.  If there is a strong team near you, you should be playing against them.  If you are skipping one, ask your coach why.  You are, as GG said, the paying customer.


"If there is a strong team near you..."?  How many times do I need to explain the incredibly obvious fact that Modesto is 135 miles away from Santa Rosa and 90 from Palo Alto?  Fresno is over 200 and 160, respectively.  Also, excluding Ajax and Clovis into ECNL is the opposite of "extracting money" from ECNL customers.  It is saving them money because parents don't have to drive somewhere between 90-200 miles each way for 13 year old girls to play one soccer game.  You are truly living in opposite land where near is far and saving money is spending money.

Say what you want about ECNL, a conspiracy to extract money, "political" or whatever bs you want.  The truth is ECNL is actually in the
business of providing girls with the opportunity to best leverage their ability to play soccer into college opportunity, and it does so highly efficiently and tremendous success.  And we know it provides good value both because customers just keep on coming an because it crushed GDA like a grape.


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## dad4 (Feb 14, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> "If there is a strong team near you..."?  How many times do I need to explain the incredibly obvious fact that Modesto is 135 miles away from Santa Rosa and 90 from Palo Alto?  Fresno is over 200 and 160, respectively.  Also, excluding Ajax and Clovis into ECNL is the opposite of "extracting money" from ECNL customers.  It is saving them money because parents don't have to drive somewhere between 90-200 miles each way for 13 year old girls to play one soccer game.  You are truly living in opposite land where near is far and saving money is spending money.
> 
> Say what you want about ECNL, a conspiracy to extract money, "political" or whatever bs you want.  The truth is ECNL is actually in the
> business of providing girls with the opportunity to best leverage their ability to play soccer into college opportunity, and it does so highly efficiently and tremendous success.  And we know it provides good value both because customers just keep on coming an because it crushed GDA like a grape.


As long as you have Google maps up, how far away are those ECNL league games in Colorado and Washington?

Good thing those 13 year old girls don’t have to travel all the way to Modesto.  That would be a real pain in the tuckus.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 14, 2022)

dad4 said:


> As long as you have Google maps up, how far away are those ECNL league games in Colorado and Washington?
> 
> Good thing those 13 year old girls don’t have to travel all the way to Modesto.  That would be a real pain in the tuckus.


Again, you confuse "can" and "must".  If Colorado to Seattle is the distance standard, great, let's put Modesto and Fresno in with SoCal, which is only about 1/5 the distance.  It's much less of a pain in the tuckus for San Diego Surf to fly to Fresno for a soccer game than for Real Colorado to fly to Seattle, so therefore it's a good idea, right?  I am sure they will love it once you explain that it's only fair!  In fact, Fresno and Modesto are closer to Colorado than Seattle, so let's put them in with those clubs, and Seattle in with the Bay Area since it's closer to the Bay Area than Colorado!   This all makes so much sense.


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## dad4 (Feb 14, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Again, you confuse "can" and "must".  If Colorado to Seattle is the distance standard, great, let's put Modesto and Fresno in with SoCal, which is only about 1/5 the distance.  It's much less of a pain in the tuckus for San Diego Surf to fly to Fresno for a soccer game than for Real Colorado to fly to Seattle, so therefore it's a good idea, right?  I am sure they will love it once you explain that it's only fair!  In fact, Fresno and Modesto are closer to Colorado than Seattle, so let's put them in with those clubs, and Seattle in with the Bay Area since it's closer to the Bay Area than Colorado!   This all makes so much sense.


They could.  Or, they could put Modesto in with norcal, because Modesto is in northern California.

Then we could take some of that money we used to spend on airfare and buy you a map.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 14, 2022)

dad4 said:


> They could.  Or, they could put Modesto in with norcal, because Modesto is in northern California.
> 
> Then we could take some of that money we used to spend on airfare and buy you a map.


Yes, I have a map and also a brain, so I know they can and will leave Ajax and Clovis where they already are and where they belong, which is somewhere other than ECNL. You can engage in as much self-pity as you want, but the truth is Ajax and Clovis will not get into ECNL for the same reason they have never gotten into ECNL. They have nothing to offer and are located in remote shitholes. Just as Colorado needs to travel to Seattle to play high level games, MVLA does not need to travel to the central valley.


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## SoccerJones (Feb 14, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> No, you are the problem with US Soccer mouth breather.  You want to make the same mistake that US Soccer made with the failed GDA, which is to create leagues that make absolutely no sense based on financial or geographic reality.  The ECNL NorCal clubs have a great thing that has worked for a decade, and which drove a stake into the heart of the same bs that you want to recreate.  It is clear that you're a jealous cheapskate who wants to crash the gate without paying the price of admission.
> 
> Claiming a Fresno/Clovis club could ever be as good a club as Mustang or MVLA is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  MVLA in particular put more girls into Stanford the last two years than the Fresno area has had play in the Pac-12, ACC, SEC, Big 10 and Big 12 combined in all of its history. If you add in the kids that the Fresno area has placed at top WCC schools like Santa Clara and Pepperdine, you go from 2 to maybe 6 or 7. Ever.  There just aren't enough good players in that area with parents who have the time and money to do what is necessary to create a sufficient number of elite players.  And although they can occasionally put together a team that is good enough to compete against some ECNL clubs, you completely miss the point of what ECNL is since everything you say is premised on the idea of "the best teams should play in the same league" regardless of how financially unstable they are and how little sense it makes geographically.
> 
> What is your problem with electric cars?  I take it you're unemployed PWT with a Dodge Challenger, and you can't afford ECNL because you're having a hard time making the car payments on your gas guzzler?


I think that the GDA's failures was less to do with geographical location and more to do with stupid rules.  1) no high school soccer.  That took away ALL of the socal schools because all of the kids use that as an avenue to have fun and represent their schools and communities.  2) substitution rules.  I once was talking with the DOC from a prominent ECNL club and they expressed frustration with the 3 sub per game rule.  How is that developing players when some don't even play in a game.  3) not allowing dual affiliations.  That took teams like Force, Mustang, and MVLA have to pick and choose-remember they were founding members of the GDA and first to pull out before it even began.  None of those team wanted to also give up HS...

They had the chance to change the landscape and screwed it up royally.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 15, 2022)

SoccerJones said:


> I think that the GDA's failures was less to do with geographical location and more to do with stupid rules.  1) no high school soccer.  That took away ALL of the socal schools because all of the kids use that as an avenue to have fun and represent their schools and communities.  2) substitution rules.  I once was talking with the DOC from a prominent ECNL club and they expressed frustration with the 3 sub per game rule.  How is that developing players when some don't even play in a game.  3) not allowing dual affiliations.  That took teams like Force, Mustang, and MVLA have to pick and choose-remember they were founding members of the GDA and first to pull out before it even began.  None of those team wanted to also give up HS...
> 
> They had the chance to change the landscape and screwed it up royally.


High school soccer was obviously an important reason and probably the most one, but the travel was a close second, especially for NorCal. Teams were required to fly to OR, WA, and UT just to play league games.  They were required to fly across the country to FL (and miss almost a week of school the week before finals) in December, and then do it again in the spring to NC.  Plus another couple trips to SD.  And then some Quakes teams got a bonus trip to freakin' Kansas City on top of that. It was ridiculously stupid and financially unsustainable for many families. 

But the point here is there is zero reason any of the those clubs want to drive to Modesto or Clovis.  Not a single person here has provided a single reason that any ECNL club would benefit from adding them, because they can't.  And all this bs about how CO flies to WA so MVLA should want to drive to Modesto is the same logic as "@dad4 needs a colostomy bag to survive, so therefore everyone else should carry around as similar bag of shit too."

I should also point out that Force did not pull out of ECNL before it began.  It tried to get sneaky by creating "Thorns" for GDA while trying to keep Force for ECNL, and then got kicked out of ECNL because of it.  They are fortunate they were allowed to come back.


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## dad4 (Feb 15, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> High school soccer was obviously an important reason and probably the most one, but the travel was a close second, especially for NorCal. Teams were required to fly to OR, WA, and UT just to play league games.  They were required to fly across the country to FL (and miss almost a week of school the week before finals) in December, and then do it again in the spring to NC.  Plus another couple trips to SD.  And then some Quakes teams got a bonus trip to freakin' Kansas City on top of that. It was ridiculously stupid and financially unsustainable for many families.
> 
> But the point here is there is zero reason any of the those clubs want to drive to Modesto or Clovis.  Not a single person here has provided a single reason that any ECNL club would benefit from adding them, because they can't.  And all this bs about how CO flies to WA so MVLA should want to drive to Modesto is the same logic as "@dad4 needs a colostomy bag to survive, so therefore everyone else should carry around as similar bag of shit too."
> 
> I should also point out that Force did not pull out of ECNL before it began.  It tried to get sneaky by creating "Thorns" for GDA while trying to keep Force for ECNL, and then got kicked out of ECNL because of it.  They are fortunate they were allowed to come back.


Travel was, and still is, a problem.  

What makes you think MVLA needs to fly to Utah, Colorado, and Seattle for league games?  I understand scheduling a game between MVLA 04 and Real Co 04.  Those teams are pretty amazing, so decent opponents are hard to find for them.  

But not every NW conference team is that good.  Does the Force 09 team really need airplanes to find decent opponents?  Maybe they could win a game or two locally, first?


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## SIP (Feb 15, 2022)

dad4 said:


> Travel was, and still is, a problem.
> 
> What makes you think MVLA needs to fly to Utah, Colorado, and Seattle for league games?  I understand scheduling a game between MVLA 04 and Real Co 04.  Those teams are pretty amazing, so decent opponents are hard to find for them.
> 
> But not every NW conference team is that good.  Does the Force 09 team really need airplanes to find decent opponents?  Maybe they could win a game or two locally, first?


not sure what's the fuss about Ajax and Clovis to join ECNL. I don't think they want to join ECNL....
Clovis has GA already and as far as I know, the players and coaches are happy.
Ajax older teams barely even play at NPL level. Ajax doesn't develop players or coaches - their U little teams are great but coaches just don't know how to develop them, so players started to disappear after teams mature to 11v11 games. After the incident at U12 Statecup - Ajax Coach led bunches of parents into referees tent and harassed / yelled at refs and NorCal Officials - my cousin is one of the refs. I wonder if they will even play NorCal.
as a parent of an ex-ECNL player (she plays college now), meaningful travel is ok.  I rather travel to Utah, Colorado, and Seattle to play number one team in that area than travel to Modesto to play a team that coach have the team sit back the whole entire game hoping to tie. That's why older ECNL teams stop playing StateCup.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 15, 2022)

SIP said:


> not sure what's the fuss about Ajax and Clovis to join ECNL. I don't think they want to join ECNL....
> Clovis has GA already and as far as I know, the players and coaches are happy.
> Ajax older teams barely even play at NPL level. Ajax doesn't develop players or coaches - their U little teams are great but coaches just don't know how to develop them, so players started to disappear after teams mature to 11v11 games. After the incident at U12 Statecup - Ajax Coach led bunches of parents into referees tent and harassed / yelled at refs and NorCal Officials - my cousin is one of the refs. I wonder if they will even play NorCal.
> as a parent of an ex-ECNL player (she plays college now), meaningful travel is ok.  I rather travel to Utah, Colorado, and Seattle to play number one team in that area than travel to Modesto to play a team that coach have the team sit back the whole entire game hoping to tie. That's why older ECNL teams stop playing StateCup.


Once I walked into a youth soccer club office to drop off a check during a meeting of club execs.  They had a diagram on the white board to help visualize their 5 year plan for local domination of their competing clubs.  It looked vaguely like a plan to win the board game Risk by holding the pinch points Siam and Central America at all costs, and was about as realistic.  I laughed and told them maybe they should start by first convincing their players to pay their dues or replace them with kids who would.  Like all youth soccer morons, they believed "success" is a team of 12 year old girls winning a soccer game.  They had no clue that real success is getting those kids to pay their dues, and not just for today but for six more years.  And to do that, they needed to provide those families with value by hiring or retaining coaches who could help those families turn their dues into college opportunity.

That's a long way of saying there is no real fuss.  @dad4 is playing his own version of kiddie soccer Risk, in which he has gotten it into his head that the path to glory runs through what in real life is the remotest, shittiest hill to die on the entire map.


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## Carlsbad7 (Feb 15, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Once I walked into a youth soccer club office to drop off a check during a meeting of club execs.  They had a diagram on the white board to help visualize their 5 year plan for local domination of their competing clubs.  It looked vaguely like a plan to win the board game Risk by holding the pinch points Siam and Central America at all costs, and was about as realistic.  I laughed and told them maybe they should start by first convincing their players to pay their dues or replace them with kids who would.  Like all youth soccer morons, they believed "success" is a team of 12 year old girls winning a soccer game.  They had no clue that real success is getting those kids to pay their dues, and not just for today but for six more years.  And to do that, they needed to provide those families with value by hiring or retaining coaches who could help those families turn their dues into college opportunity.
> 
> That's a long way of saying there is no real fuss.  @dad4 is playing his own version of kiddie soccer Risk, in which he has gotten it into his head that the path to glory runs through what in real life is the remotest, shittiest hill to die on the entire map.


If you're advocating for no scholarship players it's easy to do. The club just needs to make the amount paying parents pay variable to the number of scholarship players on the team. More scholoships on the team everyone pays more. Less scholarships on the team everyone pays less. Pretty simple concept.

The problem is clubs dont want to be this transparent b/c they want to win by recruiting talent.

From a business perspective in the long run hidden scholarships will cause revenue problems and ethics challenges. 

One of the most egregious ethics issues I've seen was a scholarship player (full ride) that supposedly didnt have enough for club fees but was able to do weekly privates with the coach of the team at $100 an hour.


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## dad4 (Feb 15, 2022)

SIP said:


> not sure what's the fuss about Ajax and Clovis to join ECNL. I don't think they want to join ECNL....
> Clovis has GA already and as far as I know, the players and coaches are happy.
> Ajax older teams barely even play at NPL level. Ajax doesn't develop players or coaches - their U little teams are great but coaches just don't know how to develop them, so players started to disappear after teams mature to 11v11 games. After the incident at U12 Statecup - Ajax Coach led bunches of parents into referees tent and harassed / yelled at refs and NorCal Officials - my cousin is one of the refs. I wonder if they will even play NorCal.
> as a parent of an ex-ECNL player (she plays college now), meaningful travel is ok.  I rather travel to Utah, Colorado, and Seattle to play number one team in that area than travel to Modesto to play a team that coach have the team sit back the whole entire game hoping to tie. That's why older ECNL teams stop playing StateCup.


Sorry to hear about the U12 incident.  There is no excuse for that.  We’ve all seen games that swung on a bad call, but you have to keep your opinion to yourself when it happens.   No reason to go harass some guy who’s just trying his best.

Was this following the San Juan/Ajax game?


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## GoldenGate (Feb 15, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> If you're advocating for no scholarship players it's easy to do. The club just needs to make the amount paying parents pay variable to the number of scholarship players on the team. More scholoships on the team everyone pays more. Less scholarships on the team everyone pays less. Pretty simple concept.
> 
> The problem is clubs dont want to be this transparent b/c they want to win by recruiting talent.
> 
> ...


I'm not advocating for no scholarships.  I am advocating for making decisions that are financially sound, and putting Ajax and Clovis into ECNL is not that.  It may be that a club scholarshipping a kid is good for business, but I can assure you that making any family pay more because a kid on their team isn't paying at all will only end poorly.  In fact, although I am sure it has happened, I have never once seen a "scholarship" end well even when it wasn't some freeloader like crush who was pimping out his kid's soccer ability because he's too lazy to get a job.


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## crush (Feb 15, 2022)

SoccerJones said:


> I think that the GDA's failures was less to do with geographical location and more to do with stupid rules.  1) no high school soccer.  That took away ALL of the socal schools because all of the kids use that as an avenue to have fun and represent their schools and communities.  2) substitution rules.  I once was talking with the DOC from a prominent ECNL club and they expressed frustration with the 3 sub per game rule.  How is that developing players when some don't even play in a game.  3) not allowing dual affiliations.  That took teams like Force, Mustang, and MVLA have to pick and choose-remember they were founding members of the GDA and first to pull out before it even began.  None of those team wanted to also give up HS...
> 
> They had the chance to change the landscape and screwed it up royally.


Total control freaks is was what I saw with a Doc who spoke like a soccer pro.  Spy's, lies and so much more, it's easy to see why the older women have had issues with the men in charge and have a lawsuit.  The men are clueless with the female.  I remember driving to Long Beach to take on the powerful Beach FC team during the first year of the now failed league.  One family from Chula Vista invited their whole extended family to come watch their the dd, dgd and cousin ball in the new great GDA.  The hype was big time folks.  "My dd is in the Development Academy with US Soccer."  I won;t lie, I bragged a few times....lol!  Anyway, the whole family drove from Lancaster, San Diego and LA to see her play.  Guess what? No play at all.  Zero.  Coaches decision.  Their daughter and grand daughter sat on the bench.  Talk about being humiliated.  They drove from Chula Vista ((3 hours at least each way if your lucky)) and they watched their kid get developed from the bench.  They left, took their daughter and never came back.  That is so sad to do to 7th and 8th grader females.  If you have to drive three hours to play a soccer game that you have to pay to play in, then for the Kid's sakes, let them play in the freaking game.  The HSS thing was stupid too and they didn't realize that because the head people were either from Europe or never really balled in HS.  Clubs were so pissed off at ECNL for blocking them entry.  I'm still pissed that Deza took his Force squad to the San Jose Earthquakes mid way during the season.  I know my dd Natty wasn;t against all the best and that sucks too.


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## crush (Feb 15, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> If you're advocating for no scholarship players it's easy to do. The club just needs to make the amount paying parents pay variable to the number of scholarship players on the team. More scholoships on the team everyone pays more. Less scholarships on the team everyone pays less. Pretty simple concept.
> 
> The problem is clubs dont want to be this transparent b/c they want to win by recruiting talent.
> 
> ...


Scholarships are not meant for poor people.  That is called a handout.  If your kid can ball, clubs were handing our full rides to 12 year olds back in 2017.  It was the #1 selling point to be a part of the GDA.  The GDA club needed to be fully funded and sold that to us.  No more pay to play i was told and if I was a nice daddy and kept my big mouth shut, I could receive more prizes for my kid.  That's weird and creepy all in one.  That is a fact and I bet the fact checker will agree with me.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 15, 2022)

crush said:


> Total control freaks is was what I saw with a Doc who spoke like a soccer pro.  Spy's, lies and so much more, it's easy to see why the older women have had issues with the men in charge and have a lawsuit.  The men are clueless with the female.  I remember driving to Long Beach to take on the powerful Beach FC team during the first year of the now failed league.  One family from Chula Vista invited their whole extended family to come watch their the dd, dgd and cousin ball in the new great GDA.  The hype was big time folks.  "My dd is in the Development Academy with US Soccer."  I won;t lie, I bragged a few times....lol!  Anyway, the whole family drove from Lancaster, San Diego and LA to see her play.  Guess what? No play at all.  Zero.  Coaches decision.  Their daughter and grand daughter sat on the bench.  Talk about being humiliated.  They drove from Chula Vista ((3 hours at least each way if your lucky)) and they watched their kid get developed from the bench.  They left, took their daughter and never came back.  That is so sad to do to 7th and 8th grader females.  If you have to drive three hours to play a soccer game that you have to pay to play in, then for the Kid's sakes, let them play in the freaking game.  The HSS thing was stupid too and they didn't realize that because the head people were either from Europe or never really balled in HS.  Clubs were so pissed off at ECNL for blocking them entry.  I'm still pissed that Deza took his Force squad to the San Jose Earthquakes mid way during the season.  I know my dd Natty wasn;t against all the best and that sucks too.


Deza did not take anyone mid-season.  He did not solicit a single player to leave early, or at all.  In fact, he told all of them to stay through the end of the season, but one team bailed early because their situation was intolerable at Force at Deza left. You have no idea what you are talking about.


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## crush (Feb 15, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Deza did not take anyone mid-season.  He did not solicit a single player to leave early, or at all.  In fact, he told all of them to stay through the end of the season, but one team bailed early because their situation was intolerable at Force at Deza left. You have no idea what you are talking about.


That's a lie dude.  Trust me, I have it all!!!  I was looking for the best competition money could buy me back then.  I flew up to Seattle for Far West Regionals and no freaking Force.  Clearly they had one of the best teams and they went for the greener pasture to San Jose and the connections.  I get it but that is not trying to win a championship.  Why play soccer?


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## GoldenGate (Feb 15, 2022)

crush said:


> That's a lie dude.  Trust me, I have it all!!!  I was looking for the best competition money could buy me back then.  I flew up to Seattle for Far West Regionals and no freaking Force.  Clearly they had one of the best teams and they went for the greener pasture to San Jose and the connections.  I get it but that is not trying to win a championship.  Why play soccer?


I see.  You are bitter that Deza left Force five years after the fact because it meant your middle school daughter wasn't able to show him how she was so good that she was going to go pro straight out of HS?  Deza should have declined the job at Quakes just to make sure an unemployed freeloader dad down south got to continue his delusions of grandeur about his kid for another day.  Man, you are one fucked up fella.  Do you think your daughter not being able to play Force when she was in middle school was the catalyst that eventually resulted in a putting a pro career at 18 out of range?


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## crush (Feb 15, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> I see.  You are bitter that Deza left Force five years after the fact because it meant your middle school daughter wasn't able to show him how she was so good that she was going to go pro straight out of HS?  Deza should have declined the job at Quakes just to make sure an unemployed freeloader dad down south got to continue his delusions of grandeur about his kid for another day.  Man, you are one fucked up fella.  Do you think your daughter not being able to play Force when she was in middle school was the catalyst that eventually resulted in a putting a pro career at 18 out of range?


Well, he did meet her again when her team beat his team 2-0.  She got both goals too.....lol!!!


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## crush (Feb 15, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> * Man, you are one fucked up fella. *


That is actually what you think about yourself.  When I act like you, it's the same for me too, so don;t take it personally.  I have changed sir.  I just want the TRUTH to come out, how about you?


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## Highlander (Feb 16, 2022)

As much as GoldenGate sounds like a major asshole, I think he is right about ECNL in NorCal. ECNL isn't about doing the right thing for youth soccer, it's about doing the right thing for their and their associated clubs bottom lines. And that is why I hate it. That said, don't hate the player, hate the game.


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## Tyler Durden (Feb 16, 2022)

ECNL in NorCal is mostly influenced by 3 clubs that have no interests in adding clubs in Nor Cal.  Its a country club where membership is limited and they know they have a fertile paying parent group that will go along with pretty much anything they want to do.  Parents would pay for more travel if they were told this is what they are doing.


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## dad4 (Feb 16, 2022)

Tyler Durden said:


> ECNL in NorCal is mostly influenced by 3 clubs that have no interests in adding clubs in Nor Cal.  Its a country club where membership is limited and they know they have a fertile paying parent group that will go along with pretty much anything they want to do.  Parents would pay for more travel if they were told this is what they are doing.


As a practical matter, some teams at those three clubs are at or near the top in the nation.  Parents on those teams pay for travel because that’s the only way to get close games.

I do think ECNL needs to think hard about how to reduce travel, and how to be honest about team strength.  Some of the teams are not very good.  Flying them all over the place is a very expensive game of pretend.


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## SIP (Feb 16, 2022)

[/QUOTE]

It's so funny how people outside of ECNL complained travel for ECNL parents. you criticized force 09 not being good in other post - this made me think how a bunch of players left force to join another small club few years ago without realizing that particular head coach (even nationally known) had burned bridges within soccer communities and it's not possible for any club he related to to join ECNL. Now there is rumor that this head coach is going back to "help" US soccer, wonder if he will ditch the team like Deza...


dad4 said:


> Sorry to hear about the U12 incident.  There is no excuse for that.  We’ve all seen games that swung on a bad call, but you have to keep your opinion to yourself when it happens.   No reason to go harass some guy who’s just trying his best.
> 
> Was this following the San Juan/Ajax game?








						NorCal Referees - Incidents Edit
					






					www.norcalreferees.com


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## Jar!23 (Feb 16, 2022)

It's so funny how people outside of ECNL complained travel for ECNL parents. you criticized force 09 not being good in other post - this made me think how a bunch of players left force to join another small club few years ago without realizing that particular head coach (even nationally known) had burned bridges within soccer communities and it's not possible for any club he related to to join ECNL. Now there is rumor that this head coach is going back to "help" US soccer, wonder if he will ditch the team like Deza...







						NorCal Referees - Incidents Edit
					






					www.norcalreferees.com
				



[/QUOTE]
Name?


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## GoldenGate (Feb 16, 2022)

Highlander said:


> As much as GoldenGate sounds like a major asshole, I think he is right about ECNL in NorCal. ECNL isn't about doing the right thing for youth soccer, it's about doing the right thing for their and their associated clubs bottom lines. And that is why I hate it. That said, don't hate the player, hate the game.


This is all wrong.  ECNL clubs are doing what is best for their customers and, frankly, for any girl who wants to best leverage their soccer ability and turn it into college opportunity, and is committed to putting in the work.  ECNL has been great for youth soccer.  In fact, it has been the best thing that has ever happened to youth soccer for elite girls, for our WNT, and for college soccer.

ECNL doesn't owe Ajax or Clovis or their customers anything.  The existing ECNL NorCal clubs worked hard for decades to create stable and successful girls' programs at the older age groups, which is not something Ajax or Clovis can say.  The ECNL clubs created their league from their blood, sweat and tears most before one of those clubs existed and when the other sucked at older age groups (and still does).  Neither Ajax or Clovis is entitled to entrance into ECNL simply because they have some big pre-pubescent kids who helped them win games at U11, but who always leave because the club is too cheap to pay for coaches and facilities that can actually develop them once technical ability becomes as important as being big and strong. "Doing the right thing for youth soccer" does not include allowing clubs into ECNL that are located in remote locations and have done nothing to prove that they can develop older girls in a consistent and financially sound manner.  If they want to be in ECNL, they need to provide value rather than just whine how it isn't fair that they don't get a seat at the table in a house they did nothing to build.  

The idea that ECNL is only about doing what is best for their bottom lines is absolute b.s.  ECNL has been integral to maximizing the development of such a large group of girls that contributed greatly to the longest and most successful run of success that the WNT has ever had.  Before ECNL, girls soccer was a joke that virtually always took a back seat to the boys with respect to access, development opportunities and facilities.  

Without ECNL, there would be no professional youth coaches on the girls side like Deza, Montoya, Bobak and many others.  They only coach girls because they can make a relatively stable and decent income doing it.  Otherwise, they would have taken their value as soccer coaches where they could make a decent living (boys), or done something else.  If, like in the old days, teams could get "relegated" to lower divisions if they didn't win enough games in a season, every year great coaches would get laid off when teams and entire clubs imploded just because some kids got hurt so they didn't win enough games, or some other yahoo club managed to find a bruiser somewhere to sneak into the higher bracket, probably by jeopardizing its financial stability offering free handouts.  Without ECNL, teams would need to put winning games at all costs ahead of development.  If you knew anything about Deza, for example, you would know he never plays to win games, it is always about development.  It doesn't matter how often a goalie or defender turns the ball over, they are going to play it out of the back always.  In fact, it is astounding to see parents wigging out when Deza brings over a player during the middle of a game and has an extended discussion with them, sometimes for five minutes, making the rest of the team play a player down in tight games.  You not see this if losing games risked the team getting relegated and then the kids having to change clubs to keep developing against top competition.  It would be impossible to emphasize development over winning without ECNL. You'd also have yahoo idiot coaches rushing kids back from serious injury because they really need that win to stay in the top league because, if they don't, everyone is bailing to another team.

Without ECNL, you would also continue to see the race to the bottom when financially unstable clubs provided "scholarships" to induce kids at well-run and financially stable clubs, making all clubs financially unstable all the time. You'd have clubs with one great team one year, and the entire club gone the next.  You'd have clubs with teams at the top level folding in mid-season.  You would have kids bouncing all over the place every year.  All of that is bad for youth soccer.  

Without ECNL, you would never have seen the investments that clubs have been able to make to support girls soccer. It is only when a club has the stability that comes with being in ECNL without having to run the risk every year it will collapse that clubs can consistently draw high level players and the income they provide.

Without ECNL, we would be back to daddy ball on the girls side, not developing girls like boys, and the girls being treated as second rate at clubs and having to play on lesser fields, with lesser coaches, and travel over greater distances to do it to places like, gee, Modesto and Clovis just to play even shitty teams.  Instead, we have a platform that has made girls' youth soccer into a college admissions machine like nothing any other sport or activity in the entire United States has been able to even touch. 

The freeloaders and cheapskates who want top quality training without having to pay for it, don't understand that without ECNL, there would be no top quality training, the WNT would be crap, and the hassle of dealing with petty idiots all the time would drive most kids out of the sport. It be exactly like it was 25 years ago. ECNL provides necessary stability.  If a parent in Modesto or Fresno wants to be a part of that, they can get in the car and go where elite soccer makes sense, just like those before them.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 16, 2022)

dad4 said:


> Sorry to hear about the U12 incident.  There is no excuse for that.  We’ve all seen games that swung on a bad call, but you have to keep your opinion to yourself when it happens.   No reason to go harass some guy who’s just trying his best.
> 
> Was this following the San Juan/Ajax game?


Like I said, riff raff.  One of the great joys of being a parent with a kid in ECNL is not having to deal with this kind of b.s. on the sidelines. Places like Modesto, Placer and Fresno are notorious for this kind of crap.


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## Highlander (Feb 16, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> This is all wrong.  ECNL clubs are doing what is best for their customers and, frankly, for any girl who wants to best leverage their soccer ability and turn it into college opportunity, and is committed to putting in the work.  ECNL has been great for youth soccer.  In fact, it has been the best thing that has ever happened to youth soccer for elite girls, for our WNT, and for college soccer.
> ....
> The freeloaders and cheapskates who want top quality training without having to pay for it, don't understand that without ECNL, there would be no top quality training, the WNT would be crap, and the hassle of dealing with petty idiots all the time would drive most kids out of the sport. It be exactly like it was 25 years ago. ECNL provides necessary stability. If a parent in Modesto or Fresno wants to be a part of that, they can get in the car and go where elite soccer makes sense, just like those before them.


Unfortunately for you the few valid points you have comes with a load of bull shit. ECNL is about their bottom lines...there is zero reason other than a bunch a snobby ass parents such as yourself to not have ECNL in the Central Valley *if* ECNL was about the betterment of youth soccer. The talent is there no doubt. They just need the opportunity...you can say whatever you want about that, but you are wrong.


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## SIP (Feb 16, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Unfortunately for you the few valid points you have comes with a load of bull shit. ECNL is about their bottom lines...there is zero reason other than a bunch a snobby ass parents such as yourself to not have ECNL in the Central Valley *if* ECNL was about the betterment of youth soccer. The talent is there no doubt. They just need the opportunity...you can say whatever you want about that, but you are wrong.


???  Central Valley’s clubs need to try first, I don’t see any of those clubs trying…  why would ECNL includes a club that’s not even trying to develop their coaches and players? Opportunity is for someone that’s ready.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 17, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Unfortunately for you the few valid points you have comes with a load of bull shit. ECNL is about their bottom lines...there is zero reason other than a bunch a snobby ass parents such as yourself to not have ECNL in the Central Valley *if* ECNL was about the betterment of youth soccer. The talent is there no doubt. They just need the opportunity...you can say whatever you want about that, but you are wrong.


You seem to be all about the "betterment of soccer" and believe that propping up shit clubs like Ajax and Clovis does that.  A question then: why do you expect other people to subsidize them?  If it's so important to you, start cutting checks so they can hire coaches who know what they're doing. Maybe they can get in on merit instead of the largess of other clubs and their customers that have far better ways to spend their time and money.  

People like you and crush are always happy telling other people how to spend their money and time and, go figure, it's always on your priorities regardless of how little sense it makes. This is the American evangelical culture.  First, gimme, gimme, gimme what I want.  Second, rationalize your own selfishness based on some ethereal  higher calling - whether it's "God's will" or, in this case, "the betterment of soccer" as if either of those were real things. Finally, denigrate anyone who isn't giving you what you selfishly want by claiming they're the ones who are selfish.  Everything you say is just take, take, take under the pretense that your selfish desires are so important that people should support them. 

No, making people in the Bay Area pay gas stations and cheap hotels on the 99 is not "for the betterment of soccer".  Mustang has done great things for its community that actually are "for the betterment of soccer."  MVLA too.  And especially SRU, given its demographic and population limitations.  But you ignore all the great things those clubs have done that actually are "for the betterment of soccer" in their own communities, because you expect them and their customers to subsidize what you want in other people's communities.  Well, the truth is they do.  Many of the customers of those clubs, and probably most, provide substantial charitable giving that benefits underserved communities, whether it's supporting education, opioid abuse prevention, homeless shelters, or whatever their churches do.  What they don't want to do, however, is waste that money at gas stations to support elite youth girls soccer somewhere else, because that may literally be the dumbest possible way to support anywhere. 

Honestly, this isn't even a debate.  I'm just explaining to you why something has never happened and probably never will.  Facts are what they are.  In response, you're whining "but it isn't fair" because you apparently think youth elite soccer is some holy thing, when it is really just an indulgent kiddie sport.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 17, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Unfortunately for you the few valid points you have comes with a load of bull shit. ECNL is about their bottom lines...there is zero reason other than a bunch a snobby ass parents such as yourself to not have ECNL in the Central Valley *if* ECNL was about the betterment of youth soccer. The talent is there no doubt. They just need the opportunity...you can say whatever you want about that, but you are wrong.


The only person being snobby is the one telling other people they should support indulgent youth kiddie soccer in Modesto and Clovis by giving money to gas stations and driving six hours, instead of spending it on things that actually matter to those communities.


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## Highlander (Feb 18, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> The only person being snobby is the one telling other people they should support indulgent youth kiddie soccer in Modesto and Clovis by giving money to gas stations and driving six hours, instead of spending it on things that actually matter to those communities.


I took a look at the NorCal Girls ECNL - pretty much universally with a couple of exceptions, Marin, Santa Rosa and Pleasanton are the riff-raff that should be eliminated from ECNL. What's the point when your club is almost universally at the bottom of the table? Obviously they aren't good at developing talent.


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## SoccerJones (Feb 19, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Unfortunately for you the few valid points you have comes with a load of bull shit. ECNL is about their bottom lines...there is zero reason other than a bunch a snobby ass parents such as yourself to not have ECNL in the Central Valley *if* ECNL was about the betterment of youth soccer. The talent is there no doubt. They just need the opportunity...you can say whatever you want about that, but you are wrong.


agreed!  ECNL is about the bottom line.  ECNL was ONLY supposed to be for girls and look what they did?  Imagine being able to double their bottom line by having the  boys buy into drinking the Kool-Aid....


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## Blank95661 (Feb 19, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> No, you are the problem with US Soccer mouth breather.  You want to make the same mistake that US Soccer made with the failed GDA, which is to create leagues that make absolutely no sense based on financial or geographic reality.  The ECNL NorCal clubs have a great thing that has worked for a decade, and which drove a stake into the heart of the same bs that you want to recreate.  It is clear that you're a jealous cheapskate who wants to crash the gate without paying the price of admission.
> 
> Claiming a Fresno/Clovis club could ever be as good a club as Mustang or MVLA is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  MVLA in particular put more girls into Stanford the last two years than the Fresno area has had play in the Pac-12, ACC, SEC, Big 10 and Big 12 combined in all of its history. If you add in the kids that the Fresno area has placed at top WCC schools like Santa Clara and Pepperdine, you go from 2 to maybe 6 or 7. Ever.  There just aren't enough good players in that area with parents who have the time and money to do what is necessary to create a sufficient number of elite players.  And although they can occasionally put together a team that is good enough to compete against some ECNL clubs, you completely miss the point of what ECNL is since everything you say is premised on the idea of "the best teams should play in the same league" regardless of how financially unstable they are and how little sense it makes geographically.
> 
> What is your problem with electric cars?  I take it you're unemployed PWT with a Dodge Challenger, and you can't afford ECNL because you're having a hard time making the car payments on your gas guzzler?


Your ignorance almost doesn't deserve a response, but I'm such a mouth breather I can't help myself. If you look at Stanford's roster, there are a grand total of 3 players on the Stanford roster from MVLA or Mustang https://gostanford.com/sports/womens-soccer/roster.  And this is what you're bragging about.  So I'm going to assume you are an MVLA parent. 
Second, if there aren't enough good players in the central valley, then why in my daughters age group (08) did a small club team like Stanislaus smash Mustang ECNL's team 5-0 in a league game this fall? No one told those "poor" central valley kids they weren't supposed to beat your precious Mustang team so bad.  And no my daughter isn't on SUSC, I'm from a poorer further north.  And those "poor", less talented kids from Ajax just beat down Davis ECNL today in the San Juan Tourney.
You keep talking about cost, but one of the best clubs in the country is Crossfire Premier and their program is fully funded through a foundation. https://www.crossfiresoccer.org/latest-news/crossfire-adds-funding-to-ecnl-program/ Maybe the model you love so much that favors your less talented but rich daughter is broken.  Privilege shouldn't play a role which kids get an opportunity to play for the best clubs.  This is why our men's national team has never had a shot at winning the world cup.  In Brazil, Argentina, and most other countries that regularly kick our butt is men's soccer they don't let soccer become a class system.  They have pro/rel and let the best rise to the top regardless of where you come from financially, look at Neymar, Pele, Messi for example.
Third, your geography point makes no sense.  Look at the mountain and pacific divisions in the ECNL.  Teams have to go to other states just to crush Idaho or Portland.  So asking you to get in your Prius and drive to Modesto to play a competitive game shouldn't be an issue.  You sound like you just want to keep elite soccer for the rich white kids.  
To address your final point, this is the first time in my life I've ever been call PWT, because not one of those letters Poor, White or Trash applies to me.


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## NorCalDad (Feb 19, 2022)

Blank95661 said:


> Your ignorance almost doesn't deserve a response, but I'm such a mouth breather I can't help myself. If you look at Stanford's roster, there are a grand total of 3 players on the Stanford roster from MVLA or Mustang https://gostanford.com/sports/womens-soccer/roster.  And this is what you're bragging about.  So I'm going to assume you are an MVLA parent.
> Second, if there aren't enough good players in the central valley, then why in my daughters age group (08) did a small club team like Stanislaus smash Mustang ECNL's team 5-0 in a league game this fall? No one told those "poor" central valley kids they weren't supposed to beat your precious Mustang team so bad.  And no my daughter isn't on SUSC, I'm from a poorer further north.  And those "poor", less talented kids from Ajax just beat down Davis ECNL today in the San Juan Tourney.
> You keep talking about cost, but one of the best clubs in the country is Crossfire Premier and their program is fully funded through a foundation. https://www.crossfiresoccer.org/latest-news/crossfire-adds-funding-to-ecnl-program/ Maybe the model you love so much that favors your less talented but rich daughter is broken.  Privilege shouldn't play a role which kids get an opportunity to play for the best clubs.  This is why our men's national team has never had a shot at winning the world cup.  In Brazil, Argentina, and most other countries that regularly kick our butt is men's soccer they don't let soccer become a class system.  They have pro/rel and let the best rise to the top regardless of where you come from financially, look at Neymar, Pele, Messi for example.
> Third, your geography point makes no sense.  Look at the mountain and pacific divisions in the ECNL.  Teams have to go to other states just to crush Idaho or Portland.  So asking you to get in your Prius and drive to Modesto to play a competitive game shouldn't be an issue.  You sound like you just want to keep elite soccer for the rich white kids.
> To address your final point, this is the first time in my life I've ever been call PWT, because not one of those letters Poor, White or Trash applies to me.


Not trying to argue here on any of this, but I think many ECNL teams mix up their rosters quite a bit for non-ECNL games.  This allows them to carry bigger rosters and keep kids engaged that have high potential.


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## Highlander (Feb 20, 2022)

NorCalDad said:


> Not trying to argue here on any of this, but I think many ECNL teams mix up their rosters quite a bit for non-ECNL games.  This allows them to carry bigger rosters and keep kids engaged that have high potential.


And without fail whenever an ECNL team loses to some knuckledragger team from the valley they throw this excuse out. Blahahahahahhaha


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## Tyler Durden (Feb 21, 2022)

Stanislaus is exceptional in that age group.  With the exception of San Juan and MVLA they can beat anyone in ECNL in Nor Cal.


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## dddad (Feb 21, 2022)

Blank95661 said:


> Your ignorance almost doesn't deserve a response, but I'm such a mouth breather I can't help myself. If you look at Stanford's roster, there are a grand total of 3 players on the Stanford roster from MVLA or Mustang https://gostanford.com/sports/womens-soccer/roster.  And this is what you're bragging about.  So I'm going to assume you are an MVLA parent.
> Second, if there aren't enough good players in the central valley, then why in my daughters age group (08) did a small club team like Stanislaus smash Mustang ECNL's team 5-0 in a league game this fall? No one told those "poor" central valley kids they weren't supposed to beat your precious Mustang team so bad.  And no my daughter isn't on SUSC, I'm from a poorer further north.  And those "poor", less talented kids from Ajax just beat down Davis ECNL today in the San Juan Tourney.
> You keep talking about cost, but one of the best clubs in the country is Crossfire Premier and their program is fully funded through a foundation. https://www.crossfiresoccer.org/latest-news/crossfire-adds-funding-to-ecnl-program/ Maybe the model you love so much that favors your less talented but rich daughter is broken.  Privilege shouldn't play a role which kids get an opportunity to play for the best clubs.  This is why our men's national team has never had a shot at winning the world cup.  In Brazil, Argentina, and most other countries that regularly kick our butt is men's soccer they don't let soccer become a class system.  They have pro/rel and let the best rise to the top regardless of where you come from financially, look at Neymar, Pele, Messi for example.
> Third, your geography point makes no sense.  Look at the mountain and pacific divisions in the ECNL.  Teams have to go to other states just to crush Idaho or Portland.  So asking you to get in your Prius and drive to Modesto to play a competitive game shouldn't be an issue.  You sound like you just want to keep elite soccer for the rich white kids.
> To address your final point, this is the first time in my life I've ever been call PWT, because not one of those letters Poor, White or Trash applies to me.


4 girls from the 2x national ECNL champion MVLA '04 team will be playing at Stanford beginning this fall (with another to follow next year). It will be interesting to see how that goes.


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## SIP (Feb 21, 2022)

dddad said:


> 4 girls from the 2x national ECNL champion MVLA '04 team will be playing at Stanford beginning this fall (with another to follow next year). It will be interesting to see how that goes.


I noticed one of them is 2005 birth year, did she skip a grade? and she is on u17wnt roster with the Montoya girl. What a  remarkable young lady!


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## GoldenGate (Feb 22, 2022)

Blank95661 said:


> Your ignorance almost doesn't deserve a response, but I'm such a mouth breather I can't help myself. If you look at Stanford's roster, there are a grand total of 3 players on the Stanford roster from MVLA or Mustang https://gostanford.com/sports/womens-soccer/roster.  And this is what you're bragging about.  So I'm going to assume you are an MVLA parent.
> Second, if there aren't enough good players in the central valley, then why in my daughters age group (08) did a small club team like Stanislaus smash Mustang ECNL's team 5-0 in a league game this fall? No one told those "poor" central valley kids they weren't supposed to beat your precious Mustang team so bad.  And no my daughter isn't on SUSC, I'm from a poorer further north.  And those "poor", less talented kids from Ajax just beat down Davis ECNL today in the San Juan Tourney.
> You keep talking about cost, but one of the best clubs in the country is Crossfire Premier and their program is fully funded through a foundation. https://www.crossfiresoccer.org/latest-news/crossfire-adds-funding-to-ecnl-program/ Maybe the model you love so much that favors your less talented but rich daughter is broken.  Privilege shouldn't play a role which kids get an opportunity to play for the best clubs.  This is why our men's national team has never had a shot at winning the world cup.  In Brazil, Argentina, and most other countries that regularly kick our butt is men's soccer they don't let soccer become a class system.  They have pro/rel and let the best rise to the top regardless of where you come from financially, look at Neymar, Pele, Messi for example.
> Third, your geography point makes no sense.  Look at the mountain and pacific divisions in the ECNL.  Teams have to go to other states just to crush Idaho or Portland.  So asking you to get in your Prius and drive to Modesto to play a competitive game shouldn't be an issue.  You sound like you just want to keep elite soccer for the rich white kids.
> To address your final point, this is the first time in my life I've ever been call PWT, because not one of those letters Poor, White or Trash applies to me.


You are the stupidest person this side of crush.  You think ENCL girls should travel to Modesto because "this is why our men's team sucks".  As proof, you point to countries that kick the MNT's butt like Argentina and Brazil?  Well, if Argentina's youth system is go great, why did Messi bail for Spain when he was 12 for the most elitist club in world history?  Oh, and this is probably a good time to point out that Neymar went to a full time, live in youth soccer academy when he was also still a child.  He most certainly did not play on the Brazilian equivalent of a middle school team in Stanislaus with idiot daddy coaches dumbfuck.  He took money from a club that churns and burns 50 kids a year so that it can make money selling one of them.  Oh, and can you please explain to me how your beloved pro/rel works at the Santos youth club?  Does  the Santos U13 team play in a local league, or do their kids train day in, day out, every day living in a Santos dorm playing whoever they want, whenever they want, on their terms?  More importantly, you seem to be ignoring that Neymar and Pele didn't even get through sixth grade.  They didn't become great soccer players because they played daddy ball on the Brazilian equivalent of the 13 year old Stanislaus middle school team like you seem to think.  They dropped out of elementary school to play soccer full time.  Yes, we should definitely do what Brazil does, that sounds really smart.  Do you even know what the point of elite youth girls soccer is?  Is it so they can play on the Brazilian and Argentina women's national teams?  Or so they can get leverage their soccer ability to get an education?

Regardless, men's soccer is nothing like women's when it comes to development.  I do know a country that stands alone in terms of development of its youth players, however.  It's called the United Fucking States.  And go figure, the best women's system in the world has decided that making real clubs drive their best players to shitholes like Modesto doesn't work and is unnecessary.  If you want to point to realistic examples of actual women's players instead of some guy from seventy years ago and another who left his own country when he was 12 because it's youth system is shit, let's talk about Lavelle, Horan, Davidson, O'Hara, Mewis, Dahlkemper (MVLA btw), Pugh, Rodman, Smith, etc.  Oh, and then there is this woman Catarina Macario, whose family was so impressed by the Brazil youth system that you love that they moved her to a different continent and an ECNL club when she was 12. I mean, we should definitely do what they do with girls in Argentina and Brazil, with all their women's world cup trophies and all. They definitely have things dialed in down there with their poverty street ball, which is such a stupid way to great great soccer players even on the men's side that neither Messi nor Neymar played in after they were 12 years old.

There is also a huge difference between a team of middle schoolers who can win games on sheer athletic ability and what happens over the next four years.  Without knowing anything about this Stanislaus team, I know everything about it.  It has 11 little girls born in 2008 who can play some, the bulk of whom are sufficiently athletic to win games without much technical ability or high level soccer knowledge.  By the end of the year, those 11 kids will be down to about 9 as two get hurt, which will be backfilled by two kids who just aren't good enough because there just aren't a lot of good players in town.  Within two years, another one or more will leave because their parents can't or won't pay, and another will leave because they just aren't committed to doing what it takes to keep up from a development perspective.  Then another will get hurt.  Another will get fat eating McDonald's every night.  The best player will see the handwriting on the wall and leave for a club that doesn't have daddy coaching so she can train with kids her own ability level at a club with professional youth coaches, because her family understands what is required to leverage soccer ability for college opportunity.  By the time these kids are in 10th grade, only a handful will be left from a team that is currently so great because of a couple bruisers, maybe two others with any real talent and a bunch of decent athletics.  In short, when you thought 11 middle school age kids is enough (back when they were young enough for it to be enough), you failed to understand or appreciate what is about to happen next.


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## Swoosh (Feb 22, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Well, if Argentina's youth system is go great, why did Messi bail for Spain when he was 12?  …
> 
> Oh, and this is proba I do know a country that stands alone in terms of development of its youth players, however.  It's called the United Fucking States.


Agreed…it’s as equal if not better at development than the Czech Republic.


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## Highlander (Feb 22, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> ...
> And go figure, the best women's system in the world has decided that making real clubs drive their best players to shitholes like Modesto doesn't work and is unnecessary.
> ...


Yet you drive to subpar ECNL clubs in Marin, Santa Rosa and Pleasanton (some age group exceptions). You are so full of shit.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 22, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Yet you drive to subpar ECNL clubs in Marin, Santa Rosa and Pleasanton (some age group exceptions). You are so full of shit.


The only things full of shit are Modesto, Clovis and you.  Does Ajax even have U14-19 girls? I mean, they don't seem to even have U18 or U19 teams at all and their U17 is losing 7-0 and 9-0 to other shit clubs.  But since you think Ajax deserves to have an ECNL club, why don't you give us all a detailed analysis of how their U14-U19 girls teams are doing and explaining with examples why they are so great they deserve to be in ECNL?  Who are their great coaches on staff who are developing their talent after middle school btw? 

Eventually, Santa Rosa is likely to drop out of ECNL.  You are correct it is no longer an elite club, but that isn't a legitimate reason to add a different, longer drive to an equally shitty club in a worse place that is farther away.  SRU lacks the players and the soccer muscle that pretty much one family brought to that area for a very long time, which are problems that were exacerbated after the fire.  But it doesn't change that it deserved to be in ECNL when it was originally founded, which is why it still hangs on by a thread.  SRU has produced a lot of quality players in its history, which is more than anyone can say for Ajax and Clovis Crossfire. Regardless, the fact that ECNL clubs need to go to Santa Rosa occasionally to play a weak club is all the more reason they won't (and shouldn't) go to shitholes in the Central Valley.  

As for Pleasanton, they too have fallen on hard times and are not the club they were.  But they still have advantages over shit clubs like Ajax and Crossfire because they have access to good field space in the Bay Area, and they also aren't as bad as you think.  They're actually competitive at pretty much every age group, with only one bad negative goal differential.  Playing Pleasanton 10-30 miles away makes a ton more sense than driving 100-200 miles.  

Adding Marin was a bad idea.  Honestly I don't know what they were thinking, other than desperation when GDA started because they needed more clubs to have enough in the league.  But, honestly, adding Marin is the best possible proof that ECNL is not ever going to shitholes like Modesto and Clovis.  They'd rather take in a terrible club in Marin than take in a terrible club in one of those places.

You can hate me all you want for telling you the truth you don't want to hear. I don't care.  A lot needs to change in the Valley to create a compelling reason to include them, and that will probably never happen.  ECNL will add more Bay Area clubs instead.  There are some places that don't deserve elite soccer based on geography and demographics, and they include Modesto and Fresno.


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## Blank95661 (Feb 22, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> The only things full of shit are Modesto, Clovis and you.  Does Ajax even have U14-19 girls? I mean, they don't seem to even have U18 or U19 teams at all and their U17 is losing 7-0 and 9-0 to other shit clubs.  But since you think Ajax deserves to have an ECNL club, why don't you give us all a detailed analysis of how their U14-U19 girls teams are doing and explaining with examples why they are so great they deserve to be in ECNL?  Who are their great coaches on staff who are developing their talent after middle school btw?
> 
> Eventually, Santa Rosa is likely to drop out of ECNL.  You are correct it is no longer an elite club, but that isn't a legitimate reason to add a different, longer drive to an equally shitty club in a worse place that is farther away.  SRU lacks the players and the soccer muscle that pretty much one family brought to that area for a very long time, which are problems that were exacerbated after the fire.  But it doesn't change that it deserved to be in ECNL when it was originally founded, which is why it still hangs on by a thread.  SRU has produced a lot of quality players in its history, which is more than anyone can say for Ajax and Clovis Crossfire. Regardless, the fact that ECNL clubs need to go to Santa Rosa occasionally to play a weak club is all the more reason they won't (and shouldn't) go to shitholes in the Central Valley.
> 
> ...


To quote Jay-Z "A wise man said don't argue with fools because people from a distance can't tell who is who".   So I'm not hear to argue with your dumbass.  You can stay angry, ignorant and delusional but if you would like facts and not opinions, just listen to Christian Lavers and Doug Bracken on the ECNL podcast (episode 36 released yesterday. They explain how they want to make the pathway to playing in the ECNL more inclusive and not less. Start listening about the 20th minute.  https://open.spotify.com/episode/11SEWy5JMvv7TxCACrrzcy?si=_gdgZCaNQECdqYmB4bFYTA&nd=1 
All the hate and anger you have against the central valley is hysterical.  It's like someone from there took your wife or something and now you hate the whole region.  Open another craft beer and relax.  The point of elite soccer should be to have the best teams play each other and if we are being honest, there are only a couple good ECNL clubs in the Bay Area.  The rest are glorified NPL teams that just have different patches on their jersey and their teams finish in the bottom 2 in every age group.
Los Altos to Marin is 75 miles and Los Altos to Modesto is 87.  Do those extra 12 miles really scare you this much?  Maybe its because you know a central valley team would whip most Bay Area ECNL teams ass.  Just this weekend in the 08 age group Ajax beat Davis ECNL and tied the Force ECNL team which currently sits in first place in the bay area conference.  Ajax isn't even the best central valley team, Stanislaus is.  If either club were ECNL and they combined, they would finish in the top 3 for sure.  Saying all this to say, there is plenty of talent in the Central Valley, and if you don't want to drive and extra 12 miles for a game, then there is a level for you and your daughter and its called rec soccer.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Feb 23, 2022)

Blank95661 said:


> To quote Jay-Z "A wise man said don't argue with fools because people from a distance can't tell who is who".   So I'm not hear to argue with your dumbass.  You can stay angry, ignorant and delusional but if you would like facts and not opinions, just listen to Christian Lavers and Doug Bracken on the ECNL podcast (episode 36 released yesterday. They explain how they want to make the pathway to playing in the ECNL more inclusive and not less. Start listening about the 20th minute.  https://open.spotify.com/episode/11SEWy5JMvv7TxCACrrzcy?si=_gdgZCaNQECdqYmB4bFYTA&nd=1
> All the hate and anger you have against the central valley is hysterical.  It's like someone from there took your wife or something and now you hate the whole region.  Open another craft beer and relax.  The point of elite soccer should be to have the best teams play each other and if we are being honest, there are only a couple good ECNL clubs in the Bay Area.  The rest are glorified NPL teams that just have different patches on their jersey and their teams finish in the bottom 2 in every age group.
> Los Altos to Marin is 75 miles and Los Altos to Modesto is 87.  Do those extra 12 miles really scare you this much?  Maybe its because you know a central valley team would whip most Bay Area ECNL teams ass.  Just this weekend in the 08 age group Ajax beat Davis ECNL and tied the Force ECNL team which currently sits in first place in the bay area conference.  Ajax isn't even the best central valley team, Stanislaus is.  If either club were ECNL and they combined, they would finish in the top 3 for sure.  Saying all this to say, there is plenty of talent in the Central Valley, and if you don't want to drive and extra 12 miles for a game, then there is a level for you and your daughter and its called rec soccer.


That ECNL podcast link was/is very good. Christian is a smart guy + is saying all the right things. Surprising to hear how positive + upbeat he is about expansion. It's also intersting how understanding he is about clubs that are not performing. For those that dont want to listen to the podcast things like religation are off the table. Specifically because it would would literally kill certain clubs. Christian did strongly hint that ECRL (2nd teams) would play a much larger role in the future. Although not stated it sounded like non performers would move to ECRL and new up and coming clubs would start out as ECRL before going to ECNL.

As upbeat/nice as Christian appeared theres still a disconnect between good clubs not in ECNL and what he said about bringing on new. If ECNL truly was the best of the best you wouldnt see so many different clubs U12s in the breakout rounds of Statecup or the Finals of Tournaments.


----------



## GoldenGate (Feb 23, 2022)

Blank95661 said:


> To quote Jay-Z "A wise man said don't argue with fools because people from a distance can't tell who is who".   So I'm not hear to argue with your dumbass.  You can stay angry, ignorant and delusional but if you would like facts and not opinions, just listen to Christian Lavers and Doug Bracken on the ECNL podcast (episode 36 released yesterday. They explain how they want to make the pathway to playing in the ECNL more inclusive and not less. Start listening about the 20th minute.  https://open.spotify.com/episode/11SEWy5JMvv7TxCACrrzcy?si=_gdgZCaNQECdqYmB4bFYTA&nd=1
> All the hate and anger you have against the central valley is hysterical.  It's like someone from there took your wife or something and now you hate the whole region.  Open another craft beer and relax.  The point of elite soccer should be to have the best teams play each other and if we are being honest, there are only a couple good ECNL clubs in the Bay Area.  The rest are glorified NPL teams that just have different patches on their jersey and their teams finish in the bottom 2 in every age group.
> Los Altos to Marin is 75 miles and Los Altos to Modesto is 87.  Do those extra 12 miles really scare you this much?  Maybe its because you know a central valley team would whip most Bay Area ECNL teams ass.  Just this weekend in the 08 age group Ajax beat Davis ECNL and tied the Force ECNL team which currently sits in first place in the bay area conference.  Ajax isn't even the best central valley team, Stanislaus is.  If either club were ECNL and they combined, they would finish in the top 3 for sure.  Saying all this to say, there is plenty of talent in the Central Valley, and if you don't want to drive and extra 12 miles for a game, then there is a level for you and your daughter and its called rec soccer.


Stanislaus has a total of two girls teams, neither above U14.  They don't have a single team that even plays in the ECNL age groups. You can criticize Marin, SRU and Pleasanton, but at least they have teams. Even the mighty Ajax is barely hanging on above U13.  There is no talent in Modesto.  No coaching talent to develop kids, and not enough athletic talent with parents committed to putting in the time and money necessary to turn 13 year old children with potential into a solid college prospect.  Not even close. 

It's cute that you think the point of elite soccer is "to have the best teams play each other", when the real point is to leverage soccer ability into college opportunity. Unless you begin to understand this, and quickly, within two years you will find that the soccer dream has vaporized and all delusions about your daughter getting offers from Stanford, UCLA or even UC Davis are long gone even if they were realizable goals if you'd done what was best for her.  Sure, you'll blame ECNL because it didn't dump millions on your kid's crap club so it could hire Jurgen Klopp a to coach your kid for free, which you think makes sense because one club in American (WA Crossfire, one of the richest by the way) has a foundation, so therefore money should also fall from trees for your benefit too.  You'll also blame ECNL because it "stole" the kids who were propping up your daughter's team so they could get better coaches, training and overall competition because those families understood the real purpose of elite soccer when you didn't. They knew daddy ball would never get them there, nor would training with mediocre kids with crazy parents who thought 13 year old girls winning middle school soccer games against a pre-ECNL club meant something.    

Your way of thinking is the new American Way.  You think other people should pay for your kid's elite soccer because, if one of the richest most elite clubs in the country has a foundation, then you deserve free soccer.  You think other people should subsidize your child's development by driving somewhere between 90-200 miles.  You think other people from other shitty teams should join your kid's also shitty team to create one that doesn't completely suck because "it's for the good of soccer", as if any family owes you anything.  Everything you talk about is just gimme, gimme, gimme, followed by whining when it never happens.  But while you waste your time fighting with me about why kiddie soccer is unfair and elitist because other people aren't giving you things that you have done absolutely nothing to earn, the smart people around you are taking actual responsibility for their children's future, making decisions that are best for them, and leaving you and yours behind. 

Let me tell you a story.  My daughter once played for a truly "great" U13 team, surely better than this Stanislaus team you're talking about.  They played a team Andres Deza had just taken over that was far less athletic and "talented" at every single position.  The parents were laughing it up and high fiving as our girls rolled up the score, poaching one ball after the next for easy goals as the other team unsuccessfully tried to play it out of the back and move it around the ground, no matter how bad the score got.  It was so hilarious how stupid Deza was making the same mistake over and over again.  Six months later they played again and it wasn't funny at all.

You will find soon enough that elite soccer has nothing to do with a few outstanding pre-pubescent athletic kids showing up for a tryout when they were 9 and then trying to keep them together forever.  You will learn that the shit club that got lucky that day did nothing to earn anything, and then pissed what they had away because of they shared your petty thinking and lack of foresight.  Instead, elite soccer has everything to do with what happens after a kid turns 13.  It requires having coaches who know what they are doing, and that costs money.  It requires having field space and access, and that costs money.  It requires having enough teammates whose families are financially stable and sufficiently committed to know that they need to get their kid to soccer practice 3-4x a week for four years, can afford the travel, and that takes money.  And it requires that clubs understand what is a good reason to make families spend their money, like flying to ECNL showcases attended by 100+ college coaches or a Colorado team to Seattle because 5 good ones will and because flying is part of the culture given CO's and WA's geographic isolation.  It is also requires that they understand what is not a good way to make them spend money, like on gas money and time to drive to Modesto just because some daddy of a middle schooler is trying to prove that he's a real man by living vicariously through his 13 year old daughter.  Seriously, if you are talking about 13 year old girls winning soccer games as proof of soccer club excellence, you are lost beyond hope.  

Don't say I didn't warn you.  Your kid's soccer experience is about to get rough, and you have only yourself to blame for it.


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## Highlander (Feb 23, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> ....
> Your way of thinking is the new American Way.  You think other people should pay for your kid's elite soccer because, if one of the richest most elite clubs in the country has a foundation, then you deserve free soccer.  You think other people should subsidize your child's development by driving somewhere between 90-200 miles.
> ....


Yet you will fly hundreds of miles to play shittier clubs than Marin/Pleasanton/Santa Rosa. I think the poster above is right...someone in the Central Valley took your wife.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 24, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Yet you will fly hundreds of miles to play shittier clubs than Marin/Pleasanton/Santa Rosa. I think the poster above is right...someone in the Central Valley took your wife.


You love shit clubs so much because they're the only places that don't run background checks and where you get away molesting little kids.

I love this kind of stuff. This all started because I posted something that you and your friends didn't want to hear.  It wasn't negative or derogatory or even patronizing.  It just explained something hasn't happen and won't in the future.  That's it.  In response, I get hit with personal attacks about being a latte sipping, electric car driving elitist.  Obviously, I'm perfectly happy joining the race to the bottom,  so now here we are.  These threads usually end when they get the the child molester allegations, but let's see if you have it in you to keep ruining this. I've got more insults but, honestly, making fun of central valley clubs seems to be more than sufficient. Shoot, even pointing out facts - like Stanislaus is such a shitty club it can't even field a single team beyond U14 - is enough to get under all of your skin.  One of my favorites so far, though, is pointing out how idiotic it is to think that Lionel Messi's youth experience in Argentina's youth pro/rel system is proof that Modesto Ajax should be in ECNL, although Messi grew up on a different continent, there is no pro/rel youth system in Argentina, pro/rel also wasn't a thing when he was training full time at Barcelona's youth academy and, uh, he's a man while the country's system that he is criticizing happens to have won the last two World Cups and was unlucky not to win the one before that.

By that way, can anyone point to a girl in the last 20 years who played for a central valley club beyond U13 and went on to play at a Power 5 or good (not UOP) WCC school? I asked this before and was told instead that my wife cheated on me with someone from the central valley.


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## what-happened (Feb 24, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> You love shit clubs so much because they're the only places that don't run background checks and where you get away molesting little kids.
> 
> I love this kind of stuff. This all started because I posted something that you and your friends didn't want to hear.  It wasn't negative or derogatory or even patronizing.  It just explained something hasn't happen and won't in the future.  That's it.  In response, I get hit with personal attacks about being a latte sipping, electric car driving elitist.  Obviously, I'm perfectly happy joining the race to the bottom,  so now here we are.  These threads usually end when they get the the child molester allegations, but let's see if you have it in you to keep ruining this. I've got more insults but, honestly, making fun of central valley clubs seems to be more than sufficient. Shoot, even pointing out facts - like Stanislaus is such a shitty club it can't even field a single team beyond U14 - is enough to get under all of your skin.  One of my favorites so far, though, is pointing out how idiotic it is to think that Lionel Messi's youth experience in Argentina's youth pro/rel system is proof that Modesto Ajax should be in ECNL, although Messi grew up on a different continent, there is no pro/rel youth system in Argentina, pro/rel also wasn't a thing when he was training full time at Barcelona's youth academy and, uh, he's a man while the country's system that he is criticizing happens to have won the last two World Cups and was unlucky not to win the one before that.
> 
> By that way, can anyone point to a girl in the last 20 years who played for a central valley club beyond U13 and went on to play at a Power 5 or good (not UOP) WCC school? I asked this before and was told instead that my wife cheated on me with someone from the central valley.


You are starting to take on water, your home made canoe wasn't designed to navigate these waters....time to get a bigger boat.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 24, 2022)

what-happened said:


> You are starting to take on water, your home made canoe wasn't designed to navigate these waters....time to get a bigger boat.


Good one.  My turn.  It's also a good thing your tinfoil hat is light enough to keep your canoe from going overweight.


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## Tyler Durden (Feb 24, 2022)

There is no reason for any California team to really play outside of the State.  The exception would only be for a national championship scenario, otherwise there is enough quality competition to meet development needs.


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## kickingandscreaming (Feb 24, 2022)

Tyler Durden said:


> There is no reason for any California team to really play outside of the State.  The exception would only be for a national championship scenario, otherwise there is enough quality competition to meet development needs.


Agreed. It's also easy enough within a club to play/train against older teams or against one of the boys' teams. Traveling and playing teams from other areas is fun and can be motivating but it's certainly not vital for development.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 24, 2022)

Tyler Durden said:


> There is no reason for any California team to really play outside of the State.  The exception would only be for a national championship scenario, otherwise there is enough quality competition to meet development needs.


Wrong. Events like ECNL showcases present the best possible opportunity for over a hundred college coaches to evaluate the best talent throughout the country.  Most colleges do not have the time or the budgets to repeatedly travel all over the country evaluating potential recruits, and there is no way they're coming to CA over and over again to watch two teams play each other when they can instead watch 20 top teams in the country one place over a single weekend, which is hugely helpful to everyone in the college recruiting process. In addition, traveling out of state occasionally can be fun for kids since there is a lot more to youth soccer than becoming a soccer drone practicing 4x a week and playing the same teams over and over again.

In reality, there is no need for any California team to play outside the state except for important reasons. Honestly, playing for a national championship is probably the stupidest reason of all.  The concept of a kiddie national championship is a fake thing concocted to make daddies with low self esteem feel better about themselves.


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## SIP (Feb 24, 2022)

Tyler Durden said:


> There is no reason for any California team to really play outside of the State.  The exception would only be for a national championship scenario, otherwise there is enough quality competition to meet development needs.


Maybe for your team, it's enough competition, definitely not for the top flight teams. 
for Girl soccer, if you look at U17 and U16  age group (the 2 age groups actually matter), there are only  6 or 7 teams in the national top 30 are from California (all ECNL BTW). of course these teams will need to go out of state for competition. Also, at the U16/U17 age group, team travel far so college coaches from different area will come watch them.


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## what-happened (Feb 24, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Good one.  My turn.  It's also a good thing your tinfoil hat is light enough to keep your canoe from going overweight.


are you calling me fat?


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## GoldenGate (Feb 24, 2022)

what-happened said:


> are you calling me fat?


I don't have enough information about you to call you fat.  Just stupid.


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## what-happened (Feb 24, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> I don't have enough information about you to call you fat.  Just stupid.


ha..that's pretty good.


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## Blank95661 (Feb 24, 2022)

SIP said:


> ???  Central Valley’s clubs need to try first, I don’t see any of those clubs trying…  why would ECNL includes a club that’s not even trying to develop their coaches and players? Opportunity is for someone that’s ready.


I don’t know of many ECNL clubs that “develop” talent.  They just poach the top talent from local NPL teams and voilà, they have developed a great team. Let keep
it real, that’s all that happens. 
Coaches have to get them to play their system, but it’s 90% talent, 10% coaching, in my opinion.


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## Carlsbad7 (Feb 24, 2022)

Blank95661 said:


> I don’t know of many ECNL clubs that “develop” talent.  They just poach the top talent from local NPL teams and voilà, they have developed a great team. Let keep
> it real, that’s all that happens.
> Coaches have to get them to play their system, but it’s 90% talent, 10% coaching, in my opinion.


It's not quite that easy. However I do agree that top clubs tend to "poach" more than they develop from scratch.

After you've been around top level winning soccer for a while you can just tell the type of player thats needed to field a winning team. What you're looking for is consistantly, soccer iq, aggressiveness, natural ability (usually size for girls), skill/ability. Once you have the basics you build on it getting the players to function as a group playing posession. Once you have the team consistently playing posession you start working on different plays. The ultimate goal is to provide consistent offensive pressure the entire game + not lose posession + be forced into playing defense.

Everything above takes time to "develop" in a team. This is what top clubs develop not individual skills. Individual skills are table stakes.


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## dad4 (Feb 24, 2022)

[





Blank95661 said:


> I don’t know of many ECNL clubs that “develop” talent.  They just poach the top talent from local NPL teams and voilà, they have developed a great team. Let keep it real, that’s all that happens.
> Coaches have to get them to play their system, but it’s 90% talent, 10% coaching, in my opinion.


Top talent is going to want to play with each other, and that means some consolidation as kids get older.

It's not so much poaching as just finding your tribe.


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## Kicker 2.0 (Feb 25, 2022)

dad4 said:


> [
> Top talent is going to want to play with each other, and that means some consolidation as kids get older.
> 
> It's not so much poaching as just finding your tribe.


You DEFINITELY don’t know SoCal soccer!


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## dad4 (Feb 25, 2022)

Kicker 2.0 said:


> You DEFINITELY don’t know SoCal soccer!


I’m not from socal.

Put it this way, even if you got all the coaches to stop poaching, the top kids would still cluster together somewhere.


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## Kicker 2.0 (Feb 25, 2022)

dad4 said:


> I’m not from socal.
> 
> Put it this way, even if you got all the coaches to stop poaching, the top kids would still cluster together somewhere.


To some extent, I agree. However that geography of those clusters would be much closer to their home then it is when players are poached.


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## GoldenGate (Feb 25, 2022)

dad4 said:


> I’m not from socal.
> 
> Put it this way, even if you got all the coaches to stop poaching, the top kids would still cluster together somewhere.


Here we go with "poaching" again, as if children are the personal property of shit soccer clubs.  "Poaching" is just a code word that dads use when they're upset that the girl who was propping up their daughter's team left because her family couldn't stand them any longer.  These are the dads whose self-esteem depends on their daughter's U13 soccer team winning games.  They are the dads who are too cheap to pay what it actually takes for their daughter to develop into a college recruit, but were hoping to get away with it if only they could prevent the kids on their daughter's team who could actually play from leaving for better opportunity.

Elite youth girls soccer is a business. Like every business, they have every right to sell potential customers on the benefits of paying for their services.  If you want your kid's shit club to retain kids, they need to be a better club.


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## Blank95661 (Feb 25, 2022)

By that way, can anyone point to a girl in the last 20 years who played for a central valley club beyond U13 and went on to play at a Power 5 or good (not UOP) WCC school? I asked this before and was told instead that my wife cheated on me with someone from the central valley.
[/QUOTE]
A girl playing U14 for SUSC just got called up to a u15 national team camp. Soooooo….what’s your point again?


GoldenGate said:


> You love shit clubs so much because they're the only places that don't run background checks and where you get away molesting little kids.
> 
> I love this kind of stuff. This all started because I posted something that you and your friends didn't want to hear.  It wasn't negative or derogatory or even patronizing.  It just explained something hasn't happen and won't in the future.  That's it.  In response, I get hit with personal attacks about being a latte sipping, electric car driving elitist.  Obviously, I'm perfectly happy joining the race to the bottom,  so now here we are.  These threads usually end when they get the the child molester allegations, but let's see if you have it in you to keep ruining this. I've got more insults but, honestly, making fun of central valley clubs seems to be more than sufficient. Shoot, even pointing out facts - like Stanislaus is such a shitty club it can't even field a single team beyond U14 - is enough to get under all of your skin.  One of my favorites so far, though, is pointing out how idiotic it is to think that Lionel Messi's youth experience in Argentina's youth pro/rel system is proof that Modesto Ajax should be in ECNL, although Messi grew up on a different continent, there is no pro/rel youth system in Argentina, pro/rel also wasn't a thing when he was training full time at Barcelona's youth academy and, uh, he's a man while the country's system that he is criticizing happens to have won the last two World Cups and was unlucky not to win the one before that.
> 
> By that way, can anyone point to a girl in the last 20 years who played for a central valley club beyond U13 and went on to play at a Power





dad4 said:


> [
> Top talent is going to want to play with each other, and that means some consolidation as kids get older.
> 
> It's not so much poaching as just finding your tribe.


I agree with that. Finding your tribe is a good way to put it, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Highlander (Feb 25, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> It's not quite that easy. However I do agree that top clubs tend to "poach" more than they develop from scratch.
> 
> After you've been around top level winning soccer for a while you can just tell the type of player thats needed to field a winning team. What you're looking for is consistantly, soccer iq, aggressiveness, natural ability (usually size for girls), skill/ability. Once you have the basics you build on it getting the players to function as a group playing posession. Once you have the team consistently playing posession you start working on different plays. The ultimate goal is to provide consistent offensive pressure the entire game + not lose posession + be forced into playing defense.
> 
> Everything above takes time to "develop" in a team. This is what top clubs develop not individual skills. Individual skills are table stakes.


You are so right about size for girls...I'm a big Cal Fan and watch their women's soccer team. They play the ugliest style of soccer...just a bunch of big and fast straight line runners. Zero creativity. I feel that the smaller gifted soccer IQ types get the shaft on the girls side. I will say USC plays a fun brand of soccer and has a smaller midfielder (forget her name) who is amazing. Wish there was more of this. Most D1 women's soccer teams are so terrible to watch IMHO.


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## Carlsbad7 (Feb 25, 2022)

Highlander said:


> You are so right about size for girls...I'm a big Cal Fan and watch their women's soccer team. They play the ugliest style of soccer...just a bunch of big and fast straight line runners. Zero creativity. I feel that the smaller gifted soccer IQ types get the shaft on the girls side. I will say USC plays a fun brand of soccer and has a smaller midfielder (forget her name) who is amazing. Wish there was more of this. Most D1 women's soccer teams are so terrible to watch IMHO.


Cal plays this way because they can recruit bigger and faster + they have a limited amount of time to get the team to play together. 

If they played a similar sized team that was possession based they'd loose.

You see it all the time in the youth levels. XYZ team tears up the B level + parents get all excited that their kid/team is going to light the world on fire. It's occurring because the players are bigger, faster, stronger than the competition. That same team jumps up to the A level the next season + gets smoked by teams with smaller players that play possession.


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## soccerpalace (Feb 26, 2022)

Expansion is coming. FC Bay Area Surf and Placer United joining ECNL for the fall. This has to be in pairs due to travel. No current ECNL club can stop norcal expansion this year. ECNL will set itself apart from the Norcal GA and Norcal MLS Next leagues this year by expanding teams.


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## soccer4us (Feb 26, 2022)

soccerpalace said:


> Expansion is coming. FC Bay Area Surf and Placer United joining ECNL for the fall. This has to be in pairs due to travel. No current ECNL club can stop norcal expansion this year. ECNL will set itself apart from the Norcal GA and Norcal MLS Next leagues this year by expanding teams.


source? Not saying it's not true but just curious. If adding 2 clubs, those would be my 2 picks as well


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## SIP (Feb 27, 2022)

Blank95661 said:


> A girl playing U14 for SUSC just got called up to a u15 national team camp. Soooooo….what’s your point again?


which one?








						U.S. Under-15 Women’s Youth National Team To Hold First Training Camp Under New Head Coach Katie Schoepfer
					

Thirty-Six Players Set to Gather at the Chula Vista Elite Athlete Training Center in Southern California




					www.ussoccer.com


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## dddad (Feb 28, 2022)

Poaching?  No one is kidnapping kids and forcing them to play soccer elsewhere.  Players (and their families who can manage it) want to train and play with/against others who will make them better.  There is a kind of gravitational pull that draws kids to the stronger teams that makes their time more worthwhile than spending it with less focused, less talented teammates.  The Bay Area has enough population and density that talent clusters like MVLA, Mustang, San Juan, and Surf form and draw players from elsewhere, including from some of the other ECNL clubs.  College players emerge from other clubs but the recruiting is easier for coaches through established pipelines.  And that interest is stoked at the national events, not in league games between teams 30-360 minutes apart. 

There are clearly good players in the valley as evidenced by strong high school teams from Clovis every year.  Are their enough families there to support the expense of attending the national events and the out of state trips?  That is the real question to ask if it makes sense for ECNL to include them in its league.


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## dad4 (Feb 28, 2022)

dddad said:


> Poaching?  No one is kidnapping kids and forcing them to play soccer elsewhere.  Players (and their families who can manage it) want to train and play with/against others who will make them better.  There is a kind of gravitational pull that draws kids to the stronger teams that makes their time more worthwhile than spending it with less focused, less talented teammates.  The Bay Area has enough population and density that talent clusters like MVLA, Mustang, San Juan, and Surf form and draw players from elsewhere, including from some of the other ECNL clubs.  College players emerge from other clubs but the recruiting is easier for coaches through established pipelines.  And that interest is stoked at the national events, not in league games between teams 30-360 minutes apart.
> 
> There are clearly good players in the valley as evidenced by strong high school teams from Clovis every year.  Are their enough families there to support the expense of attending the national events and the out of state trips?  That is the real question to ask if it makes sense for ECNL to include them in its league.


The question is whether we want to have a structure which only really works for “families who can manage it”, as you put it.   We’re splitting the kids into two groups: kids from rich families and rich areas in group A, kids from poor families and poor areas in group B. 

Splitting the talent pool makes it more expensive and less competitive for everyone.  Who cares if Clovis or Ajax parents want to fly to national events?  We are talking league play.  If a norcal team is top notch, it belongs in the top norcal league.


----------



## Highlander (Mar 1, 2022)

soccerpalace said:


> Expansion is coming. FC Bay Area Surf and Placer United joining ECNL for the fall. This has to be in pairs due to travel. No current ECNL club can stop norcal expansion this year. ECNL will set itself apart from the Norcal GA and Norcal MLS Next leagues this year by expanding teams.


How do you know that? With the advent of the ECRL there are very specific metrics used to promote clubs. FC Bay Area doesn't play in the ECRL and I don't think Placer has met those metrics.

Of course nothing would surprise me with ECNL doing this and going around everything they had previously laid out in terms of adding clubs to ECNL.

Logistically those two clubs are about ~150 apart...not sure how that would work as travel buddies.


----------



## GoldenGate (Mar 1, 2022)

dad4 said:


> The question is whether we want to have a structure which only really works for “families who can manage it”, as you put it.   We’re splitting the kids into two groups: kids from rich families and rich areas in group A, kids from poor families and poor areas in group B.
> 
> Splitting the talent pool makes it more expensive and less competitive for everyone.  Who cares if Clovis or Ajax parents want to fly to national events?  We are talking league play.  If a norcal team is top notch, it belongs in the top norcal league.


Everyone should have a Ferrari!  It's so unfair that only rich people get to have Ferraris!  And we should bring the Pacific Ocean to Clovis so they have the same opportunity to surf as everyone else!  My god dude, it is axiomatic that only "families who can manage it" should be doing "it".  If families can't manage the costs of buying a Ferrari, don't buy one or whine that someone won't subsidize it for you.  If they can't manage the costs of owning an equestrian horse and property, don't buy it.  If they can't manage what it costs to be an elite soccer player, don't do it.  That might be just about the most obvious concept in history.  Almost as obvious as "why the hell would I drive my 14 year old daughter 150 miles to Fresno or Modesto other than to subsidize other people's snotty brats?"

Little known fact:  Fresno/Clovis is actually about 15 miles south of the mid-point of CA, which puts them in SoCal, so get your facts straight.  Let them go play there.


----------



## SaydeeLu (Mar 1, 2022)

Highlander said:


> How do you know that? With the advent of the ECRL there are very specific metrics used to promote clubs. FC Bay Area doesn't play in the ECRL and I don't think Placer has met those metrics.
> 
> Of course nothing would surprise me with ECNL doing this and going around everything they had previously laid out in terms of adding clubs to ECNL.
> 
> Logistically those two clubs are about ~150 apart...not sure how that would work as travel buddies.


Also curious about this. Only rationalization I can contrive is that both clubs apparently qualified in every age group for this new ECRL NorCal division... which feels a lot like NPL Champions League. I know that domination in ECRL is how ECNL Admin "justified" Beach and Legends got back in after the whole DA debacle, but can't imagine that same logic applies. Placer has already lost many key players to other local ECNL clubs at all age groups. In my opinion, Placer can't compete at the ECNL level across the board, except for maybe with Marin and Santa Rosa. I'm not being a hater, Placer getting ECNL would benefit my DD considering training proximity (she's not there now, but was in the past, and we would consider going back depending on coaching), but I have to question the dilution of talent. The strongest players from Placer's local area have already migrated to San Juan and Davis, and aren't likely to return... barring unhappiness. The remaining talented players in the area wouldn't help much depending on age group. Placer's youngest age groups are a total disaster, but not sure ulittles matter for retention since ECNL will attract talent and stronger training environments to some degree at the older ages. Also can't deny the college connections some Placer coaches have.


----------



## Kicker 2.0 (Mar 1, 2022)

SaydeeLu said:


> I know that domination in ECRL is how ECNL Admin "justified" Beach and Legends got back in after the whole DA debacle…


Just for the record, Beach and Legends we held out of ECNL by the Member DOC’s pre-GDA.  So they weren’t let “back” in, they were finally let in.

Hope everything works out for your DD.


----------



## SaydeeLu (Mar 1, 2022)

Kicker 2.0 said:


> Just for the record, Beach and Legends we held out of ECNL by the Member DOC’s pre-GDA.  So they weren’t let “back” in, they were finally let in.
> 
> Hope everything works out for your DD.


Ah, yes thank you for the correction. From my perspective, those clubs were always of ECNL caliber; the years and multiple leagues run together at this point I guess, and I forget that they were excluded prior to DA.


----------



## Highlander (Mar 2, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Little known fact:  Fresno/Clovis is actually about 15 miles south of the mid-point of CA, which puts them in SoCal, so get your facts straight.  Let them go play there.


Like I said, you do have some good points in the pile of crap you put out. Fresno isn't so bad IMHO and they are close to a lot of NorCal teams. But check this out...there is a team in NorCal NPL (South Valley Untied) that is in Valencia! They are closer to LA by one hour compared to Napa. How is it possible NorCal let them in? They should be in SoCal...this is what makes me think it is all about getting a few extra $$$ into NorCal. If NorCal wants to let them in they should play their home games in Modesto or Ripon. How in the world can you expect people to drive 4+ hours to play a game in SoCal? Totally stupid...decisions like this bring down leagues. Watch the DPL and the like start to pick off clubs because of this and because ECNL is a locked league with no realistic chance for other clubs/teams to promote. NorCal needs to figure this out or they will start to get chipped away at more and more IMHO.


----------



## Fixture (Mar 2, 2022)

South Valley United is located in Visalia, not Valencia.


----------



## Highlander (Mar 2, 2022)

Fixture said:


> South Valley United is located in Visalia, not Valencia.


Whoops! Miss typed it...yes, that is what I met....where is the edit button? LOL


----------



## soccerpalace (Mar 3, 2022)

SaydeeLu said:


> Also curious about this. Only rationalization I can contrive is that both clubs apparently qualified in every age group for this new ECRL NorCal division... which feels a lot like NPL Champions League. I know that domination in ECRL is how ECNL Admin "justified" Beach and Legends got back in after the whole DA debacle, but can't imagine that same logic applies. Placer has already lost many key players to other local ECNL clubs at all age groups. In my opinion, Placer can't compete at the ECNL level across the board, except for maybe with Marin and Santa Rosa. I'm not being a hater, Placer getting ECNL would benefit my DD considering training proximity (she's not there now, but was in the past, and we would consider going back depending on coaching), but I have to question the dilution of talent. The strongest players from Placer's local area have already migrated to San Juan and Davis, and aren't likely to return... barring unhappiness. The remaining talented players in the area wouldn't help much depending on age group. Placer's youngest age groups are a total disaster, but not sure ulittles matter for retention since ECNL will attract talent and stronger training environments to some degree at the older ages. Also can't deny the college connections some Placer coaches have.


Thank you for proving to my point. ECRL is one main key factor, but so is GA competition. MVLA and Force can only prevent local clubs from joining for so long, but it seems AM and JB will not be able to stop this form happening. ECNL like every other league is a business and like any business, they need to expand.


----------



## dad4 (Mar 3, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Everyone should have a Ferrari!  It's so unfair that only rich people get to have Ferraris!  And we should bring the Pacific Ocean to Clovis so they have the same opportunity to surf as everyone else!  My god dude, it is axiomatic that only "families who can manage it" should be doing "it".  If families can't manage the costs of buying a Ferrari, don't buy one or whine that someone won't subsidize it for you.  If they can't manage the costs of owning an equestrian horse and property, don't buy it.  If they can't manage what it costs to be an elite soccer player, don't do it.  That might be just about the most obvious concept in history.  Almost as obvious as "why the hell would I drive my 14 year old daughter 150 miles to Fresno or Modesto other than to subsidize other people's snotty brats?"
> 
> Little known fact:  Fresno/Clovis is actually about 15 miles south of the mid-point of CA, which puts them in SoCal, so get your facts straight.  Let them go play there.


More to the point, do we really need one set of roads for Ferraris and a second set of roads for Fords?

It's worse than that.  75% of your "Ferraris" have a 1.6L four-banger under the hood.  

Take a look at the 2009 Champions League.  Only two 2009 ECNL teams qualified.  Your other six "Ferraris" got smoked by Ford Mustang SVTs.  This is what happens when you slap a Ferrari crest on a sedan.


----------



## davin (Mar 3, 2022)

dad4 said:


> More to the point, do we really need one set of roads for Ferraris and a second set of roads for Fords?
> 
> It's worse than that.  75% of your "Ferraris" have a 1.6L four-banger under the hood.
> 
> Take a look at the 2009 Champions League.  Only two 2009 ECNL teams qualified.  Your other six "Ferraris" got smoked by Ford Mustang SVTs.  This is what happens when you slap a Ferrari crest on a sedan.


Come on, bro. You're talking nonsense. No, ECNL teams did not get "smoked" in qualifying during the fall season. In fact, no 2009 ECNL teams even played NPL in the fall. The only ECNL team that played in the 2009 NPL age group during the fall was a 2010 team playing a year up, and they finished near the top of the division. Here's the fall schedule and standings for your reference. https://system.gotsport.com/org_event/events/4892#girls


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## dad4 (Mar 3, 2022)

davin said:


> Come on, bro. You're talking nonsense. No, ECNL teams did not get "smoked" in qualifying during the fall season. In fact, no 2009 ECNL teams even played NPL in the fall. The only ECNL team that played in the 2009 NPL age group during the fall was a 2010 team playing a year up, and they finished near the top of the division. Here's the fall schedule and standings for your reference. https://system.gotsport.com/org_event/events/4892#girls


You’re looking in the wrong spot.  That’s the second tier.

The top 2009 teams were over here:



			GotSport
		


Santa Rosa, Force, Davis, Mustang, Marin, Rage, San Juan, and MVLA are all there.  Top half, but not dominant.   Three out of four divisions went to non-ECNL clubs.  (Pumas, Walnut Creek, and LGU)


----------



## SIP (Mar 3, 2022)

dad4 said:


> You’re looking in the wrong spot.  That’s the second tier.
> 
> The top 2009 teams were over here:
> 
> ...


Just checked the U13 Champions League teams. 
looks like  MVLA 10G is in 09 Champions League ? maybe the competition is not enough for MVLA 09G?


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## GoldenGate (Mar 3, 2022)

soccerpalace said:


> Thank you for proving to my point. ECRL is one main key factor, but so is GA competition. MVLA and Force can only prevent local clubs from joining for so long, but it seems AM and JB will not be able to stop this form happening. ECNL like every other league is a business and like any business, they need to expand.


Businesses don't "need to expand".  History is littered with companies that failed relying on that trope.  Most businesses do quite well as they are because they don't confuse business with a game of Risk.  More importantly, you can't  talk about this properly  until you understand ECNL is just an association of its member clubs, so you need to look at the business interests of the members, not the league.  Although they would certainly like to expand their own clubs if it means more profit, the last thing they want to do is help their competitors take their business to their detriment. Only when adding new clubs benefits existing ones does addition make sense. It is very simple. 

Surf is a great case study and people who know what to look for could see the train wreck coming. Surf excluded other local clubs from ECNL because it didn't want to lose business, no matter how little or short term. That was the right decision for many years until it wasn't. Surf wasn't a "monopoly" in the legal sense, but it was kinda like that with elite girls soccer in SD.  Go figure, it eventually suffered a similar fate to many monopolies.  Specifically, although Surf's ECNL veto allowed it to establish impossible barriers to entry to competitors, its lack of innovation, the market inefficiencies it caused, and its failure to sufficiently consider the long term impacts of its decisions caused it to lose it's perch at the top, or nearly did but for sheer luck. 

Fast forward to GDA.  SD reached a point that too many customers existed for Surf to adequately serve enough of them.  The area is too vast with too many people. It left a gap for other clubs to develop sufficient resources that, in turn, allowed them to provide consistent training and competition that was close enough to what Surf provided at reasonable prices, and often less of a time burden to get to practice and games.  Time is money and unnecessary gas money is also money.  when the 800-pound national gorilla US Soccer came to Surf's little fiefdom and threatened to crush ECNL like a grape, other clubs had their chance.  Suddenly, all Surf's power and control over elite girls soccer vaporized, leaving Surf to panic and join GDA as a hedge against getting killed off completely.  All this left Surf unable to control the commodity of elite girls soccer in SD, leaving it no choice but to do what it could to just to stay in the mix.

In hindsight, Surf and ECNL should have admitted a few clubs much earlier, which would have better allowed them to minimize the short term impact on customer loss.  In fact, it might have helped business by relieving some of the financial burden on customers for travel and allowing them to charge the same price for a slightly better product.  More importantly, GDA probably would have been over before it started because it would have lacked the leverage to make Surf (and Blues) bend the knee using other pretty good clubs as leverage for the hostile takeover.  The funny thing is Surf and Blues were saved by US Soccer's utter incompetence, primarily its failure to understand this is all just a business, parents are customers, it is only works by keeping this in mind at all times.  When a club like MLVA in NorCal told US Soccer to stick it, it was the best (or maybe luckiest) decision it ever made.  Tophat, on the other hand, got what was coming to a bully that has never played nice with its neighbors but now relying on them for forgiveness.  It's sad to see what is happening to them, but payback's a bitch.

When people like crushy poo lament that clubs have all the power, they have no idea what they're talking about.  Parents collectively have all the power, but things move slowly.  What people like him are really railing against, but too stupid to understand, is that they didn't get what they wanted regardless of how unreasonable and how little economic sense it made.


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## GoldenGate (Mar 3, 2022)

dad4 said:


> You’re looking in the wrong spot.  That’s the second tier.
> 
> The top 2009 teams were over here:
> 
> ...


Why are we talking about 12 year olds again?  What does that have to do with ECNL?


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## dad4 (Mar 3, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Why are we talking about 12 year olds again?  What does that have to do with ECNL?


ECNL is putting those 12 year olds on planes to go play other 12 year olds.

Why?  Damned if I know.  The 12 year olds from Force are ranked 515.  Rage 12 year olds are ranked 363.  But for some reason ECNL thinks these super stars need airplanes to find a worthy opponent.

I agree it's pointless.  But it's what ECNL is doing.


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## Highlander (Mar 4, 2022)

dad4 said:


> Santa Rosa, Force, Davis, Mustang, Marin, Rage, San Juan, and MVLA are all there. Top half, but not dominant. Three out of four divisions went to non-ECNL clubs. (Pumas, Walnut Creek, and LGU)


That Pumas team won state cup and I would bet $$$ that they would beat every ECNL team in NorCal. If they ever disband a bunch of players on San Juan and Davis should pack their bags for the B team. San Juan is already super good...if they took the top 6 players from Pumas they would become the best team in the nation at that age group...which I know is totally stupid to think about for youth soccer, but I have time to burn. LMAO


----------



## FutbolHeidiHo (Mar 4, 2022)

dddad said:


> Poaching?  No one is kidnapping kids and forcing them to play soccer elsewhere.  Players (and their families who can manage it) want to train and play with/against others who will make them better.  There is a kind of gravitational pull that draws kids to the stronger teams that makes their time more worthwhile than spending it with less focused, less talented teammates.  The Bay Area has enough population and density that talent clusters like MVLA, Mustang, San Juan, and Surf form and draw players from elsewhere, including from some of the other ECNL clubs.  College players emerge from other clubs but the recruiting is easier for coaches through established pipelines.  And that interest is stoked at the national events, not in league games between teams 30-360 minutes apart.
> 
> There are clearly good players in the valley as evidenced by strong high school teams from Clovis every year.  Are their enough families there to support the expense of attending the national events and the out of state trips?  That is the real question to ask if it makes sense for ECNL to include them in its league.


I agree with the statement that there are usually some strong players from the valley.  Strong high school teams are not a reflection of strong players though.  With the exception of a couple SoCal teams I can think of from all the high school I have watched high school teams (not just in the valley but maybe especially there) that have success have one or two really talented soccer players who might go on to play in college and the rest are good athletes and they have a coach who knows how to leverage what they have.  The basic economic dont seem to make sense for ecnl in th evalley though.  Just not enough upper to middle class money there to pay that kind of money.  because it is ridiculous amounts of money.  I feel bad for parents who really think they will get college money out of it, or at least meaningful college money.  The best valley kids have guest played with ecnl teams for years and I don't see why that just won't continue to be the case.


----------



## dad4 (Mar 4, 2022)

Highlander said:


> That Pumas team won state cup and I would bet $$$ that they would beat every ECNL team in NorCal. If they ever disband a bunch of players on San Juan and Davis should pack their bags for the B team. San Juan is already super good...if they took the top 6 players from Pumas they would become the best team in the nation at that age group...which I know is totally stupid to think about for youth soccer, but I have time to burn. LMAO


You’d bet money on 12 and 13 year old girls soccer?  That’s some gambling addiction.


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## Highlander (Mar 4, 2022)

dad4 said:


> You’d bet money on 12 and 13 year old girls soccer?  That’s some gambling addiction.


Ya, I've got problems. Just joking...I would wager a beer on it for fun though! LOL


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## Highlander (Mar 4, 2022)

FutbolHeidiHo said:


> I agree with the statement that there are usually some strong players from the valley.  Strong high school teams are not a reflection of strong players though.  With the exception of a couple SoCal teams I can think of from all the high school I have watched high school teams (not just in the valley but maybe especially there) that have success have one or two really talented soccer players who might go on to play in college and the rest are good athletes and they have a coach who knows how to leverage what they have.  The basic economic dont seem to make sense for ecnl in th evalley though.  Just not enough upper to middle class money there to pay that kind of money.  because it is ridiculous amounts of money.  I feel bad for parents who really think they will get college money out of it, or at least meaningful college money.  The best valley kids have guest played with ecnl teams for years and I don't see why that just won't continue to be the case.


So true about the amount of money...I have a buddy with a kid in ECNL...he told me they spent $20K+ last year when they added up all the travel, soccer fees, etc. How much better would a kid be off if the parents put those $$$ into a college fund or savings account!!!


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## soccer4us (Mar 4, 2022)

Highlander said:


> That Pumas team won state cup and I would bet $$$ that they would beat every ECNL team in NorCal. If they ever disband a bunch of players on San Juan and Davis should pack their bags for the B team. San Juan is already super good...if they took the top 6 players from Pumas they would become the best team in the nation at that age group...which I know is totally stupid to think about for youth soccer, but I have time to burn. LMAO


I will say I think the 09 age group has the most non ECNL quality teams compared to other age groups. Who knows how long it will last but plenty of solid or better non ECNL teams that age. Great for overall competition.


----------



## dad4 (Mar 4, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Ya, I've got problems. Just joking...I would wager a beer on it for fun though! LOL


Fair enough.

I think the San Juan/Pumas game will be the one to watch in NPL this spring.  San Juan might cost you a beer.


----------



## dddad (Mar 6, 2022)

FutbolHeidiHo said:


> I agree with the statement that there are usually some strong players from the valley.  Strong high school teams are not a reflection of strong players though.  With the exception of a couple SoCal teams I can think of from all the high school I have watched high school teams (not just in the valley but maybe especially there) that have success have one or two really talented soccer players who might go on to play in college and the rest are good athletes and they have a coach who knows how to leverage what they have.  The basic economic dont seem to make sense for ecnl in th evalley though.  Just not enough upper to middle class money there to pay that kind of money.  because it is ridiculous amounts of money.  I feel bad for parents who really think they will get college money out of it, or at least meaningful college money.  The best valley kids have guest played with ecnl teams for years and I don't see why that just won't continue to be the case.


Guest playing is the best of both worlds and something kids/families with college-playing ambitions that are not at the ECNL clubs should actively pursue if they can make it work.

The gravitational pull that creates strong club teams does not exist in high school sports, outside of De La Salle football. 

Strong high school teams often are not necessarily stocked at all positions,  but there are some exceptions around the club teams.  Division I-III winners this year: Oak Ridge / San Juan (Cal Poly, SD St, WVU), Leigh / Pleasanton-Surf (UCLA, Pepperdine); Chico / Davis (St Marys, UC Davis).  That's just a few of the seniors and does not include underclassmen.  On a longer term view, some of those teams could have a majority of their starters playing in college.

I've not seen the same kind of recruiting results out of the valley.  There's no way to know whether that is visibility or talent.


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## soccer4us (Mar 8, 2022)

dad4 said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> I think the San Juan/Pumas game will be the one to watch in NPL this spring.  San Juan might cost you a beer.


That's SJ south...not SJ from Folsom. Most ECNL teams are not playing NPL in spring it seems. SJ south is a decent side still but certainly not the main San Juan.


----------



## dad4 (Mar 8, 2022)

soccer4us said:


> That's SJ south...not SJ from Folsom. Most ECNL teams are not playing NPL in spring it seems. SJ south is a decent side still but certainly not the main San Juan.


Ugh.  I was hoping for at least one year with all the top teams in one place.  Still have 3 of the top 5, but not quite the same without SJ and Davis.


----------



## soccerpalace (Mar 8, 2022)

Highlander said:


> How do you know that? With the advent of the ECRL there are very specific metrics used to promote clubs. FC Bay Area doesn't play in the ECRL and I don't think Placer has met those metrics.
> 
> Of course nothing would surprise me with ECNL doing this and going around everything they had previously laid out in terms of adding clubs to ECNL.
> 
> Logistically those two clubs are about ~150 apart...not sure how that would work as travel buddies.


FCBA has ECRL teams in almost every age group. Travel partners means teams fly in and play two games, not necessarily they fly in and play Placer Saturday and FCBA Sunday. ECRL on the girls isn't based promotion and relegation, rather standings and standards.


----------



## soccerpalace (Mar 8, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Businesses don't "need to expand".  History is littered with companies that failed relying on that trope.  Most businesses do quite well as they are because they don't confuse business with a game of Risk.  More importantly, you can't  talk about this properly  until you understand ECNL is just an association of its member clubs, so you need to look at the business interests of the members, not the league.  Although they would certainly like to expand their own clubs if it means more profit, the last thing they want to do is help their competitors take their business to their detriment. Only when adding new clubs benefits existing ones does addition make sense. It is very simple.
> 
> Surf is a great case study and people who know what to look for could see the train wreck coming. Surf excluded other local clubs from ECNL because it didn't want to lose business, no matter how little or short term. That was the right decision for many years until it wasn't. Surf wasn't a "monopoly" in the legal sense, but it was kinda like that with elite girls soccer in SD.  Go figure, it eventually suffered a similar fate to many monopolies.  Specifically, although Surf's ECNL veto allowed it to establish impossible barriers to entry to competitors, its lack of innovation, the market inefficiencies it caused, and its failure to sufficiently consider the long term impacts of its decisions caused it to lose it's perch at the top, or nearly did but for sheer luck.
> 
> ...


Love this! Great read.


----------



## kickingandscreaming (Mar 8, 2022)

soccerpalace said:


> Love this! Great read.


Are you new here?


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## Brav520 (Mar 9, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Businesses don't "need to expand".  History is littered with companies that failed relying on that trope.  Most businesses do quite well as they are because they don't confuse business with a game of Risk.  More importantly, you can't  talk about this properly  until you understand ECNL is just an association of its member clubs, so you need to look at the business interests of the members, not the league.  Although they would certainly like to expand their own clubs if it means more profit, the last thing they want to do is help their competitors take their business to their detriment. Only when adding new clubs benefits existing ones does addition make sense. It is very simple.
> 
> Surf is a great case study and people who know what to look for could see the train wreck coming. Surf excluded other local clubs from ECNL because it didn't want to lose business, no matter how little or short term. That was the right decision for many years until it wasn't. Surf wasn't a "monopoly" in the legal sense, but it was kinda like that with elite girls soccer in SD.  Go figure, it eventually suffered a similar fate to many monopolies.  Specifically, although Surf's ECNL veto allowed it to establish impossible barriers to entry to competitors, its lack of innovation, the market inefficiencies it caused, and its failure to sufficiently consider the long term impacts of its decisions caused it to lose it's perch at the top, or nearly did but for sheer luck.
> 
> ...


Are you talking about Tophat girls club in GA?

What happened to them?


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## Brav520 (Mar 9, 2022)

Nevermind I just read a whole thread about it lol

So ECNL rejected Tophat when DA folded and ECNL allows Concorde to have 2 teams per age group?

What politics are involved here , because Tophat was clearly the best girls program in the state, maybe in South ( excluding Texas ) when I lived in GA from 85- 2004ish


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## myself (Mar 13, 2022)

Brav520 said:


> Nevermind I just read a whole thread about it lol
> 
> So ECNL rejected Tophat when DA folded and ECNL allows Concorde to have 2 teams per age group?
> 
> What politics are involved here , because Tophat was clearly the best girls program in the state, maybe in South ( excluding Texas ) when I lived in GA from 85- 2004ish


After first year of girls DA the ECNL offered clubs with teams in both leagues (e.g., Slammers) 2 teams in ECNL as an incentive to ditch DA entirely.

I have no direct knowledge of Tophat's situation but I've seen it mentioned here on the forum that Tophat got on the wrong side of the political game.


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## Carlsbad7 (Mar 13, 2022)

myself said:


> After first year of girls DA the ECNL offered clubs with teams in both leagues (e.g., Slammers) 2 teams in ECNL as an incentive to ditch DA entirely.
> 
> I have no direct knowledge of Tophat's situation but I've seen it mentioned here on the forum that Tophat got on the wrong side of the political game.


Makes you wonder if its ECNL not letting GA clubs in or if GA clubs are refusing to play ECNL.


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## Brav520 (Mar 13, 2022)

myself said:


> After first year of girls DA the ECNL offered clubs with teams in both leagues (e.g., Slammers) 2 teams in ECNL as an incentive to ditch DA entirely.
> 
> I have no direct knowledge of Tophat's situation but I've seen it mentioned here on the forum that Tophat got on the wrong side of the political game.


thanks !

because I was bored , and I’m familiar with GA soccer scene as that is where I played as a young lad( plus had a sibling at Tophat) I spent about 4 hours reading a GA youth soccer forum the other day

from what I could gather , Tophat wanted same deal as Concorde , 2 teams , and also apparently GSA has veto power and is blocking them. Could be true   , could be nonsense


----------



## Unmeggable (Mar 17, 2022)

soccerpalace said:


> Expansion is coming. FC Bay Area Surf and Placer United joining ECNL for the fall. This has to be in pairs due to travel. No current ECNL club can stop norcal expansion this year. ECNL will set itself apart from the Norcal GA and Norcal MLS Next leagues this year by expanding teams.


Is this just in talks or actually happening? I’d really think about bringing my DD back to Placer if it’s true.


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## Orangeteam (Mar 19, 2022)

Unmeggable said:


> Is this just in talks or actually happening? I’d really think about bringing my DD back to Placer if it’s true.


I'm just curious.    How would the placer teams,  in their current state,  stack up to the other teams if they got ENCL?


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## Anon9 (Mar 19, 2022)

Unmeggable said:


> Is this just in talks or actually happening? I’d really think about bringing my DD back to Placer if it’s true.


I heard they both applied and are waiting to hear back.


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## Anon9 (Mar 19, 2022)

Orangeteam said:


> I'm just curious.    How would the placer teams,  in their current state,  stack up to the other teams if they got ENCL?


Better than Marin, Santa Rosa, and possibly Davis.


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## Highlander (Mar 21, 2022)

Anon9 said:


> I heard they both applied and are waiting to hear back.


Doesn't it depend on how they do in ECRL? I see they both have teams in each ECRL division. I thought they had to be at the top or near the top of the table in each one to be considered. https://system.gotsport.com/org_event/events/12045/


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## Anon9 (Mar 21, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Doesn't it depend on how they do in ECRL? I see they both have teams in each ECRL division. I thought they had to be at the top or near the top of the table in each one to be considered. https://system.gotsport.com/org_event/events/12045/


ECRL league is a way to show you deserve to be in ECNL. However, there is still an annual ECNL application window that remains unchanged.


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## soccerpalace (Mar 22, 2022)

Anon9 said:


> ECRL league is a way to show you deserve to be in ECNL. However, there is still an annual ECNL application window that remains unchanged.


Announcement coming by April 15th for boys and girls ECNL adds. Any guess who's joining ECNL on both sides?


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## Surf Zombie (Mar 23, 2022)

Five additions announced yesterday, all from the ECNL-R league.  

Two from FL and one each from VA, IL and southern CA. 









						ECNL GIRLS PROMOTES FIVE CLUBS FROM REGIONAL LEAGUE TO CLUB COMPETITION FOR 2022-23 SEASON
					

ECNL Girls is extremely excited to announce the addition of five new clubs into the Club Competition for the 2022-23 season: Beach FC (VA), Florida Premier FC, Florida West, Pateadores (CA) and Rockford Raptors (IL). Beach FC (VA) will be joining the Mid-Atlantic Conference, Florida Premier and...




					www.ecnlgirls.com
				




ECNL staggering announcements for some additional new clubs?


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## soccerpalace (Mar 23, 2022)

Surf Zombie said:


> Five additions announced yesterday, all from the ECNL-R league.
> 
> Two from FL and one each from VA, IL and southern CA.
> 
> ...


Six boys additions announced yesterday.
Two from FL, one each from OR, VA, IL and OH.
https://www.ecnlboys.com/2022/03/ecnl-boys-continues-to-add-the-best-with-six-new-clubs-for-2022-23-season/


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## SaydeeLu (Mar 29, 2022)

soccerpalace said:


> Announcement coming by April 15th for boys and girls ECNL adds. Any guess who's joining ECNL on both sides?


What?? Weren't you the one who declared it would be Bay Area Surf and Placer for the girls in NorCal??


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## soccer4us (Apr 12, 2022)

H


SaydeeLu said:


> What?? Weren't you the one who declared it would be Bay Area Surf and Placer for the girls in NorCal??


Hearing it's a done deal for those 2 clubs. Announcement coming soon within a week. Have to say I think those 2 probably deserve it based on merit and club history. Tryouts just got more fun in the South Bay and Sacramento region.


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## Unmeggable (Apr 12, 2022)

soccer4us said:


> H
> 
> Hearing it's a done deal for those 2 clubs. Announcement coming soon within a week. Have to say I think those 2 probably deserve it based on merit and club history. Tryouts just got more fun in the South Bay and Sacramento region.


I've heard the same with the same timeline


----------



## Orangeteam (Apr 12, 2022)

I can't speak for Bay Area Surf.   If this is correct I can't see the logic in the Placer decision.  The talent pool in Sac isn't as deep as Bay area of Socal.   When the DA folded all those girls went to Davis and San Juan, '06 and olders.  For the older kids it would be a big leap of faith at that high school age to head to placer.  Maybe for the youngers it might make sense and I'm sure they will start picking up kids that don't want to travel out of the Roseville area to Davis or SJ.    If kids start leaving current ENCL teams for Placer then the ECNL league has just created 3 mediocre clubs in the Sac region.   So Cal had teams that placed 3,4,and 5th last year that could have done alot of damage at Florida Nationals.   3,4,5th in Norcal after diluting SJ and Davis just doesn't seem like the same scenario we see in So Cal.


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## soccer4us (Apr 12, 2022)

Orangeteam said:


> I can't speak for Bay Area Surf.   If this is correct I can't see the logic in the Placer decision.  The talent pool in Sac isn't as deep as Bay area of Socal.   When the DA folded all those girls went to Davis and San Juan, '06 and olders.  For the older kids it would be a big leap of faith at that high school age to head to placer.  Maybe for the youngers it might make sense and I'm sure they will start picking up kids that don't want to travel out of the Roseville area to Davis or SJ.    If kids start leaving current ENCL teams for Placer then the ECNL league has just created 3 mediocre clubs in the Sac region.   So Cal had teams that placed 3,4,and 5th last year that could have done alot of damage at Florida Nationals.   3,4,5th in Norcal after diluting SJ and Davis just doesn't seem like the same scenario we see in So Cal.


I don't disagree necessarily  but we can't have every club in a national league have to be "good". It's not realistic probably in any sport. Some will great, some good, and some will struggle a bit. My guess is the HS age teams won't change a lot. Maybe bottom end of ECNL team/top 2nd team players can move to placer if want more playing time or be on a ECNL team. 

We will never have so cal depth no matter what. I don't see why San Juan would get diluted. They do well in majority of age groups. Davis is probably just far enough away from Placer for most not to get hurt too bad. If someone really wants to move, they are all close enough to make the drive.

FCBA will do well as long as they are OK financially(some rumors recently not in a great place as a club financially). I think this could effect Force player pool potentially. MVLA is a machine right now so I don't think they will lose much especially their talented ones.


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## Anon9 (Apr 12, 2022)

soccer4us said:


> I don't disagree necessarily  but we can't have every club in a national league have to be "good". It's not realistic probably in any sport. Some will great, some good, and some will struggle a bit. My guess is the HS age teams won't change a lot. Maybe bottom end of ECNL team/top 2nd team players can move to placer if want more playing time or be on a ECNL team.
> 
> We will never have so cal depth no matter what. I don't see why San Juan would get diluted. They do well in majority of age groups. Davis is probably just far enough away from Placer for most not to get hurt too bad. If someone really wants to move, they are all close enough to make the drive.
> 
> FCBA will do well as long as they are OK financially(some rumors recently not in a great place as a club financially). I think this could effect Force player pool potentially. MVLA is a machine right now so I don't think they will lose much especially their talented ones.


Force never got a boost from getting into ECNL last year, as a matter of fact they still lost players to FCBA. This will only make it worse for Force, that is struggling at all age groups except the 08's. 
FCBA has definitely had financial problems, up to and including reducing practice days to reduce their overhead costs. There are also rumors of Deza coming back, which will only put a heavier financial burden on the club. The last year Deza was at Quakes, he ran a deficit of $300k+. 
Good luck to all!


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## soccerpalace (Apr 13, 2022)

*Girls ECNL* - Placer FCBA and SF Elite
*Boys ECNL* - Salinas Odyssey SJ Surf AFC SF Elite SacUnited 
All final candidate clubs for ECNL 22-23


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## Orangeteam (Apr 13, 2022)

I'm all for relegation and promotion.  I'm just quesitoning a specific location and it's population and talent distribution by adding another team.  I think the business side of ENCL is the only winner on this one (for the specific location)   

Davis and SanJuan didn't home grow their teams, those teams have recent Placer kids everywhere.  When Placer was in the DA Davis and SJ were in ENCL.   At that point, as a coach and a parent, the Sacramento market was a bit over saturated with 3 national level clubs.   When the DA folded alot of the Placer kids who were on the DA teams went to Davis and San Juan.  At the younger ages Davis and San Juan got players from Placer who wanted to play in the DA for Placer but moved because there was no DA.     And traveling to Davis from Roseville - or anywhere that takes you over the causeway is no picnic so it for all these reasons I mentioned "dilute" earlier.


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## dad4 (Apr 13, 2022)

Orangeteam said:


> I'm all for relegation and promotion.  I'm just quesitoning a specific location and it's population and talent distribution by adding another team.  I think the business side of ENCL is the only winner on this one (for the specific location)
> 
> Davis and SanJuan didn't home grow their teams, those teams have recent Placer kids everywhere.  When Placer was in the DA Davis and SJ were in ENCL.   At that point, as a coach and a parent, the Sacramento market was a bit over saturated with 3 national level clubs.   When the DA folded alot of the Placer kids who were on the DA teams went to Davis and San Juan.  At the younger ages Davis and San Juan got players from Placer who wanted to play in the DA for Placer but moved because there was no DA.     And traveling to Davis from Roseville - or anywhere that takes you over the causeway is no picnic so it for all these reasons I mentioned "dilute" earlier.


No doubt it is dilution.  But dilution is a synonym for playing local.

I can imagine a truly elite national league.  24 teams and the top 500 players.   Those would be some great games.  

But where would the kids practice?  If you really serve the top 500 kids, a majority of those players will live quite far from their local team.  Maybe OC, SD, and Dallas could field a purely local team.  Everyone else is looking at 60-90 minute commutes for their players, three or four times a week.

And, if they create a tiny elite league, picture the distances.  How many families can afford the time and money to buy 10 plane tickets per year, just so Emma can get to league games?  Then add in hotels and plane tickets for showcases and playoffs.  That’s 14 round trip tickets per year, just for Emma.  14 more if the mom or dad want to watch.  Her family can’t afford it.

Eventually, Emma is going to quit.  

If you want Emma to actually play in your league, you need a little dilution.


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## Orangeteam (Apr 13, 2022)

dad4 said:


> No doubt it is dilution.  But dilution is a synonym for playing local.
> 
> I can imagine a truly elite national league.  24 teams and the top 500 players.   Those would be some great games.
> 
> ...



This was the DA from a few years ago. Not enought clubs within a resonable distance, long drives, flying to games, and financially straining.   That was one extreme scenario.   The middle ground is, or was somewhere else.


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## kickingandscreaming (Apr 13, 2022)

dad4 said:


> No doubt it is dilution.  But dilution is a synonym for playing local.
> 
> I can imagine a truly elite national league.  24 teams and the top 500 players.   Those would be some great games.
> 
> ...


Here's my thought of what DA should have been.
- Keep ECNL as is (work WITH ECNL)
Then something like the following
- Create 12 (8? 16?) regions in the US split primarily by geography and also by the timing of HS soccer season
- Within these 12 regions create 4 groups of 3 team pods each who share the same HS season
- During a pod's HS season, have each pod meet for three days of training and then games against each of the other teams in the pod with a day off in between (6 days + travel).
- The last two weeks of July, have all the teams meet and train for 3 days and play 4 or 5 games over 2 weeks.

This will give the USWNT an opportunity to get plenty of film on hundreds of girls against top-level competition with little disruption to the organization that is actually doing the bulk of the player development.

Also, there are ways to challenge players that don't require traveling to find better teams. There tends to be a fixation on games that count in the standings as being necessary for development. My impression is that this is generally overrated in terms of importance.


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## dad4 (Apr 14, 2022)

kickingandscreaming said:


> Here's my thought of what DA should have been.
> - Keep ECNL as is (work WITH ECNL)
> Then something like the following
> - Create 12 (8? 16?) regions in the US split primarily by geography and also by the timing of HS soccer season
> ...


I think DA was trying to create a higher level of year round training.   Not just a couple gatherings per year.

I don’t think it’s possible.  At some point, you have to admit that there are only 200 girls who qualify as “top 200”, and they don’t all live next to each other.


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## kickingandscreaming (Apr 14, 2022)

dad4 said:


> I think DA was trying to create a higher level of year round training.   Not just a couple gatherings per year.other.


DA spread their resources too thinly for nothing. They failed spectacularly. Forget trying to control the training of every girl in a national league. US soccer doesn't develop youth players, clubs do. Looking at the "big picture", US Soccer should be focused on the girls who have the potential for the National Team. They should encourage the girls with national team aspirations and their clubs to train and develop the skills the national team believes are necessary. Encourage development but focus on evaluation. Bring in more girls than they get in their typical youth national team camps (less than 50?) and see how they do against the best competition.



dad4 said:


> I don’t think it’s possible.  At some point, you have to admit that there are only 200 girls who qualify as “top 200”, and they don’t all live next to each other.


Agreed. This is why we have to be more creative than believing the only way to develop is by playing challenging games against teams in a league. For girls' soccer, ECNL is fine. Maybe US soccer can give monetary assistance to ECNL to expand in underserved areas where cost is a factor in having an ECNL team. This will expand the pool of players.


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## crush (Apr 14, 2022)

kickingandscreaming said:


> *They failed spectacularly. Looking at the "big picture", US Soccer should be focused on the girls who have the potential for the National Team. *


They failed because they tried to take ALL  players who signed up to be world class, and sold them that they they can develop anyone and make them Elite if they follow the 10 month, 6 day a week program and promise to never play another sport and never play High School Soccer.  Bring your checkbook as well.......lol.  The fully funded players went to the GDA to go after the prize.  I love your idea on Regions.  California can be it;s on region. I would love to partner with Nocal.  You guys ball up there and have a toughness that is not in Socal.  Put all the players who want IT and let them play and find 22 all in.  Its a fact; too many parents were sold a lie  and they paid to play.  This does not allow the top players to improve and 100% does not allow the real cream to rise to the top.


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## Anon9 (Apr 15, 2022)

Friday April 15. Today is the big announcement!!!!


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## Anon9 (Apr 15, 2022)

soccerpalace said:


> Expansion is coming. FC Bay Area Surf and Placer United joining ECNL for the fall. This has to be in pairs due to travel. No current ECNL club can stop norcal expansion this year. ECNL will set itself apart from the Norcal GA and Norcal MLS Next leagues this year by expanding teams.


Pretty disappointing that the April 15 date that was offered as an announcement date has not come through. I guess the wait continues......


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## Highlander (Apr 21, 2022)

What happened to the NorCal ECNL expansion announcement that some said would have happened by now?


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## Anon9 (Apr 21, 2022)

Highlander said:


> What happened to the NorCal ECNL expansion announcement that some said would have happened by now?


Expect an announcement soon. Been holding on to the information, just to make sure it's correct. But I have heard through a reliable source that it is a done deal. NorCal will have 10 ECNL Clubs, with FCBA and Placer United being added. Paperwork was finalized earlier this week, and now we are just waiting for the formal announcement from ECNL.


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## soccer4us (Apr 21, 2022)

Anon9 said:


> Expect an announcement soon. Been holding on to the information, just to make sure it's correct. But I have heard through a reliable source that it is a done deal. NorCal will have 10 ECNL Clubs, with FCBA and Placer United being added. Paperwork was finalized earlier this week, and now we are just waiting for the formal announcement from ECNL.


Yep, heard the same. Guessing an announcement Monday or Tuesday. South Bay and Sacramento region in fighting should be terrific  I hope in the South Bay all tryouts are at twin creeks on the same days!


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## GoldenGate (Apr 22, 2022)

crush said:


> They failed because they tried to take ALL  players who signed up to be world class, and sold them that they they can develop anyone and make them Elite if they follow the 10 month, 6 day a week program and promise to never play another sport and never play High School Soccer.  Bring your checkbook as well.......lol.  The fully funded players went to the GDA to go after the prize.  I love your idea on Regions.  California can be it;s on region. I would love to partner with Nocal.  You guys ball up there and have a toughness that is not in Socal.  Put all the players who want IT and let them play and find 22 all in.  Its a fact; too many parents were sold a lie  and they paid to play.  This does not allow the top players to improve and 100% does not allow the real cream to rise to the top.


Yes, too bad US Soccer didn't turn your daughter into the world's greatest soccer player at no cost to you.  So unfair.  

Also, if the cream hasn't risen to the top historically, how is it that the WNT has won the last two world cups and should have won the one before that also?


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## Highlander (Apr 24, 2022)

First Sacto Area GA team...interesting times. A lot of clubs joining the DPL too. I predict much more of this. Youth soccer is so messed up in the USA. I still think NPL has the best setup with true pro/rel.


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## Carlsbad7 (Apr 24, 2022)

Watching Inter Miami right now. Noah Allen (17yr old former MLS Next defender) connected up to his forwards who crossed to Bryce Duke (21 yr forward + former Real Salt Lake + LAFC development programs).

I see why the boys top talent flows to MLS Next. Seems like they've got funnels into MLS pro soccer covered.

Eventually if MLS Next maintains the pro connections for boys it's going to force top girls ECNL clubs to make a choice.


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## Brav520 (Apr 24, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Watching Inter Miami right now. Noah Allen (17yr old former MLS Next defender) connected up to his forwards who crossed to Bryce Duke (21 yr forward + former Real Salt Lake + LAFC development programs).
> 
> I see why the boys top talent flows to MLS Next. Seems like they've got funnels into MLS pro soccer covered.
> 
> Eventually if MLS Next maintains the pro connections for boys it's going to force top girls ECNL clubs to make a choice.


yes , there is a pathway, but there is also potential financial incentive down the road ( potential transfer fee) on the boys side. Even then not all MLS teams necessarily see the value in spending the money it cost to run a successful academy

doesnt NWSL have some clubs they are affiliated with , I just don’t know how much financially they are contributing to development


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## crush (Apr 24, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Watching Inter Miami right now. Noah Allen (17yr old former MLS Next defender) connected up to his forwards who crossed to Bryce Duke (21 yr forward + former Real Salt Lake + LAFC development programs).
> 
> I see why the boys top talent flows to MLS Next. Seems like they've got funnels into MLS pro soccer covered.
> 
> Eventually if MLS Next maintains the pro connections for boys it's going to force top girls ECNL clubs to make a choice.


Question for you bro.  If the male player is better than MLS level, do they bail and play over seas to get better?  If yes, what age is a good age?  One of my dd former coaches signed at 15 and played against CR, Messi and the flying Dutchman in Holland in Academies.  I see ECNL and GA doing more for girls outside of college soccer now.  One of buddies dd is looking at playing pro in Mexico instead of college.  I see amazing opportunities to study and play abroad for females and if your good enough and want to be a pro, you can as a girl, just like the boys can.  Four years ago I was laughed at for even having the dream ((thoughts)) that my dd can just play soccer full time and not have to worry about a full load of classes and early morning workouts.


----------



## Brav520 (Apr 24, 2022)

crush said:


> Question for you bro.  If the male player is better than MLS level, do they bail and play over seas to get better?  If yes, what age is a good age?  One of my dd former coaches signed at 15 and played against CR, Messi and the flying Dutchman in Holland in Academies.  I see ECNL and GA doing more for girls outside of college soccer now.  One of buddies dd is looking at playing pro in Mexico instead of college.  I see amazing opportunities to study and play abroad for females and if your good enough and want to be a pro, you can as a girl, just like the boys can.  Four years ago I was laughed at for even having the dream ((thoughts)) that my dd can just play soccer full time and not have to worry about a full load of classes and early morning workouts.


I think y


crush said:


> Question for you bro.  If the male player is better than MLS level, do they bail and play over seas to get better?  If yes, what age is a good age?  One of my dd former coaches signed at 15 and played against CR, Messi and the flying Dutchman in Holland in Academies.  I see ECNL and GA doing more for girls outside of college soccer now.  One of buddies dd is looking at playing pro in Mexico instead of college.  I see amazing opportunities to study and play abroad for females and if your good enough and want to be a pro, you can as a girl, just like the boys can.  Four years ago I was laughed at for even having the dream ((thoughts)) that my dd can just play soccer full time and not have to worry about a full load of classes and early morning workouts.


I may be in the minority on this but I think a stud American teenager that can get first team MLs minutes should stay , whereas going to a top Europe academy they won’t even sniff first team minutes . I also think it is difficult to get work permits in Europe especially for under 18 kids 

Pulisic and Reyna are truly unicorns


----------



## crush (Apr 24, 2022)

Brav520 said:


> I think y
> 
> 
> I may be in the minority on this but I think a stud American teenager that can get first team MLs minutes should stay , whereas going to a top Europe academy they won’t even sniff first team minutes . I also think it is difficult to get work permits in Europe especially for under 18 kids
> ...


I was truly talking Unicorns only.  I think we have way more female Unicorns in the US then on the men side.


----------



## crush (Apr 24, 2022)

Brav520 said:


> I think y
> 
> 
> I may be in the minority on this but I think a stud American teenager that can get first team MLs minutes should stay , whereas going to a top Europe academy they won’t even sniff first team minutes . I also think it is difficult to get work permits in Europe especially for under 18 kids
> ...


Look who scored the game winner, 
*Christian Pulisic's late winner earns Chelsea vital victory against West Ham.*


----------



## youthsportsuggghhhhgghh (Apr 24, 2022)

Highlander said:


> View attachment 13364
> 
> First Sacto Area GA team...interesting times. A lot of clubs joining the DPL too. I predict much more of this. Youth soccer is so messed up in the USA. I still think NPL has the best setup with true pro/rel.


Have always like the NPL in NorCal


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Apr 24, 2022)

crush said:


> Question for you bro.  If the male player is better than MLS level, do they bail and play over seas to get better?  If yes, what age is a good age?  One of my dd former coaches signed at 15 and played against CR, Messi and the flying Dutchman in Holland in Academies.  I see ECNL and GA doing more for girls outside of college soccer now.  One of buddies dd is looking at playing pro in Mexico instead of college.  I see amazing opportunities to study and play abroad for females and if your good enough and want to be a pro, you can as a girl, just like the boys can.  Four years ago I was laughed at for even having the dream ((thoughts)) that my dd can just play soccer full time and not have to worry about a full load of classes and early morning workouts.


I personally dont think pro for either boys or girls is a good choice. They pay you next to nothing + they'll toss you to the curb in the blink of an eye. But if this is some kids dream go and try see what you can do.

The ECNL college pull for girls is very strong. But, you're hearing horror stories left and right from college players about abusive coaches and unrealistic schedules. If you were a superstar it might make sense to go pro younger + have an advantage. The whole college scholarship BS is a scam + colleges should be paying players. A scholarship isnt money (even though colleges want you to think that it is). If scholarships were $$$ youd be able to sell them if you choose to stop attending the school.


----------



## Kicker 2.0 (Apr 24, 2022)

Brav520 said:


> I think y
> 
> 
> I may be in the minority on this but I think a stud American teenager that can get first team MLs minutes should stay , whereas going to a top Europe academy they won’t even sniff first team minutes . I also think it is difficult to get work permits in Europe especially for under 18 kids
> ...


Pulisic and Reyna are not the only 2 Americans getting legitimate minutes in Top European leagues……but your point is well taken.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Apr 24, 2022)

The irony in crazy parents thinking that their kids will play pro/national team from a young age is that most of the kids won't be pro and the few that do may be second or third tier pro/semi-pro and then transition to become club soccer coaches and be subject to torture from the next generation of crazy soccer parents.


----------



## Highlander (Apr 24, 2022)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> The irony in crazy parents thinking that their kids will play pro/national team from a young age is that most of the kids won't be pro and the few that do may be second or third tier pro/semi-pro and then transition to become club soccer coaches and be subject to torture from the next generation of crazy soccer parents.


One of the best observations I have ever read on this message board!!! So true


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## crush (Apr 25, 2022)

Highlander said:


> One of the best observations I have ever read on this message board!!! So true


Dreamers are always cut down at the dream stage.  If a kid has a dream to be a pro anything, help the kid with dream


----------



## Highlander (Apr 25, 2022)

crush said:


> Dreamers are always cut down at the dream stage.  If a kid has a dream to be a pro anything, help the kid with dream


You are right...but doesn't make his observation any less true. And we need more high level coaches...nothing wrong with becoming a coach. I will say, the best coaches I have met already had massive success in business and are now just giving back to the sport they love.


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## crush (Apr 25, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> *I personally dont think pro for either boys or girls is a good choice*. They pay you next to nothing + they'll toss you to the curb in the blink of an eye. But if this is some kids dream go and try see what you can do.


I personally believe having the choice of Pro Soccer or College Soccer or No Soccer is good choice.  I help dreamers make their dreams come true. 99% of the parents I have met the last 11 years in this sport agree with you Carlsbad and I get that 100%.  I told everyone I was going Pro baseball when I was a kid.  Money does not buy anyone happiness, let me tell you.   


rainbow_unicorn said:


> The irony in crazy parents thinking that their kids will play pro/national team from a young age is that most of the kids won't be pro and the few that do may be second or third tier pro/semi-pro and then transition to become club soccer coaches and be subject to torture from the next generation of crazy soccer parents.


Crazy Parent + Crazy kid + Crazy Coach= Crazy Pro Soccer Player


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## crush (Apr 25, 2022)

Highlander said:


> You are right...but doesn't make his observation any less true. And we need more high level coaches...nothing wrong with becoming a coach. I will say, the best coaches I have met already had massive success in business and are now just giving back to the sport they love.


My dd had a crazy ass Doc who was pushed by his English father when he was a boy to be pro and wanted him in EPL academies.  However, dude was not fast enough. He was pushed so hard by his dad that he took it out on the crazy parents like me when he became Doc and head Training Center Guru.  I know, dumb me for believing that my kid even had even a slight chance at pro.  He was the one who said she can be Pro, not me.  I just blushed with pride.  Hey Highlander, when my dd told another Guru Doc in 8th grade she wasn't sure she wanted to go to college, he laughed at her and ghosted her and she went from starter to bench in one week.  Go figure.


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## Highlander (Apr 25, 2022)

crush said:


> My dd had a crazy ass Doc who was pushed by his English father when he was a boy to be pro and wanted him in EPL academies.  However, dude was not fast enough. He was pushed so hard by his dad that he took it out on the crazy parents like me when he became Doc and head Training Center Guru.  I know, dumb me for believing that my kid even had even a slight chance at pro.  He was the one who said she can be Pro, not me.  I just blushed with pride.  Hey Highlander, when my dd told another Guru Doc in 8th grade she wasn't sure she wanted to go to college, he laughed at her and ghosted her and she went from starter to bench in one week.  Go figure.


I'm sorry to hear that...people are nuts. The more I learn about this club soccer stuff, the more I am turned off. I used to have big expectations for my dd but now I just want her to have fun and be with a great coach. Feel very lucky that is her current situation. My dd is a very good student and I want her to pick a school for academics...and then if she wants and is able to, walk on and play. If not, no big deal.


----------



## Highlander (Apr 25, 2022)

Highlander said:


> I'm sorry to hear that...people are nuts. The more I learn about this club soccer stuff, the more I am turned off. I used to have big expectations for my dd but now I just want her to have fun and be with a great coach. Feel very lucky that is her current situation. My dd is a very good student and I want her to pick a school for academics...and then if she wants and is able to, walk on and play. If not, no big deal.


Just to add (my edit time ran out - LOL) - My dd is a very good student and I want her to pick a school for academics...and then if she wants and is able to, walk on and play. If not, no big deal. Honestly, I don't think college athletics is healthy...too many stories about abuse, etc...and guessing what I hear I just the tip of the iceberg. The story of the Stanford Goalkeeper should resonate with all.


----------



## crush (Apr 25, 2022)

Highlander said:


> I'm sorry to hear that...people are nuts.  I used to have big expectations for my dd but now I just want her to have fun and be with a great coach. Feel very lucky that is her current situation. My dd is a very good student and I want her to pick a school for academics...and then if she wants and is able to, walk on and play. If not, no big deal.


I (she) had big expectations in 6th and 7th grade with club soccer because she had a few dreams she wanted to come true and I love people with dreams. These were her dreams, not mind by the way.  She is my pea to my pod so when she wins, I win.  When she loses, I lose.  When laughs, I laugh.  When she cries, I cry.  When she has pain, I have pain.  She's happy, I am happy   I love her so much bro.  Anyway, her first dream in soccer was to win a State Cup.  Her first year of club and State Cup was at 7 years old.  Her team was bounced early, no wins. The coach's husband hated me because I told him to "stop coaching the girls from the side line bro" at State Cup and he got all pissed off and told me to STFU and let's take it to the parking lot for a dual!  I kid you not.  We ((the other dads)) were all afraid to speak up during the season because his wife held the cards for play time and he was 6 4'.  My dd tried two more State Cups with another club, only to lose in Quarter Finals.  She wanted that State Cup so bad and lost in OT to Carlsbad.  A fun team to lose to and with cool parents.  Surf poached some of them later......lol.  SoCal Blues Coach Tad ((Founder of ODP and first ever U15 Girls YNT coach)) came by around this time scouting players from other clubs for his new U11 team.  This was going to be his last team in 40 years of coaching females in soccer.  He only coached 7 teams Highlander, that's it.  He was honest about his purpose for the girls and what he was all about. He never sold YNT, The List, the Training Center or ODP, never once.  Just be a good person and work hard at your craft and try to win.  He never sold ODP but he started it, go figure.  He never brought up his connections but had plenty.  It was only soccer on the field, not soccer politics and working the room in the back.  He did sell ECNL for the future if my kid makes his team each year after tryouts, but that flew over my head.  I told him I was looking for winning at the highest level and so was my dd.  I asked him if my kid had IT, like was she all that and "do you see her making the YNT" some day or having a chance some day?  "What's the process coach?" "Tell me coach" I asked the guru himself.  He said no way to really know in America until the female develops her true body and shape, which is around 17 and if they still love the game.  Many girls quit for many reasons he said.  My dd was 10 when I asked so he was not going to sugar coat nothing.  He told me the truth, "I don;t know." He was all about winning now as a team and not about the individual and preparing to win every game no matter what.  My kid loved that and signed with him for two years and they never lost a league game and won it all.  Never take opponent lightly and show no mercy she was taught and they won Cal South State Cup first year and her first soccer dream came true.  Only one team won.  Second dream was win Surf Cup ((won three)).  Third dream was win a Far West Regional ((won one)) and fourth dream was win USYS Nattty ((won one)).  Her 5th dream was win a D3 CIF Championship. Fell short but got moved up to D1 her last year and not her fault.  She had a few personal dreams when she was 13, like make the U14 YNT.  This was billed as a "must make" and "first ever of it's kind" and something that was presented as a possibility because the "scouts" said so and they all loved her I was told.  The only problem with this dream is I got in the way.  I see that clearly today.  I pissed off three Docs with all the power in less than 12 months.  Long story and I wont bore you but it goes to say what you said, that the Docs have the sway and pull at the younger ages.  Like many have said before me, you will always have the top top can't miss or your fired players.  Its the rest that need help and that is where a Doc with connections comes in.  My kid was 100% committed when she was 12 and 13 and gave up 16 months ((two summers)) to train in the heat for the "First Of It's Kind U14 Girls National Team" and that team will go to England for some matches I was sold.  Tell a kid to give up her life and then you find out it was just a list and no play at all was disheartening to say the least. Enough with my sour grapes.


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## GoldenGate (Apr 25, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Just to add (my edit time ran out - LOL) - My dd is a very good student and I want her to pick a school for academics...and then if she wants and is able to, walk on and play. If not, no big deal. Honestly, I don't think college athletics is healthy...too many stories about abuse, etc...and guessing what I hear I just the tip of the iceberg. The story of the Stanford Goalkeeper should resonate with all.


The story of the Stanford Goalkeeper should not "resonate" with anyone.  It is extremely unwise and inappropriate to attempt to take meaning from an incident involving a person you don't know that happened for reasons you know nothing about. There is no big picture meaning for outsiders to take from that incident, and it's more than a little offensive to co-opt her family's tragedy to support your pre-existing viewpoint.  

The truth is college athletes overall tend to succeed better in life compared by virtually every measure compared to those who did not play college sports.  Furthermore, suicide rates for college athletes, and female athletes in particular, are also lower than for non-athletes.  Relying on one incident (or a handful of them) to reach such a negative conclusion about college sports, while at the same time ignoring the millions upon millions of women who have benefited from participating in college athletics, is pretty crazy.  

We all want to protect our children from harm.  Instead, many people instead end up "protecting" them from what are, in reality, opportunities to succeed because they're too afraid their children might fail. So they deter them from pursuing those opportunities.


----------



## Highlander (Apr 25, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> The story of the Stanford Goalkeeper should not "resonate" with anyone.  It is extremely unwise and inappropriate to attempt to take meaning from an incident involving a person you don't know that happened for reasons you know nothing about. There is no big picture meaning for outsiders to take from that incident, and it's more than a little offensive to co-opt her family's tragedy to support your pre-existing viewpoint.
> 
> The truth is college athletes overall tend to succeed better in life compared by virtually every measure compared to those who did not play college sports.  Furthermore, suicide rates for college athletes, and female athletes in particular, are also lower than for non-athletes.  Relying on one incident (or a handful of them) to reach such a negative conclusion about college sports, while at the same time ignoring the millions upon millions of women who have benefited from participating in college athletics, is pretty crazy.
> 
> We all want to protect our children from harm.  Instead, many people instead end up "protecting" them from what are, in reality, opportunities to succeed because they're too afraid their children might fail. So they deter them from pursuing those opportunities.


You have studies to back up your assertions? A lot of high profile student athlete suicides lately. Just my personal opinion...way too much pressure is put on kids. Not only that but a lot of allegations of coaching abuse at the college level.


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## Highlander (Apr 25, 2022)

Speak of the devil...this just popped up on my FB feed: https://people.com/sports/wisconsin-track-star-family-speaks-out-after-suicide-launches-foundation/


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## Carlsbad7 (Apr 25, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Speak of the devil...this just popped up on my FB feed: https://people.com/sports/wisconsin-track-star-family-speaks-out-after-suicide-launches-foundation/


College students aren't getting paid in $$$ instead in "scholarship opportunities" because of this they get trapped in bad situations.

College coaches exploit players by threatening to take away scholarships or making it so hard on the players they leave. Then bam,  suddenly they have a scholarship funds available for a new player.

This is why I say that scholarships are a scam. They're not $$$ because they're not transferrable + if the college chooses to take them away you're screwed into paying full levels of tuition.


----------



## dad4 (Apr 25, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> College students aren't getting paid in $$$ instead in "scholarship opportunities" because of this they get trapped in bad situations.
> 
> College coaches exploit players by threatening to take away scholarships or making it so hard on the players they leave. Then bam,  suddenly they have a scholarship funds available for a new player.
> 
> This is why I say that scholarships are a scam. They're not $$$ because they're not transferrable + if the college chooses to take them away you're screwed into paying full levels of tuition.


Does this show up in things you can know in advance?  Might even be as simple as “stay away from any school with twice as many seniors as freshmen.”


----------



## crush (Apr 25, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> College students aren't getting paid in $$$ instead in "scholarship opportunities" because of this they get trapped in bad situations.
> 
> College coaches exploit players by threatening to take away scholarships or making it so hard on the players they leave. Then bam,  suddenly they have a scholarship funds available for a new player.
> 
> This is why I say that scholarships are a scam. They're not $$$ because they're not transferrable + if the college chooses to take them away you're screwed into paying full levels of tuition.


True story bro.  A top Doc told me about one of his former stars.  YNT player and a nice deal to Big U with all the big pressures that come with playing big time college soccer, that is crammed into three months of play.  This player verbally committed in early 9th grade.  Her first day of college practice was also her last one.  I guess they have this running test and this player did not come into camp ready and puked.  Coach grabbed her by the ponytail and told her to quit before she get's her deal taken a way.  She told her dad that the coach was mean and not how she was on the phone when they last talked.  It's a rude awakening for most of the girls.  Again, maybe 10% can handle this kind of pressure at the highest levels of the girls game after club.


----------



## Carlsbad7 (Apr 25, 2022)

crush said:


> True story bro.  A top Doc told me about one of his former stars.  YNT player and a nice deal to Big U with all the big pressures that come with playing big time college soccer, that is crammed into three months of play.  This player verbally committed in early 9th grade.  Her first day of college practice was also her last one.  I guess they have this running test and this player did not come into camp ready and puked.  Coach grabbed her by the ponytail and told her to quit before she get's her deal taken a way.  She told her dad that the coach was mean and not how she was on the phone when they last talked.  It's a rude awakening for most of the girls.  Again, maybe 10% can handle this kind of pressure at the highest levels of the girls game after club.


If you're getting paid to play a sport expecting a certain level of fitness is reasonable. Also this is where agents come in + represent their player.

A 30k discount from a 60k per year school isnt worth being run to the point where you puke and having your hair pulled by a coach. This is abuse.


----------



## crush (Apr 25, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> If you're getting paid to play a sport expecting a certain level of fitness is reasonable. Also this is where agents come in + represent their player.
> 
> A 30k discount from a 60k per year school isnt worth being run to the point where you puke and having your hair pulled by a coach. This is abuse.


That's what I thought as well.  If I were a basketball coach and had one of my studs come in to camp out of shape and some pukes on the first day, I would keep an eye on them and make sure their ok and maybe a little smack laugh and tell them they better eat better and come back ready for more running tomorrow.  That's it.  It is soccer and you should come to camp in shape.  The point the Doc was making was why the rule was changed in the first place and college soccer is hard and most quit before they finish all four years.  This is why I held my child back in 7th and 8th grade.  I already heard two horror stories from parents I knew who had players playing college ball.  I got hammered for it but I'm sure glad I stepped in because my dd was not up to the pressure of all the school work that came with soccer and all the games in three months and maybe playoffs.


----------



## what-happened (Apr 25, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> The story of the Stanford Goalkeeper should not "resonate" with anyone.  It is extremely unwise and inappropriate to attempt to take meaning from an incident involving a person you don't know that happened for reasons you know nothing about. There is no big picture meaning for outsiders to take from that incident, and it's more than a little offensive to co-opt her family's tragedy to support your pre-existing viewpoint.
> 
> The truth is college athletes overall tend to succeed better in life compared by virtually every measure compared to those who did not play college sports.  Furthermore, suicide rates for college athletes, and female athletes in particular, are also lower than for non-athletes.  Relying on one incident (or a handful of them) to reach such a negative conclusion about college sports, while at the same time ignoring the millions upon millions of women who have benefited from participating in college athletics, is pretty crazy.
> 
> We all want to protect our children from harm.  Instead, many people instead end up "protecting" them from what are, in reality, opportunities to succeed because they're too afraid their children might fail. So they deter them from pursuing those opportunities.


where do you get your material?


----------



## crush (Apr 25, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> The story of the Stanford Goalkeeper should not "resonate" with anyone.  It is extremely unwise and inappropriate to attempt to take meaning from an incident involving a person you don't know that happened for reasons you know nothing about. There is no big picture meaning for outsiders to take from that incident, and it's more than a little offensive to co-opt her family's tragedy to support your pre-existing viewpoint.
> 
> The truth is college athletes overall tend to succeed better in life compared by virtually every measure compared to those who did not play college sports.  Furthermore, suicide rates for college athletes, and female athletes in particular, are also lower than for non-athletes.  Relying on one incident (or a handful of them) to reach such a negative conclusion about college sports, while at the same time ignoring the millions upon millions of women who have benefited from participating in college athletics, is pretty crazy.
> 
> We all want to protect our children from harm.  Instead, many people instead end up "protecting" them from what are, in reality, opportunities to succeed because they're too afraid their children might fail. So they deter them from pursuing those opportunities.


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## Anon9 (Apr 25, 2022)

Back to the real readon we're here.


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## Anon9 (Apr 25, 2022)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518741453039710208


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## VegasParent (Apr 25, 2022)

Anon9 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518741453039710208


Norcal gets their own conference? I wonder if that's going to upset some Socal parents.


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## Highlander (Apr 25, 2022)

Anon9 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1518741453039710208


Well deserved for these two clubs.


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## soccer4us (Apr 25, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Well deserved for these two clubs.


Agreed. Both regions deserved one more so it makes sense.  I imagine no more expansion in Nor Cal for a bit now with 10 being a nice round number. Look forward to this site being really fun when tryouts begin.


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## dad4 (Apr 26, 2022)

I hope it means less travel.

It still leaves a weird central valley gap.  There are lots of good players in Stockton, Modesto, and Fresno.  Their absence makes ECNL look less like a top players league and more like a rich kids league.


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## Highlander (Apr 26, 2022)

dad4 said:


> I hope it means less travel.
> 
> It still leaves a weird central valley gap.  There are lots of good players in Stockton, Modesto, and Fresno.  Their absence makes ECNL look less like a top players league and more like a rich kids league.


Couldn't agree more and its there for the taking for the clubs that step up. Seems like Stanislaus and Ajax have a leg up at the moment.

That said, I still think ECNL, a private league, is still lame. The concept offends me. At least they made it more tolerable with the new NorCal Conference. Hopefully they start to allow teams to play in like they do on the boys side...they do that it would be ok...just need to add relegation at that point.


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## Carlsbad7 (Apr 26, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Couldn't agree more and its there for the taking for the clubs that step up. Seems like Stanislaus and Ajax have a leg up at the moment.
> 
> That said, I still think ECNL, a private league, is still lame. The concept offends me. At least they made it more tolerable with the new NorCal Conference. Hopefully they start to allow teams to play in like they do on the boys side...they do that it would be ok...just need to add relegation at that point.


To do regulation they'd need to split girls and boys ECNL apart + make them separate entities per club + things would get super messy.

Otherwise regulated clubs would just switch to NPL or GA / MLS Next.


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## crush (Apr 26, 2022)

dad4 said:


> I hope it means less travel.
> 
> It still leaves a weird central valley gap.  There are lots of good players in Stockton, Modesto, and Fresno.  Their absence makes ECNL look less like a top players league and more like a rich kids league.


Back in the day they called it Redlining.  I dont think this applies at all but you get the point.  Companies like the Yellow Pages and Water delivery Companies got in trouble for not servicing South Central and parts of LA in the 90s.  You do have to afford the ECNL and it's not getting any cheaper. Gas is insane and prices have gone up everywhere you go.  What cost the average family $10,000 a year for dd to play elite soccer is now projected to be $15,000 a year.  If you go in style and first class, $20,000 a year to play soccer if you travel with your child.  If you're poor and have to work 60 hours a week, your best bet is to find a stay at home mom who would be willing to watch over your child on the road.


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## GoldenGate (Apr 26, 2022)

Highlander said:


> You have studies to back up your assertions? A lot of high profile student athlete suicides lately. Just my personal opinion...way too much pressure is put on kids. Not only that but a lot of allegations of coaching abuse at the college level.


I do. 








						Suicide in National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) Athletes: A 9-Year Analysis of the NCAA Resolutions Database
					

The National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) has recently highlighted mental health concerns in student athletes, though the incidence of suicide among NCAA athletes is unclear. The purpose of this study was to determine the rate of suicide among ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				











						Mind, Body and Sport: Suicidal tendencies
					

Mind, Body and Sport: Suicidal tendencies An excerpt from the Sport Science Institute’s guide to understanding and supporting student-athlete mental wellness




					www.ncaa.org
				











						Gallup study shows positive life outcomes for college athletes
					

A Gallup study of college graduates found that former athletes were more likely to be thriving in life after graduation, largely due to the support systems their sports team provided for them.




					www.insidehighered.com
				











						Student Athletes Report Success After College, but Sports Take Toll on Some Men
					

A landmark survey of college graduates contains two big findings: Female college athletes make great employees; and male college football and basketball players pay a physical price later in life.




					www.wsj.com
				




No, "a lot of high profile athletes" have not committed suicide lately.  A handful have, just as a handful always have.  Just as they always have at a lower rate than those who don't have the benefits of college sports.  

It is no wonder that so many kids are struggling given how many parents constantly bring home such negativity.  You are seriously deterring your own kid from playing a sport in college because you're worried she might fail, not on the field but in life, because of it.  Instead, you would prefer to deny her the opportunity that she might have to leverage soccer to open college opportunity for her; you'd prefer to send her to boozy dorms her freshman year with no built in friend group or an activity that is very likely to reduce the risk of rampant substance abuse when she gets there; you'd rather send her to college without the instant respect that college athletes tend to receive just being a college athlete.    

Some day you will find that there will always be "too much pressure" on your child whether she plays sports, participates in debate, goes pre-med, goes into the workforce, or does anything.  You'll even find there is likely to be "too much pressure" if your child doesn't do anything at all and feels left behind her peers who did play soccer or do other things, all because her daddy deterred her from doing things because everything has "too much pressure".  By far the best way to reduce the "too much pressure" on your child is to be a positive and supportive parent, instead of one who constantly whines to them about how playing a child's sport is just too much for their kid and deters them from doing something they presumably enjoyed until their parent ruined it for them with their self-pity and helicopter parenting.


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## GoldenGate (Apr 26, 2022)

dad4 said:


> I hope it means less travel.
> 
> It still leaves a weird central valley gap.  There are lots of good players in Stockton, Modesto, and Fresno.  Their absence makes ECNL look less like a top players league and more like a rich kids league.


Did you really just say you would prefer less travel in the same post in which you're complaining about Fresno and Modesto not having ECNL clubs?


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## dad4 (Apr 26, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Did you really just say you would prefer less travel in the same post in which you're complaining about Fresno and Modesto not having ECNL clubs?


The last time I checked, Fresno and Modesto are closer than Phoenix, Denver, and Seattle.

I’m not talking about $70 in gas for a day trip.  That’s fine.  The problem is $1500 in flights and hotels for a three day weekend with one decent game.


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## Highlander (Apr 26, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Some day you will find that there will always be "too much pressure" on your child whether she plays sports, participates in debate, goes pre-med, goes into the workforce, or does anything.  You'll even find there is likely to be "too much pressure" if your child doesn't do anything at all and feels left behind her peers who did play soccer or do other things, all because her daddy deterred her from doing things because everything has "too much pressure".  By far the best way to reduce the "too much pressure" on your child is to be a positive and supportive parent, instead of one who constantly whines to them about how playing a child's sport is just too much for their kid and deters them from doing something they presumably enjoyed until their parent ruined it for them with their self-pity and helicopter parenting.


First off, thanks for the links...the initial study you linked is interesting. That said, I think any high profile student athlete suicide should be something all parents of athletes and non athletes should consider.

Then of course, you being a douche bag and all, couldn't resist with the BS comment quoted. This coming from the guy crying about a club being in Placer county and having to make the drive there. Like I said above, for every decent comment you make comes with a shit load of garbage. You would be pretty cool if you could just cut down on the BS.


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## crush (Apr 26, 2022)

dad4 said:


> The last time I checked, Fresno and Modesto are closer than Phoenix, Denver, and Seattle.
> 
> *I’m not talking about $70 in gas for a day trip.  That’s fine.*  The problem is $1500 in flights and hotels for a three day weekend with one decent game.


No, it's not find to $pend and pay to play travel soccer in todays financial times that is destroying the middle class and the poor.  The rich are find. The truth is this:  It's $280 in Gas + $200 eating out + $50 in Parking fees = $530 a month x 10=$5300 to travel locally from town to town.  When you add the $1500 a few times a year, now that's another $5,000.  Plus the club fees and if you doing privates with the Doc or coach, add another $600 a month for private coaching.  Add all that up for me an let me know what you can round out to be able to participate in the pay and play youth soccer in America.  Socal had it made back when CSL was IT.  Teams came to play in Surf Cup to prove who was #1 and that was the traveling needed.  NoCal would also come here and the top clubs would go up to Nocal for tournaments.  That's how it was done.  Today, Socal is covered with water down soccer politics and a nice business for some dads and business people.


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## what-happened (Apr 26, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> I do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


wait, I thought you left twitter?


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## GoldenGate (Apr 26, 2022)

crush said:


> No, it's not find to $pend and pay to play travel soccer in todays financial times that is destroying the middle class and the poor.  The rich are find. The truth is this:  It's $280 in Gas + $200 eating out + $50 in Parking fees = $530 a month x 10=$5300 to travel locally from town to town.  When you add the $1500 a few times a year, now that's another $5,000.  Plus the club fees and if you doing privates with the Doc or coach, add another $600 a month for private coaching.  Add all that up for me an let me know what you can round out to be able to participate in the pay and play youth soccer in America.  Socal had it made back when CSL was IT.  Teams came to play in Surf Cup to prove who was #1 and that was the traveling needed.  NoCal would also come here and the top clubs would go up to Nocal for tournaments.  That's how it was done.  Today, Socal is covered with water down soccer politics and a nice business for some dads and business people.


Kiddie soccer has destroyed the middle class and the poor?  Really?  No one ever forced your kid to play travel soccer.  The fact that you are complaining about the cost of private coaching for a child to play a child's sport, which may be one of the most indulgent and stupidest ways possible for someone in the middle class of lower to waste money, strongly suggests that you really need to take a step back and decide what is important, and what is not.  If private soccer lessons for your child are too expensive for you, then don't do it.


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## Surf Zombie (Apr 26, 2022)

ECNL GIRLS LAUNCHES NORTHERN CAL CONFERENCE, WELCOMES TWO NEW TEAMS
					

RICHMOND, Va. (April 25, 2022) – Today ECNL Girls announced a conference realignment in the west to create the new Northern Cal Conference, a brand-new conference for 10 clubs to kick off in the 2022-23 season. The Northern Cal conference will be the new home for eight northern California clubs...




					www.ecnlgirls.com


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## myself (Apr 26, 2022)

VegasParent said:


> Norcal gets their own conference? I wonder if that's going to upset some Socal parents.


Why would that upset socal parents?


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## crush (Apr 26, 2022)

GoldenGate said:


> Kiddie soccer has destroyed the middle class and the poor?  Really?  No one ever forced your kid to play travel soccer.  The fact that you are complaining about the cost of private coaching for a child to play a child's sport, which may be one of the most indulgent and stupidest ways possible for someone in the middle class of lower to waste money, strongly suggests that you really need to take a step back and decide what is important, and what is not.  If private soccer lessons for your child are too expensive for you, then don't do it.


The price tag for elite soccer coaching and training is going up for todays elite soccer parents.  I got free handouts Golden Gate so my cost is different compared to the rich and the middle class, don't forget that.  Private "paid" lessons with the Doc or coach is tied directly to play time and favoritism.  It showed the Doc exactly how much a parent is willing to pay to improve their Childs chances of success.  Tell you want, let's not talk here and hog the thread.  PM me and we can go private debating and not take over a thread.  You can share my PMs too so no worries.


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## VegasParent (Apr 26, 2022)

myself said:


> Why would that upset socal parents?


Socal parents have said many times that there are enough quality teams in their area that there is no reason to travel for games. 13 of the 17 teams in the southwest are in Socal. So if 10 is enough for a Norcal conference it sounds like the Socal parents have a strong argument to have their own conference as well.


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## soccer4us (Apr 26, 2022)

dad4 said:


> The last time I checked, Fresno and Modesto are closer than Phoenix, Denver, and Seattle.
> 
> I’m not talking about $70 in gas for a day trip.  That’s fine.  The problem is $1500 in flights and hotels for a three day weekend with one decent game.


Real question. Has anyone in the valley truly applied and wanted into ECNL? I think one in Fresno would be good because there is enough talent in that area but I do wonder if they want everything that comes with ECNL


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## soccer4us (Apr 26, 2022)

VegasParent said:


> Socal parents have said many times that there are enough quality teams in their area that there is no reason to travel for games. 13 of the 17 teams in the southwest are in Socal. So if 10 is enough for a Norcal conference it sounds like the Socal parents have a strong argument to have their own conference as well.


With this new Nor Cal conference I'm assuming it takes away the one spring travel trip to Oregon, Wash, CO, etc. Where does Colorado team gets enough games if taking games away vs nor cal teams. I thik they had 4 games vs those teams. Interesting to see the hole alignment when that comes out/schedule for next year.

So cal can certainly have their own but what happens to the 4 other teams? No way to get enough games without traveling liek crazy although I'm sure some would be happy not to see the top so cal teams!


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## dad4 (Apr 26, 2022)

soccer4us said:


> Real question. Has anyone in the valley truly applied and wanted into ECNL? I think one in Fresno would be good because there is enough talent in that area but I do wonder if they want everything that comes with ECNL


Don’t know.  I know individual kids do it.  There may or may not be enough of them to make a team viable under the current structure.  Certainly seems like Fresno could support one if ECNL can get their costs down.


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## Orangeteam (Apr 26, 2022)

I dont know if the new conference really makes a difference other than a new badge.   If this means no more Colorado or Crossfire games then we've accomplished only watering down the games so ECNL can form a conference.   It will make me more willing to travel to So Cal just to scrimmage if this is the path that's being forged.


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## Anon9 (Apr 26, 2022)

Orangeteam said:


> I dont know if the new conference really makes a difference other than a new badge.   If this means no more Colorado or Crossfire games then we've accomplished only watering down the games so ECNL can form a conference.   It will make me more willing to travel to So Cal just to scrimmage if this is the path that's being forged.


You don't always get Real Colorado or Crossfire as your opponent. Some clubs are really not worth the travel.......


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## soccer4us (Apr 26, 2022)

Anon9 said:


> You don't always get Real Colorado or Crossfire as your opponent. Some clubs are really not worth the travel.......


From what I know, no travel to northwest anymore. 18 total ECNL games plus showcases is my understanding. For the u16/17 ages this is helpful since their travel schedule with showcases is heavy enough.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Apr 27, 2022)

ECNL should set it up where ECNL conferences are smaller and more localized.  Have ECNL play local ECRL teams (that are not second teams) once a season as non-conference games.  Proven ECRL teams over time can be promoted and travel is reduced as a whole.  Basically, invite all the GA teams to ECRL and be done with the ECNL/DA/GA feud.


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## Carlsbad7 (Apr 27, 2022)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> ECNL should set it up where ECNL conferences are smaller and more localized.  Have ECNL play local ECRL teams (that are not second teams) once a season as non-conference games.  Proven ECRL teams over time can be promoted and travel is reduced as a whole.  Basically, invite all the GA teams to ECRL and be done with the ECNL/DA/GA feud.


Great idea but not going to happen. ECNL might have girls locked in Socal. But, not so much for the boys.

If things keep going the way that they are clubs will need to choose if they want to be a top level Girls or top level Boys club. 

There's a good chance that GA might sneak into clubs on MLS Next's coattails.


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## crush (Apr 27, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Great idea but not going to happen. ECNL might have girls locked in Socal. But, not so much for the boys.
> 
> If things keep going the way that they are clubs will need to choose if they want to be a top level Girls or top level Boys club.
> 
> There's a good chance that GA might sneak into clubs on MLS Next's coattails.


This is what happened when a few pissed off clubs in Socal and a few older woman all felt the DA was not treating the girls equal and like men so they forced us all in the GDA and started to teach, coach and treat the girls like boys.  It sucked!!  I watched it and it was a joke.  I know when I say this I piss off a few daddy's who thought the GDA was the best thing since slice bread and I understand why you feel that way, trust me.  5 years later and soccer is a joke and controlled a by a small few so they can make money and their kids can go play in college.  Yippie!!!  Soccer needs to be set free like Twitter.  Lock these poor girls in gages and tell them how to behave, how to sing and how to be happy.  No freedom.  We need big change, my poo


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## kickingandscreaming (Apr 27, 2022)

Highlander said:


> Then of course, you being a douche bag and all, couldn't resist with the BS comment quoted.


The parable of The Scorpian and the Frog comes to mind. It's simply in his nature. Forest Whitaker's take on it in the crying game was a good one.


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