# Build out line



## espola (Sep 9, 2018)

Today I witnessed my first BU9 game using the build out line.  What is it they are trying to teach with that?

Would it be legal for the keeper to dribble the ball out and then kick the ball long?


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## Grace T. (Sep 9, 2018)

Supposedly building from the back instead of letting the keeper punt or the big legged defender boot the goalkick. I just had any ayso game with the new rule.  I need some work on it . Yes the goalkeeper can put it down and dribble out on a save, not on a goalkick.


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## Sunil Illuminati (Sep 9, 2018)

No. Six months in a Youth Detention Center for that offense.


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## Grace T. (Sep 9, 2018)

Gk can put it down when saved. Defense can cross the line when put down.


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## timbuck (Sep 9, 2018)

espola said:


> Today I witnessed my first BU9 game using the build out line.  What is it they are trying to teach with that?
> 
> Would it be legal for the keeper to dribble the ball out and then kick the ball long?


I think the point is that they want teams to be able to play it short without a swarm of pressure camped out at the edge of the 18.  At the young ages, not every team will have a player that can smash it long and out of trouble.  So they want to teams to be able to play soccer instead of "try to boot it past the wall standing on the edge of the 18."
Good idea on paper.
But you have some coaches who will play it short and then smash the next ball forward anyway.
And then you have other coaches who will have the same "camp out at the build out line and send a wave of players forward" to try and stop the build out.
Or you have some other coaches who look for loopholes like "lets have the keeper dribble it for a touch and then smash it forward" or "play a ball out to your center back who will softly play it back to the keeper who will then smash it forward."


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## Grace T. (Sep 9, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I think the point is that they want teams to be able to play it short without a swarm of pressure camped out at the edge of the 18.  At the young ages, not every team will have a player that can smash it long and out of trouble.  So they want to teams to be able to play soccer instead of "try to boot it past the wall standing on the edge of the 18."
> Good idea on paper.
> But you have some coaches who will play it short and then smash the next ball forward anyway.
> And then you have other coaches who will have the same "camp out at the build out line and send a wave of players forward" to try and stop the build out.
> Or you have some other coaches who look for loopholes like "lets have the keeper dribble it for a touch and then smash it forward" or "play a ball out to your center back who will softly play it back to the keeper who will then smash it forward."



My favorite of the weekend was the coach that told the player to throw it overhead onto the ground like a free throw, then it bounced and he could kick it long.  Sorry...still a drop kick.


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## socalkdg (Sep 9, 2018)

timbuck said:


> I think the point is that they want teams to be able to play it short without a swarm of pressure camped out at the edge of the 18.  At the young ages, not every team will have a player that can smash it long and out of trouble.  So they want to teams to be able to play soccer instead of "try to boot it past the wall standing on the edge of the 18."
> Good idea on paper.
> But you have some coaches who will play it short and then smash the next ball forward anyway.
> And then you have other coaches who will have the same "camp out at the build out line and send a wave of players forward" to try and stop the build out.
> Or you have some other coaches who look for loopholes like "lets have the keeper dribble it for a touch and then smash it forward" or "play a ball out to your center back who will softly play it back to the keeper who will then smash it forward."


In each of these cases you have 1-2 extra passes.   Still better than what we had.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Sep 9, 2018)

The build out line is great for youngers.  Not sure how one could argue that forcing players to learn how to pass the ball out of the back is a bad thing.


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## MWN (Sep 9, 2018)

I'll add ... there are two main goals of the build out line: (1) give the uLittles a few seconds to attempt to build out of the back, make a pass or two ... attempt to play correctly; and (2) keep the ball on the ground instead of punted into the air, thus, creating needless header opportunities.  The Federation's adoption of the BOL and modified rules are all designed to help the uLittle play with their feet, which is really bad if we are trying to teach them basketball or baseball, but kinda good for soccer.


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## coachsamy (Sep 10, 2018)

Kudos to whoever came with this rule! I went to see my nephew play and the whole building from the back and no punts, goalies hand passing and no pressure to build up are great. To say that makes a Ulittle bronze game to be enjoyable to watch is a lot.


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## jrcaesar (Sep 10, 2018)

These games require some patience to referee: GK gets ball, referee assesses whether the ball is being played quickly or not, referee motions to get players pushed back, GK plays the ball, players and referee react to whether ball leaves penalty area and crosses line. It's just a game reset that is unusual in soccer.


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## Messi>CR7 (Sep 10, 2018)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> The build out line is great for youngers.  Not sure how one could argue that forcing players to learn how to pass the ball out of the back is a bad thing.


Yes, the idea is good.  Unfortunately, I saw most U12 (first year without the build out line rule) teams punt exclusively.


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## Grace T. (Sep 10, 2018)

Messi>CR7 said:


> Yes, the idea is good.  Unfortunately, I saw most U12 (first year without the build out line rule) teams punt exclusively.



Yeah, I've noticed this is a common sight too.  A friend who coaches Xtras and I made a bet over whether teams would go back to punting after the build out line.  Sadly I won that bet.    And I've now seen silver elite level, silver level, bronze level, extras, and core teams do it.  Only a handful of teams of the 20+ U12 games I spectated, observed or ARed this summer or first weekend really tried to build out the back...some coaches are trying but it's really hard when you are facing teams that are just being very direct...one club I saw that religious plays it out the back and very beautifully but they are always getting killed (and the parents were very angrily grumbling thinking the coach doesn't know what he is doing).

I've reversed myself on the build out line.  I used to think that better coaching education could solve it without artificial intervention.  I was unhappy the rules came up with strange results like for a line violation the goalkeeper lost possession or giving the goalkeeper the option to roll or kick the goalkicks, but the rules tweaks seem to have fixed things and the refs are understanding the rules better.  I don't know where they go from here...I'm down to maybe the possession game just isn't that important and we shouldn't worry about it v. maybe we got to expand it upward to cover U12 too.  Not sure.

The other thing I noticed being an AR for a couple AYSO U12 games is that unlike the club games or Extra game I've seen, the (rotating) goalkeepers now have no idea how to punt which makes for a very unwatchable combination of being unable to build from the back and also unable to play the long game.


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## Surfref (Sep 10, 2018)

This is only the second year of using the build out line, so I am not surprised that there are some first year 9v9 keepers that have resorted to punting.  I have worked several 9v9 games where the keepers rarely punt and are quickly throwing the ball to a teammate who starts working the ball forward and sometimes back to the keepers feet for a pass to the other side.  I think it will take a couple years for the BOL to start showing a cultural change.  Once we start to see a couple years of players that have known nothing but the BOL, I think keepers and defenders will start to actually play the ball out of the back instead of just punting.  I worked a couple 7v7 games mixed in with my olders games and was surprised that all of the teams did a really good job of working the ball up by quick passes and only 1-3 touches, with no teams trying to just kick the ball long over the top.


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## timbuck (Sep 10, 2018)

Getting a team to become competent to play out of the back is not easy.  It's much easier to punt the ball to midfield and hope to win the 50/50 ball or receive the 2nd ball rebound.
One pass from the gk to a backline player is not "building out."  It takes practice and rehearsal from each player on the field.  It also takes above average technical ability. And it takes good field vision.
These 3 items are not always there in players that are playing 7v7, 9v9 or even 11v11.
So if you have a 2009 team -  with 90 minutes of practice 2x per week.  And 1/3 of the kids don't show up for every practice, it is not an easy concept to master.  

This is a solid session on how to train for it.  These players appear to be about 11 or 12 years old.  You'll notice that they play the ball in the air when it should be on the ground.  They don't give perfect passing angles to be open.  They don't always scan the field by constantly checking over their shoulder.  






So as a coach - Do you spend a lot of time trying to get your players to be better technically?   Or do you spend a lot of your practice working on build out patterns that will probably fall apart because of a horrible first touch or an improper pass.
You can definitely do both -  But you might get some upset parents because you aren't scoring as much.


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## Grace T. (Sep 10, 2018)

timbuck said:


> This is a solid session on how to train for it.  These players appear to be about 11 or 12 years old.  You'll notice that they play the ball in the air when it should be on the ground.  They don't give perfect passing angles to be open.  They don't always scan the field by constantly checking over their shoulder.
> 
> .


The other thing in the video is that the coach isn't using the GK as part of the build out.  The GK sometimes sets it up to a side (which realistically means the defense is all going to stack it up to that side).   The GK kicks it and then is done rather than moving in the direction of the ball to support.  The coach drops a defender (CB)? into the area to handle the switch instead of using the GK to do it which reduces the switching options from 3 (through the mid, through the defense, and through the back) down to 1.   Great session but goes to show how hard it is.


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## watfly (Sep 10, 2018)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> The build out line is great for youngers.  Not sure how one could argue that forcing players to learn how to pass the ball out of the back is a bad thing.


Unfortunately, I haven't seen any real tangible benefit to the BOL.  Coaches that don't teach Building out the Back ("BOTB") just figure out ways around the BOL to boot the ball.  It might assist those coaches that teach BOTB but that benefit is negligible and doesn't compensate for the game time lost waiting for the kids to get behind the BOL.  (Particularly when you still have certain refs that make the opposing team retreat behind the BOL and don't allow a quick restart.)  Its also counter intuitive since to be most effective, BOTB has to be done quickly.  To me the BOL is an unnecessary complication of a simple game.  Personally I would rather have BOTB taught and not legislated by changing the laws of the game.  (Unfortunately USSF would rather makeup rules to change the game then to make coaching education more accessible).

Trust me, I hate keeper punts,  they're probably the least effective play in soccer.   You give up possession over 50% of the time and it is often turned into a counter attack by the opposing team.  However, I don't think the BOL has done much to change that in the long term.


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## baldref (Sep 10, 2018)

after "watching" a good amount of these games with the build out line, i think it's working fairly well. of course there are coaches who will do everything they can to circumvent any such restrictions to get a win, but there are also a lot of them who get it and try to teach the kids to play possession out of the back. I did some 9v9 games this weekend, and again, it depends on the club and the coach as to how much this carries over. that being said, it's my belief that teams and players need to know how to play all style, and when to play it long and when to build. just like every successful team does at every level. i wasn't a fan at first, but it's fun to watch when a team of ten year old girls have set plays to successfully get out and keep the ball even with moderate pressure.


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## rainbow_unicorn (Sep 11, 2018)

watfly said:


> Unfortunately, I haven't seen any real tangible benefit to the BOL.  Coaches that don't teach Building out the Back ("BOTB") just figure out ways around the BOL to boot the ball.  It might assist those coaches that teach BOTB but that benefit is negligible and doesn't compensate for the game time lost waiting for the kids to get behind the BOL.  (Particularly when you still have certain refs that make the opposing team retreat behind the BOL and don't allow a quick restart.)  Its also counter intuitive since to be most effective, BOTB has to be done quickly.  To me the BOL is an unnecessary complication of a simple game.  Personally I would rather have BOTB taught and not legislated by changing the laws of the game.  (Unfortunately USSF would rather makeup rules to change the game then to make coaching education more accessible).
> 
> Trust me, I hate keeper punts,  they're probably the least effective play in soccer.   You give up possession over 50% of the time and it is often turned into a counter attack by the opposing team.  However, I don't think the BOL has done much to change that in the long term.


You say there's no benefit with BOL and that kickball is even worse...yet offer up no alternative solutions.  Forcing youngers to play out of the back is a great way to get away from horrible kickball games that we know the youngers can devolve into quickly if the BOL rule did not exist.  Most U-10 teams (and younger) do not know how to play out of the back effectively...*and that's OK*.  It's a learning process that takes years to develop and the BOL is helping them to think of basic passing/spacing concepts at an earlier age.  

If we want to improve as a soccer nation then we have to get away from the immediate gratification impulse and understand that it takes time for soccer players to develop.  Enjoy those moments when your team is stringing together 2, 3 or 4 passes together.  I would rather see our team making an effort to pass and lose than playing kick ball/high pressure and getting a win.


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## timbuck (Sep 11, 2018)

Another benefit of the build out line -  Less goals are being scored by the opposing team who jumps all over a weakly played GK.
A goal kick should be an advantage for the team that is taking the kick.  Prior to the build out line, I'd wager that more goals at these ages were scored by the opposing team gobbling up a goal kick than there were scored off of corner kicks.
I bet there were some coaches that even encouraged their teams to always shoot.  The worst that can happen is that you miss wide or over the goal.  Guess what? It's a goal kick coming out and we have a good chance of scoring on a GK coming at us.


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## watfly (Sep 11, 2018)

rainbow_unicorn said:


> You say there's no benefit with BOL and that kickball is even worse...yet offer up no alternative solutions.  Forcing youngers to play out of the back is a great way to get away from horrible kickball games that we know the youngers can devolve into quickly if the BOL rule did not exist.  Most U-10 teams (and younger) do not know how to play out of the back effectively...*and that's OK*.  It's a learning process that takes years to develop and the BOL is helping them to think of basic passing/spacing concepts at an earlier age.
> 
> If we want to improve as a soccer nation then we have to get away from the immediate gratification impulse and understand that it takes time for soccer players to develop.  Enjoy those moments when your team is stringing together 2, 3 or 4 passes together.  I would rather see our team making an effort to pass and lose than playing kick ball/high pressure and getting a win.


As I stated before, a better solution is to educate coaches on building out the back (specifically make coach training more readily accessible and cost friendly) instead of legislating changes to how the game is played.  I'm not inherently opposed to the BOL; however, its "cost" of changing and slowing down the game is not worth the limited "benefit" it provides which for the most part is only temporary.  BOTB requires players to be able to make quick decisions while under pressure, as opposed to stopping the game and moving everyone up field so little Johnny can get an uncontested pass.   I get it, teaching BOTB is a disaster when youngers are first learning and drives uneducated parents crazy when their kids give up 5 goals trying to pass out the back.   However, what's the point of delaying the inevitable for a few years?  To me the BOL is just a crutch and are like training wheels on a bike, it gives people comfort but actually delays the learning of the skill.  My other recommendation is futsal, while not apples to oranges, it does provide a good foundation for playing out the back.


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## timbuck (Sep 11, 2018)

Nah -  look at it like the youngest ages of youth basketball.  Most leagues don't allow teams to play a zone defense.  It's too easy to pack the paint and try to force little Johnny to hit 15 footers.  Making them play man allows for better chances to get open and to shoot a layup or a 7 foot shot without having 5 defenders hanging all over you.


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## baldref (Sep 11, 2018)

I did five games of 7v7 at Blues cup, and most of the teams have figured it out and it doesn't slow down the game at all. the defenders back out, sometimes with my help in telling them to, and the attacking goalies had it figured out too. they had their heads up seeing the field and figuring out where to go. it doesn't always work out, but when it does, it's really cool. some teams had a couple of set plays with players positioned to make passes. it is what it is. and it works just fine. in a few years, it will be the norm and this discussion will be over.


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## watfly (Sep 11, 2018)

baldref said:


> I did five games of 7v7 at Blues cup, and most of the teams have figured it out and it doesn't slow down the game at all. the defenders back out, sometimes with my help in telling them to, and the attacking goalies had it figured out too. they had their heads up seeing the field and figuring out where to go. it doesn't always work out, but when it does, it's really cool. some teams had a couple of set plays with players positioned to make passes. it is what it is. and it works just fine. in a few years, it will be the norm and this discussion will be over.


I appreciate your perspective and I have no doubts that it will be the new norm.  If goalies are playing heads up that's a positive. I just feel we would have more substantive and long term returns if coaches were educated and learned the importance of BOTB as opposed to be forced to do it (through changes to the "Laws") with youngers for a few years.


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