# ECNL Policies



## GeekKid

Does ECNL mandate video recording games and submitting game statistics like minutes played, assists, goals etc..?  I know that GDA did this and some clubs shared videos for scouting purposes, does ECNL do the same?


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## ChalkOnYourBoots

Little is "mandated" in ECNL... that's not a slam... it's not a bug, it's a feature.
I'm sure many clubs video everything, and break down tape religiously, and I'm sure there are some that couldn't care less.


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## shales1002

GeekKid said:


> Does ECNL mandate video recording games and submitting game statistics like minutes played, assists, goals etc..?  I know that GDA did this and some clubs shared videos for scouting purposes, does ECNL do the same?


This is one area I see ECNL was better at for the most part. Game statistics (assists, goals, goals allowed, and saves) have to be reported immediately after the game. Because subs are allowed in each half, minutes played aren't necessarily kept (unless you are that parent who counts every minute your child plays). There is a very short window to report stats, maybe a few hours afterward the game has ended. None of this waiting for months to see who actually won a game (GDA). Most clubs have games recorded.  I also know most clubs also have training staff at the games as well.


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## Ellejustus

shales1002 said:


> This is one area I see ECNL was better at for the most part. Game statistics (assists, goals, goals allowed, and saves) have to be reported immediately after the game. Because subs are allowed in each half, minutes played aren't necessarily kept *(unless you are that parent who counts every minute your child plays).* There is a very short window to report stats, maybe a few hours afterward the game has ended. None of this waiting for months to see who actually won a game (GDA). Most clubs have games recorded.  I also know most clubs also have training staff at the games as well.


That parent is the #1 problem we have in soccer.  The clock watcher and how come this and how come that and you said this and you said that


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## Soccerfan2

shales1002 said:


> This is one area I see ECNL was better at for the most part. Game statistics (assists, goals, goals allowed, and saves) have to be reported immediately after the game. Because subs are allowed in each half, minutes played aren't necessarily kept (unless you are that parent who counts every minute your child plays). There is a very short window to report stats, maybe a few hours afterward the game has ended. None of this waiting for months to see who actually won a game (GDA). Most clubs have games recorded.  I also know most clubs also have training staff at the games as well.


When I’ve gone to look at game stats for ECNL games I find it’s usually missing.


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## youthsportsugh

Soccerfan2 said:


> When I’ve gone to look at game stats for ECNL games I find it’s usually missing.


That being said the DA stats weren't always accurate in who played what minutes and who scored the goals.  I know my kid went into the game and in the game report she wasn't listed as having any minutes played -- it didn't bother me and I didn't say anything, but unless there is a specifically dedicated person that takes care of that (not the refs game card) it won't be all that accurate.


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## Soccerfan2

youthsportsugh said:


> That being said the DA stats weren't always accurate in who played what minutes and who scored the goals.  I know my kid went into the game and in the game report she wasn't listed as having any minutes played -- it didn't bother me and I didn't say anything, but unless there is a specifically dedicated person that takes care of that (not the refs game card) it won't be all that accurate.


Yes, true. I saw a few mistakes each season. Minutes attributed to the wrong person or goals attributed to the wrong person. I’d say 85%+ accuracy for our team. Not perfect, but not bad at all. I found the stats useful and a nice feature.


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## shales1002

Soccerfan2 said:


> When I’ve gone to look at game stats for ECNL games I find it’s usually missing.


Let me clarify...the scores are posted within six hours after a game is played. It’s up to the managers to go back and add stats.


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## GeekKid

Soccerfan2 said:


> Yes, true. I saw a few mistakes each season. Minutes attributed to the wrong person or goals attributed to the wrong person. I’d say 85%+ accuracy for our team. Not perfect, but not bad at all. I found the stats useful and a nice feature.


I was more interested in the video and scout films.


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## borussia

GeekKid said:


> I was more interested in the video and scout films.


It is not mandated by ECNL, if a team or club does it it's because the team or club decides to do it. And the expense is on the parents


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## Ellejustus

I hated it when the GDA put all those stats online.  How embarrassing for some kids.  I won;t share why it;s lame but that was stupid.  Goals, Assists is about all you need for the youth.


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## Soccerfan2

GeekKid said:


> I was more interested in the video and scout films.


Yes. Having video of every game in the DA was so valuable. We’ve used it to make highlight videos, to analyze my DD’s play and see places where she can technically and tactically improve, and to watch other strong players to learn from them.


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## Ellejustus

Ellejustus said:


> I hated it when the GDA put all those stats online.  How embarrassing for some kids.  I won;t share why it;s lame but that was stupid.  Goals, Assists is about all you need for the youth.


Actually, I will share why it's lame to share embarrassing stats like the, start% stat, minutes snubbed out stat, when I came into the game stat, when the goals were scored stats, how many 05's were playing up stat, and who was there and who was not stat.  It's more revealing to the lameness of the league and one of the reasons it failed to stay open. 

College scout: Hey Patty,, how come you didn't start all the time
Patty: Ah, um ah..............


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## Desert Hound

shales1002 said:


> Let me clarify...the scores are posted within six hours after a game is played. It’s up to the managers to go back and add stats.


And most managers don't consistently put in stats unfortunately. 
The games scores are usually posted quickly.


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## timbuck

Just because it's not a policy, it doesn't mean that teams can't track these stats or video all games. Hopefully some clubs see these things as competitive differentiation and put programs in place to elevate the game for their players.


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## Ellejustus

Soccerfan2 said:


> Yes. Having video of every game in the DA was so valuable. We’ve used it to make highlight videos, to analyze my DD’s play and see places where she can technically and tactically improve, and to watch other strong players to learn from them.


I watched a few and could only find two games that had fire in the eyes of the players in 2017.  The other games I would not want a college coach to watch.  Slice & Dice that video.  I have a trick that actually speeds up the video by .00234 per video second ((pvs)).


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## futboldad1

GeekKid said:


> I was more interested in the video and scout films.


I asked our D.O.C this very question.......to his knowledge every club in the S-W conference films every ECNL game they host from high vantage point provided as part of usual club fees.......my dd club will be doing this.....hopefully it is the same in Texas ECNL conference, Solar is a good club so I would think they will be doing this.......


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## Ellejustus

futboldad1 said:


> I asked our D.O.C this very question.......to his knowledge every club in the S-W conference films every ECNL game they host from high vantage point provided as part of usual club fees.......our club will be doing this.....hopefully it is the same in Texas ECNL conference, Solar is a good club so I would think they will be doing this.......


That is 100% true with my dd OC Strikers team.  Watch out for this club you guys.  I have every video of every game our team has played except road games. Question to my ECNL family.  How does one get a copy of the video from our road games?  My dd scored a great left footed shot after the goalie made a huge save on the same play on her and I need that for her highlight real that my new friend on here is going to do for my dd.  I was going to wait but I see things opening up so I want to get that video going brother J-


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## Jose has returned

Desert Hound said:


> And most managers don't consistently put in stats unfortunately.
> The games scores are usually posted quickly.


most managers are parents which can be a problem in itself


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## GeekKid

futboldad1 said:


> I asked our D.O.C this very question.......to his knowledge every club in the S-W conference films every ECNL game they host from high vantage point provided as part of usual club fees.......my dd club will be doing this.....hopefully it is the same in Texas ECNL conference, Solar is a good club so I would think they will be doing this.......


I'll be checking with our manager, coach and DOC.  I can't imagine them not doing this.  Thanks!


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## shales1002

Jose has returned said:


> most managers are parents which can be a problem in itself


That's odd. Why would someone else manage the team? Is this because of a perceived advantage with regard to playing time? If so, the least debated player on the field will be the gk.


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## Ellejustus

shales1002 said:


> That's odd. Why would someone else manage the team? Is this because of a perceived advantage with regard to playing time? If so, the least debated player on the field will be the gk.


There lies another big problem in club soccer.  Managers being parents of players.  Don;t get me started Shales.  Go Bruins!!!


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## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> There lies another big problem in club soccer.  Managers being parents of players.  Don;t get me started Shales.  Go Bruins!!!


A manager who is someone other than a parent would need to be paid, and we know how you feel about that.


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## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> A manager who is someone other than a parent would need to be paid, and we know how you feel about that.


Again, I'm for what Spain has for the top players around 7 or 8th grade.  Again, were only talking about a very select few.  Everyone else can play club med soccer.  My dd, as it turns out, was better suited for HS Soccer and College experience.  I still support the best of the best getting it all paid for if they want to go for it and trained 5 days a week, 10 months out of year.  My dd would have said no and I would be paying like i am now for a service to help my dd get into CSUF, Cal, USC or Idaho St.  Help is help and I get it and you should pay for that help.  Plus, it's worth the $3k because my dd is having fun for the most part.  HS Soccer has been the funniest part of all to be real EOTL.


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## LadiesMan217

Ellejustus said:


> There lies another big problem in club soccer.  Managers being parents of players.  Don;t get me started Shales.  Go Bruins!!!


Some of these managers also do favors for the coach (if you know what I mean) whom in turn do favors for the player...


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## EOTL

LadiesMan217 said:


> Some of these managers also do favors for the coach (if you know what I mean) whom in turn do favors for the player...


Sure, but a far higher percentage of soccer parents can’t accept the truth and make s**t up to rationalize why their daughter doesn’t get playing time. 

If you don’t want to have sex with a soccer coach, don’t. If you do, that is gross.


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## Jose has returned

LadiesMan217 said:


> Some of these managers also do favors for the coach (if you know what I mean) whom in turn do favors for the player...











						Well, your mama sure does care about your schooling, son.
					

Forrest Gump (1994) clip with quote Well, your mama sure does care about your schooling, son.     Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote.     Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share.     Easily move forward or backward to get to the perfect clip.




					getyarn.io
				




your mama sure does care about your schoolin


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## Ellejustus

Jose has returned said:


> Well, your mama sure does care about your schooling, son.
> 
> 
> Forrest Gump (1994) clip with quote Well, your mama sure does care about your schooling, son.     Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote.     Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share.     Easily move forward or backward to get to the perfect clip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> getyarn.io
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your mama sure does care about your schoolin


Lot's of Gumping going on?  I didn't hear about that at all.  Ewwwwwwww, that's gross!!!!


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## 46n2

Manager have a job alot of parents don't want to do.....hows got time for players card, field fee, emails etc.... they can have it .
I respect that


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## Keepers_Keeper

Thoughts from an ECNL team manager... 

Re:  video...our club does not provide video.  It's up to each team to coordinate and pay for video packages and get team parents to cover cost or include it in the team fees collected from parents.
Managers (at least this one) pay the same as every other player.  Registration, team fees, travel, etc.  We volunteer our time and don't get anything for free.  
Stats aren't a part of our job.  Why?  See next points...
We are the primary 'promoter' for every player to college coaches - not just our own.  We make every effort to know and treat every player as our own.   
Instead of watching games, we are talking to college coaches, developing relationships, sticking tampons up players noses to stop nose bleeds, getting ice, and so many other things that most parents don't even see.
I won't even mention the countless hours spent talking with team coaches to coordinate practices, organize schedules/tournaments/fitness, fundraisers, team building activities, etc.  
Dealing with hotel reservations for ECNL tournaments (Maverics and Anthony Travel)...don't even get me started. 
Create and manage budgets, which include coach expenses and travel arrangements, collect team fees (another job in itself sometimes),  not to mention take down/set up for home games...
Most team parents are appreciative, but some are not.  Some barely give us the time of day until they want something special for their player. And some talk about us (and our players) behind our backs.  
We love and care for the players.  All of them.  We do everything for them.  We are their advocates.  We hear how much they hate their parents going to their games.  We hear their doubts about their abilities and hear them worry about what their parents will say about the one mistake they made and not praise them for the 50 other things they did to help their teammates play their best.  Yet we defend you and tell your players that you love them and are just trying to be supportive "in your own way".  
We comfort them when the college coach that promised to show up to the game didn't.  And that some players are recruited without putting out much effort, while some work so hard and endure countless injuries but will end their soccer careers prematurely either due to injury or not receiving offers. 
So much more...just wanted to share a few of the big picture tasks that managers do voluntarily, without compensation and often without notice or appreciation.  Except by the players - they know what we do for them, which is why we do it.  
'nuff said.  I love my job and will miss it and every single player tremendously.


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## Ellejustus

Thoughts from an ECNL team manager..*.((thoughts from a parent who has had 10 different TM))*


Managers (at least this one) pay the same as every other player.  Registration, team fees, travel, etc.  We volunteer our time and don't get anything for free.* Thank you. I think you should get a 50% discount imo.  *
We are the primary 'promoter' for every player to college coaches - not just our own.  We make every effort to know and treat every player as our own.  *((No offense, this is my #1 one complaint. What if the TM has it out for your kid?  I did not wnat any TM promoting my kid.  Yikes!!!))*
Instead of watching games, we are talking to college coaches, developing relationships, sticking tampons up players noses to stop nose bleeds, getting ice, and so many other things that most parents don't even see.  ((*Again, I don;t want you building a relationship with any college coaches on my dd behalf.  That is for my kid and her only.  My kid can play and the coach can watch and those two can do their own, "meet & greet" or some call, one on one)).* 
I won't even mention the countless hours spent talking with team coaches to coordinate practices, organize schedules/tournaments/fitness, fundraisers, team building activities, etc. *Thank you!*
Dealing with hotel reservations for ECNL tournaments (Mavericks and Anthony Travel)...don't even get me started.  *Thank you!*
Create and manage budgets, which include coach expenses and travel arrangements, collect team fees (another job in itself sometimes),  not to mention take down/set up for home games...* Thank you!*
Most team parents are appreciative, but some are not.  Some barely give us the time of day until they want something special for their player. And some talk about us (and our players) behind our backs.  I see that all the time.  ((*That is why it's not a good place for someone like you chatting up with the college coaches on our behalf.  That needs to end.  I always hated that)).  *
We love and care for the players.  All of them.* ((except the one's talking behind your back.....lol))*  We do everything for them.  We are their advocates.  We hear how much they hate their parents going to their games. *((My kid loves when we go the game.  In fact, we love it too))* We hear their doubts about their abilities and hear them worry about what their parents will say about the one mistake they made and not praise them for the 50 other things they did to help their teammates play their best.  Yet we defend you and tell your players that you love them and are just trying to be supportive "in your own way".  *((sounds like your the one gossiping TM))*
We comfort them when the college coach that promised to show up to the game didn't.   And that some players are recruited without putting out much effort, while some work so hard and endure countless injuries but will end their soccer careers prematurely either due to injury or not receiving offers. * ((Please, let the parents comfort their own children.  You're starting to scare me))*
So much more...just wanted to share a few of the big picture tasks that managers do voluntarily, without compensation and often without notice or appreciation.  Except by the players - they know what we do for them, which is why we do it. *((Except one big glaring benefit.  You get to meet and chat with all the college coaches.  Thanks for all you do TM))*
'nuff said.  I love my job and will miss it and every single player......*.((We will miss you too))*


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## gotothebushes

Keepers_Keeper said:


> Thoughts from an ECNL team manager...
> 
> Re:  video...our club does not provide video.  It's up to each team to coordinate and pay for video packages and get team parents to cover cost or include it in the team fees collected from parents.
> Managers (at least this one) pay the same as every other player.  Registration, team fees, travel, etc.  We volunteer our time and don't get anything for free.
> Stats aren't a part of our job.  Why?  See next points...
> We are the primary 'promoter' for every player to college coaches - not just our own.  We make every effort to know and treat every player as our own.
> Instead of watching games, we are talking to college coaches, developing relationships, sticking tampons up players noses to stop nose bleeds, getting ice, and so many other things that most parents don't even see.
> I won't even mention the countless hours spent talking with team coaches to coordinate practices, organize schedules/tournaments/fitness, fundraisers, team building activities, etc.
> Dealing with hotel reservations for ECNL tournaments (Maverics and Anthony Travel)...don't even get me started.
> Create and manage budgets, which include coach expenses and travel arrangements, collect team fees (another job in itself sometimes),  not to mention take down/set up for home games...
> Most team parents are appreciative, but some are not.  Some barely give us the time of day until they want something special for their player. And some talk about us (and our players) behind our backs.
> We love and care for the players.  All of them.  We do everything for them.  We are their advocates.  We hear how much they hate their parents going to their games.  We hear their doubts about their abilities and hear them worry about what their parents will say about the one mistake they made and not praise them for the 50 other things they did to help their teammates play their best.  Yet we defend you and tell your players that you love them and are just trying to be supportive "in your own way".
> We comfort them when the college coach that promised to show up to the game didn't.  And that some players are recruited without putting out much effort, while some work so hard and endure countless injuries but will end their soccer careers prematurely either due to injury or not receiving offers.
> So much more...just wanted to share a few of the big picture tasks that managers do voluntarily, without compensation and often without notice or appreciation.  Except by the players - they know what we do for them, which is why we do it.
> 'nuff said.  I love my job and will miss it and every single player tremendously.


WELL SAID!!!!


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## gotothebushes

Keepers_Keeper said:


> Thoughts from an ECNL team manager...
> 
> Re:  video...our club does not provide video.  It's up to each team to coordinate and pay for video packages and get team parents to cover cost or include it in the team fees collected from parents.
> Managers (at least this one) pay the same as every other player.  Registration, team fees, travel, etc.  We volunteer our time and don't get anything for free.
> Stats aren't a part of our job.  Why?  See next points...
> We are the primary 'promoter' for every player to college coaches - not just our own.  We make every effort to know and treat every player as our own.
> Instead of watching games, we are talking to college coaches, developing relationships, sticking tampons up players noses to stop nose bleeds, getting ice, and so many other things that most parents don't even see.
> I won't even mention the countless hours spent talking with team coaches to coordinate practices, organize schedules/tournaments/fitness, fundraisers, team building activities, etc.
> Dealing with hotel reservations for ECNL tournaments (Maverics and Anthony Travel)...don't even get me started.
> Create and manage budgets, which include coach expenses and travel arrangements, collect team fees (another job in itself sometimes),  not to mention take down/set up for home games...
> Most team parents are appreciative, but some are not.  Some barely give us the time of day until they want something special for their player. And some talk about us (and our players) behind our backs.
> We love and care for the players.  All of them.  We do everything for them.  We are their advocates.  We hear how much they hate their parents going to their games.  We hear their doubts about their abilities and hear them worry about what their parents will say about the one mistake they made and not praise them for the 50 other things they did to help their teammates play their best.  Yet we defend you and tell your players that you love them and are just trying to be supportive "in your own way".
> We comfort them when the college coach that promised to show up to the game didn't.  And that some players are recruited without putting out much effort, while some work so hard and endure countless injuries but will end their soccer careers prematurely either due to injury or not receiving offers.
> So much more...just wanted to share a few of the big picture tasks that managers do voluntarily, without compensation and often without notice or appreciation.  Except by the players - they know what we do for them, which is why we do it.
> 'nuff said.  I love my job and will miss it and every single player tremendously.


 WELL SAID! As a parent I appreciate all TM do for my kid. Its a thankless job. So I thank you for putting in hours of your free time to help in any way.


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## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> WELL SAID! As a parent I appreciate all TM do for my kid. Its a thankless job. So I thank you for putting in hours of your free time to help in any way.


That was the old TM way and for some like you, it was awesome and so happy for you.  Bro, look what a TM had to do for all the parents for free?  Talk about being a promotor?  I would hate that job.  That was just wrong.  Plus, and this happened a lot, if you have an issue or dd has one with a mean TM who is vindictive, you could be in a world of hurt, no?


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## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> That was the old TM way and for some like you, it was awesome and so happy for you.  Bro, look what a TM had to do for all the parents for free?  Talk about being a promotor?  I would hate that job.  That was just wrong.  Plus, and this happened a lot, if you have an issue or dd has one with a mean TM who is vindictive, you could be in a world of hurt, no?


 It's a thankless job. They do a lot and have to listen to parents complain and complain when they should be going straight to the coach. We and agree to disagree.


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## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> It's a thankless job. They do a lot and have to listen to parents complain and complain when they should be going straight to the coach. We and agree to disagree.


Agree to disagree with what?


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## Keepers_Keeper

Ellejustus said:


> Thoughts from an ECNL team manager..*.((thoughts from a parent who has had 10 different TM))*
> 
> 
> Managers (at least this one) pay the same as every other player.  Registration, team fees, travel, etc.  We volunteer our time and don't get anything for free.* Thank you. I think you should get a 50% discount imo.  *
> We are the primary 'promoter' for every player to college coaches - not just our own.  We make every effort to know and treat every player as our own.  *((No offense, this is my #1 one complaint. What if the TM has it out for your kid?  I did not wnat any TM promoting my kid.  Yikes!!!))*
> ((*Again, I don;t want you building a relationship with any college coaches on my dd behalf.  That is for my kid and her only.  My kid can play and the coach can watch and those two can do their own, "meet & greet" or some call, one on one)).*
> ((*That is why it's not a good place for someone like you chatting up with the college coaches on our behalf.  That needs to end.  I always hated that)).  *


Before I get blasted...let me  clarify.  Speaking only for myself, interaction with college coaches is limited to what the players and parents expect.  As managers, we get to know the coaches.  We know which ones like to talk and ask questions, and which ones don't.  Sorry if I over emphasized that.  The point is that when we have 50+ colleges represented at a game, it's a lot of work and often the coaches engage us with questions.  You are 100% right...if and when players contact coaches they give us a list of colleges.  I know what each player and parent expects.  So there are no lines crossed or promotion of players in excess of parent's wish.


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## Ellejustus

Keepers_Keeper said:


> Before I get blasted...let me  clarify.  Speaking only for myself, interaction with college coaches is limited to what the players and parents expect.  As managers, we get to know the coaches.  We know which ones like to talk and ask questions, and which ones don't.  Sorry if I over emphasized that.  The point is that when we have 50+ colleges represented at a game, it's a lot of work and often the coaches engage us with questions.  You are 100% right...if and when players contact coaches they give us a list of colleges.  I know what each player and parent expects.  So there are no lines crossed or promotion of players in excess of parent's wish.


Thanks for clairfying TM.  I really do appreciate all you guys have to do.  My wife was TM for HS and it was awesome and everyone helped.  Club TM is thankless and that's why I or my wife would say no all the time.  TY again for helping the team and you seem like a great person.  Sorry for reading your words too strong.


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## Ellejustus

And let me clarify.  I just don't think Club TM should be the person going over and hand out papers.  maybe my kid after the game can go shake their hands ((fist pump)) and say thank you for coming to watch.  Make it more for the girls.  Just my .02


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## Keepers_Keeper

Ellejustus said:


> Thanks for clairfying TM.  I really do appreciate all you guys have to do.  My wife was TM for HS and it was awesome and everyone helped.  Club TM is thankless and that's why I or my wife would say no all the time.  TY again for helping the team and you seem like a great person.  Sorry for reading your words too strong.


No worries.  It's part of the job   And thanks.  Your appreciation is appreciated   I should have been less self-promotion-y


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## GeekKid

Keepers_Keeper said:


> Thoughts from an ECNL team manager...
> 
> Re:  video...our club does not provide video.  It's up to each team to coordinate and pay for video packages and get team parents to cover cost or include it in the team fees collected from parents.
> Managers (at least this one) pay the same as every other player.  Registration, team fees, travel, etc.  We volunteer our time and don't get anything for free.
> Stats aren't a part of our job.  Why?  See next points...
> We are the primary 'promoter' for every player to college coaches - not just our own.  We make every effort to know and treat every player as our own.
> Instead of watching games, we are talking to college coaches, developing relationships, sticking tampons up players noses to stop nose bleeds, getting ice, and so many other things that most parents don't even see.
> I won't even mention the countless hours spent talking with team coaches to coordinate practices, organize schedules/tournaments/fitness, fundraisers, team building activities, etc.
> Dealing with hotel reservations for ECNL tournaments (Maverics and Anthony Travel)...don't even get me started.
> Create and manage budgets, which include coach expenses and travel arrangements, collect team fees (another job in itself sometimes),  not to mention take down/set up for home games...
> Most team parents are appreciative, but some are not.  Some barely give us the time of day until they want something special for their player. And some talk about us (and our players) behind our backs.
> We love and care for the players.  All of them.  We do everything for them.  We are their advocates.  We hear how much they hate their parents going to their games.  We hear their doubts about their abilities and hear them worry about what their parents will say about the one mistake they made and not praise them for the 50 other things they did to help their teammates play their best.  Yet we defend you and tell your players that you love them and are just trying to be supportive "in your own way".
> We comfort them when the college coach that promised to show up to the game didn't.  And that some players are recruited without putting out much effort, while some work so hard and endure countless injuries but will end their soccer careers prematurely either due to injury or not receiving offers.
> So much more...just wanted to share a few of the big picture tasks that managers do voluntarily, without compensation and often without notice or appreciation.  Except by the players - they know what we do for them, which is why we do it.
> 'nuff said.  I love my job and will miss it and every single player tremendously.


Trust me when I say I appreciate all that is done by the TM, having direct firsthand knowledge. Our team divvies up the responsibilities that you seem to take on yourself.  We have a parent who oversees travel, two parents that distribute handouts to college scouts at showcases, two parents that oversee social media as well as the TM who sits on the bench who looks after the girls as well as keeps stats, organizes the cards and various other duties that I’m probably not even aware of.


----------



## Keepers_Keeper

Ellejustus said:


> And let me clarify.  I just don't think Club TM should be the person going over and hand out papers.  maybe my kid after the game can go shake their hands ((fist pump)) and say thank you for coming to watch.  Make it more for the girls.  Just my .02


We all have to comply with NCAA rules...players can't contact or have any direct communication early in the recruiting process, so coaches, club directors etc are the primary conduits.  But TMs are more visible and accessible at showcases & tourneys.  TMs distribute team brochures.     Have had many college coaches give me their cards and request a player + parents stay after the games to talk or call them.   Happens all the time.  We are facilitators (more appropriate term than promoter).


----------



## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> Again, I'm for what Spain has for the top players around 7 or 8th grade.  Again, were only talking about a very select few.  Everyone else can play club med soccer.  My dd, as it turns out, was better suited for HS Soccer and College experience.  I still support the best of the best getting it all paid for if they want to go for it and trained 5 days a week, 10 months out of year.  My dd would have said no and I would be paying like i am now for a service to help my dd get into CSUF, Cal, USC or Idaho St.  Help is help and I get it and you should pay for that help.  Plus, it's worth the $3k because my dd is having fun for the most part.  HS Soccer has been the funniest part of all to be real EOTL.


Spain has been very successful on the women’s side, so we should definitely do what they are doing. It also makes a lot of sense given how similar the two countries are in size and geography. U.S. is only 20x larger with its two largest cities almost 3000 miles apart. Or...

We could leave things as is, which has resulted in the WNT becoming the greatest soccer power the world has ever known and, more importantly, opened up educational opportunities for 10s of thousands.


----------



## Ellejustus

GeekKid said:


> Trust me when I say I appreciate all that is done by the TM, having direct firsthand knowledge. Our team divvies up the responsibilities that you seem to take on yourself.  We have a parent who oversees travel, two parents that distribute handouts to college scouts at showcases, two parents that oversee social media as well as the TM who sits on the bench who looks after the girls as well as keeps stats, organizes the cards and various other duties that I’m probably not even aware of.


I know one mom that told me the other day she she felt like a part time travel agent for her GDA team.  I got a good laugh when you wrote you have a parent overseeing travel.  Plus, two parents handing out handouts to college coaches seems over kill to me.  I watched for 30 minutes at one showcase with my own eyes what those coaches do with those handouts.  I'll leave it at that.  Q.  What's up with the two parents who oversee Social Media? Please elaborate, I'm curious and I don;t want to jump to conclusions.


----------



## Ellejustus

Keepers_Keeper said:


> We all have to comply with NCAA rules...players can't contact or have any direct communication early in the recruiting process, so coaches, club directors etc are the primary conduits.  But TMs are more visible and accessible at showcases & tourneys.  TMs distribute team brochures.     Have had many college coaches give me their cards and request a player + parents stay after the games to talk or call them.   Happens all the time.  We are facilitators (more appropriate term than promoter).


Not no more, which is awesome   June 15th my soon to be Jr can set up her own talks and promote herself by looking at the coach in the eye and to begin her own recruiting process.  No dad or mom their either or her coach or doc or tm.  My dd can;t wait.  Her coach has been helping her behind the scenes too, meaning the email and video.  This is all new and very good for the girls to make sound decisions.  Its great for both parties to slow down a little.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> Spain has been very successful on the women’s side, so we should definitely do what they are doing. It also makes a lot of sense given how similar the two countries are in size and geography. U.S. is only 20x larger with its two largest cities almost 3000 miles apart. Or...
> 
> We could leave things as is, which has resulted in the WNT becoming the greatest soccer power the world has ever known and, more importantly, opened up educational opportunities for 10s of thousands.


or we could do that too.  I watched this past world cup and I saw some holes in our game of possession.  We almost lost too.  PK saved us.  We still are more physical and that alone might allow us to win,  However, it's not possession like little Spain and other teams.  I want us to be fastest, most physical and play great possession ball.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> And let me clarify.  I just don't think Club TM should be the person going over and hand out papers.  maybe my kid after the game can go shake their hands ((fist pump)) and say thank you for coming to watch.  Make it more for the girls.  Just my .02


Then who do you think should handle this job?  

I think you are misinterpreting what the Poster is saying when they “chat it up with Coach’s”. They aren’t advocating for players. 

I volunteer to pass these flyers out during games because it is tough to cover the whole field and Coaches tend to spread out. Once an a while a CC will ask if a certain player is there and you simply answer yes or no.  There is no conversation about players that happens in these cases what so ever.
A Coach may also ask the score or how your day is going, but that is the extent.

If you’re not comfortable with that, you have the right to instruct the TM to remove your DD from the flyer that they make for the team (with headshots, bio and Grad year) and handout to every College coach that attends games.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Then who do you think should handle this job?
> 
> I think you are misinterpreting what the Poster is saying when they “chat it up with Coach’s”. They aren’t advocating for players.
> 
> I volunteer to pass these flyers out during games because it is tough to cover the whole field and Coaches tend to spread out. Once an a while a CC will ask if a certain player is there and you simply answer yes or no.  There is no conversation about players that happens in these cases what so ever.
> A Coach may also ask the score or how your day is going, but that is the extent.
> 
> If you’re not comfortable with that, you have the right to instruct the TM to remove your DD from the flyer that they make for the team (with headshots, bio and Grad year) and handout to every College coach that attends games.


The GDA league was stupid for 8th graders but whatever Kicker.  The next year, I was so confused Kicker because the rules were changing and we didn;t send emails.  The pressure to send emails back then was lame too.  All I'm saying is if I had you doing my dd leg work, that would suck!!!  Today, my dd needs no help from TM like you to hand things out for her.  The coach will see with his eyes and then the two can go chat all they want now after June 15th.  That is so beautiful.  Good rule change and one that is good for my dd.


----------



## gotothebushes

Kicker4Life said:


> Then who do you think should handle this job?
> 
> I think you are misinterpreting what the Poster is saying when they “chat it up with Coach’s”. They aren’t advocating for players.
> 
> I volunteer to pass these flyers out during games because it is tough to cover the whole field and Coaches tend to spread out. Once an a while a CC will ask if a certain player is there and you simply answer yes or no.  There is no conversation about players that happens in these cases what so ever.
> A Coach may also ask the score or how your day is going, but that is the extent.
> 
> If you’re not comfortable with that, you have the right to instruct the TM to remove your DD from the flyer that they make for the team (with headshots, bio and Grad year) and handout to every College coach that attends games.


And just adding more work and drama for the TM to have to deal with. Not an easy job at all! Good points Kicker!


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> And just adding more work and drama for the TM to have to deal with. Not an easy job at all! Good points Kicker!


My gosh you guys, with how I've seen some of you act on here, I would be in big trouble if Kicker or you were my dd TM and the go to person to hand things out and say hi for my dd.  That is crazy ass stuff and needs to stop now.


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> My gosh you guys, with how I've seen some of you act on here, I would be in big trouble if Kicker or you were my dd TM and the go to person to hand things out and say hi for my dd.  That is crazy ass stuff and needs to stop now.


I still believe you are missing the Posters and Kickers point!


----------



## Keepers_Keeper

Kicker4Life said:


> Then who do you think should handle this job?
> 
> I think you are misinterpreting what the Poster is saying when they “chat it up with Coach’s”. They aren’t advocating for players.
> 
> I volunteer to pass these flyers out during games because it is tough to cover the whole field and Coaches tend to spread out. Once an a while a CC will ask if a certain player is there and you simply answer yes or no.  There is no conversation about players that happens in these cases what so ever.
> A Coach may also ask the score or how your day is going, but that is the extent.
> 
> If you’re not comfortable with that, you have the right to instruct the TM to remove your DD from the flyer that they make for the team (with headshots, bio and Grad year) and handout to every College coach that attends games.


Exactly.  Thank you for understanding.  That is exactly how it's done.


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> I still believe you are missing the Posters and Kickers point!


Oh no I'm not.  I'm not saying their bad people for volunteering and running to chase down college coaches to hand them a piece of paper.  I actually dreamed that the college coach would be the one chasing down my dd when when she was 17, not 14.  Sorry, I don;t want or need the great Kicker or anyone like him do all my dd leg work for her.


----------



## vegasguy

Ellejustus said:


> And let me clarify.  I just don't think Club TM should be the person going over and hand out papers.  maybe my kid after the game can go shake their hands ((fist pump)) and say thank you for coming to watch.  Make it more for the girls.  Just my .02



College coaches are to busy to wait around after every game unless they are ready to talk to the player.    Have you ever seen their tournament spreadsheet of games and times and how long they can watch a player per day?


----------



## Ellejustus

I'm just being honest with you guys.  The showcase in all the leagues were over hyped and I was disappointed with the lay down and the competition. It seemed really fake and I and many parents left disappointed.  The fact that you guys have to chase the coaches down says it all right there.  Fly to Florida and have Kicker chase down the coaches on the kids behalf?  Wow, that is not appealing to me one bit.


----------



## Ellejustus

vegasguy said:


> College coaches are to busy to wait around after every game unless they are ready to talk to the player.    Have you ever seen their tournament spreadsheet of games and times and how long they can watch a player per day?


Yes, we had too many showcases too and games for them to travel too.  I watch people for a living and I can say it was "burn out" on most real peoples faces.  It was overkill and now we can fix all this BS.  It was the old way.  New way is coming coach.  Can you imagine Kicker running down Coach K for a potential Blue Chip he might have missed?  C'mon man.......


----------



## vegasguy

Ellejustus said:


> Yes, we had too many showcases too and games for them to travel too. I watch people for a living and I can say it was "burn out" on most real peoples faces. It was overkill and now we can fix all this BS. It was the old way. New way is coming coach. Can you imagine Kicker running down Coach K for a potential Blue Chip he might have missed? C'mon man.


Showcases are not for winning.  Showcase all players play 50% in my opinion.  I have left the bench and said hi to coaches and asked what they are looking for.    Be prepared, your daughter may try talking to a coach who is not there for her.  They will be honest if they are not there for yours.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Lol.  Running around....you stand in the corner with the flyer and they come to you or you walk over and hand them a flyer and walk away.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Lol.  Running around....you stand in the corner with the flyer and they come to you or you walk over and hand them a flyer and walk away.


LOL, I watched with my own eyes.  A coach would look for 10 seconds at the field at walk away and I've seen the TM walk faster and jog a little (sorry for saying chase)) to catch up to the coach as he's walking away and just like a relay race, the coach hands his hand back and TM makes a nice drop off.  It was the old way of doing things. New way is way better imo.  We would get this long list of coaches who "stopped" by for a peak.  I've asked what counts as a coach actually watching the game and I have yet to get a good answer. It just ddn;t seem very special, the old way that is.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> I've asked what counts as a coach actually watching the game and I have yet to get a good answer. It just ddn;t seem very special, the old way that is.


Hard to say what “counts” but if they sit down, pull out their pen, notepad, iPad, etc and are visibly paying attention, I would classify that as watching.
Sure there are some people (TM’s or parents) that are a bit over zealous, but that isn’t the norm or the majority.  

Most of the time, Coaches are stopping by a game tin watch a player that has reached out and caught their eye. You can try the, make the coach find your DD approach. Nothing wrong with doing things your way.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> Hard to say what “counts” but if they sit down, pull out their pen, notepad, iPad, etc and are visibly paying attention, I would classify that as watching.
> Sure there are some people (TM’s or parents) that are a bit over zealous, but that isn’t the norm or the majority.
> 
> Most of the time, Coaches are stopping by a game tin watch a player that has reached out and caught their eye. You can try the, make the coach find your DD approach. Nothing wrong with doing things your way.


I'm doing my things my way because that GDA league was joke and I had no choice but to get the hell out.  it's called "padding your numbers" so you look good too   Nothing like driving out to CO and having one coach stay and watch.  Get the email and they say 25 came to watch.  ((This was from a friend who shared with me the truth))


----------



## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> or we could do that too.  I watched this past world cup and I saw some holes in our game of possession.  We almost lost too.  PK saved us.  We still are more physical and that alone might allow us to win,  However, it's not possession like little Spain and other teams.  I want us to be fastest, most physical and play great possession ball.


Spain, like most countries, has implemented a system that is best for it in the short term to be competitive in light of the overwhelming limitations it faces with youth soccer on the girls side. But that system also perpetuates its continued failure and inability to ever become a soccer power. 

In Spain, very few little girls play soccer, and almost all of them give it by HS age because what is the point? There’s really no HS where you can be a “big deal” at school. It’s not a pathway to get into a better college or a scholarship. It isn’t a pathway to a career. There’s virtually no reason to play the sport into teen years, and certainly none worth playing it to the extent necessary to become a world class player. To overcome this massive disadvantage, Spain finds 20 or 30 kids in each age group while most kids who play soccer are still playing it and tried to turn them into the best soccer players they can be, and apparently makes it free as an inducement. But those 20 or 30 are never the athletes that come out of the 50,000 or more in the US who keep playing in each age group, nor are they players you can rely on to not choke. When you have 20 to choose from, you are forced to deal with kids with limitations that cannot be fully overcome even with the best technical training and skill that you can get out of them. You get a bunch of players whom you can turn into 10s in technical ability, but grow up to be 6s in athletic ability and 4s in intestinal fortitude. They’ll never compete with the likes of Lloyd or Ertz, rise from the US’s deep pool and might be 7s in technical ability, but are 10s as athletes and cold blooded killers. 

There’s just no way that Spain will ever be able to be great for long, or probably ever. Maybe you get a Marta who carries a team but still can’t win a WC, or the Iceland men’s team which manages to make a WC before fading back into obscurity. But that’s not why Spain’s way of doing things is doomed. 

Rather, their system perpetuates it’s continued failure because it does nothing to cause kids to want to play it. In Spain, there are maybe 4-5 girls in the entire country born every year who will eventually become mothers who might look at soccer as a potential pathway to something more than an little exercise until you’re 12. In the US, you have 10,000 every year who played college soccer and 100,000 who obtained some fulfillment playing HS. They probably sucked at soccer, but they had fun and that means they’ll encourage their kids to play. Then you add in the fact that virtually every girl in the US plays soccer when they’re little, and even the parents who never looked at soccer as a path to anything start to when they get educated by the 10s of thousands who do. From that, you get base of youth players that will never, ever be rivaled by another country. In other words, Spain’s system does nothing to change what holds it back, which is that so few people want to play it.  If we act like Spain, we’ll eventually get consistent results like Spain.

When people rip on HS soccer, they fail to understand why it is an important part of the US’s continued success. It is important because it causes people who will eventually become mothers to steeled their kids to soccer because they enjoyed it. It causes fathers to steer their precious little girls that direction because that’s what we do in America, plus daddy also remembers that Jenny who played HS was the most popular girl in school. 

I’ll say it again. The only thing that makes a great soccer power is that more kids play it and at a high level, they play it more often, and for a longer span of years. Everything you propose only helps level the playing field by taking away the one big advantage that sets the US apart.


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> I'm doing my things my way because that GDA league was joke and I had no choice but to get the hell out.  it's called "padding your numbers" so you look good too   Nothing like driving out to CO and having one coach stay and watch.  Get the email and they say 25 came to watch.  ((This was from a friend who shared with me the truth))


What does a league have to do with this discussion?  Just a few of us trying to give you perspective (yes...we should all know better).  

Go ahead, don’t email Coaches, have the TM take your DD’s info off the Team flyer and tell them if a Coach asks about your DD, nott answer them.  I don’t recommend it, but it makes no difference to me.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> What does a league have to do with this discussion?  Just a few of us trying to give you perspective (yes...we should all know better).
> 
> Go ahead, don’t email Coaches, have the TM take your DD’s info off the Team flyer and tell them if a Coach asks about your DD, nott answer them.  I don’t recommend it, but it makes no difference to me.


The league has everything to do with it for this father.  Again, when I signed up bro back in______________________________2017, it was for YNT with the hopes of pro.  That was the pitch to her and us.  So you can imagine how I felt when my dd was asked to send emails to coaches when she was 13 and 14 so she can practice when the coach calls to wish her a happy bday....lol, that's when and I got upset.  You can understand that, right?  Then, I see TMs running to college coaches when I wanted the coach to run up to the scouts for YNT.  You can;t sell me one thing and then pull out the D1 card.  I can see I was the only sold YNT and Pro pathway when it is obviously 100% all about college.  The sane people got mad at me for barking about all this.  I want us to win at the highest lever.  America first, not college game.


----------



## Technician72

Definitely multiple components to the recruiting process, and some aspects of it are over hyped. In my experience as a team manager for multiple teams, and experience managing a team in ECNL, there are a lot of things that can be done and the posts by multiple contributors here in regards to their war stories seem to highlight an improvement that can be made overall in the recruiting process as it seems like the current process is to cover all the bases possible because of the lack of "one" specific way players get recruited:

Videos / Highlights
Player Profile Pages / Links
Social Media Promotion / Outreach
E-Mails (Generic)
E-Mails (Specific)
Phone Calls
In Person Conversations
Team Profile / Pamphlets
Club Coach Outreach
Club Director Outreach
Team Manager Outreach

I'm guilty of having been involved in all of those, some to a greater extent than others as @Keepers_Keeper and @Kicker4Life outlined and clarified the outreach from a team manager is generic and very much just a hand off of basic information the college coach can then do what they please with.

Both my kids have gotten "nibbles" and a few "bites" from college coaches, through the email process. Coaches have responded to their emails after catching their games and have given their observations / notes on strengths and opportunities for improvement. They've had a lot of luck in particular with the assistant coaches for academic favorite colleges they'd like to attend.

It's a lot of work, but the more ground you / player can cover in the process will cast a bigger net when trying to catch what you're looking for. My oldest is on a good trajectory and has some things lined up so I'm hoping the next couple of years will seal the deal, so to speak. The youngest is going to be a whirlwind for sure, as she doesn't have a plan and lives in the moment, which I appreciate and envy at times. She's higher caliber in terms of "GOD given Talent" and I expect a roller coaster for the next 4 years with her.


----------



## Ellejustus

Technician72 said:


> Definitely multiple components to the recruiting process, and some aspects of it are over hyped. In my experience as a team manager for multiple teams, and experience managing a team in ECNL, there are a lot of things that can be done and the posts by multiple contributors here in regards to their war stories seem to highlight an improvement that can be made overall in the recruiting process as it seems like the current process is to cover all the bases possible because of the lack of "one" specific way players get recruited:
> 
> Videos / Highlights
> Player Profile Pages / Links
> Social Media Promotion / Outreach
> E-Mails (Generic)
> E-Mails (Specific)
> Phone Calls
> In Person Conversations
> Team Profile / Pamphlets
> Club Coach Outreach
> Club Director Outreach
> Team Manager Outreach
> 
> I'm guilty of having been involved in all of those, some to a greater extent than others as @Keepers_Keeper and @Kicker4Life outlined and clarified the outreach from a team manager is generic and very much just a hand off of basic information the college coach can then do what they please with.
> 
> Both my kids have gotten "nibbles" and a few "bites" from college coaches, through the email process. Coaches have responded to their emails after catching their games and have given their observations / notes on strengths and opportunities for improvement. They've had a lot of luck in particular with the assistant coaches for academic favorite colleges they'd like to attend.
> 
> It's a lot of work, but the more ground you / player can cover in the process will cast a bigger net when trying to catch what you're looking for. My oldest is on a good trajectory and has some things lined up so I'm hoping the next couple of years will seal the deal, so to speak. The youngest is going to be a whirlwind for sure, as she doesn't have a plan and lives in the moment, which I appreciate and envy at times. She's higher caliber in terms of "GOD given Talent" and I expect a roller coaster for the next 4 years with her.


The past is the past.  That old way was horrible and not special.  This new way is way better and it allows all of you sit and watch the game too.  I also would like to make a suggestion on the showcases.  Make them league games, not, "I don;t care if we win games."


----------



## Technician72

Ellejustus said:


> You can;t sell me one thing and then pull out the D1 card.  I can see I was the only sold YNT and Pro pathway when it is obviously 100% all about college.  The sane people got mad at me for barking about all this.  I want us to win at the highest lever.  America first, not college game.


Serious question, with several players / families taking the chance on their kid like OM parents and @MacDre with his DD, is going a route like that out of the question in your scenario? It may not be the "norm" but isn't out of the question anymore as several have laid out that pathway to be followed.

I'm very interested in seeing how @MacDre and his DDs dream play out as they've hedged their bets and have a calculated plan in place. I'm rooting for his DD as my pops went through the Fuerzas Basicas in Mexico and topped out around High School age. He went for his dream and it didn't pan out, but has no regrets.


----------



## Technician72

Ellejustus said:


> The past is the past.  That old way was horrible and not special.  This new way is way better and it allows all of you sit and watch the game too.  I also would like to make a suggestion on the showcases.  Make them league games, not, "I don;t care if we win games."


Definitely very difficult to try and whack all those "moles" in the recruiting / scouting process.

I may have missed the announcement of the "new way", has there been a structured plan on recruitment / scouting put in place with the league alignments? I wasn't able to find anything specific.

Showcases can certainly be improved, I think the pairing system has been a plus and fair to make for competitive games that can be beneficial for the recruiting / scouting process.


----------



## Ellejustus

Technician72 said:


> *Serious question*, with several players / families taking the chance on their kid like OM parents and @MacDre with his DD, *is going a route like that out of the question in your scenario?* It may not be the "norm" but isn't out of the question anymore as several have laid out that pathway to be followed.
> 
> I'm very interested in seeing how @MacDre and his DDs dream play out as they've hedged their bets and have a calculated plan in place. I'm rooting for his DD as my pops went through the Fuerzas Basicas in Mexico and topped out around High School age. He went for his dream and it didn't pan out, but has no regrets.


So the other comments you made were not serious?  Thanks for being serious today Tech.  The pro thing is out for now.  College is her goal now.  No money for pros.  I only see MLS helping like the NBA does for WNBA and that won;t happen for a long time.  If my dd goes pro, it will be after college and that is probably not likely.  She has been approached to model a few times too but she always tells those dudes to buzz off   I like what @MacDre is doing and I like what @Luis Andres is doing.  My kid went for it but the adults were cheats and put a very bad taste in her mouth brotha.  But, it's water under the bridge.  She will go for college and play for college cup.  I see her majoring in criminal justice or media and communications.  I see her being an investigative reporter or FBI crime buster some day


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> The league has everything to do with it for this father.  Again, when I signed up bro back in______________________________2017, it was for YNT with the hopes of pro.  That was the pitch to her and us.  So you can imagine how I felt when my dd was asked to send emails to coaches when she was 13 and 14 so she can practice when the coach calls to wish her a happy bday....lol, that's when and I got upset.  You can understand that, right?  Then, I see TMs running to college coaches when I wanted the coach to run up to the scouts for YNT.  You can;t sell me one thing and then pull out the D1 card.  I can see I was the only sold YNT and Pro pathway when it is obviously 100% all about college.  The sane people got mad at me for barking about all this.  I want us to win at the highest lever.  America first, not college game.


 Can we move passed what happened back in 2017! Its. been brought up on many threads now. We are glad to found a home for your daughter in ANY LEAGUE. If she's happy and have the right coach then you're doing the right thing. My personal experience at a showcase was as I was watching a game, the scouts come by and ask what's the soccer, what color are you guys wearing and here's my card. Thats it!! Now, overtime when you see the same faces at your games they talking more about how they think team x is going win because team 0 can't hold on to the ball. They're always polite and sit down next to all the other scouts that shows up and watch as much as they can. Some might share some crazy stories of parents just being parents but other than that, it's a simple job. Not sure scouts are looking for YNT or Pros either. All players will have different pathways to college or to play college soccer. Who's to say your way is right and my way is wrong? Sometimes pathways merge together with a successful outcome. Best of luck. You do realize I mentioned nothing about leagues either.


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> Can we move passed what happened back in 2017! Its. been brought up on many threads now. We are glad to found a home for your daughter in ANY LEAGUE. If she's happy and have the right coach then you're doing the right thing. My personal experience at a showcase was as I was watching a game, the scouts come by and ask what's the soccer, what color are you guys wearing and here's my card. Thats it!! Now, overtime when you see the same faces at your games they talking more about how they think team x is going win because team 0 can't hold on to the ball. They're always polite and sit down next to all the other scouts that shows up and watch as much as they can. Some might share some crazy stories of parents just being parents but other than that, it's a simple job. Not sure scouts are looking for YNT or Pros either. All players will have different pathways to college or to play college soccer. Who's to say your way is right and my way is wrong? Sometimes pathways merge together with a successful outcome. Best of luck. You do realize I mentioned nothing about leagues either.


Stop commenting on my post and I wont talk about the past and how these showcases went from 1 to 5.  I'm sick of showcases, ok!!!!!  Showcases are way overrated and no need for 5.  One, ok.  Let's talk about next season bro.  How many showcases is too many?  I want the showcase to have meaning, like a league game.


----------



## gotothebushes

Technician72 said:


> Definitely multiple components to the recruiting process, and some aspects of it are over hyped. In my experience as a team manager for multiple teams, and experience managing a team in ECNL, there are a lot of things that can be done and the posts by multiple contributors here in regards to their war stories seem to highlight an improvement that can be made overall in the recruiting process as it seems like the current process is to cover all the bases possible because of the lack of "one" specific way players get recruited:
> 
> Videos / Highlights
> Player Profile Pages / Links
> Social Media Promotion / Outreach
> E-Mails (Generic)
> E-Mails (Specific)
> Phone Calls
> In Person Conversations
> Team Profile / Pamphlets
> Club Coach Outreach
> Club Director Outreach
> Team Manager Outreach
> 
> I'm guilty of having been involved in all of those, some to a greater extent than others as @Keepers_Keeper and @Kicker4Life outlined and clarified the outreach from a team manager is generic and very much just a hand off of basic information the college coach can then do what they please with.
> 
> Both my kids have gotten "nibbles" and a few "bites" from college coaches, through the email process. Coaches have responded to their emails after catching their games and have given their observations / notes on strengths and opportunities for improvement. They've had a lot of luck in particular with the assistant coaches for academic favorite colleges they'd like to attend.
> 
> It's a lot of work, but the more ground you / player can cover in the process will cast a bigger net when trying to catch what you're looking for. My oldest is on a good trajectory and has some things lined up so I'm hoping the next couple of years will seal the deal, so to speak. The youngest is going to be a whirlwind for sure, as she doesn't have a plan and lives in the moment, which I appreciate and envy at times. She's higher caliber in terms of "GOD given Talent" and I expect a roller coaster for the next 4 years with her.


Your last daughter sounds like my younger daughter of 3. Kickingandscreaming can vouch for that! LOL! Good luck!


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> Stop commenting on my post and I wont talk about the past and how these showcases went from 1 to 5.  I'm sick of showcases, ok!!!!!  Showcases are way overrated and no need for 5.  One, ok.  Let's talk about next season bro.  How many showcases is too many?  I want the showcase to have meaning, like a league game.


 Do you need a hug again? Relax!!


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> Stop commenting on my post and I wont talk about the past and how these showcases went from 1 to 5.  I'm sick of showcases, ok!!!!!  Showcases are way overrated and no need for 5.  One, ok.  Let's talk about next season bro.  How many showcases is too many?  I want the showcase to have meaning, like a league game.


You know as parent you have a choice not to go to all showcases right?


----------



## Ellejustus

Technician72 said:


> Definitely very difficult to try and whack all those "moles" in the recruiting / scouting process.
> 
> *I may have missed the announcement of the "new way",* has there been a structured plan on recruitment / scouting put in place with the league alignments? I wasn't able to find anything specific.
> 
> Showcases can certainly be improved, I think the pairing system has been a plus and fair to make for competitive games that can be beneficial for the recruiting / scouting process.


The new way begins June 15th.  It means you guys dont have to get in the middle of our kids recruiting anymore.  My dd can meet and greet all she wants Tech.  Unlimited talks.  This is a big decision and with 80% not finishing what they started, I think it's wise to take your time. She doesn;t have to go to a showcase either, although I like the idea of one or two and without the TM having to hand papers out with my kids face and bio.  My kid has until her Sr year of signing day to decide.  Name one sport that has a service where the TM goes around and hands out papers.  Softball?  Volleyball?  Hoops?  Maybe I'm off here but this is the most crazy thing I saw besides some other things.....


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> Do you need a hug again? Relax!!


I'm so relaxed Bushy boy


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> You know as parent you have a choice not to go to all showcases right?


Hahahahahahaha.  Are you in NoCal?


----------



## supercell

Ellejustus said:


> Stop commenting on my post and I wont talk about the past and how these showcases went from 1 to 5.  I'm sick of showcases, ok!!!!!  Showcases are way overrated and no need for 5.  One, ok.  Let's talk about next season bro.  How many showcases is too many?  I want the showcase to have meaning, like a league game.


EJ, ECNL showcase games count in your conference standings. They are not throwaway games.


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## Ellejustus

supercell said:


> EJ, ECNL showcase games count in your conference standings. They are not throwaway games.


They didn;t this year and I hear they did count the year before spupercell.  Geek Kid is wrong too   Listen, I'm what you call a pure competitor.  Do you know what that means?


----------



## supercell

Ellejustus said:


> They didn;t this year and I hear they did count the year before spupercell.  Geek Kid is wrong too   Listen, I'm what you call a pure competitor.  Do you know what that means?


 lol, spupercell! I can tell you for certain, that showcase games counted in our ECNL standings. We're in a different conference though, but it would seem weird that different conferences would do the stats differently. 

I have no idea what the meaning is in half your posts, so no, I don't know what a pure competitor is.


----------



## Ellejustus

Sandypk said:


> Someone forgot to take his chill pills.  A bit manic and hyped up over nothing again.
> Come June 15th, coaches can block numbers from an overly persistent paranoid parent.
> The TM’s do not influence CC’s one bit.  They hand a piece of paper to the CC and walk away.  Once in a while
> they may say hello or answer a quick question to be courteous, but that’s it.  TMs for my dds teams have always been
> very professional.  Thank you to all my dds former TMs.


Hi Sandy, I will never ever call a coach, ever.  My dd is chilling bro until way into 2021 and early 2022.  Like I said before, the old TM job is over. June 15th is going to be nuts and my dd will not take part.  Everyone else can go for it.  To all the coaches in soccer:  I speak for myself, my dd is 100% her own person.  I am not Lavar and you will never talk to me.  Get to know my dd someday and see what you think.  I can say only one coach had a hard time with her Sandy.  Mainly because he yelled so loud and demanded perfection, that when he yelled louder and turned red in his face, she would laugh at him. It pissed him off.  It's 100% a protection in her and I get it but he didn;t.  Oh well, what can one do.


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> You know as parent you have a choice not to go to all showcases right?


Thanks for letting me know bro.  Based on some of the adults behavior on road trips, I would never, and I mean never, put my 14 year old on a plane to the East Caost with some of you TMs I've gotten to know.  TMs on here way more than I thought too.  Forget that bro.  I told one coach we can;t do all this and that and he put me through a guilt trip dude.  "We need your dd to play.  She helps make the team go." I told him to let someone else shine and make the team go at the showcase.  He comes back with, "you still have to pay all the dues and per diems." This guy stayed in a palace.  I don;t have no money for that life style Bushman and I wasn;t even there or my kid.  I know 98% of all of you have that kind of scratch laying around, I did not and still don't.  Woobie wouldn;t even share the true amount of his fun because he's embarrassed with the large amount.   Woobie, am I wrong about that?


----------



## Ellejustus

supercell said:


> I have no idea what the meaning is in half your posts, so no, I don't know what a pure competitor is.


Half of my posts have a message attached to them.  Listen and read the lyrics of the songs I put on here.  I know the truth and the truth in soccer will set you free if you follow the truth.

Pure Competition:  The meaning of this can only be done with a parable.
*A young and naive 14 year old white boy thought he was all that in hoops.  It wasn't until his HS varsity team played the Long Beach Jack Rabbits that reality hit.  He could see that his game had a lot of work to do if he were to compete against the best of the best.  So the young lad worked on his game for two years and finally got his chance to tryout for the #1 AAU club from South Central.  This white boy was invited to tryout.  He tried out and got cut on the first day but he gave it his all and even the players and coaches respected him for the effort.  *

The other example is called "pay to play competition."
*The young lad's father meets up with the club coach before tryouts over a few drinks.  After a few more drinks, the dad is now the owner of the club and all tryouts have been cancelled.  The young white 16 year old is now on the team and is on the starting five.*


----------



## Woobie06

Ellejustus said:


> Thanks for letting me know bro.  Based on some of the adults behavior on road trips, I would never, and I mean never, put my 14 year old on a plane to the East Caost with some of you TMs I've gotten to know.  TMs on here way more than I thought too.  Forget that bro.  I told one coach we can;t do all this and that and he put me through a guilt trip dude.  "We need your dd to play.  She helps make the team go." I told him to let someone else shine and make the team go at the showcase.  He comes back with, "you still have to pay all the dues and per diems." This guy stayed in a palace.  I don;t have no money for that life style Bushman and I wasn;t even there or my kid.  I know 98% of all of you have that kind of scratch laying around, I did not and still don't.  Woobie wouldn;t even share the true amount of his fun because he's embarrassed with the large amount.   Woobie, am I wrong about that?


Dude....you are killing me.  Travel costs what travel costs.  Every adult on here knows what it costs for a trip to San Diego, Silverlakes, OC, LA, Phx, or Vegas.  You can go on the cheap, more expensive, take your family, send your kid with a teammate, whatever works for your situation.  Some will spend more and some less.  You don't need me or anyone else to spell it out for you.  Some people travel a lot for work, some have points, it's a mixed bag.  Splitting tournament fees and coach travel is part of the deal and cost of being on a team.  Build a bridge and get over it.  Accept it and move on, or don't participate.  Your call.

Lastly, I am not even remotely embarrassed or anything resembling that by going to my kids games both home and away.  We prioritize being there, make choices that make it possible, and are fortunate we are able to do it.

I get you don't like the current model, have had some difficult situations, have dealt with people who are less than honest or self-serving, feel it is too expensive, don't want to travel, hate DA, etc.  You gotta get over it.  Learn to accept it.  Nobody on this board is out to get you.  Everybody wants your family to reach their goals.  There are some really smart people here that offer up good info, and yes some trolls, and nobody is plotting against you.  Your a good dude and want the best for your kid.  I 100% support that always.

In my opinion from what I have seen, Tm's should get a full ride for all the stuff they have to do and what they deal with.   Crazy what they do and put up with.


----------



## Ellejustus

Woobie says, "Dude....you are killing me."  "Travel costs what travel costs."   "Build a bridge and get over it."  "Accept it and move on, or don't participate."  "Your call."  *((yes, it's my call dude and I made my calls))*

"Lastly, I am not even remotely embarrassed or anything resembling that by going to my kids games both home and away.  We prioritize being there, make choices that make it possible, and are fortunate we are able to do it."  *((some of us can;t afford the $20K and i cant and wont send my kid with parents in club soccer.  it dont matter what league bro.  I saw it all))*

"I get you don't like the current model,"* (( that was old model and new model is here)) "*have had some difficult situations, have dealt with people who are less than honest or self-serving, feel it is too expensive, don't want to travel, hate DA, etc.  You gotta get over it." *((No I don't.  You dont need to comment on my posts either.  You need to get over it woobie.  That fun is over))* " Learn to accept it". *((no I wont learn to accept it))*
Nobody on this board is out to get you." *((BS!!!))*  Everybody wants your family to reach their goals. * ((this is not about our family.  it's only my dd goals that matter))*  "There are some really smart people here that offer up good info, and yes some trolls, and nobody is plotting against you."*((You should read my PMs dude))* "Your a good dude and want the best for your kid.  I 100% support that always." * ((I'm just a dad speaking up.  No one is good))*

"In my opinion from what I have seen, Tm's should get a full ride for all the stuff they have to do and what they deal with.   Crazy what they do and put up with." * ((I think 50% off without the promoting)) * How's this for a TM bro_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________-is 100% true and I will never share that sh*t on here.


----------



## Technician72

Woobie06 said:


> Dude....you are killing me.  Travel costs what travel costs.  Every adult on here knows what it costs for a trip to San Diego, Silverlakes, OC, LA, Phx, or Vegas.  You can go on the cheap, more expensive, take your family, send your kid with a teammate, whatever works for your situation.  Some will spend more and some less.  You don't need me or anyone else to spell it out for you.  Some people travel a lot for work, some have points, it's a mixed bag.  Splitting tournament fees and coach travel is part of the deal and cost of being on a team.  Build a bridge and get over it.  Accept it and move on, or don't participate.  Your call.
> 
> Lastly, I am not even remotely embarrassed or anything resembling that by going to my kids games both home and away.  We prioritize being there, make choices that make it possible, and are fortunate we are able to do it.
> 
> I get you don't like the current model, have had some difficult situations, have dealt with people who are less than honest or self-serving, feel it is too expensive, don't want to travel, hate DA, etc.  You gotta get over it.  Learn to accept it.  Nobody on this board is out to get you.  Everybody wants your family to reach their goals.  There are some really smart people here that offer up good info, and yes some trolls, and nobody is plotting against you.  Your a good dude and want the best for your kid.  I 100% support that always.
> 
> In my opinion from what I have seen, Tm's should get a full ride for all the stuff they have to do and what they deal with.   Crazy what they do and put up with.


Travel was definitely expensive the past couple of years, my wife and I didn't make any of the trips that required flying. We're probably like most folks and made some tough decisions and budgeted / fund-raised as best we could so our DDs could make those trips, and we're thankful for the multiple chaperones and the opportunity for our DDs to grow into young adults and be responsible on these trips as they'll be on their own in their world to some extent in a matter of no time.

Overall it was a fair amount of travel both within driving distance and via air, girls enjoyed the trips and memories made.


----------



## Woobie06

Ellejustus said:


> Woobie says, "Dude....you are killing me."  "Travel costs what travel costs."   "Build a bridge and get over it."  "Accept it and move on, or don't participate."  "Your call."  *((yes, it's my call dude and I made my calls))*
> 
> "Lastly, I am not even remotely embarrassed or anything resembling that by going to my kids games both home and away.  We prioritize being there, make choices that make it possible, and are fortunate we are able to do it."  *((some of us can;t afford the $20K and i cant and wont send my kid with parents in club soccer.  it dont matter what league bro.  I saw it all))*
> 
> "I get you don't like the current model,"* (( that was old model and new model is here)) "*have had some difficult situations, have dealt with people who are less than honest or self-serving, feel it is too expensive, don't want to travel, hate DA, etc.  You gotta get over it." *((No I don't.  You dont need to comment on my posts either.  You need to get over it woobie.  That fun is over))* " Learn to accept it". *((no I wont learn to accept it))*
> Nobody on this board is out to get you." *((BS!!!))*  Everybody wants your family to reach their goals. * ((this is not about our family.  it's only my dd goals that matter))*  "There are some really smart people here that offer up good info, and yes some trolls, and nobody is plotting against you."*((You should read my PMs dude))* "Your a good dude and want the best for your kid.  I 100% support that always." * ((I'm just a dad speaking up.  No one is good))*
> 
> "In my opinion from what I have seen, Tm's should get a full ride for all the stuff they have to do and what they deal with.   Crazy what they do and put up with." * ((I think 50% off without the promoting)) * How's this for a TM bro_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________-is 100% true and I will never share that sh*t on here.


Ok.  I don’t know what the lines are, can’t read them...You are 100% right.  Best of luck to you and your family.


----------



## Ellejustus

Woobie06 said:


> Ok.  I don’t know what the lines are, can’t read them...You are 100% right.  Best of luck to you and your family.


Thnaks bro.  Listen woobie, I'm sure we know each other.  I am very disappointed with soccer leagues and all the costs associated with.  I'm also triggered when dads like you say sh*t about, "get over it" "pick another league or just quit all together."  Or like Kicker said so many times before, "Sucker bought a Popsicle made of ketchup."  Or his life is better attitude.  Tech comes on here to share about how scary some assholes are in club soccer.  I would never put my kid on a plane with you guys.  That's why I'm here.  It's a mix bag of sh*t bro and I want it to stop as much as possible.  That is why that league was called the G D Assholes league.  My dd was killing it and parents like you say, "Too bad, welcome to pay to play."


----------



## Woobie06

Technician72 said:


> Travel was definitely expensive the past couple of years, my wife and I didn't make any of the trips that required flying. We're probably like most folks and made some tough decisions and budgeted / fund-raised as best we could so our DDs could make those trips, and we're thankful for the multiple chaperones and the opportunity for our DDs to grow into young adults and be responsible on these trips as they'll be on their own in their world to some extent in a matter of no time.
> 
> Overall it was a fair amount of travel both within driving distance and via air, girls enjoyed the trips and memories made.


I agree with you.  The experience for the kids is great.  Yes, lots of travel the last couple of years.  What you said is spot on.  Budgeting, making choices, and some tough decisions - 100%.   Chaperones....ugh....herding 16-18 kids is no easy feat.  That’s why TM’s should actually get paid


----------



## Ellejustus

Woobie06 said:


> I agree with you.  The experience for the kids is great.  Yes, lots of travel the last couple of years.  What you said is spot on.  Budgeting, making choices, and some tough decisions - 100%.   Chaperones....ugh....herding 16-18 kids is no easy feat.  That’s why TM’s should actually get paid


BS woobie.  How can one budget if they dont have much to budget with?  Check to check or out of work.  What does one do if the goat's parent is poor woobie?  TMs and Chaperones bossing 15 & 16 year old teenagers around with confidence is hard for some moms, let me tell you.  Woman are a trip and how gils deal with gossip is not like the guys. Some of these TMs are gossips and share sh*t about your kids whereabouts, what they say on social media, what there doing at school and if they sin, the whole team finds out.  Boyfriend?  Better not or some TMs will let the coach know.  Some of you guys are sick!!!!  I think I get all this now. This is not how the highest level of sports go.


----------



## Woobie06

Ellejustus said:


> Thnaks bro.  Listen woobie, I'm sure we know each other.  I am very disappointed with soccer leagues and all the costs associated with.  I'm also triggered when dads like you say sh*t about, "get over it" "pick another league or just quit all together."  Or like Kicker said so many times before, "Sucker bought a Popsicle made of ketchup."  Or his life is better attitude.  Tech comes on here to share about how scary some assholes are in club soccer.  I would never put my kid on a plane with you guys.  That's why I'm here.  It's a mix bag of sh*t bro and I want it to stop as much as possible.  That is why that league was called the G D Assholes league.  My dd was killing it and parents like you say, "Too bad, welcome to pay to play."


I don’t think we know each other, kids are different ages from what I can gather from the posts.  Dad’s like me, well ok, I’ll bite (it’s lock down so I have some time on my hands)...

1. What are Dad’s and Parents like me?

As for not putting your kid on a plane or letting them travel with another family, etc.  That is all very unique and personal to the family and everybody will make the best and right choice for themselves.

The reason I say “get over it” is because you have communicated your point really well. You have made your point clear in many threads, and every current forum member knows where you stand and future members will see from prior posts. That said, it IS the model in place. Because you don’t like it, it is not going to change. I say get over it or don’t participate because those are really your choices (1) Don’t participate, or (2) Participate.

I don’t like paying Federal Taxes, State Taxes, Sales Tax or any of it.   I don’t agree with all the politicians, everything that taxes are spent on...lots of waste...but to live in this country, have what we have, etc. it is a requirement of being here and participating in the country that you pay taxes.

If you want your daughter to participate in club soccer at the level suitable to her ability, you will pay fees, travel, etc., etc., etc.  You don’t have to like it, but if you want to participate that is part of the deal whether you like it or not.  Which is why I use the word “accept”.

I didn’t develop the model, I’m not saying it is right or that I like it or that I agree with it.  I’m saying our family accepts what it is and chooses to participate.


----------



## wc_baller

supercell said:


> EJ, ECNL showcase games count in your conference standings. They are not throwaway games.


ECNL showcase games do NOT count in the conference standings. The showcase games do count for the postseason seedings.


----------



## Ellejustus

Woobie06 said:


> I don’t think we know each other, kids are different ages from what I can gather from the posts.  Dad’s like me, well ok, I’ll bite (it’s lock down so I have some time on my hands)...
> 
> 1. What are Dad’s and Parents like me?
> 
> As for not putting your kid on a plane or letting them travel with another family, etc.  That is all very unique and personal to the family and everybody will make the best and right choice for themselves.
> 
> The reason I say “get over it” is because you have communicated your point really well. You have made your point clear in many threads, and every current forum member knows where you stand and future members will see from prior posts. That said, it IS the model in place. Because you don’t like it, it is not going to change. I say get over it or don’t participate because those are really your choices (1) Don’t participate, or (2) Participate.
> 
> I don’t like paying Federal Taxes, State Taxes, Sales Tax or any of it.   I don’t agree with all the politicians, everything that taxes are spent on...lots of waste...but to live in this country, have what we have, etc. it is a requirement of being here and participating in the country that you pay taxes.
> 
> If you want your daughter to participate in club soccer at the level suitable to her ability, you will pay fees, travel, etc., etc., etc.  You don’t have to like it, but if you want to participate that is part of the deal whether you like it or not.  Which is why I use the word “accept”.
> 
> I didn’t develop the model, I’m not saying it is right or that I like it or that I agree with it.  I’m saying our family accepts what it is and chooses to participate.


I would respect you more if you would answer my original question that you continue to dodge.  How much did the woobie family spend?  I need to know what style to go for next season.  I have accepted it and I have money today, unlike in 2017.  Again, ECNL is 100% all good in my book. They didnt try and stop me for taking my dd to the GDA and world class league.  However, when I wanted to leave the GDA, all I got was how bad that league is and it would ruin any chance my dd had at making the list and hs soccer is 100% horrible.  They then sold DPL the next day.  Craztysh*t.


----------



## Woobie06

Ellejustus said:


> BS woobie.  How can one budget if they dont have much to budget with?  Check to check or out of work.  What does one do if the goat's parent is poor woobie?  TMs and Chaperones bossing 15 & 16 year old teenagers around with confidence is hard for some moms, let me tell you.  Woman are a trip and how gils deal with gossip is not like the guys. Some of these TMs are gossips and share sh*t about your kids whereabouts, what they say on social media, what there doing at school and if they sin, the whole team finds out.  Boyfriend?  Better not or some TMs will let the coach know.  Some of you guys are sick!!!!  I think I get all this now. This is not how the highest level of sports go.


What’s with all the “you guys”???  Also, I’m starting to get really confused whether you are actually serious, mad, joking, or just trying to stir it up.  I can’t tell anymore...lock down is getting to me.  Good luck to you.

I will say one thing about budget...on my DD’s prior club/team, if there was a family/kid that had a need, the club/team figured out how to help them and make it work...lots of ways to do it and accomplish it.  Maybe that club was unique, I don’t know.


----------



## Woobie06

Ellejustus said:


> I would respect you more if you would answer my original question that you continue to dodge.  How much did the woobie family spend?  I need to know what style to go for next season.  I have accepted it and I have money today, unlike in 2017.  Again, ECNL is 100% all good in my book. They didnt try and stop me for taking my dd to the GDA and world class league.  However, when I wanted to leave the GDA, all I got was how bad that league is and it would ruin any chance my dd had at making the list and hs soccer is 100% horrible.  They then sold DPL the next day.  Craztysh*t.


Dude...stop it.  Look at last years schedule for your team and figure it out and build your budget.  It all depends on the trip and your situation...

Couple starter examples for you...

We go to San Diego and play Sat and Sun, we drive down, stay at our friends, and we buy groceries to BBQ or take them to dinner.  Not so bad....we see good friends and have a great time.

Last April showcase in CO for DA...$600 I think for DD to go plus some walking around money for snacks and stuff.  I flew out on points and stayed with my wife’s aunt and uncle.  Rental car and meals.  2 Games, snow...horrible and what a waste, but DD and her team had a blast.

You can figure this out.


----------



## Ellejustus

Woobie06 said:


> What’s with all the “you guys”???  Also, I’m starting to get really confused whether you are actually serious, mad, joking, or just trying to *stir it up*.  I can’t tell anymore...lock down is getting to me.  Good luck to you.
> 
> I will say one thing about budget...*on my DD’s prior club/team, if there was a family/kid that had a need, the club/team figured out how to help them and make it work..*.lots of ways to do it and accomplish it.  Maybe that club was unique, I don’t know.


Go back to July at toxic thread.  Sorry, but most poor families are very close to each other and will not just hand off their kid to rich folks.  I am not joking today.  I write with jokes so some of you dont attack me too hard and find ways to hurt me and my dd. I hated the old system bro that treated my dd with zero respect.  I know why too, because that other league that is no more was all about control and they couldn't control her or me.  I love ECNL and everything it stands for, for the highest lever player.  You're in the cross fire of the Real Situation of the war between a few clubs in socal, me ((not my dd so leave her out of this please)) and ECNL. They ((clubs not allowed in ECNL monopoly in the SW)) got a league called GDA and the nations fought.  The loser in this war would need to be totally destroyed, which I wanted because of what I witnessed by some of the adults behavior. Like I said before, I'm for everything that the 98% of you want today.  Listen to this song and lyrics.  They help me through all this.


----------



## Ellejustus

Woobie06 said:


> Dude...stop it.  Look at last years schedule for your team and figure it out and build your budget.  It all depends on the trip and your situation...
> 
> Couple starter examples for you...
> 
> We go to San Diego and play Sat and Sun, we drive down, stay at our friends, and we buy groceries to BBQ or take them to dinner.  Not so bad....we see good friends and have a great time.
> 
> Last April showcase in CO for DA...$600 I think for DD to go plus some walking around money for snacks and stuff.  I flew out on points and stayed with my wife’s aunt and uncle.  Rental car and meals.  2 Games, snow...horrible and what a waste, but DD and her team had a blast.
> 
> You can figure this out.


All the poor kids will be allowed to play soccer in the USA and try and be a part of old glory's WNT.  I'm super excited for all peoples in this country to get a sniff at a camp.  It will take some time, but I also believe a pro pathway league will be invented some day too, in my lifetime.  Here's great song about the poor coming in from the cold


----------



## gotothebushes

Woobie06 said:


> Dude....you are killing me.  Travel costs what travel costs.  Every adult on here knows what it costs for a trip to San Diego, Silverlakes, OC, LA, Phx, or Vegas.  You can go on the cheap, more expensive, take your family, send your kid with a teammate, whatever works for your situation.  Some will spend more and some less.  You don't need me or anyone else to spell it out for you.  Some people travel a lot for work, some have points, it's a mixed bag.  Splitting tournament fees and coach travel is part of the deal and cost of being on a team.  Build a bridge and get over it.  Accept it and move on, or don't participate.  Your call.
> 
> Lastly, I am not even remotely embarrassed or anything resembling that by going to my kids games both home and away.  We prioritize being there, make choices that make it possible, and are fortunate we are able to do it.
> 
> I get you don't like the current model, have had some difficult situations, have dealt with people who are less than honest or self-serving, feel it is too expensive, don't want to travel, hate DA, etc.  You gotta get over it.  Learn to accept it.  Nobody on this board is out to get you.  Everybody wants your family to reach their goals.  There are some really smart people here that offer up good info, and yes some trolls, and nobody is plotting against you.  Your a good dude and want the best for your kid.  I 100% support that always.
> 
> In my opinion from what I have seen, Tm's should get a full ride for all the stuff they have to do and what they deal with.   Crazy what they do and put up with.





Woobie06 said:


> Dude...stop it.  Look at last years schedule for your team and figure it out and build your budget.  It all depends on the trip and your situation...
> 
> Couple starter examples for you...
> 
> We go to San Diego and play Sat and Sun, we drive down, stay at our friends, and we buy groceries to BBQ or take them to dinner.  Not so bad....we see good friends and have a great time.
> 
> Last April showcase in CO for DA...$600 I think for DD to go plus some walking around money for snacks and stuff.  I flew out on points and stayed with my wife’s aunt and uncle.  Rental car and meals.  2 Games, snow...horrible and what a waste, but DD and her team had a blast.
> 
> You can figure this out.


Very well said Woobie06


----------



## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> The new way begins June 15th.  It means you guys dont have to get in the middle of our kids recruiting anymore.  My dd can meet and greet all she wants Tech.  Unlimited talks.  This is a big decision and with 80% not finishing what they started, I think it's wise to take your time. She doesn;t have to go to a showcase either, although I like the idea of one or two and without the TM having to hand papers out with my kids face and bio.  My kid has until her Sr year of signing day to decide.  Name one sport that has a service where the TM goes around and hands out papers.  Softball?  Volleyball?  Hoops?  Maybe I'm off here but this is the most crazy thing I saw besides some other things.....


You should ask the TM to remove your daughter’s pic and bio that gets handed out and instead replace it with “this girl’s dad makes her a huge red flag. Proceed at your own risk.”


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> You should ask the TM to remove your daughter’s pic and bio that gets handed out and instead replace it with “this girl’s dad makes her a huge red flag. Proceed at your own risk.”


At "End of the Day" ((EOTD)), mine your own bees wax brah or coach attorney from OC I think?  Or is it SD?  First off wise ass, I didn;t know what the pic was for the first year.  Secondly, it was our first showcase and I was kind of excited until all the players that already had deals signed played the first two games and started all of them.  My baby, who needed to be more mature, got to watch the first game of the first half from the bench.  She went in second half after the all star squad went up 5-0 and all coaches were gone.  The second game, coach pulled a fast one and told her she can sit and watch ((all because she said she wasn't sure if she wanted to go to college yet)).  She got an email saying she will get to start on Sunday and to make sure to email all the coaches.....lol!!!!   Anyway, she got to start on Sunday and no coaches were there.  Horrible experience.  I also talked to a few D1 coaches and they gave me the true scoop which I won;t share here.  To all college coaches, I'm here to speak out against BS people like this EOTL guy.  If you like how he is and acts on here, please, please do not contact my dd to play for your school.  I also promise you will never ever talk to me.  This is all about her and you will really like her and respect her, regardless if you see her in your program and U.  This EOTL father or coach has been really rude and insensitive to what has happen to the girls.  Many stories will need to be told because this guy has his hands in soccer somehow.  He thinks he knows everything to and is warning all of you not to recruit my dd because of me.  This is the same asshole that warned me before two years ago. Carry on brah and keep it up!!!!


----------



## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> At "End of the Day" ((EOTD)), mine your own bees wax brah or coach attorney from OC I think?  Or is it SD?  First off wise ass, I didn;t know what the pic was for the first year.  Secondly, it was our first showcase and I was kind of excited until all the players that already had deals signed played the first two games and started all of them.  My baby, who needed to be more mature, got to watch the first game of the first half from the bench.  She went in second half after the all star squad went up 5-0 and all coaches were gone.  The second game, coach pulled a fast one and told her she can sit and watch ((all because she said she wasn't sure if she wanted to go to college yet)).  She got an email saying she will get to start on Sunday and to make sure to email all the coaches.....lol!!!!   Anyway, she got to start on Sunday and no coaches were there.  Horrible experience.  I also talked to a few D1 coaches and they gave me the true scoop which I won;t share here.  To all college coaches, I'm here to speak out against BS people like this EOTL guy.  If you like how he is and acts on here, please, please do not contact my dd to play for your school.  I also promise you will never ever talk to me.  This is all about her and you will really like her and respect her, regardless if you see her in your program and U.  This EOTL father or coach has been really rude and insensitive to what has happen to the girls.  Many stories will need to be told because this guy has his hands in soccer somehow.  He thinks he knows everything to and is warning all of you not to recruit my dd because of me.  This is the same asshole that warned me before two years ago. Carry on brah and keep it up!!!!


No. If you are going to constantly blame others for your problems (aka not minding your own beeswax), then I won’t either.

From your own posts, it seems very likely your daughter only played the second half of a blowout and on Sunday (the game most college coaches miss to get home at a reasonable hour) because it would be irresponsible to waste valuable minutes on a kid at showcase whose father keeps saying she isn’t interested in college and plans to go straight pro. The only reason that kid should play at all is if her presence on the field might help a teammate get recruited - or nobody is watching. But judging from the 5-0 halftime score in the game she didn’t start, it seems like things were going just fine without her. Furthermore, coaches play specific kids when specific college coaches attend. If your coach doesn’t know that a college coach is coming to specifically watch your kid, then your kid is not a priority for playing time.

Brah, as you like to say, your lack of self-awareness can be painful. Like the TM who tried to pass out your kid’s info, I’m just trying to help you, or I was until it became clear that you just want to feel sorry for yourself. So I’m just helping you do that instead, highlighting for others what not to do and hopefully providing some comedic entertainment.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> No. If you are going to constantly blame others for your problems (aka not minding your own beeswax), then I won’t either.
> 
> From your own posts, it seems very likely your daughter only played the second half of a blowout and on Sunday (the game most college coaches miss to get home at a reasonable hour) because it would be irresponsible to waste valuable minutes on a kid at showcase whose father keeps saying she isn’t interested in college and plans to go straight pro. The only reason that kid should play at all is if her presence on the field might help a teammate get recruited - or nobody is watching. But judging from the 5-0 halftime score in the game she didn’t start, it seems like things were going just fine without her. Furthermore, coaches play specific kids when specific college coaches attend. If your coach doesn’t know that a college coach is coming to specifically watch your kid, then your kid is not a priority for playing time.
> 
> Brah, as you like to say, your lack of self-awareness can be painful. Like the TM who tried to pass out your kid’s info, I’m just trying to help you, or I was until it became clear that you just want to feel sorry for yourself. So I’m just helping you do that instead, highlighting for others what not to do and hopefully providing some comedic entertainment.


Buzz off asshole!!!  You are an asshole and the reason girls are hurting.  Yes, you sir!!!!


----------



## Technician72

Woobie06 said:


> I will say one thing about budget...on my DD’s prior club/team, if there was a family/kid that had a need, the club/team figured out how to help them and make it work...lots of ways to do it and accomplish it.  Maybe that club was unique, I don’t know.


This was my experience the last few years as well. From clubs scholarship / sponsorship / and opportunity to pay dues down through volunteer work, to parents budgeting extra $$$ to cover costs for players / families that needed it, it was great that both clubs and families could fill in a tiny gap in the pay to play system.


----------



## Woobie06

Technician72 said:


> This was my experience the last few years as well. From clubs scholarship / sponsorship / and opportunity to pay dues down through volunteer work, to parents budgeting extra $$$ to cover costs for players / families that needed it, it was great that both clubs and families could fill in a tiny gap in the pay to play system.


That’s great to hear.  It should be like that.  I like to think there are always ways to work things out if the participants are willing and open to being creative and finding a solution.


----------



## Ellejustus

Woobie06 said:


> That’s great to hear.  It should be like that.  I like to think there are always ways to work things out if the participants are willing and open to being creative and finding a solution.


I agree woobie.  The only problem is when you want to leave.......


----------



## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> Buzz off asshole!!!  You are an asshole and the reason girls are hurting.  Yes, you sir!!!!


Ha ha.  I am not the reason “girls are hurting.” Only one of us doesn’t whine when another kid gets playing time over theirs. Only one of us is always happy when their kid’s teammate starts instead of their kid because a college coach came to see their teammate. Only one of us always goes out of their way when their kid’s coach wants them to play in a showcase because it might help teammates get recruited.

A**hole, well yes, that might be justified on occasion. Which means that only one of us also lacks self-awareness too.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> Ha ha.  I am not the reason “girls are hurting.” *Only one of us doesn’t whine when another kid gets playing time over theirs.* Only one of us is always happy when their kid’s teammate starts instead of their kid because a college coach came to see their teammate. Only one of us always goes out of their way when their kid’s coach wants them to play in a showcase because it might help teammates get recruited.
> 
> A**hole, well yes, that might be justified on occasion. Which means that only one of us also lacks self-awareness too.


Hey coach, the asshole was the coach who lied to me and the kid. You don't ever pull an 04 up with 03s to sit them, right?  C'mon coach, that is stupid and not good for a little kid who wants to play every game at whatever level she fits. Great coaches we got in youth soccer, let me tell you.  Yes, I'm here whining about abuse of girls in many areas.  My dd was abused with lies and yells from adult men who said they work for the YNT staff and US Soccer and were licensed when they werent.   I asked USSF why they let coaches coach who were not licensed and who werent ready for the female player, but no one answered me. Now, their gone coach.  Liars and more lies.  Sorry everyone, but this asshole is causing me to go off today.


----------



## Woobie06

Ellejustus said:


> I agree woobie.  The only problem is when you want to leave.......


Well...I get that side of it too. You have to look at both sides and have to be fair and reasonable. In my opinion, when other teammates help contribute, fund raise, donate, etc. to help a family and make things work during the course of year to cover fees, there is an expectation (whether acknowledged or not, right or wrong) that there is a commitment for the year. My opinion, not speaking for others or Dad’s and Parents like me...which was not cool btw. 

There are always exceptions.  Most clubs don’t refund during the year.  I get both sides, wanting to leave if treated unfairly, and felling jilted when you help.  It’s a difficult spot to be in for sure.  That’s the rub.


----------



## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> Hey coach, the asshole was the coach who lied to me and the kid. You don't ever pull an 04 up with 03s to sit them, right?  C'mon coach, that is stupid and not good for a little kid who wants to play every game at whatever level she fits. Great coaches we got in youth soccer, let me tell you.  Yes, I'm here whining about abuse of girls in many areas.  My dd was abused with lies and yells from adult men who said they work for the YNT staff and US Soccer and were licensed when they werent.   I asked USSF why they let coaches coach who were not licensed and who werent ready for the female player, but no one answered me. Now, their gone coach.  Liars and more lies.  Sorry everyone, but this asshole is causing me to go off today.


Funny you should say that. I never talk about my kid(s), but I will make an exception and tell a story this one time only because you’re “special” and place outsized importance on anecdotal experiences.

(One of) my kid(s) was asked by their club coach to play up at a showcase because the olders were starting to get recruited and the coach considered mine to be helpful bench filler. Because I’m not actually an a**hole in real life, and because I also know most favors eventually get reciprocated if you surround yourself with the right people, I said “of course”. No whining. No expectations. Only gratitude that my kid would play with older kids they looked up to. 

Like all good TMs, and even before I knew it was a thing, the TM put my kid’s bio and photo on the team roster, which was handed out to the college coaches before games. My kid never started, barely played in one game, but had the good fortune to get subbed in early once because a teammate got hurt. That game happened to have more than 50 college coaches watching. How do you think it worked out that I wasn’t a selfish, narcissistic a**hole with unrealistic expectations?

You keep fighting a system in a way that comes off as detrimental even how you tell the stories. While many enjoyable things are inevitably happening during your kid’s youth soccer experience, you seem to be missing them solely because you have a negative perspective. I’ve said it to you before, but the best thing you can do is find one of the “queen maker” coaches who can help deliver the best opportunity for her, and then stay out of the way. The best club coaches are literally professionals, so let them do their job. Right now you are the client who doesn’t listen to their lawyer’s advice or the patient who doesn’t listen to their doctor. Don’t act like you know better than them. Don’t be the guy who keeps changing from good doctors and lawyers to bad ones because you don’t like hearing you have brain cancer or that 3 to 5 is the best you’re gonna get.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> Funny you should say that. I never talk about my kid(s), but I will make an exception and tell a story this one time only because you’re “special” and place outsized importance on anecdotal experiences.
> 
> (One of) my kid(s) was asked by their club coach to play up at a showcase because the olders were starting to get recruited and the coach considered mine to be helpful bench filler. Because I’m not actually an a**hole in real life, and because I also know most favors eventually get reciprocated if you surround yourself with the right people, I said “of course”. No whining. No expectations. Only gratitude that my kid would play with older kids they looked up to.
> 
> Like all good TMs, and even before I knew it was a thing, the TM put my kid’s bio and photo on the team roster, which was handed out to the college coaches before games. My kid never started, barely played in one game, but had the good fortune to get subbed in early once because a teammate got hurt. That game happened to have more than 50 college coaches watching. How do you think it worked out that I wasn’t a selfish, narcissistic a**hole with unrealistic expectations?
> 
> You keep fighting a system in a way that comes off as detrimental even how you tell the stories. While many enjoyable things are inevitably happening during your kid’s youth soccer experience, you seem to be missing them solely because you have a negative perspective. I’ve said it to you before, but the best thing you can do is find one of the “queen maker” coaches who can help deliver the best opportunity for her, and then stay out of the way. The best club coaches are literally professionals, so let them do their job. Right now you are the client who doesn’t listen to their lawyer’s advice or the patient who doesn’t listen to their doctor. Don’t act like you know better than them. Don’t be the guy who keeps changing from good doctors and lawyers to bad ones because you don’t like hearing you have brain cancer or that 3 to 5 is the best you’re gonna get.


OK coach dad.  Listen ass, the coaches lied to me, ok.  I dont need no favors for my kid when the head coach & doc lie to my face on multiple times. The point is this.  Coaches ((not all)) lie all the time and tell you one thing and do another.  When a team buys a poor player and their family, they think they own your ass.  They think they can behave wrong in front of 14 year olds.  So, like a good dad, I said stop lying.  They didnt, we left mid season too.  Nothing like leaving the team high and dry.  Yup, we did that on purpose to just because......Coach Elitist Dad award goes to you EOTL.  At least you have a dd playing.  Now I feel better about you.  Thanks for coming clean finally dad.  Coach as well?  TM?  How about a seat on the board at your club?


----------



## Ellejustus

@EOTL  Usually the kids that get the favors to play up, one of the parents have a seat on the board at clubs or are very big donors.  Which one are you?


----------



## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> @EOTL  Usually the kids that get the favors to play up, one of the parents have a seat on the board at clubs or are very big donors.  Which one are you?


Donations and service on the board of a non-profit are both highly admirable. I am glad you’re finally learning how things work in real life.

Brah, you quit mid-season on a club that was free? WTF? I think there’s a phrase for that, something about looking a gift horse in the mouth. Or maybe that you get what you pay for.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> Donations and service on the board of a non-profit are both highly admirable. I am glad you’re finally learning how things work in real life.
> 
> Brah, you quit mid-season on a club that was free? WTF? I think there’s a phrase for that, something about looking a gift horse in the mouth. Or maybe that you get what you pay for.


Brah, you almost got away with it. It will be real bad for you soon.


----------



## 46n2

We cringe when we read your post , please go away forever and stop hogging this website with your meaningless comments , from multiple user names, on every frick'en post on here.  Your a psychopath and every coaches worst nightmare.


----------



## Ellejustus

46n2 said:


> We cringe when we read your post , please go away forever and stop hogging this website with your meaningless comments , from multiple user names, on every frick'en post on here.  Your a psychopath and every coaches worst nightmare.


Who is WE?   Why do you cringe?  Only two coaches and one doc I know would say I'm a crazy ass father.  A few others have thanked me for speaking up on the hard issues facing our kids.  I have only one Avatar.  I dont use multiple users ((I tried it once and I couldnt do it)), so stop lying TM?  Lot's of TM spies on here everyone and those in high volunteer positions will report back to HQs what the pulse with the customer base.  If your doing naughty things, yes, you won't want me on the team or my dd.  That is true.


----------



## 46n2

Point proven , Thank you 
Remember we are watching you ....


----------



## Ellejustus

46n2 said:


> Point proven , Thank you
> Remember we are watching you ....


Oh, I know I'm being watched and so is my dd.  Thanks for warning me and please report back to her coaches.  Beware of the TM and the volunteers who snitch and spy on players.  It's really sick and disgusting but some people........


----------



## EOTL

Ellejustus said:


> Brah, you almost got away with it. It will be real bad for you soon.


I’m not a person you want to keep threatening.


----------



## Ellejustus

EOTL said:


> I’m not a person you want to keep threatening.


Man, all you guys take me wrong.  "You almost got away with it" only means I thought you were only a coach and had zero kids. "Real bad soon" is more about Karma and that's it sir.  Man, this is a scary place and I wish it wasn;t.  I better lay low because when people feel threatened they do things out of fear.  I think it's best we not talk anymore.  And please, don't take me that serious.


----------



## 46n2

Its a great place but *YOU* have destroyed any joy that anyone gets from this forum with your dysphoric unrealistic rants about me, me, me.......blah blah blah, * We are over it* , you post over 30 x's a day, sometimes more.

  Fact is with *YOUR,* not your DD,  personal journey in this wonderful sport we all love, *YOU* have and will have a very negative outcome ---Laws of cause and effect look it up....

 If you step aside, let your DD steer her path, it will be fine, you are the only one standing in her way. As you have already proven many times with your countless stories, dont you get it???? Jesus Christ enough is enough man!!! I beg you to not reply but you wont.  Honestly I bet your the parent that texts the coach during the games.......

Man becomes what he thinks about all day long. – Ralph Waldo Emerson


----------



## oh canada

EOTL said:


> but the best thing you can do is find one of the “queen maker” coaches who can help deliver the best opportunity for her,


you're showing your age...that's old school thought...cable vs. Netflix...MSFT vs. Google...truth is nowadays with social media, soccer camps, leagues with well attended showcases, improved smaller clubs, and the forthcoming resurgence of HS soccer, there are many more pathways to the next level.  The influx of international players in the men's and women's college game is a perfect example of coaches finding players beyond the "rusty copper pipes". 

The "queen maker" coaches no longer have the power and exclusivity that they had 10-15 years ago, though in their minds I'm sure they still think they do.  Especially if they are a pompous ass--and there are many--there is no longer a legitimate reason to figuratively curtsy or bow to these coaches.  Unfortunately, many risk averse parents still do, and their player suffers in the long run because of it.


----------



## EOTL

oh canada said:


> you're showing your age...that's old school thought...cable vs. Netflix...MSFT vs. Google...truth is nowadays with social media, soccer camps, leagues with well attended showcases, improved smaller clubs, and the forthcoming resurgence of HS soccer, there are many more pathways to the next level.  The influx of international players in the men's and women's college game is a perfect example of coaches finding players beyond the "rusty copper pipes".
> 
> The "queen maker" coaches no longer have the power and exclusivity that they had 10-15 years ago, though in their minds I'm sure they still think they do.  Especially if they are a pompous ass--and there are many--there is no longer a legitimate reason to figuratively curtsy or bow to these coaches.  Unfortunately, many risk averse parents still do, and their player suffers in the long run because of it.


I never said it was the only pathway, only that it is by far the best one, and if still is. Feel free to play at a lesser club for a coach that college coaches can’t rely upon to provide honest and accurate  assessments. Feel free to send a hundred emails and waste hundreds of hours creating social media accounts and videos. Fine if you want to cross your fingers that college coaches at the best programs will go to a HS game or watch a lower tier team with one player at a showcase, instead of 20 prospects in the Blues v. Slammers game on then next field.  There is a reason 50 coaches watch that game and two watch the other one. 

The problem with your way of thinking is that playing for an excellent coach who is respected and
trusted by college coaches is not bowing down to anyone. It is getting what you pay for.  It is the weird attitude that people just want to fight and do everything the hard way. LegalZoom and WebMD are also helpful ways for cheap bastards to gain information, but are also poor substitutes to get things done right. 

The reality is these coaches are more important now more than ever due to the compressed recruiting timeframes, and also due to the chaos of Covid-19. They have even more power than they ever have.  They’re making calls while kids can’t even film recent video to send, play in a showcase where they can be seen, or do anything to help your kid other than have her send emails that go straight into the electronic circular file. Now, more than ever, college coaches must rely on the club coaches they trust.


----------



## oh canada

EOTL said:


> I never said it was the only pathway, only that it is by far the best one, and if still is.


Not if your kid becomes a better player elsewhere.  In sport, connections can only get you so far.  At some point, talent carries you farther.  No longer are we in a recruitment age where good players go unnoticed.  Hailie Mace is Exhibit A.  

Good, skilled players do not need the McDonald's clubs and coaches now to get noticed for the next level.  Mediocre, dime-a-dozen, players do.


----------



## EOTL

oh canada said:


> Not if your kid becomes a better player elsewhere.  In sport, connections can only get you so far.  At some point, talent carries you farther.  No longer are we in a recruitment age where good players go unnoticed.  Hailie Mace is Exhibit A.
> 
> Good, skilled players do not need the McDonald's clubs and coaches now to get noticed for the next level.  Mediocre, dime-a-dozen, players do.


The fact that you’ve managed to point out one kid - who has been the subject of numerous articles about how incredibly lucky she was that UCLA made her an offer given she played for a small club - actually proves my point. So too does the fact that there are at least 14 kids at UCLA and Stanford alone who played at Blues, Surf and Slammers. 

C’mon you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing. You’re saying that just because there’s a one in million chance you might get struck by lightning, it must be a good idea.


----------



## oh canada

EOTL said:


> The fact that you’ve managed to point out one kid - who has been the subject of numerous articles about how incredibly lucky she was that UCLA made her an offer given she played for a small club - actually proves my point. So too does the fact that there are at least 14 kids at UCLA and Stanford alone who played at Blues, Surf and Slammers.
> 
> C’mon you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing. You’re saying that just because there’s a one in million chance you might get struck by lightning, it must be a good idea.


#okboomer


----------



## EOTL

oh canada said:


> #okboomer


Seriously? I take a witty dig at you with my lightning comment and the best you can do is repeat something your kid used against you but is already passé?


----------



## Soccer43

oh canada said:


> Not if your kid becomes a better player elsewhere.  In sport, connections can only get you so far.  At some point, talent carries you farther.  No longer are we in a recruitment age where good players go unnoticed.  Hailie Mace is Exhibit A.
> 
> Good, skilled players do not need the McDonald's clubs and coaches now to get noticed for the next level.  Mediocre, dime-a-dozen, players do.


Could not disagree with you more.  The connections of your coach and how they advocate for your player can make all the difference in the world.  That's like saying if you are an excellent player you will get called into the national team camps - doesn't always happen for a variety of reasons.


----------



## EOTL

Soccer43 said:


> Could not disagree with you more.  The connections of your coach and how they advocate for your player can make all the difference in the world.  That's like saying if you are an excellent player you will get called into the national team camps - doesn't always happen for a variety of reasons.


I have a theory why many of the people here are fighting this so hard. My guess is they are strong proponents of the concept of American individualism without realizing it. They’re big into what they consider self-reliance, they believe the interests and actions of the individual are what leads to greatness and, most importantly, they vigorously oppose what they consider to be external interference on their own interests by outsiders, especially society or institutions (in this case the soccer establishment). The idea that a pathetic youth soccer coach might have a significant impact on their kid’s future makes their skin crawl.

Let’s do a test. If you’re one of those people who thinks I’m full of s**t about the recruitment process, I’m going to guess some things about you. You probably believe in small government, and Obamacare and socialism really make you mad, as does the idea of providing “free handouts”. You’ve been vocally opposed to welfare benefits because they only encourage laziness and the inevitable destruction of American society, but strangely you have not connected that moral view to the additional money the government is currently pumping into unemployment and forgivable small business loans. Your family is at least two generations removed from immigrating here, and probably more than that. You are almost certainly mostly or entirely white. You are Christian, but probably not Catholic. 

Again, this is just a theory, but I’d really appreciate it if some of you would chime in on this.


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## MacDre

EOTL said:


> I have a theory why many of the people here are fighting this so hard. My guess is they are strong proponents of the concept of American individualism without realizing it. They’re big into what they consider self-reliance, they believe the interests and actions of the individual are what leads to greatness and, most importantly, they vigorously oppose what they consider to be external interference on their own interests by outsiders, especially society or institutions (in this case the soccer establishment). The idea that a pathetic youth soccer coach might have a significant impact on their kid’s future makes their skin crawl.
> 
> Let’s do a test. If you’re one of those people who thinks I’m full of s**t about the recruitment process, I’m going to guess some things about you. You probably believe in small government, and Obamacare and socialism really make you mad, as does the idea of providing “free handouts”. You’ve been vocally opposed to welfare benefits because they only encourage laziness and the inevitable destruction of American society, but strangely you have not connected that moral view to the additional money the government is currently pumping into unemployment and forgivable small business loans. Your family is at least two generations removed from immigrating here, and probably more than that. You are almost certainly mostly or entirely white. You are Christian, but probably not Catholic.
> 
> Again, this is just a theory, but I’d really appreciate it if some of you would chime in on this.


I don’t fit the description.  If your kid is good, why do you need a “middle man coach?”  I don’t think my kid would have a problem making the UCLA or Stanford teams and starting freshman year without playing club.

I think the reason you see tons of folks from the same mega clubs is because you have a bunch of weak ass sheeple involved with club soccer.  For me, it almost seems that coaches are magnetically attracted to kids from different environments.  Many college coaches that I have interacted with were clear that most YNT players were only B/C recruits and are spoiled brats that have a meltdown when mommy and daddy can’t buy their playing time anymore.

So, I think there are viable alternative routes to college soccer but the college soccer ranks are currently being filled by many young adults that have sheeple parents.


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## dad4

EOTL said:


> I have a theory why many of the people here are fighting this so hard. My guess is they are strong proponents of the concept of American individualism without realizing it. They’re big into what they consider self-reliance, they believe the interests and actions of the individual are what leads to greatness and, most importantly, they vigorously oppose what they consider to be external interference on their own interests by outsiders, especially society or institutions (in this case the soccer establishment). The idea that a pathetic youth soccer coach might have a significant impact on their kid’s future makes their skin crawl.
> 
> Let’s do a test. If you’re one of those people who thinks I’m full of s**t about the recruitment process, I’m going to guess some things about you. You probably believe in small government, and Obamacare and socialism really make you mad, as does the idea of providing “free handouts”. You’ve been vocally opposed to welfare benefits because they only encourage laziness and the inevitable destruction of American society, but strangely you have not connected that moral view to the additional money the government is currently pumping into unemployment and forgivable small business loans. Your family is at least two generations removed from immigrating here, and probably more than that. You are almost certainly mostly or entirely white. You are Christian, but probably not Catholic.
> 
> Again, this is just a theory, but I’d really appreciate it if some of you would chime in on this.


Sure. I will chime in.

You are, as you said, full of shit on recruitment.  14 kids in four years at UCLA and Stanford from those 3 clubs?  Ok.  Now how many knee surgeries and repeat concussions in the same period from those same three clubs?

<crickets>


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## oh canada

EOTL said:


> Seriously? I take a witty dig at you with my lightning comment and the best you can do is repeat something your kid used against you but is already passé?


Nah, just bored by your predictable, stubborn, and often wrong drivel.  

Add the US women's lawsuit to your pile of ignorance.  Losing on summary judgment is the judge saying, "there's no way in hell you ladies could win at trial so I'm not even gonna let it go there."  @MWN was all over that, credit to him/her.  No settlement necessary.

You might be able to copy and paste the NY Times logo as your avatar, but that doesn't mean your opinions and writing ability rise to that level.  National Enquirer's logo might be a better fit, give it a try.


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## EOTL

dad4 said:


> Sure. I will chime in.
> 
> You are, as you said, full of shit on recruitment.  14 kids in four years at UCLA and Stanford from those 3 clubs?  Ok.  Now how many knee surgeries and repeat concussions in the same period from those same three clubs?
> 
> <crickets>


So I’m 1 for 1 so far is what you’re saying?


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## dad4

EOTL said:


> So I’m 1 for 1 so far is what you’re saying?


More like 1 for 5.  Not zero, though.

I am saying it is misleading to talk only about the best cases and ignore the worst.  

If you think it is useful data to know how many kids got D1 scholarships to UCLA, then it is also useful data to know how many kids got ACL tears or repeat concussions.

The sad thing is that the injury number is higher than the scholarship number.   And you know it.  But you still sell the scholarship story.


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## supercell

It seems to me that the recruiting landscape is so varied that there are situations which are dominated by club coach/college coach relationships at one end, and also situations that are entirely player/college coach dominated at the other end, with a ton of variation in between.  I suspect that as a gross generalization, college scouts are generally a lazy bunch, and they tend to gravitate towards recruiting scenarios that result in the least amount of work for the quality of product their program requires. For some, this means leaning on their club connections, and for others, it may mean recruiting directly from id camps. YMMV


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## EOTL

MacDre said:


> I don’t fit the description.  If your kid is good, why do you need a “middle man coach?”  I don’t think my kid would have a problem making the UCLA or Stanford teams and starting freshman year without playing club.
> 
> I think the reason you see tons of folks from the same mega clubs is because you have a bunch of weak ass sheeple involved with club soccer.  For me, it almost seems that coaches are magnetically attracted to kids from different environments.  Many college coaches that I have interacted with were clear that most YNT players were only B/C recruits and are spoiled brats that have a meltdown when mommy and daddy can’t buy their playing time anymore.
> 
> So, I think there are viable alternative routes to college soccer but the college soccer ranks are currently being filled by many young adults that have sheeple parents.


You can be so mean sometimes.


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## MacDre

EOTL said:


> You can be so mean sometimes.


I’m honestly not trying to be mean.  I’m just sharing what the coaches told me.  I have no experience with club soccer or college soccer.  I leave room for the possibility that those college coaches could’ve misled me.  But, my interaction with college coaches led me to believe that the primary benefit of college soccer was giving spoiled brats that have never been told no before a reality check and helping them acclimate into the real world.

I was surprised when I heard it too.


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## EOTL

MacDre said:


> I’m honestly not trying to be mean.  I’m just sharing what the coaches told me.  I have no experience with club soccer or college soccer.  I leave room for the possibility that those college coaches could’ve misled me.  But, my interaction with college coaches led me to believe that the primary benefit of college soccer was giving spoiled brats that have never been told no before a reality check and helping them acclimate into the real world.
> 
> I was surprised when I heard it too.


It was a joke. I agree that reality checks are an important part of the college experience.


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## Speed

I wish that there were subtitles under each thread: one for junk and the other for real information. There is so much good information in these threads you just have to have the time and the patience to read through all the BS/fighting to find it.


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## EOTL

Speed said:


> I wish that there were subtitles under each thread: one for junk and the other for real information. There is so much good information in these threads you just have to have the time and the patience to read through all the BS/fighting to find it.


Just block me and @Ellejustus. Probably @Simisoccerfan too, but only because he’s almost always wrong.


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