# Reality Check



## Lulu (Oct 10, 2017)

So I just wanted to get some feedback to see if I am justified in my reaction to a particular situation or am I just being one of “those overly competitive” parents....

So here is the situation, my DD plays on a U17 Tier 1 team for a small local club.  At the start of this season, we lost a lot of players due to the fact they just lost interest and wanted to do other things but we were able to maintain our core group of girls and added three more players to make a very good solid team. 

The problem comes when our team was forced by the club to take in players from a lower/younger tier team who disbanded, instead of just letting the players find their own way, the club stuck them on our team.  They aren’t at the level of play as the core players.  They are basically coming off the bench to sub but the problem is when they come in you can automatically see the dramatic drop in play.  Most of the core parents feel that they should get minimal playing time, if any since they can’t play at the same intensity/level as the core players but the Coach tends to give them way too much time on the pitch because he believes he could still develop these players.  I just don’t think it’s fair to the core team because they have to work twice as hard when these subs come in.  That’s not what my DD signed-up for but by the time we found out the team was stuck with these players it was too late to find another club/team.

I feel if they are not up to par then they shouldn’t play until they match the level or at least show a desire to play at the level of the core team.  They can train and develop at practice with the team but unless they show a major improvement, they shouldn’t get any time on the pitch.  These parents knew their player was playing up at least 3 tiers above her skill level yet they and the player aren’t doing anything else to improve their game, they’re just happy they're on the team but all the while killing the core team's morale. This isn’t AYSO, it’s club.

So am I being unreasonable or is there some validity to my rant....


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## shortBUTslow (Oct 10, 2017)

My answer is unlikely to be popular, but team performance is almost irrelevant at that age group.  (My DD is also U17.)

The team's performance only matters to the extent it helps or hinders your DD from getting exposure for playing in college.  Tier 1 is probably not enough by itself, since all the competition levels in all leagues are watered down very badly.  Ideally her team will be playing in Surf, Silverlakes, Players Showcase, etc. where she can try to get some dialogue going with some coaches, and can be seen and 'recruited'.

If she has no interest in playing in college, then I am not sure why you should care about any of it.  I mean, competition in itself is awesome, and it is always more enjoyable to watch a win than a loss, but if your DD is U17 and not planning to play in college, then... local team, local practice fields, playing with friends, etc. - would seem to compensate for perhaps not fielding the best squad.  

So.. my 2 cents.  If she wants to play in college, she may have to move teams to get the exposure she needs (if she is not getting it now).  Harsh to the club and her teammates, but if there is ever a time to be totally selfish - it is now. Time is just about up.


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## coachrefparent (Oct 10, 2017)

Plenty of validity. How many "players" on the team?


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## vanbasten (Oct 10, 2017)

How many subs does this team have? If all of the weaker players are subs it could have been a situation where the coach needed numbers. 

I can't speak for girls, but I know U17 boys are playing 90 minute games, there are times when I had injuries and low numbers and I would have signed a crippled homeless kid with a pulse so I could give one of my wingers a break on a 90+ degree day. Another thing to note is that (at least for older boys) once a player is subbed out in the first half, they may not re-enter until the second half. So those good players who are getting pulled off aren't allowed to re-enter. Not sure if this is a rule for girls. 

But, if you have 22 on the roster and everyone is showing up to every game. Then yes, the question becomes how competitive do you want to be - and why are you signing dead weight? The coach (hopefully) isn't an idiot and I think it's fair to ask him what his view and goals are to ensure they match what your player's goals are. 
Everyone's catchphrase is "development" but we don't play because development is fun, we play because winning and competing is fun. At U17, we should be sufficiently developed at the higher tiers to put our best foot forward to win games. 

Though, it very well may not have been your coach's call to sign these players as the DOC probably nudged him to ensure they stayed in the club. 

Also, I did read somewhere that SCDSL mandates 50% playing time for players? If this is true it's not enforced but I know for a fact that I have read it somewhere. So maybe your coach is trying in good faith to adhere to this? 

I try to be fairly up front with parents of weaker players who are trying to play up on higher level teams - you can either play 5% of the garbage minutes for a flight 1 team, or play 95% of the game in flight 3. When expectations are set in advance people get less pissed on the back end.


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## smellycleats (Oct 10, 2017)

vanbasten said:


> How many subs does this team have? If all of the weaker players are subs it could have been a situation where the coach needed numbers.
> 
> I can't speak for girls, but I know U17 boys are playing 90 minute games, there are times when I had injuries and low numbers and I would have signed a crippled homeless kid with a pulse so I could give one of my wingers a break on a 90+ degree day. Another thing to note is that (at least for older boys) once a player is subbed out in the first half, they may not re-enter until the second half. So those good players who are getting pulled off aren't allowed to re-enter. Not sure if this is a rule for girls.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this last paragraph. I couldn't agree more.


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## Lulu (Oct 10, 2017)

There are 17 on the team and there are 4 below average sub/players. The rules that apply to the boys also apply to the girls.  The core team would rather play the whole 90 mins. than let one of the subs play.  The thought is that the core players play better even tired than those subs coming off the bench. I understand the politics of club soccer, so the coach had his hands tied but we, as parents, are frustrated since this isn't what we signed up/paid for. But like I said, it was late in the game when we were told that these players were going to be on our roster.

What's worse, it that my DD wants to play in college and she had a coach come to a game and we had all four subs in and got slaughtered because they turned over the ball every single time they touched it or they just got flat out beat battling for the ball then wouldn't get out of the way for one of the other players to get in to try and salvage the play.  Needless to say, that coach hasn't call back... 

It's sad because you can definitely see when these subs come in that the core players try to avoid passing the ball to them which makes it even more difficult for them to play.  Just recently, the core team has vocalized their feelings about the subs to the Coach and now he only subs each of them for about 5-10 mins each but it is kind of late now since season is almost over.

All I am saying is that it is so frustrating to watch...


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## coachrefparent (Oct 10, 2017)

So a college coach comes, and you complain that your coach puts all 4 "bad players" in at once, and the team sucks because they won't play to these players? Why would your coach sabotage the team and put all 4 in at once? I call B.S. Every coach I know works hard to mix the lesser players in.  According to you they are 4 of the 6 subs, and he coach puts them all in at once?

That being said, how did the team and your girl do when the 4 flunkies were out?

Also, the bane of every team are the "top" players that won't play to the perceived "lesser players" which exist on every team. A huge sign of poor character. Maybe this is what the college coach saw. Frustrating indeed.


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## Lulu (Oct 11, 2017)

It's not BS, as someone mentioned above it was a hot day 90+ degrees and the coach subbed them one by one and eventually all of them were in the game at once. The team does well when there are no subs since they played together for a while, they can anticipate what each other will do.  The style they play is mostly possession, so making clean passes and getting to them is very imperative but then again that's in any game.

In regards to the "top" players not playing to the "lesser players" (talking about our team), maybe is it poor character but if the top player passes 5 direct balls and that lesser player misses *every single one* because they can't get to it (and this literally happens), after a while the top player gets frustrated so what are they supposed to do especially if they want to win?? 

I'm old school, there are winners and losers but the belief now is that everyone should be a winner...this is competitive soccer! If they want to just play to have fun and get exercise, play AYSO.  I'm not paying $3000+ to try to develop players at this age.

I'm just venting that these players shouldn't be playing at this level, they are Tier 2/3 level and clubs shouldn't "force" any coach to take on players that don't belong at this level.


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## espola (Oct 11, 2017)

Lulu said:


> It's not BS, as someone mentioned above it was a hot day 90+ degrees and the coach subbed them one by one and eventually all of them were in the game at once. The team does well when there are no subs since they played together for a while, they can anticipate what each other will do.  The style they play is mostly possession, so making clean passes and getting to them is very imperative but then again that's in any game.
> 
> In regards to the "top" players not playing to the "lesser players" (talking about our team), maybe is it poor character but if the top player passes 5 direct balls and that lesser player misses *every single one* because they can't get to it (and this literally happens), after a while the top player gets frustrated so what are they supposed to do especially if they want to win??
> 
> ...


On every team my kids played on, in almost every game, there was one teammate who seemed to be playing for the other side.  The trick was to keep the ball away from him.


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## Eagle33 (Oct 11, 2017)

Lulu said:


> It's not BS, as someone mentioned above it was a hot day 90+ degrees and the coach subbed them one by one and eventually all of them were in the game at once. The team does well when there are no subs since they played together for a while, they can anticipate what each other will do.  The style they play is mostly possession, so making clean passes and getting to them is very imperative but then again that's in any game.
> 
> In regards to the "top" players not playing to the "lesser players" (talking about our team), maybe is it poor character but if the top player passes 5 direct balls and that lesser player misses *every single one* because they can't get to it (and this literally happens), after a while the top player gets frustrated so what are they supposed to do especially if they want to win??
> 
> ...


I have to tell you a little secret of club soccer - it's a business. It has nothing to do with development of your DD. It has everything to do with getting you to pay for the experience. Now if your experience is not good, then take your DD along with your check book and leave. It's THAT simple.
Now, since club soccer is a business, clubs CAN and WILL force coaches to take on players they don't want so a team can make a budget, and so your coach can actually get paid.


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## coachrefparent (Oct 11, 2017)

Lulu said:


> It's not BS, as someone mentioned above it was a hot day 90+ degrees and the coach subbed them one by one and eventually all of them were in the game at once. The team does well when there are no subs since they played together for a while, they can anticipate what each other will do.  The style they play is mostly possession, so making clean passes and getting to them is very imperative but then again that's in any game.
> 
> In regards to the "top" players not playing to the "lesser players" (talking about our team), maybe is it poor character but if the top player passes 5 direct balls and that lesser player misses *every single one* because they can't get to it (and this literally happens), after a while the top player gets frustrated so what are they supposed to do especially if they want to win??
> 
> ...


Sounds like you need a new coach and club.


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## 46n2 (Oct 11, 2017)

The question of all question is why do coaches play under developed players ......especially on a established team(Im assuming this, I have no idea how long your DD team has been together).

Your question isnt a bad one, honestly we all at one time or another have had a few kids that were definitely not "Starting team material" but that's what the bench is for , realistically having a strong bench is a major plus so I feel your pain if half the bench isn't even that.

Id talk to the coach, don't throw a tantrum, but speak your mind.....god knows I have!

Right now I have a player that just doesn't have the same Soccer IQ as the rest of the team, and were definitely still playing him , hoping that more and more playing time can snap him into level play.  If it doesn't then end of season Im sure the kid may or may not be on the team.  Me personally , Id go down a notch and play Flight 2 if my kid wasnt getting playtime, theres nothing better than playing time!!!

*Heres the Hard truth*-If your assuming that your DD is *not* going to be noticed because of some sub par DD's on your team , your mistaken.   Just throwing that out there.......not casting stones.

Talk to your coach, voice your opinion, band up with other parents if need be and talk , thats all. Trust me , he feels the same way as you do.  Also keep a eye out for replacements and give your suggestions to coach.

Your question is valid, Good Luck !


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## Lulu (Oct 11, 2017)

I, as a parent, try to be realistic about my DD and know she's not DA/ENCL material but she is a solid player (who wants to play in college), so hence she plays on a Tier 1 team knowing she will get plenty of playing time whereas DA/ENCL she may not.  She just wants to play!!  

Whereas some of these player's parents are sometimes jaded as to what level their kid should play.  Any sport is about playing time, so why put your kid through mental torture by having them play at a level where clearly they shouldn't be and not play, unless that kid has the determination and drive to at least step up to the plate and want to be at that level.  Then yes, let the kid play because you can see there is desire and improvement but that is not the case for our subs...they sometimes don't even show up to practice and we have 3 practices per week.

It's not only the coach/club fault but the parents who are blinded at their kid's true ability.  But the core team is looking to most likely move after the season and find a new coach/club.


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## 46n2 (Oct 11, 2017)

If you have kids not showing up to practice , and the coach still plays them , then that's a separate issue .  
Play your season , voice your opinion and remember you always have the option to move on.  Tell your coach exactly that-- The grass is not always greener on the other side, might be easier to have your coach pick up three new kids that *try out *for the team and make it versus leaving and disbanding the team.  Unfortunately you had this situation happen to you DD , I doubt it will happen two years in a row.....or atleast we hope not!  Parent on the other hand are blind, pay not attention to them, the politics, etc.....just enjoy a amazing game with your amazing daughter!!!!!


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## coachrefparent (Oct 11, 2017)

46n2 said:


> If you have kids not showing up to practice , and the coach still plays them , then that's a separate issue .
> Play your season , voice your opinion and remember you always have the option to move on.  Tell your coach exactly that-- The grass is not always greener on the other side, might be easier to have your coach pick up three new kids that *try out *for the team and make it versus leaving and disbanding the team.  Unfortunately you had this situation happen to you DD , I doubt it will happen two years in a row.....or atleast we hope not!  Parent on the other hand are blind, pay not attention to them, the politics, etc.....just enjoy a amazing game with your amazing daughter!!!!!


*IF* the coach puts *all 4*  of the players in at a time that are far inferior, so bad that they miss 5 passes in a row, there is something wrong with the coach. *IF* these players don't come to practice, even worse. But I'm still skeptical.


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## Lvdepech (Oct 12, 2017)

there are times when I had injuries and low numbers and Iwould have signed a crippledhomeless kid with a pulse so Icould give one of my wingers abreak on a 90+ degree day.

Awesome


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## Lulu (Oct 12, 2017)

coachrefparent said:


> *IF* the coach puts *all 4*  of the players in at a time that are far inferior, so bad that they miss 5 passes in a row, there is something wrong with the coach. *IF* these players don't come to practice, even worse. But I'm still skeptical.


You can be skeptical and call BS but it happened, why would I rant about it if it didn't.  You don't know the coach, he is a very nice guy and he *really believes *in developing the player, he tells the core to be positive/encourage the "inferior" players, hence why he puts these players on the pitch (and yes, at some point all at the same time) because he is trying to push them to get better to improve their game.  In regards to not showing up to practice, he is not a stickler on that and doesn't reprimand any of the players in any way. Hence, again the rant...

The captain, and along with some of the parents, did finally have a heart to heart with the coach regarding these players, so he said he will try to honor her/our request of giving less time to them and not play them all at once.


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## Gokicksomegrass (Oct 13, 2017)

A friend's team was supposed to be capped at 16 players, in order everyone gets to play and to develop, so promised before tryouts.
After tryouts and some tourneys, 4 additional girls were added to roster for about 20+, plus some B team players here and there, coming up and
down. If my friend knew that this would have happened, he would have left and his dd would have gone to another team, but a bit late.
Problem wasn't inferior players, but rather all of the girls were very good. The coach encouraged and announced a gladiatorial atmosphere
where you had to fight for minutes and some girls would never see the field. New players next tryouts will replace some of the girls.
The girls did try harder and some did become "better", but at a heavy cost into three groups: starters, subs, and practice players. 
Passive/aggressive hostility among players and parents, but not towards the coach or DOC and staff who implemented this without any
warning. Disjoined and selfish playing to get noticed during practice and games. Girls and parents with one foot out the door, focusing
on leaving this toxic environment. No more team events or get togethers. This is what "winning" looks like. 

Shocking.. no, not really shocking, but a bitter reality of top team at a big club with big money and big bets riding on success.
Really, I believe the OP and his/her rant. There are good coaches who want to develop kids and have a good time, but there
are parents who beat them down to submission to benefits themselves, rather than the team. 
Perhaps, the other girls left the team, not because they lost interest, but rather to get away from the core parents, like the OP.


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