# Santiago vs Harvard-Westlake D1 High school semi-final Ref issue



## soccer dude (May 22, 2021)

I was a parent (and a previous Ref by the way) on the Santiago sideline today and the Ref ejected our entire sideline today in the 68th minute for no good reason.  As a ref myself I was appalled by what the Ref did.  Let me explain.

1.  There was a questionable PK called in 2nd half which gave HW a 3-1 lead.  It was a tight call at best and AR called for a goal kick in conflict of his decision.  But, hey, not going to argue the call.  Let's move on.
2.  After the PK, the coaches yelled a few things at the Ref (as most coaches do).  He came over and gave a yellow card.  I was ok with this based on what I saw.
3.  A few parents yelled a few things in support of the coach.  Nothing too serious.
4.  As Ref was walking toward the center of the field post-yellow card, he immediately turned around, walked back to the coach and signaled for the ejection of over 200 parents and family.  This is where I say boooo.

I was on the 50 yard line and heard nothing derogatory.  Ref said that a parent yelled something about being gay but neither I nor any parent said anything close to this.  The coach confirmed this with the nearest AR who sided with us.

The issue I have is that the Ref NEVER consulted with his ARs to discuss this and never asked the closest AR if he heard anything derogatory.  Furthermore, we were never warned, just thrown out.  For all you Refs out there please help me understand this.  I have never seen this before in many years of watching, coaching and ref'ing.  As a ref I have warned coaches and parents on verbal abuse and have ALWAYS given warnings before ejecting. 
I'm attaching what we saw today.  Note how the ref only talks to parents and field marshals but never to the ARs who could add important info the discussion.  I'm not big on throwing refs under the bus but this guy ruined the day of our entire sideline and should not be centering high school games anymore.

Lastly, HW was the better team today and deserved the win so this has nothing to do with losing.


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## soccer dude (May 22, 2021)

Another image


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## Grace T. (May 23, 2021)

soccer dude said:


> I was a parent (and a previous Ref by the way) on the Santiago sideline today and the Ref ejected our entire sideline today in the 68th minute for no good reason.  As a ref myself I was appalled by what the Ref did.  Let me explain.
> 
> 1.  There was a questionable PK called in 2nd half which gave HW a 3-1 lead.  It was a tight call at best and AR called for a goal kick in conflict of his decision.  But, hey, not going to argue the call.  Let's move on.
> 2.  After the PK, the coaches yelled a few things at the Ref (as most coaches do).  He came over and gave a yellow card.  I was ok with this based on what I saw.
> ...


Only 2 things I can think of. If there is a racial or homophobic slur there is a no tolerance policy in high school sports.  If he did hear that and the offending party was not identified by coaches or the fans turning the person over that would be one reason.  You’d think though in this case they’d check with ars to see who it was

Other questions is how much Is “a few” and was the rest of the game heated (2 coaches don’t typically get yellows out of the blue....had they been into it before and what exactly did they say?).  If the ref though he was losing control of the situation he’d take this extraordinary step since keeping control of the game is paramount to prevent violence. Hard to tell without more info.


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## Carlsbad7 (May 23, 2021)

I bet the parents wont yell at the ref next game.

Also I highly doubt you were a ref. If you were youd back the call and let it be. Refs manage difficult players, coaches, parents, and teams all at the same time.


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## espola (May 23, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I bet the parents wont yell at the ref next game.
> 
> Also I highly doubt you were a ref. If you were youd back the call and let it be. Refs manage difficult players, coaches, parents, and teams all at the same time.


The thin blue (or yellow or green or red, maybe, today) line?


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## soccer dude (May 23, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I bet the parents wont yell at the ref next game.
> 
> Also I highly doubt you were a ref. If you were youd back the call and let it be. Refs manage difficult players, coaches, parents, and teams all at the same time.


Yes, I am a ref and this is an idiotic thing to say.  You don't know me.  I laid out the facts dude.  I agree that NO ONE should ever yell at a ref but from my experience EVERY sideline yells in a big game like this so it's a matter of how much.  That's all I'm saying.  I personally saw the HW coach running up and down the field yelling at the ref too with no consequences.  If the game is getting out of control, which this game was not, then I agree drastic measures need to be done.  I actually thought the ref did a good job in the game.

I just have one question.  How many refs out there have kicked off an ENTIRE sideline of 200 parents with NO WARNING and no racial or sexual slurs?  This is my point.


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## Carlsbad7 (May 23, 2021)

soccer dude said:


> Yes, I am a ref and this is an idiotic thing to say.  You don't know me.  I laid out the facts dude.  I agree that NO ONE should ever yell at a ref but from my experience EVERY sideline yells in a big game like this so it's a matter of how much.  That's all I'm saying.  I personally saw the HW coach running up and down the field yelling at the ref too with no consequences.  If the game is getting out of control, which this game was not, then I agree drastic measures need to be done.  I actually thought the ref did a good job in the game.
> 
> I just have one question.  How many refs out there have kicked off an ENTIRE sideline of 200 parents with NO WARNING and no racial or sexual slurs?  This is my point.


Did the kids get to continue playing?

Will the parents think twice about yelling at a ref next time?

Seems like you're having issues with unwritten rules that a ref needs to stop twice, look left, provide multiple warnings, talk to another ref, etc etc etc before making the call to eject parents.


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## dad4 (May 23, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Did the kids get to continue playing?
> 
> Will the parents think twice about yelling at a ref next time?
> 
> Seems like you're having issues with unwritten rules that a ref needs to stop twice, look left, provide multiple warnings, talk to another ref, etc etc etc before making the call to eject parents.


The parents probably won’t change behavior.  They will blame the ref.

If there were enough hecklers to justify removing the whole sideline, then there were enough hecklers to tell each other how right they were and how wrong the ref was.  It was probably one of the conversations in the parking lot after they got tossed.

I’d like to think there was a way to convince people to treat the ref as one more person who wears a uniform and makes mistakes.  I just don’t know what it is.


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## futboldad1 (May 23, 2021)

dad4 said:


> The parents probably won’t change behavior.  They will blame the ref.
> 
> If there were enough hecklers to justify removing the whole sideline, then there were enough hecklers to tell each other how right they were and how wrong the ref was.  It was probably one of the conversations in the parking lot after they got tossed.


1000 percent agree..... and such a bad example for the kids


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## Carlsbad7 (May 23, 2021)

Theres also a good chance that because the game was being played on HS field that the ref was instructed to have Zero Tolerence on things like Racial / Homophobic / Religious Slurs.

Kids get suspended for doing it why wouldnt the parents be treated the same when on school property.


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## espola (May 23, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Theres also a good chance that because the game was being played on HS field that the ref was instructed to have Zero Tolerence on things like Racial / Homophobic / Religious Slurs.
> 
> Kids get suspended for doing it why wouldnt the parents be treated the same when on school property.


They don't suspend the whole school.


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## Yousername (May 23, 2021)

Girls D5 game yesterday where the home team’s fans were making racial comments related to COVID pandemic to opposing team’s Asian players. Ref stopped the game and talked to the home coach, but eventually let the game play on. Home team won in 2nd half OT on golden goal rule, but there was nothing done to the home fans. The worst part about this was that it was some of the HS boys, and not one single adult on that side stopped them or attempted to shut them up. I’m guessing the adults in the stands are parents and maybe teachers, staff, faculty. NOT ONE WORD!!! This is happening to a teenage girl!!! Reprehensible and disgusting!!!


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## soccer dude (May 23, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Theres also a good chance that because the game was being played on HS field that the ref was instructed to have Zero Tolerence on things like Racial / Homophobic / Religious Slurs.
> 
> Kids get suspended for doing it why wouldnt the parents be treated the same when on school property.


I agree with this and as I said above, none of this happened.  I again agree that yelling at the ref should not happen.  But how can a ref eject 200 parents without even explaining to ANYONE why?  This should never happen.  I, as a ref, would never ever do this without at least explaining why I'm throwing out the entire sideline.  This is just begging for escalation from a sideline and something I would be fearful of if I ever did this.  This is probably why the ref asked for a security escort to his car.  As a ref, if I'm asking for security to escort me off the field, maybe I did something wrong? Nothing happened in this case as the ref parked right next to my car and we did not say a word to him as he walked by.  That was the right thing to do.  And I've warned many parents on the sideline that continuously scream at me because they think little suzie is getting fouled.  I calmly stop the game, talk the parent/coach in question and have had 0% problem with parents afterwards.  That is how a real ref handles problematic parents/coaches.  So, please stop with the "the ref can kick anyone out and not think twice or warn" comments.  That is not reality.


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## soccer dude (May 23, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Did the kids get to continue playing?
> 
> Will the parents think twice about yelling at a ref next time?
> 
> Seems like you're having issues with unwritten rules that a ref needs to stop twice, look left, provide multiple warnings, talk to another ref, etc etc etc before making the call to eject parents.


Yes, to everything you said.  If you read what I said, I only asked for 1 warning.  Parents deserve that at least.  Otherwise, you're asking for a meeting in the parking lot after, something I would never want as a ref.


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## soccer dude (May 23, 2021)

Yousername said:


> Girls D5 game yesterday where the home team’s fans were making racial comments related to COVID pandemic to opposing team’s Asian players. Ref stopped the game and talked to the home coach, but eventually let the game play on. Home team won in 2nd half OT on golden goal rule, but there was nothing done to the home fans. The worst part about this was that it was some of the HS boys, and not one single adult on that side stopped them or attempted to shut them up. I’m guessing the adults in the stands are parents and maybe teachers, staff, faculty. NOT ONE WORD!!! This is happening to a teenage girl!!! Reprehensible and disgusting!!!


Ref should have warned the coach/parents and then yellow card the coach with a warning to the fans, then eject the entire sideline if it continues.


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## Grace T. (May 23, 2021)

soccer dude said:


> I agree with this and as I said above, none of this happened.  I again agree that yelling at the ref should not happen.  But how can a ref eject 200 parents without even explaining to ANYONE why?  This should never happen.  I, as a ref, would never ever do this without at least explaining why I'm throwing out the entire sideline.  This is just begging for escalation from a sideline and something I would be fearful of if I ever did this.  This is probably why the ref asked for a security escort to his car.  As a ref, if I'm asking for security to escort me off the field, maybe I did something wrong? Nothing happened in this case as the ref parked right next to my car and we did not say a word to him as he walked by.  That was the right thing to do.  And I've warned many parents on the sideline that continuously scream at me because they think little suzie is getting fouled.  I calmly stop the game, talk the parent/coach in question and have had 0% problem with parents afterwards.  That is how a real ref handles problematic parents/coaches.  So, please stop with the "the ref can kick anyone out and not think twice or warn" comments.  That is not reality.


The laws make the cr the absolute and arbitrary dictator of his her domain. It’s why some refs can allow shoving matches and others can eject players en mass for shirt pulling. It’s somewhat a flaw in the laws imho that the refs are given so much power without accountability. The ref absolutely can so this and it is well within the refs power to exercise discretion in such circumstances.

Now whether the ref SHOULD have done that is a separate question which is still hard to tell without details particularly what it was the coaches on both sidelines were doing. 

@espola this is an example of the no true scot fallacy...or in this case the no true ref.


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## Grace T. (May 23, 2021)

soccer dude said:


> Yes, to everything you said.  If you read what I said, I only asked for 1 warning.  Parents deserve that at least.  Otherwise, you're asking for a meeting in the parking lot after, something I would never want as a ref.


The ref might have judged a security escort (was it h/w home...their security is very good) was better than fans potentially throwing stuff or the players fans taking matters in their own hands.  Ref can always call police after but a field melee is more problematic.


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## nofoul (May 24, 2021)

I agree with Carlsbad7 that you are probably embellishing your Referee credentials.  Perhaps you have officiated some recreational soccer matches in the past, but have you done decades of competitive soccer matches and are currently doing said matches?

That said, I will not dispute your perspective of what happened at this event.  It would be disingenuous of me since I was not there, and each of us views events through our experiences.

Let me offer a different perspective about this, since I know the referee team that did this match.  None of the Referees would ever side with a Coach's opinion about what his partner did or badmouth the Referee.  That is not within the realm of their professionalism.  If you were a true Referee, you should know this.  Disagreements, if any, among officials are discussed among the Referee team and with no one else (except Assessors or Inspectors).  After all, Referees have their perspectives too.

Your assertion that offenders ALWAYS need to be warned also shows that you have not gotten the the message spelled out in ongoing Referee training.  That is, if the offense is severe enough, you can eject immediately.

There is nothing anywhere that says a Referee must consult with his A/Rs.  If he, himself, has witnessed the offense with a high level of certainty, he can take action accordingly.

Because you didn't hear or witness the offense doesn't mean the Referee did not.

But, to be honest with you, I do wonder why there weren't any school administrators present to handle this incident.  Especially since this was a pretty significant game.    When I was threatened by a visiting parent at a regular high school game, the visiting team administrator was all over this incident even before the game had ended.


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## soccer dude (May 24, 2021)

nofoul said:


> I agree with Carlsbad7 that you are probably embellishing your Referee credentials.  Perhaps you have officiated some recreational soccer matches in the past, but have you done decades of competitive soccer matches and are currently doing said matches?
> 
> That said, I will not dispute your perspective of what happened at this event.  It would be disingenuous of me since I was not there, and each of us views events through our experiences.
> 
> ...


I like your assessment but I still have to ask.  How many times have you (in all of your infinite wisdom) thrown out an entire sideline of 200+ parents with no warning?  Still my point.  You are right in that a ref can do whatever he/she wants to but that doesn't make it right?  So, let me ask for the 10th time.  Have you ever done this, and even more important, what do you think the fan response would be if you did?  I never bow down to parents but you want to have good sideline presence so that you don't get jumped in the parking lot either.  To me, a good ref is one who controls the game and never lets it get out of control like ours did.  The right response would have been to have the coach calm the parents or else throw them out.  You have to agree with that at least.  Here's a nice video of us getting thrown out and some feedback.  



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1396271190197501954


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## soccer dude (May 24, 2021)

I do like what you said about field monitors.  That would be helpful.  I'm not saying our sideline needed it because I know our parents and a few say things a bit harsh (which I don't like) but that would have been better than jumping to the conclusion that was made.  I will say the ref did a good job during the game, just not in the ejection.


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## outside! (May 25, 2021)

Yousername said:


> Girls D5 game yesterday where the home team’s fans were making racial comments related to COVID pandemic to opposing team’s Asian players. Ref stopped the game and talked to the home coach, but eventually let the game play on. Home team won in 2nd half OT on golden goal rule, but there was nothing done to the home fans. The worst part about this was that it was some of the HS boys, and not one single adult on that side stopped them or attempted to shut them up. I’m guessing the adults in the stands are parents and maybe teachers, staff, faculty. NOT ONE WORD!!! This is happening to a teenage girl!!! Reprehensible and disgusting!!!


You should send an email to the home team's school principal. That principal should take drastic measures to make sure this does not happen in the next game.


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## Yousername (May 25, 2021)

outside! said:


> You should send an email to the home team's school principal. That principal should take drastic measures to make sure this does not happen in the next game.


Done! She replied back that they were investigating the incident, and assured our Athletic Director was in touch with their AD.


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## zebrafish (May 25, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I bet the parents wont yell at the ref next game.
> 
> Also I highly doubt you were a ref. If you were youd back the call and let it be. Refs manage difficult players, coaches, parents, and teams all at the same time.


I think "accept everything the ref says/does" is a ridiculous expectation. I've done some coaching , some ref'ing and I'm also a parent. I've seen a lot of terrible refs and poorly ref'd games. The game is fast, and I 100% understand that calls are missed-- I can live with that. What I really find troubling is the lack of game management by referees that jeopardizes player safety. I see this frequently. Refs are simply reluctant to give yellow cards. As an example, last weekend at National Cup, we had a ref crew that failed to card several out of control players who where throwing elbows and executing dangerous tackles (playing the player first, and the ball second). The refs have an obligation to keep players safe. So when this isn't happening, I am going to say something.


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## baldref (May 25, 2021)

zebrafish said:


> I think "accept everything the ref says/does" is a ridiculous expectation. I've done some coaching , some ref'ing and I'm also a parent. I've seen a lot of terrible refs and poorly ref'd games. The game is fast, and I 100% understand that calls are missed-- I can live with that. What I really find troubling is the lack of game management by referees that jeopardizes player safety. I see this frequently. Refs are simply reluctant to give yellow cards. As an example, last weekend at National Cup, we had a ref crew that failed to card several out of control players who where throwing elbows and executing dangerous tackles (playing the player first, and the ball second). The refs have an obligation to keep players safe. So when this isn't happening, I am going to say something.


So.... I agree that there are some referees that are not qualified to do games they are getting, and if they're older kids, it can be a problem. But how about putting some of the responsibility for out of control players, in that situation, on the coaches. They're as culpable for controlling dangerous players as the referees are if it's obvious things are going south. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but if it's obvious the center is over his head, why not reign in your aggressive players? Because, a lot of the time, the alternative to having that under qualified referee out there, is not playing that game. And if you think berating a referee that obviously isn't up to that level is going to help, I think maybe you should think that through a little better. If he can't control the players well, go ahead and add some more pressure to him. That will fix it. 

I totally understand your take. I just think blaming someone who just isn't experienced enough, who is put in that situation because there simply isn't anyone else, is misguided. A coach who allows their players to take advantage of a situation like that is as responsible as anyone if someone gets hurt.


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## SFR (May 25, 2021)

I also would like to hear from referees who do very competitive and HS games if they ever ejected entire sideline.
For the record, I am a referee and do club games for about 6 years.  I mostly do games up to u-16. I've seen a lot bad things coming from coaches and parents but I never ejected the entire side or herd that someone did it. In theory, I can imagine this happening if all goes to hell and you have 2 options left: end the game or kick all spectators out. But if a few spectators said/commented something, even something horrible I can't see how you can eject 200 people without dealing with it. Go to a coach and ask him/her to deal with parents and then based on what happens next make a decision.


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## SFR (May 25, 2021)

Honestly, I am not even sure if CR has authority to do that.


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## Carlsbad7 (May 25, 2021)

SFR said:


> I also would like to hear from referees who do very competitive and HS games if they ever ejected entire sideline.
> For the record, I am a referee and do club games for about 6 years.  I mostly do games up to u-16. I've seen a lot bad things coming from coaches and parents but I never ejected the entire side or herd that someone did it. In theory, I can imagine this happening if all goes to hell and you have 2 options left: end the game or kick all spectators out. But if a few spectators said/commented something, even something horrible I can't see how you can eject 200 people without dealing with it. Go to a coach and ask him/her to deal with parents and then based on what happens next make a decision.


Its definitely not common to eject an entire teams section. There must have been more going on than what's being reported. 

Or the ref was just on a power trip.

Either way as long as the kids got to keep playing and the offensive behaviour was addressed. All is right in the world.

Parents that were ejected will think twice about yelling at the ref again.


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## SFR (May 25, 2021)

I highly doubt that those parents who did this will learn anything but I am hoping that those parents who were ejected because of others will be more responsive and will be more reactive and stop those who can't keep their mouth shut.
Again, from my own experience, when my kid is playing and I am sitting with parents and they know I am a ref and I will always ask them to be patient and keep bad emotions inside. I tell them yes it was a questionable call or no call but it won't help screaming at referee and it makes things even worse. But, I am totally ok when parents or coaches are not happy with referees as long as it is not going over reasonable boundaries.
And, I think sometimes, we referees, are overreacting as well because we are people to.


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## espola (May 25, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Its definitely not common to eject an entire teams section. There must have been more going on than what's being reported.
> 
> Or the ref was just on a power trip.
> 
> ...


Parents who didn't yell at the referee will have a reason to develop a negative view of referees.


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## Giesbock (May 26, 2021)

I recognize that guy in the video who stopped to talk to the reporter.  I’ve heard him bashing refs from his seat on the side line several times. Pure obnoxious know it all.  No doubt that he was in the thick of parents behaving badly that day. And no surprise that he would be the one individual to put his stamp on how the Twittersphere perceives the incident.  Did I mention that he’s a cop?


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## baldref (May 26, 2021)

SFR said:


> Honestly, I am not even sure if CR has authority to do that.


You would be incorrect. I cleared an entire sideline at Surf Cup one time. The referee admin that was onsite watching the garbage parents asked me after the game why I waited so long.


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## Grace T. (May 26, 2021)

baldref said:


> So.... I agree that there are some referees that are not qualified to do games they are getting, and if they're older kids, it can be a problem. But how about putting some of the responsibility for out of control players, in that situation, on the coaches. They're as culpable for controlling dangerous players as the referees are if it's obvious things are going south. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but if it's obvious the center is over his head, why not reign in your aggressive players? Because, a lot of the time, the alternative to having that under qualified referee out there, is not playing that game. And if you think berating a referee that obviously isn't up to that level is going to help, I think maybe you should think that through a little better. If he can't control the players well, go ahead and add some more pressure to him. That will fix it.
> 
> I totally understand your take. I just think blaming someone who just isn't experienced enough, who is put in that situation because there simply isn't anyone else, is misguided. A coach who allows their players to take advantage of a situation like that is as responsible as anyone if someone gets hurt.


The incentives for the coach are to win, as discussed in the CSL thread the need to earn promotion (among others) distorts things.  It takes a lot for a coach to pull one of their key players to lecture them, maybe bench them.  Have even seen coaches instruct players to take out other players by making them frightened, injuring them or starting a fight to get them ejected.

here’s a hypothetical:  shot made to a far post by a striker running down the center. Goalkeeper extension dives and touches the ball with a finger tip sending it around the post. Referee doesn’t see the touch...awards a goalkicks.  Would your coach tell the goalkeeper that they should speak up and it is a corner?  How many coaches would back the gk if they speak up?  If the corner goes in would they berate the gk?  How many coaches out there do we expect would say the gk should speak up?


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## Grace T. (May 26, 2021)

baldref said:


> You would be incorrect. I cleared an entire sideline at Surf Cup one time. The referee admin that was onsite watching the garbage parents asked me after the game why I waited so long.


The laws make the cr the absolute master of his realm


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## baldref (May 26, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> The incentives for the coach are to win, as discussed in the CSL thread the need to earn promotion (among others) distorts things.  It takes a lot for a coach to pull one of their key players to lecture them, maybe bench them.  Have even seen coaches instruct players to take out other players by making them frightened, injuring them or starting a fight to get them ejected.
> 
> here’s a hypothetical:  shot made to a far post by a striker running down the center. Goalkeeper extension dives and touches the ball with a finger tip sending it around the post. Referee doesn’t see the touch...awards a goalkicks.  Would your coach tell the goalkeeper that they should speak up and it is a corner?  How many coaches would back the gk if they speak up?  If the corner goes in would they berate the gk?  How many coaches out there do we expect would say the gk should speak up?


Not really what I was saying, and an apples and bananas comparison. Coaches are the first and loudest to scream about "someone's going to get hurt", yet in the instance I related, they are the only ones who could prevent it. The center can't because he's not qualified to. The coaches know what is going on. I'm just saying, the blame isn't exclusively on the center, or the assignor for putting him/her in that position. 

Cards aren't magic dust either. They are management tools and when used correctly, can "manage" some of the dirty and over aggressive play in a game. But they don't prevent injuries if there's a player who is spurred on by a coach to go after other players.


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## baldref (May 26, 2021)

Grace T. said:


> The laws make the cr the absolute master of his realm


I'm not really sure I would agree with this statement either. In essence, I guess you could look at it that way. But again, it's about responsibility. If a referee needs to clear a sideline, or needs to toss a coach for the good of that game, and to keep a safe environment for the players, that's something he/she is forced into by others, who should accept the responsibility of their actions.


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## Grace T. (May 26, 2021)

baldref said:


> Not really what I was saying, and an apples and bananas comparison. Coaches are the first and loudest to scream about "someone's going to get hurt", yet in the instance I related, they are the only ones who could prevent it. The center can't because he's not qualified to. The coaches know what is going on. I'm just saying, the blame isn't exclusively on the center, or the assignor for putting him/her in that position.
> 
> Cards aren't magic dust either. They are management tools and when used correctly, can "manage" some of the dirty and over aggressive play in a game. But they don't prevent injuries if there's a player who is spurred on by a coach to go after other players.


Agree and well put but if the hope is coaches should control players that’s simply not going to happen while we have a system where winning is so important and coaches aren’t disciplined severely for bad conduct.


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## Frank (May 26, 2021)

We received specific instruction before playoffs that this sort of harassment has zero tolerance.  The ref must have felt this was the appropriate action to take to ensure the safety of the teams and his crew.


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## soccer dude (May 26, 2021)

Frank said:


> We received specific instruction before playoffs that this sort of harassment has zero tolerance.  The ref must have felt this was the appropriate action to take to ensure the safety of the teams and his crew.


Then the other sideline should have been tossed as well.  When there are subjective terms like this, all goes to hell.  I don't have the video but if you watch it, you can see the other coach running up and down the sideline during a few calls.  Why is that ok?  I'm claiming that no one in the game should have been thrown out but refs need to be fair.  He obviously thought we were worse and I say "why"?


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## notintheface (May 26, 2021)

baldref said:


> Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but if it's obvious the center is over his head, why not reign in your aggressive players?


Feel like this is a pretty obvious answer, but here goes anyways. We can shout "don't foul don't foul don't foul" all day long. We cannot and will not shout "back off" or "tone it down" or "settle down" or whatever because that will 100% be misinterpreted by players and families. We can only play good cop in that scenario, you have to be the bad cop.


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## baldref (May 27, 2021)

notintheface said:


> Feel like this is a pretty obvious answer, but here goes anyways. We can shout "don't foul don't foul don't foul" all day long. We cannot and will not shout "back off" or "tone it down" or "settle down" or whatever because that will 100% be misinterpreted by players and families. We can only play good cop in that scenario, you have to be the bad cop.


my point was, if I'm not capable of being bad cop because i'm a glorified AYSO ref over his head, then what happens? And if you don't at the very least call your bruiser over to the sideline and tell him/her to tone it down, you're as responsible as anyone if an ankle gets snapped. 
It's a situation that needs a players first outlook.


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## Frank (May 27, 2021)

soccer dude said:


> Then the other sideline should have been tossed as well.  When there are subjective terms like this, all goes to hell.  I don't have the video but if you watch it, you can see the other coach running up and down the sideline during a few calls.  Why is that ok?  I'm claiming that no one in the game should have been thrown out but refs need to be fair.  He obviously thought we were worse and I say "why"?


Oh. it's the "he's doing it too defense".   Now I get it.

The notification i was referencing was about racial, derogatory type issues.  A coach being a clown on the sideline has its own set of ways to deal with.


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## SFR (May 27, 2021)

Going back to the ejection of entire sideline. It looks like there are 2 sides of the story (as usually is). The question remains open if what referee did was justifiable or not. And I guess it pointless to argue as we don't have all the facts. I just can tell from my own experience of being referee for 6 + years and by the way I still grade myself as immature referee as I am doing it for fun and for the love of a game that I can't believe what I see and hear what comes from coaches and parents. I understand about the passion, emotions, and that sometimes people can snapped from a little tiny thing ( I know call or no call is not a little thing but still) and sometimes coming after the game I am shaking and thinking that is it I am done with refereeing. It makes me very sad for the entire human been. And, what is worse when you see a teenager referee doing the game and coaches disregard the youth and in the name of winning can't hold their nature and parents in their emotions forget that they are parents themselves and it could be their kid out there.


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## Dominic (May 27, 2021)

Any video of what led to the ejections?


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## soccer dude (May 27, 2021)

Dominic said:


> Any video of what led to the ejections?


No, I've tried but CIF has monopolized the video.  Nowhere to be found.  I'll keep trying.


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## soccer dude (May 28, 2021)

I usually don't give kudos to refs and I never hear the good stuff about refs but tonight I watched a very well ref'd game by our Santiago boys championship DII CIF game in Aliso against Aliso.  I very much appreciate a good ref'd game, don't you?  Even though we lost, I want to give a shout-out to the refs.  Here's why.
1)  There was a clearing of the benches during a scuffle and the refs not only intervened at the right moments (physically getting in between piles of boys), they had the game moving forward in 30 seconds.  Amazing.
2)  4 or so yellow cards to manage the dangerousness of the game.  It was starting to become dangerous up until the yellow cards were displayed.  Again, wonderful work to keep the game safe.
3)  Not one injury in the entire game.  Amazing for a championship boys game.  Way to keep the game safe and injury free.
4)  Both coaches were yelling at the refs over questionable calls (they got it right imo) and the ref walked over and spoke to both of them at different times.  The ref firmly held his ground with good hand gestures.  Both coaches were calm afterwards and never posed additional threats to the ref.  Again, great job calming coaches during this very heated battle.   
5)  Lastly, the Ref never got hit with the ball.  How many of us have been nailed in fast-paced games.  His athleticism showed as he pulled some Matrix moves several times not to interfere with momentum.

So, whoever you refs are, GOOD JOB!  I hope we get you for our upcoming regional games.


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## Lodan36 (May 29, 2021)

From what I was told by a Santiago parent was that a player dribbled out of the endline then dribbled back in...line ref raised the flag for a corner...meanwhile play continued and a foul was committed in the box and center ref called for a penalty...so line ref lowered his flag when center ref didn't see him...and all the commotion was to get the center ref to look at the line ref to go back to the corner kick...line ref decided he was going to bow his head and not say a word....so screaming and unfortunately abusive language was used..


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## justneededaname (Jun 4, 2021)

Parent sideline ejected. Bench clearing scuffle. You all really know how to make a guy look forward to their visit to Santiago on Saturday. Crossing my fingers for a good ref crew.


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## SFR (Jun 4, 2021)

justneededaname said:


> Parent sideline ejected. Bench clearing scuffle. You all really know how to make a guy look forward to their visit to Santiago on Saturday. Crossing my fingers for a good ref crew.


In addition of hope for a good ref crew how about to work with parents and coaches to explain them that missing calls even that could lead to a goal won't end the world. Compare bad call(s) with some tragic events like the death of a relative, close friend or a home pet. Explain them that it's OK to be unhappy and it's OK to express it with some load screaming but it's not OK to loose control over it and start inexcusable behavior


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Jun 8, 2021)

I have the other side here. and this is the link: Harvard-Westlake girls soccer tops Santiago in drama-filled Division 1 semifinal  – Press Enterprise (pe.com)


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Jun 8, 2021)

And... the Update:


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Jun 8, 2021)

All right. My two cents on the incident.

1. This guy has been in this referee group for a while, he is respected... so, I believe him when he says he has never kicked out a sideline before. As for the other stuff, that is a he said she said situation. I can't make a judgment on that.

2. Does the referee have the authority to remove a parent.... or a sideline by extrapolation? The answer is: sort of.

The referee only has jurisdiction over the soccer game, that means everything inside the touchlines and the technical areas. He has no technical power over a parent, who is a free person not subject to the whims of another in America. However, what a referee can do is stop the game (which he has authority over) and refuse to resume officiating the game until he gets what he wants. If it seems no one will comply with his request, then he can walk off the field, thereby ending the game officially. He would then be required to send a report to his association/assignor for his reasons. For the most part, the association will back up the referee as long as states he has a legitimate cause.

I have personally kicked out only a handful of parents myself. I refuse to address the parents, look them in eye or their general direction, or generally acknowledge their existence. When I kicked them out I stopped the game, told the coach I would not resume until a parent was removed. "Which parent" they asked 1 time. I said, "I'm not picky, choose one". (they were just being difficult, they knew which one). But I honestly didn't care. If they chose the wrong one but the sideline shut up, problem solved, if they chose the wrong one and the sideline didn't shut up, I would repeat the process until they kicked out the right one.

In conclusion, when is the last time you have seen an EPL referee point to some drunkard in the stand and go, "I want that one gone"


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## soccer dude (Jun 8, 2021)

Definitelynotanotherref said:


> And... the Update:
> View attachment 10945


It's funny how you try to defend yourself with "I have zero tolerance" but you never say what we actually said.  If you're going to come on this forum and bad mouth our parents have some you-know-what to say what we said to warrant throwing 200 people out that drove 2 hours.  You can't because we didn't and that's why the parents are standing in this photo the way they are.  Because nothing was said dude.  And to clear the air, did you ever consult the AR standing next to you on if he heard anything?  As a ref myself I was reluctant to post this but I was/am frustrated having to leave a game after driving to LA traffic and doing nothing wrong.


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## baldref (Jun 9, 2021)

Definitelynotanotherref said:


> All right. My two cents on the incident.
> 
> 1. This guy has been in this referee group for a while, he is respected... so, I believe him when he says he has never kicked out a sideline before. As for the other stuff, that is a he said she said situation. I can't make a judgment on that.
> 
> ...


This is semantics, and not correct. A referee in a youth game obviously can remove parents, even in the stands at a high school game. And he / she will be supported by the administration that governs his / her actions.
Youth soccer is not EPL, and never will be. Laws and rules are very different from youth soccer to professional soccer.


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## paytoplay (Jun 9, 2021)

Typical OC entitlement at play here. Their team is not used to getting whooped and parents couldn’t behave themselves. Poor sportsmanship and poor exercise of self control. You learned a lesson. Life goes on.


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## watfly (Jun 9, 2021)

Set me straight.  Isn't typical guidance for off field dissent to Ask, Tell, Dismiss.  Is it different for High School?  It sounds like the ref went straight to Dismiss.  I can see skipping Ask, but going straight to Dismiss seems very heavy handed and potentially an abuse of power.  I don't know what was said and I don't condone obscenities screamed at refs and particularly youth players, but it seems very disruptive to the players and the game to eject an entire sideline for a few bad actors.  Was the delay and disruption worth it to prove a point?

The ref only owes an explanation to the CIF, but then he goes on social media to bad mouth a parent.  If he wants to file a complaint he should with the CIF, but there is something unsavory about trying this parent in the court of public opinion first.  It seems that if he can out a parent on social media he could disclose what was said that required dismissing an entire stand full of parents.

I don't know the facts and I very well could be wrong, but something in addition to parent behavior doesn't smell right to me.


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## JumboJack (Jun 9, 2021)

watfly said:


> Set me straight.  Isn't typical guidance for off field dissent to Ask, Tell, Dismiss.  Is it different for High School?  It sounds like the ref went straight to Dismiss.  I can see skipping Ask, but going straight to Dismiss seems very heavy handed and potentially an abuse of power.  I don't know what was said and I don't condone obscenities screamed at refs and particularly youth players, but it seems very disruptive to the players and the game to eject an entire sideline for a few bad actors.  Was the delay and disruption worth it to prove a point?
> 
> The ref only owes an explanation to the CIF, but then he goes on social media to bad mouth a parent.  If he wants to file a complaint he should with the CIF, but there is something unsavory about trying this parent in the court of public opinion first.  It seems that if he can out a parent on social media he could disclose what was said that required dismissing an entire stand full of parents.
> 
> I don't know the facts and I very well could be wrong, but something in addition to parent behavior doesn't smell right to me.


Ask, Tell, Dismiss is the normal operating procedure unless the offender chooses the nuclear option. We all know what that is. Not saying that’s the case here but it could have been.


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## watfly (Jun 9, 2021)

JumboJack said:


> Ask, Tell, Dismiss is the normal operating procedure unless the offender chooses the nuclear option. We all know what that is. Not saying that’s the case here but it could have been.


Since I'm not a ref, what's considered the nuclear option?  Is it dropping an "f bomb" or "f bomb + insult".  I can see a racist or homophobic slur being nuclear, or calling a woman the "C word".  The ref only referred to obscenities, so I assume it wasn't a slur.

It's easy for me to Monday morning quarterback, but could he have asked the coach to ask the fans who was the one(s) that made the offensive remark, and if the fans wouldn't then eject the whole group.


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## Technician72 (Jun 9, 2021)

From the article:

_In the middle of the second half, center referee Brandon Will stopped play and ordered the Santiago fans to clear the stands. He told Santiago coach Mike Fleming he heard obscenities from the visiting fans.

“In my 22 years I’ve never seen anything like that before,” Fleming said. “The official allowed his ego to get in the way. He said someone called him gay from our stands. For him to accuse our fans of that is ludicrous.” 

“The assistant ref didn’t hear anything, none of our families heard anything, but the center ref is saying someone used the F-word and used an off-color epitaph against him,” said Dana Potts, a father for one of Santiago’s players._


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## watfly (Jun 9, 2021)

Technician72 said:


> From the article:
> 
> _In the middle of the second half, center referee Brandon Will stopped play and ordered the Santiago fans to clear the stands. He told Santiago coach Mike Fleming he heard obscenities from the visiting fans.
> 
> ...


Thanks.  Missed the slur part.


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## outside! (Jun 9, 2021)

watfly said:


> Thanks.  Missed the slur part.


A few years ago at Silverlakes, we were waiting for the game before ours to finish on one of the fields whose sideline borders a parking lot. A group of parents for that game were being pretty belligerent, but the ref seemed to be ignoring them. One of the parents yelled "f*&^ing (insert English slang word for cigarette)". Ref blows whistle, walks over to sideline, loudly says  "Gay lives matter too" and dismissed that group of parents from the sideline. Our group of parents starts laughing and applauds the ref".


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## baldref (Jun 9, 2021)

watfly said:


> Set me straight.  Isn't typical guidance for off field dissent to Ask, Tell, Dismiss.  Is it different for High School?  It sounds like the ref went straight to Dismiss.  I can see skipping Ask, but going straight to Dismiss seems very heavy handed and potentially an abuse of power.  I don't know what was said and I don't condone obscenities screamed at refs and particularly youth players, but it seems very disruptive to the players and the game to eject an entire sideline for a few bad actors.  Was the delay and disruption worth it to prove a point?
> 
> The ref only owes an explanation to the CIF, but then he goes on social media to bad mouth a parent.  If he wants to file a complaint he should with the CIF, but there is something unsavory about trying this parent in the court of public opinion first.  It seems that if he can out a parent on social media he could disclose what was said that required dismissing an entire stand full of parents.
> 
> I don't know the facts and I very well could be wrong, but something in addition to parent behavior doesn't smell right to me.


Ask, tell, dismiss used to be the accepted guidance for coach behavior. With yellow being allowed for coaches now, it's not the guidance anymore. You get fed up with what a coach is saying, you card him, whatever color you deem apporiopriate. When it comes to dealing with parents, it's completely discretionary on removing them. I agree that to take that action there needs to be a very over the top comment. Either racial, homophobic, or seriously foul language, or calling out a youth, etc.... Definition of foul language can be different from person to person. 
As none of us heard what this referee heard, and the only report was that he said he was called "gay", it's all hypothetical as to what happened. I seem to usually side with the experienced referee in hypothetical. Go figure.... 
Years of experience also play into that. I have heard outrageous crap flying off the sidelines. 

As for the referee posting about it on social.... Poor move there to be sure.


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Jun 9, 2021)

soccer dude said:


> It's funny how you try to defend yourself with "I have zero tolerance" but you never say what we actually said.  If you're going to come on this forum and bad mouth our parents have some you-know-what to say what we said to warrant throwing 200 people out that drove 2 hours.  You can't because we didn't and that's why the parents are standing in this photo the way they are.  Because nothing was said dude.  And to clear the air, did you ever consult the AR standing next to you on if he heard anything?  As a ref myself I was reluctant to post this but I was/am frustrated having to leave a game after driving to LA traffic and doing nothing wrong.


Read my 2 cents comment. I am not the referee in question, just someone that knows him on Facebook. Secondly, if you read my 2nd point, a referee can dismiss a sideline for basically any reason. If he in theory said, "I kicked them out because they were annoying"... that is within their power. It's just the assignor would look at him a little differently, but to be honest, it would not change that much.

I remember the 1st couple of weeks of Covid High School Soccer where some schools allowed 0 fans to watch. It was a really nice experience. There is an argument to just pre-emptively kick out all parents if you hear even 1 negative comment. We don't care how long you drove. A parent that flew 8 hours to see a game doesn't have more license to be obnoxious than a parent that had a 5 minute drive. You are all the same in our eyes.


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Jun 9, 2021)

baldref said:


> This is semantics, and not correct. A referee in a youth game obviously can remove parents, even in the stands at a high school game. And he / she will be supported by the administration that governs his / her actions.
> Youth soccer is not EPL, and never will be. Laws and rules are very different from youth soccer to professional soccer.


I think refs kick out parents directly just to take out the middle man. I do not HAVE to go through the coaches, I choose to do so. I like the message it sends.

The semantics are what gives the ref authority to kick out a parent. They asked what the rationale was. Not everyone has to do it the way I do it.


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## Definitelynotanotherref (Jun 9, 2021)

watfly said:


> Set me straight.  Isn't typical guidance for off field dissent to Ask, Tell, Dismiss.  Is it different for High School?  It sounds like the ref went straight to Dismiss.  I can see skipping Ask, but going straight to Dismiss seems very heavy handed and potentially an abuse of power.  I don't know what was said and I don't condone obscenities screamed at refs and particularly youth players, but it seems very disruptive to the players and the game to eject an entire sideline for a few bad actors.  Was the delay and disruption worth it to prove a point?
> 
> The ref only owes an explanation to the CIF, but then he goes on social media to bad mouth a parent.  If he wants to file a complaint he should with the CIF, but there is something unsavory about trying this parent in the court of public opinion first.  It seems that if he can out a parent on social media he could disclose what was said that required dismissing an entire stand full of parents.
> 
> I don't know the facts and I very well could be wrong, but something in addition to parent behavior doesn't smell right to me.


ASK, Tell, Dismiss is the  guidelines  they tell us to use on coaches. They do not technically have to apply to spectators. We have responsibilities to the game and its players, none for fans.

I have had coaches ask me before when I kick out a parent "Don't they get a warning?" I say, "Warnings are for players and coaches". Parents attendance is a privilege and not a right.

As for disrupting the game, in high school, the clock is start/stop, not additional time. Therefore, the kids don't miss a single second of game time. If your argument is that they may need to stretch and loosen up a bit before the game restarts again, that is kind of a stretch to call "disruptive". No more disruptive than hearing a parent tell your opponent "If he is not going to call that, do the same to her".

As for the Public opinion complaint 2 things:
1. This was made in a private referee group of only referees. Hardly "the public"
2. How is it NOT "trying the [referee] in the court of public opinion" to complain to a reporter with 1 side of the story. That news article had far more reach than a social media post.


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## baldref (Jun 9, 2021)

Definitelynotanotherref said:


> I think refs kick out parents directly just to take out the middle man. I do not HAVE to go through the coaches, I choose to do so. I like the message it sends.
> 
> The semantics are what gives the ref authority to kick out a parent. They asked what the rationale was. Not everyone has to do it the way I do it.


As long as the results are that the game is safe and fair for the players, and, follows protocol that would be supported by your admins, it's all good.


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## Carlsbad7 (Jun 9, 2021)

I cant believe this thread is still going on. 

Also I cant believe the number of negative posts against the refs.

Players and coaches got to finish the game.

The only group "hurt" by the refs decision was parents who are miffed b/c they "drove 2 hours to watch a game". What a bunch of entitled babies. Seriously, get over it + move on.


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## SFR (Jun 9, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> I cant believe this thread is still going on.
> Also I cant believe the number of negative posts against the refs .........


I also can't believe this thread is still going on. But, in farness to all those parents who were sent away due to one or a few offenders, I have to say that dismissing entire sideline is way to much. I am a ref and a parent. I am not claiming to be a perfect ref or a parent. As a ref I've seen bad behavior coming from coaches or parents and as a parent I've seen bad/horrible calls or no calls coming from refs side, which brings the worst human reaction coming from coaches, parents, and players. I am not here defending refs or parents but I still think that a referee decision to send off entire sideline is way over-reacting. For those who call this move ok and saying it's a lesson for parents is like are you serious? Is it like you have a bad finger and doctor decides to cut the entire hand without tying to treat the finger 1st? Let's imagine, hypatetecly,  central referee made a bad call for something and upon review it was determined that it was a wrong call and then referee completely messed up the whole game. And because of that entire referee crew should be punished and not allowed to do games along with ref assignor to be punished for allowing that ref to sign up for a game. Probably, those who defends ref decision would say it's to much and it's overkill.


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## Frank (Jun 9, 2021)

JumboJack said:


> Ask, Tell, Dismiss is the normal operating procedure unless the offender chooses the nuclear option. We all know what that is. Not saying that’s the case here but it could have been.


The pre playoff instructions was that there was zero


SFR said:


> I also can't believe this thread is still going on. But, in farness to all those parents who were sent away due to one or a few offenders, I have to say that dismissing entire sideline is way to much. I am a ref and a parent. I am not claiming to be a perfect ref or a parent. As a ref I've seen bad behavior coming from coaches or parents and as a parent I've seen bad/horrible calls or no calls coming from refs side, which brings the worst human reaction coming from coaches, parents, and players. I am not here defending refs or parents but I still think that a referee decision to send off entire sideline is way over-reacting. For those who call this move ok and saying it's a lesson for parents is like are you serious? Is it like you have a bad finger and doctor decides to cut the entire hand without tying to treat the finger 1st? Let's imagine, hypatetecly,  central referee made a bad call for something and upon review it was determined that it was a wrong call and then referee completely messed up the whole game. And because of that entire referee crew should be punished and not allowed to do games along with ref assignor to be punished for allowing that ref to sign up for a game. Probably, those who defends ref decision would say it's to much and it's overkill.


cif was very clear before playoffs that this type of incident had a zero tolerance policy for everyone involved. a Significant point of emphasis. I don’t know if I would have cleared a sideline, but I can guarantee you someone would be leaving. 

what you describe as your hypothetical scenario is just another Sunday.


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## baldref (Jun 10, 2021)

SFR said:


> Is it like you have a bad finger and doctor decides to cut the entire hand without tying to treat the finger 1st?


No, it's not like that at all.


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## espola (Jun 10, 2021)

So far in this discussion, I like best the "I'm not choosy, pick one" method.


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## Giesbock (Jun 10, 2021)

I wasn’t there. I don’t know the nuances of rules that govern the situation. It’s over and done. But I do know that a serial, ref abusing loudmouth was there. And I’m sure he wasn’t sitting watching quietly…


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## Toch (Jun 13, 2021)

zebrafish said:


> I think "accept everything the ref says/does" is a ridiculous expectation. I've done some coaching , some ref'ing and I'm also a parent. I've seen a lot of terrible refs and poorly ref'd games. The game is fast, and I 100% understand that calls are missed-- I can live with that. What I really find troubling is the lack of game management by referees that jeopardizes player safety. I see this frequently. Refs are simply reluctant to give yellow cards. As an example, last weekend at National Cup, we had a ref crew that failed to card several out of control players who where throwing elbows and executing dangerous tackles (playing the player first, and the ball second). The refs have an obligation to keep players safe. So when this isn't happening, I am going to say something.


Sounds like another parent who goes to watch their beloved child who never does anything wrong/bad on the pitch. Just because the ref crew didn’t help you win the game doesn’t make them terrible


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## Toch (Jun 13, 2021)

soccer dude said:


> Then the other sideline should have been tossed as well.  When there are subjective terms like this, all goes to hell.  I don't have the video but if you watch it, you can see the other coach running up and down the sideline during a few calls.  Why is that ok?  I'm claiming that no one in the game should have been thrown out but refs need to be fair.  He obviously thought we were worse and I say "why"?


Referees don’t need to consult anyone to determine if he heard what he heard. Perhaps you should take some ownership in the action that lead to the reaction of having the whole fan base kicked out. Saying parents would never say something like that does not help your case at all. I’ve seen whole sidelines cleared. The number of people is inconsequential. Say stupid things win stupid prizes. T


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## Toch (Jun 13, 2021)

zebrafish said:


> I think "accept everything the ref says/does" is a ridiculous expectation. I've done some coaching , some ref'ing and I'm also a parent. I've seen a lot of terrible refs and poorly ref'd games. The game is fast, and I 100% understand that calls are missed-- I can live with that. What I really find troubling is the lack of game management by referees that jeopardizes player safety. I see this frequently. Refs are simply reluctant to give yellow cards. As an example, last weekend at National Cup, we had a ref crew that failed to card several out of control players who where throwing elbows and executing dangerous tackles (playing the player first, and the ball second). The refs have an obligation to keep players safe. So when this isn't happening, I am going to say something.


Sounds like another parent who goes to watch their beloved child who never does anything wrong/bad on the pitch. Just because the ref crew didn’t help you win the game doesn’t make them terrible


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## Eagle33 (Jun 23, 2021)

Definitelynotanotherref said:


> ASK, Tell, Dismiss is the  guidelines  they tell us to use on coaches. They do not technically have to apply to spectators. We have responsibilities to the game and its players, none for fans.
> 
> I have had coaches ask me before when I kick out a parent "Don't they get a warning?" I say, "Warnings are for players and coaches". Parents attendance is a privilege and not a right.
> 
> ...


How nice of you taking conversation from a private group and posting it on  public forum - you deserve some kind of recognition for this.
As far as sending sideline off, it's absolutely ridiculous thing to do. There is a simple solution - make a coach responsible for sideline behavior. All referee had to do is talk to the coach about it and let coach deal with it. If not, coach gets a caution and if it continues, coach gets send off. Do that next time and you'll see how quickly sideline behavior will change.


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## soccer dude (Jun 23, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> How nice of you taking conversation from a private group and posting it on  public forum - you deserve some kind of recognition for this.
> As far as sending sideline off, it's absolutely ridiculous thing to do. There is a simple solution - make a coach responsible for sideline behavior. All referee had to do is talk to the coach about it and let coach deal with it. If not, coach gets a caution and if it continues, coach gets send off. Do that next time and you'll see how quickly sideline behavior will change.


Now this is the smartest thing I've heard on this forum.  As a coach many years ago, I was warned exactly as "Eagle33" points out, and as a result, I ran to the parents and told them to shut up.  Worked like a charm.


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## watfly (Jun 23, 2021)

Eagle33 said:


> How nice of you taking conversation from a private group and posting it on  public forum - you deserve some kind of recognition for this.


The best part was the irony of his response went completely over his head.


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Jul 19, 2021)

I'm 99.72% certain soccer dude has selective hearing loss issues.

After our game Saturday, the coach's wife and mom of the goalkeeper came up to me after the game and mentioned she heard someone on our sidelines say "get their ankles".  We know each other from playing against each other in a friendly adult league.  She told me she just wanted me to know, and knew I wasn't cool with that (she was right).  I mentioned it to a few parents, and they all swore, SWORE, they did not hear that, and no way it could be true.  The next day, come to find out, it was said by a young kid, and his mom tore him up for it immediately.


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Jul 19, 2021)

espola said:


> So far in this discussion, I like best the "I'm not choosy, pick one" method.


I will start using this approach from now on when the things I hear are bad enough.  I love it.


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## soccer dude (Jul 21, 2021)

Soccer Dad & Ref said:


> I'm 99.72% certain soccer dude has selective hearing loss issues.
> 
> After our game Saturday, the coach's wife and mom of the goalkeeper came up to me after the game and mentioned she heard someone on our sidelines say "get their ankles".  We know each other from playing against each other in a friendly adult league.  She told me she just wanted me to know, and knew I wasn't cool with that (she was right).  I mentioned it to a few parents, and they all swore, SWORE, they did not hear that, and no way it could be true.  The next day, come to find out, it was said by a young kid, and his mom tore him up for it immediately.


I appreciate the response but what does that have anything to do with my original post?  So, are you saying the ref threw us all out because some kid said "get their ankles"?  First, I don't even know what that means and second, how would any ref put any value on that very mild statement?  And third, I did not hear (and from what you said no one else did either) any of this and I was on the 50.


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Jul 22, 2021)

soccer dude said:


> I appreciate the response but what does that have anything to do with my original post?  So, are you saying the ref threw us all out because some kid said "get their ankles"?  First, I don't even know what that means and second, how would any ref put any value on that very mild statement?  And third, I did not hear (and from what you said no one else did either) any of this and I was on the 50.


My story was about a different game than yours, sorry for the confusion you are having. My point was that most parents are so clueless they don't even admit to hearing something that did happen, or believe their precious sideline could be guilty of said crime.  That kid in my story did say something, the other team's parents heard it, yet some of ours swear that could never happen.


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