# SoCal Soccer League -"Wait, the fox will eat the chickens if he is guarding the henhouse ?"



## D8958 (Oct 7, 2021)

Okay SoCal Soccer League, the time has come, no need to wait any longer. Its clear, you don't know what you're doing.
How people setting policy at this league are so naive is beyond me.

*I.*
From the email sent today:
"_We have had some issues and reports regarding Clubs/Teams abusing the Club Pass Rule. For that reason, we are sending this reminder of the both the written rule and the Spirit of the Rule_."

Wait, how is this possible ? 
Are you saying SoCal Soccer League is unaware they're are coaches and administrators in Club Youth Soccer that struggle on an ethical and moral level ?

_"The issues we are having include, but aren’t limited to, teams Club Passing players from ECNL, GA, DPL, etc. to teams including Flight 3 teams even with teams that have plenty of subs to play the game. Discovery NPL players being Club Passed down to “stack rosters”, the number of Club Passed players written on the Game Report causes the team to exceed the 18-player roster without players being crossed out, some teams believe the integrity of the flight, teams and league are being negatively impacted because it is happening in too frequently."_

I read this and thought I am probably gifted with the ability to predict the future. Of course I am not gifted with that ability and I didn't think I was for one second because 80 percent of the people on this board would have explained what was going to happen before the start of the season.

_"For the good of the game and to ensure that the integrity of SOCAL is maintained, we will be looking into the reports of abuse of this rule as it is intended as they arise."_

For the good of the game, someone needs to shut your league down because this policy set up the following value thread.

*The Club is more important than the player. Wins are more important than Development.*
When a player from an upper level team comes down from Flight 1 to Flight 3, he is taking time away from a flight 3 player. 
I don't care if they are saying it was to cover teams that didn't have enough players, you are a fool to setup a system that can be abused and expect Club Soccer Coaches and Administrators to be the ones in charge of when players are loaned.

If your club can't get enough players to form a team and it has to borrow players, go to a different club. 
The club doesn't deserve the team or the money that comes with it if they can't get enough players.

*II.*
16 League Games, if State Cup included, 20 Total Games at least in a 6 month period

At a time where Referees are very scarce, how does this make sense ?
The ref shortage wasn't a hidden issue, the tournaments held in the summer made the situation very obvious and very clear.

So what mind are you in when you set up an essentially fraudulent League Season product where you schedule a number of games that can't possibly be covered by adequate referee crews ?
One ref for an 11 v 11 game ? 

Who wanted a 16 game regular season ? I haven't met anyone yet that wanted it. And you are going to set one up now at a time when referees are as scarce as ever ?

20 total games in 6 months. Timbuck posted this 
US Soccer recommends 7v7 players should not play more than 20 games per *calendar year*.

But somehow SoCal Soccer League came to a different conclusion. I mean they obviously have their own stack of research indicating otherwise, right ?

Looking at their body of work and policy for this fall season I think we know the answer is no, they didn't do any review of existing research nor did they care to.
They can't even predict how their club pass policy would get abused and never had any plan to monitor anything.

The lack of foresight and intelligent decision making is mind boggling.  

At this point, what is the purpose and utility of this league ? 

They set up a schedule that is against the best interests and health of the players, with so many games that they can't be covered by the supply of referees, with flights that have become meaningless because a Forward from a Flight 1 2010 team comes down to play flight 3 to ensure his team wins by 4 or 5 goals.


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## lafalafa (Oct 7, 2021)

Easy solution don't allow anyone to play down only same level or up.

ECNL players are potentially playing down so don't allow them.  ECRL perhaps but only on NPL or Disco teams not eligible for any other flight.

If you're on a flight 1 roster not eligible for flight 2 or 3. Same with disco or the other flights.

Get rid of "writing"  any player in on game day. Required all players be entered on the game day roster two days in advance.

Limit to two club pass players per team or something like that.

Otherwise might as well make every game pickup, who ever shows plays and don't keep standing or scores.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 7, 2021)

ECNL and Socal are different leagues in competition with each other. 

Why would Socal exclude ECNL players from playing for their teams?


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## lafalafa (Oct 7, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> ECNL and Socal are different leagues in competition with each other.
> 
> Why would Socal exclude ECNL players from playing for their teams?


There not competitors.  Both are USclub leagues and not the same level. 

Because they are playing down

ECRL perhaps but only on NPL or Disco teams not eligible for any other flight.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 7, 2021)

Not sure how current this is but explains a lot.


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## lafalafa (Oct 7, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> View attachment 11837
> 
> Not sure how current this is but explains a lot.


It's all fictitious but if you go by that just like I said ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next Level up.

Socal Discovery is a NPL so only ECRL players or those at the level should be permitted not ECNL which is the next level up above

NPL's and ECRL  have seperate leagues, playoffs, events and they don't compete verse ECNL.   Just like Socal Discovery doesn't compete with ECNL so those player shouldn't be permitted because there essential playing Down.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 7, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> It's all fictitious but if you go by that just like I said ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next Level up.
> 
> Socal Discovery is a NPL so only ECRL players or those at the level should be permitted not ECNL which is the next level up above
> 
> NPL's and ECRL  have seperate leagues, playoffs, events and they don't compete verse ECNL.   Just like Socal Discovery doesn't compete with ECNL so those player shouldn't be permitted because there essential playing Down.


If US Club Soccer maintained a database of all players it would be fairly easy to do what you're proposing. 

You'd also need an app to maintain player status, eligibility, teams/games registered for, scores, stats, etc, etc, etc.

Im going to go out on a limb and say that none (or very little of what I listed) is happening.


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## futboldad1 (Oct 7, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> It's all fictitious but if you go by that just like I said ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next Level up.
> 
> Socal Discovery is a NPL so only ECRL players or those at the level should be permitted not ECNL which is the next level up above
> 
> NPL's and ECRL  have seperate leagues, playoffs, events and they don't compete verse ECNL.   Just like Socal Discovery doesn't compete with ECNL so those player shouldn't be permitted because there essential playing Down.


Agree.....playing down that far is BS......a middle of the road SW ECNL team would maul the SW NPL teams and having ECNL players play in the SCDSL/Socal league like that makes a mockery of things and is not fair on the kids who work hard.....


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## timbuck (Oct 7, 2021)

Above it was mentioned that a team from an upper flight is potentially taking away playing time from someone on the roster.

What about the team they are playing against?  A team that properly seeded itself in F1, F2, F3 is now playing a game with a few players that are WAAAAYYYY above the level of the team they are playing against.

Players get delated because they got smoked.  Parents get pissed because they paid $2k to watch their kid get run off the pitch and aren't developing. Coaches get fired because parents are pissed.

If you want to know which clubs are most likely to engage in this kind of behavior  -  It's the same clubs that defied California's quarantine rules by scheduling undercover scrimmages, private fields and/or travelled to Arizona half a dozen times.


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## KJR (Oct 7, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> It's all fictitious but if you go by that just like I said ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next Level up.
> 
> Socal Discovery is a NPL so only ECRL players or those at the level should be permitted not ECNL which is the next level up above
> 
> NPL's and ECRL  have seperate leagues, playoffs, events and they don't compete verse ECNL.   Just like Socal Discovery doesn't compete with ECNL so those player shouldn't be permitted because there essential playing Down.


I may regret jumping in here, but "Easy solution don't allow anyone to play down only same level or up" _is_ the SOCAL policy. The point of the email is that clubs are abusing it. It's bizarre to me that clubs would stack Flight 3 teams with top flight guest players; if they're so scared of losing their local market share that they want to crush Flight 3 and win imaginary trophies then all they're doing is driving away those Flight 3 families whose kids are losing playing time. (But then maybe they deserve to be losing those families...)

I will say that, as a smaller club, the Club Pass rule has helped us fill out rosters for certain games when kids are traveling/unavailable, and I'm sure it's been useful for other clubs in similar positions. So we like the policy and hope it's followed/enforced.

I'll also say that "ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next level up" is a broad, inaccurate statement. But I'm sure ECNL appreciates it.


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## Emma (Oct 7, 2021)

futboldad1 said:


> Agree.....playing down that far is BS......a middle of the road SW ECNL team would maul the SW NPL teams and having ECNL players play in the SCDSL/Socal league like that makes a mockery of things and is not fair on the kids who work hard.....


I'm gonna go with the TOP ECNL teams can beat MOST, not all, NPL teams but middle of the road and lower ECNL teams could probably save some money and play NPL/Discovery or lower.


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## lafalafa (Oct 7, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> If US Club Soccer maintained a database of all players it would be fairly easy to do what you're proposing.
> 
> You'd also need an app to maintain player status, eligibility, teams/games registered for, scores, stats, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> Im going to go out on a limb and say that none (or very little of what I listed) is happening.


Not really it's pretty simple already have that info on the cards, rosters, game day info, etc..

ECxx info is available to anybody who manages a team and they can maintain roster rules so why can't SoCal?



KJR said:


> I may regret jumping in here, but "Easy solution don't allow anyone to play down only same level or up" _is_ the SOCAL policy. The point of the email is that clubs are abusing it. It's bizarre to me that clubs would stack Flight 3 teams with top flight guest players; if they're so scared of losing their local market share that they want to crush Flight 3 and win imaginary trophies then all they're doing is driving away those Flight 3 families whose kids are losing playing time. (But then maybe they deserve to be losing those families...)
> 
> I will say that, as a smaller club, the Club Pass rule has helped us fill out rosters for certain games when kids are traveling/unavailable, and I'm sure it's been useful for other clubs in similar positions. So we like the policy and hope it's followed/enforced.
> 
> I'll also say that "ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next level up" is a broad, inaccurate statement. But I'm sure ECNL appreciates it.


Not my definition it's from USclub and they provide those charts, you can disagree all you want but there the sanctioning body for both leagues.

Well it's not a policy if you're not enforcing it, that's called suggestions.

Club pass is fine,. CSL coast does it the correct way and doesn't seem to have the same problems or grievances so obviously something's need to change and the current "honor" system is not working all that well.


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## futboldad1 (Oct 7, 2021)

Emma said:


> I'm gonna go with the TOP ECNL teams can beat MOST, not all, NPL teams but middle of the road and lower ECNL teams could probably save some money and play NPL/Discovery or lower.


LOL I think you'd be in for a reality check......scrimmages between ECNL teams and Discovery teams this past summer were anywhere from 5 zero to too many goals to count and this is across various clubs and age groups......maybe Sharks are the exception but ECNL teams have way too much talent for 99% of the teams not in the ecnl.....I get that you don't like the ECNL but its a dead horse at this point 

But to follow up on your point of top ecnl teams can only beat most......what SW NPL team at U15 and older do you think could give Slammers Koge or Surf any kind of a game?


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## timbuck (Oct 7, 2021)

KJR said:


> I may regret jumping in here, but "Easy solution *don't allow anyone to play down only same level or up" is the SOCAL policy*. The point of the email is that clubs are abusing it. It's bizarre to me that clubs would stack Flight 3 teams with top flight guest players; if they're so scared of losing their local market share that they want to crush Flight 3 and win imaginary trophies then all they're doing is driving away those Flight 3 families whose kids are losing playing time. (But then maybe they deserve to be losing those families...)
> 
> I will say that, as a smaller club, the Club Pass rule has helped us fill out rosters for certain games when kids are traveling/unavailable, and I'm sure it's been useful for other clubs in similar positions. So we like the policy and hope it's followed/enforced.
> 
> I'll also say that "ECRL and NPL are equivalent and ECNL is the next level up" is a broad, inaccurate statement. But I'm sure ECNL appreciates it.


This is the policy from the SoCal Handbook.  Players can play up or down.

_1.4 - Club Pass Rule Each US Club Soccer Player pass can be used for any age-appropriate team in the issuing Club. Thus, Players have the ability to move up and down within their Club, giving individual teams the ability to make changes, game to game due to illness, injury, vacation, or other conflicts. Limitations apply in State Cup and NPL - leagues where Players cannot play on two teams. It is considered unethical for teams to move Players to teams in a lower-level division within the same Club for the purpose of creating a competitive advantage. *While this is not a violation of the club-pass rule, any team club passing players to create a competitive advantage will be in violation of the Spirit of the Game*. 

For SOCAL league play, players may play in no more than 2 games in one-day_

The highlighted part is the loophole.  Clubs are going to exploit this due to the way the weak policy is written.


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## lafalafa (Oct 7, 2021)

timbuck said:


> This is the policy from the SoCal Handbook.  Players can play up or down.
> 
> _1.4 - Club Pass Rule Each US Club Soccer Player pass can be used for any age-appropriate team in the issuing Club. Thus, Players have the ability to move up and down within their Club, giving individual teams the ability to make changes, game to game due to illness, injury, vacation, or other conflicts. Limitations apply in State Cup and NPL - leagues where Players cannot play on two teams. It is considered unethical for teams to move Players to teams in a lower-level division within the same Club for the purpose of creating a competitive advantage. *While this is not a violation of the club-pass rule, any team club passing players to create a competitive advantage will be in violation of the Spirit of the Game*.
> 
> ...


_It is considered unethical for teams to move Players to teams in a lower-level division within the same Club for the purpose of creating a competitive advantage._

Easy correct the oversite like other leagues have done and not allow playing down or set some limits or better controls.

Nobody is keeping track of ethics or doing anything about them so what's the point in that statement?


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## D8958 (Oct 7, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> _It is considered unethical for teams to move Players to teams in a lower-level division within the same Club for the purpose of creating a competitive advantage._
> 
> Easy correct the oversite like other leagues have done and not allow playing down or set some limits or better controls.
> 
> Nobody is keeping track of ethics or doing anything about them so what's the point in that statement?


Well I guess they tried, I mean it is “a very strongly worded press statement”.


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## KJR (Oct 7, 2021)

timbuck said:


> This is the policy from the SoCal Handbook.  Players can play up or down.
> 
> _1.4 - Club Pass Rule Each US Club Soccer Player pass can be used for any age-appropriate team in the issuing Club. Thus, Players have the ability to move up and down within their Club, giving individual teams the ability to make changes, game to game due to illness, injury, vacation, or other conflicts. Limitations apply in State Cup and NPL - leagues where Players cannot play on two teams. It is considered unethical for teams to move Players to teams in a lower-level division within the same Club for the purpose of creating a competitive advantage. *While this is not a violation of the club-pass rule, any team club passing players to create a competitive advantage will be in violation of the Spirit of the Game*.
> 
> ...


I knew I'd regret jumping in. My fault -- I confused the league Club Pass rule with the State Cup one, which is "Players can play on their existing team for State Cup AND they can be rostered to another State Cup team from your club but ONLY BY PLAYING UP. Players can not roster to a second team with a sideways move, meaning they can not play for a younger team or a team in their own birth year." Which seems closer to the intention of club passing players. Anyway, I agree that SOCAL was perhaps naive to leave it up to individual club/team ethics.


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## Emma (Oct 7, 2021)

futboldad1 said:


> LOL I think you'd be in for a reality check......scrimmages between ECNL teams and Discovery teams this past summer were anywhere from 5 zero to too many goals to count and this is across various clubs and age groups......maybe Sharks are the exception but ECNL teams have way too much talent for 99% of the teams not in the ecnl.....I get that you don't like the ECNL but its a dead horse at this point
> 
> But to follow up on your point of top ecnl teams can only beat most......what SW NPL team at U15 and older do you think could give Slammers Koge or Surf any kind of a game?


Surf and KOGE beats most ECNL teams by 4-5 goals at least, so very comparable with the


futboldad1 said:


> LOL I think you'd be in for a reality check......scrimmages between ECNL teams and Discovery teams this past summer were anywhere from 5 zero to too many goals to count and this is across various clubs and age groups......maybe Sharks are the exception but ECNL teams have way too much talent for 99% of the teams not in the ecnl.....I get that you don't like the ECNL but its a dead horse at this point
> 
> But to follow up on your point of top ecnl teams can only beat most......what SW NPL team at U15 and older do you think could give Slammers Koge or Surf any kind of a game?


I believe there were definitely a few teams in the ECNL 05 groupings, boys and girls that lost a few games and were flighted in lower brackets, unless it was an "ecnl" bracket.  Your girl's Surf, KOGE, Beach and Legends are generally top teams but Strikers, Arsenal, Rebels, Sharks, Heat, AZ Arsenal, other AZ teams, Breakers, and even Eagles definitely has a few age group teams that would be more competitive in the Discovery bracket.  On the boys side, a few of the top ECNL teams are great but the mid and lower may not even be competitive against some of the NPL teams.

Tudela, Laguna United and So Cal Elite, and East County Surf plus few more I'm not mentioning are a few non ECNL clubs that could compete with those lower end ECNL.  

But this is an age old argument and isn't relevant to this thread.

I do agree that sending top ECNL players to discovery level is terrible if it's taking play time.  Send your ECRL or ECNL bench players if the Discovery team has less than 15 players for the game.


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## Woodwork (Oct 7, 2021)

I knew an SCDSL team at a mega club that had dual rostered ECNL players on a flight 2 team.  The excuse was they needed more players, which is true.  But, alternatives to this include recruiting lower level players instead of higher double-committed ones or disbanding your team and letting them play on other teams that need them.  Heaven forbid.


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## lafalafa (Oct 7, 2021)

Woodwork said:


> I knew an SCDSL team at a mega club that had dual rostered ECNL players on a flight 2 team.  The excuse was they needed more players, which is true.  But, alternatives to this include recruiting lower level players instead of higher double-committed ones or disbanding your team and letting them play on other teams that need them.  Heaven forbid.


Over booking teams in a league when you don't have the players to fill them is a rather poor and sloppy excuse to play players down several levels.

Taking or promoting the so called lower level players would have been the ethical and likely more beneficial thing to do long term for more players.


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## Eagle33 (Oct 8, 2021)

SoCal created this problem by allowing players to play 2 game in a day. Go back to what it was and problem is solved.


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## foreveryoung (Oct 8, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Otherwise might as well make every game pickup, who ever shows plays and don't keep standing or scores.


That's an interesting idea and made me think if that would actually be better for the players than the options we currently have.


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## lafalafa (Oct 8, 2021)

foreveryoung said:


> That's an interesting idea and made me think if that would actually be better for the players than the options we currently have.


Bring your player card and you're in Sunday's....

Can make it fun and more interesting, have games run every 1hr,: every one plays kind of games.  1-2 subs but you ask or sub yourself type deal.  Games don't need to be full 90 when everyone is playing 60 minutes would due.

Can play with friends for other clubs, siblings, school mates just need a card or get on site for $5.

Personally my kids just wanted to play, they rarely  carried about their opponents, players on some other teams unless there was something at stake like a championship.  The times they did discuss  mostly was about finding better competition or  playing age up.


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## Woodwork (Oct 8, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Over booking teams in a league when you don't have the players to fill them is a rather poor and sloppy excuse to play players down several levels.
> 
> Taking or promoting the so called lower level players would have been the ethical and likely more beneficial thing to do long term for more players.


With extremely rare exceptions, unless you are an ECNL team with a winning record, you need to train girls up.  You need to play your bench about half of every game, including tough ones, to get them ready to start someday, even if it means losing some games. Also, allow them to make mistakes without repercussion to keep their confidence up.

Top teams aside, I would encourage any player on a team where this doesn't happen to start looking for a new team now.  This kind of team isn't going to be there in a year anyway.


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## timbuck (Oct 9, 2021)

I can confirm that at least 1 team did not read or comprehend the email that was sent out.


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## Dirtnap (Oct 11, 2021)

timbuck said:


> I can confirm that at least 1 team did not read or comprehend the email that was sent out.


 We have had 2 so far. they even told us they had 4 Discovery guests. Then again we only have had a couple of refs even checking rosters.


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## lafalafa (Oct 11, 2021)

Dirtnap said:


> We have had 2 so far. they even told us they had 4 Discovery guests. Then again we only have had a couple of refs even checking rosters.


Limit to 2 players playing down ( guests)  and one game a day would curtail this activity.

Referees not going to check that closely so that why closing the roster the day before online  and not allowing write-ins like what ECNL does is likely the better choice.

All this was/is the product of fast & loose suggestions rather than rules by the league and of course the clubs wanted that so they can play shell games with teams.

Yes there are times when a team could be short and need to guest pass but that's fine just make sure it's the same level or above there passing to not below. CSL does this and you don't hear the same time of problems they current socal level set creates.


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## lafalafa (Oct 11, 2021)

Dirtnap said:


> We have had 2 so far. they even told us they had 4 Discovery guests. Then again we only have had a couple of refs even checking rosters.


Limit to 2 players playing down ( guests)  and one game a day would curtail this activity.

Referees not going to check that closely so that why closing the roster the day before online  and not allowing write-ins like what ECNL does is the better choice.

All this was/is the product of fast & loose suggestions rather than rules by the league and of course the clubs wanted that so they can play shell games with teams.

Yes there are times when a team could be short and need to guest pass but that's fine just make sure it's the same level or above there passing to not below. CSL does this and you don't hear the same time of problems the current socal level set creates.  

Clean up the problem or every week clubs will exploit the strongly worded suggestions that have zero ramifications.


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## Emma (Oct 11, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Limit to 2 players playing down ( guests)  and one game a day would curtail this activity.
> 
> Referees not going to check that closely so that why closing the roster the day before online  and not allowing write-ins like what ECNL does is the better choice.
> 
> ...


While I agree with all your sentiments, the clean up should happen next year.  Give clubs fair warning and do it next year.  This year is tough with the ref shortages and player shortages/uncertainties.  This is a year of adjustments for everyone at work, at school and club soccer. This year we get to find out who the jerk coaches are.


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## timbuck (Oct 11, 2021)

Dirtnap said:


> We have had 2 so far. they even told us they had 4 Discovery guests. Then again we only have had a couple of refs even checking rosters.


6 Players on the bench.  1 write in.  From their ECNL-RL team.  Played the whole game.  Scored 2 goals. 2-2 tie.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 11, 2021)

All this could be solved if there was an App that Refs could look at to confirm player roster status before games.

Over time it would be easy to see who is scamming the system with players playing down, etc.


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## lafalafa (Oct 11, 2021)

timbuck said:


> 6 Players on the bench.  1 write in.  From their ECNL-RL team.  Played the whole game.  Scored 2 goals. 2-2 tie.


With 6 on the bench bringing another player is clearly competitive advantage but since that was  ECRL assuming that's what their card said at least it appears the player wasn't necessary playing down if this was vs. Discovery NPL team?


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 11, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> All this could be solved if there was an App that Refs could look at to confirm player roster status before games.
> 
> Over time it would be easy to see who is scamming the system with players playing down, etc.


Another thing refs could do it take a pic of each player when checking in for the game and associate it with rostered players.

Again, over time it will look weird when one kid looks like 3 different players throughout the season.

No need for the Refs to stop the game from happening. Records will be there if the league wants to address.


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## timbuck (Oct 11, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> With 6 on the bench bringing another player is clearly competitive advantage but since that was  ECRL assuming that's what their card said at least it appears the player wasn't necessary playing down if this was vs. Discovery NPL team?


Flight 1 team.  Not Discovery.


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## lafalafa (Oct 11, 2021)

timbuck said:


> Flight 1 team.  Not Discovery.


Yeah that's clearly playing down.

Even if you just limited to socal league carded player that would be better but to bring in or allow outside guest(s) to play down that's competitive advantage 100% with 6 bench players. Mutiple games a day allowance doesn't help either.


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## D8958 (Oct 11, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> All this could be solved if there was an App that Refs could look at to confirm player roster status before games.
> 
> Over time it would be easy to see who is scamming the system with players playing down, etc.


You do realize you are talking about IT and Socal Soccer League, right ?

This is a league that increases their team count and clearly doesn't upgrade their Database capabilities sufficiently.
You have to turn off access to the site for a section of it so the site will run correctly at the start of the season so teams can print out match reports?
They are relying on Demosphere completely and have no idea about IT. 

Demosphere clearly not well run.
Demosphere can see the number of users being added and their is no excuse for user overload to bring down a system unless you have designed something that is very flawed from the beginning, which is entirely possible.

While we are talking about IT and Soccer leagues and governing entities, we might as well throw in Presidio and Cal South.

The thought process that went through the minds of the Presidio leadership as they let that site continue to exist in its current state, its the same overriding issue for why all the clubs left.

Cal South reworks their website in an apparent attempt to improve the look and ease of use. Now you have a site that has very little dynamic database content on it that runs slower than molasses and ease of use factor marginally better. For as little as that site does, it should run way faster.

These leagues are either not seeking IT consultant advice or choosing some really inept professionals to make their web decisions.
Cost isn't a factor on being guided in the right direction. The direction you choose can be expensive, but So Cal and Cal South spend money and they are getting ripped off for what they are getting.

What you are suggesting is absolutely where roster verification needs to go.
But the clubs are the ones that chose this current status.

Clubs taking the money, throwing the kids and families under the bus. Socal Soccer League acting as intermediary for the process.


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## Carlsbad7 (Oct 11, 2021)

D8958 said:


> You do realize you are talking about IT and Socal Soccer League, right ?
> 
> This is a league that increases their team count and clearly doesn't upgrade their Database capabilities sufficiently.
> You have to turn off access to the site for a section of it so the site will run correctly at the start of the season so teams can print out match reports?
> ...


It's good that others see the disconnect between tech and soccer leagues.

As you said the people in charge probably like the disorganization because it somehow benefits them.

The problem is without rules + enforcement it just ends up being never-ending complaint threads like this one + clubs bending the rules for wins.


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## espola (Oct 11, 2021)

D8958 said:


> You do realize you are talking about IT and Socal Soccer League, right ?
> 
> This is a league that increases their team count and clearly doesn't upgrade their Database capabilities sufficiently.
> You have to turn off access to the site for a section of it so the site will run correctly at the start of the season so teams can print out match reports?
> ...


Back in the Spring, Presidio Board was discussing what to do with the left-over resources since it appeared there would be no fall gaming schedule for the league.



			http://presidiosoccer.com/documents/minutes/general_minutes/bodm_20210507.pdf
		


Despite that, there are still a small number of clubs participating --

https://2021leaguepages.affinitysoccer.com/Tour/public/info/accepted_list.asp?sessionguid=&Tournamentguid={6E28D5F1-C512-4EBB-8D72-CE44E46FE469}

Presidio had a big challenge to its existence back in 2004-5 when the league's Secretary resigned and deleted all the schedule information on his way out, all because the league had asked him to improve the appearance of the website from text-only to a more modern look.  I heard from someone at a monthly meeting that it was because he was being paid a modest sum to maintain the old website, which included updating standings for hundreds of games each week and the new system would be automatically updated and bypass his touch.

I can no longer find the Cal South monthly BOD meeting minutes on their website, so I have no idea what is going on there.


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## lafalafa (Oct 11, 2021)

espola said:


> Back in the Spring, Presidio Board was discussing what to do with the left-over resources since it appeared there would be no fall gaming schedule for the league.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well thought CS is creating a new league

*" Cal South is creating a new league in the San Diego area...And we want you to help us name it!
Winning entry wins $500 worth of Cal South-branded Nike gear!*
A new Cal South gaming circuit league will begin play in and around the San Diego area starting in the fall of 2022. The league will be open to all boys' and girls' teams in the 8U to 19U age groups.

To get this new league off the ground, we need your help in giving it a great name!

The creator of the winning entry will receive $500 worth of Cal South-branded Nike gear. In the event that two or more people give us the same name for the new league, the winner will be the one whose entry we received first"

Any ideas?


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## espola (Oct 11, 2021)

lafalafa said:


> Well thought CS is creating a new league
> 
> *" Cal South is creating a new league in the San Diego area...And we want you to help us name it!
> Winning entry wins $500 worth of Cal South-branded Nike gear!*
> ...


I think Bob Turner should anonymously submit about 100 entries.


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## sascbreakaway83 (Nov 8, 2021)

Heard a parent/ex con from Strikers FC LA B09 pulled out a bat at silverlakes lol. I doubt the league will do anything about it. Incidents like this and with scheduling issues, this league is becoming a joke. No offense SoCal lovers.


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## SoccerFan4Life (Nov 8, 2021)

sascbreakaway83 said:


> Heard a parent/ex con from Strikers FC LA B09 pulled out a bat at silverlakes lol. I doubt the league will do anything about it. Incidents like this and with scheduling issues, this league is becoming a joke. No offense SoCal lovers.


It’s been a few years since we had a chance to play in state cup.  Watching 60+ girls 09  teams playing in Galway downs was very cool.   I don’t know what the calsouth state cup is going to look like but I doubt that it will be anything near as good.


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## Soccer Dad & Ref (Nov 22, 2021)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Another thing refs could do it take a pic of each player when checking in for the game and associate it with rostered players.
> 
> Again, over time it will look weird when one kid looks like 3 different players throughout the season.
> 
> No need for the Refs to stop the game from happening. Records will be there if the league wants to address.


Why not have the managers from the opposite teams check the teams in together?  If there are concerns, they note it with a picture of the possible offending player, and turn it into the League.  Referee should not have to be a part of this, absolutely ridiculous to think a referee should spend time squinting at the 10-year-old pictures of the kids and figuring out if that is still them.  

Managers sign the rosters before the games, and if they are caught afterwards having lied, some sort of repercussion...


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## Curious (Nov 23, 2021)

It seems that this rule of allowing players to play down is advantageous for only the larger clubs.  A small club was first in their Europa flight one bracket until their team played a larger club that had 5 EC** players play with them.  The following weekend the same thing happened to another of that club’s top teams when 4 EC** players were brought down to play against them in Flight 1.  I was told when this same team had injuries and needed extra players they had to borrow from a team two years younger, as the club had no other teams of that age and only one team a year below which had a game time conflict.   So large clubs are bringing down players from several levels higher even when a team already has subs, but the small club needs to bring in players two years younger just to have 11 on the field, hmm I’d say the league standings are next to worthless under these circumstance.  I’m sure everyone could have guessed this is what would happen with this ridiculous rule.


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