# Demosphere vs. Got Soccer for tournament management



## jrcaesar (Dec 13, 2016)

Anyone here have experience using both sites to manage a tournament who would recommend one over the other? Trying to assess for our board whether to stick with one or switch to the other as we plan for 2017's tourney. I see most teams register with GotSoccer eventually. Thanks in advance!


----------



## mirage (Dec 14, 2016)

I don't have a personal experience hosting a tournament on either but what I do know is that many clubs move over to gotsoccer for one simple reason - more tournament points for the tournament.  Most teams want to move up the rankings....

Clearly, the motivation is to attract more teams and increase the stature of the event = $$$.

Like many things in life, the choice is more of a function of ROI.


----------



## madcow (Dec 14, 2016)

I haven't hosted a tournament either, but as a manager, I prefer to check my team in with Gotsoccer. I find the website easier to navigate as well. Now, I am old school and have used GS for years, so take that for what its worth...


----------



## soccerobserver (Dec 14, 2016)

JRC, the first question parents ask me is "How many gotsoccer points will we get from this tournament if we win???...."


----------



## CaliKlines (Dec 14, 2016)

SoccerO, parents really still pay attention to GotSoccer? Why anyone pays attention to GotSoccer rankings is a mystery to me....the truest and most accurate rankings that don't require any type of tournament participation can be found at Youth Soccer Rankings.

http://youthsoccerrankings.us/


----------



## madcow (Dec 14, 2016)

CaliKlines said:


> SoccerO, parents really still pay attention to GotSoccer? Why anyone pays attention to GotSoccer rankings is a mystery to me....the truest and most accurate rankings that don't require any type of tournament participation can be found at Youth Soccer Rankings.
> 
> http://youthsoccerrankings.us/


While I agree YSR are based on wins and not just tournament wins, and I will agree they/ he does a pretty good job. But, the most accurate? GS never mixed my team up with another team or another age. Also, tournaments that use GS, don't use YSR's rankings. While some parents sit back and say we are truly ranked here because YSR says so, they may still miss out on tournaments that don't use YSR. So, until tournaments start using YSR, there is still some value in GS whether you want to believe it or not.


----------



## outside! (Dec 14, 2016)

CaliKlines said:


> SoccerO, parents really still pay attention to GotSoccer? Why anyone pays attention to GotSoccer rankings is a mystery to me....the truest and most accurate rankings that don't require any type of tournament participation can be found at Youth Soccer Rankings.
> 
> http://youthsoccerrankings.us/


But GotSoccer now has Global rankings!


----------



## soccerobserver (Dec 14, 2016)

CaliKlines said:


> SoccerO, parents really still pay attention to GotSoccer? Why anyone pays attention to GotSoccer rankings is a mystery to me....the truest and most accurate rankings that don't require any type of tournament participation can be found at Youth Soccer Rankings.
> 
> http://youthsoccerrankings.us/


CaliK I agree with you, however, on the Santa Monica Pier a journalist walked into a fish bait and tackle store and saw a container of gross looking green and orange fake rubber worms...the journalist asked the store owner " fish actually like these things?" and the owner replied "no, but the customers think the fish do!"... they want the gotsoccer ranking to catch up with the YSR if YSR is higher...but more seriously, as MCow pointed out tournaments use GS to place teams in tournaments so in that sense GS has more "currency" with TD's...


----------



## MakeAPlay (Dec 14, 2016)

CaliKlines said:


> SoccerO, parents really still pay attention to GotSoccer? Why anyone pays attention to GotSoccer rankings is a mystery to me....the truest and most accurate rankings that don't require any type of tournament participation can be found at Youth Soccer Rankings.
> 
> http://youthsoccerrankings.us/


Let me guess.  Legends is ranked highly on this website so they have got to be the MOST accurate rankings.  At least you are consistent.


----------



## jrcaesar (Dec 14, 2016)

soccerobserver said:


> JRC, the first question parents ask me is "How many gotsoccer points will we get from this tournament if we win???...."


This is a good point.   Also seems like if you're already on GotSoccer, it's easier to port over information. Not sure how our board chooses what they choose though.


----------



## madcow (Dec 14, 2016)

jrcaesar said:


> Not sure how our board chooses what they choose though.


$$$
I imagine you have to pay to have either company host your tournament. If I were a small tournament, I'm not sure its worth it if GS is more expensive.


----------



## CaliKlines (Dec 14, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> Let me guess.  Legends is ranked highly on this website so they have got to be the MOST accurate rankings.


Legends is ranked highly on EVERY website Mappie...you know that. And GotSoccer doesn't have many ECNL teams listed at the top of the rankings. I guess you and MadCow believe that GotSoccer has the most accurate rankings?


----------



## CaliKlines (Dec 14, 2016)

madcow said:


> While I agree YSR are based on wins and not just tournament wins, and I will agree they/ he does a pretty good job. But, the most accurate? GS never mixed my team up with another team or another age. Also, tournaments that use GS, don't use YSR's rankings. While some parents sit back and say we are truly ranked here because YSR says so, they may still miss out on tournaments that don't use YSR. So, until tournaments start using YSR, there is still some value in GS whether you want to believe it or not.


Never said there wasn't any value, nor did I indicate that mistakes aren't made. But YSR provides rankings that are the MOST accurate. Do you believe otherwise?


----------



## outside! (Dec 14, 2016)

I think YSR's ranking model should supply the best results over the long term. YSR's complete reset a few months ago due to the age group change means that their rankings will need one year's worth of data to approach accuracy. When YSR first came back up after the reset, ECNL teams occupied most of the top spots, but with no data to support that since at that time most ECNL teams had not played many non-ECNL teams after the reset. Assuming ECNL teams are probably the best teams is not a bad assumption, but it has enough exceptions to make the first few months of ratings problematic. YSR seems to also have more errors that GotSoccer. As an example, Surf's G99 ECNL team is currently ranked at #7, while at the same time Surf's website shows that they don't even have a G99 ECNL team. There is a 99/98 Combo team, but that team should be listed under G98.


----------



## CaliKlines (Dec 14, 2016)

outside! said:


> I think YSR's ranking model should supply the best results over the long term. YSR's complete reset a few months ago due to the age group change means that their rankings will need one year's worth of data to approach accuracy. When YSR first came back up after the reset, ECNL teams occupied most of the top spots, but with no data to support that since at that time most ECNL teams had not played many non-ECNL teams after the reset. Assuming ECNL teams are probably the best teams is not a bad assumption, but it has enough exceptions to make the first few months of ratings problematic. YSR seems to also have more errors that GotSoccer. As an example, Surf's G99 ECNL team is currently ranked at #7, while at the same time Surf's website shows that they don't even have a G99 ECNL team. There is a 99/98 Combo team, but that team should be listed under G98.


If you want errors, here are the top CA teams, in order, according to GotSoccer...

 21641 *LA GALAXY SAN DIEGO ELITE 99 / DRUMMOND*




More Info *CAS*: 1  *R4*: 1  17-5-2 70.8%
 16983 *EASTSIDE FC EFC G99 RED*








More Info *WA*: 1  *R4*: 2  7-2-2 63.6%
 16790 *SANTA CLARA SPORTING 99G GREEN*




More Info *CAN*: 1  *R4*: 3  31-12-11 57.4%
 16449 *PALO ALTO SC 99G BLUE*




More Info *CAN*: 2  *R4*: 4  31-7-12 62.0%
 15409 *PSV UNION FC 98/99G* More Info *CAN*: 3  *R4*: 5  16-2-12 53.3%
 15158 *DAVIS LEGACY 99 RED* More Info *CAN*: 4  *R4*: 6  30-6-9 66.7%
 13913 *LA ROCA FC LA ROCA PREMIER 99 PO*












More Info *UT*: 1  *R4*: 7  9-1-3 69.2%
 13284 *LEGENDS FC 99*








More Info *CAS*: 2  *R4*: 8  4-0-2 66.7%
 12750 *CV CROSSFIRE 99G RED*




More Info *CAN*: 5  *R4*: 9  27-13-19 45.8%
 12620 *LA PREMIER FC LAPFC G99 RAIVES*




More Info *CAS*: 3  *R4*: 10  18-7-1 69.2%
 12092 *ALBION SC G99 ACADEMY*




More Info *CAS*: 4  *R4*: 11  10-9-7 38.5%
 11915 *CALIFORNIA MAGIC CAL MAGIC 99G* More Info *CAN*: 6  *R4*: 12  28-1-10 71.8%

And GotSoccer didn't do a reset. This is their own data. Do you think these are the top 12 teams in CA?

 Mark from YSR stopped providing the rankings to let the dust settle from the age change, in order to collect more data and be more accurate. Surf has 2 different team links to the same team (U18 and Composite U18/19). Is that YSR's mistake or Surf's? I have heard of teams that have been long since abandoned that still have GotSoccer rankings...both make mistakes, but YSR is more accurate now and in the future.


----------



## MakeAPlay (Dec 14, 2016)

CaliKlines said:


> If you want errors, here are the top CA teams, in order, according to GotSoccer...
> 
> 21641 *LA GALAXY SAN DIEGO ELITE 99 / DRUMMOND*
> 
> ...


Are you still concerned with rankings?  I would focus on your player she is going to a resurgent team in an excellent conference.

http://gopack.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc


----------



## MakeAPlay (Dec 14, 2016)

CaliKlines said:


> Never said there wasn't any value, nor did I indicate that mistakes aren't made. But YSR provides rankings that are the MOST accurate. Do you believe otherwise?


No I don't really believe in club rankings.  There are too many teams spread out over too great a distance.  I would just go with whoever wins the ECNL championship as the top team.


----------



## CaliKlines (Dec 14, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> Are you still concerned with rankings?  I would focus on your player she is going to a resurgent team in an excellent conference.
> 
> http://gopack.com/roster.aspx?path=wsoc


Uh, I know that? I was trying to respond to jrcaesar, who was asking the question about GotSoccer. Just trying to let him know, in my opinion, that GotSoccer is worthless, except in SoccerO's hilarious fishing analogy.


----------



## CaliKlines (Dec 14, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> No I don't really believe in club rankings.  There are too many teams spread out over too great a distance.


These aren't club rankings. These are team rankings, and you can drill down to as local as you want to go.



MakeAPlay said:


> I would just go with whoever wins the ECNL championship as the top team.


So then, since Youth Soccer Rankings has the ECNL teams listed so highly, and GotSoccer doesn't, then you must surely agree with me that YSR provides the most accurate team rankings, right?


----------



## MakeAPlay (Dec 14, 2016)

CaliKlines said:


> These aren't club rankings. These are team rankings, and you can drill down to as local as you want to go.
> 
> 
> 
> So then, since Youth Soccer Rankings has the ECNL teams listed so highly, and GotSoccer doesn't, then you must surely agree with me that YSR provides the most accurate team rankings, right?


I never said that I disagreed with you.  YSR sounds like one man's opinion.  Anything that is subjective even if accurate is not reproducible.  Gotsoccer has a non opinion based model even if it is inaccurate.  Does YSR have a published methodology or is it just his "gut."  Without actually seeing all of the teams in the country play it's a herculean task at best to come up with anything accurate.

With all that being said.  I hate Gotsoccer.


----------



## CaliKlines (Dec 14, 2016)

MakeAPlay said:


> YSR sounds like one man's opinion. Anything that is subjective even if accurate is not reproducible.  Gotsoccer has a non opinion based model even if it is inaccurate.  Does YSR have a published methodology or is it just his "gut."  Without actually seeing all of the teams in the country play it's a herculean task at best to come up with anything accurate.


It is far from one man's opinion...it is a fact-based and results-based predictive ranking. It is not perfect, but it is the most accurate.

*COMPARE RANKINGS*
A ranking systems' accuracy is measured by its "Predictive Power" (how often a higher ranked team beats a lower ranked team). A Predictive Power of 0% is equivalent to flipping a coin. 100% means the rankings always predict the result of a game (impossible given the random nature of the sport). Some ranking systems only rank the top 25 teams in each age group. That is not helpful if you are trying to flight a tournament. "Coverage" is the fraction of all games where both teams are ranked by the ranking system. Here is how the online ranking systems compare today:

*ABOUT*
This site ranks 79,000 youth soccer teams in the USA based upon the results of 245,000 games played since August 1st 2016. The results come directly from more than 350 different tournament or league websites and are the most accurate and complete set used by any ranking system. The rankings are based solely on team results. Every goal in every game is considered when calculating the ranking of each team. Each team is assigned a score that is measured in goals. To predict the goal difference when two teams play each other simply subtract the score of one team from the score of the other. For example, if Denver Rovers (35.6) plays Parker Stars (33.5) then you can expect Denver Rovers to win by about 2 goals. This works across age groups and even when girls play boys!

The rankings are recalculated almost every day, so please check back often. Teams are only listed if they have played 10 games. Sometimes games are split between duplicate teams. I try to fix as many of those as possible. If you spot anything that looks wrong please drill into the team details and click "Report Errors" (at the top right of the screen).


----------



## rainbow_unicorn (Dec 14, 2016)

GS rankings are meaningless since they only track a subset of tournaments.  However, I do like GS over demosphere since GS shows tournament history of teams.


----------



## GunninGopher (Dec 14, 2016)

I think most of the Youth Soccer Ranking mistakes are due to managers inconsistently naming teams in tournaments. If they stuck to the same team name for both league and tournaments, there would be fewer problems. Some tournaments mess the names up themselves by bastardizing and combining application entries. It isn't always clear what will end up as the team name sometimes.

The 1 year I managed a team I was told to use _*Club *Region *Year *Team *Coach*_. For example:
*Jumpers FC *Calveras *G01 *Green *Twain
*
Got Soccer shouldn't refer to the score as Rankings. The score is actually a STANDING. That being said, it is nice for tournaments because the team is probably in their system.


----------

