# Advice on going to EA league



## aong cangkol (Dec 19, 2022)

Need advice...Our team is maybe top 2 or 3 in Socal League Flight 2. The coach will move the team to EA league next year, selling it as better competition....etc..
I don't think it makes sense, why not flight 1? Some parents were sold, some hesitant but afraid to pull their kids.
I cannot believe I have to go through painful exercise finding another team/coach/club. I suspect the club has agreement with the EA league? maybe someone can explain to me.  Should I really stay with the club? It is for younger age group 11 years old. Maybe Socal league refuse to move us to Flight 1? 
I really cannot understand what is the purpose of moving to another league.


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## RandomSoccerFan (Dec 20, 2022)

Can't speak to the specific motivations for the coach or the club.  But just by looking at Soccer Rankings, if you look at the 2012's, 5 of the top 10 teams are in EA, including the top 3.  If you look at the 2011's, 6 of the top 10 (and 3 of the top 5) are in EA.

2012:  

2011:


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## TheMountie (Dec 20, 2022)

EA also has an EA2 league which (correct me if I'm wrong) exclusively for lower flight teams, currently there's 11 teams registered for this season (SoCal Elite, Albion, Oaks FC, LAUFA,  LA Surf, FCGS, Mission Viejo, FRAM, Sand and Surf and Rush) if your club is not one of those, they'll definitely add more closer to the start of next season. Here's a link for further context EA2 - Elite Academy League


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## Carlsbad7 (Dec 20, 2022)

Cant say anything about the level of competition.

It does look like all games are local LA with one in Bakersfield. Not having to drive 5+ hours (each way) for league games is nice


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## Grace T. (Dec 20, 2022)

aong cangkol said:


> Need advice...Our team is maybe top 2 or 3 in Socal League Flight 2. The coach will move the team to EA league next year, selling it as better competition....etc..
> I don't think it makes sense, why not flight 1? Some parents were sold, some hesitant but afraid to pull their kids.
> I cannot believe I have to go through painful exercise finding another team/coach/club. I suspect the club has agreement with the EA league? maybe someone can explain to me.  Should I really stay with the club? It is for younger age group 11 years old. Maybe Socal league refuse to move us to Flight 1?
> I really cannot understand what is the purpose of moving to another league.


a. like MLS Next, the club not the team joins EA.  Your coach if you are the top team in the age group for the club (or if you are the second team and the top team is in or joining MLS Next, though I think your age group might be a little young if they are rising 11s) he doesn't have a choice since they are almost always required to field a team for every age group
b. if the team is not up to snuff, get ready for cuts.  The EA name will attract a higher quality player particularly at that age since looking to play MLS Next.  Your team as it exists now no longer exists if you are flight 2.  The parents afraid to pull their kids might find they don't have a choice.  Sorry to say but particularly if you are playing EA1, your team is effectively over.
c. which is why it's very important to know if you are going to be EA or EA2.  If EA, I believe in your age group you might still be up against the MLS academy teams if you are rising 11s.  Get ready for a pounding.  If it's EA2 the quality varies year to year and as they are growing EA2 the competition might be a very mixed bag.  There may very well be some blow outs and there might very well be some you blow out....for some of the larger clubs EA2 is for the 3rd teams and there are also clubs that can't just put together an effective squad in that age group.


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## aong cangkol (Dec 20, 2022)

RandomSoccerFan said:


> Can't speak to the specific motivations for the coach or the club.  But just by looking at Soccer Rankings, if you look at the 2012's, 5 of the top 10 teams are in EA, including the top 3.  If you look at the 2011's, 6 of the top 10 (and 3 of the top 5) are in EA.
> 
> 2012:  View attachment 15240
> 
> 2011:  View attachment 15241


So it is a very competitive league. Must be an EA2 then.


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## Jamisfoes (Dec 20, 2022)

Speaking of socal flight 1, could someone in the know comment on how a team get to play in flight 1? I have heard from a DOC that if he wants to he can have any team in flight 1. How true is that? Do they need to justify and convince someone from the league to enter flight 1?


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## aong cangkol (Dec 20, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> a. like MLS Next, the club not the team joins EA.  Your coach if you are the top team in the age group for the club (or if you are the second team and the top team is in or joining MLS Next, though I think your age group might be a little young if they are rising 11s) he doesn't have a choice since they are almost always required to field a team for every age group
> b. if the team is not up to snuff, get ready for cuts.  The EA name will attract a higher quality player particularly at that age since looking to play MLS Next.  Your team as it exists now no longer exists if you are flight 2.  The parents afraid to pull their kids might find they don't have a choice.  Sorry to say but particularly if you are playing EA1, your team is effectively over.
> c. which is why it's very important to know if you are going to be EA or EA2.  If EA, I believe in your age group you might still be up against the MLS academy teams if you are rising 11s.  Get ready for a pounding.  If it's EA2 the quality varies year to year and as they are growing EA2 the competition might be a very mixed bag.  There may very well be some blow outs and there might very well be some you blow out....for some of the larger clubs EA2 is for the 3rd teams and there are also clubs that can't just put together an effective squad in that age group.


Since it is definitely higher level as you and others suggested, most likely an EA2. Our team is definitely not that good, I would say mid tier Flight 1 Socal league. Now, if it is EA2, I really think it is better to stay in Flight 1 because I do not see the competitive advantage with longer drive/commute (which I would not be able to do anyway).
As far as the motivation of the club, they might want to get more exposure or under pressure to field more team but I really do not see the advantage to the kids (compared to Socal Flight 1).


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## Jamisfoes (Dec 20, 2022)

aong cangkol said:


> Since it is definitely higher level as you and others suggested, most likely an EA2. Our team is definitely not that good, I would say mid tier Flight 1 Socal league. Now, if it is EA2, I really think it is better to stay in Flight 1 because I do not see the competitive advantage with longer drive/commute (which I would not be able to do anyway).
> As far as the motivation of the club, they might want to get more exposure or under pressure to field more team but I really do not see the advantage to the kids (compared to Socal Flight 1).


Starting age 12, socal flight 1s are not really the top level competitions anymore. Good teams leave socal to play MLS Next and ECNL. EA is for clubs that can't get into MLS next and ECNL. I would call EA the flight 2 equivalent. And socal flight 1 becomes the flight 3 equivalent.


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## aong cangkol (Dec 20, 2022)

Jamisfoes said:


> Speaking of socal flight 1, could someone in the know comment on how a team get to play in flight 1? I have heard from a DOC that if he wants to he can have any team in flight 1. How true is that? Do they need to justify and convince someone from the league to enter flight 1?


I think the DOC is right. Most clubs prefer to avoid playing Flight 1 (younger age group)). See below bracket, nobody wants to be in Flight 1 in West,East,South thus SOCAL has to create Flight 1/2 to accommodate the demand for Flight 2.
I remember the parents in my team wants to play Flight 1 but the coach (or club) rejected the idea even though the league allow us to join (I believe we beat some Flight 1 teams in the summer but I don't know for sure, team names and players are interchangeable).


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## Grace T. (Dec 20, 2022)

Jamisfoes said:


> Starting age 12, socal flight 1s are not really the top level competitions anymore. Good teams leave socal to play MLS Next and ECNL. EA is for clubs that can't get into MLS next and ECNL. I would call EA the flight 2 equivalent. And socal flight 1 becomes the flight 3 equivalent.


Good and bad teams so long as they are the top team at the registered club must leave because the club must field a team in the age group.  If the team is not up to snuff, the hope is recruitment makes up for it as the top players are all looking for MLS/ECNL opportunities.

Flight 1 at the larger clubs actually becomes the fourth or even 5th team (after MLS Next, EA, EA2/NPL/E64)


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## Jamisfoes (Dec 20, 2022)

aong cangkol said:


> I think the DOC is right. Most clubs prefer to avoid playing Flight 1 (younger age group)). See below bracket, nobody wants to be in Flight 1 in West,East,South thus SOCAL has to create Flight 1/2 to accommodate the demand for Flight 2.
> I remember the parents in my team wants to play Flight 1 but the coach (or club) rejected the idea even though the league allow us to join (I believe we beat some Flight 1 teams in the summer but I don't know for sure, team names and players are interchangeable).


It's better to win a lot of games then to lose a bunch. Their thinking is winning keeps the team together and money coming in. Teams like these will lose their best players to flight 1 eventually and they forever toil in lower fights.


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## Grace T. (Dec 20, 2022)

aong cangkol said:


> Since it is definitely higher level as you and others suggested, most likely an EA2. Our team is definitely not that good, I would say mid tier Flight 1 Socal league. Now, if it is EA2, I really think it is better to stay in Flight 1 because I do not see the competitive advantage with longer drive/commute (which I would not be able to do anyway).
> As far as the motivation of the club, they might want to get more exposure or under pressure to field more team but I really do not see the advantage to the kids (compared to Socal Flight 1).


The issue is all the clubs eventually want to field an MLS Next team.  Without it, or at least ECNL, they are at a significant disadvantage in recruitment.  Flight 1 for 15 year old boys isn't going to cut it because flight 1 is essentially the 4th or 5th tier by that age, and if it's the top team than the club is in trouble, so they no doubt are building out for the future.  Some clubs like SoCal Elite really have their eyes on the prize and have been pushing for MLS Next status and have built a few teams in a few age groups to justify that.  Some clubs, most notably AYSO United, have been frozen out, hence why Elite 64 exists.  But that's the ultimate goal of the DOC.  It's the secondary effects of having a closed system. 

the other distortion of the closed system is some years you'll have great teams and some years you won't.  If you look at even strikers, they have some at the top of the EA and EA2 brackets, and some which just didn't work out, despite overall having a knack for recruiting really great teams capable of playing even a level up from where they are placed.  But that's because it's the club, not the team, which is qualified, and they must field a team for the relevant level...the club as a whole is also being evaluated based on all the teams playing. 



Jamisfoes said:


> It's better to win a lot of games then to lose a bunch. Their thinking is winning keeps the team together and money coming in. Teams like these will lose their best players to flight 1 eventually and they forever toil in lower fights.


This changes once they move into the closed loop systems of MLS Next, EA and ECNL.  Then many players would prefer to be at the lowest ranked MLS Next Team than the highest ranked EA team, or a SoCal team taking a run at winning NPL/flight 1 state cup.


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## watfly (Dec 20, 2022)

EA is just another league.  It will be hit and miss as to the quality of teams since the youth soccer landscape is so diluted.  It's not affiliated with MLS Next, but the EA league was originally created by a few MLS Next clubs (mostly Socal) to sell to parents a so-called stepping stone to MLS Next.  It was done to compete with the ECNL's regional league, or ECNL-R, and to offer MLS Next clubs' affiliates (like Albion) an "acronym league" to play in.    EA falls somewhere probably in the 3rd tier of youth soccer in SoCal.


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## Jamisfoes (Dec 20, 2022)

But OP has a good point though, sounds like his club is EA2, if that's the case why not just play socal flight 1? It's a crap shoot. 
My suggestion to OP, if he cares about having his kid on a true "flight 1" team, is switch to a club with MLS next or ECNL offering.


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## Messi>CR7 (Dec 20, 2022)

Jamisfoes said:


> Speaking of socal flight 1, could someone in the know comment on how a team get to play in flight 1? I have heard from a DOC that if he wants to he can have any team in flight 1. How true is that? Do they need to justify and convince someone from the league to enter flight 1?


DOC/coach decides whether to place the team in F1, F2, or F3.  SoCal does not care.

For the olders, prior to Covid there were some rules about entrance into the Discovery bracket.  Not sure if those rules are still valid.


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## aong cangkol (Dec 21, 2022)

Thank you all for the input.
I looked it up and have better understanding now. For U13 and older is quite clear in this order MLSNext,ECNL,EA then NPL/EA2/ECRL/Flight1
For U12 and younger is not quite clear, there are only EA/Pre-ECNL/Flight 1. Is this the right order?


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## aong cangkol (Dec 21, 2022)

Thank you all for the input. 
I looked it up and have better understanding now. For U13 and older is quite clear MLSNext,ECNL,EA then maybe NPL/EA2/ECRL/Flight1
For U12 and younger it is not quite clear, there are only EA/Pre-ECNL/Flight 1. Is it the right order?


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## Code (Dec 21, 2022)

aong cangkol said:


> Need advice...Our team is maybe top 2 or 3 in Socal League Flight 2. The coach will move the team to EA league next year, selling it as better competition....etc..
> I don't think it makes sense, why not flight 1? Some parents were sold, some hesitant but afraid to pull their kids.
> I cannot believe I have to go through painful exercise finding another team/coach/club. I suspect the club has agreement with the EA league? maybe someone can explain to me.  Should I really stay with the club? It is for younger age group 11 years old. Maybe Socal league refuse to move us to Flight 1?
> I really cannot understand what is the purpose of moving to another league.


You should absolutely ask your Coach and the Club Director these questions.  Face to face if possible, or at a minimum on the phone.  This way you will have a better understanding of their intentions for the team in the future.  As many have already said, it is a club move, not the individual team.  The director may have already written off the players on this team if they are not already performing at the level of play they are being entered into.  The Coach may not have a choice, but will know if they expect the team perform.  The sooner you have a conversation, and the expectations of both sides are know, the better.  You can make decisions based on the expectations, and not wonder what the future intentions are.


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## Code (Dec 21, 2022)

aong cangkol said:


> Thank you all for the input.
> I looked it up and have better understanding now. For U13 and older is quite clear MLSNext,ECNL,EA then maybe NPL/EA2/ECRL/Flight1
> For U12 and younger it is not quite clear, there are only EA/Pre-ECNL/Flight 1. Is it the right order?


You are never going to get everyone to agree on the hierarchy of Leagues, especially in this forum.  The boys and girls side are also not aligned due to MLS Next for the boys, and no NWSL product for the girls (not yet anyway).  Almost everyone will agree that MLS next for the boys and ECNL for the girls are the top leagues.  I made a chart of the older leagues to help myself understand how all these leagues are related, and who the overseeing organizations are that are competing with each other for "the best" product/league.  This chart was made with the Southwest teams in comparison.  The GA and EA may be in higher Tiers in other regions, but it has been very evident this year that they are not as strong in the Southwest.


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## Code (Dec 21, 2022)

Messi>CR7 said:


> DOC/coach decides whether to place the team in F1, F2, or F3.  SoCal does not care.
> 
> For the olders, prior to Covid there were some rules about entrance into the Discovery bracket.  Not sure if those rules are still valid.



Here is a link to SOCAL's plan for the NPL 2023 Fall Season.  If they stick with the plan to implement promotion/relegation, the NPL will be a very strong league in the next couple years.    http://socalsoccerleague.org/_files/programming/discovery-npl-1/SOCAL Discovery NPL Qualification.pdf


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## Grace T. (Dec 21, 2022)

Code said:


> You are never going to get everyone to agree on the hierarchy of Leagues, especially in this forum.  The boys and girls side are also not aligned due to MLS Next for the boys, and no NWSL product for the girls (not yet anyway).  Almost everyone will agree that MLS next for the boys and ECNL for the girls are the top leagues.  I made a chart of the older leagues to help myself understand how all these leagues are related, and who the overseeing organizations are that are competing with each other for "the best" product/league.  This chart was made with the Southwest teams in comparison.  The GA and EA may be in higher Tiers in other regions, but it has been very evident this year that they are not as strong in the Southwest.View attachment 15245


Your calsouth stuff is already out of date.  On the olders boys end at least it is now Premiere/Championship/flight 1 gold/flight 2 silver/flight 3 bronze.  

The products aren't necessarily one to one.  The premiere is certainly at least low level EA competition and one b08 team recently came back with success in Europe.  The lower flight CalSouth is also a big mess, sort of with flight 4 and flight 3 socal equivalents mushed together.  Lot of blow outs.  May resolve next year as flight 3s move up assuming cal south holds it together but CalSouth is organized deliberately like a pyramid while Socal is not (which actually if you think about how talent is really distributed makes a whole lot more sense).  ECRL/NPL is also a hard to judge with the exodus of some NPL teams to Elite 64, EA, EA2, but there are still some NPL teams that can take out some boys ECRL teams

MLS Next needs to be really broken out into two tiers since for league the academies are playing just each other as they get older.  The rest are mostly practice cannon fodder for the academy teams and are in their own league together, some substantial overlap in quality with ECNL.


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## Grace T. (Dec 21, 2022)

Code said:


> Here is a link to SOCAL's plan for the NPL 2023 Fall Season.  If they stick with the plan to implement promotion/relegation, the NPL will be a very strong league in the next couple years.    http://socalsoccerleague.org/_files/programming/discovery-npl-1/SOCAL Discovery NPL Qualification.pdf


I really don't think so.  I think it's just going to accelerate the move of clubs into EA2 and E64.  The issue with having pro rel in just a middle tier is that it makes it very hard to move players around.  You can't promote your best because you need to keep the NPL strong, so they are just locked in, and to move up need to change clubs.  For that reason the clubs prefer the closed circuit.


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## Code (Dec 21, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> Your calsouth stuff is already out of date.  On the olders boys end at least it is now Premiere/Championship/flight 1 gold/flight 2 silver/flight 3 bronze.
> 
> The products aren't necessarily one to one.  The premiere is certainly at least low level EA competition and one b08 team recently came back with success in Europe.  The lower flight CalSouth is also a big mess, sort of with flight 4 and flight 3 socal equivalents mushed together.  Lot of blow outs.  May resolve next year as flight 3s move up assuming cal south holds it together but CalSouth is organized deliberately like a pyramid while Socal is not (which actually if you think about how talent is really distributed makes a whole lot more sense).  ECRL/NPL is also a hard to judge with the exodus of some NPL teams to Elite 64, EA, EA2, but there are still some NPL teams that can take out some boys ECRL teams
> 
> MLS Next needs to be really broken out into two tiers since for league the academies are playing just each other as they get older.  The rest are mostly practice cannon fodder for the academy teams and are in their own league together, some substantial overlap in quality with ECNL.


Thanks for the updated info on CalSouth, I made this last year and haven't really followed their branding changes.  There are always going to be one or two exceptions for specific teams and the overlap, as the annotation states, Tier 2, 3, and 4 leagues have a lot of overlap.  Some great teams are locked out of leagues, and can perform very well at higher levels.  Some teams like to sandbag in lower level leagues, and can perform well against teams in higher leagues.  Some teams are in a league because the club must enter a team for that age group, and they are not playing up to par.  The chart is based of the mean average level of play of the teams in that league.  There is also a problem of Hierarchy within the overseeing organization when comparing leagues.  For example, USYS products are designed with the hierarchy of E64, PRO, and then USYS Regional Leagues (Cal South).  If Cal South Premiere is moved up to be in line with low level EA or high level EA2, then it would imply E64 is performing with MLS Next, which it is not.  Southwest does not really have a PRO following, and the E64 is in reality, not much better than the regional leagues top flights (Cal South/SOCAL), but I can't really justify moving Cal South Premiere above E64 because a few teams are performing at the bottom of EA level.  I did decide to combine the E64 and P.R.O., because the southwest just doesn't really participate in P.R.O..  Here is a slightly updated chart for all of us to debate.


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## Code (Dec 21, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> I really don't think so.  I think it's just going to accelerate the move of clubs into EA2 and E64.  The issue with having pro rel in just a middle tier is that it makes it very hard to move players around.  You can't promote your best because you need to keep the NPL strong, so they are just locked in, and to move up need to change clubs.  For that reason the clubs prefer the closed circuit.



For the clubs in closed circuit leagues, that have a higher level of play than SOCAL League you are correct.  But for teams not playing at privileged clubs, they are not going to be moving into leagues requiring travel.  I won't be surprised if a lot of E64 players leave to play CSL/NPL next year, as many families are not okay with the added expense of closed league pay for basically the same level of play. I know a lot of families who had their first year of E64/DPL/EA2 this past year, and are not planning on repeating the experience next year unless they are playing MLS Next(boys)/ECNL(girls).  Clubs who have their third and forth teams in NPL the past couple of years, probably won't be able to keep them there, not because the level of play is too low, but because the level of play will be increasing, and third team players will not be competitive.  A lot of the clubs who are playing higher level leagues have NPL teams who are already not performing, and are already being relegated this upcoming season.  I don't think NPL will be Tier 1, but it will certainly be on par with Tier 2 and 3 leagues soon.  I could be wrong, again, but we will see in a couple years.


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## Grace T. (Dec 21, 2022)

Code said:


> For the clubs in closed circuit leagues, that have a higher level of play than SOCAL League you are correct.  But for teams not playing at privileged clubs, they are not going to be moving into leagues requiring travel.  I won't be surprised if a lot of E64 players leave to play CSL/NPL next year, as many families are not okay with the added expense of closed league pay for basically the same level of play. I know a lot of families who had their first year of E64/DPL/EA2 this past year, and are not planning on repeating the experience next year unless they are playing MLS Next(boys)/ECNL(girls).  Clubs who have their third and forth teams in NPL the past couple of years, probably won't be able to keep them there, not because the level of play is too low, but because the level of play will be increasing, and third team players will not be competitive.  A lot of the clubs who are playing higher level leagues have NPL teams who are already not performing, and are already being relegated this upcoming season.  I don't think NPL will be Tier 1, but it will certainly be on par with Tier 2 and 3 leagues soon.  I could be wrong, again, but we will see in a couple years.


I think it depends how much EA2 poaches and grows.  The issue with the more competitive teams from locked out clubs is that eventually those players go to greener pastures to move up, which then places the NPL team in danger of relegation.


Code said:


> Thanks for the updated info on CalSouth, I made this last year and haven't really followed their branding changes.  There are always going to be one or two exceptions for specific teams and the overlap, as the annotation states, Tier 2, 3, and 4 leagues have a lot of overlap.  Some great teams are locked out of leagues, and can perform very well at higher levels.  Some teams like to sandbag in lower level leagues, and can perform well against teams in higher leagues.  Some teams are in a league because the club must enter a team for that age group, and they are not playing up to par.  The chart is based of the mean average level of play of the teams in that league.  There is also a problem of Hierarchy within the overseeing organization when comparing leagues.  For example, USYS products are designed with the hierarchy of E64, PRO, and then USYS Regional Leagues (Cal South).  If Cal South Premiere is moved up to be in line with low level EA or high level EA2, then it would imply E64 is performing with MLS Next, which it is not.  Southwest does not really have a PRO following, and the E64 is in reality, not much better than the regional leagues top flights (Cal South/SOCAL), but I can't really justify moving Cal South Premiere above E64 because a few teams are performing at the bottom of EA level.  I did decide to combine the E64 and P.R.O., because the southwest just doesn't really participate in P.R.O..  Here is a slightly updated chart for all of us to debate.
> View attachment 15249


I still object to MLS Next being bunched together.  The Academies are a much different kettle of fish and ECNL's top teams for the boys is definitely on par with the mid tiers of the remainder of MLS Next.  No way ECNL is on par either by repute or competitively with the mid tier of EA which is far below that of ECNL.  The lower level of EA1 would have difficulty with the top NPL and premiere teams, much less be two bands over it.


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## aong cangkol (Dec 21, 2022)

Code said:


> I won't be surprised if a lot of E64 players leave to play CSL/NPL next year, as many families are not okay with the added expense of closed league pay for basically the same level of play. I know a lot of families who had their first year of E64/DPL/EA2 this past year, and are not planning on repeating the experience next year unless they are playing MLS Next(boys)/ECNL(girls).


This happens to my team and my circle of friends/families. Majority cannot afford travelling league (due to time and/or financial) thus the level of play really does not matter if it plays beyond greater LA/OC/SD/SB county. Perhaps this could be the selling point of NPL, I certainly hope so.



Grace T. said:


> I think it depends how much EA2 poaches and grows.  The issue with the more competitive teams from locked out clubs is that eventually those players go to greener pastures to move up, which then places the NPL team in danger of relegation.
> I still object to MLS Next being bunched together.  The Academies are a much different kettle of fish and ECNL's top teams for the boys is definitely on par with the mid tiers of the remainder of MLS Next.  No way ECNL is on par either by repute or competitively with the mid tier of EA which is far below that of ECNL.  The lower level of EA1 would have difficulty with the top NPL and premiere teams, much less be two bands over it.


My real hope is to have one pyramid for all youth soccer. Obviously not going to happen in our lifetime


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## Code (Dec 21, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> I think it depends how much EA2 poaches and grows.  The issue with the more competitive teams from locked out clubs is that eventually those players go to greener pastures to move up, which then places the NPL team in danger of relegation.
> 
> I still object to MLS Next being bunched together.  The Academies are a much different kettle of fish and ECNL's top teams for the boys is definitely on par with the mid tiers of the remainder of MLS Next.  No way ECNL is on par either by repute or competitively with the mid tier of EA which is far below that of ECNL.  The lower level of EA1 would have difficulty with the top NPL and premiere teams, much less be two bands over it.


I admit, the boys side is murky, and I think widely varied even within the different regions in SoCal.  


Grace T. said:


> I think it depends how much EA2 poaches and grows.  The issue with the more competitive teams from locked out clubs is that eventually those players go to greener pastures to move up, which then places the NPL team in danger of relegation.
> 
> I still object to MLS Next being bunched together.  The Academies are a much different kettle of fish and ECNL's top teams for the boys is definitely on par with the mid tiers of the remainder of MLS Next.  No way ECNL is on par either by repute or competitively with the mid tier of EA which is far below that of ECNL.  The lower level of EA1 would have difficulty with the top NPL and premiere teams, much less be two bands over it.


On the boys side, how would you compare/align the top league from each organization?  MLS Academy in relation to ECNL to EA to E64?  I know there is a lot of overlap, my original comparison was an attempt to create overlapping gradients for each league, but it was a complicated mess.  The intent of this table, is to help others (originally myself) understand how all the different leagues and organizations fit together in youth soccer.  So, at some point I abandoned the gradients and overlaps, and determined a decision must be made about where a league falls into the hierarchy of tiers on the chart, absolutely no overlap, a decision must be made about what tier the league really is and not a few specific teams (mean average level of play).  I found it easier to focus on the top league for each organization first, and then let the internal hierarchy of the organization determine where the corresponding leagues fall.  I may be giving E64 a little more credit than they have earned, but we will see how the rest the year goes.  I've also made an argument that DPL is on par with SOCAL Flt 1 in the past, to much pushback from the GA/DPL crew.  I actually think this revision maybe much closer to reality.


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## Grace T. (Dec 21, 2022)

Code said:


> I admit, the boys side is murky, and I think widely varied even within the different regions in SoCal.
> 
> 
> On the boys side, how would you compare/align the top league from each organization?  MLS Academy in relation to ECNL to EA to E64?  I know there is a lot of overlap, my original comparison was an attempt to create overlapping gradients for each league, but it was a complicated mess.  The intent of this table, is to help others (originally myself) understand how all the different leagues and organizations fit together in youth soccer.  So, at some point I abandoned the gradients and overlaps, and determined a decision must be made about where a league falls into the hierarchy of tiers on the chart, absolutely no overlap, a decision must be made about what tier the league really is and not a few specific teams (mean average level of play).  I found it easier to focus on the top league for each organization first, and then let the internal hierarchy of the organization determine where the corresponding leagues fall.  I may be giving E64 a little more credit than they have earned, but we will see how the rest the year goes.  I've also made an argument that DPL is on par with SOCAL Flt 1 in the past, to much pushback from the GA/DPL crew.  I actually think this revision maybe much closer to reality.  View attachment 15251


I don’t think you can do it justice without grading it. The other distortion is SoCal teams are just better generally than the equivalents in other areas of the country certain areas excepted.

but I think this is now generally right. The rest is nuanced:
Mls academies stand on their own
Mls next slightly better than ecnl due to the top tier teams but otherwise ecnl equivalent. 
ea slightly stronger than Ecrl. Cal south premier is also equivalent to ecrl and ea.  those teams can go and do beat ea teams in the tournaments. Their forged in the pro rel 
SoCal flight 3 is equivalent (at least for now) with cal south bronze.  At the olders flight 4 is just a wreck…mostly a safe haven for new teams in first year.  Reason why is cal south insists on the pyramid
As we know now from the e64 thread, different clubs are using it different. Some of the big clubs are using it as dumping grounds for the 4th team. Some like ayso are using it as an ea substitute since locked out. Some are using it as a way to shift around players for extra competition while others are using it as their main league. It’s probably just a special case with no equivalent.


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## SoCal1234 (Dec 23, 2022)

There is going to be a huge disparity in levels of teams no matter what league you are in.  If you look at rankings for EA, the top teams are completely blowing out the lower level teams and I am sure it’s the same for MLS and ECNL.  Some EA teams are the 2nd team to clubs with MLS teams and are probably doing quite well.  Some EA teams are probably flight 2 level but we’re pushed up because the club needed to field a team.


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## Futbol2dmaxxx (Dec 25, 2022)

If you look at the top of the 2011 EA table the top  are always battling out are competitive,Out off all the 22 teams 10 teams don’t belong there are not at the same level as those tops teams.
 now the u13 and up is where all the fun begins you have showcases nationals ect. Where it all counts, you have team being dropped to EA2 as relegation  and pushed up for promotions, Hopefully implement this 23/24 year.  Just be prepared to actually have competition from day 1


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## Grace T. (Dec 25, 2022)

Futbol2dmaxxx said:


> If you look at the top of the 2011 EA table the top  are always battling out are competitive,Out off all the 22 teams 10 teams don’t belong there are not at the same level as those tops teams.
> now the u13 and up is where all the fun begins you have showcases nationals ect. Where it all counts, you have team being dropped to EA2 as relegation  and pushed up for promotions, Hopefully implement this 23/24 year.  Just be prepared to actually have competition from day 1


The problem with this is always going to be the same issue as pro/rel for NPL.  A sizeable chunk of the EA is the second teams of the MLS Next Teams.  In some areas they are dependent on the needs of the MLS Team, and particularly in smaller markets, the MLS Next Team might raid for players in particular years if needed (hence the variability year to year).  In others, particularly the larger areas, it will make it it difficult for players to move out of EA and into MLS next because of the need to keep the EA team strong (thats kind of good news for ECNL).  It makes it less about the merit of the individual players and more about the needs of the organization, which while appropriate in a professional context, isn't really what should count in a youth development environment.  Pro/rel only really works when the entire system is pro/rel from top to bottom like the old Coast monopoly.  But as I've said, you can have you soccer accessible, developmental or competitive (pick 2...or in this case maybe 1 1/2).


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## Carlsbad7 (Dec 25, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> The problem with this is always going to be the same issue as pro/rel for NPL.  A sizeable chunk of the EA is the second teams of the MLS Next Teams.  In some areas they are dependent on the needs of the MLS Team, and particularly in smaller markets, the MLS Next Team might raid for players in particular years if needed (hence the variability year to year).  In others, particularly the larger areas, it will make it it difficult for players to move out of EA and into MLS next because of the need to keep the EA team strong (thats kind of good news for ECNL).  It makes it less about the merit of the individual players and more about the needs of the organization, which while appropriate in a professional context, isn't really what should count in a youth development environment.  Pro/rel only really works when the entire system is pro/rel from top to bottom like the old Coast monopoly.  But as I've said, you can have you soccer accessible, developmental or competitive (pick 2...or in this case maybe 1 1/2).


Local tryouts from other teams solves this. If clubs want to push down talent + keep them on the B team other clubs will take notice and recruit the talent.

As a parent you need to be doing tryouts at multiple clubs. You never know when another location might be the perfect fit.


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## Socal-Soccer-Dad (Dec 25, 2022)

aong cangkol said:


> I think the DOC is right. Most clubs prefer to avoid playing Flight 1 (younger age group)). See below bracket, nobody wants to be in Flight 1 in West,East,South thus SOCAL has to create Flight 1/2 to accommodate the demand for Flight 2.
> I remember the parents in my team wants to play Flight 1 but the coach (or club) rejected the idea even though the league allow us to join (I believe we beat some Flight 1 teams in the summer but I don't know for sure, team names and players are interchangeable).
> 
> View attachment 15243


Your kid is 2013? I think EA2 started at U13 this season so 2011s will have EA2s unless they're expanding to younger ages next season (https://system.gotsport.com/org_event/events/16777/schedules?group=115604).

So if it's EA the team is moving to, I think it can work out if the team gels and is able to hang with the above average flight 1 teams currently but if not, it could be a long season to get beat up while driving very far distances for games... 
Presumably, the best flight 1 2013 teams will be moving onto the EA next year.

You certainly don't want to take the team up to EA and experience a -50 GD season like some of the teams are experiencing now... (https://system.gotsport.com/org_event/events/16720/schedules?group=114479). 

That wouldn't be very fun for the kids.


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## Grace T. (Dec 25, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Local tryouts from other teams solves this. If clubs want to push down talent + keep them on the B team other clubs will take notice and recruit the talent.
> 
> As a parent you need to be doing tryouts at multiple clubs. You never know when another location might be the perfect fit.


Yes but it means club hopping is a necessary part of that instead of staying with your friends and developing as a unit. It also means teams get to be largely new every year which means the point of pro/rel (earning the spot and making sure play is level) is kinda moot.


Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> Your kid is 2013? I think EA2 started at U13 this season so 2011s will have EA2s unless they're expanding to younger ages next season (https://system.gotsport.com/org_event/events/16777/schedules?group=115604).
> 
> So if it's EA the team is moving to, I think it can work out if the team gels and is able to hang with the above average flight 1 teams currently but if not, it could be a long season to get beat up while driving very far distances for games...
> Presumably, the best flight 1 2013 teams will be moving onto the EA next year.
> ...


Rumors are that ea2 is expanding. But the most likely experience if they are sifting to ea1 isn’t a -50 gd (though it could happen particularly if they are in a low recruiting area or if it’s poorly managed).  The most likely outcome is most of the existing players will be replaced since at this age ea1 is a huge draw for families looking forward to playing mls next.


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## Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr (Dec 27, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> As we know now from the e64 thread, different clubs are using it different. Some of the big clubs are using it as dumping grounds for the 4th team.* Some like ayso are using it as an ea substitute since locked out. *Some are using it as a way to shift around players for extra competition while others are using it as their main league. It’s probably just a special case with no equivalent.


Why is this? I've seen some very good AYSO United teams over the years.


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## Carlsbad7 (Dec 27, 2022)

Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr said:


> Why is this? I've seen some very good AYSO United teams over the years.


It's not about AYSO having good teams or not and I agree with you that in the younger ages there can be some very good AYSO teams.

What others are saying is that good teams need to play other good teams to continue getting better. As the players start getting older clubs will group together + only play each other. What this means for AYSO is it doesnt matter how good your team is you'll never get an opportunity to prove it against the "best of the best".  This is why they're playing in EA, e64, etc instead of Next or ECNL. This is also why people say soccer is for rich people in the US. Clubs that play in Next and ECNL typically charge 3k+ per year and expect another 2-3k for travel + things like jerseys backpacks camps etc.

If lightning strikes and an AYSO team happens to play and do well against a top club team in a tournament or scrimmage there will be coaches in the parking lot trying to recruit your players.


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## Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr (Dec 27, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> It's not about AYSO having good teams or not and I agree with you that in the younger ages there can be some very good AYSO teams.
> 
> What others are saying is that good teams need to play other good teams to continue getting better. As the players start getting older clubs will group together + only play each other. What this means for AYSO is it doesnt matter how good your team is you'll never get an opportunity to prove it against the "best of the best".  This is why they're playing in EA, e64, etc instead of Next or ECNL. This is also why people say soccer is for rich people in the US. Clubs that play in Next and ECNL typically charge 3k+ per year and expect another 2-3k for travel + things like jerseys backpacks camps etc.
> 
> If lightning strikes and an AYSO team happens to play and do well against a top club team in a tournament or scrimmage there will be coaches in the parking lot trying to recruit your players.


AYSO United isn't playing in EA, but they are in E64. I was wondering why they were locked out of EA considering its reach. That was my question to Grace T.  

EA isn't that far off ECNL in certain age groups and E64, at least in SoCal, isn't really considered a good league. High level, organized scrimmages at best. MLS Next is, IMO, far superior.


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## aong cangkol (Dec 28, 2022)

Carlsbad7 said:


> Local tryouts from other teams solves this. If clubs want to push down talent + keep them on the B team other clubs will take notice and recruit the talent.
> 
> As a parent you need to be doing tryouts at multiple clubs. You never know when another location might be the perfect fit.


Doing it every year is a lot of stress for both parents and child. No matter how careful you are during the tryout/practice, you can never know for sure. I have experienced that the team you practice with during the tryout is not the same one you end up with later. Some kids in the process of leaving and some kids are new recruits. Even the coach can be different. Basically you gamble every year. Once you sign the contract, 1 year can be a lost year. The child can even lose interest in playing.
Most parents I know just keep it simple, they just move to the highest league/level they can get. I don't think it is wise, you can be in an ECNL team playing 10 min/game, wasting money and time.


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## Grace T. (Dec 28, 2022)

Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr said:


> AYSO United isn't playing in EA, but they are in E64. I was wondering why they were locked out of EA considering its reach. That was my question to Grace T.
> 
> EA isn't that far off ECNL in certain age groups and E64, at least in SoCal, isn't really considered a good league. High level, organized scrimmages at best. MLS Next is, IMO, far superior.


I don't know but I have three guesses: 1. the AYSO governing board is a an org different and separate and apart from the 4 others listed on code's chart.  They've been reluctant to subsume under any of them which has led to resentment and turf wars with the others, 2. AYSO United has an everyone plays philosophy (in my experience, more honored in the breach) but it's incompatible with the substitution limitations set out in MLS, EA and ECNL.  I also think it builds the impression among others that because of this AYSO United is less professional., 3. AYSO United is organized in a hub and spokes model all over Socal from Santa Barbara to Chula Vista to the IE....it makes it hard to aggregate 1 or 2 superstar teams and if you do it in LA and San Diego (knowing that these teams will poach from surrounding areas) the hubs in Oxnard, Conejo, IE, South Bay will scream.

However, AYSO United is not the only one locked out (it's just the biggest and most obvious example).  Another one is SoCal Elite which has had enormous success.  Their B2008 team, for example, I believe won the national cup and is on par with most mid level MLS Next teams for that age group.  They are being made to jump hoops and to start in EA2.  SoCal Elite also has a number of other really good teams but has been locked out of MLS Next and for a few years the EA.  LASC is another club...not as large as some of the MLS Next Clubs...growth is probably hampered by a lack of an MLS Next Team and an EA Team.  There's a certain "if you build it they will come" that goes on with MLS/EA/ECNL teams.  If they have access to the top tiers, their programs will grow since around age 11-13 the boys looking to play higher level will congregate to these programs.


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## aong cangkol (Dec 28, 2022)

Socal-Soccer-Dad said:


> So if it's EA the team is moving to, I think it can work out if the team gels and is able to hang with the above average flight 1 teams currently but if not, it could be a long season to get beat up while driving very far distances for games...
> Presumably, the best flight 1 2013 teams will be moving onto the EA next year.
> 
> You certainly don't want to take the team up to EA and experience a -50 GD season like some of the teams are experiencing now... (https://system.gotsport.com/org_event/events/16720/schedules?group=114479).


This is exactly what I am concern with. It appears that the club wants to maintain at least 80% of the current team. Even a -20 GD would be a surprise for the kids, especially after having a +20 GD. 10 year olds do not have good understanding of the level yet, even after we explain EA, MLSnext, NPL, Discovery,....
I will wait until at least March before signing a new contract to consider all options, I know the club will threaten to give out the place to other people in February. They want to secure players as much as they can before the official tryout in February.


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## Carlsbad7 (Dec 28, 2022)

aong cangkol said:


> Doing it every year is a lot of stress for both parents and child. No matter how careful you are during the tryout/practice, you can never know for sure. I have experienced that the team you practice with during the tryout is not the same one you end up with later. Some kids in the process of leaving and some kids are new recruits. Even the coach can be different. Basically you gamble every year. Once you sign the contract, 1 year can be a lost year. The child can even lose interest in playing.
> Most parents I know just keep it simple, they just move to the highest league/level they can get. I don't think it is wise, you can be in an ECNL team playing 10 min/game, wasting money and time.


Trying out at different clubs isnt always about making that specific team. ;-)

1. When you try out at different clubs you get to experience how other clubs function.
2. It gets your kid on the radar of other clubs 
3. Coaches talk + they find out who's trying out at different clubs. If your kid is currently on the top team but they were thinking about bumping them down to a B team. If they know you're trying out at other clubs they'll pick another player. This is because with clubs being competitive is important but not losing players is importanter.


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## Grace T. (Dec 28, 2022)

aong cangkol said:


> This is exactly what I am concern with. It appears that the club wants to maintain at least 80% of the current team. Even a -20 GD would be a surprise for the kids, especially after having a +20 GD. 10 year olds do not have good understanding of the level yet, even after we explain EA, MLSnext, NPL, Discovery,....
> I will wait until at least March before signing a new contract to consider all options, I know the club will threaten to give out the place to other people in February. They want to secure players as much as they can before the official tryout in February.


Further to what Carlsbad wrote, getting you to sign now is all about retention.  Read the agreement carefully...there's probably a clause in there that either allows them to move your kid around to another team or that doesn't prohibit it.  If they are having open tryouts in February and are pressuring you now, and telling you at this point they are retaining about 80%, the true number is probably closer to 50%.  The hope maybe doing announcements about EA all over the soccer announcement boards might give them enough to do 2 teams...if they get someone better that comes along, they will make room for them...the clubs are masters at easing out people even if there isn't a 2nd team to take up the slack...the only question is how many people come out.


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## Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr (Dec 28, 2022)

Grace T. said:


> However, AYSO United is not the only one locked out (it's just the biggest and most obvious example).  *Another one is SoCal Elite which has had enormous success.  Their B2008 team, for example, I believe won the national cup and is on par with most mid level MLS Next teams for that age group. * They are being made to jump hoops and to start in EA2.


When it was announced, I figured SoCal Elite would jump right into EA and bypass EA2. For the B08, they'd be right there with Strikers, Force, Santa Monica Surf, and Riverside Albion in the u15 Southwest. At the break in u15 EA2, they are at 49 GF with 4 GA. They should not be slugging it out with the 3rd team for LAUFA and Force. Who's that helping keeping them at EA2?


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## Jamisfoes (Dec 28, 2022)

Do you know what typically happen to those EA clubs with no MLS next association after 13 years of age? Do they lose their best players to MLS next clubs?


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