# Coaches Be Threatening!!!



## jimbohonky (Nov 18, 2017)

Can a coach at the club level (i.e. not Academy) tell parents and players that they will NOT release their kid from the club at this point?

SCDSL is over, and it seems to me I hear this frequently from parents, although, in the end, most parents and players get their release.

What EXACTLY is the rule? And why do clubs use this tactic so much if its just hot air?!


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## Overlap (Nov 18, 2017)

jimbohonky said:


> Can a coach at the club level (i.e. not Academy) tell parents and players that they will NOT release their kid from the club at this point?
> 
> SCDSL is over, and it seems to me I hear this frequently from parents, although, in the end, most parents and players get their release.
> 
> What EXACTLY is the rule? And why do clubs use this tactic so much if its just hot air?!


he's full of hot air, a parent can request the transfer at ANY time. Your kid may be cup tied however, you can still transfer. In CSL it's the first Monday after Thanksgiving, right around the corner....AND, if you're going to a CSL team, a SCDSL player can transfer at ANY time. If the current team is playing in a Thanksgiving Tourney, it would be best to finish the commitment and then move.


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## jimbohonky (Nov 18, 2017)

Much appreciated Overlap.
I have zero reason to doubt you, but is this an actual rule or based on your experiences?
Thanks for responding—sometimes responses are a bit brutal around here


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## espola (Nov 18, 2017)

Cal South Rule 1.5.5.2

1.5.5.2 The Player Pass is the express property of Cal South. Any person who withholds a Player Pass will be subjected to immediate suspension by the appropriate District Commissioner. Such suspension shall remain in force until the Cal South Youth Member Player Pass is surrendered to the District Commissioner or Certified League Registrar.


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## sothpaw (Nov 18, 2017)

Here is the SCDSL rule.    

Players committing to play for a SCDSL member team will commit to that team for the “season”.  The “season” is defined as August 1st through State or National Cup for that player’s team. State/National Cup competition shall be defined as any local, regional or national USYS Competition.  Players will not be able to transfer to another SCDSL team unless the DOC’s from both clubs have approved the transfer.  Transfers from a SCDSL team to a team participating in another league other than the SCDSL may be contested and denied in accordance to the Cal South transfer rules.  Players transferring from a non-SCDSL team to a SCDSL team, may be contested by the outgoing club, in accordance to the Cal South transfer rules. Players may transfer to a team within the same club in accordance to Cal South transfer rules at any time. The SCDSL Transfer Rule is strictly enforced and all member clubs are expected to follow the rule as it is intended. 

The transfer rule that the SCDSL adopted is enforceable at the league level. The new Cal South Transfer Rule (effective 8/1/14) now requires DOC approval from both clubs on the release and transfer, no matter what league the player participates in. It also includes an appeal process, through Cal South, if the outgoing DOC refuses the player release. However, for SCDSL purposes, clubs that disregard the SCDSL rule are undermining the spirit of the league, and will be subject to board and Technical Committee review, and potential non-renewal for the following season. Even if an appeal is upheld through Cal South and the player is allowed to release from a SCDSL team, the incoming SCDSL club is expected to obtain the required approval from the outgoing DOC per the SCDSL Transfer Rule. If the outgoing DOC denies the transfer then the incoming club cannot register the player via a transfer. 

Specifically, a player release (drop) from any SCDSL team and subsequent signing at any time prior to the end of State/National Cup competition, as defined above, by another SCDSL team, is considered a transfer and will be considered a violation of the SCDSL rule as it is intended.


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## Desert619 (Nov 18, 2017)

The club can deny your release request and you can appeal it for a fee but most likely it will be denied anyways.


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## espola (Nov 18, 2017)

Desert619 said:


> The club can deny your release request and you can appeal it for a fee but most likely it will be denied anyways.


Slavery was outlawed 150 years ago.


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## The Driver (Nov 18, 2017)

espola said:


> Slavery was outlawed 150 years ago.


So fitting

????


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## Fact (Nov 18, 2017)

Desert619 said:


> The club can deny your release request and you can appeal it for a fee but most likely it will be denied anyways.


The rule has become so harsh. It use to be pretty standard for movement after Thanksgiving.

Do you have personal experience or is this a hunch?  I can think of several senarios were it would be in the best interest of the player for him/her to switch teams such as a lack of playing time, a team bully, cannot make practices etc.  Glad to see CalSouth has the best interest of kids in mind(sacrasim).


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## espola (Nov 18, 2017)

The Driver said:


> So fitting
> 
> ????


If you want to walk, walk.  If the coach/manager/registrar refuses to yield the documents, read them rule 1.5.5.2 above.  If they still won't cooperate, call the District Commissioner and get them suspended.

http://www.calsouth.com/en/board/

Individual leagues may have rules that inhibit playing for a time after signing with another team in that league, but Cal South is not rsponsible for enforcing those rules where they conflict with, or are more strict than, Cal South rules.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Nov 18, 2017)

What it comes down to is that if you want your ID that's easy and you can guest play for other teams before state cup, but on the flip side you are stuck on team you are presently at until both DOC are willing to allow the transfer. Also you will be stuck in your present team for State Cup, so just state put until after State Cup which start the last weekend of the Month of January. You can also go to your club register and pay for a new ID if you want it that bad.


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## Nutmeg (Nov 18, 2017)

If your new team wants you they will get new card depending upon the league. The old club needs to release and transfer you. The release is usually easy the transfer part might become an issue but with proper wording and communication is totally doable. Use common sense, be honest with your club as to why and most of not all will grant the transfer.  Pay attention to the release window and follow procedures and your set.


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## Real Deal (Nov 18, 2017)

Fact said:


> The rule has become so harsh. It use to be pretty standard for movement after Thanksgiving.
> 
> Do you have personal experience or is this a hunch?  I can think of several senarios were it would be in the best interest of the player for him/her to switch teams such as a lack of playing time, a team bully cannot make practices etc.  Glad to see CalSouth has the best interest of kids in mind(sacrasim


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## Real Deal (Nov 18, 2017)

Fact said:


> Do you have personal experience or is this a hunch?  I can think of several senarios were it would be in the best interest of the player for him/her to switch teams such as a lack of playing time, *a team bully*, cannot make practices etc.  Glad to see CalSouth has the best interest of kids in mind(sacrasim).


Team bully can ruin the whole experience.  Not much can be done about it if their parents have coaches ear also.


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## Desert619 (Nov 19, 2017)

Fact said:


> The rule has become so harsh. It use to be pretty standard for movement after Thanksgiving.
> 
> Do you have personal experience or is this a hunch?  I can think of several senarios were it would be in the best interest of the player for him/her to switch teams such as a lack of playing time, a team bully, cannot make practices etc.  Glad to see CalSouth has the best interest of kids in mind(sacrasim).



I have personal experience. My son was in 8th grade. His coach was going to be an assistant  coach for high school. In my experience kids continue to play & practice till state cup. Well at the last game of the season in November the coach told the team he will see them in 3 months for state cup. Keep in mind these kids aren't in high school. That didn't sit well with me and we left to find another team that will continue to practice and play during those 3 months.  the team he was practicing with invited him to play national cup and the old club refused to release my son. Cal south denied me the release they gave  me the option to appeal it for $100. Keep in mind and appeal doesn't guarantee an approval. I decided it wasn't worth it just to go to national cup and just let it go. 

However early this year with a different club my son's team was not going to state cup and we requetsed a releas so he can play national cup with another team and he was approved.

So it really depends on the club.


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## SoccerFrenzy (Nov 19, 2017)

Don't ask for a transfer. Just request a RELEASE plain and simple. Simply say you don't know where you are going and undecided


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## timbuck (Nov 19, 2017)

My daughters 07 team had a player approach the coach and team manager with 3 games left to play and balance of about $150.
She said "We are quitting as of now.  If you don't give us her card right now, we won't be paying the money we owe."
Clubs aren't always the one's acting a bit silly.
Team had some trouble winning games this year, but I think the coaching was good.  This parent was mad that the coach subbed her daughter off once in a while for a slightly weaker player.


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## wildcat66 (Nov 19, 2017)

what if you ask for the card to guest play and just dont give it back???


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## Fact (Nov 19, 2017)

Desert619 said:


> The club can deny your release request and you can appeal it for a fee but most likely it will be denied anyways.





Desert619 said:


> I have personal experience. My son was in 8th grade. His coach was going to be an assistant  coach for high school. In my experience kids continue to play & practice till state cup. Well at the last game of the season in November the coach told the team he will see them in 3 months for state cup. Keep in mind these kids aren't in high school. That didn't sit well with me and we left to find another team that will continue to practice and play during those 3 months.  the team he was practicing with invited him to play national cup and the old club refused to release my son. Cal south denied me the release they gave  me the option to appeal it for $100. Keep in mind and appeal doesn't guarantee an approval. I decided it wasn't worth it just to go to national cup and just let it go.
> 
> However early this year with a different club my son's team was not going to state cup and we requetsed a releas so he can play national cup with another team and he was approved.
> 
> So it really depends on the club.


So you don't know that an appeal will most likely be denied because you have never filed an appeal.  There are some real jerk coaches and I would have to image that if you appeal it and have a valid reason, Calsouth would look at the best interest of the child.

Now if the only reason they want to move is to be on a more winning team, I would hope that they tell the family to pound sand.


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## espola (Nov 19, 2017)

Fact said:


> So you don't know that an appeal will most likely be denied because you have never filed an appeal.  There are some real jerk coaches and I would have to image that if you appeal it and have a valid reason, Calsouth would look at the best interest of the child.
> 
> Now if the only reason they want to move is to be on a more winning team, I would hope that they tell the family to pound sand.


The attitude of Cal South has varied over the years.  During the Mullen anti-Presidency, a lot of player-unfriendly rules and policies were instituted.


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## Josep (Nov 19, 2017)

I have experienced this.  You need to be released from the club.  The club removes you from its insurance.  You contact cal south and ask for the player pass for your kid. 

You won’t likely be able to play in national cup   If you’re not granted the release, you can try to appeal.  Clubs get very bitter when big clusters of their teams leave for another and compete in cups.


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## Desert619 (Nov 19, 2017)

Fact said:


> So you don't know that an appeal will most likely be denied because you have never filed an appeal.  There are some real jerk coaches and I would have to image that if you appeal it and have a valid reason, Calsouth would look at the best interest of the child.
> 
> Now if the only reason they want to move is to be on a more winning team, I would hope that they tell the family to pound sand.



No, I don't know who reviews the appeal. I didn't feel it was worth paying the $100 and didn't want to take the chance of it being denied. Saying they will most likely deny it was more like my opinion. I didn't feel I had a strong case and the club already denied the original request through cal south. Jmo


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## Deadpoolscores! (Nov 20, 2017)

wildcat66 said:


> what if you ask for the card to guest play and just dont give it back???


Only thing can happen is that the coach will get mad and the chances of being release before Stat Cup are slim to none as a retaliation that's the reality. Coach's are not dumb about parents asking for their ID's before Thanksgiving, just be ready. After State Cup you should be fine, I just think its funny how clubs are having tryouts after Thanksgiving  not realizing that several of the players will most likely be denied transfer to another club especially if its a rival Club.


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## forsomuch (Nov 20, 2017)

If you are with a reputable club you most likely have a Registrar who knows the rules and will act accordingly. It has been my experience that coaches can be a bit emotional about it but the DOC and Registrar are far more pragmatic. Go online at CalSouth and formally request the release/transfer when the window opens and that starts the official process.


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## Overlap (Nov 20, 2017)

jimbohonky said:


> Much appreciated Overlap.
> I have zero reason to doubt you, but is this an actual rule or based on your experiences?
> Thanks for responding—sometimes responses are a bit brutal around here


yes, our club has had this happen on several occasions. We only had 1 situation where the DOC from another club really shafted the player, her team disbanded at the beginning of the season, she was moved to another roster on a different team within the old club, the DOC refused to release her until almost the middle of the season as they didn't want her helping another team. We've had others that have come to us during the season from SCDSL they were able to make the move right away, the CSL to CSL player's were cup tied however, the player(s) were so unhappy, they came across anyway. Just be upfront with what you're doing. The rules are posted on the CSl website so you can see how they work, I'm assuming they're posted on the SCDSL website as well....Best of luck!


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## Overlap (Nov 20, 2017)

Desert619 said:


> The club can deny your release request and you can appeal it for a fee but most likely it will be denied anyways.


they don't make it easy however, if the player isn't happy, it can be done.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Nov 20, 2017)

Overlap said:


> they don't make it easy however, if the player isn't happy, it can be done.


I've seen on multiple occasion players being unhappy and they were still with the team until State Cup was over.


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## Overlap (Nov 20, 2017)

Deadpoolscores! said:


> I've seen on multiple occasion players being unhappy and they were still with the team until State Cup was over.


They were probably quilted into staying, on one hand I would expect the player to fulfill their commitment but, the stories that I know about, the parents were fed up, can't say I blame them.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Nov 20, 2017)

Overlap said:


> They were probably quilted into staying, on one hand I would expect the player to fulfill their commitment but, the stories that I know about, the parents were fed up, can't say I blame them.


Well if they are leaving now the might as well train with the other team but expect not to participate in State Cup unless they get lucky and get the transfer/release approved.


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## jimbohonky (Nov 26, 2017)

Update:
Inspite of the threats and the extortion on the club's end, Cal South was excellent in handling this. It was all taken care of BEFORE the Nov 28th timeline. They were understanding and even unnecessarily apologetic. I was heartened to see that a big organization could still put a kid first.
Enjoy what's left of the weekend!


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## sandshark (Nov 27, 2017)

Pretend your not in the Youth Soccer world and you are just a regular person/parent reading this post about a persons little kids playing a sport, then ad in that the parents have shelled out $1000,00 & $1000.00's for this sport and now they are concerned if the current team coach will allow YOUR child to go play on another team! WTH has happened here!? This is INSANE we pay and they think they dictate when and where our children can play? Talk about one sided deals.


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## Deadpoolscores! (Nov 27, 2017)

sandshark said:


> Pretend your not in the Youth Soccer world and you are just a regular person/parent reading this post about a persons little kids playing a sport, then ad in that the parents have shelled out $1000,00 & $1000.00's for this sport and now they are concerned if the current team coach will allow YOUR child to go play on another team! WTH has happened here!? This is INSANE we pay and they think they dictate when and where our children can play? Talk about one sided deals.


That sounds like my wife..."Talk about one sided deals"


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