# US Soccer and Volkswagen



## timbuck (Jan 14, 2019)

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2019/01/14/14/46/20190114-us-soccer-volkswagen-of-america-announce-landmark-multi-year-presenting-partnership

This should make for a fun thread.  I'm gonna hold back my comments for a bit.


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## Multi Sport (Jan 14, 2019)

timbuck said:


> https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2019/01/14/14/46/20190114-us-soccer-volkswagen-of-america-announce-landmark-multi-year-presenting-partnership
> 
> This should make for a fun thread.  I'm gonna hold back my comments for a bit.


I like it..


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## jpeter (Jan 14, 2019)

So SUM marketing sold out to a Germany company so they could put there logo on USA national team and usdda jeseys.

"As part of the historic partnership, Volkswagen will have branding on training tops for all U.S. Soccer National Teams, including the Men’s and Women’s National Teams, all Youth National Teams and the Para 7-a-side, Beach and Futsal National Teams, and the U.S. Soccer Development Academy"

If you want to know what's wrong with soccer in the USA:   Soccer United Marketing (SUM) and welcome to the sell out team.


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## Kicker4Life (Jan 14, 2019)

You think they are the only Nat’l team do do so?


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## jpeter (Jan 14, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> You think they are the only Nat’l team do do so?


Yeah I heard Montengro was mulling offers from "American Standard"  and other foreign plumbing companies...


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## Multi Sport (Jan 14, 2019)

jpeter said:


> So SUM marketing sold out to a Germany company so they could put there logo on USA national team and usdda jeseys.
> 
> "As part of the historic partnership, Volkswagen will have branding on training tops for all U.S. Soccer National Teams, including the Men’s and Women’s National Teams, all Youth National Teams and the Para 7-a-side, Beach and Futsal National Teams, and the U.S. Soccer Development Academy"
> 
> If you want to know what's wrong with soccer in the USA:   Soccer United Marketing (SUM) and welcome to the sell out team.


If the end result is more $ for training, education, facilities, equipment etc then it's a win for US Soccer. Now if they use the money to give the higher ups a raise well that wpuld be unfortunate. I for one would buy a US Soccer jersey now because of the VW logo on it but that's because I have 66' VW...


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## Overlap (Jan 14, 2019)

timbuck said:


> https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2019/01/14/14/46/20190114-us-soccer-volkswagen-of-america-announce-landmark-multi-year-presenting-partnership
> 
> This should make for a fun thread.  I'm gonna hold back my comments for a bit.


this one is too easy....(sorry, I didn't need to read this)...to know their results will be investigated for tampering of the numbers however, only when someone is actually looking


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## espola (Jan 14, 2019)

Multi Sport said:


> If the end result is more $ for training, education, facilities, equipment etc then it's a win for US Soccer. Now if they use the money to give the higher ups a raise well that wpuld be unfortunate. I for one would buy a US Soccer jersey now because of the VW logo on it but that's because I have 66' VW...


My first car was a 10-year-old '60 bug.  Sold it for parts after I bought a new '71 SuperBug.  Sold that for parts 11 years later.  Later on, I bought a new '85 Jetta, which I then used as an excuse for a date with the receptionist in our building ("I need a ride to go pick up my new car.").  A couple of years later she married me, and after the birth of our third child, I sold the Jetta in '93 to a couple of Iranian guys who paid cash in $100 bills.


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## jpeter (Jan 14, 2019)

espola said:


> My first car was a 10-year-old '60 bug.  Sold it for parts after I bought a new '71 SuperBug.  Sold that for parts 11 years later.  Later on, I bought a new '85 Jetta, which I then used as an excuse for a date with the receptionist in our building ("I need a ride to go pick up my new car.").  A couple of years later she married me, and after the birth of our third child, I sold the Jetta in '93 to a couple of Iranian guys who paid cash in $100 bills.


Regular pulp fiction going on.. 

In other news VW is sumbitting throw back jesery designs for the new 3rd.


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## transplant (Jan 14, 2019)

History of German & US companies sponsoring other national teams... Granted this is the jersey that someone needs to make - so similar but different.

*2018 WORLD CUP JERSEY SPONSORS*

*adidas (12) –* Argentina, Belgium, Colombia, Egypt, Germany, Iran, Japan, Mexico, Morocco, Russia, Spain, Sweden
*Nike (10) –* Australia, Brazil, Croatia, England, France, Nigeria, Poland, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, South Korea
*Puma (3) –* Senegal, Switzerland, Uruguay
*New Balance (2) –* Costa Rica, Panama
*Umbro (2) –* Peru, Serbia
*Errea (1) –* Iceland
*Hummel (1) –* Denmark
*Uhlsport (1) –* Tunisia


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## toucan (Jan 14, 2019)

Volkswagen?  The official car of the 1000-year Reich?  A company that used enslaved Jews in WWII?  

I know that today's Volkswagen is not the same as in the '30s and '40s.  But some things you shouldn't forget.  Volkswagen was a major supporter the Reich.  Around 60 million people died in WWII, about a half-a-million of whom were Americans.   

And now we are putting its name on AMERICA'S jersey.  Nothing about this looks right to me.


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## espola (Jan 14, 2019)

toucan said:


> Volkswagen?  The official car of the 1000-year Reich?  A company that used enslaved Jews in WWII?
> 
> I know that today's Volkswagen is not the same as in the '30s and '40s.  But some things you shouldn't forget.  Volkswagen was a major supporter the Reich.  Around 60 million people died in WWII, about a half-a-million of whom were Americans.
> 
> And now we are putting its name on AMERICA'S jersey.  Nothing about this looks right to me.


You don't have to look that far back to find their emissions-testing scandal.


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## Simisoccerfan (Jan 14, 2019)

I am glad my daughter is moving on to college this year.  Otherwise it would be three more new jerseys to buy so that the VW logo can be displayed.


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## toucan (Jan 14, 2019)

espola said:


> You don't have to look that far back to find their emissions-testing scandal.


I agree.  But I think their WWII activities are more important.  Volkswagen supplied munitions to the German Army.  Those munitions killed Americans (and many others).  There are many Americans today who lost fathers and brothers to those very munitions.   To say the optics are wrong on this is to be understated.


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## mirage (Jan 14, 2019)

I find the logo ugly and out of proportion to the jersey.  The fact that its a multinational company HQ'd in Germany is simply the fact of life these days.  VW announced today that they are investing $800m in their Tennessee VW auto plant to build electric vehicles for US.

The question you have to ask yourselves is would you feel any different if it was an American company's (say GM for Ford or for that matter Tesla) logo?  I mean the Chevy logo on ManU jersey is fugly at best.  If the answer is the same, then just be glad that someone is willing to sponsor our program.  If its different, then what are you prepared to do about it?

Its easy to get wrapped up on the national team and pride thing - I get it.  Just remember this though.  Every time any of us buy VW/Audi, or Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, or MB, BMW, they may be made in US but the PROFIT from them are all going back to their mother country - Germany or Japan.  So are you more upset when they sponsor our national teams or when your own money goes to them....


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## mirage (Jan 14, 2019)

toucan said:


> I agree.  But I think their WWII activities are more important.  Volkswagen supplied munitions to the German Army.  Those munitions killed Americans (and many others).  There are many Americans today who lost fathers and brothers to those very munitions.   To say the optics are wrong on this is to be understated.


I can picture image of Nazi solders riding in what became VW bug years later.  I'm sure you've seen similar images.  The problem with singling out VW is that at that time, nearly 100% of industry in Germany was under the Reich.

MB parent company made Messerschmidt fighter aircraft, and BMW made aircraft engines for them.    Similar argument can be made to just about every Axis side industries - Japan, Italy.  Japanese consortium industries that built Zero fighters that killed thousands at Pearl Harbor, now trace its heritage to Mitsubishi, Fuji/Subaru, Heavy Industries.  Toyota providing vehicles, like VW, and Honda with their motorcycles?  The heavy industries are now a vital part of Boeing aircraft (e.g., 787) so there's that too.

Fully appreciate your point and none of us should ever forget what had happened, not just in WWII but many times since (e.g., Bosnia) across the world.


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## espola (Jan 14, 2019)

toucan said:


> I agree.  But I think their WWII activities are more important.  Volkswagen supplied munitions to the German Army.  Those munitions killed Americans (and many others).  There are many Americans today who lost fathers and brothers to those very munitions.   To say the optics are wrong on this is to be understated.


No one who participated in the Nazi VW era is still working at VW (and likely not still living).  On the other hand, the emissions test cheats are still there.


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## espola (Jan 14, 2019)

mirage said:


> I can picture image of Nazi solders riding in what became VW bug years later.  I'm sure you've seen similar images.  The problem with singling out VW is that at that time, nearly 100% of industry in Germany was under the Reich.
> 
> MB parent company made Messerschmidt fighter aircraft, and BMW made aircraft engines for them.    Similar argument can be made to just about every Axis side industries - Japan, Italy.  Japanese consortium industries that built Zero fighters that killed thousands at Pearl Harbor, now trace its heritage to Mitsubishi, Fuji/Subaru, Heavy Industries.  Toyota providing vehicles, like VW, and Honda with their motorcycles?  The heavy industries are now a vital part of Boeing aircraft (e.g., 787) so there's that too.
> 
> Fully appreciate your point and none of us should ever forget what had happened, not just in WWII but many times since (e.g., Bosnia) across the world.


As recently  as the 80's, Toshiba in Japan ignored a ban on selling advanced machine tools to the Soviet Union that allowed them to produce very quiet submarine propellers.  For a time, the US Navy looked negatively at any product from US suppliers that included any Toshiba components.  Personally, I stayed away from Toshiba parts for the remainder of my career.


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## toucan (Jan 14, 2019)

espola said:


> As recently  as the 80's, Toshiba in Japan ignored a ban on selling advanced machine tools to the Soviet Union that allowed them to produce very quiet submarine propellers.  For a time, the US Navy looked negatively at any product from US suppliers that included any Toshiba components.  Personally, I stayed away from Toshiba parts for the remainder of my career.


I think I saw those propellers in The Hunt for Red October.  Thank goodness for Jack Ryan.


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## MWN (Jan 14, 2019)

toucan said:


> I agree.  But I think their WWII activities are more important.  Volkswagen supplied munitions to the German Army.  Those munitions killed Americans (and many others).  There are many Americans today who lost fathers and brothers to those very munitions.   To say the optics are wrong on this is to be understated.


Well, it was Austrian Ferdinand Porsche who helped start Volkswagen, so we need to add Porsche to the list.  But, since we are focused on VW, let's also not forget that after WWII, VW became a focal point in the rebuilding efforts by the allies, so we should also probably shun those damn allies, including the Americans who helped rebuild VW.

I have a serious problem punishing the "sons" for the sins of their "fathers."  When we do, we have to decide how far back we go.  WWII was 70+ years ago.  But if we are going to hold the 2018 VW USA responsible for the acts of 1938 VW Germany under Nazi control, we also should hold Mitsubishi (who made the Zero).  Ohh crap ... Mercedez Benz was also complicit by selling stuff to the Nazis.  

But is 70 years enough, should we go back further?  How about WWI, or the Civil War or the Revolutionary War or the Mexican-American War.

I say, we go back 4 years and no more.  Let's hold a grudge for about 4 years, then after that we get on with our lives.


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## espola (Jan 14, 2019)

toucan said:


> I think I saw those propellers in The Hunt for Red October.  Thank goodness for Jack Ryan.


That was fiction (although many parts of HfRO "exposed" some facts that those in the Navy had assumed all along were secret, and Clancy had to prove to US Naval Institute (his publisher - their first bestseller) were public knowledge).  The Toshiba deal is fact.


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## toucan (Jan 14, 2019)

MWN said:


> Well, it was Austrian Ferdinand Porsche who helped start Volkswagen, so we need to add Porsche to the list.  But, since we are focused on VW, let's also not forget that after WWII, VW became a focal point in the rebuilding efforts by the allies, so we should also probably shun those damn allies, including the Americans who helped rebuild VW.
> 
> I have a serious problem punishing the "sons" for the sins of their "fathers."  When we do, we have to decide how far back we go.  WWII was 70+ years ago.  But if we are going to hold the 2018 VW USA responsible for the acts of 1938 VW Germany under Nazi control, we also should hold Mitsubishi (who made the Zero).  Ohh crap ... Mercedez Benz was also complicit by selling stuff to the Nazis.
> 
> ...


You are not wrong on any part of that history.  Yes, the war is over.  Today, Americans and Germans are connected as part of a global economy.  Surf parents own VW stock.  FRAM's halftime snack is sauerbraten.  Legends' fathers wear lederhosen.  Slammers mothers coif their armpits in ancient Teutonic fashion.  

But I don't buy the "sins of the father" argument.  You wouldn't put the Confederate Flag on the US national uniform, even though nobody alive today fought in the Civil War.  That would send the wrong message, and the passage of time since the Civil War doesn't change that.  I feel the same way about the VW logo.


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## timbuck (Jan 14, 2019)

Lots of comments that I expected.
I'm no fan of  a German company sponsoring our US National Team.

Here is an excerpt from the press release:
“We are extremely excited to work together with Volkswagen to help us continue to grow soccer in the United States,” said Flynn. “Volkswagen will be one of the most active and visible partners U.S. Soccer has ever had, *providing us with additional resources for more programs* that can impact and help develop the sport, while also allowing us to reach more fans of the game across the country. We look forward to the next four years together as we drive towards our mission of becoming the preeminent sport in the United States.”

As part of the historic partnership, Volkswagen will have *branding on training tops for all U.S. Soccer National Teams, including the Men’s and Women’s National Teams, all Youth National Teams and the Para 7-a-side, Beach and Futsal National Teams, and the U.S. Soccer Development Academy*. "

I highlighted the areas that I am curious about.
1.  How much did VW pay?  Who else was submitted competing bids?  Does anyone at the exec level of US Soccer and/or SUM have any position at VW?
2.  How will that money be allocated?
3.  What "additional resources for more programs"?  What resources?  What programs?
4.  You are gonna have the DA Youth teams wearing a logo?  I certainly hope that one of the "resources for programs" is that all DA players are able to play for free.

How long has Volkswagen cared about soccer in the US?  They had some "cute" commercials during the World Cup.  But only the first 10,000 times that I saw them.  Then they became annoying by the 2nd week.

I get that we are now a global economy and that VW may provide a lot of jobs for Americans.  I just would have really liked to have seen an "American" brand name on the jersey of our National Team.
Auto:  Chevrolet, Ford, Chrysler (or any of their sub brands - GMC, Cadillac, Lincoln, Buick, etc).
Retail: Home Depot, Target, Wal-Mart
Technology:  Google, Cisco, ATT, Microsoft, etc
Banking:  Bank of America, Wells Fargo (I guess they are Mexico fans - boooo!!!)
Airlines: United, American, Southwest
OR what about a just a big giant NIKE symbol?

All of these make way more sense (to me) than Volkswagen.


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## espola (Jan 14, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Lots of comments that I expected.
> I'm no fan of  a German company sponsoring our US National Team.
> 
> Here is an excerpt from the press release:
> ...


Chrysler is now a subsidiary of a Dutch company.


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## timbuck (Jan 14, 2019)

espola said:


> Chrysler is now a subsidiary of a Dutch company.


Yeah-  but they made the LeBaron and the Córdoba.  So they get a pass for life.


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## espola (Jan 14, 2019)

toucan said:


> You are not wrong on any part of that history.  Yes, the war is over.  Today, Americans and Germans are connected as part of a global economy.  Surf parents own VW stock.  FRAM's halftime snack is sauerbraten.  Legends' fathers wear lederhosen.  Slammers mothers coif their armpits in ancient Teutonic fashion.
> 
> But I don't buy the "sins of the father" argument.  You wouldn't put the Confederate Flag on the US national uniform, even though nobody alive today fought in the Civil War.  That would send the wrong message, and the passage of time since the Civil War doesn't change that.  I feel the same way about the VW logo.


You don't have to look too closely at the Mississippi state flag to see the similarity --


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## Multi Sport (Jan 14, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Yeah-  but they made the LeBaron and the Córdoba.  So they get a pass for life.


And those are such typical American names..


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## Kicker4Life (Jan 14, 2019)

We are really stretching for something to be offended about....smh.   Where does it end?


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## pewpew (Jan 14, 2019)

1. The 2018 VW Atlas SUV we bought is a POS. So my vote is NO.

2. Zildjian Cymbals is one of the world's oldest family businesses. Over 400 years. Originated in Constantinople..what is now Turkey. Been in the US since 1929. Is that American enough?? Still family owned/run. I'm sure there'd be some haters who don't like the way the logo looks. Probably too middle-eastern looking for some given the current War on Terror etc. etc.  (I'm very thankful for the L80 line of noise-reducing cymbals they make. Makes listening to my son smash those things much easier given the reduced noise.)

But yes it's true..you can't hold current VW accountable for what happened decades ago. I'm sure if my grandfather was alive today he wouldn't have an issue with this. He flew 30 missions in a B-17 in the European Theater of WWII fighting the Nazis. I highly doubt he'd be holding a grudge and be against seeing that logo on the front of any of his great-grandkid's jerseys.  

I am curious though to see how much work US Soccer put into trying to secure an American-made company on the front of the jersey. 
Anheuser-Busch would've been another cool choice. Born in America over 160yrs ago. Until they sold out to a Euro company.


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## MWN (Jan 15, 2019)

VW has previously sponsored MLS teams, VW also owns a soccer team in Germany, VW was also a main advertiser with Fox for the last World Cup.  When selling "sponsorship" deals, the first step in getting maximum value for the sponsoree is to articulate the value proposition.  There are only a handful of companies that understand and/or buy-in to the value proposition for US Soccer (NFL, MLB, NBA are entirely different propositions).

VW is one of a just a few companies that have buy-in when it comes to soccer.  Then we have to look at what other companies already have deals or are acceptable to US Soccer.  Alcohol producers may/may not fly as the "Presenting Sponsor" on the jersey's of the U15/U17/U20 teams. 

The other great thing about VW is they F'ed up big time and were fined billions by the US Government very recently for that whole diesel thing.  VW is looking for a win in the US.  I believe that VW was probably willing to overpay the true value of the sponsorship given its existing buy-in to the sport AND its desperate need to generate some goodwill with the US public.


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## MWN (Jan 15, 2019)

... and you have this:
https://www.motor1.com/news/270043/vw-sales-down-due-wltp/

I suspect that US Soccer / SUM probably got the best deal on the table given VW's current situation.


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## OrangeCountyDad (Jan 15, 2019)

VW directly employs ~8,000 American workers, plus indirectly everyone at the ~1,000 dealerships nationwide.  There are few 'pure' American companies to support our national teams, and if no one is stepping up with the sponsorship the Federation believes we need, do they trim the program?  Shut down teams?  Reduce staff?


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## Multi Sport (Jan 15, 2019)

Is Ford American enough?

VW and Ford just announced a joint venture to build cars together. Maybe they can put a Ford logo on the sleeve.

Will that mean USMNT will be better now?


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## jpeter (Jan 15, 2019)

OrangeCountyDad said:


> VW directly employs ~8,000 American workers, plus indirectly everyone at the ~1,000 dealerships nationwide.  There are few 'pure' American companies to support our national teams, and if no one is stepping up with the sponsorship the Federation believes we need, do they trim the program?  Shut down teams?  Reduce staff?


There are literally thousands of american based companies that employ thousands of people each so instead of sticking to America first let's go with a foreign multi national instead.

Cutting programs? Why?  they are sitting on 100mil+ in excess revenue as it is.  Expanding program perhaps but that could have been done with any sponsorship.

Selling a larger ulgy spot on the front of jesery's so kids can advertise for them is not something I really support.   MLS clubs are going to say no thanks anyway since they have other licensing deals that would conflict but the others and national teams are now branded with that huge fugly logo for the next x number of years.  The logo is about 4x the size of the usa one on the jeserys for example.


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## watfly (Jan 15, 2019)

I generally don't agree with much that US Soccer does but I think this is a good move for the most part.  A not-for-profit's (yes we can argue about that when you consider the relationship with SUM) primary responsibility is fundraising.  I think partnering with an iconic brand (with an iconic logo) committed to soccer is a good thing.  While the Nazi objection seems far fetched given VW of 2019,  I do understand the sentiment for the preference for an American company.  US Soccer's PR is horrendous so they might not thought that one all the way through, but if the price was right I can't fault them.

I have to ask, is there any car more representative of SoCal culture than a 60's VW?  Maybe I'm biased because my first car was a '69 Squareback and I have a loosely held belief that everyone's first car should be a VW.  I give credit to VW for bringing an affordable car to the masses...the people's car.

My biggest concern is what US Soccer is going to do with the money.  They're track record of failing to invest in youth soccer is a big issue as to why we can't develop world class players.


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## Kicker4Life (Jan 15, 2019)

jpeter said:


> There are literally thousands of american based companies that employ thousands of people each so instead of sticking to America first let's go with a foreign multi national instead.
> 
> Cutting programs? Why?  they are sitting on 100mil+ in excess revenue as it is.  Expanding program perhaps but that could have been done with any sponsorship.
> 
> Selling a larger ulgy spot on the front of jesery's so kids can advertise for them is not something I really support.   MLS clubs are going to say no thanks anyway since they have other licensing deals that would conflict but the others and national teams are now branded with that huge fugly logo for the next x number of years.  The logo is about 4x the size of the usa one on the jeserys for example.


Like the MLS sponsorship by Audi?


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## jpeter (Jan 15, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> Like the MLS sponsorship by Audi?


No the MLS "Audi" playoffs and player index is not the USA national team or youth academy and they don't wear a huge  Audi logo on the front of there jeserys either with maybe DC United the one expection since they are directly sponsored by VW not indirectly.

One team one nation and oh by they way one German mutlti national company.


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## Kicker4Life (Jan 15, 2019)

jpeter said:


> No the MLS "Audi" playoffs and player index is not the USA national team or youth academy and they don't wear a huge  Audi logo on the front of there jeserys either with maybe DC United the one expection since they are directly sponsored by VW not indirectly.
> 
> One team one nation and oh by they way one German mutlti national company.


Them why don’t you complain to Chevy for sponsoring a foreign Soccer team over the US National Team??


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## timbuck (Jan 15, 2019)

I heard the guy who did the deal with ManU at Chevy was let go shortly after the deal was signed. 
Chevy sells very few cars in the UK (so I’ve heard. No research to back this up) and the higher ups over there were pissed about the deal. 
I wonder how it’s worked out for them since?


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## Messi>CR7 (Jan 15, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> We are really stretching for something to be offended about....smh.   Where does it end?


Other than the ugliness (size, placement) of it, I don't think many would find it offensive.  What's offensive is losing to Trinidad and Tobago when everything was on the line.  The design of the jersey is the least of our problems.


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## jpeter (Jan 15, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> Them why don’t you complain to Chevy for sponsoring a foreign Soccer team over the US National Team??


I could care less about somebody's else's national team or Chevy, this is about the USA national, youth teams, and the SUM sell out agreement done without consulting people here.

Nothing screams America like a big foreign car logo on a national team jesery.

This may well be a commercial win for somebody but when you put $$ over country people will voice there opinions.

Lets see some of VW money be used for something rather than adding to the triple digits xxx $millions$ war chest they have already accumulated and are not spending or investing in soccer.

How about increasing their network of scouts, inevesting in infrastructure, fields, more grassroots programs  in urban and rural areas, lessen the financial burden on parents, coaches,  quit depending on "clubs" to fund just about everything but a couple hundred (fed poverty level) kids who get a token amt spendt on travel.

If these items listed aren’t being benefitted from the deal, then wearing somebody else's logo and advertising for them for 4 years doesn't seem like a good deal to me.


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## Kicker4Life (Jan 15, 2019)

jpeter said:


> I could care less about somebody's else's national team or Chevy, this is about the USA national, youth teams, and the SUM sell out agreement done without consulting people here.
> 
> Nothing screams America like a big foreign car logo on a national team jesery.
> 
> ...


Like I said....some people need to find something to be offended by..guess you didn’t have to look to far.  Better go check the US Sailing Team too as they are also sponsored by a foreign company.  

I guess it’s ok to accept their jobs and tax revenue but unpatriotic to have them in your Nat’l team jersey.


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## MWN (Jan 15, 2019)

@jpeter 
Out of curiosity, what do you believe is an acceptable amount for a non-profit like US Soccer to retain as liquid reserves and investment?


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## Messi>CR7 (Jan 15, 2019)

timbuck said:


> I heard the guy who did the deal with ManU at Chevy was let go shortly after the deal was signed.
> Chevy sells very few cars in the UK (so I’ve heard. No research to back this up) and the higher ups over there were pissed about the deal.
> I wonder how it’s worked out for them since?


If you watch a typical EPL game, you will see many Chinese ads flashing through the electronic billboards behind the pitch.  For a global brand like ManU, I imagine for any given match there are more people watching it globally than domestically.  Therefore, putting a global brand like Chevy on ManU jerseys makes sense even if Chevy sells very few cars in the UK.

However, no one I know in China pays any attention to USMNT .


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## watfly (Jan 15, 2019)

MWN said:


> @jpeter
> Out of curiosity, what do you believe is an acceptable amount for a non-profit like US Soccer to retain as liquid reserves and investment?


MWN, I'm in no way siding with JPeter, and I don't know what the proper amount of reserves should be without looking at their financials and projections. What I do know is that US Soccer's level of investment in developing youth soccer is not acceptable.  They only gave out 580 scholarships for DA last year and other than providing the framework and paying for refs (which cost is covered in part with fees we pay to DA) US Soccer has very little investment in youth soccer.   It's particularly small in relation to the amount paid by parents to the DA clubs to have US Soccer limit when and where their child plays soccer.  US Soccer's lack of buy-in along with its arrogance is why it has failed, and will fail at developing players in its programs.


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## Speed (Jan 15, 2019)

pewpew said:


> 1. The 2018 VW Atlas SUV we bought is a POS. So my vote is NO.
> 
> 2. Zildjian Cymbals is one of the world's oldest family businesses. Over 400 years. Originated in Constantinople..what is now Turkey. Been in the US since 1929. Is that American enough?? Still family owned/run. I'm sure there'd be some haters who don't like the way the logo looks. Probably too middle-eastern looking for some given the current War on Terror etc. etc.  (I'm very thankful for the L80 line of noise-reducing cymbals they make. Makes listening to my son smash those things much easier given the reduced noise.)
> 
> ...


oh man I was considering the atlas!


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## MWN (Jan 15, 2019)

@watfly,
The opinion you expressed is inconsistent with the organizational structure of US Soccer.  US Soccer is a National Governing Body (NGB) under the Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act.  Under US Soccer's Bylaws it is supposed to support "youth participation" through its "Youth Council," the members of which are US Youth Soccer, US Club Soccer and AYSO.  There is a professional council (MLS, USL, and NWSL) and an amature adult council.  The structure of US Soccer is supposed to be that US Soccer:

Fields the National Teams (USMNT and USWNT and the youth all-star teams USYNT)
Promotes the sport through its Councils (National Council, made up of the Adult, Pro and Youth)
Regulates the Sport
The Development Academy is just a league that US Soccer created outside its Youth Council, which really pissed off the Youth Council members, especially US Club and US Youth and it continues to create an internal political problem for US Soccer in this regard.  The MLS (Pro Adult Council member) goaded US Soccer into creating the league, which is hindsight was probably a mistake, but at the time the MLS needed some Federation assistance because US Club and US Youth were not inclined to play the MLS' game.

From a pure organizational standpoint.  US Soccer IS NOT SUPPOSED to make direct investments to Youth programs, that is the job of the Youth Councils.  The Youth Council members are supposed to raise their own funds and promote their vision of youth soccer, without much interference from the Federation or the National Council.  US Soccer, through the National Council assists the various Councils (Pro, Adult and Youth), helps set their budgets and also makes (or did make) donations to the US Soccer Foundation (a separate 501(c)(3)).

The problem we get into is the vast amount of money that US Soccer receives is generated from its National Team activities and alot of it is earmarked for reinvestment back into the National Team activities.  If we redirect those funds to the Youth Council, the National Team suffers.

Are you suggesting that we rewrite the US Soccer Bylaws?  Article 312 relates to the Youth Council.
https://www.ussoccer.com/about/governance/bylaws


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## MWN (Jan 15, 2019)

Oops ... forgot about the Athletes Council.


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## watfly (Jan 15, 2019)

MWN said:


> @watfly,
> The opinion you expressed is inconsistent with the organizational structure of US Soccer.  US Soccer is a National Governing Body (NGB) under the Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act.  Under US Soccer's Bylaws it is supposed to support "youth participation" through its "Youth Council," the members of which are US Youth Soccer, US Club Soccer and AYSO.  There is a professional council (MLS, USL, and NWSL) and an amature adult council.  The structure of US Soccer is supposed to be that US Soccer:
> 
> Fields the National Teams (USMNT and USWNT and the youth all-star teams USYNT)
> ...


Thanks for the info, so not only is US Soccer arrogant and incompetent they are structurally flawed as a result of its bylaws.  US Soccer can't have it both ways. It can't create its own league, DA, that is the alleged "pathway" to the USNT and to "create world class players" and fund it just a little bit and expect it to be successful.  This is a classic example of "put your money where your mouth is".   This is also a prime example of US Soccer's arrogance, it put its name on it, you pay for it and then tell you when and where your kids will play.  If it wants to create its own league that serves as a pathway to its National Team then it should put more "skin in the game".  If its bylaws prevent it from investing in and promoting youth programs then it shouldn't be allowed to have the DA, which while minimal, it is investing in, or change its bylaws to allow investment in a DA program.  You also state that it's up to the Youth Councils to promote their vision of youth soccer and raise funds for it and that according to the bylaws US Soccer is not to interfere with that vision.  Well just a heads up, but US Soccer is interfering with the Youth Councils visions with its own vision of youth soccer through the DA.  Not only is it generally interfering with the Youth Council's vision of youth soccer, but on top of that its explicitly controlling players and preventing them from having any other "vision" but that of US Soccer's.  If you want to shove your own vision as the top league down everyone's throats than you should raise your own funds to promote it just like the Youth Council's are required.    US Soccer should either be all in (or at least a sizable investment) on DA, or all out.  They're half assing right now which is why it hasn't been successful.  Is there anything in the US Soccer bylaws that prevents them in investing in coaching education?  Because improved, more available and lower cost training would go a long way to improve youth soccer.


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## jose (Jan 15, 2019)

I wish YUGO was still around and they were the sponsor


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## LASTMAN14 (Jan 15, 2019)

jose said:


> I wish YUGO was still around and they were the sponsor


They once were a sponsor of the US Men’s Volleyball team around 92’. I remember seeing Karch Kiraly, Steve Timmons, and Eric Sato all drive up to a game in theirs.


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## jose (Jan 15, 2019)

LASTMAN14 said:


> They once were a sponsor of the US Men’s Volleyball team around 92’. I remember seeing Karch Kiraly, Steve Timmons, and Eric Sato all drive up to a game in theirs.


Nice!


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## LASTMAN14 (Jan 15, 2019)

Kicker4Life said:


> Like I said....some people need to find something to be offended by..guess you didn’t have to look to far.  Better go check the US Sailing Team too as they are also sponsored by a foreign company.
> 
> I guess it’s ok to accept their jobs and tax revenue but unpatriotic to have them in your Nat’l team jersey.


Here are a few more Fortune 500 companies who had their hand in the Nazi Regime. Let’s go get em!
http://www.cracked.com/article_15767_third-reich-to-fortune-500-five-popular-brands-nazis-gave-us.html


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## timbuck (Jan 15, 2019)

Surprised IKEA wasn’t on the list.  My father in law refuses to step foot in one because they were sympathizers.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jan 15, 2019)

timbuck said:


> Surprised IKEA wasn’t on the list.  My father in law refuses to step foot in one because they were sympathizers.


So were the Swiss. Let’s ban Federer?! They were not really. But let’s still ban him. He’s so boring.


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## timbuck (Jan 15, 2019)

He also refuses to buy a bmw or Mercedes. But drives a Lexus. I guess Pearl Harbor wasn’t that big of a deal to him.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jan 15, 2019)

timbuck said:


> He also refuses to buy a bmw or Mercedes. But drives a Lexus. I guess Pearl Harbor wasn’t that big of a deal to him.


Did he explain that one to you?  My wife’s grandfather (who is still living) survived the attack on Pearl Harbor. He’s okay with German and Japanese vechicles.


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## LASTMAN14 (Jan 15, 2019)

pewpew said:


> 1. The 2018 VW Atlas SUV we bought is a POS. So my vote is NO.
> 
> 2. Zildjian Cymbals is one of the world's oldest family businesses. Over 400 years. Originated in Constantinople..what is now Turkey. Been in the US since 1929. Is that American enough?? Still family owned/run. I'm sure there'd be some haters who don't like the way the logo looks. Probably too middle-eastern looking for some given the current War on Terror etc. etc.  (I'm very thankful for the L80 line of noise-reducing cymbals they make. Makes listening to my son smash those things much easier given the reduced noise.)
> 
> ...


I test drove the VW Atlas I passed on it. Though I did have a 2004 VW Touareg V8 All Motion. I have to say it was a badass vehicle. Chirped on corners. It was the one year it was almost identical to the Cayenne Turbo.


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## PaytoplayinLancaster? (Jan 15, 2019)

I’m curious how many boycotters of brands served their country?  One of the reasons why taxpayer bailout money went to the auto industry wasn’t to keep capitalism alive.  It was to keep them in business in case we need production of military items.


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## jpeter (Jan 16, 2019)

Can’t say I’m a fan of the big ole sponsor logo taking over the front of jersey’s, hard to see or tell what’s being represented when the large “XYZ” logo is centered & so much bigger than the team name which is off to the side often for example.

There has been previous USA Olympic sport programs sponsored by foreign companies out of desperation, hope, or whatever the case was from the one of the worst made vehicles of all time: Yugo to Mizuno a Japanese company that makes pretty good quality products.

Last article I read was that USSF has/had $100-110 million dollars in reserves or investments and SUM operates as a *subsidiary* of Major League Soccer.

That relationship and that fact that SUM negotiated this deal is what is troubling to me. Is MLS calling the shots for the National, Youth teams, and for US soccer  through a company; Soccer United Marketing LLC that very few know anything about and was only reportedly created for “Marketing” purposes by MLS but now does much more than that in reality.

Somethings don’t jive quit right in this setup and the legal, marketing, accounting and Investment activities/costs could be quiet high as a result. Perhaps so much they can take away from the actual positive impacts or contributions to us soccer, especially from a youth or coaching standpoint. For example of the 500+ or so scholarships given by USSDA to low income participates that amounts to slightly more than 600k a year. The coaching courses to advance licenses have go up in price while there are fewer offered.

So what does USSF actually spend there profit on from the national teams and tournaments? How much of every dollar do they take in goes to SUM? or what are they spending on legal, marketing, investment, and accounting fees/costs per year?

SUM and other firms are not working for the USSF for free and they do get a cut of these deals, % of whatever it is but of course this is not advertised or transparent at all. Cost of doing business related to what they are contributing to US soccer is what? For every 100 million in profit what in the world are they doing with it?

Where is the return on the investment? Adding reserves for what? A rainy day when the US women don’t make the cut seems unlikely so why do they need these large amounts stashed anyway for a non profit? Just in case fewer people decide to buy ticket to the national team tour events, gold cup or whatever?

Seeing how soccer is what the 3rd or 4th most popular played sport now in the USA, there should be enough possible sponsors to choose from where we don’t need to react out of desperation or greed & take on some questionable deals without regard to how the general public may receive them or not. By the reaction on the USSF sites and others so far appears to be a negative overall on this VW deal but there is always Fahrvergnügen to fall back on maybe VW with paint some of there autos red, white, and blue so the USSF & SUM folks have some new rides to the showcases or events.


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## MWN (Jan 16, 2019)

You are correct that SUM is a separate entity owned by the MLS.  The MLS is itself an LLC, which owns all of the teams and gives its "members" (i.e. owners) a right to operate an MLS team.  All players are employed, not by the teams, but the MLS, which creates its own issues.

With regard to SUM, I don't have too many issues with SUM negotiating this deal because US Soccer has contracted with SUM to go out and negotiate marketing deals on its behalf.  SUM has the resources and skill set to do that and are experts in the vertical soccer market.  Where I get concerned is when the marketing deal involves multiple entities as does the current TV Deal (MLS and US Soccer).  I would much rather have US Soccer outsource its PR and marketing to agencies than do it inhouse at this stage because I firmly believe that whatever commission will be paid, the expert 3rd party will cover it a multiple of times over by securing better deals given its broader power in the market.

What we know is that US Soccer has not had a "presenting sponsor" willing to pay an 8 figure fee (somewhere between 10,000,000 and 99,999,999), so its found money as far as I'm concerned.  

The general rule of thumb for a non-profit is to have at a minimum 6 months of reserves, up to 24 months of reserves.  US Soccer's operating budget is roughly $125m, so its sitting on 12 months of liquid reserves ($130m).  I personally believe that 24 months is about right, given the 2 to 4 year revenue cycle and significant costs associated with operating the Federation.  US Soccer's income is not a straight line but a mountain range, with highs and lows.  When the US National Teams do well, we get peaks, when they don't we get valleys, we also get valley when we have to invest in various competitions.  24 months of reserves is about right, so I wholeheartedly disagree with everybody that looks at that $100M as something that should be disbursed now.  It would be negligent management for the federation to reduce the reserves, which is one of the reasons Cordiero was elected as President, he advocated for growing the reserves ... _but what does he know, he is just a Harvard educated international banker with more financial experience than everybody participating on this thread combined_.

As to some of your other points, I would strongly encourage you (all) to go read the audited financials from last year.  The SUM agreement is described and we know that the SUM marketing relationship has been good for about $25M annually.  https://www.ussoccer.com/about/federation-services/resource-center/financial-information

At the end of the day, US Soccer the role of the Federation is limited.  It oversees and guides the Council members.  Its fields the national team, but all the heavy lifting for youth is supposed to flow through AYSO, US Club, US Youth Soccer, which all have their own separate budgets.  When youth players register to play soccer, only $1 of those registration fees flow up to US Soccer.  I think $1 is ridiculously low, but it makes perfect sense when you consider that the role of US Soccer is limited and the heavy lifting is the obligation of AYSO, US Club and US Youth Soccer.


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## watfly (Jan 16, 2019)

MWN said:


> The general rule of thumb for a non-profit is to have at a minimum 6 months of reserves, up to 24 months of reserves.  US Soccer's operating budget is roughly $125m, so its sitting on 12 months of liquid reserves ($130m).  I personally believe that 24 months is about right, given the 2 to 4 year revenue cycle and significant costs associated with operating the Federation.  US Soccer's income is not a straight line but a mountain range, with highs and lows.  When the US National Teams do well, we get peaks, when they don't we get valleys, we also get valley when we have to invest in various competitions.  24 months of reserves is about right, so I wholeheartedly disagree with everybody that looks at that $100M as something that should be disbursed now.  It would be negligent management for the federation to reduce the reserves, which is one of the reasons Cordiero was elected as President, he advocated for growing the reserves ... _but what does he know, he is just a Harvard educated international banker with more financial experience than everybody participating on this thread combined_.


I don't disagree with this at all.  In fact, I would give Cordiero a high grade for his fundraising efforts which is his primary responsibility as President.  However, for now I can't give him a passing grade on the operational side.  If US Soccer is going to meddle in the domain of youth soccer with DA then they should make a meaningful investment in DA.  If they can't make the investment then they should get out of the DA business.   It's ludicrous to develop a program and not invest in it.   I couldn't care less whether they can't fund it because of structural issues or arrogance.


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## jpeter (Jan 16, 2019)

MWN said:


> You are correct that SUM is a separate entity owned by the MLS.  The MLS is itself an LLC, which owns all of the teams and gives its "members" (i.e. owners) a right to operate an MLS team.  All players are employed, not by the teams, but the MLS, which creates its own issues.
> 
> With regard to SUM, I don't have too many issues with SUM negotiating this deal because US Soccer has contracted with SUM to go out and negotiate marketing deals on its behalf.  SUM has the resources and skill set to do that and are experts in the vertical soccer market.  Where I get concerned is when the marketing deal involves multiple entities as does the current TV Deal (MLS and US Soccer).  I would much rather have US Soccer outsource its PR and marketing to agencies than do it inhouse at this stage because I firmly believe that whatever commission will be paid, the expert 3rd party will cover it a multiple of times over by securing better deals given its broader power in the market.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the info but disagree, having worked with non profits.   

"For seven consecutive years Nonprofit Finance Fund’s State of the Sector report revealed that less than 25% percent of those nonprofits responding had more than 6 months of cash in reserve. In fact the majority of the nonprofits responding reported that they had less than three months of operating reserves on hand. And close to 10% had less than thirty days of cash on hand. This may be the reality for many nonprofits, but that does not mean that it is optimal.

Many nonprofit boards adopt policies to maintain an operating reserve because of the conventional wisdom that it is prudent to have some cash set aside “for a rainy day.” More realistically, rather than a rainy day, it may be that the nonprofit’s roof unexpectedly needs replacing, or a long-term funding stream unexpectedly dries up, or anticipated program revenue is not as high as projected. When the unexpected financial shortfall occurs, having cash reserves to tap can help a nonprofit sustain itself in spite of very tough times"

"It is absolutely true that every nonprofit needs to have adequate cash balances available to support the timing of payroll and other expenses, as well as to pay for unanticipated costs or increases. It’s a myth, however, that a single standard applies for all nonprofits.
– Kate Barr, Executive Director, Nonprofits Assistance Fund
https://www.councilofnonprofits.org/tools-resources/operating-reserves-nonprofits

So the ussf president is going to use some of VW money to add more to the reserves apparently but the reserves haven't skunk in the last 3 years apparently but you never know and it's better to stockpile that additional money than use it to improve soccer in the USA.


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## OrangeCountyDad (Jan 18, 2019)

jpeter said:


> There are literally thousands of american based companies that employ thousands of people each so instead of sticking to America first let's go with a foreign multi national instead.


which domestic company was approached for sponsorship and turned it down?


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## MWN (Jan 18, 2019)

OrangeCountyDad said:


> which domestic company was approached for sponsorship and turned it down?


We can assume with fairly good certainty that these companies were approached:
https://www.ussoccer.com/about/sponsors

@jpeter the maximum sponsorship value will only flow to multinational companies.  If the company doesn't have an equal presence in the US, Latin America, Europe and Africa, the value of becoming a "presenting sponsor" is minimized.  The companies that have a good presence worldwide will receive the maximum benefit from having their logo on a National jersey.  To get a sense of value, take a look at this, which is for the Premiere League: http://www.sportspromedia.com/analysis/premier-league-preview-2018-19-sponsors-kit-deals-every-club


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## oh canada (Jan 19, 2019)

It's only on the training jerseys -- no big deal

Now, whether SUM is actually doing their job depends on how much the deal is worth.  I haven't seen any specific $$ numbers, only "8-figure deal" -- 1oMM vs. 3oMM is a big difference.  US Soccer should have to disclose the terms.

As a comparison - DC United did a deal with your same Volkswagen in 2008 -- 5 years, $14MM.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soccer-insider/wp/2013/12/04/volkswagen-ends-d-c-united-jersey-sponsorship/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.909345fe606f

SUM better had far exceeded that amount.  If they did, then great, $$ for the programs has to come from somewhere.  If anyone can find the terms of the deal, please share.  The fact that the details are not being trumpeted by US Soccer don't give me a lot of confidence that it does.


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