# Club soccer reaching $5k a year??



## SoccerFan4Life (Jan 8, 2020)

I never thought it would be possible but I heard that a new club in Orange County is charging around $3,500 to $4,000 a year.   Jerseys are not included. 

Stop the madness parents!!, you are the consumer and there’s an excess of clubs right Now.


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## Mic Nificent (Jan 8, 2020)

They will continue to charge those prices and raise them as long as parents are willing to pay. At some point we as parents need to take ownership and not feed into that demand.


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## Soccerfan2 (Jan 8, 2020)

$4k for 10 months. 3 days a week practice at an hour and a half plus about 40 games at 2 hrs is somewhere around 260 total hrs for the year. That breaks down to paying just over $15 per hour. What structured activity can you put your child in that costs less per hour than that?
If you just want less days of soccer, there are options for that instead - Rec, city teams etc. Or, the park and some friends are always free.


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## timbuck (Jan 8, 2020)

$15 per hour x 15 kids per team. 
$225 per hour per team. 
slam 4 team onto a field
Charge $300 for uniforms. 
Tough way to get rich, but not a bad way to make a few bucks.


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## JabroniBeater805 (Jan 8, 2020)

What club?


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## Grace T. (Jan 8, 2020)

Another relevant question is if State Cup and how many tournaments are included.  Tournaments are getting quite expensive.


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## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 8, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I never thought it would be possible but I heard that a new club in Orange County is charging around $3,500 to $4,000 a year.   Jerseys are not included.
> 
> Stop the madness parents!!, you are the consumer and there’s an excess of clubs right Now.


Yikes!


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## StrikerOC (Jan 9, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> $4k for 10 months. 3 days a week practice at an hour and a half plus about 40 games at 2 hrs is somewhere around 260 total hrs for the year. That breaks down to paying just over $15 per hour. What structured activity can you put your child in that costs less per hour than that?
> If you just want less days of soccer, there are options for that instead - Rec, city teams etc. Or, the park and some friends are always free.


If you want to pay that amount, by all means, do. Most parents know that the former Slammers turned LA Galaxy OC turned Liverpool is not worth a fraction of that price. I'm all for letting clubs charge whatever people are willing to pay but I think the point of the post was there are way better options that provide a better ROI than this club.


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## blam (Jan 9, 2020)

Homeowner association, condo maintsinsce fees, mello roos and property taxes are what milks me dry. Can't wait for Andrew yang to be President to help me with the freedom dividend.


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## wsf (Jan 9, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I never thought it would be possible but I heard that a new club in Orange County is charging around $3,500 to $4,000 a year.   Jerseys are not included.
> 
> Stop the madness parents!!, you are the consumer and there’s an excess of clubs right Now.


Be glad you don't have a ballet dancer.  Soccer is barely a fraction of what classical ballet costs annually.  I'm sure you could say the same for hockey, baseball and tackle football... I hear those are costly as well.


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## aong cangkol (Jan 9, 2020)

We are the consumer, so why people are so upset about club membership fee? Just find other club or other activity.
My kids swim club is charging $2400/yr + swim meet fee (+/-$250/yr) +20 volunteer hours.
Their current soccer club is charging less than 2000 + uniform+tournament
Of course I wish it is cheaper...maybe I should just play with them in park and community pool.
...and their YMCA after school care is $12000/yr (I think it is the cheapest in the area except for free care by family).


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## Mic Nificent (Jan 9, 2020)

Let’s not forget tournaments, gas, hotels, eating out during out of town tournaments. It all adds up and trust me it’s no where near $15 per hour........


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## JumboJack (Jan 9, 2020)

Since I joined this group I have seen quite a few people hating on club soccer. The "club soccer mafia". Well unlike the mafia, nobody is holding a gun to your head. Why in the world do they stay involved if it is so horrible? You are free to stop at anytime.


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## Soccerhelper (Jan 9, 2020)

JumboJack said:


> Since I joined this group I have seen quite a few people hating on club soccer. The "club soccer mafia". Well unlike the mafia, nobody is holding a gun to your head. Why in the world do they stay involved if it is so horrible? You are free to stop at anytime.


Great question and welcome to the fabulous socal soccer forum JJ.  I was thinking the same thing the other day.  No gun to my head ever.  I even went to google in 2010 and typed, "Club soccer temecula."  Everything was so awesome and fun until USSF/DA changed to birth year and made a new league.  I don;t know what level your goat is Jumbo Jack, but my dd was born to play this game just like the poor kids all over the world.  I tried to get her to bail out last year if truth be told and just play HS soccer and maybe "guest" play for an ECNL or DA team as DP.  No travel out of Socal. We took 2nd half off for the most part last year (a few games as a "DP" player for Blues DA) and let my dd have the time of her life and take the whole summer off for the first time since she was 7.  We talked as a family for a long time and I was 100% no more. My dd has a friend from school who had just joined ECNL and didn't know anyone on her new team. My dd came to me and said she has now thought about it long & hard and now wants to go to college and play soccer.  So she asked if I could reach out to the ecnl coach.  This was in July right before deadline.  I called the soccer coach to see if he had any spots open.  He had one.  I asked what he was looking for and he said someone who can play with other girls and help us score more goals.  I said, "deal."  So, we take it one year at a time now.  I think it's too expensive for middle to lower class to poor folks here in OC. Hard enough to live in OC without soccer.  We need a less expensive entrance so all kids have a chance at the prize.  Sorry, I went too long. I talk to much. Peace JJ!


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## Mic Nificent (Jan 9, 2020)

I don’t recall it being horrible. Just over priced and expensive. As are most things in life. We either choose to pay the price or go elsewhere


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## mirage (Jan 9, 2020)

is this cost for LAG/OC now Liverpool ?

Our son is in this club but its he's last year (senior in HS) so we are not affected but yikes.  Its getting high enough that it surely makes every parents take notice and consider alternatives (i.e., other clubs).

When compared to other youth activities, I know its competitive or even considered still low but they don't all have to cost the same, just because they can. 

I guess its a luxury tax for living behind the orange curtain....


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## Simisoccerfan (Jan 9, 2020)

If it results in your kid getting to play college soccer then the invest is well worth it.


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## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 9, 2020)

The presidential candidate that creates a tax break for soccer fees/youth sports activities gets my vote lol.  That’d be a nice lil annual write off.


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## timbuck (Jan 9, 2020)

Bri’s-DAD said:


> The presidential candidate that creates a tax break for soccer fees/youth sports activities gets my vote lol.  That’d be a nice lil annual write off.


I’d be happy if they just passed a law that games can’t start before 9:30 am.


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## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 9, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I’d be happy if they just passed a law that games can’t start before 9:30 am.


Lmao...  Preach!!!


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## Soccerfan2 (Jan 9, 2020)

StrikerOC said:


> If you want to pay that amount, by all means, do. Most parents know that the former Slammers turned LA Galaxy OC turned Liverpool is not worth a fraction of that price. I'm all for letting clubs charge whatever people are willing to pay but I think the point of the post was there are way better options that provide a better ROI than this club.


My comment wasn’t specific to any club. I’m not even in SoCal. It was just a general point that $4k a year is not unreasonable for comp soccer when compared to other activities with equal time commitments.


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## zebrafish (Jan 9, 2020)

I'm sure a family doing DA or ECNL spends far in excess of 5K/year when one takes into account travel/hotels/food


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## futboldad1 (Jan 9, 2020)

zebrafish said:


> I'm sure a family doing DA or ECNL spends far in excess of 5K/year when one takes into account travel/hotels/food


But they at least get DA or ECNL exposure and competition....plus the travel and experiences makes for some cool memories....btw none of this is advocating for crazy club fees like 5k btw....


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## Not_that_Serious (Jan 10, 2020)

zebrafish said:


> I'm sure a family doing DA or ECNL spends far in excess of 5K/year when one takes into account travel/hotels/food


Just played in a tournament with many ECNL teams in it - teams were not very good. Many of the teams are just cash cows. Very few clubs really can provide quality training that would warrant anything near $4k a year - especially if it isn’t something labeled DA or ECNL. Liverpool/Galaxy just uses the fact parents at lower flights will pay a premium to have their kids play at “higher” levels. So you’ll see a bunch of tier3 kids playing flight2 and flight1 because they’ll pay - nothing new. As long as parents chase the status and the club  keeps selling the way they do (harvesting kids from rec) - they’ll keep the cash coming in.
Some of these clubs, like wannabe Liverpool, don’t run training on 10mos cycle. In fact they pretty much lock kids in by end of Dec - coaches actually reprimanded (and worse) if the rosters aren’t full going in to Jan. That means they are paid 2-3 months in advanced and money sitting in the bank. A few clubs work this way but some are more heavy-handed with employees, and manipulative, in order to make the money. Yet same clubs preach “core values”, “family” and “development” - too bad a lot of ignorant customers in the marketplace.


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## Soccerhelper (Jan 10, 2020)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Just played in a tournament with many ECNL teams in it - teams were not very good. Many of the teams are just cash cows. Very few clubs really can provide quality training that would warrant anything near $4k a year - especially if it isn’t something labeled DA or ECNL. Liverpool/Galaxy just uses the fact parents at lower flights will pay a premium to have their kids play at “higher” levels. So you’ll see a bunch of tier3 kids playing flight2 and flight1 because they’ll pay - nothing new. As long as parents chase the status and the club  keeps selling the way they do (harvesting kids from rec) - they’ll keep the cash coming in.
> Some of these clubs, like wannabe Liverpool, don’t run training on 10mos cycle. In fact they pretty much lock kids in by end of Dec - coaches actually reprimanded (and worse) if the rosters aren’t full going in to Jan. That means they are paid 2-3 months in advanced and money sitting in the bank. A few clubs work this way but some are more heavy-handed with employees, and manipulative, in order to make the money. Yet same clubs preach “core values”, “family” and “development” - too bad a lot of ignorant customers in the marketplace.


It's $10K now to play serious ball and Hope Solo says for some who have to travel like AZ teams it can be up to $15K.  Cash cow plus side thrills for some Docs were all finding out.  Pay all this money to join a freaking frat house and I'm the crazy one?  Please stop already they say.....


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## Dirtnap (Jan 10, 2020)

timbuck said:


> I’d be happy if they just passed a law that games can’t start before 9:30 am.


Preach It!! Friends dd had to leave our vacation early over New Years for a tourney. the first game Saturday 7:45 am second game Saturday 7:00 pm. SMH


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## futboldad1 (Jan 10, 2020)

Not_that_Serious said:


> Just played in a tournament with many ECNL teams in it - teams were not very good. Many of the teams are just cash cows. Very few clubs really can provide quality training that would warrant anything near $4k a year - especially if it isn’t something labeled DA or ECNL. Liverpool/Galaxy just uses the fact parents at lower flights will pay a premium to have their kids play at “higher” levels. So you’ll see a bunch of tier3 kids playing flight2 and flight1 because they’ll pay - nothing new. As long as parents chase the status and the club  keeps selling the way they do (harvesting kids from rec) - they’ll keep the cash coming in.
> Some of these clubs, like wannabe Liverpool, don’t run training on 10mos cycle. In fact they pretty much lock kids in by end of Dec - coaches actually reprimanded (and worse) if the rosters aren’t full going in to Jan. That means they are paid 2-3 months in advanced and money sitting in the bank. A few clubs work this way but some are more heavy-handed with employees, and manipulative, in order to make the money. Yet same clubs preach “core values”, “family” and “development” - too bad a lot of ignorant customers in the marketplace.


overall I agree with your post bro....but one thing I gots to say I hear this a lot about DA and ECNL teams, they aren't that good....it's true that several are not, but the overall standard is far higher in DA and ECNL....it's this way by design, not saying it's moral but it's a fact....and most weeks youre playing a talented and well coached opponent.....and most clubs fees for GDA and ECNL are nowhere near $4k which is why this OC Liverpool thing seems out of its mind.....overall couldn't agree more about the $$ manipulation in club soccer....but I'm currently paying for GDA for my kid as she doesn't want to play flight 2 opposition (not saying there aren't some v talented DDs still out there) which is generally what every team is at U14 and above that isn't playing GDA or ECNL....again I want to be clear that I don't love the system but it is what it is.....


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## SoccerFan4Life (Jan 10, 2020)

The purpose of this thread was really to show how in a matter of 5 years, we have seen a huge increase in club soccer fees.     The fact is that we are the customer and should demand lower fees by saying no to $4k+ a year.     
 I am not referring to DA or ECNL.

  I’m just saying that we are allowing clubs to charge so much because we believe our kids will get better training and can move up to flight 1.      This is killing the quality of the sport and the very  good players from middle or lower income are getting lost in this money game.   Find those clubs that are not charging so much if you have kids at flight 3/2 or even flight 1


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## StrikerOC (Jan 10, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> My comment wasn’t specific to any club. I’m not even in SoCal. It was just a general point that $4k a year is not unreasonable for comp soccer when compared to other activities with equal time commitments.


It actually is... Now if you don't place value on what you're spending your money on OR you're just looking to pay a bunch of money to keep your kid active I kinda see where you're coming from. $4k/yr is $333/month (not factoring in other expenses associated with club) which is equal to a car payment.


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## Grace T. (Jan 10, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> I’m just saying that we are allowing clubs to charge so much because we believe our kids will get better training and can move up to flight 1.      This is killing the quality of the sport and the very  good players from middle or lower income are getting lost in this money game.   Find those clubs that are not charging so much if you have kids at flight 3/2 or even flight 1


The experience of AYSO as it created United to compete in the club environment is instructive here. EXTRAs (the next tier below) is relatively inexpensive (in our area just a few hundred for the entire year) but it relies heavily on parent volunteers.  As AYSO began United, it relied on the same model, but it kept the fees low by relying on parent volunteers.  Sure, this is the cream of the crop when it comes to AYSO, so the coaches generally knew what they were doing when it came to soccer (YMMV).  But there were also some problems that came with it.

In our own local area it led to a lack of accountability in coaches (some bad behavior on the part of some, ranging from not taking preparing a session plan seriously, to not doing the education and meetings, to screaming at the kids and more serious stuff), an attitude obsessed with winning, or coaches just not being on the same page with a training philosophy.  AYSO as a result has had to try to reign some of this stuff in and impose uniformity by professionalizing those overseeing the volunteer coaching staff (so the DOCs are no longer volunteers) and some regions going as far as paying coaches to get that accountability.  As a result, costs in our local region are rising for United.  Not the $4000 for club soccer but also no longer at the EXTRAs level.  Costs are also kept low since United has access to the AYSO sweetheart deals for the fields, and only one tournament and State Cup are included in the cost.  

So the United experience is a mixed bag: much more affordable than some other clubs, but it also comes with some negatives, and it's also not accessible for the true poor either (though richer regions like ours do provide scholarships which suppose to be need, not performance, based, though YMMV).  There's one maxim that's been repeatedly true in my life: you get what you pay for....sure you can find a bargain but it takes some looking, a little luck, and they are few and far between.

As I always say, you can have your soccer accessible, developmental, or competitive (pick 2).


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## Soccerfan2 (Jan 10, 2020)

StrikerOC said:


> It actually is... Now if you don't place value on what you're spending your money on OR you're just looking to pay a bunch of money to keep your kid active I kinda see where you're coming from. $4k/yr is $333/month (not factoring in other expenses associated with club) which is equal to a car payment.


What competitive level activities can you put your kid in 4 days a week for 1-2 hrs a day that cost less than that?
Are dance, baseball, volleyball, football, cheer, piano less than that? I don’t think so.
It’s up to each person to decide how much they want to spend on kid activities each month.  I just don’t find soccer to be an more expensive per hour than anything else comparable.


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## mirage (Jan 10, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> What competitive level activities can you put your kid in 4 days a week for 1-2 hrs a day that cost less than that?.....


I know, right!  What a first-world problem we have here.  Gotta spend few thousand dollars a year to pay some adults to let kids play sports.  We all rationalize however we can to continue the cottage industry of youth sports as we bitch, moan and snivel how bad the coaching is, or that the tournaments suck or starts too early....

In our case, we have two kids that play(ed) club sports so we have helped continue the youth sports industry - guilty!

The biggest problem I have with club sports is that they monetary interest ahead of the sports.  I believe when CSL was the only game in town, how they limited only 3. teams per age group per club, they forced clubs to be more selective as to who they took onto their teams.  Additionally there were plenty of competition between clubs for different cost structure as well as quality of the organization.  Today, we have handful of mega clubs that boasts 5, 10, 15 teams per age group, when looking at all of their locations.  There is no limit to how many teams they can have for any age group - more the merrier because its more money!  They have given a new definition to what an economies of scale means.

Just for the record, I understand why this has happened and, while I don't like it, it is what it is.  That said, the SoCal soccer scene in particular is ripe for disruption.  It just requires group of smart people to understand the true objectives of club soccer from the consumer perspective, and start a new structure.


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## Eagle33 (Jan 10, 2020)

I have noticed that most car dealerships going to no haggle pricing - all their used car salesmen coaching soccer now.


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## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 10, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I have noticed that most car dealerships going to no haggle pricing - all their used car salesmen coaching soccer now.


It’s like dealing with a car dealership...  you shop around for the best offer and research which one will include all the bells and whistles!  But in the end you always feel like you’ve been had lol.  I want a contract that stipulates no early games.  early start games are BS.


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## Soccerhelper (Jan 10, 2020)

Eagle33 said:


> I have noticed that most car dealerships going to no haggle pricing - all their used car salesmen coaching soccer now.


My dd car was all free and with unlimited gas. Not a bad deal, right? Why would I (poor dad) walk away from free money at the #1 club in da country and a chance for her to claim her prize?  Like I said in my other personalities, we only got free for a few months until I saw all the stuff and confronted the great Doc of all time.  We bailed for greener pasture with JH and Legends and the story continues.....


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## Not_that_Serious (Jan 10, 2020)

futboldad1 said:


> overall I agree with your post bro....but one thing I gots to say I hear this a lot about DA and ECNL teams, they aren't that good....it's true that several are not, but the overall standard is far higher in DA and ECNL....it's this way by design, not saying it's moral but it's a fact....and most weeks youre playing a talented and well coached opponent.....and most clubs fees for GDA and ECNL are nowhere near $4k which is why this OC Liverpool thing seems out of its mind.....overall couldn't agree more about the $$ manipulation in club soccer....but I'm currently paying for GDA for my kid as she doesn't want to play flight 2 opposition (not saying there aren't some v talented DDs still out there) which is generally what every team is at U14 and above that isn't playing GDA or ECNL....again I want to be clear that I don't love the system but it is what it is.....


What I was getting at. At some places you are training 4x a week. Places like Galaxy and other “premier” teams still train 2x a week and have skill days done by other staff or by trainers hired just to do skill training. In the 80s there were teams charging $3-4K - but were also the top travel teams. As a business you get what you can, but as mentioned, not at the expense of treating people (coaches and children) like crap


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## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 10, 2020)

Soccerhelper said:


> My dd car was all free and with unlimited gas. Not a bad deal, right? Why would I (poor dad) walk away from free money at the #1 club in da country and a chance for her to claim her prize?  Like I said in my other personalities, we only got free for a few months until I saw all the stuff and confronted the great Doc of all time.  We bailed for greener pasture with JH and Legends and the story continues.....


Nothing in life is free... You have to pay the piper one way or another brother!


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## Soccerhelper (Jan 10, 2020)

Bri’s-DAD said:


> Nothing in life is free... You have to pay the piper one way or another brother!


Trust me, I know brother


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## socalkdg (Jan 10, 2020)

I spend more on keeper gloves and keeper training than team fees as we are fortunate to find a small club that is able to keep its players.   This is So Cal.  You can find good coaching and competitive teams without spending 5K per year, which isn’t even that high compared to many other sports.  Be happy we have tons of choice.  Many other states aren’t as fortunate.


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## met61 (Jan 12, 2020)

Bri’s-DAD said:


> The presidential candidate that creates a tax break for soccer fees/youth sports activities gets my vote lol.  That’d be a nice lil annual write off.


I'll take school voucher before club sports.


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## blam (Jan 12, 2020)

met61 said:


> I'll take school voucher before club sports.


Freedom dividend from andrew yang gives you complete freedom how you want you spend it.


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## zebrafish (Jan 12, 2020)

I'll comment here that bashing OC Blades/Slammers/Galaxy/Liverpool has some merit (as does bashing virtually every club out there for something), but let's also take into account the cost of living in OC is way above that in many other places, and this naturally trickles down into other areas. 

As an example, my kid's orthodontic quote in OC was like 3-4k out-of-pocket beyond my dental insurance. When I drive an hour and enter Riverside County, I found an orthodontist where I had to pay nothing out-of-pocket for braces-- so the cost was like double in OC. Same goes for real estate and just about everything else.

So I could probably find myself a cheap soccer team far from my home, but driving there 3-4x per week is just not feasible.


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## OCsoccerdad7777 (Jan 12, 2020)

The problem is that they are charging almost double of what other *OC* clubs are now charging. Again, people have a choice to not go there, but what they are charging for what you actually get is pretty crazy. IF what people are quoting is true.


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## MSK357 (Jan 12, 2020)

blam said:


> Freedom dividend from andrew yang gives you complete freedom how you want you spend it.


Only for the middle and upper class though, the poor recieving over $1k in government subsidies are SOL if they choose to keep it since it's one or the other.  But like we were all taught in school, if everyone got an extra $1k every month, $1k wouldn't be worth $1k anymore.


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## Bri’s-DAD (Jan 13, 2020)

met61 said:


> I'll take school voucher before club sports.


Agreed


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