# Clubs Folding



## LB Mom 78 (May 10, 2020)

Does anyone else have a feeling many clubs will never return and be out of business after the lockdown is over? Surpisingly,  I have not heard of any yet and am curious if anyone has?


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## Banana Hammock (May 11, 2020)

I would guess that the clubs in trouble would just pay the coaches less try to stay in business.  They already have their current membership in whatever league they are ii and that is worth something.  Before they fold I would guess merger.


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## Venantsyo (May 11, 2020)

I guess the real extent of the damage will have to be calculated when we officially all go back to practicing and when we get asked to start contributing $$$. It is likely that current financial hardships on some families will naturally spill over to kids non-essential activities like soccer.


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## Son (May 11, 2020)

I can see a large drop in participation, either for financial reasons or for fear of infection.   Clubs that usually have three teams per age group, might have to field one or two teams.   That will cause unemployment for coaches and less revenue for clubs.


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## gkmom (May 11, 2020)

Tournaments are a big source of revenue for the clubs...no tournaments this summer at the very least. With the added loss of revenue from drop in participation, I'm not sure how clubs can pay coaches etc


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## Venantsyo (May 11, 2020)

Maybe coaches will have to settle for a drop in pay for the time being? What’s the alternative, raise fees?


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## jpeter (May 11, 2020)

That's a tough one, being at the mercy of the state, county, and cities on when can things can open back up.

Not to mention to school districts, colleges, or parks that have most of the facilities that required permits for practices & games.

Now that brings you to the sanctioning bodies like Cal South who have to decide to reinstate thier insurance they pulled so clubs can get those permits.

Need all those to work together to open things back up. 

Throwing dates out there is one thing making that a reality is another, let's hope they can all work together and get it done in reasonable time frames.


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## Technician72 (May 11, 2020)

Our family is still on the Arsenal mailing list and their ask for money is common from what I'm hearing from other clubs / families as well. That first payment as soon as possible to hold the clubs over. This is from May 6th:

_"We also want to take a moment to talk about some of the other impacts this crisis is having on our club. While it has created many unknowns, there is one thing we do know. It is clear that Arsenal’s budgets have been significantly impacted these last couple of months. Consequently we must all do our part to accelerate the registration process. We continue to ask those who can, to complete their Player Registration Online. Understandably this is the furthest thing from most of our minds, but with many fees for leagues, fields and all other club expenses coming due, this is a necessary must. Being a Non-Profit Organization, Arsenal FC runs very tight to budget to help assure we are keeping our costs as low as possible. As usual and especially through these unprecedented times, we are here to work with you if needed, and to assure your payment schedule fits you and the club."_


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## timbuck (May 11, 2020)

It will be very, very interesting to see how things wind up once we get back to soccer.
I think a lot of clubs/teams are playing "roster chicken" right now -  They are hopeful that they'll have full rosters, but they are very unsure.  They are afraid to ask families if they are planning to come back.  They are scared that if they ask, it will give them an out.  Or it will cause parents to think "will we even have a team when we come back? Should I start contacting other coaches/clubs to see if there is space on their team in case ours folds?"


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## Ellejustus (May 11, 2020)

timbuck said:


> It will be very, very interesting to see how things wind up once we get back to soccer.
> I think a lot of clubs/teams are playing "roster chicken" right now -  They are hopeful that they'll have full rosters, but they are very unsure.  They are afraid to ask families if they are planning to come back.  They are scared that if they ask, it will give them an out.  Or it will cause parents to think "will we even have a team when we come back? Should I start contacting other coaches/clubs to see if there is space on their team in case ours folds?"


As long as the deposit money is refundable, I have no problem with a club taking a deposit under these circumstances to lock in a spot for next season.  If I were a soccer coach, ((I would be a really good soccer coach btw)) I wouldn;t be telling the head doc I got 18 verbals for next season with a possible 5 more to set the roster for 23.  I know some clubs might close their doors because their tournaments helped them pay the bills so I would be careful this year about deposits at some places.


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## lafalafa (May 11, 2020)

Consider the economy 25% reported unemployment. Taking money now for a promise later I don't know if that's the best way to go unless it's voluntary and only 4 people still employed for example.  Refunds at almost all clubs are like pulling teeth, go ahead and pre register but other than that until fields are open.


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## Giesbock (May 11, 2020)

Can soccer clubs apply for the SBA PPP loan program? Or does their non-profit status disqualify them from that program?


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## Porkchop (May 11, 2020)

*Nonprofits* are *eligible* to apply for a *PPP* loan if: they are exempt from federal income tax under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code; they were in existence before March 1, 2020; they employ no more than 500 full-time and part-time employees whose principal place of residence is in the United States


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## timbuck (May 11, 2020)

This might be the chance for parents to re-write those contracts.
Typical club contract "You are signing up to play for the club, not for a specific coach or team.  All money is non-refundable"

What a parent should rewrite:

"We are including an initial deposit of $300 to secure our roster spot.  No further money will be taken until we have our 1st confirmed and official practice date at XYZ field with Coach Smith.  If another coach is assigned to our team, we will have 15 days to determine if we want to stay with this club/team.  A full refund of fees minus practice expenses will be returned within 7 business days if we decide to leave.  Practice expenses will be $30 per practice session.
If our team does not have at least 13 confirmed players (for 11v11) by July 15th, we will have the right to transfer to another club.  We will receive a refund, minus any practice expenses ($30 per session) within 7 days.
We will not be purchasing uniforms (game or practice) until we know for sure that a fall season will be played.  My kid will bring a black and a white shirt to all practices.
Remaining fees due will be paid on a monthly basis.  If at any point the season is suspended or cancelled, no further dues will be collected.
We expect that our team will play in at least 3 tournaments.  We will pay for all tournaments 30 days before the tournament is set to take place.  Even if our player is not able to attend, we understand that we will be expected to pay for at least 3 tournaments between June 1st 2020 and March 30, 2021.


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## Grace T. (May 11, 2020)

timbuck said:


> It will be very, very interesting to see how things wind up once we get back to soccer.
> I think a lot of clubs/teams are playing "roster chicken" right now -  They are hopeful that they'll have full rosters, but they are very unsure.  They are afraid to ask families if they are planning to come back.  They are scared that if they ask, it will give them an out.  Or it will cause parents to think "will we even have a team when we come back? Should I start contacting other coaches/clubs to see if there is space on their team in case ours folds?"


 About 1/4 of the public is still hiding out under their beds.  It's not just financial.  Even given the low risk to kids, some may be afraid if they ask now the answer will be no.  DOS's dojo just sent out an email asking all the parents if they'll be back pre or post vaccine so they can do some planning.


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## Grace T. (May 11, 2020)

Even if we resume for a fall season the turnaround is going to be very tight.  Large scale cattle call tryouts are never going to be approved in the near future by field renters and probably parents aren't going to be allowed on the field (hard to check out the new coach or other parents that way).  It's going to be a quick shuffle around and particularly new teams coming in online (the very youngers) are going to be very hard to organize.


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## LB Mom 78 (May 11, 2020)

Grace T. said:


> Even if we resume for a fall season the turnaround is going to be very tight.  Large scale cattle call tryouts are never going to be approved in the near future by field renters and probably parents aren't going to be allowed on the field (hard to check out the new coach or other parents that way).  It's going to be a quick shuffle around and particularly new teams coming in online (the very youngers) are going to be very hard to organize.


A lot of people are not coming back next year. This is going to get sad and ugly.


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## keeprunning (May 11, 2020)

I heard the Pats let go of their coaches. Does anyone know anything about this?


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## Fact (May 11, 2020)

LB Mom 78 said:


> Does anyone else have a feeling many clubs will never return and be out of business after the lockdown is over? Surpisingly,  I have not heard of any yet and am curious if anyone has?





LB Mom 78 said:


> A lot of people are not coming back next year. This is going to get sad and ugly.


Why do you keep pushing this narrative?  Wishful thinking on your part that the clubs you previously dissed wont be there to compete with you...fat chance.


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## 46n2 (May 11, 2020)

top teams will not have a problem getting their deposit.  don't pay , lose your spot simple....
practices will resume in early june
news on the street is 2 major clubs in LA are hit the hardest besides that shouldn't be that much fallout thru the first seeded teams , Id be more cautious of the #2 and #3 teams.
wish everyone luck 
I have a feeling it will get back to normal rather fast .


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## LB Mom 78 (May 11, 2020)

Fact said:


> Why do you keep pushing this narrative?  Wishful thinking on your part that the clubs you previously dissed wont be there to compete with you...fat chance.


I am not pushing any narrative just using logic and asking if anyone has heard anything concrete. I am confused by your comment about dissing clubs since I have done no such thing. Maybe you have me confused with someone else.


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## SoccerFan4Life (May 12, 2020)

June 1 and June 15 will be two important dates.   Clubs will begin to practice.  Covid is not going away but people will begin to take more risk.    I think that most parents want to get their kids out of the house and play sports.  The question is really how much are they are willing to pay.  Clubs need to charge significantly less than previous years.   Any club fee  above $2k is not worth it.


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## Speed (May 12, 2020)

Technician72 said:


> Our family is still on the Arsenal mailing list and their ask for money is common from what I'm hearing from other clubs / families as well. That first payment as soon as possible to hold the clubs over. This is from May 6th:
> 
> _"We also want to take a moment to talk about some of the other impacts this crisis is having on our club. While it has created many unknowns, there is one thing we do know. It is clear that Arsenal’s budgets have been significantly impacted these last couple of months. Consequently we must all do our part to accelerate the registration process. We continue to ask those who can, to complete their Player Registration Online. Understandably this is the furthest thing from most of our minds, but with many fees for leagues, fields and all other club expenses coming due, this is a necessary must. Being a Non-Profit Organization, Arsenal FC runs very tight to budget to help assure we are keeping our costs as low as possible. As usual and especially through these unprecedented times, we are here to work with you if needed, and to assure your payment schedule fits you and the club."_


what are fees for arsenal? those cannot be cheap


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## JumboJack (May 12, 2020)

While this is not club soccer related per se... My local AYSO region is cutting fees by 50% for the upcoming fall season.


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## Swoosh (May 12, 2020)

46n2 said:


> top teams will not have a problem getting their deposit.  don't pay , lose your spot simple....
> practices will resume in early june
> news on the street is 2 major clubs in LA are hit the hardest besides that shouldn't be that much fallout thru the first seeded teams , Id be more cautious of the #2 and #3 teams.
> wish everyone luck
> I have a feeling it will get back to normal rather fast .


Agree, all we have to do is find out what school district isn't practicing social distance and go rent their fields.


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## dad4 (May 12, 2020)

SoccerFan4Life said:


> June 1 and June 15 will be two important dates.   Clubs will begin to practice.  Covid is not going away but people will begin to take more risk.    I think that most parents want to get their kids out of the house and play sports.  The question is really how much are they are willing to pay.  Clubs need to charge significantly less than previous years.   Any club fee  above $2k is not worth it.


Any word on clubs actually cutting fees?  

Not sure how you can make that work financially unless you also go to a parent coached model.


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## timbuck (May 12, 2020)

dad4 said:


> Any word on clubs actually cutting fees?
> 
> Not sure how you can make that work financially unless you also go to a parent coached model.


Clubs that have coaches that also have non-soccer jobs may be the ones that survive this best. (Not necessarily parent coaches. But people who coach but don’t need the income).


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## lafalafa (May 12, 2020)

Right now the biggest concerns are insurance and field availability.   Cal South pulled there insurance so if and when they restate that Cubs will have a chance to apply for a permit.  Until then private facilities who can manage to get their own insurance or going to be the only option.

August is my guess for when Cal south gets going again and public facilities start permitting field usage again.


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## TOSDCI (May 12, 2020)

JumboJack said:


> While this is not club soccer related per se... My local AYSO region is cutting fees by 50% for the upcoming fall season.


I think that is great for AYSO.  However, there is no way SD Surf, Blues, Beach and Legends are cutting their fees.


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## JumboJack (May 12, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> I think that is great for AYSO.  However, there is no way SD Surf, Blues, Beach and Legends are cutting their fees.


Agreed...


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## lafalafa (May 12, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> I think that is great for AYSO.  However, there is no way SD Surf, Blues, Beach and Legends are cutting their fees.


Supply & demand.   If there are not enough people able to pay anymore with unemployment at 25% somethings are going to have to be adjusted.


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## dad4 (May 12, 2020)

TOSDCI said:


> I think that is great for AYSO.  However, there is no way SD Surf, Blues, Beach and Legends are cutting their fees.


They certainly won’t want to.

I can easily see parents of kids on lower teams begin leaving for smaller clubs and Mexican or recreational leagues.   When that happens, where does the money come from to pay for the premier teams?


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## ElChupacabra (May 12, 2020)

46n2 said:


> top teams will not have a problem getting their deposit.  don't pay , lose your spot simple....
> practices will resume in early june
> news on the street is 2 major clubs in LA are hit the hardest besides that shouldn't be that much fallout thru the first seeded teams , Id be more cautious of the #2 and #3 teams.
> wish everyone luck
> I have a feeling it will get back to normal rather fast .


What two major clubs in LA?


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## Esteban (May 12, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> Right now the biggest concerns are insurance and field availability.   Cal South pulled there insurance so if and when they restate that Cubs will have a chance to apply for a permit.  Until then private facilities who can manage to get their own insurance or going to be the only option.
> 
> August is my guess for when Cal south gets going again and public facilities start permitting field usage again.


LA County just extended their lockdown through July so this guess of August seems right (but it might be the best case scenario now):









						L.A. County safer-at-home orders to remain in place for several months, but ‘restrictions will be gradually relaxed’
					

Los Angeles County’s stay-at-home restrictions will likely last for three more months to combat the ongoing COVID-19 crisis, county public health Director Barbara Ferrer said at Tuesday’s Board of …




					ktla.com
				




So can our kids practice and scrimmage for all of August and then start league play right after Labor Day with no parents on the sidelines?  When the teams check in, will the refs or some other Cal South official take the temp of the players before the start of the games?


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## JumboJack (May 12, 2020)

Esteban said:


> LA County just extended their lockdown through July so this guess of August seems right (but it might be the best case scenario now):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Taking temps is not really going to do very much anywhere. Many/most people that are positive are asymptomatic and will not have a fever.


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## RedCard (May 15, 2020)

Esteban said:


> LA County just extended their lockdown through July so this guess of August seems right (but it might be the best case scenario now):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's not L.A. County , but it's L.A. City Mayor Eric Garcetti will be the biggest problem to get around for CalSouth to have a fall season. This guy is really flexing his muscles about this lockdown. Other cities in L.A. County are slowly opening up and aren't as strict about wearing mask outside, but Garcetti is making wearing a mask basically 24/7 mandatory. He's said he's not opening the City of Los Angeles until there is a cure for Coronavirus, which will be never. We don't have a cure for the common cold, flu, AIDS, or West Nile, so what make him think there will be a cure for this ?? The City of L.A. is huge, and a lot of clubs within the city practice and play on LAUSD property, which is of course shut down and will remain shut down through the entire summer. Clubs the Downtown LA SC, Tudela, LA Breakers, and any clubs in the San Fernando Valley are screwed.


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## jpeter (May 15, 2020)

RedCard said:


> It's not L.A. County , but it's L.A. City Mayor Eric Garcetti will be the biggest problem to get around for CalSouth to have a fall season. This guy is really flexing his muscles about this lockdown. Other cities in L.A. County are slowly opening up and aren't as strict about wearing mask outside, but Garcetti is making wearing a mask basically 24/7 mandatory. He's said he's not opening the City of Los Angeles until there is a cure for Coronavirus, which will be never. We don't have a cure for the common cold, flu, AIDS, or West Nile, so what make him think there will be a cure for this ?? The City of L.A. is huge, and a lot of clubs within the city practice and play on LAUSD property, which is of course shut down and will remain shut down through the entire summer. Clubs the Downtown LA SC, Tudela, LA Breakers, and any clubs in the San Fernando Valley are screwed.


The State, LA+ riverside counties, cities and some big insurance + facilities are some of the challenges for Cal South.

City of LA is smaller potatoes in comparison but does has a good number of training sites, School, colleges, stadiums, clubs around.


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## lafalafa (May 23, 2020)

GPS has some serious financial & legal problems,  filed for bankruptcy

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264035996754161677


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## timbuck (May 23, 2020)

lafalafa said:


> GPS has some serious financial & legal problems,  filed for bankruptcy
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264035996754161677


Because they brought over foreign coaches on bullshit visas and worked/treated them like rented mules (allegedly)


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## SoccerFan4Life (May 24, 2020)

timbuck said:


> Because they brought over foreign coaches on bullshit visas and worked/treated them like rented mules (allegedly)
> [/QUO]
> 
> Do they have any affiliates in SoCal?


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## Soccer43 (May 25, 2020)

GPS did not seem to function like a club - more like a parasite- it would “partner” with existing clubs and had a fancy website presenting itself as more than it was with “national” tournaments and training academies - in the end it seemed like a lot of smoke and mirrors and marketing


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