# Is USSDA working after 10 yrs?



## younothat (Jul 13, 2017)

After 10 years, is U.S. Soccer’s Development Academy working?

Experts are split on whether the DA is truly changing the youth soccer landscape.
Read more at https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/after-10-years-us-soccers-development-academy-working#ptEi4UGy1BK9vKry.99

For all the strides it has made, the Academy has not yet won over all its critics, many of whom complain about inflexibility, imbalance, travel and top-down organization. It’s a fair time to ask: Is the DA working?


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## True love (Jul 13, 2017)

I think, they should change the name from US Soccer Development Academy to "We just Want to Win academy. Because US Soccer Development Academy is all about Winning Winning Winning.


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## Wez (Jul 14, 2017)

True love said:


> I think, they should change the name from US Soccer Development Academy to "We just Want to Win academy. Because US Soccer Development Academy is all about Winning Winning Winning.


Not sure how this statement helps anyone, can you further explain your post?


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## espola (Jul 14, 2017)

True love said:


> I think, they should change the name from US Soccer Development Academy to "We just Want to Win academy. Because US Soccer Development Academy is all about Winning Winning Winning.


The first few years they acted like US Soccer Recruiting Academy.


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## ray8 (Jul 14, 2017)

Wez said:


> Not sure how this statement helps anyone, can you further explain your post?


Maybe I can help.
USSDA doesn't reward clubs who develop. Way too many clubs involved to keep track of player development.
If you win you get to play other clubs who win, vs very likely pseudo-academies, who don't belong anywhere near the word development. Add this to the fact that most academies are pay to play clubs who somehow got awarded the money maker logo. And more wins means more money.
If your boy isn't big and fast he will have a very difficult time as his academy years go by. No matter how good your team is in terms of real soccer talent, playing against big long-ball boys will be a flip of a coin.
What's left is not development, but soccer you'll see at any MLS game or USA vs Martinique.


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## Wez (Jul 14, 2017)

ray8 said:


> Maybe I can help.
> USSDA doesn't reward clubs who develop. Way too many clubs involved to keep track of player development.
> If you win you get to play other clubs who win, vs very likely pseudo-academies, who don't belong anywhere near the word development. Add this to the fact that most academies are pay to play clubs who somehow got awarded the money maker logo. And more wins means more money.
> If your boy isn't big and fast he will have a very difficult time as his academy years go by. No matter how good your team is in terms of real soccer talent, playing against big long-ball boys will be a flip of a coin.
> What's left is not development, but soccer you'll see at any MLS game or USA vs Martinique.


I get your point, but playing in the MIC tournament last April, it was clear that organizations like Barcelona and Real Madrid were producing teams that were there to win and it wasn't teams of giants.  Isn't the ultimate measure of development, wins?

Soccer in the US plays with all the athletes who chose not to play Football / Baseball / Basketball.  If soccer can figure out a way to attract our best athletes, we will start to win intl. competitions.  It feels to me like we're slowly moving in that direction.


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## Striker17 (Jul 15, 2017)

ray8 said:


> Maybe I can help.
> USSDA doesn't reward clubs who develop. Way too many clubs involved to keep track of player development.
> If you win you get to play other clubs who win, vs very likely pseudo-academies, who don't belong anywhere near the word development. Add this to the fact that most academies are pay to play clubs who somehow got awarded the money maker logo. And more wins means more money.
> If your boy isn't big and fast he will have a very difficult time as his academy years go by. No matter how good your team is in terms of real soccer talent, playing against big long-ball boys will be a flip of a coin.
> What's left is not development, but soccer you'll see at any MLS game or USA vs Martinique.


LAG vs Sounders game last night prefect example. Your post intrigued me so I watched.


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## jpeter (Jul 15, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> LAG vs Sounders game last night prefect example. Your post intrigued me so I watched.


Some great player's no doubt but they way the Galaxy coach keep his attacking players in when they where almost all cramping, limping, and could hardly even run was concerning to me.  What's going on with conditioning?  Are they over playing and training and why no sub for some fresh legs?   Haven't seen that many players laying on ground so much since like U10.    

My son has suffered additional injury and had to be carried off the field after coaches just won't sub for him during da games, even through he basically sat down and pleaded for subbing coaches left him in.   I hope the Galaxy players are ok, missing months to recover, going through PT just to win a youth game is not worth it IMO.


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## Striker17 (Jul 15, 2017)

I thought the same thing- 40 is quite incredible though


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## Art (Jul 15, 2017)

To be honest, USSF is looking for an identity in how to develop players and in all fairness we havent found that identity yet..getting closer but not there yet.

We have too many options, we have a clutter of playing options and were not getting the right mindset when developing players.

Our ideologies and beliefs arent one, we have a ton of conflicting ideas that are not allowing us to look at what our goal really is. 

I agree with the post that we have players that are just long ball and physical, demographically caucasians are winning at the youth levels, physically their just better. But when it comes to the ball movement the foreign immigrant status are doing a better job. Were Similar to the British. Soccer iq needs to develop not ATHLETES, we are way ahead in terms of physical preparedness, we just dont have the brains yet. We have raw ability, we need to convert it into something. So are we gonna actually address mental development more or are we gonna think about how strong physically were gonna get. Lets keep in mind conditioning and strength training arent the same thing. Take a look at Modric of madrid vs bradley of toronto, who wins physically? Bradley from the looks of it, but modric brain and ability would still beat him physically. Its about bridging that gap.

So is DA training developing world class talent...no, its not. Its just a serious and rigorous environment that will aid a player with natural talent even more. We cant expect all players to be mentally similar, not all will go through same path, not all will be professional level. Some things you cant rush or buy.

I also believe that the labeling were doing with DA, flight 1 bla bla bla doesnt help, we need to organize under 1 umbrella, its ridiculous that we have youth traveling the country for games when in our own backyard we have so many teams and players. 

For Socal, lets merge coast league with scdsl  and have best teams from scdsl and coast go at it along with DA teams, thats how good development will take place, have the relegation in place for the youth levels. So theres an incentive both ways. And if Usssf wants to revolutionize youth development, have scouts and coaches for a state team, best 23 players from state in each category like odp but better, have them compete against other state teams. All structured and simple.

A calendar needs to be put in place also, a 2 season setup like Spring/early summer and a fall season that are equally strong would be best. In between you could have a state cup and national cup in the summer, avoid money grab tournaments in deserts *cough cough* norco*, which doesnt help develop players..

If DA wants to not be apart of the regular youth setup then let them be, having professional backing is great but doesnt make sense to have a slammers DA with a galaxy DA, the professional youth clubs should be playing against the professional youth clubs, La vs Dal, this would be the alternate to having the state team as i mentioned, just scratch state team thing i said ahah. Professional vs professional, non professional vs non professional, however id like to see Galaxy takin part in a major tournament like state cup pitted against best teams. Just my 2 cents


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## JJP (Jul 15, 2017)

The travel is out of control and will burn kids out of soccer.  My kid doesn't want to do DA anymore because of the travel.


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## chargerfan (Jul 15, 2017)

JJP said:


> The travel is out of control and will burn kids out of soccer.  My kid doesn't want to do DA anymore because of the travel.


Kids need a life. And down time. Especially as they get older. It seems like nobody bothered to ask the players what works for them.


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## jpeter (Jul 15, 2017)

JJP said:


> The travel is out of control and will burn kids out of soccer.  My kid doesn't want to do DA anymore because of the travel.


Close to a thousand dollars for a weekend of travel to play Portland, Vancouver, Seattle.   There are at least 3-4 road trips for U15 and beyond, so while some kids love traveling like mine gets pricey quickly.  Not sure how some are going to afford that since most players have to pay their Own travel expenses.


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## Striker17 (Jul 15, 2017)

jpeter said:


> Close to a thousand dollars for a weekend of travel to play Portland, Vancouver, Seattle.   There are at least 3-4 road trips for U15 and beyond, so while some kids love traveling like mine gets pricey quickly.  Not sure how some are going to afford that since most players have to pay their Own travel expenses.


WOW! For a SOCAL region? It's not the same for girls


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## jpeter (Jul 15, 2017)

Striker17 said:


> WOW! For a SOCAL region? It's not the same for girls


Yes the socal teams are in the Southwest and they play home & away vs Northwest teams at U15, U16/17, U18/19 during regular season.  

 There is also 3 showcases or two + playoffs this year for boys and only one is going to be local at stub hub training center, so two more road trips $$, one to Indiana, other elsewhere.


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## Striker17 (Jul 15, 2017)

That is a significant amount of money. How does it work with chaperones etc? Do you go or send them?


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## Wez (Jul 16, 2017)

Reaching the Pinnacle of a sport and traveling to play other Elite teams sounds like a benefit, not a disadvantage.


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## xav10 (Jul 16, 2017)

jpeter said:


> Close to a thousand dollars for a weekend of travel to play Portland, Vancouver, Seattle.   There are at least 3-4 road trips for U15 and beyond, so while some kids love traveling like mine gets pricey quickly.  Not sure how some are going to afford that since most players have to pay their Own travel expenses.


The kid should only play for an academy team that pays those expenses, for sure.


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## younothat (Jul 16, 2017)

xav10 said:


> The kid should only play for an academy team that pays those expenses, for sure.


There won't be enough teams to play if that's is case at U15+.

USSDA has travel scholarship funds for players below certain  income thresholds but a players club only get a fraction of what the actual total costs are.  The average I heard is around 1k per player in travel fund scholarship awards.

There are very few academy teams that fully pay for players travel expenses; other than the MLS ones I can't recall which ones in Socal do that?     Fundraising and other things can help supplement.

Academy is very expensive, I've see some of the financials, not uncommon to see 3 to 4 four thousand $outlays a year on just travel per player once you reach U15.


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## xav10 (Jul 16, 2017)

younothat said:


> There won't be enough teams to play if that's is case at U15+.
> 
> USSDA has travel scholarship funds for players below certain  income thresholds but a players club only get a fraction of what the actual total costs are.  The average I heard is around 1k per player in travel fund scholarship awards.
> 
> ...


Then us soccer should fund


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## JJP (Jul 16, 2017)

Wez said:


> Reaching the Pinnacle of a sport and traveling to play other Elite teams sounds like a benefit, not a disadvantage.


But here's the issue.  There's enough talent in SoCal if you combined CSL, SCDSL and Academy you could put together a top division where there's minimal travel.

Spreading the talent out between multiple leagues, which spreads out the "elite" teams geographically, who benefits from that?  Not the kids.


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## xav10 (Jul 16, 2017)

JJP said:


> But here's the issue.  There's enough talent in SoCal if you combined CSL, SCDSL and Academy you could put together a top division where there's minimal travel.
> 
> Spreading the talent out between multiple leagues, which spreads out the "elite" teams geographically, who benefits from that?  Not the kids.


Before Academy got rolling in So Cal and before SCDSL, up until only about 8 years ago, Coast had Premier League with every weekend in San Juan Capistrano. It was sort of what you describe, i.e. the best teams, one location not too crazy and all the colleges would come there and to surf cup and to dallas cup for the west coast kids to get looks. Highly manageable. Now, not so much...the 13 and 14 year old DA kids this season will have to drive from LA to SD (and vice versa) for one 60-minute game like every other weekend this season. Totally nuts.


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## JJP (Jul 16, 2017)

xav10 said:


> Before Academy got rolling in So Cal and before SCDSL, up until only about 8 years ago, Coast had Premier League with every weekend in San Juan Capistrano. It was sort of what you describe, i.e. the best teams, one location not too crazy and all the colleges would come there and to surf cup and to dallas cup for the west coast kids to get looks. Highly manageable. Now, not so much...the 13 and 14 year old DA kids this season will have to drive from LA to SD (and vice versa) for one 60-minute game like every other weekend this season. Totally nuts.


And the LA/OC to SD drive is not an easy drive.  If the game is scheduled after 12, with traffic the drive can be up to 3 to 3.5 hrs.  So say 6 hrs. driving time, an hour early for the game, 1.5 hrs for the game, an hour for a meal.  You have literally killed the day for one game, plus requiring the next day for recovery because 6 hrs of car ride is a terrible way to recuperate.


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## xav10 (Jul 16, 2017)

JJP said:


> And the LA/OC to SD drive is not an easy drive.  If the game is scheduled after 12, with traffic the drive can be up to 3 to 3.5 hrs.  So say 6 hrs. driving time, an hour early for the game, 1.5 hrs for the game, an hour for a meal.  You have literally killed the day for one game, plus requiring the next day for recovery because 6 hrs of car ride is a terrible way to recuperate.


Really  incredible that this is what our soccer development minds have come  up with


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## full90 (Jul 16, 2017)

Seriously. Play local teams each weekend. Occasionally travel and get in two games. And with rosters of 25 freaking kids line off two fields and play two games. How is leaving 8 kids off a roster each weekend helpful for development? 

And those Galaxy players on the ground were crazy. How are 18 year olds cramping that much? We were like is it time wasting or at the end of the season are these guys really not fit?


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## Eusebio (Jul 17, 2017)

Some interesting ideas, but the problem with promotion/relegation in youth soccer is that it just brings back the winning at all costs mentality. Coaches will stack teams with man-childs and play jungle ball in order to get into and stay in the Premier flight. And the teams that get relegated will often disband. I think promotion/relegation works great at the professional level, but I don't think it's ideal at the youth level for player development without major modifications.

The DA academy I think can work, but I also think it needs some significant modifications. I've mentioned a few of these before, but here are the changes to make the DA system actually produce tangible results over time:

1). Make it mandatory for every DA player to take and pass a skills combine  assessment every year. For example, the skills assessment might include juggle 100 times on the right foot/left foot, dribble through cones within a certain time limit with left/right/both feet, pass accuracy test with both feet, and etc. This will ensure every DA player meets a minimum threshold of technical ability and it slows down coaches from recruiting man-childs that can barely control the ball. It'll also create some semblance of a national standard, so both a 13 year-old DA player in SoCal or Kentucky can juggle/dribble with their left foot.  And any player who does not pass the skills combine test will not be eligible to play for a 4 month period.

2). Instead of standings and publicizing the playoff/showcases, they should heavily promote the NIKE NATIONAL TEAM DEVELOPMENT RATING. This National Team Development rating would basically be a publicized version of the DA club ratings by US Soccer. The rating is essentially a measure of how well it develops players and the overall academy environment.  So it would rate things like: Style of Play, Percentage of Players who pass Skills Combine, Facilities, Average Playing Time of Reserves, Output of Professional Players, Output of College Players, National Team Call-ups, Average Club Costs, Average Travel Costs, Average Player Turn-over Year-over-Year, Player Satisfaction and etc. Every single one of these metrics would be publicly available for every single player and parent to see. With those type of metrics, you'll be able to tell how exactly these academies are functioning. Are they developing players or just poaching players? Do any of their DA graduates play at a professional level or is it primarily a college vehicle? Do they play/develop their Reserves or only rely on their Starters? Do the clubs attempt to make their academy teams affordable and offset costs or do they primarily function as "country-club" academies with excessive club and travel costs?

With this NIKE NATIONAL TEAM DEVELOPMENT RATING, it would be the new benchmark on what attracts players/parents to clubs, not necessarily standings. So if a local DA club has a B+ rating, they would attract better players in the area compared to a rival club who has a C- rating. This rating could be plastered all over their club promotional materials, websites, instagrams, and etc to help with overall recruiting through the club. So if the rival club wants to improve their recruiting and overall image, they would have to improve some of their core issues with their academy such as Club/Travel costs, reduce turnover, or increase professional/college player output. Player development and the academy environment would actually be tied to their bottom line. Also, it would be a mandatory requirement for all DA clubs to show their NT Dev Rating on the front page of their website similar to a Food letter rating, so no hiding from a poor development rating and would further increase the incentive to improve it.

3). Establish the REGIONAL DA OPEN CUP sponsored by Volkswagon. Every region would have a DA Open Cup that would have all the DA academies in that region plus 10-12 regular club teams. The regular club teams could come from various qualifiers such as league winners, state cup finalist, and etc.  This DA Open Cup would have roughly 24 teams and be attended heavily by NT scouts, college coaches, pro-scouts, and etc. This tournament accomplishes 3 things. a). It keeps the DA academies honest. They can stay in a closed system for 9 months, but for one month they will be tested against local competition. The DA players will also enjoy the much needed variety. b). Talented players on regular club teams have the opportunity to be seen by DA academies, NT scouts, college coaches, and etc. This significantly expands the player I.D. pool, instead of restricting everything to a closed system where 1-3 DoCs are literally the gatekeepers for large geographic areas/population centers. c). For each regional area, it offers a unifying tournament for all the dozens of leagues and organizations while still allowing for ingenuity from all corners of the map. If a local club like TFA popped up and was able to compete well against top DA teams, then US Soccer can see what TFA is doing differently than the current DA clubs and possibly recommend improvements to the academies if needed. Conversely if TFA was just winning due to man-child Jungle ball, then US Soccer can just dismiss it.

This allows US Soccer to leverage training and development ideas from the entire country and actually use a our huge geographic/population size to our advantage that's unique to America. Currently the DA system leverages or has access to only a tiny fraction of the player pool. And that tiny fraction isn't necessarily the best of the best or trained properly to reach their full potential. Having regional open tournaments with DA/Non-DA participation would provide US Soccer with a deeper root system into regular youth club soccer.

If US Soccer were to implement these 3 things, we'll win the Word Cup within 20 years, have ten or more US born players in Champions League in 15 years, and a watchable MLS league with higher TV ratings in 7 years. If anyone here knows someone at US Soccer, please forward them my post. The fate of US youth soccer depends on you.
Yours Sincerely,
Eusebio


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## younothat (Jul 18, 2017)

Nicely Done *Eusebio *all those are worth consideration.    

For #1 yeah would have to give clubs a year notice or something like that since some existing players won't meet those requirements currently.   Would have be part of yearly registration process but like the others things players have to meet to get registered. 

#2)  With all the DA scouts that could be manged but we would have to change some of them out and get some newer more blood in, sort of like what the academy awards are attempting to do with diversity 

#3)  Like this one.   Instead of the closed showcases 3 times a year,   (2) Open cups and (1) DA closed one should works 

I would add take some of the ECNL rules and replace or modify the DA ones to make them more reasonable 
http://playthewhistle.com/game-day/ecnl-competition-rules-2016.pdf

4) Allow for High School play and a dark period which is there anyway between Dec-Feb

5) Revamp & expand the “training centers" and who gets invited to those.  Instead of the all the Politics involved make sure all or more  players get invited and can participate at some point not just the few per team that gets sent repeatably and all the other are left out.   We can't raise the game by just concentrating on only 1-5% of players.

6) Modify some of the FIFA "Adult" rules such as:
a) Change the current restrictive sub rules until U18 or something like that and replace those with the NCCA sub rules or what ECNL does where you have (7) subs in a half, can't renter in the same half but at least you can in a different half unlike DA where there is no re-entry what so ever.   Too many players in DA ride the pine due to the (3) movement sub rules  or worn out or injured players can be left on the field due to all the sub movements or subs already being used later in the game.   
b) Change the DA Five Yellow Card Accumulations rule to miss a game deal.  There is no  yellow card accumulation policy for ECNL Competitions.  In DA make that 10 Yellows or none at all. 

7) Change the Recruiting; Try-Outs; process to be more like ECNL where you can recruit players anytime but clubs can't train, invite a player to train, invite a player to tryout or try out a player from another DA teams prior to a set date like May 1st and have some "open" months like April and June where players can train and tryout with a variety of member clubs if the want to. 

Ok some of these may not be popular and I'm not a socialist liberal or anything like that.   But we must open up the youth soccer world to more players and allow for broader demographics to participate?  How?

8) Invest the 100 million dollar+ US soccer war chest  in something more meaningful than Wall Street.
a) Investing in more Soccer Infrastructure? more fields to play on , training facilitates, coaching educational programs, etc.
b) what about Partnering with middle or high school programs and offering coaching education so kids have actual soccer trained coaches rather than the history or gym rat teacher who just happens to be a part time soccer buff.
c) Perhaps futsal programs at elementary school where most have black tops anyway, offer some alternatives to the basketball on courts or something alone those lines. Seems like US soccer could do much more with the kind of $ they are generating & basically sitting on.

9)  Create regional all star teams  not just the YNT a highly charged political system for the 1%.  Almost every body I talk to says we have the players but so many of them are overlooked for what reasons.   LET the PLAYERS have a voice in who they think should be "all stars", give them 50% weight, 25% for the coaches and 25% for the scouts our something along those lines.    My Little League did this and everybody was happier and we went father than many of the bigger more affluent communities that used the old coaches or scout systems.

10) Do something about the competitive imbalance.

Level the playing field; MLS teams have a big advantage in recruiting so come up with a way to reward homegrown players development rather than poaching from other clubs.
Require the MLS clubs, US soccer, or those well to do clubs to contribute to funding local youth teams and/or a real development Super "D" league where players could be promoted.   Each team would be required to have X% of "home grown" players not just a collection of players from other clubs who get nothing in return currently.

Is DA working?  Yes and No

The level of play, skill level and talent has increased ever year no doubt  but we have a long way to GO IMO.


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## ray8 (Jul 19, 2017)

Wez said:


> I get your point, but playing in the MIC tournament last April, it was clear that organizations like Barcelona and Real Madrid were producing teams that were there to win and it wasn't teams of giants.  Isn't the ultimate measure of development, wins?
> 
> Soccer in the US plays with all the athletes who chose not to play Football / Baseball / Basketball.  If soccer can figure out a way to attract our best athletes, we will start to win intl. competitions.  It feels to me like we're slowly moving in that direction.


If you want your son to become a soccer player stay the hell away from anyone who tells you winning is a measure of development.
Has anyone ever explained to you guys why there are no tables for the younger academy levels? Bitter truth is the academies don't know why.
And Real Madrid and Barcelona aren't at MIC Cup to win. They almost always win because they're so damn good. But they're in business to protect and nourish talented boys, not win games.


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## Wez (Jul 19, 2017)

ray8 said:


> If you want your son to become a soccer player stay the hell away from anyone who tells you winning is a measure of development.
> Has anyone ever explained to you guys why there are no tables for the younger academy levels? Bitter truth is the academies don't know why.
> And Real Madrid and Barcelona aren't at MIC Cup to win. They almost always win because they're so damn good. But they're in business to protect and nourish talented boys, not win games.


Jeez, angry much?


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## ray8 (Jul 21, 2017)

full90 said:


> And those Galaxy players on the ground were crazy. How are 18 year olds cramping that much? We were like is it time wasting or at the end of the season are these guys really not fit?


The tournament is played after a long season of boot and run games, often played while ignoring overuse injuries. Academy soccer games after U15 are endurance events.


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## JJP (Jul 21, 2017)

It's easy to pile on the academy system, but IMO academy was still better than the other options out there in the US.  If we're going to compare USSDA to top European academies, then sure USSDA falls short, but I do think USSDA is taking steps in the right direction and hopefully can improve with some of the ideas and suggestions from this website.

Unfortunately the US is not like Germany, and we can't pivot on a dime and build out 155 "Centers of Excellence" which is what the Germans did after they crashed and burned in 2004, where they trained up coaches to the highest standards, built out top of the line facilities and equipment, and had their federation work with all the clubs to improve their training in accordance with their improved best practices.

That's what it will take to compete with the Europeans.


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## thedudeabides (Aug 9, 2017)

younothat said:


> After 10 years, is U.S. Soccer’s Development Academy working?
> 
> Experts are split on whether the DA is truly changing the youth soccer landscape.
> Read more at https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/after-10-years-us-soccers-development-academy-working#ptEi4UGy1BK9vKry.99
> ...



I really don't think so and here are my observations that I am sure all the DA lemmings will jump all over. First of all, I'm not saying DA is necessarily a bad thing, I'm just saying it can't prove it is better. Secondly, there is a huge disparity between the top DA's and the bottom ones, period. So trying to say you have this standardized system that attracts the best players is simply not true and the more DA's that get formed, the more there will be separation between the top and bottom. So much so, that strong non-DA club players will continue to turn down weak DA offers.

DA is just a meaningless label like anything else that lacks empirical data proving why their system of development is better. Our club is not DA and as teams age out of DA age groups our teams beat those teams more times than not. For one thing, the DA kids tend to play a little soft and appear to be mentally weaker. Yes, this is a gross generalization but they are told for years how great they are when they weren't all that. Maybe mommy/daddy has a big check book or knows someone, but these kids actually think they are better than all non-DA players and that is far from reality. I have talked to numerous coaches that have had their top kids approached by DA and have turned it down. Two of our dads that went down to DA tryouts came back and literally said our team could easily beat them. One dad genuinely wanted to know why they should spend that kind of time and money when their kid was already on a great team, was happy and was being properly developed. The other dad that also recognized this was still unsure because he was told "DA is just a higher level". Once again, simply a perception built on nothing.

Yes, I know it's all about the development. That's what losing coaches always say. Development and winning aren't mutually exclusive. When you properly develop a kid/team, this will naturally yield more wins and learning to win is an extremely important part of development. Winning starts with taking a team and developing a system based on the strengths and weaknesses of the players; not conforming to one system of play that hasn't even been demonstrated to be very successful. Secondly, and more importantly, keeping those kids together for many years has a huge impact on the overall chemistry and success of a team.

The team I am associated with lost two of our bottom starters to DA and they were unsuccessful at getting anyone in our top 4 (yes, they recruited 6 players total from our team). Ironically, one of the kids they cut, we picked up and he is significantly better than the two we lost. Yes, these are all anecdotes but our ranking was already very high and actually improved more since losing two to DA, so I do have empirical proof that we are better off now. I'll take the numerous years of experience, coaching and playing, that our three coaches bring compared to a sea of coaches that simply rotate around like an assembly line proudly displaying their A and B licenses. In the end, these coaches will never be able to form the personal relationships and bonds with their players like ours can because they have been relegated to a player mill.

Like anything that involves monetary transactions and people that are used to engineering every aspect of their children's lives, politics will get involved. There are now something like 30 DA's in SoCal....really, you think that is an exclusive club? Do you think it is possible that there is serious talent dilution when you have that many DA's? Do you honestly think that there aren't a significant number of kids/parents that have shunned DA because of the numerous barriers to entry? It will get to the point where the DA label won't mean that much anymore. It is already heading that way and people will try to create something even higher. We have already seen that with the numerous acronyms of leagues/levels that I can't even keep up with any more.

Don't get me wrong, if there was really a system where the best kids could congregate without politics and money involved; like they have with the professional academies in Europe, then DA could work. Until then, find a club with good players, coaches and parents where your kid is comfortable and happy and watch his/her game thrive. If it doesn't work out or the team ends up mediocre, you still get to walk away with a happy kid with a little bit more money in your pocket. All this jumping around chasing the perceived best opportunity for your kid is ruining soccer. We'll see some of these DA's one day on the pitch. You can't hide in your exclusive club forever. When the final whistle blows, you will likely be scratching your head wondering why you spent so much time and money chasing unicorns.


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## Wez (Aug 9, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> I really don't think so and here are my observations that I am sure all the DA lemmings will jump all over. First of all, I'm not saying DA is necessarily a bad thing, I'm just saying it can't prove it is better. Secondly, there is a huge disparity between the top DA's and the bottom ones, period. So trying to say you have this standardized system that attracts the best players is simply not true and the more DA's that get formed, the more there will be separation between the top and bottom. So much so, that strong non-DA club players will continue to turn down weak DA offers.
> 
> DA is just a meaningless label like anything else that lacks empirical data proving why their system of development is better. Our club is not DA and as teams age out of DA age groups our teams beat those teams more times than not. For one thing, the DA kids tend to play a little soft and appear to be mentally weaker. Yes, this is a gross generalization but they are told for years how great they are when they weren't all that. Maybe mommy/daddy has a big check book or knows someone, but these kids actually think they are better than all non-DA players and that is far from reality. I have talked to numerous coaches that have had their top kids approached by DA and have turned it down. Two of our dads that went down to DA tryouts came back and literally said our team could easily beat them. One dad genuinely wanted to know why they should spend that kind of time and money when their kid was already on a great team, was happy and was being properly developed. The other dad that also recognized this was still unsure because he was told "DA is just a higher level". Once again, simply a perception built on nothing.
> 
> ...


Do you mind me asking what team you are with?


----------



## Zvezdas (Aug 9, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> I really don't think so and here are my observations that I am sure all the DA lemmings will jump all over. First of all, I'm not saying DA is necessarily a bad thing, I'm just saying it can't prove it is better. Secondly, there is a huge disparity between the top DA's and the bottom ones, period. So trying to say you have this standardized system that attracts the best players is simply not true and the more DA's that get formed, the more there will be separation between the top and bottom. So much so, that strong non-DA club players will continue to turn down weak DA offers.
> 
> DA is just a meaningless label like anything else that lacks empirical data proving why their system of development is better. Our club is not DA and as teams age out of DA age groups our teams beat those teams more times than not. For one thing, the DA kids tend to play a little soft and appear to be mentally weaker. Yes, this is a gross generalization but they are told for years how great they are when they weren't all that. Maybe mommy/daddy has a big check book or knows someone, but these kids actually think they are better than all non-DA players and that is far from reality. I have talked to numerous coaches that have had their top kids approached by DA and have turned it down. Two of our dads that went down to DA tryouts came back and literally said our team could easily beat them. One dad genuinely wanted to know why they should spend that kind of time and money when their kid was already on a great team, was happy and was being properly developed. The other dad that also recognized this was still unsure because he was told "DA is just a higher level". Once again, simply a perception built on nothing.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of your argument, however even the best Euro academies are not free of politics! An idea that European top academies gather only the best kids and are politics free is just another blatant lie some here on the board like to propagate.


----------



## Wez (Aug 9, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> There are now something like 30 DA's in SoCal....really, you think that is an exclusive club?


Population of 24million, more than half the population of the entire Country of Spain.  59 teams have competed in La Liga, so 30 feels about right, but you make a lot of great points.  I think the DA program is a work in progress and is improving.  How else do you separate talent so you can be reasonably assured you will have a challenging match at each age group.  You're never quite sure what you're going to get when you play SCDSL flt 1.


----------



## thedudeabides (Aug 9, 2017)

Art said:


> To be honest, USSF is looking for an identity in how to develop players and in all fairness we havent found that identity yet..getting closer but not there yet.
> 
> We have too many options, we have a clutter of playing options and were not getting the right mindset when developing players.
> 
> ...





Wez said:


> Do you mind me asking what team you are with?



I would be happy to have a private conversation with you about it. Given I mentioned experiences with anonymous players, I would rather not tell you the club, as it would immediately identify these players. Thanks


----------



## thedudeabides (Aug 9, 2017)

Zvezdas said:


> I agree with most of your argument, however even the best Euro academies are not free of politics! An idea that European top academies gather only the best kids and are politics free is just another blatant lie some here on the board like to propagate.


True, but having my son train in Europe a few times and seeing those systems up close, it is night and day compared to here. they are training kids to be professional. We are training kids for college. Not saying one is better than the other, just a simple observation. They admitted that we were closing the gap tremendously as far as the talent we produced in the states but said the politics of our club system was hindering us. That and many of the best U.S athletes are not choosing soccer are the biggest issues in U.S. soccer in my opinion.


----------



## thedudeabides (Aug 9, 2017)

JJP said:


> But here's the issue.  There's enough talent in SoCal if you combined CSL, SCDSL and Academy you could put together a top division where there's minimal travel.
> 
> Spreading the talent out between multiple leagues, which spreads out the "elite" teams geographically, who benefits from that?  Not the kids.


100% agree. That is the crux of the problem.


----------



## BJ18 (Aug 9, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> I would be happy to have a private conversation with you about it. Given I mentioned experiences with anonymous players, I would rather not tell you the club, as it would immediately identify these players. Thanks


I count 21 DA teams in Socal at the entry U12 level.  And the following year, U13,  the DA teams shrink to fewer than that (13 teams).  See below:

*SOUTHWEST*

Albion SC
Arsenal FC
FC Golden State
LA Galaxy
LA Galaxy San Diego
Los Angeles Football Club
Los Angeles United Futbol Academy
Nomads SC
Pateadores
Real So Cal
San Diego Surf
Santa Barbara Soccer Club
Strikers FC
And then, one less team at the next age group of U15 and older (12 teams).   So, I am not sure where you get 30 teams.   
However, I do believe NOT all the best players opt to play in a DA system for a number of reasons.  With that being said, the consistency of good competition on a week to week basis has its' benefits.    Don't you think?


----------



## espola (Aug 9, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> True, but having my son train in Europe a few times and seeing those systems up close, it is night and day compared to here. they are training kids to be professional. We are training kids for college. Not saying one is better than the other, just a simple observation. They admitted that we were closing the gap tremendously as far as the talent we produced in the states but said the politics of our club system was hindering us. That and many of the best U.S athletes are not choosing soccer are the biggest issues in U.S. soccer in my opinion.


What particular techniques distinguish training to be professional from training for college?


----------



## Wez (Aug 9, 2017)

JJP said:


> But here's the issue.  There's enough talent in SoCal if you combined CSL, SCDSL and Academy you could put together a top division where there's minimal travel.
> 
> Spreading the talent out between multiple leagues, which spreads out the "elite" teams geographically, who benefits from that?  Not the kids.


Isn't the DA system an attempt to consolidate talent?


----------



## thedudeabides (Aug 9, 2017)

Wez said:


> Population of 24million, more than half the population of the entire Country of Spain.  59 teams have competed in La Liga, so 30 feels about right, but you make a lot of great points.  I think the DA program is a work in progress and is improving.  How else do you separate talent so you can be reasonably assured you will have a challenging match at each age group.  You're never quite sure what you're going to get when you play SCDSL flt 1.


No doubt, SoCal is the epicenter of U.S. soccer. This furthers my point that the DA's are failing to produce great players. What are the objective measures that really say the DA system is improving?  It is a vessel that will always fill. If you had 60 DA's in SoCal tomorrow you would fill them up instantly because there are enough parents willing to shell out the time and bucks but that doesn't mean there were twice as many DA quality players that magically appeared.  

SoCal and the U.S for that matter, only produce a small fraction of the talent Spain puts out because their best athletes choose soccer first over other sports. Combined with the fact that almost all the top players in the world almost always end up in Europe it is interesting how few SoCal products have played for a first division European team. Will the number go up with all of these DA's, maybe a little but nothing significant. It won't happen until our best athletes look at soccer as a viable choice before football, baseball and basketball. Maybe the sheer number of DA's will garner exposure and start attracting more talent.

If you want your kid to develop and get some college looks, sure go DA but producing world class players is not happening because it starts with selection and I truly feel the best kids aren't being selected or they simply choose one of many other less expensive or time consuming routes. Many parents have figured out the financial and happiness ROI isn't there. If their kid wanted to follow their dream of becoming a pro and they were really good, it makes more sense to go with a professional academy or European academy and not just another club that put in DA paperwork.

And yes, some of the same false pride about SCDSL Flight 1 is out there. At least you have to earn your level in Coast. All this rhetoric about who is really better can simply be solved on the pitch.


----------



## xav10 (Aug 9, 2017)

espola said:


> What particular techniques distinguish training to be professional from training for college?


I believe there is a big difference. The "training" involves the type of physical specimen being sought for the college game, which typically means giant backs, very fast forwards without regard to touch, and a physically strong player who prefers to bang as much as anything else. They don't worry about building from the back and they play long to speedy forwards. Whereas the professional training (which fewer than half of the so cal DA clubs i've seen practice) involves timing, ball movement, building from the back and passing in tight spaces up top. The emphasis is on agility and first touch and vision.


----------



## espola (Aug 9, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> No doubt, SoCal is the epicenter of U.S. soccer. This furthers my point that the DA's are failing to produce great players. What are the objective measures that really say the DA system is improving?  It is a vessel that will always fill. If you had 60 DA's in SoCal tomorrow you would fill them up instantly because there are enough parents willing to shell out the time and bucks but that doesn't mean there were twice as many DA quality players that magically appeared.
> 
> SoCal and the U.S for that matter, only produce a small fraction of the talent Spain puts out because their best athletes choose soccer first over other sports. Combined with the fact that almost all the top players in the world almost always end up in Europe it is interesting how few SoCal products have played for a first division European team. Will the number go up with all of these DA's, maybe a little but nothing significant. It won't happen until our best athletes look at soccer as a viable choice before football, baseball and basketball. Maybe the sheer number of DA's will garner exposure and start attracting more talent.
> 
> ...


A team earns its level in CSL by winning games.  There is no requirement to demonstrate any particular style of play, or to show a record of player development.  

I'm not saying that DA does those things, but it's what they claim


----------



## xav10 (Aug 9, 2017)

espola said:


> A team earns its level in CSL by winning games.  There is no requirement to demonstrate any particular style of play, or to show a record of player development.
> 
> I'm not saying that DA does those things, but it's what they claim


It seems clear that the DA gets the best players, but the "training" being taught is, mostly, not the training and development described in the DA literature. So the kids end up not learning to play to international standards...


----------



## mahrez (Aug 9, 2017)

DA is setup to id potential players for YNT and MLS but hot prospects don't generally stick around.   Pro/semi or foreign leagues for better competition around 16 nowadays.  

One of best at 15 went pro but plays for MX youth:
www.lagalaxy.com/post/2017/08/02/la-galaxy-ii-sign-la-galaxy-academy-midfielder-efrain-alvarez

Closed circuit without promo/regulation is the same problem MLS has.


----------



## thedudeabides (Aug 9, 2017)

espola said:


> What particular techniques distinguish training to be professional from training for college?


It mostly goes back to selection and mentality. Parents that are likely affluent and went to college themselves know the system. They know how to get looks from college scouts, grade requirements and registering for hudl etc. they believe and sometimes they are correct that that the DA teams will get more college looks than non DA teams. these parents aren't thinking that much about professional academies in Europe. When you go watch the top clubs/teams/players in SoCal there are a lot of very talented Latino players on the boys side. However, our national team doesn't reflect that. The affluent white kids are getting more academy opportunities. I know they have tried to change this in recent years but all the travel and time away from home for two earner households is very tough on families. In Europe there are few barriers to entry if you are good enough. However, the rules have changed a lot because now they can't bring you over as easily if you are from a non EU nation. The director said they have actually used this to their advantage because the boys that typically come over from the states are not as ready to make this transition as those they get from other countries. He thought it was because the American kids lacked independence because of the way their parents hovered over them. He's probably right. 

So to your question, does the Professional European training look that much different from what we do at a lowly non-DA club.....not really but as I said earlier, I would put our coaches up against any A licensed coach with an English accent any day.


----------



## espola (Aug 9, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> It mostly goes back to selection and mentality. Parents that are likely affluent and went to college themselves know the system. They know how to get looks from college scouts, grade requirements and registering for hudl etc. they believe and sometimes they are correct that that the DA teams will get more college looks than non DA teams. these parents aren't thinking that much about professional academies in Europe. When you go watch the top clubs/teams/players in SoCal there are a lot of very talented Latino players on the boys side. However, our national team doesn't reflect that. The affluent white kids are getting more academy opportunities. I know they have tried to change this in recent years but all the travel and time away from home for two earner households is very tough on families. In Europe there are few barriers to entry if you are good enough. However, the rules have changed a lot because now they can't bring you over as easily if you are from a non EU nation. The director said they have actually used this to their advantage because the boys that typically come over from the states are not as ready to make this transition as those they get from other countries. He thought it was because the American kids lacked independence because of the way their parents hovered over them. He's probably right.
> 
> So to your question, does the Professional European training look that much different from what we do at a lowly non-DA club.....not really but as I said earlier, I would put our coaches up against any A licensed coach with an English accent any day.


You didn't really answer the question.


----------



## mahrez (Aug 9, 2017)

espola said:


> A team earns its level in CSL by winning games.  There is no requirement to demonstrate any particular style of play, or to show a record of player development.
> 
> I'm not saying that DA does those things, but it's what they claim


Several new clubs jumped there teams straight to CSL premier from other leagues even if they where near bottom of table in those leagues this & other years. After that yes they need to earn placement for the following years sometimes depending on demand and whatnot.


----------



## espola (Aug 9, 2017)

mahrez said:


> Several new clubs jumped there teams straight to CSL premier from other leagues even if they where near bottom of table in those leagues this & other years. After that yes they need to earn placement for the following years sometimes depending on demand and whatnot.


Which clubs?  We tried that several years ago with a team of high-school-age boys that went undefeated in Presidio Premier and then made it to semifinals of National Cup.  We were told we would have to start in Gold, with no home games, which meant traveling all over Southern California.  The reason given was that any team we bumped from CSL Premier came from a club that already had many other teams playing in CSL, and we were only bringing in one.


----------



## mahrez (Aug 9, 2017)

espola said:


> Which clubs?  We tried that several years ago with a team of high-school-age boys that went undefeated in Presidio Premier and then made it to semifinals of National Cup.  We were told we would have to start in Gold, with no home games, which meant traveling all over Southern California.  The reason given was that any team we bumped from CSL Premier came from a club that already had many other teams playing in CSL, and we were only bringing in one.


Yeah times have changed, 4 in just this thread, 2002 DA Academies - Where are they now? http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/2002-da-academies-where-are-they-now.3918/

Premier is big $$$ league fee so not for everyone and politics does take a part  like all the others....


----------



## thedudeabides (Aug 9, 2017)

espola said:


> A team earns its level in CSL by winning games.  There is no requirement to demonstrate any particular style of play, or to show a record of player development.
> 
> I'm not saying that DA does those things, but it's what they claim


Agreed but I go back to the idea that development and winning aren't mutually exclusive. If you develop kids properly they will win more than they lose and you don't have to wait until U16, as some coaches claim, to start winning. I actually think it is an insult to coaches to assume that if they are winning too much they are sacrificing development. What a load of crap. At the end of the day, soccer is a team sport that awards wins, losses, and draws based purely on how many balls go in the net. The final objective is winning, plain and simple. Sure we can say it is a secondary objective in the early years but development is for players to get better so they can eventually help their team.....everyone say it with me......WIN


----------



## espola (Aug 9, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> Agreed but I go back to the idea that development and winning aren't mutually exclusive. If you develop kids properly they will win more than they lose and you don't have to wait until U16, as some coaches claim, to start winning. I actually think it is an insult to coaches to assume that if they are winning too much they are sacrificing development. What a load of crap. At the end of the day, soccer is a team sport that awards wins, losses, and draws based purely on how many balls go in the net. The final objective is winning, plain and simple. Sure we can say it is a secondary objective in the early years but development is for players to get better so they can eventually help their team.....everyone say it with me......WIN


The underlying reason for training with a "development" focus is so that the properly-developed players look more attractive to some other coach, at a higher level (such as national team, college, pro).  Or so I have been told by coaches when they were in recruiting mode, but not so much in training.


----------



## Zvezdas (Aug 9, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> It mostly goes back to selection and mentality. Parents that are likely affluent and went to college themselves know the system. They know how to get looks from college scouts, grade requirements and registering for hudl etc. they believe and sometimes they are correct that that the DA teams will get more college looks than non DA teams. these parents aren't thinking that much about professional academies in Europe. When you go watch the top clubs/teams/players in SoCal there are a lot of very talented Latino players on the boys side. However, our national team doesn't reflect that. The affluent white kids are getting more academy opportunities. I know they have tried to change this in recent years but all the travel and time away from home for two earner households is very tough on families. In Europe there are few barriers to entry if you are good enough. However, the rules have changed a lot because now they can't bring you over as easily if you are from a non EU nation. The director said they have actually used this to their advantage because the boys that typically come over from the states are not as ready to make this transition as those they get from other countries. He thought it was because the American kids lacked independence because of the way their parents hovered over them. He's probably right.
> 
> So to your question, does the Professional European training look that much different from what we do at a lowly non-DA club.....not really but as I said earlier, I would put our coaches up against any A licensed coach with an English accent any day.


I have to disagree with your last paragraph, my son played for a non-da team and now plays for a DA side, and both are not even close to a standard euro training/practice session. Heck, even training at my low level neigborhood club back home had better drills and better coaches for sure. The gap is visible, every year when i take kids back home we can notice difference in quality, and unfortunately both da and non-da clubs are far behind even low level euro clubs...


----------



## JJP (Aug 9, 2017)

Wez said:


> Isn't the DA system an attempt to consolidate talent?


How can there be consolidation with 3 leagues not playing each other?


----------



## Wez (Aug 10, 2017)

JJP said:


> How can there be consolidation with 3 leagues not playing each other?


"In theory", leagues like CSL & SCDSL are feeding top talent into the DA system, as top players seek the next level up on the skill ladder.  Obviously there are still fantastic non-DA teams.


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## Sheriff Joe (Aug 10, 2017)

Wez said:


> "In theory", leagues like CSL & SCDSL are feeding top talent into the DA system, as top players seek the next level up on the skill ladder.  Obviously there are still fantastic non-DA teams.


Brilliant. You sound very smart when you state the obvious.


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## Wez (Aug 10, 2017)

Sheriff Joe said:


> Brilliant. You sound very smart when you state the obvious.


Stick to the off topic forum you creepy stalker, adults are talking.


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## thedudeabides (Aug 10, 2017)

Zvezdas said:


> I have to disagree with your last paragraph, my son played for a non-da team and now plays for a DA side, and both are not even close to a standard euro training/practice session. Heck, even training at my low level neigborhood club back home had better drills and better coaches for sure. The gap is visible, every year when i take kids back home we can notice difference in quality, and unfortunately both da and non-da clubs are far behind even low level euro clubs...


Actually, I think the nuance of my sentiment got lost in several responses. I was actually agreeing with you. I had said European professional standards from my limited exposure seemed much higher in general than US clubs, DA and non-DA. I don't know if I can sum it up in a neat sentence like someone had asked me to do but when I see DA teams picking up kids that would have a hard time starting for us, I know the politics is a big difference. European professional academies are training kids to one day possibly play for their professional team. The amount of investment dollars at stake is insane. Yes, there are politics everywhere, but from what I hear Mexico and the U.S. are the worst and look at the professional teams from those two countries. I think there are almost 70 European clubs rated ahead of the top Mexican team.  

I was simply making the point that in our overly fragmented U.S. system, labels begin to mean nothing. Yes, Europe seems to have a good formula but I have also seen DA and non DA clubs try to mimic that model and fail because they were unable to shun politics to truly get the best players. What DA has done has tried to say hey, we're DA so if you are a great player, your only option is us. however, they make this claim with no objective standard to say why that is true. Europe has a proven track record of success. At the end of the day the overall success of a club will be determined on the quality of the players it recruits. I just think the DA system has put the cart before the horse.

In my final paragraph I was just pointing out that although the US system is inferior to Europe's, I believe our individual team has produced something that more closely resembles that of Europe's because we are able to get the top kids to turn down DA and choose our system based on real results, abandoning politics, focusing on development and ultimately winning.


----------



## thedudeabides (Aug 10, 2017)

espola said:


> What particular techniques distinguish training to be professional from training for college?


Have you watched both college and European soccer live? An 18 year old Messi playing in SoCal would have a hard time getting a scholarship to UCLA. OK, maybe that is exaggeration bu


Zvezdas said:


> I agree with most of your argument, however even the best Euro academies are not free of politics! An idea that European top academies gather only the best kids and are politics free is just another blatant lie some here on the board like to propagate.


Absolutely true because by the new rules they can't just bring them over for extended periods of time. The director at the European academy we were associated with said that if a kid looked good enough for their standards they were happy to leave them in that US Club environment. They would stay in communication with the coach and direct as needed. More like our ODP system than our DA system. He went on to say that the US club system had improved dramatically in the past 10 years as far as volume of quality players but stated that the pay for play system was our biggest problem that was holding us back.


----------



## thedudeabides (Aug 10, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> Actually, I think the nuance of my sentiment got lost in several responses. I was actually agreeing with you. I had said European professional standards from my limited exposure seemed much higher in general than US clubs, DA and non-DA. I don't know if I can sum it up in a neat sentence like someone had asked me to do but when I see DA teams picking up kids that would have a hard time starting for us, I know the politics is a big difference. European professional academies are training kids to one day possibly play for their professional team. The amount of investment dollars at stake is insane. Yes, there are politics everywhere, but from what I hear Mexico and the U.S. are the worst and look at the professional teams from those two countries. I think there are almost 70 European clubs rated ahead of the top Mexican team.
> 
> I was simply making the point that in our overly fragmented U.S. system, labels begin to mean nothing. Yes, Europe seems to have a good formula but I have also seen DA and non DA clubs try to mimic that model and fail because they were unable to shun politics to truly get the best players. What DA has done has tried to say hey, we're DA so if you are a great player, your only option is us. however, they make this claim with no objective standard to say why that is true. Europe has a proven track record of success. At the end of the day the overall success of a club will be determined on the quality of the players it recruits. I just think the DA system has put the cart before the horse.
> 
> In my final paragraph I was just pointing out that although the US system is inferior to Europe's, I believe our individual team has produced something that more closely resembles that of Europe's because we are able to get the top kids to turn down DA and choose our system based on real results, abandoning politics, focusing on development and ultimately winning. I was also not referring to a European academy in that final sentence but stating that DA's seem to think employing a DOC with an accent makes them legit.


----------



## espola (Aug 10, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> Have you watched both college and European soccer live? An 18 year old Messi playing in SoCal would have a hard time getting a scholarship to UCLA. OK, maybe that is exaggeration bu
> 
> 
> Absolutely true because by the new rules they can't just bring them over for extended periods of time. The director at the European academy we were associated with said that if a kid looked good enough for their standards they were happy to leave them in that US Club environment. They would stay in communication with the coach and direct as needed. More like our ODP system than our DA system. He went on to say that the US club system had improved dramatically in the past 10 years as far as volume of quality players but stated that the pay for play system was our biggest problem that was holding us back.


What I asked about was the difference in training techniques between European and American youth academies.  It's an objective question, not theoretical.


----------



## thedudeabides (Aug 10, 2017)

espola said:


> You didn't really answer the question.


Actually, you didn't answer my question. I answered you how it was different and I also said the training techniques weren't much different from what I was seeing from solid US clubs or teams that were decentralized. I also provided an example where the European club academy director agreed with that generalization.


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## espola (Aug 10, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> Actually, you didn't answer my question. I answered you how it was different and I also said the training techniques weren't much different from what I was seeing from solid US clubs or teams that were decentralized. I also provided an example where the European club academy director agreed with that generalization.


"having my son train in Europe a few times and seeing those systems up close, it is night and day compared to here. they are training kids to be professional. We are training kids for college."

What is different?


----------



## thedudeabides (Aug 10, 2017)

espola said:


> "having my son train in Europe a few times and seeing those systems up close, it is night and day compared to here. they are training kids to be professional. We are training kids for college."
> 
> What is different?[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


----------



## Myleftfoot (Aug 10, 2017)

mahrez said:


> Yeah times have changed, 4 in just this thread, 2002 DA Academies - Where are they now? http://www.socalsoccer.com/threads/2002-da-academies-where-are-they-now.3918/
> 
> Premier is big $$$ league fee so not for everyone and politics does take a part  like all the others....


is LAFC thinking on having 2003,2002,2001 academies next year?


----------



## mahrez (Aug 10, 2017)

Myleftfoot said:


> is LAFC thinking on having 2003,2002,2001 academies next year?


LAFC wants to have a full academy worth of teams for the next season 18-19. However, we prefer single age calendar year groups.

Ussda had initially indicated that only one combined age would remain for 18-19' either U18/U19 like it is for 17-18 or U17/18 from 16-17'.

Since then ussda has backed off somewhat and stated that the oldest single calendar year U15 age group is experimental and a decision would be made around nov on what age groups would play in 18-19.   Depending on that outcome  we will reevaluate and sumbit app for the age groups that make sense for our program.


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## El Clasico (Aug 10, 2017)

Dude Abides, not sure if you are a parent or a coach in your club (if you previously stated, I missed it) but I think that you are missing a very important piece of the puzzle.  The USSF has done a great job of marketing itself to further its intentions and needs.  Without the DA, the growth in the pay to play system effectively collapses.  Not the system itself.  As mentioned by many on this and other boards, there is no shortage of parents in this country willing to shell out 50k per child for little or no FINANCIAL return in the form of any type of scholarship.  In fact, when loss of academic scholarships due to lower GPAs because of the heavy practice schedule, other than the dot com collapse, not sure that I have seen a worse investment.  Having said that, the system works.  The overwhelming majority of kids pay to play, which in turn provides a circuit for the deserving kids to play and earn their scholarships. Everybody wins.  The kids that should get scholarships, get them, the parents who live out their fantasies through their kids, funds the program and allows youth soccer to continue to grow until it becomes self sustaining in about 40-50 years.  We need a couple of generations to grow up playing and in turn, start coaching and teaching the community kids (similar to what you see in our own Mexican leagues) which, along with the growth from top down, will push out the middle men hustlers who make their living screaming at our children to kick the ball up the field.  The good coaches will get absorbed into the system and the hustlers go back to flipping burgers.

To circle back around to your point, the differences between the two academies is quite irrelevant since they both serve completely different purposes.  European Academies look to develop talent to play professionally while the American DA looks to prepare kids for college and turn a tidy profit.  I understand that their "Stated" objective is otherwise but you already know different.  In other words, selling the sizzle and not the steak.

Again, the reason you see more and more agencies and scouts popping up around the country facilitating the transfer of our prospects to academies outside of the US is simply because the demand is there.  Frankly speaking, the parent assessment part is simple.  If your kid is 14 years old or above and you have not been approached by a foreign scout, your prospects are limited.  Not because kids won't further develop but because academies prefer to get them young enough to develop them within their own system of play.  Those who can not or will not make the move look for clubs/teams where they will continue to develop to the liking of international clubs.  Possibly teams such as yours but tough to say as I don't know which club/team you are with.

There use to be a coach down south (Fullerton) that created something similar to what you describe.  His teams played a beautiful style of play, they were ranked #1 in the US for years and could beat any academy team. Heard his ego got so big that he self-destructed but your point remains.  There are places where players go to develop rather than DA.

In closing, the fact that you have so many people that buy into what the DA is selling them (looks to be even worse on the girls side) is actually a good thing for US soccer.  Those parents are doing their part to help invest in the infrastructure needed for the sport of soccer.


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## thedudeabides (Aug 10, 2017)

El Clasico said:


> Dude Abides, not sure if you are a parent or a coach in your club (if you previously stated, I missed it) but I think that you are missing a very important piece of the puzzle.  The USSF has done a great job of marketing itself to further its intentions and needs.  Without the DA, the growth in the pay to play system effectively collapses.  Not the system itself.  As mentioned by many on this and other boards, there is no shortage of parents in this country willing to shell out 50k per child for little or no FINANCIAL return in the form of any type of scholarship.  In fact, when loss of academic scholarships due to lower GPAs because of the heavy practice schedule, other than the dot com collapse, not sure that I have seen a worse investment.  Having said that, the system works.  The overwhelming majority of kids pay to play, which in turn provides a circuit for the deserving kids to play and earn their scholarships. Everybody wins.  The kids that should get scholarships, get them, the parents who live out their fantasies through their kids, funds the program and allows youth soccer to continue to grow until it becomes self sustaining in about 40-50 years.  We need a couple of generations to grow up playing and in turn, start coaching and teaching the community kids (similar to what you see in our own Mexican leagues) which, along with the growth from top down, will push out the middle men hustlers who make their living screaming at our children to kick the ball up the field.  The good coaches will get absorbed into the system and the hustlers go back to flipping burgers.
> 
> To circle back around to your point, the differences between the two academies is quite irrelevant since they both serve completely different purposes.  European Academies look to develop talent to play professionally while the American DA looks to prepare kids for college and turn a tidy profit.  I understand that their "Stated" objective is otherwise but you already know different.  In other words, selling the sizzle and not the steak.
> 
> ...


You make many valid points that I do not argue with. All I really was saying at the beginning is the DA's aren't all top notch and many of the best players aren't going DA for various reasons. In our case we are very fortunate because we offer a higher level of soccer compared to many DA programs for a fraction of the time and money. Find what works for your kid and go with it. Anyone exhausting a lot of time, money or both on DA will have a hard time seeing it objectively. Only time will tell how those kids really benefitted in the long run. I'm guessing the ROI will be insignificant between the two groups.


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## espola (Aug 10, 2017)

espola said:


> "having my son train in Europe a few times and seeing those systems up close, it is night and day compared to here. they are training kids to be professional. We are training kids for college."
> 
> What is different?


I gather from your repeated non-answer that the difference is that a senior American coach says "I guarantee that there will be college coaches watching your child play", and a European coach says "I guarantee that there will be professional team scouts watching your child play".  Otherwise, no difference in training?


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## thedudeabides (Aug 10, 2017)

espola said:


> I gather from your repeated non-answer that the difference is that a senior American coach says "I guarantee that there will be college coaches watching your child play", and a European coach says "I guarantee that there will be professional team scouts watching your child play".  Otherwise, no difference in training





espola said:


> I gather from your repeated non-answer that the difference is that a senior American coach says "I guarantee that there will be college coaches watching your child play", and a European coach says "I guarantee that there will be professional team scouts watching your child play".  Otherwise, no difference in training?


I did, I don't think you are fully comprehending. Have you been over to Europe to watch them train? They are much more focused on tactical play and less flashy play that isn't practical in a speedier game. Soccer IQ is revered and nurtured over there. 

I have only been to a few DA sessions for 3 different clubs. One was excellent and happened to be associated with a professional team. The other two were definitely a step down in training and quality of players from what we have. Which makes sense because now that there are so many DA options, parents are separating them on quality. It isn't enough to just say my kid plays DA. Well which one? How many smart kids that were really good at soccer, choose a strong academic college with no potential of playing over playing for a D2 that has weak academics. It happens all the time. 

I believe our team's training sessions are pretty close to the European sessions but we train about half the amount of hours. We spend a lot of time on tactics We also offer a lot of benefits that most US Clubs and probably not even DA's have like a speed coach, team doctor, and nutritionist in addition to our head coach, assistant coach and trainer. Only three of those are paid staff so we do know how to maximize resources while keeping costs down for the parents.


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## Advantage (Aug 10, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> I did, I don't think you are fully comprehending. Have you been over to Europe to watch them train? They are much more focused on tactical play and less flashy play that isn't practical in a speedier game. Soccer IQ is revered and nurtured over there.
> 
> I have only been to a few DA sessions for 3 different clubs. One was excellent and happened to be associated with a professional team. The other two were definitely a step down in training and quality of players from what we have. Which makes sense because now that there are so many DA options, parents are separating them on quality. It isn't enough to just say my kid plays DA. Well which one? How many smart kids that were really good at soccer, choose a strong academic college with no potential of playing over playing for a D2 that has weak academics. It happens all the time.
> 
> I believe our team's training sessions are pretty close to the European sessions but we train about half the amount of hours. We spend a lot of time on tactics We also offer a lot of benefits that most US Clubs and probably not even DA's have like a speed coach, team doctor, and nutritionist in addition to our head coach, assistant coach and trainer. Only three of those are paid staff so we do know how to maximize resources while keeping costs down for the parents.


Which DA club did not take your boy?
Sounds like you have some sort of resentment.


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## thedudeabides (Aug 10, 2017)

Advantage said:


> Which DA club did not take your boy?
> Sounds like you have some sort of resentment.


 I know it's hard to comprehend but if you had read all my replies you would know that a total of 6 were approached from our team. the top four players all turned it down. the bottom two that were borderline starters left. Draw your own conclusions.


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## ray8 (Aug 10, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> I did, I don't think you are fully comprehending. Have you been over to Europe to watch them train? They are much more focused on tactical play and less flashy play that isn't practical in a speedier game. Soccer IQ is revered and nurtured over there.


European clubs don't train the same way, or share a single approach to development. That's nuts.
Where did you go? Ireland? Never heard any DOC, anywhere in Europe, talk about WINS like you are.


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## thedudeabides (Aug 10, 2017)

ray8 said:


> European clubs don't train the same way, or share a single approach to development. That's nuts.
> Where did you go? Ireland? Never heard any DOC, anywhere in Europe, talk about WINS like you are.


I'll take your answer to be a no you haven't been there. No, not Ireland, EPL club. Pretty sure they care about winning. Do u12 DA's keep score? Of course they do and if you don't think they measure their progress by wins, you're nuts. Someone posed the question and I answered it based on my personal experiences and observations. Why don't we just compare notes in a few years when our kids age out.


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## ray8 (Aug 11, 2017)

thedudeabides said:


> I'll take your answer to be a no you haven't been there. No, not Ireland, EPL club. Pretty sure they care about winning. Do u12 DA's keep score? Of course they do and if you don't think they measure their progress by wins, you're nuts. Someone posed the question and I answered it based on my personal experiences and observations. Why don't we just compare notes in a few years when our kids age out.


Can't imagine what led you to believe a PL academy would care about winning a U12 game. And yes the so-called academies here do care about winning because the paying customers like wins. Only one of the myriad reasons we suck. 
So what team does your son play on?


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## ray8 (Aug 15, 2017)

Does it rhyme with Scammers?


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