# Academic v athletic scholarship



## Mic Nificent (May 29, 2020)

If there is more money and scholarships available on the academic side than the athletic side (only talking college soccer) wouldn’t it be better to have your kid focus on the academic scholarship while still training, playing for a good club coach and building a rapport with the college coaches letting them know you intend to make the team as a walk on rather than on an athletic scholarship?


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## gkrent (May 29, 2020)

Most players are doing this already;  however it seems like a bad move to tell a coach you intend on being a walk on with academic money when many times a student doesn't know until their senior year what, if any, scholarships they will get.  Further, many times academic scholarships don't cover everything.    Many packages are combinations of both athletic and other types of scholarships.


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## dk_b (May 29, 2020)

Mic Nificent said:


> If there is more money and scholarships available on the academic side than the athletic side (only talking college soccer) wouldn’t it be better to have your kid focus on the academic scholarship while still training, playing for a good club coach and building a rapport with the college coaches letting them know you intend to make the team as a walk on rather than on an athletic scholarship?


I think players need to assess this calculation constantly through the recruiting process but unless a coach is ready to commit athletic $$$ and the player stops her/him and says, "don't bother. We have it covered through academics or family", a player's intent to make the team as a walk-on is not so much a player declaration but a coach's invitation.  Also, if the player is telling that to the coach, the coach may wonder whether that player can make the sport a significant enough priority.  That probably varies coach-by-coach and some vets on this board may have specific anecdotes on this topic.


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## socalkdg (May 29, 2020)

State Schools and Universities in California have academic money based on need as well.   Oldest(non-athlete) was offered up to 19K at some private schools, but not a single dollar at any of the State or UC schools.   Everyone's mileage will vary, but go for both.


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## Mic Nificent (May 29, 2020)

Thanks for the replies. I was just curious


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## SoccerFan4Life (May 29, 2020)

COVID has clearly given schools a reason to walk away from atheltic scholarships and to drop some sports altogether.   This is a new era for these colleges as they have lost a lot of funds to support scholarships and sports programs.


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## espola (May 29, 2020)

Mic Nificent said:


> If there is more money and scholarships available on the academic side than the athletic side (only talking college soccer) wouldn’t it be better to have your kid focus on the academic scholarship while still training, playing for a good club coach and building a rapport with the college coaches letting them know you intend to make the team as a walk on rather than on an athletic scholarship?


Ask the coach to work out the best plan for you, and then have an academic dean or neutral third party check it. There are limits to how much total a school can give to anyone receiving athletic aid, and their total of all athletic grants for the whole program is limited year by year by the NCAA rules (It keeps rich schools from just buying the sport) and school budget (which sometimes allows the rich school to just buy the sport).  Kids who receive no athletic money have more freedom, but I don't know if the rules are as liberal as the most generous academic scholarships, where a student is effectively paid to go to school there.


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## eastbaysoccer (May 30, 2020)

Athletic $$$$ offered typically translates to how bad a coach wants u and is usually proportional to the amount of play time your dd will receive.

academic $$$ is best as the coach can’t take that away.

50% athletic is pretty good IMO. That plus an additional 20K in academic is great!


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## SD_Soccer (May 31, 2020)

eastbaysoccer said:


> Athletic $$$$ offered typically translates to how bad a coach wants u and is usually proportional to the amount of play time your dd will receive.
> 
> academic $$$ is best as the coach can’t take that away.
> 
> 50% athletic is pretty good IMO. That plus an additional 20K in academic is great!


Definitely don’t share that you don’t need athletic money. Maximize what you can get on all available money. Most soccer players get a fractional athletic scholarship (1/4, 1/2, etc.) when they receive athletic money (many recruited players at D1 schools receive no athletic money). As someone else said, athletic money is tied to how much impact they expect a player to have. Get what you can from need-based, merit-based and athletic scholarships at a school she likes, has the major she wants and can help her get the right career after college (or get into the right graduate school). But at the end, academics is what will be most important to her life— college soccer is a means to an end.


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## Simisoccerfan (Jun 4, 2020)

From our experience these were two separate awards.  The scholarship offer came from the coach.   During the application process all applicants were considered for financial and academic scholarships.   We did not qualify for a financial scholarship.  But my dd's grades, test scores and other activities did result in the university deciding to offer her a very generous academic scholarship.   I am not sure if either groups know that she is getting money from both sides.  This only comes together in her financial account at the school and we have not discussed the full picture of what she is getting with anyone at the school.   In her last two years there is a good chance the sum of the two will exceed her total cost.  My understanding is that any excess award will be returned to the school I just don't know if it will be to the academic or athletic side.


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## Giesbock (Jun 8, 2020)

Question- SoccerWire has a list of 2022 players who have made College Commitments .  I didn’t count # of players per page but there are 6 pages...the very first one is a D1 school.
How does that work?  I thought June 15 after sophomore year was the “start” date?  Unless all those players committed several years ago before blackout period rule went into effect?  Can someone explain? Thanks


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## NorCal (Jun 8, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> Question- SoccerWire has a list of 2022 players who have made College Commitments .  I didn’t count # of players per page but there are 6 pages...the very first one is a D1 school.
> How does that work?  I thought June 15 after sophomore year was the “start” date?  Unless all those players committed several years ago before blackout period rule went into effect?  Can someone explain? Thanks


Top Drawer is the same, you can filter out the search by grad year, State, position, etc....the girls on the 2022 list that are committed did so before last years rule change. The rest will have to wait until June 15th (or later).


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## Giesbock (Jun 8, 2020)

Got it. I thought that rule went into effect several years ago... thanks.  
My daughter excited and cautiously optimistic about next week.


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## vegasguy (Jun 8, 2020)

They are also verbal and non-binding by either party.


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## full90 (Jun 8, 2020)

For anyone with a junior to be who will start talking to colleges next week, will you guys commit without visiting a campus/meeting a coach in person? Just curious.


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## Giesbock (Jun 9, 2020)

No way. Too early, too many conversations to be had and wiggle room at their end.  We’ve talked it over and plan to bide time, visit, meet coach(es), meet admissions team, etc.

Sure I’m just repeating what’s been said before...there’s a long list of emotional and practical things to consider- campus vibe, academics, direct flight from SNA, what’s the worst winter day look like, what’s the hottest summer day like (mosquitoes buzzing and dripping humidity or just plain broiling) how’s the immediate surrounding neighborhood, cultural center or out in the sticks, local politics, crazy gap between in state and out of state tuition, living on campus opportunities or spilling into surrounding communities??  Oh yeah, how’s the team? How’s the coach? Do they WANT her and need her or will she be lucky to get a few throw away minutes as a freshman...?

Pretty sure the school that checks all the boxes does not exist so we’ll ponder it some more and come to what hopefully is a good decision.  

Who if anyone will call??  Not a clue but they have her contact info not mine!  Guess she can do some vetting of her own!


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## Ellejustus (Jun 9, 2020)

full90 said:


> For anyone with a junior to be who will start talking to colleges next week, will you guys commit without visiting a campus/meeting a coach in person? Just curious.


My dd will take her three "official visits" once she narrows it down to her top three.  So many to choose from, where does one start?  She might just jump to the pros after HS.  I believe we will have a very nice pro league for the girls in the next two to three years.  Maybe she will be a one and done?  Go girls soccer wherever you play.  Soccer for all and I love that.  Soccer will bring unity to all of us and the world


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## Ellejustus (Jun 9, 2020)

Giesbock said:


> No way. Too early, too many conversations to be had and wiggle room at their end.  We’ve talked it over and plan to bide time, visit, meet coach(es), meet admissions team, etc.
> 
> Sure I’m just repeating what’s been said before...there’s a long list of emotional and practical things to consider- campus vibe, academics, direct flight from SNA, what’s the worst winter day look like, what’s the hottest summer day like (mosquitoes buzzing and dripping humidity or just plain broiling) how’s the immediate surrounding neighborhood, cultural center or out in the sticks, local politics, crazy gap between in state and out of state tuition, living on campus opportunities or spilling into surrounding communities??  Oh yeah, how’s the team? How’s the coach? Do they WANT her and need her or will she be lucky to get a few throw away minutes as a freshman...?
> 
> ...


Bro, this is your greatest take on here.  Very well put and I mean that and I appreciate it very much. The one's who signed early for the most part had a school only in mind and or got a great package and really good for them.  Some felt pressured and that is no one's fault.  It was the old system and one I was too harsh with at times.  I just had a lot of pain from my past and I took it out on some of you here.  Please forgive me.  One day at a time and no one size cleat fits all


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## Simisoccerfan (Jun 9, 2020)

Many colleges do not offer the official visit prior to committing.  They seem to want to save the official paid trip for during the fall season of the commits Senior year in HS to bring in all of the committed girls on a weekend were home games are played.   You only get one paid trip to any school.  They also tend to do alot of PR stuff during that trip for the upcoming recruiting class.   I don't know of any girls getting paid trips prior to committing.  I know it happens but not often.


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## Simisoccerfan (Jun 9, 2020)

This was the one thing that surprised me in the recruiting process.  The cost associated with getting out to the various colleges interested in my dd.


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## full90 (Jun 9, 2020)

Are you aware of the recent rule changes that allowed visits to begin in the junior year? This would’ve been the first fall that it could happen so most kids and coaches were planning on kids taking multiple official visits before committing. These new rules were to allow kids to visit on the schools dime as well as get to know coaches and programs prior to committing.

now that won’t take effect but the old way of doing it (travel on own dime, commit then take official during senior year) should be over.


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## Simisoccerfan (Jun 9, 2020)

full90 said:


> Are you aware of the recent rule changes that allowed visits to begin in the junior year? This would’ve been the first fall that it could happen so most kids and coaches were planning on kids taking multiple official visits before committing. These new rules were to allow kids to visit on the schools dime as well as get to know coaches and programs prior to committing.
> 
> now that won’t take effect but the old way of doing it (travel on own dime, commit then take official during senior year) should be over.


I doubt it.  You only get one trip paid to a school. Coaches will want to use that on committed recruits in the fall of their senior year. Plus with funding shortages you really think they are going to spend (or even have) money on uncommitted HS kids?  This ain’t football or basketball.


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## full90 (Jun 10, 2020)

From what I heard coaches were going to use the visit on uncommitted kids that otherwise wouldn’t pay to visit that school. Now we won’t know how it’s used for a while, but everything I heard was that coaches would use the visit in the junior year to get kids on campus. Schools that asked uncommitted kids to visit on their own dime take a huge risk that those kids never come. ESP when other schools are paying for them to visit.


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## KS22 (Jun 10, 2020)

Each kid can take 5 visits during their junior and senior year. Only one visit per school, but they can visit 5 schools officially. So if a program is seriously interested, they will fly them in, and pay the expenses.


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## Simisoccerfan (Jun 11, 2020)

Which one of you has *already* been through the process and have *actually* had your kid out on paid recruiting trips?  Please speak up.  I can only speak for my dd and all of her former players that she played with.  None of them got paid recruiting trips until they committed and it was during the fall of their senior season.  That is about 22 college players with about 17 playing D1.  Just saying


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## Ellejustus (Jun 11, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Which one of you has *already* been through the process and have *actually* had your kid out on paid recruiting trips?  Please speak up.  I can only speak for my dd and all of her former players that she played with.  None of them got paid recruiting trips until they committed and it was during the fall of their senior season.  That is about 22 college players with about 17 playing D1.  Just saying


I'm only dreaming it for her but know it's 1% chance of that happening.  I plan on paying for the visits btw.  I hope each coach will take the time to meet my dd and get to know her a little and she will get to know them as well and then take some time and then make a decision.


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## full90 (Jun 11, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Which one of you has *already* been through the process and have *actually* had your kid out on paid recruiting trips?  Please speak up.  I can only speak for my dd and all of her former players that she played with.  None of them got paid recruiting trips until they committed and it was during the fall of their senior season.  That is about 22 college players with about 17 playing D1.  Just saying


the rule literally just changed. That’s what we are talking about. With the new rule change allowing for 5 paid visits with no on campus contact allowed prior to junior year, will you take some or all of them before committing? Not how it was... how it is now with the new rule change. Are you aware the recruiting rules changed this year?

now those changes are on hold. No officials or even unofficials for a long time. So my question was: since calls and offers can happen Monday but no visits, will your kids commit without having visited?


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## Soccerfan2 (Jun 11, 2020)

full90 said:


> the rule literally just changed. That’s what we are talking about. With the new rule change allowing for 5 paid visits with no on campus contact allowed prior to junior year, will you take some or all of them before committing? Not how it was... how it is now with the new rule change. Are you aware the recruiting rules changed this year?
> 
> now those changes are on hold. No officials or even unofficials for a long time. So my question was: since calls and offers can happen Monday but no visits, will your kids commit without having visited?


The rule delayed the communication (and verbal commitment) timeline. 5 paid visits were always allowed. I think come Monday you’ll find Simisoccerfan is right and the change has little bearing on how recruiting trips are handled. If anything, budgets are tighter than normal now. Yes, most kids will be asked to commit prior to a paid for visit. You can always visit on your own. It’s not a lot of players that will be catered to in the way you are hoping.


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## espola (Jun 11, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Which one of you has *already* been through the process and have *actually* had your kid out on paid recruiting trips?  Please speak up.  I can only speak for my dd and all of her former players that she played with.  None of them got paid recruiting trips until they committed and it was during the fall of their senior season.  That is about 22 college players with about 17 playing D1.  Just saying


It was years ago, and it was on the men's side.  My younger son got housing and meals at two different D1 schools over weekends in the fall of his senior year, and I got a breakfast ticket at one of those schools.  We didn't ask for anything more, I paid for our transportation and most of my own meals.  My older son got housing and meals over a weekend at a D2 school, and I paid for everything else.  One of their HS teammates a couple of years younger got the full treatment - flight, meals, lodging, on a game weekend and I took hm to and from the airport - in his Senior HS year before he committed anywhere.   That kid was really tuned into the rules - when we went out for dinner after the game, he insisted on paying for his own meal.


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## MMMM (Jun 12, 2020)

Soccerfan2 said:


> The rule delayed the communication (and verbal commitment) timeline. 5 paid visits were always allowed. I think come Monday you’ll find Simisoccerfan is right and the change has little bearing on how recruiting trips are handled. If anything, budgets are tighter than normal now. Yes, most kids will be asked to commit prior to a paid for visit. You can always visit on your own. It’s not a lot of players that will be catered to in the way you are hoping.


Between COVID and tighter budgets, i bet we see more kids targeting schools closer to home anyway, where it’s relatively easy to drive to campus for a quick look around on an unofficial visit.


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## Dubs (Jun 12, 2020)

full90 said:


> the rule literally just changed. That’s what we are talking about. With the new rule change allowing for 5 paid visits with no on campus contact allowed prior to junior year, will you take some or all of them before committing? Not how it was... how it is now with the new rule change. Are you aware the recruiting rules changed this year?
> 
> now those changes are on hold. No officials or even unofficials for a long time. So my question was: since calls and offers can happen Monday but no visits, will your kids commit without having visited?


@Simisoccerfan is 100% correct.  My DD and her entire recruiting class had their official visit together as Juniors.  I guess it's possible official visits can happen their Junior year without a committment, but given what's been said about budgets, they'll most likely work it as I described.


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## full90 (Jun 12, 2020)

It’s a moot point this year as visits won’t be allowed at all (official or unofficial until who knows when).

but if the rule change had gone thru the top schools would have brought kids in for a visit before commitments. If a jerk coach asked for a commitment before paying for a visit then that’s on them.
This would’ve been the first fall where the rule change (no communication or visits prior to a certain date), so we won’t know what change it would’ve had. But the coaches I know were prepared to offer paid visits to their top junior recruits.


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## Dubs (Jun 12, 2020)

I'm not sure I agree.  Take COVID out of the equation and from our experience (Simi will tell you the same) the coaches are going to save those $$ for other things than official visits.  They can and have gotten away with having girls come in for unofficial visits and accomplished pretty much the same thing sans picking up the tab for flights and weekend hotel stays.  This may have been how it went down years prior, but now the official visit is used, budget wise, for what happened with my DD.  Committments these days, by in large, are long done before the official visit.  If someone else (recently) had a different experience, I'm listening.



full90 said:


> It’s a moot point this year as visits won’t be allowed at all (official or unofficial until who knows when).
> 
> but if the rule change had gone thru the top schools would have brought kids in for a visit before commitments. If a jerk coach asked for a commitment before paying for a visit then that’s on them.
> This would’ve been the first fall where the rule change (no communication or visits prior to a certain date), so we won’t know what change it would’ve had. But thec oaches I know were prepared to offer paid visits to their top junior recruits.


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## espola (Jun 12, 2020)

Dubs said:


> I'm not sure I agree.  Take COVID out of the equation and from our experience (Simi will tell you the same) the coaches are going to save those $$ for other things than official visits.  They can and have gotten away with having girls come in for unofficial visits and accomplished pretty much the same thing sans picking up the tab for flights and weekend hotel stays.  This may have been how it went down years prior, but now the official visit is used, budget wise, for what happened with my DD.  Committments these days, by in large, are long done before the official visit.  If someone else (recently) had a different experience, I'm listening.


They can also invite players to their summer or November player ID camps and charge $100 for what is essentially an onfield tryout.


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## Soccer43 (Jun 12, 2020)

If the school really, really, really likes your player they will pay for her to visit the school to try to ensure a commitment.  It does happen, I know.  It isn't very common and I wouldn't expect it but it can happen for certain players


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## gkrent (Jun 13, 2020)

Simisoccerfan said:


> Many colleges do not offer the official visit prior to committing.  They seem to want to save the official paid trip for during the fall season of the commits Senior year in HS to bring in all of the committed girls on a weekend were home games are played.   You only get one paid trip to any school.  They also tend to do alot of PR stuff during that trip for the upcoming recruiting class.   I don't know of any girls getting paid trips prior to committing.  I know it happens but not often.


One of my players had 3 paid trips before committing but that was like 10 years ago     I'm sure things will change again with these new rules.


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## SD_Soccer (Jun 13, 2020)

gkrent said:


> One of my players had 3 paid trips before committing but that was like 10 years ago     I'm sure things will change again with these new rules.


I am speculating here, but with football crowds (either none or greatly reduced) at serious risk in the fall (i.e., what pays the bills for other sports), I would expect athletic directors at many/most universities to tighten up budgets to try to ensure they don’t incur large losses this year. Travel for any company is always an easy expense to cut, so I would not be counting on paid visits this year (maybe next year, too).


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## full90 (Jun 13, 2020)

Dubs said:


> I'm not sure I agree.  Take COVID out of the equation and from our experience (Simi will tell you the same) the coaches are going to save those $$ for other things than official visits.  They can and have gotten away with having girls come in for unofficial visits and accomplished pretty much the same thing sans picking up the tab for flights and weekend hotel stays.  This may have been how it went down years prior, but now the official visit is used, budget wise, for what happened with my DD.  Committments these days, by in large, are long done before the official visit.  If someone else (recently) had a different experience, I'm listening.


The rule JUST changed. There is no early commitments anymore. Coaches can’t talk, offer or host kids until their junior year. Early commitments from freshman and sophs are over.

June 15 after soph year is first contact.
Fall official visit during junior year 
Then commitments. That’s what the rule change is intended to do. To help prevent parents from having to pay for the visits. This would’ve been the first fall with this in place so what’s happened the past years with early commitments before official visits were allowed is not an accurate comparison.


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## Simisoccerfan (Jun 13, 2020)

full90 said:


> The rule JUST changed. There is no early commitments anymore. Coaches can’t talk, offer or host kids until their junior year. Early commitments from freshman and sophs are over.
> 
> June 15 after soph year is first contact.
> Fall official visit during junior year
> Then commitments. That’s what the rule change is intended to do. To help prevent parents from having to pay for the visits. This would’ve been the first fall with this in place so what’s happened the past years with early commitments before official visits were allowed is not an accurate comparison.


You got it wrong.  The rule change had nothing to do with having parents not pay for trips.  Instead it was all about girls committing when they were too young.  Good luck if you think your kid is going to get paid trips so a school can sell them to her.


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