# 2021 Women’s D1 Soccer Talk!!!!



## Abraham Parnasis

As we look toward the remainder of the Junior year for our DDs, it would be helpful to hear from recruited players and non-recruited players about how they are feeling about the process/verbal commitments made thus far?  Confidence in commitments~is the “right school”?  Good choices?  Those still looking for recruitment how close are you all to reaching the verbal commitment stage?  Those DDs not near the final stage of verbal commit, is it worth the remaining time with your club -DA or ECNL, (time, travel, money, commitment)?  Please share!


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## RHMF23

Abraham Parnasis said:


> As we look toward the remainder of the Junior year for our DDs, it would be helpful to hear from recruited players and non-recruited players about how they are feeling about the process/verbal commitments made thus far?  Confidence in commitments~is the “right school”?  Good choices?  Those still looking for recruitment how close are you all to reaching the verbal commitment stage?  Those DDs not near the final stage of verbal commit, is it worth the remaining time with your club -DA or ECNL, (time, travel, money, commitment)?  Please share!


My DD was a 2019, and committed at the end of her soph yr.  She wanted P5, big school, and she wanted to play, with the opportunity to start her first year.  Once committed she continued playing ECNL, but did not attend Nationals her Sr yr because of her summer report date.  She continued getting interest but kept her commitment.  She started and played every game her fresh yr.  However, she realized in the recruitment process schools that want you vs need you will have their players, even ones you know, sugar coat things to hook you.  At the end of her freshman yr: she is disappointed with the leadership, says club practices were just as challenging, and is looking and hoping the grit of team and culture will improve with the incoming class.  When she's at home she is still working on her own to improve and is frustrated.  She loves the game, and doesn't want to transfer, but she wonders if she should have somehow someway spent more time investigating the team culture and staff if that was possible.
Hope this helps.


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## Soccerfan2

Great initial question and great answer. I’m looking forward to hearing more people’s  experiences too!


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## Dubs

Abraham Parnasis said:


> As we look toward the remainder of the Junior year for our DDs, it would be helpful to hear from recruited players and non-recruited players about how they are feeling about the process/verbal commitments made thus far?  Confidence in commitments~is the “right school”?  Good choices?  Those still looking for recruitment how close are you all to reaching the verbal commitment stage?  Those DDs not near the final stage of verbal commit, is it worth the remaining time with your club -DA or ECNL, (time, travel, money, commitment)?  Please share!


My DD committed Oct of her Sophomore year.  She's a 2021 grad year.  A year into the committment, she feels even stronger about her choice than she did before.  She understands it will be the Hunger games while she's there (P5 school), but that kind of environment appeals to her.  The current sentiment with the club team is one of a little bit of indifference.  Half her team still not committed, as some are 03's but 2022 grads, as well as 2021s still not committed.  Playing time this Spring will be interesting to see, as we really don't know how coach will navigate it.  The committed girls don't really have a lot to play for other than prep for colllege.  Taking trips seems like a bit of a waste now, but DD has to be there to play and support her team.  For non-committed girls, playing on a DA or ECNL team is absolutely worth it because of the built in exposure they will get.  All the events will be heavily attended by coaches.  That's my two cents...


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## Soccerhelper

I love this thread.  Thank you for sharing your true stories with all of us.  This is hard sometimes.  I'm glad that the NCAA changed the rules.  My dd is 2022. Working really hard to have gr8t grades right now.  Also taking the time to do lot's of research. My dd will start visiting the campuses, coach and the culture of the schools she desires to study and play at during her Jr year.  I'm sure if a big time program comes after her June 15th she might like the attention and take a peak at the deal.  I would like to see my dd and other girls experience what it's like to visit a campus, be recruited and meet the team and take their time trying to make a big decision.  I'm still shocked that so many 8th graders did verbal over the phone with a coach they never met.  Good luck to everyone and I look forward to hearing more stories.


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## Abraham Parnasis

Thank you so far for the stories and transparency.  It is good to hear experiences from all angles!


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## Simisoccerfan

My dd was a 2019 grad.  She committed during the Summer between her Junior and Senior years.   She only moved to her last club and played DA starting her Junior year.   Her smaller club did not give her much exposure.   The feeling was she was late to the game and it seemed like a lot of schools were already done with their recruiting.   This was really a blessing in disguise since she did end up with multiple offers and she was older and more mature when she made her decision.  She certainly loves her school and her team.  Personally, I think it is nuts that coaches make offers before kids are Juniors.  I really think it is nuts that parents actually allow their kids to commit so early.  Good thing though that she committed prior to tearing her acl.   The 2nd half of fall season was great and I think she will have a great Spring season.   I also just learned she will be playing with a UWS team this summer!  So bottom line is that everyone should not be in such a rush!


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## dk_b

My daughter will be graduating this spring and committed after her freshman year of HS.  While I think the school and program remains the right one for her (lots of reasons why, only a couple are soccer-specific though the overall athletic dept figures importantly), I am a big supporter of the change in the rules.  Sitting with her during meetings with coaches when she was just 14 was really odd - here's this very young kid and here are these very experienced soccer people and they are talking about money and playing time and college majors and everything else.  She'd have really mature insights into some things (especially if it related to the pitch) but could not really speak with any insight about what she might expect in a college (the social life, the academic support, etc.)).  Think about how many of us were ready to make such a big decision - the biggest to that point in their young lives and one of the biggest in any life - before even completing a year of HS?  The new rule eliminates a feeling of pressure to commit - even if you have multiple offers or a lot of interest, especially as a GK, you feel pressure that THAT spot will be gone - before you have matured enough to have a real clue about college.

Your kids in the HS class of '21 fell under the first change in the rule, if my memory serves, and then about 6 weeks of the current rule so probably a number of your kids committed pretty early. I'm not going to sit here and say the kids should continue to explore options just because there's interest (I think that is risky for all but a very small # of kids) but I do think it is good to make repeated visits to the school of choice and to have real, deep, substantive conversations with your kid about the choice - those conversations will change as the child gets older, can talk with clubmates who are a year or two ahead, develops a better understanding of what a "college student athlete" means. You may uncover reasons why doing some quiet exploration actually does make sense or some opportunities to help reinforce why a good decision a year or two ago remains a good decision even as your child has changed (that was the case for us).


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## espola

dk_b said:


> My daughter will be graduating this spring and committed after her freshman year of HS.  While I think the school and program remains the right one for her (lots of reasons why, only a couple are soccer-specific though the overall athletic dept figures importantly), I am a big supporter of the change in the rules.  Sitting with her during meetings with coaches when she was just 14 was really odd - here's this very young kid and here are these very experienced soccer people and they are talking about money and playing time and college majors and everything else.  She'd have really mature insights into some things (especially if it related to the pitch) but could not really speak with any insight about what she might expect in a college (the social life, the academic support, etc.)).  Think about how many of us were ready to make such a big decision - the biggest to that point in their young lives and one of the biggest in any life - before even completing a year of HS?  The new rule eliminates a feeling of pressure to commit - even if you have multiple offers or a lot of interest, especially as a GK, you feel pressure that THAT spot will be gone - before you have matured enough to have a real clue about college.
> 
> Your kids in the HS class of '21 fell under the first change in the rule, if my memory serves, and then about 6 weeks of the current rule so probably a number of your kids committed pretty early. I'm not going to sit here and say the kids should continue to explore options just because there's interest (I think that is risky for all but a very small # of kids) but I do think it is good to make repeated visits to the school of choice and to have real, deep, substantive conversations with your kid about the choice - those conversations will change as the child gets older, can talk with clubmates who are a year or two ahead, develops a better understanding of what a "college student athlete" means. You may uncover reasons why doing some quiet exploration actually does make sense or some opportunities to help reinforce why a good decision a year or two ago remains a good decision even as your child has changed (that was the case for us).


I have never been able to figure out the point to an early commitment - it puts all the cards in the college coach's hands, even though there is no penalty to the player or his family for backing out before NLI day in the HS Senior year.


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## dk_b

espola said:


> I have never been able to figure out the point to an early commitment - it puts all the cards in the college coach's hands, even though there is no penalty to the player or his family for backing out before NLI day in the HS Senior year.


I can only speak to my own kid's experience (as I said, I am glad that there are more restrictions now):  she's a GK and there are limited GK positions at schools (i) she'd want to attend, (ii) that have the type of "college atmosphere" she was seeking, (iii) where she'd have a good chance of playing all 4 years (really difficult for a GK), (iv) at the level of conference she desired . . . I could go on.  She had one school that said to her after we expressed a desire to wait from the spring to the fall b/4 she made a decision (she wanted to see the team "in season" - see a practice, see a game), "that makes sense and you know how badly we want you. But, there are a couple of really good keeper who have reached out to us and we are going to see them" (and there were other comments to suggest that they did not expect them to be "better" but that one might be willing to commit).  That's very tough for a young athlete to hear and while my wife and I felt pretty good about her chances to find the "right" spot, we had never done this before so even we were a bit off kilter.  We know more about the process now than we did and we'd handle it differently today.  You may not understand "the point" of an early commitment or my kid's early commitment but I think each story is unique and a broad brush seems off.


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## espola

dk_b said:


> I can only speak to my own kid's experience (as I said, I am glad that there are more restrictions now):  she's a GK and there are limited GK positions at schools (i) she'd want to attend, (ii) that have the type of "college atmosphere" she was seeking, (iii) where she'd have a good chance of playing all 4 years (really difficult for a GK), (iv) at the level of conference she desired . . . I could go on.  She had one school that said to her after we expressed a desire to wait from the spring to the fall b/4 she made a decision (she wanted to see the team "in season" - see a practice, see a game), "that makes sense and you know how badly we want you. But, there are a couple of really good keeper who have reached out to us and we are going to see them" (and there were other comments to suggest that they did not expect them to be "better" but that one might be willing to commit).  That's very tough for a young athlete to hear and while my wife and I felt pretty good about her chances to find the "right" spot, we had never done this before so even we were a bit off kilter.  We know more about the process now than we did and we'd handle it differently today.  You may not understand "the point" of an early commitment or my kid's early commitment but I think each story is unique and a broad brush seems off.


As you pointed out, every kid's story is different.  The early commit with which I am most familiar was a solid player with good grades whose parents had been college athletes themselves so they knew how the system worked and didn't need or want scholarship money.  It cost the coach nothing for the "commitment" the summer after his HS sophomore year, after which the mother started working on recruiting my kid.


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## Dubs

dk_b said:


> I can only speak to my own kid's experience (as I said, I am glad that there are more restrictions now):  she's a GK and there are limited GK positions at schools (i) she'd want to attend, (ii) that have the type of "college atmosphere" she was seeking, (iii) where she'd have a good chance of playing all 4 years (really difficult for a GK), (iv) at the level of conference she desired . . . I could go on.  She had one school that said to her after we expressed a desire to wait from the spring to the fall b/4 she made a decision (she wanted to see the team "in season" - see a practice, see a game), "that makes sense and you know how badly we want you. But, there are a couple of really good keeper who have reached out to us and we are going to see them" (and there were other comments to suggest that they did not expect them to be "better" but that one might be willing to commit).  That's very tough for a young athlete to hear and while my wife and I felt pretty good about her chances to find the "right" spot, we had never done this before so even we were a bit off kilter.  We know more about the process now than we did and we'd handle it differently today.  You may not understand "the point" of an early commitment or my kid's early commitment but I think each story is unique and a broad brush seems off.


Agree with all you've said... 100%.  It's also important to acknowledge that, though the process is the process (committing early or not), that process is owned by your DD and your family alone.  When you're in it, it can very stressful expericence but also very exciting.  Many emotions are at play, along with feelings of "am I making the right decision" when deciding at such an early age, but each and everyone's journey is unique and personal.  Other than sharing these stories (which were extremely helpful to me when we were going through it), it's difficult to navigate the process beause you can't really talk to anyone about it on your DDs team and certainly DD is not talking about it with her teammates... not appropriate.  Lots of moving parts on the journey, but it honestly it's so great.  Many lessons learned by DD going through this and having to mature through it.  In retrospect, I don't think we would've done anything different.  Like I said in my initial comment, my DD is 100 times more pumped about her decision 18 months later.


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## Soccerhelper

We chose the no email or phone contact college coach old 8th grade way. I dont put anyone down for taking the early deal if its offered for dream school and all the stars lined up for your baller. What I didnt like was the fear mongering from some aggressive docs and club coaches,  "Hurry hurry, step write up to claim your school.  Hurry hurry hurry, all da scholarship money will be all gone for 2022 if you dont call coach now."  It was like speed dating I think from some of what my friends told me about the process. Some coaches would say, "you're my #1 fwrd. I need an answer by Monday."  100% out of state offer at power 5 with a promise to play as a Freshman.  Hard to walk away from full ride and playing time as a Fr and many went for it. I know 2 of 6 who have already said they will change mind at signing day.  Two more years to go and I will let you know how what the other 4 will do.  I know one will honor the verbal because both parents went to the school.


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## dk_b

Soccerhelper said:


> We chose the no email or phone contact college coach old 8th grade way. I dont put anyone down for taking the early deal if its offered for dream school and all the stars lined up for your baller. What I didnt like was the fear mongering from some aggressive docs and club coaches,  "Hurry hurry, step write up to claim your school.  Hurry hurry hurry, all da scholarship money will be all gone for 2022 if you dont call coach now."  It was like speed dating I think from some of what my friends told me about the process. Some coaches would say, "you're my #1 fwrd. I need an answer by Monday."  100% out of state offer at power 5 with a promise to play as a Freshman.  Hard to walk away from full ride and playing time as a Fr and many went for it. I know 2 of 6 who have already said they will change mind at signing day.  Two more years to go and I will let you know how what the other 4 will do.  I know one will honor the verbal because both parents went to the school.


Every early commit should be careful about promises of playing time.  Obviously, a player receiving a full ride is EXPECTED to contribute right away (they don't and can't just hand those out willy-nilly) so, in that sense, money talks but the earlier the player commits, the greater the chance that that another recruit comes in or that a player progresses differently than hoped, etc.  I mean, Macario did not commit to Stanford right away so someone may have lost some playing time when she changed her mind.


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## outside!

espola said:


> I have never been able to figure out the point to an early commitment - it puts all the cards in the college coach's hands, even though there is no penalty to the player or his family for backing out before NLI day in the HS Senior year.


Scholarship money might not be available if you commit later. That is a big deal for many players.


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## eastbaysoccer

#1  -  choose a school for academics and fit

#2 -  coaches recruit.  Recruiting means telling you everything you want to hear to get you to commit.    Trust none of them.  It's business and they are trying keep their jobs or get a promotion.


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## espola

outside! said:


> Scholarship money might not be available if you commit later. That is a big deal for many players.


That's the standard college coach position.


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## dk_b

espola said:


> That's the standard college coach position.


yes and some of that is BS but at a certain point or at certain levels that is necessarily true


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## espola

dk_b said:


> yes and some of that is BS but at a certain point or at certain levels that is necessarily true


Coaches have been known to balance the books by cutting or shorting the money to upperclassmen who are underperforming.  It's brutal, I know, but it happens.


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## eastbaysoccer

I know a player that got over 80 percent scholarship and she didn’t play for 2 years and transferred.  Although one would think the amount of money would be proportional to play time it clearly is not always true.


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## Soccerhelper

I think lot's of these coaches had it hard too with old rules.  They had to gamble on potential.  I think it would be hard to know 100% about an 8th grader and what that 8th grader will be like as 17 and 18 year old but sometimes you have to commit 80% to that player.  I know this.  If you want to win, you need to find some players that have to win and need to win or they get sick to their stomach with all the losing, like Kobe.  It can;t all be about development and studies imho.


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## espola

eastbaysoccer said:


> I know a player that got over 80 percent scholarship and she didn’t play for 2 years and transferred.  Although one would think the amount of money would be proportional to play time it clearly is not always true.


The method I have heard of is that a player will receive 50% or so the first year and if things go well the first year the amount will be increased year by year.  Otherwise, the money that would have gone to the increases is available for new recruits.


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## gkrent

espola said:


> I have never been able to figure out the point to an early commitment - it puts all the cards in the college coach's hands, even though there is no penalty to the player or his family for backing out before NLI day in the HS Senior year.


GKS tend to commit earlier because of the limited number of spots.


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## eastbaysoccer

espola said:


> The method I have heard of is that a player will receive 50% or so the first year and if things go well the first year the amount will be increased year by year.  Otherwise, the money that would have gone to the increases is available for new recruits.


I know Jerry Smith implements a method like that.  He saves 1-2 scholarships that he can reward players with if they improve.  My daughter got a set athletic rate plus academic which just about covers everything.  IMO a fixed rate over 4 years is best if the coach is willing to give it.


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## eastbaysoccer

I think coaches are willing to wait on the studs but not so much for the middle and lower tier recruits.


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## Simisoccerfan

If (and it is a big if!) a D1 school is fully funded they only have 14 scholarships available.   Some schools limit this to the in-state price and other don't. Many college rosters have 30 plus players.   Do the math.  Very few full rides are being offered out there.   If your kid is being offered 50% or more they are expected to be an impact player.   I also agree with Espola's comment about how money can be back loaded.


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## SD_Soccer

Simisoccerfan said:


> If (and it is a big if!) a D1 school is fully funded they only have 14 scholarships available.   Some schools limit this to the in-state price and other don't. Many college rosters have 30 plus players.   Do the math.  Very few full rides are being offered out there.   If your kid is being offered 50% or more they are expected to be an impact player.   I also agree with Espola's comment about how money can be back loaded.


Which is why if you help your son or daughter focus on grades and test scores, there is merit money available at many schools (D1, D2 and D3).  And that money is not tied to performance or playing time.


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## outside!

espola said:


> That's the standard college coach position.


In many cases it is also true.


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## gotothebushes

Questions with recruiting during this Coronavirus Pandemic - With Sophomores and Juniors, has the recruiting season come to a complete halt? For Sophomores, since school is technically done, how's that working out to contact coaches. How is the recruiting process going to Juniors? Just curious because I only can imagine how difficult this this.


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## dk_b

gotothebushes said:


> Questions with recruiting during this Coronavirus Pandemic - With Sophomores and Juniors, has the recruiting season come to a complete halt? For Sophomores, since school is technically done, how's that working out to contact coaches. How is the recruiting process going to Juniors? Just curious because I only can imagine how difficult this this.


I responded to you on the other thread.  Yes, complete halt (according to the NCAA). Still June 15 for Sophs (assuming current moratorium is lifted) since the rule is June 15 after Soph year, not when the school year ends (plenty of schools end by the end of May and I thought my kid's school was one of the only ones that go all the way until mid-June)


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## Ellejustus

Hallelujah, No Sat Scores for 2021!!!  So lucky my dd just said.  I so happy for the girls.  Now, if they could do away with Math 

*We know that there are many questions and concerns you all have. The Governor’s announcement today included some initial guidance related to the impact on students, including an agreement from California universities to waive SAT scores as criteria for admission and to accept pass/fail grades for A-G courses and ensuring that high school seniors on track to graduate will be able to do so. *


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## eastbaysoccer

Ellejustus said:


> Hallelujah, No Sat Scores for 2021!!!  So lucky my dd just said.  I so happy for the girls.  Now, if they could do away with Math
> 
> *We know that there are many questions and concerns you all have. The Governor’s announcement today included some initial guidance related to the impact on students, including an agreement from California universities to waive SAT scores as criteria for admission and to accept pass/fail grades for A-G courses and ensuring that high school seniors on track to graduate will be able to do so. *


Juniors are lucky in that sense but I wonder after the carnage COVID19 is over if many of these kids end up going to JC to save money.


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## eastbaysoccer

UC will still be tough as average GPAs for accepted students is higher then 4.0 at most UC's.  Still damn tough to get in.


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## Dubs

Ellejustus said:


> Hallelujah, No Sat Scores for 2021!!!  So lucky my dd just said.  I so happy for the girls.  Now, if they could do away with Math
> 
> *We know that there are many questions and concerns you all have. The Governor’s announcement today included some initial guidance related to the impact on students, including an agreement from California universities to waive SAT scores as criteria for admission and to accept pass/fail grades for A-G courses and ensuring that high school seniors on track to graduate will be able to do so. *


Wait, current Juniors won't need to take the SAT/ACT?  They're going purely by GPA?  They still have another year of HS!


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## LASTMAN14

Dubs said:


> Wait, current Juniors won't need to take the SAT/ACT?  They're going purely by GPA?  They still have another year of HS!


Many juniors have taken their exams. Many have not and I would think be given opportunities to make up those missed dates or given extensions in their senior year (that's if schools return to normal in the fall). Districts are tackling the grades decision at this time. Some may give grades based on the scores prior to school closures and others are weighing in on pass/fail. Therefore, I do not think universities will just go on GPA's alone.  If they do, I'd look back at freshman and sophomore year grades.


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## Ellejustus

How about this idea I just got.  For the top, top girls soccer players who are poor and not that smart at taking tests, no SAT score needed or math for admittance to big time school for soccer?  Just go by the GPA, extra activities, leadership like ASB and helping the elderly with free deliveries during the Corona virus.


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## outside!

Ellejustus said:


> How about this idea I just got.  For the top, top girls soccer players who are poor and not that smart at taking tests, no SAT score needed or math for admittance to big time school for soccer?  Just go by the GPA, extra activities, leadership like ASB and helping the elderly with free deliveries during the Corona virus.


There are plenty of schools that do not require top SAT or ACT scores for admittance. The NCAA guidelines look at a combination of HS GPA and SAT or ACT scores. If the GPA is good, the SAT or ACT scores can be lower.


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## Ellejustus

outside! said:


> There are plenty of schools that do not require top SAT or ACT scores for admittance. The NCAA guidelines look at a combination of HS GPA and SAT or ACT scores. If the GPA is good, the SAT or ACT scores can be lower.


Unicorn U?


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## outside!

Ellejustus said:


> Unicorn U?


Do some research.


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## Ellejustus

outside! said:


> There are plenty of schools that do not require top SAT or ACT scores for admittance. The NCAA guidelines look at a combination of HS GPA and SAT or ACT scores. If the GPA is good, the SAT or ACT scores can be lower.


I think it sucks to ask the top top goats to be top top soccer player, top top SAT, top top GPA and stay out of trouble because jealous parents are looking for top top goat to fall and then share gossip with others.  That is BS dude.  Every top top goat has to be perfect in this fake America after they turn 14 to go to top top school, where folks pay up to $500,000 to guys like Singer, just to get into Ivy.  Once they get to Ivy, their is a slight chance a predator is there waiting to manipulate your dd for play time.  That is my big issue.  All to continue playing soccer at the soccer pyramid where pay to play is the norm and Norm might be there to abuse your dd.  Big problem Outside.


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## Ellejustus

outside! said:


> Do some research.


I have done more research than you know.  I understand Hawaii, SDSU and CSUF have easier admission standards.  Were looking at bigger opportunities....lol, jk.  I get what your saying and I agree 100%.  My dd has big dreams bro


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## outside!

Ellejustus said:


> I have done more research than you know.  I understand Hawaii, SDSU and CSUF have easier admission standards.  Were looking at bigger opportunities....lol, jk.  I get what your saying and I agree 100%.  My dd has big dreams bro


There are many paths to a big dream. The school on a bachelor's degree only matters a lot when trying to find that first job out of college. After that it is more about abilities. I have seen people with BS degrees from big schools that couldn't function in the real world.


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## dk_b

outside! said:


> There are many paths to a big dream. The school on a bachelor's degree only matters a lot when trying to find that first job out of college. After that it is more about abilities. I have seen people with BS degrees from big schools that couldn't function in the real world.


I agree with that statement.

BTW: a quick check of your other point (which I have known but wanted to refresh re which schools) shows some pretty great schools that do not require SAT/ACT: Pitzer, NYU, Hampshire, Lewis & Clark, UT (Austin, so probably all in the UT system, I'd imagine, since Austin is the flagship school), Cornell College (not the Ivy school), Arizona State, American, Montana State, George Washington U. A decent array of big school/small school, public/private. Not sure what the sports environment is across the board but these also include some D1 and D3. I think we will see more schools do away with standardized testing (or at least rely much less)


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## Ellejustus

outside! said:


> There are many paths to a big dream. The school on a bachelor's degree only matters a lot when trying to find that first job out of college. After that it is more about abilities. I have seen people with BS degrees from big schools that couldn't function in the real world.


She wants to win a College Cup and have fun in college.  Some degrees are BS and you know it.  A big scam for most.  Many girls only go because their parents tell them to.  That's the truth.


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## Emma

Ellejustus said:


> She wants to win a College Cup and have fun in college.  Some degrees are BS and you know it.  A big scam for most.  Many girls only go because their parents tell them to.  That's the truth.


That's right.  Only your daughter makes decisions for herself and only you help your daughter make good decisions.  Others go with the scam.  Although from all your complaints, your history proves the opposite.  But what do I know?  My children will end up have BS degrees and can't think for themselves.


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## Sandypk

LASTMAN14 said:


> Many juniors have taken their exams. Many have not and I would think be given opportunities to make up those missed dates or given extensions in their senior year (that's if schools return to normal in the fall). Districts are tackling the grades decision at this time. Some may give grades based on the scores prior to school closures and others are weighing in on pass/fail. Therefore, I do not think universities will just go on GPA's alone.  If they do, I'd look back at freshman and sophomore year grades.


First semester of junior year will be counted in their GPAs as well.  Second semester may be pass/fail.
Many juniors who want to play sports in college (that we know) already took the SAT at least 1x.  Hopefully there will be another in August, September and/or October.  Plenty of time.  And if they end up waiving SATs for 2021 graduates, great.


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## Ellejustus

Emma said:


> That's right.  Only your daughter makes decisions for herself and only you help your daughter make good decisions.  Others go with the scam.  Although from all your complaints, your history proves the opposite.  But what do I know?  My children will end up have BS degrees and can't think for themselves.


You misunderstood what I was trying to say Emma.  My dd has her own goals. I hope what I say isn;t what she is guilty of.  These are my opinions on some of college being a scam.  Not all college.  I think the top players should get a free ride just like the basketball players and football players.  I know my kid and she will want a chance to win a college cup because she wrote it down.  Is that wrong to share with the parents on some forum?  Trust me, she has no idea what I'm up to.


----------



## Ellejustus

Sandypk said:


> First semester of junior year will be counted in their GPAs as well.  Second semester may be pass/fail.
> Many juniors who want to play sports in college (that we know) already took the SAT at least 1x.  Hopefully there will be another in August, September and/or October.  Plenty of time.  And if they end up waiving SATs for 2021 graduates, great.


Yay, no more SAT!!!!  I'm fighting the Deans to drop Math altogether too for 90% of females and replace it with how to deal with the real world.  Math is depressing.  Look at how we make math work with our debt.


----------



## Ellejustus

Emma said:


> That's right.  Only your daughter makes decisions for herself and only you help your daughter make good decisions.  Others go with the scam.  Although from all your complaints, your history proves the opposite.  But what do I know?  My children will end up have BS degrees and can't think for themselves.


Why do kids go to college Emma?  My son is going to SDSU for a business degree so he can he can be a big businessman.  He comes home because of Corona Bug and at first wanted to sit around and play video games and do online college and then sleep and eat for free.  I was cool with some of that but also told him it was time to take what you learned about biz and go work and help out.  He came to me for ideas.  Sense I'm just the ideas guy, I gave him one.  He ran with it.  Made $200 today in 5 hours.  I gave him a great "Tip" idea and it's working like a charm for the kid.  I gave him another idea and it's starting to grow like crazy grow.  Cars are cheap now too so my son is bringing on a friend.  If this goes as planned, we will look to get a few more cars and deliver all the way to the bank.  He told me maybe he can manage this biz and go to night biz school.  He wants the college life but that is now up in the air.  Kirk Herbstreet says he would be surprised if we have college football this season.  What does one do in college if they don;t have sports and parties?  My son just got hired on with the Aztec football team too.  I hope we can all get outside soon


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> How about this idea I just got.  For the top, top girls soccer players who are poor and not that smart at taking tests, no SAT score needed or math for admittance to big time school for soccer?  Just go by the GPA, extra activities, leadership like ASB and helping the elderly with free deliveries during the Corona virus.


Helping the elderly with deliveries?  Dear God...


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I think it sucks to ask the top top goats to be top top soccer player, top top SAT, top top GPA and stay out of trouble because jealous parents are looking for top top goat to fall and then share gossip with others.  That is BS dude.  Every top top goat has to be perfect in this fake America after they turn 14 to go to top top school, where folks pay up to $500,000 to guys like Singer, just to get into Ivy.  Once they get to Ivy, their is a slight chance a predator is there waiting to manipulate your dd for play time.  That is my big issue.  All to continue playing soccer at the soccer pyramid where pay to play is the norm and Norm might be there to abuse your dd.  Big problem Outside.


What the Hell are you talking about?  This is for college.  Higher education.  It's a privilege.  Send your kid to Long Beach State or Dominguez if it's that big of a deal.  If your kid isn't bright enough to do well academically, what the fuck are you bringing up the Ivy League for?  That's the ONLY reason they go to an Ivy.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Yay, no more SAT!!!!  I'm fighting the Deans to drop Math altogether too for 90% of females and replace it with how to deal with the real world.  Math is depressing.  Look at how we make math work with our debt.


Why don't you tell the deans to just give your poor daughter a pass on everything since she's been a victim since the age of 12?  Maybe just ask for a waiver... no grades, no testing, no nothing.  I mean, it's college... not... um... yeah.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Why do kids go to college Emma?  My son is going to SDSU for a business degree so he can he can be a big businessman.  He comes home because of Corona Bug and at first wanted to sit around and play video games and do online college and then sleep and eat for free.  I was cool with some of that but also told him it was time to take what you learned about biz and go work and help out.  He came to me for ideas.  Sense I'm just the ideas guy, I gave him one.  He ran with it.  Made $200 today in 5 hours.  I gave him a great "Tip" idea and it's working like a charm for the kid.  I gave him another idea and it's starting to grow like crazy grow.  Cars are cheap now too so my son is bringing on a friend.  If this goes as planned, we will look to get a few more cars and deliver all the way to the bank.  He told me maybe he can manage this biz and go to night biz school.  He wants the college life but that is now up in the air.  Kirk Herbstreet says he would be surprised if we have college football this season.  What does one do in college if they don;t have sports and parties?  My son just got hired on with the Aztec football team too.  I hope we can all get outside soon


Send your 12 year old to SDSU... sounds right up your family's ally.  Maybe get some of those cool, feathered spear stickers to put under your eyes on game day.  Black and Red!  Let the real college students go to a real college.


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## Sandypk

outside! said:


> There are plenty of schools that do not require top SAT or ACT scores for admittance. The NCAA guidelines look at a combination of HS GPA and SAT or ACT scores. If the GPA is good, the SAT or ACT scores can be lower.


I agree with you completely.   However, the GPA better be above average to have a lower score on the SAT/ACT.  If they have both high GPA and SAT scores, you can pretty much get into a great school with some academic scholarship $$ especially if you are a top soccer player and maybe even get a little athletic scholarship as well.  If they don’t have either, they can still play soccer but most likely not at a high academic or even top D1 school.  Even some GOATs didn’t meet the requirements for UCLA, Stanford, Duke, or Virginia and had to go to another school.

So, if anyone (not you Outside!) thinks soccer alone can get their dd into their dream school without the grades, then they will be in for a rude awakening.  Verbal promises might be made, but there are ways schools get out of verbal commits.  Parents expecting colleges to make significant exceptions (no SATs, low GPAs, etc), especially now; for their special dd are delusional and in complete denial.  There will only be more ranting, blaming, and screaming foul play by certain parents claiming their dd has been wronged, again. 

If no SATs, then your dd better have an outstanding GPA.  If not, you can kiss big time D1 and D3/schools goodbye.
Maybe D2, vocational school, or community college and there’s nothing wrong with that either. 

Don’t say you weren’t warned and go bitchin’ to everyone when your kid doesn’t go to college to get an education and becomes a rec player while working two jobs, barefoot and pregnant.  Nothing wrong with that though...if that’s your dds choice.  Anyway, I think most of us want more for our dd’s than that, but it is their dd’s choice as to whether or not they want to work for it or not.  And don’t forget most, not all, WNT players went to college. 

Of course there are also the 0.0000001% who get a Nike deal and don’t go to college, but that is the rarest of players.
If you are planning on this road for your dd, you better step up your game and stop complaining or asking for special accommodations/treatment if your dd doesn’t want to work for it.  

Just some of my thoughts on the 2021 dilemma.


----------



## Ellejustus

Sandypk said:


> I agree with you completely.   However, the GPA better be above average to have a lower score on the SAT/ACT.  If they have both high GPA and SAT scores, you can pretty much get into a great school with some academic scholarship $$ especially if you are a top soccer player and maybe even get a little athletic scholarship as well.  If they don’t have either, they can still play soccer but most likely not at a high academic or even top D1 school.  Even some GOATs didn’t meet the requirements for UCLA, Stanford, Duke, or Virginia and had to go to another school.
> 
> So, if anyone (not you Outside!) thinks soccer alone can get their dd into their dream school without the grades, then they will be in for a rude awakening.  Verbal promises might be made, but there are ways schools get out of verbal commits.  Parents expecting colleges to make significant exceptions (no SATs, low GPAs, etc), especially now; for their special dd are delusional and in complete denial.  There will only be more ranting, blaming, and screaming foul play by certain parents claiming their dd has been wronged, again.
> 
> If no SATs, then your dd better have an outstanding GPA.  If not, you can kiss big time D1 and D3/schools goodbye.
> Maybe D2, vocational school, or community college and there’s nothing wrong with that either.
> 
> Don’t say you weren’t warned and go bitchin’ to everyone when your kid doesn’t go to college to get an education and becomes a rec player while working two jobs, barefoot and pregnant.  Nothing wrong with that though...if that’s your dds choice.  Anyway, I think most of us want more for our dd’s than that, but it is their dd’s choice as to whether or not they want to work for it or not.  And don’t forget most, not all, WNT players went to college.
> 
> Of course there are also the 0.0000001% who get a Nike deal and don’t go to college, but that is the rarest of players.
> If you are planning on this road for your dd, you better step up your game and stop complaining or asking for special accommodations/treatment if your dd doesn’t want to work for it.
> 
> Just some of my thoughts on the 2021 dilemma.


----------



## Ellejustus

Just for you @Sandypk.  Advice from Sandy........Just wait until I break your advice down word by word.  Barf bag please....lol


----------



## Ellejustus

Oh Sandy..............


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Oh Sandy..............


Oh Spicoli ......


----------



## Ellejustus

Let's play, Sandy Says...............

Sandy Says: I agree with you completely. However, the GPA better be above average to have a lower score on the SAT/ACT. If they have both high GPA and SAT scores, you can pretty much get into a great school with some academic scholarship $$ especially if you are a top soccer player and maybe even get a little athletic scholarship as well. *((Thanks for the information Sandy))*

Sandy Says: If they don’t have either, they can still play soccer but most likely not at a high academic or even top D1 school. Even some GOATs didn’t meet the requirements for UCLA, Stanford, Duke, or Virginia and had to go to another school. *((Yes, I figured that out back in July from @MakeAPlay or the great Maps))*

Sandy also Says: So, if anyone (not you Outside!) thinks soccer alone can get their dd into their dream school without the grades, then they will be in for a rude awakening. *((100% correct.  That's why I sat my goat down and shared with her what the truth is and what Map had to say back in July. The only human in soccer to tell me the truth.  My dd has a 4.0 today except for that stupid math subject)) *

Sandy Says: Verbal promises might be made, but there are ways schools get out of verbal commits. Parents expecting colleges to make significant exceptions (no SATs, low GPAs, etc), especially now; for their special dd are delusional and in complete denial. *((True dat brah.  I smoked that out quickly when her coach was telling her to email and "sign" early to lock in the deal.  All for 8th grader. 80% quit or don;t finish))*

Sandy Says: There will only be more ranting, blaming, and screaming foul play by certain parents claiming their dd has been wronged, again. *((Not from this dad))*

Sandy Says This too: If no SATs, then your dd better have an outstanding GPA. *((Ore she can skip all this BS and scam for most and got straight to the Pros))*


f not, (Sandy Says) you can kiss big time D1 and D3/schools goodbye.  *((That is true))*

Sandy Says: Maybe D2, vocational school, or community college and there’s nothing wrong with that either. *((Nothing at all wrong with that.  My buddy played JC ball at OCC and was the #1 pick in Da June Draft by the Cubs))*

Sandy Says: Don’t say you weren’t warned and go bitchin’ to everyone when your kid doesn’t go to college to get an education and becomes a rec player while working two jobs, barefoot and pregnant. *((Those same asshole like you told me the same thing when I was 18.  Horrible advice. Another person saying if you don;t get in debt for college you will actually have to work.  Oh Sansdy, please......))*

More from Sandy: Nothing wrong with that though...if that’s your dds choice. *((My dd will never have to work like that you fool))*
Sandy..........: Anyway, I think most of us want more for our dd’s than that, but it is their dd’s choice as to whether or not they want to work for it or not. And don’t forget most, not all, WNT players went to college. *((You sir our the problem with soccer in the USA))*

Sandy Says: Of course there are also the 0.0000001% who get a Nike deal and don’t go to college, but that is the rarest of players.* ((Only the true pro OM))*
Sandy: If you are planning on this road for your dd, you better step up your game and stop complaining or asking for special accommodations/treatment if your dd doesn’t want to work for it. *((Thank God I have plenty of resources to help my goat in case it all falls a part and she has to find work and work two jobs and go to JC at night so she can be successful.  What an asshole!!! College like you NO it is over for good.  You can go visit Mr Singer in jail and find out how the hell he got people like you to spend $500,000 just to get into the school.  Cheats with money I can;t stand!!!))*

Sandy concludes: Just some of my thoughts on the 2021 dilemma. *((Thanks for the toughts and now you have mind from my mine.  There're you go. Go ahead and have Lester grade my paper and fail fro my grammar and wrong use of words that sound the same but our spelled wrong))*  Next!!!


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Let's play, Sandy Says...............
> 
> Sandy Says: I agree with you completely. However, the GPA better be above average to have a lower score on the SAT/ACT. If they have both high GPA and SAT scores, you can pretty much get into a great school with some academic scholarship $$ especially if you are a top soccer player and maybe even get a little athletic scholarship as well. *((Thanks for the information Sandy))*
> 
> Sandy Says: If they don’t have either, they can still play soccer but most likely not at a high academic or even top D1 school. Even some GOATs didn’t meet the requirements for UCLA, Stanford, Duke, or Virginia and had to go to another school. *((Yes, I figured that out back in July from @MakeAPlay or the great Maps))*
> 
> Sandy also Says: So, if anyone (not you Outside!) thinks soccer alone can get their dd into their dream school without the grades, then they will be in for a rude awakening. *((100% correct.  That's why I sat my goat down and shared with her what the truth is and what Map had to say back in July. The only human in soccer to tell me the truth.  My dd has a 4.0 today except for that stupid math subject)) *
> 
> Sandy Says: Verbal promises might be made, but there are ways schools get out of verbal commits. Parents expecting colleges to make significant exceptions (no SATs, low GPAs, etc), especially now; for their special dd are delusional and in complete denial. *((True dat brah.  I smoked that out quickly when her coach was telling her to email and "sign" early to lock in the deal.  All for 8th grader. 80% quit or don;t finish))*
> 
> Sandy Says: There will only be more ranting, blaming, and screaming foul play by certain parents claiming their dd has been wronged, again. *((Not from this dad))*
> 
> Sandy Says This too: If no SATs, then your dd better have an outstanding GPA. *((Ore she can skip all this BS and scam for most and got straight to the Pros))*
> 
> 
> f not, (Sandy Says) you can kiss big time D1 and D3/schools goodbye.  *((That is true))*
> 
> Sandy Says: Maybe D2, vocational school, or community college and there’s nothing wrong with that either. *((Nothing at all wrong with that.  My buddy played JC ball at OCC and was the #1 pick in Da June Draft by the Cubs))*
> 
> Sandy Says: Don’t say you weren’t warned and go bitchin’ to everyone when your kid doesn’t go to college to get an education and becomes a rec player while working two jobs, barefoot and pregnant. *((Those same asshole like you told me the same thing when I was 18.  Horrible advice. Another person saying if you don;t get in debt for college you will actually have to work.  Oh Sansdy, please......))*
> 
> More from Sandy: Nothing wrong with that though...if that’s your dds choice. *((My dd will never have to work like that you fool))*
> Sandy..........: Anyway, I think most of us want more for our dd’s than that, but it is their dd’s choice as to whether or not they want to work for it or not. And don’t forget most, not all, WNT players went to college. *((You sir our the problem with soccer in the USA))*
> 
> Sandy Says: Of course there are also the 0.0000001% who get a Nike deal and don’t go to college, but that is the rarest of players.* ((Only the true pro OM))*
> Sandy: If you are planning on this road for your dd, you better step up your game and stop complaining or asking for special accommodations/treatment if your dd doesn’t want to work for it. *((Thank God I have plenty of resources to help my goat in case it all falls a part and she has to find work and work two jobs and go to JC at night so she can be successful.  What an asshole!!! College like you NO it is over for good.  You can go visit Mr Singer in jail and find out how the hell he got people like you to spend $500,000 just to get into the school.  Cheats with money I can;t stand!!!))*
> 
> Sandy concludes: Just some of my thoughts on the 2021 dilemma. *((Thanks for the toughts and now you have mind from my mine.  There're you go. Go ahead and have Lester grade my paper and fail fro my grammar and wrong use of words that sound the same but our spelled wrong))*  Next!!!


I don't have time to grade it.  I have a job.  I don't even know how you have time to type it or be here all day; everyday.  Especially when it's the same nonsense over and over again.  My daughter... blah blah blah.  Evil clubs... blah blah blah.  My daughter's dream killer: math... blah blah blah.


----------



## dad4

Why all the fuss over top schools?   You don't want your kid to have the lowest SAT at her school.  She will get bounced out of the STEM classes in no time and get stuck with an English degree and 40K in debt.  

Your kid has 1050 SAT?  (Or whatever it is.)  Fine.  UCLA and Stanford don't know how to help, but other schools do.  Respect their expertise and find a school which already knows how to help your kind of kid.


----------



## 3thatplay

Ellejustus said:


> Let's play, Sandy Says...............
> *wah-wa-wah-wa-wa*


Is the onset of delirium a SARS-CoV-2 precursor symptom??   @Ellejustus do you also have a fever?

Either way I hope your DD is perceived to be a GOAT by any D1 so that she can continue her journey toward her dreams.


----------



## Ellejustus

3thatplay said:


> Is the onset of delirium a SARS-CoV-2 precursor symptom??   @Ellejustus do you also have a fever?
> 
> Either way I hope your DD is perceived to be a GOAT by any D1 so that she can continue her journey toward her dreams.


My dd has a friend going there.  I will be rooting them on all the way and so shall my dd.  Beautiful campus and all about college up there.  I think CO will be a force to wreaken with in the coming years


----------



## azsnowrider

dk_b said:


> I agree with that statement.
> 
> BTW: a quick check of your other point (which I have known but wanted to refresh re which schools) shows some pretty great schools that do not require SAT/ACT: Pitzer, NYU, Hampshire, Lewis & Clark, UT (Austin, so probably all in the UT system, I'd imagine, since Austin is the flagship school), Cornell College (not the Ivy school), Arizona State, American, Montana State, George Washington U. A decent array of big school/small school, public/private. Not sure what the sports environment is across the board but these also include some D1 and D3. I think we will see more schools do away with standardized testing (or at least rely much less)


There are actually 3 ways to get into the AZ schools, and most of the others you mention. You can use either your GPA/SAT,ACT/ or top 25. You don't have to use any combination you can use the best one and you get to take your pick if which. Great GPA lousy ACT/SAT use the GPA, or the other way around. What we found was the ACT/SAT was only useful for academic money and nothing else.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> I don't have time to grade it.  I have a job.  I don't even know how you have time to type it or be here all day; everyday.  Especially when it's the same nonsense over and over again.  My daughter... blah blah blah.  Evil clubs... blah blah blah.  My daughter's dream killer: math... blah blah blah.


I'm glad you have ajob Lester.  I hear 6.6 million lost their job the last two weeks.  I work from home and my job is easy as making apple pie


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I'm glad you have ajob Lester.  I hear 6.6 million lost their job the last two weeks.  I work from home and my job is easy as making apple pie


Maybe if you were making different pies you could stop complaining about others needing to pay your soccer dues and college tuition?


----------



## Ellejustus

dad4 said:


> Why all the fuss over top schools?   You don't want your kid to have the lowest SAT at her school.  She will get bounced out of the STEM classes in no time and get stuck with an English degree and 40K in debt.
> 
> Your kid has 1050 SAT?  (Or whatever it is.)  Fine.  UCLA and Stanford don't know how to help, but other schools do.  Respect their expertise and find a school which already knows how to help your kind of kid.


I know my dd was top top in 7th and 8th grade.  If it was only about soccer she would be still top player.  However, they pulled the switch on me and I was the wrong cat to play that game because I don;t college is athat important to be successful, especially for girls.  I'm not sying don;t go, but when you tie her grades now to her soccer abilities, we haves a problem and that is why I'm still here and never, ever ever leaving now.  I knew all this and now it's all coming out.  Keep speaking college folks.  It's ok, I get it.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Maybe if you had a harder job you could afford soccer dues and stop whining about who else should pay your daughter's college tuition?


I was so poor in 2016 and 2017.  One time I only had a $100 in my bank account, no joke.  Like I said, some assholes took some of my ideas and ran with them without properly taking care of me.  Of course I sought my revenge.  Today, I sit in the drivers seat.  Today, money is not important.  Today, everyone, you, me and Kicker are all equal, even though Kicker says his life is better than mine, even under house arrest.  He probably has a nice house down in the South Bay.  I have a place in laguna.  All equal.  I think we all equal, especially today.  Only today and tomorrow and the nest day.  After were all out of prison, money will have shifted to others and those who had more before Corona will have less and those who had less will have more. It's going down............


----------



## azsnowrider

Ellejustus said:


> I know my dd was top top in 7th and 8th grade.  If it was only about soccer she would be still top player.  However, they pulled the switch on me and I was the wrong cat to play that game because I don;t college is athat important to be successful, especially for girls.  I'm not sying don;t go, but when you tie her grades now to her soccer abilities, we haves a problem and that is why I'm still here and never, ever ever leaving now.  I knew all this and now it's all coming out.  Keep speaking college folks.  It's ok, I get it.


Speaking directly to college. Her grades and ability are tied together, for playing in college you can't have one without the other, You cant get into college unless you meet the requirements academically. If she wants to play in a college cup, well you have to get into college first.


----------



## Ellejustus

azsnowrider said:


> Speaking directly to college. Her grades and ability are tied together, for playing in college you can't have one without the other, You cant get into college unless you meet the requirements academically. If she wants to play in a college cup, well you have to get into college first.


Yes, thank you for helping me understand that.  If I had my choose, I would choice the pros.  However, no money right now.  The men have been keeping to themselves.  My dd loves school.  I hate school.  Too different people living their life.  I had assholes trying to force a deal because of some dead line and money being gone, or something like that.  I came here with some questions and Map helped me out.  I went back to my dd to tell what this has really only been about.  I told her I got played and so did she and I'm sorry for not seeing the lies earlier.  "If you want to win a college cup, it's not about soccer only like it is for all the hoopsters and football players.  No honey, you cant have fun like they do.  You have to be perfect.  Enemies are watching and they want you to fail.  So you can;t go out and party and say stupid stuff on social media.  You have to get a 4.0 and score high on SAT scores and try and be perfect.  Don;t listen to rap music either and stay away from boys.  In fact, stay home!!!  Plus you have to be a really top top player I said.  Or, you can go try and build a D1 program and try and win your Sr year liker SM just did as a Sophmore.  All things are possible.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> I was so poor in 2016 and 2017.  One time I only had a $100 in my bank account, no joke.  Like I said, some assholes took some of my ideas and ran with them without properly taking care of me.  Of course I sought my revenge.  Today, I sit in the drivers seat.  Today, money is not important.  Today, everyone, you, me and Kicker are all equal, even though Kicker says his life is better than mine, even under house arrest.  He probably has a nice house down in the South Bay.  I have a place in laguna.  All equal.  I think we all equal, especially today.  Only today and tomorrow and the nest day.  After were all out of prison, money will have shifted to others and those who had more before Corona will have less and those who had less will have more. It's going down............


Those mushrooms growing on your front lawn... you aren't supposed to eat those, Spicoli.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Those mushrooms growing on your front lawn... you aren't supposed to eat those, Spicoli.


No drugs bro.  Just didn;t protect my assets properly.  100% my fault and I will never do that again.  Thank God my family didnlt make fun of me and call me a loser.  They stood by me and I worked my ass off to get my assets back and make sure I save my all my money better.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Yes, thank you for helping me understand that.  If I had my choose, I would choice the pros.  However, no money right now.  The men have been keeping to themselves.  My dd loves school.  I hate school.  Too different people living their life.  I had assholes trying to force a deal because of some dead line and money being gone, or something like that.  I came here with some questions and Map helped me out.  I went back to my dd to tell what this has really only been about.  I told her I got played and so did she and I'm sorry for not seeing the lies earlier.  "If you want to win a college cup, it's not about soccer only like it is for all the hoopsters and football players.  No honey, you cant have fun like they do.  You have to be perfect.  Enemies are watching and they want you to fail.  So you can;t go out and party and say stupid stuff on social media.  You have to get a 4.0 and score high on SAT scores and try and be perfect.  Don;t listen to rap music either and stay away from boys.  In fact, stay home!!!  Plus you have to be a really top top player I said.  Or, you can go try and build a D1 program and try and win your Sr year liker SM just did as a Sophmore.  All things are possible.


Hey, head injury, do you hear the voices too?


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Hey, head injury, do you hear the voices too?


Yes, from Jah.  He tells me to love you and try and help you


----------



## outside!

Ellejustus said:


> Some degrees are BS and you know it.


Yes I do know that some degrees are Bachelor of Science degrees.


----------



## Ellejustus

outside! said:


> Yes I do know that some degrees are Bachelor of Science degrees.


See, you get my since of humor.  Finally!!!


----------



## LASTMAN14

Sandypk said:


> I agree with you completely.   However, the GPA better be above average to have a lower score on the SAT/ACT.  If they have both high GPA and SAT scores, you can pretty much get into a great school with some academic scholarship $$ especially if you are a top soccer player and maybe even get a little athletic scholarship as well.  If they don’t have either, they can still play soccer but most likely not at a high academic or even top D1 school.  Even some GOATs didn’t meet the requirements for UCLA, Stanford, Duke, or Virginia and had to go to another school.
> 
> So, if anyone (not you Outside!) thinks soccer alone can get their dd into their dream school without the grades, then they will be in for a rude awakening.  Verbal promises might be made, but there are ways schools get out of verbal commits.  Parents expecting colleges to make significant exceptions (no SATs, low GPAs, etc), especially now; for their special dd are delusional and in complete denial.  There will only be more ranting, blaming, and screaming foul play by certain parents claiming their dd has been wronged, again.
> 
> If no SATs, then your dd better have an outstanding GPA.  If not, you can kiss big time D1 and D3/schools goodbye.
> Maybe D2, vocational school, or community college and there’s nothing wrong with that either.
> 
> Don’t say you weren’t warned and go bitchin’ to everyone when your kid doesn’t go to college to get an education and becomes a rec player while working two jobs, barefoot and pregnant.  Nothing wrong with that though...if that’s your dds choice.  Anyway, I think most of us want more for our dd’s than that, but it is their dd’s choice as to whether or not they want to work for it or not.  And don’t forget most, not all, WNT players went to college.
> 
> Of course there are also the 0.0000001% who get a Nike deal and don’t go to college, but that is the rarest of players.
> If you are planning on this road for your dd, you better step up your game and stop complaining or asking for special accommodations/treatment if your dd doesn’t want to work for it.
> 
> Just some of my thoughts on the 2021 dilemma.


Ouch.


----------



## Sandypk

LASTMAN14 said:


> Ouch.


Truth hurts


----------



## LASTMAN14

Sandypk said:


> Truth hurts


You provided a good explanation of the requirements needed to achieve specific academic/athletic goals. If anyone thinks otherwise they are well...


----------



## Ellejustus

LASTMAN14 said:


> You provided a good explanation of the requirements needed to achieve specific academic/athletic goals. If anyone thinks otherwise they are well...


Thanks for lying to everyone about what the true meaning of this G D A League your so proud of. It was always and will always be about college and I have the proof. Liars liars!!!  I just found the cause of one of the virus's attacking our country. It;'s not called Corona either.  All of you are sick and need help, like soon or you will be left behind.


----------



## Ellejustus

Sandypk said:


> Truth hurts


Sicko!!!!


----------



## Ellejustus

LASTMAN14 said:


> You provided a good explanation of the requirements needed to achieve specific academic/athletic goals. If anyone thinks otherwise they are well...


He provided the truth of what is behind the curtain and you are happy?  Your league was and is lie dude.  You see that now right?  You & Kicker lying to all of us.  This was coup and you almost pulled it off.  You should have told your Docs to tell the other Docs to allow HS Soccer and the whole freaking pie would be all yours.  How much you and Kicker going to lose if you can;t buy the Blues?


----------



## Ellejustus

Sandypk said:


> Truth hurts


Truth is awesome.  It hurt when Map told me the truth but I rebounded.  Told my dd the truth and now she can work through all the lies from the MEN!!!!


----------



## gotothebushes

Sandypk said:


> I agree with you completely.   However, the GPA better be above average to have a lower score on the SAT/ACT.  If they have both high GPA and SAT scores, you can pretty much get into a great school with some academic scholarship $$ especially if you are a top soccer player and maybe even get a little athletic scholarship as well.  If they don’t have either, they can still play soccer but most likely not at a high academic or even top D1 school.  Even some GOATs didn’t meet the requirements for UCLA, Stanford, Duke, or Virginia and had to go to another school.
> 
> So, if anyone (not you Outside!) thinks soccer alone can get their dd into their dream school without the grades, then they will be in for a rude awakening.  Verbal promises might be made, but there are ways schools get out of verbal commits.  Parents expecting colleges to make significant exceptions (no SATs, low GPAs, etc), especially now; for their special dd are delusional and in complete denial.  There will only be more ranting, blaming, and screaming foul play by certain parents claiming their dd has been wronged, again.
> 
> If no SATs, then your dd better have an outstanding GPA.  If not, you can kiss big time D1 and D3/schools goodbye.
> Maybe D2, vocational school, or community college and there’s nothing wrong with that either.
> 
> Don’t say you weren’t warned and go bitchin’ to everyone when your kid doesn’t go to college to get an education and becomes a rec player while working two jobs, barefoot and pregnant.  Nothing wrong with that though...if that’s your dds choice.  Anyway, I think most of us want more for our dd’s than that, but it is their dd’s choice as to whether or not they want to work for it or not.  And don’t forget most, not all, WNT players went to college.
> 
> Of course there are also the 0.0000001% who get a Nike deal and don’t go to college, but that is the rarest of players.
> If you are planning on this road for your dd, you better step up your game and stop complaining or asking for special accommodations/treatment if your dd doesn’t want to work for it.
> 
> Just some of my thoughts on the 2021 dilemma.


@Sandppk- Thanks for sharing. This is really good stuff. Glad to have people on here with lots of information and willing to share.


----------



## Sandypk

LASTMAN14 said:


> You provided a good explanation of the requirements needed to achieve specific academic/athletic goals. If anyone thinks otherwise they are well...


...well what?  arrogant, self-centered and delusional.  Arrogant for sure if someone is thinking I am speaking to him directly.  Funny thing is they (multiple personalities) think I am a white rich non immigrant male


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> @Sandppk- Thanks for sharing. This is really good stuff. Glad to have people on here with lots of information and willing to share.


Where was Sandy and Maps when my dd was in 7th grade?  My God, I fell for oldest trick in the book.  "We think your dd can go pro."  What a dumbass I was.  They also said the scouts wanted her.  Damm it, I got so played.  No wonder I lost my sh*t when they threw the college on the table after I realized after the 10th lie I was screwed and that's all that was left for my dd life.  Force her to go to college and be a good girls and be perfect, unlike the boys that play sports in college.  Rules for boys and rules for girls.  OK, I see how all this works.  You little cheaters!!!  I see that I'm the only one who got tricked.  That's why I will never leave and shout it from the corners of my roof how I got screwed by a bunch of rich dads. This is not the end of the line for this dad.  Everyday I will call you guys out for lying and cheating until you say sorry.  I have so much time on my hands.  This is just getting started so don;t leave me now.


----------



## Sandypk

gotothebushes said:


> @Sandppk- Thanks for sharing. This is really good stuff. Glad to have people on here with lots of information and willing to share.


Just keeping it real.  Take care and stay healthy!


----------



## Ellejustus

Sandypk said:


> ...well what?  arrogant, self-centered and delusional.  Arrogant for sure if someone is thinking I am speaking to him directly.  Funny thing is they (multiple personalities) things I am a white rich non immigrant male


Hi Sandy, I love the name.  Thanks for not ignoring me.


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> Truth is awesome.  It hurt when Map told me the truth but I rebounded.  Told my dd the truth and now she can work through all the lies from the MEN!!!!
> [/QUOT
> MAP has always be straight forward from all the posts I've came across.  I'll put MAP and SANDY and the very top because every child's journey's is going to be different. Why not share? I've learned a lot from you as well and you seemed to have learned a thing or two and should be grateful to have found the right path that works for you.


----------



## Ellejustus

So poor kids without education are really screwed if they want to play club soccer.  Case closed.  I'll start writing up all my claims and jump on with the other folks.  Wow, you guys are so exposed.


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> Where was Sandy and Maps when my dd was in 7th grade?  My God, I fell for oldest trick in the book.  "We think your dd can go pro."  What a dumbass I was.  They also said the scouts wanted her.  Damm it, I got so played.  No wonder I lost my sh*t when they threw the college on the table after I realized after the 10th lie I was screwed and that's all that was left for my dd life.  Force her to go to college and be a good girls and be perfect, unlike the boys that play sports in college.  Rules for boys and rules for girls.  OK, I see how all this works.  You little cheaters!!!  I see that I'm the only one who got tricked.  That's why I will never leave and shout it from the corners of my roof how I got screwed by a bunch of rich dads. This is not the end of the line for this dad.  Everyday I will call you guys out for lying and cheating until you say sorry.  I have so much time on my hands.  This is just getting started so don;t leave me now.


 You got played! ok! You should be thankful you removed yourself and now your dd is happy! Better you found out 4 yrs ago then to find out now.


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> You got played! ok! You should be thankful you removed yourself and now your dd is happy! Better you found out 4 yrs ago then to find out now.


It runs so much deeper dude.  I know who I'm talking to and you don;t.  Some think I've been talking to myself.  That's ok. I'm talking to a very select few.  They know who they are and I'm hear to let them know what they did to me and my dd will be atone for.  They know what they are guilty of. Most of you only care about college.  I care about how girls are treated more than staying quite so my dd can go to college and play soccer.  More to life than playing soccer in college.  Such hope you placed all your dd in and I respect that.  What say you about all the girls who killed themselves and are depressed?  80% quit dude.  Let that sink in your brain. Plus some girls were getting gromed for other things.  This is the truth no one talks about.


----------



## Sandypk

So I heard from my good friend a few years back that talked to this other guy who overheard someone say that “if you want to get around a low GPA have your goat attend a homeschooling program because that’s what academic struggling goats do to bypass the academic requirement.”  Sounds like we can all do that now.  No more excuses.


----------



## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> How about this idea I just got.  For the top, top girls soccer players who are poor and not that smart at taking tests, no SAT score needed or math for admittance to big time school for soccer?  Just go by the GPA, extra activities, leadership like ASB and helping the elderly with free deliveries during the Corona virus.


FSU


----------



## Sandypk

MacDre said:


> FSU


You’re right. FSU is a Top D1 soccer school with lower academic standards.  Always a good option.


----------



## MacDre

azsnowrider said:


> There are actually 3 ways to get into the AZ schools, and most of the others you mention. You can use either your GPA/SAT,ACT/ or top 25. You don't have to use any combination you can use the best one and you get to take your pick if which. Great GPA lousy ACT/SAT use the GPA, or the other way around. What we found was the ACT/SAT was only useful for academic money and nothing else.


My best friend J’Juan Cherry is the biggest tool known to mankind and briefly played at ASU before his dumb ass flunked out. There must be a 4th way into Arizona schools for the right athlete if my friend was admitted immediately after Colorado kicked him out for having someone else take his SAT’s.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Where was Sandy and Maps when my dd was in 7th grade?  My God, I fell for oldest trick in the book.  "We think your dd can go pro."  What a dumbass I was.  They also said the scouts wanted her.  Damm it, I got so played.  No wonder I lost my sh*t when they threw the college on the table after I realized after the 10th lie I was screwed and that's all that was left for my dd life.  Force her to go to college and be a good girls and be perfect, unlike the boys that play sports in college.  Rules for boys and rules for girls.  OK, I see how all this works.  You little cheaters!!!  I see that I'm the only one who got tricked.  That's why I will never leave and shout it from the corners of my roof how I got screwed by a bunch of rich dads. This is not the end of the line for this dad.  Everyday I will call you guys out for lying and cheating until you say sorry.  I have so much time on my hands.  This is just getting started so don;t leave me now.


How much longer are you going to bitch about this?  The rest of us want to know when to come back.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

MacDre said:


> My best friend J’Juan Cherry is the biggest tool known to mankind and briefly played at ASU before his dumb ass flunked out. There must be a 4th way into Arizona schools for the right athlete if my friend was admitted immediately after Colorado kicked him out for having someone else take his SAT’s.


His parents named him J'Juan.  Leave the poor bastard alone... I'm sure he's suffered enough.


----------



## Ellejustus

Sandypk said:


> So I heard from my good friend a few years back that talked to this other guy who overheard someone say that “if you want to get around a low GPA have your goat attend a homeschooling program because that’s what academic struggling goats do to bypass the academic requirement.”  Sounds like we can all do that now.  No more excuses.


I like that 100%.  Great take.  I tried to home school my goat to go pro for 6 months.  It was hell for her and she would have been more of a problem at one those all girl ranches. This was right around when I yanked her midway in the season to go back home to Josh, Jenny and the Legends.  That was the only time I made the decision for my goat.  She was pissed deep inside and that was during the time she fired me as manager of her life.  I was stuck because I pulled her out of a bad situation but she really missed her other goat friends.  USSF changed their rules again and switched things up.  She begged me to go back.  What's a dad to do?  I'm serious.  I'm making fun of myself so there you go.  No more SAT either.  Times are changing is all that I was saying before. So what if I hated school and didn;t tell my kids they had to go to college to make it on this planet.  Some of you are worse then the nuns I heard about.  I had to go to Boy Scouts until they kicked me out.  I will not share that horrible thing I did when I was 10.  Look man, I wans;t made for the school system and the school system wasnt; made for me. I know so many people with kids that will owe over $100,000 next year after their grace period expires.  Some in WA DC want to give them a free forgiveness on the loans.  WTF is that Sandy?  I paid all mine off and when I got married I inherited my wife's $20,000 that she had left on her school loans and I paid all those off.  I'm so confused on the value of college when loans are forgiven like that. If they grace that to these kids, I will 100% demand a refund too, with interest.  That is not fair and it D-values what so many of you are champion for.


----------



## LASTMAN14

Sandypk said:


> ...well what?  arrogant, self-centered and delusional.  Arrogant for sure if someone is thinking I am speaking to him directly.  Funny thing is they (multiple personalities) think I am a white rich non immigrant male


When quoting someone please use the correct format. Your not?!


----------



## Ellejustus

Sandypk said:


> You’re right. FSU is a Top D1 soccer school with lower academic standards.  Always a good option.


My dd has only gone to Hawaii and loves it.  Her uncle Mike has lived in Kauai for 30 years.  Nice place to hang.  I went to Florida to see my brother Dave and I kid you not, I was attacked by these freaking mosquitos.  You see, my bro was the only one on the block without a big giant net over the pool.  They loved my blood.  I'm sure I picked up some disease too.  I tried to play golf, but my clubs kept slipping out of my hands because it was humid and hot and all I did was sweat.  Worse than Palm Springs in August.  I saw an alligator next to my ball and decided to drop for a better lie  My bro warned me not to go into the everglades because of the snakes in the grass.  Maybe my goat can hang.  No way I could in that state.  It was very beautiful to my eyes though and the people were really nice and the food is the bomb!!!


----------



## Sandypk

LASTMAN14 said:


> When quoting someone please use the correct format. Your not?!


I will try, but can’t make any promises


----------



## MacDre

Ellejustus said:


> My dd has only gone to Hawaii and loves it.  Her uncle Mike has lived in Kauai for 30 years.  Nice place to hang.  I went to Florida to see my brother Dave and I kid you not, I was attacked by these freaking mosquitos.  You see, my bro was the only one on the block without a big giant net over the pool.  They loved my blood.  I'm sure I picked up some disease too.  I tried to play golf, but my clubs kept slipping out of my hands because it was humid and hot and all I did was sweat.  Worse than Palm Springs in August.  I saw an alligator next to my ball and decided to drop for a better lie  My bro warned me not to go into the everglades because of the snakes in the grass.  Maybe my goat can hang.  No way I could in that state.  It was very beautiful to my eyes though and the people were really nice and the food is the bomb!!!


I hear you.  I’ve spent time in both places and have tons of family in the Bahamas.  Be careful about choosing an island for school.  Islands are great for vacations but after a few months “Island Fever” becomes an issue.  It’s expensive to leave and return to the island and everything is expensive because it has to be imported.  I wouldn’t want to live in Hawaii on any type of limited budget.


----------



## Ellejustus

MacDre said:


> I hear you.  I’ve spent time in both places and have tons of family in the Bahamas.  Be careful about choosing an island for school.  Islands are great for vacations but after a few months “Island Fever” becomes an issue.  It’s expensive to leave and return to the island and everything is expensive because it has to be imported.  I wouldn’t want to live in Hawaii on any type of limited budget.


I could live on Kauia forever.  My dd was going to go to NJ after all.  She talked me into it with a 4.0 almost (B in Trig) and telling me she's open to checking out the East Coast.  My dd played 10 years of club and I only had to have talks with the Doc and coach for three months out of 10 years.  I never say a word to a coach.  I was a coach and I know a lot about coaching. Once coaches get to know my dd and know she is 100% her own thing, they won't worry about a few rants on the forum.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Word of advice, your kid is not likely to go pro.  And if she does there is currently no money in it.   Might even be less after this Covid thing is over.  So that leaves two options.  Let her just have fun and enjoy the few years you have left of club.  Or if she is good enough use the next few years of soccer as leverage to get her into a good college and hopefully get part of it paid.  In order to do the later good grades are needed.   Better grades helps her get into a better school and also helps her get academic money.  You know that D1 schools only have 14 scholarships available and some of them are not fully funded.  Who knows if they will be able to fund to the same levels post Covid.  Right now it is extremely rare to get a full athletic scholarship with roster of 30+.  If she gets half she is doing great.  But if she has good grades she can get academic money that can wrap around and make it a full ride.   Add in the endless perks D1 plays get like Total Cost Money, free food, endless clothing and gear and that could amount to $40,000 plus per year.  That is more money than most pro's make that don't get allocation money.  At the end you daughter will have a great experience and will have a degree that she can leverage for her entire life.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> How much longer are you going to bitch about this?  The rest of us want to know when to come back.


Lester, what time do you go to bed these days?


----------



## Ellejustus

Simisoccerfan said:


> Word of advice, your kid is not likely to go pro.  And if she does there is currently no money in it.   Might even be less after this Covid thing is over.  So that leaves two options.  Let her just have fun and enjoy the few years you have left of club.  Or if she is good enough use the next few years of soccer as leverage to get her into a good college and hopefully get part of it paid.  In order to do the later good grades are needed.   Better grades helps her get into a better school and also helps her get academic money.  You know that D1 schools only have 14 scholarships available and some of them are not fully funded.  Who knows if they will be able to fund to the same levels post Covid.  Right now it is extremely rare to get a full athletic scholarship with roster of 30+.  If she gets half she is doing great.  But if she has good grades she can get academic money that can wrap around and make it a full ride.   Add in the endless perks D1 plays get like Total Cost Money, free food, endless clothing and gear and that could amount to $40,000 plus per year.  That is more money than most pro's make that don't get allocation money.  At the end you daughter will have a great experience and will have a degree that she can leverage for her entire life.


I disagree.  I think because of the Corona, more people will see how much a waste of time college is for some and some should do a trade or some other job.  I know so many people with degrees and debt and no job.  The trade industry is booming and will continue for a very long time.  So many ways to live on this planet without 16 years of school and thousands of dollars in debt.  I will fight for pro and equal money for girls in soccer.  My goat has a .1% chance.  Where are your dreams?  Do you dream or is it all Maped out for you and your kid?  Was this Corona thing a part of the plan?  Time to pivot and I already did two years ago.  I made some very smart moves. My soccer moves were too fast and I got played.


----------



## azsnowrider

MacDre said:


> My best friend J’Juan Cherry is the biggest tool known to mankind and briefly played at ASU before his dumb ass flunked out. There must be a 4th way into Arizona schools for the right athlete if my friend was admitted immediately after Colorado kicked him out for having someone else take his SAT’s.


Seriously? He played at ASU over 20 years ago, oh wait he barely saw the field.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Ellejustus said:


> I disagree.  I think because of the Corona, more people will see how much a waste of time college is for some and some should do a trade or some other job.  I know so many people with degrees and debt and no job.  The trade industry is booming and will continue for a very long time.  So many ways to live on this planet without 16 years of school and thousands of dollars in debt.  I will fight for pro and equal money for girls in soccer.  My goat has a .1% chance.  Where are your dreams?  Do you dream or is it all Maped out for you and your kid?  Was this Corona thing a part of the plan?  Time to pivot and I already did two years ago.  I made some very smart moves. My soccer moves were too fast and I got played.


My dd is farther along the path than yours.  She is playing the sport she loves at a school she loves and is getting her Undergrad degree essentially for free.  Her goal is then to go to grad school and become a Physician's Assistant.   She can't do that without the education.  The money I save for her college gets to continue to grow (hopefully!) for a few years to pay for grad school.


----------



## futboldad1

Simisoccerfan said:


> My dd is farther along the path than yours.  She is playing the sport she loves at a school she loves and is getting her Undergrad degree essentially for free.  Her goal is then to go to grad school and become a Physician's Assistant.   She can't do that without the education.  The money I save for her college gets to continue to grow (hopefully!) for a few years to pay for grad school.


Congrats to your DD.....I love the success stories....


----------



## gotothebushes

Ellejustus said:


> It runs so much deeper dude.  I know who I'm talking to and you don;t.  Some think I've been talking to myself.  That's ok. I'm talking to a very select few.  They know who they are and I'm hear to let them know what they did to me and my dd will be atone for.  They know what they are guilty of. Most of you only care about college.  I care about how girls are treated more than staying quite so my dd can go to college and play soccer.  More to life than playing soccer in college.  Such hope you placed all your dd in and I respect that.  What say you about all the girls who killed themselves and are depressed?  80% quit dude.  Let that sink in your brain. Plus some girls were getting gromed for other things.  This is the truth no one talks about.


 That is concerning. I would feel bad for any parent that went through what your daughter went through. Again, I'm starting to understand your story and thanks sharing. Its best not to make it personal and to hope people learn from your mistakes. I'm sure 80% quit soccer because of other reasons than being lied to.


----------



## MacDre

azsnowrider said:


> Seriously? He played at ASU over 20 years ago, oh wait he barely saw the field.


Could you please come to my house and tell him that.  I promise you he’s in denial.  I tell him all the time “use to be’s” don’t make honey.  Please shut up.  But he thinks I’m a hater!


----------



## Ellejustus

gotothebushes said:


> That is concerning. I would feel bad for any parent that went through what your daughter went through. Again, I'm starting to understand your story and thanks sharing. Its best not to make it personal and to hope people learn from your mistakes. I'm sure 80% quit soccer because of other reasons than being lied to.


The biggest one is depression.


----------



## azsnowrider

MacDre said:


> Could you please come to my house and tell him that.  I promise you he’s in denial.  I tell him all the time “use to be’s” don’t make honey.  Please shut up.  But he thinks I’m a hater!


Back in those days there was a lot of "relaxed" admission standards, I think ASU has been sanctioned multiple times over them. Basketball got hit hard by a few. But we all know there will always be ways to get kids in.  I remember him, he was an Athlete! I was kidding about his playing time.


----------



## EOTL

Simisoccerfan said:


> Word of advice, your kid is not likely to go pro.  And if she does there is currently no money in it.   Might even be less after this Covid thing is over.  So that leaves two options.  Let her just have fun and enjoy the few years you have left of club.  Or if she is good enough use the next few years of soccer as leverage to get her into a good college and hopefully get part of it paid.  In order to do the later good grades are needed.   Better grades helps her get into a better school and also helps her get academic money.  You know that D1 schools only have 14 scholarships available and some of them are not fully funded.  Who knows if they will be able to fund to the same levels post Covid.  Right now it is extremely rare to get a full athletic scholarship with roster of 30+.  If she gets half she is doing great.  But if she has good grades she can get academic money that can wrap around and make it a full ride.   Add in the endless perks D1 plays get like Total Cost Money, free food, endless clothing and gear and that could amount to $40,000 plus per year.  That is more money than most pro's make that don't get allocation money.  At the end you daughter will have a great experience and will have a degree that she can leverage for her entire life.


A rare moment of lucidity. Keep up the good work buddy!


----------



## Ellejustus

Simisoccerfan said:


> My dd is farther along the path than yours.  She is playing the sport she loves at a school she loves and is getting her Undergrad degree essentially for free.  Her goal is then to go to grad school and become a Physician's Assistant.   She can't do that without the education.  The money I save for her college gets to continue to grow (hopefully!) for a few years to pay for grad school.


And I am 100% happy for your goat.  I really am.  I wasn;t sold that path.  Sorry.  I was sold YNT and Pro. It all worked out for you and your dd.  Good job.  I'm getting my questions answered and that is my only mission.  My dd will never be in your dd way of success, I promise.  Sounds like a great kid and I'm sure your a great parent.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Lester, what time do you go to bed these days?


Depends on how much of your incessant babbling I can stomach, Spicoli.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

gotothebushes said:


> That is concerning. I would feel bad for any parent that went through what your daughter went through. Again, I'm starting to understand your story and thanks sharing. Its best not to make it personal and to hope people learn from your mistakes. I'm sure 80% quit soccer because of other reasons than being lied to.


Are you REALLY starting to understand?  Put your boots on... it gets really deep and runs all over the place.


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> Depends on how much of your incessant babbling I can stomach, Spicoli.


I read a cool story about a guy named Mark with some demons.  I will post it later before bedtime.  It's not what you think and I think you will get a laugh out of it or maybe you wont


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> And I am 100% happy for your goat.  I really am.  I wasn;t sold that path.  Sorry.  I was sold YNT and Pro. It all worked out for you and your dd.  Good job.  I'm getting my questions answered and that is my only mission.  My dd will never be in your dd way of success, I promise.  Sounds like a great kid and I'm sure your a great parent.


If someone told you that your 12-year old was going to go pro or play for the National Team, shame on you for being completely oblivious.   

P.S. - Stop using "your" when "you're" is appropriate.  You're starting to fuck other people up.  Not much of a TunaHelper, are you?


----------



## Ellejustus

The Outlaw said:


> If someone told you that your 12-year old was going to go pro or play for the National Team, shame on you for being completely oblivious.
> 
> P.S. - Stop using "your" when "you're" is appropriate.  You're starting to fuck other people up.  Not much of a TunaHelper, are you?


Why does gramer mater so much to you? You remind me of this one English teacher that hated me. She would have red marks all over my papers I tried to write.  "Slow down!!!" "You can;t write like this and expect to get into college."  I made her life so hard.  I put a marijuana seed in her planter and it grew.  I also took her pencils and she could never find her chalk.  I had my ways even back then.  Telling a 11 year old you suck because you can;t write or talk is for losers like you Lester


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Ellejustus said:


> Why does gramer mater so much to you? You remind me of this one English teacher that hated me. She would have red marks all over my papers I tried to write.  "Slow down!!!" "You can;t write like this and expect to get into college."  I made her life so hard.  I put a marijuana seed in her planter and it grew.  I also took her pencils and she could never find her chalk.  I had my ways even back then.  Telling a 11 year old you suck because you can;t write or talk is for losers like you Lester


Grammar.  And I don't tell 11-year olds they suck.  I also don't tell them they'll play pro... unless they have a goomba for a father.


----------



## MacDre

azsnowrider said:


> Back in those days there was a lot of "relaxed" admission standards, I think ASU has been sanctioned multiple times over them. Basketball got hit hard by a few. But we all know there will always be ways to get kids in.  I remember him, he was an Athlete! I was kidding about his playing time.


Eddie house played hoops in AZ but he was a legit student... J was such a waste of talent.  But he has a son and he’s playing soccer!


----------



## LASTMAN14

The Outlaw said:


> Grammar.  And I don't tell 11-year olds they suck.  I also don't tell them they'll play pro... unless they have a goomba for a father.


Grammar is huge. Anyone who discounts is well...


----------



## dad4

LASTMAN14 said:


> Grammar is huge. Anyone who discounts is well...


I am glad to hear that those who discount are well.  I also wish good health to those who charge full price.


----------



## Giesbock

dad4 said:


> I am glad to hear that those who discount are well.  I also wish good health to those who charge full price.


And to those who discount the importance of grammar.


----------



## Keepers_Keeper

Posted an update on my 2021 keeper on the GK board.  Re-posting here to show that things can change in a heartbeat.  If anyone wants to ask questions or chat privately, please message me.  I won't be posting details on the public forums.  

It's been a rough go for my GK DD the past few weeks. Bad timing...couldn't be worse actually. Now that we are entering the adjustment phase of grief, I am able to post an update.

DD verbally committed to a D1 college (southwest area) 2.5 years ago (before sophomore year - she is now a Jr). Perfect school and program for her. Full ride. Fast forward to this fall...unexpected coaching change, new coach hired in Dec (from college in same conference). New coach verbally confirmed (multiple times including in person at a winter camp) that commitments would be honored. 2 weeks ago, DD received a text and brief phone call stating that the coach was withdrawing the offer. Reason given at the time was lame (not enough $ and over commitments from previous coach). We asked for more info and were told that there were too many GKs on the roster (5 total - 3 were transfers from other colleges after DD committed), and also that the AD was expecting a more competitive program and the new coach needed to focus $ on players that will advance the program. Of course there are now some new commits are 'following' the new coach. I digress...the end result is that my DD is fed up with the 'college soccer drama' and is devastated but is looking to continue playing college club soccer without the drama. Word from players still in the program is that the new coach is good but the culture and dynamic of the team my dd thought she would be a part of no longer exists. It's a different team.

The (hopefully) good news is that the college is still her #1 choice. The not so good news is now we are trying to afford it (good thing she has a 4.7 gpa and can get academic aid). We are trying not to calculate the thousands upon thousands of dollars spent pursuing what could/should have been a valuable scholarship and amazing college experience. You can't put a price tag on emotional health though, right?

I never thought it would end like this. The rejection my dd has dealt with over the past few weeks (relationships ending, sports suspended, school closures, no face-to-face contact with friends, and end to her college soccer dreams) has been traumatic, and her mental and emotional health has been shaken to her core. But we believe that every closed door allows a window to open. She is feeling the breeze and breathing in deeply to refresh her body, mind, soul and spirit. OK, some days, not so much, but those days are less and less often  It is taking a LOT of effort to get through this, especially in isolation. The crazy thing is that, as she has connected with other players, she has learned that many of them are in the same boat for various reasons. Maybe it's just circumstantial, but it sounds like the politics, coaching changes, and demands of college soccer are starting to profoundly affect top quality players deciding not to pursue college soccer. Maybe that means that club soccer in college will be a magnet for high quality players that want to play great soccer without that intensity and drama of D1 (and other levels) soccer. Will add that we know there are other colleges, other D1 (D2, D3, NAIA) programs still recruiting.  My DD is a GREAT goalkeeper, teammate, and person.  She is the whole package.  That won't change because her offer was rescinded.  It is just disappointing that the 'perfect' college is no longer the 'perfect' soccer program.  Who knows, in a few months maybe we can look back and say 'so THAT's why this happened!'.  Or not.  

No matter what the outcome, everything my dd (and I) have learned in our journey from her beginnings with a small local club, to ECNL club, to HS, to college recruiting/commitment/withdrawal has shaped and prepared her for life. So here's to finding Joy in the Journey...wishing you and all your players God's protection and blessings in your journey both on and off the pitch! -K_K


----------



## Dof3

Keepers_Keeper said:


> Posted an update on my 2021 keeper on the GK board.  Re-posting here to show that things can change in a heartbeat.  If anyone wants to ask questions or chat privately, please message me.  I won't be posting details on the public forums.
> 
> It's been a rough go for my GK DD the past few weeks. Bad timing...couldn't be worse actually. Now that we are entering the adjustment phase of grief, I am able to post an update.
> 
> DD verbally committed to a D1 college (southwest area) 2.5 years ago (before sophomore year - she is now a Jr). Perfect school and program for her. Full ride. Fast forward to this fall...unexpected coaching change, new coach hired in Dec (from college in same conference). New coach verbally confirmed (multiple times including in person at a winter camp) that commitments would be honored. 2 weeks ago, DD received a text and brief phone call stating that the coach was withdrawing the offer. Reason given at the time was lame (not enough $ and over commitments from previous coach). We asked for more info and were told that there were too many GKs on the roster (5 total - 3 were transfers from other colleges after DD committed), and also that the AD was expecting a more competitive program and the new coach needed to focus $ on players that will advance the program. Of course there are now some new commits are 'following' the new coach. I digress...the end result is that my DD is fed up with the 'college soccer drama' and is devastated but is looking to continue playing college club soccer without the drama. Word from players still in the program is that the new coach is good but the culture and dynamic of the team my dd thought she would be a part of no longer exists. It's a different team.
> 
> The (hopefully) good news is that the college is still her #1 choice. The not so good news is now we are trying to afford it (good thing she has a 4.7 gpa and can get academic aid). We are trying not to calculate the thousands upon thousands of dollars spent pursuing what could/should have been a valuable scholarship and amazing college experience. You can't put a price tag on emotional health though, right?
> 
> I never thought it would end like this. The rejection my dd has dealt with over the past few weeks (relationships ending, sports suspended, school closures, no face-to-face contact with friends, and end to her college soccer dreams) has been traumatic, and her mental and emotional health has been shaken to her core. But we believe that every closed door allows a window to open. She is feeling the breeze and breathing in deeply to refresh her body, mind, soul and spirit. OK, some days, not so much, but those days are less and less often  It is taking a LOT of effort to get through this, especially in isolation. The crazy thing is that, as she has connected with other players, she has learned that many of them are in the same boat for various reasons. Maybe it's just circumstantial, but it sounds like the politics, coaching changes, and demands of college soccer are starting to profoundly affect top quality players deciding not to pursue college soccer. Maybe that means that club soccer in college will be a magnet for high quality players that want to play great soccer without that intensity and drama of D1 (and other levels) soccer. Will add that we know there are other colleges, other D1 (D2, D3, NAIA) programs still recruiting.  My DD is a GREAT goalkeeper, teammate, and person.  She is the whole package.  That won't change because her offer was rescinded.  It is just disappointing that the 'perfect' college is no longer the 'perfect' soccer program.  Who knows, in a few months maybe we can look back and say 'so THAT's why this happened!'.  Or not.
> 
> No matter what the outcome, everything my dd (and I) have learned in our journey from her beginnings with a small local club, to ECNL club, to HS, to college recruiting/commitment/withdrawal has shaped and prepared her for life. So here's to finding Joy in the Journey...wishing you and all your players God's protection and blessings in your journey both on and off the pitch! -K_K


Wow, that's terrible.  The worst kind of gut punch for a kid after all that work and this environment just makes it so much worse.  A cautionary tale, to be sure.  Best to your DD, you and your family.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

That was a tough read.  Sorry to hear about what you dd is going through.  The full scholarship is part of the issue and I am surprised she was offered that considering at the most they have 14 scholarships.  I can tell you that one of my dd's teammates and closest friends this year is a freshmen and an international student.  She was on a full ride.  She did not play much her first year and this spring the coach told her (in a nicest way possible) that she doesn't fit into his plans and should transfer.   He is going to help her find a place but I firmly believe he does not want have that amount of money tied up in a player that probably won't make a big impact.   I also bet that she would still be coming back next year if she was on a partial scholarship. The tough thing about college sports is that you need to view it as a job and you need to be performing to keep it.   Good luck to your dd.   The good news is that good keepers are always in demand so maybe she finds another home.


----------



## gottouch

How does a decommitment happen usually? Does the player and family inquire at another school or do the colleges go after a committed player? I have heard of it happening so some prominent college soccer players but I don't know how that happens.


----------



## gottouch

dk_b said:


> Every early commit should be careful about promises of playing time.  Obviously, a player receiving a full ride is EXPECTED to contribute right away (they don't and can't just hand those out willy-nilly) so, in that sense, money talks but the earlier the player commits, the greater the chance that that another recruit comes in or that a player progresses differently than hoped, etc.  I mean, Macario did not commit to Stanford right away so someone may have lost some playing time when she changed her mind.


How does a decommitment happen usually? Does the player and family inquire at another school or do the colleges go after a committed player? I have heard of it happening so some prominent college soccer players but I don't know how that happens.


----------



## Dubs

Keepers_Keeper said:


> Posted an update on my 2021 keeper on the GK board.  Re-posting here to show that things can change in a heartbeat.  If anyone wants to ask questions or chat privately, please message me.  I won't be posting details on the public forums.
> 
> It's been a rough go for my GK DD the past few weeks. Bad timing...couldn't be worse actually. Now that we are entering the adjustment phase of grief, I am able to post an update.
> 
> DD verbally committed to a D1 college (southwest area) 2.5 years ago (before sophomore year - she is now a Jr). Perfect school and program for her. Full ride. Fast forward to this fall...unexpected coaching change, new coach hired in Dec (from college in same conference). New coach verbally confirmed (multiple times including in person at a winter camp) that commitments would be honored. 2 weeks ago, DD received a text and brief phone call stating that the coach was withdrawing the offer. Reason given at the time was lame (not enough $ and over commitments from previous coach). We asked for more info and were told that there were too many GKs on the roster (5 total - 3 were transfers from other colleges after DD committed), and also that the AD was expecting a more competitive program and the new coach needed to focus $ on players that will advance the program. Of course there are now some new commits are 'following' the new coach. I digress...the end result is that my DD is fed up with the 'college soccer drama' and is devastated but is looking to continue playing college club soccer without the drama. Word from players still in the program is that the new coach is good but the culture and dynamic of the team my dd thought she would be a part of no longer exists. It's a different team.
> 
> The (hopefully) good news is that the college is still her #1 choice. The not so good news is now we are trying to afford it (good thing she has a 4.7 gpa and can get academic aid). We are trying not to calculate the thousands upon thousands of dollars spent pursuing what could/should have been a valuable scholarship and amazing college experience. You can't put a price tag on emotional health though, right?
> 
> I never thought it would end like this. The rejection my dd has dealt with over the past few weeks (relationships ending, sports suspended, school closures, no face-to-face contact with friends, and end to her college soccer dreams) has been traumatic, and her mental and emotional health has been shaken to her core. But we believe that every closed door allows a window to open. She is feeling the breeze and breathing in deeply to refresh her body, mind, soul and spirit. OK, some days, not so much, but those days are less and less often  It is taking a LOT of effort to get through this, especially in isolation. The crazy thing is that, as she has connected with other players, she has learned that many of them are in the same boat for various reasons. Maybe it's just circumstantial, but it sounds like the politics, coaching changes, and demands of college soccer are starting to profoundly affect top quality players deciding not to pursue college soccer. Maybe that means that club soccer in college will be a magnet for high quality players that want to play great soccer without that intensity and drama of D1 (and other levels) soccer. Will add that we know there are other colleges, other D1 (D2, D3, NAIA) programs still recruiting.  My DD is a GREAT goalkeeper, teammate, and person.  She is the whole package.  That won't change because her offer was rescinded.  It is just disappointing that the 'perfect' college is no longer the 'perfect' soccer program.  Who knows, in a few months maybe we can look back and say 'so THAT's why this happened!'.  Or not.
> 
> No matter what the outcome, everything my dd (and I) have learned in our journey from her beginnings with a small local club, to ECNL club, to HS, to college recruiting/commitment/withdrawal has shaped and prepared her for life. So here's to finding Joy in the Journey...wishing you and all your players God's protection and blessings in your journey both on and off the pitch! -K_K


That is frightening to read... I'm very sorry to hear that.  Wish your DD all the best.  I'm sure she will land on her feet regardless.  All the best to you and your family.


----------



## dk_b

gottouch said:


> How does a decommitment happen usually? Does the player and family inquire at another school or do the colleges go after a committed player? I have heard of it happening so some prominent college soccer players but I don't know how that happens.


I have seen it up close only a couple of times and it involved good but not really elite players.  In each case, it was driven by the player for the most part (though I have seen a coach tell a verbally-committed kid that she'd probably not see the field but he'd honor the commitment).  It is different, of course, when someone has actually signed an NLI (much more involved).  I am aware of some coaches approaching - directly or indirectly - players under verbal commitments (and I think some coaches have a rep of doing that) but I don't know of anyone who decommitted after that type of inquiry (not directly, anyway; I have heard rumor).

I think there is less "damage" to the player who decommits IF she/he has an option at the ready. I do think that coaches take some risk if they decommit a player if the story gets out - it risks damaging relationships with other coaches and damaging credibility with players the coach recruits (everyone thinks his or her kid is special but if you know that Coach X is willing to decommit players in order to upgrade, are you comfortable allowing your kid to agree to a verbal?)


----------



## TOSDCI

Keepers_Keeper said:


> Posted an update on my 2021 keeper on the GK board.  Re-posting here to show that things can change in a heartbeat.  If anyone wants to ask questions or chat privately, please message me.  I won't be posting details on the public forums.
> 
> It's been a rough go for my GK DD the past few weeks. Bad timing...couldn't be worse actually. Now that we are entering the adjustment phase of grief, I am able to post an update.
> 
> DD verbally committed to a D1 college (southwest area) 2.5 years ago (before sophomore year - she is now a Jr). Perfect school and program for her. Full ride. Fast forward to this fall...unexpected coaching change, new coach hired in Dec (from college in same conference). New coach verbally confirmed (multiple times including in person at a winter camp) that commitments would be honored. 2 weeks ago, DD received a text and brief phone call stating that the coach was withdrawing the offer. Reason given at the time was lame (not enough $ and over commitments from previous coach). We asked for more info and were told that there were too many GKs on the roster (5 total - 3 were transfers from other colleges after DD committed), and also that the AD was expecting a more competitive program and the new coach needed to focus $ on players that will advance the program. Of course there are now some new commits are 'following' the new coach. I digress...the end result is that my DD is fed up with the 'college soccer drama' and is devastated but is looking to continue playing college club soccer without the drama. Word from players still in the program is that the new coach is good but the culture and dynamic of the team my dd thought she would be a part of no longer exists. It's a different team.
> 
> The (hopefully) good news is that the college is still her #1 choice. The not so good news is now we are trying to afford it (good thing she has a 4.7 gpa and can get academic aid). We are trying not to calculate the thousands upon thousands of dollars spent pursuing what could/should have been a valuable scholarship and amazing college experience. You can't put a price tag on emotional health though, right?
> 
> I never thought it would end like this. The rejection my dd has dealt with over the past few weeks (relationships ending, sports suspended, school closures, no face-to-face contact with friends, and end to her college soccer dreams) has been traumatic, and her mental and emotional health has been shaken to her core. But we believe that every closed door allows a window to open. She is feeling the breeze and breathing in deeply to refresh her body, mind, soul and spirit. OK, some days, not so much, but those days are less and less often  It is taking a LOT of effort to get through this, especially in isolation. The crazy thing is that, as she has connected with other players, she has learned that many of them are in the same boat for various reasons. Maybe it's just circumstantial, but it sounds like the politics, coaching changes, and demands of college soccer are starting to profoundly affect top quality players deciding not to pursue college soccer. Maybe that means that club soccer in college will be a magnet for high quality players that want to play great soccer without that intensity and drama of D1 (and other levels) soccer. Will add that we know there are other colleges, other D1 (D2, D3, NAIA) programs still recruiting.  My DD is a GREAT goalkeeper, teammate, and person.  She is the whole package.  That won't change because her offer was rescinded.  It is just disappointing that the 'perfect' college is no longer the 'perfect' soccer program.  Who knows, in a few months maybe we can look back and say 'so THAT's why this happened!'.  Or not.
> 
> No matter what the outcome, everything my dd (and I) have learned in our journey from her beginnings with a small local club, to ECNL club, to HS, to college recruiting/commitment/withdrawal has shaped and prepared her for life. So here's to finding Joy in the Journey...wishing you and all your players God's protection and blessings in your journey both on and off the pitch! -K_K


----------



## Dubs

dk_b said:


> I have seen it up close only a couple of times and it involved good but not really elite players.  In each case, it was driven by the player for the most part (though I have seen a coach tell a verbally-committed kid that she'd probably not see the field but he'd honor the commitment).  It is different, of course, when someone has actually signed an NLI (much more involved).  I am aware of some coaches approaching - directly or indirectly - players under verbal commitments (and I think some coaches have a rep of doing that) but I don't know of anyone who decommitted after that type of inquiry (not directly, anyway; I have heard rumor).
> 
> I think there is less "damage" to the player who decommits IF she/he has an option at the ready. I do think that coaches take some risk if they decommit a player if the story gets out - it risks damaging relationships with other coaches and damaging credibility with players the coach recruits (everyone thinks his or her kid is special but if you know that Coach X is willing to decommit players in order to upgrade, are you comfortable allowing your kid to agree to a verbal?)


What are your thoughts regarding what's happening budget wise with the shut down?  Do you think this will effect verbal commits in Power 5 schools?


----------



## SD_Soccer

Keepers_Keeper said:


> Posted an update on my 2021 keeper on the GK board.  Re-posting here to show that things can change in a heartbeat.  If anyone wants to ask questions or chat privately, please message me.  I won't be posting details on the public forums.
> 
> It's been a rough go for my GK DD the past few weeks. Bad timing...couldn't be worse actually. Now that we are entering the adjustment phase of grief, I am able to post an update.
> 
> DD verbally committed to a D1 college (southwest area) 2.5 years ago (before sophomore year - she is now a Jr). Perfect school and program for her. Full ride. Fast forward to this fall...unexpected coaching change, new coach hired in Dec (from college in same conference). New coach verbally confirmed (multiple times including in person at a winter camp) that commitments would be honored. 2 weeks ago, DD received a text and brief phone call stating that the coach was withdrawing the offer. Reason given at the time was lame (not enough $ and over commitments from previous coach). We asked for more info and were told that there were too many GKs on the roster (5 total - 3 were transfers from other colleges after DD committed), and also that the AD was expecting a more competitive program and the new coach needed to focus $ on players that will advance the program. Of course there are now some new commits are 'following' the new coach. I digress...the end result is that my DD is fed up with the 'college soccer drama' and is devastated but is looking to continue playing college club soccer without the drama. Word from players still in the program is that the new coach is good but the culture and dynamic of the team my dd thought she would be a part of no longer exists. It's a different team.
> 
> The (hopefully) good news is that the college is still her #1 choice. The not so good news is now we are trying to afford it (good thing she has a 4.7 gpa and can get academic aid). We are trying not to calculate the thousands upon thousands of dollars spent pursuing what could/should have been a valuable scholarship and amazing college experience. You can't put a price tag on emotional health though, right?
> 
> I never thought it would end like this. The rejection my dd has dealt with over the past few weeks (relationships ending, sports suspended, school closures, no face-to-face contact with friends, and end to her college soccer dreams) has been traumatic, and her mental and emotional health has been shaken to her core. But we believe that every closed door allows a window to open. She is feeling the breeze and breathing in deeply to refresh her body, mind, soul and spirit. OK, some days, not so much, but those days are less and less often  It is taking a LOT of effort to get through this, especially in isolation. The crazy thing is that, as she has connected with other players, she has learned that many of them are in the same boat for various reasons. Maybe it's just circumstantial, but it sounds like the politics, coaching changes, and demands of college soccer are starting to profoundly affect top quality players deciding not to pursue college soccer. Maybe that means that club soccer in college will be a magnet for high quality players that want to play great soccer without that intensity and drama of D1 (and other levels) soccer. Will add that we know there are other colleges, other D1 (D2, D3, NAIA) programs still recruiting.  My DD is a GREAT goalkeeper, teammate, and person.  She is the whole package.  That won't change because her offer was rescinded.  It is just disappointing that the 'perfect' college is no longer the 'perfect' soccer program.  Who knows, in a few months maybe we can look back and say 'so THAT's why this happened!'.  Or not.
> 
> No matter what the outcome, everything my dd (and I) have learned in our journey from her beginnings with a small local club, to ECNL club, to HS, to college recruiting/commitment/withdrawal has shaped and prepared her for life. So here's to finding Joy in the Journey...wishing you and all your players God's protection and blessings in your journey both on and off the pitch! -K_K


Sorry to read that.  If she did well on her college tests, the good news is there are a lot of schools that give merit based aid.  My daughter is at a D3 school and we pay no tuition and they give her money each year.  Many top D3 academics only do need based aid, and depending on your financing there may be money there, too. The good news is any need or merit based aid is not tied to soccer.  Good luck to her.


----------



## dk_b

Dubs said:


> What are your thoughts regarding what's happening budget wise with the shut down?  Do you think this will effect verbal commits in Power 5 schools?


This is just my intuition - I have zero inside information.  I think it will depend entirely on whether there is a Fall '20 season.  If not, I think verbals may be impacted. Unless the NCAA changes the "scholarships/team" limits, there will be a situation with too many players for too few slots. Further, even if the NCAA provides some relief (say, boosting "scholarships/team" numbers by 25%, or even more), not every school has the $$$ to cover that since there are some costs/player that are real costs and not just a portion of $$$ that is not collected from the general student population.


----------



## Ellejustus

Keepers_Keeper said:


> Posted an update on my 2021 keeper on the GK board.  Re-posting here to show that things can change in a heartbeat.  If anyone wants to ask questions or chat privately, please message me.  I won't be posting details on the public forums.
> 
> It's been a rough go for my GK DD the past few weeks. Bad timing...couldn't be worse actually. Now that we are entering the adjustment phase of grief, I am able to post an update.
> 
> DD verbally committed to a D1 college (southwest area) 2.5 years ago (before sophomore year - she is now a Jr). Perfect school and program for her. Full ride. Fast forward to this fall...unexpected coaching change, new coach hired in Dec (from college in same conference). New coach verbally confirmed (multiple times including in person at a winter camp) that commitments would be honored. 2 weeks ago, DD received a text and brief phone call stating that the coach was withdrawing the offer. Reason given at the time was lame (not enough $ and over commitments from previous coach). We asked for more info and were told that there were too many GKs on the roster (5 total - 3 were transfers from other colleges after DD committed), and also that the AD was expecting a more competitive program and the new coach needed to focus $ on players that will advance the program. Of course there are now some new commits are 'following' the new coach. I digress...the end result is that my DD is fed up with the 'college soccer drama' and is devastated but is looking to continue playing college club soccer without the drama. Word from players still in the program is that the new coach is good but the culture and dynamic of the team my dd thought she would be a part of no longer exists. It's a different team.
> 
> The (hopefully) good news is that the college is still her #1 choice. The not so good news is now we are trying to afford it (good thing she has a 4.7 gpa and can get academic aid). We are trying not to calculate the thousands upon thousands of dollars spent pursuing what could/should have been a valuable scholarship and amazing college experience. You can't put a price tag on emotional health though, right?
> 
> I never thought it would end like this. The rejection my dd has dealt with over the past few weeks (relationships ending, sports suspended, school closures, no face-to-face contact with friends, and end to her college soccer dreams) has been traumatic, and her mental and emotional health has been shaken to her core. But we believe that every closed door allows a window to open. She is feeling the breeze and breathing in deeply to refresh her body, mind, soul and spirit. OK, some days, not so much, but those days are less and less often  It is taking a LOT of effort to get through this, especially in isolation. The crazy thing is that, as she has connected with other players, she has learned that many of them are in the same boat for various reasons. Maybe it's just circumstantial, but it sounds like the politics, coaching changes, and demands of college soccer are starting to profoundly affect top quality players deciding not to pursue college soccer. Maybe that means that club soccer in college will be a magnet for high quality players that want to play great soccer without that intensity and drama of D1 (and other levels) soccer. Will add that we know there are other colleges, other D1 (D2, D3, NAIA) programs still recruiting.  My DD is a GREAT goalkeeper, teammate, and person.  She is the whole package.  That won't change because her offer was rescinded.  It is just disappointing that the 'perfect' college is no longer the 'perfect' soccer program.  Who knows, in a few months maybe we can look back and say 'so THAT's why this happened!'.  Or not.
> 
> No matter what the outcome, everything my dd (and I) have learned in our journey from her beginnings with a small local club, to ECNL club, to HS, to college recruiting/commitment/withdrawal has shaped and prepared her for life. So here's to finding Joy in the Journey...wishing you and all your players God's protection and blessings in your journey both on and off the pitch! -K_K


Thank you for sharing and being honest.  I wish 100% a safe place for your GK dd.  She will be stronger for it too


----------



## Dubs

dk_b said:


> This is just my intuition - I have zero inside information.  I think it will depend entirely on whether there is a Fall '20 season.  If not, I think verbals may be impacted. Unless the NCAA changes the "scholarships/team" limits, there will be a situation with too many players for too few slots. Further, even if the NCAA provides some relief (say, boosting "scholarships/team" numbers by 25%, or even more), not every school has the $$$ to cover that since there are some costs/player that are real costs and not just a portion of $$$ that is not collected from the general student population.


Yeah.  I was thinking about the possibility of the Fall not happening and then what?  Incoming 2020s + seniors that are getting an extra year of eligiblilty creates a log jam.  They need to consider solutions for this, otherwise it will be a cluster F for all programs.  I REALLY hope Fall is not compromised.


----------



## dk_b

Dubs said:


> Yeah.  I was thinking about the possibility of the Fall not happening and then what?  Incoming 2020s + seniors that are getting an extra year of eligiblilty creates a log jam.  They need to consider solutions for this, otherwise it will be a cluster F for all programs.  I REALLY hope Fall is not compromised.


Me, too.  My daughter is one of those incoming 2020s . . .


----------



## youthsportsugh

My daughter is finishing her sophomore year playing for a DA club (which i now no longer DA). The club has been really good about the recruitment process and guiding us along the way. Her team is pretty good and she has also played some ODP so she has had some exposure to college coaches/scouts watching her play.  No early commitment opportunities (not sure how we would have handled that- above story is very unfortunate), but there does seem to be interest.  Things we have learned along the way
1. Visit schools whether officially or unofficially (she wants to go east and had the opportunity to visit several over a week long trip last summer really opened her eyes to what she wants and what is available out there)
2. Commit to the school not the program (again above story bears that out)
3. Don't count on the scholarship money being there or being there the entire time
4. IVY league doesn't give athletic scholarships (academic/need/), so if athlete gets hurt or coach change funding stays

Definitely an interesting time in the life of girls/women's soocer
Good Luck and Stay Healthy!


----------



## socalkdg

gkrent said:


> GKS tend to commit earlier because of the limited number of spots.


Been told by a couple reputable keeper trainers that the opposite is true.   Fully developed body type and the experience factor required for keepers.


----------



## socalkdg

Colleges are always contacting them for senior keepers.


----------



## dk_b

socalkdg said:


> Colleges are always contacting them for senior keepers.


I think that there are a number of GK parents on this site whose kids committed early and who are (or were) pretty involved with their local GK communities so draw from a pretty big pool.  There are always coaches looking for a really good GK b/c they get caught in between classes but it really common for top schools (or schools from top conferences) and top GKs to be matched pretty early (or was before the change in the recruiting rules of the last couple of years).  At least for the ones who are expected to contribute early in their college careers.


----------



## socalkdg

Really happy with the change in recruiting.  With my daughter still growing she should be close to her full height by the end of sophomore year, plus putting on a few pounds of muscle to her slender frame.


----------



## Ellejustus

socalkdg said:


> Really happy with the change in recruiting.  With my daughter still growing she should be close to her full height by the end of sophomore year, plus putting on a few pounds of muscle to her slender frame.


Bro, I was just telling my wife that.  When my little goat was being looked at as an 8th grader, it was so weird.  Look, I love sports and I watched Shea Cotton, "I thought he would be Lebron" as 8th grader and he was real good.  Easy top goat.  Mind was 4 11'.  Now, she's 5 5' and has a nice soccer frame.  I've learned not to use certain words to describe a girl athlete's body who likes to surf and go to the beach


----------



## TOSDCI

socalkdg said:


> Colleges are always contacting them for senior keepers.


Most of the D1 schools that my DD is interested in committed their 2021 GKs very early.  D3s are still looking for sure.  It is difficult to get noticed when you are not playing DA (previously) or ECNL.  She is very good keeper but not Stanford or UCLA good.  We are still looking but not optimistic.


----------



## Soccer43

there are plenty of options besides Stanford and UCLA.  coaches are still recruiting last minute from the seniors at Vegas Cup to fill gaps and openings.  Just stay flexible and open.


----------



## gkrent

socalkdg said:


> Been told by a couple reputable keeper trainers that the opposite is true.   Fully developed body type and the experience factor required for keepers.


No GK coming out of High School is "experienced" except maybe a couple of YNT keepers and even then don't have the actual "experience" needed to play at the highest collegiate level.


----------



## MMMM

TOSDCI said:


> Most of the D1 schools that my DD is interested in committed their 2021 GKs very early.  D3s are still looking for sure.  It is difficult to get noticed when you are not playing DA (previously) or ECNL.  She is very good keeper but not Stanford or UCLA good.  We are still looking but not optimistic.


There seems to be a difference between well-ranked west coast schools, which pick up girl GKs early, and well-ranked east coast schools, which seem to run later. Except for UNC which signs girls early and often.


----------



## TOSDCI

Soccer43 said:


> there are plenty of options besides Stanford and UCLA.  coaches are still recruiting last minute from the seniors at Vegas Cup to fill gaps and openings.  Just stay flexible and open.


Is there a way to find out which D1 schools are still looking to fill a GK spot for 2021 other than contacting each coach individually?  I see some information on Top Drawer Soccer but I don't think that is accurate.


----------



## Soccer43

I don’t know of any easy way to answer that question.  There is a list on top drawer soccer that lists what recruiting spots are still open and even if it isn’t accurate it might be a good place to start.  Most importantly your player should have an idea of where she want to go to school and start there.  You have to be happy with the school above everything else.  Hopefully everyone will be back playing soon and going to showcases is important.  If you have a good coach you can ask for direction there also.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

TOSDCI said:


> Is there a way to find out which D1 schools are still looking to fill a GK spot for 2021 other than contacting each coach individually?  I see some information on Top Drawer Soccer but I don't think that is accurate.


1) I’d start by calling colleges that just hired a new coaches.  They want their own people and kids could be transferring out.

2)look at rosters of colleges your dd is interested in. Look at how many goalies they have and what year they are.

3)ask your DOC to make some calls.  They aren’t doing anything right now.


----------



## full90

Top drawer is not accurate nor reliable.

check rosters of colleges your kid is interested in. If they don’t have a starter returning next fall have your coach reach out to their coaches and ask how confident they are who they have coming back/coming in can do the job for them.


----------



## dk_b

full90 said:


> Top drawer is not accurate nor reliable.
> 
> check rosters of colleges your kid is interested in. If they don’t have a starter returning next fall have your coach reach out to their coaches and ask how confident they are who they have coming back/coming in can do the job for them.


assuming a "normal" fall collegiate season, for a 2021 GK, the player (and parent) will want to look at the entire roster of GKs of target schools.  Not a problem if there is a soph who may be a starter as a Jr in the fall b/c few GKs will start as frosh so being a frosh when that GK is a Sr (fall of '21) is a good opp if they don't have a target GK coming in 2020 or 2022 or maybe currently a frosh on the roster.  Even though TDS is not always reliable, it often is for top players and GKs are easy to find and figure out whether they are going with high expectations to contribute (you need to look at TDS and the roster like it is a puzzle).  The analysis is a lot easier in many ways than it is for field players - you can see if there may be an opportunity or if there is little expectation.  My kid wanted the best opportunity to contribute as early as possible and it absolutely impacted the schools she spoke to and why one that may have been a great fit but tends to work their target GKs in two-year stretches (sit for two, start for two) was dropped.

Of course, it won't matter if there is an expected stud GK if a younger, less heralded one, arrives and kicks ass.  The high-level recruit may have a larger margin of error but no coach wants to put a key player out there who will give them less opp to win compared to the player on the bench (few schools have the luxury of rotating GKs like Stanford has done to a great degree the last couple of years during the season).


----------



## SoccerJones

gkrent said:


> No GK coming out of High School is "experienced" except maybe a couple of YNT keepers and even then don't have the actual "experience" needed to play at the highest collegiate level.


Try telling that to Cal's GK, who was the freshman Pac-12 player of the year and second team all-American as a freshman.  She is defiantly going places.


----------



## MakeAPlay

SoccerJones said:


> Try telling that to Cal's GK, who was the freshman Pac-12 player of the year and second team all-American as a freshman.  She is defiantly going places.


She was the reason that they upset UCLA.  She had 12 or 13 saves some of the WTF type.  UCLA was a much better team but she was able to work her magic.  She is a unicorn though.  i would take Stanford's keeper over any keeper in college IMHO.


----------



## espola

SoccerJones said:


> Try telling that to Cal's GK, who was the freshman Pac-12 player of the year and second team all-American as a freshman.  She is defiantly going places.


Defiantly?


----------



## SoccerJones

espola said:


> Defiantly?


Who the hell spell checks on a message board...ffs


----------



## espola

SoccerJones said:


> Who the hell spell checks on a message board...ffs


"Defiantly" there would have been a much more interesting response than "definitely".


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

espola said:


> "Defiantly" there would have been a much more interesting response than "definitely".


How do you know she doesn't go defiantly?


----------



## EOTL

MakeAPlay said:


> She was the reason that they upset UCLA.  She had 12 or 13 saves some of the WTF type.  UCLA was a much better team but she was able to work her magic.  She is a unicorn though.  i would take Stanford's keeper over any keeper in college IMHO.


Then you would lose to Cal again.


----------



## espola

The Outlaw said:


> How do you know she doesn't go defiantly?


I don't.  The interesting story would be explaining why.


----------



## Copa9

Simisoccerfan said:


> That was a tough read.  Sorry to hear about what you dd is going through.  The full scholarship is part of the issue and I am surprised she was offered that considering at the most they have 14 scholarships.  I can tell you that one of my dd's teammates and closest friends this year is a freshmen and an international student.  She was on a full ride.  She did not play much her first year and this spring the coach told her (in a nicest way possible) that she doesn't fit into his plans and should transfer.   He is going to help her find a place but I firmly believe he does not want have that amount of money tied up in a player that probably won't make a big impact.   I also bet that she would still be coming back next year if she was on a partial scholarship. The tough thing about college sports is that you need to view it as a job and you need to be performing to keep it.   Good luck to your dd.   The good news is that good keepers are always in demand so maybe she finds another home.


The great news is that with a 4.7 there is academic money out there.  Some D1 programs in the south offer full rides with a strong academic GPA and top ACT or SAT scores with academic scholarships.


----------



## Copa9

Dubs said:


> Yeah.  I was thinking about the possibility of the Fall not happening and then what?  Incoming 2020s + seniors that are getting an extra year of eligiblilty creates a log jam.  They need to consider solutions for this, otherwise it will be a cluster F for all programs.  I REALLY hope Fall is not compromised.


A lot of those seniors will move on to graduate school using their extra year of eligibility to get into their school of choice or maybe just decide to move on with their adult lives.  It will certainly be interesting.


----------



## soccer661

Just saw this...









						Coronavirus: NCAA releases nine-step and three-phase plan for schools to resume sports
					

The plan is based on the United States' three-phase federal guidelines for easing social distancing and re-opening non-essential businesses.




					sports.yahoo.com


----------



## Dubs

Copa9 said:


> A lot of those seniors will move on to graduate school using their extra year of eligibility to get into their school of choice or maybe just decide to move on with their adult lives.  It will certainly be interesting.


True.  This will definitely happen.  God I hope Fall will happen.... otherwise we get into the very shakey ground territory.


----------



## SoccerJones

Copa9 said:


> A lot of those seniors will move on to graduate school using their extra year of eligibility to get into their school of choice or maybe just decide to move on with their adult lives.  It will certainly be interesting.


Or they may take the extra year to get their masters/PhD paid for.  I already told me daughter if you don't play this year because of COVID, "you're getting your masters regardless if you want to or not" hahah.  Hey, the first year will be free!


----------



## youthsportsugh

SoccerJones said:


> Try telling that to Cal's GK, who was the freshman Pac-12 player of the year and second team all-American as a freshman.  She is defiantly going places.


For sure, but she would also fall into that YNT keeper to have the experience that gkrent mentioned. Her Bio is impressive another top player out of Mustang club. Goalkeeper is like those other special positions in other sports the really talented ones will be able to move to the next level with little effort, but most others will take time to adapt even if they were the best on their club teams. The next levels are the next levels for a reason!


----------



## SoccerJones

youthsportsugh said:


> For sure, but she would also fall into that YNT keeper to have the experience that gkrent mentioned. Her Bio is impressive another top player out of Mustang club. Goalkeeper is like those other special positions in other sports the really talented ones will be able to move to the next level with little effort, but most others will take time to adapt even if they were the best on their club teams. The next levels are the next levels for a reason!


yah i guess she'd fall under that category....but if you saw the teams the USYNT played against, one could hardly call it quality international competition...out of all the games they played in, there were maybe 1 or 2 teams that even gave them a run for their money.  I think (could be wrong) what they are alluding to are those on older NT's, just under the WNT.  again, i could be mistaken.  All i know is that she's a fun kid to watch!  She has size, quickness, good hands and reaction.  And is TALL.  If she keeps progressing she should be in the mix for GK'ing duties at higher levels.  Best of luck to her!


----------



## MakeAPlay

EOTL said:


> Then you would lose to Cal again.



UCLA has lost to Cal like twice in the last 15 years.  I am comfortable with that.  My kid lost once to Cal and it took the aforementioned keeper's best game of the entire season for that to happen and they still ended up in the College Cup and Cal STILL LOST IN THE FIRST ROUND OF THE TOURNAMENT......  Cal won't beat UCLA again for another 5 or so years.

She sure is a talented keeper though.


----------



## gotothebushes

MakeAPlay said:


> UCLA has lost to Cal like twice in the last 15 years.  I am comfortable with that.  My kid lost once to Cal and it took the aforementioned keeper's best game of the entire season for that to happen and they still ended up in the College Cup and Cal STILL LOST IN THE FIRST ROUND OF THE TOURNAMENT......  Cal won't beat UCLA again for another 5 or so years.
> 
> She sure is a talented keeper though.


Can't argue stats and film doesn't lie.


----------



## EOTL

MakeAPlay said:


> UCLA has lost to Cal like twice in the last 15 years.  I am comfortable with that.  My kid lost once to Cal and it took the aforementioned keeper's best game of the entire season for that to happen and they still ended up in the College Cup and Cal STILL LOST IN THE FIRST ROUND OF THE TOURNAMENT......  Cal won't beat UCLA again for another 5 or so years.
> 
> She sure is a talented keeper though.


Just having fun. I’m only saying she is a tremendous, once in a generation talent. Stanford’s is great too, but not like that. Anderson played out of her freakin’ mind in that game, but she always does. She and Macario leave the WNT make the WNT well-positioned for the future.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

gotothebushes said:


> Can't argue stats and film doesn't lie.


Cal's loss of Kim huge.  I watched several game and her speed led to MANY dangerous opportunities/scores that will be no more.  
I saw no one of her caliber on the pitch.  Their goaile will keep them in games though.


----------



## gotothebushes

eastbaysoccer said:


> Cal's loss of Kim huge.  I watched several game and her speed led to MANY dangerous opportunities/scores that will be no more.
> I saw no one of her caliber on the pitch.  Their goaile will keep them in games though.


 Cal's goalie is legit can't argue you that. Not sure if he can'r repeat her performance against UCLA though. She was amazing!


----------



## Zen

eastbaysoccer said:


> Cal's loss of Kim huge.  I watched several game and her speed led to MANY dangerous opportunities/scores that will be no more.
> I saw no one of her caliber on the pitch.  Their goaile will keep them in games though.


Class of 2020 has some speed arriving, and 2021 does in spades.  They have great talent in the pipeline, including ready replacements for Kim.  If they assemble a complete team, they will be national cup contenders.  While the recruits are great...they are primarily athletic forwards and some solid backs.  I'm just not sure who will play in the mid-field and how it will all come together...but if it does, they will be extremely dangerous.


----------



## youthsportsugh

Zen said:


> Class of 2020 has some speed arriving, and 2021 does in spades.  They have great talent in the pipeline, including ready replacements for Kim.  If they assemble a complete team, they will be national cup contenders.  While the recruits are great...they are primarily athletic forwards and some solid backs.  I'm just not sure who will play in the mid-field and how it will all come together...but if it does, they will be extremely dangerous.


The 2021 class seems pretty excellent on paper (topdrawer ratings -- take with grain of salt!)


----------



## kickingandscreaming

dk_b said:


> Me, too.  My daughter is one of those incoming 2020s . . .


Excellent and congratulations! May you get to see a full season.


----------



## gkrent

dk_b said:


> Me, too.  My daughter is one of those incoming 2020s . . .


Who are you rooting for!?!?


----------



## SoccerJones

Zen said:


> Class of 2020 has some speed arriving, and 2021 does in spades.  They have great talent in the pipeline, including ready replacements for Kim.  If they assemble a complete team, they will be national cup contenders.  While the recruits are great...they are primarily athletic forwards and some solid backs.  I'm just not sure who will play in the mid-field and how it will all come together...but if it does, they will be extremely dangerous.


I really hope Cal does well..it would be good for the Pac-12 if they can begin to compete for a conference championship.  Neil also need to get the monkey off his back as he hasn't been able to get past the second round since he got there and has had constant early exits.  2020 class is loaded and should provide a lot of firepower (hopefully next year) in the next couple years.  Hitting the ground running as a freshman is hard to do, but Anderson did it with grace, class, and a lot of hard work.


----------



## dk_b

gkrent said:


> Who are you rooting for!?!?


not sure I understand the question


----------



## From the Spot

Copa9 said:


> Some D1 programs in the south offer full rides with a strong academic GPA and top ACT or SAT scores with academic scholarships.


What type of numbers are you talking about?


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

eastbaysoccer said:


> Cal's loss of Kim huge.  I watched several game and her speed led to MANY dangerous opportunities/scores that will be no more.
> I saw no one of her caliber on the pitch.  Their goaile will keep them in games though.


Interesting... I have the opposite opinion.  She does have tremendous speed but I rarely saw that team capitalize on it.  I saw some nice outside runs followed by a cross, and that's not her fault, but when it comes to the "caliber" you want in a forward, Sophia Smith and Ashley Sanchez are finishers.


----------



## Copa9

From the Spot said:


> What type of numbers are you talking about?





From the Spot said:


> What type of numbers are you talking about?


Varies, the higher your GPA the lower the ACT and SAT can be and vice versa. (ACT of 32 and above with a 3.6, 3.7 for example, 4.3 with ACT of 30) Academics are extremely important. Schools want to raise their academic average for their athletic teams.  Plus some universities have Honors Colleges at the University that the student would be in.  For the classes of 2021 and 2022 it's possible some universities will not require the SAT or ACT so grades will be even more important. It is going to be interesting.


----------



## full90

I thought Kim wasn’t as dangerous or effective compared to other forwards on the west coast. Her speed was threatening but didn’t amount to much. 
cal has had great classes again and again and again and again and have won nothing. Maybe this is their year. But what’s the saying about past results predicting future success?


----------



## Dubs

full90 said:


> I thought Kim wasn’t as dangerous or effective compared to other forwards on the west coast. Her speed was threatening but didn’t amount to much.
> cal has had great classes again and again and again and again and have won nothing. Maybe this is their year. But what’s the saying about past results predicting future success?


I don't think you realize the quality and pace Cal has coming in the next two classes.  I'm not predicting anything, but I will say the volume of talent, skill, athletecism and true speed is more in these two classes than most programs have seen in a while.  Hopefully it all works out well.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Dubs said:


> I don't think you realize the quality and pace Cal has coming in the next two classes.  I'm not predicting anything, but I will say the volume of talent, skill, athletecism and true speed is more in these two classes than most programs have seen in a while.  Hopefully it all works out well.


The pace is pretty to the eyes but here's what I see... Cal's center mid, who is a phenomenal passer... compared to Jessie Fleming, freshman Mya Doms at Stanford or even DeMelo at USC.  Those other programs have a relentless CM that never eases up.  Never gives you a break.  I don't see that at Cal.  I see through balls to Kim that wind up being goal kicks.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Zen said:


> Class of 2020 has some speed arriving, and 2021 does in spades.  They have great talent in the pipeline, including ready replacements for Kim.  If they assemble a complete team, they will be national cup contenders.  While the recruits are great...they are primarily athletic forwards and some solid backs.  I'm just not sure who will play in the mid-field and how it will all come together...but if it does, they will be extremely dangerous.


Every team in the pac12 is bringing in great pace.  
@outlaw- agree w u on Kim.

Cal will always attracts the talent.  Just wondering  when they will kick to old coach to the curb and get someone in there who can take the program to the next level.


----------



## SoccerJones

eastbaysoccer said:


> Every team in the pac12 is bringing in great pace.
> @outlaw- agree w u on Kim.
> 
> Cal will always attracts the talent.  Just wondering  when they will kick to old coach to the curb and get someone in there who can take the program to the next level.


Unless his contract is up, I"m not sure that they're gonna get rid of him.  The program is competitive, he doesn't rock the boat, runs a clean program.  Universities don't prioritize soccer, let alone women's soccer unless you're a top 10 program.  And even then...


----------



## Dubs

The Outlaw said:


> The pace is pretty to the eyes but here's what I see... Cal's center mid, who is a phenomenal passer... compared to Jessie Fleming, freshman Mya Doms at Stanford or even DeMelo at USC.  Those other programs have a relentless CM that never eases up.  Never gives you a break.  I don't see that at Cal.  I see through balls to Kim that wind up being goal kicks.


We shall see.   As I said, I'm not making predictions and I agree pace isn't everything, but that's my point.  There are more than several players in these classes that have excellent soccer IQ + pace + athleticism.  A few of them, though forwards, could play in the midfield as well.  Also, yes.  Every team in the PAC 12 has athletic girls with pace, but will each team have 5-7 straight burners with Abi Kim speed or ever faster?  I don't think so.


----------



## Copa9

Dubs said:


> We shall see.   As I said, I'm not making predictions and I agree pace isn't everything, but that's my point.  There are more than several players in these classes that have excellent soccer IQ + pace + athleticism.  A few of them, though forwards, could play in the midfield as well.  Also, yes.  Every team in the PAC 12 has athletic girls with pace, but will each team have 5-7 straight burners with Abi Kim speed or ever faster?  I don't think so.


With 11 or 12 recruits, not sure, for next year there is bound to be at least one or two who will make an impact, if they play.


----------



## full90

I’m sure the recruits are amazing. All I’m saying is he’s had amazing classes in the past and won nothing. Have you seen the rankings and players that have come through cal since he’s been there? Highly ranked and regarded and many went on to become pros. The talent has been there. will it change now? Maybe. I’m not rooting against them just find it crazy they haven’t been better. Maybe these are the classes to do it! 

he had alex Morgan and couldn’t win. Soooo


----------



## SoccerJones

full90 said:


> I’m sure the recruits are amazing. All I’m saying is he’s had amazing classes in the past and won nothing. Have you seen the rankings and players that have come through cal since he’s been there? Highly ranked and regarded and many went on to become pros. The talent has been there. will it change now? Maybe. I’m not rooting against them just find it crazy they haven’t been better. Maybe these are the classes to do it!
> 
> he had alex Morgan and couldn’t win. Soooo


I think what you're saying is the guy can't coach.  I would have to totally 100% agree with that notion. Given his tenure, the school (world class public school with no academic restrictions), and conference, they should have been way more competitive and have more proof in the pudding than only 1-2 second round appearances.  His teams underperform, plain and simple.  Maybe it's the coach, maybe it's the players.  I was just looking at his bio and can't for the life of me, understand how he was hired:


2000Mississippi State8-11-12001Mississippi State13-8-02002Mississippi State6-13-12003Mississippi State9-8-32005Texas Tech1-18-02006Texas Tech7-11-2

especially at a Pac-12 job.  Again, we'll see how they do this year.  They should have a good defense and mid...need scoring to happen up front.


----------



## eastbaysoccer

When you have programs with talent and good coaching:  Stanford, USC, WSU, UCLA you are already battling for 5th place in the pac 12.   Add a new coach at Oregon and a potentially good one at Oregon State it’s gonna be tough for Cal next year.  I see them in the 6-8 place next year.


----------



## full90

The Cal AD in charge of hiring him knew him from a previous stop.


----------



## SoccerJones

full90 said:


> The Cal AD in charge of hiring him knew him from a previous stop.


well there you have it...it's not about how good or bad you are as a coach as much as who you know...smh


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

SoccerJones said:


> well there you have it...it's not about how good or bad you are as a coach as much as who you know...smh


He's lucky Tracy Hamm found a job when she did.


----------



## SoccerJones

The Outlaw said:


> He's lucky Tracy Hamm found a job when she did.


Good Call.  She is definitely and up and coming young coach.  I saw a training session of hers at Livermore and it was pretty darn good.  She really connects with her players.  It also doesn't hurt that she's a female, which is great for women's soccer!


----------



## gkrent

dk_b said:


> not sure I understand the question


Well, I'm guessing you will be rooting for your kids team...so who is it?


----------



## dk_b

gkrent said:


> Well, I'm guessing you will be rooting for your kids team...so who is it?


Ha ha!  Got it!


----------



## eastbaysoccer

I don't think Neil has done a terrible job but if you got rid of his 150K UC salary and hired Hamm (who is likely earning less then 100K) at 120K you'd save 30K per year and get potentially a better coach.  That's a win win situation.


----------



## SoccerJones

eastbaysoccer said:


> I don't think Neil has done a terrible job but if you got rid of his 150K UC salary and hired Hamm (who is likely earning less then 100K) at 120K you'd save 30K per year and get potentially a better coach.  That's a win win situation.


Agreed. Not a terrible job and from the outside looking in, he's done a good job staying clean and representing the university well.  Because at UC's in non revenue generating sports, it's hard to get rid of someone who performs adequate.  Sheesh, look at UCSB.  That guy's been there forever and has nothing to really show for it...Recruiting is rough but to be at a destination school like UCSB...I would think it would be easy to get kids to want to come there...sun and beach???


----------



## eastbaysoccer

SoccerJones said:


> Agreed. Not a terrible job and from the outside looking in, he's done a good job staying clean and representing the university well.  Because at UC's in non revenue generating sports, it's hard to get rid of someone who performs adequate.  Sheesh, look at UCSB.  That guy's been there forever and has nothing to really show for it...Recruiting is rough but to be at a destination school like UCSB...I would think it would be easy to get kids to want to come there...sun and beach???


UCSB should be a powerhouse being a top 50 school wonderful weather.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

eastbaysoccer said:


> UCSB should be a powerhouse being a top 50 school wonderful weather.


UCSB is top of the list of schools that have distractions that keep athletes from being fully focused on their sport.


----------



## SoccerJones

Simisoccerfan said:


> UCSB is top of the list of schools that have distractions that keep athletes from being fully focused on their sport.


I think there's merit to what you're saying.  How could it not be somewhat of a distraction??  But it all depends on the culture that's established and that culture starts with the head coach.  IF he fosters an environment where it's okay to have beach days, then that's the norm.  I'm sure there's a happy medium (im almost sure lol).  If a motivated, ambitious coach with good pipelines were to take over at UCSB, things would change.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dubs said:


> I don't think you realize the quality and pace Cal has coming in the next two classes.  I'm not predicting anything, but I will say the volume of talent, skill, athletecism and true speed is more in these two classes than most programs have seen in a while.  Hopefully it all works out well.


Cal gets top talent every year.  It isn't the talent it is the coach.  He is a nice guy but if the coaches at Stnaford, UCLA or U$C had the same results they would have been fired a long time ago...  They are the only California member of the PAC 12 that hasn't won a national championship in the last 7 years.  They get plenty of talent (Alex Morgan for example).   It's not about the talent level there....


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dubs said:


> We shall see.   As I said, I'm not making predictions and I agree pace isn't everything, but that's my point.  There are more than several players in these classes that have excellent soccer IQ + pace + athleticism.  A few of them, though forwards, could play in the midfield as well.  Also, yes.  Every team in the PAC 12 has athletic girls with pace, but will each team have 5-7 straight burners with Abi Kim speed or ever faster?  I don't think so.


Abi Kim wasn't even in the top 5 for forwards that my daughter mentioned as being difficult to defend in the PAC 12.  As a matter of fact she said she was easy because she had no left.  If you could force her left she had to pass.


----------



## warrior49

MakeAPlay said:


> Abi Kim wasn't even in the top 5 for forwards that my daughter mentioned as being difficult to defend in the PAC 12.  As a matter of fact she said she was easy because she had no left.  If you could force her left she had to pass.


Basically the same scouting report my daughter's team got last season before they played Cal. Force her left. And it worked. Her game seemed to be make runs up the right and cross it.


----------



## Dubs

MakeAPlay said:


> Abi Kim wasn't even in the top 5 for forwards that my daughter mentioned as being difficult to defend in the PAC 12.  As a matter of fact she said she was easy because she had no left.  If you could force her left she had to pass.


MAP buddy... just using her as an example.  My only point is there is significant talent coming in.  I make no predictions concerning results.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

Dubs said:


> MAP buddy... just using her as an example.  My only point is there is significant talent coming in.  I make no predictions concerning results.


If you're a striker that can't go to your left...


----------



## Soccerfan2

MakeAPlay said:


> Cal gets top talent every year.  It isn't the talent it is the coach.  He is a nice guy but if the coaches at Stnaford, UCLA or U$C had the same results they would have been fired a long time ago...  They are the only California member of the PAC 12 that hasn't won a national championship in the last 7 years.  They get plenty of talent (Alex Morgan for example).   It's not about the talent level there....


What do you think the weakness in coaching is?


----------



## espola

The Outlaw said:


> If you're a striker that can't go to your left...


"had no left" doesn't mean "can't go to your left".


----------



## eastbaysoccer

So outside of the power 5 conference and TOP 20,  what teams could have a breakout season next year?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Soccerfan2 said:


> What do you think the weakness in coaching is?


He is Scottish so he likes a very direct game and then he plays defense and he usually has a top tier keeper that makes that philosophy work against the bottom half of the conference.  The problem is that style rarely works against the top half of the conference.  Honestly in the country he is probably does the least with the amount of talent that he has.  Case in point.  Wazzu's coach or Oregon State's coach would work wonders witht he talent that he has walk through his door.  He has a top 25 academic university in the great state of California.  ANY coach short of a list of about 6 or 7 would love that advantage.  He has some really high end pieces that he wastes with their style of play.  

He is a nice guy though and I like him as a person.  The fact that they did not win one playoff game while my kid was in college and the other 2 schools that she considered both made it to multiple College Cups over the same time period should tell you all that you need to know.  Despite all of that Cal is still a good place to go to school because to be honest the academics matter more than the soocer to me.  Berkeley was too gritty for my kid she is sort of a princess.

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

espola said:


> "had no left" doesn't mean "can't go to your left".


 Yes it does.


----------



## espola

The Outlaw said:


> Yes it does.


So you never played defense.


----------



## The Outlaw *BANNED*

espola said:


> So you never played defense.


Apparently you never played soccer.


----------



## espola

The Outlaw said:


> Apparently you never played soccer.


I played from 1957 to 2004.  I gave up at age 57 because it was taking me more than a week to recover from each week's games.

I attended a small high school team with a new program (4 years by the time I got into HS) that had a very good coach (refugee during WW2 from Hungary who had graduated with a phys ed degree from Springfield, then joined the US Army and organized soccer games in Europe for Army teams). I played as a right wing in the old 2-3-5 formation with a W or M shape up front depending on the situation and the coach's or captain's call.    I was expected to bring the ball up the right side to make a flat cross with my strong foot into the box. unless the defenders on that side gave me some room to move in closer.  I had speed, but I wasn't very big so I had to use my head - soccer is a good game for that.  The coach didn't cut anybody and 70 or so players (almost half the boys in that little high school) came to the first few practices, although probably no more than 20 of them ever played (the same guys who were the starters in basketball and baseball).  The coach rewarded all those who stuck it out the whole season with a bus ride to the last away game.  I played in a summer league in 1964, where I scored my first goal, playing left wing for that coach - on my first run up the side, the biggest player on our HS basketball team flattened me with a chest-to-chest bump.   The next time he fell trying to block me out so I ran by him for an easy shot.

I played pickup games on the lawns in college (no time for organized sports).  Then a service team on the USS Enterprise 74-75 cruise, then adult-league indoor starting in the 80's.  There used to be a pickup game every Sunday at 8AM in Poway at Arbolitos (unless it was closed, but then you could find the game at Meadowbrook Middle School).

I didn't really play much defense until the 80's.  I used to be 135 lbs and quick but I found myself going to 180 and still fit enough to play.  It's a different skill set.  You learn how to time a block of another player's kick so the ball ends up going in the direction you desire.  I figured out somewhere along the way that a player with a dominant right foot and not much on his left will turn to his left in a stressful situation, such as receiving a ball when he knows he has a defender on his back.  I'd try to put myself there first, waiting for him.  He's going to play the ball with the inside of his right foot, which will tend to bring the ball to the player's left.

Easy test for dominant foot - time the player running just around the center circle one way (whichever he prefers) and then around the circle the other way.  Compare times.


----------



## espola

espola said:


> I played from 1957 to 2004.  I gave up at age 57 because it was taking me more than a week to recover from each week's games.
> 
> I attended a small high school team with a new program (4 years by the time I got into HS) that had a very good coach (refugee during WW2 from Hungary who had graduated with a phys ed degree from Springfield, then joined the US Army and organized soccer games in Europe for Army teams). I played as a right wing in the old 2-3-5 formation with a W or M shape up front depending on the situation and the coach's or captain's call.    I was expected to bring the ball up the right side to make a flat cross with my strong foot into the box. unless the defenders on that side gave me some room to move in closer.  I had speed, but I wasn't very big so I had to use my head - soccer is a good game for that.  The coach didn't cut anybody and 70 or so players (almost half the boys in that little high school) came to the first few practices, although probably no more than 20 of them ever played (the same guys who were the starters in basketball and baseball).  The coach rewarded all those who stuck it out the whole season with a bus ride to the last away game.  I played in a summer league in 1964, where I scored my first goal, playing left wing for that coach - on my first run up the side, the biggest player on our HS basketball team flattened me with a chest-to-chest bump.   The next time he fell trying to block me out so I ran by him for an easy shot.
> 
> I played pickup games on the lawns in college (no time for organized sports).  Then a service team on the USS Enterprise 74-75 cruise, then adult-league indoor starting in the 80's.  There used to be a pickup game every Sunday at 8AM in Poway at Arbolitos (unless it was closed, but then you could find the game at Meadowbrook Middle School).
> 
> I didn't really play much defense until the 80's.  I used to be 135 lbs and quick but I found myself going to 180 and still fit enough to play.  It's a different skill set.  You learn how to time a block of another player's kick so the ball ends up going in the direction you desire.  I figured out somewhere along the way that a player with a dominant right foot and not much on his left will turn to his left in a stressful situation, such as receiving a ball when he knows he has a defender on his back.  I'd try to put myself there first, waiting for him.  He's going to play the ball with the inside of his right foot, which will tend to bring the ball to the player's left.
> 
> Easy test for dominant foot - time the player running just around the center circle one way (whichever he prefers) and then around the circle the other way.  Compare times.


That last paragraph should have included "dribbling the ball" instead of "running".


----------



## dad4

espola said:


> That last paragraph should have included "dribbling the ball" instead of "running".


what kind of time ratios do you see?


----------



## eastbaysoccer

Pepperdine brought in a nice class and a very good transfer.  I might have to revise my wcc prediction.

1) pepperdine
2) Santa clara
3) Portland
4) BYU
5) gonzaga

6) San digeo
6) USF
6) Pacific
6) LMU

7) SMC


----------



## MakeAPlay

eastbaysoccer said:


> So outside of the power 5 conference and TOP 20,  what teams could have a breakout season next year?


I like Harvard to have a breakout season.  They have a weak conference and perhaps the best recruiting class to ever grace the Ivy League in women's soccer.  Unfortunately there is little parity in women's soccer.  In my opinion a breakout season is making it to the Sweet 16 and by that metric there were only 3 teams outside of the Power 5 conferences that were able to do that and they were perenial top 25 teams from the WCC a traditionally strong women's soccer conference and South Florida a traditionally strong mid major.  I just don't see that as changing much.  It's really hard to beat a top 8 team on their home field in the playoffs.  Only two teams last season were able to win against top 8 teams on the road during the playoffs.  Wazzu did it twice against Virginia and South Carolina and UCLA did it once against Florida State.  Both teams were in the College Cup....

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Soccerfan2

MakeAPlay said:


> I like Harvard to have a breakout season.  They have a weak conference and perhaps the best recruiting class to ever grace the Ivy League in women's soccer.  Unfortunately there is little parity in women's soccer.  In my opinion a breakout season is making it to the Sweet 16 and by that metric there were only 3 teams outside of the Power 5 conferences that were able to do that and they were perenial top 25 teams from the WCC a traditionally strong women's soccer conference and South Florida a traditionally strong mid major.  I just don't see that as changing much.  It's really hard to beat a top 8 team on their home field in the playoffs.  Only two teams last season were able to win against top 8 teams on the road during the playoffs.  Wazzu did it twice against Virginia and South Carolina and UCLA did it once against Florida State.  Both teams were in the College Cup....
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


Agree with Harvard’s incoming class!


----------



## eastbaysoccer

MakeAPlay said:


> I like Harvard to have a breakout season.  They have a weak conference and perhaps the best recruiting class to ever grace the Ivy League in women's soccer.  Unfortunately there is little parity in women's soccer.  In my opinion a breakout season is making it to the Sweet 16 and by that metric there were only 3 teams outside of the Power 5 conferences that were able to do that and they were perenial top 25 teams from the WCC a traditionally strong women's soccer conference and South Florida a traditionally strong mid major.  I just don't see that as changing much.  It's really hard to beat a top 8 team on their home field in the playoffs.  Only two teams last season were able to win against top 8 teams on the road during the playoffs.  Wazzu did it twice against Virginia and South Carolina and UCLA did it once against Florida State.  Both teams were in the College Cup....
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


Let me modify---teams not in the the preseason top 25.  Clearly if a team is having a break out season they will likely be ranked in the top 25 by season's end.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Go Bruins!!









						Women's Soccer Signs Top Recruiting Class - UCLA
					

UCLA Women's Soccer No. 1 Recruiting Class




					uclabruins.com


----------



## gkrent

MakeAPlay said:


> Go Bruins!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women's Soccer Signs Top Recruiting Class - UCLA
> 
> 
> UCLA Women's Soccer No. 1 Recruiting Class
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uclabruins.com


I've seen the new CB play quite a bit and she reminds me a lot of a CB who just graduated.....


----------



## Ellejustus

MakeAPlay said:


> Go Bruins!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women's Soccer Signs Top Recruiting Class - UCLA
> 
> 
> UCLA Women's Soccer No. 1 Recruiting Class
> 
> 
> 
> 
> uclabruins.com


Very nice class.  My dd had the honor and privilege to play with RT.  Watch out for her


----------



## Simisoccerfan

What is the over under on how many of these girls actually see any substantial playing time in their careers?


----------



## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> What is the over under on how many of these girls actually see any substantial playing time in their careers?


Any of them that can help them win games will play.  The class that they replaced (2016) was also ranked #1.  Six starters left so there are plenty of opportunities to play.  Let me give you an example.  My daughter had 8 players in her recruiting class and every one of them save two played significant minutes.  One of the two was Mal Pugh and she obviously didn't suit up for a regular season game.  My player was the lowest ranked domestic player in her recruiting class yet she ended up starting the most games and playing the most minutes of any of them.  My point is that ANY of these players that has the heart, courage and the willingness to make it happen can make it happen.


----------



## kickingandscreaming

Simisoccerfan said:


> What is the over under on how many of these girls actually see any substantial playing time in their careers?


Wow, that does seem like a lot for one class. How many scholarships would a Division I women's soccer team have? I vaguely remember something like 14 total. Whatever the case, all the ladies will get an exceptional education on a great campus. Congrats to them.


----------



## Dubs

kickingandscreaming said:


> Wow, that does seem like a lot for one class. How many scholarships would a Division I women's soccer team have? I vaguely remember something like 14 total. Whatever the case, all the ladies will get an exceptional education on a great campus. Congrats to them.


The 14 scholarships are split up amongst the full roster.  This has been said before many times, but it is rare that any player gets 100%.  Most have it split up in increments/percentages throughout their 4 years.  Many get $0


----------



## Kicker4Life

espola said:


> "had no left" doesn't mean "can't go to your left".


You can “go left” all day....as a defender if I know you have no left footed shot, I’ll let you go left all day cause you’ll just keep going with zero threat of a difficult shot for my keeper to handle.  You have to cut back to your right (where I’ll be waiting) or push further out left.

oh Magoo, I loved playing against guys like you.


----------



## Ellejustus

Dubs said:


> The 14 scholarships are split up amongst the full roster.  This has been said before many times, but it is rare that any player gets 100%.  Most have it split up in increments/percentages throughout their 4 years.  Many get $0


Getting into UCLA is a dream come true for many.  I'm happy for all the players and I hope UCLA wins it all!!!


----------



## Copa9

Simisoccerfan said:


> What is the over under on how many of these girls actually see any substantial playing time in their careers?


Having that many recruits helps to raise the gpa of the team especially if their top 5-6 recruits have a lower gpa.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Dubs said:


> The 14 scholarships are split up amongst the full roster.  This has been said before many times, but it is rare that any player gets 100%.  Most have it split up in increments/percentages throughout their 4 years.  Many get $0


Correct.  A players deal tends to reflect how much the coach thinks about them.  That does not always correspond to a player's TDS rankings.  I spent less for my kid's college degree than I spent on U16 ECNL soccer.....

Good luck to you and your player.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Copa9 said:


> Having that many recruits helps to raise the gpa of the team especially if their top 5-6 recruits have a lower gpa.


I don't believe they are playing gpa games.  All of the women on the team are smart.  Just 14 is a lot.  I looked at the roster and last year they list 11 freshmen.  8 got playing time and 3 redshirted.  So UCLA does a good job of getting freshmen in to the game but next year there will be 17 of them.  Hard to see how to get 17 first year players time.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Simisoccerfan said:


> I don't believe they are playing gpa games.  All of the women on the team are smart.  Just 14 is a lot.  I looked at the roster and last year they list 11 freshmen.  8 got playing time and 3 redshirted.  So UCLA does a good job of getting freshmen in to the game but next year there will be 17 of them.  Hard to see how to get 17 first year players time.


You aren't wrong about the math.  I think that the most players that I saw get into an actual game (not a scrimmage) was 21 or 22.  I have seen games where the coach only starts 2 or 3 regular starters and they play only 30-45 minutes.   The coaching staff there does an amazing job of roster management.  You get very few disgruntled people because everyone that has the ability to help the team win games will get the chance.  Now the minutes may be limited but that is what you get when you go to a top 5 program.  Also, the players train together so at a school like that people know where they stand in the pecking order.

Assuming that the full season happens, this is a good time to be a freshman at UCLA.  6 starters and a key reserve that accounted for over 10,000 minutes last year collectively are gone.  That is a great opportunity for any freshman that wants to make an impact.

Good luck to you and your player this season.


----------



## MakeAPlay

Copa9 said:


> Having that many recruits helps to raise the gpa of the team especially if their top 5-6 recruits have a lower gpa.


Most of the players including the top recruits are going to be 3.6 and above and many will be 3.8 and above.  I can only think of one player that was recruited by UCLA that wasn't at least a 3.6.  It isn't a good idea to put an average student into a school like UCLA/Stanford/Duke/Cal etc. because they are rigorous academic schools and not being able to keep up is an actual thing.

Most of the girls on the team do well in school and make the Director's Honor Roll.  You know how it is with female athletes.  They have to work twice as hard and be twice as good academically for half as much recognition....


----------



## gotothebushes

MakeAPlay said:


> I like Harvard to have a breakout season.  They have a weak conference and perhaps the best recruiting class to ever grace the Ivy League in women's soccer.  Unfortunately there is little parity in women's soccer.  In my opinion a breakout season is making it to the Sweet 16 and by that metric there were only 3 teams outside of the Power 5 conferences that were able to do that and they were perenial top 25 teams from the WCC a traditionally strong women's soccer conference and South Florida a traditionally strong mid major.  I just don't see that as changing much.  It's really hard to beat a top 8 team on their home field in the playoffs.  Only two teams last season were able to win against top 8 teams on the road during the playoffs.  Wazzu did it twice against Virginia and South Carolina and UCLA did it once against Florida State.  Both teams were in the College Cup....
> 
> Good luck to you and your player.


 Map I would have to agree with you with Harvard. There recruiting class is becoming stronger every year. This is a team you can't sleep on with big name recruits coming in. Hopefully we have a season.


----------



## MakeAPlay

gotothebushes said:


> Map I would have to agree with you with Harvard. There recruiting class is becoming stronger every year. This is a team you can't sleep on with big name recruits coming in. Hopefully we have a season.


I love that arguably the top university in the world is able to pull in such a strong recruiting class.


----------



## espola

MakeAPlay said:


> I love that arguably the top university in the world is able to pull in such a strong recruiting class.


I assume you mean Harvard, and not Princeton or Oxford.  Given that, Harvard follows the Ivy League principle that if you can get in, the well-endowed financial aid system will make it affordable for your family.  And (another Ivy League principle) - if you can qualify in ways other than straight academic, you can get in.


----------



## Copa9

espola said:


> I assume you mean Harvard, and not Princeton or Oxford.  Given that, Harvard follows the Ivy League principle that if you can get in, the well-endowed financial aid system will make it affordable for your family.  And (another Ivy League principle) - if you can qualify in ways other than straight academic, you can get in.


It's all need base assistance.  Unfortunately if you live in California your income doesn't go as far as if you live in Ohio, Kansas, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Georgia etc. etc. etc.


----------



## Mystery Train

MakeAPlay said:


> I love that arguably the top university in the world is able to pull in such a strong recruiting class.


My DD knows both of those SoCal products... nice to see such hard work paying off for these young women.


----------



## espola

Copa9 said:


> It's all need base assistance.  Unfortunately if you live in California your income doesn't go as far as if you live in Ohio, Kansas, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Georgia etc. etc. etc.


As I recall from similar applications, that is factored in.


----------



## Zen

espola said:


> As I recall from similar applications, that is factored in.


Curious...is anyone aware of any top IVY league athletes who were able to receive tuition assistance somehow, AND family does not qualify for need based help?  I agree living in Cali makes it harder.  Using the financial aid calculator, we qualify for zero help...but we are by no means rich.  

I know Ivies don't provide athletic scholarships.  I'm curious if there is an endowment or other means anyone is aware of to help top athletes with hefty Ivy tuition.


----------



## espola

Zen said:


> Curious...is anyone aware of any top IVY league athletes who were able to receive tuition assistance somehow, AND family does not qualify for need based help?  I agree living in Cali makes it harder.  Using the financial aid calculator, we qualify for zero help...but we are by no means rich.
> 
> I know Ivies don't provide athletic scholarships.  I'm curious if there is an endowment or other means anyone is aware of to help top athletes with hefty Ivy tuition.


There are lots of scholarship programs out there, and if a student-athlete is not receiving any "athletic" money, many of the NCAA restrictions don't apply.


----------



## Copa9

Not as much as we expected.  I guess it all comes down to how much you are willing to pay.  What they offered was a lot but still not enough, room and board is very high especially at the Ivies and which Ivy you are looking at. Always look at what you would owe and what your family would have to pay for all four years. Interesting note, Stanford will no longer consider the value of parents home in figuring need, really important for California homeowners. As always, a great education is available at many colleges and in the end it is what you do with your education after graduation that matters.


----------



## espola

Copa9 said:


> Not as much as we expected.  I guess it all comes down to how much you are willing to pay.  What they offered was a lot but still not enough, room and board is very high especially at the Ivies and which Ivy you are looking at. Always look at what you would owe and what your family would have to pay for all four years. Interesting note, Stanford will no longer consider the value of parents home in figuring need, really important for California homeowners. As always, a great education is available at many colleges and in the end it is what you do with your education after graduation that matters.


I went to two colleges for free, even after dropping out of the first one.  The first was academic, the second GI Bill (half-time monthly VA payment was more than semester tuition and fees at SDSU).


----------



## Dubs

Zen said:


> Curious...is anyone aware of any top IVY league athletes who were able to receive tuition assistance somehow, AND family does not qualify for need based help?  I agree living in Cali makes it harder.  Using the financial aid calculator, we qualify for zero help...but we are by no means rich.
> 
> I know Ivies don't provide athletic scholarships.  I'm curious if there is an endowment or other means anyone is aware of to help top athletes with hefty Ivy tuition.


Great question.. I always wondered this as well.


----------



## vegasguy

Zen said:


> Curious...is anyone aware of any top IVY league athletes who were able to receive tuition assistance somehow, AND family does not qualify for need based help?  I agree living in Cali makes it harder.  Using the financial aid calculator, we qualify for zero help...but we are by no means rich.
> 
> I know Ivies don't provide athletic scholarships.  I'm curious if there is an endowment or other means anyone is aware of to help top athletes with hefty Ivy tuition.



Ivy endowments are large for the most part.  I believe if your household income is less than $168k there is an opportunity at a ton of merit money.  I believe the scale slides from that number.  The IVY philosophy is why should money get in the way of a student we think can contribute and we think is acceptable.


----------



## Ellejustus

vegasguy said:


> Ivy endowments are large for the most part.  I believe if your household income is less than $168k there is an opportunity at a ton of merit money.  I believe the scale slides from that number.  The IVY philosophy is why should money get in the way of a student we think can contribute and we think is acceptable.


----------



## Soccer43

vegasguy said:


> Ivy endowments are large for the most part.  I believe if your household income is less than $168k there is an opportunity at a ton of merit money.  I believe the scale slides from that number.  The IVY philosophy is why should money get in the way of a student we think can contribute and we think is acceptable.


That was our experience as well.


----------



## TOSDCI

I am wondering if there will a lot of 2021 and 2020 players that will decommit from their chosen university due to the current coronovirus situation as well as the security concerns due to the protests.  Will those students that are already at the university chose not to come back because of the same issues?  If I had a DD attending U of Minnesota, I would be thinking long and hard about paying for another year until they figure out that situation.  Thoughts?


----------



## Ellejustus

TOSDCI said:


> I am wondering if there will a lot of 2021 and 2020 players that will decommit from their chosen university due to the current coronovirus situation as well as the security concerns due to the protests.  Will those students that are already at the university chose not to come back because of the same issues?  If I had a DD attending U of Minnesota, I would be thinking long and hard about paying for another year until they figure out that situation.  Thoughts?


SDSU is allowing Fr and Soph to live on campus.  However, only lab classes offered in person.  All my sons classes will be only offered online so he has decided to sit this semester out and work and learn how to surf.  He's super bummed out but oh well he says. The flu was bad last year in his housing so he can imagine what that will be like this year.  Hopefully Spring Semester will be opened up.  His old roommate sister was incoming Fr and has decided to travel for a year.....


----------



## dk_b

TOSDCI said:


> I am wondering if there will a lot of 2021 and 2020 players that will decommit from their chosen university due to the current coronovirus situation as well as the security concerns due to the protests.  Will those students that are already at the university chose not to come back because of the same issues?  If I had a DD attending U of Minnesota, I would be thinking long and hard about paying for another year until they figure out that situation.  Thoughts?


If my kid were not playing soccer, I'd have her take a gap year, b/c I would not want to pay full freight for something that may not "look like" college. I am not sure that she'd be any safer at home - she'd be more bored, restless, etc. - than she will be at school where she probably will have better access to testing, more structure and, in many ways, more active support than a home environment can provide.  It also will not be a typical "gap year" for kids who do that b/c if college is not perceived as safe, what else will be?  That is, would I be comfortable with my kid working abroad for a year or getting a job or doing public service here?  As of now, my kid's school (in the Pac12) will have in-person instruction and likely remote learning as well.  Like everyone else, we are waiting to hear what the sports situation will be and expect that it will be something a bit more truncated than what we'd have expected.  Though I think that I'd prefer a truncated season to no season, even if eligibility is fully maintained.  If the season is shit-canned, I anticipate that a LOT of HS class of 2021 verbals will be pulled and/or deferred (which will have a cascading effect) since the HS class of 2020 now have signed NLIs, binding agreements that require scholarship levels be maintained.


----------



## Dubs

dk_b said:


> If my kid were not playing soccer, I'd have her take a gap year, b/c I would not want to pay full freight for something that may not "look like" college. I am not sure that she'd be any safer at home - she'd be more bored, restless, etc. - than she will be at school where she probably will have better access to testing, more structure and, in many ways, more active support than a home environment can provide.  It also will not be a typical "gap year" for kids who do that b/c if college is not perceived as safe, what else will be?  That is, would I be comfortable with my kid working abroad for a year or getting a job or doing public service here?  As of now, my kid's school (in the Pac12) will have in-person instruction and likely remote learning as well.  Like everyone else, we are waiting to hear what the sports situation will be and expect that it will be something a bit more truncated than what we'd have expected.  Though I think that I'd prefer a truncated season to no season, even if eligibility is fully maintained.  If the season is shit-canned, I anticipate that a LOT of HS class of 2021 verbals will be pulled and/or deferred (which will have a cascading effect) since the HS class of 2020 now have signed NLIs, binding agreements that require scholarship levels be maintained.


I sincerely hope the second part of what you said does not come to pass.   That would be unbelievably horrible.  How would that even work in your estimation, in terms of them pulling verbals?  NLIs for 2021s can be signed in November.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Everything hinges upon football and what happens with that revenue stream.   The incoming soccer class's scholarships are protected.  All future classes could be impacted.


----------



## dk_b

Dubs said:


> I sincerely hope the second part of what you said does not come to pass.   That would be unbelievably horrible.  How would that even work in your estimation, in terms of them pulling verbals?  NLIs for 2021s can be signed in November.


I hope that does not come to pass but here is how I think this could happen: if the season is cancelled (like spring sports were) and if all players did not lose eligibility, schools have a conundrum of some players under binding financial agreements (NLIs) and other players w/o binding commitments.  Whatever # of scholarships that are available is a function of the NCAA (14/year) and the school (not all schools fully fund 14 scholarships) - the NCAA increases the total # for a year or a period of time (b/c of 5th year seniors in 2021), that does not mean that all schools will fully fund the larger # of scholarships.  So what is the school to do?  They can't boot players who have binding agreements - well, they can from the roster but that does not free up $$$ - and they may not be able to honor all "commitments" b/c the $$$ is not there or b/c the NCAA won't allow that # of scholarships (or both).  So I'd expect them to look to players under verbals to change the award amounts or to decommit players.  If all the schools are doing it - or a large # of schools - there won't be the negative implication of schools decommitting players (or at least not as concentrated).

It all changes after NLIs are signed but I'd expect that November date to change if the fall season is cancelled (just as the recruiting rules have been changing) and it would not surprise me if that date changes in any event (remember, that Nov date is relatively new - was last year or the year before, the first time?). If the fall season is not cancelled, I don't see the NCAA accommodating specific schools who may not participate and I would not expect changes (dropping verbals, for example, or changing levels of award in the verbal offers) for schools who do participate but those schools that do no participate may elect to redshirt seniors they want back and that may create larger rosters and create a challenge to accomdoate current high school players.


----------



## MMMM

That all sounds right to me. The 2021s are in a tough spot, especially any 2021s who don’t yet have a verbal.  2022s may be not much better.


----------



## Dubs

dk_b said:


> I hope that does not come to pass but here is how I think this could happen: if the season is cancelled (like spring sports were) and if all players did not lose eligibility, schools have a conundrum of some players under binding financial agreements (NLIs) and other players w/o binding commitments.  Whatever # of scholarships that are available is a function of the NCAA (14/year) and the school (not all schools fully fund 14 scholarships) - the NCAA increases the total # for a year or a period of time (b/c of 5th year seniors in 2021), that does not mean that all schools will fully fund the larger # of scholarships.  So what is the school to do?  They can't boot players who have binding agreements - well, they can from the roster but that does not free up $$$ - and they may not be able to honor all "commitments" b/c the $$$ is not there or b/c the NCAA won't allow that # of scholarships (or both).  So I'd expect them to look to players under verbals to change the award amounts or to decommit players.  If all the schools are doing it - or a large # of schools - there won't be the negative implication of schools decommitting players (or at least not as concentrated).
> 
> It all changes after NLIs are signed but I'd expect that November date to change if the fall season is cancelled (just as the recruiting rules have been changing) and it would not surprise me if that date changes in any event (remember, that Nov date is relatively new - was last year or the year before, the first time?). If the fall season is not cancelled, I don't see the NCAA accommodating specific schools who may not participate and I would not expect changes (dropping verbals, for example, or changing levels of award in the verbal offers) for schools who do participate but those schools that do no participate may elect to redshirt seniors they want back and that may create larger rosters and create a challenge to accomdoate current high school players.


Makes sense.  I do believe there will be a season and as Simi says, Football is critical.  My DD is also a PAC 12 comit and I think Power 5 is probably doing everything they can to have a season and honor their current verbal recruits.


----------



## beachbum

dk_b said:


> If my kid were not playing soccer, I'd have her take a gap year, b/c I would not want to pay full freight for something that may not "look like" college. I am not sure that she'd be any safer at home - she'd be more bored, restless, etc. - than she will be at school where she probably will have better access to testing, more structure and, in many ways, more active support than a home environment can provide.  It also will not be a typical "gap year" for kids who do that b/c if college is not perceived as safe, what else will be?  That is, would I be comfortable with my kid working abroad for a year or getting a job or doing public service here?  As of now, my kid's school (in the Pac12) will have in-person instruction and likely remote learning as well.  Like everyone else, we are waiting to hear what the sports situation will be and expect that it will be something a bit more truncated than what we'd have expected.  Though I think that I'd prefer a truncated season to no season, even if eligibility is fully maintained.  If the season is shit-canned, I anticipate that a LOT of HS class of 2021 verbals will be pulled and/or deferred (which will have a cascading effect) since the HS class of 2020 now have signed NLIs, binding agreements that require scholarship levels be maintained.


The word we are getting is that the season is on in full but some games have been switched due to travel restrictions of some colleges.  Football and basketball players already in town and soccer reports 1st of July for 7 day quarantine then "voluntary" work outs.  If some states don't open, those games may be canceled as well.


----------



## dk_b

beachbum said:


> The word we are getting is that the season is on in full but some games have been switched due to travel restrictions of some colleges.  Football and basketball players already in town and soccer reports 1st of July for 7 day quarantine then "voluntary" work outs.  If some states don't open, those games may be canceled as well.


Definitely looking more promising now.  And gotta believe that schools with football (esp power 5 w/solid TV contracts) will do everything they can to have those games - as @Dubs was suggesting - as that would be a huge budget loss (I wonder if it will destroy certain programs).  The NCAA also is likely cr*pping in their pants - losing football revenue after losing March Madness . . . that would be an enormous hit to the bottom line.  Maybe drop the football scholarship number from 63 (or whatever the # is) to, say, 50 (still would be 2-deep on O and D + 6 special teams or "other") and see how that impacts the budget.


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## eastbaysoccer

agree that colleges cut football scholarships for 2-4 years and then reinstate them.  However that would mean reducing the number of scholarships in womens sports too.  Not a good time to be a sophomore or below when it comes to securing an athletic scholarship.


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## eastbaysoccer

NEWS: SMU athletics is requiring all student-athletes to sign a COVID-19 waiver before returning for voluntary workouts. 

It requires student-athletes to release SMU from future liability.

The Dallas Morning News obtained a copy of the contract.

So with that said,  will colleges be liable for voluntary soccer team work outs if there is a COVID outbreak?  We all know coaches organize this underground but say it’s “optional”.  How would this play out in court?  Clearly SMU has some concerns hence the waiver.


----------



## Kicker4Life

eastbaysoccer said:


> NEWS: SMU athletics is requiring all student-athletes to sign a COVID-19 waiver before returning for voluntary workouts.
> 
> It requires student-athletes to release SMU from future liability.
> 
> The Dallas Morning News obtained a copy of the contract.
> 
> So with that said,  will colleges be liable for voluntary soccer team work outs if there is a COVID outbreak?  We all know coaches organize this underground but say it’s “optional”.  How would this play out in court?  Clearly SMU has some concerns hence the waiver.


In today’s litigious society does this surprise you?


----------



## Woobie06

Not one bit...clubs are doing it, businesses are doing it...the University’s can’t control what every student athlete does or for that matter what every student does on their own time, what the employees do, etc.  It is an unreasonable expectation. The University’s and Athletic Programs are going to do their part with the correct protocols as best they can, it won’t be perfect, and their will be gaps, and yes some student/athletes will get infected.  The fact is the kids don’t have to go to college or play college sports.  Service providers and businesses can’t be responsible for Covid, the Flu, or anything of the like.  The Federal, State, and Local Government is not responsible for Covid, the Flu, etc.  If the young adult wants to participate they are going to have to roll the dice.  I get people want somebody to be responsible if they or their loved one gets infected, but there really is not anybody to blame but yourself.  If you want 100% assurance you will not catch Covid, stay isolated, do not interact with others, and bunker down. #hermitlife


----------



## Ellejustus

I've been rolling the dice my hole life.  I jumped off a 70 foot cliff when I was 11 into the ocean.  I was youngest ever at the Bay to do it.  I rolled the dice hitch hiking and I swear one of those crazy killers in Socal picked me up when I was 14.  Dude starting some crap on me and I jumped out on PCH, no joke. I roll the dice because that's life.  Let's roll the dice and let the kiddos play some soccer.  I like her chances in this roll.


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## MacDre

Woobie06 said:


> Not one bit...clubs are doing it, businesses are doing it...the University’s can’t control what every student athlete does or for that matter what every student does on their own time, what the employees do, etc.  It is an unreasonable expectation. The University’s and Athletic Programs are going to do their part with the correct protocols as best they can, it won’t be perfect, and their will be gaps, and yes some student/athletes will get infected.  The fact is the kids don’t have to go to college or play college sports.  Service providers and businesses can’t be responsible for Covid, the Flu, or anything of the like.  The Federal, State, and Local Government is not responsible for Covid, the Flu, etc.  If the young adult wants to participate they are going to have to roll the dice.  I get people want somebody to be responsible if they or their loved one gets infected, but there really is not anybody to blame but yourself.  If you want 100% assurance you will not catch Covid, stay isolated, do not interact with others, and bunker down. #hermitlife


I agree.  But the “ambulance chaser” in me could have lots of fun playing with theories of negligence, misrepresentation, and fraud in the inducement if a clients kid gets sick.  Has to be very scary times for youth sports.


----------



## Woobie06

MacDre said:


> I agree.  But the “ambulance chaser” in me could have lots of fun playing with theories of negligence, misrepresentation, and fraud in the inducement if a clients kid gets sick.  Has to be very scary times for youth sports.


I agree there will be “ambulance chasing”.  It’s a shame.  Only takes a few to bring it down for everyone.  Costs go up, less opportunities as organizations and businesses need more to defend lawsuits or they won’t take the risk at all.  I have never heard of anybody suing over catching the flu (Covid is obviously different and more dangerous), but who knows?  I’m sure somebody will give it a go.


----------



## Copa9

dk_b said:


> I hope that does not come to pass but here is how I think this could happen: if the season is cancelled (like spring sports were) and if all players did not lose eligibility, schools have a conundrum of some players under binding financial agreements (NLIs) and other players w/o binding commitments.  Whatever # of scholarships that are available is a function of the NCAA (14/year) and the school (not all schools fully fund 14 scholarships) - the NCAA increases the total # for a year or a period of time (b/c of 5th year seniors in 2021), that does not mean that all schools will fully fund the larger # of scholarships.  So what is the school to do?  They can't boot players who have binding agreements - well, they can from the roster but that does not free up $$$ - and they may not be able to honor all "commitments" b/c the $$$ is not there or b/c the NCAA won't allow that # of scholarships (or both).  So I'd expect them to look to players under verbals to change the award amounts or to decommit players.  If all the schools are doing it - or a large # of schools - there won't be the negative implication of schools decommitting players (or at least not as concentrated).
> 
> It all changes after NLIs are signed but I'd expect that November date to change if the fall season is cancelled (just as the recruiting rules have been changing) and it would not surprise me if that date changes in any event (remember, that Nov date is relatively new - was last year or the year before, the first time?). If the fall season is not cancelled, I don't see the NCAA accommodating specific schools who may not participate and I would not expect changes (dropping verbals, for example, or changing levels of award in the verbal offers) for schools who do participate but those schools that do no participate may elect to redshirt seniors they want back and that may create larger rosters and create a challenge to accomdoate current high school players.


Don't forget, most of the D1 schools and many of the D2 and D3  schools have huge endowments.  I don't see them back tracking too much on offers, they still need players if they have the sport.  A lot of players might decommit if they do not get what was verbally offered because they need those resources to attend that university. It is going to be interesting to see what happens from the classroom to the field.


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## Ellejustus

I've been advocating no GPA, no math outside of financial responsibility ((who was teaching that class to us in America?)) and SAT/ACT to determined ones self worth.  Biggest BS taught to all of us.


----------



## dk_b

Copa9 said:


> Don't forget, most of the D1 schools and many of the D2 and D3  schools have huge endowments.  I don't see them back tracking too much on offers, they still need players if they have the sport.  A lot of players might decommit if they do not get what was verbally offered because they need those resources to attend that university. It is going to be interesting to see what happens from the classroom to the field.


Let's say there is no season for a team with a squad of 26 players - 8 frosh, 7 sophs, 6 jrs and 5 srs - and the NCAA permits the seniors to return even if they've already used a red shirt year and let's say 3 of those 5 choose to return and there is less attrition from the underclass players.  Do the math - there just are not as many slots for a recruiting class of 8 players (or 5 or 12).  It's a logjam that would be created so something would need to give.

As I have written, I hope it does not come to that as I hope there is a season (assuming it can be played safely).

Not sure the large endowments will matter as this will be a function of NCAA rules and then what a specific athletic department is permitted under its budget. With an academic year (at least the fall term) with fewer students enrolled, I'd expect budget shortfalls to be common and if institutions are dipping into their endowments, I don't imagine that athletic departments will be that high on the list of priorities (even if allowed), and certainly the minor sports will suffer more.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Ellejustus said:


> I've been advocating no GPA, no math outside of financial responsibility ((who was teaching that class to us in America?)) and SAT/ACT to determined ones self worth.  Biggest BS taught to all of us.


Having an Engineering Degree and being an Engineering Manager I can not disagree with you more about the no math requirement.  It's not the actual math that is valuable, it is that you have proven the ability to master a difficult subject.  It teaches how to solve complex problems and what is life but a complex problem?


----------



## Desert Hound

Simisoccerfan said:


> It teaches how to solve complex problems and what is life but a complex problem?


It also allows one to understand that "free college, free healthcare" and other goodies offered up cannot possibly be free. 

Math is very important.


----------



## Ellejustus

Simisoccerfan said:


> Having an Engineering Degree and being an Engineering Manager I can not disagree with you more about the no math requirement.  It's not the actual math that is valuable, it is that you have proven the ability to master a difficult subject.  It teaches how to solve complex problems and what is life but a complex problem?


Its the mistreatment and placement of kids when their young, especially rambunctious teenagers.  math is important only to the ones it's important.  it causes the most anxiety and stress on the average student and it makes many feel defeated and stupid all because some folks have to be an Engineer or a math teacher or a super smart geek.  You will see exactly what I'm talking about very soon.  These kids have been forced to go into debt and get out with a house payment and no house.  Now, no job either.  The days of, "you better go to college if you want to make something of yourself" is over everyone. It's now just one of many choices one can make.  Choices is what this great country is about imo.  I love college btw, just not the way it was sold to all of us.


----------



## dk_b

Simisoccerfan said:


> Having an Engineering Degree and being an Engineering Manager I can not disagree with you more about the no math requirement.  It's not the actual math that is valuable, it is that you have proven the ability to master a difficult subject.  It teaches how to solve complex problems and what is life but a complex problem?


I loved math as a teen but did not study in college (my degree is in the humanities and my graduate work did not require math).  But I use math all the time.  And when I cook with my kids, we use algebra all the time - you are constantly solving for "x" as you scale recipes (in fact, in my area of practice, I run capitalization models with different variables and am using math nearly every day). While I'd like my kids to learn the foundational properties of physics, chemistry and biology, I'd like them to have a very high fluency in math as that skill is practical to every day living.


----------



## Woobie06

Ellejustus said:


> Its the mistreatment and placement of kids when their young, especially rambunctious teenagers.  math is important only to the ones it's important.  it causes the most anxiety and stress on the average student and it makes many feel defeated and stupid all because some folks have to be an Engineer or a math teacher or a super smart geek.  You will see exactly what I'm talking about very soon.  These kids have been forced to go into debt and get out with a house payment and no house.  Now, no job either.  The days of, "you better go to college if you want to make something of yourself" is over everyone. It's now just one of many choices one can make.  Choices is what this great country is about imo.  I love college btw, just not the way it was sold to all of us.


I disagree with “math is only important to those it’s important to.”  You NEED math in life.  Big time.  Like others have mentioned - mastering a difficult subject, problem solving, critical thinking, just the basics...The stress you mentioned gets amplified as they get older when they don’t have the basic tools/skills to figure out the time value of money, interest on a home or vehicle loan, how investments work...they can’t interpret data, the list goes on and on.  Ignorance is the poorest of excuses.  They are just kicking the can down the road and parents let them.  These young adults will be unprepared, make poor financial decisions, and many can’t even understand the student loans they have taken out and the repayment model.  I have nieces and nephews who fit this description to a T.

If they don’t want to deal with the concepts when it is time and they want to defer or ignore they shouldn’t complain when they don’t get the same opportunities others get.  Math matters.  You don’t have to like math, be good at it, or have it be your favorite subject.  You just need to be committed to work on it (2020 Disclaimer...my underlying assumption is that the individual/situation I am describing has no mental hardships, learning disabilities, family problems, negative life events or the like.  Don’t know who you will trigger these days).


----------



## Ellejustus

Woobie06 said:


> I disagree with “math is only important to those it’s important to.”  *You NEED math in life.  Big time*.  Like others have mentioned - mastering a difficult subject, problem solving, critical thinking, just the basics...The stress you mentioned gets amplified as they get older when they don’t have the basic tools/skills to figure out the time value of money, interest on a home or vehicle loan, how investments work...they can’t interpret data, the list goes on and on.  Ignorance is the poorest of excuses.  They are just kicking the can down the road and parents let them.  These young adults will be unprepared, make poor financial decisions, and many can’t even understand the student loans they have taken out and the repayment model.  I have nieces and nephews who fit this description to a T.
> 
> If they don’t want to deal with the concepts when it is time and they want to defer or ignore they shouldn’t complain when they don’t get the same opportunities others get. * Math matters.*  You don’t have to like math, be good at it, or have it be your favorite subject.  You just need to be committed to work on it (2020 Disclaimer...my underlying assumption is that the individual/situation I am describing has no mental hardships, learning disabilities, family problems, negative life events or the like.  Don’t know who you will trigger these days).


*What kind of Math Matters Big Time? * Is their a level we can agree on at least for the average person not going to college or wants to do something in college that only basic math is required?  Not all brains work well in math, you catch my drift?  Just because one can read and write and count to 10 does not make them better then the other kids locked out of the system.  I said this before and I wont say it again.  The kind of basic math I'm promoting is how to save your money, how to protect yourself from scam artists and how to save some more money and balance a check book and work hard saving even more and not go into debt if at all possible.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

By 
Robert Longley

Updated October 20, 2019
How much more is higher education worth in cold hard money than a high school diploma? Plenty.

Men with a graduate degree earned more than $1.5 million in lifetime earnings than those with just a high school diploma, according to 2015 statistics from the Social Security Administration. Women earn $1.1 million more.

A previous report by U.S. Census Bureau titled "The Big Payoff: Educational Attainment and Synthetic Estimates of Work-Life Earnings" noted:



> "The large differences in average work-life earnings among the educational levels reflect both differential starting salaries and also disparate earnings trajectories, that is, the path of earnings over one’s life."


The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) figures from 2017 show median weekly wages progressively increasing with educational attainment:


*Professional degree:* $1,836
*Doctoral degree: *$1,743
*Master's degree: *$1,401
*Bachelor's degree: *$1,173
*Associate's degree: *$836
*Some college, no degree:* $774
*High school diploma, no college:* $712
*Less than a high school diploma: *$520

"At most ages, more education equates with higher earnings, and the payoff is most notable at the highest educational levels," said Jennifer Cheeseman Day, co-author of the report.

*Who Earns the Most?*
It's not surprising that doctors and engineers do best. According to the BLS, anesthesiologists, surgeons, obstetrician-gynecologists, orthodontists, and psychiatrists all make well over $200,000 a year. Even general physicians, chief executives, dentists, nurse anesthetists, pilots and flight engineers, and petroleum engineers all make $175,000–$200,000.

Still in the six-figure category are: information system managers, podiatrists, architectural and engineering managers, marketing managers, financial managers, attorneys, sales managers, natural sciences managers, and compensation and benefits managers.

Of course, most people pursue their passion rather than the dollar when looking at career options, though earning potential is often a factor for many.


----------



## Simisoccerfan

That is why math matters.  You don't get any of those degrees without math.


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## Ellejustus

Simisoccerfan said:


> That is why math matters.  You don't get any of those degrees without math.


And what U to you work for....lol?????  This is old news and that data you can throw out the window.  In 10 years I will be write and you will be wrong. Would you want to make a bet?  How much debt to people owe for college in this country?  Math matters especially when you owe so much money and you cant find a job.  Imagine that.  Trade schools are killing it btw and you dont need to know geometry or Trig to make a buck in life anymore or a lot of bucks for that matter.  Plus, if you can play hoops you should be able to skip college and go to the NBA.  Who the hell put that rule in place? And why?


----------



## Simisoccerfan

Wow!  All I can say is good luck!


----------



## Kicker4Life

Ellejustus said:


> And what U to you work for....lol?????  This is old news and that data you can throw out the window.  In 10 years I will be write and you will be wrong. Would you want to make a bet?  How much debt to people owe for college in this country?  Math matters especially when you owe so much money and you cant find a job.  Imagine that.  Trade schools are killing it btw and you dont need to know geometry or Trig to make a buck in life anymore or a lot of bucks for that matter.  Plus, if you can play hoops you should be able to skip college and go to the NBA.  Who the hell put that rule in place? And why?


I don’t know a carpenter that doesn’t know geometry or a plumber who doesn’t know algebra.  

Even “blue collar” jobs require mathematical problem solving.


----------



## Ellejustus

Kicker4Life said:


> I don’t know a carpenter that doesn’t know geometry or a plumber who doesn’t know algebra.
> 
> Even “blue collar” jobs require mathematical problem solving.


What is wrong with all you about math and forcing it for two years in college?  I'm talking about basic math, not two years of stuff you wont remember and it keeps smart cats out of some schools because it bring your score ((GPA down)) down.  Unless you cheat like so many out there you get away with it.  If A=B and C is T, then what the Hell is Z?  A+9=11?  OK. enough with math.


----------



## Ellejustus

I want to give a shout out to my liberal arts math teacher at Rio Hondo College back in 90'.  Without his grace on curve grading I would have not been excepted into Cal Poly.  You see, I hated math and was really rebellious about it and its still coming out.  The pain I have. I'm so good with numbers I do them all in my head.  I'm not kidding.  I am gifted.  However, I thought I could sneak into Cal Poly without the math requirement of college level Algebra,  I was so mad.  i already was excepted but had to complete my freaking math requirement....oh oh I said.  Anyway, based on my test, she said i need to take basic algebra and then take Algebra II. This was Spring Semester too and Cal Poly was September.  I was in a deliema.  I swear I prayed for help.  Please help.  Guess what.  I took liberal arts math class in the summer, which was equivalent to Algebra II.  A class in summer school one night a week.  This teacher comes in saddles, shorts and Hawaiian shirt.  Super liberal and said the following: "if you try and come to class and take all my test, you will get a C, no matter what your overall score."  i got a 50% and dude gave me a B.  I swear this is the hole truth and nothing but the truth."  I didnt need no college level algebra to be a success in life.


----------



## 3thatplay

Ellejustus said:


> I want to give a shout out to my liberal arts math teacher at Rio Hondo College back in 90'.  Without his grace on curve grading I would have not been excepted into Cal Poly.  You see, I hated math and was really rebellious about it and its still coming out.  The pain I have. I'm so good with numbers I do them all in my head.  I'm not kidding.  I am gifted.  However, I thought I could sneak into Cal Poly without the math requirement of college level Algebra,  I was so mad.  i already was excepted but had to complete my freaking math requirement....oh oh I said.  Anyway, based on my test, she said i need to take basic algebra and then take Algebra II. This was Spring Semester too and Cal Poly was September.  I was in a deliema.  I swear I prayed for help.  Please help.  Guess what.  I took liberal arts math class in the summer, which was equivalent to Algebra II.  A class in summer school one night a week.  This teacher comes in saddles, shorts and Hawaiian shirt.  Super liberal and said the following: "if you try and come to class and take all my test, you will get a C, no matter what your overall score."  i got a 50% and dude gave me a B.  I swear this is the hole truth and nothing but the truth."  I didnt need no college level algebra to be a success in life.


I'm guessing you received the same grace from your English teachers as well.


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## Ellejustus

3thatplay said:


> I'm guessing you received the same grace from your English teachers as well.


Yes and actually so many hear have been kind not to notice or say anything until you did.  I also stuttered really, really bad in school and kids made fun and my test scores put me int the class of failures.  How I made it out I have no idea.....


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## 3thatplay

Ellejustus said:


> Yes and actually so many hear have been kind not to notice or say anything until you did.  I also stuttered really, really bad in school and kids made fun and my test scores put me int the class of failures.  How I made it out I have no idea.....


Not true.  You have already been called out for grammar, spelling and stated that you couldn't care one bit.  I think that you are far smarter than you lead everyone, by your ability to seemingly choose the most incorrect spelling of the words you use.  e.g.  isle versus aisle, hear and here, all of the "there's" and our and are etc.  Plus you state that mathematics are difficult yet you also state that the numbers come to you in your head; able to spell "equivalent" correctly.   It is as if you are some sort of savant "lorem ipsum" generator that almost makes sense.


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## espola

3thatplay said:


> Not true.  You have already been called out for grammar, spelling and stated that you couldn't care one bit.  I think that you are far smarter than you lead everyone, by your ability to seemingly choose the most incorrect spelling of the words you use.  e.g.  isle versus aisle, hear and here, all of the "there's" and our and are etc.  Plus you state that mathematics are difficult yet you also state that the numbers come to you in your head; able to spell "equivalent" correctly.   It is as if you are some sort of savant "lorem ipsum" generator that almost makes sense.


He's the only poster I have on auto-ignore.


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## Ellejustus

3thatplay said:


> Not true.  You have already been called out for grammar, spelling and stated that you couldn't care one bit.  I think that you are far smarter than you lead everyone, by your ability to seemingly choose the most incorrect spelling of the words you use.  e.g.  isle versus aisle, hear and here, all of the "there's" and our and are etc.  Plus you state that mathematics are difficult yet you also state that the numbers come to you in your head; able to spell "equivalent" correctly.   It is as if you are some sort of savant "lorem ipsum" generator that almost makes sense.


OK, I do love math and I'm really good with quick numbers and sales commissions and % of what you get and what I get.  My cut basically.  I just don;t like the kind of math they feed the kids at the schools and use it against some as not being smart or using there brain the right way for success. Anyone who knows me nos I've attacked the way it is taught  and how it hurts some females GPA and causes some kids to quit school all together.  I also really really had a hard time reading and comp. Nouns, verbs, lite or light, right or write, whole or hole and since and sense to name just a few. My fast brain hated trying to sort all that stuff as a young lad.  Teachers would tell me how wrong I was when I was just righting what sounded write.  Its fund and I can type way faster than I used two.  Just type and go from the deep thoughts of my mine.  If I try to write the right way then I lose my train of thought in my head.


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## Ellejustus

espola said:


> He's the only poster I have on auto-ignore.


That is the greatest accomplishment I think I ever caught.  TY and you made my day


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## Ellejustus

What is a genius savant?
“*Savant* syndrome” is the name for a rare, but extraordinary, condition in which someone with *serious mental impairment* (often some form of autism) displays a spectacular “island of *genius*” amidst his overall disability. ... What all *savants* have in common is prodigious, almost *uncanny memory.*

Wow, I learned a new word today and I have memory that is insane.  Why me I would ask myself.  I surely dint ask to be born and brought to this planet at this time but I take my calling as a man should.  Things will get better everyone.  Two sides have to fight it all out to see who is more right.  I have to go to bed now.  Good night friends on the message board.  Espy, Joe, Kicker, Messy, Ricky, Jumbo Jack and all my pals down in the minors at u10. Let's hope for a better tomorrow and sweet dreams and I mean that for all of you.


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## vegasguy

Math is a fundamental or core value and that includes algebra.  Calc and Trig not fundamental but algebra is for sure.  Give me a job any job and I can tell you how math applies daily.    The simple answer is how much am I making vs. how much am I paid (taxes).  But even a receptionist at a dental office uses math daily.


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## dad4

vegasguy said:


> Math is a fundamental or core value and that includes algebra.  Calc and Trig not fundamental but algebra is for sure.  Give me a job any job and I can tell you how math applies daily.    The simple answer is how much am I making vs. how much am I paid (taxes).  But even a receptionist at a dental office uses math daily.


Sort of.

I used to have a bunch of kids in my class who asked the “when will I ever use this” question about algebra.  It was easy to answer when they were undecided about their future.  I could answer it with some variant of “maybe you want to be a veterinarian / biologist / businessman.”

It was harder to justify algebra to the kid who wants to be a car mechanic.  The one who knows every English and metric wrench by sight, and has rebuilt enough transmissions that he knows you don’t use algebra while you’re working on them.

So I told him the truth.   He’d never use algebra while working on cars.  If he ever got rich enough to open his own shop, he’d go back to night school for accounting anyway.   For him, all it did was tell vocational college whether he was the kind of kid who works hard.  

He worked hard and got a B+.  I’m sure he’s a good mechanic.  But I doubt he’s used algebra since he left my class.


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## Copa9

dk_b said:


> Let's say there is no season for a team with a squad of 26 players - 8 frosh, 7 sophs, 6 jrs and 5 srs - and the NCAA permits the seniors to return even if they've already used a red shirt year and let's say 3 of those 5 choose to return and there is less attrition from the underclass players.  Do the math - there just are not as many slots for a recruiting class of 8 players (or 5 or 12).  It's a logjam that would be created so something would need to give.
> 
> As I have written, I hope it does not come to that as I hope there is a season (assuming it can be played safely).
> 
> Not sure the large endowments will matter as this will be a function of NCAA rules and then what a specific athletic department is permitted under its budget. With an academic year (at least the fall term) with fewer students enrolled, I'd expect budget shortfalls to be common and if institutions are dipping into their endowments, I don't imagine that athletic departments will be that high on the list of priorities (even if allowed), and certainly the minor sports will suffer more.


Academic scholarships can be funded by endowments.  Many if not most scholarship awards are a combination of academic and athletic.  Also, by the time the player is a senior, (unless you are at Stanford, USC, UCLA or NC) the fast majority of them are ready to move on to the work force or graduate school.  If they have eligibility remaining they can use that to help them get into a graduate program and play soccer at the new school.


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## Kicker4Life

dad4 said:


> Sort of.
> 
> I used to have a bunch of kids in my class who asked the “when will I ever use this” question about algebra.  It was easy to answer when they were undecided about their future.  I could answer it with some variant of “maybe you want to be a veterinarian / biologist / businessman.”
> 
> It was harder to justify algebra to the kid who wants to be a car mechanic.  The one who knows every English and metric wrench by sight, and has rebuilt enough transmissions that he knows you don’t use algebra while you’re working on them.
> 
> So I told him the truth.   He’d never use algebra while working on cars.  If he ever got rich enough to open his own shop, he’d go back to night school for accounting anyway.   For him, all it did was tell vocational college whether he was the kind of kid who works hard.
> 
> He worked hard and got a B+.  I’m sure he’s a good mechanic.  But I doubt he’s used algebra since he left my class.


If he has to do any fabrication or budgeting at home , he will be using algebra in some form.


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## Ellejustus

vegasguy said:


> Math is a fundamental or core value and that includes algebra.  Calc and Trig not fundamental but algebra is for sure.  Give me a job any job and I can tell you how math applies daily.    The simple answer is how much am I making vs. how much am I paid (taxes).  But even a receptionist at a dental office uses math daily.


Well, you can have it....lol!!  Ok, a little Pre Al can help a little too.  No more SAT is huge.


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## Ellejustus

dad4 said:


> Sort of.
> 
> I used to have a bunch of kids in my class who asked the “when will I ever use this” question about algebra.  It was easy to answer when they were undecided about their future.  I could answer it with some variant of “maybe you want to be a veterinarian / biologist / businessman.”
> 
> It was harder to justify algebra to the kid who wants to be a car mechanic.  The one who knows every English and metric wrench by sight, and has rebuilt enough transmissions that he knows you don’t use algebra while you’re working on them.
> 
> So I told him the truth.   He’d never use algebra while working on cars.  If he ever got rich enough to open his own shop, he’d go back to night school for accounting anyway.   For him, all it did was tell vocational college whether he was the kind of kid who works hard.
> 
> He worked hard and got a B+.  I’m sure he’s a good mechanic.  But I doubt he’s used algebra since he left my class.


Thank you.  Or, he can have his wife handle the books and maybe his son so he can relax and not take his job home to his family.  Too many owners do it all and in todays world it's better to share.  If you want to own it all, then by all means you better get your ass in business school and never get married.


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## dk_b

Copa9 said:


> Academic scholarships can be funded by endowments.  Many if not most scholarship awards are a combination of academic and athletic.  Also, by the time the player is a senior, (unless you are at Stanford, USC, UCLA or NC) the fast majority of them are ready to move on to the work force or graduate school.  If they have eligibility remaining they can use that to help them get into a graduate program and play soccer at the new school.


Right - my point is that it is hard for me to believe that athletic departments are going to go to great lengths, and that the university at large will support such efforts, to use endowed funds in this way. It's not just soccer, it's all sports, so the potential $$$ is not small even if it is compared to a university's endowment.  I think the theory is really sound but, in practice, if the season is bagged and eligibility is extended (like for spring 2020 sports), there will be a train wreck in terms of numbers and we don't really know what will happen.  But to think that there will be little impact on players who have not signed NLIs and are still a year or 3 from proving themselves at the college level strikes me as wishful.  It is what I wish, to be honest, as there are a lot of HS-age players I care about, but it is not what I'd expect to play out.  Hopefully this is a non-issue.


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## mo fields

When are schools back for training?   45 days away from preseason!!!!


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## Ellejustus

dk_b said:


> Right - my point is that it is hard for me to believe that athletic departments are going to go to great lengths, and that the university at large will support such efforts, to use endowed funds in this way. It's not just soccer, it's all sports, so the potential $$$ is not small even if it is compared to a university's endowment.  I think the theory is really sound but, in practice, if the season is bagged and eligibility is extended (like for spring 2020 sports), there will be a train wreck in terms of numbers and we don't really know what will happen.  But to think that there will be little impact on players who have not signed NLIs and are still a year or 3 from proving themselves at the college level strikes me as wishful.  It is what I wish, to be honest, as there are a lot of HS-age players I care about, but it is not what I'd expect to play out.  Hopefully this is a non-issue.


14 athletic scholarships?  What does a athletic scholarship consist of anyways?  What does full mean?  For example, if the player they like is 4.5 gpa and all word human and top top SAT, they might get a academic scholarship plus grants plus this and that.  They might need only a 10% athletic money because their super talented student?  Or, they could be ok student but the bomb soccer player.  No academic but 80% athletic and 20% financial aid=full ride?


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## vegasguy

dad4 said:


> It was harder to justify algebra to the kid who wants to be a car mechanic. The one who knows every English and metric wrench by sight, and has rebuilt enough transmissions that he knows you don’t use algebra while you’re working on them.


I get what you are saying but even a mechanic especially on the older vehicles are using math with timing light or gear ratio or if they are modifying a vehicle their are ratios to be calculated.  If they become a shop owner, there is plenty of math.  My mechanic is a former mechanical engineer.   

I am not great at math but use it daily.  Often not thinking ugghh I got to math this problem.


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## Ellejustus

The problem with math and other subjects in school, they beat up and discourage many folks Vegas guy.  My nephew is a great example.  His brain was a car and he can put anything together.  Math, not really and he was poor in writing.  He was made to feel like a loser so he just went to HS to make his mom happy.  After hs, he went to work for auto shop place.  He learned how to run a shop and later opened his own shop.  He's on fire and was never in debt.


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## vegasguy

Ellejustus said:


> The problem with math and other subjects in school, they beat up and discourage many folks Vegas guy.  My nephew is a great example.  His brain was a car and he can put anything together.  Math, not really and he was poor in writing.  He was made to feel like a loser so he just went to HS to make his mom happy.  After hs, he went to work for auto shop place.  He learned how to run a shop and later opened his own shop.  He's on fire and was never in debt.


But is that a math problem or a teaching problem.  I feel there is a way to teach everything to make it palatable.  Again I get college is not for everyone.


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## Ellejustus

vegasguy said:


> But is that a math problem or a teaching problem.  I feel there is a way to teach everything to make it palatable.  Again I get college is not for everyone.


Let me explain.  The math from the past needs to change imo.  The old way of judging and making fun of people because they suck at math is wrong. Anyway, I love math but hate the requirements and how some teachers make people feel if there weak in that subject.  I hit another touchy subject I see.  I love math


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## vegasguy

Ellejustus said:


> Let me explain.  The math from the past needs to change imo.  The old way of judging and making fun of people because they suck at math is wrong. Anyway, I love math but hate the requirements and how some teachers make people feel if there weak in that subject.  I hit another touchy subject I see.  I love math


Not touchy just realistic and although I am not good at it and my player is definitely not good at it, there is a part of math that still belongs on ACT/SAT. (IMO).  You do not want to go to college do not take the tests.  You want to go to school and not take the test go to a Cal State school (lol)


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## Ellejustus

vegasguy said:


> Not touchy just realistic and although I am not good at it and my player is definitely not good at it, there is a part of math that still belongs on ACT/SAT. (IMO).  You do not want to go to college do not take the tests.  You want to go to school and not take the test go to a Cal State school (lol)


Too many tests and when you see all the cheating, it makes it all the worse.  I'm not saying all cheat, but many do and jump the line.  I would like to see less test and judgement and a place for non math in college to help resolve the stress on the girls.


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## vegasguy

How do you judge admittance for athlete and NARP.  Are the factors the same?   Do athletes get treated differently..  where does the bias stop?


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## Ellejustus

vegasguy said:


> How do you judge admittance for athlete and NARP.  Are the factors the same?   Do athletes get treated differently..  where does the bias stop?


Is that a question for me?


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## vegasguy

Yes.  If not the 4 core classes being judged how do you judge an applicant.


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## Simisoccerfan

mo fields said:


> When are schools back for training?   45 days away from preseason!!!!


Not 100% confirmed yet but hearing reporting date of 7/26 or 7/27.  One week of Covid testing and other physicals.  Independant training that week.   Then practice/training in pods of 8.  Maybe for 1-2 weeks.  Then full team practice.  Training camp in Dorms but solo occupancy.  Other changes in AT and locker rooms to limit occupancy and provide distancing.  Also team is working on a plan to get the international students back into the country.  

From the CDC:

*With specific exceptions, foreign nationals who have been in any of the following countries during the past 14 days may not enter the United States. For a full list of exceptions, please refer to the relevant proclamations in the links below.*


*China*
*Iran*
*European Schengen area*(Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Monaco, San Marino, Vatican City)
*United Kingdom* (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland)
*Republic of Ireland*
*Brazil*


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## gkrent

Ellejustus said:


> *What kind of Math Matters Big Time? * Is their a level we can agree on at least for the average person not going to college or wants to do something in college that only basic math is required?  Not all brains work well in math, you catch my drift?  Just because one can read and write and count to 10 does not make them better then the other kids locked out of the system.  I said this before and I wont say it again.  The kind of basic math I'm promoting is how to save your money, how to protect yourself from scam artists and how to save some more money and balance a check book and work hard saving even more and not go into debt if at all possible.


Even if your kid goes into the trades, such as carpentry or cosmetology, Math skills are still used and the more practice with it the fewer challenges/mistakes a person will need to overcome.


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## Ellejustus

gkrent said:


> Even if your kid goes into the trades, such as carpentry or cosmetology, Math skills are still used and the more practice with it the fewer challenges/mistakes a person will need to overcome.


Find, all you math lovers, you win.  My gosh.  Most girls hate math for obvious reasons.  Keep selling it boys.........Sorry I brought math up.


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## vegasguy

Ellejustus said:


> Find, all you math lovers, you win.  My gosh.  Most girls hate math for obvious reasons.  Keep selling it boys.........Sorry I brought math up.


generalization.


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## Ellejustus

vegasguy said:


> generalization.


Look bro, my wife and I were the coolest youth leaders around back in the day.  15 years of service and really enjoyed it.  Some kids felt they could be honest without getting into trouble with us for having a thought about math courses and how hard they are.  They will tell you all to take math away if they could.  Most, not all hate "math the class."  We need better math classes that teach not to get into debt with student loans if possible, learn not to get cc as freshman on campus, learn how to balance a check book.  Basic life math is a must.


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## TOSDCI

Ellejustus said:


> Find, all you math lovers, you win.  My gosh.  Most girls hate math for obvious reasons.  Keep selling it boys.........Sorry I brought math up.


My youngest DD loves math.  She is planning to be an engineer.  It comes very easily to her.  If your daughter is struggling, try Khan Academy.  It breaks everything down and makes it much easier to understand.  Good luck!


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## gkrent

Ellejustus said:


> Find, all you math lovers, you win.  My gosh.  Most girls hate math for obvious reasons.  Keep selling it boys.........Sorry I brought math up.


Your assumptions about girls and boys is another blind spot.  My daughter is an applied mathematics minor.   She too would recommend Khan academy for any students that may struggle.


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## Ellejustus

gkrent said:


> Your assumptions about girls and boys is another blind spot.  My daughter is an applied mathematics minor.   She too would recommend Khan academy for any students that may struggle.


So sorry.  What % of girls ((Not little Sally looking to go to college because it was a mandate from)) from 14-18 is an applied mathematics minor?  I'm talking all females, not the 1% playing soccer?  You know what, forget it, you win. I never said what I said about math.  I take it all back. I have a new statement on Math.  *Math is very important and I'm truly sorry if I came across wrong.*  All girls truly love math class and can't wait for the next class in the Fall.


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## beachbum

At least one Pac 12 school is reporting 6/29 - 7/5  3 days of quarantine and then they can start their voluntary workouts.  Apparently the Pac 12 has petitioned the NCAA to have 8 hours of coached practices 4 hours with coaches and 4 hours with trainers, haven't heard the outcome of that yet.


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## Dubs

beachbum said:


> At least one Pac 12 school is reporting 6/29 - 7/5  3 days of quarantine and then they can start their voluntary workouts.  Apparently the Pac 12 has petitioned the NCAA to have 8 hours of coached practices 4 hours with coaches and 4 hours with trainers, haven't heard the outcome of that yet.


How do you feel about things right now?  Do you have any level of confidence that the season will start on time?  Obviously they will have a revised schedule but is there a feeling that things are moving forward?  I just worry because of all the spikes happening right now.


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## Simisoccerfan

My dd was told yesterday her report date will be 7/27.  Coaches and school seem upbeat about it happening.  We plan to drive across country so she can have her car at school.  Then I will fly back.  I am not booking that ticket yet though until it gets closer just in case.


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## beachbum

Dubs said:


> How do you feel about things right now?  Do you have any level of confidence that the season will start on time?  Obviously they will have a revised schedule but is there a feeling that things are moving forward?  I just worry because of all the spikes happening right now.


Pretty confident at this point, all her zoom meetings seem to point towards reporting on Sunday.  More than 50% confident about the season right now but who really knows.


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