# Shocker, Legends gets caught cheating at ECNL Play Offs



## Penalty Kicks Stink (Jul 1, 2021)

Amazing how badly some clubs will cheat their own families and players all to win a game.  Not only does Legends use college players in an event meant for players trying to get recruited for college but the parents go along with it.  Not only do they cheat on the biggest stage but even at the younger levels you get parents complaining that coaches bring in ringers from top Legends or outside club teams to take playing time away from those paid on the roster.   

Now you get caught on one of the biggest stages for an organization that just let you become a member for the very first time.  I guess everyone but ECNL knew that this is what you get with Legends.

I feel bad for all those parents cutting checks to an organization that cant win on its merit or coaching










						SCANDAL: Legends FC Gets Disqualified from the ECNL Playoffs | FUT411
					

It's not everyday we see a scandal unfold at a national event.  Imagine our surprise to learn of a disqualification at the ECNL Girls National Playoff...




					fut411.com


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## timbuck (Jul 1, 2021)

If this was done with intent (and it sounds like it was) ECNL needs to drop the hammer.  There are plenty of clubs in SoCal that would sell their first born child to get ECNL status.  Kick them out or put them on double secret probation for a year.


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## girlsrule7 (Jul 2, 2021)

Thats interesting, there was speculation at the GA event that their U17 team pulled in their stronger ECNL -R girls to play in the playoffs.  Not sure it was illegal but that sucks for the girls who played on the GA team all season if they didn't get the chance to play.


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## Soccer (Jul 2, 2021)

I do not see in the rules where using a college player is illegal.  Age appropriate is the term.  Reilyn Turner is rostered to Blues.  Did she play?    Are the girls from Solar playing?  They graduated early and played at Texas this last spring. 

If they rostered this player after May 1, then used her, that could be an issue.

Not defending Legends, I just know College players who have played ECNL in the past.

Back in the day it was extremely common for College Players to come back and play National Cup.


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## espola (Jul 2, 2021)

Soccer said:


> I do not see in the rules where using a college player is illegal.  Age appropriate is the term.  Reilyn Turner is rostered to Blues.  Did she play?    Are the girls from Solar playing?  They graduated early and played at Texas this last spring.
> 
> If they rostered this player after May 1, then used her, that could be an issue.
> 
> ...


Rule 2.12.4









						2020-21 ECNL Competition Rules
					

2020-2021 ECNL COMPETITION RULES                          2020-2021 ECNL COMPETITION RULES The Elite Clubs National League (“ECNL”) is a player development platform for elite  youth soccer players in the United States.  These Rules and Regulations (the “Regulations”) outline the rules fo...




					docs.google.com


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## Soccer (Jul 2, 2021)

espola said:


> Rule 2.12.4
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks, I stopped reading once it got to DP section.

Ok that rule says they can play, but must be a DP player.  Did Legends not make her a DP then.  There used to be a way you had to designate a player as a DP.  Not sure in today’s times.


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## Giesbock (Jul 2, 2021)

girlsrule7 said:


> Thats interesting, there was speculation at the GA event that their U17 team pulled in their stronger ECNL -R girls to play in the playoffs.  Not sure it was illegal but that sucks for the girls who played on the GA team all season if they didn't get the chance to play.


Not surprised to hear that and yes, really too bad for their “regulars “.


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## Giesbock (Jul 2, 2021)

Soccer said:


> thanks, I stopped reading once it got to DP section.
> 
> Ok that rule says they can play, but must be a DP player.  Did Legends not make her a DP then.  There used to be a way you had to designate a player as a DP.  Not sure in today’s times.


All this smacks of doing a bunch of squirming around to stay inside the rules while playing the system for every advantage. I guess that’s the character of the organization.


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## MacDre (Jul 2, 2021)

Giesbock said:


> Not surprised to hear that and yes, really too bad for their “regulars “.


Why would guest players be bad for the regulars?  

If a club coach doesn’t have the confidence in a player to play them in a tournament, it seems unlikely to me that the same coach would give that same player a good recommendation to a college scout.

Maybe it’s a good thing for the regular player, as it signals to the player that they are not valued on the team and they should look for opportunities elsewhere.


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## crush (Jul 2, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Why would guest players be bad for the regulars?
> 
> If a club coach doesn’t have the confidence in a player to play them in a tournament, it seems unlikely to me that the same coach would give that same player a good recommendation to a college scout.
> 
> Maybe it’s a good thing for the regular player, as it signals to the player that they are not valued on the team and they should look for opportunities elsewhere.


I had a dream last night that I got a full ride to Big U in hoops after playing AAU travel ball from the time I was 6 up until 18 years old.  Talk about the travel grind for 12 years.  My Freshman year of college hoops was magical Dre and one & done was it for me based on what all the scouts and agents were saying in my ear.  In my wildest part of the dream, I was sitting around all alone and bored and then my phone rang.  It was my old AAU hoops coach calling to ask me to come back and help his team win it all.  I was shocked but 100% said, "hell no!  Is this a joke coach?  To each his own and I dont think this is cheating.  Weird?  Yes!!!  I think maybe they checked the wrong box.  It's called U19 for a reason........


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## Dubs (Jul 2, 2021)

I'm not really sure I understand why a college player would come back and play in ECNL playoffs... For what exactly?  If you're going to come back and play for in club, it's usually for WPSL.  As it stands, most players in U18/19 are done with their college process and by now are ready to head to their respective schools to move in and start camp or pre-camp.  I'm amazed they have enough numbers for the division at all unless some 2021 girls are still truly trying to get recruited.


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## what-happened (Jul 2, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Why would guest players be bad for the regulars?
> 
> If a club coach doesn’t have the confidence in a player to play them in a tournament, it seems unlikely to me that the same coach would give that same player a good recommendation to a college scout.
> 
> Maybe it’s a good thing for the regular player, as it signals to the player that they are not valued on the team and they should look for opportunities elsewhere.


Sounds like a great club with moral intent. It's good to see honest and open communication between coaches, players, and parents.  

To your point, yes, not playing should be a sign.


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## El Clasico (Jul 2, 2021)

what-happened said:


> Sounds like a great club with moral intent. It's good to see honest and open communication between coaches, players, and parents.
> 
> To your point, yes, not playing should be a sign.


Is this Josh?  Some people can turn anything around and make it appear altruistic.  So legends cheating shows great moral intent?  And by bringing in guest players, or ringers, into this showcase, that signifies to the bench players that they are not valued and should look elsewhere (after, of course, they have paid their fees here) and that represents to you, "honest and open communication between coaches, players, and parents"?

This is some kind of sad joke of a statement right? Otherwise you're just not right in the head and I don't say that to insult you, I'm just letting you know that you need to get some help.

I honestly still believe I am misunderstanding your post.


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## what-happened (Jul 2, 2021)

El Clasico said:


> Is this Josh?  Some people can turn anything around and make it appear altruistic.  So legends cheating shows great moral intent?  And by bringing in guest players, or ringers, into this showcase, that signifies to the bench players that they are not valued and should look elsewhere (after, of course, they have paid their fees here) and that represents to you, "honest and open communication between coaches, players, and parents"?
> 
> This is some kind of sad joke of a statement right? Otherwise you're just not right in the head and I don't say that to insult you, I'm just letting you know that you need to get some help.
> 
> I honestly still believe I am misunderstanding your post.


Don't know who josh is.  Easy with the insult - Obviously sarcasm. I'm sorry you weren't able to detect the sarcasm.

Thanks for your concern about my mental state.


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## MacDre (Jul 2, 2021)

what-happened said:


> Sounds like a great club with moral intent. It's good to see honest and open communication between coaches, players, and parents.
> 
> To your point, yes, not playing should be a sign.


My grandma used to tell me that “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”  Sometimes things don’t work out despite the best of intentions, it doesn’t mean that the organization is shady for not playing a kid that ain’t got it and ain’t gonna get it.

My kid wanted to be good at art.  I enrolled her in an art class and she still sucks despite the teachers best efforts.  Doesn’t make the teacher shady because my kid sucks at art.  Sometimes we have to accept the fact that there are things our kids aren’t good at.


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## what-happened (Jul 2, 2021)

MacDre said:


> My grandma used to tell me that “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”  Sometimes things don’t work out despite the best of intentions, it doesn’t mean that the organization is shady for not playing a kid that ain’t got it and ain’t gonna get it.
> 
> My kid wanted to be good at art.  I enrolled her in an art class and she still sucks despite the teachers best efforts.  Doesn’t make the teacher shady because my kid sucks at art.  Sometimes we have to accept the fact that there are things our kids aren’t good at.


High level youth soccer is crooked in nature.  We all know this, it's right in front of us.  Some choose to ignore it because your kid plays, others want to believe their kid will someday play more.  This is the group that is always exploited and funds the growth/development of others.

Clubs should be having the talent discussion all the time but why would they?  Some are led to believe that little johnny and sally will someday be the player the parents want them to be.  Why turn away the $$$ - that would be a poor business decision. 

How much were you paying the art teacher?  My kids also sucked at art and music.  We pulled the plug early on music.  Instrument rental and private lessons were out of control.


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## MacDre (Jul 2, 2021)

Dubs said:


> I'm not really sure I understand why a college player would come back and play in ECNL playoffs... For what exactly?  If you're going to come back and play for in club, it's usually for WPSL.  As it stands, most players in U18/19 are done with their college process and by now are ready to head to their respective schools to move in and start camp or pre-camp.  I'm amazed they have enough numbers for the division at all unless some 2021 girls are still truly trying to get recruited.


A player at the end of the bench on their college team would be interested to get some minutes.


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## Giesbock (Jul 2, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Why would guest players be bad for the regulars?
> 
> If a club coach doesn’t have the confidence in a player to play them in a tournament, it seems unlikely to me that the same coach would give that same player a good recommendation to a college scout.
> 
> Maybe it’s a good thing for the regular player, as it signals to the player that they are not valued on the team and they should look for opportunities elsewhere.


Fair counterpoints.


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## crush (Jul 2, 2021)

what-happened said:


> Don't know who josh is.  Easy with the insult - Obviously sarcasm. I'm sorry you weren't able to detect the sarcasm.
> 
> Thanks for your concern about my mental state.


Dont feel so bad.  I was called club hopper, moron and damn fool because I use satire when I write....lol


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## full90 (Jul 2, 2021)

So legends can use college players if they are a discovery player?
Do we know if legends did this or used college players without the discovery tag?
Do we know if their composite u18/19 team was short in players and needed extra bodies and college kids were willing to go?

if we don’t know either of these things (if they were in fact “discovery” players and if the roster was short handed) then let’s hold our outrage until we know. One Internet article isn’t enough to light the club on fire.


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## gefelchnik (Jul 2, 2021)

full90 said:


> So legends can use college players if they are a discovery player?
> Do we know if legends did this or used college players without the discovery tag?
> Do we know if their composite u18/19 team was short in players and needed extra bodies and college kids were willing to go?
> 
> if we don’t know either of these things (if they were in fact “discovery” players and if the roster was short handed) then let’s hold our outrage until we know. One Internet article isn’t enough to light the club on fire.


The rules are clearly written, you can take a look at the link:

1) A player from a college roster can play u18/19, as a Discovery Player (up to 4 per team).  They cant have another roster designation.
2) There are NO DPs allowed to play Composite.  There is a good reason for this rule...but wont spend time explaining.  So, no college rostered players can play Composite.

So, either they didn't know the rules (highly doubt this), or just assumed they wouldn't get caught.


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## MacDre (Jul 2, 2021)

gefelchnik said:


> 2) There are NO DPs allowed to play Composite.  There is a good reason for this rule...but wont spend time explaining.  So, no college rostered players can play Composite.


Could you please explain this?  As a parent, I am primarily concerned with development.  Isn’t the whole point of competitive club soccer  as opposed to recreational soccer  exposure to better players?  If so, why all the outrage about a club putting the best players on the field to maximize development?


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## 909 Sheep Dog (Jul 2, 2021)

Well said full90.


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## what-happened (Jul 2, 2021)

MacDre said:


> Could you please explain this?  As a parent, I am primarily concerned with development.  Isn’t the whole point of competitive club soccer  as opposed to recreational soccer  exposure to better players?  If so, why all the outrage about a club putting the best players on the field to maximize development?


I certainly don't have a soft and fuzzy approach to club soccer.  High level club soccer is designed to serve one purpose - play at the next level.

If you DD meets the requirement, participates in meaningful practice, and plays meaningful minutes, then good.  ECNL/GA will serve its purpose.  If you DD is not getting meaningful minutes and you feel practices and development overall is lacking, then you should look somewhere else - another club or another level of play.   If you decide to stay, then it's on you.  A club with available roster spots doesn't mind a paying customer who doesn't play as much as others.  

I think the question is did Legends knowingly violate a rule?  I'm not privy to anything legends but would assume their RL teams were their top teams this year.  I don't know if they had a composite team (don't really completely grasp it, since I have players split between leagues).  I would venture to say there wasn't a composite Legends team since they were an ECRL club, with their 2nd teams in GA.  

Maybe the club misunderstood the rules, an honest mistake - wink  wink.


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## espola (Jul 2, 2021)

full90 said:


> So legends can use college players if they are a discovery player?
> Do we know if legends did this or used college players without the discovery tag?
> Do we know if their composite u18/19 team was short in players and needed extra bodies and college kids were willing to go?
> 
> if we don’t know either of these things (if they were in fact “discovery” players and if the roster was short handed) then let’s hold our outrage until we know. One Internet article isn’t enough to light the club on fire.


I don't understand the reason to have any Discovery Players.


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## justneededaname (Jul 2, 2021)

espola said:


> I don't understand the reason to have any Discovery Players.


I don't understand why it matters if players are in college. For the previous 14 years it did not matter that players were in two different years in school. There were kids in middle school playing with elementary age. Kids in high school playing with middle schoolers. If the kid is age appropriate and an amateur then let them play.


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## MyDaughtersAKeeper (Jul 2, 2021)

According to the ECNL web-site:  
*"ECNL U18/U19 COMPOSITE DIVISION*
The ECNL U18/U19 Composite Division is an optional platform for all ECNL member clubs to participate in, should they choose. This division was created alongside the birth year amendment in the 2017-18 Season to accommodate for the quantity of players only eligible to participate in the oldest age group.  The U18/U19 age group is comprised of *high school juniors and seniors."*

And maybe reaching college is kind of the goal:

*"College Impact*
The ECNL _College Impact_ series catalogs the impact the ECNL has had on college women’s soccer and the various collegiate athletic conferences across the United States. The “ECNL player” has become the epitome of the next generation collegiate soccer player. The ECNL _College Impact_ is measured by the number of ECNL alumni that have moved on to collegiate soccer, and the increase in this number every year since the league’s inception in 2009."

I thought the point of ECNL was to help in college recruitment.  If you are in college, why would you still play in ECNL?  My take is that the club that got caught values winning over showcasing their players in an effort to get them into college.


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## Surf Zombie (Jul 2, 2021)

timbuck said:


> If this was done with intent (and it sounds like it was) ECNL needs to drop the hammer.  There are plenty of clubs in SoCal that would sell their first born child to get ECNL status.  Kick them out or put them on double secret probation for a year.


The game was against FC Stars of MA. FC Stars owner is one of the ECNL board members. Brilliant.


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## GLangevinito (Jul 2, 2021)

Yikes. I hope it was a case of the team manager just not reading the rules thoroughly and there was no intention to cheat.


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## Surf Zombie (Jul 3, 2021)

Anyone get the back story on this yet?


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## GT45 (Jul 3, 2021)

What is crazy is that Legends was playing its top team in the Composite division (because they do not have ECNL status this season) against everyone else's second team. Yet, they still used illegal players.


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## soccermail2020 (Jul 7, 2021)

MacDre said:


> My grandma used to tell me that “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”  Sometimes things don’t work out despite the best of intentions, it doesn’t mean that the organization is shady for not playing a kid that ain’t got it and ain’t gonna get it.
> 
> My kid wanted to be good at art.  I enrolled her in an art class and she still sucks despite the teachers best efforts.  Doesn’t make the teacher shady because my kid sucks at art.  Sometimes we have to accept the fact that there are things our kids aren’t good at.


And also to your point, some clubs are just run by assholes. And having someone from another team, league, club or college play over your kid isn’t always about your kids talent. Sometimes it’s the coach making handshakes under the table and your kid just happens to be in the wrong position at the wrong time. But that also lends itself to how the club is run.


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## RedCard (Jul 7, 2021)

You know the old saying...."It ain't cheating until you get caught". Lots of teams will pad their rosters to look better to get more players to join, which equals more $$$$.
I have 3 examples of teams doing questionable stuff:
#1 - Last weekend of Discovery league, an 05 team had to forfeit it's last two games for using players from other clubs. 
#2 - An 04 team going to Nationals has ECRL players on it that didn't play on that team during the season.
#3 - An 05 ECNL team has a player that also plays semi-pro for a WPSL team.

Now, are these teams actually "breaking the rules"??? Example #1 is definitely yes cause SCDSL changed their 2-2 score to 0-1 and told them not to show up for the last game.
As for #2 and #3, I honestly don't know but if I were on the opposing team, I'll be pissed that the other team may of brought in some ringers. Call me old fashion, but I believe a team going to playoffs shouldn't bring in players from a higher level team (ECNL/RL or GA down to Flight 1) so they have a better chance at winning.
Integrity and fairness have been lost in the world of club soccer which IMO is pretty sad. It's turned into win at any cost (Yeah, I know....big shocker).


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 8, 2021)

RedCard said:


> You know the old saying...."It ain't cheating until you get caught". Lots of teams will pad their rosters to look better to get more players to join, which equals more $$$$.
> I have 3 examples of teams doing questionable stuff:
> #1 - Last weekend of Discovery league, an 05 team had to forfeit it's last two games for using players from other clubs.
> #2 - An 04 team going to Nationals has ECRL players on it that didn't play on that team during the season.
> ...


In your #3, (if it is the player I think it is) that player plays for that team during the season and plays WPSL in the summer.  That is not uncommon.


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## RedCard (Jul 8, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> In your #3, (if it is the player I think it is) that player plays for that team during the season and plays WPSL in the summer.  That is not uncommon.


The seasons over lapped a little but it is what it is.


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## Yousername (Jul 8, 2021)

Kicker4Life said:


> In your #3, (if it is the player I think it is) that player plays for that team during the season and plays WPSL in the summer.  That is not uncommon.


If players are playing in ECNL and are of the eligible age, then playing for WPSL is no different than “playing up.” I know several high schoolers who play WPSL also.


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## RedCard (Jul 8, 2021)

RedCard said:


> The seasons over lapped a little but it is what it is.


I just feel that if one plays semi-pro or college then one should not be able to play in a youth league.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 8, 2021)

Yousername said:


> If players are playing in ECNL and are of the eligible age, then playing for WPSL is no different than “playing up.” I know several high schoolers who play WPSL also.


Yes I know, my point was playing up during the club season.


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## Kicker4Life (Jul 8, 2021)

RedCard said:


> I just feel that if one plays semi-pro or college then one should not be able to play in a youth league.


Then what should a young player such as that do during the rest of the year?


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## outside! (Jul 8, 2021)

RedCard said:


> I just feel that if one plays semi-pro or college then one should not be able to play in a youth league.


As long as they are the correct age and playing in the top division available to them, what does it matter? Top players should want to play against top players.


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